HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: v276m8gv@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Eric Frohnapple)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Tacky combat
Date: 15 Apr 92 01:42:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

>i sit around and think about it a lot.  I remembered a three-man melee
>tourney i fought in many years ago, in which i entered the list bearing
>a katana, a spear, and a naginata.  When "lay on" was called, i dropped
>the last two and laid about me with the katana.  Our specific strategy
>was to leg our opponents.  When this worked, i would amble over to my
>abandoned weapons, trade the katana for a spear, and make short work
>of the survivors.  (When it didn't work we got nuked, sometimes while
>i was groping on the ground for a new weapon, but that seems fair. :-)
>I had cleared this with the marshals first, so they weren't surprised.
> 
>Anyway, i was wondering how this practice might be viewed in other areas/
>kingdoms.  Would this even be possible, or would the "discarded" weapons
>be automatically removed from the list?  Would it be considered tacky?
>Silly?  Note that i made no secret of the location, and anyone *else* was
>free to go for one of them, though i only had to chase one person off.
> 
>		--Master Kobayashi Yutaka/Andrew Kobayashi
>		  Carolingia,East/Boston Area,MA,USA




	Well, at least as far as I am concerned, this is a perfectly
acceptable tactic (if not totally period!).  The primary concern that I
would have about taking in a secondary weapon that is not sheathed is that
someone (on the other team) would select one of the weapons to use for
himself.  Other than that, I think that "extra" weapons lying around helps
add a new and interesting dimension to fighting.

Akryn,

Rhydderich Hael/Aethylmark/East (Buffalo, NY)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: wpatton@uhl.uiowa.EDU (Wayne Patton)
Subject: War Calender
Organization: The Internet
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 16:59:09 GMT

The question was asked as to why Lilies is called a civil war. Each year a
different scenario is announced as to how the sides will be chosen. This
year it is called the War of the Roses and pits the summer queens against
the winter queens. (Countesses from other kingdoms are welcome to bring
troops and play as well.) I have had a memory lapse and don't remember last
year's plan, but the year before it was the Laurels vs. the Pelicans. Other
divisions have been based on the shires vs. the baronies and their cantons;
the English vs. the French; etc. Some of us have been advocating pitting
those under 30 against those over 30, but this one hasn't been chosen yet.
We have been roughly alternating between plans that promote major recruiting
and those for which there is less choice of the side on which one will fight.
One of the reasons for this sort of thing is to help prevent the sort of
real divisiveness some folks have expressed concern about with respect to
the "wars of conquest" idea: if we divide the kingdom differently each time,
this year's opponents are likely to be next year's comrades. Come and try
it!
                                Gawain of Miskbridge
                                Shadowdale, Calontir

From: Robert.Fitzmorgan@f213.n170.z1.fidonet.org (Robert Fitzmorgan)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Arts Crowns; Dances
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1992 18:02:45 -0500

J d C	>			-- Justin du Coeur  J d C	>			   Editor, The Letter of Dance

       How can I subscribe?
                                       Robert


Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: U254@sysm.acs.virginia.EDU
Subject: Camp Ovens
Organization: The Internet
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 16:34:00 GMT


Unto the good folk of the Rialto from Landon of Wulfkeep, greetings!

   A few days ago, milord Hrothgar posted requesting information on
period camp ovens or mundane equivalents.  One possibility in the
later catagory (which I mentioned to him by e-mail) is the Dutch
oven.  This set me wondering, however.  I believe that the Dutch
oven itself is an 18th or 19th century refinement, but I suspect that
the method of baking in an iron pot surrounded by coals is much
older.  Does anyone here have an idea of how far back this method
can be traced?

Yours in curiosity--

   Landon of Wulfkeep                 Landon Falls
   Isenfir, Atlantia                  Charlottesville, Virginia, USA

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: cctimar@athena.cas.vanderbilt.edu (Charles)
Subject: Re: What is a Persona?
Organization: Vanderbilt University student of numerology
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 92 16:52:49 GMT

To all upon the Rialto doth Charles send greetings!

Aryk Nusbacher writeth:
> A persona is the identity of a person which is assumed for the purposes of re-
> creation, re-enactment or living history.
> 
> The idea of personas gets big laughs in a lot of parts of California.

One that ne hath no persona, wherefore needeth that one a name?

Why not just be Ashley Chun-Goldfarb, who likes to read about the middle
ages, dabbles in mediaeval crafts, and hits her friends with sticks?
-- 
    -- Charles, student, in Glaedenfeld, Meridies
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: carl@silver.lcs.mit.edu (Carl J.M. Alexander)
Subject: Re: light blows
Organization:  Organization???  
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 16:18:36 GMT

In article <9204161337.AA28267@math.bu.edu> jeffs@math.bu.EDU 
(Jeff Suzuki) writes:
 
F>At the request of Alexander of Kiev, I post the following story
F>[shattered cup story]
F>Fujimoto
 
I don't *think* Fujimoto intended to imply that I have a fetish 
for cup shot stories....  :^)
 
To give Fujimoto's posting some context, he initially sent me the
story in response to my posting several days ago in this thread, 
on why fighters should have to understand some basic physics in
order to authorize.  The relevent part of that posting read:
 
A>For instance, if a blow dents a helm, that means a lot of the
A>blow's energy was spent on deforming the metal--energy that was
A>not transmitted as sudden shock to the wearer's head; thus the
A>wearer might percieve the blow as light.  If all fighters knew
A>this (again, along with the fundamentals of chivalry), then we
A>could see the following dialog fairly often.
A>
A>Fighter X: [throws blow that leaves half-inch dent in Fighter
A>           Y's helm.]
A>Fighter Y: "Light!"
A>Fighter X: "Hold! [approaches Fighter Y] Milord, there's a brand-
A>           new half-inch dent in your helm."
A>Fighter Y: "Oh.  That's why it felt light."  [Fighter Y falls dead.] 
 
Alexander of Kiev 
 
Carl Alexander
carl@silver.lcs.mit.edu
From: dbreece@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Druid)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Help in Gaelic sought
Date: 9 Apr 92 02:20:59 GMT
Article-I.D.: bronze.1992Apr8.212104.25793
Organization: Indiana University


Speaking of Gealic, does anyone have any suggestions for someone
interestting in learning the language on their own?  I've done only a
minimal amount of research on the subject so far, but alas, I've
turned up nothing.

Any suggestions would be extrememly appreciated, as I'm pretty much
stuck!

As always, thanks in advance...



-- 


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dave Breece ("Druid")                     "We are heros, we are dreamers
dbreece@silver.ucs.indiana.edu               of the big dream...
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: ilaine@panix.com (Liz Stokes)
Subject: Re: Generations; "Old, Used"; Thinkwell
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 12:13:17 GMT
Organization: PANIX - Public Access Unix Systems of NY

In article <9204101632.AA26270@inmet.camb.inmet.com> justin@inmet.COM (Justin du Coeur MKA Mark Waks) writes:
>Re: Generations
>
>Vashti cites the usual figure that an average member sticks around for
>3-4 years, and Ilaine takes issue with it.
>
>Thinking about this is rather interesting. Historically, I know that
>Vashti's number is about right -- an SCA "generation", the time it
>takes to turn over a majority of the people in most areas, seems to
>be about three or four years. But looking around today, I'm not sure
>that that's as much the case anymore. Carolingia isn't losing *nearly*
>as many people as it used to, it seems to me, and the ones who are
>being "lost" are only 3/4 gafiating -- most of them still come to
>the occasional event.
>
>So here's a call for observations: are people sticking around longer 
>these days? It looks to me like the proportion of active-for-lifers
>has increased substantially in the last half-decade or so, but that's
>an entirely subjective observation at this point...

	It could be that my own observation is biased. Maybe I only make 
friends with people likely to stay for life (or some reasonlable facsimile
thereof) so I don't notice the people that leave. I can be extraordinarily
unobservant. I have trouble seeing  past the edge of my spinning wheel :)
							-Iliane


-- 
Liz Stokes         |    Ilaine's EZ-garb workshop:
Ilaine de Cameron  |
                   |    "First, take a sheep. Start with a small one ..."
ilaine@panix.com   |
From: SHERMAN%TRLN.DECnet@uncvx1.acs.unc.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: woodcuts of tents
Date: 9 Apr 92 18:34:00 GMT
Organization: The Internet

Greetings to the Rialto from Robyyan.

I believe I've found full bibliographic data for the collection of woodcuts
that Bronwyn mentioned as containing a plate showing tents that look like
dome tents:

Title:         The German single-leaf woodcut, 1550-1600 : a pictorial
                 catalogue / by Walter L. Strauss. New York : Abaris Books,
                 1975.
Description:   3 v. (xv, 1429 p.) : chiefly ill. ; 32 cm.

Notes:         Addenda and errata slip inserted.
               Includes indexes.
               Bibliography: p. 1409-1414.
               Contents:  v. 1. A-J.--v. 2. K-R.--v. 3. S-Z.

ISBN:	       0-913870-02

But I haven't found the plate yet - of the 1429 pages in the 3 volume set,
probably 1400 have at least one woodcut on the page.  It is sorted by
artist - want to give us a hint, Bronwyn? :-)

Also, for those interested, there are two other sets by the same editor -
1500-1550, and 1600-1650(?) (I didn't pay much attention to the ending
date of the OOP set) each of 4 volumes.  Tons of good stuff here - check
it out!

*------------------------------------------------------------------------*
* Robyyan Torr d'Elandris   Kapellenberg, Windmaster's Hill    Atlantia	 *
*------------------------------------------------------------------------*
* Dennis R. Sherman  	             Triangle Research Libraries Network *
* dennis_sherman@unc.edu           Univ. of North Carolina - Chapel Hill *
*------------------------------------------------------------------------*
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: MKNETTEL@kentvm.kent.EDU ("Mary Knettel ", Genevieve)
Subject: M-word: new ruling from Hilary
Organization: The Internet
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 16:31:02 GMT

Greetings to the Rialto and to Gospodin Mikhail Nikolaevich
Kramolnikov from Genevieve du Vent Argent.

Gospodin writes:
"...Alyson Throckmorton, corporate secretary, pointed out that the
reason that autocrats must be members is inherent in their ability
to make contractual obligations for the SCA, Inc.  Protective measures."

Then why do we bother to have seneschals?  I have always been told,
understood, and instructed subordinates (when K. Seneschal) that
seneschals are the legal representative of their branch of the SCA Inc.
and in this role are required to sign all contracts on behalf of their
group.

Either the rules have changed drastically, the corporation is being
overly-redundant in its carefulness, or somebody is disbursing or
hearing information incorrectly.

Or is the insurance company getting overly-restrictive with the SCA?
If there is some mundane, real reason for this new requirement, then
we'll have to comply or find a new insurance company.  If Hilary is
playing legal games with Corpora, I agree whole heartedly with
Mistress Ellisif that this is "thoroughly unreasonable."

I've stayed out of the M-word discussion thus far, my own views becoming
more and more unclear, however it's time to print out the messages
and mail them in to the BOD.

Genevieve du Vent Argent, Seneschal, Marche of Gwyntarian, MidRealm
(former MidRealm Kingdom Seneschal)
Mary Knettel, KSU, Kent, Ohio  mknettel @ kentvm.kent.edu
From: bambi@visenix.UUCP (Hilda)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Explaining Women...
Date: 10 Apr 92 02:21:26 GMT
Reply-To: bambi@visenix.UUCP (Hilda(Bambi) Smith-Beattie)
Organization: Department of Redundancy Department

i herby declare myself ,
open,
to all flattery ,hand kissing and reprsentation in my honor as
i have no true champion in the known world. let it be known
that beatriz de las trenzas is indeed in need of gentle
speeches and handkisses to keep her pleased and pleasing.
with warm smiles in anticipation
beatriz de las trenzas
From: mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: welsh surnames
Date: 16 Apr 92 17:49:40 GMT
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM


Greetings from Arval!  Brigid wrote:

> My sister-in-law is seeking books from which she can get ideas for 
> her name.  She has only gotten a first name and wishes a last.
> She is interested in a welsh persona.  

The best book on the subject is Morgan, T.J., and Prys Morgan, Welsh
Surnames, University of Wales Press, 1985.  It contains many, many dated
examples from the later Middle Ages, and a good introduction on Welsh
naming.  If you can't find it in a library, there is probably a senior
herald in your area who has a copy.

The thumbnail sketch is this:  Before the English conquest of Wales, the
Welsh generally used patronymic naming, i.e., a woman was known as her
father's daughter.  The form of the feminine patronymic was Angharat ferch
Rhys "Angharat daughter of Rhys."  "Ferch" means "daughter", and is
pronounced "verch" with a hard ch as in the German "Bach" or the Yiddish
"chutzpah."   In most formal situtations, a person was identified by her
lineage, so the patronymic is the most formal name.

The Welsh also used other kinds of epithets.  Locative (place of origin)
epithets are formed simply by taking the place name as a surname: Owain
Gwynedd, Macsen Felinfoel, etc.  I suggest using the name of a town or
small settlement, rather than a large district.  Descriptive epithets were
used as well, e.g., Goronwy Goch "Goronwy the Red", Llewelyn Fychan
"Llewelyn the Younger."  If you need a particular epithet translated, send
a note to the herald's mailing list (scahrlds@pucc.princeton.edu), and I'm
sure someone can help you.

If the lady wants a persona after the English conquest or in the areas of
Wales more heavily influenced by the English, then she should probably use
a true surname.  Examples are Pole, Griffith, Jones, etc.  Morgan & Morgan
is very good for this period, as it has many dated examples.  Histories of
medieval Wales would also be useful.

===========================================================================
Arval Benicoeur                                       mittle@watson.ibm.com
From: Robert.Fitzmorgan@f213.n170.z1.fidonet.org (Robert Fitzmorgan)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Why Call Light Blows?
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1992 17:31:11 -0500

JB>.. when one performs all the actions necessary to getting through a
JB> defense and makes>contact and hears
JB>his opponent yell 'light', when everyone KNOWS that the person
JB>swinging the blow didn't HAVE to hold back, in fact was capable of
JB> putting enough force into  JB>his blow to seriously incapacitate a person,
then yelling
JB>'light', to me, is a gentleman's cop-out.

       I would say that IF it is clear that the person delivering the blow 
could have blown you away had they wished but held back out of courtesy then  to
call "Light" is at the very least impolite.  It's also (IMHO) a bit  foolish as
you are in effect telling your oponant to hit you HARD.  It's kinda  like
throwing a deliberate cup shot.  It's legal but it's not very nice.

       This brings to mind another issue.  The ever popular question of what 
exactly constitutes a killing blow.  From some discussions I've had it seems 
that the answer  depends at least partialy on where you are.  Let me say that
I have not fought in very many kingdoms so what I'm saying is somewhat based  on
hearsay but it does seem that different kingdoms do have different ideas on  how
much force is required for a killing blow.  I have heard that Anstaeorrans  are
percived to hit harder than people from other kingdoms.  I am not in a  position
to judge whether these perceptions are valid on not but it would be a  bit odd
if true considering how many Anstaeorrans fight in minimum armor.  I  have
fought several people from Calontier and coulden't tell any difference in  the
way they gave and recived blows.
       Could we here from some people who have fought extensivly in Two or  more
kingdoms?  ARE there regional differences in how blows are called?

                                       Robert
From: cctimar@athena.cas.vanderbilt.edu (Charles)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: SCA Manners outside the SCA
Date: 13 Apr 92 21:11:23 GMT
Organization: Vanderbilt University student of numerology

To all upon the rialto doth Charles send his greetings.

Cinaed de Moray writeth:
> me cringe, but.... after Pennsic, I was constantly manoeveuring to 
> a womans left when walking beside her (from having worn a sword on
> my left side for most of the nine days, and having the lady walk on

I realize that it's old-fashioned, but I was raised with the continental
rule, "lady on the right."  Please do not bother to explain that there was
a different rule in ninetheenth century England: I know that.  This was
the rule used on the continent around the same time.

It is a custom that can be observed very inobtrusively, with practice, and
it is also relatively symmetric, so it is less prone to provoking feminist
wrath than most other courtesies.
-- 
    -- Charles, student, in Glaedenfeld, Meridies
From: Matt.Drury@p0.f69.n363.z1.fidonet.org (Matt Drury)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: An Event!!!!
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 07:18:01 PDT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:363/69.0 - London, Belle Isle FL

 > one come all... Check your Crier for the Details...It's on April 25

What's a "Crier"? <grin> Never heard of that down here in Trimaris...

--  

---------------------------------------------------------------------
"Of all the things I've lost, it's my mind I miss the most."

        Matt Drury  -  via FidoNet Node: 1:363/42
             UUCP:  -  ...tarpit!alfred!business!69.0!Matt.Drury
             ARPA:  -  Matt.Drury@p0.f69.n363.z1.fidonet.org
From: n9040513@henson.cc.wwu.edu (aldridge andrea)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Interactions of the Mundane Kind
Date: 15 Apr 92 01:23:36 GMT
Article-I.D.: henson.1992Apr15.012336.16236
Organization: Western Washington University

Stories...no shit, there we were (oops, how unladylike...sorry).  It was the
last West Kingdom Crown Tournament to be held in An Tir (we became a kingdom
the next Twelfth Night).  The tourney was held in Millersylvania State Park,
just outside our state capital of Olympia, on the southernmost shores of
Puget Sound.  One of our Everett (30-miles-north-of-Seattle) members, Master 
Stormcrow, had built three replica Viking longboats, and brought two of them 
to the site.  On such a beautiful sunny June day, it made perfect sense to go 
for a sail, period style.

Well, as I said, there we were, full crew and full sail bellying in the brisk
wind on each boat, and having a time.  Mundane sailboats were running literal
circles around us, trying to get a good look and figure us out.  Then a nice
big sailboat pulled up casually alongside us.  We sailed neck and neck for a
while as the following conversation ensued (more or less):

US: (Social pleasantries.) My, what a lovely boat you've got.

THEM: Likewise. (Social pleasantries, social pleasantries.) Are you guys in
the SCA?

US: (Reaction of shock.  After all, in those days, it wasn't as well known.)
    Why, gosh, yes!  Youu've heard about us?  How did you know?

THEM: (With big grins) Oh, yeah, we know all about it.  We've got a couple
      of good friends in California who do that. Well, have a nice sail.

...And as they sailed away, the name on the stern of their boat read:

                             BELLATRIX

                       *         *        *

Epilogue:  Last year, after all this time, I saw the Bellatrix in the yacht
harbor at Lake Union in Seattle with a "For Sale" sign on it...for a quarter
of a million dollars.  What price a legend? (*Sigh*)
-- 
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
<>  Andrea Aldridge   IRC:  Folkie   E-Mail: n9040513@henson.cc.wwu.edu   <>
<>  WWU--452 Edens Hall North/Bellingham, WA 98225 USA     206-734-0270   <>
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
From: kuijt@umiacs.umd.edu (David Kuijt)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Welsh jokes
Date: 15 Apr 92 00:56:22 GMT
Organization: UMIACS, University of Maryland, College Park, MD 20742

Yaakov writes:
>...
>There is a conflict of opinion as to what
>the Welsh did with their vowels.  ...  I
>maintain that God gave the Welsh as many vowels
>as he gave anyone else, but they were so
>poor they had to sell them (I think to
>the Hawaiians) or eat them (which is
>why Welsh sounds so much like gagging.)
>
>Yaakov HaMizrachi

My father's father's father is said to have said that we shipped
many of them to Flanders and Friesland ("Haarlem", "Oostgeest")
and the rest to Finland, where they traded us back all their
spare consonants.  This left them with words like "Tuonomiounan"
"Taavistiia" and things like that.


	Dafydd ap Gwystl ap Llewelyn ap Cadwaladr ap Gwyl
	(Welsh)

						David Kuijt
						(Dutch)
	Barony of Storvik			kuijt@umiacs.umd.edu
	Kingdom of Atlantia			(MD,DC,VA,NC,SC)
Organization: Youngstown State University
Date: Monday, 6 Apr 1992 08:12:42 EDT
From: <00123646@ysub.ysu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Isaac Asimov

Anyone have details on last night's death of Isaac Asimov?  What was his SCA
name, if any?
   I know he was also a Mensan, and will attempt to get details there as well.

Vajk
From: jeffs@math.bu.EDU (Jeff Suzuki)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: SCA Digest V5 #187
Date: 13 Apr 92 18:48:34 GMT
Organization: The Internet


Geoffrey de la Iglesia asks:

>I am compiling a list of SCA references in fiction.  

A non-fictional (sorta) oblique reference to the SCA occurred in the
GURPS sourcebook "High Tech", where they mentioned the availability of
high quality medieval style armor, due to the influence of "various
recreation groups"...

Fujimoto
From: dlc@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Dennis Clark)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 15:13:30 GMT
Subject: Re: More membership???
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

ilaine@panix.com (Liz Stokes) writes:

> In article <702797969.F00001@ocitor.fidonet> Ruth.Woodring@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Ruth Woodring) writes:
> >The Society had grown too large????  Too many participants at events???  
> >Well, shucks, we'll just tell the hospitalier to cease welcoming newcomers 
> >then.... in about 5 years, there won't be any members 
> >(most Society members stay only 3-4 years), and that Duke should be happy... 
>   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> 
> 	Where, pray tell, did this most interesting figure come from? From
> among my aquaintance, if they stay after the first year, they are hooked for
> good.

  Hmm.  Well done then!  Only about 25% of the people I know have been in 
more than 5 years.  The vast majority of the folk I knew in the SCA aren't 
in or are only occasional on-lookers anymore.  Old joke, "a generation is 
about 5 years in the SCA."

Kevin
> 							-Ilaine