HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jacobs@cs.utah.edu (Steven R Jacobs)
Subject: Re: Want facts?  "WHO RUNS THE MEDIA?  The Alarming Facts"
In-reply-to: ralphw@b-cpu.UUCP's message of 6 Apr 92 01:31:42 GMT
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept
Date: 6 Apr 92 09:12:44

In article <gate.JF5RiB1w164w@b-cpu.UUCP> ralphw@b-cpu.UUCP (Ralph Winston) writes:

> [The following was written approx. 1985.  While reading it, please keep
> in mind that minority racism and majority racism are equally wrong.]
>
>				^^^^^^^^^^
>	   Pay attention to that this time, Mr. Shein and company!

Come now, "Ralph".  The fact that you _claim_ you are not a racist does
not imply that you are not one.  The fact that you _claim_ you are not
a liar does not imply that you tell the truth.  The fact that you _claim_
to not hate anyone is unbelievable in the face of your actions, which
are designed to stir up hatred in others.  It is by your actions that
others know what kind of a person you are.  Your actions speak much
more than your words.
--
Steve Jacobs  ({bellcore,hplabs,uunet}!utah-cs!jacobs, jacobs@cs.utah.edu)
"Limit congressmen to two terms.  One in office.  One in jail."
Xref: sparky misc.headlines:3245 talk.abortion:14298 dc.general:697
From: packer@amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov (Charles Packer)
Newsgroups: misc.headlines,talk.abortion,dc.general
Subject: Re: Crowd size at abortion rights march
Date: 9 Apr 92 11:37:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: amarna.9APR199207374575
Organization: Dept. of Independence
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1

In article <ian.702785731@asi1>, ian@Agranat.COM (Ian Douglas Agranat) writes...
>At 4:00PM, Patricia Ireland (National NOW president) announced that 750,000 
>signatures had been collected and counted thus far.  She emphasized that this 


That's odd; I walked through and around crowds there for almost
two hours and I didn't see any evidence whatsoever that signatures
were being collected. If someone would put me in touch with NOW
officials in Washington, I'd be glad to go into their offices and
examine these alleged signatures.
Xref: sparky misc.headlines:3318 talk.politics.misc:17838 talk.politics.mideast:10624 soc.misc:468
From: mfm0@ellis.uchicago.edu (martin frederic melhus)
Newsgroups: misc.headlines,talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.mideast,soc.misc,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: (Control of the News Media)
Summary: Recruiting
Keywords: anti-semitism, recruitment
Date: 11 Apr 92 07:38:10 GMT
Reply-To: mfm0@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

Yes, Virginia, the B-CPU boys are recruiting.  Please allow me to
elucidate...

In article <1992Apr10.033648.10667@augean.eleceng.adelaide.edu.AU> ghassoun@augean.eleceng.adelaide.edu.AU (George Hassoun) writes:
>
>Hello Ralph,
>I tried to contact you through private e_mail, my letter bounced
>back.
>Could you please post me (by e_mail) a copy of your recent article about
>the control of the media in the States?
>
>Regards (and sorry if i annoyed other netters)
>-- 
>George Hassoun
>University of Adelaide, EEE Dpt.
>Adelaide, South Australia
>email: ghassoun@eleceng.adelaide.edu.au      Phone:(08) 228 5468

I have guessed from the beginning that this was their goal.  Cast out
their propaganda, and wait for sympathic responses.  So what if 100 or
1,000 people post reams of hard evidence that disproves their central
hypotheses.  If one or two are interested, the B-CPU boys can contact
them privately, and move in, spreading hatred.  This is the great
sickness that is B-CPU, and I am saddened by it.  These are the seeds
of the same stuff that caused the death of 12,000,000 PEOPLE of all
races and creeds during the holocaust, not to mention the 23,000,000
other people, including Germans, that died in WWII.  What does the
world stand to gain from this hatred?

As an aside, it is my guess (for the casual readers: guess means
speculation; I have no concrete proof,) that the article that
Mr. Hassoun has requested copies of was written by David Duke himself.
After all, DD has appeared on the Tom Snyder show.  I would be
amused to see Mr. Hassoun's reaction if he were to discover DD's
ideas about how to treat foreigners and minorities, including arabs
(who DD, and not I, lump into a group.)  I'm sure he'd feel better
knowing that DD would like for arabs to have their own enclave in the
US.  One might read this as "homeland", or "ghetto".  But it's for their
own protection; when members of different races get together, there is
naturally conflict.  Let's keep the minorities in their own areas,
and leave America as the land of the white man.  (For more examples
of this, contact the NAAWP.  I won't give out their address.)

-- 
                          | You have all the time from when you remove the |
     Martin F. Melhus     | card(s) from your hand until you put it (them) |
 mfm0@midway.uchicago.edu | on the pile to say "Last Card".  If you don't, |
                          | take your two. - Hidden texts, Book of MauMau. |
Xref: sparky misc.headlines:3379 soc.misc:522 talk.politics.mideast:10753 talk.politics.misc:18154
From: gmeltzne@jarthur.claremont.edu (manu)
Subject: Re: Want facts?  "WHO RUNS THE MEDIA?  The Alarming Facts"
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 19:28:35 GMT

In article <JIME.92Apr14121818@bullwinkle.atc.ll.mit.edu> jime@bullwinkle.atc.ll.mit.edu (Jim Eggert x6127 g41) writes:

>Because there is a real and present injustice in the Israeli
>occupation of the West Bank, Gaza Strip, and Golan Heights.  A
>possible future war must be guarded against, but it does not justify
>the present injustice of the occupation.


	Do you mean injustice because Israel controls those areas, or do you
mean injustice becasue what is going on in those areas.  Or both?




>>	   The policy of using rock throwers does not either.  At any rate,
>>   there is no realistic model without divine intervention.
>
>So until God Almight strikes them down, the Israelis will continue to
>shoot the rock throwers?

	I've been reading this thread for awhile, and from what I gather, Jim,
you don't feel that the security forces should shoot at rock thowers, even
when in self-defence.  Other than leaving immediately, which is impracticle
right now, what do you think the security forces should do?  (personally
I think paint balls would be effective...)

							-Manu

>--
>=Jim  jime%atc.ll.mit.edu (Jim Eggert)


-- 
Email: gmeltzne@jarthur.claremont.edu            
Do unto others before they do unto you.
"The future of the Arabs of Palestine was sacrificed to Egyptian politics"
						-Sir John Bagot Glubb
Newsgroups: misc.headlines
Subject: Carbon dioxyde : Is USA a democracy ?
From: borbor@divsun.unige.ch (BORIS Borcic)
Date: 7 Apr 92 14:27:24 +0200
Distribution: world
Organization: University of Geneva, Switzerland
Keywords: Which are the hypocrites ?

It is in the news that no agreement could be reached
about CO2 emissions at the Rio summit preparation meeting
in NY, because the representatives of the atmosphere's
first polluter, namely the USA, refuse to acknowledge
the menace of global warming.

Last year already, during the summit for the climate,
the US delegation refused even the minimal agreement
to keep CO2 emissions to their 1990 level.

Now I had the impression that US citizens were among 
the most vigorous militants under the "save the earth"
banner. Is this impression mistaken ? Would it be
legitimate for me to view "the Americans" as the 
enemies of Earth's future, on average ?

Or is it the case that the US governement representatives
do not represent the US people on the capital matter
of "our common future" ? Would it be legitimate for me
to view "the Americans" as a people with no control on
their governement, and consequently to view the US
territory as one that is not under democratic control ?

In this case, how can we help the revolutionaries ?

Anybody there ???


Boris Borcic - borbor@divsun.unige.ch


PS -

As a bit of background: it is relatively well known that USA
is adverse to smokers. And this is probably an euphemism.

Nevertheless, the streets in my city are polluted with
giant posters with slogans such as "Welcome to Marlboro
Country" or "Lucky Strike - meet an American Original"

Again, will you "Americans" over there overtake responsibility
for this representation ? Do you expect people all over the
world to sort through all the images that "your" industries
 propagate and discover the ones that represent you as you
"truly" are ? Or do you at least grant them the obvious
conclusion : "America" doesn't exist - it is no more than a
(damn intrusive) image. 
Xref: sparky misc.headlines:3381 soc.misc:524 talk.politics.mideast:10759 talk.politics.misc:18162
From: packer@amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov (Charles Packer)
Newsgroups: misc.headlines,soc.misc,talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.misc,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: WHO RUNS THE MEDIA?  WHAT A STUPID QUESTION.
Date: 14 Apr 92 11:19:00 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Independence
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1

In article <1992Apr14.025236.1015315@locus.com>, jle@locus.com (John Elghani/10000000) writes...
>EARTH ACTUALLY CONTAINS SOMEOME THAT STUPID TO ASK SUCH A QUESTION?


This is not at all a stupid question. And none of the answers often
given are really stupid, though many are off-the-wall.
Newsgroups: misc.headlines,soc.misc,talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.misc,alt.revisionism
From: ejh@khonshu.colorado.edu (Edward J. Hartnett)
Subject: Re: Want facts? "WHO RUNS THE MEDIA? The Alarming Facts"
Organization: Cooperative Institute for Research in the Environmental Sciences
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 17:13:58 GMT

In article <1992Apr10.214732.9204@techbook.com> gummitch@techbook.com (Jeff Frane) writes:
>jime@bullwinkle.atc.ll.mit.edu (Jim Eggert x6127 g41) writes:
>
>>In article <1992Apr10.082142.7808@muddcs.claremont.edu> gmeltzne@jarthur.claremont.edu (manu) writes:
>>>   ...
>>>   Don't go blaming the Jews for American ignorance.
>
>>Absolutely.  We have only ourselves to blame.  If we wanted better
>>newspapers, we would get them.  Even a Jewish-dominated newspaper (if
>>subject, though.)
>

On this topic, let me say that Americans are often run down for ignorance of
world news, but I don't believe it's true at all. Mostly this claim is made by
Europeans, who point out that their papers have much more international news
then American papers. Well, firstly, European countries (and most others, 
for that matter) are a lot smaller. If a French paper covers the German elections,
that's international news, but if the NY Times covers the California elections, 
that's domestic. In many respects Europe is like one big counrty. If you count
their European news stories as domestic, then they don't have much international
coverage at all, except they have lots of stories about American news.

A great deal of the world's news comes out of America. That may sound
like bragging, but it's true. Where is the world's entertainment capital? 
Hollywood. Where does the UN meet? New York. Where are the world's most important
military decisions made? Washington. The fact of the matter is, many of the things
that happen in the U.S. have a huge effect on the rest of the world, but the 
reverse is not true. I'm not running down the importance of the rest of the world,
but look at a European newspaper and you'll find a lot of stories that are about
America. Do you see many stories about Panama? No. Not much happens in Panama that
affects anybody outside of Panama. (I didn't say nothing - I said not much). Likewise,
not much happens in Europe that affects Americans. 

Finally, newspapers are no longer the primary news media they used to be, and America
is leading this trend. CNN has great internation coverage, and that's where most
Americans get their news.
			Ed Hartnett


From: hypes@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com (Gary Hypes)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 18:47:51 GMT
Subject: Re: Carbon dioxyde : Is USA a democracy ?
Organization: Hewlett Packard - Boise, ID
From: bpharmon@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu
Newsgroups: misc.headlines
Subject: Re: Want facts? "WHO RUNS THE MEDIA?" etc.
Date: 16 Apr 92 15:13:52 GMT
Organization: Miami University Academic Computer Service"

>>	   Do you mean injustice because Israel controls those areas, or do you
>>   mean injustice becasue what is going on in those areas.  Or both?
>
>Both, actually.  The mere occupation goes against UN resolutions.  And
>there are considerable injustices going on as a result of the occupation.


/	I don't care what the UN says but I don't see any injustice in
/controlling the Golan.  Syria attacked, Syria lost it.  Syria attacked, Syria
/still lost it.  Too bad for her.

	ahh.  However, the injustice is not carried out against the Syrian
state per se, but the people who are living (lived) there.  People
dislocated/affected by an occupation suffer more that the "state".  Also,
establishing responsibility of any number of citizens for the actions of the
state becomes dubious the more totalitarian the state becomes.  Therefore,
to claim that Gov't of Syria is one big "thing" that adequately represents the
people, and that actions against them are justified because of the actions of 
the state is not necessarily correct.  So to say "too bad for Syria" ignores
the human dynamics of the situation.  
	
	--thinking of nations as "them" groups rather than as human beings is
the same type of problem.....


	Btw, what about the Jews in Syria?


/	Water cannons probably wouldn't be a good idea due to the small water
/supply.  Tear gas has been used, and Israel was still criticized.  Shields
/might be a good idea.

							-Manu

	Doesn't the Israeli Riot police (soldiers?) already use shields?


>=Jim  jime%atc.ll.mit.edu (Jim Eggert)

Email: gmeltzne@jarthur.claremont.edu            
Do unto others before they do unto you.
"The future of the Arabs of Palestine was sacrificed to Egyptian politics"
						-Sir John Bagot Glubb

=======================================================================
Brian Harmon       "We are most unfair to God: we do not allow
Miami University	him to sin.."  -- Friedrich Nietzsche
Oxford, Ohio 45056  
(513) 529-5417		"..Knowledge is ruin to my young men"
  				    -- Adolf Hitler 
--------------bpharmon@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu--------------------------
Newsgroups: misc.headlines,soc.misc,talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.misc,alt.revisionism
From: jime@bullwinkle.atc.ll.mit.edu (Jim Eggert x6127 g41)
Subject: Re: Want facts?  "WHO RUNS THE MEDIA?  The Alarming Facts"
Organization: MIT Lincoln Lab - Group 41
	<1992Apr10.082142.7808@muddcs.claremont.edu>
	<JIME.92Apr10103806@bullwinkle.atc.ll.mit.edu>
	<BMnJtM.18B@world.std.com>
Date: 13 Apr 92 15:56:39

In article <BMnJtM.18B@world.std.com> DSPWorld@world.std.com (Amnon Aliphas) writes:
>   It looks like Jim Eggert's knowledge of history is deficient.
>
>   Most of the land taken by the U.S. in 1847, during the Mexican War was taken
>   by force from Mexico.  The U.S. forces were occupying Mexico City Sept.1847 and
>   Mexico, was forced to sign the Guadalupe-Hidalgo treaty by which Mexico
>   "ceded" California, Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, parts of Utah and Colorado,
>   and of course Texas (which was anexed before, and was the reason the war
>   started).
>
>   Get your facts straight before you post them.
>
>   Amnon Aliphas

Please reread my posting.  Here is the paragraph to which you reply:

In article <JIME.92Apr10233057@bullwinkle.atc.ll.mit.edu> jime@bullwinkle.atc.ll.mit.edu wrote:
>> CA and most of NM and AZ were taken by the US by force of military
>> arms from Mexico in 1846-48.  The US pretty much conquored Mexico and
>> kept the pieces it wanted.  Southern NM and AZ were bought
>> peacefully from Mexico in 1854.  Most of FL was bought from the
>> Spanish in 1821, after we took it anyway in 1818.

It seems that your posting and mine are consistent.
What exactly are you taking issue with?

--
=Jim  jime%atc.ll.mit.edu (Jim Eggert)
From: packer@amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov (Charles Packer)
Newsgroups: misc.headlines
Subject: Texas gas explosion
Date: 9 Apr 92 12:11:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: amarna.9APR199208111284
Organization: Dept. of Independence
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1

The New York Times had a story in Wednesday's edition
headlined "Gas Explosion Tears Through Texas Farmland".

It seems that liquified petroleum gas leaked out of a pipeline
and, being heavier than air flowed downhill into a valley.
This "cool, heavy cloud" allegedly exploded with such force
that it "rattled buildings 70 miles away and was heard
140 miles away."  And, almost needless to say, it allegedly
killed "a six-year-old boy," as well as doing some other
damage.

I've read in books on explosion damage assessment that
the key to a forceful gas explosion is confinement. Explosion
force is greatly attenuated the more sources of ventilation
there are. This "explosion" allegedly occurred in open air.

Well, there's a photo that's just as implausible as the story.
it shows, in the middle of a scene of rubble outdoors in bright
daylight, a man standing in stark black silhouette, with lots of
brightly lit objects in front of and behind him. And it looks
like the folks in the photo lab diddled with the contrast level
of the trees in the background too, to make one tree stand out
starkly.

The message in the photo is: this is a hoax. Once again, the
first page of news designated "National" by the Times looks like
the "Flaky Page", as it often has in the past. 
Newsgroups: misc.headlines,soc.misc,talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.misc,alt.revisionism
From: jime@bullwinkle.atc.ll.mit.edu (Jim Eggert x6127 g41)
Subject: Re: Want facts?  "WHO RUNS THE MEDIA?  The Alarming Facts"
Organization: MIT Lincoln Lab - Group 41
	<1992Apr10.170451.3075@ennews.eas.asu.edu>
	<JIME.92Apr10223708@bullwinkle.atc.ll.mit.edu>
	<1992Apr12.014433.29249@ennews.eas.asu.edu>
Date: 12 Apr 92 00:12:14

In article <1992Apr12.014433.29249@ennews.eas.asu.edu> makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky) writes:
>   [Characterizing the rock-throwing youths in the intifada as solely
>    responsible for their own deaths at the hands of the Israeli soldiers]
   ... may be propaganda.  I am not denying that.  But it is also the
   truth.  If you believe it is misleading please say why.  Since the
   "palestinians?" themselves glorify these children for their actions, I
   think you are barking up a tree you cannot climb.

If the Israeli soldiers didn't fire the guns, the Palestinians
wouldn't be killed.  All the Israeli government has to do to stop the
killings is to change their policies of crowd control in the occupied
areas.  The present policy for controlling the intifada by force,
might, shootings, and beatings has failed.  The Israeli government
must realize this by now, but they are unwilling to change their
tactics.

>   # designed to ease the consciences of the
>
>	   It is what has happened on a day to day basis.  The only
>   consciences that need to be eased are of the parents, who should be
>   prosecuted for child abuse.

After all, the Israelis have no consciences, they feel no guilt about
the ~1000 Palestinians shot to death since 1988.  (sarcasm)

>   # occupationists.
>
>	   The only occupationists are those Arabs living in homes that are
>   identifyably marked as Jewish homes by mezuzah holes (a mezuzah is a
>   Jewish ritual object).  There are many such homes in Judea and
>   Samaria.

Huh?  Haven't you heard, the Israeli military occupies the West Bank,
the Gaza Strip, and the Golan Heights, in contravention of UN
resolutions.  That makes them the occupationists.  Now if the Arabs
are getting away with living in Jewish houses against the wishes of
their rightful owners, arrest them.  Don't shoot them.
--
=Jim  jime%atc.ll.mit.edu (Jim Eggert)
Xref: sparky misc.headlines:3393 soc.misc:533 talk.politics.mideast:10776 talk.politics.misc:18208
From: makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Newsgroups: misc.headlines,soc.misc,talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.misc,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Deportations of Palestinians from the occupied territories
Date: 15 Apr 92 17:57:51 GMT
Reply-To: makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe AZ

In article <JIME.92Apr15121133@bullwinkle.atc.ll.mit.edu> jime@bullwinkle.atc.ll.mit.edu (Jim Eggert x6127 g41) writes:

# In article <1992Apr15.021458.361@midway.uchicago.edu> gross@befvax.uchicago.edu writes:

# >   I would just like to say, for the record, that I personally am opposed to
# >   any such 'transfer' of Palestinians from the territories.  Mr. Makowsky
# >   represents a small minority of Israelis, and an even smaller minority
# >   of Jewish supporters of Israel.  

# >   Most Jewish supporters of Israel, and most Israelis are opposed to any
# >   such 'transfer', and Mr. Makosky does not speak for them.  The vast majority
# >   believe that Palestinians have a right to live there.  

# >   The question of deporting INDIVIDUAL Palestinians, as a punishment for violent
# >   actions against Israel, is another question entirely.
 
# But even the deportation of individual Palestinians is against the Geneva
# Convention.

	No it is not.

# The world community does not in general support this
# action by Israel, and considers it contrary to international law.

	These declarations are bigoted and political, and not based on
morality or law.
--

David Makowsky
makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu
Xref: sparky misc.headlines:3188 talk.politics.misc:16961 talk.politics.mideast:10293 soc.misc:416 alt.activism:7256
From: dfpedro@nv2.uswnvg.com (Donn F. Pedro)
Newsgroups: misc.headlines,talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.mideast,soc.misc,alt.activism
Subject: Re: Where is B-CPU, you ask?
Date: 6 Apr 92 18:03:18 GMT
Followup-To: misc.headlines
Organization: US West NewVector, Bellevue, WA

In article <22V4HB1w164w@Nitro.CtEdge.COM> djk@Nitro.CtEdge.COM writes:
>What is the problem? They have a right to communicate too whether
>or not you like what they say. If they can be silenced (or scared
>into silence) - Then so can you.
>
>This is the US not the middle east or exUSSR.

In light of your bigoted and homophobic comments I find this
highly amusing and hypocritical at best.  Your traffic
in hate is guaranteed by 'free speech' and all, but you 
fail to see that the fruit of your labors harms what you claim
to protect.

>-- 'innovative solutions for modern problems' ----------------------

Hardly.


     Donn Pedro ...................{uunet, sequent, pn400}!uswnvg!dfpedro.
Xref: sparky misc.headlines:3394 soc.misc:534 talk.politics.mideast:10779 talk.politics.misc:18212
From: draughn@iitmax.iit.edu (Mark Draughn)
Subject: Re: Crowd size at abortion rights march
Organization: Illinois Institute of Technology
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 92 08:52:40 GMT

In article <MATT.92Apr12014558@physics1.berkeley.edu>
matt@physics.berkeley.edu writes:
[...]
>As a practical matter, of course, it is grossly unlikely that anybody
>other than the police and the rally organizers would be willing to
>take the trouble to do a careful estimate.  
>
>Actually, what I would like to see whenever crowd size estimates are
>reported is an error estimate as well.  

There are no "official" attendance figures at large public events that
take place in the open without controlled entrances and exits.
Everybody makes their own estimate.

The police don't really care how many people show up.  If it looks
like they need more police, they send more police.  If the cops are
standing around idle, they're reassigned elsewhere.

There's no official government office in charge of counting crowds, either.

There's probably money to be made here somewhere.  Perhaps one of the
big polling services could buy an airplane and camera equipment and
sell crowd-counting services to rally organizers.
-- 

Mark Draughn    | <draughn@iitmax.iit.edu> or <SYSMARK@IITVAX> on BITNET
----------------+ Academic Computing Center, Illinois Institute of Technology
+1 312 567 5962 | 10 W. 31st Street, Chicago, Illinois  60616
Xref: sparky misc.headlines:3283 talk.politics.misc:17663 talk.politics.mideast:10546 soc.misc:446