HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bhattach@quip.eecs.umich.edu (sayan bhattacharyya)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
Subject: Re: More on Urdu and the Nature of Knowing
Date: 23 Nov 92 19:26:44 GMT
Article-I.D.: zip.1992Nov23.192644.14424
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor, MI

In article <steele.722541110@chip.aem.umn.edu> steele@aem.umn.edu (Stephanie Steele) writes:

[lots of sensible stuff deleted]

>
>good, i'm glad. hopefully if rapu works out, more urdu poets will have a
>place where their particular needs and wants regarding urdu poetry can
>be fullfilled with the utmost attention and organization. rapu will
>be an excellent place for rappers to go and learn about urdu poetry,
>and in turn the urduphiles will be able to post in rap without
>comprimising the focus and discussion they desire from their own forum.
>
>steph     

I am afraid that this will be  only partially  true. Stephanie Steele
makes two predictions, only one of which will, I think, come about.

a) urduphiles will be able to post in rap without compromising their
   focus

Yes, this will happen, as to some extent is already happening now, even
before rapu has been formed officially. 

b) rapu will be an excellent place for rappers to go and learn about
   urdu poetry.

This unfortunately will never work out despite the best intentions of Stephanie
and like-minded rappers. The reason is very simple. Discussion in rapu 
will almost certainly be not in English, but in urdu ! So non-urdu-speaking
westerners will find these discussions inaccessible. 

To use the "Indian restaurant analogy" that someone posted earlier : yes,
the restaurant in Andhra Pradesh sells more authentic palak paneer than the
one in Broadway, but in order to order palak paneer, you must look through
the a la carte, and that will be in English for the Broadway restaurant,
while the one they hand you at that excellent dhaba in Andhra is likely to 
be in urdu or telugu ! Now tell me how you will order palak paneer ? :)

The moral of the story is that, "marginalised" groups are in a paradoxical
way much more privileged, culturally, than the "dominant" counterparts. I speak my 
language, and read poetry in my language, as a matter of course. 
Out of necessity, I had to learn the language of you, the "dominant"
Westerners, but this also made it possible for me to savour Western
poetry (and to participate in rec.arts.poems :)  Because the westerners on this
newsgroup did not have the existential necessity to learn about a
"marginalised" culture , they are doomed to their monocultural 
prison, while we, the "marginalised" , are free to roam and partake
of the best of both cultural worlds :)

-Sayan Bhattacharyya.




-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sayan Bhattacharyya          |   Colourless green ideas sleep furiously.
Artificial Intelligence Lab  |
The University of Michigan   |
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
Subject: NOTHING
From: keyser@ab.wvnet.edu
Date: 17 Nov 92 05:58:04 -0500
Organization: Alderson-Broaddus College



Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
From: PROWSE@Meena.CC.URegina.CA (Natalie)
Subject: parents get horny too / Natalie
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 21:12:11 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.24
Organization: University of Regina, Regina, Sask., Canada


	        parents get horny too.
		------------------------------------------------------------
		
		put a video on.
		keep the kids amused.
		i'm in the mood
		and so are you.
		in the bathroom
		with the water running
		to drown out the sounds
		of parents coming.
		
		in and out of the shower
		in the morning.
	        in and out. in the bedroom 
		in the afternoon.
		while they play upstairs.
		anytime, anywhere
		we can snatch a bit of fun.
		reduced to teenage illicitness
		we sneak explicit grownup sex.
		
		a knock at the door.
		childus-interruptus again.
		we'll be out in a minute
		we say.  hurried finishing.
		guilty giggling.
		try to be quiet.
		small feet shuffle
		impatiently, in the hall.
	
		i know one day
		recognition will dawn.
		i can already imagine
		the disdainful look
		on their faces. 
		they will turn to each other
		with a snort of disgust.
		(imagine your *parents* doing *that*)
		my kids will say: my god! 
		they were always. always. 
		always fucking!
	
	
		
			Natalie / Nov 19, 1992.
	

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(prowse@meena.cc.uregina.ca   |	"I wonder if you think about me,
		              |	 Once upon a time, in your wildest dreams."
			      |					-Moody Blues
From: alk4@ellis.uchicago.edu (Alex L. Karan)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
Subject: Artifacts
Date: 19 Nov 92 17:09:39 GMT
Article-I.D.: midway.1992Nov19.170939.24802
Reply-To: alk4@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations


Oh...its soooo easy.




Artifacts
---------
 

in a trash can 
near her bed

a wasted rose 
and a condom full of love



Alex L. Karan 
(does this even hold on its own?)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
From: vbp8723@zeus.tamu.edu (PEREZ, VERONICA BEATRIX)
Subject: Poem by Moongazer
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 19:39:00 GMT

**Personality Undermined**

Tell me...tell me what I was like.

 ou could have almost any statement
 ...have a double meaning.

One serious and one a little deeper.

"Tell me" urgency?
 ...tell me everything about yourself?
 ...describe your thoughts?
 ...let yourself go and be uninhibited?

You did...and it was real easy to talk to you.
 ...you didn't care what I had to talk about.
 ...you were always listening...

You opened up to me...
 ...you were willing to talk about anything.

I enjoyed that.

 ...and so he said.

Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
From: mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto)
Subject: Re: small request, and a Stansilaw Lem poem thrown in for fun
Organization: Yale CS Mail/News Gateway
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 20:09:49 GMT


Sheila writes:
 
                I see the eigenvalue in thine eye,
                I hear the tender tensor in thy sigh.
                Bernoulli would have been content to die
                Had he but known such a^2 cos (2phi) !
 
 
 
        (could someone please tell me how to pronouce the a-squared
        cosine-two-phi in order to get the pun? I have been blatantly,
        stupidly missing it these past few days.)
 
"A-squared cosine-two-phi" will scan properly, and will rhyme as
long as the "standard" American pronunciation of 'phi' is used.
However, REAL mathematicians, as well as Greeks will want to pronounce
it a 'fee.'
 
Now STOP posting stuff that makes me want to respond in this group.
I live in another group, and only come here to watch.
 
Mark
From: beh@kropotkin.gnu.ai.mit.edu (various Howellses)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
Subject: Till Death Us Do Part
Date: 15 Nov 92 21:31:47
Organization: Internet access via the Free Software Foundation
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: kropotkin.gnu.ai.mit.edu


I take you, my love,
Till Death Us Do Part,
till forever and always,
till never comes to rest
at our slightly open door.

I take you, my love,
till the darkness shades one of us,
covering that one in nothingness;
until the angels' wings
fold over and over 
and there are no more tomorrows.

My only regret, love,
is that it might be sooner than later,
that the little blue pills
might not stop the progressions,
that the tomorrows might be shortened
and next years never come;

that I won't see you
graying, slightly around the temples,
your face taking on new lines,
one by one by one, 
each a new part of your character.

Till Death us do part,
with his oily slick wings
and cold, fetid breath,
I take you, love,
but if you should decide
that the waiting is too long,
that the fear is too much,
then I will accept "Good-bye"
as my death.

--Nancy Howells
(beh@gnu.ai.mit.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
From: itzenhui@cs.uwp.edu (Steve Itzenhuiser)
Subject: On Thanksgiving
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Parkside
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 17:51:51 GMT


                       On Thanksgiving


Cold winds blow fallen leaves
Heavy clouds pass holding their snow
The sun sets early and from horizon to zenith
Spectral colors fade to starry night

Inside fires burn
Crackling warmth throughout the house
Decored in fest of giving thanks
And rolls of holiday laughter

Grandpa on the couch
Ignoring grandma and falling asleep
Mom and dad in the kitchen
Hors d'oeurves and drinks for all

The children still play
Though no longer kids
Remember, too, when the
Youngest infantly cried

Aunts, uncles, cousins, friends
Eat, drink, and feast
Helping upon helping
Filling the house with voice

Once again all recall
The family
And outside, by house and stars
The night is warmed for a day




===============
c&c appreciated
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
From: moh2@quads.uchicago.edu (Kateri/Mary Anne)
Subject: A Delany fragment...
Reply-To: moh2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 15:26:36 GMT


	...I looked out the window at walls of moonlit cloud rising
beside us, as though we were at the bottom of some gray and ivory
canyon, hung above the moon-smashed sea....

					 - Samuel R. Delany, 
					_The Motion of Light on Water_


-- 
More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads.  One
path leads to despair and utter hopelessness.  The other to total
extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly.
						 - Woody Allen
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
From: marek@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Marek Lugowski)
Subject: partial differential equations / Marie Coffin
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 00:27:47 GMT


	partial differential equations
	------------------------------------------------------------
	
	if only he
	if only he
	if only he equated
	sex with love
	
	then life would be
	then life would be
	then life would be the epitome
	of wonderful wonderful life
	because then
	
	whenever he said
	whenever he said
	whenever he said let's go to bed
	i want to fuck, i'd know
	
	i'd know i'd know
	once and for all i'd know
	that he was really saying
	really saying 
	honey i love you
	honey i love you
	honey i will be true
	
	but he's not.
	boo hoo.


Marie Coffin
November 19, 1992

Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
From: sp15@quads.uchicago.edu (steven  paul)
Subject: "The Tempest"
Reply-To: sp15@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 03:17:53 GMT

     THE TEMPEST
     By Steven E. Paul

  The storm builds
  On her calm waters...

  Deep waves crash
  Her inticing shore...

  Forlorn gusts wander
  Her thirsty sands...

  A stray gull coos
  For his love...

  The night blankets
  The embracing lovers...

  The tempest sounds
  His carnal blast...

-- 
"HOMO SUM; HUMANI NIHIL A ME ALIENUM PUTO..."  Steven E. Paul <sp15@midway.uchicago.edu>  Send lots of E-mail!
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
Organization: University of Maine System
Date: Monday, 23 Nov 1992 00:33:34 EST
From: <SALIMM@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
Subject: Re: Turtles in the Ganges (Stereotypical Western tastelessness)
 <1992Nov21.181756.5839@zip.eecs.umich.edu>

I agree with Sayan on his comments with regard to "Turtles in the
Ganges."

Tell me seriously, now, is that a poem? Or is it another attempt
(quite like City of Joy) to expose momentarily and out of context
the culture that is India? Perhaps there should be another poem
entitled: Peacocks in July or some such...to counter  this.....

Salim Mohammed.
From: steele@aem.umn.edu (Stephanie Steele)
Subject: Re: Poetry Readings - are they worth it?
Organization: University of Minnesota
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 18:48:26 GMT

tpl@eng.cam.ac.uk (Tim Love) writes:

>We have quite a few Poetry Readings in Cambridge. Last year Holub
>read but I didn't go. I've come to avoid lesser poets too -- I'd 
>rather buy the book. In spring, Les Murray is visiting. Should I go, 
>if only to support the cause?

>Even the performance poets I've heard soon get tedious. Maybe the 
>problem is that I take too long to appreciate poems. Yet I like 
>readings where many poets are presenting their stuff. 

>Am I missing out? Does anyone like poetry readings?

tim- i rarely go to poetry readings by people i haven't already
read. for me, it's similar to reading a book and then going and
seeing the movie of the book. i always read the book *first* and
then go see the movie. Why? because i think books make us work
harder, think harder, and get more actively involved, which in
turn allows us to 'get to know' the  work in a more profound way

with poetry in particular, i believe that poetry is as much a
'visual' art as it is (can be) an oral art. some poems really
come to life, even take on a different life, when read aloud.
some poets are gifted readers and extremely entertaining to watch/
listen to. but i think all poems need to be read and the opportunity
to listen to poems is always a nice way to get to know a poet and
their work in an 'icing-on-the-cake' kind of way.

i think a lot of poets read and go to readings to get out of the
solitude of their studies, which is also important too. and there
is always the bad coffee, cheap wine and cookies to consider as
well....

sls
--

=======================================================================
			   Stephanie Steele
			steele@chip.aem.umn.edu
From: bunny@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Marsh)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
Subject: Poem - Pear
Keywords: 42
Date: 17 Nov 92 23:29:22 GMT
Organization: CS Dept, Ball St U, Muncie, Indiana


PEAR

The pear trees ripen nicely in the orchard
bathed in sugared winds and buffeted by
crystal in its liquid form, impervious
to dwindling wood and too-bright lights
the cities' legacy.

A bottle caps a flower, traps its tiny
and elusive fragrance as it grows to follow
as the monks do all its bitters in a fine
and also crystal sweet liqueur to celebrate
in winter summer.

One dewdrop of this pinkish essence gives
the drinker shades of subtle meaning and
evokes God's breath, distilled, divine
elixir in a golden haze its swell subsiding,
meager fullness;

and the drinker bows her head to thoughts
made real of time and timeless night
grown giddy as the fruit grew trapped within
and stirs the pear-man flown majestic
in his not-robes.

-Tracy Flynn-Marsh
From: marek@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Marek Lugowski)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
Subject: status of rec.arts.poems.urdu as of 16 November / Marek
Date: 16 Nov 92 23:13:46 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.1992Nov16.231346.16969
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.

For those who do not scan news.announce.newgroups (a good idea because
that is where all RFD's, CFV's and RESULTS are posted), Dave Lawrence
the moderator issued this message today, of interest to rap readers:

"rec.arts.poems.urdu was initially scheduled to be created today.
Its creation is being delayed while the ballots are examined to
determine that all yes and no votes were correctly counted.

At this time the passing vote of 302 yes to 145 no has _not_ been
rejected.  Note that a proposal needs to have both 100 more yes than
no votes and two thirds of the total votes be yes in order for it to
pass.

The ballots as mailed to me by the proposer, ali@simdiv1.mentorg.com
(Aliasgar Haveliwala), are available on ftp.uu.net in the directory
/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/votes/rec.arts.poems.urdu.  They were
apparently split on uneven message boundaries; I will try to
reconstruct them in the appropriate whole message order as best as I
can.  The file is roughly 500k.

Observers will see that I personally voted against the group.  I did
so on the basis of its name.  Regardless, this ballot examination will
be based solely on what messages were sent, and people who question my
impartiality or fairness are free to examine the ballots themselves."
From: zeleny@husc10.harvard.edu (Michael Zeleny)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
Subject: Re: Another version of "artifacts" / Natalie
Date: 22 Nov 92 05:43:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc3.1992Nov22.004301.17681
Organization: The Phallogocentric Cabal

In article <1992Nov21.194216.1272792@sue.cc.uregina.ca>
PROWSE@Meena.CC.URegina.CA (Natalie) writes:


> alk4@ellis.uchicago.edu (Alex L. Karan) writes:

ALK:
>>Artifacts
>>---------
>> 
>>
>>in a trash can 
>>near her bed
>>
>>a wasted rose 
>>and a condom full of love

A:
>I won't jump into the fray, in the usual way, instead, I offer this 
>alternative set of images:
>(Thanks for the inspiration, Alex :-)
>
>		more artifacts...
>		-------------------------------------------------------------
>		
>		on a table 
>		near her bed
>
>		stands a bud vase
>		which contains a rose
>		thirstily drinking itself
>		into full bloom.
>
>		in the trashcan
>		near her bed
>
>		rest six spent, 
>		contented condoms.
>
>		
>			-Natalie (I like verbs :-) / November 21, 1992

You also like wishful thinking and the pathetic fallacy.

>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>(prowse@meena.cc.uregina.ca   |	"I wonder if you think about me,
>		              |	 Once upon a time, in your wildest dreams."
>			      |					-Moody Blues

Hi there, Phil.  Give hell to those douchebags for me!

cordially,
mikhail zeleny@husc.harvard.edu
"Le cul des femmes est monotone comme l'esprit des hommes."
From: bunny@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Marsh)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
Subject: Poem - Postulant
Date: 23 Nov 92 02:52:10 GMT
Organization: CS Dept, Ball St U, Muncie, Indiana


POSTULANT

Jenny hugged her robes about her,
warmth against the rifling winds...
she shrugged into an absent smile
and fed her silky curls to her hood.

Thinking to the day before she stopped,
and blushed a winsome rose,
and laughed aloud acknowledgement
of her embarrassed escapades.

She wore a silk dress to the party,
thought of self no more than stranger
peeking at the grown-ups' play --
she'd never see these revelers again.

Or so she thought.

A vision swept her through the crowd
to dance until her eyes were shaken...
tall, and taller, blackest hair
and lips that drank her toast.

She swirled in a flash of satin
melting from his dark and flashing eyes
and didn't feel the floor again until
the morning shoved it at her toes.

A golden girl, and made for fun;
she shook her head, disdain...and duty.
That could never be displaced
for anything...or anyone.

Or so it seemed.

Humbled, Jenny looked around herself
at plain and unadorned white walls
and wondered why she'd never doubted,
always knew her place was here.

Self-mockery was in her smile,
an unassuming bitter hint that
life held more than she had seen
wrapped in the memory of his eyes.

Isabeau.  And French, at that!
Her arms ascended (traitors!), flew,
remembered how it felt to hold a god
with mortal heart professing love.

And so it goes.

Vespers before breakfast in her cotton
(quite unlike the night before)
and a course around the quadrant
to begin a new and sinless day.


-Tracy Flynn-Marsh
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
Subject: Re: Mr. Nikolayev
From: nikolay@husc10.harvard.edu (Philip Nikolayev)
Date: 20 Nov 92 13:28:43
Organization: The Kremlin Wall of Harvard
In-reply-to: jjwebb@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us's message of Thu, 19 Nov 92 12:39:54 PST

jjwebb@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us writes:

> And we have our answer now Philip ... thanks. To quote my wife,
> "only a fool would mistake this for a cesspool."

>               JJWebb

Pretty pathetic, JJ. Try harder if you must.

Philip
From: alk4@ellis.uchicago.edu (Alex L. Karan)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
Subject: In Seen
Date: 23 Nov 92 19:31:49 GMT
Reply-To: alk4@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

While little trained monkeys
beat off tin snare drums, saying look at me look at me look at me,
this.


In Seen
--------



Something in my eye
itches,
maybe the cat

across the room
trying to scratch my eyes out
of his.


Alex L. Karan
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
From: marek@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Marek Lugowski)
Subject: "under my left armpit..." / Halina Poswiatowska / trnas: Marek
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 18:22:32 GMT

Halina Poswiatowska's (Marek #39). (from the set: 40 translations, available
on request.  Just felt like putting this one up now.  Pls. suggest away.)

English draft translation:
 
		untitled ("under my left armpit..."), #39
		(p. 97 of _Wiersze wybrane_, 1989)
		-----------------------------------------------------------
		 
		under my left armpit
		in a warm nest
		lives the bird of heart
		beats the bird of heart
		with strangled wings
		 
		its down torn out
		lives on the wind
		 
		the king liked to put his head
		in the warm scentful nest
		under my left armpit
		for the king feared death
		 
		she stood outside
		collecting torn-out feathers
		with cold hand
		she put the wind to sleep

 
			Halina Poswiatowska, Polish, 1960s,
			translated from Polish by
 
			Marek Lugowski
			28 November 1990
			Cincinnati

 
	Polish original (c) 1975 Wydawnictwo Literackie, Krakow, Poland:
		untitled ("pod moja lewa pacha...")
		(p. 97 of _Wiersze wybrane_, 1989)
		-----------------------------------------------------------
		 
		pod moja lewa pacha
		w cieplym gniezdzie
		zyje ptak serca
		bije ptak serca
		zdlawionymi skrzydlami
		 
		pierze wydarte
		w wietrze mieszka
		 
		krol lubil chowac glowe
		w cieple pachnace gniazdo
		pod moja lewa pacha
		bowiem krol bal sie smierci
		 
		ona stala na zewnatrz
		zgarniala wydarte piora
		zimna reka
		usypiala wiatr

		 
			Halina Poswiatowska, Polish, 1960s.
From: bzahniser@hayes.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
Subject: Synopsis
Date: 23 Nov 92 17:26:32 EDT
Organization: Hayes Microcomputer Products, Norcross, GA

   A brief synopsis
   ----------------
 
   Moving away slowly
   as if carried by a powerful
   but languid river:
   friends
   family
   favorite television programs
   sons, daughters
   grandchildren
   presidents
   air
   light.

Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
From: marek@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Marek Lugowski)
Subject: Re:.sig typo? / Marek (was: constr. crit. for Doug and Donosauria)
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 20:34:30 GMT

>>> -- 
>>> *************************************************************************
>>> "Insufficient facts always invites danger, Captain."- Spock in Space Seed
>>> 	Marg Petersen	petersm@jacobs.cs.orst.edu
>>> *************************************************************************
>>
>>Methinks there's a typo in this sig.
>
>Nope.  I have watched and listened to this episode *many* times and this
>is absolutely what was said.  I know the grammar is incorrect (I am, or
>was, an English teacher), but I transcribed it as it is as my yielding
>to reality.  (I don't know if the original error was on the part of the
>writer or Nimoy.)

Um.  I am not a fan of Star Trek, but just in case the alledged flaw is
verb/subject disagreement in the quotation, couldn't one interpret
"insufficient facts" as a noun plural in construction but singular in use?
This would then not be errnoenous at use with "is".  After all,
"insufficient facts" might be a particular response from the computer and
thus an ominous condition or outcome, a singular entity.  Spock appears to
be refering to a verdict rendered by a machine or a process, not to some
collection or all facts that are insufficient as such.  Indeed, it appears
to be in said in wry humor.  (Could the show be funnier than its adherents? :))

If there is a typo, then it might be the absence of quotes around
insuffienct facts, but that borders on pedantry and in any case, Marg is
transcribing acted out theatre.

				-- Marek