HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: thuang@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Tze-yau Huang)
Subject: Re: Those Typical Taiwanese
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 21:56:37 GMT

In article <16B5D139A5.RAJA@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu> RAJA@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu writes:
>You also forgot to subtract 

1.
>$50 billion for environment cleanup backlog, 

I don't know about the number, but the problem is really serious.

Martial law had discouraged environmental protests.

Governmental demographic conspiracy had encouraged the proliferation
of industrial plants throughout Taiwan's petty fields causing serious
water and soil containmination.

The temporary-government mentality delayd urban transit plannings
combined with the unregulated growth of motor vehicles pollutes the
air.

The government/business duality of the ruling party have complicated
the role of the government as the protector of ordinary citizens'
health and livelihood.

The price of environmental degradation should also include the cost
of the cost of health degradation--medicine and the opportunity
cost of lost production man-hour.


2.
>40% in inflated exchange rate (from 40 : US$1 to today's 24 : US$1), 

I am not sure about this.  This sould be the depreciation of the US
currency which is true relative to many stable economies of the World.

Taiwan actually worked to depreciate her own currency against other
stable economies to lock on the exchange rate with the US.

3.
>about $XX.00 billion of American Foreign Aid, 

The good thing is that those aids were grants.  Unless the gift is
Trojian's Horse, why shouldn't one count gifts into ones own wealth?

4.
>and perhaps $xx.00 billion of intangible cost for your countrymen's lousy 
personality development.  

Well, the illusion of the being rich feeling does make people less
willing to work hard and smartly, but the word "lousy" is not a
interlecture description.

William H.
From: cy_tsai@csd.uwe.ac.uk (CY Tsai)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Taiwan Rich??? Escape in Tax?
Date: 25 Jan 93 11:12:00 GMT
Organization: University of the West of England, Bristol


Hi netter:

Last week I got a news from my friends who talked me about Taiwan tax.
Now Taiwan government only can get 30% tax-money from real tax-money...
For example, someone's income is about NT$80,000...but he will pretending
only has NT$40,000...and then he can pay a lower tax.... Why people can very
easy to prevent pay tax in Taiwan??? Because too many small business companies
in Taiwan? So Government can't know what exactly money they earn???? so Taiwan
government only guess or depend on what businessman said that "how much money
they earn"????

In fact now in the world.... Everybody know that Taiwan is very very rich
country now....... I think it is true..........if Taiwan government can get
all real tax money from Taiwan people....... Taiwan GDP should be more than
US$15,000 or nearly US$20,000......... No kidding???????

I don't believe that Taiwan GDP only US$10,000 ( nearly NT$250,000).... I think
it is too few..........only NT$18,000 per month......... I think it is a joking.
I find that so many people can earn NT$30,000 - NT$60,000 per month..........
so I think that Taiwan GDP should be more than US$15,000..........

OK!! Bye-Bye!!!

Yu.
cy_tsai@uk.ac.uwe.csd
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: luyen@ecf.toronto.edu (LU YEN)
Subject: This is a test
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 04:45:24 GMT

 This is a test
From: joy@engin.umich.edu (chien chung chen)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: A letter from legislator Chu
Date: 25 Jan 1993 21:30:45 GMT
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: minorca.engin.umich.edu

In article <1993Jan25.193444.3523@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> li@sicvax.enet.dec.com (Tom Li) writes:
>At a recent interview, Chu said "after the new election, the legislative Yuan 
>should go back to the normal operation, the fighting should be greatly 
>eliminated". From now on, I think anyone starts fighting should be kick out 
>from the legislative Yuan in the next election.

I do really hope you are right about the elimination of fighting.
But just before long, those Legistators and Assembly Delegates
fought again even without "old thieves" present. DPP Chairman Hsu
also said DPP wouldn't give up the "body language" in Parliaments.
I'm really pessimistic about this situation.

"The first person who starts making dummies should have no sons."
I don't expect Chu to have no sons. But he should be blamed.

-- Chien-Chung Chen
Xref: sparky soc.culture.taiwan:17621 soc.culture.china:35326
From: li@sicvax.enet.dec.com (Tom Li)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: cks airport is great?
Date: 21 Jan 93 14:13:11 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


In article <C16pvw.B05@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>, mrynders@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Maurice Rynders) writes...
>
>Way to go, United! 
>(We see that customer binding tricks still win from patriotism!)

Patriotism? When did you see "buy made in USA" really work? Offer good 
products (or packages) is the way to go.

>(Hint: get a Mileage-Plus credit card from United. Your miles will add
>up even faster.)

Mileage-Plus credit card? $50 annual fee plus 19% interest charge. I would 
rather use my ATT universal card, $0 annual fee plus 14% interest charge
since I am not a regular card user.
From: edwin@cs.tu-berlin.de (Edwin Yeh)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Address of Technical University in Taiwan
Date: 26 Jan 1993 21:10:42 GMT
Organization: Technical University of Berlin, Germany
Distribution: h
NNTP-Posting-Host: athene.cs.tu-berlin.de

Dear Netters,

An acquantaince of mine recently asked me about the address
of major Taiwan Technial Universities that have majors 
in Bauingeniur [ie.Mechanical Engineering]. He was obviously
interested in the doctoral level or postdoctoral level of
study and research. If you will be so kind as to send me
the address of the university to which he can contact directly,
I'd appreciate it. Please send mail directly to me.
Thank you.

The few university I thought might be of his interest:

Ciao Tung (Transporation) University
Chin Hua (Pure Chinese) University
Taiwan Nat'l University

among others. But since I have no mailing address, I couldn't
be of any help to him. Thanks if you can help out.

Edwin
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edwin R. Yeh   | Georgia Tech World Student Fund Scholar '92-'93
c/o Zheng      | Major    : Informatik (CmpE/CS/EE)   
Courbierestr 8 | Research : Medizininformatik (esp. Brain & Biomedical Appl.)
1000 Berlin 30 | Now at   : Technische Universitaet Berlin
West Germany   | Internet : edwin@cs.tu-berlin.de (Tel: +30 217 7594 [8-11am])
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: ptyshih@watnow.uwaterloo.ca (Paul T.Y. Shih(Taku))
Subject: Re: The real story 
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 19:19:49 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.204822.26257@b11.b11.ingr.com> terry@gio_pn.b10.ingr.com writes:
>
>My personal opinions are:
>
>  1. "Two wrong things do not make a right thing"
>
>  2. The realy world/story is:
>
>     A squirrel in Taipei has little chance to see the sun rise for tomorrow.
>     A squirrel in most cities of US has better chance to live until she/he
>     dies naturally.
>
>     It's very easy to test this.(but I don't think anyone will like to waste a
>     life of a squirrel to do this experiment in Taipei/Taichung/Kaoshung ..etc)
>
	
	I don't understand what you want to prove here. You can change
	to subject to :

	A poor black man is more likely not able to see tomorrow's sunrise
	in most large cities in the States than in cities in Taiwan. 

	Does that prove that Taiwan is better for black people to live?

	When you issue examples, should you consider the differences between
	eastern and western countries. Taiwan, as well as Hongkong, Japan,
	... are far smaller than US and Canada in size. If I say that "US
	is killing wild lives with the pollutions it produces everyday, so
	animals lives in Canada lead a far better life than those in US."
	wouldn't it be more appropriate?

>  3. It might has nothing to do with the people or animal-right in these two
>     different countries.
>     BUT, it IS the real world/reality/story so far.
>

	The example I gave above is true too, isn't it?



Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: joy@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Chien-Chung Chen)
Subject: Re: A letter from legislator Chu
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 05:48:06 GMT

In article <1993Jan25.033938.26592@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> li@sicvax.enet.dec.com (Tom Li) writes:
>
>In article <1993Jan24.233351.5325@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>, nlu@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes...
>>
>>Chu has been a comrade of no one.  He's way too unreasonable, IMO.  He broke
>>away from the DPP at the height of his popularity, and now, he couldn't even
>>come in first in his home county.  (But I am digressing.)
>
>No one can hold on the first forever, particurlarly he does not have a strong 
>party support. But I remember there was dispute within DPP, and DPP wanted 
>put party discipline on Chu. Chu declined and broke away from DPP. Personally
>I like this guy, particularly his efforts to "retire" those veteran 
>legislators. Certainly he is not perfect either.

How can you like this guy when you know he is the first person who played
Kongfu in the Legislature Yuan? I remember he also said something like
"Politics is simply a subtle way to cheat." Li Au also criticized Chu for
kicking a policewoman's butt. In my opinion he is not only imperfect,
but disgusting and classless. 

-- Chien-Chung Chen
From: akula@ecst.csuchico.edu (Kuo Han Chang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: 100MHZ 486 in Taiwan?
Date: 25 Jan 93 22:07:29 GMT
Organization: California State University, Chico
NNTP-Posting-Host: cscihp.ecst.csuchico.edu

I saw some interesting stuff in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games which claimed that
Taiwan already developed 100 and 80 MHZ 486dx-2 computers. Can anybody 
confirm on this ?

Kuo
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.china
From: mrynders@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Maurice Rynders)
Subject: Re: woman
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 01:32:29 GMT

In article <6529@balrog.ctron.com> chang@sleepy.ctron.com (Fong-chi Chang) writes:
>
>                         HE WORKS and SHE WORKS
>
>
>HE'S having lunch with the boss:       SHE'S having lunch with the boss:
>He's on his way up.                    They must be having an affair.
>
					Doesn't that mean that she's on
					her way up, too?
					Also: who says her boss is a
					man?

MCR 1/22/93

Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: li@sicvax.enet.dec.com (Tom Li)
Subject: Re: A letter from legislator Chu
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 03:26:26 GMT


In article <1993Jan26.180456.7731@zip.eecs.umich.edu>, joy@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Chien-Chung Chen) writes...
> 
>I think Lee wants to reform but the pressure inside KMT has slowed down
>the pace. Direct president election is one example. Another example may
>be recognizing Mongolia as an independent country. He's achieved some
>reforms like the modification of Constitution, purging old lifetime
>delegates etc.

There are some people use direct president election to serve their 
independence purpose that has made this issue complicated. 

>Rejection of the 2nd land reform is one of the things I feel negative
>about Lee. But I can understand that he did so in order not to irritate
>most of the people who have a piece or pieces of land before the election,
>be it smart or not.

In fact, the 2nd land reform does not aim for all land owners but land 
speculators. There are some people distorted the fact to scare people.
And KMT did not handle this issue well and resulted in Wang's resignation.
From: ykhsu@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (yung-kao.hsu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: A letter from legislator Chu
Date: 26 Jan 93 14:45:19 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <1k1l5cINNc8l@srvr1.engin.umich.edu> joy@engin.umich.edu (chien chung chen) writes:
>In article <1993Jan25.154546.12033@cbfsb.cb.att.com> ykhsu@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (yung-kao.hsu) writes:
>>
>>	Well, you just give me a reason to like him. He may be
>>	ruthless but he is also very honest about what politics
>>	...
>If Chu thinks politics is a subtle way of cheating, as a politician
>himself he must be exercising cheating from time to time. How come
>he is "very honest"? He may be honest just one time for saying that,
>but generally he may be cheating most of the time.

	Well, I hate hypocrites. Have you think about this: if he can get
	votes while telling voters he is cheating them, he must be doing
	something very honestly so that voters don't just listen to his
	words but looking at his acts in judging him. Come to think of it,
	never mind, I was only joking in the first place.

>And what Chu said about politics is not right. He should have said
>"BAD politics is a subtle way to cheat." Instead, he sounds like

	I disagree. "Politics is a subtle way to cheat" is correct.
	I cannot think of any better way to cheat people and get away
	with it other than becoming a politician. Politicians can
	certainly choose not to cheat and serve people honestly.
	Any member in any democracy should realize this and not to be
	cheated of his/er votes.
>...
>the time while pretend to be saints, I'm not sure he gives people
>the right education about democracy.

	I am sure "politics is a subtle way to cheat" should be a
	must-learn lesson in a democracy.

Yung-Kao Hsu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: damon@tfs.com (Damon Liu)
Subject: Abbreviations and terminologies frequently used in this newsgroup
Organization: TRW Financial Systems
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 00:49:13 GMT

Subject: Abbreviations and terminologies frequently used in this
         newsgroup

These days it turns out I have difficulties understanding some
articles posted in this group. People (possibly myself as well),
more than often, use not-easily-understood abbreviations or
terminologies at will regardless whether it is conventionally
acceptable or not.  Sometimes, I have to read the context
multiple times in order to make a reasonable guess (could be a
wrong one).

I suspect I am not alone encountering this problem.  It makes
people feel upset, at least myself, and sometimes might result in
some dangerous and unnecessary misunderstanding.

In order to fully enjoy reading articles from this group, I
propose we should resolve these abbreviations and terminologies
ASAP (As Soon As Possible, sorry). Some other examples are (in
alphabetical order):

BTW, DPP, FAQ, FYI, IMO, KMT, MIT, netter(s), SOB, etc,.....

I volunteer to collect this listing, hopefully with the
assistance from very many knowledgeable people in this newsgroup.

If you can recall some abbreviations or terminologies that you DO
or DO NOT understand, you are very welcome to drop me a personal
E-mail.

Please respond to "damon@tfs.com" within a week (by 2/2/93). I
will summarize and post it on 2/3/93, possibly acknowledge the
contributors as well. And maybe trace, update and re-post it
periodically in case it is necessary.

Thank you very much for your help.


Damon Liu
From: idpt167@tpts1.seed.net.tw (PC_USR)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Software Industry Park (Part 1)
Date: 28 Jan 1993 23:00:50 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

In article <1993Jan20.180027.16367@netcom.com>, jch@netcom.com (Jack Hwang) writes:
> One thing I would like to know is what is the status of Taiwan's
> software industry?  It seems to me that Taiwan is still PC bound and
> focus more on service than R&D.  Is there anyone doing networking and
> real-time embedded systems?

Your description of Taiwan's software industry is correct, generally speaking.
Presently, there are about 400 software firms and 20,000 programmers in Taiwan,
and their focus essentially is on the domestic market.  I figure most of the
software firms are working on Chinese systems and/or servicing business needs.
The jobs you described -- i.e., networking and real-time embedded systems prog-
ramming, that are of my interests, too -- are scattered in hardware-oriented
firms, for example, those companies producing scanners and add-in cards --
LAN cards, sound cards, frame grabbers, etc..  The only "pure" software firm
which develops software products relating to the area mentioned above and comes
to my notice is U-Lead, the developer of PhotoStyler(TM).

> The other thing is that how about the public network status?  One of
> my friend went back to Taiwan last October to survey the software
> market.  He was planning to provide a public Unix service just like
> netcom.  Frustrated by the market there, he came back here.

I am afraid there is no market for UNIX public-access vendors in Taiwan
for the time being, because the companies in Taiwan can be connected to
SEEDNET for free (the only charge is the local telephone fee), no matter
which H/W configuration we have -- UNIX hosts, LANs or PCs are all connect-
able to SEEDNET.  I understand your friend intended to offer public access
to individuals who would like to have their personal accounts.  But we
must consider that Internet is new in Taiwan; people think it is just
another BBS (the BBSs in Taiwan suck, IMO).

> Jack

--
Hsu-Ku "Bruce" Ying                E-Mail: idpt167@tpts1.seed.net.tw
Software Engineer                  TEL: +1-886-2-2452227, ext. 352
ARMAS Computer Corp.               FAX: +1-886-2-2452218
2F #9 Lane 327 Sec. 2 Chung-Shan Road, Chung-Ho City, Taipei, Taiwan
From: zhang@acs.ucalgary.ca (Youping Zhang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Those Typical Taiwanese and War Hero
Date: 27 Jan 93 06:26:48 GMT
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta

I found the article which accusing Taiwanese being showing-off is
offensive and unreasonable. It is perfectly normal for people
who are rich to claim that they are rich. What is wrong about it?
If you want to show-off, work hard to get you wealth and show it
to your opponent. 

I view Taiwan as a pride for Chinese. BTW I am not from Taiwan.
From: gugoson@carson.u.washington.edu (Goson Gu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Chinese Music CD
Date: 27 Jan 93 05:14:04 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
NNTP-Posting-Host: carson.u.washington.edu



I'm posting this message for a friend.  

My friend is currently providing mail order service for chinese music CD.
He asks me to post the following message for him.  Please forward any 
response to his attention.  Thanks.

--------------------------message start here----------------------------
  Hi!

  Have you ever had any experience of not being able to find your lovely
chinese CDs in your local store or even no such a store existing in your town
or they are very expensive?  Do you like to know what's current published 
music CD in Taiwan?  NOW here is your chance to fulfill your need of 
collecting chinese CD.

  We are "New Wave Culture Plaza Inc." located in Santa Clara, California, 
so called Silicon Valley.  The main goal of our services is to serve the 
chinese community with a variety of chinese musical Compact Discs (CDs) through 
mail order service.  Currently we have about 350 CD titles including mandarin, 
taiwanese, and Cantonese music.  If you are interested in and enjoy listening 
chinese music, here is your best chance.  You can get our catalog by sending 
your name, address, and one dollar (to cover postage, handling, and material 
fees) to the following address.  We will include one dollar coupon which can 
be used to buy our products in the future.  

  Thank you for your attention and look forward to hearing from you soon.

    --------------------------------------------
    | O Yes! I'm also interested in Kararoke   |
    |   Laser Disc                             |
    |            			       | 
    | Name:_____________________________       |
    |                                          | 
    | Address:__________________________       |
    |					       |
    |         __________________________       |
    |					       |
    | TO: New Wave Culture Plaza, Inc.	       |
    |     P.O. Box 2801  Dept. IN              |
    |     Santa Clara, CA 95055-2801           |
    |					       |
    --------------------------------------------

    New Wave Culture Plaza, Inc.
    phone : (408)247-5702
    fax   : (408)247-5703


"Our commitment is to serve the whole Chinese community in North America."

P.S. We also plan to have mail order service of Karaoke Laser Disc soon.
     Stay tuned!

--------------------------message end here------------------------------

===============================================================================
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.china
From: cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi)
Subject: Re: Is TI so rossy?
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Lowell Computer Science
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1993 02:19:15 GMT

In article <1993Jan28.212514.8499@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> li@sicvax.enet.dec.com (Tom Li) writes:
>
>In article <C1JKyF.Fqy@ulowell.ulowell.edu>, cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi) writes...
>>
People grow up from young, they normally accept a set of moral believes from
parents, teachers, and other environment. As
they became more and more experienced in a society and consistantly intake
new infomation. To some people, old believes get modified, discarded,
mentained, to other those believes will be carried all their lives, rearely
changed. The former are minority, the later are majority. I can only argument
with the former. I am not able to argument with the later.

Sorry.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: scc53091@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Steve C. Chen!!!)
Subject: Re: Those Typical Taiwanese
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 05:28:35 GMT

chchang@acsu.buffalo.edu (Chun-Shi Chang) writes:

>RAJA@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu writes:
>> 
>>As one of the more honest Taiwanese describes themselves: "A typical Taiwanese
>>has the pocket of the rich(?), but the personality of the poor."  How precise!

>I understand your frustration, RAJA, you can not deny the fact that some
>Taiwanese ae indeed very rich (in terms of cash), so you can only pick on
>their attitude. In English, there is a term to describe your behavior:

>	Jealous. (a.k.a. sour grapes)

>:-)

>ps. Do u mind telling us ur name? Just curious.

Who the heck is this RAJA punk?!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: li@sicvax.enet.dec.com (Tom Li)
Subject: Re: Bad Taiwanese Journalism
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 22:23:58 GMT


In article <16B5ECAB0.RAJA@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu>, RAJA@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu writes...
> 
>   On 12/16/92, the World Journal (pro-Taiwanese Chinese Newpapers in the US)
>headlined "Oversea MAINLAND student killed....." on its first page regarding
>the crime committed by Wayne Lo *. It was soon discovered that Wayne Lo was
>actually from Taiwan.   The World Journal, in the followup report on the
>story appeared on the third page the next day, did not even amention the
>mistake they made in the previous report!  I found it to be rather disgusting!

No, the World Journal's editor offered apologies for misidentifying the killer 
as a mainlander several days after the report. You should go back to check it 
again.

Glad you read a pro-Taiwan newspaper. :-) 

>  Well, just assume Wayne Lo is a mainlander.  After all, those mainlanders

>deserve it all because they are poor.
                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

That is your opinion. See who is prejudiced to mainlanders. No wonder you 
want to emphasize you are "not a mainlander". :-)

Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.china