HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: slking%epx.cis.umn.edu (Simon King)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: VNS, Fri 25-Sep-92
Date: 26 Sep 92 21:38:28 GMT
Organization: Univ. MN

>From VNS 25 Sep:
>      Here is the News at 07:00 BST on Friday 25-September-1992

 [deleted stuff about Chancellor Lemon reducing public spending (having just 
borrowed n zillion DM's)]

>      David Mellor is to make his resignation speech today following his
>      decision yesterday to step down as Heritage secretary. In a letter to the
>      PM, he gave his reasons as wanting to stop the barrage of criticisms from
>      the tabloid press from damaging the party and the government. Many people
>      have expressed regret at his departure.
         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
- the Sun, Mirror and Sunday Sport perhaps ??


>From VNS 24 Sep:
>     Here is the News at 07:00 BST on Thursday 24-September-1992

>     The Heritage secretary, David Mellor, has insisted that he will not
>     resign following attacks on him by the tabloid press although he did say
>     that he would go if that was the wish of his colleagues and the prime
>     minister. Mr Major has strongly backed Mr Mellor although a number of
>     conservative MP's are known to prefer him to resign.
                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
- these MP's are obviously not shareholders in the Sun, Mirror or Sunday Sport !

I LOVE IT !!!

However, I daresay that, in common with the very many previous such incidents in 
which erect pillars of the Tory establishment have personified the ethics of 
conservativism, both this and the recent currency debacle will be completely 
forgotten within a couple of years (and certainly long before the next election). 
David Mellor will probably be back in the Cabinet (preferably without air-holes).

Simon 

P.S. Who was the Home Sec/ Foreign Sec/ other senior cabinet member who was
nailed for drunk driving a few years back (1980 ish ? I seem to remember: 10mph,
bumping into the kerb every now and then around St. James's Park) ??
From: kevinh@hslrswi.hasler.ascom.ch (kevinh)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Currency Problems
Date: 6 Oct 92 13:03:47 GMT
Reply-To: kevinh@hslrswi.hasler.ascom.ch
Organization: Ascom Hasler AG
Originator: kevinh@nath


In article <qnd2tvc@zola.esd.sgi.com>, livesey@solntze.esd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:
|> In article <1992Oct5.132145.23061@hasler.ascom.ch>, kevinh@hslrswi.hasler.ascom.ch (kevinh) writes:
|> |> 
|> |> In article <1ah9ttINNf5g@grapevine.EBay.Sun.COM>, martin.baines@uk.sun.com (Martin Baines - Sun UK - SE Manager Cambridge) writes:
|> |> |> 
|> |> |> Industries *can* come back: look at the British car industry,
|> |> |> from a low point in 1989 it is now expanding again,
|> |> 
|> |> Small but subtle difference, there used to be a British car
|> |> industry, now there's a car industry in Britain - spot the 
|> |> difference!
|> 
|> And the difference is <drum roll> the new car industry in Britain
|> is allowed to get on with the job of building cars any way it
|> wants, buying its parts from any supplier it wants, using whatever
|> labour it wants, at the lowest cost it can get,

Do you really believe that they placed factories here because British
labour is the cheapest?? or because it was the most qualified/experienced
(Nissan actively looked for totally unqualified people, in the economically
depressed area they decided (!) to place their factory).

The reason is <drum roll> british goverment subsidies.


|> jon.

kevinh@hasler.ascom.ch
From: smee@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Currency Problems
Date: 30 Sep 92 16:07:42 GMT
Reply-To: P.Smee@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee)
Organization: University of Bristol

In article <1992Sep30.140406.17196@osf.org> sp@osf.org (Simon Patience) writes:
>I take the point about supply/demand but if this was really an issue then
>the imported coal prices would also rise if the demand was greater than
>supply. I have been led to believe that much of UK coal is not in places 
>condusive to being dug out, ie deep, and it is this, as much as anything
>that makes it expensive.

It's my understanding (which of course means it might be wrong) that,
by and large, the hard-to-work pits have long since been closed, and
that they are now hitting a group of reasonably easy to dig ones.  It's
actually also my understanding, ditto the disclaimer, that some of the
current target pits actually do, individually, produce coal cheaper
than imported coal, but that British Coal is required to operate what
amount to cross-subsidies internally, such that all the coal they
produce is priced according to average production costs among all
pits.  Finally, I believe that there are coal 'quality' factors (e.g.
low sulphur, etc) which might tend to favor British coal except that
they don't appear in the economic analysis.  (I would certainly welcome
being corrected if any of these are wrong.)

>I have come to conclusion that it is extremely cost inefficient to leave
>something as important as power generation in government hands.

Ah, a political difference.  One of my feelings is that things which
are basically 'natural monopolies', and which should be (another
opinion, of course) considered necessities of civilized living, ought
to be run by (properly-run) nationalised industry.  Particularly in
cases where, if they are run privately, the government is going to
'need' to create a monitoring bureaucracy parallel to the company's
operational bureaucracy, which feels painfully inefficient.

Amongst such things I'd include power, water, sewage disposal, etc.  I
don't see any particular reason for government ownership of steel
works, car companies, coal mines, etc.  People always then ask me,
'what about food?'  I don't see that as a natural monopoly.  On the
other hand I do think society ought to take on the responsibility for
making sure everyone has a survival ration.  You can probably also
think of some goods or services which will confuse me.  I haven't yet
figured out a completely clean-cut and unambiguous way to describe the
line I've drawn.

-- 
Paul Smee, Computing Service, University of Bristol, Bristol BS8 1UD, UK
 P.Smee@bristol.ac.uk - ..!uunet!uknet!bsmail!p.smee - Tel +44 272 303132
From: dpl@aber.ac.uk (David Philip Langstaff)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Names of naughty politicians
Date: 6 Oct 92 08:51:04 GMT
Organization: University of Wales, Aberystwyth

In article <Bvn9y8.G1n@scd.hp.com> tim%hpcpbla.bri.hp.com@hplb.hpl.hp.com writes:
>
>I'm setting up a cluster of workstations and it has been decreed that the
>hostnames will have a theme.  The weenies around here want to name them
>after characters from Startrek (yuk).  To counteract this I've come up 
>with the idea of politicians disgraced by scandal (the more sordid the better).
>I need your help with some more names. I have so far:
>
>Profumo
>Mellor
>Thorpe
>Archer
>Lucan (not a politician but the right flavour)
>

Lovely naming scheme, nice one Tim !, it does have the advantage that the
list will extend from time to time, so you're not going to run out of
possible nodes for your network.

How about
Stonehouse - caught with his fingers in the till.
Poulson    - not a politician but greased a few palms in his time.
T.Dan.Smith - involved with Poulson (I think)

I suppose that given such a network, you could always use Cynthia Payne
& Christine Keeler as servers.


-- 
Dave Langstaff | Janet:dpl@uk.ac.aber
Any views expressed are those of the author alone. | Phone:(0970)622838 
After-life, After-shave, don't hold with any of it, bleugh! - Sir Henry 
Xref: sparky soc.culture.british:13183 rec.arts.books:17108
From: sewell@tsingtao.bnr.ca (Henry Sewell)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Enforced Shakespeare?
Date: 29 Sep 92 14:50:49 GMT
Organization: Bell Northern Research Montreal, Canada.

Shakespeare is presented even here in La Belle Province.
A friend of my daughter, in Secondary 4 of a French school,
has just embarked on Macbeth. She reports that early
discussions centered on the absence of women from the
stage (men played women's parts) and Shakespeare's
sexual orientation(s).
Henry Sewell     my opinion, not my employer's

 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: firth@sei.cmu.edu (Robert Firth)
Subject: Re: Enforced Shakespeare?
Organization: Software Engineering Institute
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 12:39:26 GMT

In article <1992Sep29.070708.11757@rdg.dec.com> cockburn@edieng.enet.dec.com (Craig Cockburn) writes:

>Somehow I doubt it. I saw this year's exam papers in Scotland, and there
>was Shakespeare, but no Robert Burns, probably the world's best known poet.

Bard, yes; even National Bard of Scotland, at a stretch.  But Burns a
poet?  Pull the other one - by that standard, the dude who writes the
stuff in Hallmark greeting cards is the world's best known poet.
From: mhr@aber.ac.uk (Michael Richards)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Free Trade (was Re: Currency Problems)
Date: 2 Oct 92 13:15:33 GMT
Organization: University of Wales, Aberystwyth


In article <JIM.92Oct1105400@hunter.cs.strath.ac.uk> jim@cs.strath.ac.uk 
(Jim Reid) writes:
>British Coal produces the cheapest deep mined coal in Western Europe.
>It's too simplistic to just compare the cost of domestic coal with
>imports. This ignores the impact on other economic factors - balance
>of payments, GDP, unemployment, and so on - as well as environmental
>considerations and the strategic issue of a stable, long-term energy
>source. It is insane for an island built on coal to be importing the
>stuff.

>Another point is that the biggest power stations are right next to
>British Coal's mines. The coal comes out the ground and straight into
>the power station. With imports, millions of tons of coal will have to
>be shipped by rail or road to these power stations.
power stations?

The cost of imports is surprisingly low, even when transport is added, The
Economist reported recently that it costs less to transport 100 000 tonnes
of low sulphur coal from Virginia than for British Rail to shift the same
amount from Selby to the Drax power stations.

					Mike.
-- 
* Mike Richards is always willing to spend his time discussing arcane topics  *
* and would much prefer to get mail from obscure places at strange hours than *
* work. So go on!!!! What are you waiting for? He's expecting your mail at    *
* the following address. ---------> mhr@aber.ac.uk <--------- Call now !!!    *
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,rec.arts.books
From: livesey@solntze.esd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)
Subject: Re: Enforced Shakespeare?
Organization: sgi
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 92 01:44:08 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.170016.20950@osf.org>, dbrooks@osf.org (David Brooks) writes:
|> In article <1992Sep30.162336.20876@cas.org>, jac54@cas.org () writes:
|> |> 	I take my cue from Vera Brittain's daughter's response
|> |> 	when TBW observed that children were leaving secondary
|> |> 	school unable to read or write.  She observed that all
|> |> 	children are supposed to be able to read and write when they
|> |> 	finish primary school.  (Guess who would have been Ministrix
|> |> 	for Education at the appropriate time.)
|> 
|> How about Shirley Williams?
|> 
|> You probably can't lay the blame at the door of one party (cue ancient
|> argument about forced comprehensivization).

You have to give them this: the comprehensive system
*did* bring every pupil to the same level.

jon.
From: mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: France, je vous remercie pour l'election d'Anti-Christ
Date: 5 Oct 92 08:07:25 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept, QMW, University of London, UK.

From: mickw@autodesk.com (Mick Washbrook)
>In article <1992Oct1.190901.17880@netcom.com>, sue@netcom.com (Sue Miller) writes:
>>
>> Lest you think I am one of these people that expects obsequious service
>> and "Have a Nice Day" constantly -- hardly!
>> I just think I should be treated with a modicum of respect by people
>> who are trying to get my money.
>
>Ah, but you're making the assumption that going shopping or out for
>dinner in Britain is supposed to be an enjoyable experience. It's
>not. You're supposed to sit through abominable service, get soup
>spilled on you, have rude waiters ignore you, and then--when you're
>asked if you've enjoyed your meal that tasted like polystyrene
>peanuts--reply, "Gosh! Rather!" Then you fork out two months'
>salary and stagger to the nearest vomitorium.

I don't think the British should be blamed for rude service in
British restaurants. In London at least both cooking and
service is invariably done by foreigners, quite often ones who
don't speak English.

Matthew Huntbach
From: jmunro@wyse.wyse.com (Jim Munro x2497)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: bad teeth
Date: 29 Sep 92 19:06:39 GMT
Organization: Wyse Technologies San Jose, Ca


OK, well let me add my experience too!

My father was a dental technician and as a result, I always got 'preferential'
treatment at the dentist while I was a child.

As with most people my age in England, by the time I was in my mid-twenties, I
had a mouth full of fillings, a couple of gaps, and a partial denture.

At my last visit, my dentist threatened that if one particularly troublesome
tooth gave any more trouble, then out it would come! HE was not willing
to attempt a root canal as this was 'too risky'. This was back in 1978 just
before emigrating to the states.

When I first visited a dentist here, I ended up spending a couple of thousand
dollars (plus whatever my insurance kicked in) and I have had no further
trouble with any of my teeth.  I have had numerous root canals, three bridges,
and a couple of crowns. My teeth have now been stable for 14 years.

All my friends in England wear dentures. Almost none of my friends here have ever had 
a tooth extracted, though many have had them straightened by orthodontia.

I think it well known that despite a 'free' or almost free dental service, that the
Brits have the worst teeth in the industrial world. This may be due to diet, but
I suspect the inferior dental treatment is part of it.

Hell, I didn't even get shown how to clean my teeth properly until I was thirty five
and as many will attest, dental floss is a relatively new thing in the UK.

Jim Munro
ZZ

ZZ

Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,rec.arts.books
From: livesey@solntze.esd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)
Subject: Re: Enforced Shakespeare?
Organization: sgi
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 22:40:43 GMT

In article <riaedwards.1.717853623@halls1.cc.monash.edu.au>, riaedwards@halls1.cc.monash.edu.au (AUDREY EDWARDS) writes:
|> In article <qfvg2gk@zola.esd.sgi.com> livesey@solntze.esd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:
|> 
|> >Why shouldn't it be rote learning *and* education.   I can still
|> >regurgitate hunks of Shakespeare, and I don't see that this 
|> >conflicts with education.
|> 
|> Repetition is not the same as comprehension (is this what 
|> differentiates us from parrots?? :-)  ). 

And non-sequiturs are not the same as answering a question.

I did not assert that repetition is the same as comprehension.
I asked if it conflicts with education.    I know chunks of 
Shakespeare because I was encouraged to learn it,  and I repeat 
it because I enjoy listening to great poetry at odd times.   It's 
the same reason that I've memorised chunks of Mozart, so that
I can play it in my head when I'm out running.   It's one of 
those handy little things that the human mind can do, and I see 
no reason not to do it.

I also, as I said in my first message, had talented teachers
that assisted us in comprehending what Shkaespeare was on about,
and how he fitted into his time.    

I see no conflict here.  I also don't see what's wrong with 
the examiners asking a question that says, in effect "You claim 
you've read this play, so go ahead, write a short essay about 
it, or answer some questions."     Maybe there's a larger issue 
here.   Are you just averse to testing?    Are you one of those 
people that think kids should be exposed to knowledge, but not 
tested on it?


|> 
|> >Is there some reason why testing conflicts with education?
|> 
|> Yes, when the simplistic testing method used in my time (i.e. 
|> timed closed-book essays on 'stock themes') encourage the 
|> regurgitation of the 'example answers' given in crib-books. 
|> Everyone knew that if you deviated from the norm, and attempted 
|> original thought,you would be penilised. As you did not even 
|> need to understand the crib-book to learn it off by heart, this 
|> is a  long way from *education*.

I'm not going to defend a straw man here.   You've erected a
nonsensical image of the testing system.  Maybe they told you
that you were obliged to regurgitate example answers: they 
certainly never told me that.

Maybe someone else you chime in here.   Is it really the case
that pupils are told to regurgitate the Cliff's Notes or
whatever, on pain of failing their O Levels?    God help us
all if that's so.

jon.
From: haverkam@uni-duesseldorf.de (Wilhelm Haverkamp)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Currency Problems
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 13:58:20 GMT
Organization: Universitaetsrechenzentrum, Heinrich-Heine-Universitaet Duesseldorf
NNTP-Posting-Host: haverkamp.rz.uni-duesseldorf.de

When I hear about comments in British newspapers
about currency problems I sometimes think that
the question of valuating a national currency
is somehow handled like a question of  victory
or defeat in former times.
It seems that the well-being of such a great nation
like the British depends on wheather the British Pound
is 2.80 DM or 3.12 DM. For my opinion that is a
completely unimportant question: in case of
devaluation the British exports to Germany will increase,
the import prices may become higher. 
For German companies it will become more difficult
to export goods to the UK. So what is the reason
that British papers and politicians are so upset?
Dipl.-Ing. W. Haverkamp       Haverkam@uni-duesseldorf.de
Universitaet Duesseldorf      T. +49- 211 - 311 3911
Universitaetsrechenzentrum    F. +49- 211 - 311 2539
Universitaetsstrasse 1
D- W4000 Duesseldorf 1
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: pault@ossi.com (Paul Taylor)
Subject: Re: Names of naughty politicians
Organization: Fujitsu America, Inc.
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 21:39:41 GMT

In article <Bvn9y8.G1n@scd.hp.com> tim%hpcpbla.bri.hp.com@hplb.hpl.hp.com writes:
>
>I'm setting up a cluster of workstations and it has been decreed that the
>hostnames will have a theme.  The weenies around here want to name them
>after characters from Startrek (yuk).  To counteract this I've come up 
>with the idea of politicians disgraced by scandal (the more sordid the better).
>I need your help with some more names. I have so far:
>
>Profumo
>Mellor
>Thorpe
>Archer
>Lucan (not a politician but the right flavour)
>
>There must be more so get out those back numbers of Private Eye (RIP) and 
>mail the names to me.  They don't strictly have to be politicians, any 
>pompous/famous git will do.
>
>Cheers,
>Tim Phipps.

Stonehouse
Parkinson
Rowlands
Colemanballs - for all the PE fans out there
Maxwell

Who was the politician from Yorkshire (I think) who got caught taking
bribes for land deals (Smith ?)

The friend of Harold Wilson who got mixed up in a deal with washing machines

There was also the person behind the precious metal (platinum) scandal in Aus

If you want to make this international we have
Idi-Amin
Nixon


Where is Lord Gnome when you need him...
-- 
  Paul Taylor pault@ossi.com
"Sometimes you get the bear, and other times the bear gets you.
I think we have just been gotten"
From: mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Currency Problems
Date: 30 Sep 92 08:20:34 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept, QMW, University of London, UK.

From: streater@unixjr.SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Tim Streater)
>P.Smee@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee) writes:
>>
>>(We're even importing COAL, for heaven's sake.  Even after the
>>devaluation, the government is planning to go ahead with the closure of
>>another bunch of British coal pits, and the power companies are
>>
>Certainly it should be imported given how much cheaper imported coal is. That
>will reduce the cost of energy to the consumer and to industry, which will
>improve people's standard of living (a bit) and make British industry more
>competitive. Isn't this a Good Thing?

Typical loony right thinking. The Thatcher/Major years have
been marked by various industries being closed down, blithely
dismissed with "it doesn't matter, imports are cheaper, so
we'll be better off". The trouble is the country does need to
have *something* to trade for its imports, if it doesn't the
currency will plummet in value, imports will become more
expensive, but unfortunately we can't go back to the home
produced product because the industry was wrecked (in the case
of coal, once a mine is closed down and no longer maintained,
it cannot be re-opened).

Of course the real costs of imports should include the
increased taxes necessary to make welfare payments to the
unemployed, to deal with all the crime and social problems and
general misery the unemployment has caused etc., but this
doesn't figure on the accountant's balance sheet - it's someone
else's problem.

One must also take into account issues of national security.
The more a country becomes dependent on imports, the more it is
afected by the vagaries of international politics. This country
was held to ransom by the oil producers in the 70s. Without our
own coal, we stand to be held to ransom by the coal producers
in the future. The Tories are the biggest hypocrites going for
numerous reasons, but here's yet another - they've continually
got elected by saying they're the party which is concerned for
defence, but everything they've done has increased foreign
domination of the country and reduced its independence. What is
the point of all the nuclear bombs they're so proud of, when
there's nothing left to defend, and the back door's left wide
open.

Matthew Huntbach
From: cockburn@edieng.enet.dec.com (Craig Cockburn)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Children in Pubs?
Date: 5 Oct 92 16:07:06 GMT
Article-I.D.: rdg.1992Oct5.160945.9471
Organization: Digital Equipment Co. Ltd., Reading, England


In article <1992Oct5.101329.28278@bristol.ac.uk>, smee@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee) writes...
>In article <BvMvJ1.Do0@comp.vuw.ac.nz> Francesco.Ballara@comp.vuw.ac.nz (devitt) writes:
>>My mother, my brother (aged 15) and I are going to Britain in January.
>>We thought 'pub lunches' might be a cheap and possibly nice way of gaining
>>nutrition.
>>
>>What is the age limit for entering pubs in Britain?
>>Can my 15 year old brother go into a pub, when accompanied by his
>>mother, in order to eat only?
> 
>I believe the magic number is 14, any advances?  (Now I've put in AN
>answer, someone will almost certainly put in the RIGHT aswer, if I'm
>wrong.)
> 
>Further, most pubs which do 'serious' food business will have a
>'family' room, or area, into which minors are allowed.  The basic rule
>is that kids can't be in an area where alcohol is sold; they can be in
>an area where it is consumed.  (I've always wondered about the
>psychology of that.  They're allowed to watch, for themselves, the
>'fun' which adults have drinking the stuff, but they're not allowed to
>be made aware that the grownups have to pay for it.)
> 

This is essentially correct, but beware that Scotland has different laws
regarding pubs.  The simple rule of thumb is to phone the pub first and
ask if it's OK. Sometimes the only children's area is the beer garden,
and it isn't much fun if it starts raining and the children can't come into
the pub. 

Craig


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Craig Cockburn, Digital Equipment Co. Ltd, Reading, England.     Suas
  Internet: cockburn@edieng.enet.dec.com                           leis
  UUCP:..!decwrl!edieng.enet.dec.com!cockburn                      a'
                                                                   Gha\idhlig!
  Views here are my own, and are not necessarily those of Digital