HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: evan@telly.on.ca (Evan Leibovitch)
Subject: Re: Canadian politician discovers "junk faxes"
Organization: Somewhere just far enough out of Toronto
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 04:16:43 GMT

In article <1992Sep28.034002.10074@samba.oit.unc.edu>
	Nigel.Allen@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Nigel Allen) writes:

>Anyone who has a fax machine in Toronto (at least one that's listed in the
>Business Connexions directory of fax numbers published by Telinfomatic Inc.)
>has gotten used to receiving "junk faxes" promoting 976 numbers and
>fax supplies.

Outside of mass-market mail-order firms, I can't think of a reason why
anyone would want/need to be in such a directory, which apparently is just
one big sucker list. Fax software these days can be programmed to
demon-dial thousands of fax machines with simple commands.

I saw the booth for this directory at a trade show, they were both
advertising for people to buy the directory, and volunteer for a free
listing. It looked just like lining up people to get on a sucker list.

This is an honest question. Can anyone suggest a valid reason why
anyone would voluntarily list in this thing? Without a valid reason,
it's my personal opinion that anyone who voluntarily lists their fax
number in this directory deserves what they get. Call the company and
demand your listing be removed. Then, if you're in the computerized
sucker lists, it may be too late...

>I have in front of me a fax from him dealing with the Canadian
>constitutional referendum scheduled for October 26th. I suspect
>that every Toronto-area fax machine listed in Business Connexions
>will receive the same message from Mr. Mills.

We all already get put on enough junk-mail lists. Why volunteer to
go on even more lists?

Making the matters worse is that, unlike junk mail, junk faxes incur
an out-of-pocket expense on the part of the receiver (the paper). Also,
there is a potential opportunity cost because there is a finite limit to
the number of faxes one can receive in an hour.

-- 
 Evan Leibovitch, Sound Software Ltd., located in beautiful Brampton, Ontario
         evan@telly.on.ca / uunet!utzoo!telly!evan / (416) 452-0504
         "IBM's three letters are probably EBCDIC for CYA" - Nik H.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.canada:6888 can.politics:7345 can.general:4610
From: yadallee@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Dave Shariff Yadallee)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,can.politics,can.general
Subject: I was going to vote yes, BUT NOW ....
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 92 06:14:30 MDT
Organization: Edmonton Remote Systems #3, Edmonton, AB, Canada


Let really protest this FARCE of a referendum.  Just simply abstain.

This campaign has become dishonourable and dispicable (sp?)

Table:   POsitive                          Negative

 Yes:  - the economy                      - mass negatived campaign
 Side  - collective rights                - abandonment of minority rights
       - native recognisition             - investment blackmail
       - economic union                   - Vote NO = ANTI-Patrioit
       - politicians, business and        - a good comromise
         unions are on side               - The Big Chin Lying Brian Mulroney
       - QC naties did not get              Blue macine
         what they wanted

 NO  :  - NO EEE Senate                    - Economic disaster
 Side   - imbalanced HoC                   - labelled as caving under pressure
        - minority rigths unprotected      - Pre- Stone Age "Preston" Manning
        - Charter of Rights overridden       and the meglomaniac retreat
        - Pierre Trudeau (obligatory Grit    "Reformers", Reformers, what
                          comment)           Reformers? 5 year moratorium on
                                             constitutional talks? That's
                                             Reform???!!
        - Gordon Wilson                    - "Lucien" Coco Boucher "Bouchard"
                                              and the chip of the old Bloq
                                              Quebecois with "Jacques"
                                              Paribonzac "Parizeau" and the
                                              Ultra Right-Wing Legalize
                                              Discrimination Parti Quebecois,
                                              out of touch with the ordinary
                                              Quebecois
                                           - Richard Holden who's thinking is
                                             defective

Both sides should get a message from Canadians, we are saying Yes and No to
your attendat, YES because we need our economy and some sort of recognisition
of Canada's ethnic make-up, AND NO to the legalize discrimantion that would
weaken the Charter of Rights and Freedom and the non-withdrawal of the
Notwithstanding Clause.  So on October 26, ABSTAIN from voting.

These views do not reflect the views of Edmonton Remote Systems, Any political
Party or any group.



Dave Shariff Yadallee (yadallee@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca,
userLIBE@mts.ucs.ualberta.ca)
God Save the Queen, God Bless us All! Remember! Jesus Saves!!
Canadians: send a clear message to the government!  ON Oct. 26, Abstain
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,can.politics
From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
Subject: Re: Ontario "socialism"
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 16:34:07 GMT

In article <BvAH2z.LM6@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca> dbowman@shade (Don A. Bowman) writes:
>Gerald Olchowy (golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca) wrote:
>: 
>: Quebec is a have not province, of whom around 10% of their provincial
>: budget is equalization payments, (half of that 10% comes from
>: taxpayers in BC, Alberta, and Ontario).  Luckily, Quebec has someone
>: to receive equalization payments from...will Ontario be so lucky
>: when it becomes a have not province under the NDP.
>: 
>
>Where did you get these figures?
>

General knowledge mostly...check you average good newspaper around
budget time...the numbers are basically correct to within a couple
hundred million dollars or plus or minus 1% or so.  I'd be amazed
if you could prove that my numbers were significantly off or untruthful
or misleading...the orders of magnitude and the proportions are
basically correct.

Quebec's provincial budget is somewhere between 35 and 40 billion
dollars.  Federal equalization payments are just under or around
8 billion dollars.  Quebec receives about half of the equalization
payments of the federal government...i.e. about 4 billion dollars.
(Alberta, BC, and Ontario don't receive equalization payments and
represent 58 or 59% of the population...so the share of equalization
payments to Quebec is not unreasonable or unjustified)

However, Quebec does pay taxes, and around 25% of the 8 billion is
their own tax dollars or 2 billion.  So they net out (4 billion -
2 billion =) 2 billion dollars from the taxpayers of BC, Alberta,
and Ontario.

4 billion out of 35 to 40 billion is 10%, 2 billion is transfers
from BC, Alberta, and Ontario which is about 5%.

Gerald
Xref: sparky soc.culture.canada:7020 can.politics:7548
From: steven@spxtech.qc.ca (Steve Potter)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,can.politics
Subject: Re: Polling results : Canada
Date: 30 Sep 92 02:40:46 GMT
Organization: Securiplex Technologies Inc., Montreal, Canada
X-Bytes: 697

From article <BvD15o.HJG@ireq.hydro.qc.ca>, by beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca (Denis Beauregard):
> 
> Last polling in Quebec : something like 39% YES 47% NO.
> 

Lest anyone should be unaware:-

Some of the "NO!" votes in Quebec will be from federalists, non-separatists,
and other groups. (including members of Alliance Quebec and the Equality
Party - "party" lines are irrelevant in this one).

-- 
  ///==================================================================\\\
  ||| Steve Potter:         steven%spxtech@CAM.ORG                     |||
  ||| Expertise/Experience: Computer Systems Engineering / Real Ale /  |||
  |||                       Politics in Education in Quebec            |||
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,can.politics
From: jamie@cs.sfu.ca (Jamie Andrews)
Subject: Re: Polling results : Canada
Organization: CSS, Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 01:14:30 GMT

In article <Bv9M75.K4v@news.cso.uiuc.edu> epritcha@s.psych.uiuc.edu (EVAN pritchard) writes:
>From the looks of this, BC people are really against this the
>referendum.  Moreover, more of them have made up their minds about it.
>Why is this?  

     Because the electorate in BC is BRAINLESS.

     Remember that these are the same people that elected the
Social Credit party time and time again when they knew perfectly
well they were a bunch of crooks.

     It took the Socred Premier being brought to COURT and the
whole party tearing itself apart with internecine disputes
before the Brainless BC Electorate finally decided to get rid of
them.

     It was the smartest thing they ever did.  And ever will do,
by the looks of it.

     Now, because Harcourt deferred BC's rep-by-pop gains in the
Commons by a few years in order to effect a compromise, and
because the Harcourt government (like the Ontario gov't) has
stated its interest in passing legislation to have gender
balance in the Senate (legislation that could perfectly well be
overturned by subsequent provincial governments!), the BC
electorate has re-asserted its archetypal BRAINLESSNESS and
decided that it would be a good idea to reject the constitution.
"I want Everything, Now!!"

     I bet these are the same people who are going to call
Presto Manning's 1-800 number to say "I voted No in the
Referendum but I still want to vote Yes to Quebec."

     Feh.

--Jamie.
  jamie@cs.sfu.ca
"Every \item command in item_list must have an optional argument." LaTeX pg.168
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,can.politics
From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
Subject: Re: Ontario "socialism"
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 05:07:24 GMT

In article <BvH5qv.5Au@watdragon.uwaterloo.ca> jdnicoll@watyew.uwaterloo.ca (James Davis Nicoll) writes:
>>Seems like an good business opportunity for our oversupply of
>>Ph.D's, and expatriate Ph.D's, who might take the entrepreneurial
>>jump and create new universities dedicated to quality teaching.
>
>	Where does the money represented by  the vouchers  come from?
>Does everyone  who wants a voucher get one, and if not, who decides
>who does get one?
>

I admit I haven't fully worked out in my own mind the complete picture
of how a voucher system would work, but I'm convinced that human capital
and individual empowerment are the keys to our economic prosperity in
the future, and thus we have to develop an education and training ethic
throughout our society, that is flexible and responsive to the
individual, to business, and to government...and that a voucher system
is the way to go.

I envision it being self-financing...i.e. there is universal eligibility
and the voucher is viewed as a loan that is paid back directly, via
service, or through a higher income tax rate on individuals who use
the vouchers.  I assume there will be need of for accreditation of
eligible programs to set minimum standards.  The programs and
institutions could be public (mainly provincially or municipally run)
or private, or be run by business or unions...and span the full range
from university education to trade apprenticeship.  

>	Does  universities still get veto power over accepting a given
>student?
>

I don't see why not...and would assume so.

>>These small private universities would take the enrollment burden
>>of the "big" schools and allow them to pursue their main interest
>>which is research anyway.
>
>	Where  does the money  for  this come  from, and  why will these
>new universities  not go for  the more lucratic  research contracts?
>

There would be nothing to stop them...but I think there is a need
and a niche for colleges whose main focus would be teaching, and
which would relieve the burden from universities that really want
to be research institutions.  I assume businesses and governments
are still going to fund R&D with other funds.

A voucher system would be a good mechanism for business and unions
to upgrade the skills of their workforces and their members.

>	Under  the voucher scheme, is supply  of post-secondary education 
>envisioned  to increase to  the point everyone who wants  to will  get  into
>some  university?
>

I assume it would be supply and demand...the purpose of the voucher
system is to create opportunity, and then let the "educuation" market
essentially be free (subject to some accreditation process). 

Gerald
From: alan@lancaster.nsc.com (The Hepburn)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
Subject: The Upcoming Election
Date: 29 Sep 92 23:29:01 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: National Semiconductor Corporation

I've been gone for a while and I've noticed a lot of discussion concerning
the upcoming election.  Searching back through the old articles in the group
has failed to reveal some things.  So could somebody with a lot of time on
their hands post either the full text of what you are voting on, or at least
an unbiased (is that possible?) summary of the issues?  Apparently there
is a referendum, I've read something about a Canada Clause, a Charlottetown
Accord, Meech, etc.  I need a good summary, or the full text, of what exactly
is on the ballot up there!

If this is common knowledge, then maybe a reply by email would be appropriate.
Thanks in advance!!!

-- 
Alan Hepburn           "An ignorant person is one who doesn't know
National Semiconductor       what you have just found out."
Santa Clara, Ca              
alan@berlioz.nsc.com                              Will Rogers
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
Subject: Re: Charlottetown accord (was "What happens on October 26?")
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 06:04:29 GMT

In article <baljeual.717739028@uther> baljeual@uther.calvin.edu (Alan Baljeu) writes:
>golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy) writes:
>>The referendum question is something awfully close to:
>>"Do you agree that the constitution of Canada should be renewed on
>>the basis of the accord reached in Charlottetown on August 28?"
>Still unclear. What was the accord?  Who drew it?
>

Round up the usual suspects...Mulroney, Clark, Bourassa, the rest of
the premiers and a few aboriginal leaders...                   

In Canada, (the US ?) you can ask for a copy of the Charlottetown
Accord by calling 1-800-561-1188...it is also pretty much all
in the Globe and Mail on Sept 1 (your university library might
carry it) and the Toronto Star around Sept 20 or so.

>So what happens if NO occurs? Any guesses?
>

Well, I personally think nothing much will happen for a few years
just like after Meech, mainly because elections have to be held
in 1993 in Alberta, Quebec, and federally...and there is nothing
more important to a politician than getting re-elected...so
the constitutional issue will go to the backburner for at
least two years...and I would wager that if close the Pandora's
box opened by Mulroney in the mid-eighties with a NO vote in
this referendum, the realities of economic globalism will
fade to the backburner indefinitely.

But between now and then we will have to endure the chorus of
Chicken Little's.  Canada will slowly disintegrate with a Yes
vote...because Charlottetown will begin unravelling the
federation...because it is both flawed and incomplete.

Voting Yes is akin to jumping off a cliff into a bottomless abyss.

Gerald




Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,can.politics,can.general
From: evan@telly.on.ca (Evan Leibovitch)
Subject: Re: Charlottetown accord (was "What happens on October 26?")
Organization: Somewhere just far enough out of Toronto
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 19:34:30 GMT

In article <BvE6E4.E3B@math.uwaterloo.ca>
	mskucher@math.uwaterloo.ca (Murray S. Kucherawy [MFCF]) writes:

>>>In Canada, (the US ?) you can ask for a copy of the Charlottetown
>>>Accord by calling 1-800-561-1188

>A friend of mine has been calling that number intermittently for a few days
>now and always gets a busy signal or a recording saying "our offices are
>closed now".

The first time I read this number on the net, it was about 1:00am Eastern
time. On a lark, I figured I'd phone it while the idea was fresh in my
mind.

Got through the first try. Five days later the thing was in my hands.

-- 
 Evan Leibovitch, Sound Software Ltd., located in beautiful Brampton, Ontario
         evan@telly.on.ca / uunet!utzoo!telly!evan / (416) 452-0504
         "IBM's three letters are probably EBCDIC for CYA" - Nik H.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
Subject: Re: Are foreignborn kids of UK citizens british?
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 13:49:06 GMT

In article <1992Sep28.013411.29860@news.columbia.edu> gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare) writes:
>
>You can be a U.S. citizen and acquire other citizenships by ancestral
>heritage (e.g., Ireland) or for local residency purposes (e.g., Canada
>by marriage, etc.) without jeopardizing U.S. citizenship as long as NO
>renunciation oath is required during the naturalization process.  The
>Irish took out renunciation for those claiming citizenships by ancestry
>so that Americans descended from Irish can take advantage of it.
>
>U.S. naturalization has a renunciation oath so you can't go back to
>whatever you had afterward; if you do and the Americans catch you,

I thought (am I mistaken?) that the Canadian Citizenship Act does not
recognize the renunciation of Canadian citizenship unless it is
a renunciation made to a Canadian official...and that one can
say anything to a foreign or US official, and that it will not
affect how Canada views your citizenship.

Gerald
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,can.politics
From: viking@bnr.ca (Harold Henriksen)
Subject: Re: Ontario "socialism"
Reply-To: viking@bmerh66.bnr.ca
Organization: BNR Ottawa, Fibre Systems Development
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 12:59:08 GMT

In article <BvC7pw.Gn9@watdragon.uwaterloo.ca>, pasward@maytag.uwaterloo.ca (Paul A.S. Ward) writes:
|> In article <1992Sep29.002207.12803@bmerh85.bnr.ca> myhui@bnr.ca (Michael Hui) writes:
|> >In article <1992Sep28.211112.16306@ee.ubc.ca> jmorriso@ee.ubc.ca (John Paul Morrison) writes:
|> >>We are long past the old union war-stories of children exploited in coal
|> >>mines for 18 hours a day, and the goons beating anyone who spoke for worker's
|> >>rights.
|> >
|> >Didn't you watch/listen to Jesse Jackson's speech a few months back
|> >during the Democratic National Convention in New York City?
|> >
|> >It's still happening. Not to children, but to old, desperate women.
|> 
|> Well now isn't that interesting.  And I always thought Jesse Jackson
|> lived in the US, not Canada, and that in Canada we had a welfare
|> society.  Have we suddenly become the 51st state without knowing it,
|> and lost all our medicare, welfare, UI, etc.?

No, but the tories are working on it.  Child allowance is gone, old age pensions are
being clawed back (except MP's), UI and worker training are being foisted on to the
provinces (who can't afford it either) and medicare is headed for user-pay.  Hell, 
who needs to be the 51st state - the only aspect of the welfare state the tories want
to leave is the dole for their rich buddies and supporters.  

Harold Henriksen                    Bell-Northern Research
email: viking@bmerh694.bnr.ca       Ottawa,Ontario,Canada 

Pillaging and plundering were more fun than programming!
(Opinions are not my employer's and sometimes not mine)
Xref: sparky soc.culture.canada:7119 can.general:4720
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,can.general
Subject: Re: Cross-Posting
From: Steve.Withers@bbs.actrix.gen.nz
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 01:48:58 GMT
Organization: Actrix Information Exchange

In article <1992Sep30.115239.15803@infodev.cam.ac.uk> iaf@cl.cam.ac.uk (Innes Ferguson) writes:
> dbowman@shade (Don A. Bowman) writes:
> 
> >Could I make a small request of some people:
> >
> >Please stop cross-posting your articles to: Can.Politics, soc.culture.canada,
> >can.general.
> >
> >The people who read all three groups don't need this. People who don't read
> >one or the other do so for a reason.
> 
> Fine, but don't forget us ex-pats who don't have access to can.*
> 
> Cheers... Innes

Me too! If you don't cross post to soc.culture.canada....then I can't see it.
S.C.C is the only Canadian newsgroup carried in New Zealand!

Steve
-- 
Steve Withers - Wellington, New Zealand | On Sept. 19th, 88% of NZ voters opted
Steve.Withers@bbs.actrix.gen.nz         | for proportional representation. It
withers_s@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz            | looks like we may get a more  
**** Happy user of OS/2 v2!! ****       | democratic system "real soon now".
Xref: sparky soc.culture.canada:6918 can.politics:7372
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,can.politics
Subject: Re: Ontario "socialism"
From: Steve.Withers@bbs.actrix.gen.nz
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 10:06:13 GMT
Organization: Actrix Information Exchange

In article <1992Sep26.230010.27177@csi.uottawa.ca> cbbrowne@csi.uottawa.ca (Christopher Browne) writes:
> 
> The pro-union legislation is, of course, something that they would
> HAVE to support, on principle.  Whether it is good for the economy, or
> bad for the economy.  (And if the economy is prosperous, then both the
> "evil wealthy people" and the working people benefit.  If it's NOT
> doing well, there ain't nobody gonna benefit, except by thievery...)
> 
> The recent legislation is not as pro-union as the NDP principles would
> demand; it's certainly more anti-business than the business-people can
> handle.

You're green, Christopher........
 
I've been listening to business people for 20 years. Guess what? If it is
something they want, "It's good for the economy." If it's something they don't
want, "It's bad for the economy."
 
Basically, they sing the bad song when they don't get what they
want....and talk of recovery being just around the corner when they are handed
their wish-list on a silver platter.

Like anyone else, they exert what pressure they can bring to bear on
politicians in order to get their way. Usually - like for 50 years on the trot
- the DO get their way. But every once in a while, people elect a government
that redresses this imbalance. Then the buso's - who own all the newspapers
and magazines - manage to convince people that this is bad. They then spend
the the next 50 years undoing all the sacred cows that the so-called
socialists put into place......at which point, the people elect another
"reforming" government......
 
Let a few more summers pass and you'll begin to see that the captains of
industry are largely ruthless people with nice smiles. The smiles don't give
it away......your own experience at their hands does.
 
Steve


-- 
Steve Withers - Wellington, New Zealand | On Sept. 19th, 88% of NZ voters opted
Steve.Withers@bbs.actrix.gen.nz         | for proportional representation. It
withers_s@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz            | looks like we may get a more  
**** Happy user of OS/2 v2!! ****       | democratic system "real soon now".
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,can.politics