HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 06:47:04 EDT
From: <DXB132@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: A4000 Limitations (for sound)?, video,...

In article <1992Sep14.092051.27306@utstat.uucp>, philip@utstat.uucp (Philip
McDunnough) says:

>The recent announcement of the A4000 doesn't mention any limitations
>with respect to sound. As I understand it the AGA graphics are coprocessed
>with a 32bit path to the chip(?). Does this mean one can move 8 bit graphics
>(and the other modes) around the screen in a snappy way? Comparable to local
>bus video on the PC or faster?

NO. The Alice chip (new Agnus) is basically the same. Same blitter, copper,
etc. However, it will probably blit slightly faster by virtue of less time
stolen by screen refresh. (All things being equal).


>The announcement mentions 8 bit sound. Is there a technical reason for not
>including 16 bit sound? Does the design of the A4000 include any limitations
>w.r.t. implementing 16 bit (or higher) sound (as, I gather the A3000 has in
>the video area)?

Don't know.

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider)
Subject: Re: A4000 at WOC
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 06:34:01 GMT

aciceran@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (A. J. Ciceran) writes:

>In article <1992Sep12.192545.16769@cco.caltech.edu> keith@cco.caltech.edu
>(Keith Allan Schneider) writes:

>>I was the one that said it crawls, and Marc was responding to what I wrote.
>>The workbench is very slow in 256 color mode.  Also, it seems to shimmer.
>>It is still useable, if you have patience.

>Based on the assumption that the A4000/AGA machine was being displayed on
>an interlaced 1960 with a limited refresh rate, how much can we attribute
>this shimmer/flicker to the monitor itself? 

Well, the lower color modes didn't shimmer...

keith
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: dnavas@oracle.uucp (David Navas)
Subject: Re: Unix for the masses, was Re: C= (Sweden) does things right!
Organization: Oracle Corporation, Redwood Shores CA
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 15:17:38 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

[The last post in which I mentioned horizontal freq., I made a total butt-head
 out of myself.  I'll try and make it up here.]

In article <1992Sep15.023342.25636@ra.msstate.edu> skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls) writes:
>In article <1992Sep15.015931.14270@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett) defecates:

How surprising, Skip responding to Marc.

>Funny, I have used the very mode that you describe and the flicker is no
>worse than a Clone using 1024x768 interlaced.  Given the ridiculous aspect

Hey, I used Prod-Interl. and I liked it.  The more I can see of my program the
better.  Of course, when you have 15page assembly functions....

I use the 72Hz 800x600 mode now.  It flickers, but it's better than the
PAL/NTSC flicker!

>Marc, if the Amiga could display 2048x2048 non-interlaced, you would be

Well, I think the point was that there were no new non-interlaced modes.
An 800x600 would be acceptable, 1024x768 would have been better.  It was
one of a few things I was disappointed to see remain in "AA" at DevCon, so
I can understand the complaint.

>You dumbass, the vertical frequency is 60Hz interlaced.  The monitor that
>I'm using is an SVGA that will do 56/60/70Hz non-interlaced and totally
>pukes if a 30Hz interlaced signal is used (NTSC).  I just switched over and
>set my screenmode to Productivity-Interlaced and the monitor may flicker,
>but it is not due to your ASSumption.

Okay, multisyncs "puke" on 15kHz signals.  They happily accept 60Hz/50Hz,
usually.  Interlacing would only confuse them if they tried to readjust
the picture on each retrace....  So anywho, it's not 30Hz that's the
problem -- Skip rightly points out that interlaced vertical freq. are still
72/70/60/50Hz, and not half thereof -- it's the 15kHz horizontal freq.
that gives them problems.  They like ~31kHz.

That said, I'm using the 800x600 mode on my Nec 4D without a problem.

[Ranting, raving, swearing deleted.]

David C. Navas						dnavas@oracle.com
Working for, but not speaking on behalf of, Oracle Corp.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: ESRLPDI@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (Ivan Ivanick)
Subject: Re: Perot
Date: 10 Sep 92 00:41:31 PDT

In article <latc84INNkr@aludra.usc.edu>, on 9 Sep 1992 19:20:52 -0700,
dleslie@aludra.usc.edu (David Leslie) writes:

> I think there are a lot of people who are glad that you are not american.
> With more americans like you(we have enough) we would probably be as
> unimportant a country as Sweeden.
>                          ^^^^^^^
>/--------------------------------------------------------------------\
>| Amiga  ///    |  U.S.C. Trojans  | Don't  | David Leslie           |
>|       ///     |     Fight On!    | Tread  |                        |
>|   \\\///      |        --        | On     | dleslie@usc.edu        |
>|    \XX/ A1000 |     Go Kings!    | Me!    |                        |
>\--------------------------------------------------------------------/
>
Please forgive him - many Americans can actually spell!
Just don't ask David where Sweden actually is, please.

Ivan I  esrlpdi@oac.mvs.ucla.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: copes@cs.curtin.edu.au (Simon Cope)
Subject: Re: A4000 at WOC
Organization: Curtin University of Technology
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 04:03:51 GMT

u894776@bruny.cc.utas.edu.au (James McCoull) writes:

>barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett) writes:

>>performs with 8 bitplanes at 640x480, and we see that it **CRAWLS**.  In fact,
>>we find that the Workbench is **UNUSABLE** in 256-color mode because it is

>Hmm CBM did take a while to give us 256 colours and from all accounts
>this new machine doesnt have much grunt in the high bandwidth modes.

Until SVGA came out C= didn't need 256 colours.  It has taken a couple of years
for them to iron the bugs out.  Thus we now have 256 colours.

>All one can hope is that CBM had their real engineers working on
>the group of machines after this one.

They are.  The top end machine they are working on had over 100x the bandwidth.
Read: FAST CHEAP 24 bit graphics.
When I say cheap I mean compared to a graphics workstation.  PC 24 bit is a
sick, cruel joke played on PC users by manufacturers who can do no more than 
COPY other peoples work, not design their own.
And if you think copying requires skill, go ask some software pirates.
Clone makers are just hardware pirates parasitically living off a few who do 
all the work.
And they forced your beloved IBM out of their own market.

>Hmm... I've been doing solid realtime window drags on my 1987
>Archimedes in 256 colour mode for quite some time now...  this new
>A4000 from CBM really would be a dissapointment at the low end
>let alone the high end.

The A4000 will blow away any Archimedes without getting out of bed.  Remember 
that AmigaDOS 3.0 is still in beta, and not finished yet.  They are still 
finishing the new graphics library.  

--
copes@cs.curtin.edu.au
From: dleslie@koh-sun1.usc.edu (David Leslie)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Perot
Date: 10 Sep 1992 16:39:27 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: koh-sun1.usc.edu

In article <1992Sep10.141037.23038@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> abs0@coos.dartmouth.edu (Kelvin Leung) writes:
>dleslie@aludra.usc.edu (David Leslie) writes:

-> I think there are a lot of people who are glad that you are not american.
-> With more americans like you(we have enough) we would probably be as
-> unimportant a country as Sweeden.

>Just curious, no offense...

>would you mind clarifying what exactly do you mean by important countries?

>I really want to know.

>Yours Sincerely,
>Kelvin

	How about 'important' is a having an impact on the world? Or
making a difference in the history of mankind?

/--------------------------------------------------------------------\
| Amiga  ///    |  U.S.C. Trojans  | Live   | David Leslie           |
|       ///     |     Fight On!    | Fast-  |                        |
|   \\\///      |        --        | Die    | dleslie@usc.edu        |
|    \XX/ A1000 |     Go Kings!    | Young- |                        |
\--------------------------------------------------------------------/
From: James_Hastings-Trew@telepro.UUCP (James Hastings-Trew)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Unreal demo!
Distribution: world
Date: 5 Sep 92 00:05:15 CST
Organization: TelePro Technologies

In a message dated Fri  4 Sep 92 22:09, Dalbec@clavin.eng.sun.com (gabe Dal
wrote:

>
> The MODs in hardwired alone beat Unreal's butt.
>
 DD> All this talk about hardwired made me finally download it, but it
 DD> doesn't
 DD> work on the A3000.  I have tried 1.3 w/ degrader, but it doesn't
 DD> work.
 DD> Does anyone have any way of getting this demo running on the A3k?

 DD> Thanks,
 DD> -Gabe Dalbec
 DD> A3000-25-157-10

I have an A2500. I heard about Hardwired on here too, and FREQ'd it from
another board. 

1> it REQUIRES PAL
2> When run with the warp drives (68030) engaged, it comes up with "THIS
DEMO DONT LIKE AXEL"
3> When run under impulse power (68000), the demo runs, but only up to a
certain point, beyond which it will not continue.


However, having said that... this is an incredible demo. It starts out in a
cinematic fashion aboard a space station, beautiful graphics, great
majestic space music, the bleep of an intruder alert...

There are some incredible effects in this demo - Elastic spline vectors, 3D
spline vectors, plasma-drawing bobs, morphing glens vectors with 48
simultaneous faces, a metallic vertical 3d twisting scroll-text, 14,400
points being animated every frame with motion blurring (that part totally
blew me away!), and some very inventive transition effects.

The part where the demo quits (on my machine) is where the screen becomes a
standard horizontal star scroll, pulls back to reveal that "space" is
contained in a vector rectangle, zooms in on the end of the box, and we
then drop down to a checkered platform. At that point, nothing else happens
on my machine, but the great stern music continues playing.

If anyone has seen the rest of this demo, please let me know what happens
next. I am going to take it down to the dealer tomorrow and try it on their
A500...


-- Via DLG Pro v0.992

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: terjem@stud.cs.uit.no (Terje Normann Marthinussen)
Subject: Re: Random tidbits regarding WOC & A4000
Organization: University of Tromsoe
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 18:50:44 GMT

In article <1992Sep14.150843.7195@javelin.sim.es.com>, blgardne@javelin.sim.es.com (Dances With Bikers) writes:
>peter@NeoSoft.com (Peter da Silva) writes:
>>In article <25799@castle.ed.ac.uk> marks@castle.ed.ac.uk (Mark Steyn) writes:
>
>>> The A4000 has a PCMIA interface.
>
>No it doesn't. There's a really fuzzy IFF picture floating around that
>claims to be the A4000, but it's a complete fabrication. (Things like
>a 'Ramona' chip, card interface, not enough drive bays, no keyswitch,
>etc.)
>
>>Oh, so now it's IDE and PCMCIA instead of SCSI.

[ Stuff deleted ]

>As far as PCMICA or PCMCIA or PCMCACIPCPAIMCA or whatever it is goes,
>(could they possibly have come up with a _less_ memorable acronym? :-)
>it could be an interesting addition if you had a portable/palmtop that
>used the same cards. But the only thing I've got that uses cards is the
>HP-48SX calculator, and it is non-standard. Oh well.
>-- 
>Blaine Gardner @ Evans & Sutherland  blgardne@javelin.sim.es.com  BIX:blaine_g
>580 Arapeen Drive, SLC, Utah 84108           Favorite road signs:
>Dumper of Dirtbikes #46             FJ1200   Winding Road Next 77 Miles
>My other motorcycle is a Quadracer           Caution: Passing Areas Not Marked

Well I just read a couple of days ago that Apple would put PCMCIA into
some of their machines...

If this actually spreads into a cross platform bus/interface standard this 
might actually get quite interesting.....

Terje Marthinussen
terjem@stud.cs.uit.no
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: ggiles@cie.uoregon.edu (Gregg Giles)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Random tidbits regarding WOC & A4000
Date: 12 Sep 92 07:34:31 GMT
Article-I.D.: nntp.1992Sep12.073431.5875
Organization: University of Oregon Campus Information Exchange

In article <18rh75INNpga@aludra.usc.edu> dleslie@aludra.usc.edu (David Leslie) writes:
>
>Second, there still may be 32bit SCSI on the motherboard. They are 
>still working on the scsi, and havn't decided whether to put it
>in a zorro or what.  The marketing guy said that they very well
>might put it on the MB.

   I think (IMHO) that you'll see them put it on the motherboard eventually.
The press release has only been out for about 6 hours, and the biggest comment
I've seen so far is about the abscence of SCSI. 

>The head of marketing said that when the A3000(1 product) came out,
>they had 23 marketing people. Now, he said, they have 23 new products,
>and 3 people to do the marketing.

   Well at least those 3 people seem to know what the word "marketing" means.
<Grin><Wink><Wink><Smile>


-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gregg Giles (Dynamix, Inc.)                 BIX: ggiles 
All opinions expressed are my own.          Internet: ggiles@cie.uoregon.edu
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: etxansk@garbod20.ericsson.se (Anders Skelander)
Subject: Re: Music on computers Re: Unreal demo!
Organization: Ericsson
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 09:21:20 GMT

ralph@bugend.edvina.se (Staffan Vilcans) writes:

>das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A) writes:

>> >Why call it "Euro-synth"? Why do people say "Euro-demos"?
>> >Is it perhaps because americans aren't creative (or competent) enough 
>> >to make demos and music?
>> 
>> No, because the Amiga is so much more common in Europe than in the US.  Or
>> at least Europe is where they started coming from?

>It makes you think doesn't it? Over here it's only called "demos" bet 
>in the US it's called "Euro-demos".
>This suggest that there never will be a think like a US-demo...

 There were lots of incredible demos for the old Atari 400/800
computers, all the good stuff came from the US. 

 I've gotten the impression that today, the most impressive demos
are created in Europe. European action games are better than
their US counterparts, or perhaps it's only that fast action games
are hard to program on the PC? (I mean, they don't do dedicated
Amiga/ST software any more in the US, do they?)

 When it comes to strategy/adventure games, American software    
houses reign supreme. They've always been better. (Infocom,
Interplay Productions, Sierra, Lucasfilm etc.)
  
> [stuff deleted]

 Anders Skelander, Sweden

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: dvoelker@leland.Stanford.EDU (David Voelker)
Subject: C= shoots self in foot yet again
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 92 00:05:41 GMT

     It's been three months since I ordered the 2.04 upgrade, and the
damn thing is still on backorder.  There are none to be found anywhere;
Commodore keeps promising them and not delivering them.  Waiting lists
continue to grow at retailers across the country.
     What's a more stupid business practice than waiting too long to
update your operating system?  Announcing an upgrade and then frustrating
your customers by not being able to fill demand.
     SCREW COMMODORE!


     
-- 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
|   Dave Voelker      Stanford University     dvoelker@leland.stanford.edu  |
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
From: andyw@orion.uucp
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Marc Barrett: an Amiga pioneer (was Re: More AmigaWorld Lies)
Distribution: na
Date: 8 Sep 92 11:42:21 EST

In article <53062@dime.cs.umass.edu> barrett@gleep.cs.umass.edu (Daniel Barrett) writes:

> 	Oh wait... NOW I understand why Marc is an Amiga pioneer!
> If it weren't for him, nobody would have proposed the creation of
> comp.sys.amiga.advocacy.
> 

One of the alternative names when the group was first proposed was

comp.sys.amiga.bitch_and_whine_like_a_baby_but_dont_do_anything_constructive

for just this reason. :-)

Although Kent Paul Dolan who co-ordinated the group restructuring liked the 
name, most file systems would have puked on it.  I thought it was kinda Zen myself.


Andyw
From: skip@cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Utilities Unlimited vs NewTek's cottage industry paradigm
Date: 15 Sep 92 15:13:16 GMT
Organization: University of Mississippi, Dept. of Computer Science

In article <1686389AF.SBACIR2@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu> SBACIR2@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu writes:
>In article <1992Sep11.102952.1039@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>
>nwickham@nyx.cs.du.edu (Neal Wickham) writes:
> 
>>In our conversation, this NewTek person said that everyone asks:
>>"Why doesn't NewTek grow?"  But then said in a perturbed tone:
>>"...we can't find creative people.  Creative people are hard to
>>come by.  You just can't find creative people these days..."
> 
>  Consider Amiga vs Mac vs IBM market sizes.  It would take a very unusual
>creative person to want to develop for the Amiga.  The market share is so
>small.  For the same amount of effort a very creative person can develop
>a MAC or IBM product which will provide much more monetary return than an
>Amiga product.  Just look at the Mac and IBM magazines.  One of their mags
>has more ads than you see in AW and AC for an entire year - that's market
>power.

Luckily there are quite a few of these unusual creative persons around.
While the business software for the Amiga may be lacking, there are some
very nice applications available for video, audio, graphics, and other
creative uses.  I make a living writing programs for the PC, but we use
Amigas and Toasters for all of the image processing and graphics as there
are no equivalents for the PC.  Given time, PCs will have a real OS and
hardware suitable for such applications, but it may be a while.

>If you look at WordPerfect Corporation's decision to leave the Amiga
>market, you see this demonstrated.  If the market existed WP would have
>upgraded WP 4.1 to outperform Final Copy or ProWrite in GUI.  As it is
>it outperforms them and the others in everything but GUI.
>d.GAP

Why does everyone bring up WordPerfect all the time?  If you are going to
use a computer primarily for wordprocessing, spreadsheets, and that sort 
of thing, then by all means get a PC.  Those machines are well-suited for
such mundane applications just as Amigas are well-suited for more creative
applications such as audio and video.

Skip Sauls
skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu
From: jonathan@cats.ucsc.edu (Jonathan Cano)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: 72Hz Refresh rate
Date: 16 Sep 1992 02:46:43 GMT
Organization: University of California, Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: si.ucsc.edu


tdenbo@dwp.la.ca.us (Tom Denbo) writes:

>The 72 HZ refresh sounds interesting.  What resolutions does it run in?
>(Your eyes will thank you for the faster refresh).

No kidding!!!  I am sensitive to flourescent lights and other things
that flicker (ever so slightly :^( ) at 60Hz - like my C=1084 monitor.

I'm interested in hearing more about the screen resolutions *in 
conjunction* with their maximum refresh rates ...

for example: can a A4000 do 800x600 with 64 colors at 72Hz? can it
do it at 66Hz or 60Hz ...

--Jonathan

>       //     Tom Denbo                   111 No. Hope St.  Rm 732
-- 
============================================
| Jonathan Cano             |     //   _   |
| jonathan@cats.ucsc.edu    | \\ //   (_)  |
| 8kyu (+- 2kyu)            |  \X/     |<  |
============================================
From: andy@cbmvax.commodore.com (Andy Finkel)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Lynx (was Re: More Jeff Young Rambings)
Date: 9 Sep 92 20:45:08 GMT
Organization: Flying Cat, Inc.

> <etxansk.715941983@garbod20>
Reply-To: andy@cbmvax.commodore.com (Andy Finkel)
Followup-To: 
Distribution: 
Organization: Flying Cat, Inc.
Keywords: rubbish,utter rubbish,total rubbish

In article <etxansk.715941983@garbod20> etxansk@garbod20.ericsson.se (Anders Skelander) writes:
> I was thinking of Shiraz Shivdji (hope I spelled his name correctly),
>I thought the C64 was "his" child, as the Atari ST is.

I forgot about Shiraz.  No, the C64 couldn't be considered his baby.
It was definitely the Al and Bob show.  Shiraz was doing other things
back then.  He was more involved in the 'high end' machines.

> It's nice to get the real story, though.
>
> Anders Skelander
> 

			andy
-- 
andy finkel		{uunet|rutgers|amiga}!cbmvax!andy

"OS/2 is the operating system for the next thousand great applications." -
 one of the things Bill Gates probably wishes he hadn't said.


Any expressed opinions are mine; but feel free to share.
I disclaim all responsibilities, all shapes, all sizes, all colors.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: ggg@kepler.unh.edu (Gregory G Greene)
Subject: Re: Random tidbits regarding WOC & A4000
Organization: University of New Hampshire  -  Durham, NH
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 14:50:26 GMT

>>	He's dreaming if he thinks the A4000 with IDE is competition for the
>>  various 486 boxes out there that offer much more for the same price.
>
>You would have to compare the A4000 to an EISA 486 with a good graphics
>card and sound card.  Most 1meg SVGA cards do not have the HiColor DAC
>for more than 256 colors.  Of course, the 486 system will be a bit cheaper,
>but the A4000 is not a clone.
>
>-- Gerald

	There are quite a few SVGA cards out there that do more then 256
   colors, take a look around.  If you want to compare EISA systems with 
   the A4000 take a look at Gateway 2000's 486 50mhz system.  It has a lot
   more for basically the same price.

							G.Greene
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: derek@cgrg.ohio-state.edu (Dariusz Bolski)
Subject: A4000 memory architecture?
Keywords: Memory
Organization: OSU Advanced Computing Center for the Arts and Design
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1992 04:00:17 GMT

Could someone (yes, I HAVE Dave H. in mind :-) describe memory architecture
of A4000? What type it is, how is it accessed, cycles, speeds, wait states?

Thank you in advance,

Dariusz Bolski


-- 
Dariusz Bolski     Ohio Supercomputer Center, IBM POWER Visualization System
Systems Programmer Ohio State University , Columbus U.S.
                   The Advanced Computing Center For The Arts And Design
e-mail: derek@cgrg.ohio-state.edu  derek@osc.edu
From: kar5@po.CWRU.Edu (Kevin A. Roll)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: aga chipset for amiga
Date: 14 Sep 1992 16:02:36 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: kar5@po.CWRU.Edu (Kevin A. Roll)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc12.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, ggiles@cie.uoregon.edu (Gregg Giles) says:

>WHAT mean yo DODOHEADS that AMAZING 3000 CANT BE IN 3000 PUT! EVEN MIGHTY ATARI
>put new ZGA CHIPS into 2600! COMMODEDOOR not even fit MYTHICAL AGA into C64!
>COMPANY HEADS should be SHOT for TREASON! They BETRAY USERS! ATARI WILL RULE
>UNIVERSE! I am LOQUTUS! SPAM! SPAM! SPAM! BOHOHOHO! CRY BABIES! BLATHER...
>BLATHER! BLATHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hey, change you diaper, man.


-- 
AMIGA///|   Zeta Psi    |  WRUW 91.1 FM   | 
    /// |---------------|   Rat's Nest    | Yeah, whatever.
\\\///  | New Ministry  |   Wed 2-5 AM    |
 \XX/   |   Album !!!   | Industrial/Talk |
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy