HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mss2@midway.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: Utopiae (Was: Amanda wants to be a Kesh)
Organization: Yale CS Mail/News Gateway
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 08:48:34 GMT


>On Sun, 13 Dec 1992 07:47:39 GMT, "Michael S. Schiffer" <mss2@kimbark.uchicago
.edu> wrote:
>> it.  A single central government like Niven's UN would by its nature
>> become more constricting, a scientific psychology would lend itself to
>> a truly horrendous tyranny, and that long world peace would either be
>> shattered by fanatics or the fanatics would be `cured'-- and I'm not
>> sure I _like_ the idea of government `psychists' deciding who needs to
>> be cured.

>Check out the MAN-KZIN WAR books.  Granted that most of the historical
>background is given in the Pournelle stories and is therefore a bit suspect,
>nevertheless the "Golden Age" starts to look downright threatening.

	Not surprising, given Pournelle's politics-- there's no _way_
he'd believe in the wholly benevolent use of the technologies implied.
And, as I say, I'm inclined to agree with him here; this century has had
several object lessons in how unpleasant a government can get if it
really tries.

>> civilization.  For those who don't get involved in a story, life seems
>> fairly pleasant and interesting, one has a choice of places to live
>> from the very civilized and comfortable to the newest of colony

>It has occurred to me that we *never* see how Everyman lives in Known Space.
>There are various remarks in various stories hinting that boosterspice is
>rather expensive, so we can assume that the common man/woman doesn't have
>access to it.  And the characters in Niven' stories are essentially the
>"elite".  Are you *sure* you want to chance it?

	Fair point.  And the answer is: absolutely not; I'll never be
*sure* I want to chance anything of the sort.  My answer was closer to
making the best of a bad deal than eagerly choosing to walk through
the one-way door.  My impression was that by Louis Wu's time,
boosterspice was reasonably widespread (as opposed to the period of "A
Relic of the Empire", where it's clearly a luxury item) but it isn't
all that clear, as Louis Wu is quite well off.  (How, we're never told
as far as I recall.  Being independently wealthy himself, Niven may
not give as much thought as many of us do to where our money actually
comes from.)  And it's always possible that the scenario he developed
for _Down in Flames_ will take place and war on the Doc Smith scale
will break out between the Tnuctipun and the species of Known Space.
No, I'm not packing my bags just yet-- but if I have to go, I'm more
likely to choose a fairly laid back world like Niven's than a
consciously designed utopia, as the latter are the ones which really
scare me.

Michael
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: trumpins@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Barbara Trumpinski)
Subject: Re: Dalek has entered the building
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 03:00:08 GMT

the dalek says:

>There is a eery quiver that sounds through the Place, similar to the
>familiar noise of the Doctor's TARDIS, but quicker, clearer and more 
>well tuned.  A large metal box appears in the middle of the Place.
>A door in the box opens, and a pepperpot shaped creature slides out.
>"Exterminate," cries the Dalek.  "Exterminate."
>No one in the place showest the slighest sign of terror.
>"Exterminate?" asks the Dalek.  He is suddenly struck by a stream 
>of positive emotions, a stream that bores into his brain and
>activates parts that the Dalek had long belived remove.  The Dalek
>finds happiness.  He'd like to order a drink, but has no experience
>ingesting alcohol.

"you don't have to drink alcohol here in the Place...but if you do it
won't hurt you...welcome..."  kitten is trying to figure out who exter
minute is ....
--
***************************************************************************
conan the librarian a.k.a. kitten           /\ /\  barbara ann 
"my life's a soap opera, isn't yours?"      {=.=}
                                              ~   trumpins@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu 
"love is the wild card of existance"
                          rita mae brown

Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: dgreen@jarthur.claremont.edu (David Green)
Subject: Fare-thee-wells
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 03:41:31 GMT

Mishael pulls himself out of a dark corner and pads somewhere into the light.
He clears his throat softly, and draws the attention of whoever happens to want
to give it to him...

"I know I'm not one of the most visible people here, nor necessarily one of the
gentlest tempered, nor a holder of a set of beliefs that seems particularly
popular here."  He pauses for a moment, swishes his tail a couple times, and
continues, "I've thought about leaving this place a lot over the last semester.
I sometimes don't feel like I have the time to keep up with things here,
sometimes feel as if there's too much of a conflict between my beliefs and
things that I see here...  Several times I found myself composing a 'goodbye,
I don't fit' message in my head.  But that message never got posted, that
decision never got made.  I've seen Callahan's change a *lot* since I first
found it... I can say with a lot of confidence on my part that it isn't the
same place it was two years ago."

The centauroid clouded leopard pauses again, looking a little thoughtful.  "But
somehow, as much as it's changed, as much as it's not the same place it was,
it's still the same Place.  And despite whatever thoughts I've had about
leeaving, whatever qualms and uncomfortabilities I've had about staying.. well,
I'm still here.  And probably will be for quite a while.  Somehow, there's
something about here that keeps drawing me back.

"However... some things are just ineluctable, such as the fact that while I'm
off on Christmas break from the 19th until the 16th of January, I don't have
any access to this account.  I think there's maybe a 50/50 shot at getting
email access, less of that account having access to Usenet if I do get it.
I do have things set up so that if I do get email access, I can tell my
account here (with a mail message) to start forwarding things there... but I'm
not quite sure what even that would get me.

"And now, with finals pressing in, I find myself having to do a sort of pick-
and-choose reading from here (I normally at least skim everything; I'm finding
time too tight now.)  So I'm going to be even quieter than usual here (which
will be hard to do :7 ) from now until I leave... and I thought I'd give my
goodbyes now in case I don't get another chance... 'specially to Didi, and
Thyra, and anyone else who encouraged me to stay when my mind was saying 'go'
that my sieve-for-a-brain has forgotten..."

And with that, he fades somewhat, and pads off back into the shadows...
-- 
dgreen@jarthur.claremont.edu		        	   David "Mishael" Green
		    Have you scritched your local Furry today? 
************************Who ordered the muon? -- I. I. Rabi*********************
  I have not been appointed Judge, Jury, or Executioner by God.  Just witness.
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: pope@physics.su.OZ.AU (The Nightstalker)
Subject: Re: Quantum (and untutored Zen) and Beliefs (was Re: Absolutes)
Organization: School of Physics, University of Sydney, Australia
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 07:41:20 GMT

In article <85375@ut-emx.uucp> jodybean@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (zaphod-) writes:
>About proof and truth and all that stuff... I was wondering if a sort
>of quotation call would be apropo:
>
>"I am lying"
>
>and all the various variations on down of this statement and it's 
>repercussions.  
>
>Just a thought, nothing more..
"I don't believe you!"

The Nightstalker...

--
Mick Pope,                                          |      "On Christ the
Sir Frank Packer Dept of Theoretical Physics,   ----|----   solid rock I
School of Physics, University of Sydney,            |       stand, all other
Sydney, Australia, 2006.  (02) 692 3241             |       ground is sinking
                                                    |       sand." - C. Wesley
Jesus is the reason for the season.                 | 
And the comment for today is:  
          
"Everything that exceeds the consumer's requirements is held violently"
                                -Thomas Aquinas
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: mar@physics.su.OZ.AU (David Mar)
Subject: Re: Hats
Organization: School of Physics, University of Sydney, Australia
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 00:17:39 GMT

> [Michael:] For no particular reason, I'm wondering who here chooses to
>wear hats in these post-Kennedy years, and what kind?

Danger Mouse, sipping at a mug of Earl Grey tea, answers:
"In RL I have a drab brownish akubra, but I don't wear it that often.
Usually just when I am travelling and need some shade over my face and
neck. The main reason I don't wear it more often is that it is slightly
too small for me (I got it cheap) and so is not as comfortable as it
should be. I mean to buy a better quality one some time, then I will
probably wear it most of the time I am outdoors in hot weather."

>Personally, I'm primarily curious about RL, but
>if your VR persona wears a particularly unusual accessory on
>his/her/its head or equivalent, this may be an opportunity to remind
>us all.  (I personally tend to be poor at remembering people's VR
>descriptions unless I'm continually reminded of them or they're
>implicit in the name.)

DM grins. "Well, don't worry too much about my VR appearance. In all my
time here, I have never described it. I just let the handle 'Danger
Mouse' stand as is, and people can imagine me to appear however they
wish. Such is the magic of meeting via ASCII!"

>	"Actually, that reminds me-- one other area of my ignorance is
>what names go to what hats.  I know what a fedora is, and a bowler,
>but much beyond that and I'm lost.  What's a Trilby?  A slouch hat?
>etc. etc.  If you have any doubts that anyone might know what you're
>talking about, you might want to describe it in detail.

"Hmmm... I'm not sure I can describe a hat in enough detail for people
to be able to visualise it. But here goes: an akubra is the 'standard'
Australian hat (oh, no, I do _not_ mean the wide brimmed thing with
dangling corks around the edges. Nobody really wears those.) If you've
seen real (not 'posed') pictures of Australians in hats, they are
probably wearing akubras. The hat is made of rabbit fur felt and somewhat
resembles a stetson, although not as cowboyish. The brim is not as wide
as a stetson, and doesn't curl up nearly so much on the sides. Akubras
tend to be rather lived-in, and become more amorphous in shape after
being dusted about and used to scoop up drinking water for one's horse.
They have a narrow band, usually leather of some sort. The top is dimpled
inward on the front corners, with the centre sunk down like most other
hats. They are, in fact, rather like fedoras in shape, except less neat.
They tend to come in drab earthen colours.

"Slouch hats are also Australian. They are like akubras with wider brims,
and one side turned up and pinned to the top of the hat. This is so one's
bayonet is not obstructed by the hat. They tend to be worn by the
military (the rest of us only get our bayonets out on special occasions
:-)  ). They have a thin leather strap which goes under the chin to keep
the hat on.

"And that's about as far as my hat knowledge goes. I have no idea what a
trilby looks like."

- Danger Mouse.
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: lydick@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Speaker-to-Minerals)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: Unbe Awakens
Date: 17 Dec 1992 01:51:33 GMT
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
Distribution: world
Reply-To: lydick@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu

In article <1992Dec09.222152.14771@onetouch.COM>, jpalmer@onetouch.COM (John Palmer) writes:
=byers@cl2.cl.uh.edu (Unbeliever) writes:
=>"The domain of Science is the explainable; the domain of Religion, the
=>inexplicable.  As Man grows wiser, Science will flourish, and Religion will
=>dwindle.  It is the Way of things."
=
=      Hmmm.  That seems to presume that everything has a good, rational basis,
=that every fact has a proof, and that everything important can be seen or
=measured or something.

It doesn't look to me as if it make that presumption.  The statement was that
religion would dwindle, not necessarily disappear.  Since the invention of
science, there's been quite a bit of stuff that was formerly in the domain of
religion that's moved to the domain of science (e.g., planetary motions,
evolution [though the creationists are doing their best to keep this in the
realm of religion]).  I can't think of anything that was ever in the domain of
science that religion has reappropriated.
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: pel@maximo.enet.dec.com (Phillip E lujan)
Subject: Re: Utopiae (Was: Amanda wants to be a Kesh)
Reply-To: pel@maximo.enet.dec.com (Phillip E lujan)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 15:48:14 GMT

In article <sf=0O1q00awSI2PEUt@andrew.cmu.edu>, Mark Beirne Lively <ml5a+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
|> Sorry just some random disjointed thoughts on or about this subject.  A
|> few years back I had a murphy's law calander which had all sorts of
|> "law" about the universe,  all of them very cynical or silly.  Nost of
|> them scarily accurate.  One of them was basically a restatement of the 3
|> laws of thermodynamics.  I can't remember what it was called.  They were
|> stated as the following.
|> 1)You can't Win
|> 2)You can't break even
|> 3)You can't quit the game.
|> 
|> The next day there was a corralary.
|> 
|> Every major world philosophy is based on breaking one of these threee rules.
|> 1)Capitalism is based on the principle that you can win
|> 2)Socialism is based on the principle that you can break even
|> 3)Mysticism is bases on the principle that you can quit the game.
|> 
|> "Strange Game the only winning move is not to play."
|> 	(Name the character and both of s/h/it's names and the movie and I'll
|> get you a drink.)
|>                                         ^^^^^^ Just a little commentary
|> on the the hir
|>                                                What ever the other PC
|> term is. I'm
|>                                                partial to they singular myself.
|> 
|> --
|> The writers are gifted.  The story has been lifted -Tiny Toons
|> Reality is a mild halucinogen and I think its starting to wear off.-Me
|> ML5A@andrew.cmu.edu Bear aka the Lord High Rulebender

"Damn," says Starknight.  "I remember the movie well enough; it's titled
WarGames.  As for s/h/it's names, one of them was Joshua, and the other was...
Damn, damn, damn!  I can't remember it, but it was a military acronym...
Close enough, Bear?"
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: li@Data-IO.COM (Phyllis Rostykus)
Subject: Re: Chess match
Organization: Data I/O Corporation
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 17:25:03 GMT

In article <1gme7qINNa7l@newsman.csu.murdoch.edu.au> keulen@csuvax1.csu.murdoch.edu.au (Splash!) writes:
>You're on ... ummm, that makes three of us so far.  Can you play three
>dimensional chess with three people?

"Hmmm... best make that 4-d with four people."  Liralen says with a smile.
"I can't play chess to save my life... even took a workshop in it and was
systematically the worst player in the class.  The instructor actually sat
down with me for an entire class time and eventually threw up his hands."
-- 
Phyllis Rostykus     | "... and how you feel can make it real  | - _US_
aka Liralen Li       | Real as anything you've seen            |   Peter
li@inigo.Data-IO.com | Get a life with this dreamer's dream."  |   Gabriel
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: pel@maximo.enet.dec.com (Phillip E lujan)
Subject: Re: Introduction
Reply-To: pel@maximo.enet.dec.com (Phillip E lujan)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 18:36:00 GMT

In article <104595@bu.edu>, mjmh@crsa.bu.edu (Michael J M Holmes) writes:
|> /*, resident C Honorary Comment, Open Purple Texan... uhm, no,
|> resident Purple C Open-Comment and Honorary Texan (whew!), welcomes
|> the newcomer, Starknight.
|> 
|> "I just want to get a clarification, however.  Something in me
|> keeps wanting to pronounce your name Stark - night, when I assume
|> that it is Star - knight.  And I seem to be a recent expert on
|> confusing VR names... "

"That's OK, they used to call me Stark on the CompuServe cyberCB for short...
I've only been using this handle for about 10 years now, and sometimes I'm
not too sure which way it should be pronounced, especially when there are
attractive females around...  By the way, I don't find your name confusing;
you should see some of the names I've had to deal with as a Space Ranger!"
Starknight pauses for breath.  "Or did you mean that you are confusing VR
names, not that your name is confusing?"
 
|> ;)
|> 
|> "But welcome to the Place!"

"Thanks.  Mike, another glass of grape soda (right) for /*, and I'll have
a rum collins.  Put it on my tab."
 
|> -- 
|> ========================================================================
|> Mike Holmes       mjmh@crsa.bu.edu           "Happiness Will Prevail!"
|> Boston University Department of Geography (a truly GREAT place to work!)
|> ========================================================================

"Yes, it shall.  Nice .sig you've got there."

------------
Starknight, aka Sean Roberts
Trying to make my corner of the Universe a little happier each day
From: pechever@phakt.usc.edu (The Heckler)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: Dalek has entered the building
Date: 15 Dec 1992 23:39:05 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: phakt.usc.edu

In article <1992Dec16.021601.27314@ra.msstate.edu> jmpierce@whale.st.usm.edu (Jimmy Malcolm Pierce) writes:
>  Linda gives Robbie a stern look, and then smiles ... Robbie blinks
>out. He is gone for several seconds and then re-appears... Holding a
>peanut turret. He walks over and hands it to Impu-Sebek.

Impu-Sebek emerges from the pool, dries off his hands (so as not to short
the Dalek out) and gets the turret from Robbie.

"Thanks, Robbie.  Thanks, Linda.  Now lessee...peanut feed goes here...
oil line...ball bearings...infundibulated frammistat...Q47-markJ plug...
yeah, that's the ticket."  A few turns with the Swiss Army knife's handy
screwdriver, and the Dalek's peanut turret is in place.

"All right!  Our friend Dalek's new peanut gun deserves a toast!"

Impu-Sebek runs up to the bar, gets an *extra*-big cockroach, and slurps it
down greedily.  (Oh if I could drink as many of these in RL!  Alas, they
taste great, but make you too drunk too fast.)  

"To Dalek's arrival!"

<Krash!>

Impu-Sebek
495th incarnation of McGyver
-- 
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
"Come, let us retract the foreskin of misconception and apply the wire
		brush of enlightenment."   --Geoff Miller  
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: maryb@cix.compulink.co.uk (Mary Branscombe)
Subject: Re: second thoughts about a friendship
Reply-To: maryb@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 14:06:00 +0000


"Hi Feather.
To be blunt - you *can't fill in anyone else's gaps all by yourself. 
You can maybe help and support them but only if they know hat's 
you're doing and what you're not doing and why and only if you feel 
*comfortable helping. Otherwise you probably make things worse. Help 
if you can and remember that if situations mean you can't it doesn't 
mean you don't care and it doesn't mean you aren't a nice person. 
Pass on the details to someone professional if you need to know 
something is being done. If you pull someone out of a a pit without 
them pushing, they will fall back in unless they do some climbing 
themself....
NB grammar note - over here "one" is very formal and a bit upper 
class as well. Like the royal we. So I use "you" but I tend to put a 
name in like Feather, you need to look after yourself too. We're 
usually generalising in these cases based on our own experience so 
the blurring of you may not be that bad a thing."

Mary sighs and looks around for a mirror so she can take her own 
advice
+-------------------------------------------+--------------------------+
| Organisation: Me? You're joking, right?   |maryb@cix.compulink.co.uk |
|                                           |maryb@cix.compulink.uucp  |
|I know I type "teh" for "the" My fingers have their own accent ;-)    |
+-------------------------------------------+--------------------------+

Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: jmpierce@whale.st.usm.edu (Jimmy Malcolm Pierce)
Subject: Re: Calling all Techers (especially lawyers)
Organization: University of Southern Mississippi
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 23:10:36 GMT

>	"Either I missed something in my quick look through CA law
>(always possible-- it's finals week here, and I don't have _that_ much
>time :-) ) or the folks in question are clueless, or they're trying to
>give the house members a scare.  Or some other motive I haven't come
>up with.  But it doesn't look to me like they'd have any significant
>chance of getting a felony conviction of a college student with no
>record for a bonfire which didn't cause any property damage or injury.
>And insofar as they're claiming they can, they're not being honest,
>IMHO."
>Michael

 I can think of one reason. Someone in the D.A.'s office or the Fire
Department is coming up for re-election. Or they decided to punish
the House for the Moron next door calling them, instead of punishing
the caller for filing a false alarm. Hmm. That might work, getting the
person who called them for making a false call, especially if the
caller knows you do this every year.
     Jim.

-- 
 Jim Pierce Bach. of Sci. in Applied Computer Science USM - Gulf Park Campus 
             jmpierce@whale.st.usm.edu  Disclaimer: Standard.
             Video. Cher: Love and Understanding.
From: ajm@wag.caltech.edu (Abner J. Mintz)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: Prejudice
Date: 17 Dec 1992 09:18:18 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: seurat.wag.caltech.edu


>>"Strangely enough, I get that same scared feeling about the Home Alone movies.
>>I mean, the thieves are villains, all right, but watching the audience cheer
>>as people get burned, nails stuck through their feet, hot irons on their
>>heads, burned hands, cracked skulls ...  Why do people get pleasure out of
>>the realistic depiction of pain?"

Doug says:
>It is probably just displacement behavior.

"That sounds like a psychology term of some sort.  What do you mean?"
From: keulen@csuvax1.csu.murdoch.edu.au (Splash!)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: New Year Pizza Party (Was: Re: On shoes and ships and sealing wax,
Date: 17 Dec 1992 23:22:07 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: csuvax1.csu.murdoch.edu.au

mar@physics.su.OZ.AU (David Mar) writes:

>DM suggests, "I think the host should be an old-timer - someone who has
>been here for both previous New Year Pizza Parties. That rules me out,
>since I was only here for the last one. Are any old-timers ready to
>step into Nicarra's shoes for this occasion? If nobody who has been
>around here longer than I have volunteers, I guess I can have a go at
>it."

I'll certainly be here for that ... ummm ... New Year's Eve - who's time zone?

Splash!  (to whom these things make a significant difference)

--
		Splash!		*To love is to LIVE!*
   (aka Mike van Keulen -- e-mail: keulen@csuvax1.murdoch.edu.au)