HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: km@speedy.cs.pitt.edu (Ken Mitchum)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Use of term allopath
Date: 28 Jul 92 14:45:33 GMT
Reply-To: km@cs.pitt.edu (Ken Mitchum)
Organization: Computer Science Dept., University of Pittsburgh

>Please provide the quote 
>where I said anything about "making joints normal". 

You (or someone) indicated that traditional medicine provided
only symptomatic treatment, whereas alternative medicine
provided cures. If that is so, I would expect alternative
treatments for arthritis to make the joints normal again.

>If you want to continue
>to live in your own narrow world, thinking  only so-called scientific medicine
>has any validity and all else is quackery, be my guest. But you do not
>know what you are talking about. Stick to "scientific medicine" where
>you have expertise.

Yes, I live in a very narrow world indeed. I probably haven't
seen nearly as much disease and medicine as you have. I may
not know what I am talking about, but if that disqualifies one
from posting on a subject, this newsgroup gets closed down
more quickly than most others. Get a life. I'll post when I
want to.

 -km


Newsgroups: sci.military
From: pstinson@pbs.org
Subject: B-50 #46-014?
Organization: PBS:Public Broadcasting Service, Alexandria, VA
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 17:51:38 GMT


From pstinson@pbs.org

The first aircraft to circle the globe nonstop was the B-50 Lucky Lady II
#46-010 in 1949.  It was actually the second aircraft to attempt the mission.
The first one, Global Queen, was forced to land in the Azores due to an engine
fire.  In the picture often used to illustrate the inflight refueling technique 
that made the mission possible, a KB-29M tanker is refueling the B-50 serial
number 46-014.  This is not Lucky Lady II!  Could this B-50 pictured actually
be Global Queen?  If not, does any one know Global Queen's number? 

Newsgroups: sci.military,soc.history
From: military@att.att.com (Bill Thacker)
Subject: 50 Years Ago: Wednesday, 22 July, 1942
Organization: NCR Corporation - Law Department
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 16:59:37 GMT


From military@att.att.com (Bill Thacker)

Wednesday, 22 July, 1942

German troops begin a large attack against Rostov.

A counterattack by the 15th Panzer Division mauls the 6th New Zealand 
Brigade and the 161st Indian Brigade.  The British 23rd Armored Brigade
moves up to support, but stumbles into a minefield and is caught by massed
antitank guns.  Another thrust by 15th Panzer overwhelms the British, who
lose 86 tanks.

Japanese troops on New Guinea attack southward, reaching the Soputa region.

Britain rejects an American proposal code-named Sledgehammer for a 
small-scale invasion across the English Channel, preferring to wait 
until a major invasion can be
launched.

Germany begins relocating Jews from Warsaw.  A new concentration camp is
opened at Treblinka.

--	--	--	--	--	--	--	--	--
Bill Thacker			            military@att.att.com
Send submissions for "50 Years Ago" to military-request@att.att.com

"The British 23rd Armored Brigade, which had just arrived from England,
then went forward in what has been described as "a real Balaclava charge."
- Major General F.W. von Mellenthin, _Panzer Battles_, quoting the history
of the 5th New Zealand Division
Newsgroups: sci.military
From: chf0@newshost.gte.com (Curtis Fennell)
Subject: Re: Marines, are they needed?
Organization: GTE Laboratories, Waltham, MA
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 18:03:44 GMT


From chf0@newshost.gte.com (Curtis Fennell)


|> From jmc@sail.stanford.edu (John McCarthy)
|> 
|> Someone posted that the Marines exist to support Navy missions.  To
|> this layman it seems that the reverse is more nearly true and
|> will be more true in the future.  For example, Marines afloat
|> in the Adriatic provide a very credible threat to use force
|> in Yugoslavia.

The National Security Act of 1947 is the principal controlling
military legislation of this country and establishes the modern
military organization.  Responsibilities and duties of the Department
of the Navy are set out in sec 206, with the Marine Corps' duties
being set out in subparagraph "c" as follows:

"Sec.206(c) The Marine Corps, within the Department of the Navy, shall
be so organized as to include not less than three combat divisions and
three air wings, and such other land combat, aviation, and other
services as may be organic therein.  The Marine Corps shall be
organized, trained, and equipped to provide fleet marine forces of
combined arms, together with supporting air components, for service
with the fleet in the seizure and defense of advanced naval bases and
for the conduct of such land operations as may be essential to the
prosecution of a naval campaign.  In addition, the Marine Corps shall
provide detachments and organizations for service on armed vessels of
the Navy, shall provide security detachments for the security of naval
property at naval stations and bases, and shall perform such other
duties as the President may direct.  However, these additional duties
may not detract from or interfere with the operations for which the
Marine Corps is primarily organized."

		-From "The Marine Officer's Guide" Paragraph 301

This paragraph basically defines the Marine Corps' primary role as
"the seizure and defense of advance naval bases and ... the conduct of
such land operations as may be essential to the prosecution of a naval
campaign".  This is the Marines' main reason for existing.

However, there hasn't really been a sustained naval campaign since
WWII. So most of the Marines' combat duties since WWII have come from
the part of the paragraph that states "[the Marines] shall perform
other duties as the President may direct".  Naturally this covers just
about anything, from Embassy duty to Desert Storm. 

Another interesting aspect of this definition of the Marine Corps
mission is that it specifically defines the size of the Marine Corps
to be 3 divisions and 3 air wings.  The USMC is the only service to be
have it's size defined *by law*.  I couldn't find out why this was
from the Marine Officer's Guide, but as I recall, Marine legend on
this is that it was an effort by political supporters of the Marines
to keep opponents from gradually eliminating the Marines a piece at a
time.

Semper Fi,
Curt Fennell

-- 
Curt Fennell			* chf0@gte.com
Unix System Administrator	* (617) 466-2142
GTE Labs, 40 Sylvan Road	* "Get down off that cross!
Waltham, MA, 02254		*  Somebody needs the wood"
From: liats3@cspyr1.cs.adfa.oz.au (LIANG TIAN)
Newsgroups: sci.military
Subject: Re: Tracers
Date: 28 Jul 92 13:03:07 GMT
Organization: Australian Defence Force Academy, Canberra, Australia


From liats3@cspyr1.cs.adfa.oz.au (LIANG TIAN)

liats3@cspyr1.cs.adfa.oz.au (LIANG TIAN) writes:


>From liats3@cspyr1.cs.adfa.oz.au (LIANG TIAN)


>  I am sure the USN uses depleted uranium for the projectiles.
>This is to give a better effect on the incoming ASM because of
>it is denser than lead. The Australians uses lead. Why? I think
					      ^^^^
			  Oops, I mean tungsten, not lead.
>they don't like the enviromental effects. Don't know about the
>other countries.

/***********************************************************/
				Liang Tian Soon
				liats3@cspyr1.cs.adfa.oz.au
/***********************************************************/
From: jackson@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Dwight Jackson)
Newsgroups: sci.military
Subject: RE: Korean Metal Hulled ships...
Date: 23 Jul 92 18:36:16 GMT
Organization: NCR Corporation - Law Department


From Dwight Jackson <jackson@cpsc.ucalgary.ca>


These "Turtle" ships (finally remembered the name...) were wooden hulled,
and covered in (hexagonal?) iron plates that were effecitve enough to keep
out all forms of musket fire and arrows, etc.  If I remember correctly, they
also had a ram on the front, and were fast enough to use it to great effect
against the Japanese fleet.

...dwight
Newsgroups: sci.military
From: th2_oate@csd.brispoly.ac.uk (Tom Oates)
Subject: Re: Why execute spies?
Keywords: bizarreness
Organization: Bristol Polytechnic, England
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 17:19:41 GMT


From th2_oate@csd.brispoly.ac.uk (Tom Oates)

In article <1992Jul16.201006.2463@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> sun330!ur-guh.com!smith@uunet.UU.NET (Russ Smith) writes:
>
>From sun330!ur-guh.com!smith@uunet.UU.NET(Russ Smith)
>
>Why is there a "tradition" of executing spies caught during
>wartime? What makes a spy sufficiently different from any other
>soldier that the spy should be killed?

I think that the incident you're referring to took place during the
Battle of the Bulge in 1944. At the court martial, defence lawyers
protested that executing the spies was unfair as many had been
coerced into donning US army uniform and operating behind allied lines
spreading confusion/mayhem. However, it was decided at the highest
level that these "spies" would be executed to persuade German 
soldiers that it was not a good idea to wear US uniform.

The traditional reason spies are shot is as a deterrent. Everyone
knows this. It concentrates the mind wonderfully when someone tries
to recruit you. The last person I heard of who was shot for spying
was a Russian. He was executed in 1985 for supplying details of
Soviet avionics to CIA agents. He would have known what he faced
when he was recruited. Still, it didn't seem to deter him.

-- 
*************************************************************************
*  Tom Oates  (Bristol Poly, England)    *   DISCLAIMER:-               *
*  JANET: th2_oate@csd.brispoly.ac.uk    *   I speak only for myself.   *
*************************************************************************

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: regeorge@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Robert E George)
Subject: Re: "Why we fight"
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 12:51:52 GMT


From regeorge@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Robert E George)

In article <1992Jul29.130942.23159@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> jac54@cas.org write
s:
>
>From jac54@cas.org
>
>
>    The "Why We Fight" series has been generally available
>    for a long time.  I saw the one about the Battle of
[deletions]
 I've seen "Prelude to War", or at least large excerpts of it, on non-cable
television. Bill Moyers interviewed Capra at the end of the program; I recall
Capra referring to Hitler as a "little jerk." In Martin van Crevald's
"Fighting Power" there is a reference to an article on "Prelude to War"
which thought little of the film. I'll post it as soon as I find my copy
(unless somebody else beats me to it).

Robert George
(speaking only for myself)
From: creps@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Steve Creps)
Newsgroups: sci.military
Subject: Re:Why execute spies?
Date: 28 Jul 92 13:08:10 GMT
Organization: Indiana University


From creps@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Steve Creps)


   Does a lot of the reason that spies are executed go back to the old days
of the 17th & 18th centuries?  Perhaps it was just considered "not sporting"
to be able to avoid the risks associated with wearing a uniform.  Was the
attitude similar to, "Not very sporting of those bloody French and Indians,
hiding behind trees like that!"?

-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
Steve Creps
creps@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
Associate (civilian) Member, United States Naval Institute
Newsgroups: sci.military
From: nanis@ll.mit.edu (Jeff Nanis)
Subject: Warrior's Edge
Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1992 13:35:43 GMT


From nanis@ll.mit.edu (Jeff Nanis)

	The latest Defense News (July 6-12, 1992) has another article
on the Soldiers Integrated Protective Ensemble (SIPE) demonstration,
part of the Soldier As A System (SAAS) program, aka "Warrior's Edge".
I won't post the whole article (it's copyrighted - look it up in 
your library), but I'll summarize here.

	SIPE will be tested this fall with a 12-man infantry squad and
full-scale tests will run from '94 to '97, with a Block I system 
fielded in 1999. Initially, soldiers will get PCs, data links, and
IR sensors on their helmets. Block II is slated now for circa 2010
IOC. Possible technologies/systems to be incorporated are: new armor,
stealth, multi-purpose rifles (bullets and microgrenades), EMP-resistant
electronics, cooperative engagement/shared targeting data networks,
and tiny radios (credit-card sized). Supposedly, the Special Forces
are also interested in powered exoskeletons and drugs that enhance
learning ability.

-- 
  Jeff Nanis				MIT Lincoln Lab
		An official opinion? Be real. 

  nanis@ll.mit.edu			Radars 'r' us.

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: liats3@cspyr1.cs.adfa.oz.au (LIANG TIAN)
Subject: Re: Tracers/SAW
Organization: Australian Defence Force Academy, Canberra, Australia
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 17:19:27 GMT


From liats3@cspyr1.cs.adfa.oz.au (LIANG TIAN)

gt6511a@prism.gatech.edu (COCHRANE,JAMES SHAPLEIGH) writes:

[deleted]
>     The SAW (Squad Automatic Weapon) (M249) is a light machine gun firing the 
>M855 5.56 mm ball round...  It usually feeds from either a 250 round box or 30
							   !^^^!
  I am quite sure that the M249 has a 200 round box mag.
>round magazines.  Fieldstripping it is similar to fieldstripping an M60... From
>what I understand, it is even MORE finicky than an M16 when it comes to
>cleanliness and proper function... We don't get SAW's, so I haven't gotten to
>fire/mess with one yet...
  I find it hard to imagine a weapon that can be !more! fussy about
cleanliness than the M16. I am sure that a weapon with a piston to
drive the bolt carrier group back would be 'cleaner' than the M16
which just blows the gas back to the bolt carrier group with all the
carbon and residue remainding on the bolt group.
  
/***********************************************************/
				Liang Tian Soon
				liats3@cspyr1.cs.adfa.oz.au
/***********************************************************/
From: wmartin@STL-06SIMA.ARMY.MIL (Will Martin)
Newsgroups: sci.military
Subject: Re: TNT equiv of Semtex
Date: 28 Jul 92 13:02:47 GMT
Organization: NCR Corporation - Law Department


From Will Martin <wmartin@STL-06SIMA.ARMY.MIL>

Also check the book: _HOMEMADE SEMTEX C-4's Ugly Sister_ by Seymour Lecker,
as listed in the Delta Press catalog (item # C-835, $10, 27 pages, softcover)
[seems overpriced to me... :-)]. (I haven't seen this; only noticed the
catalog listing.)

Delta is at 800-852-4445 or 501-862-4984.

Will
Newsgroups: sci.military
From: asp+@pitt.edu (Anandeep Pannu)
Subject: Re: propeller planee's anti-torque problem
Organization: University of Pittsburgh
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 18:04:28 GMT


From asp+@pitt.edu (Anandeep Pannu)


All planes have this torque problem. In fact one of the reasons tail draggers
are harder to fly is that the torque from big engines and big propellers
makes them difficult to control on the ground. Most propeller planes have thier
fins offset so that at cruise power the torque is counterbalanced. This is 
equivalent to using rudder to offset torque. But even so when flying the 
Piper Super Cub PA-150 for the NCC (Indian ROTC equivalent) at Bombay Flying
Club I had to remember Increase Power Lead Left Rudder - Decrease Power Lead
Right Rudder to counter balance torque. My instructor was most insistent that
I keep the ball in the centre !
By the way my friend who went on to fly Mig-21s for the IAF told me that 
they had to use rudder to counterbalance all that whirling turbine torque
too !
So it happens to jets too !


Newsgroups: sci.military
From: asp+@pitt.edu (Anandeep Pannu)
Subject: Re: Marines, are they needed?
Organization: University of Pittsburgh
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 17:07:32 GMT


From asp+@pitt.edu (Anandeep Pannu)


The Indian Army also has a brigade tasked to Amphibious landings but
as far as I know the units (Infantry, Artillery, Engineers) are 
rotated on 3 year postings. The Indian Navy has a few LCTs and I 
think a few were made at Mazgaon Docks in Bombay. During the 
Sri Lankan jaunt of the Indian Army this brigade was used in 
and around Jaffna in Sri Lanka. But the problem here is the 
Indian Armys traditional orientation towards land battles. 
I do not think they have ever considered mounting a major Marine 
Operation. The takeover of Goa from the Portugese was classified
as a "police action" in typical Nehru doublespeak. 

The Indian Navy has something called a Indian Marine Special Force
along the lines of the SEALs. In fact the first two officers to 
belong to this unit were trained by the US Navy SEALS. One of 
them LT. Vivek Singh was supposed to have passed out at the top
of his course.

 

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: Ruth Mazo Karras <RKARRAS@PENNSAS.UPENN.EDU>
Subject: FTP Site
Organization: NCR Corporation - Law Department
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 17:57:40 GMT


From Ruth Mazo Karras <RKARRAS@PENNSAS.UPENN.EDU>

I can not keep up with the volume of information on this list, but I would
like to get a synopsis of the current thinking on the Gulf War from a military
standpoint. I would appreciate it if someone could send me the address of an
anonymous FTP site for archives of the digest or such a synopsis. I do not
have usenet access.

Please respond to RKarras@PennSAS.UPenn.edu. Thanks, Chris Karras
From: manuelp@ecf.toronto.edu (MANUELPILLAI Gerald Nishanthan)
Newsgroups: sci.military
Subject: Re: Why execute spies?
Date: 23 Jul 92 18:35:31 GMT
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility


From manuelp@ecf.toronto.edu (MANUELPILLAI Gerald Nishanthan)

>#Why is there a "tradition" of executing spies caught during
>#wartime? What makes a spy sufficiently different from any other
>#soldier that the spy should be killed?
>
>

One thing that some posters seem to be missing here.   The principal
reason for executing spies is deterrence.   This is why the Geneva
Convention allows this to happen to captured spies (whereas strictly
forbidding any kind of retaliation against uniformed POW's).  
It was understood that military secrets need to be protected, and one
has to be able to use all means at one's disposal to do that. 

Of course, there may be other reasons for most armies following this rule
a little zealously.   Nothing like taking out a little frustration by
popping a couple of 'fifth columnists' :-)  But, I digress ...   

Gerald M 
Newsgroups: sci.military
From: buckley@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (BUCKLEY  CHARLES RAY)
Subject: Re: Why execute spies?
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 12:57:26 GMT


From buckley@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (BUCKLEY  CHARLES RAY)

In article <1992Jul28.130810.25584@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> creps@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Steve Creps) writes:
>
>From creps@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Steve Creps)
>
>
>   Does a lot of the reason that spies are executed go back to the old days
>of the 17th & 18th centuries?  Perhaps it was just considered "not sporting"
>to be able to avoid the risks associated with wearing a uniform.  Was the
>attitude similar to, "Not very sporting of those bloody French and Indians,
>hiding behind trees like that!"?
>
>-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
>Steve Creps
>creps@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
>Associate (civilian) Member, United States Naval Institute

I have a copy of Sun Tzu's 'Art of War' which talks a lot about spies. In this
book he defines 5 types of spies: local spies; internal spies; converted spies;
doomed spies; and surviving spies.
 The rough functions of these spies are as follows:

local   -      just what it says. Natives to gather information or to show route

inward  -      officials of the enemy. Must caution must be used.

converted -    their spies. The classic double agent.

doomed spies -  your own spies sent with false information sent behind enemy 
                lines. Sun Tzu advocates a double blind (i.e. the spy doesn't
                know the information is false). The spy will give a false 
                report and will be executed when it is proven false.

surviving   -   those who bring back news of the enemies camp. These are part
                of the regular army.

Of interest, the only place he advocates executing a spy is in the case when
the spy talks of a plan before the time is ripe. He also ststes that the person
that the spy talked to should also be killed.  The classic 'I can tell you but
then I would have to kill you' routine.
 The last line of this book is  'Spies are a most important element in war,
because upon them depends an armies ability to move.'   I would guess that he
considered them very important.

Charles Buckley



Newsgroups: sci.military
From: island!fester@uunet.UU.NET (Mike Fester)
Subject: Re: Why execute spies?
Keywords: bizarreness
Organization: /usr/local/rn/organization
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 15:19:29 GMT


From island!fester@uunet.UU.NET (Mike Fester)

In article <1992Jul16.201006.2463@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> sun330!ur-guh.com!smith@uunet.UU.NET(Russ Smith) writes:
>
>From sun330!ur-guh.com!smith@uunet.UU.NET(Russ Smith)
>
>Why is there a "tradition" of executing spies caught during
>wartime? What makes a spy sufficiently different from any other
>soldier that the spy should be killed?

It goes WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY back in time. Sun Tze writes (in _The Art of War_)
that nothing should be more closely guarded, or so vigorously prosecuted, as
spies and the information they obtain/threaten to divulge (ie, intelligence).
It endangers more lives, threatens to ruin more plans, makes things more easy 
than perhaps any other aspect of warfare. 

>The basis for this question was the viewing of an old WWII
>newsreel showing the execution of a couple German soldier/spies.
>B-I-I-G guy and little guy - little guy was none-too-happy about his situation.

I don't blame him.

> Didn't settle right...

C'est le guerre.

One of the best descriptions I've ever heard about that sort of situation was
by Unger (author of the Herman comic strip). He says (according to my possibly
faulty memory) "For the exact same deed, a man can get a medal or be shot, 
depending on where he gets off the bus." That about sums it up.

Mike
-- 
Disclaimer - These opiini^H^H damn! ^H^H ^Q ^[ .... :w  :q  :wq  :wq! ^d  X ^?
exit X Q  ^C ^? :quitbye  CtrlAltDel   ~~q  :~q  logout  save/quit :!QUIT
^[zz ^[ZZZZZZ ^H  man vi ^@  ^L  ^[c  ^# ^E ^X ^I ^T ? help  helpquit ^D  ^d 
man help ^C ^c help exit ?Quit ?q CtrlShftDel "Hey, what does this button d..."

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: thughes@lonestar.utsa.edu (Toby . Hughes)
Subject: Re: depleted uranium
Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 12:58:06 GMT


From thughes@lonestar.utsa.edu (Toby . Hughes)

In article <1992Jul28.130025.24034@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> arw4@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Aaron R Wininger) writes:
>
>From arw4@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Aaron R Wininger)
>
>Question:what are the advantages to using depleted uranium in ammunition?
>How long until succesfully destroyed targets can be scrapped or cannibalized?
>Aaron

Depleted uranium is, well, depleted.  The effect on the target is the same as
any other material.  D.U. is used because it is more dense than lead.  It
sounds scarier than it is, but there is no radiation hazard, if that was the
focus of your question.
>
TH

Newsgroups: sci.military