HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Backward Masking
From: kmagnacca@eagle.wesleyan.edu
Date: 12 Apr 92 03:35:05 EDT
Organization: Wesleyan University

In article <22898@goofy.Apple.COM>, ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik) writes:
>  
> However in the case of Rush this whole issue is really hilarous, anyone
> who has followed the lyrics of Peart knows that their world view does
> not contain any kinds of references to occult, religion or mysticism.
> Quite the contrary, this is one of the few bands who promote secular
> humanism.                                                    ^^^^^^^
> ^^^^^^^^
   GASP!  NOT SECULAR HUMANISM!  You mean they expound that vicious philosophy
preached by the Antichrist himself, Isaac Asimov?
   That's probably the reason they were pointed out.  Pity about Isaac.

Karl Magnacca
(with black arm band)

                  
 __________________________________________________________________
|  "Lastly, I come to China in the hope  |  "Jesus creeping shit!  |
|  of fulfilling a lifelong ambition -   |  We've walked into a    |
|  dropping acid on the Great Wall."     |  time capsule!"         |
 ------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: alt.atheism
From: weemba@libra.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Achilles heels for religion?
Date: 7 Apr 92 14:38:15 GMT
Reply-To: weemba@libra.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology
In-reply-to: rescorla@rtnmr.chem.yale.edu (Eric Rescorla)

In article <1992Apr7.005113.710@cs.yale.edu>, rescorla@rtnmr (Eric Rescorla) writes:
>>I presume you're still confused that I'm claiming my methods work with all
>>teachers.  No such luck.

>Not at all. Necessary and work are two different things. You claimed it was
>necessary for you. I'm not sure I accept your judgement about what
>was necessary. So, prove it was.

Show me the controlled studies that show that controlled studies are
necessary, as you keep insisting, for honest teacher self-evaluation.
I think you're just making it up on the spot.
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@libra.wistar.upenn.edu)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
From: dgraham@bmers30.bnr.ca (Douglas Graham)
Subject: Re: The Canaanites(was Re: Achilles heels for religion?)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Ottawa, Canada
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 92 03:56:18 GMT

In article <1992Apr06.210827.25916@watson.ibm.com> strom@watson.ibm.com (Rob Strom) writes:

>So the story is an improvement for its time, in
>that it emphasizes the triumph of righteousness
>over unrighteousness, rather than glorifying
>brute strength per se.

Well I think that the story needs a little more improvement for our
time.  This has been one of the big causes of war throughout history.
One group of people decides that it is more righteous than another,
and decides that it is their duty to wipe out the immoral bunch.
The problem is that it is the righteous bunch who get to define
"righteousness".  If Hitler had won WWII, our history books would
speak of how the Nazis had rid the world of the evil Jews, and made
the world safe for the righteous Nazis.  IMO, any decent moral teaching
should emphasize that there is no such thing as righteousness.  Only
self-righteousness.
--
Doug Graham         dgraham@bnr.ca         My opinions are my own.
From: weemba@libra.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Matthew P Wiener -- why is he so paranoid?
Date: 7 Apr 92 15:03:58 GMT
Reply-To: weemba@libra.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology
In-reply-to: graham@maths.su.oz.au (Graham Matthews)

In article <graham.702608962@bizet>, graham@maths (Graham Matthews) writes:
>Ok thats a fair deal, but Matthew when I, or others, ask a question,
>PLEASE do not take it as a criticism (you do this all the time) and
>reply with your Jewish trivia. Please take it as a question and answer
>it. I am sure people think you evade questions because what usually
>happens is the following :-

I evade questions that are irrelevant, or that can go on forever.  Eric
brought up his literalist reading of Joshua 8 in a discussion on how the
Bible is used by Jews to teach morality to children.

It wasn't relevant, and so it wasn't worth an answer.  He kept insisting
I was evading, yet when I asked him for what its relevance was, *he*
kept evading, yet no one took him to task for this.  Why not?  On the
third try, he finally admitted what its relevance was: none.

Moreover, there are *thousands* of oddities and contradictions and worse
in the Bible.  They have been explained and harmonized and interpretated
by the tradition for thousands of years.  I am _not_ going to get into
this Judaism-vs-literalism game any more than I have already--the task
is endless.
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@libra.wistar.upenn.edu)
From: nathans@coos.dartmouth.edu (Nathan Shafer)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: I FOUND THIS AMUSING
Date: 6 Apr 92 22:43:00 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

In article <92097.111119IO00198@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> Just some wierd dude <IO00198@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> writes:
>In article <1992Apr3.191949.16035@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>, nathans@coos.dartmouth.edu (Nathan Shafer) says:
>>In article <92094.114154IO00198@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> <IO00198@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
>>writes:
>>>Why is a baptist church putting out a pamphlet that says baptism
>>>and church membership don't count for anything ??
>>
>>  This is a new one; the usual criticism I see against Christianity
>>is that Christians are often self-serving and intellectually dishonest.
>>Now we have someone criticizing us for putting what we believe to be the
>>truth ahead of our local, parochial interests.

>  If that church thought that what they printed was the truth, then they
>wouldn't be a Baptist church. If you don't believe in Baptism, you don't
>become Baptist.

You presume too much from the name. Baptists as a separate denomination
originally came into being over the issue of adult baptism vs. infant
baptism, taking the position that baptism is really a choice that should
be made by a rational adult, and not by a child's parents before that
child is old enough to know the choice that is being made. Also, Baptists
prefer baptism by immersion (as opposed to baptism by "sprinkling" or
partial immersion) for some unknown reason, possibly for the strength of
its connection which what it symbolizes (death and rebirth).

   However, despite both of these, Baptists do not believe that baptism is
what saves. They see it as a sacrament that confirms the choice to follow
Christ, but acknowledge Christ as the mechanism of salvation. Very few
Baptists are going to tell you that baptism is absolutely necessary for
salvation.

Nathan Shafer
Dartmouth College, NH
From: edw@caligula.cts.com (Ed Watkeys)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Red Sea.
Date: 7 Apr 92 04:50:24 GMT
Article-I.D.: caligula.01050133.0d51vc
Reply-To: edw@caligula.cts.com (Ed Watkeys)
Organization: Guerrilla Networking Project
X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.5v4


In article <1992Apr6.180653.14636@wam.umd.edu> (alt.atheism), spinoza@next05wor.wam.umd.edu (Prince Lev of the Domovoi) writes:
> 
> In article <house.702520877@helios>  writes:
> > J5J@psuvm.psu.edu (John A. Johnson) writes:
> > >Imagine a
> > >scientist who is collecting data and then God stepping in to make
> > >normally impossible things happen (like parting the Red Sea).
> > 
> > BTW, I read that recent simulations have shown that freak wind  
> conditions
> > in the Red Sea should be able to part it.
> > 
> Not to mention earthquakes.
> 
> lev
> 

Isn't it just wishful thinking, trying to keep alive some glimmer of hope,
that possesses people to think about stuff like this? "Well, it's *possible*
that the Red Sea could naturally part, so who's to say it didn't when the
Bible said it did?" To me, it seems a lot like Veliovsky (sp?) with his
Venus-is-a-meteor-ejected-from-Jupiter stuff, trying to save the last remnants
of old time religion.

--
Ed Watkeys (Drexel U. Comp Sci)  "...if you wish to strive for peace
edw@caligula.cts.com              of soul and pleasure, then believe;
edw%caligula@phlpa.uucp           if you wish to be a devotee of truth,
ls.com!phlpa!caligula!edw         then inquire...." -- Nietzsche
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
From: perry@apollo.hp.com (Jim Perry)
Subject: Re: WEEMBA jests or admits atheism? (Was: Re: WEEMBA and DABROWSKI Angst
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA
Distribution: world,public
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 15:16:59 GMT

In article <1992Apr09.223614.33366@watson.ibm.com> strom@watson.ibm.com (Rob Strom) writes:
>In article <1992Apr9.210604.19267@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu>, arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) writes:
>|> 
>|> Do you believe in an intelligent God who created the universe, who exists
>|> (in some sense in which Zeus and Santa Claus do not), who existed before there
>|> were any people around, and who later spoke to humans as recorded in the
>|> Tanakh, who gives orders and rules for morality (at least to Jews)?
>|> --
>I know very few Jews who would affirm the above in a literal sense.
>Many of us would affirm this in a metaphorical sense --- that is,
>we would teach lessons containing language roughly like this.
>Does that make most of us atheists?

In the sense that most of us seem to use the term, yes.  Whether or
not Jews in general have this sort of literal belief (and it seems to
me that "most of us" may be an exaggeration, but you probably know
better than I), this *is* the mainstream form of (Christian) belief we
perceive in our society, and it is on the whole the theism we are a-.

-- 
Jim Perry   perry@apollo.hp.com    HP/Apollo, Chelmsford MA
This particularly rapid, unintelligible patter
Isn't generally heard, and if it is it doesn't matter!
From: jn1a+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jad Nehme)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Truth
Date: 15 Apr 92 20:08:20 GMT
Organization: Masters student, Information Networking Institute, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

>Excerpts from netnews.alt.atheism: 15-Apr-92 Re: Truth John A.
>Johnson@psuvm.ps (530)

>In article <1992Apr15.033458.13891@access.usask.ca>,
>choy@skorpio.Usask.CA says:
>>
>>What do we know to be true?
>
>You will die.

What makes you think I am like every other human being dead so far?  Can
you prove your statement?  I didn't want to tell anyone, but,  since you
are bringing up the subject, I'll put you in: I can't die of old age.

Jad Nehme.
From: lippard@skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu (James J. Lippard)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: American Atheists address needed
Date: 16 Apr 92 18:51:00 GMT
Distribution: world,local
Organization: University of Arizona
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Apr16.044331.638@rice.edu>, mcbride@owlnet.rice.edu (Douglas Foster McBride) writes...
>I need AA's mailing address, as I am trying to order some
>of their Darwin Fish bumper stickers.  If anyone knows how
>much these cost as well, please let me know.

You can get them from the Freedom From Religion Foundation for $2 each
or three for $5 (includes P&H).  FFRF, P.O. Box 750, Madison, WI 53701

They also have a good selection of T-shirts and sweatshirts, books,
buttons, "Freethought Nontracts," and Bible warning label stickers.

Jim Lippard              Lippard@CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU
Dept. of Philosophy      Lippard@ARIZVMS.BITNET
University of Arizona
Tucson, AZ 85721
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
From: bobb@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Bob Beauchaine)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: FAQ file
Date: 16 Apr 92 21:50:43 GMT
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton,  OR.

In article <JsPBJB7w164w@mantis.co.uk> mathew@mantis.co.uk writes:
>bobb@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Bob Beauchaine) writes:
>>   Well, the FAQ expires after about 3 days on my system too, and as
>>   far as I know it doesn't appear anywhere but on this group.
>
>If it expires after about 3 days on your system, your system is broken.  I
>can quote RFCs chapter and verse if you don't believe me.
>

  My understanding of the short half life of posts here is disk
  space limitations.  Tektronix is, after all, in the business of
  making money (so they tell us).  The VAX on which I read news is
  used by many people for actual work related purposes.  About six
  months ago, several of the talk. newsgroups were removed from this
  site completely for this very reason.  So quote at will; I don't
  think anyone here is listening.  I can only presume it is the same
  elsewhere.  

>The FAQ file is cross-posted to news.answers, as the weekly reminder
>mentions.
>

  I looked there and it wasn't available.

>>   I don't see why you can't post it every couple of weeks for people
>>   who are new or unfamiliar with the intricacies of news.
>
>Because some people (like Mantis, for instance) pay for bandwidth.  Posting
>the file once a week instead of once a month would be a completely
>unnecessary waste of bandwidth.  Far better that we fix the broken software.
>

  Or realize that there are other forces at work here besides 
  providing employees with an interesting diversion in the middle of
  their work day.

  Not that I'm upset or flaming.  The real world doesn't always
  match the ideal.

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ 

Bob Beauchaine bobb@vice.ICO.TEK.COM 

Well, I vote for us to believe in an honest lawyer. There's a 
better chance that one exists than there is a chance that there is a god. 

No jesus, know peace.  Know jesus, no peace.
From: pertinax@raley.Gwinnett.COM (Pertinax)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: American Atheists address needed
Date: 14 Apr 92 23:08:39 GMT

U22015@uicvm.uic.edu (David Hanley) writes:
> I THINK ( not believe ) that i have seen the fish in the catalog, but
> I can't seem to find them now, so i can't tell you the price.
> 
> --DAVE!!

I don't think they sell the fish, however, this company does sell
a fish with feet containing the word "Darwin".  It's not clear from
the ad if it's metal (like the x-ians), or a sticker.

Send $5 to:

Darwinners
6671 Sunset Blvd., Ste 1525
L.A., CA 90028

*************************************************************************
* He will take you to the cleaners, if you covet your neighbor's wife   *
* He will give you a rabbit punch, if you make a graven image           *
* He will short-sheet your bed, if you bear false witness... Fish Karma *
*************************************************************************
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
From: wichmann@fsinfo.cs.uni-sb.de (Arne Wichmann)
Subject: Re: Question about modern manners
Organization: Fachschaft Informatik, U of Saarland, FRG
Distribution: world,local
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 18:12:32 GMT

mikel@Apple.COM (Mikel Evins) writes:
: In article <11APR199214230916@skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu> lippard@skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu (James J. Lippard) writes:
: 
: ["Gesundheit"]
: 
: >My German-English dictionary translates it as "bless you," but it
: >literally means something like "be healthy."
Well, maybe this translation is, because in English-speaking countries you
usually say "bless you" after a sneeze.

I never heard any connection of "Gesundheit" and any god. We say "Gesundheit",
because we wish someone to be (or get) healthy.

(There is another anecdote how this practise came into being...
 It deals with another source of sneezes: TBC. You wished someone to just have
 a cold and not TBC.)

: 
: "gesund" is the German for "health". It's cognate with the
(well... healthy)
: English "sound" (in the sense of strong or healthy; 'a
: sound mind in a sound body').
: 
[correct statements deleted]
: 
: Incidentally, for a little more fun with this line of thinking,
: Walter Cronkite can be rendered as "forester sickness." (Walder =
: someone who comes from, or lives in, a forest; Krankheit = sickness).
: 
Hmmm... I have difficulties reassembling that word (Walder), it doesn't
extist in German language practice, I would say it's artificial...
-- 
Na duw na feistr - o unrhyw fath na chr^ed
Arne Wichmann (wichmann@fsinfo.cs.uni-sb.de)
From: mathew@mantis.co.uk
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: FAQ file
Date: 14 Apr 92 10:49:32 GMT
Organization: Mantis Consultants, Cambridge. UK.

smaurer@artin.helios.nd.edu (sean maurer) writes:
> To whoever flamed Jon Newton for not reading The FAQ:
> My news reel thing doesn't have it anywhere on it even it I 
> wanted to read it (again)

Then your news system is set up incorrectly.  I suggest that you tell whoever
runs it.


mathew
-- 
Don't blame me, I didn't vote for them.
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
From: house@helios.usq.EDU.AU (ron house)
Subject: Re: different planet (was paranoid etc)
Organization: University of Southern Queensland
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 02:27:20 GMT

hedrick@dumas.rutgers.edu (Charles Hedrick) writes:

>bobb@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Bob Beauchaine) writes:

>>  This theme is even more obvious in Romans 13:

>>    "You must all obey the governing authorities.  Since all
>>    government comes from God, the civil authorities wre appointed
>>    by God, and so anyone who resists authority is rebelling against
>>    God's decision, and such an act is bound to be punished."

>>  So I guess the Nuremberg trials were nothing more than a sinful
>>  rebellion against God, as were the recent trials of the East
>>  German border guards accused of shooting attempting defectors, as
>>  have been the recent uprisings by the 30 or so million blacks in
>>  South Africa.  

>This passage has never been taken to mean that you should obey the
>authorities when they tell you to murder, nor do I think Paul meant it
>that way.

That's fine, if Paul is just a normal guy.  He can't be expected to
think of everything, and we can all make allowances for him.  But if
this passage is THE WORD OF GOD, as Xians would have us believe, then
it says >ALL< government, so it darn well >should< be taken to mean
just that.  If not, why not?  Or are only Xians allowed to pick and
choose what they like in the bible?

--

Ron House.                 USQ
(house@helios.usq.edu.au)  Toowoomba, Australia.
From: mikel@Apple.COM (Mikel Evins)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Is belief in Jesus Necessary for a moral society?
Date: 9 Apr 92 16:45:22 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

In article <4321@pharaoh.cyborg.bt.co.uk> martin@pharaoh.cyborg.bt.co.uk (Martin Gorman) writes:
>In article <2APR199217093163@jane.uh.edu> cosc143u@jane.uh.edu (91F9774) writes:
>>I recently read Flannery O'Connors "A good man is hard to find."  In it she
>>has the the main villain present the case that without belief in jesus there
>>is no point in being decent to anyone else.  Since there is no definite promise
>>of a big reward for living in a kind fashion, you should take advantage whenever
>>you can.  If you can get away with killing someone and it is to your benefit,

>It's the other way round. 
>A christian (like those in armies fighting with "god on their side")
>believes that he can kill as many people as he likes provided that
>god approves or he repents and believes in Jesus.

Look, it's not the other way around. People have an urge to
do nice things; to be good people; to satisfy an internal
measure of goodness. We also have urges that contradict this
urge. I don't see why that should be so hard to understand.
We have all sorts of contradictory urges. Being an atheist
doesn't obliterate all compassion and sense of what is
good; neither does being a Christian. As far as I can tell
the importance of 'moral imperatives' to an individual
is orthogonal to that individual's choice of (or lack
of) religion.
From: steinar@faust.solan.unit.no (Cindy Kandolf)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Question about modern manners
Date: 12 Apr 92 10:18:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: faust.STEINAR.92Apr12121826
	<1992Apr11.172232.23004@maths.tcd.ie>
	<1992Apr11.194811.26945@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu>
Organization: Flodnak, Inc., Trondheim, Norway

Ken Arrombee writes:
>>       "Gesundheit" comes to mind.
>This means "God bless you", as far as I know.

No, it's German for "health".  In other words, you're wishing the person a 
return to good health.

>My advice would be to ignore it. [Someone "blessing you" after a sneeze.]

That would be my advice, too.  Making a big deal about it is just inviting
an argument about faith, which is on my list of "things i don't want to
get into when i'm having an allergy fit".  I usually mumble a thanks and
let it drop.  (The reason i mumble "thanks" is because i feel they do mean
well - just trying to use the manners they were taught.)  If someone sneezes
around me, i'll usually use "Gesundheit".

All this applies to when i'm around English speaking folks.  Norskies tend
to just let it go.  If they do say anything it's usually "Prosit!", of
all things.  I think that's also a toast to health.

-Cindy Kandolf
 cindy@solan.unit.no
 Trondheim, Norway
From: weemba@libra.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Jews in the "real world" (was Re: Judaism and the FAQ file))
Date: 8 Apr 92 14:20:53 GMT
Reply-To: weemba@libra.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology
In-reply-to: ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik)

In article <22563@goofy.Apple.COM>, ksand@apple (Kent Sandvik) writes:
>> >I would yet want to see this happen during a Christian sermon. I've 
>> >never heard of anything similar. Can't say anything about any other
>> >religions and their holy sermons, [...]

>> Then shut up.

>Are you getting angry, should we move this to alt.flame?

If you don't know what you are talking about, post to alt.stupidity.
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@libra.wistar.upenn.edu)
From: ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Jews in the "real world" (was Re: Judaism and the FAQ file))
Date: 15 Apr 92 23:56:59 GMT
Distribution: world,public
Organization: MacDTS Mongols

In article <73444@netnews.upenn.edu>, weemba@libra.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P
Wiener) writes:
> In article <22610@goofy.Apple.COM>, ksand@apple (Kent Sandvik) writes:
> >Matthew, as a Jew I would hope you would understand the dangers of
> >separating humans from humans.

> No one is calling for a full scale separation.  The dangers you are
> concerned about are imaginary.

Any separation of humans which are not related ot health reasons
are dangerous. I hope history should have told us the outcomes
of such barbaric actions. I hope...

Cheers,
Kent
From: bobb@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Bob Beauchaine)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: The "God Does Not Exist" Proof
Keywords: God
Date: 14 Apr 92 16:39:51 GMT
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton,  OR.

In article <1992Apr7.140653.12527@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE> zeisset@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE (Stephan Zeisset) writes:
>So god thinks about good and evil and both come into 
>existence. He decides to eradicate the evil and the evil 
>ceases to exist. But as our human perception is limited
>in time and space, millions of years of suffering lie
>in between.

  And you have actually convinced yourself that this is a good
  thing?  That the being who creates and inflicts injustice on the
  world has no direct connection to those consequences?  That
  millions of years of misery are acceptable because it happens in a
  split second of god-time?  Think about what you wrote!

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ 

Bob Beauchaine bobb@vice.ICO.TEK.COM 

Well, I vote for us to believe in an honest lawyer. There's a 
better chance that one exists than there is a chance that there is a god. 

No jesus, know peace.  Know jesus, no peace.