From: pam@execu.execu.com (Pamela Nelson)
Newsgroups: rec.travel
Subject: personal to Rex Fowler - Hedonism
Date: 5 Oct 92 21:30:30 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Austin Dev. Center, Comshare Inc.

Hi Rex, 
I got your email with 4 different addresses and they ALL bounced 
back.  My email to you IS leaving our site OK, but for the first 
3 addresses you gave me, the address gets expanded to include
ti-csl somewhere in it, and I get a "bad system name" message.
For the last address (your home) I got "service unavailable", so
I decided just to post the info on Hedonism since you are still
interested.
------------------------------------------

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From: Pamela Nelson <pam@comshare.com>
Message-Id: <199209281437.AA00414@python>
Subject: Hedonism II
To: rmfowler@landru.mtc.ti.com
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 9:37:43 CDT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

Hi Rex!
I saw your posting requesting info about Hedonism.  I will
include some email between myself and some others on the 
subject.  The bottom line from me is -- GO FOR IT.  It's
the best time I've ever had anywhere and can't wait to go back!
The first info I've included is my reply to a guy named Roger.
==============================================================================
==============================================================================

> Subject: Hedonism II, request for info
> Has anyone recently visited Hedonism II, Negril, Jamaica, and is
> willing to share their impressions of the place?

Roger,  
I'll share some info with you, but it's not all that recent.
My husband & I went to Hedonism end of May 1989.  But I wouldn't
expect that it would have changed all that much since then.

> I'm trying to decide if it's worth the bucks to go there for a 
> vacation with my girlfriend. So far the only info I've had are a
> brochure (with many pictures, but few words...) and the recent
> article in Details magazine, which I suspect is mostly fiction
> and/or wishful thinking.

Well, I haven't seen Details magazine, but in my opinion the
pictures of Hedonism in travel brochures don't do it justice. The
beach is beautiful, the ocean is calm and clear.  There's no surf there,
which is the way we like it.  The place has been there quite a 
while and it's very popular.  The rooms are nothing fancy, but 
adequate -- and interesting (mirrors on the ceiling over the bed). ;-)
We definitely thought it was worth the bucks and very much regretted
not spending some extra $ and staying longer.  We took a 4 day, 3 night
package charter deal.  Just when we really got relaxed, it was time
to head for home.  I would recommend a week.  Because of the short 
length of time, we really didn't take the time to venture out into
Negril and experience any of the local culture, which we would have
liked - but there was too much to do at Hedonism and we also wanted
to spend alot of time sunning on the beach.  

> What's it like?

The food was _excellent_!  There were 3 buffet meals a day and a
midnight snack sort of meal.  Many choices, all laid out in a very
esthetically(sp?) pleasing manner.  You could easily overdose on all
the great food!  There is a disco type place on the grounds, which
we did not go to.  There are activities you may choose to partipate in,
or not, such as bicycle excursions, horseback rides, exercise classes,
party boat to an offshore island, all kinds of water activities, 
beach parties, etc.  There is a nude beach and a prude beach.  It's
all very natural and relaxed on the nude side.  There is a swimming
pool next to the main bar and the dining area, and a HUGE hot tub
adjacent to the nude beach area.  There is also a little walk up bar
at the nude beach.  Hedonism is an all-inclusive resort - everything
is included (except souvenirs of course).  All the food you could possibly
eat, all the liquor you can drink, even cigarettes if you like.  There 
were alot of single people there, but there were also many couples.
It IS a pretty hedonistic atmosphere, and it appeared that just
about anything goes.  It's no secret there that drugs are readily 
available if you are into that.  There are a few souvenir shops
on the grounds, an exercise room with some Nautilus equipment, some
tennis courts and a basketball court if I remember right.  There are
massages available at some extra cost.  At Hedonism your vacation can
be as relaxed or party-animal-crazed as you want it to be.  We can't
wait to go back, although we are considering the new Grand Lido resort
across the street from Hedonism.  I understand it's basically the
same general atmosphere, but new and a little more upscale (also costs
more).  Enjoy the bus ride from the Montego Bay airport to Negril --
that in itself is an experience we'll never forget!  I say GO FOR IT.  
I can't imagine that anyone would be disappointed. 
Everything is "no problem".
If you go, I'd like very much to hear your impressions and find out
if it's changed -- please email me.
==============================================================================
==============================================================================
this next group is my reply to John Tesmer - he and his wife just got
back from Hedonism in August and loved it!  I asked him for an update
when they got back.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

> Thanks for the info, I sure will let you know how it was if I go.
> You're the only one who's replied who has actually been there - here's
> a few excerpts from people who went to Sandals next door and walked over
> to Hedonism II to check it out - what do you think of some of their comments?
> 
> Hedonism sounds interesting enough - we don't want to go someplace where
> they expect you to dress up for dinner, and we also don't want to go
> someplace where everyone is stuffy and afraid to have fun. Also, people
> in our age range... late twenties... to talk to.
> 
   On one night there, they called it "Toga Night" or something, they
   said you are required to wear a toga or sheet or something like
   that in order to be served supper.  That was the night after we
   left so I really don't know much about that.  But rest assured you
   don't have to "dress up" for dinner.  The place is anything but
   stuffy and _everyone_ there was having fun.  I would say the ages
   ranged from early twenties to forties, with most folks probably in
   their twenties.  

THE PARAGRAPHS BELOW ARE INFO JOHN COLLECTED FROM OTHER PEOPLE ON
THE NET AND I REPLIED TO EACH PARAGRAPH:
> ----------
> If you can afford it, go next door (literally) to Sandals Negril. It
> is *much* nicer and no bothersome singles. My girlfriend and I
> just came back from Sandals over New Years and we walked over to
> Hedonism II twice. The beaches at Hed II are not groomed or soft
> like Sandals, and the services didn't look as good. There were also
> a lot more males at Hedonism II, but none very good looking as
> my girlfriend stated.

  My response to the above comment is that - true, there were alot
  of singles at HII, but certainly none of them were bothersome.  My
  husband and I were on an anniversary trip, so we paid little 
  attention to anyone but each other, but enough to see that everyone
  was enjoying themselves.  It's true that Sandals & Couples cater
  exclusively to couples, but it wasn't any problem for us that HII
  had couples _and_ singles.  Like I said, we were there in May '89,
  and at that time the beaches at HII were clean and well groomed.
  That may have changed, I don't know.   I don't know why the beaches
  at Sandals would be any softer than at Hedonism - it's the same
  beach on the same bay right next door.         

  The maid service was OK, but the food was absolutely fantastic at 
  that time.  We did not check out Sandals so I can't really compare.  

> Sandals is a Club Med without the attitude, if you know
> what I mean. Most couples were newlyweds (over half) and ranged 
> in age from late 20's to early 40's mostly. We were the second or
> third youngest (I'm 24, she's 28) there. They have more than enough
> sailboats, windsurfers, canoes, kayaks, paddleboats, water skiing,
> scuba, snorkelling, etc... all free.

  If I remember right Hedonism has all the same water sports, although
  all we actually did was snorkel and ride in a boat.

> It sounds as if Sandals would be much more to your liking if you
> prefer quiet and romantic.

  The above comment might well be true.  Hedonism can get pretty rowdy
  although we did not participate in much of the craziness -- and 
  nobody's partying noise bothered us in our room.

> My father is a travel agent, and he recently visited Jamaica to check
> out the hotels, clubs, etc. He told me he would NOT recommend the Hedonism
> clubs for one reason - there seemed to be a lot of homosexuals there.

  We saw nothing at that time that would indicate that the above is true.
 
> I have seen HII and walked through it.  Physically, it is
> the pits, run down with a dirty sand beach & concrete pier. 
> Not like in the pictures.  
  
  Like I said, in '89 the beach was nice, but I will admit I thought
  the rooms could have used an overhaul.  My first impression was
  that the room was kinda shabby, but I got over that quickly enough.  
  I think Hedonism is fairly old, and the rooms certainly hadn't been 
  remodeled in quite a while.  This is one of the reasons we want to 
  try the new Grand Lido - still get the same Jamaican atmosphere, but 
  hopefully a very nice new room.  We thought the dining area and club 
  areas were very nice, and the grounds were kept very well at the time. 
  In fact we were impressed with how beautiful the grounds were.
  
========================================================================
below is info from J. Tesmer (I'm sure he wouldn't mind):


Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 11:00:15 -0500
From: tesmer@escher.bio.purdue.edu (John Tesmer)
Message-Id: <9209141600.AA29171@escher.bio.purdue.edu>
To: pam@comshare.com
Status: OR

Hedonism II trip report:

	My wife and I travelled to Hedonism II (in Negril, Jamaica for
	those of you who don't know) from Aug 5 to Aug 12 this year.
	Hedonism II is an "all-inclusive" resort that features a textile
	beach as well as an "infamous" CO beach.  It allows couples and
	singles, and only children over the age of 16.  

	To summarize me and my wife, we are both graduate students in
	our mid-20's, and this was our first trip to a place I would
	qualify as a nude resort...we've both been skinny dipping at
	some times in our life, but only in remote areas with not a lot
	of folks around.

	Our initial apprehensions about the place were that it (1) would
	be too wild and crazy even for us (Hedonism II has that reputation)
	or (2) would have a large porportion of men over women, that is,
	my wife didn't want to be the only girl on the beach.  However,
	the price was right for this resort and we decided to go for it.

	We took an Apple Vacation package that flew us by Private Jet from
	Chicago to Montego Bay.  At the airport, it took us about an hour
	to get through customs (they are seriously understaffed) while
	standing in sweltering heat (needless to say, no air conditioning).
	We found the appropriate bus and waited for all the Hedonism folks
	to arrive from their respective planes; this acutally involved
	quite a wait.  But after the bus got rolling, the Hedonism guides
	handed us a Red Stripe and we began to relax into what was to turn
	out to be a wonderful vacation.  The bus trip takes about an hour
	and 15 minutes, and a lot of folks mention it as somewhat of an
	adventure in itself (the road is twisty and narrow), however my
	wife and I never felt in danger or excited about it.  What WAS
	interesting was all the small towns that the road travels through,
	which may be one's only oppurtunity to see how the Jamaican people
	really live.  There are many metal shacks and garbage about; they
	are a poor people, and I don't get the feeling that they see too
	much of the money that the big resorts generate.  At Hedonism II,
	a typical waitress would only make about $10 US a week.  With
	this in mind, I can see why many tourists feel that the native
	Jamaicans don't care for them too much.

	The porportion of men to women on the bus was about 15 to 2, and 
	most of the guys were single.  This had us worried for the above
	reasons given, but when we got to the resort there seemed to be an
	equal balance of guys to gals, even in the singles crowd.

	I was not expecting a very nice looking resort, but I was very
	pleasantly suprised.  I had read many postings suggesting that
	the place was a bit older than the other resorts, was less well
	maintained, and the rooms were shabby.  At least to us, none
	of the above held true (incidentally, the rooms were recently
	remodeled...they still sport the mirrors above the bed, however).

	The resort is covered with lush plants and many trees, and the
	grounds were well maintained.  As you enter the resort, the
	first thing you see is a long hallway lined with tropical plants,
	leading on into the dining area.  The meals are always buffet
	style, and an initial concern of ours was the dining area
	was not going to be very "nice".  But it was: they had recently
	put in new tables, each one had a tablecloth and was set up
	for whatever meal was next in a somewhat elegant fashion.  When
	someone finished eating, it was (usually) quickly reset to
	provide room for the later diners.  The tables were arranged
	around a dance floor and stage on different levels, so that
	a lot of the tables had a good view of whatever entertainment
	was going on.  Or, you could retreat back farther and stay as
	much away from the action as you wanted to.  The food was
	passable, at best, but not bad and there was plenty of it.  In
	all fairness, we should note that many people loved the food...
	but we are epicurean gluttons.  The
	best meal was lobster night on Saturday.  We found that a lot
	of the native dishes they offered were not very authentic (a
	trip to a restaurant called Cosmo's proved this point very
	quickly) nor tastey.  I guess the food can be best described
	as standard american fare.  However, we didn't mind this so 
	much because the last thing we wanted to do on this vacation was
	overeat.

	Next to the dining room is where the old piano bar used to be;
	it is now being converted into a Italian restaurant :) which
	makes me more enticed to go back.  The new piano bar/game room
	was very nice, albeit smokey later at night.  There were the
	token gift shops as well, an open air gym that appeared to be
	reasonably equipped, tennis courts, squash courts, and other
	places we never frequented.  Beyond the dining room is the
	pool, and below it (with windows that look into the deep end
	of the pool) is what is known as the best disco in Jamaica.  We
	only went there once for pygama party, and it was just fine
	until it got really crowded.  They played good dance music and
	had recently installed a new light system that was really
	quite good for the size of the place.

	HII has two hot tubs, a bathtub size one by the swimming pool,
	and one that has been said to fit a record 300 people 
	(uncomfortably) on the CO side of the resort.

        There were quite a few comments on the rooms posted before, in
	that people thought they were shabby.  Our only problem with
	them was that the bathroom was very tiny (you couln't open the
	door if someone was sitting on the toilet) and that you didn't
	always get good water pressure.  But hell, if a room is what
	matters most to you at a beach resort, you are probably 
	vacationing in the wrong place.  Our suggestion to anyone
	going there is to request a room that is on the "nude" side,
	preferably on the first floor.  There is more reason to this
	than just the fact that you can walk to the beach without
	having to put clothes on: our room was right next to the
	"prude" beach where they held evening beach parties. 
	They tended to be rather loud until very late at night.
	Normally this wouldn't be a problem, but after
	a long day of travel it was a major annoyance.

THE BEACH:

	There has also been a lot of talk about how the beach at
	Hedonism II was not as nice or well groomed as that of its
	neighbor, Sandals.  We walked down along the beach for
	several properties and we can safely agree that the beach
	at Hedonism II is the worst of the lot.  The sand is much
	coarser and pebbly at HII, and was almost like powder 
	on other properties.  This in itself didn't matter so much
	to us (we were there primarly to scuba rather than appreciate
	the nuances of the beach), because the beach was better than
	most we were used to.  The textile side of the beach was
	much more of a beach per se, that is, it had gentle sloping
	sand into the water.  The CO side was very rocky, and the
	lounge chairs were perched on top of a rock shelf that ran
	along the swimming area; there was a little bit of good 
	beach but not much.  For this reason you might want to have
	your own float or hang out on the floats they have there.
	One thing that we both like about the HII beaches over other
	ones there is that they weren't clearcut of trees.  We both
	thought that Sandals had probably uprooted a lot of 
	vegetation to make room for their beach, and we weren't sure
	how much of the sand was native or imported.

THE CO BEACH:

	One thing that was particularly nice about the "nude" beach
	was that it sported a small bar and grill (open from 10 AM to
	6 pm) that you could approach in any form of attire you wished.
	My wife notes that the loud reggae music emanating from the bar
	frequently had a tribal beat to it that really added to the
	hedonistic atmosphere of the place.

	Being our first visit to such a place, I was a little suprised
	how well we adapted into the lifestyle of the CO beach.  People
	pretty much wore whatever they felt like: in the buff, in thongs,
	or in full bathing suits...nobody seemed to mind.  What did irk
	a lot of the folks hanging out there were the tour boats from
	Sandals that would stop just off the beach to give the folks a
	cheap thrill.  Many of these boats were glass bottomed, and we
	were hoping one would stop just long enough for us to swim under...;)

	The age range of the place was from mid-twenties (US...I felt we
	were the youngest people there) to over seventy.  A couple we
	befriended there were probably in their fifties or sixties and had
	been there 12 times; as a matter of fact, a lot of people on the
	"nude" beach had been there multiple times...which says a lot for
	the satisfaction rate of these people.  Everyone was very friendly,
	and we made friends without barely even trying.

	Another interesting part of the atmosphere were the "drugboats"
	that would pull up near shore.  They would either braid your hair
	or take you around the point so you can sample some of the local 
	produce.  These folk weren't much of a nuisance.

	Generally, we wrapped up our days at the beach by hitting the bar
	one last time before 6:00 and then soaking in the hot tub.  This
	hot tub was truly nude, in that no articles of clothing were
	allowed.  This kind of upset my wife and I, especialy when a 
	employee of Hedonism II came and threw out some girls who were
	there topless.  The tub was truly huge:  my drunk wife ended up
	doing laps in it one evening before passing out (this was how we
	managed to avoid the infamous toga night).



	All in all we had a fantastic time and came home very relaxed.
	Hedonism II offers a lot of activities for free and we tried to
	take advantage of all that we could...but often we found ourselves
	just laying out in the sun instead.  We don't think that the
	"nude" beach at Hedonism II is a great place for folks who want
	to commune with nature in the buff.  It is a little more risque
	than that...not really for the faint of heart.  One thing that
	irritated me some was the plethora of cameras on the "nude" beach,
	being toted by the nudists themselves...in general most folks
	asked before firing, but like I said, not for the faint of heart.
	If my wife and I were to go back to Jamaica, we would certainly
	go back to Hedonism II...we really did have fun.
==========================================================================
In conclusion Rex, I hope you find all this info helpful.  I hope you
decide to go.  If you're looking for some outrageous fun, Hedonism II
is the place!  Like I said, can't wait to go back - which hopefully
will be next spring.

ENJOY!   8^)


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 Pam Nelson                     |      "If you leave me,
 Comshare, Inc.      _          |       can I come too?"
 Austin, Texas      |_)/-\|\/|  |    - Mental as Anything -
 pam@execu.com      |           |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~





-- 
  <~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>
  < Pam Nelson         __  __  ____ |      "If you leave me,        >
  < Comshare, Inc.    /_/ /_/ / / / |       can I come too?"        >
  < Austin, Texas    /   / / / / /  |    - Mental as Anything -     >
  < pam@execu.com                   |                               >
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: rec.travel