HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: obrien@netcom.com (Robert O'Brien)
Subject: What to rename "clipless" pedals?
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 92 01:56:08 GMT
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Summary: How about "step-in"?

In article <9208222149.AA16927@hplomg.hpl.hp.com> Jobst  writes:
>
>I find it curious, however, that the bicycle industry has not found a
>name for pedals that engage a cleat without straps and toeclips.  You
>may recall that Cinelli was the first to widely market such a pedal.
>Clipless pedals are not necessarily Look, Time or SPD but include also
>rubber tread pedals for street shoes.  I expect clips and straps to
>become so rare that their absence will not define anything.  Bicyclists
>wont know to what the term refers.  By that time I hope we will have a
>descriptive term.  Or should I say, hopefully?
>
Jobst, I am *hopeful* that you used that non-word for humor value.  But
that is part of 'common usage' and it is how our language evolves, or in
this case, deteriorates (IMO).  And, before "hopefully" becomes an accepted
word, perhaps we of the net can accomplish what you suggest.

For my $0.02, I think "step-in" fits pretty well, and I believe it is
still used to describe (downhill) ski bindings, though I doubt the other types
are in use very much any more.

	obrien@netcom.com	(Oh!  It's ... YOU, Bob!)
From: leons@hiroller.Eng.Sun.COM ()
Newsgroups: sun.rec,sun.bike,rec.bicycles
Subject: Places for bicycling in the Bay Area
Date: 12 Aug 1992 20:52:25 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems - 3D Technology Group - Mountain View, CA
Distribution: ba
Reply-To: leons@hiroller.Eng.Sun.COM ()
NNTP-Posting-Host: hiroller

I am looking for a nice place to do recreational-style bicycling 
somewhere in the South Bay area, although I'd like to know about
other Bay Area places as well.  The criteria for these places are
(in the order of importance):

1.  No steep upgrades and downgrades (yes I am a lazy bum)

2.  No or very little auto traffic

3.  Nice scenery


Let me know about your favorite places to bike!
Please reply to me directly, as I don't regularly read these newsgroups.

Thanks!


=============================================================================
= Leon A. Shirman                                       3D Technology Group =
= Sun Microsystems, Inc	    	    	    	    	 Mailstop MTV23-205 =
= 2550 Garcia Avenue                               Mountain View, CA  94530 =
= Leon.Shirman@Eng.Sun.COM    	    	    	    	     (415) 336-5439 =
=============================================================================
From: sfleming@cs.hw.ac.uk (Stewart Fleming)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Tour of Britain - Stage 3 Results
Date: 14 Aug 92 07:53:50 GMT
Reply-To: sfleming@cs.hw.ac.uk
Organization: Computer Science Dept, Heriot-Watt University, Edinburgh


Greg LeMond pulled out of the Tour of Britain before the start
of stage 2, complaining of a sleepless night after stomach upsets.
Max Sciandri holds the lead after a nifty wheel change.  Stage 2
(Middlesborough - Humberside) contained 2 2nd cat climbs and 1 1st cat
in the first 30 miles.)  Sciandri chose low gearing for the first half
of the stage, then switched to gears more suited to sprinting for the 2nd
half.  Who said you don't need more than 6 gears on a bicycle ?

A promsing attack was defeated by a problem with the race routing.
The motorcycle escort went straight on at a junction,
a marshal shouted "left" and pointed right.  Half the group went left
and half went right.  A severe loss of rhythm was experienced :-)

LeMond is now doubtful for the Wincanton Classic, which begins in Leeds
2 days after the finish of the Tour of Britain (August 16th)

Stage 3 Results
Middlesborough-Hull 166km (103 miles)

1. D. Abduzhaparov (Carrera, CIS) 4:36:41
2. J. Museeeuw (Lotto, Bel)
3. O. Ludwig (Panasonic, Ger)
4. M.Sciandri (Motorola, It)
5. P. Anderson (Motorola, Aus)
6. A van der Poel (Tulip, Neth) all same time

44. S. Yates (Motorola, GB)
51. R. Millar (TVM, GB) same time

Overall

1. Sciandri 12:16:40
2. van Aert +5 sec
3. van der Poel +9 sec
4. H. Redant (Lotto, Bel) +10 sec
5. Museeuw +14 sec
6. Ludwig same time

7. Anderson +19 sec
18. Yates same time
21. Millar same time

STF
--
sfleming@cs.hw.ac.uk                        ...ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!sfleming
"He not only moved the goalposts, he dug up the pitch
   and took the ball home as well."
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: byer@adobe.com (Scott Byer)
Subject: Re: Gas subsidies and taxes (was Re: Bicycle Paths
Reply-To: byer@adobe.com (Scott Byer)
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 22:46:35 GMT

Matthew J. Harper writes

>>>I don't want the automobile killed.  I love driving my
>>>sports car.  But I don't think othe people should pay
>>>for my milage - I should.  Stealing money from those who
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>use public transportation or ride bicycles to pay for
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>the roads I use is not an appropriate solution to road
>>>construction and maintenance.
> 
> What about the converse?

Actually, Tom didn't write that, I did.  And yes, the
converse should be stopped.  Bridge tolls should cover
the costs of the bridge.  Of course, with the costs of
driving an automobile so hidden, without the current
subsidization public transit would fade away.  Do two
wrongs make a right? :-)

Scott Byer                                   NeXTMail: byer@adobe.com
Adobe Systems Incorporated               These are *my* opinions, and  
1585 Charleston Road, P.O. Box 7900        do not necessarily reflect
Mountain View, CA 94039-7900             the opinions of my employer.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
From: byer@adobe.com (Scott Byer)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Descending hills
Date: 13 Aug 92 16:24:41 GMT
Reply-To: byer@adobe.com (Scott Byer)
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated

Scott Seligman writes

> Time for the "which brake" thread, I guess.  You should
> avoid the front brake only when conditions are such that
> using it would cause your front wheel to skid.  On the
> road this shouldn't happen unless you've made a mistake
> (you're going too fast, didn't see that slick patch,
> etc.)

Ah, but if the hill is steep, your center of gravity is
closer to being over the front axle, and with a
corresponding reduction in the amount of force required
to pitch the bike.  No, the front tire shouldn't skid -
you would be over the front wheel long before that.  So,
while both brakes should be used, the front one must be
used fairly cautiously.  (And, yes, I misspoke about
'only the rear brake'.  Foot in mouth disease. :-)

'Required' meant 'to keep your desired speed without
riding the brakes'.  Nothing insane, really.

Scott Byer                                   NeXTMail: byer@adobe.com
Adobe Systems Incorporated               These are *my* opinions, and  
1585 Charleston Road, P.O. Box 7900        do not necessarily reflect
Mountain View, CA 94039-7900             the opinions of my employer.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Howard.Gerber@f88.n106.z1.fidonet.org (Howard Gerber)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Tandem drivetrain misbeh
Date: 14 Aug 92 14:14:08 GMT


 On 08-12-92 Carl P Baker wrote to All... 
 
 CP> It is a _very_ good idea to use anti-sieze compound on the 
 CP> freewheel threads 
 
 Instead of anti-sieze compound, I use teflon tape. It's a lot  
 less messy and works just as well. Teflon tape is also good 
 stuff to use on pedal threads. 
 
 
... OFFLINE 1.36 * I'm pedaling as fast as I can... 

 * Origin: Two Wheelers - The Bicylists' Communications Link (1:106/88)
From: sutton@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Rich Sutton)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Re: All that fat
Date: 22 Aug 92 14:56:14 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523

In article <z=+n=r.tomk@netcom.com> tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich) writes:
>Looking at the calory counter in the latest Bicycling! I note
>that they claim that a Tour de France rider uses some 6,000
>calories per day. I think that you can only recover some
>30% of the calories eaten so that means that you have to eat
>some 20,000 calories.
>
>Even if you are 50% efficient I would like to see you get that
>many calories inside without eating _lots_ of fat. You just
>don't have a big enough or fast enough digestive track unless
>you are part Hippo. :-)

Davis Phinney and Connie Carpenter would disagree with you. 
The following is from "Training for Cycling", by Phinney & Carpenter, 
p 215:

	A Day in the Life of a Tour de France Rider

		{sample day's meals omitted}

		Calories: over 7,000 a day
			  70 to 75 percent from carbohydrates
			  10 percent protein
			  15 to 20 percent fat

So we have a contradiction between your 30% digestion efficiency
and Phinney & Carpenter's calorie breakdown. I'm inclined to
believe their numbers.

-Rich
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: kol@hal.nta.no (Karl Olav Lillevold FST Student)
Subject: Summary: Dura-Ace STI: less than perfect?
Organization: Norwegian Telecom Research
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 07:17:11 GMT

A couple of weeks ago I asked for help on the following problem:
>I recently installed Dura-Ace STI components on my Eddy Merckx frame.
>I find adjusting the derailleur diffucult. When I do like the
>instructions say to adjust the cable tension until the chain makes
>noise against cog no. 6, and then a little bit back, the shifting works
>very smoothly upwards towards larger cogs, but when shifting towards smaller
>cogs, the derailleur doesn't move far enough. To make the shifting
>work, I have make the adjustment so that the shifting is 
>NOT as smooth as it should be neither upwards nor downwards.

>I have greased the cables well and I use the plastic guide supplied
>with the group under the bottom bracket, so the cables should run
>smoothly enough.

I got a few answers, but I'm afraid none of the advice worked very well.
The advice can be summarized as follows:

* Adjust the spring tension on the underside of the rear derailleur
     - No change

* Too much friction in the sealed cable housing
     - No change

* Check the alignment of the derailleur hanger
     - This is the only thing I haven't tried yet, but I will
       as soon as I manage to borrow the right tool.

* Do I use the Dura-Ace Hyperglide chain? -YES.

* Do I use the Shimano 8-speed HG cassette? -YES

* It will get better when the cables are stretched
     - I have had the equipment the whole summer, and it is
       only getting worse.

* The cable is fastened on the wrong side of the clamp on the
  rear derailleur.  -NO

* The high stop not allowing the the pulley cage to move away from
  the frame enough.   - No change.

I don't know what to do now (after I have checked the alignment of
the derailleur hanger), except return the parts that could be
malfunctioning to service.


 Karl Olav Lillevold                email: kol@hal.nta.no
 Student Norwegian Institute of Technology  (electronics)
 Diploma at Norwegian Telecom Research (image processing)
     
  
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: mjohnsto@jenny.shearson.com (Mike Johnston)
Subject: Lemond drops out of Tour of Britain (was: Greg Lemond retires?)
Organization: Lehman Brothers
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 15:28:59 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.224905.20881@raid.dell.com> jrh@mustang.dell.com (Randy Howard) writes:

   I heard on the radio today that Lemond announced he is 'dropping out of the
   pro tour' because he is 'not feeling well'.  Not sure if this is a permanent
   thing, or just for this year.  Anyone know more about this?


From this morning's New York Times (Entered without permission):

	LeMond Pulls Out of Race (Reuters)

	Greg LeMond of the United States pulled out of
	the Tour of Britain before the start of the third
	stage of racing in Middlesborough, England.

	Serge Beucherie of France, his team manager,
	said: "Greg had a sleepless night. He complains 
	of having no energy and throughout the race yesterday 
	was not feeling well."

	LeMond, a three-time winner of the Tour de 
	France, quit the French race this year complain-
	ing of being "totally fatigued."

	LeMond made the British race his comeback
	race with the intention of preparing for the world
	road race championship in Benidorm, Spain, on
	Sept. 6.
--
Michael R. Johnston/System Administrator                mjohnsto@shearson.com  
  =-=-=  The official .signature of the 1992 Barcelona Olympics. =-=-=
From: n9110338@henson.cc.wwu.edu (dan jordan)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Aluminum's Lifespan
Date: 13 Aug 92 03:38:52 GMT
Article-I.D.: henson.1992Aug13.033852.24416
Organization: Western Washington University


  of course Cessna has been around for awhile, and they made Aluminum planes
quite awhile ago.... just how easy is a c-140's life anyway?
  (or any other early model aluminum plane)

my point is that the DC-3 is not the only old aluminum plane and some other
planes are as old with-out the ad-infinity re-enforcement.
From: rgo@druhi.att.com (Ron Olsen)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: bar-end shifters
Date: 20 Aug 92 00:50:42 GMT
Reply-To: r.g.olsen@att.com
Organization: AT&T Bell Labs, Denver CO

|> I guy on my team uses a bar end shifter for the rear.  A few other guys
|> I train with also have this setup.  It would certainly make sense 
|> in Illinois where 90% of races are criteriums.  Does anyone else here
|> use them?  I've been thinking about getting them.  
|> Also, what's the likelihood that I could get just the shifter for the rear?

	I recently put Shimano 600 Ultegra bar-end shifters on my road
	bike, replacing Shimano 105 down-tube shifters.
	I got them at Excel for $45.  They came as a set,
	complete with down-tube cable stops, cable housing, and
	derailleur cables.  I don't think you'd be able to get
	just the rear barcon shifter unless you found a used
	one somewhere.  They are available in 6/7 or 8-speed versions.
	The Ultegra barcons are compatible with Ultegra and 105, but
	not Dura Ace; there is a separate 8-speed Dura Ace barcon.

	I don't race, I just ride for fun.
	I really prefer the barcons over the down-tube shifters. 
	I can shift more quickly and comfortably
	with less body movement.  I have a triple crank
	with half-step plus granny gearing on my bike,
	so I use both shifters quite often.
	I used them on a recent 9-day bike tour in southern Utah
	and was very pleased with them, especially in rolling hills
	where I was shifting a lot.

	They may not be as nifty as STI, but they
	certainly are a lot cheaper!

	Ron Olsen
	Boulder, Colorado
	r.g.olsen@att.com
From: DEBbliss@lbl.gov (David E. Bliss)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Chain Suck on Mt Bike
Date: 15 Aug 92 18:17:50 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory
NNTP-Posting-Host: 131.243.160.71

In article <1992Aug14.181130.4340@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> 
mprime@zinc.Berkeley.EDU (Mike  Prime) writes:
> My new bike (Specialized Stumpjumper Comp - Deore XT, Specialized crank
> and chainrings, Shimano hyperglide chain) has chain suck. What I mean by
> chain suck is that when I shift, under load, to the smallest chainring
> the chain gets "stuck" to the chainring and is "sucked" up to inbetween
> the chainrings and the chainstay. I already scraped up that area pretty
> good on my first ride.
> 
> What can I do?

Howdy mike,

I've had this problem too and found it was do to the chainring bolts.  
They stuck out just a smidgin' of a mm past the surface of the chain ring 
and were very effective at catching the chain.  The sharp corners of the 
hyperglide style chains make it hook up very effective on any protrusions, 
be they intended or not.  (very annoying during races!) Check the chain 
ring bolts.  I couldn't find shorter replacement bolts so a mill bastard 
and a little elbow grease was the only solution.  It worked too.  Maybe 
one of these days I'll be able to do a little off road with you.

later,

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ "just a little bit harder, |   "The Wheel"   +
+  just a little bit more,   |                 +
+  just a little bit further |   Jerry Garcia  +
+  than you've gone before." |                 +  
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 David E. Bliss            phone: (510) 486-4555             
 Cal Cycling, UC Berkeley    fax: (510) 486-5530
From: tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Gas subsidies and taxes (was Re: Bicycle Paths
Date: 17 Aug 92 19:29:02 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

I see that the "Kill the Automobile" thread is starting again.

I'm certainly not wild about cars, but this society won't operate
without them. And people who suggest draconian methods to end private
automobile use are probably those who also suggest communism,
forced labor camps for 'non-believers' and scraping the Constitution
because it wasn't written in today's english.

I have tried for 25 years to get a job within a couple of miles
of where I live. Except for one 2 year stint I have been unable to
do so and the Silicon Valley employees live _very_ much further
from where they work than my average.

It is my assumption from visiting and/or working in many major cities
that this is the norm, not the exception whereever large cities are
concerned. In New York City I had the impression that as soon as
you could afford it you moved into the suburbs or out on LI. Even in
Connecticutt I discovered that people lived more than 10 miles
from where they worked. Houston was much worse and even Youngstown,
OH, seemed as if people wanted to build industrial areas far away
from residential areas.

Oakland, CA, had residential and industrial
areas in close proximity and the town has essentially died due
to manipulation of the tax and regulation base to "encourage" social
programs. If this is what you want for your job, enjoy!

So those who discuss taxation to encourage social reforms will then
be encouraging serious criminal laws to force companies and then
individuals to toe the 'right' philosophical line. History is
a great teacher, but only to those willing to learn.
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: harry@cv.hp.com (Harry Phinney)
Subject: Re: ULTRA marathon cycling
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 00:29:53 GMT

tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich) writes:
: Harry, try this: wait for a day when the wind is blowing about
: 30 mph or more.

It'll be a long wait.  We simply don't get steady 30 mph winds here.  If
the winds are that high they are invariably quite gusty with variable
direction.

: I'm sure that you could get considerable power out of a 100 mph
: wind or even a 60 mph wind. But how much that is is probably still
: pretty small compared to the rolling resistance at 150 mph.

The rolling resistance, in terms of force (e.g.  lbf, newtons) is
approximately constant versus speed.  It does not increase much
(if any) between 1 mph and 150 mph.  Tim Smith corrected my last posting
via email, pointing out that the _force_ (not power) from the wind
increases by the square of the wind speed.  This results in a linear
increase in rolling resistance power consumption, and a cubic increase
in the power supplied by the "backflow" wind.

: Remember, even though the recirculating flow may have a fairly
: large percentage of the external airstream (did the guy say 25%?)
: you would still have to couple it to the bicycle and a rider isn't
: exactly a perfect drag body.

Yes, Mark Drela said that a particular body shape showed a backflow
velocity of 25% the freestream velocity.  He also said the following:

     <Mark Drela's words follow>

     If John Howard used this shape for his pace car, he would
     have felt a 38 mph tailwind at the "sweet spot".  Assuming a drag
     area of 3.5 ft^2 (from Bicycling Science), this translates to a
     forward push of about 13 lb.  This is maybe 5x more than is needed
     to overcome the rolling resistance of the small fat tires he used.

You appear to agree with his assertion of a 25% backflow velocity, so
with which part of his analysis do you disagree?  Jobst has stated that
small diameter (20") tires on pavement have a rolling resistance force
under 1 pound.  While Howard's motorcycle tires on salt surely had
greater resistance, I doubt it was more than 13 times that of bicycle
slicks on pavement.  This means that the rolling resistance and backflow
wind combined result in a net _forward_ force on the rider.  In the
absence of a braking force (e.g.  the rider back pedaling against a
fixed gear), the bike and rider will accelerate.

To look at it another way, if Mark's estimate of a forward force of 13
lb is close, this results in:

(150 miles/hr)(5280 ft/mile)(1/60 hr/min) = 16,200 ft/min

(16,200 ft/min)(13 lb) = 172,000 ft*lb/min = 5.2 hp

So the wind supplies about 5 horsepower to the bike/rider combination.
Conversely, if we (very generously, I believe) assume John cranked out
5 hp, we get a tire/ground force of around 1 pound at 150 mph.  That's
enough to overcome the rolling resistance of bicycle slicks on pavement,
but likely not enough to overcome the rolling resistance of his
motorcycle tires on salt.

Harry Phinney   harry@hp-pcd.cv.hp.com
Organization: Junior, English, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 15:24:19 -0400 
From: Donald Jackson Pickett <dp32+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Specialized '93 News
Distribution: world


More MTB rumors and news:

Specialized is selling a fully suspended bike for '93, priced around
$2500. It was described to me as an M2 with a pivoting rear triangle; I
assume that the pivot is at the chainstays, with a shock at the
seatstay/seattube junction. Futureshock up front. 

I also heard that Klein is working an a fully suspended bike. More as I hear. 

Don
---
dp32@andrew.cmu.edu                     Gregory Peck/Hunter Thompson in '92. 
"We have bad news for you - Hell just froze over."
         - excerpt of a recent letter from home. 


Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: dick@ncs.com
Subject: What cold weather bike shoe?
Organization: National Computer Systems, Inc.
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 14:49:49 GMT

I have been keeping my eyes open for a good cold weather
bike shoe, but I haven't seen one yet.  Does anyone out
in NetWorld know of one?

I need something to keep my feet warm when riding in the
winter.  Around here (Minnesota) we don't get much snow,
but it does gets cold in the winter.

For the last few years, I have used booties, but they are
only good to maybe 15 degrees F.  I need something warmer.
I've tried two pairs of booties and/or several layers of 
socks(including polypro), but that only cuts off circulation 
and makes my feet colder. 

I've heard that a lot of the heat loss is conducted through
the base of the shoe and out the cleat into the metal in 
the pedals.  

Is there a decent winter shoe?

-- 
Dick Anderson
Minneapolis
From: kjm@sactoh0.sac.ca.us (Kevin J. Metcalfe)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Kellogg's Tour of Britain - Stage 1 Result
Summary: Geeks
Date: 12 Aug 92 05:38:02 GMT
Organization: Sacramento Public Access Unix

In article <1992Aug11.132131.18122@cs.hw.ac.uk>, sfleming@cs.hw.ac.uk
(Stewart Fleming) writes:
> 
> [Competition: suggest a name for people who go round the race area
> wearing the full team rig-out, but who are not pro cyclists ?]
> 
How about... geeks, nerds, posers, wannabe's, losers, people without a
clue.  That's all I can come up with on short notice.
 
-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Kevin Metcalfe      Work:   Metcalfeke%allin1.dnet@c3p0.sm-alc.af.mil |
|                      Home:   kjm@sactoh0.sac.ca.us                     |
|  Something witty goes here.                                            |
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: dick@ncs.com
Subject: Re: Drillium
Organization: National Computer Systems, Inc.
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 14:17:54 GMT


I'm sure most people know this, but I will say it anyway.

Don't drill out your water bottles.

-- 
Dick Anderson
Minneapolis