HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Thursday, 5 Nov 1992 03:48:51 CST
From: <U60145@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Re: Washing machine
 <1992Nov4.003249.27970@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> <bpn.77.720850308@po.CWRU.Edu>
 <Nov04.201828.22566@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU>

In article <Nov04.201828.22566@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU>,
dd908821@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Douglas Deden) says:
>
Isn't this somewhat like a Lexus key?  (only round obviously...)
>--
>
>
>
>The lock Brian decribed (from the coin box on a washing machine) is
>not a tubular lock (at least not like the type on pop machines).
>My family owns a laudromat and I have spent many hours emptying the
>coins.  Unfortunately, this was several years ago, before I became
>involved with locksmithing.  Anyway, the key is shaped similarly to
>a standard key, but instead of having teeth cut into one or both
>edges of the blank, a jagged groove is cut in the wide side of the
>blank.  Let's see if ASCII can do it justice.
>
>
>
>
>
>       /----\
>      /      \----------------------
>     |          \--\        /----\  |
>     |              \--/\--/      \/|
>      \      /----------------------
>       \----/
>
>
>Not very good, oh well.  Imagine that the groove along the side has
>thickness that the drawing can't show.  Maybe you've seen the
>Lexus commercial with all of the falling keys?  The Lexus key has a
>similar design, if I remember correctly.
>
>
>Doug Deden
>Civil Engineering Department
>Colorado State University
>dd908821@longs.lance.colostate.edu
>
>
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: mgarber@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Max D Garber)
Subject: Re: interest in car alarm group?
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 15:48:49 GMT

In article <9486@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> ebe+@pitt.edu (Elmer Beachley) writes:
>
>Gary:
>
>Auto alarms and security are regularly discussed in rec.audio.car.
>
>Elmer Beachley etb@cs.pitt.edu

Yes, but it would be nice to have it specialized!
-- 
THE HYPEMAN.
1983 Pontiac 2000 SE   1983 Honda Nighthawk 650   DECEMBER 12,1992
   "BABY BOOOM"             MINT CONDITION         "TIE THE KNOT"
 'SYSTEM FOR SALE'      "FOR SALE"-Best Offer!     ^^Any Advice?^^
From: psionic@wam.umd.edu (Sixth Plane of Hell)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Re: Jammed locks after picking
Date: 9 Nov 92 03:29:30 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park

In article <yabi.5.720958264@ellis.uchicago.edu> yabi@ellis.uchicago.edu (Scott Thomas Yabiku) writes:
>Has anyone had this happen?  I've been practicing my picking skills on
>some pin tumbler locks in my dorm.  First, I picked the lock to my room 
>door.  But after picking and sucessfully unlocking it, the lock became 
>jammed (neither further picking nor the key would work), and I had to have
>my lock replaced.  I tried picking another lock (same type as my door), and 
>it too seems to be jammed.  
>Why is this happening?  I didn't force the locks in any way; my picking and 
>tension are very gentle, as they should be.  Could they be cheap locks?
>They were fairly easy to pick.
>-yabi
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Have a nice day!  :)
>

What is probably happening is that you are knocking out the master pins during
your picking. This happens a lot in locks found at school because they are often
great grand mastered keys which means that the pins in the lock are not solid like a typical lock, but rather in several pieces in order to accomodate many 
different keys. However when you master key a lock like this you must use
many small pins that are easily dislodged when you pick them. This doesn't
happen when you use a key because the key actually holds them in place.   
Unfortunately the picks do not..

psionic@wam.umd.edu
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: miolnir@stein.u.washington.edu (Scot Thorstad)
Subject: Re: Jammed locks after picking
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 19:10:18 GMT

In article <1992Nov10.063234.19846@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes:
>holman@pop.psu.edu (Darryl J. Holman) writes:
>
>:   What material are the Best pins made of?  Perhaps they are made of a
>: harder material than my picks.  I make picks out of broken-off street
>: sweeper brushes.  Are these too soft to use.  Many years ago, I used
>: to be able to find good quality spring steel laying around in 
>: industral areas.  I think they were used as supper-straps for holding
>: machinery down to palettes.  But those days are gone, and now all I find
>: is plastic straps.  Where does one get good spring steel for making
>: picks and tension wrenches?
>
>All pins, that I have encountered, are softer than spring steel. I don't
>think the strapping was spring steel - too soft. Generally, you cannot
>bend spring steel to a sharp right angle, without it fracturing. I still
>see metal strapping used, on rare occasion. You might check with local
>industrial suppliers. Maybe they have a whole spool of it that they cannot
>unload because nearly everyone is using nylon. If so, maybe you could make
>a deal with them - and have enough to supply several thousand locksmiths
>with pick material for the rest of their lives.
>
>Bill

<delurks>

A little while ago I made a great pick out of an old hacksaw blade.
It's good steel and just the right thickness for the job.  The only 
problem was that after picking my front door lock a few dozen times
i wore enough metal off the pins that the key wouldn't work.  Shouldn't
have raked it.  Hope this helps.

scot
From: holman@pop.psu.edu (Darryl J. Holman)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Re: Jammed locks after picking
Date: 10 Nov 92 01:20:07 GMT
Organization: Penn State Population Research Institute

In article <1992Nov9.201221.18908@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes:
>It is possible that there are some thin pins in the lock. If the person
>is raking the pins, they might jump and tip on edge. Depending on which
>pin did so, it could cause either the master or change key (or both) to
>not work any more.
>
  I have also had Best removable-core type locks get jammed after attempts
at picking.  The key would only go about halfway into the lock.  I figured
that, perhaps, tiny metal filings were comming off of my pick.  So, I
squirted some graphite into the locks, raked the locks, tapped the
core a few times with the handle of a screwdriver, and succeeded in
getting the lock to work again.  

  What material are the Best pins made of?  Perhaps they are made of a
harder material than my picks.  I make picks out of broken-off street
sweeper brushes.  Are these too soft to use.  Many years ago, I used
to be able to find good quality spring steel laying around in 
industral areas.  I think they were used as supper-straps for holding
machinery down to palettes.  But those days are gone, and now all I find
is plastic straps.  Where does one get good spring steel for making
picks and tension wrenches?

Darryl Holman    Penn State University, Some third-world county, USA
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: ncrwater@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca (Latala - ICR)
Subject: Re: Identify this key....
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 20:05:15 GMT

In article <1992Nov9.194448.9406@ornl.gov> s4i@sws11.ctd.ornl.gov (Jim Simmons) writes:
>
>Actually, the Weigand effect is magnetic.  The "keys" I've seen contain
>a series of short wires.  The wires are made up of two different metals
>(the core is different that the outside).  When passed through a magnetic
>field and then run past a read head, a pulse is generated.  The pulse is
>either positive or negative depending on the position of the wire relative
>to the read head.  Treat each wire as a bit and you have a binary number.

The Weigand wires are manufactured in a odd fashion. After heating they are
are physically twisted while cooling. This causes some sort of change to
happen to the actual wire (I think the composition of the wire has some-
thing to do with it also).

Once this is done the wire has an interesting magnetic property. If it's
magnetized in a certain orientation and then the extenal field is slowly 
reversed the magnetic field of the wire remains stable until some trigger
point. Once the trigger point is reached the magnetic orientation of the 
whole wire quickly changes to align with the externally applied field.

This makes the wire suitable for use with a reading mechanism because
the output pulse of the wire changing magnetic polarity doesn't depend on
the rate of change of the external field, just it's intensity.

>The advantage to this over traditional magnetic stripes is that the keys
>are permanent, oblivious to magnetic fields (they can't be erased),
>the read head does not have to come into contact with they key (just
>close), and they don't wear out.

The keys actually require an extenal magnetic field to read them. With
many of the readers there are two magnets inside the reader. As you with-
draw the key the wire is magnetized in one orientation. The second magnet
is aligned with the opposite polarity so it's going to try to flip the 
field of the wire. As the wire approaches the second magnet it does flip
it's field which is then picked up by a nearby coil to 'read' the wire.
-- 
ncrwater@uwaterloo,ca
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: Jammed locks after picking
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 20:11:04 GMT

miolnir@stein.u.washington.edu (Scot Thorstad) writes:
: >
: >All pins, that I have encountered, are softer than spring steel. I don't
: >think the strapping was spring steel - too soft. Generally, you cannot
: >bend spring steel to a sharp right angle, without it fracturing. I still
: >see metal strapping used, on rare occasion. You might check with local
: >industrial suppliers. Maybe they have a whole spool of it that they cannot
: >unload because nearly everyone is using nylon. If so, maybe you could make
: >a deal with them - and have enough to supply several thousand locksmiths
: >with pick material for the rest of their lives.
: >
: >Bill
: 
: <delurks>

: A little while ago I made a great pick out of an old hacksaw blade.
: It's good steel and just the right thickness for the job.  The only 
: problem was that after picking my front door lock a few dozen times
: i wore enough metal off the pins that the key wouldn't work.  Shouldn't
: have raked it.  Hope this helps.

Another source is a place that repairs band saw blades. Many of them are
also the right thickness. You could also just go to Sears or a discount
store and buy a 1/4" or 3/8" bandsaw blade. It would cost a few dollars,
but would supply enough material for dozens of picks.

By the way, Scot - you forgot to relurk on departing.

Bill
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: jl52800@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (The Incredible Mr.Wong)
Subject: HELP: Manipulating combo locks
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 21:31:38 GMT

Hello there. As the subject says, I need some help manipulating combo locks.
I understand the basics of how they work, and have instructions on how to manipulate them, but I can't seem to do it. I've been practicing on an old Master combo lock with no luck. Can anyone out there give me some helpful hints? Thanks in
advance
From: lairdb@crash.cts.com (Laird P. Broadfield)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Re: Washing machine
Date: 5 Nov 92 13:08:59 GMT
Organization: "Well, a head on top, an arm on each side, two legs...."

In <Nov04.201828.22566@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> dd908821@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Douglas Deden) writes:

>The lock Brian decribed (from the coin box on a washing machine) is
>not a tubular lock (at least not like the type on pop machines). 
>My family owns a laudromat and I have spent many hours emptying the
>coins.  Unfortunately, this was several years ago, before I became
>involved with locksmithing.  Anyway, the key is shaped similarly to
>a standard key, but instead of having teeth cut into one or both
>edges of the blank, a jagged groove is cut in the wide side of the
>blank.  Let's see if ASCII can do it justice.

[drawing deleted]
Aha.  Many high school lockers (the kind with built-in combo locks)
use an identical scheme (although I'm sure the coinbox one is of 
higher quality.)  When I was working for a school, I took several of
these apart: note that the key is extremely simple to deduce from
the mechanism, and the mechanism is extrememly easy to disassemble
(in my experience.)


-- 
Laird P. Broadfield     lairdb@crash.cts.com    ...{ucsd, nosc}!crash!lairdb
Hi!  I'm a shareware signature!  Send $5 if you use me, send $10 for manual!
From: andrew@cubetech.com
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Re: Combination Locks
Date: 7 Nov 92 11:27:46 GMT
Organization: Cube Technologies, Inc.

In article <Bx9xup.MJ2@news.cso.uiuc.edu> cs101c96@eng-nxt04.cso.uiuc.edu (cs101 student) writes:
>2) What makes Best locks so damn hard to pick? I worked on the one on my  
>dorm closet for 45 minutes with no luck. I took the lock outta the door  
>for an examination, and couldn't really figure it out. Is there a certain  
>method to go about picking these?

The Best lock you are talking about is probably a removable core lock
(they are very popular at schools and institutions).  You can insert a
key and pull the whole core out for replacement.  That's because the
lock has two shear-lines:  the normal shear line that opens the lock,
and a control shear line above the normal one that removes the whole
core.

The problem is that you must have ever pin sheared off on the same
shear line to do anything.  If you have some of the pins sheared off
at the control line and some sheared off on the normal line, the lock
will remain locked.

Andrew Boardman says If you bend the tip of your torsion wrench and
put the torsion on the bottom of the keyway you will only put tension
on the normal line and picking it will be easier.  I haven't tried it
yet though...  has anyone else?


andrew
-- 
andrew@cubetech.com     | "Carpe Nocturn - I get more work done after
Andrew Loewenstern      |  2 a.m. than most people do all day."
Cube Technologies, Inc. |                          - Simson Garfinkel
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: albcraj@yalevm.ycc.yale.edu (Craig Albert)
Subject: How do I rekey an auto cylinder?
Followup-To: alt.locksmithing
Organization: Yale University
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 16:49:24 GMT

I'd like to rekey a car lock cylinder.  Thieves jimmied my old one, and I
got a new one at a junkyard.  I figure that I can use the old pins in the
new lock, but how do I remove the plug from the cylinder?  (I'm new at
this.)  The only opening on the lock is a small recatngular hole directly
behind the faceplate.  Any suggestions or helpful comments on doing this
job would be appreciated.  A response by email, as well as to the net,
would be helpful as well.

Craig Albert    albcraj@yalevm.ycc.yale.edu
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: cmwolf@mtu.edu (christopher m. wolf)
Subject: Re: Informatik-5 locksmithing file
Organization: Michigan Technological University
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 22:33:45 GMT

Where at FTP.EFF.ORG????

Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing,rec.audio.car
From: chenh@neptune.ecs.csus.edu (H. Philip Chen)
Subject: Re: interest in car alarm group?
Organization: California State University, Sacramento
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 08:54:02 GMT

p00140@psilink.com (Gary A. Woodward) writes:
>Any interest in a car alarm/security system discussion group.
>I have many years of experience in selling, designing, and training 
>people to install mobile security.  I also know some of the authoritys 
>on the manufacturing level.  I keep up with new developements in the 
>business.   I have no economic gains.  How about it? any interest?

I'm not interested.  There are more than enough newsgroups to 
handle the car alarm/security threads, eg. in rec.audio.car, 
rec.autos, rec.autos.tech, and even in sci.electronics.  

Having a rec.(car-alarm) will probably attract a whole bunch 
of flames from people who just hate those things.  


My 2 cents,

-phil

Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: aroll@gucis.cit.gu.edu.au (Ashley Roll)
Subject: Re: Identify this key....
Organization: Griffith University, Brisbane, Australia.
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 92 06:22:31 GMT

lairdb@crash.cts.com (Laird P. Broadfield) writes:

>   /---\_____________________
>  |.  %                      |
>  |   %                      |
>   \___/---------------------


Well we have these type of keys here at griffith Uni to get access to our 
computer labs. Ours are blue on side though. 

As Far as I know (from talking to a Tech who was fixing one of the readers one 
day, and from our local computer support people) They are magentic and there 
is a console that the readers communicate with, It looks like a complicated
house alarm panel but it contains a small programmable computer.

As Far as I know the individual keys may not be unique, but there are different
"combinations" for want of a better word, on the keys which the controler 
recognises and has a database which says when that key is allowed to open the
door(by releasing an electromagnetic door lock). (We has restricted times that
we can use the labs).

Our keys are made by a company called DKS (well that is what the logo says)
here (in Ausrtalia) but I don't know anything else about the company.

Hope that this helps..

Cheers,
Ash..


........../\/\/\................../\.....Reality is a user-defined function....
......../\...../\...../\/\/\/\.../\...........................................
....../\......../\../\........../\/\/\/\.....   Ashley Roll                ..
...../\/\/\/\/\/\.../\/\/\/\.../\....../\...   aroll@gucis.cit.gu.edu.au  ..
..../\......../\........../\../\......./\..................................
.../\......../\.../\/\/\/\.../\......./\..................................
       Unix filename length is infinite, Where infinity is set to 255.
                              - Unix manual.
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: wix@eskimo.celestial.com (Dennis Wicks)
Subject: Re: Combination Locks
Organization: >>> Eskimo North (206)-FOR-EVER <<<
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 18:43:10 GMT

In article <Bx9xup.MJ2@news.cso.uiuc.edu> cs101c96@eng-nxt04.cso.uiuc.edu (cs101 student) writes:
>Hello everyone. As a newcomer onto the scene, I have a couple of questions  
>that someone out there will be able to answer.
>
>2) What makes Best locks so damn hard to pick? I worked on the one on my  
>dorm closet for 45 minutes with no luck. I took the lock outta the door  
>for an examination, and couldn't really figure it out. Is there a certain  
>method to go about picking these?
>
I have never tried to pick a Best lock, but I have worked several
places that have used them.  What makes them hard to pick is that
they have much tighter tolerances, ie. less "slop," than most
other locks, and as mentioned other places they have two shear
lines.  So not only do you have to be more gentle and precise
lining up the shearlines, but there are two of them, one of which
is the wrong one!  Although, if you can pick the control shear,
then the whole core comes out and you can open the lock with a
large screwdriver.

Also, all the Best lock systems I was in contact with were
multiple-master systems.  For example, one master might open all
classrooms, another all offices, another all locks on a floor,
all locks in a building, and then a Grand Master that opens
_anything_ in the company.  I had all levels of masters in my
possession several times, and as far as I could tell there
weren't any common cuts among them.  This means that there would
also be more than two breaks in the pin stack at every position,
increasing the chances of getting the alignment at the wrong
shear line.
From: hes@unity.ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Picking Best locks (Was: Re: Combination Locks)
Date: 7 Nov 92 02:02:55 GMT
Organization: North Carolina State University

In article <1992Nov6.065754.21910@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes:
>cs101c96@eng-nxt04.cso.uiuc.edu (cs101 student) writes:
>:  ...
>: 2) What makes Best locks so damn hard to pick?  ...
>
>Probably mushroom or spool pins. Both make picking the locks much more
>difficult. However, it can be done - with a sensitive and soft touch -
>as well as lots of practice.
> ...

  Even without mushroom/spool pins they are harder than average
to pick.  IMHO this is because of more precise manufacture than
average.  The presence of the control cylinder may also somewhat 
hinder picking.

--henry schaffer  n c state univ
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: Picking Best locks (Was: Re: Combination Locks)
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 20:56:24 GMT

gwoho@ucrmath.ucr.edu (gwoho liu) writes:
: 
: a hacksaw blade to make a lockpick?  how can one consider such an awful
: chunk of metal?  i'm pretty clumsy with tools and have busted lots of
: hacksaw blades.  they break pretty easily especially if you bend them as i
: do (i'm really awful at using tools).  now a belt saw blade is somewhat
: different from a hacksaw blade.  i've bent those things like crasy (actually
: the saw did the bending as they tend to do during ordinary operation) and
: they didn't break.  a hacksaw blade is about as thick as any saw blade, except
: perhaps a chain saw's blade.

Lock picking requires a gentle touch. It does not matter if the picks are
a little brittle. Often, this hardness is necessary, or the pick will bend
when you attempt to use it.

Bill
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: bill@wabworld.atl.ga.us (Angus MacPeevy)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Re: Phrack newsletter
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 92 20:48:06 EST
Distribution: world
Organization: Shaque d'Amour

bpn@po.CWRU.Edu (Brian Nelson) writes:

> I've seen this mentioned several times.  Could anyone tell me where I can 
> get copies of either Phrack or 2600 magazine? Thanks.

Phrack you can get from a number of FTP sites, not the least of which 
(was, probably still IS) eff.org.  I don't know the name of the 
subdirectory, but have faith in the abilities of others to find it as I 
did in plain sight.

2600 is only in print form as far as I know.  You can e-mail to 
"2600@well.sf.ca.us" to ask any specific questions, but any large 
bookstore or large magazine store in your area should carry it.  I 
believe it costs about $4 in the store.  Snail-mailed subscriptions are 
available.

--
"I'm not only the Hair Club president, but I'm also a client."
  -Sy Sperling
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond)
Subject: Re: A strange hotel room key - do you know how it works?
Date: Sun, 08 Nov 92 20:43:47 GMT
Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access.  The Mouth of the South.

Pat_Barron@transarc.com writes:

>A friend of mine recently showed me an unusual hotel room key, and I'm
>rather bamboozled about how it might work.

>The key itself consists of a thin, rectangular strip of metal with
>some small rectangular holes in it.  My friend tells me that each key
>looks exactly the same, each with an identical number of holes in the
>same places.  When you check in, they take a key at random out of a
>box, run it through a reader, and that becomes the key to your room.

The little bars of metal that separate the holes are magnetized to the
code pattern by the "programmer".  The lock reads this magnetism.

These things are EXTREMELY unreliable.  I've stayed at two motels that
used them.  In each case, it became routine to stop by the desk in 
the morning to get the key reprogrammed.

John
-- 
John De Armond, WD4OQC               |Interested in high performance mobility?  
Performance Engineering Magazine (TM) |
Marietta, Ga                         |Interested in high tech and computers? 
jgd@dixie.com                        |Write me about PE Magazine
Need Usenet public Access in Atlanta?  Write Me for info on Dixie.com.