HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: howard.smith@spacebbs.com (Howard Smith) 
Newsgroups: sci.energy
Subject: Gas Tax
Date: 15 Dec 92 16:09:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: SPACE BBS - Menlo Park, CA - 10 Lines + 4gB - 415-323-4193
Reply-To: howard.smith@spacebbs.com (Howard Smith) 

The following is a letter that I sent to a number of editors of news
papers on December 27, 1990. It's still a good idea.

Dear Editor:

I've  got  this great idea. Why don't we raise the gasoline tax a
nickel  per gallon  per month for the next 60 months up to a level
drivers in other  countries  are paying. This action would reduce
traffic, smog and global  warming, spur Detroit to build more efficient
cars, encourage the development of alternate energy sources (which are
cost effective now), provide money for millions of  jobs  building
decent, public transportation, eliminate the  deficit,  and reduce the
need for that stupid war in the Gulf. We will pay more,  much  more
taxes to support that fiasco than my scheme.

Too  logical,  you say? Yeah! It would never fly... But  automobiles  do
make lousy coffins.

hhs
---
 . SLMR 2.1a . It's only a hobby ... only a hobby ... only a
  
From: curry@hplred.HPL.HP.COM (Bo Curry)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 20:16:59 GMT
Subject: Re: Notch another one up for the Greennazis
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Palo Alto, CA
Newsgroups: sci.energy

Oops: my mailer apparently cloned the original and omitted my response.
Let's try again:

 |(Steinn Sigurdsson) / 12:38 pm  Dec  9, 1992 /:
 |
 |   Not necessarily helpful  I think that when Pu enters the marrow, it is actually
 |   in the bone itself, not the marrow cells.  It should substitute for Ca in
 |   the bone structure.  A marrow transplant would probably leave the Pu behind
 |   to make leukemia all over again.  I doubt there is any effective treatment
 |   for over-exposure to Pu.
 |
 |Actually I've heard Pu can be leached out with some organic compounds,
 |so it can be flushed out of the body with treatment - anyone know
 |what the current status of that is?
 |

When I studied health physics (back in the 70's) the standard treatment
for Pu exposure was EDTA. This removes Pu from all tissues. Unfortunately,
it removes all other multivalent cations as well (incl. Ca, Mg, Fe, etc),
and thus must be accompanied with mineral supplements. Pretty nasty.
More recently (ca. 1986) I read of some more specific chelating agents
which have been developed for Pu. I disremember the details, but could
probably track them down.

Pu2O3, the refractory oxide, is toxic when inhaled. It remains in the
lungs, and is very difficult to remove. Pu+3, the soluble form, mimics
Fe+3 in several biological systems, including hemoglobin and myoglobin.
Pu2O3 is relatively harmless when ingested, which possibly accounts for
some of the delusions about the harmlessness of Pu.

Poisoning via ingestion of soluble Pu is probably curable if treated with
appropriate chelates before the Pu has had a chance to incorporate into
insoluble tissues (e.g. bone).

Bo Curry
From: ae277@yfn.ysu.edu (Stewart Rowe)
Subject: Re: Rape Oil as transport fuel
Organization: Youngstown State University/Youngstown Free-Net
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 01:37:34 GMT


Has anyone estimated the amount of petroeleum fuel required to
sosow, cultivated, harvest, crucsh or extract, and refincee
a given amount of rape oil, and compared this to the fuel value of
the product?
From: bj368@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike E. Romano)
Newsgroups: sci.energy
Subject: Re: passive solar: fact or fiction
Date: 16 Dec 1992 08:24:22 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


  I have followed the passive solar home movement and literature,
designs, etc since the 1970's.
I have to agree that passive solar is not significantly more
expensive than a more ==typical== home construction.

I would have to say:

Item 3---People won't buy passive solar homes because they are
ugly.

However, I would substitute the word ==non conformist== rather
than ugly.  There is always that perennial fear in terms of
real estate value: if the owners want to sell some day, will
the home be too odd in appearance to keep up with r.e. value,
and will the neighbors worry about having such a house on
their block, etc. etc.
 
It is a disappointment in my view, to say the least.  The 70's
brought great interest and a variety of excellent designs
were built, mostly spurred by the so called gasoline/oil
shortages, crisis, etc.
When that problem went away so did interest in passive
solar.


-- 
Capt. Kirk: let's head for that planet, third from the sun, it
            looks promising.... |-)
From: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick)
Newsgroups: sci.energy
Subject: Re: Flywheel batteries as EV power source
Date: 20 Dec 1992 23:32:54 GMT
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
Distribution: world
Reply-To: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu

In article <BzIIoy.4Gp@cs.uiuc.edu>, morrison@cs.uiuc.edu (Vance Morrison) writes:
=First is the question of flywheel particles hitting the housing.
=It seems that most of the discussion has assumed that the particles
=hit head on.  It seems to me that this may not be the case, and can
=be a significant factor.  If the housing was very close to the flywheel
=when the flywheel disintegrates each particle would stop it circular
=motion and start moving in a straight line.  If the housing was close
=to the flywheel, this would mean that the particles do not hit the
=housing straight on but at a very shallow angle.   As such it is quite
=possible that FAR less force is needed to deflect the particles  (basically
=as much force as was needed to hold the flywheel together in the first
=place).

But this force must be applied continuously to the particles until they stop.

=Thus it MIGHT be possible to contain the particles in a 
=swirling plasma inside a container for a relatively long period of time
=(milliseconds to seconds).

As this is happening, the inside of the container is being eroded away, and
you're developing a high-temperature (and hence high-pressure) gas inside the
housing.

=Eventually the housing would get so hot that
=it would fail,

At which point it would've been containing a high-pressure gas.

=but the worst of the kinetic energy might have been turned
=to heat by that time.   It was just a thought.

Yeah, much will've been turned into heat.  Some of this heat goes to producing
very high pressures inside the container.  Some goes into weaking the container.
When the pressure gets to be too much for the weakened, container, BOOM!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL

Disclaimer:  Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS.  That's what I get paid for.  My
understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below).  So
unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my
organization responsible for it.  If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to
hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it.
From: duanej@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Duane Jacobson)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 19:15:19 GMT
Subject: Re: passive solar: fact or fiction
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: sci.energy

/ hpfcso:sci.energy / constant@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Tino) /  9:13 am  Dec 17, 1992 /

>I'll stick to my gas bill (albeit a bit high) than have a roof full of
>panels fail with no one around to fix them or replace them.
>
>Tino
>-- 

I'll agree that retrofitting an existing home with active solar collectors
is a questionable investment.

However, as numerous people have pointed out, there are some very simple
approaches to passive solar, like putting most of the windows on the south
side of the house.  However, I see little or no evidence of even the
feeblest attempts on the part of builders to take advantage of the sun's
energy.  I've seen houses with a great southern exposure that haven't got
a single south window in the main living area.
--
Duane Jacobson
Newsgroups: sci.energy
From: mwilson@ncratl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM (Mark Wilson)
Newsgroups: sci.energy
Subject: Re: Electric Vehicle
Date: 20 Dec 92 19:39:11 GMT
Organization: NCR Engineering and Manufacturing Atlanta -- Atlanta, GA

In article <1992Dec16.175849.1@vax.sonoma.edu> oberland@vax.sonoma.edu writes:
|One more note:
|Most of the engine wear that occurs happens when you start the vehicle.

Spend a few bucks and invest in an electric oil pump.  That way you don't
have to start your engine until you have oil pressure.


-- 
Mob rule doesn't become any prettier, just because the mob start to call itself
a government.
It ain't charity if you are using someone else's money.
Mark.Wilson@AtlantaGA.NCR.com
Newsgroups: sci.energy
From: howard.smith@spacebbs.com (Howard Smith) 
Newsgroups: sci.energy
Subject: Tokyo Electric
Date: 18 Dec 92 08:25:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: SPACE BBS - Menlo Park, CA - 10 Lines + 4gB - 415-323-4193
Reply-To: howard.smith@spacebbs.com (Howard Smith) 

ZL>Awhile ago someone posted about an electric car from Tokyo Electric.
ZL>Would the poster please put that up again? You see, I was was talking to
ZL>Jose (?) from there and he wanted to see what was said. I tried to get
ZL>it but my site dosn't save news that far back. HE was wondering why
ZL>all of the sudden he was getting ALL these calls about the car.
ZL>Ahhh, the power of internet.

In the November 1992 issue of the IEEE Spectrum which features
articles on electric vehicles, the theme of the Wescon show this
year, there was a little squib about a vehicle by the Tokyo Elec-
tric Power Co., Inc using direct-drive motors in the wheels . I
took the trouble to call the Japanese trade office in San Fran-
cisco who gave me the address of the company in Washington, DC,
where most Japanese companies seem to have an office these days.
A fax to them resulted in mail with a press release, a paper on
the "IZA" car and drive and a fancy brochure.

The car is a really slick four passenger vehicle which has a
heat-pump type air conditioner, power steering, power brakes, and
power windows. This vehicle has attained a travel distance of
548km (342.5miles) per charge, a maximum speed of 176km/h
(110mph) and a 0-400m acceleration of 18.5sec.

The major technical features of the vehicle are: Four-wheel
direct-drive system with a motor in each wheel, Ni-Cd batteries,
carbon fiber reinforced plastic used in the body and aluminum for
the for the chassis, and low rolling resistance tires.

The air resistance coefficient is 0.19 compared to a 0.3 to 0.4
of the standard gas powered vehicle - meaning they have stream-
lined the bottom of the car as well.

This is the best EV (on paper) that I've run across. With NiMH
batteries it will be a real goer.

For more info contact

Jose T. Conto
E.E. Researcher
The Tokyo Power Company, Inc.
1901 L. Street, N.W., Suite 720
Washington, DC 20036

Tel:(202)457-0790
Fax:(202)457-0810

OK?

Gee! I hope Jose is not mad at me. Not at Christmas time!

Feliz Navidad!, Jose

hhs
---
 . SLMR 2.1a . This tagline is umop apisdn
                                                                                                        
Newsgroups: sci.energy
From: kk881595@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu (kevin knappmiller)
Subject: Flywheel as Mountain Bike energy storage medium
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 18:39:54 GMT
Reply-To: kk881595@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu
Organization: Colorado State U. Engineering College

I think the EV Flywheel thread has been exhausted, but
it brought about the idea of using a flywheel on
a mountain bike as a short term energy storage device
to aid in riding over and around things when pedalling
is tough as well as recapturing some energy when
going down hill.

I'm not a particularly agile mountain bike rider, but
I can think of lots of times that if I could twist
the grip, like on my motor cycle, and get a shot of torque,
that I could get over things I now crash and burn on.

If we had a torque source than was non-cyclic we could
also use suspensions that would just suck up energy
from pedalling.

Any thoughts?

Kevin Knappmiller
Solar Lab
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO  80523
(303)491-8215
kk881595@longs.lance.colostate.edu
Newsgroups: sci.energy
From: josh@Happy-Man.com (Joshua_Putnam)
Subject: Re: Flywheel as Mountain Bike energy storage medium
Reply-To: Joshua_Putnam@happy-man.com
Organization: Happy Man Corp., Vashon Island, WA 98070-7399
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 21:29:03 GMT

In <Dec18.183954.78906@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> kk881595@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu (kevin knappmiller) writes:

>I think the EV Flywheel thread has been exhausted, but
>it brought about the idea of using a flywheel on
>a mountain bike as a short term energy storage device
>to aid in riding over and around things when pedalling
>is tough as well as recapturing some energy when
>going down hill.

If people thought the gyroscopic effects would be hard to handle
in a car....

I suspect any large gyroscope on a mountain bike would make even
more people fly off tight turns and fail to dodge rocks in the
trail.

If you want to try out a flywheel effect, just fill your rear
tire with lead shot.  It will add plenty of inertia :-)
-- 
 Joshua_Putnam@happy-man.com    Happy Man Corp.  206/463-9399 x102
 4410 SW Pt. Robinson Rd., Vashon Island, WA  98070-7399  fax x108
 We publish SOLID VALUE for the intelligent investor.  NextMail OK
Info free; sample $20: Send POSTAL addr: Solid-Value@happy-man.com
Newsgroups: sci.energy
From: jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond)
Subject: Re: Flywheel batteries - this is really disgusting
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 92 21:18:15 GMT
Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access.  The Mouth of the South.

stead@skadi.CSS.GOV (Richard Stead) writes:

>Look what up?  The melting temperatures for ceramics?  Lots of references,
>but you don't understand the physics here.  The particles have so much
>energy that they will melt any solid in existance.  This has more to
>do with the molecular behavior of the material - the impact velocity is
>so high that the atoms are forced well beyond any sound speeds.  They
>then form a shockwave, completely disordeing the material, leaving it
>in a fluid state and creating a great deal of heat.  Just check some
>sound velocities and compare that to the velocity of the particles from the
>rotor.  That starts to give you an idea of what kind of regime we're in.

Richard,

Thanks for bringing some sanity to this disucssion.  Frankly, I've been
so sickened by the thorough ignorance of basic physics displayed in
this thread that I didn't jump in.  Your description of the knetics involved
is of course, right on the mark.

Here's another perspective.  Back in the early 70s when I was in school,
we were doing some research for NASA on micrometeor impact.  Our research
was conducted using a hydrogen gas gun we built to accelerate BB-sized 
pellets of various materials to hypersonic speeds.  A BB shot from
this gun would penetrate 18" or so of steel and leave a melted hole 
6" or so in diameter.  When it didn't penetrate, it spalled a parabolic
chunk out the other side so that a cross section of the target looked
like an hour glass.  More interesting, a pellet of plexiglass penetrated
almost as deep.  Demonstrates how much mass vs velocity (squared)
contributes to the energy.  All experiments were conducted in a high 
vacuum chamber because air friction would heat any projectile to 
incandescence practically by the time the projectile left the barrel.

We studied the impacts using photographs taken by a camera capable of
almost 20,000 frames per second and high speed air-arc lights.  The point
of impact was particularly interesting.  Practically upon the first
contact, the projectile was transformed to a glowing plasma flame.
This flame melts and shocks its way into the material.  When shooting
plexiglass targets, the shock wave could be seen forming in the 
target even without polarizers or other image enhancements.

The velocities we achieved are in the same order of magnitude as the 
peripheral velocity proposed for some of these flywheel batteries.
In my book, that makes the battery a bomb just waiting to detonate.

John
-- 
John De Armond, WD4OQC               |Interested in high performance mobility?  
Performance Engineering Magazine(TM) | Interested in high tech and computers? 
Marietta, Ga                         | Send ur snail-mail address to 
jgd@dixie.com                        | perform@dixie.com for a free sample mag
Need Usenet public Access in Atlanta?  Write Me for info on Dixie.com.
Newsgroups: sci.energy
Subject: test
From: wilma@mcl.saic.com
Date: 11 Dec 92 18:23:12 EDT

TEST.
From: ccat@netcom.com (Chris Beaumont)
Newsgroups: sci.energy
Subject: Re: Rape Oil as transport fuel
Keywords: biofuel rape transport Europe
Date: 20 Dec 92 20:00:14 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

The idea of using rapeseed oil as biofuel seems like an extremely
profitable form of technology for the US,which is a producer.This
might explain part of the controversy on rapeseed oil and soy exports
to Europe in the recent trade talks.
Lets hear more about this.
-- 
__
Chris Beaumont
ccat@netcom.com                                                         now!
Newsgroups: sci.energy
From: zlg1409@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Zhenhai Li )
Subject: Tokyo Electric
Summary: Tokyo Electric
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 16:28:16 GMT

Hello,

  Awhile ago someone posted about an electric car from Tokyo Electric.
Would the poster please put that up again? You see, I was was talking to
Jose (?) from there and he wanted to see what was said. I tried to get
it but my site dosn't save news that far back. HE was wondering why
all of the sudden he was getting ALL these calls about the car.
Ahhh, the power of internet.
Any help would be apprecated.
thanks,
Zenhi.

Newsgroups: sci.energy
From: eric14@bernina.ethz.ch (Eric Baltischwiler)
Subject: Re: Rape Oil as transport fuel
Organization: Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH), Zurich, CH
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 16:43:43 GMT

clcs26@ccsun.strath.ac.uk wrote:
: 
	[ ... ]
: 
: 	The most promising is a form of diesel derived from rape
: 	seed crops. It can be burnt in a standard diesel engine
: 	without problem and offers no lead, no sulphur dioxide,
: 	and importantly, no net CO2 production.
: 
	[ ... ]
: 
: 	The recent GATT talks are not trivial to this debate.
	[ ... ]

Your right, GATT does have a lot to do with this!  I seem to recall
reading in "The Economist" (a week or two ago) that as much energy
[read diesel fuel] is used growing, shipping and refining the oil as
is actually produced burning it.  The whole thing is powered by
subsidies to Farmers.  In a stranger then normal twist, a farmer can
classify a field of rape as not in use and collect money for letting
the land lie unused.  He can then also harvest and sell the "wild"
rape he planted...  All legally too.  I believe UK is a big producer.
Three cheers for the CAP (Common Agr. Policy??).

--

On a related issue, I heard that a HUGE Austrian train tunnel was
being planned to handle trans-alpin cargo now going by truck.  Anyone
know anything about this?

Newsgroups: sci.energy
From: morrison@cs.uiuc.edu (Vance Morrison)
Subject: Re: electric fuel gauges
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 15:24:15 GMT

sampa@microsoft.com (Sam Patton) writes:

>This may be a stupid question, but how do "fuel guages" work on electric
>vehicles?

This is actually quite a problem, and varies depending on the type of
battery.  

For lead acid batteries, there is a corelation between the drop in the 
terminal voltage and the depth of discharge.  Thus a simple volt meter
can be used.  

Ni-Metal Hydride are kind of neat, the internal pressure is a VERY 
good indicator of the state of charge.  Thus by placing a pressure 
transducer on the housing you can create a very good 'fuel guage'

Ni-Cd are the hardest.  I know of no relyable, easy measurement that
will detect the state of charge (although voltage does drop off very
near the end).   Typically what is done is to constantly measure
discharge rate, and then use that to calculate the depth of discharge.
Unfortuately, this method does not take into account the fact that
a batteries total capacity goes down as the battery ages.  Corrections
can be made (assuming all of this is done by a microprocessor anyway),
but it is never as good (and simple), as a direct reading.

Vance




Newsgroups: sci.energy,talk.environment
From: kevin@nuchat.sccsi.com (Kevin Brown)
Subject: Re: NEWS: Plutonium Ship Veers from Caribbean (20-Nov-1992)
Organization: I can't see any in the immediate vicinity...
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 23:54:33 GMT

In article <Greenpeace.10Dec1992.2311@naughty-peahen> Greenpeace via Jym Dyer <jym@mica.berkeley.edu> writes:
>[Greenpeace Press Release from Environet -- Redistribute Freely]
>
>20 November 1992
>
>        PLUTONIUM SHIP OF DEATH VEERS AWAY FROM CARIBBEAN
>
>Greenpeace announced today a Japanese ship carrying 1.7 tons
>of plutonium will not pass through the Panama Canal and will
>go around South America or Africa instead.  The Akatsuki Maru,
>carrying history's largest shipment of plutonium, is currently
>taking a southeasterly course down the mid-Atlantic and at 16:00
>GMT was located 840 nautical miles NE of Cape Sao Roque, Brazil
>and 825 nautical miles WSW of Monrovia, Liberia.
>
>Despite this momentary reprieve for the Caribbean and Panama, as
>many as four ships carrying nuclear waste from Japan to Europe
>could travel through the region during the next two months.
>
>"We are happy to report that the plutonium shipment has turned
>away from the Caribbean and no longer appears to be heading for
>the Panama Canal," said Damon Moglen of Greenpeace.  "We firmly
>believe that the public protest and political pressure from the
>region blocked this deadly shipment.

Figures.  Idiots.  The farther the ship has to travel, the higher the
probability of an accident or some other mishap occurring to the ship
(all other things being equal, of course.  One could probably argue that
passage through the Canal is safer than going around, but then one could
probably also argue the reverse).

Yet another case of NIMBY...


-- 
Kevin Brown					kevin@nuchat.sccsi.com
This is your .signature virus: < begin 644 .signature (9V]T8VAA(0K0z end >
	    This is your .signature virus on drugs: <>
			Any questions?
From: kk881595@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu (kevin knappmiller)
Subject: Re: Electric Vehicle
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 19:00:31 GMT
Reply-To: kk881595@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu
Organization: Colorado State U. Engineering College

In article <1992Dec11.173643.1@vax.sonoma.edu>, oberland@vax.sonoma.edu writes:

|> As I see it, only the problem of range is what makes them unwanted.

To me even this is not a problem.  I only drive over 100 miles per day
about once every two months and I really wouldn't mind renting a
vehicle that would be most appropriate for the particular trip,
especially after fighting with smoking engines (ring blow by)
and burning alternator belt (loose, but no noise and hard to figure
out over the engine smoking), and the blizzard (would have been
nice to have AWD).

All the other niceties of the Electric Vehicle that you mentioned
sure sound nice to me too.  In the long run I really don't see
why EV's can't be less expensive.  Mechanically they are just
so much less complex.

Kevin Knappmiller
Solar Lab
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO  80523
(303)491-8215
kk881595@longs.lance.colostate.edu
Newsgroups: sci.energy