From: buboo@alf.uib.no (Ove Ruben R Olsen)
Subject: Re: All this nonsense... *sigh*
Organization: University of Bergen, Norway
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 20:04:27 GMT


USENET DISCLAIMER: This is *_N O T_* a flame. It is some comments to a
		   article written on July 23.
		   If you take this as a flame, you are either to proud,
		   have a low level of understanding, or are just a asshole
		   in general.

LittleOne writes:

[... stuff deleted due to the d} syndrome ...]

>IF most of you have been paying attention and actually using IRC
>as a learning tool, you would know that no one country is perfect.

Sounds great... I did it back in the old days... discussion that actualy
took place back in the numeric days:

Me>    Please tell me about if Charles Bukowski writes the truth about 
       your country ?
Other> Who is Charles Bukowski ?
Me>    One of the most famous cotemporary American writers. Translated into
       perhaps 35 languages... sold over 40.000.000 copies worldwide.
Other> Never heard of him, and remeber my major is American literature. 
       What does he write about ?
Me>    The "backside" of your country. Not skid row, but the level above.
       Well... some skidrow too :-)
Other> Hmm... there is no skid row here !
Me>    Heard about the movie "Barfly" ?
Other> Yes, I saw that one. Disgusting !
...
...

And so we went on...  I just wanted to check out some facts.
That much for wanting to learn about the Great contry :-)
Most american has not even heard of CB... Sad IMO.
I think it all comes down to education, basic education. I belive that
USA is so big that they have enuff to learn about their own country. But
a small country like norway... well... we are small, so we need to learn
about the outside world. To communicate with the world... We are too small
to have any influence at all in the world commuity. Since we are small
a lot of people out there (even in Europe :-) considder us undeveloped,
stupid and babaric, even in the 90'.

And during the Gulf War:

Me>    Hmmm ... to me it seems that the US is just going after the oil. The
       rest are just words for the people...  
Other> What ! You motherfucker ! We don't care about the oil. We care about 
       the freedom of the poor people. We can get oil from whoever we want.

Yepp... he called me that... :-)

I had some very stereotypic views about USA, they all got smashed with
the help of IRC. Problem is that after a while I began to see a pattern
on how Average Joe American behaved, felt and though about a lot of things. 
(I would guess that on IRC there are a lot of AJA's around (and a lot of 
Ola Normann too for that matter)).

>How many of you out there 'bashing' (or otherwise noting the not
>so nice characterists of) another country have even been outside 
>your own country?  

It is easier for an European to visit another country. A real different
culture... And most has been outside their own country.
For instance, sweden is quite different from norway, not to speak about
the countries down south :-)
You can find some similarities thruout Europe, but there are a lot of
differencies.
All the people I know goes abroad on their holidays. Mostly to the south, which
is quite far away from the cold north :-)

[... stuff deleted due to the d} syndrome ...]

>IF you haven't experienced a culture first hand, how could you 
>possibly understand it?  

[... stuff deleted due to the d2} syndrome ...]

You can't. But you will speak out of your knowlegde. The knowlegde I
gained with IRC is the knowlgede I will use in real life. The knowlegde
I gained over the univ-books I'll use in my work... and so on...
I will take what I learn to be the truth until someone tell me otherwise,
or I experience otherwise.

>I'm not out to bash my own country, I am what I would call an embarassed
>but proud American.  I do like my country and would not rather be in 
>another, but for pete's sake stop and LISTEN to what is being said rather
>than the words or the emotion behind it.  No other country is perfect
>either, did I mention that Finland has horrible taxes?  

Horrible taxes, but they have (as most scandinavian countries) free 
education, even on the university level, free healt care a social security
that is fairly good.
I'm proud to pay my taxes (about 35% - 40% of my total income). 

>Did we mention
>that Germany played a part in two major wars we'd all like to forget about?

To forget a war is not a good thing, it will only start a new one.

>Did we mention that Japan's people work so hard that they have little time
>for play (as defined by american standards)?  

>Look, they're not perfect, 
>nor are we, so get off your high horses and quit bashing!

They are perfect in their eyes... Sweden is perfect for a swede, Norway is
perfect for a norwegian, USA is perfect for a American... 

\Ruben.

PS: 
   If you want to flame, flame the whole article, not just parts.
:DS


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    Ove Ruben R Olsen, Professional VI user. EMAIL: Ove.R.Olsen@ubb.uib.no
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