HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: michels@spot.Colorado.EDU (MICHELS LENA)
Subject: Wanted: CU-Kansas State Tickets
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Distribution: co
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 04:39:18 GMT

WANTED:

4 tickets together for the CU-Kansas State football game on
October 24th.

Please e-mail michels@spot.colorado.edu or call Lena at
279-7523 if you have tickets available.

Thanks!

Xref: sparky boulder.general:886 co.general:1405 misc.forsale:27414
From: ebrooks@advtech.uswest.com (e j brooks)
Newsgroups: uswest.forsale,boulder.general,co.general,misc.forsale
Subject: Bedroom set for sale
Date: 28 Sep 92 19:52:43 GMT
Followup-To: uswest.forsale
Organization: U S WEST Advanced Technologies

FOR SALE:
ETHAN ALLEN ANTIQUE PINE 5 PC BEDROOM SET 
consisting of:
 
Double Canopy Bed
Nightstand
Single Dresser (3 drawers) w/ Mirror
Lingerie Chest (7 drawers)

All in excellent condition.  Would prefer to sell as a set. Have double
mattress that could be included if desired.  

Asking $2000 or make offer.

Call Emily at 303-541-6221 (WK) or 303-666-6254 (HM).  

ebrooks@advtech.uswest.com
Newsgroups: uswest.forsale,boulder.general,cu.general
From: amarx@advtech.uswest.com (Adam Marx)
Subject: Mac For sale (cheap)
Originator: amarx@mongo
Organization: U S WEST Advanced Technologies
Distribution: co
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1992 18:17:14 GMT

I've finally moved up to a color Mac (at home), which leaves my old mac for 
sale:
- Started life as a Mac 512KE (512k memory, Mac Plus ROMS, 800k floppy)
- Added a memory board, and added 2 meg of RAM (for a total of 2.5 meg)
- Added a SCSI port
- Added a 20 Mb external SCSI hard disk.
- Added a DataDesk 101 keyboard (much nicer than Apple's)
- Added a fan/power filter to keep it running cool and collected
Other stuff:
- The system is running System 6.05, and it will support System 7.
- It's cheap and easy to bring this Mac up to 4 Meg of Ram (2 1mb SIMMs at $35
 each)
- The system is about 7 years old (I bought it to get me through graduate 
school), and for the sake of boosting buyer confidence (and salving my own 
conscience), I'm also offering a 30-day money back guarantee (no Ginsu knives,
 though...)
- I'm asking $475, although I will entertain any remotely reasonable offers.
Adam Marx
U S WEST/AT
303-541-6009
amarx@uswest.com
Newsgroups: austin.eff
From: jsq@tic.com (John Quarterman)
Subject: Re: Austin Free-Net?
Originator: riddle@aahsa.tic.com
X-Submissions: eff-austin@tic.com
Organization: Texas Internet Consulting
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 21:27:42 GMT

In article <1992Sep29.224139.26761@tic.com> jim@tadusa.uucp (Jim Thompson) writes:
>Hmm, perhaps we could embarras the City into providing a bit of
>funding.
>
>> I think perhaps we should look at not an either/or, but a both/and
>> approach as I was taught by people at the MediaLab.  Why limit people
>> to one approach?  Why not give people what is most appropriate for
>> them?
>
>Certainly.  I agree that my mom, were she living in Austin and a
>subscriber to "Austin Freenet", would probably not enjoy dealing with
>'ftp' the program.  But I don't know that this means that she need
>login to a Unix box and be presented with a set of ASCII screens.  My
>mom is a Mac-bigot, but perhaps someone else prefers uSoft Windows.  Me
>thinks it would be much better to obtain or develop a TCP/IP stack for
>the machines in question, and then have a UI built on some native
>windowing system, and present *that* to the user, instead of a set of
>ASCII menus.  Give them both, but let some tiny PeeCee on the other end
>of the wire deal with all the UI interupts.

It's already been done, for both Macs and PCs, and is commercially available.

>I'm holding out for SIP.  I'll not voice my opinion of PIP here. :-) 
>
>Even if PIP (or SIP) is chosen next year, it will be another two or three
>years before the Internet can even think of cutting over to the new
>protocol.  I *personally* remember the night of the NCP->IP cut, and
>DARPA no longer has operational responsibility for all the routers.

I remember it too, but most people on this newsgroup probably don't
know what NCP, PIP, or SIP are.  Maybe someone would like to post
an explanation.

John


Newsgroups: austin.eff
From: jsq@tic.com (John Quarterman)
Subject: Re: Austin Free-net?
Originator: riddle@aahsa.tic.com
X-Submissions: eff-austin@tic.com
Organization: Texas Internet Consulting
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 16:49:55 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.230101.17052@tic.com> bazooka@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Bob Anderson) writes:
>There sure is alot of techie-talk going on in regards to this topic and
>I hope I am not being too dumb by joining in.  I enjoy having a shell
>account and enjoy having the following available to me:  telnet, ftp and
>irc.  Other services like mail and reading newsgroups can be obtained
>alot of other places.

Could it be that the UNIX shell is not as hard to learn as some have
been led to believe?  :-)

>Someone brought up the subject of a front end and I thought we might
>want to rememeber that EFF is at this moment engaged in developing
>just such a thing.  The following is from a FAQ from Cambridge:
>
>* To advance ease of use and maximum connectivity, we have launched the
>  Intersuite Project. Working with Software Tool and Die, operators of The
>  World, a public access Unix system in Brookline, Massachusetts, we will
>  develop an easy series of applications for connecting to the Internet
>  from personal computers. Once completed in 1993, these applications will
>  be released into the public domain.

Meanwhile, you can buy such applications for Macs and PCs off the shelf
right now.

John


Newsgroups: austin.eff
From: jim@tadusa.uucp (Jim Thompson)
Subject: Re: Austin Free-Net?
Originator: riddle@aahsa.tic.com
X-Submissions: eff-austin@tic.com
Organization: none
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 16:26:36 GMT

Hmm, perhaps we could embarras the City into providing a bit of
funding.

> I think perhaps we should look at not an either/or, but a both/and
> approach as I was taught by people at the MediaLab.  Why limit people
> to one approach?  Why not give people what is most appropriate for
> them?

Certainly.  I agree that my mom, were she living in Austin and a
subscriber to "Austin Freenet", would probably not enjoy dealing with
'ftp' the program.  But I don't know that this means that she need
login to a Unix box and be presented with a set of ASCII screens.  My
mom is a Mac-bigot, but perhaps someone else prefers uSoft Windows.  Me
thinks it would be much better to obtain or develop a TCP/IP stack for
the machines in question, and then have a UI built on some native
windowing system, and present *that* to the user, instead of a set of
ASCII menus.  Give them both, but let some tiny PeeCee on the other end
of the wire deal with all the UI interupts.

> We would definately be pushing POP to it's limits, and I think we need
> to consider some of the IETF WG work on remote mail access. POP is too
> limited for this project I think, if we do it this way.

I don't know how POP is limited for this case.  I'm of the opinion that
its one of the few places where POP will fit.  There is no IETF WG on
remote mail access, only a (lately) very quiet mailing list.  Note that
I'm not saying that POP is the perfect rmap, but it does seem to deal
with mailbox transfer very well.

> Also, as a member of the Pip Working Group (proposed IP7), I think
> some stuff will have to wait till early next year, since that is the
> earliest a definitive decision will be made on what the IP4
> replacement will be. I *HOPE* Pip gets the nod, as I think it's the
> technologically superior system, but we are in a crunch to do real
> world work right now.

I'm holding out for SIP.  I'll not voice my opinion of PIP here. :-) 

Even if PIP (or SIP) is chosen next year, it will be another two or three
years before the Internet can even think of cutting over to the new
protocol.  I *personally* remember the night of the NCP->IP cut, and
DARPA no longer has operational responsibility for all the routers.

Jim



Newsgroups: austin.eff
From: jsq@tic.com (John Quarterman)
Subject: Re: Austin Free-Net?
Originator: riddle@aahsa.tic.com
X-Submissions: eff-austin@tic.com
Organization: Texas Internet Consulting
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 16:19:26 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.223628.15966@tic.com> jim@tadusa.uucp (Jim Thompson) writes:
>P.S.  I've always wanted to put a system up that had suser() patched to
>always return TRUE.  Think of it as a social experiment, everyone gets
>a large stick, and the objective is to ensure that the system stays up.
>(Actually, there is no objective, but if the system continually crashes,
>or is otherwise unstable, then fewer individuals can enjoy it.)

It's been done.  ITS, the MIT Incompatible Timesharing System,
had no protection, was multiuser, and on the Internet.  RMS was
one of the principals behind it.

John


Newsgroups: austin.eff
From: george@wixer.cactus.org (George Wenzel)
Subject: Re: BBS Liaison Committee
Originator: riddle@aahsa.tic.com
X-Submissions: eff-austin@tic.com
Organization: Real/Time Communications
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1992 22:07:03 GMT

In article <1992Sep21.141724.22228@tic.com> bladex@wixer.uucp (David Smith) writes:
><pulls out trumpet>
>
>ba da romp da romp da dum....
>
>
>At the last Board of Directors meeting, yours truly was elected to chair the
>BBS Liaison Committee.  Imagine my excitement, especially, when looking up
>the word "liaison" in my dictionary, discovered that it means an illicit
>union between man & woman.  I'm excited.

I'm excited for you too, David... so, whats her name? :)

>
>George Wentzel and Tom Parrish, though there might be more sysops lurking out
>
hey... Hey... HEY!  Thats Wenzel...  
Guess I *should* email you, however... it will get to you before this reply
will...

While you are out there spreading the word, David, you should spread the
word about the proposed Austin Free-net being discussed in this group.  I
have been working on getting support for this, and from the looks of it we
are getting very close to having something put together.

George
-- 
George Wenzel                    |  Real/Time Communications
george@wixer.cactus.org          |  "faster, smarter and costs less..."
cactus.org!wixer!george          |  "Hardware solutions for the real world."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: austin.eff
From: sjackson@tic.com (Steve Jackson)
Subject: The CyberArts Meeting
Originator: riddle@aahsa.tic.com
X-Submissions: eff-austin@tic.com
Organization: none
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 04:36:30 GMT

I know that Jon set this up on his own, but I saw at least one
announcement calling it an EFF event, and when I saw Jon at the network
meeting he told me it had turned into an EFF event. I'd rather include
people by mistake than exclude them by mistake. Jon, can you clarify?
Newsgroups: austin.eff
From: petrilli@nextover.pe.utexas.edu (Chris Petrilli)
Subject: Re: Austin Free-Net? 
Originator: riddle@aahsa.tic.com
X-Submissions: eff-austin@tic.com
Organization: none
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 19:58:15 GMT

>>>>> On Thu, 1 Oct 92 10:47:19 CDT, tadusa!jim@uunet.uu.net (Jim Thompson) said:

Jim> OK, it seems clear at this point that we have orthogonal goals.
Jim> I could respond to your response, and I'm sure you would respond
Jim> to mine.  (Part of my really does want to continue this debate,
Jim> though I'm sure it would go much faster face-to-face over
Jim> caffine-laden drink.

I agree, I think we're aiming at both a different group and a
different end.

Jim> There is one way to show who is right (or even that we both
Jim> are/were), build the proposed system, see if one or both
Jim> succeede.  10 years from now, see which exists.

That's one perspective, the other is to merge together.  See, I don't
see there being one "true" way to do things, I think that SLIP/PPP has
it's place, just as an "idiot interface" does.  I'd rather support
both and give the people both what they want and what they need rather
than alienate a specific group of people based on what *I* think is
right.  That is why I want a both/and rather than a either/or approach.

Jim> I'll now retire from the discussion.

You're welcome to, but I wouldn't mind a continued discussion,
especially in person :-)

Chris
--
| Chris Petrilli
| petrilli@nextover.pe.utexas.edu, petrilli@gnu.ai.mit.edu
| All opinions are my own, if they even belong to anyone.


Newsgroups: austin.eff
From: max@underg.ucf.org (Max Cray)
Subject: austin.freenet newsgroup?
Originator: riddle@aahsa.tic.com
X-Submissions: eff-austin@tic.com
Organization: Underground Computing Foundation
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 02:07:27 GMT

Submitted-by: max@underg.ucf.org (Max Cray)

Moderator!:  Delete most of these lines (begin):
UUCP-From underg!max@uunet.UU.NET Sat Oct  3 23:53:28 1992
Unexpected: Return-Path: <underg!max@uunet.UU.NET>
Original-To: petrilli@nextover.pe.utexas.edu (Chris Petrilli)
Original-Cc: eff-austin@tic.com
Original-From: max@underg.ucf.org (Max Cray)
Original-Message-Id: <53k4RB8w165w@underg.ucf.org>
Submitted-In-Reply-To: <1992Oct1.223433.11755@tic.com>
Moderator!:  Delete most of these lines (end).

petrilli@nextover.pe.utexas.edu (Chris Petrilli) writes:

> A number of the "opposition" to such a system met last night and discussed  
> the future of free networking (and free access) in Austin.  One doesn't  
> necessarily require, nor preclude the other, but both should exist  
> together.

I did not see this meeting announcement posted. Could you please keep us
who are interested in this project informed of orginizational meetings?

I notice there seems to be two factions. I think if we could resolve this
dispute, it would go a long way toward a successful conclusion. It will
be hard enough to accomplish without infighting.

Since there seems to be alot of interest and traffic on this topic perhaps
a new newsgroup is in order:

austin.freenet    Discussion of the Austin FreeNet project (unmoderated)

Comments?

   [Note from the moderator: please reply directly to Max, not to all of
   austin.eff/eff-austin.  Thanks.  -- Prentiss Riddle, riddle@tic.com]

                                          -= Max =-

---------------------------------------------------------------------
I program in C because it turns women on...


Newsgroups: austin.eff
From: bazooka@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Bob Anderson)
Subject: Re: Preliminary agenda for October meeting
Originator: riddle@aahsa.tic.com
X-Submissions: eff-austin@tic.com
Organization: none
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 01:35:03 GMT

Correction, please do not claim credit for the following

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
LOCAL ACTIVITY SINCE LAST MEETING
   Jon Lebkowsky's 9-27 Cyberarts meeting filled the house at High Time.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

This had nothing to do with either EFF or EFF Austin

-- 
   Robert Anderson    \   
bazooka@well.sf.ca.us  \                 Be your own jesus    
+1 512-451-4610 & 7117  \   


Newsgroups: austin.eff
From: clb@mistxt.oc.com (Chris Boyd)
Subject: Re: Austin Free-Net?
Originator: riddle@aahsa.tic.com
X-Submissions: eff-austin@tic.com
Organization: OpenConnect Systems, Dallas, TX
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1992 12:27:04 GMT

>Another option would be to not use the Freenet software. Just give
>everybody shell acces, and perhaps hack together a beginners shell
>or some other custom software. The important thing is the TCP/IP
>access.
>                                          -= Max =-
>..!uunet!underg!max
>..!cactus.org!underg!max
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>I program in C because it turns women on...

There's a successful (at least always busy when I call) free access in
Dallas, but I would really like to see some inexspensive SLIP or PPP
services in the area.  Anyone thinking of doing this?
-- 
(* Chris Boyd          OpenConnect Systems, Inc.          clb@oc.com *)


Newsgroups: austin.eff
From: donna@wixer.uucp (Donna K. McLaughlin)
Subject: Volunteers for Armadillocon!
Originator: riddle@aahsa.tic.com
X-Submissions: eff-austin@tic.com
Organization: none
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 15:04:54 GMT


Hello everyone!

An exciting volunteer opportunity you won't want to miss!

On October 9-11 you could be behind one of the hippest coolest fourlegged
conglomerations of folx in Austin, The EFF-Austin table at Armadillcon!

I'm looking to fill hourly-two hourly time slots all day Saturday and
Sunday afternoon.  I'll be getting more logistics this afternoon...
but hey, if you are interested don't wait!  Call now!

444-9709 (leave a message if unavailable)
or right here at my wixer acct...or even at donna@well.sf.ca.us.

all tags are protected by law and can only be removed by the consumer.
D!


Newsgroups: austin.eff
From: max@underg.uucp (Max Cray)
Subject: misc...
Originator: riddle@aahsa.tic.com
X-Submissions: eff-austin@tic.com
Organization: Underground Computing Foundation
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1992 07:39:14 GMT

  I recall hearing that the EFF was helping Steve Jackson Games sue the
Secret Service, but I have not heard anything about this lately. What
is the status of this?

---------------------------------------------------------------------

  I am trying to get a domian name in the .ORG hierarchy since I
beleive my bbs, and e-journal more closely resemble an organization
rather that a commercial entity (ie, .COM).  I am told by uunet
(my MX forwarder), that my organization has to comply with IRS 501(c)3
regulations for a non-profit, or not-for-profit organization.
Does anyone know where I can find these regulations (preferably online)
or do I have to actually (cue scary music) talk to the IRS?

---------------------------------------------------------------------

For those interested in networks, uunet has a new POP (Point Of Presence,
I think) in Austin:

--

From: tamara@uunet.uu.net (Tamara S. Bowman)
Newsgroups: uunet.announce
Subject: Austin Hub Now Available for UUCP
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1992 21:27:53 GMT
Organization: UUNET Technologies Inc, Falls Church, VA

The Austin hub is now available for uucp connection.

The modem number is 512 795 0264.

We have noticed that there is a reduced throughput with
uucp connections through this hub.  This will improve as
we upgrade the backbone links to our Texas POPs; the
faster links are already on order. If you are in the Austin
area and currently calling long distance or using the 800
number the reduced throughput will most likely be offset 
by the lower cost of the call. 

Tamara Bowman                   liaison@uunet.uu.net
Manager Technical Support       uunet!liaison
UUNET Technologies, Inc.

--

                                          -= Max =-
..!uunet!underg!max
..!cactus.org!underg!max
---------------------------------------------------------------------
I program in C because it turns women on...



[A note from the moderator: in the future, please post messages like
this as discrete items with appropriate subject lines.  It helps people
follow the threads of conversations more effectively.  Thanks. 
-- Prentiss Riddle, riddle@tic.com]
Newsgroups: austin.eff
From: max@underg.ucf.org (Max Cray)
Subject: Re: Austin Free-Net? 
Originator: riddle@aahsa.tic.com
X-Submissions: eff-austin@tic.com
Organization: Underground Computing Foundation
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 01:50:07 GMT

petrilli@nextover.pe.utexas.edu (Chris Petrilli) writes:

> Jim> There is one way to show who is right (or even that we both
> Jim> are/were), build the proposed system, see if one or both
> Jim> succeede.  10 years from now, see which exists.
> 
> That's one perspective, the other is to merge together.  See, I don't
> see there being one "true" way to do things, I think that SLIP/PPP has
> it's place, just as an "idiot interface" does.  I'd rather support
> both and give the people both what they want and what they need rather
> than alienate a specific group of people based on what *I* think is
> right.  That is why I want a both/and rather than a either/or approach.
> 
> Jim> I'll now retire from the discussion.
> 
> You're welcome to, but I wouldn't mind a continued discussion,
> especially in person :-)

I would like to say thanks for the interchange. I thought both sides
presented thier cases very well. I think I agree with the point of view
that PPP/SLIP connections (ie. putting your home machine on the net, as 
opposed to just dialing into a machine on the net) should be an option,
and not a requirement. I would like to everyone to be able to have
a TCP/IP connection, but I think it is technologically beyond most folks.
There is free software available (KA9Q), but it is not trivial to set up.
Its not trivial to even read the docs to that puppy. If there was some
free turnkey software then I would say go for it, but so far, it does not
exist. However we should look ahead as this is not far off. Microsoft, and 
USL are both getting ready to release mainstream operating systems for cheap
(around $200) that will include TCP/IP networking.
   To clarify things: we are not talking about Internet Mail, or Usenet.
We already have that (cactus, bbses, etc). What we need is TCP/IP realtime
access to do the kind of things we saw at the last EFF session: talk, gopher,
ftp, telnet, irc, MUDs, etc. Interface issues are secondary to the real
problem at hand: access.

                                          -= Max =-

---------------------------------------------------------------------
I program in C because it turns women on...


Newsgroups: austin.eff
From: rita@eff.org (Rita Marie Rouvalis)
Subject: Re: Recognized by National?
Originator: riddle@aahsa.tic.com
X-Submissions: eff-austin@tic.com
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 17:09:30 GMT

In article <1992Sep28.233755.8956@tic.com> nia@nuchat.sccsi.com (NIA Newsletter) writes:
>I was browsing thru comp.org.eff.news and saw this well-written
>piece of news about "all the EFF groups and their activities..." It
>had tons of info about Cambridge and Washington, but Austin was not
>mentioned at all.
>
>Did anyone bother to tell those guys about EFF-A?


	Is this the "what we did on your summer vacation bit"?  Yes,
well, I'm very aware that EFF-Austin exists (note my presence on your
nifty little newgroup -- the only one I subscribe to since swearing
off Usenet recently).  However, my pleas for copy to the Austin group go
largely ignored; therefore the Austin group is largely ignored in our
publications.  That bit originated with the @eff.org newsletter, for
which I've been asking for input from the Austin Chapter since the
newsletter's inception last spring.

	I will be sending out another request for an item for our
publications.  If I get a response, you will be covered in EFFO and
/or @eff.org.  If not, well, what can I do?  It's a two-way street
folks, and I don't have the time to go more than half way.


-- 
Rita Marie Rouvalis              rita@eff.org 
Electronic Frontier Foundation   | Brown eggs are local eggs,
155 Second Street                | and local eggs are fresh!
Cambridge, MA 02141 617-864-0665 | 


Newsgroups: austin.eff