From: roholdr@ccu.umanitoba.ca (R Ross Holder Jr)
Subject: Re: UManitoba game applicants: READ!!!
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 00:32:04 GMT


In <BvL2tA.41x@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> cashman@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Geoff Cashman) writes:

>Sigh,

>It is fairly obvious to me that this is quickly degrading into a flame
>war despite my attempts otherwise. 

Isn't "degrading" an adjective?  :)  Anyway, what's happening is we're
expressing legitimate differences of opinion.  Neither he nor I are being
insulting (at least I hope I haven't been).  I certainly have taken nothing
Mr. Cashman has said as degrading. :)

>Again, for future or current deities:

>1) It is highly unwise to deity at another site where you do not have
>   direct full time access to the directory holding the server and it's
>   files.  Assistant deity?  Sure.  Primary deity?  Forget it.

So far I haven't addressed this point.  No doubt Mr. Cashman would have
to enter into a very technical explanation - I'm satisfied to take his
word for it.

>2) NOT informing sys admins, even if you think they won't approve, is
>   the wrong way of going about things.  NOT informing them can create
>   an "us vs. them" scenario, much as many MUDs have had to face.

True; if the admins are so insecure about the tiniest oversight in a user
not bowing to their highness.  Such action would be universally unreasonable
on sites which have no expressed rules about running games like Empire.  At
U of Manitoba - there are no expressed rules.  So, just like it's okay to
walk your dog after 6 p.m. if there's no law against it, it's okay to put
up a game like Empire at your site unless there's some rule against it.
(Even if there is, like I said, sites where there are such rules somtimes
may take little or no interest in it - provided it does not interfere sub-
stantially with system function.)

>   NOT
>   informing them can, and will in many circumstances, result in the game
>   being shut down prematurely.  NOT informing the sys admins will 
>   not make any sys admin's heart warmer for a deity or player. 

Forgive me, but I hardly see the average system administrator as a poor,
loneley man who's iron tyranny over his silicon domain can be softened with
a few kind words.  He doesn't care!  Why should he?  He's got better things
to worry about than a few harmless gamers taking a brief pause from
racking thier brains the rest of the day.  It won't hurt anyone
if you put Empire up...it's been suggested (by other users) that Empire takes
up as little as .1 - .5% of total CPU resources.  Go ahead!  Put it up!
There's doezens of players screaming for dieities to give them a chance to
play!

>Nothing that has been said in this thread has convinced me otherwise.

Probably because I'm not particularly convincing, and/or I'm long-winded.
(Or because I'm dead wrong and just can't see it.)

>I'm NOT being bullheaded.  As many players here can attest to, I've been
>around the block, and had my share of experiences both good and bad. 

No one suggested otherwise.  I don't consider it his failing for not seeing
my "reasoning" - there are three very plausible alternatives mentioned above.

>I can count game after game where the deities had permission of the
>sys admins, or were the sys admins themselves.  Unfortunately, I can 
>remember many games where such was not the case, and games that
>vanished without notice. 

Without hard statistics - I'm still tempted to argue "go for it" and see
what happens.  After all it's just a game.

>It must be remembered, that at the very large majority of educational
>institutions, computing access is a priviledge *NOT* a right.

I'm afraid he's right here.  Although why this flawed perception on
the part of computer services departments worldwide persists is beyond me.
In my country, Canada, the state heavily subsidizes universities - or at
least did before Brian Mulroney became our dreaded Prime Minister.  The
line a student gets fed when (s)he suggests an obligation on the part of
the university is "P-ha!  You didn't pay for it!  Who are you to complain?"
Okay, there's a point to this (an increasingly weak point given our tuition
has gone up 28% in the last two years) - a point that could be debated further.
But in the United States of America - there is no point; you pay your tuition
and you get services for it.  If you pay the same tuition as a fourth-year
Computer Science major and are a student of Law, you should get the same
privelages (provided monies from your tuition go to support both faculty's
services equally).  As it happens, here at the U of M, it is tuition money -
not faculty fees (and certainly not Student Union dues) that pay for
the Computer Services department.  I should have as much right to access to
"computer services" as the computer science student.

Another way of putting it; I don't have a *right* to your car.  But if I
give you money in exchange for renting, don't I have a right to use it?


>In 
>conjunction with this, it must be noted that Empire has NOTHING
>to do with academics.

Neither does the campus bar, the campus video arcade, the campus billiard
room - all of which use student money just like the unix mainframe at this
university.  Computer Services has, however, not made it a policy to outlaw
entertainment on campus - nor should it.  Besides, I'll wager you that
I'd learn a good deal more about computers generally setting up an Empire
client than I will playing Champion Edition Street Fighter.

>Please please please, future Empire deities, don't let Empire become
>a sys admin's worst nightmare....get permission.

Don't look for problems.  Set it up and deal with the problem's when they
come (if they come).

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
R. Ross Holder, Jr.  INTERNET: roholdr@ccu.umanitoba.ca  (Winnipeg, Manitoba)
       Department of Philosophy                The University of Manitoba
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-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
R. Ross Holder, Jr.  INTERNET: roholdr@ccu.umanitoba.ca  (Winnipeg, Manitoba)
       Department of Philosophy                The University of Manitoba
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