HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Subject: Re: Consultations with a Rabbi
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 21:18:32 GMT

In article <6625@pdxgate.UUCP> a0cb@rigel.cs.pdx.edu (Chris Bertholf) writes:
>saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal) writes:

>>In article <6595@pdxgate.UUCP> a0cb@odin.cc.pdx.edu (Chris Bertholf) writes:

>>>Yes. Close your ears and eyes.  Don't listen. Don't think about how
>>>it may be wrong (or right) and dismiss it completely.  It doesn't
>>>have the slightest meaning in your lives, so ignore it instead of
>>>understanding it, and being better preparred to deal with similar
>>>arguments with thoughtful, reasoned responses.

>>It is not an issue of rejecting without understanding.  How many times
>>must I read the same stuff with the same fraud before I can reject it
>>from its first sentence?  Why bother reading it after the Nth time?  Why
>>waste my time whn it is the same lies, fraud, deception, and garbage,
>>possibly slightly (at best)  repackaged?

>How would you know that without reading it?  Again, the stupidity of
>some people never ceases to amaze me.

>You are saying that there is a writing (call it P) and that there is another
>writing (call it Q) such that if you have read P, and Q is on the same topic,
>although by a different author with possibly different resources and sources,
>that you know the contents of Q from P.  BWAHHH HAAA HAAAA HAAA! Too funny!

Wrong, gripless.

It is once I have read A, B, C,...Z, and AA and others have read a few
of these plus BB, CC, DD, ...,ZZ and AAA by the same sets of authors
and have seen the redundancy and duplication that we know we can share
notes and whaddaya know, it is the same old garbage.

Were it only a couple examples, I agree that it might not be enough.  When
the number of examples goes, litterally to the dozens and the differences
stay at fewer than 4, I think it becomes blindingly clear that you J4J
have nothing (new) to say to us.

>You also call it "the same stuff with the same fraud" without having any
>idea what the document contains.

You are wrrong.  I have read plenty of the trash they spout.  I can say
authoritatively that it is trash.

>Get a grip, then repost something intelligent.

And why don't you just not post.
-- 
Sam Saal      kingfish!saal OR saal@kingfish.att.com
	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Subject: Re: M.Haussman - get a life
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 03:34:34 GMT

In <Dec19.211401.68995@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> mk568652@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Mitchell Kotler) writes:

>Let God judge you when your time comes.  If you think God would
>approve of your actions, then keep doing it.

You know, this isn't the most relevant of remarks to direct at a
person who doesn't believe in God ...
-- 
/|/-\/-\          "If there really was a Jewish conspiracy to run the
 |__/__/_/        world, my rabbi would have let me in on it by now.
 |warren@         I contribute enough to the shule."
/ nysernet.org 			    Saul Goodman
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: dkhaikin@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Dmitry Khaikin)
Subject: Re: God's Hyphen (Re: Mezuzah question)
Keywords: Even if they *do* say Jehovah!
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 02:42:36 GMT

In article <1992Dec28.222947.1871@netcom.com> solovay@netcom.com (Andrew Solovay) writes:
>In article <1992Dec28.202352.29882@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> dkhaikin@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Dmitry Khaikin) writes:
>>... However, one should still try to avoid writing the Name as it
>>is. I personally don't understand what is the big deal for everybody to
>>write A-d-o... and G-d? It is not that much work and at the same time it
>>shows respect. I do agree that one could argue that it is not really
>>breaking anything, but do we have to get as close as we can to the edge
>>after which it is breaking something? 
>
>Well, as you may or may not recall, this thread started when you
>flamed someone for doing a perfectly reasonable and
>(halachically) acceptable thing, namely spelling out "Adonai"
>when telling someone how to say a brachah.

You just had to write it like I asked everybody not to. Well, it is your
choice and it is your mitzvah after all...


Thanks,
Dima
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  "A word is worth one coin; silence is worth two."_____ The Talmud.
  "Silence is good everywhere, except in connection with Torah."____ The Zohar.
  dkhaikin@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu  ( Dmitry Khaikin, Columbus Ohio )
From: gertler@cyclone.sbi.com (Don Gertler)
Subject: Re: Mezuza question
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <gertler@cyclone.sbi.com (Don Gertler)>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 01:49:05 GMT

hem@col400.att.com (Hillel E. Markowitz) writes:

> If the new owner is not Jewish, then you must remove the old
> mezuzah.  If you don't know the new owners then it would be best
> to take the old mezuzas to your new how.  If the new owners would
> use a mezuza themselves then it may be best to bring up the issue
> (you can say you would prefer to take the mezuzas).  In either
> case, it would be best to first get the mezuzas checked to make
> sure they are still kosher.

And it is perfectly appropriate to charge the new owner for the mezuzot.

-Don Gertler
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Subject: Re: Kahane's philosophy
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 08:19:33 GMT

dm: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)

me: I believe that I understand David Makowsky to mean that there is
me: nothing wrong with Binyamin Kahane saying

me:     "As far as I'm concerned, kill any Arab who stands in our way, in the
me:     most humane manner possible, causing the least suffering."

me: in light of his emotions, which are due to his father's murder.

me: I disagree.  I understand why he feels that way, but I insist that he
me: has a responsibility to either control himself or to seek counselling.

dm: Well, he has controled himself.  As to counseling, perhaps you are
dm: correct.  Perhpas not. But either way, there is nothing wrong with
dm: what he said.

As he made the objectionable statement, he clearly has not controlled
himself.  And why is "nothing wrong" in your latest posting not
qualified with the emotional state of who said it?
-- 
/|/-\/-\          "If there really was a Jewish conspiracy to run the
 |__/__/_/        world, my rabbi would have let me in on it by now.
 |warren@         I contribute enough to the shule."
/ nysernet.org 			    Saul Goodman
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Israel must return the deportees!
Date: 29 Dec 92 14:01:26 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <531@owl.ukc.ac.uk> dat@ukc.ac.uk (D.A.Turner) writes:

>During the last seven days  12  palestinians  have  been  shot  dead  by
>Israeli  forces in Gaza and the West Bank.  This includes a ten year old
>girl, Rana Abu Tyour, shot while she went to get milk in a curfew break.
>She  bled  to  death  in  an  alley,  while  Israeli  soldiers with guns
>prevented anyone from going to help her.

Thank you for quoting Palestinian propoganda to soc.culture.jewish.  Just
what we need.

>The deportations will simply fuel further violence.  I can tell  you  my
>reaction  to the deportations - I wanted to go out and punch the nearest
>Israeli.  And I am a Jew.  What effect do you think it will have on  the
>Palestinians?

So maybe this is where those $%&^@!! Jews get their violent streak....

>David Turner
>(A British Jew who does NOT support Israel)

Which proves you don't have to be a nonJew to be an antisemite.
-- 
Sam Saal      kingfish!saal OR saal@kingfish.att.com
	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.arabic
From: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Subject: Re: deportation
Reply-To: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe AZ
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 06:21:03 GMT

In article <1hj72tINN8c7@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> cl056@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Hamaza H. Salah) writes:
 
# In a previous article, astein@nysernet.org (Alan Stein) says:
 
# >cl056@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Hamaza H. Salah) writes:

# >>However there is a difference here.  In Kuwait, Palestinians were
# >>not kicked from their homeland.  In Israel, Palestinians were kicked
# >>from Gaza Strip and West Bank.

# >... To which the families of the vast majority were recent immigrants
# >from surrounding Arab lands, enticed by the economic rejuvenation
# >brought on the the Zionist influx they love to rail against.
 
# The economic what! Jews allover the world are so worry to migrate to
# Israel for two reasons:
# 1. They will not find a job (some endup mobing floors)
# 2. They are afraid of Israel instability 

	Well you missed his point, and your points are wrong anyways.  In
fact, many yordim (Jews who left Israel) are now returning.  The bad
economy outside of Israel is just one of the reasons.

# >It's likely that the families of thousands of those "Palestinians" who
# >were expelled from Kuwait came to Palestine from Kuwait in the first
# >place.
 
# If some did, it is natural for any body to return to his/her homeland.
 
	You still missed the point.  Alan demonstrated that Kuwait was more
likely to have been their homeland.
--
	There are three types of people in the world.  Those that are good
at math and those that are not.

makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: mark@fenris.albany.edu (Mark Steinberger)
Subject: Re: ACLU/AJC Menorah Police?
Organization: State University of New York at Albany
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 15:11:55 GMT

In article <1992Dec22.013029.7089@starbase.trincoll.edu> nmiller@starbase.trincoll.edu (norman miller) writes:
>Erecting a menorah in a public park or square requires some sort of permit
>and therein lies state involvement.  It means that the state is asked to
>make distinctions between those things that are "religious" and those that
>are not 

And somehow, we always wind up with Christmas trees and Santa Clauses
in such places, presented as secular items.

Menorahs would make a nice counterbalance to all this Christmas
decoration, and would help our children feel they are an accepted part
of the society at large. It would help us instill a pride in our
heritage. 

Given the intermarriage rate, such experiments might be worthwhile.


>And it means, even more certainly, that our grandchildren will grow up
>in an oppressive and coercive Christian ambiance.

It is precisely the prevalence of Christian imagery, in public parks
as well as other places, that makes it valuable to have some of our
own imagery up on display.

--Mark
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Subject: Re: Israel's deportation of over 400 Palestinians
Reply-To: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe AZ
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 07:23:48 GMT

In article <23109@venera.isi.edu> arens@ISI.EDU (Yigal Arens) writes:

# In article <1992Dec20.072835.24581@ennews.eas.asu.edu> makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky) writes:

# > In article <23097@venera.isi.edu> arens@ISI.EDU (Yigal Arens) writes:

# > # In article <1992Dec18.185837.8548@ennews.eas.asu.edu>
# > # makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky) writes:

# > # > In article <1gt2k7INNjkm@mizar.usc.edu> srose@mizar.usc.edu (Steve
# > # > Rose) writes:

# > # > # Israel's deportation of over 400 Palestinians is wrong, for at
# > # > # least three reasons.  1. It is illegal (according to Israeli, as
# > # > # well as international law).

# > # >  Since the Israeli Supreme court allowed it, you are an idiot if
# > # > you think it is illegal according to Israeli law.

# > # Mr. Makowsky, we all know you are the mother of all idiots -- but do you
# > # *have* to demonstrate it again and again?  For your information, the
# > # Israeli Supreme Court allowed the deportation to take place without
# > # ruling on its legality.  It set a date about a month from now for
# > # arguments on that issue.

# >  Well maybe I am the "mother of all idiots", although I doubt it.
# > And maybe I demonstrate it again and again, although I doubt it.
# > However, in this case it is you Mr. Arens who is stringing himself up
# > with the idiot rope.o

# >  If it was illegal, the Supreme court would have stoped it.  I
# > fact, a temporary injunction was granted (and than revoked or expired)
# > for just that reason.o
 
# I don't expect you to believe me, but don't you read newspapers or
# listen to the radio?  The Israeli Supreme Court has not yet given a
# final ruling on the legality of the deportations.

	Oh ya?  They already gave a ruling (the injunction was 86ed).

# I don't have any high hopes that they'll rescind them, but the fact is
# that only an idiot can argue that the deportations are legal "because
# the court allowed them", since the court has NOT ruled on their legality
# yet.

	It seems as though you are the idiot.  At any rate, if they should
rule now against them, don't bother rushing to jump all over me
(actually, I should not be saying this, it would be fun imagining the
egg all over your face when you did).  They are only considering it
now because of NEW factors (i.e. the current conditions of the
deportees.
--
	There are three types of people in the world.  Those that are good
at math and those that are not.

makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: cohen@quartz.ciw.edu (Ronald Cohen)
Subject: Re: Conversion Question
Date: 31 Dec 92 02:39:35 GMT
Organization: Geophysical Laboratory, CIW

In article <9212302045.AA04578@cyclone.sbi.com> <gertler@cyclone.sbi.com (Don Gertler)> writes:
>Well then, what is C?  I had thought that a major distinction -- litmus
>test, if you will -- was that O believes in Torah leMoshe miSinai (a
>physical or dictational transfer), whereas C believes in Torah min
>haShamayim (more like a spiritual inspiration).

No, that is not the case.  There are no litmus tests in
Conservative Judaism.  And I don't think your description of an
O position is justified either.  Rashi (I assume he wasn't C, or
maybe he was!) talks about whether Moshe wrote the Torah by
dictation or not and doesn't offer an opinion.  

A recent post on this may help clear the C position up, though I
might add the "position" often seems to be to take no position
on beliefs.  There is no dogma that must be believed to be a
Conservative Jew, but there is no dogma one must believe to
attend an orthodox shul for that matter.

For more see article <294kwB6w165w@cybernet.cse.fau.edu> waldo@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (Todd J. Dicker):

>
>Nevertheless, where did you invent that nonsense that I feel that
>most of the Jews in Israel aren't real Jews?  I wish you (and others)
>would stop resorting to such ridiculous arguments.  If you disagree
>with something I have said, then say so.  If you disagree with
>something I *haven't* said, please realize that *I* may disagree
>with it as well.  If you feel the need to have me fulfill your
>biased stereotypes of the Orthodox, please have the decency to
>trap me into them first, then flame me.  Thank you.

Because no one can demonstrate direct lineage back to Abraham
(who was a convert himself!) or to the 12 tribes for that
matter.  So they cannot be proved to be Jews.

Interestingly, on the other hand, with the number of generations
that have gone by, by the halachic definition of a Jew being
anyone with a Jew in the maternal line, there must be many Jews
running around who have no idea they are Jewish!  I guess Elijah
will have to sort all of that out.
-- 
Ronald Cohen
Geophysical Laboratory, Carnegie Institution of Washington
5251 Broad Branch Rd., N.W.,  Washington, D.C. 20015
From: aliki@nova1.stanford.edu (Alexandra Schmidt)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Feld Brothers
Date: 23 Dec 1992 17:49:44 GMT
Organization: Stanford University
NNTP-Posting-Host: nova1.stanford.edu

The whole incident strikes me as unfortunate and tragic whether innocent men
have been wrongly accused or a daughter is *really* out to get her parents.

There are a couple of details related to the case, though, that persistently
bother me and that I wish I had more information on (what I know is what 
I've read here--thanks for forwarding it, Hillel--and what's covered in the 
local papers).  Anyone know?

1) Why won't the daughter of the couple (the friend of the Felds) comment on
   the case or make a statement that the Felds are wrongly accused?  Strikes
   me as most peculiar, since they appear to have come to the Bay Area at
   her behest.

2) Why would they have a floor plan, complete with keys and the location of
   a gun, to the Wassermans' home, and be staying as 'house guests' without
   Dr. and Mrs. Wasserman being informed ahead of time?  In light of the 
   obviously terrible relationship between the daughter, Rachel, and her
   parents (the paper quoted her parents as saying that the last time they
   spoke with her she said that she never wanted to hear from them, if they
   contacted her she'd kill them, and that she had friends who would be 
   willing to do it), it seems very odd that she would then volunteer their
   home as a place for her friends to stay.

3) Maybe I'm just an old square at 24, but the Felds' statement that Rachel
   asked them to go to her parents' home and "feel the energy there" strikes
   me as strange.

Whatever the facts, these and other details discussed are sufficiently odd
that I think it's for the best that they are being looked into.

			. . .Alexandra
From: simon1@bass.bu.edu (Simon Streltsov)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: source of info about Jewish places in Russia
Date: 29 Dec 92 04:53:00 GMT
Reply-To: simon1@bass.bu.edu (Simon Streltsov)
Followup-To: soc.culture.jewish
Distribution: na
Organization: Boston University

Some terrified visitors of the conferences or
brave travelers ask sometimes:
"where to eat kosher in Moscow",
or to stay on Shabbos.

I'll better post a source of info here once:
Mahanaim in Jerusalem: 02/354-639 or 354-670.

They have an office in Moscow and should be in touch 
with always changing reality there.

Also, I would think,
that they can  be a good place to put your tzdoka money :
they help to provide good Jewish education in Moscow
(at least they were 2-3 years ago - last time I contacted them).

Simon
From: jlove@ivrit.ra.itd.umich.edu (Jack Love)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Jewish Christmas Carol Hits
Date: 24 Dec 1992 02:32:17 GMT
Organization: /usr/local/trn/lib/organization
NNTP-Posting-Host: ivrit.ra.itd.umich.edu

In article <1hb72uINNcs@terminator.rs.itd.umich.edu> jlove@ivrit.ra.itd.umich.edu (Jack Love) writes:
>None of PP&M are Jewish, and in fact Paul Stuckey (sp?) is close
[remainder deleted]

I surrender. Within instants I had e-mail! Peter Yarrow is Jewish,
so flog me with a spoon...
-- 
________________________________________
Jack F. Love	| 	Opinions expressed are mine alone.
		|	(Unless you happen to agree.)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: mark@fenris.albany.edu (Mark Steinberger)
Subject: Re: Name of Palestinian Deportees (part i)
Organization: State University of New York at Albany
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 93 04:08:03 GMT

In article <EGGERTJ.92Dec31103353@moses.atc.ll.mit.edu> eggertj@atc.ll.mit.edu writes:
>Why did Israel not put these people on trial, if they are such heinous
>criminals?

They should have.

In fact, despite all the noise here, the temporary deportation is much
more lenient than imprisonment and trial. And since they have the
right of appeal for this deportation, the current situation gives them
their day in court without imprisonment.

Rabin was stupid. He wanted to do something flashy to demonstrate to
the Israeli Jews that he was fighting the terrorists.

The result is that the pro-Arab factions are jumping in to trash the
peace negotiations. Rabin has made serious concessions for peace while
the Arabs have stonewalled. They are now using this temporary
deportation issue to avoid having to make concessions of their own.

The fact is that the Arabs don't want a negotiated peace.

And all this noise is the most biased piece of nonsense I've ever
heard. Hamas has taken responsibility for the murder of the 15 year
old Helena Rapp. Where were all our experts in international law then?
What was her offense? That she's Jewish. Nothing more.

What was her right of appeal? To whom can her family turn in protest?

No, I don't think the Hamas members should have been temporarily deported.

But I don't think you Israel-haters have a leg to stand on with this issue.

--Mark
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.african.american,soc.history,rec.arts.movies
From: levene@aplpy.jhuapl.edu (Robert A. Levene)
Subject: Death Camp Liberators (was Re: Some good news from Crown Heights)
Followup-To: soc.culture.jewish
Organization: Johns Hopkins University 
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 92 04:31:36 GMT

[ Please pardon the wide distribution.  I've directed followups
  to soc.culture.jewish ]

From the 12/30 NY Times:

> ...  And about 20
> blacks and 20 Lubavitcher youths travelled by bus to the Apollo
> Theater in Harlem to see the documentary about black soldiers
> liberating Nazi death camps....


I heard a radio program featuring a veteran (Colonel?) who claimed
that his own troops liberated Dachau and Buchenwald (or was it
Bergen-Belsen?), while the black troops in question (761st tank div.,
and another group?) arrived five days later.  At the time of
liberation, claimed the veteran, the black soldiers were fighting
fiercely in the front lines around ~100 miles from the death camps.

Other callers said that veterans of these Black divisions were annoyed
at the producers of the Liberators documentary for making such a huge
historical error, adding insult to the injury of having decades pass
without proper recognition for what they actually *did* accomplish,
e.g. spearheading Gen. Patton's maneuvers and assisting (though not
liberating) the recently liberated death camp survivors.

I'm not expert in these matters, and would like to
learn the actual story.

Rob

--
Robert A. Levene     Internet: levene@aplpy.jhuapl.edu
  "/  //  / /"         Bitnet:   RXL1@APLVM
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish