From: patter@dasher.uucp (24224-guthrie)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.ifr
Subject: Re: Stay off the rudder!
Date: 5 Oct 92 23:16:03 GMT
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ

In article <1992Oct5.200118.18558@ee.rochester.edu> dela@ee.rochester.edu (Del Armstrong) writes:

>Finally, to relate this to the original post by Mr. Robbie, what if
>you're flying a nice vintage Aeronica, with even less usefull
>instrumentation than the glider (no vario or yaw string)? And you find
>yourself in a similar situation, either "really" stuck on top with not
>enough fuel to find a hole (let's say you've spent the last 2 hours
>trying) or somehow imbedded in IFR stuff. Although I know even less
>about flying vintage aircraft then gliders (which isn't much), when
>Mr. Robbie mentioned that some old hands had suggested putting spins
>into your box of emergency tools, that struck me as a reasonable idea.
>It still does, although like any tool it's only appropriate under
>certain circumstances.

I have been told that spins (and stalls, for that matter) continue to
"develop". I don't know how far. Consider, though, that that vintage
aircraft was never certified for spins, though it would probably do them
if they had bothered to certify aircraft back then. The Aeronca is thus
an unknown quantity with a (probably) 40 year old wooden wing. Just a
thought.

>- Is it generally considered possible to fly IFR with just airspeed,
>  altimeter and a compass?

In an open cockpit, yes but very difficult. In a cabin aircraft, generally no.

>  I imagine airspeed and altimeter would be
>  fine for controlling pitch, but can you keep the wings level with just
>  a compass?

Exactly. With the old biplanes, they handled this by the feel of the wind
on a cheek and the sound of the wires. 

>  How about the trick Mr. Robbie referred to of using just
>  rudder and compass to keep the wings level, will that really work?

All IFR pilots are required to do some training with the vacuum instruments
out (this usually means with the attitude indicator non-functional). It
is possible to use the needle and ball as an attitute indicator (but *I*
can't do it). I would suppose that the magnetic compass could help a
little, since it tilts to one side when you bank. You'd have to be very
precise.

>  In most aircraft? How about in strong turbulence?

In my aircraft and in stable air or mild turbulence, one can keep the wings
level by taking one's hands off the wheel and keeping the ball centered
by using the rudder. If flown solo, it has a tendency to go into a right
turn in turbulence. If this exceeds about 10 degrees bank, the angle which
will continue to steepen to about 30 degrees, at which point she starts to
spiral. In "severe" turbulence, by definition, the aircraft will be out of
control.

>- Am I correct in thinking that Mr. Patterson's reference to a FAR
>  about spins below 5000 AGL, is really a reference to 91.303 which
>  prohibits aerobatics below 1500 AGL? 

I expect it was (my Jeppesen's doesn't go that high in the FARs). My
statement was an (apparently inaccurate) repetition of what one of my
flight instructors told me. I suppose he simply wants at least that much
altitude to recover.

>- Did any of the articles in the mainstream publications like Flying
>  and Private Pilot mention what to do in aircraft with just the basic
>  VFR instruments? If so, what was their advice? 

Leaving out the engine instruments, the basic VFR instruments are 1) magnetic
compass, 2) heading indicator, 3) turn & bank indicator, 4) attitude
indicator, 5) altimeter, and 6) rate of climb meter (did I miss any in
there?). With these your typical private pilot has the ability to execute
a 180 degree turn quite safely. That's basically what they recommend.

If the weather has closed in behind, they recommend getting on the radio,
declaring an emergency, and doing what ATC recommends from there. If you
don't have a radio, they recommend a precautionary off-field landing.

Basically, they recommend that you stay out of the clouds. Their primary
instruction though is "above all, *fly* the plane".

>Finally, I'm just a low time private pilot with power and glider
>ratings, no IFR rating.  I could still be out to lunch, in which case
>I look forward to being (gently) corrected.

Well, you're one rating up on me. All I know about IFR is what I've
read. As far as I can tell, it's all done with mirrors. 

By the way, you really ought to consider joining AOPA. The magazine
alone is worth the money.

Oh - one more thing. "Continued VFR into IFR conditions" is one of the two
top causes of death in the air world for us little guys.

patter@dasher.cc.bellcore.com
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                    |
George Patterson -  | Basic research is what I'm doing when I don't
                    | know what I'm doing.
                    |                            Werner Von Braun
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