From: brian@quake.sylmar.ca.us (Brian K. Yoder)
Subject: Re: WHAT A PEOPLE MUST DO  (was: Re: Institutional racism in education)
Organization: Quake Public Access
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 00:47:42 GMT

In article <Bz6L51.51E@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> cogsdell@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (tony c) writes:
>>In article <1992Dec11.004346.6503@samba.oit.unc.edu>, Terry.Parks@launchpad.unc.edu (Terry Parks) writes:
 
>>> All wealth opportunities which are biased on the basis of race
>>> are biased in favor in Blaks to the detriment of Caucasians. 

While it is true that all explicit legal biases are pro-black, there 
are some (though, I believe much less than many here do) private biases
which are unfair to blacks.

>>  Man you are stone mad!!!  
>>  You actually believe there are all types of opportunities for blacks in 
>>  terms of employment, education, contracts, and promotion?

If you are saying that there are no opportunities in general open to people
(blacks included), then you ought to open up any newspaper.  If you are
talking about minority set-asides and affirmative action, you should actually
READ those ads, or ANY government documents about jobs or school admission.

>> Let me share my personal experience with you and maybe we can try and figure
>> out where all my grand opportunities went, or why I was denied them.  I was 
>> born and raised in Tucson, Az. I am 30 yr. old black male. I have a B.S. 
>> degree from the local college(U of Arizona) in business admin with a major in
>> M.I.S.  Upon graduating in 1986 I worked for $4.25/hr in my field as a 
>> programmer for a 1yr. 6mo.  

Perhaps you ought to be looking for a better employer.  That's what I would
do in a case like that.

>> Positions which I was well qualified for opened
>> in the organization.  

Do you think that others might have been better qualified?  Or do you think 
that you should have been given the jobs on the basis of your skin color despite
the better qualifications of others?  Or do you think your employer is a racist
who denied your opportunity?

I would think that if the last were true you wouldn't want to work there any
longer.  I wouldn't.

>> The people leaving the positions recommended me for the
>> positions(I have letters).  I was continuously denied.  Affirmative action 
>> So now I am back in Arizona(The Racist State) working for $6.50/hr as a 
>>                              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

If it's such a racist state, why do you choose to live there?  If it's such
a racist state, why are you making more there than before?

>>  home town in my entire 25 years of living here.  
>>  Neither my brother, myself or any of our black friends have ever secured 
>>  worthwhile fulltime permanent work in this state.  All of my white friends I
>>  went to high school with have fulltime jobs in state.  

Do you think that racism is the only or the primary cause of this?

>>  Some have no H.S. 
>>  diploma and none have college degrees except me.  

I think that explains a big part of your friend's troubles.  Of the white kids
I went to high school with, most did not go to college and most are just
scraping along too.  You have to do more than just assert that this is all
just racism.

>>  Yet all have been able to 
>>  stay local and support themselves.  

If your area is so economically depressed and racist, why not consider moving
away as an improvement?  I know that if I had remained in the neighborhood
where I grew up (Poseyville Michigan (no kidding)) I wouldn't be making 
a third of what I am now.

>>  My parents have recently been 
>>  brutalized by the police in Phoenix and have had no luck in finding legal 
>>  representation for well over a year.  The cops reinjured my dads neck and 
>>  kicked my mom to the ground and said "shut up bitch".  They both have 
>>  spotless  A++ criminal records, but these are the cases you never hear about
>>  on TV or in the media.  I could go on and on, but I'm sure you get the 
>>  picture. 

Before one condemns the police as racists in a case like this, don't you
think it is important to know the context?  Had they been doing something
wrong (unlike the rest of their previous A+++ records)?  Were they mistaken
for someone else?  The evidence you presented is not convincing either way.
I am no more willing to automatically condemn the police as racists without
evidence of it than I am to condemn blacks as criminals or incompetents
without evidence.
 
>I really feel for those of you who have had to take this sh!t from  "the man".

As do I, but only is that is REALLY what it is.

>Yes,  I realize not ALL whites are racist.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Of course not.  Just out of curiosity, about what percentage would you say
are racists?

>The key to solving our problems lie in the establishment of an economic base
>in this country.  Due to the racist nature of the US, blacks will remain
>a 'subclass' as long as we are dependent on whites for our very survival.

Why do you say that?  I can see not wanting to want to make your life
dependent on RACIST whites, but what's wrong with cooperating with people
of other races who are not racists?  Likewise, do you think that "empowering"
black racists (say, like Louis Farakahn) is better than "empowering" non-racist
whites, asians, or whatever?

>What are the solutions?????????

>Education....    Education is the first step in finding the solution to
>                 any problem. (Take Asians for example) 

True enough, although this advice is applicable to anyone, not just blacks.

>Law..........    We live in a society where law will prevail. 

Indeed.  This is also something that applies to everyone, and that everyone
ought to be able to get behind, right?  More specifically though, I think
that living in a society where law prevails is not enough.  German jews lived
in a society where law prevailed, but you know what happened to them.  What
we REALLY ought to be pushing for is a society with laws which protect
the rights of individuals on an equal basis.  That includes intellectual 
rights, property rights, and rights of association, even among unpopular
minorities (such as blacks, jews, businessmen, indians, the rich, immigrants,
etc.).  If you only want "equal rights" for certain people and not for others,
you are not in favor of individual rights.  As a member of a minority, I'm
sure that you understand the necessity for the government to keep it's hands
off the rights of unpopular minorities.  I'm a member of a particularly 
unpopular minority myself...perhaps you can guess which one.
 
>Unity........    When a group of people unite(set a common goal), they succeed.

Unity with whom? Only people of your race?  Why not "unite" with ANYONE who
respects the idea of individual rights no matter what his race is?  Aren't
there blacks who are evil or stupid?  Why would you want to associate with 
those people?  There are also stupid/evil whites and stupid/evil californians?
That's why I would not want to "unite" with others on that basis.  I would
enthusiastically "unite" with others who share my ideas about politics and
business no matter what their race is.  That's what being an anti-racist is
all about. 

>Determination    Don't give up.

Again, this is good advice for anyone.  

>If you are in an area that won't allow you to succeed economically because
>of your race, spend more of your resources looking for other parts of
>the country to live/work in...  I'm not saying 'run and leave your problems 
>behind' however.   One must help thyself before s/he can help others.  When 
>you acquire the money/economic/political power needed to adress these
>situations go back home(figuratively). 

Are you saying that the purpose for "making it" is supposed to be so that you
can help others?  What about enjoying your own life?  Why should anyone want
to bother "making it" if that means giving "it" up to the people who happened
to live near you when you were growing up?

>For black(white) parents; Educate your children.

As I said, this applies to everyone, so why not join in with folks like me
who advocate this generally rather than just for members of this or that race?

>See to it they not only learn math and science well, but that they also
>learn more about the world(cultures) around them.......   

Do you really think that the reason more blacks (and others for that matter)
make less money is because they don't know enough about "world cultures"?
I certainly think that the humanities are poorly taught in schools, but I think
that a well-trained engineer who has never taken a class in history or 
geography will fare much better economically than a "black studies" major will.
(Of course, I think that a well-rounded graduate with knowledge in various
fields is better than either of these.)

>It saddens me to see that only 3% of the population of this(my) school is black,
>and of those 3% less than 1% are in math and science majors.  This is sick!!!!!

I am curious about why you feel that way.  A tiny number of the people I went
to high school with made it in college, and I am disapointed in them
personally, and in the poor education they got, but I don't attribute that to
some kind of racist conspiracy or anything like that.

>I graduated from LaSalle High in '90 with a 2.78/4.0 GPA.  I was hardly ever
>told by my mom(my dad died when I was 8)  to get good grades or to do my 
>homework.  All we where concerned with in HS was having a good time w/ friends.

I think that one's attitude in one's early education is VERY important in 
determining your eventual prospects.  Given your admitted neglect, how can
you blame racism for your problems?  Or do you?

>I really didn't think about college until my junior year; that was encouraged
>by my vocational electronics teacher and my older brother going to college.

>After my senior year I decided to accept a job with Doctronics Co.,  a
>division of Montgomery Ward Inc.,  as a state licensed electronics tech.
>I didn't have too much of a problem finding a job in South Bend In. They
>where looking for skills more than race.  After working there to save up 
>enough money, I came to Purdue to study Electrical Engineering.  I still
>have a way to go before I get my degree(MSEE) but no matter what the cost, I
>will have it.

Great!  Keep it up!

>There are obviously a lot more well educated, well to do, whites here than 
>blacks.  This I may attribute to racism(past/present).

Really?  How much?

I think that racism doesn't help whites at all!  By passing up otherwise high
quality workers, they make less money.  By preventing talented people from
achieving all they can, a racist actually hurts himself!  Of course, the
racist might not see it that way, but it's still true.  Racism DOES make
others poor, but it doesn't make the racist rich.

>Higher education and it fruits are the future for black America.

True, but that applies to everyone else qually as well.


--Brian
Xref: sparky alt.discrimination:5411 soc.culture.african.american:13147 misc.education:5459