HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rfs@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (richard.f.j.soyack)
Subject: Re: It's you against the cultural elites!
Organization: AT&T
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 19:39:11 GMT

Isn't it wonderful how every news group degenerates into this
type of discussion.  I was just sitting here thinking about
the problems, challenges, and joys involved in my bring up my
12 year old son, Johnny.  The discussion about cars I found
interesting (for the future, of course), discussions about
motivation, etc, I would find interesting.  Discussions like
this one about eh Gulf War (which it has now become) I find
mostly to be slogan shouting (I keep getting these old images
of people huddled around a mimeo-graph machine in a basement).
Isn't slogan shouting boring?  And what does it have to do
with this news group?

Anyway, what do you do when your 12 year old tells you that he
has done all of his homework, and then you get a note from his
teacher saying that he has missed two assignments?  I'd be
interested to hear from parents who have dealt with this type
of problem.

Thanks,
Rich Soyack
From: alan@StarConn.com (Alan Deikman)
Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens
Subject: Re: Use of Family car
Keywords: Expense
Date: 3 Oct 92 16:09:03 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Starnet-Public Access UNIX--Los Altos, CA  415-949-3133

In article <1992Oct01.211330.12684@ux1.cts.eiu.edu> cfeem@ux1.cts.eiu.edu (Eleanor Midkiff) writes:
>>I must admit though, I think Judith Reed's way is a lot easier for the parent.
>>Simply count the cost and the potential for harm and damage. No offense intend
>>but I hope to invest more in my daughter than that.
>>
>Sorry, but this is really a cheap shot.  Many of us can't afford to
>"invest" $5000 - plus per year in transportation for our kids.  I am
>investing a great deal more than that in my kids' education, which IMHO is
>a great deal more important than having the convenience of a car.  I also
>think I'm teaching them an important lesson about values; I question
>whether someone who buys his kid a car is teaching anything of the sort.
>
>My $.02.
>
>Eleanor

I'm with you, Elanor.  Our oldest (16) wants to drive now but we have
made it clear that we cannot afford it and, having only one car for both
of us, cannot have that resource at risk.  We spend tons of money on
everything else, from clothes, food, education, etc.  Each kid has his
own color T.V., telephone, and stereo in his room.  

The result is that both kids have gotten themselves jobs and are
diligently trying to save money for their own cars, insurance, etc.
They have worked on spread sheets about how much it *really* costs to
have a car, and all of a sudden they have a lot more respect for all the
things Connie and I go through.

My $.025

Regards,


Alan
-- 
 
=================================================
= Alan Deikman           | alan@starnet.com     = 
= Znyx Advanced          | (510) 623-1298 VOICE =
From: jonwllms@csugrad.cs.vt.edu (John Williams)
Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens
Subject: Re: Use of Family car
Date: 26 Sep 92 19:18:07 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Virginia Tech Computer Science Dept, Blacksburg, VA
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

pauls@tellabs.com (Paul Silver) writes:
: 
: This is simply not true,  When I was a senior in high school, I road the bus.
: Most seniors rode the bus.  A few kids whose parents spoiled them or had
: bought their own car with their own savings from working drove.
:
I was close enough to walk. I only had the car the last month of HS.  

I was alright. 'Course, I never did go out much.
 
: IMHO the earliest a child needs his/her own car is college, and that's only
: if the child is living at home and commuting to college (my brother did this).
: If the child goes away to college, then a car shouldn't be needed then either.

Now, I don't know about that. It's very nice to have a car. That way, if
you need something you can go to K-Mart or some such place and get it,
and not pay the outrageous bookstore prices. Or, at least, you can do some
"shopping around." Here at VT, we can ride the bus for free - but riding the
bus can still be a pain.

-- 

John Williams
jonwllms@csugrad.cs.vt.edu
This Sig will become creative as soon as I can think of something.
From: alan@StarConn.com (Alan Deikman)
Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens
Subject: Re: ReAlright Judith!!!
Keywords: Should I let her use the car
Date: 3 Oct 92 02:26:26 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Starnet-Public Access UNIX--Los Altos, CA  415-949-3133

In article <1ab2roINNgg2@gw.home.vix.com> shedevil@vix.com (Anne P. Mitchell JD) writes:
>
>Alright Judith!!!!!  What a NICE thing to see (the "former") part!!!

I second that!

>
>*p.s. - so far, so good this school year. She hasn't skipped any classes this
>*year,

How is your relationship with her?  Have any good talks recently?  How
was this brought about?

Regards,

Alan

-- 
 
=================================================
= Alan Deikman           | alan@starnet.com     = 
= Znyx Advanced          | (510) 623-1298 VOICE =
From: bh@anarres.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Brian Harvey)
Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens
Subject: Re: Overcoming Shyness?
Date: 6 Oct 1992 14:42:15 GMT
Organization: University of California at Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: anarres.cs.berkeley.edu

smbailey@vax1.umkc.edu writes:
>Hi! Does anyone have any suggestions on how to overcome shyness?
>All replies would be very much appreciated.

Two things:

1.  Research shows that the MAJORITY of people think of themselves as
shy.  That is, most people underestimate their own ability to interact
socially with others, and overestimate everyone else's ability.  So
when you're watching other people and wishing you could make friends
the way they do, they might very well be thinking the same about you!

2.  Read the book "Shyness" by Philip Zimbardo.
From: smbailey@vax1.umkc.edu
Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens
Subject: Overcoming Shyness?
Date: 6 Oct 92 02:35:09 GMT
Organization: University of Missouri - Kansas City

Hi! Does anyone have any suggestions on how to overcome shyness?
All replies would be very much appreciated.
--
-=========================================================-
-= Hey? Is this my .sig down here?                       =-
-= If you reading it I guessed it work if your not well, =-
-= Ahh, just forget it!                                  =-
-=                        Stevie B                       =-
-=========================================================-     
Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens
From: smittie@beach.csulb.edu (Smittie)
Subject: Re: Use of Family car
Organization: Cal State Long Beach
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 16:53:11 GMT

>What I'm saying is: consider the practical matters. That people-won't-
>like-me-if-I-don't-have-a-car is not a good reason to have one. If it
>is beneficial to child, parent, or both, then you should consider it.

I agree 100%.

smittie
-- 
___________________________________________________________________________
GEnie, MCI, AOL:Smittie   All of these accounts except MCI will die on or
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___________________________________________________________________________
Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens
Subject: Re: Mattel and math avoidance in girls
From: emiddlec@mora.gac.edu (Eric Middlecamp)
Date: 1 Oct 92 14:43:15 -0600

In article <1992Sep29.203919.2777@zip.eecs.umich.edu>  writes:
>I think this got posted elsewhere, but just in case:
>
>     According to the Wall Street Journal this morning, Mattel is selling
>     a product called "Teen Talk Barbie" which says 4 phrases.  One of the 
>     phrases is "Math class is hard".  I can't imagine a product better
>     designed to program math avoidance into little girls.  We've all heard
>     many times how math avoidance limits women's educational opportunities
>     and career choices.  Mattel justifies this product by saying something
>     like they aren't saying the other classes are easy, and that they have
>     a doll availble that says "I want to be a doctor".  I'm sure we all
>     wish Barbie good luck on achieving her goal of becoming a doctor
>     without any math skills.  If you have views on this subject that
>     you would like to share with the Mattel company, you can call
>     1-800-421-2887 or write to Mattel at 330 Continental Blvd.,
>     El Secundo, Ca. 90245.
>
>- Chuck
> 
>-- 
>"I do not feel obliged to believe that same God who endowed us with sense,
>reason, and intellect, had intended for us to forgo their use." - Galileo
>"I'm an engineer, not a dictionary!" - Me
Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens
From: hjwulfso@unix.amherst.edu (HARRIS JOSHUA WULFSON)
Subject: Re: Use of Family car
Organization: Amherst College
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 22:48:02 GMT


     This discussion seems to be centered around social norms related to
cars, and "fitting in." Hogwash! A car is useful! As I child, my parents 
were constantly driving me to music lessons, karate lessons, religious
school, orchestra rehearsals etc.... Quite a tiring prospect for working
suburban parents. When I finally got my license, they made sure I had 
access to a car. They eased their own driving burden, and endowed me with
the responsabilty to meet my own appointments on time. I could go to the
Library without having to beg my mother drive me. Granted, if they had
not been able provide me with a car, I would have gotten around in other 
ways, but since they were able, they and I agreed that it was proper
for me to have one. 
     Now that I am at college, the car sits at home. I don't really need 
it. What I'm saying is: consider the practical matters. That people-won't-
like-me-if-I-don't-have-a-car is not a good reason to have one. If it 
is beneficial to child, parent, or both, then you should consider it.

  -Harris
From: linda@Software.Mitel.COM (Linda Campbell)
Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens
Subject: Help
Date: 29 Sep 92 14:37:20 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Mitel. Kanata (Ontario). Canada.

Hello fellow parents,

I'm posting this article in hopes that I can get some morale support out there.
Here is my dilemma.  My teenage daughter, who will be sixteen in December,met
her biological father for the first time last Christmas.  She has been in
regular contact with him ever since.  Just the other day she came to me and
told me that she wants to go and live with her father for a year so that she 
can get to know him and her younger siblings.  I can understand what she is
feeling and I'm willing to let her go but my problem is that he lives so
far away (He's in Iowa and I'm in Canada) and I won't be there when she really
needs me.  I've already started to have nightmares.  Is this just because I
have a hard time letting go?  She was my only child up until two years ago and
to me she'll always be my baby.  She is level headed and very mature for her age but she is still only sixteen.  Any advice out there from anyone who perhaps
has been through what I'm going through.

					Thanks for listening   
Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens
From: ahn@pop.cis.yale.edu (Eugene R. Ahn)
Subject: Re: It's you against the cultural elites!
Followup-To: alt.parents-teens
Organization: Yale University
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 21:42:03 GMT

In article <1992Oct4.193911.545@cbnewsh.cb.att.com>, rfs@cbnewsh.cb.att.com
(richard.f.j.soyack) wrote:
> 
> Isn't it wonderful how every news group degenerates into this
> type of discussion.  I was just sitting here thinking about
> the problems, challenges, and joys involved in my bring up my
> 12 year old son, Johnny.  The discussion about cars I found
> interesting (for the future, of course), discussions about
> motivation, etc, I would find interesting.  Discussions like
> this one about eh Gulf War (which it has now become) I find
> mostly to be slogan shouting (I keep getting these old images
> of people huddled around a mimeo-graph machine in a basement).

wow! will you look at those prejudices come forth and tear me apart!
Whheeee!

> Isn't slogan shouting boring?  And what does it have to do
> with this news group?
 
Slogan shouting? Is slogan shouting the new catchword for rationality? I'll
show you some REAL slogan shouting! *&F*@SC*)@ I guess this WAS the wrong
newsgroup to post it to. I'm outta here. but before I go, i'll offer my
advice.

> Anyway, what do you do when your 12 year old tells you that he
> has done all of his homework, and then you get a note from his
> teacher saying that he has missed two assignments?  I'd be
> interested to hear from parents who have dealt with this type
> of problem.

The answer is be fair and consistent. If the principle of lying to you
bothers you, and you would like Johnny to be truthful with you, then tell
him that is exactly what bothers you about the situation. 

"Johnny, not doing the homework is not what we're upset about, but telling
us otherwise was wrong. Just tell us. We don't care if you don't do your
homework!" 

But if you are against the actual not-doing the homework, offer some help
and support. I found that helping my sister through her studies, or just
sitting by her, keeping her company often helped her to ignore the monotony
of the schoolwork. This is hard for some people, because doing homework is
boring AS WELL as watching someone do it.

Since you may be busy yourself, try working independently in the same room,
your study or his, side by side (For example, you fill out grant, budgets,
medical forms, what have you, as Johnny labors through math!). It would be
a great lesson by example thing, and a good bonding experience if done in
the right context. "Hey son, it's pretty boring huh? But isn't it a relief
when it's all over!" And you don't have to go through all the "slogan
shouting" that parents are privy to "Oh but an education is so important.
Your future depends on it!" and blah blah blah :-)

Of course, this all depends on your career orientation and how much time
you can afford for your children.

--
Eugene "Mos Eisley" Ahn     ahn@suncis.cis.yale.edu
"What did you think of that reply?"
"No sir. I don't like it."
Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens
From: lynda@mozart.Physics.McGill.CA (Lynda Corkum)
Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens
Subject: Youth Protection
Date: 30 Sep 92 21:42:08 GMT
Organization: McGill University

Has anyone out there had any experience with what is called here in  
Montreal Youth Protection??? Recently, school officials at my thirteen  
year old daughter's high school called Youth Protection and filed a report  
on her and suddenly I've been assigned a Social Worker (even though I  
already have one by choice!) who after meeting with myself and my daughter  
once for one hour has decided to open a dossier on us. Having never dealt  
with an agency of this nature before, I know little about it, but somehow  
get the feeling that I have little or no say in what happens - very  
Authoritarian. 
 
The report was filed because last year my daughter, who was twelve at the  
time, during a school dance decided to take 27 aspirins crushed up in a  
coca cola and was then rushed by ambulance to the children's hospital  
where she spent three days in the Psychiatric Ward and had heavy duty  
psychiatric evaluations. Of course, initially they treated it as a suicide  
attempt (I still cringe to think of it!), and after all the evaluations I  
was told by several different psychiatrists that she is not suicidal and  
that further counselling was not necessary.
 
This week, at school she had a conversation with a girlfriend about a boy  
she liked and told her friend `tell him to call me, it's a matter of life  
or death'. Another friend overheard this and told a school official and I  
was called at work and told that my daughter was threatening to commit  
suicide. After frantically racing home and finding my daughter in one  
piece, she was totally surprised that I had received that call. I don't  
resent the call because if I really considered her suicidal I would want  
people to be intervening; however, now I am made to feel that I am not a  
good parent and am being TOLD what to do, feel, think, etc.
  
I probably should also mention, that since the incident with the aspirin  
last year, I myself have been going to a psychiatrist who works at the  
children's hospital and deals with adolescents. She was very annoyed when  
I told her about being reported to Youth Protection - she feels that they  
are over reacting and undoing the progress my daughter and I have made in  
our relationship since last year. I have always suffered a lot of guilt,  
typically associated with being a single parent, and now I just took on a  
whole new head (and heart) full of it.
 
Has anyone had similar experiences or know of anyone who has, or can  
anyone explain exactly what Youth Protection is all about?
 
Guiltier-Than-Ever Single Mom
From: smittie@beach.csulb.edu (Smittie)
Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens
Subject: Re: Use of Family car
Date: 1 Oct 92 22:46:18 GMT
 yr.edu><SMITTIE.92Sep30123453@beach.csulb.edu><1992Oct01.211330.12684@ux1.cts.eiu.edu>
Followup-To: alt.parents-teens
Distribution: na
Organization: Cal State Long Beach

>cfeem@ux1.cts.eiu.edu (Eleanor Midkiff) said:
>Sorry, but this is really a cheap shot. Many of us can't afford to "invest"
>$5000 - plus per year in transportation for our kids.

I stated very clearly in my post that I was not advocating the purchase of cars
for every teenage who wants one. Moreover I consider whatever money my child
costs me an extremely small investment. If I have not invested of myself, my
time, my respect, and my love then all the money I'll ever have will not be
enough.

I said:
>>No offense intend but I hope to invest more in my daughter than that.

I hope to invest so much of my time in my daughter that I make sacrafices
elsewhere. I hope that I can never say, "not now I am busy." It is the
investments of time, patience and effort that will give the greatest return. I
was not thinking of money and I think I made that pretty clear in my original
post.

smittie
-- 
___________________________________________________________________________
GEnie, MCI, AOL:Smittie   All of these accounts except MCI will die on or
smittie@beach.csulb.edu   about Dec 31. UNIX will be forwarded for 2 weeks.
___________________________________________________________________________
From: shedevil@vix.com (Anne P. Mitchell JD)
Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens
Subject: ReAlright Judith!!!
Date: 29 Sep 1992 19:19:36 -0700
Organization: Fathers' Rights & Equality Exchange
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: gw.home.vix.com
Keywords: Should I let her use the car

In a recent missive jareed@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Judith Ann Reed) tells us:

*Judith Reed, mom to Tanya, almost 15, the former 9th grader from hell. 
                                           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


Alright Judith!!!!!  What a NICE thing to see (the "former") part!!!

*p.s. - so far, so good this school year. She hasn't skipped any classes this
*year,
*says it is really tough going to all those classes all the time!!!!


Again..yaaaay!!! :-)


-- 
   LOOKING FOR:  David Widdicombe, Hobson Woodward, Lorna Taylor & JJ Lancey
I am: Anne Mitchell, mom, & founder of the Fathers' Rights & Equality Exchange
Ask me about FREE!  FREE files available via anonymous ftp 128.45.1.1; dir /pub
          sex is a misdemeanor - the more I miss, the meaner I get.
Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens
From: tynan@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (tara.j.tynan)
Subject: Re: It's you against the cultural elites!
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 18:26:21 GMT

In article <1992Oct4.193911.545@cbnewsh.cb.att.com> rfs@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (richard.f.j.soyack) writes:
>
>Anyway, what do you do when your 12 year old tells you that he
>has done all of his homework, and then you get a note from his
>teacher saying that he has missed two assignments?  I'd be
>interested to hear from parents who have dealt with this type
>of problem.
>
>Thanks,
>Rich Soyack


Ah Rich,  your son must be related to our daughter!  Speaking from
hind sight (which is always 20/20, you know), look for the underlying
issue.  But while you're doing that, you do need to help him catch
up.  You're lucky to find out after only 2 missed assignments.  Our
daughter was having problems in most of her classes when we found out.
(The teachers' lack of timely parental involvement is another issue...)

We met with the instructors and our daughter to ascertain where she was
and what she could still do about the situation.  Some assignments she
ended up doing even though the grade was a non-negotiable zero.  This
was at my insistence.  For the assignments that were still salvagable
(gradewise) we helped her see that the situation was not hopeless, BUT
that she needed to take ownership and responsibility for them.

What we also tried with mixed success, was having her write down all
assignments in a notebook and at the end of each class, the teacher would
initial that what she wrote down was correct.  Then after she did each
assignment, we would initial that we saw the homework and it was done.
Of course, this only works as long as each involved person does their part.

We also did some "bribing" after discussing the situation thoroughly
between ourselves and appropriate professionals.  We did this using
weekly bribes (movie of her choice - albeit the movie had to be showing
at the dollar theatre :^)  ) to a new bike at the end of school if she
brought her grades up at least one grade level in each subject.

I know there are people who will say this wasn't the right tactic, but
the missed homework assignments were direct results of an underlying
issue which I won't get into here.  She definitely needed goals to work
towards.

She got the bike although it was touch and go.  She really had to work
her rear-end off right up to end.  She didn't know for sure until the
year end report card arrived.

It does sound like you are finding out about the missed stuff much
sooner than we did.  So a phone call to the teacher would be appropriate
to find out her/his side of the story and see if the two match.   Working
as a team (you, your son, the teacher) should enable the situation to be
resolved.

For us, this year things are much improved.  We've learned to watch more
closely on our end and she's learned the hard way about time management
skills and the dangers of procrastination.

Good luck!

	Tara Tynan
From: smittie@beach.csulb.edu (Smittie)
Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens
Subject: Re: Use of Family car
Date: 5 Oct 92 20:31:00 GMT
 u><1992Oct01.211330.12684@ux1.cts.eiu.edu><1992Oct3.160903.26048@StarConn.com>
Distribution: na
Organization: Cal State Long Beach

Eleanor's failure to comprehend what I was saying not withstanding, I wholely
support and applaud Alan's approach. It is exactly what I think needs to happen
a hell of a lot more often. It is obvious to me that there was some extensive
dailogue at Alan's house and while the kids probably aren't too happy with the
decision they also probably feel as if they were included in the process. This
is a whole lot better than most of the parents I know who simply say, "no you
can't have a car! It's too damn expensive."

smittie
-- 
___________________________________________________________________________
GEnie, MCI, AOL:Smittie   All of these accounts except MCI will die on or
smittie@beach.csulb.edu   about Dec 31. UNIX will be forwarded for 2 weeks.
___________________________________________________________________________
Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens