HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: buckmr@vccsouth29.its.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
Subject: Re: Colorado Amendment
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 03:11:02 GMT

jarvis@psych.toronto.edu (Brian Jarvis) writes:

>Does anyone have handy the *exact* wording of the proposed amendment to
>the constitution of Colorado?  I'm aware of the gist of it and have talked
>about it extensively with friends there, but I haven't yet seen the
>precise wording of the proposed statement.  A copy of the text would be
>greatly appreciated.

This is in /pub/QRD/qrd/text/oca-initiative on nifty.andrew.cmu.edu:


        This state shall not recognize any categorical provision such as
``sexual preference,'' and similar phrases that includes homosexuality,
pedophilia, sadism or masochism.  Quotas, minority status, affirmative
action, or any similar concepts, shall not apply to these forms of
conduct, nor shall government promote these behaviors.

        State, regional, local governments and their properties and monies
shall not be used to promote, encourage or facilitate homosexuality,
pedophilia, sadism or masochism.

        State, regional and local governments and their departments,
agencies and other entities, including specifically the State Department
of Higher Education and the public schools, shall assist in setting a
standard for Oregon's youth that recognizes homosexuality, pedophilia,
sadism and masochism as abnormal, wrong, unnatural, and perverse and that
these behaviors are to be discouraged and avoided.

        It shall be considered that it is the intent of the people in
enacting this section that if any part thereof is held unconstitutional,
the remaining parts shall be held in force.

-- 
RON BUCKMIRE, 11 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735 ``D.C., April 25 1993''
uunet!rpi.edu!buckmr||buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet||buckmr@rpi.edu||+1 518 276 8910
Repeat after me: "Mel Gibson is a Catholic Fundie from Hell!"
Repeat after me: "Mel Gibson is a Catholic Fundie from Hell!"
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Snaps (no, not *that* kind, Elizabeth) (was Re: New queer terminology) (was Re: The media, again)
Date: 17 Aug 1992 11:37:56 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <l8tqncINNjnc@mizar.usc.edu> 
adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
...
> > queer is a philosophy - we have our own literature, our own literary
> >   analysis, our own political understanding.
>
> Heavens.  Queerdom strikes me as little more than a '90s take
> on camp, but without understanding it.  Queerdom is singularly
> humorless and, what's worse, history- and traditionless.  Do the
> queers who snap their fingers in unison rather than applaud know 
> what they're doing?  (Hint: Kim Novak.  Pyewacket.)

I would -- hell, *will* -- argue that the Queer style Nelson 
described is a smug, jokey take-off on Hollywood's representations 
of beatniks in 1950s movies.  It's obvious in the clothing Queers 
wear, in their characteristically haughty and bored expressions,
and in their division of the world into the hip and everyone else.
But, and this is what disturbs me so much about them, Queers don't
seem to understand what they're doing.  Take the finger snaps.
Yes, it's *really* funny when a large group of people snap rather
than applaud their approval of a speaker or performer.  But do 
Queers know *why* they're snapping?  Where it comes from?  At
least when *I* was young and I and my friends did this at high
school assemblies (back in the early 1970s), we knew what we were
doing.  

So where do the snaps come from?  From the movie version of _Bell
Book and Candle_ (1958), starring Kim Novak as a beatnik/witch 
whose familiar is a cat named Pyewacket.  Novak falls in love 
with a mortal, played by Jack Lemmon.  Several scenes take place
at a club frequented by beatnik/witches and warlocks, and I bet 
you'd have a hard time distinguishing the club in the film from
real-life Queer hangouts today.  The snaps?  That's what the
beatniks do instead of applauding the acts at the club.  The
snaps are *very* funny and recur throughout the film.

As I intimated before, Queers have appropriated some of the
outward show of camp, but without any understanding or 
humor. 

Arne
From: amz@cis.ohio-state.edu (Arnold M Zwicky)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: posting from dino
Summary: the jack-off party
Date: 19 Aug 92 17:14:43 GMT
Followup-To: soc.motss
Organization: out in linguistics
Originator: amz@iguana.cis.ohio-state.edu

[martin prime has already posted dean allemang's tale of mud
wrestling.  here, in response to numerous requests, is the jack-off
party story.  remember that this - sigh - is not me, but
dean@idsia.uu.ch.]

Gay men and impersonal sex [sent monday 4 may 1992]

I couldn't help but think of this topic while at an interesting
party in Amsterdam last week. The party was a Jack-off party, a
sort of safe-sex event held every two weeks, and supported,
surprisingly, by the Dutch government.

The event is really a safe-sex orgy - some 140 men, each pays his
10 guilders (about $6) for admission, newcomers are briefed at the
door [are late-comers de-briefed? whispers some silly voice in my
head] about what is and is not allowed, and is given a coat hanger
and a claim check.  Keep your shoes on, they recommend, in case
anyone breaks a glass on the floor.  Besides, it provides a place
to keep your claim check, with which you can also order drinks.

At first, I was more fascinated academically with the sociology of the
event than physically with the event itself - `cruising' takes on a
much more immediate urgency - not `might this man have sex with me
tonight?', but `might he have sex with me - NOW!'.  As the evening
progressed, my interests changed.  I found it interesting to ask names
of anyone with whom I spent a considerable amount of time, or
connected particularly well with (so much for anonymous sex!) -
except that I semed to keep getting Germans (who I was speaking
English to, until I learned that they weren't Dutch).  Funny, all
the Germans were named Hans.  I was the only American - I guess
all Americans are named Dean.  Like James Dean.

I must confess that I thoroughly enjoyed the evening - especially
a kid named Jose', who did not look at all Hispanic (nor did he
look Spanish).  Afterwards, I went to a more ordinary bar to meet
up with FJ!! (but we missed Martin - crowds are like that) - it
was here that I realized that the cruising method at the party was
not really so different - after all, all the bars in Amsterdam
have darkrooms.  I prefer the lightroom effect at the party -
the visual thrill of watching and being watched is great fun.  Not
only is it not impolite to watch, it is even encouraged - that is
why most people were there - because they like to watch or
be watched.  Jose' and I got quite an audience (as did Hans and
I).

love,

Dean    "let's talk about sex" - title of a popular rap song,
         which was played to great effect at the party
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Robert Bernardo (1952-1992)
Date: 18 Aug 92 08:04:03 GMT
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

In article <92230.231253IO81409@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> IO81409@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (Ailsa N.T. Murphy) writes:
>damn.  i'm babbling.  i'm sorry.  goddammitall, IT ISN'T FAIR!

don't be sorry - your "babbling" is a very effective mode of expression.

Me, I have no idea what to say.
-- 
                __
nelson@reed.edu \/              Death needs time for what it kills to grow in
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: buckmr@rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
Subject: THE LIVING END: NuArt Theatre Sat 8/22
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 01:51:31 -0400
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------- Blind-Carbon-Copy

To: la-motss@pompei.usc.edu
cc: gaynet@athena.mit.edu, bisexu-l@brownvm.brown.edu
Subject: THE LIVING END: NuArt Theatre Sat 8/22
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 01:51:31 -0400
From: Ron Buckmire <buckmr>


Well, if anyone is interested, I'm trying to get a bunch of people together
to go see the new ``irresponsible movie by Gregg Araki'' called THE LIVING
END at the NuArt theatre on Saturday night/afternoon. Check the LA Weekly
for showtimes, then call 310-479-7037 and leave a message for my boyfriend,
Dean. I won't have access to my email account after 3pm EDT FRiday. I'm 
arriving in LA 1053pm Friday.

THE LIVING END has been described as ``an HIV+ "Thelma and Louise"''.
Should/Could be lots of fun...

See ya there!
- ---
RON BUCKMIRE
Fundraising Committee for the Procurement of a mesh tank-top for LL Cool J
11 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735
uunet!rpi.edu!buckmr||buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet||buckmr@rpi.edu||+1 518 276 8910

------- End of Blind-Carbon-Copy
From: roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: redefining masculinity
Date: 17 Aug 92 19:03:49 GMT
Reply-To: roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips)
Organization: Quantime Ltd, London (software for market research)

In article <l8ualaINNl84@mizar.usc.edu>,
adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
> I
> mentioned having found a tape of myself recorded when I was 10 or
> 11 and being struck by what a faggotty voice I had even that early.

Aged about 8, I heard a tape of my own voice,
and was struck by how it sounded like a *girl*,
when all I was trying to do was enunciate *properly*.

> Why is it that I think that's a bad thing?  For it's clear that 
> somewhere deep down inside I *do* think it's a bad thing.

Aged about 13, I began making a conscious effort to roughen my voice,
to slur my speech and to adopt a slovenly accent.
I was becoming too afraid of my voice giving me away.

(I also affected something between a swagger and a slouch (a swouch?),
after one girl asked me how I managed to walk
with one foot *exactly* in front of the other,
and another pointed out how bouncily I walked.)

> In fact,
> if there's one thing I could change about myself, I think it would
> be my voice.

I'd like to change my voice, too,
but now I'd like it to be higher, more vibrant,
better projected, and better enunciated.
My lips and tongue have got into lazy habits;
my consonants are sludge.

> ... but the mere fact that it sometimes occurs to me that I would
> want to change it is worrisome.

I know what you mean.
My reasons are different, though:
what I want is to undo the (perceived *) damage I inflicted
in a misguided attempt to pass.

(*) Probably, I'd've ended up speaking this badly anyway,
but the fact of my deliberate sabotage is something I'll always regret.

[My screen background today is tiled with glasses,
through which Arne stares at me balefully.
I wonder what his voice sounds like.]
-- 
Roger Phillips                            roger@quantime.co.uk
"To my surprise I find out I have a great imagination." -- Ivana Trump
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton)
Subject: Re: Introduction
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 04:30:37 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

I replied to this in an earlier posting which I later canceled.  I hope it
didn't make it out of Netcom.  Anyway, 

In article <1992Aug19.022506.22041@wam.umd.edu> lovegod@wam.umd.edu (Lovegod) 
writes:
>
>Anyway, I should have seen it coming.  I'm a lot younger than most of you and  
>it's quite obvious 

This would have been a good place to end the sentence.

>that we may not have anything else in common but Cole Porter  
>and having sex with other guys.  And the most horrible thing about it is that 
>a lot of my older counterparts don't see fit to bridge the gap, or at least 
>meet construction halfway.  It's really very frightening.

Is it possible that they tried but felt that their time would be better
spend on other things, on more educable people?  You haven't shown a lot of
patience or understanding in some of your recent posts, and you do seem
rather full of yourself - another way to say that you're lacking
perspective. 

>I am the future.  The future of men, the future of African-Americans, the  
>future of homosexuality.  You have the choice between reaching out to me or  
>ignoring me.  Either way, I'll survive ... you can believe that.

I'd prefer to think that people like John Dorrance and Elf Sternberg are
the wave of the future. 

>Arne, all I can say is that I hope you are not as miserable as you seem to 
>be.  No one deserves that much misery -- then again I have no idea what 
>you've done in your life.

Somehow I doubt the sincerity of your sorrow, but in any case Arne has
never struck me as being miserable. 

-- 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Hamilton   jfh@netcom.com   P. O. Box 281107   SF, CA   94128-1107
From: randyc@autodesk.com (Randy Clark)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Presumption
Keywords: semantics
Date: 19 Aug 92 01:42:09 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Autodesk, Inc., Sausalito, CA


Tim,

In article <1992Aug18.072312.18103@amhux2.amherst.edu> twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:
>In article <17472@autodesk.COM> randyc@autodesk.com (Randy Clark) writes:
>
>>	We're talking about labels -- as we so often
>>	do -- and labels are *always* going to be imprecise.
>>	Words are always imprecise, compared to reality ...
>>	especially the reality of people's behavior.
>
>This is true enough, but it assumes that the labels in question are
>meant to describe the *whole* of the one being labeled.

	It assumes no such thing -- nor do I believe that
	a label can encompass the thing it labels; I was
	trying to convey exactly the opposite!

	I meant exactly what I said (that is, as exactly
	as I can say it :-) ).

>Or, at least, it assumes that labels are usually interpreted as such.
>The latter may indeed be true, but if is not, then there is nothing
>inherently imprecise about labeling.

	Please reread the third line of my quote.
	I think you're trying to make me say something far
	more complicated than I was attempting.

	There is something inherently imprecise about *all*
	language.

	Here we have reality.  Here we have language, which
	is/can be a model of reality.  The two are not the
	same.

	I suppose I'm being pedantic here, but the context
	(if you'll recall, and for those who don't remember
	the context of this discussion) was a shouting match
	about 'straight' vs. 'bisexual' as appropriate labels,
	and I was trying to point out that *that* discussion
	was itself a rather pedantic exercise.  Human sexuality
	-- like other aspects of our behavior -- is too
	complex to fit into 2, 3, ... n categories.

	I think those in the original discussion know that,
	and were being stubborn.  :-)

	-R


--
There is a sad gaiety in our love, and though we have more wit
than Sunday lovers by the water's edge, our wit attracts misfortune.
							-- Genet
Randy Clark			{}!autodesk.com!randyc
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: brent@syacus.acus.oz.au (Brent Davies)
Subject: Re: Discipl(in)e
Organization: Australian Centre for Unisys Software, Melbourne
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 01:57:00 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.043546.4966@microsoft.com> georgere@microsoft.com (George V. Reilly) writes:

>Oops, I've defied Grandmama and her deputy.  That deserves
>punishment---from both of them.  I'm just asking for it, amn't I.

George, you've left the "i" out of "deified".  I'm afraid you may be in for
an *extra* severe treatment (you lucky boy).

--Brent
From: wood@siemens.com. (Jim Wood)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Responses to people dying
Date: 21 Aug 92 14:43:01 GMT

anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:

>At any rate, a good condidate date for ceremonially
>remembering Rob would be either March 9 (birthday) or August
>13 (deathday).

I really like the idea of Rob Bernardo's birthday, March 9.
It would mean a lot to him.

I would prefer birthday to deathday, because birth implies
something quite a bit more positive and uplifting than death.

>A kind of middle course might be to designate a certain day
>(Rob's birthday seems an obvious choice) on which the cohort
>would devote special energy to remembering not only Rob, but
>every LGB person whose loss has affected them deeply.

I like this idea very much, a gesture of devoting a whole day
to remembering those we've loved and lost.

--
Jim Wood [jwood@siemens.siemens.com] (609) 734-3643
"Rise up on the wings of eagles, and two step among the stars.
 You are not forgotten.  Your smile will echo forever."
   -- Ryerson Schwark, to my friend Rob Bernardo.
From: gklein@uoft02.utoledo.edu (Gary Klein, bear at heart)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Powell's Bookstore
Date: 12 Aug 92 16:22:54 EST
Followup-To: soc.motss
Organization: Carlson Library, Univ of Toledo

In article <1992Aug8.134553.29185@cis.ohio-state.edu>, 
   amz@iguana.cis.ohio-state.edu (Arnold M Zwicky) writes:
... 
> nelson, this is what awaits you if you stay on the path you are now on.
... 
> maybe you should stick to sex.
> 
> arnold (wondering how to cram the latest shipment of reference
>          grammars of exotic languages into his study, not sure
>          he can handle something that big)

     True sign of a size queen:
Grabbing onto something that is too big to handle!
-- 

                                               "Librarian, Leather bound"
Gary Klein,   Business Librarian,  (Univ of Toledo)           * * * * 
PO Box 12650                  Toledo OH  43606-0250            *   *   
(w): 419-537-2629      fac2813@uoft01                            *   
(h): 419-243-2740      fac2813@uoft01.utoledo.edu         B4 t+ w- g s+ k
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas)
Subject: RE: Whizzzzzzz ( was Re: Introduction)
Organization: Gordian; Costa Mesa, CA
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 22:58:45 GMT

In article <18AUG92.18071317@enh.nist.gov>, aberson@enh.nist.gov writes:
> In a previous article, adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) wrote:
> >I was talking about my metaphorical central heating.  I'd
> >love to have refrigerated air conditioning installed in
> >my body.  It is too darn hot.

  Yes, yes, yes! My AC has been having a wretched time keeping the
house at a comfortable tempature to sleep in. 

> Maybe you could coo with your baby tonight, or possibly pitch some woo with
> your baby tonight...

  Bzzt. Too hot. How can you screw in heat like this?
 
> Yuck, it sounds *beastly*.  It never gets that hot here.  Have no fear, it
> looks like Thursday may be cooler there for you.  Where are you, though?
> LAX is only 75F at 3pm Pacific time.

  He's at Civic Center. It is a few degrees cooler today than Saturday
and Sunday (arghhhhh!).
 
> Sim, really thinking tropical, hoping to go to San Juan or Barbados tomorrow
> to chase after Andrew.

  Why don't you come and chase *our* little numbers? There sure have been
enough of them this year. 

		Mike (who suspects that Sim might be trying to make
		      fun of us, but is *certain* that he'd have the
		      good taste to not make fun of our *horrible*
		      *heatwave* from *hell*)
From: drogers@riacs.edu (David Christopher Rogers)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Redefining masculinity
Date: 19 Aug 92 16:17:21 GMT
Organization: RIACS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Originator: drogers@solstice.riacs.edu

[Mr. Sarver says:]

    >>3.  "If more gays acted like normal people, I don't think that society
    >>     would have such a problem with it".

That's why I work hard to export the best of our differences back to
the straight world.  Things like a more inclusive definition of family,
tolerance for others, and less rigid sex and gender roles.  

Once normal people start acting that way, then more gay people will truly
be acting like "normal people", and society won't have such a problem
with us.

No, I'm not joking here... the above statement is true at its core,
though my interpretation was clearly not what the author intended.

David Christopher Rogers
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Gay Homophobia (was Re: Too straight looking to be gay???) (was re: UNGAY GAY)
Date: 18 Aug 92 21:30:13 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison


In article <vanyel.714159911@camelot>
vanyel@camelot.bradley.edu (Alan Williams) writes:

>I've been following this thread with more than a small degree of disgust.

>My question: What about those of use who just *are*?

Alan, can you provide a little more than that to go on?  One
can't tell what disgusts you -- could be a number of things
-- or why, etc.  If you don't provide that, about all a
person can say is: OK.

On the second point, since we *all* "just are," I suppose you
mean "just are" as opposed to "are <one thing or another>",
but I haven't the foggiest notion about <thing>.

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: emcmanus@gr.osf.org (Eamonn McManus)
Subject: Re: RNC: Buchanan's speech
Organization: Open Software Foundation Research Institute, Grenoble
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 14:10:52 GMT

jcav@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>Buchanan smiled his horrifying Irish Catholic smile.  The audience roared
>with laughter.  I felt like I was going to throw up.

Normally it doesn't bother me if people say Irish when they mean
Irish-American.  But here I really must protest.  While in Ireland we
have our fair share of fascist arch-Catholics, none of them comes
anywhere near Buchanan either in polished hypocrisy or in dangerous
power.  There's nobody Irish that is as horrifying as Buchanan.

,
Eamonn
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Rob Bernardo (Responses to people dying)
Date: 19 Aug 92 22:22:56 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Aug19.222256.14441
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1992Aug19.195801.13525@riacs.edu> drogers@riacs.edu (David Christopher Rogers) writes:
>- Realizing I should have got that damn .GIF file of him from
>  spdcc.com before he had them pulled

I put them back this week, David.  I suppose that's flouting Rob's
request to pull them earlier this year, but I thought that these would
be additional memorials, since they capture him in all his Rob-ery.
I didn't want to leave motss without his pictures; words and memory
can only do so much.

Just look at rob_bernardo.and.oriana.gif, which is a magnificent
picture.  It was submitted to me--I don't recall who snapped it and
scanned  it, but it's not only technically wonderful, it's also
the quintessential Rob, kissing his horse, Oriana.

Before I left for work today, I rummaged through my pile of photographs
for those of Rob; I'm going to rescan a few now that I have equipment
which will do him justice.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer