From: evan@telly.on.ca (Evan Leibovitch)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: Scenes We'd Like to See
Date: 15 Oct 92 14:39:50 GMT
	<Bw2qwt.Jzq@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
Organization: Somewhere just far enough out of Toronto

In article <Bw2qwt.Jzq@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
	dbowman@shade (Don A. Bowman) writes:

>Gerald Olchowy (golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca) wrote:
>: 
>: Clark is the absolutely worst kind of politician...a man who was
>: interested in politics and power for the sake of politics and power.
>: [...] There is no principle he will
>: not sacrifice for expediency and the approval of others.  Being liked,
>: for Clark, is more important than getting something right.

>Essentially what you mean is "I don't like what Joe Clark is fighting for.

Nope. The point is "I don't like the way Joe Clark chooses what to fight
for, and that makes the causes he supports suspect."

>Therefore I will insult him personally. " Instead of facing the issues, you
>stab him in the back.

Stab in the back? Heh. The more I study the accord, the more I take it
as a personal stab in the back, hurled by all of its architects.

>I think a man of personal integrity and a former Prime
>Minister deserves better than this.

I see a distinct lack of similar support in light of all the Trudeau
bashing going 'round here. Care to be consistent?

>Clark was selected for Unity Minister
>precisely because he had the most credibility. He was untainted by the
>scandals that plagued most of the cabinet.

Maybe, but he had already been tainted as a former Prime Minister whose
mercifully-short reign was marked by incompetence and waffling (eg, moving
the Israeli embassy to Jerusalem, etc.). Not to mention the stupid way his
government fell...

I still have books full of political cartoons depicting Clark
with his mittens sown into his coats. He became a walking joke,
a sort of Canadian version of Gerald Ford.

>Do you honestly think Clark took
>the job to make people like him?

Um, yes. I'm convinced that Clark wants to be seen by history as the
architect of the wonderful deal that brought everyone together, no matter
what the cost to the national psyche. At very least, he wanted to erase
the public perception of him as a political boob.

>Joe Clark will
>gain no political capital from being Unity minister.

If successful, Clarks would be a/the main power broker in determining
who succeeds Mulroney. He may even be dumb enough to take a run at the
leadership again. In the inevitable event that Mulroney resigns
(probably before the next federal election), Clark will hold a *lot* of
sway over who comes next.

>All he seems to get is
>revilement from the likes of you. You who could do no better.

The travelling roadshow on the constitution had already done far better,
but its interests were trashed when the agreement was left to a dozen
(or so) people in closed rooms.

>You who simply
>put down everything anybody other than yourself derives. I think it is highly
>unfair to personally attack someone in a medium in which they cannot respond.

Public statements made by Clark, Mulroney and other proponents of the
deal certainly constitute attacks on a great many people who don't like
the deal, usually in a medium in which the targets of the attack cannot
easily respond.

>This kind of hate mail would be better addressed to Joe Clark himself, rather
>than to us on the net.

While it's a bit extreme, I'd say it's relevant because it goes to the
motivations and driving forces behind the chief architect of the accord.
If it can be demonstrated that the accord was driven by appeasement
rather than leadership, then that better explains why the accord says
what it does.

>Your verbal diarrhea just goes on and on.

Obviously, personal attacks aren't limited to Gerald. You complain that
he attacks the person rather than the arguments, then stoop to the same
tactic yourself. Wonderful....

>: Bob Rae is essentially a clone of Clark, although Rae had slightly more
>: integrity to stay in the party he belongs.

I would disagree here. Rae has stood steadfastly by the unions which
brought him to power, despite attracting the animosity of the business
community. The current proposed labour laws in Ontario, which is the
target of an elaborate and expensive media campaign, are hardly the work
of someone unprincipled whose only interest is appeasement. I may not
like most of his convictions, but at least he has some.

>: Mulroney will rue the
>: day he entrusted his political future to this duo

Um, Mulroney has too many other days to rue... this is just another one
of them days :-).

>Here again you attack Bob Rae based on your opinions and heresy.

Heresy? HERESY? Where's the Church Police when you need them?

Damn.

Oops, I meant darn.

-- 
 Evan Leibovitch, Sound Software Ltd., located in beautiful Brampton, Ontario
         evan@telly.on.ca / uunet!utzoo!telly!evan / (416) 452-0504
         "IBM's three letters are probably EBCDIC for CYA" - Nik H.
Newsgroups: can.politics,can.general,soc.culture.canada