HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tffreeba@indyvax.iupui.edu
Subject: Re: zeta reticuli
Organization: Indiana University
Date: 27 Jul 92 21:50:24 -0500

In article <1992Jul25.004507.1@indyvax.iupui.edu>, tffreeba@indyvax.iupui.edu writes:
> In article <7697@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU>, mitch@seashell.seas.ucla.edu (Robert R. Mitchell (SEAS admin)) writes:
>> In article <1992Jul22.213112.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> tffreeba@indyvax.iupui.edu writes:
>>>To heck with how the Pleiadians ships work or how fast they go. HOW DID
>>>THEY EVOLVE SO DARN FAST?  The Pleiades are bright young stars still
>>>within their nebular cocoon.  They are along the order of millions of
>>>years old.  It took life on Earth more than 4 billion years to evolve
>>>to the point where it could walk upright, talk, and dream silly dreams.
>>>Are the Pleidians child prodigies?  Btw the first prokaryotes didn't
>>>evolve here until a billion years or so after the formation of Earth.
>>>Thomas Freebairn
>> 
>> I think the New Age Crystalbabble party line is that the 
>> Pleiadians were seeded by an elder race; they did not originally
>> evolve in what is now their home system.  
> 

>  Yes?
Okay, okay.  I was sleepy and being a smartass when I wrote this.  The "yes"
was because it seemed so natural that the true believers would come up with
such an answer.  It smacks of scientific creationism.

> 
>>As for the Pleiades,
>> how far away are they?  You would want to add their distance to
>> their apparent age (as viewed from Earth) to get the actual age,
>> right?  
> 
> No.
"No" because, as others have pointed out, the Pleiades are close enough
that adding light travel time would be negligable in an evolutionary
context.
>  
>> Also, if evolution is driven in part by genetic mutation caused
>> by stellar radiation, can we expect it to "happen faster" in
>> binary or trinary star systems?  
> 
> Yes and no.
"Yes and no" because while evolution may be somewhat accellerated in
such circumstances there are also problems with getting life started
at all in multiple systems.  There was a good article in Astronomy
magazine sometime in the last year on this subject.  It had to do
with the likelyhood of life in the alpha centauri system.  If anybody
is too lazy to look it up themselves, e-mail me and I will slog through
my old issues and find out which one it is in.  (See other INDYVAX posting
on zeta reticuli for other good reasons no.)
>  
>> Have I convinced everyone that a liberal arts education
>> is truly worthless? :-)> 
> 
> Maybe.
Total smartass stuff here.  I can't talk, I have the same sort of education
(but then again, I _am_ pretty sure mine is worthless.)  Sorry for not
being more forthcoming.  No dog intended.
>  
> Thomas Freebairn
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
From: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick)
Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterr
Reply-To: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 07:19:10 GMT

In article <62660@cup.portal.com>, thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes:
>It seems to me that a "mass detector" would be required.  Such a detector
>"should" be able to sense matter.  Whether one would have the compute power
>to resolve individual objects based on the massive (no pun! :-) sensory input
>is another matter!
>
>Are not the effects of mass (and therefore gravity) instantaneously permeated
>thoughout the (known) universe?  Or hasn't this issue been resolved?  I'm not
>a physicist, so consider this as lay speculation/conjecture; I visit SLAC and
>other such places, and I'm in awe of the experiments they conduct.

Current theory says that gravitational waves do NOT travel instantaneously. 
If they DID travel instantaneously, there'd be no possibility of LIGO (Laser
Interferometry Gravitational Observatory?) working.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL

Disclaimer:  Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS.  That's what I get paid for.  My
understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below).  So
unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my
organization responsible for it.  If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to
hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it.
From: mcgrew@dropout.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Why America ?
Date: 29 Jul 92 18:48:36 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

>>achaplin@axion.bt.co.uk (Anthony Chaplin) writes:
>>
>>I have a question for all you Phoenix Project fans out there
>>
>>	Why America, why not the old Soviet Union ?

>alanj@dadd.ti.com (Alan Jones,AMJ1,)
>Good point.  In fact, why not Antartica, northern Canada, or the
>middle of an ocean?  The only reasons I can think of would be:
>
>  a.  They are working with Americans which require access to the base.
>  b.  Their work is in that area ...and fuel requirements for
>      transits to/from the more remote locations is prohibitive.
>  c.  Their work is in that area, and transits to/from more remote locations
>      would increase the probability of detection.

... It depends on what you may think of as the history(s) of
alien/human contact.

  *  If you're a they've-always-been-here person, then clearly the
	presence of a base in the continental US would be by pure
	chance.  (And if the aliens were here to watch humans, the
	US would be a lousy place to look until quite recently.)

  *  If you're a they-arrived-in-1964 person, then the 'selection' of
	the US is due simply because they were contacting humans
	in the US -- any cooperative ventures (regardless of "deeper
	motives", whatever they might be) would require some sort of
	joint-run installation on earth, inside the US.  

   * If you're a since-WWII type, then the 'selection' of the US would
	have been due to the technological superiority (read "we got
	the bomb, we stole the rockets"), and again we're back to
	a joint-run installation, again inside the US (from a US
	point of view, to "keep an eye on" and control whatever
	products came from such research.)

   * If you're a steal-humans/zombie 'fan', or cattle-mutilation 'fan',
	or indeed a no-direct-contact 'fan', then things get a little
	more difficult, since quick communication (phone, radio, etc.)
	in the industrialized portions of the planet make the
	possibility of events "getting out" much more likely --
	keeping things secret for many years is no guarantee that is
	will be	secret tomorrow; the risk is too high.  If a base is
	required at all, it'd be placed in a remote area, under the
	sea, or entirely off-planet.  (On the other hand, if the
	aliens were here for a long time, the US would classify for
	most of planet-time as fairly deserted....  what is the sound
	of one hand clapping... it goes around and around and it comes
	out here.  This stuff gets really complicated, ya know?)
	

Charles
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Fortify
From: Robert_Sutton@kcbbs.gen.nz (Robert Sutton)
Date: 29 Jul 92 09:10:41 GMT
Organization: Kappa Crucis Unix BBS, Auckland, New Zealand

mathew@mantis.co.uk(mathew) 27 Jul 92 12:27:42 types-
>So you'd get people asking what Forteana are & who Charles Fort was.

I,ve long wondered is he from where the word "forte " comes from?.

*************************                                          
ARE ETOI SPACESHIPS SHY
OR ARE THEY JUST WAITING
TO SEAL THE ROYALTY DEAL?
*************************
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 92 07:17:26 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world

----earth lines that cross over in a grid pattern around the earth's 
surface. The Star Command has been monitoring these particular
configurations for thousands of years and it is now that they are starting
to  infuse, meaning to {bring in} higher levels of healing energy. So
they are combining both a vibratory quality of energy, a holographic
quality of energy and specific light quality of energy. By light I mean
specific colors of light. They are infusing those at the intersection
points of these ley lines. End of Part 2.
John Winston.
From: wilbur@shrimp.cps.msu.edu (Brick Wilbur)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: John_-_Winston Poll
Keywords: Get a clue numb----.
Date: 29 Jul 92 03:29:15 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University

In article <1992Jul27.171026.13467@odin.corp.sgi.com>, rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) writes:
|> Hello any & everybody,
|> 
|> Mabye John will get the MESSAGE this way?!?! All those in favor of dear old
|> John_-_Winston sending e-mail instead of posting his responses to the world
|> at large , please post a RE: to this message to let the post happy
|> bandwidth burner
|> know we are all growing weary of his blatent disregard for information
|> dissemination in an organized & efficient manner.The next step of course
|> would be to contact the NETWORK POLICE to give him a keyboard enema.
|> 
|> The choices are:
|> 
|> yes [X] John,please refrain from posting what should be email responses to
|> this newsgroup.
|> 
|> no [ ] John, continue with your irratating ways. We love to read all of
|> your responses to questions & flames that we have never seen.
|>  
|> the old moronic no opinion [ ] What a stupid idea in the first place,who
|> cares about someone with no opinion.
|> 
|> Rod  
|> 
|> -- 
|> Rod Beckwith     |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ 
|> Datacom I/S      |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance,
|> rodb@corp.sgi.com|but the illusion of knowledge."
|>                  |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
|> 
|> 
|> 			
|> 


YES, PLEASE REFRAIN FROM POSTING WHAT SHOULD BE EMAIL RESPONSES TO THIS NEWSGROUP.

BRICK
Xref: sparky alt.alien.visitors:4683 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1926
From: clune@physics.Berkeley.EDU (Tom Clune)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories
Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterr
Date: 22 Jul 1992 15:38:52 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: physics.berkeley.edu

A while back, some astronomers noticed some jets associated with galaxies that
"appeared" to exceed the speed of light.  The simple resolution of this paradox
is relevant to this discussion.

Suppose a ship takes off from a star 10 light years away, and heads straight
toward Earth.  Lets assume the ship quickly attains the speed of 90%
of the speed of light (relative to the earth).
At first we on Earth see nothing.  In fact only after ten years do we see
the ship take off.  (Of course being scientists, we can then infer the original
departure time by extrapolation.).  The ship reaches us 11.1 years after
its departure.  Hence, a naive observer on the Earth "sees" the ship travel
10 light years in only 1.1 years.  There is no contradiction with relativity
here.

In fact, by playing with the numbers one can arrange situations
in which arbitrarily high speeds are "observed".  Once the propagation speed
of the light we are using for observation is taken into account though, all
relative velocities will be found to be less than the speed of light (according to
special relativity, which seems prettyy well established by experiment).

- Tom
From: cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: NASA's Block of Ice!
Date: 24 Jul 92 16:45:03 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

In article <1992Jul24.031232.10196@news.unomaha.edu> jcitro3@cwis.unomaha.edu (Joe Citro III) writes:
>I do not claim to be a physicist or even a hobbiest of quantum mechanics, but
>if the first object was indeed ice that moved due to the shuttle's engines
>(or whatever) then why did the first object that clearly seems to be 
>furtherter
>away move first? Would not the initial force applied by the shuttle act on
>the nearer object first (supposed fired shot)?  Accordingly, the UFO would not
>have moved until the shot (or ice) arrived. Any explanations?
>
>                                        Joseph A. Citro III
>                                        
How can you say that any of the objects is clearly further away than any
of the others?  There aren't a lot of visual clues in the video that allow
you to determine the distances of the ice flecks.

Ithlial


My opinions, mine, mine, mine!

To me, boxing is like ballet, except there's no music, no choreography,
and the dancers hit eachother.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
From: tffreeba@indyvax.iupui.edu
Subject: Re: zeta reticuli?
Organization: Indiana University
Date: 24 Jul 92 12:45:06 -0500

In article <4whmq#-@lynx.unm.edu>, cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer) writes:
> In article <1992Jul23.141246.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> tffreeba@indyvax.iupui.edu writes:
>>In article <nxgmw=f@lynx.unm.edu>, cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer) writes:

> 
> You're entirely correct in saying that the comfort zone (CZ) will move
> out.  Unfortunately you guess that the red giant phase is too short
> is also true.  Usually the phase lasts a few 100 million years, in addition
> the luminosity is fluctating which will cause the CZ to move (although
> not as much as the intially change to red giant caused it to move. 
> Ithlial

Interesting point (that I had never thought about.)  I was talking about
main sequence lifetime for a star with enough mass to become red _super_
giant.  Are not these the ones that reach such proportions?
Thomas Freebairn 

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories
From: spiering@fys.ruu.nl (Geert Spiering)
Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterr
Organization: Physics Department, University of Utrecht,  The Netherlands
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 08:03:18 GMT

I hope this adds to the discussion, but since everyone keeps repeating
the statement that nothing can travel faster than light, i would like
to bring up tachyons.
Einsteins theory only states that nothing can travel WITH the speed of
light. This means that you cannot accelerate to above the speed of light
from velocities less than the speed of light. (An infinite amount of
energy would be necessary).
However there may be particles that ALWAYS travell at velocities > c.
The catch is, that these particles would have to have imaginary masses.
One could still associate real energies to these particles, that are
singular at v=c. This means that these particles cannot slow down to
velocities<c.
Of course, no one has ever seen particles with imaginary masses....

	Geert Spierings.


Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne)
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 02:22:11 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <4607@balrog.ctron.com> smith@ctron.com writes:
>In article <62793@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes:
>
>John, there are many very weird groups that have many very weird people who
>post to them, and there are no groups at all that are weirder than alt.alien.
>visitors, nor do people come any weirder than some that post in this group.
>
>But, John, you are abusing the privilege, and you may be the first person I
>have ever heard of who might really profit from professional help or a good
>long talk with the clergyperson of your choice.  I certainly don't think you
>can get much worse.
>
>If you refuse, as I expect you will, you should at least learn that:
>
>A) Usenet does not guarantee your posts will arrive in the order in which they
>   were sent.
>B) Usenet does not guarantee your posts will sort in order or even together, if
>   they, perchance, arrive on the same day.
>C) Usenet does not require you break up all your posts into five-line snippets,
>   you can just post your message and be done with it.

This can be explained simply in that John Winston is a computer novice who
has yet to figure how to invoke the editor in Portal. If you do not invoke
the editor (choices are vi and ed), you get one screen full of text, which is
what we see in his posts. Depending upon how you look at it, this may be a
blessing.

This has a simple explanation, the rest speaks for itself I'm afraid.

>D) You should run right out and read "The Origin of Consciousness in the
>   Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind" by Julian Jaynes.  In fact, it should
>   be required reading of anyone before reading this newsgroup, as it explains
>   a great deal of what I see posted here.
>
>Larry Smith (smith@ctron.com) No, I don't speak for Cabletron.
>-------------------------------------------------------------


Rich

payner@netcom.com   Who does -not- have an obnoxious sig yet...  :^)



Xref: sparky alt.alien.visitors:4731 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1935
From: sichase@csa2.lbl.gov (SCOTT I CHASE)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories
Subject: Re: Tachyons (was Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterr
Date: 23 Jul 92 19:04:16 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory - Berkeley, CA, USA
Distribution: na
Reply-To: sichase@csa2.lbl.gov
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.254.197
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4   

In article <1992Jul23.105148.13665@kth.se>, tordm@vana (Tord Malmgren) writes...
> 
> as far as I understood Einstein's relativity it was only valid with speeds
>less than "c", and what happened with speeds larger than "c" it could not
>predict, so as far as I understand these Tachyons need not possess imaginary
>mass at all; maybe they could be real, but how they got into that state no
>theory tells us...

Not so.  There is a very nice entry in the sci.physics faq (I should know - 
I wrote it!) on the subject of tachyons.  I recommend it to all.

-Scott
--------------------
Scott I. Chase			"The question seems to be of such a character
SICHASE@CSA2.LBL.GOV		that if I should come to life after my death
				and some mathematician were to tell me that it
				had been definitely settled, I think I would
				immediately drop dead again."      - Vandiver
From: mcgrew@dropout.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Erich Von Daniken
Date: 28 Jul 92 14:56:12 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.


	mike@cadme2.sdsu.edu writes (sorry about that, Mike):

	..."Gold of the Gods"...but I don't recall any real "fiasco".

... well, I was actually referring to his interview in "Playboy" in
which he (after evading vigorously) admitted that he had not actually
been in the cave, or even been near where he said it was (even though
he claimed in the book, as I recall, to have seen the gold).

Charles "I buy for the articles" McGrew
From: steve@fulcrum.oz.au (Steve Taylor)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Kevin Fisher
Date: 30 Jul 92 01:11:16 GMT
Organization: The Fulcrum Consulting Group

Kevin - 
	your mail to John Winston ended up in my mailbox. I tried to email
	you back, but it bounced.

								Steve
From: william@moica.berkeley.edu (William E. Grosso)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: John_-_Winston Poll : yes [X]
Date: 27 Jul 1992 19:54:03 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: moica.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Jul27.185943.9866@nynexst.com> pjc@mirage.nynexst.com  
(Peter Colonel) writes:
> [X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X]
> [X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X]
> [X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X]
> [X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X]
> [X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X]
> 
> 'nuf said ???

No. Not enough said. you negelected to mention which box you
were x'ing. All we know is that you have a very strongly held 
opinion. Personally, I hope you're x'ing the apathetic box
(for esthetic reasons).


Bill Grosso



Xref: sparky alt.alien.visitors:4962 alt.conspiracy:9478 alt.activism:13789 sci.skeptic:13459 misc.headlines:5044 alt.politics.bush:393
From: timpson@acetek.enet.dec.com
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.politics.bush
Subject: Re: UFO "October Surprise" and USA TAKEOVER?!
Date: 31 Jul 92 13:12:31 GMT
Reply-To: timpson@acetek.enet.dec.com ()
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


	YYYYAAAAWWWWWNNNNN!


	Steve Food_for_the_Greys




--
        -----------------------------------------------------------------
        |                                                               |
        |  My atheism, like that of Spinoza, is true piety towards the  |
        |  universe and denies only gods fashioned by men in their own  |
        |  image to be servants of their human interests.               |
        |                                                               |
        |                                  -- George Santayana          |
        |                                                               |
        -----------------------------------------------------------------
        
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories
From: aero@titan.ecn.uoknor.edu (Aero Student Account)
Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterr
Organization: Engineering Computer Network, University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK, USA
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 15:51:12 GMT

ccasm@cc.newcastle.edu.au writes:

>In article <1992Jul21.002755.17265@news.eng.convex.com>, swarren@convex.com (Steve Warren) writes:
>> Nope.  The fact is that nothing can travel faster than light, in any reference
>> frame.  If it wasn't for the foreshortening effect, you would literally see
>> the universe passing by faster than the speed of light.

>I disagree. One cannot see anything passing faster than the speed of light, but
>that does not stop objects travelling faster than c.

Where did you get this conclusion?????  (And I did read the rest of the
article)  From the first part of the statement,
it seems you think you accept relativity.  But the second part shows that you
have a faulty understanding of it.  NOTE: RELATIVITY PROHIBITS TRAVEL AT
C OR ABOVE!!!!  PERIOD.  Furthermore, relativity prohibits the transmission
of any information by any means at speeds faster than light.

--------
Jonathan A. Bishop
aero@neptune.ecn.uoknor.edu

"Yippee!  That may have been a small one for Neil,
 but it was a big one for me."
                            --Pete Conrad
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic