HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: learn@speedy.acns.nwu.edu (William J. Vajk)
Subject: Re: Hey EFF: howbout creating...
Organization: Dares No Organization Like Dis Organization
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 18:49:10 GMT

In article <CKD.92Aug14191540@loiosh.eff.org> Christopher Davis writes:

>Jim> == Jim Lynch <jimlynch@netcom.com> 

> Jim> ...a new mailing list for those who want to discuss copyright and USENET?

> Jim> Reason: EFF encompasses more than the net.

>comp.org.eff.talk, and by extension the eff-talk gateway, are an
>unmoderated forum, and as such tend to have these long, drawn-out,
>marginally related discussions every so often.

Anyone with access to a regular (eg non menu-limited acount) can set
up a mail list.

>(Hey, you think you've got it bad, I'm seeing other, unattached chunks
>of this discussion in news.admin, misc.legal.computing, and elsewhere...)

How much EFF relevant discussion has gone on in this newsgroup ? No detail
necessary, just a percentage of the total number of articles since the
beginning of this conference. Copyright & Usenet probably comes a lot closer
to a real frontier issue (tm) than the bulk of the articles of late.

Bill Vajk

Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk
From: mc/G=Brad/S=Hicks/OU=0205925@mhs.attmail.com
Subject: Re- Dept. of Justice vs. IN
Originator: daemon@eff.org
Organization: EFF mail-news gateway
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 13:51:04 GMT

Date: 8/13/92   9:23 AM
Subj: Re: Dept. of Justice vs. INSLAW?
 
> does anyone have any info on the US Dept. of Justice circulating INSLAW
> software. I caught the tail end of an NBC news blurb about it
 
It's dangerous to ask too many questions about Inslaw vs. U.S. ... as
Danny Castolaro would tell you now, if he could.  :-(
 
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------
 J. Brad Hicks                 | Poor is the man whose pleasures depend
 mhs!mc!Brad_Hicks@attmail.com | on the permission of another.
From: cblandy@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Chris Blandy)
Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk
Subject: Re: Need e-mail address for 2600 mag
Date: 20 Aug 92 20:15:11 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin

In article <hhll.714038365@milton> hhll@milton.u.washington.edu (Steven Hodas) writes:
>
>I need the e-mail address for 2600 magazine. Anyone have it?
>
>Steven

2600@well.sf.ca.us

Chris

-- 
                 Chris Blandy        |       Computer Science major
          cblandy@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu | The University of Texas at Austin

Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk
From: jimlynch@netcom.com (Jim Lynch)
Subject: Hey EFF: howbout creating...
Originator: daemon@eff.org
Organization: EFF mail-news gateway
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 22:22:55 GMT

...a new mailing list for those who want to discuss copyright and USENET?

Reason: EFF encompasses more than the net.

-Jim Lynch (jimlynch@netcom.com)
Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk
From: jimlynch@netcom.com (Jim Lynch)
Subject: Re: Why we need a "Copyright: " field (was: Re: NetNews/CD  .  .  .)
Originator: daemon@eff.org
Organization: EFF mail-news gateway
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 17:16:28 GMT

Bill Sohl (whs70@dancer.cc.bellcore.com) sed:
Quote >>>>>>>>>>>>>
Consideration does NOT need to be a financial payment.  Consideration
for the network is being allowed to send the post whereever the
network goes.  In essence, it is the right, implied by the act of posting,
to reproduce the post throughout the network.  The value to the network
is in being able to make the post available.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< UnQuote.

I find myself in agreement Bill as it is the nature of the netBeast to send
a post wherever the net goes.

When I post, I am always willing to grant the net the right to make the post
available on the net in exchange for the distribution power.

However, I'm not willing, in general, to sacrafice any other rights that I
might have, i.e., I am not 'giving' the net my post unless the net also wants
to take on the responsibility of ownership, which I don't believe it does.

Jim Lynch (jimlynch@netcom.com)
Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk,alt.allsysop,alt.bbs.ads
From: rdippold@cancun.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold)
Subject: Re: Want _Your_ Blood to Boil too?
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 07:09:21 GMT

zstewart@nyx.cs.du.edu (Zhahai Stewart) writes:
>could as well say they sieze houses by force in order to kill babies.  But
>looking deeper, all contract law between private parties ultimately relies
>on invoking government force to enforce the terms (otherwise the other
>party can just thumb their nose at the wronged party), so all public and
>private legal contracts likewise rely on the government's armed force.  

Only if you assume that all contracts are made in bad faith.  And, if
one of the parties might be inclined to fraud, there's also no need to
involve the government if the consequences for violating the contract
are severe enough - government isn't the only one who can enforce a
contract.  The government makes things easier when dealing with a
complete unknown of equal or greater strength - amazingly enough the
same role that private parties have played as neutral third parties.
They're still useful in cases where the government doesn't cover the
situation, or in certain international deals.


>Thus any use of private contracts is a use of violent force.  All of these
>lines of reasoning are worth less than the phosphor on which they are
>written.  Taxes are theft if private contract enforcement is theft; 
>tautologies do not enlighten us.

Ernt.  Another strayed metaphor gone rotten.



>I hope that discussion of public schools can be on a more informed level
>than this. / ~z~

One would hope so.
-- 
Avert misunderstanding by calm, poise, and a .44 magnum.
Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk
From: mc/G=Brad/S=Hicks/OU=0205925@mhs.attmail.com
Subject: Re- posting copyrighted mat
Originator: daemon@eff.org
Organization: EFF mail-news gateway
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 13:32:39 GMT

Date: 8/12/92   9:02 AM
Subj: Re: posting copyrighted material
 
Martha asked:
 
> Just a quibble - would a modern edition of Shakespeare or the Bible be
> completely uncopyrightable?
 
SHAKESPEARE:  All of the folios are in the public domain, so version is a
non-issue.  As for format, spelling, punctuation, well, I guess you'd be
on very, very shaky grounds to just shoot plates off of somebody's
published edition and reprint it, but if you took (for example) the
version that ships on the NeXT's big drive (does it still?), shot it out
to print, and published it, you'd be safe as houses.  I think.  In any
case, you can quote as much of it as you like ad infinitum.
 
THE CHRISTIAN BIBLE.  The =King James Version= is in the public domain.
I'm not sure about the Revised Standard Version, but I doubt it.  So far
as I know, ALL other translations are copyrighted to the translators.
(Hmm.  When I get home, I'll dig out my Greek New Testament and see if
IT's copyrighted; if it is, it's probably based on compilation, since
there are lots of conflicting fragments.)  The Living Bible and the New
International Version are rumored to be particularly thorough at cracking
down on violators.
 
Again, this is not legal advice, in part because I'm not a lawyer, just a
guy who's bumped up against copyright law lots of times.
 
 ----------
 J. Brad Hicks
 Internet: mhs!mc!Brad_Hicks@attmail.com
 X.400:    c=US admd=ATTmail prmd=MasterCard sn=Hicks gn=Brad
 
I am not an official MasterCard spokesperson, and the message above does
not
contain official MasterCard statements or policies.
From: mpython@wookumz.gnu.ai.mit.edu (... and the flying circus)
Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk
Subject: Dept. of Justice vs. INSLAW?
Date: 13 Aug 92 07:09:09 GMT
Distribution: comp
Organization: Worcester Discordian Society, Cabal of the Unemployed


does anyone have any info on the US Dept. of Justice circulating
INSLAW software. I caught the tail end of an NBC news blurb about it

						jer
--
     And now...Marcel Marceau will mime 		   ************
 A man being struck about the head by a 16 ton weight     *    1 6     *
If the telephone rings today, water it	  -><-		 *   T O N S    *
 I-net: MPYTHON@gnu.ai.mit.edu |there is NO rule #6	******************
Common sense is what tells you that the earth is flat...
Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk
From: hrose@eff.org (Helen Trillian Rose)
Subject: Re: EFF ftp site?
Organization: The Evil Fascist IRC Admins From Hell, Inc.
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 19:55:56 GMT

Kathryn> == Kathryn Henniss <henniss@Csli.Stanford.EDU> 

 Kathryn> Sorry to add noise to this group, but could someone send me
 Kathryn> (or post) the name of the ftp site where old EFF newsletters
 Kathryn> and other articles is kept?  I had it, then I lost it.

ftp.eff.org -- EFF specific information is kept in the "pub/EFF"
directory.

The IP address (for those of you with brain-dead or nonexistent
name-servers) is 192.88.144.4

--Helen


--
Helen Trillian Rose             	email eff@eff.org for EFF info
Electronic Frontier Foundation   	irc operators: operlist@eff.org
Systems and Networks Administration	Flames to: 
<hrose@eff.org, hrose@cs.bu.edu>	women-not-to-be-messed-with@eff.org
Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk
From: mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin)
Subject: Re: Using cryptography
Originator: mnemonic@eff.org
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 17:38:03 GMT

In article <7845@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU> ygoland@edison.seas.ucla.edu (The Jester) writes:
>As a member of EFF (with a spiffy new t-shirt I might add!) I'd like
>to publicly ask:Where does EFF stand on the issue of government
>regulation of Ecryption with specific attention to the issues of
>Import/Export regulations (and their chilling effect on secured
>international communications via internet) and Government attempts
>to force the release of keys or weakning of cryptographic systems
>via law (re:the latest round of bills in the house regarding 'built
>in weakness' to cryptographic systems)?

As we have stated before, we are opposed to these and other restrictions
on the use and development of cryptography.

>In addition, what activitites, if any, has EFF involved itself in or
>allied itself with regarding these areas?

We write about it, and our Washington office talks to legislators and
other policymakers.


--Mike




-- 
Mike Godwin,    |"If there is a bedrock principle underlying the First
mnemonic@eff.org| Amendment, it is that the government may not prohibit 
(617) 864-0665  | the expression of an idea simply because society finds 
EFF, Cambridge  | the idea itself offensive or disagreeable." --W. Brennan
Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk
From: keithf@pacifier.rain.com (Keith Furrow)
Subject: LOD T-shirts HELP WANTED!
Organization: Pacifier BBS
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 21:46:30 GMT


PPLEASE help me!  I posted an article and like my check that was cashed I got
no response!  I would greatly appriciate someone sending me Chris Goggin's 
Phone # or Mail box address!  Or a reply from him would help also!
 
-- 
  _____                                                              _____
 /  o  \  ||Mutants for Nuclear Power||keithf@pacifier.rain.com ||  /  o  \
< \___/ > ||-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_|| < \___/ >
 \_____/  ||   Radioactive waste, Glowing stronger every day!   ||  \_____/
Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk,alt.allsysop,alt.bbs.ads,co.general,nyx.misc,alt.bbs.allsysop,comp.bbs.misc,du.misc,alt.activism
From: g92e1818@giraffe.ru.ac.za (MR R S EDWARDS)
Subject: Re: The Last Straw
Organization: Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 21:35:21 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.001239.197998@zeus.calpoly.edu> cambler@zeus.calpoly.edu (Christopher J. Ambler, Phish) writes:
>Xref: hippo comp.org.eff.talk:3755 alt.allsysop:33 alt.bbs.ads:642 alt.bbs.allsysop:254 comp.bbs.misc:453 alt.activism:10037
>Path: hippo!psgrain!uunet!olivea!decwrl!csus.edu!beach.csulb.edu!nic.csu.net!koko.csustan.edu!rat!zeus!cambler
>From: cambler@zeus.calpoly.edu (Christopher J. Ambler, Phish)
>Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk,alt.allsysop,alt.bbs.ads,co.general,nyx.misc,alt.bbs.allsysop,comp.bbs.misc,du.misc,alt.activism
>Subject: Re: The Last Straw
>Message-ID: <1992Aug12.001239.197998@zeus.calpoly.edu>
>Date: 12 Aug 92 00:12:39 GMT
>References: <1992Aug11.205034.25599@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>
>Distribution: usa
>Organization: Fantasy, Incorporated: Reality None of Our Business.
>Lines: 9

>You MUST be kidding.

>Someone please give Mr. Rogers a biscuit and put him back in his cage.

>-- 
>If you insist upon living in a  | cambler@zeus.calpoly.edu | Fubar Systems BBS
>dream, you may be taken as mad. |                          | (805) 54-FUBAR
>  I like my dream.              | Because all you of       | 3/12/24, MNP5, 8N1
>Then you *are* mad!             | Earth are IDIOTS!!       | FSBBS 2/FSUUCP 1.3

Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk
From: randy@chinet.chi.il.us (Randy Suess)
Subject: Re: EFF Receives Dvorak/Zoom Award
Organization: Chinet - Public Access UNIX
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 20:27:34 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.195655.6143@eff.org> rita@eff.org (Rita Marie Rouvalis) writes:
>    EFF AWARDED DVORAK/ZOOM AWARD FOR EXCELLENCE IN TELECOMMUNICATIONS
>                     AT ONE BBSCON IN DENVER
>  Also honored in the awards ceremony were:
>      Ward Christensen and Randy Seuss for BBS 1

	Please, the name is Suess.  Seuss is a made-up name by a dead
	cat lover.

-- 
	I am created Shiva the Destroyer; Death, the shatterer of worlds!
	Who is this dog meat who stands before me now?
	That's the biz, sweetheart.
Randy Suess					 randy@chinet.chi.il.us
Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk
From: jimlynch@netcom.com (Jim Lynch)
Subject: Here's another solution to the copyright "problem"
Originator: daemon@eff.org
Organization: EFF mail-news gateway
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 07:04:02 GMT

Have the "Copyright:" field.

The first release of the net software that receives mail & news would look for the "Copyright:" field, and if present _reject_ the item.

Satisfied? You who want automatic copyright enforcement have made your
attempt to destroy USENET; I have provided a solution here which keeps
the internet alive and free. (and in TWO PARAGRAPHS!!)
Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk,alt.allsysop,alt.bbs.ads,co.general,nyx.misc,alt.bbs.allsysop,comp.bbs.misc,du.misc
From: joet@dcatlas.dot.gov (Joe Trott)
Subject: Re: Want _Your_ Blood to Boil too?
Organization: U.S Dept. of Transportation
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 12:41:03 GMT


Hmm, I had/have no intention of starting a flamewar, but a rational debate,
certainly.

Yes, the government does indeed take by force.  They may call it an income
tax, but that is just extortion.  How do you define "fair share"?  It costs
very little (if any) more to secure the rights of a rich man compared to
those of a poor man.  They are, after all, the same rights.  (Example: the
rich man may have more property in need of being patrolled or guarded vs.
lawbreakers)

In fact, if you think you own any property, merely decide not to pay some of
this arbitrary extortion, and see how long you keep it.

Is this the government of our founding fathers?

In any case, although I try to word my questions to make the answers fairly
obvious from my standpoint, I would love to hear the opinions of others.
I would like to be able to take them seriously too (how else might I learn
things?), so please derive them using Reason, evidence, or both.  And if
you think the discussion is likely to be too intense or florid for this
board, by all means send me email.
If you are interested in some solidly written background information, I
strongly recommend "For the New Intellectual" and "The Virtue of Selfishness"
by Ayn Rand (I admit to not having read all of "Atlas Shrugged"...yet); 
and "The Psychology of Self-Esteem" by Nathaniel Branden.  Eye openers, to
be sure.
-JTT
From: ilanet@peg.pegasus.oz.au
Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk
Subject: Re: Genealogy Help Needed
Date: 17 Aug 92 01:18:00 GMT
Nf-ID: #R:peg:374500019:peg:374500020:000:565
Nf-From: peg.UUCP!ilanet    Aug 16 20:18:00 1992


Hi,

I thought I would add some extra stuff to my request in order
to ask for comment from anyone out there who feels they have
something to say {:-):

* how much can the public find out?
* what about privacy concerns of the individual? what if they
  don't want 'other' people to find out information?
* what about the possibilities of fraud in terms of obtaining
  two or more drivers licences or forms of identification?
* has anyone out there had experience with your Registry in
  trying to find out information?

Thanks,
Sandra Davey
ilanet@peg.pegasus.oz.au
Xref: sparky comp.org.eff.talk:5402 alt.allsysop:36 alt.bbs.ads:1242 co.general:1156 alt.bbs.allsysop:631 comp.bbs.misc:504 alt.activism:14842
From: mgm@clipper.ingr.com (Mike Marfell)
Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk,alt.allsysop,alt.bbs.ads,co.general,nyx.misc,alt.bbs.allsysop,comp.bbs.misc,du.misc,alt.activism
Subject: Re: The Last Straw
Date: 14 Aug 92 22:43:28 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Intergraph Advanced Processor Division - Palo Alto, CA

In article <1992Aug11.205034.25599@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, mrogers@nyx.cs.du.edu (Mark Rogers) writes:
> 
> Hey! Guess What I Found Out?
>  
> Remember what I said about business fascism?
>  
> Guess what both the Stouffer and the Red Lion Hotel have been doing
> for a long time now?
>  
> Give up?
>  
> If you called and asked "Can I get reservations for the IBECC
> convention"? do you know what they said?
>  
> "YES!"
>  
> If you asked "Is this where the IBECC convention is being held"? the
> Stoffer said "YES" and the Red Lion said "Its being held at the
> Stouffer".

>  
> What the heck are you guys at IBECC trying to do-commit suicide?
>  
> Why aren't you telling _everyone_ what creeps are running this "ONE"
> conference? Are you afraid of them and their big-money lawyers?
>  
> I say _boycott_! Everyone get together outside their hotel and
> boycott them-carry signs-let them know that the bbsrs dont approve
> of people who are _only_ in it for the money and who will lie and
> cheat to make a buck!
>  
> Long live the neighborhood-
> Mark


    Hey Mark, WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? Did I miss something?
Did the IBECC do something to you, maybe Stouffer or the Red Lion? I'm
a bit confused, please fill in the blanks and i'll consider a boycott.

                      *But dont hold you breath*

                                                          
  


-- 

Mike Marfell                                      mgm@clipper.ingr.com
Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk
From: rita@eff.org (Rita Marie Rouvalis)
Subject: Re: Using cryptography
Originator: rita@eff.org
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 16:00:23 GMT

In article <7845@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU> ygoland@edison.seas.ucla.edu (The Jester) writes:
>As a member of EFF (with a spiffy new t-shirt I might add!) I'd like
>to publicly ask:Where does EFF stand on the issue of government
>regulation of Ecryption with specific attention to the issues of
>Import/Export regulations (and their chilling effect on secured
>international communications via internet) and Government attempts
>to force the release of keys or weakning of cryptographic systems
>via law (re:the latest round of bills in the house regarding 'built
>in weakness' to cryptographic systems)?

	We are on record as strongly opposed to these measures.  I
refer you to John Perry Barlow's essay "Decrypting the Puzzle Palace,"
which can be found in the latest issue of EFFO
(/pub/EFF/newsletters/effector3.01).  This is also available in
pamphlet form by request via snail.  We've also published other
articles about this issue; you may want to ftp the file effector-index
and look do a quick scan for article titles.


>In addition, what activitites, if any, has EFF involved itself in or
>allied itself with regarding these areas?

	Our Washington office is actively watching and opposing all
such legislation.




-- 
Rita Marie Rouvalis              rita@eff.org 
Electronic Frontier Foundation   | Inbred Jed sez: Check with the Mormon
155 Second Street                | Church before marrying; inbreeding 
Cambridge, MA 02141 617-864-0665 | is everyone's problem.
From: Skip.Petery@f126.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Skip Petery)
Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk
Subject: Re: Want _Your_ Blood to
Date: 12 Aug 92 04:01:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: lrifido.713685609.1

JD> cambler@zeus.calpoly.edu (Christopher J. Ambler, Phish) writes:

JD> I think Compuserve charges way too much for what they offer.  I 
JD> don't use them, never have, and most likely never will.

I wish you'd said something to indicate that you have at least a nodding 
acquaintance with the system you disparage, James.  If you were to change 
the wording slightly, I would agree with you wholeheartedly.

Compuserve DOES charge a lot, and it is much more than I would be willing 
to pay for the services I would be able to take advantage of.  However:

JD> On the other hand, there are obviously enough people that disagree 
JD> with me that Compuserve appears to be doing very well indeed.

You're 100% right.  Some folks are able to require a need for the services 
Compuserve provides to the extent that it's often a bargain at the price.

I figure it's much like cable TV or cell phones.  Both services charge too 
much for me to consider them worthwhile, although there are odd times such 
means of access would be convenient.  I know of one woman who watches TV 
solidly from midmorning until the wee hours, every day and night, almost 
continuously.  For her, cable TV is a bargain.  Ditto the fellow who has 
cable access ONLY to record 1 program on his VCR.  "Wings" is on the 
Discovery Channel, and he is in the process of building a VCR library of 
every show in the series.  To him, cable TV is irreplaceable and cheap at 
even twice the cost.  I wouldn't own a cell phone at the current rates, 
but I know two people who do.  One man is an electrician.  He's able to 
call his suppliers for parts and information while he's on the job site.  
Time is money!  He can supervise the job AND make the right order, then 
send an apprentice to pick up the goods instead of having to make the trip 
himself.  THAT is good value.  A woman has a cell phone and wouldn't be 
without it -- even though she's used it only twice in 18 months.  She has 
a long drive home from work, out in the boonies, and she isn't healthy.  
If she breaks down, it could be a MAJOR problem for her.  So, she has a 
cell phone so she can stay in her car and call for help.  Again, it's 
definitely worth the cost -- to HER.

Like the old adage, "A workman is worth his hire," so too, "A service is 
worth it's subscription."  If it weren't, we wouldn't subscribe.  (And we 
don't, do we, James?  ;-)

___ WinQwk 2.0 a#0

 * Origin: Lawson & Reay - Vancouver, WA - (206) 574-8287 (1:105/126)
Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk
From: ygoland@edison.seas.ucla.edu (The Jester)
Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk
Subject: Re: Using cryptography
Date: 15 Aug 92 18:41:06 GMT
Organization: The Hacker Conference

As a member of EFF (with a spiffy new t-shirt I might add!) I'd like
to publicly ask:Where does EFF stand on the issue of government
regulation of Ecryption with specific attention to the issues of
Import/Export regulations (and their chilling effect on secured
international communications via internet) and Government attempts
to force the release of keys or weakning of cryptographic systems
via law (re:the latest round of bills in the house regarding 'built
in weakness' to cryptographic systems)?

In addition, what activitites, if any, has EFF involved itself in or
allied itself with regarding these areas?

			The Jester
--
"Only the blind see in color."
"Any union based upon pigment is foolish ignorance designed to
give power to those few who enjoy power's taste above the common
welfare."
Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk