From: vojak@icebucket.stortek.com (Bill Vojak)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: "dusting" bad guys, OR  What, me worry?
Date: 6 Sep 92 01:58:36 GMT
Organization: Storage Technology Corp.

From: burens@4ccvw101.scg.hac.com (Mark Burens)

#I don't understand why people are concerned about the legal
#ramifications regarding the type, style, or name of the
#ammunition they choose to defend their and their loved one's
#lives with.  I myself would choose the must effective
#ammunition availiable on the commercial market to defend
#life and limb.  I am more concerned with what Mr. Bad Guy's
#intentions are rathar that any prosecuting attorney and a
#jury of my peer's.  

 Because some people live in state/cities where the DA will
 attempt to screw you over and send you up the river any
 way they can.  Any thing yo can do to limit this without
 compromising your safety is to you benefit.  Even if you
 discount the criminal charges, civil actions will also
 use anything possible against you. And evidence laws in
 civil cases are even more flexible.  Just imagine a jury
 of 6 people, who know nothing about guns, being told that
 you used "RED-WIDOW-BLAMMO-SLAMMO" ammo, vs being told that
 you use "9BP, just like the cops do".  

#Besides, if your worried
#about the after affects of "dusting" a bad guy then you
#should'nt even own a gun in the first place.

 Bullshit! You better worry about the effects of "dusting"
 a bad guy. Can you say jail time, goodbye house, car, job,
 retirement, family, friends, bank account?  The police aren't
 going to come over, pat you on the back, pin a medal on you
 and say "good boy".  I will do every thing that I possibly
 can to avoid shooting someone, WITHOUT adding greater risk
 to myself or family.  I'd rather lock myself in the bedroom
 and wait for the cops while the guy makes off with my tv &
 vcr, than to just blow them away.  I'd rather let the guy
 run when he sees that I'm armed than to put a bullet in his
 back to stop him.  Each person should determine what the
 line is for use of deadly force.  For me it's grevious
 physical harm or threat of death.  If the person attempts 
 entry into the bedroom after I've locked the door & called the
 cops, that person will be shot.  If I hear a noise in the
 other room, enter and find someone assaulting my wife, or
 multiple intruders burst through the fron door, or if a
 intruder is armed with weapon, I will shoot.

 Colorado law is flexible enough to allows you to use deadly force 
 in your home, against intruders, under almost all conditions. 

COLORADO "MAKE-MY-DAY" STATUTE:
----
18-1-704.5  Use of deadly force against intruders. 

(1) The general assembly hereby recognizes that the citizens of Colorado have
a right to expect absolute saftety within their own homes.

(2) Nothwithstanding the provisions of section 18-1-704, [general self
defense provisions, see summary below], any occupant of a dwelling is 
justified in using any degree of physical force, including deadly physical 
force, against another person when that other person has made an unlawful 
entry into the dwelling, and when the occupant has a reasonable belief 
that such other person has committed a crime in the dwelling in addition 
to the uninvited entry, or is committing or intends to commit a crime 
against a person or property in addition to the uninvited entry, and 
when the occupant reasonably believes that such other person might use 
physical force, no matter how slight, against any occupant.

(3) Any occupant of a dwelling using physical force, including deadly physical 
force, in accordance with the provisions of subsection (2) of this section
shall be immune from criminal prosecution for the use of such force.

(4) Any occupant of a dwelling using physical force, including deadly physical
force, in accordance with the provisions of subsection (2) of this section
shall be immune from any civil liability for injuries or death resulting from
the use of such force.
----

 If your life, or that of your family is endangered, and
 there is not reasonable way out, drawing and possibly firing
 you gun may be the only alternative.  Yes I'm glad I live in
 a state like Colorado, still, killing someone is serious. 
 and 90+% of the states don't afford you the immunity like CO & 
 AZ do.  Even if you are not charged or sued in civil court, it can 
 still have severe implications on the rest of your life. 
 People will always remember you as that guy who murdered someone.
 Yes I said murdered, since many people won't make much distinction
 between justifiable self defense, and murder.

 This is not a game. You better be damn sure that what you are
 doing is the correct thing.  Even in your own home. Else you
 may have the entre rest of your life to think about what you
 could have done, as you pace you 10'X10' cell.

 If your NOT worried about the after effects of "dusting" a bad 
 guy then you shouldn't even own a gun in the first place.

 BYW: I read a review of Black Talon where the reviewer killed
 a 250lb ram with 1 shot from a 9mm.  It broke BOTH shoulders
 in the ram.  I expect that this ammo may suffer from the same
 problem a hydra-shok .357.  Too MUCH penetration for "home"
 use.

                                Bill Vojak
                                Bill_Vojak@stortek.com
                                NRA, ILA, CFC

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