HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kettering@addvax.llnl.gov (Brett 'Volleyball Is My Game' Kettering)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: God's Family Values
Date: 23 Jul 92 16:07:00 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.40

In Message-ID: <daved.711831468@convex.convex.com>

>>Now that we have seen what man has to say about children (re: Hillary
>>Clinton - Family Values), let's see some of what God has to say:

>>( lot's of biblical quotes,  etc)

>I am asking for the consideration of not being preached to about specific 
>religous beliefs which I do not share.

Noone asked you to read it.  There are a lot of beliefs that are preached
on this group with which I do not agree also.  Some people adhere to these
beliefs religiously.  Take the Anti-Life coalition, for example.

>Please keep your religion to yourself and those who invite you to share it
>with them.

If people kept to themselves and those that agreed with their opinions
then this and many other newsgroups would not exist.  Post whatever you want
folks.  You should express your opinions.  If those opinions reflect
traditional religious values that is OK.  Don't listen to people like Dave
who would infringe on your constitutional rights of free speech because he
is uncomfortable with the topic of religion.

>Respectfully Yours

>Dave

In Message-ID: <92204.162446IO81409@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>

>who bleeding cares?  i don't quote pagan authorities to the
>net on every parenting or political question under the sun.
>please confine your drivel to newsgroups devoted to same.

>                                   -ailsa

No you quote real thinkers, like popular music artists.  It's OK if you don't
believe in a Diety, but some of us do and do not consider that Diety to be
pagan.  It's always amazed me at how offended supposedly "tolerant" people
get when the subject of religion is raised.  Maybe these people aren't so
tolerant after all.

BTW Ailsa, the word man is often used in place of the word mankind in the
English language.  It does not have a gender reference in that context.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brett M. Kettering
PaperNet: LLNL P.O. Box 808 L-437 Livermore, CA.  94551
InterNet: brettk@llnl.gov
TalkNet : (510) 423-3467
FaxNet  : (510) 423-4606

"No other success can compensate for failure in the home."
              -- David O. Mckay
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: alanj@endeavor18.tek.com (Alan Jeddeloh)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Funny things we do: 1 week
Date: 22 Jul 92 16:47:50 GMT
Organization: Tektronix, Inc.

In article <19417@optima.cs.arizona.edu> bweiss@cs.arizona.edu (Beth Weiss) writes:
>Am I super pooper baby, or what?

Ah yes!  The ballistic poop stage!

--
    Alan Jeddeloh      W:(503) 685-2991  H:(503) 292-9740
    Tektronix, Inc.
    D/S 60-850; PO Box 1000; Wilsonville, OR 97070
    Alan.Jeddeloh@tek.com          Let sleeping dogs^H^H^H^Hbabies lie
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: mmeyer@m2.dseg.ti.com (Mark Meyer)
Subject: Re: to fans of "Schoolhouse Rock"
Organization: Texas Instruments Inc. - Plano TX
	<1992Jul17.153625.21010@u.washington.edu>
	<92203.012231IO81409@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 19:03:44 GMT

In article <92203.012231IO81409@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> IO81409@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (Ailsa N.T. Murphy) writes:
> Interjections
> Show excitement
> Or emotion

  They're generally set apart from a sentence
  By an exclamation point

> Or by a comma when the feeling's not as strong.

-- 
Mark Meyer                                               | mmeyer@dseg.ti.com |
Texas Instruments, Inc.                                  +--------------------+
Every day, Jerry Junkins is grateful that I don't speak for TI.
      In the land of three-legged men, the man with two legs doesn't date much.
From: kati@glnserv.UUCP (Lady Dragon)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: misc.teenagers?
Keywords: don't receive alt groups
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 92 06:31:49 CDT
Organization: Vermi-net, Houston, Tx. 77098

jws@hp835.mitek.com (Jeanetha Wemken) writes:

> >>    a.) where to post articles about teenagers (this group seems to be
> >>            about young children and i don't get any alt groups)

Try alt.parent-teens. If you don't have it, ask for it.

> We laugh that a two-year olds "job" is to be disagreeable and say "NO",
> maybe the teen's "job" is to be obnoxious.

"They" are starting (or maybe always have) that a 2YO is the first
adolescence and the teen years are the second.

> I think there is a reason there isn't much traffic about teens.  If
> you have one you know that you are absolutley NOT an expert.  Raising
> a teenager is a humbling experience.  I also take "advice" with a
> grain of salt.  I don't know why there is such a difference in my
> feelings of seeking/giving child rearing advice between my two-year
> old and my teenager.

Oh, but there is some traffic about teens. It's just elsewhere.

>
> With teens the best advice I have is to treat them as respectfully
> and fairly as you can as you administer the dicipline that they so
> desperatly need and ask for.  I have made so many mistakes with
> raising my child that I am suprized that he has ended up as "normal"
> as he has.  I love him endlessly and yet at times have wondered how
> he would ever live to be 20. ...well, he is eight months away from
> 20 and I am now greiving that he is growing up/away.
>
> With my two year old I am still trying to raise her without making
> any mistakes ;-) and she is stll young enough not to remind me that
> I have.
>



* * email address: nuchat!xcluud!glnserv!kati * Houston, Texas, USA, Earth * *




Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: khare@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca (Kathy Hare - DCS)
Subject: Thanks (pre conception advice )
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 14:22:11 GMT

I just wanted to thnk everyone who sent mail to me and who 
posted with advice for me.  I am going to see my OB/GYN
next week and will ask him about starting prenatel vitamins.
I am also going to pick the book "What to expect when you expecting"
Several people advised me to get this book and I do know the book 
is good I just didn't jknow it had a pre conception section.
Once agasin tahnks to all and wish us luck!
Kathy
From: tigger@satyr.Sylvan.COM (Grace Sylvan)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Car Seat Laws
Date: 22 Jul 92 06:17:50 GMT
Organization: Sylvan Associates

In article <tr.711598271@samadams> tr@samadams.princeton.edu (Tom Reingold) writes:

   Holy cow, we should be so lucky as to worry that the cops will stop us
   for not using the proper equipment for our children.  Almost half the
   cars with kids that I see have kids totally unbelted or standing in the
   car or sitting in laps.  I see many babies in laps.  This week, I saw a
   man belted in, holding his baby, not belted of course.  I guess the
   baby is not as valuable as he is.

I agree. I worry about those unbelted kids all the time. As for the
person wearing the belt, holding a baby, *if* it would be done, that
would be the proper way. Putting the baby in the belt with you would
be *more* dangerous (any bump would cause the larger person to crush
the baby). Unfortunately, it seems that one would be able to hold onto
a baby (at least in a minor accident), but I've heard that they did
some test runs with baby dummies, and that the baby dummies flew out
of the belted passenger's hands rather easily.
-- 

Tigger (Grace Sylvan)                Mom of Katherine Yelena, 8/8/89 &
tigger@satyr.sylvan.com              Robin Gregory born 2/28/92
=======================
I'm a mammal and proud of it!

4 month old Robin weighed 17.5 lbs, 25.5 inches tall, solely breastfed
by 'supermomcow' :-)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: God's Family Values
From: doug@doug.ksc.nasa.gov (doug hammond)
Date: 27 Jul 92 12:39:50 EST
Distribution: world
Organization: NASA - Kennedy Space Center
Keywords: Historical perspective - positive for both sides!

In article <14rg5bINN341@iraul1.ira.uka.de> stoesser@i31s21.ira.uka.de (Achim Stoesser) writes:

>I'm an anarchist, atheist, pacifist, and vegetarian.  This does _not_
>mean that I'd bomb kings, worship Satan, let soldiers bleed to death,
>or eat fish.

Do you want an award?

Who cares?


Doug
From: adf@cs.utexas.edu (Angela Dappert-Farquhar)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: how long to feel back normal after pregnancy?
Date: 30 Jul 1992 08:26:47 -0500
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: earth.cs.utexas.edu

In article <3782@wyse.wyse.com> donna@wyse.wyse.com (Donna Diloreto x2231 dept302) writes:
>> Carrie was born almost 5 weeks ago, via c-section following relatively
>> long labor.  I felt physically back to normal, including swinging my
>> 32 pound two year old over my head, by the time four weeks had passed.

>That's great!  But it's making me feel insecure.  I had a normal vaginal
>delivery, and after 3 months, still feel tired and not the least normal.
>
>... (parts erased)
>Donna

I had a vaginal delivery and had gained 50 pounds. I nursed for eight
months. I remember that at six months I still could not walk at a even
slightly accelerated pace without major pain in my lower body. I
thought that this was normal and did not see a doctor for this. It
finally went away.

In spite of nursing Sebastian I still have 10 pounds left at 18 months
now. I don't think highly of dieting. So I won't do that. I feel slim
but it seems that my body composition simply has changed. I have this
theory that women with relatively low weight at the beginning of their
pregnancy have a harder time getting back to prepregnancy weight. Can
anyone support or refute this?

Emotionally I was back to normal after Sebastian started sleeping
through the night at 12 months. The hormonal chnges after the birth
were certainly destabilizing but sleep deprivation was just the worst
thing. 

Is there anybody else out there who took a long time to feel "normal".

   Cheers,
Organization: Bar-Ilan University Computing Center, Israel
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 12:53:59 IST
From: Anthony Waller <P85014@BARILVM.BITNET>
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: God's view of children (and adults)
 <17001@ulysses.att.com> <1114@kepler1.rentec.com>
 <1992Jul27.160503.27610@ttinews.tti.com>

In article <1992Jul27.160503.27610@ttinews.tti.com>, reid@metis.tti.com (Reid
Kneeland) says:
>
>In article <1114@kepler1.rentec.com> fcaggian@rentec.com (Frank Caggiano)
>writes:
>>Ok, point out these 'numerous older religions that condoned or
>>even demanded infanticide'.
>
>Well for starters, there's a very old (ca. 3000 years) religion which
>holds that infanticide is called for in certain extreme circumstances.
>
>This religion is called Judaism.  Don't believe me?  Ask an orthodox
>rabbi about "kiddush hashem".  It dates back to the defeat of Israel by
>the Babylonians in the 6th century BC.  The gist of it is that it is
>better for children to die by the hands of their parents than to fall
>into the hands of pagans (sorry, ailsa) who might abuse them or
>sacrifice them to their gods.  Though this set of circumstances is
>unlikely to occur today, the law is still "on the books".
>Ok, point out these 'numerous older religions that condoned or
>even demanded infanticide'.


  I think your answer Reid, is misleading.  I am not an Orthodox
Rabbi, but I am an orthodox Jew.

  Firstly, please refer to Leviticus 18,21 and 20,1-5.  One of the
primary concerns of the Torah (5 books of Moses) is to guard against
idol-worship and practices associated thereof.  One of the most
horrendous practices was the offering of children to the moon-god,
Molech.  The Torah is uncompromising in its outlawing of this
atrocity.

  Secondly, you mention "kiddush hashem" which translates as
"sanctification of the Divine name."  Part of sanctifying, or
making Holy the name of G-d is the obligation to be killed rather
than perform certain forbidden actions, viz: murder, idolatory and
incestuous sexual relations, i.e. if someone says to you either kill
Joe or I will kill you, then you must forfeit your own life.

  I find that your use of part of this law (and I fear your post was
inaccurate  but I don't want to make this too long) to prove that
Judaism is one of the "numerous older religions that condoned or even
demanded infanticide"  highly offensive!

-------
Anthony Waller             BITNET:    P85014@BARILVM.BITNET
Bar-Ilan University        INTERNET:  P85014@vm.biu.ac.il
Israel.
From: chrisw@chopin.FtCollins.NCR.com (Chris Whitley)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Use of drugs during labor
Date: 27 Jul 92 20:32:29 GMT
Reply-To: chrisw@chopin.FtCollins.NCR.com (Chris Whitley)
Distribution: world
Organization: NCR Microelectronics, Ft. Collins, CO

[stuff deleted]
>That way they won't give you an epidural.  I can't imagine
> having a tube stuck in my back.  Ow!  Since my doctor (Ms.
> Demoral) didn't show up, I escaped that also.  I can't
> imagine an iv sticking in my arm either.

Hey, I don't care if you believe in drugs during labor or not.
But to suggest that the pain of inserting the epidural (which
in most cases ELIMINATES the pain of labor) is of any significance
AT ALL compared to the pain of labor is beyond my comprehension.
For those of you yet to deliver, do not let this issue (pain of
inserting/wearing epidural) deter you if you would otherwise 
opt for an epidural.

Chris
Newsgroups: misc.kids,sci.med
From: glenda@st.nepean.uws.edu.au (Glenda Robinson)
Subject: Re: Blood types - Mother&Father
Organization: University of Western Sydney
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 07:15:43 GMT

From what I can gather the ONLY problem is when
the mother is a -ve and the father a +ve.
IF the baby is a +ve, the mother often develops an antibody
rejection, which can kill a subsequent +ve baby.

BUT the wonderful thing is that it DOESN'T MATTER anymore.
They have developed an antibody anti-venine (as it were),
so that when you have your baby, they give you an injection within 72 hours,
and you're fine.

Isn't science wonderful????

Have fun with the bub,
       
Glenda.


--
Glenda Robinson                               University of Western Sydney
                                              Kingswood
glenda@uws.EDU.AU                             NSW Australia
From: sj@silma.com (Suzanne)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: breast milk storage bags
Date: 20 Jul 92 23:00:05 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Silma Inc

I e-mailed this info to someone who thought others
might like it, too.  So, here 'tis:

A company called Ameda Egnell makes bags specifically
for storing breast milk.  The bags are reusable, very durable
and are supposed to keep nutrients from leeching from the
milk and into the bags.  They come with twist ties and
an illustrated pamphlet showing how you use this plastic
clip they give you to squeeze the extra air out of the
bags.

The bags can be used as disposable bottles, just like Playtex.

I've been happy with them so far.  They are much better quality
than the Gerber and Playtex bags I used with my last baby.

I don't remember the cost.

The company's phone number is (800) 323-8750
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: slkg9733@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Steven L. Kellmeyer)
Subject: Re: Hillary Clinton - Family Values?
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 23:41:15 GMT

dan@cae.prds.cdx.mot.com (Dan Breslau) writes:

>slkg9733@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Steven L. Kellmeyer) writes:
>>People will use Hillary's law (if it makes it
>>that far) as a way to justify treating kids like hell.  If the kids
>>don't like it, let 'em get a divorce!  

>I assume that I can substitute "Parents" for "People" in your first
>sentence without changing your meaning (otherwise the sentence makes
>less sense.)  I'd say that parents who would use this law as an excuse
>for maltreatment are the same parents who would maltreat their children
>regardless of what the law says.  Oh, sure, they would indeed say
>something like this -- "If you don't like it, get a divorce!".  That's
>called rationalization, and they'd find a way to do it under any 
>circumstances.  Only now, the law would give the children a real 
>way out.

>Dan Breslau
>dan@codex.com
>Disc claimer:  "Hey!  That's my floppy!"

A real way out to where?  Or do the newly-emancipated 7,8,9,10,11, and
12-year olds get to manage for themselves?  Do we set up yet another
government agency to deal with the flood of divorcees?  Why is IT 
going to work better than CPS already doesn't?  I'm terribly sorry,
but all this proposal does is buy you and me peace of mind - it buys
the kids squat, and it doesn't do a thing to correct the parent's 
behaviour either.  But we get to go to bed and sleep well, "knowing"
some part of some system somewhere MUST be taking care of those
kids, because we passed a law that said everything would be wonderful
now.

Remember "think globally, act locally"?  Our parents did it better
than we do it now.  And they didn't even go to a love-in.  Go figure.
When one of us screwed up, no matter where we were in the neighborhood,
somebody's parent was there to yell at us.  When Mr. Jones started
beating up on wife and kids, a few of the other husbands took him out
for a few cold beers and a few short, hard words.  Mr. Jones learned
to settle down or move out.  

The studies have been done, ladies and gents.  When the cop is in a car
and the neighborhood doesn't know him from Adam, crime stays high.  Put
the man on a four-block beat, let him get to know the neighbors, let
the neighbors realize Officer Brown is always around, and crime drops
like a rock.  Social pressure is what works.  Government offices just
feed government worker's families - they do not solve moral problems,
because government is amoral.  Only people are moral.  Systems are not.
People in systems must act like systems, not people.  The key is not
more systems.  It's more people.

Steve Kellmeyer
From: sayre@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu (Frank Sayre)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Twelve yr. old caught stealing women's underwear!
Date: 30 Jul 92 15:07:24 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.1992Jul30.150724.12091
Organization: Vanderbilt University Computer Center
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1

In article <1992Jul29.130827.2605@fnbc.com> Chris Toczycki,
chris@fnbc.com writes:
>In article <skipa.712375594@milton> skipa@milton.u.washington.edu (Skip  
>Albertson) writes:
>> If your 12 yr. old boy was caught stealing women's underwear
>> at a department store, what would you do?
>
>A future politician in the making.

I thought serious questions merited serious answers, especially re kids,
Chris.

Anyway, Skip, my first step would be to see whether friend(s) put him up
to it.

If "no" then I'm not sure. I guess I'd try a session or two of serious,
non-
accusatory questioning. I might also (or instead) try to spend some extra
time 
out of the house with my 12 yr. old doing some things or going some
places *he*
likes, assuming he'd tolerate being with me. I'd do this with no strings
attached 
and no delving into the underwear question. I would do this as a way of
saying 
"I'm concerned and I care and I accept you." I wouldn't expect anything
in particular
to HAPPEN as a result. But don't stop trying to show your care. 

But if "yes" to "friends put him up to it" my level of concern goes down
dramatically,
since group behavior is often NOT a reliable indicator of personal
values. And 
people of all ages are subject to pressures to perform for the "group". 
For 
example, if this conference were not open ("group-oriented"), then Chris
probably 
wouldn't have bothered to show off w/ his a**inine "future politician"
comment.

Probably, however, the joke is on me. Chris is probably not male, as I
assumed, but
is probably a wise, caring female parent who thought that a good antidote
to the
problem was to gently laugh at it. Hmmmm......

Frank C. Sayre
Vanderbilt University Computer Center
sayre@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu

My views DO NOT represent those of Vanderbilt University.

"Plato told me that if I'd gone to the Sicilian palace as I was invited, 
I wouldn't have to wash lettuce for a living. I replied that if he washed
lettuce for a living, he would not have had to go to the Sicilian
palace."  
----Diogenes the Cynic
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: day_kevran@tandem.tandem.com (Kevran Day )
Subject: Cute things they say (26MO)
Followup-To: misc.kids
Organization: Tandem Computers, Inc.
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 20:36:13 GMT

Jason has really started to blossom in the speech department, but there are
some 
subtleties he's missing:

Jason came into our room the other morning very early and crawled in bed
with us.
I gave him a BIG hug and said "Are you my boy?".

Jason responded, "I'm not a boy, I'm 2!!!"

Kevran (mom to Jason - 2YO and ??? due in Oct.)
From: seb1@leia.dr.att.com (sharon badian)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Use of drugs during labor (% wise)
Date: 30 Jul 92 15:09:55 GMT
Reply-To: seb1@druhi.att.com
Organization: Bell Labs, Denver, CO.

In article <1992Jul29.220643.13723@umiami.ir.miami.edu>, ahelmers@umiami.ir.miami.edu writes:
|> This reminds me...my understanding is that since an epidural is administered
|> into a "closed" system (the spinal cord area) none of the medication actually
|> reaches the baby at all.  Correct?  If so, then none of the arguments against
|> medication that can make the baby dopey is relevant to epidurals.  
|> 
|> Maybe somebody who is up on their reading (or preparing for labor/delivery) can
|> elucidate.

In my childbirth class two weeks ago when we discussed drugs, there was no
mention of the drug reaching the fetus. The con's listed for epidurals were
centerd on the mom, not the baby. Even if they slip and you end up with a
spinal, it doesn't reach the baby.

-- 
Sharon Badian
AT&T Bell Labs - Denver
seb1@druhi.att.com
From: L638615@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM (STAFFORD, KD)
Subject: Re: 24 Re: ready to try for 2nd
Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space Company, Inc.
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 17:02:56 GMT

------------------------- Original Article -------------------------
In article <1713@optigfx.optigfx.com>, wang@optigfx.optigfx.com (Alice Wang)
says:
>
>Also what is the best way to predict ovulation date?  I've heard
>of charting temperature in the morning but I don't know the details.
>I bought a digital thermomether, is that accurate enough or do I have
>to get a basil(sp?) thermomether?
>
Alice asked for e-mail responses to her question, but I would like to
hear from other women about their success, or failure, using the cervicel
mucus method of detecting ovulation.  I learned about this from the net
a few years ago when I was trying to conceive, and found it much easier
than taking temperatures--particularly if you have an irregular cycle.
Does anyone know about the relative accuracy of the method?

Chris Himes
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

For the first poster:  A digital thermometer is fine for taking and charting
your temperature (as told to me by my ob/gyn).

For Chris Himes:  I agree with you.  I found it much easier and very
accurate to use the cervical mucus method to determine ovulation.  I found
out about it from a book I picked up called "Choosing the Sex of your Baby".
We really wanted to have a girl so we read the book and had been trying to
follow the listed methods.  Anyway, judging from the cervical mucus method
(and a particular pain I was feeling) I was able to tell pretty much exactly
when I was ovulating.  That was July 6th......low and behold I am now almost
6 weeks pregnant.  A funny thing my doctor told me is that no matter whether
you know the date you conceived or not, they still count your weeks pregnant
from the first day of your last period.
Newsgroups: misc.kids