HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: WHITLOCK@vaxb.gbus.virginia.edu (Reid E. Whitlock)
Subject: Outdoor Research Products
Organization: Darden Center, University of Virginia
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 00:25:19 GMT

Last December I bought a new pair of gore-tex over mitts and a pair of 
supergaiters, both from O.R.

Their products had (from what I had **read**) a good reputation for quality 
and durability. Boy was I disappointed!

I did a four day bushwack (no trails allowed) race from the cog railroad 
station to the summit of Mt. Washington in December, and gave both of these 
items a thorough breaking in. Though they held up admirably, especially the 
gloves --- for four days --- the amount of fraying, and wear amazed me. On 
the gloves, the seam that joins the waterproofed rubberized palm to the 
heavy-duty cordura/gore-tex backing showed significant visible wear, with 
several places in the seam showing stretched threads. On the supergaiters, 
things were much worse. Their sole is made of cordura (note: it would be 
better if it were made of the same material as the palms of the gloves! That 
would not be too good for glissades but aside from that, it would enhance 
the product), and it simply wore right through. I was in new powder (about 
22 inches) for two days, on solid ice for 1/2 day, and packed snow for one 
day. One of these days was on snoe shoes with snow-shoe crampons. I did not 
use foot fangs.

Should these have worn out so quickly under these conditions. Am I the 
defective one, or is it the product, or do I need to accept this as a "
normal" wear rate ? What if I walk in to Annapurna again (as I did in 1985)? 
WIll I need five pairs? Can they be coated? Is there a better product out 
there for walking IN snow, ON ice and laced into my Tubbs snoeshoes?

Thanks for your replies

Reid

whitlockr@vaxb.gbus.virginia.edu
From: ses@hpfcdc.fc.hp.com (Steve Speer)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 21:49:19 GMT
Subject: Re: Origins of "slickrock" (was: (random thoughts on) naturally fractal)
Organization: HP Fort Collins, Co.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry

>sheart@toz.buffalo.ny.us (Saltheart Foamfollowe) /  8:53 am  Mar 19, 1992 /
>pab@lucid.com (Peter Benson) writes:
>
>> From what I understand the term "slickrock" came from pioneers in wagons
>> that had metal treaded wheels.  With metal wheels or shod horses slickrock
>> really is slick.  With snow or ice slickrock is downright scary no matter
>> what your transportation mode.
> 
>Sandstone is also called slickrock because when you are walking on it, 
>particularly on a sloped piece, the piece that you are standing on can 
>suddenly shave off in a thin layer, leaving you with no traction.  Several 
>people are killed each year because they don't realize this, go walking 
>where they don't belong, and fall to their deaths.
> 
>It's not something to take chances with...

Not that I want to remove any of the smoke and mirrors (fear and loathing?)
associated with "the all powerful environment" but you are talking about a
differnt kind of sandstone (there are MANY).  The Entrada and Navajo sandstones
that make "slickrock" are quite hard and stable.  If you haven't seen it
(southern Utah) it is like rust/buff colored concrete, but harder.   The actual
term "slickrock" was coined in 1830 by miners who had to lead steel shod mules
across the (very hard) rock which made the mules susceptible to some nasty
falls.  I can't imagine a wagon trying to go across any significant expanse
of slickrock.

	-Steve
From: ajs@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Alan Silverstein)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Waterproofing Leather Boots
Date: 14 Apr 92 20:47:02 GMT
Article-I.D.: hpfcso.122440100
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA

> ..."Don't use Sno Seal, it rots the stitching.

Hmm...  first time I've heard that.  I buy cheap boots because they work
for me, but I routinely Sno-Seal them.  I have had stitching wear out
(before the soles) on two pairs in 15 years.  I normally coat the
stitching with silicone cement before wearing the boots the first time
(so there's no grit in it), and before Sno-Sealing.
From: trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Backpacking Entertainment
Date: 17 Apr 92 19:25:27 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department

In article <9437@vice.ICO.TEK.COM> hall@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Hal Lillywhite) writes:
>In article <kuu0h6INNq7p@spim.mips.com> jimiii@mips.com (Jim Warford) writes:
>
>> Speaking of fowl, anybody up for a thanksgiving backpack trip where you
>>get a live turkey and lead it in on a leash and then have it for dinner?
>> You could even make a little turkey backpack and fill it with the
>>ingredients for stuffing.
>
>Better make it a short hike.  Your average domestic turkey is hardly
>in shape to walk more than a quarter of a mile, even without a
>backpack.

Better also get 'em a Marmot gortex face mask.  Otherwise when it rains
they might drown while looking up to see where the water is coming from.

-- 

-Wayne Trzyna
 trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: curt@med.umich.edu (Curt Hamilton)
Subject: North Country Trail
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 92 12:56:01 EDT
Organization: ITN

This summer I plan to spend some time (6-8 weeks) on the North Country Trail
in Michigan's Lower Peninsula. I am very excited, but could get even more
excited if I heard from some fellow backpackers about their experiances on the
NCT. I'm interested in not only Michigan, but the whole trail, which runs from
Lake Champlain in New York to Lake Sakakew (the dammed Missouri River) in 
North Dakota. 
My plan is to walk through the Manistee National Forest then do some volunteer
trail work along the Manistee River for a few (3-4) weeks.
So, If any of you have good stories or information, I'd like to hear it.
Thanks
Curt.Hamilton@med.umich.edu
From: jimiii@mips.com (Jim Warford)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Backpacking Entertainment
Date: 17 Apr 92 16:51:50 GMT
Organization: MIPS Computer Systems, Sunnyvale, California
NNTP-Posting-Host: electron.mips.com

In article <42893@teda.Teradyne.COM> mstone@teda.Teradyne.COM (Michelle Stone) writes:
>One of the things that I like to do (even though it is not a game) is 
>to make a soup or stew from stuff everybody brings.  Every person
>contributes something to make it.  It usually turns out better than
>expected.  If it turns out great, use it as a lesson in teamwork.  
>If it turns out fowl, use it as a lesson in poor planning.
>
 I would think if it turned out fowl it meant someone brought a
chicken with them.

 Speaking of fowl, anybody up for a thanksgiving backpack trip where you
get a live turkey and lead it in on a leash and then have it for dinner?
 You could even make a little turkey backpack and fill it with the
ingredients for stuffing.

--jimiii
-- 
 Faster horses
 Younger women 
 Older whiskey
 More money!
From: hall@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Hal Lillywhite)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Whistles don't work (Re: If You get Lost)
Date: 17 Apr 92 13:59:02 GMT
Organization: Tektronix Inc., Beaverton, Or.

In article <1992Apr16.231846.17570@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov> alan@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov (Alan S. Mazer) writes:

>I actually tried using my whistle a couple times to signal to people with me
>and found out (much to my surprise) that although my ears were ringing
>afterward, they, 15 minutes away, never heard me.  I repeated this several
>times.  This calls into serious question the value of having a whistle in
>my opinion.  I can't imagine a mirror being of much use there either, given
>the terrain, although I could perhaps have used one with aircraft.

The value of the whistle is not its range but its relative
reliability compared to the human voice.  It doesn't get hoarse and
is easier to use when you are really tired.  When I'm fresh I
suspect my voice carries farther than my whistle.  However if I've
been yelling for hours that does not hold.  

(I will bring up one other problem with most whistles.  There is a 
bird whose name I don't know but which has a call very much like a 
police whistle.  They live on Mt. Hood among other places.  On one 
search we could only use our whistles during the night because during 
the day these birds kept answering.)

The usefullness of a mirror depends on:

1.  Your ability to aim it properly

2.  The openness of the terrain.

3.  Sunlight

Mirrors can be very useful but unless properly aimed they are
useless.  There is no sense carrying one (except for things like
cosmetic uses) unless you learn to aim them.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,rec.climbing
From: klee@decwrl.dec.com (Ken Lee)
Subject: Re: yosemite tips wanted
Reply-To: klee@wsl.dec.com
Organization: DEC Western Software Laboratory
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 92 19:53:09 GMT

|> I don't know if this was an April fools or not, but I just saw
|> a petition trying to keep the Kurry Company from building a tram
|> to the top of El.Cap!!!!
|> 
|> Tell me it's not true...Please!

What year was this in?  They might have pulled this off 50 years ago, but
such a proposal would have zero chance today.

-- 
Ken Lee
DEC Western Software Laboratory, Palo Alto, Calif.
Internet: klee@wsl.dec.com
uucp: uunet!decwrl!klee
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: ddj@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Doug Josephson)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Re: Outdoor Research Products
Date: 10 Apr 92 15:17:12 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA

> overmitts (from OR) are wearing out badly, stiching is coming out, the seams
> are worn badly

Yes, this is happening to mine as well.  I've had them a little over a year.
The Velcro tabs are fraying around the stitching badly, the Velcro itself is
shot, and the seams are coming loose.  I was wondering if mine were just an
isolated case or not.

Doug Josephson  ddj@fc.hp.com  Fort Collins, CO
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: carnes@ico.isc.com (Steve Carnes)
Subject: Re: hiking boots need resoling
Organization: Interactive Systems Corp., Boulder CO
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 14:33:58 GMT

	aknoll@hprpcd.rose.hp.com (Al Knoll) writes:
>Steve Casimiro (sp??) in Estes Park Colorado if he's still doing work does
>the best in the rockies (IMHO).

Steve Komito.  (303)586-5391
-- 
Steve Carnes       carnes@ico.isc.com        uucp: {ncar,nbires}!ico!carnes
    "I prefer a rude vigor to a polished banality."  -  Utah Philips
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: miles@ms.uky.edu (Stephen D. Grant)
Subject: Re: clip flashlight
Keywords: tent, clip, sierria designs
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 20:46:20 GMT
X-Bytes: 

mich@aci_1.aci.ns.ca writes:
>I'm about to buy a sierra designs clip flashlight, I think.  Does anyone 
>have any reasons why I shouldn't?  Like it leaks or falls apart or is it
>generally a piece of junk?  Any good or bad expierances with this model 
>would be gratefully apreciated. 

I have had one for over 7 years now, and its STILL in excellent shape!
It has seen torrential downpours and has never leaked a drop.
I now also own a Sierra Designs "Stretch Dome", and my brother owns a
"Meteor-Light". All perform great! I prefer Sierra Designs!
You should be quite happy with it if it meets your type of camping needs.
From: chris@engineer.mrg.uswest.com (Chris Fedde)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: tent (?) question
Date: 7 Apr 92 03:45:18 GMT
Organization: USWEST Marketing Resources

In article <1992Apr6.194201.1836@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> mpb@troy.uucp (27331-bunz) writes:
>In article <1992Mar31.183258.1@amherst.edu>, jkwatson@amherst.edu writes:
>> A friend and I are planning to hike a good portion of the AT this summer.  I've
>> been given a copy (1974 edition) of _The New Complete Walker_.  Fletcher
>> suggests quite forcefully that if one is going to be backpacking in the summer,
>> not to use a tent.  I was wondering what people thought about this suggestion,
[...]
>> John Watson			
>> jkwatson@amherst.edu	
>> jkwatson@ksuvxd.kent.edu	
>
[neet disclamer deleted]
>
>Tents have CHANGED since 1974, course so has the rain fly.  Personnally,
>I HATE flying things and ticks.  When you couple that with rabies getting
>out of control in PA, NJ, and NY, the idea of sleeping in the
>open is less appealing as well. 
>
>Anyway, in 74 most tents were canvas, and heavy. [...]

1974 isn't that long ago is it?
I had a Sears Pup tent in 72 that was nylon.  In 78 we used a nylon tarp
on an Outward Bound Course.  When did Moss invent the dome tent anyway?

But to the point...
I've been in rocky mountain spring rain storms that have lasted three days.
High altitude mist and rain for 6 hours each evening, and no time to dry
out durring the day.
I have used everything form canvas army surplus to high-tech
state-of-the-art super-light GoreTex tents.  The basic requirement is to
have enough dry space to change your cloths while being light enough to
carry with you.  Today I have settled on a rain fly (nylon 10x10 tarp) and
a synthetic sleeping bag, poly ground cloth and foam pad.  The trick is
in picking a site to pitch.

	chris
From: kuehn@ncar.ucar.edu (Jeff Kuehn)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Tent purchase advice
Date: 8 Apr 92 22:44:02 GMT
Reply-To: kuehn@ncar.ucar.edu (Jeff Kuehn)
Organization: NCAR / Scientific Computing Division, Boulder CO.

I've been looking for a new tent and I am considering Eureka's Cirrus 3 but
know very little about it other than the marketing hype I've seen.  I'd be
interested in hearing about the Cirrus and other tents.  Give both pros and
cons if you can, and your reasons for purchasing (or not purchasing) a
particular tent.

Here are a usage few criterion:

	mostly three season use, but winter storms are possible at odd times
	in colorado's rockies.

	my traveling companion isn't my girlfriend, so we want a little room,
	preferably a three man tent so we have room for gear.

	lightweight. (do i need to explain why?)

Would anyone like to make any suggestions or comments?
(dumb question on the net... ;-)

Email replies to kuehn@ncar.ucar.edu
I'll summarize for the net.

Thanks
--Jeff
###############################################################################
#     #  #####     #    ######       Jeff Kuehn, Scientific Computing Division
##    # #     #   # #   #     #      National Center For Atmospheric Research  
# #   # #        #   #  #     #      P.O. Box 3000 Boulder, Colorado 80307-3000
#  #  # #       #     # ######       PHONE: (303)497-1311    FAX: (303)497-1137
#   # # #       ####### #   #        EMAIL: kuehn@ncar.ucar.edu
#    ## #     # #     # #    #                              /\  /^\
#     #  #####  #     # #     #                         /\/   /__/\ \/\
###############################################################################
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: watson@pioneer.arc.nasa.gov (John S. Watson - FSC)
Subject: Re: Backpacking Camara
Organization: NASA Ames Res. Ctr. Mtn Vw CA 94035
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 22:28:52 GMT

In article <1992Apr10.165559.58341@yuma.acns.colostate.edu> johnc@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (John Cooley) writes:
> You want light, no electronics, fantastic image quality, total flexibility?
> There's only one answer:  A good folding wooden field camera.  Often, the
> camera itself weighs less than 48 ounces.  Of course, the tripod, the film
> holders (this thing is a 4x5, you know), and two or three lenses might add
> a little to your pack.  It has no electronics whatsoever.  Not even a light
> meter.  Which means any good cabinetmaker can repair it.  A good cleaning
> is probably all it takes to fix a doused lens, even if it's been at the 
> bottom of a lake for a week.  A good thing, too, since those fancy German
> lenses cost a bundle.

Seems like someone needs to invent a backpack that will convert
into an 8x10 camera!.  When you see something you want to shoot,
you unload the pack, refold the frame into a tripod ... flip 
the right levers, and presto! 

Me, I want to get a hold of that nice little camera I saw 
in the USGS over at Menlo Park ... and haul it up to the top
Mt. Whitney. :-)

John S. Watson, Civil Servant from Hell          ARPA: watson@ames.arc.nasa.gov
HOMEBREW NAKED!          Ursus cerevisiae  (The Beer Bear)
From: marks@ssdevo.enet.dec.com (Randy Marks)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Backpacking Camara
Date: 13 Apr 92 18:09:23 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Digital Equipment Corp. - Colorado Springs


If you are looking for a VERY light and VERY small 35mm camera for
backpacking, I'd suggest looking into the camera made by Minox.
You obviously trade off some features and functionality, for the
compact design.  For instance,
it does not have interchangeable lenses, but it is clearly the
ultimate in compactness.  Made in Germany.  Very good optics.

What's more, if you are interested in buying one (used).
Reply be E-mail and I'll put you in touch with somebody who owns one.
I think he's wants around $100 for camera and flash.
	Randy Marks
(UUCP)	                {decvax,ucbvax,allegra}!decwrl!ssdevo.enet!marks
(INTERNET)              marks@ssdevo.enet.dec.com
(domain-based INTERNET) marks%ssdevo.enet@decwrl.dec.com
..........................................................................
	"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe
	while the legislature is in session."
..........................................................................
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: s5udtg@fnma.COM (Doug Griffiths)
Subject: Sierra Designs
Reply-To: s5udtg@fnma.COM
Organization: Fannie Mae
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 16:32:04 GMT


Anyone have any experience with Sierra designs clothing?  I'm looking into 3-season
backpacking gear, and a mail-order house has some good prices on Sierra Design wear...


thanks,

Doug G
-----------------------------------------------------
| Doug Griffiths      |INTERNET:                    |
| Sr Technical Analyst| s5udtg@fnma.com             |
| UNIX Support Group  |USENET:                      |
| Fannie Mae	      | uunet!almserv!s5udtg        |
| Washington, DC      |                             |
-----------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: clip flashlight
From: gcall@phx.mcd.mot.com (Glen Call)
Date: 13 Apr 92 22:32:08 GMT
Organization: Motorola Computer Group, Tempe, Az.

In article <1449600005@igc.org> ecologycntr@igc.org (Ecology Center Fund) writes:
>
>I have a Clip Flashlight and i like it a lot.  It IS small: two people much
>bigger than 160 lbs each using the tent better be GOOD friends.  And there
>isn't much room to sit up, unless you're real short: not a good tent for 
>a five day rainstorm.
>
>But I like mine.  It vents well, which allows you to stay pretty dry.  Unless
>your tentmate inexplicably sleeps with his head at the foot end, which happened
>once in my tent, condensation is not a problem.  It sheds rain nicely.  And
>though it is not freestanding, this means your unstaked tent will never blow 
>away in the wind. :)
>chris

I have a Sleeve Flashlight (tent).  Does this differ from the Clip Flashlight,
and if so, how?

PS: I like mine, but the staking does get bothersome when the only places free
    of cactus are bare rock :-).

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Glen Call, Firmware Development engineer
Motorola Technical Systems Division,  2900 S Diablo Wy, Tempe, AZ   85282
Voice:  602-438-3438                      UUCP: ...!{asuvax,uunet}!mcdphx!gcall
Domain: gcall@phx.mcd.mot.com             CAUSE: Preserve the 2nd amendment
DISCLAIMER: I don't speak for Motorola.  Everything herein, heretofore, and
hereafter is purely my opinion.
From: jdeifik@isi.edu (Jeff Deifik)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Invite to a weekend hike
Date: 7 Apr 92 18:30:14 GMT
Reply-To: jdeifik@isi.edu (Jeff Deifik)
Distribution: ca
Organization: Information Sciences Institute, Univ. of So. California

I am doing a Sierra Club weekend carcamp in Joshua Tree National Monument
and I thought I would invite rec.backcountry readers (and others) to come
along. This is an I-rated event, which means navigational skills are needed
(by the leaders).

This event is not going to be a death march, but the terrain is not all
that level and there is no trail.

20's & 30's Singles -and- Gay & Lesbian Sierrians
APR 18-19, 1992 SAT-SUN
CAREY'S CASTLE & PINTO MOUNTAIN CARCAMP
I: Sat will will visit the Welcome Stranger Mine and Carey's Castle. 8 miles,
1500' gain. We will carcamp Sat night. Sunday morning we will drive to Pinto
Mountain Sun, and hike up 8 miles, 2200' gain. Lugsole Boots required.
No beginners. Send 1 SASE, Day & Evening phone #'s, recent experience, carpool
info, $10 check (refundable at trailhead) made out to "Harwood Lodge" to
leader, Jeff Deifik.

For more information and/or address to mail the SASE (large self addressed
stamped envelope) send e-mail to jdeifik@isi.edu

Sorry, no guns or dogs allowed.

	Jeff (turbo) Deifik

Phone:		(310) 822-1511 x241 work	(818) 347-3428 home
Internet:	jdeifik@isi.edu
CSnet:		jdeifik%isi.edu@relay.cs.net
Bitnet:		jdeifik%isi.edu@cunyvm.cuny.edu
Uucp:	...!{harvard,rutgers,uunet,sun,ucbvax,uiucdcs,talcott}!isi.edu!jdeifik
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: MAUSEN@vm.ucs.UAlberta.CA
Subject: Re: Rails-to-Trails
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 06:23:33 GMT


      There's an article on 'Rails to Trails' in the 'Nautilus'
   magazine I was perusing in the bookstore.  It's a new magazine,
   and..you guessed it..they sell Nautilus equipment!
      I didn't get to read much of the article so I don't know
   how informative it is.

                                                     Margaret
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: vleppert@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Valerie Leppert)
Subject: Re: mid-May Backpacking to Hetch Hetchey in Yosemite
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 01:41:03 GMT

>In article <1992Mar31.162857.7715@pony.Ingres.COM>, pete@Ingres.COM (Pete Eakle) writes:
>> 
>> I am looking to lead a group of Boy Scouts on a backpack trip in mid May. I
>> am thinking about taking them to Hetch Hetchey and hike to Racheria Falls.          
I don't want to sound too grouchy here, but what size group are we looking
at here?  Personally, I think very large groups should limit themselves to
more heavily travelled areas.  With that large a group of people you are
not going to experience the vast quiet wilderness and are more likely to
ruin it for others.  Late night singing and everything else that goes with
a large group is tolerable in car camping areas and near trailheads but
becomes very annoying further out.

As I recall, that general area of the park has some very well travelled
areas but as soon as you get out about ten miles from any trailhead, things
quiet down.  

Kibbie Lake is in the same area and I have seen Boy Scout Troops there.  It
is a very pretty area and just right for early summer camping as is most of
the Northwest area.  A friend and I were camping there and had the place
all to ourselves for a few days.  As we were leaving for points further out
a troop of about fifteen scouts came hiking out to the Lake (what timing!)
We didn't see a soul for seven days after that. 

Something else to consider is that in early summer the trail may not be
well marked after the winter.  This can be a particular problem if you are
going over bare granite and are relying on ducks.  A few phone calls to the
park service there can help you determine if a ranger has been through
there yet and in what condition the trail is in. Some areas in the generic
Hetch Hetchy area are in the Hoover wilderness so you may have to contact
the forest service (I don't know about the particular area you are going
to.)

Valerie