HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: meganb@sequent.com (Megan Breninger)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: This bounced, so posting "whole"!
Summary: To Alison in New Zealand, primarily!
Date: 13 Oct 92 15:31:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: sequent.1992Oct13.153141.1657
Followup-To: Full time workers that board their horses out.
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc.

To: corich_a@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
Subject: Re: Letting loose
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian

In article <1992Oct13.132424.1@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz> you write:
>(STUFF DELETED)
>
>Down here in New Zealand the majority of our horses are kept
>outside..permanently.
>
>In winter we rug them up and feed them more.
>
>Apparently thats why NZ thoroughbreds do so well in cross-country eventing.
>Because they are born and develop outside they are hardy and tough.
>
>PS With working full time I don't think I would have time for a stabled horse..
>how do all you full time workers manage it?
>
>Alison, Wellington, New Zealand

Well, Alison, this is how one of my ORDINARY days goes:

Get up at 5:30 a.m.  Shower, let the dog out, feed the dog and cat.
Kiss Larry good-bye at 6:30, leave for work.

Work from 7:00 to 4:00.  Go from work to the barn.  Take Hank out of
his stall, groom and saddle him.  Ride for about an hour or so.  It
is now about 6:15.  Unsaddle, groom, pick his stall, sweep the stall
row, feed and water.  It is now close to 7:00.  Leave for home.

Get home about 7:30.  Kiss Larry hello, clean the cat box, pet the
dog, do a load of laundry, eat something light and do the dishes.
It is now around 9:00, and I have just enough time to unwind before
I go to bed around 9:30.  What a day, huh!  (Thank God I don't have
any children!) ???

On Tuesdays and Thursdays I go to College from 7 p.m. to 9 p.m....
I usually visit my Mom before school on those days.  REMEMBER Hank is
in FULL CARE and gets let out ATLEAST 4 hours per day.  So, even if
I don't ride, he still gets out for excersize and gets his stall
cleaned daily.  It's a great arrangement for me, and the barn owner
spoils him and loves him like he was her own!  Lucky for us!!!

Megan, Larry her Fiance, Clyde his Black Lab, Edgar her Black Cat, and
High Action Hank, APHA, her WONDER HORSE!!!
From: gedgingt@ncrsmg.DaytonOH.NCR.COM (George Edgington)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: Animal Rights bashing
Date: 12 Oct 92 15:45:56 GMT
Reply-To: gedgingt@ncrsmg.DaytonOH.NCR.COM (George Edgington)
Distribution: usa
Organization: NCR Systemedia Group Headquarters, Dayton (Miamisburg), Ohio

>>From Michael W. Fox, environmental studies director of the Humane
>>Society of the United States:  "Humane care is simply sentimental,
>>sympathetic patronage.  Human beings aren't superior to the other animals,
>>we're just different."  Humane society literature states that "there
>>is no rational basis for maintaining a moral distinction between the
>>treatment of humans and other animals."
>
>       That does it, now you're saying that the HUMANE SOCIETY is
>in on it too?!  This is only the finest animal humane organization
>in the entire country.  Without them low cost spay/neuter clinics
>would not be available to pet owners across the country.  You have
>finally dropped off the deep end.  I have been very patient and
>reasonable when posting to you, yet each time you have inferred that
>I am some horrible anti-life anti-human, I will not put up with these
>awful insults any longer.  This is totally unreasonable behavior
>and does not belong on the net.  From now on if you want to insult
>me do it by e-mail and stop subjecting the rest of the net to your
>ravings.

Perhaps the Humane Society HAS BEEN the 'finest animal humane organization'
but if they CURRENTLY see no moral distinction between humans and
our animal friends, perhaps we should reappraise their position.
I do not see how a quote from their own literature can be considered
an unwarranted attack against them.

Organizations change as the leadership changes. Is the Humane Society
today the same as it was previously? What are their goals and what
does their CURRENT agenda call for? It is good for all of us to periodically
reassess the organizations which we support.

I have read a couple of books by Dr. Fox, and IMHO he frequently espouses
ideology which seems bizarre. If this is NOW the direction of the 
Humane Society, then it is not what it once was.

We should all critically reassess the positions of organizations which we
support. 

As a regular reader of the net, I APPRECIATE the original INFORMATIVE post.


--
From: sysmatt@aix3090b.uky.edu (Matt Simpson)
Subject: Re: Animal Rights bashing
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 13:30:27 GMT
Distribution: usa

I apologize if my injudicious use of the term "animal rights hysteria" was
interpreted as a slap at all animal rights groups. I think we all agree that
there are some crazy extremists in some of these groups (as in many other
types of groups), and there are a lot of intelligent conscientious people in
them who actually do have valid concerns. I certainly didn't intend to belittle
the efforts of the good guys. I was just trying to make the point that sometimes it's hard to know what to believe, due to the hysteria of the extremists.
--
This signature file exists because our crappy newsreader won't work without it.
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: GC.GGG@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gwyn Gordon)
Subject: Re: Last President to ride horse at White House
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 23:47:26 GMT

In article <Bw68ts.3nu@encore.com>,
jpenovic@wizard.Berkeley.EDU (Jan Penovich) writes:
>In article <1992Oct13.195951.2137@informix.com>, davek@informix.com
>(David Kosenko) writes:
>> about only falling off once in a while?).  Jackie Kennedy was quite an
>> equestrianne, riding with one of the big Virginia hunts. I'm not sure that
>> she kept a horse on the WH grounds, though.
>>
>
>  This probably dates me, but I remember seeing a Life
>  magazine photo of John Kennedy, Caroline, and her paint pony
>  Macaroni in front of the White House.
>


One of the most famous photos of Jacqueline was of her falling off
in the hunt field -- head first over a post-and-rail!  The
photographer (who had called the family and asked her permission to
publish it on the cover of either Time or Life or one of those) was
instantly famous.  There's a book of his photos out...I can't
remember his name but he covered the hunt scene on the East Coast
for literally decades.

=gg
From: wendy@hpfcmgw.FC.HP.COM (Wendy Milner)
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 16:00:04 GMT
Subject: Re: Sentimentality at its worst (or best)
Organization: HP Fort Collins, CO
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian

In rec.equestrian, GC.SUL@forsythe.stanford.edu (Sullivan) writes:
   Now the hard question.  I do not want to start any flame wars but if I have
   to put her down, do I have the vet do it or do I sell her to the meat
   market and get some money out of her.  I know this sounds cold and I really
   agonize over it.  I hear horrible stories of how horses are treated on their
   way to the meat market, then I hear other people say the horrible stories are
   just rumors and horses are not treated that way.  How do you know?


It depends on where you sell your horse.  If you go to an auction, you
have no idea what will happen to your horse.  If you go directly to the
meat market, where they process the meat locally, you can almost be 
assured that the horse will not be transported.  It is in the transportation
that the horses are treated cruely.  Image the horses being packed into
a cattle truck, stuffed in, then hauled cross country with no food or water.
Many die on the way.

On the other hand, if you go to the meat market, the horses are put into
a corral, with food and water, and killed as soon as they can be.

Personally, for the pennies per pound you get, I'd just as soon have the
horse put down by the vet.  It's hard to watch.  But at least you know
your friend went without suffering.

Wendy
From: tracy@scoraz.resp-sci.arizona.edu (Tracy Scheinkman)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: re: human evolution (was: slaughterhouses)
Date: 9 Oct 92 22:43:45 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson, AZ

In an article in rec.equestrian doconnor@sedona.intel.com (Dennis O'Connor)
writes:

>Human beings evolved eating meat, just like wolves, tigers, bears, 
>and a bunch of other animals. 

	Actually this is incorrect.  I learned about this studying for my
B.S. degree in Biology.  Humans evolved eating nuts, berries, grains,
fruits, vegetables, and raw fish.  The evidence is in our teeth and our
digestive tracts, our molars are not sharply serrated they are wide and
relatively flat designed to crush berries and nuts not tear flesh.  We do
not have the large sharp canine teeth of meat eaters and our incisors
are relatively large and well developed for biting into fruit.  Our
digestive tracts deal very well with simple sugars and carbohydrates and
short chain proteins but longer chain proteins are barely digested before
they pass out of the colon, in addition it is necessary for us to cook
(pre-digest) meat in order to get the most benefit out of it.  This is
not the biology of a carnivore.

					Tracy and everybody
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: Impressive syndrome
From: Bliss B. Siman <ROPBB@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Wednesday, 14 Oct 1992 06:07:20 EDT
Distribution: usa
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center

The article in the New York Times was absolutely clear, scientific and no
doubt about it. When I mentioned it to my Vet, he immediately said, "Oh the
Impressive syndrome". It was talked about here on the Net awhile ago but I
didn't pay any attention because I have nothing to do with quarter horses. It
has also been know among Quarter Horse people for awhile. So...if you know the
bloodlines in an individual, there can be no mistake. I couldn't get fertility
insurance for my mare because she has parrot mouth, considered a serious defect
I thought that was funny, but when i see the sweet thing chewing so slowly and
eating so differently from the other horses, I understand that I would be very
careful to breed her to a stallion that didn't have this in his background to
try and avoid it in a foal. AND this defect doesn't cause her pain, she eats
well, lives well, and will, hopefully, live to a ripe old age. That can't be
said about the Impressive line of horses. So, its terribly said about the
breeders, but then those of us who bought expensive apartments in NYC before
the stock market crash, also have had some reverses! But we aren't falling down
in the street because of it!
From: montyb@alpha.aosg.gsf.dec.com (Monty C. Brandenberg)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: re: Animal Rights bashing
Date: 11 Oct 92 20:48:44 GMT
Article-I.D.: aosg.1992Oct11.204844.19056
Distribution: usa
Organization: AOSG

In article <1992Oct9.225936.13922@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu>, tracy@scoraz.resp-sci.arizona.edu (Tracy Scheinkman) writes:
|> In Article 9178 in rec.equestrian doconnor@sedona.intel.com (Dennis O'Connor)
|> writes:
|> 
|> >The proposition as drafted says that game populations must be
|> >"managed by nonlethal means". How is that going to be done ?
|> >Distribute free condoms to the bucks ? How is hunting going
|> >to be allowed given such a requirement.
|> 
|> 	I have read the complete proposition and feel that this section 
|> was put in there to prevent the indiscriminant slaughter of wolves, bears, 
|> and mountain lions just because some rancher decides he feels like it. 
|>
|> [details a number of motivating events and some excessively expensive
|>  alternatives to killing wild animals]

It doesn't matter *why* the section was put in there, only what effects
it will produce.  Game animals are part of the Public Trust.  The various
state and federal wildlife agencies are charged with the management of
that part of the trust.  By legislative action, hunting exists as a tool
with which these departments manage the herds.  If 'lethal means' of
management is then prohibited, then hunting is prohibited.  It appears,
from 2000 miles away, that Prob. 200 doesn't exclude hunting from this
prohibition.

|> 	However you don't have to take my word for it you can call 
|> Arizonans For Safety and Humanity on Public Lands at (602) 257-1020.

Ah, an unbiased opinion not like those from the reactionary NRA...

|> 	This is an example of the negative and false propoganda that 
|> the NRA and other reactionary groups are putting out about this issue.  
|> Why don't you call Arizonans For Safety and Humanity on Public Lands 
|> and ask them your questions I'm sure they would be glad to answer you.

The law will be what is enacted by voting and implemented by the executive,
not what the ASHPL's receptionist decides to give as an answer on the phone
on Monday morning.

					M
From: tracy@scoraz.resp-sci.arizona.edu (Tracy Scheinkman)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: re: human evolution and morphology
Date: 13 Oct 92 22:48:57 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson, AZ

In Article 9226 (12 more) in rec.equestrian jhelms@cns.neusc.bcm.tmc.edu 
(Jill Helms) writes:

>May I just say something here?  The idea that Tracy has presented a morphological
>argument for human beings eating nuts and berries because of the shape of their
>teeth is a new one on me.  I'm a dentist (periodontist) who does research and
>I have never, ever heard of this argument for why teeth have the morphology that
>they have!  Where exactly did you get this information?  I've been at this for
>over 10 years, so I'm not exactly a neophyte... just confused by your arguments!

>Anyway, I'm really much more interested in horses than in talking about tooth
>morphology, but I thought I'd jump in when the conversation veared into my area
>of expertise.

>Jill and Follow Your Bliss (all teeth intact on both of us)

	Biologists and Paleontologists have been using dental data for many
years to determine the eating habits of various critters.  When I was
in Monterey in 1975 studying sea otters the senior scientist (whose name
I can't recall exactly right now) discussed the unique dentition of sea
otters with us showing us how those teeth (very strange sort of a rounded
anvil shape with smooth curves and a dimple in the middle) was ideally
designed for crushing the soft bodies of muscles, clams, and abalone.
We discussed different dental design at that time.  Also in classes on
Physical Geography this question came up again, and later in other classes.
Without dental evidence Paleontologists would find it very difficult to 
determine what an extinct species ate.
	For example (to bring this whole discussion 'round to horses which
is why we are all here) there are distinct changes in the dentition of
early horses marking the change over from browsing on leaves to grazing
grass.  Little Eohippus was I believe if memory serves a browser, while
somewhere around Mesohippus or Pliohippus I can't remember for sure
dental evidence shows a change over to grazing as a way of life (though
from all wood chewers we have amongst modern equines I wonder if some
beaver blood slipped in there :-)).  It could have been with Merychippus
that the change over occured, I can't remember for certain.  Guess we'll
all have to get our horse books out tonight and look it up!

				Tracy and everybody
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: meganb@sequent.com (Megan Breninger)
Subject: IT'S DONE!!!
Followup-To: Hank's cancer.
Summary: Hank's tumors are now froze!
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 14:51:06 GMT

Well, the (new) vet, Dr. Gary Dillon, came out last eve at about
4:00 p.m., and FROZE Hanks cancerous tumors!!!  The old vet, as
you all can remember, wanted to do surgery, and charge me from
$300 to $500 dollars...Dr. Dillon did the whole procedure for
$94.00!!!

First, Dr. Dillon wasn't sure he wanted to tranquilize Hank, but
decided that, because the temperature of the freezing liquid is
about 180 BELOW zero, it might sting a bit, so, Dr. Dillon just
gave Hank a very low dose of the tranquilizer.  But, even with the
low dose, Hank nearly went down acouple of times!  Dr. Dillon said,
and I quote "If I would have given this same amount of tranquilizer
to an Arab that weighs 300 pounds less than Hank, that Arab would
still be bouncing off of the walls!"  Dr. Dillon bases his amount
of tranquilizer on the horses disposition and temperment, and, with
seeing Hank for the pre-treatment exam, he knew that Hank was soooo
laid back that he wouldn't require much!

Anyway, after the freezing, (and, BTW, I'd never had a horse
tranquilized before, so it was really scarey for me nearly seeing
Hank go down and be out of control!) Virginia ("goose" on the net!)
stayed around to talk.  (Thanks, Virginia!)  I went to walk across
the arena, and Hank turned stumbling chasing to catch up with me!
I stopped in my tracks, turned around to face him, and he came to
me and laid his head against my chest, where we stood for what
seemed like forever...me crying 'cause I thought it was sooo sweet
that he didn't want me to leave him, and him sleeping!  (Of course!)
It was such an effectionate move on his part, something I will never
forget!  He really does "love" me!  When the tranq started wearing off
more and more, he moved around on his owm somewhat, but still didn't
stray and didn't want me too far away from him.  It wasn't until
almost 3 hours after the treatment that he finally felt confident
enough for me to leave the arena all together.

We played some soccer (I kick the ball his way, and he either chases
it or runs from it) until around 7:00, then I picked his feet (already
brushed him before the treatment) and put him away.  All his
"facilities" were working fine, and he didn't seem to pay any mind to
the areas that had been treated.  He was perky and a happy boy when I
left.  What a trooper!!!

So, in about 6 to 8 weeks these tumors should have all sluffed off.
There is no off time involved, no stitches, no nothing.  I can ride
today, no problem.  We have 3 shows soon, the 1st, 7th and 14th of
Novemeber, all at McKay Creek Farm in Hillsboro, Oregon.  Wish us
luck!!!

Megan, Larry her Fiance, Clyde his Black Lab, Edgar her Black Cat, and
High Action Hank, APHA, her WONDER MIRACLE HORSE!!!
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: GC.GGG@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gwyn Gordon)
Subject: re: human evolution (was: slaughterhouses)
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 18:28:43 GMT

In article <1992Oct11.203230.18579@aosg.gsf.dec.com>,
montyb@alpha.aosg.gsf.dec.com (Monty C. Brandenberg) writes:
>In article <1992Oct9.224345.13636@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu>, tracy@scoraz.resp-sci.arizona.edu (Tracy Scheinkman) writes:
>|> In an article in rec.equestrian doconnor@sedona.intel.com (Dennis O'Connor)
>|> writes:
>|>
>|> >Human beings evolved eating meat, just like wolves, tigers, bears,
>|> >and a bunch of other animals.
>|>
>|>      Actually this is incorrect.  I learned about this studying for my
>|> B.S. degree in Biology.  Humans evolved eating nuts, berries, grains,
>|> fruits, vegetables, and raw fish.  [etc.]
>
>Tracy
>
>This and the animal rights vs animal welfare thread suggest that you should
>be a little more attentive to language.  Dennis made an anthropological statement
>('Humans evolved eating meat') that is correct; hunting predates the appearance
>of Homo Sapiens Sapiens.  You replied with a morphological statement, basically
>that man is not well-suited to meat eating, that, while correct, isn't a logical
>refutation of Dennis' statement.  Sloppy reasoning isn't going to impress those
>you try to sway...
>
>                                                Monty



Within the very quote you use here, Dennis says "Human beings
evolved eating meat." Tracy responds with "Humans evolved eating
nuts, berries,...." and THEN goes on to ADD a morphological
statment. My understanding is that she has therefore doubly refuted
Dennis' argument, by responding with both anthropological AND
morphological evidence.

How is this "sloppy reasoning"? Besides, this isn't debate school,
it's an exchange of opinion. Mellow out, huh?

=gwyn

ps: This is just an observation, not support or refutation of
anyone's argument.
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: 6042230@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Subject: Re: HELP: ARAB BLOODLINES
Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space Company, Inc.
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 92 15:18:05 GMT

------------------------- Original Article -------------------------
From: deniseo@hpmwtd.sr.hp.com (Denise O'Connor)
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 19:30:37 GMT
Subject: HELP: ARAB BLOODLINES
Organization: HP Santa Rosa Site (SRSD MWTD)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian

 Can anyone comment on the Spanish Arab bloodlines given below.  I am
 interested in any good/bad points, or any knowledge about any of it.
 So far I haven't found any one who can comment about the lines, so if
 anybody has any comment, please, please, please, send it on to me.

 Thanks - Denise


							BARQUILLO
 					ORIVE
							GALATIFE
 			GARBO
							MAQUILLO
 					BALDOSA
							HABLDURIA
 	UVAL
							GANDHY
 					MALVITO
 							EGINA
 			CANTINERA II
							MAQUILLO
 					URAL
							CIBELES


							ILUSTRE
 					CONGO
							TRIANA
 			ZANCUDO
							CAMELO I
 					YAIMA
							MANICURA
 	OCALINA II
							SIRIO III
 					SIRIO IV
							ARMIDA
			OCALINA
							KASHMIR
					FARINA
							LAMPARA

 She was a yearling when she was imported from Spain, she is eight now.
 There were imports into spain further back in her lines, such as
 URSUS, SEANDERICH, RAZADA, REYNA, where did they come from?


Denise;

I have a friend who has several straight Spanish mares. I'll try to check with
her this weekend (if I can catch her at home) regarding any info she can give
about these horeses you listed.  I also live down the road from Los Acres,
who has a beautiful straight Spanish stallion (*Sidi Brahim). They breed
straight Spanish and Spanish/Fadjur crosses. They might be a good source of
info also.

Donna Ferreira
From: clarefg@bestbet.Eng.Sun.COM (Clare Fleig Garry)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: half pass vs leg yield (was flying changes)
Date: 13 Oct 1992 16:40:35 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Distribution: world
Reply-To: clarefg@bestbet.Eng.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: bestbet

At a dressage clinic this weekend, I ran into something very different 
that also seems to fit under the leg yield umbrella.  The instructor was
asking all of the riders to have their horses cross their hind leg on
the circle.  This is for balence and suppleness.

It was accomplished by using loose outside rein and tight inside rein and
lots of outside leg.  Reggie was able to do this but it was very tough as 
we have only been in training for 12 weeks and he was a weekend horse
for three years before I bought him.

Has anyone ever used this technique in their dressage work and if so,
has a made a difference?  I am leery of doing to much of this at our level
as Reg seemed to get a bit sore.  

Clare and Reggie

Newsgroups: rec.equestrian