HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: FCC will proclaim Microsoft is run by Communists! : )
Date: 5 Jan 1993 15:33:22 GMT
Organization: UT Health Science Center Houston

In article <1993Jan5.005920.28694@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> helz@ecn.purdue.edu (Randall A Helzerman) writes:
>|> Here's the catch: they still pay MS for the machines which have OS/2 on them.
>Just for the initial "trial case" of OS/2.  IF IBM cuts them a good enough
>deal for OS/2, or if their customers buy enough OS/2, it will be worth their
>while to sign up a nonexclusive deal with Microsoft.

"Good enough" and "enough" can be raised artificially hign by MS, though,
simply by varying the price difference between an exclusive deal and a
nonexclusive deal.

>|> Nope...MS' agreement would be like me having to buy one screw from ACME for
>|> every screw I buy from 2 Guys Garage, knowing that those screws would never
>|> get used.
>Talk about screwing the customers!  :-) Actually if the cheaper screws worked
>they'd just go with 2 Guys Garage for the whole Cahuna and phase out the use of
>ACME screws.  

Ah, but, in that case, the customer doesn't care what screws are being used;
as long as the product is held together, it makes no difference to him. In
contrast to that, I _do_ care which OS comes on my machine (after all, this is
the whole purpose of this exercise), and, I presume, others would care that
their machine comes with DOS and Windows (though the reason completely escapes
me).

>Inasmuch as I can't buy piecemeal and assemble a computer from parts without
>an OS for as little as Gateway or Zeos can ship me an assembled one with
>Windows for, I really can't complain about being hurt.

You're not looking in the right places, then.
-- 
Jay Maynard, EMT-P, K5ZC, PP-ASEL | Never ascribe to malice that which can
jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu      | adequately be explained by stupidity.
      "Science is all in the public domain, and allows few secrets."
              -- Tom Clancy, _The Sum of all Fears_
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: helz@ecn.purdue.edu (Randall A Helzerman)
Subject: Re: Is Microsoft using "Force"???
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 20:49:45 GMT

In article <C0HtF3.7E5@csfb1.fir.fbc.com>, jbrock@csfb1.fir.fbc.com (John Brock) writes:
|> In article <1993Jan7.042406.29500@noose.ecn.purdue.edu>, helz@ecn.purdue.edu (Randall A Helzerman) writes:
|> |> [...deleted...]
|> |> Haw haw haw.  This is the third post accusing me of not understanding
|> |> the meaning of the word "pressure" so I suppose the only thing to do is
|> |> give another English lesson.  *sigh*  Definition of pressure:
|> |> 
|> |> 1. press.ure \'presh-*r\ n 1a: the burden of physical or mental distress 
							       ^^^^^^^

Definition 1a: of pressure is a metaphorical use of the term, as in "Because of
all these deadlines I've been under a lot of pressure lately."

|> Every meaning of the word which is relevent to the definition of "Coerce"
|> above explicitly indicates physical force being used except for 1b: which
         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Notice that I said each meaning "which is relevent to the definition of
"Coerce".  Being under "pressure" because you have a lot to do has nothing
to do with Coerce.  Its just like the word "may" can be a modal (e.g. "May I
go out with you?") or a month.  Look at the other definitions of pressure
and you'll see that my point is valid.

Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: wiegand@rtsg.mot.com (Robert Wiegand)
Subject: Re: FCC will proclaim Microsoft is run by Communists! : )
Reply-To: motcid!wiegand@uunet.uu.net
Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 19:21:02 GMT

discar@nosc.mil (Joe Discar) writes:

>Okay, Jay.  Let's say that there are two companies A and B.  A sells 
>computers with DOS+Windows for $1000.  B sells computers without DOS+Windows
>for $1005.  Who would you buy from?

>Remember A can sell for cheaper because his sales are much higher and his
>distributors therefore give him better prices for hardware... and B is slow
>in realizing that most of his customers want DOS+Windows--and he charges
>full-price for it (so those customers go to A who has a better deal
>for such a system).

The problem with this argument is that you are assuming that the present
state of the business is the only possible alternative.

Given the present Microsoft sales policies we are stuck with the
kind of choices you give.

If Microsoft offered a less rescrictive sales option company A could also
be offering a computer without DOS+Windows for $980.

Just because a choice is the best available now doesn't mean that its
the best possible.

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Wiegand - Motorola Inc.
motcid!wiegand@uunet.uu.net            uunet!motcid!wiegand
Disclamer: I didn't do it - I was somewhere else at the time.
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.os2.apps,comp.os.os2.misc,comp.os.os2.networking
From: jimh@pacdata.uucp (Jim Harkins)
Subject: Re: ibm tcp/ip a ripoff?
Organization: Pacific Data Products
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 21:39:05 GMT

In article <1993Jan11.232826.19272@msc.cornell.edu> tommy@lynx.msc.cornell.edu.UUCP (Mike Thompson,332,54714,2734927) writes:
>In <1iratf$aqq@agate.berkeley.edu> ucbked@athena (Earl H. Kinmonth) writes:
>
>>a) expensive (150 pounds after educational discount);
>
>You get what you pay for (or hopefully).

Yep, and you paid for them 3 letters (eye-be-em).  Too bad this often precludes
bang for the buck.  Only half a :-), the other half is a :-(

jim

-- 
Plumbers Motto:  A flush beats a full house.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Jim Harkins                         [ucsd|uunet]!pacdata!jim
Pacific Data Products               jim@pacdata.com
--------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: mattair@sun44.synercom.hounix.org (Charles Mattair)
Subject: Re: DOS 6 Beta Looks for OS/2!!!!!!!!
Organization: Synercom Technology, Inc., Houston, TX
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 17:00:46 GMT

In article <1993Jan04.051525.12326@microsoft.com> petesk@microsoft.com (Pete Skelly) writes:
>
>How's this for a good reason.
>Imcompatabilities between the OS/2 boot manager and the NT boot manager.
>Which one get's to own the boot sector?  It seems to be a lot easier to
>wrangle the OS/2 boot sector into a form compatable with the NT multiboot
>manager than the other way around, unless your a professional DEBUG 
>user, that is.
>

By boot sector, I assume you mean the primary boot (track 0, sector 0).
Why is it important who owns it?  Are there technologically insurmountable
problems if NT's boot manager is invoked by OS/2's?  I happily run OS/2,
DOS 5.0 and Interactive 3.2 off the same drive using ISC's boot manager.
Incidentally, ISC doesn't understand anything past DOS 3.0.  If I want OS/2
or DOS to boot directly, I just FDISK that partition active.

Anyway, OS/2 was there first.  Why can't MS make the NT boot manager
compatible w/OS/2s?

Part of the problem is MS wants to own the desktop.  If they can't do it
gracefully, they use the expedient of ensuring their software doesn't coexist
with anyone else's.
-- 
Charles Mattair		 			mattair@synercom.hounix.org
Any opinions offered are my own and do not reflect those of my employer.
Gates and Walton are the perfect reasons for a wealth tax.
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: ekl@kvamdata.no (Eirik Lygre)
Subject: Re: Programming journals
Organization: Kvam data as
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 19:18:16 GMT

In article <C0o6s4.DMK@news.cso.uiuc.edu> nap42487@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Nishith A. Patel) writes:
>My only problem though, is I don't
>know of any programming journals that do consider OS/2.
>

Consider "Computer Language". In the January 1993 edition, Thomas Murphy,
who is product review editor for the magazine, ends an article called
"Speeding development with 32 bits" with the following quote:

   "OS/2 is the best $100 a developer could ever spend"

In general, I think "Computer Language" is one of the greates programmings
journals around. Their stuff is first-class, and they've got some great
columnists hanging around. Recommended!

Eirik

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Eirik Lygre                                     Phone:    +47 4 623766
Kvam data as                                    Fax  :    +47 4 623985
PO Box 1101 Lura                                Email: ekl@kvamdata.no
N-4301  SANDNES, NORWAY
======================================================================
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: johnw@wixer.cactus.org (john winthrop)
Subject: Re: OS/2 Computer Search
Organization: Real/Time Communications
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 93 19:11:15 GMT

In article <1993Jan5.201132.17054@athena.mit.edu> mgrice@athena.mit.edu (Matthew Grice) writes:
>I'm a UNIX guy myself, but my parents are looking for a new computer
>and I thought you would like to know what it is like to deal in
>an os/2-hostile market.
>
>1)Parents wanted a Tandy Sensation.  Convinced them that they didnt.
Good job!
>2)Told them they wanted a real IBM
Preferable, but definitely not necessary.
>3)Got ready to order it, found out it might get here in march.
>4)Went to computerland.  They had 2 computers (total, not kinds)
>5)Had some idiot volunteer to deinstall os/2 and install windoze on
>  an IBM for me.  Told me os/2 needs 12M minimum RAM.  Told him to go to
>  hell.
12M min ram? Too bad I was running os/2 on 4m successfully for several months!
>6)Thought about putting together a computer for the parents
>7)gave up after calling companies and asking them about os/2 drivers
>  for various parts.  They didn't have a clue.
>8)Decided to get it all from IBM--but I wait 3 months to get it.
>
>That's what it is like, folks.  You want OS/2, you buy IBM ( if you 
>dont understand DOS/Windows/ISA/x86 (which I dont))
>
>-matt
I don't think it is at all necessary to buy IBM... I bought my system
from a cheap, computer discounter, called the Logic Approach, here in
Austin.  Even though many people had bad experiences with them, I
decided to do it anyway.  I bought a 386 board, that wasn't even
compatible with my *IBM* EGA card from an PC/AT. It even took me several
months to find the manufacturer of the board. It kept coming up in
40 columns, however, OS/2 RAN ON IT! 

My system now is a hodgepodge of various no-name boards, controllers,
and esdi hard drives... Every time I look inside it (I never keep the
cover on it because I am always adding and removing boards, and
switching harddrives)... Still, OS/2 RUNS!

This system must be living proof that buying IBM is not necessary for
running os/2 2.0...

-- 
John Winthrop                    | "The only solution is:
johnw@wixer.cactus.org           |  cd /
cactus.org!wixer!johnw           |  rm -rf ."
=================================================================
From: rick@sjsumcs.sjsu.edu (Richard Warner)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: No TrueType Fonts in OS/2 2.1 ?!
Date: 8 Jan 93 16:04:58 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: San Jose State University - Math/CS Dept.

bruce@ais.com (Bruce C. Wright) writes:

>In article <96122@rphroy.ph.gmr.com>, rbotimer@max.ct.gmr.com (R Douglas Botimer) writes:
>> In article <1993Jan7.193312.16367@clark.dgim.doc.ca> tennesen@mars.dgrc.doc.ca  
>> (Andy Tenne-Sens) writes:
>> 

>I don't think this is much of an issue either way;  and even if you _do_
>do high-end DTP, it's quite possible and not at all difficult to use
>TrueType on-screen and Adobe for printing, if you're using Windows;  or
>to use Adobe for both, if you're using OS/2.  In most cases neither the
>user nor the application will be aware of the font technology in use.

This is a gross overstatement.  No graphics artist or high-end DTP'er 
would use one font for the screen and another for the printer - not if
they want to make a living!  No matter how close the look is, there are
usually subtle-to-large differences in spacing information that will 
significantly change a document once you change fonts, no matter how close
the two fonts are related to one another.  

TrueType is a poor step-sister because the printing technology for TT
is so far behind PostScript.  The *ONLY* printers that can directly
handle TT are TrueImage printers (TrueImage is MS's attempt at a 
PostScript like Page Description Language).  Very few TrueImage printers
are out in the real world, so in order to print TrueType fonts the
TT engine (in Windows, TT for DOS, or Apple System 7) all need to
either convert the TT font to Adobe Type 1 or rasterize it for the
printer.  In the first case, any conversion loses something, so when
TT fonts are converted to Type 1 they are subtly different and 
inferior to the original.  So most TT fonts end up being rasterized by
the TT engine (as opposed to being rasterized in the printer) and that
all takes CPU resources.  MS's TT engine is slow - very slow.  So slow
in fact that Corel actually built their own TT rasterizer for CorelDraw
because their customers were complaining about how slow TT font printing
was.

MS/Apple caused multiple problems with TrueType, but the worst is that
they put the cart before the horse.  They flooded the market with TT
fonts while printer and printer driver support was almost totally
lacking.  That is why those who depend on how their output looks
(graphic artists/professional DTP'ers) are still using Adobe fonts.

>Bruce C. Wright
From: pss1@kepler.unh.edu (Paul S Secinaro)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: FCC will proclaim Microsoft is run by Communists! : )
Date: 6 Jan 1993 14:48:11 GMT
Organization: University of New Hampshire  -  Durham, NH
NNTP-Posting-Host: kepler.unh.edu

In article <1993Jan6.135137.21866@wraxall.inmos.co.uk> des@inmos.co.uk (David Shepherd) writes:

>: You must never have run it on lesser hardware, then; it ran fine for me on a
>: 386SX-16 with 8 meg RAM and two 40 meg hard disks.
>
>you had 8 meg RAM ? you had it lucky, I only had 5 Meg RAM and it
>was acceptable.

5 Meg?  You were lucky!  I ran it on only 1 Meg and a broken floppy
drive!  And every morning after coming to work my sysadmin would beat
me over the head with a broken bottle!

:-) :-) :-)

(NOTE: I apologize to everyone for paraphrasing an old Monty Python
sketch.  Sometimes I just can't control myself :-) )


-- 
Paul Secinaro
pss1@kepler.unh.edu
Synthetic Vision and Pattern Analysis Laboratory
UNH Dept. of Electrical and Computer Engineering
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: 5692330@mcimail.com  (Robert Gammon)
Subject: Re: SGI-GL in Windows NT??
Nntp-Software: PC/TCP NNTP
Organization: Texas Instruments Materials and Controls Group
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 13:30:21 GMT

In article <hatton.726530814@cgl.ucsf.edu> hatton@socrates.ucsf.edu (Tom Hatton) writes:

 >> hochstae@allfiwib1.wiwi.uni-marburg.de (Christoph H. Hochstaetter) writes:
 >> 
 >> >In <8368@lib.tmc.edu> jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard) writes:
 >> >>In article <dlcogswe.726380388@vela> dlcogswe@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Dan Cogswell) writes:
 >> >>>A guy I work with told me today the Microsoft has bought the rights to
 >> >>>include SGI-GL with Windows NT and will be including it in an upcoming
 >> >>>release!  This is quite an  advantage over OS/2 and brings NT to
 >> >>>workstation level, in my opinion.  If NT will have GL standard, I will
 >> >>>most likely be switching over from OS/2.
 >> >>
 >> >>OK...what is SGI-GL, and what's so great about it?
 >> 
 >> >SGI-GL is the Graphics-Library, Silicon Graphics is using on their work-
 >> >stations. I personally have no experience with it, but the people, that
 >> >are using it here on IRISes and INDIGOs are very satisfied.
 >>                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 >> Thanks for making the point - it's the HARDWARE that SGI has that makes
 >> the software look nice. I shudder to think of all those polygons being
 >> massaged on a 486 with a (S)VGA, presuming that kind of config is even
 >> supported.

I work in a segment of the semiconductor industry that sells chips to people
like SGI.  The graphics accelerator used has the MIPs equivalent of about 10
486s, and the MFLOPs equivalent of about 25 or more 486s.  The bar is raised
every few months, once or twice a year.  Competition between the companies
is FIERCE.  
--
Regards,
Robert Gammon
(713)-274-3299       (voice)
(713)-274-2324       (fax)

Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker)
Subject: Re: Just how old is CompSci anyway? (How many Nobel Prizes has IBM won?)
Organization: Camosun College, Victoria B.C, Canada
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 21:44:50 GMT

ckincy@cs.umr.edu (Charles Kincy) writes:
: In article <1993Jan5.215350.16675@spang.Camosun.BC.CA> dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker) writes:
: >ckincy@cs.umr.edu (Charles Kincy) writes:
: >[....]
: >: Most people would say that Computer Science is not a science, but
: >: a craft.  [Read comp.org.eff.talk for more about this].  However,
: >: even if it is a science, it's only been around for about 60 years
: >: or so.  Too early to break with tradition I suppose.
: >
: >60 years? What are you dating this from then?
: 
: Well, ENIAC came out when?  Mid-40s?  I believe the work on it started
: sometime in the mid-30s, in earnest.  And there was also something
: developed in Germany called "Plaenkalkul".  A programming language 
: before there was a computer to implement it!  [Although, this was an
: isolated effort...]

Ahem. I don't think work started on ENIAC in the mid 30s. The German
development you are referring to is probably Karl Zuse's computer -
the Elektron? from c1938.


: You could be more liberal and call it 100 years old, going back to 
: Babbage's calculating thing that helped make the Census useful again.
: [Before that machine, it was taking close to ten years to tabulate
: the Census...]

Wrong. Babbage's difference engine was designed to improve accuracy
and speed of navigational tables. The analytical engine - which
essentiall foreshadowed the von Neumann architecture - was never
completed, and was in fact technologically not feasible at the time.
This dates from c150 years ago.

The system which improved the processing of the US census was Hermann
Hollerith's punched card, but it wasn't really a computer.

: Or, you could be less liberal, and call it 40 years old, starting with
: the development of FORTRAN.  
: 
: 60 years is just as good as any other figure, in other words.  :)

I was thinking more in terms of 'science' and thus things like
Turing's paper on computability (1936?) Church's lambda calculus
(1940?). Where does the pushwon automata theory fit chornoligcally
into this anyone?


--
Real:  Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept., Camosun College, Victoria B.C.
Email: (dbarker@spang.camosun.bc.ca)
Phone: +1 604 370 4452
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Is Microsoft the next Standard Oil?
Date: 4 Jan 1993 16:35:18 GMT
Followup-To: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Organization: UT Health Science Center Houston

In article <1993Jan4.005008.13699@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> helz@ecn.purdue.edu (Randall A Helzerman) writes:
>Yes.  A company can't enforce its will using guns--a government can.

On the other hand, a company _can_ put another company out of business. Who
needs guns?
-- 
Jay Maynard, EMT-P, K5ZC, PP-ASEL | Never ascribe to malice that which can
jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu      | adequately be explained by stupidity.
      "Science is all in the public domain, and allows few secrets."
              -- Tom Clancy, _The Sum of all Fears_
From: jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: More thoughts on ads..
Date: 4 Jan 1993 16:32:31 GMT
Organization: UT Health Science Center Houston

In article <1993Jan3.205549.1823@solaris.rz.tu-clausthal.de> hochstae@allfiwib1.wiwi.uni-marburg.de (Christoph H. Hochstaetter) writes:
>Good idea, they should show this "The system has stopped" screen and a
>frustrated custumer, who is trying to get this "superior qualified support"
>for the "superior crash protection".

Only if MS includes a screen with a GPF on it in its ads; after all, that's a
much more common occurrence.
-- 
Jay Maynard, EMT-P, K5ZC, PP-ASEL | Never ascribe to malice that which can
jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu      | adequately be explained by stupidity.
      "Science is all in the public domain, and allows few secrets."
              -- Tom Clancy, _The Sum of all Fears_
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: ojtv@phoenix.oulu.fi (Olli Vuolteenaho)
Subject: Re: SMALL Excerpt from "Windows Sources"
Organization: University of Oulu, Finland
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 11:23:40 GMT


Mike Timbol (timbol@netcom.com) wrote:
: 
: The figures you are posting probably refer to the SDK, not NT itself.  (I
: also think your flyer ends with "(300 MB recommended)", not required.
: 
:      - Mike

It was "recommended", sorry for my mistake.

Olli
____________________________________________
From: spexet@math.lsa.umich.edu (D. Robert Spexet II)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: Just how old is CompSci anyway? (How many Nobel Prizes has IBM won?)
Date: 7 Jan 1993 06:28:53 GMT
Organization: University of Michigan, Mathematics Department, Ann Arbor
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: supernova.math.lsa.umich.edu

In article <1993Jan6.214450.2096@spang.Camosun.BC.CA> dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker) writes:
>The system which improved the processing of the US census was Hermann
>Hollerith's punched card, but it wasn't really a computer.

It might be noted, however, that the company that Hollerith founded to make
the punched-card machines later became IBM Corporation.

>Real:  Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept., Camosun College, Victoria B.C.
>Email: (dbarker@spang.camosun.bc.ca)
>Phone: +1 604 370 4452


-- 
D. Robert Spexet II, N0OKR   Internet:  spexet@umich.edu, dspexet@attmail.com
Department of Mathematics    BITnet:    user68xr@umichum.bitnet
The University of Michigan   UUCP:      uunet!mailrus!math.lsa.umich.edu!spexet
Ann Arbor, Michigan 48109    ATTMail:   !dspexet
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.os2.apps,comp.os.os2.misc,comp.os.os2.networking
From: teague@a.cs.okstate.edu (Keith Teague)
Subject: Re: ibm tcp/ip a ripoff?
Organization: Oklahoma State University
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 93 20:51:12 GMT

From article <C0pB29.6Lx@ccu.umanitoba.ca>, by umcarls9@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Charles Carlson):
> In <1iratf$aqq@agate.berkeley.edu> ucbked@athena (Earl H. Kinmonth) writes:
> 
>>a) expensive (150 pounds after educational discount);
> 
> It's recently dropped in price, now $125 U.S. BEFORE edu discounts.
> 
>>b) hard to get (took nearly a month after order was placed);
> 
> I walked into the campus bookstore:
> "How much for IBM's TCP/IP for OS/2?"
> "Whats that?"
> "A TCP package for OS/2"  (duuuuh)
> "Ah, oh, I don't think thats available yet"
> "Its been out for over a year now"
> "Well, it won't work on OS/2 2.0 then" (this was 4 months ago)
> "Yes it does"
> "Well, give me your number and I'll contact IBM and ask them"
> 
> I never heard back.
> 
>>c) few ethernet cards supported (compared to wattcp with clarkson
>>packet drivers);
> 
> That's why I stick with WD/SMC stuff, its ALWAYS supported.  Perhaps you
> should contact the manufacturer of the card for MAC and NDIS drivers for OS/2?

A large number of NDIS drivers are available for anonymous ftp from 
vax.ftp.com in the ndis subdirectory.

Keith Teague