HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ampe@cbnews.cb.att.com (john.e.ampe)
Subject: Re: Altitude sickness preparation
Organization: AT&T
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 15:54:31 GMT

In article <29521@optima.cs.arizona.edu> evans@cs.arizona.edu (Richard C. Evans) writes:
>Altitude sickness is wierd and very difficult to anticipate or prevent.  The
>best preventitive measure is good physical conditioning (regardless of the 
>activity).  

Sorry, but this is not true.  I have always gotten altitude sickness
while skiing at 9,000 ft, despite always being in top physical
condition.  In fact, doctors in Colorado report that the group most
likely to develop altitude sickness is young active males, probably
because they are likely to exert themselves the most.

>I have never heard of anyone getting altitude sickness at 8500 ft
>before, although I guess it's possible.

I have developed symptoms at 5,000 ft, and others develop symptoms at
even lower altitudes.  See the recent Scientific American article for
more details.  In summary, the physiology of altitude sickness is not
well understood.

>  To what extent did the sickness 
>develop (ie:headache, nausea, edema).  It may have been something else, such
>as food poisoning or flu, but mistaken for altitude sickness.
>
>If possible, a time-proven technique is gradual acclimation.  Just go to a set
>altitude (say 7500 ft) and sit for a few days.  Then move up and sit some more.

Going to 7,500 ft immediately is rather brash.  It will work for some 
people, but others (myself included) will get sick.

>Obviously, the problem with this technique is that it is time-consuming and
>a real drag.
>One method I strongly discourage is the use of medicines to offset the effects
>of altitude.  These are diuretics, and can therefore increase the possibility
>of dehydration.  Very, very scary.
>
>On the other hand, you might not want to worry about it.  I have had mild
>altitude sickness at 10,000 feet, and have been fine climbing for sea level
>to 19,000 ft.  Sometimes it happens, sometimes it don't!!

Caution is the key: slow acclimatization, hydration, and descent at the
first symptoms.

John_Ampe@att.com
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: masticol@cadenza.rutgers.edu (Steve Masticola)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Vasque boots and Dana Design packs?
Date: 11 Jan 93 05:14:08 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

johnn@eskimo.com (John Navitsky) writes:

>I was wondering what experience people might have with Vasque's Sundowner
>boots.  

I have 'em; they're fine. Be sure to use Sno-Seal, but don't get any
on the inside of the boot. It'd pollute the GoreTex.

Actually, I'm not sure GoreTex is worth the extra expense, if the boot
is well sealed. Any comments?

>I typically rebell against
>heavy boots but my wife contests that I need a boot that gives good ankle
>suport, something bore out by my attempts at getting lightweight boots.

I remember seeing a letter from someone who hiked a lot in wellies, in
some pretty outrageous places (the Arctic[?]) He contended that ankle
support was not all that big a deal.

>We live in the Seattle area so water-proof-ability is a major
concern.  

Another argument in favor of the wellies :-) Why not give 'em a try?
The expensive ones are 1/3 the price of the Sundowners, and you might
get some wear out of them anyway.

- Steve.
From: stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Fees for hiking in LA County?
Date: 9 Jan 93 01:01:10 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Unocal Corporation

In article <2B4DB3FD.232E@deneva.sdd.trw.com> russ@howard.nafb.trw.com (Russ Vreeland) writes:
>I just heard, second-hand, that there went into effect this year a fee
>for the use of trails in LA County.

I saw the law listed in the LA Times list of new laws.  $23 for a permit and $50 fine for not
having one.  I don't know the areas covered or how well it is enforced.
Xref: sparky rec.backcountry:10141 rec.boats.paddle:2310
From: wright@rscene.hac.com (John Wright)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: Need canoe camping suggestions
Date: 13 Jan 93 00:55:10 GMT
Reply-To: wright@rscene.hac.com (John Wright)
Organization: Hughes Training, Inc.


|> I'm looking for suggestions for a good place to go canoeing for about
|> 7-10 days.  We're looking for something remote and beautiful, a
|> combination of lakes and rivers with some class II rapids here and
|> there.  We'll have 3-4 canoes.
|> 
|> I've heard there's good canoeing in Ontario and Quebec.  Anyone have
|> experience with trips there and have specific places to recommend?
|> We're open to going elsewhere too.  Is there anything worthwhile in
|> the Adirondacks or maybe in Maine or really wherever?
|> 
|> Thanks in advance for your suggestions.


A few years ago, I went on a family trip canoeing through the Canadian
wilderness
in Ontario.  It was a 14 day trip ending at Lake St. Joseph and beginning about
100 miles west of there.  The outfit running the trip was called North
by Southwest,
out of Santa Fe, NM, run by my sister's father-in-law.  We went in the
middle of
September.  There were pluses and minuses about the experience,
particularly the
weather.  It was cool, with a lot of clouds, wind, and rain, mixed with
a few days
of sunshine.  The wind and rain combined to slow us down, keeping us in
camp for
one full day, to the point where we ended up getting planes to fly us
out.  However,
the wind also kept the trip almost entirely bug free, a miracle
according to those
who had previously traveled that way.  The vast majority of the trip was
paddling
across lakes (I think half of the surface of Ontario is water), with several
portages, and a few short river runs.  The scenery gets fairly monotonous, with
evergreen trees and water as far as the eye can see.  A highlight was seeing a
large bald eagle perched majestically in the top of a tree.

Bottom line:  Ontario does have some great canoeing areas, with mostly
lakes and
fewer rivers.  Getting across the border was no problem and the trip was
enjoyable to everyone who enjoyed camping and such not anyway.  The city
slickers
were not particularly happy.  There is definitely a lot of wilderness there but
you can probably find areas closer to civilization than where we went. 
Have fun.

John
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: nitram@tellabs.com (Marty Hewes)
Subject: Re: backpacking with medium format cameras
Organization: Tellabs, Inc.
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 18:51:00 GMT

In article <37805@sophia.inria.fr>, luong@naxos.inria.fr (Quang-Tuan Luong) writes:
> 
> I am wondering if anyone often carries a medium format camera while
> doing mountain hikes. If yes, what models do you use, and what is the
> approximate weight ?
> 
> Tuan.

Yes.  For long trips or downhill skiing, I carry a Rollfix II.  It's a postwar
German folding camera that shoots a 6x9 CM neg on 120.  It weighs under a pound.
It can be used with an ultralight tripod since it is light and has no mirror banging
around inside.  The biggest drawback is the three element lens.  I shoot it 
stopped down, and am happy with it.  I love the big negs.  Another alternative
would be a Zeiss Ikonta or Super Ikonta with a Tessar Lens.  No doubt a bit 
sharper.

If it's a short trip, I take the Mamiya 645.  It's heavy. A tripod big enough
to handle it is also heavy.  After 2 miles, I regret it.

In my opinion, If I don't use a tripod, the results are limited by camera 
movement.  Might as well carry the light one, and it fits in an inside jacket
pocket.  In bright light, I still carry the light one and stop down to 
avoid the limits of a three element lens.

If I have to shoot low light, or need interchangable lenses, I suffer with
the 645 and mongo tripod.

A good happy medium might be the Fuji 6xwhatever models.  They are expensive,
but small.  

Marty.

      IIIIIIIIIIIIIII   IIIIIIIIIIIIIII      Marty Hewes
      H ( )  \|/    H   H   ( )   \|/ H      Tellabs Inc.
      H(   ) -O-    H   H  (   )  -O- H      System and Applications Test
      H     )/|\    H   H (     ) /|\ H      Lisle, Il
      H======^======H   H======^======H      nitram@tellabs.com
      H- |----@-----H   H----| ---@---H      uunet!tellab1.TELLABS.COM!nitram
      H /|\ @\|/ @  H   H   /|\@ \|/@ H 
      H    \|/  \|/ H   H     \|/  \|/H      W (708) 955-3038
      III^IIIIIII^III   III^IIIIIII^III      H (708) 665-6671
     Wide eyed stereo  Wide  eyed  stereo    
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: degraff@helix.nih.gov
Subject: Re: Sierra Club Outings
Reply-To: degraff@helix.nih.gov
Organization: National Cancer Institute
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 17:58:10 GMT

In article <1if0efINNrg2@cronkite.Central.Sun.COM>
pstryjew@colsun.Central.Sun.COM (Pete Stryjewski) writes:
>
>Does anyone have any experiences (good/bad) with the Sierra Club Outings 
>that they could share?  Some of the trips seem to reasonably priced and
exciting.
>

I have done 4 National backpack trips in the Sierras over the last 5 years, and
have enjoyed them all.  I find them to be a good value for people who do not
have alot of time to plan trips, or who live a long way away from where they
want to backpack.  The trips I have done have been in the leasurely to moderate
range, which still allows for hiking to elevations near 12,000 ft, and often
camping above 10,000 ft.  There are certainly more strenous trips available if
you want.  The supplimentary descriptions that can be requested form the outing
office are usually detailed enough to give you a good idea if the trip is one
you will like, especially if you have a decent map of the area and can follow
the route the trip will  take.  Many of the trips use a packer assist the first
day to carry most of the commissary, so that the first day does not become a
death march, even if it is all uphill.  
>
>Also, what is an average age for participants?  The local chapter is mostly 
>40+ (nothing wrong with that) and don't have a lot in common with late-20yr
>olds.
On my trips, the age range has been from the mid-20's to the mid-70's, with the
average probably around 40.  I'm now in my mid-30's, and have always met people
on the trips whom I have alot in common with.

In short, I highly recommend the backpacking trips sponsored by the Outings
Committee.

Bill DeGrafff

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed herein are not necessarily thos of the
National Institutes of Health, The Dept. of Health and Human Services, or the
US Government.

>
>


Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: jwcoll01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Subject: Re: Fabric Supplier for GoreTex and Polartec Wanted
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 19:33:47 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville

In article <2B49211D.9110@news.service.uci.edu>, cheu@saturn.its.uci.edu (Kelvin Cheu) writes:
> In article <1993Jan4.182248.46095@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>, jamiller@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:
> |> My wife and are going to make some bivi sacs and are looking for
> |> polartec('ish doesn't have to be polartec if similiar low-weight warm
> |> quick drying...) and goretex fabric suppliers.  I've looked around the
> |> Kansas City area and don't like the fabric that I did find (only
> |> couple places)  I've seen the polartect for about $9 a yard but never
> |> goretex.  
> |> 
> |> Anyone know of fabric suppliers for goretex or polartec that might do
> |> mailorder?  Thanks again everyone...
> |> -- 
> |> jamiller@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
> |> James Miller
> |> 
> 
> Talk about polartec.  I was lucky to find 2 stores in Penang,
> Malaysia that sold polartec jacket 2 months ago on a trip home.
> It was made locally, w/o the polartec label, and of
> polartec 300 fabric.  Since it was M$20 (equivalent to US$8),
> I bought 4 of them - for my family.  If you have time shopping
> in any Asia, you may be surprized at how cheap these things are.
> 
> I also bought a Mag Light (2 AA batteries) for about
> US$6.50, a head lamp for about US$10, in Singapore.
> 
> 
> Kelvin

I think I saw some Gore-Tex fabric advertised in the Cabelas' Catalog once.
They're a big hunting supplier in Nebraska, but they have some high quality
(and cheap) outdoor stuff.  If you can't find their catalog or address, I'll be
glad to post or e-mail it to you.  I can't remember if they had tape for seams.

Joel Collins
jwcoll01@ulkyvx02.louisville.edu

Xref: sparky rec.backcountry:10053 rec.photo:23318
From: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,rec.photo
Subject: Re: Goretex camera case. (was Re: backpacking with medium format cameras)
Date: 9 Jan 93 21:17:02 GMT
Reply-To: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Organization: COMANDOS Project, Glesga Yoonie

pd@sics.se (Per Danielsson) wrote:
> jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin) writes:
>> I carry [ a TLR ] in a padded Goretex pouch made by Jessops for small
>> video cameras, [...]
> What's the point of having Goretex in a camera case?

Now you come to mention it, it doesn't have the Goretex label and so
probably isn't made of it.  It's the same kind of tough woven nylon on the
outside but I wouldn't know if it has the internal laminated membrane, not
having undone any of the seams.

-- 
--  Jack Campin    room G092, Computing Science Department, Glasgow University,
17 Lilybank Gardens, Glasgow G12 8RZ, Scotland   TEL: 041 339 8855 x6854 (work)
INTERNET: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk or via nsfnet-relay.ac.uk    FAX: 041 330 4913
BANG!net: via mcsun and uknet     BITNET: via UKACRL    UUCP: jack@glasgow.uucp
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: hiking from inn to inn
From: jmarold@netlink.cts.com (Jeff Marold)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 93 23:06:27 PST
Organization: NetLink Online Communications, San Diego CA

djw@hodgkin.mc.duke.edu (David Wendt) writes:

> In article <8JAN93.13214741@pattie.wellesley.edu> lrosenwald@pattie.wellesley
> >Hi - please excuse me if this is an inappropriate question - I'm new.
> >I live outside of Boston and have four days or so in March or May
> >for a hike - but prefer inn-to-inn, British style, to camping.  Anybody
> >have information about this?  Thanks - Larry Rosenwald.
This inn-to-inn hiking was very popular in the 20s and 30s. Does anyone 
know of any groups who organize this style of hiking?
please e-mail any responses . . . . 
thanks

--                    
INTERNET:  jmarold@netlink.cts.com (Jeff Marold)
UUCP:   ...!ryptyde!netlink!jmarold
NetLink Online Communications * Public Access in San Diego, CA (619) 453-1115
From: RiViT@cup.portal.com (Russell Michael VanTassell)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Bay Area Skiing?
Date: Wed,  6 Jan 93 17:59:35 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: ba

The cops get up to Grant Ranch even before the dusting happens, on
most cases.  I've done a lot of biking and stuff up there and I've
<never> managed to get up there before they do...

The roadway is typically closed to all vehicles at Grant Ranch - since
it has a rather nice area for turning around, as well... I don't know
where they close it from the Livermore side.

You <can> get up there on mountain bike (or foot, if you're that
desperate) -- you can make it in car only if you can show proof
of residence on the mountain.

As for snow, there is never enough to ski on without serious harm
coming to skis or body -- six inches of dust (and it's quite literally
that, from all I've ever seen up there) is hardly enough to even
shute... there are just too many rocks.  You would be lucky if
you could find enough to even allow your skis to slide down the
hill -- but then again, there are a few portions of that hill
that could almost be considered steep enough to rate as a good
diamond run with full coverage (but the chances of getting enough
snow to even start sticking to that stuff... I kind of doubt it)

If you succeed, let me know... I might be silly/gutsy enough to
follow you up there -- Hell, I live almost within walking distance
of it!!!

Good luck!!!

RiViT
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: tom@ulysses.att.com (Tom Smith)
Subject: Re: Altitude sickness preparation
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 17:31:37 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories, Murray Hill, NJ

In a previous article, paynter@bnr.ca (Stuart Paynter) writes:
|> There is an article in the latest American Health magazine on AS.  It 
|> seems that aerobic capacity does not lessen your chances  of being stricken.
|> Athletes in good shape are just as susceptible as anyone else.  I haven't
|> had time to read the article fully, I suggest that you may want to pick
|> up a copy.
|> 
|> Cheers....Stuart

Yep, this is my understanding, too.  Physical conditioning will affect
the amount of work you can do at altitude, but it does not make you
less susceptible to altitude sickness.

Take your time.
Acclimatize as much as possible.
Drink *lots* of water.
Take aspirin (helps you retain water).

Good luck,
Tom Smith.
tom@ulysses.att.com
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu (Donald R. Newcomb)
Subject: Re: binary elevation maps
Organization: University of Southern Mississippi
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 18:20:59 GMT

In article <C0E6C6.Jt4@boi.hp.com> ellen@mail.boi.hp.com (Ellen Osinski) writes:
>When I try to ftp I get the following error:
>ftp: spectrum.xerox.com: Host name lookup failure

The numeric address is 192.70.225.78 . Not all networks can be reached by
ftp from all other networks. It is possible that you may not be able to
perform the ftp transfer.
-- 

Donald R. Newcomb                * Life only admits two states: 
dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu        * growing and dying. So what,
newcomb@usmcp6.bitnet            * if I've put on a little weight?
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: selvin@nynexst.com (Al Selvin)
Subject: Hearths for woodstoves
Reply-To: selvin@nynexst.com
Organization: NYNEX Science & Technology, Inc.
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 93 15:19:41 GMT

Apologies if this doesn't quite fit with this newsgroup, but
we really need some help...

We're in the process of getting a woodstove, and have run into
some confusion on the question of hearths. Does anyone out there
know something about this subject? specifically, how thick does
the stone or brick need to be, does there need to be anything 
underneath it (heat shield, "wonderboard"), do you need to
reinforce the floor if you put in a masonry hearth, are there
any good books to consult on the subject,
etc.

We`ve spoken to a mason, two woodstove stores, a chimney/woodstove
installer, a stoneyard, the town building inspector, various friends,
and read a few books, and everyone seems to say something different
(e.g. you need 6" thickness of stone, you need 1" thick of stone, you
do need a heat shield, you don't need a heat shield, and so on.

Any help appreciated! Please reply via e-mail to selvin@nynexst.com.
Thanks.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Al Selvin      <selvin@nynexst.com>         NYNEX Science & Technology, Inc.
Expert Systems Lab                          500 Westchester Avenue
voice: (914) 644-2156                       White Plains, NY USA 10604
fax:   (914) 644-2404                     


Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,rec.climbing
From: gnray@world.std.com (Garry N Ray)
Subject: Re: So, Has Anyone climbed Mt. Washington recently?
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 21:55:36 GMT

Just thought I'd ask a more relevant question.
From: klee@wsl.dec.com (Ken Lee)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Sierra Club Outings
Date: 8 Jan 93 00:24:33 GMT
Reply-To: klee@wsl.dec.com
Organization: DEC Western Software Laboratory
NNTP-Posting-Host: alhambra.pa.dec.com

|>   how does one find out about trips offered by the local chapters?

They are listed in the chapter newsletter, sent to all chapter members.

-- 
Ken Lee
DEC Western Software Laboratory, Palo Alto, Calif.
Internet: klee@wsl.dec.com
uucp: uunet!decwrl!klee
From: stanley@mercedes.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Kendall S. Stanley)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Bay Area Skiing?
Date: 6 Jan 93 21:47:30 GMT
Distribution: ba
Organization: University of California, Berkeley

I realize that I am nuts, but I have always wanted to ski in the 
bay area just to say that I have done it.  Every third year or so
one gets reports of 4 to 6 inches at around 2000 to 3000 feet which
makes me think that it should be possible if one got up early 
enough in the morning to ski on roads that had not yet been destroyed
by cars.  Part of the challenge would be getting there.  Many roads get
closed at the first dusting.  I know that is the case for Mt. Hamilton
and Mt. Diablo.

Has anyone done this?  Surely there has been a ski descent of Mt. 
Hamilton and Mt. Diablo - hardly a technical challenge, but an oddity 
nonetheless.  One could certainly park ones car wherever they 
force you to do so and walk, though this might mean as much as ten 
miles of hiking each way for a short and lousy ski.  But, surely there
must be roads that they leave open at least to locals and those of
us willing to lie (and put on chains).  

Any ideas?

Ken
Xref: sparky rec.backcountry:10026 rec.photo:23250
From: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,rec.photo
Subject: Re: backpacking with medium format cameras
Date: 8 Jan 93 17:26:57 GMT
Reply-To: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Organization: COMANDOS Project, Glesga Yoonie

luong@sophia.inria.fr wrote:
> I am wondering if anyone often carries a medium format camera while
> doing mountain hikes. If yes, what models do you use, and what is the
> approximate weight ?

I've used an old Zeiss Super Ikonta 6x9 with uncoated Tessar 105mm lens:
the problem with this thing is its extreme flare.  I've given up on it.
Some UK mountain photographers still use the Ensign Selfix or Ranger
cameras, which are later clones of this but with good coatings - results
I've seen have been impressive.  These are the lightest option you'll get
(much lighter than a 35mm SLR) and will function in almost any weather
conditions.  There are many comparable cameras of varying price, age and
quality.  If the lens doesn't wobble when it's unfolded, the shutter
fires, and there aren't any holes in the bellows, you've probably got
something usable: not much can go wrong with these.

The other one I've used, and what I'll stick with in future, is a Minolta
Autocord TLR.  About the same weight as a 35mm SLR with zoom lens but far
better optical quality, at the price of some mechanical flakiness.  I'm
adding a bracket to my ski pole to let it do double duty as a monopod
specifically for this camera.  There is one problem with TLRs for this use,
though: if it's raining or snowing the ground glass makes a better
raingauge than a viewfinder.  I carry the camera in a padded Goretex pouch
made by Jessops for small video cameras, which has a couple of side pockets
just big enough to hold my usual assortment of filters and little gadgets.
This gives better protection and is faster to use than the ever-ready case
that came with the camera.  A Rollei or Yashica TLR would be comparable.

-- 
--  Jack Campin    room G092, Computing Science Department, Glasgow University,
17 Lilybank Gardens, Glasgow G12 8RZ, Scotland   TEL: 041 339 8855 x6854 (work)
INTERNET: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk or via nsfnet-relay.ac.uk    FAX: 041 330 4913
BANG!net: via mcsun and uknet     BITNET: via UKACRL    UUCP: jack@glasgow.uucp
From: pstryjew@colsun.Central.Sun.COM (Pete Stryjewski)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Sierra Club Outings
Date: 6 Jan 1993 16:13:03 GMT
Organization: "Sun Microsystems Computer Corporation, Dallas, TX."
Distribution: world
Reply-To: pstryjew@colsun.Central.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: stimpy.central.sun.com


Does anyone have any experiences (good/bad) with the Sierra Club Outings 
that they could share?  Some of the trips seem to reasonably priced and exciting.

I have planned/taken my own trips in the past, but with responsibilities at work
I don't have time to do extensive planning for an out of state trip.  Also, on
my last trip, my wife accused me of leading a death march (well, the first day
was a little much :-)).

Suggestions on value, leaders (ones to stay away from or good leaders), 
general trip info, etc.?  

Also, what is an average age for participants?  The local chapter is mostly 
40+ (nothing wrong with that) and don't have a lot in common with late-20yr
olds.


Pete Stryjewski
pstryjew@colsun.Central.Sun.COM