HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Feedback to the Forth Interest Group
Date: 15 Apr 92 12:09:27 GMT
Organization: (n.) to be organized.  But that's not important right now.


 Date: 04-12-92 (05:06)              Number: 31039 of 31044
   To: ANIL RODRIX                   Refer#: 31028
 From: STEFAN BAKER                    Read: NO
 Subj: FEEDBACK TO THE FORTH INT     Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE
 Conf: FORTH (58)                 Read Type: GENERAL (+)

 AR   I could use a PC Forth if I/O to discs, files, serial ports were
      cleary and concisely described - simple screen control would be
      helpful.

        Yup.  The main complaint that I have about both of the Forths that
 I have is that it takes a PhD to define a record structure and open a
 file.  This is a pretty ridiculous situation considering that answers
 abound.  I have two published versions of database managers for Forth and
 am starting the process of converting one of them from Atila to the F-PC
 wordset, if I can. (That being James D Terry's nice set of words in
 "Library of Forth Routines and Utilities".)

        A couple of years ago, when I first got my copy of F-PC, I thought
 that standardization was on the near horizon.  Boy, was I wrong!  Do I
 keep waiting and hope that ANS-Forth will actually become a reality in a
 reasonable amount of time?  (Anyone can feel free to answer this.)  Will
 ANS-Forth solve these shortcommings?  Can we expect some simple words for
 the purpose of defining fields, records and files.

        This might sound a little dumb (I am not so far into Forth that I
 know better (-|  ) but I would be delighted if I could simply write
 something like:
        RECORD  COMPANY
         12 FIELD  COMP-ID
         20 FIELD  COMP-NAME
         20 FIELD  COMP-CITY
         .....
        END-RECORD

        FILE-NAME  COMPANY   C:\DBASE\COMPANY.DTA
        OPEN-NEW   COMPANY

        With Mr. Terry's help I shall soon be able to.  F-PC seems to run
 me through a maze to get the same result. It's hard to understand why this
 is.

        As far as screen control is concerned, I must say that Box&Fill,
 Box" and other "presentation" type words in F-PC are nice.  I like them
 very much and would be delighted to see this expanded upon.  They make
 pop up windows and pull down menus a snap.  Put the two together and any
 teenager can write software with Forth. Then, and only then, interest in
 Forth will take off.  It's a tremendous language and I expect to get a
 lot of work out of it when I get over this steep learning  curve and get
 some tools built that *I* can use.

        Regards,
        Stefan

 ---
    JABBER v1.1   Dolphin, Dolphin, Dolphin, Tuna, Dolphin, Dolphin,

 PCRelay:COMCTRII -> #1310 RelayNet (tm)
 4.11                Command Central II * 317-782-8094
 <<<>>>

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From: ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: ANS FORTH TECHNICAL COMMITTEE
Date: 11 Apr 92 16:01:34 GMT
Organization: (n.) to be organized.  But that's not important right now.

Category 10,  Topic 2
Message 146       Sun Apr 05, 1992
B.RODRIGUEZ2 [Brad]          at 23:58 EDT
 
Say....when does that fifteen-day answerback period commence?  When the TC
_mails_ the response, or when I _receive_ it?  (If the former, can I request
fax transmission?  It takes 15 days just for the mail to cross the border.)

Brad Rodriguez
 B.RODRIGUEZ2 on GEnie   |   bradford@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca
 "Any practice that is forbidden offers something that the system
 cannot successfully replace with an alternative."
        - Camden Benares

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From: jpr@sun2.lri.fr (Jean-Pierre Riviere)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Re: Forth for Amiga
Date: 6 Apr 92 11:15:02 GMT
Reply-To: jpr@sun2.lri.fr (Jean-Pierre Riviere)
Organization: LRI - Univ. Paris-Sud / CNRS URA 410


In article <793@starnine.UUCP>, mikeh@starnine.UUCP (Mike Haas) writes:

  [ much stuff deleted ]

|> ...I hope that gives you a taste of what JForth is like.  I could
|> go on..
|> 
|> We're thinking on putting out a demo executable with like a
|> non-expandable 4K dictionary.  SAVE-FORTH would be disabled, too.
|> If you would be interested in beta-testing such a creation, when
|> available, reply a snail-mail address to me.
|> 

That would be very interesting a thing to test that forth, for sure.
I hope it would be available through ftp.

|> Now, if you want to talk non-commercial, there are several solid
|> implementations that exist for the amiga...mvp-forth, a4th, jax4th,
|> and a few more...but few offer even the level of amiga support that
|> even Multi-Forth had.

Can someone tell me where those forth are available ?
I can add another one : ML-Forth. Rather good forth 83 but it cannot
be set to be breakable (not very good for debugging) and will never be.
But it include a full 68000 asm and honnest Amiga support. If anyone is
intested (why not ?) he can e-mail me (Ths forth is not mine but the
work of Laurent Prouvost and I don't know wether or not it is available
on any sites (I never saw it). I don't know if there is an English doc
file available but, well, feel free to translate the French one ;-) !)

|> 
|> |Thanks in advance for your help.

Me too.

|> |
|> |--
|> |
|> |rwing!xpresso!bill                      (Bill Vance),            
|> Bothell, WA
|> |                                    
|> ...!uunet!pilchuck!rwing!xpresso!bill
|> |You listen when I xpresso,            
|> ...!uw-beaver!uw-entropy!dataio!/
|> |I listen when uuxpresso......:-)

 

.--------------------------.------------------------------------------
| Jean-Pierre RIVIERE      |     /// What ? user-friemdly computing ? |
| LRI - Universite d'Orsay | \\\///  And with user-friendly prices ?  |
| e-mail : jpr@lri.lri.fr  |  \\\/   Only *Amiga* makes it possible ! |
`--------------------------^------------------------------------------'

(What I say is not in any way what my employer think or may not think ...)
From: ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Feedback to the Forth Interest Group
Date: 16 Apr 92 12:22:34 GMT
Organization: (n.) to be organized.  But that's not important right now.

Category 1,  Topic 2
Message 186       Wed Apr 15, 1992
ELLIOTT.C                    at 09:48 EDT
 
To Stefan Baker on RIME,

Boris Biberstein, who attends many Southern Ontarion FIG meetings, presented
some of his stuff on data structures last year.  If it's not in the FIG
library already, maybe it can be brought in.
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From: FRED%JWH@VX.ACS.UMN.EDU (Fred H Olson -- WB0YQM)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Forth using Hams? going to Dayton?
Date: 12 Apr 92 17:21:00 GMT


                                  Sat  04-11-1992
                                  Fred H. Olson
                                  1221 Russell Av N
                                  Minneapolis, MN 55411
                                  (612) 588-9532
                                  (Internet: fred%jwh@vx.acs.umn.edu)
Hi,
   My access to comp.forth.lang lapsed for awhile in March (about 3/19 to 3/26)
and I missed some articles including your's <880@aplcomm.JHUAPL.EDU> (it was
quoted in a later article that I did see). Your article included the line: "I
have just returned from the 19th ANS Forth Meeting."

   Could you email me a copy of it?  From the quotes it sounds like a good
summary of the meeting, thanks for the original post and the copy if you can
send it.
From: ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: What should the Standard include?
Date: 12 Apr 92 13:13:31 GMT
Article-I.D.: willett.3281.UUL1.3#5129
Organization: (n.) to be organized.  But that's not important right now.


 Date: 04-06-92 (22:08)              Number: 30992 of 31006 (Echo)
   To: B.DUNN5 [BRIAN]               Refer#: 30915
 From: RJ BROWN                        Read: NO
 Subj: WHAT SHOULD THE STANDARD      Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE
 Conf: FORTH (58)                 Read Type: GENERAL (+)

 I wrote a locals implementation for LMI UR/Forth-386 last year and
 uploaded it to the LMI BBS as LOCS.ARC (or LOCS.ZIP, I can't remember
 now...) that had the syntax:
      : foo | a b c -- x y & p q r | blah blah blah ;
 In this implementation, the stack effect comment is enclosed in vertical
 bars (pipe flanges), and a, b, and c get the top 3 cells on the stack,
 when the word exits, x and y will be left as the top 2 cells on the
 stack, p, q, and r are private locals that are neither input arguments,
 or output values, but just scratch variables.  All allocation is on the
 return stack so it will work recursively and reentrantly.  Stack balance
 is gauranteed by the locals imnplementation, so you don't even have to
 balance the staqck yourself: you can push a bunch of trash on the stack
 and then just exit; the locals implementation will blow off all the
 trash and the input arguments, and exit after pushing the declared
 returned values on the stack.  I like it.  I would like to see more
 people try it out, either on 386-urf, or port it to other forths.

 NET/Mail : LMI Forth Board, Los Angeles, CA (310) 306-3530
 <<<>>>

[If this file has made it to GEnie I can offer it via FNEAS.  There
 will be another article posted to comp.lang.forth if that is so.
  -Doug Philips
]
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From: ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Advanced Beginners
Date: 16 Apr 92 12:22:41 GMT
Organization: (n.) to be organized.  But that's not important right now.

Category 2,  Topic 8
Message 58        Wed Apr 15, 1992
D.RUFFER [Dennis]            at 21:58 EDT
 
Re: JAMES GRAHAM

 > First, can anyone tell me what the following code is trying to
 > do?   I am told that 'S is the address of the top of stack,
 >
 > VARIABLE 'SP-IF
 > : *if*   -1 'S 4- 'SP-IF ! ;

Yes, 'S does give you the address of the top of stack, and this words does
manipulate it and then saves it in 'SP-IF presumably so that it can do
something with it later.  However, that manipulation depends on the cell size
of the machine it is running on.  If it's a 16 bit system then the 4- allows 2
items to be put onto the stack after 'S is executed.  If it's a 32 bit system
then it only allows for 1 item.  The code itself gives no clue as to what
those items are, however.

 > Also, I am told that -' is the underlying word for ' and that it
 > does not abort.

That is correct.  I'm not sure about pF 79, but typically -' returns the name
field address (so the IMMEDIATE bit can be checked), the parameter field
address (for EXECUTE) and a truth flag on top of the stack (the addresses
below it are garbage if the flag it true, i.e. the word is not found).  The
word is pronounced "not tick".  You will need to examine its use to see if the
pfa or the nfa is being used.

 >  Does anyone know the LMI PC/Forth 3.2 equivalent of -' ?

No, but I doubt there is going to be much compatability if the application is
using the nfa.

   {B-{)>   DaR
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From: ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Object-oriented Forth, Neon/Yerk, etc.
Date: 8 Apr 92 22:47:35 GMT
Organization: (n.) to be organized.  But that's not important right now.

Category 3,  Topic 46
Message 145       Sun Mar 29, 1992
E.RATHER [Elizabeth]         at 01:51 EST
 
Welcome abord, Mike.

Several people have commented lately on the lack of any articles in OOP
publications re OOPs work in Forth.  You sound like an ideal person to remedy
this grievous deficiency.  Hope you can help!

Cheers...
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From: ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: BASIS Feedback
Date: 14 Apr 92 11:46:41 GMT
Organization: (n.) to be organized.  But that's not important right now.

Category 10,  Topic 35
Message 105       Mon Apr 13, 1992
D.RUFFER [Dennis]            at 22:05 EDT
 
Re: cbbrowne@csi.uottawa.ca (Christopher Browne)

 > 'Cmon!  There has GOT to be a time when briefer/more layman-
 > approachable documentation will become available.  jaxForth must
 > have a word-list in it somewhere.  Similarly, the ZenForth
 > documentation probably has SOME useful information in it.

The difference there Christopher is that there is an implementation that
accompanies these systems.  Thus, the documentation does not need to stand on
its own words.  If the user is confused, he/she can go try out a few test
cases or examine the code to see what really is happening.  You will probably
never see a Forth vendor claiming that their documentation can be used to
describe anyone else's version.  Additionally, each of these systems are mere
interpretations of the standard.  They may in fact conflict in some of their
interpretations.  While it is the TC's job to make sure that such
contraditions do not exist, it will be a while before they are all ironed out.

   {B-{)>   DaR
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From: ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Non-Forth systems/languages.
Date: 12 Apr 92 13:13:11 GMT
Article-I.D.: willett.3272.UUL1.3#5129
Organization: (n.) to be organized.  But that's not important right now.


 Date: 04-06-92 (23:48)              Number: 30997 of 31006 (Echo)
   To: RJ BROWN                      Refer#: 566
 From: RAY DUNCAN                      Read: NO
 Subj: NON-FORTH SYSTEMS/LANGUAG     Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE
 Conf: FORTH (58)                 Read Type: GENERAL (+)

 The storage order specified in Forth-83 for 2@ and 2! is upside down
 from the Intel standard for 32-bit integers.  This is why our systems
 also have D@ and D! which *do* store 32-bit values in the CPU's natural
 byte order.

 NET/Mail : LMI Forth Board, Los Angeles, CA (310) 306-3530
 <<<>>>
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From: ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: What should the Standard include?
Date: 15 Apr 92 12:09:41 GMT
Organization: (n.) to be organized.  But that's not important right now.

Category 10,  Topic 30
Message 181       Tue Apr 14, 1992
B.RODRIGUEZ2 [Brad]          at 23:06 EDT
 
Hmmm...we previously discussed the following forums:

a) working groups at Forth conferences -- a _very_ limited participation, and
historically not very effective.

b) contests in Forth Dimensions -- worked for the Eaker CASE statement (yes, I
know it has detractors).  Has it been tried since? Participation limited to FD
readership.

c) the Forth Vendors Group -- how well did this work for floating point?  I
seem to recall that X3J14 was loosely based on this work. Participation
limited to FVG, and a vendor bias is inevitable.

d) personal efforts at promotion -- Mitch Bradley tried this for files; it
didn't work for him.

I'm now leaning toward:

e) discussion or working groups on ForthNet -- I don't know how wide a
participation this would receive, but the barriers to entry are a lot lower. 
(I can afford GEnie; I can't afford to fly around the country to ANS
meetings.)  I know of at least one standard that has been successfully
designed in this way: the MIDI Show Control standard was debated on the USITT
Callboard system.  To a lesser extent, the USITT ASCII Text Representation
standard was created on the same forum.

As you said, ForthNet has a limited participation.  But only FD has a wider
readership -- perhaps not, if you consider how many people may be reading
comp.lang.forth.  ForthNet also has lower entry barriers than anything except
letters-to-the-editor in FD -- possibly less; comp.lang.forth is cheaper than
FD if you're at a university.  And ForthNet has a faster turnaround than FD. 
I think we can boost ForthNet participation without boosting FIG membership,
and thanks to comp.lang.forth, people who aren't "connected" to the Forth
community can discover it and participate.  It seems to be our best bet.

Brad Rodriguez
 B.RODRIGUEZ2 on GEnie   |   bradford@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca
 "All this is meaningless drivel if no one calls the client!"
                                                - Chris McEwen

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From: ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: ANS FORTH TECHNICAL COMMITTEE
Date: 12 Apr 92 13:13:24 GMT
Organization: (n.) to be organized.  But that's not important right now.

Category 10,  Topic 2
Message 149       Wed Apr 08, 1992
D.RUFFER [Dennis]            at 01:59 EDT
 
Re: Interface!b0b@overmind.mind.org

 >    I feel sort of stupid asking, but I have a program that I hope
 > to make portable by ANSIfying it.  The program uses BLOCK to
 > access to a number of different files.  Is it true that,
 > according to the NEW dpANS, there is no standard way to access
 > more than one file via BLOCK in a standard program?

Bob, if your program assumes that all the files have been mapped into a linear
block map before it starts, then it _can_ be a portable application.  What is
not portable is the ability to create this linear block mapping of multiple
files.  Right now, every system does it differently, and some don't even know
what a file is, having only a linear block system.  There was just no way to
find common ground that everyone could be happy with so everything that
implied multiple files could be open at the same time was removed.

I haven't seen the final result, so someone else is going to have to tell you
what actually is possible, but the basic premise is that a portable program
can assume a linear block map.  How it is created is beyond the scope of the
standard.

   {B-{)>   DaR
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From: ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Non-Forth systems/languages.
Date: 12 Apr 92 13:13:06 GMT
Organization: (n.) to be organized.  But that's not important right now.


 Date: 04-06-92 (22:19)              Number: 30994 of 31006 (Echo)
   To: GARY SMITH                    Refer#: 30910
 From: RJ BROWN                        Read: HAS REPLIES
 Subj: NON-FORTH SYSTEMS/LANGUAG     Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE
 Conf: FORTH (58)                 Read Type: GENERAL (+)

 I am currently working on a project that runs under the Dead Operating
 System (=DOS, viva Unix!) that has a main program written in Forth and a
 rather complicated I/O driver for a very complicated I/O device that is
 implemented (by the board vendor) as a TSR written in C and assembler.
 The secret of success here is a C program that keeps to itself as a TSR,
 and a very clean interface via 80x8x INT instruction and paraameter
 passing in registers.  The registers usually point to rather large data
 structures in real memory that act as a communications pathway between
 the two tasks.  The Forth task runs as a normal DOS program, and the4
 TSR gets control whenever a device interrupt occurs, or when the Forth
 program calls it with INT.  The clean interface virtually isolates the 2
 programs so that it really doesn't matter what language they are written
 in.  The only nast part I found was that the particular forth I am using
 does not store 32 bit integers that same way the Microsoft C compiler
 does, so I had to write special long@ and long! words to handle that
 part of the interface.  Everything else was very clean.

 NET/Mail : LMI Forth Board, Los Angeles, CA (310) 306-3530
 <<<>>>
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Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth