From: schoinas@fox.cs.wisc.edu (Yannis Schoinas)
Subject: Re: Censorship. (was re: killing of Japanese exchange student)
Organization: U of Wisconsin Madison - Computer Sciences
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 23:12:14 GMT

jjas@acs.nntp-read.bu.edu (Jason Stephenson) writes:

>While living in France last year, I noticed something: Bars are required to
>close by 2:00AM, the same as here in the states.  Most liquor stores, when you
>can find one, close at 5:00PM. 

I was not talking about closing hours but about the ability to buy alcohol 
at whatever time you desire from OPEN stores. A few weeks ago I went to a 
restaraunt that usually closes at around 4 AM. The time was 2:05 AM and 
they told me that I couldn't have a bottle of wine because it was illegal 
to sell alcohol after 2 AM. Another example is food stores where you cannot 
buy beer after 9:00 PM. The situation is pretty frustrating for someone like 
me that prefers to work during the night(a true bat). And it just doesn't 
make sense as a law.

>As far as being able to buy alcohol on Sundays
>or the closing hours of liquor stores, it all depends on where you live.  In
>Lexington, KY, where I grew up, liquor stores have the same hours as bars:
>closed by 2AM, the same as France.  You can buy alcohol in restaurants on 
>Sunday with your meal, but the bars and liquor stores are closed.  Yes, you
>are often requested to show an ID to purchase alcohol and/or enter a bar, but
>I have seen the doorman at the King Charly in Grenoble turn away young people
>because they were not eighteen, the legal drinking age in France.

Well, the kind of places that I would prefer don't have a doorman. I can't 
say I agree with face control policies. As I told you I will make a check
on what the laws and to what extend they are enforced in Europe. 

>	Also, a French police officer may approach you at any time for any
>reason, or for no reason at all, and demand to see you ID.  This is called
>a "controle d'identite".  If you are not carrying a proper piece of identi-
>fication and at least 11 francs, they can haul your butt to jail.
 
So, are you saying that in USA a policeman cannot just stop you in the road 
and make a check on you? And if asks you your name are you allowed to deny
telling him?

>	Furthermore, I would like to point out to Yannis, who "knows American
>history better than most Americans," that Germany and Great Britain are not
>in Scandinavia.  Scandinavia consist of Sweden, Norway, Finland, and Denmark.
>I guess some American know their geography better than some Europeans.

Well, you are a mean bunch of people in this newgroup, aren't you?,:-).
I guess I deserved it since I heavily criticized the land of the "free".
At least I hope that this misunderstanding was intentional and that you 
were able to follow my thought. Just in case, let me make it clear to you.

Fact(i): A German has been told me that he didn't have to show an ID
	 to get into a bar when he was back home.

Fact(ii): When I was in UK I have visited several bars to drink without
	  anyone asking me what my age was.

Inference: Since these countries can be considered the closest neighbours
	   of the scandinavian countries, I wouldn't expect much difference
	   in their attitude towards alcohol.

O.K., as I have found out I made the wrong assumption. I will try to
make a map of Europe as far as their attitude to alcohol and I will
come back on this subject. 

Just for the record, I wouldn't have added Denkmark in the scandinavian 
countries. Certainly, they are close to them in cultural and historic 
terms but their country is not located in the scandinavian peninsula.

>	In all, I must say that I wasn't that impressed with the parts of 
>Europe that I had seen: France, Switzerland, Germany, Italy, Hungary, Czecho-
>slovakia, Spain, and Greece.  The average European is no better educated and
>no better informed than the average American.

Depends on what you mean. Agreed that stupidity is not generic to USA.
Probably, generic to the homo sapiens(but this is stereotype,:-)).

>	I must say that I did appreciate the ready availability of rapid
>transit and the quality of the goat cheese.

If I haven't seen the situation with public transportation in USA, I would
believe that as far as Greece is concerned this is just a sarcastic comment.
Certainly, Greeks don't have that opinion of their public transportation.

>	Oh yeah, I also noticed that European-size (that's what was written
>on the box) condoms don't fit me as well as the ones I buy here.  The ones
>from Spain were far too tight and when completely unrolled just barely covered
>the length of my member.  (Did you know that they have serial numbers?)

He,he... A flame bait, I assume. I will restrain myself from reacting 
this time. It's kind of hot in my office right now. You can call yourself 
lucky,:-).

						 Bye,
						Yannis.
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