HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Playing strategy's and counting systems
From: glen@galileo.physics.arizona.edu (Glen Sonnenberg)
Date: 14 Apr 92 10:41:58 MST
Distribution: world,local
Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson AZ

I am new to this group and I am just starting to learn how to use playing
strategy's and counting systems when I play blackjack.  I have written a 
simple blackjack simulator which plays hands based on a playing strategy
and betting strategy.  I need some new systems which I can test on my
program.  Can someone out there send me a couple of playing strategies
and/or counting/betting strategies so I can test my program?  Also, can
someone tell me where the FAQ for blackjack is located?  Thanks.
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: ronnie@cisco.com (Ronnie B. Kon)
Subject: Re: <None>
Organization: cisco Systems, Incorporated
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 22:59:26 GMT

In article <1992Apr3.155120.1@jaguar.uofs.edu>, jcs6@jaguar.uofs.edu writes:
|> Here it is I'm a craps player myself.  Yes you can win at craps.  I've just
|> managed to break even myself though.  Anybody got any great strategies 
|> out there.  I personally like to bet against seven myself and go real slow.
|> 
|> Well hope somebody somewhere writes something

I'll be happy to fade you at casino odds.  But why go slow--let's make the
bets big so you win more of my money even faster.

				Ronnie

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ronnie B. Kon           |  "If you vote Republican, does that make you
ronnie@cisco.com        |   an accomplice to their crimes?"
(415) 688-4592          |                  -- Bongo, Life in Hell
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: olsonb@mac.cc.macalstr.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Horse racing
Date: 14 Apr 92 09:18:12 -0600
Organization:  

In article <1992Apr10.180008.19131@mips2.ma30.bull.com>, moscatel@granite.ma30.bull.com (Joseph Moscatelli) writes:
> In article <1992Apr8.160710.2397@mac.cc.macalstr.edu> olsonb@mac.cc.macalstr.edu writes:

>>I usually get a paper the night before and plan to spend at least a couple
>>hours on it.  I used to read the Daily Racing Form, but if they've got
>>an edition of the Racing Times near you, I suggest that.  If you've been

> As far as I know, the Racing Times (which I also preferred) has been defunct
> for a couple of months.

Whoops -- you're right, of course.  The Racing Times was financed by 
(Robert?) Maxwell, and when his empire crumbled after his death, the
Times got in real trouble.  Shut down suddenly about six weeks ago.

Too bad, too.  It was a GREAT paper.  Wonder what Steve Crist is gunna'
do now?  I hear he surfaced on Harvey Pack's show a couple weeks ago, 
but didn't say anything about his plans.  I'd be interested in knowing
who he starts writing for.

Thanks for the correction/update; I've obviously lost touch since leaving 
New York!

> -- 
>  == Joseph A. Moscatelli                ==
>  == Bull HN Information Systems         ==
>  == j.moscatelli@granite.ma30.bull.com  == 

/beth
***
"A bad day at the track is better than a good day anywhere else"
                                                -Andy Beyer
***  
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: cheese@next05wor.wam.umd.edu (Jason Steinhorn)
Subject: Re: Pai Gow Poker
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 17:09:58 GMT

In article <1992Apr17.022209.23637@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>  
jacko@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Jacko) writes:
> In article <1992Apr16.215603.24347@midway.uchicago.edu>  
kolt@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
> >In article <1992Apr16.211208.15016@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>  
jacko@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Jacko) writes:
> > > In article <1992Apr16.215603.24347@midway.uchicago.edu>  
kolt@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
> > > >In article <1992Apr16.211208.15016@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>  
jacko@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Jacko) writes:
> > > > >In article <1992Apr16.215603.24347@midway.uchicago.edu>  
kolt@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
> > > > > > >In article <1992Apr16.211208.15016@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>  
jacko@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Jacko) writes:
> > > > > > > >In article <1992Apr16.215603.24347@midway.uchicago.edu>  
kolt@midway.uchicago.edu writes:


Jacko, according to my records, it's officially your turn to respond.

Jason
cheese@wam.umd.edu
From: jsp@uts.amdahl.com (James Preston)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: "Diamonds are Forever"
Date: 17 Apr 92 16:54:48 GMT
Reply-To: jsp@pls.amdahl.com
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

twc@svcs1.UUCP (Ted Chan) writes:

}Umm, wouldn't an experienced craps player (with some common sense knowledge
}of stats) come to the same conclusion as the computer in the movie
}_War Games_ - namely that there is no point in playing this game?  (Assume
}here for the sake of argument that the only goal here is making money and
}further assume that the die aren't loaded...)

Right.  I guess all those people I always see crowding around the craps
table are rank novices who know nothing about the game.

Did you have a point to make, or do you just like taking opportunites
to call craps players stupid?

--James Preston
From: hack@arabia.uucp (Edmund Hack)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: 1-Deck Shuffler at Casino Royale?
Summary: Anyone seen it?
Date: 13 Apr 1992 16:42:21 GMT
Organization: Lockheed ESC, Houston

The latest Las Vegas Advsior (4/92 - new and improved design) has a blurb 
on a new mechanical shuffler in use at the Casino Royale in Las Vegas.  The
machine shuffles one deck and places it in a shoe.  It is said to be in use
at all of their 1-deck Blackjack games.  In addition, the article seems to
imply that the casino deals out some % of the deck as opposed to one round
only.  Anyone know for sure?

Finally, the article mentions that this could lead to 1 deck BJ in the east,
Atlantic City, where hand-held games are prohibited.

-- 
| Edmund Hack - Lockheed Engineering & Sciences Co. - Houston, TX
| hack@aio.jsc.nasa.gov    SpokesPersonp(Me,or(NASA,LESC)) = NIL
| "See the constellation ride across the sky.  No cigar, no lady on
| his arm. Just a guy made of dots and lines." - They Might Be Giants
From: jschwarz@lonestar.utsa.edu (Jan A. Schwarz)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Weather in LV
Date: 15 Apr 92 19:09:10 GMT
Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio


  Could someone tell me real quick what the weather is like in
  Las Vegas?  Temperature, etc.

  We will be going this weekend.

  Thanks in advance.

  Jan

-- 
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: chris@dsndata.uucp (Chris Jenny)
Subject: Re: what happened to the inside stuff on the dogs?
Organization: Design Data
	<1992Apr12.182123.29994@ringer.cs.utsa.edu>
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 19:01:16 GMT

In article <1992Apr12.182123.29994@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> tmcdonal@ringer.cs.utsa.edu (Tom McDonald) writes:

> From: tmcdonal@ringer.cs.utsa.edu (Tom McDonald)
> 
> In his early twenties my uncle worked for a dog track in Iowa.  There was a dog
> that was finishing first every race by a wide margin every time there.  When
> it came time for him to race again, my Dad went over to make a few bucks off
> him.  The odds were almost even money, but he was going to place a fairly large
> bet, so he didn't care.  Before he bet, his brother (my uncle) warned him not
> to; that the dog wouldn't even finish in the money.  The day before the race
> the dog had had his toenails clipped, he told.  My Dad reluctantly didn't bet
> on that dog.  The race started, and the dog leaped out to a quick start, but 
> it hadn't gone more than 50 yards when it slowed _way_ down.  It finished last,
> and almost everyone in the place had bet on him.  The race supposedly wasn't 
> fixed, but this seems like one of the easist ways of doing it to me.
> 
> 						-Tom

I bet that the trifecta on that race was a whopper.

Interesting story Tom.  An ex-track bettor once told me that a common
practice among dog kennels is to worm all the dogs at once.  He said
the if you notice the majority of dogs from a certain kennel doing 
especially bad it could be something of this nature.  Any comments
from dog people on this?

chris


--

Chris Jenny    Design Data Inc.   Lincoln, Nebraska   { dsndata!chris }
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: dt@cbnews.cb.att.com (timothy.e.daughters)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Kelly Criterion after initial bet
Date: 8 Apr 92 16:47:33 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: AT&T

I have been giving some thought to how the Kelly Criterion applies to wagers
after your initial bet.  One simple example is insurance.  Suppose that your
counting system says that before the deal, you have a 2% expectation on your
next bet, and you bet 2% of your bankroll.  Then, the dealer shows an ace,
and your counting system says that insurance has a positive EV, but that
the EV is only 1%.  Since the Kelly Criterion in this situation says that
you should only bet 0.5% of your bankroll (not 1% because of the 2 to 1 
payoff), you shouldn't take full insurance.  That is, if your initial bet
was $20, your insurance bet should only be $5.  That is sure to raise some
eyebrows, and the situation doesn't come up often enough to worry about.
Of course, if the count is just over the insurance threshhold, and you have
a big bet out, Kelly may be telling you that full insurance isn't worth the
risk even though it has a positive EV, and maybe you should pass on it.

Now, on to some more interesting situations:  How does the Kelly Criterion
affect other plays that involve putting more money on the table?  All of
the split and double down decisions are based solely on EV, but maybe the
added EV is not worth the added risk.  I am sure that this is true at the
decision levels where you start to split tens or double down with soft 20
maybe even when you start doubling with 8 or 10 vs 10.  

Has anyone done any analysis in this vein?  If not, how about some raw
data on the EV of splitting tens vs standing at various true counts?
-- 
Tim Daughters			"I had no shoes and I pitied myself.
AT&T Bell Laboratories		 Then I met a man who had no feet,
North Andover, MA		 so I took his shoes."   --  Dave Barry
From: Dave.Mortimer@bird.com (Dave Mortimer)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: THE ROCKETEER
Date: 16 Apr 92 03:53:00 GMT

Does anyone Know the last level password?

 * Origin: (1:107/323@FidoNet)
From: Dave.Mortimer@bird.com (Dave Mortimer)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: CHEATS/CRACKS
Date: 16 Apr 92 03:54:00 GMT

Does anybody want cheats or cracks? Call SATRFLEET BBS. Were particluarly
looking for cracks on Might and Magic 3, The Rocketter, Elivra 2 and any other
game. Were are also seraching for Cheats on MIght and Magic 3, Twillight 2000,
Nova 9, Conan the Cimmeran, The Simpsons, Lord of the Rings and f-14 Tomcat. 

 * Origin: (1:107/323@FidoNet)
From: venkataraman@misvax.mis.arizona.edu (Remesh Venkataraman)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: $5 min BJ in AC on Friday eve./Saturday ?
Date: 10 Apr 92 00:41:00 GMT
Organization: University of Arizona MIS Department
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

Is it possible to find these tables anywhere in AC ? How about on Saturday evening

Thanks,
-ramesh
========================================================================
Standard Disclaimers Apply
University of Arizona			
Management Information Systems

E-mail:
venkataraman@misvax.mis.ariona.edu       
Sprint:
(602)-621-2748
========================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: bi011@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Bill King)
Subject: Re: $5 min BJ in AC on Friday eve./Saturday ?
Reply-To: bi011@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Bill King)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 13:20:21 GMT


In a previous article, jxr@thumper.bellcore.com (Jonathan Rosenberg) says:

>Remesh Venkataraman writes:
>	Is it possible to find these tables anywhere in AC ? How about on
>	Saturday evening?

When I was down a month or so ago, Resorts had a few $5 tables as well.
Bill
-- 
You should, have made it a point, to get both of them Daddy! If Sting has
to carry me, on his back down that aisle, if he has to DRAG me in a wagon,
I'm breathing, ya understand? YOU SHOULD HAVE GOT IT DONE! It's violence for
the sake of violence.I will turn it around to MY violence! ==Dusty Rhodes
From: cantor@star.enet.dec.com (Dave Cantor)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: a few bj questions
Date: 8 Apr 92 15:21:02 GMT
Article-I.D.: engage.1992Apr8.153206.19973
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


In article <1992Apr7.224222.25111@pencom.com>, eric@pencom.com writes...
>[A good mathematical proof removed for brevity.  Dave C.]
>Therefore, it never pays to double less than the full amount.

You proved that it never pays to double less than the full amount when
you have the full amount available to double with.  (I suspected that
all along, and I'm pleased to see the proof.  Thank you very much.)
I alleged that it is advantageous to double for less when you don't
have the full amount to double with, rather than just hitting.  I don't
think your proof applies to the conditions I proposed.  Here they are
again:

     You have 5 units and bet 3 units.  You receive an 8,3 against
     the dealer's 5.  You do not have 3 units to double with; you have
     only 2.  I claim it is more advantageous to double for less with
     the 2 units then to hit without doubling.  

I suspect (but can't prove) that for every hand in which full doubling
is advantageous, there is some fraction x, 0 < x < 1, such that doubling
for less than x*the_flat_bet is disadvantageous compared to just hitting,
and doubing for less than the_flat_bet, but for more than x*the_flat_bet
is more advantageous than just hitting, but less so than full doubling.
--
 Dave C.                          cantor@star.enet.dec.com
  The views expressed herein are my own.  They are neither the opinion
  nor the responsibility of Digital Equipment Corporation, my employer.
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: elliott@aero.org (Kenneth B. Elliott III)
Subject: Re: Blackjack Computer!
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 17:11:43 GMT


>BLACKJACK COMPUTER
>The ultimate card counter.  Win consistently with the technology every
>casino fears the most!  Complete training and support provided.
>
>CALL (714) 865-1191
>
>[stuff deleted]
>
>it).  How about one of you locals calling the number and posting a
>note about what they are offering?
>

Just called the number and got an answering machine.  "Hi.  I'm  not-a in
right-a now. Leev-a you name-a and-a numbah and-a we'll get-a back to 
you." (or something like that :-) ).  Sounds like a high-tech
operation.

KBEIII

Of course I didn't leave my name and number...
--

Ken Elliott III                  The Aerospace Corp.
elliott@aero.org                 P.O. Box 92957
(310) 336-8166                   Los Angeles, CA 90009
From: mitch@lsil.com (Mitch Sako)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Solitaire?
Date: 14 Apr 92 17:23:36 GMT
Reply-To: mitch@lsil.com
Organization: LSI Logic Corporation

In article 16811@aio.jsc.nasa.gov, hack@arabia.uucp (Edmund Hack) writes:
>While playing Windows solitaire this weekend at home, a thought struck me:
>Most computer solitaire games allow a "Las Vegas" scoring system: Pay $52,
>get $5 per card built up on the ace stacks, limited # of deck run thrus.
>Is this game now offered in any casino, or offered in the past?  I can see
>where it would be difficult to offer with decks of cards, but might be easy
>to do with a video system.  Is this based in reality or some past fantasy
>of a game author?

There used to be variations of Canfield and Klondike that bars in the
Northwest (Washington, Montana, etc.) way back when (I am told by a 
friend of mine) who used to offer up these types of deals.  The # of
run-thrus was one and you paid your money before seeing the talon.

With this proposition you need 10.4 cards to break even, right?  I believe
it was more difficult than that back then.  I believe you had to lay 12.5
cards or something close to that.
---

Mitch Sako - LSI Logic Corp		Phone  408-433-4187
internet:    msako@lsil.com		FAX    408-433-8796
uucp:        lsil!msako
From: kolt@quads.uchicago.edu (Matt K/Gonzo)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Scissors, was Re: Blackjack strategy
Keywords: snip
Date: 17 Apr 92 19:14:44 GMT
Reply-To: kolt@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

Hey guys! Since this thread seems to be sort of pointless, like it seems to be
asking a bunch of BS players and counters what they would do if they weren't 
playing BS. This seems like a weird question and not one that can be answered
very well by us. I'm gonna pull out my thread-snipping scissors, Steve and
Jason, I've got the midwest covered, can y'all do the east and west for me?
We can snip this thread off and not worry any longer about responding to
each other about what we think this means. :-)

Have a good weekend, (read: win lots o' money)
Matt


-- 
Matt Koltnow   B0 t-- w- c+ g+ k s+ e r- p     "That's the way
Email: kolt@midway.uchicago.edu                 Lady Luck dances.
Ntalk: kolt@ellis.uchicago.edu  (or @quads)     Roll the Bones." --N. Peart
Boycott the Imperial Palace.           10x odds on 25c craps at Union Plaza.
From: markb@netlabs.com (Mark Bentkower)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: The Unofficial Guide to LV
Keywords: neat, book
Date: 9 Apr 92 18:22:08 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: NetLabs, Inc.

>This book came out recently. I think that it is well written. I took objection
to the guy's book on Walt Disney World. There were a lot of poorly done
>sections. And since I work for Disney in the summer and at Christmas, I _knew_
>that it was bad. Anyway, I bought this work and it is fascinating. It is more
>travel oriented then gambling oriented, but the travel info is valuable. I
>think that it is definitely FAQ material as a reference work.
>I'll post more, including a better book review later. Just wondering if anyone
>else has any opinions on it.
>
>Matt

I have not seen this book yet, but there is an excellent Las Vegas
guidebook by Deke Castleman which is available at Daltons and 
Waldenbooks. The title is something like "Las Vegas, the complete Guide"
or something like that. It has a salmon colored jacket with a picture
of the neon palm trees from the Oasis Casino on the front.

What I like particularly about this book is that it contains
lots of historical information about LV, from the indians who
first settled there, through the early years of "mob rule".
It also contains short bios on Benny Binion and Moe Dalitz, and
chronicles each casino's history (when it was built, who sold to
whom, etc.) This book also contains very complete lists of 
good resteraunts in the area, with addresses, phone numbers and 
average prices. It also contains lists of all hotels and
their phone numbers. I always bring this book along on my trips
just to have the hotel/resteraunt lists readily available.

If anyone would like to full name and publisher, etc,
e-mail me and I'll get it for you.

-- 
+-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
|Mark Bentkower			NetLabs, Inc.			              | 
|markb@netlabs.com		*The views and opinions expressed herein are  |
|"I'd rather be in Vegas"	mine and not my employers.*	              |
From: jacko@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Jacko)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Pai Gow Poker
Keywords: 2.5, not
Date: 16 Apr 92 21:12:08 GMT
Organization: AT&T

Matt,

You're crazy.:-)  The house edge on Pai Gow Poker is around 2% +/- 0.5%.
To be honest, I thought it was down around 1.5% because I never play and
I never heard about this "ties lose" business.  Other than that it is an
even game and the house gets its edge from the 5% commission on the winning
hands divided by all action (wins, pushes, losses).

When you get rated at Pai Gow, your average bet for rating purposes is only
1/3 of your true average bet on the game.  I.e.   a $30 player at Pai Gow
gets comped like a $10 BJ or craps player.  It is highly doubtful that Pai
Gow Poker has a greater edge than BJ or craps.  

By the way I like the idea of the crazy man act at PGP.

Jacko.
From: jacobs@cs.utah.edu (Steven R Jacobs)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Bay Area (California) cardroom experience
Date: 9 Apr 92 19:21:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: cells.JACOBS.92Apr9142123
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept
In-reply-to: jsp@uts.amdahl.com's message of 9 Apr 92 17:37:05 GMT

In article <f3NL02Fbc2vg00@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com> jsp@uts.amdahl.com (James Preston) writes:
>
> slandrum@ntg.com (Stephen H. Landrum) writes:
>
> }The time payment is not live, and at the 2-4 and 3-6 tables
> }the time payment is equal to the big blind.  At the no-limit tables,
> }time is collected on the half-hour (I am not sure of the rate), and the
> }button has the first blind and all of the blinds are live.
>
> I hate to ask dumb questions, but if one doesn't ask, one won't learn,
> right?  Could some kind soul explain this term "live" to me?  I've
> heard it used in reference to blinds, and now in reference to the time
> payment.  But somehow, I can't quite get down what it means.

A "live" blind means that you still have the right to raise the pot,
even if there are no other raisers.  I would assume that a "live"
time payment is a "bet" (that the house steals) which gives the player
the right to raise when no other players make a raise.
--
Steve Jacobs  ({bellcore,hplabs,uunet}!utah-cs!jacobs, jacobs@cs.utah.edu)
"Limit congressmen to two terms.  One in office.  One in jail."
From: mark.savey@cccbbs.UUCP (Mark Savey)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: RE: SPORTS BETTING
Date: 6 Apr 92 11:47:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: cccbbs.908.120.uupcb
Reply-To: mark.savey@cccbbs.UUCP (Mark Savey)
Organization: Cincinnati Computer Connection BBS - Cincinnati, OH - 513-752-8248

MW>From: wilding@cs.utexas.edu (Matthew Wilding)
MW>Newsgroups: rec.gambling
MW>Subject: Re: Sports betting
MW>Message-ID: <rnuqmINNd2g@cs.utexas.edu>
MW>Date: 5 Apr 92 22:26:30 GMT

MW>I think it would be a mistake for him to post his picks each week.
MW>First, there are many sports gamblers on the net, and soon all would
MW>be posting their picks each week.  Second, there's already a way of
MW>"registering" picks - through Ed's rec.gambling/rec.sport.football
MW>poll each week, which is posted each week during the season.

MW>Information about how to enter the poll will be posted as the season 
MW>approaches.
   Can you tell me more about "Ed's poll"?  Is this a yearly event?
   
Thanks,

Mark E. Savey
GAMBLER'S MATE software - "Only systems that win!!"                    .
Endorsed by Mike Caro, the "Mad Genius" of Gambling!                   .
Winning for THIRD straight year!                                       .
@ INTERNET: cccbbs!mark.savey@uceng.uc.edu or 74716.1720@CompuServe.com
                             ^-------|------------------^              .
                                   should be the "at" sign (shift-2)   .
---
 . DeLuxe. 1.21 #8865 . WPGS-619 246-5166, join GAMBLER'S MATE cnf (# 48)
From: jschwarz@lonestar.utsa.edu (Jan A. Schwarz)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Thanks
Date: 15 Apr 92 18:05:45 GMT
Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio


  I posted an article yesterday but never saw it.  So I'll post it again.
  We are on our way to LV Saturday (for better or worse).  I looked over
  the FAQ and just wanted to say "thanks" to all of you that compiled
  this list!  All of you are really to be commended.

  I'm ready to play Blackjack (for the first time out there).  Hope I don't
  lose everything!  (Any last minute suggestions from anyone?)

  Anyway, thanks again to all of you, I've really enjoyed reading all
  of your thoughts.

  Jan

--