Newsgroups: bit.listserv.csg-l
Date:         Sat, 26 Dec 1992 19:58:00 GMT
From:         Dag Forssell <0004742580@MCIMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Eileen, Theory

[From Dag Forssell (921226 12.00)]       Eileen Prince (921226)

>Apologies to all. I had meant my last posting to go to Bill but sent it
>to the entire list instead.

This is what the list is for. Bill is not the only one who will
appreciate your thoughtful post. If you want to apologize, do so for EVEN
THINKING of depriving the rest of us of your contributions.

By the way, have you taken the time to read Ed Ford's book "Freedom from
Stress?" What did you think of it? Did you find it helpful? How can such
an introduction be improved? What questions (if any) does it open but not
answer? Ed and I would like to know.

-----------------------------------------------
With reference to the discussion between Rick and Martin, as well as
Bill's and  Oded's postings, I would like to resubmit my chart of Dec 14.

                   What does "THEORY" mean to you?

           APPROACH                   LEVEL OF        TYPE OF
           TO THEORY                  SCIENCE         KNOWLEDGE

Type 1     Hunch, expectation         Common sense /  What works
           based on experience.       Statistical     (sometimes?)
           Intuitive / Formal         research

Type 2     Explanation,               Engineering     Why it works
           prediction, test.          science         (always?)


Type 3     Logical reasoning.         Abstract        Abstraction
                                      science

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Continued to the right.

      METHOD OF            TIME TO          PREDICTION      RESULTS
      LEARNING             LEARN            CAPABILITY

..1   Trial & error /      Long             Poor            Spotty
      data collection


..2   Create theory,       Short            Excellent       Confident
      test theory


..3   Deduction            Short            Depends on      Depends
                                            fit with        fit with
                                            type 2          type 2
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Cause-Effect is in the category of an Engineering science. Type 2.
Information theory etc. is in the category of Abstract science. Type 3.
Control Theory is in the category of an Engineering science. Type 2.

The abstract sciences (math, geometry, information theory, etc., etc.),
have NO connection to Boss REALITY. They cannot be tested, since they are
logical constructs ONLY. Their "validity" and usefulness depends ENTIRELY
on their application in support of a type 2 theory, which DOES have
connection with Boss REALITY.

The Cause-Effect engineering theory has failed more than once, but even
though the experimenters have read Karl Popper, they WANT to interpret
their "data" as supporting their theory. As Jean Luke Picard of "Star
Trek" fame so appropriately commands when someone has made a suggestion:
"Make it so!" "(Control for that perception)!" - "Proof" is found.
(Ref: "Skinners mistake" by W.T. Powers, CSG-l March 3, 1991)

As Rick and Martin now agree, it is the application of an abstract theory
(about which one otherwise can make NO value judgements) to a FAILED
engineering type theory, that created at least some of the previous
disagreements. (Certainly, the abstract theory being applied to the
engineering theory has to be appropriate to be useful).

What is needed above all is sound engineering theory. When it comes to
behavior, it is called PCT. If and when PCT fails once, we will not
ignore Popper, but modify PCT.
---------------------------------------------------------------

In the spirit of the season, I too wish everyone a time of appropriately
chosen perceptual references, allowing yourself and others enough
perceptual degrees of freedom, effective action on whatever Boss REALITY
is out there and satisfying perceptions of it.

Your choice: It's all perception / It's all control / All of the above

Best, Dag
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU