From: banerjee@titan.trl.OZ.AU (Arindam Banerjee)
Subject: Re: INDIAN CULTURE - Subservient
Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne, Australia
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 04:42:17 GMT

From article <1992Nov17.010719.5550@massey.ac.nz>, by J.Ainikkal@massey.ac.nz (J. Ainikkal):
> Rohit Parikh writes:
> 
>  
>>It is true that ours is a great culture - or more precisely, our
>>culture has a great past.  It is also true that we have fallen
>>on bad days and instead of building on our past, we try to
>>choose between mindlessly obeying our ancestors and mindlessly
>>obeying the Westerners.  Perhaps this is a consequence of a 700
>>year rule by a Muslim minority, followed by two hundred years
>>of British rule.  But some signs of decay are visible already
>>in India after the death of Harsha-Vardhan and that cannot be
>>explained through foreign invasion. 

After Harsha, there was no great Hindu ruler to unite India, so India
fell to invaders. But prior to Harsha, India had repelled or absorbed a
variety of invaders: Parthians, Sakas and most importantly Hunas who
later became the most stalwart defenders of India.Hinduism  had also won
the greatest cold war of all time - victory over Buddhism which now no
longer exists as it once did. All these things had weakened Hindusim and
as you say signs of decay became visible. In practical terms it meant
the subordination of women and hardening of the caste system with
introduction of many senseless rituals. In karmic terms this debasement
of the original life-giving ideas demanded retribution, and we had this
in the form of Islam, which demanded equality of the downtrodden. 
  
> One of the fundamental problems with our culture was/is the
> subservient attitudes it introduces in people. It is easy to
> conquer a country - a totally different matter to rule it. It is
> when the culture within the country promotes subservience that
> 'rule over the masses' becomes easy.

Now this statement - that Indians are subservient - is more fashionable
than accurate. Have you dealt with hired helps? 

In my view Indians are NOT subservient. They are only patient - very
very patient - and equally tolerant. 

The Indian does not think much of the State, as opposed to SOCIETY. So
it does not matter who is in charge of the State, whether Muslims or
British or our brown Sahibs.
 
> How did the British subjugate the masses for centuries? Were they
> truly 'benevolent' and 'equal' and 'just' rulers? - No. 

British rule all over India lasted for less than 90 years. And that too
because many people genuinely thought that it would do India good to
accept foreign ideas - read the last few lines of the great Indian
nationalist Bankim Chandra's Ananda Math.
  
> So why did the masses accept them? Only reason was/is the
> subservience promoted by our culture. Our cultural heritage of
> the past 1000 years stinks. Why are we so afraid to say it? 
> Is it because many of us believe that all we have today to
> convince our AFFLUENT neighbours is our 'culture'? (The usual
> argument of how the U.S. does not have a 'culture').

The masses "accepted" foreign rule largely because the masses did not
care who ruled them so long as they were left alone to mind their own
business. When Aurangzeb Alamgir departed from earlier policy and
imposed the hated jiziya tax, Mughal rule collapsed in little time
showing how subservient Hindus really are. Read a bit of Indian history
and find out the bravery of the Jats and the Marathas and the Sikhs.

Evidently people who have no idea about the Indian culture and are insecure
about their whatever they call their own rubbish Indian culture. Our culture is our business - it
is our source of joy and pride just as an American could take pride in
his country's culture.
  
> Is it to promote pride in our community? Is it to show our self
> worth? Does the Indian culture of today justify such pride? 

Yes. Our social and cultural conditions have improved enormously over
the last hundred years, though we still have far, far to go .  In the
last century Hindusim was despised as a corruption of the One True
Faith, and it was thought by the Christians that it would be only a
matter of time before we would all be converted. Instead, Hinduism  is a
much reformed and vastly improved religion, still holding the unswerving
devotion of its adherents.   
> If it is pride and the need to 'prove' that we are as 'equal' as
> others, should we be ashmed of our poverty? Couldn't our
> achievements of the recent past and the success of the Indian
> community abroad give us pride? Why do we keep resorting to
> culture to prove we are 'equal' or 'better'? Why do we keep
> taking this trip into 'culture land' to prove our self worth?
>
Really do not understand what you mean here! I for myself would love to
go to India because I simply love India - to me no country is more
interesting. This does not conflict with my understanding that Australia
is a much better place to live in - perhaps the best place in the world
to live in. My visit to India will give me inner strength, and even
Australians understand this. As for India's poverty, I take it as well
something I cannot personally do much about at this juncture.
    
>>Let us reject what is destructive in our past and what is
>>destructive in the West.  And we can recover once more the great
>>creativity of the Indian mind. 

Amen to this.
 
> I certainly hope so. And while I am at it - I must also voice my
> opinion about how some o/seas Indians treat fellow Indians when
> they get back home. There is always this misguided 'air of
> superiority'. 

Let me tell you that "fellow Indians" have their own opinions about
o'seas Indians. Basically they are considered dead losses.
 
> When will we learn about our foolish prejudices?

Read some Indian history (Indian authors recommended - not Roberts!) and
 also Indian sociology and anthropology.  I would recommend the classic
work by M.N. Srinivas " Social Change in Modern India". Now this book
should clear the vast and foolish prejudices of many netters. I would also
recommend Greer's "Sex and Destiny" for all of you who believe that
India's population is a problem. I think it is our greatest potential asset. It is
a wonder how all educated Indians I know are prejudiced on this issue.

Arindam Banerjee
  
> John Ainikkal
Xref: sparky soc.culture.indian:37221 soc.culture.indian.telugu:1062