HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jay@puppsr12.Princeton.EDU (Jay Shrauner)
Subject: Hail Stanford!--best record in the PAC10
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 03:01:58 GMT

After 4 losing seasons while I was at Stanford, and GA Tech's Christmas
present last year (I'd prefer a lump of coal..), I was damn happy to win
our bowl this year.  I have to admit being so bored I switched the TV to
the Cotton Bowl...where TAMU was so depressing I had to switch to the
Citrus Bowl.

As disappointed as I was with the PAC-10's performance--hey, here's to the
best team in the PAC-10:  Stanford with a final record of 10-3.  This is
our first 10 win season since 1940, so I think I'll relish it.

I could go on to make outrageous predictions for next year, but who wants to
be mistaken for a Miami fan?  Congrats to Alabama for rounding out a nice
New Years Day--some blowouts are too much fun to stop watching.

Jay Shrauner
jay@phoenix.princeton.edu

Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
From: weyland@sn.jsc.nasa.gov (WEYLAND,MARK)
Subject: Re: Dallas Morning Enqui--- 'er News
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Arizona MIS Department - Mosaic Group
Date: 12 Jan 1993 08:57 CST  

In article <CNg=8lA@engin.umich.edu>, hajel@engin.umich.edu (john hajel) writes...
>In article <C0pDFx.A6F@trc.amoco.com> zcjm0f@wwnv67.hou.amoco.com (CJohn Mace) writes:
>>What?  Hasn't any of you heard that the DMN published another story about
>>Greg Hill?  He supposedly worked the week that A&M was preparing for 
>>Florida State in last years Cotton Bowl...  Not only that, but he 
>>supposedly worked 2 different jobs!!!  Of course this was front page
>>news for the DMN, not so in many other local papers.  It seems that 
>>some of the other papers in the state are kinda taking what the DMN
>>says with a grain of salt.  The article in the Houston Chronicle this
>>weekend had a kind of guarded wording.  I have heard that one of the
>>San Antonio papers was the same.  Anyone else see anything about the 
>>DMN article in any of the other Texas papers.
>>
>>Beat the Hell outta the Dallas Morning News!!!
>>
> 
>Shoot the messenger??

Only whenst thou messenger speaketh before knowing the truth.

His point is the dmn sometimes prints things as facts which are based on 
rumors or a single source (eg. the Aggie bonfire is built by contractors).  
This was actually printed.  Much like the Star or Natl. Enquirer etc.

GIG'EM  AGS!!!

Mark Weyland
Texas A&M University - Class of '88

> 
>John Hajel  
> 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
From: allen@tessi.com (Allen Warren)
Subject: Re: Ohio State Football - No fun, no future to it's players and recruits
Organization: Test Systems Strategies, Inc., Beaverton, Oregon
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 01:39:47 GMT

jb118@prism.gatech.EDU (Jeffrey N. Burch) writes:

>Cooper and Ohio State owe their players the opportunity to play football
>and get an education (not necessarily in that order).  They don't owe
>them bowl wins, personal awards, or fat pro contracts.  That's up to the
>players themselves.  If those guys were expecting such things, they need 
>to wake up.



I will agree that Cooper and Ohio State owe their players the opportunity
to play football and get an education, BUT, let's be realistic here.
The alumni *EXPECT* a winning program, and Ohio State, under Woody
Hayes, really became a powerhouse, thereby spoiling OSU fans to the point
where now, if a team doesn't go to the Rose Bowl, it's considered a losing
season.  Hey, I attended Ohio State and have seen first-hand how savage
the alumni can be.  I was there when Woody got fired and Earle Bruce
took over, leading the Buckeyes to a Rose Bowl and Top Ten end-of-season
ranking in his first year with one regular-season loss and an outstanding
1980 Rose Bowl loss to Charles White and his buddies at USC.  After that
first season, the Buckeye fans (read:  Alumni) had appetites wetted for
a string of undefeated or one-loss seasons that never materialized.  The
problem is that in recruiting, especially for Ohio State and the big
Division 1 schools, the success of the football program (read: National
Rankings in the Top 10 and major Bowl Game appearances) will sway a kid
looking at the college level as a mere stepping-stone to the Pro's.
The best football players in the country want to go with the winning
programs.  Why?  If you're a receiver, running back or quarterback,
you're looking for a Division 1 team that consistently finishes in the
Top 10 to Top 15, so that you get lots of exposure and *possibly* some
great stats, which then translates into media hype for the Heisman.  If
you're a linebacker, lineman, etc., you're looking for a winning program
which will mean the team gets more TV coverage and you could *possibly*
get more exposure to pro scouts.  I'm not saying that teams with records
like Ohio State are NOT going to be seen by the scouts, but the better
the team, the more the scouts come around.

So no, Cooper and Ohio State don't owe the players bowl wins or anything
else in that vein, but recruits *still* look at the success of the team,
thereby knowing whether or not they'll get more exposure and *possibly*
a better shot at the Pro's.

allen
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
From: dhead@comanche.ess.harris.com (David Head)
Subject: Re: Florida!  THE college football state
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 20:36:19 GMT
Reply-To: dhead@comanche.ess.harris.com
Organization: Harris Corporation, Government Aerospace Systems Division

In article 3332@doug.cae.wisc.edu, saunders@luther.che.wisc.edu (Brian E. Saunders) writes:
>In article <1993Jan6.185743.13834@mlb.semi.harris.com> dhead@comanche.ess.harris.com writes:
>>
>>As we can see, all three major colleges in Florida finished in the top 10. 
>>No other state has more than one (1) school in the top 10.  Kind of gives
>>a good indication of the strength of football in Florida doesn't it?
>
>Not necessarily.  Florida could import most of its players (I know they
		   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>don't, but I'm being hypothetical here).  For instance, look at the
 ^^^^^
>Washington schools:  they have more players from California than
>Washington, it seems.  In North Carolina's case, I'd guess that they have
>quite a few imported players.  All your arguement proves is that the
>Florida colleges are good in football.


But Brian, that's just it!  Florida schools don't import most of their
players and they are good in football!  The logical conclusion is that
Florida high schools must turn out good talent to feed the Florida colleges.
I'll grant that weather and population give Florida an advantage over, say,
the state of Nebraska.  But it doesn't change the point that Florida looks
to be the state of football BECAUSE it can supply enough talent to support
3 top 10 programs (as well as supply quality players to many other schools
all over the country).

D. Head
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
From: jfrederi@encore.com (Justin Frederich)
Subject: Re: Miami Sugar Bowl Question
Organization: Encore Computer Corporation
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 22:10:00 GMT

aggie@wealthy.ocean.fsu.edu (I R A Aggie) writes:

>In article <1id3hgINNrk0@shelley.u.washington.edu>,
>tannerg@carson.u.washington.edu (Glenn Tanner) wrote:

>> My question is if Miami is the Hurricanes why is there mascot a bird?

>Additional question: the Sugar Bowl's scoreboards before the game
>had welcome messages for the teams, and what caught my attention
>was that they welcomed "Dennis Erikson and the Miami Golden 
>Hurricanes".

>Did they screw up, and think they'd invited Tulsa???

>James

Yea they had that on a couple of times. I think the Tulsa Golden Hurricanes
dressed out in Miami uniforms (they probably would have done better) :-)

Justin


Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
From: mm42@prism.gatech.EDU (Mark Mitchell)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Subject: Re: Some thoughts on the Sugar Bowl from a Miami fan
Date: 7 Jan 93 16:17:41 GMT
Organization: Ramblin' Wrecks from Georgia Tech

dbrown@newssun.med.miami.edu (Daniel Brown) wrote:
}
}                      There is now denying that the Orange Bowl would
}be a "home" game for Miami, but to say that playing in the Sugar Bowl
}is only a minor advantage is ridiculous (worse than silly).  

On the contrary, what is silly is to equate playing a game in
your home stadium to playing one 400 miles away in a stadium
with different conditions.  It is called "home field advantage"
because it happens at one's HOME FIELD.  You can't pack it up
and bring it with you.

However, the closer to their normal home field conditions it is,
the better teams seem to perform.

The crowd has very little to do with it.  Forget about silly
audible arguments for a moment and think about other sports.
In pro and college basketball, in pro baseball, in many, many
sports there is a MEASURABLE home field/court advantage.  What
does the crowd have to do with the performance of a pro baseball
team?  It's not the crowd, it's the familiar playing conditions.

}                                                            It's like
}saying the Gator Bowl isn't a "home" advantage for UF.  

Until recently it wasn't much of one, because Florida played on
turf at home and they would generally play Georgia there, who
played on grass.  Hmmm ... and since Florida started playing on
grass at home they've had much better success against Georgia.
(Of course there are other factors at work, such as the strengths
of the two teams, but still this is an interesting validation.)
Against NC State, Florida enjoyed a negligible advantage - two
grass teams playing on grass, in their home time zone, and in
temperatures pretty close to what both were used to.  Big deal.

}                                                        Hell, even the 
}Alabama players said that the Sugar Bowl was a home field advantag ...

And Gene Stallings said the the SEC championship was not a home game, 
even though it was played at Legion Field.  These guys are not 
statisticians, and their opinions of what constitutes a home
field are interesting but highly unreliable.

-- 
Mark Mitchell           Georgia Tech            mm42@prism.gatech.edu
   "My dad's a cotton-pickin', finger-lickin', chicken plucker,
               now what do you think about that?"
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
From: hpang@engin.umich.edu (Ho Sun Pang)
Subject: Re: Conference Strength
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 93 11:28:32 EST
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor

In article <1993Jan4.132630.13234@mlb.semi.harris.com> dhead@comanche.ess.harris.com writes:
>
>
>So, let's see.  How did the conferences do in bowl games?  Something like
>
>
>SEC    5 out of 6
>ACC    3 out of 4
>PAC10  2 out of 6
>
>
>Not sure about the rest, but no other conference had more than 2 wins.  It
>is obvious that the SEC was really the strongest, but the ACC held its own.


Just a bread for thoughts:  You cannot simply use no. of bowl wins to
determine which conference is the toughest/best.  Say, may be a
conference which having 6 teams in bowl games and win 5 of
them because most of them are playing nobody in these bowl games.

- Louis
From: gt6249c@prism.gatech.EDU (Bin Chen)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Subject: Re: Trying to discredit Alabama
Date: 5 Jan 93 08:40:11 GMT
Organization: Cracker Barrel

In article <rs@haydn.crhc.uiuc.edu> ttsai@crhc.uiuc.edu (Timothy Tsai) writes:
>The University of Alabama football team won the national championship.  They
>played great football and showed class throughout the game.  Unfortunately,
>there seems to be a conspiracy on this net.  >>Some<< posters are attempting
>to portray Alabama fans as being sore winners. 

Really?  I thought they were just trying to show Miami fans that  
the only woofs that count are the ones after January 1st.
 
>Some posts are getting ridiculous.

But can you blame them?  After almost a month of posts from Miami
fans saying how they were going to blow us out, shred our defense,
stuff our offense, etc.  Turnabout is fair play.  a little trash 
talk isn't going to hurt anyone.
From: wm1o+@andrew.cmu.edu (William Karamo Motley)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Subject: FSU,MICHIGAN,TAMU,BAMA
Date: 10 Jan 93 10:38:08 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.cfI8Ykq00iV3Q29VQd
Organization: Sophomore, Civil Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

First of all, I have a few words to swallow.  

Michigan- I used to be pro-Michigan until the tie against ND.  When
Michigan jumped to #3, I started to hate them.  Late in the season, I
even said that they don't even deserve to be in the top 10 and I also
mentioned that UWash. would kick the pants off of them in the Rose Bowl.
 Well,well...
Michigan proved that they can beat a team with a winning record!  I've
got to give it to them, they hung in there and managed to pull out a
victory.  For a while in the 4th quarter, I thought the game would end
up in a 31-31 tie.:).  I'm not saying they deserve their #5 spot, I
think they don't, but I give credit where credit is due.

BAMA- I said that Bama was overrated.....
OOPS!

However it gives me particular satisfaction to see that I was right
about FSU being better than TAMU.

Too bad FSU had to get stuck with Nebraska in the Orange Bowl.  Some
guy, Chris Stassen, tried calling me stupid because I kept insisting
that FSU was better than TAMU.  Well, chris, call me immature, but I
TOLD YOU SO!!!!!  ND-28 A&M-3.  Need I say more????  But A&M fans, you
shouldn't wory.  The team is VERY young and should be a HUGE threat next
season.

Will
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
From: kschudt@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Karl C Schudt)
Subject: Re: Suggestion to the NCAA
Organization: The Ohio State University
 <aggie-070193121141@wealthy.ocean.fsu.edu>
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 19:36:31 GMT

In article <aggie-070193121141@wealthy.ocean.fsu.edu> aggie@wealthy.ocean.fsu.e
du (I R A Aggie) writes:
>In article <79213@hydra.gatech.EDU>, mm42@prism.gatech.EDU (Mark Mitchell)
>wrote:
>>
>> aggie@wealthy.ocean.fsu.edu (I R A Aggie) wrote:
>> }
>> }These are big boys, not children. They're old enough to think and
>> }decide things for themselves. They don't deserve such a saftey
>> }net - the rest of the student body doesn't get anything remotely
>> }like it!
>>
>> Are you nuts?  When I was at school on an academic scholarship, I could
>> go anywhere and talk to anyone about a job with *no chance* of losing
>> my scholarship "eligibility".  The rest of the student body gets
>
>I'd forgotten that. Easy to do when one is paying the freight out of
>pocket. I retract the above.
>
>Still, I don't much like the idea, as it edges the CFA one step closer
>to being the farm system for the NFL.
>
>How about *no* sports scholarships at all? These are *supposed* to be
>institutions of higher education, right?
>
>James

Yes, they are supposed to be institutions of higher learning, but I don't see 
anything wrong with giving scholarships for non-strictly academic reasons. Here
is a story for you: Chris Zorich wasn't an outstanding high school student. He 
was, according to ND, accepted "because of the look in his eyes." Some people 
would say that this was a bad thing, that academics should have been the sole 
basis for his admission. These people, however, miss the point :Zorich
SUCCEEDED! He graduated! They made the correct decision on him "because of the 
look in his eyes." If they hadn't (and nobody else did, the no-scholarship way)
it is likely Chris would be uneducated working in a factory in Chicago (or shot
dead on the streets).
     Certainly there are people who dont belong in college, but many of the 
players do belong. No scholarships would eliminate a lot of oppurtunities (bad 
for the players) and decrease the level of play to that in the Ivy Leagu (bad 
for us, the fans)

Karl Schudt
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
From: tjb@emt.b17c.ingr.com (Tony Bowman)
Subject: Re: Miami strategy?
Reply-To: tjb@emt.b17c.ingr.com  
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 17:13:25 GMT

In article <1993Jan4.162214.16975@cbnews.cb.att.com>, tpp@cbnews.cb.att.com (thomas.p.pschar) writes:
|> 
|> 
|> Here's the real question.  Why didn't Miami stack about eight guys on the
|> line of scrimmage every down during the second half?  Or was somebody actually
|> afraid Alabama might pass?
|> 
|> (By the way, I was rooting against Torretta, since I don't think he in any way
|> deserved the Heisman.)

	'cause the arrogant SOB's really thought Bama couldn't play with 
	them.  The Miami fans even boo'd Gino.  I know, because I was sitting
	in their section. (which turned out to be fun 'cause I gave them
	HELL for 3-4 hours)  For as long as I live, I will never forget
	Lamar "the fastest receiver in football"  Thomas being run down
	from behind by one of "o.k." defensive backs.  Lamar looked like
	a little kid in pee wee football compared to Bama's AWSOME "D".

	RROOOOOOOOOLL  TIDE ROLL   !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!	
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
^  Tony Bowman                  | R      	|      _**_                  ^
^  System Support               |  O  T         |     /     :-IIIIIIIIIIII   ^
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^~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: rowdy@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (robert.dieckmann)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Subject: Big East Review: TEMPLE
Date: 4 Jan 93 21:26:20 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: AT&T


Well, the bowl games have been played, which should officially
mark the end of the college football season.  It's time to reflect
on what kind of season it was for the Big East teams.  I'll do one
team a day, starting at the bottom of the heap and working up the
chart.  Bottom of the heap?  Must be Temple. So, here goes.


TEMPLE TRAUMA

How about we let America's Favorite Comedian pick a head coach?
For this team, why not?  Reportedly comedian Bill Cosby, a Temple
alum, was influential in Temple picking Clemson aide Ron Dickerson
to succeed Jerry Berndt as the head coach of the Temple football team.
But, that's for the 1993 preview; I'll continue with the 1992 review.

It was a disastrous year for Temple football.  Completing their
second year in the Big East they have yet to win a conference game.
In 1992 they didn't win a real out-of-conference game too.
The final was 1-10 with the lone win being the opening game against
Div 1-AA Boston University.


On the bright side:

1. 26 seniors say good-bye to the program.


On the dim side:

1.  Huge losses to everyone except Pittsburgh, a 7-point loss.
(This kind of lets you know the year Pitt had too.)

2. In 10 Div.1A games: 97 points scored, 363 points surrendered.

3. Terrible attendance.  There was an "official" crowd of 8,000 at
the final home game.  (The radio guy estimated there were 500 fans
on one side of Veterans Stadium and 500 fans on the visitors side.)


The pressure to win, and win NOW apparently got to Coach Jerry Berndt.
For the last three recruiting years he brought in a dozen or more JUCOs
each year. It worked the first year as he transformed a 1-10 team
to go 7-4.  But it backfired the last 2 years, producing 3 wins and
19 losses.

          1992*   1991*   1990*   1989*   1988    1987    1986
Temple    1-10    2-9     7-4     1-10    4-7     4-7     0-11   

*  The Jerry Berndt years (11-33).

The dismal performance of Temple drags down the entire Conference.
Here's hoping Dickerson can recruit some decent athletes for the Big
Easts biggest school and biggest embarassment.

-- 
"Listen up son, and pay attention.   |  Bob Dieckmann (rwd@quartet.att.com)
How ya' gonna learn anything if you  |  GO: Mets (& dear old Rutgers)
always got your head in a book?"     |  I probably should've included smileys.
                -- Foghorn Leghorn   |  **usual disclaimer**
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
From: harbison@dbsun.uucp (harbison)
Subject: Re: Miami strategy?
Organization: BioMerieux-Vitek, St. Louis Mo.
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 03:50:58 GMT

In article <1993Jan4.175908.16742@newssun.med.miami.edu>
dbrown@newssun.med.miami.edu (Daniel Brown) writes:
> I heard that the officials told the UM coaching staff before the game
> that no penalties would be given for a noisy crowd.  Is that true?  From
> what I understand, if they offensive captain complains three times about
> noise, the defense gets penalized ... if so, do the referees have the
> authority to nullify that rule?

As I recall, the officials, not a visiting players or coach, determine
what constitutes excessive noise.  The officials warn the home team
when the crowd noise is judged to be excessive.  If crowd noise
continues to be excessive, then the home team can be penalized.  The
officials are not required to make measurements of the noise level and
no sound pressure level (SPL) meter reading is defined to be the
threshold of excessive noise.  The decision is subjective.

I assume the officials consider the fact that a dome is noisier than
an open stadium, or that the visiting team's fans might also be adding
to the noise level, or that the visiting QB might just be a whiner. :-)
Repeated complaints by the visiting QB or coach might influence the
referee's opinion.  Of course with Gino's luck, the referee would be
a Ted Nugent fan like me!  :-)

If the rule were written as you described, the visiting QB could
complain after every play resulting in the home team being penalized
after every third play.  

-- 
*realName: Phil Harbison
*mailName: harbison%dbsun.uucp@wupost.wustl.edu
*phoneList: 314-731-7475 (w) 314-272-9318 (h)
Rama-jama-yellowhamma', give `em hell, Alabama!
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
From: dhead@comanche.ess.harris.com (David Head)
Subject: Re: Miami should be #2
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 17:48:52 GMT
Reply-To: dhead@comanche.ess.harris.com
Organization: Harris Corporation, Government Aerospace Systems Division

In article f392hnd@rpi.edu, kollur@jec321.its.rpi.edu (Ramana Kolluri) writes:
>This year we have an undisputed national champion in Alabama (Roll Tide!)
>I kinda miss all those arguements about Colorado/Georgia Tech and
>Miami/Washington from previous years. 
> So how about #2. Don't you all feel that Miami deserves to be #2 ahead
>of a Florida State team that they beat. Things would be perfect then.
>Undefeated Alabama #1
>one loss Miami     #2 (only loss to #1)
>one loss FSU       #3 (only loss to #2)
>
>The polls robbed Miami of a #2 ranking that they earned by beating FSU.
>
>Ramana
>Roll Tide!
>


Look dear, why can't you just be happy for your #1 Tide and leave the rest of the
rankings alone!  FSU's lone loss was by 3 points to the then #2 team (Miami) while
Miami's lone loss was by a gazillion to the then #2 team (Alabama).  Quality of
win or loss does come into play; Miami was chewing their fingernails hoping FSU
wouldn't hit that field goal while Alabama was celebrating at halftime.  FSU
deserves #2.  Period.

D. Head