From: slzm9@cc.usu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.rap
Subject: Re: Flow vs. Message? (was Re: Charles Barkley)
Date: 12 Aug 92 17:08:53 MDT
Organization: Utah State University

In article <BsMIz5.79F@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>, dwarner@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (david j warner) writes:
> In article <fedde.713085527@Vaduz> fedde@Vaduz.docs.uu.se (Fedde Engler) writes:
>>ross@refine.enet.dec.com (The Vinyl Record Collector) writes:
>>
>>>Maybe my use of the word, 'think,' was wrong.  
>>>...
>>>...
>>>Like, when PE made, 'Don't Believe The Hype,' I'm sure Chuck D. thought about
>>>what he was doing, but it just sounded like the anger against the media was so
>>>built up that the words were half way there already and lyrical ideas just 
>>>came to him.  But take, "Fear Of A Black Planet," and it sounded like he 
>>>was forcing things out.  And I thought that was terrible album.
>>
>>Hmmmm...yes. I guess I did missunderstand what you wrote. I thought you
>>were supporting that kind of "weak" rap, but now I see exactly what you
>>mean. Hadn't really seen in that way...
> 
> Well, I disagree that "Black Planet" was that bad, but a few of the songs
> did lack the smoothness of "Nation of Millions." I think any basic flow (i.e.
> a basic freestyle where you can predict half of the stuff, like the 86-88
> stuff mentioned in this thread) from Chuck D on a PE record wouldn't be good
> for the group, because a lot of fans expect that political message. ("...push
> the Bush/Hope the cracker gets crushed." -NightTrain")  
>

   But "Yo, Bum Rush the Show" flowed really well and only a couple of
the songs were really dope, lyrically. It was Nation and Fear that really
carried the message. And now you would have to include Apocalypse. But
my point is that flow didn't make Bum one of the two biggest albums PE
ever put out. I think most agree that Nation and Fear were the two best
albums PE ever did. I would agree.
 
>>>A lot of times, the product is not as good as past products because it
>>>wasn't as much fun to do, or certain artists, who slammed when they first came
>>>out with a album they thought was good, are now working too hard to make an
>>>album that they think their audience will think is good; like a, "We think the
>>>crowd wants to hear this, so lets do this," mentality.  Not that these albums
>>>come out completely wack or anything, but just not as good as previous works.
> 
>>Yeah...and that is kinda bad. Most of the preasure seems to come from media
>>when they write : "Will their new one be a success like their first one?".
>>I mean...I do realise that's a preasure.
> 

   But plenty of artists have gone the other way. John Cougar Mellencamp
regained his name and started making songs with a social message after
he got big enough to tell his label what he would do. Early in his
career Mellencamp was obviously putting out stuff the label wanted. Plus
he was able to change his name back eventually.

> Just a sidenote: Large Professor of Main Source talks a lot about how the
> lyrics on a rhyme are as important as a dope beat, and how just doing those
> worn out freestyles and such without developing does nothing for rap music,
> and that's the kind of stuff that should be dropped like a bomb on Serbia.
> 
>>Peace, Gee...
>>
>>Fedde (fedde@bern.docs.uu.se)
> 
> 5000...
> 
> 
> -- 
> - David J. --------- BLUE RIDDLE PRODUCTIONS.  Bloomington, IN; Durham, NC. -
> - e-mail: dwarner@miami.ucs.indiana.edu -------------------------------------
> ***************** "RAP IS AN ART/TURN UP THE MICROPHONE" ********************
> ***************** BRP's debut 12" single -- coming soon  ********************

    There are a couple of more thoughts on this one. One, why doesn't
Kris Parker go get a DJ and a producer and get some really slammin'
beats? I listen to BDP because it is so good lyrically but why can't
Kris see that he needs better music. Two, IMHO Fear of a Black Planet
was, lyrically, the best album ever made. There are more Great songs
on that album than any other... Pollywanna, 911 is a joke, Brothers gonna
work it out, Anti-nigger-machine, the title cut etc. etc.

Peace, but not without justice,

Zip