From: uphrrmk@Msu.oscs.montana.edu
Subject: Re: Who are we kidding?
Reply-To: uphrrmk@Msu.oscs.montana.edu
Organization: Montana State University
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 20:00:14 GMT


In article <1992Nov19.045157.9681@news2.cis.umn.edu>, hart0037@student.tc.umn.edu () writes:
>In article <2B0A8245.16232@news.service.uci.edu> cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu
>(Janis Maria Cortese) writes: 
>
>>I ran up against the truth today that we have an estimated 30 years or
>>less to change our ways before the damage we do becomes irreparable.
>
>    Ouch!  What happened to slam you into this?  I'm sorry :-(

  So am I . Hi Janis, It's Death.(No pun intended, truly. it's just my handle.)
>
>>If this is the denial game we're all going to play with each other,
>>let's just give it up now, okay? 
>
>    Kind of funny that there have been recent postings about the 5 stages
>of grief.  Sounds like those could apply to seeing the death of a species,
>or a community, or a planet too....
>

Actually, our planet is a pretty hardy thing, all things considered.
We're not. 
>
>>It's finished, people.  We're just not going to change in thirty years,
>>face up to it.  We're not the first evolutionary cul-de-sac that's ever
>>come down the pike.  The dice rolled, and we came out, and it just
>>didn't work out.  If we had 150 years or 200, maybe.  But we are NOT
>>GOING TO CHANGE IN TIME.  Think about it.  Do you honestly think that
>>today's 10-year olds are going to suddenly have this mass jump in
>>consciousness despite being reared by today's 40-year olds and rise up
>>as one and go back to living in thatched-roof houses or at least give up
>>their Nintendos long enough to find out what's happening?
>
>   I agree that things seem pretty desperate, and I often feel like I'm
>living through the dying process of the human species and life as we know
>it (why do I always get a visual image of a cartoon character carrying a
>sign saying "The world is doomed" when I think of this topic?).  I think
>the analogy of the five stages of grief is a good one--at least for what I
>go through.  Is that what you are going through?

I think it's what everyone of the past generation has been going through,
as well as their children.
>
>   Who REALLY knows when our species will implode?  Will it be a quick
>death or a long and drawn out one?  I do have trouble imagining that
>things will not collapse during my lifetime because I look around and see
>the wounds we have inflicted upon the world.  I hear the screams of
>every living thing and it can depress me to no end.  And sometimes I think
>that it wouldn't be so bad if our species disappeared and left the rest in
>peace....
>
>>something else have a shot at it.  Right now, all I want to do is find
>>some quiet little island or something to live on so I can avoid as much
>>of the splat as I can when the shit finally hits the fan. 
>>
>>Janis
>> 
>      I'm new to this group, and I'm very new to thinking of myself as
>neo-pagan (although my religion has been with me my whole life), so please
>excuse me if I'm butting in and if I don't understand how you view your
>religion.  This is just my viewpoint and please accept/reject/modify or
>ignore it as you see fit.  I'm replying because your post is sending waves
>of pain that I just can't ignore..... 

nor can I, Janis.  Once you wrote me such a cheering letter after a whole bunch
of painful stuff on the net. (I sent off a return letter, but I'm not sure 
if it got to you--our computers were getting bitchy.)  I can't let slide 
someone who's been so welcoming and kind to me.
>
>    Sometimes I want to run from this dying too, and I get mad because I
>just can't understand why it has to be.  I go outside and ask my
>equivalent of gods and goddesses WHY.  The only answer I ever get is that
>the universe is an endless cycle of birth and death and that there are NO
>exceptions to this--us included.  This cycle and the power that comes from
>it/drives it, is far older than our species and will continue far beyond
>our extinction.  Yes, we have done damage to the world, but it isn't dead.
>
>    If we are going to die, let's die with dignity.  Neither you nor I can
>stop all of the pain and destruction our species causes.  But you and I
>CAN make whatever time there is left more beautiful.  I don't know you
>Janis, but from what I've seen of your postings, you give a damn about
>people and the world.  That is a huge contribution right there, and you DO
>make a difference.   It's ok to be angry and tired sometimes, but please 
>don't retreat to your island for forever.  Keep striving for beauty and
>give as much of it as you can.  The worst that can happen is that our
>species will find some way to continue, and you will have helped us to be
>better :-)

I agree.  Every little bit helps...like the tiny plants that started to process
atmosphere so very long ago.  Everything counts.
>    Please, hiding from the world won't save it or you. and I should know.
My mother has hated the world ever since I could remember, and is convinced
that the bombs are going to fly.  The world has nothing to offer her in her
eyes, especially humanity in general.  Her solution to the problems inside and
out is to hide from the world, boasting that she'll be the only survivor, 
and that she'll be glad when humanity is gone and she has the place to herself.
She has become obsessed with her view of Armageddon, and is convinced that
backing away from everything that can hurt her is the answer.
     The problem is, it's like dealing with a cancer in the body.  If the human
race has to die, then there's nowhere that's really safe.  You can't hide from
your own illnesses, because they'll catch up with you all too soon.  Our
entire society is based on people hiding from the things they've started.
     In spite of (Maybe because of) my mother, I have chosen to fight.
I'm sick of going somewhere wonderful and doing something I'm proud of and
having that miserable woman tell me, "That's nice--enjoy your petty little 
joys while you can and your little travels and visits.Because When the Time
Comes,you won't get to do those things anymore. I hope you've learned to can 
water!"  If the human race has only 30 years, so be it.  I'll fight 
for it anyway, because I love humanity in general, and I can't doom her 
by inaction when I have a chance to try and help save it.
     At least this way, if I and the rest of the Humankind have to go,
we can try to cross the Rainbow bridge (or it'sequivalent) on the way in to
Valhalla for Valient behavior.  Okay, it would get kinda crowded with--what,
10 billion people?  You get the idea.
                       Hang in there, Janis. I think you're great.
                       Hi, Amy. Thanks for starting this up--i was going to,
                       but really didn't know how to start. thank you.

                       Blessings all, 
                       La Mort.
t 
>     Peace, Amy
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