HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: halpin@sw.stratus.com (Jim Halpin)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: RICK FOX!!! ROOLZ (Re: X-man to Boston)
Date: 15 Sep 92 19:52:10 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <1992Sep15.164106.3847@europa.asd.contel.com>, andy@rocky.gte.com (Andrew Busa) writes:
> Screw the stats.  The question here is potential.

	I agree with you! You`ll notice in my post I made several references to
Fox improving in the coming year.I posted stats because somebody asked for them.
Stats aren't the end of discussion when comparing players, but they are the
logical starting point.
> ... You put up stats between
> Fox and Gamble.  First extend them to 48 minutes each and then compare.

	Great. First you say 'Screw the stats', then you want to manipulate them.
You can't have it both ways. Besides, extending Fox's stats to 48 minutes isn`t
going to `help` his more glaring weaknesses, unimpressive shooting percentages,
high turnover and fouling rates!!!

> ....And
> second, try comparing Fox's rookie stats with Gamble's rookie stats.

	Why, I don't care if Fox had a better rookie season than Gamble did. The
Question is who is more effective at the SF position NOW! It pretty obvious
that the answer, based on last seasons performances, is still Gamble. 

> ... Your comparing a veteran to a rookie.

	So I`m supposed to overlook Fox's weakness because he's a rookie??? Get
real!!!!!!

> ....Gamble is as good as he is going to get.
> Fox on the other hand has a much better chance of eventually being the better
> player.

	I agree 100%!!!!!


-- 
!	Jim  Halpin
!	halpin@turkey.sw.stratus.com
!	Marlboro, MA
!
!	Many things in life are not fair. Matt Young having to pitch to
!	Cecil Fielder with the bases loaded, is a perfect example!
From: wardrb@cs.utexas.edu (Richard Byron Ward)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Best players by position
Date: 8 Sep 1992 07:41:43 -0500
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

In article <37800@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> aminkoff@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Tony Minkoff) writes:
|Ok, here's my list, well designed to draw flames:
|
|PG:  Tim Hardaway, Kevin Johnson, Mark Price, John Stockton, Michael
|Adams.
|
|SG:  Michael Jordan, Clyde Drexler, Reggie Miller, Mitch Richmond,
|Jeff Hornacek.
|
I think I'd probably put Reggie Lewis or Hersey Hawkins on this list
instead of Reggie Miller.

|SF:  Chris Mullin, Dominique Wilkins, Charles Barkley, Scottie
|Pippen, Larry Johnson.
|
I hope these are not in order!  Barkley third?  Right.

|PF:  Karl Malone, Larry Nance, Kevin Willis, Horace Grant, Derrick
|Coleman.
|
Horace Grant seems out of place.  Williams, Thorpe and Kemp are all
better according to my book.

|C:   David Robinson, Patrick Ewing, Brad Daugherty, Hakeem Olajuwon,
|Pervis Ellison.
|
|Tony Minkoff

Good list, overall, it just needed some corrections to make it perfect :).

Rick
From: halpin@sw.stratus.com (Jim Halpin)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: BEST POINT GUARD IN NBA
Date: 15 Sep 92 13:36:20 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <1992Sep14.193318.11715@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com>, heiser@fretz.enet.dec.com (Michael A. Heiser) writes:
> 
> Now that Magic is gone, Hardaway and KJ share the throne.  Stockton doesn't
> share the dimensions (assists & defense only) that the other two do.
> --


	Yup, you're right Mike. Stockton's lifetime 50+ FG%, 80+ FT%, and 
32% 3PT% really s*cks! :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)

	Ok, Ok, so he's only good at offense, defense, and passing..... :-)


-- 
!	Jim  Halpin
!	halpin@turkey.sw.stratus.com
!	Marlboro, MA
!
!	Many things in life are not fair. Matt Young having to pitch to
!	Cecil Fielder with the bases loaded, is a perfect example! 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: west@inmet.camb.inmet.com (Brian West)
Subject: Re: Hakeem trade rumors
Organization: Intermetrics Inc, Cambridge MA
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 16:16:39 GMT


(John Carter) writes:

>>3. The Indianapolis Pacers send one of Reggie Miller and Detlef Schrempf,
>>Rik Smits, and "another player" to Houston for Olajuwon and Floyd.
>>
>>Comments:  It would depend a *lot* on who the "another player" was.  I
>>	   wasn't interested in Person, who Indiana wanted to include in
>>	   the package, so his trade to Minnesota was a NOOP as far as I
>>	   was concerned.  I really like both Miller and Schrempf, but am
>>	   not particularly enthralled by shaky-knees Smits.
>>
>>Sticking point: I don't think that the Pacers have the excess young talent
>>	   that they'd need to make me pull the trigger, but a package of
>>	   Pooh Richardson, Detlef Schrempf, and Rik Smits would make me
>>	   think.  I don't think that the Pacers could sell that to their
>>	   fans (both of them :), though.

(Brian E. Saunders) writes:

>I think the cost here is too much.  With Person gone, Miller is the scorer.
>Therefore, he is pretty much untradable at this time.  The Pacers
>management has said all along that they will not get rid of Schrempf, but
>for Akeem, they might have to think that one over a bit.  Smits is OK at
>times, but when he is playing well, the Pacers usually are not.  I don't
>think that a third player would be necessary in this deal.

Can't live without Miller's scoring?  Miller's and Olajuwon's points
per game average are about the same.  What Miller won't give the
Rockets is 12+ rebounds a game or 2-3 blocks a game.  Sounds to me
like Indiana would get the better of this trade by far.

I can't see enough talent on Indiana to make any deal.  The Rockets
need a staring center to replace Olajuwon and since they won't get an
even swap at center (even being Ewing, Robinson, or Daugherty) they
need to fill their other big need, shooting guard.  The Rockets would
minimumly need both Smits and Miller to even consider the trade.  I
personally think that Smits has seen his best years and would not make
the trade worth it for the Rockets.

Needless to say Schrempf plus Smits for Olajuwon is sheer folly. And
thus, likely to be the trade the Rockets settle for.

Brian West
-- 
west@inmet.inmet.com (or west%inmet@uunet.uu.net)
============================================================================
STANDARD DISCLAIMER: No one is responsible. 
My Astral-Projection did this, if you get my drift.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: sead@mundoe.maths.mu.OZ.AU (Sead Mujushi)
Subject: Re: bulls draft info?
Reply-To: sead@mundoe.UUCP (Sead Mujushi)
Organization: Department of Mathematics, University of Melbourne
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 04:46:47 GMT

In article <1992Sep14.225645.26444@cs.brown.edu> cs169061@cs.brown.edu (Michael Kalman) writes:
>        I remember Corey Williams as the third guard at Okl. St.,  playing
>alongside Darwyn Alexander & Sean Sutton.  Williams has incredible quickness;
>he gets lots of steals, is fun to watch on the break, and can dribble 
>around most defenders.  Surprisingly though, I don't think he was a big scorer.
>The Cowboys' physical, halfcourt style of play no doubt had something to do 
>with that, but I'm also not sure he has NBA range on his jumper. 
>
>                                                 Michael K.

Corey Williams had a nickname, something to do with his speed on the court
and his defence, is this the same guy?

	Sead
From: iacurtop@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Iacurto Paul)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: SHOES
Date: 11 Sep 92 15:49:39 GMT
Organization: Universite de Montreal

I am looking for a good pair of basketball shoes for indoor play.

1- $ 100 at most
2 - must be black

    Can anybody help me?
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: jdt29225@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Jazzy J )
Subject: Re: Knicks Blunder
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 19:28:34 GMT

u_nique@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Jerray Wei) writes:

>Curious thing though...if you were the X-man, which team would you want to be
>with?  I'd rather be with the Knicks...because they just completed a very
>strong line-up after getting Blackman.  Parish and McHale aren't getting
>any younger...and if they are good this year, it may be for only one.

	I dunno... it always seemed to me that X was a person who really
	cared a lot about individual accomplishments.  After all, here's a
	guy who averaged about 20 ppg and 9 ppg a season all his years in
	the NBA.  With the Knicks, I believe he posted career lows in every
	category last season.  With Ewing doing most of the scoring, and
	Oakley most of the rebounding -- X is left with lower stats.  I
	would expect his numbers to increase with the Celtics...

	Jazzy J
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  "I am human and I need to be loved,            | Jazzy J                   |
|   just like everybody else does..." - The Smiths| jdt29225@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu | 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: jte@beefheart.cc.columbia.edu (Jeff Eldredge)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Mills rumored to sign offer sheet with Detroit
Date: 15 Sep 92 15:47:37 GMT
Reply-To: jte@beefheart.cc.columbia.edu
Organization: Columbia University


Terry Mills is rumored to be ready to sign an offer sheet with the Pistons  
worth somewhere near $2.2 million a year.  Willis Reed of the Nets has  
said that he would like to try to match the offer, but he has no knowledge  
of its specific terms.  

/jte
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: davem@uvmark.uucp (Dave Meeks)
Subject: Re: Hakeem Olajuwon trade rumors
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 23:16:44 GMT
Organization: Vmark Software, Inc.
Keywords: Hakeem Olajuwon trade

In article <1992Sep14.165737.3919@HQ.Ileaf.COM> raczka@HQ.Ileaf.COM (christopher raczka) writes:
>In article <1992Sep11.224014.18361@leland.Stanford.EDU> terry@leland.Stanford.EDU (Terry Wong) writes:
>> 
>> I wonder if anyone out there has heard any other rumors or can confirm
>> or deny the ones discussed above.
>> 
>
>The Best HAkeem rumor that I have heard to date has the Pistons
>sending Dennis Rodman to Orlando, and the MAGiC sending Stanley Roberts 
>to Houston, with the Rockets sending HAkeem to Detroit


Best only if you are Detroit.  You get rid of an aging very good player 
and get one of the leagues top 3 centers.  Hakeem is almost as good a 
defender, gets a hell of a lot more steals and blocks, rebounds about the
same (not counting Rodmans great year, but on average), and scores a whole
heck of a lot more.  Orlando gets an important piece to it's puzzle, as
Rodman could step in with Shaq and provide quite the defensive threat, and
tons of rebounds.  Houston gets a young, potentially good center that is 
overpaid and unproven.  Houston gets screwed in this deal.  Detroit makes 
out like a bandit.  Rodman for Roberts might be a good trade for both sides
though... Just keep Hakeem out of it, he is worth more than that..
(In other words, is Rodman or Roberts worth a Smits/Miller or Smits/Schrempf
pair, or some of the other deals benig made...)
-- 
David T. Meeks                    ||" We are jigsaw pieces, aligned on the 
VMark Software, Inc.              ||  perimeter edge, 
uvmark!davem@merk.com             ||  interlocked through a missing piece"
davem%uvmark@merk.com             ||" ...This world is totally Fugazi"
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: cmgrawbu@eos.ncsu.edu (CHRISTOPHER M GRAWBURG)
Subject: Re: Michael Cooper 
Originator: cmgrawbu@c00554-1403br.eos.ncsu.edu
Keywords: Jordan, Bird, Michael Cooper
Reply-To: cmgrawbu@eos.ncsu.edu (CHRISTOPHER M GRAWBURG)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 15:30:00 GMT


>>	Alot of players today could learn alot from
>>	Michael Cooper's style of play.  He was not only great on
>>	the court, but was a great role model off it!!!


I figured I'd throw in my two cents. Coop is one of the nicest men I ever
met. I remember a bunchh of guys waiting in line to get his autograph and
instead of most people saying thanx to him----he thanked everybody for
asking for his autograph. 
Something you don't often see.


Chris
From: aminkoff@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Tony Minkoff)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: BEST POINT GUARD IN NBA
Date: 12 Sep 92 07:13:13 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego

In article <1992Sep10.145850.6571@ee.gatech.edu> wung@puttgen.ee.gatech.edu writes:
>Check out the Cav's stats from when Price was out with the knee injury and from after he got back.  

Last year, Phoenix started 3-8, with Tim Perry sitting on the end of
the bench for most of those 11 games.  Then head coach Cotton
Fitzsimmons thought, "Hmm...  Maybe I'll try using Tim Perry."  The
Suns lost the one game after that that Perry missed with an injury
(to Denver), but finished the season 53-29.

Hence, Phoenix without Tim Perry:  3-9.
Phoenix with Tim Perry: 50-20.

Meanwhile, Philly won 35 games with Charles Barkley; they'd have won
almost as many without him.  Wow!  Tim Perry is the much better
forward!  Looks like Philly got a real steal, eh?

It's chemistry, man.  The Cavs need Price, and Price needs the Cavs.
I'm not saying that Price is not a great point guard, but the
difference in records with and without Price does not make him the
best point guard in the league.

>*Peter Wung				Email:wung@ee.gatech.edu	   * 

Tony Minkoff
From: wardrb@cs.utexas.edu (Richard Byron Ward)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Godzilla Vs Barkley
Date: 6 Sep 1992 13:34:04 -0500
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

In article <1992Sep6.132643.23802@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au> s1139457@giaec.cc.monash.edu.au (ERLS (Erland Briggs)) writes:
|
|Hi Guys and Gals,
|    At the moment there is an add on TV promoting this Godzilla Vs Barkley
|    thing on September 9th.
|
|    WHAT THE H*LL IS IT ?????
|
|    I have watched the add a few times and I can't figure it out.
|    The only part that gives me clue is the Nike symbol at the end.
|    This prompts me to believe it is an add for shoes, but I haven't heard
|    anything about it.
|
|    Please enlighten me ... as I feel deprived and empty ... I NEED to know ...

It is a Nike ad with Godzilla vs. Barkley (one-on-one basketball?).
The word is that Industrial Light and Magic (Lucas' special effects
company) is doing it.  It should be awesome.

Rick
From: chico@athena.mit.edu (Thomas A Weston)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: So is Magic coming back or isn't he?
Date: 15 Sep 92 14:15:50 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

It seems to me that its a little presumptious to debate whether or not Magic
Johnson should stay retired.  Its his life.  At the very least he's earned the
right to make the decision himself.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: u_nique@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Jerray Wei)
Subject: Re: BEST POINT GUARD IN NBA
Organization: HAC - Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 14:21:00 GMT

In article <9SEP199214403623@rigel.tamu.edu> burt@rigel.tamu.edu (Burt Juarez) writes:
>>Mark Price
>>-I don't have his stats handy, but he is the heart and then some of the 
>>Cavaliers who almost knocked the Bulls out of the playoffs this year.
>>He is an Unbelievable shooter with incredible quickness and penetrating
>>ability.  I think he should have been on the Olympic team.  Now that 
>>Magic no longer plays (?), I think he is the best PG in the league.
>
>I have to totally agree with you.  Mark Price should have been on the Olympic
>team.  He is an outstanding shooter and a great passer.  He is also a team
>player.  He steps up everyones game by getting the ball to them.  His teams
>record without him was pretty bad.  With MP there was an incredible difference.
>
>He has a great first step.  The Cavs did give a run to the Bulls.  
>Next season watch the Cavs to be on top of the Eastern Conference.  And one 
>of the reasons they'll be on top is Mark Price.  

Come on...Price has plenty of faults, and he didn't play so well in the series
against the Bulls.  I thought Larry Nance was the one who played the best
among the Cavs.  Price seemed to shoot at the most un-opportune times, esp.
in the deciding game.  Last play of the game, bounces the ball off of his
foot.  Unfortunately, this seemed to carry through the series.  His assist to
turnover ratio was abominable, not even 2 to 1 as I recall.

Price does have one of the most talented frontcourts to get the ball too,
even notice how he's never been anywhere near the top in assists?  As for
almost knocking the Bulls out, the Knicks almost knocked the Bulls out.  The
Cavs got beaten pretty cleanly.
From: eoq@vthnw.cvm.msu.edu (Edward Quillen)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Best players by position
Date: 7 Sep 92 23:22:47 GMT
Organization: Veterinary Teaching Hospital, Michigan State Univ.

In article <92251.145833IO20738@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> IO20738@MAINE.MAINE.EDU writes:
>From: IO20738@MAINE.MAINE.EDU
>Subject: Best players by position
>Date: 7 Sep 92 18:58:33 GMT
>
>    Here are my opinions on the five best players at each positions.
>
>PG  1-John Stockton               SG  1-Michael Jordan
>    2-Tim Hardaway                    2-Clyde Drexler
>    3-Kevin Johnson                   3-Mitch Richmond
>    4-Derek Harper                    4-Jeff Hornacek
>    5-Mark Price                      5-Reggie Lewis
>
>                     C  1-David Robinson
>                        2-Patrick Ewing
>                        3-Hakeem Olajuwon
>                        4-Shaquile O'Neille
>                        5-Brad Daugherty
>
> SF  1-Charles Barkley             PF  1-Karl Malone
>     2-Scottie Pippen                  2-Dennis Rodman
>     3-Chris Mullin                    3-Derrick Coleman
>     4-Dominique Wilkins               4-Larry Johnson
>     5-James Worthy                    5-Kevin Willis
>
>     Remember, these are just my opinions.  I made this up of the
>top of my head so there is probably some people I forgot about.  I
>also am not sure if Rodman is a power forward.  He always seems to
>guard SF's on defense.  What do you think?
>
>Brent Sutherland-University of Maine at Orono

I think Joe Dumars belongs in the SG lineup!

Maybe...
SG  1-Michael Jordan (Grudgingly!)
    2-Clyde Drexler
    3-Reggie Lewis
    4-Joe Dumars
    5-Mitch Richmond

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+++ ED (Edward Quillen)   (517) 336-1293      +++
+++ Vet Teaching Hosp.    System Admin.       +++
+++ Email: quillen@cps.msu.edu                +++
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: timlin@spot.Colorado.EDU (Michael Timlin)
Subject: Hornets mascot???
Keywords: Charlotte Hornets mascot
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 22:12:25 GMT

Well now that I have my Hornets hat, my wife wants to know the name of
the Hornet on it.  Please help me!!!  :)

Mike Timlin
timlin@spot.colorado.edu
From: IOR@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Thomas Hyer)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: John Salley
Date: 9 Sep 92 17:09:36 GMT
Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center


  Why does everyone persist in acting as if
John "Rebound? What's that?" Salley was worth
something?  For his height, the man is just
amazingly soft on the boards -- _not_ my idea
of a power forward.

  Miami is about to learn the Houston Lesson:
to win, you need _three_ rebounders on the
floor.

Tom Hyer
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 21:18:44 EDT
From: <JER108@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: BEST POINT GUARD IN NBA
 <1992Sep9.180545.27622@cc.umontreal.ca> <w0q-7GC@engin.umich.edu>
 <1992Sep9.225914.10351@ennews.eas.asu.edu>

>On Point Guards:
>There's 2 types.  The true Point Guard and the flashy scorer/disher/
>speedster.  Stockton and Price are the best pure PG in the league.
>Hardaway and KJ are the best 'beat my man off the dribble then dish
>it when someone rotates over or glide in for a layup'.   I'll take
>the Stockton/Price model.  Of those 2 I'd say Stock get's the nod,
>mainly because of D.  They can both shoot the lights out and see the
>floor well so they're fairly equal on the offensive end, but Stockton
>is probably the better defensive player.  However, if Magic is still
>playing, well enough said...
>--
>Harry Koehnemann
>koehnema@enuxha.eas.asu.edu

As far as taking one "model" over the other, it does depend on the
make up of the team. Utah excells with the true point guard because
they have people to pass to. But I'm sure Philly would prefer the
shooting/driving point guard.
                             John E. Runski
                             <jer108@psuvm>



Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: hariharn@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Ramesh Hariharan)
Subject: Re: Suns
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 12:56:10 GMT

In article <92248.214633IO20738@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> IO20738@MAINE.MAINE.EDU writes:
>The Suns will have these players, as far as I know.
> F Charles Barkley
> F Tom Chambers
> C Mark West
> G Kevin Johnson
> G Dan Marjerle (he is awesome, isn't he!)
>
> F Tim Perry

***********************************************************************

Perry used to start for them last season but is in Philly now. He got
traded with Lang and Hornacek for the awesome Charles. 

***********************************************************************

> F Cedric Ceballos
> G Danny Ainge
> F Kurt Rambis(?-Is this guy still around?)


Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: EIVERSO@cms.cc.wayne.edu
Subject: John Salley -> Miami Heat
Organization: Wayne State University, C&IT
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 01:11:39 GMT

I so sorry to interrupt all the nice threads going on this summer,
but Detroit Pistons forward John Salley has been traded to the Miami Heat
for rookie forward Isaiah Morris (Arkansas) and a first round pick in '93
(unless Miami gets a top-5 pick, in which case Detroit will get a 2nd-round
pick in '93 and a 1st-round pick in '94).
 
In other Pistons news, Dennis Rodman has *still* not announced his retirement
despite what you may have read in r.s.b.pro many months ago.
 
We now return to the many important threads still in progress...
 
--Eric
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: adamw@ecst.csuchico.edu (James Adam Ward)
Subject: X in da Gahden??
Organization: California State University, Chico
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 09:11:27 GMT

	First of all:  X is a man.  Celtics need somebody just like him.  But X in Boston??? just doesnt seem right.  I just can't see X in a Celtic jersey.  Can people please give me your ideas about X in Boston.  I kinda laughed when I saw it on ESPN (the trade).  No doubt Boston needed him.  I guess I just have to get used to it.  Give me your comments about this trade.

thanks
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro