HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: parr@acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr)
Subject: Re: Heraldic references...
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 19:05:27 GMT
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta

In article <724041738.F00001@ocitor.fidonet> Beth.Appleton@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Beth Appleton) writes:
> CP> to "design" arms, unless you are willing to devote an *enormous*
> CP> amount of time thought and energy, and some money (Papworthis
> CP> not cheap, and there are other required references), and then
>   "Library"   "Inter-library Loan".  Reduces the price quite a bit, 
> doesn't it.  True, the time factor goes up a bit.  Here in the 
> Steppes, we don't access the geneology section of the Dallas Public 
> Library, because you cannot remove the books from that room.  They've 
> got some tremendous stuff (Star used their library before Ansteorra 
> bought some reference books).  But they've got Reistap (sp), and all 
> sorts of other nifty references.  I'm waiting to see if I can decipher 
> this Eastern European one I spotted.....

I realise you mean well, but interlibrary loan, or even libraries
for that matter, are quite useless to the vast majority of
people.

Papworth, for example, is not in the collection (to my knowledge,
and I looked about for it once) of any public library in Alberta.

Inter library loan is often "strongly discouraged" by librarians,
who have limited budgets for such things, and don't want to see
it wasted on something "frivolous".

Nor do I blame them.

Carolus
-- 
Within the span of the last few weeks I have heard elements of
separate threads which, in that they have been conjoined in time,
struck together to form a new chord within my hollow and echoing
gourd. --Unknown net.person
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: Colin_Hart@mindlink.bc.ca (Colin Hart)
Subject: Re: rattan sword-making
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 22:36:04 GMT

Greetings to all who come by this bridge at this time, from Colin Mackay of
Balmaghie in Lions Gate. Sir Gerhard certainly used to use shrink wrap. He
does not fight heavy any more, thus does not have the need to build rattan
swords any more. I will check with him later on for his opinions and how to
advice and post back to the Rialto later still.
Colin MAckay of Balmaghie, Lions Gate An Tir.

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: dave@metapro.DIALix.oz.au (David Eddy)
Subject: Re: Rattan Sword-making
Organization: MetaPro Systems, Perth, Western Australia
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 09:36:29 GMT

In <GLEASON.92Dec14091446@scf16.scf.loral.com> gleason@scf16.scf.loral.com (Robert Gleason) writes:
Parlan MacGillivray -- Encinal, Mists, West -- writes:

>That brings forth a question or two:

>How long on average do most people's swords last?

>and

>I know there are different types of rattan. Can anyone tell us
>the different types and perhaps rate them?

There are two types of rattan, peeled and unpeeled.  The unpeeled stuff
is lumpy and has a yellowish colour; the peeled stuff is all nice and
neat and round and as soft as mush.

I use unpeeled rattan exclusively with a duct tape wrapping only;
I just retired my sword this week after over 18 months of sterling
service.

Don't even bother making a sword from peeled rattan unless you
absolutely can't get the unpeeled stuff; as I said it's as soft as
mush and I can well believe that your swords only last four months.

Just my $0.02 (US$0.0137).

--
Ola'fr Thordarson    Speaking from Arx Draconis in Lochac
(David Eddy - dave@metapro.DIALix.oz.au - standard disclaimers apply)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: amy@lloyd.Camex.COM (Amy Lindsay)
Subject: Re: Crown designs
Organization: Camex Inc., Boston MA
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 10:36:39 EST

In article <1802@niktow.canisius.edu> salley@niktow.canisius.edu (David Salley) writes:
>
>Is it a post-period notion or simply a SCAdian notion?  Anyone know how often
>the Queen of England wears a crown instead of one of her many hats?  Does
>Princess Di even _own_ a crown?

Actually, when I was in England we went to visit the Tower of London
asked asked that very question to someone who was there.  The current
royal family generally wears tiaras, at least the women do, and they
have different tiaras for different kinds of occasions.  If the
occasion is sufficiently informal, they just wear hats.

I liked this idea since they looked LIGHT (not to mention the fact
that the didn't have those stupid BOLTS which dig into your skull!)
but, alas, I couldn't convince anyone to switch over to tiaras, and
after I stepped down, there didn't seem to be any point in continuing 
the Crusade for Lighter Royal Headgear...

					--erill
A.G.Lindsay, PP-ASEL   *   Cloud Rental: Reasonable Rates   *   amy@camex.com 
Typography & Design Department ~ Camex, Inc. ~ Boston, MA (617-426-7550 x575)
	 There are two Rules of Life from which all others derive:
		 1.  Don't be stupid.  2. Don't be a jerk.
From: doconnor@sedona.intel.com (Dennis O'Connor)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: HELP WANTED RE KINGDOM AWARDS
Date: 14 Dec 92 09:31:52
Organization: Intel i960(tm) Architecture
NNTP-Posting-Host: potato.intel.com
In-reply-to: vnend@nudity.UUCP's message of Sun, 13 Dec 92 15:54:24 -0500


vnend@nudity.UUCP (David W. James) writes:
] doconnor@sedona.intel.com (Dennis O'Connor) writes:
] > So I haven't yet cut into the 4'x12' .063" 6061T6 aluminium sheet
] > I bought to make it out of yet. What ? Aluminium ? But that wouldn't
] > be authentic ! Maybe not, but once we've red-anodized it ( Mongols
] > would have sometimes laquered it ), it will look like it, and be built
] > like it, but work much better as SCA armour than the original !
]
]				 Sigh.
] Kwellend-Njal

I'm not sure what the sigh means. It's not like many people use
the _real_ material for functioning SCA armour : hand-forged iron
or steel, as opposed to modern cold-rolled steel, or period-tanned leather,
or actual forge-welded links for chain. We are not a museum, after all.
ANd period armour was meant to stop sharp swords, not rattan.
I'd certainly be duly impressed by someone who DID make their
armour out of really period material, but I don't bemoan it's absence.

Non-period _looking_ armour, such as uncovered white plastic, does tend
to detract from the mood of an event, but, it's all some people
can afford, so I don't hold it against them. That's why I want to
anodize and dye the aluminum : painting and laquering was period,
and anodizing will look more like that than aluminum looks like steel.
Why anyone would object to period-looking SCA armour, regardless of the
details of it's construction, I really don't understand. And someone
wanting to compromise safety for authenticity is even more a mystery.



--
Dennis O'Connor			doconnor@sedona.intel.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: comptec92024@camins.camosun.bc.ca
Subject: Re: Aluminum Armour/rules 
Organization: Camosun College
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 09:48:36 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.201320.27611@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu>, tip@lead.aichem.arizona.edu (Tom Perigrin) writes:
> In article <DOCONNOR.92Dec16090456@potato.sedona.intel.com> doconnor@sedona.intel.com (Dennis O'Connor) writes:
> 
(stuff removed to save space) 
> So, would somebody who has Corpora and other appropos documents please
> be so kind as to tell us what the rules actually are?
> 
> Thanks
> Tom Perigrin
================================================================================
RULES?  To me the SCA has always been about FUN, LEARNING and TEACHING. The
RULES, at least as far as fighting goes, are there to keep what we do SAFE. I
think considering just how flaky much of what we do in the SCA is that we
should heavily practice the gentle art of TOLERANCE. After all what you sow so
shall you reap (you can quote me on that one). My boat has room on the rowwing
benches for just about everyone: we may not go in a straight line but we do see
some pretty places.
.  
                   Mackenzie
From: Tim@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Tim)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
From: uplink@cwis.unomaha.edu (Axel Rose)
Subject: Apologies about last post
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 09:28:27 GMT

Greetings from the Bandit...

	I must apologize for that last post.  I had a bad day yesterday
and people from other newsgroups can tell you how much trouble I start
when I have bad days.  Plus, it was posted around 4 AM, and my higher
brain functions tend to shut down around 2 AM.  Granted, I have been 
frustrated with the SCA, and Lonely Tower in particular, but this isn't
the place to say anything.  I subscribed to this newsgroup to hear
about what the rest of the Society was doing, not to harp about my own
problems.

	So please, accept my sincere and humble apologies.

Axel, the Bandit

--
sig deleted
From: irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Brent Irvine)
Subject: Primitive FireArms
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 05:20:57 GMT


Are primitive firearms, like hand cannons, or early matchlock (of course,
with no gunpowder or fire-ability, just for looks) be of period?

Jus' curious...
Brent

-- 
+-------------------------+-----------------+---------------------------------+
| Brent L. Irvine         | NE PER INGENIUM | The above personal opinions     |
| irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu | MEUM SED DEI    | can be yours too for only $50!  |
+-------------------------+-----------------+---------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: doconnor@sedona.intel.com (Dennis O'Connor)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Another forbidden weapon
Date: 15 Dec 92 09:01:38
Organization: Intel i960(tm) Architecture
	<92Dec09.152446.15242@acs.ucalgary.ca>
	<1992Dec12.001501.3914@xn.ll.mit.edu>
	<92Dec14.192915.25310@acs.ucalgary.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: potato.intel.com
In-reply-to: parr@acs.ucalgary.ca's message of Mon, 14 Dec 92 19:29:15 GMT


parr@acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr) writes:
] [WRT jousting ]
] I must be frank about this. If it scares you silly, it behooves
] you to stay away. No-on will holda lance at your neck and force
] you to tilt. Those riding will have chosen to participate in a
] dangerous sport, but *they* chose.
...
] See again the paragraph above. It's dangerous. So is mountain
] climbing...As long as the spectators are safe, and the menace
] is to those who have chosen to participate, it is our duty to
] let them play their game without interference.

Of course, the horse doesn't get much say in the matter. Depending
on where you stand in the "animal rights" spectrum, you may disagree
with this statement, find this a non-issue, or be outraged.
There is no provably right position : it's a personal choice.

Myself, I'd never allow one of my horses to be used in any joust,
but have no objections to anyone else doing so as long as the
proper precautions are taken.
--
Dennis O'Connor			doconnor@sedona.intel.com
From: robear@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Jay Michael)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: On the nature of armor....
Date: 20 Dec 92 10:35:17 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

I was thinking of a different approach to the philosophy behind SCA armour-
based on the purpose of our fighting itself.  It was my impression that
the whole purpose behind heavy fighting was to recreate medieval sword
fighting as accurately as possible without getting anyone hurt.  This is
why we have to hit hard, because we want to learn the skills behind landing
an authentic blow.  This is also why we use rattan sticks instead of real
swords. It seems odd to contrast the rattan stick with trying to make the 
armor we're wearing as authentic as possible.  No one who is SCA fighting
will _ever_ look period, for that very reason-we are forced from the outset
to use our imaginations.
	The purposes of SCA armor seem to me to be:  1) functional and
2) to _look_ authentic.  That's one of the nice things about aluminum, that
it will look like shiny steel, and is also quite functional in it's role
to protect.  The definition of functional is:  able to withstand the abuse
of a rattan mock sword, or other mock weapon.  These constraints 
necessarily divert our attentions from authentic armor.
	Authentic armor, in all actuality, should be in a class all by itself,
much as the other arts and sciences.  This authentic armor would be purely
for display, and instead of focusing on having a grill across the face to
protect from the rattan clubs and such, _real_ helmets could be made and
worn to impress.  I would certainly be impressed to see an authentically 
made set of early european chain mail and faceless helm (naturally lacking
elbow and knee protection), or other such period armor, but I would not
want to be in a heavy combat with it.  Besides the obvious reasons, I wouldn't
like to see such a nice suit get all dented up ;).
	So I think we're talking about two different things:  authentic
fighting style, and authentic armor.  We've had to make necessary sacrifices
in armor authenticity to learn good fighting style.
	So here's to aluminum and well hid plastic!

Aelfgar von Echternach
From: bq434@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael A. Chance)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: REQUEST: Address of Seneschal of Greyniche, Meridies
Date: 17 Dec 1992 16:51:12 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: bq434@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael A. Chance)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Hallo!

Sorry to interrupt, but no one here in either Three Rivers or Shattered
Crystal currently receives Popular Chivalry.  Could some kind soul
please provide me with the name and address of the current seneschal of
Greyniche, Meridies (Memphis, TN)?  Please send it directly to one of
the Email addresses below, to help save bandwidth ("reply" should work,
as well).

Thanks for your help.

Mikjal Annarbjorn
Barony of Three Rivers, Calontir
Barony of Shattered Crystal, Midrealm
=============================================================================

GATHERING OF THE CHIEFTAINS III - January 30, 1993 - Barony of Three Rivers
Calontir's Premier Round Shield and Mass Weapons Tourney!
Write for details via Email

=============================================================================
-- 
Michael A. Chance          St. Louis, Missouri, USA    "At play in the fields
Work: mc3078@sw1sta.sbc.com                             of St. Vidicon"
Play: bq434@cleveland.freenet.edu
      mchance@nyx.cs.du.edu
Xref: sparky rec.org.sca:16866 soc.history:10268
From: cc697@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Eric Oppen)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca,soc.history
Subject: Byzantine First Names Needed
Date: 20 Dec 1992 07:53:47 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: cc697@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Eric Oppen)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


I would like to know where I would find a list of common given (first)
names used by the people of the Byzantine Empire, for a writing project I
am doing.  Anybody with ideas, please e-mail me as well as posting here,
since I  am not on the net as much as I'd like.

Efkharisto!

-- 
It is caffeine alone that sets my mind in motion.  It is through beans of
java that thoughts acquire speed, that hands acquire shakes, that shakes
become a warning...I am...IN CONTROL...OF MY ADDICTION!
---From the Minicon Graffiti Wall, 1989(?)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman)
Subject: Re: Heraldic questions...
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 20:09:50 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

Greetings from Arval! Iain asked:

> Arval makes many good observations (all deleted for brevity), but then
> includes a note saying that armorial uniqueness wasn't enforced in period
> (with caveats, of course, but I think my following question doesn't run
> into any of them).  What then was the Scropes trial in the late
> fourteenth (early fifteenth?

What I wrote was:

> Through most of the period of the use of armory, there was no formal
> authority which could ensure or enforce uniqueness of armory.  The
> evidence shows us that armigers did make some effort to maintain
> uniqueness locally, but it was done informally and it certainly was not
> done globally.  Even in the later Middle Ages, when royal officers
> regulated armory in a few kingdoms, no one attempted to enforce
> uniqueness even over the entire kingdom, let alone between kingdoms.

I apologize.  The first statement overstated the facts: The period of
heraldry begins roughly 1150, and I believe that evidence of a legal policy
that armory should be unqiue in a given jurisdiction is found in the 14th
century.  "Most of the period..." should have read "much of the period..."
However, note that this is in England, where the development of formal
regulation of armory outstripped all other kingdoms.  In other places, any
formal regulation of armory came later, and in some places never developed
at all in our period.  Even in England, there was no independent authority
dedicated to this task until late in the 15th century.  Furthermore, it is
important to note that one of the results of the Scropes-Grosvenor case was
to limit the scope of armorial uniqueness, by a ruling that a device used
in Cornwall did not conflict with one used in England.

===========================================================================
Arval Benicoeur                                       mittle@watson.ibm.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: ddfr@quads.uchicago.edu (david director friedman)
Subject: Re: HELP! name searching.
Reply-To: ddfr@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 05:08:33 GMT


"Kveldulfr was in fact a very unsavory character, associated with the
worst kinds of magic; the "werewolf" insinuation is definitely
present there." (Bjalfi)

Yes and no. The implication that he (like Erik's queen and Hrolf
Kraki) was a shapechanger is there, but I do not think the Norse
shapechanger can be equated to our werewolf. There is nothing
Kveldulf actually does in Egilsaga that is more "unsavory" than
knowing what things are going to happen (as does Njal, who is surely
not an unsavory character) and going berserk on one notable occasion. 

When you say he was in fact an unsavory character, do you mean
Kveldulf in Egilsaga or are you talking about some other reference to
the same person? I would have said that Kveldulf in Egilsaga is
rather less unsavory than his grandson Egil. The whole dark side of
the family (Kveldulf/Skallagrim/Egil) are strange and rather
frightening people, but they are dangerous more in the way a wild
animal is dangerous than in the way an evil man is dangerous. And in
the saga, they are the heros--waging, with honor and some success, a
multigenerational family feud with the royal family of Norway.

David/Cariadoc
From: salley@niktow.canisius.edu (David Salley)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Inter Library Loans (ILL) [was Re: Heraldic references...]
Date: 17 Dec 92 06:51:18 GMT
Organization: Canisius College, Buffalo NY. 14208

Lynn Catlett writes:
> (grrrr)  Please tell, folks:  
> 	Does YOUR library "discourage" ILL?
> 	
> 	Does it *refuse* you the service unless you can
> 	  demonstrate that it bears directly on a) your
> 	  job or b) your major, like my charming employer?
> 	  (Heaven forefend any of us might want to know
> 	  anything outside our major/need-to-know)

Having read virtually every book that's ever been printed on the subject of
juggling (about 20), most of them courtesy of ILL, I have to say that the 
Buffalo and Eire County Public Library System has been marvelously helpful.

They haven't come through every time, but they've tried every time.  One time
when they couldn't find a particular book, they asked me where I got the title
from.  I showed them the encyclopedia article which listed the article writer 
as being the author of the juggling book I asked for.  Once they had that info,
they got the book from The Library of Congress!
                                                       - Dagonell

SCA Persona : Lord Dagonell Collingwood of Emerald Lake, CSC, CK, CTr
Habitat	    : East Kingdom, AEthelmearc Principality, Rhydderich Hael Barony
Disclaimer  : A society that needs disclaimers has too many lawyers.
Internet    : salley@niktow.cs.canisius.edu
USnail-net  : David P. Salley, 136 Shepard Street, Buffalo, New York 14212-2029
From: zebee@wattle.itd.adelaide.edu.au (Zebee Johnstone)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: You know you're in the SCA when...
Date: 16 Dec 92 08:20:30 GMT
Organization: The University of Adelaide
NNTP-Posting-Host: wattle.itd.adelaide.edu.au

Godfrey de Shipbrook <jlee@smylex.UUCP> writes:

>You know you're in the SCA when...

>...you give someone a hug, and when you see the expression on her face,
>   belatedly remember that you're wearing a rather well-stuffed codpiece.

As was said of a certain gentle of my acquaintance:

"That's not a codpiece - it's a waist-level hatrack!"


Selfran the Singer
Barony of Innilgard, in the Principality of Lochac
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
     Zebee Johnstone  DoD #605   | You don't own an Italian motorcycle 
     Adelaide City Council       |  - you merely have the privilege 
    zebee@itd.adelaide.edu.au    |    of paying its bills....
From: Suze.Hammond@f56.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Suze Hammond)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Another forbidden weapon
Date: 13 Dec 92 20:07:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: therose.724381469.AA00000

In a message to All <12-09-92 18:27> John T Dillon wrote:

JT>  Police horses normally follow their riders orders, however...  There
JT>  is
JT>  always the one time when one spooks and it will then flee at a high
JT>  rate
JT>  of speed.
JT>
JT>  It is really something to see a police horse bounding subcompacts,

Just last week a formerly perfectly sane carriage company horse, used for 
several years pulling a four-wheeler downtown (and a draft horse, at that, 
Belgian breed) just spooked, they still don't know why, and took off with an 
empty carriage. Ended up with the carriage jammed between a building and a 
row of parked cars on its top, a complete ruin.

This horse has been in parades, publicity shots with flashbulbs and video 
lights at night, weddings with cans tied to the carriage, screaming 
high-school graduation groups... No appearant reason except the horse was 
alone for a minute and had no human to explain something unexpected.

(Horse survived. Want a good horse? They refuse to sell her for carriage 
work... $2,000 for a purebred.)

Horses also suffer self-doubt... :-)

Moreach

(no email to this BBS) 
 
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: ilaine@panix.com (Liz Stokes)
Subject: Re: Knitting 
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 14:28:56 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix & Internet, NYC


	knitting is indeed period, though late. If you like knitting hats and
gloves you are in luck, there are several examples of each of these extant.
Hand-knit stockings are the perfect accessory but if you are going to do them
in the proper fineness, you will be at it a while :)
							-Ilaine
-- 
Liz Stokes         | 	Ilaine's E-Z Garb Workshop
Ilaine de Cameron  | 	For this simple t-tunic you will need to spin about
                   | 	6000 yards of wool yarn.  Yes, spinning wheels are
ilaine@panix.com   |    faster. Sorry, no they aren't period for 1066.
Organization: Doctoral student, Industrial Administration, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA