HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: boaz@concerto.lcs.mit.edu (Boaz Ben-Zvi)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: SW Engineers needed, Maxor-San Jose, CA
Date: 14 Aug 92 18:36:12 GMT
Reply-To: boaz@lcs.mit.edu
Organization: Laboratory for Computer Science, MIT

In article <1992Aug11.192148.20648@tcsi.com> gwu@nujoizey.tcs.com (George Wu) writes:

|> >You must show proof of ability to work in the United States. 
|> .... .  This is for the Immigration and Naturalization Service,
|> which will levy fines against employers employing illegal immigrants.

I recall something about the fine being "up to $2000." This may keep 
illegals from low-paying jobs, but for the high tech  -- the chances
of being caught are small, and the emploee may agree to pay the $2K
him/herself :-)

-- Boaz

===============================================================================
  _              _            __         __ ___  _ _   __ ___    ____      ___
 /_) _  _  __   /_) _   __ __ _/    o     |   |   \| __ |   |     /    \ |   |
/__)(_)(_|__/  /__)(_'_/ /   /__\/_(        __|_ __\    | __|_     \  __\| __|_
          __)                                           |                      
===============================================================================
 Boaz Ben-Zvi <boaz@lcs.mit.edu>     MIT Addr: NE43-526   Tel: (617) 253-6212 
===============================================================================
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: lewis@ils.nwu.edu (Sharon Lewis)
Subject: Re: Temporary agencies
Organization: The Institute for the Learning Sciences
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 20:07:23 GMT



Another thing with temporary jobs becoming permanent is once they want to hire
you they're suppose to "buy" your contract from the agency.  Sometimes this
fee will be so high that unless the employer really wants to hire you you may
find yourself continuing the job search.  I once had an agency want to charge
the employer $2,500 to buy my contract.  Needless to say, the employer did 
not think I was worth it and turned the offer down.

'nother thing about *tempting*, I have had employers want to pay me less than
the agency was paying because they said they were supplying benefits, etc.  I
was actually being paid more than their permanent employees.  Needless to say,
I turned them down!

Xref: sparky misc.jobs.misc:5847 talk.politics.misc:39479
From: paulg@informix.com (Paulastya Gupta)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Why do Americans get so little vacation time?
Date: 13 Aug 92 16:25:03 GMT
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.


This is in reference to the post about somebody preferring a "healthier" 
economy to not taking vacation time.  My experience and education  at Stanford has 
l
eled me to believe totally otherwise.  Let's look at Germany, Japan and US
(chuckle, that old cliche again).  Germans take their vacation time, and they 
are the leader in solid engineering.  Its not how hard you work, but how you do
it:  I know people who will sit at their desk all day passing time, taking 
extended lunch breaks, etc.  No real motivation to work, and it is obvious 
they don't like what they do.  Combine that with the short term perspective 
existing here at ALL levels, and _that_ is what makes or breaks an economy, 
not mindless labor, or the lack thereof.  More points:

1)  In keeping with misc.jobs.misc mainframe, if so many people did not 
have a short term philosophy of looking for that exact "specific skill set 
match" as opposed to getting talented, creative people on board, then you 
wouldn't have this _gross_ societal waste of people wasting their time always 
looking for opportunities, companies always paying recruiters and the expenses 
associated with people coming and going. I've seen ads wanting experience with 
a specific computer package that takes days to learn at most!  Shudder!

2) 



2)  Yeah, take a vacation.  Go see the world.  You may see something new, and 
may become a better person.  Everyone talks about creativity. Get the juices flowing.
But what does that mean?  Sure, some people are more creative than others, but 
the bombardment to our senses that comes especially when going to a different 
country is exactly the kind of thing that breeds creativity.  

3)  Take a break.  Reflect on what is going on, stepping back. Take a long term 
viewpoint.
Since when did the company's health bear an inverse relationship with the
employees?

*************************************************************************

A little problem with my terminal, so some charcters at the end of lines 
may get mixed up.  But anyway, that probably won't change the import of
the contents.  So let's hear the other side.

paulg@informix.com
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc,talk.politics.misc,soc.culture.usa
From: labiche@crchh561.BNR.CA (Maurice LaBiche)
Subject: Re: Why do Americans get so little vacation time?
Reply-To: labiche@crchh561.BNR.CA (Maurice LaBiche)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 20:03:54 GMT


Some of you have expressed a desire to work hard.  OK.
Some of you have expressed a belief that more vacation time will
increase productivity.  OK. 
Consider these points about why we're inclined to work:

1) just to work and stay busy
2) to have our economy be the biggest and best which thereby enhances
   or makes all our lives easier
3) work so you can spend the rest of your life(not working life) doing
   whatever you want
4) work to attain and maintain a certain style of living, common trap.
   sort of like Golden Handcuffs(addicted to paycheck and willing to
   put up with much caca to keep getting it)
 
I think Americans live to work, Europeans work to live.
Well just thought I'd add some more idle banter to the thread.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maurice LaBiche (Mo.L.)         |   labiche@bnr.ca
Bell Northern Research          |   Part of Northern Telecom 
Richardson, Texas               |   i'm really in Texas
------------------------------------------------------------------------
No opinions herein expressed have anything to do with the opinions 
of Bell Northern Research or Northern Telecom or CIA or NSA ...
These statements are mine and mine alone, well i guess my wife 
agrees with some of them?
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc,talk.politics.misc
From: hallam@zeus02.desy.de (Phillip M. Hallam-Baker)
Subject: Re: Why do Americans get so little vacation time?
Reply-To: hallam@zeus02.desy.de
Organization: DESY ZEUS Central Data Acquisition
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 20:21:39 GMT

In article <BsvrJ5.4Fu@apollo.hp.com>, nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter
Nelson) writes:

|>In article <1992Aug12.145254.25386@osf.org> bhaim@osf.org (Bruce
|>Haimowitz) writes:
|>>In article <1992Aug12.023342.7625@panix.com>, gcf@panix.com (Gordon
|>Fitch) writes:
|>>
|>>> The real median wage has been falling steadily in
|>>> the United States for the last 20 years or so.  This has many
|>>> effects, one of them being that Americans are increasingly
|>>> working harder and longer than they used to in an attempt to
|>>> keep up their standard of living.  And there is little pressure
|>>> on employers to offer longer vacations when so many people
|>>> are unemployed.  Europe, while it is not devoid of problems,
|>>> seems to be faring better that the United States in this
|>>> area.
|>>
|>>I think an additional factor to consider is: European unions
|>>are strong and are constantly fighting for additional
|>>vacation time for their members.  Whereas in the U.S.,
|>>unions are relatively weak and their membership is an ever
|>>declining percentage of the workforce.  U.S. employees
|>>have no collective bargaining power to fight for longer vacations.
|>
|>
|>   While I hate to be a trouble-maker (right, Peter, whatever you
|>say)
|>   I just have to ask:  why is vacation time an issue?  TANSTAAFL,
|>and
|>   all that --  SOMEONE has to pay for that European employee's wages
|>   when he's partying on the coast of Spain or fishing in some lake
|>   in Sweden or painting his house in a suburb of Munich.  More
|>   vacation time translates directly into higher labor costs or less
|>   productivity.  Look at Europe's cost-of-living sometime or their
|>   share of the world market in any of the a number of major in-
|>   dustrial sectors.   Personally I'd rather have fewer vacation days
|>|>   and a stronger economy or more profitable company, than lots of
|>   vacation time and watch my nation's economy or my company's 
|>   fade to harder-working competitors.

Strange thing, holidays do not seem to have any relation to the amount
of work that gets done. Longer hours means reduced efficiency.

The Germans seem to be perpetualy on holiday, 37 working days off a year
is not unusual. Thats almost two months. Excluding the reunification
problems there are few ecconomies that are more efficient.


Phill Hallam-Baker
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc,alt.exploding.kibo,alt.imploding.kibo
From: bmarcum@world.std.com (Bill Marcum)
Subject: Re: SEXXX!!!!
Followup-To: alt.exploding.kibo
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 03:32:43 GMT

[Note crossposting and Followup-to: line.  This doesn't really belong on
misc.jobs.misc, but that's where I found it.
RFD: newsgroup misc.jobs.blow ;-> ]

In article <4HecPB6w164w@dvss.UUCP> dvss!jtroy@udel.edu (Jay Troy) writes:
>rauser@fraser.sfu.ca (Richard John Rauser) writes:
>>     Celibacy is GOOD NEWS...so there, Sill.
>
>At least until your head explodes.
>
>
Crossposted to alt.[ex|im]ploding.kibo.
Or kill me.

Xref: sparky misc.jobs.misc:5979 talk.politics.misc:40571 soc.culture.usa:6661
From: mwiz@mpd.tandem.com (Marc Wiz)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc,talk.politics.misc,soc.culture.usa
Subject: Re: Why do Americans get so little vacation time?
Date: 19 Aug 92 15:10:06 GMT
Followup-To: misc.jobs.misc
Organization: Do you really want to know?

In article <Bt8F9G.8p8@apollo.hp.com> nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes:
>
>  I'm just arguing against the idea or forcing or requiring companies
>  to give long periods of time-off to their employees.   If lots of
>  vacation time is such a great productivity-enhancer then you'd think
>  companies would be falling all over themselves to give more time off
>  just for the bottom-line advantages it would offer them.   But, a.) 
>  I don't see this happening in the US, despite the intense competitive
>  environment and the recession, both of which have companies seeking every
>  advantage they can find,  and b.) the two nations with the highest
>  industrial output per man hour are the US and Japan, which are also
>  among the lowest on vacation time.   

The following is my opinion and rantings. :-)

I disagree that companies would be falling all over themselves to give more
time off.  I can't come up with specific examples right now but it seems
IMHO MOST American companies have to be dragged kicking and screaming to offer
something that will make their employees more productive even though
it is not obvious that the "something" will do this.  

I think an excellent example is providing exercise facilities.   Without
getting into a discussion on the merits of exercise it does help.

Marc

-- 
Marc Wiz			Yes that really is my last name.
MaBell:				(512)244-8780
Internet:			mwiz@mpd.tandem.com
The views expressed are my own.  Mine all mine!
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 23:56:20 EDT
From: <U4400@wvnvm.wvnet.edu>
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: What is a good GPA?

In article <1992Aug17.194632.5233@ccad.uiowa.edu>, vrajanik@ccad.uiowa.edu
(Rajanikanth Vemulapalli) says:
>What GPA is considered to be good by the companies? Is it above 3.0 or above
>3.5 or above 3.7 or between 3.9 and 4.0 (on a 4.0 scale)? How important is
>GPA in getting a job? Will companies give high priority to GPA? How important
>is the school? Is it true that the name of school will carry a lot of weight?

I've never had anyone give a hoot about GPA.  Mine's pretty good, but no
one ever even asks.  As for the name of the school, it only matters in 3
cases: 1) it is a very top-notch everyone recognizes it kind of school
like Harvard, Yale or Princeton, 2) the interviewer went to the same
school you did, or their kid did, or their best friend did, or 3) you go
to a really lousy school that everyone knows is really lousy (and I'm
not going to be flame-bait by offering any suggestions!)  The only other
possible exception is when you apply for jobs in the same local area as
the school that you attended - then local reputation will carry some
weight.
|
/--------------------------/----------------------:
|      Eric T. Meyer      /   u4400@wvnvm.bitnet  |
|                        / u4400@wvnvm.wvnet.edu  |
|-----------------------/-------------------------|
|  Our life is more than our work, and            |
|  our work is more than our job.                 |
|                                 - Charlie King  |
:-------------------------------------------------/
|
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: tvh@sandman.EBay.Sun.COM (Terry Haynes (Nite Knight))
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Achievement based resumes
Date: 14 Aug 1992 14:53:51 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: tvh@sandman.EBay.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: sandman.ebay.sun.com

>
>
>Amazing.  Someone once said that 10 years ago to get a job in the
>computer field, all you had to know how to do was be able to spell BASIC.
>5 years ago you had to have a BS in computer science.  Now you have to
>have at least one MS and at least one year of experience.  What will be
>the entry-level requirements 10 years from now?  A PhD, one hardware and
>one software patent, and at least 10 years experience?
>

I too have noticed this affecting many situations
I have a fairly good resume including 8 years in various
computer support situations and yet see people keep
search due to a lack of a degree. A vary nice catch-22.

On the other hand many of the posting are "perfered" or "optimum"
requests and the company will hire a lesser canidate who shows
promise.


Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: barr@silver.NNTP (J. Hunter Barr)
Subject: C Programmers needed
Organization: /usr/guests/barr/.organization
Distribution: misc
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 16:02:55 GMT

A consulting and solutions enabler firm that helps organizations to
design, build, and and implement networked information systems has two
positions open for C Programmers.  Candidates must have the following:

    Strong C programming kills (3-6 yrs.)

    Familiarity with Microsoft SQL server

    OS2 a plus

    LU6.2 (for *one* position only)

Additional openings for M204 User Language Programmers with file
systems management, PC Networks, or database management.

Call (617) 661-9790 x573
or email BARR@SILVER.LCS.MIT.EDU
--
                                ______
                                HUNTER
Xref: sparky misc.jobs.misc:5980 talk.politics.misc:40572 soc.culture.usa:6662
From: besp@ellis.uchicago.edu (anna  besprozannaya)
Subject: Re: Achievement based resumes
Reply-To: besp@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 02:05:16 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.123140.7980@cbnewsk.cb.att.com> noraa@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (aaron.l.hoffmeyer) writes:
...
>
>Amazing.  Someone once said that 10 years ago to get a job in the
>computer field, all you had to know how to do was be able to spell BASIC.
>5 years ago you had to have a BS in computer science.  Now you have to
>have at least one MS and at least one year of experience.  What will be
>the entry-level requirements 10 years from now?  A PhD, one hardware and
>one software patent, and at least 10 years experience?
>
Just look at Chemistry. To get a desent / interesting job in chemistry
(not chemical engineering), you need a PhD + 3 years post-Doc research
experience + published papers. Only 10 years ago BS was good enough for most
industry jobs.
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: orville%weyrich@tnet.com (Orville R. Weyrich)
Subject: Re: How to motivate peers in a quality circle?
Reply-To: tnet.com!weyrich!orville
Organization: Weyrich Computer Consulting
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 92 06:19:33 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.224623.18064@igor.tamri.com> viviana@igor.tamri.com (Vivian Aldridge) writes:
>	Greetings,
>
>	Has anyone had experience with motivating a group
>	of peers in a quality circle? If one is a leader,
>	but not a boss how does one get the others to
>	perform? I can't give them money, a 4O1K plan,
>	comp time etc., a new job title, I'm just a peer.	
>	And as a peer, I have no authority.
>
>	... I asked my group
>	what would motivate them. My worse member suggested
>	comp time and money of course--very material needs.

There is a story about B.F. Skinner, a noted psychologist who pioneered
operant conditioning learning theory.

It seems that his grad students decided to test his theories by being
very attentive and giving good body-language feed-back when Dr. Skinner
was on one side of the classroom, and acting distracted and giving 
disinterested body-language when he was on the other side of the classroom.

By the end of the lecture, the good doctor was conducting his lecture from
one side of the classroom, filling one pannel of the board and erasing it
rather than using the entire board space. Then he realized what was going on.

Money is a pretty universal motivator. There are other motivators, as the
above example demonstrates. But they must be taylored to the individual,
and require real effort to apply. And they may be resented if the subject
figures out what you are doing.

orville

--------------------------------------       **********************************
Orville R. Weyrich, Jr.                          Weyrich Computer Consulting
Certified Data Processor                       POB 5782, Scottsdale, AZ 85261
Certified Systems Professional                      Voice: (602) 391-0821
Certified Computer Programmer                Internet: orville%weyrich@tnet.com
--------------------------------------       **********************************
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc,ba.jobs.misc
From: talon@netcom.com (Franklin K. Avenell)
Subject: Field Service Engineer w/Granite in Alameda, CA
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 00:14:47 GMT
Expires: Sun, 13 Sep 92 07:00:00 GMT
Organization: Granite Computer Products, Inc.
Summary: novell windows technician
Followup-To: misc.jobs.misc
Distribution: na
Keywords: novell windows lan

	Granite Computer Products is currently seeking high level
Novell NetWare and Microsoft Windows Field Service Technician.  The
opportunity is available IMMEDIATELY.  The position WILL be filled
within the next 7 days and work will start immediately.

	Granite is a medium sized computer reseller which sells to and
is a servicer of large corporate clients.  It is NOT a retail outlet,
a chain, or a low end product/service organization.  In general, the
company is composed of young, enthusiastic holders of college degrees. 

	We are located in Alameda, California.  Products and service
are offered on a national basis but focused on the Northern California
bay area.

	Successful applicants will:

	1) be able to start immediately following approval of both
	   Granite and a specific customer,
	2) possess a complete understanding of microcomputer hardware
	   including both Intel and Motorola based systems,
	3) have thorough comprehension of networking systems including
	   AppleTalk, Token Ring, and Ethernet in an optimized Novell
	   specific context,
	4) know Microsoft Windows 3.1, commonly associated software,
	   and specific methods of optimizing Windows products in a
	   large Novell LAN/WAN environment,
	5) have compelling interpersonal skills,
	6) have personal transportation.

	I would like to emphasize two items.  The interpersonal skills
and professional conduct are at least as important as strong technical
ability.  Many candidates for past positions have been passed over for
unacceptable performance in this area.  Furthermore, passed offerings
on the internet have brought responses from extremely over qualified
candidates.  More often than not, candidates have been capable of
designing their own computers or operating systems.  This position is
specifically for a technician with strong skills not full time
programmers or people doing advanced research into internetwork packet
routing ROM based software.  These people are great to the point that
they would grow exceedingly bored with this job.

	Note that certifications are not required.  CNE status is
nice, however, we are more interested in technical and interpersonal
skills than test taking ability.

	All resume and cover letters should be sent to myself, Frank
Avenell, at my local e-mail address (frank@granite.com) with the
subject field indicating "Novell Technician Response".  Any follow up
calls may be directed to Mike Gwynn or myself by calling 510/769-2800.

***----------------------------------------------------------------***
Frank Avenell                                Granite Computer Products
Technical Support Engineer                   Alameda, California
frank@granite.com
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc,talk.politics.misc,soc.culture.usa
From: dbrooks@osf.org (David Brooks)
Subject: Re: Why do Americans get so little vacation time?
Followup-To: misc.jobs.misc,talk.politics.misc,soc.culture.usa
Reply-To: dbrooks@osf.org (David Brooks)
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 02:41:17 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.172502.183@europa.lonestar.org> tom@europa.lonestar.org (Tom Kimball) writes:
>In article <BsvrJ5.4Fu@apollo.hp.com> nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes:
>>   More
>>   vacation time translates directly into higher labor costs or less
>>   productivity.

This depends on the fallacy, perpetuated by every project-lead training
course, of considering a man-month a fungible quantity.

>Also, consider that a certain percentage reduction in working time does not
>necessarily equate to an equivalent reduction in productivity...
>That is because the less
>time you spend at work, the more focused you are on your work during the 
>remaining time.

More succinctly: I can do 12 months' work in 11 months, but I can't do
12 months' work in 12 months.
-- 
David Brooks					dbrooks@osf.org
Open Software Foundation			uunet!osf.org!dbrooks
Five more months!  Five more months!
From: jtien@venice.eng.uci.edu (Joe Tien)
Subject: Re: Will the companies look into the resumes?
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Reply-To: jtien@venice.eng.uci.edu (Joe Tien)
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Distribution: na
Date: 18 Aug 92 03:04:37 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.221012.8618@ccad.uiowa.edu>, vrajanik@ccad.uiowa.edu (Rajanikanth Vemulapalli) writes:
|> hi there,
|> Will the companies really look into all the resumes they receive? These days,
|> many companies are not responding to resumes/applications. Few companies that 
|> are responding say "We will keep your resume in file. We will let you know 
|> if any position comes up".  Do they really mean what they say?
|> Any suggestions/comments welcome.
|> Thanks in advance.
|> 


I was suspicious about that "we'll let you know ..." thing they send you until
I got a call from a company last month who was looking at the resume I turned in
back in February. So I guess they do keep it in a file. A friend of mine also said
that pile is where they look first upon a position opening up. If they don't find
a match, then they advertise the opening. I guess that's one more reason to send
your resume EARLY to companies who are not hiring now.

Just my 2 cents.

Joe Tien
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: rao@acs.ucalgary.ca (Harish Rao)
Subject: chappali
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 92 20:46:57 GMT
Distribution: alt.culture.karnataka
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta

alla swami test madidakke ..hang ugyodu avarige..che che

(yene irli chennag ugadri!)

harisha