From: kat@doe.carleton.ca (Kathiravan Krishnamurthi)
Subject: Re: Gandhi statue in Villupuram blown up
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 17:46:23 GMT

In <1993Jan29.011052.1@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au> cen466p@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au (S. Parthasarhathy) writes:

>i agree with u. even in science, people [not me] say even albert einstein [in
>indian context, sir c.v.raman] is not as great as he is portrayed. recognition
>is something different, capacity to do things is something different. it is
>pure luck, man ! but that should never be used to demean ones' achievement.  in
>classical music, some critics say MSS is not great either. but .... ?


    It is not pure luck. The brahmin media that did not approve paarathi  then 
 talks more about him.
>>      If I have time I can show that Bharathi's
>>      tradition of poetry claimed by a lot of Bhaarathi fans to be unique
>>      is wrong. He has copied the tradition of simple thamizh set by
>>      a lot of siththars. He himself admitted that. His kummiyadi peNNE is directly from vaLLaalaar's
>>      poetry.


  You understand what I am talking about. I do not claim that Bhaarathi copied
his poems. The tradition of simple thamizh some people associate with paarathi
is not unique to him. vaLLalaar who lived in 19 th cent. and siththars
right from thirumoolar including sivavaakiyan have used that style. 

   I am only saying that due recognition be given to a literary tradition.
If you talk of his thEsap paRRu and uNarchchi it is correct. Just
facts should not be distorted.
>i would say, if people appreciate ones' work and if that person ack that he
>adopted [rather than copied ;-)] somebody else's style. you can not complain,
>can you ? if he has not acked then you have a point to make. but by ur own
>admission, bharathi acked that he adopted the existing style. what more do you
>want ? put siththars name as the author of all bharathis' songs :-). feel free
>to do it [ofcourse in ur copy of the book and believe me bharathi would not 
>mind ;-)]. unlike these days, he did not go after stupid titles given by
>"jaalras" and [honorary] doctorates, but he was called by others as
>"mahaakavi". but that does not mean other poets are idiots.   

   Just stop your rhetorics. I did not say his poems are copied.

  Tradition is always follwed by bards. very few totally change them.

  kaNNadhaasan has followed paarathi to an extent. That has to be
acknowledged when somebody is writing about kaNNadhaasan. kaNNadhaasan
follows even sangkam tradition that paarathi himself did not.

  kaNNadhaasn acknowledges that paarathi's lines in the song
gave a good start;
I am only looking at poetry from a tradition point. I can
also show some sangkam poems and relate to the sentiments
expressed by kaviarasu.
"un kaNNil neer vazhinthaal
 en nenjil uthiram kottuthadi
 en kaNNil paavai anRO kaNNammaa
 en uyir ninathanRO!

  unnai karam pidiththEn-vaazhkai
  oLi mayamaanathadi.
  ponnai maNanthathanaal puviyil
  pugazhum vaLarnthathadi

  -------
   aalam vizhuthukaL pOl-uRavukaL
   aayiram vaNdhum enna. 
   vErena nee irunthaai athil 
   naan ------------

   muLLil padukkai ittu vizhi
   moodavidaathirukkum
   piLLaikk kula madiyO! ennai
   pEthamai seithathadi 


  pErukku piLLai uNdu-pEsum
  pEchchukku sonthamuNdu.
  en thEvaiyai yaar arivaar-unnaipOl
  theivam onRe aRiyum

 
   The mood created by the song will make people cry.

 
   "
>>       He wrote freedom songs. I admire him for that.
> 
>may be it because of this he became well known. once u become well known,
>whatever u do will be recognised. as they say, the first break is difficult. 

>>      But they do not do like some Indians who go to the extent of
>>      naming thamizh sangams as "paarathi sangam" as if paarathi is thamizh.
>>      These are the same people who ostracized paarathi for his liberal
>>      views on caste.

>hey. despite being an aaryan [in ur view ;-) ofcourse], bharathiyar has done
               ***********************************
  Do not extrapolate.
  I always acknowledged paarathi's contribution objectively. No you
are iconizing because you want to cling. What I said is thamizh
is not paarathi alone or vaLLuvan alone. OK!.
>good to tamizh -- a dravidian language :-). think of that. don't u think it
>should be appriciated ? whether it is right or wrong, he has become an icon
>thats all. but nobody is preventing you if you start a thamizh sangam in
>iLaNGkO's name, who again, i think is not a tamizh [i am not very sure about
>it. so dont flame. can somebody clarify]. veeramaamunivar is appreciated in
>tamil literacy circles because of what he has done to tamizh despite being
>non-indian [forget about non-tamizh]. please do not have this rather narrow
>minded, sectarian prejudices in judging ones' work. u might fail to recognize
>some good work.


  I am not sectarianizing here. The people who want to call
"thamizh sangkam" as paarathi sangkam are sectarianizing things.
>moral : do not see who does to judge whether it is good or bad, 
>        but see what he does to judge it. 

>>       I shall write later about how people work in distorting thamizh
>>       literary tradition. One Premaa Nandakumar has written in her
>>                             *********************** 
>>       book that "paanjaali sapatham " is the first drama-poem in
>>       thamizh.

>sure please do, but give us what is the right one and with reference. so that
>we can make sure that u don't fall into the same trap of distorting thamizh
>literary tradition. i hope u understand. i dunno about prema nandhakumar. but
>my tamizh prof [he is not an aaryan ;-)] used to say that there was nothing
******************************************************
>like paanchaali sabatham appeared before in tamizh literature.  


   I care least.
>>         All these kayavars have to stop writing and spreading
>>         misinfo to make paarathi look bigger.


   They can do good to paarathi. But not bad to thamizh but saying
some stupid blanket statement like paanjaali sapatham is the first`drama
poem in thamizh. You dont have to defend them. 
>just because they say something good about bharathi make everyone kayavar ?
>even bharathidhaasan, thiru vi ka etc etc. please feel free to put me into that
>group. atleast i have got an elite company :-).

   It is your problem. 
>>         paarathi will have his own place in thamizh literature[a small
>>        little sure corner for singing about women liberation and
>>        freedom]

    Thanks for acknowledging.
>thank god atleast u gave him a corner. ghee, wont he appreciate it ? 


>>      silappadikaaram is the first drama-poetry written in the subcontinent
>>      to my knowledge. I shall correct myself if somebody can quote 
>>      any other work as good as silappadikaaram that talks about
>>      dance, drama and poetry so early in Indian history.

  Recognition to paarathi is not questioned. But do not
spread misinfo about thamizh literature in the name of exalting.

anbudan

Kathiravan.