HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: crs@beta.lanl.gov (Charlie Sorsby)
Subject: Re: The Great Lab Debate
Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 19:20:09 GMT

In article <1684DA498.X005CB@tamvm1.tamu.edu> X005CB@tamvm1.tamu.edu (Chris Barnes) writes:
= >
= hunter to keep up.  Pointers require some amount (Charlie is no
= doubt a better expert here than me) such as backing, how far to range,
= steadyness, etc., but no amount of training will help a pointer with
= a bad nose.  Retrievers, on the other hand, require a tremendous
= amount of training in order to bring out the abilities they are born
= with (assuming they are born with some).  They (for example), must

Thanks, Chris...

I tried to post a similar followup several days ago but the idiot
port that I'm connected to went crazy after I'd typed in a lot of
text saying essentially what you said here.  My guess is that
pointing dogs and retrievers may require similar amounts of
training but for different things.

I couldn't agree more that the big difference between a good bird
dog (of either your kind or mine) and an obedience dog is purely in
the commands that they obey and the things that they are expected
to do.  You use "strict heel" and a remote "sit" as excellent
examples.  For pointing dogs, steadiness to wing and shot fill the
bill.  Personally, I don't too much care if my dog heels a little
ahead of me--actually, it makes her easier to see.  I *do* care if
she breaks point on the flush or the shot just as you care if your
retriever is a pain in the blind or won't sit to whistle at
whatever range.  Sounds to me that some of the obedience people
think that if it isn't spelled out in the rules for the obedience
ring, it isn't obedience.

I also agree about the hyperness thing...  Kate's a
lap-dog/couch-potato at home but take her where there's a
possibilty of hunting and she is ready to go through the side of
the car.  There's a time and place for hyper and a good bird dog
knows just when and where.

As to field trials, they have about as much to do with hunting as
trap shooting has--both have hunting origins but have become
stylized to the point that they are strictly their own thing now.
(I speak, of course, of pointing-dog field trials, for I know
little about those for retrievers.)


-- 
Best,

Charlie "Older than dirt" Sorsby				"I'm the NRA!"
	  crs@lanl.gov
From: blt@elkie.Eng.Sun.COM (Billy Tinsley)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Rescue Elkhound
Date: 31 Aug 1992 01:14:07 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Distribution: ba
Reply-To: blt@elkie.Eng.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: elkie

We have a really sweet Norwegian Elkhound looking for a 
home.  The vet esimated she's between 12-24 months old.
She was rescued from the pound on her last day.  Her
prior owner wouldn't pay to get her out.

She's good with kids.
Housebroken.
Spayed.
Well Mannered, light obedience training.

Please contact me via Email or
call Karen Allen @ 415-591-8056 (evenings)


thanks for your understanding.
Billy Tinsley
blt@elkie.Eng.Sun.com
---

Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: fritzz@bud.megatek.uucp (Friedrich Knauss)
Subject: Re: Floppy-eared G. Shep Puppy
Reply-To: megatek!fritzz@uunet.uu.net
Organization: Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 22:40:15 GMT

nardy@llnl.gov (Dominic P. Nardy) writes:
> [description of how to tape ears deleted]
> There is nothing more silly looking than a GSD or any other large breed
>dog with floppy ears when they don't naturally have them. It makes GSD's
                                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>look wimpish and implies that they have poor breeding when it may not be
>the case.

Are you serious? You go to the trouble of artificially supporting
an ear that won't stand on it's own and then try to pass it off
as natural? If the breed standard includes upright ears as a genetic
trait, then "fixing" the phenotype as a puppy hides the genotype from
judges. If you just like having non-floppy ears, then it is silly
to justify splinting them by claiming that it is natural, when in
actuality that dogs ears would be naturally floppy.

Maybe I'm just peeved cause I own mutts.
-- 
-- Bones heal - Chicks dig scars - Pain is temporary - Glory is forever
-- fritzz@megatek.com :wq ZZ QQUIT exitqqq^C^Y^C^C^C^C^C^C^C
--
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: liza@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Liza Miller)
Subject: Re: feeding times (was: New Puppy - Need Advice!!)
Organization: Stanford Univ. Earth Sciences
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 02:01:27 GMT

Another thing to consider in this free feeding debate is that if you have
multiple dogs and you free feed, you won't know if one of your dogs is
"off their food."  This can be a key way to figure out if a dog isn't
feeling well.  I feed my dogs meals because I like to know how much they
are eating. 

--
Liza Lee Miller         My dogs are labradorable!     liza@pangea.stanford.edu
Cibola Labradors            Field * Show * Fun                    415/326-5309
Cibola's Misty Mountain Hop--Hopper                   Mistypoint Kashmir--Kash
Talimar All-Pro At Delby--Niner          Campbellcroft Cibola Rosette -- Rosie
From: jm6@ukc.ac.uk (J.Mitchell)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: ALASKAN MALMUTE     PLEASE HELP
Date: 1 Sep 92 20:29:51 GMT
Organization: Computing Lab, University of Kent at Canterbury, UK.



Hello

	I think I have made up my mind on which dogs I would like to provide
a home for, it's an ALASKAN MALAMUTE. They are so beautiful and to me they are
'real dogs', I am willing to put a lot of time into training it and looking 
after it but I have a few questions specifically about them. So if you have had
one or have one now could you reply to me thank you.

1) What is the minimum daily exercise it will need ( I hope to give it more )?
2) Does it have a tendancy to wreck a room if left inside with nobody around 
	like I have been told the Samoyed does(NO FLAMES PLEASE)?
3) If you were to dispersuade me from taking on this task what would you say?
4) How hard is it to train this breed and do they enjoy learning and playing 
	games ? How well can they do in obedience tests ?
5) How high a fence do I need to stop a dog escaping ?  ( for its own good ! )
6) How much do they moult and when ?
7) Which are more common the wolf grey or the black and white markings ?
8) Is there anything SPECIFIC TO THE BREED that I should look out for which is
	not in the FAQ ?

If you can answer any of these questions from first hand experience I would 
really appreciate it. I have read the only book I have found dedicated to the 
breed and a few others which have a small section in them but they don't asnwer
these questions.
Thanks in advance



JOHN
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: abb@unislc.uucp (Anne Beck)
Subject: Are Newfs Stupid?
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 16:46:03 GMT

> (Just to tie this in, the Leonberger descends from the St. Bernard,
> Great Pyranees(sp?) and Newfoundland, so...) are Newfies stupid?  I
> thought I'd like to have one, but a friend who investigated them said
> they weren't to bright, and then I saw someones .sig that mentioned
> something about "the idiot Newfs"...just wondering...

"the idiot Newfs" is sarcasm!  Newfs are, among their other good qualities,
BRILLIANT.  I have sometimes found myself wishing they weren't quite
so bright:  it makes me feel very stupid!

Newfoundlands are working dogs, and they have to be independent, 
resourceful, and quick thinkers.  People who think they are stupid
mistake their placidity for idiocy.  One of the things that always
surprises people is how FAST my Newfie is when she sees something
that "really" needs to be done.  She can run like a courser when
necessary, and she can learn by observation and deduction.  It's
scary!

Of course, one of their most "brilliant" feats is making people think
they're stupid so they can just lie around and be beautiful!  They're
also absolute geniuses at getting food and affection.

Save your time and money and look further into Newfies.  (And, of course,
as with any breed, there certainly are "dummies," but not too many.  
Good breeders breed for brains.)
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> --kyler
-- 
   Anne Beck			| The difference between difficult
   abb@unislc  sun!unislc!abb   | dogs & vicious human beings is
   Unisys  SLC UT               | that difficult dogs don't rise to 
			        | prominent positions in the community.
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: X005CB@tamvm1.tamu.edu (Chris Barnes)
Subject: Donating a puppy for auction (was Re: Puppy ID collars)
Organization: Texas A&M University
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 13:52:12 GMT

In article <2A9D4F6B.28047@ics.uci.edu>
    tittle@ics.uci.edu (Cindy Tittle Moore) writes:
 
>>BTW:  how do you (cindy & liza) feel about donating pups to organization
>>like DU (ducks unlimited) to sell at auction?
>
>Uninformed comment: If I were a breeder, I wouldn't do it.  I would
>prefer to screen all my buyers personally, and it does not sound like
>you have that option if the puppy is auctioned off.  Sounds
>reprehensible.
>
>Is there more information than this?  What do YOU think?
 
I am undecided.  I would like to support these types of groups
(especially WHAT), but like you, I don't like the idea of not being
able to screen the puppy buyer.  On the other hand, from my experiances
going to these type of banquets (WHAT & DU), the only people that
would really bid on a puppy at such an event are also the people that
are most likely be good owners (although certainly there would be
exceptions).  I know that the person that bought the previously mentione
pup knew both the sire and dam before he bought it, and was familar with
the pedigree.
 
      ----------------------------------------------
Chris Barnes            |
x005cb@tamvm1.tamu.edu  |  Only 5 more days until the start of
(409) 846-3273 (home)   |           hunting season (in Texas)
(409) 845-8454 (work)   |
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: martin@biostat.washington.edu (Don Martin)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: Hunting Abilities: Lab Registration
Summary: A few hard figures
Date: 2 Sep 92 21:12:58 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Sep2.211258.15112
Organization: Biostatistics, School of Public Health, Univ. of Wash.

>
>On the other hand, with over 75,000 Labs registered each year, the potential
>gene pool is HUGE. And Labs still have their share of genetic problems. 
>Limiting breeding to animals that are proven in form and function, as well as
>apparently (if not genetically) sound, doesn't sound so undesireable to me!
>However, I agree that the AKC will never initiate such a requirement. But
>more and more parent (breed) clubs are instituting such programs, and peer
>pressure, if nothing else, is forcing a lot of breeders to rethink the goals
>of their breeding programs.
>
>****************************
>Marget Johnson, Windwagon Newfoundlands
>
I agree, the current gene pool of registered labs is huge. My point
was that if you insisted on some type of hunting credentials, the 
pool would be too small for comfort. I did a little research over
the weekend. Here is a summary:

labs registered in 1991 105876 (in 1990 it was 95766)

Approximate AKC awards and crude ratios:

Confirmation champions       178     0.17%
Field champions               50     0.05%
Amateur field ch.             42     0.04%

Tracking dog                  26     0.02%
TDX                           12     0.01%

Junior hunter                657     0.62%
Senior hunter                222     0.21%
master hunter                154     0.15%

These are extrapolated from 10 issues of the AKC Awards.
vol.11:09 to 12:08 with 11:10 and 11:11 missing. Volume
12 is 1992 so these are the most current.

From these, you can see that abou 5-7 dogs per 1000 get
a hunting award. To require this for registration or
breeding would almost wipe out the breed. This is still
true even if you double or triple the number of awards.

I expect that the idea of requiring an award is doubly
doomed. It is probablable that fewer than 1% of the
owners would be interested and a larger number would
probably be outraged at being told what to do.

The second reason is the AKC. To call the AKC conservative and
slow to change is a gross understatement. As an example, the
Old English Sheepdog Club has been trying to get permission
to tie the hair out of the dogs eyes while showing in obedience.
No way!

I can post the raw data for these rates if anyone is interested.
However, it would take more than order of magnitude changes to 
invalidate the point that an AKC hunting award requirement
for registration is hopeless.

Don Martin
Widdershins Old English Sheepdogs
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: kls4344@ritvax.isc.rit.edu (Person in flux)
Subject: Re: Newfies
Reply-To: kls4344@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 00:42:42 GMT

In article <1992Aug26.201056.25141@thyme.jpl.nasa.gov>, 
hope@thyme.jpl.nasa.gov (Sharon Hope) writes in support of Marget Johnson's
defense of Newfoundlands:

[]

After these testimonies, you've nearly persuaded *ME* to get a Newfoundland!  I
love stories like these!!

Katie
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: liza@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Liza Miller)
Subject: Re: Puppy ID collars
Organization: Stanford Univ. Earth Sciences
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 17:25:39 GMT

I don't think that auctioning off puppies is a good idea.  Mainly because I
think auctions can turn into "impulse-buying" fests and I don't think that
a puppy should EVER be an impulse-purchase.

I think that breeders SHOULD mark their puppies in some way.  It just seems
crazy to me that alot of them don't.


--
Liza Lee Miller         My dogs are labradorable!     liza@pangea.stanford.edu
Cibola Labradors            Field * Show * Fun                    415/326-5309
Cibola's Misty Mountain Hop--Hopper                   Mistypoint Kashmir--Kash
Talimar All-Pro At Delby--Niner          Campbellcroft Cibola Rosette -- Rosie
From: terry@eece.ksu.edu (Terry Hull)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: Question for "guard" type dog owners
Date: 26 Aug 1992 22:13:41 GMT
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: ralph.eece.ksu.edu

rasmussenc@vaxb.gbus.virginia.edu writes:


>Something just occurred to me now that I have a new Doberman puppy, and I 
>was wondering what you all do.    When you go out of town, are you able to 
>have house-sitters or neighbors come to your house to feed your dog(s)?

Background: I have a 4 year old Rottweiler and a 5 month old Rott
puppy, in addition to the Border Collie/Great Pyreneese cross who is
very protective of her house and family.

We have done this several times when we were going for a short trip and could
not take the dogs.  For longer trips, we put the dogs that are not going with
us in a local kennel.  

>If so, do you have to go through certain introduction measures?  

We bring the house-sitters over to meet the dogs ahead of time.  They
usually come over 2 or three times before they are going to come in
while we are away.  Once the dogs know them, there is no problem.  
Note:  I only allow real doggy people to house sit.  It is important
that the people be comfortable with the situation just like it is important
for the dogs to be comfortable.  

>Have you 
>ever had cases where you've had a call from a house-sitter who all of a 
>sudden couldn't get in the house?

Nope.  The only reason one of my dog's friends could not get into the
house would be the dogs were blocking the door trying to be be first
one to get petted.  The story is quite different for strangers.  They
had better stay out.  

--
Terry Hull  -  terry@eece.ksu.edu
Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering, Kansas State University
From: dittwil@bbs1984.chi.il.us (Bill Dittmann)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: Hunting Abilities: Lab Registration
Date: 3 Sep 92 22:20:49 GMT
Organization: Not an Organization

In article <1394@stake.DaytonOH.NCR.COM>, mjohnson@stake.DaytonOH.NCR.COM
(Marget Johnson) writes:
><1992Aug28.185714.7813@u.washington.edu>
>Sender: 
>Reply-To: mjohnson@stake.DaytonOH.NCR.COM (Marget Johnson)
>Followup-To: 
>Distribution: usa
>Organization: Stakeholder Relations, NCR Corp in Dayton,OH
>Keywords: 
>
>In article <1992Aug28.185714.7813@u.washington.edu>
>martin@biostat.washington.edu (Don Martin) writes:
>>I don't have the regestration numbers handy but there are 
>>probably well over 20 000 labs regestered each year.  
>               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>WELL over 20,000. In the month of May this year, more than 8500 Labrador
>Retrievers were registered. Closer to 75,000 Labs per year!
>>
>>No it is not going to be practical to get the number of awards large
>>enough to get an adequate gene pool for breeding.
>>
>>2. Look at the awards listed for sie and dam. In confirmation
>>champions about 25% don't have a champion at all.
>>
>>3. Remember that you need a big enough gene pool to maintain
>>a healthy breed. The pool is already small enough to cause
>>many problems for a number of breeds.
>
>On the other hand, with over 75,000 Labs registered each year, the potential
>gene pool is HUGE. And Labs still have their share of genetic problems. 
>Limiting breeding to animals that are proven in form and function, as well as
>apparently (if not genetically) sound, doesn't sound so undesireable to me!
>However, I agree that the AKC will never initiate such a requirement. But
>more and more parent (breed) clubs are instituting such programs, and peer
>pressure, if nothing else, is forcing a lot of breeders to rethink the goals
>of their breeding programs.
>
>****************************
>Marget Johnson, Windwagon Newfoundlands
>
>-- 
 
this still will not effect pet stores or backyard breeders. whether the breed
club can force akc to change its policy is a big if in my mind. the akc makes
money off the back yard breeders and pet store suppliers for registering low
quality puppies.
 

William Dittmann
Dittwil@bbs1984.chi.il.us
Dittwil@elof.iit.edu
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: schalene@sequent.com (Schalene Dagutis)
Subject: Re: alpha puppy
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc.
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 92 12:29:02 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.184212.18499@midway.uchicago.edu> betsy@rainbow.uchicago.edu (Betsy Weatherhead) writes:
>
(Many interesting comments about an alpha dog deleted for space....)

I couldn't agree more.  Many times people say we didn't pick out our
puppy, he/she picked us.....that's probably an alpha pup.  The Monks
of New Skete won't let prospect owners pick out their dog.  They
temperament test their litters and give a questionnaire to the
prospective owners.  Then they match the pups to the owner.  That's
why I think the few tests we put in the questions to ask breeders are
important.  Prospective owners can do these with the litters they are
looking at.  

schalene
From: abb@unislc.uucp (Anne Beck)
Subject: Re: Newf story
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 14:12:20 GMT

From article <1992Aug27.202041.5656@inel.gov>, by kte@INEL.GOV (Kathryn L Cook):
> In article <l9ndbgINNrr7@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>, mooring@rikki.Eng.Sun.COM (Linda Mooring) writes:
> |> 
> |> I was at the book store the other day and something on women
> |> and their dogs caught my eye.  It wasn't long.  Every
> |> other page featured a picture of a woman and her dog, plus
> |> a brief story about the two.

Much stuff deleted, including a great story.
> |> 
> |> Linda
> *FOUL*  Linda, you march right back into that bookstore and find
> out the title and author *NOW* we W-A-N-T to know .
>  :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)
> (is that enough smilies?)
>       please,
>       -kayti

The title of the book is "Women and their Dogs."  WaldenBooks carries it.
Several of the mail order pet supply houses carry it.  Direct Mail Service books
in Seattle carries it.  If anyone wants a price, etc. (around $10),
e-mail me.
-- 
   Anne Beck			| The difference between difficult
   abb@unislc  sun!unislc!abb   | dogs & vicious human beings is
   Unisys  SLC UT               | that difficult dogs don't rise to 
			        | prominent positions in the community.
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: jag@iti.org (Jacqueline A. Giles)
Subject: Re: info wanted on Rhodesian Ridgebacks-please do not Email
Organization: Industrial Technology Institute
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 14:43:49 GMT

In article <23113@hacgate.SCG.HAC.COM> locke@caesi.scg.hac.com (Anne Locke) writes:
>In article <1992Aug31.231439.5231@morrow.stanford.edu> GC.SUL@forsythe.stanford.edu (Sullivan) writes:
>>Would live to hear from any Rhodesian Ridgeback owners about their
>>dogs. (Please post to Bboard, and not E-mail as it is my husbands
>>account)
>>
>>My requirements are a larger, short-haired dog (often over 100
>>degrees here in the summer), that will provide the appearence of
>>protection.  I also need a dog that is good with small children
>>I hope to take it jogging with me, and hopefully out riding with the
>>horse.
>
>> (some stuff deleted...)
>
>>So, any info posted to the bboard would be appreciated
>>
>>Karen
>
>Hi Karen,
>
>My husband and I have 2 dogs - 1 Golden Retriever (Whiskey - 10+ years old)
>and a female Ridgeback (Rio - just turned 1 year old).  We couldn't be
>happier with our Ridgeback.  I gathered information about the breed from
>people on the net (there are several *very* knowledgeable people on the
>net and I'm sure they'll reply to your post also).  I also wrote the
>secretary of the National Club (RRCUS - Rhod. Ridgeback Club of the U.S.)
>and she sent me some good information in the mail.  I'll post the name and
>address at the end of this posting for you.
>
>Golden Retrievers are great dogs too, but we also wanted a shorter haired
>dog.  Rio is very intelligent and has not yet displayed any signs of
>aggression, although the breeder assures me that "when the chips are down"
>these dogs are *very* protective.  Be sure to find a good, responsible
>breeder who pays attention to temperament.
>
>I don't know how they are around horses, but I would love to find out
>because I intend to have a horse also one day.  If Rio gets her championship
>points and title and she has a litter of pups, we're definitely getting
>another Ridgeback!
>

We lived next door to some horses.  My ridgebacks would go over
there and bark at the horses to get them to run.  The horses only
plyed a couple times before they got wise and just stood there
ignoring the dogs.

I know that there are many ridgeback people that are also horse
people, so ridgebacks and horses living together is probably not a
problem, especially if a ridgeback lives with horses from puppyhood.
Jackie Giles

>We're sold!
>
>Here's the RRCUS info:
>
>Bonnie Louden, RRCUS Corresponding Secretary
>Box 1121
>Columbia, MD  21044
>301 799-1273
>
>Let us know if you get one,
>Anne.
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------
>|  Anne Locke                locke@caesi.scg.hac.com        |
>|  **********                                               |
>|  Hughes Aircraft Company / Space and Communications Group |
>|  Computer Aided Engineering and System Integration        |
>|  El Segundo, Ca.                                          |
>|  (310) 416-5634                                           |
>-------------------------------------------------------------
From: debray@cs.arizona.edu (Saumya K. Debray)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: Feeding Dogs Veggies and Fruit?
Date: 28 Aug 92 22:09:14 GMT
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson

shedevil@vix.com (Anne P. Mitchell JD) writes:

> Her vet's philosophy is that dog food is all a dog should have, ever.

Hmmm ... wonder what dogs ate before dog food was invented!

Judging from scat, the coyotes in our neighborhood eat a lot of 
prickly pear fruit when they ripen (the fruit have no spines), and
they don't seem to suffer too much for it.
-- 
Saumya Debray
Dept. of Computer Science, University of Arizona, Tucson
debray@cs.arizona.edu
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs