From: f33012l@puukko.hut.fi (Janne Kivel{)
Subject: Re: Ancient prejudices
Reply-To: f33012l@puukko.hut.fi (Janne Kivel{)
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 09:26:42 GMT

junikka@schaefer.math.wisc.edu (Jari Junikka) writes:

>>Just like the Swedish newspapers used to have these headlines, when Swedes
>>had been beaten in Finnkampen: "Day of the Mongols at the Stadium"
>>(This might be an urban legend though, allegedly happened sometimes in 
>>the 60's)
>
>I think the above is typical of this and the other recent threads about 
>the discrimination of Finns in Sweden, the rights of Finns in Sweden vs.
>the  rights of the Swedish speaking minority in Finland:  
>few Finns shouting discrimination based on anecdotes they themselves admit 
>of being dubious at best. I wish you'd read your posting a couple of times 
>before you
>post and consider whether you posting actually has any factual content
>or something new to contribute instead of another "I heard that they did
>this to Finns in 19nn in the city X in Sweden, but it might not be true".

Well, I admit it was not the best possible contribution to the thread, but
it should, at least, prove the true shallowness of the prejudices. Most of
the prejudices are based on urban legends like that. Fortunately, few in
Nordic countries take those prejudices too seriously. I think you shouldn't
either.

>As a Finn, I'd be ashamed to criticize the refugee policies of the other 
>Nordic countries as long as majority of the Finns is behind the governments
>dubious arguments like "those poor souls couldn't last the hard winter in
>Finland anyway, we'll help them by giving money to the UN etc". If I remember
>correctly the largest groups of foreigners living in Finland
>are (not in any particular order) the Swedes, Americans, Germans, and 
>Brittish.

You forgot the Russians the number of whom is increasing. 

IMHO, it's true that the vast majority of Finnish people are against 
letting in more refugees. And the authorities are doing the best they
can to balance between the international pressure of accepting more
refugees and the public opinion. 

>Finland might be treating better its Lappish minority than other Nordic 
>countries,
>but what about the gypsies? What type of prejudice do they face in Finland?
>Or the small number of refugees, we have taken over the years?

It depends. I believe the Vietnamese boat people who came here have 
conformed to the society fairly well. On the other hand, I don't expect
the Somalis, who are one of the most recent refugee groups, do very well.

< Several examples documenting the stupidity of Finnish authorities deleted >

Most of the cases you mentioned have been covered in the Finnish media
as well. I believe it's generally known that if your skin is blacker
than the Nordic pale white, the probability of you being inspected by
the customs officials at the border is very high. It's difficult to 
distinguish, however, which of the incidents are due to bureaucratic 
incompetence and which are due to prejudices.

>[By the way, what came of that restructuring? Did it take place?]
>Ulkomaalaistoimisto used to routinely misinform or fail to inform foreigners 
>about their rights in Finland and access to legal help.

This kind of horror stories you mention used to be routinely covered
in the media, who really made a big fuss showing how racist we Finns are,
and especially the authorities. The feeling of guilt was also fed
by reports showing how many refugees other Nordic countries are accepting.

The problem today is that it takes so long for the authorities to properly
handle the applications for asylum. The treatment of so called 'spontaneous
refugees' has got better and their applications are dealt with in proper
bureaucratic fashion.

Janne Kivela"

      "N{m{kin pusakat vain viisysiysi. Ja kaikista valtakunnan..."
                     ----- Simo vaatehuoneelta
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