HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bhatnagr@ucunix.san.uc.edu (Raj Bhatnagar)
Subject: Re: Mandir/Maszid/Girza/Gurudwara
Organization: University of Cincinnati
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 15:05:48 GMT

In article <1gar4cINN2am@alhena.usc.edu> sadhal@alhena.usc.edu (Sati Sadhal) writes:
>In article <11DEC199212381450@vx.cis.umn.edu> secular@love.and.respect.for.all writes:
>>that one religion is better than the other.  Let's build the 
>>world's first *multireligious shrine* at the site.  Let's make the
>>BIGGEST and the most BEAUTIFUL Hindu temple, Moslem Mosque, 
>>Sikh Gurudwara, and Christian Church side by side as four 
>>corners of a square.  That would be a perfect salute to 
>>secularism and (hopefully) also satisfy the Hindu fundamentalists
>>and BabriMaszid faithfuls alike.
>.
>.     ABSOLUTELY GREAT IDEA!!!!!!!!!
>.
>	As a Sikh I Support it 100%
>.
>. 	Let the Secular Forces Rise!!!!
>
>			------ Satwindar Singh Sadhal
>


Here is another strong YES vote for, not only at RJB/BM site in Ayodhya
but anywhere in India, a *single building* which houses facilities for
Hindu/Sikh worship alongside Muslim/Christian/any other worship. I will
be one of the first to contribute money and my enrgies for raising
funds for any such endeavour.

I am sure a lot of liberal Muslims may accept such a concept but the
Ulema that controls the views of a majority of Indian Muslims would
find the idea an anathema. Only about two weeks back Suleiman Sait and
Shahabuddin had strongly opposed the singing of the Vande mataram at 
the beginning of Parliamentary sessions claiming that this song was
non-secular. To bring around such people to share a hall in which
Azan, Arati, Shabad, and Bible may all be heard is indeed a difficult
task - for it will be a height of non-secularism from their perspective.
(BTW : The speaker's decision in response to Sait+Shahabuddin's
objections was equally vague - He ruled that Vande Mataram be sung
at the end of a Parliamentary session instead of its beginning.)



---raj
From: deepak@konark.njit.edu (Deepak Kakadasam)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Ram
Keywords: Ram
Date: 16 Dec 92 22:27:18 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <28196@optima.cs.arizona.edu> lal@cs.arizona.edu (The Morning Sun) writes:
>Oxford American Dictionary:
>Ram  1. An uncastrated male sheep.

Here's more from Webster:
1. ram \'ram\ n [ME, fr. OE ramm; akin to OHG ram] 1: a male sheep  2a:
  BATTERING RAM  2b: a warship with a heavy beak at the prow for
  piercing an enemy ship  3: any of various guided pieces for exerting pressure
  or for driving or for cing something by impact : as 3a: the plunger of a 
  hydrostatic press or force pump  3b: the weight that strikes the blow in a 
  pile driver
2. ram vb or rammed;  or ram.ming [ME rammen] 1: to strike with violence
  : CRASH  2: to move with extreme rapidity  1: to force in by driving 
  2a: to make compact (as by pounding)  2b: CRAM, CROWD  3: to force
  passage or acceptance of {~ home an idea}  4: to strike against violently 
  - ram.m



--
VLSI:=> "Getting High On Low Voltage"       ** 
E15WNJTPXE15x280WXR1TL21NXL4TL17NXR10TL->    **    Those who can, DO
You can tune a guitar, but you cant tuna fish.**    Those who cant, TEACH.
*******************************************************************************
From: kbanerje@grad09.math.ncsu.edu (Kaushik Banerjee)
Subject: recipe for kulfi wanted
Organization: NCSU Mathematics Dept.
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 17:56:59 GMT


Recipe for kulfi wanted. If you know of one, please
e-mail me at kbanerje@math.ncsu.edu

thanx

k. banerjee
From: mece1e3@Jane.UH.EDU
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: hyderabadi muslims, patriotism etc.,
Date: 18 Dec 1992 18:56:12 GMT
Organization: University of Houston
Reply-To: mece1e3@Jane.UH.EDU
NNTP-Posting-Host: jane.uh.edu

> Now, we come to the point. Do we take it as a process of evolution that
>the person will first outgrow his caste loyalities, religious,
>regional..loyalities, and finally even overcome his loyality for the
>country itself....I think the problem in india is that a few people are
>stuck up at the stage of religious loyality and another few who have
>outgrown nationalistic feelings...
>
Yes : the perennial Indian problem of the coexistence of the bullock
cart and the rocket launchers. Patriotism was a successful concept in
the nineteenth century : but it's not suitable for the twenty first.
Of course it should be clear that when I disown patriotism it does not
mean that I am not proud of my country. I am very proud to be an Indian
as I am proud to be a Bengali. Now India, as usual has missed the boat;
just as it did during the semiconductor revolution. I am not sure that
just trying to imitate Japan will help India go anywhere in the industrial
front. Similar is the situation in the social front. Just clinging to an
outdated concept will not lead you anywhere. Patriotism is not a panacea.
In that case Pakistan should have been way ahead of us. They do have a
"total" allegience to their country by your standards: don't they.

It is not for a man to glory that he loves his country; it is rather for
him to glory that he loves his kind: Bahaullah

Arindam
From: dchatterjee@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Washington Ready to Brand Pakistan a Terrorist State
Date: 18 Dec 92 20:18:45 CST
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

In article <1gtl3rINN3ct@crcnis1.unl.edu>, fall217@cse.unl.edu () writes:
> 
>  Yes pakistan is a terrorist country for those B. and sob who dont know the
> rights of the human being. From Khalistan to Nepal every one is herased by the 
> follish Indian myth of police man of subcontinent.  India is not more than a dog of USA which starts barking when USA want to pressureize pakistan and other
>  countries like srilanka bangladesh maldives etc
> I dont know when India will realise that their is some thing called pect of the rights of others but the countries which can not protect a masjid from the bunch
>  of punks how it will protect the whole country
> India better ask pakistani Army to protect their country.  Thousand of made in
> India policemem and Paramillitry could not controll an unarmed crowd.  It is 
> really very shamefull for any country but for the atomic power.
> 
> But when there was a sell for shame India gave away all its shame to buy some bombs.
> 
> 
> 
> 

   My dear swine:

   The more you whine the better the sun shine.

   Regarding Muslims, they are most pampered community in India.

   Regarding Pakistan, James Baker III had warned Mian Nawaz Sharif to
   stop fuelling armed revolution in Jammu and Kashmir. Amanuallah Khan
   has (leader of the JKLF forces) has his base in Islamambad. Since
   India had thrashed Pakistan to bits in 1971 - aiding in the liberation
   of Bangladesh, the lesson seems have not reached properly. The U.S
   has recognized that it did a mistake in the Nixon regime. However, as
   it is clear (except boneheads/ astaghfirrullah :-)) like yourself, GOP
   did not pay attention. Thus this is the royal kick'-n'-the ass. This is
   the same way the U.S has labelled Iran, Iraq, Libya and others as
   terrorist countries.


  You need some basic course to improve your ways of thinking ? What do
  you do for a living, sir ? Not sweeping the streets I hope !

   - stay alive astaghfirrullah,

      deb chatterjee
    (a good samaritan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: misdeva@yalevm.ycc.yale.edu (Devjani Mishra)
Subject: Re: Who's doing the killings...
Followup-To: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan
Organization: Yale University
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 21:11:44 GMT

In article <1gatbvINNcl5@tamsun.tamu.edu>, gagrawal@cs.tamu.edu (Gopal
Agrawal) wrote:
> 
> Lets not scream revenge for each other. Lets not brand the acts of 
> passionate fools in India/pak/Bangladesh as the logical thing to do 
> just because they are in a majority. Religion is bullshit and must 
> be ignored (if not hated) for all the immeasurable suffering and 
> chaos it has caused.
> 

Hey now.  That's just a little harsh.

I was born a Hindu, and occasionally still identify myself as one -
although I must say that this week I have been a little more loath to do so
than usual.  Generally, I say that I believe in God but do not subscribe to
any particular religion because I don't think that God would have put so
many rules, priests, structures, sacraments, mandirs, masjids etc. between
him/herself and humans.  That is my prerogative.

Gopal, you say religion is "bullshit".  That's your prerogative - perhaps
even more so for the name you bear - "Gopal".

Admittedly many horrible atrocities have been committed in what the two of
us would call the _mistaken_ assumption that these deeds brought someone
closer to God.  That is another reason that I find it hard to subscribe to
any one faith.

However, we cannot afford to "ignore" religion, precisely _because_ of the
profound effect that faith has upon the peoples of the world.  And as your
own sig. says, "Life's complex".  Even if you and I did choose to ignore
the "bullshit", many of our brothers and sisters in South Asia, Bosnia,
Ireland, Israel, Iran, and the world over would not do so - and then we are
back at square one.  Anything that can motivate so many, so intensely,
needs to be examined and understood and dealt with, not ignored and put
aside.

More importantly, the overwhelming majority of those who are "religious"
_do_not_ cause "immeasurable suffering and chaos".  These of our fellows
are the ones who want to see the suffering end, who feel the pain as
acutely as we do at events like those of this week.  They are at square one
with us.  Don't push them away.

God bless us, everyone.

       /-                 Devjani Mishra      misdeva@yalevm.ycc.yale.edu
      /   /               New Haven, CT          diva@minerva.cs.yale.edu
  ___/  _  _   _  ___           
 /  /   /   | /  /  /     "We don't see things as they are.
/__/_  /_   |/  /__/_     We see them as we are."
                                                               -Anais Nin
                           
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: vasudevy@eng.auburn.edu (Vasudev V. Yendapally)
Subject: Re: Ayodhya .... Aftermath.
Reply-To: vasudevy@eng.auburn.edu
Organization: Auburn University Engineering
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 03:50:56 GMT

Fafat writes	With what face and on what grounds???

with the same face and on the same grounds that you condemned the demolition of the
masjid. 

> > >  Such a reaction was to be
	anticipated...
I do agree that it was to be ---
but don't you agree with me that it is as undesirable as the 'demolition of the 
masjid' is?
And i don't see any reason for anybody to gloat over what has happened(or what's
happening) It doesn't augur well for the future of the country.
 

Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan
From: kumar@carleman.mit.edu (Kumar)
Subject: Re: "...... to castrate the Hindus ..."
Organization: MIT Department of Mathematics
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 92 18:27:49 GMT

>>philosophy, with Satti, where the wife is burnt with the husband, should
>>he die first, is a important part of Hinduism. If the British and the 
>>present government disallowed it, it does not mean, it goes away. 
>>Women are burnt alive in India, if they donot bring enough Jahez, or dowry
>>and the belief in Satti is alive and well, as it will always be in 
>>THE FACTS SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES.
>>Best Regards, >>Shams Hasan.

Congratulations o closed minded bigot. Yes the facts speak for themselves
but if and only if you can find facts in unbiased manner.

Fanatacism =/ Hinduism

I am as strong oponent of HSC or VHP as you can get 

DO NOT USE THESE RIOTS TO Shoot Crap at my faith.

By the way
since you talked about women, Islam has the record for degrading women
in the contemporary world. In some african muslim countries they even
remove the clitoris of young muslim girls so that they can not enjoy
sex. This is called Female circumcision. 

Out of about 350 million hindu women, less than 2000 die as a result
of dowry or sati in a year. 
Actually there are less than 3 sati cases in whole of
india per year. Congratulation on using that to justify your biases
to brand the other overwhelming majority - speaks a lot about you.

-- 
Thanks

Sanjay
From: bt00@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (Binod Taterway)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Mutliple citizenship ...
Date: 14 Dec 92 16:52:19 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

Do you know whether or not Indian Government allows dual citizenship?
I know that Israel and France, to name few, do permit dual citizenship.
Perhaps you could mail the responses to me, or if think it may be of
general interest to other readers, post them to the netlist. Thank you.
-- 

-Binod
------------------------
Binod Taterway
Sr. User Consultant, LUCC
bt00@Lehigh.EDU
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: ghouse@gauss.cs.jhu.edu (Mujtaba Ghouse)
Subject: Re: If Babri gets rebuild, would Pak rebuild ....
Organization: Johns Hopkins Computer Science Department, Baltimore, MD
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 16:04:51 GMT

bhides@tekig1.PEN.TEK.COM (Sandhiprakas J Bhide) writes:
> So many Paki's really came out strongly.  The question I have
> is if India rebuilds the Babri masjid, would Pakistan rebuild
> all the temples in Pakistan and in Jammu/Kashmir and issue an
> apology for all the temples that were destroyed for last umtin
> years !!   Just a curious question, that is all.

>Straight Question .. Straight Answers !!!

Straight answer: Yes.

This has been publicized on the net so much I wonder whether this guy
ever reads articles other than the ones he posts...

peace

-Mujtaba Ghouse
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: rsh@uts.amdahl.com (Ram Haridasa)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Indian Airlines strike
Date: 18 Dec 92 18:34:06 GMT
Reply-To: rsh@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com (Ram Haridasa)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA


Does anyone have information on the Indian Airlines pilots' strike ?
Is it continuing?. How extensive is it ? etc. Thanks.

Ram
From: gagrawal@cs.tamu.edu (Gopal Agrawal)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Indian Muslims had it their way since the independence.
Date: 12 Dec 1992 01:18:20 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept., Texas A&M University
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: sparc51.cs.tamu.edu

In article <1gb3d9INN6pp@kumquat.cs.utk.edu>, vkodali@cs.utk.edu (VENKATA RAMANA KODALI) writes:

|> Nice article. One of the few articles depicting the reality of the situation
|> in India. It is time to stop all the privileges enjoyed by the muslims
|> as a minority in India. 
|> 

|> Venky
|> vkodali@cs.utk.edu

If any undue priveleges are being given to any minority 
community, then they should be revoked instantly (BY
FORCE if necessary).  But would you mind spelling out
those priveleges that we Hindus would also like to have?

One of them is the laws relating to purchase/selling of 
land in kashmir, I think. 

What are the others ?

regards,
--   
   ______ ______ ______ ______ __  |\/\/\/|
    ____/  __  /  __  /  __  /  /  |  \  /|  LIFE's COMPLEX - IT HAS
   / __   /   /  /   /  /   /  /   | (o)(o)  REAL & IMAGINARY PARTS.
  /   /  /   /   ___/  __  /  /    C      _) 
_____/ _____/ __/   __/ __/ ______/ | \___|  
E-mail - gagrawal@cs.tamu.edu       |   /   All Std. Disclaimers apply.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan
From: shamshoo@shelley.u.washington.edu (Shams Hasan)
Subject: Re: Narrow Hindu Beliefs- was- Ram (Was he Fact or Fiction)??
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 05:49:15 GMT


Dear Mr. Kapoor,

Your religion stinks. [hint: a particularly unpleasntly smelling liquid derived
			     from the cleansing of humans and animals via such
			     useful organs as, kidneys and bladders]


Best Regards,
Shams Hasan.
From: srsurapa@mtu.edu (Surapanani)
Subject: Re: Babri Masjid - a poem In article <1992Dec13.173451.15295@mtu.edu>, srsurapa@mtu.edu (Surapanani) writes:
Organization: Michigan Technological University
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 18:41:16 GMT

>      Hundreds of years ago
>         in the land of valleys and rivers
>         enveloped by mighty Himalayas in the north
>         and the waters of Indian ocean in the south
>         the cows grazed on
>         on the luxurious pastures
>         chewing and chanting
>         holy hymns and
>         in peace with nature and mind
> 
> 
>      Into the land of holy cows
>         rode a moghul king and his fakirs
>         and as the cows looked by
>         in shock and stupor
>         they thundered and plundered by
> 
> 
>      The temples were raged
>         meadows were reaped
>         palaces built and masjids erected
>         and one such mosque was
>         named after the Babur the conqueror
> 
>      Hundreds of years later
>         as the splendor and wonder
>         of the moguls subsided
>         the holy cows and magic fakirs
>         lived by in peace and harmony
>         chewing and chanting
>         holy hymns and abracadabra
>         in peace with nature and mind
> 
>      But the masjid from the yester years
>         symbolizing the excesses of the past
>         flared like a red flag
>         haunting and taunting
>         in the eyes of seething and raging bulls
> 
>      As the anger and frustrations rose
>         from the wounds of the past
>         the bulls came out of stupor
>         and decided to heal the wounds
>         for the future
> 
>      So as the fakirs looked by
>         the bulls flocked
>         in hundreds of thousands
>         and like a simmering volcano
>         erupting from the womb
>         they attacked and destroyed
>         the masjid from the past 
>         and with it the haunted memories
> 
>      As the relic of the past
>         turned into dust and debris
>         the anger and hostility
>         subdued and subsided
>         and the bulls dispersed
>         like the ebbing tides of the dying storm
>         to their grazing lands
> 
>       Another dark day in the history has passed
>         as the masjid fell to the ground
>         so did 1000 lives
>         and in the ruins of relic
>         lay the tombs of innocent
>         their only crime being
>         the belief in religion
>         mandir or masjid
>         one or the other
> 
>       As time passed
>         a mosque and a temple
>         were placed one besides the other
>         and as the winds of the calm breezed by
>         the holy cows and magic fakirs
>         lived by in peace and harmony
>         chewing and chanting
>         holy hymns and abracadabra
>         in peace with nature and mind

Keywords:
From: Raj.Subramani@newcastle.ac.uk (D. Subramani)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: To be or not to be - ashamed
Date: 14 Dec 92 09:31:14 GMT
Organization: University of Newcastle upon Tyne, UK, NE1 7RU


Of course, all those (including me) who felt ashamed about what
happened (in Ayodhya) felt so because we had a sense of what 
is right and what is wrong. 

Maybe they burnt Hindu's in Pakistan (and that is not acceptable either)
but that is not for me (or us) to feel "ashamed" about.

I feel "ashamed" about what one Indian does to another Indian.
I cannot feel "ashamed" about what a Pakistani does to his fellow
pakistani or for that matter a Bangladeshi to his fellow Bangladeshi.
I can only feel sad (and sympathize) in that case.

Today morning (14th Dec 0725hrs GMT) I heard Bal Thackeray being interviewed
by the BBC (for Radio 4). Suprisingly I was agreeing with him. He said that
the muslims must make up their minds whether they are "Muslims in India"
or "Muslims of India". Yes we all want them to be "muslims of India".

To show how welcome they are, all we'll do is tear down a few mosques.
Then they'll really feel at home. We shall goad them over how their rich
brethren do nothing about their fellow suffering muslims in Somalia.
And if they do help we'll then say, "Oh! look how the muslims always help
each other!". You can't win, can you.

Lets imagine if these (ugh!) people actually exterminate the entire
muslim population in India (like the holocaust of the 40's), will they
then be satisfied ??. No, not at all.  A new war will then begin between
the so called upper and lower castes. If say only one caste survives,
then they will continue to fight too, between the North and the South. 

So whats the bottom line. 
Europe is headed towards a common market.
In the Asia-Pacific Vietnam, Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand, Singapore and
China are headed towards unprecedented economic growth.

In this world of cut-throat competition there are countries that are
surging forward. But a few will always be left behind. The few who spend
massive amount of energy  and effort arguing, killing and destroying 
instead of creating. These are what will be known as the real 
"third world of tomorrow" of eternal poverty and misery.

This is not an opinion (a pessimistic one you might say), but a fact of
life. If you don't beleive it then hang around for the next 50 or 100 
years and you shall see.


--
God is no longer REAL, he has been re-declared an INTEGER.
--
e-mail: Raj.Subramani@newcastle.ac.uk  | voice: (+44 91)
where : Dept. of Marine Technology     | work :  222 6000 X 6726 / 8220
        Newcastle upon Tyne NE1 7RU UK | home :  281 9991
--
all opinions expressed are solely le mien.
--
From: hardt@essex.ac.uk
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Roll call for Loyola Alumni......
Date: 20 Dec 92 18:43:46 GMT
Reply-To: hardt@essex.ac.uk ()
Organization: University of Essex, Colchester, UK

Hello Loyola Alumni !!  (is anyone out there?)

         ****     ****  *********  ********     *********     ***  ***
         *****   *****  ***        ***   ***    ***    ***    ***  ***
         *** ** ** ***  ******     ********     *********       ****
         ***  ***  ***  ***        ***   ***    ***    ***       **
         ***       ***  *********  ***    ***   ***     ***      **

            *****  *****    %%%
            *****  *****    %%                             *******
               ******       %    ****** ******   *******   *****
                ****             ***  ***  ***  **    **   **
            *****  *****         ***  ***  ***  **    **   *******
            *****  *****         ***       ***   *******        **
                                                            ******
                                                          ********
                                and wishing you
                           a very happy new year !!!

(Please contact me by e-mail  if you read this greeting)

Hardy Thomas (hardt@uk.ac.essex)
Xref: sparky soc.culture.indian:41341 soc.culture.pakistan:18451
From: janand@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Zombie Dude)
Subject: Re: Question on Periyar's ancestory
Organization: Oakland University, Rochester MI.
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 19:42:09 GMT

In article <kat.724632304@kehleyr> kat@doe.carleton.ca (Kathiravan Krishnamurthi) writes:
>In <1992Dec15.203130.10433@vela.acs.oakland.edu> janand@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Jayaraman Anand) writes:
>
>>In article <4f=Jx0u00UhWA6TV4k@andrew.cmu.edu> Ranjith Ravindiran Suresh <rs6x+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>>>>	Periyar was a thevidiya paiyyan. As simple as that. His mom
>>>>	was a whore.
>>> 
>>>>J Anand.
>>>
>>>That would make you a 'savage' of the first order. Where did you learn
>
>>	How many orders of 'savages' are there ?
>
>>>to deface one of the few Tamilians who sacrificed themselves FOR Tamils?
>
>>	U mean to say scarifice a few tamilians for popularity.
>
>>>Maanamun, mariyaathai illaatha thiruttuth thuroki! Your kind awaits you
>>>in hell....
>>>
>>>One day...one day....there will be a day for people like you.
>
>
>>>
>>>-thamilan
>>>
>>	mairu
>>>
>
>
>>J Anand.
>
>  thambi! sila payavalaththaan thiruththa mudiyum.
>

	Anna, adhu ungalukku purinjaa sari.

>Kathiravan

J Anand.

-- 
!!!!!!!!!%-----+++++=====/**##!!!!!!!!!!!!!/**##=====+++++-----%!!!!!!!!
When you don't know what to do, walk fast and look worried.
!!!!!!!!!%-----+++++=====/**##!!!!!!!!!!!!/**##=====+++++-----%!!!!!!!!!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.tamil