HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: ***NBJ Players***
From: <RBPJ4H@rohvm1.rohmhaas.com>
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 11:18:23 EST
Organization: Rohm and Haas Company

     Hi, I have just gotten access to the board and still don't know how to
return mail to an individual user... there is no instruction book for the
system that I have gotten access through, but none the less I am still posting
and receiving mail... even if I can't do anything with as of yet!

     I have two questions :

1) Are there any NBJ blackjack players out there? I am looking to form a team
   with some other players, I live in philadelphia and go to AC often!
2) Where is Foxwood? I was planning on taking a trip up there for the weekend
   and would like to know if anyone would like to get together for the ride?

     I would appreciate any responses that I would get or any information that
any one could give me, maybe also about the ins and outs of Foxwood and were
the best game is! Thanks!!!

John J. Heger
(215) 949-1638
Xref: sparky rec.gambling:6554 rec.sport.football.pro:33773
From: tanj@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (TanJ)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling,rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Need some Super Bowl information
Date: 22 Jan 1993 23:47:20 GMT
Organization: Scuba_One
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4
Originator: tanj@csd4.csd.uwm.edu


I would like to know what ALL of the odds are for the Super Bowl are besides
Dallas 7/44.5.

On ESPN on Sunday (or Monday?) I saw odds like the first person scoring first,
if the final score is 2-0, if the final score is 3-0....and I did not tape
that.  This is the type of information that I am looking for.

Please reply to me via e-mail because I do not have time to read
this newsgroup.

Thanks in advance
TanJ
tanj@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
tang7468@miller.cs.uwm.edu
tang7469@miller.cs.uwm.edu
-- 
I, hate the rain and sunny weather, and I, hate the beach and mountains too;
(and) I don't like a thing about the city, no, no and I hate the country side
too!  and I, hate everything about you! ... everything about you!
From: gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary L. Newell)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Double Down Stud
Date: 26 Jan 93 18:39:38 GMT
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson


 One final question about this game. It was mentioned as being available at
the Hilton - which other casinos offer DDS tables? I'm particularly interested
in casinos on the strip but even something downtown or nearby the strip 
would be helpful - thanks,


					gln

Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: rbmoore@crchh84b.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Robert Moore)
Subject: Craps Odds & Casino Ratings
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1993 16:15:22 GMT
Organization: BNR, Inc.


NOTICE TO CRAPS PLAYERS!  (This belongs in the FAQ)

I was awakened to a harsh reality this past weekend when my rating was cut by 2/3rds.

Prior to this trip, I was only rated at Caesars.  I ASSumed, and oh was and ASSumption
it was, that I would be better off, comp wise, at the Golden Nugget, who would not expect
as much.

When it comes to your overall rating, Golden Nugget does not count your odds bet at all!
"The casino does not make anything off the odds bet, so why should we count it?"

Moral to the story:  Know how the casino figures ratings.  From what I gather, each casino
may or may not count the odds.


I for one would like to see a comprehensive list of Casinos and whether or not they rate
the odds bet.

My guess is that most casinos do not, but the higher ends do.  This would seem to me be a
severe dissadvantage to Blackjack players however -- If it takes $100/hand to get a room at
caesars, the BJ player is sweating bullets.  The craps player only has to bet $10 take double
odds, and keep betting the come line with double odds = ($10 pass + $20 odds) * (point + 5
remaining numbers) = $90/hand.  Close enough to $100, that I'll play for extra hours if needed.

Now reverse the situation, $25 might get you a Casino Rate Room at the Nugget.  BJ Player
bets $25/hand.  Craps player bets ($25 pass + $50 odds) * (6 numbers) = $450/hand.  Now the
dissadvantage is for Craps players.  A few bad sessions, and you bankroll is gone!

Comments please!

Now don't get me wrong.  I like the Nugget a lot - I like it best of the Downtown Casinos.
But right now, I think I would prefer to stay and play craps at Caesars.

Robert Moore
From: freedman@cs.colostate.edu (keith freedman)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Development in Vegas...
Date: 26 Jan 93 17:55:28 GMT
Article-I.D.: yuma.Jan26.175528.55895
Reply-To: freedman@cs.colostate.edu
Organization: Colorado State University -=- Computer Science Department

In article 74357@cup.portal.com, Harv@cup.portal.com (Harv R Laser) writes:
>Besides the new MGM Grand, the Luxor (pyramid) and Treasure Island,
>there's also something weird going up near Vegas World.. looks
>like 2 or 3 very tall tower type things leaning into each other.
>No idea what it is but cranes were working on it when I was in
>town during CES. 

The tower type things near vegas world are the base structure for a SINGLE
TOWER.  It is supposed to be the LARGES TOWER IN THE COUNTRY or something
like that.  There is going to be a huge casino at the top!!

---
Keith Freedman
Colorado State University
Department of Computer Science
Systems Administration
From: gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary L. Newell)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Opinions on "Red Dog"?
Date: 23 Jan 93 08:33:48 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson

In article <JACOBS.93Jan22170058@cells.cs.utah.edu>, jacobs@cs.utah.edu (Steven R Jacobs) writes:
> It isn't that bad, not even close.  The house edge for Red Dog is a bit
> less than 3%, the exact edge depends on the number of decks.  Better

 This is of course correct. I should have kept my mouth shut until I had
a chance to look at my source. Having since done so, I did not
see anything similar to what I had thought I saw  - frankly I'm not
sure where I got this idea except that I did see some weird oriental
game that had bad odds - I'm very sorry about this - I'll have to keep my
mouth shut or keep my source in the office before responding again :-)


			gln
From: ST801904@brownvm.brown.edu ()
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: OVER-UNDER BLACKJACK at Foxwoods = Profita
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 11:50:43 EST
Organization: Brown University - Providence, Rhode Island  USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: brownvm.brown.edu
X-News-Software: BNN via BNN_POST v1.0 beta

In article <1k6jm5INNbs7@network.ucsd.edu>, erwin@bend.ucsd.edu (Sean Erwin)
said:
>
>No.  Here's what you do, if you want to get the max. advantage possible for
>any BJ on the east coast:  Go to foxwoods.  Stand behind some player, and
>keep the over/under count.  Don't bother playing through the shoe, you'll
lose.
>Then, when the Hi/Lo count goes favorable (remember those are values for *true
>counts*, not running counts) near the end of the shoe, put a bet in the
>appropriate circle.  At Foxwoods, you can bet on someone else's hand.  Since
>you are only betting on the value of the first two cards, no amount of inept
>playing on that player's behalf can lose you your money.  Of course, if you're
>really daring, keep the normal count simultaneously, and bet behind a player's
>bet when it gets good.  But be sure to pick someone who seems to have some
idea
>of basic strategy!
>
>---Sean Erwin

      Excellent idea. The only problem is that I believe the
bet in the over/under circle can be no larger than the bet in the main circle,
so I'd have to find someone who is betting high only on the main bet, or
otherwise place a backline bet in the main circle as well as the over/under,
in which case they'd better be playing basic strategy or a close approximation!

- Geoff Talvola
st801904@brownvm.brown.edu
From: 22sullivan@gw.wmich.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Development in Vegas...
Date: 25 Jan 93 13:13:55 EST
Organization: Western Michigan University

In article <1993Jan24.161029.17998@sol.ctr.columbia.edu>, lizakre@snybufva.cs.snybuf.edu (Rob Lizak Jr.) writes:
> Hello rec.gamblers!
> 
>    I will be making my reservations to head back to Vegas at the end of August
> (our travel agent has told us the best deals for August will be available March
> 1, hopefully :) ).  We will be staying at the Rio once again...  anyone who
> rags on the Rios location obviously has never stayed there... the place is just
> that nice!  (I mean the rooms guys, not the cocktail waitresses, even though
> they are beyond nice  :)  ).  Anyways, my mom asked me to post a message asking
> about the developments on the strip, the theme park?  or other things going on. 
> If anyone can provide me with some information of whats going on in development
> in Vegas, please let me know, I'd really appreciate it.
> 
> Thanks!
> Rob Lizak Jr.
> 
> lizakre@snybufva.cs.snybuf.edu
> lizakre@snybufva.bitnet
> 



     I just got back from Vegas yesterday 1/24.  I don't think anything that
I saw will be close to done by the time you get their.  There is the MGM going
up by the Tropicana and Excaliber.  This will be the new biggest hotel in the
world with the most rooms.  It will have a theme park behind it with what
looked like mostly water rides.  They have a very small building you can go
into that has a scale model of the finished product as well as various
literature on the hotel.  You can also buy a t-shirt.  The place looks like it
will be gigantic.  The sign say's Hear Us Roar In '94.  
     Next to the Excaliber is another hotel that I belive will resemble a large
pyramid.  I don't reallyknow much about it.
     Next to the Mirage is a place being built called Treasure Island which
will have a pirate theme.  The Mirage hotel has a scale model of it by the 
lobby across from the check-in and large aquarium.
     Thats about all the development I saw.  I never ventured out of the strip
so as to anything else I dont know.



Peter Sullivan
COLD IN KALAMAZOO!!!!!!

Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: sextonm@rddvax.decnet.lockheed.com
Subject: Want holdem book
Organization: Lockheed Palo Alto Research Labs
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 23:24:19 GMT

Can any one recomend a good book (with odd calculations) about the
various hold'em variations?

Thanks in advance...
		Matt
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: freedman@cs.colostate.edu (keith freedman)
Subject: Re: 100% SURE THING
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 00:21:21 GMT
Reply-To: freedman@cs.colostate.edu
Organization: Colorado State University -=- Computer Science Department

In article 10868@engage.pko.dec.com, cantor@star.enet.dec.com (Dave Cantor) writes:
>In article <2336.27.uupcb@uttsbbs.uucp>, paul.westley@uttsbbs.uucp (Paul Westley) writes...
>> [...]
>>She also told me to avoid the multi-action blackjack - you bet your hand
>>3 times (minimum $10 each), then get your cards - you'd better not bust
>>'cos the dealer then deals 3 sets of cards, one set at a time, and
>>compares it to your hand.  (If you busted, you just lost all 3 hands).
>>This game seems terrible from many angles, not the least of which is you
>>might hit 15 against a 9 showing, but the dealers other 2 hands could
>>have 6 showing, in fact I'm not even sure you get to see the first
>>dealer hand.
>
>Nope.  The dealer uses the same up card for all three hands, but gets
>a new hole card for each one.  If you hit 15 against a 9, you have hit
>15 against 9 for all three hands.  Yeah, that's not an ideal hand, so it
>seems bad to have to play it 3 times, but when you get 11 and double down
>against a dealer's 5, it's nice to have it take effect 3 times.
>

These are TWO DIFFERENT games.  There is tripple-action as described first
and tripple-play as described second.  I prefer the tripple-play as I
immediately know (or can speculate anyways) if I'm gonna win 3 or not.

The basic idea on both is not to bust.  Figure anything is better than
busting since you quickly loose 3 times and loose all hope of the
dealer even busting once.  Nice is when you loose the first hand and
win the next two (so your still ahead).  Nicer is to get BJ and get
paid 1.5 X3.

---
Keith Freedman
Colorado State University
Department of Computer Science
Systems Administration
From: Harv@cup.portal.com (Harv R Laser)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Playing slots
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 10:50:56 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world

>
>Is there really a viable "slots strategy", other than continuously
>stuffing <coin denomination> into the machine, and hoping it pays off
>before your financial resources disappear?  Logic tells me no, but....
>
>Jon Arnold                        Phone: W: 603-883-1233
>Nashua, New Hampshire             Fax:   W: 603-883-7350
>                                         H: 603-883-6371
>
Well there are a couple other interesting slot tidbits... play
a machine to get a few coins to fall out. If the coins are real
warm, then they've been in the machine a long time, meaning the
machine's primed to spew its load soon. (Slots only pay out a
certain few hundreds of coins on a large jackpot, the rest of
the payout is handed to the (lucky) winner in cash by a casino
worker). If the coins come out stone cold, move to another machine.

Or... hand some cash to one of the change women (they're ALWAYS
women, at EVERY casino, aren't they? Why is this :-) and tip her
and ask her to point you towards a machine that's primed and
ready. 

I'll admit that neither of these "tips" has ever worked very well
for me at all.. I've played slots, from nickels to dollars at
dozens of Vegas casinos and never hit a jackpot over $50 or so.

Harv
From: tdm1@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (TRISTAN DESOTO MILLER)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Need some Super Bowl information
Date: 23 Jan 93 16:10:44 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

In article <1jq128INN5c5@uwm.edu>, tanj@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (TanJ) writes:
>
>I would like to know what ALL of the odds are for the Super Bowl are besides
>Dallas 7/44.5.

So would I!  I would appreciate it if someone could even tell me where I could
find these odds in a nation-wide, printed forum.

Tristan
--
From: jacob@ocf.berkeley.edu (Jacob Jin)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: THE DIVINE MASTERS *AGAINST* gambling
Date: 26 Jan 1993 12:21:09 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
NNTP-Posting-Host: earthquake.berkeley.edu

In article <1993Jan25.172151.3294@cnsvax.uwec.edu> mcelwre@cnsvax.uwec.edu writes:
>     
>               Thirdly, the primary function of each Master is to tune 
>          His Initiates into the "AUDIBLE LIFE STREAM" or "SOUND 
>          CURRENT", (referred to as "THE WORD" in John 1:1-5, and as 
>          "The River of Life" in Revelation 22:1), and to personally 
>          guide each of them thru the upper levels of Heaven while they 
>          are still connected to their living physical bodies by a 
>          "silver cord". 

This is true, and a good example of that is Gary Baze who in this
race tuned into his filly, "Beelzebub", on the final turn and
rallied to show. Still, even at 22:1, Revelation was a solid
bet, and coupled with my pick, Hammer 'n' Nails (13:1), paid
a fairly celestial exacta.
From: slick@netcom.com (Martin Veneroso)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Should I return the money back?
Date: 27 Jan 93 01:29:02 GMT
Article-I.D.: netcom.1993Jan27.012902.21669
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

alan@ahmcs.mq.com (Alan Mintz) writes:

>Brings up another point, though. I've never actually seen a "tip basket"
>at a cashier's window. At Morongo (about 20 tables - near Palm Springs),
>though, the cashiers have been known to "check hustle". Does anyone tip
>cashiers (non-LV poker or LV)? Am I the only stiff?

In the bay area clubs where I have played, the Cameo, Garden City and
Artichoke Joe's the cashiers keep a small basket of tumbler at the side
of the counter (on their side of the barrier) with some checks and bills
in them to indicate that they are intended to hold tips.  I was surprised
by the lack up such a thing at the cage in the Oaks when I cashed out on
Sunday, and even asked another person in the line where one puts tips for
the cashiers and was informed that the cashiers were not toked there.  Come
to think of it, I don't recall seeing anyone toke a cashier in Nevada
except for the poker cashier at the Palace Station in Las Vegas;  perhaps
there is some reason why main casino cashiers do not get toked but poker
cashiers do.  In any event, I have come into the habit of leaving one or two
dollars for the cashier when I cash out with a profit.
-- 
s/Martin Veneroso
slick@netcom.com
From: ron@osf.org (Ron Birnbaum)
Subject: Re: Dunes ???
Keywords: Closing ??
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 17:56:58 GMT

In article <winslade.728109132@cwis>, winslade@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Winslade) writes:
|> A coworker told me today that a FOAF* told him that the Dunes in LV
|> was shutting down.  Is this true or just rumor ??

  It's true - as already posted in this group. AP reports that the new owner
is trying to get Hollywood to buy the rights to blow up the towers for use
in a movie. 

-Ron


|>  
|> Good day       JSW
|> 
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: jacobs@cs.utah.edu (Steven R Jacobs)
Subject: Re: Opinions on "Red Dog"?
In-reply-to: gln@cs.arizona.edu's message of 22 Jan 93 21:21:30 GMT
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept
Distribution: usa
Date: 22 Jan 93 17:00:58

In article <30339@optima.cs.arizona.edu> gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary L. Newell) writes:
>
>   In article <74154@cup.portal.com>, Harv@cup.portal.com (Harv R Laser) writes:
>> What's the general opinion of the group mind here on the card game
>> known as "Red Dog" (also referred to as Acey Ducey, or In-Betweens,
>> or Between the Sheets)? 
>
> I'm sure that someone with more exact knowledge than I can give you
> the specifics but everything I have read indicates that it is a big-time
> sucker bet intended to draw people who are totally clueless about
> playing cards and who would otherwise be too intimidated to play
> blackjack for example. I have a book at home which gives the actual
> house advantage but if memory serves it was well into the double digits.
> I could be wrong but I sure seem to remember something like a 12 or 14%
> advantage for the house. Anyone know for sure?

It isn't that bad, not even close.  The house edge for Red Dog is a bit
less than 3%, the exact edge depends on the number of decks.  Better
than Roulette, even using CQM5 ;-)  The game is beatable by computer
when played with a single deck and a large bet spread, but is typically
dealt from a 5 deck shoe.

--
Steve Jacobs  ({bellcore,hplabs,uunet}!utah-cs!jacobs, jacobs@cs.utah.edu)
"Don't worry, I just have these harmless pocket rockets...."
From: jarnold@tixel.mv.com (Jon Arnold)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Roulette: RSSM, CQX5M, etc - where is info??
Distribution: world
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 23:20:15 GMT
Organization: 
Reply-To: jarnold@tixel.mv.com

I know I've asked about RSSM for Roulette in this group before, but I
never got an answer or mail, and the recent posting about "CQX5M"
prompted me to ask again: where can one find out information about
these Roulette systems?  I've checked at a couple of bookstores, but
didn't see anything specifically pertaining to "roulette systems" in
the gaming section.

Can anyone provide a pointer to a file on the net, or the name and
author of a *good* book on the topic?  (Hopefully one which discusses
"RSSM" and/or "CQX5M", whatever those are)?

Thanks,

Jon Arnold                        Phone: W: 603-883-1233
Nashua, New Hampshire             Fax:   W: 603-883-7350
                                         H: 603-883-6371

      "If you ain't the lead dog, the view never changes."

Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: picasso@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Marcus A Picasso)
Subject: BJ in Finland (Was: Re: BJ in Sweden)
Organization: University of Helsinki
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 09:36:31 GMT

In article <JACOBS.93Jan20153148@cells.cs.utah.edu> jacobs@cs.utah.edu (Steven R Jacobs) writes:
>In article <1993Jan19.100909.3964@tdb.uu.se> t88smb@tdb.uu.se (Martin Bergstroem) writes:
>> In Sweden Blackjack is played with the following rules:
>>	   -6 decks
>>	   -Dealer stands on soft 17
>>	   -Splitting is allowed
>>	   -No doubling after splitting
>>	   -Double on 7/8/9/10/11
>>	   -No surrender
>>	   -Push occurs ONLY on 20 and 21
>
>Does this mean that the house wins all ties of 17, 18, and 19?  If so,
>then this gives a HUGE edge to the house.

  I think it means that. This is how ""Blackjack"" (they really should
call it soemthing else :) is played in Finland:

   - 6 decks
   - S17
   - Splitting allowed, 1 card on aces, no resplitting
   - no DAS
   - Double on 9, 10, 11
     (doubling soft 19 (A8) turns it to a hard 9 i.e. double-card 2 =>
      sum 11 !)
   - No surrender
   - Only Blackjack/Blackjack and 21/21 pushes the dealer
   - Insurance
   - >95% penetration
     (The dealer shuffles right after the cut-card is dealt; even if a
      game is in process.)

>> Does anyone know how this affects basic strategy and the % against the
>> player?
>
>These rules are too weird.  I would estimate a house edge of 4% to 6%.

  The optimal basic strategy is:
     DO NOT EVEN THINK ABOUT PLAYING!

  My estimate of the house edge is about 15 % (I remeber doing some
simulations, but I may be wrong).

  PS. The one and only casino (Casino RAY) in Finland offers better
rules (regarding pushes, DAS etc.), but unfortunately they use 6 decks..
(Quite good penetration, though).

>--
>Steve Jacobs  ({bellcore,hplabs,uunet}!utah-cs!jacobs, jacobs@cs.utah.edu)
>"Don't worry, I just have these harmless pocket rockets...."

--
Marcus A Picasso
e-mail: picasso@cc.Helsinki.FI
From: tanaka@til.til.com (Yokichi Tanaka)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Craps
Keywords: craps
Date: 26 Jan 93 02:49:39 GMT
Organization: Togai InfraLogic, Inc.

In article <hunt.727506498@shy.umd.edu>, hunt@shy.umd.edu (Brian Hunt) writes:
|> kubey@sgi.com (Ken Kubey) writes:
|> >[SOME NICE CALCULATIONS DELETED]
|> 
|> >Pass  49.293 %
|> >Don't Pass  49.299 %
|> 
|> >Some people count the "bar" number (12 in my calculations) as half
|> >a win and therefore come up with a different number.  
|> >I think those people should be locked up. :-)
|> 

Your numbers above do not make sense.  As I recall, on a 12, both
Pass and Don't Pass loses, right?  In that case, the probability 
of a 12 = 1/36 = 2.7778% is both lose.  With your numbers, it's 
1.4%.  Something wrong there.  My numbers are:

   Pass        49.292929%
   Don't Pass  47.929292%  (49.3182% if 12 is a push for Don't Pass)
   Both Lose    2.777778% = 1/36

You don't even need fancy calculations ..

                                  Conditional Prob. based on 1st Roll
   First Roll   Prob of 1st Roll   Pass     Don't Pass
        2            1/36            0          1
        3            2/36            0          1
        4            3/36           1/3        2/3
        5            4/36           2/5        3/5
        6            5/36           5/11       6/11
        7            6/36            1          0
        8            5/36           5/11       6/11
        9            4/36           2/5        3/5
       10            3/36           1/3        2/3
       11            2/36            1          0
       12            1/36            0          0 (or 0.5)

For each line, all you need to do is multiply Pass/DP numbers
by the "Prob of 1st roll" number and sum down each column.

I always play Don't Come.  If you think about it, people usually
leave the table after a 7-out.  If you play Don't Come, that means
you leave on an up spike (especially if you had bets on 3 or 4 numbers
plus the don't pass bet).  And if you took odds on your don't come,
it can be even a bigger spike.

-- 
Yoke Tanaka                Togai InfraLogic, Inc.       "fuzzy"
tanaka@til.com             5 Vanderbilt, Irvine, Calif 92718, USA
gordius!til!tanaka         714-975-8522