HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: wildman@athena.mit.edu (Timothy Worsley)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
Subject: Re: TERMINATOR II
Date: 24 Jul 92 00:53:20 GMT
Reply-To: eprice@sql.sybase.com
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

In article <1992Jul23.143604.24483@wam.umd.edu> mbrown@wam.umd.edu
(Michael A. Brown) writes:
>In article <1992Jul23.070137.23438@athena.mit.edu> eprice@sql.sybase.com writes:
>[among other things....]
>
>>....obviously I want something with the qualities that appealed to me
>>originally.
>>
>>Does this help explain it?
>>
>>-Ed Price             (not Tim Worsely)
>
>No.  I understand the point of your analogy, and I think I get where you're
>coming from....

Well, then it *did help explain it, didn't it?!

>BUT, do you think you could specifically LIST what those qualities were
>about the original, which you felt were lacking from T2?

I can give you one (one of the main ones): horror.  The original was a
nice blend of horror, action and science fiction.  T2 lost the horror.

Something T2 had that the original lacked is the character of the kid.
This is another reason I prefer the original.  I really liked the
supporting cast, especially Paul Winfield and Lance Henriksen.  The
whining MTV-watching mall-rat little kid (with Arnold his pet
`Terminator', in quotes because it obviously has nothing to do with
what was called a Terminator in the first movie) was not an
improvement, for me at least.

There are less easy-to-define issues that make the first one more
enjoyable to me as well, like pacing, camera work, imagery and
symbolism (it's blatant but least it's there, and it's consistent),
etc.  But I cannot easily describe this, just as I cannot really
describe why I am affected so differently by Keith Jarrett's piano
playing as compared to, say, George Winston's.  Or why I prefer Blind
Idiot God to any number of so-called "heavy metal" bands.  Or, well to
get back to film :-), the first EVIL DEAD to the second (and again,
the original was more of a horror movie than EVIL DEAD II, which
emphasised comedy).

>Can you give a serious, well-thought, well-written critical analysis of
>why you did not like T2?

I have thought of a truly remarkable analysis of T2 but unfortunately
this article is too small to contain it.

What are you, my Film Studies professor or something? :-)

Ed Price              (not Tim Worsely) `Victor, nettoyeur.'
eprice@sql.sybase.com (not wildman@...)
From: jasonf@wayfarer.EBay.Sun.COM (Jason Freund)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
Subject: The Player -- Could someone repost a review?
Date: 27 Jul 92 23:07:58 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: wayfarer.ebay.sun.com

I missed any reviews that may have been posted about "The Player".  If anyone
has a copy of any review, please email it to me or -- this is also an 
invitation to write and post your own review if none have been posted here 
or to r.a.m.r.

Thanks,
--------------------------------Summer Address------------------///----------
Jason Freund           jasonf@wayfarer.EBay.Sun.COM            ///
690 Erie Dr.           408-276-???? (Work)                 \\\///     
Sunnyvale, CA  94087   408-732-0421 (Home)                  \XX/ Amiga 3000 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
From: rlwilliams@gallua.gallaudet.edu
Subject: Re: Christopher Walken
Organization: Gallaudet University
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 21:45:53 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.152315.1@gallua.gallaudet.edu>, rlwilliams@gallua.gallaudet.edu writes:
> In article <1992Jul21.152615.20252@cbnewse.cb.att.com>, gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart) writes:
>> In article <1992Jul20.145613.1@gallua.gallaudet.edu>, rlwilliams@gallua.gallaudet.edu writes:
>> 
>> [ discussion of Walken deleted ]
>> 
>>> > 	A not widely known short (hour long for HBO if I remember
>>> > correctly) is "Who Am I Now?" with Walken and Susan Sarandon.  Quite good
>> 
>> [....]
>> 
>>> was called "who am I this time," but no matter. Since I don't get cable, and I
>>> did see it, I think it was on PBS rather than HBO. anyway it's one of my
>>> favorites.
>> 
>> So tell me.  What was it about?  Also, I don't remember what part
>> Walken played in The Graduate.
>> 
>> GMS
> 
> -----------
> I'm pretty sure Walken played... somebody's half crazed older brother.
> Now I'm not sure if it was the graduate... Now I'm wondering if it was Love
> Story...  
> B. Who am I this time" is about a small town theater group who puts on a
> different show every summer. Walken played a VERY shy man who was recruited to
> play the lead in A Streetcar Named Desire. Once into the role he becomes
> transformed into the part, almost becoming Brando. when he leaves the role he
> reverts to his shy "clark kent" personna. There's also a sweet love story in
> there...  Worth looking for.
> 
> rlwilliams
====
I've just been graciously informed that Walken played Diane Keaton's crazy
younger brother in Annie Hall.  Not the Graduate. Not Love Story. 

(Never mind)

rlwilliams
From: wmc@torpedo.uucp (Bill Cornette)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
Subject: Re: The Rapture ** SPOILER ** (but you won't want to see this movie)
Date: 29 Jul 92 16:40:33 GMT
Organization: Photon Research Associates, Inc.




*****************************SPOILERS*****************************************



eiscoop3@bmerh52.bnr.ca (Robert McAulay) writes:
: I noticed in the Siskel & Ebert top ten lists that Ebert listed 'The Rapture'
: as one of his favourite films in the last few years.  I saw this recently
: and was so turned off by it I can't even remember if I finished watching it.
: 
: What the hell was this?  Some gratuitous sex at the start to attract the 
: viewers and then some disconnected, badly acted and horribly frustrating
: scenes to finish.  I remember that the idea interested me at first, the 
: imminent return of God and the fact that only a select group of people knew
: about it, but then it deteriorated into... I don't know what.  
: 
: Any comments out there?  Did anyone like this movie?  Did anyone get a coherent
: message out of it?  I'd like to know what Ebert saw in it.

	My wife picked it up recently at the video store -- largely based on
the fact that Mimi Rogers was in it.  We both like "odd" movies and as such
run up against some real bombs.  We sort of informally keep score of who has
gotten the most bombs -- and which ones are the worst -- The Rapture was 
definitely in contention as the worst of all times -- right there with
Lemonade Joe (a Czech-made American western of the early 70's).  You forgot
to mention that after determining that God (the Rapture) was coming, Mimi
Rogers and her daughter go out into the Mojave, live out of garbage cans,
and then Mimi shoots her daughter so that she could be with "God" sooner.
When the Rapture finally does come, Mimi is so dienchanted with God and
having killed her daughter (who she sees at the River Jordan), that she
refuses to cross over the river and stay on the "wrong" side for eternity.

	Yes, a very, very bad movie.  I wonder what Ebert thought he saw in
it.  Usually, I find his opinions a little more to my liking.  Oh, well.

Bill Cornette
photon!wmc@ucsd.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
From: hafner@ifi.unizh.ch (Michel Hafner)
Subject: Re: Anyone heard of "The Mistress"?
Organization: University of Zurich, Department of Computer Science
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 92 15:17:46 GMT

In article <24JUL199209295046@uhccvx> rpeeler@uhccvx (Russ Peeler) writes:
>I was watching "Night After Night" on the comedy channel and Allen Havey (sp?)
>was interviewing Robert Wuhl.   I think the show was a repeat from around 
>the time of the LA riots (lots of references to the "recent" verdict).  
>Anyway, Wuhl mentioned that he had recently finished a movie called "The 
>Mistress" with Robert DeNiro, Danny Aiello, and Eli Wallach.  It sounded 
>really good.  My question is has this film been released.  I'm living in 
>Hilo, HI and movies have a nasty habit of avoiding the theatres around 
>here.  So, has it been released, will it be released soon?

"Mistress" is playing in Europe now. It's like the recent "The Player" a film
about Hollywood and what it does to people. Spoilers ahead...

Robert Wuhl plays a unsuccessful screenwriter that is approached one day by a
not much less unsuccessful producer ( Martin Landau ) that likes one of his
old scripts ( about a painter that commits suicide ). To get the film financed
they try to coax money out of different people ( Robert de Niro, Eli Wallach,
Danny Aiello ) and have to deal with their demands ( There has to be a role for
my girlfriend..., suicide is too depressing.... ) and soon the script is almost
unrecognizable. Watch out for Christopher Walken in the role of an actor that
goes too far.
The film is too long and ultimately unsatisfying. The good supporting cast
can not make you forget that Wuhl can't carry a picture on his own.
							M.H.

Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
From: cb366@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark B. Bendiksen)
Subject: Re: Favorite musicals
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 20:39:19 GMT


Regarding Ed Suranyi's post on favorite musicals, here are some
of mine that weren't on his list:

I'll second Jeff Davis's vote on _Singin' in the Rain_, probably
the best musical of all time, and certainly the funniest. For
any of you fuddy-duddy geeks out there who haven't seen the flick
and shudder at the very thought of sitting through a musical
(heaven forbid!), you're really missing out if you haven't seen
it. Donald O'Connor's "Make 'em Laugh" number is worth the price
of a video rental, and I can safely say that I laugh more each
time I watch this film, certainly more than I do while watching
most so-called comedies out in theaters now.

_Cabaret_ is fantastic, freaky, and enjoyably unpleasant (yes,
I said enjoyably unpleasant). Joel Grey is wonderfully funky
as the MC, and even Liza Minelli is tolerable in her role.
Director Bob Fosse creates fantastic atmosphere.

While we're on the subject of Bob Fosse, _All That Jazz_ is 
also one of the best musicals of the past several decades.
The story is fascinating as well as haunting and the musical
numbers (the airline comercial, "Bye Bye Love" with Ben
Vereen) are spectacular.

In the more traditional musical section, I would also recommend
_The Music Man_ (fun, enjoyable fluff).

Regarding Ed Suranyi's pick of _West Side Story_, it's also one
of my favorites, but the two leads (Richard Beymer, Natalie
Wood) are definitely drawbacks to the film. I agree that Wood's
final speech is a heart-tugger, but throughout most of the film
she simply lacks the needed charisma for the role. It doesn't
help that her singing was dubbed. (I'm sorry, that always annoys
me. If you're going to pick a lead for a musical, please pick
someone who can sing for themselves, Geeesh!) However, the
supporting players (Rita Moreno, etc.) were top-notch and the
choreography was nothing short of spectacular. So those factors
more than make up for any of the film's weak points.

Mark B. Bendiksen
cb366@freenet.cwru.edu
-- 
"If we don't get some cool rules ourselves, pronto,
 We'll just be bogus, too."-- Dr. Jeff Spicolli
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
From: reiher@ficus.cs.ucla.edu (Peter Reiher)
Subject: Re: The Vanishing
Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 16:42:32 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.013701.1052@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> thomason@feldspar.egr.msu.edu (Faran Thomason) writes:
>Although I am getting sick of Americans remaking
>quality foriegn films. Why not just allow forign films to get a better release pattern and
>promotion. If we can export all our films all around the world, forign films should become
>a staple in our theaters.

The view in Hollywood is that Americans will not go to see films that do
not feature American stars.  (Or foreigners who have become "American"
stars by appearing in lots of American films, like Arnold Schwarzenegger.)
There may be some truth to this view.  A fine film like "One False Move",
which is in English, that gets dozens of tremendous reviews is likely to make 
far less money than a potboiler like "Unlawful Entry".  There are really only 
two reasons why - one is that "Unlawful Entry" has "name stars", the other is 
the vast difference in the amount of money spent promoting the two films.  The 
Hollywood position is that the first reason is the predominating one.
I have some doubts.  I'd like to see some studio or releasing organization
take a foreign language film with a strong chance at popularity, dub it
well (I prefer subtitles, but the vast bulk of the American public won't
go to subtitled films), and spend a lot of money opening it wide and
promoting it.  This kind of strategy has worked in the past.  Joseph E. Levine
made millions this way off "Hercules", in the early 1960's, without even
bothering to give it a good dubbing job.  I think, for instance, that
"Peking Opera Blues", or "The Killer", or "A Better Tomorrow", could
easily make $20-$40 million, given good dubbing and a proper advertising
campaign.

But the bulk of the quality foreign language films indeed would not
be popular successes in the U.S., even with this strategy.  They don't
feature lots of action and violence, nor comedy of the belly-laugh
variety, nor spiffy special effects, and those are the elements that
tend to make for big successes in American films.  They tend to feature
small, interesting stories about unusual people, and those sorts of
films don't tend to make lots of money in the U.S., whatever language
they are in.

--
		Peter Reiher
		reiher@ashby.cs.ucla.edu

Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
From: mccreary@sword.eng.hou.compaq.com (Ed McCreary)
Subject: Re: REVIEW: COOL WORLD
Keywords: author=Good
Organization: Compaq Computer Corp.
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 18:16:34 GMT

In article <1992Jul20.234750.4143@kd4dts.dixie.com> jcw@kd4dts.dixie.com (John C. Wren) writes:
>Well, I've ignored the Cool World thread up to now, because I didn't want a 
>spoiler.  However, I saw it this weekend, and heres my few thoughts, like
>them or not.
>

...stuff deleted...
>
>6)  And finally, to the folks that said it was a rip-off of Roger Rabbit.  Yea,
>    in some respects.  It really *is* only the second major film to combine
>    raw animation with real people.  So yea, you could say that.  In reality,
>    its a new form of the art, and I'm sure we'll see more of it.  I'm 
>    particularly waiting for computer-animation mixed with live folks.  Right
>    now, it's still coarse.  It takes some decent acting ability (which some
>    of the people in the movie didn't have), to act as if you're interacting
>    with something thats there, and isn't.  This was clear where the detective
>    had his arm around the brunettes shoulders.  Didn't look right.  Oh well.
>

Surely you don't mean that.  How about _Mary Poppins_?  _Anchors Aweigh_
and _Song of the South_ also come to mind.  Now, Roger Rabbit took
it to levels never before achieved as far as realistic interaction
between the characters go, but it was far from the first attempt.

--
McCreary@sword.eng.hou.compaq.com     Computers are like Old Testament gods;
Me? Speak for Compaq?  Yeah, right.   lots of rules and no mercy.
"By this time my lungs were aching for air..."               Joseph Campbell
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Subject: Re: TERMINATOR II
Organization: AT&T
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 22:22:04 GMT

In article <2543@nlsun1.oracle.nl>, gbradley@uks197.Berkeley.EDU (Gary Bradley) writes:
> tedk@jpl.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Ted Ko) writes...
> 
> > I think that's the first time I've heard anyone say they really disliked T2.
> > Personally, I put it in my top ten of all time.  What about it was so bad
> > that it deserves comparison with Highlander 2?
> 
>    Neither of them has much of a plot to speak of. T2 was saved by
> special effects and superbly staged action sequences, H2 was not. I
> would say T2 is in my top 10 "movies for sheer entertainment" list
> (along with Star Wars, Day of the Dead, Evil Dead etc), but way way down
> in my "really great film" list (Vertigo, It's a Wonderful Life, Citizen
> Kane, Bicycle Thiefs, Kind Hearts and Coronets etc) if you see what I mean.
> 
>   Such is the odd personality traits one picks up from studying Film &
> Television at university.

I can see your point, but is it really ignorance that makes people
think T2 was a great movie?

Also, I agree with much of your list, and consider Wonderful Life
as a personal favorite, but what is it that makes it so much more
complicated (or "rich in plot") than T2?  Transformation of human
character is in both, but WL is a simpler film in my opinion.  Being
a Capra film and in B&W may make it show up in more classrooms, however.
Make it 2005 before a university student can expect to see it in 
class.

GMS
From: andrew.cmu.edu!km2a+@overmind.mind.org
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
Subject: Re: Bill Forsyth and Housekeeping
Date: 22 Jul 92 23:14:00 GMT
Organization: Robotics Institute, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
X-mailer: Stadel 3.4a-227
X-Spam-content: irrelevant

On 20-Jul-92 in Bill Forsyth and Housekeeping
user Sharon Fenick@husc10.har writes:
>>[someone's looking for Housekeeping]
> I know it's out on video too, because I've recently been on a Bill
>Forsyth hunt - a largely unsucessful one, because the real point of my 
search
>is _Comfort and Joy_ which I can't find anywhere.  Does anyone know if it's
>out or not?  Should I just stop calling places? 

I saw Comfort and Joy on tape. It's there. Keep looking.

Good luck,
    ken


#ken mohnkern # the graphics deli # the robotics institute #
              # carnegie mellon university # pittsburgh pa #
#   "It's not the thing you fling, but the fling itself."  #
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
From: braca2@cspyr1.cs.adfa.oz.au (BRAY CHRISTOPHER)
Subject: Re: ST6: New Footage
Organization: Australian Defence Force Academy, Canberra, Australia
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 23:30:10 GMT

From article <17490134@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM>, by rjn@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Bob Niland):
> In rec.arts.movies, bo@hpfcmgw.FC.HP.COM (Bo Viger) writes:
> 
>   3) Shortly after the Kirk and McCoy arrest, a meeting is held
> at federation headquarters in which a rescue plan is shown.
>
  Pretty sure this scene was shown in the Australian release.

>   Another snippet in the disk which I don't remember seeing in the
> movie, although, again, it seems to fit perfectly, is a quick
> scene right after the Klingons beam aboard the Enterprise.
>    They are led away from the transporter room, and two of
> the technicions get into a discussion of Klingon body odor,
> and make a comment aabout how showers are not a common
> item aboard Klingon vessels - at which point they are rudely
> interrupted by Lt. what's-her-name...
>

	Again this scene was definately in the Australian release.


hook

Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
From: wallis@ils.nwu.edu (Mindy Wallis)
Subject: Re: favorite movie musicals
Organization: The Institute for the Learning Sciences
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 16:43:23 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.093142.1@gallua.gallaudet.edu> rlwilliams@gallua.gallaudet.edu writes:
>Ah, one other one of my favorites...but the name is escaping me... it was the
>musical version of "the Philadelphia Story" and starred Bing Crosby, Grace
>Kelly and Frank Sinatra and Louis Armstrong... some of the great songs were: 
>True Love, You're Sensational, Did you eva'
>
>SOMEBODY must remember the name of this movie!

It's called "High Society," and you're right, it's a great movie!

-----
Mindy
wallis@aristotle.ils.nwu.edu
From: mikes@Ingres.COM (Mike Schilling)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
Subject: Re: UNLAWFUL ENTRY
Date: 31 Jul 92 04:56:29 GMT

From article <1992Jul24.230331.15233@cs.mcgill.ca>, by storm@cs.mcgill.ca (Horatio Gadsplatt III):
> In article <1992Jul24.143750.18904@linus.mitre.org> jartz@mitre.org writes:
>>In article <2A6DC389.8799@noiro.acs.uci.edu>, assist@orion.oac.uci.edu (ASSIST Coordination Site) writes:
>>I thought it was a highly predicatable, formula psychopath
>>movie.  I was disturbing and even frightening, but in a very
>>heavy handed way.  I thought that the characters were flat
>>and the scenarios were not at all beleivable.  I guess it would
>>be fair to say that I didn't like it.
> 
> 
> 	I spent a large part of the movie mapping out parallels to
> the Rebecca DeMornay Fiasco, The Hand that Rocks the Cradle....
> 
> -- 
>   storm@cs.mcgill.ca           McGill University         C program run.  Run  
>   Marc Wandschneider           Montreal, CANADA          Program run! PLEASE!
>       "When 900 years old you reach, look as good you will not." - Yoda
> 				"Ow!" -J.F.K.~

How many near-identical psychopath movies have there been lately?

	Cape Fear
	The Hand that Rocks the Cradle
	Pacific Heights
	Unlawful Entry

The Silence of the Lambs was a much better film, but of the same type.
In each case, the psychopath is not only deadly, but also superhumanly
clever at manipulating people and staying in control of the situation.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
mikes@ingres.com = Mike Schilling, INGRES, An ASK Company, Alameda, CA
Just machines that make big decisions,
Programmed by fellows with compassion and vision.	-- Donald Fagen, "IGY"
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
From: med50003@nusunix3.nus.sg (WANSAICHEONG KHIN-LIN)
Subject: Re: Is William Baldwin Alec Baldwin's brother?
Organization: National University of Singapore
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 11:53:34 GMT

Yes. So is Stephen Baldwin (He's in Young Riders.) There is a fourth
brother but I don't know what he does.

Gervais
Organization: Fifth yr. senior, Architecture, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 23:00:14 -0400 
From: Louis Anthony Faassen <lf0v+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: INFO on TWIN PEAKS


Sorry if this has been covered recently, but I haven't been following
this newsgroup for a couple of weeks(and you know how many posts can
occur in that time!) 

My simple question: when is the Twin Peaks movie "Fire Walk With Me"
scheduled to be realeased?  Anyone got a simple answer(even though I
really enjoy long, complicated, in-depth responses.  

Thanks in advance.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Subject: Re: terminator ii
Organization: AT&T
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 20:49:09 GMT

In article <BD.92Jul31123735@fluent.UUCP>, bd@fluent@dartmouth.EDU (Brice Dowaliby) writes:
> 
> in article <1992Jul30.231539.7783@cs.aukuni.ac.nz> mbuc1@cs.aukuni.ac.nz (Matthew Richard Buchanan) writes:
> 
> >In <1992Jul30.182537.41538@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> jm0i@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (JOSEPH ALOYSIUS MCVEIGH) writes:
> >
> >>The irony here is that Schwarzenegger was supposedly approached to play
> >>Reese in "The Terminator", but found the title role more intriguing.  Is this
> >>a rumor or - gaa-a-ag - "urban legend?"
> >
> >I've read about the making of T1 and it seems that Ah-nold originally got
> >the part of Reese. He was in fact talking to Jim Cameron about how he
> >thought his opponent should move, and Cameron was so impressed with Arnie's
> >understanding of robotic movement that he offered him the bad-guy role.
> >Or something like that...
> 
> The further this goes, the more it sounds like b.s. to me.  Doesn't
> qualify as urban legend, but does qualify as tall tale.

According to an article I read in Muscle and Fitness long before
T1 was released, Arnie suggested it when offered the role of Reese,
and Cameron agreed.  Whether it was hinted around by both or either of
them prior to this decision or not is probably lost in the fog of
mutual memory.  But it was indeed Arnie's savvy that switched this
final decision and made him the Terminator.

GMS
From: antoniou@buitc.bu.edu (George Antoniou)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
Subject: Re: TERMINATOR II
Date: 23 Jul 92 16:13:16 GMT
Organization: Boston University, Boston, MA, USA

In article <1992Jul22.170407.24310@walter.bellcore.com> tedk@jpl.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Ted Ko) writes:
>I think that's the first time I've heard anyone say they really disliked T2.
>Personally, I put it in my top ten of all time.  What about it was so bad
>that it deserves comparison with Highlander 2?

Not comparing to HL2... T2 was made for the audience...  unlike the original
which was serious in content.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies