HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni)
Subject: Re: He Who Saves a Single Soul...
Organization: The Department of Redundancy Department
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 20:22:45 GMT

In article <bdm.714575071@cs.anu.edu.au> bdm@cs.anu.edu.au (Brendan McKay) writes:
>horen@rs.com (Jonathan B. Horen) writes:

>>The Jewish state, "Palestine" to the British, has *always* existed
>>during the last 3O00+ years -- the "Modern" State of Israel is just
>>that -- modern -- but it is not "new". 
>
>This is not fact, it's just (recent) religious dogma.  Since that
>makes it immune to argument, I won't try.

There were Jewish Kings in Israel who wrote and spoke Hebrew many
centuries before anyone spoke any form of Arabic.  If you wouldn't
have such a fetish with Palestine in the middle of this century, you'd
realize that history comprises other centuries, as well.  

As for "recent" religious dogma, Jewish Kings in Israel are documented
in a book called the Bible, though it appears that your library may
not have a copy.

>A clear statement of your moral standards.  You have been wronged
>and therefore you are entitled to trample on the rights of others.
>We've heard it before.  Why not just be honest and admit that you 
>believe it was correct to forcably expel the Arabs of Palestine?

If "the Arabs of Palestine" have been forcibly expelled, as you
contend, then why are there so many of them in Israel today?


-- 
Jake Livni  jake@bony1.bony.com               Pat Paulsen for President
American-Occupied New York                    This year he has a real chance!
My opinions only - employer has no opinions.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: rivk@quads.uchicago.edu (nora gayle rivkis)
Subject: Re: politics
Reply-To: rivk@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 20:26:04 GMT

In article <1992Aug23.200751.14229@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM> nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Nabil Idriss) writes:

>This is the last paragraph I am going to respond to Nora. I am not ready to
>flame with a female. Why don't you leave the flaming between me and Jonathan
>Horen. I guess we got accustomed to each other. 

I'm not sure whether you're demonstrating a level of sexism I've
heard Arabs accused of and preferred to consider a stereotype or
whether you're making deliberate use of the stereotype in order
to find a way to run from a fight, or both. It doesn't matter.
With that statement you've done your own reputation and that of
your people more harm than I could ever have done them by arguing
with you. Thank you, Nabil; you've helped my cause considerably.

>Nabil Idriss     

	-Nora


-- 
"Light one candle for those who are suffering pain we learned so long ago..."

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: bgdv706@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu (Noam Tractinsky)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: After Kuwait, its jle's turn
Date: 31 Aug 92 02:26:36 GMT
Organization: University of Texas @ Austin

In article <1992Aug29.023849.2438387@locus.com>, jle@locus.com (John Elghani/10000000) writes:

		[...]

> Speaking of peace for Kuwait:  This is the begining of the road.  The
> Israelis shall occupy Kuwait as well as Saudia.  Remember, they claim
> that the arabian peninsula (Shibh Al Jazeera) is theirs.  Take
> it from Yemen, Al madina, Mecca, to Babil, to ....  


	Locus Computing, where they'll have jle for breakfast. 
	Add lots of sugar please.


 
> jle


Noam
From: martillo@stars.clearpoint.com (Joachim Martillo)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: CLINTON SPEECH TEXT: RABIN MEETING
Date: 29 Aug 92 14:54:55 GMT
Organization: Clearpoint Inc., Hopkinton, MA

In article <1992Aug29.134513.25999@cs.brown.edu> dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) writes:
>While most readers of this newsgroup might regard John Elghani's posters
>as nothing but lunatic ravings, they have both historical and 
>actual importance. The blind fundamentalism, the inability to face
>the real problems but to attribute them to some absurd conspiracy
>theory, the total refusal to listen to the other side and to logic -
>exactly the techniques that the Arab dictators used and are using
>to keep their people inside a black hole of hatered and ignorance,
>thus insuring the continuation of their rule.

>-Danny Keren.

Be serious.  Elghani is a Christian Lebanese convert to Islam who is
desparately trying to prove his Arabic and Muslim credentials by
taking completely extreme positions.  He can hardly be considered
representative either of any Arabic or any Muslim people except for
the rather psychotic group of non-Arabic Oriental Christians who
convert to Islam for ideological reasons.  Unfortunately these people
tend to be rather more vocal than most other Islamic or Arabic people
in Western languages.  While Arabic and Islamic culture has some major
problems, hypothesizing that Arabic people are sheep blindly following
dictators is a rather reductionist and somwhat insulting.

Joachim Carlo Santos Martillo Ajami


--
Joachim Carlo Santos Martillo Ajami

The article represents noone's opinions other than the author's.
From: oueichek@imag.fr (Ibaa Oueichek)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Why is Fahd of Saudia carring for Saddam today?
Date: 3 Sep 92 13:58:21 GMT
Organization: IMAG Institute, University of Grenoble, France

In article <1992Sep02.091326.2453065@locus.com>, jle@locus.com (John Elghani/10000000) writes:
|> As you may have read in the previous mail, King Fahd of Saudia is in
|> friendly touch with Saddam Husain, and he called him in the morning
|> to wake him up for Fajr Islamic Prayer.  The following reasons
|> are my best guess:
|> 
 
   Well, sorry to disappoint you dear John, but it was pur sarcasm. 
AND IMHO, it wasn't funny (mais vraiment pas du tout). Maybe you should 
tell this bozo to stop playing the clown.



-- 
Sham(u) ya tha (s)seif(u) lam yaghib(i) | Ibaa Oueichek. oueichek@imag.imag.fr
    Ya jamal(al) majd(i) fi(l) kutub(i) | LABORATOIRE 	BULL-IMAG
Kablak(i) (t)tareekh(u) fi thulmaten    | Grenoble. 
    Baadak(i) staula ala (sh)shuhub(i)  |
					
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:19359 soc.culture.jewish:15075
From: makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Arabs/leftists? (was Re: Computer Science in Israel Ignored)
Summary: What is your point?
Date: 30 Aug 92 16:53:18 GMT
Article-I.D.: ennews.1992Aug30.165318.4726
Reply-To: makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe AZ

In article <Btsu27.5Dv.2@cs.cmu.edu> anwar+@cs.cmu.edu (Anwar Mohammed) writes:

# In article <1992Aug30.013713.19594@ennews.eas.asu.edu> makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky) writes:

# >	Second of all, the University of Arizona denied me admission to
# >its graduate CS program because as an undergrad I was a "trouble
# >maker" and activist who among other things demonstrated against
# >University administration policies when they favored
# >Arabs/Iranians/the usual American leftist crowed against Jewish
# >students.  
 
# If you'd like to do a comparative study of the political affiliations of
# Arab-Americans and Jews this country, I'm sure that from a _conservative_
# perspective, Arab-Americans compare favorably.  The fact that leftists usually
# support anything that goes against U.S. government policy only means that they 
# and most Arab-Americans generally agree on one issue, the Middle East.  One 
# could probably say the same thing about most ethnic groups.
 
# I would not use this net as an indicator.

	I do not understand your point.  I was not talking about anything
other then Middle East issues, and while I did not explicitly mention
this, I honestly do not think there was a need to.

	Not that it matters, but I probably agree with you about
Arab-Americans being typically conservative, at least as far as their
organiztions go.  I do not know about the majority of individual Arabs,
however I have seen some Arab Americans (James Zogby in particular)
speaking on behalf of their organizations in what most people would
call a "conservative" tone.
--

David Makowsky
makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: sethr@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (seth.r.rosenthal)
Subject: Re: politics
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 04:11:51 GMT

In article <1992Aug31.191405.2446208@locus.com>, jle@locus.com (John Elghani/10000000) writes:
> In article <1992Aug31.163951.25193@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> sethr@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (seth.r.rosenthal) writes:
> >In article <1992Aug26.022619.2423654@locus.com>, jle@locus.com (John Elghani/10000000) writes:
> >> In article <3625@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh) writes:
> >> >In article <1992Aug21.073928.17880@cs.anu.edu.au> bdm@cs.anu.edu.au writes:
> >> >>
> >> >>In article 22555@rs.com, horen@rs.com (Jonathan B. Horen) writes:
> >> >>>The Philistines were *never* in Israel -- and their name *never* evolved into
> >> 				  ^^^^^^^^^
> >> What Israel?  The now adays place known, by force, as israel is the stolen
> >> land of the Philistines.  Israel of the thieves , if you wish , exists
> >> around Germany that if the Germans, Polish, ...etc wish it to be.  This 
> >> land is that of the Philistines.  Read actual history books and ask the 
> >> people of the land, do not read the books of a bunch of thief-authors, and
> >> ask the invadors.
> >> 
> >
> >The land of the Philistines was around Gaza.  They controlled 5
> >coastal cities there, after failing in their attempt to invade
> >Egypt.  Philistines were Anatolian Greeks, and have no ethnic
> >ties with current inhabitants of the region.  In Archeological
> >Review an article on the results of excavations of the Philistine
> 
> So, the name Philistine in Arabic, Hebrew, Persian, ...etc that points
> to the people of Palestine , is just a cooincidence , right?
> 
> Don't be fooled with by the letters P and Ph when English translation 
> takes place .
> 

Has it ever occurred to you that the Arabic word came from the
Romans?  The Persian as well?  The Romans got the name from a
people carried off by the Babylonians who were enemies of the
Jews (documented in their holy books).
During Roman times the Jews were a royal pain to the Emperor.
They had the audacity to rebel for independence in three
major rebellions over 150 years, suffering at least 1 million
casualties, just so they could have their own country back.
So the Romans took the Jews ancestral enemies out of their Bible
and renamed Judaea after them, just to break the association of
Judaea==Jews.

The Philistines never came back.  If you read my posting, religion isn't
the issue, Archeological finds are proving this.  You'd better
find someone else to hang the Palestinian family tree on.
Saddam or the Kurds are more likely to be Philistines than Arabs
who lived in the land the Romans happened to call Palestine for
a vanished people.

	Seth Rosenthal

Disclaimer: All opinions are my own not my employers'.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: horen@rs.com (Jonathan B. Horen)
Subject: Re: Arabs/leftists? (was Re: Computer Scie
Organization: Renaissance Software, Inc.
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 08:40:33 PDT

In article <1992Aug31.054833.1647@cs.anu.edu.au> bdm@cs.anu.edu.au writes:
>
>>                                     but let me also state that t.p.m.
>>readers ought to look at from where in the world these three are posting)
>
>More jingoism from Mr. "fuck you, asshole".  By the way, I bet
>I have travelled more widely in the US than you have.

You lose -- I spent two years hitchhiking throughout the US following
Woodstock, and made it to every state except Hawaii. As for Alaska, I
was stationed there for two years in the US Army.

But tell us, Brendan: wither have you travelled in the Middle East? 

j.horen@rs.com
SysAdmin/TechWriter
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: rivk@ellis.uchicago.edu (nora gayle rivkis)
Subject: Re: John Elghani sucking on his toes (was Re:  Islamic Sabah of Kuwait: Millions to British zoo.)
Reply-To: rivk@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 14:18:09 GMT

In article <Btp3nF.DC6.2@cs.cmu.edu> anwar+@cs.cmu.edu (Anwar Mohammed) writes:

>Your attack in Kuwait is so misdirected and uninformed here, I 
>suggest to you that you retract it before you lose all credibility,
>if you haven't already.

He has.

>>jle

>Anwar Mohammed         

	-Nora
-- 
"Light one candle for those who are suffering pain we learned so long ago..."
From: rivk@ellis.uchicago.edu (nora gayle rivkis)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: BILL CLINTON ON ISRAEL AND THE MIDDLE
Date: 29 Aug 92 02:12:46 GMT
Reply-To: rivk@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

In article <1992Aug28.181326.29257@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM> nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Nabil Idriss) writes:

>>Fuck you, asshole.
>
>
>That is a good one Jonathan. This is probably Nora why I did not want to resume
>our latest conversation.

I wouldn't say something like that... and I'm plenty able to deal with
it if you do. Whether the person at the terminal is male or female has
nothing to do with whether you're able to address the articles that are
sent from it.

Making distinctions about who you will talk to a given way based on
whether someone is a man or a woman is sexist. I don't think you should
throw around strong language at anybody, and I don't approve of it from
Jonathan, but my being female has no relevance to the situation.

>Nabil Idriss    

	-Nora



-- 
"Light one candle for those who are suffering pain we learned so long ago..."
From: makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Subject: Re: For Yigal (Was: Re: Computer Science in Israel Ignored)
Summary: I guess this is the closest we will ever get to an apology from Yigal.
Reply-To: makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe AZ
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 01:59:33 GMT

In article <22290@venera.isi.edu> arens@ISI.EDU (Yigal Arens) writes:

# In article <1992Aug30.013819.19765@ennews.eas.asu.edu> makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky) writes:

# >  Does everyone remember (it was not too long ago) Yigal getting on
# > Bob Werman's case for allegedly  making an artilce thread go to an
# > "obscure" (talk.politics.misc - real obscure!) newsgroup?  Well it
# > turns out that when I originally replied to this article it was going
# > to go to il.board, no doubt an internal Israeli news group.  The
# > reason?  It had to do with the followup line. . . .

# >  I have no doubts that a similar situation is what occured before.
# > Will Yigal apologize?
 
# I might have if Mr. Werman had claimed that his strange followup line
# (it was not to talk.politics.misc) was an unintentional error.  But he
# didn't.  He claimed that it was intentional and justified.

	Well, I guess this is the closest we will ever get to an admission
of wrongdoing from Yigal.  I kind of wish I was always right myself...

	At any rate, it could well be that Bob Werman's news posting
software requires a followup to line when posting to multiple
newsgroups, or at least asks for one and Bob did not know he did not
need one or that he could edit out the line (either way, it would
justify his claim).  Even if this is not the case it does not matter.
It is ridiculous to assume that he intentionaly redirected his article.
What good would it do?
--

David Makowsky
makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: perlman@qso.Colorado.EDU (Eric S. Perlman)
Subject: Re: BILL CLINTON ON ISRAEL AND THE MIDDLE
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 18:08:59 GMT

In article <1992Aug27.101737.5090@rs.com> horen@rs.com writes:
>In article 25239@castle.ed.ac.uk, egpv29@castle.ed.ac.uk (JHenderson) writes:
>>In article <1992Aug26.140030.25262@rs.com> horen@rs.com writes:
>>=>>In article 8356@dscomsf.desy.de, hallam@zeus02.desy.de (Phill Hallam-Baker) writes:
>>=>>
>>=>>At no time have I ever claimed that Shamir is in any way representative of the
>>=>>Israeli people. Since most of the Israelis I meet consider Shamir to be at best
>>=>>mentaly deficient, this would be a ludicrous statement.
>>=>>
>>=>>However Shamir is reperesentative of the Likud party, or at the very least
>>=>>demonstrates the sort of person they are prepared to tolerate as leader.
>>=>
>>=>You're quite the presumptuous little twerp, aren't you Phill? Did you ever
>>=>stop to consider that perhaps most of the Israelis whom you meet are, themselves,
>>=>not too representative of the Israeli people? or is it, since Shamir *was* elected 
>>=>in 1988 with a sizeable mandate by the Israeli voting public, that you consider
>>=>both him *and* most Israelis to be "mental[l]y deficient"?
>>=>
>>=>And why use the word "tolerate"? Isn't it obvious to you that Shamir, by virtue
>>=>of the fact that he was elected in 1988, and renominated in 1992, is "the [sort
>>=>of] person they *want* as their leader"?
>>
>>I would guess that Phill was giving the Israelis the benefit of the doubt.
>>As you point out, the evidence is that they don't merit it.
>
>Fuck you, asshole.

I think you can find a more appropriate way to express yourself than
this, can't you?  

-- 
"How sad to see/A model of decorum and tranquillity/become like any other sport
A battleground for rival ideologies to slug it out with glee." -Tim Rice,"Chess"
     Eric S. Perlman 				 <perlman@qso.colorado.edu> 
  Center for Astrophysics and Space Astronomy, University of Colorado, Boulder
From: bgdv706@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu (Noam Tractinsky)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Eggert vs. Livni
Date: 31 Aug 92 02:06:55 GMT
Organization: University of Texas @ Austin

In article <1992Aug29.132210.5069@dscomsf.desy.de>, hallam@zeus02.desy.de (Phill Hallam-Baker) writes:

			[...]


> The point about the preamble is that in international law there are plenty of
> provisions that rule out the aquisition of territory by force. That is pretty
> much the whole of what international law is about. There is however not a
> requirement to recognise other governments. To this extent it is quite correct
						=============
> (if nieve) to demand unconditional withdrawal from the territories.


	Only to _this_ extent, which is as wide as the eye of a needle.

        The requirement from the Arabs to recognize Israel is, of course,
	not a capricious demand but rather a reflection of a long history
	of attempts to annihilate it, which, I guess, is also ruled out by
	international law. 
 
> Phill Hallam-Baker


Noam

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: raan@techunix.technion.ac.il (Ran Ever-Hadani)
Subject: Re: politics
Organization: Technion, Israel Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 13:49:40 GMT

>In article <1992Aug21.073928.17880@cs.anu.edu.au> bdm@cs.anu.edu.au writes:
>>
>>In article 22555@rs.com, horen@rs.com (Jonathan B. Horen) writes:
>>>The Philistines were *never* in Israel -- and their name *never* evolved into
>>>"Palestinians". That's a shameful lie which is bandied about all too often.
>>
>>Perhaps you would like to enlighten us on where the Philistines lived?

Mostly in today's Gaza strip, which is not a part of Israel neither
by the Jewish religious definition, nor by Brendan's.

-- Ran
-- 
Withdrawal from the territories is in Israel's vital interest.  I will not 
feel any less at home in Shiloh or Bethlehem if I need a visa to go there.

                                   Moshe Dayan  (quoted from memory)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: adam@sparkle.uucp (Adam Shostack)
Subject: Re: Where is everyone?
Organization: Aiken Computation Lab, Harvard University
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 00:57:00 GMT

In article <1992Sep2.035341.1447@ddsw1.mcs.com> arf@ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) writes:
>Sounds like good old ARF would be an improvement.

You promised to leave, talk.politics.mideast, Arf.  If you have any
honor, you will do so. 


I'm so eager to see you leave that I'm not even going to make a rude
remark.


Adam Shostack 					adam@das.harvard.edu

What a terrible thing to have lost one's .sig.  Or not to have a .sig
at all.  How true that is.
From: B.Kumar@cs.ucl.ac.uk
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: QQQ: Islamic Answers To Uncomfortable Questions
Date: 25 Aug 92 22:42:14 GMT





It has been seen that on various newsgroups people keep raising many
uncomfortable questions about Islam, Mohammed and Quran. This pattern
has repeated itself over last several years causing too much traffic
on several cultural newsgroups which are in no way connected with
religious discussion.

To all those people who want to raise any uncomfortable probing
questions on Islam, here is compiled answers to all such questions.
This list has been compiled by observing answers over long period
of time by a panel of islamic experts (who incidentally are currently
in hide due to death threats from some tolerant followers of God ne 
Allah.:-)").


 (HEALTH WARNING: ONLY FOR SPRITUALLY INCLINED PEOPLE)







QUESTION: ^%&%#$^%(*()*^^%Y^%)(*&*)(&(*&(Y&(R^%%$^&T& ?? 
         (Actually question does not matter )

ANSWERS: Actually, you can program your computer to generate answer picking
randomly one of the theories given below: 

a) XYZ theory. ( Ruler X is unislamic, State Y is unislamic, Action Z is 
unislamic) and hence.... 

b)"Lunatic's Theory" - Action X  is actually jew's conspiracy and hence.... 

c)"Random Throw Theory" - The Crusade did  X Too, Religion ZZ did
this too, No other religion YY this too? and hence.... 

d) "Void Theory" - Actually there is no "islamic state" and hence....

y) "Barking Dog Theory"- Have you seen your own religion QQ which has
X, Y and Z, and hence....


:-) :-)  :-) for humour impaired

All flames will be passed to Mr Salman Rushdie for further action.

Cheers,

bkumar
----------------------------------
- all stanadard disclaimers apply. Pl. send me email if you really really
feel offended and have had atleast two days of sleepless nights.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast