From: "bill dehaan" <bill.dehaan@canrem.com>
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: microsoft employees
Date: 21 Jul 92 21:42:52 EST
Reply-To: "bill dehaan" <bill.dehaan@canrem.com>
Distribution: comp
Organization: Canada Remote Systems

In <1992Jul15.061138.1074@midway.uchicago.edu>, min-woong sohn writes:

MS>I agree on the condition that MS-employees do not do two things on the
MS>net:

MS>1) They should not promote their own products on the public forum funded by
MS>people's taxes.

Exactly what net do  you think you're on?  This is USENET, Min.  Despite
the number  of government  employees and  sites you  see, this  is NOT a
government funded net. Your university is, but Usenet is a bit more than
a plaything for universities.

MS>                 Recently I saw a post by a microsoft employee who said
MS>that one can upgrade to MSC for something like $139.  This was an information
MS>which was not solicited by any party in the thread and actually we were talki
MS>about their competitor's good upgrade pricing.  Well, if this person was
MS>not posting from microsoft.com, then we might think he was just trying to
MS>help.  But he is a salaried microsoft employee who benefit from selling
MS>the product he was passing the information on.  I think if he was trying to
MS>help he should use e-mail or some other medium.  Instead he chose a public
MS>forum to do that at the expense of Borland.  This leads to the second point.

Ah, it  was "at  the expense  of Borland".  Presumably Borland  has some
favoured status so that their products can be discussed on the net,  but
not Microsoft's?  Wrong. Anybody  can post  anything, anytime.  The only
restriction (by either convention or moderator) is that the post  should
be relevant  to the  group in  question. A  comment on  the pricing of a
C/C++ compiler in a comp.os.* newsgroup is certainly relevant.

MS>2) They should not **demote** their competitors products on the public forum.
MS>By demote, I mean saying things that will adversely affect people's choices
MS>on the product in question.  I have once seen a guy from microsoft saying
MS>he would want to see a **real good** product coming out of IBM when in the
MS>thread a person (not from IBM, of course) asked if MS has ever published
MS>a real good product (This might not be the exact transcription of what was
MS>really said).

So it's acceptable that people badmouth MS, saying that they can't write
code, but you don't think that MSers should be able to respond by asking
what people consider good code? I followed the thread in question,  Min.
Nobody from Microsoft  published anything out  of line (at  least that I
saw).

MS>               One might say, this is not a serious offense.  Granted.  But
MS>still that is only a tip of an iceberg.  I have seen many posts that conveys
MS>derogatory messages (very subtle but clear in intention and meaning conveyed)
MS>about os/2 and its doomed future.  One MS employee even went so far as to
MS>say that os/2 has no place on the desktop because Windows and NT will
MS>take care of the whole gamut from the low end all the way up.  This was poste
MS>on a thread (I believe) cross-posted to one of the os/2 related groups. I can
MS>dig it up if you want the evidence.  All these from microsoft employees do no
MS>sound good to me.  My opinion is that they are on the verge of abusing public
MS>forum to benefit their company and themselves.

You're right. People should only  use the net to ***demote***  their own
companies and themselves. Like you're doing.

MS>BTW, they all claim that they do not speak for microsoft.  I believe that the
MS>believe it.  But a Ford employee touting a Ford card in a automobile related
MS>news group does not sound like a unmotivated factual talk.

Or, maybe, they might  actually KNOW something about  Microsoft products
and be able to add something to the discussion?

MS>I want point out one last thing:  Have you ever seen an IBMer either
MS>defending os/2 or attacking windows or windows nt.

Speaking as someone  who just spent  two years at  IBM: yes. Constantly.
You want their names? If I were an IBMer, I'd be one of them.

MS>                                                    Also have you seen
MS>many people other than microsoft employees defending windows?

Constantly. I *am* one of them.

Min, I hope you don't take this  as a flame. It isn't intended as  such.
But I think you should learn  a LOT more about Usenet and  the behaviour
of newsgroups  before you  start casting  the type  of aspersions you've
been saying here.

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Deus Ex Machina                   | Internet:   bill.dehaan@rose.com
Software Consulting and Gator Pit | I'm a brain in a vat. What about you?
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