HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jnewman@hamp.hampshire.edu
Subject: Re: Sonic booms and wildlife (was re: space, the final ...)
Organization: Hampshire College
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 23:53:45 GMT

In article <1992Dec9.114234.9382@ac.dal.ca>, jblain@ac.dal.ca writes:
> This is regarding a small part of the spacetravel, etc, controversy.
> Alizard asks is there's any information on what happens when wildlife is
> subjected to sonic booms at close range. There is. I don't have it, I'm
> afraid, but the experts would be the Innu people of Labrador. They have
> been involved in a long-running campaign against low-flying of military
> aircraft. The noise, they say, has destroyed their traditional lifestyle
> because of the effect on wildlife, particularly caribou. They have the
> support of many environmental scientists.
> 
> You could check this out
> 
> Blessings -
> -- 
> 
> 	Jenny	

The Innu people have had their guts sucked out for quite a while now.  The
Canadian government is being pressured by a large electricity company (I don't
remember which one, but it's Canadian) to chase the Innu off of their
reservation so it can be flooded for a dam.  Nice, huh?  Their fish have been
poisoned, their carabou have been spooked, and their plants have been killed. 
Isn't the Canadian government just swell?  (Not that we're any better here, but
that wan't the topic...)
					-Vivat me!
						-Grendel 2.0
From: lrabe@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Lee A Rabe)
Subject: Re: Santa Claus
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 17:12:08 GMT


Friends of mine tell their kids that Santa is a wonderful person who brings
every boy and girl 1 present, the rest are from Mom and Dad (Grandma whoever)

They get the idea of a generous person without thinking they "deserve" lots of
stuff from some unknown person.  It also eliminates wondering why Santa can't
just bring lots of stuff to poorer children....

TopCat
From: martini@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (ok)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: What the hell to do for Solstice
Date: 14 Dec 92 17:27:35 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

you know, its funny to try to come out to your parents when it has nothing
to do with sexuality, in these days.

after my head-on collision, i was on +wonderful+ painkillers which allowed me
to tell my mother that i was "yano, kina wiccan.. sorry mom".. to understand
something of why valium was so tempting to bored housewives is another matter,
but I dont think that I would have told my mother while sober, because just
not telling her & living life anyway was so much easier.

perhaps it would be easier for you to just avoid it all.. I feel much better
to myself for having said it, and still sticking to it, altho I dont bring
it up much.  the saddening part is that they never bring it up, as in, it
doesnt exsist, they still ask me to come to mass, etc.. but it has been said,
and as adult humans, they can take it and run with it, or not.

you are, as we all are, a creature of light and love, with worthy things to
respect, a sense of what you believe in.. anything more that parents ask is,
in my thoughts, not their concern after you reach some hard to define age..

as far as the solstice, if you are going where its cold, burn some old notes,
plants you've collected, or something, and if you dont want to explain to
the household why you're cremating mass amounts of eucalyptus, then sorta let
it roll off, and enjoy the fire.

happy snowflakes..
sheilagh
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: swaim@owlnet.rice.edu (Michael Parks Swaim)
Subject: Re: Physics
Organization: Rice University
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 07:45:43 GMT

In article <1992Dec11.174812.1@hamp.hampshire.edu> jnewman@hamp.hampshire.edu writes:
>Actually, *I'm* just starting with Q Mech, having dropped classical physics due
>to really rough mathematics...I'm taking a theoretical Q-Mech course that's
>built for we not-very-good-at-mathematics-people.
  Heh. Yeah, the math can get kinda bad. We only had one problem that
no one could get, though. The thing that really got to me was in 
Electromagnetics recitation, every now and then, after one of us worked a
problem, the prof would then give a 30 second solution that was much more
elegant.

>				Vivat me!
>				-Grendel 2.0

                                In him was I born
                                In him shall I die
                                In him shall I lose
                                name, station and face.

                                Vivat Grendel!



-- 
Mike Swaim            | "101 Dalmations? Yeah I saw that."
swaim@owlnet.rice.edu | "You Did! REALLY? The same film?
Disclamer: I lie      | Let's stop driving! We must get out and jump
up and down and up and down and dance around and around!" Matt and Delerium
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: Meaning of pentagram, pentacle for You
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 09:39:55 GMT

cn573@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ray Henry) writes:
: 
: It is also common to use the proper pentagram to indicate White
: magic and the inverted pentagram to indicate Black magic. Hence,
: the popularity of the inverted pentagram by self-proclaimed
: "Satanists" as well as those who actually do follow the darker
: paths.

This is mainly in the minds of those bound up in the more conservative
sects of Christianity.

There is no such thing as the "proper" orientation of the pentagram,
except to those who insist on a dualistic universe. The same is true
for "black" and "white" magic.  My experience is that "black" magic
is what "they" are doing - "we do "white" magic.  Bah!

Except for the followers of Levey, I don't know of any Satanists who
claim the pentagram as a symbol of their beliefs - in any orientation.

Bill
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: jnewman@hamp.hampshire.edu
Subject: Re: There's a hole in the ozone!
Organization: Hampshire College
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 19:49:01 GMT
















> The shuttle as a long term transportation mechanism for space
> industrialization has no support around here, and none among people who
> don't work for NASA or the manufacturers who understand the issues.
> Future space vehicles will almost certainly be running hydrogen and oxygen
> ... whose waste product is water vapor. And a lot less of that, rail gun
> technology can be used to replace rocket boosters even in vehicles that for
> whatever reason have to use rockets for upper stages.
> blessings
>                                                  A.Lizard
> ====== 93 ====== sum saurus, sum saurus, sum maximus saurus! ====== 93 ======
>  (slogan contributed by Jessica Mc Geary)  (translated by Murray Altheim)
> Mail to me should be sent to:       |  There are no fnords in this sig file.
> alizard%tweekco%boo@PacBell.COM     |  autoreply to address I posted this
>      ^^^ preferred site ^^^         |  from only if you want to wait a
> PacBell.COM!boo!tweekco!alizard     |  solstice or two for my answer.
> alizard@seer.mystic.com             |              Kallisti!
> ^^^use ONLY if all else fails       |  PGP2.0 public key available on request
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Public Image Limited VBBS (510) 831-3634 [MUDS] Free Internet Access


In fact, there are all sorts of better propulsion systems in the works,
including a pretty stuzzy elevator that runs electromagnetically like a maglev,
but up.  The problem with railguns is that they have to launch so fast that the
projectile burns up on the way *up*!  But it is being worked on.  

As humans, we are still in our child stage.  We're sort of in our "terrible
twos"-we're destructive, arrogant, and selfish.  Don't worry.  It's just a
phase.  We'll get over it.

				Vivat Grendel
From: "deron douglas" <deron.douglas@canrem.com>
Subject: pagan sig for (313)
Reply-To: "deron douglas" <deron.douglas@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: alt
Date: 13 Dec 92 02:52:05 EST

Hi Carolyn !

Long time no see ! Very nice to see you around again, just finished
Wicca:A Guide for the Solitary Practitioner.  I'm going to the local
WCC in Toronto to pick up a few more ie.Drawing down the Moon and perhaps
some....(yes <grin>) Sybil Leek...I figure why not ?

Have any addition suggestions for reading material ?

Thanx again...for your help..
BTW...ever get my other messages, that offer for the Japanese beach pebbles is
this open....

Deron
---
  DeLuxe 1.26b #815  .
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
From: tempest@cibbs.UUCP
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Tree Prayin' Fey Talkin' Foo'
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 92 20:51:08 EST
Organization: DataSoft Consulting (Toronto, Ont. Canada)

Here's another thing you can do with trees.  Instead of trying to communicate
with them, let them help you with your meditations.  They are excellent at
helping us calm ourselfs if we will allow them to help.

It was shown to me as "embrasing the tree".  Just go out into the woods and
cup your hands around an appropriately sized tree.  Then empty your mind.  I've
talked to others who have done it.  People who could not meditate at all (for
whatever reason) found that they could loose themselves for hours.


TEMPEST!!!                                                  tempest@cibbs.uucp
                          - "Love and Kindness"          uunorth!cibbs!tempest
From: alizard@pil
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Start again.
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 13:20:27 PST

Re: Re: Start again.
 
> From: markbr%radian@natinst.com (markbr)
> Newsgroups: alt.pagan
> A couple of weeks ago, the asteroid Toutatis (pronounced, I am told, Two-to-t
> passed within 2M miles of the Earth. It will return, at least for a while (I
> assume it's orbit is changing) every four years. The next two passes will be
> further, but in 2004 is will be < 1M. 
> The first project of this committee is to answer these questions:
>    1) Is it technologically feasable to add enough controllable delta-v
> to Toutatis so that by 2004 we could move it into Earth orbit
> (somewhere between 1K & 22.3K miles out, *well* above any trace
> of atmosphere, but keeping in mind the Van Allen Belts); and


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From: alizard@pil
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Social inhibitions to environmental change
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 92 04:22:48 PST

Re: Re: Social inhibitions to environmental change
 
> From: casspa@atlantis.CS.ORST.EDU (Paul Cass)
> Newsgroups: alt.pagan
> Subject: Re: Social inhibitions to environmental change
> Date: Sat, 12 Dec 92 05:28:15 GMT
> References: <1298@abb-sc.abb-sc.COM>
> Nntp-Posting-Host: atlantis.cs.orst.edu
> I am posting this article because the "labeling" issue for environmentalists
> holds true for pagans, the political left, gays and lesbians etc.  I 
> realize that there is a fair amount of jargon but most of it is self

Thanks for a useful post. One of my friends was involved with the Judi Bari
situation, the intent of the news stories and info provided by the police
was OBVIOUSLY to discredit Bari, the info they provided was patently
false, logically inconsistent with the evidence and any assumption that Ms.
Bari had a functioning brain.

One of the things I've been careful to do in this discussion of the
environment is to avoid using labels on the opposition, e.g. treehuggers,
ecofascists, anything having any resemblance to those terms. 

These labels are deliberately intended to interfere with rational discussion.
Flaming people over stupidity and illogic may be fair. Use of the terms
recommended by PR firms to characterize environmentalists either denotes
ignorance or a personal agenda consistent with fascism.
blessings...
                                                 A.Lizard
====== 93 ====== sum saurus, sum saurus, sum maximus saurus! ====== 93 ======
 (slogan contributed by Jessica Mc Geary)  (translated by Murray Altheim)
Mail to me should be sent to:       |  There are no fnords in this sig file.
alizard%tweekco%boo@PacBell.COM     |  autoreply to address I posted this
     ^^^ preferred site ^^^         |  from only if you want to wait a
PacBell.COM!boo!tweekco!alizard     |  solstice or two for my answer.
alizard@seer.mystic.com             |              Kallisti!
^^^use ONLY if all else fails       |  PGP2.0 public key available on request

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From: kevin@pages.com (Kevin Sven Berg)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: God etc
Date: 16 Dec 92 06:22:45 GMT
Organization: Banzai Research Institute

In article <liqdkiINNi5v@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> emarsh@hernes-sun.Eng.Sun.COM  
(Eric Marsh) writes:
> In article <uX4qVB1w165w@momad.li.ny.us> siphon@Momad.LI.NY.US (Stimpson J.  
Katz) writes:
> >torkel@sics.se (Torkel Franzen) writes:
> 
> >>   I find it baffling why, from the point of view of religion, it should be
> >> considered a question of importance whether or not there is a God who
> >> created the world, or again, whether or not Jesus was in fact a Savior
> >> of mankind. Surely all this business about the universe being created,
> >> about eternal life, about damnation and power and hopes and fears, is
> >> irrelevant to what religion is about?
> 
> >    Then enlighten us, O sage, what precisely is relgion about?
> 
> I've been thinking on this question for some time, and my conclusion
> is that all religions provide philosophical systems that the adherents
> of the religion use to establish a relationship between themselves
> and the world around them. These relationships are as varied as the
> religions: some have primary focuses on social interaction, some focus
> on on other systems (such as the relationship of man and nature);
> some are theistic while others are athiestic.
> 
> Anyone else have any thoughts on this subject?
> 
> Eric

Gee, sounds like Joseph Cambell in describing the role and 
function of mythos. If you haven't seen the Bill Moyer PBS
interview, you might really enjoy it. Public libraries often 
carry the video tapes.

regards,

Kevin
-- 
Kevin Sven Berg               /    /    /    /  P /  a /  g /  e /  s
kevin@pages.com              /    /    /    /    /    /    /    / 
Pages Software Inc.         /    /    /    /    /    /    /    /   
San Diego, CA.               `    `    `    `    `    `    `    `
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe)
Subject: Re: druid tree talking
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 21:00:31 GMT


One quick caveat:

I have yet to see *any* evidence that *any* form of Druidism today is anything
other than neo-Druidism.  I know that there are lots of books out there claiming
to teach the secrets of the ancient Druids, but that is hogwash.  The Druids
were the sacrificial priesthood of the Aryans who swept across Western Europe,
creating what we now call Celtic culture.  (Yes, the Celts were Aryan chariot
warriors--not peaceful folk!)  This priesthood drew its validity from the 
culture.  Since tribal Celtic culture no longer exists, Druids no longer exist.
Besides, the Romans wiped out most of them, and people like St. Patrick took out
the rest.

If anyone has any *historically* verifiable evidence to show me that any of
these modern Druidic orders descend from the ancient Druids, please let me
know.  I am perfectly willing to be shown to be wrong.  (It certainly wouldn't
be the first time! :) )

However, I have no interest in anyone claiming that I am attacking hir
religious beliefs--if your faith hangs on some historical claim, then you have
real problems with your faith.  (For one thing, it means that you are a 
fundamentalist.)   (Sorry if this seems harsh, folks, especially ME, but I've
heard more than enough "grandmother stories" in my day.)  I am not attacking
anyones beliefs, I am only attacking claims of historical character.  Neo-
Druidism is just as valid as any other neo-pagan strand, but that doesn't
make any historical claims any more valid than Alex Sander's claim of 
childhood initiation into Wicca.

Enjoy the journey!

                      --Br'anArthur

                                      Queer, Peculiar, and Wyrd! :-)

******************************************************************************
"We are secretly replacing the fine quartz crystals this medicine pouch maker
usually uses with Folgers crystals.  Let's see what happens...."
                                      --DACCrowell
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: kenyon@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Subject: Re: Boston area Fey
Reply-To: kenyon@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Organization: Brandeis University
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 00:41:32 GMT

I've lived in the Boston area for over a year, and havn't encountered any yet
I have, however felt a presence in the mountain wilds of Northern New 
Hampshire.  I hope the urban metropolis has not driven them off the eastern
seaboard.

Fare Thee Well,
From: lance@Circle.Raleigh.NC.US (Lance A. Brown)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Social inhibitions to environmental change
Date: 14 Dec 92 02:24:09 GMT
Organization: The Full Circle BBS, Raleigh NC - DOS/Waffle 1.65

ksm@abb-sc.abb-sc.com (Ashley) writes:
> In article <gate.71XLVB1w165w@pil.UUCP>, alizard@pil writes...
> >Re: Re: Social inhibitions to environmental change
> > 
> > 
> >Recycling PORCELAIN??? 
> >1. There is no shortage of the raw materials (as in clay)... a good portion
> >of this planet is made of the stuff. NO ONE foresees our running out of it.
> >2. Would you like to come up with an estimate on how much electrical power
> >it would take to reduce a toilet into fine powder, what chemical processing
> >will be required to make it practical to reuse this powder?
> >This is a case where recycling would be a NET DETRIMENT to the planet.
> >Chemical waste products and wasted energy. I got a good laugh out of this,
> >though, thanks.
> 
> Still being derisive? Fine. Apparently you want to adhere to the old 
> "disposable use" mindset. Apparently you have only read what I have written 
> to find things to attack instead of trying to see what was being said. 
> How usefull.

I have to agree with Alizard on this one.  How much energy has to be 
expended to reclaim materials such as porcelain and sheetrock that is now 
going into landfills?  If we have to use lots of energy (electricity) that 
was generated using fossil fuels to reclaim these materials are we really 
gaining anything in the long run?

> Here we have a fine example of a product that could easily be made 
> into something else or placed back in the ground. You laugh because 
> the resourse is no where near being low. So I guess your idea of what 
> is best to do with it is throw it in a landfill? Well I disagree. It 
> should be processed so that the material does not *have* to sit in a 
> landfill. The landfills are filling up and we are running out of room, 
> so why not reprocess what we can so that it need not be there?

True, maybe we _can_ afford to take old porcelain and use it for shore 
stabilization by breaking it into appropriate sized chunks instead of 
grinding it all the way to powder.

My point is that it may cost us too much in terms of energy production and 
resultant pollution to totally recycle some materials.  On the other hand, 
there may be uses for these materials that are not so costly.

Lance


--
The Full Circle
 Domain: lance@circle.raleigh.nc.us (Lance A. Brown)  [ preferred ]
  Bangs: ...!wolves!circle!lance
From: lance@Circle.Raleigh.NC.US (Lance A. Brown)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Recycling,
Date: 16 Dec 92 03:49:04 GMT
Organization: The Full Circle BBS, Raleigh NC - DOS/Waffle 1.65

patrickm@netlink.cts.com (Patrick McKinnion) writes:
>    While on the comment of recycling items concidered to be 
> "unrecyclable", my school, (Grossmont College, El Cajon, CA), just 
> repaved all the campus roads using asphalt made from old auto tyres.

Neat stuff.  I wonder how it will hold up to long term wear?  Anyone know?  
Also, does the "rubber" in the road help traction?

>    What would be the potential for using ground porcelain in a simular 
> road-concept ??  (example; Replacing the sand in concrete, or as a fill 
> material in road construction ??

Very good.  I expect that it would work well in replacing the gavel used.  
That way it does not have to be ground down so far.

Lance

--
The Full Circle
 Domain: lance@circle.raleigh.nc.us (Lance A. Brown)  [ preferred ]
  Bangs: ...!wolves!circle!lance
From: alizard@pil
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Social inhibitions to environmental change
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 21:42:54 PST

Re: Re: Social inhibitions to environmental change
 
> From: aaldrich@encore.com (Al Aldrich)
> Newsgroups: alt.pagan
> Subject: Re: Social inhibitions to environmental change
> Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 12:55:17 GMT
> alizard@pil writes:
> >> and unecessary. Geez..people, can we be kind ?
> >> >blessings,
> >> al
> >Ashley has the right to say what he pleases. When he obviously doesn't
> >know what he's talking about, he does NOT have the right to be taken
> >seriously. This is a serious issue. If he wants to be taken seriously
> >on this by any but the equally ignorant, he needs to do some serious
> >study on subjects ranging from recycling to economics to space technology.
> So I guess the answer is no ...huh?
> ;-(

Ever heard of the concept of "grandmotherly kindness"?
blessings
                                                 A.Lizard
====== 93 ====== sum saurus, sum saurus, sum maximus saurus! ====== 93 ======
 (slogan contributed by Jessica Mc Geary)  (translated by Murray Altheim)
Mail to me should be sent to:       |  There are no fnords in this sig file.
alizard%tweekco%boo@PacBell.COM     |  autoreply to address I posted this
     ^^^ preferred site ^^^         |  from only if you want to wait a
PacBell.COM!boo!tweekco!alizard     |  solstice or two for my answer.
alizard@seer.mystic.com             |              Kallisti!
^^^use ONLY if all else fails       |  PGP2.0 public key available on request

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