HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hunter@cse.uta.edu (David Hunter)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: batman/green arrow cb
Date: 5 Oct 92 17:48:31 GMT
Article-I.D.: utagraph.1992Oct5.174831.7996
Organization: Computer Science Engineering at the University of Texas at Arlington

In article <BvM7np.8y2@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> dpearson@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (David Pearson) writes:
>I just picked up the Batman and Green Arrow comic yesterday(sorry, the name 
>temporarily escapes me, and I don't have it with me).  It features the Green 
>Arrow and Batman against Poison Ivy.  In it, there is an implied confrontation
>between big B and PI previously.  When was she introduduced prior to this?  The
>first I ever heard of her was in the Batman animated series.  I guess she could
>have been in Detective comics, I rarely, if ever, pick up that title.
>
>help will be, as always, appreciated.

Actually, PI is a bat-villian of somewhat long standing.  I can't give
you any issue numbers now 'cause I'm at my office, but as I recall the
recent AS episode was loosely based on some stories that appeared in
the mid-1980's, both in Batman and Detective (they were crossing over
into each other in those days).

I really like the animated series, but the time period sucks.  It's on
at 5:00 here and I rarely get home in time to watch it.  (I missed the
recent two-face story, for example.)

David Hunter
hunter@cse.uta.edu
Xref: sparky rec.arts.comics.misc:3377 rec.arts.comics.xbooks:1367
From: aodn307@bongo.cc.utexas.edu (Joshua Henry Geurink)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc,rec.arts.comics.xbooks
Subject: Contest Update
Date: 5 Oct 92 15:47:29 GMT
Article-I.D.: ut-emx.81102
Reply-To: aodn307@bongo.cc.utexas.edu (Joshua Henry Geurink)
Followup-To: rec.arts.comics.misc
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX
Originator: aodn307@bongo.cc.utexas.edu


	*Sinff*  I feel so strange not posting on rac anymore.

	Anyway, just another reminder to those who've not yet voted
to turn in your votes NOW.  There's just three more days until
your votes won't count for diddly, so mail me today.
	The weekend showed tremendous response, knocking the two leaders
into a tight deathlock (arrrrrrgh.  I hate unintentional puns.  Even bad 
ones.), but everyone else still has a chance.
	Just so everyone knows, if I sounded like I was campaigning
for Rogue in xbooks, then you took me all wrong.  I was simply making
fun of both leaders in the competition, and if I sounded like I was
favoring Rogue (at the time two votes or so behind Death), I'm sorry.
Finally, I'll guarantee that I won't post the list until Monday -- sorry
'bout the delay, but I simply cannot get to a terminal until then.

	Until my eyes suffer permanent damage from watching a green screen,
		King ( %-) ) Rat signing off!!!
From: n8943689@henson.cc.wwu.edu (Elric of Melnibone)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: Why no Spidey articles?
Keywords: Spider-Man, DeMatteis, Bagley, Buscema aa
Date: 6 Oct 92 05:43:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: henson.1992Oct6.054326.13254
Organization: Western Washington University

glocke@morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Gordon Locke  ) writes:

>	Am I the only rec.arts.comics.misc reader who reads Spider-Man
>(besides for collecting)?  The only thing I've seen on this newsgroup
>recently that related to the web-slinger was stuff about the new 2099
>title by Peter David (which I think looks very promising).

I just recently got into spider-man (about a year ago),  I wouldn't go
so far as to say he is my favorite, but I think it is one of the better
comics that Marvel is putting out.

>	While Spidey is my favorite comic character (I can see it now --
>endless flames berating me for such net.blasphemy ... heck, it's just a
>subjective opinion!! =^]), I'm disappointed with the way they've been
>handling him and related characters lately (especially Mary Jane).  One
>shining exception to this dismal rule is the _fantastic_,
>eagerly-awaited-more-than-any-other-title, ... Spectacular Spider-Man,
>written by J.M. DeMatteis.  His writing is excellent and the best Spidey
>has seen since ... oooh ... since too long!!  Believe it or not, I also
>like the art by Sal Buscema.  It beats the tar out of the art on
>web-head's "flagship" title, Amazing, IMHO.  I think Michelinie (sp?) 's
>writing has gone downhill in recent months as well.  Maybe he's too busy
>on H.A.R.D. Corps too pay attention to those little dangling plot
>thingees like, say, ... oh, Peter Parker's _PARENTS_ coming back from
>the dead, fercrissakes! <ahem>

>	What about youse guys - what do you think of the current state
>of Spidey?  Are they doing justice to his 30th anniversary?  Will they
>ever get rid of Venom once and for all, and give up bringing him back
>every fifteen issues to drum up fanboy-induced sales?  Will MJ ever be
>characterised as not being just a bimbo who nags Peter?  And _will_
>Harry Osborn reveal Spidey's identity in the upcoming S.S.M. #200??
>(BTW, that is jsut speculation and I haven't heard it from a source or
>anything.)  And .... <drumroll, please> ... will Aunt May ever ...
><gasp> .... God forbid ..... DON'T SAY IT, MAN! .... er, well, die?
>(Please, Marvel Gods, no!  Not at least until another hundred or so
>issues!!)

No Aunt May will never ever ever ever ever die.  As for Venom...he is
getting his own 6 issue limited series.  I think #1's cover is gonna
be $2.95  a bit steep, but you know marvel will sell at least as many
of these as they did of Spider-man 2099 (which isn't as bad as I thought
it was gonna be)

>	That's all.  I'm curious to hear what other readers think of
>this.  Speculation welcome.

>	- Gord, who just figured out how to post (Thanx, cwelsh!)

Pete





-- 
Pete Giffin <n8943689@henson.cc.wwu.edu> <uw-beaver!henson.cc.wwu.edu!n8943689>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: jchokey@leland.Stanford.EDU (James Alexander Chokey)
Subject: Info/Opinions wanted on _Books of Magic_
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 92 04:37:53 GMT


	I've never read any of these, but I know that Neil Gaiman wrote for
them.  I was wondering if people could inform me about the series history.
Is it still being printed?  If not, how many were printed, etc.
	I'd also like people's opinion's on how good they are/were.  I really
like Gaiman's other stuff (esp. Sandman and Black Orchid).  Are these at all
comparable?  

	--  Jim C. <jchokey@leland.stanford.edu>
From: dhenry@plains.NoDak.edu (David Henry)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: $$ Comic Book Creators $$
Date: 30 Sep 92 02:12:43 GMT
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computing Network

>For a solid example - Marvel sells X-Men #1 to The Big Comic Book Store
>for $0.75 each.  TBCBS then sells it for $1.25 each.  Now, TBCBS makes
>$0.50 on each copy.  Marvel makes $0.75 on each copy.  Marvel ships 8
>million copies making $6,000,000, and TBCBS sells, oh, 500 copies, making
>$250....
			[and so on, and so on, and so on!]

The only thing wrong with the above example is that, even if your numbers
were right, Marvel would not be making .75 on each copy, even if they
are selling the issues to TBCBS for that amount. Marvel still has to pay
overhead, salaries, advertising, and all the various bribes they fork over
to put out what they do and not be forclosed by the Ethical Business Bureau
:-). In any case, letting 75 cents be our figure of value, I'd bet that only
about 15 cents or less actually reaches the "Marvel" coffers -- "Marvel"
here being the corporate shadows who actually run the place, not Tom DeFalco
and his various creative staff.

Money money money
Must be funny
In a rich man's world		--ABBA!

-- 
David R. Henry - Rogue Fan Club - CTHULHU in '92! Why vote for LESSER evils?
For Kate is a jealous God, and requires sacrifice./What was your question?--K
"All you of Earth are IDIOTS!"-P9fOS // Thanks... for the memories.--Rogue
dhenry@plains.nodak.edu * ud137927@ndsuvm1.bitnet * ud137927@vm1.nodak.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: visser@convex.com (Lance Visser)
Subject: Re: Image Bashing -- Why???
Organization: CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, Tx., USA
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 02:16:15 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

In <m7bpjc#@lynx.unm.edu> lazlo@triton.unm.edu (Lazlo Nibble) writes:

+>visser@convex.com (Lance Visser) writes:

+>> The premire fan-boy snob is of course the publisher of the comics
+>> journal who these days has a mentality that anything not done by his own
+>> company is "evil" which of course ignores the trash that he himself was
+>> putting on the market during the b&w boom. 

+>Uh-huh.  What "trash" was this?  I ran a comic shop during the B&W boom
+>and I certainly don't remember Fantagraphics buying into any of the sleazy
+>fast-buck trends that were going on at the time. 

	I remember several animal-type books.  One of them was dog-boy and
another had some sort of a rabbit as a character I think.  I would have
to go back and look at an order sheet from the era to be sure about titles, 
but I remember there there were some fairly "not good" books.

	I'm not trying to say that they were by any means the worst 
or near the worst even.  The books were trash in that the content was 
both amaturish and uninteresting.  I doubt that it could have been published
except in the order-anything era of the boom.


+>Gary Groth is a fanboy snob in the same sense that Pauline Kael or David
+>Halliwell are fanboy snobs -- they love their medium (be it comics or
+>film), and they hate how it rarely rises above the level of sloppy lowest-
+>common-denominator garbage.  Granted, Groth isn't as good at it as Kael or
+>Halliewell, but he's all we've got.

	A better analogy would be that he is the Rex Reed of comics, a fan
of the medium who pretends to high standards, but saves his prase for
his friends/lackys/employees and holds them to a different standard than
other creators.   

	What the high-end of the medium needs more than anything is honest
criticism of itself.  If you have reviews for "special" creators (like 
lets say Crumb for example) which are mindlessly worshipful of everything 
done, your not doing reviews....its almost advertising/promotion.
Now if you cross Groth or get on his bad side, your not going to get
the mindlessly worshipful treatment.




	What defines a fanboy/snob for me is an unwillingless on the part
of the particular individual to realize that everything done by their
"favorite" is not a masterwork of high lit.  And that its possible for
their "favorite" to put out bad books.  Now you can make the point that
they are not so bad compared to regular comic books (like batman lets say)
But thats a little bit like holding anything norman Mailer writes as "good"
because its better than the 1045th "executioner" book or a joan collins 
book.




Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: morrow@fnalo.fnal.gov (Inherit the Elmo)
Subject: SANDMAN: Annotations should be coming
Organization: Stephen Jay Gould Fan Club
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 23:38:24 GMT
X-Posted-From: fnalo.fnal.gov
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

	Ah flung a batch of them-thar Annotatated Sandmens onna rac.info this
mornin'.  On account a we had some trouble with the last'un I thrun at y'all,
ah figgered ah'd warn yas to keep a ah peeled fer it.
-- 
"Bring out your dead!  Bring out your dead!"                                   
--Monty Python                                                                 
  
elmo (morrow@physics.rice.edu,morrow@fnal.fnal.gov)
From: klein@frith.egr.msu.edu (Jeffrey Klein)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: Best exit lines?
Date: 1 Oct 92 17:18:09 GMT
Organization: Michigan State University College of Stunt Piloting

In article <Qemkv4S00WB08B3kVb@andrew.cmu.edu> Jeffrey Samuel Finn <jf3y+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>How about SledgeHammers (based on the tv show) last issue:
>
>'Trust me, I know what I'm doing'  :)
>
Next Season - "rec.arts.comics, the Early Years"
-- 
Jeff Klein             | "Happily, Ral doffs his outer clothing for a
Browsing Boy of the LNH|  refreshing dip in one of the dangerous 
klein@frith.egr.msu.edu|  chemical vats." - Ty Templeton
From: dhenry@plains.NoDak.edu (David Henry)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Good Morning, r.a.c.m.!
Date: 30 Sep 92 02:05:40 GMT
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computing Network


It's just kinda sad...

I just checked out of r.a.c. for the last time, and my little newsreader,
that cute 'ol trn I bought for three head of chicken and drilling rights
by my well, what did it say to me but...

End of newsgroup rec.arts.comics.

Now THAT got to me. Thank Laurey for r.a.c.m.!

-- 
David R. Henry - Rogue Fan Club - CTHULHU in '92! Why vote for LESSER evils?
For Kate is a jealous God, and requires sacrifice./What was your question?--K
"All you of Earth are IDIOTS!"-P9fOS // Thanks... for the memories.--Rogue
dhenry@plains.nodak.edu * ud137927@ndsuvm1.bitnet * ud137927@vm1.nodak.edu
From: CXMP@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA (CXMP000)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: RE: that little box in the lower corner
Date: 1 Oct 92 00:55:47 GMT
Organization: McGill University

In article <swindley.717809247@s1.elec.uq.oz.au> swindley@elec.uq.oz.au (Robert Swindley) writes:
>Okay, it's bothered me for ages and I've never found
>anyone who could properly tell me what the significance
 ^^^^^^
>of that little box in the lower corner of (nearly) every
>cover of a comic book. (you know the little one with
>bar-codes if it's a newstand comic or a little picture
>of a superhero if it's direct sales.
>
>I think I've heard it referred to as a 'UPC' box or
>somesuch, so what does "UPC' stand for ????

Well, since it isn't just him, I'll post this: UPC stands for
'Universal Price Code'.  'Universal' because most grocery store
products have one.  'Price' (although 'Product' would work too)
because grocery stores read them to identify the product (making
inventory easier) and, thus, the price.  'Code' because the grocery
store actually reads the lines themselves into the cash register.
Distibuters insist on the UPC symbol because they see it as little
to ask for in exchange for the possibility of having comics sold at
a grocery store.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                                ! Address as above or use
Martin Phipps                   ! LOULA@hep.physics.mcgill.ca or simply
                                ! MUHEP::LOULA if you're on a VAX
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Terminal freeze, duplicate posts, lost posts and email-come-posts,
these are a few of my least favorite things.
From: glocke@morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Gordon Locke  )
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Why no Spidey articles?
Summary: I _like_ Spider-Man! (and the Sandman, too)
Keywords: Spider-Man, DeMatteis, Bagley, Buscema aa
Date: 6 Oct 92 01:43:27 GMT
Organization: Memorial University of Newfoundland


	Am I the only rec.arts.comics.misc reader who reads Spider-Man
(besides for collecting)?  The only thing I've seen on this newsgroup
recently that related to the web-slinger was stuff about the new 2099
title by Peter David (which I think looks very promising).

	While Spidey is my favorite comic character (I can see it now --
endless flames berating me for such net.blasphemy ... heck, it's just a
subjective opinion!! =^]), I'm disappointed with the way they've been
handling him and related characters lately (especially Mary Jane).  One
shining exception to this dismal rule is the _fantastic_,
eagerly-awaited-more-than-any-other-title, ... Spectacular Spider-Man,
written by J.M. DeMatteis.  His writing is excellent and the best Spidey
has seen since ... oooh ... since too long!!  Believe it or not, I also
like the art by Sal Buscema.  It beats the tar out of the art on
web-head's "flagship" title, Amazing, IMHO.  I think Michelinie (sp?) 's
writing has gone downhill in recent months as well.  Maybe he's too busy
on H.A.R.D. Corps too pay attention to those little dangling plot
thingees like, say, ... oh, Peter Parker's _PARENTS_ coming back from
the dead, fercrissakes! <ahem>

	What about youse guys - what do you think of the current state
of Spidey?  Are they doing justice to his 30th anniversary?  Will they
ever get rid of Venom once and for all, and give up bringing him back
every fifteen issues to drum up fanboy-induced sales?  Will MJ ever be
characterised as not being just a bimbo who nags Peter?  And _will_
Harry Osborn reveal Spidey's identity in the upcoming S.S.M. #200??
(BTW, that is jsut speculation and I haven't heard it from a source or
anything.)  And .... <drumroll, please> ... will Aunt May ever ...
<gasp> .... God forbid ..... DON'T SAY IT, MAN! .... er, well, die?
(Please, Marvel Gods, no!  Not at least until another hundred or so
issues!!)

	That's all.  I'm curious to hear what other readers think of
this.  Speculation welcome.

	- Gord, who just figured out how to post (Thanx, cwelsh!)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: lsmith@myria.cs.umn.edu (Lance "Squiddie" Smith)
Subject: Re: Sandman covers and artwork
Organization: The Little Squids of the Poor
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 01:26:24 GMT

In article <1992Sep27.223425.12727@ultb.isc.rit.edu> sta2534@ritvax.isc.rit.edu writes:
>
>Dave McKean does the Sandman covers.  You're right; his artwork,
>especially the combo of painting /photography is terrific.
>Unfortunately, the artwork inside the book rarely measures up.

Well, different squids for different kids, I guess. I really liked 
Dringenberg's work (even if I continue to get his name wrong) and I'm
enjoying what Jill Thompson is currently doing. On reflection, the
art for Game works, although I didn't like Sean's stuff when it first came
out. Of course, Vess and Doran did wonderful work on each their stories.

>Other projects McKean has done are Arkham Asylum with Grant Morrison,
>Violent Cases with Gaiman, and he is also drawing and scripting Cages 
>for Tundra.  He also did one issue of Hellblazer.  You might want to 
>look for them in the back issue bins next time you visit your comics
>store.

Hellblazer #27, also with Gaiman. Good luck finding it. It can be quite 
scarce depending where you look for it. It took me a half a year to
scrounge up a copy, but I was talking with someone who found 3 copies
for 75 cents/each somewhere in Iowa. Just another reason to buy as
many new comics as possible.

Signal to Noise, again with Gaiman, has been collected and is forthcoming.
It is already available in the UK, I think. 

Black Orchid mini-series, still with Gaiman, has been collected and is
available from DC. You can also look for the back issues of this. Recently,
someone was selling a signed (McKean sig) set for in the CBG for $12.

Let me plug Cages again because I really like the series. It definitely
isn't you're average comic book, but we have enough average comics as it
is already. If you like McKean's art, you'll probably like his style of
writing. You shouldn't have a problem finding back issues and Tundra has
all issues for sale if you miss any.
--
     Lance "William Blake?" Smith     |   "Bring me my bat of burning gold!
         (lsmith@cs.umn.edu)          |    Bring me my pine tar of desire!
 "The Cat. He walked by himself, and  |    Bring me my glove! O clouds unfold!
    all places were alike to him."    |    Bring me my fastball of fire!"
From: rdippold@qualcom.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: Milligan Request
Date: 25 Sep 92 17:53:53 GMT
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA

chem8w@jane.uh.edu (Councilman, David A.) writes:
>Hiya.  I've heard in a few posts the names Gaiman, Moore, and Morrison
>(three of my favorite writers, for reasons which may, to most of the
>people posting to this group, seem obvious) linked with the name
>'Milligan'?  Can anyone give me a brief list of this person's work?

Peter Milligan is doing Shade: The Changing (Wo)Man right now.
-- 
You will emerge from the gutter, only to trip and land in the sewer.
From: lsmith@deci.cs.umn.edu (Lance "Squiddie" Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: Sandman: Darkness in Corinth (Small Spoiler)
Date: 6 Oct 92 19:12:08 GMT
Article-I.D.: news2.1992Oct6.191208.22165
Distribution: na
Organization: Cereal Squids of the Poor

In article <1992Oct6.150123.27418@cs.mcgill.ca> fnord@cs.mcgill.ca (Andrew KUCHLING) writes:
>While reading the annotation for the Sandman Special #1, my SO 
>pointed out an omission.  In the description of Orpheus' travels, the
>annotation comments: "The nature of the darkness in Corinth is unknown..."
>(or words to that effect.)   She pointed out that we don't know why the  
>character in _The Doll's House_ is called the Corinthian.  So was he
>the darkness waiting for Orpheus?

One definition of 'corinthian'  (using xwebster) is "a merry profligate
man." I would argue a serial killer could be considered to be self-indulgent
and certainly the Corinthian could be described as extravagant. He also
seemed fairly chipper most of the time.

Interestingly, the xwebster definition of 'profligate' includes the following:

"1: completely given up to dissipation and licentiousness
 2: wildly extravagant: PRODIGAL"

The caps on prodigal are xwebster's, but it's interesting that the missing
Endless has been called the prodigal and also that at least some people
think he may be Dissipation and not Destruction/Devastation.

I'd think this was all word play (and it probably is) except for the 
following...

(Pause for dramatic effect.)

[SPOILER about a future issue to follow. You probably know it if you read
 the various preview material.]


To use a hackeyed expression, he's baaaaaaccccckkkkkkkk!

The Corinthian will be making an appearance in this story line. In fact,
I think he shows up in the next issue. Sounds like fun.  
--
     Lance "William Blake?" Smith     |   "Bring me my bat of burning gold!
         (lsmith@cs.umn.edu)          |    Bring me my pine tar of desire!
 "The Cat. He walked by himself, and  |    Bring me my glove! O clouds unfold!
    all places were alike to him."    |    Bring me my fastball of fire!"
From: gmkoenig@acsu.buffalo.edu (Gerson V Koenig)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: CEREBUS recommendations?
Date: 6 Oct 92 01:29:53 GMT
Organization: UB

My phonebook reccomendations for the uninitiated:

Cerebus...a good place to start.  Certainly entertaining and will help clue
you in on the characters and such. Still, Sim certainly hadn't hit his stride
as an artist.

High Society...again, not a bad to start, it will go a decent way in clueing
you in and it shouldn't be too hard to pick up on much of what you missed in
Cerebus. Solid art throughout.

Church & State I ...Well, it might be a little harder to pick things up here,
but not too hard. C&S as a whole would probably be the best thing to tell
you what to expect and what's going on, unfortunately it might be a little
frustrating having only the one volume. The art and storytelling are uniformly
great. The writing is very good, but IMHO, it's been even better in subsequent
storylines. The overall art takes an upswing with the arrival of Gerhard.

C & S II ...More or less the same things hold as for C & S II, except that it's
sort of silly to start an arc, I mean storyline, in the middle and there's not
as much background info to be gleaned. The writing / storytelling is a little
better (IMHO) than in C & S I.

Jaka's Story...IMHO a truly great book. Unfortunatley, I think some of the 
impact will be lost if you're not familiar with Jaka and Cerebus and the end
of C & S. Otherwise, it's very self-contained and won't help much in explaining
things, except in helping set up the background for Melmoth and M & D. IMHO, 
excellent art and writing.

Melmoth... again, I liked this one a lot, but it's not going to do much to add
to your understanding, other than set the background for M & D a little. 

I know this is probably more info than you wanted, but I got carried away.
In short, any of the first three would be good places to start.

Gerson
gmkoenig@acsu.buffalo.edu