From: jbrindle@halcyon.com (Jennifer Brindle)
Subject: Re: The christian perspective...?
Organization: The 23:00 News and Mail Service
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 16:56:18 GMT

In article <1992Sep27.205914.6734@nntp.uoregon.edu> egorr@hebb.uoregon.edu (Eric Gorr) writes:
>In article <p90nwq+.bskendig@netcom.com>, bskendig@netcom.com (Brian
>Kendig) writes:
>> 
>> Eric writes:
>> >Brian writes:
>> >>Eric writes:
>>
>> >> Ah, okay, then.  So you're saying that if a fertilized egg divides
>> >> into three individual developing humans, then only one of them is a
>> >> 'person'.  After all, there was only one 'person' to start with, and
>> >> since there was only one conception between one egg and one sperm,
>> >> there was never the opportunity to bring more 'people' into the
>> >> situation.
>> >
>> >No.  You would have three persons...but unless and until it splits, you
>> >only have one.
>> 
>> Huh?  Okay, so where do the other two 'persons' come from?  
>
>They came as a result of the split.
>

But don't you believe that its _conception_ that causes "persons" to
come into being?  How can a simple egg-split equate with conception?
Either it's conception or its not.  Which is it?  If its conception,
then you have one and only one person and whatever happens later is
not important to the issue.  If its not, then that's a whole new
ball of wax.


>>  You said
>> 'personhood' starts at conception, so obviously there's only one
>> 'person' involved here.  
>
>Another way one may be able to think about it would be that if the split
>did in fact occur, there there in reality two people involved from the
>start.  Just because we didn't detect that, doesn't mean that they both
>weren't there.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.  Gee, I laughed really hard on this one.
Let me inform you of a BASIC FACT IN BIOLOGY:  There are three ways
to get twins, or other multiple births (I know because I just recently
discussed this with my ob, who should know these things far better than
you, college boy).
 1-More than one egg is released from the ovary at ovulation.  All released
eggs are fertilized and implant.  The resulting fetuses are known as
fraternal twins or triplets, or whatever.  Sometimes they share an embryonic
sac, sometimes they don't.  I don't know why.
 2-Only one egg is released from the ovary at ovulation.  It is fertilized
by one sperm, then for some reason, splits before implantation (or maybe
after implantation, I don't know).  This is known as identical twins.  I think
identical twins must share the same sac, but I could be wrong.
 3-Only one egg is released from the ovary at ovulation.  It is fertilized
by two or more sperm (yes, folks this is possible).  The  multiple fertilization
causes a splitting to preserve integrity (otherwise the fertilized egg could
not develop).  I don't remember the term for this.

In all cases, it is known, or can be determined just how many eggs have
been fertilized at conception (assuming that we have miniature cameras
at just the right spot at just the right time).  We can detect and we do
know what and when an egg splits.  That is a known biological fact.

An inert egg does not split.


>
>But at the moment of the split, there are now two persons involved.
>
>> Or are you adding more qualifications on when
>> 'personhood' begins? 
>
>If you think I am being silly, please explain in a rational, logical
>fashion, why this is so.  I'll be
>waiting...

no, I don't think you're being silly.  I think you haven't thought this
through very well and are trying to do some quick backpeddling or, when
that fails, changing the subject.  

If conception is your only criteria for personhood, then you only have
one "person"--ever.  However, if you add another criteria--possible
egg-splitting time, then that's not conception, is it?  So, which is it---
conception or not?  ARe there always one person, or can there be more?
If you answer with "more, of course" then conception cannot possibly
be the time when a "person" is formed!

Jennifer
Newsgroups: talk.abortion,alt.abortion.inequity