HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: twolf@cs.utah.edu (Tom Wolf)
Subject: Re: Diku II, is it better than the state of the Art Diku?
Date: 15 Sep 92 14:05:10 MDT
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept

In article <MJB.92Sep15164457@oak7.doc.ic.ac.uk> mjb@doc.ic.ac.uk (Matthew J Brown) writes:
>In article <1992Sep14.201124.10800@midway.uchicago.edu> h309@ellis.uchicago.edu (Unknown Author) writes:
>>Definitely... Diku II is an utter disappointment - sure it has its pluses
>>such as a good law system and individual skills, but overall it is very
>>unappealing.
>
>I'm waiting until the source becomes available before judging Diku II.
>I'm hoping that the internals are a lot better structured and more
>easily extensible - if the core of the game runs better, that's what
>is really important in my view. That is, of course, unless you just
>intend to download source, compile it and put it up as a working MUD.
>That isn't what I'm looking for - I want something solid and
>well-designed. I can add most of the chrome myself.
>

Good point! And one I didn't think of myself. I am not interested in Diku II
as a coding platform, I am looking at it from the player's perspective which
is where my interest lies. I don't even want to download the source, compile
it, and run it. I only want to play it. At this point it time, it definitely
does not compare to the state of the art for playing. It may very well be
better coded and thus have the potential of pleasing the people who go to
the great effort & (in my opinion) sacrifice of actually running a mud.

To all implementors out there, I tip my hat and say thanks! To the DikuII
originators out there, please don't take my comments as reasons to halt
your work. With DikuI being extended as far as it has traveled, I greatly
anticipate how far DikuII can be extended. But please, never forget the
player.


Edone


Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.diku
From: mohrc@jacobs.CS.ORST.EDU ()
Subject: Balstaff
Organization: Computer Science Outreach Services - Oregon State University
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 23:50:10 GMT

Balstaff (yes you know who you are) mail me. Mail to prism is bouncing again
so i need something to reply to.. kinda like we had to do it (4 trys) last
time.

-Deth Boss of Perilous Realms
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.diku
From: mforbes@gmuvax2.gmu.edu (Michael L Forbes)
Subject: Re: Really.  Some good docs for Diku.
Organization: George Mason University, Fairfax, Va.
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 21:17:26 GMT

In article <BuJ6s9.G0G@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> shulick@navajo.ucs.indiana.edu writes:
>
>Once again, I fetched dikusource.tar.Z from ucbvax.berkeley.edu,
>/pub/games/dikumud, and looked through it.  I was unable to find documentatin
>on how to manage the MUD via being a god.  I couldn't find any docs on how to
>change players' stats, locations, or anything.  "wizhelp" displayed some
>commands, but when I used "help" on these commands, only 2 or 3 actually had a
>help file.  COuld someone PLEASE direct me to a better Diku archive that
>actually has decent documentation?
>
 well, that's because basic dikusource doesn't come with such an ability 
for gods.... if you'll notice, there is also no such spell as infravision,
hardly anything for a map (thank god), and there is no in-game-creation....
best thing to do is get a copy of a working mud, like Abaddon's stripped
down version of his (Adversary), or the Copper code someone else suggested
from UCBVAX>.BERKELEY.EDDU (bleah! this keyboard sux!)
that should read ucbvax.berkeley.edu
good luck!
-danc

Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.diku
From: andyb@cs.washington.edu (Andrew Biddle)
Subject: Diku Source
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering Dept., Univ. of Washington, Seattle
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 08:21:59 GMT


Hi there,
	Anyone out there have better than standard diku source available?
Specifically I am looking for source with multiclass stuff and as many
other improvements over the original code as possible.  Any information
where I can track down decent code would be very appriciated.

Thanks,
Andy

	

Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.diku
From: hamrick@milton.u.washington.edu (Mike Hamrick)
Subject: Re: Diku Source
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 03:22:24 GMT

Jackie F. Russell writes:

>I know where some excellent code can be found. IN fact...
>
>SneezyMUD needs a new site!!!!! SneezyMUD with color capabilities, many users
>, a very stable coding system, (few crashes), and a great bunch of players
>and gods needs a new site. Anyone interested in helping run this great mud
>please respond to me via email. Anyone who has a site and any amount of coding abilities, can help in the coding of the mud if wanted.
>
>Please don't let this great mud sit in an account and do nothing.

So, if this is such great code why don't you put it up on a FTP site
somewhere?

mikeh
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.diku
From: boserj@netcom.com (Jeffrey Boser)
Subject: Re: Really.  Some good docs for Diku.
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 00:51:05 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

shulick@navajo.ucs.indiana.edu writes:
>Once again, I fetched dikusource.tar.Z from ucbvax.berkeley.edu,
>/pub/games/dikumud, and looked through it.  I was unable to find documentatin
>on how to manage the MUD via being a god.  I couldn't find any docs on how to
>change players' stats, locations, or anything.  "wizhelp" displayed some
>commands, but when I used "help" on these commands, only 2 or 3 actually had a
>help file.  COuld someone PLEASE direct me to a better Diku archive that
>actually has decent documentation?

<sigh>  You didnt look hard enough.  Its all there, in dm-dist/doc
so look closer next time.

And since you keep saying things like commands help and wizhelp, it is
obvious you didnt understand me when I said that such things are done
OFFLINE in a diku.  With a texteditor.  There are no such documentation
available from within the game for a very simple reason:  you cant
use it from within the game.

Diku is one of the best documented muds in existance.

....jeff

Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.diku
From: rwhelan@gmuvax2.gmu.edu (Ryan A. Whelan)
Subject: Re: Really.  Some good docs for Diku.
Organization: George Mason University, Fairfax, Va.
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 21:06:48 GMT

In article <87xntv#.boserj@netcom.com> boserj@netcom.com (Jeffrey Boser) writes:

>Diku is one of the best documented muds in existance.
>
>....jeff

It is?  I read all the online help and all the dm-dist/doc.  I hae played with
the diku code and even worked on creating a few new areas.  *sigh*
but I think it is sad if it is the best (or even close)

I really couldn't compare it with other muds, but if it is the best, there are
really some bright people working on the other muds. People who need no 
documentation what so ever.



-- 
Ryan A. Whelan                                rwhelan@gmuvax2.gmu.edu
From: fsgaw1@acad3.alaska.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.diku
Subject: Is this the Demise of Covert!
Date: 14 Sep 92 16:52:45 GMT
Organization: University of Alaska Fairbanks


	Shortly after its inception, CovertMud seems to have died. I have
been unable to reach it for five days now. Why?
                                   ----------|
From: adol@heroes.UUCP (Adol Christain)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.diku
Subject: Wondering
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 92 11:35:53 CDT
Organization: The Inn Of Heroes.  Public Access UUCP BBS.

     Can someone mail me a list of Diku's with ability to kill PCs?  I am 
really disapointed to get on a mud ready for some combat and it is 
disabled.  Also, I was wondering why there aren't modifiers for 
race/class.  (Ie you get no advantage being an elf theif or human theif)  
If anyone that runs a mud would look at the Moria source, that's how it 
should be done (class/race).  

     Oh well, the list would be appreciated.



   --Adol
From: bairds@rigel.cs.pdx.edu (Wraith)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.diku
Subject: Re: Creation privs for mortals
Keywords: creation armageddon
Date: 9 Sep 92 00:56:16 GMT
Article-I.D.: pdxgate.6080

Although I agree that letting mortals have some sort of access to specialty
items would be nice, I don't think allowing them creation priveledges is the
way to go.  This ruins much of the atmosphere of the game and allows players
to create things that look like virtually anything.  (i.e., by using what you
had in your post I could make fake sacrificial daggers or whatever other items
happened to be available and then sell them, etc.)
     What I would suggest, instead, is a line of specialty shops where the
player can go to purchase items.  I might, for example, commision a jeweler to
craft a ring of white gold with an inscription for me.  Or perhaps I'd go to
the local clothing shop and order a black cloak with gold trim.
     This is a good excuse for players to spend some of that over abundant
gold as well as a good excuse to expand towns without making them boring.  Why
wander around in that 10 AC Dwarven helmet when you can wear a black fedora?
Why put on that +1 to hit silver ring when you can have a gold ring with an
Onyx stone and a personalized inscription.
     It could be that mortals wouldn't find the interest of owning
personalized items valuable enough to give up their better items.  Being able
to always tell which is the better item is a fundamental flaw in Diku, I
think.  If players had less idea of what was better than what they might opt
for more style and flair and less uniformity.

| bairds@rigel.cs.pdx.edu | "The bomb lives only as it is falling." from      |
| o--[=====- % @>-^-v---- | _Use of Weapons_ by Iain M. Banks                 |
From: dwelling@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (bears...ditka..bears)
Subject: new
Summary: new user
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 22:49:38 GMT
Keywords: new

	Does anyone have any helpfull hints for new users of MUD? I always
	lose everything I own when I quit for some reason.

Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.diku
From: boserj@netcom.com (Jeffrey Boser)
Subject: Re: Want to run a Diku, but the stuff is messy
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 03:25:59 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

brumleve@gauss (Dan Brumleve) writes:
>boserj@netcom.com (Jeffrey Boser) writes:
>>and added to.  You will not find one of them publicly. (why should they
>>release all the work they have done)
>
>     Well, a good deal of my online creation code is available (though it may
>take some work setting up).  I *did* however fix up oset.c to be compatible
>for the most part with generic Diku (it's available from ucbvax).  There's
>also some other stuff I've written sitting around on atropa.stat.uiuc.edu
>in pub/Armageddon.

sorry.  you are right, there are alot of extra coders who have made
public some of their mods.   Some of them are helpful, and I have used
yours, dan, when i was didling with dikus.  But again, for the most
part, the diku's out there initially are all offline creation oriented.
And installing even your mods requires work.  So either way, to do
what he wants and to diddle from inside, will require him to mess with
the diku code.

But again, most of the major modifications (like some of the complete
rewrites) are not public at all..  if you want a new combat system,
you will pretty much have to write it yourself.  New database methods?
same thing.

the nice thing about diku is that its really easy to get it up and
running, it compiles nicely, and if you know c you can modify it
without bending over backwards.


....jeff

Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.diku
From: rlt20429@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Robert L. Thomas)
Subject: Re: MUD review: Apocalypse II
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 22:49:13 GMT

You will find pain in the ass gods where ever you play.  It seems to be
the way of it, some people can't handle power.  Also a very neat trick that
gods can do is go invis from mortals, so if they are bugging you you can
just dissapear.  

Robb

Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.diku
From: brumleve@gauss (Dan Brumleve)
Subject: Re: Want to run a Diku, but the stuff is messy
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 01:59:07 GMT

boserj@netcom.com (Jeffrey Boser) writes:

>shulick@navajo.ucs.indiana.edu (Sam Hulick) writes:
>>Ok, that's not a big problem, but the barebones code I got was very barebones.
>>Are there more advanced Diku codes lying around?

>and added to.  You will not find one of them publicly. (why should they
>release all the work they have done)

     Well, a good deal of my online creation code is available (though it may
take some work setting up).  I *did* however fix up oset.c to be compatible
for the most part with generic Diku (it's available from ucbvax).  There's
also some other stuff I've written sitting around on atropa.stat.uiuc.edu
in pub/Armageddon.
From: mforbes@gmuvax2.gmu.edu (Michael L Forbes)
Subject: Re: Want to run a Diku, but the stuff is messy
Organization: George Mason University, Fairfax, Va.
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1992 03:19:44 GMT

In article <BuJpIK.B2C@news.cso.uiuc.edu> brumleve@gauss (Dan Brumleve) writes:
>boserj@netcom.com (Jeffrey Boser) writes:
>
>>shulick@navajo.ucs.indiana.edu (Sam Hulick) writes:
>>>Ok, that's not a big problem, but the barebones code I got was very barebones.
>>>Are there more advanced Diku codes lying around?
>
>>and added to.  You will not find one of them publicly. (why should they
>>release all the work they have done)
>
>     Well, a good deal of my online creation code is available (though it may
>take some work setting up).  I *did* however fix up oset.c to be compatible
>for the most part with generic Diku (it's available from ucbvax).  There's
>also some other stuff I've written sitting around on atropa.stat.uiuc.edu
>in pub/Armageddon.

hmm... dan, is your version full in game programming, or just creation?
what I mean is, can I add verbs, etc in your version, is it strictly
for the rooms/mobs/objs/etc...?
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.diku
From: twolf@cs.utah.edu (Tom Wolf)
Subject: Diku II, is it better than the state of the Art Diku?
Date: 14 Sep 92 14:00:09 MDT
Followup-To: Re: Want to run a Diku, but the stuff is messy
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept

In article <17xn15.boserj@netcom.com> boserj@netcom.com (Jeffrey Boser) writes:
>shulick@navajo.ucs.indiana.edu (Sam Hulick) writes:
>>Ok, that's not a big problem, but the barebones code I got was very barebones.
>>Are there more advanced Diku codes lying around?
>
>Well, Diku][ is supposed to be coming out soon..  but what I saw of
>it didnt impress me.  It looked like some simple enhancements, and
>didnt make the game more playable or workable.
>

I agree with this. I have spent many hours playing the new Diku II and though
it has some good ideas, such as:

	1) A learning system for skills

	2) A learning system for use of each particular weapon


Overall, it is not very playable. The game moves slow, the user interface
does not seem anymore thought out than the original version of diku. Such as:

	1) When fighting a monster, once it is unconscious the fight stops.
		I hate having to type: kill monster, again. The only reason
		I can see for this is to allow a high level player to whip
		a large monster so a newbie can finish the monster off and
		get lots of experience. Seems unfair to me to allow this
		in the first place. And for the 90+% of the time this does
		not occur, results in extra typing for the player.

	2) Exit command no longer shows you the room's exits. You have to
		type the whole word exits. What a pain!!!

	3) A lot of the almost standard diku commands aren't there, such
		as:

		a) Split	- split gold amoung players
		b) Attribute	- shows your ability/ac/stats, often combined
					with score
		c) Where	- shows who is in your zone

	4) To get stuff from corpses requires more typing than in Diku I.
		Instead of: get all corpse  (or g all corpse),
		you need:   get all from corpse (or g all from corpse)

		That additional from is silly and annoying from the player
		point of view.

In summation, of the game systems I have seen that are derived from DIKU,
I think the Silly/Sneezy and Sequent variants are the best still around,
followed by Austin, Darkshadow, Epic, Copper, and then Diku II. Note, I would
place all of the above muds higher in playability than Diku II. Individual
preferences in the muds, depends upon the players. Also, I mention Silly here
to give credit to the originators of the code that Brutius developed into
Sneezy. I definitely do not recommend Silly due to my experience with some of
the gods there.

Edone




		
		
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.diku
From: cwatters@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Coyt D Watters)
Subject: Re: Ansi Color for Diku's???
Keywords: Get Yer ANSI codes here
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 14:47:57 GMT


From the ANSI.SYS information in the MS-DOS 5.0 manual.

ESC[PS;...;PSm

Where PS can be :

0	all attributes off
1	bold on
4	Underscore on
5	blink on
7	reverse video on
8	concealed on

Foreground colors

30	black
31	red
32	green
33	yellow
34	blue
35	magenta
36	cyan
37	white

Background colors

40      black
41     	red
42	green
43	yellow
44	blue
45	magenta
46	cyan
47	white

escape is ascii 27, [ is 91, ;(semi-colon) is 73, m (lowercase m) is 109

These just are prepended to the output, so a blinking, red on yellow, bold
fireball hit would be:

ESC[31;43;5;1mYou are hit by a fireball!

or (ascii up to the text "You are...")

e
s  [   3  1  ;  4  3  ;  5  ;  1  m
c

27 91 51 49 73 52 51 73 53 73 49 109

In DECTALK, the ESC[ is known as CSI.

Looking through my VT420 manual, I see no problems with the ansi escape
sequences and the VT100 codes.

Other codes:

ESC[2J		Wipe Screen (CLS)
ESC[pl;pcH	Position cursor at line (pl) and column (pc)

ANSI terms which can not handle a characteristic are supposed to ignore it,
i.e. a monchrome VT100 just ignores the commands for color.


Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.diku
From: shulick@navajo.ucs.indiana.edu (Sam Hulick)
Subject: Want to run a Diku, but the stuff is messy
Originator: shulick@navajo
Reply-To: shulick@navajo.ucs.indiana.edu
Organization: Vallen Software
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 07:20:48 GMT


I fetched dikusource.tar.Z from ucbvax, compiled it.. and that's it.  I looked
for decent docs on wizard commands and how to manage stuff, but the only help I
could find was "wizhelp" and it wouldn't give me detailed info on wiz commands.
Also, the "set" command didn't even exist (i.e. like on Apocalypse II, wizzes
can 'set' certain stats, etc.)  Next, I tried the Copper code, but
setdtablesize() was undefined, though getdtablesize() wasn't.  Weird.  And this
is on a SPARCstation-2 machine, Sun 4 (or 3, not sure.. but it's a sun.)  So
WHERE can I get GOOD Diku code that will actually explain wizardly concepts:
building rooms, building objects, manipulating objects, players, rooms, etc.
All of it.  Any info would be greatly appreciated, thanks.

-- 
Sam Hulick         \ "The greatest of evils and the worst of crimes is
shulick@indiana.edu \ poverty."  --George Bernard Shaw
(NeXT mail welcome) /
From: khan@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (LAHORI POOND)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.diku
Subject: Re: Will AdvesaryMUD EVER accept new characters?
Date: 11 Sep 92 17:29:37 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center


 Adversay is accepting new characters at the moment. Donot get confused if u  
 cannot talk to anyonw when u get on. That is only meant to stop people
 coming up with stupid names. Once u have entered the game u have to wait for
 wiz to start u. If u have a stupid name u will be rejected. The differnce
 between  a good name and a bad name are given when u log on.

    laters..

  Lahori the Paki.
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.diku
From: Steve.Hyatt@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Steve Hyatt)
Subject: DIKU Mud Mailing List
Summary: Hi Mom 
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service
Distribution: na
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 05:53:10 GMT

Hi all,
  whom do you contact to add yourself to the DIKU mailing list?

Steve Hyatt
Ariakas


--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.diku
From: h309@ellis.uchicago.edu (Unknown Author)
Subject: Re: Diku II, is it better than the state of the Art Diku?
Reply-To: h309@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: Mindcrime
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 20:11:24 GMT

In article <1992Sep14.140009.21046@hellgate.utah.edu> twolf@cs.utah.edu (Tom Wolf) writes:
>
>In summation, of the game systems I have seen that are derived from DIKU,
>I think the Silly/Sneezy and Sequent variants are the best still around,
>followed by Austin, Darkshadow, Epic, Copper, and then Diku II. Note, I would
>place all of the above muds higher in playability than Diku II. Individual
>preferences in the muds, depends upon the players. Also, I mention Silly here
>to give credit to the originators of the code that Brutius developed into
>Sneezy. I definitely do not recommend Silly due to my experience with some of
>the gods there.
>

 Definitely... Diku II is an utter disappointment - sure it has its pluses
such as a good law system and individual skills, but overall it is very
unappealing.

 To see how much you have damaged an oppenent requires a skill!! It's just so
awkward, and also when you first start out, your stats are all below 5!!

 I thought that some of the commands that were used in the original Alfa
Diku were going to be carried over to Diku II, but they weren't - split,
improved who, stats, etc - all are missing :(

 Sure it may be advanced than some dikus out there, but it seems so simplistic
compared to Silly, SequentII, Copper, etc....

 But most of all, it's just slow, bulky and annoying to play - the appeal just
is not there....

-- 
[]=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=[]
|| ~~ The Unknown Author ~~  + //|^|\\ + "Mistrust Authority, Promote  ||
|| h309@midway.uchicago.edu  + <{-o-}> +  Decentralization" - The H.E. ||
[]=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=[]
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.diku
From: boserj@netcom.com (Jeffrey Boser)
Subject: Re: Want to run a Diku, but the stuff is messy
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 92 10:40:39 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

shulick@navajo.ucs.indiana.edu writes:
>I fetched dikusource.tar.Z from ucbvax, compiled it.. and that's it.  I looked
>for decent docs on wizard commands and how to manage stuff, but the only help I
>could find was "wizhelp" and it wouldn't give me detailed info on wiz commands.
>Also, the "set" command didn't even exist (i.e. like on Apocalypse II, wizzes
>can 'set' certain stats, etc.)  Next, I tried the Copper code, but
>setdtablesize() was undefined, though getdtablesize() wasn't.  Weird.  And this
>is on a SPARCstation-2 machine, Sun 4 (or 3, not sure.. but it's a sun.)  So
>WHERE can I get GOOD Diku code that will actually explain wizardly concepts:
>building rooms, building objects, manipulating objects, players, rooms, etc.
>All of it.  Any info would be greatly appreciated, thanks.

The worldbuilding and all that is done off line, and all the docs were
in the package you said you picked up.  Just look through them.

Since diku is hard coded, if you cant read the code you shouldnt be messing
with it.  If you can use C, sit down and dig in..  it will take you a
lot of effort and time before you can start making changes.  To make rooms
and stuff is easy..  thats in the docs, and only requries a text editor.

....jeff

Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.diku