From: hcobb@fly2.berkeley.edu (Henry J. Cobb)
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
Subject: GEV: cross-posting from the OGRE's BBS.
Date: 13 Dec 92 05:48:29
Organization: /rubin/hcobb/.organization
NNTP-Posting-Host: fly2.berkeley.edu


	As spotted on SJG's BBS: (512) 447-4449

  85: Permission granted to echo this sub-
  By: Steve Jackson  [2]
Date: 00:09  11/30/92

board to rec.games.board. Henry Cobb tells me that somebody wanted to
do that. It's fine with me, as an experiment, until further notice,
and provided that whoever wants to do it will also bundle up the
relevant posts from rec.games.board and put them back here.

  86: Another general question:
  By: Steve Jackson  [2]
Date: 00:11  11/30/92

Right now, except for a couple of cybertanks, every unit that is
available to any army in OGRE is available to all the others. Between
design piracy, captured units, and whole captured factories, 
everybody has SOME sort of Heavy Tank with effectively identical stats.
Ditto GEV, missile tank and so on.

I did that very much on purpose, because I didn't want "Oh, shoot, I
can't have that unit because my army never built any" to get in the
way of the game. How do others feel about this?

  87: I like it...
  By: Doctor Z  [232]
Date: 20:16  11/30/92

except for those couple of Cybertanks...Right now, the Paneuropeans have no 
cybertank with a move of 8", and I think they should have at least on...Maybe 
upgrade the Fencer, call it a Fencer-B, up the points to 150-160, same 
weapons, same treads (Convieniently divisible by 6 AND).

New unit idea: Mortar Squads. These troops would have a range of 6" instead of 
2", due to being equipped with all sorts of light artillery rockets, mortars, 
etc...Cost 3 points per squad. Too powerful? make points cost 4, extend range 
to 8" Just an idea...

I'd like to see rules for an emplaced Ogre missile...

Question: What are the effects of revetments in defensive terrain? Does a 
revetment have its defense bonus doubled in towns? Tripled if it has infantry 
in it? Or do you just add the +2 defense to whatever value of defense is 
already there (I.E. a three-squad infantry in a town, normally 9 defense, 
would have 11.) Or is there no bonus to revetments at all? (The town's 
providing all the cover.)


  88: Just out of curiosity...
  By: Doctor Z  [232]
Date: 20:18  11/30/92

Just which models will be in the next set of releases from Ral Partha?

  89: Answers!
  By: Steve Jackson  [2]
Date: 16:22  12/2/92

Revetments, like other defensive bonuses, fall under the Multiply First, Then 
Add rule. See p. 32. So an armor unit in a revetment in town is doubled for 
the town, then +2 for the revetment.

The next set of releases from Partha will be:
Fencer (design by Mike Naylor, low-slung and spiky)
Heavy Tank
Missile Tank
GEV (yes, the Combine GEV rides again)
Howitzer
Light Tank

  90: Echoing to rec.games.board
  By: Steve Jackson  [2]
Date: 23:47  12/6/92

If somebody decides to do this, please let us all know by posting here.

  91: GEV vs SFB, FAQ.
  By: hcobb  [64]
Date: 08:13  12/9/92

      I'll be redoing the infantry posting (to bring it up to date with the
new infantry types, as well as my continued confusion about infantry cost
modifiers).  When I'm done I'll post both here and on rec.games.btech, until
then enjoy: ( ;-)


--------------------SFB vs GEV: FAQ--------------------

Q: Whats the Difference between Star Fleet Battles and Ogre/GEV?

A:

                        GEV            SFB
Tactical Game                   Y             Y
Based on:
      TV Show                   N             Y
      Movies                   N            Not really
      Sci-Fi Books             Y             Y
exploits of oversexed Captain?       N             Y

Game designed by power-mad
      Texan?                   Y             Y

Has Robotic Units?             Y             Y
Has Giant Humanoid Robots?       N             N
Has Starfighters?             Y             Y
Has Giant planet killing ships?       N             N
Has cloaking devices?             N             Y
    with hidden movement?      --             N (strange, isn't it?)      

Each hex represents:            1 mile            10,000 km
Each Turn lasts:            4 min            1/20th sec
Time taken to play turn:      2 min            30 min
Time taken to learn rules:      30 min            Nobody ever has...

Game requires extensive
"energy and systems" plotting?       N             Y

Game has funky turn-mode and
weapon arcs rules?             N             Y

Separate infantry game:            out of print.      Unreleased
Miniatures rules:             Y            not yet.
Computer game availible:       Y             N
      by FTP?                  ;-)            --

Minimum dice required:             1             2
shape of dice required:            cubes            cubes

Basic Game costs:            $10            $30
complete game costs:            $25            >$200

Mr Cobb
    runs e-mail list on:       Y             Y
    runs PBeM games:             Y             Y
      With slots for new
            players?      maybe.             N

  92: I like it. Be sure to stick THAT
  By: Steve Jackson  [2]
Date: 22:28  12/9/92

on rec.games.board.

  93: Interesting idea for OGRE phasing
  By: Steve Jackson  [2]
Date: 22:33  12/9/92

came up today at playtest. We were discussing the fact that a tactical retreat 
in OGRE is a bad idea - the rules are designed to encourage you to shoot and 
keep shooting, not to run away.

Somebody - I think it was Ray - pointed out that if a unit had the option of 
firing either at the beginning OR the end of its turn (or, logical corollary, 
at any time during the turn), that a retreat in the face of superior firepower 
would become a valid tactic. Assuming that you have someplace friendly to 
retreat TO.

Obviously, it adds bookkeeping. If a unit fires before moving, you must tag it 
appropriately, to make sure that no unit ever fires twice.

Wonder what it does to the flavor of the game? I'll try to find out for 
myself, but I'd like to know what other people think if they try it.

(Change of subject. I have a batch of preliminary notes from Mike Naylor and 
David Graham re: KILLING ZONE, the next Ogre Minis book. Will try to 
transcribe them and post for comments.)

  94: If you did that...
  By: Doctor Z  [232]
Date: 21:34  12/11/92

how would a GEV work? Fire, and then take all 14" of movement? It would be an 
interesting option, but that would have to be addressed.

When are the next batch of models (Fencer, etc.) expected out?

  95: Ogre split move.
  By: hcobb  [64]
Date: 11:13  12/12/92

      The split move feature might best be applied to OGREs.

      Just let the OGRE declare how many inches of movement it will
take in its first movement phase.

      Then it moves that ammount and then fires.

      The rest of its movement it gets to take on its 2nd movement phase.

      The entire hack can be blamed on "Robotic reflexes".

      This would settle the question of the Move 10" OGRE. (If a "fair"
Ogre Construction System can ever be aggred upon...)

      DANGER WILL ROBINSON!  Mark IVs leapfrog the Mark Vs and become very
nasty critters indeed under this scheme!  (Please, Steve: take a split-moving
Mark IV up against 300 points of "convential" defence in a "crush the CP" type
game before you OK this one...).

  96: About the MSL-GEV...
  By: Vecna  [697]
Date: 22:01  12/12/92



     I really like this idea, but Dr. Z is right.  It is too powerful.  The 
only idea I have about fixing this problem (besides forgetting the idea), is 
to assume that the missile needs a stable platform to be launched.  Thus, the 
MSL-GEV cannot fire on a turn that it has moved, but it still can move quickly 
across the board to get where it needs to be.

                                    Vecna
--
	Henry J. Cobb	hcobb@fly2.berkeley.edu	SFB Tyrant
	"Once it becomes possible to do something, it gets very difficult to
undo it.  Whether its automobiles, computers or nuclear weapons, invention has
always been the mother of necessity."