HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tgl+@cs.cmu.edu (Tom Lane)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.graphics
Subject: Re: JPEG compressions
Date: 25 Jan 93 16:21:12 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.C1F43D.3q7.2
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

pflodin@etek.chalmers.se (Per Flodin) writes:
> I move a lot of 24 plane pictures (raytraced) using floppydisks and am
> therefore very interrested in keeping the files as short as possible. I
> believe that the best compression today is offered by JPEG's but, as you all
> know, the JPEG standard involves removing data on a user-based rate.
> 
> I'd like to keep my pics as intact as possible so I wonder if a rate of 100
> (the maximum allowable rate) removes any data or if it just compresses? I
> think that a JPEG file using compression rate of 100 still would be smaller
> than most other formats, or?

If you run the free JPEG software at Q setting 100, you are misusing it.
We don't recommend settings much above 95 for practical use; there is a
substantial difference in compressed file size, but almost no difference
in visual quality, between Q 95 and Q 100.

If you are not happy with the image quality at Q 95, you should probably
not be using JPEG for your images.  As other people have pointed out in
this thread, JPEG is not suitable for all types of images; it is intended
for photographs and photo-like images (complex raytraces, for instance).
For simpler images like cartoons, there are other methods that will give
better compression with less computation (good old GIF often works well).

In practice, for the types of images JPEG is designed for, Q 75 or so is
usually quite adequate.  I'd recommend experimenting to see what Q level
you can detect problems at (on a particular type of image), and then running
5 or 10 steps above that level.

The JPEG FAQ, which I post regularly in comp.graphics and news.answers,
goes into all this in more detail.

And no, Q setting 100 is NOT lossless, not even close.  It gets rid of
one of the deliberate information-loss steps, but there is another one;
and even if you turn off that one too, there are still several sources
of roundoff error.

			regards, tom lane
			organizer, Independent JPEG Group
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.graphics
From: knyal@ils.nwu.edu (Jarrett Knyal)
Subject: Re: Dpaint IV questions...
Organization: Institute for the Learning Sciences
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 18:25:56 GMT

In article <1993Jan20.152832.22376@osf.org> rnollman@osf.org () writes:
>I have two questions about using DPAINT. 
>
>Here is where I had a problem.  Each HAM file loaded into the frame
>fine.  The color was perfect.  However, I did not go back and check
>the previous frames.  When I was done, I ran the animation.  Only the
>colors on the last frame loaded were correct.  The colors on the other
>frames were all screwed up.  The palette somehow had been altered.
>The correctly colored frame was all browns and grays.  The other
>frames had blues, greens, yellows, and reds in them, but the strange
>thing was that these "extra" colors were not present in the palettes.
>I have no idea where they came from.  Is the problem in the
>digitizing, conversion, or with DPAINT's handling of external
>palettes?  I tried saving the palette for the correct frame in DPAINT
>and loading the saved palette into the DCTV conversion module.  It had
>no effect.

when you convert you have to have the colors in the palette locked.  Calling up
a palette won't do anything unless you lock all the colors.  When the colors
are locked all the frames you convert will adhere to the palette.  Trust me, I
went through the same stuff you did.

One thing that will save you some time is to use REND24.  Its a shareware
program that can automate your converting as long as you're just converting and
not tweaking the settings of your frames (sharpness, etc...).  Digitize and
save in 24bit IFF format from DCTV with the frame #'s (frame001, frame002,
etc...).  REND 24 will automatically take the frames and convert to any format
you want (from 2 colors to HAM to AGA to DCTV) and can automatically put the
ANIM together for you.  Its very nice and you can go on to do other things with
your time.  You can find REND24 on many BBS and ftp sites.  The latest version
is 104i (I think).


>
>I know there had got to be a way to do this.
>
>2.  I may be really dense, but I could not figure out how I could set up
>a palette of 4096 colors.  The most that DPAINT IV seems to allow is
>256 colors.  The palette seems to only have 256 spots for colors (16
>squares in each "subpalette" x 16 subpalettes (from a to p).  Where can I
>store the rest of the 4096 colors?  

DPaint4 only does a pseudo-HAM.  You only get 256 colors, apparently EA thinks
we don't make many pictures with more then that.

hope all this helps ya!!

JOSHUA TSUI
INSTITUTE FOR THE LEARNING SCIENCES.


Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.graphics
Subject: Re: IMAGINE
Distribution: world
X-NewsSoftware: GRn 1.16f (10.17.92) by Mike Schwartz & Michael B. Smith
Organization: Private Node
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 13:11:13 +0000

In article <1993Jan27.113609.98@condor> oxleyd@logica.co.uk writes:

> Hmmm, interesting. I recall creating a glass sphere in Real3D (1.4) and 
> sticking a lamp inside it. When I rendered, it functioned just like the
> lightbulb I thought it would produce, correctly illuminating my scene.

Thats one of its features - as it's a true raytracer (it stops at
taking into account wavelength!) it will make objects behave
realistically - eg - a lens shaped object made of glass will bend the
light correctly in a scene (so a magnifying glass will actually magnify) and
so on. The only thing to remember is that you can specify the number
of 'bounces' that a light ray will be calculated for, so that you may
want to increase that if you have many translucent/shiny/refractive
objects all reflecting one another.

Version 2 will also take into account parallax, motion blur, distance
haze, and just about everything you can think of....


-- 

  John ..   InterNet  - john@heights.demon.co.uk
            FidoNet   - 2:253/500.9
From: dino@alex.com (Dino Fancellu)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.graphics
Subject: Re: Real 3D 2.0
Date: 28 Jan 93 13:32:02 GMT
Organization: Alex Technologies Ltd, London, England
Return-Path: <news>
Apparently-To: mail2news@demon.co.uk

In article <1993Jan27.175134.25698@draco.bison.mb.ca>, sorvan@draco.bison.mb.ca (Colin Stobbe) writes:
|> Hello,
|>      I just heard that the release date for Real 3D 2.0 is being pushed
|> back to april, and also that there'll be two versions released, one with
|> everything, and a cheaper version that doesn't include the presets, textures
|> etc... maybe I'll be able to afford it after all :)
|> 

I just spoke to Alternate Image in the UK and the say they are getting it 
at the end of feb/beginning march and that there will be only one version.
They said that if the above was true then they had not been told. I do hope
it hasn't slipped AGAIN.

Dino.
From: rvmst1+@pitt.edu (Rainer V Mager)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.graphics
Subject: pic2hl filter in HamLabPlus HELP
Date: 21 Jan 93 05:27:27 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh via AMIGA


        I'm trying to get the pic2hl filter to work in HamLabPlus, any
body have succes doing this.  I putit into the filters directory and did
"scan filters" and it seemed to work okay, but hamlabplus doesn't want
to recognize .pic or .clp files (which this filter is supposed to do I
believe).  Any info would be greatly appreciated,

-- 
Rainer Mager
It's time to ROCK Commodore.  For info mail me.  Let's get things kicking!
From: bobl@bobsbox.rent.com (Bob Lindabury - SysAdmin)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.graphics
Subject: Re: LIGHTWAVE MAILING LIST
Date: 26 Jan 93 12:26:18 GMT
Organization: Raven Enterprises -- Piscataway, NJ USA
X-NewsSoftware: GRn 1.16f (10.17.92) by Mike Schwartz & Michael B. Smith

In article <20028@mindlink.bc.ca> Alf_Cook@mindlink.bc.ca (Alf Cook) writes:
> The address for the lightwave mailing list is lightwave@bobsbox.rent.com.  If
> you want to subscribe send a mail message to
> lightwave-request@bobsbox.rent.com
> and in the body of the message enter:
> subscribe lightwave-1 your.name@your.site.domain.  Expect a welcome message
> in about 5 days and the mail will come pouring in.

The above command to enter into your mail message is:

subscribe lightwave-l YourLoginID@YourSite.domain.

--
 Bob Lindabury

InterNet: bobl@bobsbox.rent.com                | Raven Enterprises
    UUCP: ...rutgers!bobsbox!bobl              | 25 Raven Avenue
  BitNet: bobl%bobsbox.rent.com@pucc           | Piscataway, NJ 08854
  Home #: +1 908/560-7353                      | +1 908/271-8878
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.graphics
From: koren@fc.hp.com (Steve Koren)
Subject: Re: Imagine 3.0 WHO CARES!
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 02:54:42 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Fort Collins Site
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1.3 PL5

Rev Lebaredian (mnemonic@netcom.com) wrote:

> Just to mention a few, It's own
> propriety programming language,

Now *that* would be nice to have.  I've been hoping that Imagine would
get a good ARexx command set for a long time, but it shows no signs of
doing so.  If Real-3D has a good programming language, it'll be a great
feature.

  - steve
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.graphics
From: TMakinen
Subject: Re: JPEG compressions
Organization: <none>
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 93 13:30:18 GMT

In article <1993Jan23.093844.27675@etek.chalmers.se>
   pflodin@etek.chalmers.se (Per Flodin) writes:

>I'd like to keep my pics as intact as possible so I wonder if a rate
>of 100 (the maximum allowable rate) removes any data or if it just
>compresses? I think that a JPEG file using compression rate of 100
>still would be smaller than most other formats, or?

After you have compressed a 24 bit picture using a rate of about 85% and you
compare it to the original side by side, you have to have a magnifying lens,
a colour cromatograph, a CIA handbook and 10 free hours before you are able
to tell the difference. This, of course, depends on the picture. JPG is
designed to compress photorealistic pictures. "Cartoonlike" pictures with
few bitplanes can be compressed more effectively with other formats.
JPG is the best thing happened in the era of computer graphics until now.

Teemu
From: bburdeau@redorc.chi.il.us (Bob Burdeau)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.graphics
Subject: Re: What is GIF?!!??
Date: 25 Jan 93 19:42:40 CST
Organization: Red Oracle Bbs/Network

PMBC???  Lossless image compression?  I like the sound of that.  Up until I
found out that JPEG is not lossless, even at 100% quality, I have been using it
to store those unwieldy 24-bit pictures.  I don't want to save them like that
anymore because if I succesively load and save in JPEG as I'm working on an
image, it will slowly start to degrade.  When I zoom in, I can see the damage
that JPEG has done, however slight.

I do love that JPEG saves files 20% or more of the original size, but now I
want lossless, faster compression.  What kind of compression ratio could I
expect to get out of PMBC? 800K down to 80K?  If I'm going to spend the time to
compress/decompress, I want to be able to get a decent compression out of it,
or it's not worth the time invested.

Are there any other lossless 24-bit formats out there?  How does LZW
compression compare (or is that the same as JPEG)?

Thanks.

=-=-=-=---===-===-==-=-====-=-=-=-==--===-=-====------=-=====---=-=-==---==-=-
  Bob Burdeau - Soon-to-be-famous artist       >  You can do anything     <
 mail: bburdeau@redorc.chi.il.us               <  if you try enough.      >
                                               >                          <
=-=--==--=-=-=-======-=-=-=-==--=---=-=-=-=-===--=-=-=-====--==-===-=-=-==-==-
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.graphics
From: "james kewageshig" <james.kewageshig@canrem.com>
Subject: lightwave to other 3d
Reply-To: "james kewageshig" <james.kewageshig@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: comp
Date: 25 Jan 93 14:39:28 EST

DonH@cup.portal.com (Don - Hirschfeld) writes:

D->Vertex 3D modeler will load Lightwave objects and save them as imagine,
D->turbo, wavefront, etc. objects. It's $40 from the author. There is a demo
D->version floating around with the save function disabled.

I saw Vertex for the first time at a usergroup meeting, and it was pretty 
good.  The person who showed me was saying how great it was for converting
objects for Lightwave and sort forth, but what I want to know is if will
convert Imagine objects (or all other supported formats) to Lightwave
PROPERLY, without having to resort to double-facing all the polygons,
and will it make co-planar ploygons into one BIG polygon, since Lightwave
can handle ploygons with more than just 3 points...

Anybody know out there??  If it passes these tests, I'll buy it.
 ________________________________________________________________________ 
|0 ___ ___  ____  ____  ____                                            0|\
|   \ \//    ||    ||    ||                James Kewageshig              |\|
|   _\//_   _||_  _||_  _||_      UUCP: james.kewageshig@canrem.com      |\|
|   N E T W O R K    V I I I    FIDONET:   James Kewageshig - 1:229/15   |\|
|0______________________________________________________________________0|\|
 \________________________________________________________________________\|
---
  DeLuxe 1.25 #8086  Head of Co*& XV$# Hi This is a signature virus. Co
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.graphics
From: Alf_Cook@mindlink.bc.ca (Alf Cook)
Subject: Multask & LW
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 20:00:54 GMT


I recently started using Rend24 V1.05 by Thomas Krehbiel which by the way
is an excellent tool to convert your LW renderings to a playable Amiga
format, compiling each frame to an anim file as it is rendered.  I was
rendering an animation and tried using the Amiga M key used for moving
through screens. I was able to go to the Workbench where Rend24 was open
and was also able to open other programs.  The only interuption on the
monitor was when LW rendered a segment to the composite output.  During Hi
resolution renderings, some frames taking up to 10 minutes even on my 030
system, I find I can use other programs quite effectively while LW is
rendering  a large project.  I guess Rend24 being linked to LW is
responsible for this ability to multitask with LW.  I have 9 megs of ram
in my system allowing me to run other programs with LW.  Anyone with Rend24
tried this before?  Any other ways to multitask with LW that you know of?
If Thomas Krehbiel can do it with Rend24 why can't NewTek design a way to
free up the rest of the Amiga to do other jobs?
From: matt-dah@dsv.su.se (Mattias Dahlberg)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.graphics
Subject: Re: 16 Color Icons - Wb3.0
Date: 28 Jan 93 13:52:41 GMT
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]

MARC VAILLANCOURT (vailm00@DMI.USherb.CA) wrote:

: When the WB loads those icons, the 8 first colors of the WB will be
: assigned "correctly" to the icons

Alright, alright. Are there any nice 8 color icons out there, then?

--
=========================================================
=  Regards  =  email:              =  1280x512x262000+  = 
=  Mattias  =  matt-dah@dsv.su.se  =  I love it.        =
=========================================================
=  If we don't *buy* our programs, there soon won't be  =
=  any new software for the Amiga. Obvious, is it not?  =
=========================================================
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.graphics
From: shulick@navajo.ucs.indiana.edu (Sam Hulick)
Subject: Re: Imagine 3.0 WHO CARES!
Organization: Vallen Software
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 06:15:36 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.023408.9097@sbcs.sunysb.edu>, dtiberio@engws10.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio) says most sayishly:
>In article <C17sGE.KIn@fc.hp.com> koren@fc.hp.com (Steve Koren) writes:
>
>>Real3D is also very expensive.  I could afford Imagine just to plink
>
>	My brother bought Real 3D a few months ago for $13 new.
>
>-- 
>   Amiga Graphics BBS  xamiga.linet.org (516) 473-6351  24 HRS 14.4 v.32bis
>ixemul.library mpeg_play mpeg_movies jpegs gifs 3d_objs music_mods adobe_fonts
>ONLINE: Louis Leclerc's Japan Yes and related files about our trade relations.
>	 login: ANONYMOUS password: GUEST for unrestricted downloads

Please, let's not get confused, here.  Real3D is the piece of trash
that's worth about $13.  Real3D *II* is the new one coming out soon,
which makes Imagine look like a toy.

-- 
    // Amiga 3000   ___ \ Sam Hulick: shulick@indiana.edu (NeXTmail OK!)
   // 68030 25 MHz /__/\ \  )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
\\// OS 2.04       \__\/ / (((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((
 \/                     /   )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.graphics
From: greendog@insti.physics.sunysb.edu (Michael D. Fischer)
Subject: Re: 16 Color Icons - Wb3.0
Organization: Institute for Theoretical Physics, SUNY at Stony Brook.
	<1993Jan26.140949.727@samba.oit.unc.edu>,<1993Jan26.144002.13386@wam.umd.edu>
	<1993Jan26.202104.2207@msus1.msus.edu>
	<1993Jan27.101659.22459@ugle.unit.no>
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 20:10:52 GMT

NO NO NO!  WB3.0 only supports 8 color icons.  You SHOULD NOT use icons with
more colors.  The rest of the colors (248 in a 256 color WB) are "free"
for other programs to use and change as needed.  If you have 16 color
icons they will behave unpredictably.

Michael
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Michael D. Fischer - greendog@max.physics.sunysb.edu - (516) 632-7966 -
- System Manager - Institute for Theoretical Physics - SUNY Stony Brook -
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
- "It is a bitter thought, but you must face it.  The planets you may   -
- one day possess.  But the stars are not for Man."  --Karellen         -
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
From: bob@atlantis.CS.ORST.EDU (robert s. richardson)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.graphics
Subject: Re: DMI Editmaster
Date: 25 Jan 93 19:11:20 GMT
Article-I.D.: leela.1k1e0oINNqi6
Organization: Computer Science Outreach Services - Oregon State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: atlantis.cs.orst.edu

In article <1993Jan24.185855.77@condor> oxleyd@logica.co.uk writes:
>I've been trying to figure out how the Editmaster works. Presumably, a cable
>runs between the video source and the Editmaster itself. So it takes a
>video signal as input and does some real-time digitising, which then gets
>compressed on the fly into JPEG frames. The resulting picture files must be
>small enough that the board can write them directly to the hard drive at a rate
>of 25 (or 30) per second. 
>
>All well and good. BUT, what about the return trip? The frames get read off the
>hard drive after you've processed them, or for ray tracing, after you've laid
>them down in JPEG format (presumably using the board to do the conversion for
>you). Then they get decompressed on the fly by the hardware JPEG chips...and
>then what? Are they converted back into analogue video and squirted down the
>cable coming out of the Editmaster? Actually, that sounds quite reasonable,
>producing an output of equivalent quality to DCTV, but at the proper frame rate
>...and then you buy the Vivid24 if you want to record at 24 bit in real time.
>And the Vivid has the capability to run at 160MFLOPS so it's finished your ray
>tracings before you've even told it to start rendering ;)
>

When I saw this demoed in Pasadena, they had a laserdisc player running a
video (indiana jones as I recall) into an Amiga (a 3000 i think) and then
coming back out and being displayed on a big-screen monitor.  I saw a 
poster or something saying that there was a JPEG card inside.  I thought
to myself almost immediately "I wonder if they are just looping the
video signal through and the board isn't really doing anything--its
really vaporware..."  Well, I asked a person in the booth what was
really going on and he showed me.  They had the input signal going
through one JPEG board, being compressed, and then sent over to a second
JPEG board for decompression and back out.  ( I assume you only need
one board if you don't need to compress and decompress at the same time.)
He typed some CLI commands and changed the compression ratios and you 
could immediately see their effect on the video--so this board was
certainly a reality at the time.  But the "editing" software was "coming
soon."  They had absolutely nothing, not even beta stuff, to show
along those lines.

===========================================================================
Bob Richardson (bob@atlantis.cs.orst.edu) \  __  | "What in the name of Bob
PO Box 1404, Corvallis, OR 97339-1404     /\ \/  | is that?"     "Who?"
(503) 758-5018  Opinions Offered Daily at Noon.  | "Forget it." -- D. Adams
From: corban@wti.com (Corban Gossett)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.graphics
Subject: Re: BABYLON-5 Broadcast (Make me a tape?)
Date: 20 Jan 93 21:51:33 GMT
Organization: Wavefront Technologies Inc, Santa Barbara, CA
X-Disclaimer: Not a spokesperson for Wavefront Technologies, Inc.

In article <Paula_Lieberman.07v4@amicol.UUCP> Paula_Lieberman@amicol.UUCP (Paula Lieberman) writes:
>re article by James Miller asking someone to tape Babylon 5 for him -- uh,
>this is equivalent to asking someone to copy Lightwave 3-D because the
>person doesn't have a dealer in the area and/or money to buy a
>Toaster/Amiga from/with..... NOT a good idea to post such a thing!  [the
>appropriate thing to do is write a letter of complaint to local TV
>stations, write Warner, and find someone in the area with a satellite dish,
>who can view it from the satellte broadcast] -- asking if there's someone
>in the area with a satellitsatelite feed.
>
> 
>
>-- Via DLG Pro v0.992


To Paula Lieberman...


**********************************************************************
*
*
*
*                   Get A Life!
*
*
*
*
*********************************************************************



P.S.  I can't comprehend the fact that I wasted my time or space on 
this network for you.
From: blackbelt@cup.portal.com (Ben - Williams)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.graphics
Subject: Re: What is GIF?!!??
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 93 14:14:06 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world

Bob Burdeao,

PMBC is in the same class with 24-bit IFF at the moment; you're likely to
get an average of about 15%-%20 better than 24-bit IFF, for most types of
computer images. If the iamges contain monochrome areas (grey, cyan, etc)
you may see up to 300% better than 24-bit iff; PMBC is colorspace-aware.

PMBC is currently about 1/2 done, as far as the compression code goes,
and is still implemented in C - that means that (a) you'll be able to get
far better compression when I'm done with it (probably this summer) and
it'll run MUCH faster than it does now. While I'm working on it, it will
remain in C, to speed development.

I'm fairly certain that you'll be able to get approximately 4:1-5:1
compression, losslessly, with the final PMBC compressor. We'll find out
this summer. :^)

Ben
Xref: sparky comp.sys.amiga.graphics:8990 comp.sys.amiga.misc:20406
From: cdj@LNS62.TN.CORNELL.EDU
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.graphics,comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: Where is R.D. McVey's icon collection
Date: 24 Jan 1993 18:29:32 GMT
Organization: Wilson Lab, Cornell U., Ithaca, NY, 14853
Reply-To: CDJ@lns62.tn.cornell.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: lns62.tn.cornell.edu

I down loaded the WB backgrounds from Deepster and the WB snapshot included
pictures of the 16 color interlaced icons made by R.D. McVey.  Does anyone
know where I can get these icons?
			Thanks in advance,
				Chris Jones
				cdj@lns62.tn.cornell.edu