HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: elle@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Ellen Keyne Seebacher)
Subject: Re: Bad Places to have Good Ideas
Reply-To: elle@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 21:24:51 GMT

v148rb5b@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (COLLIN MCCULLEY) writes:
>>I couldn't get out yet, I was still all soapy, and there were a few
>>parts which I hadn't done yet. I rushed through the shower as fast as
>>I could, then jumped out and dried myself quickly. I was able to get
>>to a pen and my notebook in time to write down all the ideas I had had
>>while in the shower, but it was a close thing. 
>
>Have you considered purchasing for yourself a waterproof tape
>recorder, or at least one that's moisture resistant so you can leave
>it on the bathroom countertop?  ...  When I get a musical idea while
>tooling away at the keyboard, as often as not I forget it by the next
>time if it isn't recorded.  Its the same with my writing ideas,
>although until now I haven't thought about the solution.

Okay, this gives me the opening to ask something I've been wondering
for years:  *is* there such a thing as a "waterproof tape recorder" for
use in such situations, with minimal risk of electrocution?  (I'd prefer
one useable _in_ the shower, rather than next to it.)  

I'd planned to buy one years ago as a graduation gift for my SO, a
songwriter, but audio shops assured me that there was no such beast --
and if there were, it would be really expensive and not in their
inventories.  True?  False?

I'd like to follow up on this, as my SO and I could _both_ use one.
(Note that I'm crossposting between misc.writing and rec.music.makers.)

--
Ellen Keyne Seebacher            elle@midway.uchicago.edu
  "It's not what you meant that counts.  It's what you wrote."
                --Donn Pedro, paraphrasing Clay Bond
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: cass8806@elan.glassboro.edu (KYLE CASSIDY)
Subject: Re: Help with Quoted Material
Organization: Glassboro State College, Glassboro, NJ
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 17:30:48 GMT

In article <1649@hydra.bucknell.edu> norbeck@castor.cs.bucknell.edu (nancy norbeck `93) writes:



>I'm working on a book (still mostly in the idea stage) but there
>is a quote I'd like to use by having a character say it.  I am
>presently trying to find out who said it in the first place (if I
>can't find out I won't use it) but I'd like to know how to attribute
>it.  Is it enough to just have the character say "As so-and-so said" 

you don't have to credit anybody as long as the phrase is not copywrited. 
you can say. you can also quote things that are in the public domain without 
worrying -- you can say "four score and seven years ago" all you want 
without ever bothering to mention presiden lincoln. things that people say 
are not usually copyrighted (or indeed copywriteable) -- if this were true, 
it would be nearly impossible to write a book at all. you cannot quote 
copywrited material (such as a poem) without attributing it.

>Along the same lines, there are some songs that have given me a lot
>of inspiration for this story and would make very good quotes as 
>well.  I would probably have the character be listening to the radio

if you don't know who wrote the song, a phone call to the record company is 
all that you need, although it might be easier to look first on the record 
and see who is credited with it there -- though this is not always reliable (
Led Zepplin for example, did not write "Whole Lotta Love" but they never 
bothered to mention this fact on the album) you do need the music publishers 
permission, in writing, and you do need to mention this in the frontispiece 
of your book.
From: dgoodwin@fossa.rmNUG.ORG (Doug Goodwin)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: taboo subjects?
Date: 26 Jul 92 16:23:34 GMT
Organization: Rocky Mountain NeXT Users' Group

In misc.writing article <1992Jul26.023810.1516@math.ucla.edu> you wrote:
> Has anyone else encountered what I call "taboos" either in a writing class
> or with an agent/publisher?  Are there any topics encountered by any of
> the others on this group that, by virtue (or vice) of what they are, 
> created such extremely negative response as to discourage exploration?

Cheers to you! Tell your agent to jump in the creek and take your tabu subject  
to someone with an open mind. Tabus beg to be explored, and I think you'll find  
that your work will benefit from the excitement of knowing people out there may  
find your subject heinous and depraved.

You may also find yourself at the crest of a new cultural obsession as the  
general reading public explores the tabu subject with you.

Hell, even if they hate it you have the advantage of all that bitter invective  
launched at your work. See what tabu did for James Joyce, Ana s Nin or William  
Burroughs!
From: kenpach@hpsgm2.sgp.hp.com (Ken Pachmayr)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 02:01:34 GMT
Subject: Re: technical writing jobs???
Organization: HP Singapore Notes-Server
Newsgroups: misc.writing

HI!

For those interested in technical writing, you can get the answer to those and
any other questions by contacting your local Society for
Technical Communication. If you can't find one, you might consider starting
one. You can get the information from the STC headquarters:

901 N. Stuart Street
Suite 304
Arlington, VA 22203

Phone: (703) 522-4114.

The STC is the fastest growing organization dedicated to the theory of
technical communication. They also offer student membership. The STC has over
over 15,000 members and 125 chapters worldwide.

While salary isn't the greatest, it has certainly improved in the past ten
years. Many universties and colleges now offer degree programs in technical
writing and communications. My degree is in journalism, and technical writing
has always paid better than any journalism job I had. 


ken pachmayr
technical writer
 

Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: carlos@chopin.udel.edu (Carl Poellnitz)
Subject: Men and Female Narrative Voices
Organization: University of Delaware
Distribution: global 
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 15:45:29 GMT


	Do any of the ladies out there in netland have a problem with
men telling a story from the point of view of a woman? Or would it
depend on the subject matter?


Carl Poellnitz
Qty:1
From: willo@youcon.Central.Sun.COM (Doug Willoughby  Area SE  - Midwest Area )
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Character Names
Date: 30 Jul 92 17:34:21 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems - Southfield, Michigan
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: youcon.central.sun.com

I'm in the process of writing a story about a character who is of
Belgian decent. I'm having a little trouble deciding on a surname
that sounds ethic enough for this fellow. Any suggestions?

Which brings to mind a more generic question, (along the same lines as
the recent thread about research for fiction) how does one determine
the origin of a surname? It would be a glaring error to give a Spanish
character an English surname, but subtle errors are possible and equally
annoying. Can someone recommend a reference on the subject?

Doug
Newsgroups: misc.writing,misc.education,comp.windows.misc
From: i1neal@exnet.iastate.edu (Neal Rauhauser -- )
Subject: need remedial writing software for windows
Reply-To: i1neal@exnet.iastate.edu (Neal Rauhauser -- )
Organization: Iowa State University Extension
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 04:56:01 GMT



    I am looking for a software package for microsoft windows that has some
or all of the following features:


	1. grammar check
	2. spell check
	3. identification of apparent target audience 
	4. the ability for an 'instructor' to communicate with
	   a student as they are writing


   IBM has a product called Writer's Studio. This is almost exactly
what I want, but IBM is competing on the same bid I am and is
not willing to unbundle the software from their overpriced network
server :-) They haven't got a snowball's chance in the HOT PLACE
of getting this deal after their past behavior at the site in question
but we are about to see a six figure number of your tax dollars blown 
to bits if I don't find something soon. Any sort of writing-assistant
program would be of interest ...

           Thanks for your time,


			Neal
--
The list of extremely cool things (4/22/92):king sized waterbeds, harleys
with springer frontends, OS/2 2.0 EE, railguns for space exploration,
black cats, Freak Week Catnip T-shirts, Abraxas, Titus Livius' 'The
History of Rome' (all 142 volumes!), SGI Indigos, Road Runners ...
From: pww@bnr.ca (Peter Whittaker)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: Reserach in Fiction
Date: 21 Jul 92 14:17:28 GMT
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa

In article <1992Jul20.175859.571@HQ.Ileaf.COM> hal@HQ.Ileaf.COM (Hal Wadleigh) writes:
>One example of a "howler" is the use of parsecs as a unit of time in Star Wars.

That's fine:  all units of distance are acceptable as units of time as
well.  It is perfectly legitimate for me to say "See you in 90
gigametres"; you might have difficulty figuring out that I mean "See
you in 5 minutes", but that is something we'd have to work out.

How do 90 Gm and 5 min equate?

speed of light (c) = 3x10e08 m/s

5 min * 60s/min = 300 s

300 s x c = 90 x 10e09 m = 90 Gm.

The real howler in Star Wars was that they probably used "parsec" to
mean a fairly short time;  a parsec is just over 3 years long.

pww
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: ramirez@julia.math.ucla.edu (Alice Ramirez)
Subject: taboo subjects?
Organization: UCLA Mathematics Department
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 92 02:38:10 GMT

Awhile back, I wrote a book length manuscript that contained a romantic
love theme involving a physically disabled woman and an ablebodied man.

My agent's response was extremely, EXTREMELY negative.  To quote him,
"One doesn't write romance novels involving crippled heroines."  This
response troubled me at the time and troubles me to this day, not only because
my consciousness had been raised on this particular subject but because
the whole issue of taboo subjects annoys.  Obviously a writer can write
anything she or he damn well pleases, but if the writer cannot get published
because of prejudices, such writing becomes little more than something to pass
the time.

This is, at least in my case, more than idle inquiry.  I had considered this my
best, or at very least most socially relevant works;  my agent's response
was devastating, I was unable to find another agent to handle this, editors of
my acquaintance were uncomfortable with this topic and the result of all this
is that my talent, or whatever you may call it, seems to have congealed.  I
have drifted away from fiction and work now in another, unrelated field.  What
writing I still do and get published is fundamentally non-fiction, on horti-
culture.

Has anyone else encountered what I call "taboos" either in a writing class
or with an agent/publisher?  Are there any topics encountered by any of
the others on this group that, by virtue (or vice) of what they are, 
created such extremely negative response as to discourage exploration?
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: norbeck@castor.cs.bucknell.edu (nancy norbeck `93)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: How long to wait for outside opinions?
Date: 24 Jul 92 20:53:05 GMT
Organization: Bucknell University, Lewisburg, Pa.


I've just begun work on a new project, and I'm facing the question
I always seem to confront at about this point:  How long should I
wait before I show it to someone else to get their input?  Years
ago I would generally show whatever I'd written to someone else
almost immediately after writing it, but I seem to recall hearing
recently that waiting a while is a better idea.  (But then, this
may all be relative to the individual writer...)

Any suggestions?


Thanks..

Nancy
--
|Nancy Norbeck       | "I know that look."  "What look?"  "The look that says |
|....................|  you're going to be impetuous, vengeful, irresponsible,|
|norbeck@bucknell.edu|  and *stupid*!" --Lady Jane and Lovejoy, "Death and    |
|....................|     Venice"                                            |
Newsgroups: misc.writing,news.answers
From: daveg@ee.ubc.ca (Dave Gagne)
Subject: Re: Bad Places to have Good Ideas
Organization: University of BC, Electrical Engineering
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 17:08:19 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.160156.22858@linus.mitre.org> cgates@mitre.org (Curt Gates) writes:
>In article <1992Jul23.171106.17913@ee.ubc.ca> daveg@ee.ubc.ca (Dave Gagne) 
>writes:
>> I was
>> getting pretty worried about how I was going to remember all this good
>> stuff. I tried desperately to curb the flow of ideas, lest I lose
>> *all* of them before I could get out of the shower
>
>What! You mean you didnt run out into the street nude and ask passers by 
>for a pencil? 

I was gonna do that, but I live in a quiet neighborhood, and there
aren't many people wandering the streets with pencils & paper.

>Seriously, dont worry. The ideas will still be there. You may not be able 
>to access them exactly when you want them, but they are still there, 
>getting better all the time.  Consider this part of your mind a friend you 
>can trust, not a messenger who will vanish when you grab a towel.

Hmph. I've lost too many ideas in the shower to believe this. I get
distracted too easily in there, especially when the hot water suddenly
runs out...

>If the ideas were coming as images, rather than words, you only need to 
>intensify the images, enhancing the colors, shapes, and detail.

Tried that before too. The problem with that is that the idea(s)
keep expanding and expanding. I have come close to plotting entire stories
in the shower, but by the time I get to the end of the story, I have
forgotten the beginning.

Dave
-- 
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|  Dave Gagne.              | UBC VLSI Lab                                  |
|  daveg@ee.ubc.ca          | University of British Columbia, Vancouver, BC |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: spare@romulus.rutgers.edu (Joshua Spare)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: Switch in p.o.v./time period
Date: 22 Jul 92 03:14:00 GMT
Organization: Rutgers University

I have always found that a change in point of view is one way to signal the
difference in the time periods.  It would be a refresher to the reader to
switch points of view once and a while.  Don't do it too often because it will confuse the reader.

Alas, I am unpublished....so take it for what its worth....

-- 
Go, write it in a martial hand, be curst and brief.  It is no matter how
witty, so it be eloquent and full of invention.  Taunt him with the license
of ink.						Twelfth Night (III.ii.42-45)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: plp1@Ra.MsState.Edu (pat parker)
Subject: Re: HELP!!! Writer's Block!!!
Organization: Mississippi State University
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 16:27:57 GMT

mtan@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Maureen Tan) writes:

>First you gather your materials:  chicken wire, lots of newspaper, a gallon
>of homemade glue.  Then you begin to build a large paper mache dragon...

this is wonderful.  it's been years since i've thought about paper mache'
dragons!  it used to be a popular motif in childrens' literature - maybe it
still is but i've just been distanced from it.

the world needs more paper mache' dragons.

but back to the subject - writer's block. (if this group has a faql, this
question really should be in it)

as others have suggested, read.  feed your brain.  read something you dont
normally read.  read newspapers.  read personal ads.  read people/enquirer mags.

there are other ways to feed the brain.  listen to some music that you're not
familiar with.  watch a tv doccumentary.  rent a movie (one with some actual
content in it)

yer hedbone's connected to your neckbone. yer neckbone's connected to...
do something physical instead of mental for a while.  take a hot shower(as was
earlier suggested)  take a walk(also someone else's idea)  do something to 
get your blook flowing and breathing hard.

my personal cure for writer's block is to start with an outline.  at first
it is pretty general.  as i begin writing it gets more concrete.  if i get
stumped, i pick a character and write some notes about him/her what turns them
on? why exactly do they act the way they do?  what was their childhood like
(if they're a child, what will their adulthood be like as a result of the 
events in your story?)

also you can flesh in the outline itself when you get stumped.  take each 
general entry in the section of outline you're working on and turn it into
five more specific outline enrties.  continue this until the outline itself
is almost the story.

another idea is to type junk.  just get your brain in gear and go somewhere
ie: as i sit here, the quick brown fox jumping over and over in my mind, 
thinking about thinking, there is a knock.  is it inside or outside my mind?
what ho! it's inside my mind.  "who is it," i call...

if you really want to work on your story andonly have 5 pages left,
type 20 pages of stream of consciousness content for the story then come back
later and edit it.  if you dont feel like working on the story, type tripe.


pat
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: schiles@martini.us.oracle.com (Suzanne Chiles)
Subject: Re: taboo subjects?
Reply-To: schiles@martini.us.oracle.com (Suzanne Chiles)
Organization: Oracle Corp., Redwood Shores CA
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 17:29:55 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

I am disheartened to hear of your agent's response to your romantic
story about a woman
in a wheelchair.  I thought we were long past our fears of differently abled 
people, but I suppose we aren't.  

However, there is a much wider acceptance of such stories in the lesbian
community.
While I have not seen (yet) any book-length treatments, I have seen
several short
stories with a similar theme, and found them well-written and
enlightening.  And
romantic.  All of this without the author trying to extract pity from
the reader.

Hopefully, the heterosexual community will follow suite soon.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Suzanne Chiles				Yes, there are my opinions.
schiles@us.oracle.com			No, they aren't those of Oracle.
					Yes, you are most welcome to them.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: bf455@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Bonita Kale)
Subject: Re: Point of view (was Genre)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 11:50:16 GMT




In a previous article, jim@thinkage.on.ca (James Alan Gardner) says:

>Readers tend to center themselves in the viewpoint character.

...
>
>As for the question of whether men have trouble with female
>viewpoint characters or vice versa...I think people can accept
>any viewpoint character until the character deviates strongly
>from their own "world".


A good posting, from which I have quoted only a few lines.

I don't think the situation is symmetrical for men and women.  I think
women have an easier time identifying with men than vice versa, since we
live in a world in which "male" tends to equate with "human".

Not that this is a reason not to use female POV!

Indeed, those men who assume male viewpoint may find themselves soon
outnumbered by the kids growing up, who are used to female viewpoint.  They
used to say boys wouldn't read books with a girl main character, but more
and more boys seem to be reading _A Wrinkle In Time_ and other female POV books.


Bonita Kale
From: mapd1@syma.sussex.ac.uk (Nigel Ling)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: taboo subjects?
Date: 29 Jul 92 11:35:27 GMT
Organization: University of Sussex

In article <1992Jul26.023810.1516@math.ucla.edu> ramirez@julia.math.ucla.edu (Alice Ramirez) writes:
>Awhile back, I wrote a book length manuscript that contained a romantic
>love theme involving a physically disabled woman and an ablebodied man.
>
>My agent's response was extremely, EXTREMELY negative.  To quote him,
>"One doesn't write romance novels involving crippled heroines."  This
>response troubled me at the time and troubles me to this day, not only because
>my consciousness had been raised on this particular subject but because
>the whole issue of taboo subjects annoys.  Obviously a writer can write
>anything she or he damn well pleases, but if the writer cannot get published
>because of prejudices, such writing becomes little more than something to pass
>the time.

This sounds like a disheartening experience to say the least. 
Am I right in thinking, however, that this agent deals in "romance"
novels of the Mills and Boon variety? If that is the case then anything
which smacks of real life would be anathema to your agent.

If you are writing serious fiction, and by that I mean anything which
is not specifically aimed at the pulp market, you have to go to a
publisher who publishes serious fiction. Now I can't say I know
anything about the US market, but no doubt it is extremely difficult to
get this sort of writing published. Certainly in the UK publishing is
geared more to the sort of pap of airport bookshops; and, without
wishing to be offensive, it strikes me that the problem is even worse
in America.


>This is, at least in my case, more than idle inquiry.  I had considered this my
>best, or at very least most socially relevant works;  my agent's response
>was devastating, I was unable to find another agent to handle this, editors of
>my acquaintance were uncomfortable with this topic and the result of all this
>is that my talent, or whatever you may call it, seems to have congealed.  I
>have drifted away from fiction and work now in another, unrelated field.  What
>writing I still do and get published is fundamentally non-fiction, on horti-
>culture.

Well, it seems an uphill battle to get any fiction published, especially
the literary variety. But please don't give up. If you feel your work is
good keep at it. It's not your fault that most of the stuff that sells
is complete drivel. Your agent was either only speaking from the
saleability viewpoint, or doesn't know what the hell he's talking
about.

Nigel
From: ts@cup.portal.com (Tim W Smith)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: Help with Quoted Material
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 00:46:19 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: na

> I'm working on a book (still mostly in the idea stage) but there
> is a quote I'd like to use by having a character say it.  I am
> presently trying to find out who said it in the first place (if I
> can't find out I won't use it) but I'd like to know how to attribute
> it.  Is it enough to just have the character say "As so-and-so said" 
> (or something similar to that), or is there some other way I need to
> document it.  And do I need to get permission from a publisher or

I would think that it would depend on the quote.  No one would say
"As Shakespeare said, 'To be or not to be.'"  Most people would
just say "To be or not to be," probably in a dramatic sounding
voice.

Hence, it seems that you would want to write something like:

	Speaking dramatically, Tom quoted Shakespeare: "To be
	or not to be."

On the other hand, if the quote is from someone obscure, a speaker
might say "As so-and-so said, 'An abnormally small penis is indicative of
a clitoris.'" [That's a real quote, by the way, found while browsing in
a bookstore -- ten points to the first person to identify it.]

--Tim Smith