From: lmollett@lunatix.uucp (Laura Mollett)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Born in Bethlehem?
Date: 29 Dec 92 21:52:49 GMT
Organization: Lexington Public Access Unix. -KY- (606) 255-9121

In article <13736@optilink.COM> cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer) writes:
>In article <1992Dec27.010245.15835@lunatix.uucp>, lmollett@lunatix.uucp (Laura Mollett) writes:
>> In article <1992Dec26.132402.7206@sophia.smith.edu> orourke@sophia.smith.edu (Joseph O'Rourke) writes:
># #A. N. Wilson says in "Jesus: A Life" that it is extremely unlikely
># #that Jesus was born in Bethlehem.  Even if one takes everything in
># #the Bible as literally true, the birth in a stable remains pure
># #myth.  It is not mentioned in any of the Gospels.
># 
># Some of the (fairly) early apocraphal works portray Jesus' birth as in a 
># cave.  This corresponds to some "pagan" belief myths and are quite interesting.
>
>Buildings constructed in caves (natural or artificial) aren't unknown
>in that part of the world.  Not necessarily contradictory.
>
I'm not sure I meant to imply that alternative sources were "necessarily
contradictory."  However, if one was looking for such there are many, many
places were apocryphal literature is clearly contradictory.  That is one reason
why some of it _is_ apocryphal.  (There are many other reasons, apparent age,
trustworthiness of authors, expression of gnostic or other off-Christian       
ideologies, heresy etc. etc.  I have no intent to demean early Christian
fathers here - there are many places where I respect their choices of Gospels).

In any case, the "Gospels" I'm thinking of make it clear that they do not 
intend the "cave" and the "stable" to be identical.  Whether earlier sources
that contributed to these works had this in mind or not is pure speculation
as no such sources are extant.  You have also failed to identify a time period
for your comment, and I can only assume you mean "that part of the world" to
be Bethleham.  The writers of the apocryphal "infancy Gospels" are unlikely to
have had that much information on what kind of buildings were in use in 
Bethleham at the time of Jesus' birth as they aren't _that_ early. (Thomas, is
I believe, the earliest placed at approximately 150 AD - as well as one of the
most controversial - and I don't have a birth motif available from that one.)

The 3 sources that I'm aware of which mention the "cave" are "The Infancy 
Gospel of James (Protevangelium Jacobi) (The Birth of Mary)", "The Infancy
Gospel of Pseudo-Matthew:  The Book about the Origin of the Blessed Mary
and the Childhood of the Savior," and "A Latin Infancy Gospel:  The Birth
of Jesus."  "James" is the earliest of the three, but could not have been
written prior to 150 AD.  This Gospel is a major source of information on
Mary's birth, and childhood, providing much information to medieval artists
and Christian authors (I wondered for a long time how they knew Mary's parents
names as it is _not_ in the Bible - this is where it comes from.  "The meeting
of Anna and Joachim" is an important medieval artistic theme.  In any case,
the part that pertains to Jesus' birth in a cave goes:
	They were in the midst of the journey, and Mary said to him,
	'Joseph, take me down from the donkey, for that which is in me
	is ready to be born.'  He took her down from the donkey and
	said to her, 'Where shall I take you to shelter your shame?  For
	the place is desolate.'
		He found there a cave, and he brought her in and placed
	his sons beside her.  Then he went out to seek a Hebrew midwife in 
	the country of Bethlehem. ...[The midwife, Salome, is found; Mary
	gives birth, Salome examines her and finds her still virgin; the
	Magi come and present their gifts - still in the cave!; and Herod
	hears about the Birth and orders the killing of the innocents...]
		Mary, hearing that they were killing the babies, was
	frightened, and she took the child and wrapped him and placed him
	in a cow stable.

"Pseudo-Matthew" was probably written and compiled in the eighth or ninth
century.  The pertinent text follows:
	[Jesus' birth and Salome's examination approximately as above.]
	On the third day after the Lord's birth, Mary went out of the
	cave; she went into the stable and placed the child in a manager,
	and an ox and a donkey worshiped him.  Then that which was spoken
	through Isaiah the prophet was fulfilled:  'The ox knows his owner
	and the donkey his lord's manger."  These animals, with him
	between him, unceasingly worshiped him.  Thus that which was
	spoken through the prophet Habbakuk was fulfilled:  'You will be
	known between the two animals.'  Joseph and Mary stayed there
	with the child three days...

I only have a small piece of the "Latin Infancy Gospel" as my source contains
mostly exerpts and it starts after Mary is in the cave.  This one is medieval
and seems to be based on Pseudo-Matthew and James, though there are some
passages which are unique and a possible early source is theorized.
	[Joseph is seeking a midwife, and meets a woman coming towards him.
	The woman said to him, "Who is the young woman who will give birth in  
	this cave?"  ... They entered the cave....
	[There follows a long commentary on the miracle of the birth - no 
	pain, blood etc., and the perfection of the child from the point of
	view of the midwife, and that is all I have of that one.]

Source:  _The Other Bible_ edited by Willis Barnstone, pg. 383-406

There are many opinions and many beliefs in Christianity...even within the
Catholic Church, there are diverse opinions on apocryphal literature.  I
certainly intend no offense to anyone who rejects this material on whatever
basis.  However, there are also many subjects where an understanding of this
material is integral - medieval painting and writing, early Christian
mythology etc. etc. and if one is interested in alternative birth motifs for
Jesus, as the original poster seemed to be, this kind of thing would be
important.  I personally have no opinion on whether the historical Jesus was
born in or near Betheleham, in a stable or a cave, and am not convinced that
it is an important question.
				Laura Mollett
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books