HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: nor@hekla.pnge.psu.edu (Nor-Azlan Nordin)
Subject: Portugese : same ol' crap....
Organization: PSU Earth and Mineral Sciences
Distribution: alt.culture.indonesia
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 21:25:59 GMT

In article <JASA.92Oct30195048@dalton.inesc.pt> jasa@dalton.inesc.pt (Jose Antonio Soares Augusto) writes:

>>(Jose A. S. Augusto) has written in soc.culture.portuguese "...an
>>excellent vehicle to corner and insult Indonesians..."

Indonesians,

Don't bother about it.  It is a typical attitude of the Europeans
(arrogant, holier than thou with smartass attitude).  Not only the 
Portuguese though, even the British, French, Dutch and all those 
disgusting ex-colonial powers who think they are the best on this planet 
by bullying weaker countries not so long ago.  They still have that 
disgusting attitude until now.  

There was a flame war about East Timor not so long ago in soc.culture.asean 
(me against the Australians).  When the Indonesians defending their 
countries from communist Fretilin in East Timor, they (the Australians) 
accused Indonesia as a neo-colonialist country.  What a crap!!!  They even 
went as far as labelling Malaysia as an Apartheid country.


>At least AS A PORTUGUESE I AM VERY PROUD THAT OUR NEWS GROUP
>SOC.CULTURE.PORTUGUESE IS NOT INVADED BY PEOPLE CLAIMING THAT WE ARE A BUNCH
>ASSASSINS...

At least, as a Malaysian I care about my country and damn proud of it. 
And, of course I love Indonesia (the same people more or less) too 
especially when dealing with some arrogant Europeans (whose ancestors 
had destroyed most of the peaceful countries in the region for the
last 300 years).  The unmitigated truth about the Europeans (the Dutch, 
Portuguese, British, French and the newcomer, the Australians) is that
they are all the same disgusting species!!!!

Leave us alone, will you????


>J. Augusto

-nor azlan "EMON" nordin-  
      Penn State
From: regius@cs.utexas.edu (Regius S. Gunawan)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.indonesia
Subject: Post not in English/Indonesian
Date: 12 Nov 1992 17:21:05 -0600
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: grit.cs.utexas.edu

In article <1992Nov12.163636.12782@inesc.pt> Mr. Jose' Luis B. Borbinha writes:
>O mesmo pra ti meu cabrao

I really think it is AT LEAST IMPOLITE to post in a culture group
something in a language that's neither the culture's nor understood
my the majority.
Since this newsgroup is call alt.CULTURE.INDONESIA the languages
that's most apropriate IMHO is Indonesian (understood by *most*
of the ones from the culture :) and English (understood by *most*
of everyone else :)
Mr. Borbinha's act might inspire similar actions to other newsgroups.

Sincerely,
^_^ regius ^_^
ps. sorry again for bandwidth waste.
pps. maybe we should post just in English, and give
     a good example to others. ;)
From: andri@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: alt.culture.indonesia
Subject: Re:Re:Re:View from Timorese Resistance
Date: 9 Nov 92 07:07:46 CST
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

Dear Mr.Silveira,
I think if we perform a referendum right now in East Timor, 
there are two possibilities : (1) complete independence, (2) still
under Indonesian rule.
I actually don't know which one will come. But I don't think we are
afraid of the result. We are concern about further consequences in our
own territories if we do it now. Indonesia consists of more than 300
ethnic groups, and our 27 provinces were created mainly based on
ethnic preferences (including East Timor), if we give independence to
one we have to give it to others. In fact, each province is already
governed by their own people, East Timor too. Everyone is aware ot
this situation. But we also realize that a highly centralized
political system has many weaknesses so the ministry of interior affairs
has a plan to give full autonomy to every regency (every province
consists of 7 up tp 20 regencies) in all our 27 provinces. This plan
will be implemented before the year of 2000. By doing this we hope we
could get two things at once : (1) promoting
political/cultural/economic growth in every regency, and (2)
maintaining stability in this region.

Many Portuguese think that Indonesia is a millitary dictatorship, this
is not true. Soeharto will die eventually, but Indonesia has to
survive. Soeharto will contribute a page to our history, not all of
them. The decision to invade East Timor,anyway, was not made by him
alone, or with the help of his generals, it is made with a wide
concensus, especially with Adam Malik, a civilian statesman who also
one of the founder of this republic. Soeharto respects him and listen to
what he said.  




  
 
Newsgroups: alt.culture.indonesia
From: indra@earthview.cms.udel.edu (Indra Jaya)
Subject: Re: Solution for East Timor?
Reply-To: indra@earthview.cms.udel.edu
Organization: Marine Studies, University of Delaware
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 21:33:21 GMT


>From lms@rle-vlsi.mit.edu (Luis Miguel Silveira)
>Subject: Re: Solution for East Timor?
>Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 07:09:28 GMT

>Yes, Indonesia was exploited by the Dutch.  East Timor *was not*.
>That is the main difference and it (maybe) explains why the East
>Timorese do not feel they are part of Indonesia.

First, it's correct, East Timor was not exploited by The Dutch BUT by 
the PORTUGESE - noone should forget this. Second, the NON-East Timorese
like you and Rui are the one that do not feel you are part of Indonesia,
else, person like Soares and Carrascalo (present and former Governors of 
the province of East Timor) which were born and grew-up in East Timor
clearly feel that they are part of Indonesia (Read the latest interview 
with Soares, posted a few days ago in this newsgroup!). Now, please
stop pretending that you know or understand the feeling of East Timorese.
Let them speak for themselves.

I personally urge you to read carefully THE QUESTIONS, forget the answers
for the time being, during Mr. Soares interview, for you may get some 
senses of how we Indonesian sincerely and critically questioning our 
government policy and conduct toward the East Timor.   

Good luck on whatever you all do.

-Indra 

PS: My last posting on East Timor issue.

Newsgroups: alt.culture.indonesia
From: rgc@cubitos.inesc.pt (Rui Gustavo Crespo)
Subject: Bill Clinton position about ET
Organization: INESC
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 08:54:35 GMT

Today, the portuguese radio announced that Bill Clinton declared he is very
concerned about the East Timorease people. He stated that the current american
position does not conform the moral values (I'm not sure if these are the
correct words). He said that aid to Indonesia may be cut and intends to involve
more the US government in the affair.

I hope that all parts (Indonesia, Portugal, USA, Australia and the Timorease
people) may reach a final and peaceful solution for the problem. This, I believe,
could be the best thing to repair the 12th November 91 massacre at Santa Cruz
cemetry and the 200 000 ET killed by the indonesian army in the last 17 years.

All the best...

---Crespo
==============================================================================
|| .-. .-  .- || Rui Gustavo Crespo                                         ||
|| |_| |_  |  || INESC, Software Engineering Group                          ||
|| | \ |_| |_ || R. Alves Redol 9, Apart 10105, 1017 Lisboa Codex, Portugal ||
|| ~~~~~~~~~~ || Phone: +351 1 3100 204      E-mail: rgc@eniac.inesc.pt     ||
==============================================================================
Newsgroups: alt.culture.indonesia
From: donsw@cs.cornell.edu (Donald Wihardja)
Subject: Re: Is this a punishment?
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 15:12:01 GMT


>Even accepting your version ("troops response" as opposed to "ordered
>strike") someone should have been tried and held responsible. Instead,
>what happened? The batallion involved immediately disappeared such that
>nobody could interrogate them and know their version (they could even
>corroborate the official version!). Nobody was tried. Instead, people in
>the demonstration (and even people which weren't there) were arrested,
>beated, tried and sentenced in some cases to life.

Hmm... I was under the impression that ALL military personell involved 
was either demoted, or discharged. Anyone care to post to elaborate on
this? I just learn from hearsay.

Donald
-- 
CS Department, Cornell University
Ithaca, New York.
From: ck345@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Wira Putra)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.indonesia
Subject: Re: Portugese : same ol' crap....
Date: 13 Nov 1992 02:23:10 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc10.ins.cwru.edu


Azlan Nordin writes :

Orang Belanda yang dulunya datang ke Indonesia pun baik-baik juga.
Datang dengan muka yang manis sebagai pedagang ke Indonesia.
Lihat apa yang terjadi kepada Indonesia setelah kedatangan mereka.
Mereka hancurkan negara saudara.  Maybe now the Dutch has nothing
to do with Indonesia anymore ( I don't know ... ) But, the fact is
that the Dutch are still insisting their position in Indonesia's
     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
affairs.
^^^^^^^

Saya hanya mau tulis .....
 	orang Indonesia bilang ....
		itukan perasaan `dik azlan nordin' saja !

-----------------------------------------------------------------
------------- Wira Putra ----------------------------------------
--------------------------- ck345@cleveland.freenet.edu ---------
-- 
Newsgroups: alt.culture.indonesia
From: rahardj@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Budi Rahardjo)
Subject: Facts #3
Originator: rahardj@ccu.umanitoba.ca
Keywords: timor facts
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 16:07:21 GMT


The history of the de-colonization in East Timor
------------------------------------------------
	An orderly and peaceful decolonization came to an abrupt hald when in
August 1975 the Portuguese colonial administration abandoned East Timor in a
most irresponsible manner, after allowing the situation in the territory to
deteriorate to the point of civil war, in fact, after practically instigating 
civil war by clandestinely turning over its arms and munitions to one 
particular group, the Fretilin. In doing so, Portugal in effect relinguished 
its responsibility as administering power. In August and November 1975 
Indonesia was not even involved in the tragic events unfolding in East Timor, 
although it had to bear the consequences of the turmoil _interalia_ in the 
form of 42.000 East Timorese refugees streaming across the border in West Timor.

	Four political parties in East Timor (except Fretilin) proclaimed on
November 30, 1975 the independence of East Timor through integration with the
Republic of Indonesia. For the past seventeen years, the UN and the
international community at large have been subjected to a persistent effort of
disinformation and distortion on the question of de-colonization of East Timor 
as well as to a malicious campaign of slander and innuendo against Indonesia 
on this subject, launched by Portugal and the remnants of the Fretilin.

(Statement by H.E. Ali Alatas, Indonesian Foreign Minister
before members of the National Press Club, Washington D.C.
20 February 1992).



Indonesia's position on Human Rights
------------------------------------

	As a conscientious member of the United Nations and, since 1991, a member
of the UN Human Rights Commission, Indonesia accepts and recognized the
universal validity of basic human rights and fundamental freedoms.

	While human rights are indeed universal in character, it is generally
acknowledged that their expression and implementation in the national context
should remain the competence and responsibility of each government while taking
into account the complex variety of problems, of different economic, social and
cultural realties, and of different value systems prevailing in each country. 
This national competence not only derived from the principle of sovereignty of 
states, but is also a logical consequence of the principle of 
self-determination. Indonesia, therefore, cannot accept linking questions of 
human rights to other issues, such as to economic and development cooperations, 
or worse, making them into political conditionalities to such cooperation, 
as such linkages will detract from the value of both.

(East Timor: Building for the Future, 
published by the Department of Foreign Affairs, 
Republic of Indonesia, July 1992).
-- 
Budi Rahardjo <Budi_Rahardjo@UManitoba.Ca>
Unix Support - Computer Services - University of Manitoba
From: anto@dutetvd.tudelft.nl (Anto Daryanto)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.indonesia
Subject: Resep Masakan: PILAV
Date: 5 Nov 92 18:36:34 GMT
Organization: Delft University of Technology


Hallo semuanya, beberapa hari yang lalu saya membaca ada yang bertanya
mengenai resep masakan yang gampang. Ini salah satunya, kebetulan sering
dibuat di tempat saya tinggal (di student flat bersama-sama dengan 14
mahasiswa lain). Resep ini berasal dari eropa timur, tepatnya mana tidak
tahu. Juga banyak versi yang beredar selain yang tertulis di bawah ini.

Bahan: (untuk 4 orang)
	400 gr daging domba 
	buah nanas
	buah zaitun (olijven, bahasa Belandanya)
	kunyit (dalam bentuk serbuk)
	beras untuk 4 orang
	bawang putih (2 siung)
	200 gr keju muda yang di haluskan

Caranya:
 Dagingnya dipotong segiempat (sedang, jangan terlalu kecil). Nanasnya
juga. Bawang putih ditumbuk biar halus. Panaskan minyak dalam panci
(yang agak besar, dan kalau bisa minyak zaitun supaya lebih enak) bila
sudah panas masukkan bawang putih setelah itu masukkan potongan daging
ke panci. Dengan api besar biarkan sebentar lalu sambil diaduk-aduk
supaya matangnya merata. Kalau sudah agak kecoklatan sebarkan kunyit di
atas daging merata sampai agak kuning warnanya. Setelah itu masukkan
beras (jangan dimasak dulu), nanas dan zaitun. Lalu masukkan air
secukupnya (untuk mematangkan beras). Tambahkan garam dan merica
secukupnya. Kalau ada sari daging (boullion) masukkan. Tutup pancinya
dengan kertas alumunium lalu masukkan panci itu ke dalam oven yang
panasnya +/- 180 derajat. Tunggu +/- 20 menit lalu keluarkan panci itu
dan buka kertas alumuniumnya. Masukkan kejunya sambil diaduk-aduk.
Setelah itu bisa dihidangkan.

Selamat mencoba dan selamat makan.

Salam dari Delft,
Anto


--
Delft University of Technology,		|
Faculty of Electrical Engineering,    	| **********************************
Telecommunication- and Traffic-		|   **  Happy user of OS/2 2.0  **
Control Systems Group			| **********************************
					|
E-Mail: a.daryanto@dutetvd.et.tudelft.nl 
Newsgroups: alt.culture.indonesia
From: the@cs.utexas.edu (Khe-Sing The)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.indonesia
Subject: Re: Sekedar Himbauan
Date: 5 Nov 1992 09:35:14 -0600
Organization: U Texas Dept of Computer Sciences, Austin TX
NNTP-Posting-Host: panda.cs.utexas.edu

In article <1992Nov5.022542.60410@cc.usu.edu> slkqz@cc.usu.edu writes:
>Didalam newsgroups ini sebaiknya kita yang pegang kendalinya.
>Jika ada berita negatip terhadap Indonesia.... cukup di jawab
>satu kali....Apakah lawan diskusinya salah tangkap/paham
>terserah dia. 

Bagi rekan-rekan yang menggunakan rn untuk membaca news,
Anda dapat membuat 'kill file' untuk meloncati (dengan
kata lain,  tidak menanggapi) semua artikel yang subject
line-nya berisi kata tertentu,  ataupun semua artikel
yang dikirim oleh oknum tertentu.

Waktu kita terbuang percuma untuk membalas mereka yang 
berpandangan negatip terhadap Indonesia,  karena pendirian
mereka tidak akan berubah.  Kalau kita abaikan saja,
orang-orang yang sok tahu itu nanti akan bosan sendiri.

Merdeka!

--
Khe-Sing The
AT&T Bell Laboratories
<the@att.com>
Newsgroups: alt.culture.indonesia
From: hsiahaan@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: alt.culture.indonesia
Subject: Re: about ET: to indonesians (others also welcome)
Date: 12 Nov 92 11:47:46 CST
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

Mr Crespo,

both of your suggestions are not acceptable. if you read my other postings,
you can see that indonesian government has accepted and treated ETers as
indonesians. by no way will our government treat them differently from other
indonesians, this include their rights as well as their responsibilities. as
an indoensian, each ETer, as like other indonesians, will have to abide to the
laws. we cannot give previllages to them such as that referendum that you are
suggesting, because this will endanger the integrity of our nation. can you
imagine if you can gather some other portuguese in portugal and ask your go-
vernment to give you special previllage to make your own 'country' within
protugal (although this part of land maybe yours) ? this is nonsense.

your  other  suggestion of  pressing the ETers with military presence is
(obviously) sarcastic. again you guys (portuguese) keep on pointing only at
indonesian military mistakes. you never take any account our effort in term of
development in ET. what do you think will be of indoensian benefits killing
those innocent ETers deliberately ? (i bet you will answer this sarcastically
again!). what i am saying is that the tragedy and killings in ETers are not of
indonesian will. it is either by necessity  or by mistakes. by necessity for 
example is to take care of the rebellions in the ET which can be dengerous 
to other ETers (who are indonesian citizens) and to national integrity. 
by mistakes for example is the one that famous among you portuguese which has 
been handled properly by punishing the wrongdoers.

the only thing that i think will make the integration successful is time. time
heals wounds. i am not suggesting to forget those 'wounds'. but we dont want
to keep on sticking to them. as i've said repeatedly, give us time to proof our
(indonesian) real,good intention of ET integration: to increase the living
quality of ETers.

still, thank you for your unacceptable (sorry..) suggestions

h siahaan  
Newsgroups: alt.culture.indonesia
From: vasco@frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (Vasco Vasconcelos)
Subject: November 12, 1992.  One year after the Santa Cruz massacre.
Organization: Tokoro lab., Keio Univ., Hiyoshi, Yokohama, Japan.
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 05:03:11 GMT





Please notice the following three events to be held in Tokyo, on
Thursday November 12, one year after the Santa Cruz Cemetery massacre,
in Dili, East-Timor.  Recall that on November 12 1991, more than 100
East-Timoreese were brutally killed by the Indonesian Military Forces.
Also recall that Japan is the largest financial supporter of the
Indonesian regimen.


**********************************************************************

			PRESS CONFERENCE

Date:
        November 12 (Thursday), 11:00
Place:
	To be decided

East-timoreese Participants:
	Ana Inacio (living in Darwin, Australia)
	Veverian dos Reis (living in Sidney, Australia)
        Ligia Ximenes (living in Portugal)
Note:
	A declaration on ``Japanese citizens for democracy in
	Indonesia'' will be distributed in four languages (Japanese,
	Bahasa, English and Portuguese)


**********************************************************************

			DEMONSTRATION

		``We haven't forget Santa Cruz''
	      Mourning for the Santa Cruz massacre.

Meeting Time:
	November 12 (Thursday), 14:30 (to be held even in case of rain)

Meeting Place:
	Gotanda Koen (park), or Gotanda Sta-East exit until 14:30

Route:
	Gotanda Koen, Embassy of Indonesia, Meguro Station

Organization:
	Tokyo-East Timor Association
	Amnisty International-Japan


**********************************************************************

			JOINT ACTION
	EAST TIMOR ASSOCIATION - AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL

	   ``One year since the Santa Cruz massacre''

Date:
	November 12 (Thursday), 18:30~20:30
Place:
	University of Sophia, 3th Building, room 521
	3 minutes walking from the JR Chuo line, Yotsuya sta.
Fee:
	500 yen

Panelists:
	Kiyoko Furusawa	(Tokyo-East Timor Association)
	Yoko Iwamura	(Amnisty International-Japan)

East-timoreese Guests:
	Ana Inacio (living in Darwin, Australia)
	Veverian dos Reis (living in Sidney, Australia)
	Ligia Ximenes (living in Portugal)

Organization:
	University of Sophia Amnesty Group
Cooperation:
	Tokyo-East Timor Association
	Amnesty International-Japan

**********************************************************************


...........................................................
Vasco Thudichum Vasconcelos	     vasco@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp
Keio University  Department of Computer Science  Tokoro Lab
3-14-1  Hiyoshi  Kohoku-ku	Yokohama  223	      JAPAN
Phone:  +81-45-5601150/60	       FAX:  +81-45-5601151
...........................................................
From: andri@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: alt.culture.indonesia
Subject: Re:Recipes
Date: 9 Nov 92 19:36:19 CST
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

Nasi Goreng.

*   Beli beras yang kering kalau dimasak. Misalnya beras Jamine
Thailand. Jangan beli beras Jepang atau India. Rasanya lain.
**  Jerang minyak makan di kuali yang ukurnnya cukup. SAMPE PANAS.
    Minyaknya sedikit saja.
*** Rajang bawang pere kecil kecil, bawang juga. Jangan bawang putih
besar. Bawang merah yang besar dipotong kecil kecil.
****Masukkan bawangpere dan bawangmerah tadi ke kuali.
***** Nasi yang sudah masak masukkan ke kuali dan campur dengan kecap
sotong buatan Thailand. Warnanya coklat jernih. Keemudian boleh
ditambah dengan kecap asin biasa.
******* Telor dimatasapi atau didadar. Tomat diiris iris dan selada
juga. (Terpisah dengan nasinya).
Belakangan baru dicampur.
From: NXN101@psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.culture.indonesia
Subject: Re: Portugese : same ol' crap....
Date: 10 Nov 92 04:18:23 GMT
 <1992Nov6.212559.9432@ems.psu.edu> <FSYSBXJY@cc.swarthmore.edu>
Distribution: alt.culture.indonesia
Organization: Penn State University


In article <FSYSBXJY@cc.swarthmore.edu>, sepstei1@cc.swarthmore.edu (stephen
epstein) says:

>I read this newsgroup because I love Indonesia too, and even though my
>ancestors might have come from Eastern Europe, I think we're all pretty
>much the same people too-- human beings.  It's really sad to me to see the
>discussion about East Timor degenerate into this name-calling.  I'm not
>defending one side or the other, but the lack of civility in the debate
>really depresses me. Do you really think Europeans are "all the same
>disgusting species"?

Opps..sorry. Maybe not you.  You sound like a reasonable person.  What I was
talking about is the Europeans (Portuguese) like Lopez d' Sequiera and
Alfonso d' Alburquere who mercilessly invaded the Peninsular of Malaya
(the Malaccan Sultanate Empire) in 1511, brutally  killing thousands of
innocent peaceful people.  What the Portuguese did to East Timor have no
difference until the Indonesians involved in the issue.

Or, perhaps the name Daendles rings the bell.  A Dutch psychopath who forced
millions  of Indonesians to build the road of death from Western to Eastern
Java.  What was the purpose?  For Dutch Army to control the region
militarily, so, it would be easier for them to suppress the Indonesians.
Very disgusting indeed!!!! Ain't it?


>Diharap Nor-Azlan Nordin mengerti bahwa dia menistai bukan saja orang putih
>seperti saya tetapi juga semua manusia. Tolonglah, saudara, pikir sekali
>lagi.

Ok.  Saya bersalah menuduh seluruh orang Eropah (atau orang putih) sebagai
manusia yang menjijikan.  Saya mohon ma'af kepada orang putih yang baik-baik
termasuk saudara.
Tetapi di dalam newsgroup ini saya bertemu dengan orang Eropah yang
sama sikap dan mentaliti seperti ketiga-tiga orang yang saya sebut sebelumnya.
Tolonglah, saudara, NASIHATILAH teman-teman orang putih saudara yang belum
mengerti keadaan sesungguhnya di rantau ini. Saya sedih melihat orang-orang
putih yang "begok" dan "dungu" yang cuba berdebat mengenai masalah Tim-Tim
tetapi "bodoh macam lembu"!!!!!

Itu saja yang saya mohon.  Perlu diajarin lembu-lembu tersebut supaya
jadi pinter.....

>Stephen

-azlan nordin-
  Penn State