HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: preiser@cancer.unm.edu (Doug Preiser)
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
Subject: Re: 1st time lucidity (sort of)
Date: 27 Jan 1993 17:52:15 GMT
Organization: UNM Cancer Center
Reply-To: preiser@cancer.unm.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: cancer.unm.edu

In article <1993Jan27.150953.19006@eagle.lerc.nasa.gov>, tobritt@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov (Randall K. Britton) writes:
>Hello Netters,
>
Plane surfing dream deleted.

>Well, there was a little more to the dream after that but the rest is pretty 
>unremarkable.  I'm not really sure what the dream "means" if anything at all.  
>But believe me, being able to consciously decide to walk through the wall of 
>the airplane and do something as ridiculous as ride an airplane wreck down a 
>runway because I *wanted* to was a very powerful experience for me.  I do 
>have a question however.  Is it common to have lucid dreams even when your 
>not really trying to?  I thought you had to make a real concerted effort to 
>do this.  Any comments?
>
>- Randy
>
>
I've never had lucid dreams when I was trying to.  I'm usually in the middle of
a dream when something tips me off that I'm dreaming.

   Internet: preiser@cancer.unm.edu
   Bitnet:   preiser@unmb
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
From: graeme@drummond.demon.co.uk (Graeme Hillary)
Subject: Re: Flying in dreams
Reply-To: graeme@drummond.demon.co.uk
Distribution: world
X-Mailer: cppnews $Revision: 1.20 $
Organization: not
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 22:53:48 +0000

In article <1993Jan26.051555.25478@cs.wisc.edu> gopher@picard.cs.wisc.edu (Chris Bovitz) writes:

> I get that same experience sometimes, less now that earlier in my life.
> Once I get going, I discover it's great, but in the beginning, I float
> up to about 30' above the ground and I think that I'm too far up, that 
> if I stop flying I'll hurt myself when I hit the ground.  That feeling, 
> too, disappears after a little while and I can do all kinds of maneuvers.
> 

I cherish my flying dreams too, but I can't sometimes can't get over the
feeling of vertigo and that I'm going to hurt myself when I hit the ground.

Funnily enough, the worries disappear when I fly much higher, but I want
to explore low-level ground skimming!

Any hints?

BTW, the feeling of height and realism is incredibly ... *REAL*.

===Graeme



Newsgroups: alt.dreams
From: dlb@fanny.wash.inmet.com (David Barton)
Subject: Re: Dream Culture
Organization: Intermetrics Inc., Washington Division, USA
	<1993Jan26.165755.1@wizard.colorado.edu>
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 16:53:09 GMT

In article <1993Jan26.165755.1@wizard.colorado.edu>
windsphire@wizard.colorado.edu writes:

   In article <1993Jan25.005656.14050@cgrg.ohio-state.edu>,
   demetri@cgrg.ohio-state.edu writes:

   > Someone was asking about the culture in which lucid dreaming was
   > practiced.  I teach Psych 100 and the culture is the Senoi. What
   > I can't remember is the name of the anthropologist who studied
   > them.

   Kilton Stewart, if I remember correctly. I think his material was
   included in a book entitled 'Pygmies and Dream Giants', chapter 9.
   That's all I can remember. Good Luck.

Stewart also has a chapter in Tart's "Altered States of
Consciousness".  This may be more accessible.

					Dave Barton
					dlb@hudson.wash.inmet.com
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
From: gd@evil.demon.co.uk (Geoff Dooley)
Subject: Re: EXPERIMENT PROPOSAL
Distribution: world
X-NewsSoftware: GRn 1.16f (10.17.92) by Mike Schwartz & Michael B. Smith
Organization: Geoff Dooleys' TV Repairs
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 21:17:02 +0000

In article <1993Jan24.152456.12108@gmuvax2.gmu.edu> cgobs@gmuvax2.gmu.edu (Charles Gobs) writes:
> Now that people are interested in dream experiments again, I am
> reposting this.
> 
> Proposal for another dream experiment:
>    Participants:
>    1) Attempt to dream about ELVIS.
>    2) If dreaming about Elvis, leave an object or objects with him.
>    3) Ask the King to show you other objects that people have left him.
>    4) E-mail the "third party"(unchosen as of yet), explaining what happened.
>    5) If you post your success, do NOT post the objects you saw or left!

I had frequent visits from the King last July.

I would be watching the TV or reading my news paper when Elvis would
materialize. He is usually dressed in his Las Vegas outfit, and occasionally
wore a false moustache.

I don't think it was the real King as he used some sexual obscenities 
frequently and threatend to kill me. 

For those who think you may have seen the same entity, there is a pungent 
smell like rancid butter, just before the vision.


Newsgroups: alt.dreams
From: gj156879@alfred.carleton.ca ( gj student 156879)
Subject: Re: Dream Culture
Organization: Carleton University
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 05:39:25 GMT

>Someone was asking about the culture in which lucid dreaming was practiced.
>I teach Psych 100 and the culture is the Senoi. What I can't remember is
>the name of the anthropologist who studied them.  As I recall, children
>were taught to control their dreams.  Daily "dream therapy" took place at
>the breakfast table.  If a child had a frightening dream in which he was
>chased by a bear, for example, the parents would encourage him to have the
>same dream that night and face and conquer the bear.  It was also said that
>this was an incredibly peaceful society that seemed to run smoothly with no
>need for laws or police.
>                              Renee

One of the neatest things about the Senoi is their concept of
defeating your nightmare character, and then asking it for a gift.  I
read that this could come in any form: a poem, a story, a solution to
a problem in waking life, etc.  
 
This wasn't limited to just conquering nightmares.  The Senoi
apparently try to get gifts from various encounters.  (I recall this
from what I read in Patricia Garfield's great book, Creative
Dreaming...)

If you have sex with someone in a dream, the Senoi say go as far as
you can, then afterwards ask for a gift.  The idea has great appeal.
I believe I tried once, a long time ago, to get a story from a dream
character, but when I woke up I forgot the story....  Grrr...

Getting a gift seems like a worthwhile thing to attempt while lucid.
Who knows what your subconscious could provide!

                                                  Nik

Newsgroups: alt.dreams
From: alpinist@eskimo.com (David Butler)
Subject: Re: dreams as unrelated snippets
Organization: =>ESKIMO NORTH (206) 367-3837 SEATTLE, WA.<=
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 19:23:38 GMT

In article <1993Jan16.153239.22654@news.cs.brandeis.edu> pelletier@binah.cc.brandeis.edu writes:

>     I have been reading [ and enjoying :) ] many of the dream sequences 
>posted here, but I am puzzled by something.  The dreams posted flow in a very
>logical order and seem to come to an obvious end point or conclusion.  Most
>of my dreams aren`t like that, they are little pieces of dreams that I begin
>to perceive in the middle of the action and that end without any warning or
>true conclusion.  I will then begin some other dream, just appearing there, 
>and there will be no connection to the previous dream.
>     Is this a normal occurance for other people and the only ones you post
>are the few that have a logical progression?!

Well my dreams almost always are just little snippets that seem totally
unrelated that flow into each other.  Very rarely do I have a dream that
is coherent for any length of time.  But it would usually only be the
coherent dreams that I would post because they are the only ones with a
story line worth posting.  Unless some little snippet happened to be 
particularly weird or interesting.
 

-- 
Dave                                     The alpinist@eskimo.com
No Disclaimer:  construe my ideas to be those of anyone you wish
 - you will merely be wrong.
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
From: dagger@camelot.bradley.edu (David Rybolt)
Subject: Re: Orgasm during dream
Organization: Bradley University
Date: 25 Jan 93 00:16:24 GMT

In <1993Jan24.204511.28527@fuug.fi> an3371@anon.penet.fi writes:

>Is it really possible to have a real orgasm during a dream (together
>with one in the dream)?  And is it possible to wake up during an
>orgasm?  Sometimes I'll be dreaming, but I always wake up before the
>orgasm actually occurs.

I had one during a dream once... But when I woke up it was very
obvious that my real body never had one :-)

I've read somewhere that when women orgasm in a dream... They actually
have one in real life... but when men orgasm in a dream... they don't
actually orgasm... 
I believe it was becuase it takes more energy for a man to orgasm.
--
     ____/~/____________________________________________________
    [      (   Another message from dagger@camelot.bradley.edu  )>
     ~~~~\_\~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
              If yer a honey... Then I'm your chicken nugget.
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
From: miket@hermes.tcs.com (Michael Turner nmscore Assoc.)
Subject: Re: dream genesis
Organization: Teknekron Communications Inc.
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 20:19:45 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.194111.16236@spectrum.xerox.com> eradm@wbst845e.xerox.com writes:
>In article 0@elara.esl.acs.cmu.edu, Ken Zuroski <kz08+@andrew.cmu.edu> () writes:
>>Now, it would be enormously coincidental that I would cry out right at the
>>exact moment in which a sound effect was needed in my wife's dream. But the
>>only other answer is that I cried out first and my wife built all or part
>>of a dream around that stimulus....
>>....
>>What do you think? Is this something that's well-understood?
>>
>>Ken

>This is a common enough phenomenon with most people I've talked to about
>it. It seems that the mind does have a way of propagating time backwards
>in dreams to suit an external stimulus. I recall reading an article about
>this somwhere, but I don't have any sources handy.

Roger Penrose wrote a book, _The Emperor's New Mind_, which is a
general argument that consciousness might never be hosted in a digital
computer.  (Flames to comp.ai.philosophy, please.)  One of his more
interesting arguments was that, for all we know, consciousness depends
on quantum-level phenomena that allow the brain a literally infinite
number of possible states at any given instant.  Note that I say
"literally", not "virtually" or "effectively".  In this view of things,
only when we self-reflectively observe our states of consciousness do they
seem to take on definite states.  (Cf. the paradox of Schroedinger's
Cat.)

If Penrose's idea is right (I think Penrose claims that it's unverifiable
within our current understanding of physics), then much causality might be
limited only to the interface between brain and the outside world.  Since that
interface is uniquely tenuous in dreams, it would not be surprising if we
experienced a lot of amazing after-the-fact coincidences.  Thus, Ken's wife's
dream recollection might have been from one of many possible dreams that
she could have been having, and his crying out provided a kind of stimulus
to precipitate one of them in which this stimulus made sense.

I don't know the theory well enough to say (in fact, I've only skimmed
Penrose's book in bookstores, and much of my account of his theory is
gleaned from book reviews), but I think that these kinds of dream
events might provide some support for Penrose's idea (without actually
being a proof.)
---
Michael Turner
miket@tcs.com
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
Subject: Looking in the mirror in my dream
From: <KMICHEL@MIAMIU.BITNET>
Date: Sunday, 24 Jan 1993 12:55:16 EST
Organization: Miami University - Academic Computer Service

I haven't posted here for a long time, mostly because I can't imagine
anyone being really interested in my dreams!  But this dream was so
interesting that I thought it might be interesting to others who
lucid dream.
I have what I term "electric" dreams, in which I become lucid and experience
a sense of electricity running through me, which pushes me into another
state in which I can fly or move my body just by thought control. In
a recent electric dream (this is only about the tenth one I've had) I
started expeimenting with moving around, once I became aware that this
was another electric dream--it's like I said "Oh, I'm in this state,
I'll see what I can do this time"  I noticed this big mirror on the
wall in my bedroom, and looked into it, excited at the prospect of seeing
what I looked like when I was in this dream state.  But when I tried to
look directly into my eyes in the mirror, they rolled backward into my
head or went "cross-eyed."  I could not directly meet my gaze.  I did
see my hair though--it was standing on end (static electricity!:)
This was the first time I've had such a self-reflective dream--it is
exciting, because it seems that I am gaining more confidence and
trying to experiment more in my lucid dream state, instead of being
afraid of it.  But why couldn't I see myself in the mirror--is this
symbolic or more of a physical fact (I can't look at myself when
I'm dreaming)?

Kathleen
From: nightsng@anarky.tch.org (Nightsong)
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
Subject: Re: Conscious decision in a dream ?
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 22:03:13 PST
Organization: The Canned Ham, San Jose, CA (408) 971-8530

> > 	One observation: When we are in RL, we seem to be very, absolutely
> > sure of our sense of Reality, it never seems necessary to ask any kind of
> > MQ or perform any RT.

ACTUALLY, I have been quite unsure about reality for about half a year or 
a little more now.  I have been going around with a very slight but very 
unshakeable feeling that this is in fact NOT reality.  Usually, I talk to
my brother about this, and he immediately tells me `You ALWAYS have this
feeling!' so I seldom worry when I have it.  However, a couple months 
ago, I, upon having a particularly bothersome dream, woke up and heard
the front door open.  I knew it was my brother, as he had told me 
earlier (before I went to sleep in fact) that he would be leaving the 
house for awhile.  Sure enough, it was him.  Of course, I had that little
unshakeable feeling about reality, and of course, I told him.  I had one
of my typically long conversations on some of our typical topics, but 
woke up in the middle of it, still having this feeling.  Now I am 
utterly confused.

More so than I had been.

-Nightsong

nightsng@anarky.tch.org
From: sbowman@dewey (BOWMAN)
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
Subject: Re:  Dream Music
Date: 26 Jan 93 21:58:09 GMT
Organization: New Mexico State University

I don't know if this happens any one else, but my dreams are often  
accomanied by music, either in the background or in the plot.  Quite  
often, in a dream, I find myself playing some piece of music for the  
guitar that I do not know either how to play or what it is.  They are  
apparently original.  Alas, my musical skills are not such that I am able  
to wake up and learn it, but eventually I hope to get there.  The music  
itself is usually quite complicated and somewhat lilting (for lack of a  
better term).  I like Enya's music very much, but it seems to make me  
think more of strange Celtic festivals and such, rather than dreams.

Just a thought...

Sam Bowman
New Mexico State University
United States
From: jwc2001@andy.bgsu.edu (J Cannon)
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
Subject: Enya (was Re: Dream Music)
Date: 26 Jan 93 23:34:17 GMT
Followup-To: alt.dreams
Organization: Three guys in a computer lab

Enya's music seems to work for me, as well as several other "New Age" genre
artists, especially Liz Story's "Speechless" album, to produce lucid
dreams.  I discovered the technique that worked for me years ago in high
school.  The music acts as something to concentrate on while falling
asleep.  Therefore, IMO, the music should be familiar, soft, and flowing,
not jarring or with abrupt changes in tempo or loudness.  The volume should
be adjusted so that it is too loud to completely ignore but not so loud it
keeps you awake.  

I used to do this in the afternoons, after school or after exercising, so I
would be relaxed.  It doesn't seem to work as well at night.  The effect is
intense dream hallucinations, often lucid, with a strange feeling of still
being awake and aware of events in the real world.  

Milo
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
From: agwing@picasso.ocis.temple.edu (Andrew Wing)
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
Subject: Re: Kava Kava
Date: 25 Jan 93 18:59:33 GMT
Organization: Temple University
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]


	I used to dream to the radio program Starsend, but I found that it
would actually interfere with dreaming because I would recognize a lot of the
music and wake up.  Too much Conrad Schnitzler and Heldon I guess :-)


--
v2002a@vm.temple.edu     (preferred)
v2002a%templevm.bitnet@pucc.princeton.edu
agwing@picasso.ocis.temple.edu    (last resort)

Any disclaimer issued by me is subject to change without notice
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
From: philip@labtam.labtam.oz.au (Philip Stephens)
Subject: Re: 1st time lucidity (sort of)
Organization: Labtam Australia Pty. Ltd., Melbourne, Australia
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 02:41:01 GMT

Randall K. Britton writes:

>Hello Netters,

[Neat lucid dream omitted]

>Is it common to have lucid dreams even when your not really trying to?
>I thought you had to make a real concerted effort to do this.

  It's not the "effort" per se that is required to have a lucid dream, but
the desire to have one.  In your case, you had a desire to remember your
dreams and that obviously was enough to induce a lucid dream at the same
time.
  The reason why a lot of us talk about having to make a concerted effort
to dream lucidly is just that it's not always easy to get into the right
frame of mind in the first place.  Hence the "effort" required.

  Congratulations on your lucid dream!

-- 
| Philip Stephens, Systems Programmer. | %%%%  %     Labtam Australia Pty Ltd |
| Address:  43 Malcolm Road, Braeside, |   % % % %     "Applied Ingenuity"    |
|           Victoria, 3195, AUSTRALIA. |  %  % %  %  We make the fastest RISC |
| Internet: philip@labtam.labtam.oz.au | %%%%% %%%%% X terminals in the world | 
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
From: cgobs@gmuvax2.gmu.edu (Charles Gobs)
Subject: EXPERIMENT PROPOSAL
Keywords: DREAMS
Organization: George Mason University, Fairfax, Virginia, USA 
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 15:24:56 GMT

Now that people are interested in dream experiments again, I am
reposting this.

Proposal for another dream experiment:
   Participants:
   1) Attempt to dream about ELVIS.
   2) If dreaming about Elvis, leave an object or objects with him.
   3) Ask the King to show you other objects that people have left him.
   4) E-mail the "third party"(unchosen as of yet), explaining what happened.
   5) If you post your success, do NOT post the objects you saw or left!

Comments: There are to be no unnecessary restrictions placed on the dream.
  For example, you may dream about Elvis anywhere; Elvis may be fat
  or thin, young or old; he doesn't even have to look like Elvis. He just
  has to SEEM like Elvis in your dream. He can even be a she. There are no
  restrictions on how to meet Elvis; this is YOUR dream.

I figure that it might be easier to dream about Elvis than a particular
dream location.

So, is there any interest out there?  

Anybody want to be the third party? (You need to save reports and look for
objects showing up in different people's dreams. Also, you aren't allowed to
reveal the dream information until the experiment is over.) 


Thank you, thank you very much,

chip gobs

cgobs@gmuvax2.gmu.edu




Newsgroups: alt.dreams
From: dagger@camelot.bradley.edu (David Rybolt)
Subject: Old Hag survey
Organization: Bradley University
Date: 26 Jan 93 17:14:59 GMT

Ok... Now that I know that I'm not the only person to experience Old
Hags... I'd like to take a quick survey for my own benefit...
Maybe I'm the only person to wonder about these questions... Or maybe
you've all answered them before... But I'd really like to know...

1)   Do you usually have the feeling after you are dreaming, after
     awakenening in the morning, or before you fall asleep?

2)   What position is your real body in when you wake up?  Ex.. On
     your back, hands free to move?

3)   Do you hear anything that couldn't be explained as voices or
     normal sounds? ex... The extremely loud sound of silence?

4)   How often do you have the experience?

5)   How young were you when you had the first experience?

6)   And last of all... This question is strange... But...
     DO you ever have the experience when you are outside your home?
     ex.. College?


Thanks for taking the time to fill this out for me...
Feel free to e-mail me or post to this group...
If I get many results... I will be sure to post them here.
And I will also try to reply to every piece of mail perosonally.

dagger@camelot.bradley.edu
From: wfk@cellar.org (William F. Kershner)
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
Subject: Re: problems with lucid dreaming
Date: 27 Jan 93 00:45:33 GMT
Organization: The Cellar BBS and public access system

ucc_sbh@pip.shsu.edu (Steven Barrett Hurd) writes:
 
> I guess now I am trying too hard, because every time I realize that I am
> dreaming and I can do anything I want, I wake up.
> 
> This is always preceded by an intense fear that I am going to wake up 
> before I can accomplish anything.
> 
> Any suggestions?

I've read in this newsgroup and in a book I bought entitled _Lucid_Dreaming_
that spinning your "dream body" could keep you from awakening.  My
experience so far has been that I am not able to spin when I try.  But give
it a try. I'm sure it's different for everyone.  Try spinning, it may work. 
Read the FAQ on the subject of Lucid Dreaming, it was posted a while back. 
It answers a lot of questions and recommends some good reading.


________________________________________
William F. Kershner
wfk%cellar@tredysvr.tredydev.unisys.com
wfk@cellar.org
----------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
From: buzz@wccf.mit.edu (Sheila Gay Buzzee)
Subject: Re: Strange Masturbation Memory Dream
Followup-To: alt.dreams
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: MIT - Whitaker College
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 01:36:00 GMT

In article <43698@sdcc12.ucsd.edu>, cs64wag@sdcc8.ucsd.edu (Jeremy Friesner) writes...
>In article <1993Jan18.194912.2004@fuug.fi> an5938@anon.penet.fi writes:

>>What kind of woman am I that I could have
>>a dream like that?!  And that it could affect me so! 
> 
>I think you answered your own question in the first paragraph,
>there.  :-)

Hey Jeremy, what the hell does that mean?  I've had dreams from the male 
perspective, and I've always been a XX female.

Buzz
From: phuyg@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Mr P V Smith)
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
Subject: Re: time flow
Date: 23 Jan 1993 16:32:37 -0000
Organization: Computing Services, University of Warwick, UK
NNTP-Posting-Host: borage.csv.warwick.ac.uk

In article <1993Jan22.152645.25572@mlb.semi.harris.com> bwm@mongoose.ess.harris.com (Bruce McIntosh) writes:
>Does anyone have observations on how the flow of time in dreams compares to
>real time? It would seem from my own experience that quite a bit can happen
>in a dream that is not very long in realtime. Does lucidity have any impact
>on this? Just curios. Thankyou.
>

  I've heard that dreams only last a couple of minutes, and that the longest
duration of REM (rapid eye movement) sleep was only about 10 minutes
and i've had personal experience of this one moring, when, being particularly
lazy, i stayed in bed till 3pm when i wasn't really tired at all.. i kept
drifting off into sleep to experience a dream that seemed to me to last
at least an hour, and waking up to find only a few minutes had passed.
At first i thought my clock was buggered, but checked it to my watch
and it was fine.. was quite bizarre but then i found the idea of having
an hours experience in 3 minutes quite attractice and drifted off to have
many more dreams till i finally got out of bed to do something in real life ;)

  Paul V. Smith (~Beebop)