HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: larsen@ecn.purdue.EDU (Jill Larsen)
Subject: Costume Bibliography Request
Organization: The Internet
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 05:28:37 GMT

Unto the Gentles of the Rialto doth Jillian Stevynsdaughter send greetings:

My apologies if I am asking for something that has been asked for in the past 
(and if this is the second time for this letter).  After searching all of the ftp sites I could
find reference to and finding not what I was hoping for (a costume bibliography),
I thought I would turn to the great library of knowlege contained here.  (If I 
missed it please direct me to the correct ftp site.)  

I am looking for any known compiled (and annotated would be helpful) 
bibliographies on period clothing.  Or if you just know of a few books that are 
good references I would appreciate hearing about those as well.  Please include 
your opinions about each reference and, if at all possible, ISBN numbers.

I am the local barony's current 'sewing instructor' of period clothing.  As we 
are a college group, we get new people each semester.  An annotated bibliography
to distribute would be extremely helpful for the new (and old :-) interests.  If
you would like a copy of what I end up with please let me know.  If there is a 
lot of interest, I will post a compilation of what I receive.

Thank you in advance for your help with my request.

P.S.  The Baroness Takaiya gave me an excellent annotated bibliography which was
the first of a costumer's newsletter (it didn't have a Name at the time) 
written in July 1983.  It was put together by the Ladies Caterina da Monticello
(from Monticello, IN) and Audelinde de Rheims (Linda Reames Fox, Bloomington,
IN).  If anyone has any information on either of these two Ladies or their
newsletter, I would appreciate the learning.  Thank you.

In Service,

Jillian

Jillian Stevynsdaughter			Jill Larsen (larsen@ecn.purdue.edu)
Barony Rivenstar			Purdue University
Middle Kingdom				W. Lafayette, IN

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: helm@jade.ucdavis.edu (Catie Helm)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Inexpensive, good looking armor
Date: 5 Oct 92 06:29:09 GMT
Reply-To: helm@jade.ucdavis.edu
Organization: Geology Department, University of California, Davis


Good Gentles, 

I wish I could post with good heart tonight, but I cannot.  I discovered
that the camper back on my truck was broken into on Saturday morning,
and one of the things that was stolen was that new helmet I was so proud
of.  That makes this the third helmet to be stolen from me in my SCA
career.  The first was a James Greyhelm Sprangenhelm, which was stolen
at Pennsic 14.  The second was a helmet loaned to me by Viscountess
Shara, which was stolen from the back of my truck while I was unloading
groceries into my apartment in Sacramento.  

There are times, like this one, when I feel like bad luck follows me
around.  I can live without the box of shoes that's gone, and the box
of text books that was stolen too, but the helm is hard to take.

So I am looking at a long time without being able to fight.  I do not
have the money to replace a Steven Norham sallet, and I do not have
the skill to make one myself.

It reminds me of a german hymn written during the 30 years war written
by one of the Bach's:
Alles Leben wie ein Shatten...

It probably doesn't help that I came home from Crown and put Mozart's
Requiem on.  Perhaps I should put some Pink Floyd on instead and get
*really* depressed...   ;-)  

Twcs, not a happy camper at the moment...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Catie Helm, internet: helm@geology.ucdavis
Stable Isotope Lab, Geology Dept.
University of California, Davis
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: schuldy@progress.COM (Mark Schuldenfrei)
Subject: Re: Requiring membership to play
Organization: Progress Software Corp.
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 14:12:40 GMT

Eleonora van den Bogaerde writes:
  I'm beginning to get the impression that decisions are being made which affect
  the SCA around the world, where circumstances differ tremendously, without
  these differences being taken into consideration. 

Aryk responds:
  If you join an American club, you play by American rules.  This includes
  subsidising an American insurance policy which you won't need to use in order
  to get sites, and (for most of the world) mailing off American dollars to
  get a newsletter which is primarily concerned with kingdoms based in the
  States.  If it's worthwhile to you, then you do it -- like subscribing to
  other American publications.  If it's not, then don't.

Aryk, your answer is overly harsh, and doesn't seem to be current with
the direction of the Board.  This may be due to your leaving the SCA some
years ago, and missing some of the new directions.

Eleonora, those are good questions, and I'm afraid that I have seen no
good answers from anyone official.  Perhaps you should write to the Board,
and ask them for the information, and publish your results.

I do notice that we purchase a rider on our insurance that covers foreign
insurance.  There is now a European registry, and I have little doubt that
if there was a need, a Southern Hemisphere Registry might be in order as
well.  There is an International Committee within the Board, to look at
such issues, and its ombudsman is:

	Keith Cartmell
	Master Ragnar the Bold
	423 Woodbine Boulevard
	S.W. Calgary, Alberta Tw@ 4G9
	Canada

There is, however, a kernel of truth to what Aryk says.  The organization
is, basically, an American one.  And, that organization will always have to
be concerned with running it's American operations, even as it learns to
extend itself to the details of each new country.  It's just learning now
how to elegantly deal with International issues.  At present, membership
may not be a great deal for you, nor will it always provide a useful service
to overseas members.

At the same time, however, you could be part of making that representation
possible.

	Tibor
--
Mark Schuldenfrei (schuldy@progress.com)
From: Tim@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Tim)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Early period Irish names - interesting article
Date: 29 Sep 92 12:26:14 GMT


 JM> Reply-To: james@wrs.com

 JM> I ran across an article in Celtica (vol 10, 1973, pp 212-236; Celtica
 JM> is the journal of the Dublin Institute for Advanced Studies) that would
 JM> be of interest to anyone interested in early Irish names.  It's
 JM> entitled "Old Irish Personal Names," by Michael A. O'Brien and covers
 JM> the period 400-1000 ad.  It discusses the original sources of the
 JM> names, and has a list of the commonest names in use.

 An ISSN would be nice....


 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: JBrandt@AAA.UOregon.EDU (Laurie e. W. Brandt)
Subject: RE:Bain Documentation for Names
Organization: The Polyhedron Group
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 92 03:27:00 GMT

    Having been Aestel Herald in the Kingdom of An Tir, "Bain's Clans of
Scotland" is a good place to start.  The best book on the topic is by
George F. Black's "Surnames of Scotland Their Origin, Meaning and History"
printed by the New York Public Library 1946 and its still in print.  Check
with the main library at Indiana University it would be in the CR's.

A rule of thumb in proving a name in the Society that always works, is find
a person who lived in period (500-1600) or pre period (01-500) A.D. that
has the name you want in the position you want it in.  The more often you
can use source texts the better because this can be used to justify the
spelling that you may prefer.
Laurie E. W. Brandt/aka HerLadyship Pegasus Devona, Pursivant at Large AoA,
GdS.


Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: tperreau@zia.aoc.nrao.edu (The Mad Scot)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Feet Voting
Date: 6 Oct 92 16:39:59 GMT
Article-I.D.: zia.1992Oct6.163959.23514
Organization: National Radio Astronomy Observatory, Socorro NM

In article <1992Oct06.151007.23759@watson.ibm.com> mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman) writes:
>Greetings from Arval!  Cavalamar wrote of his shire:
>
>> I do not believe that our one-time existance as a college had anything to
>> do with whether or not the university "approved".  Someone please check
>> official BoD policy on this, but isn't college vs shire left completely
>> up to the group in question?  Is a "university" needed to call ones group
>> a college (in BoD rules)?
>
>The fact that an SCA branch is labelled a "college" does not imply any
>formal relationship between the SCA branch and any mundane college or
>university.  The corporation has defined the term "college" as one that may
>be used by institutional branches  located at and near schools; one could
>argue that an SCA college cannot exist except at a mundane school, but
>there is certainly no formal connection between the two.
>
>===========================================================================
>Arval Benicoeur                                       mittle@watson.ibm.com

Usually it is "better" to be a college than a shire where it concerns
a base number of people active and officer reporting - colleges are
allowed to miss the summer months, given the assumption that the
populace (or the majority of the populace) will be gone during that
time.

You will also _usually_ find a college associated with a barony, but
not always.  Our college of St. Golias is an exception to that rule,
for we have no associated barony (thank God!) and report directly to
our kingdom officers.


-- 
================================================================================
Tony Perreault, High Tech Babysitter & Nanny	tperreau@zia.aoc.nrao.edu
Array Operations, Very Large Array	      All opinions expressed are my
Socorro, NM				        own and not those of NRAO
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu ()
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: infant wear (was Re: Historical Survey Question)
Date: 28 Sep 1992 18:45:45 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

In article <07hzpw#@rpi.edu> habura@vccnorthb.its.rpi.edu (Andrea Marie Habura) writes:
"Bertram, if you can dig up a piece of coral jewelry (especially a necklace),
"put that on her too. I've seen several 15th and 16th century paintings of
"infants wearing coral; I used to know why, but have forgotten.

Ha, I know that one too.  Kori won't be needing coral yet, so you have a
chance to shop around.  Coral beads are acceptable only if they're on a
VERY STRONG CORD.  What you really want is a smooth piece of coral branch,
drilled through one end and hung around the kid's neck.  Make sure it's
smooth all over and has no sharp edges.  IT'S A TEETHER.

It's hard as all get out, and tends to be cooler than body temperature.
When she starts bitching and moaning about those first teeth poking
through, hang the coral around her neck and let her try to gum it to
death.  (I still have Tris and Meg's coral around someplace--if ever I
get the house cleaned up, I may find it....)


Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin                               Dorothy J. Heydt
Mists/Mists/West                                              Albany CA
Argent, a cross forme'e sable

Disclaimer: This is the Cozzarelli Lab's account, not mine--but I don't
think anybody else ever reads it.
From: dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Requiring Membership to play
Date: 29 Sep 92 19:39:05 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman):
>The Board also see this as a way to reduce the workload of the volunteer 
>list officers, and shifting it to the corporate office where it would be 
>substantially less work since it is simply an extension... 
>I suggested that waivers for non-member fighters could be handled separately,
>perhaps with a small fee to cover the cost of processing; Ms. Johnson 
>expressed concern about the extra workload for the already over-burdened 
>corporate office...

If the corporate office is that overburdened, then shifting work away
from volunteers just to realize an efficiency isn't a good idea.
From: sherman@trln.lib.unc.EDU ("Dennis R. Sherman")
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: FAQ available
Date: 1 Oct 92 12:59:54 GMT
Article-I.D.: trln.009616F0.52CC9620.2149
Organization: The Internet

Greeting to the Rialto from Robyyan.

The beginning-of-the-month reminder:

There is a Frequently Asked Questions list available, providing
answers to those FAQs, and a posting style guide.

To get your very own copy, you can

1.  Wait for the middle of the month, when the entire thing will be
    posted, in 4 parts.
2.  Retrieve it via FTP from one of the following sites:
                site              directory
        meadow.stanford.edu     pub/sca-faq/
        rainbow.cse.nau.edu     sca/faq/
        bransle.ucs.mun.ca      pub/sca/sca-faq/
3.  Request a copy from me via email.
4.  Retrieve the FAQ from news.answers, or any site with news.answers
    archives.

And again a reminder: if you have suggestions for things to include in
the FAQ, or opinions to offer on anything that is already there, please
mail me - I may not see a suggestion buried in a posting to the Rialto.
I respond to all comments I receive, and occasionally summarize to the
Rialto if it seems appropriate.

*--------------------------------------------------------------------*
* Robyyan Torr d'Elandris  Kapellenberg, Windmaster's Hill  Atlantia *
*--------------------------------------------------------------------*
* Dennis R. Sherman  	         Triangle Research Libraries Network *
* dennis_sherman@unc.edu       Univ. of North Carolina - Chapel Hill *
*--------------------------------------------------------------------*
From: Beth.Appleton@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Beth Appleton)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Counts and Dukes and Laurels oh my
Date: 29 Sep 92 19:31:04 GMT


 JM> Greetings from Arval!  Gwenllian wrote:

>   As for the 1 time= Count, 2 times = Duke, 
> that's based on the Roman 
>  practices.  Sure, it's a bit early for our 
 JM> Can you document this?  I'd be fascinated to read about it.
 Well, I'll have to go looking.  I've "known" this for a long time, 
 and while I think I learned it from a reliable source, I'll go check 
 it out.  It'll be a while, as I work 2 jobs so time is scarce.  OTOH, 
 I'm due a trip to the library anyway.  I've got all these books folks 
 keep quoting to go look at!
     (remembered thought process:  ca 10-12 yrs ago, read *something* 
  about this practice, said Aha! that's where the thought came from.  
  Book title?  GOKAHNT.)
       Gwenllian, sheepishly

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
From: jtn@nutter.cs.vt.edu (Terry Nutter)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: a "hair raising" question
Date: 30 Sep 92 14:53:39 GMT
Followup-To: rec.org.sca
Organization: The Rialto

Greetings, all, from Angharad ver' Rhuawn.  Michael Carson asked about
hairstyles.  Aell Aethelwita answered,

>                                                                     A simple
>generic answer is that your lady should cover her hair with an appropriate
>veil or headdress. Styles for these varied quite alot, from a veil or smallcap
>resting on the head or pinned on, to the high pointed hennins (conical
>"princess" hat typically used in cartoons, etc., to indicate a medieval lady).
>Undoubtedly there were times and situations when a lady could go with her hair
>uncovered. I am not familiar with the details, though I think distinctions
>were typically made based on the marital status of the lady (always covered if
>married, etc.). This certainly makes the question of hair style easier!

So far as this question admits of a generic answer, this one is essentially
right, with one further proviso.  In most times and places, a married lady
was expected to have her hair dressed -- i.e. put up somehow or other, frequently
involving braiding, ranging from very simple to arbitrarily complex.  If you 
add a braided bun, or a couple of them, or something similar, under your veil,
you have something closer to the norm for any normal adult lady.  (Indeed, there
were times and places where braiding with a ribbon or two was perfectly decent,
but loose with a veil was not.)

Cheers,

-- Angharad/Terry
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mary@ossi.com (Mary Seabrook)
Subject: Re: Inexpensive, good looking armor
Organization: Open Systems Solutions Inc.
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 18:29:23 GMT

helm@jade.ucdavis.edu (Catie Helm) writes:

>I myself wear a globulus gothic breast plate, and the thought of
>putting a domed get-em-on-the-field helmet on top of it just makes
>my aestitics cringe...  (Could it be?  Cound the Twcs be suffering
>from a case of incipient armour-foppishness?  Nah...   ;-)

>Twcs

He, hehe, giggle, HAHAHAHA....

Sorry Twcs, but I cant help remembering the look on your face when..

well you see, Twcs-her-very-self was trying to persuade me of something
(exactly what now escapes me, however...) and I ended up being wrapped in said
"globulus gothic breast plate" (over gambeson of course) at which point Twcs
let loose with her very effective axe, to prove to me that it didnt hurt.
(which it didnt). It did however manage to dent the breast plate, much to her
dismay! - a truly wonderful moment!

Elizabeth 
--
mary@ossi.com
+1 510 652 6200 x 124

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: Ann.Feeney@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Ann Feeney)
Subject: Re:  Low Mileage Colic Cure
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 18:20:05 GMT

In article <1992Sep28.235558.29712@u.washington.edu> lcatlett@milton.u.washington.edu (Lynn Catlett) writes:
>
>Dorthea, advising Bertram the New Papa, says: 
>> (The
>>other thing that helped was taking him for long drives in the mechanical
>>wain, hours and hours in the middle of the night.  I hope you don't have
>>to do this.)
>
>Since sleep-deprived parents driving for hours and hours in the
>middle of the night soon lose the bright, young glow, their 
>sense of humor, etc., you might try (if needed, which heaven
>forefend) putting infant in carrier on clothes dryer and drying
>a looooooooooooong load.  Seems to work very much the same way...
>
>Good luck!
>Lynn

But be sure to put lots of blankets underneath the carrier, whatever, that
you put the infant in.  It can get a bit hot, and better to insulate
than not.

Cars _still_ put me to sleep, so much so that I avoid driving whenever
possible.  I've nearly dozed at the wheel twice.  Supposedly depending
on driving to make the baby sleepy can do this--one associates the
sounds and smells with sleeping in later life, and can't help but feel
drowsy.  Might be true, but in any case, a padded drier or dishwasher is
safe.  (Put the baby _on_, not in!) ;-) )
Enid
--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: msmallin@hamp.hampshire.edu
Subject: Another name querry.....
Organization: Hampshire College
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 00:12:14 GMT

Good gentles; I, too, would ask your asistance. My chosen name,
Kierana Woodvale, is the cause for this querry. "Cieran" was held by 
a few 5th c Irish saints, and was Anglicised to "Kieran". What I need
is some direction in feminizations of male names in Irelard and Wales
around 1150-1350. Kerena is the name of Job's third daughter; might
my noble father have combined the two to get Kierana? Also, when was 
the change made from surnames such as "X in the wooded valley" changed
to "X Woodvale" ? I'm very attached to this name, and any assistance
would be greatly apreceiated....

 In service,
  Kierana Woodvale, Barony of Bergental

msmallin@hamp.hampshire.edu
From: samlb@optilink.UUCP (Sam Bassett)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Mistakes & Rumors
Date: 5 Oct 92 15:32:35 GMT
Organization: Old, used whatever

In article <1992Oct5.052811.13126@vela.acs.oakland.edu> atterlep@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Montgomery J. Moose) writes:
>	I had a disturbing conversation with Mistress Jaelle of Armida this
>evening.  She is working on a three-volume compilation of small ordinaries so
>that SCA heralds can check for conflict against these without having to search.
>On the net a few weeks ago, it was stated that this work was going to run to
>20 volumes, not three.  (This has a lot of significance for heralds who think

>As SCA members
>(in the traditional sense), we have a responsibility to make sure that we are
>reporting only the facts as we know them.
>	I would suggest mentioning guidelines for posting )n an FAQ.  These
>should be the same as those we use in A&S--namely, that

	I disagree -- first, as an inveterate reader of the Net, I don't
remember a reference to "20 volumes" (but I might well have
missed/forgotten it).
	Second, I agree  that we need to do as much as we can to be
accurate and to the point in postings, but punctillious accuracy and
citing references (for all but the periodic displays of academic
one-up-personship we see here :-) is an unwarranted imposition on the
nature of the medium.
	I grant that it is easy to post misinformation, but grant me then
that the readership will _damn_ speedily correct that misinformation!
The essential thing about the Rialto is its speed and and its spread --
news and viesw of the most diverse sort are spread over the entirety of
the 12 Laurel Kingdoms in an eye-blink.  As one who had to deal with the
U.S. Post Offal and printing delays to get information out, this seems
more than a bit magical!
	Yes, there are some people (mostly academics) who worry
excessively about accuracy of detail -- there are other people, however,
who are concerned with _doing_ rather than publishing, who will tolerate
a bit of inaccuracy here and there, so long as quick error fixes follow.


-- 
Sam'l Bassett -- System Administrator 	      (among other silly things)
Work: DSC/Optilink, 1310-C Redwood Wy, Petaluma CA 94954; 1-707-792-7253
Internet: samlb@optilink.com 		      UUCP: uunet!optilink!samlb
From: RGUSTAVSON@ocs.dir.texas.GOV
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Reference
Date: 1 Oct 92 15:08:54 GMT
Article-I.D.: ocs.921001090854.9f0
Organization: The Internet

M'Lords, M'Ladies; Greetings and Blessings:

 >I am looking for a period book that gives the "rules of war" during the 
>period when the chivalric ideal was being espoused in Western Europe.  (I have
>to write a 20-page paper on a primary source of medieval history...)  My
>professor was able to suggest only a book called "the _Tree of Battle_ or some
>such..."
>Any help would be, well, very helpful.
>
>                Alan Fairfax Aluricson, Fenris Herald
>                Canton of the Riding of Hawkland Moor
>                Barony of Northwoods, Midrealm
>                atterlep@vela.acs.oakland.edu           **Magnitudo Vocis**

I am about to finish "The Book of the Medieval Knight"; Stephen Turnbull; orig.
pub. "Arms and Armour Press", London, 1985; repub by Crown Publishers, NY,
NY.
It really is more of a history of warfare between GB and France from Edward II
through the fall of the English control of Aquitaine, including the York / Lancaster
civil war (the "War of the Roses").  Fascinating reading even if you find it useless
for your purposes :) !  

Until again we meet, I shall  remain in your service, a humble servant of God and
Crown.

                    Robin 
From: Ruth.Woodring@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Ruth Woodring)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet