From: ninjam@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Marty)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: re: Which Styles (Wing Chun)
Date: 8 Apr 92 21:43:50 GMT
Article-I.D.: uwm.1992Apr8.214350.15538
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Originator: ninjam@csd4.csd.uwm.edu

poore@ds9.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore) says:


>Well, it may have nothing to do with it. However, if Yip Men were going
>to pronounce an heir, is it likely that this person would be: a) so
>young, b) moving to another continenent and c) he could have been
>studying for a maximum of a few years given his age when Yip Men had
>many other students who were more senior, continuing to live in HK, and
>by most accounts much better? Of the core of Yip Men's closest students,
>I believe Moy Yat, Leung Ting, and Wong Shun Leung all stayed in Hong
>Kong until after his death. Just seems a little strange to me, given
>what is known about Yip Men.

Good points.  As I said before, I don't really have an opinion about it,
just realying what the general story was.  One thing I can add though,
is that the student with the most senority is not always the one chosen for 
Grandmaster.  From what I've seent there's been a number of times when
a lower level senior student who is greater in skill or other such abilities
is chosen (ie his wisdom or tolerance could be greater than a student with
greater senority).   As always though it's up to Grandmasters judgement.

>>(BTW- It's Yip Man).  True, I wasn't trying to say there was a "Yip Man"

>Thanks for the correction...again.
Oh yah, we had the conversation once before....whoops... :)
Yip Man or Yip Men I guess...... ;)

>>On a side note, by teaching their own personal Wing Chun, that would
>>be going against the of idea of Wing Chun in the first place, and
>>as we both agree, what Yip Man would have wanted.  Also according

>...these two statements seem to contradict one another...could you
>clarify this a bit?

Sure.  As you said before, Yip Ma/en used to tailor Wing Chun to the
individual.  What I meant, was that if an WC instructor goes and teaches
his students his own personal WC instead of tailoring WC to the 
individual students needs, as we both have said Yip Ma/en did, then
he would be going against Wing Chun principles, and what Yip Ma/en
himself tried to instruct.
Is that a little clearer? :)

>>From the tailoring aspect though, you can also see how this helped in
>>the forming of the basis of JKD.  Very interesting.

>Yes. It reminds me of a story my Indian history professor told. When
>describing Hindus (he's a Sikh, so maybe it's a bit wacky!;) he would
>always say: Hindus think everyone is a Hindu, whether they realize it or
>not. Nehru? He's a good Hindu. Buddha? Oh, he was a veery good Hindu.
>
>All the older Wing Chun people I've talked to always say the same thing
>about Bruce Lee. Oh, he was pretty good Wing Chun player. The attitude
>always seems to be one of confusion about JKD, since they seem to
>believe all he was doing was his own Wing Chun.

I think part of the reason is because of Bruce's letters back and forth
to Hawkins Cheung (who was still under Yip Ma/en) and Bruce's private
conversations between Yip Ma/en and himself when he came back to Hong
Kong for a visit for a few times.
No one really knows what was discussed between Bruce and Yip Ma/en,
but Hawkins Cheung came out and said that in his letters Bruce
said that he never meant to create another style and that JKD was
just supposed to be his expression of Lop Sao.  I assume what happened
is that thru the years it blossomed from there as Bruce came
with the realization of the totall goal of Jeet Kune Do.  That of a 
totall conciousness transcending all styles by becoming a style
of no style an art of all arts, existing yet not existing.
(Sounds like a character speaking on Star Trek, doesn't it? ;) )
So I guess in that sense, the goals started from Wing Chun, and
in all practicality Wing Chun is considered as the spring board.
Bruce went and took the principle of tailoring Wing Chun too your
needs and strethched that principle into what became JKD.  So
I can guess that's why many of the elder Wing Chun people still consider
Bruce a Wing Chun man to this day.

Take care!

Marty

David Poore
poore@ds9.scri.fsu.edu