HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kozowski@ohsu.edu (Eric Kozowski)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Seeking advice on Eagle Court of Honor
Date: 2 Oct 92 01:12:29 GMT
Article-I.D.: ohsu.1992Oct2.011229.5126
Distribution: usa
Organization: Oregon Health Sciences University

In article <1992Oct01.223720.19526@news.mentorg.com> peteg@std.mentorg.com  
(Peter Galambos SST-C2139) writes:
> (Sorry if this is a repeat.  It didn't seem to go out the first time.)
> 
> My son has passed his Eagle Board and we're starting to think about
> the Court of Honor and have a lot of questions.  I'm hoping some
> of you who have been through this can offer some advice:
> 
> 7) Any other interesting experiences/comments/ideas?

Pete,

I'm with the Portland Sea Explorers/Scouts.  In February we have a  
"Quartermaster's Ball" (Quartermaster being the equivalant of Eagle).  In the  
past we have had Eagle Scouts use this as their Court of Honor.  If you are  
interested or want more details, let me know.

Eric Kozowski
First Mate
Sea Scout Ship City of Roses (601)
Portland, Or.
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: edelheit@smiley.mitre.org (Jeff Edelheit)
Subject: Re: Jesus vs. Cub Scouts?
Keywords: Cub usa policy faith religion bsa
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 19:04:22 GMT

In article <1992Oct5.155208.15611@news.nd.edu> ckennedy@sleepy.helios.nd.edu (chris kennedy) writes:
>This of course begs the question, how much influence should the chartering 
>organizatoin or the scoutmaster have in influencing the "character" of the 
>troop or pack.  In other words is it more acceptable for a scout troop that
>is chartered by a church to encourage their kids to attend services at
>campouts, or start a court of honor with a benediction than it is for a troop
>that is chartered by a school.  
>
>My personal opinion, to spur debate, is that if there is more than one troop
>in the area it is alright for troops to take on a more specific character.
>That way if a particular boy is not comfortable with the Christian, or Jewish,
>or whatever character of the troop they can go to one that they are more 
>comfortable with.  If, however, the troop is in a small town so that there
>is no choice available, I think that the troop has more of an obligation to
>make sure that the character of the troop is in the broadest possible terms.
>
>chris

If possible, boys MAY choose to enter a troop that has similar
interests to their own.  On the the other hand, my Webelos Den has
said they all want to join the same troop (and we have ~ 4 or 5 to
choose from).  Also, lets assume for the moment that the boy observes
religion X, but the troop does a lot of high adventure things and is
very religion Y oriented.  Should the boy find that he can't
experience high adventure things because of a religious atmosphere?  I
would much prefer to see that the troops character is in the broadest
possible terms regardless of how many troops are nearby. 

Jeff Edelheit		email:  edelheit@mitre.org
The MITRE Corporation	voice:  (703) 883-7586
7525 Colshire Drive	FAX:	(703) 883-1397
McLean, VA   22102
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: dunne@physics (Robert C. Dunne)
Subject: Making up patrols
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 02:18:49 GMT
Summary: picking patrols
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Keywords: patrol

I would like to know how other troops make up patrols. We have tried
different methods with mixed results. Allowing the Scouts to make up
their own minds (in our experience) creates a strong patrol where most
of the boys are into Scouting and a weak patrol (made up of the leftovers).
Another method of boys choosing one other boy they wanted to be with and
the Scouters making up the final list. I have realize that good friends
usually make a good patrol but also realize that mixing allows boys to 
interact with boys he would not normally choose. You must also contend
with the boy no one seems to want in their patrol.

If anyone has a sure-fire method of picking good patrols, I would like
to see it posted.

			Bob Dunne
			ASM Troop 368
			Berkeley Hts. NJ
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: jhansen@convex.com (James Hansen)
Subject: Re: Jesus vs. Cub Scouts?
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 16:33:11 GMT
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

In <1992Oct5.132730.15229@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> mpb@troy.uucp (22161-bunz) writes:

>One of the NICE things about scouting in the USA is that it is designed to
>foster an acceptance of All religious beliefs,

... except the one whose members worship the null-god.

--
James B. Hansen                                  {sun,uunet}!convex!jhansen
CONVEX Computer Corporation                              jhansen@convex.com
3000 Waterview Parkway, P. O. Box 833851
Richardson, TX 75083-3851                              Phone: (214)497-4802
From: mwilson@orl.mmc.com (Mark Wilson)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Seeking advice on Eagle Court of Honor
Date: 2 Oct 92 14:49:47 GMT
Reply-To: mwilson@orl.mmc.com
Organization: Martin Marietta Orlando

In article 19526@news.mentorg.com, peteg@std.mentorg.com (Peter Galambos SST-C2139) writes:
>1) I've seen references to 'Woods Wisdom: Troop Program Features' in
>   regard to planning Courts of Honor.  Is this worth looking at?

Yes. You might also try to find an older ceremonys book. They have several other
ideas you might want to pursue.

>2) Is it advisable to send out RSVP type invitations or are informal
>   invitations OK?

It depends on what you want to do in the way of reception afterwards. For light
snacks or less, informal is best. For a dinner, RSVP is almost a must.

>3) How long of a ceremony should be planned?  What seems to be the best
>   time (Saturday, Sunday, afternoon, evening)?

When does your son want to do it? Remember that the mind can only absorb what the 
seat can endure.

>4) What type of food/refreshments should be provided?

I've seen everything from chips-n-dip to sit down dinners. It probably depends
on your budget and how many people you think will attend. Personally, I went
the crackerbarrel route. Others in the troop also brought in deserts so the
reception had a carry in feel.

>5) Any advice on advance publicity?

Announcements in the paper are usually after the fact. Many local papers will
send a photographer or will give you guidelines on submitting a photo. Be sure to
include all the troops in the district on your invite list (one to the SM is 
enough). If your district has a newsletter, thats another place to let folks
know.

>6) Any advice on format of the ceremony (what to include, what to
>   avoid, sequencing)?

The ceremony should be developed by a small committee consisting of the boy,
his parents, and the Scoutmaster. Use a sequence based on one of the ceremonies 
in the references as a guide. Your troop may have already established some traditions
for Eagle Courts.

>7) Any other interesting experiences/comments/ideas?

Try to involve as many people who were important in your son's Scouting life as
possible. Also involve the boys in the troop in the ceremony in some way.

I went to one Eagle Court where they were able to do an all ranks court of honor
that ended with the Eagle. It was pretty impressive.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Wilson                              Martin Marietta E,I & M Group
mwilson@orl.mmc.com                      Mail Point 170
Phone: (407)356-6386                     P.O. Box 555837
Fax:   (407)436-5482                     Orlando, FL, 32855-5837
My opinions are my opinions, Martin Marietta can speak for itself.
From: Wayne.Hessel@ (Wayne Hessel)
Sender: UUCP@p0.f209.n221.z1.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Scout names for troop leaders
Date: 01 Oct 92  14:22:00 EST

Hello my name is Wayne Hessel I am a troop Scouter in Kitchener, 
Ontario Canada.  I saw your discussion on names and thought I would put 
in my two cents in..... In my troop we use the term scouter or the term 
scouter Wayne this way they are not using or fist names but they don't 
have to use Mr.
This is what we do for what it's worth
Yours in Scouting
Wayne Hessel
From: rcano@bnr.ca (Bob Cano)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Jesus vs. Cub Scouts?
Date: 6 Oct 92 01:19:37 GMT
Reply-To: rcano@bnr.ca
Organization: BNR Ottawa, Fibre Systems Development


I have been following this thread, and i guess it's time for me to
throw in my piece. As a cub leader, I make no secret of my own 
faith (catholic). At the same time I don't reject anyone who
has no faith, and I encourage boys of other faiths to observe
and practice their own religion. My basic attitude is that I will not
tell God how he wants to be worshiped. 

I'm not aware of any Scouts Canada restriction about athiests.
Our pack is open to all, and I think most of out leaders
(myself included) would rebel if we were told otherwise.

One of the speakers at a recent training conference here in
Ottawa summed up the 'love and serve god' part of the cub 
promise as "there is a supreme being, and he ain't you".
I think that should work for most boys, even those with no 
religion should get the message (for the militants down 
south, translate 'supreme being' into something you can agree
with). 

The ideals we are supposed to be teaching are universal, I just 
happen to find my inspiration, as a teacher, in my own faith.

-- 
Bob Cano           Bell-Northern Research    | Akela
rcano@.bnr.ca      P.O. Box 3511, Stn. C     | 36th Ottawa Cub Pack
                   Ottawa, Ontario, Canada   | 
(613)763 4086      K1Y 4H7                   |   
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: eclarke@ibmpa.awdpa.ibm.com (Eric S. Clarke)
Subject: Re: OA
Organization: IBM Advanced Workstations Division, Palo Alto
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 92 19:58:41 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.212408.24461@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, jsgoldma@nyx.cs.du.edu (Jeremy Goldman) writes:
|> Greetings:
|> I am a current Life Scout from Troop 18 in Baltimore, MD.  We are a unique
|> Jewish Troop that are relatively new, and I am one of the first joining
|> members.  I would like to explain my expiriences on my OA ordeal.
|> 
|>
|> I told my Alangamat (spelling?) that I couldn't eat the ham because I keep
|> kosher. 

This is not even that unusual a request.  I can remember several kids from
when I worked in the mess hall making similar requests.

|> From then on, he would not stop insulting, making fun, and
|> mouthing off to me the whole time.  

One's background should make no difference.  I, for one, would never stand 
for that kind of disrespect.  In the future, you should know that if there
is an on going problem, you have the right to seek help then and there.  If
other members of your troop go through an ordeal, let them know that they
can and should break their vow of silence to stop abuse and ask for the
OA advisor to take appropriate actions.


|> This weekend really bothers me, because I expected the best if the best
|> kids to be in OA, but I learned differently.  As a 14 year old scout, I
|> know that OA elections are much more a popularity contest, than meaningful
|> elections.  What are your feelings on this event?

I suspect that if popularity had much to do with anything, I would never
have been elected to the OA.  I was never elected to be an SPL or similar
post; however, it was recognized that for the requirements of the OA, I fit.
I was one two kids from my troop that was elected at the same time.  The
other kid who was much more popular than I, went through his ordeal and 
never returned.  I spent much of the next 15 years working or advising in
several different OA lodges.

I do know that in some troops, elections can be some-what of a popularity
contest.  But it also depends on how things are presented to the troop.  I
advised the elections team in the Coastal Carolina Council's lodge for a few
years.  I think the biggest part of the whole thing was that most of the
kids were so impressed by the events surrounding the election that the 
tended to vote for the kids that had served the troop and would probably
serve the council in the future.  The bottom line though is that the 
Scoutmaster should only certify kids that he feels should be in the OA.  

|> 
|>    WWW,
|>    Jeremy Goldman
|>    Troop 18 --> Owings Mills, JCC i
|> 

-- 

Eric S. Clarke                     INTERNET:  eclarke@ibmpa.awdpa.ibm.com 
1055 Joaquin Road                      UUCP:  uunet!ibmsupt!eclarke
Moutain View, CA 94043             IBM VNET:  ECLARKE at ALMADEN
415-694-3858  T/L: 466-3858
From: peteg@pdx.mentorg.com (Peter Galambos SST-C2139)
Subject: Looking for advice on Eagle Court of Honor
Originator: peteg@peteg
Organization: engr
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 18:59:23 GMT


My son has passed his Eagle Board and we're starting to think about
the Court of Honor and have a whole bunch of questions.  I'm hoping
some of you who have been through this can offer some advice:

1) Is it advisable to send out RSVP style invitations or just pass
   the word around?

2) How long of a ceremony should be planned?  What seems to be the best
   time (Saturday, Sunday, afternoon, evening)?

3) What type of food/refreshments should be provided?

4) Any advice on publicity?

5) Any advice on format of the ceremony (what to include, what not to
   include, what order to do things in)?

6)  Any other tips or interesting experiences/comments/ideas?

	Pete Galambos  peteg@std.mentorg.com
	Committee Chairman, Troop 670  Columbia Pacific Council
From: rdc30@nmrdc1.nmrdc.nnmc.navy.mil (Code-03 LCDR Michael E. Dobson)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Can the Knot be carried forward to Boy Scouts(was Jesus vs. Cub Scouts?)
Date: 5 Oct 92 17:37:10 GMT
Organization: Naval Medical Research & Development Command

In article <1992Oct5.150452.21647@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger) writes:
>In article <1992Oct5.134012.15590@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> mpb@troy.uucp (22161-bunz) writes:
>>If a boy earns his God and Me emblem (Protastant) and knot, can he continue
>>to wear the knot when he goes into boy scouts?
>>
>>I'd assume so, since it is NOT a Cub Scout award, and thus would not
>>violate the fact that the only patch that can be carried forward is the
>>Arrow of Light.
>>
>>But I'd like to find out for sure.
>
>There is a "knot" patch that's sewn above one of the pockets (and unless
>I see my son's uniform, I won't know which one) that signifies that a
>religious award was earned.  I believe the knot signifies one award, and
>if a boy has two (like the Cub Scout and Boy Scout award), he' supposed
>to wear two of the pin-on stars on either side of the patch.

It's a silver square knot on a purple background.  It can be carried
forward onto the Boy Scout uniform and as Stan says, you wear two stars if
you have earned awards as both a Cub and Boy Scout.  In fact, it can be
carried forward further still.  I wear Religious Emblem (boy) and Arrow of
Light knots along with my Eagle knot on my Scouter's uniform.

Mike Dobson
CM Pack 1071
MC Troop 1071
Olde Mill District, National Capital Area Council  
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: mpb@troy.uucp (22161-bunz)
Subject: Re: Cub Scout Leaders
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 92 15:18:07 GMT

In article <63770002@hpcc01.corp.hp.com>, petruno@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Pat Petruno) writes:
> I'm looking for help.  Does anyone else have problems recruiting leaders
> for dens.  We have plenty of kids.
> 
> Pat Petruno
> 
> 
> 

YES!  Last year we didn't have a second Wolf leader until December.

This year, we need a second Bear leader (I don't think the second wolf
leader will be back), a committee chairperson, advancement chairperson,
Cubmaster, Ast. Cubmaster, and my guess is we could use a Wolf den leader
or two as well.  All in all, we have a pretty shaky Pack at the moment.
We've had several Cubmasters lined up, but they've backed out.  We'll
see what happens with the current candidate!

Since I was at the Sept. Round Table, I signed my name as a contact for
School Night for Scouting.  As a result, I've been getting a number of calls
for people wanting to know where they should send their son's so they can
start going to the meetings.  I've used the opportunity to explain that
no parents have signed on to lead for their son's age group, or that
existing groups are FULL, and that we need parents to join as leaders.
They must hear what I'm saying, but just respond with OK, then could you
let me know when you have leaders lined up for my son?

It's really sad in my mind that this happens.  For the most part, being
a Den Leader ISN'T that hard, and it doesn't take a lot of time.  I may
spend about an hour gathering supplies if we are doing a craft at the meeting,
and generally come early and stay late to talk to my ADL, but other than
that most of my parents are hanging around the meeting anyway, just to
lend a hand, or they realize that they don't have enough time to do
anything else before they have to be back to pickup their son.

I think the problem is two fold:

1) Parents write a check for registration and think that that is sufficient
   to provide the leadership - Like I'm paid for this, and its my job -
   why do they need to get involved.

2) Fear of the unknown - they don't know what is involved, and would like
   to leave it alone.

The first problem needs to be addressed by making it clear to parents
that they HAVE to be involved, one way or another.  Either they will 
have a line job (e.g., Den Leader), or they will have to be involved
in helping with a special event (e.g., B&G committee, or Pinewood Derby).

The second problem needs to be addressed by letting parents know that
there is litterally tons of information available to them (OK, a slight
exageration), and that there are lots of people they can talk to in
order to get ideas.  Convience them that they can pretty much do
what THEY feel their Scouts would like.

Anyway, there are other Packs that have problems recruiting
leaders.  Do any of you who don't have these problems have any
additional suggestions?

Marc

Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: anthropo@carina.unm.edu (Dominick V. Zurlo)
Subject: Re: Jesus vs. Cub Scouts?
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 92 15:16:21 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

In article <1992Oct5.214737.1354@infonode.ingr.com> stevenst@iaserv.b1.ingr.com (Todd Stevens) writes:
>Marc Bunz writes:
>
>>The summary line about says it all!  The religious emblems and knots are
>>awarded by the Scout's Religious Organization (i.e., temple, etc.), not by
>>you, or your pack.
>
>Doesn't the pack award the knot?  Isn't it a BSA award?
 Yes, it's a BSA award, but done through the religious Org.
>
>>Do you also feel you have a moral dilemma if one of
>>your Scouts wears a Star of David around his neck?  That should not bother
>>you any more than someone wearing a cross.
>
>But I as a representative of BSA didn't put the Star of David around his
>neck so it doesn't bother me at all.
 that's nice to hear.
>
>>One of the NICE things about scouting in the USA is that it is designed to
>>foster an acceptance of All religious beliefs, and as a result it should
>>be hoped that you would not have a problem with one of your Scouts following
>>HIS (his family's) beliefs.
>
>I have a responsibility to share Jesus Christ with the world, but not to force
>it upon anyone.  The problem I have is being viewed in any way as PROMOTING a 
>false belief.
 AH, and once again, here is the issue, you also can not promote your religion
any more than another and still be true to the scouting traditions. Just 
because you may feel it a false belief does not mean it is.  It isn't true
for you becuase you do not believe in it, but then christianity may not be
true for those who do not believe in it.  if you can not accept other 
religions in this context, and FULLY respect them, then you do not belong
 in a leadership position.  What would you do if a boy had a religious 
question about Buddah for example?  WOuld you present it in an unbiased
manner, explaining it, or refer him to someone who could? (either of which 
would be acceptable) or would you tell the boy to forget about that 
heather religion?  (granted, I'm taking great liberties with wording here,
but I think you get my point.)
WWW
Dominick V. Zurlo
Eagle Scout '87
blacklisted '88
B4/5 f+ w (c+d)v g++ k+(+)v s(-/+)v m e r(+) p
>
>


Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: edelheit@smiley.mitre.org (Jeff Edelheit)
Subject: Re: Jesus vs. Cub Scouts?
Keywords: Cub usa policy faith religion bsa
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 14:14:01 GMT

In article <1992Oct5.131105.4629@infonode.ingr.com> stevenst@iaserv.b1.ingr.com (Todd Stevens) writes:
>
>This is apparently quite a hot button for this group!  The last thing I
>want is for you rec.scouters to think I am at all anti-Semitic, anti-Islamic,
>or any other anti's you label me with.  I will respond to Donald's article
>because I believe it gets to the heart of the matter.  I believe I must
>respect everyones right to practice their faith as they see fit (as long
>as it does no harm to anyone else).  Specifically, my problem is with
>actively promoting or encouraging a faith that discredits Jesus Christ as
>Lord and Savior of mankind.  I guess as long as it is clear to everyone 
>involved that the Scout award given to the boy who has achieved an Islamic/
>Jewish/Hindu/Buddist emblem is to not be interpreted IN ANY WAY as PROMOTING 
>or ENCOURAGING his faith, then I would be comfortable supporting it.  But how 
>can it not promote or encourage?  Isn't that the purpose of an award??
>
>
>Todd Stevens

I had a problem with Todd's first posting and I find this posting to
be as distressing and distasteful as the first.

My first concern is his lack of understanding of comparative
religions.  I cannot speak for the Hindu or Buddist faiths, but can
relate my understanding of Judaism.  Specifically, Jews do not
discredit Jesus as the Lord and Savior of mankind; we just do not
accept him as the messiah.  There has been a lengthy thread on
soc.culture.jewish responding to the posting "Why don't Jews accept
Jesus as the messiah."  I suggest that if you're really interested, go
look there.  Otherwise, my brief synopsis is "When the messiah comes,
he will be announced by Elijah the Prophet and "man shall not make war
against man again".  Since we have had a few altercations in the last
2,000 years or so, we Jews do not accept Jesus.  (BTW, one of the
s.c.j. postings pointed out that Christ has Greek roots, meaning
something like Messiah, hence my not calling Jesus by his second
name.)

Second, Todd's postings go along way in reinforcing the mistaken
belief that BSA is a Christian organization.

Third, if Todd can't separate his beliefs from his role as a Scouter
(encouraging boys to grow, rewarding them for positive accomplishments)
(and equate awarding a religious award to the latter), then he should
step down.

Jeff Edelheit		email:  edelheit@mitre.org
Cubmaster and Webelos Den Leader, Pack 159
Patawomack District, National Capital Area Council