HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: qvortrup@inf.ethz.ch (Michael Qvortrup)
Subject: Re: Dilvish: Zelazny's other Fantasy
Organization: Dept. Informatik, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH), Zurich, CH
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 07:17:41 GMT

In article <STEINARB.93Jan6133416@eik.idt.unit.no> steinarb@idt.unit.no (Steinar Bang) writes:
>[...]
>I have always liked the Dilvish stories. Amber bored the hell out of
>me on my first try so I have stayed pretty much clear of that for the
>last 10 years or so...

I am getting curious. Could somebody please tell me where I can find
these stories? Are they novels or short stories?

Greetings,
--Mike

-- 
#include <std-disclm.h>--"... and there is a small flaw in my character."---
Real Life: Michael Christian Heide Qvortrup      A Dane         ETH, Zuerich
e-mail   : qvortrup@inf.ethz.ch                  abroad         Switzerland
Institut fuer wissenschaftliches Rechnen  /  Inst. of Scientific Computation
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig)
Subject: Re: Who killed SF???
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 07:12:40 GMT

SF was alive and well last time I looked.  If we're seeing 500 titles in
a year instead of 50, we shouldn't be surprised if 450 of them are crap
instead of 45.  I'd say that the best sf being written today is at least
as good as the best sf of previous decades.  (Strengths and styles change.
There's proportionally less good hard sf, for instance, because what passed
for good hard sf in years past wouldn't qualify today, in many cases.)

-----
Dani Zweig
dani@netcom.com

   'T is with our judgements as our watches, none
   Go alike, yet each believes his own
		--Alexander Pope
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: dstein@oak.math.ucla.edu (David Stein)
Subject: Re: City (Was:Re: John Woods Campbell)
Organization: UCLA Mathematics Department
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 93 09:01:22 GMT

Jim Mann writes:
>In article <1993Jan2.135330.12000@math.ucla.edu>  
 
>How does the term "human" NOT square with City. It is an 
>intensely human book, filled with human characters, and
>centered on human concerns (even if the frame story is
>from the point of view of the dogs).

  City shifts from centering on human reaction to change and challenge 
to centering on dog/robot/animal reaction to change and challenge.

  It was directly in the context of Raymond's definition of Campbell SF
that my question was formulated.  The term "human" certainly squares
with the book; but not when used within Raymond's definition.

 - David

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm not a native speaker of English, so I'm not sure what I wrote.
Flames will be ignored unless you post them in perfect Czech.
================================ - David (the metamathician) - ===
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: pciszek@nyx.cs.du.edu (Paul Ciszek)
Subject: Niven and Sexual Hangups
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 93 02:08:36 GMT

Someone has noted that, regardless of the number or sentience of the
genders involved, most of Niven's species have problems with sex and
reproduction.  Perhaps this is something that comes with the territory?
I mean, some folks would have us believe that human psychology is made
entirely of intricately woven sexual hangups; if they are right, then
if humans had no sexual hangups, they would have no psychology!  Any
race with intelligence evolved it because, for some reason, living as
a dumb animal just wasn't working anymore.  If intelligent beings 
could get laid without having to play head games, they would no longer
have any need for intelligence. ;-)

If you eat from the tree of Knowledge, you end up having to work for a
living and breeding isn't as much fun anymore.  Niven is not the first
writer to think of this.

Paul Ciszek                      When we are planning for posterity, we
                                 ought to remember that virtue is not
pciszek@nyx.cs.du.edu            hereditary.     --Thomas Paine
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: pduggan@world.std.com (Paul C Duggan)
Subject: Re: The Illuminatus trilogy
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 00:03:15 GMT

In article <1993Jan8.141454.23208@bnr.uk> agc@bmdhh286.bnr.ca (Alan Carter) writes:
>Apart from the one little idea of adding the calendar reform confusion,
>everything else in the FP conspiracy can be found in Illuminatus!!, which
>pre-dates FP by several years. In fact, FP is a severely restricted

Although Eco would disagree with this methodology, both are similar because
both draw on earlier source material. These sorts of concepts have been
around for ages. Eco takes apart the mind that would write/belive
Illumninatus!

>subset of Illuminatus!!. While Eco the great Professor of Literature
>may have been feted by the critics for his brilliance, Illuminatus!! was
>ignored, possibly because it was classified as SF, possibly because it
>was just too difficult for them. 

I really doubt that. Its because Illuminatus is poorly written and contains
to much of solely purient interest (IMHO). Eco has Something To Say that
is of relevance to rational people.
>
>Which does not alter the fact that Robert personally found FP more
>accessable that Illuminatus!!. Without wishing to put words in his
>mouth, perhaps that may be because he was looking for a conspiracy theory
>thriller, while Illuminatus!! contains many more complex themes, explored

If Illuminatus is not a conspiracy thriller, than *certainly* FP is not!

>century and later Illuminatus!! will serve as a source document for those 
>trying to understand a critical period in our species history, a feat that 
>most of the participants never seemed to manage.
>
If it did we'd all be in trouble. FP gets a much better handle on
fnord the problems and concerns and crisis of a whole lot of the modern
psyche.

paul duggan
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: lazarus@quack.sac.ca.us (Albert Sze-Wei Wang)
Subject: Getting novels published
Organization: The Duck Pond public unix: +1 408 249 9630, log in as 'guest'.
Distribution: usa
Date: 10 Jan 1993 08:12:40 UTC

Hi

	I'm not sure if this is the right place to pose this question, but
I was wondering if anyone knew how to get novels published once you've
written them.  I was wondering specifically if one sends a copy of the
manuscript to a publishing company, whether an individual has to be 
recognized established writer before he or she can actually submit a novel,
stuff like that.  Any input in this matter would be deeply appreciated.

Albert


-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------
	Miles sat quietly, absorbing this most mitigated triumph. 
Elena would have been safe, after all.
	But not happy.  Hunting hawks do not belong in cages, no
matter how much a man covets their grace, no matter how golden
the bars.  They are far more beautiful soaring free.  Heartbreakingly
beautiful.
	He sighed, and rose to go wrestle with his destiny.
				-From "The Warrior's Apprentice"
				 By Lois McMaster Bujold
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Albert Sze-Wei Wang                          lazarus@quack.sac.ca.us
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: frank@fnbc.com (Frank Mitchell)
Subject: Education and reading (was Re: Who killed SF???)
Organization: First National Bank Of Chicago, Chicago IL, USA
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 93 15:18:20 GMT

In article <1615@blue.cis.pitt.edu> seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu (Sea Wasp) writes:
> In article <76360@apple.apple.COM> chuq@Apple.COM (Crow's Friend Timmy)  
writes:
> >seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu (Sea Wasp) writes:
> >>	Schools don't make those kind of choices for you. Their influence
> >>on the choices of readers is going to be minimal.
> 
> >Not true at all. The school is where the skills are learned and the tastes
> >are cultivated. You either run into a teach that turns you on to books, or
> >you go through life without them. I got lucky. Too few do.
> 
> 	That's where I take issue with you. School had no influence on ME
> as far as reading went ...

For the most part, me neither.  More's the pity.

> ... It was not the school, but my parents, who taught me to read. 
> They were the ones who gave me that power. 
[Elaboration deleted]
> As long as parents use the schools as a legally-required babysitter
> service, they will be getting precisely the results one would expect.
> The schools can't be blamed when they are controlled for the most part
> by the people whose children are IN them.

Well, yes, but not all of us are lucky enough to have such parents.  (And peers  
have just as much -- if not more -- influence on kids.  Often contradictory.)   
SOMEBODY has to take up the slack, or at least make a heroic attempt.  In my  
case, the few teachers who tried managed to provide a few CARE packages for a  
starving mind.  (And this was private school.  Gods help the public schools.) 

And I suspect schools are not straitjacketed by parents as much as they are by  
bureaucracy and staff who also see schools as babysitters.

This is not to let parents off the hook.  But when even the backup systems are  
failing, the ship is doomed.

--
Frank Mitchell,	Business Systems Analyst, First National Bank of Chicago
email:frank@fnbc.com (NeXTmail)

"'I am that merry wanderer of the night'?  I am that giggling, dangerous,  
totally bloody psychotic menace to life and limb, more like it."
-- Peaseblossom, _Sandman_ #19
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: ecl@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (Evelyn C. Leeper)
Subject: Hugo Nominations (my suggestions)
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 15:32:03 GMT

Since the Hugo nominations are due in a couple of months, I thought I'd
post what I think are good choices.  If other people have works they
want to recommend, it might help people who haven't been keeping
lists all year.

Novels (>40000 words):
	Gore Vidal -- LIVE FROM GOLGOTHA
	Connie Willis -- DOOMSDAY BOOK
	Jane Yolen -- BRIAR ROSE

Novellas (17,500-40,000 words):
	Bradley Denton -- "The Territory" (F&SF, July)

Novelettes (7500-17,500 words):
	Pat Cadigan -- "No Prisoners" (ALTERNATE KENNEDYS)
	Donna Farley -- "The Passing of the Eclipse" (UNIVERSE 2)
	Nancy Kress -- "Eoghan" (ALTERNATE KENNEDYS)
	W. M. Shockley - "A Father's Gift" (IASFM, April)
	Robert Silverberg -- "Looking for the Fountain" (WMHB4: AA; IASFM May)

Short Stories (<7500 words):
	Pat Cadigan -- "50 Ways to Improve Your Orgasm" (IASFM, April)
	Kristine Kathryn Rusch -- "The Best and the Brightest"
		(ALTERNATE KENNEDYS)
	Kathe Koja -- "By the Mirror of My Youth" (UNIVERSE 2)
	Pat Murphy -- "Going Through Changes" (F&SF, April)
	Lawrence Watt-Evans -- "Truth, Justice, and the American Way"
		(ALTERNATE PRESIDENTS)
	Connie Willis - "Even the Queen" (IASFM, April)

Dramatic Presentation:
	"Fool's Fire" (PBS)
	PRELUDE TO A KISS
	SHADOWS AND FOG
	ZENTROPA

(I know I have six short stories listed.  I haven't done my final
paring-down and I have a tie for the last two or three places.  I would
note that even of my novels, two are *short* novels.  As I've been
saying, I think I like short fiction better than longer works.  And
women authors seem to be taking over the high end of the field, IMHO.)

Evelyn C. Leeper  |  +1 908 957 2070  |  att!mtgzy!ecl or  ecl@mtgzy.att.com
--
"To make the point [that homosexuals hamper military effectiveness] I'd
say that you would have to sift through your military history till you
find an instance in which failure has been attributed to the presence
of homosexuals on the losing side.  I'm not aware of any such case in
the past 2500 years, but I'd be interested to hear what you find."
-Nathan Engle
From: HADCRJAM@admin.uh.edu (MILLER, JIMMY A.)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: The Gripping Hand By Larry Niven And Jerry Pournelle
Date: 11 Jan 93 20:50:04 GMT
Organization: University of Houston Administrative Computing
NNTP-Posting-Host: uhad2.admin.uh.edu
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.20

In <1993Jan11.190715.9134@netcom.com> solovay@netcom.com writes:

> In article <726713445.AA04747@tdkt.kksys.com> David.Dyer-bennet@f0.n727.z0.tdkt.kksys.com (David Dyer-bennet) writes:
> > Al> My problem with Niven/Pournelle, as
> > Al> evidenced in LUCIFER'S HAMMER and MOTE IN
> > Al> GOD'S EYE, is that they always manage to torture or torture/murder women
> >in
> > Al> these books with a little too much loving
> > Al> detail.
> >
> >Even after you mention it, I can't remeber one single example in the
> >books you mention.  What woman dies, at all, in Mote?  Let alone at
> >all graphically.
> 
> Well, there's the Motie engineer on board the MacArthur... she
> *slowly* wastes away, howling, losing fur in patches... and dies alone
> and unmourned. And she was female at the time.
> 
> Was that it?

  I personally, forgot that one.  Concentrating on the humans again.  I do 
recall (finally) a woman murdered by a wacko in the early going of _Hammer_.
I don't recall much detail given to the actual deed (other than a notation
that it was pretty awful--I will check tonight).  Also in _Mote_, Sally's
friend just...disappears.  No doubt dead and/or tortured, but they never say
another word about it.

  I think the original poster has a chip on her shoulder.  Were is her concern
for the dead middies of _Mote_?  The unamed male whose head was in the space-
suit?  The slaughtered National Guardsmen in _Footfall_?  The dead security
guard in _Dream Park_?  The reporter in _Footfall_?  The engineer who died in
the live steam in _Hammer_?  The fellow dying from mustard gas in _Hammer_?

  Niven/Pournelle are secretly man-haters!  Isn't it obvious?

  Bloody hell.  When it come to death, these guys are equal-opportunity all the
way.


semper fi,

Jammer Jim Miller 
Texas A&M University '89 and '91
********************************************************************************
* Speak for my employers?  They don't even know I exist!		       *
*"Become one with the Student Billing System. *BE* the Student Billing System."*
* "Power finds its way to those who take a stand.  Stand up, Ordinary Man."    *
*      ---Rik Emmet, Gil Moore, Mike Levine: Triumph 		               *
********************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: gdg019@cch.coventry.ac.uk (Ridley McIntyre)
Subject: Re: Tad Williams, David Brrin - Upcoming...?
Organization: Coventry Metropol Tactical Division, UK
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 08:44:10 GMT

In article <H.eg.rl5ksZ5LrLI@elfhaven.ersys.edmonton.ab.ca> mforget@elfhaven.ersys.edmonton.ab.ca writes:
>Hi!
>
>I have just started reading the Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn series by Tad
>Williams, and I was wondering if anyone knew the name of the third volume
>and when it will be released?

It will be called To Green Angel Tower and should be out by March at last
count. He handed in the manuscript and it ran to 1600 pages, by the way...

Ridley.
-- 
 ____ *     |  | Ridley McIntyre  -  gdg019@cck.cov.ac.uk |   EARTH CALLING    |
|         __|  | Ronin Ironpig - On a Flowery Space Trip! |       ANGELA       |
|     |  |  |  | "KAAAANEDAAAAA!!!"  ... "TETSUOOOOOO!!!" |  "For The Coming   |
|     |  |__|  | -    script for last 10 minutes of AKIRA |  Of Angels" - '93  |
Xref: sparky rec.arts.sf.written:17073 rec.arts.sf.science:3957 sci.physics:22194 sci.skeptic:22107
From: gerry@cmu.edu (Gerry Roston)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,rec.arts.sf.science,sci.physics,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Davis Mechanics (was Re: John Woods Campbell)
Date: 7 Jan 93 00:37:36 GMT
Article-I.D.: onion.GERRY.93Jan6193736
Reply-To: gerry@cmu.edu (Gerry Roston)
Organization: Field Robotics Center, CMU

In article <18342@bcars664.bnr.ca> hwt@bcarh11a.BNR.CA (Henry Troup) writes:

   This is one I can't figure out.  Consider a steel bar, in free space, a
   long way from anywhere, one light-year long.  place a large rocket
   against one end, and turn it on.  Let it run for 364 days.  Turn it off.
   What has happened?  Try it again with an incompressible rod - if the rod
   moves, the message reached the far end faster than light.  If the rod
   doesn't move, where'd the momentum go?

Stupid though experiment.. good for uneducated undergrads...

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS AN INCOMPRESSIBLE BAR.

--
Gerry Roston (gerry@cmu.edu)    | There never did, there never will, and
Field Robotics Center,          | there never can exist a parliment, or any
Carnegie Mellon University      | description of men, or any generation of
Pittsburgh, PA, 15213           | men, in any country, possessed of the right
(412) 268-3856                  | or the power of binding and controlling
                                | posterity to the `end of time,' or of
The opinions expressed are mine | commanding for ever how the world shall be
and do not reflect the official | governed, or who shall govern it...
position of CMU, FRC, RedZone,  | -Every age and generation must be as free
or any other organization.      | to act for itself, in all cases, as the
                                | ages and generations which preceeded it.
                                | Thomas Paine
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: dstein@oak.math.ucla.edu (David Stein)
Subject: Re: John Woods Campbell
Organization: UCLA Mathematics Department
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 93 15:59:28 GMT

David Dyer-bennet writes:
 
>Um, this turns out not to be the case.  You've expressed a number of
>opinions about the effects of JW Campbell on the SF field which are,
>in fact, at odds with all the major critics and historians of the
>field.  

  Quote me, or forever hold your peace.

 - David

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm not a native speaker of English, so I'm not sure what I wrote.
Flames will be ignored unless you post them in perfect Czech.
================================ - David (the metamathician) - ===
Xref: sparky rec.arts.sf.written:17312 alt.config:8346
From: chuahl@ocf.berkeley.edu (Chua HakLien)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,alt.config
Subject: Re: Start alt.fantasy-- was Who killed SF?
Date: 9 Jan 1993 08:02:35 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
NNTP-Posting-Host: sandstorm.berkeley.edu


[ How do we define SF and how do we define fantasy.. ]

While it's true that it's hard to make a complete seperation of the two,
it's also true that in 99% of the discussions{ in r.a.sf.written, it's easy
to see which of the two we're talking about. Anthony's Xanth and Incarnations,
, Jordan, Williams, Eddings, TSR, Card's Alvin Maker series, Barker's 
Weaveworld etc all fall into the fantasy category, for example.

Also take note that St Martin's Press seperates the two by having both
_The_Year's_Best_Science_Fiction_  and _The_Year's_Best_Fantasy_
And_Horror_ collections. Since some people still seem to be dead-set against
fantasy in this group, while most fantasy readers aren't too interested
about SF in the first place, I think that having such a group isn't such a
bad idea.

Chua
+==+
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig)
Subject: Re: Heinlein - Politically correct?
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 17:56:14 GMT

Before embarking too enthusiastically on this topic, please read the FAQ.
It may save you the trouble of repeating history.

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: abl@cybill.inesc.pt (Antonio Leal)
Subject: Re: Heinlein - Politically correct?
Organization: INESC - Inst. Eng. Sistemas e Computadores, LISBOA. PORTUGAL.
	<1992Dec24.180756.24259@genie.slhs.udel.edu>
	<1ik53bINNjkj@nz12.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de>
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 20:18:42 GMT

ig25@fg70.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de (Thomas Koenig) writes:

> As far as PC goes:  Where are the women in Starship Troopers?  Were they
> ALL unfit for infantry duty, so that not a single one could make it into
> a base camp of 10000 recruits?  Sounds a bit suspect to me...

They're piloting (and commanding) the starships.  They're better at it
than the men ...  Also, the Mobile Infantry is an everybody-fights outfit
(no cooks, no nurses, no paper-pushers).  Plenty of men around to get
shot at.  Heinlein didn't believe in making women expendable.  The U.S.
(or any other state's) armed forces don't either, thirty years after the
book was written.  Not yet, anyway.  We'll probably achieve that acme of
civilization one of these days.

[Haldeman's Forever War did have mixed outfits;  then, over the centuries,
first homosexuality became the moral standard, and then Earth became the
province of a single "perfect" genotype, cloned a million fold.  That's
probably an object lesson ;-]

> Also, try reading the "History and Moral Philosophy" lessons with a view
> to current events in Yugoslavia, and tell me wether "ethnic cleansing"
> would be justified under these principles.

Any point in particular ?  I've read ST twice over twenty years (in two
different languages) so I may be missing something (but I don't mind
giving it a third shot).  Mostly I remember it saying "You're responsible"
and "Rights don't grow in trees" (paraphrase, not a quote).  It might
also have said it's unwise for a people to let themselves do whatever
they want, which pretty much sums up the current mess.

--
Antonio B. Leal		| IST / INESC
+351.1.310 0300		| R. Alves Redol 9, 1000 Lisboa
abl@inesc.pt		| Portugal
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: naam@cecer.army.mil (Ramez Naam)
Subject: Re: Acronyms in _Hyperion_
Organization: US Army Corps of Engineers Construction Engineering Research Labs
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 22:48:22 GMT

jvessey@husc10.harvard.edu (Jonathan Vessey) writes:


>On a somewhat related note (though one with an answer that's probably easy
>to come up with), what exactly was the Hegira? I think I missed were they
>explained it, but it seemed an important historical event. Forgive me if it's
>really obvious, but I read the books at 2 am - 4 am and sort of fogged out
>some of the lesser details at times. Thanks for any answers.

The Hegira was the human departure from earth and colonization of the 
planets that became the WorldWeb.  This was triggered by the Kiev
Team's creation of a runaway black hole which fell to the earth's
core and began slowly destroying the planet.

Note that the Hegira was accomplished _before_ farcasters were
developed.

--
Ramez Naam
naam@terra.cecer.army.mil
From: ojvind@chagall.cns.caltech.edu (Ojvind Bernander)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Print runs of magazines
Date: 4 Jan 1993 23:36:33 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology
NNTP-Posting-Host: chagall.cns.caltech.edu

Can anyone help me fill in the gaps?  Send email to me at
ojvind@cns.caltech.edu.
If I get enough answers I'll post the results.

Zine		Print run	Circulation
----		---------	-----------
Aboriginal	-		-
Amazing		-		-
Analog		107,000		78,000
Asimov's	103,000		72,000
MF&SF		-		-
Pulphouse	-		-
Tomorrow	-		-
SF Age		-		-
Weird Tales	-		-
From: chuq@Apple.COM (Crow's Friend Timmy)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Who killed SF???
Date: 8 Jan 93 16:43:17 GMT
Organization: Next Thursday A.D.

robichau@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov (Paul Robichaux) writes:

>>TSR puts out three books a month, in a field that publishes 1,100 titles a
>>year or more. You can't exactly call them a major force in the market.

>However, in most of the mass-market book chains (Walden, B. Dalton,
>Bookstar, etc.) TSR books, along with the Star Trek series and a few
>other well-known offenders, get shelf space in proportion to their
>sales.

Of course, that's because the TSR books sell. 

Gosh. Stores selling stuff that sells? What a horrible concept.


-- 
            Chuq "IMHO" Von Rospach, ESD Support & Training (DAL/AUX)
                      Member, SFWA =+= Editor, OtherRealms
                chuq@apple.com | GEnie: MAC.BIGOT | ALink:CHUQ 

          I'm history! No! I'm mythology! Whatever, I'm outta here!