From: sidi@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Sadiq Yusuf)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.cricket
Subject: In the defense (was Re: Vinod Kambli
Date: 11 Nov 92 01:49:21 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.1992Nov11.014921.3290
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.


	There are many points that could be made in this article, but since
this was discussed specifically in the context of Bombay, I thought I'd
give a pure Bombay's POV on it.

In article <5NOV199221285893@utarlg.uta.edu> d188sid@utarlg.uta.edu (S RAMACHANDRAN) writes:

>W.V.Raman has been far more consistent in Domestic cricket than Kambli 
>has and moreover Raman has been pretty good in the limited chances he 
>has got. Further comment on axeing raman should be reserved until after
>the S.A tour is over and he is evaluated.

	Well, I don't know. First of all, performing on Indian tracks
against pretty shabby opposition in the Ranji's , where every other batsman
gets  a century, ought not to be the only criteria for international
selection. I mean, Raman Lamba is as much of a scorer in the Ranji's as
anyone, but I'd hate to see him in the Indian test side again. ANd anyway,
I don't believe anyone could have a much better Ranji season than Kambli
had last year - he seemed to be getting a century every time out. 
	As the evaluation part, I agree that this is Raman's big and
possibly last chance. However, I disagree that he's been "pretty good" in
all the chances he's been given. As I've said before , chances are not just
test matches and ODI's, they're tours as well. If you're taken on a tour,
play three 4 day games , and don't score anything at all, you wont make the
test side on that tour. However, I dont think that ought to be considered
not being given a chance - that's a failure ! ( Note : iam not saying
that's always been the case with Raman - he was pretty good in England in
the games against the counties tho everyone was good that summer. However,
he did go to WI and did pretty poorly in the international games there) 
	And also, Raman's record is not great - not bad, but not what I'd
call "pretty good". He's played 6 tests, and has an average of 33.x ,
nothing spectacular. And he's played about 20 ODI's (don't have the figures
with me, could get them tho), and averaged approx. 20.xx for 300odd runs.He's
also taken 2 wickets, at an average of 72 odd, and over 6 runs an over.
None of this is terrific. As for chances, he did well in England in the
county games but could not crack the side as Siddhu was also doing very
well in the county games (he was failing in the tests, but was doing fine
in the county games). He was then taken to Sarjah, where he failed . Thus,
he was dropped from the side to Australia. Pretty straightforward, really. 


>I think had W.V.Raman been a Bombayite he would have got a better deal 
>from the selectors. He was dropped after making 83 on debut in Madras
>against W.I and Winston Davis, Patterson and Walsh. Believe me if a 
>Bombay player made 83 on debut all hell would break loose if he were 
>dropped the next match. Raman made a couple of good 50's in NZ ..and since 
>then he was given a proper deal. Bombay cricketers like Kambli,Bahutule,
>Kuruvilla get fantastic press and support from D.B.Veng,S.M.G,etc etc...
>but T.N players don't have someone w/ enormous clout saying good things abt
>them. I am not saying Bombay players are being " pushed" unfairly b'cos
>you sometimes need all the help you can get but T.N players often don't
>have this advantage. Despite that Raman has shown tremendous promise and
>some of the players have commented thus:
>

	I disagree . Iam not absolutely sure about the chronology here, but
was Raman dropped for the next game after making 83 ?? As far as I
remember, we went to WI after that series at home, and Raman did go along -
and failed pretty badly. Again, he has a few good scores, but is still
averaging only 33.x in 6 tests ( Pandit, in 3-4 tests played before he
finally got a bit of a chance in Australia last year, was averaging 35.00),
and 20.x in ODI's. ALso, he's got something like 300 odd runs in ODI's, and
95 of them came in one inning. It's not like he's had a glaringly
triumphant career so far, and is being neglected despite it. 
	Now, there are lots of Bombayites who could give you entire lists
of players from Bombay who were given a raw deal. Heck, I could name a few
myself :-) ( Zulfikar Parkar, Raju Kulkarni etc) . Talking about debuts,
Kulkarni made his in Bombay, being called up early morning of the test
because of injuries. I saw him bowl his heart out against the Australians,
the lone ranger for the Indian attack - Kapil was injured. He was downright
fearsome at times, that was when he was India's fastest bowler by a mile.
Those bouncers he bowled at Border .. well. ANyway, at a time when India
was desparately looking for pacemen, he took 3-76 in that inning, and had 2
catches dropped off his bowling ( Mohinder, I remember, dropped a sitter).
He wasn't considered again , for a couple of years !! This, remember, was
the time when India was crying out for a fast bowler, _any_ fast bowler.
Kapil was in his period of decline (yes, there was one. He's rejuvenated
only in the last couple of years), and we tried all sorts of people
(Bharati Arun, for one !). And the fastest bowler in the country was
studiously  ignored. In my book (purely IMHO), there is no one, I repeat,
_no one_ who has been that shabbily treated in modern times - no, not even
Kambli who was dropped after top scoring in the previous match, when
thrown in as a makeshift opener against an attack of Akram, Waqar and
Javed, in what was only his 3rd international .  
	Rather than bias for Bombay players, there is often a bias against
them ! This isn't because of any great conspiracy, but simply because of
the quota system - there has to be someone from every zone, and not an
overwhelming number from any one zone. Why was Kambli dropped from the
Australian tour, and then personally called by the Chairman of BCCI ?
Because, despite his terrrifc performance in the previous games (Sarjah),
there had to be an extra representative from the East (Ganguly). Now,
Ganguly is a very talented player, but he was clearly pushed in over his
head and far too early in Australia - clearly Kambli ought to have gone in
his place. 
	As for the influence and write-up factor, it doesn't seem to work
very well for the Bombay guys right now, does it ? :-) ( Bahutule, BTW,
hasn't been written up very much at all. Its only on the net that he's
mentioned at all - that was because we were discussing the Bombay Ranji
team last year and I talked about this 19 year old leggie. He's clearly not
a contender for the test side - he just played his first Duleep game - and
got 1 for 20 odd in 10 overs) . As for the others, here we have Venkatesh
prasad being considered seriously for the Indian side, when he took all
of 11 wickets in his first 2 Ranji seasons, and then 11 in 2 Duleep games
(which is good). Kuruvilla, OTOH, had 35 wickets in the Ranji's last year,
and 11 in the Duleep semis at Valsad. And Ankola was clearly the best
paceman on performance and form this season, but failed to make even the
Irani Trophy team. No matter how much promise Prasad shows, should he not
have to demonstrate performance in the national championships before being
the one next-in-line for the test side ??  So, why is Prasad the top
contender for the test side ? Because people see a lot of promise in him
(true), and he will be good in the future when more experienced (BTW,
shouldn't that experience be gained domestically, rather than as a member
of a 16 replacing someone who could help the team NOW ?). But more
importantly, because he's being pushed _hard_ by R.Mohan ! I mean, he had
like 3 wickets in the Duleep semis, and maybe 1 or 2 in tHe Irani, (this
while Ankola had 9 in the Duleeps), and was "unlucky" to miss the 16 ! 
	Now, none of what I've said is to denigrate any particular player,
or extol another. I may not be a great Raman fan (tho I think he's an
attractive bat. I just don't think he can open at the highest level with
any success - tho I would love to be proved wrong). I think Venkatesh
Prasad could be our next really good paceman - just not right now (he's
much too raw, and hasn't produced). And ,while I confess to being a big
Kulkarni fan (and still burned about the way he was treated), old net hands
will remember that Iam not a Kambli fan. In fact, I argued (and still do),
that Amre would be a better test middle order bat than Kambli now, even if
Kambli possesses more talent. I just think that our selection process has
long been screwed up, at all levels of the game - a lot of it having to do
with the quota system. And I believe Bombay cricketers have suffered rather
than benefited because of it. 


>S.M.Gavaskar- " Raman has one of the best cover drives in the country..
>he should be pushing Ravi shastri for contenders of the top all-rounders 
>spot" - after 93 by Raman and 5 wkt haul in the Irani final in 1985-86.
>
	Actually, I hoped the same thing (was downright annoyed at
Shastri's swollen head at about this time ), but when was the last time
Raman got _any_ wickets whatsoever ?? I mean, when did he last take 3
wickets in an inning even in the Ranji's, even against the weaker teams?
He's just abandoned his bowling. And anyway, the top all-rounders spot is
forever reserved for a certain player from Haryana, whether SMG likes it or
not :-) :-) :-)

>Viv Richards- " S.Manjrekar, N.Hirwani and W.V.Raman seem exciting
>and promising players..." - after Final test in Madras 1989 and end of 
>series.
>
	It did seem like it at the time. But, just after the Australian
tour, it seemed like Vivvy was wrong on all three counts :-) :-) 


	Sadiq [ lead soldier - Bombay Bombing Brigade :-) ] Yusuf

>
>
>---That's all for now---
>
>sidd.ramachandran 
>
>
Organization: Freshman, IM - H&SS Track, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA