From: adams@spss.com (Steve Adams)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion,talk.religion.misc,alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Christian Pro-Choicers
Date: 8 Jan 93 14:36:10 GMT
Organization: SPSS Inc.

forgach@noao.edu (Suzanne Forgach) writes:

>From article by chrisl@stpaul.gov (Chris A Lyman):
>> hudson@athena.cs.uga.edu (Paul Hudson Jr) writes:
>> 
>>> It is possible for genuine Christians to be wrong about things, and there
>>> are only two sides to this issue.  
>> 
>> Hey, Steve Adams, Elizabeth Bartley and I (and others) are Genuine
>> Christians[tm].  We all support choice and we don't think we're wrong. 
>> Would you care to enlighten us?
>
>Can you honestly picture Jesus Christ helping some woman abort a child
>that His beloved Father is in the active process of knitting together?
>
>It would be completely absurd.

Suzanne...that's not the point.  Please read through what I put below, and let 
me explain how it works, at least for me...this is from some email I exchanged 
with Peter Nyikos, and some from a posting to the net, but only my writing is 
here, not Peter's or anyone elses:

From a net posting:

Yes.  I oppose abortion.  I *personally* believe abortion to be wrong, and
to be killing unborn children.  That view is based PURELY on religious
belief, and my understanding of the process and meaning of conception in
light of my Christian  belief.  What I *REFUSE* to do is impose that view
on any other person.  Our system of government is NOT meant to be
religious, and is meant to protect the *INDIVIDUAL* rights of each person,
as defined under our Constitution.  Under our laws, a fetus is NOT a
person.

I have said over and over again that I would in each and every case counsel
against abortion, except when the mother's life was in danger, or in cases
of rape and incest.  Even in the last two, I would personally have a
difficult time recomending abortion.

That said, abortion is legal, and is *A* responsible action in response to
an unwanted pregnancy.  As such, since I am commanded by the Bible to
follow the laws passed by the leaders of this country, I follow the laws.
I truly believe that it is improper to enforce my version of morality on
society.  As such, although I have religious beliefs about such issues as
abortion, gay rights, etc, etc, my position is that I will NEVER impose
such rules on society, and that I will treat each and every person as an
equal and with compassion.  The only people who need to be concerned about
my moral beliefs are my family and my church.

From email to Peter:

You must have seen by now, because I have said it on numerous occasions,
that I personally object to abortion.  I am anti-abortion, but pro-choice.
Peter, we agree on the fundamental issue here - abortion is wrong.  BUT, my
rationale for it being wrong is SOLEY religious, and as such, since I
believe the Founding Fathers set up a good system, won't impose my
religious beliefs on any other person (except, perhaps, my kids, but when
they get old enough, they can tell the old man to jump in a lake).

From another email to Peter:

In most respects, my Christian beliefs are clear and straight forward.  A
search for truth being the impetus.  I divorce my political and religious
views nearly 100%, mostly because I object to using religion as an axe to
make law.  I beleive too much in personal liberty, and realize that we live
in a secular nation that I believe should be governed to provide the
maximum individual liberty possible.

And one more from email to Peter:

Now, from a purely political point of view, it is not within my rights to
impose my particular set of morals or religious views on the rest of
society.  The American social compact was intended to allow for diversity
and religious freedom.  As such, it is no more right for Christians to
demand blue laws as it is for Jews to demand that pork be illegal or
Muslims to demand that veils be worn by all women.

Remember who is making the choice, here, too.  If the person making the
choice is not bound against it by personal moral principles, then it may
well be a responsible choice.  I personally am bound against it.  As is my
wife.  But that doesn't bind my neighbor....

Having that position, I am constrained to keep my beliefs within the
boundries of the Constitution and the basic intent of the Founding Fathers.
The Constitution provides a set of protections for all citizens, defined as
those "born or naturalized."  Unfortunately, under our system, the fetus
doesn't meet the requirement.

Since the fetus does not have full legal rights under the Constitution, and
I believe that there is a basic right to privacy, that can be enforced

 -Steve
--
  The opinions expressed above are those of the author and not SPSS, Inc.
                         -------------------
   adams@spss.com                                  Phone: (312) 329-3522
   Steve Adams        "Space-age cybernomad"       Fax:   (312) 329-3558
Newsgroups: talk.abortion