HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: faris@sarcasm.trl.OZ.AU (Aziz Faris)
Subject: Re: What is  H a m a s  ??
Reply-To: a.Faris@trl.oz.au 
Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne,Australia
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 22:12:30 GMT

In article <1ifc8tINN9o4@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, cl056@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Hamaza H. Salah) writes:
|> 
|>  I really like your tone of writing this time.  I like the friendly mood.

And I love the tone of your writing Hamaza!.

|> of it to God existence.  As muslims, we beleive that there is one and only good
|> who is the creator, the giving, the almighty, etc..  Anyone who belives that 
|> God is not the only creator and there other Gods who assist Him in any doing,
|> then this means he is making ishraak, therefore he is called mushrik.  Jews and
|> christians are called mushrikeen because the make ishrak, Jews beleive that 
|> Ozir was the son of God, and christians beleive in the trinity and some others
|> beleive in God to be the jesus, which all considered by quran in so many verses
|> as mushrikeen.  Some Jews consider there is only one God, but they don't follow
|> his rules, that are in Torah.  For example, torah says one thing but they do 
|> the other.  This means they don't listen to what God judgement is, rather they
|> follow someone's else.  This is not applicable to jews only, but to all people
|> who do such a thing.

If you call Jews and Christians Mushrikeen, how is it that the Qur'an also
calls them the "People of the book". Isn't there a contradiction here?. Also
as I understand, in the opening prayer of the Qur'an, Muhammad himself is
praying to God to be kind on him as he is kind to them. How could you call
Jews and Christians as such?.

Not all Jews and Christians follow their book exactly, also not all Muslims
follow the Qur'an exactly. Furthermore, it is very difficult to tell who is
and who is not.

Mushrikeen as you point out are those who attempt to divide God into a number
of pieces and are Polytheists. How is an Atheist or an Agnostic treated, it
seems they do not fit that catagory. Furthermore, the above groups do not
care about religion at all and have no intentions of attacking Islam or any
other religion. Should they be attacked according to your beleif?.
 
|> I agree with what you understand about islam.  islam never punished people
|> for their beleifs.  i hope you understand what islam is all about and don't
|> jump to conclusions right away.  Please try to for the good of your being.

If Islam never punished people for their beleif, then why is Sulman Rushdie
is hiding and why is it not allowed for a Muslim to convert to another religion
or be Agnostic or an Atheist?.

Also, is a "Good being" only a "Religious being" or a "Muslim being" or a
good being can be any person?.

A.Faris
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
From: jle@locus.com (John Elghani)
Subject: Re: Are Lebanese considered ARABS?????
Organization: LC
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 93 05:23:08 GMT

In article <1993Jan8.160737.10004@ac.dal.ca> bibr0027@ac.dal.ca writes:
>I am a Lebanese
>only....  What have the Arabs done for us, except force Palestians
>unto our land

How where the Palestinians forced onto Lebanon?   
Where they also forced onto Syria, Jordan, Iraq, and Egypt?

Besides, most of those Palestinians in Lebanon are more
Lebanese that you are.  You are a Palestinian with less Lebanese
in you than them.  They where born there (you where not), speak of
a Lebanese accent, know about Lebanon more than Palestine,
and care alot for what happens to Lebanon.

They all wish to return to Palestine, there right, whenever
they could.

>fear these "Phadaeey"?  Palestians are arabs aren't they?  Who gives

As to the term Phadaeey,  it means :  A fighter that is willing
to give his life for a the cause.  The Lebanese don't fear the
Phadaeeyeh, in fact most of them faught along them against
agents of Israel such as the Kataeb, SLA, ..etc.  Now the 
Lebanese themselves are carrying the term Phadaeeyeh
to fight Israeli theft in the South.

Israel itself fears those people, and in return, they created
a problem between the fighters and some Lebanese extremists.
The Lebanese later probably realised the game and in fact
the Kataeb later began helping the Phadaeeyeh, the allowed
thousands of PLO fighters to come in thru Jounieh then
thru east Beirut to return the the Camps fully armed.


jle
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic,talk.politics.mideast
From: eggertj@moses.atc.ll.mit.edu (Jim Eggert x6127 g41)
Subject: Re: WHERE DO THE "palestinians" COME FROM?
Reply-To: eggertj@atc.ll.mit.edu
Organization: MIT Lincoln Lab - Group 41
	<EGGERTJ.93Jan6231027@moses.atc.ll.mit.edu>
	<1993Jan7.223725.29938@bony1.bony.com>
Date: 10 Jan 93 01:15:32

In article <1993Jan7.223725.29938@bony1.bony.com> jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni) writes:
>   >The Arabs do not outnumber the Israelis by an order of magnitude
>   >militarily in any respect that is important, 
>
>   I don't have any figures here with me but Israel is outnumbered by at
>   least an order of magnitude c.f. the Arabs in:
>    - numbers of full-time soldiers
>    - numbers of tanks
>    - numbers of military aircraft
>   and probably in 
>    - defense budgets.

You don't have the figures there because you are quite wrong.  Here
are some numbers from 1978, courtesy of the US Arms Control and
Disarmament Agency:

                         Defense Budget          Standing Army
                         (million US$)            (thousands)
Syria                        1176                     225
Iraq                         2136                     140
Jordan                        280                      70
Kuwait                       1028                      10
Libya                         469                      50
Saudi Arabia                10284                      50
Morocco                       452                     115
Oman                          799                      12
United Arab Emirates          686                      25
Egypt                        1354                     350
Lebanon                        70                       9
Yemen                         122                      40
Southern Yemen                 79                      20
Tunisia                        95                      20
Algeria                       431                      75
Total of above              19461                    1211

Israel                       3914                     165

You see, Israel is not outnumbered by an order of magnitude in either
defense budgets or in standing army size (1978 figures).

Even so, these data are skewed.  More than half the dollar amount is
from Saudi Arabia, which has never attacked Israel.  In fact, I have
included several countries of this type.  Also, Israel does not
rely on a standing army for her defense, so the 165,000 number is a
gross underestimate of Israel's real army.

Basically, you are full of it.  I stand by my original statement.

>   In fact, the Iraqi raid on Kuwait was scandalous in part because the
>   Kuwaitis had been spending incredible amounts on defense, I think it
>   averaged out to $ 50,000 - 60,000 PER SOLDIER per annum.  

Consult the above table.  In 1978 it was $102,000 per soldier.  But
even though Kuwait spent incredible amounts of petrodollars on their
military, Israel spent about four times as much.

--
=Jim  eggertj@atc.ll.mit.edu (Jim Eggert)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic,talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.jewish
From: jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni)
Subject: Re: Name of Palestinian Deportees (part i)
Organization: The Department of Redundancy Department
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 93 22:27:32 GMT

In article <1ide8iINNchv@shelley.u.washington.edu> kaygee@hardy.u.washington.edu (Kevin Giansante) writes:

>Here, let me make myself clear: What I see are Palestinians
>resisting persecution and oppression by a military power that has
>occupied their territory.

"Occupied their territory"?  Unlike Egypt and Lebanon, say, there has
never in history been a Palestinean empire, kingdom, country or state.
If the West Bank has been "occupied" by Israel, wouldn't it be exactly
equally true to say that the East Bank has been "occupied" by Jordan?

As for "resisting persecution and oppression by a military power", in
your previous posting you said "Violence and brutality are violence
and brutality no matter what you call them."  How can you now call the
brutal, terrorist savagery of the Intifada "resistance to oppression",
when more Arabs are being killed in the Intifada by other Arabs than
by Israeli soldiers?

>That's not a civil war.  That's self-defense.

As you stated in your previous posting:

  "You can't change reality by changing its name.  Facts don't go
  away just because you choose not to see them."

>Sorry for the confusion.

Double talk and double standard is more like it.  Try and avoid them
in the future.

-- 
Jake Livni  jake@bony1.bony.com              10 years from now, George Bush will
American-Occupied New York                   have replaced Jimmy Carter as the
My opinions only - employer has no opinions. standard of a failed President.
From: LMWHITE@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Lois White)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Re: He's finally arrived
Date: 10 Jan 93 19:07:38 GMT
 <1993Jan10.142035.654@dsg.cs.tcd.ie>
Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center

In article <1993Jan10.142035.654@dsg.cs.tcd.ie>, ahmed@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Ahmed
El-Habbash) says:
>
>I think one should start from the beginning with the language that could
>be under threat. The local languge which is the language of the country
>where you are living, will come naturally to the children and you don't
>need to waste your effort on that.  The children will be exposed to your
>native language only during the short contactcs you do with them, and
>for a short period in the early stages of their life, but after that
>they will be exposed to the local language most the time; through media,
>contact with other children, school, ..etc., and you will also find yourself
>talking to them some times with the local language (French).
>So, I think, if they lost the chance of aquiring some feeling and some
>vocabulary of the native language at the early stages, then they may not
>have that chance once again without difficulty.
>
Yes yes yes.  I know people who were born in this country (USA) whose
parents taught them their native language (Arabic, German, etc.)
in this manner and they (now grown up) speak both their native language and
English with equal fluency.  I also know some unfortunate people whose parents
were afraid to confuse them when they were children by teaching them their
native language and now they (the children now grown up) can't speak their
parents' tongue and are very sorry about it.  Children have a wonderful
ability to learn any language when they are first starting to talk, so
please do teach them Arabic.  The French, English, or whatever the local
language is will come easily to them because so many people around them
will speak it and teach them in it.

Congratulations to the "new" parents in s.c.a.  May you and your children
prosper and have good health and happiness.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
From: faris@sarcasm.trl.OZ.AU (Aziz Faris)
Subject: Re: Al-Baqarah #143
Reply-To: a.Faris@trl.oz.au 
Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne,Australia
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 20:35:05 GMT

In article <1993Jan11.170841.6845@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, mmdh@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (Mazen Mokhtar) writes:
|> 
|>   We can't. You just asked me about the position of Islam and I stated it.
|> Without the existence of the books, the most we can do is rely on the accounts
|> which say that Jesus (PBUH) was given a book as part of the message he was
|> charged with delivering, and that is very far from a proof.

I assume these accounts are stated in the Qur'an. If so, it means that
Muhammad knew that the Christians and Jews were Mushrikeen, yet they were
called people of the book and were not directed to convert, I ask why?.

|> 
|>   The concept of original sin described in the OT is a concept with which
|> Islam has no problem, namely that Adam sinned, that humans commit sins and
|> that people are responsible for their own deeds. The concept which Islam
|> finds unjust is the idea that people inherited Adam's sin. This is an
|> idea which only Christians advocate.

Jews and Christians advocate the concept of original sin, I welcome the fact
that Islam finds it unjust. Similarly, Jews, Christians, and Muslims advocate
that many health problems are caused because God wants to test a person's faith.
This is along the lines of the Job (Ayoub) story. The fact that Islam finds
original sin is unjust while we are saying that Islam was sent by God like
the other religions what lead me to ask if God has changed his mind.

|>   This is incorrect. These concepts existed at least as early as the beginning
|> of recorded history.

You are correct, they existed in other cultures. It appears they have been
borrowed into those three Semitic religions.

A.Faris 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
From: faris@sarcasm.trl.OZ.AU (Aziz Faris)
Subject: Philosophy of Nationhood
Reply-To: a.Faris@trl.oz.au 
Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne,Australia
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 21:21:21 GMT


According to the Torah, God gave the land of Palestine which was occupied
by the Canaanites to the decendants of Abraham and more specifically that
of Isaac. Circumcision of males was the sign between God and Abraham as to
honor that promise. Converts into Judaism are not decendants of Isaac and
it is beleived that many Eastern European Jews are converts and are Khazars.
Hence:

1. Do these people have the right to kick the indiginious Palestinians out
of their place of birth and be part of the Jewish Nation?.

2. Since they are not decendants of Isaac, should they be included in the
Jewish Nation?.

According to the Qur'an, the Arabs of Arabia are decendants of Abraham also
and more specifically that of Ismail. The decendants of Ismail are Muslims
and a certain percentage of Palestinians are decendants of Ismail.
However, the decendants of Ismail have been also promised their share of
Palestine, and if they choose to be part of an Islamic nation; then:

1. Do the converts into Islam have the right to kick a Jew out of Palestine
and be part of a Palestinian Nation which is Islamic?.

2. Since those converts may not be decendants of Ismail or Sam, should they
be included in the Palestinian Nation which is Islamic?.

Hence:

Can or should Nationhood be based or religious affiliation?.

A.Faris 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic,talk.politics.mideast
From: jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni)
Subject: Re: WHERE DO THE "palestinians" COME FROM?
Organization: The Department of Redundancy Department
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 23:48:17 GMT

In article <1993Jan8.003457.13491@informix.com> proberts@informix.com (Paul Roberts) writes:
>In article <1993Jan7.194335.20578@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> carasso@Turing.ORG (Roger Carasso) writes:

>>ISRAEL SURVIVES FOR TWO REASONS:
>>
>>	1. IT'S TROOPS ARE BETTER TRAINED AND SMARTER.
>>	2. DEFENSIVE WARS ARE EASIER TO FIGHT.*

>Having a couple of hundred nuclear weapons may help (Arab nations have
>none).

Yeah, right.  Israel's better trained, smarter troops have used
hundreds of nuclear weapons in several defensive wars to enable them
to survive.  

What a dope!

-- 
Jake Livni  jake@bony1.bony.com              10 years from now, George Bush will
American-Occupied New York                   have replaced Jimmy Carter as the
My opinions only - employer has no opinions. standard of a failed President.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
From: ilyess@ECE.Concordia.CA (Ilyess Bdira)
Subject: Re: Gulf war aftermath..
Organization: ECE - Concordia University
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 15:04:51 GMT

In article <C0KHIx.BHF@cs.uiuc.edu> najem@cs.uiuc.edu (Ziad H. Najem) writes:
>ilyess@ECE.Concordia.CA (Ilyess Bdira) writes:
>
>> If you are still wondering why many Arabs did not sympathize with
>> the Kuwaiti ruling family, maybe this article will not convince, but
>> I will try 
>
>> 	MADRID (UPI) -- ... [news report deleted]
>
>
>Ok. Now would you please try to expain why many arabs did not
>sympathize with the Kuwaiti citizens. Remember that the ruling family
>is less that 1/500 of the total population. Were 499 citizens punished
>for the sake of one ruling family member ? 
>
>Eagrly waiting,
I asked the same questions about the 200,000 Iraqi citizenswho died as
a result of Saddam's adventures, and the answer was " they should have 
overthrown Saddam", well some Iraqis did try but they were slaughtered
by Saddam's Republican guards (who were preserved by the U.S just for that
purpose) while the world watched..

It seems that the Citizens of a country are always blamed for the situation
in their country whether or not they are directly responsible for it.

> - Ziad
>   najem@cs.uiuc.edu


Xref: sparky soc.culture.arabic:6529 talk.politics.mideast:25282
From: proberts@informix.com (Paul Roberts)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic,talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: WHERE DO THE "palestinians" COME FROM?
Date: 13 Jan 93 04:48:21 GMT
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.

In article <1993Jan12.234817.18242@bony1.bony.com> jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni) writes:
>
>Yeah, right.  Israel's better trained, smarter troops have used
>hundreds of nuclear weapons in several defensive wars to enable them
>to survive.  
>

The possession of nuclear weapons has considerable significance,
without their actually being used. I would have thought that the
history of the world in the latter half of the 20th centuary
would make this clear.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.bulgaria:2045 soc.culture.canada:9786 soc.culture.caribbean:2002
From: kaygee@hardy.u.washington.edu (Kevin Giansante)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bulgaria
Subject: rfe/rl january 12
Date: 12 Jan 93 16:24:43 GMT
Article-I.D.: shelley.1iurcbINN466
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
NNTP-Posting-Host: hardy.u.washington.edu

From rferl-daily-report-request@admina.rferl.org Tue Jan 12
08:06:45 1993
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 14:00:38 +0100
From: rferl-daily-report-request@admina.rferl.org
To: Multiple recipients of list RFERL-L <RFERL-L@UBVM.BITNET>
Subject: RFE/RL Daily Report 12 JAN, 1993

The RFE/RL Daily Report is a digest of the latest developments
in Russia, Transcaucasia and Central Asia, and Central and
Eastern Europe. It is published Monday through Friday (except
German holidays) by the RFE/RL Research Institute (a division of
Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty, Inc.). Copyright 1993 RFE/RL,
Inc.


----------------------------------------------------------------
                        RFE/RL Daily Report

                                           No. 6 12 January 1993


BULGARIA ON COLLISION COURSE WITH THE IMF. In a TV interview over
the weekend, Bulgaria's new finance minister warned that his
country might suspend cooperation with the International Monetary
Fund unless some of its strict requirements are dropped, Reuters
reported on 11 January. Stoyan Aleksandrov, appointed finance
minister two weeks ago, said Bulgaria needs "less restrictive
parameters" or it will have to consider withdrawal from the IMF.
Aleksandrov declared that he plans to let the budget deficit
increase to 810% of GNP, instead of the 5% urged by IMF
officials,
in order to be able to spend more on social programs. An IMF
delegation to examine the 1992 economic performance and negotiate
new targets is due in Sofia on 13 January.  Kjell Engelbrekt,
RFE/RL, Inc.


[AS of 1200 CET]
Compiled by Hal Kosibah and Charles Trumbull, RFE/RL, Inc.
The RFE/RL Daily Report is produced by the RFE/RL Research
Institute (a division of Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty, Inc.)
with the assistance of the RFE/RL News and Current Affairs
Division (NCA). The report is available by electronic mail
via LISTSERV (RFERL-L@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU), on the
Sovset' computer bulletin board, by fax, and by postal mail.

Requests for permission to reprint or retransmit this material
should be addressed to PD@RFERL.ORG. Such requests will
generally be granted on the condition that the material is
clearly attributed to the RFE/RL Daily Report. For inquiries
about specific news items, subscriptions, or additional copies,
please contact:

In USA:
Mr. Jon Lodeesen or Mr. Brian Reed
RFE/RL, Inc.
1201 Connecticut Avenue NW
Washington, DC 20036.
Telephone: (202) 457-6912 or -6900
fax: (202) 457-6992 or -202-828-8783;
Internet: RI-DC@RFERL.ORG

or in Europe:

Ms. Helga Hofer
Publications Department
RFE/RL Research Institute
Oettingenstrasse 67
8000 Munich 22
Telephone: (+49 89) 2102-2631 or -2642
fax: (+49 89) 2102-2648
Internet: PD@RFERL.ORG

Copyright 1993, RFE/RL, Inc. All rights reserved.
From: kaygee@hardy.u.washington.edu (Kevin Giansante)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bulgaria
Subject: RFE/RL January 7
Date: 7 Jan 93 20:19:08 GMT
Article-I.D.: shelley.1ii37sINNace
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
NNTP-Posting-Host: hardy.u.washington.edu

From rferl-daily-report-request@admina.rferl.org Thu Jan  7
12:08:06 1993
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 14:43:08 +0100
From: rferl-daily-report-request@admina.rferl.org
To: Multiple recipients of list RFERL-L <RFERL-L@UBVM.BITNET>
Subject: RFE/RL Daily Report 07 JAN, 1993

The RFE/RL Daily Report is a digest of the latest developments
in Russia, Transcaucasia and Central Asia, and Central and
Eastern Europe. It is published Monday through Friday (except
German holidays) by the RFE/RL Research Institute (a division of
Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty, Inc.). Copyright 1993 RFE/RL,
Inc.


----------------------------------------------------------------
                 RFE/RL Daily Report

                                     No. 3, 7 January 1993


Bulgarians Stop Clearance of Collaboration
Charges.
As one of the first actions in his new
position, Minister of Internal Affairs Viktor
Mihaylov on 4 January halted the review and
certification intended to clear politicians and
top officials of unfounded charges of
collaboration with the former State Security
apparatus, BTA reports. The decree, under which
prominent Bulgarians could demand a review and,
if exonerated, a certificate confirming that
they never collaborated, was introduced on 14
December by former Prime Minister Filip
Dimitrov. In justifying the move Mihaylov told
an RFE/RL correspondent that the decree is
unfair since it makes no distinction among
various kinds of collaboration, some of which
might have been for the good of the nation. New
prime minister Lyuben Berov is expected to
revoke the decree in its entirety.  Kjell
Engelbrekt, RFE/RL, Inc.


Compiled by Hal Kosiba and Charles Trumbull
The RFE/RL Daily Report is produced by the RFE/RL Research
Institute (a division of Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty, Inc.)
with the assistance of the RFE/RL News and Current Affairs
Division (NCA). The report is available by electronic mail
via LISTSERV (RFERL-L@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU), on the
Sovset' computer bulletin board, by fax, and by postal mail.

Requests for permission to reprint or retransmit this material
should be addressed to PD@RFERL.ORG. Such requests will
generally be granted on the condition that the material is
clearly attributed to the RFE/RL Daily Report. For inquiries
about specific news items, subscriptions, or additional copies,
please contact:

In USA:
Mr. Jon Lodeesen or Mr. Brian Reed
RFE/RL, Inc.
1201 Connecticut Avenue NW
Washington, DC 20036.
Telephone: (202) 457-6912 or -6900
fax: (202) 457-6992 or -202-828-8783;
Internet: RI-DC@RFERL.ORG

or in Europe:

Ms. Helga Hofer
Publications Department
RFE/RL Research Institute
Oettingenstrasse 67
8000 Munich 22
Telephone: (+49 89) 2102-2631 or -2642
fax: (+49 89) 2102-2648
Internet: PD@RFERL.ORG

Copyright 1993, RFE/RL, Inc. All rights reserved.