HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: C11815@maccvm.corp.mot.com (Josette Giacobbi)
Subject: Re: 5 Early Start Ideas
Organization: Motorola
Date: 18 Dec 1992 10:37:28 CST



What I do, but then I live in South Carolina, and it doesn't get THAT cold
but we do have our lows in the 20's.....I have concrete reinforcing wire,
which I have my husband cut (I can't cut thru it, its so thick) and I
bend it in a half circle, put it on top of the raised bed and plant lettuce
in the bed.  I cover the wire frame with two layers of plastic (nice heavy
plastic and hold all the edges down with bricks.  Condensation forms under
the plastic, so all you have to do is tap on the top of this and the
water drips down and waters the seeds, plants, etc.  The double or triple
layers of plastic form air pockets which help to insulate the bed.  Just
make the frame large enough so that when you bend it, it will be high
enough so that the plants will not touch the plastic when they grow.
We got the plastic in a roll (in a box) at the local hardware supply store,
but we didn't get the cheapo, we got the thicker plastic, which is not
really clear enough to see thru, but it works out good, because I think
the super expensive plastic (boat window plastic) would let in too much
sun and would probably cook the plants.    Hope it works for you...
        josette in South Carolina
------------------------- Original Article -------------------------

raft, half filled with water and then complete the job of blowing
it up to make it rigid. Place the clear raft on some bricks over your
seed bed to make a kind of cold frame.

I hope to hear some good ideas. Hell, give me your bad ideas I'm not
picky.
From: jane@soave.swdc.stratus.com (Jane Beckman)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: ideas on steep hillside
Date: 16 Dec 92 01:41:59 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc., San Jose, CA

>-------------------------------------------------------------------
>with NATIVES.  You should be able to easily find "local" natives
>that will be drought tolerant, fire retardant, good erosion control
>and actually provide some WILDLIFE HABITAT.  Wouldn't you enjoy more
>hummingbirds and songbirds in your yard?

This may be a tall order.  An awful lot of the California
native plant population that shows drought tolerance also burns
like concentrated gasoline.  It was designed for an ecosystem
in which this flammability was a Good Thing.  Some compromises
may be in order.
>
>You can do much better than iceplant and purple lantana. Up here in
>Lake County we have a creeping sage that grown on practically
>vertical slopes, is good erosion control and is actually fire
>retardant.  Also quite pretty.

If we're talking California sage, I've seen this stuff combust
fairly well.  Especially under drought conditions.

Native plants are a great idea, but remember that a large
number of California natives have a lot of flammability,
because most of California ecosystems renewed themselves with
periodic fires.  Be careful and know what you're getting. 
--
  Jilara   [jane@swdc.stratus.com]

"The field of pseudo-science hasn't progressed much in ten
years, except to gain access to the net." --from ca.earthquakes
From: kelly@cco.caltech.edu (Kelly F.)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Living Trees: Where to Donate in San Diego, CA
Date: 17 Dec 1992 22:56:37 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
NNTP-Posting-Host: sandman.caltech.edu


If you have a potted, living christmas tree you would like to donate
after the holidays, San Diego Park and Recreation are looking for you!
They need trees (also potted oaks and pines,) for the Mt. Solidad
project, and you can reach them at:
581-9927

Last year the San Diego Zoo and Wild Animal Park were accepting live,
potted, trees, but I have not heard anything about donations so far
this season...

Have a wonderful holiday to all rec.gardens readers!
Kelly
kelly@cco.caltech.edu
From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Burmuda Grass
Date: 18 Dec 92 19:03:25 -0600
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

In article <1992Dec18.194403.16961@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu>, dmiller@theory.lcs.mit.edu (Dick and Jill Miller) writes:
>>
>>If you are thinking about planting bermuda grass, THINK AGAIN!!
>>I don't know you, but I consider myself your friend. DON'T PLANT BERMUDA
>>GRASS!!!!!!!!!!!!!  
> 
> This sounds similar to what we in New England call witch grass which is 
> called quack grass by my Dad from Minnesota.  If so, you have my sympathy.  
> Is it indeed the same?  Kay, help?  Latin names?

To me, quack is _Agropyron repens_ (nasty stuff!)
witchgrass is _Panicum capillare_ (nuisance).  We've got both here
in the midwest.  
Bermuda is _Cynodon dactylon_ and looks like crab grass.  I hated
mowing my aunt's lawn when she had Bermuda.  Had to sort of lift and
shove the lawnmower at the same time.  :-(  It doesn't make it in Iowa...
8-)

Kay
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: naomid@miki.pictel.com (Naomi Diesendruck)
Subject: Re: Maple tree still green...
Keywords: avocado
Organization: PictureTel Corporation
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 18:38:46 GMT

About your avocado grown from seed: it is normal for an avocado to drop
its lower leaves.  You don't say how tall yours is now; if it's not 
too tall, it is considered best to actually chop off the growing stem
(I think at about 6-10 inches, but I don't remember for sure).  This
is traumatic for the person, but apparently not the avocado, which 
responds by branching into two stems.  It will still gradually lose
its lower leaves as it grows, but will spread out also and look more
like a bushy tree, instead of a tall skinny trunk with a few leaves 
on top.  
Whatever you do with it, good luck and have fun!  I had an avocado
that lived for years and eventually was almost as tall as I am (not
saying much ;-) - it was about 4 feet tall.)  Its biggest leaves 
were at least 10 inches long - I really loved that plant, I hope you
get as much joy from yours.

happy holidays,
Naomi Diesendruck,
not an official spokesperson for PictureTel Corporation. 
***************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: npm@dale.cts.com (Nancy Milligan)
Subject: Re: Potted vegetables, ideas needed.
Organization: Titan Linkabit Corporation
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 00:02:29 GMT

Does anyone know if it's feasible to grow potatos in a pot?  That might
be kind of fun.

--
Nancy P. Milligan 				npm@dale.cts.com
Titan Linkabit					cts!dale!npm
		  Gravity is no laughing matter.
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: Bob Klebba <nicmad!klebba%astroatc.uucp@spool.cs.wisc.edu>
Subject: Re: How to keep deer out of my garden?
Organization: Nicolet Instrument Corporation
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 00:13:46 GMT

Subject: Re: How to keep deer out of my garden?
From: Bruce A. Moon, bmoon@eis.calstate.edu

>How about a single wire electric fence? I don't know anything about them
>but my neighbors suggested one as a suitable substitute for barbwire to
>keep dogs away from our sheep.(This was in addition to our 48" wire which
>your neighbors would disapprove of.

I read in a gardening magazine article about a deer-proof fence.  It was
simply two 4' - 5' tall fences space 4' apart.  The space between the
fences
was kept clear.  Apparently if there were only one fence, the deer
wouldn't
hesitate to jump over it.  Adding the second fence makes the leap somewhat
more intimidating.
Bob Klebba
Madison, Wisconsin, USDA zone 4
Inet: nicmad!klebba%astroatc.uucp@spool.cs.wisc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: s5uagm@fnma.COM (Andrew Miller)
Subject: Seed starting trays?
Keywords: seeds sources tropical
Reply-To: s5uagm@fnma.COM
Organization: Fannie Mae
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 18:38:34 GMT

	Now that my forced bulbs are getting ready to bloom,  I'm going to 
use my indoor growing space to try growing some tropicals from seed.

	I have one of those flimsy 1'x2' seed starting trays with an even more
flimsy clear plastic cover.  I see Parks has similar trays.  Are these of the 
same light plastic material?  Does anyone know of a source of a sturdier covered
starting tray?

	BTW I'm going to try "Bird of Paridise".  Anyone have any experience
sprouting/raising them.


			- Andrew -
From: jhb@calmasd.prime.com (Jim Bishop)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: ideas on steep hillside
Date: 9 Dec 92 22:00:24 GMT
Organization: -

In article <1g3h9rINNc60@morrow.stanford.edu>, 
GC.SUL@forsythe.stanford.edu (Sullivan) writes:
> 
>       mab@chem.ucsd.edu (Mary Ann Buckles)writes:
>>
>> [About Hillside erosion and ice plants]
>> 
> PLEASE contact your local chapter of the California Native Plant
> Society (Call their office in Sacto to get your local person's
> number)  They will have all kinds of knowledgable people and
> information on your problem and will help you replant your hillside
> with NATIVES.  You should be able to easily find "local" natives
> that will be drought tolerant, fire retardant, good erosion control
> and actually provide some WILDLIFE HABITAT.  Wouldn't you enjoy more
> hummingbirds and songbirds in your yard?
> 
> Look for a good NATIVE plant nursery in your area.  Tree of Life in
> San Juan Capistrano had a great catalog with growing information and
> are very helpful with natives.

Some suggestions (all are in Encinitas):

Quail botanical gardens - You missed their native plant sale in 
October, but they still sale natives in the garden center.  The
grounds alone are worth the visit.  They have largest (most varieties)
of bamboo in in North America.  (The city of Encinitas just approved a
housing development that will ruin their oceanview. :( )

Webers - You need an appointment to get in.  I've never been able to
get in because of odd hours.

Stallings - They have natives and many other plants.  Not the best
looking nursery, but great variety and the owner does know what he is
talking about.  

BTW:  Most natives look horrible in pots, so don't expect them to look
too great.  Also, you need to be extra careful with San Diego county
natives that don't get supplimental water.  Some may be fire
retardant, but most evolved with our natural fire cycle and expect to
burn at least every 50 years....of course supplimental water in the
summer can also kill many of them.

Jim
From: bmoon@eis.calstate.edu (Bruce A. Moon)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: How to keep deer out of my garden?
Date: 13 Dec 92 15:49:38 GMT
Organization: Calif State Univ/Electronic Information Services

How about a single wire electric fence? I don't know anything about them
but my neighbors suggested one as a suitable substitute for barbwire to
keep dogs away from our sheep.(This was in addition to our 48" wire which
your neighbors would disapprove of.
From: sonia@adara.mti.com (Sonia Lansberg)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Gardening gifts
Date: 16 Dec 92 22:53:44 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Micro Technology, Inc., Anaheim, CA
Originator: sonia@adara

In article <3102@devnull.mpd.tandem.com> ljane@devnull.mpd.tandem.com (Linda Cas
t) writes:
>
> Holiday wish list - a Radio Flyer little red wagon (think that's the
> brand name), already unboxed and ready to go. A used one would
> be fine. A local nursery puts them out for customers to lug their
> planned purchases around in - I'd use it in place of a wheelbarrow.
> Remember how satisfying they were to pull things around with when
> you were a kid?
>

I've been looking for an all-purpose gardening/utility/hauling cart
that I can use for things like: unloading groceries, moving filled
trash cans, moving things around the yard, etc.

What I'm picturing would probably have a flatbed (for lifting trash
cans onto) and some baskets and/or shelves for carrying things like
groceries, pots, tools.

I've tried Mellenger's, but their catalog doesn't contain any carts.
Does anyone have any ideas (with prices)? 

Thanks in advance,
Sonia Lansberg               sonia@lexcel.com
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: drogers@epcot.spdc.ti.com (Daty Rogers)
Subject: Re: Bird food (Was: ... feeding bluejays)
Organization: TI Semiconductor Process and Design Center
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 14:57:27 GMT

In article <JONA.92Dec13134614@calvin.ATT.COM> jona@whservd.att.com (Jon M. Allingham) writes:
>
>PS: anyone know what the hummingbird season is in NJ? I keep wanting
>to put out a hummingbird feeder but really have no idea when they are
>around.
>--
>Jon M. Allingham	(201)386-3637	AT&T Bell Laboratories (Whippany,NJ)
>gummo!jona OR jona@gummo.att.com	WH 1F-224
>
     Try to find out what kinds of flowers attract hummingbirds in your
area. Set out the feeders when these plants go into bloom. My grandmother
also told me that hummers fly with the geese, so when the geese start flying 
south pull the feeders down for winter. A better idea than feeders is to plant
the plants hummers are attracted to, that way you won't have to mess with 
commercial mixes (expensive and the dye is not good for them) or sugar water
(which spoils in a day or so and needs replaced). 
                                                            Daty
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: dweber@ncsa.uiuc.edu (Daniel Weber)
Subject: Re: Prairie Info Update
Originator: dweber@kankakee.ncsa.uiuc.edu
Reply-To: dweber@ncsa.uiuc.edu
Organization: National Center for Supercomputing Applications
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 15:08:27 GMT


In article <1992Dec15.163624.9426@iscsvax.uni.edu>, klier@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:
[Some good information about what happens during the first year of growing
 and methods of restoration deleted.]

I can attest to the truth of all of that Kay said.  When we were restoring
some prairie, we used two different methods of planting: broadcasting and
transplanting.

For the broadcasting, a local farmer would plow a section of the field
twice during the year, and then once again in the spring before planting.
The first year or two of growth didn't look much different than previous
weeds.  Later, once the natives were established the grasses definitely
dominated the forbs.  We always broadcast a mix of seeds though, so I
don't know if giving pure forbs a head start would help.  Probably, if
Kay thinks so.  :-)

The transplanting involved growing hundreds of plants in peat pots, planting
them all by hand in another previously plowed section of field, watering and
weeding throughout their first year of growth.  This gave much better results
with a higher density of forbs to grasses, but was a *lot* of work, especially
in the hot sun without trees (the biggest drawback to most prairie work 8-( ).

-daniel weber
dweber@ncsa.uiuc.edu
From: sonia@adara.mti.com (Sonia Lansberg)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Tree Stump Removal
Date: 16 Dec 92 23:06:18 GMT
Organization: Micro Technology, Inc., Anaheim, CA
Originator: sonia@adara

Does anyone know of a safe organic way to get rid of tree stumps?
These could be stumps in planters or in the lawn.  I don't want
to pay to have them ground up.

I came across a product that is sold in a can.  The problem is, after
you use this stuff, you need to bore holes in the stump, fill it
with fuel, and then ignite it!

Any ideas?  Thanks in advance.

Sonia Lansberg              sonia@lexcel.com
From: br105@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jeffrey A. Del Col)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Prairie Info Update
Date: 15 Dec 1992 11:46:14 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: br105@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jeffrey A. Del Col)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Two booklets that might be very helpful to people interested in prairie
plants are PRAIRIE PRIMER by Stan Nichols and Lynn Entine and tthe
PRAIRIE PROPAGATION HANDBBOOK by Harold Rock.  Nichols and Entine's book
is or was available from the Wisconsin Extension Service Agricultural
Bulletin Building, 1535 Observatory Drive, Madison, WI 53706.  The PPH is
or was available from the Boerner Botanical Gardens Wehr Nature Center
5879 S.92nd St., Hales Corners, WI 53130.

J. Del Col
-- 
Jeff Del Col      *   DECONSTRUCTION--- the critical method invented      
A-B College       *                      by Procrustes  
Philippi, WV      *                             
                  *         
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: ramirez@julia.math.ucla.edu (Alice Ramirez)
Subject: topiary and other garden decorations
Organization: UCLA Mathematics Department
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 15:45:48 GMT

This is probably a sign that I've lived in So.Cal too long, but I find
my thoughts turning, with a certain degree of desire-to-own, to garden 
ornaments....pink flamingos leap to mind, or those little stone squirrelie
or duckie families. I yearn for stone elves, etc. etc. (no bird baths...
too many feral cats around).  Humanoid or animaloid creatures lurking in
among the sorrel and ruby chard or sunning themselves to the south side
of my bonsai'd olive.  I find this sudden letch for schlock 
difficult to reconcile with my BFA degree, but there you are.  Collapse 
of taste can creep up on any of us..... However, I am still trying to 
maintain some standards.

Does anyone know of garden type ornaments that are not the usual
boring garden center items, and if so where and how are they sold?
Any other interesting suggestions will also be appreciated.

It occurred to me that topiary might be a nice compromise. In fact, I saw
quite a lovely one, a no-more-than 3 foot high unicorn nestled among the 
perennials near the front sidewalk of a house I pass on my drive home.
I know that topiary comes in two forms. THe most classic type
of topiary, as I understand, is a large bush pruned 
into a shape, an artform requiring great skill.  A second, easier way 
is to train a vining plant, or maybe a small bush, over some sort of 
armature. (sp?)  Of these last, I have seen a few topiary frames
offered for sale in catalogues, but these have pretty much been limited
to bunnies. 

Is there anyone who sells (for a REASONABLE price) small to medium sized
topiary frames in the form of other animals, such as giraffes, elephants
birds, cats, Triceratops, Apatosaurs, Stegosaurs, Pteranodons, etc. etc.
I'm thinking of mail order catalogues, here. Odds are slim to none that 
I'm going to find what I want locally. Garden centers have a REALLY BORING
selection, and everybody seems to have the same things. Also would be 
interested in any how-to books on the subject of topiary.

Or is there some way that a person who doesn't know how to weld can
put together a strong enough wire topiary frame?  (I suppose, if I get
really desperate, if nothing is out there, I could learn to weld, but this
is a far distant alternative. I am not enamored of the idea of dealing with a
tool that spits out fire hot enough to melt metal.)

Any and all suggestions will be much appreciated.

Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: bartlone@med.ge.com (Michel Bartolone)
Subject: soil 'conditioner' for indoor gardens
Reply-To: bartlone@med.ge.com
Organization: GE Medical Systems
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 15:32:43 GMT

I would like some recomendations for soil conditioner (fertilizer/plant food) which can
be used on things like basil in indoor gardens. I had been growing some very nice basil
plants from about mid-may until about 2 months ago. Unfortunately they all seemed to
die shortly after the time they got moved (along with my family) from  a place with a nice
western exposure to a place with a no-so-nice northern exposure. I think the real problem
may have been lack of light, and I am attempting to remedy that with about 14 hours a day
of the best grow lights I can afford (please read that last part carefully..I didn't say they were
the best ones...)..but I am sure the soil gets leached of its nutritional value by the growth.
What is a good, safe fertilizer to use to grow more basil?

PS: Please e-mail replies (go ahead and post them too!) because it looks like my
news feed to this and numerous other groups will be cut shortly...

---
bartlone@gemed.ge.com

Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: Bob Klebba <nicmad!klebba%astroatc.uucp@spool.cs.wisc.edu>
Subject: Re: Small vines
Organization: Nicolet Instrument Corporation
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 00:21:56 GMT

Subject: Small vines
From: Val Gillman, Val.Gillman@altern8.mi.org
In article <724257217.0@altern8.mi> Val Gillman,
Val.Gillman@altern8.mi.org writes:
>Does anyone know of a small vine -3 to 5 ft- that doesn't need
>much sun? I'd like to train it over my garden gate which gets an
>hour sun in the morning and an hour at night.  Annual or
>perennial.  Ivy was dissapointing last year.  Wouldn't grow.
>Zone 5. Thanks

Although I haven't been in one place long enough to grow one, the climbing
hydrangea (Hydrangea petiolaris) is supposed to be a rather nice, shade 
tolerant vine.  Dirr recommends it highly in his Manual of Woody
Landscape 
Plants.  Specimens I have seen have indeed flourished in the shade.

Another vine that isn't quite so small, but grows well in the shade is
the 
ornamental kiwi (Actinidia kolomkita?).  I've seen it growing in trees in
Japan
and it is quite spectacular.  It may quickly surpass its alloted 5' space
though.
Bob Klebba
Madison, Wisconsin, USDA zone 4
Inet: nicmad!klebba%astroatc.uucp@spool.cs.wisc.edu
From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Small vines
Date: 18 Dec 92 18:49:06 -0600
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

In article <BzDq5v.5s8@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, cl27111@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Christopher  Lindsey) writes:
> 	Kay, you mention Wisteria macrostachya in a post to someone about
> vines; do you know of a nursery source for it?  The only place that I've
> ever seen one is the Morton Arboretum, and I haven't found it listed in
> Anderson's...  I haven't been actively looking either :) but if I can find
> one with minimal effort, then I think I've got a spot for one...

Uh, I fell in love with it in a garden in Tennessee, but I've never lived
in an area that I could grow one.  Will look. 

Kay
From: Bob.Batson@mtask.omahug.org (Bob Batson)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Free Book About Fire Blight
Date: 15 Dec 92 18:18:00 CST
Reply-To: bob.batson@mtask.omahug.org
Organization: Multitasking Systems, Kansas City
Followup-To: rec.gardens

  The USDA has recently published _Fire Blight---Its Nature, Prevention,
and Control; A Practical Guide to Integrated Disease Management_. This
Agricultural Information Bulletin (AIB 631) was written by T. van der Zwet
of the ARS Appalachian Fruit Research Station and S.V. Beer of the
Department of Plant Pathology at Cornell University in Ithaca, New York.
  While supplies last, copies may be obatained, AT NO COST, from the
following: USDA-ARS-NAA, Appalachian Fruit Research Station, 45 Wiltshire
Road, Kearneysville, WV 25430; and Department of Plant Pathology, Cornell
University, Ithaca, NY 14853.


*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

Bob Batson                   | "Deck us all with all with Boston Charlie, 
bob.batson@mtask.omahug.org  |  Walla, Walla, Wash., and Kalamazoo!"      

Newsgroups: rec.gardens