From: jxs18@po.CWRU.Edu (Jerry Sy)
Subject: Re: Omnis 7
Reply-To: jxs18@po.CWRU.Edu (Jerry Sy)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 20:25:53 GMT


In a previous article, rebecca@cco.caltech.edu (Mark L. Fussell) says:

>
>>  entice users is a good description.  I find most features omnis demonstrates
>>  in their demo program is IT.  that's it, what you see in the demo is what
>>  you only get, nothing more, NO MAS!
>
>Omnis's demo programs aren't even faintly close to being the best you can do  
>with Omnis.  Doing more requires good examples, flashes of insight, and a  
>thorough understanding of how Omnis does things.
>
Case in point is the DAL connects module.  What you see in the SQL demo
is what you get.  That is because their DAL module is a CRIPPLED DAL.
This sucks.  And they claim that Omnis supports DAL, but they did not
say their DAL is crippled!  Just like they say they support DAL on the
windows version, but they did not say that they do not support every kind
of connection (like TCP/IP), or in other words, they don't say that it 
only works with async and 3270.

AppleEvents.  How come they don't have any demo of apple events ?
because they DON'T WORK! We have a Blyth tech note saying that their
AE does not work as advertised.  And yet, they are still claiming to
innocent onlookers that, yeah, we do apple events, wanna buy our database ?

>
>>  they did a good job on reports, but maybe not good enough, most of the
>>  users of my program wants a report in spreadsheet format! and currently,
>>  the only way to get that in omnis is to build an intermediate list first
>>  and generate the report from the list , not an excruciating (sp?) work
>>  around, but still a work around.
>
>I don't know why you could not generate a spreadsheet form report without  
>reading data into a list first, but using a list is not an Omnis work-around.   
ANything you don't do directly, to me is a work-around.
Panorama is certainly a poorer database program, but its spreadsheet
format apeals to most executives.

>The Omnis list is one of THE MOST IMPORTANT and powerful features of the  
>environment (far stronger than the 4D set for example).  Certainly using the  
>best features of an environment is not a work around.  Yes, the ad-hoc report  
>generator couldn't do all you wanted, so that is a fair strike against it.
>
that may be a powerful tool (definitely fro developers, for others ??) but
if that is not what the end users (the powerful corporate executives who
signs our paychecks) wants to see, then ????!!!


>----------------------------------------------------
>
>
>with each parameter (after the '/') begin optional.  It may be a little weird  
>(obscure) to use the same command for "Opening" a window and for  
>"Moving/Resizing" a window, but the functionality is there.  You can get the  
>current open windows and their positions from:
>
yes but you can only set the size when openning the window.  I need a feature
to resize the window upon clicking a button, hence I needed to to it in
an Omnis external.  but not all omnis developers can code in C, and I don't
think anybody will think that ,"well just close the window and open it
again in a different size" is an elegant solution.

>
>You are quite correct that Omnis can not create or move 'Window Objects' at  
>runtime.  For almost all applications this is not important (though I do agree  
>it can be very handy).  I do not think that Omnis is the way to create ANY user  
>interface and would personally choose Smalltalk for that purpose: having to  
>create any user-interface on demand.  
>
I have reason to believe that they sacrificed the BASIC user interface
features of a Macintosh application in lieu of cross-platform compatibility
with Windows.  I think they should have maintained the Mac-user interface
features (and Windows specific features as well) rather than to just
simply come out with a product with the common denominator of the 2 platforms.


>personally wish Omnis (or something else) was Smalltalk with persistent  
>objects, relational capabilities, a great UI builder, and for under $1000.  I  
>don't think Omnis will EVER be all of that, and unfortunately don't know of any  
>product which currently is.  But I am constantly looking for it :-)
>
>
another much needed feature in omnis is ability to open multiple application
programs (much like the ability to open up multiple stacks in hypercard).

As far as Blyth, I think they still have a long way to go in dealing with
their customers well.  I even received calls from the vice president of
Blyth when I raised concern about the shitty quality of their tech support.
and he promised change, but I still don't see any difference.

as you have said, omnis may not be the best package, but there is nothing
better.  right, but I'm sure everybody will be willing to drop omnis if
a new product comes out which works better (or even just treats its
customers better).