HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Dale_Adams@gateway.qm.apple.com (Dale Adams)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Palettes and stuff (was Re: Some random thoughts on the A4000)
Date: 28 Sep 92 12:41:13 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc.

In article <1992Sep23.181449.16225@sbcs.sunysb.edu> 
dtiberio@libws2.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio) writes:
>         So, how well does the Quadra's non-interlaced graphics transfer 
to
> video tape? Maybe I should get a Quadra if it transfers to video tape 
better
> than my future Amiga 4000. That's of course if I find time to interweave
> my video work with school...

Non-interlaced video simply doesn't transfer to conventional video tape 
without a fairly expensive scan rate converter.  Of course if you have a 
Quadra you can simply operate it at NTSC or PAL timing (at up to 24 
bits/pixel) and use an external RGB-to-composite video adapter.  You also 
have the option of using the built-in Apple convolution (basically a 
real-time vertical low pass filter) to practically eliminate flicker at 
these timings, although this only works up to 8 bits/pixel.

- Dale Adams
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: ggg@kepler.unh.edu (Gregory G Greene)
Subject: Re: My next machine: Amiga or PC Clone? Help me out.
Organization: University of New Hampshire  -  Durham, NH
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 05:22:10 GMT

>>	I'd say get the Dell 66/486DX2, but add 4 more meg of ram so you can 
>>  run OS2 2.0.  That way you can have it all, great OS, great support, and
>			                       ^^^^^^^^
>
>Oh, you mean the pre-release of Windows NT?  Or do you mean waiting for the
>retail release?
>
>You don't mean DOS, Win3.1, or OS/2, do you?

     I stated OS/2 2.0.  I want nothing to do with any version of Microsloth
   Windows.  It was bad enough that Gateway 2000 preloaded it on my HD.  I'll
   not deny that there are some very nice Windows applications out there, but
   Windows itself I hate.  OS2's Workplace Shell blows it away.
                  
							G.Greene

>
>-- 
> Jerry Kuch (jerry@cs.mcgill.ca) ---- PUT YOUR HAND INSIDE THE PUPPET HEAD.
> "I was wrong to play God.  Life is precious, not a thing to be toyed with.
>  Now take out that brain and flush it down the toilet."
>                  --- M. Burns  "Treehouse of Horror II"
From: bloc1469@ee.ee.uwm.edu (Gregory R. Block)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Dave's Sig/Music Taste
Date: 6 Oct 1992 12:07:40 GMT
Organization: Electrical Engineering Dept. University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.2.33

In article <35590@cbmvax.commodore.com> daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) writes:
>Actually, George was responsible for the B-52's stuff.  I only have one B-52's
>disc, he's got them all (and I do mean all, even the one with five different
>versions of "Love Shack" on it).  I listen to all kinds of stuff, though I do
>have all the REM discs (until tomorrow, since "Automatic For the People" comes
>out in the morning and won't have a chance to get to the music store until
>after work).

Yup.  I'll be buying that.  :D  I've heard there was also a "tribute"
album, done by a lot of strange and unusual artists like the Sonic
Youth, etc...  Heard it's supposed to be really, really unusual.

>Well, the lyrics were always on the schematics.  The A4000 schematics have som
>but Greg put boring stuff on his pages, and even some of mine I think.

I did no such thing.  :D

Greg

--
(: (: (: (: Have you overdosed on smileys today?  Why NOT!?! :) :) :) :)
(: 	"Yeah, if improving the system is screwing the user base,     :)
(:	 you all need to be screwed more often." -Dave Haynie	      :)
(: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
From: ai065@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Thomas Hill)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: TO TONY POOLE (Should Atari Discussions Be Held Here?)
Date: 30 Sep 1992 14:29:06 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc4.ins.cwru.edu


   Tony, my lack of postings had/has nothing to do with you. Of course you
believe the world revolves around you, so I don't blame you for that wrong
impression. Other personal matters have forced me to spend less time on the
net. This is the first time I have read the group in some time, thus I was
shocked to see you still desire to kick around as many people as possible to
bloat your ego. As far as the "many people" crap goes, I believe it was you
and one other person who didn't want to read anything about Atari "at all"
who had something to say. On the other hand, I also had my supporters, both
in private and public mail, if you will recall. The "original" point you were
trying to make is that you don't want to have to read anything about the
competition (Atari in this case) on this board. Instead, I tried to explain to
you the meaning of the word "advocacy". Looked it up for you as a matter of
fact. The topic of discussion doesn't really matter. I've seen you jump on
people time after time. I am responding to a public message you just posted.
While you try to show a good face here, your remark in Email was a very
childish one.

 Now, in order to force this conversation back to the original context, why
do you have a problem with reading about Atari here? Is it a personal dislike
for Atari? Perhaps, shown by your general remark about all Atari users, you
simply do not like Atari users? While it is true that I have posted negative
information about Atari (IE: Profit & sales reports, etc), this does fit the
dimensions of this newsgroup. Many people wish to keep up to date on the
latest news from the competition. The Falcon is a prime example of this. My
initial reaction to the Falcon negative. However, it does look as though
Atari may have done something right this time. We can not make it go away by
sticking our heads in the sand. This machine CAN be a threat to the current
future of the Amiga.

   Tom
-- 
George Bush? He doesn't have a clue anymore. Bill Clinton? A slick smile and
a pandering style. Neither one is being realistic about what it is going to
take. The answer..........? ROSS FOR BOSS! VOTE FOR ROSS PEROT FOR PRESIDENT!
The Cryptozoology Information Network. Want on our Email mailing list? Amiga!
From: ai065@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Thomas Hill)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: TO TONY POOLE (Should Atari Discussions Be Held Here?)
Date: 1 Oct 1992 14:20:36 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc4.ins.cwru.edu


   Tony, I'll be more than happy to "let it rest". Will you allow those who
wish to discuss the Falcon, both pro and con, to do so without resorting to
personal attacks? You know I'm not a fan of Atari. The "negative" information
I posted showed that. However, I feel this new machine does prove to be a
potential threat to the Amiga. Commodore has existed on one thing and one
thing only- the ability to produce a more powerful machine for a better price
than anybody else. If you take that away from the Amiga then you really have
nothing. Why continue so support a machine that isn't advertised, doesn't
enjoy the same market standards that IBM and Apple have, and now looks to be
vastly lacking in features when compared to a lower priced machine. Many
Atari users switched to the Amiga because of this factor. This flow may very
well reverse in the near future. We had better know what potential this new
machine has, and press Commodore to come out with more than the current lame
effort. If this pisses a few people off them I'm sorry, but I don't want to
see an industry leader turn into second best.
-- 
George Bush? He doesn't have a clue anymore. Bill Clinton? A slick smile and
a pandering style. Neither one is being realistic about what it is going to
take. The answer..........? ROSS FOR BOSS! VOTE FOR ROSS PEROT FOR PRESIDENT!
The Cryptozoology Information Network. Want on our Email mailing list? Amiga!
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Emplant? Denise? Agnus? Lisa? Who ARE all these people? : -)
From: lkoop@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (LaMonte Koop)
Date: 27 Sep 92 18:21:52 -0600
Reply-To: lkoop@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU
 <1992Sep27.003043.11030@cs.mcgill.ca>,<1992Sep27.203709.17003@news.iastate.edu>
Organization: SCS GP/Engineering Cluster

In article <1992Sep27.203709.17003@news.iastate.edu>, barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett) writes:
>In article <1992Sep27.003043.11030@cs.mcgill.ca> jerry@cs.mcgill.ca (Gerald (Jerry) KUCH) writes:
>>In article <1992Sep26.145444.18906@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett) writes:
>>>   They are not coprocessors in the real sense, but custom chips.  One of them,
>>             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>
>>Errr...
>>
>>What is this supposed to mean?
>
>   Exactly what I said.  My definition of a 'coprocessor' is a chip that has
>its own instruction set.  Only a tiny portion of one of the Amiga's three
>main custom chips has any instructions, and it is a limited instruction set 
>at that.  I think the copper is located in the Agnus/Alice chip; if so, then
>the Denise/Lisa and Paula chips are NOT coprocessors.

    Well, in the strictest sense, a device being a 'coprocessor' has nothing
to do with whether or not it carries a software-usable instruction set.  The
term is a bit fuzzy in how it is used, but to restrict it to devices which
are control-alterable in software is not really adequate, but rather where
most examples exist.

                 ----------------------------------------
           LaMonte Koop -- SCSU Electrical/Computer Engineering
 Internet: lkoop@tigger.stcloud.msus.edu -OR- f00012@kanga.stcloud.msus.edu
              "You mean you want MORE lights on this thing???"
 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: djs55750@dcl-nxt01 (David John Schulz)
Subject: Re: a4000
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Distribution: comp
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 16:25:08 GMT

"robert buonincontro" <robert.buonincontro@canrem.com> writes:

> So true, Too bad Commodore never went after these users with Hardware
>emulators. To think, we can emulate an IBM 286/386 and a Mac but we
>can't emulate an Apple II or Comomdore 64. 

Well perhaps you should check out Questronix's C64 emulator.  I know it's out
there, and it's PD.  The hardware part (to connect the 1541 or similiar
drive) is the only part that costs money, plus when you order that part, you
also become a registered user.  

As for the Apple II, I _know_ I have seen one.  The only reason I don't have
it know it that inorder to use it you had to have an Apple II to make and
image on the ROM for the emulator to use.  The C64 emulator emulates the ROM,
but comes with a prg that will do the same.

>I have a lot of friends who
>happily chug along with their Commi 64s and their Apple II computers.
>The only reason they don't upgrade is because of all the software they
>have. They would do it in an instant if they could run their old
>programs on a new computer. I'm suprised Apple didn't go after this
>market as well.

This is silly.  So your friends don't like to have _better_ and _faster_
games?  I don't know of anyone who would rather play Pac Man or Dig Dug on
their Atari 2600 than play something else on a faster computer (any platform,
Mac, IBM...).


--
==========================================================================
|  David J. Schulz                     __ "Do what you can with          |
|   djs55750@dcl-nxt01.cso.uiuc.edu   / /  what you have where you are." |
| "Before you see the light      __  / /                                 |
|  you must die."                \ \/ /             -Teddy Roosevelt     |
|          -Slayer                \__/                                   |
==========================================================================
From: kent@swrinde.nde.swri.edu (Kent D. Polk)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Its a sad sad day...
Date: 6 Oct 1992 18:27:32 GMT
Organization: Southwest Research Institute, San Antonio, Texas
NNTP-Posting-Host: swrinde.nde.swri.edu

In article <1992Oct5.065836.4542@desire.wright.edu> fheitkamp@desire.wright.edu writes:
>
>	BTW, has anybody used Amigas in a network environment, sharing files
>	running apps off of servers, hooking up to VMS, unix etc.? 
>	How well do they work?  Just currious.

I use an A3000 with the AS225 package and GfxBase's X11 with the GDA-1
1024x800 8-bit framebuffer on a Mitsubishi DS 16.  This is a very nice
environment IMHO, and not far in overall feel from a Sparc 1 when running X.

Here is DiskSpeed rating over a moderately loaded fileserver:

MKSoft DiskSpeed 4.2  Copyright  1989-92 MKSoft Development
------------------------------------------------------------
CPU: 68030  Normal Video DMA
Device: kent:    Buffers: <information unavailable>
Comments: DiskSpeed 4.2

CPU Speed Rating: 1369

Testing with a 512 byte, MEMF_FAST, LONG-aligned buffer.
Create file:        25728 bytes/sec  |  CPU Available: 66%
Write to file:      32444 bytes/sec  |  CPU Available: 62%
Read from file:    155456 bytes/sec  |  CPU Available: 19%

Testing with a 32768 byte, MEMF_FAST, LONG-aligned buffer.
Create file:       159405 bytes/sec  |  CPU Available: 39%
Write to file:     160175 bytes/sec  |  CPU Available: 39%
Read from file:    204800 bytes/sec  |  CPU Available: 26%

I also have written some socket-based stuff for use with the Web, and socket
connections operate at very reasonable levels. Quite more useful at this
stuff than any DOS box I have ever seen.

Kent Polk: Southwest Research Institute
Internet : kent@swrinde.nde.swri.edu
UUCP     : $ {cs.utexas.edu, gatech!petro, sun!texsun}!swrinde!kent
From: daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: HAM-8 only 256,000 colors?
Date: 5 Oct 92 23:38:33 GMT
Reply-To: daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie)
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA

In article <1a8f4iINNpdt@agate.berkeley.edu> kevinm@ocf.berkeley.edu (Kevin Miller) writes:
>In article <1992Sep28.131102.29608@hsr.no> david-s@ifi.hsr.no writes:
>>Why does C= say that HAM-8 has 256,000 colors?

>>B u t :  This doesn't work on HAM-8: You have 6 bits of color info, i.e.
>>(2^6)^3 = 262,144 (not 256,000!) colors. But you also have a palette of

>Because of the factor of 1024, 262,144 colors is actually 256,000 colors in
>"computer terms" but 262,144 colors in reality.

To use the local lingo, "sorry, but you are completely wrong".  There are no
such "computer terms" used by anyone this side of the planet Mars.  Some folks
may fudge on the exact base for "K" or "M", but no one's arguing the value of
"1".  I think the claim the Marketroids made here is very simple: 256,000 is
the number of pixels on a 640x400 screen.  In HAM-8, each on can be a 
different color.  No way to get into trouble with the FTC making that claim.
-- 
Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Cool Advanced High-End Systems You Can't See Yet)
 "The Crew That Never Rests"  {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh   BIX: hazy
              "I got a pocket full of kryptonite" -Spin Doctors
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: davidme@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au (David Meiklejohn)
Subject: Re: Reply to Amiga Hate
Organization: Qld Dept Primary Industries
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 04:46:51 GMT

In article <1992Oct4.190441.5142@seq.uncwil.edu> drollin@seq.uncwil.edu (David A. Rollins) writes:
>
>I use Amiga, Macintosh, and IBM computers on a daily basis. Each
>has its credits and faults. 
>
>When I go home, however, I use an Amiga. As long as Commodore makes
>Amigas, I will use them at home. I think they are wonderful devices.

Well said - very succinct.  That pretty well sums up my feelings.  I use IBM
compatibles of many types and workstations and minicomputers at work all day,
each of which have some good points.  I would not recommend the use of Amigas
here, except for video work.  But, I don't want anything other than an Amiga
at home.  As you said, they're wonderful to use...


-- 
David Meiklejohn (also known as davidme@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au)
 - Regional support guy for PC's, Unix, and networks thereof.
 - But I'd rather be using an AMIGA!  Wouldn't you?
Find me in Mareeba, Australia (on the pointy bit in the northeast)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls)
Subject: Re: COMMODORE - HERE'S A CLUE
Organization: University of Mississippi, Dept. of Computer Science
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 02:17:19 GMT

In article <1a8a84INN17j@uwm.edu> gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block) writes:
>danaf@bray1a.its.rpi.edu (Frank R. Dana Jr.) writes:
>: Ratios are just plain stupid in most applications. It's STILL cheap, and 
>:as a portion of the entire computer's cost it is inconsequential. You wanna
>:play number games? OK.. If a 68000 A500 costs $400, and a 68020-based A500 
>:would c $500, ISN'T it 125% better????? I'd say it's more than TWICE as good!
>
>Wrong again, unfortunately.  If the cost to build the system raised by
>$100, the system's cost itself would likely raise by $200-300.

Anyone know how much it would really cost to design, develop, produce, and
market the 020 or 030 base A600 that people seem to want?  I'm curious.

The A3000 at $1499 is a great deal, even when compared to the hordes of
clones.  I used to wish that C= would can the A2000 and replace it with
an A3000 with no hard drive, one of the cut-down 030s, no 881/882, and
sell the thing for $1500.  Well, they've met that price with a real A3000
and I wonder how much a cut-down machine could sell for now...

But then again, I'd rather see them get rid of existing stock to make 
room for some sort of low-end AGA machines.

>:We were talking about the 1985 Paula chip... definitely yesteryear's technolo
>
>Not even Atari was dumb enough to try and create a custom chip that
>did 16-bit audio, the job is much better given to a DSP to handle.

What sort of DSP should we expect to see in the Amiga?  I recall hearing 
that they were looking into an AT&T chip, but most rumors lately simply
say that there will be a DSP, but no make or model is mentionned.  

Skip Sauls
skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: davidme@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au (David Meiklejohn)
Subject: Re: Telephone lines
Organization: Qld Dept Primary Industries
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 06:31:59 GMT

In article <10667547.229.717904816@eng2.eng.monash.edu.au> 10667547@eng2.eng.monash.edu.au (JIMMY FANG) writes:
>In article <1992Sep28.121356.10424@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au> davidme@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au (David Meiklejohn) writes:
>>
>>You see, in a digital phone network, voice calls are still band-limited to
>>not much more than analog phone lines.  The idea being that, to allow more
>>channels to be carried between towns and cities through microwave and fibre
>>links, the bandwidth of each channel must be limited.  To allow for as many
>>voice calls as possible, the quality of each remains poor even in a digital
>>network.
>
>Um, I don't think this is the right place,

No, it's not.  datacomms or even sci.electronics would be better, but this is
amiga.advocacy.  If it's ok to discuss American politics and Scandinavian
rivalries here, surely an engineering question is ok.  :-)

>but how on earth are they going 
>to put pay-tv through the fibre optic network?  If it can't really handle 
>sound all that well, how are we going to get decent pictures on our 
>television sets?

It's not that they can't provide more bandwidth, it's that, for voice calls
they choose not to, in order to fit more of them onto a given channel.
Straightforward engineering decision.  If you want, you can order a megabit
digital service which is run over the same phone network as voice - they just
allocate more bandwidth to you, and you pay for it.  And, boy, do you ever
pay for it.  Even if the telephone connections to the average home could handle
pay TV, think of the cost!


-- 
David Meiklejohn (also known as davidme@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au)
 - Regional support guy for PC's, Unix, and networks thereof.
 - But I'd rather be using an AMIGA!  Wouldn't you?
Find me in Mareeba, Australia (on the pointy bit in the northeast)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: danaf@bray1a.its.rpi.edu (Frank R. Dana Jr.)
Subject: Re: Some things...
Reply-To: danaf@rpi.edu
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY.
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 02:47:12 GMT

In article <1710@lysator.liu.se>, boberg@lysator.liu.se (Stefan Boberg) writes:
|> danaf@bray1a.its.rpi.edu (Frank R. Dana Jr.) writes:
|> >In article <1699@lysator.liu.se>, boberg@lysator.liu.se (Stefan Boberg) writes:
|> >|>   Another reason why game and demo programmers `had' to toss the OS and
|> >|> go straight at the hardware was that the earlier Amiga models only had
|> >|> 512K ChipMem and this could get quite tight when you start making more
|> >|> sophisticated games (there are ways around this limit however, which
|> >|> we proved in Project X and Alien Breed, who both play samples from 
|> >|> FastMemory instead of ChipMem). The AGA Amigas will come with 1M/2M 
|> >|> ChipMem minimum, so this is no longer true.
|> 
|> >I'm SUUUUURE.      9)
|> 
|> >Come on! 512k was tight with 640x400x4. 
|> 
|>   Yeah, but how many games you know use this resolution? I would say
|> about 0.0001% of all games. I was talking about GAMES and DEMOS, and
|> reasons why they would "have" to bypass the OS.

True, but they sure as hell used 640x200x4! And that reinforces my point! If 
they were RAM-tight at THAT (even lower...) resolution, imagine 800x600x8!!

|> >NOW, we have 800x600x8, one HELL of an
|> >increase! And the chip RAM has only increased by a factor of four. (Two, 
|> >really, 1 meg CHIP RAM is not sufficient either, even with old (ECS) 
|> >resolutions...)
|> 
|>   I don't think we'll see many games in this resolution either. As for
|> `applications', you're right - 2M chipmem is too little if you want to
|> run a bunch of Super72 screens. If CBM would rewrite layers.library
|> to be able to use FastRAM for the backing store things would be better
|> (is any CBM Software Engineer reading this? :-)).

Probably... but they should have thought of all this long ago. The reason they
didn't include it was probably either a price, design, or time sacrifice - and
it's a shame.

|> --
|> Stefan Boberg - AP & EE student at Linkoping Institute of Technology, Sweden
|>  Author of LhA, ArjA and LhArcA. Co-author of Alien Breed, Project X ...
|>   EMail: boberg@lysator.liu.se, lha@augs.se           FIDO: 2:204/404.7
|>     UUCP:  {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmehq!cbmswe!team17!boberg

-- 
/////////////////////////[[[[[[[[[[]]]]]]]]]]\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
(718)             (212)                        (516)             (518)
=======Amiuser============Frank R. Dana, Jr.============Doc Ami=======     
--------My opinions rarely reflect those of any sane person,----------
	   living, dead, or undead... that's gonna CHANGE.