From: kremer@taveng.enet.dec.com ()
Subject: Re: Deportation vs. Murder
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 09:23:04 GMT


In article <Jan.3.14.13.22.1993.5440@caip.rutgers.edu>, 
marwang@caip.rutgers.edu (Marwan Gharaybeh) writes:

>>This newsgroup has got to be one of the greatest collections of garbage
>>on the net.
>
>True ... I smelled the scent when the title of your article came up on
>my screen.

	It's the same title that was on your article - you fool.
	
>>1) Gharaybeh is proud that he can refute the great "black lie" that the
>>   Jews "WERE NOT THE FIRST TO BE IN PALESTINE". But who ever claimed
>>   that absurdity?
>>    
>>   Gharaybeh, there is a book called "the Bible". Most Jews and
>>   Christians have heard of it. Whether you believe in it or not, the
>>   Bible is the most authoritative book on what the Jews' claim is their
>>   right to the Land of Israel.
>
>Not true ... The Zionist claim in Palestine have always been "Historical".
>If you are saying that this "Historical" claim is SOLELY originated from
>your bible then the zionist "Historical" claim in Palestine is very week.

	I guess you still don't understand. An historical claim does not
	necessarily mean that they were the first or only to inhabit the
	Land. 
	
	Where do YOU think the Jewish historical claim originated? Maybe
	you've got some secret document? Even those Jews who do not
	accept the Bible as a holy book still accept it as part of their
	heritage. Again read closely - ZIONIST DO HAVE AN HISTORICAL
	CLAIM BUT THAT DOES NOT MEAN THEY WERE THE FIRST TO INHABIT THE
	LAND. Abraham (father of the Moslems as well) purchased part of
	the land from the original natives. And yes we did later conquer
	the land from the Caananites and the other pagan nations that
	inhabited the land before us.
	
>Are we supposed to believe that the Jewish people are the best people on
>earth ?!!!

	If you want to believe that - be my guest. But if you want the
	Jewish opinion then look into Jewish sources and you'll see that
	although the Jews believe they have a unique mission on Earth,
	that does not make them "the best people on earth". Again you
	keep demonstrating your absolute ignorance and prejudice.

>Allowing those 1-meter-beard-long people to teach us about the history
>is not understandable nor credible.

	Oops your anti-Semitism is showing again.  What does
	1-meter-beard-long people have to do with this discussion unless
	you are referring to the Hamas leaders?
	Are you disputing the Bible's claim that the Jews were NOT the
	first to inhabit the Land?  If so, then you're contradicting
	yourself.


>Does you bible preaches its followers to:
>
>  1) Hunt down 10 year olds in the streets with machine guns.

	No.
>
>  2) Continuous oppressing the other people living along side the jews
>     with fire and iron.

	No.
>
>  3) allowing only people whose mother (not father or one's self) is
>     Jewish to illegally immigrate to Palestine and deport the 
>     righteous owners.
	No.
	
	These are all part of your BIG lie. Show me your Biblical sources
	for these if you have any?

>And by the way please post from your bible the International borders
>of EREST YETSRAEL as promised by your bible, so that every one can see
>and judge for themselves.

	No doubt about it - the borders of the 'historical' Land of
	Israel extends from Wadi El-Arish in the south to the Euphrates
	in the North.  So what?    We never claimed that we have an
	obligation to conquer all of the Land which historically is ours.
	NO RABBI ADVOCATES (PRIVATELY OR PUBLICLY) THE CONQUEST OF THE
	ENTIRE LAND OF ISRAEL.  As you well know, many Jews (religious
	Jews as well) believe that, for the sake of peace, even parts of
	our land, which we defacto ALREADY CONTROL, can be relinquished.

	Your people however DO claim that they have a religious
	obligation to free all so-called Arab land from the foreigners.
	22 states isn't enough for you - you need it all. What right do
	you have to preach moderation to us?

>Taking the bible to be the only source by which the "legality" of the
>foundation of the illegal state of Israel is deducted is not only
>very week but it is also untrue ... I am sure that most of the zionists
>on this net do not agree with you. The zionist claim in Palestine had
>always been historical and if you look into several of those heroic
>documentaries about the creation of this illegal state you would 
>know beyond any doubt that you do not know what you are talking about.

	I never said that the Bible is the ONLY source for claiming
	legality of the State of Israel. Maybe it's easier for you to
	think that. I don't need to prove legality. We're here - like it
	or not. 
	
	By the way, what in your opinion makes a state "legal"? A
	declaration by a leader of a terrorist gang? 

>>2) Yes, you're right "In those 3000 years a lot has changed" but if
>>   Palestinians can claim (proudly?) a linkage to those primitive,
>>   child-sacrificing pagan nations (Philistines, Caananites, etc.)  which
>>   even the Koran detests and which even you agree pre-date the Hebrews,
>>   then why do you see it as incomprehensible that we claim descendance
>>   from the original Hebrews?
>>   
>Again you demonstrate public stupidity ... 3000 years ago Islam was not
>even born yet.

	Idiot. Where did I say that ISLAM existed before the Jews?

	In this newsgroup, YOUR supporters raised all kinds of
	irrelevent, sophisticated theories claiming that the ARABS were
	here before the Jews and that the "palestinians" are descendants
	of the Cannanites and/or Philistines and/or those Arab tribes
	from Saudi Arabia near Yemen. So now that is not TRUE ????  
	Hey guys, get your story together.  

>>3) I'd like to know what Jewish source you've got that claims we are a
>>   "race". I've heard Jews claim that we are a nation, culture, ethnic
>>   group and even religion but only the anti-semites call us a "race".
>
>Arabs are Semite ... They cannot be Anti-Semite.

	English lesson:
	
	anti-Semite n. A person hostile toward Jews 
	(The American Heritage Dictionary)
	
	What does your dictionary say????

>>   What gives the Israeli Army the right and OBLIGATION to "hunt down"
>>   stone-throwers is the right of the Israeli people to live in security.
>
>Itzhak is telling us that it is a right and OBLIGATION for the police
>to hunt down 10 year olds who are trying to get rid of the ugly 
>oppressor. WELL ITZHAK does that mean that it was the right and
>obligations of the chinese police to hunt down the people that gathered
>in Tiniamin square in china ... or was it a right and OBLIGATION for the
>communists to hunt down those CRIMINALS that gathered near the Kremlin
>one year ago shouting DOWN WITH COMMUNISM ....

	Did the "people that gathered in Tiniamin square in china" throw
	rocks and fire bombs at passing CIVILIAN cars? How about "those
	CRIMINALS that gathered near the Kremlin"?
	
>Civilian uprising has always been a praised one. And history again
>proves that.

	So if the Jewish civilians rise up in mobs and start killing Arabs
	you'll praise that too.
	
>>   I certainly would not like to live in a country where even 10-year
>>   olds are given the freedom to stone and fire-bomb cars at will - would
>>   you?????
>>  
>These 10 year olds are fighting for a righteous principle, a principle,
>something you would never understand.

	Destroying the Jewish State is indeed a righteous principle for
	all anti-Semites. If you think that a 10-year-old knows what a
	righteous principle is or is not, then you obviously don't have
	children of your own.  I feel sorry that these kids have cowardly
	parents that are willing to endanger the lives of their own
	children rather than fight themselves for their beliefs.

- Itzhak
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:25108 talk.politics.soviet:10362 soc.history:10629