HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: clc@kepler.unh.edu (Christian L Claiborn)
Subject: Re: Trilogies and Consistancy
Organization: University of New Hampshire  -  Durham, NH
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 16:00:15 GMT

In article <188gfsINNk8m@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> ca572@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark L. Stackpole) writes:
>	It's a _good_ thing that these writers are evolving
>and not repeating their act over and over. Especially in
>comparison with the authors who do maintain a consistent tone
>in their series: Piers Anthony, Stephen Donaldson, David
>Eddings...   (*choke*)
I've always felt that the 'cure' for this sort of writing was to place all
of these writers in one room and force them to read book 6 of each others' 
latest series.  I can just picture Margaret Weis bletching in the corner, 
pleading on her hands and knees to be allowed to stop with "Vale of the Vole."

Of course, these writers write for a younger crowd in general, the same kind
who pick up the "Sweet Valley High" but nerdier.  While their counterparts
in the mainstream watch Beverly Hills 90210 till they can name every single
bra Brenda's ever worn, the audience of Piers Anthony watched Star Trek so
religiously that they were actually able to tell when Worf changed head 
makeup.  It's a phase.  They'll grow out of it, someone will hand them
"Press Enter" by Varley or "A Boy and His Dog" by Ellison and their lives
will change forever.


					Christian
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Christian Longshore Claiborn | clc@kepler.unh.edu | Friend of the Great     |
| Chuck Woolery's Protege      | clc@gloin.unh.edu  | Eater of Souls          |
| Future UNH Sysadmin          | clc@bifur.unh.edu  | Ask about group rates!  |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|"It was all very well to say 'Drink Me,' but the wise little Alice wasn't    |
| going to do THAT in a hurry."  -- The Reverend Charles Dodgson              |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: aaron@space.ualberta.ca (Aaron Humphrey)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Piers Anthony
Date: 14 Sep 92 16:40:58 GMT
Reply-To: aaron@space.ualberta.ca
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

Never mind.  I'm too poor a flamer for this to be doing any good, and a few
people(Christian Claiborn in particular)are only too ready for a flamewar.

I don't expect to convince everyone that Piers Anthony is a great author who is
merely underappreciated.  I don't even expect to convince everyone that he has
done anything good since On A Pale Horse.

But I >would< like to convince everyone that we need not keep mentioning Piers
Anthony as if he were, as mjd so eloquently put it, "a trash-seping bilge
monster who can't write".  (Some of you may thing that's a misspelling, but mjd
is an expert in Middle English, so I trust he's quoting Chaucer of something.)

Some people, including the person who made the recent Piers Anthony post, have
sites that >don't get< alt.fan.piers-anthony.  (Not alt.fan.anthony as I
previously stated.)  Should we make this group rec.arts.sf.written.except.
piers-anthony?  Or add to the charter that no discussion of Piers Anthony will
be tolerated without jeering and ridicule?  Then perhaps you might be
justified.  Some of you already feel justified, because "it's just an opinion."
Maybe I should start making snide remarks about Heinlein, or whoever else I can
think of, just to see if I can drive people out to make an alt.fan.heinlein.
Hmmm?

Anyway--why don't you anti-Anthony people just put the appropriate line into
your rec.arts.sf.written killfiles, if you can't stand watching discussion of
his work?  And post your snide remarks to junk or alt.flame or alt.dev.null or
somewhere?  Please?

--
---Alfvaen(Canadian SF Quasi-Activist)
"You better hope and pray that you're gonna awake
 Back in your own world..."  ---Shakespear's Sister
Current Album--Weird Al Yankovic:In 3-D
Current Read--Robert Heinlein:The Past Through Tomorrow
Xref: sparky rec.arts.sf.written:11786 rec.arts.sf.science:2824 sci.bio:3099
From: parmentier@iowasp.physics.uiowa.edu
Subject: Re: PC Hodgell update
Organization: Department of Physics and Astronomy, University of Iowa
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 19:28:10 GMT

In article <1992Sep13.034325.26991@rp.CSIRO.AU>, etroup@robin.rp.csiro.au (Euan Troup, Australia Telescope - Parkes Observatory) writes:
> In article <1992Sep11.135404.1@iowasp.physics.uiowa.edu>, parmentier@iowasp.physics.uiowa.edu writes...
>>
>>       P.C. Hodgell still does not have a publisher for the third book
>>in her series.  DAW has had the book, trying to decide whether to print
>>it, for almost a year.
>
>         Could you post the address to the net as well? I'd like to give them a
> piece of my mind for taking so long, although as DAW aren't publishing for the
> Australia/UK market, it probably won't matter.

	DAW Books
	375 Hudson St.
	New York, NY	10014-3658

	Patricia Hodgell lives in Oshkosh, Wisconsin, and spent four of the
last seven years writing a PhD thesis on the sources of _Ivanhoe_.  Since
finishing that she has been living off savings trying to get book three
published.  I've been to two readings from the book ( one at Chicon, one
at Magicon ) and I would put what I've heard somewhere between the first
two in quality.  She doesn't get to cons much for monetary reasons.  Magicon
was to be her last big trip until she gets a source of income, hopefully
being this book.  A signed first printing of _God Stalk_ was for sale at
Magicon for $100.  You should have seen the look on her face when she heard
that one.

-- 
"I'm not a programmer, but I play one at work." _/_
 _, .__  _  _,  _,     _   _, .__  ____  _  __  / o _ .__
(_)_/ (_(/_(_)_(_)_   |_)_(_|_/ (_/ / /_(/_/ /_/_/_(/_/ (__
 /|         /|  /|   /|      ___ Gregg  Parmentier ___
|/         |/  |/    |/ parmentier@iowasp.physics.uiowa.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: gamiddle@math.uwaterloo.ca (Guy Middleton)
Subject: Carve the Sky, by Alexander Jablokov
Organization: MFCF
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 22:37:20 GMT

I just finished Carve the Sky, by Alexander Jablokov (who is he?  I've never
heard of him before -- this is a first novel).

It's set in the 24th century, at which time, after a long period of war and
decay on Earth, civilization has spread to much of the Solar system.  There
are two major political alignments -- the Union of States and Nations,
comprising the Earth, Moon, and Mars; and the Technics, who inhabit the moons
of the outer planets, and whose society is warped and strange.

The book is the story of a quest for a missing piece of art, and research
into the last days of the century's greatest sculptor.  Very well written,
with convincing characters, believeble technology, and (to me, at least) a
healthy respect for art and artists.  Well worth reading.

 -Guy Middleton, University of Waterloo		gamiddleton@math.waterloo.edu
		(+1 519 885 1211 x3472)		gamiddleton@math.uwaterloo.ca
From: dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: New SF Releases
Date: 11 Sep 92 18:11:56 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

ECZ5TAN@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (Morgan):
>Here is a list of some of the releases for this Fall.

Thank you.

>Lackey, Mercedes and Ellen Guon. Wing Commander I: Freedom Flight (Baen, 
>   $4.99, pb, Dec) Computer games make the most interesting books. Wouldn't 
>   you agree?

Not necessarily. :)  But I would like to register a grudging admiration
for the people on the games end who thought of the idea of marketing their 
product by commissioning name authors to write tie-ins.

>Pournell, Jerry et al. Bloodfeuds (Baen, $4.99, pb, Jan) 1st War World

Fifth War-World, isn't it?  I was taken by the original idea behind 
War-World, in which the inhabitants of Haven, over a period of centuries,
defeat the Saurons while, in many respects, becoming what they fight.
It turns out, however, to be another never-ending shared world.  That's
too bad, because such efforts are foredoomed:  They keep coming out
until they are too deep in the cycle of weaker authors/weaker stories/
lessened readership to be sustained.

>Shatner, William. Tek Vengeance (Ace, $19.95, hb, Nov) Hold me back from
>   rushing out to get this one! ;-)

Hmmm... Maybe I can help.  It stands to reason that anyone abut to
rush out and pay twenty dollars for this could be disuaded by the
argument that getting this book will take away precious time that could
be spent rereading Piers Anthony's "The Color of Her Panties"...

-----
Dani Zweig
dani@netcom.com

Roses red and violets blew
  and all the sweetest flowres that in the forrest grew -- Edmund Spenser
From: carrot@bear.stonemarche.org (Little red-headed girl)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re:  Good writing (was Re: Piers Anthony)
Distribution: world
Date: 15 Sep 92 18:47:14 EDT

In article <1992Sep15.021629.6667@math.ucla.edu> troly@redwood.math.ucla.edu (Bret Jolly) writes:
>In article <1992Sep14.224831.12090@spss.com> markrose@spss.com 
>(Mark Rosenfelder) writes:
>>Authors may also want to edify, to outrage, to disturb, to puzzle, to 
>>challenge, to indulge themselves, to create pity and terror.  Is your
>>main reaction to Joyce or Kafka or Ellison that you feel "entertained"?
>                                    ^^^^^^^
>
>   What the hell is Ellison doing in this list?  Are you yanking us?
>Or have you never read Joyce or Kafka?
>

Excuse me sir- I think he meant Ralph Ellison, a black author from
the sixties who wrote a book entitled _Invisible_Man_, about how it
felt to be a black man living in Harlem... It is very thoughtfully
written and also thought-provoking. More similar to Dostoyevsky 
or Gogol, perhaps.

	As for criteria of a good book- books I like either entertain
well or are thought-provoking in some way. Not all of them are well
written, but then Alice Walker and Mark Twain did that on purpose. :)

(Incidentally, I did a paper my senior year of high school comparing
_Paradise_Lost_ with the _Incarnations_of_Immortality_ series, and
redeived an A. However, I will admit my teacher had only my description
of the series (books 1-5) to go on.)
--
+--------------------------+----------------------------------------------+
|	carrot		   |	carrot@bear.stonemarche.org               |
+--------------------------+----------------------------------------------+ 
|	"'The piano is not a machine," that powerful inhuman voice droned.|
|  'To me, yes. I can translate the notes into sounds at a glance [...] I |
| can also grasp [...] that this... music is not for robots. It is for    |
| man. To me it is easy, yes... It was not meant to be easy.'"            |
| 	"Virtuoso," by Herbert Goldstone                                  |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: ccmj@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Claire Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Upcoming in June
Date: 14 Sep 92 15:30:42 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Edinburgh

In article <9209131036.AA50205@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU>, lhb6v@FARADAY.CLAS.VIRGINIA.EDU (Laura Hayes Burchard) writes:
> >Duane, Diane, The Door Into Sunset, Tor HC, Mar
> >	I can't wait that long!
> 
> Want.  Want *now*.  Want _Door into Starlight_ before the end of
> the millenium, too.  Except that it's probably going to be really
> depressing, as I suspect a good portion of our cast isn't going
> to make it to the end.
> 
When she couldn't even bring herself to kill off Sunspark in the first
books I don't think she has the nerve to kill anyone much off.
Logically you are right though with all those flame holders due
to die young and all those comments about the Kings of Arlen dying
``in harness''...but surely Freelorn has to leave an heir and isn't
going to leave an uninitiated baby behind after what he went through.


-- 
Claire
ccmj@dcs.ed.ac.uk
(I don't know why I bother with a signature really, all the information
 in it appears (more concisely) in the header right before my eyes.)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: jwenn@world.std.com (John C Wenn)
Subject: 1992 Hugo Award Winners
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 05:16:05 GMT

Well, since nobody has posted it yet, here's a copy of the Hugo
announcement taken from Compuserve.  So any mistakes are their fault! :)

/John

arachibutyrophobiathefearthatpeanutbutterwillsticktotheroofofyourmouth-ly

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Message: #345145, S/16  Conventions/Fandom
Date:   Sat, Sep 5, 1992 11:58:20 PM
Subject: 1992 Hugo Award Winners
From:   Dave Ratti 72461,3615
To:     ALL


 1992 HUGO AWARD WINNERS

 Best Novel:    Lois McMaster Bujold    _Barrayar_ (Baen)
 Best Novella: Nancy Kress "Beggars in Spain" (IASFM)
 Best Novellette:       Isaac Asimov    "Gold" (Analog)
 Best Short Story:      Geoffrey A. Landis      "A Walk in the Sun"     (IASFM)
 Best Non-Fiction Book: Charles Addams  _The World of Charles Addams_ (Knopf)
 Best Original Artwork: Michael Whelan  cover of _The Summer Queen_
 Best Dramatic Presentation:    _Terminator 2_
 Best Professional Editor:      Gardner Dozois
 Best Professional Artist:      Michael Whelan
 Best Semiprozine:      _Locus_, Charles N. Brown
 Best Fanzine:  _Mimosa_, Dick and Nicki Lynch
 Best Fan Writer:       Dave Langford
 Best Fan Artist:       Brad Foster

 John W. Campbell Award:        Ted Chiang

 Gryphon Award: Eleanora Sabin
        Honor Book:     Terry McGarry

[Navigator: Getting thread from message 345151]

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: 10726446@eng2.eng.monash.edu.au (LAU WAI KUEN)
Subject: eric frank russell
Keywords: books
Organization: Faculty of Engineering, Monash University 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 00:41:08 GMT


  Yo!  Does anyone know if the book 'Next of Kin' by Eric Frank Russell
is still in print.  A friend swears the book is brilliant, but I can't
find the damn thing _anywhere_.  It's beginning to get on my nerves,
and I've got a feeling the book is out of print (since E.F.R. is
dead and not that well known).

Hal
From: lnh@soliton.physics.arizona.edu (sometimes a Wombat)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Trilogies and Consistancy
Date: 4 Sep 92 22:47:13 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Society for the Appreciation of Janni Lee Simner

And then there's Tepper's True Games series, where by the 8th and 9th
books (don't worry, 3 trilogies and no more) she is actively
contradicting things -- major things -- in the first trilogy.  Like
events seen in both have changed.

	Larry "Ah well" Hammer
--

                               | "Absence diminishes small loves and increases
LNH@albert.physics.arizona.edu | great ones, as the wind blows out the candle 
insanity needs no disclaimer   | and blows up the bonfire." --La Rochefoucauld
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: curtis@cs.berkeley.edu (Curtis Yarvin)
Subject: Re: Postmodern SF
Organization: CS Dept. Snakepit - Do Not Feed.
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 03:57:19 GMT

In article <ONEIL.92Sep6230740@husc10.harvard.edu> oneil@husc10.harvard.edu (John O'Neil) writes:
>In article <1992Sep2.161949.10142@tinton.ccur.com> cjh@tinton.ccur.com (Christopher J. Henrich) writes:
>
>   This *may* be a subtle strategy, but it may *also* be the mark of
>   slipshod work.  It is a classic con game to promote inferior stuff as
>   illustrating some prestigious but poorly understood critical theory
>   or new movement. Examples from about 20 years ago, in my opinion,
>   include _Beyond Apollo_ by Barry Malzberg and _Report From
>   Probability A_ by Brian Aldiss.  Two extremely tedious novels, both
>   advertised as showpieces of avant garde technique.
>
>The thing that's tedious is your holier-than-thou post.

Physician...

>Most of them mistake their limited understanding of literature for the
>truth, and blast anything they can't understand with the label 'tedious.'
>And then they pat themselves on the back for being such clever guys, 'cause
>they read SCIENCE FICTION.  Get a real life!

M-r SCIENCE FICTION  LITERATURE
M-r literature  science fiction

"Most of them mistake their limited understanding of science fiction for the
truth, and blast anything they can't understand with the label 'tedious.'
And then they pat themselves on the back for being such clever guys, 'cause
they read LITERATURE.  Get a real life!"

Doesn't sound much better either way.

Here's a curious question for the two of you: how do you define
"the truth"?

c
From: plutchak@pilsner.geo.brown.edu (Joel Plutchak)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Glen Cook's next Black Company Book
Date: 15 Sep 1992 13:54:08 GMT
Organization: Brown University Planetary Geology
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: pilsner.geo.brown.edu

In article <ingram.716504230@dirac> ingram@dirac.phys.washington.edu (Doug Ingram) writes:
>                          THE BLACK COMPANY
>                            by Glen Cook
...
>...this series ranks right up
>there with Brust's Vlad Taltos series as one of my all-time favorites...

   And if you found Brust's stuff as puerile as I did, read Cook
anyway.  It's *much* better (IMHO, natch).  Except for that last
line, good review-- makes me want to go home and read the series
again.
--
Joel Plutchak, Research Programmer/Analyst
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: msmith@beta.tricity.wsu.edu (Mark Smith)
Subject: Re: All the Weyrs of Pern
Organization: Washington State University Tri-Cities, Richland
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 04:10:33 GMT

In article <d7nny2h.dani@netcom.com> dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig) writes:
>jml12@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Jonathan M Lennox):
>>>As weak an understanding of science as McCaffrey's own is also an
>>>advantage. [...]  Her computers, for example,
>>>are either artificial superintelligences or pc's running DOS.
>
>>  I think it was decided on alt.fan.pern that the AIVAS was a VMS
>>machine...not even DOS requires you to explicitly say "RUN".
>>
>>  This explains a lot about the AIVAS, of course.  :-)
>
>But do VMS programs have .EXE extensions?  (Of course, the starships
>were built a number of centuries in our future, and VMS may have 
>evolved... :)

AHH, but we have to keep backwards compatability!!!  They may be running
on 1 megabit hardware (1 megabit words) but the software is still 32
bit!!  IF it's VMS.
From: ca572@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark L. Stackpole)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: The Doomsday Book
Date: 11 Sep 1992 15:50:03 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


All I mean by 'feminist' is relating to women, not the political
connotations of the word. The story makes an unsettling 
observation, from the female point of view, of how men perceive
intercourse (this is being read on a public access UNIX) and what
gives them pleasure: dominance and subjugation of someone weaker.
By all means, read this story: "nastiest feminist" are words of
ecstatic praise. The most recent reprinting is in _Future on
Fire_ ed. O.S. Card.
I hope I was oblique enough above to avoid giving a ***Spoiler**
to "All My Darling Daughters". If not, appologies in advance.
Mark Stackpole   pacnet@rocky.claremont.edu
From: Kurt.Bond@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Kurt Bond)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Lovecraft: Influenced by "King in Yellow"
Keywords: Lovecraft, R.W. Chambers, King in Yellow
Date: 5 Sep 92 14:10:05 GMT
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service

The question of whether H.P.Lovecraft was influenced by "The King in
Yellow" was discussed a month or two back in alt.horror.  Although some
commentary on HPL states that he was heavily influenced by it, there is
also evidence (found in his letters, and I think it is in the published
collection of them, though I've not looked it up myself) that he had
invented the Necronomicon and developed most of his important themes
before he'd read "The King in Yellow".  As for the question of where
`Hastur' comes from, Chambers apparently got many of the names (but not
much, if any, else) or his mythology from Ambrose Bierce's writings,
including Hastur.  

Some other authors use elements from Chambers in their work. Lawrence
Watt-Evans first four books were a fantasy series inspired by "The King
in Yellow", for instance.  I've never been able to figure out if the
`Hastur' in M.Z. Bradley's Darkover novel is related to that of Chambers
or Bierce.
--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
From: steinly@topaz.ucsc.edu (Steinn Sigurdsson)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Dreamer Fithp
Date: 10 Sep 92 02:34:31 GMT
	<1992Sep8.173403.23735@newshost.unh.edu> <1030@tdat.teradata.COM>
	<1992Sep10.013809.369@ichips.intel.com>
Distribution: usa
Organization: Lick Observatory/UCO
NNTP-Posting-Host: topaz.ucsc.edu
In-reply-to: markg@pdx804's message of 10 Sep 92 01:38:09 GMT

In article <1992Sep10.013809.369@ichips.intel.com> markg@pdx804 (Mark Gonzales) writes:

   In article <1030@tdat.teradata.COM> swf@tdat.teradata.com (Stanley Friesen) writes:
   >[...]  Pournell and Niven have made reference to this little
   >advisory group several times in speeches to fan groups.
   >[...]
   >They were, according to Pournell anyway, a major factor in starting a
   >certain low key space project the government is funding (*not* through
   >NASA either).  [And last I heard it was still active].

   I seem to remember that Niven claimed that Star Wars was his idea (in
   N-space).

Ah, that would be eminently unlikely. "Star Wars" was certainly pushed
hard by Pournelle, and the current cycle was pushed by Gen
Abrahamson's group (High Frontier's (II)) on Reagan with the help
of Teller et al - but the basic concepts date back to the late
50's or early 60's... and Niven knows that - I'd be eminently
surprised if he could claim any credit for the current generation
of proposals (of course if you mean the movie, I'd recommend suing
Lucas, now... ;-) 

time to dig out my copy of N-Space...

|  Steinn Sigurdsson	|I saw two shooting stars last night		|
|  Lick Observatory	|I wished on them but they were only satellites	|
| steinly@lick.ucsc.edu |Is it wrong to wish on space hardware?		|
| "standard disclaimer"	|I wish, I wish, I wish you'd care - B.B. 1983	|
From: seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu (Sea Wasp)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Good writing (was Re: Piers Anthony)
Date: 15 Sep 92 18:40:16 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh
Originator: seawasp@unixd2.cis.pitt.edu

In article <1992Sep15.181541.5737@spss.com> markrose@spss.com (Mark Rosenfelder) writes:
>In article <jWt-lQA@engin.umich.edu> rcj@engin.umich.edu (R o d Johnson) writes:
>>In article <1992Sep15.021629.6667@math.ucla.edu> troly@redwood.math.ucla.edu (Bret Jolly) writes:
>>>In article <1992Sep14.224831.12090@spss.com> markrose@spss.com 
>>>(Mark Rosenfelder) writes:

	(boy, I hope those attributions are right... saw this one too
late to find the original...)

>>>>Authors may also want to edify, to outrage, to disturb, to puzzle, to 
>>>>challenge, to indulge themselves, to create pity and terror.  Is your
>>>>main reaction to Joyce or Kafka or Ellison that you feel "entertained"?

	Nope, my reaction to Joyce, Kafka, and Ellision (Harlan) is that
I generally get annoyed or bored. I've read some Joyce, a lot of Kafka, and
some Harlan Ellison. The only Ellison I really liked was Ellison as 
seriously overhauled and refinished by Roddenberry.

	I feel that the author's FIRST duty is to entertain. If he/she
can manage to include education or thought-provoking material in the
work AFTER managing the entertainment part, well and good. That's fine.
But if the entertainment requirement isn't met, the author has already
made a serious error.


                                 Sea Wasp
                                   /^\
                                   ;;;