HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sproven@cs.strath.ac.uk (Simon B Proven IE91)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Gas subsidies and taxes (was Re: Bicycle Paths
Date: 20 Aug 92 08:56:41 GMT
Organization: Comp. Sci. Dept., Strathclyde Univ., Glasgow, Scotland.

In article <1992Aug17.124950.8720@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com> caseb@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com writes:
>As I have said before, a gas tax would affect everyone, not just people 
>who drive "too much".  You can be sure that unemployment and inflation 
>would increase.  And I can promise you that low income workers would lose 
>their jobs before the president of Exxon.

Whoa!  Cars aren't the ONLY source of pollution.  How about a 'Carbon Tax'
that applies to all forms of fossil fuel, and possibly to other forms of
fuel such as nuclear power.  Then, other taxes would be dropped to keep the
revenue constant - eg lower income tax, no VAT (is there something
similar in the US?) etc.

This would provide a genuine incentive for people to use environmentaly
friendly products, and take other measures to live in an environmentaly
friendly manner.  Mass transportation of people and goods would not
suffer so much, as it is more efficient than the fat slob in his car.

Before you followup, remember - I'm not suggesting ANY increase in
national tax burden, but a shift from taxing income to taxing environmental
damage, with the balance adjusted so that the total revenue was the
same.  Then, EVERYONE would have the incentive to 'go green' and perhaps
this would counter the fat slob element.

>If the tax does not internalize the environmental cost of gas use, then
>it simply reduces economic activity and our standard of living.  
           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Why?  What will happen is that mass transport will be used more, and
possibly localised production will become more attractive as dragging
products halfway across the country to suit centralise production
becomes too expensive.  If a factory uses an inefficient production
process, then there will be an incentive to spend money on a new
system which costs loadsamoney but uses less energy - therefore
saving in the medium to long term.

>Is that what we want?  Are we sure that burning gas will destroy the
>planet?  Who is going to decide how low our standard of living should be
>in order to save the world?

You attitude is awful.  You'd rather just do nothing and let the world
slide into becoming a giant gas chamber than take the nasty pill now and
get better later, or so it seems from here.

>
>Brian Case
>
>> -- 
>> David R. Mayne         1372 Normandy Dr. NE             Atlanta, GA 30306
>> david@wmms.UUCP        (404) 876-0943        ...!gatech!bagend!wmms!david


 _ _ _            _    __
' ) ) )        / / \  /  )    /
 / / / __.  __/ / (/ /--<  o /_  _
/ ' (_(_/|_(_/_/\___/___/_<_/ <_</_
sproven@cs.strath.ac.uk             REAL (tm) peeps ride bike :)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: ebrandsm@prl.philips.nl (Ewout Brandsma)
Subject: Re: Cateye Vectra CC-7000 -- average speed?
Originator: ebrandsm@prl.philips.nl
Organization: Philips Research Laboratories, Eindhoven, The Netherlands
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 06:58:03 GMT


In article <1992Aug14.115350.10029@alf.uib.no> paulo@ii.uib.no (Paul Olav Tvete stipendiat) writes:
>In article <1992Aug14.090435.7117@prl.philips.nl> ebrandsm@prl.philips.nl >(Ewout Brandsma) writes:
>[Strange average speed behaviour]
>>Anyone experienced similar problems, or has an idea what causes them?

>Yes I've noticed it too, as well as a friend of mine. As far as I can
>see, the strange behaviour starts after about 2 hrs 46 minutes (or
>about ten thousand seconds)

The strange behaviour I experienced occurs a lot earlier already (I don't very
often bike for 10000 seconds or more :-( ).

>What I saw, when I was looking for it, was that the average speed declined
>gradually (when I was holding a steady speed above the displayed av. speed)
>and then suddenly jumped up. Then the pattern repeated. With an average
>speed of about 20 kph, the deviation was up to .5 kph.

>[rest of article deleted]

Ewout Brandsma (ebrandsm@prl.philips.nl).
From: dahls@fhydra.dnet.unit.no (Joern Yngve Dahl-Stamnes)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: light/battery comparisons?
Date: 19 Aug 92 18:06:29 GMT
Reply-To: dahls@fhydra.dnet.unit.no (Joern Yngve Dahl-Stamnes)
Organization: University of Trondheim, NORWAY

Thus spoke the keyboard of praetzel@marconi.uwaterloo.ca (Eric Praetzel):
>To figure out how long they are going to 
>last you look at the Amp-hour rating.
>  ie  D cells @ 4Ah * 12V = 48Wh   (ie V * A = Watts)
>     So you can power a 48 W lamp for 1 hour or a 24W lamp for 2 hours
>Of course in the cold you will find that the batteries do not last as long
>and/or may not work at all.

Note that if a NiCa D cell is rated 4000mAh (or 4Ah), this does not mean
you can get 1 Amp for 4 hours or 4 Amp for 1 hour! The correct is:

	4000 mAh @ 20 mA load!

And how much light do you get out of 20 mA? Not much. When the load is
higher than 20 mA, then the capasity is lower. For bike light the
capasity will be typical 2000 mAh and not 4000 mAh.

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+--+-+-+-+-+-+-+
* I went back to my mother,           * Joern Yngve Dahl-Stamnes           *
* I said, "I'm crazy ma, help me!"    * University of Trondheim            *
* She said, "I know how it feels son, * The Norwegian Institute of Tech.   *
* 'cause it runs in the family."      * Division of Physical Electronics   *
*       - The Who, Quadrophenia       * e-mail: dahls@fhydra.dnet.unit.no  *
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+--+-+-+-+-+-+-+
From: cam@castle.ed.ac.uk (Chris Malcolm)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: all theat fat
Date: 14 Aug 92 18:46:37 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

In article <1992Aug13.161026.20503@midway.uchicago.edu> holz@midway.uchicago.edu writes:

> There has not been a good correlation between exercise and
> low LDL levels (too much LDL=not a good thing). But there definitely has been
> been a good correlation between exercise and lack of hardened arteries.
> This has left researchers scratching there heads. But now they suggest
> that the exercise helps bloods vessels not get hardened by cholesterol.
> The theory is that high LDLs don't get you unless there are weaknesses in the
> vessels. Ie the LDLs dump the cholesterol into the vessel walls if the
> vessel walls have small imperfections in them.

Fascinating. Not my field at all, just the interested owner of an
arterial system, but I've thought something similar for years, i.e.,
that the fatty plaque which builds up in arteries might well be a repair
mechanism gone wrong. The fatty plaque will have two properties, the
smoothing of imperfections, thus reducing likelihood of clots forming,
and the plugging of small leaks. Now it is well known that alcohol is
one thing that increases the permeability of capillaries, to the point
that repeated indulgence causes permanent damage (e.g. red face). It
might therefore increase the permeability of larger vessels too, causing
fatty repairs, or perhaps the system simply reacts to leaking vessels
anywhere by pumping up the blood cholesterol content. There are probably
many other substances besides alcohol which damage the blood vessels,
and this may be the root of the problem, rather than the fats.
-- 
Chris Malcolm    cam@uk.ac.ed.aifh          +44 (0)31 650 3085
Department of Artificial Intelligence,    Edinburgh University
5 Forrest Hill, Edinburgh, EH1 2QL, UK                DoD #205
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: grande@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (brad.l.grande)
Subject: Re: Panniers
Organization: AT&T
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 17:22:33 GMT


I tried responding directly but got bounced so here it is.

[Question asked looking for panniers to carry notebooks in and asking questions
about Performance and Nashbar models.  Original post lost, so there!]

Tim,

I have the performance deluxe panniers which I use for commuting and like them
a lot.  I just tried a large three ring notebook to see if it would
fit for you and it DID NOT.  The bag is angled towards the forward bottom
side to leave room for your foot.  The binder only went in half way.

There have been comments here on the net regarding the nashbar attache'.  It
seems that this bag does not have the clearance for your foot and many have
complained that they were not able to use it.

As a suggestion, maybe you could come up with a flat box that sits on top of
your rear rack that you can keep your notebooks in, or even if you use a back-
pack, you could set it in the box and use a bungy cord to hold it in place.

Hope this helps,  don't give up, improvise!

Brad Grande	WB0OYX
Another bike riding beer brewing kite flying amateur radio operator who
	still likes CD's!

AT&T Bell Labs
Naperville Illinausea
PLEASE SEND RESPONSES TO:	grande@iwtil.att.com
att!iwtil!grande
(708)-979-7853



Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: Glenn Stauffer <stauffer@cc.swarthmore.edu>
Subject: Re: Pump lubrication
X-Xxdate: Thu, 13 Aug 92 00:51:11 GMT
Organization: Swarthmore College Computing Center
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d7
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 23:51:59 GMT

In article <081292.713629741@otto> Andrew Newman,
newman@otto.ycc.yale.edu writes:
>A while ago it was mentioned that you shouldn't use petroleum based
>grease to lubricate a bicycle pump mechanism.  Apparently it eats
>the inner tube (like vaseline through a condom).  Ok...so what
>*do* I use?  For that matter, what do the pump manufacturers use?
>I seem to recall that my Zefal pump had something that sure looked
>like regular bearing grease on it when I bought it.
>

When I bought my pump, the bike shop owner recommended WD40 which will
not cause rubber or plastic to deteriorate.
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: euahac@eua.ericsson.se (Hakan Carlson)
Subject: Re: Freewheels vs. Cassettes
Keywords: confused
Organization: Ellemtel Telecom Systems Labs, Stockholm, Sweden
Distribution: rec
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 12:24:52 GMT


In rec.bicycles you write:

>Greetings,

>Specifically:

>	3) Both of these companys seem to be making chain specifically
>	designed for their "systems" (Shimano hyperglide and Suntour
>	micro-drive).  Do these chains work even on the company's
>	low-end stuff?  Also, are there non-propriatary alternatives.

Do NOT use HYPERGLIDE chains of any kind(at least not with Shimano and
Sachs/Maillard/ARIS Freewheels). Get a SediSport(cheap) or SedisATB
chain instead.

This is not only hearsay but my own experience. In -91 I bought a new
bike(Bottecchia) with Ultegra and Hyperglide 7-spd cassette and the
bike shop installed a hyperglide chain. I never liked it, the shifting
was worse then on my old bike (with the same rear wheel) and 600EX
pre-SIS and when I used my Roval wheels with Maillard 6-spd freewheel
shifting was more or less disastrous(sp?).

This winter I changed the chain to SediSport and upgraded my Roval free-
wheel to 7-spd ARIS and the diffrence is enourmous. Now the bike 'shifts
like dream' with either of my rear wheels.

So stay away from Hyperglide chains but look for Hyperglide cassettes or
freewheels(ARIS is good to).


Hakan Carlson
ELLEMTEL Telecommunication Systems Laboratories
Stockholm
SWEDEN
MAIL: Hakan.Carlson@eua.ericsson.se
From: eugene@ksr.com (Eugene Yi-jen Pan)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: My Bicycle Helmet Experience
Date: 17 Aug 92 10:22:25 EDT
Organization: Kendall Square Research, Waltham, MA
In-reply-to: roat@rrc.chevron.com's message of 13 Aug 92 17:52:25 EDT



> Personally I enjoy reading about how peoples helmets saved them from injury.
> It makes me feel good.  Why do you feel compelled to criticize them?
> -Terry

In article <6034@lhdsy1.lahabra.chevron.com> roat@rrc.chevron.com (Suzanne Roat,Chevron,(510)242-5313) writes:
> 
> Helmetless bikers = organ donors (hope you carry your donor card when you ride).
> 

Because of bullshit, holier than thou, sensational statements like this one.
If people want to wear helmets, fine.  Just don't preach the total bullshit.
How many bicycle deaths are there a year?  How many helmetless bicyclists?  I
would guess many orders of magnitude difference.
From: jtp1@gte.com (John Pescatore)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Bicycling BBSs
Date: 21 Aug 92 18:36:50 GMT
Followup-To: PESCATORE_JT@NCSD.GTE.COM
Organization: GTE Laboratories, Waltham MA

This was posted a while ago and I lost it. Can someone email me the
list of cycling oriented landline (or other) bulletin board systems?
I know some of them are no longer valid, such as the LAW one, but I 
would still like to look into them.

Thanks, John Pescatore

-- 
John Pescatore
GTE Government Systems
301-294-8486
PESCATORE_JT@NCSD.GTE.COM
From: kpalm@athena.qualcomm.com (Kent Palm)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Heart Rate Monitors: What do you really use?
Date: 12 Aug 92 19:03:15 GMT
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA

sham@cs.arizona.edu (Shamim Zvonko Mohamed) writes:

>What features do you really need?

I use the target zone with alarms the most, especially for running.  It helps
me pace myself and it always pushes me to run faster when I slack off.  I'm
certain my running times are better because of it.  It also tells me when
I'm running too hard; this gives me a chance to slack off if so desired.  In
an endurance event, confidence in running at a specific target zone which
you specifically trained at can be a major boost.  It also takes into
account the tempature outside (i.e., your heart rate will be higher on hot
days because it is trying to cool itself down too).  This is something that
won't show when you run miles against the clock.

This works for bicycles as well, but stop signs, lights, etc. make it much
more difficult to stay in the target.  Instead, I've found it works much
better when riding rollers or stationary trainer.
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: byer@adobe.com (Scott Byer)
Subject: Re: Bicycle Paths
Reply-To: byer@adobe.com (Scott Byer)
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 17:15:32 GMT


No, I don't think gas taxes should be used to build bike
paths with - besides bicycle paths being dangerous,
cross-subsidization is bogus.

Gas taxes should be used to support automobile driving
- not to make it too expensive, not to subsidize public
transit.  Just to support automobile driving.

In order to do that, it has been recently estimated (in
the SF Bay Area at least) that gas taxes would need to
be $7 a gallon.  This is how much other taxes (paid by
those of us who don't drive, even) are currently
*subsidizing* the automobile.

This does *not* penalize the handicapped - it only raises
the cost to where *it should be*.  My brother, who is
handicapped, is *now* penalized by these automobile taxes,
even though he doesn't drive.  There are many like him,
who rely on public transit to get around.  But public
transit is in a sad shape from lack of use - and will
continue to be as long as *we keep paying people to
drive*.

I firmly believe in the free market system - it works
wonderfully *when the price of an item reflects it's
COST*.

The oposition to properly pricing the gas tax seems to
be loudly screemed by ego-centric people who love to be
paid to drive every time the proposal is brought up.  In
the face of the facts which can closely estimate what
the cost of driving really should be. (smiley for Bob
:-)

Scott Byer                                   NeXTMail: byer@adobe.com
Adobe Systems Incorporated               These are *my* opinions, and  
1585 Charleston Road, P.O. Box 7900        do not necessarily reflect
Mountain View, CA 94039-7900             the opinions of my employer.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
From: roth@3d.enet.dec.com (Jim Roth)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Land Rower
Date: 17 Aug 92 19:19:28 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation

I saw an unusual thing that the owner said was called a Land Rower.

Kind of a cross between a recumbent and a rowing machine.

Does anyone out there know how to get in touch with the manufacturer?

Send me mail as well as replying if you know about this (since I don't
usually have time to monitor this newsgroup.

Thanks!

    - Jim
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich)
Subject: Re: Gas Taxes R Us
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 20:14:40 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Distribution: rec.bicycles

In article <1992Aug19.180739.10650@ntmtv> adrian@ntmtv.UUCP (Adrian Brandt) writes:
>
>How so?  The NRPC (Amtrak) 1990 Annual Report states on page 14:
>"passenger-related revenues--derived from the sale of passenger tickets
>and on-board services--make up approximately 71 percent of Amtrak's
     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>revenue base".  So the American taxpayer can at best only be paying
>for about 29% of Amtrak's revenue base in the form of a subsidy.
>
If you will investigate this you will find that ticket prices and
money earned from on-board services are two different things. The
American taxpayer _is_ paying -- as you correctly quoted me --
for about half the _ticket_ fare.

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: harry@cv.hp.com (Harry Phinney)
Subject: Re: ULTRA marathon cycling
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 18:25:18 GMT

tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich) writes:
: Hmm, Harry, I think that I have already written many times that 
: the _motor_vehicle_ is the significant variable below the point
: at which rolling resistance is less than the power generated by
: the rider.

Later in the same posting you write:

: Harry, I'm quite willing to believe that there is some power
: input from the vortices formed behind a moving body.

OK.  You're willing to grant that there is some power input from the
vortices behind the fairing.  This means that in the very least you
agree that the rider does not have to overcome _all_ of the rolling
resistance.  Do you agree or disagree with Tim Smith's assertion that
the available power from the vortices will increase with the square of
the speed?  Do you agree or disagree that the power needed to overcome
the rolling resistance increases linearly?  If you agree with these two
points, you must agree with Tim's conclusion that there is a critical
speed above which there is surplus power to overcome the rolling
resistance.

Harry Phinney   harry@hp-pcd.cv.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: aviator@athena.mit.edu (Joakim Karlsson)
Subject: Re: Chain Cleaners
Organization: Flight Transportation Associates, Cambridge, MA
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 22:01:22 GMT

In article <4bCV02iu1e9n01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> msw10@nepenthe.as writes:
> Citra-Solv is *much* more potent and effective...

Where, in general, do you find this product?  Hardware store?  Bike store?
Paint store?  Citra-Solv-'R-Us?  ...Joakim
--
Joakim Karlsson            | aviator@athena.mit.edu
Flying Fanatic in Training | Air: PP-ASEL  CAP: Freedom 110 Mobile  FCC: N1JHW
                 "Oh, I have slipped the surly bonds of earth
                And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings"
From: rschetge%arrl.org (Bob Schetgen)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Casio altimeter source
Keywords: Avocet 50 altitude climb watch
Date: 13 Aug 92 09:05:29 EDT
Organization: American Radio Relay League

There has some discussion here of the Casio Alti-Depth 
watch. I just received the summer/fall catalog from J&R 
Music World. The Casio ARW-320 Alti-Depth watch appears on p 
48. It costs $69.95. Here's the address and phone number:

     J&R Music World
     Department 204
     59-50 Queens-Midtown Expressway
     Maspeth, NY 11376-9896

     1-800-221-8180
     fax 1-718-497-1791

In addition, J&R has a retail store at 23 Park Row, New York 
City. Product and store information is available at 
1-212-732-8600.

I have not ordered anything from J&R, but I've been 
receiving their catalogs for a couple of years..
From: kmb@controls.ccd.harris.com (Kurt Brunton)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Drillium
Date: 13 Aug 92 10:46:17 GMT
Organization: Harris Controls
Originator: kmb@rs2


	I have some old components sitting around and the thought occurred to me
of drilling these out to make some light weight parts.  Is there anyone who knows
of the best way to drill components, i.e. where to drill and how much can be
drilled before substantially weakening the component.  I've got old nouvo and
super record, mavic, shimano 600 and dura ace stuff.  E-mail or post.  Thanks,

Kurt 
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles,ont.general,can.general,soc.culture.canada,ott.general
From: richard@csi.on.ca (Richard Martin)
Subject: Re: Car inspections..
Organization: Carp Systems International, Kanata, ON
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 15:11:39 GMT

ANNOUNCEMENT!
Everything written by me in the original
posting was wholly inaccurate.  I'm sorry.
You can all go home now, there's nothing
more to see.
Richard.
Sorry.
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: sery@crunch.unm.edu (sery)
Subject: Re: Drillium
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 23:44:38 GMT
Organization: /usr/local/lib/rn/organization

Kurt Brunton writes:
> I have some old components sitting around and the thought occurred to me
> of drilling these out to make some light weight parts.  Is there anyone
> who knows of the best way to drill components
>
Gosh I miss the '70s.

Seriously, though, I wouldn't do it.  The weight savings are miniscule and 
you run the risk of breaking the equipment.

Back in the '70s drilling equipment was the fashion.  I think we did it 
because the Europros did it (or at least we imagined they did it).  The
equipment broke and was almost certainly aerodynamically inferior.

Paul Sery
Albuqerque, NM

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: tr@samadams.princeton.edu (Tom Reingold)
Subject: Re: Drillium
Organization: Noo Joizy, USA
Date: 20 Aug 92 02:25:24 GMT

Harry Phinney writes:

$ [...] Those levers (Universals) never failed me.  I
$ might still use them if I could get hoods :-(, although their mechanical
$ advantage is poor.

BRANDT_JOBST/HP1900_01@HPLOMG.HPL.HP.COM writes:

$ I think you will find that all brake levers with few exceptions have a
$ mechanical advantage of 4:1 and that calipers and other devices have a
$ mean mechanical advantage of 1:1.  This can be measured.  On the lever
$ the geometric dimensions can be measured and on the brake end, cable
$ travel to pad travel can be measured.

Universal brand levers seem to be an exception.  They have noticeably
less leverage than all of the others.  A rider does not have to measure
this to notice the difference.  Still, I'll try to dig mine out this
weekend and measure them.
--
        Tom Reingold
        tr@samadams.princeton.edu  OR  ...!princeton!samadams!tr
        "Warning: Do not drive with Auto-Shade in place.  Remove
        from windshield before starting ignition."
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: aaronson@wk113.nas.nasa.gov (Philip G. Aaronson)
Subject: Re: Trek & MTB Sponsorship?
Organization: NASA Ames Research Center
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 21:55:38 GMT

In article <92225.090323U3C@psuvm.psu.edu>, U3C@psuvm.psu.edu writes:
|> [Some stuff deleted]
|> is only sponsered by NUKE PROOF (a small mich. company who makes
|> carbon fiber products) who also sponsor Dave (something) who shocked
|> the pro's with a top 10 finish at the Norba national opener....Hats
|> off to NukeProof for supporting these riders but they deserve more...
|> Every other major player in the MTB industry (giant, Schwinn, cannondale
|> , GT) sponser teams....come on TREK .... give something back
|> 
Give something back? I've never heard advertising called that before
but I guess you can call it anything you want :) I suspect 
NukeProof is expecting a return on their investment and I think your
reaction proved that they did indeed. IMHO you've been reading to 
much Mountain Bike Action :)

When did I get this cynical?

Later,
Red