HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 18 Aug 1992 23:52:26 EDT
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From:         Angela Zimmerman <AMZIMM01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU>
Subject:      Homosexual violence

Item Retrieval Assistant, DADS
Phone: 588-6757

Michael,

You have completely failed to convince me that homosexuality causes violence.
You cited *one* example of violence from the bible "caused" by homosexuality.
I could pull out many, many, more examples caused by heterosexuals, and I
think you know that.  You also cited "terroistic protests" concerning AIDS.
I agree with that view, but the actions of Operation Rescue and similar
groups aren't exactly peaceful either.  When AIDS first became well-known,
the homosexual community immediately started practicing safe sex, for the
most part, including handing out free condoms at gay parties.  That was
many years ago and the heterosexual community is still fumbling with the
practice of safe sex, and the number of heterosexuals getting AIDS is
growing while I suspect homosexual AIDS is on the decline.  Finally for
all the noise in speeches about homosexual AIDS...this is an example
of immaturity, which I assure you isn't exclusive to the homosexual
community.  Everything that you have blamed on homosexuality can be
found in the heterosexual community as well.  In short, we're all
people, and we all do the same stupid mistakes, regardless of our sexual
orientation.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 18 Aug 1992 14:16:24 CDT
Reply-To:     bradk%isdgsm@rtsg.mot.com
From:         Brad Kaiser <bradk%isdgsm@RTSG.MOT.COM>
Subject:      Re: Is the Bible Absolute Truth?
X-To:         CHRISTIA%asuvm.inre.asu.edu@motgate.mot.com
X-cc:         talaga%e5sb.osdhw.syr.ge.com@motgate.mot.com

Dave Talaga writes:

>> I'm confused.  I though you said the bible was a "fairly realiable"
>> truth, but not "the" truth.

The Bible is not "the" truth.  Jesus Christ is the Way, the Truth, and
the Life (Jn 14:6).

I said that the Bible is the most reliable document of ancient origin
we have, secular or religious.  I didn't use the term "truth".

>> I concluded that you meant it dosn't stand on it's own merits but
>> needs some assistance to extract what's applicable for today.  In
>> other words: there is error and it must, through some agency, be
>> corrected.

That is a non sequitur.  Asserting that the Bible requires
authoritative interpretation doesn't mean that there is a fault in the
Bible, it means that there are abundant faults in our understanding of
it.

If you disagree with this, look at the Yellow Pages under 'Church' and
count the number of denominations which claim to be true to the Bible.
How many can *really* be true to the Bible, though?

>> If the scriptures are the living word of God, then He is them.

This is pretty scary.  God and the Bible are not identical.

>> If He
>> is the word, then the word must share His attributes of truth and
>> perfection, regardless of the medium He chooses to communicate them
>> through.  Or, He is responsible to preserve them in spite of our
>> proclivities to pervert them.

First, when Jn 1 refers to the "Word", it is speaking of Jesus Christ,
the Word made flesh.  Jesus and the Bible are not identical.  (Isn't
this obvious?)  Jesus certainly shares the Father's attributes of
truth and perfection.

Whether the Bible I buy for $10 at the corner bookstore carries such
attributes of divinity is another question.  It really doesn't follow
that God preserves all editions of the Bible from error.  The JW's
have their own edition, the New World Translation, which most
assuredly contains errors (from the viewpoint of the orthodox
Christian community, that is).  It also doesn't follow that God
preserves all readers of the Bible from error.

In Him,

Brad Kaiser
(bradk%isdgsm@rtsg.mot.com)

  "Hatred destroys.  Only love creates."
            -- St. Maximilian Kolbe, shortly before his arrest and
               martyrdom at the hands of the Nazis.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 13 Aug 1992 09:56:28 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Family values, a euphemism?

Bernice:

Praise God for your deliverance!  Your story demonstrates that
alcoholism is *not* a disease, but a willful sin of the human will.
Jesus can deliver us from *all* behaviors displeasing to Him,
including drinking to excess, taking drugs, lying, and homosexual
behavior.

Praise God for taking our sins, *all* of them, on the cross, that
we might know true freedom--in Him, and Him alone.

Love INC,
         ---Kerry
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Date:         Fri, 21 Aug 1992 02:25:09 -0500
From:         "Michael S. Muegel" <mmuegel@MOT.COM>
Subject:      Non-Delivery Report for <9208202045.AA22606@motgate.mot.com>
X-To:         CHRISTIA@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU

The Mot.COM major relay, Pobox.Mot.COM, was not able to transfer electronic
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inspection of the electronic mail system log files shows that a mail
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to your local mail manager (ala postmaster) for disposition.

Some important facts on the mail that was undelivered:

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This message has been generated automatically. If you need further
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-Mike

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From: FACN34B@SAUPM00.BITNET (zane of dhahran)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: 24
Date: 20 Aug 92 11:40:47 GMT
Organization: King Fahd University of Petroleum and Minerals, S.A.
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X-Acknowledge-To: <FACN34B@SAUPM00.BITNET>

Hey, its still a nice number!  Yeah, sorry folks.  I was wrong.

                                not inerrant, :) Peace, Zane.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
From: seanna@bnr.ca (Seanna Watson)
Subject: Re:      Homosexuality ad nauseam
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Ottawa, Canada
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 19:22:38 GMT

In article <CHRISTIA%92081913502936@ASUACAD.BITNET> TQX@CORNELLC.BITNET writes:
>    Also, when I see a statement like "Most femininsts are heterosexual",
>I'd like to see some hard statistics. Since to my knowledge there has
>been no comprehensive polling of feminists on their sexual orientation,
>I suspect that statements such as this are just smoke in an attempt
>to bolster a shaky opinion. Perhaps there are reliable statistics
>supporting such a statement but I won't believe it until I see them.

Excuse me, but are you saying that the statement "most feminists are
heterosexual" is a shaky opinion?  Most of the *women* I know, both
Christian and non-Christian, are feminists.  I would be extremely
surprised to find out that most of the women I know are not hetero-
sexual.  Or do you have some radically different definition of feminist?

-- 
Seanna Watson   Bell-Northern Research, 
(seanna@bnr.ca) Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

Opinions, what opinions?  Oh *these* opinions. | It's hard to seize the
No, they're not BNR's, they're mine.           | day when you must first
I knew I'd left them somewhere.                | grapple with the morning.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 12 Aug 1992 12:39:27 -0400
From:         Vernon Galloway <gallowav@CC.GETTYSBURG.EDU>
Subject:      Re:How important is the BIBLE?

Alison,

I found your response to my post interesting.  It helps prove my
point as regards abortion being a divisive subject in our society.  I didn't
take a stand on either side of the debate, I have an opinion, but it's not
the subject of my comments.  My point was that God has laid down some rules
for living that, if followed by society, eliminate some of the problems
that society faces.  I know that even an absolute dictator could not force
compliance with this or any other law.  That should not keep us from living
our lives in compliance to Gods laws and should not prevent us from trying
to convince society to adopt changes in lifestyles as helps in solving
problems.

Please notice that I have kept any sin judgement out of this statement.
Society as a whole rejects the Christian concept of sin.

As to supporting statements, I can't quote anything.  I have read several
studies that claimed that most abortions were sought by single women that
were not rape/incest victims, but I didn't keep copies of what I read.  If
someone can produce different information, I apologize in advance.

I also didn't say anything about what should happen to the rape/incest
victims or married women pregnant by their husbands.  I said that without
the majority of their customer base, abortion clinics would do what all
businesses do when faced with no customers. They would go out of business.

Vernon


Vernon Galloway
Gettysburg College
MicroComputer Technician
gallowav@gettysburg.edu
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
From: mktjadx@gsusgi2.gsu.edu (Jeff A. Dilcher)
Subject: Re: My first sermon! Tonight!! ARRGH!
Organization: Georgia State University
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 15:22:13 GMT

Ian Williams <iwilliam@AU.ORACLE.COM> writes:

>A quick prayer request! I know God is not limmited to time, so please pray
>for me ,even though when you read this ,it will all be over!

>Anyway I really want to give mine tonight, so I will volunteer. I am so
>nervous I think I am going to puke.

I bet you did great!  Give us a praise report and tell us how good it was!
Jeff
 
-- 
 
  Jeffrey A. Dilcher                                   Atlanta, GA, USA
mktjadx@gsusgi2.gsu.edu                             Telephone 404-266-1585
      NSS #25914                                       II Peter 1:10,11
 



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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 19 Aug 1992 08:42:05 EDT
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From:         Angela Zimmerman <AMZIMM01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU>
Subject:      Family values (was Siege Mentality)

Item Retrieval Assistant, DADS
Phone: 588-6757
So what you're saying is basically to keep family values, ban everything
that's even the slightest bit controversial so that we'll all grow up
to be ignorant, happy people.

That's what I read in that statement.  Please correct me if I'm wrong in
that interpretation.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 14 Aug 1992 05:49:40 CDT
From:         Jesse Carnes <NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      To Robert Weiss

Dear Robert ;

I do not see, in context, that Jesus agrees with ANYTHING that Nicodaemus
is stating.
It seems that Christ is amening HIS OWN words.

Exegetically, can you show me, contextually, what IS it that Jesus agrees to
when He states the "verily ..."?



Jesse Carnes
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Organization: Samford University
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 12 Aug 1992 12:16:33 CDT
From:         Renee Autry <SRAUTRY@SAMFORD.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Southern US
              12 Aug 1992 10:01:45 -0700 from <DRAKE@ASUCHM.LA.ASU.EDU>

Mark,

Although a case can (and has by numerous Southern historical theologians)
be made that religion in the South is "social" in nature, may I say as a
life-long Southerner (except for a 2 year stint in Colorado) that for many
people it is not "social" - it is a way of life.  There are wonderful people
here (as there are everywhere) that take their faith very seriously.  So, I
will warn about generalizations and making judgements about the whole of a
society based on a plumber :-) (no flames intended).  There are however,
numerous excellent works dealing with this subject if you are interested.
And your thoughts and comments are well taken.

Grace and peace,

Renee Autry
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 21 Aug 1992 08:59:22 CDT
From:         Tom Brewer <NOTTMB@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: CYNDI CAIN'S FALSE WORDS.
              21 Aug 1992 08:13:00 EST from
              <GRAHAM%DRCV06.decnet@DRCVAX.AF.MIL>

AMEN!

To all the Cyndi Cains in the world:

  "And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord
have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and
will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel" (GOD Ezekiel 14:9).

To all the followers of the Cyndi Cains in the world:

  "And they shall bear the punishment of their iniquity: the punishment of
the prophet shall be even as the punishment of him that seeketh unto him"
(GOD Ezekiel 14:10).

Tom Brewer
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 12 Aug 1992 08:13:53 CDT
From:         Yvette Traylor <YST1@DCCCDBIT.BITNET>
Subject:      Discouraging Gifts

Darren,
How about Thumper telling her Hepzebar exactly what she wants for
Christmas. My mother often drops hints "one day I will be able to buy
me a brief case like that", that doesn't mean that I am going to buy
her one, "which I did", but atleast I knew what she wanted, where as
if she had said nothing, I would have gotten her something she probably
did not want or like.


   Yvette Traylor     "We are His people and the sheep of his pasture."
   Dallas County Community College District             Psalm 100:3
   Computer Programmer/Analyst  in  Dallas - Texas
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 20 Aug 1992 11:55:18 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Position Clarified (long)
              20 Aug 1992 14:38:50 GMT from <78witherspoo@CUA.EDU>

Tom & all:

Isn't there an argument of efficiency to be made on the condom distribution
issue?  Given that, thanks to the NEA and the AFT, teachers apparently
can no longer be trusted to communicate such information to high school
seniors as where the United States can be found on a map, when the
Civil War took place, or who was President during the Korean War (one
widely used text says it was Nixon), what in the name of all that is
sensible, makes us think these same people are capable of or can be
trusted to accurately teach children about the safe and effective use
of birth control?  Much less in what circumstances to use it?

Isn't the right way to put on a condom both more difficult and more
important to learn than the dates of the Civil War?  And aren't the
consequences of error in one case more serious than in the other?

Love INC,
         --Kerry
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Date:         Wed, 12 Aug 1992 15:25:06 MST
From:         "Steven E. Hoell" <seh@NEUTRON.PHYSICS.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Q: Origin of the term "mass".

From Newton's Law:

        Force = Mass x Acceleration.

You've got this mass of people being spiritually moved (accelerated) under the
Force of the Holy Spirit... "Blessed is the Kingdom..." and you're off!

Sorry.

Steve Hoell             seh@neutron.physics.arizona.edu
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Date:         Mon, 17 Aug 1992 09:35:14 -0500
From:         "j.b. cormier" <CORJB@RHODES.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Trusting Scoutmasters

> How is a child suppose to deal with the fact that their scoutmaster is
>  attracted to males?  What about when the kids take showers, go swimming,
>  or go to sleep at night.  It would be the same as having men be Brownie
>  Troop leaders and sleeping with girls in tents.  I think some parents
>  would be nervous about that.  Same thing for the boys, ever hear of
>  temptation?

I think that maybe some people on this list need to have the
difference between homosexuality and pedophilia explained.

Homosexuals are attracted to men, pedophiles to boys(or girls).

How many typical heterosexual men are attracted to girls?

Jason
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 19 Aug 1992 10:10:05 CST
From:         A16905@ITESO.BITNET
Subject: Re: Direct Revelation

Thanks for this one Elizabeth !

You know, here in Mexico there are some places that have no church services
but a couple of masses a year. No preachers, no priests, no nothing. The
only thing they have is the rosary and it has been the only way to keep
their faith untouched.

For all that don't know what is the rosary about, here is it:

A modern rosary is composed of 5 misteries (i'll elaborate about 'modern')
In each mistery we pray 1 'Our Father' 10 'Hallow Mary's and 1 'Glory'. We use
this prayers as a background music to meditate about some passages of the Life
of Jesus (and/or Mary). The more usual misteries are 15 that are divided in
3 groups:

Misteries of Joy  (Monday and Thursday)

1.- The Incarnation of Our Lord Jesus Christ in the virginal womb of Mary.
2.- The visiation of virgin Mary to Isabel.
3.- The Birth of our Lord Jesus Christ.
4.- The presentation of Child Jesus in the Temple.
5.- Jesus lost and fount in the Temple.

Misteries of Pain (Tuesday and Friday)

1.- The prayer in Getzemani.
2.- The Lord is (*azotado*)   (I can't get the word !)
3.- The spike crown
4.- Jesus carries His cross.
5.- The Son of God dies in the Cross.

Misteries of Glory (Wednesday, Saturday and Sunday)

1.- The Resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ from the dead.
2.- The Assention of our Lord Jeus Christ to Heaven.
3.- The comming of the Holy Spirit in Pentecost
4.- The Assumption of Virgin MAry to Heaven.
5.- Virgin Mary, Queen of creation.

In the past all 15 misteries were prayed all days, now we use to pray each
group on the days indicated (this is not forced, just recomended).

Personally, I have trouble with the rosary, I mean, I stary to distract myself
and that's why It is not in my normay spirituality. This doesn't mean that
I think it is not good, on the contrary, as I stated above, It is the only thing
some brothers have !

Shalom,
Memo.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 14 Aug 1992 20:18:23 EDT
From:         MKLINE%VDH.BITNET@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU
Subject:      Operation Blessing
X-To:         christia%asuacad.BITNET@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU

Subject: Operation Blessing

700 Club did a bit on TONS of peaches in America that were being put into
the country roads to rot because they didn't meet government specs for
"grade A" and those kind of things.

Operation Blessing found out about it and got permission to distribute
to those in need here in America. They mentioned Applichia(sp),
Philadelphia, and a few other cities.

Anyhow, since they have started, they have distributed 280,000 pounds of
peaches. Since their food distribution program started in Feb of 92,
they have distributed 5.9 MILLION pounds or approx. $2.6 million worth
of food. They are gathering up all sorts of things. One program some
time back showed the gathering of potatoes that were too large and too
small for market.

Great program. Taking the "waste" and using it to God's glory.
Organization: Central Michigan University
Date: Tuesday, 18 Aug 1992 22:38:07 EDT
From: <32WENPW@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: Beggars
 <92231.083806U30993@uicvm.uic.edu>

I spent a year in inner-city Chicago and have some strong opinions about giving
 to people who ask on the street.  (My wife and I have also twice opened our ho
me to pregnant teens... and have some experience with the "homeless".)
   IMO the overriding Christian concern is "love": What is best for the individ
ual?  (1) You could give them money.  Most of the time they use it to buy wine
and continue their lifestyle.  You have helped them not at all -- but maybe you
 feel good.  (To exaggerate a little, if you are willing to give a street alcoh
olic money, you might as well go buy the liquor for them, you would then at lea
st save them the energy wasted in walking to the corner liquor store.)
      (2) You could buy them food or take them someplace to eat.  Practically e
very homeless person on the street needs food; the alcoholic certainly does.  Y
ou have helped them a little.
   (3) Take them to a shelter -- if they will go.  If they will go then you hav
e a shot at helping them a lot.   (Pacific Garden Mission in Chicago was one of
 those missions.)
    Most I met on the streets of Chicago have one goal in mind:  to squeeze as
much money out of the gullible passersby as possible until they had enough to b
uy cheap wine.  So  I quit giving $.  They could go with me to a local restaura
nt or store and get a meal or they would get nothing at all.   At least I was n
ot contributing to their alcoholism.  If you wish to financially help the stree
t people, GIVE THE MONEY TO ONE OF THE MISSIONS THAT NEEDS IT, not (indirectly)
 to the corner liquor store.   IF you wish to REALLY help these people, give th
em your TIME.  I would suggest that one begin giving time by volunteering at a
street mission!
   Let me summarize: what do THEY really need? (YOU may "need" to give a buck a
nd feel good -temporarily- but this only solves YOUR needs.) What does the stre
et person really need?   NOT your money.
                                      ken

 (ken w. smith, math dept., central michigan univ., mt. pleasant mi 48859)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
From: 75furlong@cua.edu
Subject: Re: Family values
Organization: The Catholic University of America
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 15:02:13 GMT

In article <20AUG92.11316825.0028.MUSIC@LAFAYACS>,         "Fritz Block, LCF Summer President" <BD32@LAFAYACS.BITNET> writes:

[....]
>> I agree that distributing condoms "feels" wrong, but are there any statistics
>> about how is has affected incidence and frequency of sex?  Without them, there
>> is no way to know whether this will do anything or not.
> 
> This isn't in one of my fields of expertise (as if I have any!) -- do
> you know of any stats, Michael Kline or anybody else?  But distributing
> condoms does send the message of condoning promiscuity, and if there
> aren't any stats saying that it has _cut down_ the indicidence and
> frequency of sex, then it's legitimate to call for an end to this
> practice.
[....]

Wouldn't _cutting down_ the incidence and frequency of STDs among teenagers be
enough to keep it going?

-Alison