From: jquarant@mipos3.intel.com (James R. Quaranta Jr.)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Aikido and Randori
Date: 21 Jul 92 19:36:55 GMT
Reply-To: jquarant@mipos3.UUCP (James R. Quaranta Jr.)
Organization: Microprocessor Component Group, Intel Corp., Santa Clara, CA

n article <1992Jul17.211848.26427@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> jjsmith@nyx.UUCP (Jonathan J. Smith) writes:
In article <HIRSCH.92Jul17115804@beirut.berkeley.edu> hirsch@beirut.berkeley.edu (Michael D. Hirsch) writes:
In article <geNi8Qu00iU45Vk2t=@andrew.cmu.edu> Stephen Chan <sc1u+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
  hirsch@neuron.berkeley.edu (Michael Hirsch ) writes:
 I would be very interested in the reactions of aikidoka who are
 primarily interested in self defense.


[lots deleted]
mail/poster program.


First off apoligies for posting onto the end of Micheal's, I didn't catch the
phrase for which I an responding to the in original post..

Okay... NOW for teh important (to me) stuff..
first off I do dancing.. a lot of it (ballet, modern mostly for though curious),
I also do MA, used to be lots, now not as much mostly limited because of my
location, I still however practice on my own.

Given that.. I JUST HAD to respond the the comment about not liking MA practice
that feels like tag or (more on my point) a dance.

To me the difference between dancing and fighting/sparing/Actuall using MA, is
There is none.
I know this sounds a bit strange.. but bear with me..
In dance you treat many many things as active or passive participants in the 'dance'
things that aren't usually noticed consciously y most people:
other dancers, and thier bodies (kinda obvious)
objects that are in that space with which you are performing..
the space in which you are performing..
in fact a great deal of time is spent IN giving that space weight, force even motion..
All thise affects your final Movement in the dance.. some in very obvious ways
other in smaller not so obvious ways...
now to MA's

WHen you are sparring/practicing with someone.. you are in the real sense of the
word 'dancing' with that person (at least to me).  Things he does, or does not do
limites or expands on your options on what you can and can't do, its a pattern thats
woven of your individual techniques, meshed together, and agumented by your own
sense of 'self' and 'style' within that MA, You always do have choices.. in what
you can or will do do certian things or as an impetous to things.. BUT those 
choices are dictated, by not only your partner(I say partner on purpose, though
it could be someone trying to harm you.), but the space that you find yourself in and many many other varables..
The most dominant of these forces in its actions on you is of course that of
your partner and his 'dance' or 'pattern', HOW you arrange the results will
dictate the outcome (and of course his responses to such (his or hers, i use
the male pronouns to mean both)).

I have often found myself caught up in teh patterns that me and a sparring partner
were developing at teh time, and completely forgetting that I'm supposed to be
'winning' or what not in the sparring.. NOw Im not sure if this is because
of my somewhat unique background of being heavily into dance while doing MA or not
(I haven't run into many others.. SPEAK up if your out there!! please!..)
or if its more somethign of just cause its me.
But even in tourneys, I have always felt myself to be dancing a dance..
certianly the format is a bit atypical from what most people think of as
'dance', but its the same concepts none the less..
In fact when this abstraction of seeing the patterns or the dance gets going I usually
end UP doing much better techniques, and sparring than I do when Im thinking its a fight or sparring or somethign along those lines..
And not only do I enjoy myself much more, but I get a LOT more out of what my
partner is doing than I ever did seeing it from the other ways..
Winning or losing become much less important in my mind at the time, than does dancing well.
and making the mutual dance more interesting/ or perfect, (this I think is the
reason that I improve so much on my technique, aside from the fact that im not worriing about losing..)

SIgh.. IS this just totaly weird? and Im comming from outerspace?
Or do some other people share some of this same viewpot/perspective on it??
Please respond to me (either email or net) as I am very interested in your thoughts on the matter.


more thoughts...
Also if there ARE any dancers out there who also do MA please holer at me!

Thanks for listening to my perhaps babbling.. :)
Jonathan Smith

________________________________________

I've done a lot of fencing over the years and the BEST matches were the
ones where it seemed like a "dance".  I like to use the term "harmony".
When I can find my opponent's harmony and match it, my awareness rises
dramatically.  Things become automatic, and I can think about strategy
verses techniques.  I find that, in this state, I no longer try to force
attacks.  I just fence.  Then, where there is an opening, my blade finds
its way, almost without effort on my part.  I suppose this is the "no
mind" which has been talked about on this net.

I have just started Shoa-lin, and I am striving to find this harmony
while sparring.  I have not found it yet, really.  I think that it takes
a few years so that individual techniques become ingrained in the motor
cortex... once they are, they become part of the "automatic" suite-- no
need to think about them too much while executing them.  At least,
that's how long it took me to learn to fence that way.

jq

jquarant@mipos3.intel.com