From: nordenga@tc.fluke.COM (Arnold E. Nordeng)
Subject: Re: Proof: God wrote the Bible
Organization: John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, WA
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 18:31:34 GMT

In article <1992Oct8.192429.8343@unislc.uucp> erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp) writes:
>Arnold E. Nordeng (nordenga@tc.fluke.COM) wrote:
>
>: Are you implying Jesus was lying or misquoted?
>
>Lying, no.  Misquoted, yup.

Prove it.  Let's see some evidence.  You can say and dream all you want, but
you got to produce the manuscripts.   I've challenged you for evidence Ed.
I am very willing to look at it.  But you have nothing coming.  Don't you
care, Ed?
>
>: Finally, Peter says that NO PROPHESY of SCRIPTURE came about by the
>: prophet's own interpretation.  For prophecy never had its origin in 
>: the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by
>: the Holy Spirit.  Maybe it is the will of man, eh?
>: Maybe Jesus was not so sure as the disciples being lead in truth, and
>: maybe Peter was in error here, too?
>
>Peter was, without doubt, a man.  Therefore, he (and Paul with him, and
>Timothy, and Luke, and Matthew, et. al.) is subject to making mistakes.
>

And that has never been the understanding by any church father as far back
as Ireneaus (who was discipled by Polycarp who was discipled by John himself).
Only neo-Christianity (which I'll quote you here, is UNDOUBTEDLY HUMAN THEREFORE
NEO-CHRISTIANS ARE SUBJECT TO MAKING MISTAKES) think this.  
In fact, Luke was thought to contain historical errors.  Yet discoveries 
continue to confirm its veracity.

>: The letter killeth is man's relationship to the Law, 
>: "the letter written on tablets of stone".    Your belief about the 
>
>The ten commandments killed?  Hmmm....

I never said that, read again.

>
>: bible shoots yourself in the foot; it says the bible is not trustworthy, 
>: but trust it anyway and put faith in God.  Mormons claim the bible is 
>: trustworthy up to a point that it doesn't contradict their book of Mormon, 
>: Doctrine and Covenants, etc.
>: Joseph Smith was told by a spirit, that all the Christian churches 
>: doctrines are an abomination to God.
>
>Joseph Smith did what the bible told him to do in Matthew.  He prayed about it,
>and he got an answer.  Are you saying that by following the bible's instructions
>that Smith was misled?

He didn't follow *all* of the bible instructions, Ed.  Remember, If an angel
of light should preach a gospel other than the one we preached it is not
a gospel at all....let him be anathema.   Obviously, Joseph Smith forgot
about that one.

>Also, Smith was *not* told that "all the Christian churches doctrines are an
>abomination".  He was told to join none of the churches OF THAT TIME, and that
>God was going to bring up a new church.

Wrong again.  Pearl of Great Price (2:18ff) reads:
I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and 
the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination 
in his sight; ......

But you are right that he did join one of the churches temporarily, even
though it was an abomination.

>-- 
>Ed Carp, N7EKG                  erc@apple.com                     801/538-0177
>"This is the final task I will ever give you, and it  goes  on  forever.   Act
>happy, feel happy, be happy, without a reason in the world. Then you can love,
>and do what you will."           -- Dan Millman, "Way Of The Peaceful Warrior"

-Arnold Nordeng
Xref: sparky talk.religion.newage:4588 alt.alien.visitors:7244 sci.skeptic:17627