HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kaldis@romulus.rutgers.edu (Theodore A. Kaldis)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: speed, police, crime, hell
Date: 14 Sep 92 13:59:41 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

In article <NEERI.92Sep7181248@iis.ethz.ch> neeri@iis.ethz.ch (Matthias Neeracher) writes:

> In article <55979@olivea.atc.olivetti.com> scaruffi@flash.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Piero Scaruffi) writes:

>> The effects are devastating: the U.S. is the only Western country
>> whose citizens (the honest ones, not the criminals) are afraid of
>> their own police.

> Are you joking?  I'm *definitely* afraid of Swiss police, I am
> reasonably honest, and I'm not the only one.
  ^^^^^|^^^^^^^^^^^
       +-- [i.e., dishonest when you think you can get away with it]

Given the nature of police work, police are generally inclined to
distrust anything that anyone under suspicion might tell them.  Who is
going to say, "Yup, officer, I did it.  You got me."  Right.

I learned this many, many years ago while hitch-hiking cross-country.
I was being checked out by a highway patrolman in Illinois who asked
me for my social security number.  "What do you want that for?", I
asked him.  "To see if you're wanted.", he replied.  "Oh, don't worry,
I can save you the trouble," I answered, "I'm not."  "Yeah, that's
what they all say," he responded.  "Yeah, I suppose they would," I
said as I reached for my social security card.

I was in Connecticut some time ago and my plates had expired.  I had
mailed in the renewal about 2 weeks prior and hadn't received the new
sticker yet.  While I was parked in a service area on the Connecticut
Turnpike, a cop noticed the expired sticker on the back plate and
started giving me sh*t.  "I mailed in the renewal late and haven't
gotten the sticker back yet," I said.  "I just ran the plate and it
came back expired," he replied.  "I mailed it in 2 weeks ago -- they
should have processed it by now," I said.  He didn't believe me.
"You're driving an unregistered vehicle," he said.  "No I'm not," I
replied, "at worst, these are expired plates."  "If I catch you
driving this car, I'm going to give you a ticket, and it's going to
cost you $85," he said.  "Go f*** yourself," I muttered as he drove
away.

A couple of hours later, I called Sacramento, and they said the
renewal had already been processed.  And the renewal arrived in the
mail the next day.  The damned cop had been lying through his teeth
simply because he didn't believe me, the lying sack of sh*t.  I don't
suppose it's all that much different in other parts of the world.
(Perhaps in areas where the mafia own the cops it might be different.
[And if you're going to charge me with anti-Italian bias, please ask
the widow of Paolo Borsellini about this first]).
-- 
The views expressed herein are my   ||  Theodore A. Kaldis
my own only.  Do you seriously      ||  kaldis@remus.rutgers.edu
believe that a major university as  ||  {...}!rutgers!remus.rutgers.edu!kaldis
this would hold such views???       ||
From: tucker@shiva.edsg.hac.com (George Tucker)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,misc.legal
Subject: Re: Seizures, stops and searches (was: Political Parties in the U.S.)
Date: 10 Sep 92 19:27:30 GMT
Reply-To: tucker@shiva.UUCP (George Tucker)
Organization: Hughes Aircraft Co., El Segundo, CA

In article <1685D12CC0.PA146008@utkvm1.utk.edu> PA146008@utkvm1.utk.edu (David Veal) writes:
>     I have serious problems with this, because of the nature of the
>United States it is almost impossible to live without some form of private
>trnasportation outside of major urban areas.  What other rights are we
>giving our "implied consent" to waiving?

And why not insert it in all building permits or deeds?  If you want to
build or buy this house, you have to give permission for the government
to enter and search it at any time, including any people in it, and to
seize anything they don't like.  Nothing unreasonable about that;
it's a voluntary contract.  

	 George Tucker        tucker@tcville.hac.com
South Central LA - solidly Democratic - a few million.
Florida          - close race         - $7 billion.
Too many Quayludes.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.mideast,misc.headlines
From: eggertj@moses.atc.ll.mit.edu (Jim Eggert x6127 g41)
Subject: Re: Fair Swap
Reply-To: eggertj@atc.ll.mit.edu
Organization: MIT Lincoln Lab - Group 41
	<1992Sep4.181853.28566@das.harvard.edu>
	<EGGERTJ.92Sep4233440@moses.atc.ll.mit.edu>
	<1992Sep9.213032.14915@bony1.bony.com>
Date: 10 Sep 92 22:28:48

In article <1992Sep9.213032.14915@bony1.bony.com> jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni) writes:
>   This highlights the sheer lunacy of the current political stance on
>   the issue.  While both Arabs and Jews are allowed by local law to buy
>   and build houses in New York, Jews are prohibited from doing so in
>   Arab states and Jews are now prohibited from doing so in the
>   Occupied/Disputed territories.  To Israelis who consider these
>   territories to be part of Israel, such a "Pale of Settlement" on Jews
>   in the Jewish State is incredible.
> ...
>   The political leaders in Washington and Jerusalem have decided to
>   limit or prohibit Jewish residency in some areas.  Such a legal
>   agreement couldn't possibly pass inside the United States and, were it
>   to be established anywhere else, would be considered a racist motion
>   of the most vile order.  Realpolitik. 

So you consider the current Israeli government racist because it has
decided to slow Jewish settlement activities in the Occupied
Territories.

Perhaps you would also consider the Israeli government racist because
it grants Jews born in the Occupied Territories of foreign parents
immediate Israeli citizenship, but not Arabs born there.

Perhaps you would also consider the Israeli government racist because
it denies Arab Israeli political activity that it allows non-Arab
Israelis.

Or is it only restrictions on Jews that you consider racist, but
restrictions on Arabs are ok?
--
=Jim  eggertj@atc.ll.mit.edu (Jim Eggert)
Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:44657 ca.politics:7594 ba.politics:5167 soc.motss:38730 ba.motss:1570
From: dfpedro@nv2.uswnvg.com (Donn F. Pedro)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,ca.politics,ba.politics,soc.motss,ba.motss
Subject: Re: The Harrassing Phone Calls Can Stop NOW!
Date: 10 Sep 92 22:16:28 GMT
Followup-To: talk.politics.misc
Organization: I don't speak for them anyway.

In article <12129@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
>
>Or maybe I will take the collection of garbage I've been collecting
>from soc.motss and turn it over to Lou Sheldon at the Traditional
>Values Coalition and the Yes on 9 campaign in Oregon.  You know what
>powerful ammunition this stuff is for their side.

Do what you want, Clayton.  You always will.  Send your 'several K'
of cullings from soc.motss is you will.  

You are small time and you always will be.

>Do I make myself clear?

Very clear.  I haven't been here for months and you haven't changed your
little paranoid little "the queers are out to get me" cry one little
bit.

>Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
>Alcohol prohibition didn't work; drug prohibition doesn't work; gun
>prohibition won't work.

And your little threats will never work.  

"For though I walk through the valley of S&M queers, I will fear
no evil, for my carry permit, my rod, and my 'several K' of cullings --
they comfort me"




     Donn Pedro ....................................dfpedro@uswnvg.com

		     There are no ordinary moments.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
From: pjm@anegada.sps.mot.com (Patrick J. McGuinness)
Subject: Re: record album stickering
Organization: Motorola Inc., Austin TX
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 23:30:54 GMT

In article <farenebt.716423991@craft.camp.clarkson.edu> farenebt@craft.camp.clarkson.edu (Bri Farenell) writes:
>I am no fan of censorship but I am wondering how the stickering of
>record albums ("Parental advisory: explicit lyrics") is any different
>from the movie industry rating its movies, G, PG, Pg-13 and R (and NC-17)?

It isn't different. "censorship" is a charged word used to elicit opposition
to the idea. Calling it "labelling" would tone it down a notch.

>Why is one ok but the other elicits fervert opposition?

Why is labelling tuna cans a good thing?

" A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds." 

>A PC-HATING, PRO-LIFE, LIBERAL CARD-CARRYING ACLU MEMBER

Pat, hey I *like* my PC!
Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:44727 ca.politics:7604 ba.politics:5177
From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,ca.politics,ba.politics
Subject: Brian Kane claims pedophilia != child molestation (Re: Run conservatives, run away! (Was: Re: Homophobics can't...))
Date: 10 Sep 92 15:56:27 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <95609@bu.edu>, kane@buast7.bu.edu (Hot Young Star) writes:
> In article <12158@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
# #As you can see, sexual orientation is not defined by this bill.
# #Rape is definitely a sexual orientation; so is child molesting.
# #Disgusting, immoral, horrifying sexual orientations -- but
# #nonetheless, sexual orientation.  AB 101, at least, defined
# #what it meant.
# 
# They're behaviors. Rape is not a sexual orientation. Neither is

Rape is not a sexual orientation?  Perhaps your dictionary has
different meanings for "orientation" and "sexual" than mine.

# child molestation. Pedophilia is a sexual orientation.

Oh that's right, pedophilia (adults having sex with children) 
isn't child molestation.  I keep forgetting that.  Tell me,
why do you insist that adults having sex with children isn't
child molestation, then get upset with me for asking the gay
community to shun NAMBLA?  It's pretty clear why, isn't it?

# #If you want NEA, YOU fund it.
# 
# Someone like Michael Jordan probably won't need social security. Do you hear
# him complaining about paying SS taxes?

Of course not -- he's so rich he'll never notice the SS taxes.

# Many gay men will never have children. Do you hear them complaining about
# paying for children's educational programs?
# 
# kane@{buast7,astro}.bu.edu (Hot Young Star) Astronomy Dept, Boston University,

*I* complain about them, and I have kids.
-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
Alcohol prohibition didn't work; drug prohibition doesn't work; gun
prohibition won't work.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
From: niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent)
Subject: Re: record album stickering
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 21:45:09 GMT

In article <farenebt.716423991@craft.camp.clarkson.edu> farenebt@craft.camp.clarkson.edu (Bri Farenell) writes:

>I am no fan of censorship but I am wondering how the stickering of
>record albums ("Parental advisory: explicit lyrics") is any different
>from the movie industry rating its movies, G, PG, Pg-13 and R (and NC-17)?
>Why is one ok but the other elicits fervert opposition?

They're both exactly the same -- a voluntary warning label on a product.

What people were objecting to was Tipper using government coercion to
scare the record companies into putting labels on albums.  If a company
thinks a product should have a warning to parents and puts it on, that's
fine.  If the company is only doing it under threat of government
action, that's borderline censorship.

[As it turns out, Tipper was semi-misunderstood.  Several times in the
last 5 years, she has testified before state legislatures AGAINST any
bill that would (1) make them legal or (2) make them legally enforceable.]

-- 
David M. Nieporent   | Orioles 1992 World Series Champions
niepornt@phoenix.    | Mike Mussina 1992 AL Cy Young Winner
   princeton.edu     | Brady Anderson 1992 AL MVP
Vote Clinton/Gore '92.   Four more months!
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.elections,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.bush
From: alex@engr3.umbc.edu (alex)
Subject: Pat Robertson and the GOP
Organization: University of Maryland Baltimore Campus
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 18:04:01 GMT

In article <1992Sep14.161726.27442@anasazi.com>, best@anasazi.com (Mike Best) writes:

	[re: this quote
The feminist agenda is a socialist, anti-family political movement that 
encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice 
witchcraft, destroy capitalism, and become lesbians. - Pat Robertson 1992
	]


|> If Mr. Crain wishes to continue to imply that Pat Robertson thought
|> this quote up then he can do so but he will have to prove that Robertson
|> was responsible for it's inclusion in that 1971 document first if he
|> is to maintain credibility for this stance.

	I don't care who thought it up, although I would be surprised
that a declaration of feminism included destroying capatalism. In any
case, all that really counts is:

	(a) Pat Robertson said this, recently, and with feeling.

	(b) Pat Robertson is a respected GOP leader.

I suppose that there are more then a few republicans who Gack at #2, now
you know how moderate Dems feel about Jesse Jackson. None the less, the
GOP candidate had the good graces to recognise Jerry Falwell during the
convention (He hugged Jerry at the podium) so you'll have to really work
to pretend these guys arn't near the top of hte party.

-- 
                               Alex Crain::UMBC Academic Computing Services
"I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens,
 nor should they be considered patriots.  This is one nation under God"
                                     - George Herbert Walker Bush, Feb 1989 
Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:43979 talk.politics.mideast:19680 misc.headlines:6236
From: adam@endor.uucp (Adam Shostack)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.mideast,misc.headlines
Subject: Re: Fair Swap
Date: 6 Sep 92 17:12:33 GMT
Article-I.D.: das.1992Sep6.171233.16027
Organization: Aiken Computation Lab, Harvard University

In article <EGGERTJ.92Sep4232856@moses.atc.ll.mit.edu> eggertj@atc.ll.mit.edu writes:
>In article <1992Sep4.181853.28566@das.harvard.edu> adam@sparkle.uucp (Adam Shostack) writes:
>>   In article <EGGERTJ.92Sep4121103@moses.atc.ll.mit.edu> eggertj@atc.ll.mit.edu writes:
>>   >This is a simple nonsequitur.  There was no Israeli presence in
>>   >Jerusalem in 1947, as there was no Israel.  International law does not
>>   >mandate against Jews in Jerusalem, but rather against the Israeli
>>   >occupation of East Jerusalem.
>>
>>   But anytime a Jew tries to move into a house in East Jerusalem, he is
>>   branded a settler.  The settlers are called "illegal."  Therefore,
>>   Jews can not move into East Jerusalem without certain people claiming
>>   that its an invaison.
>>
>>   Tell me how a Jew can buy property in East Jerusalem and live there.
>>   Tell me why Jews buying back homes they were driven from in the 1930s
>>   is caled "occupation?"
>
>The occupation is not by Jews per se, but by Israel.  There are many
>Arabs and Druse who are Israelis, too.  You seem to mix the concepts
>of Israel and Jews.

Agreeing, for the sake of argument, the Israel is "occupying" East
Jerusalem illegally, please explain how a Jew can move into property
that he buys in East Jerusalem, without anyone making any claim that
his presence there is illegal, an obstacle to peace, etc.

Adam

Adam Shostack 					adam@das.harvard.edu

What a terrible thing to have lost one's .sig.  Or not to have a .sig
at all.  How true that is.      
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.elections,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.marrou,alt.politics.bush
From: PA146008@utkvm1.utk.edu (David Veal)
Subject: Re: Why I cannot vote Democratic
Organization: The University of Tennessee, Knoxville
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 21:15:20 GMT

In article <D2150079.cuv141@ansjem.anes.tulane.edu>
boyd@ansjem.anes.tulane.edu (Victoria L Boyd PhD) writes:

>
>
>In article (David Veal) writes:
>> [deleted stuff]
>>
>>      But I'm not particularly concerned.  I've got a stack of letters to
>> send to my Senator (read: Sleaze-bag Gore) telling him to get his ass back
>> to Congress where I'm paying him to be.
>>
>> >tag@ecn.purdue.edu
>>
>
>Maybe Bush and Quayle should get their butts back to the White House and start rying
>to figure a way out of the deficit while still trying to buy votes with his hanouts
>to special interest groups.
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>Victoria L Boyd PhD
>
>boyd@vax.anes.tulane.edu
>
     That's stack of letters number two.  :-)

     Prince Albert is just a little closer to home.

========================================================================
| David Veal  PA146008@utkvm1.utk.edu                                  |
|             University of Tennessee Division of Continuing Education |
========================================================================
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
From: pjm@anegada.sps.mot.com (Patrick J. McGuinness)
Subject: Re: CLINTON SPEECH: ON MANUFACTURING JOBS
Organization: Motorola Inc., Austin TX
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 20:35:04 GMT

In article <1992Sep11.231225.17079@oracle.us.oracle.com> kwee@oracle.uucp (Karl Wee) writes:
>alex@engr3.umbc.edu (alex) writes:
>>
>>In article <1992Sep10.223904.14932@oracle.us.oracle.com> kwee@oracle.uucp (Karl Wee) writes:
>
>Still, the most important question is the economy, and specifically the
>growth of the pie rather than the question of distribution.  Even a
>Democrat like Clinton has to acknowledge that, even though his economic
>program (nominally aimed primarily at economic growth) can't stand up to
>closer scrutiny.

Right on.  Clinton's program fails the test. Does more harm than good.
It'll dig us into a deeper debt hole, it'll cost close to a million jobs,
and it'll will burden us with ever higher taxes. With "cures" like that,
the disease will seem a better alternative.

>THERE SIMPLY IS NO CLEAR AND PAINLESS FIX.

Absolutely.

>>>In the final analysis, the U.S. economic problems (other than short term
>>>regulating problems) are so inextricably tied to the cultural, political and
>>>productivity realities of this country that THERE IS NO CLEAR FIX.  At
>>>least Bush is trying less to appear to have a fix for the fundamental economic
>>>problems.
>>
>>	I get it: vote for bush, becuase he doesn't even have the pretense
>>of a solution. Why don't we all just eat cynide instead - it's so much more
>>convienent.

Nope. Bush is much closer to what we need to do:
"Government is too big. It costs too much." he said. He ought to know . :-(
Clinton promises more taxes, regulation and spending, when our real problems
are too many entitlements, too much regulation, not enough initiative,
and too much spending.
Even if Bush delivers a fraction of the pro-growth initiative and spending
cuts he's talking about, it'll be better than nothing.
And even doing nothing will be better than Clinton's plans, which
are the wrong thing at the worst time.

>No.  Vote for Bush because at least we can count on him to do nothing and stop
>more congressional handouts to speical interests.  Preserve the state we're
>in now, and stop political nitpicking to encourage somebody who has the really
>important qualities of political courage and the ability to gather support for
>painful remedies to come along.

Right again. Kemp '96!

> I don't want change for the sake of change.
>I'm not throwing a temper tantrum.

Gee, this Karl guy is smart. He must be a Doctor too. :-)

Pat, PhD
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
From: jle@locus.com (John Elghani/10000000)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.mideast,misc.headlines
Subject: Re: Fair Swap
Date: 4 Sep 92 18:13:21 GMT
Organization: Locus Computing Corporation, Los Angeles, California

In article <1992Sep4.035918.13993@colorado.edu> perlman@qso.Colorado.EDU (Eric S. Perlman) writes:
>In article <1992Sep04.001354.2458721@locus.com> jle@locus.com (John Elghani/10000000) writes:
>>In article <1992Sep3.192057.29754@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> wmuhanna@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Waleed A Muhanna) writes:
>>>
>>>In article <1992Aug31.200824.9011@colorado.edu>, perlman@qso.Colorado.EDU 
>>>(Eric S. Perlman) asserts:
>>>>And E. Jerusalem is *not* occupied territory. 
>>>     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>Really? Just because you say so?  For the umpteen time, point of fact is that 
>>
>>He's right Muhanna.  Jerusalem is stolen territory just like its
>>mother Palestine.
>
>Neither is stolen territory.  Israel reclaimed it in a purely defensive
>war.  And Israel was not the agressor in '48, either.

First, you rob my house, I go to reclaim it from you, you are stronger,
you take my car in addition. Does that make you defensive?
Besides, israel came to forcefull existence on May, 15 '48.  Before
that the term israel was only biblical pointing to an extinct tribe.

jle
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
Subject: Re: record album stickering
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 14:10:06 GMT

In article <1992Sep14.032942.19789@news.ysu.edu> ae642@yfn.ysu.edu (Kelley Miller) writes:
>
>I have to disagree with this.  rating systems are not censorship, they are
>a system of information.  You will notice that the movie system does not
>actively prevent anyone with the money to see a film, it only lets the
>viewer know what he may be in for.  Likewise, thje application of warning
>labels on albums in no way constitutes censorship.  Labeling only allows
>parents to be aware that an album may contain material which they may not
>approve their children listining to.
>

Any rating not applied by someone other than the artist themself to their 
creative work is a form of censorship...

>
>>
>>The proper non-censorship system is to get rid of any labelling
>>systems, and those people who are truly concerned should set up
>>reviewing systems where people worried about content can subscribe
>>to, to get reviews.
>
>This I also disagree with.  Since the studios and the album houses are
>making the money, I believe they have a responsibility to inform the 
>public that a product contains material which may be offensive.
>

Why would you prefer an anonymous censor about whom you know nothing
and who could be "Satan" for all you know, to an independent
reviewer of your choice about whom you can know everything?

>And while I would seriously oppose any system of rating or labeling which
>would prevent access to materials, or oppress an artist's right to express
>themselves as they see fit, I think labeling content is appropriate.
>

If you truly care about content, of what use is a "rating" by an
anonymous censor...if you care about content, the least you should
do as a concerned parent or whatever, is find reviewers of films,
music, and books in the media you trust by comparing their reviews
of artistic works with your own over time.

Gerald
From: dlo@druwa.ATT.COM (OlsonDL)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Yes to line item veto
Date: 15 Sep 92 14:46:53 GMT

In article <lb1lecINNns0@spim.mips.com>, mpolen@suntory.mti.sgi.com (Michael Polen) writes:
} |> The most important check and balance is the voters. If Bush had deleted
} |> all the social programs and his GOP's in the Congress had voted against
} |> override, do you think his GOP friends would have been re-elected? 
} |> I think NOT!
} 
} I think that after 2 years of not medicare, no AFDC, no school lunch
} program, ... It won't matter.  The poor will revolt before they starve.
} It will make south LA look like a republican rally.

But such revolts did not occur before these programs were put in place.  So
why would they occur after they are gone?
--
David Olson            dlo@drutx.att.com
"The American Republic will endure, until politicians realize they
can bribe the people with their own money."  Alexis de Tocqueville
Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:44990 ca.politics:7675