HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kenw@austlcm.sps.mot.com 
Subject: Re: Fond memory of my college days.
Organization: Motorola Inc, Austin, Texas
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 15:23:46 GMT

In article <CHANG.92Apr17164423@azabu.tkl.iis.u-tokyo.ac.jp> chang@tkl.iis.u-tokyo.ac.jp (Yaudong Chang) writes:
>In article <1992Apr17.044534.28135@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> tsai@tecrus.enet.dec.com writes:
>
> tsai >I do have some fond memory of my college days, and that is "May2-Jwu2-
> tsai >Sai4" between Jau1-Da4 and Chin1-Hwa2. 
>
>Mr. Tsai, you got my old memory of college days, too.
>"May2-Jwu2-Sai4" is the contest between NCTU and NTHU every year.
>But in my NCTU days, only one time held on 1983, the next year 1984,
>1985, 1986 did not held due to "unknown reason". Does the "May2-Jwu-Sai4"
>still exist now ?
>
>
>================================================================
>				2nd. grade of Doctoral Course
>  Give Peace a Chance           chang@tkl.iis.u-tokyo.ac.jp
>       --John Lennon            3 Dept. Takagi Lab.
>				Industrial Institute of Science
>				Univ. of Tokyo.

How many of you guys were at Chiao-Ta when the first "PLUM-BAMBOO Contest" 
started in 1968?
From: Dan_Jacobson@ATT.COM
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: "orthodox" Hakka dialect in Taiwan?
Date: 6 Apr 92 20:15:39 GMT
Organization: AT&T-BL, Naperville IL, USA

>>>>> On 3 Apr 92 12:33:59 GMT, bbs@medsys.rn.com (Public BBS System) said:

Chou1> Also there are several dialects in Hakka. In Taiwan the two
Chou1> major Hakka dialects are Hai3 Lu4 and Si4 Xiang4. There are
Chou1> some difference in accent between these two but Hakka people
Chou1> can understand with little effort. They may not be able to
Chou1> speak the other one though.

Chou1> Comrade Hsieh, let me ask you a question. Is there a Hakka
Chou1> dialect which is considered as the ORTHODOX Hakka?

Harkin's 1975 textbook "Hakka One" (Maryknoll, P.O.B. 149, Taichung,
Taiwan.  No tape available) says "Miaoli Hakka is the most common [in
Taiwan]".  "It is the closest to Mei2Xian4 (city in Guang3Dong1
province) Hakka.  [it is also called Si4Xian4 ('4 counties') Hakka].

Other books and tapes take Si4Xian4 as standard.  However ChungHsing
Univ. (Taichung) Zhong1wen2xi4 professor Chen2 Yong3Bao3 treats
Hai3Lu4 (name from 2 cities on the eastern Guang3Dong1 coast,
Hai3Feng1 and Lu4Feng1) Hakka and Si4Xian4 Hakka equally in his
publications.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: cyeh@descartes.waterloo.edu (Woody)
Subject: Re: ChineseTalk on PostScript Level II Printer?
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 15:06:54 GMT

In article <1992Apr16.222825.18098@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> cwt2@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Charles W Tang) writes:
>
>                    "All the world's phenomena and ideas
>                     Are unreal, like a dream,
>                     Like magic, and like a reflected image.
>                     All the world's phenomena and ideas
>                     Are impermanent, like a water bubble,
>                     Like dew and lightning.
>                     Thus should one observe and understand
>                     All the world's phenonmena and ideas."
>
>or, in Chinese,      yi2-qie4 you3-wei2-fa3,
>                     ru2 meng4-huan4 pao4-ying3,
>                     ru2 lu4 yi4 ru2 dian4,
>                     ying1 zuo4 ru2-shi4 guan4/1.
>
>-Charles
>
>  **** Om Ma-Ni Pe-Me Hung **** | "All the world's phenomena and ideas
>  ==============================|  Are unreal, like a dream
>      Charles Wei-Ting Tang     |  Like magic, and like a reflected image."
>   cwt2@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu  |  -- The Diamond Sutra

	Good Jing1 Gang1 Jing1!
-- 
*^^^^^^^^^^^ Ruo4 Shue3 San1 Qian1, Zhi3 Qyu3 Yi4 Piao2 Ying3.^^^^^^^^^^*
|   (Althought Ruo4 river is very long, what I drink is only one cup.)  |
|-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|
*___________Ye4, Zhong1 Yi4 (Woody)_____Another Kaohsiung Dude._________*
From: ericlaw@vax.muskingum.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Control?! (The Six-Year...)
Date: 12 Apr 92 08:45:11 -0600
Organization: Muskingum College

In article <Apr.12.05.35.14.1992.9683@math.rutgers.edu>, lko@math.rutgers.edu (lko) writes:
> In article <1992Apr11.223753.29387@watserv1.waterloo.edu>, ptyshih@watnow.waterloo.edu (Paul T.Y. Shih (Taku or Pear)) writes:
> 
>> 	Well said! I dunno why there are so many people out there
>> 	blinding their eyes with their hands, deafing their ears
>> 	with their finger. Most of the people in Taiwan proudly
>                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> 	regard themselves as citizens of R.O.C.. It's ok if you
>         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> 
> 
>     Could you cite a few facts to support this claim? Thank you.
> 
> 
> lehhun


	** There are tons of facts described in the Central Daily.
From: pcli@uicadf.csl.uiuc.edu (Ping-Chung Li)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: to proud citizens
Date: 16 Apr 1992 19:52:19 GMT
Organization: Coordinated Science Lab., University of Illinois
NNTP-Posting-Host: uicadf.csl.uiuc.edu

In article <1992Apr16.3716.3716@Eng.Sun.COM> peter@Eng.Sun.COM (Peter Liu) writes:
>A country is worth of loving only if 
>the country is established on the basis of justice and love.

	When ROC was funded in 1911, her goal was indeed the above.

>When a government consistently cheats its people, prevails unjust, 
>and commits crimes by promoting the belief of nationalism (or blind loyalty),
>the country/nation under its ruling becomes a machine, a tool
>for that crime committing government.

	Then get rid of the government, it has nothing to do with the country.

>I don't think there is a good chance for KMT to become less evil in the future.
>To render loyalty to this kind of country is blind and meaningless.
				   -------	
	KMT is not a country.

>But when talking about being proud of a country/nation/government/party, 
							----------------
>a second thought on what does these actually represent 
>is necessary.

	People only said they are proud of the country, no one mentioned the
	government or party.

>Need a mirror, proud citizens?
>When a person from Mainland said
>"I am proud of Chinese culture." or
>"I am proud of being a Chinese (in ethical/non-political sense).",
>there is no objection in my mind.
>But when a person from Mainland said
>"I am proud of People Republic of China."
>"I am proud of the Chinese Communist Government/Party."
>I feel the person is as guilty as Li-Peng.

	Being proud of PRC and being proud of CCP are different. Many 
	mainlanders are proud of the former but hate the latter.
	I don't think they are as guilty as Li Peng.
>
>So, proud citizens, see the difference?
>
>Peter


	So, do you see the difference? If no, let me tell you a story.
	11 years ago, there was an article on Jian4 Zhon1 Chin1 nia2. The
	author mentioned "Loving one's country is not equal to loving one's
	government." He got some verbal attack from one or two teachers
	for reasons you know why. (Thanks to the freedom tradition of 
	the school, that edition was still issued. This kind of tradition 
	is always one reason I love Jian4 Zhon1.)
	Now if you insist being proud of ROC = being proud of KMT, I 
	don't see any difference between you and those teachers, only 
	to the opposite extreme.
Ping
From: bbs@medsys.rn.com (Public BBS System)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: HSNU needs you!
Date: 16 Apr 92 00:58:57 GMT
Reply-To: bbs@medsys.UUCP (Public BBS System)
Organization: Med-Systems, Kingsport, Tennessee

In article <12420@tamsun.tamu.edu> hung@ee.tamu.edu (Tzu-Chien Hung) writes:
>In article <1992Apr14.100425.2943@vax.muskingum.edu+ ericlaw@vax.muskingum.edu writes:
>+
>+	** Hay, I think Jian Guo Zhon Hsieh is better than HSNU.
>+	   People from Jian Zhon should have a better high school
>+	   life. Shouldn't it? 
>
>Eric, you are absolutely right.
>

So what about a person like me who was from a wild chicken high school?
But I am not the worst. A friend of mine told me the following story.

While in Cheng2 Gong1 Ling3, he was asked from what high school he was 
graduated. He answered he was graduated from Qian2 Shu4 high school.
The sergeant said to himself:"Qian2 Shu4? I should have taken the
University Entrance Exam too."

Chou1
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: scc53091@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (TAIWAN!!! 5/18/92 )
Subject: Re: to proud citizens
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 03:21:23 GMT

chchang@acsu.buffalo.edu (Chun-Shi Chang) writes:

>peter@Eng.Sun.COM (Peter Liu) writes:
>>
>>My conclusion:
>><1> People's pride in their own people and loyalty to their country 
>>can be easily and cheaply  transformed (by politicians) into
>>tools/weapons for politicians.
>>
>><2> As long as a country is NOT of the people, NOT by the people, 
>>NOT for the people, it's meaningless to render loyalty.
>>In addition,  it's extremely dangerous to render loyalty/obedience to 
>>a dishonest government like the current KMT government in Taiwan,
>>which tries every possible way to mislead its people.
>>
>>Peter

>[Well, being a "proud citizen" myself, I feel obliged to response. :-)]

>Basically, I don't understand what's wrong with being proud and loyal
>to one's country?  Would you be loyal to ROT? If yes, what's wrong with
>people loyal to ROC?  If no, why bother to create a new and independent
>country to which you couldn't even "render loyalty"?

>Are you trying to bring up the analogy here?  Because Germans were proud
>of their Third Reich, so loyalty in citizens of ROC can be "cheaply
>transformed into tools"? Then please tell us what kind of tools/weapons
>we (the proud citizens of ROC) can be transformed into? :-)

>Besides, you missed the point, no one is trying to "render loyalty" to
>KMT. It is ROC we are talking about.  Remember KMT != ROC (not sure
>if DPP != ROT).

>-Chunshi 

Mr. Peter Liu,

Yeah man!  What are you thinking huh?  Tell us what's so screwy about being
a proud citizen...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Steve C. Chen			             Email: scc53091@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu |	
| University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign  	***************************** |
| College of Engineering		        *  Dude raised in Kaohsiung * |
| Aeronautical & Astronautical Engineering	***************************** |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.china
From: horne-scott@CS.YALE.EDU (Scott Horne)
Subject: Re: The Six-Year National Development Plan for Taiwan, "R.O.C"
Organization: Computer "Science" Dept, Yale University
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 18:22:31 GMT

In article <1992Apr8.012310.54291@cc.usu.edu>, slqh8@cc.usu.edu writes:
<
<Many years ago, there was a writer named Lu3 Hsun4.  He construced a funny
<guy named Ar1 Q.  Ar1 Q was an optimistic man.  People insulted him, beated
<him.  But he didn't care because he thought he replied them in the mind and
<enjoied it.  He was frustrated by the dramatic progressing world.  But he
<didn't care because he just simply blinded his eye by hand.
<It's a funny story.

That's all you got out of the story?!  So much for Taiwan's "education"
system....

					--Scott

-- 
Scott Horne                               ...!{harvard,cmcl2,decvax}!yale!horne
horne@cs.Yale.edu      SnailMail:  Box 7196 Yale Station, New Haven, CT   06520
203 436-1848                Residence:  Rm 1848 Silliman College, New Haven, CT
ZANG4 HAN4 YI4 JIA1 / GONG4 JIAN4 ZHONG1HUA2!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: zzuo@iastate.edu (Zhiqi Zuo)
Subject: Re: Most Ridiculous ? (Re: The Six-Year National Development Plan for Taiwan, "R.O.C")
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 19:54:15 GMT

In article <Apr.15.11.36.55.1992.21946@math.rutgers.edu> lko@math.rutgers.edu (lko) writes:
>In article <1992Apr15.010401.6900@news.iastate.edu>, zzuo@iastate.edu (Zhiqi Zuo) writes:
>> In article <Apr.14.19.19.48.1992.10707@math.rutgers.edu> lko@math.rutgers.edu (lko) writes:
>> >In article <1992Apr14.180021.17755@news.iastate.edu>, zzuo@iastate.edu (Zhiqi Zuo) writes:
>> >
>> >> Do you know what is the percentage of the people who were literate at the time
>> >> , in China ? "Gao1 Xiao3 " , not " Gao1 Xiao4" was a vwry admiring education
>> >> level at the time . " Gao1 Xiao3" ==== junior elementary school .
>>                                           ^^^^^^^ should be senior
>> 
>> >    Good. Let's make a comparison. At the time Taiwan's elementary 
>>                                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ before 1948 ?
>
>
>    That was 1942 statistics. A few other figures at the time
>(p. 693, Taiwanese 400 Years History):

Comparable to Shanghai at the time .  Really impressive . How about the 
college level education ?

Thanks for the answer .

>
>1. Industry grew 1600 times in 40 years. Industry made up about 50%
                                ^^^^^^^^
What's the period ?

>   of total production. Taiwan's industry was next only to Japan in 
>   Asia.

Before 1946 ? ( Just for curiosity , and to allow more people know it .)

>
>2. Agriculture: Farmland increased by 30%, average yields up 4 folds,
>   total agricultural output up 12 folds, in the 40 years.
>
>3. Foreign Trade. Up 33 folds in 40 years. Annual net export was
>   25-30%.
>
>4. Ratio of (modern) physicians to total population was about 1 to 
>   2000. Contagious diseases were largely elimated.

Are All the data for before 1946 ?

>
>    
>    As a side note, my parents had not seen any outbreak of epidemic
>when they grew up. They only experienced it after ROC took over, and
>I still have a vague memory of cholera scare. 
>   
>
>
>lehhun

Thanks for the information . I found there are piles of books about
Taiwan in libary .
From: hhwu@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (eric.wu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Re : Shipping gold to Taiwan during the civil war
Keywords: No
Date: 16 Apr 92 15:18:41 GMT
Organization: AT&T

>
>  But One of my friends here told me that About Half A Year Ago
>he read a similar article in Hong Kong's " Ming Bao " 
>or " 90s ", which gave details about the whole process and the
>background , the amount of the gold and its effects to Taiwan .
              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>  He said the whole thing was plotted by Jing Guo .
>  Someone else here must have had read the article too . Need 
>help to get the information for us . 
>
>So long , so sorry .
>
>Sincerely ,
>
>  Zhiqi Zuo

Ming Bao and 90's should be available in the university Chinese 
library.  Would somebody please look it up and post a summary?  
Thanks.

I vaguely remember CCK in his "Peace in the storm" (?) mentioned
that he shipped the gold in ShunHai banks to Taiwan while he father
was forced to "Shiah Yee" and KMT was losing.  However, I can't 
convince myself that the Chiang's were going to use the gold for 
Taiwan.  Whether the gold was actually used for something constructive, 
I don't know.

Eric
ewu@qsun.att.com
From: slqh8@cc.usu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: NON-POLITICAL Gin1 Young's novels
Date: 8 Apr 92 05:56:41 GMT
Organization: Utah State University


>>Which dynasty was 'Shiou4 Our4 Jiang1 Hoo2(lake)' in ?
>>Gin Young himself said this novel does not belong to any dynasty.
>>Well, I don't believe him. We can find some clues in the novel.
>>
> The best I can tell is that it happened no earlier than Song dynasty.
> What is your guess?
> 
> Chou1

****In my opinion, it was in Yuan dynasty.
    The reason is that Jih4 Yueh4 Shen2 Chiao4 (sun moon god group) in
    Shiou4 Our4 Jiang1 Hoo2 seemed the former of Ming dynasty.


--Chao-hsing Lee
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: ericlaw@vax.muskingum.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Jian4 Guo2 Sr. High (was Re: Those good old days...)
Date: 16 Apr 92 15:52:39 -0600
Organization: Muskingum College

In article <CMM.0.90.2.703386876.jamesou@zygote.hsc.usc.edu>, jamesou@ZYGOTE.HSC.USC.EDU (James Ou) writes:
> 
> yu@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (meng-lin.mark.yu) wrote:
> 
>> By the time I left Jian4 Zhong1, they had
>>torn most part of Hong2 Lo2 down.
> 
> What?!! Hong Lou was gone? But we used to say "Hong2 Lou2 Jing1
> Shen2" (the spirit of Hong Lou)...  :-(


	** Do they replace it with another Hong Lou?
	
	   I never stayed in Hong Lou before. I don't really like
	   it. I think it was left by Japanese.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.taiwan:7414 soc.culture.china:12941
From: ejuv11@castle.ed.ac.uk (Min Tseng)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Most Ridiculous ? (Re: The Six-Year National Development Plan for Taiwan, "R.O.C")
Keywords: No
Date: 14 Apr 92 17:28:13 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

>
>  1. How many professors and engineerers had moved to Taiwan at the time ? How many
>universities were built after that ? How many excellent intellectuals left for
>Taiwan ?

The issue of the contribution of KMT(or mailanders who came to Taiwan
after 1945) to today's Taiwan is quite controversial one.  
Your question seemed to imply that there were no
intellectuals in Taiwan before KMT fled here. To the question at issue,
I may ask how many intellectuals (including WSR and BSR) had been killed
by KMT after they fled to Taiwan.  In addition, if what you asked above
can be an evidence to the issue, I may ask how many intellectuals left
in mainland China to lead mainland China to its present situation. Would
you say no intellectuals left in mainland China so that mainland China
became a poor country? 

>  2. Do you think Taiwan had better basis to develope so fast ? ( In resourses and 
>geography , as well as background )
Yes! I think so.  Look at the railway system that Japanese left for
Taiwan. (After 40-years' control, KMT doesn't improve the system quite
alot from those constructed by Japanese) I think the transportation is
quite improtant to the economic development.
I am not a historian so that I
can't give you the statistic basis to verify what is the basis in Taiwan
for the development after Japan left Taiwan.  I hope someone in the net
would show us the evidence. 

>  3. How much of the gold reserve was transfered to Taiwan through warships ? 
>( I have werstern resources in hand , but I hope you can look for it by yourself 
>for more materials .)

Please do supply your resources if it is not TOP-SECRET.  I'd read your
sources first and then decide to check more data or not.

>PS : Give me explainations , not conclusions only .  Not all the conclusios come
>that easily .

I quite agree with you at this part.

-Min in Edinburgh U.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.taiwan:7247 soc.culture.china:12545
From: chchang@acsu.buffalo.edu (Chun-Shi Chang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: The Six-Year National Development Plan for Taiwan, "R.O.C"
Date: 9 Apr 92 15:33:15 GMT
Organization: State University of New York at Buffalo/Comp Sci

------- 1 ------------------------------------------------------------------
chchang@acsu.buffalo.edu (Chun-Shi Chang) writes:
><It takes a very simple-minded (read stupid :-) person to judge the entire
><"education" system by a single person's interpretation of one story.

horne-scott@CS.YALE.EDU (Scott Horne) writes:
>Oh, no, it isn't just that.  I have other reasons for making that statement.

Then (1) why did you made that simple-mined statement? (2) please tell us
the "other reasons". Thanks.

------- 2 ------------------------------------------------------------------
chchang@acsu.buffalo.edu (Chun-Shi Chang) writes:
><What did you "get" out of the story? 
><Horne? 

horne-scott@CS.YALE.EDU (Scott Horne) writes:
>Ten times more than you did, apparently.  You seem to have missed the point
>completely.

No, no, no. I am afraid its you who "missed the point completely".
(1). I asked "what did you get out of the story?"  You didn't answer it, 
     did you?
(2). By covering you eyes with your hands and saying: "I don't see you,
     I don't see you, therefore you are not there." You behave very much
     like our hero Ar Q.  Don't you agree? 
(3). I haven't make any "point" out of the story. (Another lady/gentleman did)
     How can I possibly miss it? :-)

-Chunshi
From: chchang@acsu.buffalo.edu (Chun-Shi Chang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: "Epidemic" (Re: Most Ridiculous ?...)
Date: 15 Apr 92 16:38:02 GMT
Organization: State University of New York at Buffalo/Comp Sci

lko@math.rutgers.edu (lko) writes:
>     As a side note, my parents had not seen any outbreak of epidemic
> when they grew up. They only experienced it after ROC took over, and
> I still have a vague memory of cholera scare. 

So ROC should be blamed for the epidemic?

Let me put it this way, would you blame USA, the country, or the Bush
administration, the goverment, for the outbreak of an epidemic? Would
you say 'Hmmm, if we create a new and independent country, then there
would be no more epidemic?' or would you say 'Hmmm, we should choose an
able party next time in the Election.  See how poorly KMT handles this
epidemic.' 

Mind you again, KMT =/= ROC.

Besides, viruses, germs and fungi are all evolving, you never know when
will they mutate into a form which no medicines can control and
epidemic breaks out. But this has nothing to do with the fact you are a
citizen of ROC (are you?).

-Chunshi
From: mcyang@pollux.usc.edu (Bien-Chao Yeun)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: "Epidemic" (Re: Most Ridiculous ?...)
Date: 15 Apr 1992 11:18:11 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: pollux.usc.edu

In article <1992Apr15.163802.6970@acsu.buffalo.edu> chchang@acsu.buffalo.edu 
(Chun-Shi Chang) writes:
>So ROC should be blamed for the epidemic?
>
>Let me put it this way, would you blame USA, the country, or the Bush
>administration, the goverment, for the outbreak of an epidemic? Would
>you say 'Hmmm, if we create a new and independent country, then there
>would be no more epidemic?' or would you say 'Hmmm, we should choose an
>able party next time in the Election.  See how poorly KMT handles this
>epidemic.' 


Please do not overreact.  I didn't see Lehhun was trying to accuse any one.

What Lehhun and other people were trying to convey is that the
infrastructure and many public systems such as health, transportation,
education and agriculture were actually built during the Japanese
occupation era.    However, throughout the entire education system and
mass media, all these facts were consealed. people were told that all 
the success Taiwan has ever achieved were due to the leadership of our 
"Ing-Ming"(talent and bright)"Dah-Yu-Wei"(very capable) government.

Another interesting fact is in the year 1945, one year after the WW II
ended, Taiwanese team won the first place in the National Game in Shanghai.
The number of medals won by Taiwan exceeded the total won by all the other 
teams.   After one year's "robbery" under KMT's corrupted bureaucracy, 
the only reason that I can come out with to explain the excellent performance
of Taiwanese is Taiwan had a much higher living standard than anywhere in 
China at that time.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan