HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mzimmers@netcom.com (Michael Zimmers)
Subject: Re: What is "superiority"? (Was: AFC vs. NFC drivel)
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 17:55:05 GMT

In article <C07y4C.KJ9@acsu.buffalo.edu> carrato@acsu.buffalo.edu (Michael Carrato) writes:

>mzimmers@netcom.com (Michael Zimmers) writes:

>>2. The NFC has produced superior playoff teams.  I have a gut feel that
>>   this is true, but I can't back it up with other than anecdotal
>>   evidence.  I'm not sure how this could be measured, either.

>I am not convinced of this. Why don't we compare interconference games
>between playoff teams over the last 8 years? Has this been done already?

Before we put someone to the task, let's refine the question a bit.
I assert that limiting the selections to teams heading for the
playoffs *that particular year* will result in too few data points.
How about also using the interconference records for playoff teams
for the years they made postseason, *plus* the year before and the
year after?

This will at least double the number of samples.  I also isn't too
much of a compromise to include the surrounding years, as the intent
is to compare the "better" teams of each conference.

>>4. The mean NFC team is better than the mean AFC team.  (This compares
>>   the two conferences top-to-bottom.)  IMHO, an absolutely meaningless
>>   stat for superiority measurement.

>Meaningless? I wouldn't say that. The 'mean' is directly correlated
>with the overall interconference record, so I don't think it is 
>completely useless.

It's useless in terms of comparing playoff talent.  You'll have a pool
that includes intra- and interconference battles of the mediocre and
the scrubs.  Using this to discern playoff talent is whizzing in the wind.

>>- Is #2 true and by what measure?
>
>I think #2 may be true but not nearly as much as NFC proponents say.
>I've seen claims that the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th seeds in the NFC would
>have no trouble beating the #1 AFC team the last few years, and that
>is ridiculous.

Well, we don't know that, do we?

>Furthermore, using #1 alone to argue overall conference superiority is
>absurd.

Yes, but the only ones who seem to be interested in overall superiority
are those who don't want to admit NFC playoff superiority and use it
as a dodge.

>(Wouldn't it be funny if the AFC finally won one and we suddenly
>flip-flopped our arguments? :-))

Sure would.  I'll flip-flop when the AFC approaches winning eight.


-- 
Michael Zimmers                                    |  Home:  408 996 1984
SoftHelp                                           |  Work:  408 996 1965
Software Solutions for Open Systems                |  Data:  408 996 1974
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: douthit@convex.com (Ronnie Douthit)
Subject: smith/foster.
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 17:57:21 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

Ok, thank you Atlanta.  Smit is only 5 yards behind Foster.  Will Foster play 
before the Chigago/Dallas game so that the Cowboys know what the winning total 
is ?

Anyone know the status of Foster, is he expected to play next week ?

Should/will Dallas risk getting Smith hurt to regain the rushing title ?

			-Ron
From: eha@stud.hsn.no (Ernst Halvard Sandjord)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Stats needed
Date: 31 Dec 92 10:52:41 GMT
Organization: Nordland College

Please help me. A far cry from Norway.

I need the individual stats for the Raiders players (vs. the Redskins)
and for the Jets players (vs. the Saints).
That is rushing, passing, receiving, ints and missed FGs.
I usually get USA Today on Wednesdays but it didn't happen this week.

Thanx in advance.

Mail to:
eha@sneik.hsn.no

Ernst Sandjord.
From: skywalke@dino.qci.bioch.bcm.tmc.edu (Timothy B. Reynolds)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: Are the Falcons really that lame?
Date: 22 Dec 1992 15:10:01 GMT
Organization: X-Ray Crystallography / Atomic Biophysics H.H.M.I.
NNTP-Posting-Host: dino.qci.bioch.bcm.tmc.edu

In article <1992Dec22.052903.29870@PacBell.COM> jpglori@srv.PacBell.COM (JOHN) writes:
 >Seems like the Falcons are MNF's 90lb weaklings,
 >cream puffs, pushovers, jellfish and you add
 >the rest.
 >-- 
 > ---------  John Gloria - jpglori@pacbell.com	--------	
 >"To be absolutely certain about something, one must know
 >everything or nothing about it."   Olin Miller

Tampa was a Cream puff too until last Saturday !

So the niners wanna play Dallas....
Emmitt see ball, Emmitt take hand-off, Emmitt see endzone,
TOUCHDOWN !!

Candlestick ?, 
who cares !

DALLAS COWBOYS
1992 NFC EAST CHAMPIONS
Tim
From: v066pwk9@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (BRUCE YAEGER)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Cleveland has Classy Fans! (from a Bills fan perspective)
Date: 21 Dec 92 21:56:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

Well, I was listening to the radio this morning when a Cleveland
fan called about the Bills.  He said that when they posted the
Bills-Saints score when the Bills took the lead that 60,000
fans in Cleveland Stadium cheered.  Its good to know that other
cities support the Buffalo Bills, and especially the AFC team
this year in the Superbowl.  That guy's phone call made my day!

Good luck next year Cleveland.

Bruce, a Bills fan. 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: daveshao@leland.stanford.edu (David Shao)
Subject: Why the Cardinals shouldn't be a winner
Originator: daveshao@leland.Stanford.EDU
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 92 02:48:57 GMT

In article <1992Dec22.175003.3188@weber.com> steve@weber.com (Steve Keshen) writes:

>Let's get some new blood involved.  
>
>I'll always be a Bears fan,  but why can't the Bucs be up there?  The
>Cardinals haven't been in the playoffs since 75, I think.  

I have been a Cardinals fan ever since I was born and raised in
Missouri.  I have come to accept that as long as the Cardinals have
their current ownership, they will never go to a Super Bowl.  In fact,
they probably won't host a playoff game.  All that's left is to make
some sort of philosophical sense of this.

It would be bad for America if the Cardinals were to become winners.
After all, for the Cardinals to win would mean that there is has been
a temporary repeal of basic laws concerning how to succeed in sports
competition.  It would be as if a marathoner never trained and ate
junk food until he weighed 300 pounds and then won the gold medal in
the Olympics.  

One of the most pernicious American myths is that of the extremely
talented person who reduces his life to a shambles, yet somehow performs
well under pressure.  Bears fans should know this well.  What destroyed
the Bears dynasty was Jim McMahon not keeping himself in condition
during the off-season following the Super Bowl victory.  Had McMahon
simply kept himself healthy, he and the Bears would have been the
successor to Bradshaw and the Steelers.  

It is terrible if a team that drafts poorly and treats its fans and
players like dirt becomes a winner.  Let us recall the ending of the movie
"The Maltese Falcon" where Humphrey Bogart in the role of Sam Spade
explains why he must turn his lover over to the police.  He explains
that it would be "bad business" for detectives in general if he were
to help the person who murdered his partner escape justice.  The same
is true for us football fans of the Cardinals--although we love them,
it would be "bad business" for all football fans if they were to
become winners.



Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: bergerson@cvdv79.mayo.edu (Chad D. Bergerson)
Subject: Re: VIKINGS WIN!!! 6-3
Reply-To: bergerson@mayo.edu
Organization: Mayo Clinic, Rochester, MN
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 92 13:40:01 GMT


In article <1992Dec20.210940.14098@PacBell.COM>, jpglori@srv.PacBell.COM (JOHN) writes:
->Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
->From: jpglori@srv.PacBell.COM (JOHN)
->Subject: Re: VIKINGS WIN!!! 6-3
->
->In article <1h2mtfINN2lo@uwm.edu> caeser@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Robert Michael Trotter) writes:
->>
->>	Ugly or not, we are the NFC Central Champs! We have beaten a
->>	winning team in Pittsburgh, and we are definately headed to the
->>	playoffs. Awesome Sunday!
->>
->>	Mark
->>	GO VIKINGS!
->>
->>	ps- Sorry Pack fans, you gave it a great effort, just a bit short.
->>
->
->sorry, not to cause any flames, but if the Vikes cannot
->score anymore than 6 points, their playoff advancement hopes are
->rather dismal.
->-- 
-> ---------  John Gloria - jpglori@pacbell.com	--------	
->"To be absolutely certain about something, one must know
->everything or nothing about it."   Olin Miller
->

SO WHAT!!  You only need 6 points if the other team only gets 3. :^)

Awesome defense.

--
*******************************************************************************
Chad D. Bergerson                            Internet: bergerson@mayo.edu
Mayo Clinic                                  Voice: (507) 255-7567
200 First Street SW                          FAX: (507) 255-5484
Mail Stop 2D-334 STM            "In my dream I was drowning my sorrows  
Rochester, MN  55905             But my sorrows they learned to swim..." - U2
*******************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: matthew@cs.mun.ca (Matthew J. Newhook)
Subject: Re: any Raider fans out there?
Organization: CS Dept., Memorial University of Newfoundland
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 01:49:17 GMT

boell@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Donald P Boell) writes:
>>- It aint Jay. They probably would have done better this year with 
>>  Jay throughout.   

>No.  The game monday was a perfect example of Jay's abilities.  Lock onto
>a receiver, fling the ball up, watch it get picked because the pass was
>telegraphed.  Or watch it go high...or short...or left...or right.  Jay has
>a good arm but reminds me a lot of a pitcher named Burba for the Giants in
>that he has no control.  The 'Scud' nickname is well earned.

Well, I'm not defending the scud, but I really don't think that it is
entirely his fault!   His receivers just do not get open.  If they
are not open, then he cannot get the ball to them plain and simple.

>I don't agree.  With good WRs (Brown, Gault) a decent TE (Horton) and some
>RBs that can catch passes (S. Smith, Allen) the team could win with a good
>QB.  Someone like Montana or Boomer is going to complete > 50% of the passes.
>Jay can't.  I do agree that I'd like to see more screen passes, draws, slant
>patterns etc.

Yeah, well it's pretty obvious that the play calling for the Raiders is
pretty boring, standard stuff.  Add a few more plays to the book and
the team would do alot better...  

I mean who else is sick of seeing this:  Give dickerson the ball, goes
say 3 yd.  Give him the ball again, he gets dumped for a 1 yard loss,
then Jay has to throw a 8 yd pass, to a receiver that isn't open.
It is no big secret...  Their play calling just plain sucks.

At least the defence is good.  However, in the sunday game I heard the
announcers say that Lott wants to go back to San Franciso.   Any word
on this?

Matthew
-- 
Matthew Newhook (matthew@engr.mun.ca)       |  "...get on with the fascination
Faculty of Engineering and Applied Science  |  the real relation, the underlying
Memorial University of Newfoundland, Canada |  theme" - Limelight, Rush
From: wisp@dcs.warwick.ac.uk (Wisp)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: REDSKINS LOOSE! YES!
Date: 29 Dec 92 13:48:56 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, Warwick University, England

In article <1992Dec27.000156.12455@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> asj4j@holmes.acc.Virginia.EDU (JonaX) writes:
>YES YES YES YES YES!!!!!!!  The REDSKINS LOST TO THE RAIDERS BY
>ONE POINT (21-20)!  I LOVE IT!  All Redskins fans are welcome
>to flame me.... It'll just make it all sooooo much sweeter!
>
>
>

No flames necessary: the only thing to say is


                THANK YOU, VIKES!!!!!!!!!!

The Wisp. ['Skins fan in a strange land...]
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: markl@spuddy.uucp (Mark Liversedge)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: THE FOOTBALL GODS HAVE SPOKEN!!!
Date: 21 Dec 92 14:57:36 GMT
Organization: Spuddy's Public Usenet Domain

In article <27000185@hpcc01.corp.hp.com> boell@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Donald P Boell) writes:
>I for one like John's write-ups of the play by play action during the 9er 
>games.  You can tell he loves the team and gets very excited when the D sacks
>the QB or when Rice gets a TD on a 5 yard slant that he turns into an 80 yd
>sprint.
Good for you.

>
>John is not nearly as obnoxious as some woofers I could mention (for 
>example - Tegger last year).  As a Raider fan in the bay area I have not 
>had a lot to cheer about this year.  If someone other than the silver
>and black are going to win then it may as well be the red and gold.
>The rest of you are simply jealous of the dynasty the 9ers have built
>since the early 80s.
Get real.  And for what reason should it be Red&Gold over Silver&Black?

>
>And as for those of you who are out to bait 9er fans with idiotic statements
>about the team and its players - piss off.
>
You do it all on yer own, I couldn't give a damn, frankly.
When JPG says something worth reading I'll be the first to
congratulate him.
>Don Boell
>"Just win baby"
Great mentality - what a sportsman.

-- 

 * Meeeow ! Call Spuddy on (0203) 638780/638693 for FREE mail & Usenet access *
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 14:09:33 EST
From: <JCT3@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: Draft stuff
 <C01BE6.71K@hfglobe.intel.com> <103359@netnews.upenn.edu>

In article <103359@netnews.upenn.edu>, satish@a.chem.upenn.edu (Satish Nair)
says:
>
>Hi,
>
>Since the season is over and since SOME of us don't have anything to do
>but sit on our thumbs waiting for next season, would anyone like to take
>a stab at what draft prospects will do the most good for their respective
>favorite teams?  Here's how I see the first four picks (unfortunately,
>my team traded away their first choice :-( ..
>
>Seattle: Lincoln Kennedy OT, Washington.  Rather than spending another first
>        round pick on a QB, they should try to get a better O line and this
>        guy will be one of the best soon!
>
>New England: Garrison Hearst, RB, Georgia.  Thgey've already spent a few 1st
>        rounders on offensive linesman (Pat Harlow, Eugene Chung) so I think
>        they'll probably address the need for a running game.
>
>NY Jets: Reggie Brooks, RB, Notre Dame.  Blair Thomas was a bust, they need
>        a running game to take some heat off their rookie QB.
>
>Phoenix: That defensive lineman from 'Bama.  Can't remember his name for the
                             :::
>        life of me.  Anyways, the Cards need a pass rusher and this dude is
>        it!

That's "lineMEN."  Both Eric Curry and John Copland will probably go
quite early in the first round to anyone wanting a solid anchor for a
front line.  Curry will probabpy go to a team w/ a 4-3 scheme, and Copland
to one with a 3-4.

Jim Thomas
From: rob@hnrc.tufts.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Redskins hopes
Date: 31 Dec 92 16:34:12 GMT
Organization: USDA HNRC at Tufts University


Did Joe Gibbs lose three in a row this year ?  If not, has he ever ?
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: schw_mi@pts.mot.com (Mike Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Dan Reeves firing
Reply-To: schw_mi@pts.mot.com
Organization: Motorola Communication Systems, Boynton Beach, Florida
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 14:19:57 GMT

I don't think you will see Dan Reeves coaching this coming year.  Dan has had total
control over football operations in Denver(except contract neg.) He approved all trades
and hires/fires.  Most GMs or Owners have that power.  In Phoenix and the Raiders,
their owners have a BIG say in what player moves and selections happen.  Tom Flores
has control over Seattle, and I think he won't give up the control Reeves would 
want.

---
Michael A. Schwarz
A missed place Bronco Fan in Dolphin Country.
Go Broncos
From: gaf5@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (Gail A. Fullman)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: Wild Card in Super Bowl ( was Redskins Repeat)
Date: 23 Dec 92 13:23:28 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

In article <1992Dec22.022540.16241@netcom.com>, xtifr@netcom.com (Chris Waters)
writes:
>In <sterbenc-211292095425@150.130.23.185> sterbenc@ivhs.mot.com (Joe Sterbenc)
writes:
>
>>In article <1992Dec20.100458.23579@math.ucla.edu>,
>>rfedkiw@olympic.math.ucla.edu (Ronald Fedkiw) wrote:
>>>
>>> In Article 41611, jason writes...
>>>
>>> >i do not believe a wild card team has EVER made it to the superbowl...
>>> >this would immediately disqualify a championship game between two
>>> >wildcards... but i could be wrong on that... i don't know for sure if
>>> >a wild card team has made it to the superbowl... i remember hearing a
>>> >couple years ago that no AFC wildcard team has ever made it to the
>>> >superbowl... but i am not so sure about the nfc...
>
>>Actually, the Flores/Plunkett Raiders WON the Super Bowl as a wildcard.
>
>And, more recently (though only slightly), the Patriots made it to the
>superbowl on a wildcard, only to be trounced by the Bears.
>
>AFAIK, the Raiders are the only team to win the SB as a wildcard.  As
>for the comment that no AFC team has made it to the big dance as a
>wildcard, perhaps this is backwards.  I can't name any _NFC_ team that
>has done this.  Although I seem to remember something about Washington
>in the early '80s.  I don't know...
>--
>Chris Waters    | the insane don't | "Imaginary guitar notes [...] exist only
>xtifr@netcom.COM| need disclaimers |  in the imagination of the imaginer" --FZ
>
I'm sure all this will be explained in much detail on Super Bowl Sunday,
especially if a Wild Card Team makes it to the big dance.
-- 

------------------------
|   Gail A. Fullman    |
|   Manager - ADMO     |
|   Ext. 83113         |
------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: cobarruvias@asd2.jsc.nasa.gov
Subject: Re: a billboard in houston
Organization: NASA/JSC
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 16:07:45 GMT

In article <30DEC199210230964@rosie.uh.edu> libr@rosie.uh.edu (Harvey Brauner)
writes:
>In article <1hsea5INNegv@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu>,
skywalke@dino.qci.bioch.bcm.tmc.edu (Timothy B. Reynolds) writes...
>>In article <C01zqr.CE@hpuerca.atl.hp.com> krb@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Kevin
Barnes) writes:
>> >Only Houston fans would count injuries 9sad,, very sad)
>

Houston Fans DONT count injuries. When Kelly was carted off the field, he
received a STANDING Ovation. It looked like the wave with Kelly leading it.
Sounds like the fans attending the game had some class, but we cant say that
for Pappasitos. 

>>HOUSTON 27
>>BUFFALO  3
>>INJURIES 8

I saw this too, but I think they were counting all injuries and it wasn't meant
to be anti-Buffalo

>While your at it order the Fajita Special...I hear it's really good :)

And yes the Fajitas are great. Get 2 buddings to go with you and order the
Fajitas for 2. Its enough to feed 3. All their servings are VERY VERY generous,
sometimes wasteful.

>
>>And people ask me why Im a Dallas fan here in Houston ?
>>I rest my case......

I dont ask that. I ask why are you a Dallas fan? Actually as long as you make
money, spend money, and contribute your taxes to my city, I could care less if
you were a <pick your team> fan.

>> Go Cowboys !!!!!!
>>tim
>
>What case? 
>
>         Harvey Brauner - libr@jetson.uh.edu  | Systems Department    
>                          crunge@menudo.uh.edu| Univeristy Libraries  
>                                              | University of Houston 
>



*****************************************************************
John R. Cobarruvias, Texas A&M Class of '78, 
NASA Johnson Space Center Houston Tx.
(713)483-9357

"And to think..................I hesitated" (Hellraiser II)
*****************************************************************

Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: gordons@coopsol.com (Gordon Storga)
Subject: Re: total yards from scrimmage
Organization: Stay Awake Software
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 19:39:18 GMT

<1992Dec21.210743.6790@PacBell.COM> jpglori@srv.PacBell.COM (JOHN) said:
><102876@netnews.upenn.edu> satish@a.chem.upenn.edu (Satish Nair) writes:
>>Along these lines, I wonder just how much yards (rushing) means 
>>in the NFL these days.  I heard yesterday that the Seahawks' RB
>>is approaching 1000 yards.  But how many of these yards are "real"
>>and how many were given up by an defense after thay had a comfortable
>>lead?
>>
>Not intended as a flame to your question regarding "real" rushing
>yards. Rushing is rushing and yards passing is yards passing.
>There are no asterisks next to a RBs totals to differentiate your
>rationale. OJ Simpson's, Jim Brown's, E. Smith's, T.Thomas's, etc.,
>are all valid rushing totals regardless of team standings/rankings
>in the NFL. I also don't think it should matter if they got these
>yards because of your scenario. 

This is rather silly, Gloria.  Of course it matters.  Ask any defensive
coordinator in the league if it matters.  If I'm preparing a defensive
game plan against your team and I just look at the stats they might say
that your RB got 150 yards in his last game.  Should I immediately plan
on how to stop this amazing juggernaut of an RB?  Not necessarily.  If
I examine the facts I might find that those yards were gained after the
game was well out of hand, the other team was up by 3 TD and was playing
very deep zone coverage.  Your RB broke a couple of long ones against a
3 man line with NO LBs.  Big deal.

Satish's question appeared to me to be asking what the yards meant in the
context of future games and determining if a team has a bonified rushing
threat or it was just circumstances.  It certainly does matter in those
cases.


Gordon
-- 
The opinions expressed are my own, and not the beliefs or opinions
of whatever company you think I work for.  So there, thhhbbbt!
Message to Kodak:  Freedom for Dan Bredy.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: patrick@rio-grande.is.rice.edu (Patrick L Humphrey)
Subject: Re: Boston Redskins
Organization: Rice University, Houston, Texas
	<DMERCER.92Dec28154622@ap1pyr.oracle.com>
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 07:31:33 GMT

In article <DMERCER.92Dec28154622@ap1pyr.oracle.com> dmercer@oracle.com (David Mercer) writes: