HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mcsnewton@memstvx1.memst.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: **EMERGENCY BIRTHDAY WISH!!!**
Date: 30 Dec 92 21:43:26 GMT
Organization: Memphis State University



Hello Everyone!!

I have a small favor to ask of all of you.  One of my co-workers will be
celebrating a birthday tommorrow (Dec. 31, 1992) and I was wondering if a few
nice people would wish him Happy Birthday via e-mail.

His e-mail address is:
MCSOSMANI@MEMSTVX1.MEMST.EDU

His name is Aamir Osmani and he's from Pakistan.

I'm not Pakistani, but I thought this would be a nice thing to do because he's
such a nice person.

Thanks to Everyone who responds!!!!

Tundrea Newton
Memphis State University
From: shamim@onyx.egr.msu.edu (Tariq Shamim)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Quaid-e-Azam's Birth Day
Date: 22 Dec 92 17:15:14 GMT
Organization: College of Engineering, Michigan State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: onyx.egr.msu.edu


To all Pakistanis and Freedom lovers,

Happy Quaid Day (25 December)!!!!

Please pay your tributes to the Founder of Pakistan, Quaid-e-Azam (Great Leader)
Mohammed Ali Jinnah.  Only very few individuals can change the course of history
or change the map of the world, he did both of them.  

Tariq Shamim
Mechanical Engineering
Michigan State University
From: hyder@cs.utexas.edu (Syed Irfan Hyder)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Sking in Pakistan
Date: 3 Jan 1993 18:49:22 -0600
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: pageboy.cs.utexas.edu

In article <1i7ea6INNcds@sumax.seattleu.edu> rathoret@sumax.seattleu.edu (Tariq Rathore) writes:
>> I am going on a trip to Pakistan in late January. I have heard from a
>> few people that there have been some ski hills constructed up north,
>> namely in the Gilgit and Swat areas. I would like to know more about
>> them, has anyone heard about these places? Are they open for business?
>> How many runs do they have?

Naltar, about 3-5 hours from Gilgit is a fascinating place.
The tip of the mountain is lush green and the slopes  filled with 
snow during winter. Whereas, the lower half of the mountain is
as devoid of vegetation, or greenery as you can find. 
Ah, how beautiful was the description of Naltar in Mukhtan Masud's
Aawaaz-e-dost! Even more beautiful is the actual site!

It is, I think maintained by army.
From: khan@ces.cwru.edu (Mansoor Khan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Pakistan is lilbit different from Israel
Date: 24 Dec 1992 05:08:20 GMT
Organization: Computer Engineering and Science, Case Western Reserve University
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: king.ces.cwru.edu

Stuff Deleted

>The creation of the Jewish state of Israel solely on the basis of religion
>which resulted in the mass expulsion of Arabs and non-jews is derided by the
>entire muslim world and possibly by a large number of Pakistanis; but I've never
>understood how the creation of the muslim state of Pakistan was justified in the
>same breadth by the same people.

>--Javed.

	Pakistan and India were Created by bisecting pre-1947 India.
	People who lived in post-47 India were living there for centuies.
	Similarly people who lived in Pakistan lived there for Centuries.
	i.e. Baluchis, Panjabis, Sindhis, Bengalis, and Pathans. Yes, huge
	trans-border migration took place, but all of the people who now live
	in Pakistan and India,  lived in pre 47 India for thousands of years.
	Israel on the other hand was created for bringing people who
	did not belong to Palestine. In other words, Jews who live in
	todays Israel, most of them are of non Palestinian ancestary.
	i.e. people of pre 1948 Palestine <> people of Jordan + People of
					     Israel + People of West Bank
						      of river Jordan.

	but people of pre 1947 India = people of modern Pakistan 
				     + people of modern India.
  
Mansoor Khan
Cleveland, Ohio


Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: "faraz rabbani" <faraz.rabbani@canrem.com>
Subject: re: pakistan is lilbit di
Reply-To: "faraz rabbani" <faraz.rabbani@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: soc
Date: 28 Dec 92 15:04:27 EST

To: ALL

 "faraz rabbani" (faraz.rabbani@canrem.com) wrote:
 RR> : But the issue is not whether they are better off than in other
 RR> : places, but how they fare in India...  the Ayodhya issue, and now
 RR> : the threats to assail the Taj Mahal, shows how much their rights (as
 RR> : granted by the Supreme Court) can be quashed by a determined
 RR> : majority... sad... But I have hope...

 To which rajesh@juniper (Rajesh Raman) replied:

 RR> I'm sorry that I didn't make it more explicit. I meant that such
 RR> things ( things that were happening to Muslims in India ) happen all
 RR> over the world and shouldn't be blown out of proportion. I don't
 RR> know about too much about the state of the minorities in Pakistan but
 RR> I unerstand that they are not in too good a shape. This is borne out
 RR> from what happened in reaction to the destruction of the mosque in
 RR> India. This is not to say that the lot of Muslims in India shouldn't
 RR> be improved. Education and health should be the prime areas of focus
 RR> and not religion.

Exactly, but the PRESENT CRISIS at Ayodhya was started by Hindus,
not Muslims (who liked where the Mosque *was*)...

And 1200 people (mostly Muslim shot by a mostly Hindu police force)
don't die in a week over a religious issue where a minority's
GRANTED right denied "all over the world"...

 RR> One of the reasons for the destruction of the mosque was the view
 RR> amongst Hindus that it was time that they acted. There has been a
 RR> history of brutal oppression of Hindus under many Muslim regimes in
 RR> the past 1000 years and that cannot just be ignored. It's sad that
 RR> some guys on the net deny that this ever happened . This is akin to
 RR> what the neo-nazis in Germany and the KKK are doing. They deny that
 RR> Hitler ever exterminated Jews.
 
But to my knowledge, the Jews do not go en masse to Germany
destroying buildings, etc...  The past's justice CANNOT be imparted
now...  Like this, I can say that my cave-living descendants roamed
all over the world; therefore I OWN the world...  does not work that
way, bud...

 RR> Both the destruction of the mosque in India and the destruction of
 RR> the temples in other countries are equally reprehensible. We cannot
 RR> ignore the fact that both happened and not just one of them.

But one ignited the other...  One was the issue, and the other was
the result of the issue.  Both sad though, VERY SAD and
reprehensible, I agree fully.  But the bigger outrage is what
triggered the death of 1200 plus people...

Faraz Rabbani

... Either he is dead, or my watch has stopped.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
From: shafqat@neuro.duke.edu (Saad Shafqat)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Private Education in Pakistan
Date: 25 Dec 92 15:59:01 GMT
Organization: Duke University; Durham, N.C.



Mansoor bhai, as-Salaam ualaikum.

I agree 110% with everything you said about the benefits of private
educational institutions of higher learning.  As you said, things
are slowly getting done and institutions committed to excellence
are being built.  But even these are a far cry from being anything
close to world-class.  Thus, my insistence on generating more wealth
in the country should be obvious.  Even if all funds are properly
channelised, the economy as it now stands will not give us quality
health care, living standards or educational institutions.  For
example, the contents of the medical library here at Duke alone
far exceed the combined contents of all the medical libraries
in all the medical colleges of Pakistan.  There's no comparison,
and its silly to even think there might be.  Even private funds
cannot provide us with world-class institutions.  At best,
private donations can *initiate* development, but depend on
a wealthy social infrastructure to be *suatained*.  Take the
case of the Aga Khan University.  His Highness Prince Karim Aga
Khan put up US$300 million (!) to establish the school and hospital.
Even so, it isn't world-class by Western standards.  But anyhow,
the set-up cannot be indefinitely sustained by donations alone.
Nobody, not even in the West, has that kind of money.  It needs
to be sustained through students fees, hospital charges as well,
alongwith private fund-raising.  A rich society is necessary for
its perpetuation and to prevent the school's slide down the
ubiquitous raod to mediocrity.

Finally, I beleive the paucity of large-scale philanthropy in
Pakistan has much to do with the late Zulfiqar Ali's "hatchet
job", to borrow Jawad's term.  Before this gentleman came to
power, the Adamjees, the Dawoods, the Habibs had established
quality schools and colleges in Karachi which have all gone
down the toilet since nationalization in the early 1970's.
With Mohtarma Benazir Bhutto still politically viable and
refusing to reject her mentor's socialist mantra, is it any
surprise that the industrialists are wary ?  Private donations
continue to be channeled along routes generally considered
immune to governmental interference.  With political stability
(and sanity), the old tradition will indeed resurface.

Best wishes,

Saad.


-- 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: dbose@aem.umn.edu (Deepak Bose)
Subject: Re: Quaid-e-Azam's Birth Day
Organization: University of Minnesota
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 00:01:22 GMT

rajat@carson.u.washington.edu (Rajat Singh) writes:

>In article <1h7if2INNces@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> shamim@onyx.egr.msu.edu (Tariq Shamim) writes:
>>
>>To all Pakistanis and Freedom lovers,
>>
>>Happy Quaid Day (25 December)!!!!
>>
>>Please pay your tributes to the Founder of Pakistan, Quaid-e-Azam (Great Leader)
>>Mohammed Ali Jinnah.  Only very few individuals can change the course of history
>>or change the map of the world, he did both of them.  
>>                                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


>and brought misery on the earth.

AND BECAME THE FOUNDER OF A TERRORIST STATE .( I guess he must be ashamed of himself
						in the hell )

						HA HA HA HA !!! 

>rks. 


>>Tariq Shamim
>>Mechanical Engineering
>>Michigan State University
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: "faraz rabbani" <faraz.rabbani@canrem.com>
Subject: re: what does this mean ?
Reply-To: "faraz rabbani" <faraz.rabbani@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: soc
Date: 29 Dec 92 23:53:16 EST

 RR> Ahmet Arman (aarman@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu) wrote:
 RR> :  O you who believe! take not the jews and the christians as friends.
 RR> They are. :

 RR> Guys, what does this mean ?

 RR> Rajesh Raman

Nothing!  It is simple ignorance.  At the height of Islamic glory,
Muslims were employing Jewish and Christian scientists and
intellectuals -- when their skills were deemed useful -- in large
numbers.  They translated the great philosophic works of the
Greeks...  and sought knowledge wherever it came from.  Knowledge is
knowledge.  Hermeticised Islamic thought seeks to cut off all the
open and forgiving aspects of the great religion.  I am no expert, I
profess, but this is what my readings have lead me to conclude.  May
the barrage commence! <grin, sigh>

Now, too, Muslims can learn much (and NOT learn other things!) from
Christians, Jews, atheists, etc. 

Faraz Rabbani

... No man shall be hanged twice for the same offense.  
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.indian
From: jakhan@IASTATE.EDU (Javed Ahmed Khan)
Subject: Bosnia (Re: Imbecile Mustafa's) 
Reply-To: jakhan@IASTATE.EDU (Javed Ahmed Khan)
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 21:11:36 GMT



This whole business of justifying persecution in the name of atrocities
commited on ancestors seems to be the hobby of many present day demogogues.

Righting of a historical wrong figures high on the agenda of many movements
without regard to the fact that the movements themselves become guilty of the
commiting the crime they are trying to avenge.

The conflict in Bosnia however is not one of righting a historical wrong. It is
one of territorial greed and fascist tendencies afflicting the Serbs fighting
in Bosnia with wholehearted support from the leadership in Serbia. 

Citing the rule of the Ottomans or the events of WWII is a feeble attempt by
many muslim-antagonists in Serbia and in the west to play down the crass human
greed for territory and the atrocities being commited by the Serbs in Bosnia.

The Serbs have now gobbled up 95% of the land in Serbia with another 2-3%
attached by Croatia leaving in their wake a refugee crisis with people (an
overwhelming majority of them muslims) dispossesed of their homeland.     

The Croats who had been fighting along with the Muslims have begun making their
own deals with the Serbs and have merged the land controlled by them with
Croatia.

So the Muslims have been left to fend for themselves. They are being denied the
right to defend themselves by the UN inspite of the abject inabilty of the UN
to prevent the Serbs from arming themselves. 

Bush does not want to let American lives "put in harms way" as he put it, but
decides firmly against lifting the arms embargo against Bosnia inspite of 
glaring evidence that it is helping the Serbs get away with murder. 

Bush does not want seen as siding any one but does not believe that the failure
of the UN to prevent Serbs from getting supplies and effectively blocking the
Bosnians from fighting a fair war is in effect siding the Serbs.


The UN must effectvely strangle the Serbs fighting in Bosnia of supplies or let
the Bosnians have a chance to defend themselves by lifting the oil and arms
embargo.

There are signs however that the US is unable to digest the atrocities being
commited in  Bosnia and is pushing for air-strikes. This could dampen the
enthusiasm of the Serbs and should give some meaning to the role of the UN as
a creator of peace rather than a relief organisation.



--Javed.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Moslems@
From: shariq@charlie.usd.edu
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 18:51:03 GMT
Reply-To: shariq@charlie.usd.edu
Organization: The University of South Dakota Computer Science Dept.

In article <1992Dec25.045548.24739@fuug.fi>, an3923@anon.penet.fi writes:
>
>
>I am from Turkey and I noticed that there is something very funny
>about all the world conflicts. ( I am not a practicing moslem)
>
>Israel-Palestinian issue ( Moslems Vs Jews)
>Cyprus Problem           ( Moslems Vs Catholics)
>German Ethnic trouble    ( Moslems ( Turks) Vs Germans)
>Bosnian issue            ( Moslems Vs Christians)
>Iraq - Kuwait strife     ( Moslems Vs Moslems)
>Iran - Iraq              ( ditto)
>Iraq Vs Kurds            ( ditto)
>Indian temple issue      ( Moslems Vs Hindus)
>Burmese ethnic problems  ( Moslems Vs Buddhists)
>Malaysian ethnic trouble ( Moslems Vs Chinese)
>Somalian problem         ( Moslems vs Moslems)
>Armenia                  ( Moslems Vs christians)
>
>
>	Almost every conceivable problem in the world is caused by moslems.
>Also, undoubtably all the major barbaric regimes in the world are run by
>Moslems ( Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Kuwait, Yemen, Iran, Pakistan just to name a few)
>and the major terrorist nations ( except Cuba) are all moslem ( Pakistan, Iran,
>cyria, Lybia, Jordan). Turkey is the ONLY moslem country which is secular.
>What does this tell us about our religion and our culture? It makes me wonder!
Don't get me wrong here but most Turks I have met are really dishonest about
what goes on in their country. Turkey should be a role model for Muslim
countries because of the progress they have made over the last 40 years, but to 
be honest violence has been associated with Turks eversince their existence. 
Being a Turkk as you claim you must be aware of the saying that if Turks do
not get an enemy to fight they fight among themselves. I cannot remember quite
correctly there was Teimur ...........oh forgive me.... One leader was lame and
the other had one eye and theyy fought and ....................Plus Genghis 
Khan and many more such tyrants.And by being on the German  bandwagonn in both 
the wars please doo not preach Turkishh culture to us.
>
>
>Irfan Ahmed
>Sys. Admin., Calico Tech.
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>To find out more about the anon service, send mail to help@anon.penet.fi.
>Due to the double-blind system, any replies to this message will be anonymized,
>and an anonymous id will be allocated automatically. You have been warned.


Shariq.
From: das@meavax.nrrc.ncsu.edu
Subject: Re: Appology demmanded from dchatterjee
Reply-To: das@meavax.nrrc.ncsu.edu
Organization: North Carolina State University
Distribution: na
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 16:47:48 GMT

DEAR SYED AGHA SAEED,
		THIS DEB CHATTERJEE FELLOW IS A REAL EMBARRASMENT FOR 
MY COUNTRY INDIA. THESE ARE THE KIND OF PEOPLE WHO INCITE OTHERS
AND CAUSE MISTRUST. HE EVEN DOESN'T RESPECT THE STATE FROM WHICH
HE COMES FROM, THE STATE WHICH HAD GIVEN HIM FREE EDUCATION TILL
HIS BACHELOR'S DEGREE.THESE ARE THE PEOPLE WHO, AT LEAST SHOULD
BE DENIED THE PRIVILEGE TO POST HIS LETTERS.
			MAY YOU LIVE IN PEACE,
					-- A CONCERNED INDIAN.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.pakistan:18875 soc.culture.bangladesh:7136 soc.culture.indian:42109
From: rajesh@juniper (Rajesh Raman)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Victory Day in Bangladesh!!!
Date: 27 Dec 92 22:32:43 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
NNTP-Posting-Host: juniper.wpi.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

:    
: Dear Tushu,
: 
: I was not following the scb and scp spillovers. If that was the case in the
: first place, then I must apologize for intruding with the rudeness and
: cruelty I must have afflicted on undeserving individuals.
: 
: As I am only interested on scp and for the forseeable future will not have
: time for any other groups, I respectfully request all hostilities to seize.

  Thanks. Hatchet buried.
: 
: It is my intention to provide and participate positive/constructive input 
: towards scp, in any small or large manner I can. scb, sci etc hold no
: interest for me. 
: 
: I am not anti-indian, hindoo, bengali neither do I harbor ill feelings towards
: people in general. My good friends and associates include all of the above and
: more. I am taking your response seriously enough to hope people like yourself
: can broadcast the names of malicious and rude article senders to sci, scb etc
: 
: However, whenever I see an unjustified spillover on scp, from people who use 
: malicious and inflammatory language just for the purpose of enjoyment, a 
: satisfactory respose will be promptly posted.

  I hope that doesn't mean that you will reply in the same vain.

: 
: 
: Best Regards,
: Shams Hasan.
: 

--

Rajesh Raman

--
From: banerjee@aludra.usc.edu (Samit Banerjee)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Difference
Date: 24 Dec 1992 22:39:00 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu

In article <1he71tINNvj@aludra.usc.edu> fafat@aludra.usc.edu (Vijay Fafat) writes:
>	Tell me something, don't they teach grave digging at your mines
>	institute? Dig one, jump into it and pull the mud over yourself.

I object. This would pollute the whole area and place everyone
around at a grave (no pun intended) risk of being contaminated by the
decaying, malodorous Mustafa.

I suggest we create a specially marked "Ibrahim Family only" disposal
site and of course evacuate everyone within a ten mile radius. Then
Mustafa can jump in to test how full proof the system is.   

>	Not only because you're MUSTAFA IBRAHIM but also because you're
>	Asim Mughal's katlu donkey :) You'll save Deb some trouble with
>	"a moral responsibility to choke Mustafa" :) 

Now that Deb is at Lawrence which I believe is within driving distance to
Boulder,  maybe he should no longer keep it a threat. Would save us all
a lot of aggravation and I know of some gentlemen on SCI/SCB/SCP who
would gratefully contribute to a generous funeral fund.

Samit
 

-- 
Samit Banerjee				|			
University of Southern California,	| If you take yourself too seriously, 
Internet  banerjee@aludra.usc.edu       | you will be only one who does.
Bellnet: (213) 342-1401			|			 	
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: hasan@cs.washington.edu (Shams Hasan)
Subject: Re: Victory Day in Bangladesh!!!
Summary: Spare me.....Spare us..... 
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, U. of Washington, Seattle
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 23:52:24 GMT

In article <MRAHMAN.92Dec22173557@occs.cs.oberlin.edu> mrahman@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Mushfiqur Rahman) writes:
>In article <1992Dec22.213838.540@beaver.cs.washington.edu> hasan@cs.washington.edu (Shams Hasan) writes:
>
>
>>   Dear Khaleq,
>
>>   I donot know which Jahils from Pakistan are sending death threats. 
>>   If you have any b*lls, kindly let every one know, after all you are living
>>   in a free society. 
>
>>  Also, PakiAmericans and Pakistanis could care less what your Bangladeshis
>>  problems are after twenty years. After all, if you guys are as Sonar as your
>>  Bangla, how come Bangladesh is making more babies than food/economy for its
>>  people. Japan btw was destroyed totally in 1945, in 1965 it was becoming a
>           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>  power house of a nation with no local resources. 
>  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>  So, please stop snivelling snot, and move on down the road.
>>  Try doing something instead of complaining like a spoilt brat.
>
>>   Best Regards to you and the rest of the Bengalis on the net,
>>   Shams Hasan.
>
>Comparison between Japan is Bangladesh is not appropriate. If you had
>any knowledge of Japanese and likewise Bangladeshi (Econoimc) History 
>you wouldn't have made such a comparison. So please do not post what 
>you don't know (which has become very evident from your past postings).
>So before you get on your high horse and call Khaleq a spoilt brat,
>know what the hell you are talking about. And please also back it up
>with facts and sources.
>
>No Regards.
>
>Tushu
>

Dear Tooshoo,


As you are so informed about the economic differences between the natural
resourceless Japanese, and similar Bangladeshis, please tell ignorant and
illeterate souls why do you snivell and complain on SCP ?

Why cannot you smart talking Bangladeshis do some smart thinking about 
Sonar Bangla. And please spare us, .... do it on SCB!

Best Regards,
Shams Hasan.




Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: jakhan@IASTATE.EDU (Javed Ahmed Khan)
Subject: Re: Pakistan
Reply-To: jakhan@IASTATE.EDU (Javed Ahmed Khan)
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 16:04:58 GMT


 hyder@cs.utexas.edu (Syed Irfan Hyder) writes:
==============================================================================

:The bottom line is that Islam nowhere dictated that Pakistan must be created
                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
:; but Pakistan was created because of Islam


And from this fact arose the following "compulsion":

If a country has already been created in the name of Islam, then
it should truly be made to subscribe to Islamic Ideals.
===============================================================================



This question is directed to Irfan Hyder.

Do you agree with this last statement made by Arindam (especially the underlined
part) ?


--Javed.



Xref: sparky soc.culture.pakistan:18931 soc.culture.bangladesh:7173 soc.culture.indian:42251