HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: garyp@gvls2.gvl.unisys.com (Gary Palangian)
Subject: Re: Home owners Insurance -- Farmers versus Allstate
Keywords:  Umbrella Insurance State Farm 
Organization: Rocky Mountain Technical Center, Thornton, CO
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 17:13:09 GMT


Jeff Wrote:


(deleted) have a boat w/ it's own insurance.
The home owners won't cover you if it over 10 or 25 hp or something like that.
My niegbor has a couple of Yamaha wave jammers and it cost him 
(deleted).  Anyway, he got a umbella deal for his cars, boat, wavejammers
and house. He says it covers liablity to $1M or something like that and costs
less overall. I think I may look into that too.


One thing w/ insurance companies you never really know is how much they try
to weasel out of claims. I have heard that Allstate is good for that, but I
think it was only one testimonal. Maybe some Netters can shead some light on this. Would make a good topic. I haven't had a problem w/ Farmers claims. They 
even covered carpet that got wet from water seeping under a concrete slab when
they really didn't have to. But Mid-Century ( farmers boat Co.) didn;t cover
a freak freeze that crack my boat's engine block. It was spelled out in the policy and there were at least 1000 claim in our county alone. 
well that's my $0.02 worth
Jeff Brown


Hey Now,

Good post, Jeff.  Got me to thinking.

You can purchase a $1 million liability umbrella policy for around
$120/year.  In my opinion, you've got to be a little tetched if you
can justify not buying such policies.  As my friends and acquaintences
get older, I often here about how they upped this or that liability
coeverage to $100,000 or $500,000.  I always ask about additional
coverage and usually hear that they have none.  I tell them I would be
afraid to get in my car, or on my bicycle, with the coverage they
have.  They always say someting like ' Well I'm only worth ...'  or
'If they could get $500,000, why would they sue for more."  I always
think "What if you hit school bus on the way home?"

Anyway, for less than $20/month, you can carry an additional $2
Million worth of coverage.  That amount will ensure that your
insurance company's best lawyers get involved right away if a suit
would be filed.  It also gives you the peace of mind to have wild
parties :) Seriously, a single umbrella policy at 10x to 30x net worth
is a great investment when weighed against the possibility of having
to start your whole life over without a dime.

On a different note, we are considering moving our insurance
to State Farm (We keep all insurance with one company).
Any net stories on State Farm? 

Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: jeffz@cray.com (Jeff Zais)
Subject: Re: Cost per square for tear-off
Organization: Cray Research, Inc
Distribution: usa
Date: 12 Aug 92 08:33:27 CDT

In article <1992Aug7.213434.19225@kodak.kodak.com>, 
            rwl@tornado.kodak.com (Richard W. Lourette) writes:
> 
> 
> Our roof needs replacing. It is in very bad shape, and should have been
> replaced long ago. We just purchased the house, or I would have done
> something about it long ago.
> 
> I don't want to re-roof over the two existing roofs. I am looking for a
> fair price per square for a tear off and re-roof.  I would need to add
> new vents, but don't want them included in the per square price. I
> believe that most companies have fixed prices for installing them
> anyway. Most of the roof is at a 10/12 pitch, which I would expect to
> add to the cost. There is 41 square of roofing required with 3 square
> for ridge caps. Can anyone out there give me a fair price per square
> that I can use as a comparison to roofing estimates that I get from
> contractors.
> 
> Assume $20 per square for the cost of material per square. I live in
> Rochester, NY, so I think cost of living is about average for the
> country. Thanks in advance.
> 
> Rich
> 
> 
I've just had a roof put on our 100 year old Victorian home in Wisconsin.
It had cedar shakes covered by two layers of asphalt shingles.  The house
is about 28 squares worth, and the garage is an additional 10 squares.  The
slope is similar to your 10/12.  We got three estimates: $160, $175, 
and $200 (per square pricing).  We went with the lowest bid since we were
confident Kevin would do a quality job.  The price includes tear-off, new 
3/8 plywood over the old roof boards (which have spaces between), and 
installation of 25 year shingles.  Kevin is putting in new vents for us
at no extra charge.  

Kevin normally puts on "20 year" shingles, but a roofer we know convinced 
us that the "25 year" shingles are better (but he said to make sure that 
you go by the weight of the shingle, and not just the year rating - ours 
are about 240 pounds/square, where the "20 year" are typically 
225 pounds/square).  Owens-Corning didn't have 25 year shingles in asphalt, 
so we ended up with Fiberglass shingles, which I hope will be OK.

On the positive side, I've been able to use Kevin's scaffolding to put in new
rain gutters. This has made installation much easier.  Also, tearing off the
old roof made the 50 or so bats living in our attic decide to fly off and 
find another home.  We hope to keep things sealed up and keep our attic 
bat-free from now on.  

We also put a roof on a house in California that we sold (split the cost 
with the buyers).  That was a 24 square job with a low slope, but also 
included a tear-off of shakes and asphalt, and installation of plywood 
and new shingles.  The lowest estimate there was about $200/square.  


                                           Jeff

                                           jeffz@cray.com
From: wahl@eitri.css.gov (Darrin Wahl)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: installing brick pavers for a patio
Date: 13 Aug 92 00:16:53 GMT
Reply-To: wahl@eitri.css.gov (Darrin Wahl)
Organization: Science Aplications Int'l Corp.


My wife and I just bought a new house, and we are thinking about what we
want to do with the backyard.  I want to compare different types of patios
for costs/aesthetics/etc.  I came across "brick pavers" at Home Depot which 
are brick-type blocks that are installed without mortar.  They are just
placed in a solid-bordered region and laid on a sand bed like a jigsaw puzzle.
After settling them with a compactor (? ... a machine with a large flat plate
that bounces up and down), sand is spread over the top and they are compacted
again.  

I was wondering if anyone has used these for a patio, and what problems
there may be associated with them (weeds, drainage, loose pavers, etc).
Also any info on how difficult the installation was (the brochure makes it
look *so* easy :-), why these were chosen over other materials, etc. 
would be appreciated.

You can send me email, and I will post a summary if there is enough interest.

Thanks!

--								             --
Darrin Wahl                                                 wahl@esosun.css.gov
Science Applications International, Corp.
MS A2-F
10260 Campus Point Dr.
San Diego, CA  92121		

Only a fool would express these opinions!
From: olney@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Doug Olney)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Re: ?? Indoor Water Fountain: Calif Style ??
Date: 17 Aug 92 19:04:34 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Rosa, CA


There isn't anything special or tricky about fountains.  The latest
Sunset magazine has an article on how to build them yourself.  The
pump is a glorified aquirium pump.  You just toss it in the bottom of a
water tight container, route the hose where you want water to come
out, fill with water, and plug it in.

Big watertight ceramic or cement pots are a good choice for an indoor
fountain.

Most commonly, people will dribble the water down something - a
waterfall, a pebbled brook, over an attractive piece of garden statuary,
down a series of steps, a water wheel, a series of bowls or bowl shaped
leaves, whatever . . .

I would advise going to the library and trying to get a copy of the
August 1992 Sunset magazine.


						     Doug Olney
						     Santa Rosa, CA
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: tvervaek@col.hp.com (Tom Vervaeke)
Subject: Re: Telephone Outlets
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 17:01:58 GMT
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division

jfw@jfwhome.FUNHOUSE.COM (John F. Woods) writes:
> In <16b23rINNn8@sixgun.East.Sun.COM> egreen@East.Sun.COM (Ed Green - Pixel Cruncher) writes:
> >In article 21159@col.hp.com, tvervaek@col.hp.com (Tom Vervaeke) writes:
> >>We have a cordless phone but do not use it too much. Many of the neighbors
> >>do have scanner, etc.. and I live privacy. 
> >This is the second time I've heard this.  Are you people really that
> >worried about your neighbors buying expensive electronic equipment just
> >so they can listen to your phone calls?  Even so, what are you afraid
> >of, that they will know when you mother in law is coming to visit?
>

Yes, I don't want any of my life to be anyones business. It does not
take expensive equipment to listen. For around  $100 bucks you can
listen to any cordless phone, baby monitor, etc.. in your neighborhood.

I imagine phone usage among different folks varies. My wife tends to talk 
for medium amounts of time with friends and family about personal 
items that she would not want others to hear. I get many calls from work
on items I would not want to share with my neighbors also. I guess its
a relative thing.

My .002 cents worth.
From: keith@clodii.Columbia.NCR.COM (Keith Boyd)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Freezer burn and meat storage
Date: 14 Aug 92 19:13:21 GMT
Organization: NCR E&M Columbia SC

In article <MACRAKIS.92Aug7111401@next4.osf.org> macrakis@osf.org (Stavros Macrakis) writes:
>kls4344@ritvax.isc.rit.edu said:
>
>   ...my freezer regularly burns meat, ice cream, and other items....
>   What could be the problem with the freezer?
>

To anyone concerned, there was recently a thread on this very subject 
with some very good tips on how to properly wrap and store meat, etc
in rec.hunting. These articles are archived but I don't know the site
address offhand. You can write the group moderator for it. 

Tim Rigg:  rigg@osnome.che.wisc.edu

Keith

, 

-- 
| Keith M. Boyd  (NCR MCPD Cola.) | Nothing could be finer than huntin' and  |
| 3325 Platt Springs Rd.          |    and fishin' in South Carolina! -Me-   | 
| West Cola., S.C. 29170 |   GO BRAVES!!     | keith.boyd@columbiasc.NCR.COM |
| Vp: 803-791-6419 or 6455    | From uunet: uunet!ncrcom!ncrcae!clodii!keith |
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Killing burglars.
Date: 20 Aug 92 18:29:42 GMT
Article-I.D.: henson.1992Aug20.182942.18701
Organization: Western Washington University

sns@bondi.jpl.nasa.gov (Sam Southard) writes:

(Sensible things deleted for space).

"Invader Proofing" your house, 
...finaly a topic related to misc.consumers.house  (^;

	For those who are serious about home protection, the concept of
the "safe room" plan can't be beat.  If your home is penetrated,

1)  you round up the wife and kids into the predetermined "safe room",
which contains a solid locked door, your gun(s), and a telephone.
2)  you crouch behind an obstruction (such as the bed) that hides
you all from the door.  While covering the door with your gun
3)  you call the police from this position.


     If the police show before the door breaks, life is good, your 
family is safe.
     If the door breaks first, too bad for the invader.  Your family
is still safe if you can help it.  Life is still good.

Some points:	1)  The police may hurry up if you say you have a gun.
	 	2)  The invaders may not be so interested in breaking
		the door down if you say you have a gun.
		3)  Hollow core doors will break with one kick.  A solid
		core door with a good deadbolt lock is prefered, but
		as doors are not my area of expertise, I will leave
		door talk to someone else.
		4)  You may very well have no phone.   Home invaders
		often cut the phone lines before they come in.
		For this reason, the safe room must also have a window
		to exit from once you realize there will be no 
		intervention.  As long as you can bring your children
		with you, such an escape is not a bad idea.  The importance
		of the "safe room" concept is that _every_ family member
		be in one room, the safe room.  This requires that you train
		your spouse and children for such a contingency.

For those interested in home protection, there is one book 
that I would call the most usefull on this topic, and it
is a great read.  "The Truth about Self Protection" by Massad Ayoob.
Police Bookshelf, (in Conneticut?) is the pub.

This policeman and writer shares lots of general things on "invader 
proofing" your home, re locks, doors, alarms, safetly strategys such 
as family "safe room" plans, and many things that are of great utility 
to firearm owners and non-owners alike.
	
Jim Del Vecchio
From: becker@edwards-vax.af.mil
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Trash Compactors
Date: 18 Aug 92 18:46:04 GMT
Organization: IFAST - EDWARDS Air Force Base

HI,

  We are thinking of purchasing a trash compactor.  Anyone out there
have any inputs on the pros and cons of one and any experiences?  
One of the big reasons for us considering one is we have a major problem
with maggots in our big garbage can.  Yes, we use plastic bags, but I
guess with the heat (we live in the high desert) its just something
we have to deal with.  So any comments would be appreciated!!!!

Thanks in advance!
From: egreen@East.Sun.COM (Ed Green - Pixel Cruncher)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Telephone Outlets
Date: 12 Aug 1992 13:01:47 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, RTP, NC
Distribution: world
Reply-To: egreen@East.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: laser.east.sun.com

In article 21159@col.hp.com, tvervaek@col.hp.com (Tom Vervaeke) writes:
> 
>We have a cordless phone but do not use it too much. Many of the neighbors
>do have scanner, etc.. and I live privacy. 

This is the second time I've heard this.  Are you people really that
worried about your neighbors buying expensive electronic equipment just
so they can listen to your phone calls?  Even so, what are you afraid
of, that they will know when you mother in law is coming to visit?

Anybody snooping on my cordless is going to hear a lot of really boring
(to anybody but me) chit chat about my niece, and an occasional Chinese
food order.  BFD.

I suppose if you have teenagers, there is a real security risk... like,
Sally might actually learn that Joey thinks Betty is cute.


---
Ed Green, former Ninjaite |I was drinking last night with a biker,
  Ed.Green@East.Sun.COM   |and I showed him a picture of you.  I said,
DoD #0111  (919)460-8302  |"Go on, get to know her, you'll like her!"
 (The Grateful Dead) -->  |It seemed like the least I could do...
From: lmtra@uts.amdahl.com (Leon Traister)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Hardwood Kitchen Floors
Date: 17 Aug 92 23:41:08 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

As part of our major remodelling, which includes the kitchen, we are
considering kitchen flooring material.  Three of our friends have
hardwood in the kitchen, and it certainly would look good, as it would
continue the same appearance from the adjacent dining and family rooms.

The question is how well does this work out in practice.  One friend
said they had it sealed with Varathane and never had any problems with
small amounts of water.  Another said you have to be very careful.

Any opinions, experience?
Thanks.
========================================================================

<Usual Disclaimer>        "The best is the enemy of the good" - Voltaire

Leon Traister (lmtra@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com)

c/o Amdahl Corporation            (408)737-5449
1250 E. Arques Ave.  M/S 338
P.O. Box 3470
Sunnyvale, CA  94088-3470


Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: heflin@rtsg.mot.com (Suzanne Stratton Heflin)
Subject: Re: Making low offers
Keywords: house buying
Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 14:31:51 GMT

burd@pilot.njin.net (Barry Burd) writes:


>Does anyone have experience offering much less for a house than the
>listing price?  I sold a house for a full 20% less than the listing
>price, and now that I'm looking for a house to buy, I'd like to get
>as good a deal as the deal that was gotten from me.  Any hints on
>pulling off such a deal effectively?

I can't believe you sold a house for 20% less than what you listed for.
Obviously, you either got tired of waiting for your house to sell, or
your home was very overpriced to begin with.  If, for example, it was
listed for 150K and you took 120K, well, it's very unfortunate for you
that you didn't list it for 135K.  By even listing it for 150K, you
probably lost lots of potential buyers.  At 135K, you might have gotten
130K.  Oh, well, live and learn.  No, I don't know how you find a
bargain like that......

>Mail replies directly to bburd@tarzan.drew.edu or bburd@drew.bitnet
>I'll post a summary of replies to misc.consumers.house
From: sheriffp@Software.Mitel.COM (Peter Sheriff)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Need Info on Compact Fluorescents
Date: 19 Aug 92 12:42:32 GMT
Organization: Mitel. Kanata (Ontario). Canada.


      I am using two 18 watt Earth Lights and one 9 watt GE compact
fluorescents. The Earth Lights give a pinkish but fairly harsh light
which my wife finds unpleasant (I don't mind it). The GE is less harsh
but then it is only 9 watts. These are the only ones I have had experience
with.
      One thing I would recommend is that you only replace lights that
are on for a considerable amount of time. Don't replace lights that are
rarely used since you will take a long time to recoup the cost of the
CF. Also, if you are using them in a table/floor lamp, make sure that
the CF does not protrude too far up so that it is visible through the
shade. The dimensions of these things are much different from an
incandescent bulb. 

                                 Pete
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: moroney@ramblr.enet.dec.com
Subject: Re: Solution for a smokey fireplace -- gas log?
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 19:51:08 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.060409.12215@acuson.com>, fields@acuson.com (Julian Fields) writes...
>>>When we bought our house we knew the fireplace smoked.  

>Yes, I too believe your problem is the oversized firebox.
>The simple and easy solution is to reduce the size of the opening
>to you living room.  You can do this by putting a glass fireplace
>cover or a metal fireplace insert in front of the fireplace.
>Put the fireplace cover as close to the bricks as you can.

Not true.  I too have a fireplace that tends to smoke, and it currently has
a wood stove insert.  With the stove insert the opening in the room is very
small, especially with the stove air intakes closed.  It will still smoke until
a good draft gets going.

I believe a large chimney flue causes the smoke.  I have a large flue.
The hot air has to lift the cold dense air in the chimney to get out.
It would rather try to go into the room.  Once all the cold air is
gone from the chimney it works normally.

Another cause is if the winds or other factors cause a slight vacuum in the
house.  With a vacuum the smoke is going to try to replace the vacuum rather
than go up a chimney.  Note that the simple act of smoke going up a chimney
will also tend to form a vacuum in the house.  Try opening a window to cure
this.

-Mike
Xref: sparky misc.consumers.house:10828 misc.consumers:15184
From: lmtra@uts.amdahl.com (Leon Traister)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house,misc.consumers
Subject: ULF Toilets
Date: 14 Aug 92 16:13:26 GMT
Followup-To: misc.consumers.house
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

We'll be needing to install water-conserving toilets as part of a
remodelling project and would like to use a 1.6 gallon model if possible.

One choice is between gravity and pressure cylinder type.

 1) Do the gravity models do a good job of disposal and keeping the
    bowl clean?  After all, having to flush twice would defeat the
    purpose.

 2) Are the pressure cylinder types reliable over the long haul?

In gravity types, the Kohler Wentworth model has been recommended.  I
have also seen interesting descriptions of IFO-Cascade based US models.

Any experience out there?

Thanks,
Leon Traister
========================================================================

<Usual Disclaimer>        "The best is the enemy of the good" - Voltaire

Leon Traister (lmtra@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com)

c/o Amdahl Corporation            (408)737-5449
1250 E. Arques Ave.  M/S 338
P.O. Box 3470
Sunnyvale, CA  94088-3470
From: tan@bronson.uucp (Tan Bronson)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Mice
Date: 18 Aug 92 02:13:48 GMT
Organization: Microvation Consultants 20 Sperry Rd Madison, Ct 04663


    We have a mouse problem in our house in Vermont. We've used 'DeCon' and
found a few dead mice. Are we going to have to keep this up forever ?
	
    This house is not occupied very often, so I was wondering if I could
do something to discourage them from living in the house? The easiest
is a very load alarm system which could go off a few times a day when
we are not there. Would this do any good?

    Poison seems a bit brutal and results in smelly bodies. Cats are
not practical as we're not there enough.

    Any 'natural' ideas would be appreciated.
-- 
Tan Bronson		tan@Microvation.COM (or tan@bronson.UUCP)
Microvation Consultants 20 Sperry Road 		Madison, CT 06443
			Voice: (203)-421-5061	Fax: (203)-421-5292
From: paigen@tfs.com (David Paigen)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Killing burglars.
Date: 21 Aug 92 20:14:50 GMT
Organization: TRW Financial Systems

sns@bondi.jpl.nasa.gov (Sam Southard) writes:

>When the burglar is in my house, I am not going to wait for him to prove
>himself guilty of intent to do me or my family harm.  When you're fighting
>for your life (as you are in this case.  Or at least may be - you have no
>way of knowing), innocent until proven guilty has much too high a cost, and
>the people who would pay for it (the burgled families) are not the right
>people to bear the cost.

This represents to me a callous disregard for the life of another.  Mind
you, I WOULD shoot an invader in my home if they made any threatening
moves, but as long as they "FREEZE!," "PUT THE GUN DOWN SLOWLY!," and
"LIE FACE DOWN ON THE FLOOR WITH YOUR HANDS ON YOUR HEAD!," I have no reason
to shoot.

Furthermore, the use of preemptive, deadly force (e.g. shooting in the
back) is dishonorable and likely to land you in jail for murder-2 or
voluntary manslaughter.

>No one is saying simply blast away at every bump in the night.  At least,
>I am not.  However, I am saying that an intruder being is my house is
>assumed to be intending harm (under the above circumstances, 90% of the
>time I am wrong).  Unless he gives me absolute evidence that he is not
>going to intend me harm, he's dead.  I will not take chances with my family.
>Would you?

What kind of evidence are you talking about?  Is there any chance that
this evidence will be presented before you blow the fellow away?

>I'm not going to put my family at risk because someone decides to break into my
>house.  If the best way to assure that my family will be safe is to kill the
>burglar without a warning, I will do so.  If the best way get that assurance is
>to call the police and run from the house, I will do so.  I will not assume
>that the latter of the two options is the best one for all circumstances.

And here again we see the preemptive strike.

----------------------->"Lay on, McDuff,    14th c. ideals in a 21st c. world
David Paigen            and damn'd be he        N: PLO Bush IRA CIA KKK
TRW Financial Systems   who first cries,        S: terrorism pipe bomb kill
paigen@tfs.com          'hold, enough!'"        A: assasination maim