HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kuryakin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Rick Pavek)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Gerrold
Date: 28 Jul 92 22:01:03 GMT
Organization: Boeing Computer Services

In article <1992Jul24.140932.1@us.oracle.com> cracicot@us.oracle.com writes:
>Does anybody know when/if the final book of the
>Rage For Revenge / Matter for Men / Day for Damnation
>series will be published.

Wouldn't we all...

The NEXT (not the last) is slated to be released Jan '93.  This is according
to the Bantam Books SF Publicist.  It will be called A Season for Slaughter.
The next is, so far, untitled.  The sixth is supposedly the last.  There
is, according to Gerrold, a definate resolution.

Rick

-- 
Rick Pavek                            | Never ask a droid to outdo its program.
kuryakin@bcstec.boeing.com            |           
AppleLink:  kuryakin                  | It wastes your time           
pavrjg00%ccmail@ada3.ca.boeing.com    |          and annoys the droid.  
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: ckd@eff.org (Christopher Davis)
Subject: Re: Hyperion covers
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation Tech Central
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 08:32:02 GMT

Bill> == Bill Thomas <bt16+@andrew.cmu.edu>

 Bill> It seems strange that the artist read enough of the book to give
 Bill> a fair representation of the Shrike in every respect except this
 Bill> one -- and it's a pretty obvious one.

Yeah?  Check out the cover of Lawrence Watt-Evans's _With a Single
Spell_.  Note that one of the two people has to be Peren the White, who
is an albino.  Note that neither of them looks albino. :-)

This stuff happens...
--
Christopher Davis * ckd@eff.org * System Administrator, EFF * +1 617 864 0665
   ``The First Amendment is often inconvenient.  But that is besides the
  point.  Inconvenience does not absolve the government of its obligation
         to tolerate speech.'' --Justice Anthony Kennedy, in 91-155
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Just read _Hyperion_/_Fall of...
From: jjfink@skcla.monsanto.com
Date: 22 Jul 92 10:26:01 GMT
Organization: Searle, Skokie, IL
Nntp-Posting-User: mas

In article <694@tdat.teradata.COM>, swf@teradata.com (Stanley Friesen) writes:
Regarding Hyperion/Fall of...

> How one writer could manage all of those different styles so well ...

That's nothing.  Simmons seems to take on writing styles and genres like I do
shoes.  Summer of Night is VERY Stephen King.  Carrion Comfort is much like a
Dean Koontz horror/thriller.

The other books I've read of his, Phases of Gravity and Song of Kali are also
excellent.  There are some things from his personal experience that run through
a number of his books:  Calcutta is in PoG and SoK, and is also a good model
for Jacktown in Hyperion.  The Shrike in Hyperion is very much like the Hindu
Kali.

Read Song of Kali.  Now.

-- 
jjfink@skcla.monsanto.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Portions of the preceding were recorded.  As for the rest, I quite fear that
 it was all in your mind" -- Alfred Hitchcock
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: ericg@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (E. Chris Garrison)
Subject: Re: space opera:  definition
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 22:08:53 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.071843.4307@bb1t.monsanto.com> bjgaed@bb1t.monsanto.com writes:
>I hope that the analogy was *not* intended to continue "...and 'space 
>opera,' for bad science fiction."  Some of us dearly love this 
>sub-genre.  

Oh, yes, space operas are really entertaining.  Familiar characters,
uncomplicated plots, adventure, excitement...  What more could you
ask for for escape?

I even run a game occasionally based on space operas...

>Space operas allow me to check reality at the door 
>more completely than any other form of entertainment, and I think they 
>are basically harmless, and they are inexpensive.  How many forms of 
>recreation have all that going for them?  Who wants to go through life 
>dealing with reality *all* the time? Yechh!

That is exactly how I feel, bravo!  Asimov himself says this is
how the "first" science fiction fans who read the pulps felt.
(Asimov being one of them, of course).

>Now we need a more comprehensive term.  Walter Jon Williams' 
>_Hardwired_ fits all the good-guy/bad-guy/flashy tech criteria, but 
>takes place on earth (or at least in-atmosphere), and does it *damn* 
>well.  *I* would include it on my "Ten Best Space Operas" list.  Other 
>opinions?  A new name, perhaps?

Space Operas I can think of:

- The "Alacrity Fitzhugh and Hobart Floyt" books by Brian Daley. (great
  light and funny science fiction).
- The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy (though this is really a parody
  of space operas).
- The Stainless Steel Rat books by Harry Harrison.
- I count Asimov's Foundation here, but only because of age.
- The Star Wars books, including Daley's Han Solo books.

I can't think of any more just now.  There are dozens, like the
Perry Rhodan and the Lensman ones that I have not read.

I'd like to see a list of the "Ten Best Space Operas" as well.

Eric

-- 
------
E. Chris Garrison
Technical Support
ericg@ucs.indiana.edu
From: bleys@tronsbox.xei.com (Bill Cavanaugh)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Do not forget to send in your ESF Award ballot
Date: 28 Jul 92 01:26:46 GMT
Organization: Xanadu Enterprises Inc.

In article <1992Jul24.210506.18567@clarinet.com> esf-ballot@clarinet.com writes:
>ESF Award voting had been sparser than I had hoped, so it's time for
>a reminder.   All 7 hugo nominated short stories this year are available
>by anonymous FTP.  If you got them and read them, be sure to send in
>a ballot for the Electric Science Fiction Award.   I will probably present
>this award at the Worldcon.
>
[stuff deleted]
>
>All 7 stories are available by anonymous FTP on sf.clarinet.com in the
>directory "sf".   They are also available on gatekeeper.dec.com in the
>directory "pub/sf."   These are copyrighted, further reproduction is
>prohibited and they are only available for a limited time.  Stories can
>also be had via e-mail using the ftpmail server.  Mail to ftpmail@decwrl.dec.com
>a message just "help" in the body.
>

I'm probably not the only person who, after sending five seperate
requests to the mail server without getting a response, gave up.  I'd
love to vote, but I won't without reading the stories.  Since I'm at a
uucp site, I can't ftp, and the mail server seems to be so swamped
that all five messages ended up in a bit bucket.

bill
-- 
 *         Bill Cavanaugh       bleys@tronsbox.xei.com          *
 *                                                              *
     "That whole thing about the 'child within' I've always
      felt to be kinda stunted in a way."
                           Tim Burton (speaking to Bob Costas)
XY + XX = :-)
From: bjgaed@bb1t.monsanto.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: space opera:  definition
Date: 23 Jul 92 07:18:43 CST
Organization: Monsanto Company, St. Louis, MO

In article <1992Jul22.192142.12644@pbhyc.PacBell.COM>, djdaneh@pbhyc.PacBell.COM (Dan'l DanehyOakes) writes:

[Definitions deleted]

> The term comes by analogy for "soap opera," for bad romances, and "horse
> opera," for bad westerns.
> 
> Dan'l Danehy-Oakes, Net.Roach

I normally would not have the temerity to rattle Dan'l's cage, but 
he's been gone for a while (welcome back, Dan'l; we missed you) so 
what the hell.

I hope that the analogy was *not* intended to continue "...and 'space 
opera,' for bad science fiction."  Some of us dearly love this 
sub-genre.  For many of us, back *many* years ago, space operas got us 
hooked on sf.  For me it was Heinlein's juvenile fiction, where most 
of his philosphizing either hadn't developed, was left out, or 
thankfully went right over my head.  But it was a lot of fun and 
appealed to my adolescent romanticism.  

When done well, space operas are the most fun you can have without a 
prescription.  (When done badly, they are just as frustrating as any 
other badly done writing: they waste time.)  I read them for fun, and 
I read them over and over.  They *entertain* me better than any 
movie/tv entertainment.  My father, when he could still see, loved to 
read Louis L'Amour westerns, and those are certainly "horse operas", 
and I am sure many people like to read good romance fiction.  (I know, 
I know, "soap operas" were first radio, now tv romance serials.  Save 
the bandwidth.)  Is there a " ----- opera" term for mysteries?

Space operas allow me to check reality at the door 
more completely than any other form of entertainment, and I think they 
are basically harmless, and they are inexpensive.  How many forms of 
recreation have all that going for them?  Who wants to go through life 
dealing with reality *all* the time? Yechh!

Now we need a more comprehensive term.  Walter Jon Williams' 
_Hardwired_ fits all the good-guy/bad-guy/flashy tech criteria, but 
takes place on earth (or at least in-atmosphere), and does it *damn* 
well.  *I* would include it on my "Ten Best Space Operas" list.  Other 
opinions?  A new name, perhaps?


--Electric Monk            (Bruce Gaede); 
                            e-mail: bjgaed@ccmail.monsanto.com

"...and then time started seriously to pass."
--Douglas Adams, _Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency_
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: jglarson@watmsg.waterloo.edu (Johan Larson)
Subject: SF Demographics
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 17:34:07 GMT

What are the demographics of the SF readership?
How big an effort have the publishers made to determine it?
-- 
Johan Larson
                    The net is packed with objectivists, anarchists, 
                    libertarians and self-appointed threats to the current 
                    order, writing on company time with company equipment.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: jfc@athena.mit.edu (John F Carr)
Subject: Re: Dealing with Jump shock (Re: The Moat around God's Eye)
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 01:31:10 GMT

In article <3481@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP>
	hnkst2+@pitt.edu (Hanhwe N Kim) writes:

>Something occurred to me while reading this thread:
>How do the Imperials deal with Jump Shock themselves
>when they have to invade a hostile seccesionist planet?

It's been a few years since I read the story in which this
problem was discussed, but as I recall there is sufficient
uncertainty in the location of the jump point (or maybe in
the location where a ship emerges into normal space) that
you are lucky to be able to attack immediately.  The defender
has an advantage, but the attacker may have time to prepare.

--
    John Carr (jfc@athena.mit.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: qvortrup@inf.ethz.ch (Michael Qvortrup)
Subject: "Understand" by Ted Chiang 
Organization: Dept. Informatik, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH), Zurich, CH
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 10:11:58 GMT

Now, why did I keep thinking of small mice running maces and
flowers floating on the water while reading this story?

Greetings,
--Mike

-- 
#include <std-disclm.h>--"... and there is a small flaw in my character."---
Real Life: Michael Christian Heide Qvortrup      A Dane         ETH, Zuerich
e-mail   : qvortrup@inf.ethz.ch                  abroad         Switzerland
Institut fuer wissenschaftliches Rechnen  /  Inst. of Scientific Computation
From: edgar@function.mps.ohio-state.edu (Gerald Edgar)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: SF Demographics
Date: 31 Jul 1992 11:11:48 -0400
Organization: The Ohio State University, Dept. of Math.
NNTP-Posting-Host: function.mps.ohio-state.edu

In article <1992Jul24.173407.18092@math.waterloo.edu> jglarson@watmsg.waterloo.edu (Johan Larson) writes:
>What are the demographics of the SF readership?
>How big an effort have the publishers made to determine it?

I have no data, but it might be interesting.

In one of Arthur C. Clarke's books (I think "Rendevous with Rama"??) there
is a remark on why include sex scenes in SF books.  Answer: the typical
reader is a teenage boy.  What is he interested in besides SF?  Sex, of course!

-- 
  Gerald A. Edgar                Internet:  edgar@mps.ohio-state.edu
  Department of Mathematics      Bitnet:    EDGAR@OHSTPY
  The Ohio State University      telephone: 614-292-0395 (Office)
  Columbus, OH 43210             -292-4975 (Math. Dept.) -292-1479 (Dept. Fax)
From: fwp@CC.MsState.Edu (Frank Peters)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Errors in Covers (was Re: Hyperion covers)
Date: 24 Jul 92 20:08:26 GMT
Organization: Computing Center, Mississippi State University

In article <1992Jul24.161156.29118@col.hp.com> lpj@col.hp.com (Laura Johnson) says:
: Good God. This is appalling. I'd like to suggest that, as rec.arts.sf.*
: posters discover such books, they prominently post the titles. (_Friday_
: and _The_Cat_Who_Walked_Through_Walls_ have been mentioned so far, I
: believe.)
: 
: Then I'd like to suggest that rec.arts.sf.* readers (and their friends,
: coworkers, etc.) boycott these books. If you want to read them, get them 
: from the library or borrow them from a friend; just don't pay money for 'em.

I think you are going after the wrong target.  It is indeed appalling
that books with whites on the cover sell better than books with
minorities on the cover.  Publishers and authors are in the business of
giving us the customers what we want to buy.  If what we the customers
want to buy (speaking in the broad sense of course) is appalling
then...well, thats what we the customers want to buy and blaming the
publishers and authors isn't going to get us anywhere.  The READERS are
the ones who need to change.
--
Frank Peters  -  UNIX Systems Programmer  -  Mississippi State University
Internet: fwp@CC.MsState.Edu  -  Phone: (601)325-7030  -  FAX: (601)325-8921
From: phs172m@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au (Stephen Harker)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Unwillingly To Earth (Pauline Ashwell)???
Date: 30 Jul 92 08:52:34 +1000
Organization: Physics Department, Monash University, Australia

In article <ak+vH+=sr8@atlantis.psu.edu>, D. Jay Newman <dn5@apix.psu.edu> writes:
> Hi:
> 
> I just read the book _Unwillingly to Earth_, and I *know* that I
> have read this before.
> 
> I have the feeling that it was in an early 1960's issue of Analog.
> The version I read before was shorter, but with the same ending.
> The characterization was also what I remember.
> 
> If anybody knows when this was first published, please respond!
> 
> ** Flame On **
> I really hate it when publishers do not mention in the publishing
> information that a book has been previously published (or was
> expanded from a shorter work which was)!
> ** Flame Off **

	The following were the stories that I was able to find in my
database which were published in Analog/Astounding about Lizzie Lee:-

	Unwillingly to School,	Jan 1958
	The Lost Kafoozalum,	Oct 1960
	Rats in the Moon,	Nov 1982

Whether any other related stories were published in other magazines I don't
know.  As I have not read the novel version I cannot say whether it is
expanded beyond these three or not.  Hope this is of some help.

-- 
Stephen Harker			phs172m@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au
Monash University		Baloney baffles brains: Eric Frank Russell
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,alt.config
From: chris@visix.com (Chris Cole)
Subject: Re: CFW: alt.fan.dune
Organization: Visix Software Inc., Reston, VA
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 21:30:42 GMT


i'm in favor.

how about calling it alt.fan.herbert, tho?

Destination: Void, The Jesus Incident, Whipping Star ...

chris
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Book identification request
From: Marty Helgesen <MNHCC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Thursday, 30 Jul 1992 10:17:46 EDT
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center

Can anyone identify the book described in the following paragraph?
I have no recollection of this book, but am posting the request for
someone else.  He says he read it probably about twenty years ago.

"In some future Earth time, society is structured by rigid class
distinctions based on a complex intellectual, emotional, and physical
testing process.  Status is labeled by color classifications--blue,
green, orange, yellow, etc.  A stranger appears and rises rapidly
through the testing process to the highest level, something like the
top 0.001 percent of the Earth's population.  At the end, it turns
out that he is an alien, but by mimicking the makeup of a human
sufficiently to pass the highest of tests, he become human."

Thank you for your help.

Marty Helgesen
Bitnet: mnhcc@cunyvm  Internet: mnhcc@cunyvm.cuny.edu

Mammalian chauvinism sucks
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: rob@watney.eng.ohio-state.edu (Rob Carriere)
Subject: Re: Brain size (was Re: the "cause" of homosexuality)
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept of Electrical Engineering
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 08:23:47 GMT

In article <MATT.92Jul24104938@physics16.berkeley.edu>
matt@physics.berkeley.edu writes: 
>In article <burt.711946518@aupair.cs.athabascau.ca>
burt@aupair.cs.athabascau.ca (Burt Voorhees) writes: 
>
>>   The differences in math are in the area of mathematical reasoning and
>> in the best studies I know of they are hugh.  E.g., with a sample
>> population of something like 60,000 mathematically gifted 13 year olds
>> given the math part of the SAT's boys outnumberded girls in the over
>> 700 score group by 13 to 1.  There is the question of how much of this
>> is cultural bias, but one doubts that it all is.
>
>Depends on who "one" is.  Until we can study a society where boys and
>girls are raised in a similar manner, I contend that it is impossible
>to tell whether there are any difference at all between male and
>female behavior that are not due to upbringing.

Indeed, look at the ex-USSR and the PRC, and you will see greatly different
relative abilities.  Oh, and the USSR at least (I don't know the numbers for
the PRC), does considerably better than the USA on math...

I think the first poster (ie the guy on the _second_ attribution line :) is
greatly underestimating the power of 12 years of brainwashing.

SR
---


Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: nickh@CS.CMU.EDU (Nick Haines)
Subject: Re: Restricted breeding (was Re: The Moat around God's Eye)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 18:52:41 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon University
	<14808@suns6.crosfield.co.uk>
	<1992Jul16.172322.1979@sunb10.cs.uiuc.edu>
	<1992Jul17.070458.2156@oracle.us.oracle.com>
	<IeNlpMe00VsGM7525q@andrew.cmu.edu> <689@tdat.teradata.COM>
Originator: nickh@VOILA.VENARI.CS.CMU.EDU

In article <689@tdat.teradata.COM> swf@teradata.com (Stanley Friesen) writes:

   [... good points elided ...]

   Motie reproductive biology is something that would never actually evolve,
   or if it did evolve, it would not last long in that form.

Cool. So who designed them? 

:-)/2

(or maybe it's more cultural than Moties like to admit, even to
themselves).

Nick Haines nickh@cs.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,alt.fan.pratchett
From: charless@sco.COM (charles stross)
Subject: Re: _Grunts!_
Organization: The Somewhat Contagious Operation, Inc.
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 08:20:30 GMT


In article <1992Jul16.103520.3764@gdr.bath.ac.uk> eesshlgb@gdr.bath.ac.uk (S H L G Bisson) writes:
>Mary Gentle is perhaps better known for her science fiction and `hard'
>fantasy (_Golden_Witchbreed_,_Rats_and_Gargoyles_) than as a writer of 
>humorous fantasy. However, if you've ever spoken to Mary, you'll not be
>surprised by the contents of her new novel, _Grunts!_. Yes, the "Pass me
>another elf, Sarge, this one's split!" book has finally been published.

Yeah, seconded. I've just finished reading it, and it's everything
it was hyped up to be! As Alex Stewart said: ``_Grunts_ combines the
satirical humor of David Drake with the military know-how of Terry
Pratchett.'' 

Mary has a lot to answer for.  I just can't get this bloody 
book out of my head, dammit! Politically correct orcs, the 
Strategic Air Command elephant, and a Dark Lord who gets bored
trying to conquer the world and decides to do something even
more alarming instead ...

>Basic Bibliographic details:
>
>_Grunts!_
>Mary Gentle
>Bantam UK
>#14.99 (hc)
>
>---=-
>Simon H Le G Bisson..net.jerriais..sf-bibliophile..
>-=---


-- 
Charlie Stross aka charless@scol.sco.com ..... UNIX oriented text mangler
WARNING: The opinions voiced in the preceding electronic document are the
product of a warped mind. Take two before meals. 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: grendal@iat.holonet.net (Dancer)
Subject: Re: Neal Stephenson's _Snowcrash_
Organization: HoloNet (BBS: 510-704-1058)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 03:30:34 GMT

O1DSH@VM1.CC.UAKRON.EDU (David Heck) writes:
: I saw the recent post referencing Stephensons's _Snowcrash_, I've been
: able to get some spare time to catch up on reading and thought I'd give
: this a try.  Is anyone familiar with this author's work?
: 
: David
Read it. Loved it. It's cyberpunk with a good dose of humor thrown in.
Deconstruction ala valley girl and pizza delivery bushido.
From: tedk@jpl.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Ted Ko)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: BOOKS BY DAVID EDDINGS
Date: 21 Jul 92 17:32:53 GMT
Organization: Bellcore

In article <NICKH.92Jul21112621@VOILA.VENARI.CS.CMU.EDU>, nickh@CS.CMU.EDU (Nick Haines) writes:
|> IMHO (since you insist), the Belgariad is ghastly. So bad that I
|> didn't even bother with the others.
|> 
|> What would you say are the interesting, original, or worthwhile points
|> to the Belgariad?
|> 
|> Nick Haines nickh@cs.cmu.edu

To start, let me say that I can't go into an involved dissertation 'cause I don't have the time and it's been several years since I read the Belgariad.

Also, one has to understand the context of the series.  It was written quite a
while back when so many ideas, styles, plots hadn't been exhausted.  Most
importantly, I believe an ideal time to read it is in high school maybe as 
an introduction or starter into the realm of fantasy.

Anyway, some points in Eddings favor:

1) The characters were "solidly" developed with distinct personalities, goals,
troubles, etc. which made the story more personal than some of the shallow
stuff you read nowadays.

2) It was (to use a cliche) a real page-turner.  You could sink yourself into
the story and not leave the world until you realized the book was over.  Again,
I've read a lot of modern stuff which is a serious struggle to finish.

3) It had a good sense of history and the big picture.  The characters actions
were of monumental importance and you could feel the years behind the story.

There's not much else to say.  It's difficult to describe why you enjoy a book
when if you try to dissect it, it becomes that much less enjoyable.  The 
Belgariad has gotta have something going for it or it wouldn't be so incredibly
popular...

<--The-Dark-Elf-<<<
From: brooksp@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Peter Brooks)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Errors in Covers (was Re: Hyperion covers)
Date: 23 Jul 92 20:21:17 GMT
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server

One of the better howlers was _The Fires of Paratime_ by ? Morressy.
The dust jacket and the admin page in the book did *not* agree on
the spelling for the author's name.  (BTW, this was an SFBC edition;
never saw it in hardback otherwise.)

Pete Brooks
From: lwalsh@nemo (Laura L. Walsh)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Name of Book about Prison Planet
Keywords: prison planet
Date: 28 Jul 92 20:20:08 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

I am trying to remember the title and author of
a book about a planet where criminals were taken
and just left with a minimum of survival supplies.
It dealt with the development of law.  Can anyone
remember a title and author?

P.S. I think this would make a neat movie.
Laura