HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: BSS_BRUCEP@vd.seqeb.gov.au (Bruce Powell)
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: Help needed for EXACT File PLACEMENT on VMS.
Date: 6 Apr 92 18:33:37 EST
Organization: South East Queensland Electricity Board

	I have a requirement to create a file(s) which incorporate a list of 
logical blocks (LBN's). (absolute Sectors on DISK).

	The manuals all say this can be done, and give little hints and 
sturcture definitions, but no examples etc.

	Would some kind soul actually have a program or program fragment that
does this, and be willing to share his code?

	The reason for wanting to do this, is one of our disks ( MK388a/WQSMD )
is getting a high read retry rate and the Controller (wqsmd) is not revectoring
the blocks quickly enought. Also the controller requires a write to the detected
blocks to force a re-vector.

Thanking you,	Bruce Powell		email:	bss_brucep@vd.seqeb.gov.au
From: rice@ttd.teradyne.com
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: Re: is there a vms equivalent of unix CRON?
Date: 14 Apr 92 01:39:57 GMT
Article-I.D.: ttd.1992Apr13.204042.1
Organization: Teradyne Inc., Telecommunications Division

In article <1992Apr10.115953.59@indyvax.iupui.edu>, imhw400@indyvax.iupui.edu writes:
> In article <1992Apr9.231258.5644@massey.ac.nz>, news@massey.ac.nz (USENET News System) writes:
>> i was wondering how to do unix CRON type things on VMS. for example, i want
>> to run a command file every week. the only way i see to do this, so far,
>> is to create a batch job which resubmits itself. this seems kind of dangerous,
>> as the batch job could go away without me noticing it.
> 
> We have many such jobs.  We've used them for years.  Yes, occasionally a crash
> will catch one, but you can minimize the chances by having the job resubmit
> itself *first*, and then do time-consuming work.
> 

  We're running something called "chronos", which, I think, came from an
OLD DECUS tape (circa 1982). It's been modified somewhat over the years, but
basicly its two batch jobs, (one is a check job) which build batch jobs based
on a data file. CHRONOS runs every night just after midnight and builds and
submits all jobs for the next 24hours, then re-submits itself to do it again
tomorrow.
  Thus, rather than writing dozens of replicating batch jobs, there are only
two, which handle all of the work and error checking. To add a new job to be
submitted (daily,weekly,monthly, certain day of the week, etc) only requires
a single line to be added to the dat file (which is a text file). This can be
done at any time and the new job will be built/submitted on the next 24 hour
cycle.
  It's all done in dcl and not terribly complex, once you understand what's
going on.


> -- 
> Mark H. Wood, Lead Analyst/Programmer    +1 317 274 0749   [@disclaimer@]
> Internet:  IMHW400@INDYVAX.IUPUI.EDU     BITNET:  IMHW400@INDYVAX
> Celebrate freedom:  read a banned newsgroup.
-- 
   John Rice         K9IJ    |  "Did I say that ?" I must have, but It was
   rice@ttd.teradyne.com     |   MY opinion only, no one else's...Especially
   (708)-940-9000 - (work)   |   Not my Employer's....
   (708)-438-7011 - (home)   |   Purveyor of Miracles,Magic and Slight-of-hand
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
From: zapantis@uvphys.phys.uvic.ca (Nik Zapantis)
Subject: Re: Document interchange MAC - VAX (DECwrite)
Reply-To: zapantis@uvphys.phys.uvic.ca (Nik Zapantis)
Organization: University of Victoria, Physics & Astronomy
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 92 16:13:57 GMT


In article <9204100736.AA03703@ilt.fhg.de>, marten@ilt.fhg.de (Lutz Marten) writes:

|>Hi, who knows how we can interchange Documents between MACintosh MS WORD and VAX/VMS 
|>DECwrite. The connection is not the problem, PathWorks or IBM floppies, but which format? 
|>MS Word for MAC's seems not to support DCA.
|>
|># Lutz Marten Postmaster and general dogsbody        #
|># Fraunhofer-Gesellschaft Institut fuer Lasertechnik #
|># BITNET       : MARTEN@DACTH51, KQ040MA@DACTH11     #
|># InterNet     : marten@ilt.fhg.de                   #
|># HEPNET       : 13533::52714::MARTEN                #
|># Phone        : +49/241/8906-112, -0, office        #
|>
|>
|>

I thought MSWORD did support DCA... Anyway, what we do is to use the ASCII/TEXT export of MSWORD with the  LINEFEED option.  Of course, you will not get any equations or graphics, but the text will come out ok. 
With the new MICROSOFT-DEC alliance in place, we will now see a DDIF converter included with MSWORD for WIndows, but I do not know, if the same can be said for Mac WORD.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
| Nik Zapantis			| zapantis@uvphys     (BITNET)	|
| UVIC,Physics and Astronomy	| 45393::zapantis(HEPnet/SPAN)	|
| Victoria,BC			| zapantis@uvphys.phys.UVic.CA	|
| V8W 3P6			|				|
| (604)721-7729			|				|
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From: tto@aspentec.com
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: RE: interesting fact about vms mail
Date: 7 Apr 92 17:56:58 EST
Distribution: world
Organization: Aspen Technology, Inc. Cambridge, MA.

In article <9204061211.AA08065@sjosu1.sinet.slb.com>, brydon@asl.SINet.SLB.COM (Eschew Obfuscation) writes:

...

> [...] Not sure why you think this is
> "great because..." since you can now use callable mail to do almost anything
> with your mail using a supported interface.

I don't think one can specify the _date_ of a mail using the callable
interface.

Tak.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Tak To
Box 45, MIT Branch PO, Cambridge, Ma 02139.
Phone:  (617) 497-9020 x377
E-mail: tto@aspentec.com
---------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
From: force.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com!marshall (Bob Marshall)
Subject: Re: How to tell DIALUP from DCL?
Reply-To: marshall@force.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com
Organization: LMSC, Sunnyvale, California
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 92 16:37:17 GMT

In article <1992Apr15.125320.4689@csc.canterbury.ac.nz>, cctr127@csc.canterbury.ac.nz (Jason Haar, Network Consultant, CSC) writes:
>
>Can you figure out whether an account has dialup access from the command-line
>(e.g. via lexicals)?

Yes, if you've set up the server port correctly. You didn't mention what 
kind of terminal server it is, but if it's a DECServer (or emulates a
DECServer) you can just do this :

   Local> DEFINE PORT x DIALUP ENABLED

Then the usual LOGINOUT dialup access checks will be used, and you don't have
to do anything special in SYLOGIN. But to answer the question, the way to
determine whether a user is coming in via dialup is :

   $ if f$getjpi("","JOBTYPE") .eq. 4 then ...

>The story is, we want to move our modems off our VAX onto a terminal server -
>but we want to still use the DIALUP access bit in the UAF to decide whether to
>let the user actually log in.

Actually it's not just one bit; it's 48 bits, one bit for each hour of the
day for both primary days and secondary days. So to be correct you'd have
to check what day it is, whether it's a primary day or secondary day for
the user, what hour of the day it is etc, etc. Much easier to use the
technique above.
=============================================================================
Bob Marshall                     \\     
Lockheed Missiles & Space Co.     \\       "In my occupation
Sunnyvale, CA                      \\       There ain't no vacation
marshall@force.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com\\      I'm a professional fool"
"I tell the truth 'cept when I lie"  \\
=============================================================================
From: GUDURU@TSU.BITNET
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: HELP WITH HELP
Date: 7 Apr 92 20:40:51 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Internet
X-Unparsable-Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 13:17 MULTINET_TIMEZONE

hi
I am new to vax/vms system.
would anybody out there please tell me how to add more information
to vms help.
what I want to do is ,add information say about bitnet on vms help.
we are on vms version 5.4-2 on vax 4000.
please e-mail your responses to guduru@tsu.bitnet
thanks in advance.
mahesh
From: winalski@tle.enet.dec.com (Paul S. Winalski)
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: Re: Using non-Decwindows Debugger on Decwindows/Motif Terminal Window
Date: 10 Apr 92 23:54:03 GMT
Reply-To: winalski@tle.enet.dec.com (Paul S. Winalski)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation, Nashua NH


In article <00958DADF6CEE2E0.00002546@rlgsc.com>,
gezelter@rlgsc.com (Robert Gezelter, +1 718 463 1079) writes:
|>  
|>The command shown below:
|> 
|>	$ ASSIGN NONE DBG$PROCESS
|> 
|>will force the VAX/VMS debugger to "normal terminal" mode, even 
|>on a workstation screen. It is extremely useful on machines with 
|>severe resource limits, where the windowed version of the 
|>debugger is unbearably slow. Warning, I believe that this is 
|>"officially" an unsupported option.

Yes, that command will force use of the character-cell debug interface, but
it will also mean that the debugger runs in one-process mode, that is, the
debugger and the program being debugged will share the same process address
space.  This may be a problem if you are trying to track down a bug that is
data-dependent and behaves differently depending on positions of code or
data in memory, or on the contents of the stack.  The worst case of these
"Heisenberg Effects" is where the program works just fine when run with the
debugger but fails when run /NODEBUG.  In the default, two-process mode,
VAX DEBUG runs in its own process except for a very small kernel (which does
things such as the actual setting of breakpoints, receipt of exceptions,
etc. where you have to be in the context of the process being debugged).  The
bulk of the debugger is out of the way and the result is an environment
far closer to running the program /NODEBUG.

The officially supported way to turn off the DECwindows debug mode is the
DCL command:

	$ DEFINE DBG$DECW$DISPLAY " "

that is, assigning logical name DBG$DECW$DISPLAY the value of a single
blank character.

--PSW
From: william@pvcs.pvamu.edu (Devine, William Charles)
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: uudecode for vms
Keywords: uudecode vms
Date: 9 Apr 92 03:57:00 GMT
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41


  Can someone point me to a site where i can get a uudecoder for vms?
i have one for my apple II and macintosh but i need one for the vax.
Thanx for your help in advance...Oh...Please E-mail only...I don't get
a chance to read this group very often.
Thanx
                                 Whiz Kid
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
william@pvcs.pvamu.edu     --------       devine@riphys.rice.edu
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
From: music@reg.triumf.ca (FRED W. BACH)
Subject: Re: Debugger problem, VMS 5.5, VWS4.3 & DECwindows/Motif
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Keywords: SPR, DEBUG 
Organization: TRIUMF: Tri-University Meson Facility
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 21:32:00 GMT

In article <35042@nntpd.lkg.dec.com>, jnelson@gauche.zko.dec.com (Jeff E. Nelson) writes...
> 
>In article <56998@cup.portal.com>, Chris_F_Chiesa@cup.portal.com writes:
>|>Oh, goodie, a Debugger developer at LAST!  I've only been trying to get
>|>YOUR ear for....

  [stuff deleted]

>|>I'd like the debugger to interpret the symbol "mystring," when issued in
>|>a command (e.g. EVAL/ADDRESS MYSTRING; SHOW SYM/ADDR MYSTRING; EXAM/QUAD
>|>MYSTRING; etc.), as the address of the DESCRIPTOR, which is what the symbol
>|>actually defines in terms of memory addresses.
> 
>The debugger gets its information about symbols in your program from the
>compiler (in this case, the assembler). This information includes the symbol
>name, the symbol type and the symbol address. The information is recorded in
>a structure called the Debug Symbol Table (DST). Thus, the debugger's knowledge
>about the symbols in your program is only as good as the information that is
>passed along to it by the compiler (assembler).
> 
>In any case, I tried your example on VMS V5.4 using MACRO32 with the following
>image identification:
> 
  [more stuff deleted]

>Thanks for bringing the problem to our attention. I'm happy to report
>that it is fixed.
> 
>-Jeff E. Nelson
>-Digital Equipment Corporation

  WELL WELL WELL !!!!  Does this prove my earlier point in a private
  communication to DEC that comp.os.vms should be a prime source of
  software trouble reporting, or what? !!!  Do people have problems with
  normal channels, or what? !!!  Sometimes it's good for the users to
  talk straight to the developers without going through multi levels
  on inter- or intra- company bureaucracy!

  Nice goin' guys!


    Fred W. Bach                             Internet: music@erich.triumf.ca
    Operations group,                        Voice:  604-222-1047 loc 278/419
    TRIUMF (TRi-University Meson Facility)   FAX:    604-222-1074
    4004 WESBROOK MALL, UBC CAMPUS
    University of British Columbia,
    Vancouver, B.C., CANADA   V6T 2A3

  Disclaimer:

     These are my opinions, based on my experience, and in NO way
     necessarily reflect the views of my employer or fellow employees.
     My opinions should only get you to read and ask questions.

        ** I'm just a humble programmer working at my terminal. **
Xref: sparky comp.os.vms:8399 comp.sys.dec:2583
From: terry@spcvxb.spc.edu (Terry Kennedy, Operations Mgr.)
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms,comp.sys.dec
Subject: Re: CONDIST discrepencies in media!
Date: 15 Apr 92 22:02:30 GMT
Organization: St. Peter's College, US

In article <1992Apr15.113127.613@fps.mcw.edu>, brodie@fps.mcw.edu writes:
> Well, then it's STILL a gripe.  Why haven't the TSM folks told the
> MCC folks that TSM has been updated?   Jeeeez.

  They probably did, but:

  1) MCC used the current version of TSM at the time MCC started work on
     their new version, and changing in midstream would be bad, and

  2) Assuming MCC uses callable TSM, they'd have to certify the new version
     of TSM.

  Of course, one would hope that different groups within DEC would be able to
communicate well enough that the political aspects of this would be a non-
issue, but no such luck.

	Terry Kennedy		Operations Manager, Academic Computing
	terry@spcvxa.bitnet	St. Peter's College, Jersey City, NJ USA
	terry@spcvxa.spc.edu	+1 201 915 9381
From: richard@npri6.npri.com (Richard Head)
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: How to determine if a magazine is worth reading
Summary: How to determine if a magazine is worth reading
Date: 15 Apr 92 16:02:27 GMT
Organization: NPRI, Alexandria VA


If you're like me (and if you are, seek professional help!), you probably
receive at least 6 computer industry mags a month.  Being limited for
time, I have found 2 excellent litmus tests to see if the magazine is
worth reading:

	1. Does the magazine use "MicroVUPs" to compare performance
	   between VAXes when all other trade publications use either
	   VUPs or SPECmarks?  If so, don't even bother reading it.
	   There's no point wasting time converting this stupid scale
	   into VUPs or SPECmarks.

	2. Did the magazine give the DECserver 90L a "Target Award"?
	   If so, consider everything else in the magazine suspect,
	   because the DECserver 90L was a product with so many 
	   deficiencies, it has already been replaced outright with
	   the DECserver 90L+ less than a year after it was introduced.


Disclaimer:  These opinions are my own, and do not necessarily reflect
those of my employer.
-- 
richard@npri6.npri.com  <Richard Head>
I've fallen and I can't reach my beer!
From: mandel@vax.anes.tulane.edu (Jeff E Mandel)
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: Problem with Rdb/CDD Plus and view creation
Date: 9 Apr 92 22:36:19 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.1992Apr9.223619.21917
Organization: Tulane University School of Medicine
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-8803]: mandel.anes.tulane.edu

I have developed a problem with the Rdb database I'm building. Abruptly
yesterday, it stopped letting me create views. Even the simplest attempt fails:

SQL> create view test as select * from phone_calls;  [phone_calls is a valid
table name]
%CDD-E-INV_VAL_EXP, value expression contained an operator not valid in Rdb/VMS

I ran the CDD verify utility on the path, and everything came up OK. I'm going
to run rmu/verify/all tonight, because I have no clue as to what is going on
here.

Thanks in advance,

Jeff E Mandel MD MS
Associate Professor of Anesthesiology
Tulane University School of Medicine
New Orleans, LA

mandel@vax.anes.tulane.edu
From: terry@spcvxb.spc.edu (Terry Kennedy, Operations Mgr.)
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: Re: UCX 1.3/VMS 5.5 quota problem?
Date: 8 Apr 92 11:44:49 GMT
Organization: St. Peter's College, US

In article <7APR199215020732@mivax.mc.duke.edu>, mark@mivax.mc.duke.edu (MARK) writes:
> I am now seeing the following message on the operator's console when a 
> network user attempts to login to the VAX using TELNET:
> 
> Message from user INTERnet on VAX
> INTERnet ACP Remote TTY Request Aborted Status = "SYSTEM-F_EXQUOTA"
> 
> This behavior seems to occur after 6 or 8 other users have successfully 
> TELNETed to this VAX.

  You might want to look at the following files and comments:

SYS$MANAGER:UCX$INET_STARTUP.COM

$ !	Check for user-supplied defaults.
$ !
$ ! The value for BUFFER_LIMIT should exceed:
$ !
$ !	   Maximum Number of incoming TELNET connections * 5000 +
$ !	+  Maximum Number of incoming RLOGIN connections * 5000 +
$ !     +  Number of interfaces * (      ( 8 * LRPSIZE) for IP
$ !			            + 2 * ( 8 * LRPSIZE) for Trailer
$ !			            +     ( 4 * LRPSIZE) for ARP )

SYS$MANAGER:UCX$REMOTE_TTY_STARTUP.COM

$! Before activating the INTERnet Remote Terminal Services and INTERnet you 
$! should make sure that:
$!
$!	1. the minimum number of INTERnet buffer was increased to provide
$! 		efficient memory allocation for TELNET and INTERnet.
$!
$! Add or edit in SYS$MANAGER:UCX$INET_SET_INTERFACES.COM
$! the command:
$!
$! $ SET COMMUNIC/SMALL_BUFFERS=(MIN=60)/LARGE_BUFFERS=(MIN=30)
$!
$!	2. the maximum number of sockets is increased
$!
$! $ SET COMMUNIC/DEVICE_SOCKET=50
$!

[This comment continues for about 60 more lines, all of which you should look
at on your system for more details].

	Terry Kennedy		Operations Manager, Academic Computing
	terry@spcvxa.bitnet	St. Peter's College, Jersey City, NJ USA
	terry@spcvxa.spc.edu	+1 201 915 9381
From: bruce@ais.com
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: Re: vms scripts?
Date: 10 Apr 92 09:57:56 GMT
Organization: Applied Information Systems, Chapel Hill, NC

In article <2297@news.duke.edu>, braun@phy.duke.edu (Richard Braun) writes:
> Can anybody help with a problem I have?
> At the lab I work at we use a microvax 3200 for data acquisition
> and we would like to have a script of all screen input/output.
> In the past this was done by running everything from a DECwriter
> terminal; which made nice big piles of paper.  It would be better
> just to write it all to a file (which would make searches easier
> and take up less room.)  However the only option I have found so
> far is SET HOST/LOG which doesn't quite cut it since to stop the
> script file and look at it I would have to kill all my DAQ 
> subprocesses.
> 
> I have run out of help from the local VAXperts, so if anyone knows
> of such a utility...  I think that the UNIX 'script' command does
> exactly what I have outlined; is there a VMS analog?

I don't know offhand if Kermit's LOG SESSION command will allow
you to do this or not - I'm not in a good position to try it out
at the moment (you can definitely read the file after breaking
out to the Kermit prompt but I'm not sure if you can read it while
Kermit is in its CONNECTED state).  You might give that a try.

In any event, this is something where it isn't that difficult to
'roll-your-own'.  All you have to do is to do an RMS $FLUSH from
time to time (like after each line of output or after each 'logical'
event on the device or, if it generates too many for that to be
practical, after every n events.  If it worked on a DECwriter it's
probably not generating all that many events).  You'd also want to
open the file with the appropriate sharing bits set so that other
programs can read the file while you write it.  The details would
depend on what language you use to write the program, but this isn't
difficult for most VMS languages ...

Bruce C. Wright
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
From: frandsen@jrfvax.enet.dec.com (John R. Frandsen)
Subject: Re: uudecode for vms
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: 12 APR 92 23:08:58    


In article <1992Apr9.081011.1271@wkuvx1.bitnet>, goathunter@wkuvx1.bitnet writes...
>In article <8APR199222572183@zeus.tamu.edu>, william@pvcs.pvamu.edu (Devine, William Charles) writes:
>> 
>>   Can someone point me to a site where i can get a uudecoder for vms?
>> i have one for my apple II and macintosh but i need one for the vax.
>> Thanx for your help in advance...Oh...Please E-mail only...I don't get
>> a chance to read this group very often.
> 

Stuff deleted...(to save net bandwith)

And if you have V5.5 and either ConDist or a couple hundred bucks, you can
install VMS POSIX(POSIX license is included with V5.5).  I use the uudecode
under POSIX all the time and haven't ran into a "snag" yet...

--
John Frandsen				DEC Software Specialist
Domain:  frandsen@jrfvax.enet.dec.com
Ding:  (407) 676-7400
Options are my own...
From: DENIS@zis.ziff.com (Denis Haskin)
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: Re: changing VTE window title and icon name on VT1200
Date: 10 Apr 92 14:11:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Internet

> The operators here don't like using DECwindows on their VT1200's, so they
> use the regular "LAT Terminal Window" to login to the VAX.
> 
> Is it possible to change the window and icon titles on these connections like
> you can with DECwindows, without going through the Customize window?
> 
> -Dan Wing, DWING@UH01.Colorado.EDU  (or WING_D@UCOLMCC.BITNET)
>  Systems Programmer, University Hospital, Denver

I don't believe it's possible to do that.  I used to use a VT1200 and inquired
of several people within Digital how to do it and the answer was "you can't".

What version of the Terminal Manager are these workstations running?  Mine was
running something like X1.9 or some such thing; even though that's doesn't look
like a standard "released software version number" for Digital, that was
apparently the most current version at the time.  Maybe a newer version
supports what you want?

One alternative (albeit a cumbersome one): if it's the Session Manager they
don't want to run, they don't need to.  You could set up their login procedure
such that when they log in via a VTE window you could start up a DECterm with
the display pointing to their VT1200, then kill off the VTE process.  It would
be sort of weird but then the DECterm could have its title and icon names set
by the host.

dwh
From: marten@ILT.FHG.DE (Lutz Marten)
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: VAXstation 4000 Modell 90 ??
Date: 6 Apr 92 08:56:09 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Internet

Hello,
does anyone have further information about this box ? Should be shipped in 
summer.
-Lutz

# Lutz Marten Postmaster ( and general dogsbody )    #
# Fraunhofer-Gesellschaft Institut fuer Lasertechnik #
# InterNet     : marten@ilt.fhg.de                   #
#                marten@llt.rwth-aachen.de           #
# P.S.I.       : PSI%45050212501::MARTEN             #


Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
From: plante@camins.camosun.bc.ca (Mike Plante)
Subject: Re: cmu/tek?y
Organization: Camosun College
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 22:59:07 GMT

In article <1992Apr9.173608.3505@titan.uucp>, rrebello@titan.uucp (Rod Rebello -- CAD Development) writes:

> I've read postings that mention a tcp package called cmu/tek.  Is this
> a commercial or freeware package?  Where could I get a copy or more
> information about it?
> 

Contact: Eileen Bullister  (412) 268-5896  TCPIP+@ANDREW.CMU.EDU
         UCC 102
         4910 Forbes Avenue
         Pittsburgh, PA 15213-3890

This information valid as of V6.6, July 1991


Mike Plante        plante@Camosun.BC.CA
Newsgroups: comp.windows.xcomp.sys.dec,comp.os.vms