HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch)
Subject: Re: How did you find motss (was Re: A Better Year Ahead
Organization: Advanced Decision Systems; a div of Booz, Allen & Hamilton
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 00:34:03 GMT

rhiann@carson.u.washington.edu (Sandy --not Sandra) wrote: 
->I found soc.motss by reading a.p.h for a couple of weeks, and reading a flame
->from someone about how soc.motss was annoyed by the cross-posts.  I checked
->out soc,motss almost immediately.

i found net.motss (uh-oh!) because i copied a friend's dot-files ...
he had all these aliases, and one of them was "gay" :-

	alias gay readnews net.motss

this was not long after the newsgroup was created.

--
# henry mensch / booz, allen & hamilton, inc.  / <henry@ads.com>
# "fight the real enemy."  -- sinead o'connor, and many others.
#     for information on the league for programming freedom, 
#                     write to lpf@uunet.uu.net
From: smithw@col.hp.com (Walter Smith)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Private antidiscrimination policies in CO (was Re: Attention...)
Date: 31 Dec 1992 18:50:42 GMT
Organization: Colorado Springs IT Center
NNTP-Posting-Host: fajita19.cs.itc.hp.com

rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams) writes:
> >And WHY would a company fire a good 
> >employee *just* because he is gay?  
> 
> Oy!  Silly Walter -- what do you think this fuss is all about,
> fergawdsakes?

Rod,

I think it was you that mentioned some cases at HP, and some 
cases at a hospital.  I asked if you could post more details 
on it, since I've never seen it in action.  So you've got 
someone who *wants* to see examples of discrimination in
action, and the best you can do is "Oy!  Silly Walter --"? 

If there's all this fuss, there must be some specifics 
*someone* can post.  it's not like there's no one trying 
to listen to you.  If people don't want to listen, they 
are anti-gay bigots, and if they do want to listen, they are 
stupid jerks for not knowing in the first place.  Can't win..

Walter
From: bcapps@agora.rain.com (Brent Capps)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: long-term relationships...success stories, please...
Date: 26 Dec 92 17:57:40 GMT
Article-I.D.: agora.BzvoK4.537
Organization: Open Communications Forum

>In article <1992Dec17.022140.21531@serval.net.wsu.edu> gerkman@binky.csc.wsu.edu (Joseph M. Gerkman) writes:

>   ...I kinda want to hear some success stories of long-lasting 
>   relationships...

I didn't reply to this at first because I didn't consider 8 years to
be that long-term -- 5 year, 7 year, 10 year relationships are quite 
common within our circle of friends.  We once lived upstairs from a 
couple who had been together 18 years.  I guess I'd consider anything 
over about 15 years to be long term.

It's been my observation that there are four 'crisis periods' in a 
relationship.  The first occurs the morning after when you decide
whether the rumpled person asleep at your side is worth making breakfast 
for.  The second occurs sometime between 1 week and 1 month, when you 
will discover whether a lasting relationship requires a more solid
foundation than your partner's ability to tie a cherry stem into a knot 
with his/her tongue.  Between 3 months and 1.5 years you will learn 
whether leaving the cap off the toothpaste is grounds for divorce.  
Finally, sometime between 7 and 10 years you will resign yourself
to hearing the following question every evening for the rest of your 
life: "I dunno, what do YOU want to do for dinner?"

-- 
Brent Capps                          |        
bcapps@agora.rain.com (gay stuff)    | (B4) h t w- dc g+ k? s-: e++ r-
bcapps@atlastele.com (telecom stuff) |
From: kpm@druhi.ATT.COM (Kevin Malloy (DoD #106))
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Attention Skiers Boycotting Colorado
Date: 29 Dec 92 18:18:53 GMT

in article <1992Dec28.002329.7047@flood.com>, tom@flood.com (Tom Chatt) says:
> 
> I discovered while holiday shopping that many skiing clothes
> and accessories sold in California (and elsewhere, I'd imagine)
> are made in redneck parts of Colorado, like Durango. 

FYI...

Durango, and it's county, La Plata, voted against Amendment #2 by a
7001 8173 vote.  It's not so red-neck as one might think.  The La Plata
county vote surprised me.

Also, please don't take this posting as my condemning the boycott of
Colorado.  If I didn't live here, I'd be screaming for it!  I'm not
about to apologize for Colorado, 53% of the voters did a very hateful
thing on Election Day!

It is unfortunate that a boycott of Colorado is going to hurt the areas
that voted no.  Denver's convention business is going to be hurt, and
the City and County of Denver voted no 40-60%.  (The Denver metro area
barely defeated the amendment though, 49.8-50.2%.)  The ski resorts
such as Winter Park, Steamboat Springs, Keystone, Breckenridge, Copper
Mountain, Aspen, Vail, Crested Butte, Telluride, and Purgatory all no,
by wide margins -- the largest margins were in Pitkin County (Aspen),
San Miguel County (Telluride), Eagle County (Vail, Beaver Creek), and
Summit County (Breckenridge, Copper Mountain, Keystone, Arapahoe
Basin).  But, there are only two ways for out-of-staters to show their
outrage at Colorado for passing Amendment 2 -- a boycott (which has
been keeping Amendment #2 in the news since the election) and by
sending money to organizations fighting Amendment 2.

And some good news:  The City Council of Central City (one of three
"historic gambling towns) recently declared itself a "Hate-Free City",
saying that they won't tolerate any discriminatory behavior in their
town.  Now, with Amendment #2, enforcement may be difficult, but this
is a good symbolic statement by that town.

					    Kevin

Kevin Malloy  kevin.malloy@att.com  		  DoD #106  1991 BMW K75RT
633 E. 11th Ave.      __
Denver, CO  80203     \/   With Liberty and Justice for all, NO EXCEPTIONS
(303) 830-2937							  Un-Do #2
From: d000dlphi@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu (David Speakman)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Poinsettias
Date: 29 Dec 92 05:36:13 GMT
Organization: Ball State University, Muncie, In - Univ. Computing Svc's

At first I thought that this posting didn't belong on MOTSS, then I remembered:
All gay men are florists at heart (interior designers, too!)

;)

In article <BzzM7I.D2I@agora.rain.com>, bcapps@agora.rain.com (Brent Capps) writes:
> What I want to know is, what do other people do with these tacky
> Poinsettias after the holidays are over? 

Treat them at cut flowers. They will ALWAYS die back - all of the leaves will
fall off. Unless you live in a tropical climate or are a seasoned green thumb,
these holoday herbal horrors are imossible to keep alive beyond mid-January.

Throw them out (or compost them) when you get sick of them.

David                 

P.S. Brent, I think it is sweet that your husband wanted to brighten up your
home for the holidays.
From: owen@autodesk.com (D. Owen Rowley)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: A Better Year Ahead
Date: 23 Dec 92 21:58:42 GMT

In article <BzpyKt.2AG@queernet.org>, rogerk@QueerNet.ORG (Roger B.A. Klorese) writes:
> In article <18205@autodesk.COM>, owen@autodesk.com (D. Owen Rowley) writes:
> |> Individuals who will not engage individuals as individuals, and
> |> persistently harrass soc.motss as impersonal *others* are not debating
> |> or disscussing anything, they are molesting us, and the only way
> |> to deal with such people is to * just say NO*
 
> Whither thy vaunted ideals of free speech now, Rowley?  "Just say *NO*" on an
> individual basis, of course. But on an enforced policy basis?  A load of hooey.

freedom of speech, like other constitutionally derived freedoms
do not extend to the practice of force or fraud.

This not withstanding, I have no policy authority, and my advice to
*Just say NO* to individuals who use force or fraud to waste our
time and poison our newsgroup with their venomous agenda is freely
given. 
whats yankin yer chain rog :-)

??

LUX ./. owen

--
D. Owen Rowley {uunet,fernwood,sun}!autodesk!owen

  " It will be a cold March 17th that I celebrate the imposition of
	Romes rule, on Pagan Ireland. Erin go ppphhhhhttttttt! "
From: dh0a@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (DONALD L. HARDY)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Ageism
Date: 23 Dec 92 16:52:03 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

>> The fascism of gay male aesthetic. <
>Many gay men have bought into the notion that youth is the sexual pinacle.
>Young men have been idolized for at least decades in american gay male
>culture.

Judging from such things as Greco-Roman statuary, Michelangelo's David,
Shakespeare, and lots of other stuff, this idolization of the young male has
been going on in Western Art LONG time, and not just in gay culture.

D.



-- 

******************************************************************************

Donald L. Hardy                                    Office of Physical Planning
Project Planner                                    Lehigh University
dh0a@lehigh.edu                                    (215) 758 5110
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: What to do for NEW YEAR'S EVE in Los Angeles?
Date: 30 Dec 1992 03:08:49 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <9212300536.AA05515@localhost> 
buckmr@rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire) writes:

> This bounced from the LA-MOTSS mailing list.

[ ... ]

I didn't receive that piece of mail.

<Sniff>  Maybe *I* was what was bounced from the LA-MOTSS 
mailing list.

> What are other people doing for New Year's eve in LA?

Until just now I thought I knew.  Maybe I'll just stay at home
and finish knitting that afghan I started in 1973.

Arne

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams)
Subject: Re: MOW '93: Offical Travel Agents
Keywords: MOW MARCH WASHINGTON DC
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, California
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 19:53:06 GMT

> tdbear@dvorak.amd.com (Thomas D. Barrett) writes:

>If someone has the offical travel agents handy, please post them here.
>Thanks!

I'm not sure how these geographical segments are defined,
but here goes anyway...

"EAST"       Capital Travel      800-800-9009
"CENTRAL"    Reservation Desk    800-662-6988 or 214-522-5106
"WEST"       Confident Travel    800-872-7252
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
rod williams -=- pacific bell -=- san ramon, ca -=- rjwill6@pacbell.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance)
Subject: Re: soc.motss.*
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1992 04:47:04 GMT

Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison) gacks:

>Thaaang squeals:
>>I wrote:

Liar! You belched. No fair editing attributions.

>>>Thaaang purrs, sex dripping from his words:
>>>>Oh, foo. IM has some good twee going on, and I happen to find some of
>>>                      ^^^^^^^^^
>>>A contradiction in terms.
>>
>>George, get your literary devices straight.

>Absolutely never.  I do, however, have them *CORRECT*.

Oh. So I guess it's just your opinions that are wrong then. Sorry,
my mistake.

>>>certainly nothing one could actually call "butch" in that rag.
>>
>>Sorry George, but I'm just so *over* motor oil and pissing contests...
>>Besides, it takes a lot more talent to dance with a guy than it does
>>to piss on him.

>Given what I've seen passing for dancing lately -- *and*
>considering what I know about pissing on people....

>               ***** NOT! *****

Well considering the clubs you go to, it's no wonder you never
see good dancing (It's hard to dance with your Tuffskins/Underoos
around your ankles). But then, also considering...

>>>>Of course, what you were listening to helps to explain why this
>>>post was so ... disjointed.  Remember, "Drivel in, Drivel out!"
>>George! Are you listening to V*n M*rr*s*n again?

>No. J*thr* T*ll, actually.

Good lord.

(The funny part is I only picked V*n M*rr*s*n because I couldn't
remember J*thr* T*ll's name)

>Prince's atonal wailing must have
>blinded you to the sheer poetry in my posting.  ;-)

No, it merely pleasantly distracted me from the annoying buzz
that is your writing style.

John, cranking 'Lovesexy', Prince at his tensest (Hundalasiliah!)

--
thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu * John Dorrance * Disco Diva y Flamenco Chico

      You're like one of those... 'Cabbage Patch' creatures...
From: aberson@enh.nist.gov
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: RE: Posting Styles
Date: 2 Jan 93 21:56:33 GMT
Organization: NIST

In a previous article, anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) wrote:
>Why, the temp on this first
>bright day of the new year has risen all the way to
>6 (that's -14 for you celcians).

True story:  I was about to post about how beautiful the weather was here
when a thunderstorm rolled in and knocked out my power for a couple of
minutes (at least it wasn't a week like last time...)

Anyway, it really is beautiful down here.  The sun is shining right now
and the temperature is 82F (somewhere around 30C, or 303 Kelvins for
the scientists amongst us).  Sure, we have our little weather glitches,
like in August, but they come with the territory.

(Speaking of which, an insurance adjustor just left!  We are so excited.
It only took four months and a couple of days to actually see one.  Maybe
now we can actually do some repairs.)

There is a welcoming warm corner of the country in which a couple
of motssers await the continuation of the slow but steady stream of 
visitors from around the world.  Just give a call...

Sim Aberson   Ft. Lauderdale, FL   aberson@ocean.dnet.nasa.gov
"Home is where your roof landed" - t-shirt seen in Miami
"We Will Rebuild (tm)" - majority community response to Andrew
"We Will Redecorate" - gay community response to Andrew
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: marco@sdf.lonestar.org (Steve Giammarco)
Subject: Re: Rules of Conduct
Organization: sdf public access Unix, Dallas -- 214-436-3281
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 15:20:08 GMT

In article <1993Jan2.192936.22547@csc.ti.com> thrift@ra.csc.ti.com (Phil Thrift) writes:

>Now I have never been in the military, but I have a general idea
>what goes on, regulations or not (I've seen, for example,
>"Boys of Company F" - BTW Rick Donovan's debut).

You _really_ should use smiley faces here, Phil.. Some folx are
sarcasm impaired..

>Now it seems that current regulations say that a male soldier
>can be sent to military prison for allowing a female (even wife)
>to touch his penis with her lips, so things are troublesome for
>heterosexuals already. But what will the eventual rules of conduct
>be that govern homosexual behavior?

Welp. I *was* in the military for 5 years and do not recall an article in
the Uniform Code of Military Justice or any of the Air Force Regulations
that prohibit oral sex between consenting heterosexuals. If I'm not mistaken,
the only thing the military frowns upon (severely) is "fraternization",
i.e., officers/supervisors with enlisted/direct reports.  If you have 
_actual_ evidence to the contrary, please quote by regulation/reference.




-- 
Steve Giammarco/5330 Peterson Lane/Dallas TX 75240
marco@sdf.lonestar.org
loveyameanit.
From: bcapps@agora.rain.com (Brent Capps)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: The Boycott, and Colorado Happenings
Date: 31 Dec 92 17:32:33 GMT
Article-I.D.: agora.C04wqA.Jr9
Organization: Open Communications Forum

kpm@druhi.ATT.COM (Kevin Malloy (DoD #106)) writes:
>The Colorado lesbian and gay community is in chaos.  There has been
>lots of finger pointing, and blameing, mostly at the main organization
>that fought Amendment 2, EPOColorado.  It's pretty ugly to watch all of
>these screamers and persons with axes to grind -- most didn't do
>anything to defeat the amendment except (hopefully) vote.  There have
>been numerous "community meetings" where there has been lots of
>knashing of teeth, ranting, venting, and pushing of individual agendas,
>but people have come away with nothing to do.  There's yet another
>meeting on Jan 10.  I have low expectations for that meeting.  I hope 
>something constructive comes out of it, but I suspect it will be yet 
>another round of "I didn't get to do this" and "Why didn't you do that" 
>bashing of EPOColorado.

*sigh* all throughout the election and its aftermath I kept seeing
history repeat itself; CO2, and the local gay community's reaction
to it, reminds me of what happened in the Oregon gay community as
a response to the OCA's first anti-gay success, Measure 8 (1988).
In short: we were complaisent, we got suprised on election day,
we spent a lot of energy afterwards pointing fingers at each other.

There's just one thought I'd like to leave you with.  Remember,
neither EPOCColorado nor the people in the community opposing 
the boycott nor the people favoring it are to blame for this mess.

The HOMOPHOBES are to blame.  Don't let them off easy by shifting
responsibility to others in the gay community because we couldn't
stop them this time.
-- 
Brent Capps                          |        
bcapps@agora.rain.com (gay stuff)    | 
bcapps@atlastele.com (telecom stuff) |
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Changing standards of female beauty (was Re: Ageism)
Date: 23 Dec 1992 15:59:02 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <mattm-231292130250@mcmelmon.apple.com> 
mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon) writes:
> In article <1992Dec23.194112.15834@spdcc.com>, joe@spdcc.com (Joseph
> Francis) wrote:
>
> > grow fierce moustaches again, and everthing was bush until about the
> > 30's, when everything just went straight downhill until the 60's.

Note that Jojo was talking about standards of male beauty.

> One of my design instructors complained along much the same lines.
> His argument - partly humorous and partly serious - was that 
> sexually frustrated gay fashion editors began "doing everything they
> could to make the adult woman into a thirteen year old boy."

Oh yes those "sexually frustrated gay fashion editors" like 
Carmel Snow and Diana Vreeland.

> If - after the screams of *homophobia* die down - one looks at
> the transformation of 'beauty' through this period, one can see
> certain elements of truth in what he said.  The slender, gangly,
> bobbish, androgynous female beauty icons *do* resemble thirteen-
> year old boys.

We're talking about the '30s through the '60s, right?  So I 
suppose you mean to draw our attention to such "slender, gangly,
bobbish [bobbish?], androgynous female beauty icons" as Jean
Harlow, Joan Crawford, Rita Hayworth, Marilyn Monroe, Sophia 
Loren, Gina Lollabrigida, Carmen, Kim Novak, and Lisa Fonssagrives?

> ...I should point out that this thirteen-year-old-boy
> transformation has not only hurt and alienated older gay men;

How are older gay men hurt by this supposed drive to make
women look like 13 year old boys?

> but it has been a constant source of torment to that much larger
> segment of the population:  women who sexually frustrated 
> gay fashion editors would *not* find in the least bit attractive.

Have you ever read The Beauty Myth?  I think you'd *love* it.

Arne

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jclander@symphony.mitre.org (Julian C. Lander)
Subject: Denny's (was Re: long-term relationships...success stories, please...)
Reply-To: jclander@mitre.org (Julian C. Lander)
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean, Va
Distribution: world 
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 19:18:38 GMT

(I'm trying to start off the new year with a bang.)

In article <C02zLH.9ut@cs.vu.nl>, fjvwing@cs.vu.nl (FJ!!) writes:
|> rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:
|> :	Person 1: What do you want for dinner?
|> :	Person 2: I dunno, what do yOU want for dinner?
|> :	Person 1: (Realizing that this is an infinite loop)
|> :			White Castle Burgers it is!
|> :	That usually prompts Person 2 to think of SOMETHING in
|> :short order... :-)
|> :	Note that this also works in groups of people where N is greater
|> :than 2.  The person suggesting WCB (or something, like Denny's) has
|> :to actually start heading for the car, etc. which makes some of the
|> :other people believe [s]he is actually serious about it --- triggering
|> :a defense mechanism and hopefully a better suggestion... :-)
|> 
|> Then again, what also could happen is that Person N, N => 2, actually
|> likes Denny's, and Person 1 finds him/herself in a dreadfull joint,
|> wondering what went wrong...

I'll defend Denny's, since no one else will.  On a business trip, while
I was dieting seriously (I do that every few years, and the effects last
for about a year, but I digress), I found it tremendously useful
for breakfast.  Denny's was capable of producing a single egg for me,
at a reasonable price, while most places charge an arm and a leg.

I've never eaten lunch or dinner there, nor do I plan to.

Julian C. Lander
jclander@mitre.org



Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: janina@netcom.com (World Institute on Disability)
Subject: Deaf and Gay Conference Scheduled
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 13:27:33 GMT



The following announcement is copied from misc.handicap.  Please forward
it wherever you think it appropriate.
A
From csus.edu!wupost!cs.uiuc.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!olivea!bunker!sheldev.shel.isc-br.com!wtm Wed Dec 23 05:23:18 PST 1992

Index Number: 26881

[Note from Bill McGarry - forwarded from the DEAF-L mailing list]

                      Learn about being Deaf and Gay

"Deaf,Gay and Lesbian Conference," a weeklong series of activities
sponsored by the Deaprtment of Human Development, Department of
Residence Life and the Liberal Arts Support Department at the
National Technical Institute for the Deaf, one of eight colleges at
the Rochester Institute of Technology will be held January 11-16,
1993.

All presentations will be accessible to deaf and hearing audiences.

Philip Rubin, director of the Deaf Gay and Lesbian Center in San
Francisco and Mr. Deaf International Leather, will be a featured
presentor.

Rubin will present, "Deaf and Gay Cultures...Supported or
Oppressed?" from 7 to 9 p.m. Monday January 11 in RIT's College of
Liberal Arts Building 6 Room A205, and again from 7 to 9 p.m. on
Tuesday January 12, in the Robert F. Panara Theatre in the Lyndon
Baines Johnson building at NTID.

"Gay and Lesbian Cultures: Personal Stories" a panel discussion,
will be held from 4 to 5:30 p.m. on Tuesday January 12 in the
Panara Theatre at NTID.

"Why...Gay?" an NTID Deaf Culture Speaker Series presentation, will
be held from 4 to 5 p.m. on Wednesday January 13 in the Mark
Ellingson Hall dormitory first-floor lounge.

"Coming Out: Gay and Lesbian Empowerment" will be presented from 9
to 11 a.m.  on Thursday January 14 in the Skalny Room of RIT's
Kilian J. and Caroline F.  Schmitt Interfaith Center.  Later the
same day in the same room, Philip Rubin will present, "Deaf Gay and
Lesbians: Discrimination, Empowerment, and Political Action" from
noon to 2:00 p.m..

Rubin will also present "Sensitivity in the Workplace" from 2 to 4
p.m. on Friday January 15 in the Lyndon Baines Johnson Building
room 3635.

For more information, contact Sherlea Dony, (716) 475-6200
voice/text telephone, electronic mail SADDHD@RITVAX.RIT.ISC.EDU, or
by mail at Department of Human Development, National Technical
Institute for the Deaf, Rochester Institute of Technology, One Lomb
Memorial Drive, P.O. Box 9887, Rochester, New York 14623.

fakitv


Newsgroups: soc.motss