From: young@alw.nih.gov
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: Abuse/Animal Rights
Date: 12 Nov 92 12:30:54 GMT
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

In article <dave.721426871@isye.gatech.edu> you write:
|> saavik@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Marla Belzowski (K-9's)) writes:
|> .
|> .
|> stuff deleted
|> .
|> .
|> >>Let me hear your thoughts.  Let me answer your questions.
|> >>
|> >>Dr. Mike, D.V.M.
|> >>
|> >Let me hear you take this to alt.talk.politics.animal.  It does not
|> >need to be posted here, as it will only create a HUGE flame war!
|> 
|> I disagree.  I think some of this should be discussed here.  Not all of
|> us, especially those of us at politically conservative universities,
|> have access to the alt.* newsgroups.
|> 
|> While I don't care to discuss the merits of drug testing (I approve for
|> pharmaceuticals, but disapprove for cosmetics) in this group, I think
|> the rights of animals (dogs in particular) are an important issue for
|> r.p.d to discuss.
|> 
|> Dr. Mike says dogs have no rights.  I have a real problem with this.
|> Why do we humans think we can decide what's best for all the other
|> living beings on this earth?  Why do we think that we know what is best
|> for the planet when many of us can seem to manage our own personal
|> lives?  Why is it considered criminal to leave a child unattended but
|> far many more people (if you can call them human) have no qualms about
|> abandoning animals or mistreating them.
|> 
|> Humans seem to think that their 'intelligence' makes them superior to
|> all other forms of life and allows their needs and rights to be
|> satisfied without regard for other animals, the environment, societies,
|> etc.  I prefer to think that with our intelligence comes the
|> responsibility to evaluate and regulate our actions so as to better the
|> life for everyone as a whole, not just for our own race.
|> 
|> Just my ramblings....
|> 
|> -dave
|> 
|> 
|> 
|> 
|> 
I really wanted to stay out of this one.

It's a very easy matter to point your newsreader at one of the more
liberal universities to read alt. groups if you have the stomach for
it.

Every discussion of "animal rights" that I have seen centers around
human beings mistreating animals in some way.  There are certainly
different factions in the argument and much of the discussion centers
around the definition of mistreatment.  However, the argument always
comes back to a human being mistreating an animal and ways to stop this.
So, we have a two sided argument.  One side is practical and one side
of the argument is emotional (and prone to ranting a raving).

To addres the practical side of the argument:
With rights come responsibilities.  Something we'd rather forget but
in our society because we have rights, we are not free to behave as
we wish; we must honor the rights of others.  When we don't do this,
our rights are taken away (jail).  It is difficult to explain this to
our four-legged friends at home, let alone those who run free.
If you wan't to relieve the suffering
of animals who are mistreated by certain undesireables within our
society, add to our society's list of responsibilities.  Animals don't
have rights, people (or human animals) have responsibilities.  Let's
face it, it's very unlikely that a special interest will get the Bill
of Rights amended to include our four-legged friends.  It's rather 
unlikely that our four-legged friends would be able to obey the rules
that we've set for ourselves and them.  

Now the reason that this discussion should be moved to another group
(talk.politics.animals) is that discussions like this will sooner
or later be reduced to an argument over the definition of abuse.  
There are people out there who, when they find out that a hunting test
involves only AKC registered, un-neutered dogs, and the shooting of
pen-reared game birds will throw a fit at the very mention of the 
subject.  Those discussions don't belong here.  This is a group of 
"mutt-lovers" and "purebreed-snobs,"  hunters and non-hunters, 
show-obedience-field trial enthusiasts and shelter workers.  We all
have in common our love of dogs and that's as far as we need to
scratch the surface. 
___________	
	jy
	young@heart.dcrt.nih.gov