From: muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu (Muffy Barkocy)
Newsgroups: alt.feminism
Subject: Re: flame naming (ataylor's inconsistency)
Date: 11 Sep 92 11:19:15
Organization: Natural Language Incorporated
	<1992Sep9.174716.5158@ils.nwu.edu>
	<MUFFY.92Sep10222247@remarque.berkeley.edu>
	<1992Sep11.160859.13836@ils.nwu.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: remarque.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: lynch@ils.nwu.edu's message of Fri, 11 Sep 1992 16:08:59 GMT

In article <1992Sep11.160859.13836@ils.nwu.edu> lynch@ils.nwu.edu (Richard Lynch) writes:
>In article <MUFFY.92Sep10222247@remarque.berkeley.edu> muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu (Muffy Barkocy) writes:
>>In article <1992Sep9.174716.5158@ils.nwu.edu> lynch@ils.nwu.edu (Richard Lynch) writes:
>>>I've gotten lost as to which messages were faked and whatnot,
>>
>>I think you got lost before that.  I wasn't talking about forged
>>messages (unless ataylor claims that *all* the messages on here from
>>that account were forged, which I do not think is the case).  I was
>>talking about calling Gordon by his last name, Fitch, and me by my first
>>name.

>Uh.  Isn't that what I said?  I got lost as to which messages were faked and
>which were not?  Yes, that is what I said.  And now you are responding to that
>in an argumentative tone.  Why?

Actually, I don't think that my tone was at all argumentative.  I was
under the impression that you had misunderstood me, since you were
talking about forgeries and saying that posts which I signed were from
me.  On rereading it, it seems that the forgeries were irrelevant and
that your point was that you would select randomly either Gordon's first
name or his last name, since his sig contains both.  However, you might
note that my sig similarly contains both and yet you say you would
always say "Muffy" for me, but 50/50 say "Fitch" for Gordon.  In any
case, my question was whether this was a common thing to do (as it seems
to common to call women by their first names and men by their last in
general).

>Sure sounded like it to me...if memory serves me you implied (if not said) that
>this was a case of sexism.

I certainly did not say that it was a case of sexism.  I asked if it was
related to a similar phenomenon which had been discussed on this
newsgroup.

>>Muffy Barkocy | muffy@mica.berkeley.edu | wi.4636@wizvax.methuen.ma.us

>Of course, as soon as I sent off the message I realized that not only would I
>be likely to call you Muffy 'cuz that's your e-mail address and him Gordon or
>Fitch as his is g?c;  I also would be extremely unlikely to address you as
>Barkocy because I wouldn't know how to pronounce it.

>I swear if you call me racist for that (which wouldn't surprise me at this
>point) I'm going to find out how to put a person in a kill file (as opposed to
>a thread).

You seem to have completely pre-judged me, so I'm not sure it makes
sense to comment on what you say.  However, given that I am a white
female of completely European ancestry, it seems quite unlikely to me
that your problem is racism.  Since this is a written medium, the
pronunciation issues seems irrelevant as well, so all I can see is that
maybe it's a spelling problem, although since my name is right there on
every article, that seems to be easy to overcome.

By the way, I'd be glad to show you how to put a person in a kill file
if you tell me what sort of news reader you are using.

>My one and only point is that there are a myriad of reasons why ataylor might
>call Fitch Fitch and you Muffy.  Asking why he does so is one thing. 

I did just ask.  You are the one who is assuming that I was implying
that it was sexist.

>Stating that you would prefer to be addressed as <fill in the blank> is an
>even better answer.

It's not at all a question of how I would prefer to be addressed, it's a
question of why, given *no* expression of preference, the choices were
different.  I think this is an interesting question.  I don't insist
that you think so as well, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't post it.

Muffy
--

Muffy Barkocy | muffy@mica.berkeley.edu | wi.4636@wizvax.methuen.ma.us
~Little round planet/in a big universe/sometimes it looks blessed/
 sometimes it looks cursed/Depends on what you look at, obviously/
 But even more it depends on the way that you see~ - Bruce Cockburn
Newsgroups: alt.feminism,rec.arts.startrek