HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gene@wucs1.wustl.edu (_Floor_)
Subject: Re: Tires : Wet Conditions
Organization: The K-Zoo Crew
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 18:13:43 GMT

In article <BvrDyp.8IB@hplabs.hpl.hp.com> potamian@hpl.hp.com (Spyros Potamianos) writes:
] And for sure tire width increases friction (otherwise they wouldn't use
] wide tires in racing). At least in dry roads... Has anybody noticed the
] ridiculously skinny tires some rally cars wear when they are racing on the
] snow??? (while the same cars use much wider tires when racing in paved

It isn't so much the need for the tires to be 'skinny' as the fact that
in wet conditions, the tire _must_ have as much contact as possible
with the road. In rain, treaded tires provide channels for dispersion
of the water, allowing the water to 'get out of the way' for certain
surfaces of the tire to contact the road itself. Without treads, the
water cannot 'get out of the way' and forms a sheet between the surface
of the tires and the road. The smoother the surface of the tire, the
less chance any of it will break through the surface of the water. So
a smooth tire tends to ride up on top of the water, where friction
is almost absent!

In snow, compression of the top layer of ice crystals by anything
(in this case, a tire) turns the ice into water. Most substances
expand going from solid to liquid, but ice/water is an exception.
Thus, although ice itself could provide something firm on which
to move, its surface compresses to water when pressure is placed
on it. So again, you have the situation where you are driving
on a thin sheet of water. Spikes penetrate through the water to
the ice for firm gripping.

Thin tires versus wide tires: With a wide tire, the weight placed
on it is distributed over a greater area. Wider tires thus have
less weight per unit surface area in contact with the water. The more
weight per unit surface area means more likelyhood of breaking
the surface of the water to get down to the gripable (new word?) stuff.
This is precisely why front wheel drive in front engine cars is
an advantage in snow/wet conditions: there's more weight on the tires
that move the car. This is also why speed sometimes _helps_(!)
cars which produce downforce with speed (F1, IndyCars, GTPs, etc.)
since the car is more likely to push its way down through the
sheet of water.

Well, I think I've thought myself out on the subject.

  _____    "But you can't really call that a dance. It's a walk." - Tony Banks
 /  ___\  ___  __ ___   ___      _____________   gene@cs.wustl.edu
 | / __  / _ \ | /   \ / _ \     |  physics  |   gene@lechter.wustl.edu
 | \_\ \ | __/ |  /\ | | __/     |racquetball|   gev1@cec2.wustl.edu
 \_____/ \___/ |_| |_| \___/     |volleyball |   gene@camps.phy.vanderbilt.edu
 Gene Van Buren, Kzoo Crew(Floor), Washington U. in St. Lou - #1 in Volleyball
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: cpalmer@dingo.rtp.dg.com ()
Subject: Re: Top Five Drivers/Top Three Tracks
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 92 16:17:45 GMT
Organization: Data General Corporation, Westboro MA

In article <718541001.17549@minster.york.ac.uk> pete@minster.york.ac.uk writes:
>Top 5 drivers:
>
>	1)	Gilles Villeneuve -- sums up what motorsport is all about
>	2)	Jim Clark	  -- the ultimate talent
>	3)	Stirling Moss	  -- could drive _anything_ well
>	4)	Ronnie Peterson	  -- the most exciting driver ever
>	5)	Chris Amon	  -- beautiful to watch, hideously unlucky

If we are tlaking only about those no longer with us, then surely
there must be a spot for Jochen Rindt. Unbelievably fast, especially
in the wet.

My favourite circuit: Mt. Panorama (Bathurst)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Palmer                            "Ashes to ashes,
Data General Corporation                 dust to dust,
Network Systems Development Division     If Lillee don't get you,
cpalmer@dingo.webo.dg.com                Thommo must!"
From: slana@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (charles.e.slana)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Formula 440 for sale
Keywords: road racing or solo
Date: 7 Oct 92 17:02:19 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbnewsd.1992Oct7.170219.8749
Distribution: usa
Organization: AT&T



Priorities change and it looks like I need to take a racing hiatus
at least for a few years 'til the kids get bigger, so...

Formula 440 Package for Sale
============================

1986 Zink Z-19
Kawasaki engine, electric start
Polaris clutches
Goodyears have plenty of tread, plus spare
    set never-mounted Hoosiers
Camlock harness
Extinguisher
Braided brake lines
AFCO Brake masters new 9/92.
Tilton dash-adjustable brake bias bar
Tach, water temp gauge
Logbook: runoffs history, last road race 8/91,
    3 Solo II's (C-Modified) in '92
    (Note: for road racing, will need
    fuel cell and maybe extinguisher recharge.
    Currently equipped with 3-quart karting
    fuel tank legal for Solo II).
Trailer: '91 Chilton tilt-bed with homemade
    ramps, 13" wheels.  Single axle, sturdy,
    compact.  Includes detachable wood sides for
    alternate use as cargo hauler.

Package price: $4200.

Located in Chicago suburb.
For more information, call me at:
	(708) 979-0326	Days
	(708) 717-7602  Eve/Wknd
    

Chuck Slana
AT&T Bell Labs
Naperville, IL
email: ..!att!ihlpm!slana
   or  slana@ihlpm.att.com
Xref: sparky rec.autos.sport:11200 rec.autos.tech:13885
From: damon@tc.fluke.COM (Damon Darley)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport,rec.autos.tech
Subject: motor cycle carbs on race cars
Date: 12 Oct 92 15:57:06 GMT
Article-I.D.: tc.1992Oct12.155706.7994
Followup-To: poster
Organization: John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, WA


I am looking for people who have had experiance using Mikuni side draft
motorcycle carbs on race cars.

I am getting to the point where I have to choose between those and Webbers.
The application is a 16 valve Nissan 2.0 liter engine that will be used
for circle track racing.. 

Any information would be usefull.

Thanks Damon

(206) 356 6049, or E-Mail

-- 
Damon Darley	damon@tc.fluke.COM	John Fluke Mfg. Co. Inc.
					PO Box C9090    MS 99
		(206) 356-6049		Everett, WA 98206   USA
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: NASCAR & Mickey D's
From: adams@spss.com (Steve Adams)
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 14:12:40 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: SPSS Inc.
Keywords: Coke, Pepsi

pjg.wbst200ul@xerox.com (Paul J. Graziano) writes:


>In article 718554191@spssig, adams@spss.com (Steve Adams) writes:
>>bob@ncube.com (Bob Kehoe) writes:
>>
>>>Also, will this deal force the hand of, say, Burger King?  Will the 
>>>hamburger wars spill over to motorsports?  Either way, it's good for the
>>>fans, as this involvement means racing continues.
>>>
>>We can replace the Beer Wars with Cola Wars, too....I'm wondering why
>>Pepsi, Coke, etc aren't sponsoring cars....
>
>Coke DOES sponsor a car:  Mello Yello is a Coke product.  Todd Bodine drove 
>a one time deal at Watkins Glen this year sponsored by Diet Pepsi.  It was a 
>pretty good looking car, actually...  And you can also look for the 7up decals
>on Davey Allison's car...

I was speking of the brand names in particular...Ie a 'Coke' car, etc.

>Also, they both sponsor races.  Ever hear of the CocaCola 600, the Pepsi 400, 
>the Mello Yello 500...
Yes, this I know...
>
>I'd say that the soft drink companies are pretty much involved in NASCAR 
>already!
Again, I was talking about major sponsorship of teams...

 -Steve
--
  The opinions expressed above are those of the author and not SPSS, Inc.
                         -------------------
   adams@spss.com                                  Phone: (312) 329-3522
   Steve Adams        "Space-age cybernomad"       Fax:   (312) 329-3558
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: scdorcy@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (JAMES DORCEY)
Subject: Re: MRN coverage of Charlotte?
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
Distribution: na
Date: 13 Oct 1992 11:18 EST  

In article <92287.082549BWF2@psuvm.psu.edu>, <BWF2@psuvm.psu.edu> writes...
>In article <tlm1.718928929@Ra.MsState.Edu>, tlm1@Ra.MsState.Edu (Terry Matula)
>says:

>>I usually watch the NASCAR races on TV and also listen to them on MRN.
>>My local MRN station had the race on Sunday all right, but it wasn't MRN.
>>I think it was called the "Performance Racing Network (PRN?)."  Anybody
>>have any info on this?  Does PRN and MRN both cover races, and my local
>>station just decided to switch.  Or was this a one-time deal?  Kinda like
>>how TBS and TNN are trying to emulate the good job ESPN has been doing for
>>years.
>>In my opinion, PRN was certainly nowhere near the quality of MRN.

>        The only time I've listened to PRN is during a Charllotte
>        race. They aren't bad. Definately better than Squire and co.
>        I remember Eli Gould once mentioning the reason they don't
>        do Charllotte races but can't remember it. Humpy maybe?

If memory serves me correctly (since the media is c'ball's thing, maybe 
he'll help me out), PRN is affiliated with Charlotte & Atlanta in the same 
way that MRN is affiliated with Daytona, etal.  While I am not certain, it 
would come as no surprise if someone were to mention that Bruton Smith is part 
owner of PRN (me thinks there may be some affiliation between MRN and 
International Speedway Corporation :-) ).

Anyway, PRN coverage of Sunday's race was in no means a one time deal and 
PRN coverage of a Charlotte race is nothing new.  Somehow I think that 
Humpy Wheeler's perspective is that if you don't like TBS or PRN coverage, 
come to the track and watch it in person.  I'm sure they'll make more room 
:-)

JD
From: bspahh@gdr.bath.ac.uk (Andrew Henry)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: carbon brakes [was: something about the Honda RA168E engine]
Date: 8 Oct 92 09:32:53 GMT
Organization: School of Biological Sciences, University of Bath, UK

In the referenced article, b102smi@utarlg.uta.edu (George M. Smiley) writes:
>(Mark Jackson) writes...
>(Richard Banks) forwards comments by A.H.Henry@gdr.bath.ac.uk (Andrew
>>Henry), buried in the middle of which we find:
>> 
>>>     The main advantage
>>>     with the carbon brakes is that they are about a half of the weight of
>>>     the iron ones.
>> 
>>Then how is it that they dramatically reduce stopping distance?  

[An explanation by George]

There was an article on carbon brakes in Autosport a few months ago.
It said that you could make cast iron discs with a higher coefficient
of friction than for carbon, which would give a shorter braking
distance.  I presume this would be using suitable brake pads.  The
problem is that they would be more susceptible to overheating, than the 
equivalent carbon discs,  leading to fading and warping.  Perhaps
this is another "main advantage" for carbon brakes !

[Followed by a question from George]

>I, for one, look for the day that engine builders begin to exploit
>carbon-carbon technology to make such stuff as pistons and connecting
>rods. Such designs would make for some very high-revving motors which
>in turn would lead to more power. There exist motorcycle race engines
>using both, but, they are few and far between. Why none in the self
>proclaimed leader of motorsport engineering, F1 ? 
>
>Against the rules ? Infeasible for larger motors ?

Composites certainly get used for things like rocker covers.  
The problem is that you're hard pressed to tell what materials
are being used inside an engine.  If composite pistons were
to break up, you would get some very comprehensive and
expensive engine blowups.  At least with a motorbike engine
you only have a few cylinders to worry about.  


			Andrew  Henry
Sempre  Gilles					bspahh@gdr.bath.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: kevinh@hslrswi.hasler.ascom.ch (kevinh)
Subject: Re: Indy in urope???!!!
Originator: kevinh@nath
Reply-To: kevinh@hslrswi.hasler.ascom.ch
Organization: Ascom Hasler AG
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 12:01:11 GMT


In article <1992Oct16.030730.14386@DIALix.oz.au>, ajd@DIALix.oz.au (Anthony Doig) writes:
|> In <1992Oct14.170443.22241@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> dwood@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Deron A Wood) writes:
|> 
|> >Interesting tidbit in USA Today (10-14), and I quote
|> 
|> >"The IndyCar cicuit reached agreement with the Federation International Sport 
|> >Auto to stage up to six international oval races next season.
|> 
|> How many ovals in Europe are there that are capable of running Indycars.


None hopefully!

kevinh@hasler.ascom.ch
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: rlsx@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (russell.l.stauffer)
Subject: Re: *** Design Logic Faults ***
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 16:34:55 GMT
Summary:  Electric fan in racing

In article <6842@transfer.stratus.com> pr@last.pubs.stratus.com (Paul Ryan) writes:
>
>Most newer cars are designed this way. I always hot wire the fan so when  
>the key is on, the fan is on.
>
>Having the fan run when the engine is off (but hot) doesn't do too much  
>good because it cools the water in the radiator, but the water pump is not  
>operating so the only way for the engine to cool is via convection.
>

I use an electric fan on a small block Chevy V8 powered race car.  It
definitely cools off much faster when the fan is left on after the engine
is shut off (compared to not having the fan running).  The water temperature
always increases considerably when the engines are shut off.  Having the fan
on seems to stem this rise, and actually begin cooling much faster.  When
the electric water pump drive is perfected, then we can circulate the coolant
as well!

Russ
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: b102smi@utarlg.uta.edu (George M. Smiley)
Subject: Re: Speed Comparison
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: The University of Texas at Arlington
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 19:50:00 GMT

>>glenn@misty.boeing.com (Glenn Cirlincione) wrote:
>>I cannot buy such a disparity in lap times as mentioned at Suzuka.  However,
>>I do not have any data at hand to disprove those times.  I believe times
>>between the two series are much closer with cars faster than bikes, the 
>>margin depends on the type of circuit (fast circuit = more gap between the
>>two).
>>
>>Glenn

Now, look what you made do.

Try this data on for size:

Track       92 Pole Time 500 cc GP       91 Pole Time F1 GP

Suzuka         2:20.324 (rain)              1:34.700 (dry)
Catalunya      1:48.549                     1:18.751
Hockenheim     1:58.325                     1:37.087
Magny-Cours    1:38.524                     1:14.599
Hungaroring    1:43.028                     1:16.147
Interlagos     1:43.403                     1:16.392
Kyalami        1:39.548                     ??????? (92)

20-30 seconds down the line, not exactly close.

Even more data for the nonbeliever:

Track       Motorcycle Lap Record (91)    91 IndyCar Pole Time

Portland       1:11.000                        56.497
Mid-Ohio       1:30.800                      1:09.475
Road America   2:18.523                      1:47.090
Laguna Seca    1:25.838                      1:12.095

Oh, but wait, you guys will love this one:

Track       Motorcycle Lap Record  (91)   91 Nascar Pole Time

Watkins Glen   1:32.340                      1:11.851
Sears Point    1:42.000                      1:40.095

The last two bike records are fairly old and could easily be broken by
a 500, 750 Superbike, or F-USA bike if FIM, AMA, WSB, or WERA decided
to put on a race there.

I have last years records for virtually every US track that motorcycles
ran on, so, if anyone can come up with a similar list for automobiles
we could expand the list.


George

Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: bob@ncube.com (Bob Kehoe)
Subject: Re: I Hate Phoenicians!
Organization: nCUBE Computers, Beaverton, Oregon, U.S.A.
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 16:16:25 GMT

In article <10@tr.UUCP> chip@tr.UUCP (chip ragan) writes:
>I've had fellow racers move from here to the Northwest and they've all preferred
>the tracks there.  I supposed the grass is always greener.... 
>

.....I guess you weren't aware of our 'rainless summer' this year,
reservoir dried up (no snow last winter in the Cascades), water
restrictions, etc.  

I guess what I was really trying to say is that nowhere in the PNW
do we have a decent (at least 1 mile oval).  Lots of <1 mile bullrings,
but nothing to attract Winston Cup calibre stuff.  Probably the closest
thing is up in Monroe, Washington - a 5/8mile track (Evergreen
Speedway).  Every summer there's the big Winston West Race (Motorcraft
500) and they bring in a couple of WC big names for an attraction, but
that's about it.

They tried Winston West at our PIR once in the '80's, but it was a flop
(poor promoters).  Ditto the Tacoma street race.  On the side, Seattle
gets the annual NHRA Northwest Nationals instead of Portland because the
political hassles between the local neighborhood groups and the city
(who owns PIR) were poorly handled.  There has been a long-standing feud
between the neighborhood groups close to PIR and the city due to the
noise problems.  There are a very small minority out there who won't be
happy until PIR is shut down forever.  Both PIR and the Portland
Speedway (just across the freeway) have very stringent db regulations
and they are STRICTLY ENFORCED! (note to you guys who are planning to
bring your racecars up here to run).  More than likely, you WILL be
given the meatball flag if you're a minute level over.  I'm not quite
sure the specific limit at PIR, but it's 90db over at the Speedway,
coupled with a strict curfew.  All the racing is on a time limit.

-cball-
From: svissa@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Sirish Vissa)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Formula SAE
Date: 14 Oct 92 17:20:04 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center

In earlier articles there were people talking about a single seat formula car,
well, This is done through the Society of Automotive Engineers.  
it is known as Formula SAE.  I dont have any other info on it though.
          ciao
        Sirish

-- 
| Sirish 'RACE OR DIE' Vissa                       |--\__            _____  |
| Gen II  Motorsports, India              /-------|     \---\       /  27 | |
| svissa@mentor.cc.purdue.edu        /--\/__/-----------------\_ /--\\----/ |
| sirish@mn.ecn.purdue.edu       _/_|_()_|__|##|_FERRARI______|:|_()_|      |
From: humpty@tartarus.uwa.edu.au (Daniel Ong)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Senna test drive Williams
Date: 8 Oct 1992 08:18:44 GMT
Organization: The University of Westrn Australia
NNTP-Posting-Host: tartarus.uwa.edu.au

cheung@mlb.geomechanics.csiro.au (Lawrence Cheung) writes:

>	Prost tested the William Renault on the week after the Portugese GP.
>	It was reported by SBS sport in Australia. 
>	
>	From the 0055 Info line in Australia, he was said to have clocked a time 
>	of 1:16.0... which was the fastest time on the test day. Alesi was
>	second with a time of 1:16.9... For comparison, Mansell clocked a time
>	of 1:13... in his qualifying for the Portugese GP.

Prost et al were using the smaller tires in preparation for next year. 
Therefore their times were expected to be slower than this year's times.
I bet if you got Mansell to test on the smaller tires, he wouldn't have
been able to handle it and would have been a lot slower than Prost. 
After all, Prost beat the shit out of him during the Ferrari days.
Interesting to see that Alesi was only .9 of a second slower than Prost.
He was testing on a Ferrari wasn't he?  What was that earlier crap about
Damon Hill having a faster time than Prost (earlier posting by I dont
know who).
From: bspahh@gdr.bath.ac.uk (Andrew Henry)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: F1: Frank Williams on his drivers for '93
Date: 7 Oct 92 08:53:25 GMT
Organization: School of Biological Sciences, University of Bath, UK

The Motoring News has a short interview with Frank Williams, quoted
without permission ...

  "The Senna thing is dead and buried," he declared brusquely, perhaps 
   as much to convince himself, and with Patrese staying at Benetton 
   despite resolute efforts to buy him back, and Williams' enthusiasm 
   for Al Unser Jnr appearing under firm control, the choice has 
   polarised to Martin Brundle or Damon Hill.

  "Martin doesn't qualify that well, and he knows that," said Frank.
  "He has promised that he'll really work at it.  But he races well
   With him we could rely on a safe 50 points which would be enough
   for us to win the constructors championship."

  "Damon?  Well of course we know what he can do from his testing
   for us.  He's very quick.  On the third lap he'll do a time just
   like Nigel.  And his GP runs for us have been very fast.  But he 
   has no race experience.

  "Its just not easy to choose.  If we go the wrong way we could waste
   a lot of money next year.  In a years time the sponsors might be
   very unhappy.  Do we play safe, or say to the hell with it, lets
   be adventurous.  I was inclined that way this morning after Patrick
   Head had been on at me, but then he came in and said he had been 
   thinking about it and maybe I was right, maybe the conservative
   route was the way to go!"

   Although a decision had been promised by the end of last week, that
   came and went.  "I know we keep dicking about," agreed Frank, "but
   the choice just isn't black and white."


			Andrew  Henry
Sempre  Gilles					bspahh@gdr.bath.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: welty@cabot.balltown.cma.COM (richard welty)
Subject: Re: New Galmer at Nazareth.  Why?
Organization: New York State Institute for Sebastian Cabot Studies
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 17:58:50 GMT

In article <71839246512645@c00484-224wi.eos.ncsu.edu> jcsmith@eos.ncsu.edu (Jay C. Smith) writes:
>Will Rahal be using a Truesports chassis?  I thought the future of that was
>still very much up in the air, especially for '93.

the latest word is that rahal liked the 92 truesports very much, and that
he wants to run it.

richard
-- 
richard welty                            518-393-7228
welty@cabot.balltown.cma.com
  ``if you can read this, mario, you're too close''
    -- bumper sticker seen on a CART safety truck
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport