From: jelliw@warren1a.its.rpi.edu (William Brian Jellig)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Class' power (was Re: how to imprison a psionicist)
Date: 20 Dec 92 21:36:48 GMT
Reply-To: jelliw@rpi.edu
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY.

In article <QfAvhmS00YUo0XlON6@andrew.cmu.edu>, "Joseph E. Beck" <jb8n+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
|> 
|> seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu (Sea Wasp) writes:
|> > In article <YfAcFSi00VoxJoxOxf@andrew.cmu.edu> jb8n+@andrew.cmu.edu (Joseph E.\
|> >  Beck) writes:
|> > >>         Do all psionicist HAVE Shadow Form and Dominate? Odd, mine doesn't.\
|> > ..
|> > >No, but *his* psionicist has these abilities and finds them
|> > >unbalancing.  It's ludicrous to argue that X isn't too powerful
|> > >because I don't have X.  
|> > 
|> > 
|> >         Ahh, but I'm not (necessarily) arguing that HIS psionicist isn't too
|> > powerful. I AM arguing, however, that AS A CLASS Psionicists are not.
|> > 
|> >         Giving a single example, or even several, of an overpowering psi
|> > is not a proper method of demonstrating that a class is overpowering (any
|> > more than showing examples of dark-haired mass murderers proves that
|> > as a class dark haired people are mass murderers).
|> > 
|> >         Instead, you must demonstrate that all, or nearly all, examples of
|> > psis WILL be overwhelmingly powerful.
|> You use a very narrow minded method of hypothesis testing.
|> Considering every possible occurance is not only impossible, but in
|> this case misleading.  A random combination of powers (you want to
|> show ALL examples of PSIS, so that includes all possible combinations
|> of powers) will clearly not be effective.  But there is a rational
|> method behind the selection, they aren't being chosen at random.  Thus
 
Good point, but how rational is that method, anyway? (see below)

|> it doesn't make sense to test all combinations, only those likely to
|> occur. 
|> 
|> If I make the claim "heavy weight boxing champions are tough
|> to beat in a fist fight" would you dispute it?  Probably not.  But if
|> tomorow the heavyweight boxing champion was put in a coma and
|> permanently paralyzed he certainly would be easy beat.  Yet the claim
|> is still valid (under most people's hypothesis testing schemes).  If
|> it makes you happy, I'll restate the psion argument:  with a rational
|> selection scheme (great...now he's going to make me evaluate all
|> rational selection schemes...) psionicists as a class are more
|> powerful than the others.  

*strikes a match*

I don't know about the rest of you, but my psi-head is part of an adventuring
*PARTY*, where the right selection of spells/skills/powers of each member, 
when coordinated, results in a successful adventure.  Having your psi choose
all these powerful abilities, like domination, disintegrate, teleport, etc.
from the beginning seems kinda wasteful. What kind of enemies do your DMs 
put your 1-5 level party up against that you feel the need to min-max your 
power list?  (DM: you see a pack of kobalds. PSI: i dominate the leader, and
then i disintegrate another)  I find the psionicist's strengths to be much more
evident in non-combat, problem-solving applications. Your thief having trouble
with that locked door today?  Use molecular agitation and melt it, or that one
(cant remember name) that secretes acid to dissolve it.  When you do get into
combat, toss a couple of simple ego whips to disorient your foes while the 
fighter does what he/she does best.  As for teleporting, i'm sure the rest of
the party is going to be real happy with you for leaving them stranded when
the battle shifts away from your favor.

If you are content to wander the world, hack-and-slash, and strike fear into
the hearts of your enemies, or if you are playing solo, with no buddies to 
back you up in a fight, go ahead and exploit the advantages you have been 
discussing, and disregard everything i have said. For the rest of you,
who do things besides fight in your campaigns, what do you think the
strongest NON-COMBAT psi powers are?
...Just an idea for a new thread.

no sig, just Bill.
Organization: Junior, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA