HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: leonard@mimsy.umd.edu (Leonard Dickens)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: opening SB ogg
Date: 10 Apr 92 04:05:09 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Universal Export Ltd, Regent's Park, London

Ray Jones writes:
>[me]
>>Tetsu Takekoshi writes:
>>>[how should one counter the initial 8 BB ogg tactic?]
>>
>>Sure.  Cloak, head to the home planet with shields down.  Keep the
>>shields downs.  As soon as the horde shows up and manages to hit you
>>the first few times, just sit and det until you wtemp/are up to 300
>>damage or so.  (By this time they should be threatening hundreds of
>>damage per second from phaser shots.)  Refit into an AS and die as
>>appropriate.  
>
>	You can't refit when significantly hurt/out of
>fuel/etc.  
>(*tink* *tink* <attempt at refit> "Oh @^$#%!" <phasers> *BOOM*)

You must be careful about it... you can refit in any ship when you are:
 (1) Under 75% damage  (400 or less in a base)
 (2) Over 75% fuel   (45000 or more in a base)
 (3) Over 75% shields  (333 or more in a base)
Thus you can soak up a pretty large helping of punishment in the base
before refitting.  (Of course this should happen pretty fast with 8
BBs dishing it out.)


>>Then laugh hysterically at all the useless BB's in your
>>space, while their space is being quickly flattened.  (Return in an SC
>>and run quickly.)  Do not kill any of them; just tractor them off of
>>your planets until they kill you.  Be annoying.  As soon as your team
>>starts to return from the dead, return in a BB, kill them all, then
>>get into the SB and guard the armies that should still be intact.
>
>	So you've defended the home planet, and several
>others against 8 BBs while in an SC.  Not likely, I
>think.   Maybe kept them from one or two, but not as
>many I Think as if your team was alert ("look, they're
>all in BBs") and you just statyed in the SB with one or
>two escorts.

Look, 7 AS will bomb the enemy space far flatter than 8 BBs in a given
period of time, even if the BBs were going directly to the planets,
which they will not.  About the same time you have bombed 7 enemy
planets flat and are going for the dessert planets, they should be
killing the SB/AS, with *zero* of your armies dead.  Now your guys
gang up on the remaining 3 enemy planets, while you harrass the BB
horde trying to keep them off of your planets.  (They will just kill
you repeatedly, but that is OK as it expends their time and fuel.)  By
the time they have bombed down at the absolute max 8 of your planets,
your guys have all died and the enemy space is flat flat flat.  Now
you reenter in a base and have a 60 army lead, and a base with escorts
available.

-Wreck



Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 04:44:10 -0400 
From: "Julian L. Ho" <jh6j+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: regarding phaser locks, galactic map

Also, I've switched the cursor I use when playing netrek.  It is cursor
128 (I have "(cursor-make 128)" in my .gwmrc).  You can see in the
center of it.  I just realized this *might* make seeing what I'm
phasering easier (I switched because of a bug in the client, not for
any improved visibility).

ensign
From: fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: UDP client bug
Date: 16 Apr 92 18:34:02 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <74233@netnews.upenn.edu> paulsen@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Commodore FreeKill) writes:
>This bug is rare and I've seen it happen only a few times.  When I die, I think
>the packet that informs that I'm dead gets lost.  What happens then is that I
>watch the sector of the galaxy where I died.  I watch it for about 3-4 minutes.
>Then I get the initial team select screen.  However, I can't pick any team.
>Instead, I have to kill my process.  The server also has to wait about the
>customary amount of time before it frees my slot.

This is known as the Eeek! phenomenon.  It seemed to happen to Nanci more often
than anybody else during UDP development.

I'm still not entirely sure what causes it.  The actual "you have died" and
"you have been reborn" packets are sent via TCP, so that isn't the problem.
There are some initial "welcome to the game" packets which can be dropped,
but those usually just result in you being (apparently) in the middle of
nowhere until you click your mouse and get a new ship update.

(The initial problem that Nanci dug up was caused by a flaw in the sequence
checking stuff... when a UDP packet arrived out of sequence, it was dropped...
and so was all the TCP traffic that arrived in the mean time.  Apparently
Nanci was blessed with a site that liked to send packets out of order, so it
happened fairly often.)

I was able, once, to simulate this problem in BROKEN+HOSED mode (90% packet
loss), but I tweaked something and the problem went away.  I thought.

>Also, I know this bug isn't due to network failure, because I can watch the
>game progress, and other people in the lab have no difficulties.

It could be any number of things.  The UDP code is a possibility though.

>A) What causes this?

Haven't the faintest.  However, if you look in ntserv/socket.c (?) you'll see
some #ifdef MAYBE code which tried to force transmissions through TCP when
you were dead and the first transmission after you became reborn.  I don't
know if this will help or not; it made the send routine more complicated
though, and I removed it when it didn't seem to be doing much.

>B) Assuming that kills by Ghostbusters are rare now with the UDP protocol,
>   wouldn't it make sense to change the slot freeing time to something more
>   reasonable?  Maybe after about 30 seconds, the slot gets freed...

I've been locked out waiting to get back in for 30 seconds.  This was on
Bronco during early UDP testing; for some reason the network performance took
a serious nose-dive, and I was tossing UDP packets left and right.  TCP was...
amusing.  I'd get a burst of messages once every 20-30 seconds.

So, while being spaced for 30 seconds during play probably won't happen, it
*could* happen after you get killed and are trying to get back in.

>Brian

-- 
fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
[ Above opinions are mine, Amdahl has nothing to do with them, etc, etc. ]
From: zog@strawberry.udel.edu (Zo(schwa))
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: New HOREMAN OF THE APOCALYPSE....
Date: 15 Apr 92 15:14:17 GMT
Organization: University of Delaware, Newark


	I think the next HORSEMAN... should be...

			Schwing!

							-dan/zog
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek,alt.games.xtrek
From: mccoy@ils.nwu.edu (Jim Mccoy)
Subject: Re: Random bit of detail
Reply-To: mccoy@ils.nwu.edu
Organization: The Institute for the Learning Sciences
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 21:35:34 GMT

In article <SFRAZIER.92Apr4140515@cs.ulowell.edu> sfrazier@cs.ulowell.edu (Scott Frazier) writes:
> )>	I'm planning to change the server code such that torps/phasers
> )>damage anything they hit.  The idea that a torp won't kill you because
> )>someone on your team shot it is kinda silly.  I want to allow for
> )>"friendly fire" and see how things work out.

Andy McFadden writes:
> ) [Newbies will toast their own teammates]

Why limit this to newbies.  Everyone will end up toasting their teammates.
Kilss by friendly fire will be inversely proportional to clue quotient and
directly proportional to server lag.

David Goldfarb writes:
> [Deliberate traitors will also be a problem]

Here are a few more reason not to do this:

-The easiest way to ogg a base would be to cloak a scout ship and run
 around the base as fast as you can; the torps of those protecting the base
 would nuke the base

-It becomes impossible to find cloakers in a LPS because with any sort of
 lag you will end up toasting your own people trying to get the scum

I can think of at least 10 reason why this SHOULD NOT be implemented.  How
about giving a few reasons why it should?  Realism is not a part of netrek
and I do not think it would be a good idea to try to implement it.

jim
-- 
------------------------------< Jim McCoy >------------------------------------
j-mccoy@nwu.edu                     |  "I'd love to stay and chat, but I'm
mccoy@ils.nwu.edu                   |   having an old friend for dinner..."
#include <disclaimer.h>             |              -Dr. Hannibal Lector
-----------------------<"To thine own self be true">--------------------------
From: ccastdg@prism.gatech.EDU (Davide Gaetano)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: xtrek servers ?
Date: 6 Apr 92 05:46:21 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology


  Can anyone tell me where I can find a copy of the server code
  that contains galaxy class ships that is EASY to compile ??

Davide Gaetano
ccastdg@hydra.gatech.edu
From: tom@ocf.berkeley.edu (Tom Holub)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Upenn against any CMU team
Date: 11 Apr 92 23:52:33 GMT
Article-I.D.: agate.s7u41INNmqq
Organization: U. C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
NNTP-Posting-Host: monsoon.berkeley.edu

In article <kdtnVx200awgEETEhy@andrew.cmu.edu> ds50+@andrew.cmu.edu (Donald Alan Sutton) writes:
)
)I remember a game, fuzzily, before the INL even came into existance
)where it was CMU's best verse Berkely's best played on an away server
)for both (somewhere in the middle of the country I believe).  CMU
)GENOCIDED in something like 30 minutes.  Done. Gone. A clueful team can
)"easily" be genocided if the game is not played at home.  The difference
)between me taking your agri home planet and my death has often been 1
)torp....... And with lag your gonna miss!

This is true.  Even in our game against Darkhorse they had us down
to Earth; now, they may not have been able to genocide us with
a homeworld agri if we hadn't been ghostbusted, but it's not
beyond the realm of possibility.  I actually feel fairly satisfied
with the way we played against Darkhorse; we were ogging at the right
times and we were generally defending our planets, but our oggs and
our defense were neutralized by lag (I know I had Warlock, who
started out the game with a 13 kill run and a few planets, totally
dead twice and was unable to kill him because of lag).

And I disagree that it's impossible to genocide a clueful team.  I am
of the opinion that the advantage always goes to the attacker, even in
a last planet stand.  The reason defenders do well in last planet
stands is because it's easy to get the whole team to participate
in an LPS and it's difficult to get the whole team to participate
in attacking one.  But that shouldn't be a problem with organized teams.

One other note: we played like hosers in that All-Star game.  It was
our first tournament game, and it was against people who had played
in a bunch of tournaments.  The lag was also heinous, but we would
have lost anyway.

We've come a long way from that.  Go Bears!
 -Mojo
From: mj1g+@andrew.cmu.edu (Michael Juster)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Team Wizard (was Re: Penn and the INL)
Date: 13 Apr 92 06:00:05 GMT
	<1992Apr9.111441.2656@hellgate.utah.edu>
	<0dtHLAG00VpZ06iktU@andrew.cmu.edu>
Organization: Junior, Chemical Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 10-Apr-92 Team Wizard (was Re:
Penn a.. Court Demas@andrew.cmu.e (1235)

> Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 9-Apr-92 Re: Penn and the INL
> Michael Moore@cs.utah.ed (846)


> > 	Are you folks trying to tell me that Team Wizard can genocide an
> > organized, cluefull team?  

> Easily.


We'll see when we meet you in the Final Game.

-Mike
Admiral chi
Leader of the CMU-Based Tournament Team Be Like Mike
Member of Team Akira - CMU1
From: paulsen@stipple.seas.upenn.edu (Brian Paulsen )
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Ogging and other Arcane Terms
Date: 7 Apr 92 22:47:30 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <ku4947INNdrq@corvus.usc.edu> rone@corvus.usc.edu (Man on a Mission) writes:
>In article <1992Apr7.212130.20194@actrix.gen.nz> Andrew.Merton@bbs.actrix.gen.nz writes:

[What is ogging?]

>Kamikaze attacks. What *I* want to know is what is the origin of the term...

If I remember correctly, Terence (bronco server god) played a character named
Og.  He started the concept of ogging.  He did so much, and so well, that the
term was named after him.

Brian
From: paulsen@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Brian Paulsen )
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Penn and the INL
Date: 10 Apr 92 01:54:41 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <1992Apr9.200620.17241@wuecl.wustl.edu> von@wucs1.wustl.edu (Steve Von Worley) writes:
>In article <73448@netnews.upenn.edu> paulsen@widget.seas.upenn.edu (Brian Paulsen ) writes:
>>In article <1992Apr8.230740.3577@wuecl.wustl.edu> von@wucs1.wustl.edu (Steve Von Worley) writes:

>Cool.  I don't mean to take anything away from you and your team with these
>postings.  Our team has also gotten better since our scrimmage.

Again, I don't want to take anything from your team, but I'll state now that if
my mouse didn't die when we still had more than our core planets, you would not
have genocided us.

>I, however, must disagree that genocide is an impossibility.
>You are a decent player, and your team has some decent players, but everyone
>on Wizard is excellent.  They have on their team the two best oggers, best 
>planet taker, perhaps the best escort, and best all around player that I 
>have ever seen.

Again, I'm glad I don't play Wizard.  I play against Akira.  I think Wizard is
the best team in the INL.

>I only PREDICT a genocide, based on previous matches and bronco experience.
>Who knows, you might win!  or come out with 1 or two planets!  or lose 
>everything in three minutes!

If we were to play Wizard, I don't think we would win.  Who knows, though. We
definitely will not get genocided.  I could give them all but our home planet,
be down to 1 army on our home planet, and start from there.  We would still not
be genocided.  A homeworld agri is IMPOSSIBLE to genocide against a clueful
team.  By the time that they had kills, we would have 4 armies on the planet.
Whoever got the kills would then be ogged mercilessly.  Anybody coming near
the planet would be ogged mercilessly.  The people on our teams with 2+ kills
would refit into BB's and kill the straggling people who make it to the planet
with plasmas, torps, and phasers.

FreeKill
From: mj1g+@andrew.cmu.edu (Michael Juster)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: CMU teams and Genocides
Date: 13 Apr 92 06:20:45 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Junior, Chemical Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 11-Apr-92 CMU teams and
Genocides Superman@web-2h.berkeley (307)

> I honestly do believe that a CMU team would 
> never be genocided.


The only way a CMU team could be genocided is for them to never see the
genocide.

It is possible to have a nice LONG lag where the opppsing team takes all
your planets and leaves you with your pants down.......but this could
only happen during an away game and probably would have to be a server
as far away as like Mars :-)

-Mike
Admiral chi   (Who just felt like posting more posts right now than his
total from before)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: hamaguch@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Ron Hamaguchi)
Subject: Empire
Organization: University of Hawaii
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 16:13:44 GMT


    Sorry to ask this question, and it may sound silly to some, but...

  How different is Netrek from its ancestor Empire on PLATO?
  From everything that I have read about so far, it seems that on
  most servers there are only 2 races battling at a time, instead of 
  the 4 from Empire.  I was just wondering because soon, hopefully,
  I will be able to try and join in on some of the fun of netrek 
  with friends from Univ. of Hawaii-Manoa.  I really just want to know
  what it is like and how different it is from Empire.

  Any Info Much Appreciated

+----------------------------------+------------------------------------------+
| Ron Hamaguchi                    |One of the 50th's States' Little Known but|
| hamaguch@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu  |Loyal Lovely Angels Fans.                 |
+----------------------------------+------------------------------------------+
|  WWWA    We'll Solve Any Problem For You, And We'll Send You Our Best!      |
|          Yuri And Kei Are On Their Way!!!                                   |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: labc-3ae@e260-2b.berkeley.edu (Superman)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Tetsudo vs Masters REsults
Date: 12 Apr 1992 19:10:41 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: e260-2b.berkeley.edu
Originator: labc-3ae@e260-2b.berkeley.edu


"We have the power!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
				-Masters
From: takekosh@aludra.usc.edu (Tetsu Takekoshi)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Common and Uncommon netrek terms
Date: 16 Apr 1992 14:55:25 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu

In article <1992Apr16.191403.21749@ils.nwu.edu> shafto@ils.nwu.edu (Eric Shafto) writes:
>One frequent jargon I have not been able to understand is "planet
>scum".  When is it ever bad (or advancing your DI at the expense of
>your team, or whatever) to take a planet?

it is bad to take planets you know your team can't possibly defend
(too deep in enemy space).  in fact it is usually just a plain waste
of armies.

it is also bad to use all your team's armies to "soft-kill"  (leave just
one friendly army on) multiple planets.  they are much easier for the 
enemy to take back.

Crunchy Frog
From: cd2a+@andrew.cmu.edu (Court Demas)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Scout Bombing and Other Stuff
Date: 14 Apr 92 05:24:29 GMT
Organization: Sophomore, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 13-Apr-92 Scout Bombing and
Other Stuff William Gilliland@milton (1527)

> My question is this.  Even when we were down to LPS, I kept on scoutbombing.
> Should I have stopped to help defend in the LPS?  If so, when should I have
> stopped -- when we were down to 4 planets, or what?

I kinda differ from Terence/Red Shirt on this one - I think you should
have somebody scout-bombing right up until the bitter end.  The only
time you should stop is if you team is *completely* clueless and you
think you're the only one that can stop the genocide (in which case
you'll be genocided anyways - so who cares?)

Scout-Bombing is much more than it seems.  It helps by:
1) taking armies away from the other team (duh)
2) keeping them busy (or at least a bit anxious) about having somebody
in their space
and (in a LPS) most importantly..
3) to see who is picking up (by having somebody in their space)

#3 is the real key, because (obviously) the whole point of your defense
is to ogg the planet-takers (especially since it's usually difficult to
keep 19 planets bombed flat 100% of the time).  if everybody's sitting
around the last planet in BB's then you're giving the other team a real
advantage - you'll just see 8 cloakers come in and you won't know which
one to shoot at.  if you have a (decent) bomber, you will know exactly
who/when/how many armies somebody just picked up and where they're
headed.

> I'm going to keep playing bronco... having to go up against tough players may
> be bad for the ratios but its great experience... thats how I got good at
> Street Fighter II.  I never knew most of the things a scout could do until
> I played one for (groan) 8 hours...

aren't they great??  :-)


> [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
> Captain (Calvin) Commander (Bezier, Bronco)

-psycho bomber
From: paulsen@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Admiral deathstar)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: INL games and UDP
Date: 17 Apr 92 15:36:41 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

Upenn will be using UDP in the rest of its home matches in the INL.  Due
to the fact that this is our last week of school and then we have finals,
I don't know if we would be able to make the playoff games.  If we can,
great.  If not, either we forfeit or another team can replace us.  However,
just in case we can't make it, I would like to play the remaining games
under UDP so that the game can be more enjoyable for both teams.

Brian
From: sfrazier@bigmax.ulowell.edu (Stupendous Man!)
Subject: Re: Conceited Arrogant Assholes
Organization: The Naughty Peahen Party Line
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 21:01:35 GMT



	Maybe we should split rec.games.netrek into two groups?  We could
call them rec.games.netrek and rec.games.bullshit.misc.  I agree that
this self-promotion of INL teams really sucks.  I don't know why people
want to "be known."  The less information your enemy has at his/her
disposal, the better.  

							My $0.02.

								S.

--

Scott W. Frazier                                sfrazier@cs.ulowell.edu
Systems Office, x3636				sfrazier@dragon.cpe.ulowell.edu
From: paulsen@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Brian Paulsen )
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Conceited Arrogant Assholes
Date: 12 Apr 92 01:55:07 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <4dtt2kK00VpFIDOUNs@andrew.cmu.edu> kb32+@andrew.cmu.edu (Kevin Michael Bernatz) writes:
>Hmmm,
>	It seems this board has become swamped with a bunch of Conceited
>Arrogant Assholes.

I agree.  I'll be the first to step in line as a Conceited Arrogant Asshole.
However, it's a long line and if I don't hurry, I might not be first :)

>I always thought that the beauty of Netrek was that
>talk was cheap, and everyone knew who they respected.  All this Horseman
>and UPenn bullshit is getting out of hand.

I agree.  Chris (Mr. Wizard) sent me mail about scheduling a match.  Again, for
me to schedule a match is not fair to ANY INL team tht has yet to play us.
If you want to schedule a match, ask Masters if they mind that we pay you
instead of making time to play them...  I know I'd be pissed if Masters played
against someone else when they had time to play us.

>All the horsemen are decent players, that's a fact not an opinion.

I never doubted this.  As I've said, the horsemen are not individually the BEST
8 players at CMU.  They are certainly very good.  However, what they lose in
raw skill, they more than gain in being teamwork oriented.  I've seen many of
their players be an EXTREMELY helpful team player on bronco.

>Upenn has FreeKill and Hector
>(and I'd be willing to bet others that I don't know).  Both are also
>clued, though Hector is similar to Fury in being a planet scum. 

There are several others who are clued.  The rest are skilled, but not very
clued.  Hopefully, this problem will be fixed.

>I don't
>know who started the "we're better than you " shit, but I used to think
>that a few people were above it, Rob...Don.....   Don't let your rank go
>to your head, you both know what respect is and why/how it's gotten.

It isn't really a "we're better than you" argument.  I'll admit that they are,
in fact, better than us.  I've never denied this.  What they are arguing is
that we'll be genocided.  Until w play Akira, we should all probably just keep
our mouths shut.  After that, we (well, actually half of us) can all point at
each other and say childishly, "I told ya so!"

>If everyone else wants to act like an ass, it doesn't mean you have to too.

I agree.  I've been trying to defend our name, but I probably made some harsh
accusations in the process.  Sorry to whomever was offended.

Look at the bright side, when people are accused of wasting bandwidth, that
means we are losing THESE articles...

>-KB
> A very disappointed Rear Admiral Akira

FreeKill