HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rpetsche@mrg.tmc.edu (Rolfe G. Petschek)
Subject: Re: more thoughts on a new slant to rape stats
Reply-To: rpetsche@mrg.CWRU.EDU (Rolfe G. Petschek)
Organization: CWRU Physics Department
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 92 22:14:04 GMT

In article <1992Apr10.005847.19505@daffy.cs.wisc.edu> albert@sevenlayer.cs.wisc.edu (Joseph Albert) writes:

>rape victims instead of their rapists for rapes, let 1 in 605
>alleged rapists go acquitted, insist that the frequency of rape is

From "Felony sentences in State Courts, 1988" (last year our library has,
sorry) by Patrick A. Langan Ph.D and John M. Dawson Bureau of Justice
Statistics of the US Department of Justice

	Number		Adult		Felony		Incarceration	Prison
	Reported	arrests		convictions
Murder	 20,680		 19,523		  9,340	  	8,858 	       8,459
Rape	 92,490		 33,027		 15,562		 13,538       10,737 
Robbery	542,970		116,510		 37,432		 32,967	      27,694

Rape here is defined as forcible intercourse of any kind, including "forcible 
deviant behavior" "sodomy" and other crimes (correctly in my view) considered 
to be rape in Ohio and does not include statutory rape or intercourse
with someone factually or legally unable to give consent.  The number
which is quoted above, therefore seems to be in error by a factor of 100
if it is "convictions per report" and a factor of 200 if it is
"convictions per trial".  Actual numbers are 1 conviction for 6
reports and 1 conviction for 3 arrests.  I am marginally worried about
these statistics as I know that this definition differs from the FBI
definition which requires intercourse with a female and the FBI uniform
crime statistics seem to be quoted for number reported but I doubt that
this escaped the BJS.  Prison seems to differ from jail
in a way I do not understand, prison is more serious somehow and both
prison and jail are included in incarceration.

Also of interest:

Type of conviction

	  Jury	  Bench (judge)	Guilty Plea
Murder	  3,373		  757	 5,210
Rape	  2,812		  729	12,021
Robbery	  3,169		1,788	32,139

so *most* convictions involve no trial whatsoever.  Unfortunately I can
not give the number of trials which result in convictions as I have not
the data (and it is not given here).  I believe that this rate is
roughly 1/3.

Note that in these (and other tables which I will not reproduce) rape is
roughly intermediate between Murder and Robbery in the statistics.  The
only set of tables in which this is not the case is the sex of the
offender.  In both Murder and Robbery roughly 10% of the offenders are
women, in rape only 1% are.  Incidentally the mean prison time for
persons convicted of these offenses are murder: 20 years, rape 15
years, robbery 10 years.
--
Rolfe G. Petschek			Petschek@cwru.bitnet
Associate Professor of Physics		rgp@po.cwru.edu
Case Western Reserve University		(216)368-4035 
Cleveland Oh 44106-7079
Xref: sparky talk.rape:903 talk.abortion:15305
From: martin@adpgate.UUCP (Martin Golding)
Newsgroups: talk.rape,talk.abortion
Subject: Re: A rather peculiar letter.
Date: 14 Apr 92 19:08:55 GMT
Followup-To: talk.rape
Distribution: usa
Organization: ADP Dealer Services R&D, Portland, OR

mikeh@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (michael p.herlihy) writes:

: What is the consensus on the net for a national abortion law?

I have tried to figure out exactly what the national abortion law is
supposed to _do_, and am completely at a loss.

There doesn't seem to be any constitutional basis for a Federal abortion
law to affect the states, it doesn't appropriate any money (and if it did,
an appropriation would be equally effective), it doesn't direct the
executive branch to spend money already appropriated in new and interesting
ways. Other than collecting a buncha donations and making a buncha
noise, what the hell is the point?

: I am pro-life but think this issue is tearing the country apart.

Issues that don't tear the country apart are arbitrarily settled to the
benefit or pleasure of the majority, which is not an improvement.


: I would like to have it settled. I don't think having 50 different
: state laws is right.  

Then good, bad, or indifferent, you're in the wrong country. Despite
200 years of erosion, states still have significant rights and powers.


Martin Golding    | My opinions, mine, mine mine oh what the heck...
Dod #0236         |  here, you have them too.
[motcsd!]mcspdx!adpgate!martin
Newsgroups: talk.rape
From: jpalmer@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John D Palmer)
Subject: Re: how to support a friend who has been raped ?
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 04:48:01 GMT

In article <92Apr12.124750edt.144354@explorer.dgp.toronto.edu> flaps@dgp.toronto.edu (Alan J Rosenthal) writes:
>jpalmer@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John D Palmer) writes:
>>YOU ignore the situation.  It's up to her to ask for help or to talk with you
>>if she wishes.  You should listen if she wants to talk, but I've found that
>>making the issue greater than it is oftentimes causes more problems than it
>>solves.
>
>Fine, but you could also let her know that you're willing to be talked to about
>it.  Most men would not be very good to talk to about this sort of thing
>(flames to /dev/null).  If you're one of the men who are concerned about rape,
>you can let women know that you're available for listening.  Say something like
>"gosh that's terrible" or something suggestive of being supportive.  It often
>works to state your intent specifically, e.g. "I'm not sure if you want to talk
>about it or not, but if you do, I'm quite willing to listen."  (But *not*
>followed by an expectant pause.)

     Ouch. . . touche', I hadn't thought to mention that.  (grin)

-- 
"Love is cool; I mean, like, really cool.  Like, the coolest thing in
the universe, where, like, people open up inside and show the world how
they feel, and they ain't afraid someone's gonna laugh because they, like,
love themselves already!"  --Personality 42, a generic 60's philosopher
From: han@caen.engin.umich.edu (Han Mingwei)
Newsgroups: talk.rape
Subject: Re: Life, Defined and Otherwise (Addendum)
Date: 10 Apr 92 18:51:27 GMT
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor

In article <1992Apr8.034742.19159@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> bi477@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Gil Sherman) writes:
>
>	4.  As horrible as is the crime of rape, it does not
>		in and of itself excuse a subsequent abortion.
>
>		I really do not know the answer to how one 
>		might deal with a pregnancy by rape, except that
>		since all things are part of God's plan, perhaps
>		that child has a very special place in the world.

Yeah, right. 'all things are part of God's plan', so abortion which
is happening already, may also be part of God's plan, maybe it's the plan
to make up for the previous plan(rape). After all, God is not that bad.

This may not be the right group to follow up. If so, email me and I will
cancel this item.

--
  /\__     /\__     /\__\__    /\__      /\__      | 
    \__      \__  /\__     /\__  \__\__    \__     | MW.Han@um.cc.umich.edu
     \__\__\__\__   \__\__\__\__  \__ /\__  \__    | University of Michigan
      \__    / \__   \__    / \__  \__ / /\__\__   | 
       \__      \__   \__      \__  \__   / / \__  | World Cup Soccer 94 USA
       / /      / /   / /      / /  / /       / /  | rec.sport.soccer
Newsgroups: talk.rape
From: aldrich@leland.Stanford.EDU (James Dunbar Aldrich-Moodie)
Subject: Re: fraternities
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 92 17:15:08 GMT

In article <15APR199213520864@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov> aatresa@lims01.lerc.nasa.
gov (Teresa Kline) writes:
>
>Here in Ohio we've had two recent cases...one was a 
>twelve year old that raped a six year old.  I just have to wonder where 
>they learn it.  When *I* was twelve, I was still beating up the boys during 
>recess.
>I *know* that rape isn't about sex, it's about power.  But where does a 
>twelve year old boy learn that?
>
Probably from someone else.  I wonder what an investigation into the twelve-
year old's history would find.  I'd be willing to bet that there's some kind
of abuse there.

_Newsweek_ just did a very interesting article on children who sexually 
mistreat other children a couple of weeks back.  (I'm truly sorry I don't have
the exact date for you.)

James
______________
James Aldrich-Moodie
aldrich@leland.stanford.edu


Newsgroups: talk.rape
From: hes@unity.ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer)
Subject: Re: Life, Defined and Otherwise
Organization: Computing Center, North Carolina State University
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 14:37:21 GMT

In article <1992Apr7.050009.1623@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> bi477@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Gil Sherman) writes:
>
>
>I have read many postings about rape, abortion, babies born
>without brain stems...etc.  I cannot believe that you people in
>general have no sense of when human life begins, regardless of
>how you or others choose to end it.
>
>	* All Life Begins At Conception
          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  Not only does this post seem inappropriate to this news group,
but the poster seems to think that gametes (sperm and eggs) are
dead.

> ...  [rest of inappropriate post deleted]

--henry schaffer  n c state univ

P.S. I can't believe that the post was solely to this group -
perhaps it was posted individually to multiple groups (thereby
wasting much resource as well as peoples' time.)  Anybody know?
Newsgroups: talk.rape
Subject: Re:  Tyson's sentence
From: koumis@husc4.harvard.edu (Anthony Koumis)
Date: 11 Apr 92 14:53:39 EDT
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

Yes, Tyson's sentance was about average for what the judge had 
sentenced other convicted rapists to.

When he gets out he probably ownt have learned what he did
was wrong but perhaps since he doesnt have as much money
anymoer he wont be able to use his fame to his ends.
From: bi477@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Gil Sherman)
Newsgroups: talk.rape
Subject: Life, Defined and Otherwise
Date: 7 Apr 92 05:00:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: usenet.1992Apr7.050009.1623
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)



I have read many postings about rape, abortion, babies born
without brain stems...etc.  I cannot believe that you people in
general have no sense of when human life begins, regardless of
how you or others choose to end it.

	* All Life Begins At Conception
		It  doesn't matter whether it is human life or
		otherwise, it still is present at conception.

	*Life Is Not Always Independently Sustainable
		Just because we can determine interutero that
		a fetus will develop without a full brain has
		no effect of the existance of human life...
		only the resulting quality of that life
		outside the womb.

		The case is no different with the assassination
		of President Kennedy.  It was quite obvious
		that he would die from the minute he entered
		the hospital...Moreover, since better than half
		of his brain had been shot away, he certainly
		would be of no "further value" to society or
		even to the USA.  Did the doctors just pull
		the sheet over his head?  NO! they tried to
		save him.

		Also, the existence and "
		"value" of interutero human life is not
		diminished just because it is unsustainable
		outside the womb without significant inter-
		vention.  To bring this to light to the
		"PRO_DEATH" advocates...a 12 week fetus 
		weighs about 1 pound.  That happens to be
		the same weight as the smallest premature
		baby delivered to date.  Hmmmmm....doesn't
		this mean that the baby is a baby?  Not a blob,
		meaningless tissue or any other ambiguous
		non-truth the so-called choicers put forth?

	3.  Despite the fact that many children are awaiting
		or
		organ donations, this does not give us the
		right to end one life to offer it to others.

Gil
-- 
GIL SHERMAN (c.me.first) - bi477@cleveland.freenet.edu
COMBINED RESOURCES, INC. - P.O. BOX 770500
LAKEWOOD, OH  44107-0027
VOICE: (216) 221-1161     FAX: (216) 221-1186
Newsgroups: talk.rape
From: bi477@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Gil Sherman)
Subject: MEA CULPA (Re: Life, Defined...) By Author
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 92 04:30:51 GMT


To All Readers:

I am sorry that my original posting did not include a sane con-
nection to rape.  It truly  was a fatigue-driven error.  If you
will indulge me and read the posted addendum, it will clarify
the connection.  It probably will draw even more criticism,
but at least it will be cogent.

Gil
-- 
GIL SHERMAN (c.me.first) - bi477@cleveland.freenet.edu
COMBINED RESOURCES, INC. - P.O. BOX 770500
LAKEWOOD, OH  44107-0027
VOICE: (216) 221-1161     FAX: (216) 221-1186
Newsgroups: talk.rape
From: bi477@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Gil Sherman)
Subject: Life, Defined and Otherwise (Addendum)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 92 03:47:42 GMT


Apparently, in my last posting I was not explicit enough regard-
ing the connection of my last posting to rape as the main focus
of this newsgroup...therefore:

	4.  As horrible as is the crime of rape, it does not
		in and of itself excuse a subsequent abortion.

		I really do not know the answer to how one 
		might deal with a pregnancy by rape, except that
		since all things are part of God's plan, perhaps
		that child has a very special place in the world.

		More likely though, the woman who through her
		suffering still brings that child into the world
		will receive many graces for having done God's
		will despite great difficulty.

Sorry for the previous confusion.

Gil
-- 
GIL SHERMAN (c.me.first) - bi477@cleveland.freenet.edu
COMBINED RESOURCES, INC. - P.O. BOX 770500
LAKEWOOD, OH  44107-0027
VOICE: (216) 221-1161     FAX: (216) 221-1186
Newsgroups: talk.rape
From: albert@sevenlayer.cs.wisc.edu (Joseph Albert)
Subject: Re: more thoughts on a new slant to rape stats
Organization: University of Wisconsin, Madison -- Computer Sciences Dept.
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 02:10:02 GMT

In article <1992Apr13.184429.8803@lmpsbbs.mot.com> bhv@areaplg2.corp.mot.com (Bronis Vidugiris) writes:

>I haven't seen anything to convince me that the frequency of rape is
>'orders of magnitude' larger than, say, the NCS figures.  I could believe 2
>or maybe even  4X - but 10X or more seems unlikely to me without redefining
>the term such as Koss did (ref. our last debate).

Well, considering that Koss used the strict, legal definition of forcible
rape, (defined behaviorally), and prosecutable in courts of law in the US
in her measurement of the frequency of rape in a large, random sample of 
college students, (don't you remember this point from our last debate?)
then it sounds like your beef is with the entire US judicial system, and not
Koss, for `re-defining' rape to be something different from your own 
`definition' of rape.

Maybe the reason that you can only believe that the frequency of rape
is 2X or (possibly) 4X greater than what the National Crime Survey
reported is that you are comparing your perceptions of what goes on
in society around you with your overly restrictive definition of what
constitutes rape.

Joseph Albert
albert@cs.wisc.edu
Newsgroups: talk.rape
From: zeller@bernina.ethz.ch (Lukas Zeller)
Subject: how to support a friend who has been raped ?
Organization: Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH), Zurich, CH
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 13:01:43 GMT

Sorry that I ask this question about a subject that surely has been discussed 
here again and again, but I'd really like some advice.
A friend of mine has been raped by her boss. She fears the humiliation that 
women experience when they try to accuse the rapist, the situation that the 
victim becomes the accused (style: are you sure you didn't provocate him?) - 
And she's dependent on continuing her job. This man seems to have routine; 
most probably he raped several women before.
What can one do to help her in this situation? Blind revenge wouldn't do any 
good, obviously - altough even people hardly involved like me feel a sudden 
and strong urge to do so, let alone women who've gone trough that themselves.
Maybe there are other, more effective possibilites aside from (or in addition 
to) report on him, maybe writing letters to his employer etc. stating that his 
deed is known and urge him to give himself up to the police. Of course this 
raises the question if being threatened justifies threatening, but it's a 
matter of proportions. I'd greatly apprechiate if somebody out here had any 
advice or idea or a pointer. Not to pay violence with violence, but *not to 
accept* that again a woman has been broken by a man, insane or not, and having 
no way out but to *swallow*. Please email - thanks a lot! 

==========================  +---------------------------+  *****************
      Lukas Zeller          |\         E-Mail:         /|  * Never trust a *
 ETH Zurich, Switzerland    | \_______________________/ |  *   computer    *
  (SFIT, Swiss Federal      |  /  zeller@ethz.UUCP   \  |  *  bigger than  *
 Institute of Technology)   | / ..chx400!ethz!zeller  \ |  * you  can lift *
==========================  +---------------------------+  *****************
Newsgroups: talk.rape
From: br954@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Tim Aumann)
Subject: Re: Life, Defined and Otherwise (Addendum)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 92 17:02:05 GMT


I don't know aboo[D[4~
Start over...
I don't know about you folks, but the entire area of abortion 
seems to be a rather stick y subject. I am not necessarily for
aborion on demand - there are better ways to avois pregnancy.
But there seems to be some cases where I think it may have some
value - rape, incest, 'the non brain t stem child', etc. I am
just glad that I am not the one who has to play solomon.
-- 
Tim Aumann
aumann@eclipse.msfc.nasa.gov
From: gordons@coopsol.com (Gordon Storga)
Newsgroups: talk.rape
Subject: Re: Tyson's sentence
Date: 9 Apr 92 17:49:20 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Stay Awake Software

<1992Apr6.192919.4394@cco.caltech.edu> roder@cco.caltech.edu (Brenda J. Roder) said:
>gordons@coopsol.com (Gordon Storga) writes:
>
>>come along (after Kennedy, and Thomas's harrasment debacle).  Tyson has
>>been found guilty, I don't dispute that.  But sixty years!  Heck, there
>                                               ^^^^^
>>are _murderers_ out there who get less than a third of that.  The guy
>>sentenced to die this weekend in California served only two years for his
>>first murder.
>
>I believe it is six years not sixty.  Expected to be out in 3 if good behavior
>every day, plus some community service maybe (don't remember for sure).
>The six years is 10 years with 4 years suspended.

I had heard he was sentenced to 6 10 year terms.  The judge reduced each
sentence.  I may have heard incorrectly, and would welcome corrections.
My point was not the term he'll end up serving, it was what he was
sentenced to *originally*.


Gordon
-- 

The opinions expressed are my own, and not the beliefs or opinions
of whatever company you think I work for.  So there, thhhbbbt!
Message to Kodak:  Freedom for Dan Bredy.
From: dabbott@augean.eleceng.adelaide.edu.AU (Derek Abbott)
Newsgroups: talk.philosophy.misc
Subject: Re: THE CHICKEN AND THE EGG
Date: 6 Apr 92 08:13:06 GMT
Organization: Electrical and Electronic Eng., University of Adelaide

>In article <aDaoiB2w164w@phsbbs.princeton.nj.us> arnold@phsbbs.princeton.nj.us
>(Jonathan Hefler) writes:
>>I have finally figured out which came first, the chicken or the egg. It
>>is the egg, and I have sound reasoning to back up my claim.
>>
>>-----
>>Jonathan Hefler, Princeton High School BBS


I heard a guy from Texas once say "What a stupid question! Of course it's the
chicken that came first. Have you ever seen an egg lay a chicken?" :-)
From: comptec91065@camins.camosun.bc.ca
Subject: Just a Test / Sorry...
Organization: Camosun College
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 01:25:21 GMT

Hi there, and exactly what are you?
A brain?
A dream perhaps, in a lump of meat?

This is a test?
This is not.
From: ddc1@jaguar.uofs.edu
Newsgroups: talk.philosophy.misc
Subject: Re: THE CHICKEN AND THE EGG
Date: 15 Apr 92 07:03:36 GMT
Organization: University of Scranton

In article <8APR199219123682@zeus.tamu.edu>, gdm7238@zeus.tamu.edu (MCBRIDE, GARY DEAN) writes:
> In article <aDaoiB2w164w@phsbbs.princeton.nj.us>, arnold@phsbbs.princeton.nj.us (Jonathan Hefler) writes...
>>I have finally figured out which came first, the chicken or the egg. It 
>>is the egg, and I have sound reasoning to back up my claim.

> Actually, the chicken and the egg dilemma is not much of a dilemma.  If you
> believe in evolution than a near-chicken gave birth to a chicken egg.  If you
> believe in sudden creationism then god created chickens.  So the debate is a
> really much more complicated one than it seems for the true debate is evolution
> versus sudden creationism.  Might I refer you to Talk.Origins for that 
> particular debate.

	The question was about the egg, not a chicken egg. Obviously you need a
chicken to make a chicken egg. But if you believe in evolution the egg
pre-dates the chicken by about 60 Million years.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dave D. Cawley		   |	Where a social revolution is pending and,
University Of Scranton	   |	for whatever reason, is not accomplished,
ddc1@jaguar.uofs.edu	   |	reaction is the alternative.
ddc1@SCRANTON		   |				-Daniel De Leon
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: ddc1@jaguar.uofs.edu
Newsgroups: talk.philosophy.misc
Subject: Re: THE CHICKEN AND THE EGG
Date: 6 Apr 92 08:10:53 GMT
Organization: University of Scranton

In article <aDaoiB2w164w@phsbbs.princeton.nj.us>, arnold@phsbbs.princeton.nj.us (Jonathan Hefler) writes:
> I have finally figured out which came first, the chicken or the egg. It 
> is the egg, and I have sound reasoning to back up my claim.

	The egg predates the chicken by about 60 million years.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dave D. Cawley		   |	Where a social revolution is pending and,
University Of Scranton	   |	for whatever reason, is not accomplished,
ddc1@jaguar.uofs.edu	   |	reaction is the alternative.
ddc1@SCRANTON		   |				-Daniel De Leon
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: bcushman@envy.Reed.Edu (Ben Cushman)
Newsgroups: talk.philosophy.misc
Subject: Re: THE CHICKEN AND THE EGG
Date: 15 Apr 92 19:03:59 GMT
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

In article <1992Apr15.020336.1@jaguar.uofs.edu> ddc1@jaguar.uofs.edu  
writes:

> 
> 	The question was about the egg, not a chicken egg. Obviously you  
need a
> chicken to make a chicken egg. But if you believe in evolution the egg
> pre-dates the chicken by about 60 Million years.
> 

	I am not sure that it is obvious that you need a chicken to make a  
chicken egg.  It depends on whether by "chicken egg" we mean an egg with a  
chicken fetus in it, or an egg that was laid by a chicken.  Personally, I  
prefer the former definition.  I believe in evolution, and so I believe  
that the first chicken egg was laid by a non-chicken chicken ancestor, and  
I believe that it is quite possible for a chicken to lay an egg with a  
non-chicken chicken descendent in it.  In fact, my family raises chickens,  
and I have seen some wierd chicks-- mutant chicks that I wouldn't want to  
call "chickens".

					Ben Cushman
					Reed College