HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: welty@cabot.balltown.cma.COM (richard welty)
Subject: Re: Saturn Crashworthiness (was: The Amazing Cut Away Saturn)
Organization: New York State Institute for Sebastian Cabot Studies
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 23:07:37 GMT

[we'll see if posting is working here now -- rpw]

In article <PHR.92Dec30214930@napa.telebit.com> phr@telebit.com (Paul Rubin) writes:
...
>But the figures were very widely publicized NHTSA (NTSA?) reports.
>I'm surprised to have not seen a big stink in the media if the
>test results were not fair.

actually, botched Federal government crash tests are almost never
reported on in the media.  quite a few years back, the feds screwed
up their test of the Saab 9000, and published some really frightening
figures; these numbers were then used in _The Car Book_ and Condemmer
Reports to slag the Saab.  the NHTSA eventually agreed to retest the
Saab, and the numbers were much better with the mistakes from the test
corrected.  _The Car Book_ and CR never retracted their slagging of the
car, however.

life is unfair.  so is the media (but it cuts all ways; the media is
under no obligation to make sense to anyone of any political, social
or economic persuasion.)

cheers,
  richard (a flaming moderate)
-- 
richard welty        518-393-7228       welty@cabot.balltown.cma.com
``Nothing good has ever been reported about the full rotation of
  a race car about either its pitch or roll axis''  -- Carroll Smith
From: tmw@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Tom Walley)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 23:01:54 GMT
Subject: Re: LH: Should I or Shouldn't I?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.autos

I'm not an owner, but Click and Clack the Tappet brothers that have the PBS
show 'Car Talk' give this car high praise.

Tom Walley
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: sgupta@pint.ecn.purdue.edu (Sameer Gupta)
Subject: Simple question about automatic transmissions
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date:  7 Jan 93 20:00:51 GMT

Forgive me if this is a really stupid question.  All the cars I have owned have
had a manual transmission, so I am very ignorant about the automatic
transmission.

When you stop a car with a auto. trans. with the gear in Drive position, it
has a tendency to go forward unless the brakes are applied.  When the brakes
are applied, the engine is still trying to transfer power to the wheels, right?
If so, is the car kind of on a half clutch ?  Is it better to put the car in
Neutral when coming to a stop light and then put it in drive when ready to go ?
Can the car be shifted in to drive while it is still rolling at say 40 mph. ?

Thanks a lot,

Sameer Gupta
sgupta@ecn.purdue.edu
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: davis@csrg2.ee.iastate.edu (Jim Davis)
Subject: 1993 Bonneville: current holdback/incentives?
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 01:38:09 GMT


Does anyone know the current dealer holdbacks or incentives
for a 1993 Bonneville?  If I got the car for the "dealer invoice"
how much would they be making?

Thanks!

Jim Davis
davis@iastate.edu

Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: andy@b30.ingr.com (Andrew Brezinski)
Subject: Re: Tricks for cold weather?
Organization: Intergraph
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 19:26:36 GMT

In article <2456@shaman.wv.tek.com> andrew@frip.wv.tek.com writes:
>I've unstuck a door lock by blowing into it.  You have to shove your
>mouth up against the door to get enough pressure.  Yes, this adds
>humidity to the lock internals, but several breaths are usually enough
>to get me in.
>
>  -=- Andrew Klossner  (andrew@frip.wv.tek.com)
>                       (uunet!tektronix!frip.WV.TEK!andrew)

This sounds about as dangerous as one of the opening scenes from "A Christmas
Story," where the narrator's friend gets his tongue stuck to a basketball
pole in the dead of winter.

I don't know if I'd ever admit to blowing anything, either.  :)

Andy Brezinski
Intergraph Corporation
Huntsville, AL 35894-0001
From: lstowell@pyrnova.mis.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Before Buying Japanese.
Date: 9 Jan 93 00:12:53 GMT
Reply-To: lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corporation

In article <1993Jan8.175006.5453@rtsg.mot.com> pacyga@rtsg.mot.com (Jim Pacyga) writes:
>
>You may want to invest some of your time in reading the article that was
>posted to rec.autos named DOES AMERICA SAY YES TO JAPAN? PART I and
>DOES AMERICA SAY YES TO JAPAN? PART II.  It provides an interesting
>insight to the points you have so whimsically dismissed.  If you take
>the time, you can do some quick research of your own that will support the
>points in the paper.  If the posts are gone, they are located at ftp site
>monu6.cc.monash.edu.au in pub/nihongo.
>
>Jim Pacyga
>
>P.S. I do agree that it is too bad people go to racist extremes to when
>discussing this issue.  It is rather a wakeup call to the American public.


    I've read the article.  It was a major waste of time.  You may
    want to leave academia and actually work in a multi-national
    country and actually go over and work in some foreign countries
    as I've done for over 20 years.  Then you might be able to
    dismiss the article as well.  Or just look at the real history
    of trade with the Japanese and other partners....lets just say
    that the article was even more one-sided than a typical campaign
    advert.
From: drparul@goldwing.ksu.ksu.edu (TRANSCEND  G O D)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: to buy ******factory service manual..renault fuego 84"
Date: 5 Jan 1993 20:41:38 -0600
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: goldwing.ksu.ksu.edu


   i am lookiong for buying a factory service manual for
   renault fuego 2.2 lts 1984....or the circuit diagrams...



  shrinath j kotdwala

:wq
From: mzimmers@netcom.com (Michael Zimmers)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Before Buying Foreign (was Re: Before Buying Japanese).
Date: 13 Jan 93 04:02:25 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)

In article <1993Jan13.024653.22772@EE.Stanford.EDU> sahul@loading-zone.Stanford.EDU (Zakir H. Sahul) writes:

>Prejudicies aside, it DOES matter.  The final top label (German/Japanese/American)
>does not matter.  But the US content of the product does matter.  If people in
>this country were employed making the product, then they will be able to...
>
>1) Spend that money buying other products, thereby, creating more jobs.
>     More People with jobs ==> More money being spent in the economy ==>
>     More Computer Systems sold ===> Greater demand for SCO products ===>
>     SCO revenues and profits increase ==> Gary H gets a raise ==>
>     Spends his extra money ===> More People with jobs.
>     
>   Or conversely:
>     Fewer People with jobs ==> Less money being spent in the economy ==> 
>     Fewer Computer Systems sold ===> Much Smaller Demand for SCO products ==>
>     SCO lays off people ==> Gary H out of a job.  ==> Fewer People with jobs.

We've been around this tree several times before.  Once again with feeling:

You are NOT doing a US carmaker a favor by buying an uncompetitive or
inferior good from him simply because he manufactures the car somewhere
that you agree with.  You ARE tossing him a sugar pill that hides the
problem of his uncompetitiveness and reduces his motivation to improve.
If history is an indicator, the carmaker will not respond to this kindness
by using it as an opportunity to clean house -- he'll become dependent
upon it which further weakens him and makes it that much tougher for him
to ultimately improve.

"Buy American" is a crock.  The biggest favor you can do for an American
business is to hold him to the same high standards you hold others to.
Insist that he become world-class or you'll go elsewhere.  There is
absolutely no reason our businesses can't be the best in the game, and 
by accepting less you're hurting him as well as yourself.
-- 
Michael Zimmers                                    |  Home:  408 996 1984
SoftHelp                                           |  Work:  408 996 1965
Software Solutions for Open Systems                |  Data:  408 996 1974
From: aland@informix.com (Colonel Panic)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Car Phones
Date: 13 Jan 93 04:46:11 GMT
Organization: Helen Keller Bondurant's Performance Driving School for the Blind

In article <2426@shaman.wv.tek.com> andrew@frip.wv.tek.com writes:
>	"The reason that ... car phones should be banned in moving
>	vehicles is that that phone conversations ARE more distracting
>	than casual conversations in a car.  People get very mentally
>	involved ..."
>
>It's interesting to note that the same argument was made when radios
>were first introduced into cars.

Yeah, but most of us don't have two-way conversations with our radios,
or hold them under our neck...

--
Alan Denney      aland@informix.com      {pyramid|uunet}!infmx!aland

I'm Pro-Anarchy...   and I Vote!
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: smartin@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (steven.c.martin)
Subject: Cavalier reliability
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 20:24:05 GMT
Keywords: Chevy Cavalier reliability



Does anyone have any comments about the reliability of Chevy
Cavaliers?  My SO is interested in purchasing a new Cavalier
RS with the V6 engine.  If anyone has any good or bad
comments or warnings, please post or send me email.
Thanks.

					Steve

Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: Kuyper@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Ed Kuyper)
Subject: Re: Geo Prizm vs. Honda Civic
Followup-To: rec.autos
Organization: Northwestern University
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 14:19:37 GMT

In article <0fIRziK00UzxE37Ylp@andrew.cmu.edu>, jr4q+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jason
M. Roth) wrote:
> 
> This has been mentioned before, but not strongly enough for my tastes:
> check out Saturn! Among other things, since you're looking at 4-doors,
> I'm assuming size is an issue; Saturns are _much_ bigger on the inside
> than Geos or Civics (actually, almost as big as Accords, Honda's "big"
> car), and in every way wonderful. I'm 6'-1", and was comfy in the back
> behind my dad (6'-4") driving (who had no problems fitting).

I am 6'-5" and I had a aweful time fitting into a Saturn. I couldn't sit in
it without severly contorting my body and even then when I looked straight
ahead I was looking into the celing of the car. I was very enthusiastic
about Saturns but they are just too damn small. Mind you I drive a jeep
which is a wet dream for head room.


 Plus,
> Saturn features many touches not available in this range (even from
> almighty Honda), such as the bags, the paint job, the traction control
> (pretty cheap, although of course requiring auto), etc. And the best
> dealers this side of $30k.
> 
> JMR
> HSK
> 
> '93 SL2, blue-green.
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: Tom Wetzel <twetzel@ucs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Re: Advertising fee and holdback for Probe
Organization: Indiana University
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 15:20:07 GMT

In article <1ho8mvINN2of@agate.berkeley.edu> David S. Shy,
shyguy@ocf.berkeley.edu writes:
>i just have a side question here.... what about those brochures that 
>one gets from car dealers?  are those bought by the dealer or freely
>provided by the parent company.

I'm certain that promotional literature is paid for by the dealers.  I'm
still
smarting from being asked by my local Chev. dealership to pay $30 for
Corvette
brochure.  When I asked for one, the sales jock suggested I order it
through
the parts department.  He added that they were just too expensive to give
out
for casual reading.  I know from my own days in retailing high ticket
items that
we had to pay for the promotional pieces so I wasn't completely offended
by the
salesman's suggestion.  I thought it would be nice if they had one copy
in the
showroom for browsing but, they didn't.

The holdback is a different matter and lowers the true cost of the car to
the
dealer.

Tom
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: buck@granite.ma30.bull.com (Ken Buck)
Subject: Re: Lotus Elan...why did it fail?
Organization: Bull HN Informations Systems Inc.
Date: 11 Jan 93 16:25:41 GMT

In article <4224@eastman.UUCP> golder@titan.ppd.kodak.com (Patrick Golder) writes:
>I'd guess that the biggest reason was price.  $40K was just too much
>money for what you got, considering the competition.  IMHO, they made
>a big mistake making the car front-wheel-drive too.  Then there's the
>lesser but significant factors of not having much of a dealer network,
>not knowing how to market the car or who their market even was, not 
>advertising it much, etc.

i think it's fair to blame a collection of factors, but i think that
price and poor dealer network are the two most significant.  (the great
deals on Elans toward the end were merely in response to the poor sales
record).  a good dealer network is important to a lot of people.
there are Ford, Mazda, Nissan, Chevy, etc. dealers on every street corner,
but finding a Lotus dealer is NOT easy in many places, whether the
reason is to buy one or for getting it serviced...
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: sharen@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com (Sharen A. Rund)
Subject: Re: Get a car heated in winter: How long is appropriate?
Keywords: Heating
Organization: Lockheed Missiles and Space Co.
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 93 20:10:01 GMT

In article <issa.726379739@cwis> issa@cwis.unomaha.edu (Issa El-Hazin) writes:
>sharen@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com (Sharen A. Rund) writes:
>
>>In article <C0G89q.Dox@news.iastate.edu> rdu@iastate.edu (Runqing Du) writes:
>
>>warmed up without overheating and freezing up - also, if you can wait till 
>>11pm to do the job, its a bit better, the coldest part of the evening
>>hasn't come yet, and, if you don't leave the house till late you may want
>>to consider running it again in the morning, especially if the temp gets
>>lowered even more so by the wind chill
>                             ----------
>
>Cars never feel wind chill. Only living things (i.e. people) do.
>or Am I wrong?
>
maybe yes & maybe no - I know a car starts easier if it isn't 
facing into the wind

-- 
________________       __        ________________   "They that can give up
\_________      \     /_ \      /      _________/  essential liberty to 
 \_________      \_____/  \____/      _________/  obtain temporary safety
  \___________________      __________________/  deserve neither liberty 
                     /______\                   nor safety."  
ALL disclaimers apply ....                           --Benjamin Franklin
From: ss@wpi.WPI.EDU (Scott Streeter)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Under dash Radar Detector
Followup-To: rec.autos
Date: 12 Jan 93 20:01:29
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute, Worcester, MA 01609-2280
NNTP-Posting-Host: wpi.wpi.edu
In-reply-to: asbestos@nwu.edu's message of 12 Jan 93 23:36:24 GMT


ss@wpi.WPI.EDU (Scott Streeter) writes:

ss> Can anyone recommend an under the dash style radar detector that
ss> detects all 3 bands?  Thanks.

Just to clarify. What i'm looking for exactly is a model that has the
antenna which fits in the grill, so I can hide the controls under the
dash, and have it all hard wired in my car. Also something that
detects all 3 radar bands. Does a such reputable model exist? Thanks.

--
 Scott Streeter                             Visit the Star Wars Archive at
 ss@wpi.wpi.edu                             wpi.wpi.edu       130.215.24.1
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: urs@server.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Urs Bertschinger)
Subject: Re: Question on Nissan Sentra : Engine Oil
Reply-To: urs@objy.com
Organization: Objectivity, Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 93 00:22:19 GMT

In article <1993Jan11.211041.9581@progress.com>, matth@progress.COM (Matthew J. Harper) writes:
|> RVB@ECL.PSU.EDU (Ramarao V Bandaru) writes:
|> 
|> 
|> 
|> >        I recently bought a '87 Nissan Sentra. I changed the oil about
|> >1500 miles back, but it already has a black color. Could the problem be that
|> >some coolant is leaking into the oil? I don't know much about cars. I would
|> >appreciate it if some netters could give me some clue as to what the problem
|> >might be. ( The coolant level has reduced quite a bit since I last topped it).
|> >Overall the car seems to run OK.
|> 
|> >        Thanks
|> 
|> >Ramu.
|> 
|> 
|> 
|>   The oil is most likely dark simply because it's got 1500 miles worth of 
|> combustion particulates in it.  
|> 
|>   I have an '87 Sentra as well.  When cold the radiotor may appear low.  
|> However, if you fill it up to the top quite a bit will go out the overflow
|> pipe once it gets hot.   Thermal expansion and all that.
|> 
|>   Great car by the way!
|> 
|> -Matth
|> --
|>           Matthew J. Harper ! Progress Software Corp. ! {disclaimer.i}         
|>    God created heaven and earth to grow barley and hops. Now he homebrews !-)  
|> 
|>      Starve a lawyer!  Boycott Sam Adams and Jim Koch's BS legal tactics!

I've mixed engine oil and coolant on several occasions (all but one due to
blown head gaskets).  In one case I was using synthetic oil, and the only way
I could tell was that the oil was very high on the dip stick; only after I
drained the oil pan and looked at the oil closely did I notice that there was
water in the oil.  However, everytime I mixed coolant with conventional motor
oil the resulting mess pretty much had the color and consistency of mayonnaise.

Although I'm not a qualified car mechanic by any stretch of the imagination,
I suspect you'd know it if you had coolant in your oil, so long as you're
using conventional motor oil, because you'd find some pretty interesting stuff
on your dipstick.

-- 
Urs Bertschinger
urs@objy.com

Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: vetter@mtu.edu (STEVEN J. VETTER)
Subject: Re: Braking techniques
Organization: Michigan Technological University
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 15:46:32 GMT

jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost) writes:
>vetter@mtu.edu (STEVEN J. VETTER) writes:
>
>>jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost) writes:
>>>Engine braking helps avoid wheel lockup in slick conditions.
>
>>  So does brake modulation.  You can still lock up the wheels while
>>engine braking,
>
>No, you can't.  The wheels will never turn slower (or faster) than the
>transmission is turning them.  You can skid, but you cannot lock up
>the wheels -- they will continue rotating even while the car skids.


  Okay, I stated it wrong.  You can`t lock up your wheels while engine   
  braking, but you can get them to turn slower than the ground they are
  in contact with, which yields the same results, loss of traction and a
  skid.  


-- 
Steve Vetter     DISCLAIMER-  The opinions expressed here are not those of
vetter@mtu.edu                my employer,  because I don`t have one yet.  If  
                              you wish for these opinions to be your company's,
Damn it's Cold!!!             or not, send e-mail to :  vetter@mtu.edu 
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: vetter@mtu.edu (STEVEN J. VETTER)
Subject: Re: Braking techniques
Organization: Michigan Technological University
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 20:50:48 GMT

jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost) writes:
>vetter@mtu.edu (STEVEN J. VETTER) writes:
>>  My point is, except for the obvious long hills and such, why do it at all?  Engine
>>  braking does not brake as well as the brakes do, it is less controllable, and if
>>  it wears on the clutch even the tiniest bit, why do it?
>
>Engine braking helps avoid wheel lockup in slick conditions.
>
>jim frost
>jimf@centerline.co


  So does brake modulation.  You can still lock up the wheels while engine braking, yet it
  seems to me you would get overall less braking with only two wheels (assuming it isn`t
  AWD) than with all four with the brakes.


-- 
Steve Vetter     DISCLAIMER-  The opinions expressed here are not those of
vetter@mtu.edu                my employer,  because I don`t have one yet.  If  
                              you wish for these opinions to be your company's,
Damn it's Cold!!!             or not, send e-mail to :  vetter@mtu.edu
From: lis@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (Elisabeth Riba)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Under dash Radar Detector
Date: 13 Jan 93 05:04:03 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Brandeis University

ss@wpi.WPI.EDU (Scott Streeter) writes:

>Can anyone recommend an under the dash style radar detector that
>detects all 3 bands?  Thanks.

I have also been thinking about purchasing a radar detector, but I
really don't know that much about them.  Consumer Reports doesn't
review them; can anyone recommend some good magazine articles or
comparative reviews that I might find in the local library?  Thanks.

[If this is in the FAQ, I apologize--I've been reading r.a & r.a.tech
for a week or two and haven't seen it posted.]
-- 
--------------->Elisabeth Anne Riba * lis@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu<---------------
   Do not meddle in the affairs	    |  Usenet is like Tetris for people
   of cats, for they are subtle     |  who still remember how to read.
   and will piss on your computer.  |	  So many newsgroups, so little time...
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: jrp@bohra.cpg.oz.au (John Pitman)
Subject: road toll
Organization: Computer Power Software Group Pty Ltd
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 05:25:49 GMT

hi all,
Well here in the wonderfule State of Victoria (Oz) we have achieved a remarkable
new low in Road Toll (fatalities) of < 400 for 1992. on a rate basis of deaths
per head (d/100000?) we are back to the same rate we had in 1953!!.
Not sure whether it is due to all or any of the following wonderful features of
driving:	random breath testing,
			speed cameras,
			mandatory seat belts,
			heavy duty anti drink-drive ads on tv,
			the depression (our capital is now $2.50),
			red light cameras (anybody on the intersection while lights red
								get their picture taken).

One story said that we paid $A75 mil in driving fines last year!!!
any comments guys?
jp
From: andrew@frip.WV.TEK.COM (Andrew Klossner)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Windchill Re: Get a car heated in winter: How long is appropriate?
Date: 8 Jan 93 20:57:25 GMT
Reply-To: andrew@frip.wv.tek.com
Organization: Tektronix Color Printers, Wilsonville, Oregon

[]

	"winchill factors don't increase much beyond about 40 mph. I
	intend to use this argument if a cop stops me for doing 80 mph
	in the winter on my motorcycle: "Honest officer, I was just
	trying to limit exposure time once I had exceeded maximum wind
	chill speed""

Or perhaps you were trying to use air friction to warm yourself?  I've
seen some motorcycle riders try to emulate meteors.

  -=- Andrew Klossner  (andrew@frip.wv.tek.com)
                       (uunet!tektronix!frip.WV.TEK!andrew)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: tedebear@leland.Stanford.EDU (Theodore Chen)
Subject: Re: Why is US engine technology so retrograde?
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 09:33:39 GMT

In article <184857@pyramid.pyramid.com> lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell) writes:
>   The stereotype of engines is today just that.  The BIGGEST V-8's
>   in passenger cars are German (this eliminates trucks and the
>   Viper).  The Japanese engines in their luxo models are about the
>   same size as American engines.  And American engines much over 5
>   liters (which used to be considered very small in the late 60's
>   and 70's) are quite rare.

i don't think the germans have the biggest V-8's in passenger cars.
audi: 4.2 liter, up from 3.6
BMW: 4.0 liter (i think there is also a 3.0 liter)
mercedes: 5.0 liter, 4.2 liter
VW: none

until recently, the smallest V-8 you could get in a town car or
other large american sedan was 5 liters.  now 4.6 liter is as small
as they get.  (i'm ignoring cadillac's forgettable 4.1 liter V-8.)
i can think of several large american cars that come with 5.7 liter
engines.  looks to me as if the domestics have the bigger and biggest
V-8's.

now if you wanted to talk about biggest engine in a passenger sedan,
mercedes would win with its 6 liter V-12.

-teddy
Newsgroups: rec.autos