From: gdb15@grebe.cl.cam.ac.uk (Guy Barry)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Sexual consent (Was: Roy's "consenting" slave)
Date: 20 Dec 92 21:11:01 GMT
Reply-To: gdb15@cl.cam.ac.uk
Organization: U of Cambridge Computer Lab, UK

In article <1992Dec20.195448.27957@dcs.qmw.ac.uk> arodgers@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Angus H Rodgers) writes:

[an excellent posting about his experience of abuse]

What I find shocking about society's attitudes towards sexual abuse of
men by women is that in general neither sex is prepared to acknowledge
its reality.  I've known men to laugh at such stories (the general
attitude apparently being that men should want sex 100% of the time,
so who'd pass up such an opportunity?).  I have a feeling that such
incidents may be far more widespread than anyone is prepared to admit.

>I agree about the need for "re-education" of both parties in such
>transactions.
>
>I, in particular, need to learn not to be such a wimp.
>
>But who is there to teach that sort of lesson? (The answer,
>"psychotherapists", won't wash: because, from my extensive
>experience of such people, the pun on the word "the-rapist"
>is spot-on.)

No, don't make the mistake of thinking that psychotherapists are any
use whatsoever in helping people to gain confidence.  My experience of
them is that they're usually pretty insecure people themselves and all
too often end up exploiting the very weaknesses that people want to
deal with.  (Disclaimer: I'm sure there are exceptions, etc., etc.)

>But bad things don't happen to collectives, they happen to individuals.

Everyone who identifies with an oppressed group, however legitimate
their cause, should be periodically reminded of this sentence!

[quoting himself:]

>I don't interrupt anybody (well, hardly). If you knew me in person (yes,
>I know that you are confusing me with the person who wrote the words
>above, but I must still reply to your attack on me personally) you would
>know me as an *extremely* silent, depressed, and self-effacing person,
>who is always *being* interrupted -- by men more than by women, as a rule --
>[...] when feminists complain -- in their typically generalised and
>indiscriminate terms -- about the way "men" treat "women" in
>conversation, I recognise a *precise* description of *my own*
>experiences of being ignored, interrupted, shouted down, mis-
>interpreted, having my words taken and twisted into unrecognisable
>meanings, and so on. And these same bigoted feminists make it very clear
>that they are not the slightest bit interested in the painful reality
>of the experiences of *this particular man*. And their own verbal
>behaviour matches, and even exceeds, in its atrocious stupidity and
>irrationality, the worst of which men are capable.

Well, I do interrupt people (though not maliciously, I hope!), and I'm
usually neither silent, depressed nor self-effacing, but I recognize
that behaviour as well.  A lot of people don't seem to be able to
adjust their behaviour to fit the situation; if your intention is to
develop a supportive atmosphere, but other people persist in trying to
score points, it can be mindblowingly frustrating.

>My apologies go to anyone I might hurt or offend unintentionally.

If anyone feels hurt or offended by your posting then they've
radically misunderstood it (and probably don't want to understand it).


--
Guy Barry, University of Cambridge | Phone: +44 (0)223 334757 
Computer Laboratory                | Fax: +44 (0)223 334678
New Museums Site, Pembroke Street  | JANET: Guy.Barry@uk.ac.cam.cl 
Cambridge CB2 3QG, England, UK     | Internet: Guy.Barry@cl.cam.ac.uk 
Newsgroups: soc.bi