From: Tim.ONeill@english.utas.edu.au (Tim O'Neill)
Subject: Re: JESUS DIED AND IS RISEN (Re: Jesus Has Died)
Organization: University of Tasmania (Australia)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 02:37:01 GMT

In article <1993Jan11.025855.16617@news.ysu.edu>, af664@yfn.ysu.edu (Frank DeCenso, Jr.) writes:
 
> JESUS HAS RISEN!!!!
  
> MATTHEW 28:1-10 "Now after the Sabbath, as the first day of
> the week began to dawn, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary
> came to see the tomb. 

Hey! Where's Salome? Did she get lost on the way? But Mark says
she was there. And what about Joanna? Luke says she was there
too. Who *was* there? Your sources seem strangely confused.

> And behold, there was a great
> earthquake;

That's strange, Mark, Luke and John don't mention any earthquake.
I've never been in one myself, but apparently they are a little hard
to miss. 

> for an angel of the Lord descended from heaven,
> and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat on
> it. 

Wait a minute, Luke and Mark don't mention angels descending
and rolling back the stone. They say it was already rolled back
and they mention young men in white robes (one in Mark, two
in Luke) This is the most significant event in human history and
not the sort of thing the witnesses would forget, isn't odd that the
details differ so markedly. Still, I suppose that's what happens
when no-one can even remember exactly who the witnesses were.


> His countenance was like lightning, and his clothing as
> white as snow. And the guards shook for fear of him, and
> became like dead men. 

Guards? The other guys don't mention any guards. What's
going on here? This story sounds very suspicious.

> But the angel answered and said to the
> women, "Do not be afraid, for I know that you seek Jesus who
> was crucified. "He is not here; for He is risen, as He said.
> Come, see the place where the Lord lay. "And go quickly and
> tell His disciples that He is risen from the dead, and indeed
> He is going before you into Galilee; there you will see Him.
> Behold, I have told you."

Assuming that  Luke's two young men and this spectacular
angel of matthew's are somehow the same (fuck only knows
how) why does Luke neglect  to mention anything about going
to Galilee? 

> So they went out quickly from the
> tomb with fear and great joy, and ran to bring His disciples
> word.

Hang on, Mark tells us that they were too scared to tell anyone.
More confusion. I'm beginning to wonder if any of this stuff
happened at all.
  
> MATTHEW 28:16-20 "Then the eleven disciples went away into
> Galilee, to the mountain which Jesus had appointed for them.
> When they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some doubted. 
                                                                              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

The man has just risen from the dead and is standing in front of
their own eyes and SOME OF HIS OWN FOLLOWERS STILL DOUBT!!!
If that's the case can you really blame us for doubting when all the
evidence we have is some suspect and contradictory accounts written 
first century peasants.
   
> MARK 16:1-20 "Now when the Sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene,
> Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices, that they
> might come and anoint Him. Very early in the morning, on the
> first day of the week, they came to the tomb when the sun had
> risen. And they said among themselves, "Who will roll away
> the stone from the door of the tomb for us?"

If they couldn't roll away the stone why were they going at all?
Again, this story sounds like bullshit already. 

>  But when they
> looked up, they saw that the stone had been rolled away--for
> it was very large. 

Hey! Where's Matthew's angel? Did Mark forget about him?
And what about the earthquake? Didn't they notice it?

I don't know about you Frank, but people in the first century believed
a lot of very strange things. When I read about such things, even in
reliable historians like Tacitus and Seutonius, I tend not to believe
them. So when you present me with some jumbled and confused stories
about people rising from the dead which seem to have developed 
amongst some Galilean peasants who thought the world was about to
end, I'm afraid I can't get too excited about it. Incidently, John the
Baptist's followers believed he'd risen from the dead. If they were
right, why don't you worship him as a God? If they were wrong, doesn't
this seem to indicate that the social and religious climate of the time
was right for people to delude themselves about this sort of thing?
Try replying in your own words, I've already read the gospels many
times and I'd like to hear from you.
Cheers

Tim O'Neill
Tasmanian Devil
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc