From: kadie@herodotus.cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie)
Subject: [comp.admin.policy] Re: Display of nudes
Followup-To: alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk,comp.admin.policy
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 02:48:38 GMT

[A repost - Carl]

From: sullivan@cs.rose-hulman.edu (Fred Sullivan)
Newsgroups: comp.admin.policy
Subject: Re: Display of nudes
Date: 11 Oct 92 21:04:18

In article <roelle.718658120@uars_mag> roelle@uars_mag.jhuapl.edu (Curtis Roelle) writes:

   sullivan@cs.rose-hulman.edu (Fred Sullivan) writes:

   >1.  Our department has no policy against display of the kind of material in
   >question.

   Or, "Nobody wants to take responsibility for making decisions around here."

No.  We made a conscious decision that in general censorship is bad, that we
know of no reasonable objective standard which we could set, and that there
are other ways to deal the problem.

   >2.  I am not going to tell him that he has to remove the pictures.

   And, "I can't make decisions either."

Again, no.  In fact, it is much easier to impersonally write a rule saying
that display of nudes is disallowed than to tell a student to his face that you
personally disagree with his behavior.

   >3.  My personal opinion is that he is acting like a adolescent jerk.
							---------------
   You'd rather get personal and start calling him names.
   And show him who's boss.

Evidently I'm the kettle and you're the pot.  Read your replies to 1. and 2.
above, and tell me you're not getting personal.  In this case I believe that a
student appreciates an honestly expressed opinion, rather than being told to
obey a rule imposed from on high.

   >4.  He should spend some time thinking about the effect the material being
   >displayed might have on:
   >	parents of prospective students who are visiting the campus,
   >	female staff and faculty members who might feel that they are being
   >sexually harassed.

   But calling someone an adolescent jerk is not an overt form of harassment?
   This is a good way to sever communication and foster resentment.
   BTW, are you teacher or administrator? 

It is telling it like it is.  I am on good terms with all of the students
with whom I have had this conversation; communication has not been severed.
Again, if you want to foster resentment, tell someone: "Do this again and
your account will be canceled".  I have had to do that on a few occasions
for other reasons and I can tell you that resentment IS fostered.  To answer
your last question, I am a teacher.

   >A little over a year ago, I had this conversation with 4 students, and I
   >have not seen nudes displayed in our lab since that time.

   Are you and they still on speaking terms?  

Yes.  My relationship with all of them is quite good.

I'm not sure exactly what your point is.  Is it that I was too blunt in
expressing my opinion of the students' actions, or that I was wrong in my
assessment?  If it's the first, then I can only say that the students
involved are a better judge than you, and my relationship with them has not
suffered.  If the second, then I think you are wrong.  My point was to get
the students' attention, and to make them think about what they were doing.
I believe that I was successful, with the result that not only are nudes no
longer being displayed in our lab, but four students are a little perhaps a
little more mature, and more sensitive to the difficult issue of sexual
harassment.  I claim it is always more profitable to get someone to realize
that there is something wrong with their behavior and alter it themselves,
than to alter it by force.





--
Fred Sullivan                           5500 Wabash Avenue
Computer Science Department             Terre Haute, IN  47803
Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology     sullivan@cs.rose-hulman.edu
--
Carl Kadie -- kadie@cs.uiuc.edu -- University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Xref: sparky alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk:3145 comp.org.eff.talk:6367 comp.admin.policy:1287 alt.censorship:8005 soc.college:4238