HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ketrenoj@ucs.orst.edu (Lord Logics)
Subject: Re: Ways to Foil Piracy
Organization: University Computing Services - OSU
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 23:47:40 GMT

] What about those serial/parallel port "dongles"?  I guess the reason
] why we haven't seen them in games is prohibitive cost.

...cost and the fact that they don't stop piracy.  the only way to make one
that would be too much of a hassle to pirate would be to make one that basicallywas like an amiga emulator via the lpt port, and have the game be written for
the amiga (just using amiga as an example--in reality it would have to be for
a ficticious computer that no one knows how to program)... hardware dongles can
be easily coded around.  it may stop the people that copy games for their 
friends and all, but lets say you play three games, and they all have their
own dongle, personally, that would be more of a hassle than doc checks.  plus
it would put wear and tear on the lpt port and sooner or later u'd break ur
I/O card..  oh well..

James
ketrenoj@ucs.orst.edu
From: jld@datascope.com (Jay L. Davis)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games
Subject: Re: Sci-fi RPG's
Date: 9 Oct 92 20:18:27 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Datascope Corp.

In article <80949@ut-emx.uucp> parker@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Bryan Parker) writes:
>In article <WIGGINS.92Sep26002735@mist.cs.odu.edu> wiggins@mist.cs.odu.edu (Samuel E Wiggins) writes:
>>Can anyone recommend a _good_ computer sci-fi RPG to me?  I'm getting bored
>>of the games I've already played (mostly Fantasy-type RPG's) and was looking
>>for a change of pace.  Anyone know of any mondo-cool SfRPG's that incorporate
>>a little trading, acquiring of skills, etc. for the character, but also *tons*
>>of neat equipment and possibly many different (and deadly) spacecraft types or
>>configurations?  (Excuse my ignorance, I haven't delved deeply into this type
>>of game, yet... though playing TW2002 on a local BBS has turned me on.)
>
     <...stuff deleted...>

>Starflight -- Emphasis on exploration and discovery, communication with said

     <...stuff deleted...>

>Star Command -  My favorite SfRPG.  Very old.  CGA graphics.  Maybe EGA, I'm

     <...stuff deleted...>

>Megatraveller 1 & 2 -- Well, I haven't played either of these, but I hear they

     <...stuff deleted...>

A newer one that is pretty good is Planet's Edge. It is similar in nature
to Starflight (Straflight 1 & 2 were a little better though).

---Jay Davis
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games
From: bryanwu@cs.tamu.edu (Chuan-Yuan Wu)
Subject: Rex Nebular: help needed!
Organization: Computer Science Department, Texas A&M University
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 02:18:50 GMT


I am stuck on REX. 

1. Where can i get the 3rd & 4th batteries?
2. How do i get pass that dog?  I throw 2 bones to it, and it just
   eat those bones.
3. How do i get pass that river in village? 
4. i have some items never used in game.  there are
   a compact case
   a fishing pod disassemble to a pod and line
   2 charge cases (explosives)
   a chicken
   a timer module.

   Thanx in advance.

				Chuan-Yuan Wu
From: bstarr@clyde.ics.uci.edu (Brian Joseph Starr)
Subject: Re: Want info on OOTW
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games
Organization: UC Irvine Department of ICS
Date: 7 Oct 92 16:02:03 GMT
Distribution: usa

In <1992Oct7.060133.14958@leland.Stanford.EDU> umeister@leland.Stanford.EDU (Eushuk Hong) writes:

>Hi.  I'm thinking about buying OOTW, but am wondering if it has some
>wild copy protection scheme.  I bought the Stealth Affair game a few
>years back and after staring at multi-color pictures trying to satsify
>the crazy copy protection scheme, I swore never to by another game by
>Interplay again.  OOTW sounds pretty cool, though, so please e-mail or
>post if OOTW has protection, and if so, what kind.

I'm sorry to say this, but yes, Out of This World has a VERY irritating copy
protection scheme involving a wheel, the need to select a bunch of different
symbols on two different occasions-if you get it wrong, it reboots!  Also, the
documentation is pretty sparse, but that's another story.

Another pet peeve is that it relies far too much on split second timing rather
than stratagy, which detracts from a good game, and you are forced to repeat
the same, initially fascinating, but later annoying, long sequences and puzzles
OVER and OVER again.  If you want a copy, I'll be happy to sell you mine!  I'm
buying Wizardry 7!

Brian Starr (bstarr@ics.uci.edu)
From: honnold@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu (Jeff Honnold EE UnderGrad )
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games
Subject: Re: Star Trek: 25th Anniversary
Summary: Deafeating Enterprise 2
Date: 8 Oct 92 05:36:15 GMT
Organization: College of Engg. & Tech., Ohio University, Athens, Ohio

In article <ld7e3vINNldh@langtry.cs.utexas.edu> joel@cs.utexas.edu (Joel Daniel Just) writes:
>
>I haven't been able to progress past the beginning of the last mission (called
>"vengeance").  Is it possible to avoid battle with the Enterprise-2 and pirate
>ships?  I haven't been able to avoid battle and I can't seem to win!  Is there
>a way to use Sulu to lock on to enemy ships, or do I just need to get a certain number of commendation points to increase my crew's performance?

	I have played this entire game and must admit that this mission really
tried to ruin what was an otherwise pretty good game...I believe the only way
to 'correctly' win this battle is to be nearly perfect in all of your previous
missions so that your crew is good enough.  However I came across a cheat
that gave the enterprise unlimited shields...I'm not sure if it can be found
on any of the ftp sites or not.  I think the whole episode is more luck than 
anything else!  Good Luck...check Wuarchive.wustl.edu for the cheat..if 
anyone has it they will.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games
From: brianc@iastate.edu (Brian J Cerveny)
Subject: Re: Civ: Democracy is a messad
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 01:31:44 GMT

In <1992Oct3.080023.10013@sactoh0.sac.ca.us> jao@sactoh0.sac.ca.us (James A. Ollinger) writes:

>I find democracy to be too much of a PITA.  It's too easy to go into
>anarchy, the people get unhappy too easily, and the only real benefit is
>corruption falloff.  I stay in Republic and leave it at that.  

I've been following this discussion on Republic vs. Democracy, and I have to
say through my experience that I definitely agree with the use of Democracy
and LOTS of trade.  I go to Democracy as soon as I have the Pyramids developed.
Then I crank up the luxuries rate and establish trade routes between every
combination of cities possible on the main continent as well as some to other
civs on other islands.
	I also build railroads on EVERY space visible to a city.  The amount of
trade I get using this strategy is just unreal, not to mention production.  I 
never see anything but a solid bar for each of the items in the resource window 
in about a third of my cities, and several of them grow to over 30 in size.  
And, under a Democracy, none of the trade resulting from the railroads, caravans,
or waterways is lost through corruption so I have TONS of income with a very
small tax rate.
	I also crank luxuries way up.  Typically, a 20% tax and 60-70% luxury 
rate brings in more than enough income.  And probably 60% of my cities are
celebrating President's Day, so I get a phenomenal growth rate.  (Another
advantage of Democracy: during Pres. Day, the city grows 1 level each turn.
Also, you save some decent money each turn not having to pay for Courthouses.)
	As far as military is concerned, I just don't even give other civs
the chance to make peace if I plan to take them over. (That means DON'T meet
with the emissary, because the Senate will force peace if they offer it.)
With all of the WoW's built that make people happy, and with my super-high
luxury levels due to trade and luxury rates, I can have a half dozen units
out of a city with no fear of people turning on me.  And as soon as I take
over enemy cities, they are so overwhelmed by my civilization that they
are instantly happy and usually celebrate Pres. Day right off.
	So as far as I'm concerned, Democracy is THE way to go.  I've won
Emperor level once playing this way (I've only completed one game at that
level) and the other levels many times.

I'm gonna have to play some Railroad Tycoon for a change.  :)
-- 
   // Brian J. Cerveny (brianc@iastate.edu)
 \X/  Disclaimer:  The views expressed above are my own.  So there.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games
From: mcrocker@titan.ucc.umass.edu (MATTHEW S CROCKER)
Subject: Re: CHEAT: CIV available
Keywords: CHEAT CIV
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 15:15:15 GMT

In article <1992Oct7.144818.18413@tamsun.tamu.edu> edb9140@tamsun.tamu.edu (Ed Boling) writes:
>Please send me copies of the previous mentioned two CIV programs.
>
>Thanks
>
>-- 
>==========================
>=EDB9140@Tamsun.TAMU.EDU =
>=Ed Boling               =
>=Texas A&M University    =


I tried to use email but it bounce...

can you uuencode me a copy of the Civ cheat??? or give me an ftp site?

Thanks

-Matt
-- 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
- Matthew Crocker
s1949782@titan.ucc.umass.edu <-  Til 1/1/93
mcrocker@titan.ucc.umass.edu <-  Til I Graduate  LOOOOOOOONNG TIME
From: calvin@bitmap.sybase.com (Calvin Lim)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games
Subject: Re: F15III
Date: 9 Oct 92 18:52:18 GMT
Reply-To: calvin@bitmap.sybase.com
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.

In article 29370@newshost.unh.edu, ggg@kepler.unh.edu (Gregory G Greene) writes:
>>Just got back from Software Etc. and they are showing F15III releasing 
>>October 16.  They are also showing Strike Commander out on the 1st of 
>>November.  FYI - I wouldn't bet my life savings on either release date but 
>>it is grist for the mill.
>
>	I wouldn't bet either.  After all, they have Wizardry 7 as coming out
>   Oct. 3.  I went yesterday to Software Etc., what a surprise, no Wizardry 7.
>   The endless wait continues ( 14+ months ).  The bad news is that I noticed
>   a Sir-Tech Wiz 7 ad in Computer Game Review ( Oct 92 ) that had the white
>   banner in the corner saying "coming soon".  I hope their definition of 
>   "coming soon" is a little sooner this time.  The same ad appeared in 
>   Computer Mags last Fall.
>
>							G.Greene
>
>>
>>Bob Barker
>>barkerb@slab.unt.edu


I recieved mail from Micropose about F15III coming out, and also a special
offer for ordering the game now. So, I ordered a copy, and the next day, I
recieved a notice from them saying the release date is now Oct 31st, 1992!!!
I guess the next ting they will say is that it will be christmas before it
is ready (I heard thet the release date for WC from Origin is now pushed back 
to Feb 1993! :(, anyone can confirm that?)

Just my $0.02 

-Calvin

---

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sybase Inc. / 6475 Christie Avenue / Emeryville / CA / 94608
Calvin Lim	   uunet!{pacbell,pyramid,sun}!sybase!calvin
calvin@sybase.com			       
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Everything I said belongs only to me ......
From: skinner@ces.cwru.edu (Suzanne Skinner)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games
Subject: need help with Kyrandia...
Date: 8 Oct 1992 00:24:34 GMT
Organization: Computer Engineering and Science, Case Western Reserve University
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: fox.ces.cwru.edu


I've been stuck on Quest for Kyrandia for several weeks now. I have mixed the
yellow potion and put two potions on the gems to make a third, and I have
also had the chalice stolen while using my amulet to obtain it. I found the
rainbowstone but have no idea what to do with it. What now? Do I need to mix 
more potions first, or is there a way to get the chalice  back, or what? 
Any help would be much appreciated.


-- 
                 Susan / Trillian / Varda / Galadriel / et al
*******************************************************************************
      "Eddies, in the space-time continuum."   -- Ford Prefect
      "Ahhh, is he. Is he....."    -- Arthur Dent               -HGG
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games
From: mpm@bnr.ca (Mike Mogridge)
Subject: Re: HELP! (WC2)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Ottawa, Canada
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 15:34:07 GMT

In article <1992Oct15.031341.28489@muddcs.claremont.edu>, aroe@jarthur.claremont.edu (Napkin Ball Warrior) writes:
|> 
|> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH
|> 
|> I've spent all this time (hours?) installing Wing Commander II and reading
|> all the cute messages about "no expanded memory found" and the related FX
|> limitations, so I figure, hell, give it some EMS. . . and I load QEMM.
|> 
|> BUT NO!  It locks up at the first whiff of battle.
|> 
|> So I figure, maybe it's QEMM.  I'll just use the standard EMM stuff that
|> came with DOS5, and take out the "no ems" part. . .
|> 
|> WRONG!  It locked up again!
|> 
|> The loadup says it found the memory and is utilizing it, but both cases the
|> "gameplay suffers somewhat" (aka Jammed in Neutral).
|> 
|> Has anyone suffered through this ordeal?  Does anyone know how I can feed it
|> memory properly and enjoy all the extra stuff?
|> 
|> FYI: I'm running a 386-40 with 4megs, Adlib, etc etc etc. . .
|> 
|> Thanx---->
|> 		----> Andy

Yeah this sounds familiar, in my case with QEMM installed it would lock up during
the first cinematic sequence when my fighter was taking off.  Never figured out
what the problem was and simply <ESC>ed past the sequence which averted that
lockup.  The only other lockup occurred fairly often when I would try to exit
via the airlock to DOS; again no idea what the trouble was.  Anyway, I
finished WC2 the other night so I'm not going to try to figure out what the
problems were.
I was running a 386-20 with 8megs, no soundcard and DOS 3.3
-- 
Mike.
From: benrg@ocf.berkeley.edu (Ben Rudiak-Gould)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games
Subject: Re: WANTED: Out of this world/another world CRACK
Date: 11 Oct 92 22:16:14 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
NNTP-Posting-Host: whirlwind.berkeley.edu

In article <1aumknINN9f8@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> bk158@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Su-Cheong Mac) writes:

>  This is the biggest code wheel I have ever seen. Any crack?

Agreed.  I tried to get rid of the code wheel check, but I haven't had
any luck.  The first step when doing these things is to uncompress the
executable.  WORLD.EXE appears to be not only compressed, but encrypted.
I've undone the encryption (it's just a simple XOR of adjacent bytes),
but Diet, Dislite, and Unlzexe still won't touch the result.  Has
anyone gotten beyond this point?

--
Ben Rudiak-Gould
benrg@ocf.berkeley.edu
From: baughman@ctron.com (Chris Baughman)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games
Subject: Re: Stopping Piracy... 70% rule
Date: 7 Oct 92 16:06:06 GMT
Reply-To: baughman@olympus.ctron.com (Chris Baughman)
Organization: Cabletron Systems INc.

gee, do you think maybe people don't pirate expensive nintendo
stuff because they can RENT it and you can't COPY it? If
I owned a nintendo I would never buy a game I hadn't
already rented. Luckily, I do not own a nintendo.
 
chris
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games
From: jch@netcom.com (Jack Hwang)
Subject: FAQ anyone?
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 16:39:45 GMT

After reading this group for couples of month, I found myself repeatedly
reading the same questions asked again and again.  Maybe it is time to
have a FAQ for all gamers.  How do you guys think?

Jack Hwang
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games
From: jrs@netcom.com (John Switzer)
Subject: Re: Cracking EVERLOCK
Keywords: Protection
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 16:02:56 GMT

In article <1992Oct7.143818.14323@pttdis.pttnwb.nl> franki@prso.pttnwb.nl (Frank van Ierland) writes:
>I've got a program that is protected by a EVERLOCK disk protection. 
>Now that the hard disk is crashed and had to be reformated i'am no longer able
>to use this program. As the creator of the  program is bankrupt :-< i can't 
>get a new key disk.
>
>Does annyone out there know how to reenable this disk.
>
>Thanks.
>
>
>PS. Sorry that this is no _GAME_ question but where else could i find the 
>best protection crackers. 

Everlock used to be located in Tempe, Arizona. Perhaps they would be 
understanding? 
-- 
John Switzer               | Why am I voting for Clinton? Because... 
                           | Bill Gates: 36, CEO Microsoft, $6 billion
74076.1250@Compuserve.com  | Me: 36, Tech Writer, 1978 Diesel Rabbit
jrs@netcom.com             | Screw the nerdy rich! (at least 'til I get there)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games
From: etxstfr@helix.ericsson.se (Stefan Frick)
Subject: Falcon 3.0D - autopilot
Reply-To: etxstfr@helix.ericsson.se
Organization: Ericsson Telecom, Printed Circuit Mfg.
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 15:22:57 GMT


I've read the discussion about the 'auto' function in F3 with great interest.
So great in fact, that yesterday I tried it in campain (Panama).
The first mission was to wipe out some armoured enemy ground troops.
I added an extra flight and set thier action to S&D.
And off we go....

The extra flight was very aggresive, they were almost immediatly engaged in
a AA-combat and when the last bandit was sent into the ground, they contiued
on thier way to the target. Flight #1 was still on 'auto', making their way to
the target area. The attack was very successful, almost every ground unit was
taken out with no allied losses. Still on autopilot!

So I set the waypoint for home and entered debug mode.
I went ahead of my flight to the base to watch the landing and when something
strange happend.

The leader lowered his gear, made a nice touch-down and taxied out on the green
area (grass?) Then 1st wing did the same thing but, HE DIDN'T LOWERED HIS GEAR!
He was floating around at a stable height of 12 feet....
This was repeated for the rest of flight #1 and #2.

The mission was a big success, 5 enemy plane + a lot of armoured vehicles.
(On the other hand, next mission was a complete disaster, still with the
autopilot activated....)

Anyone else seen this bizzare landing?

-Stefan
--------------------------------------------------------------------
| Stefan Frick                  | Email: etxstfr@helix.ericsson.se |
| Ericsson Telecom              | Phone: +46-11-241098             |
| Box 72                        | Fax:   +46-11-241207             |
| S-601 02 Norrkoping           |                                  |
| SWEDEN                                                           |
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games
From: lalford@fsu1.cc.fsu.edu (LYNN ALFORD)
Subject: Re: mm3
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4   
Reply-To: lalford@fsu1.cc.fsu.edu
Organization: Florida State University
Distribution:  world
Date: 15 OCT 92 13:20:05    

In article <9ogJsB5w165w@rhps.UUCP>, valar@rhps.UUCP (Michael Desai) writes...
>Also, I can't seem to solve the Princess Trueberry problem.  Any ideas 
>anyone?

Have you followed the clues of the brothers (alpha, beta...)?

If so, do you know what to do with the object that you find?

Lynn
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games
From: c15o@alf.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Thilo Wunderlich)
Subject: Re: LGOP2: Help in finding 8-ball!!!!!!!
Organization: Univ. Bremen, Informatik
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 12:17:15 GMT

jwbutler@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (J.W.) writes:

>the subject line says it all.  
>I have repaired the ship, but one round hole is left, and I'm assuming
>the 8-Ball is what goes there.

Hi Joe !
It might be that you already have the 8-Ball but have overseen it.
I guess the Alien gave it to you, it is in the inventory but easy to miss it.
Thilo

-- 
Thilo Wunderlich    c15o@alf.zfn.uni-bremen.de

--
Thilo Wunderlich    c15o@alf.zfn.uni-bremen.de

Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games
From: bhv@areaplg2.corp.mot.com (Bronis Vidugiris)
Subject: Might & Magic IV vs Dark Savant (wiz7)
Organization: Motorola, CCR&D, CORP, Schaumburg, IL
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 15:47:00 GMT

Dark Savant finally made its way to our nearby computer store, so I snatched
it up.  The mini-review below is based only on a few hours of play,
however.  The rumors about it coming 'only' on 2 disks (1.44 mbyte) are true
- and it unpacks to 'only' 6 Mbytes of HD space.  People who really *want* a
game to take up 20Mbytes will undoubtedly be disapointed :-)

[There is a minor cost for the smaller size.  I suspect Wiz7 will not have
digitized speech like MM4 does, and this accounts for a good chunk of the
difference in disk space.]

Graphically, the animation on Wiz7 seemed to be 'jerkier' than the animation
on MM4 in encounters.  However, I liked the _visual_ style better - as other
posters have commented, MM4 'looks' more nintendoish in the monster style,
Wiz7 seems a little more realistic.  Wiz7 also had a very good looking
background display including an 'outdoors' type display (finally!) and
scrolled significantly faster then MM4 for movement.  Outdoors seems to be
no different other than visually from a dungeon -  however, the added visuals
are a definite enhancement to the game from Bane (IMO).

I haven't yet found a way to 'interrupt' and bypass long 'mood' speeches,
though - (mostly an issue because of restoring multiple saves).  My reactions
to the speeches themselves is below.

I did find the combination of spaceships and a the 'Cyber-punk' cyborgs
and the _writing_ (as opposed to the visual) style a bit jarring in the FRP
setting. (Interesting, because I don't have any problem running a Cyberpapacy
character in TORG which is arguably just as jaring outside of the
appropriate 'realm') The plot and writing style seemed a little overdone to
me - another matter of personal taste.  "Does anybody on this planet know
anything to help? Maybe, and maybe not."  (not an exact quote). Ha!  *I* know
they know.  I suppose my characters don't though.  However, everything seems
just a bit *too* 'cosmic' for my preference.  (Not really a spoiler
- you'd see this all in the introduction.)  Cosmic Lords?  The Hidden
Planet Guardia Now Revealed?  The Quest for the Astral Dominae which Really
Is the most powerful Artifact in the Universe?  The Evil Black Ship of the
Dark Savant?  The Beautiful Domina(?) On Board The Black Ship [with
cyberhand] who is Somehow Inextricably Linked To The Astral Dominae (Though
Of Course She doesn't Know It).  Yep.

So far the game seems pretty solid wrt bugs, but I haven't run it enough to
find any but the most severe.  It runs without EMS, and has an option
for either EMS or a ramdrive to speed play.  Advice on the best course to
choose was lacking - I chose to use the ramdrive.

Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games
From: jlong@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (John Long)
Subject: Re: F16 cockpit coming soon
Organization: Cyberian Air Force
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 22:31:21 GMT


$2000 for a *chair*?

Gimme a break!

No, on thought(2), give me some goggles so I can check 6 by turning my
head, and I'll play it squatting on an upside-down mud bucket. Sheesh!
All that fancy cockpit stuff, and you still get to look *straight ahead
at the moniter* to 'look around'? Ha!

Reminds me of my first 'flight simulator'.... when I was little, I used
to go thru the house and collect bottle caps and put them on a chair,
then sit in front of the chair looking thru the back, which looked
like the nose of a B-29... I used my throat for a sound card. The 
bathroom is the best place for bottle caps, cause there is a variety
of shapes and sizes. The kitchen is also a good place to look. The 
only thing you gotta be careful of is getting the right cap on the
right bottle before Mom finds out. A shampoo bottle cap on a ketchup
bottle does wonders for the taste of meatloaf.

-longjohn