From: s5223927@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Daniel Lescohier)
Subject: Re: Elspeth (Mercedes Lackey)
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 21:31:34 GMT

In article <1992Apr07.081602.22201@kithrup.COM> 
sef@kithrup.COM (Sean Eric Fagan) writes:

It's possible some of the below could be construed as spoilers.  Read at
your own risk.


>>	I think that is very unlikely.  If Vanyel was reincarnated, I
>>think that the people living near the Forest of Sorrows would have
>>noticed.  
>
>But they have.  To be precise, mages are able to get their spells across
>into Valdemar.  The only defense against mages we've seen is the vrondi, and
>there are ways around them.
>
[...]
>Consider this:  Vanyel is reincarnated, but Stefan is not.  Stefan is left
>behind, to do what he has been doing, namely, trying to muck with the minds
>of the Valdemarians, and, more importantly, prevent mages from entering the
>Forest of Sorrows.  Meanwhile, Vanyel is no longer around, and can no longer
>direct magical attacks against intruders in the Forest, and, worse, cannot
>*protect* Valdemar from magical attacks.
>
>This describes, I think, pretty well what seems to be happening with
>Valdemar right now, doesn't it?  For some reason, it has been determined
>that Valdemar is ready to have Herald-Mages again, so Vanyel is
>reincarnated, and gets ready to become the First Herald-Mage, and start
>teaching the rest of them, as they show up and get Chosen.
>
>It is, admittedly, a pretty shaky theory.  But I couldn't get it out of my
>mind, and I would not be surprised, at all, if it there are some subtle and
>otherwise clues in the next two books indicating that.

	I'm sorry, but I'm just about to blow your theory out of the
water.  First of all, in _Magic's Price_ it is clear that Vanyel was
meant only to protect the NORTHERN BORDER from magical attack, NOT the
Eastern (Hardornian) Border or Southern Border.  And we know that
Vanyel protects the Norther Border by doing all those miraculous
things in the Forest of Sorrows (remember those stories of the bandits
being impaled, etc.)

	Here is the reason why Vanyel could not have been reincarnated
as Elspeth.  In _Arrow's Flight_, Talia and Kris are holed up in the
Forest of Sorrows, but they are watched by and protected by Vanyel
(remember their feelings of being watched and how the tree fell at a
right angle.)  If you remember, Elspeth was alive, an adolescent, in
Haven.  Vanyel could not be guarding the Forest of Sorrows and be
incarnated as Elspeth at the same time (remember that Stefen was born
after Tylendel died.)

	Also, I don't think that Vanyel and Stefen/Tylendl (not to
mention Yfandes) would be seperated again, as you theorized.  The gods
are not that mean.

>>	However, I think that it is pretty likely that Elspeth is a
>>descendent of Vanyel, through Jisa.
>
>Oh, that's almost a given.  There was a comment, I think, in one or two of
>the books that said something about Elspeth being a direct descendent from
>Elspeth Peacemaker, which would pretty much indicate that Jisa was involved
>somewhere, wouldn't it?

	Of course, people at Elspeth's time thought that she was a
direct descendent from Elspeth Peacemaker, because no one knew that
Jisa was not the daughter of Randale, but the daughter of Vanyel.  So,
instead of what people thought as the tree being:

Elspeth -> Randale -> Jisa -> ... -> Selenay -> Elspeth

it was really:

Elspeth -> Randale ///BREAK///
           Vanyel -> Jisa -> ... -> Selenay -> Elspeth

	So, there's no need to think that Elspeth's soul is the same
as Vanyel's soul (and really, are they that much the same?)  She must
of inherited a lion's share of his Mage Gift, however.
-- 
 Daniel Lescohier        | InterNet: s5223927@titan.ucs.umass.edu (until May)
 Univ. of Massachusetts  |---------------------------------------------------
 Amherst, MA (until May) | FidoNet:  1:101/138 (permament address; after May)
  [quote deleted]        |        (Daniel.Lescohier@f138.n101.z1.fidonet.org)