From: bzs@ussr.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: Private vs. public education
Organization: The World
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 21:57:59 GMT


From: murph@buscard.fidonet.org (Brian Murphy) [responding to me]
>> Hey, look, I understand how dwindling congregations have put a strap
>> on religious coffers. But please don't try to weasel an argument which
>> takes education dollars out of the tax funds to make up the
>> difference.
>
>What's the problem with that?  After all, there'll be less students to teach
>thereby costing less money.  They'll still be getting their average $5,000 per
>student for each student they're teaching.

Well, at least we reveal your hidden agenda: To bolster dwindling
church contributions with tax dollars.

What's the problem with that? It's subsidizing religion, that's the
problem with that, and I'm agin' it.

One question is: Will these private schools feel obligated to accept
problematic students (handicaps, behavioral, etc.)?

If not then all they're doing is skimming the cream and will stick
whatever is left of the public school system with the highest cost
students.

The real problem with all this is that it's just the shopping mall
mentality brought to every problem. Not everything in life can be like
that.

>By the way, I find it passing strange that private schools do a better job
>BY FAR with MUCH less money than what the public schools spend.  It kind of
>shows you that money is not the real answer; the real answer is HOW that money
>is spent.  Another large part is the discipline demanded from a student in a
>private institution.

And another large part is their ability to avoid students that don't
do well or would cost money and dump them on the public school system.

See, the public school system, by and large, has to take them in if
they live in the school district (oh, there are some extremes such as
profoundly disabled for which there are other programs.)

Not so with private schools, they just create some sort of admissions
standard and don't let in students which may drag down their averages.

So of course their averages would be higher and at lower cost.

>Wrong.  You just like that large government, huh?  Government has to oversee
>everything in your mind.  Consider that the paying customers can readily judge
>whether their money is buying the kind of education they expect.  If they
>don't like the product, they can shop elsewhere, thank you.  No big deal.

I think that inasmuch as you see the govt as being completely alien to
you rather than something you participate in then yes, there is a
problem.

But notice the shopping mall mentality to life that I predicted
earlier.

>> If parents can't be bothered to be involved in their kids' education
>> handing it all over to a zillion religious denominations won't fix
>> things. It will make things worse.
>
>You can't just say that without backing it up.

Why not? I just did!

> How do you know that handing
>education over to a "zillion religious denominations" will make things worse?

I don't have to stick my head into a meat grinder to figure out it
ain't a good idea.

I do not trust religious organizations, less than I trust govt.

You've already admitted that what you're really after is not education
per se, tho it's clearly a desireable side effect (at least for your
own kid), but that this is really all a ploy to subsidize your
favorite religion.

I'm agin it.

>What, will it make it worse than what we have now; soaring drop-out rates,
>illiterate children being promoted to the next grade without a grasp of the
>previous grade, and ever increasing school budgets?  All this under what we
>have now.

Taking the money to build solid gold temples.

>Change.  Everyone wants change.  LET'S MAKE _THIS_ CHANGE!

Why don't you just kill yourself, that would be a change. Or is there
some value to making a change in the right decision?
--
        -Barry Shein

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