HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jimdb@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: BEGINNING BI GROUPS -- INPUT REQUESTED
Date: 28 Aug 92 01:23:59 CDT
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

Hey all, hope all is well in your corner of queerville, mine's
fine (that would be in Lawrence, KS, if you're ever in the 
neighborhood).  Our semester just started this week, and as a result,
our LG(B) organization had our first meeting tonight.  As usual, a
great deal of lip service was paid to Bisexual concerns and
activities, but our name still isn't in the name of the group and
those of us who lable ourselves as bi are not understood (at best) and
even hostilly (is that a word?) received.  Soooo..... I am thinking
about starting a bisexual group, preferably one that is primarily
discussion and political action oriented.  Although I'm sure that
there will be those who join only because they are in need of a date
and think that this would be the place (the old "anything that walks,
anytime it walks" routine).  

What I'd like to know from you all is a number of things:
	1. If you've started such a group in your town/campus, what
	have been some of the major pratfalls that we could try to
	avoid -- that is if we are able to avoid them.

	2. what are some of the best places to advertise to try to 
	attract bi folks to such a meeting.  I'm particularly 
	interested in trying to involve as many women as possible
	as GLSOK (gay and lesbian services of kansas, that's the
	university of kansas group) has been experiencing a great 
	deal of dissention between the gay boys and the lesbians.
	
	3. Which leads me to the third and most important point,
	how does one avoid the male-female conflicts in such a group?
	I believe that intersexual contact is essential for the 
	healthy functioning of any group and that both genders have
	a lot to learn from each other -- although I am more 
	inclined to believe that more of the learning end should be
	placed toward the male end of things.

	4. Do you have any other comments, suggestions, or warnings
	for such a group?  

Thanks for your help, I hope a discussion centered around these issues
will be productive and beneficial for everyone on this board, as
discussion is the first step toward normalization and political
progress.

Queerly,
Jim

P.S.  Is it just me or does it seem like G.H.W.Bush has a wire wrapped
around his larynx?

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim Danoff-Burg     (Snow Museum, Univ. of Kansas, Lawrence, KS 66045)
Bitnet: JIMDB@UKANVAX                Internet:jimdb@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
"Myrmecophiles-R-Us"
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: tweaver@nyx.cs.du.edu (T.C.Weaver)
Subject: Re: leather-oriented thoughts about the MOW'93
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 17:01:32 GMT

So Bill Hileman says "Watering down the planks until..."

Maybe I should crosspost this to our companion newsgroup alt.usage.english

Tanaqui
From: fenthe@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Appreciate Me Now and Avoid the Rush!
Date: 25 Aug 92 20:02:09 GMT
Organization: Carnegie Mellon Computer Club

osmith@acorn.co.uk (Owen Smith) writes:
>In article <BtFrAA.9Bx@blkhole.resun.com> sara@blkhole.resun.com
>(Organization: News Addicts) writes:
>
>>Not so; contrary to what appears to be popular US belief, we Brits
>>(the slightly older ones anyway (only *slightly* mark you)) still use
>>Imperial weight measures; and miles for that matter (altho not for
>>measuring weights of course ...).

 [ . . . ]
>Where it doesn't matter, metric
>units are more prevalent (eg. buying things by the metre off a roll eg.
>electrical wire).

 Except on petrol prices; *but*, there's still the main difference in that,
when measuring weights (of people), the UK does them in stone/pounds, and
the US uses the equivalent number of pounds. This makes /no/ sense to me,
at least, and though it's easy enough to convert back into stones, in which
I think, it's still strange to hear someone saying they're '140 pounds', 
and the first impression being one of huge size; when, of course, that's
a perfectly respectable weight.

 -- Fenthe (126 pounds/9 stone/55kgs. ish.)
From: muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu (Muffy Barkocy)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Big numbers
Date: 2 Sep 92 09:46:26
Organization: Natural Language Incorporated
	<1992Sep2.131257.11927@midway.uchicago.edu>
	<BtyK3M.5nv@news.larc.nasa.gov>
NNTP-Posting-Host: remarque.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: kludge@grissom.larc.nasa.gov's message of Wed, 2 Sep 1992 15:52:33 GMT

In article <BtyK3M.5nv@news.larc.nasa.gov> kludge@grissom.larc.nasa.gov ( Scott Dorsey) writes:
>In article <1992Sep2.131257.11927@midway.uchicago.edu> orc@usite-next.uchicago.edu (David Parsons) writes:
>>>No, no, I'm not fickle.  I'm, um, *timesharing my affections. Yeah,
>>that's it, that's what I'm doing.

>Just as long as you don't start thrashing...

Hey, what's wrong with thrashing?  I myself am a confirmed thrasher, and
I have never received any complaints, only compliments.  Plus the guy
who said that they should hook me up to a power grid next time someone
applied ice to me...*grin*.

Muffy
--

Muffy Barkocy | muffy@mica.berkeley.edu | wi.4636@wizvax.methuen.ma.us
~Little round planet/in a big universe/sometimes it looks blessed/
 sometimes it looks cursed/Depends on what you look at, obviously/
 But even more it depends on the way that you see~ - Bruce Cockburn
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu (Albert Lunde)
Subject: Re: Lovely things found in my mailbox
Followup-To: soc.bi
Originator: lunde@casbah.acns.nwu.edu
Reply-To: Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu (Albert Lunde)
Organization: Ministry of Silly Walks
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 05:22:45 GMT

In article <01010066.ccn7te@unicorn.resun.com> chris@unicorn.resun.com writes:
>All of which convinces me that it is time to start voting for the small
>third parties.  Both the Democrats and Republicans seem to have lost
>sight of the fact that this country does not operate on the bases of a
>two party system.  There were political parties before them and there
>will be political parties after they are dead and gone.  
>
>I've heard people say that the third parties have no chance of winning
>the elections so why "throw" away your vote.  Of course, they have no
>chance if no one votes for them because they have no chance.  At the
>very least you will send a message to the two major parties that you
>are not happy with either of them.  At best, well third parties
>candidates have won office recently.  Take a close look at the parties
>available to you, and vote for one that represents what you believe. 
>The lesser of two evils is still evil.

The presidential race is a bad time to try and back a third party, as the
Electorial College system is especially biased against them. Beyond that
laws for getting on the ballot are biased against third parties and
in other races they can destabalize a tight race. 

"The difference between bad and worse is more important than the difference
between good and better."

I don't vote on principles alone but on whatever I think has the most
expectation of getting a favorable result. 

I'm dubious about "protest votes" or "sending a message".  I guess it 
is better than not voting at all. I grew up in a family full of election
judges, and I have never sat out an election.

-- 
 Albert Lunde         | Interfaith  |     *Y*Y*      "A branch on the
 Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu |  Bisexual   |      *Y*        tree of life"
 alunde@nuacvm.bitnet |  Feminist   |.......|.........................
Xref: sparky soc.bi:11810 alt.polyamory:1156
From: zzaascd@meehpa.ee.man.ac.uk (Colin Dente)
Newsgroups: soc.bi,alt.polyamory
Subject: Re: Bi pamphlet - enough already! 8->
Date: 2 Sep 92 13:30:21 GMT
Reply-To: colin@manchester.ac.uk
Followup-To: soc.bi
Organization: Department of Electrical Engineering, University of Manchester

In article <10597@scott.ed.ac.uk>, bethan@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Bethan Davies) writes:
|> In article <1992Sep1.111730.23582@dsg.cs.tcd.ie> cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Ciaran McHale) writes:

|> >1. Some linguists cringe when they see the word "gender" misused. The
|> >correct word is "sex". However, in this case I think it is valid to say
|> >"fuck the linguists (especially the cute ones:-)!" and continue to

|> Do *I* count ....?      <innocent look>

And you complain that Kay is ruining your reputation!  You brazen hussy, you!

How *do* you manage to look soooo innocent, and yet be so, errrr..., well,
un-innocent?


Colin

P.S.  I've got a book on linguistics, *and* Geoff wrote out two ASCII
representations of the IPA for be at the conference, so do I count too?

P.P.S.  I haven't had my beard stroked for over 60 hours now, and I'm starting
to get serious withdrawl symptoms.  <Sniff!>
From: muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu (Muffy Barkocy)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: This Weekend
Date: 1 Sep 92 14:12:43
Organization: Natural Language Incorporated
	<ZEN.92Sep1114133@death.corp.sun.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: remarque.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: zen@death.corp.sun.com's message of 1 Sep 92 11:41:33

In article <ZEN.92Sep1114133@death.corp.sun.com> zen@death.corp.sun.com (d) writes:
>In article <17v3e3INNflg@agate.berkeley.edu> rsr@soda.berkeley.edu (Roy S. Rapoport) writes:
>> Finally got to meet Mike Lloyd...
>> [...]
>> Anyway, it was great meeting him ... *really* nice guy ... pleasure to talk
>> to ... (fun to look at also :).  Also met two friends of his (Hi Muffy! Hi
>> Dan!) ... Mike seems to gather very nice people around him (with me as the
>> possible exception) ... Muffy and Dan were no exception ... both were a
>> pleasure to talk with (not that I got to talk much with Dan ... )

>  I prefer to think that muffy and I collect nice people, but I guess
>it's a two (or three or four or...) way street.

Actually, I primarily collect nice *men*, a group which is sometimes
considered legendary.  They generally don't like men much until I
introduce them to each other, at which point they say "you're right,
there *are* nice men in the world."  *smile*.

Meanwhile, Dan collects nice women, which is great for me...*grin*.  I'm
too shy to talk to them myself.

Then we share...*grin*

Muffy
--

Muffy Barkocy | muffy@mica.berkeley.edu | wi.4636@wizvax.methuen.ma.us
~Little round planet/in a big universe/sometimes it looks blessed/
 sometimes it looks cursed/Depends on what you look at, obviously/
 But even more it depends on the way that you see~ - Bruce Cockburn
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: georgere@microsoft.com (George V. Reilly)
Subject: Dialects
Date: 27 Aug 92 04:31:40 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

pflynn@ccvax.ucd.ie (Peter "Errol" Flynn, Official Muffin-sampler) writes:
) Ditto. It's become habitual now to slip into USA terminology and spelling
) when I write for North American readers (pace Canadians), but anyone brought
) up on British English will likely still use BE constructions as the giveaway.
) One reader has already mailed me with a reprimand for saying "high school" :-)

He means me.  I asked him if he was a closet Yank.  (He also
said "Mom" in the same paragraph.)  I didn't think anyone would
have had much of a problem understanding "senior school" or
"secondary school" (or "Mum" or "Mam").

My policy is the opposite of Peter's (and Ciaran's, with whom I
have also had this discussion recently): I favour the phrases
and speech patterns (and spellings) that I learnt as a child
over the Americanisms that I hear around me all the time and
which constitute the bulk of Usenet postings.  I think it's
more interesting if people are talking and writing in
different, mutually intelligible dialects.

Sure, amn't I just trying to promote a bit of diversity.
________________
George V. Reilly   <GeorgeRe@Microsoft.Com>
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: eleanor@cbnews.cb.att.com (eleanor.j.evans)
Subject: Re: Appreciate Me Now and Avoid the Rush!
Organization: AT&T
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 01:33:16 GMT

In article <1992Aug25.030015.141384@zeus.calpoly.edu> pclary@zeus.calpoly.edu (Ellen Clary) writes:
>
>I made mention to Tanaqui that there are some British phrases that
>sound totally wrong if an American says them.  Such as:  "knackered"
>or "rubbish."  Me thinks "y'all" would be pretty near the top of
>a reverse list.
>

Also "died", as in "I just about _died_ when I heard that"--at
which point all my audience (in the cafeteria of Queen Margaret
Halls, Bellshaugh Rd., Glasgow, with a pervading and repugnant
reek of boiled Brussel's sprouts) just about died laughing, with
comments like "They really say that!" and such.  Kind of like
my reaction to "the wee shop 'round the corner", with which I can
sort of fake a Glasgow (/Glesga/) accent....

Of course, my spellings have always been muddled.  Grey to me is
still a specific shade--like dove-grey--softer than gray, which
is crayon-colored.

Piglet (happy to report that she's still a woman, and curious as
to how the confusion came about in one who is much esteemed, and
so shall remain nameless, if Nebraskaed)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: Bucky.Whaley@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Bucky Whaley)
Subject: Re: Joke
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 18:10:36 GMT

In article <1992Aug23.142538.28114@news.Hawaii.Edu> johnf@uhheph.phys.hawaii.edu (John Flanagan) writes:
>In article <1992Aug23.085419.15065@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> ptd2@po.CWRU.Edu (Palmer T. Davis) writes:
>>
>>In a previous article, orc@usite-next.uchicago.edu (David Parsons) says:
>>>
>>>   Now, "package store", that's a new one....
>>
>>It's a (gratuitous) New Englandism.  
>
>Correction.  It's a Massachusettsism.  I grew up in Vermont, and was
>perplexed as hell the first time I went to Boston and heard the term
>"package store."

Naw, it's a North Carolinaism--except here they're called "ABC
package stores" since everyone knows us Southerners would forget
how to read if not frequently reminded.

Duh.

-Buck 

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
From: idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Bi pamphlet - enough already! 8->
Date: 4 Sep 92 12:36:05 GMT
Organization: Eris's Restaurant

In article <25498@castle.ed.ac.uk> sara@castle.ed.ac.uk (Swamp Thing) writes:
>jclark@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (John Clark) writes:
>>not ot of character. Of course one could blame the language for
>>being poverty stricken in regard to sex, love, and plumbing
>>references.
>I can't agree with that; I mean we have "pipe" and "wrench" and "washer"
>and "s-bend" and "u-bend" and lots lots more ...

Sara, I'm beginning to wonder...  "pipe", of course, is obvious: a French
for "blowjob" (I'm assured) is "faire un(e) [damn those genders and the
missing Larousse!] pipe", and "bagpiping" is an old slang term for
axillary sex; "U-bend" is presumably exemplified by Sebastian Flyte,
whereas, say, Joe Orton would be a definite "non-U-bend";  "wrench" is
perhaps a dominatrix who dresses as an Elizabethan serving-maid; "washer"
no doubt is something to do with urolagnia...

	"Ah! come and see the violins inherent in the cistern!"
	Kay
-- 
6'2", dark short hair, blue eyes, bisexual and horny as ....
Kay Dekker, Dept of Industrial Design, Coventry University, Coventry UK
37 Old Winnings Road, Keresley Village, Coventry   |B0 f t+ g++ k++! s+ e r p!
Phone: +44 203 838668 (work) +44 203 337865 (home) |Deflowerer-of-innocents
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: h431@quads.uchicago.edu (heather e blair)
Subject: Re: Lovely things found in my mailbox
Reply-To: h431@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 18:43:14 GMT

In article <64934@cup.portal.com> Drakon@cup.portal.com (HARRY BENJAMIN GIBSON) writes:
>
>Conservatism means less government interferance in my everyday
>life. It means me keeping more of my money. I can waste it on
>better things than Washington. It means believing in a free
>market and free exchange of ideals. It means Equal rights for
>all, reguardless of race, creed, color, religion, sex, or sexual
>orientation. It means not penalizing folks who play by the rules
>and do so quite well.

I'd call that "libertarianism" rather than "conservatism" (although
libertarians think of themselves as a branch of conservatism.
If I could design a utopia, there'd be two political parties, the
libertarians and the socialists.  They'd agree on human rights issues
and duke it out over economic ones.  

>Ben Gibson (genetic Republican)


-- 

- Heather Blair       h431@midway.uchicago.edu
From: cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Ciaran McHale)
Subject: Re: Big numbers
Organization: DSG, Dept. of Computer Science, Trinity College Dublin
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 10:30:42 GMT

In <18246@acorn.co.uk> osmith@acorn.co.uk (Owen Smith) writes:
>bethan@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Bethan Davies) writes:
>>Y'know, the first thing Kay said to me at Norwich (after the accommodation
>>dubris) was 'The safer sex materials are behind you'.... and he didn't say
>>it to anyone else, either.... <sniff>.
>>
>>I think you lot are tarnishing my reputation....
>
>Hmm. He said it to me. Is there some sort of pattern here? :-)

Perhaps Clive was standing behind all of you at the time. He's _so_
fickle, that Clive is. A bit like David Parsons in that regard.


Ciaran.
-- 
Ciaran McHale                                                             ----
Department of Computer Science, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland.       \bi/
Telephone: +353-1-7021539 FAX: +353-1-772204 email: cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie \/
From: bv426@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Steven A. Kendrick)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: objectification
Date: 25 Aug 92 17:12:08 GMT
Article-I.D.: usenet.1992Aug25.171208.25742
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)


In article #11935,cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Ciaran McHale)
writes:
 
>>>
In <1992Aug24.231235.8496@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>
bv426@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Steven A. Kendrick) writes:
>[...] Couple that with general insecurity and a latent thread of
>misogyny amongst some gay men [...]
<<<
 
>> Would you care to expand on these claims? Just in case 
>> you don't know what I'm on about... the phrasing of the 
>> above suggests that "general insecurity" and "misogyny" 
>> is more common among gay men than heterosexual men (and 
>> probably bisexual men too). Did you really mean to
>> say this? (If so, I'd love to hear you back this up.) 
>> Or did you mean something else entirely?
 
Of course I meant what I'd said, otherwise I wouldn't have said it.
And when I say _some_, I mean that, too.  In general, though,
gay and bi men are much better about womens' issues than most
strayt men.  There are, however, a few really bad apples in this
barrel, which are tolerated by all the rest -- and they threaten
to spoil the bunch.
 
Proof?  I have heard too many "fish" jokes/quips/comments.  There
are many gay establishments where I am not "proofed" (asked for
ID) unless I am with women.  I have seen too many men dump the
"broads" to go party with the "guys" (one weekend, I had to help
a woman who'd had her head put thru a plate glass window, for no
reason than her 'boyfriend' had borrowed her father's car to go
to a gay bar).  I have heard of too many incidents at queer nation
meetings, when the issues of sexism or abortion rights arise,
are met with "that's not MY issue!"
 
The big misunderstanding arises from semantics:  is there truly
ONE way to be gay?  I don't think so; in  my experience I have met
many men, and they were all different.  But, it can't be denied
that there are _some_ who are, for a general disdain/dislike
of women.  Despite the persistent lobbying of lesbians, people
of color, and other disadvantaged groups, there still remains
a very elitist undercurrent of supremacist, white, wealthy men
who want nothing, and have nothing to do with women.  Perhaps
the current leadership of the 'movement' is doing OK with these
issues, but that doesn't mean that there can be any lapse of
vigilance.
 
                 s. kendrick
a proud memeber of the cultural elite.
 ###
From: IO81409@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (Ailsa N.T. Murphy)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Michigan Wom*n's Music Festival
Date: 27 Aug 92 18:03:14 GMT
 <asuccop.714683396@milton> <64628@cup.portal.com>
 <1992Aug26.003605.21732@henson.cc.wwu.edu>
 <1992Aug26.203510.543@csc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Organization: University of Maine System

funny, i'm only rarely harassed these days, and i'm fat, have huge
boobs, and wear a flat-top (have a flat top?).  i got some comments
from the boysies when i wore short-shorts this summer, but other
than that, the random street stuff just isn't part of my life.
maybe men don't feel the urge to say things to fat women with flat-
tops...  i dunno...

this is in no way meant to invalidate any one else's experience.
just so you know.

                                           -ailsa
From: osmith@acorn.co.uk (Owen Smith)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Guardian Norwich article
Date: 4 Sep 92 19:21:45 GMT
Organization: Acorn Computers Ltd, Cambridge, England

I've just read the Guardian's article on Norwich. I thought it was quite a
good article actually, reasonably balanced in outlook. The fairly long
coverage of the transsexuals in women's space argument in the final plenary
was interesting. At first I was amused that it said none of the cross
dressers contributed anything - I contributed something and I'm a cross
dresser. The writer made the assumption that all cross dressers would be a)
dressed and b) spottable. So we have cross-dressing invisibility here. If
you don't cross dress or you're very good at it, people don't realise what
you are :-). Then I got annoyed about the gratuitously long list of things
the cross-dressers were wearing. Surely it was irrelevent to mention
stockings, heels, skirts, wigs, falsies etc. I would have thought the term
cross-dresser was more than sufficient. I then got annoyed about the fact
that the writer said nobody from the transsexualtiy workshop said anything
as requested by the person running the workshop. I said something, and I
stated that I had been at the workshop. But I suppose we all get touchy
about the slightest mis-representation of ourselves and I have to admit that
I didn't say very much and what I did say was not paticularly helpfull.

On the plus side I think it's good that the article covered this issue. I
think the fact that we are tackling what are obviously very tricky and
emotive issues sheds a good light on us.

Just had another amusing thought. The article said there were three cross
dressers in the final plenary. I'm fairly certain there were only two. I
think the writer's third was actually a transsexual (I'd give her name but
I've been warned about quoting names). A case of transsexual invisibility?
Tee-hee, things get more confusing all the time for the poor
man-in-the-street who wants to label everyone.

Owen.

PS. I wonder if people will stop Dave Berry on the streets of Cambridge and
say "Hey look everybody! It's Dr. Pervert!" :-) :-)