From: badger@wixer.cactus.org (Badger)
Subject: Re: Possible FAQ: Tinctures
Organization: Real/Time Communications
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 92 23:29:04 GMT

In article <1992Sep13.162237.11938@news.arc.nasa.gov> keradwc@news.arc.nasa.gov (Kevin Connery) writes:
>In article <1992Sep13.144906.13646@nntp.hut.fi> c34657b@saha.hut.fi (Tuomas Viljanen) writes:
>>Another possible heraldry FAQ could be:
>>
>>"What are the heraldic tinctuures and what are they in English ?"
>[...]
>>Lesser used colours are
>>
>>PURPURE, or purple, FS37100
>>ORANGE (orange), FS32473
>
>
>I'd make the caveat for any such FAQ that it include known exceptions (Orange?
>where /when is/was it used, even as a lesser color?

	I'm curious about this also, what is your source for the use of Orange?

>
>>4. Stains
>>
>>Unlike all other tinctures, stains are never chosen by the designer or the
>>bearer of the arms. They are added to the arms as a sign of humiliation
>>or punishment for an ignoble deed.
>
>Similar to above. I've not seen evidence that these 'rules' were ever applied.
>It is documented that many gentle+ families in England did choose livery colors
>from these tinctures, but ...

	The use of the stains in this way is known as an "Abatement of Arms",
and to the best of my knowledge was never used.  The only Abatement I've ever
been able to document was displaying a condemend man's Arms upside down   
during an execution.  Whils the stains probably should be included in a FAQ,
I believe that a note stating that they were not used as Abatements, and not
used, nor would have been used by the College of Heralds should be included.

>
>>There is one well known rule according to the tinctures:
>>
>>- a coat of arms must be composed of at least two tinctures
>>- one of them must be a metal
>>- and a metal may not be placed next to a metal or colour next to a colour 
>
>There are a few (obviously limited in number) single-tincture arms in English
>heraldry. I'd _guess_ that they were granted _early_.
>
>>- one of them must be a metal
>>- and a metal may not be placed next to a metal or colour next to a colour 
>>
>>There is only one internationally accepted exception of this rule: the
>>arms of the Kingdom of Jerusalem:
>
>Actually, there are a fair-sized collection of exceptions: Hungarian heraldry,
>with green (mounts) on blue, or German, with red/black, red/blue mixes, etc.
>The Rule of Tincture is a good guideline for new creations, but can't be taken
>as more than a mild suggestion about existing arms.
>>ARGENT, a cross potent cantoned with four crosses couped (Jerusalem cross), OR
>
>Tuomas, while it may sound as though I'm against your Tincture FAQ, I am not.
>I just wanted to make sure we didn't propagate statements which were incorrect.
>
>kdc
>  kconnery@isi.com

	Next, i suppose, we should create an Field Division FAQ, and an
Ordinary FAQ...


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