HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: fjvwing@cs.vu.nl (FJ!!)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: practicing roles
Date: 26 Aug 92 11:34:33 GMT

Arnold, don't mail me a message first and then post the same message on
the net. It makes me feel like you are sending me generic e-junk-mail.
:)

amz@iguana.cis.ohio-state.edu (Arnold M Zwicky) writes:
>you aren't going to tell me that you would have developed exactly
>the same mannerisms, behavior, voice, *vocabulary*, etc., if you'd
>grown up in rural north china, amongst the nomadic lapps, etc.?

Of course, there is no way to answer this conclusively. All I can say
is 'I really don't know....'

>one way to develop this stuff is from models.  another is by
>*rejecting* parts of the models you are given.  different models to
>reject in different places, so different results.

>i didn't mean to suggest that having gay role models was the only,
>or necessarily the main, route to learning to act gay.

'...but from what you've told me I might.' You see, this doesn't adress
any of my circumstances: I had _severe_ negative feedback on them, I've
wanted to get rid of them myself, I've tried hard, they feel as natural
to me as lying in the arms of a man.

From what little I know about cognitive psychology and pedagogics, I
can't have acquired them from learning: I had no models, I had nothing
to gain, my feedback was negative (<- biggie, in most models and
theories of learning and motivation), I did not want to reject the
models I was given, the difference between how most boys and me act has
always been there.

Of course, you can now go Freudian on me and claim that it is my
unconcious who had ulterior motives in acquiring them for me. I hope
you don't try to.

							FJ!!
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: katbea@auto-trol.com (Kathy Beatty)
Subject: Re: Mighty Real associations, was: musical finale
Organization: Auto-trol Technology Corporation -- Denver, Colorado
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 00:33:41 GMT

bgonzal@math.rutgers.edu (Bil Gonzalez) writes:
: 
: attention to the film.  I also recall his insinuating that he has had
: motss encounters in his past.
:  
: > >Rumors are
: > >Penny Marshall or Jonathan Demme, neither of which would be my
: > >immediate choice.
: > 

Well, we all have our own preferences, don't we?  I would never have
considered Penny Marshall to be a motss for Oliver Stone, when did
she have the operation? 


8^)  8^)  8^)


Kathy
From: IO81409@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (Ailsa N.T. Murphy)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Beyond GAY and LESBIAN
Date: 27 Aug 92 18:28:23 GMT
 <1992Aug26.004819.1437@syacus.acus.oz.au>
Organization: University of Maine System

has nobody out here ever plugged a watermelon?

                                   -ailsa
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: norris@infonode.ingr.com (Jeff Norris)
Subject: Re: What I have been doing (long)
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 17:41:15 GMT

harris@currituck.cs.unc.edu (Trey Harris) writes of an encounter with
someone who had cruised him earlier:
>"...I don't usually do this.  It's just sometimes, I get sick
>of my roomates, and I just have to come out here and, you know..."
>[...]
>I smiled at him.  I felt this was someone who needed reassurance,
>someone who was unsure of himself.  I offered him my hand once again.
>I gave it a friendly squeeze.  "Yeah.  I'll see you around, probably.
>I'm around here often."
>I waved to him, and walked away.  For some reason, this man made me
>feel as though he had such deep feelings inside, feelings that would
>crush the average man.  What had he gone through?  Was he closeted and
>couldn't take the strain of this boy walking up to him, filigreed as I
>was with pink triangles and gay liberation slogans?  Was he lovelorn
>or lovelost, having only the bathrooms as an outlet for his passions?

Been there, done that (the Closet scene), and you're probably right on
all counts.  This man feels that he has no control over his 'urges'
...that if he did, he could avoid lurking around public restrooms.
He thinks this is the only way to meet other men who are interested in
sex; and that all those who he meets feel the same way.  He probably
thought that since you didn't follow him into the restroom, you were
just waiting for someone better looking.

What he doesn't realize is that he is indeed homosexual and there is 
nothing _wrong_ with that.

>I glanced once more, back at this tragic figure sitting on the steps
>to the classics building, and promised myself that I would come back
>next Sunday, and learn more about him.  No matter what his problems,
>whatever his complaints might be, he seemed like he could use a
>friend.

>And that is one thing I can give to him.

I applaude your attitude and hope that you can help this guy (assuming he
wants to be helped).  Sometimes a positive friendly encounter does wonders
for one's self esteem.  On the other hand, be careful not to give him the 
impression that you're flirting, or he will think you're just "playing the
game".  And whatever you do, *don't* meet him in the restroom. :-)

jeff - who's glad he found a better way to meet interesting men.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: asente@adobe.com (A Usenet Pal)
Subject: Re: Bobbie
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 23:21:06 GMT

In article <1992Aug31.190840.22041@microsoft.com> bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver) writes:

Who the fuck cares what he writes.

Bob, listen to me.

You are stupid.

Worse, you are boring.

Go away.

      -paul asente
	   asente@adobe.com   ...decwrl!adobe!asente   moo-bear@cs.stanford.edu

When Alice saw what was about to happen, she began to scream
uncontrollably...
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu (Albert Lunde)
Subject: Re: christian anti-homophobia resource
Followup-To: soc.motss
Originator: lunde@casbah.acns.nwu.edu
Reply-To: Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu (Albert Lunde)
Organization: Ministry of Silly Walks
Distribution: soc
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 14:47:41 GMT

In article <1992Aug29.155704.9273@news.acns.nwu.edu> Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu (Albert Lunde) writes:
>I want to let those who might be interested, know about some things
>a friend of mine is doing in anti-homophobia education.

I got an e-mail follow-up to this posting but I could not reply to
the message (the mail bounced).

Would the person who sent me mail, send me a valid Internet address or
UUCP path-address.





-- 
 Albert Lunde         | Interfaith  |     *Y*Y*      "A branch on the
 Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu |  Bisexual   |      *Y*        tree of life"
 alunde@nuacvm.bitnet |  Feminist   |.......|.........................
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: coren@osf.org (Robert Coren)
Subject: Re: memorial wishes
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 14:16:56 GMT

In article <l9oa0aINNnel@mizar.usc.edu>, adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
> In article <1992Aug25.144955.23174@osf.org> 
> coren@osf.org (Robert Coren) writes:
> > In article <l9ivj4INNejc@mizar.usc.edu>, 
> > adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
> > > I think I'd rather die than read _Middlemarch_ again.
> >
> > Sigh. Arne, I think you and I had better not discuss literature with
> > each other. 
> 
> If you're a big fan of the Victorians, then you're
> probably right.  But I'd be perfectly civil were we
> to discuss pre- or post-Victorian novelists.  

Such a leap -- to equate one novel with "the Victorians". I'm not
really up on the subject, apart from Eliot and Dickens; I just happen
to think that George Eliot/Maryann Evans was one of the keenest
observers of the human character to come along in any era, and that
 _Middlemarch_ is a masterpiece. But I promised not to discuss it.

> 
> >             (I was beginning to think we shouldn't discuss artistic
> > matters at all, but then you put "Nachtzauber" on your all-time list;
> > there's obviously hope for you. :-))
> 
> You know, I could have put any number of things on my list,
> but Hugo Wolf seemed most appropriate when I wrote it.

Hmm... well, there's some overlap, but not much. If you look at my
list (posted a couple of days ago), I think you'll see what I mean.
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Too straight looking to be gay??? (was re: UNGAY GAY)
Date: 28 Aug 1992 11:45:08 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <vanyel.715024092@camelot> 
vanyel@camelot.bradley.edu (Alan Williams) writes:

[...]
> Personally, I don't like "nelly" or "macho" behavior.  My *reason* is
> because the kind of people I've encountered who utilize these behaviors
> have struck me as vain, superficial, and out to attract as much attention
> as possible.  

For god's sake.

> Note: I freely admit that this impression is a result of
> their personalities interacting with mine.  

Please keep the subjective origins of your dislike for these 
behaviors uppermost in mind.

> In fact, I can occasionally
> lapse into a two-second "camp" phase with certain friends, but I generally
> feel slightly queasy afterward.  

Ahem.  

Why "queasy"?  Afraid people might think you're a girl?

> For those of you who've become lost (I
> almost got lost myself 8-), this is a Reason.  It contains the presumption
> that this set of behaviors may not be completely rational; it also contains
> the presumption that if any blame exists (in this case I can't see any for
> anyone), it's not restricted to the Other Party.

Am I misreading, or do you really mean to *blame* other people 
for acting in ways that you dislike?  If you've got a problem with
nellies and butches, it's *your* problem.

> Now, let's look at an Excuse for the same issue.  I could say that I don't
> like "nelly" or "macho" behavior because the people who indulge in those
> behaviorisms have severe personal problems if they have to act "that way."

Your presumption leaves me speechless.

> Note that this implies not only blame, but also blame on the part of "other
> parties."
>
> I realize, of course, this is also how I interpret the terms.

Yeah, well, it's not the way *I* interpret the terms or
the behaviors under discussion.

> No, I'd say it's more so.  I've never really understood the concept of a
> "gay community" any more than I understand why *any* minority should feel
> obliged to cut itself off from the "mainstream" society.  

Are you for real?

> Maybe that's my
> problem (for those of you who think I've got a problem): I think that
> society needs integration more than it needs to be split up by little
> groups that can't look past their own noses to see the world as a whole.

It's a small world after all
It's a small world after all
It's a small world after all
It's a small small world

> And that goes for majority and minority alike.
>
> Chew on *that* for a while.  8-)

I can't imagine being so famished that I'd want to put 
*that* in my mouth.

Arne


Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: RE: Sim? status?
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 92 00:59:41 GMT


In article <28AUG92.16001074@enh.nist.gov>
aberson@enh.nist.gov (Sim Aberson) writes:

>In a previous article, anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess
>Anderson) wrote:

>>>has anyone heard from or had contact from Sim Anderson?

>>We're not married *yet*,

>There's still a chance?  Good thing I'm still here.

Even if there weren't a chance (there is, there is!), it's a
good thing you're still here.  The accounts you posted, plus
the other reports one sees, are all pretty terrifying.

>>besides we probably wouldn't change
>>our names.  :-)  Nothing wrong with Jess Aberson, though.

>That sounds pretty good.  Sim Anderson sounds good, too.
>We'll have to see how this all works out.

It shouldn't be too difficult, given all this agreeableness.

>Sim, skimming, waiting for the computers to go down, 

They're doing it too?  I guess it's getting *very*
fashionable.  Why not, after all, it *is* a fun thing.

>waiting to dodge curfew.

How do you do that?  Sleep in a cot at the office, slink
along dark streets behind shrubs that used to be a block
away, or what?

<> To forget all the rules and act naturally is a reward
<> akin to heaven! -- Jason Coughlin
-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mls@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (mike.siemon)
Subject: Re: Insults
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 01:11:08 GMT
Summary: naw; you jist gotta look at the captialization

In article <1992Aug26.003017.11315@beaver.cs.washington.edu>,
wendyt@cs.washington.edu (Wendy Thrash) writes:

> In article <1992Aug25.235505.9336@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
writes:

> >What a maroon (as usual.)

> Steve, as a . . . well, not quite graduate, but at least long-time student of
> the University of Chicago, I must protest your continued use of our school's
> nickname as an insult.  The Maroon of Chicago are a proud bunch, and we blush

Maroon is the school color, as crimson is Harvard's.  As a long time Bugs
Bunny fan, longer indeed by more than a decade than my association with UC,
and an alumnus, I totally approve of Steve's usage.  In my day (whoosh go
the winds of time ...; the 25th reunion just passed ...), one would NOT
have found anyone labelling a student there "a Maroon" any more than one
calls an inmate of H. Yard "a Crimson."  Supposing that we may have fallen
on evil days (as long gone alumni are wont to speculate), I would still
allow a distinction between the *proper* noun usage of Maroon and the
improper (but often appropriate) adjectiveal "maroon" which is of course
a metathesis of the actual insult intended, as a classical scholar and
master of rehtoric like that wascally wabbit would well know.

BTW: I've never had a clear take on the semantic difference between
crimson and maroon -- save that I have an image of crimson as bloodier.
(etymologically, crimson is from kermes, a dye extract from beetles.)


-- 
Michael L. Siemon		The Son of Man has come eating and drinking;
				and you say "Behold, a glutton and a drunkard,
mls@usl.com			a friend of tax collectors and sinners."  And
standard disclaimer		yet, Wisdom is justified by all her children.
From: bfbear@penn.Gwinnett.COM (Penn Collins)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Folsom ST Fair
Date: 1 Sep 92 19:55:31 GMT

exotica@milton.u.washington.edu (Tsilke Pearlman) writes:

> The only available rooms *we* found were at Inn San Fransisco, for $75 an nig
> and we booked those 2 months ago. If you can't find crash space you're 
> going to want to try further away from Folsom St itself...Get a gay travel gu
> and start calling - orlook at the cheap nongay places: Travelodge and Motel
> 6 and the like.
> 
> See yez there!
> 

I just stayed at  a t'rific Bed and Breakfast
the OBRERO HOTEL on Stockton (I know, not really close but lots of busses)
the rates are great at 55-65$ a night (cash, no credit cards/check and you
you must pay 2 nites ahead....AND it is run (owned?) by an interesting
lesbian (I hope it is ok to say that)- let me know if you need info (e-mail me)

oh, the breakfast is great (do NOT read the paper at the table, Bambi WILL make you
put it away OR move to a table by yourself)- lots of hot fresh bread, soft boiled
eggs,seasonal fruit, platters of cheeses,ham,salami, one morning bagels and
rolls too). and the folks staying there were a delight)

oh, this place is tricky to find (it is a former brothel) and the first floor
is a chinese green grocer) oh- ask for a room AWAY from the china town side!!!!
(the noise was pretty bad), no private bath, but there is a lav in your room
(hot and cold running water) 4 rooms share a bathroom (not bad at all). no
handicap accessabilty and no smoking...

Penn
From: roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: musical finale
Date: 23 Aug 92 22:50:31 GMT
Reply-To: roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips)
Organization: Quantime Ltd, London (software for market research)

In article <1992Aug23.153731.19131@watson.ibm.com>,
jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com (Jake Coughlin) writes:
> Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison):
> > (I tend to prefer
> > _Into The Groove_ or _Express Yourself_ for dancing... ;-)
> 
> _express yourself_ would work, but somehow, _into the groove_
> would be *too* morbid for a funeral... :-)

I don't think he meant the Ciccone Youth version. :-)
-- 
Roger Phillips                            roger@quantime.co.uk
"To my surprise I find out I have a great imagination." -- Ivana Trump
From: wood@siemens.com. (Jim Wood)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: memorial wishes
Date: 28 Aug 92 12:49:51 GMT

coren@osf.org (Robert Coren) writes:

>adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
>>coren@osf.org (Robert Coren) writes:
>>>adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
>>>>I think I'd rather die than read _Middlemarch_ again.

>>>Sigh. Arne, I think you and I had better not discuss literature with
>>>each other. 
>> 
>>If you're a big fan of the Victorians, then you're
>>probably right.  But I'd be perfectly civil were we
>>to discuss pre- or post-Victorian novelists.  

>Such a leap -- to equate one novel with "the Victorians". I'm not
>really up on the subject, apart from Eliot and Dickens; I just happen
>to think that George Eliot/Maryann Evans was one of the keenest
>observers of the human character to come along in any era, and that
>_Middlemarch_ is a masterpiece. But I promised not to discuss it.

Getting into the disagreement, I agree with Robert.  "Middlemarch" is
definitely worth reading, whatever the effort, for the character
development and social commentary.  It's very long but absorbing.

"Middlemarch," however, is the quintessential English Victorian novel,
sprawling in scope yet very detailed in nature.  One of the qualities
it shares with so many other Victorian novels is that it is a love story
told from the viewpoint of a woman.

--
Jim Wood [jwood@siemens.siemens.com] (609) 734-3643
"Rise up on the wings of eagles, and two step among the stars.
 You are not forgotten.  Your smile will echo forever."
   -- Ryerson Schwark, to my friend Rob Bernardo.
From: John_Graves@cellbio.duke.edu
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Tea parties
Date: 28 Aug 92 14:02:26 GMT
Organization: Duke University Medical Center

In article <1992Aug28.074533.29129@reed.edu> nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
writes:
>Bob makes another insightful analogy, this time between motss and a
>tea party.
>
>Why are tearooms (as in bathroom trade tearooms) called tearooms?
>Certainly we don't have tea there.

T(oilet) rooms, silly boy!

My housemate recalls that when he first came to Duke an acquaintance told him
that there were many T-rooms on campus where he could meet gay men.

He thought Duke was so cool since it had little cafes where one could have tea
with sociable gay men. 

John Allan Graves
From: roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Beyond GAY and LESBIAN
Date: 31 Aug 92 21:15:14 GMT
Reply-To: roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips)
Organization: Quantime Ltd, London (software for market research)

(Ailsa N.T. Murphy) writes:
>    has nobody out here ever plugged a watermelon?

Not a watermelon, no,
but I once had a surprisingly pleasurable time
with a banana skin.

(BTW, I think I've seen the film Jess mentioned;
the copy I saw had an American soundtrack,
but Portuguese subtitles.)

-- 
Roger Phillips                            roger@quantime.co.uk
"*crib-biting* in horses, a vicious habit of biting the manger, etc.,
and swallowing air" -- Chambers English Dictionary (1988)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: coren@osf.org (Robert Coren)
Subject: RE: Redefining Self (was a thread I won't get involved in)
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 21:37:25 GMT

In article <1SEP92.14432512@enh.nist.gov>, aberson@enh.nist.gov writes:
> Oh my.  This sounds too much like Daivd's family.  He is an only child,
> has 11 sisters and two brothers, all of them his first cousins.  In
> addition, his father is his uncle, making him his own first cousin.
> Shall I leave it to you all to figure this all out (except you, Bil,
> you already know)?

Sounds like "marriage with deceased wife's sister" to me (see Act I
Finale of _Iolanthe_).
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Re: Brian Blessed
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 18:44:58 GMT

In article <wood.715437919@jfred> wood@siemens.com. (Jim Wood) writes:
>shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Mary Shafer) writes about various BBC series
>but doesn't mention the subject header, Brian Blessed.
>
>I'm curious; what was the original subject of this thread and how did
>it concern the actor Brian Blessed?  Just last night, I was watching
>episodes of "I, Claudius" in which he plays Caesar Augustus.  He was
>quite good, and I was trying to remember from where I heard his name.
>Now I remember!

Well, when the topic of _Flash Gordon_ came up (which is NOT the original
original thread), I reflexively went into lordosis at the mention of his
name.  I might even have mentioned his name myself--I can't remember, and
I'm not responsible for my behavior under these circumstances.

Brian Blessed is ordinarily bearded; _I Claudius_ was an exception.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: tovah@panix.com (Tovah Hollander)
Subject: Re: Snaps (no, not *that* kind, Elizabeth)(was Re: new queer terminolog
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 21:23:59 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix & Internet, NYC

I'm being especially clueless here, I'm sure, but I've just got to ask:

*What* kind of snaps should Elizabeth not mistake this kind for?


-- Tovah Hollander
   tovah@panix.com -OR- tovah@onion.salad.mssm.edu (preferred)
From: mattm@Apple.COM (Matthew Melmon)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: On accuracy and anderson
Keywords: In error?  *moi*?
Date: 1 Sep 92 19:21:36 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

There seems to have been some question as to whether I exaggerated Mr.
Anderson's contribution to 'The Sargon Incident.'  While it is 
qualitative at best, the following statistic lends some credence to
the claim - especially when combined with statistics on threads:

Author Top 30 (Number)
----------------------
 1  370014 218 Jess Anderson (anderson@macc.wisc.edu)

Mr. Anderson, in fact, contributed nearly forty more articles than
the runner up - *MADEMOISELLE* (sp? My French and Miss Piggy's are
related) Adolphson, chez WH.  That is roughly twenty percent more
than zee runner up, herself an avid contributor.

In all fairness, Mr. Anderson is probably not responsible for half
of 'The Sargon Incident.'  Perhaps thirty-five percent?

And perhaps someone else had brought this to Mr. Anderson's attention
as well; I don't remember apologizing for the observation.

Melmac the Unmentionable
from Someplace Tim Pierce doesn't want to Move
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: pieter@cs.caltech.edu (Pieter Hazewindus)
Subject: Homosexualization of the New York Times (was Re: Garth Brooks)
Organization: California Institute of Technology
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 20:51:49 GMT

jontom@ileaf.com (JT Kittredge) writes:
>
>On an unrelated note, the homosexualization of the _New York Times_
>continues apace. When they fall, they fall hard.

I have noticed a positive change in the obits recently.  The NYT has
finally recognized that you can be survived by your longtime
companion.  No more of the immensely cruel "His longtime companion was
So Andso.  There are no immediate survivors."

I used to think my mother was a freak because she read obits.  Now I do
it myself.

Pieter Hazewindus                               pieter@cs.caltech.edu