From: gedge@cm.cf.ac.uk (Geraint A Edwards)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Two Celtic cultures
Date: 14 Apr 92 13:13:05 GMT
Organization: I'm at, not speaking for: Uni of Wales, College of Cardiff
X-Mailer: Cardiff Computing Maths PP Mail Open News Gateway

gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary L. Newell) writes:
} gedge@cm.cf.ac.uk (Geraint A Edwards) writes:
} > It's a shame you found this offensive enough to reply like this.
} > There is a point being made here that I sympathise with
} 
} Well, this just about says it all - I should be ashamed at finding his article
} offensive because you agree with what he said....

That's not what I said.  I said I found it a shame that you
felt the need to respond to that article so offensively.  I'm
not going to censor you or start calling you names, but I will
tell you that I think you are over-reacting.

} anyway, Chris has as much
} right to make the request as I have to state that it bothers me,

Agreed.  However, you were over-zealous in your attempted rebuttal,
IMO, which is why I offered my support to him.

} however, I
} do think it should be pointed out that it was he and others like yourself
} who propose to either
} 
} a) define celtic culture to meet your own needs/desires/wishes

No one is redefining the celtic culture, but we must be able to
discuss the charter for this group and whether certain articles
fall into its scope or are more deserving of a different group.

}   and/or
} b) attempt to censor the content of the group

This is not censorship.  It is merely constructive criticism!
If I wanted censorship, I'd stand for moderator.

} those of you who claim to not
} want to participate in such discussion have a very obvious and easy solution -
} don't read articles regarding NI

You didn't read my article: we *do* want to read such things
(see below).  We just question whether its position is
relevant.  I subscribe to uk.politics and eunet.politics for
such things.  Soc.* groups are more social than political in
nature, as I see it.

} > highlighting what some of us think - that s.c.c. has become too
} > dominated with Anglo-Irish talks.
} 
}  I swear until the day I die I will never understand this logic - you may not
} like the balance but so what?

Agreed: It is `tough luck' that I don't like the balance.
Agreed: I can kill the articles if I want to.
Agreed: I have no right to dictate to others (topic and frequency).
Not agreed: "requests or demands that the group change to
             please a subset of people is absurd"

This is the beauty of the net: when a certain topic dominates
a given newsgroup, one can discuss whether it might be worthy
of its own or another group.  It's not absurd, it's the way
the net operates.  It fails if the subset is so small as to
fail the net's rules for such changes.

} I'm afraid that I have to assume
} that people who claim to have no aggenda but who wish to eliminate specific
} topics from a group like this must at best be kidding themselves...

I have already successfully been instrumental in the creation of
a newsgroup which took discussions from many different newsgroups
and concentrated them in one place - a new newsgroup.  The same
could be done for NI-specific stuff if enough people agree.

I don't think enough people will agree, but I do think that many
people (perhaps a large majority) think that talk.politics.misc
(or similar) would be a better discussion area.

} > There should, IMO, be a better place than a *.culture group for
} > this.  The ease with which I can hit `n' to skip them is not a
} > good solution - I want to read them, just not in this group.
} 
}  Come again? 

I am trying to suggest that a better group might be
talk.politics.N.Ireland or other existing groups which address
politics more explicitly.

} > At the moment I find myself killing them all because in s.c.c.
} > I want to read about cultural celts, not marauding English! :-)
} 
} To claim that one can talk about celtic culture and avoid the topic of
} "marauding English" seems ridiculous to me (and I think many others). I
} also find it offensive that you or anybody else think that you can define celtic
} culture better than the rest of us....

I didn't say my definition was `better'.  NI etc is, of
course, related to celtic culture (and another non-celtic
culture), but *more* related to politics, IMO, and should have
a newsgroup to discuss it with `politics' in the name rather
than 'soc'.  If enough people agree with me then we could
find/make a different newsgroup for that purpose alone.  If
they disagree, no problem, but at least we've discussed it.

Gedge
-- 
Geraint A Edwards, Computing PhD student.  From Windows to OS/2 v2.0 - 50 quid.
gedge@cm.cf.ac.uk gedge%cm.cf.ac.uk@nsf.ac.uk ...!uunet!mcsun!uknet!cf-cm!gedge
Short quotes save money --- modem user here.  I pay for your graphic .sig's :-(