From: psc@sei.cmu.edu (Peter Capell)
Subject: Re: guts and spirits
Organization: Software Engineering Institute
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 15:35:28 EST

06-Jan-93 13:50	jchristian@desire.wright.edu	Re: Martial arts and the gut
 
> You worry about your belly, but if I were to cut it open with a large
> blade, you would look at me and say not, "Why have you cut my handsome
> belly?" but "Why have you killed my life?"  Then isn't the life more
> important than the belly?  And isn't the spirit more important than the
> life?

>>Let me play devil's advocate for a moment.

>>One of Nietzsche's criticisms of Plato was in the whole body/spirit
>>emphasis. Plato writes that the body is subordinate to the spirit, like a
>>house that is useless unless occupied.  Nietzsche called Plato a "despiser
>>of the body" in an apparent condemnation of the spirit being elevated at the
>>cost of neglecting the body.

What does either of them know?  Who cares what either thinks? Each of us in
individual and must face our own death.  No one can provide insight into it
for anyone else.  One must examine these issues personally, not with
intellectual pursuit (book knowledge).

>>I've read that the mind/body/spirit separation is an artificial one, a
>>separation that we have created for our own convenience, when in actuality
>>all three components are necessary for life.  There can be no life without
>>the spirit, there can be no life without a mind, and there can be no life
>>without a body to give the spirit and mind material substance with which to
>>act.

Not to be harsh, but I've read that Elvis is alive.  I don't believe it
though.  I know what a body is, and I can conjecture that this noise that's
talking to me all the time constitutes a mind, and I really do feel what I
think Chinese call qi (chi)--perhaps it's a soul?  Who except chi-gong masters
and yogis knows anything about these properties?  

But if I accept the yogic version of soul (which I do), the soul is like the
essence of you awareness.  It does not need the body at all.  This is a
crucial distinction to understand.  Hindu scriptures say, "the soul changes
bodies like the body changes clothes..." Of course this is wholly unprovable,
so I won't try to convince you, but depending on your perspective, there is a
very strong need to distinguish between body mind and soul.  Anyway, the
distinction is oftentimes used to allude to an order of precedence.  Certainly
you've heard the expression "...you're thinking with your hormones..."  This
tome, is an allusion to a person whose mental state is being dictated by his
physical sensations.  In the end of course, it is a person whose mind is being
dictated by his mind, the poor 'ol body just feels stuff anyway.  So anyhow,
the whole conundrum is just a way of putting the unfathomable into words.  

I'd never trust an egghead German to tell me anything about a soul anyway.  I
say this with some authority ( .50 percent German here).  What was Nietzche's
(any relation to "toastchees?") practice which gave him such insight into
being?  At least a yogi can tell you "try this for several years and you will
come to know your soul..."  All a philosopher can do is talk and drink
cappuccino.  Who're you going to trust?  Personally, I think Nietzche is a
pompous know-it-all.  No one ever seems to have asked him 1) who the hell are
you?, and 2) how the hell do you know?  Anyway I suspect this wouldn't have
shut him up.

>>It is common for martial artists to aspire to the elevated balance of mind,
>>body, and spirit.  All three components are necessary for us to exist, and
>>to neglect or dismiss any one is to neglect or dismiss that which makes us
>>human.  I, for one, am not willing to give up my humanity to develop a
>>superspirit.  I would prefer an inspired spirit balanced with an appropriate
>>mind and body.

Just a dollup of spirit and two dashes of mind please--go light on the body
thanks.  :-)  (closed captioned for the humor impaired)

>>Again, I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you.  Lots of stuff you've said
>>that I agree with.  But I'm curious to see how you will respond to
>>Nietzsche's criticism of an even older argument.

Why is everyone so hung up on "agreement."  Who cares about anyone's
"agreement."  What I love about the east is ***PRACTICE***.  There is no
equivalent to the eastern practices of yoga or qigong*.  All the west has ever
been able to do is blab.  As though if you say it loud enough, or well enough,
it's true.  Birth is true, life is true, death is true--talk is cheap.  I can
just see it, we're all having our heart attacks and mumbling to ourselves,
"...but Nietzche said it would be different... where's superman?...  I think
therefore I am right? I think therefore I am...  I think therefore I am...
arrrrghghgggghhhhhh, bubble bubble... gasp... retch..."  I mean, so much for
Descartes.  I swear, in general the west believes that it *thinks* itself out
of the mother's womb!  "Hey man, I *thought* I'd be like this."  "See my bald
head, I thought of it during a prebirth moment, just before I *thought* myself
down the birth canal... Now that guy over there, he was thinking about
multiple sclerosis---really rad hunh?..."  

I mean really.  

*pinyin was created by morons-- it's pronounced "CHEE GONG."  All other
representations were created to confuse the masses.

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