From: mascdb@gdr.bath.ac.uk (C D Burdorf)
Newsgroups: alt.california
Subject: Re: relocation
Date: 16 Nov 92 14:47:00 GMT
Organization: School of Mathematics, University of Bath, UK

In the referenced article, steiny@steiny.com (Don Steiny) writes:
>mascdb@gdr.bath.ac.uk (C D Burdorf) writes:
>


>	OK Chris, I won't ignore you.    Now, don't get me wrong, I never
>voted for a Republican in my life and I am not defending Bush.   However,
>I think that calling him a facist is ignorant.   
>

Well, pusuing policies that have dumped thousands of people
out of work (as Bush has done) isn't exactly humanitarian, is it?
The Willie Horton ads definitely had racist undertones.  The
environment and educational system have been raped and neglected 
under Bush.  The Republican party platform with it's anti-gay
message had some real fascist sentiments as well.  

>
>	It is not 100% clear that one course of action is better or worse 
>in the long run.   At least not at the time.   Later with the hindsight
>of history we may be able to tell.

I think it's pretty obvious that when people are attacking
minorities, favoring the rich, and are anti-environment (as Bush as done)
that they are bad news.  Apparently most Americans agree with me,
becuase they voted the bozo out of office.

>
>	To keep up on world affairs I read: The Economist, The Wall Street
>Journal, The Christian Science Monitor, Mother Jones, Foreign Affairs,
>Scientific American, The SF Chronicle, and several other newspapers and
>magazines.    
>

Why not try reading something more interesting like the Nation or
the Progressive or even the Guardian?

>	For example, there is no question that communism collapsed.    The
>question to me is, "how much did Reagan's policies have to do with it?"  
>"Foreign Affairs" the journal of the Council on Foreign Relations (often
>accussed by the right as being a communist run world government in and of
>itself) has had articles saying that they did, including the Iraq war.  
>The Russians themselves also feel that Star Wars was instrumental in 
>bringing the arms race to an end.    
>

But is the result any better?  World economic slump. An 
unstable former Soviet block, huge budget deficits.  I'm glad
the Soviet Union collapsed. I despised it as much as anybody.
I believe they would have collapsed anyway, but by accerlating
the arms race, we chocked up huge budget deficts and pretty
much slit the throat of the economy.  Just ask Ross Perot.


>
>	Facism was a popular movement.    It was not so much a top-down 
>approach, but rather bottom up.   People were in a recession there was
>a bad economy, they blamed their problems on other races and nationalities.
>

Yeah, sort of like what's happening right now.

>	By blaming so much on Reagan and Bush, you sound like a facist your-
>self.

Sorry, but I think you just jumped over the edge.  You've made
a big jump from a somewhat logical argument into false name
calling.

>Facism was a simple solution that reduced complex issues to simple
>slogans.

You can say the same thing for religion, communism, etc.

>   History proved that the facist's alleged solutions to their
>problems did not work.

Unfortunately, history tends to repeat itself.

>   Likewise, simply deciding that everything Bush
>and Reagan did was terrible and wrong and not bothering to learn is unlikely
>to work in the long run.

Sorry, but I just can't see anything good in a society
where greed is the prime motivator.

>	I am more afraid that YOU will want to round people up and gas them
>that that Bush or Reagan will.

What planet are you from?  You're paranoid.

>    You seem to have your mind made up and 
>do not want to cloud it with information.
>

Oh, so if I attack the right, then I must be crazy.  Grow up!!
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