HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jonathan@chemeng.ed.ac.uk (Jonathan Dempsey)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Irish Exchange
Date: 19 Nov 92 13:28:22 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University Chemical Engineering Department


Talking to an Irish friend I discovered that on going back to ireland
from Scotland it cost him 68 pounds sterling to get 60 punt. This is
compared with an exchange last summer of 1 sterling to 1.10 punt. Taking
into consideration that everything in Ireland is 10% more expensive AT
LEAST the Irish economy must be better than the UKs which it isnt or
currency speculators do not know their arse from their elbow. Seemingly
the Dail have a law stopping currency speculators and basically told
them to stop their antisocial behaviour or they would be nicked. This
must really affect Irish industry making it very uncompetitive Now
with fast computer links City of london dicheads can rival governments
and I think punitive legislation shoul be drawn up as follows.
Accountant (all not just criminal ones)  Fifty Lashes
Economist  (all not just criminal ones) One Hundred Lashes
Chief Accountant or Economist Execution
Currency Speculators Mutilation followed by execution
Banks Asset Seizure
etc
If anyone has any further suggestions please let me know
Xref: sparky soc.culture.british:16097 soc.culture.canada:8633 sci.research.careers:1463
From: godfrey@sscvx1.ssc.gov (LAURENCE GODFREY)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,soc.culture.canada,sci.research.careers
Subject: Re: Canadian free speech in action
Date: 19 Nov 92 00:17:00 GMT
Organization: Superconducting Super Collider Laboratory
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1

In article <Bxxr67.Lws@DMI.USherb.CA>, turgd00@DMI.USherb.CA (DAVID TURGEON)     writes...
>In article <18NOV199212445009@sscvx1.ssc.gov> godfrey@sscvx1.ssc.gov (LAURENCE GODFREY) writes:
>BLABLABLA>(...)
>It seems that rather than endure my complaints about
>>their awful and intensely boring country, ...
> 
> 
>EXXXCUSE me... If you're not happy about it, change newsgroups....
> 
> 
>>So much for free speech in God's own country!  Anway, their attempt has failed
>                            _:_ 
>                  Sorry Mr. GODfrey, didn't think you where so pretencious

It's pretentious chum, and you're using it out of context in addition to
spelling it wrongly.
> 
> 
>>and if I were to stop using the vax in question there are many other places
>>from which I can access usenet.
> 
>I'm sure you can SUCKUP to someone somewhere ...
> 
Is this level of maturity characteristic of Canadian net users?  
>>

Laurence
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: kevinh@hslrswi.hasler.ascom.ch (kevinh)
Subject: Clive's bike
Originator: kevinh@nath
Reply-To: kevinh@hslrswi.hasler.ascom.ch
Organization: Ascom Hasler AG
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 09:41:03 GMT


About a year ago there was an article on TV about an electric bike that
Sir Clive Sinclair had developed (resembling a Mini-Moulton bicycle) and 
was selling them for about 500 quid. Has anybody seen them for sale?? 

kevinh@hasler.ascom.ch
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,alt.folklore.urban,misc.legal
From: dj@ekcolor.ssd.kodak.com (Dave Jones)
Subject: Re: Line item veto (was: Re: The amazing disappearing British Constitution)
Organization: Vonnegut Tent Rentals, Inc.
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 16:58:48 GMT

Steven Bellovin (smb@ulysses.att.com) wrote:
> In article <1992Nov14.005913.11173@news.columbia.edu>, lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner) writes:
> > Does anyone have a "feel" for just how many people in the US heard Reagan
> > and later Bush ask for line-item veto, but really had no idea what this
> > means in non-Washington-jargonese?  (I am alluding to the notion that for
> > certain people, all gripes come to bear on the president as an icon, and
> > perhaps not to blame Congress, where the laws originate.)
> > 
> > If "politics as usual" still applies, will Clinton also object to the lack
> > of a line-item veto?  (Since now the President, and the majority of both
> > houses are all in the same party?)
> 
> According to the AP, Clinton is pushing for a line-item veto.  As with
> Reagan and Bush's request, this would apply only to spending bills.
> Contrary to the original poster's assertion, it has nothing to do with
> attaching non-germane amendments to bills.
> 
The state of New York gives the governor this kind of veto.  Unfortunately,
it seems to do little to help the budget process, if recent experience is
anything to go by.  In fact, it may make things worse, as the budgeting
process now seems to consist of secret negotiations between the governor and
the leaders of the two Legislature houses, followed by acrimonious debate
as they try to sell the result to the rest of their members.  The state
Constitution requires a balanced budget, but the main focus of effort seems
to be to define 'budget' in a way that lets them spend more than they take
in.  You've also got multiple quangos available to "lend" money to the State
when the need arises.

Veto, line item veto, word veto, balanced-budget-amendments: nice ideas, but
worthless when the Legislature and the Executive decide to put one over on
each other, and on the public at large.

--
||I dreamed I met a Yadallean          |(parody in progress, apologies to
||A most confusing man....             | Tim Rice & Andrew Lloyd Webber)
||------------------------------------------------------------------------
||Dave Jones (dj@ekcolor.ssd.kodak.com)|Eastman Kodak Co. Rochester, NY  |
From: proberts@informix.com (Paul Roberts)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: English English
Date: 16 Nov 92 17:33:23 GMT
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.

In article <1992Nov16.172832.3897@informix.com> proberts@informix.com (Paul Roberts) writes:
>Laurence, is there anything at all that you don't dislike? Anything?
>
>Paul
>

By the way, this is a purely rhetorical question; I really don't give 
a damn. Let's see, I think "/: *godfrey@sscvx1/h:j" is what I need at
this point.

Paul  
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: prwr001@netcom.com (Robert W. Row)
Subject: What's the name of the Cambridge bookshop?
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 03:43:46 GMT

I am trying to remember the name of the big bookshop
in Cambridge in England.  I had an account there in
the early 1970s but neither I nor an English friend 
currently working over here who also bought books there
can remember its name.  One of those memory lapses that
gradually drives you mad.
Anyone can help, please?
Thanks
Rick Row
From: mike@fionn.lbl.gov (Michael Helm)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Accent and Dialect, the politics there
Date: 22 Nov 1992 10:08:50 GMT
Organization: N.I.C.E.
Reply-To: mike@fionn.lbl.gov (Michael Helm)
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.128.60

Alasdair Grant writes:
>Chris Cooke writes:
>>disputes that Scots, ne Inglis, is an Anglo-Saxon language.  What is in
>>dispute is whether it's a branch of modern English or whether it's
>>independently descended from old Anglo-Saxon "English", a rather different

>So your argument rests entirely on the date at which the Scottish dialects
>(which you treat as a single entity) somehow 'separated' from the English
>dialects?  I.e. that in 1300 the languages spoken in Devonshire and
>Northumbria were the same, while that spoken in Edinburgh was different?
>What date do you think this separation took place?

They were _always_ separate.  If you go & look at available Old &
Middle English texts, people of each area of England wrote very
different brands of their language.  (There are a lot of holes in the
record, tho.)  English was widely attested to be very fragmented in
Tudor times, people not many miles apart in origin couldn't understand
each other.  In 1300 the folks in Devonshire would have probably
switched to Latin or French if they had to talk to folks in
Northumbria.  English has been converging since those days.  What 
has been happening in Scotland, I am not sure of.

>By the way, do you claim that American and Jamaican English are not dialects
>of English, but languages in their own right?

Are you acquainted with West Indies speech?  Most of us need subtitles
to understand it when it's in the movies.  It took me months to get
to where I could understand it when I lived in the Gulf area.  As
far as I'm concerned that's another language.  I'm personally more
sure of that than I am that Scots is a separate language.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: dj@ekcolor.ssd.kodak.com (Dave Jones)
Subject: Re: fish and chips
Organization: Vonnegut Tent Rentals, Inc.
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]
Distribution: soc
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 14:34:19 GMT

barry ross (barry.ross@canrem.com) wrote:
> 
> I  understand that true fish and chips in England use  Dog  fish, 
> not Halibut or Haddock or Cod like they do in Canada. <Pity>
> 
> Is  there any truth to the above statement?  I guess it  is  just 
> what you get use too.
> ---
As others have noted, Cod is the default in the UK, with Haddock optional
and dogfish included under a different name.

If Haddock is the default in the North, then it wasn't my part of the
region (North Yorkshire).

However, there's a cultural difference at work here that neither side
may be aware of: in the US, and probably Canada, Haddock is cheap and Cod
is more expensive.  The dichotomy isn't of the same magnitude as Mackerel
(despised in US, expensive in UK) but it exists.  Thus Cod is considered
a better fish because it's expensive in the US, while Haddock is considered
better in the UK because it's more expensive there.

--
||I dreamed I met a Yadallean          |(parody in progress, apologies to
||A most confusing man....             | Tim Rice & Andrew Lloyd Webber)
||------------------------------------------------------------------------
||Dave Jones (dj@ekcolor.ssd.kodak.com)|Eastman Kodak Co. Rochester, NY  |
From: firth@sei.cmu.edu (Robert Firth)
Subject: Re: Domestication of poison ivy
Organization: Software Engineering Institute
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 13:18:07 GMT

In article <lgljukINNr97@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> falk@peregrine.Sun.COM (Ed Falk) writes:

>If you import noxious non-natives; it's almost a certainty that the
>damage will spread.  See kudzu in the south, killer bees in South
>America, rabbits in Australia, snails in Northern CA for examples.

Or, for that matter, humans anywhere outside the Rift Valley
From: mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: The vagaries of electoral politics (was Re: Rule Britannia)
Date: 16 Nov 92 14:59:53 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept, QMW, University of London, UK.

From: gdb15@grebe.cl.cam.ac.uk (Guy Barry)
>Yes, Labour do have some pretty stupid election tactics, but
>fortunately the voters are usually more intelligent; if they want to
>get rid of a Tory MP and see that the LibDems have a chance of
>defeating him/her, then they'll vote LibDem (as happened in Bath, for
>instance).  However, there just aren't that many seats in which the
>LibDems are a close enough second for this to happen very often.  Most
>seats where the LibDems are second are rock-solid true-blue Tory
>heartlands, and quite honestly it doesn't matter whether you vote for
>the LibDems, Labour or the Monster Raving Loony Party.

Ah yes, like Sutton, which due to the notoriety of the
Conservative candidate received quite a lot of coverage in
press general election coverage, always accompanied by comments
about how this woman had been chosen as candidate for this
rock-solid Tory seat.

The fact that the council has been controlled by the Lib Dems
since 1990, and that in local elections more votes were cast
for Lib Dems in it than for Tories somehow never got mentioned.
Same goes for a good many other "safe" Tory seats. A large part
of Liberal Democrat general election work in these seats
involves actually explaining to people that the Lib Dems *do*
have a chance and that it is worthwhile going out and voting
for them. Unfortunately, much of the media coverage, including
that on the supposedly neutral BBC, is dedicated to saying the
opposite. It really is soul-destroying to see elections lost in
this sort of seat because people sit at home saying "I hate the
Tories but it's not worth voting around here", or vote Labour
saying "I like the LibDems better, but they don't stand a
chance".

The supposedly LibDem-friendly Guardian ran a long
article in its environment section on a number of Green
initiatives instituted by the LibDems in Sutton. Of course,
they failed to mention the political orientation of the
council. You can be sure that when they're helping spread a
Labour smear about Tower Hamlets they'll be very careful to
mention that it's Liberal Democrat controlled. The Daily Mail
awarded Sutton "Green Borough of the year", again conveniently
forgetting to mention who controls it.

Matthew Huntbach
From: ray@philmtl.philips.ca (Ray Dunn)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Fish and chips
Date: 19 Nov 92 23:26:08 GMT
Organization: Not Philips.

In refd article, mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach) writes:
>From: tony@nexus.yorku.ca (Anthony Wallis)
>>ps. Did yer ge? any mal? vinegar fer yer chips !
>>              ^        ^
>>              glo??al stops
>
>"Malt" should be pronounced "mow?" - the l is dark.

In which particular accent?  Or are we back to the RP discussion?

>In any case, it's not malt vinegar that's put on chips, but
>"non-brewed condiment" for that real chip-shop taste.

Ah, but it's _put into_ malt vinegar bottles to disguise its vintage, in
the same way that el-cheapo brown sauce is served in HP bottles.
-- 
Ray Dunn at home        |  Beaconsfield, Quebec  |  Phone: (514) 630 3749
ray@philmtl.philips.ca  |  dunn@cam.org          |  uunet!sobeco!philmtl!ray
From: cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Chris Cooke)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Rule Britannia
Date: 16 Nov 92 12:22:34 GMT
	<1duhc5INN3k@fido.asd.sgi.com> <1992Nov13.102620.14167@dcs.qmw.ac.uk>
	<1e18u9INN6b@fido.asd.sgi.com>
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Edinburgh, Scotland

In article <1e18u9INN6b@fido.asd.sgi.com> livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:

   Sure thing.   This whole discussion started when I observed that
   Adenauer was the last German Chancellor - I think - to get a clear
   majority.   I don't want to ban coalitions.   I just wonder if
   we want them as a permanent state of affairs.

I think that in the long term it's a lot better for the country if the
composition of the government vaguely reflects the majority opinion of the
voters - so permanent coalitions would be better than the present system,
yes.
--
	-- Chris. 	cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk   (on Janet, cc@uk.ac.ed.dcs)
From: skaamjm@ucl.ac.uk (Matthew Moore)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Giant Hogweed
Date: 16 Nov 92 17:57:48 GMT
Organization: Bloomsbury Computing Consortium

>>
>>>the "giant hogweed" from America (South, I think) for decor.....
>>>...is a large umbelliferous plant up to 8 feet tall and of alien
>>

>>>... The sap has a synergic effect with UV light, raising
>>>painful weals on the skin, and apparently in some cases interfering
>>>with cardiac functions...
>>
>>Is it really that dangerous?  Should I dig up the seedlings I have been
>>nurturing?

>We occasionally get warnings on the radio in the summertime if there are
>outbreaks of Giant Hogweed (there is a Genesis song inspired by the plan on
>an early album (Trick of the Tail?)), so it shouldn't be treated lightly.

the album was Nursery Cryme, and the song included 'long ago, in the
Russian hills...'.

Giant Hogweed (I think its Heracleum sp) does not so much 'outbreak'
as colonise along waterways, and is to be found extensively in
southern England.  Like other introduced species, it does well in the
absence of its usual enemies (whatever they are).
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,alt.folklore.urban
From: sp@osf.org (Simon Patience)
Subject: Re: Anglican vs C of E
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 11:28:04 GMT

In article <1dui5cINN3k@fido.asd.sgi.com>, livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:
> Remember that your claim is that there is not "a scrap of
> evidence", that there should be "_some_ relgious representation"
> so you've set a pretty high standard for yourself.
> 
> Not "a scrap of evidence" for even "some" representation.   Phew.

Actually I think the onus is on you. I did not claim that I had any
evidence that people don't want it but that is not the point. It is to you
to show that there is indeed some evidence that the removal of
religious representation would cause consternation to a significant
number of people, and the sole voice of someone who doesn't live in the 
same continent hardly counts.

Simon.

-- 
  Simon Patience
  Open Software Foundation			Phone: +33-76-63-48-72
  Research Institute				FAX:   +33-76-51-05-32
  2 Avenue De Vignate				Email: sp@gr.osf.org
  38610 Gieres, France				       uunet!gr.osf.org!sp
From: ag129@cus.cam.ac.uk (Alasdair Grant)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Accent and Dialect, the politics there
Date: 15 Nov 92 18:14:16 GMT
Organization: U of Cambridge, England

In article <CC.92Nov12174651@arran.dcs.ed.ac.uk> cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Chris Cooke) writes:
>In article <1992Nov11.135623.21487@sei.cmu.edu> firth@sei.cmu.edu (Robert Firth) writes:
>   How many times do we have to try to get the point across?  Yes, John
>   Keats spoke Cockney dialect, and Burns spoke Scots dialect.  The
>   difference remains: that one is revered for the poems he wrote, and
>   the other for the dialect he wrote them in.
>
>Please stop repeating this ridiculous lie, it's getting tedious to have to
>keep correcting it.  Once again, some of us do like Burns' poetry,
>astonishing as it may be to you.

Perhaps it would help if you gave some examples of Burns' poetry that
you consider (in your own judgement) to be on a par with Keats'.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: kers0205@elan.glassboro.edu (CHUCK KERSHENBLATT)
Subject: The Grapes
Keywords: The Grapes
Organization: Rowan College of New Jersey
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 02:54:36 GMT

I visited an old friend who lives on Commercial rd in Limehouse, and we 
often went to The Grapes. Anyone have some information about this pub on the 
river. Dickens ... stayed there, lived there? Does anyone know the Five 
Bells pub in Limehouse, also?
Xref: sparky soc.culture.british:16239 soc.culture.canada:8721 sci.research.careers:1518
From: gpalo@digi.lonestar.org (Gerry Palo)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,soc.culture.canada,sci.research.careers
Subject: Re: Canadian free speech in action
Date: 20 Nov 92 23:05:32 GMT
Organization: DSC Communications Corp, Plano, TX

In article <anne.722191000@menaik> anne@cs.UAlberta.CA (Anne J.R. Nield) writes:
>mcdonald@cs.sfu.ca (Ken Mcdonald) writes:
>
>
>
>>Question:  Do others agree with this?  In my experience, the typical academic
>>is a very self-centred, selfish, and narrow-minded person, with little
>>real adherence to any strong code of ethics.  There are, luckily, exceptions,
>>but I feel that in general, the people (academics) who are effectively
>>running the universities are amongst the worst suited for the job, because
>>their overriding self-interest places them only a notch or two above
>>used-car salesmen, and WAY below the people I feel comfortable with, in
>>terms of trustworthiness.  Comments?
>
>
>Reminds me of a quote I once saw and fell in love with:
>
>"Trying to control academics is like trying to herd cats!"
>
>Anne

I think one reason why academics are the way they are is that there
is no incentive to cooperation or teamwork in the university.  It is
always my position, my tenure, my promotion, my research, my publication,
etc.  On the way there is my grade, my credit hours, my degree, my
etc... The whole structure of the university is dedicated mostly to
the individual's own striving for himself.  Not that it shouldn't be,
but I think that has a lot to do with the character professional academics
often develop.

Curiously, in the business world, especially in computer technology, it
is the other way around.  Although we are all supposed to be in it for
the personal rewards, clawing our way to the top etc., the intrinsic
nature of what we do encourages us to cooperate -- or fail.  It is 
interesting to see how new graduates have to adjust their whole value
system when they come onboard.  Not that there isn't a lot of self-
serving and backstabbing in this world too.  One thing for sure, though,
is that the typical recent graduate has no idea of what a large devel-
opment project is about, how it is done, or how vast it can be.  They
don't or can't simulate that in undergraduate courses, since any team
effort is subject to each student finger pointing at the others if
the project fails.  And rightly so, for if my fellow team member screws
up but I do my job, why should I get a bad grade for his failure?  Of
course people do this in "the real world" too, but the end objective
is not a grade, or even a raise, but the end product itself, which
can only succeed if we cooperate in spite of our personal difficulties.

(Now I should say that I know a lot of academics who are not that way at
all, including my parents-in-law, both of whom are professors.)

I understand that the British universities are all this and more. Is
this true or not?

Gerry Palo (73237.2006@compuserve.com)
From: ambidge@ecf.toronto.edu (Chris Ambidge)
Subject: Re: In your school?
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 16:11:23 GMT

Laurence Godfre recently wrote:
   [lots of stuff deleted]
      to which a Canadian responded....
>>: > 
>>: >Hell hath no fury like a PhD with a bruised ego.
>>: > 
     [Laurence replied]

>>: Wrong - my ego is intact.  My fury is the result of injustice.  Hard for
>>: you to grasp that, huh?
>> 
>>Frankly, neither I nor anyone else really gives a toss.
>> 

     [and Laurence countered]

>Exactly as I claimed - you canadians are simply all arseholes
>
>Laurencxe
>

I know that scientists are supposed to  look at Nature and see if they
can observe trends.  However, I would say that describing 26+ million
people "all arseholes" something of an overgeneralisation.

Would somebody please give  this gentleman (and I use the term loosely)
a lesson  on netiquette?  He is being out-and-out rude.  He obviously
has had unfortunate experiences from his time in Ottawa, and has an 
aversion to things Canadian.  I can understand that.  However, when I
am reading a newsgroup, I neither need nor deserve to be called "an
arsehole" just because I choose to live in Canada.

Dr Godfrey, please cease your  tirades against all-things-Canadian.

Thank  you.

Chris (trying to be patient in the face of unprovoked ad-hominem insults)

-- 
Chris Ambidge / ambidge@ecf.toronto.edu / ambidge@ecf.utoronto.ca  
   chemical engineering / university of toronto
   200 college st / toronto ON / M5S 1A4 // 416 978 3106