HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: e_splett@kaofs.enet.dec.com (Evan Splett - Ottawa)
Subject: Re: designs
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Distribution: rec
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 15:27:22 GMT


In article <1992Nov19.3247.1156@dosgate>, "john o'grady" <john.o'grady@canrem.com> writes...
>currently.  I have been looking for a design or pattern for a delta
>style stunt kite that I could built myself.  I have checked the local

There are plenty of kite makers in Toronto, if you are looking for materials
you might call Michael Graves (Leading Edge Productions) phone 416-977-2819.

The only book in English with more than 1 stunt kite plan is the following :

------
Stunt Kites to Make and Fly,
by Servaas van der Horst and Nop Velthuizen.
ISBN 90-6868-052-8
THOTH Publishers, P.C. Hooftstraat 57-1, 1071 BN Amsterdam,
the Netherlands.

Available from Kite Lines for US $21.95 .

Kite Lines
P.O. Box 466
Randallstown, MD 21133-0466, USA

Phone: 301-922-1212, 10AM to 10PM Eastern US time (weekends variable)
Fax:   301-922-4262 (as above) (anytime)
------

    Evan.
Newsgroups: rec.kites
From: "john o'grady" <john.o'grady@canrem.com>
Subject: designs
Reply-To: "john o'grady" <john.o'grady@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: rec
Date: 19 Nov 92 20:08:57 EST

I am just a beginner in this sport; I have a Trilby diamond kite
currently.  I have been looking for a design or pattern for a delta
style stunt kite that I could built myself.  I have checked the local
library and hobby stores and have had no success.  The library had a
number of books with designs for single line kites but none containing
two line models.

I would appretiate any help in my search.

Thank-you,
Looking Skyward.
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
From: spaceman@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: Re: Flexifoils: how do they work?
Date: 23 Nov 92 11:40:58 CST
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

In article <1992Nov19.132019.12311@ohm.york.ac.uk>, jkn@ohm.york.ac.uk (John Nicoll) writes:
> Having built my flexifoil (see recnt postings), I've been
> discussing with colleagues how they actually fly. The
> side view of a Flexi- is a sort of inverted wing shape,
> and we have speculated that it the downward `lift`
> levers around the leading spar to align the kite
> at an angle to the wind - almost 90 degrees, as it happens.

The Flexi uses an inverted airfoil cross section, which will pivot the
foil about the l.e. spar so that the net moment of the forces (tension in
string, lift on the curved bottom ('downward lift'), and drag about the
center of gravity (very close to the spar) are
zero. Think of it this way:

Sum of the moments about the c.g. = T*Xt + L*Xl + D*Xd +Lt*Xlt= 0
where:  T is tension in the line, Xt is the distance from c.g. to the tension
	force
	L is lift, Xl is the distance from the c.g. to the lift force
	on the cambered surface (bottom of the flexi)

	Lt is lift at the top of the flexi (see 'forward velocity' question)
	Xlt is the distance between c.g. and the Lt force

	Note that the moment arm Xl for Lift is much greater than moment
	arm for the lift produced above  the mesh

	D is drag, Xd is the distance from the c.g. to the drag force.
	There is also drag at the top of the flexi!

        Note that Xlt << Xl, so not much pivoting will occur due to
	the lift produded at the top of the flexi

These moments will position the flexifoil at a certain angle with respect to
the relative wind (aka angle of attack) since kite is moving.


> But I'm not sure where all that `forward' velocity comes from,
> nor how the bending of the spar affects things.

Here comes the interesting part (and the part that made me pull out a 
picture of the flexi to answer this question)

If you notice the position of the spar relative to the leading edge of the
kite- it is below the mesh.  But, there is a curved part ( the leading edge
radius) above the mesh.  This curved radius will generate lift also (decreases
the pressure near the top-front of the flexi).

(Note that lift is perpendicular to the relative wind)
(Also note that even though the airfoil is at a large negative angle of attack,
 i.e. the airfoil is inverted, lift can still be produced on the non-cambered
 side- like a flat plate at some angle to the wind)

It is this lift (in conjunction with the moments) which gives the flexi 
the forward velocity.

The bending of the flexi is for control (and probably a little stability).
By pulling on one string, you effectively decrease the angle of attack on one
side, which produces less lift on that side (L and Lt) and the kite 
pivots about the other string.
 
> 	john N
> -- 
> john nicoll (jkn@ohm.york.ac.uk)

Paul
spaceman@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
From: cdt@zoo.bt.co.uk (Clive Dennett-Thorpe)
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: Re: KITE POWERED BOAT
Date: 18 Nov 92 11:59:48 GMT
Reply-To: cdt@zoo.bt.co.uk
Organization: BT Laboratories


The Green's attempt at a Channel Crossing was in 1989 from
Brighton to Ostende and was kite-powered by a Green's Stratascoop4
parafoil. Unfortunately they had some assistance in mid-channel due 
to a lull in the wind.

The Stratascoop4 has 12 cells and is 106 inches by 88 inches.
The recommended line strength is 600kg and it is quoted as capable
of lifting 20kg.

Clive 'Land-lubber' D-T.!!
From: pat@cs.strath.ac.uk (Pat Prosser)
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: Re: Applique with Ripstop?
Date: 16 Nov 92 11:20:56 GMT
Organization: Comp. Sci. Dept., Strathclyde Univ., Glasgow, Scotland.

Applique is not difficult. Generally what I do is 

(1) Cut out a shape I want to put on the kite surface
(2) Fix this onto the sail. I do this either by spraying the
    surfaces with water, or with spray mount (that spray on
    glue they use for mounting photographs on card).
(3) I then stitch the material to the sail
(4) Finally, I take a seam ripper with a "ball on the end". 
    They all have a "ball on the end". I then make a nick in
    the back of the surface and then insert the seam ripper,
    placing the "ball" against the seam, and zip around the
    seam.
(5) If you used spray mount, clean the surface. 


Easy .... but practice so that you have confidence.
From: spaceman@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: FAQ ATTAQ
Date: 23 Nov 92 11:51:35 CST
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

Who has the FAQ?  I have a couple of kites that I want to include in it.
Paul
e-mail me- don't post it in the news!

Newsgroups: rec.kites
From: WVOSS@novell.com (Wes Voss)
Subject: Re: designs
Organization: Novell, Inc.
Distribution: rec
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 06:12:02 GMT

In article <1992Nov19.3247.1156@dosgate> "john o'grady" <john.o'grady@canrem.com> writes:
>From: "john o'grady" <john.o'grady@canrem.com>
>Subject: designs
>Date: 19 Nov 92 20:08:57 EST
>I am just a beginner in this sport; I have a Trilby diamond kite
>currently.  I have been looking for a design or pattern for a delta
>style stunt kite that I could built myself.  I have checked the local
>library and hobby stores and have had no success.  The library had a
>number of books with designs for single line kites but none containing
>two line models.
>
>I would appretiate any help in my search.

One novice to another; based on recommendations here, I bought a book called 
kiteworks". It is a grea book, and has plans for some stunt kites...

Wes

-----------------------------------------------------------
Wes Voss
Novell, Inc
Internet: wvoss@novell.com
Fax: 801-342-1211
Disclaimer: These are just my opinions, and no one else's;
            No one in their right mind would share them...
___________________________________________________________
From: mss@endor.uucp (Marty Sasaki)
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: Re: kite shop in Twin Cities area?
Date: 23 Nov 92 04:20:36 GMT
Article-I.D.: das.1992Nov23.042036.8123
Distribution: na
Organization: Sasaki Kite Fabrications

Rather than continually ask questions like, "are there any kite shops
in XXX?", or, "are there fliers in XXX?", let me suggest joining the
American Kitefliers Association. One of the benefits of joining the
AKA is a membership list. The list also has "member merchants". Member
merchants give 10% discounts.

Kite fliers are friendly folks. I'm sure that most would welcome a
call from someone asking about clubs, flying fields, or kite shops in
the area.

The easiest way to join the AKA is to call the toll free number :

	1-800-AKA-2550

Membership costs $15 these days. A few benefits of membership:

	o The previously mentioned 10% discount with member merchants.
	o Liability insurance.
	o Discounts on AKA merchandise and publications.
	o Subscription to "Kiting", the bi-monthly (or is it
	  semi-monthly?, it comes out 6 times a year).

Additionally, most stunt kite contests require AKA membership for
participation.

Sasaki Kite Fabrications offers 15% discounts to AKA members.

If you do call, tell Brookes Leffler that I sent you...

--------------------------------------------------------------------
  Marty Sasaki			  Sasaki Kite Fabrications		
  mss@das.harvard.edu		  26 Green Street
  phone:  617-522-8546		  Jamaica Plain, MA 02130
From: jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu (Jeffrey C. Burka)
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: Re: Attaching arrow nocks to Graphite spars
Date: 20 Nov 92 12:48:44 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland at College Park

In article <1eed2uINN5de@gap.caltech.edu> lxrosser@cco.caltech.edu (Alex Rosser) writes:
>
>  I'm resparing a kite for a friend and I need some advice on the
>best way to mate plastic arrow nocks to graphite spars

I never glue nocks onto my graphite.  It makes it too hard to remove
the remnants if the nock breaks and needs to be replaced.  Besides, there's
not really much point to it; the bungee (or whatever is used to tension
the sail) will hold the nock in place.  If I'm using nocks with metal
inserts, I'll glue the nock to the insert, often with a silicone gel sort
of adhesive.  Still easy to get on and off, and once again, you really don't
need to worry about the nock going anywhere once the sail is tensioned.

A lot of people have been using heat-shrink tubing to fasten items on spars
lately (JordanAire and TotL are two manufacturers I can think of who do
this) and it works just dandily.  It's certainly worthy a try.

Jeff
-- 
|Jeffrey C. Burka                | "Show what you are / Be strong, be true  |
|                                |  Time for you to / Be who you are."      |
|jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu            |                         --Happy Rhodes   |
Newsgroups: rec.kites
From: THOMASG@epx.cis.umn.edu (Thomas D. Gasser)
Subject: Re: kite shop in Twin Cities area?
Organization: Department of Neurosurgery, University of Minnesota
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 16:04:17 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.140246.10428@news.stolaf.edu> kriesel@mari.acc-admin.stolaf.edu (Julie R Kriesel) writes:
>From: kriesel@mari.acc-admin.stolaf.edu (Julie R Kriesel)
>Subject: kite shop in Twin Cities area?
>Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 14:02:46 GMT
>
>Hi, everybody!  I am just getting into kiting (having bought my first
>kite from Into The Wind, a DC), and I am wondering if anybody knows of
>a good kite store in the Twin Cities metro area...that is, if there are
>even people from Minnesota posting here, I haven't noticed any...
>
>At any rate, if you can help me out, I would really appreciate it.
>
>Julie Kriesel
>

Let me know what you find out.  I am interested also.



*********************************************************************
*  Thomas D. Gasser                                                 *
*  Department of Neurosurgery                *******     ******     *
*  University of Minnesota                    ***  *** *** ***      *
*  (612) 624-4427                             ***   *****  ***      *
*  E-Mail:  THOMASG@STAFF.TC.UMN.EDU         *****        *****     *
*                                                                   *
*********************************************************************
From: jkn@ohm.york.ac.uk (John Nicoll)
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: Flexifoils: how do they work?
Date: 19 Nov 92 13:20:19 GMT
Organization: Electronics Department, University of York, UK

Having built my flexifoil (see recnt postings), I've been
discussing with colleagues how they actually fly. The
side view of a Flexi- is a sort of inverted wing shape,
and we have speculated that it the downward `lift`
levers around the leading spar to align the kite
at an angle to the wind - almost 90 degrees, as it happens.
But I'm not sure where all that `forward' velocity comes from,
nor how the bending of the spar affects things.

Anyone else have any thoughts on these matters?

	john N
-- 
john nicoll (jkn@ohm.york.ac.uk)
Department of Electronics  University of York
Heslington   YORK YO1 5DD U.K
NEW PHONE! Tel +44 (904) 433221   Fax +44 (904) 432335
Newsgroups: rec.kites
From: mskogmo@nmsu.edu (SKOGMO)
Subject: Good stunters?
Organization: NMSU Computer Science
Distribution: rec.kites
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 00:02:42 GMT

Hello, I am very interested in stunt kites.  Right now, I have a "Hot
Wings" or something like that.  It performs ok, but stunts like
tip-stands and true square turns are impossible as far as I can tell.
I have been looking at a Hawaiian Team Kite.  It is big, 8'2"X3'9" and
can be flown in moderate to heavy winds.  The neat thing is that it
can be converted to 4 line flying.  Right now, I want to stick with 2,
but I would like the option.

Thanks in advance,

Matt
mskogmo@dante.nmsu.edu
From: cdt@zoo.bt.co.uk (Clive Dennet-Thorpe)
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: Re: Jim Rowland's Flowform
Date: 17 Nov 92 18:28:53 GMT
Reply-To: cdt@zoo.bt.co.uk
Organization: BT Laboratories


In recent kitemail someone mentioned a problem
with this Flowform design but didn't let on as 
to what it was.

I'll plead ignorance and say that I can't spot it
and would like to know 'cos I'm certainly not going
to commit 8 metres of precious ripstop without knowing!!!

Thanks,


CLive
From: mss@endor.uucp (Marty Sasaki)
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: Re: Rokkaku sparring
Date: 20 Nov 92 15:12:28 GMT
Article-I.D.: das.1992Nov20.151228.6080
Organization: Sasaki Kite Fabrications

For a 7 foot rokkaku that is to fly in light to moderate winds (up to
around 12 mph) I have use Glassforms fiberglass K75. For a 5 footer I
would probably use G50 or J65 depending on the wind that you expect to
fly it in.

These days, I use graphite in my rokkakus since I have a lot of it
around the shop for use in stunt kites. A 7 footer gets AFC 2540.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
  Marty Sasaki			  Sasaki Kite Fabrications		
  mss@das.harvard.edu		  26 Green Street
  phone:  617-522-8546		  Jamaica Plain, MA 02130
Newsgroups: rec.mag
From: tmpcms@eua.ericsson.se (Carl Michael Skoog)
Subject: Q: Email address to C Users Journal
Organization: Ellemtel Telecom Systems Labs, Stockholm, Sweden
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 18:27:57 GMT


Newsgroups: rec.ham-radio,rec.ham-radio.packet,rec.ham-radio.swap,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.packet
From: rawass@rhrk.uni-kl.de (Alexander Rawass)
Subject: central question / FAQ needed
Organization: University of Kaiserslautern, Germany
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 22:22:27 GMT


Hi,

I have some central questions about connecting
two hosts via some protocol, without using
the telephone-net :

I want to connect two or more hosts (running
Unix) with either TCP/IP or ka9q or something
by transmitting the data 'through the air'!

So I wanted to know, what hardware equipment
I will need, and I also wanted to know what
is the correct term for this (ham-radio?
packet-radio? cb?)

Anyway, I don't want to spend too much money
on the radio hardware (less than DM 300, that
are US$ 200).

I intended to use so called CB-units (don't
know the correct english term).


So, if you have some material about this
or if you can answer my questions or if
you can tell me where to find a FAQ for
tis group, please emal me or post to this
group...



Rawalex
--------------------------+--------------------------------------------------
Alexander Rawass          | "Life's a piece of shit ... when you look at it."
rawass@sun.rhrk.uni-kl.de | Monty Python's Life of Brian                     
--------------------------+--------------------------------------------------

-- 
Rawalex
--------------------------+--------------------------------------------------
Alexander Rawass          | "Life's a piece of shit ... when you look at it."
rawass@sun.rhrk.uni-kl.de | Monty Python's Life of Brian                     
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: steve@yogi.hsc.ucalgary.ca
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Bear Repellant
Date: 18 Nov 92 11:10:09 MDT

I just spoke to a friend who spoke to his friend who works in the north.  They
have to worry about polar bears.  They usually carry shot guns loaded with
slugs but because of environmental concerns, they started using those bear
repelants.  He said they will "drop a bear in two meters".  I know they aren't
meant to "drop" a bear.  It was probably just his colorful expression.

Anyway, if its good enough for him, its good enough for me.
-- 
[*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*]
[*]                                 [*]                                 [*]
[*]    Steve Hocevar                [*]                ravecoH evetS    [*]
[*]    Calgary, Alberta, Canada     [*]     adanaC ,atreblA ,yraglaC    [*]
[*]                                 [*]                                 [*]
[*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*]
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: dsc@gemini.tmc.edu (Doug S. Caprette Bldg. 28 W191 x3892)
Subject: Re: USFS Backcountry Fees
Organization: NASA GSFC CDP VLBI
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 22:32:33 GMT

In article <1ebq45INNm42@morrow.stanford.edu> AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney) writes:
>I have just seen a news report on a proposal to charge user fees for
>backpacking and hiking use of the National Forests.  My first
>response was negative.  However, to say that the money collected
>would be used to replace logging revenues.  The implication was that
>for every $1 collected from backpackers there would be $1 less in
>timber sales.  If this is true I would be inclined to change my
>view.
>

The amount of timber sold from the National Forests is determined by Congress,
not by the USFS.  Unless Congress acts to rduce timber sales in proportion
to user fees collected (I contend that they will not) then this simply will
not happen.

The User fees will simply be collected in addition to the timber sales.

Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: bschwart@ferris.cray.com (Robert J. Schwartz)
Subject: Re: Cat mistakes sleeping bag for litterbox
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Distribution: na
Date: 20 Nov 92 08:59:33 CST

A co-worker tells me there are products that will reliably remove the odor
of cat urine. This sort of thing happens to carpets all the time. It's not
cheap (she says ~$6 at a pet store) but compared to the cost of a down
bag...

For something the size of a sleeping bag you may need two bottles. Soaking it
in a bathtub with this stuff should take care of the smell, if not the
cleaning.

Bob Schwartz
bschwart@cray.com
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna)
Subject: Re: The overpopulation problem. NOT!
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 23:30:29 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department

>	I disagree that anyplace is a lifeboat-situation. The Earth is hardly
>crowded. If 4 billion people can exist at subsistence conditions in
>collectivist countries, then perhaps 30 billion could be comfortable in
>Capitalist, free nations in their place.
>
>	-Austin Moseley

But if the 30 billion are already exporting all their rosewood and
teak to the 4 billion, from where will the 30 billion new capitalists
get their Danish furniture?  This has me perplexed. 
~

-- 

-Wayne Trzyna
 trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: cfkjk1@ux1.cts.eiu.edu (Karl-Ludwig Konrad)
Subject: Re: Lowe/North Face/Patagonia, etc...
Summary: sierra design tents
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 02:22:49 GMT
Distribution: usa
Expires: december 1 1992
Organization: Eastern Illinois University
Followup-To: tents

Sierra Design has been making good tents for many years. If you expect
high winds and extreme weather conditions, I'd recommend one of their
four-season tents:
SUPERFLASH - not free standing - 5 lbs 5oz
TIROS - 2 person - double vestibule - freestanding 6 lbs 15oz 
STRETCHDOME - 2-3 person - 7 lbs 11oz 
The STRETCHDOME is an improved version of the old DOMICILE and solid in
high winds, hail & sleet. An optional expedition fly with extra large
vestibule for only 3 lbs 5oz gets you ready for the worst.

Different friends reported favorably on both the TIROS & the STRECHDOME
for Colorado summer camping at high altitude with varying weather
conditions.

SIERRA DESIGN makes two tents that may remind a person of the NF TADPOLE:
The old FLASHLIGHT and its newer cousins the CLIP FLASHLIGHT and CLIP-3
are in the first group. They are not free standing and with two poles are
not meant to withold snowloads. The second group is the old standby: the
SPHINX. The SPHINX was made before the tadpole/bullfrog series ever
hatched. In the early eighties it ran about $250.-. Those needing repairs
can get it done by mailing the tent to SIERRA DESIGN. Count on about
$100.- for either a new fly or a new floor. At that price it pays to read
REI sale fliers. While SIERRA DESIGN has not offered the tent for years,
REI started selling it in 1991 at a discounted price of $149.-. Yes the
fly vestibule may be akward to get out of, but the low profile cuts the
oncoming wind nicely. The SPHINX has more interior room than the tadpole,
but weighs less than the bullfrog. It served us well in the early eighties
and at 5 lbs 9 oz it's a great little tent for two. SIERRA DESIGN sells a
newer version called SPHINX-2 and SPHINX-3. The original SPHINX depends on
two poles while the new version added a fourth pole at the low footend of
the tent. In all the peak is nice an tall letting two adults play cards
sitting up straight. Try doing that in a tadpole. SPHINX-2 = 4 lbs 14oz
and the SPHINX-3 = 6 lbs 8 oz. 

So much for tent wisdom.

=======================================================================
karl konrad - eastern illinois university -charleston, il 61920
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna)
Subject: Re: The overpopulation problem. NOT!
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 23:14:00 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department

In article <1992Nov20.121950.1@vmsb.is.csupomona.edu> cvakgaaq@vmsb.is.csupomona.edu writes:
>> 
>>>Can I please just exist?
>> 
>> Sure.  There is a 300 sq ft hovel reserved for you in downtown Tokyo.
>> 
>> -- 
>> 
>> -Wayne Trzyna
>>  trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU
>
>
>	Racist. The Japanese are some of the finest people on Earth and the
>most efficient; they will inherit the mantle of Western Civilization as America
>reverts to tribalism, mysticism, and self-denigration.
>
>-Austin

But they sure are crowded on that tiny island.  That's where we're headed
(more slowly, due to our inefficiency).

-- 

-Wayne Trzyna
 trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: sbyrnes@rice.edu (Steven Byrnes)
Subject: Re: Multiplying in the Backcountry (kids/population)
Reply-To: sbyrnes@rice.edu (Steven Byrnes)
Organization: Locutus
	<JEFFK.92Nov17103207@dosXX.med.utah.edu> <10776@vice.ICO.TEK.COM>
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 02:58:25 GMT

On 17 Nov 92 21:14:52 GMT, Hal F Lillywhite said:

> The number we really need is fertility.  Anybody have it?  I think I
> heard it is still below the replacement rate but can't document that.

According to the CIA World Fact Book, available electronically via Project
Gutenberg, the United States' total fertility rate is 1.8 children born per
woman as of 1991.  (The net migratation rate, according to this source, is
2 migrants per 1,000 population as of 1991.)

Steven