HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: awkerr@zia.aoc.nrao.edu (Alan Kerr)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: where food comes *from* (was: What's wrong with free-range eggs)
Date: 7 Oct 92 01:57:34 GMT
Organization: National Radio Astronomy Observatory, Socorro NM

In article <1992Oct6.190039.14576@indetech.com> janet@indetech.com (Janet Christian) writes:
>In article <6963@transfer.stratus.com> moser@sw.stratus.com (Tom Moser) writes:
>>Another argument which holds no weight is that most people do not associate
>>packaged meat with animals. I was at a local fair recently and we were
>>standing near a pen containing a few pigs. A family walked up and the father
>>said to his son (who looked to be about age 3) "Do you know what these are?".
>>The boy was not sure but he said he thought they were pigs. and his father said,
>>"That's right - that is where your bacon comes from". 
>>
>refuse to eat chicken when she learned this. The father of the small boy
>you describe above probably thought the same thing - that bacon comes from
>pigs - but not that bacon *is* pigs. I was horrified as a child to learn
>that we killed these warm furry (or feathery) things to eat. 

good point, Janet.  most children don't get to see a slaughter
happening.  What *do* thay get to see?

They get to see cows getting milked (on TV) and are told "milk comes
*from* cows".  They get to see chickens laying eggs (again, on TV) and
are told "eggs come *from* chickens".

So when a father says, "that's where bacon comes *from*", it sounds
like bacon is some other sort of product from an animal, NOT that is
*IS* an animal.  Same with most other meat.  That's right, this is
*not* "cow", this is "*beef*"!!  Most children are horrified (or at
least greatly impacted) when they finally make the connection that
"meat = dead critter".  I remember when I made the connection.... I
wasn't really 'horrified'- it was more of a feeling of "they *lied*!!"
This is NOT *from* a cow, this beef *IS* a cow, a dead one!

I've seen tours of dairies and egg farms on Childrens Public TV
showing where milk and eggs come from.  I haven't seen any tours of
slaughterhouses showing kids where 'bacon' comes *from*.  Is it to
hide the truth from kids?  ...or maybe the adults just can't deal with
the truth and would rather not be reminded of where some food comes
*from*.

Alan

-- 
Alan W. Kerr                               awkerr@zia.aoc.nrao.edu
National Radio Astronomy Observatory       awkerr@nrao.bitnet
Socorro, NM, USA                           uunet!nrao.edu!awkerr
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: georgec@eng.umd.edu (George B. Clark)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re:    A free opportunity to spout opinions!!
Date: 30 Sep 92 17:22:32 GMT
Article-I.D.: eng.1992Sep30.172232.29245
Organization: University of Maryland

In article <92272.174441JRUNNE@auvm.american.edu> <JRUNNE@auvm.american.edu> writes:
>
>1) Anyone else out there who's set up a vegetarian lifestyle in a conservative
>(ie read:  hard to find basics) town?
>
>2)  On a starving student budget?
>
>3)  Favorite cookbooks?

Since you and I live in the same city, I suggest you listen to Gabe Mirkin
at 980 am on the radio from 3-4pm each weekday. He's a vegetarian
medical doctor, and I learned much about diet from listening to him
over the years.

To save money, which seems to be your motive, simply include a lot of
dried beans, potatoes, and brown rice in your diet. Jane Brody's Nutrition
Book, though now several years old, is still a great source of nutrition
info that tells you how do it right.
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: RasGullas - Wanted recipe or this Indian sweet
From: R.Singh@massey.ac.nz (R. Singh)
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 03:46:01 GMT
Organization: Massey University
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

Out of all the Indian sweets this one seems to most elusive to make. Sure,
one can make something but it is nowhere near the commercial thing. I would
like to get the recipe if somebody has managed to make the Rasgullas like
the commercial ones.

Raminder Singh
From: alerman@terapin.com (Alexander Lerman)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Animals in Research
Date: 26 Sep 92 09:47:41 PST
Organization: BBS

In article <1a0199INN9qk@agate.berkeley.edu>, spp@zabriskie.berkeley.edu (Steve
Pope) writes:
>>I thought vegan was shorthand for vegetarian. Would someone be so kind as
>>to enlighten me?
>>
>>Jeff Achenbach
>>achenbac@epcot.spdc.ti.com
>
>A Vegan is an alien being, originating from either the third or
>seventh planet orbiting the star Vega.
>
>(just kidding).
>
>A "vegan" (pronounced vee-gin) is a person who eats no foods

The original British pronunciation is 'vee gun' (as in gun control)

I've also heard the following pronunciations... from vegans themselves!

vay gun (as in 'gun' control)

vejan (as in pl'edge an' oath)

vay jun (as in the word 'jun'k)

---

Take your pick and then stick by it as though your very intellectual,
emotional, and spiritual life depended on it's correctness.

My pronunciation is the origianl 'vee gun', although my John Cleese
impersonation is barely passable (i.e. I'm not British. I have an "American"
accent).

This issue has been the subject of a too-long thread not too long ago. Let that
be a warnin' to ya.


>derived in any way from animals -- thus, no cheese, milk,
>eggs or gelatin.  "strict vegetarian" is more or less 
>synonymous.
>
>Whereas a vegetarian who will eat eggs and dairy products, 
>but no meat or fish, is an "ovo-lacto vegetarian", or
>simply an "ovo-lactoid".  
>
>Steve

alex
<alerman@terapin.com>
From: JRUNNE@auvm.american.edu
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: A free opportunity to spout opinions!!
Date: 28 Sep 92 21:44:41 GMT
Organization: The American University - University Computing Center

Hey, all.  I am a 3rd-year law student, steeped in poverty.  I haven't  had
red meat in years, although I'd never considered a vegetarian diet before.
I used to use chicken and fish as my meats, and then had to start cutting out
most fish (except for tuna and sardines in cans) due to the outrageous cost
and low quality down here (our nation's capital).

Then, I recently discovered just how unsanitary the "affordable" farm-produced
chicken available was.  YUK!  GROSS!  Now, onto my problem...I was considering
becoming ovo-lacto (and occasionally pesco-) vegetarian.  Yes, I DO have
most of the Moosewood and Cabbagetown Cafe cookbooks.  But now:

1) Anyone else out there who's set up a vegetarian lifestyle in a conservative
(ie read:  hard to find basics) town?

2)  On a starving student budget?

3)  Favorite cookbooks?

4)  Necessary equipment?  Remember, I live in an efficiency with
NO (that's right, NO ) counterspace--I balance things on the "rib"
between the sink and the stove, and very very little storage space, almost
all used up.  No, make that all used up.  If I need new stuff, I'll hafta trash
some of my old.  Yes, I do need a wok.  I can probably ditch some of my ancient
gross Tupperware to make room for it, or say screw my landlady and put up
hook-nails for it.  Anything else, though?

5)  And, of course, any general hints (especially those to avoid "blobbing out"
by overdoing it on milk, cheese, and eggs to "make up" for the meat) would be
GREATLY appreciated...

Thanks in advance--feel free to reply directly, I check my account often...Hope
to hear from y'all soon!  ---Jen, the future  ovo-lacto veggie?
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: young@serum.kodak.com
Subject: Re: Ten reasons to avoid dairy products
Originator: young@sasquatch
Reply-To: young@serum.kodak.com
Organization: Clinical Diagnostics Division, Eastman Kodak Company
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 18:22:58 GMT

In article <1992Sep28.064221.13992@abo.fi> abulsari@abo.fi (Abhay Bulsari VT) writes:

>This is also from Michael Traub.
>
>WHAT'S WRONG WITH DAIRY PRODUCTS?

	Didn't we just go through this with Ferrell Wheeler?

[...]

>* Five: Cataracts
>     Cataracts are also linked to dairy products.6 The galactose  that
>is a breakdown product of lactose  also  appears to damage the lens of
>the  eye, leading to cataracts. There  are  other  factors which  also
>contribute to cataracts, such as ultraviolet light.

[...]

   GALACTOKINASE DEFICIENCY:

	An inability to metabolize galactose due to a deficiency of the
	enzyme galactokinase, INHERITED AS AN AUTOSOMAL RECESSIVE DEFECT.
	[...emphasis added...]

	The gene for this enzyme is located on the long arm of chromosome 17.
	As in the more common galactosemia, plasma and urinary galactose
	concentrations are elevated, but no GI or brain disturbances occur.
	Unless galactose is removed from the diet, cataracts develop rapidly
	because of the accumulation of galactitol in the lens.  Enzyme tests
	for galactose-l-phosphate uridyl transferase are normal, but
	galactokinase activity is absent in the erythrocytes.

   GALACTOSEMIA:

	A metabolic abnormality, INHERITED AS AN AUTOSOMAL RECESSIVE TRAIT,
	[...emphasis added...] involving conversion of galactose to glucose,
	caused by absence of the enzyme galactose-l-phosphate uridyl trans-
	ferase.

	The gene for this enzyme is located on the short arm of chromosome 9.
	In this disorder, galactose and galactose-l-phosphate accumulate in
	many tissues damaging them by interfering with their normal metabolic
	processes.  The incidence in Great Britain is about 1 in 80,000
	births, ....

	....The infant appears normal at birth, but within a few days of
	being fed with milk, ...the child becomes anorexic, vomits, ceases
	to grow, and becomes jaundiced....

	....If treatment is delayed, the child remains physically stunted
	and mentally retarded, and many have cataracts;.....

   REFERENCE: Merck Manual, 15th edition, 1987.

   This PCRM information may well be referring, in part, to rare, inherited
   metabolic disorders...the fact that normal, healthy people don't have
   these difficulties is something they don't bother to mention.  Cataracts
   are common with age and UV exposure has indeed been implicated.  Note
   that the supplied PCRM reference is 5 years older than the Merck Manual
   publication date.  [See below]

   Note, too, that ANY milk containing lactose or galactose would result in
   similar conditions in susceptible persons...even human milk.

>6. Simoons FJ. A geographic approach to senile cataracts: possible links
>with milk consumption, lactase activity, and galactose metabolism.
>Digestive Disease and Sciences 1982;27:257-64.



-Rich Young (These are not Kodak's opinions.)
From: CARIAN@auvm.american.edu
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Question on kosher gelatin
Date: 4 Oct 92 16:37:57 GMT
Article-I.D.: auvm.92278.123757CARIAN
Organization: The American University - University Computing Center

The question of Kosher Gelatin is long and complicated. In fact a whole
book has been written on the subject, "Gelatin and Jewish Law" by David
I. Sheinkopf.

Different certification agencies accept different standards. But it is
certainly possible for gelatin to be kosher and made from animal parts,
even the parts of non-kosher animals.

How so? There are two principles at work:

1.) Davar Chadash: "a new thing." The substance has gone through a chemical
change and is thus not considered related to the original product from which
it was derived. This is a controversial principle in Kosher Food Laws and
not universally accepted.

2.) Nifsal Me-Achilat Kelev: "unfit for canine consumption." Something which
has lost its status as food and is therefore neither kosher nor non-kosher.
Once something has lost its status as food it does not regain it even if
subsequently in fact consumed. The claim here is that the bones and sinews
lose their status of food in the processing and thus are in essence
exempted from the purview of the Kosher laws. This is a much less
controversial concept.

Gelatin made from fish, of course, is kosher and parve (neither meat nor
dairy) without question, as long as the fish is a kosher species.

In short, gelatin which is certified as Kosher cannot automatically be
assumed vegetarian as well.

Rabbi Charles Arian
CARIAN@american.edu
Newsgroups:   rec.food.veg
From:         loc@yrloc.ipsa.reuter.COM (Leigh Clayton)
Subject:      re: List of participants (Version 8)
X-Telephone:  +1 (416) 364-5361 Fax +1 (416) 364-2910 Telex 0622259
Organization: Reuters APL Software Division
X-Mail:       1900/2 First Canadian Place, Toronto, Canada, M5X 1E3
Date:          2 Oct 92 18:13:07 UT

 One entry you have wrong:


Michael Traub     Fairly militant, sometime gullible newage practitioner,
                  usually quite upfront about his own opinions at least.
                  (No offence, Michael, if you read this -- you're welcome
                  to your own opinions and the right to post them, as far
                  as I'm concerned).
                  Chooses not to post in this forum anymore.

 One entry you've missed:

A. Bulsari        Injects majority of postings into this forum, never
                  expresses own opinion, but passes on hundreds of reposts
                  each week filled with new-age drivel, pseudoscientific
                  misinformation, and 2nd or 3rd hand garbage from people who
                  choose not to post themselves.


 I'm sorry to sound so offensive, but until quite recently I thought that this
group served a purpose. Most vegetarians are health-conscious but sensible
people, perhaps with a slightly moral bent, who lead otherwise normal lives and
who are no more likely to be taken in by health gurus and outright frauds than
any other segment of the population. We used to exchange recipes, lifestyle
hints, the occasional bit of news about nutrition and even some mild jabs at
ourselves (how I miss the Fruitbat!).

 The recent tone of this group is frankly enough to make any sensible person
who is just considering the idea of becoming vegetarian give serious rethought
to the idea, on the grounds that it's clearly a predisposing factor for
terminal mental degradation. I don't blame you exclusively, but all these
reposts contribute. I also don't care for your list of contributors. No other
group feels the need (as far as I know anyway) for such a thing, and I think
it is a very damaging idea: the next logical step is to moderate the group (I
presume you'll volunteer to be moderator) and require list membership to get
a post published.

 Have a nice day .../Leigh

--------------------------------------------------------
It's only work if somebody makes you do it    .../Calvin
--------------------------------------------------------
Leigh Clayton                  loc@yrloc.ipsa.reuter.COM
    -or-                     loc@ipsaint.ipsa.reuter.COM
From: border@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Ryan A. Border)
Subject: Re: cow's milk
Keywords: new report
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 17:42:23 GMT

zedaker@next08wor.wam.umd.edu (Pamela Marie Weller) writes:

>	Does anyone have an opinion on the new report on cow's milk by the  
>Johns Hopkins University, et. al. ( also includes Dr. Spock )?
>
>	The Dairy Council doesn't like it! Well, screw 'em!  
>

>				Pam

What I found most entertaining were the reactions from the dairy
industry that all the networks felt obligated to show in the interest 
of being 'balanced'.  Did anyone else think that these guys started to
sound a lot like tobacco industry spokesmen?  Rather than trying to 
refute the study, all they could come up with were personal attacks on
the people presenting their data "radical vegetarian extremists, with
ties to the animal rights movement...".  Or even better, was a guy I saw
who went into a tirade about how this study was just a step in some
conspiracy to deny the American people the freedom to eat what they want...

When I see these kinds of reactions (I am a ovo-laco veg) it tells
me that there must be something to these findings.  After all, if the
dairy industry had some evidence to refute the claims made by this study,
certainly, yesterdays media blitz was the time to come out with it.  When
the best they are able to produce are (foolish IMO) personal attacks and 
scare tactics, it says to me that they must be unable to dispute the 
actual study itself.

I wonder how many other viewers saw these reactions and came to similar 
conclusions?
_______________________________________________________________________________
* Ryan A. Border               border@nas.nasa.gov,   border@craywr.cray.com  *
* Cray Research Inc., On Site Applications Analyst 415-604-4633  o__ o__      *
* Numerical Aerodynamic Simulator, NASA Ames Research Center    _.>/-.>/'_    *
* Never trust someone who can count to 1023 on their fingers.  ( ) \---\(*)...*
==============================================================================*

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: ksouth@iguana.dsd.es.com (Kerri South)
Subject: substitutes for dairy products
Reply-To: ksouth@dsd.es.com
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp.
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 17:21:24 GMT

I eat a lot of dairy products, in particular, skim milk and lowfat yogurt.
I've cut way back on cheese, because it's so high in fat. What would be
a lowfat, non-dairy replacement for yogurt in my diet? I eat yogurt 
primarily for snacks. It's easy to grab when I'm hungry and trying to
prevent my blood sugar from dipping too low.

-- 
Kerri South, Evans & Sutherland Computer Corporation
Design Systems Division, P.O. Box 8070, 
Salt Lake City, Utah 84108        (801) 582-5847 
INET: ksouth@dsd.es.com
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: cs311113@umbc5.umbc.edu (cs311113)
Subject: Interesting..
Organization: Univ. of MD, Baltimore County
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 14:48:13 GMT

I had an interesting experience the other day.. I was talking to someone in
one of my classes and the topic of food came up.  Well, when this girl found
out I was a veggie, she was silent.  Eventually she spoke up and said that
I was the first real life veggie that she had met.

Hm.. I guess its not a big lifestyle in my area, huh?  I could tell by the
food at my school... lets see.. there is grilled cheese (cooked on the same
grill as hamburgers, bacon, etc..), or cheese pizza.  Its always nice to
get a little variety in the diet, isn't it?

Paul..



-- 

"If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting them down?
 We might, if they screamed for no reason."
From: jenny@dbrus.Unify.Com (Jennifer Zheng)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: World Vegetarian Day in the city of Angels?
Date: 30 Sep 92 18:08:09 GMT
Organization: /usr/lib/news/organization

Anybody know of any celebrations/activities in Los Angeles area during
the weekend?

jen
				Proud driver of the copper Univega; wanna ride?
     o~__        o~		B. Jennifer Zheng,	916-649-3576
     ,> <       /|>		jenny@unify.com,	1 down, 35 to go!
     O   O      < \		Ride Bike.		13 down, 9 to go!
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: akcobb@unix.amherst.edu (acapella)
Subject: Re: Kosher gelatin
Organization: Amherst College
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 01:18:33 GMT

A similar thread took place last spring some time, and I remember
that someone said that kosher gelatin could, in fact, be made from
animals.  The thinking was something along the lines that there is
so much processing done to the animal bones to make gelatin, that
even though it ended up in (milk-based) yogurt, it did not violate
the milk-meat rule.  So the upshot was that one can't really be 
sure that kosher gelatin is vegetarian.  Better to look for
products that explicitly say "agar-agar."  (Which are not that common.)

Anyone remember this, and/or have any further knowledge on the matter?

Amy
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: nancy@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Nancy Lebovitz)
Subject: Re: becoming vegan
Organization: UDel, School of Life & Health Sciences
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 17:50:09 GMT

In article <1992Sep26.234704.25740@leland.Stanford.EDU> coleman@leland.Stanford.EDU (Michele Coleman) writes:
>In article <1992Sep24.214230.21495@gmuvax2.gmu.edu> amcmicha@gmuvax2.gmu.edu (Andrew McMichael) writes:
>>I recently reduced myself from an ovo- to a lacto- diet.
>>I found, however, that I natuarlly have cut back on my
>>lacto- intake.  I used to drink a quart or so of milk
>>a day, along with yoghurt. Now, I'd be surprised if I drank
>>that much milk in a week, and eat no yoghurt.  Has anyone else
>>noticed this phenomenon [in themselves]?

I'm not sure if this is what you're looking for, but I liked milk quite
a bit when I was a kid. As I passed 20 or so, I gradually and unconsciously
drank less and less of it. Eventually, I heard of lactose intolerance and
realized that I have a mild case of it. I also don't like cheese as much
as I used to--sometimes all I can taste in it is fat and salt. On the
other hand, I still like meat, and I'm not sure if you were asking 
about losing a taste for dairy as a result of cutting back on
animal products. 


Xref: sparky rec.food.veg:9359 news.answers:3300
From: hans@Software.Mitel.COM (Hans Johnsen)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: A plea for valid arguements
Date: 6 Oct 92 12:14:28 GMT
Organization: Mitel. Kanata (Ontario). Canada.

tms@cs.umd.edu (Tom Swiss (not Swift, not Suiss, Swiss!)) writes:
>     The dairy industry would have us beleive that milk is _essential_
>for health and survival. The argument that no other species drinks
>milk past infancy is the quickest, most direct way of demolishing that
>lie. They used to run ads saying "Why do I drink milk? Because I'm a
>mammal, dude!" Well, act like it then.

In Canada (pronounced KEY-an-a-da ;^) lately, the dairy marketting
board has these commercials on that feature a baby and half naked mother
and go something like: "Cholesterol is not a dangerous poison, in fact 
it is a building block for all(sic) life. That's why nature made it
a part of so many(sic) foods, including mother's milk."

Every time I see these commercials, I want to scream. The problem with
them is that everything they say is true (except the noted exaggerations
above). The implication is that cholesterol is therefore a
necessary part of the diet, which is of course completely bogus. Does 
anyone out there know how a person could go about doing something
about this misleading advertising (remember that this is Canada, not the US)?
-- 
Take off all your clothes and walk down the street waving a machete
and firing an Uzi, and terrified citizens will phone the police and
report: "There's a naked person outside!" - Mike Nichols
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: abulsari@abo.fi (Abhay Bulsari VT)
Subject: Which soft drinks are vegan/vegetarian ?
Organization: Abo Akademi University
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 07:34:29 GMT

In the past years, I have consumed litres of soft drinks like
Sprite, Pepsi, etc. but have grown more aware of all kinds of
chemicals and animals that possibly go into their manufacture.
Does someone here know what soft drinks are vegan or vegetarian ?

How about mineral water ? Are there chemicals of animal origin
in it ?

Thanks,


-- 
A. Bulsari                                       Tel.  358 (21) 654 721
V{rmeteknik, ]bo Akademi                         Fax   358 (21) 654 792
Va"rmeteknik, A'bo Akademi   (for the non-Scandinavian screen impaired)
SF 20500 Turku, Finland                          Tlx  57 62301 AABIB SF