HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ammg2052@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Aaron M. Moy)
Subject: RE: Bird Illness
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 08:36:32 GMT


In response to the Susan Kennedy tiel story:

First let me express my condolences.

From the description of events, I would conclude that the cause of the illness
was unlikely a contagious disease.  Most communicable diseases cause death in
a matter of days, like Pacheco's or Psittacosis.  I tend to suspect that the
loss of blood during her maternal period is a likely cause.  Feeding baby
birds is the most stressful and exhausting part of breeding.  A four-week old
cockatiel can hold 10-15 cc of food in their crop, which is 2 to 3 times more
than an adult crop can hold.  Multiply this by 4, and you have one very 
stressed out mother.

The loss of blood may have lead to the premature death.  Since Stormy was
already stressed, her body and immune system were in a weakened state.  She
may have been fighting off an infection after her blood loss.  During her
battle with the pathogens, irreversible damage may have occured to her organs.
Even though the infection was successfully fought, her internal organs may
have lost their ability to function properly.

Other possible causes include exposure to sudden climate change or egg binding.

With all due respect to your vet, is he/she an avian vet?  It seems his/her    
reaction to the sick bird was "treat for Psittacosis."  Although this is a
good precaution to take, there are volumes full of other ailments which an
experienced avian vet might recognize.  Indeed, good avain vets are hard to
find, but they're invaluable to the bird owner.

In any cause of bird trauma, it is always important to provide immediate 
medical attention.  For loss of blood cases, I would remove the bird from his
normal cage or flight and try to put him in a brooder, or any warm, clean 
environment.  Antibiotic, either internal or external, should be applied based
on your vet's advice.  Always be aware of any changes in the birds habits or
stool condtion, as these may be early signs of illness.  Unfortunately, the
birds rarely look sick before it's too late.

Aaron Moy
ammg2052@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
"The Baby's Nest" Hand-Fed Birds
Urbana, Illinois
(217) 328-1838

Newsgroups: rec.pets.birds
From: wiegand@rtsg.mot.com (Robert Wiegand)
Subject: Re: building large bird cage?
Reply-To: motcid!wiegand@uunet.uu.net
Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 20:18:22 GMT

marg@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Margarita Suarez) writes:


>i'm looking to give my pair of lovebirds a larger cage to romp around in
>-- the one they're in seems much too small.  i figure if i'm going to
>upgrade, i might as well give them as much room as possible.

>i have an area about 3' x 3' where i'd put the cage (height doesn't
>matter much -- i have high ceilings).  i did some looking around, and
>pet stores in manhattan are quoting me prices in the $700 range (gack!).

>i'd like to make my own cage, but i understand there could be problems
>with the birds gnawing their way out if i use wood.

>has anybody made their own cage?  can you provide advice (better,
>plans)?

I don't have plans, but I do have a suggestion. Make sure that any wire
screening you use has the correct wire spacing for the size of the birds.
The birds should not be able to put their heads through the bars of the
cage. Also be carefull about how the wire mesh was made. You don't
want your birds chewing on lead solder from the cage wire.

There are also cages available much cheaper than $700. Check around some
more, or even try mail order. Any bird magazine should have lots of
advertismants for cages.

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Wiegand - Motorola Inc.
motcid!wiegand@uunet.uu.net            uunet!motcid!wiegand
Disclamer: I didn't do it - I was somewhere else at the time.
From: Ellen.Kessler@bird.com (Ellen Kessler)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.birds
Subject: Re: HAVE NO FEAR! (WAS:B&G MACAW)
Date: 20 Nov 92 02:00:02 GMT

I'm afraid to say that you were very lucky Tom! Even the most experienced
handfeeders might have an accident and aspirate a baby bird. Just call some of
the labs that necropsy these ill-fated babies if you don't believe me..

I have been breeding cockatiels, lovebirds and African Greys for a number of
years and will not sell an unweaned baby to an inexperienced handfeeder.
Sometimes I'm reluctant to sell them to experienced people just because
handfeeding techniques vary from person to person. However, since the myths
persist that one must finish the handfeeding if you want the bird to bond to
you, I offer the following recommendation to anyone considering adopting an
unweaned bird....MAKE SURE THE BREEDER EXPLAINS over and over and over again
how it's done. How hot should the formula be? How thick? How often should the
bird be fed? What if the crop isn't empty at its appointed time? What if the
bird refused to eat? And finally, handfeed the baby in the breeder's presence
for several feedings if not several days before you take the little life into
your own hands. You may think you're feeding the bird enough, but it could be
slowly starving to death if it's not getting the right amount or thickness.
I've heard of too many cases where this happens. So please don't be too quick
to say that handfeeding is easy. It's not.
 * Origin: Bird Info Network Gateway 303-423-9775 (1:104/234)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.birds
From: wiegand@rtsg.mot.com (Robert Wiegand)
Subject: Re: Seriously considering purchase of B&G Macaw
Keywords: purchase, macaw
Reply-To: motcid!wiegand@uunet.uu.net
Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 15:47:16 GMT

julie@horizon.com (Julie DiVona) writes:

>Now for the questions:

>1.  They tell me at the store that the birds have not been
>    weaned yet and that it will be another three to four weeks
>    before they are.  Should I let the bird stay at the store
>    until it is fully weaned or should I go ahead and take him
>    and wean him myself?  I get conflicting reports from Bird
>    Talk regarding which is best.  I have not hand fed birds before
>    but understand the process and know that these birds are only
>    being handfed two to three times a day.

From what I've heard it really doesn't make much difference to the
"pet-quality" of the bird. I've heard opinions both ways, but in any
case the difference is small. It mostly comes down to you confidence in
doing the hand feeding yourself. For myself, I left my Grey with the
breeder until it was fully weaned. This may sound a little cold, but
it was just too expensive to take a chance that I might mess it up.

>2.  I need positive and negative reactions to owning one of these
>    beautiful birds.

I've never had a Macaw, so I can't give an opinion on them.
With any large bird its very important that you start behaviour training
right from day 1. If you don't maintain control it will cause major
problems.

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Wiegand - Motorola Inc.
motcid!wiegand@uunet.uu.net            uunet!motcid!wiegand
Disclamer: I didn't do it - I was somewhere else at the time.
Newsgroups: rec.pets.birds
From: wiegand@rtsg.mot.com (Robert Wiegand)
Subject: Re: How to convert 'tiel to pellets?
Reply-To: motcid!wiegand@uunet.uu.net
Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 20:23:43 GMT

billg@hpspdla.spd.HP.COM (Bill Gingras) writes:


>Well, it turns out to be not as easy as I thought to convert my 'tiel to
>Roudybush 'tiel food.  So, very quickly, what is the "preferred" method
>of converting a bird to pelleted food?

Its never easy - seeds taste better. You have to restrict the amount of
seed you give the birds to force them to eat the pellets. Don't
cut them off of seeds all at once, but you have to start reducing
the amount you give them.

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Wiegand - Motorola Inc.
motcid!wiegand@uunet.uu.net            uunet!motcid!wiegand
Disclamer: I didn't do it - I was somewhere else at the time.
From: dlcogswe@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Dan Cogswell)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.birds
Subject: Re: Here Pretty Bird! Heeeeere, Pretty Bird!
Date: 19 Nov 92 01:49:22 GMT
Article-I.D.: vela.dlcogswe.722137762
Organization: Oakland University, Rochester MI.

tewok@cs.umd.edu (Wayne Morrison) writes:

>Thanks to all who have and who will answer my request for information.
>I'm going to call the Dr. D and try to get some info from them about
>their pellets.

I thought I'd add my 2 cents to this Pretty Bird discussion.  I visited
a pet shop today and inquired about the Pretty Bird that the lady was
selling.  She swears by it and said, "This is a result of Pretty Bird,"
pointing to her 2 year old Blue and Gold Macaw.  This bird is gorgeous.
I've never seen a bird with such perfect feathers, beak and weight.  I
am not saying that this is solely because of Pretty Bird, but this bird
sure didn't look sick!  I bought some and brought it home for my Blue
and Gold and he's actually eating it (instead of digging through it
looking for the raisins and grapes).  My bird is young and I've been
worried that he hasn't been eating enough, but it looks like this is a
pellet he may actually enjoy.

Your mileage may vary, of course... :-)

-- 
Dan Cogswell               Or as we say in Michigan:  "Dee-troit"
From: Ellen.Kessler@bird.com (Ellen Kessler)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.birds
Subject: Re: NEED REFERENCE ON PET BIRD BEHA
Date: 20 Nov 92 01:52:24 GMT

I had green cheek conures for four years and would recommend that you look for
Robbie Harris' book called Breeding Conures. Despite the title, it does talk
about behavior to a degree.

Please don't be concerned that your little guy is taking so many baths! They
love the water, and I'm almost surprised he doesn't take a bath EVERY day.
Bathing is good for them...it stimulates preening and keeps those feathers
looking shiny and healthy.

I wish I could answer your questions about the noises your little guy is
making, but my conures were not handfed pets; they were meant to be breeders.
The screaming when you leave the room, however, is a learned behavior that
probably needs to be corrected. I suspect that when he starts screaming, you go
to him and give him attention. He's getting EXACTLY what he wants by your doing
that! it sounds like he's got you well trained! (g) I'm not a behaviorist, but
from what I understand, you should NOT reward the screaming behavior by running
to him. Instead, ignore him and hopefully he will stop screaming when he
realizes he's not getting his way. But since you'd be offering the opposite
behavior of what he's used to, it may take a while to break him of this habit.

Good luck with your little guy! You've made a wonderful choice!
 * Origin: Bird Info Network Gateway 303-423-9775 (1:104/234)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.birds
From: wiegand@rtsg.mot.com (Robert Wiegand)
Subject: Re: Talking birds
Reply-To: motcid!wiegand@uunet.uu.net
Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 20:13:02 GMT

shazam@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu writes:

>I disagree with the statement that handraised birds you have a better
>chance of having a talker.  It is simply not true.  *smile*  I 
>suppose it may depend on the bird, but birds that are known talkers,
>birds that are male....will probably talk regardless if they were
>hand raised or not.  My Congo African Grey was captured in Africa
>when he was around a year old, I was told by the person I bought him 
>from.  He has never really been handled much and he is over 8 years old.
>He mimics EVERYTHING!  *smile*  He whistles songs, he mimics me when 
>I lose my voice (VERY aggravating *laugh*), he does commericials, rings
>the telephone, makes my computer noises....you name it, if he hears it
>he will mimic it.  *smile*  I have not had to work with him much at all.
>He talked before I got him, and I bought him when he was 7 years old.

>I do agree that handraised babies do make the best pets.  There is no
>doubt about it.  My other bird is a cockatiel I have had since he was
>7 weeks.  He was weaned when I got him, but he bonded to me immediately.
>And he talks up a storm too.  *smile*  But I taught him to talk.

This depends on the type of bird. Its true that with some types such
as African Greys, even the wild birds are good talkers, but this is not
true for all types of birds. For parrots in general I believe its
true that hand feds are better talkers, but there are exceptions.

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Wiegand - Motorola Inc.
motcid!wiegand@uunet.uu.net            uunet!motcid!wiegand
Disclamer: I didn't do it - I was somewhere else at the time.
From: kevin@msus1.msus.edu
Newsgroups: rec.pets.birds
Subject: RE: Left/Right handedness
Date: 23 Nov 92 21:25:02 -0600
Organization: Metro State U, Minneapolis MN

In article <By78wB.6pw@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, ammg2052@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Aaron M. Moy) writes:
> 
> It is normal for parrots, especially the ones that eat with their feet, to 
> favor a certain foot.  I believe that most amazons are left-footed.  As for

My Meyer's is definitely a righty!  His favorite hobbies are chasing golf balls
off the top of his cage and seeing how many times he can get my girlfriend to
pick up the pieces of carrot we give him. :)
-- 
============================================================================
Kevin Whyte						kevin@msus1.msus.edu
	**Representing and speaking for no one but myself.**
"Still, the best augers are those who divine from the portents of the past. 
They compile phenomenal records." Croaker "The Black Company" by Glen Cook

Newsgroups: rec.pets.birds
From: oday@lobster.gsfc.nasa.gov  (Orin Day)
Subject: Re: Falconry
Reply-To: oday@lobster.gsfc.nasa.gov  (Orin Day)
Organization: Goddard Space Flight Center
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 03:28:40 GMT

In article <1992Nov23.200032.21398@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov>  
bur@ultisol.gsfc.nasa.gov (MAC) writes:
> 
> 
> I do not usually read this group so forgive me if this topic is covered in
> the FAQ(if there is one).  Are Falconry related topics discussed in this
> group?

Mike, I've seen falconry discussed occasionally in this group
since the split from rec.birds last year.  Maybe those lurkers
are still reading.

I'm not sure of any falconry clubs up here - let me think about
where you could look.  Perhaps the phone book, and I'll ask 
around too.

Best of luck

Orin

--
************* "How about a little fire, Scarecrow?" **************
Orin Day, Code 664.1                    oday@lobster.gsfc.nasa.gov
Hughes STX/NASA       GSFC Laboratory for High Energy Astrophysics
*******"Think that this is NASA's opinion?   NO, NO, NO!!!" ******
From: tewok@cs.umd.edu (Wayne Morrison)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.birds
Subject: Here Pretty Bird!  Heeeeere, Pretty Bird!
Keywords: Holy War, feed
Date: 17 Nov 92 13:07:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: mimsy.62133
Followup-To: tewok@tis.com

In recent weeks, I have seen a few comments here that lead me to
believe that Pretty Bird isn't looked on too highly.  (I don't remember
comments or the names of people who made them, so you'll have to trust
me.)  If this is so, could I please get some information about why it's
not good (as well as where this info came from, if possible.)  If you
have something else you swear by, I'd like to know what it is and where
I can order it from.  When I bought my pair of African Greys, they came
with a big bag of Pretty Bird.  The bag will soon be empty and I'd like
to know if something else would be better for them.

				Thanks!!!
				Wayne Morrison
Newsgroups: rec.pets.birds
From: kennesm@sinistral.network.com (Susan Kennedy)
Subject: bird illness ideas
Originator: kennesm@sinistral
Organization: Network Systems Corporation
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 20:54:13 GMT

I recently had to have my sweet 3 year old female cockatiel put down, and
in an effort to correct anything wrong in the bird environment, I am
asking netters for suggestions on her illness.

I had 2 female hand-raised cockatiels living together, and also have in
a separate cage, a 15 year old male cockatiel and a canary wing parakeet.
In the summer of 1991, when Stormy was 2, she laid and successfully
incubated 4 eggs by herself.  The male was not bonded to her and had no
part in this part.  I had no intentions of having babies, but thought
that by getting her a nest box that she would get this maternal stuff out
of her system.  I helped her by doing some hand feeding of her babies.
During this time, she had an additional stress because one of the other
birds bit off her toe, and she lost a lot of blood.  When her babies were
about 4 weeks old, I noticed that she had stopped feeding them, and she looked
sick.  I took her to the vet, where they treated her for suspected
psitacosis (sp?).  Ten days later she came home, and, although she was
a bit thin, seemed to recover.  A cultured test was never done.  This fall
she suddenly seemed weak on one side.  I took her to the vet, where she
was treated again for suspected psitacosis.  The vet also tried steroid
drops.  After a month or so, it became apparent that she was continuing
to get worse.  We agreed that it was best to put her down.  This time there
were 3 psitacosis tests done (2 cultured), and all 3 were negative.  The
vet did a necropsy, and said that there were no diagnostic signs other
than that she had had a stroke at some time.

She ate a less-than-perfect but decent diet of sprouted corn, sprouted 
sunnies and parakeet seed, broccoli, romaine, monkey biscuit, Avicakes,
and dry parakeet seed with a small amount of sunnies and safflower seeds.
My other birds appear fine.  Please email any suggestions you have of what 
might cause a stroke at that young age.  Thanks!

-- 
Susan Kennedy    Network Systems Corp.    Minneapolis, MN  USA
(kennesm@sinistral.network.com)

Newsgroups: rec.pets.birds
From: distef@carson.u.washington.edu (Sandra Distefano)
Subject: Re: Birdie Bouncing!
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 20:46:25 GMT

cdt@zoo.bt.co.uk (Clive Dennet-Thorpe) writes:


>Hi!!

>I  have 4 budgies, 2 of each and they all live in a large flight.
>I have become concerned lately because the 2 males have formed
>a couple. Steven and Leo spend a great deal of time feeding each other
>and flirting!

>What really concerns me though is that the two females seem to be
>changing sex. Their ceres have turned from brown to pale blue.

>Is colour change normal in females????????

>What does it mean??????????????

>Is it related to Steve & Leo getting it on????

>Neither female seems interested in any of the other three.

Cere color is not conclusive for sexing a budgie.  There are 
some color mutations which make cere color sexing useless, and
in the other color mutations, it still is only about 85%
correct according to my old avian vet.  In addition to cere
color he uses both behavior and biting strength to decide with
95% certainty what sex a budgie is.  

Biting strength:  Females bite a lot harder and they don't give
up.  Males bite, but they give up once they figure out that
you won't let go just because he's biting.  (I'm talking about
biting when you have to grab them to trim nails or clip wings.)
This was DEFINATELY true with my pair.

Behavior:  When females reach sexual maturity they become dominant
over the males (hen pecked is a very good term in budgies).  Males
tend to do more bobbing (sexual behavior) although females do 
this occasionally.  Males kept alone will often get very horny
and will try to copulate with various objects.  I don't know if
males kept with other budgies do that or not.

In any case, what I'm trying to say is that you may not have 
two males and two females.  If you have their sexes correct,
you just may be seeing weird dominance behaviors (that's just
a guess on my part).  

Sandra
distef@u.washington.edu
Newsgroups: rec.pets.birds
From: l670899@lmsc5.is.lmsc.lockheed.com (John Vierra)
Subject: Conure (Again)
Followup-To: rec.pets.birds
Organization: lockheed
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 21:06:50 GMT

Thanks to all the netters who offered such helpful advice about my new
mitred conure.  He seems to be acclimating well, and I do believe that I
saw him eat a pellet!  Which I have been mixing in gradually increasing
ammounts each day to his old seed/nut mix.  I am taking him to the vet
tomorrow to have his wings clipped, nails trimmed, and a general check-up. 
 

As far as taming him down enough to be handled, I was warned by a few
people to expect to get bitten a few times.  Exactly how hard can he bite
me?  Sould I expect him to just pinch me, or is it more like missing
fingers?  He is still doing what I call his little dance of death, he
swings his headaround while pacing back and forth on his perch and swoops
at the air with his open beak.  Is this what it appears to be, a sign of
agression, or is he just frightened?

Thanks in advance.
************* John Vierra                            "A tense office is a
productive      
* (ph) 408/743-0143                                                       
office".                          
* (FX) 408/742-2563                                                        
        - V. A. Madrid    
* id L670899@lmsc5.is.lmsc.lockheed.com                                    
                           
Newsgroups: rec.pets.birds
From: ammg2052@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Aaron M. Moy)
Subject: RE: Greenwing or Scarlet
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 00:24:52 GMT


In response to Daniel Wofford's questions:

1) Given choice of the two, I would buy the Greenwing.  I base my decision on
   the opinion that the Greenwings remain much more tame and adorable than
   the scarlets when they reach maturity.  I'm sure there are many sweet
   scarlets out there, but on the average at least Greenwings remain better
   pets.

2) $1500 is a resonable price for a scarlet and a good price for a greenwing.
   Just make sure that the bird is healthy and was raised in calm, sanitary
   conditions.

3) I have never bred macaws myself, but it surely wouldn't be as easy as
   smaller birds.  If the bird has bonded to you, then it may be VERY difficult
   to get him/her to bond with a mate, let alone breed.  Personally, I can't
   imagine breeding a pet.  By breeding, you may lose that special bond you
   have developed with your bird.  I wouldn't want to risk it.

If you do buy a macaw, please be sure not to spoil him/her.  Often the big
birds will become accustomed to receiving plenty of attention when they are
babies.  A few years down the road, you may not be able to spend as much time
with your bird.  Your pet may then be prone to tantrums and screaming in order
to get your attention.

Most importantly, never let your bird get the best of you.  You should always
establish yourself as the dominant one.  Once the bird feels a sense of
superiority, his personality will probably become more independent and 
agressive.  The pet/master relationship is much more rewarding when your
bird knows that YOU are the BOSS.


Aaron Moy
ammg2052@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
"The Baby's Nest" Hand-Fed BIrds
Urbana,Illinois
(217) 328-1838

Newsgroups: rec.pets.birds
From: wiegand@rtsg.mot.com (Robert Wiegand)
Subject: Re: Here Pretty Bird! Heeeeere, Pretty Bird!
Reply-To: motcid!wiegand@uunet.uu.net
Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 19:31:54 GMT

billg@hpspdla.spd.HP.COM (Bill Gingras) writes:

>Do birds really have that highly developed a sense of taste?  I mean,
>after all, they do seem to hull seeds and eat them whole.  I'd think
>they'd be more discriminatory with texture than taste.

Yes birds have a quite good sense of taste.
Wild birds don't just eat seed. They eat lots of different things.
Only captive birds, with owners who don't know better, live on only seed.

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Wiegand - Motorola Inc.
motcid!wiegand@uunet.uu.net            uunet!motcid!wiegand
Disclamer: I didn't do it - I was somewhere else at the time.