From: wiener@duke.cs.duke.edu (Edward Wiener)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Cut the crap, Jarmo
Date: 14 Sep 92 19:23:54 GMT
Organization: Duke University Computer Science Dept.; Durham, N.C.


: 
:   We have different understanding about "double standards",
: dear Jarmo. Western politicans were tearing apart their throats
: when shouting about human rights violations in East European
: communist countries, while now when much worse human rights
: violations are going on in "independent" and supposely
: "democratic" Baltic countries, they shut up their mouths.
: Meanwhile in Estonia the situation with civil rights could
: be compared only with Germany'33-45. I can list several
: "actions" of Estonian regime, unprecendental in its nature:
: 1. Estonian parlament by majority of votes deprived
: Russian-speaking deputies their mandates exclusively because
: of their non-Estonian ethnicity. And it was done by Estonian
: deputies who were elected on the very same elections with those
: non-Estonian deputies. THIS IS FASCISM.

>Bullshit, you have no idea what is going on in Estonia.
>Read their constitution and estonian history&sovietizatization
>history of Estonia so you may undestand.


      You're completely avoiding the question of present-day
      violations of fundamental human rights by the Estonian
      Government and hiding behind the veil of Estonian history
      & Sovietization.  You apparently have nothing to say on
      the subject, so why not blabber away about family values?

3. Estonian goverment has deprived de-facto non-Estonians
: the electorial rights. THIS IS FASCISM.
: 4. Estonian goverment has sent additional police troops
: to Narva region to suppress Russians there and prevent the
: population of Narva region to hold the referendum on independence.
: Even Soviet regime didn't prevent Balts from holding their
: referendum on independence. THIS IS FASCISM.
: 5. Estonian regime is posing the territorial claims to
: Russia's Pskov region and even was engaged in direct 
: agression in May-June. THIS IS FASCISM.
: 

>Bullshit. You have no idea what is going on in Estonia.
>I would like to mention that last statue of Lenin on the estonian
>ground is in NARVA. So about russo-estonians and their innocent
>immigration to Estonia.. 


      Big f***ing deal, Jarmo.  So they've left a statue
      of Lenin untouched?  And what of it?  At least Lenin's
      government recognized the independence of Estonia, despite
      the fact the Yudenich used it as a base of operations against
      Petrograd during the Russian Civil War.  And think about
      what you're implying anyway!  Even if every single Russian
      in Estonia is a Communist, which is highly improbable, you
      seem to insinuate that they should be deported to Russia
      on the basis of their political beliefs!?  With supporters
      like you, Democracy needs no detractors.

:   Even "not-so-democratic" Uzbekistan and Azerbajdzhan
: didn't do such things.
:   Estonia IS a FASCIST STATE. And please, please, don't
: bother youself by posting articles from  Estonian "constitution".
: It is well-known fact that Stalin's constitution in xUSSR was
: also quite democratic from the first glance.
:   Serega & Co

>You Serega is still a long way to go to understand what is nordic
>democracy.



      No, he's assimilated your notions of democracy
      quite well.  BTW, do YOU really believe your own words
      when you refer to Estonia as a "nordic democracy?"


-- Eduard Wiener