HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Original_To:  BITNET%"mbu-l@ttuvm1.bitnet"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 1992 21:31:00 EDT
From:         "Composition Digest (Robert Royar,
              Moderator)" <R0MILL01@ULKYVX.BITNET>
Subject:      (Fwd: *C&CD*) Entropy on botany bay (9)

Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 1992 20:17:30 EDT
From:         IN%"RobertRoyar@Delphi.com" Robert Royar (C&CD Moderator)
Message-Id:   <1992Sep10.201730.1.Grendel.Lair@Cratylus>
Subject:      Entropy on botany bay (9)
Reply-to:     IN%"R0MILL01@ULKYVX.LOUISVILLE.EDU"  C&CD
Organization: Cratylus Educational Software

>Robert Boyar,
>   And have you found that the "daemon" keeps entropy at bay?  :)

>Jim Shimabukuro

It tends to increase the entropy but I have fun in the chaos.  "Whoops
there's a minor bug" And 50K of messages eat up an additional $12.00 per
site for the 152 subscribers (a paltry $1824.00 in extra line and connect
costs).  Imagine all that text as it hits the satelite uplink station and
heads to your site in Hawaii or Thomas Ng's in Nottingham.  Imagine all that
electro magnetic encoding zinging through the (non-existent) ether
practically crest to trough with garbled encrypted military secrets and
pornographic movies piped into our homes (who can tell which is which?)

 -- Robert Royar (RobertRoyar@Delphi.com) New York Institute of Technology
 Give me entropy, or give me enthalpy, but don't give me an exothermic reaction

------------------------------
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Date:         Mon, 14 Sep 1992 16:40:00 EST
From:         00D0HENRIKSE@BSUVAX1.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Texas

My collegue, Merrielle Turnbull has attempted several times to subscribe
to the MBU list without success.

Is there someone reading this list who could subscribe her so she
can join all these good discussions?

Thanks; her bitnet address is:

<00m0turnbull@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu>

Donna Henriksen   <00d0henrikse@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu>
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Date:         Sat, 12 Sep 1992 15:34:53 -0400
From:         "Stuart A. Moulthrop" <sm51@PRISM.GATECH.EDU>
Subject:      ReComposing

Many messages ago, Rob Royar said the whole Texas/English vsComposition
string was "interesting but not productive," which at that point was
probably a good judgement.  Now I wonder if he'd have a different
opinion, because I do.  This string has been productive for me of a
clearer understanding of, as John Slatin recently said, the interplay
of local and national forces.

After reading Rob's account of the vicissitudes of comp at his campus,
I saw the entire wisdom of his position, not to mention the righteous
motive for his distrust of litproffery.  What I also saw was that we
are at cross purposes here, locally being driven to insist on autonomy
and professional specialization (and this is true of lit people as well
as comp) while the national trend toward increased ideological interference
demands not fragmentation but stronger alliances.

Is there an answer?  Maybe, and I think Rob Royar has it (though it
maybe hasn't occurred to him).  Rob mentioned that "multicultural" is
the accepted ideal of curriculum design at his school (count yourself
lucky in that).  Why not argue that "multicultural" means (and it does)
more than just ethnicity, belief system, social class: it applies to
academics and disciplines too.  Hey Rob, if they insist that culture
means blacks and whites and hispanics and asians, et al., then why
won't they accept that academic culture means empiricists and cognitivists
and deconstructors and formalists, u.s.w.?

Yeah, easier said than done.  But it does seem a way of cutting through
the inconsistency that pits our local goals against our global ones.

Stuart Moulthrop
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Date:         Tue, 8 Sep 1992 22:48:30 --500
From:         SLATIN@UTXVM.BITNET
Subject:      Texas

Bob King is still Acting Dean of Liberal Arts down here, Stuart.  Bill
Cunningham-- President of UT Austin when you were here-- is now Chancellor of
the UT System, effective last week.  The change to the new Division is
formally announced in a letter from Cunningham to King dated 28 August,
Cunningham's last day in office as President before moving downtown to the
System Office. In the letter, Cunningham describes this as one of the most
exciting developments he's participated in.

John S
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Date:         Tue, 8 Sep 1992 13:37:05 -0500
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From:         TWBATSON@GALLUA.BITNET
Subject:      Trent's Address

David Schwalm:  some people this summer said they had to capitalize
my address for it to work.  Other people seem to have no problem at
all (and I notice the listserv has no problem getting through and
the listserv address is the same as ever).  Since this seems to be
such a selective problem, I'm puzzled.

If anyone out there has some wisdom to offer about this seeming
imponderable, speak up.

Trent Batson
twbatson@gallua.bitnet
twbatson@gallux.gallaudet.edu
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Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 1992 12:47:25 CDT
From:         McDonald James C <jcm5337@USL.EDU>
Subject: Re: Texas

John B, I'd be surprised to hear that Maxine Hairston's articles and addresses
calling for the separation of writing programs from English departments was
behind Texas' decision to split the comp program off from the English
Department, even if her articles were cited
(Were they?).
  Since retiring several years ago, Maxine has taught only one term a year and
spends most of the year out of Austin.  And I thought the controversy over
Linda Brodkey's Writing about Difference course pretty much shoved whatever
remained from past controversies out of the picture.
  My impression from UT faculty and students I talked to when the proposal was
made in midsummer was that the university is responding to the bad publicity and
to faculty and alumni concerns about the "politicization" of freshman compositio
n over Brodkey's proposed syllabus and probably to a general distrust of the
English Department due to a long history of well-publicized controversies
regarding the writing program.  I don't think this move comes out of a convic-
tion that literature faculty should not be in charge of a writing program but
that the faculty of this English Department, including rhet/comp faculty who
helped design and supported Writing about Difference, shouldn't be in charge.
  If the university is hoping for a return to a skills approach to teaching
composition, as some faculty were arguing a couple of years ago, it'll be very
interesting to see how the university will attempt to achieve this.  Maybe the
university just hopes that if the writing program is removed from the English
Department, it will stop making headlines in _The Chronicle of Higher Education_
and becoming the subject of editorials and columns by George Will and Molly
Ivins.
  I don't know what parallels there are to this--maybe others do.  This isn't a
case of the English Department trying to get rid of freshman English or of the
composition faculty breaking loose from the English Department to gain more
control over the program.  This is more a case of a university taking back its
service course from the English department.  How it will design, run, and staff
the writing program will be very interesting.
  Anyway, that's the way this Texas Ex sees the situation right now.  I'd love
to hear from those who are closer to what's going on who may have a better view.
    Jim McDonald
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Date:         Sat, 5 Sep 1992 09:20:20 --500
From:         SLATIN@UTXVM.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Ice T and Murphy Brown

Hey, Ben Shook, conservative family person: it's also possible to discuss
whether Ice T is more interesting than Murphy Brown, or vice versa (and some
would argue that neither of them is particularly interesting, right?).  One
might even grant your judgment of Ice T without wanting therefore to avoid
discussing him in classroom discussions of the shape of contemporary culture
and the rhetorical situation we all inhabit.

John Slatin
Liberal/progressive family person
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Date:         Sat, 12 Sep 1992 11:06:00 EST
From:         "JEFFREY R. GALIN" <GALIN@PITTVMS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: (Fwd: *C&CD*) Splitting comp

I've been following this discussion about Texas with a great deal of
interest.  More issues concerning the status and function of composition
as a discipline have been raised in the past 20 or so messages on this
topic than on any list I have subscribed to over the past year and a
half.  Because of research I am currently doing on about 15 programs of
composition across the country which have been primarily influenced by
one or two faculty who are still around to discuss their programs with
me and because of my interest in composition as a discipline, I have been
saving all of the messages from this discussion in a single folder.  If
anyone is interested in seeing the entire discussion in a single sweep
I'd be glad to send out a copy.
        I do have one request.  I accidentally deleted the first two
messages, the original post from John and the first response to it.  I
I would greatly appreciate a copy of those two posts if anyone still has
them.  I think there is a great deal to be learned from this discussion,
how those of us within the discipline are defining the problems and aims
of composition, how some explanations of the events at UT have been
characterized primarily in ideological terms by some, in practical terms
by others, and in pedagogical terms by still others.  Certainly none of
these categories are exclusive, but the rhetorics of the messages tend
to follow certain paths.  Just thought I'd raise the discussion for a
discussion before it burns out.
        Again, if anyone has those first two posts, I'd appreciate a
copy.

jeff galin
galin@vms.cis.pitt.edu
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Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 1992 12:54:19 MDT
From:         CQ00000 <CQ00@UTEP.BITNET>
Subject:      Help! Mac software needed

As we breathlessly await the installation of our Macintosh network,
we find ourselves in need of a control/administration/monitoring
type program.  We need to let students sign in, provide class
files, do testing, and keep the system files from prying mice/
fingers.  Can anyone recommend an administrative network
control system for us to investigate?  Please give vendor, price,
and any other info you have.
Marianne Phinney
U. of Texas at El Paso
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Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 1992 14:11:50 EST
From:         Bob Child <vsf@SAGE.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Help! Mac software needed
              92 12:54 pm

> We need to let students sign in, provide class
> files, do testing, and keep the system files from prying mice/
> fingers.  Can anyone recommend an administrative network
> control system for us to investigate?  Please give vendor, price,
> and any other info you have.


> Marianne Phinney,

It sounds as if you're looking for RevRdist, a freeware program that
was developed by Dale Talcott at the Purdue University Computing
Center.  RevRdist works well on a Mac network where the individual
Macs have hard disks because it goes in at intervals (preset by you
and/or run manually) and examines the HD of each Mac, discarding
anything that ain't sposed to be there and replacing anything that has
inadvertantly gotten removed.  To set it up you simply place the
RevRdist application and a RevRdist preferences file (built by you to
match that machine's hd) in the Startup Items folder in the System
Folder.  The pref file accesses a distribution file on the Server and
does the review and redistribution.  It's a fairly straightforward
program, but it takes a bit of head scratching to set up the
distribution files at first.

It's available by anonymous ftp from purdue, but I'll have to dig
around and find the proper paths for you.... or you might send mail to
Dale Talcott (aeh@j.cc.purdue.edu), the author of the program.  He can
obviously give you more info.


    --                                                          --
      Bob Child, Instructional Lab Coordinator, Heav 227 & SC 30
      Purdue University Computing Center / Department of English
      Internet: vsf@sage.cc.purdue.edu  /  Phone: (317) 742-7667
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Date:         Tue, 8 Sep 1992 19:53:11 CDT
From:         Bob Boston <S2.RSB@ISUMVS.IASTATE.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Critical Thinking & Assigned Tasks

As usual, Uncle Bob comes in late, trying to repeat what others have been
saying.  Here are some observations:

Three more cheers for Russ, and three for Lili as well. Kids always want rules
and deadlines and constraints.  So they can break them, ignore them, and gripe
about those they can't break or ignore. (The latter is a basic human need. If
we don't have rules about something, we create them just so we can complain
about them later.)

Will Jumper, who taught me almost everything I know about writing fiction and
poetry, always said that no poet could write free verse without writing a
sonnet first, for to feel truly free you have to know what you are free from.

Before test pilots can push the limits of the envelope, they have to have an
envelope-- a set of parameters established by the engineers.

The most common complaint I get in student evaluations of my creative writing
courses is that I don't set strict deadlines for assignments.  The students
can revise and resubmit stories and screenplays until we run out of semester.

Bob Boston
Iowa State University
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Date:         Sun, 6 Sep 1992 14:07:00 EST
From:         "Rhoda Carroll, Vermont College,
              Montpelier" <RHODA%MUNIN%HUGIN@NORWICH.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Definition question for MBU

Yes, Jim, you're right, critical thinking has SUCH an active (proactive?)
dimension.  I should have thought of that right away.  Thanks. ANybody else?

Rhoda@Norwich.Bitnet
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Date:         Mon, 14 Sep 1992 11:15:20 -0600
From:         RONRON@USU.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Texas

I'm responding to Jim Shimabukuro's fears that a comp/lit split might result
in comp becoming a purely "service" department.  At Utah State, the hottest
majors are the comp majors, both grad and undergrad. That offers me hope
in the future of any purely comp program.  But I'm worried that we still
tend to load "service" and "skills" with negative overtones (If I'm
misreading you, JS, sorry).  The problem  of the split between "skills"
and "knowledge" is addressed quite nicely in both Ryles _The Concept of
Mind_ and Polanyi _Personal Knowledge_.  I feel that the service
part of comp is one of the best things we can do for the world.


  Both
R and P argue that "skill,"  though usually noted as "merely"  is
a fully developed way of knowing.
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Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 1992 15:54:04 -0400
From:         R_CONNORS@UNHH.UNH.EDU
Subject:      Is Bloom Off Rose?

Someone recently suggested that Allan Bloom was dead, in some net message
that I cannot now find.  Is this true?  Did I miss something?  Thanks.

Bob C.
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Date:         Tue, 8 Sep 1992 11:19:16 CDT
From:         Wes <WESCHAP@VMD.CSO.UIUC.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Definition question for MBU

A crucial part of critical thinking, it seems to me, is awareness of context
(or more accurately contexts, plural).  I agree with Marcia Halio's claim
that we should teach "awareness...seeing," and David Schwalm's idea of
helping students avoid buying into the rhetorical situation of a text.  Since
we can't see for students, the best we can do is expose them to a variety of
frames of reference and hope that all of them and none of them stick.
Wes Chapman
Illinois Wesleyan University
weschap@uiucvmd.bitnet
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Date:         Sat, 5 Sep 1992 19:14:00 EST
From:         "Rhoda Carroll, Vermont College,
              Montpelier" <RHODA%MUNIN@NORWICH.BITNET>
Subject:      Definition question for MBU

Hello all, and best wishes for a productive and happy new adademic year. Now
would you all be interested in generating a one-line definition of
critical thinking?  We use the term an awful lot on MBU and I'd like
to know what we think we mean.

Lately, I'm moving toward a definition that says something like
"critical thinking integrates objective and subjective responses
to a question or problem and includes the thinker's awareness of
her or his own thought processes."

Anyone else want to take a shot at this?  (A short shot!)

Best wishes,

Rhoda Carroll
Rhoda@Norwich.Bitnet
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Mon, 7 Sep 1992 10:46:00 EDT
From:         "Composition Digest (Robert Royar,
              Moderator)" <R0MILL01@ULKYVX.BITNET>
Subject:      (Fwd: *C&CD*) Popular and unpopular culture (12)

$undigest -s="Popular and unpopular culture (12)" [.new_news]cmpd6259.mss

Date:         Mon, 07 Sep 1992 06:04:20 EDT
From:         IN%"RobertRoyar@Delphi.com" Robert Royar (C&CD Moderator)
Message-Id:   <1992Sep07.060420.2.Grendel.Lair@Cratylus>
Subject:      Popular and unpopular culture (12)
Reply-to:     IN%"R0MILL01@ULKYVX.LOUISVILLE.EDU"  C&CD
Organization: Cratylus Educational Software

David E. Schwalm <IACDES@ASUACAD.BITNET> in MBU-L%92090702395010@TTUVM1.BITNET
(Mon, 7 Sep 1992 02:39:49) writes:
>Pop culture doesn't know that it's marginalized; it isn't in most
> places. It often is in universities (a small part of the world), and maybe it
> should be. Students live in the world of pop culture. Maybe the U can provide
> a little change of pace or perspective.

Isn't today's pop culture (or a significant portion of it) tomorrow's serious
research?  What was the equivalent of pop culture during the reign of the
Medici?  Was Joseph Conrad a pop writer?  Where do artists such as Warhol fit
in this interpretation?  I look at many school catalogues--job prospects being
what they are today *8^)--and see communication arts (advertising, TV
production, etc.) as major departments of the university.  What could courses
in these areas focus on other than technical expertise and pop culture?

Those of us interested in folklore or descriptive linguistics are locked in
popular culture.  Opera began (and really remained some would say) rooted in
popular culture as did the music of the Romanticists.  The work of Hawthorne
and Melville was once part of the popular tradition.  Some would say Milton
fits the same category (although I'd place him in the sub-category of Science
Fiction for PL, PR, and SA).  Dickens was serialized in pop magazines, roughly
equivalent to Tom Wolf's being serialized in the _Rolling Stone_.  Even Joyce
and Pynchon, whose knotedness may bar mass reading, were/are strongly
influenced by and had/have influenced the pop culture in which they were/are
imbedded.

IMHO both Bloom and Hirsch miss the point because they were unable to peel
away any of the layers in their own retentive psyches far enough to find that
all culture is ultimately SOMEONE's pop culture.

 -- Robert Royar (RobertRoyar@Delphi.com) New York Institute of Technology
    "The average voter doesn't view himself as articulate, so I
    think they can understand the President."
                                                  -- Bob Teeter
                                                     Bush Campaign Manager

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Date:         Tue, 8 Sep 1992 10:00:59 -0600
From:         RONRON@USU.BITNET
Subject:      Re: small library

Hey John Slatin -- Actually, my message wasn't so much about either
MB or Ice T (you are right -- neither of them is very interesting, and
making priority judgements about them is not very productive labor).
What I was really interested in was the quaint academic notion that
one can decry bashing of one sort while indulging in bashing of
one's own sort.  We bleed, weep, and moan about being bashed, but
never pause to consider those whom we are bashing.  And it's not ideas
either, but people. There's a certain arrogance there, coupled with a
certain distance from reality.  I note that you are a liberal family person.
You're half way there. Keep those cards and letters coming.  Ben Shook
(aka Ron Shook)
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