From: pjau@arbw3.kf.tu-berlin.de (Pieter Unema)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.netherlands
Subject: windmills and bosoms
Date: 9 Oct 92 14:10:23 GMT
Organization: ZRZ/TU-Berlin

In article <Bvtpxo.Mo@apollo.hp.com> nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson)  
writes:
>   I've been to almost every major city in the world and Amsterdam
>   is actually one of the most charming cities I've been to; the 
>   people are friendly; they have done an extraordinary job of
>   preventing the steel-and-glass architectural disease that has
>   destroyed many other cities; the city is very "international"
>   and very walkable, and has a good public transit system, and
>   is full of history and I hope to return there someday (and any-
>   one who knows me knows how rare it is for me to express a
>   desire to go to ANY city!)   But after returning home, an
>   American friend of mine with two children in grade school 
>   asked me if I thought she and her family would like to visit
>   Amsterdam.  I had to tell her, "yes, but there's a few things
>   you should be prepared for . . .".
> 
>   In light of all this I'm surprised at the topic here.  I
>   would have guessed (wrongly) from what I saw in Amsterdam 
>   that with sexually explicit images apparently being old-hat
>   among the Dutch that the fascination or preoccupation with
>   bare breasts displayed by the original poster would be daily
>   satisfied and so wouldn't exist.  On the other hand I'm 
>   surprised at the reaction as well, since it suggests a
>   prudishness that is also belied by the reality of Amsterdam.
> 
>   Is this another one of those "cultural contradictions" on
>   sexuality that seems so common in major cultures?  For instance
>   the way communal bathing was accepted for centuries in Japan 
>   but pubic hair isn't allowed in skin magazines?  Or the way
>   nudity and toplessness is banned in most public places in the
>   US but sex is used to sell every product there is here?

stereotypical.

I m not sure that you ve been looking around very carefully. 
What you forgot to mention is the fact that all the dutch are
running around on wooden shoes, that they live in windmills, and 
that when santa claus is around, the wooden shoes are put on the
dike while sitting next to them with their thumb in a hole. Around
christmas they sit by the fire smoking marihuana from clay pipes ...

Of course the Dutch are prudish! Just like _every_ other people.
There is supposed to have been a sexual revolution during the late
sixties, but in reality it was pure fiction. The only result was
a booming pornographical industry, but sexism is still alive and kicking...
Womens lib hasn t changed that either. Things are just the same old
way as for sexism, sexual discrimination, and discrimination in general.

But on the other hand: couldn t it just be, that sex is much more
fun when it s all just a tiny bit secretive?

Although the initial request for experience with the female bosom was
abundantly replied to, nobody has until now dared to take the question
seriously. I don t either, but I m going to be the first to reply:

             female breasts:
              I like them....


But they don t substitute the bearer. 


I realize thet it s very hard to avoid criticism about sexist remarks, when
trying to talk about woman instead of with them. 


Bye,

Pieter Unema,
just about to smoke marihuana from a clay pipe.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.netherlands