From: eli@cisco.com (Steve Elias)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Honda perfection management
Date: 21 Jan 93 18:52:44
Organization: cisco Systems
Distribution: na
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	<1993Jan22.013308.18148@en.ecn.purdue.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: glare.cisco.com
In-reply-to: surge@en.ecn.purdue.edu's message of Fri, 22 Jan 93 01:33:08 GMT


   How about some facts from a Ford owner?  I have a realtively
   cheap Tempo (1988) with 62K miles on it.  I have NEVER had to
   have one of those several hundred dollar dealer visits.  I just
   change the oil (usually myself, or go to Walmart and pay $15).
   The fuel pump did go out and that cost $240.  Ford however had a
   recall and thus I was reimbursded.  The only repair was a
   suddenly dead ignition coil (at 50K) that cost a total of $125.  But I
   seem to be way ahead of you since I never had to do any special
   30K, 60K , etc dealer visits.  

i've never done a dealer visits either, and don't plan to
unless a warranty item bites it!  btw, a friend of mine had
2 tempos, each went through 3 sets of struts by the time they
reached 50k!  all replaced by ford warranty, but quite a pain 
in his butt.  tranny in the first one died at around 90k.

anyway, on the hondas,
the 30k maintenance is just plugs, typical tuneup, AND "valve
adjustment".  i am skeptical that valve adjustment is really needed,
that is the one item on 30k maintenance that you might find excessive.
i went for it anyway though.
i think it was an extra hour's labor or so ($65, out here).
is $65 every 30k miles really something to gripe about?  
total 30k maintenance was about $300.  i don't do any routine
maintenance any more, i'm slow and unreliable at car repair,
and i have other things to do with my time.  

   Of course, I have done the routine
   maintenance like radiator flush, spark plug changes, ignition
   wire change, air filter, etc.  These costs are pretty small.

the above doesn't sound like a car with a perfect reliability record
to me.  if you've been to the dealer, it wasn't perfect.  i guess the
bottom line is, after 100k, or whatever, how many dealer visits and
how much money and time have you put into the car for maintenance and
repairs.  

   The Hondas have a good reliability record as far as break down on
   the road, I don't doubt that.  The point of this thread is that
   most Honda owners conveniently seem to forget the ridiculously
   high maintinence costs of their cars. 

that point just plain isn't true.  nothing is ridiculously high
about the maint costs of the hondas, as long as you don't follow
the dealer BS about "inspect exhaust system" every 7500 miles, etc,
or whatever crapola they want to charge you for.  if you're naive,
they're gonna take you for a ride on those "recommended service
intervals".  if you've got a brain, you can use it to prevent them
from giving you a snow job on bullshit maintenance items.

   I don't have to have my
   timing done (not till past 100K if ever, thanks to engine
   management).  I don't have to have my valves adjusted routinely.
   I don't have to have a rubber timing belt replaced (mine is
   chain).  Wait till you have to replace your timing belts to the tune of a
   couple hundred bucks (at 60K)....you will still be singing the
   "reliability" song.  That's what annoys non-Honda owners.

the timing belt thing is a good point, that costs some bux.

   So I paid $125 (after 50K miles).  I rather have that than several
   special dealer visits that would have totalled more than that.

again, you don't need to go to the dealer!  most shops can do 
30k honda tuneups.  the valve adjustments don't take long, either.

   You Honda owners sound like all you've done is put gas in and
   change the oil (and filters, etc).  I think this was the point of
   the original poster.

you can argue that valve adjustments and timing chain replacements
aren't routine, sure.  either way it all comes down to whether one is
satisfied with the vehicle, right?  if you're satisfied, great.  i am
too!  but don't try to lay a line of BS on me about how i'm paying
lots of maintenance costs for my 2 honda civics, it just isn't true.
i do know some honda owners who do fall for the "every 7500 miles"
service interval hogwash -- yes, these people are getting taken for a
ride.

anyway, you sound happy with your car, and that's the bottom line.
enjoy!

/eli