From: mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas)
Newsgroups: alt.individualism,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Age of Consent
Date: 14 Aug 92 16:24:38 GMT
Followup-To: alt.individualism,talk.politics.misc
Organization: Gordian; Costa Mesa, CA

[remove alt.activism since it's not really appropriate

In article <19920813203901ECL4JN2@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU>, ECL4JN2@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (Jack Newsbaum) writes:
> In article <fulton.713720588@copper>, on 13 Aug 1992 15:43:08 GMT,
> fulton@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (Ben Fulton) writes:
> 
> >
> >In <1992Aug12.140306.6303@fig.citib.com> glp@fig.citib.com (Greg Parkinson) writes:
> >
> >>So an emancipated "child" could choose to have a sexual
> >>relationship with an adult?
> >
> >>This stuff is not far off of what NAMBLA proposes.  Perhaps
> >>Cr*m*r will now start choose to rave about how libertarians
> >>advocate child molestation?
> >
> >Big 'L' Libertarians, please.  I support 90% of the Libertarian platform,
> >but the children's rights plank is way off base.  Those who are incapable
> >of personal responsibility need protection.
> For children who remain in their parents' custody, or the custody of
> other guardians, there is no difference between protection of children
> wrt sexual relations with adults between libertarian and non-libertarian
> systems. Children are required to live according to the rules set up by
> their parents, and child abuse is always forbidden. Presumably, the
> parents would not consent to their children having sex with adults.

  I think that it should be stated that a parent/guardian *never*
has the right to violate a charges rights. Thus, there must be 
some minimum standard that a parent/guardian is accountable for.
There are many sticky areas here though. The same standard cannot
necessarily be followed for children as adults. A good example is
punishment: clearly a parent should not be charged with assault
for punishing a child, but certainly there ought to be limits to 
a parents use of force. 
  I think that the issue of pre-pubescent is pretty much a no-brainer
though. Children cannot consent to sex, and the parents approval
should not be an issue. Proscriptions against pre-pubescent sex
are certainly in order. Once a child becomes an adolescent, I
think the matter should fall into the domain of the parents.
Since they are the guardian, they are probably the best ones
to know what the teens emotional maturity is. Also, since they
are the ones that are paying the bills, I think they should have
the right to place whatever restrictions they like on the teens
behavior. 
  In response to Ben's objection, how does an emancipated teen
significantly differ with what is currently taking place? A teen
is perfectly capable of running away from home, and they often
do when they are from abusive families. Allowing teens to legally
emancipate themselves only legitimizes the de-facto. Is there
something significantly wrong with this? 
  If anything, effort should be spent on trying to reach out to
these troubled teens and help them become productive members of 
society. Spending time and effort to return them from whence they
fled seems like a terrific waste. Perhaps a charitable organization
which allows troubled teens to choose new guardians would be a good
idea. 
  I really do not think that we are going to find any bright-line
principles which will solve all cases in a systematic way. It seems
like this the type of thing that is best left up to courts to
decide since the context of each case is clearly very relevant.
  In general I agree that adolescents should be able to emancipate
themselve if they desire -- this is the only reasonable way a 
teen can get away from abusive/negligent parents. Children though
are a much more complicated issue -- clearly you cannot have children
delcaring themselves emancipated because mom won't let them watch
TV for a week. 
  Fuel for the eternal-flame.
-- 

		Michael Thomas	(mike@gordian.com)
	"I don't think Bambi Eyes will get you that flame thrower..."  
		-- Hobbes to Calvin
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Newsgroups: alt.individualism