HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,sci.environment,alt.activism,soc.culture.tamil
Subject: Re: (Re-post) URGENT Appeal: World Bank Funding of the Sardar Sarovar Project
Date: 12 Oct 1992 23:48:49 GMT
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
Reply-To: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu

In article <1992Oct12.215613.22312@cs.wisc.edu>, adve@cs.wisc.edu (Vikram S. Adve) writes:
=WHAT YOU CAN DO:
=        If you would like to include your name in a list of people
=	opposed to funding of the project, send e-mail to
=                sign-narmada@nacho.cs.wisc.edu
=        giving your FULL NAME and COMPLETE POSTAL ADDRESS.
=	This must reach us before Wednesday, October 14.
=
=
=We (names and e-mail addresses below) are collecting e-mail signatures
=of those opposing the Sardar Sarovar Project. We will collect these
=signatures until Wednesday, October 14, and send copies of these to:
=
=1. Mr. Lewis Preston, President, The World Bank
=2. Mr. J.S. Bajpai, Executive Director for India, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka
=   at the World Bank
=3. Deborah Moore, Environmental Defense Fund.

Do any of these people have the faintest idea how easy it is to counterfeit
e-mail?  More to the point, can we hope that the folks at the World Bank will
realize that the signatures on this "petition" won't be worth the disk space
they take up?
=---------------------------------------------------------------------------
=We are opposed to the World Bank funding the Sardar Sarovar Project because:
=
=--  The project will submerge tens of thousands of acres of forests
=    and farms, destroy fisheries, increase disease, and force more 
=    than 100,000 tribal and rural people off their land;

We're just supposed to take the word of these petition-mongers that these
claims are valid?

Yes, folks, check your brain at the door and send in your electronic mail
signature.  SHEESH!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL

Disclaimer:  Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS.  That's what I get paid for.  My
understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below).  So
unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my
organization responsible for it.  If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to
hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it.
From: sb0i+@andrew.cmu.edu (Sugato Bhattacharyya)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: More about India
Date: 7 Oct 92 18:15:44 GMT
Organization: Graduate School of Industrial Administr., Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

While the discussion on the net has brought out various points of view
on how women are treated in India versus the U.S., I am disappointed by
the use of the term 'eve teasing' (or 'eave teasing' as used by the
smart assed). As far as I am concerned, the term is used in India to
make light of a situation that can only be described as harrassment.
There is a big difference. "Teasing an eve", literally interpreted, can
be good fun for all concerned, harrassing a woman in a bus or on the
road is a wholly different matter altogether. So please, can we just
call a spade a spade first and avoid the use of this ugly piece of
euphemism invented by maladjusted males?

In addition, I would like to hear from the Indian women using the net as
to why they think the situation is as it is in India. The first thing
that crops up in my mind is the lack of adequate mixing between the
sexes from early ages. However, I doubt that this is the sole
explanation: I have personally seen stone-age attitudes toward women
expressed by men who have gone to school in a coeducational environnment
all their lives. Any takers?

With respect to the person who would condemn the practice of 'men
picking up women at bars' as being an example of the terrible attitude
of men toward women here, there's only one thing to say: Grow up! Why is
it that some people pass through puberty and still never realize the
difference between consensual actions and non-consensual ones? If one
has a problem with the style of social interactions in the US for
whatever reason, he has every right to avoid that style himself.
However, such an objection does not bestow the right to make assinine
comparisons.

Finally, for the real traditional minded, let me remind you that almost
a hundred years ago, when Swami Vivekananda came to the US, he was asked
about what was it that struck him most about the US. While I cannot
quote directly what he said due to the lack of suitable references, the
gist of his answer was that he was struck by the opportunity the country
offered to women and the possibilities of progress thereby. While its
easy to look back and find fault with lots of things of that time
period, it is striking to note that the basic idea that women are more
than sex objects to be harrassed found expression in lots of things that
were apparent to a visitor from India. Maybe the newly arrived could a
learn a thing or two by keeping their eyes open.

I hope that those who would be apologists for the Indian male's
attitudes toward women as expressed every day on the buses of Delhi and
elsewhere would do some thinking about their own attitudes and try to
get to know some women as individuals. Maybe then they'll realize that
although all is not well in this society, women get a far better deal in
everyday life here than they do in India today.
From: bhatnagr@ucunix.san.uc.edu (Raj Bhatnagar)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: BM-RJB issue (more developments)
Date: 13 Oct 92 22:01:53 GMT
Organization: University of Cincinnati

In article <1992Oct13.184703.29503@csrd.uiuc.edu> ghosh@sp1.csrd.uiuc.edu (Sanjoy Ghosh) writes:



>Nobody likes being swamped by outsiders, and made to feel like second 
>class citizens in their land.  And that is exactly what would have
>hsppened in Kashmir if the gates had been opened.  

Did the swamping take place in Himachal Pradesh, a place very similar
in this respect to J&K except for the dominant religion?

>Been true in Bombay,
>Calcutta, and Shillong at least.  

Is it something undesirable that Bombay Calcutta and Shillong have become
cosmopolitan Indian cities instead of being Maharashtrian, Bangali, and
Assamese cities alone? When people can migrate from place A to place B
and vice versa, it generally results in more opportunities being made
available to people of both places. Kashmir would have been more prosperous
if it had been free for other Indians also to move into, invest and create
industry etc. and other opportunities. 

>Kashmiris being such a small population
>they would have gone the way of the aborigines in no time. 

Did it happen to Goa, HP, Sikkim, etc? No. Then why Kashmir?
The only reason is that Islamic fundamentalists did not want 
Muslim majority situation in Kashmir to be diluted by even a
small delta amount.

> Don't see how
>that could be avoided.


As I said earlier, look at HP, Goa, Sikkim, and other small states
and you will see how.


>How many Kashmiris have said they are a part of India?  And how many 
>have said they would unconditionally be part of India?

Well, all those who said so are being driven and "cleansed" out of
Kashmir for the last 40+ years.



>> underdeveloped, but that is not point of discussion here.

>Sanjoy Ghosh


---raj
From: arkesh@informix.com (Arkesh Tripathi)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Test
Date: 15 Oct 92 21:21:15 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.
Originator: arkesh@tcninfo

This is my first post on net for test only.
If this works OK,then guys/gals be perpared.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: usubrama@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Uma M Subramanian)
Subject: Re: More About India
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 14:26:40 GMT

My previous post didn't have all the relevant parts of the article to which
I was responding. I include the missing parts verbatim even though the
headers are not reproduced by the rnews program..

>(some Sree something-or-the-other writes)
>
>> (Gayathri K. writes):
>> Ever wondered why so many "heroes" of Indian movies start courting
>>their heriones by teasing them in public, running after them stupidly
>>and giving them as much trouble as possible?
>
>   You forgot to add something else. Our heroine LOVES that
>   situation and encourages (in most cases) and encourages
>   the hero to do that.

Bullshit!

It is the male fantasy of the director, the script writer and the rest of
of the crew that makes them concoct such *sick* plots. Of course it sells
because it panders to the male fantasy of the populace. Stupid as some
college girls are, some of come to believe that this is an acceptable
and enjoyable way of interaction between men and women.

>>
>>such a "macho" act....and why many such movies become box-office hits. Is
>                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>    That itself shows that we (both men and women) like some part of teasing.

This is the idiotic visceral thinking of the rapist culture -- that women
enjoy all this animalistic exhibition of the hormone level of the male
beast in heat.

>
>>
>>Gayathri.
>
>    Sree

Uma Subramanian
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: ghosh@sp1.csrd.uiuc.edu (Sanjoy Ghosh)
Subject: Re: Unions and strikes (Re: On our specimen chiefminister Jyothi Basu...)
Organization: Univ of Illinois, Center for Supercomputing R&D, Urbana, IL
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 92 17:29:44 GMT

(Sanjiva Prasad) writes:

>In fact, I brought up the point to say
>that *EVEN IF some of the participants had felt that the ends justified
>the means, they would have thought twice about using intimidation in the
>context of the Quit India movement*.  

Don't you think that depends which side you were on.  Don't you think the 
people that the demonstrations were directed against felt intimidated.  
Mobs that size letting their anger against you be quite apparent, with 
their wrath barely controlled would intimidate me, I am sure.  Again, 
the point being you can't avoid the element of subjectivity in all such 
judgements.

>The French farmers get enormous state subsidies (probably
>the largest). 

Who in Europe doesn't?  What about Airbus.  French farmers may be subsidised 
more than Airbus, but that's like children caring for their parents.  High-tech
industries of tomorrow have to take care of the declining industries of today.

>The Economist, which can be quite funny, ran a cover recently
>titled (Imagine) "Europe in His Hands" showing a French farmer.  

So what's new.  The British have always been famous for their snooty, snobbish,
stuffed-shirt attitudes.  What cheek from people whose country is probably
in the worst possible mess in all of Europe.

>I haven't heard of C programmers in Silicon Valley digging up highways or
>disrupting banking transactions to express their fear of joblessness.

No they don't have to to.  Because they are on the inside track in Washington.
Bill Clinton who seems all set to take over, has been talking about investing 
in infrastructure.  He has been specifically mentioning the layoffs in 
California, defense industry layoffs.  What do you think that is other than 
a bid to use public money to re-employ C programmers.  I am not saying its a 
bad idea, though.

Sanjoy Ghosh
From: DXA4@psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Muslims will start an Armed Rebellion
Date: 15 Oct 92 15:28:43 GMT
Article-I.D.: psuvm.92289.112844DXA4
Organization: Penn State University

In article <1992Oct15.082804@IASTATE.EDU>, jakhan@IASTATE.EDU (Javed Ahmed Khan)
says:
>
>This is in response to the article posted by indu@iss700.Columbia.NCR.COM ()
>with the above title:
>
>The only way to rid India of these and other cancerous organisations is to
>prevent conditions from developing which cause these organisations to take
>root.
>We could also decide to ban these organisations; but the concensus should be
>to ban *all* such organisations. The likely candidates for such a step would
>be:
>IUML,Akali Dal,BJP,RSS,ISS,Adam Sena,Shiv Sena,MCC,PWG,........and the list

How can you club together the organizations like BJP and RSS with ISS. You do
not have a slightest idea what distinguishes these organizations from each
other. While ISS is an anti-national organization of fanatic muslims, which has
been propped up and supported by Pakistan -India's arch enemy, and its primary
goal is to create pre-partition type conditions to create a mini-Pakistan in
Kerala. RSS is patriotic organization of nationalist HIndus and is committed to
work for India's interests only, it is not anti-muslim, it is against all those
activities or ideologies which are against the India's integrity, and such acti
vities are organized by & originated from the elements in Muslim & Hindu commun
ities both.At present RSS is the most widespread, strongest, and most respected
organization in India. Whether people accept this fact or not, or whether they
like it or not, that is different issue. But to comapre RSS with treacherous
organizations like ISS and IUML is ridiculous. Same goes with BJP which is
a nationalist political party, and committed for the India's interests. This is
what contrasts these two organizations from other organizations (in the above
list) which are either striving for sectarian and communal causes or committed
to dismember India into pieces, and to achieve these objectives, these groups
and organizations are resorting to senseless violent means and killing innocent
people.

Dinesh Agrawal...
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: dinesh@civic.ece.cmu.edu (Dinesh D. Gaitonde)
Subject: FREE Chitra Visweswaran Concert (SPIC-MACAY)
Organization: Carnegie Mellon University
Distribution: soc
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 22:58:45 GMT


**********************************************************************
				   
		   SPIC-MACAY (Pittsburgh Chapter)
				   
	    Society for the Promotion of Indian Classical
		   Music and Culture Amongst Youth
				   
			   Invites you to a
		  Bharatanatyam Dance Performance by
				   
			  CHITRA VISWESWARAN
	     one of India's foremost Bharatnatyam dancers
		      accompanied by her troupe
				   
				   
			  ADMISSION IS FREE
				   
		     Mellon Institute Auditorium
			  4400 Fifth Avenue
			 Pittsburgh, PA 15213
		    Friday, October 16, 7:30 p.m.
				   
			 Sponsored in part by
	   Carnegie Mellon's Graduate Students Organization
	    For additional information please send mail to
			 macay@andrew.cmu.edu
		      or call Dinesh Gaitonde at
			    (412) 421-8345
	      Please send in your voluntary donations to
			      SPIC-MACAY
		      c/o Skibo Information Desk
		      Carnegie Mellon University
			  5000 Forbes Avenue
			 Pittsburgh, PA 15213
				   
**********************************************************************
				   
				   
			 CHITRA VISWESHWARAN

Chitra Visweswaran trained initially under T. N. Rajalakhsmi of the
Tanjore School at Calcutta, India. She also studied under Vazhuvur
Ramaiah Pillai at Madras, India for a number of years. She has given
recitals in major dance and music festivals all over India and abroad.
She conducts a school in Madras, "Chidambaram", where she imparts
training in dance.

Her dancing is noteworthy for an ability to register subtle nuances
and the leisurely exposition of abhinaya numbers. Her movements are
expansive and maintain an artistic balance.

Chitra Visweswaran was awarded the Sangeet Natak Academy award in 1988
by India's premier Performing Arts Academy. She was also awarded the
Padmashree - Indian Government's prestigious award for excellence, in
1991.



		    DIRECTIONS TO MELLON INSTITUTE


Coming by 79 South:
	Take 279 south to Pittsburgh.
	Take exit for 376 East for Monroeville.
	Take exit for Forbes Avenue.
	Turn left on Bellefield (Forbes turns two-way  here).
	Mellon Auditorium is on the right at the intersection of Fifth
	and Bellefield.


Coming by 79 North:
	Take 279 north to Pittsburgh.
	Just past the Fort Pitt Tunnel, take the exit for 376 East
	(Monroeville).
	Take exit for Forbes Avenue.
	Turn left on Bellefield (Forbes Av. turns into a two-way
	street here).
	Mellon Auditorium is on the right at the intersection of Fifth and
	Bellefield.

Coming by 76 west/east or 22 west:
	Take 376 west to Pittsburgh.
	Right after the squirrel hill tunnel, take Squirrel hill exit.
	At the light, go straight on Forward Avenue.
	At next light, turn left on Shady.
	Continue till Fifth Avenue, turn left.
	Mellon Auditorium is on the left at the intersection of Fifth and
	Bellefield.


Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: chandra@cannelloni.cis.ohio-state.edu (B Chandrasekaran)
Subject: Re: MORE ABOUT INDIA / INDIAN WOMEN ARE TREATED FAR BETTER THAN HERE.
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 01:02:31 GMT

In article <1b1mghINNlj5@charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu> vivek@ecst.csuchico.edu (Vivek R. Prabhu) writes:
........
>there is a woman being raped here in the U.S.. As well as the fact that in
>every 5 minutes there is a child dying of starvation here again in U.S..
>
This amounts to about 100,000 children dying of *starvation* per year. 
Where did you get this statistics?  Pl cite a reliable source.
From: rajiv@me.uta.edu (Rajiv Chakravarti)
Subject: A GHAZAL BY MOMIN KHAN MOMIN ......
Organization: none
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 17:48:02 GMT

Hello friends, 	

	Here's a very beautiful ghazal by Momin Khan Momin. I'm posting
this on the request of a fellow netter. Hope you enjoy this.

=====================================================================

	royaa karenge aap bhi pehroN isi tarah
	aTkaa kaheeN jo aap ka dil bhi meri tarah
[[ pehroN = for a long time, from hindi "prahar" ]

	aata naheeN hai woh to kisi dhab se daav meiN
	banti naheeN hai milne ki uske koi tarah
[[ daav meiN aana = to obtain something ]]

	tashbeeH kis se dooN ke tarahdaar ki mere
	sab se niraali vazh hai sab se nayi tarah
[[ tashbeeh = comparison/similarity; tarahdaar = charm, beauty;
   vazh = condition, composition ]]

	mar chuk kaheeN ke tu gham-e-hijraaN se chooT jaaye
	kehte to haiN bhale ki woh, lekin buri tarah
[[ hijraN = separation ]]

	ne taab hijr meiN hai, na aaraam vasl meiN
	kambaKht dil ko chain naheeN hai kisi tarah
[[ taab = peace,  patience; vasl = meeting, reunion ]]
	
	lagti hai gaaliyaaN bhi tere munh se kya bhali
	qurbaan tere phir mujhe keh le isi tarah

	paamaal hum na hote faqat jor-e-charKh se
	aayi hamari jaan pe aafat kayi tarah
[[ paamaal = to get crushed; charKh = wheel; aafat = calamity ]]

	ne jaaye vaaN bani hai na bin jaaye chain hai
	kyaa keejiye hameN to hai mushkil sabhi tarah
[[ vaaN = vahaaN, there ]]

	ma'ashooq aur bhi haiN bataa de jahaan meiN
	karta hai kaun zulm kisi par teri tarah ?
[[ ma'ashooq = beloved ]]

	hooN jaaN-balab butaan-e-sitamgar ke haath se
	kya sab jahaaN meiN jeete hai MOMIN isi tarah ?
[[ jaaN-balab = on the verge of death, butaaN = idol of worship ]]
	
	
=====================================================================

Regards,
Rajiv [ kabhi hum bhi tum bhi the' aashna, tumheN yaad ho ke na yaad ho ]

	
--
=====================================================================
Rajiv Chakravarti
Dept. of Aerospace Engineering
University of Texas at Arlington

rajiv@utacfd.uta.edu                             rajiv@me.uta.edu
=====================================================================
From: hdeshma@eos.ncsu.edu (HARSHAVARDHAN  DESHMANE)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: MORE ABOUT INDIA / INDIAN WOMEN ARE TREATED FAR BETTER THAN HERE.
Date: 8 Oct 92 02:27:28 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos

In article <1992Oct08.013505.110934@ua1ix.ua.edu> ngopalas@ha02.eng.ua.edu (Nath S. Gopalaswamy) writes:
>In article <1992Oct7.202813.15287@noose.ecn.purdue.edu>, tolia@furnace.ecn.purdue.edu (Anish Arun Tolia) writes:
>|> In article <1ath1lINNif7@charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu> vivek@ecst.csuchico.edu (Vivek R. Prabhu) writes:
>|> >
>|> >
>|> >
>|> >In India for example, and in cities like Bombay for example try teasing
>|> >a woman and see what happens, you will get a sound thrashing from every
>|> >one around.
>
>Reeeeeaaaaally? Do tell us more. Let me give you some examples of our ever
>famous public coming to the rescue of damsels in distress. On a train near
>Madras,[Dadar express, carrying many Bombayites] a gang jumps on board, targets
>a female, and in BROAD DAYLIGHT, in the presence of 60 other passengers is
>brutally raped just because she openly remarked that she did not like their
>attention. Her three male friends are injured when they try to intervene. The
>police do nothing as usual and try to arrest the man who filed the complaint

This could not have happened in bombay. I doubt it happened at all. I would
appreciate more details, such as when did this happen? and what do you mean
by "three male friends are "injured"", is that stabbed? shot? or what?


>on the woman's behalf. In Calcutta, in BROAD DAYLIGHT, in the presence of
>hundreds of commuters, a girl is raped by some goons, just because she compl
>ained against the unwelcome attention of the hoods. Again, nothing is done by
>the police. Again in BOMBAY, a girl is BURNT alive by some sickos when she is
>sitting down to take her exams for her X standard, the police are yet to 
>charge the men involved with murder. If these can happen in broad daylight then

again ..details/sources please..this could have other motives, and may not
be crimes committed against unknowns, just because they are women..
doesnt justify it, but there are lunatic humans as well..

>just think how much goes on under the cover of darkness.
>
>Sorry for the overdone dramatic tones, but they kinda get the point across
>very effectively :-) And this is also to refute the suggestion by Mr Premkumar
>that police reports be made for such incidents, when police themselves are
>rapists in many cases, how sure can the female be that going to the police 
>is such a good idea?
>
>Nath.

[stuff deleted]


-harsh
-- 
_______________________________________________________________________________
Harshavardhan Deshmane, ECE Dept.                   hdeshma@croc.ece.ncsu.edu
North Carolina State University.                    hdeshma@csl36h.csl.ncsu.edu
From: venugop@athena.cs.uga.edu (my father is a GUN !!!)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: THE SCATOLOGICAL MIND OF SREEHARI NIMMALA
Date: 9 Oct 92 22:24:11 GMT
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens


   The following is the mail I received from Sreehari Nimmala
   following my response to netters remarks on his "so called"
   article BACK FROM INDIA which you netters have been fed up to 
   the back teeth.Well Mr Nimmala still hasn't given up
   on his grouse ,when he did not get the sympathy he
   expected to elicit from the netters.
   Again he must have also been disappointed when he threatened
   the unbooked travellers in the first class compartment that he
   would diall 911,or tried waving his social security card number 
   or one his credit cards.
   Well anyway here is his letter and I am going to complain to
   the Emory univ System administrators about this posting.

   Message 7/7  From Sreehari Nimmala                     Oct 7 '92 at 9:52 am -240


   Return-Path: chemsn@unix.cc.emory.edu
   Date: Wed, 7 Oct 92 09:52:09 -0400
   To: venugop@athena.cs.uga.edu (my father is a GUN !!!)
   Subject: Re: Back from India

   You mother-fucker. Who the fuck you are to call me names,
   you Son of a Wh***? Basterd, if I happen to meet you in
   person, take from me that that would be the end of you tamil
   brahmin fucker. You IDIOT.


   regards

   gopa