HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ferdi@cgrg.ohio-state.edu (Ferdi Scheepers)
Subject: Re: TODAY IN AFRICA.
Organization: OSU Advanced Computing Center for the Arts and Design
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 22:49:00 GMT

In article <1992Nov19.145754.10848@cbnewse.cb.att.com> ronaldd@cbnewse.cb.att.com (ronald.h.davis) writes:
>as far as north america goes i think that people don't think of n.a. as being
>a single country, when people want to refer to the u.s. specifically they
>either refer to it as 'america', or 'the states'. 

Or, if you're a baseball player, 'the world' :-)

---------------------------
 Ferdi Scheepers                                                      
 ferdi@cgrg.ohio-state.edu
 The Ohio State University
---------------------------

-- 
---------------------------
 Ferdi Scheepers                                                      
 ferdi@cgrg.ohio-state.edu
 The Ohio State University
From: jnr@igc.apc.org (Jim Rosenfield)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: fingering
Date: 21 Nov 92 02:53:00 GMT
Nf-ID: #R:1992Nov20.090927.4593@shannon.ee:-312408195:cdp:1471700264:000:104
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!jnr    Nov 20 18:53:00 1992


re: fingering people on the net.....

could you please say exactly what you mean by "fingering" please?
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: linda@frcs.Alt.ZA (Linda Jacobson)
Subject: A reason for killing [Was Re: Kalla Botha on Ferdi Barnard 
Organization: Onderstepoort School of Veterinary Science, University of Pretoria
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 21:02:52 GMT

It takes quite a lot to shock us scandal-hardened types down here,
since revelation after revelation, killing after killing, has become
almost a way of life. But this morning's news was something else:

Ferdi Barnard's "handler" reports behind closed doors that the reason
David Webster died was so that Barnard could show the CCB that he was of
some use to them and should enjoy continued employment in the
organisation. It's hard to swallow. It's hard to imagine a more empty
way for someone to die. I can only begin to imagine the depth of pain
that this whole affair has caused for the people who loved David
Webster.

Enough is enough.

Linda
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Linda Jacobson				'That's fine, boy, never mind
Department of Medicine			 the tulips.'
Faculty of Vet Science			     
Onderstepoort, South Africa			(Hunter S. Thompson)
From: pmmst8+@pitt.edu (Paul M Mweene)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Aur Revoir Linda Jacobson
Date: 16 Nov 92 05:57:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: blue.9705
Organization: University of Pittsburgh
Originator: pmmst8@unixd1.cis.pitt.edu

I have received notice that, henceforth, I am being lopped off the list of 
those who are priviledged enough to be known by Linda Jacobson. I am to i
mmediately be consigned to the realm of the ignored and despised.

Well, I wish to let all know that I will be in plentiful company. By so 
categorising me, Linda has merely 'relegated' me to the same status as the 
the oppressed, voiceless black South African majority. And because my crimes
were to agitate for Africans in South Africa to be allowed to post on the 
net and for foreigners to keep out of our culture, I now have this dubious 
honor of being 'killed' by this person.

Lest we lose sight of the issues let me begin by saying that I subscribe ful
ly to the maxim that 'charity begins at home'. I cannot  believe that Linda
Jacobson loved me when her actions implied an antipathy for those in her coun
try whose only wrong was to be black and African like me. I have never acted
for the purpose of securing personal  gain or the adulation of white South
Africa.

And since, this current racial comflict was never precipitated by I or any
other African, I an justified to do what ever I feel inclined to do. I ,un
like Nelson Mandela, would never ever attempt to appease a miniscule minori
ty by addressing it in its langauge.

So Linda you can definitely go. I will not miss your ostentatious 'friend
ship'.


makala
From: cscoging@unpcs1.cs.unp.ac.za (Chris Scogings)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Is racism "for whites only"?
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 09:19:29 GMT
Organization: Dept. Computer Science, UNP
NNTP-Posting-Host: pc092.cc.unp.ac.za

Paul M Mweene writes (after some provocation):

>What are you doin in Africa? if you come form europe.

I don't come from Europe.  I happen to have a white skin, but I am an 
African.  I was born in Africa.  My parents were born in Africa.  My grand
parents were born in Africa. etc.  True, as far as we can work out, somebody
came from Europe, France to be exact, round about 1760.

Ok, so I come from Europe because my family moved to Africa in 1760.  This 
means at least half of all so-called Americans are also Europeans or Asians.
Do you call your American colleagues Europeans or Asians?

As much as you may hate to admit it, you and I have far more in common than
black Americans who like to call themselves African, but know nothing about 
Africa.  We are Africans.  They are not.


Never try to teach a pig to sing
It wastes your time and annoys the pig
                               - Robert Heinlein
From: afv@uk.ac.cam.eng (Frans)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Makala & Co ! Howdy.
Date: 16 Nov 92 17:19:39 GMT
Reply-To: afv@uk.ac.cam.eng
Organization: cam.eng

Good day !

I mailed a nice long letter to you guys, but seeing as though it failed
to appear on s.c.a, I'll give it another (abbreviated) shot.


As a reader of s.c.a. who has a lot of fun reading what the learned
gentleman (Makala, Kauta ..) from the States have to say, I would like
to ask them a few questions.  Obviously direct answers would be
appreciated, but if you feel my questions are limiting, please feel
free to extend your reply.

Here goes (To Makala):

1. What is your general opinion about white (non-blak) people living in
Africa (not only in SA, but also Zim, Namibia etc).  Do you regard them
as Africans ?

2. I would like to assume that you are as concerned about a better
future for the African Countries as anyone else reading s.c.a.  What
then would you  propogate as a first priority amongst Africans & the
rest of the world to improve the standards of living in Africa ? I know
there are many/many/many problems, but I would like to know what _you_
think the single most important issue is.  If you'd rather treat Africa
in its different regions, please do so - it will give me an even better
picture of what we'll be talking about.

The first question is just to help me get a common terminology when we
have a chat in the future. No. 2 is just to define a clear point for
future discussions.  It is hard to jump into the centre of a(nother)
UCT-Admin is or is not one and the same thing as BOSS dicussion ! 
Let us get an interesting topic that deserves intellectual discussions
going.

(For one, I find Kauta's search into the structure of semihereditary
orders facinating.  What does it mean ? - for my friend on  624
E. 3rd :-))


I also read that you have at least 20 personal letters per day to reply
to, hence I resort to s.c.a. for this discussion.


Keep well, and looking forward to your reply.

Frans (yips, Mgangan where I grew up)
From: pmmst8+@pitt.edu (Paul M Mweene)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: POLYGAMY: GOOD OR BAD???? (Was: Walt Mweene Disney does UCT
Date: 24 Nov 92 01:29:52 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <1992Nov23.164831.19499@cs.wayne.edu> faa@athena.cs.wayne.edu (Felicitas A. Atabong) writes:
>>
>Just out of curiousity, how will polygamy stop prostitution in Africa?
>Do women practice prostitution because they can't find a man to marry?
>
>Feli.


I can see what you are both saying. Essencially, prostitution in the tradition
context is only possible in the extremely rare circumstance that an grown up
woman is not married in Africa. The issue is how ever wider than that, infact
some married people have practised prostitution with and without the consent
of their husbands. Clearly polygammy by reducing the pool of uncommitted 
grown women goes a long way to reducing prostitution.

makala
From: hllhar01@uctvax.uct.ac.za
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: GAY AFRICANS AGAIN PAUL
Date: 21 Nov 92 14:39:31 GMT
Article-I.D.: uctvax.1992Nov21.123931.203298
Organization: University of Cape Town



Paul M Mweene writes:
 
> The subject is sensitive only to the extent that Africans consider the 
> practise abhorrent and anathema.

Are you speaking for your UCT contacts as well, Paul?

> Fear not, as I have totally no desire to 
> have men as nything other friends

"Friends" is perhaps a little ambitious in the above context, eh Paul? Wouldn't
"acquaintances" fit your sentence better?

> which incidentally in the only way of 
> relating to men known and acceptable to me.
> 
> As for the question of sampling Africans, I meant that I have discussed any 
> and all issues with enough of them. And more than that I have grown up among 
> them and consequently consider me to know us inside out.

Sure Paul, sure...


Hardy
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: mukasa@panix.com (Michael Mukasa)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Gay AFRICANS OSELE
Date: 21 Nov 92 19:02:58 GMT
Organization: Panix, NYC

In <1992Nov20.221753.17047@nas.nasa.gov> bross@splatter.nas.nasa.gov (Wilson S. Ross) writes:

>In article <1992Nov19.164529.18320@panix.com>, mukasa@panix.com (Michael Mukasa) writes:
>|> In <Bxtz7r.Ht9@acsu.buffalo.edu> osele@acsu.buffalo.edu (itiakorit j osele) writes:
>|> 
>|> 
>|> >The point here really is if homosexuality is there, give us the
>|> >evidence of its' existence, not making unwieldly statement like you did
>|> 
>|> >Itiakorit
>|> 
>|> You have hit the nail on the head.  I have come to believe that these
>|> people cannot believe that because a disgusting and 'sick' vice is
>|> prevelant and growing in their society, 

> If I was a gay African, what 
>would I gain from telling Kiggundu about it?    -Bill Ross


My sincere pity for you and your famiily.

Kiggundu.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: barnhart@ddsw1.MCS.COM (Mr. Aaron Barnhart)
Subject: IPS:ANGOLA: Government denounces UNITA's secret coup plans
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 23:16:27 GMT
Organization: Evanston, Illinois, U.S.A.

Copyright Inter Press Service 1992, all rights reserved.  Permission to re-
print within 7 days of original date only with permission from 'newsdesk'.

Title: ANGOLA: Government denounces UNITA's secret coup plans


lisbon, nov 11 (ips) -- the angolan government in luanda has made
public documents and letters which according to officials indicate
the opposition union for total independence of angola (unita) were
prepared ''to make an assault on the government''.

portuguese correspondents in angola on wednesday reported the
publication of ''letters and other documents which reveal the
intention of expelling the ruling popular movement for the
liberation of angola (mpla) from several regions of the country''.

in a letter addressed to unita leader jonas savimbi printed in
the 'jornal de angola', abel chivukuvuku, responsible for unita's
international relations, wrote ''the world must know that we are
heading for a new war''.

another message from the leader salupeto pena, who was killed in
the fighting in luanda 10 days ago, counsels savimbi ''to retake
villages and towns in the interior, because our claims of election
frauds will not get us anywhere''.

in the sept. 29 general elections the mpla defeated unita by a
wide margin, a fact which was not accepted by savimbi, despite the
international acceptance of the results.

he charged the government with holding fraudulent elections, and
international observers with ''selling out for diamonds'' to the
mpla, and threatened to resume the war.

the angolan paper published extracts from the personal diary of
unita vice-president, jeremias chitunda, who was killed in street
fighting in luanda.

in a passage from his diary chitunda said: ''the soldiers of the
fala (armed forces for the liberation of angola), the military arm
of unita, are frustrated by the absence of war and want to
reinforce their military positions.

''in luanda there is too much peace,'' concluded the extract from
chitunda's personal diary, written two weeks ago before the
beginning of the battle for the capital, which left more than
1,500 people dead.

in the meantime, the  under-secretary general of the united
nations, marrack goulding, held a meeting on tuesday with savimbi,
with no result so far revealed.

the portuguese army high command has described as ''very
animated'' the situation in the interior of angola, basing its
information on reports from pilots of the hercules c-130 transport
planes which flew over the territory in evacuating portuguese
citizens from the war zone. (end/ips/ip//trd/md/ego/tt/mf/92)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: bak@fraser.sfu.ca (Jason Bak)
Subject: Traveling Africa
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 01:37:47 GMT

	I've always had the urge to visit Africa.  I'm a Canadian who
has travelled quite a bit, yet I've never landed up in Africa.  I've
placed it on my list of Places That I Want to Go and was curious about
how Africans view Canadians, particularly those of you who live in
South Africa.  Right now I'm 19 years old and a university student and
there is a chance that I may participate in an Archaeology field
school somewhere in Africa, if I play my cards right.  It would not be
for a few years, but I'm still curious about your present attitudes.
Write me.

-- 
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
        =-= Jason Bak =-=
   
   * Applied Physics Major
   * Archaeology Minor
   * All around god-like being
   * bak@sfu.ca

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
From: hardy@elc.mth.uct.ac.za (Hardy Hulley)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Just a repression (was Re: Just a thought - [subject deleted]
Date: 22 Nov 92 20:47:43 GMT
Article-I.D.: ucthpx.1992Nov22.204743.28725
Organization: University of Cape Town
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

barnhart@ddsw1.mcs.com (Mr. Aaron Barnhart) writes:
: nevin@iguana.cis.ohio-state.edu (Nick) wrote:
: :
: :In article <BxxrLD.CMu@ddsw1.mcs.com> barnhart@ddsw1.mcs.com (Mr.
: :Aaron Barnhart) writes:
: :
: :> And I would simply add that Mr. Wohlberg understands what SA's version
: :> of "freedom of speech" is -- by immediately clamping arbitrary unfreedoms
: :> onto it -- and that makala has joyously embraced the American version,
: :> freedom unconditionally, that reflects the best of what this country has
: :          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ?
: :> to offer.
: :> 
: :
: :And what you would simply add is simply bullshit. Even in the United States
: :there are certain restrictions on speech.
: 
: 
: Depends on your vision, Mr. Hothead.  I just finished reading Nat Hentoff's
: _Free Speech for Me -- But Not for Thee_, his new book.  Hentoff certainly
: doesn't believe there are "certain restrictions on speech" at least not so
: far as I can tell. 

It's quite obvious that there should be limitations placed upon what people 
may say - shouting "FIRE" in a crowded cinema, for example, is a distinct 
no-no. Anybody who supports unqualified freedom of speech is simply foolish.

: And you don't see makala holding back either, whereas his predators would
: seem to be saying, if only we had your chain to yank over here, pal,
: you wouldn't be allowed to post your rubbish.

Oh toad-crap! Nobody is in the least interested to inhibit Mweene's freedom of
expression - personally I find reading his stuff a wonderfully humerous way to
start every day. Unfortunately, however, Paul isn't simply exercising free 
speech, he's indulging in libel, and in America (just as here) there are strong
laws designed combat such behaviour.  
 
: Rubbish or not, politically correct or not, it should be expressed in
: America, regardless.  If you see that fine ideal being ground into
: "bullshit," well then do something about it.

Perhaps Mweene should entertain us all with a long (and obviously fictional)
diatribe about your personal life. It would be interesting to see how long
your peculiar interpretation of freedom of speech persists - not very long I 
suspect, but then you Yanks do change your minds ever so often.
  
: I am re-posting this to alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk for starters.

You could embarress yourself if anybody there knows anything about free speech!
 
: Aaron
From: blda@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: RE: MILLIONS OF GIRLS BRUTALLY..MEGANA
Date: 16 Nov 92 17:00:27 -0500

BRAVO!!!





Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: gds@casper.cs.uct.ac.za (Riel Smit)
Subject: Re: AFRICA'S BLEAK FUTURE
Keywords: Africa's future
Reply-To: gds@cs.uct.ac.za
Organization: Computer Science Department, University of Cape Town
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 07:44:32 GMT

P.TENGENDE@cowan.edu.au wrote:
>your general assumption that "our situation has collapsed", will not find a lot
>of sympathisers on the group for the simple reason that we cannot be expected
>to shoulder all the blame for our current state of affairs when we know that
>those who are responsible for it in the first place are trying to walk away
>Scott-free.

Isn't this to a large degree our problem in Africa - wanting others to fix
things?  Yes, they broke it (for the most part), but should we not rather
spend our energies in fixing it and ensuring that "the outsiders" would not
be able to break it again, rather than getting than constantly wanting them
to fix it when they probably won't fix it the right way anyway?  We
Africans should sort solve our own problems (we can't do it totally on our
own - the world is too much of a global village already) and only then,
from a position of equality (or even superiority) we can look the rest of
the world straight in the eye and say "and what are you now going to do
about the mess you made and we cleaned up?"  We would then also be in a
position to get them to do something.

You are right, Africans should not shoulder all the blame for our state of
affairs, but if you expect anyone else to do something about it, I am
afraid, you have a long wait coming.

>I believe that at the end of the day, education of the masses is what will
>provide sustainable development. We need to instill , from grassroot levels
>a sense of pride and confidence into our people. We need to basically develop
>a philosophy that encourages everybody to play a part. 

I agree 100%.  This pride and confidence will only be there if we take the
approach of "yes, they messed things up, they think we are useless, but let
them go along their foolish ways - we will make things right our way and we
will show them how it should be done."
-- 
Riel Smit,  Computer Science                              gds@cs.uct.ac.za
University of Cape Town                      gds%cs.uct.ac.za@rain.psg.com
From: cscoging@unpcs1.cs.unp.ac.za (Chris Scogings)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Linda Jacobson's kill file
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 09:40:54 GMT
Organization: Dept. Computer Science, UNP
NNTP-Posting-Host: pc092.cc.unp.ac.za

>I've had enough. You are about to have the dubious honour of being put
>in my kill file. The only other person who lives there Jack
>Schmidling, a neo-nazi whose racist rantings I couldn't stomach
>either. I'm sure the two of you will get on just fine.

I thought Gavan was in your kill file?


Never try to teach a pig to sing
It wastes your time and annoys the pig
                               - Robert Heinlein
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: pmmst8+@pitt.edu (Paul M Mweene)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Of Desparation and Paranoia
Date: 17 Nov 92 08:34:05 GMT
Article-I.D.: blue.9763
Organization: University of Pittsburgh
Originator: pmmst8@unixd2.cis.pitt.edu



Many people who know me emailed and phoned to advise me to quit these 
discussions. I heede their advice, at least until 	I saw the per
son ahllucinating that I am white man called Mc Intosh. This is a 
desparate ridiculous attempt to divert attention from the issues. 

Assuming that I was the white student you claim I am, then all black
people have a staunch ally who will fight his kind to secure the real
and justified freedom which they are entitled to. If I was a black man
I would welcome a white man who as consistently as Makala Mweene has 
espoused the correct issues for his race.     

But I leave you to believe what you want. Infact I am a one eyed three
legged man from Venus who eats white flesh. 

Now will you allow black students at UCT, WIT and other instutions to
post on the net? I fyou don't then you are worse than the three legged
one eyeed cannibal from Venus.

makala

 the green one eyed cannibal from Venus.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: ccsmcs@cd4380.ufh.ac.za (Mark Stobbs)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Scandal(s) of the day
Date: 17 Nov 92 08:31:57 GMT
Organization: University of Fort Hare, Alice, Ciskei

In <1992Nov15.175156.19637@frcs.Alt.ZA> linda@frcs.Alt.ZA (Linda Jacobson) writes:

>De Klerk's strategies are malevolent and clever. In the past it was
>pretty easy to know exactly what was what, and who stood where: PW was
>at least pretty straightforward about his approach - there was no
>question that he was a "bad guy". FW, on the other hand, cleverly
>manages to cloud a number of issues. His commissions of enquiry seem
>central to the myth that he is interested in seeing justice done. My
>impression is that the commissions are essentially a smokescreen for
>"business as usual". Have you noticed:  

>(a) the timing of these reports (particularly re publication)? 
>(b) the ratio of media coverage to action taken against people and 
>    institutions implicated?
>(c) the fact that their existence doesn't stop the same kinds of practices 
>    from continuing?

>The problem is that some people have been convinced that De Klerk is a
>statesman and an honest broker, and they want to believe it, and his
>smooth publicity helps perpetuate the myth. I don't think there's any
>question any more about the dishonesty of his politics, or their
>cynicism.

I agree whole heartedly with this statement.

>The good news - his term of office expires in 1994, so he has to do
>something about an interim government before then.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there a little clause somewhere in the
constitution that says under certain cercumstances the President can close
down Parliament and then decide on some future date for an elections?
Shutting down Parliament would be business as usual for the Nats - with their
majority and the President's Council they do whatever they like anyway.
-- 
                _________________________________________
               |  Mark Stobbs    ccsmcs@cd4380.ufh.ac.za |
               |          Computer Centre                |
               |  University of Fort Hare, South Africa  |