HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cmk@athena.mit.edu (Charles M Kozierok)
Subject: Cito and John (was--Re: Cecil signs :-( :-( :-()
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 20:33:12 GMT

In article <1993Jan12.180639.19271@cs.cornell.edu> tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer) writes:
>In article <1993Jan12.164717.29452@athena.mit.edu> cmk@athena.mit.edu (Charles M Kozierok) writes:
>>
>>so then i went and looked at the numbers. Olerud beats Fielder by 40 points
>>on AVG and 50 on OBA. but the slugging percentage really surprised me. they
>>are about the same!
>
>There are three major *real* reasons for the Surprise(!) element here,
>and one which shouldn't be a reason but probably is.  First, Olerud
>has yet to be allowed to play a full season.  He has never played more
>than 139 games in a season.  (Corollary: Cito is an idiot.  Olerud is
>young, sturdy, and his backup is Pat Tabler.) 

the platoon with Tabler has never made any sense to me.
and the other thing i would love to understand is: why does Cito continue
not to let him play against LH pitching? i had read somewhere that
Olerud hit lefties quite well. and even if not, isn't it time he learned?
i mean this is a guy they kept on the roster even with no minor league
experience. if they could take that much of a chance, why not let him
try his luck over a whole season?

there is also the vicious circle where a player never gets to see
lefties, so he hits them poorly when he does bat against them, and then
the (not too bright) manager confirms his "suspicions" and again
keeps the guy away from lefties. i wonder how
many careers have been ruined (or at least delayed) by this.

give Olerud the playing time this year, Cito!

--
charles
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: erics@sco.COM (eric smith)
Subject: Re: Hall of Fame voting (read - Disgusted)
Organization: The Santa Cruz Operation, Inc.
Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1993 23:13:22 GMT


lbarnes@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Laura L. Barnes) writes:

>Whsat did Reggie ever do well except mouth off to the press, appear in 1970's 
>and early 1980's TV shows, have a candy bar named after him, fight with Billy 
>MArtin, and hit home runs in the post-season?

563 regular-season home runs? It used to be that 400 made you a lock
for the HOF; now that's no longer true, thanks to Dave Kingman and
Darrell Evans. But 500+ has to be considered a superlative career
accomplishment; only fourteen have done it, and only five have hit
more than Reggie.

-----
Eric Smith
erics@sco.com
erics@infoserv.com
CI$: 70262,3610
From: chee1l5@Jane.UH.EDU (sam lane)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Klesko/Arizona League
Date: 12 Jan 1993 17:05:40 GMT
Organization: University of Houston
Reply-To: chee1l5@Jane.UH.EDU
NNTP-Posting-Host: jane.uh.edu


>>I read that Ryan Klesko was playing this winter in the Arizona League. He
>>supposedly was tearing the league up with 11 homers in ~ 115 AB's and over
>>a .600 slugging %.  The next closest HR total was 7. This certainly is

>If you have the full stat line for him and the league I'll run it
>through my MLE code. The lines you give sound consistent with his
>career minor league totals.
>
>Clay D.

I sent Klesko's stats for the fall Arizona League to Mr.D

  BA  G  AB  R  H  2B  3B  HR  RBI  HBP  BB  SO  SB  CS  SLG  OBP
.270 39 126 29 34  4   0   11  26   2   26!  26  7   3  .563 .395 

but didn't have the league averages to normalize, so he ran his MLE code, for
lack of a better approximation, assuming the Arizona Fall league which 
contains mostly top AA and AAA prospects was identical to the '92 PCL (similar
altitude parks). His MLE code produced for '93 Klesko: 
  ab   h  db tp hr  bb sb cs   ba   oba  sa
 123  28  3  0  8  21  5  2  .228 .340 .447

Clearly, if the AFL's talent pool is less than the PCL, these numbers go down.

The ba was lower than I expected, but if the .787 OPS projection is close
to right, this 21 year old looks pretty good. Maybe i'll write Bobby Cox
with these numbers so we'll never have to see the Bream/Hunter platoon again.

Other guys I noticed with high winter ball OPS's
                          League    AB   H  HR  BB   BA   OBP  SLG  OPS
Scott Hatteburg (Red Sox)  AFL      94  37  3   16  .394 .477 .585 1.062   
Bob Hamelin (Royals)       AFL     160  52  7   24  .325 .416 .550  .966
Troy Neel (A's)           Mexico   142  49 12   27  .345 .453 .669 1.122
(gee, I guess Gary may be right about Neel).
and of course the ringer
Juan Gonzalez (Rangers)    PR       59  22  7    6  .373 .431 .864 1.294


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sam Lane         ~ If I could just play ping pong...just think of the babes. 
Univ.of Houston  ~ 
Dept.of Chem.Eng.~ "I'm pretty sure he's an idiot, but I can't *prove* it."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball,soc.women,soc.men
From: hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu
Subject: RE: Women Sports Reporters
Organization: Clark University
Date: 9 JAN 93 03:36:44 GMT

Thomas Kettler writes:

>Being a Bengal fan as well as a Expo fan, I remember what occured very well
>and the statement that [Wyche] treated the one woman reporter (Denise Tom of
>USA Today) on that Monday night game at Seattle differently from the men
>depends on your point of view. He wouldn't allow her in the locker room so
>in that sense, she was treated differently, 

Right.

>but instead had her ask for any player she wanted to talk to after the game.
>Every person that she wanted to talk with was required to talk with her
>after the player was dressed so she had just as much free reign to talk with
>players as any male reporter so in this sense, she wasn't treated
>differently. 

Wrong.  She was obliged to do her job under different circumstances than her
male colleagues.  It's not clear that her access was equal in quality to that
of the men who were allowed inside the locker room. 

Heather
HHENDERSON@vax.clarku.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: drw3l@delmarva.evsc.Virginia.EDU (David Robert Walker)
Subject: Re: rule-question
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 14:50:17 GMT

In article <1i9719INN6i2@mailgzrz.TU-Berlin.DE> frodo@marie.physik.tu-berlin.de (Frank Wagner) writes:
>1) Why no infield-fly is called, if there is a runner on 1st only ?

The purpose of the IFR is to prevent a cheap double play by the
defense. With 0 or 1 out, and two runners forced, if the batter pops
up, and the runners do what they are supposed to (hold their
position), and an infielder intentionally misses the ball, then an
easy force exists at third and second; double play.

The batter can, and should, be running to first after hitting the ball, 
no matter where he hits it. If there is only a runner on first, and the 
batter pops up, and the runner does what he is supposed to (hold) and
the batter does what he is supposed to (run), and an infielder
intentionally misses it, they will record one out at second. Since
that is no more than they would have gotten by catching the ball,
there is no advantage for the defense, and it is not illegal.

If the batter is lazy, though, and doesn't run out his popup because
he is throwing his bat down or cussing at himself, the defense can
record a double play; and the offense will deserve it, because they
didn't do what they were supposed to do.

>2) If a fly ball is caught in foul-territory, is it dead or may the
>   runners tag up and try to reach the next base ?

Runners may tag up and try to advance on any caught fly, including
fouls.

Clay D.

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: kbanaian@bernard.pitzer.claremont.edu (King Banaian)
Subject: Re: Any news on Frankie Rodriguez?
Organization: Pitzer College
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 22:27:32 GMT

In article <C0C9v6.Hw0@news.iastate.edu> sckelm@iastate.edu (Steven C Kelm) writes:
>Does anyone have news on Frankie Rodriguez, former number one pick of the 
>Red Sox?  I vaguely remember that he had converted to pitching from his
>position at SS, or was this only an experiment?  Where is he now and what
>is his projected future with the Red Sox? 

Frankie has indeed converted.  His numbers were 12-7, 3.09 with 148.2 IP, 
125 H, 65 BB, 129 K.

He unfortunately cannot tell the difference between 14 and 18 year old 
females.  He apparently was caught in corpus flagrante with the former 
variety and now faces statutory rape charges.  The (very) young woman was 
not claiming use of force.  I have not heard if the case has been resolved (
perhaps my friends on the Red Sox mailing list can provide more details).

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: nlu@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: Cecil signs :-( :-( :-(
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 07:47:01 GMT

In article <1993Jan11.072048.3770@athena.mit.edu> frisch1@athena.mit.edu (Jonathan Katz) writes:
>You think Fielder is barely above average!!!
>
>I am a Mets fan, and I would love to see him on the Mets.  He is clearly an
>impact player.  Better than Bonds, no.  But a star?, yes, definitely!

Well, if you define "star" as barely above average, yes.

Good offensive first basemen are easy to find; and Fielder really isn't
anything particularly special, when you compare him to other first basemen.

(Funny, I thought that according to Scott Barman, the Mets fans are perfectly
happy with Eddie Murray. :-))

===============================================================================
GO CALIFORNIA ANGELS!
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)
From: .Unify.Com.wm@unify.uucp (William Morehouse)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Hey Giants fans!
Date: 8 Jan 93 21:31:53 GMT
Reply-To: .Unify.Com.wm@unify.uucp (William Morehouse)
Organization: Unify Corporation, Sacramento, CA, USA


Giants fans --  The last piece of the Jack Clark trade 
is now gone with Jose Uribe signing with Houston.  Clark
was traded at the end of the '84 season to St. Louis for
David Green, Jose Uribe, and somebody else whose name
escapes me at the moment. (I think it was a pitcher)
 
Remember Tom Haller (Giants GM at the time) commenting on 
this trade?  "David Green is just as good as Jack Clark"
Jeez, The Giants didn't even really know how old Green was.  

I'll never forget checking the stats about 2/3 of the way
throught the '85 season.  At one point, The Ripper had 70 
rbi and Green had 7.  Sigh.  Say what you will about Clark,
but he was a monster at the plate when he was in a groove.
Not bad in the clutch, either.

The first baseball game I ever saw was in 1976 I believe,
Giants against the Pirates in Candlestick when the 'Stick
was still artificial turf.  Clark hit a game tying home run
in the 10th.  He became an instant hero to this 9-year old.
The game ended in the 12th with Gary Thommason (anybody
remember him?) hitting a home run.  

With my first baseball game being so exciting, I was hooked for
life.  Anybody else have a good story about their first ballgame?


- Bill Morehouse
wm@unify.com
 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Subject: Burks and related mediocies
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 01:48:22 GMT

In article <875.02LZ300r01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> dba30@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (David Allison) writes:
>It wasn't so much that they chose Hatcher over Burks.  I think the fact
>that Burks wanted a GUARANTEED 3.something salary and was offered a
>2.something with incentives, but turned the offer down had a lot to do
>with it.  It makes me wonder about his back when he out right refused an
>incentive based contract.  I wouldn't want to guarantee him over 3 mil.
>either.

Burks just signed an incentive based contract with the White Sox -- $500K
with $1.5 million+ in incentives.

The headline was "White Sox seek right-field cure."  God forbid they should
look as far as their bench, where Warren Newson missed his seventh straight
season in professional baseball with a .400+ OBA with a pathetic OBA of .387.
Despite getting no playing time.  He only got seven PA against LHP, and had
a single and three walks.  Career, in the majors, he has .400+ OBA against
both LHP and RHP; for RHP at least, that's with over 300 PA.  Okay, he hits 
for no power, so he'd be a horrible man to
bat, say, fifth (which was where he was for the majority of his plate
appearances).  But it's frustrating to see the Sox refuse to give him a
chance while they fiddled with Mike Huff and Dan Pasqua.

Jerome Holtzman's column waxed poetic about Reggie Jackson, but kept harping
on his .262 batting average.  Then he capped it off by calling the Veterans'
Committee more intelligent than the BBWAA.  I think this was Ron Santo's last
year of eligibility.  I believe Niekro didn't make it this time around--I
think the first-timers must've blackballed him.

In other news, the Braves signed Pecota for something like two years, $1.4M.
My guess is that they'll be disappointed unless Pendleton is injured.  This
is the kind of signing that will suck up time from Blauser.  Is Blauser
really that bad?  What were his DAs?  The Stats Zone Ratings for him were
slightly above average, which would make him only slightly below average
when you start counting his errors -- assuming ZR has any relevance to
reality.
-- 
ted frank                     | thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu 
standard disclaimers          | void where prohibited
the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: Hall of Fame voting (read - Disgusted)
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 17:17:32 GMT

In article <1993Jan11.164722.27758@athena.mit.edu> frisch1@athena.mit.edu (Jonathan Katz) writes:
>>Let's put it this way -- can you name a single pitcher as good as Niekro
>>who *isn't* in the Hall?

>Well, just off the top of my head, how about Kaat.  I know he didn't reach the
>somewhat magical 300 wins, but he has 287 (anyone know if that's right?),
>and a much better ERA.

So, which parks did he pitch in?  And, no, Kaat is *not* better than
Niekro.  He had a few good years, and a whole lot that were barely
above average, and quite a few below average.  

Remember: ERA is related to your park.  

Roger

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: djcoll04@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Subject: Re: Jays will repeat!!!
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 22:23:22 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville

In article <1993Jan9.050806.22234@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca>, maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard) writes:
> Alfredo Griffin has resigned with the "best" team in baseball.
> 
> 93 WS is now in the bag.
> 
> rm

It was already in the bhance of any of the pennant winners to repeat.

The Jays have the best cc 

WS is likely too.
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computer Network
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 00:48:57 CST
From: steve eliason <MV013374@NDSUVM1.BITNET>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: The Minnesota Twins

       I just want to say I am a big Twins fan and wish them the best of
luck this year. I predict that they will be untouchable if and only if
they get their hands on a decent pitcher.


                            -------->GO TWINS IN '93
                            -------->Hi! To all you Twins fans out there.



Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: cmk@athena.mit.edu (Charles M Kozierok)
Subject: Re: All-time All-Star trades (ATAS)
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 02:38:02 GMT

In article <1iviu5INNpqn@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> dxf12@po.CWRU.Edu (Douglas Fowler) writes:
>
>     More in this continuing pre-season saga.  I'll let some of these sink
>in, and do "reports" from spring training sites in a few days.

i love these lists. keep it up, Doug.

i can add one to the list, assuming it qualifies:

San Diego & Toronto:
To Jays: OF Joe Carter and 2B Roberto Alomar
To Pads: 1B Fred McGriff and SS Tony Fernandez

my friends in TO and i still refer to this as simply "the trade".
i can't remember as big a trade in the last 10 years involving a straight
swap of top players for top players (as opposed to the 1 star for a whole
bunch of players, money, draft picks, etc. trade which is much more common now).

--
charles
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: spira@panix.com (Greg "Sarcasm Is A Way Of Life" Spira)
Subject: Re: SMOKING BANS at ballparks?
Organization: Boo!  
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 02:00:03 GMT

In <wall-120193170746@elvis.swarthmore.edu> wall@cc.swarthmore.edu (Matthew Wall) writes:

>Cheers for the Orioles. I don't care if it's "open air", smokers, the smoke
>gets in my eyes and lungs and on my clothes as much as it would indoors,
>and it's one of the few things I loath about going to the park.

Actually, I think it's worse outdoors, sometimes.  It's one thing when the
smoke is in the air, and quite another when it's being blown in your face
from a person in front of you at 20 mph.  I have gotten sick as a result
of smoke like that at Fenway several times.

Greg
From: dan@nervous.mv.com (Dan Rathbun)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Franco & Radinsky?
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 93 16:20:11 EST
Organization: Dept of Redundancy Dept

Has anyone heard anything regarding the status of Julio Franco's health?
I had heard (I think), that the Rangers are going to DH him fulltime this
year. But I was curious if his wheels are back underneath him!  Anyone
know if he's playing winter ball?

    My other question is about the Chicago White Sox.  Anyone know who
their gonna give the closer job to this year? Scott Radinsky seemed to
show well last year when they gave him the game. But I believe Thigpen
is still lurking around Comisky also. And they gave Roberto Hernandez a
good long look late last year.  Anyone heard which way their going to
go with this?

                                     Curiously,

                                           Dan
From: luigi@sgi.com (Randy Palermo)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Who was drafted befor "Big Hurt"? (Was: Re: Clark v Thomas)
Date: 12 Jan 93 16:29:14 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc., Mountain View, CA

In article <steph.726791637@pegasus.cs.uiuc.edu> steph@pegasus.cs.uiuc.edu (Dale Stephenson) writes:
>In <1ispngINNg3a@lynx.unm.edu> kbos@carina.unm.edu (K. Mitchell Bose) writes:
>[...]
>
>>The players drafted before Thomas were:
>
>>Ben McDonald, Orioles
>>Tyler Houston, Braves
>[...]
>ARRGGGGHHH!!!
>Wouldn't Frank Thomas have looked good in a Braves uniform?
>-- 
No, not from where I sit. 

Go Giants
luigi
--
Randy Palermo   luigi@csd.sgi.com    Fax: (415)961-6502
Silicon Graphics Computer Systems, 2011 N. Shoreline Blvd Mt. View, CA 94039
"Play an accordion, go to jail. That's the LAW"
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball

I may be looking through orange tinted glasses.  On the other hand, these
are some of the factors that need to be looked at:

o Clark plays 1/2 his games in a pitcher's park where the wind often keeps
  balls in

o For many years Clark's RBI total may not compare with Thomas because Clark
  Had Jeffery Leonard and Chili Davis in the lineup with him.  Then, after
  these guys were gone Clark had Mitchell and Williams.  You can't always
  get tons of RBIs when you are in the middle of a sweet lineup.

o Last season Clark had no protection at all in the lineup.  Clark is a 
  very competitive, agressive player.  He'd rather put the ball in play
  than leave the bat on his sholder.  As such his numbers for '92 are
  worse than previous years.  I look for much better this year with Bonds
  and Williams (assuming Bonds takes the pressure off of Williams who is
  a bit of a head case).

o I think Clark has the best left handed swing in the game today.

For all that, Thomas is also a hell of a player.  You may be correct, I 
simply have not seen him play as much as I've seen Clark play.

Don Boell

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: Hall of Fame voting (read - Disgusted)
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 03:11:16 GMT

In article <1it9cjINNlu7@lynx.unm.edu> kbos@carina.unm.edu (K. Mitchell Bose) writes:
>In article <C0pKxy.FrB@panix.com> spira@panix.com (Greg Spira) writes:

>>But why is it that people have such blinders on when it comes to Nolan
>>Ryan?  It makes Don Mattingly syndrome look like a minor thing by
>>comparison.

>Do you mean to say that you object to the idea of Nolan Ryan in the Hall?

I think he's just reacting to people who put Ryan on their all-time
first team's starting rotation and leave off Seaver or Carlton or 
Gibson or Marichal or Koufax...

>If I were a voter, I'd vote for Ryan because:

>1) He showed remarkable durability _as a power pitcher_ in the modern era.
>   Fewer than 20 pitchers have pitched in as many games as Ryan; only Cy
>   Young has started more, and by the end of his career might end up number
>   four in terms of innings pitched, behind only Cy Young, Walter Johnson,
>   and Pud Galvin.

Well, that's nice, but durability alone won't get you there, nor will
power alone.

>2) After 5000 innings, he still throws a hard fastball, and is still a feared
>   strikeout pitcher.

Does that win games?    

>3) Ryan is twelfth in wins and third in losses; Niekro is fourteenth in wins
>   and fourth in losses.  I don't see W-L Pct. as any kind of factor.

Even accounting for team?  I think Niekro's were a bit worse on average.

>4) Believe it or not, he has an outside shot at 6000 strikeouts.

HOF voters go for that...

>5) He is (or was, at the time I saw the last numbers) the hardest pitcher to
>   hit _in history_.  

Again, if you let the runs score, that's not worth much.  Ryan doesn't
have the ERA to match that historical distinction, which suggests that
it's at least partly a distinction of the "gee whiz" variety.

>6) Seven no-hitters.

That's what the Hall is for.

>Ryan's no Whitey Ford or Lefty Grove.  But he can be in my Hall anytime.

Mine too!  But if we come up with a Hall of REALLY Great, we'll have 
to leave him out.

Roger

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball