From: atovorni@engr.UVic.CA (Andreas  Tovornik)
Subject: Re: Whining about buying American cars
Reply-To: atovorni@engr.UVic.CA
Organization: University of Victoria, Victoria, BC, Canada
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 19:14:31 GMT

In article 184305@pyramid.pyramid.com, lstowell@pyrnova.mis.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell) writes:
>In article <BxqMzH.51M@acsu.buffalo.edu> v064mcqs@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (NEIL GANDLER) writes:
>>
>> Hold on a minute buddy. You seem to be knocking American cars, making
>>them alot worse then they really are. Yes in the late seventies and 
>>the Eighties, American cars were mostly shit. But Americans #1, have more
>>experience than the japanese in making cars. 2nd, you are forgetting about
>>the engineers. I am an electrical engineering student. All japanese cars
>>are designed in Japan. 
>   
>   From that stupid statement, it's pretty obvious you're NOT a
>   student of anything remotely related to automotive design.
>
>   Care to bet bucks on how many Japanese cars are designed in the
>   US?   
>
>   Even the 240Z was designed elsewhere than Japan....
>
>   Yeesh.  Go burn a cross or some other activity suitable to your
>   jingoistic intellect.
>
>>American cars get the same mileage as Japanese cars, there is little difference.
>    Care to post some CAFE numbers to back up your mis-information?
>
>>American cars are much improved over the years. And quality these days is
>>quite close. And American cars are cheaper and are less expensive to fix.
>   American cars are close to quality?
>
>   Cheaper and less expensive to fix?  
>
>   There are some really fine American cars...but none of them is
>   particularly cheap to fix. And how often a car NEEDS fixing is a
>   factor in service costs.
>
>>      Examples of American accomplishments in the auto industry:
>>		1. GM's Saturn division. A complete sucess. Making the
>>       Japanese wet their pants.
> 
>    More like snoring.  There ARE some American cars that have hurt
>    the Japanese, but Saturn is below the price range the Japanese
>    are moving into for competition.  

Yeah, The Japanese are doing today what Henry II did to the Mustang. The 
'65/'66 Mustang was a nice, decent little sporty car. The early GT 350 was 
a factory racer PAR EXCELLENCE! Look at the PIG that the Mustang became by 
1972. Heavier and clumsier than ever before and not much larger inside. OK, 
the Boss 302 I'd keep if I had one, but any other 'stang built after the
1968 model year is not for me...Including the new ones. Remember the sexy
'67 Cougar? Look at a '74. Gross!

Remember the first Acura Legend? Nice looking car. Look at the new one, Yuck!
Remember the Prelude a couple of design cycles ago? Cute machine. Look at the
new one. It has an ass like a cow!

Saturn:
Funny how the Americans are starting to do to the Japanese what they did to
the Americans twenty years ago...Providing cheap, well-built cars as alter-
natives to expensive cows & pigs.
 
>
>>                2. Chrysler minivans are superior to their japanese counterparts
>
>  One correct.  You win $5.00..... 
>
>>                3. The new Cadillac Northstar Engine. Superior that any 
>>of the v8's japan can ship out.
>
>    Not familiar with Ford's twin-cammer?   Maybe the Northstar is
>    the equal of the Japanese V-8's.  Call us back in 150K miles and
>    see if it hangs together that long.  Some of us would-be Caddy
>    buyers know someone stupid enough to buy an Eldorado.
>    Perpetual maintenance that a Lotus would be proud of.

I'll have a '93 Fleetwood Brougham with a good old Chevy 350! :+)
Thankfully, the TORQUE GODS still make real Cadillacs...

>    BTW, the American V-8's, low tech tho some are, have just about
>    ALWAYS beaten the foreign competition for longevity.  You really
>    have to try to hurt the typical 5 liter Ford or Chev engine.

I knew a guy who took a '69 Montego 289 V8 234000 miles and it was still going
strong without so much as lifting a valve cover! The body rusted out since
the winter salt got to it. He did the same with his '80 Camaro and had to 
replace the timing chain after only 215000 miles. 

This timing chain failure was INEXCUSABLE!!! It was supposed to outlast the 
body!!! I'd be more satisfied with a Hyundai Pony that self destructs after
80000 miles, wouldn't you? Oh, those shitty useless early-eighties American
garbage cans...They SHOULD be illegal. Chevrolet was most irresponsible when
it made that useless, junky 267!!! 

Torque Monger
Newsgroups: rec.autos