HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Nf-ID: #R:magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu:22507:nemesis:-17462460:000:2583
Nf-From: nemesis.UUCP!root    Sep 13 18:19:00 1992


[0]Does anyone know why the cost of Compact Discs are still so high?
[0]
[0]     Back in 1987 when I first bought my CD player, the cost of a CD was $15
[0]US.  I predicted then that as more people bought into the format and the
[0]cost of production decreased, that the price would dip below $10 in a few
[0]years.  It has been 5 years now and I'm still paying an average of $13.50
[0]per disc?
[0]What gives?  Who is cashing in--the recording industry?  The artists?  I
[0]read somewhere that a CD costs about a dollar to manufacture in large
[0]quatities.

Exactly!  You can get 500 discs pressed WITH Jewel cases, two-color disc label
art shrink-wrapped in three weeks for $1.15 US each, plus a one-time $500 US
mastering charge.  (Got this quote two weeks ago.)  For longer lead times and
larger quantities, disc + case can be had for $0.95!   This is from major
pressers, (3M, SONY) not ones you never heard of.  The mastering charge stays
the same no matter how many you press.

So on a pressing of fifty thousand, that adds $0.01 US per disc to the cost.

And locally, our Sound Warehouse chain recently changed their default
price on CDs from $14.99 to $15.99 US, even as it costs less to make the
discs.

The "long-box", and any printed-inserts can add (lets be generous)
$0.75, so that's $0.95 + $0.75  = $1.70 for the product.  Plus lets say there
is a $1.50 royalty per disc (on the high side), and you have $3.20.  A store
typically pays between $8.20 and $9.20 US per POPULAR, MAJOR LABEL disc
wholesale.  The rest of the markup is at the store.  Let's also assume
transportation and warehousing adds $0.50 per disc (incredibly high).

So that's a $12.29 US profit per $3.70 disc, if sold at $15.99.

If you don't think this is possible, look at a Laserlight disc in a store,
which typically cost $3.99-5.99 US.  It is possible to sell discs cheaply,
IF you don't go for 200% profit margins.

I think the big labels decided that we were willing to pay this price and are
simply holding street prices high as pressing prices fell to almost nothing.
Looks like price gouging to me.  Where's the FTC when you need them?


Also, the recording industry looks at these profit levels, and guess what
stupid conclusion they come up with?  WE NEED A TAPE TAX TOO!  :-(

Frank Durda IV <uhclem@nemesis.lonestar.org>|"Do you mean I have to pay Sony &
...utacfd!nemesis!uhclem (nearest internet) | Michael Jackson to record my
...letni!rwsys!nemesis!uhclem	            | kids choir?"  "Yep, pay here."
...decvax!microsoft!trsvax!nemesis!uhclem   |"God, this is a great country!"
From: scott@psy.uwa.oz.au (Scott Fisher)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: Very expensive cables
Date: 15 Sep 1992 01:33:11 GMT
Organization: The University of Westrn Australia
NNTP-Posting-Host: wapsy.psy.uwa.oz.au

palane@iastate.edu (Paul A. Lane) writes:

>In <19197kINNh6@uniwa.uwa.edu.au> scott@psy.uwa.oz.au (Scott Fisher) writes:

>>I have seen this mentioned before.  Just how can a well designed
>>double blind experiment using a two alternative forced choice
>>procedure "reduce" your sensitivity?  After all the data returned

>Perhaps you're not aware of the early trials made in the fifties when
>people had difficulty distinguishing a live performance with a repro-
>duction. Perhaps pressure on the listener to try to hear something
>different is at issue.

>My personal preference (which I think would satisfy both camps) would
>be extended black box listening. If long-time listening will bring out
>differences between (for example) different amplifiers, take a Pioneer
>amp and put it in a black box with a brick and a Mark Levinson (or your
>favorite ultra-expensive amp). The listener does not hook the amps up
>and level matching should be unnecessary (the listener still can adjust
>volume). Run a trial over several weeks with half the critics getting
>cheapos and half the critics getting ultras.

This would be known as a "between" subjects design and would probably
(in this case) be better to do a "within" subjects design (where each
reviewer listens to all the amps, cables, speakers etc, under review) just 
give the critic "2, 3 or 20" black boxes...then what you have is simply a 
"double blind experiment" where 1 trial takes about a month. 

To make things really interesting give them 6 black boxes for a month, have 
three amps (pairs of each) in there "somewhere" and get the reviewer to not 
only write a review for each box but also tell you which boxes contained the 
"same" amps....to make things "really" interesting, don't tell the reviewer 
that there are only 3 different amps in the 6 boxes :-)

Tasks for the subjects could be writing extended, subjective reviews, simply
saying "same, different", "better, worse", etc etc...

Regards Scott.
_______________________________________________________________________________
Scott Fisher [scott@psy.uwa.oz.au]  PH: Aus [61] Perth (09) Local (380 3272).                
                                                             _--_|\       N
Department of Psychology                                    /      \    W + E
University of Western Australia.                 Perth -->  *_.--._/      S
Nedlands, 6009.  PERTH, W.A.                                      v       

    *** ERROR 144 - REBOOT? is a registered trademark of ENSONIQ Corp ***
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: rsd@sei.cmu.edu (Richard S D'Ippolito)
Subject: Old HK & EV stuff worth anything?
Organization: The Software Engineering Institute
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 15:37:11 GMT


A friend is having a house sale for his mother and has a Harmon-Kardon Stereo
Festival AM/FM receiver and two ElectroVoice Aristocrat speaker systems.  Any
takers or any ideas on the value?  It all functions.  Thanks.


Rich


   "Please keep in mind that the ultimate goal [of hi-fi] is the
   reproduction of art, and that the invocation of science, while a neat
   parlour trick, is often unnecessary, flawed, and unreasonable."
   --  name mercifully withheld...                            rsd@sei.cmu.edu
From: bkush@us.oracle.com (Brian Kush)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Big CD changer
Date: 9 Sep 92 19:42:25 GMT
Organization: Oracle Corporation, USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

Anyboby with any info on a 100 or so disc changer??  Ideally I would 
like to get one like in a Jukebox and hook it up to a computer to control it.

I guess I am just lazy and don't want to get up to put in disc number 7.

Thanks

-- 
Brian Kush  --  Oracle Corporation  --  bkush@us.oracle.com
Newsgroups: rec.audio,rec.audio.pro
From: eacj@theory.TC.Cornell.EDU (Julian Vrieslander)
Subject: Cassette decks, Dolby, and waveform fidelity (scientific application)
Organization: Cornell Theory Center
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 06:13:43 GMT

My boss wants to buy a dual-drive cassette deck for editing recordings of
animal sounds.  I suspect that many or all of these recordings were made
without Dolby processing.  His research involves analysis of the temporal
structure of the animal sounds (modulation, syllable timing, phase
relationships, etc.), and waveform fidelity is more important than s/n ratio
in most situations.  We have noted that Dolby circuits adversely affected
waveform fidelity in machines tested years ago.  We are curious to know if
the current crop of Dolby processors have improved in this area.  We would
also appreciate recommendations for dual-drive cassette decks that would
be good choices for this application.

-- 
Julian Vrieslander 
Neurobiology & Behavior, Mudd Hall, Cornell University, Ithaca NY 14853    
INTERNET: eacj@theory.tc.cornell.edu     BITNET: eacj@crnlthry
UUCP: ..cornell!batcomputer!eacj
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: sirothe@srv.PacBell.COM (Sheldon Rothenberg)
Subject: Re: CAMBRIDGE SOUNDWORKS ENSEMBLE
Organization: Pacific * Bell
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 22:35:19 GMT

In article <51197@seismo.CSS.GOV> denio@seismo.CSS.GOV (Dennis O'Neill) writes:
>In article <laespnINNfgf@news.bbn.com> jdhill@BBN.COM (Jack D. Hill) writes:
>> I didn't like the Ensembles at all. They produce a nice sound stage but
>> they are very bright and thin sounding. The bass is also pretty slim
>> but this is to be expected with speaker
A
>
>My experience differs.  In my room with my electronics, the CSEs had
>too much bass when I had the bass module together or in corners.  One
>thing about the CSEs is that my perception of their output was very
>position-dependent.  I found I got best results with the high freq.
>modules on CS stands, about 5 feet out from the side walls and three
>feet out from the back wall, toed in toward my listening chair.  I did
>not like them so well with the HF modules on bookshelves.
>
>I particularly disagree about human voice. 

I agree. Experimentation with speaker position pays off. I listened to a 
variety of music before I settled where I wanted the bass units. The
small speakers definitely benefit from positioning which the tripods
they sell facilitate.

Shelley
From: rghoff@bb1t.monsanto.com
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: Design Acoustics PS-9
Date: 11 Sep 92 17:28:56 GMT
Organization: Monsanto Company, St. Louis, MO

In article <0eg2drq00iUxM9t6Vs@andrew.cmu.edu>, Kent Andrew Edmonds <ke0u+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
> Anyone have experience with Design Acoustics PS-9's?
> 

Is that the one with the down-fireing sub? I heard it at a store, it was
ok, but didn't seem to have as flat a response that the $550 would indicate.
If those were the one's your talking about.

I just bought the PS-?6 for a center channel. Very nice for the money. In
fact the one's the next level up were really nice for the money too. That's
why I was suprized at the PS-9 seeming to drop out of the running.

Rick Hoffman.



> 
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: gfs5729@tamuts.tamu.edu (George Frederick Iv Simler)
Subject: Bose 901's
Summary: What is wrong with them?
Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 03:51:14 GMT

	I have been reading all of the bose-bashing going on around here for
some time and would like to add my little comment to the brawl.

	For graduation from college by parents bought me a set of Bose 901's
and to say that I have been mightily impressed by them would be an
understatement.  They were mounted as close to Bose's recommendations as my
room would allow and they simply blew me away.  I have always considered
myself somewhat of an audiophile though my current occupation as a grad
student basically eliminates the necessary income (my tastes run high) and I
have found nothing I repeat NOTHING wrong with my 901's.  I got the 901's
very shortly after going to the CES in Chicago (capitalist mecca) along with
the required pilgrimmage to the Conrad Hilton to enjoy the many floors of
audiophile holy relics.  

I would say that after spending hours listening to Martin Logans, Ohm 
Acoustics, Fried (Bud Fried was simply the coolest guy there), dyamo (sp?)
and other god-like speaker's driven by the likes of Threshold and Mark 
Levinson that I would be let down by my lowly old 901's, but that was 
definitely not the case.  Their soundstage and articulation astounded me.

	Just wanted to add my two cents worth.

					George Simler
					gfs5729@tamuts.tamu.edu

P.S.  The best music I heard by far was from lp's and that includes 
      hearing cd's going through the new ~$14K mark levinson da converter.
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Date: Sun,  6 Sep 1992 17:05:27 -0400 
From: Chinarut Ruangchotvit <chinman+@CMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Sony's CD advertising

>Why is Sony advertising CD's as the greatest thing since sliced bread
>(I've seen at least 5 ads in on hour on MTV) when they're just going
>to introduce the MD and have to sell THAT as the latest and greatest.
>Wouldn't it make more sense to not advertise the CD, but say something
>like "coming soon, .... I suck at writing these things..." but
>basically piquing public interest in the MD?

Interestingly enough...I saw a MD advertisement in the Summer catalog of
Noteworthy CDs.  I boasts the advantages of the MD and is a full page ad
right in the beginning.


--
Chinarut Ruangchotvit
<cr2p+@andrew.cmu.edu>
<chinman+@cmu.edu>

	"Learning that we're only immortal - for a limited time"
							-Rush, Dreamline
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: shiv@bnr.ca (Shiv Naimpally)
Subject: Re: Dolby Pro Logic in Music and Vidio Tapes anyone ?????
Reply-To: shiv@bnr.ca (Shiv Naimpally)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 18:00:29 GMT

In article <1992Sep8.164350.19617@ultb.isc.rit.edu>, deb5584@ultb.isc.rit.edu (D.E. Baker ) writes:
|> I just purchased a Yamaha Rcvr. with Dolby pro logic and was wondering
|> how much of today's music is encoded Dolby pro.  I got it mostly
|> for a Hi Fi VCR to use for special effects in movies but I don't know
|> what is happening when I use music.  With music it sounds choppy and a bit 
|> unnatural so I am assuming that the music I have used wasn't encoded
|> with Dolby pro.  I know my unit doesn't have a indicator light to tell
|> weather or not the source is encoded Dolby pro but do any other units 
|> have any indication ?  Does anyone know of any music which is encoded 
|> with Dolby Pro ?  Any reply would be appreciated.
|> 
|>                                                 Thanks,
|>                                                 Doug

Any Dolby Pro Logic encoded material will be marked as such. Stereo Review
recently looked at this relatively new phenomenon of encoding music CDs
using Pro Logic and they listed 30-40 cds. I do know of 2 off the top of my
head: Isao Tomita's "Holst's The Planets" and Wendy Carlos's new "Switched
on Bach" release. Both are electronic realizations of Classical pieces.
I think some of Tomita's other CDs have also been released with Pro Logic
encoding.

Unless you are playing Pro Logic encoded source, don't use the Pro Logic
decoder. 
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: yoda@deathstar.Stanford.EDU (Terry Lee)
Subject: Re: Best type of CD changer?
Organization: Residential Computing, Stanford University
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 16:27:54 GMT

In article <92251.192056LLH111@psuvm.psu.edu> <LLH111@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>  Hi all.  I'm thinking of getting a new cd player in the $600 area, and
>I'm also considering getting a changer rather than a single.
>First of all, which type of changer is better(carousel vs. cartridge), and
>why?
>Second, what is a good brand to get?
>Any speculation and facts would be greatly appreciated.

Nakamichi has reduced prices on their entire line.  At House of Music
in San Francisco, CD Player 3 is $499 down from $599 and CD Player 2
is $650 down from $800.

They are both 6 CD changers, but they are neither carousel nor cartridge.
It uses a patented system called MusicBank which in my opinion is superior
to all other types.  It operates just like a single disk player.  In fact
the only things revealing that its a changer is the 1 - 6 lights on the front
panel, a change disc button, and the words MusicBank on the front.
The tray looks like any ordinary single CD player tray.  The CD are stored
internally so you never have to fumble with multiple CDs.  Just put a CD in the
tray and go.  It doesn't have any of the problems associated with the other
types of changers.

CD Player 3 sounds very good, and I would consider CD Player 2 audiophile
quality.  CD player 2 has better DA converters.

Also, McIntosh has licensed MusicBank from Nakamichi, so if McIntosh uses it,
it's got to be the best.  (Of course the McIntosh changer will run you over
$2000).




Newsgroups: rec.audio,rec.video
From: case@infonode.ingr.com (Bill Case)
Subject: Re: Requesting info on Sony MDP333 Multi Format Laser player.
Keywords: toslink
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 14:42:03 GMT

I have this player,  and my longterm plans were to use it occasionally  
as an LD player,  and often as a CD frontend to an external DAC.  
The MDP-333 only has the Toslink connector,  and I see comments that
Toslink is really a mid-fi connector - outdistanced by good coax or
AT&T optical.  I even hear that Theta will csoon ome out with something 
much better than AT&T optical.  Is there any technical merit to the
damning of Toslink?  Has anyone truly heard and/or measured differences
between it and the alternative?

Bill Case
...uunet!ingr!b11!casey!case    (UUCP)
ingr!b11!casey!case@uunet.uu.net (ARPANET)
case@ingr.com		        (Internet)
From: mbk@lyapunov.ucsd.edu (Matt Kennel)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: Sony's CD advertising
Date: 12 Sep 92 00:06:21 GMT
Organization: Institute For Nonlinear Science, UCSD
NNTP-Posting-Host: lyapunov.ucsd.edu
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

goyal@utdallas.edu (Mohit K. Goyal) writes:
: While everyone continues to debate whether MD will survive or not, I will
: offer my opinion.
: 
: I will buy a MD player as soon as I feel they are at a decent price, which
: hopefully won't take to long.
: 
: I own a CD player in my house and have invested my money in about 200 CD's.
: 
: Why do I want a MD player?
: 
: Because I love the convience of CD's.  They are quiet, the sound quality
: is good enough that I don't hear any "hiss" in the background, you can
: have instant access, you can program, repeat, delete, etc...
: 
: To me that is very convienent.

: I desperately want to be able to record songs from various CD's, from
: the radio(along with talk shows and other radio offerings).

And also, the tracks on MD's are allocated in a "filesystem", so that
you can rerecord over a previous track which had a different length
and not lose any music, or create any gaps.  No other consumer medium
has ever done this. 

This, and the shock-proof buffer, are two concrete reasons why MD is
better than DCC and CD.



Personally, I want MD's to "win" because they should make great
floppy drive replacements for a computer.  I will not buy one
for audio purposes, most likely.

--
-Matt Kennel  		mbk@inls1.ucsd.edu
-Institute for Nonlinear Science, University of California, San Diego
-*** AD: Archive for nonlinear dynamics papers & programs: FTP to
-***     lyapunov.ucsd.edu, username "anonymous".
From: exulme@exu.ericsson.se (Michael Englund, T-TDT, x0996)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Amp. mod. Sansui AU-X700
Date: 11 Sep 92 02:23:35 GMT
Reply-To: exulme@exu.ericsson.se
Organization: Ericsson Network Systems, Inc.


Hi,
I'm about to buy a speaker system with a subwoofer that only
has a low level input, and my integrated amp does not have a
"pre out". I's a funny amp. since it's got a "main in" and the 
volume control is placed after the main in. There's a switch
on the front with which I can select either the "main in" or
the units connected to the integrated preamp. The preamp
part has all the tone controls and filters and stuff, but the
volume control is in the power amp. part. 

Does any body know if it's even remotely possible to cut into
the amp just after the volume control to create a "pre out" and
a "main in" without totally destroying the quality of the sound.

If nobody can help me a little I'll just by a separate preamp.
The amplifier is a Sansui AU-X700, which seems to be a decent amp
for it's price, I think it's got problems with low inpedance
loads though, but I haven't verified this.

Appreciate any kind of help or comments.

---
Michael L. Englund
Ericson Network Systems, Software Verification Techniques
Richardson, TX  75081, USA
Internet:  exulme@exu.ericsson.se   phone:  +1-214-997-0996
Newsgroups: rec.audio,rec.video
From: wjin@cs.uh.edu (W. Woody Jin)
Subject: Re: Requesting info on Sony MDP333 Multi Format Laser player.
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 23:09:37 GMT

In article <1992Sep4.175954.4996@bnr.ca> Jonathan P. Crone <cronejp@bnr.ca> writes:
>A local dealer has what seems to be a fairly decent price for a 
>multi-format laser disk player.... a Sony MDP333.
>
>It comes with S-Video out, Optical Digital out, and plays
>anything from the LaserDisks down to the CD-3's.

I think that Sony MDP333 is the cheapest one that has S-Video and 
Optical output (and 20bit 8 x oversampling).
I had owned it for several months and have been (sort of) happy with it.

There are some minor minusses (this is because I paid less for what I wanted).
1) ON/OFF control cannot be done using remote controller.
2) No special effects
3) One side play.

If you think you don't need the above three, then 333 is an excellent one.
Especially for audio part, I could hear a big difference between the
CD play that I used (Japanese made no brand name) and 333.
333 provides louder and more crystal sound.
I don't know about the optical output since I don't have a digital processor
yet (some day ...).

-- 
____   ____  ____ ____________________________________________________________
|  |   |  |  |  |  W. Woody  Jin (wjin@cs.uh.edu)     
|  |   |  |__|  |  Grad Student, Research Assistant. 
|  |   |        |  Department of Computer Science    Office - PGH572
\  |---|  |--|  |  University of Houston             713-747-2130 (home)
 \____/|__|  |__| ____________________________________________________________
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: rolfe@fraser.sfu.ca (Christopher John Rolfe)
Subject: Mail-Order Out of Country
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 03:56:25 GMT


	Can anyone recommend a reputable mail-order firm selling audio
equipment, FAX machines, and other electronic gear, which might have
experience shipping to Mexico?  Presumably some of the places in LA,
or Texas ship south regularly.  Or is it ultimately better to find a
dealer in Mexico?

	E-mail preferred.

-- 
Chris                   | 2617 East 4th,| The only space left in the Western
rolfe@sfu.ca            | Van., B.C.    | World that doesn't say 'McPizza'.
Simon Fraser University | V5M 1K5       | (reg.trdmk). 
Burnaby,  Canada        | Canada        |
From: eric@prodigal.psych.rochester.edu (Eric Hansen)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Need info on damping material to quiet my apt!
Summary: My apartment is noisy, and I want to quiet it down & improve my sound.
Keywords: DAMPING
Date: 14 Sep 92 16:34:33 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester - Rochester, New York

I recently moved into an apartment which is off of a main street in Boston.
It is not very well sonically isolated from the outside environment, and I
can't listen to my stereo without hearing traffic and "city" noises from
the outside.  Also, the apt. has wood floors and high ceilings.  The
walls are plaster, and everything is very springy.  As a result, the bass is
really lousy, and I have lots of midrange reflections everwhere making for
a pretty inadequate listening environment for my nice Apogee dipoles speakers!
Here are some specific questions:

- Can I do something to the windows (covering, insulation) to cut some of
the noise from the roads?  I know you can get stuff for your car (from
Crutchfield) that you put in the doors and under carpet and it quiets the
interior by several dbs... would this work in an apartment?!

- How about the floors - I already have sand-filled speaker stands, but the
floor is still springy hardwood, and I think it absorbs much of the bass
energy.  What to do?

- High plaster walls and ceilings... do I need damping material like 
Michael Green's RoomTune stuff?  The midrange bounces all over - I get this
"aura" of midrange reflections... it's a weird sound, and hard to describe,
but definitely deteriorates the sound quality.


Thanks in advance!!  Really!

- Eric Hansen

eric@binoc.bih.harvard.edu
Newsgroups: rec.audio