HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Organization: Networking & Computing Systems, Rice University
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mailbook
Date:         Sun, 6 Sep 1992 17:48:16 CDT
From:         "Richard A. Schafer" <SCHAFER@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU>
Subject:      Re: tab expansion in reply text

On Wed, 2 Sep 1992 10:16:35 EDT Kent Fiala said:
>I just noticed that even if tabs are expanded automatically in READ mode,
>they remain unexpanded in the text included by REPLY TEXT.  I suppose it's
>arguable which is the correct behavior, but I think I'd come down on the
>side of expanding them.

This was definitely a conscious decision on my part.  Now if only I can
remember why I made that choice.  :-(

I *think* the reason was actually two:

   a) To avoid any possible problems caused by the fact that the text is now
      moved over a column by the >
   b) To let the recipient have the same choice that the original recipient
      had about whether and how to expand the tabs.

I am certainly willing to consider changing this behavior if there is a
consensus opinion that the current behavior is incorrect.

Richard
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Organization: Temple University Computer Services -- Listserv Postmaster
X-Acknowledge-To: <OASIS@TEMPLEVM.BITNET>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mailbook
Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 1992 11:03:21 EDT
From:         Stan Horwitz <OASIS@TEMPLEVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Mailbook size

Here at Temple, we  also have users who call us with problems  as a result of
their  failure  to  do  email  housecleaning.  Fortunately,  this  number  is
minimal.

There are  several ways you  can address these  types of problems.  About two
years ago,  I set  up an  listserv group at  Temple where  our users  can ask
questions about  our computers and  software. With this facility,  the answer
to one  person's question  benefits others.  Some users  here who  have grown
computer literate frequently respond to  other uers' questions. This relieves
me  from  the  consulting  process.  This  forum,  Suggest,  has  worked  out
wonderfully and  makes my  job a  lot more interesting.  I even  learn things
from users now! Its  also a great feeling to read the  hints that other users
give out in using our stuff because that  way, I see how they think and learn
and that helps me improve the way  I deal with these people as individuals. I
certainly do not take credit for this  idea, but its very effective and helps
me justify the time I spend supporting the listserver here.

Other things  to do  include making clearly  written beginner's  and advanced
documentation on  your software  readily available to  your users.  This way,
you can refer  many people to the  documentation and ask them to  get back to
you if they  still have questions.

I am now  writing a new guide to Mail  92. A seminar on Mail 92  will soon be
developed  by  our  seminar  design  person  and  me.  She's  presently  busy
developing some  workshops for  our new  central Unix system  so the  Mail 92
stuff is low on her list  of priorities unfortunately. Free hands-on seminars
or workshops are important  for users. This lets you tell  your new users how
to correctly  do things and deal  with problems before they  happen.

If you  make use  of all  these tools, the  job of  individualized consulting
becomes much  less cumbersome  and the  need for  hand holding  is minimized.
Please feel free to contact me privately  if you want to discuss this further
since its more general than our public discussion of Ricemail.

Stan Horwitz
Listserv Postmaster
Temple University
Acknowledge to: OASIS@TEMPLEVM (or VM.TEMPLE.EDU)
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Organization: Networking & Computing Systems, Rice University
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mailbook
Date:         Mon, 14 Sep 1992 16:11:28 CDT
From:         "Richard A. Schafer" <SCHAFER@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Mail92 abend in DSC machine
              14 Sep 1992 11:37:13 EDT from <FNA104@URIACC.URI.EDU>

I've sent Jim a refresh of the code with a fix for that problem.

Richard
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Organization: Networking & Computing Systems, Rice University
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mailbook
Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 1992 14:42:26 CDT
From:         "Richard A. Schafer" <SCHAFER@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Abends from header-editing

Good point, Kent.  I'll try to see what I can work up to fix this
problem.

Richard
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mailbook
Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 1992 08:31:10 CDT
From:         Chris Barnes <CBARNES@TAMVM1.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Mailbook size

On Thu, 10 Sep 1992 16:35:11 MAL Sabariah Ismail said:
>Hello all,
>    I need to get some idea on what is the reasonable size of a notebook. The
>number of RiceMail users is on the increase here in our university and most of
>these people are VM/CMS "illiterate". I am quite tired of having to help these
>people clearing their disk space, explaining to them the benefits of using
>names file to distribute their incoming and outgoing notes, the importance of
>doing their mail housekeeping rather than keeping the junks in their ALL and
>UNREAD notebook and bla-bla...


Without sounding condesending, this sounds like a User Services problem
of teaching the users how to do all of this stuff.  IMHO, it is
pointless to try to "systems-manage" what the users are doing.  Teaching
the users about all the things you mentioned above IS the answer.  I
realize that you are tired of doing that job, but surely there is some-
one there that has that duty.

To answer your question:  a reasonable size of notebook is what the user
wants (to quote a saying popular at alot of businesses: "the customer
is always right").  Disk space limitations are a real concern of
the systems people.  If you have arrived at a default disk size for
your users, then you have done your job.  If an idividual user is
running out of space (for whatever reason), then the User Services
rep. should determine if the user is wasting space (eg. not deleting
messages (s)he doesn't need, or if (s)he really needs more.  If the
first case, the User Services rep.'s job is to TEACH the user what
(s)he needs to do.  If the second, then (s)he would follow whatever
procedures are appropriate for your site for acquiring more disk/
virtual space.

Again, I don't intend for this to be a flame.  But it just bugs me to
see a "systems-solution" applied to a "user services" problem.

      ----------------------------------------------
Chris Barnes            |
x005cb@tamvm1.tamu.edu  |  Teal season starts in 3 days!
(409) 846-3273 (home)   |           (in Texas)
(409) 845-8454 (work)   |
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mailbook
Date:         Mon, 14 Sep 1992 11:37:13 EDT
From:         Jim Bradley <FNA104@URIACC.URI.EDU>
Subject:      Mail92 abend in DSC machine

  I run an exec to sweep my reader each night. In preparing to get
Mail92 into production here, I began using it with this SAVEIT EXEC.
Now I get the following error when SAVEIT runs. The relevant part of
the exec is simply:

queue QUIT
EXEC MAIL

  Any ideas, Richard?
/Jim


DASD 0292 LINKED R/O; R/W BY FNA104  ; R/O BY     5 USERS
DMSACP723I B (292) R/O
Please give your installation's support person the following information.
An internal logic error in MAIL/MAILBOOK has been encountered:
Unable to create CMS Vscreen, rc=88
The error occurred at line 833
Copyright 1992 by Richard A. Schafer. All Rights Reserved.
    76 +++                            Signal Value(Translate(cmd))
   718 +++                           Call YCall
   720 +++                        Call,Finish 32
   724 +++                       Call Flush
  1039 +++                      Call BuildWindow,sizel sizec,'2 2',position,colo
r 'HIGH',help
   685 +++                     Call MessagePopUp '10 20','1 42','INFO'
   379 +++                Call Terminate
    73 +++            Call,XCall operands
    46 +++       Call Command
       +++       "TRACEBACK"
DMSREX463E Error 16 running MAILB00K XEDIT, line 76: Label not found
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X-VMS-To: IN%"CIRCPLUS@IDBSU.BITNET",ANDROSKI
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.circplus
Date:         Fri, 11 Sep 1992 08:36:00 CDT
              <CIRCPLUS@IDBSU.BITNET>
From:         Helene Androski <ANDROSKI@MACC.WISC.EDU>
Subject:      theft and mutilation

We are trying to devise a policy on charging a person caught with a mutilated
book or journal the cost of replacing it. We charge a standard replacement fee
of $40 for a book and, for now, the cover price of the journal. But, since the
cover proce, does not begin to cover the cost of replacing or repairing the
journal we think we should add on a processing fee. Question is, how much.
Anyone out there do this? What do you charge and why? (Actually book mutilation
is, to my mind, legitimate grounds for capital punishment but I'll settle for a
processing fee)


--------------------------------------------Helene Androski
                                            139 Memorial Library
                                            University of Wisconsin-Madison
                                            Madison, WI 53706
                                            (608) 262-3347
                                            androski@macc.wisc.edu
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X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.circplus
Date:         Mon, 14 Sep 1992 08:45:19 EDT
              <CIRCPLUS@IDBSU.BITNET>
From:         Carol Goodson <cgoodson@SUN.WGA.PEACHNET.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Renewal with book in hand
              Sep 11, 92 9:15 am

> >I think that for faculty/staff taking the book away and bringing it back
> >serves as one more reminder that the book belongs to the library, not
> >in their personal collection.
>
> But here again....why are policies/procedures being instituted
> which penalize the majority because of the irresponsibility of
> a minority?
>
***and furthermore, why perpetuate policies which only serve to remind
faculty that librarians have a reputation for adhering closely to rules and
regulations which seem only designed to inconvenience their clientele, rather
than make materials easily and readily available?  I'll probably take a lot
of flack for this, but in your heart, you know this reputation is sometimes
well-deserved....would that it were not so...


********************************************************************************
Carol Goodson/ Coordinator/ Off-Campus Library Services
Ingram Library/ WEST GEORGIA COLLEGE/ Carrollton  GA  30118
(404) 836-6502 (Voice)   (404) 836-6626 (FAX)
email: cgoodson@sun.wga.peachnet.edu
       cgoodson@uga.cc.uga.edu
       cgoodson@uga.bitnet
       70253.1146@compuserve.com
********************************************************************************
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X-Envelope-to: CIRCPLUS@IDBSU.BITNET
X-VMS-To: MEDUSA::IN%"CIRCPLUS@IDBSU.BITNET"
X-VMS-Cc: PATTERJL
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.circplus
Date:         Tue, 15 Sep 1992 08:07:00 CST
              <CIRCPLUS@IDBSU.BITNET>
From:         "NAME JANET PATTERSON, RESERVE LIBRARY,
              UWEC" <PATTERJL@CNSVAX.UWEC.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Rent-a-textbook

Doris,
I have been in Reserve here for over a decade and since I have been here
textbooks have been available for rental to students.  I'm afraid I don't
know how it was set up or how long ago, but it is handled from a dept. in
the bookstore.

It affects Reserve in one way...we have an arrangement with Textbook Rental
--when they are down to their last two available copies they set them aside
for Reserve.  Those two copies are sent to the library and we place them on
Reserve.  That way if they run out of books for all students in the class
the last two are available at Reserve until the additional copies are avail
able in Textbooks.

I will also mention that in the same 10 years I have been here there is a
lot of discussion about getting rid of the rental service and having stu-
dents buy their texts!

Janet Patterson
William D. McIntyre Library
University of Wisconsin-Eau Claire
patterjl@uwec.edu
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.circplus
Date:         Mon, 14 Sep 1992 15:40:00 PST
              <CIRCPLUS@IDBSU.BITNET>
From:         Doris Weingart <WEINGART@UCRVMS.BITNET>
Subject:      Rent-a-textbook

Question time again.  Do you know of any campus which allows
students to rent their textbooks for a quarter or semester
instead of having to buy?  We find more and more faculty
putting texts on reserve and more and more students checking
them out in lieu of buying.  This is not a very satisfactory
solution either for the library, students, or faculty.  I
checked with McNaughton last year to see if they had or were
interested in looking into this but got nowhere.  I was
wondering if some campuses had investigated and implemented,
perhaps through their associated student organizations.  I
briefly toyed with the idea of developing here in the library
(possibly as a revenue generating idea) but gave it up - no
time.
    Doris Weingart
    Circ Services UC Riverside
    Weingart@ucrvms
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Date:         Tue, 15 Sep 1992 15:55:00 EDT
              <CIRCPLUS@IDBSU.BITNET>
From:         "W. Bede Mitchell" <MITCHELLWB@APPSTATE.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Rent-a-textbook

Appalachian State University's bookstore offers a rent-a-textbook service.
The policy is summarized in the General Bulletin:

"Undergraduate student fees include textbook rental entitling students
to receive all hardback textbooks used in each course for which they
register.  Notebooks, workbooks, manuals, paperbacks, and the like are
not included.  These and other supplementary materials will be purchased
by the student.  At the end of each semester, textbooks that are not
needed further must be returned.  A student who desires to buy the
textbooks may purchase them at a reduced price.  Graduate students
purchase their textbooks.  All textbooks are purchased in summer school."

From what I have gathered, this system is fairly popular with the students
and not terribly popular with textbook publishers.  Faculty members also
have reservations because of a restriction that the system places on them:
in the cases of classes which are taught by different faculty members
(i.e., prof. X teaches the course in fall and prof. Y teaches it in spring),
those faculty members must agree to use the same textbooks, otherwise they
cannot have their chosen texts made available through the rent-a-text plan.

Bede Mitchell
MITCHELLWB@APPSTATE
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.circplus
Date:         Mon, 7 Sep 1992 08:43:17 -0500
              <CIRCPLUS@IDBSU.BITNET>
From:         WOMACKAC@VUCTRVAX.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Software for training shelvers

We cannot help you, but I urge you to share anything you find with
the rest of us...we could really use a product like this.  Thanks
and good luck.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.circplus
Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 1992 22:12:00 EST
              <CIRCPLUS@IDBSU.BITNET>
From:         "W.C. DIVENS" <N93774@PITTVMS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: document delivery

>I would never presume to read Rusty's mind (I leave that to his wife and
>will send him a personal message making snide remarks), but I think that
>when he asked about out-of-hand renewals, he could also have been refer-
>ring (and, if he wasn't, I am, in my great Marcel Proust-imitation run-on
>sentence) to taking an inventory along and checking off the books against the
>inventory rather than bringing the books back to the library and then carrying
>them back again.  As a result, the transaction at the checkout terminal
>would be out-of-hand, but the books would have been seen by a library
>staffer, thereby avoiding the problem you referred to.

Actually....this whole thing is getting 'out of hand'!  Read my mind?
Perish the thought...if you can find it!  I know that Kendall is a
bit preoccupied as of late, but since she has apparently gotten
her <SHIFT> key repaired, she is forgiven.

No, friends and neighbors...what Rusty was thinking was that there
must be a point of diminishing return here.  Ok...so you do phone
renewals and every once in a while, a book gets lost and some
funds come out of the BYU budget to pay for it.  Balance this cost
against the salaries paid to 'go-fers' who trudge hither and yon with
these books so as to verify their existence.  Now I can't be certain,
but my gut feeling is that someone may be paying for insurance they
need not carry.  If, however, the opposite is true, I'd like to hear
how that data was collected and apply the same methodology here at
the home biblio-place.

Rustbelt Bill
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.circplus
Date:         Tue, 15 Sep 1992 11:20:16 CDT
              <CIRCPLUS@IDBSU.BITNET>
From:         kendall <KSIMMONS%UKANVM.bitnet@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Rent-a-textbook
              14 Sep 1992 15:40:00 PST from
              <WEINGART%UCRVMS.bitnet@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Talk with Nellie Buffalomeat, Haskell Indian Junior College, Lawrence,
Kansas (913) 749-8457 (I don't have her card or know of any e-mail address
as I'm writing from home, on vacation, babysitting for my brandnew first
grandchild...much more important!!!)  If I remember correctly, Haskell does
do something like textbook rentals, rather than putting the stuff on reserve,
but this was only mentioned in passing, so I wouldn't totally swear to it.
But I THINK I'm correct and, if they do, it IS out of the library building.

Kendall Simmons
University of Kansas
Home of the #26 Kansas Jayhawks who are 2-0 for the first time in years AND
lead the NATION in scoring!!!  (Won't last long.)
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Organization: State University of New York, Stony Brook
X-VMS-To: in%"circplus@idbsu.edu"
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Date:         Tue, 15 Sep 1992 12:31:35 -0400
              <CIRCPLUS@IDBSU.BITNET>
From:         Janet M Cavanagh <JTCAVANAGH@CCMAIL.SUNYSB.EDU>
Subject:      Credentialling patrons

               State University of New York at Stony Brook
                       Stony Brook, NY 11794-3339

                                            Janet M Cavanagh
                                            Head, Circulation/Reserve Department
                                            Library-Circulation
                                            516 632-0771
                                            15-Sep-1992 12:15pm EDT
FROM:  JTCAVANAGH
TO:    Remote Addressee                     ( _circplus@idbsu.edu )

SUBJECT: Credentialling patrons

	I am in the process of reorganizing the way we issue borrowing
privileges to  "special borrowers." Even the nomenclature is confusing!
These are all the folks not registered as students (thus not in the Registrars
file) and not on the state payroll (Human resources file.) The number of
programs underwhich people can get privileges is ever expanding. Traditionally
we have issued cards at the circulation desk. However, since we came up with
NOTIS and also moved reserve to main circulation, it is very busy out there.
Because of the level of complexity and the number of questions that must be
asked of a person trying to get a card, this becomes very time consuming. Also,
the quality controls in the data collected about the patron and entered on the
computer is very poor, ie. lots of mistakes. I don't think every one at the desk
can be trained to issue library cards. Who does it at your libraries? Do you
have limited hours, for example, only during business hours when regular staff
are there. I know some of the posher libraries have "credential offices." We are
of course, a state university who must be extremely diplomatic in presenting how
our primariy clientele are our students, staff and faculty.
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Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 1992 09:46:00 EST
              <CIRCPLUS@IDBSU.BITNET>
From:         "W.C. DIVENS" <N93774@PITTVMS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: document delivery

Just a question for Laurie at BYU....and others....

Why is it deemed necessary to pick up the book...bring it back for
remewal....and redeposit it in the faculty member's office?  Call
me silly but wouldn't it just be easier to renew the items out-of-hand?
Or am I missing something here?

Rustbelt Bill
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Date:         Fri, 4 Sep 1992 15:59:06 -0500
              <CIRCPLUS@IDBSU.BITNET>
From:         SHONTZ%ATHENA.DECNET@UTHSCSA1.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Software for training shelvers

I'll second that request, and ask if there's a Mac version as well.
David Shontz
UTHSCSA
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.circplus
Organization: Brigham Young University
Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 1992 17:15:06 MDT
              <CIRCPLUS@IDBSU.BITNET>
Comments:     Warning -- original Sender: tag was NETNEWS@BYUVM
From:         Laurie Cardon <LIBLXC@BYUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: document delivery

>Just a question for Laurie at BYU....and others....
>
>Why is it deemed necessary to pick up the book...bring it back for
>remewal....and redeposit it in the faculty member's office?  Call
>me silly but wouldn't it just be easier to renew the items out-of-hand?
>Or am I missing something here?
>
>Rustbelt Bill

We don't do 'out-of-hand' renewals at BYU.  The main reason is that
the NOTIS system doesn't track them -- and faculty can renew items
up to 20 times.  If we allowed them to just call in renewals, they
could theoretically lose a book and keep on 'renewing' it for years
before we would know that it had been lost.

The automation system I used to work with kept track of 'phone'
renewals.  It would allow 'x' number of total renewals (say 20)
but only 'y' number of consecutive phone renewals (say 2).  With
our 4-month loan period, that would mean that after 2 phone renewals
the item would have to be presented at the library before any more
phone renewals could be made.  In practice, this would mean we would
see the items at least once a year.  Believe me, I wish NOTIS would
do the same.

                                Laurie
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.circplus
Date:         Tue, 15 Sep 1992 15:58:09 EDT
              <CIRCPLUS@IDBSU.BITNET>
From:         Ruth <RSWX@CORNELLC.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Renewal with book in hand

Professors often have the pleasant experience of exchanging old books
for new if they need to make the trip to the library themselves.  Not
to mention enjoying the wonderful world of new periodicals.  We do people a
favor if we encourage them to visit the library.

Ruth Shaw
Physical Sciences Library
Cornell University
From: WILLIAKJ@BCVMS.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.circplus
Subject: RE: software for training shelvers
Date: 15 Sep 92 17:41:00 GMT
              <CIRCPLUS@IDBSU.BITNET>
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Original_To:  BITNET%"CIRCPLUS@IDBSU.BITNET"

Thank you for the updated info.
Kathy Williams
Circulation Supervisor
O'Neill Library  Boston College
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