HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sandell@chowning.CNMAT.Berkeley.EDU (Gregory J. Sandell)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Celtic Music from Spinal Tap's "Stonehenge"
Date: 4 Jan 1993 00:44:41 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: chowning.cnmat.berkeley.edu

In article <1993Jan2.084947.14560@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>  
pciszek@nyx.cs.du.edu (Paul Ciszek) writes:
> My family rented "This is Spinal Tap" recently, and my brother thought
> that the folk piece that Tap played during the "dancing druids" scene
> (where an 18-inch stonehenge is in danger of being trampled by dwarves)
> sounded familiar.  Does anyone recognize it as a traditional piece, or
> one written by a known Celtic artist?
> 

This doesn't answer your question, but here's a related point you may be  
interested in.  On New Year's Eve in the US (ie a few days ago), a new  
Spinal Tap "movie" was shown on TV.  This was made for TV and I think  
directed by the same director as the original movie (Rob Reiner).  Rob  
Reiner was actually in it in any case.  This was only an hour long and not  
nearly as good as the original...although one funny moment was when they  
performed their song "Break With the Wind", there was an offstage fan  
blowing onto the stage, in front of which Derek Smalls stood as he played  
his bass, the very picture of bogus heavy-metal heroism (ie looking like a  
warrior standing on a cliff).

Related to your question, part of what they wanted to do was to go back  
and get the Stonehenge scene "right."  This time they got the proportions  
of the stones right, but it turns out this time, they forgot to take into  
account the size of the doors to the auditorium, and as the band played on  
stage, waiting for the stones to descend, we saw shots of the crew trying  
over and over again to ram the stones through the door (they eventually  
tried sawing them down to size).  So this time the dwarves danced around  
nothing rather than a too-small Stonehenge.

They once again played an Irish or Scottish reel for the dancing, but I  
didn't recognize it, or remember what the tune in the movie was.
--
Greg Sandell
Research Fellow, Center for New Music and Audio Technologies (CNMAT)
sandell@cnmat.cnmat.berkeley.edu
From: eamon@netcom.com (Charles E Taggart)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Economist Article On Irish Election
Summary: Aspiration seems to be OK with UUP
Date: 22 Dec 92 09:02:39 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

Maeve Brennan writes:
>So perhaps the PD idea of changing the tone of articles 2 & 3 to an
>aspiration would be agreeable to both communities?

I remember reading recently that one of the UUP representatives in the last
talks (can't remember which one) was quoted as saying that for the Irish
constitution to express an aspiration was "perfectly reasonable".  This
was after Paisley and the other DUP representative sent off to sulk.
,
Eamon
-- 
 C. E. Taggart / eamon@netcom.com / eamont@well.sf.ca.us / GEnie:  C.TAGGART
           "Whatever you is, BE that!" -- Clifton Chenier's barber
"A day without a strange look is a day wasted." - J. Gough, Heretic (Toasted)
               *** KCRW 89.9 FM, Santa Monica, California ***
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
From: mckeonj@ul.ie
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Blarney Stone
Date: 21 Dec 92 09:28:35 GMT
Distribution: world,local
Organization: University of Limerick, Ireland

In article <1992Dec13.172337@ece.arizona.edu>, evans@ece.arizona.edu writes:
> What is the real story behind the Blarney Stone?
It is actually a high rise privy. Conning burleys into kissing
it is quite a good joke.
-- 
"If England sleeps, shall Ireland dream?" : Se/an macEoin
-------------------------------------------------------------------
John McKeon, Material Science Dept. University of Limerick, Ireland
Xref: sparky soc.culture.celtic:8451 soc.culture.british:18064
From: fledgist@weber.ucsd.edu (Fragano Ledgister)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic,soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: The story of the Scottish flag
Date: 28 Dec 1992 04:15:48 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego
NNTP-Posting-Host: weber.ucsd.edu

In article <1992Dec27.221951.6835@newstand.syr.edu> crdunlea@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Christopher R. Dunlea) writes:
>In article <1har91INNjm0@network.ucsd.edu> fledgist@weber.ucsd.edu (Fragano Ledgister) writes:
>>In article <1992Dec23.162938.20649@newstand.syr.edu> crdunlea@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Christopher R. Dunlea) writes:
>>>In article <ljeqi1INNf2@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> chrisp@regenmeister.Sun.COM (Chris Prael) writes:
>>>By that argument, so does France's, Wales', Scotland, Germany's...I could go
>>>on but that would be ridiculous, like your answer. The royal family of
>>
>>This is simply wrong. France's royal families (there are three,
>>counting the Orleans line as separate)haven't had a throne to sit on
>>for over a century. Wales never had _a_ royal family (independent
>>Wales was never a united principality). The Scottish royal family is
>>extinct in the male line (though there is still, I think, a
>>Pretender). Germany's royal family has been out of the reigning
>>business since 1918.
>>
>
>Granted. My point, however, was that the bloodlines of the monarchies
>of Europe are so intertwined that the English royal family is less
>English than any of their subjects, so to speak. They have all the 
>mentioned bloodlines and any of the monarchs of Europe, with a little
>stretching, could fill in for the monarchs of other countries (after
>all, where did the royal families of the Balkan kingdoms come from? 
>Mostly Germany). The important thing here is not whose king sat on ehose
>throne but where real power flowed from.

The British royal family is, however, not the royal family of
anywhere else in Europe (except Gibraltar). As to the royal families
of the Balkans, while most were of German origin, two most certainly
were not.


>
>>
>>>the United Kingdom sits atop a throne founded by Cedric of Wessex, if 
>>>you must know. Wessex is in southern England. 
>>
>>Cedric is not a Saxon name. Would you by any chance mean Egbert?
>
>Sorry, I meant to write Cerdic. He is mentioned in the Anglo-SAxon 
>Chronicle as having landed in Britain in 494 and conquering the 
>kingdom of Wessex (the West Saxons).

The royal family traces its descent from Egbert (not to mention from
Arthur), though.

-- 
____________________________________________________________________
Dawn over the dark sea brings on the sun;                      
She leans across the hilltop: see, the light!
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Edinburgh Demo
Date: 18 Dec 92 21:13:26 GMT
Reply-To: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Organization: COMANDOS Project, Glesga Yoonie

calum@ivy.clu.cf.ac.uk (Calum Gordon) writes...
> How about some news about the Edinburgh Homerule demo last weekend,
> from those that were there. We don't get the scot.* groups here and
> the media coverage was woefull.  According to more than one "quality" paper
> the question has been buried since the election, although on recent 
> trips north i've found this to be far from the case.  Another example
> of the general ignorance and disinterest of the "other" nations in the
> union shown by the majority in southern britain. 

It wasn't just a "home rule" demo; it was an opportunity for everybody and
his brother to show their annoyance with either the British government or
the EC.  Not all the other nations ignored it: there was a sizable
contingent of Welsh Nationalists, for a start, and quite a few dissident
groups of various sorts from England (including the anti-racist campaigns I
mentioned before).  There was a dispute at the start where some nationalist
group (Scotland United?) wanted to be at the front and lost; the miners got
pole position, which I think was appropriate in conveying the message that
this wasn't a one-issue event.  It was bigger than the organizers expected
because Hibs were playing Partick Thistle and a lot of the fans joined in.

Not much happened.  We lined up, walked from Waterloo Place to the Meadows,
and went home (I was in between Clydeside Action on Asbestos and Class War).
It was cold.

BTW, did anyone see a press photograph of banners hanging from a window on
the route of the EC leaders' motorcade saying "Bosnia's Muslims Starve While
Europe's Rulers Pig Out"?  I did that, and I heard from the neighbours that
some newspaper sent a photographer along.

-- 
--  Jack Campin    room G092, Computing Science Department, Glasgow University,
17 Lilybank Gardens, Glasgow G12 8RZ, Scotland   TEL: 041 339 8855 x6854 (work)
INTERNET: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk or via nsfnet-relay.ac.uk    FAX: 041 330 4913
BANG!net: via mcsun and uknet     BITNET: via UKACRL    UUCP: jack@glasgow.uucp
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: tkeough@kean.ucs.mun.ca
Subject: Gaellic Spelling
Organization: Memorial University. St.John's Nfld, Canada
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 12:37:53 GMT

	I am looking for the correct Gaelic spelling of the name 
Elizabeth. I first heard the name from the Canadian program Witness.
That particular episode showed the story of the Siamese twins Katie and
Eilisp?).(sp). I did not notice at any time during the program the correct
spelling of the latter. I realize that this may not be the correct queue
for this question but any help will be greatly appreciated. Please mail 
replies to the address below.

						Thanks
						T. Keough

		E-MAIL: TKEOUGH@KEAN.UCS.MUN.CA
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: pwaldron@maths.tcd.ie (Paddy Waldron)
Subject: Irish Mythology
Followup-To: pwaldron@tcd.ie
Keywords: Cian
Organization: Dept. of Maths, Trinity College, Dublin, Ireland.
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 22:16:58 GMT

A friend sent me the following query recently. I can't help him,
but if anyone on the net can, please e-mail me directly.

Forwarded message:
> 	How good is your Irish mythology?  My sister has a neighbour
> (from Cork) whose son is called Cian.  I told her I thought it was
> not a nice name because Cian was a bit of an anti-hero.  She wanted
> to know more about it, but I couldn't really remember it.  What I
> did remember was that he killed someone in a very dishonourable way
> (or something like that) and then some people wanted to kill him.
> He changed himself into a pig, but the pigs couldn't stand him and
> made him change back again.  He was killed and cut into pieces, but
> when the pieces were buried, the earth spat them back out again
> because his crime was so bad.  Have you heard this story?

-- 
    _ _ _                       __
   ' ) ) )                     /  ) /            _/_
    / / / _  __  __  __  ,    /    /_  __  o _   /  ______  __.  _
   / ' (_</_/ (_/ (_/ (_/    (__/ / /_/ (_<_/_)_<__/ / / <_(_/|_/_)_
                       /
                      '
                                  *
                                  |
                                 /o\
                                //|\\o
                              o///|\\\
                              ////|\\\\
                            o/////|\\\\\o
                            //////|\\\\\\
                                 |||
                                |||||
Paddy Waldron, Department of Economics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, IRELAND.

	pwaldron@tcd.ie			Telephone:
	pwaldron@maths.tcd.ie		+353 1 702 1667
	pwaldron@vax1.tcd.ie		Fax:
	paddyw@lbs.lon.ac.uk		+353 1 77 25 03
From: masmm@gdr.bath.ac.uk (M McGettrick)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: New Irish Trad Music List
Date: 22 Dec 92 11:51:27 GMT
Organization: School of Mathematics, University of Bath, UK


A new LISTSERV has just been started for information/discussion on
traditional irish music. To subscribe just send a mail message to

listserv@irlearn.ucd.ie

with one line message

subscribe irtrad-l "your-name-here"

The list will provide:
a) an information service
   e.g. societies, clubs, organisations that promote ITM
        the in places to hear ITM live
        new ITM recordings
        new ITM publications
        summer schools/tours/ concerts/lectures
        etc. etc.
b) a forum for discussion
    e.g. queries, research abstracts, establishing links between people doing
    similar research
    etc.


All the best,
Michael Mc Gettrick.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic,soc.culture.british
From: crdunlea@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Christopher R. Dunlea)
Subject: Re: The story of the Scottish flag
Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 92 22:34:53 EST

In article <1harg7INNjua@network.ucsd.edu> fledgist@weber.ucsd.edu (Fragano Ledgister) writes:
>In article <1992Dec23.164653.20895@newstand.syr.edu> crdunlea@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Christopher R. Dunlea) writes:
>>In article <1h7v9uINNq2t@network.ucsd.edu> fledgist@weber.ucsd.edu (Fragano Ledgister) writes:
>>
>Irish prisoners were used as indentured servants in various West
>Indian colonies in the 17th century (most certainly including
>Montserrat). Indeed, there are stories of Gaelic being spoken in the
>West Indies through the late 18th century.
>
>Indentured servants, however, were not slaves. Unless, perhaps, you
>are equating slavery and contractual service.
>

You're right; African slaves cost three time as much as Irish servants.

On paper, you are correct; in practice, you are wrong. There were too many 
similarities between white "service" and black slavery to see much diference.
Both suffered an average of over 50% mortality in coffin ships during the
crossing, usually due to cramping, unsanitary conditions, rotten food,
slimy water, etc. Both lived in unheated shacks, with poor rations, rags,
and restrictions that made them chattel property (this was true for BOTH 
servants and slaves). Finally, neither were expexted to actually live in
the New World for longer than 3 years without succumbing to forced labor,
exposure, disease, whipings, etc.

The only difference was price. Slaves from Africa cost 60 lbs. to puchase
in America, because the Africans doing the hunting had to be paid for their     work; white servants were criminals who took the choice between a quick 
death on the gallows or a slow one in the Jamaican canefields. They only
cost 20 lbs because they were criminals (ie, no overhead). While you may
read great things about how America was founded by these freed indentured
servants, the reality shown by mortality rates was quite different. 

By the way, those "contracts" for indenture could be extended at the masters'
discretion, provided he or his friends on the county assize felt the need
to do so. So there were relatively few servants being freed with land
for their service in the 17th century.

Chris


Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic,soc.culture.british
From: kmw@roxi.rz.fht-mannheim.de (Karsten M. Winkovics)
Subject: Re: The story of the Scottish flag
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 92 06:18:49 GMT
Organization: Long John Silver Impersonators at FHT Mannheim
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

Katherine Merle Mason (katherim@fraser.sfu.ca) wrote:
: crdunlea@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Christopher R. Dunlea) writes:
: 
: 
: >Oh get off it! Whose monarchical family rules Britain? 
: Germany's
: 
Not quite, it's the Hannovers... Changed the name to WIndsor...
BTW...the Mountbatten's did it similarly... their roots are in Battenberg...

There are quite a few links between the rsp. monarchies... Wilhelm II, the last
German Emperor (and one of the least glorious... He was the chappy that 
thought firing Bismarck was a stroke of genius =:-} ) was a great-nephew
of Queen Victoria.

.. und tschuess!
KW
--
Karsten Winkovics                How to defend yourself against a man armed
kmw@roxi.rz.fht-mannheim.de      with a piece of fresh fruit...
IRCNICK:ducki
CS Centre, Fachhochschule fuer Technik, Mannheim, F. R. of Germany
Xref: sparky soc.culture.celtic:8454 soc.culture.british:18066
From: hiscrp@nuscc.nus.sg (C R Pennell)
Subject: Re: "The Crying Game" (movie)
Organization: National University of Singapore
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 22:45:42 GMT

The Crying Game was so popular when I was in London in November that  when
I tried I couldn't get a seat. Had excellent reviews too,

You're lucky - we'll never get it here.

Richard Pennell History NUS.
From: mckeonj@ul.ie
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Chrustmas
Date: 21 Dec 92 10:18:29 GMT
Organization: University of Limerick, Ireland

In article <1992Dec16.161640.6482@news.clarkson.edu>, walker@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Graham Walker, 227 West Old Main,268-3847,) writes:
> From article <BzCxy9.Lq@dcs.ed.ac.uk>, by morna@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Morna J Findlay):
>> 
>> M ( still a bit tipsy afer Chrustmas lunch)
>> -- 
>> Morna Findlay 					JANET:morna@uk.ac.ed.dcs 
> 
> Christmas lunch? I though we were only 5 hours behind the UK? 
No, he said Chrustmas lunch. Must be some ESTian midwinter festival.
Dedicated to Chrust, the god of Crumm.
-- 
"If England sleeps, shall Ireland dream?" : Se/an macEoin
-------------------------------------------------------------------
John McKeon, Material Science Dept. University of Limerick, Ireland
Xref: sparky soc.culture.celtic:8484 soc.culture.british:18121
From: morna@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Morna J Findlay)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic,soc.culture.british
Subject: Slavery ( was Re: The story of the Scottish flag)
Date: 30 Dec 92 12:34:07 GMT
Reply-To: morna@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Morna J Findlay)
Organization: Laboratory for the Foundations of Computer Science, Edinburgh U


Time for a change of subject line, don't you think ? :-)
I continue it on both s.c.c and s.c.b because I'm not sure
which group these two posters are from.

In article <1hp4ljINNhm@network.ucsd.edu> fledgist@weber.ucsd.edu (Fragano Ledgister) writes:
>In article <1992Dec29.015734.27067@newstand.syr.edu> crdunlea@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Christopher R. Dunlea) writes:

[Lots of interesting things.]


You two seem to be mines of information on the very interesting subjects
of slavery and indentured servitude. I wonder if you can answer one
question that has preplexed me for some time..

Why did the British colonies introduce slavery? 

I don't mean why did they do this for economic reasons, but what basis
did the purchase and ownership of people have in English law, which I
assume applied to the colonies.

I have read a bit about this recently in "Black Ivory - A History of
British Slavery" by James Walton, but can't find any information on
whether slavery existed in the UK prior to the settlement of the
colonies and whether there was any racial basis to it if it did.


ta

M


-- 
Morna Findlay 					JANET:morna@uk.ac.ed.dcs 
	Thanksgiving For a National Victory (Robert Burns)
Ye hypocrites! are these your pranks? To murder men and give God thanks?
Desist, for shame! Proceed no further: God won't accept your thanks for murther.
From: scott@cc.usu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: A Tartan for Dunlop/Dunlap???
Date: 1 Jan 93 22:35:41 MDT
Organization: Utah State University

	Until not long ago the clan Dunlop/Dunlap had no tartan.  Now they do. 
I'm not sure how this works and I'm happy to have a tartan to say is my own but
I'm not clear about who decides  about the patterns and how do you know if you
even have a right to a tartan or not (short of being Scotish)
	I have not been able to find the tartan in any of the books...Maybe
it's just too new.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic,soc.culture.british
From: crdunlea@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Christopher R. Dunlea)
Subject: Re: The story of the Scottish flag
Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 92 22:06:33 EST

In article <1hao5bINNg70@network.ucsd.edu> fledgist@weber.ucsd.edu (Fragano Ledgister) writes:
>>
>>
>Not to mention those of 1689 and 1714.
>
1689 has been reinterpreted by some as a military coup combined with an invasion
of England by William. The real power of Parliament became manifest in 1714
when George I was called to the throne.

What say ye?

Chris


Xref: sparky soc.culture.celtic:8423 soc.culture.british:18023
From: fledgist@weber.ucsd.edu (Fragano Ledgister)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic,soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: The story of the Scottish flag
Date: 23 Dec 1992 23:07:51 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego
NNTP-Posting-Host: weber.ucsd.edu

In article <1992Dec23.164653.20895@newstand.syr.edu> crdunlea@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Christopher R. Dunlea) writes:
>In article <1h7v9uINNq2t@network.ucsd.edu> fledgist@weber.ucsd.edu (Fragano Ledgister) writes:
>>Not all. In the late 17th century, a specifically Scottish colony
>>was established at Darien on the Isthmus of Panama. It failed alas.
>>I've seen references to Montserrat having been an Irish colony, but
>>those may be mistaken.
>
>
>You're right. Darien was a scheme to plant a colony in Panama in 1695
>(by Scotsmen, not the Scottish crown, which was a dead letter under 
>William III because the Scottish attitude was hostile to the usurpation
>of King Billy of James II's throne) but failed--not because of the swamps 
>but because Scotland was still excluded from direct English trade because
>of the Navigation Acts, now stringently enforced, so that the price of
>supplies to the colony was exorbitant. At best, it had quasi-government
>support by influential courtiers from Scotland.
>
>I Will grant you the possibility that Ireland MAY have been a colony chartered
>by the king of Ireland (the same guys who were King of England, Scotland,
>and supposedly France) but I will point out that the majority of the
>colonials were Celts from Ireland and Wales. I simply don't know the 
>story of Montserrat, will check, but are you sure? I will bet my last buck
>that the island was 90% Irish, all right...after all, who else were so 
>easy to get for indentured servant slave labor but Celtic criminals/rebels?
>
Irish prisoners were used as indentured servants in various West
Indian colonies in the 17th century (most certainly including
Montserrat). Indeed, there are stories of Gaelic being spoken in the
West Indies through the late 18th century.

Indentured servants, however, were not slaves. Unless, perhaps, you
are equating slavery and contractual service.

-- 
____________________________________________________________________
Dawn over the dark sea brings on the sun;                      
She leans across the hilltop: see, the light!
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic,soc.culture.british