HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cep@taligent.com (Christophe Pettus)
Subject: Re: Logging PIC (sorry ... sigh )
Keywords: PIC, logging
Organization: Taligent, a little subsidiary of two really big companies.
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 17:13:56 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.000352.9011@tss.com> burke@tss.com (Jim Burke) writes:
>On the other hand, what do you report to your insurance company when
>they ask for things like time in model, etc.?  For high-time pilots this
>won't make any difference, but for lower time pilots an extra 60 hours could
>make a difference in the premium.

Total time = PIC + Dual (that's not otherwise PIC) + Solo.  So, if they
are asking for "total time," dual (pre-private) and solo time count; if
they are asking for PIC, then technically you should exclude solo time
and dual.  Of course, most people fudge this, feeling that they are
asking for "time you were PIC," which is PIC logged + solo logged.

>Also, doesn't pre-PP-SEL time count toward the 125 hours required for the
>instrument checkride?

Absolutely.  FAR 61.65(e)(1) (don't you love these numbers?) asks for
"a total of 125 hours of pilot flight time," so time other PIC counts
just fine.
--
-- Christophe

"He presented it with a length of string, and then passed on to the
Statue of Corrupted Endevour, there to await the arrival of autumn."
From: gcw@castle.ed.ac.uk (G Watson)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Gliding piccie posted
Keywords: gliding, Scottish Highlands, gif files...
Date: 28 Sep 92 16:39:22 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Edinburgh University


In case anyone's interested I've posted one of my gliding piccies of 
flying in wave over the snowy Scottish Highlands to 
alt.binaries.pictures.misc. It's called aboyne.gif and it's in 8 parts.



Gordon Watson.


======================================================================
JANET - G.C.Watson@ed.ac.uk   INTERNET - gcw@edinburgh.meteorology

Edinburgh University Meteorology Department.
======================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: zwork@starfighter.den.mmc.com (Michael Corvin)
Subject: Re: What did you do to the rest of your shirt?
Organization: Martin Marietta Astronautics Group
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 21:46:11 GMT

When I first soloed with Bluenose Soaring (Stanely, Nova Scotia) we
were very mild about it, the tradition being the formal presentation
of a large bouquet of weeds, firm handshakes and/or hugs, and
liberal consumption of 'grounding-juice' after flying activities
had been ended for the day...

After a hiatus from flying of a few years I did my BFR and 'soloed'
again with the MIT Soaring Club.  Despite my protestations that
this was not really a 'solo', I got the bucket of ice water dousing
that was traditional there...  (immortalized in the smudging of
that page my logbook...)

Finally, while adding ASEL to the ticket here in Denver at Aspen
Flying Club I lost the whole back of my shirt to the ravaging
scissors of my CFI, Kevin "The Rod" Holroyd when he sent me off 
on my own...  Annotated and illustrated, the relic now hangs
on a hallway wall at home (unframed).

The indignities never cease...  :-)

Question:  Do the astronauts have any rituals after a first flight?
(Similar to the traditional festivities for seafarers upon
crossing the equator, perhaps?)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Corvin 	      PP-ASEL, PP-G		zwork@starfighter.den.mmc.com
just another spaced rocket scientist at    Martin Marietta Astronautics Group
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
===============    My views, not Martin Marietta's   ========================
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SPOCK'S BRAIN  for President  <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
                      "the logical choice"
From: tpickett@auspex.com (Tom Pickett)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Medical exam (was Re: Beginner needs advice...badly!)
Date: 29 Sep 92 18:41:33 GMT
Reply-To: tpickett@auspex.com (Tom Pickett)
Organization: Auspex Systems, Inc.  Engineering

In article <CSTACY.92Sep29110530@wheat-chex.ai.mit.edu>, cstacy@ai.mit.edu 
(Christopher C. Stacy) writes:
> Hypertension is not specifically mentioned in the requirements, as far
> as I can see.  (Perhaps a doctor on the net can clarify this for us.)

Hypertension is mentioned in the FARs and there are specific limits that
are allowed.  Controlled hypertension is acceptable depending on the drugs
used to control it.  

If you are a member of AOPA, call them and ask to
talk with their medical specialists.  They can work with you to avoid a
problem with your medical.  You should also get in touch with the AME
that you are going to use and discuss the requirements with them.  that
way the AME that will be doing your physical will know about it ahead of
time, and you will all be prepared.

The limits are really quite high, and I worry a little about it each time
I go in.  I have highly variable blood pressure when I'm in a doctors
office, but I have learned to control it to about 117/72.


Tom Pickett 
tpickett@auspex.com
SHO  GOZE
Newsgroups: rec.aviation,rec.aviation.homebuilt
From: doshay@ursa.arc.nasa.gov (David Doshay)
Subject: Re: Seawinds Sea Plane Kit
Organization: NASA-Ames Biocomputation Center
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 17:07:39 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.120206.2809@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>, Charles.K.Scott@dartmouth.edu (Charles K. Scott) writes:
|> In article <1992Oct5.170807.12692@news.arc.nasa.gov>
|> doshay@ursa.arc.nasa.gov (David Doshay) writes:
|> 
|> > Probably two reasons:
|> > 1) it is very normal in single engine sea planes to put the engine high
|> > 	to keep the prop away from water spray
|> > 2) if it faces forward you can use an off-the-shelf constant speed prop
|> 
|> I agree with you David, but all amphibs put the engine high, and
|> mounting the engine on a stalk behind the cockpit but facing forward
|> will accomplish the same thing but with far less difficulty.  I just
|> wonder if the engine was stuck there to "be different"?
|> 

I was being too brief. I should have added:

and putting it in the tail means only one thing sticking up into the air
instead of two, hence prob less overall drag. Another thing that has occured
to me is that if the engine is further back then the pitching moments
from power changes will be less.

David		doshay@soma.arc.nasa.gov

The thought police insist I tell you:
my thoughts, not NASA's
Xref: sparky rec.aviation:16397 rec.aviation.ifr:17 rec.aviation.products:16
From: joel@cfctech.cfc.com (joel lessenberry)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation,rec.aviation.ifr,rec.aviation.products
Subject: New Old Radios
Date: 5 Oct 92 12:15:22 GMT
Organization: Chrysler Financial Corp., Southfield, MI

I own a 1976 cherokee Crusier in very fine condition, but sparsely
radioed. It has a Narco Comm 11a, a Nav 11, and an At 150 encoding
transponder. I want to add enough radios to start to finish my
ifr in it (I was about half through). I am in a strange financial
situation where I really cannot afford to pop for new for a year 
or two, but don't want to give up entirely on the project.

So, I appealing to the Net. Does anyone have, know of, or even have
an idea of where I could find some stuff????

	Audio Panel with mkb
	Nav Comm ILS GS    either separate or together
	ADF	
	DME		   if its cheap

thank you thank you

please post your responses and my Email maps or screwed up at the
moment

		joel
	

		



I plan on doing the install myself, I have someone to assist and sign
Xref: sparky rec.aviation:16366 rec.skydiving:2642
From: kcameron@erc.cat.syr.edu (Ken Cameron)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation,rec.skydiving
Subject: Re: compressed air-horn
Date: 3 Oct 92 14:49:39 GMT
Organization: Electronic Resource Center, Syracuse

To test for the pressure cycle issue find a AAD test chamber and cycle
the horn a couple of dozen times and make sure that the horn is heated to
the max temp you might be jumping in to maximize the pressure.

BTW I too wonder why the horn???

-- 
-ken cameron. SkyDiver: Zoo-602, A-8596, D-11839. Skier.
Employer: Computer Task Group.  /cny UNIX Users Group Director.
Disclamer: "I said it, when I said it, so what! Now is different!"
Internet: kcameron@erc.cat.syr.edu
From: jeffk@sgi.com (Jeffrey Komori)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Solo Rites
Date: 29 Sep 92 17:43:42 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.

In article <1992Sep29.145404.8792@gvl.unisys.com> edd@gvlf4-a.gvl.unisys.com (Ed Dougherty) writes:
>In article <1992Sep28.203300.44@front.se> per@front.se writes:
>
>Gee, I feel left out, when I soloed, nothing at all happened, my instructor
>said pretty good, do another one and that was it, no ceremony, nothing!

Hmmm, I didn't want to admit to it but since you did...

No ceremony either for my first solo.  At least I have my t-shirt intact.
Can't afford to buy a replacement with all my pay going to flying and such.

:-)   :-)   :-)   :-)   :-)

Regards,
Jeff Komori,  PP-ASEL  (and someday, I'll start on the IA part)

--
jeffk@sgi.com   (415) 390-1781   KH6JUZ@N6LDL.#NOCAL.CA.USA.NA   [44.4.1.20]

Information Services of SiliconGraphics Computer Systems, Inc.  Views expressed
above are my own and do not convey views of SGI.
From: woof@hpfcmgw.FC.HP.COM (Steve Wolf)
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 22:20:11 GMT
Subject: Re: Rule Number One
Organization: HP Fort Collins, CO
Newsgroups: rec.aviation

> Maybe you will like to require a "posting checkride" before posting in 
> this group? 

No, more like "three postings to a complete conclusion in the past
ninety days". :-)
--
Steve Wolf				PHONE: (303) 229-2088
Hewlett-Packard				UUCP:  hplabs!fc.hp.com!woof
Fort Collins, CO			ARPA:  woof@fc.hp.com
From: ritter@claude.ma30.bull.com (Roger Ritter)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Logging PIC (sorry ... sigh )
Date: 5 Oct 92 15:39:55 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Bull HN Informations Systems Inc.

tel@cbnews.cb.att.com (thomas.e.lester) writes:
>	61.51 item 2 "Pilot in Command Flight Time"

>    "for which the pilot is rated OR IS THE SOLE OCCUPANT OF THE AIRCRAFT"

>    Excuse for shouting.... ;-)    How do you get "quite explicit"
>    out of that.  Sounds to me like a student logs pic on solo.
>    No one else in in the aircraft. Period.

Sorry, Tom.  You didn't read the beginning of that FAR:

61.51(c)(2) Logging of pilot time - Pilot-in-command flight time.
(i) A recreational, private, or commercial pilot ...

So student pilots don't come under this section.  This comes from my 1991
FAR copy (the '92 is at home), but I don't think it's different this year.
Other sections under 61.51 never quite explicitly say what a student pilot
can log, but by default (since student pilots are excluded from the PIC
flight time section) it must be solo time (see 61.51(c)(1)).



>-- 
>	-----------------------------------------------------------------
>	Tom Lester				att!cblph!tel
>	Sonerai IIL (under TEST)		(614) 860-3259
>	N4LX 					(614) 927-8106
-- 
Roger Ritter N1FZZ (R.Ritter@ma30.bull.com) PP-ASEL, AGI
1946 Luscombe 8A N71983 "Rocky"
Sheep do not so much fly as plummet!        NH CAP: Profile 49
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: tw@cs.mu.OZ.AU (Thomas Weichert)
Subject: MIG29
Summary: Looking for Pics
Keywords: MIG29 Fulcrum
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 06:09:14 GMT

Hi Netters,
Is there anyone out there that has got a couple of pictures in whatever 
format of a MIG 29 Fulcrum in Soviet Service colors?
Possibly even a hint as to which FTP site is good for aircraft pics in
general would be great!!
I don't read this group often, so please mail responses.

Thanx						Thomas

Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: edd@gvlf4-a.gvl.unisys.com (Ed Dougherty)
Subject: Re: Solo Rites
Organization: Unisys Defense Systems, Great Valley Labs, Paoli, Pa
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 14:54:04 GMT

In article <1992Sep28.203300.44@front.se> per@front.se writes:
>In article <1992Sep28.033758.8718@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca>,
>q1hl@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca (Chris Rasley)
>writes about various first-solo rites of passage.
>
>Although these rites of passage vary a lot, there seems to be many


Gee, I feel left out, when I soloed, nothing at all happened, my instructor
said pretty good, do another one and that was it, no ceremony, nothing!

Am I the only one let out; (this was 1970).


Ed Doc
From: hudson@pnet51.orb.mn.org (Hudson Leighton)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: build your own airport
Date: 29 Sep 92 17:05:06 GMT
Organization: People-Net [pnet51], Minneapolis, MN.

A while ago somebody asked about building your own airstrip.

I ordered a catalog of Wisconsin maps and in the catalog was
listed the following:  Standard Specifications for Airport Construction $3.00

WisDot
Maps and Publication Sales
3617 Pierstorff Street
P.O. Box 7713
Madison, WI 53707-7713

/s

UUCP: {crash tcnet}!orbit!pnet51!hudson
INET: hudson@pnet51.orb.mn.org
ICBM: Lat. 44.59 x lon. 93.13
HAM:  NONMX  444.100 repeater
Advertisement: Try the Railway Post Office BBS (612) 377-2197 a Railfan BBS
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: moersch@theory.TC.Cornell.EDU (Jeff Moersch)
Subject: Re: Logging PIC (sorry ... sigh )
Organization: /home/guest/moersch/.organization
	<1992Sep30.202839.25915@tc.fluke.COM> <BvEvyL.EoC@taligent.com>
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 04:40:41 GMT

In article <BvEvyL.EoC@taligent.com> cep@taligent.com (Christophe Pettus) writes:
>   >So what about it.  Do solo hours count as PIC, especially towards my
>   >commercial rating?
>
>   Unfortunately, no.
>   --
>   -- Christophe

This exact question came up after my PP-ASEL checkride.  For one of my
solo x-country student pilot flights, I flew SNA to Stellar Airstrip,
outside PHX, which is something like 290 nm.  I asked my examiner if
that would someday count as my long (250+ nm) x-country if I ever
wanted to get my commercial, and she said it would.  She said the FAA
has recently (this was in August) changed the rules to recognize that
students on solo flights had better be the PIC's because their
instructors are in no position to do so from the ground.

Just my 2 cents from experience.

Jeff Moersch
moersch@theory.tc.cornell.edu
From: rlarsen@bnr.ca (Richard Larsen P220)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: New glider
Date: 1 Oct 92 14:13:47 GMT
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, BNR-RTP

Has anyone test flown the new Gapa primary glider seen in the October 
issue of Soaring? What do you think of it?

Note: I don't have use of E-mail.
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: richards@owl.nstn.ns.ca (Mark Richardson)
Subject: Re: Christavia
Organization: Software Kinetics Ltd.
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 00:00:38 GMT

Hi Folks, again....

Somehow I saw Corky Scotts 4th reply, but I never saw my own message.
Bizarre.  Anyway, my E-mail address is

          richards@hawk.nstn.ns.ca
                   ^^^^

The other address in this message is our news feeder (I'm actually dialed
in from home right now).

Thanks

Mark
****************************************************************************
Mark Richardson                                       Software Kinetics Ltd.
Project Engineer                                            VOX 902-468-3680
richards@hawk.nstn.ns.ca                                    FAX 902-468-3679
****************************************************************************
                Opinions expressed are my own.......right sir?
From: dfr@usna.navy.mil (PROF D. Rogers (EAS FAC))
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: gear-down check
Keywords: gear-down, FAA
Date: 30 Sep 92 01:28:58 GMT
Organization: U. S. Naval Academy

In article <Obrle-860@lopez.marquette.MI.US> stick@lopez.marquette.MI.US (Stick,CommoSigop) writes:
>
>   The idea of making it ATC's responsibility for issuing a "gear down"
>check is wrong.  The ultimate responsibility belongs to the pilot.  Always
>has, always will.  If said pilot would follow checklist procedures ALL THE
>TIME, an inadverdent gear-up landing would never occur.

Ahh.... Please note that I never said or implied that ATC would be
responsible for insuring that the gear was down. I only suggested
that a `check gear down' call be made.

Based on Cindy Hipps note to me it appears that someone either at
the FAA or within AOPA thinks that this might lead to a liability
problem.

Dave rogers
From: dfr@usna.navy.mil (PROF D. Rogers (EAS FAC))
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Canadian Chart LE3/LE4 wanted
Keywords: Canadian, Chart, wanted
Date: 29 Sep 92 01:17:29 GMT
Distribution: na

G'day,

I'm looking for an out-of-date but not too out-or-date
LE3/LE4 chart. This is the one covering the West Coast
up to Alaska.

As you may recall we did not get as far North as we wanted
to last Summer. Next Summer we want to go to Alaska and
acrossed to Siberia and I want see if we can combine going
North to Resolute (Grise Fiord) and then back South through
Resolute-Cambridge Bay-Yellowknife-Fort Simpson and then
North again to Alaska.

It appears that it might not be too much different in distance
(say a 1000 miles or so).

I'll be happy to pay postage and/or exchange a 1990 LE1/LE2.

Dave Rogers
817 Holly Dr. E. Rt. 10
Annapolis, MD 21401
USA
410-757-5724
dfr@usna.navy.mil
From: dfr@usna.navy.mil (PROF D. Rogers (EAS FAC))
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Crash + NEFI + MVY (more crash info + dead Bananna story, really)
Date: 30 Sep 92 01:37:08 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: U. S. Naval Academy

In article <1992Sep29.133948.10219@cbnewsj.cb.att.com! hgp@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (howard.page) writes:
!In article <1992Sep23.183738.1738@eco.twg.com!, reece@eco.twg.com (Reece R. Pollack) writes:
!! The story I've heard is that a Cessna 182 with three aboard clipped the
!! trees and crashed while attempting the ILS 24 into MVY late friday night.
!! Conditions were reported to be 200 ft and 1/2 miles.
!
!I got "the rest of the story" from a Nantucket Airlines pilot - the
!pilot of the 182 "had to be there" for a wedding that day. Ouch!
!
!Now the dead Bananna story: After the NEFI, two of us set off for
!Nantucket. On short final, the engine in my brand spanking new 1958
!Bonanza started running rough. Hmmmmmmm. That's wierd. I landed without
!as problem.
!
!The next day, I decided to take the airplane around the patch (still on
!Nantucket) and try to figure out what was wrong. Well, it failed its
!runup, so it was time to find a mechanic. "Just for fun" I decided to
!open the cowl and eyeball the situation -- low-and-behold one of the
!fuel injector lines had broken off approximately 1 cm above the
!injector. Ouch!  The mechanic, when he finally showed up (Sunday
!evening at 8pm!) said, "Boy, in 20 years, this is only the second
!failure like this I've seen.  The first one burned up!!!" Ouch! Ouch!

For Howard, other Bonanza pilots and other fuel injected engine pilots:

I have had the fuel line nuts come loose! I now test them `finger' tight
on preflight. 

The symptom is that the engine occasionally coughs when `cold' and
runs smooth when hot. It doesnot show up on run-up unless as in
Howards case it `falls off'.

Dave Rogers
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: stellabo@phage.cshl.org (Fred Stellabotte)
Subject: Looking for 1/2 Share Partner - NYC area
Organization: Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 18:01:07 GMT

I am looking for a Partner in a $30k - $40k single
engine retractable .. An Arrow or a Serria ..

The plane would be based on Long Is, NY .. at
Republic, or Islip, or possibily HWV (Brookhaven)..

I am a CFI soon to be a CFII .. with over 1300 hours ..

_______________________________________________________________________
  >| ====  Fred J. Stellabotte                     stellabo@cshl.org  
  >| ====  Computer Systems Manager
  >| ====  CFIA SEL MEL Commerical Instrument         
  >| ==== ___________________________________________________________
  >| ====  Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory         Voice: (516)367-8420
  >| ====  1 Bungtown Road                         Fax: (516)367-8845
  >| ====  Cold Spring Harbor, New York 11724                     
_______________________________________________________________________
From: mtc@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Mark Cousins)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1992 07:14:50 GMT
Subject: Re: dangerous high-time pilots
Organization: HP General Systems Division
Newsgroups: rec.aviation

In rec.aviation, rdd@cactus.org (Robert Dorsett) writes:

>I would suspect that a bad transport pilot in a 172 is probably a bad 
>transport pilot, period.  And vice-versa.

Can't argue that.

The timeliness of this thread is startling -- I met a guy over the weekend who
is a retired 757 captain.  He was about to take our club's 310 somewhere and
was worried about the overcast.  I had just returned from an instrument flight
myself and was wondering what on Earth he'd be worried about.  So i asked --
and his reply was that these planes are just "toys" compared to the airliners.

Sheesh.

What he's forgotten of course is that that 310 is better equipped than any
DC-3 he ever flew, and it's about on a par with, say, 707s.

Attitude problem?  I think so.  I just hope it doesn't get him into trouble.

Mark
-- 
Mark Cousins                Hewlett-Packard Co.        mtc@hpsemc.cup.hp.com
HP-UX VAB programs    19055 Pruneridge Ave., MS 46T5
(408) 447-4659             Cupertino, CA  95014          FAX: (408) 447-4364

Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: q1hl@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca (Nameless CS Student)
Subject: Re: gear-down check
Keywords: gear-down, FAA
Organization: University of New Brunswick
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 08:26:52 GMT

Please let me reply to the following as an airport controller in
Canada.  Naturally, Transport Canada cannot be held liable for
any error or ommission.

In article <2179@usna.NAVY.MIL> dfr@usna.navy.mil (PROF D. Rogers (EAS FAC)) writes:
>Summer before last when flying in Canada I noticed that at
>controlled fields the tower always asked `Confirm gear down'
>before/when issuing a clearance to land.

>"I had our Policy Department investigate into the "gear-down"
>ATC check.
>Apparently, it is not done due to ........  guess what....LIABILITY!
>(the caps are hers) It has, however, been done at various ATC
>facilities with mixed results."

>Frankly, if I were an attorney and had a client that had landed
>gear-up at a controlled field with say lose of life I think I might
>try to show that the FAA was guilty of contributory negligence by NOT
>implementing the "gear-down" check.  I have no idea how successful I
>might be but what the heck weirder things have been successful.

>P.S. I do know that Canada has recently eliminated the gear-down
>check. For liability reasons?????

Controllers in Canada are no longer responsible for a variety of
cautionarys, including gear and wing icing checks.  It was
determined that it is the sole responsibility of the pilot to
properly configure and fly his airplane.

Assuming a pilot is qualified to fly his airplane under the
encountered conditions, requiring a controller to remind a pilot
to lower gear or to inform a pilot of probable icing prior to
take-off serves no purpose other than to introduce the issue of
liability if a controller neglects these "duties" and an
accident ensues.

While the requirement to issue cautionaries has been removed from
MANOPS (ATC Manual of Operations), there is no attempt made to
stop controllers from continuing to issue them as they see fit.
Therefore, whether or not you get a gear-check with your clearance
in Canada will depend largely on how long the controller has been
licenced.  Old habits die hard.
-- 
Chris Rasley
CYFC Tower.
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: hrose@psych.mun.ca (Herbert Rose)
Subject: Re: What did you do to the rest of your shirt?
Organization: Memorial University of Newfoundland
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 14:32:52 GMT

	When I was on glider the post solo ritual was rather complicated.
	On the way back from the field all of the first solo's were
	thrown in a convienent brook.  If it was an instructor's first
	student to solo he or she was also thrown in.  That was just the 
	warm up.  When we got back to the "base", the lucky people, who
	were still in flight suit at baseball hat, were then covered in
	what ever was available.  ie shampoo, pop, molassas was always 
	good.
	Oh well they needed a shower after chasing gliders all day.
Newsgroups: rec.aviation