From: zell@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Joseph Zell)
Subject: Re: God exists. Proof within.
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 18:45:12 GMT

robm@void.ncsa.uiuc.edu (Rob McCool) writes:

>This example is not a good one. The THEORY of Relativity is just that: a
>  theory. It has not been proven, even though the tests we are currently
>  able to use show that it is true. However, there are a lot of holes in
>  the theory which are unknown, and they remain precisely that. Unknown.
>  To say that these holes must act how we expect them to is speculation
>  and inference, not fact or logic. If one of these holes is disproven, 
>  another theory will come along. And it will be just that. A theory.

Science and Religion are treated very differently in that respect.  Look
at the THEORY of Evolution.  Yet many atheists out there cite it as 
FACT. School board can teach the THEORY of Evolution, but not the THEORY
of Creation.  Well, if it's only a Theory, then they should examine other
theories as well.  I don't want to start a seperation of church and state
argument :) but my point is that many (most?) people will use an unproven
theory put forth by science as absolute, irrefutable, can't be any other
way FACT, while a religious theory is judged by the fact that not everything
is there, so it's false. At least, that is the mindset I see a lot.  Nothing
will be accomplished in these discussions until the bias as gone.
Joe

>Moses disappeared on a mountain top for forty days and came back down 
>  again with ten laws on stone tablets for the Isrealites. Moses claims
>  that a bush was afire (but not consumed), and God gave him the tablets.
>  We have no proof one way or the other if he was right or not. The facts we
>  have, in the Bible or elsewhere, just don't logically lead to the 
>  conclusion that this must be the way it happened. Moses could have sat down
>  and written them himself for all we know. What happened up there is unknown,
>  and likely will never be. 

True. Just as we will nevre know what happened billions of years ago, when
supposedly a 10000 km across superatom exploded for no reason. Actually, another
fact (dealing with that Moses story above) that has confounded secular archeolo-
gists.  Back in the time of the Israelites, determined from the digs in that 
area, EVERY (but one) group of people had a very similar view of god. They 
saw him as a very angry and vengeful THING, which had to be appeased by 
sacrafices.  Except the Israelites.  Surrounded pn all sides by people with
this view, they had a view of a God that was a Person, that loved them and
cared for them.  Never has there been any example of anything developing like
this, with those conditions, in the known history of man.  Yes, maybe Moses
did make up the ten commandments. But could one man have affected a people
in such a positive way, when what they were believing was absolutely unheard
of in the area? You tell me. Again, not a proof of God, necessarily, but another
snipet of evidence.
Joe

-- 
Joe Zell               *  "I knew Thomas Jefferson. Thomas Jefferson was my  
zell@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu  *  friend..."
                       *            -Ronald Reagan, 1992 GOP convention speech
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