HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tdelaney@penn.Gwinnett.COM (ted delaney)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: magazines..
Date: 27 Jul 92 10:54:50 GMT

bu850@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Karla M. Alwan) writes:

> Anyone know of any "recovery" magazines around, and where I
> can subscribe to them?  I know there are a few around,
> but I forget what they are, and don't have addresses or
> anything.
> Thanks,

well, there is Changes, the magazine for adult children of alchoholics,
there is its sister publication- Focus, for addictive families/in recovery
there is Psychology Today- generic psyche magazine, there is the magazine for
MPD's (I just forgot the name), there is the Journal of Psychistory, threre is
Psychological Perspectives, VOICES in Action has its newsletter "The Chorus"...

let me know if you need subscription info....
Ted
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: rbn@ralph.rtpnc.epa.gov (Bob Boyd)
Subject: Re: NOT a good time
Organization: UNISYS/Environmental Protection Agency
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 13:09:08 GMT


Todd,

You have a real struggle to deal with.   One thing I can tell you is that
you can't make yourself forgive someone before you are really ready to do
so.  You can say the words before you're ready --- but it won't come from
the inside or feel like it when you've still got internal work to do to
be ready to forgive.

Confrontations are situations that can be very tricky.  I have heard more 
success stories from people whos parent(s) were actively working some kind
of recovery/therapy themselves.  Most of the rest of the stories, especially
where someone tried to do the confrontation on their own and alone with the
other person at the time of the confrontation had a lot of stuff they didn't
like happen.  I'm not saying this is bad -- in fact it may be just what they
needed to experience -- to sort of nail the coffin on their hopes of having
a  positive relationship with the person they confronted.  

Something that helps me a lot in dealing with my family members is making a
real clear decision for myself about what it is that I want from the 
relationship and then taking an inventory of myself to see what I think it
will take for that to happen and what is standing in my way of being able
to have it.  I also am careful to ask what is it in me that is not ready
to have it.  

I'm working on some issues about letting go of some things that have been
with me since I was 2 or 3 -- and I'm noticing that I have a voice that is
telling me that I have to do it for other people -- and I'm quite sure that
making the changes in response to that voice is going to hurt me.  I'm 
working on learning/reassuring myself and getting help to be able to do it
because I want it, because it is time for me, because I choose it.  


I wish you well with making your decision(s).  Whatever you do, I hope you'll
consider getting someone(or more than 1) person you trust to be there with
you if you choose to go for the confrontation.  You don't have to do it
alone. 
--
Bob Boyd                 
rbn@ralph.rtpnc.epa.gov 
Unisys/EPA               

Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: lively@speshr.enet.dec.com
Subject: Massachusetts PAV (People Against Violence) needs assistance...
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: 24 JUL 92 11:26:32 EST



	Request for Donations....  help is needed....

	My niece has recently started up a shelter for battered women
	and children in Massachusetts called People Against Violence 
	(PAV), P.O. Box 756, Hudson, MA 01749.  The Marlboro/Hudson
	Enterprise did a story on PAV, and the article should be in
	today's paper (7/24/92).

	It's servicing a number of towns in the area.  In starting-up they 
	are starting-out with nothing except a lot of people needing help 
	and have only limited resources.

	If you have any questions about what they need, my niece Brigette 
	who is Executive Director of PAV can be reached at 508-562-0762 
	(it's a 24 hour hot-line).  

	However to get tax write-off for money donations it must go though 
	the Sudbury address below 'Victim Advocacy Network', and ask for Gail.

	PAV is in great need of anything at this point (money, diapers,
	baby formula, a freezer, answering machine, printer to make copies,
	a computer, a car, food donations (since they do not have a freezer
	as yet only items that will not spoil for now), office equipment 
	and supplies, file cabinet, clothes/all-sizes, beds, bureaus, curtains, 
	bedding, pillows, dishes, pots/pans, etc, volunteers, client advocates,
	professional counselors, they need everything).  They will send you 
	a receipt for your tax purposes for donations.

	Monetary Donations should go to:		
		Victim Advocacy Network
		615 Boston Post Road
		Sudbury MA  01776
		508-443-9750
		Donation for PAV

		Please write on the check, or in your correspondence
		that the donation is for People Against Violence (PAV).

		If you are donating money and would like it to go for 
		a specific purpose please indciate this also (diapers,
		clothing, rents, etc).  If your company participates 
		in a match gift program this will also help them.

	Donations other than money can go though either Victim Advocacy
	Network or PAV (People Against Violence), however PAV currently
	does not always have the means to pick up donations.  If you need
	things picked try Gail first at Victim Advocacy Network. 

	Thank you in advance for any assistance.
From: tdelaney@penn.Gwinnett.COM (ted delaney)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: confusion/update
Date: 24 Jul 92 17:18:42 GMT

anon-1012@twwells.com (All Me of Us) writes:

> Hi everyone--
> I guess that's all for now.  I'm confused, exhausted, scattered,
> and still here.  Feeling lots of feelings, and trying to let it
> be ok with myself if I don't know what they all are.  Thanks for
> listening.
> 
> Hugs to those who want them,
> 
> All Me of Us 

thanks for posting! it sounds like it was hard to do....good luck with the
divorce precedings- I hope you can keep and establish your new-found barriers..
that can be very hard, and I too, have problems waiting for the machine to pick
up the phone....you feel abandoned somehow NOT answering it or waiting (I HATE
when they hang up!)

good luck
Ted
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: bu850@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Karla M. Alwan)
Subject: Re: PBS documentary "Promise Not To Tell"
Reply-To: bu850@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Karla M. Alwan)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 17:10:39 GMT


In a previous article, bob@reed.edu (Robert Ankeney) says:

>
>
>     Several lawmakers came forth to say they would fight for
>stiff penalties for false accusations of child sexual abuse.  In a
>poll taken by a TV station, 87% of Utahans agreed this would  be a
>good idea.  9% disagreed.  The other 4% were undecided.

Oh great!  that's all we need...  more laws to protect the 
child abusers.  When the fuck are people gonna wake up and start
making laws to protect the abused?!?!?

>     By the end of the program, I felt angry and disheartened.
>There was no investigation of the other neighbors who were accused.
>Despite the huge growth in the number of people speaking out about
>this, people still refuse to hear.  I couldn't help but think there
>was a conspiracy between the judge and police to keep this quiet.
>What would the rest of the world say if that many people in one
>neighborhood of "outstanding" citizens were found to be members of
>a Satanic cult abusing children?

This is really sick, and sad...  ick!


>     I do feel like there is hope, as talk about this problem has
>just recently blossomed.  As has research into the effects and
>therapy.  And in a way, this feels like just one skirmish of the
>many to come in the war of educating people about the realities of
>abuse and finding ways to prevent it.  I only hope to see more
>positive progress in my lifetime.

I hope so too...

*hugs* if you want them...

>
>     Robert
>

-- 
|alwan573@pirates.armstrong.edu   <=== USE THIS ONE!          
|Karla.Alwan@lambada.oit.unc.edu             |
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|bu850@cwns16.ins.cwru.edu                   |
From: scg@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Scott Goehring)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: Thanks Karla
Date: 30 Jul 92 13:33:34 GMT
	<1992Jul29.213330.19469@unislc.uucp>
Reply-To: scg@mentor.cc.purdue.edu
Organization: Society for the Prevention of National Mudding Associations
In-reply-to: erc@unislc.uucp's message of 29 Jul 92 21:33:30 GMT

erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp) writes:

>Being a partner to a survivor is one of the hardest jobs in the known
>universe :)

I can think of one harder: being a partner to a survivor while being a
survivor yourself.  

--
"diplomatically challenged"
		-- PC for "asshole"
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: bu850@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Karla M. Alwan)
Subject: Re: "except at night"
Reply-To: bu850@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Karla M. Alwan)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 20:31:02 GMT


In a previous article, KHEAD@auvm.american.edu () says:

>Karla
>regarding any ideas on what to do, I just want to say I don't
>have any but I agree with you and I'm willing to help if I can.
>As for protecting innocent fathers, I have a hard time swallowing
>that line.  Perhaps I can't see it objectively, but I think the
>chances of people lying about abuse are at most one in one thousand.

I agree completely...

>And 90 percent of those cases, a little investigating could flush
>the truth out.  How many abusers are out there walking the streets
>looking just like anybody?  They are not even worried, so smug
>and confident that they covered their tracks well.  They
>ought to be scared.  They sure ought to be.

absolutely I agree.  The focus should be on getting the guilty 
ones roaming the streets, rather than the VER FEW innocent
ones being convicted.

>

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|Karla.Alwan@lambada.oit.unc.edu             |
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|bu850@cwns16.ins.cwru.edu                   |
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: anon-1166@twwells.com
Subject: [GARYV@BROWNVM.brown.edu: Lost: Bilingual pediatrician...]
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 03:33:17 GMT

Gonna try this ONE MORE TIME.

The following letter was sent to me by a friend.  He has asked me to
distribute it as widely as possible.  If you know of the whereabouts
of Dr. Zeltzer, please let me know.  I can be mailed at
kelly@acca.nmsu.edu, and as soon as I can remember how I'll configure
my anon drop to forward mail.  Gary's account was slated to go away 23
July, so I doubt you'd be able to reach him directly.  I have his USPS
address and will forward any pertinent info to him.

Thanks for any help you can give.

Kelly Lynn Martin

Message follows:

Return-Path: <GARYV@BROWNVM.brown.edu>
Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 92 12:05:31 EDT
From: "Gary O. Van De Walle" <GARYV@BROWNVM.brown.edu>
Subject:      Lost: Bilingual pediatrician...
To: Kelly <kelly@acca.nmsu.edu>

To All:

   Please help me locate Lonnie K. Zeltzer, a former doctor of mine
who was instrumental in helping me rebuild a life.  She was employed @
the Univ. of TX Health Science ctr @ San Antonio in the Department of
Pediatrics in the capacity of Director, Division of Adolescent Medicine in
the late '80s.  At last report, she was in California, possibly at the UCLA
Medical Center *not sure*.  If you find her, kindly email kelly@acca.nmsu.edu
with contact arrangements.  Kelly has permission to give my USPS addr. to her.

                                  Thanks,

                                    Gary V.



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Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: anon-1012@twwells.com (All Me of Us)
Subject: Re: all the time
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com
X-Email-Accepted: yes
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 23:45:27 GMT

Karla asks:
>Anyone else get times where they talk about it (or think
>about it) ALL the time?

Yes.  I think I'm in one of those now, but at the tail end, where
I think about it all a lot, but don't have words to describe what
I've just gone through.  It feels like I'm on the verge of another
breakthrough, but just enough not there yet that it's dark and
confusing.  I still have lots of fear, with anger creeping in, but
not enough light coming in from the corners that I can see the quiet
time that usually follows this place.

My recovery has been a sort of spiral, visiting the same places over
and over again, with a slightly different perspective and a bit more
hope and clarity each time.  I hate it when I recognize one of the
dark times coming on, but at this point, all I can do is go with it
until it's over, knowing for sure that it really *does* pass, and
that I'm usually a bit stronger each time.

It's hard to do this, especially during the times when I feel
obsessed with it all, but it's been worth it so far, and I hope
to be able to continue showing up for whatever comes next.

Hugs to you, and to anyone else who wants one.


All Me of Us



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From: al158305@academ01.mty.itesm.mx (Gustavo Cordova Avila)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: spanking Gregory
Date: 22 Jul 92 03:13:52 GMT


(Just so all of you know, I'm still in school, haven't even got married and
so I don't have any kids. Yet. :)

anon-1055@twwells.com (m&m) writes:

>Hi yaalll,

Hello,

>	By the way, this definitely worked since for past 2 weeks he has not
>put anything dangerous in his mouth!

   I believe that sometimes it really *is* necesary to spank a child,
I don't like it actually, I have a baby sister (I'm 22.5 and she's just
become 8 last friday :) so I've been left to handle her when my parents
leave for somewhere, but it's really more interesting to treat her as
an intelligent person, she has some most interesting opinions.
   Anyway, back to the thread. It's necesary sometimes because children
don't understand the concept of danger, of having their life on the line
(?), of being threatened (sp?), etc. So, it's the mission of the parent
to make sure that the child relates the threatening activity with *pain*,
so that she'll remember about it the next time she wants to do it.
   Little children are more instinctive then us, so it's like training
a pet (ewww... I don't like the analogy, but what the heck), it's
instinctive to remember pain, and to try to avoid any situations which 
involve it.

>Part of me feels really guilty cause we
>broke his trust in that he knew we had decided not to spank him & we changed
>the rules.  

   That's the true origin of the frase "it's going to hurt me more
than it's going to hurt you". At first you (as a kid) don't know why
you mom/dad says that ("hey, it's me that got belted, not him!"), but
when you view it as a trust betrayed, as hurting one that you love,
as innocence lost, then you understand why it hurts the parent also,
because your baby isn't the same baby any more, there's one more rule
to his life.

>Yet neither one of us could think of an alternative.

   Sorry I didn't email, but I much prefer an open discussion of
points of view (without it getting heated of course).

-Gustavo
--
Gustavo Cordova Avila		| Majoring in Electronics & Computer Sciences
al158305@academ01.mty.itesm.mx	| "...I came from the Desert!!" (Sonora)
al158305@[131.178.4.10]		| RangerElf @ IRC (usually in #amiga)
From: anon-1055@twwells.com (m&m)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: Loss
Date: 24 Jul 92 15:44:59 GMT
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com

Hi ed,
	When I read your post my heart jumped into my throat.  God I'm sorry!
Not so much for the person killed or those injured, but for what you are
going through as a result.
	Not much to say.  A big big ehug if you want it.  I hope you have
real people that are there for you as well as the electronic "reality" here.

fare-Well
m&m



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From: Bede_Jarrow@hikssrv.lib.purdue.edu (Lisa)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: thanks m&m
Date: 30 Jul 92 19:36:46 GMT
Reply-To: Bede_Jarrow@hikssrv.lib.purdue.edu (Lisa)

Thanks, m&m, your sharing of how things were with you and SA was very helpful
to me. I can really realte.  It's hard to break codepndent patterns and I think
it will be hard to talk to Shari--but I will.  I need to decide where I want
the boundaries to be.  Right now I'm thinking:  see each other once a week but
limit contact in-between (this is when we're in the same place), mention issues
and talk about them but save really in-depth discussions for therapy--leave
time for fun too!  I want to know what's going on w/ her but not blow by blow
and I want to talk about other things as well.

I will post about what happened in therapy but I did get one postive thing out
of it:  my therapist asked me to tell her what I'd say to Shari if I were
brutally honest.  Then she asked me to reword it so that I was more tactful but
still true to myself.  That was helpfuil for me and I may start doing this in
my journal.

Thanks for lsitening, Lisa
From: bear@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Bear Giles)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: PBS documentary "Promise Not To Tell"
Date: 29 Jul 92 22:41:00 GMT
Organization: National Oceanic & Atmospheric Adminstration / Boulder Labs

In article <1992Jul29.202611.17412@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> bu850@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Karla M. Alwan) writes:
>
>In a previous article, bear@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Bear Giles) says:
>
>>In article <_#nmk3b.boserj@netcom.com> boserj@netcom.com (Jeffrey Boser) writes:
>>>In article <1992Jul28.171039.23690@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> bu850@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Karla M. Alwan) writes:
>>I agree.  There's also been an upswing of women falsely accusing men
>>of rape, incidently.  Thanks to a recent Supreme Court ruling, btw,
>>the fact the accuser steps forward later and recants _may not_ be
>>enough to get an innocent man out of prison, or even get him a new
>>trial!  (Conviction requires establishment of guilt, but release
>>requires "compelling evidence of _innocence_").
>
>I think this is because there are a lot of cases where the accuser gets
>threatend.  Where she is told to go and take back what she said.
>I think this law is to prevent this from happening.  I think
>it is a good thing...

Some of the stories I've heard about recently were _not_ cases where
a woman backed down from intimidation.  I wish I could remember the
details...

BTW, I am not talking about "date rape."  I use quotes because some
"victims rights" group would claim I'm a rapist solely because I've
shared an alcoholic drink with someone I later slept with.  The fact
that we were both completely sober is irrelevant.  (I realize there
is a legitimate problem with acquaintance rape, but screaming rape
in all cases except when the woman rapes the man isn't the solution).

>>I don't think cracking down on false accusation will protect child
>>abusers, however:  if there is _any_ physical evidence it will be
>>impossible to prove false accusation.  But it _will_ stop divorcing
>>parents from trivializing child abuse by using it as a bludgeon.
>
>what divorcing parents do, makes me ill...  But it is by far a small
>percentage
>of the cases.

I don't think it's such a small percentage.  After all, how could
you count the number of men who are told "You will give me custody
and $750 a month or I will accuse you of sexually abusing the kids"
out of court?

Some of my friends (of both sexes) have had absolutely incredible
things happen to them during a divorce -- everything from the spouse
running out and buying $20k of furniture (both are responsible) to
the spouse claiming ownership of a sports car purchased before the
couple even met!  I don't find these claims of false accusations
of child abuse discredible at all.


Bear Giles
bear@fsl.noaa.gov
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: bu850@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Karla M. Alwan)
Subject: Re: PBS documentary "Promise Not To Tell"
Reply-To: bu850@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Karla M. Alwan)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 20:26:11 GMT


In a previous article, bear@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Bear Giles) says:

>In article <_#nmk3b.boserj@netcom.com> boserj@netcom.com (Jeffrey Boser) writes:
>>In article <1992Jul28.171039.23690@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> bu850@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Karla M. Alwan) writes:
>>>>     Several lawmakers came forth to say they would fight for
>>>>stiff penalties for false accusations of child sexual abuse.  In a
>>>>poll taken by a TV station, 87% of Utahans agreed this would  be a
>>>>good idea.  9% disagreed.  The other 4% were undecided.
>>>
>>>Oh great!  that's all we need...  more laws to protect the 
>>>child abusers.  When the fuck are people gonna wake up and start
>>>making laws to protect the abused?!?!?
>>
>>Karla, it is now common practice in this country for women to accuse
>>the fathers of sexual abuse in separation proceedings.  During the
>>hate and pain involved in the separation, these accusations ruin
>>the relationship of the father with his children, often get the women
>>custody, and also hurt the father's relationship with the community.
>
>I agree.  There's also been an upswing of women falsely accusing men
>of rape, incidently.  Thanks to a recent Supreme Court ruling, btw,
>the fact the accuser steps forward later and recants _may not_ be
>enough to get an innocent man out of prison, or even get him a new
>trial!  (Conviction requires establishment of guilt, but release
>requires "compelling evidence of _innocence_").

I think this is because there are a lot of cases where the accuser gets
threatend.  Where she is told to go and take back what she said.
I think this law is to prevent this from happening.  I think
it is a good thing...

>
>I don't think cracking down on false accusation will protect child
>abusers, however:  if there is _any_ physical evidence it will be
>impossible to prove false accusation.  But it _will_ stop divorcing
>parents from trivializing child abuse by using it as a bludgeon.

what divorcing parents do, makes me ill...  But it is by far a small
percentage
of the cases.


>
>
>Bear Giles
>bear@fsl.noaa.gov
>

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From: dmoore@ucsd.edu (David Moore)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Request for FAQ
Date: 30 Jul 92 19:26:54 GMT
Reply-To: dmoore@ucsd.edu
Organization: UCSD Peripheral Nerve Research Group
NNTP-Posting-Host: sdnp1.ucsd.edu


	I was wondering if there was a FAQ for this group, or if not a related
group which someone could email me.  I've read a few hundred messages on here
now, and I think I might be wanting to post something later.  But I'm
curious about some things first.  For example: what is an e-hug?  And, umm
I really don't think I want one, so please don't offer. :<

Thanks,

David

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Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery