HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: raym@runner.asd.sgi.com (Raymond Mascia)
Subject: Re: carbo/Protein requirement
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 20:03:17 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.155453.9496@cs.ucla.edu>, page@ficus.cs.ucla.edu (Thomas Page) writes:
|> The consensus from when this discussion has been had before is that runners need
|> more protein than body builders, but even so, the average American diet |> Tom

I believe you have this reversed. Protein builds bulk.  Carbos for fuel.
Bodybuilders want bulk.

Ray
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: jdods@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Jeff Dods)
Subject: What ever happend to...
Originator: jdods@todah.chem.utoronto.ca
Organization: U. of Toronto 
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 16:06:53 GMT

	At a garage sale a few weeks ago I picked up a book called
	'Go For It!' by Gayle Olinekova. (1982)
	I found it really interesting reading (not that I am planning
	on *training* that way...).
	Anyways, I'm out of touch with the world of elite runners,
	and I hope this isn't too stupid a question, but what is 
	she doing now? Did she ever win anything big after the
	publishing of the above book?

	thanks!
	J.D.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Organization: Rohm and Haas Company
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 08:30:17 EDT
From: <RBPQCC@rohvm1.rohmhaas.com>
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: 10k-half-marathon
 <1992Aug14.092745.19779@nestroy.wu-wien.ac.at>
 <1992Aug14.133401.28594@bmers145.bnr.ca>
 <1992Aug14.164038.10053@gdr.bath.ac.uk>

Still another way...
Plot your race times vs race distance on log-log paper.  If all were
equal effort they will form a (more or less) straight line with a slope
slightly greater than 1.  Now you can extrapolate/interpolate to any
distance you want.  It definitely breaks down past the marathon.I am
fairly linear from 1 mile up to marathon.  It is also good to point
out your "soft" PRs.

chuck
From: stgprao@xing.unocal.com (Richard Ottolini)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Running on cold, rainy days
Date: 19 Aug 92 20:55:12 GMT
Organization: Unocal Corporation
Originator: stgprao@xing

The coldest days- wind chill below zero- men should guard all protrubences,
because the one between the legs can get painfully cold or even frostbitten.
A third glove or equivalent suffices.
From: severn@titan.ksc.nasa.gov (Dave Severn)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Need help with Shin Splints
Date: 21 Aug 92 11:59:05 EST
Organization: NASA, Kennedy Space Center


Hello rec.running,
      I am posting this question for my girlfriend as she is an avid runner.
She is experiencing a great deal of pain after she runs from what she claims
are shinsplints. I have checked your FAQ for her and she say's that she is
already stretching as is advised. She recently bought some heel cups and is
using them, but she says the pain is still extremely intense.
      Her question is this, does anyone know if there is anything else she can
do for her shin splints, i.e. new shoes, orthotics, any thing else? She is
currently running in Nike Air Pegasus. She does not seem to be an
over-suppinator or an over-pronator. Any advice or suggestions can be e-mailed
to me at the below address. Thanks in advance for all your help!

============================================================================
Dave Severn                         McDonnell Douglas Space Systems Company
Severn@Titan.ksc.nasa.gov           Kennedy Space Center, Florida
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The opinions expressed above are mine and NOT those of my employers, since I
have not the slightest idea what my employer's opinions are.
============================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: jac@noaacrd.colorado.edu (Julia Collins)
Subject: Re: Soda Pop
Organization: NOAA Climate Research Division
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 15:14:25 GMT

In article <22925@hacgate.SCG.HAC.COM> dguerrer@lyra.cel.scg.hac.com (Daniel Guerrero) writes:
>I always thought that the body used carbohydrates as its primary source
>of "fuel".  It was only when the body depleted its store of glycogen that
>it started burning fatty acids.  The byproduct of this process is
>lactic acid, which starts to build up in the muscles...hence the 
>pain and discomfort of "hitting the wall".  So, drinking caffeine
>wouldn't necessarily conserve the body's carbohydrate supply.  But
>if caffeine does increase the fatty acids in the body, then it
>would increase the body's endurance since there would be more
>available "alternative" fuel for the body to burn.
> 
The intensity of the exercise determines to a large extent which fuels
will be utilized first.  Carbos aren't necesarily the primary source
of fuel.  High intensity, above the lactate (anaerobic)
threshold exercise will tend to draw on glycogen reserves.  Lactic acid
is a product of carbohydrate metabolism, not a result of carbo depletion.
At easier exercise levels, fats will be used to a greater degree,
and carbohydrate is a lesser source of fuel. 

I believe that caffeine has indeed been shown to increase mobilization of 
fatty acids, allowing the body to utilize fats even at higher exercise 
intensities, and sparing glycogen stores.  However, caffeine has a 
few drawbacks:
	- it's illegal in large quantities
	- the body builds up a tolerance, requiring larger doses
	- it functions as a diuretic, causing dehydration
	- if you're not accustomed to caffeine intake, it can really
	  play havoc with your digestive system (this one I'm intimately
	  familiar with!)

Julia
.................................................................
: e-mail:       jac@noaacrd.colorado.edu			:
:...............................................................:
: Given that true intellectual and emotional compatibility are  :
: at the very least difficult, if not impossible, to come by,   :
: we could always opt for the more temporal gratification of    :
: sheer physical attraction.  That wouldn't make you a shallow 	:
: person...would it? 	 		- Lyle Lovett		:
:...............................................................:
From: navsaria@bass.bu.edu (Dipesh Navsaria)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Stride Angle Guru Offers Dough to sub-2:00 Marathoner
Date: 14 Aug 92 20:10:46 GMT
Reply-To: navsaria@bass.bu.edu (Dipesh Navsaria)
Followup-To: rec.running
Organization: Boston University

In article <1992Aug13.182231.13490@panix.com> paul@panix.com (Paul Gatker) writes:
>In <93568@bu.edu> navsaria@bu-pub.bu.edu (Dipesh Navsaria) writes:
>>he's offering a million bucks if anyone can break 2 hours in the NYC marathon
>>this year.  For times between 2:06 and 2:00, he offers money between $250K
>>and the million.
>
>>He apparently also is willing to teach his secret technique to anyone who
>>wants if they sign a nondisclosure agreement and pay a _$150_ hourly fee.  I
>
> Sounds like a good return on one's investment: $150.00 yields $1,000,000.00
> How can you go wrong????
>
>-- 
>*******************************************************************
> paul@panix.com                            COMPULITE GRAPHICS
>brooklyn, ny, usa                         Design & Consultation
>*********************************************************************




   What if it doesn't work?  He could always claim that you're not of the
correct "body type" or something...and something tells me that this technique
is going to be a lot longer than 1 hour... 8)

                                                Dipesh






..
Xref: sparky rec.running:2309 misc.fitness:6794
From: deeds@oracle (Deanna J. Deeds)
Newsgroups: rec.running,misc.fitness
Subject: Re: 1/4 miles in 46 seconds - what's a decent pace for fat people?
Date: 18 Aug 92 17:46:47 GMT
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

James Douglas Del-Vecchio (n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu) wrote:
: 
: I am aiming for cardivascular improvement, a lower resting
: pulse (currently ~70min), faster times, and possibly a small amount 
: of weight loss, although that is not as important to me right now.

For cardiovascular improvement and lower resting pulse,
everything I've heard points to much longer exercise duration
than 1/4 mile runs.  Like finding a pace you can maintain for 
20 minutes as mentioned in another thread!  I know, it's
not what you wanted to hear, since you implied that you didn't 
even like the mile.  However, I've been reading and listening 
with an ear biased toward fat reduction/maintenance as well 
as fitness maintenance, and losing weight wasn't your main concern.
Though I'm sure that with any regular exercise you're going to
see results.  Good luck! :-)
From: ROCKY@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu (Rocky Essex - University of Florida)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: fact or fallacy???
Date: 14 Aug 92 03:47:40 GMT
Organization: University of Florida, NERDC

In article <23242@oasys.dt.navy.mil>
jwmorris@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Jeff Morris) writes:
 
>In rec.running, raymond@harp.ecn.purdue.edu (Ray Kamin) writes:
>>I find that running on asphalt streets puts much less stress on my knees
>>than concrete streets.  Is this all in my head or can asphalt really
>>be noticeably softer than concrete?
>
>I believe asphalt is softer than concrete.  I also have noticed that
>I become aware of this when my shoes have lost their resiliency and
>my knees have begun to ache.  Time for new shoes?
 
I concur that asphalt is definitely softer than concrete.  But I
believe Jeff Morris pointed out --- sounds like time for new shoes.
Just yesterday I had to run somewhere (necessity not desire) and
had my old running shoes on.  My knees and ankles hurt after about
the first mile.  Fortunately I was running home so I changed to
the new shoes on the journey back --- what a difference.  I'd try
shoes.  Good Luck.
 
 
Rocky Essex                                  o     I can only
University of Florida      ___^o_    __o    <|\    HOPE TO FINISH
Rocky@NERVM.NERDC.UFL.EDU          _ \<_     \     one of these
                                  (_)/(_)    /     Babies!!!!!!
========================================================================
From: kevin_mcentee@taligent.com (Kevin McEntee)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Thigh Pull Treatment?
Date: 13 Aug 92 21:36:32 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Taligent

Folks,

I sustained a minor pull to the top of my right thigh muscle while playing
softball.  Any suggested treatment besides rest?  I have a race coming in about
10 days.

Thanks,
Kevin
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: nadeau@bnr.ca (Rheal Nadeau)
Subject: Re: Running on cold, rainy days
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 20:34:00 GMT

Some good advice given to date:  layering, polypropilene or similar
next to the skin.  Of the natural fabrics, wool is good - it provides
insulation even when wet.

My rule of thumb is that I should feel cool but not cold when I step
outside to run.  (You have to be exposed to the wind for this to work,
of course - you can feel quite comfortable in the sunshine, with the
building shielding you from the wind...)

Clothing isn't everything - check the weather conditions before
leaving; in particular, check the wind strength and direction.  I have
more than once had a miserable run back, because I found out when I
turned around miles from home that the reason I was so warm was because
I'd been running WITH the wind; the runs back tend to be miserable if
not outright dangerous.  This can be compounded by wet clothing, if you
have been sweating, and tiredness.

It's on these runs that I learned the value of one piece of clothing no
one has mentioned yet - I find the LIFA briefs with the wind panel up
front is ESSENTIAL winter running apparel for men!  (Sometimes the
worse part of the run comes after you're back, when the body starts to
thaw out.  OUCH!)

Some precautions help here: run with someone, or let someone know where
you're running and when you should be back; bring change to phone home
for a ride, or to take the bus back; carry extra clothing just in case
(I've often needed to use the extra hat and gloves I'd stuck in my
pocket before leaving) - you can always just carry unneeded clothing,
but you can't wear clothing you didn't bring.  And don't get too
ambitious - it's no fun having to walk back when you're dressed for
running, not walking.

The Rhealist - Rheal Nadeau - nadeau@bnr.ca - BNR doesn't run
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Another FAQ req'
From: john@spss.com (John Przyborowski)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 17:56:59 GMT
Organization: SPSS Inc.

Could someone please email me a copy of the rec.running FAQ?

Thanks in advance!

john@spss.com
From: puckett@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov (Jim Puckett)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: 10k-half-marathon
Date: 13 Aug 92 16:41:02 GMT
Organization: NASA/MSFC

terry@jgaltstl.UUCP (terry linhardt) writes:

<some pretty neat and encourageing stuff deleted>

>BTW, if memory serves me correctly, Noakes (THE LORE OF RUNNING) 
>states that the single best predictor of marathon times is not
>VO2 Max or anything like that, but rather your 10 K time. I believe
>the Noakes book also has some charts for equivalent times at
>various distances.

any examples? for those of us who have already outspent our book
budgets, that is...8-)

just one more mile,

jim p.
-- 
Jim Puckett    NTI    puckett@freedom.msfc.nasa.gov     
Huntsville,AL (205)461-4922  
This life is a test. It is only a test. If it had been a real life, you 
would have been given instructions....
From: jayers@hamline.edu (Judi Ayers)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Running Event Info needed
Date: 20 Aug 92 20:11:31 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Hamline University, St. Paul, MN.

I recently heard about a running event that is held in Michigan
called the Ultimate Runner.  Apparently it is a weekend
event that includes races from 100 meters to the marathon.
Does anyone have information on this?  Or possibly even
participated in this run?  

Sounds fascinating and I would like to learn more about it.

Thanx.

judi ayers
jayers@hamline.edu
Newsgroups: rec.running,misc.fitness
From: hpzg0650@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Hale P Zengingonul)
Subject: Re: 1/4 miles in 46 seconds - what's a decent pace for fat people?
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 02:27:35 GMT

n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio) writes:


>Hi!

>Last night I went running, which is not a regular habit for me, but 
>something I plan to do more of.

>I did a 1/4 mile in 50 sec, walked one lap, did 1/4 mil in 48 sec, 
>walked two laps, then did a 1/4 mile in 46 sec.

>I have no idea if these are good times, but someone at work said 
>that 55 sec is a good time.  I have no point of reference for this
>distance.  I used to run the mile at ~5 min 26 sec in high school, 
>but I can't remember anything about the 1/4 mile at all (I didn't 
>do it often, the mile was my thing).

>What is a good exercise program to get better at this?  I was thinking
>about four 1/4 mile runs, each one spaced by a walking 1/4 mile rest
>would be very reasonable for me, especialy for the next few months.

>I lift weights a few times a week, and I would be running 2-3 times
>/week also.

>Is this a reasonable plan for speedy improvement, or would I have to 
>do more?   I am aiming for cardivascular improvement, a lower resting
>pulse (currently ~70min), faster times, and possibly a small amount 
>of weight loss, although that is not as important to me right now.
>I never _ever_ plan to enter any kind of competition of any kind.  
>This is solely for my own well being.

>I don't like the mile any more.  I would prefer to train faster at a 
>shorter distance repeatedly, with walking rests.

>I am 23 yrs old, 245 lbs, 6'4".   When I was running the mile 7 yrs ago,
>I was the same height and ~155 lbs.  I feel I am in decent shape, but
>I have gotten a little on the heavy side and I want to do some stuff
>for my c/v fitness.

>Jim Del Vecchio


  Are you sure about the distance? The world record for 400 meters is ~40 sec.
1/4 mile is a little over 400m. If I were you I would check the distance
again.
						Pinar

Xref: sparky rec.running:2317 misc.fitness:6821
From: puckett@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov (Jim Puckett)
Newsgroups: rec.running,misc.fitness
Subject: Weight Loss (Was: Decent Pace for Fat People?)
Date: 19 Aug 92 13:36:28 GMT
Organization: NASA/MSFC


James Douglas Del-Vecchio (n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu) wrote:
: 
: I am aiming for cardivascular improvement, a lower resting
: pulse (currently ~70min), faster times, and possibly a small amount 
: of weight loss, although that is not as important to me right now.

all of these goals sound like Long Slow Distance, unpleasant as that may
seem right now! _Especially_ the weight loss one -

..can we talk? 8-)

If you look at the FAQ for this newsgroup, it has a chart for calories/hour
burned in running. There is virtually _no_difference_ in the calories/MILE
between a 7:00 pace and a 10:00 pace! SO the most calories can be burned
running 10 minute miles, since we can run a lot more of 'em! 

With regards to the whole cardiovascular scene - there is some evidence that
that whole thing can be correlated to calories burned in heavy exercise.
Ther is some break in the graph around 2000 calories/week where 
pulse, blood pressure, and a lot of other stuff bet a lot better - and that
is right around 20 mi/week.


just one more mile,
jim p. The 'Non-Sense' Coach! (Hi Jack!)

-- 
Jim Puckett    NTI    puckett@freedom.msfc.nasa.gov     
Huntsville,AL (205)461-4922  
This life is a test. It is only a test. If it had been a real life, you 
would have been given instructions....
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: teshima@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (A. Lani Teshima)
Subject: Re: New York Times Article on Jazz 3000
Organization: University of Hawaii
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 07:35:54 GMT

In article <93571@bu.edu> navsaria@bu-pub.bu.edu (Dipesh Navsaria) writes:
>Gee, today's Times is a treasure trove for running articles.  About five
>minutes after I saw the article on the stride-angle guy, I spotted an article
>on how Consumer Reports' favorable rating of the Saucony Jazz 3000 has helped
>sales tremendously.  It's on page D1 (the Business Day section).
>
>Interesting: Hyde Athletics (who make the shoes) send out press releases 
>announcing how their shoe had been rated the best by Consumer Reports...that's
>a big no-no with them.  I remember how a few years ago some company dared to
>mention how their product was rated in their ads and many Consumer Reports
>readers wrote letters of protest and refused to buy their products.  The
>company backed down realllllll fast...

You're right--Consumer Reports is a very special consumer magazine
that accepts no advertising dollars. It operates solely with money
from subscribers and prides itself on it. There is a section in the
back of its issues that post advertisements from companies who were
rated highly by CR, and are given open jeers by the magazine. I have
heard that they are not above suing companies who refuse to drop their
mention of CR magazine in their ads. This "jeers" section is a regular
appearance in the magazine.

I run in Saucony Jazz 3000 (even since before the article--starting
back in 1981, actually), but am surprised that not all companies are
aware of the CR's very strict no endorsement policy.




--
A. Lani Teshima, UH School of Library & Info Studies   o | /_/_/ "Sea Hare"
A small mind is easily filled with faith.               o|<0_0>--------*
Blessed is a mind too small for doubt.                    \=^-| |____| | 
teshima@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.edu                                 \_}B   \_}B
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: passier@bmerh9a1.BNR.CA (Chris Passier)
Subject: Re: 10k-half-marathon
Reply-To: passier@bmerh9a1.BNR.CA (Chris Passier)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 13:34:01 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.092745.19779@nestroy.wu-wien.ac.at>,
lell@dec2.wu-wien.ac.at (Christoph Lell ) writes:
|>In article <46412@shamash.cdc.com>, gkc@freddie.udev.cdc.com (gordon k
chace x2367) writes:
|>|> |> >|> How do you relate the times of 10k, half marathon and marathon?
|>
|>I believe this only works for 10K times below say about 35 min. If you take
|>a 10K of 40 min. this will work out to a mrathon of 3:07 - 3:10. I
don't believethat this can be done. 
|>

  Actually, from my experience, these estimates are quite accurate. My
  last marathon was a 3:10, during that year I was running 10K races at
  around 39:00.

|>Furthermore, all these times will only be attainable if the TRAINING LEVEL
|>is adjusted properly. This means that you have to train for the marathon and
|>not for the 21K or 25K event.

  You're right there. It's assumed with all of these estimates that one
  has put in the appropriate mileage for the given race.

|>Thats the reason these computations only work for the advanced level.
|>

  Typically one makes these charts by accumulating race data for individuals
  in races of different lengths. So, to get the high-end times, the data had
  to come from non-elite runners.

  Another interesting way to compare race data: in an old Runner's World
  article they had a chart comparing one's race results to people of ap-
  proximately the same weight, and giving a percentile score. For example
  (and I'm just making up the numbers here to give you the idea), let's
  say you're a 175lb male and you've run a 10K of 40:00. You may be in the
  top 10% overall, but you're in the top 2% in your weight group, get it?
  Obviously, there's some kind of correlation between improved fitness and
  weight loss, but not everyone can comfortably get to a weight under 150lbs.

  Incidently, I read once that the Boston Marathon had never been won by
  anyone over 150lbs (De Castella may have changed that though).

=======================================================================
Chris J. Passier        |splish...splash...splish...splash...splish....
passier@x400gate.bnr.ca |squeak....creak....squeak...creak...squeak....
613.763.8909            |slap slap puff..slap slap puff..slap slap puff
BNR, Ottawa, Canada     |.... aaahhhhhhhhhhh!              Just Tri It!
From: pleeper@wtcp.DaytonOH.NCR.COM (Paulette Leeper)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Soda Pop
Date: 14 Aug 92 14:20:59 GMT
Organization: IRP Corporate Data Planning - Dayton, OH

<1992Aug13.140441.19967@cbnews.cb.att.com>
Reply-To: pleeper@wtcp.DaytonOH.NCR.COM (Paulette Leeper)
Followup-To: 
Distribution: na
Organization: IRP Corporate Data Planning - Dayton, OH
Keywords: 

>In article <1992Aug12.183539.12740@ctr.columbia.edu> brown@ccit13.duq.edu
(Jason Brown) writes:

>>Does anyone have any opinions on Soda pop as a drink in General.
>>
I was hoping this thread would come up again.  On any given day,
my fluid intake is mostly watered-down juice, Gatorade (the
lemonade flavor only...and don't give me that "All-Sport" stuff),
or water.  The vending machines here at work sell soda, mostly,
with some juice (for lots of $$).  Sometimes, when I'm thirsty
and craving something sweet, I'll drink a diet soda (Diet Dr. Pepper,
to be exact), but I find the CAFFEINE in soda to be irritating and
DEHYDRATING, so, IMHO, drinking soda with caffeine (regardless of
whether or not it contains sugar or aspartame) defeats the purpose
of quenching thirst.  It's much like drinking beer to quench thirst...
it FEELS good, and TASTES good, but as a mechanism for hydration,
it does the exact opposite.  Just my 2$  :-)


-- 
Paulette Leeper                               paulette.leeper@daytonOH.NCR.COM
NCR Corporate Data Planning & Admin              ...!uunet!ncrcom!wtcp!pleeper
++++++++++++++++513-445-6289   VP 622-6289   FAX 513-445-2468+++++++++++++++++
Newsgroups: rec.running