HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jkp@cs.HUT.FI (Jyrki Kuoppala)
Subject: Re: Copyright on USENET/Internet -- ASCP-type enforcement issues..
Keywords: Digital Signature ASCP Copyright Doom Gloom Net-Armageddon
Reply-To: jkp@cs.HUT.FI (Jyrki Kuoppala)
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 09:49:33 GMT

In article <lb5u98INNbra@tokio.cs.utexas.edu>, jonabbey@cs (Jonathan David Abbey) writes:
>The recent Scientific American article on digital signature systems
>lays out an architecture that seems powerful enough to serve as the
>foundation of an effective information society.
>
>But to be effective, there really would have to be a requirement that
>all persons connected to the net abide by said digital signature /
>copyright authentication system, such that they will not be given
>access to the network unless they are able to demonstrate that there
>is the presence of (Pet Shop Boys, Opportunities) a copyright-honoring
>mechanism in the system.  Even then, it will be easy to digitize a CD or
>other music source and present it to the net as original material, or
>to take copyrighted material from the net, run it through an ADC/DAC
>pair and resubmit it likewise.

You are calling for totalitarian control and laws which don't fit at
all in the new world of networks.  Please don't.

>Is it simply an intractable problem in a free society?  

I would like the society to remain free instead of forcing everyone to
use Big Brother-approved tools, badges, labels etc.

Just say No to mandatory ID's.

> I would love to hear some good discussion on this.

Just if you happen to get your kicks by breaking the current copyright
laws (or perhaps it's fair use, dunno) and announcing it in the net it
doesn't mean that we all should call for an invasion of law
enforcement or an army to the Internet.  How about we just put the
dogs after you instead?

>There is
>already software available for the Sun that supports real time talk
>over an IP network, using a microphone on each end.  Will the net
>survive such abuse? 8-)  Sure, it's not like I'm downloading the
>X distribution, but..

Internet will replace the telephone networks and the PTT's and The
Telephone Companies won't be happy about this.  Imminent death of the
net predicted.

//Jyrki
Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk
From: sean@sdg.dra.com
Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk
Subject: GPO Federal Bulletin Board
Date: 9 Sep 92 13:30:21 CDT
Organization: Data Research Associates, St. Louis MO

The Government Printing Office now has a public bulletin board which gives
"inexpensive" access to some federal data.  The GPO Federal Bulletin Board
currently has files from the Department of State, Energy, and the Environmental
Protection Agency.

The average file costs less than $10 to download (plus telecommunication
costs), and you require a GPO Deposit Account to download most files
(MasterCard, VISA, and money accepted).  The BBS phone number is (202) 512-1387.

A copy of the GPO press release, and NEWUSER documentation are also available
for anonymous FTP (using FTP, login as "anonymous", enter your e-mail address
as the password) from drgate.dra.com [192.65.218.27] in /pub/gpo.
-- 
Sean Donelan, Data Research Associates, Inc, St. Louis, MO
Domain: sean@sdg.dra.com, Voice: (Work) +1 314-432-1100
Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk
From: pjs269@tijc02.uucp (Paul Schmidt)
Subject: Re: taxes, theft, police, etc.
Organization: Advocates for Self-Government - Davy Crockett Chapter
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 92 16:38:29 GMT

pjs269@tijc02.uucp (Paul Schmidt) writes:
: ian@airs.com (Ian Lance Taylor) writes:
: : pjs269@tijc02.uucp (Paul Schmidt) writes:
: : 
: : >The
: : >great depression of the 1930s happened after the U.S. government removed
: : >the dollar from the gold standard.
: : 
: : That is not the usual view.  The Great Depression is normally
: : considered to have started in 1929.  Roosevelt took the U.S. off the
: : gold standard in 1933.  England and some other European countries had
: : already abandoned the gold standard, in 1931.
: : 
: Sorry.  I did this from memory.  Thanks for correcting me.  Sometime about 
: 15 years before the depression, the U.S. Government did something major.
: I thought I remembered it as taking the currency off the gold standard.
: It evidently was something else.  When I get a chance I will look it up,
: or maybe you know what I am talking about.

The event that I was thinking of was the formation of the Federal
Reserve System in 1913.  This led to monetary policies that contributed
to the depression and the length of the depression.  Sorry for the
mistake.  I did not mean to misinform anyone as to the event.
-- 
Paul Schmidt: Advocates for Self-Government, Davy Crockett Chapter President
706 Judith Drive, Johnson City, TN 37604, (615)283-0084, uunet!tijc02!pjs269
"Freedom seems to have unleashed the  creative energies of the people -- and
leads to ever higher levels of income and social progress."  --  U.N. report
From: fuegi@CS.ColoState.EDU (Aaron D. Fuegi)
Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk
Subject: Total erasure of hard drive data??
Date: 15 Sep 92 15:41:06 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department


	I am wondering about a technical issue relative to erasing data from a
hard drive.  I am especially interested in this issue on the Mac and wish to 
know if it is possible to indelibly erase some data from a hard drive so 
that it will no longer be accessible by ANY means whatsoever(physical, 
electronic, whatever).  Would just using Norton utilities erase functions be 
enough to achieve this or would it still be possible to access the data if you 
had the means and time to do it?

	Please respond via EMAIL to FUEGI@CS.COLOSTATE.EDU.

				Aaron Fuegi
Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk
From: NEWSDAY1@delphi.com
Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk
Subject: Re: Wanna See Something Really Scary?
Date: 15 Sep 92 10:03:49 GMT
Organization: EFF mail-news gateway
Originator: daemon@eff.org

It seems to me that calls for FBI action against individuals who post
obscene/racist messages are well-intentioned but misguided.
    
Personally, the only thing I dislike more than obscene/racist speech is
the attempt to supress such speech by writing codes specifying
"political correctness" or by making other attempts to legislate what
is or isn't appropriate. Fortunately, none of those attempts have been 
successful in the long run, what with speech being protected by the First 
Amendment.
   
In fact, a recent "hate speech" decision by the conservative 
Supreme Court recently provided the most sweeping protection ever to 
so-called offensive speech. As for FCC jurisdiction, I don't believe
the Internet qualifies for FCC regulation in the same way that
broadcast radio and television do, since broadcast regulation is based
on the principle of public allocation and oversight of limited spectrum 
resources.
    
The fact is that we have more than a handful of individuals in this
country who choose to be bigoted and/or obscene, and the price we
pay for our own freedom to speak is that we must suffer their free
speech.
    
Myself, I wouldn't have it any other way.
 
Evan Rudowski
NEWSDAY1@DELPHI.COM
Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk
From: greg@gallifrey.ucs.uoknor.edu (Greg Trotter)
Subject: Re: Wanna See Something Really Scary?
Originator: usenet@midway.ecn.uoknor.edu
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 11:25:25 GMT
Organization: A Planet Of His Own

In article <BuLq14.Lv7@news.cso.uiuc.edu> tinsel@uiuc.edu writes:
>farbrent!ajr3@ms.uky.edu writes:
>> Dear Senator,
>
>> This letter is to advise you of the violations that have taken place  
>> on the Internet (an international computer network for academic,  
>> research and government institutions). Messages posted from within  
>> the United  States are in direct violation of a variety of Federal  
>> laws and  regulations, beginning with the FCC regulations regarding  
>> the use of  profanity, and extending through total disregard to the  
>> Civil Rights  Amendment. Further, the forged messages were designed  
>> to inflame and  incite specific minorities. The flood of responses  
>> that followed these  outrageous messages wasted an estimated  
>> thousands of dollars in  taxpayer funds and rendered many boards on  
>> the Internet inoperable. 
>
>I doubt the Civil Rights Amendment can actually be applied. 

I agree.

There is no Civil Rights Amendment in the U.S.

						- greg



-- 
Greg Trotter
Norman, Oklahoma
Internet: greg@gallifrey.ucs.uoknor.edu
Fidonet: 1:147/63       TrekNet: 87:6012/8009
Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk
From: jdailey@dadd.ti.com (Jim Dailey)
Subject: Re: Wayne State University's Bad Behavior C
Reply-To: jdailey@dadd.ti.com
Organization: Design Automaton Div., Texas Instruments, Inc.
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 19:23:33 GMT

delledg@jake.cc.wayne.edu (De Vaughn Elledge) writes:
>jp@tygra.Michigan.COM (John Palmer) writes:
>>delledg@jake.cc.wayne.edu (De Vaughn Elledge) writes:
>>"
>>"Wes, You took the words staight out of my mouth. If you abuse a
>>"priviledge and it is taken away by *due process* you almost have to 
>>"expect a miracle to get them back. Assuming that the event was handled 
>>"by the due process umbrella. According to the WSU department that
>>"handled the case (SECURITY OFFICE) the user had to be really screwing up
>>"and didn't take their warnings seriously. 
>>"
>>
>>There was never any due process in the case at all. The student in 
>>question had her academic performance hurt by her lack of access to 
>>the facilities. Again, like I said: There was no due process nor is
>>there a policy in place for any kind of due process. The C&IT has
>>been making excuses for years regarding this one. (The case goes 
>>back about 9 years).
>
> Don't lie John.....we both know there was due process.

Could you provide some substance, please, De Vaughn?
---
Jim  jdailey@dadd.ti.com
   TI pays absolutely no attention to me or my opinions; therefore,
   the foregoing posting cannot possibly represent TI's viewpoint.
From: max@underg.UUCP (Max Cray)
Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk
Subject: Re: EFF in Austin?
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 92 03:06:54 EDT
Organization: Underground Computing Foundation

Cherie.Ballard@f101.n382.z1.fidonet.org (Cherie Ballard) writes:

> I vaguely remember a message about a local chapter of EFF in Austin.  Please
> let me know who to contact regarding this chapter, if you know who he/she is
> -- Thanks!  I'm one of the sysops of a BBS for Austin area attorneys.  We (th
> BBS) are interested in getting involved.  Also, Gregg Perry and myself (the
> sysops of ALIAS) are spearheading a Computers and the Law section of the
> Travis County Bar Association and we'd like to talk to folks about possible
> speakers for our meetings (once we get off and running).  We think that the
> members of the legal profession need to know more about the issues EFF are
> involved in and we would like to be part of getting the word out.  

Sure is one. In fact it has its own newsgroup. Subscribe to: austin.eff.
There are monthly meetings and lots of other good stuff. I don't think
there are any more t-shirts though...


                                          -= Max =-
...!uunet!underg!max
...!cactus.org!underg!max
From: david.brooks@cutting.hou.tx.us (David Brooks)
Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk
Subject: Re: Want _Your_ Blood to
Date: 4 Sep 92 14:43:00 GMT
Reply-To: david.brooks@cutting.hou.tx.us (David Brooks)
Organization: The Cutting Edge - Houston, TX - 713-466-1525

GW> >
GW> >"America!  Love it or leave it, hippie scum!"

GW> It's not just America you don't like, it's all the nations of the world.
GW> Governments are needed in a world of over 4 billion people and somebody
GW> has to pay for them. The "Payment out of honesty" will havwe 10% of the
GW> people paying all the bills and government severely underfunded.

   What you are saying, in effect, is: given a choice, people will not
   support their government. I would think that in itself would constitute
   more than enough reason to close them all down. Any "service" currently
   provided by the government could also be performed by a free economy,
   and probably at a decent profit too. Your "cops and roads" argument
   just dosn't hold any water!

GW> Gary J. Weiner  | Brookhaven National Laboratories  | "The killer awoke
GW> PO BOX 715      | National Synchrotron Light Source |  before dawn...
GW> Upton,NY 11973  |    weiner@bnlls1.nsls.bnl.gov     |  he put his boots
GW> on..."

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* David Brooks                      * I own the business, so it         *
* Consider It Done                  *    damned well better agree       *
* Business & Computer Services      *       with my opinion!            *
* Seabrook, TX                      *                                   *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

 * Q-Blue v0.7 [NR] *
From: mc/G=Brad/S=Hicks/OU=0205925@mhs.attmail.com
Subject: "Phone Hackers"
Originator: daemon@eff.org
Organization: EFF mail-news gateway
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 18:41:18 GMT

Date: 9/8/92    2:09 PM
Subj: "Phone Hackers"
 
In RISKS Forum Digest volume 13 number 78, there's an article excerpted
from the Detroit Free Press for 1 Sep 92, "Phone Hackers" by David
Ashenfelter.  In it he cites "John Haugh, a Portland, Ore., a
telecommunications expert" as his source for the following paragraph:
 
> Telecommunications expert Haugh, whose company interviewed more than 400
> toll-fraud victims or near victims, said the most sinister telephone
hackers
> break into a phone system and set up hidden mailboxes, then sell them to
> drug, prostitution and child pornography rings that want to make free
calls
> that are hard to trace.
 
Now, I've heard it alleged before that shoulder-surfers and other carders
were selling long distance codes to drug dealers.  But this is the first
time I've heard anybody say that there was a phreaker/child pornography
link.  And honestly, I'm suspicious, for a couple of reasons that I'll go
into if anybody cares (they're mostly off-topic).  Has anybody seen any
indictments or other evidence that would back up Haugh's claim?
 
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------
 J. Brad Hicks                 | Poor is the man whose pleasures depend
 mhs!mc!Brad_Hicks@attmail.com | on the permission of another.
From: peercy@crhc.uiuc.edu (Mike Peercy)
Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk
Subject: Re: taxes, theft, police, etc.
Date: 8 Sep 1992 15:37:30 -0500
Organization: Center for Reliable and High-Performance Computing, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Distribution: inet
NNTP-Posting-Host: dopey.crhc.uiuc.edu

pjs269@tijc02.uucp (Paul Schmidt) writes:
| pjs269@tijc02.uucp (Paul Schmidt) writes:
| : ian@airs.com (Ian Lance Taylor) writes:
| : : pjs269@tijc02.uucp (Paul Schmidt) writes:
| : : 
| : : >The
| : : >great depression of the 1930s happened after the U.S. government removed
| : : >the dollar from the gold standard.
| : : 
| : : That is not the usual view.  The Great Depression is normally
| : : considered to have started in 1929.  Roosevelt took the U.S. off the
| : : gold standard in 1933.  England and some other European countries had
| : : already abandoned the gold standard, in 1931.
| : : 
| : Sorry.  I did this from memory.  Thanks for correcting me.  Sometime about 
| : 15 years before the depression, the U.S. Government did something major.
| : I thought I remembered it as taking the currency off the gold standard.
| : It evidently was something else.  When I get a chance I will look it up,
| : or maybe you know what I am talking about.

| The event that I was thinking of was the formation of the Federal
| Reserve System in 1913.  This led to monetary policies that contributed
| to the depression and the length of the depression.  Sorry for the
| mistake.  I did not mean to misinform anyone as to the event.

Indeed.  This was the main step in going off the gold standard. 
After all, the point behind the Federal Reserve was the flexibility
of currency and credit--a soft-money standard.  (Well, that was the
stated point.  The real point was a bunch of big fat bankers wanted
the government to make money more predictable so the bankers could
keep and make more of it more securely.)

The (ab)use of the Fed came after World War I.  Germany, France, and
Britain had inflated their currencies tremendously to pay for the War.
At its end, they tried to return to the gold standard at the prewar
rates.  The US having the only correctly valued currency remaining,
the dollar became the standard on which the pound was based, and the
pound became the standard on which the franc and mark were based.

Now Britain was well on her way to the socialist state and could not
politically afford to reduce her money supply to the parity dictated
by the monetary agreements (something like $4.87/lb when it should
have been revalued at $3.50 or so).  To hide this fact, Britain
got the US to inflate her own money to prevent the drain of gold
and dollars from Britain.

Thus the dollar was quite overvalued relative to US gold reserves
before gold payments were suspended in 1933.  If the US was on a gold
standard in the 20's, it was by name only.

Mike Peercy
peercy@crhc.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk
From: rdippold@qualcom.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold)
Subject: Re: Want _Your_ Blood to Boil too?
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 01:09:36 GMT

Brian.Lane@p0.f162.n138.z1.fidonet.org (Brian Lane) writes:
>In a message of 28 Aug 92  23:22:55, Ron Dippold wrote:
>RD> >Why can't I just walk into your house, put a gun in your face, and take
>RD> what
>RD> >I like with impunity, because tax dollars pay for police to protect you.
>RD> 
>RD> Law enforcement!  One of the few legitimate functions of government,
>RD> but nothing that needs income tax for funding.  

>  And what's law enforcement going to do about this problem?  Clean up the mess AFTER he shoots you!  LA showed that people have to trust in themselves, not in some large government that'll tuck 'em into bed every night.

Good point - Law enforcement goes hand in hand with the second
ammendment.  The law enforcement is to catch the guy after he kills
you.  The 2nd ammendment is to let you defend yourself while he's
there... 
-- 
Quinine is the bark of a tree; canine is the bark of a dog.
From: trev@hubcap.clemson.edu (Trevor Bauknight)
Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk
Subject: Saw the discussion on long-distance...here's a question...
Date: 11 Sep 92 06:25:18 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Jes Grew Carriers -- Metaphysical Bunko Squad

With all the talk of whether various LD carriers are socially responsible,
I want to ask why people feel that it's necessary to even *have* a
preferred LD carrier.  I understand that it's a matter of convenience
when dialing, but it's not much trouble, really, just using the codes.
Of course, I realize that one needs to use *some* LD carrier to make 
a LD call, so it is a good idea to know which ones don't offend your 
ideology or whatever.  It gives me a certain small amount of satisfaction 
having no preferred carrier, just because.  And I don't have problems 
with being jerked around by my LD carrier.  Of course, I live by myself 
and make maybe two LD calls per month, so it's pretty much a matter of my 
being obstinate...it doesn't really affect my life in any significant way.
I just wondered if anyone thinks it's a bad idea not to have a preferred
LD carrier.

Along these lines, is there any listing of LD carriers across the country
which gives their code, maybe a contact number and a description of the
areas each serves?  Thanks in advance!
 
Trevor Bauknight         trev@hubcap.clemson.edu    ...gatech!hubcap!trev
 
                                                     +-----------+
                                                     | _> ###    |
                  Quis separabit?                    |     |     |
                                                     +-----------+
From: Brian.Schuth@f346.n101.z1.fidonet.org (Brian Schuth)
Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk
Subject: Ticketmaster privacy
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 11:40:00 PST
Organization: FidoNet node 1:101/346 - Beta BBS, Newton MA

For all you privacy paranoiacs out there (myself included)...

The other day I was ordering tickets from Ticketmaster.  After taking my order, my address, my phone number, and my credit card number (my privacy-violation-ticker edging toward the red already, but hey, what could I do?), they proceeded to ask me a variety of questions, culminating in their new "survey"--who would I vote for for President? I was surprised enough that rather than hassling the operator, I merely said I would not answer the question, and hung up.

What possible use could this survey have from a scientific standpoint? The cohort is self-selected and representative of just about nothing. I can't come up with any plausible reason for this that doesn't send me south to Conspiracyland.  Are they comparing my credit record with my political stance?  What would they have done with the data that showed that someone nearly over their VISA limit was ordering Sinatra tickets and voting for Clinton (or Perot, or whomever)?  Would a reputable pollster contract T
icketmaster for such a survey?  If not, why would Ticketmaster care?  Who was that outside my door?  Why are you staring at me?

===
 * SLMR 2.1 * Snark grbfltz.



--  
uucp: uunet!m2xenix!puddle!101!346!Brian.Schuth
Internet: Brian.Schuth@f346.n101.z1.fidonet.org
From: Brian.Lane@p0.f162.n138.z1.fidonet.org (Brian Lane)
Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk
Subject: Common Defense
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 92 11:51:28 PST
Organization: FidoNet node 1:138/162.0 - Callahan's Place, Ashford WA

In a message of 28 Aug 92  23:23:04, Greg Woods wrote:

GW> >I'll gladly pay for the common defense of the country
GW> 
GW> Me too, but I don't consider most of what is done with our "defense"
GW> budget to have much to do with common defense.  How does it "defend"
GW> us to be over there attacking Iraq? Even if Hussein is a slimeball,
GW> you can't call this 'defense'.

  Me three.  Actually the best common defence is an armed citizenry.  If all of us are trained in the use of our weaponry, we are pretty well defended I'd say.

   -Brian


--  
uucp: uunet!m2xenix!puddle!138!162.0!Brian.Lane
Internet: Brian.Lane@p0.f162.n138.z1.fidonet.org