From: ajs9462@zeus.tamu.edu (SIMON, ANTHONY JOE)
Subject: Re: Oswald's motions in the TSBD after the assassination.
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 22:37:00 GMT

Tony Simon >> & >>>>
Bruce Schuck > & >>>

>>Finally, Roffman settles for 70 seconds for a minimum time for Truly and Baker
>>to get to the second floor. It might also have taken as much as 85 seconds.
>
>>Now, we could argue back and forth on this issue forever, but I understand
>>Roffman's arguments for how long things took, but he made assumptions that
>>can't be proven either one way or the other. For instance, he assumes that
>>Oswald hadn't made the hiding place for the gun ahead of time.
>
>>So, the answer to "is it possible for Oswald to have made it to the kitchen
>>before Baker and Truly arrived?" is "yes" from the way I see things.
>
>Is it also just as likely he couldn't have made it to the 2nd floor
>before Baker and Truly? The answer is a more emphatic yes.

The answer is yes to both questions and "more emphatic" means little here.

>>However, maybe he heard Truly and Baker coming up the stairs and thought that
>>they might have heard him coming down the other staircase. So, he paused in
>>the vestibule to consider what might happen if he raced down the corridor.
>
>What? If he heard Baker and Truly while on the stairs, then they would
>have heard him.

No. Oswald didn't want to be caught. This provided him with a reason for trying
to be quiet on the stairs. Baker and Truly had no such reason. So, it was
possible for Baker and Truly to not hear Oswald while Oswald heard them.

>If he didn't hear them until in the vestibule, then he was alreay home free.
>Walking down a corridor is not going to make much noise if any.
>

But Oswald might not have been sure that they didn't hear him come down the
stairs, therefore, he may have decided to act calm, like nothing happened.

>>Maybe he "wasted" a few seconds pulling the door closed. Sure, it had an
>>automatic closing mechanism, but if you pull on those, you can make them
>>close faster. Or he might have felt that it was better to act calm, go get a
>>coke (why didn't he buy a Dr. Pepper), and then walk out of the building.
>
>Your 'guesses' as to what Oswald did lack all credibility.
>

Why do I lack credibility? Becuase I can come up with reasonable arguments
that do not support your claims that Oswald was innocent? Remember, we do
not know what Oswald did exactly, or why he did what he did. I am attempting
to argue that there are possible reasons for what happened.

>>>Carolyn Arnold was pregnant on Nov 22, and remembers having a craving
>>>for a glass of water. She saw Oswald in the 1st floor lunchroom at
>>>"about 12:15. It may have been slightly later."
>>>   -- Anthony Summers "Conspiracy" p 108
>>>
>
>>According to Roffman pp 185-186 Carolyn Arnold claimed to see Oswald around
>>12:15 on the first floor. From the FBI report:
>
>If you start believing in the FBI, you are in real trouble.
>
>Mrs. Arnold makes it clear the FBI deliberately misquoted her
>testimony.

Did the FBI deliberately misquote her statement that said she came downstairs
at 12:25 while three people who came downstairs with her said it was 12:15
and one other said it was 12:20? Or is Roffman lying? I noticed that you
didn't comment on that part of Roffman's book. So, if Roffman is telling the
truth and if Mrs. Arnold was that uncertain as to the time, maybe she actually
saw Oswald (if she did at all) around 12:05.

>
>>"she was in her office on the second floor of the building on November 22,
>>1963, and left that office between 12:00 and 12:15 PM, to go downstairs and
>>stand in front of the building to view the Presidential Motorcade. As she was
>>standing in front of the building, she stated that she thought she caught a
>>fleeting glimpse of LEE HARVEY OSWALD standing in the hallway between the frnt>door and the double doors leading into the warehouse, located on the first
>>floor. She could not be sure this was OSWALD, but said she felt it was and
>>believed the time to be a few minutes before 12:15 PM."
>
>>Now, of course, this is an FBI paraphrase of her statements, but note the
>>phrases "thought she caught a fleeting glimpse" and "she felt is
>was".
>
>Carolyn Arnold was interviewed by Anthony Summers. She made very clear
>to him that she actually saw Oswald in the 1st floor lunchroom at
>12:15 or later. The FBI misquoted her to weaken Oswalds alibi.
>

So, Summers and Roffman are at odds with one another. I certainly can't believe
both of them.

>
>>Let's say (for the sake of argument) that Oswald was down on the 1st floor at
>>12:15, does that prevent him from being on the 6th floor at 12:30. No.
>
>He was also seen at 12:20 on the 1st floor.
>

By whom?

>Witnesses outside the TSBD saw a man or men moving on the 6th floor
>with rifles as early as 12:15. Oswald couldn't have been in two places
>at once.
>

By whom? Actually, I know of only one witness (Arnold Rowland). Can you name
others?

>>>
>>>Under interrogation, Oswald said two black employees walked through
>>>the 1st floor lunchroom while he was eating. He said one was name
>>>"Junior" and the other was "short" -- he didn't remember his name.
>>>
>>>Between 12:20 and 12:25 two black men, "Junior" Jarman and Harold
>>>Norman [who was "short"] walked through the 1st floor lunchroom on the
>>>way upstairs to watch the motorcade.
>>>   -- Summers pp 106-107
>>>
>>>Do YOU have any sources who place Oswald on the 6th floor later than
>>>12:15/12:20 ?
>
>>But Roffman (p 183) puts Jarman and Norman on the first floor between 12:00
>>and 12:15. So, I concede that Oswald might have been of the first floor
>>between 12:00 and 12:15.
>
>Jarman and Norman strolled through the lunchroom between 12:20 and
>12:25 on the way upstairs to watch the motorcade. Thats when Oswald
>saw them. He would have had to have ESP to know they did that if he
>really wasn't in the lunchroom as late as 12:20/12:25.
>

Where do you get Oswald's statement that he saw them as they were strolling
upstairs? Why couldn't it have been when they were walking out to the sidewalk,
which means that the time is earlier than 12:20/12:25? Did Jarman and Norman
say that they saw Oswald while on their way up to the 5th floor?

>> Again, does this prevent Oswald from being on the
>>6th floor at 12:30? No.
>
>No. But Arnold Rowland saw two men on the 6th floor at 12:15, one with
>a rifle. They obviously were not Lee Harvey Oswald if he was still in
>the 1st floor lunchroom.
>

The other was probably Williams who ate his lunch there and then went down to
the 5th floor around 12:20. I still see no direct evidence of Lee being on the
1st floor at 12:15.

>Rowland brought his wifes attention to the two men, and fixes the time
>because a police radio squwked out the news that hte motorcade was at
>Cedar Springs Road. The log shows this to have happened between 12:15
>and 12:16.
>
>>No one can say they saw Oswald on the 6th floor after 12:15 with 100%
>>certainty.
>
>*Nobody* saw Oswald on the 6th floor after 11:55.
>

Maybe Brennan did see him. He saw somebody who looked like Oswald. Again, he
couldn't be 100% certain. Is Carolyn Arnold 100% sure that she saw him later
than 12:15 pm? Especially when she said that she went downstairs at 12:25 and
others said it was 12:15?

>Witnesses did see men with guns at 12:15 when Oswald was eating lunch.
>

Who other than Arnold? Arnold told his wife that he saw someone at the
window and she looked up and saw no one.

>> Brennan described a man who looked like Oswald at the window.
>>But that's the best that can be done. However, do you think that a gunman
>>would make himself accessible to be viewed? Also, can anyone say where Oswald
>>was between 12:20 and 12:30 with absolute certainty? If so, let me know.
>
>But do *you* have any witnesses putting Oswald on any staircase or
>elevator after 12:20, which happens to be *after* men were spotted on
>the 6th floor.

Do you have any witnesses that put Oswald anywhere else in the building from
12:15 to 12:30. Sure you've got Carolyn Arnold, but it appears to me that
she didn't really know what time it was if/when she saw him. Anyway,
no, I do not have a witness who can say for 100% certain that Oswald was on
the 6th floor after 12:20. However, that in itself does not prove that he
wasn't there. If guilt was only determined by who was seen at what time, then
few murder cases would be solved.

>
>Since their are witnesses giving Oswald an alibi up til 12:20, and
>witnesses who saw gunmen on the 6th floor as early as 12:15, Oswald is
>certainly innocent in my eyes.

That is your opinion.

The way I see it. . . Oswald came downstairs around noon. A man named Piper said
he saw and talked to Oswald at that time. Oswald ate lunch quickly and saw
Jarman and Norman head out of the building between 12:00 and 12:10 (Norman's
statement). Oswald then went upstairs and was possibly seen by Carolyn Arnold
(I say possibly, because I am not convinced that she did see him). He reached
the 6th floor and made his way to the sniper's nest making careful to not be
seen by Williams. Possibly he made his way along the North and East walls.
According to Williams, he could only see to the west and to the back (north)
from where he sat. Oswald then got into the nest and waited. While there, he
was seen by Arnold. A few minutes later, Williams left the floor to go to the
5th floor. Then Oswald was seen at ~12:30 by Brennan and Euins as he fired the
last shot. Oswald then made his getaway.

Tony Simon
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