HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: drieux@wetware.com (drieux, just drieux)
Subject: Radical Reading Notions....
Organization: Castle WetWare Philosopher and Sniper
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 17:53:55 GMT

beaver@castor.cs.psu.edu (Don Beaver) writes:
] In article <1a80teINN4r5@fido.asd.sgi.com> cj@sgi.com (C J Silverio) writes:
] >beaver@castor.cs.psu.edu (Don Beaver) writes:
] >|In article <1992Sep27.142543.22029@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> kcochran@nyx.cs.du.edu (Keith "Justified And Ancient" Cochran) writes:
] >|>Gee, and why would the women "refuse to speak honestly and openly"?  Maybe
] >|>becuase they've already heard about how if they "show disrespect", they'll
] >|>be killed?
] >
] >|Again, the only proposal to kill a woman simply because she 
] >|"shows disrespect" has come from you.  Is that why you are so 
] >|afraid of informing men about things that might upset them?
] >
] >You are incorrect.  Will Steeves posted here that he would
] >probably kill a woman for being disrespectful:
] >
] >Message-ID: <1992Sep3.025255.4014@zooid.guild.org>
] >[]And with God or Allah (whomever) as my witness, I will say
] >[]that in my own situation, if the woman had *not* been so
] >[]respecting as to tell me before, but in fact had not only told

not the construct ' not been so respecting' - it is a 
little more 'intellectually complex' in its formalization,
but clearly would be mappable to 'disrespect' - unless the
NeoLogismMachine is Loose...

] >[]me right afterwards, but had waited a year (!) or more, I
] >[]probably would have snapped right there and killed her where she
] >[]stood.
] 
] You are incorrect.  The posting does not refer to killing a woman
] because she was disrespectful, although you would like to believe so.
] Read it.  Read it again.  

For those NEW to english, to NOT RESPECT is generally
what is denoted by 'disrespect' it is a construct of
the inglich language that we negate a notion with 'dis'
and hence the slang phraseology 'to dis someone'.

But I guess that when its important enought to legislate
against the rights of the Born in favor of some of the UnBorn,
{as they are still DeHumanizing Sperms and Eggs - since they
seem not to have 'enough' potential....} it does not surprise
me that a little 'disrespect' can be overlooked when it comes
to killing women who fail to show the proper respect.....


ciao
drieux


-- 
Modern Day Problems

Does that 'answer' your question,
or should I be a little more vague.
From: hatcher@MSUPA.PA.MSU.EDU
Newsgroups: alt.abortion.inequity
Subject: Re: silent whispers
Date: 1 Oct 92 22:01:47 GMT
Reply-To: hatcher@MSUPA.PA.MSU.EDU
Organization: MSU Dept. of Physics & Astronomy

In article <1992Oct1.011422.29982@plx.com>, asgard@plx.com (J.R. Stoner) writes:
>In article <1992Sep29.205839.1@cc.helsinki.fi> juski@cc.helsinki.fi writes:

[J.R. give sad story of how he was mistreated by g/f who lies about
miscarriage (actually had abortion) and later uses it vindictively]

>Speak for yourself.  I wish it had even the chance of being discussed, instead
>of being presented as a fait accompli.

Unfortunate.  But I guess I'm unclear on what you are proposing to
do about such circumstances... Yes, people lie to others and taunt
them vindictively (I was on the receiving end in the school yard
so I understand the hurt).  But I hope you're not suggesting that
since one woman treated you poorly that it directly follows that
abortion should be banned.  Or are you for spousal notification?
(You wouldn't have qualified anyway...you weren't married).  Besides
how do you know that she didn't in fact have a miscarriage, and
MADE UP the story about the abortion just to be mean.  I'm not
dismissing you, just asking...

>_  And men !  Listen to yourselves ! How many of you  are going to get pregnant
>_anyway ? It is rather easy for the man to just clear off in a cloud of dust if
>_he wants... not so easy for the woman. So do not go preaching about
>_responsibilities before you've grown yourselves some sense of it !
>
>Speak for yourself.

Are you claiming that you are the exception to the rule that men can't
get pregnant?  I'm being flip here and I understand you're bitter, but
I think the original poster is correct:  Men can NOT fully understand
what it TRUELY means to be pregnant.

>At any rate:  I am even more againse abortion than I was before.  I think it
>is ugly, especially as it touches men more than superficially.  I think it is
>now only an ugly power game that females can play against delicate feelings
>of fathers-to-be.

Now I find this a real hoot!  I'm sure you didn't mean to be funny, but
to dismiss abortion as merely an "ugly power game" played by females
just shows that you are too bitter over this one experience to think
clearly.  Do you truely believe that women have abortions JUST to
hurt the "delicate feelings of fathers-to-be"?  Might they have other
reasons.  Do you think your g/f did it just so that later she could
drive the ice-pick into your gut?  Does she diagram out such devious
plots ahead of time?

>Anyhow, I have to deal with it but it takes time...

It does.  And hopefully you'll come to see that not all women are like
this.  Furthermore there are *good* legitimate reasons for a woman
to have an abortion.  And reasons not to inform the sperm provider.
I agree strongly that it was bad judgement on her part to lie and
later use the truth to hurt.  Unfortunately it is inordinately
difficult to legislate kindness.

>-- 
>J.R. Stoner, DWMIT - asgard@plx.com - sun.com!plx!plxsun!asgard

-robert (hatcher@msupa.pa.msu.edu)
From: gordon@lugh.think.com (gordon linoff)
Newsgroups: alt.hurricane.andrew
Subject: After Effects of Andrew
Date: 1 Oct 92 12:11:54
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA
Distribution: alt
NNTP-Posting-Host: lugh.think.com


I'm surprised that people have virtually ceased posting to
this newsgroup.  Although national attention has focussed
away from South Florida, the effects of Hurricane Andrew are
still very evident down there.

My mother, for instance, has spent the past few days at
South Miami Hospital because of a case of gastroenteritis.
She still doesn't have telephone service -- and this is on
the northern edge of the devasted area.

My sister told me that nightly newscasts are covering a
range of hurricane after effects, notably increases in
domestic violence and child abuse.  The recent triple murder
at FIU purportedly by a National Guard adds to the shock of
violence.

I'm curious what experiences people are having in the
aftermath of Andrew.  Are many people leaving the state, or
are most people sticking around, rebuilding their homes and
businesses?  What happened to the migrant workers outside of
Florida City?  What is being done about domestic violence?
Have there been any cases of unusual diseases?

--gordon
From: aberson@enh.nist.gov
Newsgroups: alt.hurricane.andrew
Subject: RE: Help needed for paper on andrew
Date: 6 Oct 92 21:09:38 GMT
Organization: NIST

In a previous article, jacobw@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Jacob Solomon Weinstein) wrote:
>For one of my classes, I'm writing a fifteen-to-twenty page paper on
>Hurricane Andrew. I'd like to focus on the damage it did to various
>Florida ecosystems, but I'm also interested in eye-witness accounts of
>the hurricane itself, and any interesting anecdotes about the hurricane.

The best source you will find would be The Miami Herald, daily since the
day of the storm.  That will give you a lot of good information, some
in-depth, and will also give you a starting point in your research.

       Sim Aberson   Ft. Lauderdale, FL   aberson%3328.span@sdsc.edu
"It's always Beach Party Barbie, or Malibu Barbie....  That shit does not
prepare you for the true horror of a real woman's life.  Where is Single,
Abused, Trailer-Park Barbie?"             - Roseanne Arnold
From: jacobw@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Jacob Solomon Weinstein)
Newsgroups: alt.hurricane.andrew
Subject: Help needed for paper on andrew
Date: 6 Oct 92 00:56:31 GMT
Organization: Princeton University
Originator: news@nimaster

For one of my classes, I'm writing a fifteen-to-twenty page paper on
Hurricane Andrew. I'd like to focus on the damage it did to various
Florida ecosystems, but I'm also interested in eye-witness accounts of
the hurricane itself, and any interesting anecdotes about the hurricane.
Unfortunately, we only just started receiving this newsgroup. If anybody
out there has information that you think might be useful to me, I'd be
grateful if you'd e-mail me. If you're not sure if what you know about
Andrew would fit into the scope of my paper, e-mail me anyway; at worst,
you'll have wasted a few electrons. At best, you could help me out
tremendously.
	The paper, by the way, will be a semester-long project. If
anybody's interested in getting a copy of it in January, when it should
be finished, e-mail me, and I'll e-mail you back in a few months. (I'll
probably have to ask you to send a SASE--I'm only a poor college
student, after all.)

	Thanks!
Newsgroups: alt.planning.urban
From: Nigel.Allen@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Nigel Allen)
Subject: Re: Bashing Transportation Planners :)
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 22:44:08 GMT

In article <6D1wRB1w165w@netlink.cts.com> rcf@netlink.cts.com (Bob Forsythe) writes:
>
>     Except that people have latched onto the Calthorpe notion of 
>transportation oriented development, and the transit board takes an 
>active role is large new developments.  The latest (and best) example 
>here is the Otay area in the southern end of San Diego County.  25,000 
>acres owned by the Baldwin Corp.  The local transit board has been 
>involved since day 1.

To some extent, this is a revival of the way investor-owned railway
and transit companies invested (or speculated, or received as a grant)
in land along the route their rail or transit lines would serve.
(Strictly speaking, the land holdings were normally set up under a
separate company, so that the company's owners, rather than the operating
company, would benefit from the increase in the value of the land.)

This is an argument in favour of building transit lines before the
demand requires it; you can recapture some of the construction costs
through profits from land sales (or a city-owned transit operation can
recapture some of the costs through higher property taxes when it 
reassesses the land near the transit line).

Nigel Allen      nigel.allen@bbs.oit.unc.edu



--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: alt.planning.urban
Subject: Re: Bashing Transportation Planners :)
From: rcf@netlink.cts.com (Bob Forsythe)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 05:54:52 PDT
Organization: NetLink Online Communications, San Diego CA

fuzzface@cats.ucsc.edu (Aaron Priven) writes:

> 
> 
> Transit is much less capable of supporting suburban sprawl than
> automobile transit.  Few people are willing to walk two miles down to
> the transit stop every day.  Many people are willing to drive two
> miles down to the freeway every day.  
> 

     I can't speak for San Francisco, but here in San Diego, they build 
park and ride parking lots at various trolley stops, so walking to them 
is negligible.

> >And does it help to create affordable housing? 
> 
> It strongly encourages apartment and condominium living rather than
> single-family detached homes (because then there are more dwellings
> within walking distance of transit).  It makes it harder to buy a piece
> of land in the middle of nowhere and build a subdivision, because while
> a developer can build a road or two it usually takes direct involvement
> by the transit authority to build or run a new transit line.  To that
> extent, it harms the cause of affordable housing.  On the other hand,
> it reduces transportation cost, so that one can afford the higher cost
> of housing with the car payment you're not paying.  The poor have it
> hard either way.
> 

     Except that people have latched onto the Calthorpe notion of 
transportation oriented development, and the transit board takes an 
active role is large new developments.  The latest (and best) example 
here is the Otay area in the southern end of San Diego County.  25,000 
acres owned by the Baldwin Corp.  The local transit board has been 
involved since day 1.

> > People around here seem
> >to think that BART is responsible for the unbridled growth in the East Bay
> >of the San Francisco region.  Any thoughts?
> 
> If BART were responsible for the unbridled growth in the East Bay,
> then places without BART would not be growing.  Instead, places like
> Danville, Dublin, and Livermore are growing quickly.  Growth is
> happing around the large freeways, not the transit lines.  To some
> extent, BART has failed to adequately attract enough growth to its
> stations.
> 


     Perhaps, but when you have a situation like the Otay, I suspect that 
running a line to a large development is going to cause some growth 
induction in the areas in between.  Still, the growth would eventually 
occur anyway, and it's undoubtably wiser to take that into account and 
require RT development at the same time.

-Bob

--                    
INTERNET:  rcf@netlink.cts.com (Bob Forsythe)
UUCP:   ...!ryptyde!netlink!rcf
NetLink Online Communications * Public Access in San Diego, CA (619) 453-1115
From: randolph@cognito.ebay.Sun.COM (Randolph Fritz)
Newsgroups: alt.planning.urban
Subject: Re: Bashing Transportation Planners :)
Date: 29 Sep 92 20:38:12 GMT
	<1a25hgINNol5@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>
Organization: St. Dismas Infirmary for the Incurably Informed
NNTP-Posting-Host: cognito.ebay.sun.com
In-reply-to: fuzzface@cats.ucsc.edu's message of 26 Sep 92 17:10:08 GMT

I think growth is more an outcome of economics, politics, and culture
than particular transit designs; transit designs instead influence the
form of growth.  In terms of sustainability and long-term habitability
I think modernized public transit probably makes more sense than
expanded automobile transit--if nothing else, it might cut down the
sheer amount of ashphalt in our cities.

__Randolph Fritz  sun!cognito.ebay!randolph || randolph@ebay.sun.com
From: Wendi Kallins <wkallins@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: alt.planning.urban
Date: 25 Sep 92 23:19 PDT
Subject: Re: Bashing Transportation Planners :)
Nf-ID: #R:1992Sep12.201022.4431@nmsu.edu:-883348451:cdp:1665900006:000:421
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!wkallins    Sep 25 23:19:00 1992


So much for highway congestion but what about public transit?  Does
adequate public transit promote growth?  Does it promote suburban sprawl?
And does it help to create affordable housing?  People around here seem
to think that BART is responsible for the unbridled growth in the East Bay
of the San Francisco region.  Any thoughts?

Wendi Kallins
Lost in the high prices and no public transit of Marin County California
From: fuzzface@cats.ucsc.edu (Aaron Priven)
Newsgroups: alt.planning.urban
Subject: Re: Bashing Transportation Planners :)
Date: 26 Sep 1992 17:10:08 GMT
Organization: University of California, Santa Cruz (College Eight)
NNTP-Posting-Host: am.ucsc.edu


In article <1665900006@igc.apc.org> Wendi Kallins <wkallins@igc.apc.org> writes:
>So much for highway congestion but what about public transit?  Does
>adequate public transit promote growth?  Does it promote suburban sprawl?

Transit is much less capable of supporting suburban sprawl than
automobile transit.  Few people are willing to walk two miles down to
the transit stop every day.  Many people are willing to drive two
miles down to the freeway every day.  

>And does it help to create affordable housing? 

It strongly encourages apartment and condominium living rather than
single-family detached homes (because then there are more dwellings
within walking distance of transit).  It makes it harder to buy a piece
of land in the middle of nowhere and build a subdivision, because while
a developer can build a road or two it usually takes direct involvement
by the transit authority to build or run a new transit line.  To that
extent, it harms the cause of affordable housing.  On the other hand,
it reduces transportation cost, so that one can afford the higher cost
of housing with the car payment you're not paying.  The poor have it
hard either way.

> People around here seem
>to think that BART is responsible for the unbridled growth in the East Bay
>of the San Francisco region.  Any thoughts?

If BART were responsible for the unbridled growth in the East Bay,
then places without BART would not be growing.  Instead, places like
Danville, Dublin, and Livermore are growing quickly.  Growth is
happing around the large freeways, not the transit lines.  To some
extent, BART has failed to adequately attract enough growth to its
stations.

 =Aaron=
-- 
Aaron Priven, fuzzface@cats.ucsc.edu
  Bring in the workers, and bring up the rails;
  We're gonna lay down the tracks, and tear up the trails. 
  Open her heart, let the life-blood flow,
  Gotta get on our way 'cause we're movin' too slow.
    -- Gordon Lightfoot, "Canadian Railroad Trilogy"
Newsgroups: alt.planning.urban
From: ncollins@fox.nstn.ns.ca (Norval Collins)
Subject: Looking for Short Updates on Local Conditions
Organization: NSTN Network Operations Centre, Nova Scotia, Canada
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 22:20:50 GMT

Hello!

We're shortly going to press with a community planning newsletter and it
would be nice to have some background on planning issues in other
communities so people here don't feel that we have all the problems.
"Here" is Halifax, Nova Scotia, a city of 350,000 on the Atlantic Coast of
Canada.


Our current planning issues
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We've spent the last three years working on a solid waste management plan
and don't appear to have accomplished anything except disharmony and
confusion.  The existing landfill is supposed to close in one and a half
more years.  We're also talking about having to shut down part of the ferry
service that's been carrying people (particularly to work) across the
harbour; this is, of course, after spending millions on outer city road
improvements.  We've just finished having the second annual car race
through the centre of the city (I'm not kidding), which has caused a
certain level of discomfort to those nearby inhabitants that couldn't
afford to leave for the county.  We've also decided that it would cost too
much to make the most lucrative industrial park look nicer.  There's much
more but I'm sure this gives you the flavour.

So- I'd like to hear about *your* local planning issues!
--
Norval Collins, MURP, MCIP			ncollins@fox.nstn.ns.ca
Planner at large				Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
From: motto@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (mary.rita.otto)
Newsgroups: alt.wolves
Subject: Re: Working with Wolves
Date: 28 Sep 92 04:31:30 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: AT&T

In article <Bv3By5.7E7@acsu.buffalo.edu> v094lrtr@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (MENION LEAH) writes:
>Any hunter reading this... i ask one question. Why do you hunt? This is
>not a sarcastic statement. I am just looking for the opposing viewpoint
>without any other issues clogging it up.
Brent -
This is the wolves group.  Discussions about "why do hunters hunt" are
plentiful in talk.politics.animals.  Let's not clog up this space
which is reserved for discussion of wolves.

Mary Otto
From: enthrall@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Andrew Wolf)
Newsgroups: alt.wolves
Subject: Wolfs...
Date: 29 Sep 92 01:48:31 GMT
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.

Being one <Andy Wolf> I am extremely interested in the people on this
newsgroup.

My father actually adopted one in a preservation for them in California
<where we are from> and we collect Wolf things...pictures and articles.

He has a wonderful collection in his law office of paintings and original
art work.  Anyhow, what I am interested in is <please e-mail me or post, as
you feel proper> what kind of involvement you all have.

I mean, I was drawn to this group because of my love for the animal, yet
the discussions I've been reading don't really apply to my knowledge
<hunting and hybrids and such....>

Please inform me of what you each do, and if you have any affiliation with
groups, or preservations, or even just catalogs of items.

Thanks for you time!!
From: pierccm@wkuvx1.bitnet
Newsgroups: alt.wolves
Subject: Re: Wolves in Ontario (Canada)
Date: 30 Sep 92 09:14:53 CDT
Distribution: na
Organization: Western Kentucky University, Bowling Green, KY

In article <13010@aurora>, wania@aurora ( development) writes:
> Hi netters, 
> This is my first posting on this news group.
> My interest in wolves is much recent than most
> of you.

It is always good to have more people with a positive attitude toward
wolves around.  Welcome to the group.


> It seems that there are no population
> problems with wolves in Ontario. I have
> heard them a few times while camping in a Prov.
> park close by. Also, Algonquin Prov. Park and the
> surrounding areas supposedly have quite few wolf
> packs. I don't know the numbers and that
> is why I am posting this article.

That is the impression that I have always been under.  The largest
part of the remaining wolf populations, especially the Eastern Timber
Wolf (Canis lupus lycaon), have been forced to the north by various
factors (man in particular).

 
> I read in the local newspaper that there
> is open season for wolves, meaning you can
> shoot, kill a wolf any time of the year and
> there are no limits. I called up the Ministry of
> Natural Resources to confirm this and they said that
> it is true. The World Wild Life federation has urged the
> Ontario Govt. to monitor the killings and the population
> around the Algonquin Area. Like I mentioned earlier,
> my knowledge is limited as far as wolves are concerned,
> so can someone comment on this???

WHAT!!!!!!!!!  I'm going to have a real problem with this one, as I am
sure many others will too.  I thought that the Endangered Species Act
was a world wide (or at least a North American) thing.  Maybe
Stormwind, Ginny or some other the others have some idea, but I am
confused and a little more than upset that this could be allowed.

> BTW I think the wolf species are timber wolves.

That would be my guess, unless some Artic Wolves (Canis lupus arctos)
migrated down, but I don't know about that.
 
  
> Xerxes Wania

Thanks for the info, it is sure to give everyone reason for thought
(which beats the heck out of the recent flaming which has occured).

8-)

Once again, welcome.

Chris Pierce
pierccm@wkuvx1.bitnet
Newsgroups: alt.wolves
From: ibonnycastle@trentu.ca (Ian Bonnycastle)
Subject: Just a note...
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Trent University Computer Services Department
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 17:42:00 GMT

 I would like to say that I am an avid fan of wolves and an admirer too. If 
anyone can give me any information about how to protect this treasure of 
ours, or to find any literature, please tell me.

							Ian Bonnycastle
							TRENT UNIVERSITY

             == "Black Sky, Blue World, Green Eyes" ==
From: kathieg@tinkerbell.EBay.Sun.COM (Good good good good vibrations)
Newsgroups: alt.wolves
Subject: Alaskan Wolf Dog
Date: 30 Sep 92 22:20:09 GMT
Reply-To: kathieg@tinkerbell.EBay.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: tinkerbell.ebay.sun.com

When I lived in Alaska, I had the opportunety to own a dog that was half wolf
and half Alaskan Husky.  Beautiful Dog.  Very loving, very caring, and very 
noisy.

Her name was Goldie Summer.  Best dog I ever had.  She did like to howl at the
moon, and she did like to dig holes in the ground, but she was very protective
of my children and myself.

I ended up giving her away, only due to the fact, I had to move into a smaller 
place and there was not enough room for her.  

Goldie Summer was the best dog I ever owned, and I truely miss her to this day.

I don't understand what the big upset is all about.  Hybred animals can be very
loving and caring animals.  

I have Hybred birds.  They are still birds, just a different bred.

Until you have owned your very own Hybred animal, please don't knock them.

Just my 2 cents worth,

Kathie  ;.)