HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: irilyth@fenris.claremont.edu (Josh Smith)
Subject: Re: Controversy
Originator: irilyth@fenris
Organization: HMC Academic Computing Services
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 21:39:34 GMT

In a prior article, Andy Pollard (aep@mv3600.bmen.tulane.edu) writes:
> This may seem like an obvious arbitration to you all, but it's led to 
> some controversy in our game.

Not obvious, but non-trivial. Here's my assessment; I'm posting in case
others are interested in the answer as well.

Italy's A Ser - Gre is supported only by Italy's F Ion S A Ser - Gre.  That
support is cut by Turkey's F Aeg - Ion. Therefore, A Ser - Gre fails.

Turkey's A Gre is supporting a move into Serbia. Therefore, its support is
not cut by the Italian A Ser - Gre (had it been dislodged, it would have
been, but it is not dislodged, as described above). The Turkish A Bul - Ser,
then, has one support.

Italy's A Tri - Ser is supported by the Russian A Bud, which is not cut; it,
then, has one support.

Italy's A Tri - Ser fails vs. Turkey's A Bul - Ser, since each has one
support. This result is not affected by the presence of the Italian army in
Serbia (it would still be true even if Serbia were empty or occupied by any
other unit), nor by any of the other moves. Thus, the final resolution is:

Italy:
      A Serbia ----> Greece                      (*bounce*)
      F Ionian supports A Serbia ----> Greece    (*cut*)
      F E Med -----> Smyrna
      A Trieste ---> Serbia                      (*bounce*)
      F Adriatic ---> Trieste                    (*bounce*)
      A Apulia ----> Venice

Russia: 
      F Rumania --> Black Sea                    (*bounce*)
      A Ukraine --> Sevastopol
      A Galicia --> Rumania
      A Budapest supports Trieste --> Serbia

Turkey:
      A Greece suuports A Bulgaria --> Serbia
      A Bulgaria ---> Serbia                     (*bounce*)
      F Black Sea --> Bulgaria                   (*bounce*)
      F Aegean ---> Ionian                       (*bounce*)
-- 
Josh Smith, User Support Coordinator  ::  irilyth@fenris.claremont.edu
Harvey Mudd College, Claremont CA     ::  consult(std-disclaimer.pl).
"Dad always thought laughter was the best medicine, which I guess is why
several of us died of tuberculosis." -Jack Handey, Deep Thoughts
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
From: larsbuet@cs.tu-berlin.de (Lars Buettner)
Subject: Re: Computer Diplomacy
Organization: Techn. University of Berlin, Germany
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 14:38:44 GMT

I'm interested in using mapit (PD program for nice dip scenes in postscript).
But nobody I know ever heard of it. Maybe 'good old germany' is to far away
from diplomacies world. So how can I obtain a copy of mapit ?

Thanks. Lars
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
Subject: FTP question
From: djohnson@cayenne.gac.edu (Daniel P Johnson)
Date: 16 Nov 92 23:16:56
Distribution: world
Organization: Fill is a dope



I read somewhere that ftp.fu-berlin.de is the "Official" Diplomacy FTP
site, with lots of cool stuff.  It was warned telemetry with the site
is extremely slow, and that one should know what one wants before
attempting to transfer.  "Extremely slow" doesn't begin to describe
the site.  Non-Operational is closer.

Does anyone know of another Diplomacy Archive?  (other than the one at
u.washington)  Is there a mirror this side of the pond, perhaps?

Thanks a roony

--  Daniel Johnson  djohnson@cayenne.gac.edu  --
From: Don.Delgrande@launchpad.unc.edu (Don Delgrande)
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
Subject: Re: Winning Big
Date: 20 Nov 92 16:08:26 GMT
Expires: Fri, 4 Dec 1992 05:00:00 GMT
Organization: University of North Carolina Extended Bulletin Board Service

In article <1992Nov17.103124.1@skcla.monsanto.com> jjfink@skcla.monsanto.com writes:
>But what is the greatest number of centers with which someone has won?
>
>If you start with 17 in, say 1909, and all other units moved to non-center
>regions (there are at least 17 each sea and land regions without centers), you
>could theoretically have all 34 by the end of the year.  Has this happened in a
>game?
>
I assume you're not limiting this to PBEM...there was a PBM game in the
early 1980s where two players each had 17 - and in one season, one of them
took all of the other's centers to end up with 34.  (Needless to say, this
was arranged between the two players.)  For those of you who know
something about North American PBM players: it was Dick Martin and Mark Lew.

			--- Don "I may have been 54th at WORLD DIP CON,
				but at least I was there" Del Grande
				(don.delgrande@launchpad.unc.edu)


--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
From: c85perwe@IDA.LiU.SE (Per Westling)
Subject: Postscript map
Reply-To: c85perwe@und.ida.liu.se
Organization: CIS Dept, University of Linkoping, Sweden
Distribution: rec.games.diplomacy
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 15:24:24 GMT

The postscript map is fine.
There is just one catch (for me at least):  I would like to have it
oriented horisentally instead of vertically!  Have tried everything I
could think of (even changing the post script code) but so far no
luck!

--
Per Westling              |
Mardtoprsgatan 15         |  c85perwe@und.ida.liu.se
S-582 48 LINKOPING        |  In praise of Idleness -- Bertrand Russel
SWEDEN                    |
Stuff regarding DPP may be sent to x90perwe@ida.liu.se instead.
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
From: kovar@world.std.com (David C Kovar)
Subject: Re: New Judge and Hall of Fame
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 13:52:28 GMT

In article <By66vL.G9x@watserv2.uwaterloo.ca> nick@sunburn.uwaterloo.ca (Nick Fitzpatrick) writes:
>(names people?  Cambridge
>judge?  Massachussets judge?  EFF judge?  Freedom judge?)


  Personally, I'm for "Freedom judge" or "EFF judge". Calling it
"Kovar judge" is a bit too much. *grin*

-David


Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
From: tarjan@iastate.edu (RC Cola)
Subject: Re: Standard Protocol for Diplomacy
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 16:47:45 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.130926.10037@cs.nott.ac.uk> nlc@vulcan.xtel.co.uk (Neil Cook) writes:
>I am working on an X Interface to Diplomacy, to enable you to point and click 
>your moves, amd see graphically and in colour, where the other players are.
>Also, something like a replay feature where you can see the previous turns 
>moves.
>
>The thing is, it would be nice if there were carefully defined standards for
>the transmission of moves, maps, and listings by:
>
>1) RFC-822
>and
>2) A direct network connection. This could basically consist of sending the 
>email format one line at a time.
>
>
>If this were done, then anyone could write a new interface or judge without
>the protocol changing.
>
>Any comments?
>
>Neil Cook.

Well I have a comment.. When can we get it?
hehe.. Great idea..



Hope it turns out to be a winner.. 

Cya
Scot Kight
tarjan@iastate.edu
From: randall-joshua@yale.edu (Joshua Randall)
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
Subject: Press in Future Judge
Date: 18 Nov 1992 19:38:37 -0500
Organization: Yale University Science & Engineering UNIX(tm), New Haven, CT 06520-2158
NNTP-Posting-Host: minerva.cis.yale.edu

I must argue strongly in favor of allowing partial white press in all
future Judges.  I, like many other people, play in more than one game.
It is immensely useful for me to have a letter that says:  Message
from Italy in game Pillbug, then just a letter that says:  From:  Ben
Lotto (yes, this is a real example).

I think if I understood Ken correctly, the problem wasn't so much in
E-mail as it was in him lacking the time/desire to run the process.

-- 
Joshua E. Randall                       randall-joshua@yale.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
From: belboz@frc2.frc.ri.cmu.edu (Barry Brumitt)
Subject: Re: Thanks to Ken Lowe
Reply-To: belboz@frc2.frc.ri.cmu.edu (Barry  Brumitt)
Organization: Field Robotics Center, CMU
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 19:17:20 GMT

Damn! Just as I found out about the judge, it's going down. Very sad
-- often the work of volunteers such as Ken *does* go unnoticed.

However, there is one significant issue which might affect the
decision to douse the judge.

* Whenever a new online service becomes available, during the first couple
* months it sees a massive surge in usage, which generally trickles off
* after a while, with much of the "transient - whoopee lookit this"
* crowd leaving. Perhaps a few months delay will soften the impact.

Or might limiting the number of games happening at one be feasible?

I'll even see if a spare computer is available around here... but I doubt
it.

Ken, even though I'm only playing Austraia in a game where I'm doomed
to loose - having taken over someone else untenable position, thanks
very much.

Barry




--
Barry Brumitt                        belboz@frc2.frc.ri.cmu.edu
RI Graduate Student                  (or) bb1v@andrew.cmu.edu
Field Robotics Center                Phone: (412) 268-7144
Carnegie Mellon University           "Who is John Galt?" $ Skydive!

Boring Disclaimer: The opinions contained herein do not necessarily
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=  represent those of the FRC, SCS, RI or even CMU. 




Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
From: positron@engin.umich.edu (Jonathan Scott Haas)
Subject: Judge convoy syntax
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 12:29:50 EST
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor

Suppose I've got an army in Liverpool that wants to go to Spain, and
fleets in the Irish Sea and the Mid-Atlantic Ocean. Which of these
sets of orders will work?

Set 1-----
   liverpool -> spain
   irish sea convoy liverpool -> spain
   mid-atlantic ocean convoy liverpool -> spain

Set 2-----
   liverpool -> irish sea -> mid-atlantic ocean -> spain
   irish sea convoy liverpool -> spain
   mid-atlantic ocean convoy liverpool -> spain

Set 3-----
   liverpool -> irish sea -> mid-atlantic ocean -> spain
   irish sea convoy liverpool -> irish sea -> mid-atlantic ocean -> spain
   mid-atlantic convoy liverpool -> irish sea -> mid-atlantic -> spain

-- 
__/\__  Jonathan S. Haas         | Jake liked his women the way he liked
\    /  University of Michigan   | his kiwi fruit: sweet yet tart, firm-
/_  _\  positron@engin.umich.edu | fleshed yet yielding to the touch, and
  \/                             | covered with short brown fuzzy hair.
From: markh@sag4.ssl.berkeley.edu (Mark Hurwitz)
Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing
Subject: Fishing Report: Pacific Ocean (from shore)
Date: 17 Nov 1992 19:36:29 GMT
Organization: Space Science Labs
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: sag4.ssl.berkeley.edu


	After complaining about a lack of California fishing reports,
I feel obliged to post this contribution, although unlike some other postings,
brim full fo references to pools brim full with steelhead, this one is unlikely
to start anyone's heart a-pounding...

	Saturday (11/14), I manfully strode down to the Pacific coast
at Fort Funston, San Francisco, armed with my brand-spanking-new 13' surf rod.
It was a few hours before high tide, and the seas were unusually calm, at least
for this area.

	There were quite a few shore-fishermen, mostly using medium weight
equipment (not heavy duty surf rods) to cast grubby, bass-lure-like things
with sliding sinkers.  I don't really understand why sliding sinkers were
being used, as the technique was simply to cast and retrieve (seems to me
they didn't need the sliding part of the sliding sinker rig).  But I digress.

	The goal, apparently, was to catch surf perch.  I disdained the
grubby technique, as I was eager to try out my new surf rod, and had
brought standard bait-fishing tackle (pyramidal weight, surf leader, hooks,
squid).   Following the advice of an old salt who wandered by, I tied a
4 oz. weight to the end of the surf leader, baited up, and cast out.  I found 
it difficult to cast this large weight for any significant distance - but
did my best.  The main limitation seemed to be how much tension my right
index finger could withstand restraining the line as I swung the rod in an arc.
Perhaps a glove would have helped - how do other people handle this?
Even my best casts landed smack in the middle of crashing waves - no way
was I going to get beyond them.  And as I said, this was a calm day.  I'm
sure I could have thrown a lighter weight a bit farther, but I'm almost
equally certain that a lighter weight would have been dragged hither and
yon by the currents, and would soon have washed ashore!

	Anyway, I caught nothing, but neither did anyone else I saw, so
I didn't feel singled out.  The high point of the morning was when my dog
decided to become entangled in my legs as I was scrambling to avoid an
oncoming wave, hindering my retreat, and causing what was, according to several
eyewitnesses, a highly amusing tumble.

-Mark
Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing
From: rtaylor@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Roger Taylor)
Subject: Re: Fishing line Poll
Keywords: Get your votes in
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 16:48:56 GMT

jphillip@comanche.ess.harris.com (John Phillips) writes:

>How about everyone puting in their 2cents worth on fishing lines. Favorites
>for different applications would be good, but any bad experiences with lines
>may be more telling. Of special interest should be experiences with the new
>co-polimor low-stretch lines and the new ultra-thin lines. I will post my
>faves later.
>              Thanks for your interest,   J.P.

	After a mere forty years fishing, I have become a convinced user
	of co-polimer lines.  Nothing beats braided nylon for low stretch
	castability on a level wind and abraision resistance.  But you 
	can't get it in clear and it's thicker than mono.  

	Trilene XL is probably the limpest and best casting line on the
	market.  BUT its repeated stress and abrasion resistance is too
	low for my kind of fishing.  Trilene XT is tough but too stiff 
	and large diameter for me.  I now use Tri-Max or Silver Thread
	(from Pradco) exclusively.  I do intend to test Trilene's cold
	weather line on some steelhead soon.

	Pradco claims that they are several years ahead of Berkley in line
	development, but you'll get a real argument from Berkley.  The new
	Tri-Max is supposed to be more Flexible and closer to silver thread.
	Don't pay any attention to mfgs. # test ratings.  Measure the diameter
	of the line if it isn't given on the spool.  Then test the breaking
	strength of the lines on your lures with your knots.  If the lines
	consistantly break in the knot, learn to tie better knots.  Then
	run some tests on castability.  That's the only way your going to
	find out what's best for your kind of fishing.

	Roger (I LOVE Sakmania) Taylor

Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing
From: andrewb@lazy.demon.co.uk (Andrew Brown)
Subject: Re: English Chalk Stream Fishing (cost of)
Reply-To: andrewb@lazy.demon.co.uk
Distribution: world
X-Mailer: cppnews $Revision: 1.20 $
Organization: wherever it's like, at.
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1992 14:54:01 +0000

In article <1992Nov10.200320.15701@coe.montana.edu> starkey@cs.montana.edu (Denbigh Starkey) writes:
| In article <1dmajqINNgib@grapevine.EBay.Sun.COM> russell@skid.uk.sun.com writes:
| >
| >A little while ago someone dropped a comment along the lines of
| >	it's cheaper to fish in Montana for a week that on the Test for
| >	a day - flight included
| >That prompted the question of how much it costs to fish the Test et al.
| >Well, I recently came across an authoratative price guide for the best
| >English chalk streams.  For anyone thinking of holidaying here next
| >summer.....
| >Test		80-90
| >etc.
| >All prices are in pounds and are for one day fishing.
| >To put it into perspective, it is normal to pay 20 pounds for a day
| >ticket on a stocked stillwater.
| >
| >Russ Bentley
| 
| The original post, which came from England, has become somewhat mangled
| by occasional requotes over the last couple of months.  What he said, I
| think, was that day fishing was so expensive on the Test that it was
| cheaper to fish for a week in Montana than to fish for a week on the
| Test.  At 80 pounds per day, this is still probably true, including
| flights from Gatwick to Bozeman, assuming that one doesn't spend too much
| on housing in Montana.

As the original poster, I endorse every word of this comment. You really
would not know, from any Chalk-stream open to the public, that these were
once wild fisheries in which only fingerling trout were stocked. The stretch
that Orvis have on the Itchen is a particularly sad example, it seems to me:
I used to fish it opccasionally when they first had it, and the stocking
policy was still as befpore, and it was wonderful. Last time I was there it
was run like a corporate pheasant shoot.

--
Andrew Brown                    | email abrown@cix.compulink.co.uk|
Religious Affairs Correspondent | phone +44-71-253-1222 xt 1682   |
The Independent                 |---------------------------------|
London, England                 | I'm not paid to have opinions   |
From: terryt@tekig5.pen.tek.com (Terry A Turner)
Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing
Subject: Re: Outcome of Oregon GillNet Refferendum sought?
Date: 17 Nov 92 15:22:48 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton,  OR.

In article <1992Nov17.002409.14190@news.Hawaii.Edu> bill@gaza.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (William J. King) writes:
>
>Aynone know the outcome of the Oregon Gillnet Referendom of Nov 3rd?
>
>
>--
>    bill@uhunix.bitnet 
>    bill@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu 
>    21.19 N.LAT by 157.52 W.LONG          
>    Fish on the Byte


	Sadly Measure #8 which was intended to ban gillnetting in favor of
	the "most selective method avaliable" was defeated by a rather 
	large margin at the polls.  The gillnet and other commercial and
	charter fishermen poured more money and some well placed but slanted
	TV commercials that convinced people that it wasn't such a good idea.
	No TV ads ran supporting the measure, or none that I saw.

	I believe the measure was confusing and people that were not 
	familiar with the issue would not know that it was targeted at 
	elliminating the gillnets, since the "G" word did not appear in
	the measure language anywhere.  I believe this was done so as not
	to appear to pick on the gillneters but made the issue confusing to
	the casual voter.

	So now the legislative route has failed (2 bills never got out of
	committee) as well as the initiative route.  I'm not sure what 
	the next course of action is.  The big problem is that the 
	commercial industry is much more focused and able to produce more
	financial support than the sportsfishing/conservation groups.  I
	suspect when the analysis is done there will be another intiative 
	drive with a measure that is more clearly written.

	So keep an eye out for that next intiative pettition and sign 
	early and often :*).

	Terry

--
Terry Turner		   If people paid more attention to the really
terryt@tekig5.pen.tek.com  important things in life, there would be a serious
503-627-5630               shortage of fishing poles. 
Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing
From: rpark@stam.QE.Bell.CA (Richard Park)
Subject: Re: Steelhead Cost
Reply-To: rpark@stam.bell.ca
Organization: CER, Bell Canada
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 16:19:38 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.170102.23474@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>, dixon@spot.Colorado.EDU (Life is real?) writes:
|>
|> A lot of the steelhead streams get 40+ or even more fish holding in the holes
|> ...it just depends on the time of the run, the current sequence of weather/water
|> events, etc.  For example, a couple of weeks ago, you could've gone to the
|> upper Siletz (Oregon) and seen this same phenomenum...hint: make sure you've
|> got good tires before you attempt this trip!  Oh yeah, it's a little late now,
|> the fish would be too dark.  But there's always next year!
|> 
|> BD
|> 
You are absolutely right. However, pools that hold 40+ bows for several months are
unique. This pool is unique because the fish have been siiting there for 1 month.
They may not be the same fish but independant of the water level or color the bows
are there. The reason is that where the bows are sitting is 4-5 feet deep and 20
feet wide and 70 yards from the mouth. Above this pool it is a creek (4 feet wide,
not deep). The bows probably venture up but they will come back and hold in the
pool. These bows are spring spawners so they will sit here till spring. The pool
was recommended by a friend (native indian) who lives/fishes there.
-- 
Richard Park	
Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing
From: cloyd_j@apollo.hp.com (John Cloyd)
Subject: re : Arrrrrrgh...
Originator: cloyd_j@face_plant
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 20:34:10 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Apollo Division - Chelmsford, MA


>tomg@cv.hp.com:
>We were filming a fishing video last year during the Deschutes (Oregon)
>Salmon Fly Hatch.   It was obvious what they feeding on, right ? 

Muddlers, same as always right ? :->

>Wrong.  While everyone else was tossing stoneflies, we were tossing
>subsurface mayflies and doing much better than most.   It was a brief
>stomach pump session that gave us the clue.   Stomach pumping is
>extreme compared to all other methods, but it still has its place.
> 
>Thomas Gilg
>tomg@cv.hp.com

    Hi Tom ! Please excuse my anthropomorphism. Stomach pumps bum me out, 
probably because I've had my own pumped (don't ask :-<). My real question,
which was apparantly very cleverly disguised, was if pumping has an impact 
on C&R mortality, and if so if it wouldn't be just as wise to just kill
the fish, inspect it and eat it, rather than risk having it die later ?
If it doesn't, then pump away, by geezum! 

"At various times in my life I've had this dream of this huge, beautiful
fish, just inside casting range, eating the only thing I couldn't imitate.
I fumble through pattern after pattern after pattern, but get only rejects.
It's an awful dream, really, and may explain why I usually only carry
a single pattern with me - if they take my fly I can proudly attribute
it to the quality of the presentation. If not, they just weren't hungry
today."
       - from my future book, "Flyfishing For the Simple Minded"

                                                      jc in me.

Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing
From: jts@ginny.ece.cmu.edu (John T. Stonick)
Subject: Re: Fishing line preferences
Organization: Electrical and Computer Engineering, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 15:54:08 GMT

In article <46112@ogicse.ogi.edu> barga@ogicse.cse.ogi.edu (Roger S. Barga) writes:
>
>Berkeley Trilene - arghhh!  I made the mistake of replacing my line 
>mid-season with Trilene (they were out of Maxima) without increasing
>the pound-test rating.  I lost three fall chinook due to the line 
>simply snapping.  Last summer I went summer steelhead fishing and once
>again I bought the wrong line - #6 Trilene.  Again, I lost fish due
>to line breaks while other fishermen were landing them on the same 
>pound-test or lighter - they were both using Maxima.
>
>- Roger.
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>o Light line, light drag, and large a large spool of fresh line.

I would just like to point out that many people are mislead by the lb
test ratings on lines.  Do not judge a line by its "lb test rating",
judge it by its diameter. I imagine that the reason that 6lb maxima
is as strong as 8 lb berkely XL is because they have similar actual
breaking strengths.  Remember, just because I take my whiteout and
remove the 0 from my spool of 20 lb test does not mean that I am now
using 2 lb test. Unless you compare knot strength, stiffness, abrasion
resistance all per diameter you are not making a meaningful judgement.
Remember a fish only sees the thickness of the line in the water, it
does not get out and look in your tackle box for the lb test rating on
the spool.  As one case in point I think that 10 lb berkely XT has an
actual breaking strength of about 17 lbs.  Therefore an accurate
comparison would probably be berkely XT 10lb and berkely XL 15 lb. 


-- 

jts@ginny.cmu.edu 
John "fish tremble when they hear my name" Stonick