HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: ISLAMIC WORLD NEWS-SOMALIA
From: Amos.Omondi@comp.vuw.ac.nz (Amos Omondi)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 23:57:18 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Comp. Sci., Victoria Uni. of Wellington, New Zealand.

In article <BtCD1p.1H3@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> kautaj@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (kauta) writes:
>>>
>>>Hear hear. I agree with you 100%. This is a diss to all the arabs who
>>>would want to force Islam down the throats of Black Africans e.g. in the
>>>Sudan.
>>>
>>
>>Similar remarks may be made about our Arab "brothers" in the Middle East.  
>>While we seem to be in the same boat whenever the USA is beating up one 
>>of them, let us note that while our people continue to die daily in 
>>Somali, not one of the billions of oil dollars that they have seems to 
>>be capable of finding its way south.
>>
>
>This is very complex...We side with the Arab nations when it comes to the
>Israel-Palestinian issues yet when they raise their oil prices, most African
>states suffer...When the blak states wanted Salim Salim to be the Secretary
>General of the UN 6-7 years ago, the Arab states were very cool about all
>that...Saudi Arabia (and Iran, a non-Arabic state) always sells Oil to South
>Africa despite the embargo...Iraq traded with SA and the list of nasty stuff
>goes on...
>
>On the other hand, Israel deals with SA more than necessary so siding with her
>is obviously stupid..
>
>However, most of these decisions are made by local tyrants who are just bent 
>on maintaining power. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Saudi Arabia was
>ordered by the US to sell Oil to SA. (Or they felt in so doing the boss would
>be pleased. After all, they have funded reactionary groups from the Contras
>to RENAMO and UNITA). Sese Seko and others have been ordered to do the most 
>hideous things to other Africans.
>
>What we need is self-sufficiency and up-right leadership. Then we can take 
>care of our people first. After that, we can extend our love to our Arab
>brethren and Israeli Jews of good will. It would be a mistake to equate 
>policies of a govt with those of ordinary people in those countries. Unless, 
>of course, we are talking about SA whites who have FREELY voted for the 
>oppressive machinery there. For the most part anyway!


I was thinking of our tyrants and effete intellectuals, not 
the "ordinary people".  Perhaps some support at the tyrant-level would 
be possible ... But so far we have yet to get even one of the high-sounding 
but empty speeches that they do so well up there.  In any case, I 
have seen litle evidence that the USA has commanded them not to help 
in any way.



Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: vamg6792@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Mpthirus)
Subject: UPI: World Bank's policies have negative impact on environment
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 01:35:34 GMT


	
	WASHINGTON (UPI) -- Economic development policies of the International
Monetary Fund and the World Bank encouraged deforestation and other
environmental damage in the Philippines and other countries, according
to a report to be published Monday.
	The World Resources Institute said despite some increased awareness
about environmental protection, the two international development
agencies continue funding projects and promoting anti-environment
policies.
	``The effects of neglecting the environment in macroeconomic policy
are quite severe,'' said James Gustave Speth, president of the World
Resources Institute, an independent research organization.
	The report, which analyzed how World Bank and IMF policies affected
development in the Philippines, concluded that the Philippines economy
was threatened more during the 1980s by depletion of natural resources
than by its mounting foreign debt.
	``Macroeconomic policies depressed the returns on investments and the
continued increase in external indebtedness all shifted resources to
current uses at the expense of future income,'' the report said.
	Policies which were intended to stablize the Philippines economy
after suffering from soaring oil prices in the late 1970s forced
migration into the country's highland forest areas and led to increased
deforestation, over-fishing and other natural resource depletion, said
Robert Repetto, the study's co-author.
	``Stabilization had the unintended effect of depleting the resources,
'' Repetto said, even though ``it certainly is possible to design
stablization programs that are more sensitive to environmental concerns.
''
	``World Bank policies tried to open up trade....At the same time,
they provided incentives to increase production from raw materials,''
Repetto said, adding that the policies were in place without any
environmental safeguards.
	In May, the World Bank devoted its annual development report to the
linkage between long-term development and environmental protection. The
agency said many of the bank's past projects had damaging environmental
consequences that future projects need to address.
	But Repetto said the change in attitude was not enough, and such
changes had not occurred at the International Monetary Fund.
	``At the World Bank there have been some increasing efforts to get at
environmental effects of policy-based lending, but they are at early
stages, and much more needs to be done,'' Repetto said.
	However, the International Monetary Fund leadership has resisted
efforts to consider environmental policy when planning development
projects, he said. ``The fund at the moment has very little capability
in the environmental area,'' he said.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: antbh@strix.udac.uu.se (Bernhard Helander)
Subject: Re: ISLAMIC WORLD NEWS (25th)
Organization: UDAC, Uppsala, Sweden
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 07:41:14 GMT

If you study that first article on Somalia that appeared in IWN you fill find
that some of the actual formulations correspond to the declaration of the 
Baardhere agreement where the Somali National Alliance was formed. SNA is
a military and political alliance between two (actually four but two of them
are militarily insignificant) of the factions fighting in Southern Somalia, the
USC and the SPM (the two small groupings are the SSNM and the SDM). I would 
have reacted as strongly had the article instead represented exclusively the
 opinion of Ali Mahdis "government" or general Morgan. The point is that 
IWN issued war-propaganda!.

As for my opinions about the UN you will have to distinguish between
the security council and the sort of political side of the extremely inert
UN machinery on the one hand, and the extremely able hands of Mohamed
Sahnoun and the S-G in which the fate of Somalia now rests.

Nabad! (Peace)

Bernhard
-- 
*****************************************************************************
*                                  *                                        *
* Bernhard Helander                * Telephone: +46-18-182289 (office)      *
* Dept of Cultural Anthropology    *            +46-18-303448 (home)        *
* University of Uppsala            *                                        *
* Tradgardsgatan 18                * Fax:       +46-18-151160               *
* S-753 09 Uppsala                 *                                        *
* Sweden                           * E-mail: Bernhard.Helander@antro.uu.se  *                                  
*                                  *                                        *
*****************************************************************************
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: antbh@strix.udac.uu.se (Bernhard Helander)
Subject: Re: Somalia action notes, UN nos.
Organization: UDAC, Uppsala, Sweden
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 11:49:35 GMT

If you want to use the FREE faxgateway via the Swedish university network
to reach these diplomatic missions, you go ahead as you would do to send
an ordinary e-mail. As address you write

	for the UK mission: UK_UNmission@f00912127450316.fax.sunet.se

	for the French mission: French_UNmission@f00912127455769.fax.sunet.se

Do remember that the the security council is more or less ruled by three of
its permanent members (the so-called P3, US, UK and France).

A successfull fax would normally result in a message from the gateway within
a few hours, if you have problems try again, THEN drop me a line!




-- 
*****************************************************************************
*                                  *                                        *
* Bernhard Helander                * Telephone: +46-18-182289 (office)      *
* Dept of Cultural Anthropology    *            +46-18-303448 (home)        *
* University of Uppsala            *                                        *
* Tradgardsgatan 18                * Fax:       +46-18-151160               *
* S-753 09 Uppsala                 *                                        *
* Sweden                           * E-mail: Bernhard.Helander@antro.uu.se  *                                  
*                                  *                                        *
*****************************************************************************
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: barnhart@gagme.chi.il.us (Mr Aaron Barnhart)
Subject: Re: IPS postings
Originator: barnhart@gagme
Organization: Evanston, Illinois
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 06:51:56 GMT

Readers of sca may be wondering about repetitive posts of IPS
stories that have surfaced of late.

The causes of this are twofold.  One was temporary; our sysadmin
had made adjustments to the newsposting software that caused the
server to fail some of the time.  After it was corrected, I simply
reposted all stories that I originally had sent out under the bug.
So some showed up twice.

The other cause is a South African poster who also has been re-
posting IPS stories from another (and, I presume, indigenous) group
whose feed he gets a lot sooner than sca.  I have asked him to
avoid repetition, although I will echo his observation that "that's
the net for you."

All best to everyone.

-- 
Mr. Aaron Barnhart@gagme.chi.il.us -- posting from Evanston, Illinois
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african,sanet.talk.politics,apc.reg.safrica
From: vamg6792@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Mpthirus)
Subject: Re: The ANC and the SACP
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 23:41:49 GMT

shaze@cs.ubc.ca (Scott Hazelhurst) writes:

>vamg6792@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Mpthirus) writes:
>>mokaba@binah.cc.brandeis.edu writes:
>>>country's composition.  The ANC... has more Jews than than the AWB and die
>>
>>Used to. Many Jews that in the old days supported the goals of the ANC
>>are now very much opposed to the ANC, due to its tactics of fomenting
>>violence.  Many of the Jewish community even rail at the mention of
>>Nadine Gordimer, these days.

>(As in all communities) there are some very reactionary people in 
>the Jewish community, but I'm still willing to bet there are more
>Jews in the ANC than in the AWB. 

I don't know what you mean by reactionary. The people I am referring to are
quite solid businessmen. Many, if not most, don't want to have anything to
do with either the ANC or the AWB. 

I think that's the whole point: most South Africans don't want to be aligned
with either the ANC or the AWB. I think it's rather simplistic to think that
every person in South Africa is a white racist or a black racist. Most people
are neither, notwithstanding the skewed representation on this forum.

 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african,sanet.talk.politics
From: dcollins@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (david collins)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: SOMALIA AID
Date: 30 Aug 92 21:56:29 GMT
Reply-To: dcollins@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (david collins)
Distribution: usa
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX
Originator: dcollins@thumper.cc.utexas.edu
From: Steve Askin <saskin@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Date: 31 Aug 92 19:56 PDT
Subject: NCR: Groups which help Somalia
Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1471700096:000:827
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!saskin    Aug 31 19:56:00 1992


From the National Catholic Reporter, September 4, 1992
 
HOW TO SEND HELP
 
Following are some agencies that accept donations for African
relief:
 
Catholic Relief Services, 209 W. Fayette St., Baltimore, MD 21201
     (410)-625-2220
American Red Cross, Box 37243, Washington, DC 20013
     (800)-842-2200
American Friends Serv. Comm., 1501 Cherry St., Phila, PA 19102
     (215)-241-7141
World Vision, POB 1131, Pasadena, CA 91131 
     (800)-423-4200
UNICEF, 331 East 38th St., New York, NY 10016
     (212)-686-5522
Care International, 660 First Ave., New York, NY 10016
     (212)-686-3110
Oxfam-America, 115 Broadway, Boston, MA 02116
     (800)-225-5800
Food for the Hungry, 77729 E. Greenway Rd., Scottsdale, AZ 85260
     (800)-2-HUNGER
 
For more addresses or information, contact: 
     InterAction, (202)-667-8227
 

Newsgroups: sanet.talk.politics,soc.culture.african
From: g91h7029@alpha.ru.ac.za (Wayne Humphries)
Subject: Re: Freedom of Expression
Organization: Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 06:34:28 GMT

In <1992Aug29.011231.202575@uctvax.uct.ac.za> hllhar01@uctvax.uct.ac.za writes:
>> 
>> What South Africa needs is a whole new way of thinking about government -
>> no just a change in overlords.

>Yes, I'm afraid I always detect the lust for power driving ANC rhetoric about
>majority rule and unity. The sad fact is that with all the changes in South
>Africa, black politicians have suddenly realised that there's quite a large pie
>out there for grabs, and I don't think their sincerety when talking about
>political equality goes as far as their desire for a large slice. Cynical you
>may say...nah, just realistic - its the same old pattern the world has seen
>time after time. There are very few people in the world who really give a hoot
>about justice - the quest for power drives politicians.

>I agree with your statement about requiring a new way of thinking about
>government - what South Africa needs is for a whole lot of commonly accepted
>principles to be re-examined, carefully and objectively. For example, what
>exactly is a democracy, and what type of democracy is best for this country?
>It's also time the ANC got serious about minority rights - of course that means
>that a realistic system of minority rights would have to be developed by the
>NP, among others, which doesn't simply boil down to minority rule again.

>Hardy Hulley

Politics is activity in relation to power. Politics devises (through the intellect)
systems of mind control. One of the best is democracy. The illusion that the people
govern. The illusion that they are free. The illusion that they are all equal. 
Inevitably, democracy is but only the political weapon of Money and its sibling,
the Press. You assume democracy therefore you assume someone else's mindset. Democracy
is a word that has been elevated to the status of a religion. It has its dogma, its
cant, its liturgy like any other religion. Bear in mind though that its high priests
are rich men. The black is tribal and in his heart understands only the idea of tribal
chief and witchdoctor. This feeling is pursued even in urban africa. Only a small
percentage have fully assimmilated the culture of the white.
From: laing@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Peter Laing)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: unity and other myths
Summary: adjustment
Date: 4 Sep 92 04:09:34 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

> Die Stem van Suid-Afrika
> 
> Uit die blou van onse hemel, uit die diepte van ons see
> Oor ons ewige gebergtes waar die kranse antwoord gee
> Deur ons ver verlate vlaktes met die kreun van ossewa
> Ruis die stem van ons geliefde, van ons land Suid-Afrika
> Ons sal antwoord op jou roepstem, ons sal offer wat jy vra
> Ons sal lewe, one sal sterwe, ons vir jou Suid-Afrika..
> 
> From the blue of our heavens, from the depths of our sea
> Over our eternal mountains where the crags echo
> Across our far-flung plains with the creaking of ox waggons
> sounds the voice of our beloved, of our land South Africa
> We will respond to your call, we will give what you ask
> we will live or we will die, we are yours South Africa.

  Ringing out from our blue heavens, from our deep seas breaking round,
  Over our everlasting mountains, where the echoing crags resound,
  Over plains where creaking wagons, cut their trails into the earth, 
  ---------
  At thy call we shall not faulter, firm and steadfast we shall stand
  At thy will to live or perish, for our land South Africa.

  Many years ago I was a Boy Scout and we had to memorise the 
  National Anthem in both languages. The line denoted ----
  has skipped my memory for the moment, but the others are
  pretty much correct. 

  Enjoy,
          Peter Laing.

> Accuracy not guaranteed. I've typed both from memory, and translated both on 
> the fly. 
> 
> "Die stem" has three more verses, but I don't think I can remember them all. 
> There is also an official English translation in verse, but it's kitsch and 
> banal and I don't know it, nor do I want to.
 
  I suppose that's the one I've just written above?!?
From: malek@pi.titech.ac.jp (Zidouri Abdelmalek 03/95)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: SAUDI-ARABIA PROMOTES RACISM IN EGYPT
Date: 3 Sep 92 23:55:50 GMT
Organization: Tokyo Institute of Tech., Precision and Intelligence Lab., Japan
In-reply-to: Steve.Hayes@p5.f22.n7101.z5.fidonet.org's message of 1 Sep 92 16:04:00 GMT

In article <2019.2AA50570@catpe.alt.za> Steve.Hayes@p5.f22.n7101.z5.fidonet.org (Steve Hayes) writes:

 [ deletion ]
> Saudi-Arabia was celebrating its achievement by a cultural exhibition in New 
> York in March 1990. It was promoted as an ally of democratic forces against 
 
 It's pretty old news ! Any specific reason for it NOW.

> The Saudi-Arabian government has been establishing Islamic banks and companies 
 
 None in Saudi Arabia itself up to now. So if this true I don't see 
 anything  wrong with it. And they are to be blamed for not establishing 
 this in Arabia itself. 
 
> which don't hire Christians, or conduct any transaction with them. It also 
>  asks the Egyptian government not to hire or promote the Copts to leadership 
>  positions using its financial aid to Egypt to force the Copts to Islam by 
>  unemployment and hunger. 

  Like Botros Botros Ghali. 
[ deletion ]

> The Saudi-Arabian government has been supporting all the fanatic Muslim 
> fundamentalist groups who are conducting a holy war (jihad) against the Copts 
 
 Like sending arms through Kenya to John Garang to fight the so-called
 "fundamentalist" regime in Sudan. IF there was  any help to some muslim
  groups In AFGANISTAN it was from the Saudi PEOPLE and not the gvt.
 As to TO JIHAD AGAINST THE COPTS who has decleared this Jihad ?
 The Sheikh of ELAZHAR may be! Does this propaganda has anything
 to do with the MASSACRE OF MUSLIM BOSNIANS BY THE ORTHODOX SERBS?

[ deletion ]
>   Saudi-Arabia the fief of the Saudi family, has supported the Islamic 
>   government of Sudan in a genocidal war against the Southern Sudan to impose 
>   Islamic law on its Christian and animist population. 
 
 This is  REALLY FUNNY , as every body  knows now about the scandal of 
 the Saudi Arms sent to the rebels in the south of Sudan. The proofs
 have been shown by  The Sudanese Government and the ship has been 
 held in kenya for some time only  about  two months  ago.
 
 [ deletion ]
--
 Malek.
 
 "We cooperate in what we agree on, and forgive each other for that
  in which we disagree." Hassan El Banna.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: u925599@postoffice.utas.edu.au (Chris Stapelberg)
Subject: Are you South African?
Organization: University of Tasmania
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 01:10:14 GMT

Hi, I am a South African currently staying in Tasmania,Australia.
I am desperately seeking contact with other South Africans
world-wide, but especially in South Africa.

If you can help me, please write to me at

     u925599@postoffice.utas.edu.au

and leave your name and address.
Thank you.
Regards,
Chris.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: gavan@elc.mth.uct.ac.za (Gavan Tredoux)
Subject: Re: The ANC and the SACP
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 92 15:17:52 GMT
Organization: University of Cape Town
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

rwr@uiscpt.aztec.co.za (Richard Ramsden) writes:
: Gavan: What is the source of your assertion "...[The ANC is] Xhosa dominated,
:          at the highest levels ..."?
:        Can you prove this?
:        How would you rate the local support in rural areas country-wide?

Not hard. Try Horowitz's analysis in _A Democratic South Africa_. 
Consult any good history of the ANC and examine its historical
strength in the Eastern Cape (Xhosa) and historical weakness in
Natal (Zulu). This is a question of centres of gravity. The ANC is a
Xhosa led coalition - there are lots of similar examples world wide.
Even here - the Nats are an Afrikaner led coalition. Some elections they got
over 40% of the English vote eg 1977. The Nat exec of the ANC is so
crowded with Xhosas they're now known as the Xhosa Nostra. Work through the list
and jot down the names and their ethnic background. These days the ANC
refuse to divulge the ethnicity of Nat exec members, claiming it isn't relevant.
Sure.

: Recent research has shown that the vast majority of Black people view
: the conflict [on the reef] as ANC vs Inkata and _not_ Xhosa vs Zulu.
: Again what is the source of your assertion?

Among the participants in the conflict, on the reef, where the fighting is
taking place, it is ethnic, with organizations just ethnic tags. Sources?
Try any of the Race Relations surveys for the years in question, RW Johnson's
articles in The Spectator, Schlemmer's paper on violence delivered at the
State Pres. Summit on Violence last year and so on. Well-documented. Consider
incidents like the shouting down of Hani at a Xhosa controlled squatter camp
on the reef, aptly dubbed "Bantu Holomisa" camp, last year, as the crowds
sang traditional Xhosa songs. The train violence is ethnic beyond doubt.
 
: It [ANC] has a few white MPs, and some 
: "white" intellectual support.  What role
: do you think these people will play?

They have some Indians too, and some Coloureds. They'll play the role
of ethnic captives, as they get caught up in the ethnic power struggle and are
either discarded or transformed into zealots driven by their outsider
status, eg. Stalin, Napoleon, Disraeli, Hitler and so on. As for white
"intellectual" support, that seems to be non-denoting. Couldn't resist that.
 
: But I really can't see that kind of ethinicity playing *such* a dominant
: role here *if* a Codesa reaches a settlement, and elections are a success.
: Capture of the State?  Sounds too paranoid.

CODESA and elections won't dampen ethnic conflict, they will sharpen and 
intensify it, as the political system becomes competitive and considerable
rewards (and risks) are available for mobilization on the basis of 
affective ties. This has been the pattern world-wide. In fact repressive systems
are often much better at dampening the conflict, but they have other
costs.

Gavan Tredoux
UCT

Newsgroups: sanet.talk.politics,soc.culture.african
From: g91h7029@alpha.ru.ac.za (Wayne Humphries)
Subject: Re: Freedom of Expression
Organization: Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 18:36:32 GMT

In <frank2.37@underdog.ee.wits.ac.za> frank2@underdog.ee.wits.ac.za (FRANK D N) writes:

>In article <g91h7029.715502068@alpha.ru.ac.za> g91h7029@alpha.ru.ac.za (Wayne Humphries) writes:


>> ....
>> The black is tribal and in his heart understands only the idea of tribal 
>> chief and witchdoctor.
>> ....

>Probably one of the more racist comments I've seen in this group. 


>--
>David Frank       <frank2@underdog.ee.wits.ac.za>
>University of the Witwatersrand, Johannesburg

There is no such thing as race. There is only political (chief)
and religious (witchdoctor) loyalty. State and Church. Yours is
the MOST bigoted, hypocritical and racist attack I have EVER
seen - denying these affiliations to other communities based
on your own Western Cultural viewpoint. Us communists belief
in the community as the basis for life. I detest racist
remarks emanating from drools such as yourself that deny the
ABSOLUTE reality of class - a class that has the right to 
practise its medicine and law as it sees fit.

Wayne Humphries