HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: heathd@ucs.orst.edu (Du Shi-hua Heath)
Subject: Re: Territory of Ancient China : Ming Dynasty
Organization: University Computing Services - OSU
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 21:56:09 GMT

In article <1992Sep8.021536.8071@leland.Stanford.EDU> claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
>In article <9225200.21875@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU> dht@cs.mu.OZ.AU (Joyous Dave baby) writes:
>>**Period:
>>1433 A.D.
>>It occupies what's now the modern China; plus eastern part of Siberia;
>>except Outer Mongolia, and XinJiang Uygur.
>
>Huh?  No way.  Manchurians were tributary states to Ming, but no way were
>they "controlled."  Besides, not even they controlled eastern Siberia.
>
>And I haven't even read one credible source that listed Xin Jiang among Ming
>territory.  In fact, western Gan Su was not part of Ming either.
>>**Area under Central Influence:
>>
>>XiZang (formally called Tibet / Tu Fan) could be argued whether
>>it was under Central Control, or Central Influence; as was
>>Manchuria.
>
>Huh?  I don't think Ming had any control over Tibet.

Seem to me you don't believe many parts of the origional post, and point out
many mistakes.  Could you summarize your version of ancient Chinese territory?
And please give a reference of your resources.  I'd like to see all the
versions of Chinese history and related subjucts.
From: hong@mbfys.kun.nl (Hong Zhou)
Subject: Looking for a friend at Texas A&M Univ.
Organization: University of Nijmegen
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 12:04:52 GMT

Hi Everyone out Texas,

I am in search of the address/telephone number of a friend
whose name is Elsje Verhagen. She is a graduate student majoring
in Education at Texas A&M Univ. If you can help me to locate 
her, please drop me a message. Your help is deeply appreciated. 

Thanks in advance, 

Hong Zhou
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hong Zhou            |-----|    \       Dept. of Med. Physics & Biophysics
Muzenplaats 30       |__|__| |-----|    University of Nijmegen
6525 JA Nijmegen     | _|_ |  --|--     6525 EZ Nijmegen, The Netherlands
The Netherlands      |  _  |   / 	
                     | |_| |  / /       Tel.   +31-80-614230
Tel. +31-80-556412  /     \|   /__\     email: hong@mbfys.kun.nl
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: yu@physun.physics.mcmaster.ca (Fan Yu)
Subject: Re: anonymous posting - just a test
Organization: Dept. of Physics & Astronomy, McMaster University
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 02:55:25 GMT

In article <001@x.y.z> abc@x.y.z writes:
>Hi, guys,
>I know you can track me down.  Could you send me e-mail?
>
>Just a test, please take it easy. 
>
>(ps. thank you SFU guy.)
>

Nobody is interested in tracking you down. You have not yet been
featured on "America's most wanted". But if you want e-mail or 
want to play games so much, there is a better way:
Go to alt.personals, get a REAL anonymous account and pretend to be a 
transexual female.:-)

					Fan
Xref: sparky soc.culture.china:25260 soc.culture.taiwan:13124
From: li@sicvax.enet.dec.com (Tong-Kang Li)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Who Cares 150 F-16s.
Date: 11 Sep 92 01:13:11 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


In article <10SEP199216172457@deimos.ucc.umass.edu>, s9874194@deimos.ucc.umass.edu (s9874194) writes...
>In article <1992Sep10.154925.1543@nntpd.lkg.dec.com>, li@sicvax.enet.dec.com (Tong-Kang Li) writes...
>==========================================================================
>Treaty is something between two governments with full sovereignty.
>How many people in this WORLD still think that Taipei is a legitimate
>and sovereign government? If not, how can one sign a tready with it?
>Not to mention Beijing!!!!!
>c.q.
>========================================================================

Ok, let's use agreement. Did KMT and CCP sign "suspension of war" agreement 
during the civil war? KMT regime was legitimate and sovereign government of
China at the time. 

Again, Taiwan has proposed "no war" agreement but Mainland China refused. 
Tell me why?
From: zhuh@athena.mit.edu (Hui Zhu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: WHAT REAL TIBETANS THINK?
Date: 6 Sep 92 02:23:44 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

In article <0003@tia.lhasa.tb>, Real_Tibetans@tia.lhasa.tb writes:
|> In article 86481 from zhuh@athena.mit.edu (Hui Zhu):
|>  
|> >|> Do you think the UPI report is nonsense?  It comes from a recent issue of 
|> >|> China News Digest.
|> >
|> >1st. UPI does/did make false report. VOA is another big liar.
|>  
|> Can you prove that UPI "did make false report"?  Or, is it that you 
|> don't want to believe it?  
|>  
|>  
|> Tibetans want independence!   China out!
|>  
|>  
|> A committee of real Tibetans.


As long as a guy like you(I know you are a faked tibetan out there) fool around
using a faked account, posting faked message from "real tibetan",  no real person
will believe you.   Cheating won't do you any good, understand?

You want a proof? :)  Here is the proof:

1st, you proved your NOT a real Tibetan, since real Tibetan donot have an 
account "Real_Tibetans@tia.lhasa.tb". :)  So you are a liar.

2nd, during the TAM 89 democratic movement, both UPI and AP made tons of
false news, such as Deng was dying, army units are fighting each other...
VOA, another big liar, spreaded all these rumors and made the situation 
in chaos.   After the massacre, they again rumored hundreds and thousands 
killed in TAM square...  

So what other proof you want?  Need more, call UPI and AP. They have more stories. :)
  
Plus, some so-called student leaders purposely made some rumors for their own 
political purpose, just as what you are doing right now.  Enjoy it? you cheap liar.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.china:25390 soc.culture.taiwan:13216
From: zheng@euch4c.chem.emory.edu
Subject: test
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 16:33:24 GMT


This is a test. Please ignore.
From: peng@castle.ed.ac.uk (W Peng)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,eduni.general
Subject: test
Date: 6 Sep 92 15:30:41 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University



Test! Please ignore it.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: Weiguo.Zhao@dartmouth.edu (Weiguo Zhao)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Test
Date: 10 Sep 92 23:10:54 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
X-Posted-From: InterNews1.0a5@newshost.dartmouth.edu

Everyone has a good time tomorrow night, Chinese traditional Mid-Autumn
festival.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: yu@physun.physics.mcmaster.ca (Fan Yu)
Subject: Re: English Usage
Organization: Dept. of Physics & Astronomy, McMaster University
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 01:18:06 GMT

In article <9209042248.AA14516@einstein.physics.buffalo.edu> xiaofei@einstein.physics.buffalo.edu (XiaoFei Wang) writes:
>* >  The discussion reminds me of this most stupid thing (I think) in English.
>* >You say 1 meter, 2 meters, 10 meters, 0.5 meters, 0.001 meters, and you
>* >even have to say -72 meters, -0.975 meters, and of course, ZERO METERS!  
>* >Everything except 1 is plural.  Now what about -1?  Is it singular? :-)
>* 
>* >dhsy@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
>  
>The correct usage is for | X | <= 1, we say X meter, otherwise X meters.

Is it? I didn't know that English native speakers were so mathematical:-)

	Fan
From: cyc@dip.eecs.umich.edu (Yi-Chieh Chang)
Subject: Re: 150 F-16 to Taiwan
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 20:08:57 GMT

>I don't think $90b can buy a win of war. How many people in the world
>are sharing your TI's dream? You may think *MAYBE* USA will support you,
>but remember, there is no long-live-friendship between countries, the only
>thing is long-live-interests, right? don't count on the *MAYBE* support in a
>war.
>Kuwait is rich, right? but she can do nothing if USA don't help
>Kuwait drive Iraq away. A huge country DO means something in a war if both
>side can use similar arms.

If Taiwanese really get serious about defending their own future, we are
talking about $1000 billions here. $90 billions is the trade surplus,
it's only hair out of 9 cows. Kuwait is rich, but Taiwan's wealth can buy 
10 times of Kuwait's oil, do you know that ? As long as Taiwanese can make
Taiwan become an international interest to do business and make profit. 
I doubt any of those countries will let any other aggressive country to
destroy their business opportunity. 

Yi-Chieh
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.turkish,soc.culture.taiwan
From: jamolina@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Molina)
Subject: Alt.visa.US
Organization: Syracuse University
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 19:24:51 EDT


To all of you guys with experience or questions about U.S. visas, residence,
and/or citizenship. There is a new newsgroup called alt.visa.us to discuss
this topic in detail. We encourage all those interested to join the group
and help clear up the intricacies of U.S. immigration laws. We appreciate
your help!
From: unregistered@newcastle.ac.uk (sundaram)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: To those pro Shen Tong guys .. a question for SCC folks
Date: 10 Sep 92 16:03:17 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.china
Organization: Cadcomp

In article <ROTEN.92Sep9165304@CUBA.gsfc.nasa.gov>,
roten@CUBA.gsfc.nasa.gov (Charles Roten) wrote:
> 
> In article <8974unreg-080992172928@cinder.ncl.ac.uk> 
> unregistered@newcastle.ac.uk (sundaram) writes:
> 
> [sigh .. never mind .. cited rant deleted]
> 
> A question for SCC netters:  
> 
> What is it about this thread that makes me feel that the Cultural 
> Revolution is alive, well, and living in Usenet News ????  
> 
> --
> Charles Roten | Hughes-STX, Incorporated | 
>   roten@cuba.gsfc.nasa.gov               | 'Use the Source, Luke!'
>   7601 Ora-Glen Dr., Greenbelt, MD 20706 | 
>   301-513-7805 (w),  301-317-0872 (h)    |            Obi-Wan Stallman
Pardon my boorishness! Wow..a mature WASP arse on SCC. A million apologies
Obi-Wan Roten. What are you doing here, having your arse polished?
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: rsanders@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (RRobert M Sanders)
Subject: Re: Change in spelling of Chinese names
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 17:41:47 GMT

Thank you so much for responding.  As a matter of fact I do have a comment.  It
seems to me that China did ask other countries to adopt the Han4yu3 Pin1yin1 
spelling of Chinese names several years ago.  The adoption of pinyin spellings 
in this country was not something that happened because we naturally thought 
that these spellings were better.  Afterall, we had become VERY comfortable 
with spellings like 'Peking' and 'Mao Tse-tung,' and breaking old habits does 
not come easily.  IMHO, however, the request for us to use pinyin spellings was
very reasonable, and I only wish we would start to spell placenames in other 
countries the way people in those countries actually spell them.  Since Han4yu3
Pin1yin1 is a Chinese invention (designed to teach standard Mandarin 
pronunciation to Chinese people), the Chinese have already done all the work.  
Should China decide to modernize some of its transliterations of non-Chinese 
names, then I am afraid that it is the burden of the Chinese to come up with a 
workable set of changes, ones that are agreeable to native speakers.  (Look 
what happened to the second and third groups of character simplifications 
proposed by the Chinese government.  They were not very well-received by native
speakers.)  If modernization of transliterations were to take place in Chinese,
I don't think that it would need to take place on a very large scale.  A few 
examples I can think of off the top my head which could be given better Chinese
translations include 'California,' 'Boston,' and 'New York.'
From: jamesou@liverbug.hsc.usc.edu (James Ou)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: The AutuMid-Autumn Festival
Date: 11 Sep 1992 16:38:33 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: liverbug.hsc.usc.edu

lix@xanadu.bu.edu (Xiaowen Li) wrote:

>Unfotunately, Ms. Chang-O's life is miserable on the Moon.

Yes, Chang-O's life is miserable. She has to live in the wide
and cold palace (Guang3 Han2 Gong1) by herself. Even Tang poets
pitied her. They said:

     Chang-O Ying1 Hui3 Tou1 Ling2 Yao4,
     Bi4 Hai3 Qing1 Tian1 Ye4 Ye4 Xin1.
     (Chang-O must be feeling sorry about stealing the immortal
      drug. She is lonely and has only the blue ocean and sky to
      accompany her.)

>Sorry, but I did not make up this story. It is the earliest record (as early as
>Zhang Hen in Han dynasty). Maybe James can find even earlier version?

I can't. My knowledge about Chang-O came from my childhood. I
still remember what my grandmother told me, "Don't ever tell a
lie. The half moon will come to your room during the night and
cut off your tongue."  :-)

Well, my version about the story of Chang-O is slightly different
from that of Yi-lin's:

     Once upon a time there were ten suns in the sky. They
  generated so much heat that grains could not be grown and people
  were dying of thirst. Then there came this great archer "Hou Yi".
  He shot down nine of the suns. He was stopped by people before he
  shot down the tenth and the last sun. People wanted to leave one
  sun in the sky so that the earth would remain bright and not be
  cold. Later on, Hou became the king and a tyrant of China. Chang-
  O stole the immortal drug from Hou because she did not want Hou
  to live forever which would mean endless sufferring of Chinese
  people. Then, there was the story about Chang-O in the moon.

     Of course, these are just fairy tales. Your story is most
likely also correct. Don't we also call the moon "Yu4 Chan2 Chu2"
(Jade Toad)? There may be different versions in different
geographical areas of China. It is believed that "Hou Yi" indeed
existed in Xia4 dynasty. He took over the throne of Xia dynasty.
Before long, Hou was killed by his minister "Han2 Zhuo2". The
Xia4 prince "Shao4 Kang1" with 600 people (Yi4 Lyu3) restored
Xia4 dynasty and, historically, it was called "Shao4 Kang1 Zhong1
Xing1".

Some people asked about the story of Jade Rabbits and Wu2 Gang1.
There are two Chinese phrases: Yu4 Tu4 Dao3 Yao4 and Wu2 Gang1
Fa1 Gui4. I can't remember the story about the Jade Rabbits, but
I do remember that Wu2 Gang1 was punished to cut the Gui4 tree on
the moon by the Jade Emperor because he was impious to his
parents. The Jade Emperor told Wu that his punishment would be
over if he could chop down the tree. Unfortunately, the wound of
the tree healed every time Wu removed the axe from the tree.

*****Ren1 Sheng1 De2 Yi4 Xu1 Jin4 Huan1,
     Muo4 Shi3 Jin1 Zun1 Kong1 Dui4 Yue4.
     (When you are in luck, have a good time and get drunk.
      Don't let your wine cup stay empty to face the moon.)

:-)  :-)
From: mth015@marshall.wvnet.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: F-16,pilots.
Date: 11 Sep 92 20:02:57 GMT
Organization: Marshall University

One of my Tawanese friends tald me the quality of Tawanese pilot and said
" If the way break someday, most of F-16 pilot will dispear or be called
back to there home by there parents or wife."
I am wonding is it that bad? Welcome your answers.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.hongkong,soc.culture.taiwan
From: rlp@yosemite.mpd.tandem.com (Robert Platt)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.japan,soc.history
Subject: Re: US Ironclads (Was: Re: US colonializing )
Date: 14 Sep 92 17:42:44 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.china
Organization: Tandem Computers (MPD)

In article <CB.92Sep11113852@tamarack13.timbuk>, cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster) writes:
|> I wrote:
|> 
|>    >The first important iron ship was, I believe, the Dreadnought (I could
|>    >have the name wrong).
|> 
|> Joe Huang writes:
|> 
|>    The Dreadnought was built in around 1904 at the height of the naval
|>    arms race between England and Germany. ...
|> 
|> Well, at least I qualified my misidentification!  OK, I had the wrong
|> name, but there *was* an English ship of about 1870, to which my posting
|> applied; I think the rest of what I said was correct.  See Scientific
|> American, about 2 years ago.
|> 
|> Chris Brewster
|> cb@cray.com

If you include "ironclads" (ie. iron outer layer over wood hull) the
first was the Confederate ship "Virginia" (formerly the "Merrimac").
The second was the "Monitor".  They fought each other in one of the
more famous naval battles of the American Civil War.  The Virginia
was driven off at the conclusion of the battle.


-- 
       Robert L. Platt                  
Email: rlp@mpd.tandem.com (Work)   I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
       rlp@cactus.org (CACTUS)      
       rlp@ceres.uucp (Home)       Why so can I, or so can any man; but will
Voice: (512) 244-8904              they come when you do call for them?
Fax:   (512) 244-8247               
       Tandem Computers Inc.		William Shakespeare
       14231 Tandem Boulevard       
       Austin, TX 78729-6699
From: hlu@yoda.eecs.wsu.edu (H.J. Lu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Chinese culture
Date: 15 Sep 92 06:07:40 GMT
Article-I.D.: serval.1992Sep15.060740.27035
Organization: Washington State University

In article <14SEP199222351358@deimos.ucc.umass.edu> s9874194@deimos.ucc.umass.edu (s9874194, YANG, Changqing) writes:
>In article <95895@bu.edu>, lix@murray.bu.edu (Xiaowen Li) writes...
>>In article <1992Sep13.223119.5922@tamsun.tamu.edu> x0y3510@tamuts.tamu.edu (Xuejun Yang) writes:
>>>(deleted)
>>>get real, be realistic and objective. Don't apply rich people's 
>>>way of thinking on poor people, that's so-called Chinese reality but
>>>I doubt if poor is equal to bad culture.      
>> 
>>Not equal, but being poor itself suggests something wrong in Chinese
>>culture. We, especially young people, are responsible to learn from
>>western cultures, and find out exactly what is wrong in Chinese one.
>> 
>>It is not easy, but in 80,000 CSS, there must be someones.
>>-- 
>
>China's being poor today is not necessarily the result of Chinese
>culture. Look at the history of past two hundred years we should
>know that. One of the reason for China's being poor is those
>people with so-called superio culture. 
>c.q.

That is a very interesting idea. That is one of reason why
China is China today. Those Western countries did bring China
lots of tragedies. They did also bring us Western culture,
which is very different from Chinese. Without it, we may still
have pig tails, emperor, TAIJIAN, ...... Hey, I may enjoy it if I
happen to be very lucky. But could China be richer than today? ....
I don't know. I doubt it. Take a look at Tibet or some remote areas
of China. There may be no outside influences there. And they also
had no what you have been enjoying and were brought in by those
Western countries. I wish they hadn't done those bad things and China
had been more open at that time.

I didn't see any signicant advance in science and technolody in
ancient China since you know what. Beside that four inventions, what
else China has done? It is a shame our ancestros didn't keep up and
had been reluctant to change. They always thought they were the best,
like some of us still think today. That is one of reasons why those
Western countries could treat our country like that 200 years ago.
It's time for us to realize that and learn from other cultures, at the
same time, keep the best of our culture, but not the garbage. I am
afraid most of our ancient culture are not well suited for the 21th
centry

Even with the influence of Western culture, we still have
`emperor' and FUMUGUAN.

H.J.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: cyc@z.eecs.umich.edu (Yi-Chieh Chang)
Subject: Re: 150 F-16 to Taiwan
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 03:53:50 GMT

>>>I think the selling of F-16 is a good news to Taiwanese, especially TIers,
>>>but definitely bad news for Chinese. Arm race is a bad thing for sure, but
>>>when the bad guys got the gun what you can do about it ? You can either
>>>unarm them or arm yourselves if you don't want to get killed.
>>>Taiwan's buying F-16 is only a sign that all Chinese should learn and
>>>remember forever that Taiwanese have every intention to make their own 
>>>decision on their own future. Taiwan is Taiwanese business none of Chinese'
>>>business. 
>>
>
>I am curious that how much these 150 F-16 can protect Taiwan if
>there were a war break across straight.
>
>F. Wang

Well, probably not too much. But it is only the beginning, isn't it ?
The total cost of 150 F-16s is about $4 billions, it is not a big deal based on
Taiwan's trade surplus, its about $90 billions now.

Yi-Chieh
Xref: sparky soc.culture.china:25528 soc.culture.hongkong:10742 soc.culture.taiwan:13346
From: yl2@cec2.wustl.edu (Yu-fung Liu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.hongkong,soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: I'm very disappointed in Chinese
Date: 14 Sep 92 16:55:53 GMT
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis MO

In article <1992Sep1.194111.25930@csl.sri.com> dchan@cisco.com (Derek Chan) writes:
>1) Your suggestions are not realistic.(refering the railway etc.)
>   We Chinese all want China to be a good and strong country, deep in our
>   soul. But, be realistic. Where is the money? How much money do you get
>   from a population that is 80% illiterate. 

Where is your suggestion, I never saw it. How much  money or  effort you
,as the 20%  of  those  are rich and  educated , contributed  to China.

>   Nationalism is usually the cause of war.

You  must talking about TI or US expansionlism.

>When people feel pride saying things like "We Chinese invent the paper,...compass
>...explosives". I will say "Shut up, go back to China and enjoy your life there."
>I like the Chinese culture. But there's nothing for me to be proud of China
>today.

I see! Power is what you are  proud of.

>one morning and say "I didn't really like what I've done. Let's go ten years
>backward." The bottom line is: China needs democracy. Are you dare to protest
>in Tineman Square again?

If "A Word from Chinese" can not convience you to do somthing for your
own motherland, I would used  the word from "AMERICAN".
"DON'T ASK WHAT YOUR COUNTRY CAN DO FOR YOU, ASK WHAT  YOU CAN DO
FOR YOUR COUNTRY" Just to  give you  a  lesson of "nationlism".

>|> "Drink Water, Think Source"
>The source is pretty bad now and I am now drinking other country's water.

While  most  chinese do  better than black, A-indians in  the US, the 
source of black and A-indians is the  worst in  the   world.
Do you  still think you are drinking your "US source" now!

You are really a ugly chinese!
From: joe@astro.as.utexas.edu (Joe Wang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Insensitive mainland chauvinist view. (Was: Who Cares 150 F-16s.)
Date: 13 Sep 92 18:44:37 GMT
Organization: McDonald Observatory, University of Texas @ Austin

In article <1992Sep11.154353.2277@news.acns.nwu.edu> usenet@news.acns.nwu.edu (Usenet on news.acns) writes:
>I quite agree with you. If I had power to curse people to death, 
>I would curse hundreds and thousands of times those evil-minded people 
>who promote wars.

Do you not see the contradiction in the statement you just made?

Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster)
Subject: Re: US Ironclads (Was: Re: US colonializing )
In-reply-to: hyde@cs.dal.ca's message of 9 Sep 92 21:38:12 GMT
Organization: pubs
	<ROTEN.92Aug31133031@CUBA.gsfc.nasa.gov>
	<1992Sep1.145046.5533@news2.cis.umn.edu> <1992Sep2.053823.28489@anasaz>
	<BuByro.2HA@cs.dal.ca>
Date: 10 Sep 92 11:27:51 CDT


The first important iron ship was, I believe, the Dreadnought (I could
have the name wrong).  It was an English ship of about 1870.  As
described in Scientific American a few years ago, this ship started the
19th century's version of an arms race: England's rivals immediately had
to equal or top it.  The original was never actually used in battle but
influenced the subsequent course of naval warfare.

Chris Brewster
cb@cray.com