HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: walsh@starbd.enet.dec.com (Thomas Walsh)
Subject: Re: On Banning Private Discrimination
Reply-To: walsh@starbd.enet.dec.com (Thomas Walsh)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 20:33:35 GMT


In article <nlkd1e4@fido.asd.sgi.com>, dauber@sgi.com (Jeff Dauber) writes:
>Why is it that most of the individuals in power in the United States are
>white heterosexual males?  
>

Why is it that most white heterosexual males have no power whatsoever?

> However, if you look at the people who have been running things,
>and you look at the people who have been fucking things up, and you look
>at the people who are leading us into disaster, what are they?  White
>heterosexual males.
>
I though they were Republicans.


>white males are not necessarily the bad people in the power structure.
>However, white males are the people in charge, and therefore, they are to
>blame.
>
Certain white males are to blame.  To say that "they are to blame" where 
"they"  are "white males is as discriminatory as blaming all feminists for
the actions of Andrea Dworkin.

>Wrong.  I have said many more accurate things.  You just insist on arguing
>the converse of what I am saying.
>

Could he also say accurate things like "All homosexuals are child molestors"?
He'd be about as accurate as you are being.

--
___________________________________________________________________________
Thomas Walsh 		walsh@via.enet.dec.com		Nashua, NH

:opinions do not necessarily reflect those of my employers
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: cbe@unlinfo.unl.edu (cbe)
Subject: Re: G/L Youth Suicide
Organization: University of Nebraska - Lincoln
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 06:27:31 GMT

The problem of adult GLBs counseling and interacting with queer teens 
has been mentioned because of being open to charges of recruiting.
A not deeply considered but nevertheless potentially viable
solution: Lesbian and Bi females counsel queer males and Adult Queer 
and Bi males counsel lesbians and Bi females.  Not ideal, but hey, 
maybe it will help all GLB folks develop closer ties in time.

Also, the rather isolated town of Burwell, NE (pop. about 1500)
has had three teen male suicides in recent months.  As usual, every 
possibility is considered except the obvious......
Sigh....

Colburn Eigen                             H|u> = E|u>
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: "Reverse" discrimination by NAGAA
From: rivk@quads.uchicago.edu (nora gayle rivkis)
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 04:40:49 GMT
Reply-To: rivk@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Keywords: Discrimination, NAGAA

In article <1672@aviary.Stars.Reston.Unisys.COM> stine@stars.reston.unisys.com (John P. Stine) writes:
>The North American Gay Amateurs Association (NAGAA) conducts,
>among other things, a Gay World Series of softball tournaments.
>Participants in these tournaments include gay softball leagues
>nationwide.
>
>One of NAGAA's bylaws states that heterosexual individuals may
>not participate in NAGAA events.  I don't have a copy of NAGAA's
>bylaws, so I can't quote them directly.  The DC Sports assocation
>is participating in the Gay World Series this year, and they're
>being forced to disallow participation by heterosexuals who
>have participated in the softball league throughout the season.
>As a side note, the DC Sports Association allows heterosexuals
>to participate in accordance with DC's anti-discrimination
>ordinance.
>
>I understand that there are many sides to this issue.  GLBO* folks
>want to have a queer-positive environment in which to enjoy each
>others' company and have fun.  On the other hand, by explicitly
>discriminating against heterosexuals based solely upon their sexual
>orientation, I feel that NAGAA is contradicting the very spirit
>of the civil rights movement being led by GLBO* folks.  I want
>an end to discrimination based upon sexual orientation, and
>perhaps unfortunately for NAGAA, that works in both directions.

How could they tell? Maybe straights could try their hand at 'passing'.
What about bisexuals; are we allowed? Just curious...

>Please help me if you can.  I would welcome discourse on this
>sensitive subject, as well (as always).  My newsfeed is most
>tenuous - please cc any responses to e-mail.  Thanks!

"You shall not wrong the stranger or oppress him, for you were 
strangers in the land of Egypt." Ex. 22:20. Yeah, I know how many
people here will take one look at a biblical quotation and go "why
should I care?" but I'm not posting it because it's Authority, I'm
posting it because it makes sense no matter where it's from.


>             John P. Stine  (stine@stars.reston.unisys.com)

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: hsu@sp24.csrd.uiuc.edu (William Tsun-Yuk Hsu)
Subject: Re: new hankie codes?
Organization: UIUC Center for Supercomputing Research and Development
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 00:27:33 GMT

drp@dosbears.UUCP (David R. Preston) writes:

>pst@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Peter Stephen Thomas Iii) writes:
>>
>>One hand a grey hankie hanging from him left rear pocket.  The other had a
>>purple hankie hanging from his left rear also.

>If they were wearing earrings, 501 jeans, black Reeboks,
>and the hankies, then they are undoubtedly straight boys trying to look
>cool.

And if the 501s were ripped, and they had black Doc Martens instead of
Reeboks, then they're gay but confused? ;-)

Bill, who has met gay boys who don't know what hanky codes are
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.bi
From: rogerk@queernet.org (Roger B.A. Klorese)
Subject: Re: Breeders and other epithets
Organization: QueerNet
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 23:22:46 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.160750.19179@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
>Bi the way, has anyone ever known a "bisexual" who is primarily
>homosocial (if you will)?  Every bisexual I know has a MOTOS on
>hir arm but also professes interest in MOTSS. :-)

Most of my bi friends are homosocial.  One in particular who leaps to mind
is Bay Area bi activist David Lourea.
-- 
ROGER B.A. KLORESE                                              +1 415 ALL-ARFF
rogerk@unpc.QueerNet.ORG                 {ames,decwrl,pyramid}!mips!unpc!rogerk
"Normal is not something to aspire to, it's something to get away from."
                                                                   -- J. Foster
From: Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: RFD: Still in print?
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 22:31:33 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1992Jul23.220126.19064@spdcc.com> <63028@cup.portal.com>
  <1992Jul29.172614.25119@thinkage.on.ca>

Ken Dykes writes:
>Furr writes:
>>(Perhaps Steve just did too much LDS in the '60s. ;-) 
>                                  ^`Long Distance Sex ??
>
>and george, the '60s i would suspect were a leetle early even for someone
>of steve's advanced age (like 1 yr older than me?)
>
>or perhaps you were talking about 60ug doses?

[Insert Sound Sample: Foghorn Leghorn, "That was a JOKE, son!"]

Or rather, a reference to Star Trek IV, disguised as a joke.
 
() What I give form to in daylight is only one percent of
() what I've seen in darkness.
()      -- M.C. Escher
-----
[> George D. Madison | NBCS: B8f+t+w-e+s+k+a!cv | Just say NO to razors! <]
[> It's a BEAR thing -- you wouldn't understand. <|> furr@cup.portal.com <]
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas)
Subject: Re: Southern Pride - Is this Atlanta?
Organization: Gordian; Costa Mesa, CA
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 18:44:34 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.172240.23566@spdcc.com>, urso@spdcc.com (Stephen Chappell) writes:
> *yes, to a true Southerner, California is Yankee territory.

  Well of course to a true Westerner, Atlanta is just Back East too.
Of course I'm not convinced that many westerners would consider us
to be "western" -- we're just "weird".
-- 

		Michael Thomas	(mike@gordian.com)
	"I don't think Bambi Eyes will get you that flame thrower..."  
		-- Hobbes to Calvin
		USnail: 20361 Irvine Ave Santa Ana Heights, Ca,	92707-5637
		PaBell: (714) 850-0205 (714) 850-0533 (fax)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: lazarus@wixer.cactus.org (Michael Lax)
Subject: Looking for friend in Madison, WI
Organization: Real/Time Communications
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 02:24:10 GMT


A friend of mine move up to Madison, Wisconsin some weeks ago.  I've heard
from him once, but he hadn't gotten a permenant residence.  If anyone knows
of a "lestate" (his user name) or a new tall, thin white gay male who just
moved from Austin, Texas, please tell him to drop me a line.  If nobody knows
this guy, sorry about the bandwidth...

lazarus@wixer.cactus.org
Michael Lax, 12514 Esplanade St., #B, Austin, TX 78727-4409
512.837.1596 (h), 512.836.9715 (fax)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: tdbear@tandon.com (Tom Barrett)
Subject: Re: G/L Youth Suicide
Organization: Tandon Corporation, Moorpark, CA
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 18:42:38 GMT

>Having straight women counsel lesbian girls and straight men counsel
>gay boys in an objective, compassionate and non-judgemental matter
>might make such accusations moot. 

WRONG!  In my humble opinion, straights and gays do not mix in
any counseling... I have yet to meet anyone who identifys
themselves as straight who does not have some problems with
homosexuality.  Some of the straight counselors that I've meet
definitely give off negative/uneasy non-verbals whenever the
subject comes up.  This is NOT a good thing for those who are
not aware of the non-verbals.

It has been expressed before, and it is also my opinion, that
open lesbian counselors should be used to cousel gay male
youth and open gay male counselors used for lesbian youth...
this would not discount some same sex one-on-one sessions
which might be required (when the the opposite gender isn't
working on a particular subject), nor mixed-gender counseling
teams (especially in group).  

When it comes to counseling gay/lesbian youth, it is VERY
important to have a safe environment.  It is imparative for
the counselers involved to weed out any of their peers who
have unresolved sexual problems/needs from their own youth to
avoid any unprofessional situations.  You can't look the other
way and accept just anyone.  Group counseling, while not
personal, has its advantages of safety as well as allowing
youth to interact and nurture each other through talk and
discussion.



-- 
Tom Barrett (TDBear)    tdbear@tandon.com                 voice 805-378-6207
Tandon Corporation      tdbear@p6.f1006.n102.z1.fidonet.org fax 805-529-8895
Sr. HW Design Engineer  "War is Peace, No is Yes, And We're All Free!" 
[The views expressed herein may not be shared by the organization of origin]
From: booter@Autodesk.COM (Elaine Richards)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: There was this sign in the window...
Keywords: @$#!% NewsWatcher bug...
Date: 23 Jul 92 22:30:48 GMT
Organization: Autodesk, Inc., Sausalito, CA

In article <1992Jul23.064815.5765@wam.umd.edu> jns@wam.umd.edu (J. N. Shaumeyer) writes:
>Elaine Richards (booter@Autodesk.COM) wrote:
> 
>> I think the sign was misguided and impolite. I suspect the propositioning
>> was intended to be funny.
>
>Nope, I wasn't there, and it doesn't matter one bit; if
>
>Merely being gay is an affront to their moral sensibility,
>their fragile masculinity, their very Lifestyle; the
[etc]
>
>"I'm gay" *is* sexual harrassment to these pitiful creatures
>masquerading as men.  Just try to imagine having to face,
>say, 10,000 all at the same time.  They thought their
>patronizing little sign was *sensitive*.


True, I have met straight men who are more than happy to enter, but
have a great horror of being on the receiving end of their own
behavior.

Not everyone believes in "Do unto others..."

Some straight men have a complete terror of straight women making
advances on them. One straight man told me I was being a "freak"
because I wanted It. He also castigated me when I did not want It.
Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

ER

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't know when it was that I scratched Fate's car door, but I should have
left a note. --Tim Mefford
From: jf@threel.co.uk (John Fisher)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: the b-word
Date: 24 Jul 92 12:31:16 GMT
Organization: 3L Ltd, Peel House, Ladywell, Livingston EH54 6AG, UK


I first tried to post this last Friday and it went down
the tubes, but in view of recent postings from Ailsa and Jess
I thought I'd try again.

---- cut here ---- cut here ---- cut here ---- cut here ---- cut here ----

>From jf Fri Jul 17 15:08:53 1992

The funny thing about the b-word for me, is that I really
can't see anything objectionable in breeding, in the simple
physical engendering of another human.  It's an irreducible
human function;  it's in the hardware.  Enough people have
tried to dehumanise it, but they've never quite succeeded. 
I find people who are breeding vulnerable, funny and
touching. 

The enforcement of our separation from kids is a species of
oppression.  That LGB people should be prevented from being
parents or teachers or (as we've seen here at huge length)
youth leaders is an atrocity.  So it's not surprising that
the huge concentration in our society upon adults' mission
to tend for kids should be resented, and that LGB people
should sometimes feel annoyed at individual straights who
appear to be ramming their role as parents down our
throats. It can sometimes feel like gloating.

But I think that an important reason *why* it hurts is
because our relationship to kids is an arena for
oppression.  There's nothing inherently bad about bringing
up kids.  It has to be done, to some extent it's a societal
responsibility, we are part of society and we have a right
to be involved if we wish.

Nor can I really feel critical of people who let their
lives revolve around their role as parents.  Very large
numbers of people lead lives which are desperately boring
and pointless and oppressed, in many cases for reasons
entirely outwith their control.  If they focus upon the one
thing they can do on their own initiative, the one thing
which has an inherent value, the one thing which will give
them a kind of immortality, I find that moving and
praiseworthy.  It's one of the things I find most human
about straight people, rather than the opposite.

Not everyone wants anything to do with children.  All the
same, breeding, the engendering and upbringing of children,
is something worthy of respect in itself, and something we
ourselves have a right to.  To use it as an insult for
straight people seems to me like self-oppression.

--John
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: glp@fig.citib.com (Greg Parkinson)
Subject: NYC: The Night Larry Kramer Kissed Me
Originator: glp@merlin
Organization: Citibank IBISM
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 19:51:55 GMT


I saw _The Night Larry Kramer Kissed Me_ last weekend -
it's playing at the Perry St. Theatre in NYC - and would
recommend it.  The writing is good; the performance is
wonderful.  There's a bit called _12" Single_ that was
one the better things I've seen in a theatre in a long
time.  Don't miss it if you're in New York.

-- 
Greg Parkinson                  Phone: 212-657-7814  Fax: 212-825-8607
Citibank,111 Wall Street        E-Mail: glp@fig.citib.com
New York, New York  10043
The opinions expressed are my own and not those of the big 'ol bank.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rogerk@queernet.org (Roger B.A. Klorese)
Subject: Re: HIV- cases of full blown AIDS?
Organization: QueerNet
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 92 23:17:04 GMT

In article <1992Jul25.044008.11980@boy.com> robert@boy.com (Robert A. Swirsky) writes:
>In fact, more responsible newspapers are calling this an "AIDS-like disease"
>instead of "HIV- AIDS" to leave open the possiblility that this
>disease, while similar in nature, is unrelated to AIDS.

AIDS is a syndrome.  "HIV- AIDS" is appropriate if this syndrome is
caused by a different infectious agent.  The notion that cause (HIV)
defines effect (Acquired Immune Deficiency) is moronic.
-- 
ROGER B.A. KLORESE                                              +1 415 ALL-ARFF
rogerk@unpc.QueerNet.ORG                 {ames,decwrl,pyramid}!mips!unpc!rogerk
"Normal is not something to aspire to, it's something to get away from."
                                                                   -- J. Foster
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com (Jake Coughlin)
Subject: Re: There was this sign in the window...
Originator: jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 19:06:42 GMT
Organization: IBM T. J. Watson Research

booter@Autodesk.COM (Elaine Richards):
> One straight man told me I was being a "freak"
> because I wanted It. He also castigated me when I did not want It.
> Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

to me, it sounds more like "fucked if you do, and fucked if you
don't."
-- 
Jason Coughlin ( jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com )
Queer Without A Cause!
"I find myself suddenly in the world, and I recognize that I have one
right alone: that of demanding human behavior of the other." -- Fanon
Newsgroups: soc.motss,talk.politics.misc,alt.individualism,alt.activism
From: rogerk@queernet.org (Roger B.A. Klorese)
Subject: Re: On Banning Private Discrimination
Organization: QueerNet
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 92 23:04:21 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.080011.8696@wam.umd.edu> aap@wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo Pinkas) writes:
>Perhaps, just perhaps, some should blame the whatever creates the 
>conditions for white heterosexuals males to be on power more than 
>blaming them.

We do.  The conditions are prior generations of white heterosexual males.
Unfortunately, by the time the new generation gets to the age it will
wield most of the power, it is indoctrinated thoroughly.
-- 
ROGER B.A. KLORESE                                              +1 415 ALL-ARFF
rogerk@unpc.QueerNet.ORG                 {ames,decwrl,pyramid}!mips!unpc!rogerk
"Normal is not something to aspire to, it's something to get away from."
                                                                   -- J. Foster
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: Bryan J. Blumberg <b_blumberg@macsch.com (Bryan J. Blumberg)>
Subject: Re: Editor-in-Chief of THE ADVOCATE Resigns!
Organization: Systems Integration Branch
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1a2
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 23:59:33 GMT

In article  Doug Sewell, doug@cc.ysu.edu writes:

>buckmr@aix.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire) writes:
>: 
>: The Los Angeles Times reported on Friday that Richard Rouillard,
>: Editor-in-Chief of THE ADVOCATE, the national gay and lesbian
bi-weekly,
>: had stunned staffers by resigning on Thursday July 23.
>: 
>: No reason was given. Anyone hear about this and have any inside dish?
>: 
>I dunno, but my subscription has been VERY erratic, in fact, I've missed
>getting at least one issue since they went perfect-bound.  Their delivery
>wasn't that fantastic in the boonies of NE Ohio anyhow, and their billing
>service for subscriptions also left much to be desired.


I've subscribed to the Advocate since 1979 and have never missed an issue.
I don't know why you should be experiencing such problems.  Perhaps since
you live in the boonies, the postal carriers are stealing it?

For jon@Turing.ORG (Jon Gefaell (KD4CQY)) who is asking about a
distributor,
why not call LPI directly at (213) 871-1225 and ask them for a
recommendation?

========================================
Bryan  J. Blumberg, The MacNeal-Schwendler Corporation
815 Colorado Boulevard, Los Angeles, California  90041-1777
(213) 259-4914, B_BLUMBERG@MACSCH.COM
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: thaaang@odin.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance)
Subject: Re: Jeopardy (was: Re: about SF gay pride)
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 09:03:57 GMT

glp@fig.citib.com (Greg Parkinson) writes:

>This is old news, but the winner of the most $$ ever
>on Jeopardy is a big tall thing with a big moustache
>who goes periodically to the Altar, a gay leather bar
>in NYC.  

How *cool*! I hope he pissed on Alec.

--
John Dorrance    ** Disco Diva y Flamenco Chico **    thaaang@odin.unomaha.edu

		I always thought of you as my brick wall
		   Built like an angel, six feet tall.
From: sfsmith@pennsas.upenn.edu (Sandy F. Smith, Jr.)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: There was this sign in the window...
Date: 23 Jul 92 19:23:13 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <1992Jul23.064815.5765@wam.umd.edu>, jns@wam.umd.edu 
(J. N. Shaumeyer) writes: [about certain insecure hets:]

> Merely being gay is an affront to their moral sensibility,
> their fragile masculinity, their very Lifestyle; the
> currently popular phrase seems to be "shoving it down their
> throats".  Not doing everything they can to wipe out the
> disgusting cocksuckers means they "condone" homosexuality.

This is about as close as I've yet seen to an expose of the real thoughts
fermenting in the minds of those straights who complain, as in [certain parts
of] Oregon, that we seek "special priveleges" or are "already protected" by
existing law and custom.  By this warped logic, for us to do everyday what
they take for granted is somehow "shoving it (down their throats|in their
faces|up their *****|...)" and must be stopped lest Western Civilization and
the American Way of Life suffer irreparable damage.

Shows what they know about Western Civilization -- or the American Way of
Life, for that matter.

But on a lighter note, I can't help but note Steve Dyer's remark:

> I think the notion that these morons got propositioned by
> anyone at the march is as likely as Frank Rizzo being
> reincarnated as a drag queen.

Hmmm...*BIG* *RED* *PUMPS* and a nightstick in his brassiere?  I think it
could be quite an act...the Bike Stop crowd might eat it up....

___________________
Sandy F. Smith, Jr.
Graduate Division, School of Arts and Sciences, University of Pennsylvania
16 College Hall, Philadelphia, PA 19104-6378.  (Opinions mine, not Penn's)
Internet: sfsmith@pennsas.upenn.edu
 
"The God I serve don't make no trash!" -- Rev. Emanuel Cleaver, Mayor, City
of Kansas City, Mo.
Xref: sparky soc.motss:32600 talk.politics.misc:36079 alt.individualism:4617 alt.activism:13532
From: cedman@714-725-3165.nts.uci.edu (Carl Edman)
Subject: Re: Gayspace
Newsgroups: soc.motss,talk.politics.misc,alt.individualism,alt.activism
Reply-To: cedman@golem.ps.uci.edu (Carl Edman)
Date: 27 Jul 92 02:10:08 GMT

I wrote (quoted in full) in what I believe is the first contact I've had on the  
net or off it with Mr Adolphson:
> adolphson writes
> > So, anyway, in today's LA Times is a little article that my
> > city council (the West Hollywood City Council) last week
> > approved a monument commemorating last fall's street
> > protests against California governor Pete Wilson's
> > veto of AB 101 (a gay-rights bill).  I took part in most of
> > the street protests, and I am *very* glad to see that the
> > city council stood up to some homophobic resistance --
> > yes, even West Hollywood has its phobes.  They, the
> > phobes, complained that the city "places too much
> > emphasis on gay and lesbian issues".  I say a big "fuck you"
> > to them.  The city places emphasis on gay and lesbian
> > issues because we are the single largest voting block in
> > the city.  And if the phobes don't like it, they're welcome
> > to move to a city 35% of whose residents are not gay.  I'm
> > sure they'd be able to find such cities. 
> 
> Just out of curiosity, you might be able to answer my question.
> 
> Consider a hypothetical city 35% of the population of which oppose abortion  
> want to see it banned. Would you consider it proper and appropriate use of
> the taxpayers funds of that city if it decided to build a monument to
> Operation Rescue protests at a local abortion clinic ? Also, would you
> consider it appropriate and tolerant if any citizen of that city told anybody
> else wwhocriticized that monument "Fuck you !" and "Move somewhere else if
> you don't like it here !" ?

Adolphson responds (quoted in full):
> In article <2A733D51.5586@noiro.acs.uci.edu> 
> cedman@golem.ps.uci.edu (Carl Edman) blathers about
> something that I decided to delete.
> 
> Drop dead, asshole.
> 
> Arne

Do you _always_ respond that way when a stranger asks you a polite question ?

	Carl Edman
From: elaine@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Elaine May)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 18:49:32 GMT
Subject: Re: Gay Employee Groups
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Loveland, CO