From: mahan@TGV.COM (Patrick L. Mahan)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: RE: X11R5 under VAX VMS
Date: 12 Oct 92 22:09:23 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Workstation Div., Supermicro Systems Group, Sony Corporation

Date:    Mon, 12 Oct 92 13:17:10 PDT
Message-Id: <921012131710.21800123@TGV.COM>
X-St-Vmsmail-To: ST%"xpert@expo.lcs.mit.edu"

#
#This seems like an question that should be in the FAQ but it is not.
#
#Has anyone found success getting X11R5 to compile and run under any
#of the recent releases of VAX VMS?  How about VMS/Posix?  According to the
#RELNOTES.TXT file, the release should be able to be built on systems
#that are POSIX.1 compliant.  I haven't determined if the current DEC
#product, POSIX version 1.0, is truely POSIX.1 compliant although I would
#assume so.
#

Just having POSIX for VMS will not complete help out with building X11R5
under VMS.  In building the X11R5 distribution you face the following
problems:

	1) How to support both TCP/IP and DECwindows transport?

	   Digital did this by designing the "Common Transport" model,
	   that allows anyone to write a X windows transport for DECwindows.
	   Even if you don't use this model, and just go with TCP/IP then
	   you still have the added problem that TCP/IP is not fully
	   integrated VMS (for instance, doesn't support FD's).

	2) Missing "System" routines.

	   X Windows was primarily written under Unix.  This means that
	   it makes use of Unix system routines that may not be emulated
	   under VMS.

	3) Integration with existing DECwindows applications.

	   You might want ignore doing this, but at the cost of not having
	   the various DECwindows applications you already are use to having.

	4) At the present I know of no way to adequately build an X11R5 server
	   for VMS.  Digital at present doesnt' document the interface to its
	   graphics hardware vary well.

#
#From the lack of discussions about this, it must be either 1) so easy
#that everyone that has attempted it has not had any problems, 2) so
#hard that noone has even tried or 3) everyone running DECwindows/Motif
#is so happy that they don't even have to look at X11R5 (sorry, I just
#HAD to add that last one...;-).
#
1) It not so easy.  From my experience, the VMS users that read this newsgroup/
mailing list are few and far between.

2) I've tackled part of this problem (ported the X11R4 clients and demos to
VMS).  It took approx. 3 man months to finish (it ain't trivial).

3) I doubt everyone is happy with DECwindows/Motif (since it is X11R4 based).
It is very frustrating to wait for Digital to get X11R5 out the door.

As I understand it, Digital has three groups working on X Windows.  Xlib, Xt and
the client side of the transport is handled by the VMS engineering group.  The
server and server side of the transport is handled by the Workstation group.  
And Motif is handled by the Network Application Group.  So there are plenty of
people working on it.  Also, remember that Digital does try to maintain 
"quality assurance" and thus DECwindows/Motif is subject to this lifecycle as
well.

Patrick L. Mahan

--- TGV Window Washer ------------------------------- Mahan@TGV.COM ---------

Waking a person unnecessarily should not be considered  - Lazarus Long
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