HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rockwell@socrates.umd.edu (Raul Deluth Miller-Rockwell)
Subject: Re: APL execution efficiency revisited
Organization: Traveller
	<1992Apr5.180150.41@yrloc.ipsa.reuter.COM> <794@kepler1.rentec.com>
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 14:19:04 GMT

Robert Bernecky:
   >The point I am STILL trying to make (and will give up if this
   >iteration fails...) is that APL already HAS all the information at
   >hand to optimally (from the standpoint of ordering the matrix
   >products to minimize ops) determine the best ordering.

Andrew Mullhaupt:
   Yes. If you are doing +.x / you can optimize this. It is much
   harder to say something about 'on-line' matrix chain product, where
   you are supposed to compute the partial product as you go along, as
   in the case of a loop.

This is a good argument against using loops.  The significant question
is _why_ are you using a loop?  If the reason is that you must deal
with time (say, interactive input, where you must display partial
results), there isn't a whole lot you should do about this.  If the
reason is that you couldn't think of anything better, well, that's a
personal problem.

If the reason is that the whole problem couldn't fit into memory, you
can take an APL solution and expand it -- once you've got a decent
algorithm.  Its tempting to recommend that the language support this
transparently, but virtual memory might be a way around this problem.
[Also, it is harder to write fast code that's general when there's
many orders of magnitudes difference between different kinds of
storage.]

   >A. A posting by a single programmer is not necessarily optimal for any
   >   language.

   Yes, but that posting was claimed to be optimal for APL2. I have
   reason to believe that it is very fast in APL2, and nobody seems to
   have posted better, so maybe I'll just claim "best known", although
   you might want to be conservative about it and say that it's hard
   enough to do better that nobody is motivated to post better...

Well, there's a number of reasons I favor J over APL2.  One is that it
seems much easier to optimize.  At present, this is barely even a
theoretical advantage, but... we'll see.

           1 + max / B x T jot.- T <- iota rho B <- 0 unequal M

Um... shouldn't you ravel that before doing the max reduce?  Also, are
you sure you don't want to also take the absolute value at the same
time?

   which computes the bandwidth of a matrix M. I have not seen interpreted

   You're right. I should have said something other than most.
   Although almost all APL interpreters I used have call-out, very few
   supported call-in.  I used APL2 (which now has it) and STSC and
   Sharpe APL. One of our resident APL programmers here doesn't think
   you can do it with Dyalog. Maybe we're not talking about the same
   thing.

I understand that STSC now has it as well (quadNA).  J has it [of
course].  I don't know about Sharp, but J is (to my mind) its
successor.  I don't know about Dyalog either -- but if you want it,
why not contact the people who produce it?

-- 
Raul Deluth Miller-Rockwell                   <rockwell@socrates.umd.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.apl
Subject: Re: APL execution efficiency revisited
From: andrew@rentec.com (Andrew Mullhaupt)
Date: 8 Apr 92 15:15:06 GMT
Organization: Renaissance Technologies Corp., Setauket, NY.

In article <ROCKWELL.92Apr7091904@socrates.umd.edu> rockwell@socrates.umd.edu (Raul Deluth Miller-Rockwell) writes:
>This is a good argument against using loops.  The significant question
>is _why_ are you using a loop?  If the reason is that you must deal
>with time (say, interactive input, where you must display partial
>results), there isn't a whole lot you should do about this. 

This is my point all along.

>
>           1 + max / B x T jot.- T <- iota rho B <- 0 unequal M
>
>Um... shouldn't you ravel that before doing the max reduce?  Also, are
>you sure you don't want to also take the absolute value at the same
>time?

Yes, I forgot the absolute value and ravel. Did I forget it in both posts? 
The correct idiom is:

           1 + max / abs ravel B x T jot.- T <- iota rho B <- 0 unequal M

Later,
Andrew Mullhaupt
From: GIBNEY@WSUVM1.BITNET (Dave Gibney)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.asm370
Subject: Re: TSRs in VM
Date: 10 Apr 92 22:03:50 GMT
Reply-To: IBM 370 Assembly Programming Discussion List
              <ASM370@OHSTVMA.BITNET>
Distribution: inet
Organization: The Internet
X-Unparsable-Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 14:59:38 PLT


 I'm sure there's a PROFS option to not mess with rdr files until asked. PROFS
doesn't mess with my rdr files.
From: swt10@ccc.amdahl.com (Scott Tyree)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.asm370
Subject: Re: TSRs in VM
Keywords: HDNIO,ENDCMD,ABEND,CMS,VM
Date: 8 Apr 92 23:16:13 GMT
Reply-To: swt10@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Scott Tyree)
Followup-To: comp.lang.asm370
Distribution: inet
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <9204081507.AA23642@mammoth.Berkeley.EDU> IBM 370 Assembly Programming Discussion List <ASM370%OHSTVMA.BITNET@jade.Berkeley.EDU> writes:

<stuff deleted>

>reader).  However, HNDIO exits may not survive ENDCMD and/or ABEND
>cleanup processing, so this may not work for a nucleus extension; you

In order for the HNDIO to survive ENDCMD you specify KEEP=YES and for
it to survive ABEND processing you need SYSTEM=YES. Both of these are
*not* the defaults. This is from the VM/ESA 1.1.1 CMS Application
Development Reference for Assembler.

Hope this helps...

>      John Pershing
>      IBM Research, Yorktown Heights NY

Scott Tyree    swt10@cccvm.ccc.amdahl.com
Amdahl Corp.
From: ##09@UTMARTN.BITNET (Larry Holder)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.asm370
Subject: TSRs in VM
Date: 7 Apr 92 21:12:51 GMT
Reply-To: IBM 370 Assembly Programming Discussion List
              <ASM370@OHSTVMA.BITNET>
Distribution: inet
Organization: The Internet

>   Is there an equivalent to TSRs on the PC in VM? (TSR = Terminate and
> Stay resident.) Here's what I'm trying to do. We are running PROFS OV/VM
> When mail comes in from SMTP to my userid, it goes into my reader and then
> and then, without my consent, PROFS snatches it out of my reader, turns it
> into a profs message and I have to go into profs to read the thing.
>   This can be extremely annoying sometimes. What I'd like to do is have
> a program that stays in memory at all times and whenever the reader gets a
> file, I want a program to get control of the file before PROFS.
>   I can handle the part of waiting for the interrupt, but how would I get
> the program to be resident while it's waiting and still allow me to continue
> a normal CMS session?
>   If it's of any consequence, we're running VM/XA CMS 5.6
>                                                    _Pete Davis

Sounds like the Nucleus Extensions.  CMS has commands like
NUCXLOAD, etc. Check your CMS Application Guide for Assembler.

Larry Holder

Senior Programmer/Analyst
The University of Tennessee at Martin Computer Center
Martin, TN  38237

Bitnet:   ##09@UTMARTN    Phone: (901) 587-7890    GUIDE: PHY
Systems:  VSE/ESA 1.1.1, CICS/VSE 2.1.0, VM/ESA 1.0
Hardware: IBM 9221-150; 9336 FBA dasd; 9348 tape; 7171 term control
New PSW:  (Personal Status Words): Saved by grace (Romans 1:16 & 8:38)
From: DAVISPE@PENTAGON-HQDADSS.ARMY.MIL
Newsgroups: comp.lang.asm370
Subject: TSRs in VM
Date: 7 Apr 92 20:21:44 GMT
Article-I.D.: ucbvax.9204071925.AA08650
Reply-To: IBM 370 Assembly Programming Discussion List
              <ASM370@OHSTVMA.BITNET>
Distribution: inet
Organization: The Internet


  Is there an equivalent to TSRs on the PC in VM? (TSR = Terminate and
Stay resident.) Here's what I'm trying to do. We are running PROFS OV/VM
When mail comes in from SMTP to my userid, it goes into my reader and then
and then, without my consent, PROFS snatches it out of my reader, turns it
into a profs message and I have to go into profs to read the thing.
  This can be extremely annoying sometimes. What I'd like to do is have
a program that stays in memory at all times and whenever the reader gets a
file, I want a program to get control of the file before PROFS.
  I can handle the part of waiting for the interrupt, but how would I get
the program to be resident while it's waiting and still allow me to continue
a normal CMS session?
  If it's of any consequence, we're running VM/XA CMS 5.6
                                                   _Pete Davis
Organization: HAM - Hackers Against MUDs
X-Subliminal-Message: IBM/370 assembler is your friend.
Date: Tuesday, 7 Apr 1992 22:00:49 EDT
From: Ken Hornstein <KXH105@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.asm370
Subject: Re: TSRs in VM
Distribution: inet

In article <9204072208.AA14415@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU>,
DAVISPE@PENTAGON-HQDADSS.ARMY.MIL says:
>
>   I think my question might have been a bit confusing. I know how to load
>a module as a nucleus extension. What I need is a way of having it be able
>to become active when an interrupt (file coming into the reader) takes place.
>Sort of the same way WAKEUP or IUCVTRAP work.

Ugh, sticky problem.  You'd have to set up an interrupt handler that would
grab interrupts ahead of PROFS.  Of course, this depends on how PROFS detects
incoming reader files.

The simplest solution I see is not to use PROFS ... do you really need it?
When I had to use it during my co-op, it was one of the first things I
turned off :-)

---
A professional is one who does a good job even when he doesn't feel like it.

Ken Hornstein       kxh105@psuvm.psu.edu      Phone: 814/867-8002
From: HOLST%DIALOG@MCIMAIL.COM (HOLST)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.asm370
Subject: TSRs in VM
Date: 8 Apr 92 15:18:00 GMT
Reply-To: IBM 370 Assembly Programming Discussion List
              <ASM370@OHSTVMA.BITNET>
Distribution: inet
Organization: The Internet

TO:   HOLST
FROM: IBM 370 Assembly Pro
DATE: 04/07/92
TIME: 19:29:15
SUBJ: MCI Mail message

In response to :

>Message-Id: 60920408001206/0003765414NA4EM
>   I think my question might have been a bit confusing. I know how to lad
>a module as a nucleus extension. What I need is a way of having it be ale
>to become active when an interrupt (file coming into the reader) takes lace.
>Sort of the same way WAKEUP or IUCVTRAP work.

If I understand your question correctly, I believe the solution to
your problem would be to load your TSR into memory (NUCXLOAD, CMS
loader, etc.) and then setup an interrupt handler that would intercept
I/O interrupts for the RDR only. You can achieve the latter by
overriding the IONPSW and screening all the I/O interrupts or
using the HNDINT macro to specify an exit that should be taken
when I/O interrupts occur for a particular device (RDR/00C). I hope
this information is helpful.


Mike Holst
Programmer
DIALOG Information Services
(415)858-4072
HOLST%DIALOG@MCIMAIL.COM
From: PERSHNG@YKTVMH3.BITNET ("John A. Pershing Jr.")
Newsgroups: comp.lang.asm370
Subject: TSRs in VM
Date: 8 Apr 92 14:37:22 GMT
Reply-To: IBM 370 Assembly Programming Discussion List
              <ASM370%OHSTVMA.BITNET@jade.Berkeley.EDU>
Distribution: inet
Organization: The Internet

First you need to find some usable notification event, and then you have
to figure out how to hook into that event.

I seem to remember hearing at one time that CP presented the virtual
reader with an unsolicited ATTN interrupt whenever a file was spooled
to the reader.  IF THIS IS TRUE (it may not be -- my memory is
notoriously faulty), then you can probably hook I/O interrupts and go
from there.  Check into the HNDIO macro, which allows you to establish
a "disabled interrupt exit" (DIE) for a specific device (e.g., the
reader).  However, HNDIO exits may not survive ENDCMD and/or ABEND
cleanup processing, so this may not work for a nucleus extension; you
will have to read the manuals, and perhaps do a bit of experimenting.
The other tack (this is the all-time favorite of CMS hackers) is to
steal the I/O New PSW, act on the ATTN interrupts from the reader (if,
in fact, CP does present these interrupts), and the pass the interupts
on through to CMS's FLIH.  In both of these cases, you will be running
disabled, and you will be severely limited in what CMS services you can
use -- note that the bulk of CMS is not reentrant and, therefore, not
usable from a FLIH.  E.g., you will *not* be able to invoke DMSDDL to
inhale the spool file; the best that you can do is issue CP commands
(via DIAG 8) to try to do something to the spool file that will
convince PROFS to leave its grubby hands off of it (e.g., can you
change the class of the file, or spool it HOLD, or something?).

The other possibility is to intercept the message that CP sends you
when the file is spooled ("RDR FILE nnnn SPOOLED FROM RSCS"), which is
what IUCVTRAP, et al., are doing.  Unfortunately, your only choice here
is to intercept *all* CP messages, which leaves you with the problem of
what to do with the messages that you don't want to process.  This tack
is probably "safer" and "easier", but is a lot less fun.  Also, I
believe that there are problems in "sharing" IUCV interrupts, so you
may have problems with programs stealing the interrupts away from you.
Of course, you can solve this problem by stealing the External New PSW
and filtering out the interrupts that you want.

I'm sure others will have better ideas.

      John Pershing
      IBM Research, Yorktown Heights NY
From: U10009@SNAESP2.BITNET
Newsgroups: comp.lang.asm370
Subject: Extract Macro
Date: 7 Apr 92 14:38:18 GMT
Reply-To: IBM 370 Assembly Programming Discussion List
              <ASM370@OHSTVMA.BITNET>
Distribution: inet
Organization: The Internet


 Hello.
 I am a VM/SP rel. 6 user running VSE/SP 3.2 as a guest operating system.
 I don't have the appropiate manual to see the parameters of the macro:

 EXTRACT ID=CPUID,... other parameters follow

 Someone in the list could send me the complete format of this macro and
 return codes?  The appropiate manual must be 'VSE/AF Application Pro-
 gramming: Macro Reference' ( SC33-6197-?? )

 Thanks in advance.
From: DAVISPE@PENTAGON-HQDADSS.ARMY.MIL
Newsgroups: comp.lang.asm370
Subject: TSRs in VM
Date: 7 Apr 92 23:07:06 GMT
Reply-To: IBM 370 Assembly Programming Discussion List
              <ASM370@OHSTVMA.BITNET>
Distribution: inet
Organization: The Internet


   I think my question might have been a bit confusing. I know how to load
a module as a nucleus extension. What I need is a way of having it be able
to become active when an interrupt (file coming into the reader) takes place.
Sort of the same way WAKEUP or IUCVTRAP work.
Newsgroups: comp.lang.modula3
From: ian@syacus.acus.oz.au (Ian Joyner)
Subject: C++ Critique in comp.lang.c++
Organization: ACUS Australian Centre for Unisys Software, Sydney
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 12:05:06 GMT

I have posted a critique of C++ in comp.lang.c++. This can form a basis of
comparison of Modula-3 and C++.
-- 
Ian Joyner                                     ACSNet: ian@syacus.acus.oz
ACUS (Australian Centre for Unisys Software)   Internet: ian@syacus.acus.oz.au
Tel 61-2-390 1328      Fax 61-2-390 1391       UUCP: ...uunet!munnari!syacus.oz
From: jjw1@mongoose.gte.com (Jim Walker)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.modula3
Subject: Porting Modula-3
Keywords: n
Date: 15 Apr 92 14:00:12 GMT
Organization: GTE Laboratories, Incorporated

I have not received any replies to my query regarding porting Modula-3
to an HP Series 700, aka Snake.  (Did that post get out?)  So anyway,
I am going to, as my time permits, attempt to do the port myself.

The most important question that I have (really more of a meta-question)
is whether I should ask my porting questions in this forum, or is there
somebody there at SRC that I should correspond with via e-mail?

That's it for now...
...Walker

--------
James Walker  <jjw1@gte.com>
GTE Laboratories, Waltham, MA
From: schwartz@roke.cs.psu.edu (Scott Schwartz)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.modula3
Subject: Re: why modula3?
Date: 6 Apr 92 22:55:43 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.7*2H#toj6
	<=q9H4j2i6@cs.psu.edu> <1992Apr6.200515.22885@watdragon.waterloo.edu>
Organization: penn state university, computer science

twhlai@watdragon.waterloo.edu (Tony Lai) writes:
   Are uppercase keywords really so bad?  It is simple to write a program
   to convert one's favorite lowercase keywords to proper uppercase keywords.

As I said, I was being uptight, but I do think this issue will turn a
lot of people off.  Yes, it is easy to write an encasing
program---maybe pp should be taught to do this as part of its other
functions.  But this admits that the common case is being penalized.
Eiffel, IMHO, does better, with keywords lowercase, and user supplied
classes (conventionally) named in uppercase.
Newsgroups: comp.lang.modula3
From: jdd@src.dec.com (John DeTreville)
Subject: Modula-3 Users Group Meeting...
Organization: DEC Systems Research Center
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 20:37:09 PDT

A few weeks ago here on comp.lang.modula3, Sam Harbison suggested a
Modula-3 get-together at this June's SIGPLAN meeting in San Francisco,
and Michel Dagenais from l'Ecole PolyTechnique de Montreal seconded
the idea of a Modula-3 BOF session.

Here at DEC SRC, we've also been thinking of organizing a Modula-3
Users' Group (MUG?) meeting this summer.  It looks like it might be a
good idea to merge the MUG meeting with the SIGPLAN Modula-3 BOF
session, and this message is to ask people whether they agree.

We were thinking of an all-day meeting, perhaps the Tuesday before
SIGPLAN proper begins.  We can line up a number of speakers from SRC,
and would like to solicit other potential speakers from outside.  We'd
especially like to hear about your experiences using the language and
the SRC system.  In return, we can talk about our own future plans,
and together we can sketch out where Modula-3 is going.

What we need to know is whether people can make it that Tuesday (June
16), and, if not, when might be better.  Our first choice would be to
meet at SRC--there's convenient public transit from San Francisco--but
let us know whether you'd prefer the conference site.  And of course,
a shorter meeting might be easier to schedule.

If you'd like to give a talk, send a title and a very short abstract.
We're also making our own list of people we'd like to hear speak, and
we'll be contacting you if you don't contact us first.

We'd also like to schedule some time for discussions about the
language and system.  If you'd like to place a topic on the agenda,
please mail it in.

And when you send all this in, please send it to me, jdd@src.dec.com.
Sooner is better than later.  I'll post followups to comp.lang.modula3.

Cheers,
John
From: goldberg@parc.xerox.com (David Goldberg)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.modula3
Subject: upper case keywords
Date: 8 Apr 92 19:01:33 GMT
Article-I.D.: arcturia.92Apr8.120144pdt.40742
To: m3

Even if you believe that it is poor practice to use the name 'root' as
an identifier for the root of a tree (and not everyone does), you
can't avoid using keywords as identifiers because the interfaces 
supplied with the Modula3 distribution have over 100 instances of such 
use.  (A few examples follow).  Thus tools which always upcase keywords
will not always do the right thing.
 
  VBT.i3:PROCEDURE MiscCodeTypeName(type: MiscCodeType): TEXT;

  VBT.i3:PROCEDURE PutProp(v: T; ref: REFANY); <* LL.sup < v *>

  Unix.i3:<*EXTERNAL*> PROCEDURE rename (from, to: char_star): int; 

  IntTable.i3:PROCEDURE Get (t: T; key: INTEGER; VAR value: REFANY): BOOLEAN;

  RTScheduler.i3:PROCEDURE Pause (until: Time.T; alertable := FALSE)
       RAISES {Thread.Alerted}; 

  Pixmap.i3:PROCEDURE FromBitmap(bits: Raw): T; 
 

David Goldberg
goldberg@parc.xerox.com
From: weber@rhrk.uni-kl.de (Christoph Weber-Fahr [KIT])
Newsgroups: comp.lang.modula3
Subject: Re: GATEKEEPER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Date: 6 Apr 92 12:46:07 GMT
Organization: University of Kaiserslautern, Germany

pfrants@cs.vu.nl (Frants P) writes:

>Why does gatekeeper.dec.com not recognize "anonymous"?
>When will this problem be out of this world???????

It's not gatekeeper.dec... they seem to have a problem in one of the 
top-level-nameservers, so that you don't get dec's gatekeeper.
Try the numerical address, that should work.

(Taken from a post to comp.protocols-tcpip.domains)

Regards

Christoph Weber-Fahr

-- 
  Christoph Weber-Fahr                  |  E-Mail:  weber@rhrk.uni-kl.de
  Universitaet Kaiserslautern,  KIT/IVS |  S-Mail:  Postfach 3049
  Tel. 0631/205-3391                    |           D-6750 Kaiserslautern
--------------------------  My personal opinion only    ---------------------
Newsgroups: comp.lang.modula3
From: David Goldberg <goldberg@parc.xerox.com>
Subject: trestle and SPARC running OpenWindows 3.0
To: m3
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 13:40:55 PDT

There is a problem with using trestle on SPARCs if you are running
Openwindows 3.0 (Openwin 2.0 works fine).

The problem is that any trestle application will crash the 3.0 xnews server.
There are two possible workarounds:

1.  Patch xnews.  The Sun bugID for this is 

        1082200 UngrabKey for a particular keycode after GrabKey
                for AnyKey crashes xnews

    Sun has a patch for this.  The one I got from Sun was labeled:

        Patch-ID# 100444-14
        Keywords: X11-NeWS, server, patch, xnews
        Synopsis: Openwindows V3.0 Server Patch 3000-22
        Date:04/01/92

2.  Patch Trestle

    replace

        X.XGrabKey(trsl.dpy, X.AnyKey, X.AnyModifier, ur.w, X.True, 
          X.GrabModeAsync, X.GrabModeAsync);

    with

        VAR min, max: INTEGER;
        BEGIN
          X.XDisplayKeycodes(trsl.dpy, ADR(min), ADR(max));
          FOR i := min TO max DO
            X.XGrabKey(trsl.dpy, i, X.AnyModifier, ur.w, X.True,
                       X.GrabModeAsync, X.GrabModeAsync);
          END;
        END;



  David Goldberg
  goldberg@parc.xerox.com
Newsgroups: comp.lang.modula3
From: muller@src.dec.com (Eric Muller)
Subject: Re: Porting Modula-3
Keywords: n
Reply-To: muller@src.dec.com (Eric Muller)
Organization: DEC Systems Research Center
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 10:32:35 PDT

In article <16141@bunny.GTE.COM>, jjw1@mongoose.gte.com (Jim Walker) writes:

> The most important question that I have (really more of a meta-question)
> is whether I should ask my porting questions in this forum, or is there
> somebody there at SRC that I should correspond with via e-mail?

m3-request@src.dec.com is probably the right place to ask that kind of
question.

-- 
Eric.
From: jjw1@mongoose.gte.com (Jim Walker)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.modula3
Subject: Modula-3 for a Snake...
Summary: has anyone done it?
Date: 8 Apr 92 15:18:41 GMT
Organization: GTE Laboratories, Incorporated

--------

Has anyone attempted or started on a port of the latest SRC Modula-3
stuff (2.04) to an HP 700 series machine?  I tried just compiling the
boot stuff for an HP300, but that did not get very far.  So, I was
thinking about making the big leap to do the port.

If anyone has already made a start (Piet?), maybe we should talk...
...Walker

--------
James Walker  <jjw1@gte.com>
GTE Laboratories, Waltham, MA
--
--------
James Walker  <jjw1@gte.com>
GTE Laboratories, Waltham, MA
From: mjordan@src.dec.com (Mick Jordan)
Subject: Re: M3TK for M3 2.05 ?
Reply-To: mjordan@src.dec.com (Mick Jordan)
Organization: DEC Systems Research Center
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 92 09:30:21 PDT

In article <9204051424.AA22562@riposte>, wyant@centerline.com writes:
> Is there a new version of M3TK forthcoming ?
> I'm trying build the current version under
> 2.05, but lib/oli gets a significant number
> of syntax errors. I thought that before I
> delved into this, I'd see if there was a
> version that compiled under M3 2.0 coing
> out soon.
> 

Yes. I am preparing it for release to gatekeeper as I write. Barring some disaster
it will be available by the end of the week.

Mick Jordan
Newsgroups: comp.lang.modula3