From: faris@sarcasm.trl.OZ.AU (Aziz Faris)
Subject: Re: Arab U N I T Y
Reply-To: a.Faris@trl.oz.au 
Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne,Australia
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 01:47:05 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.140704.18642@ioe.ac.uk>, tehhhal@ioe.ac.uk (MR HANIF LADHA) writes:
 
|> We haven't as yet arrived in the 21st century, but nevertheless, are you of
|> the opinion that religion no longer has solutions to human propblems or
|> only "human propblems such as Arab unity."  What is so special about this
|> problem as opposed to problems like drug abbuse?

To me religions are teachings that give us a moral code so that we can live in
harmony with nature. A moral code that will allow us to treat one another as
equal. A moral code that allow us to be kind, caring, and forgiving toward each
other. There is no difference to the issues you have pointed out, however,
religion will not solve either.

|> I am not sure what you mean by "During Islam".  Isn't there Islam now?  Are
|> you refering to the historical development of Islam?  If so how can you
|> claim that there were not any Arabs?  Indeed many groups existed under the
|> rubric of an Islamic empire.  However, I am not convinced that they were
|> all united.  The first century of Islam was dominated by Arabs, then with
|> the comming of the Abbasis dynasty this domination was broken.  In this
|> process there was a great deal of conflict between Arabs and the non-Arabs
|> (mainly Persians).

I mean during the golden days of the Islamic empire, off course there is Islam
right now. However, you are mis-interpreting the paragraph. During those golden
years, all people were known as Muslims regardless of race or national identity.
The people that live in the present Arabic speaking states were not explicitly
called Arabs, they were called Muslims. Islamic priniciples as set by the
Qur'an refer to Muslims and not Arabs or Iranians etc. National or racial
identity is non-existant under an Islamic system.

|> 
|> I am not confident about agruing this point with you as I am not sure what
|> you mean by "explaining nature."  However. with respect to "people fail
|> to... Islam and other religions have failed", I have a problem.  You
|> distinguish between people and religion.  Why do you treat them as two
|> different entities.  It is difficult to envisage religion without people.
|> What I am trying to get is that you cann't just say religions have failed.
|> You need to to look at how people have treated "their religions".

Have you read any books on the origins of religions and in particular what the
ancient Sumerians, Babylonians, Assyrians, Pheonicians, and Egyptians religious
beleifs were?. Those religions and most others were meant to explain and unlock
the secrets of nature.

Religions have failed to unify people, this was my major point. Do you
dis-agree?. People tend to unite among tribal and national lines, not religious
lines. I beleive Islam has initially supressed those feelings among the people
that made up the Islamic empire, soon afterwards, they resurfaced and broke up
that empire into various sects and regions.

I treat people and religions as two entities because they are two entities.
Religion is a tool, people are a biological specey. People do not fail, however,
tools fail to perform in the task at hand. Religion has failed as a tool to
unify people, people have not failed to unify. The Arabic world will continue
to fail until they realise that.

|> 
|> This depends on how you define Islam. If you consider Islam as 
|> theologico-political system then of course it wouldn't work as there are 
|> so many flavours.  But, how about looking at the humansitic  values.
|> 

Islam has many good humanistic values, Christianity has many good humanistic
values. The survival of a national entity requires goodwill and badwill. One
cannot survive by being good at all times. I  assume the post that I responded
to was calling to unite along the line of the Islamic empires golden age.
It seems to me, that some people still do not realise that the goals and
conditions are different. Those same people still do not realise that there are
differences in the Arabic world that Islam cannot resolve, the various flavours
are some of them.

A.Faris
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic