HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: 76206.2342@compuserve.COM (WILLIAM KYLE)
Subject: digest
Organization: The Internet
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 14:32:42 GMT

Is there a problem? I have not receieved a digest in the past week.

cahan

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: archer@utkux1.utk.edu (T. Archer)
Subject: Re: Why not pentacles:
Organization: University of Tennessee Division of Continuing Education
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 14:09:24 GMT

In article <711487586.F00001@ocitor.fidonet> Tim@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Tim) writes:

> TA> In article <711356420.F00004@blkcat.UUCP> 
> TA> Joe.Bethancourt@f166.n114.z1.fidonet.org (Joe Bethancourt) writes:

> TA> >As a piece of information as to "Why don't we allow the pentagram /
> TA> >pentacle to be used in SCA heraldry, here is an excerpt from a file
> TA> >available at 1:114/166 as CSDM.ZIP:

> TA> [very good informational file deleted to save bandwidth]

> TA> Well, I suppose that's as good a reason as any, but how  many and how
> TA> much of our activites are we going to censor because of the prejudices
> TA> of mundanes?

Apparently, any that offend the delicate sensabilites of those who 
permanantly live in Mundania.

> How many sites are we going to have to lose access to, and now many drunk
> rednecks at events (and pinhead preachers on the evening news) are we
> going to have to cope with, before this perennial question will be
> accepted as having been sufficiently answered? I, for one, am tired of
> it....

>    Tadhg, Hanaper

> * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)

-=-=-
T. Archer  PA142548@utkvm1.utk.edu
University of Tennessee
"Vote Dempublican, it's easier than thinking." -- Unknown
-=-=-
From: Beth.Appleton@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Beth Appleton)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: twinkie names
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 19:59:14

 E> There are more, but these will do. Are these names 'twinkie' in their
 E> English translation but not in the original?
 E> evilted@vesta.unm.edu             . o        c ,
 E> bunderw@nyx.cs.du.edu              "#v--  --v#"
   Basically, yes.  Although, as has been said, "of placename" is fine. 
 Actual translations of actual names are ok.  If you've steeped yourself   in medieval literature to the extent that you can understand what their 
 naming practices were, then making one up is ok.  The biggest problem is    that for most of us, we've read much more fantasy and romance novels 
 than actual medieval stuff, so if we "just pick", we pick wrong.
   Plus, if you're sufficiently interested in a culture, why translate? 
 If you find a name you like, why not use it as you found it?
       Gwenllian Cwmystwyth ferch Morfudd

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
From: ewright@convex.com (Edward V. Wright)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Televangelists (was Re: Anti-SCA/wargaming attitudes)
Date: 28 Jul 92 20:06:00 GMT
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

Brynjolfr Myrkjartanarson writes:

>>>Well, there are the major fundamentalist churches (which generally have 
>>>bigger fish to fry anyway) and the Loonies for Christ, :-) who give them a 
>>>bad name, while picking old folk's pockets.

>>>We do have to remember that we ought try not to generalize about *anyone*.

>>Of course, you've just done a pretty good job of generalizing about 
>>the *minor* fundamentalist churches.

>Well, I think the Loonies for Christ reference was to televangelism, that
>rather odd form of Christianity which tends to bleed its worshippers dry,

So now we aren't generalizing about anyone at all, are we? :-)

-- Nicholas van Leyden
From: Tim.Isakson@mixcom.mixcom.com (Tim.Isakson)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Interested Mundane in Milwaukee, WI
Date: 26 Jul 92 00:18:20 GMT
Article-I.D.: mixcom.1992Jul26.001820.9758
Distribution: usa
Organization: Milwaukee Internet Xchange BBS, Milwaukee, WI U.S.A.

Hi,
	I've been following the conversation in this newsgroup for 
about two weeks, and my interest has been sufficiently piqued to request
more information.

Please e-mail responses about who to contact in the Milwuakee, WI area 
(Middle Kingdom, right?) about more information on SCA activities in
this area.

Thanks in advance,
	Tim Isakson

-- 
Tim.Isakson@mixcom.com
From: samlb@optilink.UUCP (Sam Bassett)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Basic Courtesy
Date: 30 Jul 92 05:19:17 GMT
Organization: Crusty old tooth-gnasher

In article <1992Jul29.182152.2685@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> carl@silver.lcs.mit.edu (Carl J.M. Alexander) writes:
>So again, please, can we not drop this thread?

	Yes, please -- DAMMIT!!

	This whole discussion haas gone beyond the limits of civillized
and courteous behavior -- it is beginning to sound like a bunch of 5th
graders having a slanging match in the schoolyard.

	Neither I nor the larger number of Rialtans, I believe, care to
hear any more of this -- could you please take it off-line and keep the
Dreck off the Bridge?

adTHANKSvance


-- 
Sam'l Bassett -- System Administrator 	      (among other silly things)
Work: DSC/Optilink, 1310-C Redwood Wy, Petaluma CA 94954; 1-707-792-7253
Internet: samlb@optilink.com 		      UUCP: uunet!optilink!samlb
From: mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman)
Subject: Re: Dancing at Pennsic
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 21:22:53 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

Greetings from Arval!  Discussing the difficulty of getting revelers to be
quiet for the dance teachers, Lothar wrote:

> I do get frustrated, as does any herald, or anyone, who is being
> persistantly ignored while trying to make an announcement. Afterall, I am
> trying to be useful! 

A thought to consider: If your audience thought you were trying to useful,
they would have listened.  This is a point then any organizer needs to
consider: If people aren't cooperating with the service you are trying to
provide them, maybe a lot of them don't want it.  With the very best
intentions, organizers often turn "We are in this place to provide a
service" into "This place is for us to provide this service."  Hence my
original suggestion to Justin: Offer the service to all, and then provide
to those who take up your offer without discomfiting the rest.

===========================================================================
Arval Benicoeur                                       mittle@watson.ibm.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: ewright@convex.com (Edward V. Wright)
Subject: Re: Interesting garb factoid: verification, anyone?
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 19:16:11 GMT
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
Keywords: underwear, morals
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

Aryk (A.J.S. Nusbacher) writes:

>Women's underwear in the 16th century consisted largely of a shift and petti-
>coats.  

Not to mention farthingales, bodies, and waistcoats.  Though you
peasants might not be aware of such things. :-) 

>Aryk Nusbacher
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mjc+@cs.cmu.edu (Monica Cellio)
Subject: Re: Dancing at Pennsic
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 17:30:35 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

>How about one of those *huge* pavillions Tibor mentioned -- 80 x 100 
>feet, as I recall.  Or maybe two of them, side by side.  That should 
>provide plenty of room for dancing, leaving the barn free for its 
>function as village square after dark.

It would be far, far better, though much more difficult, to encourage the
pavilion as social center and the barn as dance space.  Dancing outdoors
in poor light is an invitation for injuries, twisted ankles being the most
likely.  The only way you could dance safely in a pavilion is to install
a floor, and if you build a floor, you have to transport and store it.

Ellisif
From: 00rkspicher@bsu-ucs.uucp (Randall Spicher)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Rapier Combat
Date: 22 Jul 92 17:45:07 GMT

In article <BrsrMC.Gy4@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca>, aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (A.J.S. Nusbacher) writes:
> In article <1992Jul21.171615.14024@husc3.harvard.edu> feland@husc9.Harvard.EDU (Andrew Feland) writes:
> 
>>So, where does one get a good rapier around here, anyway?
>>Any ideas?
> 
> Rod Casteel
> Colonial Armory
> 106 Lynnbrook
> Eugene, OR
> USA 97404
> (503) 688-0607
> 

Look in any copy of TI and you will find 2 or 3 adds from fencing
equipment suppliers.  Usually Tripplette, American, and Colonial put ads
in.  Just Call their Toll free numbers and they will be more than happy to 
send you a catalogue.  

Cavalamar
Shire of Afonlyn
Middle Kingdom
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: boylan@sltg04.ljo.dec.com (Steve Boylan)
Subject: Re: oops.
Keywords: al11
Reply-To: boylan@sltg04.ljo.dec.com (Steve Boylan)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 19:35:58 GMT


Or, better yet . . .

In article <1992Jul24.234112.26867@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu>,
mdunbar@midway.ecn.uoknor.edu (Michael Dunbar) writes:

> er...try posting to alt.pagan for information on the morris dancing,
> not alt.wicca...it doesn't yet exist...sorry...;)
> 
> Mortiana
> a.k.a. julie levitt
> (using her fiance's account)



For direct and useful information on Morris dancing, rather than
alt.pagan or the (proposed but not yet started)_alt.wicca (or was
that alt.pagan.wicca?), try posting to rec.folk-dancing.  There are
lots of Morris dancers out there!

				- - Steve
From: Leonard.Erickson@f56.n105.z1.therose.pdx.com (Leonard Erickson)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Libel Suits
Date: 20 Jul 92 22:55:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: therose.711656255.F00001

In a message to All <07-20-92 19:49> Josh Mittleman wrote:

JM>  From: mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman)
JM>  Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
JM>
JM>  >  To the gentle who proposed sic-ing the Society's lawyer(s) on the
JM>  > Boise P.D. pinhead who libeled the Society:
JM>  >  While I agree with the sentiment, do you _really_ want to have
JM>  > the BoD allocate X _thousand_ dollars (where X likely >10) to pay a
JM>  > lawyer to go fishing in the Idaho courts?
JM>
JM>  Well, lawyers can accomplish a great deal without ever going into
JM>  court; most lawsuits are settled out of court, you know, and I suspect
JM>  most legal actions never even get that far.  But if it came down to it,
JM>  we created the corporation to protect our reputation.  This is a
JM>  serious, on-going, widespread attack on our reputation.  It has
JM>  resulted in legal harassment of individual members and frequent
JM>  difficulty obtaining sites.  Our lawyers may be able to eliminate part
JM>  of that problem.  If that isn't what we pay the corporation for, what
JM>  is?

True. Also, we won't have to go it alone. If we seriously look into it, we 
also need to contact the folks from the various Ren Faires. They are equally 
libelled *and* he is drawing a connection between us that doesn't exist!

One final comment. His line about burning witches bothers me. A *lot*. And 
I'm not of that religion! Alas, it's likely not actionable under any laws...
From: jtn@nutter.cs.vt.edu (Terry Nutter)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Security at Pennsic
Date: 31 Jul 92 15:36:56 GMT
Followup-To: rec.org.sca
Organization: SCA

Greetings, all.  A short posting from Angharad -- hope no one is harmed by
the shock!  :^)  Corum responds to Lothar's concerns about security at
Pennsic:

>> I feel that the problem of security (esp. against theft) at Pennsic has
>> largely been ignored.
>
>  Milord, I take personal exception to this comment. As one who has been on
>the inside looking out with respect to the running of security, I can tell
>you unequivocally that security has NOT been ignored at Pennsic. Excuse me
>if I flame here for a bit, but I get the impression that you have never
>volunteered to work a security shift at Pennsic.

Uh, Corum, my impression was that Lothar was worried about the _other_
thousands of people at Pennsic ignoring security, not the few who were
working it....

Communication is hard.

Best wishes to all,

Angharad/Terry
From: Stephen.Whitis@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Stephen Whitis)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Anonymous hate mail
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 02:53:00

>Hossein, I would like to appologize for this.  I didn't, of course,
>*send* the mail in question, but I'm sure that I am the cause of          
>it, for if you had not been defending me from those who call me           
>"discourteous" then you would not be receiving these attacks.             

Oooops.  Sorry, but after I had sent my packet, I realized that it
was not Hossein, but Angharad who wrote that post.  Which doesn't
keep me from feeling that she was attacked simply because she was
defending me.

Stephen of the Grove
Steppes/Ansteorra        FIDO 1:124/4229
Stephen.Whitis@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org
___
 X MegaMail 2.10 #0:CRUSADE CRUSADE CRUSADE!!!!

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: JRECHTSCHAFF@hamp.hampshire.EDU
Subject: Anyone need a ride to Pennsic
Organization: The Internet
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 23:26:00 GMT

Greetings to the Rialto,
 
  If anyone who lives in the Baltimore, Wash. DC needs a ride to Pennsic,
please contact me via E-Mail.

Lyanna
From: schuldy@progress.COM (Mark Schuldenfrei)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Dancing at Pennsic
Date: 23 Jul 92 15:51:41 GMT
Organization: Progress Software Corp.

Alexander of Kiev wrote:
  How about one of those *huge* pavillions Tibor mentioned -- 80 x 100 
  feet, as I recall.

Umm, I mentioned those on a mailing list that is different from the
Rialto.  (A business in New England that liquidates circus tents
each fall).  I wasn't seriously suggesting setting them up at
Pennsic.

Now that it has been mentioned, future autocrats may want to think
about creating more "public space" by renting a few of those at
future Pennsic's.  Or, not.  I'm not familiar with the details
of running Pennsic (and I thank all possible Gods for that!).

	Tibor
--
Mark Schuldenfrei (schuldy@progress.com)
From: mfactor@taronga.com (Marco Landin)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Televangelists
Summary: General comments on generalist commentary
Date: 30 Jul 92 19:31:05 GMT
Organization: Taronga Park BBS

> >>>>bigger fish to fry anyway) and the Loonies for Christ, :-) who give them a 
> >>>>bad name, while picking old folk's pockets.
> >
> >>>>We do have to remember that we ought try not to generalize about *anyone*.
> >
> >>>Of course, you've just done a pretty good job of generalizing about 
> >>>the *minor* fundamentalist churches.
> >
> >>Well, I think the Loonies for Christ reference was to televangelism, that
> >>rather odd form of Christianity which tends to bleed its worshippers dry,
> >
> >So now we aren't generalizing about anyone at all, are we? :-)
> 
> Well, *I* didn't agree to not generalize about people, I was simply
> correcting the previous poster as to what the poster before was
> generalizing about... :) I think when one generalizes, one should be very
> careful to make sure one is correct. I don't believe in never generalizing
	
	Oh this is sweet!  Look, mommy, they're going around in circles!  
					;)
	
	Actually, you can't make a general statement regarding generalizations,
BECAUSE NOT EVERY GENERALIZATION IS A FALSE STATEMENT.  At the risk of
sounding Politically Incorrect (feh) I believe that some generalizations
are correct.  Like the fact that ALL SCA members dress funny on occasion. 
(yes, I know:  DEFINE FUNNY)  Also, there's the one about all humans
breathing air.  It's true! I've seen it!
	
	One simply has to be careful that, when quoting the truth as they see it,
they don't accidentally spew a FALSE generalization.
	One of my best friends is a Born-Again Xtian.  We show up to Household
meetings, and I'm wearing my black shirt that says PAGAN in big white
block letters, and he's wearing his white shirt that says WARRIOR FOR
CHRIST in Conan letters with a crusader sword through it.  We even traded
off shirts one night!
	I can no longer generalize about Xtians, but I must agree that SOME Xtiam
authorities are abusive of their flock.  And I must agree that the
majority of Televangelists are there only to loot and pillage their poor
ignorant sheep.
	But like my Xtian friend Iskander sez, there are very few true christians
in the world, and a couple of Billion finks.
	
-- 
      |                   |
       \0__,___   ___,__@/
        +  '         `  =
       / )             ( \
From: wjones@diana.cair.du.edu (WILLIAM D. JONES)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Moderation (was Pentagrams)
Date: 28 Jul 92 20:22:18 GMT
Organization: University of Denver, Denver, Colorado




Unto the glorious inhabitants of the Knowne Worlde:
 
I have been remiss in responding to responses to my response,
please excuse my minor transgression..
I would like to thank alisa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com for her 
vibrant response to Sir Brian's comments.  I decided to 
take a walk to avoided any unnecessary discourtesy to said
knight.  I agree with Alisa's thoughts (though in general
proper verbiage is expected from well educated adults..
ehem.. Sir Knight.) and sypathize with Sir Brian's 
appearant mundane difficulties as a result of his 
affiliation with the Society.  However I would like to
point out that there is a greater thread to be considered
here.  I for one find it disgusting that Sir Brian would
find association with an individual of sexual orientatioon
that differed from his own difficult if that individual
choose to display his/her prefered standards.  I mut point out that
intolerance breeds intolerance..  I would hope that Sir Brian's
mundane expeience would help strengthen my arguement that we all need
to preform our daily rituals in a fashion that propagates the idea 
that we can all live in acceptance of one another.. If the goodly 
Knight were actually removed from his position because of his 
involvement in the Society perhaps it would behoove him, as well 
as all who have been discriminated against in all walks of life,
to make that removal a point of public discussion.  Rather then
hiding his head in the sand perhaps he should have stood up 
for what he believed.  If the business he was employed by did
eliminate his position because he did not agree with the 
managements political/religous position then he should take his
talents and skills to a competitor who is more open and practices
reasonable business.  It is exactly the turn tail response that 
Sir Brian relates that I find disturbing, it is precisely the type 
of discrimination Brian relates that I argue should not be 
condone nor tolerated.  ( How dare he refer to something he can 
have no common dogmatic relation to as "shit".)

               In Service,
                  Hadrian
                     Caerthe, The Outlands 

(p.s.  I'm not so certain of the validity of your post script, Alisa.) 
(p.p.s. I'm afraid I sent this post to someone. I don't know who.
       I still have trouble negotiating these tricky pathways.
          sorry :-9)
From: Godfrey de Shipbrook <jlee@smylex.UUCP>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Minstrel seeks words to song: Matty Groves
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 21:54:54 EDT
Organization: Shipbrook Software  (Tampa, FL)

Greetings from Godfrey!

A friend of mine would like me to sing the song `Matty Groves' for her at
Pennsic, and though I have heard it (and fortunately remember the tune)
I do not know the words.

Could any kind gentle who knows this song please e-mail the words to me?

Many many thanks in advance.
                                                        - Godfrey

+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Net:  Jeff Lee / jlee@smylex.uucp / jlee%smylex.uucp@tscs.tscs.com     |
| SCA:  Lord Godfrey de Shipbrook / Wyvernwood, Trimaris                 |
|       Per pale azure and argent, a clarion counterchanged or and gules |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
      "Of course!  Lager!  The only thing that can kill a vindaloo!"
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: bgarfink@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (beth diane garfinkel)
Subject: Re: Dance and Music
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 02:39:07 GMT


In article <y#ql8bd.dani@netcom.com> dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig) writes:

>And perhaps not even then.  The existence of a hundred period scores
>titled "pavane" doesn't imply the existence of a hundred different pavanes.
>Perhaps more to the point, it doesn't imply a willingness on the part
>of the dancers to include many pavanes in their active repertoire.
>Something similar can be said about "bransle".
>

Yes, but that doesn't mean that all pavanes are exactly alike, either.
For example, Pavanes from Arbeau's time onward are considered to be a
slow, processional type of dance, but those that date from earlier in
the century are often rather fast and vigorous, i.e. settings of tunes
like "Vegnando da Bologna."  Dances got slower over time.

In addition to the dance getting slower, just as music was decorated
with "divisions," so was dance.  Once could conceivably dance a generic
pavane and have it come out different every time by doing different
divisions.

							Beth
-- 
"Nobody worried about being mugged by a white-haired lady wearing white
gloves and a straw hat with a veil. (After Easter, Anyway)"
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman)
Subject: Surnames from "cheval"
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 20:06:17 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

Greetings from Arval!  Wolfrickwrote:

W> I believe that an appropriate translation of Pierre Cheval might be
W> "Horse Peter."

Appropriate in what language?  I was talking about translation into modern
English, to produce a name which would be interpretted by a modern listener
in a manner similar to the interpretation intended for a medieval listener.
In modern English we don't use prefix nicknames like "Horse Peter".  We do
use things like "Peter the Horse", and our literature uses things like
"Peter of the Horse".  We also might use something like "Horse Jones" for
"Peter Jones". 

Replying to Wolfrick and to myself, Hossein pointed out that "cheval" was a
common epithet for a knight in parts of France.  My example was chosen
simply to illustrate the point of translation; I could as easily have used
"Geoffroi Fer", the name of an iron merchant, or "Jean Poivre", the name of
a pepperer.  Dauzat, "Dictionnaire Etymologique des Noms de Famille et
Prenoms de France", gives many examples of merchant surnames in this form.
Under "Cheval", he lists three origins:

1) for a very strong man.
2) for a horse merchant.
3) for a man who rides a horse.

While my earlier statement may have been too broadly worded, it was
certainly not wrong; some horse merchants were known by the epithet
"cheval".  The third category probably includes instances like the ones you
cited, Hossein.  One must always consider that Dauzat lists modern surnames
and gives derivations for the ones that survived from the Middle Ages to
the present.  It is quite possible that some uses of a particular epithet
never gave rise to a hereditary surname, and therefore that Dauzat found no
reason to include them in his work.  It is also worth remembering that many
medieval epithets and surnames simply died out.

I know of very few good studies of medieval French surnames.  If anyone
else does, I would be interested in knowing of them.

===========================================================================
Arval Benicoeur                                       mittle@watson.ibm.com