HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: aaron@binah.cc.brandeis.edu (Scott Aaron)
Subject: Re: Is music amoral??
Reply-To: aaron@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Organization: Brandeis University
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 20:37:42 GMT

In article <1992Sep1.145917.17953@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu>, noel@crs.cl.msu.edu (Noel Estabrook) writes:
>I don't generally like to deal with non-existent hypothetical situations, but
>ok.  First, it was altered (significantly, I think).  IF they had performed
>it exactly as Fleetwood Mac had, then, yes, I would agree that the meaning
>would have been the same and I would have a hard time accepting it.

How about "Dream On" then?  I referred to it before and got no response.  Greg
Volz didn't change the lyrics or the music when he performed it.  The only
thing that changed was the performed and the context in which the song was
peformed, which changed the listeners expectations of the song.  If the song
can be used in a "Christian" setting, how can it be evil?

  -- Scott @Brandeis

                           I asked Jesus,
                     "How much do you love me?"
                     "This much," He answered;
                        and He stretched out
                         His arms and died.
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: mjenkins@alfred.carleton.ca (Michael Jenkinson)
Subject: Re: Word suspends Warnke sales
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 18:10:41 GMT

I'm not sure if Word can be sued because of Mike Warnke's actions.
While I'm no lawyer, there does seem to be a bit of a precedent with
the Milli Vanilli thing a few years back. When it was revealed that
they were frauds, a number of people launched lawsuits against Arista
Records. If something similar were to occur with Warnke, a number of
issues would have to be brought up:

1) Was Word a willing participant in the cover-up? In other words, did
they put out Mike's albums with the knowledge that he was making up
large parts or all of his satanism story?

I have no answer for this, nor do I want to speculate. However, a
relevant point is Mike's four marriages, which *appear* (unless there
is evidence to the contrary) to have been *at best* condoned by
virtually everyone involved in his career, and I would assume, by Word
as well.

2) Should Christians be suing? This is the $60,000 question. Is Mike
Warnke (still) considered a Christian, and therefore we should not be taking
our disputes in front of a secular court? Would suing Mike Warnke
solve anything other than fulfilling our sense of vengence and
justice?

Personally, I hope no one tries suing Word, or Warnke. Speculation:
Word has a number of high-priced lawyers at their disposal and would
crush anyone who tried to sue. Speculation: The media would turn this
into a circus beyond what it already is, and Christendom doesn't need
this. 

3) What if Warnke repents? This is the scenerio talked little about
(from what I've seen anyway) but it would throw a monkey wrench into
the entire thing for a couple of reasons. Some would see it as
entirely a cynical move on Warnke's part, just another reason to make
money (the NEW Mike Warnke on tour!). This would be more true if he
was going to get sued big-time, as it would likely diffuse any
potential litigation. But it may be genuine, which would be wonderful,
and hopefully would bring the entire issue to a close.

Mike
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: kemery@nmsu.edu (Kendal Emery)
Subject: Re: Music that makes you drive fast
Organization: NMSU Computer Science
Distribution: rec
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 12:23:05 GMT


In Article Message-ID: <1992Sep1.192444.27155@samba.oit.unc.edu>
>|> In article <66562@hydra.gatech.EDU>, gt6223b@prism.gatech.EDU (Jerry B. Ray) writes:
>|> > 
>>|> > I've seen a number of posts on this subject already, and i'm just wondering...
>>|> > 
>>|> > What songs make you want to roll down the windows and drive really fast?

Most Specific song was Whiteheart "Convertibles".


>|> 
>>|> Speaking of speedlimits, a friend of ours, who is a "Man of the Cloth", was 
>>|> running late for a Bible study. An officer pulled him over for being 10 klms 
>>|> over the posted 110kmh limit. The officer checked his ID, then, obviously 
>>|> amused, asked him the reason for his indiscretion. The MOTC told the officer 
>>|> "that the Lord's work requires haste". The officer said that he had not heard 
>>|> that one before and let him off the charge.
>>|> 
>>|>  
>>|> > JRjr 
>>|> > -- 
>>|> Paul
>
>>    Another true speed limit story: A "man of the cloth" speeding,
>>    gets stopped by the police, says something like "I'm a man of God",
>>    policeman retorts: "God left the car when you went over 55" and gives
>>    him a ticket.


>Gee, whatever happened to "He will never leave you nor forsake you".. like
>you're gonna DITCH God over 55, SHA! AS IF!

Actually I think this would be more of a case of you "Leaving" God.
                                                                 8:)


>Phil
>Editor, Cephas

>--
>   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
>     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
>        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
>           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80

Kendal


--
*******************************************************************
*******************************************************************
** kemery@dante.nmsu.edu  (Kendal Emery)                         **
**                                                               **
**      "If Jesus came back today...                             **
**         We'd try to book Him on the Oprah Winfry Show"        **
**                      Randy Stonehill..Great Big Stupid World. **
**                                                               **
*******************************************************************
*******************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: jrhunsbe@eos.ncsu.edu (JONATHAN RO HUNSBERGER)
Subject: Mad At The World:  Through The Forest
Originator: jrhunsbe@c00479-224wi.eos.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: jrhunsbe@eos.ncsu.edu (JONATHAN RO HUNSBERGER)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 02:18:18 GMT


Has anyone heard anything about this album?

I saw it earlier in the summer in a list of upcoming releases
and the date was sometime in August.  I haven't been able to find
it at Christian Bookstores here.  Has anyone seen this album yet?

If you have heard it, please post a review.

(Not that you COULD talk me out of buying it.  I'm just curious to
know your opinions of it.)


Jonathan Roy Hunsberger
jrhunsbe@eos.ncsu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: mjenkins@alfred.carleton.ca (Michael Jenkinson)
Subject: Re: What's happening to STRYPER and Michael
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 16:23:58 GMT

In <1992Sep2.155024.18446@mail.cornell.edu> R Todd Albee <rta1@cornell.edu> writes:


>Michael Sweet left Stryper to pursue a solo career.
>Enigma dropped Stryper's contract.
>Stryper is looking for a new lead singer.

>Todd

Correction: Enigma went out of business two years ago, *Hollywood
Records* (a subsidiary of Disny Corp) dropped Stryper's contract.

You're welcome! :)

Mike
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: jpersons@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John C Persons)
Subject: Re: TANGENT: Re: Is music amoral??
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 19:34:15 GMT


>>>  Examples of the second kind would be an instrument of torture, such as a 
>>>rack, or perhaps a statue of Moloch, complete with uplifted hands designed
>>>for people to pan-fry their babies in...
>>
>>There is nothing evil in the rack itself; the evil is in the people who use
>>the thing to torture others.  It is a subtle difference but quite significant.
>
>Hmm. so tell what would a GOOD, non-evil use of a rack be?

Workbench?
Laundry table?
Dining room table?  (Wouldn't that help your appetite?)

John "this post is either sarcastic, ironic, or just plain stupid" Persons


Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: tothmd@ucunix.san.uc.edu (Michael David Toth)
Subject: Re: Anyone in US heard of `Lies Damned Lies'
Organization: University of Cincinnati
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 01:50:22 GMT

In article <1992Aug25.164514.1@vaxa.strath.ac.uk> ccas12@vaxa.strath.ac.uk writes:
>Hi   
>	Has anyone in the US heard of a band called
>`Lies Damned Lies' ?
>
Yeah, believe it or not.  But for all intents and purposes they're total
unknowns here.  There are a couple places that import their stuff (one
guy at True Tunes REALLY likes their music) but from what little I've
heard, I'm reluctant to pay twice as much for a regular CD for the
import.  I did kind of like their last release as Talking Drums
(Reassembly) though.

Blonde Vinyl just reissued Tribe of Dan's "Shook Up Shook Up" here in
the States, but with a name like "Lies Damned Lies" their days are
numbered in the Christian industry, and I don't see them getting
reissued similarly or making a dent outside CCM and becoming big US
secular hits.  How popular are these folks in the UK?  Aren't they on a
major label like BMG?
>malc
>.....

mike
From: jpersons@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John C Persons)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: King's X thingie
Date: 31 Aug 92 16:57:48 GMT
Organization: The Ohio State University

In article <92244.105942IO11300@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> I've opened my heart to Christ and His love <IO11300@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> writes:
>Here we go....
>I am no authority on what Mr. Wilson means, but I do have a slight idea.
>Of course, it may be wrong, but so what?  :)
>

Someone posted recently that one of the members of King's X (Ty, I
think) is on record as saying the song is about a former manager (as I
recall) of the band.  That's all I remember about the post, though.

John
From: trw@spl1.spl.loral.com (Tim R Witort)
Subject: Re: Susan Ashton & "No Compromise"
Organization: Loral Software Productivity Laboratory
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 21:07:38 GMT

In article <87195@netnews.upenn.edu>, crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Lauren L. Crawford) writes:
|> Has anyone heard Susan Ashton's new release, "Angels of Mercy"?
|> What did you think of it?  I heard her first one and thought a couple
|> of songs showed a lot of promise but the rest was eh.  Is this one
|> any better?  Seems like she has loads of potential.

   I picked up the AoM CD a month or two ago and like it pretty much.
It is definitely a different style than ABtW - a little more country-ish.
I prefer ABtW to AoM - it seems a little spicier. Both are good though.

|> Lauren Crawford 

-- Tim
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: u9264442@cc.uow.edu.au (Andrew William Easton)
Subject: Re: Phil Collins- talking to Jesus
Organization: University Of Wollongong
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 92 03:07:51 GMT


	"...and I can't tell the difference between ABC news, Hill Street
Blues, and a preacher on the Old Time Gospel Hour, stealin' money from the
sick, and the old. Well the God I believe in isn't short of cash, mister!"

					- Bono, Bullet The Blue Sky.

Just a sentiment on the topic that I agree with. Now I've gotten that off my
chest, goodbye.

The Bearded One..... 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| u9264442@wampyr.cc.uow.edu.au | "I've had enough of Irish Americans who... |
| 				| talk about the resistance, the revolution  |
| You've all seen a disclaimer  | back home, and the glory of the revolution,|
| before. Mine's the same.      | and the glory of dyin' for the revolution. |
|				| _FUCK_ THE REVOLUTION!!!"  	- Bono       |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: djn20624@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Danielson)
Subject: U2's denomination
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 17:06:38 GMT

	I know this probably been discussed before, but considering I just 
plopped down $30 to see U2, I have a couple of curious questions :

	What denomination are the members?

	What are their religious beliefs?

	Do most (or a lot) of their songs have references or symbolic
	of God and Christ (I can think of a few that don't mention God
	specifically but may be talking about Him)?

	(Very judgement statement here) Are they devoted, moral Christians, or
	were they just born Catholic/Protestant/Whatever and sing a song or 
	two about God?

	How did 'The Edge' get his nickname (not super serious question but
	oh well)?

	Why is Bono wearing all that leather now a days; It's hot outside?



Thanks,
   Dan.

djn20624@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu

Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: dmaxwell@auc.trw.com (Doug Maxwell)
Subject: Re: MWS Change Your World (NOW FOR SALE)
Reply-To: dmaxwell@dora.UUCP (Doug Maxwell)
Organization: TRW Denver Operations
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 00:31:00 GMT

In article <cee1.714939005@Isis.MsState.Edu> cee1@ra.msstate.edu (Charles Evans) writes:
>However one "bug" .. first ever I have found. For those who have bought the
>tape/CD and those who will, listen to the song "Out of This World" and
>the lyrics sheet says after the Chorus the second time there should be this:

I've actually found differences between the actual music and the printed lyrics
many times.  Can't name any off the top of my head, but they're out there.
I kind of enjoy finding these "bugs."  Sort of a novelty, I guess :)


-- 
|Douglas J. Maxwell dmaxwell@dora.auc.trw.com  |   *                         |
|TRW Denver Operations                         | *****                       |
|16201 Centretech Pky / Aurora, CO  80011      |   *                         |
|Voice:  303.360.4013  FAX:  303.360.4133      |   *  Doing my best for Him. |
From: rhm@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Bob Miller)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 19:12:07 GMT
Subject: Re: (TANGENT) Re: The Five Points of Fundamentalism
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian

My opinion of BJU was formed two decades ago. The dating/intemarriage regs
were well known and documented. A friend of mine went there and also said 
that music and literature was strictly regulated and you needed the dean's
approval to go on a date ;-)

Most telling for me was a conversation with a couple of men who disagreed
with the party line on a minor point of theology (predestination). They were
told to sign an affadavit renouncing their views or be denied graduation or
any transfer of their academic credit!!!!

They followed their principles and walked away fron their degrees.

Bob (wonder what I'd have done) Miller
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: amoral music needs definition
From: aspringman@eagle.wesleyan.edu
Date: 2 Sep 92 15:40:22 EDT
Organization: Wesleyan University

Howdy,


	Cheer up, God loves you!

	Now, about the morality of music, there is a problem with this thread.
I share this to free us from deadlock.

	"Music" is not well defined in our discussion.  On one side we have
those who say music is amoral.  These people (most of them) are defining
"music" as "sounds, patterns of air movement, a medium."  On the other side we
have those who say music is moral and/or immoral.  These people tend to define
"music" in such a way as to include composition, performance, and listening, ie
the actions involved in music.

	I would say that, considering that both parties are taking about
different things, both parties are correct.  

	I'd be much more interested in a discussion of the ethics of music
making and music appreciating.  What I mean is...let's answer questions like...

  	"Plato wrote in _The_Republic_ that certain modes of music are
good for certain social situations and bad for others.  Thus, it would be the
moral responsibility of those controling the music (the government, the
musician, the stereo owner, the radio station) to match the modes to the
situations.  What are the different modes/forms of music that are most
appropriate for each general social situation in OUR society?"

	In fact, I'd like that question to be asked so much that I'll ask it.
How 'bout it?

	In Him Who is our Resurrection,

	Andrew Springman
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: gt6223b@prism.gatech.EDU (Jerry B. Ray)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: U2's denomination
Date: 2 Sep 92 18:49:40 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

In article <1992Sep2.012945.21637@auc.trw.com> dmaxwell@dora.UUCP (Doug Maxwell) writes:
>In article <67434@hydra.gatech.EDU> I write:
>>
>>So just turn you offensometer way down, and just accept the show for what
>>it is-rock and roll.
>
>As Christians, can we really do that?  Can we say that, "Well most of it
>is ok, so it must be right."  I don't believe that we can. 
>

Well, i think you miss my point.  If being around lots of non-Christians 
offends you, don't go.  If your virgin ears can't stand to hear 'dirty words,'
don't go.  If the consumption of alcohol offends you, don't go.  If you
want to hear great rock and roll, go.  If you're a big U2 fan, go.  If you
want to take part in a truly uplifting concert (at least for me), then go.

I was making no call whatsoever about what percentage of the show was 
'acceptible' and what wasn't.  It's not a church service, it's a rock and
roll concert.  If you can't handle that then don't go.  But if the stuff
that goes on at this particular concert offends you, then you'd better 
keep yourself locked inside your safe little bubble and never venture out
into the real world.

JRjr

-- 
'Hear the tale of a fallen people, destined to wander their broken land.
Their eyes are vacant, full of empty meaning, and what they're missing they
just don't understand.  Beyond the dark horizon, out where the people are
crying, a Morningstar will be rising, rising to show us the way...' Whiteheart
From: crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Lauren L. Crawford)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: TANGENT: Re: Is music amoral??
Date: 2 Sep 92 18:00:59 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <1992Sep2.164521.2488@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> noel@crs.cl.msu.edu.UUCP (Noel Estabrook) writes:
>
>Hmm. so tell what would a GOOD, non-evil use of a rack be?
>>

1.	Hang coats on it.
2.	Hang plants from it.
3.	Use it as a jungle gym.
4.	Put a plaque on it and place it in a park or museum as a
	reminder of past atrocities and why we shouldn't repeat them.
5.	Hang it in a church or wear it around your neck (only applicable
	if the rack is in the shape of a cross).



-- 
Lauren Crawford  //  crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu

I believe we are on the irreversible trend toward more freedom and
democracy -- but that could change.   -- J. Danforth Quayle  
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: mjenkins@alfred.carleton.ca (Michael Jenkinson)
Subject: Re: TANGENT: Re: Is music amoral??
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 17:36:17 GMT

In <1992Sep2.164521.2488@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> noel@crs.cl.msu.edu (Noel Estabrook) writes:

>In article <1992Sep1.210419.670@news.cs.brandeis.edu> aaron@binah.cc.brandeis.edu writes:
>>The evil is in the action of burning the baby with cigarettes.  More
>>specifically, it is in the action of the person burning the baby with
>>cigarettes.  If the same sound can be created by clever programming of the
>>synth, the sound is not evil.  Since I don't know where the sound came from
>>(I would assume it was artificial if I actually heard it), I cannot say
>>the sound itself is evil.  Once again, THINGS cannot be given the character-
>>istics of people.
>>
>>>  Examples of the second kind would be an instrument of torture, such as a 
>>>rack, or perhaps a statue of Moloch, complete with uplifted hands designed
>>>for people to pan-fry their babies in...
>>
>>There is nothing evil in the rack itself; the evil is in the people who use
>>the thing to torture others.  It is a subtle difference but quite significant.

>Hmm. so tell what would a GOOD, non-evil use of a rack be?

Uhh...makes perfect julienne fries in only seconds! :)  

(Oops, sorry, sarcasm discussion is the next message!)

Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: tll6551@zeus.tamu.edu (Scholar and Fool)
Subject: I'm back!
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Fool's Gold Enterprises
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 04:06:00 GMT

ok, boys and girls! I'm back from a summer of relaxation and and barbed-
wire fence repair, and I'm ready to rumble with the best on the ol' Amy
topic! (just kidding.... :)

Somewhere in there I managed to get on up to the little town of Bushnell,
Illinois, for my second stint at Cornerstone, and it was quite excellent,
if I do say so myself. 

Hopefully I'll have a radio show here again, but who knows, right?
Anyway....lots of good stuff happening in the alternative music scenes
(of which I am interested). No, I don't really get into contemporary or
praise. *look of alarm, surprise, and hidden digust by some audience
members is expected at this moment*

Anyways, I'm back from the summer. 'Re-Howdy!' to all the ol' folks that
know me, and a hearty 'Greetings, greetings!' to all the new folk who
don't (and perhaps are mighty proud of that fact). 

So, until something hops up on this here bespackled contraption that I
care to loosen my vocal chords on, I'll merely be content to sit back and
watch with subdued amusement. Or maybe I'll just start talking about 
something myself....

Oh...anyone know if T. Bone Burnett's album....oh, gee......I forgot the
name......something "Decay".....anyway...if it's any good? I can get it
for about $7 on CD and was wondering if it was worth it.....

that's all for now. Until next time......

$%&^%$&($%^&@$#%!@#%^&#$%*^%__!_$%^*$#%^@#$%^@#&%#$^%*@$%^@#%&#$%^*#$%^&#$%$%
@  (%&    *$@    )*&%&(  # /_/\/\  |    Terry Leifeste, Scholar and Fool    $
&  $#% #& (&* (@ $%^$@*  & \_\  /  | TLL6551@ZEUS.TAMU.EDU  TLL6551@TAMZEUS &
#  ($%    #$*    @#*     @ /_/  \  |----------------------------------------@
*  @#$*$%&*$@%^@&#%*()@  * \_\/\ \ | Act as if there is some snappy, witty, %
(  @#$^$*%^#$%&#$*       %    \_\/ |  most amusing quote here. Thank you.   $
$%&^*$%&$#%^@$%&#%^*#%^@#$#%&^*$%&)($#&@#%$^&#$^*($^$*(V3.2)*#@)!%^*$#%^*$%@&
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian