HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: clamen@CS.CMU.EDU (Stewart Clamen)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: is the hebrew language a new language?
Date: 13 Aug 92 19:32:51 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.Bsxsyu.G59.1
	<1992Aug13.044326.27889@midway.uchicago.edu> <86073@netnews.upenn.edu>
Reply-To: clamen+@CS.CMU.EDU
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon University
Originator: clamen@BYRON.SP.CS.CMU.EDU

In article <86073@netnews.upenn.edu> rubinoff@linc.cis.upenn.edu (Robert Rubinoff) writes:

   In article <1992Aug13.044326.27889@midway.uchicago.edu> goer@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
   >shoham@ll.mit.edu (Daniel Shoham) writes:
   >>Modern Hebrew is the same as the biblical one with modern vocabulary and
   >>gramer added in the past 100 years or so.
   >If the vocabulary and grammar are different, perhaps we'd want to modify
   >this statement:  Modern Hebrew is a language, heavily influenced by Indo-
   >European, Aramaic, and Arabic, that is based on the scholarly and litur-
   >gical language used by Jews from the close of the biblical era up until
   >its revival in our century.

   All languages evolve and change, both from internal processes and
   from contact with other language communities.  Modern Hebrew is not
   the same as Biblical or Mishnaic Hebrew.  It's certainly much
   closer to them than Modern English is to the versions of English
   spoken in Biblical or Mishnaic periods.  This is not surprising,
   since Hebrew was not a native spoken language for the last two
   thousand years.

Although not spoken, it was used as a written language (for Jewish
religious though and among Jewish traders) during the interval, wasn't
it?

Also, I had thought that the Yeminite Jewish communities (as well as
the community in Tunis?) did retain Hebrew as a spoken language, to a
degree.

--
Stewart M. Clamen			Internet:    clamen@cs.cmu.edu
School of Computer Science		UUCP: 	     uunet!"clamen@cs.cmu.edu"
Carnegie Mellon University		Phone: 	     +1 412 268 2145
5000 Forbes Avenue			Fax:	     +1 412 268 5739
Pittsburgh, PA 15213-3890, USA
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Subject: Re: Re; Should a Jew settle in Israel
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: 18 Aug 92 07:59:32 GMT

ms = MASH@WEIZMANN.WEIZMANN.AC.IL (Michael Shimshoni)
as = aaron@kesher.UUCP (Aaron Schmiedel) explains a "great mitzvah":

as: Of COURSE a Jew should settle in Israel.  It is a great mitzvah.  However,
as: due to the lack of extensive shopping malls and central airconditioning,
as: I have sincere doubts I'll ever get my wife to leave Dallas.....

ms: What  is in the
ms: list of  mitzvot, ANY  of which if  a wife refuses  to perform  she is
ms: considered a moredet (rebellious) and thus should be divorced?

ms: Miqveh?   Keeping a kasher home?   Settling in Israel?

Just to straighten up some terminology and the differences between the
various categories

A "moredet" is a woman who refuses to live with her husband.  He must
divorce her.  The husband can't say that he doesn't mind and would
rather continue the marriage, anyway.

A woman who doesn't observe laws such as mikveh or keeping a kosher
home must be divorced (this of course assumes the husband is observant
himself, if he doesn't go into the Beit Din himself, no one is going
to drag him there), but the wife is not called a "moredet".  In this
case, the husband has no choice, either.

Since she doesn't get the 200 zuz in either case, I don't know if
there are any differences, but these are still different cases.

[What if the husband does things that force the wife to violate
halacha?  I would guess that he would have to divorce her, too, if she
complained to the Beit Din.  Maybe this is a tactic for Israeli women
who are having a hard time getting a divorce?  They could pretend to
be baalot teshuva and maybe the Beit Din would order a divorce in a
hurry (and give her custody), I'd guess that most of the problem cases
involve non-observant couples.  Just a thought.  But then we'd have
private investigators barging into motel rooms to photograph her
eating treif or violating Shabbat (non-Jewish photographer, of
course)]

Either spouse may compel the other to either move to Israel or to
give/accept a divorce.  However, while a man must divorce a moredet
et. al., a Zionist with a spouse who prefers airconditioning
is *allowed* to continue the marriage in the land of the BTUs.
-- 
/|/-\/-\       The entire world		Jerusalem
 |__/__/_/     is a very crowned signature virus.
 |warren@      But the chef
/ nysernet.org is not *** at all.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Subject: Re: Reform law versus guidelines
Organization: liver ---> spleen
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 12:49:39 GMT

In article <56954@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu
(Herman Rubin) writes:

>Even in the section on kashruth, there are statements which presumably
>were according to the rather poor biological observations of that time,
>but which we know now to be false.  I claim that this necessarily should
>cause one to question just what was from God, and what was tribal taboo
>or based on similar grounds.  There is no other information on this, so
>we have to use our own soul-searching, and our own attempts to communicate
>with God, to help arrive at what is wanted of us.

Please describe (a synopsis of) the laws of Kashrut as you see them.
Please give an example or two of foods or combinations that would be
currently forbidden according to Kashrut.
-- 
Sam Saal      kingfish!saal OR saal@kingfish.att.com
		Note new machine name
	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton
From: hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Should a jew settle in Israel?
Date: 23 Aug 92 13:40:26 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Statistics Department

In article <1992Aug21.122801.15560@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal) writes:
>In article <57359@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu
>(Herman Rubin) writes:

>>Not just feeding them, but having workplaces, allowing them to have 
>>useful lives, etc.  I personally consider most of Israel as overcongested,
>>anyhow, as I consider most of the cities in the world.

>Either you haven't been to Israel or New York, or your idea of
>overcongestion has an extraordinarily low threshold.

I have been to those places.  I consider New York as a rabbit warren,
with a congestion which MAY have been justified in the early part of
this century, but not now.  The large American cities only survive 
because of government measures to keep them from collapse, and because
of welfare laws effectively designed to keep people on welfare.
-- 
Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399
Phone: (317)494-6054
hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Internet, bitnet)  
{purdue,pur-ee}!pop.stat!hrubin(UUCP)
From: ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Smoking during major fasts
Date: 12 Aug 92 09:10:10 GMT
Organization: Math department, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, ISRAEL

In article <1992Aug11.115448.25992@discus.technion.ac.il>
ben@ccvs1.technion.ac.il (Ben Pashkoff) writes:

>.....
>Kitov in Sefer Ha-Todaa ("Book of Our Heritage") states that smokers
> should NOT smoke in PUBLIC in Fast Days. He brings this down along
> with the prohibition of smelling aromatic fragrances on the 9th of
> Av, which is forbidden as it would please the soul, which is not
> acceptable on this day.  From this it can be concluded that it MAY
> be permissible but a good idea.
>On a broader scale, smoking in general has been stated not to be
> halacically acceptable at all, but still people continue.

>|            Ben Pashkoff                 BEN@VMSA.TECHNION.AC.IL      |

In order that no mis understood nay occur , I must add
that one is totaly clear that one should not smoke on YOM KIPUR.
 One can smell  aromatic fragrances on Yom Kipur.
Note: The author of Sefer Hatoda'ah is "Eliahu Kitov" as written in
     the front page of the book, but he is a real rabbi and it is
     better to call him Rabi Kitov.

Shalom   Gideon   Ehrlich     ERETZ YISRAEL




Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: leo@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (leonard.oppenheimer)
Subject: Re: Anti-Orhodoxy (was Re: O-C-R debate)
Organization: AT&T
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 18:54:16 GMT

In article <1992Aug5.145159.19500@midway.uchicago.edu> rivk@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>In article <553@kesher.UUCP> aaron@kesher.UUCP (Aaron Schmiedel) writes:

>>>The Reform Rabbis I've known have been very definite that Torah is
>>>binding on all Jews. What isn't binding is the halachic method of
>
>>That's interesting, to say the least!
>>
>>So.... tell me....
>>
>>when do these rabbis put on tfillin?
>
>When any of the rest of you do; they're standard in my synagogue.
>That's an interpretation we *do* agree with; it's fairly straight-
>forward.
>

Perhaps I am missing something, but how is the verse "and you shall put
TOTAFOT between your eyes" to be considered a "staight-forward" law?

I don't know how any of the very complex details of making tefillin can be
arrived at without the "halachic" process, as you call it.

In any case, whether or not tefillin are standard in your synagouge, they
are certainly not standard for most reform Jews, (and I assume rabbis).

Also, are tefillin worn in your congregation on Shabbat?  If not, why not?

Lenny
From: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Jews in Japan
Date: 20 Aug 92 21:07:53 GMT
Reply-To: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology
In-reply-to: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)

In article <1992Aug19.192911.25468@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>, saal@cbnewsl (samuel.saal) writes:
>>He has published a book concerning the Japanese role in saving Jews
>>during WWII.  Tied up in this tale, (it's too complicated to go
>>through the whole thing) is a story that he said took place while R.
>>Tokayer was the Chief Rabbi for Japan.

>I believe the name of this book is "The Fugu Plan" (I'm not sure if the
>spelling (Fugu :-) is correct.

I don't remember if Tokayer is the author of THE FUGU PLAN, but it is
a bizarre might-have-been.  In the early days of WWII, the Nazis were
still looking for ways to mostly expel the Jews, but no country was
willing to take them in.  Japan was considering taking them, with the
idea of having them administer Japanese-occupied Manchuria for them.
Believing the PROTOCOLS, they thought the Jews would do a fine job.
But they also were worried that they would do too fine a job, and
take over Japan, and the fugu plan was never carried out.

Why "fugu"?  Fugu is the blowfish, a great delicacy to the Japanese,
partially due to its poisonous nature.  Prepared _just_ right (none
of the ever popular slap-and-dash methods most of us use) and it's
ecstasy, wrong and it's death.

A related story is the rescue of Mir Yeshiva.  Roughly 300 bocherim
crossed the Soviet Union and were given refuge in Japan for the duration
of the war, mostly due to the efforts of one determined Judeophile.  I
can't remember his name--he wrote an autobiography that's definitely
worth reading.  (If no one else supplies it, and someone asks, I can
probably track it down.)  In seminary he took strong interest in Hebrew
and the Old Testament, much to the annoyance of his teachers.  He ended
up in Berkeley for a few years, but somehow did not make contact with
Jews.  He went back to Japan, and in the sixties, visited Israel for
a conversion.  When he died, he was flown to Israel for burial, despite
difficulties caused by the YK war.
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
From: janiceg@marvin.Eng.Sun.COM (Janice Gelb)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Smoking during major fasts
Date: 12 Aug 1992 16:58:15 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: janiceg@marvin.Eng.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: marvin


In article <1992Aug10.222355.7301@news.ysu.edu>, aa324@yfn.ysu.edu (Marlene Miller) writes:
>
>I don't smoke, but I'm curious to know if smoking is permitted during
>major fasts.
>


On a related note, I've always thought someone should do a study on how
dedicated chain smokers are able to completely stop smoking on
Shabbat.  My ex-in-laws were chain smokers but said they did not miss
smoking on Shabbat.  Such a study might give an interesting insight on
addictive behaviors.


********************************************************************************
Janice Gelb                  | (415) 336-7075     
janiceg@marvin.eng.sun.com   | "A silly message but mine own" (not Sun's!) 
********************************************************************************

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet)
Subject: Re: Bringing up Baby
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories,  Columbus, Ohio
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 02:37:09 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.162208.608454@locus.com> hayim@locus.com (Hayim Hendeles) writes:
>In article <1992Aug13.204331.4481@cbnews.cb.att.com> ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet) writes:
>>In article <LGOLD.92Aug12160000@callahans.Cadence.COM> lgold@callahans.Cadence.COM (Lynn Gold) writes:
>>>My brother's girlfriend just found out she's pregnant.
>>>
>>>Since she's Catholic, she's (of course) going through with the
>>>pregnancy, and they're getting married.
>>>
>>>HE, however, is Jewish.
>>>
>>>The two have agreed that while she doesn't want to convert, they want
>>>to raise the children as Jewish.  He wants to do a "conversion at
>>>birth" since the children won't be born Jewish.
>>>
>>>1. Is this doable?
>>>2. If not, how can they raise the children as Jews?
>>
>>The best advice is to see your local reform or conservative rabbi.
>>
>>
>>Art Kamlet 
>
>Are you implying that Orthodox Rabbis are not representing a "valid"
>approach to Judaism? You have always been the one championing equal
>rights, and (coming from you) the omission of Orthodox seems somewhat
>odd.

My, what an interesting suggestion.  Wrong, but interesting.

Come on, folks, let's not get too touchy.  For those who didn't
know, I'll tell you I am a conservative Jew. No surprises?  Ok.

The advice I'm giving  - starting with see your local reform or
conservative rabbi -- serves two purposes, I believe:

First,  I believe -- rightly or wrongly -- that this couple would
receive a more positive reception from a reform or conservative
rabbi.    Second, isn't it odd that so many writers say "See your
local orthodox rabbi" yet, when I recommend seeing your local
conservative rabbi, turnabout doesn't seem to be fair play?  Hmmm.

By the way, you might have me mixed up with Stan K. who  has long
argued that various beliefs of Judaism each "being a 'valid'
approach to Judaism" and "been the one championing equal rights."

I see the issues as based on "faith."   If you have faith in your
belief that G-d dictated the oral law directly to Moses, and I
believe differently, we will each go somewhat separate ways.
-- 
Art Kamlet  a_s_kamlet@att.com  AT&T Bell Laboratories, Columbus
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet)
Subject: Re: Advertising on the Net - NOTES FROM A SEALED ROOM
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories,  Columbus, Ohio
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 05:37:06 GMT
Keywords: Persian Gulf War

In article <1992Aug14.030242.17476@midway.uchicago.edu> goer@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>rwerman@vms.huji.ac.il (ROBERT WERMAN) writes:
>>Although I am reluctant to advertise, and particularly to
>>advertise myself on the net...
>
>I guess if you act obsequious and apologetic enough, it's okay
>to perpetrate an egregous violation of netiquette.

Hoo-ha?

I was an avid reader of Bob's notes during the Gulf war, and felt I
was in that room with him. Very emotional, factual, personal.

Day by day, sometimes more than one attack in a single day. I would
sometimes login late at night hoping to catch Bob's latest post.
Hoping nothing serious had happened; always assuming there would
be a report, yet still apprehensive.

I  emailed or FAXed these to several people including our rabbi, who
further distributed them, and read from them to a number of concerned
groups.  (And we learned another Dr. Werman of our synagogue is a
relative of Bob's -- small world phenomenon.)

While I've never met Bob face to face I felt like he was a good
friend. So it was a tremendous shock to learn he had a heart attack
during this time.  I felt like I had shared with him, and now he was
in the hospital.

When Bob sent me -- at my request -- notice of his book, I
immediately placed 2 orders.  The next day I saw the same notice in
at least one, maybe two mailing lists, and more-or-less forgot it
hadn't yet been posted to the net.  If I had realized that, I would
have preferred to post it for Bob, and take any flak for possible
netiquette breaches.  So please direct the netiquette police my
way too.

We're a strange bunch, aren't we?

We participate in a newsgroup  where people throw insults around
like they grow on trees.  Wars of words proliferate.  Tempers flare.
(I don't post to politics.mideast but suspect the level of flak is
so much higher there.)
This is how to live our lives?  No, this is hazarie.

Yet when Bob tells us his notes -- posted in this newsgroup, by the
way -- will be published and can be purchased --  which described
what he and most other Israelis lived through in the most moving
terms, he gets flamed for exceeding the posted netiquette limit.

Feh.

I'm not much of a literary critic, and will summarize my opinion of
Bob's book:  Buy it, Read it, Share it.   If you have friends or
relatives for whom you would buy any book, buy them a copy.  You and
they will be glad you did.
-- 
Art Kamlet  a_s_kamlet@att.com  AT&T Bell Laboratories, Columbus
From: hlevene@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Howard Levene)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Woody and Soon Yi
Date: 21 Aug 92 20:39:00 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <1992Aug21.072614.28075@midway.uchicago.edu> thf2@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>In article <1992Aug20.182513.8080@ccu.umanitoba.ca> feld@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Michael Feld) writes:
>>
>>Let others debate the question of whether this constitutes incest; 
>>surely the question that WE must pose is: will she convert?
>
>All in all, it's not good for the Jews.  Oy, first Roy Cohn, then
>Michael Milken, and now this.
>-- 

Well, it's too bad for Roy Cohn and Michael Milken (a Penn Grad!  Woe to me!).

They'll have to surrender the "Shanda for the Goyim" award to Woody!

(Compliments to Saturday Night Live and Dennis Miller for originating the
 "Shanda for the Goyim" award joke.)


--
 Howard B. Levene              |    "I'll call you the next time I pass
   You'd think I'd use someone |         through your star system."
      else's opinions?         |          -- Commander Wil Riker, ST:TNG
 hlevene@eniac.seas.upenn.edu  |  Data is a Mechanical Engineer, too.
From: janiceg@marvin.Eng.Sun.COM (Janice Gelb)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Etiquette question: bris (sp?)
Date: 13 Aug 1992 16:39:35 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: janiceg@marvin.Eng.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: marvin

In article 19254@cbnews.cb.att.com, ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet) writes:
*In article <l8ih2kINN849@appserv.Eng.Sun.COM* janiceg@marvin.Eng.Sun.COM writes:
**In article 29185@midway.uchicago.edu, thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank) writes:
***In article <1992Aug3.222329.7142@cbnews.cb.att.com* ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet) writes:
****The father is usually offerred the opportunity to perform the bris
****himself, but in almost every case, a professional "mohel" will do it.
****This is someone who is knowledgable in the Jewish laws concerning
****the bris, and -- hopefully -- very experienced.  
***
***Nu, how does a mohel become very experienced?
**
**Practice, practice, practice ...
*
*Um, well then, how does a mohel get to Carnegie Hall?

He takes the train and buys a ticket.  :->


********************************************************************************
Janice Gelb                  | (415) 336-7075     
janiceg@marvin.eng.sun.com   | "A silly message but mine own" (not Sun's!) 
********************************************************************************

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Subject: Re: Egg Creams (was Re: Proof of the Decline and Fall)
Organization: liver ---> spleen
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 13:11:29 GMT

In article <92Aug21.032854.22038@acs.ucalgary.ca>
kmjoffe@acs.ucalgary.ca (Kenneth M. Joffe) writes:

>Hold on a second here.  What is this crap with seltzer??  Maybe I
>do not know exactly what an 'egg cream' is. I remember my
>bub making something called 'goggle moggle'.  Not sure if
>that is an official name or her own term.  It involved boiling
>milk with an egg in it, adding vanila extract and other stuff.
>When I first saw the header 'egg cream' I thought that it was
>equivalent to 'goggle moggle'.  Deciding to read the postings, I
>was suprised with the use of seltzer.  Am I alone on this one, or
>are there supporters.  Maybe there are two 'egg creams': A) the
>official egg cream that you mention and B) my bub's egg cream.

A goggle moggle is not the same thing as an egg cream.  A goggle moggle
is a potent, medicinal drink (at least I was only offered/counseled to
drink one when I was sick :-).  The origins of the name egg cream are
shrouded in mystery. After all there is no egg used in its production.
My theory is that the foam on top resembles that of a slightly beaten
egg white - except more chocolaty.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet)
Subject: Re: Tell Us About Your Practice (was Re: more of ...can of worms....)
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories,  Columbus, Ohio
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 22:06:23 GMT

>>In article analyst@netcom.com, analyst@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes:
>
>>>Reform Jews praying to Our Heavenly Father,

Aveinu shebashamayan who?
-- 
Art Kamlet  a_s_kamlet@att.com  AT&T Bell Laboratories, Columbus
From: aaron@kesher.UUCP (Aaron Schmiedel)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Proof of the Decline and Fall
Date: 19 Aug 92 13:50:16 GMT
Organization: KESHERnet International - Dallas, TX

In article <1992Aug17.124853.6719@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal) writes:
>similarly effective.  Neither could pass for _real_ egg creams even though
>the chocolate version was made with U-Bet (tm) syrup.
>
>Now I've gotta go home and make me one.



So, I'm sorta a collector for egg creme recipes (still looking for the "perfect"
egg creme).

Got a good recipe?



-- 
| Aaron D. Schmiedel            |  All my opinions represent what is right  |
| KESHERnet International       |  and true.  Just ask me....               |
| The Jewish Computer Network   |       <aaron@kesher.lonestar.org>         |
| Voice: (214) 239-1941         | ...uunet!convex!egsner!sdf!kesher!aaron   |
From: CARIAN@auvm.american.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Egg Creams (was Re: Proof of the Decline and Fall)
Date: 20 Aug 92 21:16:51 GMT
Article-I.D.: auvm.92233.171651CARIAN
 <1992Aug17.124853.6719@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> <567@kesher.UUCP>
 <1992Aug20.133137.27509@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>
Organization: The American University - University Computing Center

Sam's recipe is pretty good but he uses too much milk.

You should never fill the glass with more than 1/3 milk at the most.

This is not just my interpretation. This is FACT.

Charles Arian
CARIAN@american.edu
Organization: Masters student, Information Networking Institute, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA