HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,talk.politics.misc,ca.politics
Subject: Re: How Many Homosexuals?
Date: 13 Nov 92 21:54:47 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <13122@optilink.UUCP>, walsh@optilink.UUCP (Mark Walsh) writes:
> From article <1992Nov9.004823.3211@u.washington.edu>, by tzs@carson.u.washington.edu (Tim Smith):
> > One approach to estimating this would be to find some way to calculate it
> > based on other estimated factors.  For example, 9% of men over 65 are
> > either single or divorced.  Assuming that by the time one reaches 65,
> > even gay men who got married before they realized that they were gay
> > are likely to be divorced, this would put an upper limit of 9% on
> > the percentage of gay people over 65.
> 
> Talk about a skewed sample.  You are making the remarkable
> assumption that the percentage of gays over 65 is the same
> as the percentage of those under 65.  A smoking survey that
> I recently read showed that gay men are far more likely to
> smoke cigarettes than straight men.  This factor alone would
> significantly alter the number of gay men who make it to 65.
> There are too many other variables to list.
> -- 
> Mark Walsh (walsh@optilink) -- UUCP: uunet!optilink!walsh

No surprise about the smoking.

    Halliday (1985) identifies migraine headaches, back problems,
    stomach problems, infections (27 per cent of her sample
    had hysterectomies because of infections), anorexia, obesity,
    asthma (especially among male victims of oral sex), epilepsy,
    multiple personality, addictions, severe depression, self-
                          ^^^^^^^^^^
    multilation, and increased acceptance of pain, as long-
    term sequels.  She found that male victims tend to be more
    aggressive or externalizing of their distress, while females
    tend to be more internalizing and self-destructive.[Bagley
    & King, 119; also see Everstine & Everstine, 387]


-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
"Foxes prefer rabbits with short claws." -- Nadja Adolf
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: cfthb@ux1.cts.eiu.edu (Howard Black)
Subject: Re: OCA launches _new_ petition drive
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1992 20:04:42 GMT
Organization: Eastern Illinois University

In article <GANDALF.92Nov5120316@damon.ccs.northeastern.edu> gandalf@dworkin.ccs.northeastern.edu (Thomas M Farrell) writes:

   [Reference to Pat Robertson's dealings with UPI deleted]

>I thought he had SUCCEEDED in buying UPI.

    Nope.  The deal fell through after about a week (I think) of
negotiating.  Good thing.

-- 
   ******************************************************************
     Howard Black                             cfthb@ux1.cts.eiu.edu
     Department of Chemistry                  Eastern Illinois Univ. 
Xref: sparky soc.motss:47221 pnw.motss:78
From: markm@ogicse.cse.ogi.edu (Mark Morrissey)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,pnw.motss
Subject: Portland, Oregon job openings
Date: 12 Nov 92 19:32:13 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.45774
Distribution: na
Organization: Oregon Graduate Institute (formerly OGC), Beaverton, OR

[warning - crossposted]

My group at Intel in Hillsboro, Oregon (10 miles west of Portland) has
several (well, okay, eleven) openings.  We are looking for people who
really know how to program in the Microsoft Windows environment.  If
you also happen to understand PC networking, so much the better.  We
also want people who understand Windows device drivers or user interface
design.  The common requirement is Windows programming, the other bits
are the different spins on each job.

Now, the group is called CAA (Computer Supported Collaboration Applications
Architecture).  My lab is called the CSC Communications Lab.  We are the
guys who would like to find a networking persons, but will settle for a
Windows programming guru as we have lots of networking expertise but
but little in the way of Windows gurus.  Our parent organization is
called the Architecture Development Lab and we are one of two research
oriented software groups in Intel (ADL also has a large hardware
component).  The other group, MSTG, is also located in Oregon and
is also very queer friendly.

So basically, the distinguishments between the various openings are
that we need: a) network folks; b) user interface folks; c) device
driver folks; d) PC audio folks (you mean I forgot to mention that?).
The hard-and-fast requirement is that the candidates be top-notch
Windows programmers.  We can teach the rest in relatively short time.

Yes, we are *very* queer friendly here and have sexual orientation in
the EE statement (and mean it, too).  There is a push for DP benefits
as well (but don't count on it).  I am the founder of the Intel
Lesbian, Gay and Bisexual Employees group (iGLOBE) and am also
the resource for Intel in Northwest GLEN (a gay employee resource
contact list or network.  GLEN == Gay and Lesbian Employees Network).

If you are interested, get me your resume *quick*.  Postscript is fine,
send me email if you want a surface address or a fax number.

Send resumes or further inquiries to me at work: markm@ashland.intel.com.
If we are interested, a telephone screening will be set up.  While we
are in a hurry to get resumes, please understand that we are a large
company and it could be a few weeks before we get back to you (sorry).

end of recruitment speech.

oh yes, it is *not* true that you have to have a PhD to work in
ADL.  Several people in the industry are laboring under this misnomer.
We had *loads* of PhD's, but also *loads* of people without (yours
truly falls in this category - not even a masters ;-)

We don't bite - well, not very often.

--mark
--
Mark Morrissey           One Hatred to rule them all.  One Hatred to find them.
markm@cse.ogi.edu        One Hatred to bring them all and in the darkness bind
                         them.  In the land of Bigotry where the Shadows lie.
From: axtell@cray.com (Maureen Axtell)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Inconsistency re CO boycott
Date: 9 Nov 92 23:07:59 GMT
Distribution: soc
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.


 
>Jack Hamilton writes....
>This sounds a lot like the arguments against boycotting South Africa
>because of its apartheid policies.  That boycott appears to have been
>effective.


Could someone please explain to me what good the SA boycotts have
accomplished (besides the new image SA is trying to push on us)?
Last I heard, discrimination was still practiced on a massive scale,
riots were still happening, innoncent people were still being killed.

This isn't meant to be sacastic.  I'd really like to know what
real change has been made.

-maureen
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: marc@projtech.com (Marc Balcer)
Subject: Coloraddo, boycotts, and thoughts on where to go from here
Organization: Project Technology, Inc., Berkeley, CA
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 18:22:14 GMT

First of all, a little bit of reality:  as much as we would like to believe
it is so, Clinton's victory on Tuesday was much more a reaction to a bad
economy than it was a reaction to the Republican "hate-fest" (a.k.a. the
Republican National Convention) in August.  "Joe-six-pack" has and always will
vote pocketbook issues first.  

So although we may see some substantiative changes coming out of Washington
after January 20 (such as a change in the military's policy toward gays and
lesbians), don't be lulled into a false sense that most people's attitudes
have changed.

Now, if a boycott of "all things Colorado" is going to be one of our tactics
(note that it's only one part of a more comprehensive strategy), we must be
willing to make it stick.  Sometimes that involves tradeoffs.  When companies
lose sales, people may be put out of work.  Are we willing to stand by our 
principles?  

Most importantly, can we find something that focuses attention for Middle
America?  Unfortunately, I don't believe that the fight for the Martin 
Luther King holiday in Arizona really heated up until the NFL pulled the
Super Bowl from Phoenix.  
Do we have something similar that can attract the same attention?

Another thing that can help to focus our efforts is to know who the major
contributors to the Amendment 2 campaign were.  Every state has campaign 
finance disclosure laws that require major contributors to a campaign to be
publicly listed.  Copies of these filings are usually available from the 
state Board of Elections (or similar agency).  Could our friends in 
Colorado do some research to determine who these contributors were and how
best to target them?

-- 
-------- Engineering for Industrial Strength Software --------- 
Marc J. Balcer				   mbalcer@projtech.com
Project Technology                   ...!uunet!projtech!mbalcer
2560 Ninth Street, Suite 214
Berkeley CA 94710                                  510-845-1484
-------- Shlaer-Mellor OOA/RD training and consulting ---------
From: his@the-temple.East.Sun.COM (Howard Solomon - SunExpress Support Engineer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: social democracy
Date: 11 Nov 1992 22:16:35 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Distribution: world
Reply-To: his@the-temple.East.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: the-temple.east.sun.com

Paul posts a wonderful defense of the Canadian system.  One point, however:

"Another one of our "social programs" that tax dollars are used for
is multiculturalism.  Canada has typically not followed the American
perception of the melting pot as the ideal of society.  Rather, we
have been quite successful in the development of the "mosaic" form
of cultural integration."

I would ask how the current "mess" in Quebec falls into this.  Seems 
to me that a melting pot history might have been more helpful.  Canada 
(at least from the outside) is increasingly seen as Canada and Quebec.

Howard

---
========================================================================
Howard I. Solomon			|ELECTION '92
Software Support Engineer, SunExpress	|Say goodnight, George.
his@east.sun.com			|
=========================================================================

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: ai888@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Thomas Flesher)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: What Gay Sex (was Re: How Many Homosexuals?)
Date: 13 Nov 1992 17:03:27 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: ai888@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Thomas Flesher)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc4.ins.cwru.edu



anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:

>  In fact, what *is* gay sex?  What sex act makes a person
>  gay?  Surely not fisting, since straight people do that too.
>  Surely not oral sex, since straight people do that.  Surely
>  not anal sex, since straight people do that.  Surely not
>  kink, since straight people do that too.  Etc.

>  If we say sex between two people of the same gender is gay
>  sex, we've skipped over a lot of gender questions and we've
>  skipped over bisexuals pretty noticeably too, haven't we?
>  We've also skipped the people who identify themselves as gay
>  (or bisexual or even straight) who don't have *any* sex,
>  including people who've *never* had sex.

I'd say you're approaching the issue from the wrong direction. 
Sexuality is better defined by whom you desire than what you do. 
Regardless of whom you have sex with and whether or not you 
actually have sex at all, if you _want_ to have sex with motss, 
you're gay; if you _want_ to have sex with motss and motos, 
you're bisexual; etc.

>  It's all rather difficult to categorize, I think.  It's easy
>  (and practical) for me to assert that *for me*, whatever sex
>  I do is gay sex, because I'm a gay person.  But as I've
>  maintained several times -- over the incredulous objections
>  of some -- the men with whom I've had sex might not be even
>  a little bit gay; they could be a[s] straight as straight can
>  be.  Or, they could be neither gay nor straight.

I suspect from these lines that you might already share my view.
You began by trying to define sexuality by sex acts ("What sex act 
makes a person gay?"), but here you try to define sex acts by 
sexuality ("whatever sex I do is gay sex, because I'm a gay person"). 
So: if you aren't defining yourself as gay on the basis of your 
sexual activity, how are you able to say that you're gay?

Incidentally, when you define sexual preference by desire rather than 
action, it's quite possible for a man to have sex with another man 
and not be gay.

>  The solution, if such it be, seems to me to simply avoid
>  making any such categories at all, since they don't really
>  exist *apart* from the dominant society's sexual hangups.
>  Or do they?

That isn't a solution; it's a denial of the problem. We all make 
distinctions (to call them categories is perhaps dismissive) 
as part of the process of understanding who we are. If society 
has a "hangup" in this regard, it's false simplicity: the notion 
that a person's erotic life is adequately defined by specifying 
the gender(s) involved. Sexuality is much more complex than that.

-----

Tom Flesher  (internet: ai888@cleveland.freenet.edu)

>>> Bigotry is merely cowardice in the face of complexity. <<<
From: jhansen@convex.com (James Hansen)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Colorado products
Date: 6 Nov 92 16:26:04 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

Since Colorado has passed Amendment 2, should we discourage gay
businesses from promoting or using anything from Colorado?  Coors beer
and ski travel packages comes to mind immediately.

-- 
James B. Hansen                                  {sun,uunet}!convex!jhansen
CONVEX Computer Corporation                              jhansen@convex.com
3000 Waterview Parkway, P. O. Box 833851
Richardson, TX 75083-3851                              Phone: (214)497-4802
From: laura@hoptoad.uucp (Laura Creighton)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Moonshine, the election, and you
Date: 8 Nov 92 14:13:47 GMT
Reply-To: laura@hoptoad.UUCP (Laura Creighton)
Organization: Nebula Consultants in San Francisco

Ecverybody wants term limits for the jerks that represent
other people.  Everybody still seems to vote in the jerks
that have been representing them for years.

Term limits ---
Stop me!  Stop me!  Stop me -- please -- before I go vote
in this jerk for another term!


Laura

-- 
    Since Ryan White was buried in April 1990, his grave has been vandalized
    *more than* four times.

    (this news courtesy Phil Paxton ipwp400@indycms.bitnet)

Laura Creighton 
toad@toad.com
hoptoad!laura
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon)
Subject: Re: discrimination at CMU
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 22:01:49 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.
Followup-To: soc.motss

In article <CORWIN+.92Nov11152337@MORPHEUS.CIMDS.RI.CMU.EDU>,
corwin+@CMU.EDU (Scott Safier) wrote:

> ---- end example ----
> 
> Appropriate?

No.  Why resort to a contrived, fictional example where an actual
letter of dismissal already exists?  No reason, other than the
fact that you, yourself, must perceive the inherent weakness in
your case.  The 'real' letter shows an individual being dismissed
for failure to meet the requirements of his chosen course of 
study.  You steadfastly refuse to recognize the duties of an
actor, and insist that dismissal can only have been the result
of discrimination.  You are an apologist for failure, seeking
to blame sinister forces where none exist.

*X*
From: mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Colorado Letter
Date: 6 Nov 92 17:42:33 GMT
Followup-To: soc.motss
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.

In article <thaaang.721024568@cwis>, thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John
Dorrance) wrote:

[several clever comments, but no examples... How drab.  And not 
particularly courageous.  Your 'business letters' must be truly 
dazzling sights to behold, if only we could behold one.  I'm glad
you, at least, are able to keep your head about developments in
Colorado - addressing issues in a rational, business-like manner.
Everyone else is being so emotional about the whole thing.  I'm
sure a few stoic business letters will capture the essence of
homosexual angst.  Particularly -

   Dear Sirs or Madames:  Please cancel my subscription.]

*X*
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: discrimination at CMU
Date: 12 Nov 1992 10:47:33 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <1992Nov12.171049.124281@watson.ibm.com> n
omad@watson.ibm.com (Lee `nomaD` Damon) writes:

> I'm curious to know how many of the people who are supporting the
> removal of these 18 "gay men or fat women" in one year have actually
> gone through a theatre program in college. I have the feeling I'm one
> of the few in this discussion who has.

I never said that I supported the removal of these people.
What I've tried to say, over and over and over, is that
subjective things like a student's appearance, voice,
mannerisms, etc. ARE taken into consideration in acting
programs.  And yes, dear, I have some familiarity with
college theater programs, as I've had tangential connections
to UCLA's program for 15 years (and have lived with one of
its faculty members for the past 10 years), know two graduates 
of CMU's MFA directing program, know someone who used to be
on the faculty at CMU, had a friend who taught acting at Yale.

Arne
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: Bryan J. Blumberg <bjb@macsch.com>
Subject: Re: Boycott official?
X-Xxdate: Tue, 10 Nov 92 00:37:57 GMT
Organization: Systems Integration Branch
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d9
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 00:46:45 GMT

In article <74330@hydra.gatech.EDU> Danny Ingram,
danny.ingram@business.gatech.edu writes:
>There are a lot of voices talking about a boycott of Colorado.  Are
there any
>GLB organizations who have officially called for a boycott?  I produced
an 
>article for a local GLB publication about the proposed boycott, but now
I'm
>getting my ass chewed by my editor because it seems no organizations
have 
>called for an official boycott.  How can there be a boycott if no one
calls 
>for one?  I really need some help on this one, particularly since my
deadline 
>was yesterday!  If anyone knows of even one GLB group who has officially 
>called for a boycott please let me know asap.
>
>                                     Thanks, 
>                                    Danny Ingram

According to an article on Page One of Today's Los Angeles Times,
Tuesday, November 10, 1992:

[This is an extract of only a few paragraphs from the article.]

As of Monday, groups including the Gay and Lesbian Victory Fund
of Washington and the American Assn. of Physicians for Human Rights,
a San Francisco-based advocacy group for lesbian and gay physicians
in the United States and Canada canceled [sic] yearlong plans to hold
annual conventions in Denver in 1993.

"We cannot in good conscience bring our members and our dollars
to a state that would so willingly deny basic civil rights to
gay and lesbian people," said Larry Prater an Oklahoma psychiatrist and
president of the physicians association.

Joy Burns, chairwoman-elect of the Denver Metro Convention and
Visitors Bureau, said Monday she had received numerous calls over
the past week from groups "saying they will not hold conventions
in Denver."

"This is a very serious concern to us," she said.  "We think the
issue is especially serious in terms of the image it gives of this
state."

She said she could not estimate the amount of convention business
the state might lose over reaction to Amendment 2.

In Los Angeles, a spokesman for The Advocate, a biweekly magazine
with a paid circulation of 120,000 said its Nov. 17 issue will
include a letter from the editor calling for a general boycott
against Colorado businesses.

========================================
Bryan  J. Blumberg, The MacNeal-Schwendler Corporation
815 Colorado Boulevard, Los Angeles, California  90041-1777
(213) 259-4914, B_BLUMBERG@MACSCH.COM
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: The SF Chronicle ( was: Gay Presidents)
From: hsu@walnut.sfsu.edu (William Hsu)
Date: 11 Nov 92 15:04:46 PST
Reply-To: hsu@walnut.sfsu.edu
Distribution: world

In article <BxKACz.DKz@queernet.org>  writes:
> 
> Also in that issue, a rather large story about the Mayor's plan to 
> clean up the streets in SF.  Included in the effort is a new bumper
> sticker, available in English, Spanish, and Chinese, that asks:
> "Have YOU picked up a piece of trash today?"
> 
> Hmmm....count me in!

As the people doing the picking up, or the trash? :-)

Bill, who generally keeps an eye open for pieces of trash needing to
be picked up
From: guest@veronica.cs.wisc.edu (Guest account)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: MORE colorado addresses + phone numbers
Summary: Dept of Econ Development and Colorado Tourism Board addresses
Keywords: CO-2
Date: 5 Nov 92 16:21:15 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.guest.720980475
Reply-To: timdude@saavik.cs.wisc.edu
Organization: U of Wisconsin Madison - Computer Sciences


Here are a couple more appropriate addresses.  My letter to the two
that I posted before already went out in this morning's mail.  Dammit,
I'm *furious* about the passage of that amendment.

Colorado Department of Economic Development
Office of Business Development
Governor's Office
1625 Broadway Suite 1710
Denver, CO  80202
voice 303-892-3840

Colorado Tourism Board
Department of Local Affairs
1625 Broadway Rm 1700
Denver, CO  80202
voice 303-592-5410

-Tim Petlock
timdude@saavik.cs.wisc.edu
All you need is a three-dollar-bill and a dream.
From: aberson@enh.nist.gov
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Colorado Amendment 2: The First Fatality
Date: 13 Nov 92 18:15:30 GMT
Organization: NIST

From Jeffrey_K._Stichler.LAX1A@Xerox.com on the noglstp mailing list.  
Angela Dire is the reporter who wrote the article about the suicide in 
Colorado resulting from the passage of Amendment #2.  The Gazette is 
the Colorado Springs newspaper in which the article appeared.  An 800
phone number to the Gazette is at the end.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When I called the Gazette, I was able to speak directly to Angela Dire - - what
a sweetheart!!  She was so thankful for the call...seems she's taking quite a
lashing from Coloradians for Family Values, all loosely translating to "How
DARE you put something about homosexuals in print!"  I explained that I saw the
article on an electronic distribution list.  She asked me to read her the first
line:  apparently, the version that went out on the wire was changed a little
from her original version.  (The one Jeff shared with us this morning was her
original version.)  She didn't ask for any specifics about the DL, but did ask
if there had been any other communications regarding Amendment 2, and if so,
could I fax them to her.  What this says to me is that Angela is not going to
let her 'spanking' from the Right stop her from pursuing the issue.  Does
anyone see a reason why we shouldn't fax them to her?  On a related issue, has
anyone saved them all?  I haven't, so if someone else could fax them to her,
she'd sure appreciate it.  Her fax number is 719/636-0202.

She also told me to feel free to give out the 800 number Margaret sent a few
minutes ago:  800 / 800-4899.

I think it's important that we support this lady who is taking such an
unpopular stand against a group of people who happily voted to take away our
human rights.

	----- End Forwarded Messages -----

Sim Aberson   Ft. Lauderdale, FL   aberson%3328.span@sdsc.edu

Hate, bigotry, and discrimination are not family values, even in
Colorado and Tampa.

Sim Aberson   Ft. Lauderdale, FL   aberson%3328.span@sdsc.edu

Hate, bigotry, and discrimination are not family values, even in
Colorado and Tampa.