HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: taddiken@ms.uky.edu (scott taddiken)
Subject: Judo.  A technique that has worked for me.
Summary: One handed kouchi gari.
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 15:40:28 GMT
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences

Somebody has posted, saying that there isn't enough judo on this net.
While it is true that judo and issues of judo do come up from time to
time, I believe I understand what was meant:  There is not much
discussion of judo technique.  IMHO, there is not much discussion of
the techniques of _any_ art, with the possible exception do aikido
(doing great, guys!).

I'll contribute, and I'll try not to lose the non-judo crowd.

A technique which has worked well for me in recent years is one handed
kouchi gari.  Kouchi, as it is affectionately called, is the throw in
which your right foot (RF) grabs the heel of his RF as you drop him
straight down onto his back.

Incidentally, for you beginners out there, the tendency when learning
this throw is to push him back as you reap the foot, since you're
hoping he'll fall in that direction.  This is a mistake.  You should
pull almost straight down and a little to your left with both hands
until he is well on his way.  Also for beginners, let me say that an
ideal opponent to try this throw on is one who steps forward with his
RF when you begin a right sided forward head-over-heels type throw:
fake and anticipate; don't give his foot a chance to touch the ground,
but rather sweep it just as he is about to put it down.

Opponents I face often will take a grip with their LH either on my
sleeve or lapel, allowing me to get a grip with my RH on his lapel,
but then they make a big issue of taking the second grip.  I pull with
my RH to get him to step forward with his RF.  It is sometimes
necessary to step on his LF with my RF in order to accomplish this.
Then, I drive down(!) hard to his right rear corner with my RH while
reaping his RF at the heel with my RF.  Your LH should be doing
something--I use it to assist my RF by doing an ankle pick once the
throw gets going.  It is rarely needed, however, if the throw is
working at all, and it is rarely helpful if the throw isn't working.

How's that?
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Scott Taddiken, University of Kentucky

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: schan@birch.srg.af.mil (Stephen Chan x4485)
Subject: Re: Finishing techniques
Organization: SRG, Arinc Research Corp., Annapolis, MD
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 13:41:48 GMT

In article <BzCw2M.12H@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> burdickd@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Dakin Burdick) writes:
>I think I'd have to agree with David's sensei here.  I've done Hapkido
>for a number of years (ok, so I didn't get my black belt!) and I work
>out with the Hapkido black belts quite often.  Against a determined,
>skilled, or stronger opponent about 3/4 of the jointlocks and
>techniques just don't work.  They are great for teaching concepts,
>but only a few really work.

	To be honest, I'd have to say that the Hapkido instructor I knew said
much the same thing - anything taught before black belt is only to bring out
movement and concepts - few of the techniques should actually be used in
combat.

>the use of strength (NOT by my knowledge of the technique).  Of
>course, you can always kick him in the shins and THEN go into the
>lock, increasing your chance for success.

	The Hapkido folks I know would tend to jam a finger into a some tender
cavity of your body - it's sort of an opportunity thing, and you have to learn
that stuff before you can use Hapkido as a fighting art.

>Now THIS is really interesting.  I've never heard about a similar 
>incident.  Can you give us details?  How much did each person weigh?
>Was either already injured?  How long had PCP-madman been running
>amok?  What control was used?

	I can't say which technique he used - but from what Joe said, he pinned
him the ground, using an arm control,  kneeled on him and had free reign over
much of the bad boy's pressure points on the neck. He kept the guy calm, and
only applied pain when Mr. PCP wanted to get up. Lots of, ahem, harmony.
	Joe is something of a ringer though, in that he's probably 200 lbs of
solid muscle.
--
	Stephen Chan
	uunet!srg!schan or uunet!srg!schan@uunet.uu.net
From: ber@otter.hpl.hp.com (Brenda Romans)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 09:27:17 GMT
Subject: Re: Judo.  A technique that has worked for me.
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Bristol, UK.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts


>>Incidentally, for you beginners out there, the tendency when learning
>>this throw is to push him back as you reap the foot, since you're
>>hoping he'll fall in that direction.  This is a mistake.  You should
>>pull almost straight down and a little to your left with both hands
>>until he is well on his way.  Also for beginners, let me say that an

I have discovered recently that it is a good ploy to lift the opponent
*straight up* to get him off balance and then he'll go fairly easily if you get
right in with your body as well as the leg.  But then I like sacrifice throws
and I'm never much worried about going down too, if you pull them down you are
probably more likely to keep your balance and more control.

Cheers

Brenda


------------------------------------------------------------------
Brenda Romans @ HP Labs         |  Phone: (0272) 228705
Information Systems Centre      |  ber@hpl.hp.co.uk
Bristol                         |  ber%hplb.uucp@ukc.ac.uk
U.K.                            |  ber@hplb.hpl.hp.com
From: simutis@Ingres.COM (John Simutis)
Subject: Re: Describing techniques in words - Yuk!
Reply-To: simutis@Ingres.COM (John Simutis)
Organization: Ingres Division, ASK Computer Systems.
Date: 18 Dec 92 16:49:49 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.193158.601@walter.cray.com>, radner@cray.com (Lauren Radner) writes:



>For example, to describe the opening moves of our version of nihanchi
>(one of our kata), I'd say (skipping the salute part):

[skip a lot]
>
>Starting Position:
>- (after the salute) your starting position is facing 12:00. Your legs
>  are together, knees bent, heels together, toes pointing towards 10:30
>  and 1:30 (just trying to give an example of degree of subtlety!) and

Which foot points to 10:30?  Those of us who use a lot of sanchin
stance might say the RIGHT foot - just another subtlety!


>  your arms extend down with your hands crossing at approximately groin
>  height. your left hand is open/flat , with fingers and thumb touching,
>  fingers pointing down-and-to-the-right as a natural extension of the
>  angle of your left arm. Your right hand is in a fist. Your right hand
>  is closer to your body than your left hand, such that, to someone 
>  looking at you from 12:00, your left hand hides your fist. The palm
>  of your left hand should be touching the back of your right fist. 
>

[rest of nice description deleted]

>-Lauren
> 

I'm not able to really _remember_ a kata until I can write it down this
way for myself - but I don't think anyone outside my style would actually
be able to 'walk-through' the kata as I wrote it.  I have seen and used 
the comparison of techniques as "words", combinations as "sentences", 
kata as "memorized speeches" rather like "the Gettysburg Address of
Abraham Lincoln", and kumite ranging from "formal debate" to "a shouting
match".  I think we necessarily speak in the "words" of our training; 
some have many words, some fewer, but we need a basic vocabulary.  Just
an example:  what's a "fist" in your style?

The non-english terms seem a _little_ better than the English - but
even their definitions vary from style to style.  MA-Esperanto, anyone?

John
From: m23364@mwunix (James Meritt)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Drugs & Fighting (was Finishing techniques)
Date: 16 Dec 92 13:52:24 GMT
Organization: MITRE Corporation, McLean VA

In article <1992Dec15.224656.692@pages.com> kevin@pages.com (Kevin Sven Berg) writes:
}In article <e3TsVB1w165w@bluemoon.use.com> lchurch2@bluemoon.use.com (Leonard  
}Church) writes:
}> ....  This 
}> discussion reminds me of "battlemix" as a gentleman I met that was in Viet 
}> Nam called it...it was a mixture of narcotics that was often used by US 
}> and Vietmanese <sp?> troops before going into a particularly nasty combat 
}> situation.  He told me that he personally had seen men that were shot so 
}> severely that they could not have been able to react continue to function 
}> for up to 5 minutes before finally falling.
}
}This reminds me that there are and have been many cultures that have
}mixed drugs and fighting application. My favorite (being Scandahovian)
}is the Viking's use of berseka (magic mushrooms) and mead (fermented
}honey/wine) prior to battle. One can imagine how terrified the defenders 
}would be when arrows and swords did little to stop the oncoming attacks.

Check the origins of "assassin".
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: stranglehold
Date: 20 Dec 92 02:02:30 GMT
Organization: UniSQL, Inc., Austin, Texas, USA

In article <4412@unisql.UUCP> wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) writes:
>>As often as I've this particular choke done to me, the only thing I've found
>>that is halfway reliable is turning your head and dropping your chin.  But if

	I've got another question:  if you can hit someone hard enough
to knock them off balance and there's enough opportunity to get both 
hands around their neck AND accurately position your thumbs for this
attack, why would you use it and not just a knuckle punch to the trachea?
To show off? :-)

	Note that Mary's (?) defense, the sternum strike, also fails
against this attack, since if you're that off balance you can't
strike.  This sounds like one of those questions you hear all the
time: "What do you do if...", like the bear-hug one making the rounds
now to which the answre is "Don't let it happen, Glasshopper".
Although if it happened to me I'd attack one of the thumbs to break
the grip - even if I'm off balance and falling I can find my own neck
with my hands...

	I'm going to rephrase my original assertion and throw the new one
out to be shot down:

	If someone attacks with the "bad-movie-choke" grip and doesn't
destroy your balance then you should have plenty of time to counter even
if she attacks your trachea with her thumbs.  

	Does this technique have a name, by the way?
From: twcaps@tennyson.lbl.gov (Terry Chan)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Seagal Hits The Big Time
Date: 18 Dec 1992 17:45:27 GMT
Organization: Department of Redundancy Department
Reply-To: TWChan@lbl.gov (Terry Chan)
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.12.117

rtravsky@news.uwyo.edu (Rich Travsky) writes:

   [about Seagal making the "big" time]
  
egross@jarthur.claremont.edu (Erik Maynard Gross) writes:

  +Better make that "had" a wife in Japan, it was some time ago.  However his
  +(ex) half-brother from that relationship is still a friend of his, and takes
  +ukeme for him in movies.  I had a chance to meet him; nice guy.

Sorry if I seem a bit thick here, but may I ask how was this guy
Seagal's (ex) half-brother from a relationship with his wife?

Terry
--
Energy and Environment Division   | Internet:  TWChan@lbl.gov
Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory      | 
Berkeley, California  USA  94720  | Carpe Per Diem
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: dsmythe@netcom.com (Dave Smythe)
Subject: Re: Drugs & Fighting (was Finishing techniques)
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 08:46:48 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.224656.692@pages.com> kevin@pages.com (Kevin Sven Berg) writes:
>I wonder how common it would be to encounter drugs and fighting
>around the globe currently... ?

I have a friend who served as a, ahem, military consultant in a not-relevant-
to-the-discussion third-world country.  His job was to protect a town or
settlement from bandits that would come running down out of the hills to
rape and pillage and generally wreak havoc.  He said that they would spend
all day getting high on some kind of drugs until they were convinced that
they were invincible, then come running down out of the hills with knives,
etc.  It was a simple job to simply mow them down with gun-fu until they
got discouraged and retreated.  Not sure what the moral is here, but perhaps
it's enough to say that there is at least ONE good way of dealing with the
300' PCP-head.  Of course, carrying an SKS at all times makes you conspicuous...

D

p.s. He's alive and fine and unharmed.  He quit simply because he got tired
     of the carnage.

-- 
========================================================================
Dave Smythe   N6XLP    dsmythe@netcom.com (also dsmythe@cs.stanford.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: schan@birch.srg.af.mil (Stephen Chan x4485)
Subject: Re: More ki/qi/chi & science
Organization: SRG, Arinc Research Corp., Annapolis, MD
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 14:21:26 GMT

>  Properly speaking, science is a METHOD, not a body of accepted doctrines. 
>If you say the standardly accepted doctrines of Western science exclude
>ki/qi, you are right.  But there is no reason to suppose that the scientific
>method is incompatible with such a stuff/thing/phenomenon -- all we need to
>do is articulate what ki/qi is suppoed to BE (really).

	Well, there seems to be a misunderstanding here.
	Peter is criticizing the attitudes of western scientists: he's
accusing them of intellectual insularity (IMHO a valid criticism),
Euro-centrism, and pretty much just pointing out that scientists, for all their
brainpower and learned degrees, can sometimes  be small-minded, petty asses
(like the rest of us).
	On the other hand, every else has chosen to defend the Platonic ideal
of the (trumpets) Scientific Method. Its easy to defend the purity of an idea
I guess - but much harder to defend the people who profess the ideal.

	If Peter is attacking a theoretical system, then he's really attacking
logical positivism, and not necessarily the scientific method. One of the bad
things about a positivist attitude is that it politically and psychologically
naive. One can say "XXX is outside of the realm of scientific discourse", and
it seems innocuous of itself.
	But science has a sneaky habit of being associated with Truth and
knowledge. Eventually, what happens is that the original positivist statement
of "XXX is outside the realm of scientific discourse" becomes "XXX is outside
the realm of rational discourse".
	Suddenly, whole classes of human experience are invalidated. You might
say that certain people suffer alienation from their own experience. Experien-
tial knowledge is no longer considered meaningful - but the vast majority of
the population does not find anything experientially meaningful in scientific
knowledge.

	So you end up with a backlash against Western Science and the
scientific method, when in fact the culprit is this pernicious philosophical
theory called "Logical Positivism". Peter attacks western science, while
everyone defends the scientific method. The hidden factor is really LP. LP,
analyzed in the platonic realm of pure reason, seems pretty harmless.
	But factor in human nature, psychology, politics and all that messy
stuff, and you have something which can be pretty unpleasant.

	And now back to our regularly scheduled programming:

	Oh YEAH? My sensei's shime-waza is better than *your* sensei's
shime-waza!
	[cough! choke! splatter!]
	...look, its the Aikido "no touch" choke!

--
	Stephen Chan
	uunet!srg!schan or uunet!srg!schan@uunet.uu.net
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: wut@acf3.NYU.EDU (Tom Wu)
Subject: Re: TRUE MARTIAL ARTIST (was: Van Damme and Seagal)
Organization: New York University
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 00:58:00 GMT

/* acf3:rec.martial-arts / ph2sct@sdcc14.ucsd.edu (Dzu Nguyen) /  8:11 pm  Dec  8, 1992 */
My aikido sensei said that seagal is also a 5th dan in karate. what
style i'm not sure. Seagal doesn't have the build of a karateka
anymore. He's gotten to be a bit pudgy nowadays. Is it me or are all
aikido senseis look like Buddha? (kinda portly if you know what i
mean) at least the old non oriental ones seem this way. the old
oriental ones look like twigs. but then it's not the size that
counts.....

Dzu



	Hay, funny that you mentioned it. It is absolutely
true that all martial artists will age to look like buddhas.
If you look at pictures of famous martial artists, let it be
internal or external, when they get to 50, they all carry around
that full belly. I think that has something to do with their
training, which often concentrate on the waist and stomach.
Or could it be the effect of concentrating chi in "Dan Tian,"
which is located in lower abdoman.



					---Tom
 
/* ---------- */
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Chito-Ryu info
Date: 15 Dec 92 22:36:51 GMT
Organization: UniSQL, Inc., Austin, Texas, USA

> Chito-Ryu,

	Is that the martial art that goes "crunch" ?  Made with real
cheddar?  The Orange Fingers of Death? 

	:-)	:-)	:-)	:-)	:-)	:-)	:-)
From: tms@cs.umd.edu (Tom Swiss (not Swift, not Suiss, Swiss!))
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: strangleholds, length of time to work, and which are dangerous.
Keywords: strike or strangle
Date: 12 Dec 92 22:14:08 GMT
Organization: The Reality Liberation Front (pixels to the people!)

simutis@Ingres.COM (John Simutis) writes:
>In article <1992Dec11.194009.17988@relay.nswc.navy.mil>, snorthc@relay.nswc.navy.mil (Stephen Northcutt - K31) writes:
>
>>Finally, I wonder, who all was taught the windpipe attack, where
>>you put your 4fingers together in a knife strike, the thumb on the
>>opposite side about an inch apart from the fingers and strike with the fingers
>>parallel to and just outside of the windpipe.  Definately one to avoid receiving!  
>>
>
>With the thumb on one side of the windpipe, the fingers on the other?

     We do that one. Called _toho_, meaning "sword peak hand". Got hit
with a mild one of those once. No damage, but even a mild strike to
the throat will startle you; a good technique for getting your opponent
to drop his guard.

===============================================================================
Tom Swiss/tms@cs.umd.edu  |  "Born to die"   |   Keep your laws off my brain!
     "What's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding?" - Nick Lowe 
                     Keep your values off my family.
     "I wasn't ready, man. I - I still believed in justice."
     "Your world entertains many quaint superstitions."
     -- Victor Milan, "Madman across the Water"
        (in _Jokertown Shuffle - Wild Cards IX_)
From: sog@craycos.com (Steve Gombosi)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Shihans, Senseis, Dan(s) & Stuff
Date: 13 Dec 92 00:49:06 GMT
Organization: Cray Computer Corporation

In article <Bz3L2F.EDy@wilber.rich.nt.com> bwebb@nrchh129.RICH.nt.com (Brad Webb) writes:
>
>OKAY PEOPLE, LISTEN UP.... ONE LOWLY STUDENTS OPINION COMING IN...
>
>The way I understand it:
>
>1) The term Shihan means 'Compass' in archiac japanese,  
>     and is more currently used to mean a master (ie teacher)
>     of masters.

Umm, I don't think this is true.

"Shihan" is written with 2 kanji - the first "shi" is # 624 in Sakade, et al
(#113 in Nelson's), which means "teacher". The second, "han" is #3424 in
Nelson's and means "example", "pattern", or, in other contexts, "limit".
A "shihan" is someone who is good enough to "teach by his own example".
or "a teacher whom one may use as a model or pattern for one's own practice."

The kanji "han" *does* occur in "han'i" which means "compass" in the sense
of "range", "scope", or "boundary". The "i" is kanji #1032 in Nelson's,
which means "enclosure".

>2) The term Shihan up until recently was supposed to be used
>      mostly in the written form, not verbal.

This is also my understanding. I have certainly never met a Japanese or
Okinawan teacher who wished to be addressed as anything other than "sensei",
except in the case of a Chief Instructor at a dojo where several high-ranking
instructors were teaching - in which case "kancho^" (=="director") was used.
Your mileage, as they say, may vary.


>3) The term Shihan should then be used for (IMHO) 8th dan and up,
>      (8th degree black belt to the non-japanese.) but mostly
>       in written form, such as your posts.

This varies from system to system. In Aikido, "shihan" has been customarily
used for 6th dan and up. Some karate styles use it for 4th dan and up. Some
(like mine) don't use it at all.

>4) The term you would normally call a teacher by would then be
>       SENSEI.  This is the term we used when addressing 
>       M. Nakayama, 9th dan, Shotokan(JKA).

This is what I've always done - nobody's flogged me for rudeness yet ;-).

>5) Yes, it is harder than hell getting 6th dan and above.
>       My heartfelt congratulations to all who reach it.
>       In my heart I hope to get there someday(way in the future).

If not in this life, then in the next ;-).

>Granted this is only the knowledge that I have.  Any opinions/knowledge
> of other people are welcome.   See below.
>
>I have found my WA.  Flames won't hurt me.

Steve
Xref: sparky rec.martial-arts:15862 rec.arts.dance:962 rec.folk-dancing:2109
From: sutin@phaeton.UCSC.EDU (Brian Sutin)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts,rec.arts.dance,rec.folk-dancing
Subject: Re: Dance Notatation
Date: 17 Dec 1992 03:00:07 GMT
Organization: Lick Observatory UCSC
NNTP-Posting-Host: phaeton.ucsc.edu

In article <1992Dec16.130956.1865@sura.net> klong@sura.net (K.A. Long) writes:

>I'm a martial artist and I've looking to document some of
>my moves (forms,katas, etc).

Several others have mentioned Labanotation.  This is no longer used in
folkdance to any extent, as far as I know.  It has been replaced with
a new system, which closely resembles musical notation.  I have heard
about this system but not seen it.  From hearsay I have heard that it is
rather intuitive (Labanotation is terrible) and one can actually figure
out a dance months later from this stuff with comments like "He really
did turn his head 3/4 while pointing the left foot inwards!" The
"musical notes" resemble stick figures of people in some way, I believe.
I will try to remember to ask for more info.

Brian Sutin				sutin@lick.ucsc.edu
Lick Observatory, UCSC			Santa Cruz, CA 95064
    Fred:   "May I rescue you?"
    Ginger: "No, thank you.  I prefer being in distress."
From: matthew@cs.mun.ca (Matthew J. Newhook)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Finishing techniques
Date: 13 Dec 92 14:38:44 GMT
Organization: CS Dept., Memorial University of Newfoundland

ph2sct@sdcc14.ucsd.edu (Dzu Nguyen) writes:

>I think what I would do is put a nikyo (aikido, the 'tupperware'
>technique). Drop him with my center thereby ripping out his
>shoulder. Then I would keep the pin because even if he is 7' 300
>lbs. and using PCP, he won't be able to get out of the pin without
>ripping his arm off.  As for the second thing i would do,
>well...that's all folks.

No, for people this strung out that would not work.  The person would
just stand right up, with no regard to his broken wrist.  A similar
problem results with Sankyo, and Kotegeishi.  The person would simply
let their joint get broken.  Techniques that rely on pain, such as the
above, imo simply would not work.  I think that Iriminage, or Shionage
would be a far superior choice in this position.  Just drive his head
through the ground, that should stop him :)

>Dave (using Dzu's account)

Matthew
-- 
Matthew Newhook (matthew@engr.mun.ca)       |  "...get on with the fascination
Faculty of Engineering and Applied Science  |  the real relation, the underlying
Memorial University of Newfoundland, Canada |  theme" - Limelight, Rush