HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rossco@iastate.edu (Ross Stenersen)
Subject: Re: Colorado Amendment 2: The First Fatality
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 23:19:41 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.154610.652@wam.umd.edu> aap@wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo Pinkas) writes:
>In article <BxoBC2.Is5@fc.sde.hp.com> marc@hpmonk.fc.hp.com writes:

>>In the general case, I don't think you can reasonably claim that hiring a
>>homosexual has any adverse effects for you, other than "violating your
>>priniciples", which has been proven in court to be worth squat ("but judge, my
>>principles don't let me associate with black people...")

>Not really. I used to work as a technician fixing very expensive medical
>equipment. One important point was that your image should be well accepted 
>by the client because sales were based, in a lot of cases, on references from
>previous clients. 
>If some of our clients would have had a problem with Gays, the company
>would certainly have not send a Gay person to do the job at that particular
>place.

That same arguement your are using against gay people could very easily
have been used to discriminate against blacks not too many years ago.
Do you think we made a mistake by passing laws protecting them?

Also, from what I have read and heard there is no conclusive proof of any
sort proving either that homosexuality is a choice or not.  Is it fair,
then, to assume that it is choice and discriminate?  Sounds frightfully
similar to being guilty until proven innocent to me.

Even if it is a choice, is it right to discriminate?  Religion is a choice
and the constitution guarantees your right to worship as you choose.

Rossco
rossco@iastate.edu                            *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
rossco@cpre1.ee.iastate.edu                   -* Hate is NOT a family value. *-
rossco@aol.com                                *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Xref: sparky soc.motss:48381 talk.politics.misc:60820 ca.politics:9679
From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,talk.politics.misc,ca.politics
Subject: Re: A Strand of Bigotry
Date: 18 Nov 92 19:36:24 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <1992Nov17.210333.2428@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>, gsh7w@fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU (Greg Hennessy) writes:
> In article <13208@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
> #So why is there a right to practice sodomy?
> 
> Because it is a private matter between consenting adults. Didn't you
> know that?

Of course.  I've argued that repeatedly.  But your reading skills
are so deficient that you utterly missed my point: if you want
freedom, you have to extend it similarly.  You want the freedom to
engage in private acts between consenting adults?  Do likewise.
The homosexual fascist lobby won't -- that's why they insist on
laws regulating private actions between consenting adults.

> #Remember: liberalism IS fascism.
> only where freedom is slavery, i.e, 1984.
> 
> -Greg Hennessy, University of Virginia

Liberalism is fascism anywhere that someone argues that there
is a right for consenting adults to engage in sodomy in private 
without the government coming in and meddling, but that an
adult hiring another adult is a legitimate reason for government
meddling.


-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
"Foxes prefer rabbits with short claws." -- Nadja Adolf
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Re: bear vs. twink
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 18:00:03 GMT

In article <14728.2b0b3de6@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu> msp@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu (Michael S. Pettersen) writes:
>I am very disturbed by the fact that in all this discussion of bear
>vs. twink, that no one has presented the viewpoint of those of us who
>are admirers both of Jacob, who was a smooth man, and Esau, his brother,
>who was an hairy man. I'm tired of people saying that it's just a phase,
>that I'm really one or the other, but don't have the courage to come out
>completely.
>Really, in a community as diverse as ours, there is no excuse
>for such insensitivity to minority issues.  In fact, since there is so little
>interest in my kind of issues in soc.motss, when it's not positively hostile,

I think this is pretty facile and insensitive (even if it is a frivolous
article in response to a somewhat frivolous topic that I can't get too worked
up over.)  The marginalization is not over what type you like, but what type
you happen to be.  Don't forget that.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: brent@syacus.acus.oz.au (Brent Davies)
Subject: Re: Bear Crap
Organization: Australian Centre for Unisys Software, Melbourne
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 01:35:55 GMT

mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik) writes:

>In <17021@umd5.umd.edu> jns@elea.umd.edu (J. N. Shaumeyer) writes:
> >Unfortunately, I can't think of a way to work Steve's
> >phrase 'persons of flamboyance' [which appeared in a
> >different context] into the conversation, but I'd hate 
> >to see it just disappear.

>I'm glad you did, because I didn't spot it.  But you could
>make it "persons of outrageous flamboyance" and acronymize it.

Mara, this is BRILLIANT!  I'm *stealing* it!

Brent
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mls@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (mike.siemon)
Subject: Re: Religion in UK and US
Organization: AT&T
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 14:46:02 GMT
Summary: the KofE is amongst you

In article <cieux@kaa.gr.osf.org>, emcmanus@gr.osf.org (Eamonn McManus) writes:
> jf@threel.co.uk (John Fisher) writes:
> >                                         Britain   US
> >%age who believe in:
> ...
> >Life after death                            55     78
> >Heaven                                      54     86
 
> Perhaps I'm just out of touch with the Religion thing, but it seems
> rather odd to me that more US people believe in Heaven than in life
> after death.  What do the (at least) 8% of people who believe in one
> but not the other think Heaven is for?  Does

It sort of depends on what is meant by the terms.  I'd probably answer
in the negative to both, on the basis of second-guessing what the poll
is presuming to ask.  However, more formally as a Christian, I'd answer
that I do not believe in life after death (though I do not emphatically
deny the possibility, as the Church rather strongly asserts it -- and
Paul, whose opinion carries some weight with me, seems to think that
Christ's resurrection is a guarantee of our own), but I *do* believe
in "Heaven" -- I think that as God is "outside" of time, so is our life
in the Kingdom of Heaven, our participation in the Banquet is at hand
NOW to all who place their trust in God's love.
-- 
Michael L. Siemon		   "Oh, stand, stand at the window,
					As the tears scald and start;
mls@usl.com			   You shall love your crooked neighbor
standard disclaimer			With your crooked heart."
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: lovegod@wam.umd.edu (Donald Andrew Agarrat)
Subject: Re: Rap (Yes, you're still in soc.motss) (Re: Marky Mark
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 13:20:43 GMT

In article <leroy.722481520@yak> leroy@socs.uts.edu.au (Leroy)  
writes:
} Donald Andrew Agarrat wrote: 
} > Brett, there are probably like two people here who know   
} >anything about rap.
} 
} I assume I'm the other?

Judging from your post, I don't think so ...

} > Most Gay men don't like rap.  Well, let me clarify  
} > this.  Most Gay men don't like legitimate rap.  
} 
} That's because we don't have that natural rythmn thing. Well,  
} let me clarify this. Most white people don't like rap -- well,  
} some white people, I'm sure, and they don't like it *a lot*.  
} And it's because, I'm sure, they don't have that natural  
} rhythm thing and because, I'm also sure, all kinds of stupid  
} and ugly characteristics have been ascribed to people of  
} either colour, and you guys got the rhythm. Well, let me  
} clarify that...

Fuck you.  If you were taught African history, Black people  
having natural, instinctual rhythm may not be the abstract,  
"ugly" idea you perceive it to be ...

Don't get me wrong - I could care less whether or not White  
people listen to rap.  Just like I didn't care whether or not  
White Gay men looked at or appreciated "Tongues Untied", by  
Marlon Riggs.  The two are primarily for me.  If you want to  
take the initiative to get to know my people better by these two  
and other mediums, fine.  But I can neither wait for nor can I  
depend on White people to do either.

Donald - It's time for some action!
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality,co.politics,co.general,talk.politics.misc,co.politics.amend2.discuss,boulder.general,csu.general
From: fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary)
Subject: Re: Support the boycott (was Re: Don't boycott all of Colorado)
Followup-To: talk.politics.misc
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 07:35:30 GMT

In article <1992Nov20.231703.7020@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> jyoder@nyx.cs.du.edu (Chris Yoder) writes:
>>...Public property is supposed to be used for
>>the general good (as determined by our trustees, the federal government)
>>not as any one individual wishes.

>	Besides, do you think the feds are the best trustees for our
>collective property?

No, but that is the current law and its justification. I personally
think they should sell off most government property, to people
who would run it better and thereby substantially reduce the
national debt.

                                                Frank Crary
                                                CU Boulder
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: What Gay Sex (was Re: How Many Homosexuals?)
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 19:41:21 GMT


In article <1e8pn3INNbj8@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>
ai888@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Thomas Flesher) writes:

>anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:

>I not only knew, Jess, I did my best to prevent it, by including 
>explicit attribution in the material I quoted. You edited it out. 
>Baaaaad Jess. Write one hundred times: "I will not remove 
>explicit attribution from Tom's posts." And don't post it.

Silly me, I thought people would remember that you wouldn't
have let it pass your sweet lips, even before you said so.

>>It's to whims approximately as Marky Mark is to Mozart.

>Hmmm...  "autochthonous impulses" is to "whims" as Marky
>Mark is to Mozart.  Thanks for the compliment, Jess.  I'll
>be Mozart to your Marky Mark any time.

I certainly did put it backwards, didn't I?  But if you find
either compliment or lack of same in there, you have some
*very* odd glasses on.  Me as Marky Mark would be my
candidate for Least Probable Event of several eons.  If you
saw me, you'd know what I mean.  On the other hand, if I
were Mozart, I would have been composing for the celestial
choir lo, these past 22 years!

>(s) Tom, whistling the theme from the first movement of Mozart's 
>29th Symphony, and wondering if anyone will know who Marky 
>Mark is two centuries after his death.

Not whistling it too slowly, I hope, which lots of
conductors do.  Wonderful slow movement, too.  I think it
was the first Mozart Symphony I really fell in love with.
One could say this of almost any key _chez Mozart_, but
there is something quite special about his works in A Major;
that symphony, the Clarinet Quintet, the two piano
concertos, etc.

-- 
[Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin]
[Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson]
[Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888]
[---------> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <---------]
From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: PHOBE ALERT:  American Family Assn comments on Schlafly outing
Date: 18 Nov 92 17:46:27 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Nov18.174627.20193
Organization: insert anything here

bjb@macsch.com (Bryan J. Blumberg) writes:
>LIBERALS GIVE HOMOSEXUALS SILENT APPROVAL
>By Joseph Sobran, Universal Press Syndicate
>
>This article was taken from the November/December 1992 issue
>of the Journal of the American Family Association.

	What fucking hypocrates.

	Thee are thesame people who would publish  the names
addresses, etc. of people arrested in tearoom sting operations,
fire employees and oipenly say it was because they
were gay, etc.

	Apparnelty outing is only OK if you're heterosexual.

BBC
From: kane@buast7.bu.edu (Hot Young Star)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: What Gay Sex (was Re: How Many Homosexuals?)
Date: 16 Nov 92 17:59:49 GMT
	    <1992Nov16.170351.22048@macc.wisc.edu>
Organization: Astronomy Department, Boston University, Boston, MA, USA
Originator: kane@buast7.bu.edu

In article <1e8dcmINNhsh@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>
ai888@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Thomas Flesher) writes:

>>Sex at home. That's not very _gay_. I want to have sex in a 
>>hotel ballroom (what better place to hold some balls), in orbit 
>>over Florida (the sight of that huge peninsula drives me wild), 
>>in a condom factory (while the first gay presidential candidate 
>>stages a photo-op, condoms flying like flags behind him). 
>>You get the idea.

Jess Anderson responds:
>Sure I do.  You're dizzy with autochthonous impulses.

au.toch.tho.nous \o.-'ta:k-th*-n*s\ \-ne-\ aj : INDIGENOUS, NATIVE - 
   au.toch.tho.nous.ly av

I must say, Jess, you've been waxing Paglian lately!

Are you an Appolonian or a Dionysian?

Cheers,
Brian
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
kane@{buast7,astro}.bu.edu (Hot Young Star) Astronomy Dept, Boston University,
Boston, MA 02215. True personal salvation is achieved by absolute faith in
ones true self.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
From: ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com (Ailsa N.T. Murphy)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Patrick Stewart & "Space Age"
Date: 20 Nov 92 18:38:57 GMT
Reply-To: ailanth!ailsa@wang.com (Ailsa N.T. Murphy)
Organization: Ailanthus Project

adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:

> In article <1992Nov17.020926.17608@macc.wisc.edu>
> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
> >
> > Where is Patrick Stewart from,
>
> Somewhere in the UK.
>
> > and whence his manner of speaking?
>
> Hideous, no?  I was at a cocktail party he attended once (name-
> drop, name-drop, name-drop) and his RAOUNDED TAONES are even
> worse in person.
>
arne is insane.  or has no taste.  i woudl cheerfully enslave mr.
stewart, just to keep him standing around reading.  he could read the
manhattan telephone book, i don't care - just so long as he keeps
talking...  *grin*

ask me about my fantasy celebrity orgy sometime...  *BIG grin*

                                             -ailsa

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
                    ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com
                                                        ________
I miss the rains down in Africa.                Silence \      / Action
Gotta take some time to do the things we           =     \    /    =
  never have...                                  Death    \  /    Life
                                                           \/
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams)
Subject: Re: Colorado: My 2 cents
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, California
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 17:08:26 GMT

I haven't seen anything about this here, but I'm informed
that Colorado was much discussed at last weekend's Creating
Change conference in LA.  The consensus from that gathering
of ~1500 activists from across the country was that, instead
of boycotting Colorado, queers should kill the place with
*niceness*.

There's a plan to set up "sister city" partnerships between
the GLB communities in cities in Colorado and everywhere else.
Through these partnerships, GLBs would increase queer
visibility in the Colorado cities, work on heartwarming
projects like cleaning up parks, helping the homeless, etc...
When the next Amendment 2 comes around, straight citizens
will know some real queers, see the good that they've done in
their communities, and reject the Evil Fundie Agenda.

Sounds pretty clever to me, and this strategy would completely
disarm the opposition, while a boycott would play right into
their hands...
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
rod williams -=- pacific bell -=- san ramon, ca -=- rjwill6@pacbell.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: snodgras@lclark.edu (Bil Snodgrass)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Babs calls fro Colorado Boycott
Date: 20 Nov 92 14:10:56 GMT
Article-I.D.: lclark.1992Nov20.141056.2575
Organization: Lewis & Clark College, Portland OR

Oregonian, Friday, Nov. 20, 1992

Singer-actress-director Barbra Streisand urged fellow entertainers
to boycott Colorado because of a new anti-homosexual rights 
amendment to the state's constitution.

"There are plenty of us who love the mountains and rivers
of that truly beautiful state, but we must now say clearly that 
the moral climate there is no longer acceptable, and if we're
asked to, we must refuse to play where they discriminate," she 
said this week at a gala AIDS benefit in Los Angeles....
From: tdober@llnl.gov (TDO)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: do you know a minor german princess? no, but if you humm a
Date: 17 Nov 92 21:54:20 GMT
Followup-To: soc.motss
Organization: llnl

In article <69589@cup.portal.com>, Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton
Madison) wrote:

> Ken Dykes writes:
> >richard@Apple.COM (a flying squirrel) writes:
> >>thaaang writes:
> >>>'I'm a minor German princess myself, but...'
> >>Hmmm.  I was going to pipe up and say "diminished", but you are so much
> >>more *interesting* when you are, ah, "augmented".

> >>I had better watch what I say around here; if I don't see sharp, I'm
> >>gonna be flat.

> >dont fret over it.

> What a *BASS* thing to say!

Don't treble yourself. We're all in a chord here.


> [> George D. Madison | NBCS: B8f+t+w-e+s+k+a!cv | Just say NO to razors! <]


TDO
--
#include "StdDisclaimer.h"

Pain, like time, is going to come on regardless. Question is, what glorious
moments can you win from life in addition to the pain? -- Lois McMaster
Bujold, _Barrayar_
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid)
Subject: Re: Cheese-Louise
Organization: Eris's Restaurant
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 21:34:41 GMT

In article <BxyzLL.B5@cs.vu.nl> fjvwing@cs.vu.nl (FJ!!) writes:
>So darlings, you can talk all you want about cheese and pass yourselves
>off as conaisseurs if you try, but you don't exist in my book until you
>know the difference between 'belegen' and 'half-belegen' _and_ can
>pronounce 'Goudse, Komijne en Edammer kaas' correctly.
>
>Knowing what kind of a cheese-slicer, called 'kaasschaaf', you need for
>'jonge kaas' gets you up there pretty high as well.

*grins* I know having a 90% Dutch family would come in useful one of
these days.  Not only do I know, I *have* a kaasschaaf.  So are you
going to propose to me?

				Kay
-- 
6'2", dark short hair, blue eyes, bisexual and horny as ....
Kay Dekker, Dept of Industrial Design, Coventry University, Coventry UK
37 Old Winnings Road, Keresley Village, Coventry   |B0 f t+ g++ k++! s+ e r p!
Phone: +44 203 838668 (work) +44 203 337865 (home) |Deflowerer-of-innocents
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Subject: Re: Colorado Reply
Organization: insert anything here
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 21:46:33 GMT

rizzoe@FASECON.ECON.NYU.EDU (Emily Rizzo) writes:

>Received this handwritten note from John O. Gilbert, President & General
>Manager of KOAA-TV in Colorado Springs in response to my letter of dismay 
>and outrage at CO-2. Now if the President had time to send me a 
>hand-written note this means he isn't getting as much mail as he 
>should from us.  Time for someone from Colorado to repost those
>addresses!  

>Emily (who deeply resents the slur on her recently adopted borough)

	[I'm keeping the leetter here because I want this asshole to
get as much attention as he can.  I think this basically draws
the battle lines and we are stupid if we don't respond to it!  ]

	Emily, you might consider going to the main
stream press with this --- esp. queer-oriented press like
QW (which is in NYC), etc.  It's especially important
since the guy put his name to it, and he is the general manager
of a TV station.  Let's give this guy every bit of attention 
he can so he can see how "well" his opinion and choices fare
in our society...

BBC

>
> -----------------------------------------------------------
>  Dear Emily --
>
>  We're all entitled to our feeling and I certainly respect yours, 
>  although I disagree with them ----
>
>  As for your not coming to Colorado, all I can say about that is --
>  that you lose, particularly when you're from Brooklyn ----
>
>  Have a nice summer!
>
>  John
>----------------------------------------------------------------
From: mds5142@ultb.isc.rit.edu (M.D. Shepherd)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Marky Mark and Calvin Klein (was Re: Scott Masden)
Date: 17 Nov 92 03:31:15 GMT
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Originator: mds5142@ultb

In article <thaaang.721931083@cwis> thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance) writes:
>Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison) writes:
>
>This is disturbing. Is 'White rapper' an oxymoron? (and NKOTB
>was hardly 'exploiting a black art' anyway, unless the boundaries
>for 'black territory' encompassed a lot more than I'd thought...)
>

Oh, gee, let's start categorizing, stereotyping, and be total bigots.
Espicially on this newsgroup, you'd think that would be kept to a
minimum.  Why can't a rapper be white?  Sure, there aren't a hell of a
lot of 'em, and I hate rap, but give the guy a break.  What about the
black metal band Living Colour?  Are they walking oxymorons?  Come on,
guys...look past the surface, look past the race, look beyond what your
eyes tell you.  If Marky likes rap, he has every right to 'produce' it.
If it sells, great for him.

later,
Mike
-- 
Michael Shepherd ++ mds5142@ultb.isc.rit.edu ++ shepherd.wbst129@xerox.com
* From the pain come the dream, From the dream come the vision, From the *
* vision come the people, And from the people come the power, From this  *
* power come the change.  - P. Gabriel                                   *