HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: radzy@cogsci.berkeley.edu (Tim Omelan Radzykewycz)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Poem
Date: 8 Apr 92 00:13:18 GMT
Article-I.D.: agate.rtdquINNfhd
Organization: Institute of Cognitive Studies, U.C. Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: cogsci.berkeley.edu
Originator: radzy@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU


Hi Folks!

I thought it might be a good time to start up the poetry
thread again, and since I (coincidentally) found a poem that
I wrote a few months back, I'll post it in hopes that it
gets poems flowing again!  Don't let me be alone out here!

Well, (gulp) here it is:


	The Full Moon in Autumn

	The wind, wending its way through the woods,
		it's chilly.
	A pair of starry eyes blinks at me,
		first one eye closes,
		the the other.
	Then they both open as the shadow of
		the cloud moves quickly past.
	I lay, alone,
		on a bed of autumn leaves,
		naked,
		and cold.
	The queen of the nighttime sky
		shines,
		brilliantly,
		on my face through the barren branches.
	Now I stand,
		looking upward,
		and close my eyes.
	I grow warm,
		and my fears and worries are
		carried away by the gentle breeze.
	I wait,
		it may be an hour,
		or just a minute,
		I can no longer tell.
	I look down and see myself,
		growing colder,
		in the beautiful brilliant benevolence
		of the goddess of the autumn sky.



Blessings!

------------------------------------------------------------
					|
	-- radzy			|
					|  An it harm none,
	Tim Omelan Radzykewycz     	|  do as ye will.
	The Incredible Radical Cabbage	|
					|
	radzy@cogsci.berkeley.edu	|
					|
------------------------------------------------------------
> Hi! I am a .signature virus. Copy me into your .signature to join in!
From: egnr76@castle.ed.ac.uk (A Kashko)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Defects (was worship of greek gods)
Date: 15 Apr 92 09:26:14 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

In article <4462@radian.UUCP> markbr@radian.UUCP (markbr) writes:
>In article <29E9D2BF.21742@noiro.acs.uci.edu>, cortese@hepxvt.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
>> And I'm beginning to wonder whether wearing these damned things and my
>> glasses isn't just training my eyes to be crappy.  I'd love to not wear
>> them for one year and see if my vision improved.
>
>I've seen a book with excercises to supposedly strengthen the eyes - never
>did try it long enough to see if it worked.

	I have a book called "Better sight without glasses" which says that
wearing glasses makes temporary ey sight problems permanent. It is based on the Bates method, and also includes dietary advice. Some people get marvelous
results from leaving their glasses of, but some get no result at all. I forget the author;s name.

	Like you I tend to forget to remove my glasses.
From: emarsh@hernes-sun.Eng.Sun.COM (Eric Marsh)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: alt.pagan survey
Date: 10 Apr 92 20:21:31 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: hernes-sun

In article <1992Apr10.195322.14030@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes:
>emarsh@hernes-sun.Eng.Sun.COM (Eric Marsh) writes:


: >18.	Can a person be a neo-pagan and a believer in a monotheistic
: >	religion which claims a male gender for its god?

: No

>Ok Eric. Explain your belief. I think that many would disagree with you.
>There are even some who call themselves witches who would disagree. Why 
>couldn't a pagan/neopagan have a monotheistic god? I know some who have
>a monotheistic goddess. Are they not pagan/neopagan?

I guess your right. Looking at the definition of pagan from my
dictionary, it says that pagan == !judeo-christian-(islamic?). By
this criteria, you can be pagan and believe in a monothiestic male god.

>What does a person's religion have to do with whether they are a pagan
>or neo-pagan anyway?

Well, if you go by my dictionary and pagan == !judeo-christian-(islamic?)
then religion does have a significant factor in determining whether
one is pagan or not.

>Bill

Eric
--
*  Eric Marsh   ---   email: emarsh@sun.com / standard disclaimers apply  *
*  DoD # 1332                                    dragbike pilot for hire  *
*  986cc Ninja street scooter   ----   GS1260 Suzuki Pro-Stock drag bike  *
From: marty@world.std.com (Marty M HaleEvans)
Subject: Re: Warfare and women
Organization: Hug a Bunny Today
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 17:25:11 GMT

In article <1992Apr12.170308.12319@demon.co.uk> Leo Smith <shaman@cix.compulink.co.uk> writes:
>At the risk of being flamed (probably by ailsa:-))
>I have to say that I agree with shava a lot on this - that womens
>agrressive instincst are (culturally? biologically?) channelled away
>from direct physical actions towards underhand methods. I don't think

I firmly believe this is cultural. Women (since Victorian times, especially)
have been taught that they're too weak to fight, shoot, whatever, and that it
wasn't "nice" do to these things. And, of course, being nice is the most 
important thing for women to be. :-P

>it is a coincidence that there are a lot of anecdotal statements
>about this matter - e.g. the female of the species is more deadly
>than the male - feme fatale - or even the rather unpleasant usage of
>a term referring to an identifiable female piece of sexual apparatus
>to represent a man who is devious and treacherous.

Again, I think this is pretty much all cultural stereotype, as well as perhaps
blatant control propaganda. It's another form of putting-on-a-pedastal, and
wrapping women in a smothering veil of mystique, instead of dealing with 
feminine reality. In the case of the distasteful term useage, it's a case of
after the fact stereotyping -- a male-dominated culture made women this way by
removing overt tools and methods of power, then slams them for using the only
methods (underhanded) left to their disposal.

And, BTW, I'm not blaming you -- you expressed yourself quite civilly. :->

Marty

=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
Marty Hale-Evans            marty@world.std.com             JKRS85C on PRODIGY
"Walking to school this morning I worshipped all things. You might say that's 
warped! Did I just forget about pollution, prejudice, and how there's people in
a war?????????? Excuse me but I know that! Can I help it if right this second
I get something incredible?"     -- Maybonne
From: rosst@pogo.wv.tek.com (Ross Taylor)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Worship of the Greek gods
Date: 14 Apr 92 21:24:50 GMT
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Wilsonville,  OR.

In article <29E6093F.5262@noiro.acs.uci.edu> cortese@hepxvt.ps.uci.edu (Janis
Maria Cortese) writes: 
>... Then there's stuff that you can live well with
>but is a pain in the ass, and would get you killed in very short order 
>in a less techie society, like myopia. 


Of course the same has been true for over one million years.  Back then
people were complaining that the use of pebble tools was allowing people to
survive who had shrunken canine teeth and worthless claws.  For shear
ugliness, those defectives who had no hair on their bodies and wore the hairy
skins of animals had to be the worst.
From: tim@hoptoad.uucp (Tim Maroney)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Polytheism (was: Re: Are there Pagan Atheists?)
Date: 14 Apr 92 15:15:05 GMT
Reply-To: tim@hoptoad.UUCP (Tim Maroney)
Organization: The Mother of All Exagerrations

In article <1992Apr14.000848.1074@samba.oit.unc.edu> shava@hermes.oit.unc.edu
(Shava Nerad Averett) writes:
>One of the hardest things that many Unitarians have with CUUPS (as a
>related side note) is that they can't understand how Unitarians (who
>split off from Congregationalists over the issue of the trinity) could
>possibly have anything in common with a polytheist religion.

Modern pagans tend to be henotheists rather than polytheists anyway.
-- 
Tim Maroney, Communications and User Interface Engineer
{apple!sun}!hoptoad!tim, tim@toad.com

"Now hear a plain fact: Swedenborg has not written one new truth: Now hear
  another: he has written all the old falshoods.
 And now hear the reason.  He conversed with Angels who are all religious, &
  conversed not with Devils who all hate religion..."
    - Blake, "The Marriage of Heaven and Hell"
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: S7041551@deimos.ucc.umass.edu (Lew Stead)
Subject: Re: Jesus was a pagan and lonely wiccians
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Amherst
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 05:24:34 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.20

In <1992Apr10.041435.7808@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> an725@cleveland.Freenet.Edu writes:

> 
> This is in regard to "Jesus was a pagan" part of the original subject.
> 
> From what I know about Jesus I would say He was most likely was a 
> pagan.  It's too bad that some "christians" have done terrible things
> in the name of Jesus.

Jesus was a Jew.  He, being part of the Jewish Tradition, was a monotheist.
He was not a Pagan in any way shape or form.  While some of his social ideas
certainly are in line with many of the social ideas of todays Pagans (and
many are NOT), the same could be said of any religion or philosophy.

If you look at his religious teachings, there's no mention of any sort of
polytheism, feminine divinity, or anything else Pagan.  It's just a few bits
of "be nice to one another" stuff that resonates with us -- and we don't have
a monopoly on being nice.
From: tldevers@miavx3.mid.muohio.edu
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Help on Beltane
Keywords: Beltane
Date: 15 Apr 92 14:31:43 GMT
Distribution: alt.pagan


  Hello, I am a newcomer to Paganism. I would like to know more. I have 
become disillusioned by other, organized religions, and I have felt the 
calling of the old gods. I have read some books on magick, and 
practiced some. I believe. I need more knowledge to continue. Where can I
find such knowledge? Also, I would like to know more about the ceremonies
and rituals for Beltane. Preferably before May 1>
From: tim@hoptoad.uucp (Tim Maroney)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Defects (was worship of greek gods)
Date: 15 Apr 92 22:04:51 GMT
Reply-To: tim@hoptoad.UUCP (Tim Maroney)
Organization: Sliced Eyes 'R' Us

In article <20219@castle.ed.ac.uk> egnr76@castle.ed.ac.uk (A Kashko) writes:
>	I have a book called "Better sight without glasses" which says that
>wearing glasses makes temporary ey sight problems permanent. It is based on the Bates method, and also includes dietary advice. Some people get marvelous
>results from leaving their glasses of, but some get no result at all. I forget the author;s name.

The Bates method was authoritatively debunked decades ago.  But bad pennies
just keep turning up, don't they?  I believe you can find out more about
this form of quack medicine in Martin Gardner's FADS AND FALLACIES IN THE
NAME OF SCIENCE.
-- 
Tim Maroney, Communications and User Interface Engineer
{apple!sun}!hoptoad!tim, tim@toad.com

"This signature is not to be quoted." -- Erland Sommarskog
From: treon@milton.u.washington.edu (Treon Verdery)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: .            what have you forgotten?
Date: 10 Apr 92 11:11:14 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle


Hello, erry Mmeet!

(That was a typo, but I'll stick with it - 'cause it 
 sees to contain the essence of what I wanted to ask
 everyone about.)


(sees?  -hey, that one works too!)


um, well, I have this feeling.  I feel as if I've changed somehow,
or forgotten something.  Sort of like the top 1/3 of my soul
is on vacation somewhere.  my alertness, and depth+complexity
of feeling and sensation have lost their shine.

I feel rather like a generic person, rather than that special
person each of us knows as "me".  I suppose all of us have had
fantasies that we were the only real humans, and the rest were
just stage dressing.

I honestly feel like I am the figment of somone else's imagination!

Well, what does this have to do with Paganism?


	Not much, exactly, but something...
			       

I remember something kind of nonspecific about refusing, or turning
away from some kind of potent spiritual(?) knowledge/power/contact.

It is hard to separate the wishful thinking from reality - but there
is something of abdication to this whole thing...


I guess a symptom that particularly shocks me is that when I'm in
conversation with someone about something 'potentially fascinating'
instead of allowing the breathtaking fascination of it to carry
me away - and into a really *connected* conversation, I just
watch it go by - sort of like television...or not picking
pennies up off the ground.



Hmm... well, does this strike a chord in anyone, especially
some sort of pagan chord?


in the meantime

random acts of kindness and senseless acts of beauty!


treon
From: dprintz@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (The Ludeman )
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: POEM: Goddess
Date: 17 Apr 92 16:09:08 GMT
Article-I.D.: sdcc12.31744
Organization: University of California, San Diego

This is the first in a series in the tradition of Jackson Mac Low
which I am writing for a friend.  It was thought someone might
find it of interest on this group.  Any comments from the pagan
community should be directed by mail, for I am not subscribed
to this group.


		1 Mac Low for Dawn Heller


Goddess, our mistress, we dedicate our lives to you  
sOothing the ever-present child 
reDeveloping the world in your image(
preDeterminate of life,
predEterminate of the eternal cycle)
impreSs upon us your wisdom 
goddesS of the circuit of life 
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: alt.pagan survey
Organization: Hewlett-Parkard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 22:58:21 GMT

emarsh@hernes-sun.Eng.Sun.COM (Eric Marsh) writes:

: >What does a person's religion have to do with whether they are a pagan
: >or neo-pagan anyway?
: 
: Well, if you go by my dictionary and pagan == !judeo-christian-(islamic?)
: then religion does have a significant factor in determining whether
: one is pagan or not.
: 
: Eric

Yes and no. As you yourself posted, a person could be an atheist and still
be pagan. As such - religion is not involved. Also, why couldn't a person
be Judaic, Christian or Islamic and still be pagan? What do you call a  
person who practices the Christian faith but also practices Witchcraft,
for example? Or an Islamic person who also believes in other gods?

Bill
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: New Age/Christian Survey -Help! 
Organization: Hewlett-Parkard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 19:57:56 GMT

ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe) writes:
: 
: I would suggest not responding to this person on three grounds:
: 1. paganism is not "New Age" or Christian
: 2. this may be an attempt to get @dresses for hassling folks (I suspect that the
: author may be a born-again Christian; see my third reason)
: 3. the questions are very Christo-centric, and use assumptions which many
: mainline Christians would find questionable

Well, if the questions are not answered, then the person's perceptions will
definately remain the same.

I would like to see a broad cross-section of people posting to this group
making a response. If the person was looking for @addresses, all he would
have to do is look at the posted messages.

I think the posting is by a person who just has no idea about any religion
other than his own. If you wish to remain silent, that is your right. 

Bill
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: xcz13@isuvax.iastate.edu
Subject: elves
Reply-To: xcz13@isuvax.iastate.edu
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 17:54:11 GMT

i would like info on elf groups in the ethrel plane
also of an entity on that (or another)plane going by constinten
seem s to be old, may be tall. my own impresion.

ELF-KIN travaling threw the merky relm of reality- well maybe
From: shaman@cix.compulink.co.uk (Leo Smith)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Poetry etc.
Date: 12 Apr 92 17:02:59 GMT
Reply-To: Leo Smith <shaman@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Organization: Gated to News by demon.co.uk

.. Well this is one from about twenty years ago.

        A SHORT SPELL

Take me, West wind, take me through the nightmare
Of triviality, to the centre of my heart
Steel me, Esat wind, steel me the better to face it
And to play my part
Caress me, Souht wind, caress me and in the warmth
of Summer let me lay my cares
Awaken me, North wind, awaken me to danger
Let me always in time bewares.

        Watching the tide flow in and ebb
        Centred at the heart of man's mortal web
        Knowing nature is, and is as She does,
        And mostly we're a part of all she was..
        Yet knowing spaces beyond the wheels of time
        Trying to translate in terms of song and rhyme
        Feeling there is but one more part to play
        Only in knowing can I know of my way

See by day the spirit eggs arise and move
Through Astral spaces - look how they groove
When young, yet dissappointed do they wilt
As their reflection - man - sinks in age and guilt!

        And mystics plead with men who yearn
        To let their passion in its fire to burn
        That in hopes and peace the spirit yet may feed
        On where it stops in thought and deed
        Gaining ground against death's primal urge
        Against despair, against the passions' surge
        Till at last, 'tis time to hatch the cosmic chick
        And Gods, not men, are born - Knowers of a different trick:-)
From: loren@wmkt.wharton.upenn.edu (Loren Miller)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Worship of the Greek gods
Date: 8 Apr 92 15:28:34 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Wharton Marketing

In article <29E23424.27938@noiro.acs.uci.edu> cortese@hepxvt.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
>I did not ask for what
>happened to me and my family, and if I am "sensitive," that's just too
>bad for the rest of you.  *I* bear the scars of what happened to me, and
>if it's too much for *you* to bear, that's just too damned bad.

Go ahead, be proud of your scars. I hail you for it. However, there is a 
difference between sensitive and over-sensitive. In the case of my original 
comment, which stated that the murderous history of the roman republic bore 
a remarkable similarity to the history of the mafia, I can discern no hint 
that I'm tarring all italians or sicilians as murderous thugs. I was 
astounded when you responded as if I were. I do not intend to invalidate 
your feelings, your sensitivity, your heritage, only to point out that you 
did not address what I said, but rather put words into my mouth and 
responded indignantly to them. I disclaim all responsibility for any of "my" 
opinions which, in fact, I do not hold, and which were forced upon me by 
your or anybody else's misunderstanding.

If I had said what you attacked me for saying, then I would apologize. As I 
did not, I operate under the assumption that the wiser course of action is 
to inform you that you were the person who put in my mouth the imprecations 
you found so distasteful.

>And I make no excuses for the Mob.  They are a filthy bunch of murdering
>criminals who belong behind bars.

My turn! Not all italians are murderers or carry knives and I'm very angry 
at you for insulting all my italian friends in philadelphia. ;-} Note that I 
am writing this from philadelphia.
-- 
+++++++++++++++++++++++23
Loren Miller              LOREN@wmkt.wharton.upenn.edu
Shoes are the most basic prerequisite for liberty
Organization: University of Maine System
Date: Saturday, 11 Apr 1992 16:12:58 EDT
From: Ailsa N.T. Murphy <IO81409@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Discordianism (was: "What does PAGAN mean anyway?")
 <28588@hoptoad.uucp> <1992Apr10.164723.4932@ulowell.ulowell.edu>

personally, from my reading of myths, i do not class Loki as
a trickster.  sorry i keep saying that i raelly must go into
my reasons, and never doing so, but it would take more time
than i have at this point.  you can't explain all your thinking
on your primary deity in a short tim, or at least *I* can't!

                                       -ailsa
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: ai210@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Josh Steier)
Subject: Re: Herbals Request: Stomach Nausea
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 92 05:08:13 GMT


Janis, the THC pills are inferior to the consumption of the actual
herb. It is much more difficult to monitor the dosage, since the
pills are too strong for many patients, and hard to split in two.
Also, there is a suspicion that the mixed cannabanols are more effective
than just the THC purified in the pills.


Therefore, the current medical practice in this oh so enlightened
part of northeastern ohio is for the patient to go out and buy some
pot from a drug dealer, or grow your own. (I know at least two people
who are growing it at home themselves).


The neopuritans, of course, are ignoring the almost unanimous 
recommendation of HIV specialist doctors to legalize marijuana for
medical purposes.


be well
josh
From: wrasman@cs.utk.edu ('Walker Of Change')
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: hair color
Date: 13 Apr 92 05:23:33 GMT
Organization: University of Tennessee, Knoxville - CS Department
NNTP-Posting-Host: duncan.cs.utk.edu

In article <sak4hINN6q@agate.berkeley.edu> gaucher@lynx.berkeley.edu writes:
>All this talk in alt.pagan about magick and hair has
>caused me to think about the old superstitions surrounding
>different hair colors, specifically those concerning
>RED hair. Can anyone tell me why red hair has received
>such negative attention in the magickal community throughout
>the ages? I have heard that there are still fishermen in
>Western Ireland who will not go fishing if they see a
>red-headed woman on the way to their boat! Where does all
>this stuff come from?!

I do know that red hair was often the sign or violence to come and someone with
a bad temper. Also many warriors in battle would be bathed in blood and have
red hair. Also one origin of the christmas tree has as ornaments the head of
fallen enemies on it. Giving the colors of red and green. But red hair wasn't
and isn't as common. It often pops up in a family where everyone else has dark
hair. This person was then often thought to have some type of power ( depends
on which culture and what part of history.) Recessive genes weren't discovered
yet.
-- 
  @             Internet:wrasman@cs.utk.edu, as766@cleveland.freenet.edu 
 (!=>---        Bitnet:Razron@utkvx                                      
 / ) Raz        Usnail: 1629 w. Cumberland 818A Knoxville,TN 37916       
Xref: sparky alt.pagan:4543 sci.skeptic:7965