HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: n9110536@henson.cc.wwu.edu (W. Douglas West)
Subject: Re: period fighting styles
Organization: Western Washington University
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 17:02:24 GMT

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Narrow-focus events
Distribution:world 
Organization: Western Washington University

In article <1993Jan21.001145.20318@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> 
 tip@lead.aichem.arizona.edu (Tom Perigrin) writes:
>In article <1993Jan20.213429.650@epas.toronto.edu> nusbache@epas.utoronto.ca
> (Aryk Nusbacher) writes:
>>
>>Example of a narrow-focus non-SCA event:
>>
>>12 February, 1490, the Tabard Inn, Southwark, Surrey, England.  Supper-time.
>>
>>Just so you know what the narrow end of the scale looks like.
>
>The front or the back room?
 
                         ________
                        |o      o|
                        |        |
                        |        |
                         \      /
                          \    /
   the narrow end------->  \  /
                            \/
 
(St.) George Slade the Dragoon
From: Godfrey de Shipbrook <jlee@smylex.UUCP>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Awarding Awards or Ooh, Ah, Oh
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 93 10:36:36 EST
Organization: Shipbrook Software  (Tampa, FL)

Greetings from Godfrey!

Ellisif writes, in response to something I said:
> 
>>(This isn't just a case of sour grapes from a scribe; I haven't been
>>called upon to make any court scrolls.  I'd just like to SEE the scrolls
>>as they're being awarded.)
> 
> Have you suggested this to the herald before court, or more generally to
> the kingdom herald?  The folks in charge may simply have not thought of
> it.

The Signet Clerk supposedly mentioned it several times to the King.

Perhaps in the next reign, things will change; the Crown Princess is 
herself a scribe.  If not, I think I shall try to gain their ears for
a brief moment...


> I was going to email this, but the general theme applies more widely:
> don't assume the people running things have thought of every detail that
> would make the court/tourney/feast/newsletter/whatever more interesting.
> Very few people will get huffy at a sincere, polite suggestion -- though
> courtesy demands that you not approach the herald as the procession is
> forming, or the cook right before the first remove, and so forth.  Most
> people, in my experience, will welcome the input; it's very rare.

Good advice; I thank you for it.

+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Net:  Jeff Lee / jlee@smylex.uucp / jlee%smylex.uucp@tscs.tscs.com     |
| SCA:  Lord Godfrey de Shipbrook / Wyvernwood, Trimaris                 |
|       Per pale azure and argent, a clarion counterchanged or and gules |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
    "The only thing that helps me maintain my slender grip on reality
    is the friendship I share with my collection of singing potatoes."
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: nusbache@epas.utoronto.ca (Aryk Nusbacher)
Subject: Re: robes/cloaks
Organization: Havenhurst College, School of the Beautiful People
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 18:50:38 GMT

In article <108160@bu.edu> uni@acs.bu.edu (Shaen Bernhardt) writes:

>I'm looking for a source for full length ritual robes with those
>long floppy sleeves and a long draping hood.  Black would be nice.

>I asked on alt.pagan, and it was suggested that I look here.

>A heavy matte fabric would be the best, but I'm not sure how picky I can
>afford to be.

How about terry cloth?  Abbey Robes in Toronto makes monks' robes in
mega-thick terry cloth in a bunch of colours.  Great for staying warm
when getting out of the shower on winter mornings!

Abbey Robes
595 Bay Street
Toronto, Ontario
CANADA

Sorry, I don't know the postal code.

Aryk Nusbacher
From: cavalama@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Randall K. Spicher)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: TLC to broadcast 6-hour history marathon
Date: 22 Jan 93 18:17:47 GMT
Organization: CS Dept, Ball St U, Muncie, Indiana
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

doconnor@sedona.intel.com (Dennis O'Connor) writes:
: 
: The Learning Channel (I think : I could be misremebering and
: it might actually be their parent, The Discovery Channel) is
: going to broadcast six (6) hours of "The World : a Television History"
: this Friday, I think starting at 6PM EST. I think each hour
: examines a different Great Civilization. I know one hour
: is on the Mongols, and I saw a very favorable review of
: that particular hour in a book-reviews-for-libraries magazine.
: 
: "The World : a Television History" is, I'm told, a very good series.
: 
: I get Discover and TLC by satellite, so I can't say what hour
: your local cable company will broadcast it. I'm not even sure
: what time the satellite downlink is, but it's definitely
: the evening (EST) of Friday, Jan. 22.
: 
: [ If your cable co. doesn't get TLC, write them ! It's one of my four
:   favorite channels ( along with AMC, A&E, and Discovery ). They are
:   also running a new series called "Archeology" that's excellent, and
:   they're rerunning "Connections". It's on C4-2 (I think) for dish 
:   owners, ITC (unscrambled) currently. ]
: 
: 
: 
: --
: Dennis O'Connor			doconnor@sedona.intel.com


PBS had a similar thing a few months back called "Legacy", again
one hour per ancient civilization, which included (memory alert):
	Ancient Sumeria (Ur, Uruk, etc)
	Ancient China
	Ancient India
	Ancient Egypt
	Ancint Aztec (maybe Mayan and/or Inca as well, cant remember for sure)
	Something else. (Rome? Tie in to modern day?)

(I taped the whole thing, so I suppose I could look it up...)

Cavalamar
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: nusbache@epas.utoronto.ca (Aryk Nusbacher)
Subject: Re: persona help
Organization: University of Toronto - Office of the Provost
Distribution: rec
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 00:53:32 GMT

Mr. Gleason asked whether Howard was a pre-1600 name.

There was an obscure East Anglian family called Howard which produced
two English queens (Anne Boleyn and Catherine Howard), and which
eventually managed to marry into respectability by joining the
Fitzalan earls of Norfolk, now represented by old Fitzalan-Howard, the
current Duke of Norfolk and Earl Marshal of England.

Aryk Nusbacher
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: ae766@yfn.ysu.edu (David Sanders)
Subject: Re: Informal survey results
Organization: Youngstown State/Youngstown Free-Net
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 19:23:57 GMT


Greetings to all assembled, from Vajk!

Loki has posted the results of his informal survey, and while
I accept that the results are probably not an accurate reflection
of the SCA as a whole, I am intrigued by the series of figures
from the 13th back to the 10th century.

The figures seem to be roughly even from the 10th - 16th centuries
except for the 13th and 11th.

Is this radical departure due to the methodology, or is it
the resutl of bias against those particular centuries?  I would
have expected the 11th century to be considerably higher, with
1066 and all that!

For statistical purposes I believe, from a quick glance, that
this sample would be labeled a LARGE sample, but that is a 
technical definition only.

Vajk
From: bloodthorn@sloth.equinox.gen.nz (Jennifer Geard)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: awarding awards 
Distribution: world
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 93 11:33:24 GMT
Organization: Lethargy Inc.

Edward (glorious maintainer of sloth-node) wrote:

  > I have a local "award" which I neither fit the criteria for nor 
  > deserve (two different things). However being caught by surprise 
  > doesn't exactly give one a chance to think about the matter. Further, 
  > refusing on the spot or handing it back later is not exactly conducive 
  > to widespread good feelings.

It's a messy situation.  As Edward knows, I also received the "award" at that 
time.  I remonstrated with the Seneschal in the kitchen afterwards (I hadn't 
done the work in the project which was being rewarded, and the person who 
had got lost in the batch) and was told that I deserved it for other things 
and should keep it.  I did until I realised how incredibly bitter I felt 
about the whole thing, and finally returned it at a Council Meeting, 
explaining that I felt that keeping the award detracted from the honour which 
should rightfully go to the person who *had* done the work.  Felt much better.  
Still irked about it all, though.  The moral is, IMHO, that those giving such 
honours should do a little homework before handing them out.  The bad feeling 
that goes with inappropriate awards is decidedly unpleasant and could so 
easily have been avoided.

Pagan le Chaunster
________________________________________________________________________
Jennifer Geard                         bloodthorn@sloth.equinox.gen.nz
Christchurch, New Zealand
From: haslock@rust.zso.dec.com (Nigel Haslock)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Awarding Awards or Ooh, Ah, Oh
Date: 28 Jan 1993 00:06:28 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation - DECwest Engineering
NNTP-Posting-Host: rust.zso.dec.com


To tie into another thread, if we could live without the surprise element,
we could do a much better job of permitting the populace to examine the
output of the scribes.

Set up an art show at the event. Put all of the scrolls to be awarded on
display with notes from the scribes and illuminators describing the hows and
whys. The heralds can claim the scrolls as needed before court.

There would be little point in displaying mass produced scrolls, but the works
of art could be seen and examined at close range by interested members of the
populace. My biggest gripe about the Ooh Ah Oh is that I can't get close enough
to the scroll to see if I think it deserves such lauds. Lots of bright colors
and gold leaf do not make a praiseworthy scroll (IMHO).

The other alternative is for the crown to simply not hand out the scroll. A
habit of retaining the award scrolls for a few months while they are on display
in some travelling portfolio would let people see the scroll while removing
a non-period feature from court. It also gives the recipient time to arrange
for an appropriate device to take the scroll home in. {I will suggest this
to Her Magesty next time I speak with her}.

	Fiacha
	Aquaterra, AnTir
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: The name Bloodaxe, fingers (was Re: Dennis v Terry, Rialto Rhinos, Oral
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1993 12:29:32

 GdS> I must have missed the original thread.  I do have 
 GdS> a source for the name
 GdS> `Blood-axe', however, so I might as well post it.  :-)
 Yup.  You missed the original thread, all right. ;>  What we were 
 "discussing" (except that implies more than I was contributing) was 
 not whether or not Bloodaxe is a period name, but just why good ol'
 Eric *got* that particular byname in the first place.  
    Gwenllian Cwmystwyth

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman)
Subject: Re: Heraldic Questions...
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 20:19:36 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

Greetings from Arval!  Rhys wrote:

> Have the CoA continue to accept arms under the current rules for design &
> conflict with no extraordinary documentation.  HOWEVER, if someone wishes
> to register a different style of heraldry (Hungarian, Japanese, Arabic,
> ...), they must document it throughly, and, possibly, register it to a
> name of the appropriate culture.

This is essentially identical to a proposal that has been put to the
College and to the Board a number of time over the past three years by
myself and others, except that most of our proposals would not tie armorial
style to the registered name.  Names and armory have no real connection,
aside from the fact that the same SCA bureaucracy deals with them.  The SCA
has no other requirement for consistency between separate pieces of
re-creation used by an individual - you can wear a 14th century Italian
doublet and eat off 16th century English plates - and there is no
particular reason why names and armory should be treated different from
other arts (except perhaps that the College of Arms is in the position to
do so).

===========================================================================
Arval Benicoeur                                       mittle@watson.ibm.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: nusbache@epas.utoronto.ca (Aryk Nusbacher)
Subject: Re: Tattoos
Organization: University of Toronto - Office of the Provost
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 18:59:17 GMT


Talmudic law prohibits tatoos, so it's a good bet that if Jews had
them in the Middle Ages they didn't tell anybody.

As to goyim?  Who knows?

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: nusbache@epas.utoronto.ca (Aryk Nusbacher)
Subject: Re: What is this Group?
Organization: University of Toronto - Office of the Provost
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 18:42:34 GMT

In article <atterlep.727908079@vela> atterlep@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Cardinal Ximenez) writes:

>  Actually, this isn't strictly true.  Wulfgar Silverbaer did, in fact, form
>a household on the Rialto but nothing really came of it...there isn't all that
>much for a Rialto household to do.

Nonsense!  It could establish rankings, formalised relationships,
special badges for each rank and formalised relationship (e.g. Friend
of a First-Rank Member of the Rialto Household, or Cousin of the
Household), decide whom to include and whom to exclude, have a hidden
agenda, pack lunches for events ...  Everything!

Aryk
From: sherman@trln.lib.unc.EDU ("Dennis R. Sherman")
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: re: composite baronies
Date: 27 Jan 93 13:04:12 GMT
Organization: The Internet

Greetings to the Rialto from Robyyan.

Bertram asks about composite baronies:

>  For the composite sort of barony, are the old shires that
>  joined to form the barony usually maintained as cantons
>  or are they disbanded and subsumed into a single baronial
>  structure?

It happened in Windmaster's Hill (yes, we are a composite barony using 
your definition) long before I got here, so I don't know how it formed 
originally.  However, as of now, we have six cantons, each in separate 
towns, that mostly function autonomously.  From one end of the barony 
to the other is probably 125 miles, maybe 2 1/2 hours drive 
(interstates don't run conveniently).  Trying to get the individual 
cantons to interact with each other regularly is one of our (Fern and 
mine) constant efforts.  Each canton has a distinct character of its 
own.  One is on a military base, three are associated with 
universities, more or less, the other 2 are working people.  There are 
times I'm amazed the barony works as well as it does!

*--------------------------------------------------------------------*
* Robyyan Torr d'Elandris    Baron, Windmaster's Hill       Atlantia *
*--------------------------------------------------------------------*
* Dennis R. Sherman  	         Triangle Research Libraries Network *
* dennis_sherman@unc.edu       Univ. of North Carolina - Chapel Hill *
*--------------------------------------------------------------------*
From: RIALLC@ecc7.ateng.az.honeywell.COM
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Dennis O'Connor's Flamepost
Date: 21 Jan 93 15:54:54 GMT
Organization: The Internet

Perhaps if this person was no longer responded to, he would cease to find 
pleasure in broadcasting abusive posts upon the net.

Bartholomew
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Subject: Re: Medieval Village, Medieval Summer Camp etc...
Reply-To: whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 22:40:50 GMT

In article <1993Jan25.112235.1@acad2.alaska.edu> asgds@acad2.alaska.edu writes:
>	In his post Cariadoc has basically asked about the feasability of
>setting up a Midieval village along the lines of Willamsburg.
>
>	If such an SCA Village were to be created could the SCA Inc. help with
>the seed money?  

The SCA, Inc. doesn't have that kind of capital to invest.  The
Society actually runs a pretty lean budget--due in part, I suspect, to
the membership howling every time membership rates go up.  (What was
that discussion about how onerous $25 per year is...?)

>I would think that establishing such a village would go a 
>long way towards the aim of the SCA (...non-profit EDUCATIONAL...).  

Certainly would.

>Any 
>profit the village made could be spent on Village up-keep and on sepparate
>annexes; a Viking settlement, an Elizabethan village, (place persona 
>environment hear)....

This assumes that one could raise enough over costs to *have* a
profit.

>	On a related track I have heard rumors of a Ren Faire in California
>that takes place in a permanent village....?

I haven't been over there is a number of years.  Part of the problem
has been that the Ren Faire *hasn't* been run very well as a business.
Plus, while $16 or $17 for a day's entertainment (plus food...) isn't
all that bad, when you take a family of 4 it makes a real dent in the
budget.

Probably the *real* way to build such a village is with corporate
sponsorship or grant moeny from some foundation or other.  Such
organizations will *not* put up the money to buy land, though.  (The
land fund checked into that...)

	--Hal

        Hal Ravn, West Kingdom
        Wilson H. Heydt, Jr.,  Albany, CA 94706,  510/524-8321 (home)

Nothing in this missive constitutes an act or opinion of the Lord High
Constable of the Kingdom of the West unless otherwise explicitly stated.
-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |            You!
510-823-5447                 |    Out of the Gene Pool!
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: ae766@yfn.ysu.edu (David Sanders)
Subject: Re: Province jurisdictions || "Persona Packs"
Organization: Youngstown State/Youngstown Free-Net
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 17:20:47 GMT


Greetings to all, especially Iain Odlin, from Vajk!

Iain writes:

   >  Given a Province (Shire, whatever you want) that covers the 
   >  better part of a (mundane) State, and given that they aren't
   >  too keen on having much of anyone besides heavy-fighters (A&S
   >  be damned, for example), can one set up another Shire or something
   >  within the same geographical area, or are we SOL?

SOL !!!!

As much as I would like to see such an arrangement permitted (and
I have posted such sentiments on several occasions) ,  my talks
with Hilary at last Pennsic satisfied me as to the "official"
stand on this.

Also, over the years, there has been a desire among the powers
that be to prevent in-fighting in a region.  In the Middle,
no group can be formed if it is felt that the new group wishes
to form because of political wrangling with the current 
officially recognized unit;  at least this is my understanding of
the law.

Personally, I would LIKE to see this allowed, because minority
interests too often get lost in a group which is overwhelmingly
oriented in one direction or another.  On the other hand, if
any group "officially" prevents a minority from doing their
thing at an official event then there is a problem.  That is, 
if you are in a group which is overwhelmingly fighters, and
your group holds an event at which the autocrat or seneschal
forbids legitimate A&S activity without good and solid reason,
then that is certainly something to be grought to the 
attention of your kingdom seneschal.  Or the A&S officer at
kingdom level, or both.
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Illegal targets (was 
From: bloodthorn@sloth.equinox.gen.nz (Jennifer Geard)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 06:36:37 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Lethargy Inc.

 
  > Few seem to forget the don't aim for the groin rule, even in the heat of big
  > melees.

Good my lord, I'm slightly embarrassed to ask -- what is the nature of this 
"don't aim for the groin" rule?  Is it something other kingdoms include in 
their rules?  Is it one of those things a new fighter is told by the older 
fighters upon induction into fighterhood?  I ask because I've read all the 
stuff-about-fighting I could find (mostly rules, unfortunately, which aren't 
very helpful as "how-to" guidelines) without encountering such a concept.  
Fighting here has developed in isolation form other SCA fighting -- is this 
part of the continuity of tradition that we've missed out on?

 
  > 2)  I thought that everybody playing at non-S&S styles was required to have
  > something better than hockey gloves, specifically, a continuous metal or
  > hard leather plate accross the fingers.  Any marshals with a comment on
  > the use of hockey gloves alone for finger protection?

The Caid and Society rules explicitly allow them, although Caid strongly 
recommends that they be reinforced with additional plates or padding for use 
with polearms.  But let me ask a deeper question.  I've seen more than one 
reference in my net conversations to marshals bouncing armour which is 
technically, though minimally, legal.  This seems particularly to apply to 
hockey gloves.  May I pose some questions for discussion, because enquiring 
minds a long way from anywhere want to know:

    What are the SCA armour and weapons requirements designed to do?  
    Stop people getting killed?  Stop the SCA Inc from getting sued?  
    Prevent permanent injury?  Something else?

    What is the purpose of armour and weapons inspection?  To check that 
    the rules are being followed so the SCA Inc is safer in lawsuits?  
    To check that the rules are being followed for other reasons?  To 
    try to ensure that the fighters are (relatively) "safe"? 

    General comments on "Safe" and "Legal", which sometimes seem to be 
    very different things. 
 
    Is it appropriate for a marshal to disallow a fighter on the 
    grounds that their armour, although legal, is not in the marshal's 
    opinion safe?  What about the case where the fighter weighs up the 
    possiblity of broken fingers vs the freedom of movement of lighter 
    hand protection and decides it's worth the risk?  

The other big question is about respect for the rules, something that isn't 
going to happen so long as we see videos of Crown Tourney which show illegal 
armour in use.  "We know *they* don't use the rules, so why should *we*?"  
Any pertinent comments? 

Pagan le Chaunster
________________________________________________________________________ 
Jennifer Geard                         bloodthorn@sloth.equinox.gen.nz 
Christchurch, New Zealand
From: hairy@sloth.equinox.gen.nz (Phil Anderson)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: awarding awards 
Distribution: world
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 10:03:10 GMT
Organization: Lethargy Inc.


Hal writes, re surprise awards:

  > her on the spot.  It looked a bit dicey there for a minute, but that's
  > a tough place to say no....

Which is precisely the problem I have with surprise awards. 

I have a local "award" which I neither fit the criteria for nor 
deserve (two different things). However being caught by surprise 
doesn't exactly give one a chance to think about the matter. Further, 
refusing on the spot or handing it back later is not exactly conducive 
to widespread good feelings.

Real-world knighthoods and such are not, in general, done by surprise, 
for very good reasons.

Edward the Discalceate
Southron Gaard, Caid

 ----------------------------------------------
 Phil Anderson  ***  hairy@sloth.equinox.gen.nz
 ----------------------------------------------
       "No-one is equal to anyone else!"
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca