From: mon@cray.com (Muriel Nelson)
Subject: Re: The Voices of Women
Date: 5 Apr 92 15:25:06 CDT

In article <1992Apr4.145454.25907@cs.dal.ca> franklin@ug.cs.dal.ca (Steve Franklin) writes:
>In <1992Apr3.111600.12898@hemlock.cray.com> mon@cray.com (Muriel Nelson) writes:

>>Did you read all the article, Steve? The chances of placement for
>>a minority child are not good. Even when the chances of placement
>>are excellent, many women agonize over the fate of a child given
>>up for adoption _for the rest of their lives_, sometimes to the
>>point of affecting her mental health. 
>
>  In my mind that is another flaw of society. Maybe _you_ should place
>more effort on eradicating discrimination and suppressed state education
                                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
What's that?
And how do you know that I haven't made great efforts in my life
towards eradicating discrimination? Does that mean that the poor
mother in the story should have ignored the probabilities, because
they were influenced by factors that should not exist in an ideal
world? We were talking about a real woman, who made a decision
based on the harsh realities of a real world. 

>and less on the cop-out alternative of abortion>?
>
You may assert that abortion is a cop-out all you like, Steve.
I will continue to exert all necessary efforts towards ensuring
that the option remans open. 

[deletions]
>
>>80 years guaranteed happiness with each live birth? I see the Clue
>>Fairy didn't make it, after all.
>Oh, I forgot. YOur type of mentality needs a 100% guarantee on everything
>to make it worthwhile... How immature. I think that you are a fine case
>of the eternal "ME" person I refer to so often...
>
Larry has already done an excellent job of calling attention to
your deletion of two comments of yours that I was responding to in
this posting. I was merely pointing out that your equation was 
perhap a bit optimistic. I might also point out that it is NOT
YOUR PAIN that you wish to enforce through legislation. 

You know little about me personally, Steve. Your comments
concerning my personal maturity and your accusation that I
am an 'eternal "ME" person' might not reflect reality. 
>
[more deletions]
>
You also deleted a comment of yours in which you said that the 
birth mother could visit her offspring after giving it up for
adoption. Do your homework. What percentage of legal adoptions
currently allow visitation for biological mothers?

[as Larry has pointed out, the following flame was preceeded
by a comment of Steve's to the effect that women who choose
abortion do so because of reasoning like, 'if I can't have it 
no one can'.]
>
>>I'm beginning to think we have another case of 'clueless twit'
>>syndrome. Document this, please. 
>   Document what? You struggling attempt to defeat my ideas by closing
>off with the ever so witty insult? No, I think the only documentation should
>be another example of the pro-choice movement emphasising it's own 
>selfish rationalle once again. As well, the pattern remains of the
>mentally-agressive/violent tactics of the pro-choice movement
>to bash at and insult the pro-life movement with meaningless words of
>hate or distaste. 

At the very least, you should label deletions when you make them.
Claiming the moral high ground after I responded to your insulting
trivialization of the motivations of women choosing abortion is a
very mature thing to do, Stevey.

>                   Try not to be condascending in your posts, because I
>can assure you, I _AM_ you equal.
>
In constructing coherent sentences? I leave it to my gentle readers
to be the judge of that.

If you wish to assert that you are my equal in terms of relevant life 
experiences, you should live a few years, get pregnant while you're
dirt poor, give birth three times, go back in time before RvW and
watch your best friend almost die from a self-induced abortion, raise
three kids to their teens, go back to school while holding down two
jobs and raising three kids, and get yourself a _whole bunch_ of
ex-boyfriends.

muriel
standars disclaimer
Newsgroups: talk.abortion