HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: atkinson@itd.nrl.navy.mil (Randall Atkinson)
Newsgroups: comp.fonts,comp.protocols.iso,comp.os.os2.programmer,comp.os.ms-windows.programmer.misc,comp.os.misc,sci.lang
Subject: Re: Character Sets (AGAIN)
Date: 2 Oct 92 20:28:50 GMT
Organization: Naval Research Laboratory, DC

In article <keld.718048707@login.dkuug.dk> keld@login.dkuug.dk (Keld J|rn Simonsen) writes:


>Well, maybe they were scheduled for standards track at some instance,
>I have not paid that much attendance whether it would be an Internet
>standard or not. The RFC status was what I was after.

  The above is a complete and total and blatant lie and the record
clearly demonstrates that this is a lie.  Keld worked long and hard to
try to politically manuver his RFC (then an I-D) into the standards
track.  Ask ANYONE on the IESG.

>There have not been any official IETF communication stating
>that RFC 1345 was not qualified work, and the WG endorsed that the
>spec should be published as an RFC. You can check the minutes of
>the 822ext IETF group for that fact. Even Randall once wrote that
>there was technical merit in the work, and that it should be published
>as an RFC.

  There is no qualification of any kind to publishing an informational
RFC.  Anyone can do it at any time.  Many of them are humourous and
not at all with technical intent.  RFCs are simply documents and
generally do not specify any kind of standard.  The WG said in fact
that it objected to Keld's RFC being on the standards track as it was
not standards material.  The WG did NOT endorse the content of Keld's
document.  Keld is lying through his teeth and trying to distort the
facts, but the truth of my statements is all documented in the online
archives.

  I personally NEVER endorsed the content of Keld's work.  If Keld
claims ever again that I did so and I can prove that he in fact said
such, Keld should not be surprised to have legal action taken against
him for slander.

>My principle in responding has been to correct technical
>misrepresentations, and to point out the worst examples of 
>bad discussion behaviour.

The above is a good laugh and hardly the case as anyone can see.
From: v065hjku@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Jason Osborne)
Newsgroups: comp.fonts
Subject: ATM and Type 1--> the same?
Date: 1 Oct 92 20:28:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

My memory is a bit foggy- is ATM and Type 1 font the same thing, or
is ATM ATM, type 1 type 1, and so on.  I know type 3 is Tex, or 
something like that...
______________________________________________________________________________
Jason Osborne | Disclaimer: Who'd listen to me anyway?
______________________________________________________________________________
For information on the Underground Phont Archive, drop me a note via email
______________________________________________________________________________
Newsgroups: comp.fonts
From: weigand@pecan.cns.udel.edu (Steve Weigand)
Subject: Re: Looking for Chinese fonts (or system) for Macintosh
Organization: University of Delaware, Newark
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 21:55:13 GMT

In article <5OCT199218510370@jane.uh.edu> cive1em@jane.uh.edu (Chuang, Lu-chia) writes:
>Hello, I am looking for Chinese fonts for Mac.
>Any information is welcome. Thanks in advance.
>
>-Luke

Me too! I don't care if they're in any particular standard form. PostScript
would be nice. Don't care if they're for any particular machine. IBM/MAC/NeXT/
etc.

Chinese and Japanese fonts wanted.

Doubt there are any public domain ones, but I do know of some packages that
are commercial.

Ciao, 
 - Steve Weigand
 (weigand@ee.udel.edu)
From: dhosek@linus.claremont.edu
Newsgroups: comp.fonts
Subject: MS's TrueType font package Re: Mathematical font
Date: 3 Oct 92 06:37:38 GMT
Organization: Harvey Mudd College

In article <5919@dove.nist.gov>, gilligan@bldrdoc.gov (Jonathan M. Gilligan) writes:
> It also has fonts that are similar to the standard
> Postscript fonts, such as Palatino (here called Bookman Antiqua
 
> PUSH
> FLAME
 
> Hey, if everyone's going to flame on about the ethics of GNU
> hypothetically cloning Palatino and not giving adequate credit (and
> dollars) to Zapf, how about denouncing Monotype for doing the same
> thing here?! Or is this different because this is professional type
> designers at Monotype are ripping Zapf off for a profit, not loathsome
> ``hackers'' doing it for free? 8-)

I assume you're really referring to either Bookman Old Style or
Book Antiqua (far more likely the latter since the former looks
nothing like Palatino). And yes, I disapprove of whoever's doing
it, not just GNU. (As an aside, early opposition to typeface
copyright came from US type manufacturers who were busy ripping
off European designers; when they became the victims, they
changed their position. Also worth pointing out is that my
preference in typeface protection is stricter than even ATypI's.
 
> ), New Century Schoolbook, and Bookman.  

Fine Print in October of '81 had an interesting article on the
history of the Century family. The use of the name "Century
Schoolbook" in both names implies to me that both are licensed
from ATF.

Bookman OldStyle is a different (albeit related) font from the
Bookman which appears in your LaserWriter. I'd put them at the
same degree of affinity as Century OldStyle and Century
Schoolbook.

> It has more fonts and costs a
> small fraction of what the Y&Y's type-1 Lucida-Bright/Lucida-New-Math
> fonts package costs.

And the print quality from what Microsoft rushed to market is
lousy from what I've seen. Whether to blame Monotype or Microsoft
for that is difficult to say. Come on, you shouldn't have pimples
on 12pt type at 300dpi. It may have been because of the handling
of TT on a PS device, but even so... personally, I'm not likely
to bother with TT seeing that kind of dismal performance.

-dh

Don Hosek                  
dhosek@ymir.claremont.edu  
Quixote Digital Typography 
714-621-1291
Newsgroups: comp.fonts
Subject: Chinese Fonts
From: wong5226@mtroyal.ab.ca
Date: 25 Sep 92 14:12:12 MDT
Organization: Mount Royal College, Calgary, Alberta

Does anybody know where I can find Chinese fonts for a IBM compatable.  For any 
word processor.
Newsgroups: comp.fonts
From: schles@whatever.cs.jhu.edu (Philipe Suave)
Subject: Printing PS
Organization: Johns Hopkins Computer Science Department, Baltimore, MD
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 05:47:49 GMT

I'm having problems.  I set up Windows 3.1 and Word for Windows 2.0a to
print using the latest postscript printer driver (from ftp.cica.indiana.edu)
to a postscript file.  This postscript file I download onto my school network
drive and print it to a postscript compatible printer (Talaris).  This was
fine until the printer decided to die and so I've been going crazy trying to 
print my papers.  I've printed on two other supposed postscript printers (one
of which I have actually seen, and it's a HP IIID with a postscript cartridge,
so the problem of the computer people giving me incorrect info is ruled out) 
and all I've gotten is ascii code for postscript - not my fonts.  I've typed 
"file" on the server and it says that the file I downloaded is postscript.

So here are my questions:

1) should I set in the print setup options (I already have the driver connected
to FILE: as a port) to print to "Printer" or "Encapsulated PostScript File"?
(I've had it set for "Encapsulated...")

2) in advanced print setup options, in the truetype section, why do I see only
choices for "Adobe Type 1" and "Bitmap (Type 3)", and not "Native Truetype" as
the help file suggests I should select, and since I don't see the third 
selection, which should I select?

3) should I download the file as binary or ascii (I think it should be ascii)?

4) is there a "Postscript for Dummies" file on the net?  I NEED IT :)

Thanks - Phil
-- 
Philip Schlesinger                         schles@cs.jhu.edu
------------------------------------------------------------
"How'd you get that Cray II to run slower than my old C-64?"
"Oh, that took a bit of doing.  Take a look at /bin/session"
Xref: sparky comp.fonts:2883 comp.protocols.iso:1196 comp.os.os2.programmer:5297 comp.os.ms-windows.programmer.misc:2196 comp.os.misc:826 sci.lang:7393
From: mathew@mantis.co.uk (mathew)
Newsgroups: comp.fonts,gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: My stand on the Gnu font project (no followups, please)
Date: 23 Sep 92 12:36:59 GMT
Organization: Mantis Consultants, Cambridge. UK.

If you print a document in Times Gnu Roman, do you have to give everybody
permission to photocopy it?


mathew
-- 
"I refuse to be President of a country called Czesko." -- Vaclav Havel
Newsgroups: comp.fonts
From: taihou@chromium.iss.nus.sg (Tng Tai Hou)
Subject: Greek and Turkish fonts for Mac?
Originator: taihou@chromium
Organization: Institute of Systems Science, NUS, Singapore
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 08:46:49 GMT

Hi. I badly need certain greek and turkish fonts which have their
particular characters. I have looked at the greek and turkish versions
of System 7 for Mac but can't find them.

Can someone please help me?

Thanks in advanced.

Tai Hou
Singapore

Newsgroups: comp.fonts
From: janus@staff.tc.umn.edu ()
Subject: Foreign characters on DESK JET (Q)
Summary: Want eths thorns etc on desk jet printer, for MAC
Keywords: DESK JET, ICELANDIC
Organization: University of Minnesota
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 13:34:16 GMT

I have managed to print Icelandic characters on my HP LaserJet IIIp
Postscript, using a Macintosh II ci.  I changed a postscript 
definition in the LaserJet reencoding vector in POST -8179.  

A colleague wonders if she can find the same Icelandic characters
somewhere in her DeskJet font set, and get the characters
printed with the same high quality as the rest of the set.
She doesn't know anything about ResEdit, but I could talk her
through any changes using ResEdit.  Main question I guess
is: Does the Desk Jet have unused characters like the PostScript
fonts?

Thanks for any help.

Louis Janus
sometimes part of The Scandinavian Dept, Univ of Minn

Newsgroups: comp.fonts
From: dmandl@shearson.com (David Mandl)
Subject: Re: Including fonts into a Postscript file
Reply-To: dmandl@shearson.com
Organization: Lehman Brothers, Inc.
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 15:40:49 GMT

In article 2079@sdrc.COM, spsisira@sdrc.sdrc.com () writes:
>  I am trying to print a postscript file that requires fonts not
>installed on the printer. Therefore, print job aborts. But I can
>get the unavialable fonts from another source in a postscript file.
>Like by printing the entire characterset.   
>
>  Is there a way to include the unavailable fonts in to the postscript
>file manually and successfully print the documant?
>

If you're using Windows, just use "temporary" as opposed to
"permanent" downloading.  In other words, include the .pfb
file names in your win.ini along with your .pfm names.  If the
.pfb's aren't in there, the software (say, PageMaker) will assume
that the fonts are resident in the printer and will not send
the actual font information.  If the .pfb's are in there, it
will assume they aren't resident in the printer, and will
download the fonts on the fly. If you're printing to file, this
means the font information will be included in your output file.
Then you can print the thing anywhere.  Simple.  If you need
more details, email me.

   --Dave.

---
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
         Dave Mandl            |    Opinions expressed here
       New York City           | are not those of my employer,
   (dmandl@shearson.com)       |          believe me.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Xref: sparky comp.fonts:2943 news.answers:3267
From: hho@phakt.usc.edu ("** N.T.K.C.D. ***")
Subject: Format of Truetype and Type 1 needed.
Newsgroups: comp.fonts
Date: 5 Oct 92 17:06:32 GMT


We have a bunch of Vietnamese fonts in Type 1, mapped according to VNU
format, we want to conver to truetype and remap to VISCII format..

THe job is to remap the upper characters >127 and convert from Type 1->
truetype..

We have fontmonger and alltype, so the conversion is OK, but the remapping..
Is there any software, routine for fast remaping the characters?

Else, please show me where to get TYpe1 and TT spec so we can write
our own program :-))
Thanks
H.
Newsgroups: comp.fonts,comp.protocols.iso,comp.os.os2.programmer,comp.os.ms-windows.programmer.misc,comp.os.misc,sci.lang
From: Erik Naggum <enag@ifi.uio.no>
Organization: Department of Informatics, University of Oslo, Norway
Date: 02 Oct 1992 00:04:11 +0100
Subject: Re: Character Sets (AGAIN)

Those of us who were there know, and anyone who wish to look it up in
the working group archives will find, that Randall's comments are
correct, and to the point.  We who witnessed Keld in action, have become
accustomed to the sort of follow-up he made to Randall's article.  I
admire Randall for his willingness to again subject himself to the
effort of restraining himself from letting this degenerate to the level
that we all witnessed on the IETF 822 and SMTP WG mailing lists for
weeks, even months.

I'd just like to say that the archives are there to tell the story in
all its details.  The political maneuvering conducted by Keld Simonsen
has been a topic in itself, and is a well established fact by anyone who
has taken part in committees in which he also takes part.  I've had the
misfortune of being in or related to several such committees.  The
pattern is clear: No progress is made until Keld has been silenced,
either by shutting him up for good, or agreeing to his suggestions.  The
latter has never, neither in my experience nor in the evidence from
minutes that I have checked, been evidence of enthusiasm with the ideas
or solutions, but rather a long drawn-out process in which opponents
give up in disgust.

There is some merit to most of Keld's work, but it all but drowns in the
political lobbying in which he engages to push it forward to acceptance.

    The character set descriptions were never scheduled for Internet
    standards track ...

True, but the implication that you didn't even try is an outright lie.

    The mnemonic encoding was a new way of coding things, but it was
    rejected because of timing and coordination problems, not because
    of lack of merit (to my knowledge!)

Your selective memory doesn't alter the facts.

    Many people were very positive towards the mechanisms and character
    set descriptions in RFC 1345 on the IETF mailing list on enhancing
    Internet mail with more character set support.

It would be fair to state that an enormous number of people was negative
to the whole thing from day 1, and they became more numerous.  It's just
that it's so boring to fight against a die-hard loser which comes back
to life just when you thought it had finally died and gone back to its
maker.

I have nothing further, your Honor.

Best regards,
</Erik>
--
Erik Naggum             |  ISO  8879 SGML     |      +47 295 0313
                        |  ISO 10744 HyTime   |
<erik@naggum.no>        |  ISO 10646 UCS      |      Memento, terrigena.
<enag@ifi.uio.no>       |  ISO  9899 C        |      Memento, vita brevis.
Newsgroups: comp.fonts
From: mib@geech.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Michael I Bushnell)
Subject: Re: My stand on the Gnu font project (no followups, please)
Organization: Free Software Foundation, Cambridge, MA
	<MIB.92Oct2163634@geech.gnu.ai.mit.edu>
	<DREIER.92Oct2160815@lhasa.berkeley.edu>
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 18:41:13 GMT

In article <DREIER.92Oct2160815@lhasa.berkeley.edu> dreier@lhasa.berkeley.edu (Roland Dreier) writes:

   In article <MIB.92Oct2163634@geech.gnu.ai.mit.edu> mib@geech.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Michael I Bushnell) writes:
      In article <cw1JRB17w165w@mantis.co.uk> mathew@mantis.co.uk (mathew) writes:

	 If you print a document in Times Gnu Roman, do you have to give everybody
	 permission to photocopy it?

      Are you really clueless?  Fonts are copyrightable in the US.

   Are *YOU* really clueless? Fonts are NOT copyrightable in the US.

Indeed, I am clueless.  It was a typo.  

Mea culpa.

--
Michael I. Bushnell            Gaude, virgo, salutata Gabriele nuntio.
+1 617 625 4518 (H)      |     Gaude, mater jucundata Jesu puerperio.
+1 617 253 8568 (W)     -+-    Gaude, conresuscitata resurgente filio.
mib@gnu.ai.mit.edu       |     Gaude, tua sublimata prole plena gaudio.
25 Belknap St Apt 1      |     Gaude, sumpta et locata cum Jesu in solio.
Somerville MA 02144            Esto nobis advocata in magno judico, O Maria.
Newsgroups: comp.fonts
Subject: Re: Old English Fonts for Mac
From: Hjalmar Dijkstra <A512HJAL@HASARA11.BITNET>
Date: Tuesday, 29 Sep 1992 19:34:48 CET
Organization: SARA - Stichting Academisch Rekencentrum Amsterdam

There are some "Old-English" fonts available on a listserv in Britain.
They had one adobe type-3 format font and a couple of bitmapped fonts
available last year. there is a middle-English list where they might be able
to tell you the name of the listserv, because I can't find it.
greetings,
          Hjalmar Dijkstra
From: bkph@wheat-chex.ai.mit.edu (Berthold K.P. Horn)
Newsgroups: comp.fonts
Subject: font copyright issue
Date: 29 Sep 92 12:37:43 GMT


`Electronic Publishing' (what used to be called `Typeworld')
Vol. XVI, No. 14, 1992/Sep/23 has an article titlde:

`ATypI 3-part Initiative to Decimate International Font Software Piracy'

and an extract of the question and answer section of the 1992/Feb/21
United States Copyright Office final regulation on the subject entitled:

`Is font software protected by copyright law?'

both on page 20 (It's much too long to type in and cheap OCR doesn't work).

Berthold K.P. Horn
Cambridge, Massachusetts, USA
Newsgroups: comp.fonts
From: lee@sq.sq.com (Liam R. E. Quin)
Subject: Re: ...and the purfuit of happinefs? (was Re: Q: source for late C17th book typeface?)
Organization: SoftQuad Inc., Toronto, Canada
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 20:47:53 GMT

wald@theory.lcs.mit.edu (David Wald) asks for
> a reasonable text font with the long (f-shaped) s.  An old look is ok, but
> I want something as readable as possible for extended text passages.  (Yes,
> I know that most readers will trip on every other syllable in any case.)
> Features that would be nice, but aren't strictly necessary:
>   upright; serifs; basic ligatures (especially long-s t)
>   gobs of other ligatures; other archaisms

> Metafont or Type-1 prefered, but I'll take what I can get.

I shall use { to represent tall-s in the following.

Metafont:
    I can't recall seeing a Roman Metafont font with a tall-s ligature.
    Julian Bradfield did a font with Thorn and Edh, but not tall-s.
    Yannis' Fraktur font set includes ygoth, which is a black-letter font
    more like an English or French blackletter than a German one, although
    I admit I haven't ompared it in detail with the manuscripts.  YGoth
    includes tall s and many ligatures, but does not meet your requirement
    of a typeface readable to a modern audience.
    It has {{ {s and other ligatures.

Type 1:

    You can get these for (at least):
    
    Caslon, an extremely readable typeface.
	Caslon is an old face dating from around 1725 (from memory - I have
	a 1736 book printed with it), and together with Baskerville has been
	one of the world's most widely used faces for many, many decades.
	The Adobe Expert Alternate set includes {h {i {l { {{ {t ct st + others
    
    Garamond
	Another of the world's most popular Roman faces.
	The Expert Collection conatins (at least) ct
	but I don't see { there at all.

    Poetica ( a new Chancery Script face)
	The Poetica 2 supplement contains:
	    ch ck cl ct ff ff ffi ffl ll ll sf sp {s st st th Th Ch ck
	    ct ff ff Hi fi ffi fl ffl ft[?] ll sf ss st st t Th Th
	    [duplicates indicate variations]
    
Hmm, at this point I was going to list Sun F3 and Microsoft TrueType fonts
with { too, and also other Type 1 fonts, but no-one else tells you which
characters are included in their fonts, so I can't easily tell.  Sorry.

Lee

-- 
Liam Quin, lee@sq.com, SoftQuad, Toronto, 416 239-4801; the barefoot programmer
  lq-text (Unix text retrieval package) mailing list: lq-text-request@sq.com

Newsgroups: comp.fonts
From: pviton@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (P A Viton)
Subject: LJ III scalable fonts
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 18:17:42 GMT


Does anyone know how to obtain a width table for one of the scalable fonts
built in to the LJ III, at an arbitrary size (points)?

Thanks for any ideas.

Regards,
-- 
-----------
Phil Viton
PViton@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
Newsgroups: comp.fonts
From: ari@netcom.com (Ari Davidow)
Subject: Re: QUESTION: Why are truetypes w i d e r t
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 92 18:46:25 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

>point size is ... the total height from the top of the highest ascender
>to the bottom of the lowest descender.

Sorry. There is no necessary relationship between what you can measure and
the actual point size of a give piece of type. Point size accurately
reflects proportion, but the actual dimensions of a type face are entirely
at the whim of the designer. Others responding to the original question
have already explained this more eloquently.

To repeat: There is no necessary relationship between point size, the
absolute value of ascender height to descender height, cap height, x height,
or any other type measurement. There are norms, but that's it.

ari davidow
ari@netcom.com
From: hho@aludra.usc.edu (** N.T.K.C.D. ***)
Newsgroups: comp.fonts
Subject: Re: Vietnamese Alphabet
Date: 2 Oct 1992 22:24:46 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu
Keywords: Vietnamese,Portuguese,alphabet

In article <9857@fs3.cam.nist.gov> koontz@cam.nist.gov (John E. Koontz X5180) writes:
>There was a query on this group not too long ago as to whether
>Vietnamese used the French alphabet.  In fact, its alphabet is based
>on Portuguese, having been developed by Portuguese catholic
>missionaries.  Some substantial changes were needed to accomodate
>Vietnamese phonology, and the symbol set requirements of Vietnamese
>are now quite different from those of Portuguese.

ANyone interest in Vietnamese (VISCII (8bits), VIQR (7bits)), please
contact viet-std@haydn.standford.edu :-)

H.



-- 
*******************************************************************************
Hung P. Ho, Jr. (John)     USC DENTISTRY    PH.SYSTEMS          CCCOGP  
                           hho@usc.edu      hung@phsys.com      hung@cccogp.com
From: ljf@puffball.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Leslie French)
Newsgroups: comp.fonts
Subject: Re: Old English Fonts for Mac
Date: 29 Sep 92 09:33:05 GMT

In article <80554@ut-emx.uucp>, churchh@ut-emx.uucp (Henry Churchyard) writes:

|>                                                but you can compose
|> with the macron, or use the acute (which is what the actual Old
|> English manuscripts did).

It is true that OE MSS use a long stroke like an `acute' accent over some
vowels, but it would be wrong to equate it with the `modern' use of a 
macron to indicate vowel length.  Often these are added, rather than
by the original scribe, and they may function to distinguish particles
written before words without a trailing space from proclitics or compounds.
This predates modern, and early-modern notions of word division.

Leslie French
=========================================================================
                     Dr L.J. French                     
Olivetti Research Ltd              Research Group on Manuscript Evidence
24a Trumpington St                 The Parker Library
Cambridge, England                 Corpus Christi College
CB2 1QA                            Cambridge, England
    +44 223 343315                 CB2 1RH
    ljf@cam-orl.co.uk