HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: paradis@sousa.ltn.dec.com (Jim Paradis)
Newsgroups: misc.rural,misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Earning a living in the country
Date: 4 Sep 92 20:45:10 GMT
Reply-To: paradis@sousa.enet.dec.com (Jim Paradis)
Followup-To: misc.jobs.misc
Distribution: usa
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


misc.rural readers:  I'm redirecting followups to misc.jobs.misc

misc.jobs.misc readers:  the topic in misc.rural was: "How does one
go about earning a living (especially a computer-related living) out
in the boonies?"  Since this comes very close to the "work at home"
issue (since *very* few employers are likely to be within commuting
distance of one's country acreage), I figured it would be of interest
to m.j.m readers as well...

That said, here's one reply:

In article <1992Aug31.230205.10477@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>, waltervj@coos.dartmouth.edu (Walter V. Jeffries) writes:
>Maybe you're trying to work for the wrong people.  Maybe even you
>should just work for yourself... [rest of reply deleted]

Well..... that's one of the *problems*.  You see, not all of us are
cut out to build up a business from the ground up.  Mind you, I think
I'd *probably* be good at it, but I'm not sure.  (I keep having these
nightmare visions of hanging out my shingle and having *ZERO* customers.
"If you build it, they will come" does *NOT* work in business!).

In any case, one thing I've noticed about the whole "work-at-home"
movement in general is that it's almost entirely geared towards
entrepreneurs.  Nearly all of the magazines and articles and books
that I've read on the subject start out:  "First, start a business".
I guess I'm wondering why it should be this way...  one of the
*reasons* I'm interested in working at home is to save me the two
hours a day I spend commuting along with the related hassles.  If
I go into business for myself, then I'd have to spend those two
hours working the business side of things in *addition* to whatever
else I'm doing... along with the related hassles.  Doesn't seem like
much of a bargain, does it?

I know, I know... I'm asking the corporate world to assume all the risk,
while I reap the rewards, right?  Except I don't see it that way...
encouraging working at home *can* bring rewards to a company (less
frazzled workers, less need for parking and office space, more
flexibility in corporate location, etc. etc. etc.).

I think part of the problem is that working from home seems to many
like a decadent luxury, and our work-ethic society just can't seem
to allow itself that.  Then again, once upon a time, it didn't allow
itself the eight-hour workday either...

--
Jim Paradis (paradis@tallis.enet.dec.com) 
Working for DEC, speaking for myself.
From: bill@chaos.cs.umn.edu (Hari Seldon ... psychohistorian)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: new title (was a whole lot of other things in past lives)
Date: 14 Sep 92 23:36:12 GMT
Organization: University of Minnesota

In <122980016@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM> byrnes@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (John Byrnes) writes:

>> 
>> In <122980015@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM> byrnes@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (John Byrnes) writes:
>> 
>> >Ethanol instead of Oil is *worse* for the environment by a large factor.
>> >The amount of fresh water used, pesticides, fermentation gases, etc.
>> >cause more damage overall.

>HUH?  WHAT?  I was making a comment on the overall benefits/drawbacks of
>burning petroleum products verses ethanol in engines.  Are you trying to say
>that organic farming will produce ethanol without these drawbacks?

hmmm but from above it looks like you were speaking about the production of
ethanol, what with the talk of water, pesticides, fermintation gases, etc
is it possible i was wrong??? if so sorry but the way i read the original
post (and responded to it) you were pointing to those as problems associated
with ethanol production which were not associated with oil, etc, etc.

>> last but not least, i prefer to get most of my real scientific information
>> from those who do it. not those who write about someone who wrote about
>> someone, who knew someone, who thought they'd heard about it from their
>> brothers wife's cousin :-) it is amazing how much information is available
>> that you and i have already paid for. 

>Absolutely.  You don't have to believe me.  Go to your local library and 
>look it up.  When you subscribe to a news-group, you have to sort out the 
>garbage from the jewels.  If you don't like this, don't read it.  Don't 
>bother whining about it.

ah but i was not 'whinning' i was noting that i prefer to try and read
the relevant research material directly, not the synopsys of it by a
mainstream 'science' mag. i've seen to many mainstream mags rip an 
article but upon reading the article itself it sounds like we were reading
2 different things. translation. to many editors spoil the research.

>Oh my God!  Capital letters!  He does have a "Shift" key!

oh no:-(
there i've deleted the evidence now no one will ever know:-)

bill pociengel

--
bill@chaos.cs.umn.edu
From: jheath@CERIS.Purdue.EDU (Jim Heath)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Capital Suicide (was Real Farms)
Date: 11 Sep 92 18:16:51 GMT
Organization: Center for Environmental and Regulatory Information Systems, Purdue University

From article <1992Sep11.093052@IASTATE.EDU>, by darcher@IASTATE.EDU (David W Archer):
> However, there are some other things to consider.  There is a national
> interest in preserving a stable food supply.  There is a fundamental
> difference between depending on foreign sources for something such as
> oil compared to depending on foreign sources for food.  If we beleive
> that there is the possibility that these sources will be cut off, then
> people CAN survive without oil, but they CANNOT survive without food.
> Also, the effects of abolishing all subsidies paid to farmers would likely
> result in some significant shifts in regional economies.  Although society
> as a whole may benefit, alot of individual families would be devistated.
>

I don't think oil is a good example here.  I don't think American
farmers could produce nearly as much food without
oil/gasoline/diesel for their combines and tractors.  Isn't oil,
curiously enough, used to make fertilizer as well? 
-- 
"Land of song, said the warrior bard,           Jim Heath
Though all the world betrays thee.
One sword, at least, thy rights shall guard, (The Minstrel Boy)
One faithful harp will praise thee."         (Thomas Moore)
From: dap@aber.ac.uk (D E Price)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Innovative uses of IT and Telecommunications in Rural Areas
Date: 15 Sep 92 14:25:15 GMT
Organization: University of Wales, Aberystwyth

Dear All,
	Some of my colleagues and I here in Computer Science
at Aberystwyth, WALES UK are involved in a research project
to quantify the requirement for telecommunications
in the rural areas of europe and decide how it can best be provided.
Our plans are to produce an evolutionary path with full
high speed broadband communications as the vision for the (distant) future.
The project is called 'Better Infrastructure for Rural Development'
or BIRD for short. The 10 partners come from 7 different European
countries and the project is (partially) funded by the European Commission.
The project is led by CET, the research laboratories of Telecom Portugal.

BIRD is part of the Opportunities for Information Technologies and
Telecommunications Programme, normally just called ORA. It is
one of a series of Telematics Programmes funded alongside the RACE
programme.

Currently, we are trying to quantify the future 'usage requirement'
and we would be delighted to here from anyone with interesting
experiences of Rural IT&T or good ideas for the future.

I look forward to hearing from any of you that can offer opinions
or who may be further interested in our work.

Yours,
David Price,
Computer Science,
University of Wales,
Aberystwyth,
Dyfed,
WALES
UK. SY23 3DB
From: mnb@voodoo.boeing.com (Mike Burr)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: How big is an acre, Really?
Date: 10 Sep 92 17:00:46 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Boeing Graphics project, Bellevue WA

In article <HOLLEN.92Sep9152210@peg.megatek.UUCP> hollen@megatek.UUCP (Dion Hollenbeck) writes:
>
>1) What is the exterior dimension of an acre?

    Acre is a unit of area so it has infinite correct exterior
    dimensions, but one would be a square approx. 208' 8.5" on a side.

>2) How many square feet in an acre?

    43,560

>3) How many acres in a plot 1/4 mile x 1/4 mile?

    40
-- 
Michael Burr   mnb@voodoo.boeing.com  | Boeing Computer Services, Bellevue WA
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: sstout@yukon.EBay.Sun.COM (Steve Stout, Mgr. Sales Negotiations)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: How big is an acre, Really?
Date: 10 Sep 1992 20:59:39 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: sstout@yukon.EBay.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: yukon.ebay.sun.com

An aside to this subject.  In order for me to
visualize the size of an acre I did the math
and discovered it is very close to the size
of an American football field excluding the
goal areas.

'Steve

Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: josh@Happy-Man.com (Joshua_Putnam)
Subject: Re: How big is an acre, Really?
Reply-To: Joshua_Putnam@happy-man.com
Organization: Happy Man Corp., Vashon Island, WA 98070-7399
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 19:08:37 GMT

First, linear measures:

7.92 inches = 1 link
100 links = 66 feet = 1 chain
10 chains = 1 furlong
8 furlongs = 1 mile (land, aka statute, mile, not nautical)
3 miles = 1 league (land, not nautical)

(Note: engineering chains are different -- they use 100
links 1 foot in length.)

Surveying measures:

625 square links = 1 square pole
16 square poles = 1 square chain
10 square chains = 1 acre
640 acres = 1 square mile = 1 section
36 square miles = 1 township

Note that section and township are not only units of area,
but also the official descriptors for property locations
in the western areas of the United States.  A plot will be
described as [some section of] section X of township Y in
range Z.  Agricultural land is often discussed in terms
larger than acres, e.g. "I'd like to buy a quarter section
of that good land on the west side." or "Anyone with less
than a section lives in a city."
-- 
 Joshua_Putnam@happy-man.com    Happy Man Corp.  206/463-9399 x102
 4410 SW Pt. Robinson Rd., Vashon Island, WA  98070-7399  fax x108
 We publish SOLID VALUE for the intelligent investor.  NextMail OK
Info free; sample $20: Send POSTAL addr: Solid-Value@happy-man.com
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: josh@Happy-Man.com (Joshua_Putnam)
Subject: Re: How big is an acre, Really?
Reply-To: Joshua_Putnam@happy-man.com
Organization: Happy Man Corp., Vashon Island, WA 98070-7399
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 22:30:39 GMT

In <1992Sep10.192928.4490@mprgate.mpr.ca> wilsenac@farm.mpr.ca (I'd Rather Be Farming...) writes:

>In article 92Sep9152210@peg.megatek.UUCP, hollen@megatek.UUCP (Dion Hollenbeck) writes:
>>1) What is the exterior dimension of an acre?
>>2) How many square feet in an acre?
>>3) How many acres in a plot 1/4 mile x 1/4 mile?

>This thread is just too good to pass up... :-)
>Up in Canada here, eh we're metric, so...

>  4) What is the exterior dimension of a hectare?
>  5) How many square feet in hectare?
>  6) How many hectares in a plot 1/4 mile x 1/4 mile?

1 sq ft = 929 sq cm
1 sq yd = 0.8361 sq m
1 sq rod = 25.29 sq m
1 acre = 40.4687 ares (0.404687 hectare)
1 sq mi = 259 ha = 2.59 sq km
1 township = 9324.0 ha

.25 mi x .25 mi = .0625 sq mi = 16.1875 ha
-- 
 Joshua_Putnam@happy-man.com    Happy Man Corp.  206/463-9399 x102
 4410 SW Pt. Robinson Rd., Vashon Island, WA  98070-7399  fax x108
 We publish SOLID VALUE for the intelligent investor.  NextMail OK
Info free; sample $20: Send POSTAL addr: Solid-Value@happy-man.com
From: bill@chaos.cs.umn.edu
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: well's - pumps/pressure tanks
Date: 9 Sep 92 00:11:30 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Minnesota

In <65441@cup.portal.com> AllanWS@cup.portal.com (Allan BA Schlaugat) writes:

>Albertville, Wisconsin is located 13 miles NW of Eau Claire (or 80 
>miles due east of metro MPLS, MN). Our big claim to fame this year

you really are not that far from me (~40 miles or so) let me know if ya can't 
find the problem, i'll see what (if anything) i can do. 15551212 river falls
you know the name

bill pociengel
--
bill@chaos.cs.umn.edu
From: dietz@cs.rochester.edu (Paul Dietz)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Capital Suicide (was Real Farms)
Date: 11 Sep 92 21:38:52 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department University of Rochester

In article <1992Sep11.145925@IASTATE.EDU> darcher@IASTATE.EDU (David W Archer) writes:

>> I don't think oil is a good example here.  I don't think American
>> farmers could produce nearly as much food without
>> oil/gasoline/diesel for their combines and tractors.  Isn't oil,
>> curiously enough, used to make fertilizer as well? 

> You are right.  American agriculture is extremely petroleum dependant.
> A better example would be something like automobiles.


US agriculture as it is set up requires artificial energy inputs.
However, there is nothing that says these inputs must be from fossil
fuels, let alone petroleum.

Also, as a fraction of the US energy use, agriculture doesn't use very
much energy.  I dredged these numbers out of the McGraw-Hill
Encyclopedia of Science and Technology:

	Energy use in the US food system, in quadrillion BTU/year
	  (total US primary energy use ~ 89 quad/year)

	Food Production				2.0 quad
	Food Processing				3.6
	Marketing and Distr.			1.3
	Commercial eating establishments	2.1
	Home food use and preparation		3.2

This comes to about 1/7 of the total US primary energy use.  The
energy spent on actually *growing* the food is only a few percent of
total primary energy use (and only about 1/5 of the energy used
in the food system.)

What are the energy inputs to food production?

	Pertrochemicals (fertilizer and pesticides)	.764 quad
	Farm machinery					.469
	transportation					.370
	irrigation					.263
	crop drying					.075
	miscellaneous					.081

All these uses can be replaced with nonfossil energy.  Fertilizer
energy go mostly to ammonia synthesis, which requires hydrogen
(currently made from natural gas, not oil, by the way), which can be
made either from biomass or by electrolysis.  Phosphate fertilizer
production requires acid, but sulfuric acid can be made from sulfate
rock given a heat source (not that we are going to run out of reduced
sulfur soon).  Fuel for farm machinery can be made from biomass by a
number of processes (methanol or ethanol from lignocellulose, say), as
can fuel for transportation.  Irrigation and crop drying can all be
powered by nonfossil sources.

A renewable energy supply adequate to sustain industrial civilization
is more than enough to run modern, energy intensive agriculture.
	
	Paul F. Dietz
	dietz@cs.rochester.edu
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Monday, 14 Sep 1992 23:07:04 CDT
From: Ty Warner <U40643@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: How big is an acre, Really?
Distribution: usa

In article <HOLLEN.92Sep9152210@peg.megatek.UUCP>, hollen@megatek.UUCP (Dion
Hollenbeck) says:
>
>
>1) What is the exterior dimension of an acre?

See #2!

>2) How many square feet in an acre?

43,560.  So in a perfect square acre, exterior dimension would be
the square root of 43,560, or 208.71 feet.

>3) How many acres in a plot 1/4 mile x 1/4 mile?

1 mile = 5280 feet.  5280/4 = 1320.  1320 x 1320 = 1,742,400 square feet.
1,742,400/43,560 = 40 acres.

>Thank you very much.

No problem!  ;)
From: AllanWS@cup.portal.com (Allan BA Schlaugat)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: well's - pumps/pressure tanks
Date: Mon,  7 Sep 92 22:36:27 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: usa

Thanks for the reply to my 'well' problem. I really can't reproduce
the problem until it gets below freezing so I can't say for certain
what is going on except I shut the valve from the tank to the house
and beyond (ie: only the tank and pump are active) and it still
acts up meaning we have good plumbing. I think I am going to concentrate
on the relief valve at the pump and check it with the local plumber
when the subfreezing weather arrives (which should be sometime next
week if this year's weather is any indication. :-)).

Albertville, Wisconsin is located 13 miles NW of Eau Claire (or 80 
miles due east of metro MPLS, MN). Our big claim to fame this year
was our 'Winter Olympics' which raised $12,000 for Special Olympics
during the real Olympics this past winter. My team won the cow-chip
hockey tornament on Main Street... :-)
..and oh yeah.. I know about where Farmington is. A relative of mine from
West Bend, Wi has a bumper sticker with the traditional 'Where the Heck
is... Farmington, WI"
Stay Warm!

Go Brewers/Robin on 3,000 hits!
Al Schlaugat
From: dan@aupair.cs.athabascau.ca (Dan West)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Trailer (YECH!) foundations
Date: 2 Sep 92 15:15:24 GMT
Distribution: misc.rural

A few years ago a friend of mine had this same situation. He was able to
solve it by buying special steel screw-in stakes, about 5 feet long, which
he screwed into the ground beneath his trailer.  He then cabled the trailer
frame to the stakes, and went to the bank.  They had to agree that the trailer
was indeed fixed to the ground even though it was resting on blocking.


Dan West
dan@cs.athabascau.ca
From: marcos@pdx047 (Marcos O. Camargo)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Capital Suicide (was Real Farms)
Date: 10 Sep 92 20:27:54 GMT
Organization: Intel Corp., Hillsboro, Oregon

In article <1992Sep10.132611@IASTATE.EDU> darcher@IASTATE.EDU (David W Archer) writes:
>... It is quite likely that eliminating all farm programs and
>agricultural trade barriers worldwide would result in higher U.S. 
>production because of the relative efficiency of U.S. agriculture.
>
Efficiency is defined as is a ratio of how much you get out and how much you
put in.

Since the energy used in the U.S. to produce food is much more than the energy
that the food provides, American agriculture is very inefficient.

One may say that American agriculture is very productive, but not very
efficient.





-- 
Marcos O. Camargo             |  e-mail:  marcos@ichips.intel.com
Intel Corp.  JF1-19           |  phone :  (503) 696-4273
5200 N.E. Elam Young Parkway  |  FAX   :  (503) 681-9017
Hillsboro, Oregon  97124      |
From: system@coldbox.cojones.com (Bryan Lockwood)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Wanted: info on water purification systems
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 92 06:15:57 PDT
Organization: The Generation Gap

scollins@lookout.it.uswc.uswest.com (Steven Collins) writes:

> 
>  Anybody have any suggestions on good water purification
> systems?  We have been looking at RainSoft but also know
> of other systems that use a magnetic field to precipitate
> out the minerals.  Any info. would be welcomed.
> Thanks, Steve

I'm a licensed water treatment operator in the state of Alaska. That means I
know big (municipal size) water treatment systems, not the home-sized ones.

But you'll need to define your question a bit better before anyone can help
you find an answer. What sort of water treatment do you need?
Demineralization? Softening? Sterilization? Filtration?

The best thing to do is get your water analyzed at a private lab and see what
the lab techs say... then shop for a unit. I've heard several claims about
these magnet units, but actually I am somewhat skeptical of them myself- as
are others. I don't know enough about the specific claims related to them to
make a good case either for or against, though.

Bryan Lockwood             |
system@cojones.com         |   "This is the Nineties, Bubba, and there
uunet!coldbox!system       |    and there is no such thing as Paranoia.
1@501 (WWIVnet)            |    It's all True." (Hunter S. Thompson)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Mary Shafer)
Subject: Re: Real Farms
Organization: NASA Dryden, Edwards, Cal.
	<1992Sep4.021727.13086@news.iastate.edu>
	<1992Sep4.175146.8815@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com>
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 20:18:43 GMT

We have 270 acres on two farms in northeast Iowa, with about 220
tillable, not counting waterways, etc.  Eighty or so acres in corn,
about 20 in oats, and the rest in alfalfa and pasture.

We have 75 cows, four bulls, and a lot of calves.  We feed the corn to
the cattle, sell the oats, and feed about half the hay.  The other
half we sell.

We don't lose a lot of money.

My husband and I own the land and the fixed improvements.  We tapped
into the conservation service for terracing the year before last and
they also helped with the pond about 12 years ago.  The cattle are
co-owned with our partner, who does all the work.  Essentially, we
provide the land and half the cost of the seed, etc, and he provides
the labor and the other half of the cost.  He makes most of the
quotidian decisions and we all make longterm decisions.  (Our partner
also farms about 1000 acres (3/4 rented) on his own account and raises
_lots_ of pigs.)

Do you know how to make a small fortune in farming?  Start with a
large one!

--
Mary Shafer  DoD #0362 KotFR NASA Dryden Flight Research Facility, Edwards, CA
shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov                    Of course I don't speak for NASA
 "There's no kill like a guns kill." LCDR "Hoser" Satrapa, gunnery instructor
                       "A kill is a kill."  Anonymous
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: terryr@ecs.comm.mot.com (Terry Ridder)
Subject: Re: 4H vs. FFA (was Re: misc.rual.misc)
Organization: Blue Danube Software
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 19:21:45 GMT

In article <1992Sep4.123551.9711@ornl.gov> de5@ORNL.GOV (Dave Sill) writes:
>In article <1992Sep4.020439.12624@news.iastate.edu>, mpleis@iastate.edu (Cowboy) writes:
>>In article <bill.715567658@chaos.cs.umn.edu> bill@chaos.cs.umn.edu () writes:
>>>... do you support the 4h kids when they are trying to buy milk cows to raise?
>>>are your kids in 4h? ffa? 
>>
>>I hate 4H I am a State FFA officr this year (V.P.)
>
>Why do you hate 4H?  Why do you think FFA is superior?  What do you think, Bill? 
>Anyone else?
>
>I'd like to hear more about both organizations since I'm only slightly aware of
>what they're about.  I have a 10 year-old boy who might be interested in joining
>one or both of these groups.
>
I am not to pleased with 4H, mainly due to the manner in which the 4H Auctions
are handled. The DeKalb County 4H Auction held recently the exhibtor of the
Champion Lamb, received $975.00. There should be some form of limits placed on
how much a 4H Exhibitor may receive and the amount over and above that should go
to a general fund so all exhibtors may receive some form of financial help/aid/reward.

The other probelm with 4H is that they are not teaching the children very
good ethics, when numerous exhibtors, who are receiving $4000.00 to $5000.00
for a steer or boar, are not paying TAXES on the money. (Yes I said the
awful word TAXES.) My neighbors write the feed expenses for their childrens
4H projects of with their own farm expenses. The child/children should also
be learning the paper work/economics of the project as well.

The local FFA Chapter is in line with 'Total Approach' to teaching the
child/children. They also limit the amount the exhibtor may receive and the
amount over and above that is divided amongst all exhibtors.

The above opinions and comments are my own and do not reflect the opinion of
my business (even though I own the business.)

Terry L. Ridder
-- 
Terry L. Ridder
Blue Danube Software, De Kalb, Illinois, USA 60115
Blauen Donau Software, Kals, Ost Tirol, Oesterreich