From: evan@telly.on.ca (Evan Leibovitch)
Subject: Re: Americans on English schools in Quebec (Was: Quebec)
Organization: Somewhere just far enough out of Toronto
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 18:09:17 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.101432.5291@spxtech.qc.ca>
	steven@spxtech.qc.ca (Steve Potter) writes:

>From article <1992Nov14.201820.20492@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu>,
	by mousseau@paun02.pa.msu.edu (Normand Mousseau):

>> |> Haven't you realized by now that Quebecois have taken the lazy way out
>> |> of their cultural dillemas? It's far easier to repress English than to
>> |> encourage French, it's cheaper for the provincial government, and it
>> |> has the (unspoken but very real) aspect of revenge.

>> 	Je ne crois pas que les quebecois aient pris la voie de la facilite. 
>> l'Office de la langue francaise a fait, par exemple, un excellent travail
>> dans la recherche et la promotion d'expressions francaises a utiliser au lieu
>> d'anglicismes.

>They also have officials dragging businesses through the courts for not
>obeying notices to tear down their "offensive" English commercial signs.
>[...]

I guess I should be more precise. I have no doubt that repressing
English requires as much (and maybe more) physical effort as encouraging
French. But I continue to believe that the choice of the Quebec
government and its agencies to repress English is *intellectually* lazy
compared to the creativity required to use these same resources to
encourage the use of French.

It is easy to identify those high-profile English elements of Quebec
society that can be targets for supression and (in some cases) eradication.
Place names, English schools for immigrants, commercial signs, and so on.

Coming up with incentives to use French, other than restrictions on
English, requires not just money and people, but imagination. And in the
absence of any such imagination, it's easier (to the policy makers) to
just repress the English.

>> Le cinema,
>> la litterature ainsi que les spectacles quebecois sont d'un calibre
>> international et sont soutenus, en partie, par le gouvernement du Quebec.
>> La comparaison entre la vigueur des industries culturelle quebecoises
>> et celles du Canada anglais ressort vivemement en faveur du Quebec.
>> Ou est donc la paresse proclamee ci-haut ?

First, I wouldn't give the Quebec government any more credit for encouraging
its cultural community than I'd give the federal government.

Second, the vitality of Quebec culture (which I don't question) has
existed long before all these laws were brought in to put down les maudits.

Third, much of the best of English Canadian cultural talent has moved to
Hollywood, to play to a global audience rather than just a local one (as have
English-language artists from all over the world). Quebec artists aren't
so mobile. So make all the arrogant comparisons you want, it's apples and
oranges.

Fourth, you probably don't see "la vigeur" of the local community-based
cultural "industries" in CHQ, which aren't as large as their Quebec
counterparts, but just as active, and just as vibrant. Problem is, they
don't reflect any monolithic "english canadian" culture, (because there
isn't one), so they usually don't show up on the mass media. That doesn't
make them unworthy, though I don't particularly care whether they meet your
standards of comparison.

Fifth, what does this have to do with the intellectual laziness of the
government, in its own (lack of) effort to encourage the use of French?

>There are some very positive measures that could be taken to encourage and
>develop the use of French in Quebec WITHOUT resorting to repressive and
>unacceptable violations of civil liberties and human rights and freedoms.
>
>Quebec uses both types of tools.

The choice of the carrot or the stick is always there. Since Quebec's
government does not have the leadership or ingenuity to produce carrots,
it has too easily resorted to the stick.

>To suggest that the attraction of English for people coming to this province
>is a threat to the French language and culture in Quebec, however, is a myth!

But keeping this myth (among others) alive is vital to Quebec society,
because without them, Quebecois could not warp logic to justify its
present repression.

>> Le Canada anglais doit en savoir quelque chose...  Aussi,
>> les mesure incitatrices ne sont malheureusement pas suffisante pour 
>> garantir l'integration des immigrants.

Why is it seen as an imperative that immigrants must adopt French as
their second (or first) language? if they can speak enough French for
day-to-day conversation and commerce, why is it your (or the government's)
concern which primary language they choose for their education?
Especially if the facilities already exist?

If you want immigrants to embrace your culture, you must give better
reasons than merely placing restrictions on the competiton. As George
Bush has found out, negative campaigning will only take you so far...

Perhaps if Quebec society was seen as broadening the horizons of
immigrants rather than constricting them, they would naturally choose
French as their language of education, and you wouldn't need the laws.
But to develop such a program and campaign requires leadership, it
requires initiative, and it requires creativity. All is lacking in
Quebec's politics, which is why the easier policy of restricting English
is used: It's simply more convenient.

>Please quote figures and source - I think you have been misinformed!

Even if he isn't, is no excuse.

>>  Il faut faire clairement comprendre
>> que le francais est necessaire pour survivre et s'epanouir au Quebec.

>Then one would be stupid not to have one's children learn French.

Requiring every school in the province, private and public, to teach a
certain level of proficiency in French, would not be criticized by anyone.
That isn't the point here. The present laws go beyond requiring every
Quebec child to have a proficiency in French, they require immigrants to
identify with one cultural group over another. By force.

>> Et ceux qui se rappellent l'humiliation subie alors
>> ne peuvent pas l'oublier si facilement.

Nobody's expecting you to forget it. But that's a far cry from passing
laws whuch in effect, institutionalize the humiliation in the opposite
direction. If anything, the events of the past should have taught the
*evils* of repressing down a language which appears as a threat.

>> De plus, il me faut revenir sur la
>> situation des minorites francophones hors-Quebec.

Why not? Changing the subject is a convenient way to avoid a direct
criticism...

>> Or, leur
>> situation est autrement plus catastrophique que celle de la minorite anglaise
>> Quebec.

The situation for minority official-language education has been improving
outside Quebec, deteriorating inside. The "catastrophe" is fast becoming
another myth, also useful for Quebecois to justify the repression of
English. If nothing else, pointing to problems outside Quebec makes for
a convenient distraction away from events inside Quebec.

>> Pour revenir a l'esprit de revanche, je crois qu'il existe
>> sous une certaine forme et ne pourra disparaitre qu'avec le temps. 
>> Mais il n'est pas la source des programmes de protection du francais mis en
>> place dans les dernieres annees. 

Maybe if you tell yourself this lie enough times, you'll start believing
it too.

>> |> While languages from Bengali to Yiddish to Mandarin to Czech flourish in
>> |> Canada merely because of the will of those who speak it, it is ironic that
>> |> French in Quebec can seemingly survive only by repressing other languages.

>> Je crois, mon cher Evan, que c'est exagerer un peu que de dire que le
>> Bengali fleuri au Canada.

I humbly invite to to one of the schools held by the Bengali community
here in Brampton, Ontario. They share space in the same school used by
the local Jewish and Muslim communities, in programmes encouraged across
Ontario by the province's Heritage Language programme. The proncipals
and teachers of these schools are either volunteers or given honoraria,
and most of the expenses are paid for by the communities themselves.

I can't speak for the country, but I can certainly attest that the
Bengali, Arabic, Hebrew and other languages are flourishing within their
local communities. Enrolment in these schools has *exceeded* the
immigration from these communities. And they run mainly on little more
than the sweat and determination of these communities to continue their
cultures to the next generation.

Those in charge of preserving Quebec culture could have much to learn
from these grass-root communities, who have learned long ago that the
members of a cultural community are ultimately responsible for their
culture's continuing vitality. They don't have the ability to repress
other languages, so they *must* learn how to make their own attractive.

>> Quand a-t'on vu un roman canadien publie en Bengali ?

Ethnic culture created in Canada certainly does exist. And yes, I've seen
it myself. It just doesn't circulate much outside the community. Smaller
communities like the Bengalis may have the resources or numbers
necessary to publish books, but I've seen them do local theatre.

These small ethnic groups don't have the history, the money, the size
or political influence of the English and French. But they beat both
in terms of spirit, and making the most of a minimum of resources.

>> Il serait plus juste de dire que ces langues survivent dans leur
>> communaute ethnique mais ne servent plus, malheureusement, a etendre
>> et developper la culture qu'elles supportent.

No, it isn't fair to say that. I have participated in a number of events
in my own ethnic group, which have served to expose the community at
large to our language and culture. 

>> Il m'est egalement impossible d'accepter les mots "repression" et "laziness".
>
>"repression" is certainly appropriate.
>
>"laziness" is not, IMHO.

On a day-to-day basis, I agree. But I still maintain that the *policy*
of repressing English is lazier and more convenient than developing an
alternate plan that would demonstrate the appeal of French without
restricting English.

>> N'oublie pas que le Quebec est tout pres d'un centre d'attraction culturel
>> international:

I see; you've been to Toronto's Caravan festival too? ;-)

>> les Etats-Unis et que l'anglais, comme langue internationale,
>> est aussi extremement attrayant.

The French in Quebec, in knowing the pressures they face as a cultural
minority in a sea of English, must certainly see the same pressures
faced by the English minority in Quebec. Yet the compassion is not there.
Nothing has been learned. The oppressed have become the oppressors.
Congratulations.

>> Les mesures de protection et de promotion
>> du francais doivent donc se faire sur deux plans: revalorisation d'une
>> culture quebecoise et protection du francais.

A culture that is truly vibrant and maintained by its people does not need
protection. Just ask the Jews. Many cultures around the world have lived
for centuries despite opression (and sometimes fear of death,) for no
other reason than because of their heart and soul.

A culture that is in danger of not being maintained by its own people
has serious problems, that will not go away merely by wiping out the
perceived competition.

-- 
 Evan Leibovitch, Sound Software Ltd., located in beautiful Brampton, Ontario
         evan@telly.on.ca / uunet!utzoo!telly!evan / (416) 452-0504
         "IBM's three letters are probably EBCDIC for CYA" - Nik H.
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