HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig)
Subject: Re: SF + PC
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 18:03:15 GMT

curtis@cs.berkeley.edu (Curtis Yarvin):
>Expose students to whatever the hell they want to read.

How would you implement this in a classroom setting, and with what
educational objectives?  Or is this your way of saying that you've
joined the "keep books out of our schools" contingent?

This, btw, is only marginally related to the earlier topic of 'the canon':
I don't think anyone seriously suggests that the pitifully few books that
get assigned in school can constitute the body of works we'd like students
to have read, or even a significant portion thereof.  That doesn't mean
that there aren't good reasons to choose those few books carefully.  On
what basis?  That depends on your objectives...

-----
Dani Zweig
dani@netcom.com

   God helpe the man so wrapt in Errours endless traine  -- Edmund Spenser
From: iqv@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Bujold and Ellison (sad news re HE)
Date: 29 Dec 92 15:21:33 EST
Distribution: rec
Organization: Cornell University

Many thanks to those who helped me with my Bujold question; I'll get Shards
of Honor, and start with that one.  I've found in geneal that Hugos predict 
good stuff (that's why I read Startide Rising, and Ender's Game).


I found haw to get City on the Edge, so I don't need any more help with that 
one.  On a sadder note, I thought I'd let the Ellison fans out there know that
HE is going to have triple-bypass surgery on the 4th.  Let's hope for a speedy
recovery for a fabulous author.

					David Sebba
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,rec.arts.books
From: ecl@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (Evelyn C. Leeper)
Subject: Re: SF + PC
Organization: AT&T
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 20:12:03 GMT

Laura Mollett writes:
> Sometime later I get a note from the librarian that says, 
> in part: Of course, Amanda may choose more challenging 
> reading material.  I will be delighted to help her select 
> something more substantial. However, I really feel that 
> there are more appropriate choices for Amanda's maturity 
> level than _The Babysitter's Club_.  I hope when she 
> finishes the series she will embrace the multitude of 
> excellent literature we have at Ashland.  I will be glad 
> to provide you with a list of books if you so desire.
> 
> Is there any reason at all why I should choose her "for 
> fun" reading forher from a list.  What's wrong with what 
> she chooses for herself?
> 
> Any suggestions?

Well, since presumably part of why you read rec.arts.books is for
reading suggestions from other people, I don't see what the problem is
either.  As long as Amanda understands that everyone has different
tastes and she doesn't have to feel guilty if she doesn't like what the
librarian recommends, you should encourage her to try some of what
other people suggest--that's how she discovers new things.

Evelyn C. Leeper  |  +1 908 957 2070  |  att!mtgzy!ecl or  ecl@mtgzy.att.com
--
"To make the point [that homosexuals hamper military effectiveness] I'd
say that you would have to sift through your military history till you
find an instance in which failure has been attributed to the presence
of homosexuals on the losing side.  I'm not aware of any such case in
the past 2500 years, but I'd be interested to hear what you find."
-Nathan Engle
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: SF + PC
Date: 1 Jan 1993 18:07:01 GMT
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
NNTP-Posting-Host: oas.stanford.edu

Laura Mollett writes:

	I wrote the librarian a note, and asked that she be allowed
	to check out the books (and mentioned the "Easy" books were 
	not challenging to her anyway) and this privilege was 
	immediately granted.  

	Sometime later I get a note from the librarian that says, 
	in part: Of course, Amanda may choose more challenging 
	reading material.  I will be delighted to help her select 
	something more substantial. However, I really feel that 
	there are more appropriate choices for Amanda's maturity 
	level than _The Babysitter's Club_.  I hope when she 
	finishes the series she will embrace the multitude of 
	excellent literature we have at Ashland.  I will be glad 
	to provide you with a list of books if you so desire.

	Is there any reason at all why I should choose her "for 
	fun" reading forher from a list.  What's wrong with what 
	she chooses for herself?

	Any suggestions?

Its hard to fault the school librarion's behavior. Wasn't she doing precisely
what we want those people to do? Its not a question of "what's wrong with
what she chooses for herself?", but a question of parental or in loco parentis
guidance. You might as well argue that children should decide their own
curriculum (some do!). But there's another point. You seem to have difficulty
accepting the "in loco parentis" role that you must allow the school to
play -- to an extent that is reasonable. You caught a certain pattern of
rather harmless anti-social behavior from your own mother and are ready to
imprint the same behavior in your daughter.

My advice? Explain to your daughter that the libranian is there to help, and
encourage her listen to the teacher but then determine for herself what she
wants to read.

							RABworm
From: cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu ()
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Heinlein
Date: 21 Dec 1992 17:45:35 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Dec18.200257.857@pages.com> bwebster@pages.com writes:
>
>Heinlein was married to a very intelligent, competent, strong-willed woman  
>(Virginia), whom I suspect was the role model for many of his main female  
>characters. I think Virginia would have handed Robert his head if he had  
>consistently portrayed women as negatively as you seem to think he did. 

She was his second wife, let's not forget.  The first wife's name was
Leslyn, and Heinlein  divorced her and married Virginia shortly after
World War Two.

	(There's an anecdote in the appropriate volume of Asimov's
	autobiography: it's just after the war, Heinlein and Asimov
	are no longer working together at the Naval Yard, and the
	Asimovs get a friendly, nothing-in-particular letter from
	Heinlein.  Gertrude: "I see Bob and Leslyn are having trouble."
	Isaac: "Whatever do you mean?  Why, he doesn't even _mention_
	Leslyn."  Gertrude:  "That's right; he doesn't even mention
	her.")

The ironic thing is, she seems to have been much the same kind of person
as Virginia!  You can read a portrait of her in Anthony Boucher's
_Rocket to the Morgue,_ written just before WW2.  Look for "Anson Carter"
and his wife "Bernice."  She's cool, intelligent, competent, and a
writer herself.

	(Bernice: "How much sex will Don [=JWCJr.] stand for in a
	story?"  Anson: "In a word, none.  Why?"  Bernice:  "Oh, no
	matter; I can proceed without it.  Only it's an interplanetary
	romance, and I was just wondering about the physiological
	aspects....")



Dorothy J. Heydt
UC Berkeley
cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu

Disclaimer:  UCB and the Cozzarelli lab are not responsible for my
opinions, and in fact I don't think they know I have any.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: wpwood@queball.austin.ibm.com (Bill Woodward)
Subject: Re: Niven/Mote in God's Eye
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 08:53:44 GMT
Reply-To: billw@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com (Bill Woodward)
	<1h5k6bINN1oo@hp-col.col.hp.com>
Organization: The Institute of Knowledge on Jinx

In article <1h5k6bINN1oo@hp-col.col.hp.com> lpj@col.hp.com (Laura Johnson) writes:

   harit@kripalu.com writes:
   > 
   > Check out the other Niven/Pornelle colaborations: Lucifer's Hammer, Legond of  
   > Herot (If you are willing to be scared), Footfall.
   > -- 

   Yes, I agree with this. Niven/Pournelle books are not the same as Niven
   books. Many people like both, of course, but I find that I quite enjoy
   the collaborative efforts but can't finish most books by Niven alone. My

I love all the Niven/Pournelle colaborations, although I did not love some
of them as much as the others.  They are :

1)  The Mote in God's Eye - First contact with an alien race.  I like
          		    Pournelle's CoDominium, but most of the books
			    he writes in it alone are military S.F., which
			    I'm not that crazy about.  This book, though,
			    is one of my top three S.F. novels of all
			    time.
2)  Lucifer's Hammer - Big rock falls on the Earth.  Film at 11.
3)  Footfall - Alien invasion.  Was very well done, but seemed to have
	       a lot of the same characters as #2 above.
4)  Oath of Fealty - This was kind of an odd one.  I didn't like it at
		     first, but I read it a few more times and it got better
		     each time.
5)  Inferno - The story of a science fiction author who dies and travels
	      through Dante's Hell with a surprise guest.  Wonderful !!!
6)  Legacy of Heorot - Another that I had to read a few times to enjoy, but
		       great the second time around.  Written with Steven
		       Barnes.
7)  Fallen Angels (?) - With Michael Flynn.  Never read it.

   I find that I like Niven's short stories *a lot*.  However, his solo
novels, IMNSHO, leave a bit to be desired.  It's seems that he will stretch
a story that really could be told in a good short story into 350 loooong
drawn-out pages.  The only novel he wrote that I really enjoyed (and I
*know* I'll catch hell for this) is _Protector_.
   OTOH, grab a copy of the book _A_Step_Farther_Out_ by Pournelle.  It's 
a collection of science-fact essays, and although a lot of people may not
agree with some of the ideas therein, it's got a lot of neat stuff in it.
--
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Bill Woodward         |   I am the terror that flaps in the night.
AIX Development       |                              - Darkwing Duck
512-838-4107          |   Mi estas la teruro kiu nokte batas.
billw@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com                          - Malhelflugilo Anaso
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: dstein@oak.math.ucla.edu (David Stein)
Subject: Re: Auto-buy lists
Organization: UCLA Mathematics Department
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 92 15:15:16 GMT

  The only contemporary SF author who has never failed me is Stanislaw Lem.  
I have been sometimes disapointed by him (as with _The Chain of Chance_), 
but never even close enough to think twice before reading his next book.

  Now P.K. Dick is one of my favorite writers, but no way would I be willing
to get anything from him without having an idea how good it is.  Dick wrote
too much to be consistently good.

 - David

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm not a native speaker of English, so I'm not sure what I wrote.
Flames will be ignored unless you post them in perfect Czech.
================================ - David (the metamathician) - ===
From: John.M..Ford@f341.n282.z1.tdkt.kksys.com (John M. Ford)
Sender: FredGate@tdkt.kksys.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Paranoia Novel?
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 02:13:04 -0600

>>...a novel based on the PARANOIA game?
        The title is EXTREME PARANOIA (or, Nobody Knows the Trouble 
I've Shot).  It's been out for some time, and I believe there's a 
second one on the way.
        There was also supposed to be a PARANOIA comic series, but 
Marvel dithered for an extended period of time and decided against 
it.
From: "paul shannon" <paul.shannon@execnet.com>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: vonda n mcintyre's me
Date: 26 Dec 92 17:35:24 EST
Reply-To: "paul shannon" <paul.shannon@execnet.com>
Distribution: rec
Organization: Executive Networks Information

SJ>     Now if only somebody knew when Diane Duane's THROUGH A GLASS
SJ>     DARKLY, a Star Trek: The Next Generation hardcover by an equally
SJ>     amazing, and equally underrated, author, was coming out... I had
SJ>     heard this Christmas... but it's still not on anybody's impending
SJ>     releases list through June 93.  (shit).

Diane's book is currently scheduled for Dec. '93.  (We should be getting
it from her any day now.)  I've read a few early chapters, and it
definitely lives up to expectations.  By the way, it's been retitled, it
it will now be called DARK MIRROR.  Hope I've been of help!

Paul Shannon -- paul.shannon@execnet.com
---
  DeLuxe/386 1.25 #9407  
--
Executive Network Information System  (914) 667-4567
International ILink Host
From: dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: War World: Blood Feuds
Date: 21 Dec 92 21:55:39 GMT
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)

"War World" has definitely settled into the Shared Universe Doldrums --
Lots of pain, suffering, and blood on the ground, but nothing significant
is likely to happen until sales get low enough to motivate the writers
to wrap it up.

The first book was particularly good.  The last surviving Sauron
super-soldiers (alluded to in "The Mote in God's Eye") take over a
particularly isolated and marginally habitable planet (fifty thousand
soldiers sitting on millions of helots), and several centuries pass,
during which the lid becomes increasingly hard to keep down.  In part,
the problem is genetic:  Sauron genes have been diffusing into the general
population for centuries.  The ending that seems to be foreshadowed is
that the Empire will eventually rediscover a world that has finally
defeated the Saurons -- but that has become largely Sauron, genetically,
in the process.  The Empire has a legacy of hatred towards super-soldiers.

"Blood Feuds" is "the first War Worlds novel", as opposed to anthology.
The first third collects a series of stories written by Harry Turtledove
in this shared universe, a somewhat labored adaptation of the Oedipus
legend.  (The tribal shaman is called Tireshyas, instead of a prophecy
there is an over-omniscient computer...)  After the death of Juchi/Oedipus,
his daughter drums up a mass rebellion against the Saurons.  That's the
second two thirds.  At which point we find out that "the first...novel"
is an ambiguous phrase: There's a sequel for those who want to know how
the story comes out.

If you haven't read any of the "War World" books, this isn't the place
to start.  If you like the Pournelle/Stirling/Drake brand of militarily-
oriented sf, try the first book, "War World I: The Burning Eye", and
then decide whether to read the sequels, bearing in mind that they're
not as good.  If you have been reading them, you'll already have read
the first third of this novel, and will be able to judge for yourself
whether you want to read the rest.

-----
Dani Zweig
dani@netcom.com

   'T is with our judgements as our watches, none
   Go alike, yet each believes his own
		--Alexander Pope
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,rec.arts.books
From: Marty.Moore@launchpad.unc.edu (Marty Moore)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Anarchy in S.F.
Date: 28 Dec 92 14:02:45 GMT
Organization: University of North Carolina Extended Bulletin Board Service

[Sorry, I lost the references.  I'm still trying to get the hang of this.]

Somebody mentioned the novel ANARCHAOS.  I posted that it was by Donald E.
Westlake.  Somebody else pointed out that the original novel was by Curt
Clark.  This is true: "Curt Clark" is one of Westlake's pseudonyms, and
the original novel was published under that name (which I had forgotten).
However, the best place to find ANARCHAOS today is in the collection 
TOMORROW'S CRIMES, published under Westlake's own name.

Marty Moore
--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik )
Subject: Re: Ellison
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 01:37:58 GMT
Organization: (Evil Eye Creature from Mars, Inc.)
Followup-To: rec.arts.sf.written

In article <1hb2otINNld2@agate.berkeley.edu>, chuahl@ocf.berkeley.edu (Chua
HakLien) wrote:
> In article <9212232319.AA17732@rutgers.edu> DCHANG@uhccmvs.BITNET (Doreen Chang) writes:
> >Question:  Does anyone remember the title of the Harlan Ellison short story
> >on which the movie "Terminator" was initially based?
> I believe that it was from "I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream." There's
> an anthology with the same name floating around somewhere, but maybe you
> can leaf through The Essential Ellison to see if it's there.

Hey, that would have been an interesting Terminator movie script :-).
Arnold as a mute mutilated veteran...


Kent
-------------------
Kent Sandvik (UUCP: ....!apple!ksand; INTERNET: ksand@apple.com)
DISCLAIMER: Private activities on the Net.		
"Don't just do something!  Stand there!"  -- Mystery Science Theater 3000
From: millerl@wharton.upenn.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Auto-buy lists
Date: 21 Dec 92 05:47:09 GMT
Organization: Newt World Order

Some of these are long dead writers, but whenever I see something by
them that I don't yet have, and that includes shorts, I'll buy.

Robert E. Howard
Robert Anton Wilson
Michael Moorcock
Howard Phillips Lovecraft
Brian Lumley (trash, but good trash)
Clive Barker (borderline for sf&f genre)
William Gibson
Tim Powers
Glen Cook
Gene Wolfe
Jack Vance
Clark Ashton Smith
A. E. Merritt
Lord Dunsany
Dashiell Hammett (not at all sf&f genre, but still great)
A. E. Van Vogt
Robert Holdstock
Edgar Rice Burroughs

Definitely not a pretty list, now that I look on it, but at least it's
an honest one.

-- 
whoah,
+++++++++++++++++++++++23
Loren Miller                           internet: MILLERL@wharton.upenn.edu
Mediocrity is a hand rail.                         -- Baron de Montesquieu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: ngustas@hamp.hampshire.edu
Subject: Anne Mc Caffrey and computer interfaces
Organization: Hampshire College
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 13:48:44 GMT

I've just been reading _Crystal Line_ by Anne Mc Caffrey (haven't finished
it; there will probably be another post when I do) and there's one thing I
noticed that drives me nuts about all her books.
Why is everyone on a DOS-type system?
I've noticed that none of the computers in her books have a GUI-type inter-
face, which seems to me to be an anachronism.  I work for a computer company,
and GUI interfaces have become the standard;  I know very few IBMers who
use DOS anymore.  It seems to me that, especially with as sophisticated a
voice interface as her computers have, they would not need the clumsy DOS
interface.
As for the book - it's good trash, so far.  I read her _Crystal Singer_ books
as a break from the heavier stuff I read.
As always,
Your obedient servant,
Gabrielle de Lioncourt
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig)
Subject: Re: John Woods Campbell (was: Re: Political Correctness + Sci-fi)
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 02:45:42 GMT

mvp@netcom.com (Mike Van Pelt):
>Why is it that the apparant majority of people who talk about "literate
>sf" mean exclusively sf that is collectivist, totalitarian,
>anti-competent, and anti-rational? 

Avoiding the literate/non-literate classification for the nonce, there *is* 
a reason for older-style sf to be associated with more individualistic
philosophies, and it has little to do with Campbell.  Golden-age science
fiction emerged from a tradition of pulp stories of adventure and wonder,
and its target audience consisted largely of readers (typically young
readers, to start with) who had grown up with such stories.  That wasn't
a very good market for "It's really not a simple problem, and maybe we
should all make some uncomfortable compromises, and perhaps let a 
committee make some recommendations."  

-----
Dani Zweig
dani@netcom.com

   If you're going to write, don't pretend to write down.  It's going to be the
   best you can do, and it's the fact that it's the best you can do that kills
   you! -- Dorothy Parker
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: SMTP@UKCC.UKY.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Undeliverable Mail
Date: 23 Dec 92 14:55:39 GMT

The following message bounced so I am posting it to the list.  Please
excuse the inconvenience.
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
UKCC.uky.edu unable to deliver following mail to recipient(s):
    <sej5g@curry.eduschool.virginia.edu>
550 Host 'curry.eduschool.virginia.edu' Unknown

           ** Text of Mail follows **
Received: from ukcc.uky.edu by UKCC.uky.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2)
   with BSMTP id 1148; Wed, 23 Dec 92 09:55:38 EST
Received: from UKCC.uky.edu (PKRUSH01) by ukcc.uky.edu (Mailer R2.08) with
 BSMTP id 6933; Wed, 23 Dec 92 09:55:38 EST
Date:         Wed, 23 Dec 92 09:20:28 EST
From:         Pam Rush <PKRUSH01@UKCC.uky.edu>
Subject:      Re: Charles DeLint
To:           Is it Susie or Judy??? <sej5g@curry.eduschool.virginia.edu>

I really like De Lint!!!


I think De Lint is relatively popular--I know about 8-10 people who read
him and 3 people whom I introduced to him plus  one more who borrowed
my copies of the "Jack" books and took them to Mexico and never sent
them back!

I really like DeLint and am always thinking that someone will produce
some decent lit-crit on his opus.  I think it's begging for critical
commentary.

How do you feel about James Blaylock?  I'm the *only* person I know
reading all of Blaylock--and rereading it--and even those I can
usually count on to share my tastes give his books back to me unread.
Some body else must be reading them some where!  Lots of people are
reading Tim Powers and I don't see how you can read one and not the
other!

I know I don't own *all* of De Lint's published works, but I think I
usually see them, buy them, or borrow them as they are published.
OUt-of-print titles, especially mass paperbacks, are always difficult
to acquire.  Have you tried the search services of many speciality
bookstores?  I don't use that for SF but have had very good results
on finding o-p detective fiction that way.  Such bookstores ususally
advertise in appropriate magazines/journals, which in turn you can
find in a better/bigger bookstore.  And you can get international coverage.

There was a profile of De LInt in the Sept. 1987 issue of _Analog_.

Hey, I doubt I've told you anything you didn't already know, but at
least you *know* you are not alone!

Pam Rush
<pkrush01@ukcc.uky.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: elwin@gamma.phys.clemson.edu (Lawrence E. Brown)
Subject: Re: Auto-buy lists 
Reply-To: elwin@gamma.phys.clemson.edu (Lawrence E. Brown)
Organization: Clemson University
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 21:27:20 GMT


This looks like fun.  I always buy:

Gene Wolfe
Gene Wolfe
Gene Wolfe
Gene Wolfe
Gene Wolfe
Gene Wolfe
But seriously:
Gene Wolfe
J. G. Ballard
Lois McMaster Bujold (I'd been avoiding her latest (The Spirit
                      Ring) because it's the F word, but I
		      finally broke down, I've read the first chapter and
		      already seen the error of my ways, can't
		      wait to get home and read the rest)
Philip K. Dick (see my signature)


That's all I can think of right now.  Orson Scott Card used to
be on my auto-list, but I've had trouble seeing past the writer to his
work since I found out about his views on ... Oops, the FAQ says
we're not supposed to talk about that so I won't :)


--
Larry Brown                        "Philip K. Dick is dead, alas
elwin@gamma.phys.clemson.edu        Let's all queue up to kick God's ass"
Dept. of Physics and Astronomy      --Michael Bishop in _The Secret Ascension_
Clemson University                  



--
Larry Brown                        "Philip K. Dick is dead, alas
elwin@gamma.phys.clemson.edu        Let's all queue up to kick God's ass"
Dept. of Physics and Astronomy      --Michael Bishop in _The Secret Ascension_
Clemson University