HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 18:57:39 EST
From: Tim Bieling <QAA@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: Gays in the military
 <billc.1226.722265593@housing.msstate.edu>

[Since this is being posted to netnews, I hope the list owners will
allow it to be forwarded to the list - thanks]

In article <billc.1226.722265593@housing.msstate.edu>, billc@housing.msstate.edu
(Bill Chapman) says:
>
>[...]
>For a man to feel love for a woman is a good thing, unless that man happens
>to be married to another woman.  Even if it is granted that homosexual
>attractions are biologically determined, these attractions must be
>controlled in the same way that the married man's lusts must be.  "The
>fruit of the spirit is ..." (among other things) "...self control."

I agree entirely with the above paragraph but civil law doesn't allow me
to marry the man I love.  We plan to go ahead with some sort of ceremony
anyway and ultimately have to draw up mutual legal agreements (costing
us big $$) which would mimic the assumed legal rights of a married couple.

An interesting aside - this will be the first year which I won't be
with my parents for Christmas/New Year's - I'll be with my lover instead.
My point?  At 30 years old I'm still "mom's little helper" - and this
will be the first year when I feel it's more important to be with the
man I love.

As a final thought - to those of you who see our relationship as "bad,
sinful, etc" you simply don't understand.  I do not want to start another
flame infested war about homosexuality - let's just agree that we differ
on our opinions.

Comments welcome...

(Private e-mail to: bieling@arch.psu.edu)

-Tim
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Date:         Thu, 19 Nov 1992 12:24:01 CST
From:         Jesse <NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Now ... Just what ARE Polemics?
              19 Nov 1992 17:44:50 GMT from <billc@HOUSING.MSSTATE.EDU>

Dear Bill ;

Question :

"Why BE on Christia if TRUTH, its promulgation, and application, are NOT our
"Prime Directive"?
I am puzzled ... really.  Our LOVE for one another ... our UNITY with one
another are all defined within the perameters of the Word of God.
Why is it so wrong to want to see the issuing of Truth as one's motive for
wanting to be on Christia?  Does not Truth set us free?

Bill, I am not going to try to put you on the spot, but I really would like
some others to come up with real evidence of my alleged pugnaciousness.
I am not trying to evade any possible culpability here.  I am really NOT
convinced as to their charges.
Can they cite some cases and let me see what they are referring to?


Jesse Carnes
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 20 Nov 1992 14:23:36 CST
Comments:     Answering received message
From:         THERESA BLACKWELL <TBLACKWL@USMCP6.BITNET>
Subject:      ugh! ....

Dear Jesus: Please, please be with this family that has lost the
little two-year-old boy.
This is definately not too good.  I ask humbly that you comfort
the parents of this child, and assure them of your saving and
matchless Grace.
Thank you Lord!
Theresa

 * <TBLACKWL@USMCP6.BITNET>
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 17 Nov 1992 15:43:00 CDT
From:         "Love does not subtract, it multiplies." <HOLZMAN@FNAL.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Ozzy Osbourne

<This isn't meant as a flame, but if the inference is that Ozzy is
<"religious" or a Christian...I don't think so.

Ozzy has been Christian his entire life, and has never claimed otherwise.

Dan
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Date:         Sat, 21 Nov 1992 08:26:17 EST
From:         Fayaz Qureshi <fqureshi@VTSSI.VT.EDU>
Subject:      The True Word of Allah

Bismillah ir Rehamn ur Raheem.
In the name of Allah the Most Benificient, Most Merciful.



HI to all of you who have written about the Koran and have replied to my
message 'The True Word of Allah'.
I am just a normal guy studying in college and my knowledge about Islam is
extremely limited -- so limited that I can't even imagine managing to
explain it's true greatness to you guys.  But I am sure that what I know
is quite enough to show you guys how ignorant you are and how little
knowledge you guys have about this great religion.  But unfortunately I am
going out of town for a couple of days and won't be back till Monday.
So I hope that you guys can sit tight and wait for my reply which is gonna
shake you up.  Unitl then .........


La illaha il Allah Mohammad ur Rasool Allah.
Verily, there is only one God and Mohammad is the Last Prophet of God.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 16 Nov 1992 12:26:00 EDT
From:         Leo W <Leo_W@QM.CIRCA.UFL.EDU>
Subject:      Scripturette 11/16

"The eye is a light for the body.  If your eyes are good, then your whole body
will be full of light.  But if your eyes are evil, then your whole body will be
full of darkness.  And if the only light you have is really darkness, then you
have the worst darkness" (Matthew 6:22,23).

"If you use your mouth to say, "Jesus is Lord," and if you believe in your
heart that God raised Jesus from death, then you will be saved.  We believe
with our hearts, and so we are made right with God.  And we use our mouths to
say that we believe, and so we are saved" (Romans 10:9,10).

"He has made you able to have all that he has prepared for his people who live
in the light.  God made us free from the power of darkness, and he brought us
into the kingdom of his dear Son" (Colossians 1:12,13).

Yours in Christ Jesus,
Leo

Scriptures quoted from the International Children's Bible (ICB), New Century
Version, copyright 1986, 1988 by Word Publishing, Dallas, Texas 75039.  Used by
permission.
From: gjm11@cus.cam.ac.uk (G.J. McCaughan)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: I, Jesse made an error on Christia
Date: 18 Nov 92 00:39:57 GMT
Organization: U of Cambridge, England

In article <CHRISTIA%92111707163451@ASUACAD.BITNET> Jesse Carnes <NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET> writes:

>The one thread that connects ALL true believers is the Saving Work of Jesus
>Christ as sin substitute and His Resurrection.
>The Gospel, part of the Word of God, is the ONE common thread, as John states
>in 1 John that UNITES Christians.
>
>Some believers never live to be physically baptized, but all TRUE believers
>live to be "baptized" by the preached Word of God and they ALL believe the
>Gospel.
>
>The Baptism that unites all believers is NOT one of water, but entrance into
>the Word of God.  We all have the same Saving Word of Faith.

As you might have guessed, I wasn't really trying to suggest that immersion
in water causes salvation. I stand by my claim that our unity goes deeper
than our doctrine, and I disagree with your reading of 1 John. I see how you
get the idea from that book, but note verses like 1:6-7; 3:10; 3:24; 4:7.

It is true that we are united by the Gospel. But I think our unity comes
from the things that the doctrines describe, rather than from the doctrine
itself.

I don't particularly want to argue this one, unless you are claiming that
we are under no obligation to live in harmony and unity with those of our
brothers and sisters who have doctrinal differences with us, which I hope
is not the case.

-- 
Gareth McCaughan     Dept. of Pure Mathematics & Mathematical Statistics,
gjm11@cus.cam.ac.uk  Cambridge University, England.    [Research student]
From: 9120092@ul.ie
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: The Gospel
Date: 19 Nov 92 21:19:51 GMT
Organization: University of Limerick, Ireland

Essentially there is not much wrong biblically with the doctrines of the 
Catholic Church, unfortunately most people in the church are not aware of,
or choose to ignore the "Heirarchy of Truths".
This Heirarchy sets a priority on what members of the church should beleive,
unfortunately those who minister in the church have neglected this to some
degree and have assigned their own priorities to what ever they like to do.
For example if a particular parish groups really enjoys Pilgrimmages then they
set a high priority to it, then after some time the custom of pilgrimmages is
burned into the members and it becomes more of a religious thing then anything
else. That's one of the problems with people in general we get religious too
easily. James Joyce ( who ? ) used to go to mass a lot, not for any devotion
to God but just to witness the ceremony and the pomp. Many of us are like
that.
The marvelous thing is that God always forgives us when we confess our sins!
In response to the E-mail I've received ( and I have received lots ), I'm
currently doing loads of projects ( infact I should be doing one now, that's
why I came into the college tonight). On top of that I've got exams in 2 weeks
so I'm not leaving anything to the last minute. So don't get offended if I don't
reply.
BTW Today's date is 19/11/1992, when do you get to read this message in the US?

         Time I got back, I can hear the Vax calling my name, 
			God bless to one and all.

			Peter

Peter O'Brien, 9120092@ul.ie, Computer Systems, University of Limerick, Ireland.
From: exudtn@exu.ericsson.se (Derek Nelson, xt-dL)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re:      Being gay is offensive?
Date: 20 Nov 92 17:49:02 GMT
Reply-To: exudtn@exu.ericsson.se
Organization: Ericsson Network Systems, Inc.
X-Disclaimer: This article was posted by a user at Ericsson.
              Any opinions expressed are strictly those of the
              user and not necessarily those of Ericsson.

In article 92112008354321@ASUACAD.BITNET,        
 JLong <JLONG@UA1VM.BITNET> () writes:
>There was Christians before there were Gays, Atheist, and ungodly people.
           ^^^^ a little grammar, please.
Besides this statement being .. uhhh errr.. wrong the tense is incorrect. :-)
There were not Christians before Gays, Atheist and ungodly people.  
These types of people existed before Christ which is why the Old 
Testament  talks about 'em.

> The reason for all those things you mentioned are going
>on is because the devil has those people's mind.  They just need to repent.

I agree that  satan is a powerful enemy and corrupts many.  It is, IMHO,
a little naive to say that people just need to repent.  They need the tools
to understand God's love and the Holy Spirit to convict their hearts of
their sin. Help them.  Give them the tools.

> Being gay is wrong.  I can tell them what is right and
>go on.  I have done my part.

It has been my experience that TELLING somebody that they are wrong
is not going to change them or even give you the remote chance
of helping them. It would be like me telling you that your English
is terrible.  Which BTW it is.  Gee, did that motivate you to
learn English better? I think not.  You probably are mad at
me and the gays you've TOLD are mad at you. Think about it.

Derek
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
From: sschaff@roc.SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Stephen F. Schaffner)
Subject: Re:      Re: Now ... Just what ARE Polemics?
Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 19:43:56 GMT

In article <CHRISTIA%92111907324462@ASUACAD.BITNET>,         
Jesse Carnes <NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET> writes [in response to a long, thoughtful 
posting from Bill Chapman]

|> Dear Bill Chapman et al. ;
|> 
|> A question for you :  "Do you consider "polemics" as uncharitable because they
|> are inherently so, OR because mayby you equate your bad EXPERIENCE with Greg
|> as the quintessence of polemics?"
|> 
|> Could Greg have been uncharitable HIMSELF, without necessarily proving that
|> polemics themselves are unfit for Christians?

Jesse, I'm afraid you're not listening to what all of these people are telling 
you.  It's not about the definition of polemical, or whether truth and logic 
are good things, or about proving anything.  It's about you, and the effect 
your style has on people.  I know you don't intend to, but in many readers' minds 
you sometimes come across as uncharitable and arrogant; when your response to a 
heart-felt request that you examine your own behaviour is to demand yet another 
definition, you only reinforce that impression.  What they're saying to you is
that, right now, among these readers, your style is obscuring your message and 
may be hurting the cause of Christ.  That's all.

-- 
Steve Schaffner        sschaff@unixhub.slac.stanford.edu
	The opinions expressed may be mine, and may not be those of SLAC, 
Stanford University, or the DOE.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Sat, 21 Nov 1992 19:48:22 CST
From:         William Jordan <JORDAN@LATECH.BITNET>
Subject:      Travel Prayer Request

I would ask for prayer for our family's Thanksgiving travel plans.  We
will drive away tomorrow morning to spend the holidays with my wife's family
in northern Ohio.  It is a two-day, 1000 mile (one way) trip.

I will be setting nomail until we return.

In Christ, Bill

William M. Jordan            Voice       (318) 257-4304
Mechanical & Industrial      FAX         (318) 257-2562
     Engineering Dept.       Bitnet      jordan@latech.bitnet
Louisiana Tech University    Internet    jordan@engr.latech.edu
Ruston, LA 71272
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 20 Nov 1992 03:25:29 -0500
From:         STUHARMA@EKU.BITNET
Subject:      Re: The Gospel

Peter,
        I am new to the list, and received your message this evening,
19/11/92.  Very interesting.  I liked it.  Good luck on the exams!

                                God bless
                                Robert

Robert E. Harman, STUHARMA@EKU
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 19 Nov 1992 17:10:00 CDT
From:         "Love does not subtract, it multiplies." <HOLZMAN@FNAL.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Gays in the military

<Why would gay people want to be in the military anyway?

All the same reasons that hets want to be in.

<Why should we support them in their efforts if the Bible condemns it?

Where does the Bible forbid gays to serve in the military?

Dan
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 23 Nov 1992 08:50:33 CST
From:         Tom Brewer <NOTTMB@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Tom's "question reply"

Lonnie:

Your question was answered. Read the post. Then read the chapter in context.

Tom
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 18 Nov 1992 11:07:17 EST
From:         "SHELBY A. CROSS" <LIBSAC@EMUVM1.BITNET>
Subject:      REPLY-PRAYER REQUEST-LIZ

Hi Liz,

I'll  be praying  for the  job  that your  husband applied  for that  the
Lord's will be done.

Dear Heavenly Father,

We lift up  to Liz's husband and ask  that you lead and guide  him in the
direction  that You  would like  to see  him take.  Father we  are asking
that  Your  will be  done  in  Jesus Name  and  that  you give  him  Your
wisdom, understanding,  and direction in  what You  would have him  to do
in this area.  In Jesus Name we pray.  Amen.

Your sister in Christ,

Shelby--
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Date:         Mon, 23 Nov 1992 09:44:13 CST
From:         Tom Brewer <NOTTMB@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Salmon Rushdie etc.

Someone sent me a private email with the following question:

> I guess my only question would be this:  is ridicule "speaking the truth
> in love"?

I guess my only answer would be this:  No, ridicule is not "speaking the
truth in love."

To all on Christia, my apology for the original. I will try to reserve my
critiques of religion etc. to comments about doctrine and how it misses
the mark when judged by the Bible. As with other arguments about religion,
my beef is not with the people, but with the system. I'll try to be more
careful in the future.

Tom Brewer
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From: gjm11@cus.cam.ac.uk (G.J. McCaughan)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re:      Re: Defining `Free Will'
Date: 17 Nov 92 01:56:30 GMT
Organization: U of Cambridge, England

In article <CHRISTIA%92111607240376@ASUACAD.BITNET>,         Jesse Carnes <NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET> writes:

> If I asserted that you were patronizing, could you possibly send that blurb
> BACK to me ... I constantly "clear" my records due to a limited amount of
> space for this sort of thing on our mainframe, at least for me.

You didn't assert that I'm patronizing. I said that some of your posts came
across as patronizing, and when asked to give examples I did so.

> Gareth ... Plleeeease sir, just lighten up a bit ... do you have ANY sense
> of humour?  Do not be so bloomin' serioius 'bout it all.

I do have a sense of humour. I don't try to inject humour into every discussion,
because some things simply are not funny. I shan't give examples, because it
would probably just start up the same old arguments again, which would be very
unproductive...

Besides, humour (apart from the very most blatant) doesn't come across well
by computer; I try to avoid irony/sarcasm and such in this sort of context
because it's too easily misinterpreted.

Incidentally, why do you think I have no sense of humour? (Please reply by
e-mail; this is clearly of no interest to the rest of CHRISTIA.)

> When I discuss Doctrine, I am serious ... but my ATTITUDE needs also to have
> a light character about it as well.
> 
> Just be patient wi' me ... we are not here to bite you, so don't be
> intimidated.

I'm not intimidated, but thanks for your concern.

-- 
Gareth McCaughan     Dept. of Pure Mathematics & Mathematical Statistics,
gjm11@cus.cam.ac.uk  Cambridge University, England.    [Research student]
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 17 Nov 1992 14:21:51 EST
From:         "Marissa Ratcliff" <MRATCLIF@UGA.BITNET>
Subject:      RECENT POSTINGS

Dear Members of CHRISTIA:

   I have read several recent postings with a heavy heart; I think you all know
 which ones I speak of.  I respect everyone who posts on this list and have lea
rned much from its discussions.  However, I must respond to some of these "disc
ussions."

I am a former Catholic.  Many of my disagreements with the Church have to do wi
th form of worship and what I consider a lack of instruction on the part of the
 priests.  I come from an area of Louisiana that is predominately Catholic.  My
 parents and grandparents all were taught to never question the priest and to
read the Bible on their own was useless and insulting to the authority of the p
riest.  This is NOT offical doctrine or policy of the RC church, but it was tau
ght and believed by many.  That and many other reasons contributed to most of m
y family and several others leaving the church.

However, there is NO conspiracy to hide anything from RC members.  It is habit
in the people and fear of losing authority in the priests that cause ignorance
to continue.  One good example is this:   Many RCs believe that almost everyone
 ends up in Purgatory, saved or not.  Noone really ever ends up in Hell.  This
is not what the RC church believes, but it was a teaching encouraged by priests
 who did not want their congregation to stop coming to church.  Hell is a very
unpopular doctrine and people do not want to hear it.

While Eric found a wonderful relationship with Jesus by joining the RC church,
I was not able to have one until I left.  However, I am NOT anti-Catholic, nor
would I ever insult Eric for his beliefs.  Which leads me to this point:

Eric and Gareth (plus a few more) have been much maligned on this list by other
 posters.  Even after Stephen has asked them to stop, the postings continue to
sound vaguely sarcastic and patronizing.  This has got to stop!  The following
passage has more to do with eating practices than e-mail discussions, I think i
t is appropriate:

"So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.  Let us not ther
efore judge one another anymore; but judge this rather, that no man put a stumb
lingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way."

Read all of Romans 14 for the full context.

I love you all,


Marissa F. Ratcliff                 Document Delivery
University of GA                    Science Library
Athens, GA
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Date:         Sun, 22 Nov 1992 08:53:18 -0600
From:         Tim Rolfe <rolfe@DSUVAX.DSU.EDU>
Subject:      Bandwidth apologies

Sorry about the double hit on a 55-line item.  I guess I now know that
items posted as to a newsgroup don't disappear; they just drop into
Limbo for an indeterminate length of time.  (Hmmm --- but they DO get
out, as against the standard RCC Limbo --- which itself provides an
interesting example of the development of doctrine with the Church.)
--
                                              --- Tim Rolfe
                                           rolfe@dsuvax.dsu.edu
                                            ROLFE@SDNET.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
From: iain@ee.ryerson.ca (Iain Campbell)
Subject: Thankfulness Month 
Organization: Ryerson Polytechnical Institute, Toronto
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 15:51:09 GMT

Thanks to God !!!

We have a contractor in our fellowship who has been in real financial
trouble due to the recession.  He had done work for a company who had
not paid him due to a legal wrangle over a receivership situation.
He got paid IN FULL this past week, and he and his wife sat down and 
wrote cheques to pay $15,000 (no typo, that's $15,000 !!) in unpaid 
bills.

Now is that God or what ???!!!

Hallelujah !!

Dear Lord, we thank you and praise you that you have promised to be our 
provider, and we lift up those of our brethren who are suffering
financially in these current times.  We ask that you would provide for
their needs in miraculous ways, so that your name would be 
glorified and your witness strengthened.  Amen.

Iain
 
    SS  III   GG                                               SS  III   GG
   S     I   G      iain@ee.ryerson.ca       < now showing    S     I   G
    SS   I  G  GGG  iain@acsserv1.ryerson.ca < coming soon     SS   I  G  GGG
..    S  I   G  G                                          ..    S  I   G  G
..  SS  III   GG                                           ..  SS  III   GG
                                                           


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Organization: Emory University - Atlanta, Georgia, USA
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 18 Nov 1992 10:15:59 EST
From:         "SHELBY A. CROSS" <LIBSAC@EMUVM1.BITNET>
Subject: RE: PAT LOGAR

Dear Bernice,

I am  very sorry to hear  about her passing,  but we will be  praying for
her family.

Dear Heavenly Father,

We ask you to  engulf Pat's family with your loving  Holy Spirit and give
them peace  and comfort right now  in this difficult time.  We never have
words that  are suitably designed  for this time  in one's life,  but one
thing  we can  be sure  of is  that You  have everyithing  taken care  of
Father, and for this, when we are  so inadequate, You give us the ability
to go  on. Thank  You Father  for never  leaving us  or forsaking  us. In
Jesus Name we pray.  Amen.

Your sister in Christ,

Shelby--