HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: barr@pop.psu.edu (David Barr)
Subject: Re: 16" colour or 19" grayscale?
Organization: Penn State Population Research Institute
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 01:11:08 GMT

In article <peter.722014802@merlin> peter@merlin.acadiau.ca (Peter Steele) writes:
>We are about to buy one of the new Sun LX workstations and I
>have to choose either 16" colour or 19" grayscale. I presently

grayscale.  DEFINATELY grayscale.  16" is just barely usable IMHO in
an environment like X/OpenWindows.

--Dave
-- 
System Administrator, Population Research Institute    barr@pop.psu.edu
Emacs is a fine operating system, but I still prefer UNIX. - Tom Christiansen
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware
From: cone@controls.ccd.harris.com (Tom Cone)
Subject: Re: Sparc 10's are 10BASE-T
Organization: Harris Controls and Composition
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 13:55:36 GMT

In article <1992Nov19.003959.6608@news2.cis.umn.edu> pete@lynx.spa.umn.edu (Pete Thurmes) writes:
>A word of caution when ordering a Sparcstation 10:
>
>Sun is now shipping the Sparc 10's, but when I received mine I found out
>that Sun has apparently departed from their old standard of putting
>thickwire Ethernet ports on all their workstations. The Sparc 10 comes
>with twisted pair, standard! To connect thickwire, you need (surprise!)
>a $60 adaptor cable that turns the audio (AUI) port into a dual port
>(audio and thickwire Enet). Pretty bogus, huh?
>
>So be sure to budget an additional $60 (and order it *with* your box,
>or you'll wait 5 days for Sun"Express") if you don't use 10BASE-T (i.e.
>if your Sun is not a PC server).
>
>Just another example of expensive corporate silliness.

If you are connecting more than one Sparc10 you might want to get a 
10baseT hub from MILAN. It has 8 TP ports and 1ea. AUI and Thin connections
on the back. I cost around $400 depending upon your discount. This
comes out to be $50 a port. Well worth it if you need more or for
future units.

Tom

Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware,comp.periphs.scsi
From: alexis@panix.com (Alexis Rosen)
Subject: Re: SUMMARY: 1 GB 3.5" SCSI disks
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 08:59:40 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC

edguer@ces.cwru.edu (Aydin Edguer) writes:
>DEC DSP3105, Fujitsu 2694S, HP C2247, IBM 0663 model E12, Maxtor MXT1240S,
>Micropolis 2112, and Seagate ST11200N.  The Fujitsu is just being released
>in the U.S.  The Maxtor is due out in quantity by the end of the year.

Probably. It's a second-generation drive, even if it's Maxtor's first effort.
It's considerably more advanced than any of the others and should hold the
lead in performance for many months. Heat was a MAJOR problem early on, but I
understand that's better now. (Also, unlike most of the other drives, this
is a 1" high drive!)

>DEC was said to be very fast but tended to be "noisy" and ran "hot", perhaps
>too hot to be used internally.  The warranty on DEC drives vary by distributor.

Actually, the Dec isn't priced bad but it's relatively slow- tend to max out
at a sustained 2.2MB raw.

>Seagate gives a 5 year warranty - little was said about the drive.  A Seagate
>spec sheet that listed the rotational speed as 4500 RPM was accidentally
>released.  The proper speed is 5400 RPM and current spec sheets have been
>updated to reflect this.

This is the fastest drive (excepting the Maxtor), capable of sustaining over
3.2MB/sec. In fact, I've got another one due tomorrow to supplement the
515MB Seagate already in the Sparc 2.

The great news about this unit is that volume is now way up and prices have
dropped dramatically. I paid less than $1700 for one of these this week. I
expect it to drop a bit more over the next few months, though not nearly as
much as it just did.

>Micropolis gives a 5 year warranty - it also tended to be the lowest priced.
>Beta versions of the drive were said to have compatibility problems but
>production versions are supposed to have no problems.

I've heard good things abou;t this but not used it. I'm surprised about the
price comment- I was told it was pricier than the seagate.

>IBM gives a 5 year warranty - was said to be a quiet reliable drive.

I've had some bad luck with their drives but not the newer GB units. Speed
seems OK.

>Maxtor is supposed to be fast and looks like the fastest in term of maximum
>sustained transfer rate [6300 RPM].  Not yet available so compatibility and
>pricing are not yet known.

It _is_ the fastest. Close to 4MB/sec sustained. And of course latency is
lower than on any other drive. This may retain the speed crown, once it's
available, until the new Seagates are released next year (early 2H, if we're
lucky), which will spin at 7200RPM. (!)

BTW, I didn't see mention of the Toshiba. It's cheap, but slow (maybe slower
than DEC's drive).

--
Alexis Rosen   Owner/Sysadmin,
PANIX Public Access Unix & Internet, NYC.
alexis@panix.com
{uupsi,cmcl2}!panix!alexis
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware
From: mfr@Informatik.Uni-Bremen.DE. (Michael Froehlich)
Subject: Re: SPARCClassic
Reply-To: mfr@Informatik.Uni-Bremen.DE.
Organization: University of Bremen, Germany
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 08:36:31 GMT

In article 16307@uhura1.uucp, bryan@uhura1.uucp (Bryan Curnutt) writes:
>In article <1992Nov11.115246.1116@informatik.uni-bremen.de> mfr@Informatik.Uni-Bremen.DE. writes:
>>
>>There is 19" grayscale (1152x900), 16" midrange color (1024x768/1152x900), 
>>16" color (1152x900/1280x1024) and 19" color (1152x900/1280x1024) also.
>
>These dual-resolutions puzzle me, as does the relation in quality
>between the "mid-range color monitor" and the current Sony-built
>16" color monitors that we have on our IPCs.
>
>What's the bottom line on this comparison?  If I want a monitor that
>will be just as good as our current 16" Sony tubes, will the mid-range
>monitor do the trick?
>
>If the LX does 1152x900 graphics, what's the difference between the
>mid-range and the more expensive 16" color monitor?  If the classic
>only does 1024x768 graphics, what's the point of having the more
>expensive monitor available?
>-- 
>Any opinions above are mine, and do not necessarily reflect the views of SAI.
>Bryan Curnutt, Sun Equipment Ignoramus-at-Large
>bryan%uhura1@uunet.uu.net

A lot of good questions. But I couldn't give you an answer. I've taken
the informations about the resolution from the hardware specification sheet 
of the SPARCclassic. I think the best way to find your monitor is to ask your 
SUN rep. for a demo. 

Michael
---
	Dipl.-Inform. Michael Froehlich
	University of Bremen - Department of Computer Science
	PO-Box 330440, W-2800 Bremen 33, Germany
	Tel.: 	x49 421 218-4228
	e-mail: mfr@Informatik.Uni-Bremen.DE
				
I'm a recycled .signature virus. The characters of my source code
are 100% extracted from old foolish articles.
From: lupe@ukw.uucp (Lupe Christoph)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware
Subject: Re: 2 Gb drives on suns
Date: 22 Nov 92 10:58:22 GMT
Organization: cic

dave@nakiska.ucs.ualberta.ca (David Ross) writes:

>In article <1992Nov19.160256.27205@ohgpu.hydro.on.ca>  
>Rob.E.Allan@hydro.on.ca (Rob E. Allan) writes:
>> We are considering the purchase of a 5.25" 2Gb SCSI Fujitsu drive.
>> Does anyone know of any problems in attaching a disk of this size
>> to a sun sparc (1-2) running SunOS 4.1.1? I seem to remember there were
>> problems attaching a >1GB drive to suns in the past.

>I too would like to know of any problems with this - running under SunOS  
>4.1 actually.  Sun Tech support gave me the impression that there may be a  
>patch available for SunOS 4.1(.1) that will allow 2GB disks to work.  Does  
>anybody know about this?  Thanks!  (BTW, this is for a lab which we can't  
>upgrade to 4.1.2 or Solaris until next Spring).

This is the description of the patch you need for 4.1.1. It does not
seem that you can make 4.1 use 1 GB disks.

And I can't resist to repeat:

	Solaris 1.x contains SunOS 4.1.y (BSD based)
	Solaris 2.x contains SunOS 5.x (SVR4 based)

Solaris 1.0 contains SunOS 4.1.1, 1.0.1 contains 4.1.2,
and 1.1 contains 4.1.3.
-- 
| ...!unido!ukw!lupe  (German EUNet, "bang")     |  Disclaimer:            |
| lupe@ukw.UUCP       (German EUNet, domain)     |  This is an unofficial  |
| suninfo!alanya!lupe (Sun Germany)              |  opinion of Christoph & |
| Res non sunt complicanda praeter necessitatem. |  Imschweiler Consulting |
From: jeff@cbis.ece.drexel.edu (Jeff White)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware
Subject: Standard simms for SparcStaion1+
Date: 20 Nov 92 18:46:07 GMT
Organization: Drexel University, College of Engineering, Philadelphia, PA


 Can anyone tell me if Sparc1+'s use regular x9 80ns simms, or whether
a Sun-specific simm has to be used instead?

					Jeff WHite
					jeff@cbis.ece.drexel.edu
From: philb@cats.ucsc.edu (Philip Brown)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware
Subject: Re: Repairing old Suns
Date: 23 Nov 92 20:42:29 GMT
Organization: University of California, Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: si.ucsc.edu


mikc@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Mike Coughlin) writes:


>    I would like to be able to recycle the old Sun 3 computers that turn
>up in electronic surplus stores but repair info from Sun is very hrd to
>find.


Wel, you can always order their softwre engineer handbook for $500 :-P

-- 
  --------------------------------------------------
"How do I love sea? Let me count the waves.." |philb@cats.ucsc.edu
P.Anthony, "The Colo(u)r of her panties"      |philb@soda.berkeley.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware,comp.periphs.scsi
From: jjg@pt.com (John Grana)
Subject: Re: Problems with Fast SCSI-II on Sun Sparc 10 (long)
Organization: Performance Technologies, Incorporated
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 01:26:13 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.100038.27178@panix.com> alexis@panix.com (Alexis Rosen) writes:
>I remember some discussion of FPT when IBM first introduced it. I seem to
>recall that there was mention of some potential problems with FPT too.

Yes, it presently is being worked on in the SCSI-3 parallel interface
working group. The main concern is that it demands more then 48 ma for
a brief period of time during the "forcing" (I heard around 52-55 ma).
Anyways, its the chip people who are voicing some concerns. The general
feeling is that it wont be an issue... most are behind it. Its too late
to be included in the SCSI-2 spec. Expect it in SCSI-3 though.

>
>However... Assuming FPT is the solution we seek, where do we go about
>terminating a Sparcstation 2? Obviously, the external end of the chain, but
>what about inside the box? I have yet to get a straight answer as to where
>(if anywhere) the internal part of the SCSI bus is terminated (I suspect that
>it isn't but have no real basis on which to judge).

Hmmm good question. I think the SS2 does have terminators, except they
are passive. Look on the PCB near the connector to the internal disks.
You would first have to disable them and then add a combination Active/FPT.

>
>Presumably this will mostly be an issue with fast SCSI-2 cards, in which case
>we'd terminate on the card first? Or would the card come preterminated on
>its end of the chain?

Yes and yes. FPT is compatible with slower SCSI, but benefits fast SCSI the
most. Ideally, the card would be terminated with it AND (critical) the
other end of the bus as well.

>
>How much would an FPT terminator cost?

From what I have found so far, around 40-50$ per end. In small qty.

>
>Oh, while we're at it... I've got a long chain of SCSI devices working on a
>Mac and I have no doubt it will fail miserably on the Sun when we try to move
>it. This is all SCSI-1 stuff. Does FPT apply to SCSI-1 (I thought it did)?
>does it also help cope with dicey cabling setups, as it does with SCSI-2?
>

Might. Never tested it on a long bus withh mostly async devices. The setup
I tested had 4 fast disks, a tape and a cd-rom with 4 cables and a total
length (including the internal ribbon on the shoeboxes) of around 10-12
feet. Work good.

-- 
___________________________________________________________________________
|John Grana, Performance Technologies Incorporated		jjg@pt.com|
|315 Science Parkway, Rochester, New York 14620           uupsi!ptsys1!jjg|
|Phone: (716) 256-0200   Fax: (716) 256-0791                              |
Xref: sparky comp.sys.sun.hardware:5660 comp.sys.sun.wanted:1802 comp.sys.sun.misc:5287
From: warner@natasha.sdsc.edu (Ken Warner)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware,comp.sys.sun.wanted,comp.sys.sun.misc
Subject: Digital to Analog Converter (DAC) Wanted
Followup-To: comp.sys.sun.hardware
Date: 16 Nov 1992 18:20:02 GMT
Organization: San Diego Supercomputer Center
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: natasha.sdsc.edu

I need a Digital to Analog Converter.  

Specs (approximate):

Standalone box with it's own power supply.  
Input:  RS-232 
Output: 6 channels (0-5 volts)
12 bits accuracy.
Should be compatible (have software drivers) with Sun and SGI.

Does anyone know where I can find such a beast?? I've called at
least 20 different electronics companies and everyone sez, "..oh
yeah, that's simple; we don't gottem."

Oh help me please!

Ken Warner
warner@sdsc.edu
(619) 793-8926


Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware
From: fwp@CC.MsState.Edu (Frank Peters)
Subject: Re: SOLARIS question
Keywords: Sparc LX
Organization: Computing Center, Mississippi State University
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 23:42:10 GMT

In article <1992Nov19.103001@karma.astro.Virginia.EDU> pcp2g@karma.astro.Virginia.EDU (Gilligan) says:
:
: So: can I install the old (OS 4.1) operating system on the new 
: Sparc LX?

No.

--
Frank Peters  -  UNIX Systems Programmer  -  Mississippi State University
Internet: fwp@CC.MsState.Edu  -  Phone: (601)325-7030  -  FAX: (601)325-8921
From: rhoward@matd.gatech.edu (Robert L. Howard)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware
Subject: Alternate Serial Ports
Summary: I want to run a high speed modem
Date: 19 Nov 92 02:38:39 GMT
Organization: Georgia Tech Research Institute

Given that:

1. I want to run a high speed (14.4 with data compression) modem
   on my SparcStation

2. The SS doesn't seem to support hardware handshake, etc.

Could somebody direct me to a likely place for an inexpensive
but good SBus card that has a single (or maybe two) serial 
ports that would meet high speed, etc. requirements?

Much appreciated,
Robert
--
| Robert L. Howard              |   Georgia Tech Research Institute     |
| robert.howard@matd.gatech.edu |   MATD Laboratory                     |
| (404) 528-7165                |   Atlanta, Georgia  30332             |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
| "See, when the GOVERNMENT spends money, it creates jobs; whereas when |
| the money is left in the hands of TAXPAYERS, God only knows what they |
| do with it.  Bake it into pies, probably.  Anything to avoid creating |
| jobs." -- Dave Barry                                                  |
From: arothman@eve.wright.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware
Subject: Sun 2/120 Analog Workbench
Date: 9 Nov 92 13:25:49 GMT
Organization: Wright State University

Does anyone out there have experience with the Sun 2/120 Analog
Workbench.  I need some technical info.  Whatever you know would be
helpful.

Aric Rothman
From: matt@centerline.com (Matt Landau)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware
Subject: Re: How does the new 2000+MIP Sun server compare against a Cray/XMP?
Date: 16 Nov 1992 23:44:56 GMT
Organization: CenterLine Software, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: 140.239.1.32

Okay, it's time to set the record straight.  

A while back I posted an article in this discussion expression dismay 
that Sun was preannouncing by almost a year the 20-CPU version of the 
SparcCenter-2000, and wondering aloud what the biggest *existing* 
version of the machine was that was actually running.  (Having once 
worked for a company that preannounced hardware that no one was sure
would *ever* work, I'm naturally chary of such business tactics.)

Well, I've now heard from several people inside Sun, and although the 
reports are slightly varied, the consensus seems to be that 20-CPU models 
are, in fact, running inside Sun, and that the delay in shipping is more
to assure reliability and tune the OS than to actually make the basic 
hardware work.

Having heard this from several people, I'm more than satisfied that 
it's true, and I rescind any aspersions I might have unintentionally 
cast on Sun.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware
From: roland@quadsys.com (Roland Besserer)
Subject: Re: 16" colour or 19" grayscale?
Organization: QUAD Systems
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 09:35:32 GMT

peter@merlin.acadiau.ca (Peter Steele) writes:
: We are about to buy one of the new Sun LX workstations and I
: have to choose either 16" colour or 19" grayscale. I presently
: work on an SLC, which is 17" monochrome. I like small fonts
: so I can get lots of xterms (most people can't read my screen
: if they're looking over my shoulder). I suspect I would not
: be able to use fonts this small on a colour monitor, although
: I've never used X for any length of time on a colour system.
: I'd like to hear people's opinions on what to pick--colour
: or grayscale?

I've used both a 1600x1280 monochrome 21" display and now a Sony 16" color
display extensively. I would say your choice depends really on your
application. If your basically coding software and running xterms I'd
stick with a highres monochrome screen, but only matters if you get a
highres graphics card. If you use the standard SUN resolution graphics,
I'd go with the color screen. The 3-D look of OW is very nice and I've
dicovered that the smaller screen requires less eye movements to focus
on different sections of the display and is less tiring. I also liek that
teh chars seems crisper.

-- 

Roland Besserer
QUAD Systems
roland@quadsys.com
From: dpkemp@afterlife.ncsc.mil (David P. Kemp)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware
Subject: Re: SPARCstation 10 Graphics Options
Date: 22 Nov 92 21:44:53 GMT
Organization: The Great Beyond

In article <1992Nov21.084457.2073@ukw.uucp> lupe@ukw.uucp (Lupe Christoph) writes:
>I'm no graphics buff, so I beg those who are for forgiving
>mistake I make.
>
>First, a short version:
>
>GX	is your standard 2D accelerator. 3D is done in software.
>GXPlus	is a double buffering version, to be used in animation.
>GS	is Sun's cheapest 3D accelerator. It fits into a pizza
>	box, but just barely.
>GT	is Sun's high-end 3D accelerator. It has a box of it's
>       own, coupled to the SBus.

  [long description deleted]

That was a good summary.  One correction, though: the GX and GXPlus
do hardware acceleration of 3D coordinate transformations, so they
are *quite* speedy doing 3D wireframes, point clouds, and flat shading.

They don't do hidden-surface removal or any advanced rendering operations
(Phong shading, lighting calculations, texture mapping, etc)
in hardware, so if you substitute "Photorealistic Rendering" for "3D" in
the short version above, it becomes correct.

-- 
   Dave Kemp   dpkemp@afterlife.ncsc.mil 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The use of history as therapy means the corruption of history as history."
    -- Arthur Schlesinger          (quote stolen from Chet Ramey, CWRU)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware
From: gm@itnux2.cineca.it (Gianmaria Bertanzon)
Subject: format.dat  Vendor MAXTOR P1-17S
Organization: Laboratorio di Fisica Computazionale, INFM. Trento Italia
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 15:17:43 GMT

Help !!
 
 I need the entry for the file format.dat or informations on how to get
 the parameters to format my SCSI HD:
 
 Vendor 'MAXTOR', product 'P1-17S'
 
 Thanks,  gm

-------------------------------------------------------------------
  Gianmaria Bertanzon           | E-mail:
  Universita` di Trento.        |    gm@itnsun4.cineca.it
  Facolta` di Ingegneria.       |    gm@itnux2.cineca.it 
  Dipartimento di Informatica   |  Decnet:   37962::gm 
                                | 
  38050 Mesiano 77 (Trento)     | Tel.   0461-882592 or 882584             
  Italy                         | Fax    0461-881971      
-------------------------------------------------------------------

--


-------------------------------------------------------------------
  Gianmaria Bertanzon           | E-mail:
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware
From: karl@thuja.gsfc.nasa.gov (Karl A. Anderson)
Subject: HP (Toshiba) CD reader on SPARCstation?
Organization: NASA/GSFC Laboratory for Terrestrial Physics
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 16:55:35 GMT

My SS2 running 4.1.2 can see the HP drive (it came with a 720) on the bus as
sr0 at boot:

"sr0: Unrecongized [sic] Vendor 'TOSHIBA ', product 'CD-ROM XM-3301TA'sr0 at esp0
target 6 lun 0"

but when I try to mount a CD (Sun 4.2 fstype), I get:

esp0:   data transfer overrun
        State=DATA Last State=RESEL
        Latched stat=0x11<XZERO,IO> intr=0x10<BUS> fifo 0x80
        last msg out: <unknown msg 0xff>; last msg in: IDENTIFY
        DMA csr=0x94400010<INTEN>
        addr=fff14000 last=fff13800 last_count=800
        Cmd dump for Target 6 Lun 0:
        cdb=[ 0x8 0x0 0x0 0x10 0x10 0x0 ]
        pkt_state 0xf<XFER,CMD,SEL,ARB> pkt_flags 0x0 pkt_statistics 0x1
        cmd_flags=0x21 cmd_timeout 178
        Mapped Dma Space:
                Base = 0x12000 Count = 0x2000
        Transfer History:
                Base = 0x12000 Count = 0x2000
        current phase 0x1b=RESEL        stat=0x17       0x6     0x0
        current phase 0x5=MSG_IN        stat=0x17       0x4
        current phase 0x28=DISCONNECT   stat=0x17       0x800
        current phase 0x2c=SAVEDP       stat=0x17       0x800
        current phase 0x26=DATAIN       stat=0x1        0x800
        current phase 0x1b=RESEL        stat=0x7        0x6     0x0
        current phase 0x5=MSG_IN        stat=0x7        0x4
        current phase 0x28=DISCONNECT   stat=0x7        0x1000
        current phase 0x2c=SAVEDP       stat=0x7        0x1000
        current phase 0x26=DATAIN       stat=0x1        0x1000
        current phase 0x1b=RESEL        stat=0x7        0x6     0x0
        current phase 0x5=MSG_IN        stat=0x7        0x4
        current phase 0x28=DISCONNECT   stat=0x7        0x1800
        current phase 0x2c=SAVEDP       stat=0x7        0x1800
        current phase 0x26=DATAIN       stat=0x1        0x1800
        current phase 0x1b=RESEL        stat=0x7        0x6     0x0
sr0:    SCSI transport failed: reason 'data_ovr': retrying command
[did L1-a here].

Should I be able to use this drive on the SS2?  Do I need to set some jumpers or
something?  TIA.

-- 
Karl A. Anderson		| Internet: karl@thuja.gsfc.nasa.gov
NASA/GSFC code 920.2 (HSTX)	| voice: (301) 286-3815
Greenbelt, MD 20771		| #include "std_disclaimer"
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware
From: adh@cbnews.cb.att.com (andrew.d.hay)
Subject: Re: Sun Monitor options
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 14:14:30 GMT

In article <41183@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> ma90fau@imath1.ucsd.edu (ma90fau) writes:
"I am somehow confused by Suns midrange color option.  If you own a
"Sparcstation LX, what difference does it make between the midrange
"and regular?  The midrange monitor can display 1152x900 right?
"I have never actually see a midrange 16 color monitor before, who
"makes those monitors?  Is it a flat screen monitor?

15" = 1024x768, 16" = 1152x900; same cg chip.
i think sony makes the monitor [it's very good -- i've seen it].
the only _really_ flat screen monitor i've ever seen is the zenith
zcm-1490/1492; on all the others, 'flat screen' really means 'less
curved than everyone else's'.

-- 
		+--------------------------------------------------------------+
Andrew Hay	|	I am not an expert,				       |
a_d_hay@att.com	|			 but I play one on the Internet!       |
		+--------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware