HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hall@sweetpea.jsc.nasa.gov (Philip Hall 283-4031)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Saints News
Date: 23 Aug 1992 15:24:55 GMT
Organization: McDonnell Douglas Space Systems Company


Well, as might be expected the Saints' secondary looked porous against the
Oilers' run & shoot. The good news is that both Gene Atkins and Brett Maxie
signed yesterday so that can be expected to improve.

Bobby Hebert looked AWFUL - couldn't seem to find a receiver and kept throwing
into double and triple coverage.

Mike Buck played one series in the first half and all of the second half and, if
anything, looked worse than Hebert. Steve Walsh didn't play at all - it's not
clear what the situation is there - if Buck is considered the #2 QB or if they
are just trying to get him some playing time - He certainly has a strong arm and
good scrambling ability but is erratic.

Torrance Small looked good - made several excellent catches in heavy traffic -
with Eric Martin still unsigned and no evident progress in his negotiations, he
may end up as a starter.

Derek Kinnard played extensively at center and performed quite well - he might
give Hilgenberg a battle for the starting spot.

Dalton Hilliard looked impressive in limited action - he seems to be fully
recovered. Vaughan Dunbar performed well but doesn't seem to me to be competitive
with Hilliard for the starting job at this point.

Ironhead looked impressive blocking, running and receiving - He seems to be in
shape and actually putting out maximum effort - If he keeps that attitude through
the season, the running game should be a real asset.

All in all, except for the dismal performance of the quarterbacks, the team
didn't look as bad as the score might indicate.

PH
From: v077mdph@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (John of Gaunt)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: `Skins vs. Bills Talent (Re: Kelly vs. Rypien)
Date: 14 Aug 92 06:57:00 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Aug7.203149.24700@sequent.com>, schalene@sequent.com (Schalene
Dagutis) writes...
>In article <BsJ0p9.Ent@acsu.buffalo.edu> v077mdph@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (John
>of Gaunt) writes:
>>In article <1992Aug4.174614.5455@sequent.com>, schalene@sequent.com (Schalene
>>Dagutis) writes...
>>
>>>(Stuff -- pros and cons -- about Ryp's talent deleted)
>>>>
>>>>	He has had one good season, with a team that supposedly has much more
>>>>talent than the Bills.  Even then, Kelly still had a better season, and Kelly
>>>>didn't play well.  Rypien did not outplay Kelly in the Super Bowl.  The Redskins
>>>>outplayed the Bills.
>>> 
>>>This is the first I've heard of the Redskins having more talent than
>>>the Bills last year.  Before it was always that the Bills were loaded
>>>with individual talent and egos.  And the Redskins had a few
>>>superstars and lots of other players -- all who played with a great
>>>deal of heart and subversion of individual egos for team goals.  Plus
>>>great coaching......amazing what a year will do to people's memories.
>>> 
>>>schalene

[many questions of mine deleted]

>>Snoopy
> 
>Sorry, Snoopy, I must have killed all those.....as a long-time
>Redskins fan I'm never convinced if its talent or luck.  I must have
>been confusing the net with the media....who always thought the Bills
>had the most "pure" talent.  I guess it's my memory that's going ;-)
> 
>schalene

	No apology is necessary.  I didn't mean to get on your case.  The media
may have said that the Bills had more talent.  Still, they were underdogs in the
Super Bowl.  I won't criticize your memory, since mine is undoubtedly poorer.

Snoopy
From: andy@misha.central.sun.com (Andy Knipp Metro SE)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: No Draft Next Year?!
Date: 19 Aug 92 12:55:55 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: andy@misha.central.sun.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: misha.central.sun.com

In article 24207@macc.wisc.edu, heim@vms.macc.wisc.edu (JOHN HEIM	) writes:
>In article <1992Aug18.210655.5358@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>, gidi@Hilbert.Stanford.EDU (Gidi Avrahami) writes...
>
>>heim@vms.macc.wisc.edu (JOHN HEIM	) writes:
>>>PS. I thought the players union recertified shortly after the 
>>>decertification.  Am I wrong?  
>> 
>>Yes, you are.  
>
>How do you know this?  (Who signed the current collective bargaining 
>agreement?)

The current CBA was signed in 82 by the NFLPA.  It expired in 87,  the 
union was decertified in 88-89 and not recertified.  As long as there 
was a union "protecting" the players,  the NFL could not be sued, do 
to the anti-trust exceptions.  W/O a union,  the NFL could be considered
a monopoly and the McNeil, et al, court case could procede.



---
Andy Knipp  SE                |
Sun Microsystems              | The secret of success is sincerity,
Schaumburg, IL                | once you can fake that,  you have it made.
andy@sunbird.central.sun.com  |
Organization: Central Michigan University
Date: Wednesday, 12 Aug 1992 12:43:38 EDT
From: William Grant <343VTQ2@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: Highest paid player
 <23528@oasys.dt.navy.mil>

With Ryp at $3 mill/year and Marino at $4.4,  isn't Jim Kelly SEVERLY
underpaid at $2.38 (??) mill/year (I think this was the figure which
quoted two weeks ago.) ??
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: dmercer@oracle.com (David B. Mercer)
Subject: Re: Worst Rules in NFL
Organization: Oracle Corporation, Belmont, CA
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 21:37:12 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <65913@hydra.gatech.EDU> gt6390a@prism.gatech.EDU (BERNSTEIN,AVRON P) writes:
>I'm just curious as to what the opinions are out there as to the absolute
>SINGLE worst rule the NFL currently has.  There are some pretty bad ones out
>there.  IMHO, the worst has to be the rule allowing a penalty to be called
>on a home team for "excessive crowd noise."  I always thought that was to
>be encouraged and was part of the home field advantage.  What do you guys
>think the worst is?

How about the forward pass?

Just kidding.

---DBM
From: mas@aero.org (Marcus A.Shaw)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Dallas Cowboys Q & A
Date: 12 Aug 92 18:05:14 GMT
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA

Hi Ho.  I thought for my own interest (and hopefully yours) I would
try to ask and answer some frequently asked Cowboy's questions.  Maybe
this will sponser some discussion, as there has been none in the past
few days other than the circulation of the DALLAS NEWSLINE, a fine
publication in its own right...

Q: Is Brad Daluiso the answer to the Cowboys kicking questions?
A: He had better be.  With Lin Elliot nursing a pulled groin muscle
and no other kickers on the horizon, Daluiso's brand of kicking
appears to be the Cowboy's staple for week one.  By week 3 we may see
a kicker free for all or we may see Daluiso heading for the ProBowl.
Chances are we will see nothing more than white knuckles on every FG
and rocket powered flight on every kickoff.  Don't look for the
Cowboys to keep Daluiso just to kickoff, there aren't enough roster
spots for the rookie talent as it is...

Q: Will Beurlein challenge for the starting job?
A: Although I thought a QB controversy was in the making at the end of
last season, apparently SB has learned something about his true
ability since then.  I now conceed that JJ realizes that Beurlein is
not a GREAT QB (as Aikman could be) and will not hamper Troy's
development with a controversy only in order to win one or two games
now.  Beurlein is quiet, both are throwing strikes, and all is right
with the world.  The quest for a #3 appears to be dead in Craig Kupp
(the 6'6" behemoth) unless they still have need of a signal shield on
the sidelines (ala last year).  The career of Jason Garrett needs help
as well, more help than his Cowboys scout father can provide.

Ooops, gotta run... more in the next installment.

*ice*
From: ENVIRON@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: Worst Rules in NFL
Date: 14 Aug 92 19:14:10 GMT
Article-I.D.: SLACVM.92227.111410ENVIRON
Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center

In article <Bsz96t.K5t@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>, imprint@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca
(IMPRINT -- UW's Student Newspaper) says:
>
>It's a tie. The first is sudden death overtime. Both teams should get equal
>number of possessions in overtime until one wins.

     Why is sudden death so bad?  I think it's a lot more exciting... And
neither team actually winds up with a distinct advantage (I saw a graphic
during an overtime a couple of seasons ago that pointed out that the team
that received the overtime kickoff had scored first 51% of the time)...

Brett
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: 6405750@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Subject: rams notes
Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space Company, Inc.
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 13:06:37 GMT

------------------------- Original Article -------------------------
From: nelson@clunker.b21.ingr.com (nelson jordan)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: rams notes
Date: 17 Aug 92 20:44:39 GMT
Organization: ^$

In article <92230.42672.6405750@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM> 6405750@LMSC5.IS.LMS
>rams beat the raiders over the weekend.marcus dupree ran for 100
>yards in the second have.he ran thru people as well as around them.
>our defense looked pretty good also,stopping the raiders deep in
>our territory.pagel as well as the rookie rubley looked impressive
>at qb.keep up the good work "rams"
>drew

 How did 3rd-round pick Todd Kinchen do? What positions did he play? WR,punt-
returner? What about fellow 3rd-rounder DL Marc Boutte?

Organization: University Relations - Diane, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 10:30:10 -0400 
From: Todd Harris Fletcher <tf0y+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Washington Redskins - Rypien Finally Signed!

>Rypien is now NFL's second highest paid player, and he received the largest

That is wrong.  At best, he is the third highest.  Joe Montana and Dan
Marino both make more than him.

Todd
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: jjn@cbjjn.cb.att.com (Jeff Nappi)
Subject: Re: Leroy Hoard
Organization: AT&T Bell Labs
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 15:57:47 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.151823.57@uc.msc.edu>, barbara@msc.edu (Barbara Bryan) writes:
|> Does anyone have an injury report on Leroy Hoard? 

Last I heard he will be out 3-4 weeks with a sprained knee.
-- 
Jeff Nappi
Columbus Bell Labs
jjn@cbjjn.att.com
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: alvstad@lars.acc-admin.stolaf.edu (Joel D Alvstad)
Subject: Re: Packer Update
Organization: St. Olaf College; Northfield, MN
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 19:31:43 GMT

In article <55707@olivea.atc.olivetti.com> rsmith@strobe.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Russ Smith) writes:
>In article <1992Aug14.171841.11491@cbfsb.cb.att.com> tkelsey@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (todd.p.kelsey) writes:
>** I asked**
>>>Has there been another guy get as much hype and attention and do as little
>>>as Tony Mandarich in recent NFL history? 
>>>
>>
>>There's only one I can think of:  Brian Bosworth.  
>

How about post-trade Herschel Walker??

Joel Alvstad
St. Olaf College
Northfield, MN
alvstad@stolaf.edu


Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: csuah@warwick.ac.uk (~WISP at CU~)
Subject: Re: Worst Rules in NFL
Organization: Computing Services, Warwick University, UK
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 12:20:26 GMT

In article <55824.glh@[128.244.197.62]> glh@aplcomm.jhuapl.edu (, Gene A. Heyler) writes:
>
>I vote for the sudden death (sudden victory?) rule, whereby a team can win
>the game on a single possession. At least in baseball, both teams get to
>bat in extra innings (imagine a game where the visting team scores in the
>top of the tenth and the game is over????) and in basketball, hockey,
>soccer, or any other sport, teams get multiple possessions in overtime.
>
>They should amend the rule so that if a team wins the toss and scores on
>their first possession in overtime, the other team gets one more shot to
>tie or win.

Not in rugby union you don't. Not sure what happens in the league code, but in
union, you definitely play sudden death...

Later,

The Wisp.
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
     Chris Williams <csuah@uk.ac.warwick.csv> aka <csuah@csv.warwick.ac.uk>
"Tony Greig in the slips, legs apart, waiting for a tickle"
                                      Brian Johnson (thanks to A. Simha 8^>)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: marshall@force.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com (Bob Marshall)
Subject: Re: 49ers/Redskins
Reply-To: marshall@force.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com
Organization: LMSC, Sunnyvale, California
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 20:14:28 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.160709.19658@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu>, ded@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu (nod sivad) writes:
>>Looks like a terrific quarterback controversy is brewing. Do the 49ers
>>go with a gimpy, rusty Montana? Or do they go with the athletic and
>>talented Young, who looks great but fails to put points on the board?
>>Or do they go with the fans' choice, Steve Bono, who simply gets the
>>job done one way or the other? 
>
>Several posts have noted how Bono scored and Young didn't, totally ignoring
>the fact that Young played against a solid starting defense and Bono
>played against the wannabe's.   The Redskin starters have not allowed
>a point in all of preseason, but thanks to poor second half performances
>by the wannabe's we've lost every preseason game.  You might want to
>keep this in mind while evaluating QB's.

Duh. Like none of us realize that. Even taking that into consideration,
Bono has looked better than Young, and he's made the other players in
the game look good along with him.  And don't forget that Bono had to
play with the 49ers "wannabe's" on offense.

=============================================================================
Bob Marshall                     \\     "It ain't age
Lockheed Missiles & Space Co.     \\     That makes me look this way
Sunnyvale, CA                      \\    It ain't the years, boys,
marshall@force.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com\\   It's the miles"
"I tell the truth 'cept when I lie"  \\     - Chris LeDoux
=============================================================================
From: steves@gdfwc3 (Steve Strauss)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: Rice to holdout for the year? (So sez Eddi
Date: 18 Aug 92 15:47:04 GMT
Organization: General Dynamics, Fort Worth Division

In article <l91tspINN3mv@cronkite> andy@misha.central.sun.com (Andy Knipp Metro SE) writes:

>   I expect the owners to fold & start signing a lot of these players.  With 
>   the lack of a contract (there can be no draft next year) and the anti-trust
                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>   suit,  there will be free agency for players who have ~ 6 years in the league.
>   The Redskins are telling Desmond Howard they are LOWERING his offer.  Don't
>   bet on it.  They cannot afford to let the 6th player in the draft go back 
>   to next year's (if there is one) draft.  
                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Please explain.

--
Steve Strauss         /\          gdfwc3!kuwait!steves@central.sun.com
                     |  |
              _---__ |  | __---_
            .' ____ \/  \/ ____ `.
           / .'    \      /    `. \
          | /       \_  _/       \ |
          |/         /  \         \|
                    |    |    
        Geaux    |\__\  /__/|    Saints!
                 \___    ___/
                     |  |
                     \  /
                      \/
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: jag@unislc.uucp (John Ganske)
Subject: Re: Ty Detmer and other Heisman winners
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 13:38:42 GMT

Vernon H Harmon <vh00+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:

>isn't Marcus in Minnesota now, with Roger Craig and the Vikings?

>--Vernon.
I'll answer this question as if your serious - Roger is with the Vikes,
but the Allen in purple is Terry, a Vikings' draft pick from Clemson
three years ago.

John Ganske      -------------------------
a readheaded dad, vegetarian, cyclist, runner, volleyball player,
programmer, and all-around good guy, glad to be back in Minnesota
and soon to become small-time (very small-time) farmer 
     -----------------------------------------------------  
Unisys Corp.                            jag@unislc.slc.unisys.com 
Roseville, Minnesota                    612 635-7545  
-----------------------------------------------------------------
From: dkl@cs.arizona.edu (David K. Lowenthal)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: Instant Replay
Date: 12 Aug 92 18:39:27 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson

In article <1992Aug12.171955.5358@cbnewsm.cb.att.com> jmd@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (joseph.m.dakes) writes:
>
>The concept of instant replay is a good one - the referees are human and
>make mistakes so let's review their decisions and correct the wrong ones.
>But the implementation was terrible - allow other humans with no
>refereeing experience to review the decisions.

Bull.  That is complete garbage.  You can't let referees do instant replay,
because they never want to overrule the field officials (they feel wrong
to do that).


The way to implement instant replay is to hire 14 people who know nothing 
about refereeing, train them to know all the rules, and then let them
be replay officials, because they will have no ties to field officials.
Then you give them full power to overturn officials on any call in which
the officials have to huddle or look confused.  There should be no
inconclusive ruling from the booth when the field officials pretty
much guessed the call in the first place.  That is merely supporting a
call which was inconclusive on the field.

Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: derrick@meaddata.com (Derrick Tatem)
Subject: Dallas Cowboys
Organization: Mead Data Central, Dayton OH
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 12:11:44 GMT
Distribution: na

Hello Dallas Cowboys Fans. I'm a DIE HARD Fan of THE BOYS through rough times
and good times. Since no other pre-season games will be televised nationally,
Is there someone out there, if possible, willing to tape any or all of the
remaining Cowboys pre-season games for me? I'm willing to pay for the VHS tape
and I'll reimburse you for the postage.

I know it's just a pre-season game, but the more I get to see THE BOYS the
better it is for me. I don't see too many Cowboys Game living in this region.
Let's hope THE BOYS can go all the way this year. Any offers? Please e-mail me
if interested. Thanks in Advance. 

-- 
Derrick M. Tatem
Mead Data Central, Dayton, Ohio
Internet: derrick@meaddata.com
UUCP:     !uunet!meaddata!derrick
From: cvacura@uswat.uswest.com (V)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: Ty Detmer and other Heisman winners
Date: 20 Aug 92 15:04:16 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: U S WEST Advanced Technologies

>How about... 

McCallum           Raiders?

V
From: riff@coos.dartmouth.edu (Christopher P. Riff)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: Are the Bears 2 players away from the Super Bowl?
Date: 19 Aug 92 14:34:04 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

john@makesys.com (John Turman) writes:

>Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't `Da Bears about 4 bricks shy of a load? By
>that I mean sure you need two OL's but if you ask me I think you could use two
>speed burners as wide outs too. Yeah I know you have Willie Galt but where is
                                             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^???
>the other deep threat? If you want to make it to the super bowl nowadays you
>have to have at least two ultra fast deep threats who can catch balls. Willie may
>be a great hurdler, but he's got a pair of bricks for hands, excuse my saying so.

Uh, the Bears haven't had Gault for about four years now.
Also, I disagree that the Bears need two "ultra fast deep receivers".  One
would be nice (now if only Anthony Morgan could learn to hold on to the
ball...), but Wendell Davis, Tom Waddle and Ron Morris are pretty darn
good receivers in their own right.

----------------
Chris Riff
riff@dartmouth.edu
From: heim@vms.macc.wisc.edu (JOHN HEIM	)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: Vikings blow out KC
Date: 17 Aug 92 12:44:59 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Wisconsin Academic Computing Center

In article <1992Aug16.071011.14582@news.stolaf.edu>, alvstad@mari.acc-admin.stolaf.edu (Joel D Alvstad) writes...

>That's right, the lowly Vikings defeated the Chief (Super Bowl favorites) at
>the Dome tonight by the score of 30-0.  You read correctly. 30-0.

Don't get too excited.  The Packers beat the Chiefs soundly in week 1. 
Either the Chiefs are sandbagging it or they have major problems.

>I bleed purple.

You owe me $1.  :-)

John G. Heim                                 Email:  heim@macc.wisc.edu

"If there's something wrong with the computer, it's sophisticated diagnostics 
will notify you of the situation by assuming an appearance that, for the most
part, is dark and lifeless." - The Adventures of Lone Wolf Scientific
From: jawebb@hydra.unm.edu (James Webb)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Club Ranking by Yards 1991
Date: 21 Aug 92 04:46:54 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque


		1991 NFL Club Ranking By Yards

Team			Offense				Defense
		Total	Rush	Pass		Total	Rush	Pass
Atlanta		8	16	6		24	23	20
Buffalo		1	1	4		27	24	21
Chicago		11	9	13		4	10	8
Cincinnati	14	12	11		28	13	28
Cleveland	19	24	9		18	21	15
Dallas		9	13	8		17	8	23
Denver		12	8	17		5	19	3
Detroit		17	10	22		15	17	19
Green Bay	24	22	19		10	7	17
Houston		2	23	1		9	6	14
Indianapolis	28	28	17		20	28	4
Kansas City	5	3	15		13	18	16
LA Radiers	23	15	25		21	22	18
LA Rams		18	27	7		23	12	25
Miami		7	23	3		25	27	12
Minnestoa	10	4	21		14	20	13
New England	22	18	16		26	9	27
New Orleans	15	14	10		2	2	2
NY Giants	16	6	23		7	16	6
NY Jets		6	5	12		12	4	24
Philadelphia	25	21	20		1	1	1
Phoenix		27	26	26		16	26	7
Pittsburgh	20	17	18		22	11	26
San Diego	13	2	24		19	14	22
San Francisco	3	11	2		6	5	11
Seattle		21	20	14		8	15	10
Tampa Bay	26	19	28		11	25	5
Washington	4	7	5		3	3	9
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: tech@osceola.cs.ucf.edu (Tony Travaglini)
Subject: Re: A good laugh for Fin fans
Organization: University of Central Florida, Orlando
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 16:28:12 GMT

In article <1263@ceylon.gte.com> chf0@gte.com writes:
>
>Bobby got a few bruised ribs during the second series. It didn't look
>serious at all, but I think they held him out just to be safe.
>

And as an added bonus, Mitchell is out with a broken finger on his
throwing hand.      

Tony (go new england) Travaglini
tech@cs.ucf.edu
From: U50212@uicvm.uic.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: SORRY! FIRST TIME POSTING
Date: 12 Aug 92 19:51:02 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago


          SORRY ABOUT MY LAST POST. IT WAS MY FIRST TIME POSTING AND THE RESPON
SE WOULD NOT TAKE THE FIRST TWO TIMES. I HAVE FIGURED OUT WHAT I DID WRONG. AGA
IN I APOLOGISE FOR THE WASTED BANDWITH
======================================================================
(MARIO ANDRADE)
U OF I AT CHICAGO
(U50212@UICVM.UICEDU)
=======================================================================