HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: frisch1@athena.mit.edu (Jonathan Katz)
Subject: Re: Hall of Fame voting (read - Disgusted)
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 07:18:11 GMT

Niekro a definite Hall of Famer?  I think not.
1) He was _never_ a dominant player in any year.   I don't refer specifically to
his stats, either.  Let's just say that there was never a time when teams were
'afraid' to face him, like teams nowaday are 'afraid' of Clemens and the way
teams used to feel about Gooden (Ah, those were the days...)
2) Just check out the number of losses he had.  And don't give me that 'bad team'
crap.  Ryan and Carlton had the same problem, and managed to overcome it at least
somewhat.
3) Check out his lifetime ERA.  It's nothing to get excited about, though it is
certainly above average.


Anyway, Niekro may well belong in the Hall.  However, to say he is a definite HOF
seems misguided.  To say that he deserves it more than Reggie is just plain
stupid!
From: gaf5@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (Gail A. Fullman)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: rule-question
Date: 5 Jan 93 20:32:57 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

In article <1i9719INN6i2@mailgzrz.TU-Berlin.DE>, frodo@marie.physik.tu-berlin.de
 (Frank Wagner) writes:
>1) Why no infield-fly is called, if there is a runner on 1st only ?
>
I think the rule is:  umpire calls infield fly rule in effect, batter is out.
This applies if there is less than two out and first or first and second bases
are occupied.


>2) If a fly ball is caught in foul-territory, is it dead or may the
>   runners tag up and try to reach the next base ?
>
   Runners may tag and advance at their own risk.  Ball is not dead.
-- 

------------------------
|   Gail A. Fullman    |
|   Manager - ADMO     |
|   Ext. 83113         |
------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: paula@koufax.cv.hp.com (Paul Andresen)
Subject: Re: SMOKING BANS at ballparks?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 20:14:33 GMT

In article <1ikhoaINNdkk@meaddata.meaddata.com>, brian@meaddata.com (Brian Curran) writes:
|> Today's paper reports that the Orioles have become the fifth major-league
|> team to ban smoking at their open-air stadiums.  Two questions:
|> 
|> 1) What are the other four?
|> 2) How effective has enforcement of this ban been?

At the Kingdome in Seattle, smoking is permitted only on the ramps outside the
building. I've seen no one trying to smoke inside, so it looks to be working
pretty well.

Now if we could just do something about the beer-swillers who behave as if 
they're at a football game...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
              If you're really hip, the passing years will show.
                                           ......Tower Of Power

  paula@koufax.cv.hp.com   Paul Andresen  Hewlett-Packard  (503)-750-3511

    home: 3006 NW McKinley    Corvallis, OR 97330       (503)-752-8424
                            A SABR member since 1979
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Re: Expos Clinch! Wallach to Dodgers
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 15:21:54 GMT

In article <1993Jan3.215016.2706@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca> maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard) writes:
>
>Well if the stats measure performance and performance is equal to 
>talent + intangibles and talent is = 97% of performance then any
>prediction based on performance must be 97% accurate - after discounting
>the intangibles.

Statistics isn't designed to say something *will* happen.  It says "X
will happen x% of the time, and Y will happen (100-x)% of the time."
If the statistics say that team A will beat team B 60% of the time,
and the odds are even, we should bet on team A.  Should we be
disappointed then because team A doesn't win 97% of the time???

>It seems to me that you are admitting that your methods of prediction are
>less than 5% more accurate than a coin toss...

Not entirely correct, though this is the closest you have come in
ages...  A "coin toss" isn't exactly what you are betting against most
of the time.  Usually, one or the other team is favored.  I *will*
admit that statistics are not much better than 5% more accurate than a
weighted coin based on the posted betting lines.

>If that is the case - why do you bother making predictions at all?????

A 5% edge is interesting.  Hell, a .5% edge would be interesting.  And
over 162 games, those edges build up to more significant odds.
(Unfortunately, the bookie's cut also increases when betting on the
season results.)

-Valentine
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: cmk@athena.mit.edu (Charles M Kozierok)
Subject: Re: red sox are laughable.
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 23:35:44 GMT

In article <Jan.4.10.44.20.1993.12236@pilot.njin.net> gajarsky@pilot.njin.net (Bob Gajarsky - Hobokenite) writes:
>
>there are several people i know, who were disgruntled
> red sox fans the past 2 years, who have abandoned the red
> sox ship with their recent signings/trades/actions.  however,
> i just heard an interesting thing...
>
>the red sox are supposedly interested in signing jerome walton.
>
>which would give them more outfielders than the rest of the major
> leagues put together.  

at least they got rid of ellis burks... who signed with the other
color sox.

--
charles
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: djcoll04@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Subject: Re: Baseball fans, players and owners
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 22:36:13 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville

In article <1inj9cINN5u9@flash.pax.tpa.com.au>, anon.574@pax.tpa.com.au writes:
> 
>         Baseball players are overpaid, undereduated, moronic cretins who 
> lack basic social skills.
>         Baseball fans contain all of the above characteristics and are 
> pathetic because of their interest in such a useless sport which contains 
> all of the excitement of a good golf game.
>         You can quote me on this!
> 
> --
> ** Anonymity & Privacy by PAX - Public Access Unix (Adelaide,South Australia) **

Australian friend,
	The United States is far from a perfect country, but one thing we
do strive for, however failingly at times, is tolerance.  We try to let
others enjoy themselves in whatever endeavor one wishes, as long as no one
else is harmed.  It is a concept worth learning.

                                               Unanonomously,
                                                         Patrick Tierney

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: kbanaian@bernard.pitzer.claremont.edu (King Banaian)
Subject: Re: Dodgers sign Parrish and Ritchie
Organization: Pitzer College
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 20:27:49 GMT

In article <1668@blue.cis.pitt.edu> psg+@pitt.edu (Paul S Galvanek) writes:
>In article <1666@blue.cis.pitt.edu> genetic+@pitt.edu (Dr. Dave) writes:
>>Thus spake pcaster@mizar.usc.edu (Dodger):
>>
>>It's certainly not a long-term solution, but I can't imagine that Parrish
>>will be any worse this year than Scioscia would be.
>
>Thing I don't understand is, I thought this is supposed to be the year 
>that Mike Piazza, the Dodger's power hitting catcher of the future, makes
>a name for himself.  Is Parrish simply insurance against a Piazza fizzle,
>or are they going to bring him along more slowly than originally planned?
>
Don't you think the Dodgers are trying to win it all this year?  Given that 
Eric Young yields to Jody Reed and Dave Hansen yields to Tim Wallach, doesn'
t this make you think there is a pattern here?  Besides which, I see him as 
replacing Carlos Hernandez, not Piazza.  It is probably the most justifiable 
of the three moves.

The Dodgers need to go to the dictionary and look up the word "rebuild" ...

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: frisch1@athena.mit.edu (Jonathan Katz)
Subject: Re: Cecil signs :-( :-( :-(
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 16:49:48 GMT

In article <1ira9nINN1st@lynx.unm.edu>, kbos@carina.unm.edu (K. Mitchell Bose) writes:
|> In article <1993Jan11.072048.3770@athena.mit.edu> frisch1@athena.mit.edu (Jonathan Katz) writes:
|> >You think Fielder is barely above average!!!
|> >
|> >I am a Mets fan, and I would love to see him on the Mets.  He is clearly an
|> >impact player.  Better than Bonds, no.  But a star?, yes, definitely!
|> 
|> Lemme guess.  You're new here, right?
|> 
|> -- 
|> Kurt Bose (as in Daisy, not Rose) * kbos@carina.unm.edu * Walks: not that sexy.
|> "Halt!  Based on conclusive dental evidence that truly bites, I arrest you 
|>  hereby for the murdering of the dead Belzic Tascar.  I am obliged to warn you 
|>  that my weapons are registered as offensive fronds!!"- R.M.Allen, "Monkey See"
Now, wait a minute.  What exactly are you trying to imply??
The only point I was trying to make, albeit not to your satisfaction, was that
there are plenty of teams who would be better off with Fielder.
If you have a problem with that, please specify it instead of resorting to vague
generalities!
-Jonathan Katz
From: jlevy@hamp.hampshire.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: words on Hatteberg
Date: 12 Jan 93 23:58:59 EDT
Organization: Hampshire College
NNTP-Posting-Host: hamp.hampshire.edu

I went to a New Britian red Sox game this summer and saw hatteburg play. He
looked pretty bad, but he's young, and was had to play against Sterling
hitchcock and Mark Hutton of the Yankees (two of their top prospects)
	hatteberg was also involved in one of the strangest things I've ever
seen: Okay, bases loaded, Yankees batting, and the batter hit a tiny squib
right in front of the catcher, Hatteberg. hatteberg gets the ball, and throws
it literally twenty feet over first baseman Willie Tatum's head. the right
fielder is scrambling for the ball and every scores except for the batter who
would have scored but completely wiped out rounding third base. kind f a
strange play
But here's the thing: Everyone in the stands was laughing. i don't mean
chuckling. i mean GUFFAWING, at hatteberg for that horible throw and the Sox
were getting killed in the game anyway and it had been a horrible season, and
the entire stadium is laughing uncontrollably at this guy. even the first base
coaches couldn't help it. I have never seen or heard of anything like that
before.
Jon levy
Hampshire College
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Re: Expos Clinch! Wallach to Dodgers
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 15:11:21 GMT

In article <1993Jan3.213819.2158@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca> maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard) writes:
>In <1993Jan3.210529.20966@cs.cornell.edu> tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer) writes:
>
>>Roger, you are an idiot.  Hansen plays for the Dodgers.  The Dodgers
>>are replacing him with Wallach at some cost...
>
>Quite right.  I don't follow the NL as well as I could.  I stand corrected.
>(I was wondering why I had never heard of an Expo named Hansen...)
>
>Do you call everyone an idiot every time you have the opportunity to 
>correct them?

No, only when they post flames on topics they know nothing about.  If
the tone of your post had been polite, I would have simply corrected
you.  If you had your facts straight, I wouldn't have called you an
idiot.

If you don't know who Hansen is, then don't post a flame insisting
that Wallach is better than Hansen.  Make sense?

I called you an idiot because you are behaving like one.

-Valentine
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: drw3l@delmarva.evsc.Virginia.EDU (David Robert Walker)
Subject: Re: Get a life baseball fans... Try ping-pong!
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 16:56:05 GMT

>In article <9301082157.AA27017@pserv.CFSMO.Honeywell.COM>, Khanh Nguyen <khanh@cfsmo.honeywell.com> writes:
  
>  I finally stooped so low as to watch a baseball game the other day.  It was
>  a tape of the "World" Series!  What a joke!  I can't believe you people.  I
>  have seen some half-assed sports in my day, but baseball has got to take
>  the cake.  I mean, really, a bunch of fat, old men running around in kid's
>  outfits, scratching themselves, and spitting on national television.  

Sounds like you have never played baseball, have you? Can you hit a
30-mph pitch, let alone 100 mph? Can you throw a baseball all of 90
feet? Can you catch a soft toss in a glove, let alone a line smash? By
definition a half-ass sport is one you should be able to master quite
easily. I'd be willing to bet if we put you on a slow-pitch softball
team you would strike out in every appearance, drop every ball
hit/thrown to you, and you would almost certainly throw like a girl
(as the old phrase goes, and while offense is definitely intended to
the original poster, it is NOT intended to any female readers of this
group.)

>  Oh, and God forbid they should have to run across the field and damn near
>  have a heartattack.  Please!

I would suggest a foot race between Rickey Henderson, Tim Raines,
Devon White, or Ozzie Smith against any of your table-tennis gods.

>  Have you seen a modern table tennis tourney lately?  Real action!  Mano a
>  mano battle for supremacy on the board.  Each one grabbing his paddle
>  instead of his crotch.

Hitting a ball from one paddle to another is no more difficult than
trying to hit a round ball thrown at 90+ mph with a round bat.

>  No flames necessary-- although I'm not sure you knobheads could scrape up
>  enough intelligence between you to come up with a good one.  Anyway, I'm
>  sure you're all REALLY offended.  Offended-- that's a big person word for
>  when you don't like something that someone said.  

I know how to read the USENET manual, which is something you are
either 1)incapable of doing, or 2) incapable of comprehending. (FYI,
"comprehending" means "to know what it means")

You have nothing to contribute to this group. Save us time, and your
employer many dollars of access fees, and send your next bowel
movement through your anus instead of your keyboard.

>  So, don't bother.
  
>  Khanh

Clay D.

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: mjones@fenway.aix.kingston.ibm.com (Mike Jones)
Subject: Re: Jeff Russell????
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 93 18:31:49 GMT
Reply-To: mjones@donald.aix.kingston.ibm.com
Organization: IBM T. J. Watson Research
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer) writes:
: But who is going to *start* the games???  Clemens and Viola will each
: start 30.  But can anybody else handle the job?  Who will the other
: three starters be?  I'm betting on Darwin, Dopson, and Taylor starting
: the season in the rotation.  But do any of them have the arm to last?

I don't see why not. All three of them are a season and a half away from arm
surgery, and they all showed signs of having recovered strongly last year.
Only Darwin is old enough for age to be a worry. I'm hoping that Minchey
will get a long look in spring training and possibly make the rotation.

   Mike Jones  |  AIX/ESA Development  |  mjones@donald.aix.kingston.ibm.com

One of the odder lessons of the distinctly odd Reagan era appears to be that
a certain kind of economic boom is absolutely terrible for the banking
business.
	- L. J. Davis, Harper's, June 1991
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: dfl@math.wayne.edu (David Frohardt-Lane)
Subject: Re: Lists: The Best Players In Baseeball
Keywords: stars best baseball
Organization: Wayne State University Math Department, Detroit
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 15:13:17 GMT

In article <1993Jan9.053557.21189@Princeton.EDU> niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent) writes:
>In article <1993Jan7.063346.2962@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> nlu@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
>>In article <C0Gww7.98F@cs.dal.ca> niguma@ug.cs.dal.ca (Gordon Niguma) writes:
>>>Best Players For Expansion Club To Have (under 25 years old or 25):
>>>SP: John Smoltz  
>
>>This is quite debatable.  Smoltz's own team Steve Avery, for example, might
>>be a better candidate.
>
>I doubt it.  Smoltz pitched more innings, allowed fewer hits, runs, and
>earned runs, and struck out a lot more.  Avery is only 3 years younger.
>
>How about Mike Mussina, though? 

Three years can make a big difference, so I'd call it about even between
Avery and Smoltz.  I agree Mussina should be on the list.  What about
Dave Fleming?  He's only 23.
>
>>> C: Pudge Rodriguez
>
>Why is everyone so high on him?  Yes, he has an excellent arm.  But he
>isn't much of a hitter, so far.

Anyone who can play reasonably well (above average) at age twenty has a
lot of potential.  Besides, he may not be the next Johnny Bench, but the
category was Best Players for an Expansion Team to Have.  Who would you
rather have?  (Wedge is about to turn 25, while Rodriguez is only 21)

--
David Frohardt-Lane   dfl@math.wayne.edu 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Go Tigers, Lions, Pistons, Red Wings and Wolverines !!!!!!!!!!
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From: clgs11@vaxa.strath.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Get a life baseball fans... Try ping-pong!
Date: 11 Jan 93 11:52:21 GMT
Organization: Strathclyde University VAX Cluster

In article <9301082157.AA27017@pserv.CFSMO.Honeywell.COM>, Khanh Nguyen <khanh@cfsmo.honeywell.com> writes:
> 
> I finally stooped so low as to watch a baseball game the other day.  It was
> a tape of the "World" Series!  What a joke!  I can't believe you people.  I
> have seen some half-assed sports in my day, but baseball has got to take
> the cake.  I mean, really, a bunch of fat, old men running around in kid's
> outfits, scratching themselves, and spitting on national television.  
> 
> Oh, and God forbid they should have to run across the field and damn near
> have a heartattack.  Please!
> 
> And what do these slobs get paid?  $50,000,000 per second!  For what?
> 
> Have you seen a modern table tennis tourney lately?  Real action!  Mano a
> mano battle for supremacy on the board.  Each one grabbing his paddle
> instead of his crotch.
> 
> Pardon my saying so, but the only thing lamer than baseball is what you
> call "football."
> 
> No flames necessary-- although I'm not sure you knobheads could scrape up
> enough intelligence between you to come up with a good one.  Anyway, I'm
> sure you're all REALLY offended.  Offended-- that's a big person word for
> when you don't like something that someone said.  
> 
> So, don't bother.
> 
> Khanh




WHAT A PRICK !!!!!!!

A.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: steph@pegasus.cs.uiuc.edu (Dale Stephenson)
Subject: Re: Mark grace Follies was Re: The Best First-base Player in !993
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 04:59:59 GMT

In <1993Jan11.192928.1@hamp.hampshire.edu> jlevy@hamp.hampshire.edu writes:
>In article <C0pqIw.B2s@Novell.COM>, dtokarew@tokafew.Doc.Provo.Novell.COM (Deb Tokarewich) writes:
[...]

>mark Grace? you got to be kidding me.
>> Just one: Ever hear of Mark Grace?


>even Mattingly's beter than Mark Grace.
>that's an even bigger joke than white boy donny.

1992:
Grace     307/380/430
Mattingly 288/327/416

No contest.  Grace in a walk.  Not to mention that Grace is 3 years younger,
still has a back, and actually plays good defense instead of just having the
rep for it :->.

Of course, Grace doesn't compare with Thomas or McGriff, but he's still better
than Mattingly.
-- 
Dale J. Stephenson |*| (steph@cs.uiuc.edu) |*| Baseball fanatic

  "It is considered good to look wise, especially when not 
   overburdened with information" -- J. Golden Kimball
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: ts@chainsaw.ecn.purdue.edu (Thomas Ruschak)
Subject: Re: Troy Neel and the ability to hit...
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 04:20:40 GMT

In article <20741@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> ez027993@dale.ucdavis.edu (Gary The Secret's In The Pesto Huckabay) writes:
>Why aren't the A's playing Troy Neel?  I realize he's old, but he's
>got at least two MLB years in him of reasonable quality.  He destroyed
>AAA (PCL) pitching last year, at age 27.  He hits for power, some
>average, and, like everyone in the A's system, walks a considerable
>amount.
>
>He's not going to be a star - but he could take Harold Baines' job, 
>couldn't he?
>
>How about some Projections from someone with a handbook?  I believe
>Troy is doing his customary massacre of winter ball pitching about
>now.

Glad to help. Last year for Tacoma, he did this:

BATTERS      BA   SLG   OBP   G  AB   R   H  TB 2B 3B HR RBI  BB  SO SB CS
Neel, Troy  .351 .439  .586 112 396  61 139 232 36  3 17  74  60  84  2  5

According to Stats, this works out to a MLE of:

BATTERS      BA   SLG   OBP   G  AB   R   H  TB 2B 3B HR RBI  BB  SO SB CS
Neel, Troy  .305 .382  .478 112 370  47 113 177 29  1 11  57  46  89  1  5

Looks like he should be up to me, even tho he's 27.

Stats projects him for next year as:

BATTERS      BA   SLG   OBP   G  AB   R   H  TB 2B 3B HR RBI  BB  SO SB CS
Neel, Troy  .266 .355  .425  96 252  34  67 107 16  0  8  38  35  53  2  2

>
>I'd be surprised if he couldn't hit .240/.350/.440 in OAKLAND.  That's
>a major league hitter.  Anyone who can provide more info, please do.

That's what they seem to think, too, +5 OBP, -15 SLG.. Pretty close.
(I'm not sure, tho, if their projections take park, etc, into account.
They seem to, but they don't explain their methods much) I do wonder
why they project him so low. Still, he'd never had a particularly good
year at AAA prior to last year. Maybe they think of him as a 'good in AAA'
player? Heck, I dunno. Anyway, here's a quick rundown of his career:

Year	Team			Level	AB	 BA	 OBP	 SLG
1986	Batavia			A	13	.000	.000	.000
1987	Burlington		R	192	.281	.364	.526
1988	Waterloo		A	331	.290	.370	.429
1989	Canton-Akron		AA	404	.292	.380	.510
1990	Colorado Springs	AAA	288	.281	.374	.396
1991	Tacoma			AAA	59	.237	.328	.322
1991	Huntsville		AA	364	.277	.410	.525
1992	Tacoma			AAA	396	.351	.439	.586
1992	Oakland			ML	53	.264	.339	.491

	1990 in Colorado Springs isn't terrible, until you account for
the PCL (this year, the PCL average line was .279/.352/.403) So, he was
a little above average there. In 1991 they sent him back to Huntsville AA,
and he did well. Then in 1992, he finally did well in AAA. Anyway, you
got the statsa now, you decide.

Tom