HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch)
Subject: Re: FBI Security Investigations
Organization: Advanced Decision Systems; a div of Booz, Allen & Hamilton
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 17:48:19 GMT

anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) wrote: 
->I suspect that as often as not (and maybe more often than
->that) some form of discrimination operates in case of
->applicants who are LGB.  But we know some LGB people are
->granted high security clearances, and indeed people some of
->us here know have successfully challenged the government.
->But you're probably right that most of the time, it's
->decided on the say-so of one person.

not really.  for DoD, all the information is gathered, percolated,
analyzed, selected, detected, ... and passed on to a group of Very
Important People ... this group makes decisions, sends back
investigations for more information (boy, could i talk about this
one), ... as far as i can tell, one irrational person in the process
should only be able to make a little noise.  now, if you get *several*
irrational people in the process ... ???

--
# henry mensch / booz, allen & hamilton, inc.  / <henry@ads.com>
# "fight the real enemy."  -- sinead o'connor, and many others.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: ah505@yfn.ysu.edu (Brian Quinby)
Subject: Re: Pedophilia as sexual orientation
Organization: Youngstown State/Youngstown Free-Net
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 06:37:33 GMT


TMCCART3@ua1vm.ua.edu (Tracey McCartney) writes"

needs to
be a *legal* *definition* of sexual orientation, probably involving some
element of consent between adults."

(sorry, I don't know how to make all of those funny little marks)

There is a little problem here when the word "consent" is used in
the same sentance as adults espicaly when the former modifies
the latter.

Each state has it's own "age of consent which ranges from 12 (in, I 
beleive New Mexico and Hawaii - but only under certain circumstances \
and, I am not a lawyer so do not take this as the gospel truth if
you live in either of these places and are about to do something) to
18 in others. So, shall we have a "national" age of consent. I 
beleive the Dtch do,I think that it is 14.

	Brian
From: ailsa@wonky.UUCP (Ailsa N.T. Murphy)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: MOTSS-Oriented Music, Part II
Date: 26 Jan 93 00:41:41 GMT

In article <1993Jan25.060407.10785@fuug.fi>, an6245@anon.penet.fi (Nobody in particular...) writes:
>
> Specifically, what I'm looking for are songs which contain lyrics that are
> obviously MOTSS-oriented.  Songs by artists who are rumored to be gay,
> especially if that rumor is only in the "homosexual community" (I use
> that phrase because I don't know of any other), are not really what
> I'm looking for.
>
you just hit on what i find frustrating about some wimmin's music.  you
KNOW the women are dykes, they SAY they're dykes, EVERYONE says they're
dykes, but the love songs are all genderless!  aigh!

but of the ones i listed, holly near, ferron, phranc, and i think
theresa trull are quite obviously singing too/about women.  oops!  so is
alix dobkin - she used to bar heterosexuals from her concerts too, i
hear...  and the refrain from that indigo girls song i mentioned in my
last post on this topic starts:

juliet, when we made love you used to cry...

sounds dykey to ME!  *grin*  and they have a song about virginia woolf
too...
                                                -ailsa

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
                           ailsa@wonky.uucp
 LIfe moves so mysterious with its cute little spins        ________
 And it's everyone's koan and door to get in        Silence \      / Action
 It's old human nature, it's cold or it's hot          =     \    /    =
 I think of you often, I like you a lot              Death    \  /    Life
 But if it's snowin' in Brooklyn                               \/
 I'd say snow is what we got.           -Ferron
From: bearcub@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Bob Koenig)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: MOTSS-Oriented Music, Part II
Date: 27 Jan 1993 13:51:58 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Reply-To: bearcub@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4
Originator: bearcub@csd4.csd.uwm.edu

From article <65-JNEWS-2.1@wonky.UUCP>, by ailsa@wonky.UUCP (Ailsa N.T. Murphy):
> In article <1993Jan25.060407.10785@fuug.fi>, an6245@anon.penet.fi (Nobody in particular...) writes:
>>
>> Specifically, what I'm looking for are songs which contain lyrics that are
>> obviously MOTSS-oriented.  Songs by artists who are rumored to be gay,
>> especially if that rumor is only in the "homosexual community" (I use
>> that phrase because I don't know of any other), are not really what
>> I'm looking for.

OOOPS! Nevermind out there...I caught myself.

*duh* >BONK< *ouch!*

Bearcub>>
-- 
========================bearcub@csd4.csd.uwm.edu==========================
<  B1/B2 c+(+!) g f k(+)? w s-   <---Newly revised bear codes of me      >
<          Freddie Mercury and Big Bossman's Love Child                  > 
==========================================================================
From: BURGER@QUCDN.QueensU.CA (bob burge)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Clue phone for William J. Clinton
Date: 27 Jan 93 05:28:43 GMT
 <mattm-260193094220@mcmelmon.apple.com>
Organization: Queen's University at Kingston

In article <mattm-260193094220@mcmelmon.apple.com>, mattm@apple.com (Matthew
Melmon) says:
>
>In article <C1Gxw0.8Ct@acsu.buffalo.edu>, viejones@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu
>(Michael A. Jones) wrote:
>
>>       Do you have lines for all 535 members of Congress too?  Give Bill
>> a break and call your Congresspeople!
>
>This is excellent advice.  Clinton is not the problem. .......
                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Clinton is part of the solution!

>So the Political Queens should quit bitching at the President
>(gasp - defending a Democrat...  ohh, ick, yuck, pitoie) - and
>turn instead towards that bloated, corrupt, incompetent body
>that, God save us, actually *creates* the Law.
                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Who?  The Supreme Court? ;-)
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 10:39:29 EST
From: The Dreamer <ASG102@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Hair Stylists
 <thaaang.727273723@cwis> <1993Jan17.164515.3214@peanut>
 <thaaang.727320292@cwis> <1993Jan20.192848.3257@peanut>

>And I was wondering; what is the most effective, yet appropriate was to
>flirt with your hair stylist?

     Well, it depends if you are out to him (assuming that your stylist is
a he).  With mine, I started by wearing my freedom rings in plain view.  Then
when he was massaging my scalp, I told him that he had great hands...I'm
sure that you could take it from there.  Usually it's enough of a signal
to tell him that you are interested.

     Love and Peace and Flirting,
            -The Dreamer-
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: GLAAD: Sowell Off Target
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 93 20:07:20 GMT

In article <C1A65r.71J@panix.com> mls@panix.com (Michael
Siemon) writes:

>In article <mattm-210193170137@mcmelmon.apple.com>
>mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon) writes:

>>All that notwithstanding, Hoover Tower would make for a great
>>place to boink.

>Prone to visual stimulation, are we? :-)

Prone to being prone, more like.

-- 
[Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin]
[Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson]
[Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888]
[---------> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <---------]
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: wood@siemens.com (Jim Wood)
Subject: Thurgood Marshall, an American patriot
Organization: Siemens Corporate Research, Princeton (Plainsboro), NJ
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 15:16:42 GMT

Thurgood Marshall died yesterday at the age of 84.  His death is
a strong reminder that he left the world in 1993 a far better place
than when he was born in 1908, and that he is a chief reason for
the improvement.

Does anyone have stories reflecting on Justice Marshall's legal
writings concerning the rights of homosexuals?  All I know is that
he voted to overturn the Georgia sodomy laws in Hardwick v. Bowers
(1986).

Jim Wood
From: rrizzo@star-trek.bbn.com (Ron Rizzo)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Into the streets!
Date: 22 Jan 1993 21:34:01 GMT
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: archive.bbn.com
Keywords: Clinton, advisers, resistance to change, controversy


           		   PUSHES AND SHOVES


A few days ago on NPR, someone named Wilkins who was assistant attorney
general for JFK pointed out that the incoming Kennedy administration
separated itself from the civil rights movement, and told its organizers
that its narrow victory in the election meant it didn't have the political
capital to make the civil rights agenda its own.  Both Robert and John
Kennedy kept their distance for a couple of years and were even unwilling
to act at times when civil rights workers were threatened by mass physical
violence.

The new administration also exiled liberals: Adlai Stevenosn to the UN, then
considered a political backwater, Chester Bowles to the ambassadorship of
India, etc.  Despite political rhetoric about the Kennedys and how they
appear now to us, they were not liberals, at least not at first.

What happened next was that civil rights organizations and leaders forced the
issue by pouring into the streets and onto TV screens, repeatedly, in large
public protests, marches, sit-ins and projects like voter registration.

They finally forced the White House to come around and support civil rights.

Given statements by Clinton and his staff during the last 2 weeks, I think
we're in a similar situation, on both some social issues (like sexual orien-
tation, gender, race, AIDS) and maybe many economic ones.  

WE MUST AGITATE, beginning now and for months, maybe years, to come.  We must
take to the streets and the airwaves, to local and national governments, and
continually pressure the Clinton administration not only to not renege on or
fatally compromise campaign promises but to act soon and effectively.

For example, I don't think lifting the gay&lesbian ban in the military is a
sure thing at all.  If there isn't a lot of continuing pressure on Clinton
himself as well as his advisers, he may try to quietly abandon any change in
the status quo.  I can even imagine a Shalala in the cabinet fudging on all
the really controversial issues, giddy with the status and power of her new
position.  Zoe Baird is a millionaire corporate lawyer; despite her gender
and feminism, how much in common do such people have with most of us?  I don't
think we can take *any* of them, meaning Clinton's cabinet and staff, and 
probably many of his future appointees, for granted.

Let's face it: their positions on most issues aren't really good enough for
the challenges this country faces.  For example, Clinton's appointments to
economic posts are rather tepid and cautious.  They've all got to pushed by
us, and maybe pushed a lot.  The more sympathetic appointees may be counting
on the public to push Clinton.

So, agitate for change!
Ron
From: kenr@cabezon.uucp (Ken Richards)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Homoeroticism on Northern Exposure
Date: 27 Jan 93 23:20:53 GMT
Article-I.D.: cabezon.1993Jan27.232053.25627
Organization: Logic Modeling Corporation of Beaverton Oregon

lazarus@wixer.cactus.org (Michael Lax) writes:

>Last night on Northern Exposure (a repeat) Maurice got an antique
>clock - which came with a _beautiful_ technician to install it.  While
>this technician (who's charachter name I forget) was eating at the Brick,
>he saw Ed and started talking to him.  Ed took him home, showing him
>his video collection - and, when asked, showed him his broken movie
>camera.  Well our friendly German fixed it.  They then started going around
>town filming this and that, and Ed took some shots of his new friend.
>At the end of the show, after his new friend had left, Ed was watching
>the film, and smiling at his new friend.  Yes, this could just be a
>perfectly unsexual friendship, but.....

Yeah! The image of 'Rolf' on my screen stopped my remote in mid channel
zap and my TV stayed tuned to CBS for the rest of the hour. How ever
did he pour himself into those black Levis? 

What caught my attention was when Rolf and Ed were talking about movies and
Rolf revealed that he liked a particular actress because she was so "manly".

Ken

-- 
___________________________________________________________________________
   Ken Richards        |                | It's tragic that families can be 
 Logic Modeling Corp   |  kenr@lmc.com  | torn apart by something as simple
                       |                | as wild dogs.
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Audrey
Date: 23 Jan 1993 01:53:30 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <74199@cup.portal.com> 
Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison) writes:
> Arne writes:
> >Melmoron burbles:
> >> There are very few "great" actresses, and the name was already
> >> taken by one.
> >
> >It must be because I've been hideously sick with the flu
> >for the past few days, but I don't get the allusion.
>
> *Katherine* Hepburn.

(She spells it Katharine.)

Oh.  I just never think "great actress" and "Katharine Hepburn"
at the same time.  "Great movie star", yes, but not "great
actress".

Ar-achoo-ne




Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: what i did over xmas vacation, etc.\
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 21:06:14 GMT

In article <727598308snx@drummond.demon.co.uk>
john@drummond.demon.co.uk writes:

>In article <1993Jan19.195708.2420@midway.uchicago.edu>
>milr@midway.uchicago.edu writes:

>> Me, I just think women are yucky. :)
>> [...]

>Sometimes I just marvel at the forbearance of the
>women here.  Sometimes I'm just astonished that
>there are *any* who bother to read, let alone post.

I obviously missed this enlightened creature's original
offering (probably just as well for my blood pressure), so
all I can do now is echo John's sentiment.

>And sometimes I just marvel at people who think
>that a couple of smileys can make a paragraph of
>garbage like this acceptable.

I suppose they think of it as "cute." I think there should
be an existing sub-Cabal of the Cabal That Doesn't Exist,
self-nominated to jump out from behind a bush and issue a
deafening chorus of "PIG!" into the ear of nitwits who post
such piggish trash.

>> (I know you're listening ladies.  :>)

How does someone who's so clueless as to say "ladies" gain
entrance to an elite school like Chicago, anyway?  Can we
put Ellen on the admission committee down there, or
something?

>Yes, they are.  Just think about that.

Don't hold your breath, my dear John.

-- 
[Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin]
[Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson]
[Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888]
[---------> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <---------]
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rodney@cub.math.oxy.edu. (Rodney Hoffman)
Subject: Greeting the President (was: Clinton Gets Earful at Open House)
Organization: Occidental College, Los Angeles, CA.  USA
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 21:09:33 GMT


Even before I read Rod Williams post on the NYT story, I wanted to report 
on what I saw:

In even a very limited sampling, I can say that we seemed to be quite
well-represented in the crowds lined up to greet the Clintons and Gores
at Thursday's White House Open House.

As I was getting dressed Thursday, C-SPAN was showing the receiving line, 
and seemed to have President Clinton miked.  Mostly, it was endless 
repetition of "Glad to see you... Thank you... Where are you from?...", etc.
Occasionally, the people in line would say more than a perfunctory "Good
luck, I'm glad you're here."  

In the short time I was listening, I heard three lesbians greet Clinton.  The  
first told him,  "When I got the notice  [that I had been selected by lottery  
to greet you], I was so excited!  I  wanted to call and tell my mother, but I  
couldn't because she hasn't spoken  to me in (xx) years because I'm a lesbian."   
She closed with something like,  "I hope you can help change those kinds of  
attitudes."  The next woman in  line appeared to be her lover, and also said  
something gay-positive.  A short  time later, there was this exchange with  
another woman in line:

   Woman:    "Don't forget the gays!"
   Clinton:  "I won't!"
   Woman:    "Thank you!"

It was great hearing all this!

  -- Rodney Hoffman
     rodney@oxy.edu



Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: hughes@dogwood.botany.uga.edu (Wayne Hughes)
Subject: Re: Clinton Gets Earful at Open House
Organization: Botany Department - U of Georgia, Athens
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 22:48:03 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.214314.8181@PacBell.COM> rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams) writes:
>
>My, aren't we a teensy bit literal-minded?  Other readers,
>I imagine, were easily able to fill in the blank, as in "I
>hope your Administration will [foster a climate of tolerance,
>respect, inclusion, understanding, healing and celebration of
>our glorious diversity in America so that one day we can]
>change that."
>
  Indeed.  But it was instructive to see just who was
  "unable" to fill in those blanks.

  Wayne

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: lazarus@wixer.cactus.org (Michael Lax)
Subject: Re: Injunction GRANTED Against Amendment 2 !!YAY!!
Organization: Real/Time Communications
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 12:19:58 GMT

The deputy legal director for the People for the American Way was in Austin
last night doing a forum on the religious right's effect on American
culture.  She mentioned CO2 - apparently the interpration of "strict
scrutiny" will work until it hits the US Supreme Court, where most of
her legal contacts in CO think they will dismiss the call for strict
scruity and consequently uphold the amendment.  Maybe - and this might
take years, by which time the Supreme Court may be more interested in law
than in politics.

In the meantime, does anyone know what effect this has on anti-discrimin-
ation laws already in place and does this effect communities wanting to
implement new ones?
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Congressional Contacts on Military Unban?
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 10:24:35 GMT


I was thoroughly pissed yesterday that Sam Nunn got on TV
and said no more than 30 Senators would support changes in
the law to support unbanning us in the military.

I looked on the QRD without finding (could have missed it)
for a list of the names and addresses of all 100 US Senators
and all 435 (or is it 535) members of the House for the new
Congress.  In addition, I want to know who's on the Armed
Services Committee.  I want to know who all the just-elected
people are.

*Massive* but not hysterical response is needed
*immediately* to serve notice that we are here and we are
watching and we expect some real leadership on the issue in
the elected bodies.

We should all start watching for biased reporting, too.

Pointers to all this are welcome.

-- 
[Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin]
[Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson]
[Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888]
[---------> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <---------]
From: mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Are Gay Men Richer, Really?
Date: 25 Jan 93 17:31:09 GMT
Followup-To: soc.motss
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.

In article <C1A4Az.5EC@panix.com>, mls@panix.com (Michael Siemon) wrote:

> BTW: Matthew, with this post, has disabused me of the longstanding
> notion that I should create a killfile, just for him.

Oh, *X* is really a warm, fuzzy, sweatie-pie - right Squirrel?  Right?
Hey!  Rodent!  I'm a TALKIN' to YOU!  Get your tail over here and
tell the gentleman how warm and pleasant I am.  I'm WAITING...

*X*
(damn nut-cracking vermin, can't live with 'em, can't live without
'em).
From: rhayden@oracle.com (Ronald Hayden)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Challenge: Documentation of Nonpromiscuity
Date: 25 Jan 93 08:38:23 GMT
Organization: Oracle Corporation, Belmont, Ca.
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <73520@cup.portal.com> Arthur_T_Hu@cup.portal.com writes:

   Mr. Michael Adams Starcad@uiuc.edu says there's no evidence thatgays
   are any more promiscuous than heterosexuals. I'd like to see some
   documentation, because I've seen dozens of figures that show that
   anybody who doesn't believe gays as a groups are more promiscuous (
   meaning number of sexual partners) is just plain ignorant.

[usual rantings deleted]

   Just how many soc.motss folks have had 3 partners or less? How many
   hetero-folk? Why doesn't somebody just do a survey?

I'm 24.  I have had one partner in my adult life, and we've been in a
monogamous relationship for seven years.
--

  - Ronald Hayden

    ----------------------------------------------------------------
   | Documentation Manager, Oracle Toolkit Group                    |
   | Co-chair of Oracle Lambda, Oracle's Gay/Lesbian/Bisexual group |
   | Writer, magician, and various other things                     |
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
From: Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: MOTSS-oriented music?
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 93 11:18:07 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

anon asks:
>I've seen posted on here lists of both MOTSS-oriented movies and gay
>TV characters.  I haven't seen anything yet related to MOTSS-oriented
>music.
>
>The only two songs I know about are "Hideaway" and "Gimme, Gimme, Gimme"
>both by Erasure.

There's lots more than that, believe me!

>If anyone who knows of other MOTSS-oriented songs and could e-mail me,
>I'd like to start compiling a list.  I can post the list here later, if
>anyone is interested...

Well, here's one off the top of my head: "Valerie," by
Quarterflash.  Imagine my surprise to find a song about a woman's
reaction to having another woman make a pass at her on what was
"supposed" to be a very mainstream pop/rock album!

 
() You never know till you take a chance,
() If you're out on that wire, you might as well dance!
()      -- _Make It Shine_, by Quarterflash
-----
[> George D. Madison | NBCS: B8f+t+w-e+s+k+a!cv | Just say NO to razors! <]
[> It's a BEAR thing -- you wouldn't understand. <|> furr@cup.portal.com <]
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rjwill6@pbhyd.PacBell.COM (Rod Williams)
Subject: Re: Audrey
Reply-To: rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams)
Organization: Pacific Bell, San Francisco CA
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 16:06:59 GMT

> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>> rogerk@queernet.org (Roger B.A.  Klorese) writes:
>>> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:

>>>Oh.  I just never think "great actress" and "Katharine Hepburn"
>>>at the same time.  "Great movie star", yes, but not "great
>>>actress".
>
>>"Runs the gamut from 'a' to 'b'," eh?
>
>Ah, but said that?  Was it not Brooks Atkinson?

Bartlett's says it's "attributed" to Miss Parker.
-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------
rod williams/pacific * bell/san ramon, california/rjwill6@pacbell.com
=====================================================================