From: randy@ninja.megatek.uucp (Randy Davis)
Subject: Re: riding clothes choices
Reply-To: megatek!randy@uunet.uu.net
Organization: Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 19:35:44 GMT

In article <8.2AA4F93F@kennel.FIDONET.ORG> john@kennel.FIDONET.ORG (John Hamilton) writes:
|"your denim jeans...shirt...without...leather jacket." You aren't talking to
|me. I wear leather or aerostitch. I don't go to the Safeway 1/4 mile away
|without chaps and a leather jacket. Whats your point, Randy?

  Actually, I was more addressing all those that think they are oh, so,
superior by denigrating the neon and shorts crowd, when they are most
likely not doing any better.  In fact, if you (meaning anyone reading this,
not aimed at you, John) wear blue jeans while riding, the neon shorts
crowd might be safer than *you*, since they are more visible in some
instances, and the two attires aren't that much different when hitting
pavement.  I thought I *might* catch you in that supposition, also, which
is why I worded it the way I did :-).  For that matter, the aerostitch
isn't any better than denim in abrasion resistance, as far as I know
(please correct me if I err).

|Excuse me, but if I have light leather on my arms and go down, I make out
|many times better than the guy wearing the t-shirt. Same for the legs.

  I agree.  That is, as long as the light leather doesn't rip, which most
light leathers will do (depends on your definition of "light" leather).

|You should have the right to evaluate personal risk and act accordingly. I
|agree. The laws are wrong.

  Ahh.. Good...  We agree.

|I disagree. What would you think of a fullback without pads, or a goalie
|without a facemask, or a funny car driver without nomex?

  Risky? :-)  Not *every* time does each of these people need the equipment,
although I would guess that they ALL (well, except the car driver, perhaps)
are more likely to need their safety equipment than a motorcyclist needs his
leathers and/or helmet.

  There is NOT a black and white line at which safety equipment is necessary
- it very much depends on the situation.  I could argue that, since I've
never had a recent motorcycle accident without a helmet and leathers, that
I have been lucky and/or have evaluated the risk factors well (I think its
a combination of both).  However, before you jump all over that, realize
for instance, that many car passenger injuries are head injuries - which could
VERY easily imply that we should all be required to wear a helmet while
driving or riding in a cage.

  Just because someone doesn't have the same viewpoint as you concerning
safety equipment does not make them wrong and you right - I could just as
easily call everyone that drives a car without a helmet and nomex as being
a total moron (to exaggerate a point).  You can only POSSIBLY say that they
are being more risky, but I don't agree with the mainstream even on some
helmet situations.

  Sure, there is a commonly accepted (to most of us, at least) standard -
which usually includes at least boots and long pants (same as the MSF
standards) and usually a helmet.  I abide by this, although I use to
occasionally forego the helmet when it was legal.  But, I was trying to
point out that the protection level offered by, thin cotton, denim,
aerostich(?), etc.. is not that much above bare skin when they hit the
road.

[back to the other examples]
| Would you think them very smart?

  Perhaps I wouldn't, yet I also realize it is not (and should not be) up to
me to have any control on their personal choices.  They *might* be perfectly
fine, and *do* realize all the risks and have a good reason.  They also could
be a complete moron.  The point is that it shouldn't be any of my business.
Yes, I also cringe a bit when I see someone riding like a TOTAL idiot and
also not wearing ANY protective clothing.

| Would you want to emulate them?

  Depends on the situation, and my interpretation of the risks as they apply
to *me*, personally.

| Would you rate them likely to
|survive long? Be honest. Dangerous work requires appropriate dress and
|equipment. Not wearing same has nothing to do with being good, or skilled.

  I disagree.  As I've had rather heated discussions in the past with
others, I don't feel that a helmet is necessarily the best choice of attire
in *all* situations (yes, it is a great idea for most).  I have no reason
to NOT wear long pants, etc, so I always do.  When the protective attire
can be a factor in adding to the possibility of an accident or other personal
detraction to the experience, the attire gets a second-thought.  To make a
ridiculous analogy; If the nomex suit didn't allow the race-car drive to
make left turns, it might get reconsidered before being worn under every
circumstance, don't you think?

|Its simply an indication of a lack of intelligence and a lack of any grasp
|of the nature of the activity being undertaken.

  I disagree - and this blanket statement indicates to me an egotism that
gets us helmet laws and other legislation intruding in areas that they do
not belong.  You are stating that, because *you* can't see a reason for
someone *else* to do something you don't agree with, then they are have a
"lack of intelligence and a lack of any grasp of the nature of the activity
being undertaken".  If it doesn't affect you, why care?  Most especially,
why require that they live their life according to *your* rules?

|And still, anyone should be able to ride in shorts, without a helmet, if
|they want to. Though why there should be less regulation of that than of
|football, or hockey, or drag racing, or skydiving, I cannot fathom.

  Is there?  I can go play football without any pads on, can't you?  I can
play hockey (I used to be pretty good in grade school) without anything on
other than skates (usually gets a mite nippy without a coat, though).  I
think someone that jumps out of a plane without a parachute might be missing
some intelligence, I agree - but I don't recall there being a law about it.

|I'm on your side, Randy, I just don't agree with you completely.

  I understand.  I just think the attitude your words indicate of requiring
others to conform to your beliefs to be a bit offensive.

Randy Davis                             UUCP: randy@megatek.com
("A notch above STUPID fast") ZX-11 Pilot     megatek!randy@uunet.uu.net
DoD #0013                                     ucsd!megatek!randy

Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles