HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)
Subject: Re: pc and mac: was RE: 486 and mac benchmarks
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 05:12:54 GMT

In article <Bz5uwI.LJ5@world.std.com> jbailey@world.std.com (jim bailey) writes:
>ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib) writes:

>>At least in Windows I don't have to dig through six layers of folders
>>just to launch an app. Every Mac power user I know has to have some 
>>kind of workaround (aliases - try explaining those to a novice - 
>>launchers, weird inits that stick things under the Apple menu, you
>>name it).
>
>In general you should be launching from a document, then you don't
>care where the actual application is.  Actually always launching
>the application is a holdover from less sophisticated shells.  If you
>spent a little time unlearning bad habits and a little time learning
>the mac way of doing things this problem disappears.

Then tell me why about 70% of the time in our clusters when you click 
on a WordPerfect 2.1 document file it comes up "Application is Busy
Or Missing"? Does it have to do with something about Wordperfect 
living on a server?

>You also don't need any weird inits to stick things in the Apple menu,
>you only need system 7.

Then why did they have to stick BeHierarchic in the Extensions folder?

>> How about .....?  Windows is simply
>>>to painful to use for many things.

>>So are Macs... what do you do when your numerous drive icons are 
>>buried under a pile of windows? Shouldn't they have designed it to
>>pop the icons up to the top when you bring Finder to the fore-
>>ground? The Systems people have been relying too much on 10 year
>>old ergonomic studies for the desktop.

>Option click on the desktop.  Useful if you have two few monitors and
>too many open applications.  There also is a really useful freeware app
>called applicon that allows you to have an Icon for each open app and
>a hot spot to pull the Icons to the top.

Oh great.. Windows has this by default. What they really need to do is
use the top menu bar as an appdock like the Next.








-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala
Internet: NTAIB@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU |    Frog is Frog ala Peach
Bitnet:   NTAIB@IUBACS                 !
From: Sundar_Prasad@mtsg.ubc.ca
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hardware
Subject: Apple 14" monitor & Radius Color Pivot?
Date: 18 Dec 1992 05:57:13 GMT
Organization: Civil Engineering, Univ of BC
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: tsunami.civil.ubc.ca

We just picked up a demo IIci and it came with a Radius Color Pivot
display card. Is there any way that this card can be used with the standard
Apple 14" hi-res display? I tried hooking them up (not expecting much to
happen), and nothing much happened. Its a usable display card, and I would
love to get the monitor off the IIci's internal video.

Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

Sundar_Prasad@mtsg.ubc.ca
Ocean Engineering
Univ. of British Columbia
Vancouver, Canada
Newsgroups: comp.sys.pc.hardware,comp.sys.mac.hardware
Subject: Re: DogCow - where it comes from
From: wgentry@netlink.cts.com (William Gentry)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 08:59:31 PST
Organization: NetLink Online Communications, San Diego CA

bskendig@netcom.com (Brian Kendig) writes:

> ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib) writes:
> >
> >I found out where the Dogcow comes from (download it from cica!). Go
> >to any Mac and pull up the Page Setup. Click on _Options_. See the 
> >DogCow? Its supposedly named "Claris" - supposedly the mascot for the 
> >Mac Systems Software group.
> 
> Nope, that's "Clarus".  "Miss Clarus" to you.  And I believe she's the
> mascot of DTS.  For detailed information, get Tech Note 31.
> 
> -- 
> _/_/_/  Brian Kendig                             Je ne suis fait comme aucun
> /_/_/  bskendig@netcom.com                de ceux que j'ai vus; j'ose croire
> _/_/                            n'etre fait comme aucun de ceux qui existent.
>   /  Nolite te bastardes     Si je ne vaux pas mieux, au moins je suis autre.
>  /    carborundorum.                                             -- Rousseau

I've never been able to find Tech Note 31. It is always deleted from the 
electronic archives of tech notes. Where is it available?

--                    
INTERNET:  wgentry@netlink.cts.com (William Gentry)
UUCP:   ...!ryptyde!netlink!wgentry
NetLink Online Communications * Public Access in San Diego, CA (619) 453-1115
From: mlobbia@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Kaneda)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hardware
Subject: Re: Duo Printer?
Date: 16 Dec 92 06:25:33 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego

In article <1992Dec15.223539.111@gallant.apple.com> pug@apple.com (Russ Emmons) writes:
>In article <42586@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> Kaneda, mlobbia@sdcc13.ucsd.edu writes:
>>How possible is it to design a printer that connects to the large expansion
>>port on the back of a Duo?  Does anyone out there know enough technically to
>>say if this is possible?
>
>Is it technically possible?  Electrically, at least, sure it is.  Add a serial
>chip and address decoding circuitry to your printer board, supply a 
>configuration rom to tell the docking handler the address of your serial 
>chip (in slot E space), and cram that all in front of your printer circuitry, 
>and you could probably be up and swimming without too much trouble.
>
>Or you might be able to create some sort of unit that simply plugs into
>the existing serial port...

The reason I ask this is because it would be nice to have a portable printer
(similar to the GCC one) that plugs right into the back of the Duo, and is
pretty well integrated, and about the size of a MiniDock.  Then you can just
bring this attachment and not have to worry about cables and such.  Well, 
just an idea, anyway.

Marcus
-- 
///  Marcus Lobbia            ///
|||  mlobbia@sdcc13.ucsd.edu  |||
///  comtec!marcus@ucsd.edu   ///
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hardware
From: dave@yggdrasil.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (David Lee Matuszek)
Subject: Opinions on ImageWriter II sheet feeder?
Organization: Paramax Systems
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 18:47:42 GMT


A friend of mine has an ImageWriter II that he's quite happy with,
except he says that the print "drifts to one side" after printing
several pages (I'm not quite sure what he means by this; he does know
how to use the sprocket feeder correctly).

He's recently seen a sheet feeder for the IW II, and is curious about
whether it's any good.  Does anyone have any experience with this
beast that they'd be willing to share?

Thanks in advance for any advice and opinions.

  --dave

------------------------
My old address is:  dave@prc.unisys.com     (expires soon)
My new address is:  dave@vfl.paramax.com    (please use this one)

My mailer is unlikely to get either of them right :-(
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hardware
From: meharg@fraser.sfu.ca (Gersham William Meharg)
Subject: PB 160/180 Heatsinks...
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 19:07:48 GMT

Just what do the PB 160 and 180 heatsinks look like anyway?

(the ones that must be removed with some 3rd party memory modules)

Gersham Meharg
SFU, Vancouver
Canada

Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hardware
From: lui@netcom.com (Stephen Lui)
Subject: 3rd Party SCSI Formatters
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 22:30:03 GMT

I have two external SCSI drives which have bad mechanisms (a CMS and a
DataFrame). I've been looking at the Maxtor 7060S mechanism with 60Meg for
$199. Which of the 3rd party SCSI formatters would be better for this drive,
Hard Disk Utilities from FWB or SilverLining from La Cie?

The CMS takes a normal 3.5" mechanism and I took everything out of the DataFrame
except for the power supply. For anyone who has a DataFrame XP40, the original
disk is a 40MB MFM drive with a MFM to SCSI controller card. You can take out
the drive (give it to a less fortunate friend who has a PC) and the controller
card.The power and SCSI connections will work fine and a 3.5 (I tried a Seagate
ST-158N) hard disk bolts perfectly to the DataFrame's frame. Presto, you have
a faster (and MUCH quieter) drive in the XP40 case.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.pc.hardware,comp.sys.mac.hardware
From: bredell@tdb.uu.se (Mats Bredell)
Subject: Re: DogCow - where it comes from (was: Re: "Windoze" slow? Naah...Re: pc and mac: was RE: 486 and mac benchmarks)
Reply-To: Mats.Bredell@udac.uu.se
Organization: Uppsala University Computing Center (UDAC)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 12:11:49 GMT

Iskandar Taib (ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu) wrote:
: 
: By the way...
: 
: I found out where the Dogcow comes from (download it from cica!). Go
: to any Mac and pull up the Page Setup. Click on _Options_. See the 
: DogCow? Its supposedly named "Claris" - supposedly the mascot for the 
: Mac Systems Software group.

Yes, that's the dogcow, but the name is "Clarus". It's hiding inside the
system. The Page Setup dialog is one of the few places you're able to see
it. Clarus is the mascot of Mac DTS.

/Mats
-- 
Mats Bredell                                   Mats.Bredell@udac.uu.se
Uppsala University Computing Center (UDAC)     Ph:  +46 18 187817
Department of medical systems                  Fax: +46 18 187825
Sweden                                         Think straight - be gay!
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hardware
From: hjwulfso@unix.amherst.edu (Harris Wulfson)
Subject: Re: PC is faster than Mac? Myth or Truth?
Organization: Amherst College
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 20:55:03 GMT

mece1us@rosie.uh.edu wrote:
} As a Macintosh user, I feel uncomfortable when I hear somebody says:" IBM PC
} is faster than Macintosh in calculation.  Mac is an excellent word processor
} and is good for graphic application.  It is not fast enough for serious 
} mathematical calculation or modeling."  I hear this kind of word many times,
} even a Electrical Engineer Professor said that.  I would like to know whether
} PC is really faster than a Mac for the same clock speed and similar model CPU.
} If Mac is really faster or similar in performance compared with PC, how can
} Apple or Mac lover express the truth?
} Thank You

Well, yes and no. There is nothing inherently faster about PC's. If you
compare 68030's to 80386's and 68040's to 486 at the same clock speeds,
I think you'll find that the Motorolla (Mac) chips are actually a bit 
faster. Now for the bad news...
   What I think everyone is trying to tell you is that for similarly PRICED
systems, the PC will win out in terms of speed. For about the price of a
Mac LC II (low-end, slow), for instance, you could get 486 50Mhz PC
(faaasst), which is good if you do major number crunching, but bad if
you actually have to interact with your computer. 
     But don't let people say silly things like "PC's are faster" unless
they know the facts.
--
Harris Wulfson
hjwulfson@unix.amherst.edu
  
  /  /                               _
 /==/ __  __  __  ' _     /   )     // /) _   _   __
/  / /_|_/ /_/ /_/_/_)   (_/_/ /_/_//_//_/_)_(_)_/ /_
                                     //
From: nick+@pitt.edu (Nick C De Mello)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hardware
Subject: Re: Using Color on a Classic II
Keywords: color classic
Date: 14 Dec 92 03:34:30 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <golden.724262798@ponder> golden@ponder.csci.unt.edu (Timothy A. Goldenburg) writes:
>Could someone please e-mail me some information on what hardware I need
>to hook up a color monitor to my Classic II.  Thanx.
>

  You only need two pieces of equipment, a vid card and a SE/30.  :)
  If I remember right the Classic II doen't have a PDS slot (and 
certainly doesn't have internal video), so there's no way to hook
up a color (or any external) monitor without an upgrade.

                              -- nick


-- 
   _/   _/  _/  _/_/_/   _/   _/  Sea Shells to C shells,  Waikiki to
  _/_/ _/  _/  _/   _/  _/_/_/     the Internet, a wave, is a wave...
 _/ _/_/  _/  _/       _/ _/                     
_/   _/  _/   _/_/_/  _/   _/  CompSrv: 71232,766 * I-Net: Nick+@pitt.edu
From: merlyn@ora.com (Randal L. Schwartz)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hardware
Subject: Re: PB 160/180 and PowerPort
Date: 17 Dec 92 02:04:16 GMT
Article-I.D.: romulus.MERLYN.92Dec16180411
	<1992Dec16.202851.632@nntp.hut.fi>
Organization: Stonehenge Consulting Services; Portland, Oregon, USA

In article <1992Dec16.202851.632@nntp.hut.fi> jmunkki@vipunen.hut.fi (Juri Munkki) writes:
   I just got my PB160 today and immediately moved the PowerPort Silver modem
   from my PB140 to the new machine. Unfortunately the software will not
   recognize the machine as a PowerBook and refuses to load. The modem works
   as a regular data modem, but I don't get the menu and there's no way to
   send faxes.

   I'll call the dealer tomorrow and ask if they have a new version of the
   software.  I already mailed Global Village techsupport about the problem.

Yes yes yes.  You must have 1.0.6.  They Fedexed a disk to me for free
right away when I called them.  Bravo to the GV people!

Just another 160 owner (with a Gold modem),

--
Randal L. Schwartz / Stonehenge Consulting Services (503)777-0095
merlyn@ora.com (semi-permanent) merlyn@reed.edu (for newsreading only)
factoid: "Portland, Oregon, home of the California Raisins and Lone-Star Beer!"
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hardware
From: jmunkki@vipunen.hut.fi (Juri Munkki)
Subject: Re: Powerbook/Duo keyboards
Reply-To: jmunkki@vipunen.hut.fi (Juri Munkki)
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 21:03:59 GMT

In article <4824@svin09.info.win.tue.nl> keesh@info.win.tue.nl writes:
>Except the function-keys, numeric keys, and the delete key, everything is
>there on a PowerBook 160. They are arranged as follows:
>
>plusminus                                                  backspace
>paragraph
>
>Tab               STANDARD KEYS                                 Re
>                                                                tu
>Capslock                                              vertbar   rn
>						      bkslash  
>
>Shift  tilde                                           Shift    Up
>       backquote
>
>Ctrl  Option Command Escape  ssppaaccee Enter  Left   Right   Down

You should have mentioned that this is the international version of
the PowerBook keyboard. The international version has one key more
than the US version and the key layout is significantly different.

On the US keyboard, the cursor keys are all on the bottom row and
the shift keys are full size. There's no extra key between the Z
and shift. The return key is horizontal on the US version.

Also, it's quite possible to change the keyboard layout to almost
whatever you could want. I doubt that anyone has a keyboard like
mine, since it's built from parts of an international PB160 keyboard
and a US PB140 keyboard...

I moved the escape key to where it belongs (above the tab key) and
the enter key is now between return and delete. I now have mostly
Finnish key caps on the otherwise US keyboard.

The only thing you can't change is that the CAPS lock key will lock
when pressed. You can change it to anything else, but even if you
make it a letter like 'A', it will still lock (and the key will
repeat automatically)...

-- 
  Juri Munkki					       Windsurf: fast sailing
 jmunkki@hut.fi					      Macintosh: fast software
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hardware,com.sys.mac.misc
From: sevans@andy.bgsu.edu (Stephen W. Evans)
Subject: Re: 8.24GC, anyone?
Organization: Bowling Green State University B.G., Oh.
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 16:36:07 GMT

bszeto@netcom.com (Bailey Szeto) writes:

>sevans@andy.bgsu.edu (Stephen W. Evans) writes:
>: Under system 7.xn the 8*24GC sucks the big wonz in the performance department.
>: Frankly it slows down any graphic operations in any mode other than 24bit and
>: also tends to turn off the 68030's internal cacheing (although there is 
>: a startup program called cachebit to turn this back on)

>(rest deleted)

>Is this using the old drivers? I saw that the dealer had three part numbers,
>one for system 6, one for system 7, and one for system 7.01... Does the GC
>work correctly if one has the System 7.01 version? 



It works correctly in that it dosen't bomb you mac and dosen't screw up the
drawing on screen.  It dosen't work correctly in that it still displays 
minimal acceleration.  One point of note.  It has been mentioned in the past
that the principle cause of poor performance may be, for some reason, the
Mac IIci itself.  I use a ci and am amoung the irritated.  I have not tried
the card in my wifes IIcx but someone else posted that they were using a IIx
and thought the card was just dandy.  Maybe they had just never seen it run
under system 6.0.x :)
-Steve
From: STMQ%MARIST.bitnet@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu (Michael Quigley)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hardware
Subject: Sorry About That..
Date: 15 Dec 1992 02:37:48 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

Dear Readers,

Sorry about the huge signature file that got posted, I realize that it
is bad form to carry around such a huge signature.. That signature was
originally intended to be a joke that only got out to a few people on
a specific mailing list.. Because of an error on my part it went out
with all of my postings.. I took care of it..

My Apologies And Thanks For All The Help,

- Mike -

======================================================================
Michael Francis Quigley    =          Marist College, Poughkeepsie, NY
"Peace through music.."    =                        stmq@vm.marist.edu
======================================================================
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hardware
From: cs123052@cs.brown.edu (Michael Lee)
Subject: Re: IM stacks on ftp.apple.com
Keywords: SpInsideMacintosh HC stacks
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 23:03:18 GMT

>In my summary of the "how is programming Macs" question I mentioned that the
>Inside Macintosh books were available via hypercard on ftp.apple.com.  I've
>already received several queries as to where specifically they are.  I hadn't
>actually checked on this, so I took a look this morning.  I didn't realize how
>much stuff they have there!!!  Anyhow, after about half an hour, I ran across
>this...
>
>200 PORT command successful.
>150 Opening ASCII mode data connection for /bin/ls.
>total 6944
>-rw-r--r--  1 mjohnson archivis  1084483 Jul 31  1991
>spinside-mac-4-0-2-pt1.hqx
>-rw-r--r--  1 mjohnson archivis  1084786 Jul 31  1991
>spinside-mac-4-0-2-pt2.hqx
>-rw-r--r--  1 mjohnson archivis  1084059 Jul 31  1991
>spinside-mac-4-0-2-pt3.hqx
>-rw-r--r--  1 mjohnson archivis  1075309 Jul 31  1991
>spinside-mac-4-0-2-pt4.hqx
>-rw-r--r--  1 mjohnson archivis  1086551 Jul 31  1991
>spinside-mac-4-0-2-pt5.hqx
>-rw-r--r--  1 mjohnson archivis  1086746 Jul 31  1991
>spinside-mac-4-0-2-pt6.hqx
>-rw-r--r--  1 mjohnson archivis   567550 Jul 31  1991
>spinside-mac-4-0-2-pt7.hqx
>226 Transfer complete.
>586 bytes received in 0.2 seconds (2.8 Kbytes/s)
>ftp> pwd
>257 "/dts/mac/docs/stacks/spinside" is current directory.
>
>I think this is it (or them)...but I'm not sure.  If someone could confirm this
>before I spend the rest of my life downloading these, I would be most grateful.
Yep.  Those are they. I downloaded them yesterday from mac.archive.umich.edu
You'll need to download all of them because they are actually one file that
has been split into seven parts.  The final file is a 5 MB stuffit document.
Uncompressed, it's 9.4 MB, so make sure that you have lots of disk space.

Besides ftp.apple.com (I couldn't find it there..), it's in
mac.archive.umich.edu  in /mac/development/apple/stack
have fun, and make sure you have a nice book to read. :-)

- mike
cs123052@cs.brown.edu
michael_lee@brown.edu
From: blackbox@pfunk.hanse.de (Michael Kistenmacher)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hardware
Subject: Re: Mac Classic 110 volts => 220 volts
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 12:06:13 MET
Organization: Blackbox Inc.
Reply-To: blackbox@pfunk.hanse.de (Michael Kistenmacher)
Distribution: world
X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.6v1


In article <1992Dec16.193927.24197@bio.vu.nl> (comp.sys.mac.hardware), ttonino@bio.vu.nl (Thomas Tonino) writes:
>Can a Mac Classic, 110 volt model, be used on 220 volts, either
>all by itself or by setting a jumper? By the way, I don't know...
>
I remember that the classic has a jumper on the motherboard for switching
from 110 V to 220 V. Just open your classic and look for it near the
transformer.

Greetings....Michael

---
-----------------------------------
( Michael Kistenmacher / blackbox )
(  Germany  /  ++ 49 40 559 12 42 )
-----------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hardware
From: Russ Emmons <pug@apple.com>
Subject: Re: Duo Printer?
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 18:08:43 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.

In article <42616@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> Kaneda, mlobbia@sdcc13.ucsd.edu writes:
>Well, just an idea, anyway.

Yep, and like I said, it's certainly possible to do.
From: cheng@ee.rochester.edu (Bruce Cheng)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hardware
Subject: IIsi upgradability question.
Keywords: IIsi question, upgrade, accelerator
Date: 13 Dec 92 16:54:02 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Univ of Rochester, College of Engineering and Applied Science

I am considering of getting a MAC IIsi.  I believe that the IIsi will be
discontinued very soon and I am concerned about the upgradability of the
machine.

There are accelerator cards for the IIsi (such as Daystar 50MHZ/68030) does
any one have any experience with accelerator cards on a IIsi? What are the
bottel neck?  Is there any difference between putting a 50MHZ 68030 on a
IIci then on a IIsi?

Any info or comments on IIsi upgradability are welcome.

Thanks in advance.
-Bruce
-- 
+-----------------------------------------+------------------------------------+| Home: 716-475-9329(voice         )      |Usnet: cheng@ee.rochester.edu       || Work: 716-427-3475                      |XNS: Bruce_Cheng.Henr801B@xerox.com || Address: 222 Norman Road, Rochester     |Uucp: uunet!rochester!ur-val!cheng  ||          NY14623                        |                                    |+-----------------------------------------+------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hardware
From: jules@kbsw1 (Jules Dubois)
Subject: Re: pc and mac: was RE: 486 and mac benchmarks
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 19:40:09 GMT
Reply-To: jbailey@world.std.com
Organization: none
Followup-To: alt.flame

In article <Bz14Ds.EyG@world.std.com> jbailey@world.std.com (jim bailey) writes:
>Ok, it is called MPW, it is available from APDA for about $125.  I use
>it all the time.  It blows the doors off of the DOS shell.  What was
>your point?

This drivel does not involve IBM hardware.  Please stop cross-posting.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hardware
From: jmunkki@vipunen.hut.fi (Juri Munkki)
Subject: PB 160/180 and PowerPort
Reply-To: jmunkki@vipunen.hut.fi (Juri Munkki)
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 20:28:51 GMT

In article <1992Dec13.172458.22500@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> jnowak@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Joe Nowak) writes:
>I have confirmed on the net and from Global Village that their TelePort
>external modem will not work with the PowerBook 160 and 180.  The culprit is
>a change to the ADB port in these models.

I just got my PB160 today and immediately moved the PowerPort Silver modem
from my PB140 to the new machine. Unfortunately the software will not
recognize the machine as a PowerBook and refuses to load. The modem works
as a regular data modem, but I don't get the menu and there's no way to
send faxes.

I'll call the dealer tomorrow and ask if they have a new version of the
software.  I already mailed Global Village techsupport about the problem.

-- 
  Juri Munkki					       Windsurf: fast sailing
 jmunkki@hut.fi					      Macintosh: fast software