From: johnsd2@jec326.its.rpi.edu.its1 (Daniel Norman Johnson)
Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Macintosh bigots
Date: 18 Nov 92 17:49:02 GMT
Article-I.D.: rpi.k0x1cwc
Reply-To: johnsd2@jec326.its.rpi.edu.its1
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.

In article 722088782@gmd.de, strobl@gmd.de (Wolfgang Strobl) writes:
|>In <ckx1x-l@rpi.edu> johnsd2@jec327.its.rpi.edu.its1 (Daniel Norman Johnson) writes:
|>
[deletia- sound driver stuff]
|>>Remember that if Windows can count the extra stuff like that, so can
|>>the Mac. It would get crazy fast, I think.
|>
|>I don't buy that argument, because it gives the Macintosh an
|>unfair advantage :-).

Oh  well annother good argument down the drain... :)

|>  Look, the Macintosh is a more or less
|>closed system.

It is?

|> You buy a system from a single source, complete
|>with all hardware and system software.

You ->can<- do this but then you ->can<- do that with an IBM
PC too. You dont have to; its true that apple is teh only major
source of Mac CPUs but you can get keyboards, mice, monitors,
video cards, hard drives, memory, etc from other sources. Often
cheaper or better.

|> It may be expandable,
|>but only as an afterthought, at best.

Pardon me? Defend this (as a general statement about all Macs, not just
the dumb unexpandable ones; if you just mean those I agree but
it isn't relevant)

|> The usual case is that
|>if it doesn't fit your needs anymore, you throw it away or
|>sell it, and buy another machine, complete with a new system.

Maybe you do but I dont have the money to burn.
If I need a faster system I expect Ill buy an accelerator.

|>Because of that, there isn't a need for "extra software",
|>very often.

Sure you do; you can't very well do ANYTHING with an out-of-the-box
Mac 'cept play with the finder. You need some sort of apps, at least.

|>In the PC world, this is a bit different. Of course, you
|>*can* stay with the "single supplier" model here, too, i.e.
|>buy everything from IBM, for example. But you don't have to.

Right.
You don't have to with a Mac either, for the most part.

|>A PC is a case, a power supply, a motherboard, a keyboard,
|>a few peripheral cards and a monitor.

With the Mac the case, power supply, motherbaord and a floppy
drive are sold as a unit. This is rather common in the PC world
also, no?

This is the only bit you must generally be apple-made.
Tho there are exceptions- some portables are made with apple roms,
but not by apple. And I think there's a tower mac "clone" done the
same way.

|> You man mix and match
|>these hardware components almost freely, and make your choice
                           ^^^^^^
Almost? :)

|>of system software from a palette of four or five operating
|>systems, including Windows, according to your needs. 

That's true, and if thats what you want, well the PC delivers it.
The Mac does not.

But I dont think its something most people want (why would they?)
And it leads to vicious compatability problems.

Do think they are so bad? Try running a WPS app in Windows 3.1!
Try to run a GeoWorks app (if you can find one) under, well, anything.
Try running a Unix binary on OS/2.

There are various attemps in there to alleviate this problem- DOS
compataibility boxes, windows emulators etc- the compatibility is
never 100% (understandably) and may take quite a speed penalty.
(particularly, I understand the seamless Windows box of OS/2 is
fairly slow)

And fitting it all together is all sorts of fun.

|>In that latter case, one usually gets the necessary drivers
|>from the hardware supplier. For example, I got the Windows 3.0
|>printer driver for my DeskJet from HP, because it had more
|>capabilities (scaleable fonts) than the standard DeskJet
|>driver on the Windows 3.0 disks. I'm not using it anymore,
|>because the standard 3.1 driver supports TrueType. 
|>
|>If I can't count that 3.0 driver, because it's "extra software",
|>or the internal speaker driver from Microsoft, because it
|>isn't contained on the original retail disks of Win 3.1, we
|>should stop to count all the "extra hardware", for example
|>secondary video cards, and all the bug fixes which found
|>their way into Macintoshs after the original OS installation,
|>for the Macintosh. Ok?
|>

I should certainly hope your printer COMES WITH that driver (it would
be more than a little lame if it does not); I am willing to count
the most recent versions of these products (Windwos 3.1 instead of 3.0,
say. Or the latest-and-greatest-printer-driver from HP) It should be
thrown in as part of the hardware you buy. (is it?)

The bug fixes are included in new versions of the system; As for the
hardware; well I have not been counting multiple monitors. I would
count the CAPABILITY to have them if you want them (say, if you need
more space or depht); and that comes with the system. Multitudinous
monitors generally do not come with the system. For similar reasons
Ill let you count accelerated video.

But you cant count the sound driver because its not sold with any part
of your hardware (odd, isn't it?), nor will I count (say) the MPW Shell
(free from ftp.apple.com!); Ill let you count Windows (it usually
comes with) but I wont count A/UX (which is rarely used).

On the other hand, if you really hate it we can just Leap Into The Fray
With All the Weird Utilties And So On We Can Think Of. It very likely
wont convince me of anything (I dont think it means much), but it may
be fun! :)

---
			- Dan Johnson
And God said "Jeeze, this is dull"... and it *WAS* dull. Genesis 0:0

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