From: mrogers@nyx.cs.du.edu (Mark Rogers)
Subject: Response to my Update on "ONE" and "IBECC"
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
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Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 92 17:47:11 GMT

In article <1992Jul29.215646.119478@zeus.calpoly.edu> cambler@zeus.calpoly.edu (The Squire, Phish) writes:
 
>You will excuse flame mode for a moment, but what bug crawled up YOUR
>ass and rotted?
	
Hey. Great way to start out a message. Makes me really want to respond
rationally.

>Could this be ANY MORE BIASED that it already is?!
 
Hey again. It sure could have been. If you'd have bothered to read all of
the stuff instead of just chest-pounding about how wonderful the people
at "one" are then just maybe you'd decide differently.

They are big business - straight fact. You think that esoft is out there
to do something for the little guy? or Boardwatch is going to help the 
users? Have you bothered to even read the Boardwatch magazine lately?
What a piece of trash!

Then the editor/publisher of that little rag has the lack of integrety
to publish a list of sessions that makes it look like he has two or three
times as many as he does by lsting them two and three times under different
catagories, like no one will notice. And you call _me_ biased?

Look at that conference and count it up. At least 50% of it is TBBS, 
Mustang and Clark - and you want to say that it's oriented towards anyone
other than the guys who are running big bbses? Then he adds in all those
sessions on how to make money? And you call _me_ biased?

Is that FSUUCP panel your on for a product to sell? Tell me that _I_ am
biased?

I don't demand anything for free. I do demand honesty. 

Maybe your right - I shouldn't have asked an ignorant secretary a question
about modems. Sorry. I won't make a mistake like that again.

At least she could have said something more than "gimme $175 for the answer"
couldn't she?

Geezus! You have some nerve calling _me_ biased?

>... making it into a slam of ONE is not only ignorant, but
>recklessly slanderous!
 
Hey. Sure its recklessly slanderous. Stating a fact is slanderous.
Where did you get your education? 

If Peggy has said something - anything - else other than the "gimme money"
line she used then maybe I would have felt differently. 

>>If you're half as smart as the average CRT you're beginning to see a
>>trend and a snow job.
>
>I think you should have posted this in alt.consipracy along with all
>the illuminati crap.

Hey. Maybe they are both reputable. Then maybe theyre not. You obviously
didn't bother to do all the checking and just believe everyone at face
value. Naive way to look at the world.

Did you even bother to read the chronology? Did you look at how the 
people at your friend "one" just simply told the "ibecc" folks to
give up and go away cause we're big business and we have all the money
and we're gonna tromp all over you? 

Theres a diff between competition and throat-cutting - at least in my
way of thinking. Before you accuse me of bias, maybe you should look
in your mirror. Maybe you should do some more investigating. Maybe you
should do something more than react.

>ONE and IBECC are both reputable organizations, putting on essentially
>the same type of show, but with different targets. Can't you leave it
>at that and make your choice? Must you resort to deceit to try and find
>'facts' that slam one?
 
Hey. I didnt even have to look hard to find _facts_ that slam "one".
They are using their influence and power to tromp all over people who
are actually doing something that is good and honest. You should have
read that article in the denver post about jack rickard-it was enough
to make superman ill. After telling everyone how wonderful he is and how
he is the best there ever was he goes on to tell everyone how great his
convention will be and how much he is doing for the industry with it.

>I attended and spoke at IBECC 91, and have nothing but praise for the
>organizers. I enjoyed the conference quite a bit. This year, ONE asked
>my organization if I could speak there, and they confirmed. I've watched
>the show prepare, and I've spoken directly to Jack Rickard during the
>process, and I can PERSONALLY assure you that there's no 'snow job'
>going on here. I even received a note from IBECC asking me if I might
>drop by for a while. Professionalism on BOTH SIDES.

Hey. That's like saying you spoke to the devil and believed what he had
to say. Where do you live? Not in denver do you? Maybe if you did some
research for yourself and looked at all the paperwork and documents you
would see what I did. Byt you didnt-did you? You just believed.

>What we have here is competition. Plain and simple. And there are those with
>loyalties that make me question their motives. Mr. Rogers, you fall into
>this catagory, I believe. Your article was biased, and used degrading
>logic and phrasology against ONE. If you're trying to present facts, as you
>say, you failed miserably. Witness below:
>
>>"ONE" now has a modest _limit_ of 1000 people, is holding their
>>convention at the Stouffer (a far cry from the Denver Tech Center),
>>and - in their last local ad - claims to be a "TRADE SHOW" (again)
>>for the "SYSOPS". According to their schedule in the July Boardwatch
>>magazine, it's a TBBS and Wildcat show, with a couple of sessions
>>thrown in for those of use who don't run either and who aren't
>>particularly interested in "Running a BBS for Profit"!
>
>The above paragraph is SLANTED, BIASED, and, in reference to the last 
>sentence, FALSE. Tim Pozar, myself, and others are working on a track
>to speak about the Internet. This is a MAJOR part of the conference, and
>has nothing to do with Wildcat and TBBS.

Yes sir! That made me believe you! Right away Sir!
I can count. 8 whole sessions Sir! out of 100 Sir! and how many of those
are for business products and sales products sir!
Yes Sir! A major track sir!

The advertising that your not seeing SIR! is dedicated to saying that
"one" is a trade show for bbs operators SIR!

But you wouldnt know that would you SIR! You didnt read it for yourself
SIR! You just listened to the owner of "one" didnt you SIR!

>>Still, I continued reading the "older" material and got more and
>>more _disgusted_ by these people at "ONE". The nerve of them trying
>>to call themselves the "ONE BBScon"! More like a BBS conJOB!
>
>Again, for something that was proportedly a factual article, there's a lot
>of opinion in here...

Yes SIR! there is a lot of opinion SIR! They are not the one bbscon
SIR! they are merely a second-grossly unfair and unethical-attempt to
take over the bbs business convention SIR!

>>I understand business - all's fair they say - but this is downright
>>business fascism! The people at "ONE" are saying that "ONE" is the
>>"national" organization and "IBECC" is the "local" organization and
>>that they're working together. NOT!
>Where did you see this? Source, please.

Hey. Can you read? I said "The PEOPLE at ONE" are saying that. I had a
friend who talked to your buddy jack and he said exactly that to her.
He told her that "one" and "ibecc" were working together and that if
she bought membership in "one" she could also attend "ibecc".
Not quite a lie. If she paid for admission in "ibecc" she could attend
it too.

>>These big BBS types have _NO ETHICS_ and _NO MORALS_!
>
>The pot calling th kettle black, it seems to me.

Yes SIR! Seems to me that you are covered with a nice dark layer of
carbon as well Sir!
 

>>Or, be cowards and choose neither. This is a vote just as important
>>to bbsing as is choosing a president in November - and at least in
>>this one we have a real choice!
>
>The rally cry of the idiot. Mr. Rogers, why don't YOU get a clue.
>

Hey. And why dont you get that same clue before calling me biased?

You got a problem with people voting against throwing money at people 
who already have more than theyll ever need? Something wrong with 
supporting something you believe in? Or should we all just bow down to 
the big bbs types and run a bbs for profit because they say we should?

>To the readers:
>
>If you have questions about this all, and want FACTS, then call both
>and find out for YOURSELF. Like I said, both organizations are run by
>respected professional people. Mr. Rogers took the information he
>received and ran it through his own personal bias. Please don't blindly
>belive him, but find out for yourself.
>

Hey! A real thought from the guy who starts out with "what crawled up your
ass
?

Yes. Everyone call them and find out where the money goes and what they are
doing for the bbsers and how they plan on helping people and who is gonna 
take the money and do something other than buy a new cadillac with it.

As _I_ said - if you want to go somewhere where theyll tell you how to make
money by running a bbs and how great the products they sell are then go to
the "one" convention. Go to all the sessions by the presidents of the 
software companies - tell me how theyre going to tell the users how to use
the products theyre trying to sell.
 
_Biased?_ _ME?_

>If you insist upon living in a  | cambler@zeus.calpoly.edu | Fubar Systems BBS
>dream, you may be taken as mad. |                          | (805) 54-FUBAR
>  I like my dream.              | Because all you of       | 3/12/24, MNP5, 8N1
>Then you *are* mad!             | Earth are IDIOTS!!       | FSBBS 2/FSUUCP 1.3


Your sig line pretty much expresses your feelings doesnt it?
all of us are IDIOTS!
 
It's a rather putrid day in the neighborhood -
Mark.
Newsgroups: co.general