HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: py1djf@sunlab1.bath.ac.uk (D J Ford)
Newsgroups: alt.games.mornington.cresent
Subject: Re: Reverse Mornington Crescent
Date: 28 Jan 93 02:30:22 GMT
Organization: School of Physics, University of Bath, UK

In the referenced article, gdb15@cl.cam.ac.uk writes:
>In article <1993Jan26.132907.6511@infodev.cam.ac.uk> crj10@phx.cam.ac.uk (Clive Jones) writes:
>
>This is a difficult one!  Windsor to Verney Junction is Wilson's
>Defence, which means that the previous move must have been on the

Im afraid i'm a little confused on this point, are you talking about 
Wilson Defence that was used in the MC World Championships in Helsinky,
1973, or the old Raj  champion, Brig. Gen. Massington-Thorpe, whose
famous defense (named after his batman) was used at Trinity College
Cambridge, against the Oxbridge champion JPH Henderson, MA, in a grudge
match in 1904 ?

>Piccadilly Line.  But then Great Portland Street to Hammersmith
>Broadway could only have happened if penalty 2B was in operation,
>so that rules out all stations east of Knightsbridge.  Anything
>west of Earl's Court would obviously make the game degenerate,
>so that leaves me very little leeway!  (I have a feeling we're
>near the start somehow...)
>
Yes, but degenerate effects of going( comming?) from west of
Earls Court depend greatly on wether the 2B penalty was applied
in the previous move( Windsor->Verney), due to a violation of the
'left of Harrods' rules, or if it came about due to the move 
Verney->GPS.
Though I do conceed that in either case, a degeneration ripple
effect is occured. But in one much greater than the other.

So, assuming that you are right.. The previous move would have to be...

Dave Ford	: The Embankment
Guy Barry	: Gloucester Road
Clive Jones	: Windsor
Guy Barry	: Verney Junction
Clive Jones	: Great Portland Street
Guy Barry	: Hammersmith Broadway
Clive Jones	: Archway
Guy Barry	: Charing Cross (Embankment)
Clive Jones	: Blake Hall
Graeme Hodgson	: Lancaster Gate 
John Farrell	: Downing Street 
Guy Barry	: Mornington Crescent 


-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  // /||\/| | /^, /| ||	Dave Ford        ||	Come and play at	
\X/ /-||  | | \_7/-| ||py1djf@sunlab1.bath.ac.uk||rec.games.mornington.cresent
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.games.mornington.cresent
From: rct@fulcrum.co.uk (Richard Taylor)
Subject: Re: A little question...
Organization: Fulcrum Communications
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 13:01:37 GMT

In article <1993Jan26.113747.5486@cc.ic.ac.uk> tim@shrimp.ph.ic (Tim Horbury) writes:
>I like to think of myself as a club-standard MC player at London and
>National level, but I must admit that the International games going on
>here are a bit above my head (I never can get the hang of the *Westward*
>intercontinental moves, and I always seem to get bogged down in South America). 
>I only discovered this newsgroup just before Christmas, so I'm still a bit 
>baffled about some of the conventions that are allowed here. Since I'd like to
>be sure I post legal moves, could I ask a question:
>
>Are we allowed to use calculators?

Hey! Come on, you know the rules say sliderules, only. 

(That is Edition 4, Section 4.3.2 Mechanical Aids, by the way. I don't
think they even mentioned mechanical aids in edition 3.)
Regards,
============================================================================
Richard Taylor                  DoD #981                 (rct@fulcrum.co.uk)
"I just need enough to tide me over until I need more."		- Bill Hoest
============================================================================
Fulcrum Communications Ltd., Fordrough Lane, Birmingham, B9 5LD, ENGLAND.
From: farrell@coral.cs.jcu.edu.au (John Farrell)
Newsgroups: alt.games.mornington.cresent
Subject: Re: EC Directive
Date: 27 Jan 93 00:20:09 GMT
Organization: James Cook University

In <C1F1wH.7wx@sunlab1.bath.ac.uk> py1djf@sunlab1.bath.ac.uk (D J Ford) writes:
>	PS, where exactly is this news group being distributed to?
>		Is it UK only?

  Well, I get most articles here in Australia.


John
Newsgroups: alt.games.mornington.cresent
From: farrell@coral.cs.jcu.edu.au (John Farrell)
Subject: Re: Reverse Mornington Crescent
Organization: James Cook University
Date: 25 Jan 93 04:18:24 GMT

In <1993Jan23.121532.2113@infodev.cam.ac.uk> gdb15@cl.cam.ac.uk (Guy Barry) writes:
>>I do, for one. Nobody outside Cambridge seems to feel at all
>>comfortable with this variant yet, however. )-8

  Uncomfortable, goodness gracious me. I've been unable to eat lunch for 3
days I've been so amazed.

>No -- indeed some people still seem to be interpreting it as a forward
>game.  Maybe it would help if we wrote the moves from bottom to top:

  I think this will confuse people. I've invented some notation which I think
embodies the true spirit of this game, and added my move.

kraP mahneteewS :    llerraF nhoJ
yawdaorB htimsremmaH :       yrraB yuG
yawhcrA :     senoJ evilC
)tnemknabmE( ssorC gnirahC :       yrraB yuG
llaH ekalB :     senoJ evilC
etaG retsacnaL :  nosgdoH emearG
teertS gninwoD :    llerraF nhoJ
tnecserC notgninroM :       yrraB yuG


John
From: gdb15@grebe.cl.cam.ac.uk (Guy Barry)
Newsgroups: alt.games.mornington.cresent
Subject: Re: Reverse Mornington Crescent
Date: 28 Jan 93 11:56:26 GMT
Reply-To: gdb15@cl.cam.ac.uk
Organization: U of Cambridge Computer Lab, UK

In article <C1JLMM.588@sunlab1.bath.ac.uk> py1djf@sunlab1.bath.ac.uk (D J Ford) writes:
>In the referenced article, gdb15@cl.cam.ac.uk writes:
>>In article <1993Jan26.132907.6511@infodev.cam.ac.uk> crj10@phx.cam.ac.uk (Clive Jones) writes:
>>
>>This is a difficult one!  Windsor to Verney Junction is Wilson's
>>Defence, which means that the previous move must have been on the
>
>Im afraid i'm a little confused on this point, are you talking about 
>Wilson Defence that was used in the MC World Championships in Helsinky,
>1973, or the old Raj  champion, Brig. Gen. Massington-Thorpe, whose
>famous defense (named after his batman) was used at Trinity College
>Cambridge, against the Oxbridge champion JPH Henderson, MA, in a grudge
>match in 1904 ?

I've never heard of the 1904 one!  My definition of Wilson's Defence
is "any northward move employing the triangle rule that's not
constrained by lateral blocking" (in this case the final condition
is of course redundant).

>>Piccadilly Line.  But then Great Portland Street to Hammersmith
>>Broadway could only have happened if penalty 2B was in operation,
>>so that rules out all stations east of Knightsbridge.  Anything
>>west of Earl's Court would obviously make the game degenerate,
>>so that leaves me very little leeway!  (I have a feeling we're
>>near the start somehow...)
>>
>Yes, but degenerate effects of going( comming?) from west of
>Earls Court depend greatly on wether the 2B penalty was applied
>in the previous move( Windsor->Verney), due to a violation of the
>'left of Harrods' rules, or if it came about due to the move 
>Verney->GPS.

I think you've misunderstood: a "degenerate game" in reverse MC is one
that reaches a position that could not have been arrived at in the
forward game.  Let's say I'd played Barons Court, for instance.
There's no way of moving from Barons Court to Windsor, because the
previous move would have had to be both left-handed, to license Barons
Court itself, and right-handed, to license the subsequent play of
Windsor (an instance of neutralization).

>So, assuming that you are right.. The previous move would have to be...
>
>Dave Ford	: The Embankment
>Guy Barry	: Gloucester Road
>Clive Jones	: Windsor
>Guy Barry	: Verney Junction
>Clive Jones	: Great Portland Street
>Guy Barry	: Hammersmith Broadway
>Clive Jones	: Archway
>Guy Barry	: Charing Cross (Embankment)
>Clive Jones	: Blake Hall
>Graeme Hodgson	: Lancaster Gate 
>John Farrell	: Downing Street 
>Guy Barry	: Mornington Crescent 

There's no road called "The Embankment" -- can I assume you mean
Victoria Embankment?
--
Guy Barry, University of Cambridge | Phone: +44 (0)223 334757 
Computer Laboratory                | Fax: +44 (0)223 334678
New Museums Site, Pembroke Street  | JANET: Guy.Barry@uk.ac.cam.cl 
Cambridge CB2 3QG, England, UK     | Internet: Guy.Barry@cl.cam.ac.uk 
Newsgroups: alt.games.mornington.cresent
From: thompsmr@uhura.aston.ac.uk (Mark Thompson)
Subject: Re: A little question...
Organization: Aston University
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL241235]
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 12:09:18 GMT

Tim Horbury (tim@shrimp.ph.ic) wrote:
: 
: Are we allowed to use calculators?
: 
: Many thanks
: 
: Tim Horbury
: 

	Yes, as long as they don't have to be plugged into the mains, and
aren't capable of numerical integration, which would, of course give you an
unfair advantage when other players started using the Waterloo Shunting
Protocol.

	Oh, that's the Smith-Van Wyk convention as approved by the Federation
International de Rue de Martin at their Autumn 1983 conference in Pitsburg,
which is the most widely accepted ruling these days. There are, naturally,
other interpretations.
 
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|   Mark Thompson, Aston Uni, Dept. Elec. Eng   ThompsonMR@uk.ac.aston.spock  |
| "PC Owner?",'Yes',"Good. Out of the door, line on the left, one cross each."|
-------------------Disclaimer: It was like that when I got here----------------

Newsgroups: alt.games.mornington.cresent
From: farrell@coral.cs.jcu.edu.au (John Farrell)
Subject: Re: New year, new game
Organization: James Cook University
Date: 25 Jan 93 04:13:56 GMT

In <8237@skye.ed.ac.uk> ken@aiai.ed.ac.uk (Ken Johnson) writes:
>In article <farrell.727486391@coral> farrell@coral.cs.jcu.edu.au (John
>Farrell) writes:

>#  John Farrell:	Downing Street

>You're a complete idiot, John.
>Ken Johnson:   *** MORNINGTON CRESCENT ***
>Heh! Stevenage Doubling applies so you have to buy the beer.

  A gentleman wouldn't have played that move :-(. I will buy you a beer on
Friday, if you can make it to the Staff Club at James Cook University in
Townsville, AUSTRALIA. See you there.

John
From: alla0008@student.tc.umn.edu (Graham Allan)
Newsgroups: alt.games.mornington.cresent
Subject: Re: Reverse Mornington Crescent
Date: 27 Jan 93 15:52:37 GMT
Organization: University of Minnesota

In article <8266@skye.ed.ac.uk> ken@aiai.ed.ac.uk (Ken Johnson) writes:
>
>In article <1993Jan24.213403.6255@infodev.cam.ac.uk> crj10@phx.cam.ac.uk
>(Clive Jones) writes:
>
>#  I know of no previous instances of a reversed multi-player game. 
>
>A reversed multi-player game took place between the officers of the
>Second Infantry Batallion and those of the Spitzenbangbang Alleskrushing
>Tankensoldaten in the no-mans'-land between the trenches at Ypres on
>Christmas Day, 1917. 
>
>At about 9.30 a.m.  one of the German officers raised a white shirt tied
>to a rifle and called across the minefield ``Hey Johnny, wanna play
>football?'' The British officers called back ``No, Fritz, but we'll beat
>you at Mornington Crescent!''
>
>The reply ``OK, we play you at the Reversed Version.  Heil Hitler!''
>caused astonishment.
[...]

The "Heil Hitler" certainly must have caused astonishment, in 1917!

chronologically,
Graham
From: u2nmh@csc.liv.ac.uk (N.M. Humphries)
Newsgroups: alt.games.mornington.cresent
Subject: Re: New year, new game
Date: 22 Jan 93 14:13:49 GMT
Organization: Computer Science, Liverpool University
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]

G.P. Sereno (u2gps@csc.liv.ac.uk) wrote:
> >John Farrell : Downing Street
> >Graeme Hodgson : Lancaster Gate

> Hmmmm. A Central Return Ticket Play if I'm not mistaken.  To counter this, I'm going to have to go with the bear essentials in moves. Thus :-
>                   PADDINGTON

> Gary Sereno

--Groan!

  Paddingon's a bit awkward at this point in the game. I'll have to risk a 
trip to...

	Nick Humphries : Baker Street.

  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     The Cursor, aka Nick Humphries, u2nmh@csc.liv.ac.uk, at your service.
  "People have started taking shotguns to UFO sightings. Kinda brings a whole
  new meaning to the phrase 'You ain't from 'round here, are ya?'"-Bill Hicks
  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.games.mornington.cresent
From: gdb15@grebe.cl.cam.ac.uk (Guy Barry)
Subject: Re: New year, new game
Reply-To: gdb15@cl.cam.ac.uk
Organization: U of Cambridge Computer Lab, UK
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 18:30:34 GMT

In article <8237@skye.ed.ac.uk> ken@aiai.ed.ac.uk (Ken Johnson) writes:
>
>In article <farrell.727486391@coral> farrell@coral.cs.jcu.edu.au (John
>Farrell) writes:
>
>
>#  John Farrell:	Downing Street
>
>You're a complete idiot, John.
>
>Ken Johnson:   *** MORNINGTON CRESCENT ***
>
>Heh! Stevenage Doubling applies so you have to buy the beer.

Well done there Ken, playing the game forwards.  Unfortunately the
rest of us are playing it backwards...

--
Guy Barry, University of Cambridge | Phone: +44 (0)223 334757 
Computer Laboratory                | Fax: +44 (0)223 334678
New Museums Site, Pembroke Street  | JANET: Guy.Barry@uk.ac.cam.cl 
Cambridge CB2 3QG, England, UK     | Internet: Guy.Barry@cl.cam.ac.uk 
Newsgroups: alt.games.mornington.cresent
From: graeme@fulcrum.co.uk (Graeme Hodgson)
Subject: Re: Tangled threads
Organization: Fulcrum Communications
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 09:27:03 GMT

Getting loster all the time...

--
Hodj                                                              ~ ~
Email to graeme@fulcrum.co.uk     | "Well I still prefer woble    O O
 - whenever the mood takes you.   | and eenk" - Dave Budd          *
  The opinions expressed above are all my own work, honest.       \_/
From: farrell@coral.cs.jcu.edu.au (John Farrell)
Newsgroups: alt.games.mornington.cresent
Subject: Re: Lost
Date: 27 Jan 93 00:28:07 GMT
Organization: James Cook University

In <C1Exw3.4pq@fulcrum.co.uk> graeme@fulcrum.co.uk (Graeme Hodgson) writes:
>Now wandering the line somewhere between Paddington and Great Portland
>Street, pick me up if you see me.

  OK, then:

John Farrell:	London Bridge (in a cab, with Graeme Hodgson)


John
From: uv94002@black.ox.ac.uk (Matt Millar)
Newsgroups: alt.games.mornington.cresent
Subject: Re: A little question...
Date: 27 Jan 93 18:17:03 GMT
Organization: Oxford University Computing Service, 13 Banbury Rd, Oxford, U
Originator: uv94002@black

In article <casio.3@uk.ac.uea.sys> casio@uk.ac.uea.sys writes:
>Tim Horbury writes:
>
>>Are we allowed to use calculators?
>
>I think Reverse Polish calculators are permitted at some levels but there are
>restrictions on how many batteries you are allowed to put in.
>
And of course which way round the batteries should be.
-- 
/\/\att	
uv94002@black.ox.ac.uk

#include "silly.ascii.graphics"
Newsgroups: alt.games.mornington.cresent
From: crj10@phx.cam.ac.uk (Clive Jones)
Subject: Re: Reverse Mornington Crescent
Telephone-Messages: +44 223 33 4900
Address: Christ's College, Cambridge CB2 3BU, ENGLAND.
Organization: U of Cambridge, England
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 04:20:48 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.113055.7004@infodev.cam.ac.uk> gdb15@cl.cam.ac.uk writes:
>In article <1993Jan21.233622.7379@infodev.cam.ac.uk> crj10@phx.cam.ac.uk (Clive Jones) writes:
>>Yes - reverse Mornington Crescent exists. *Please* bear in mind,
>>however, that Mornington Crescent is often a valid opening in the
>>normal game, though it is seldom a winning move. 
>
>Your definition of "normal" must be rather different from mine!

Er... only in terms of rules. In terms of gameplay, some quite horrid
things tend to need to have happened around Woodford and/or Euston
before such plays are possible - serious tournament players rarely play
that badly.

>The most interesting thing to do is to start off playing minimal
>and then proceed to maximal, so you get two games for the
>price of one.  Does everyone agree to this?

I do, for one. Nobody outside Cambridge seems to feel at all
comfortable with this variant yet, however. )-8

Guy Barry	: Mornington Crescent (the last move)
John Farrell	: Downing Street (the penultimate move)
Graeme Hodgson	: Lancaster Gate (the antepenultimate move)
Clive Jones	: Blake Hall
Guy Barry	: Charing Cross (Embankment)

Clive Jones	: Archway

--Clive.
Newsgroups: alt.games.mornington.cresent
From: crj10@phx.cam.ac.uk (Clive Jones)
Subject: Re: Reverse Mornington Crescent
Telephone-Messages: +44 223 33 4900
Address: Christ's College, Cambridge CB2 3BU, ENGLAND.
Organization: U of Cambridge, England
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 12:14:13 GMT

In article <1993Jan26.094541@axion.bt.co.uk> gramsden@axion.bt.co.uk (Graham Ramsden) writes:
>
>In article <1993Jan24.213403.6255@infodev.cam.ac.uk>, crj10@phx.cam.ac.uk (Clive Jones) writes:
>|> Careful here! By the 1977 degeneracy rules, any player who renders a
>|> reverse game degenerate loses. This is hard to interpret in a
>|> multi-player game, of course - the intent was that the other player
>
>Are you suggesting that it would be easier to interpret in a single player game?
>Playing with yourself may be regarded as normal practice even if it does get
>messy at the end but playing with yourself backwards is sure to
>invoke the degeneracy rules....

I meant "multi-player" as opposed to "two-player".

Solitaire MC is a completely different kettle of fish, and I am not so
sure it even *could* be played in reverse very easily.

--Clive.
From: casio@uk.ac.uea.sys
Newsgroups: alt.games.mornington.cresent
Subject: Re: A little question...
Date: 27 Jan 93 12:29:56 GMT
Organization: School of Information Systems

Tim Horbury writes:

>Are we allowed to use calculators?

>Many thanks

>Tim Horbury

I think Reverse Polish calculators are permitted at some levels but there are
restrictions on how many batteries you are allowed to put in.

Peter Roberts
SYS UEA Norwich   email: pr@uk.ac.uea.sys
Newsgroups: alt.games.frp.live-action
From: Arvid <arvidg@ifi.uio.no>
Subject: FAQ-list, anyone?
Summary: Would't it be nice to have a compiled list of frequently (and even
        not-so-frequently) asked questions for this newsgroup?
Organisation: Ravn simulations
Organization: Dept. of Informatics, University of Oslo, Norway
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 00:44:06 GMT
Originator: arvidg@holmenkollen.ifi.uio.no

Hi, all!

I've forllowed this group for some time now (all the time, I think),
and I've got a few questions (basic ones, perhaps) that I guess I could
need some answers to.

Questions like:

- How do I get in touch with:

  - SIL?
  - IFGS?
  - SCA?

- What are the (major) differences between the above?

You see, I've got a problem. I live in Norway, in northern Europe. We
have a LARP organisation here called Ravn, so we Norwegians get to
play all right. But when some Ravn member sends a letter to Ravn, from
the U.S., complaining that he doesn't get to join our next couple of
games because he's in the States for a year, I think to myself:
"Perhaps I should answer that letter, and tell him there are
opportunities to play LARP games outside of Norway as well?"

I guess what I'd like to send him is some descriptions of, and some
kind of adresses to, LARP organisations in the U.S. And then I think
to myself again: "Isn't this FAQ stuff?"

My guess is it is. I've seen enough postings of the kind "Is there a
LARP group somewhere near <your favorite town/univerity here>?" to
justify some kind of a "For info on the FOO email foo@bar or call
555-1234 or write to ..." posting, or better yet, a list.

Such a list would of course take some time to compile, and other
questions should of course be included, starting with the natural one:

	"What is live-action role-playing?"

(OK, I know (some part of) the answer to that. Still: Do tell me.)

Now, would somebody please step forward and volunteer to the noble
task of putting together such a list?

And, anyone: What questions do you want to see answered? What kind of
info would you want? 

The Quest for the holy FAQ begins here... :-)



						Arvid
						<arvidg@ifi.uio.no>



P.S.: For info on LARP in Southern Norway, email me. Or better yet:
Stay patient. More info on Ravn follows in my next article.
Newsgroups: alt.games.frp.live-action
From: bole@hmivax.humgen.upenn.edu (Greg Bole)
Newsgroups: alt.games.frp.live-action
Subject: Stories (was Re: new LARP group in Tucson)
Date: 21 Jan 93 21:05:57 GMT
Followup-To: mohney@caslon.cs.arizona.edu
Distribution: usa
Organization: HHMI/Human Genetics, Univ of Pa.

In article <30195@optima.cs.arizona.edu>, mohney@cs.arizona.edu 
(Christopher W Mohney) writes:

> A group I play with recently started experimenting in live action gaming.
> To date we have only run two life action games, both of which were of
> Vampire: the Masquerade.  The first was a murder-mystery set in Chicago
  ^^^^^^^                                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Am I missing something here?  :^)

I'd also like to take this opportunity to ask for anyone out there that
has participated in any LARP to step right up and tell a story!

I think it would really spruce up this group, be very entertaining,
show people that have never palyed them what it's like, and give new
ideas and inspire people that have played them.

So, who has a story to share?  Short, long, any type...

Greg Bole                          "I always wanted to be an orphan.  I could 
bole@hmivax.humgen.upenn.edu          have, if it wasn't for my parents."
                                         Gary Oldman in _Prick Up Your Ears_
Newsgroups: alt.games.frp.live-action
From: taylorje@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (TAYLOR JASON EDMOND)
Subject: Re: Looking for info/recommendations
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 08:23:45 GMT

   I agree with you on at least one point...we're not going to agree.

   I specifically avoided the Walt Frietag issue because this was a
_discussion_, not a revelation of personal problems with members of an
organization. Truth is, I don't know much about the Frietag business.
And I don't really care. I know that _I've_ never had a enough of a problem
with anyone in the IFGS to quit the organization entirely, and God knows
I haven't exactly "fallen in line" with mainstream opinion. If you want to
make some grand revelation, fine. It is unfortunate that such a negative
posting will probably not do justice to the thousands of people who
HAVEN'T quit IFGS.

   What angered me so much is, all throughout every posting you make little
comments alluding to how much SIL is better than IFGS, without ever coming
out and saying, "SIL is better than IFGS." I don't mind if you want to give
your group a positive image. But DON'T DO IT AT THE EXPENSE OF MINE. You
have the right to say what you want. But at least show a little courtesy.

   IFGS is a great organization, period. If I'm obviously biased in my
opinion (which, unlike other SIL suppoters here, I am willing to admit).
If someone in this newsgroup wants an honest opinion, ask someone like
the gent back a few postings who said he did both and offered an honest
critique of both systems.

   BTW, IFGS characters DON'T have an "intellegence" score. :)

   'nuff said.

*---------------------------------------------------------------------*
* Jason Taylor -- University of Colorado at Boulder                   *
* taylorje@rintintin.colorado.edu / taylorje@kinglear.cs.colorado.edu *
*---------------------------------------------------------------------*

Newsgroups: alt.games.frp.live-action