HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: elie@hdtv.njit.edu (Elie I. Mourad)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: Jesse Helmes { Drug Production in Lebanon}
Date: 4 Sep 92 12:57:06 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <3929@keele.keele.ac.uk>, phd21@seq1.keele.ac.uk (A. Jaber) writes:
|> >From: elie@hdtv.njit.edu (Elie I. Mourad)
|> >
|> >Drug cultivation and export has grown by at least an order of magnitude
|> >if not more. (I'll try to dig up statistics)
|> >While Hashish cultivation has stabilized in terms of tons/year, the 
|> >more lucrative opium production has increased by orders of magnitude.
|> >By some estimates, 230,000 Lebanese use illegal substances.
|> 
|> 
|> 	I know You like to taint Assad for any thing that comes across.
|> 	I am more hostile to Assad than you because your hostility to
|> 	Assad will fade once your sect gets a long with his sect. I am 
|> 	hostile to Assad on more Strategic grounds because I am not
|> 	willing to play his Sectarina Game. So please do not think I am
|> 	degfending Assad.
|> 
|> 	The Drug Problem in Lebanon is an Indigenous Lebanense Problem.
|> 	Assad likes to get his fair share of this trade may be but who 
|> 	what do you expect from a sectarian regime like that of Assad.
|> 
|> A Jaber

Gee, I don't want to be accused of tainting the name of St. Assad.
I'm going to really laugh when Assad signs a peace treaty with Israel.
(How easy it was for him to manipulate people)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: sion@mohican.ctr.columbia.edu (Boudi Sahyoun)
Subject: Re: Jesse Helmes ( Now St Assad)
Organization: Free Lebanon.
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 16:11:39 GMT
X-Posted-From: mohican.ctr.columbia.edu
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <4012@keele.keele.ac.uk> phd21@seq1.kl.ac.uk (A. Jaber) writes:
>
>	I always knew Assad and never was deceived by his rheotoric. I
>	knew Assad from the 69th attack on Tall-AzzaAtar. I assusme you 
>	were happy about what Assad was doing that day.
>

I didn't know Assad was into kinky stuff. Maybe I should reconsider my
position towards him. :-)

I bet the people at Tall el Zaatar had a blast then :-)

Boudi



Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: saouma@bechtel (SAOUMA VICTOR E)
Subject: New Book
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1992 02:59:43 GMT

I just finished reading a most interesting book, which I would like to
recommend to those of you genuinly interested in understanding the real
roots of the Lebanese conflict, and reject simplistic interpretation.
I read many books about the Lebanese conflict, this one is by far the
best, the most comprehensive, and the most intelligent.

Who knows, if enough of us would read it, we could possibly discuss it on
scl!

Georges Corm, "Liban: Les guerres de l'Europe et de L'Orient 1840-1992"
Gallimard, Serie folio actuel, 1992, ISBN 2-07-032646-2.
==========================================================================
From the back cover:

Voitures piegees, enlevements, tortures et disparitions, bombardements
aveugles de quartiers civil, deplacements forces de population: la guerre
qui a frappe le Liban depuis 1975 semble nous avoir habitues aux massacres
et lasse nos bonnes volontes au point qu'on juge comme un moindre mal
l'occupation du pays par la Syrie. Comme si laviolence etait le produit
mysterieux d'une barbarie dont nul n'est responsable, ni les grandes
puissances, ni Israel et les pays arabes, ni les chefs de guerre libanias;
a moins qu'on ne l'explique par la dichotomie simpliste qui opposeriat
"chretiens" et "musulmans".
   Prenant clairement le contre-pied de ces approches unilaterales et
partisanes, cet ouvrage est le premier qui offre une information complete
sur les donnees historiques et sociologiques de la question libanaise,
dans leurs aspects locaux, regionaux et internationaux sur plus d'un
siecle. L'auteur brosse ainsi le tableau des problemes complexes poses par
la fin de l'empire ottoman et la lutte qui s'ensuivit pour le controle de
cette region strategique. Il met a jour les ressorts du jeu subtil mene
aujourd'hui par les grandes puissances et les differentes forces
regionales, en particulier celle de l'exclusivisme et du fondamentalisme
religieux, d'Israel a la monarchie saoudienne et a la revolution
iranienne. Georges Corm se livre egalement a une analyse tres fine du
comportement des communautes, des conflits qui les traversent et les
opposent, dans ce qu'il appelle la "culture de la discorde". Il permet
enfin de comprendre pourquoi le Liban est toujours d'actualite. 
-- 


Victor E. Saouma
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: zughbi@dmpe.csiro.au (another phoenics person)
Subject: Re: Elections in Lebanon
Keywords: Honest ?
Organization: CSIRO. Div of Mineral and Process Engineering.
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 04:21:49 GMT





The Lebanese Government seems to be determined to finish the elections despite
allegations of fraud and rigging and despite wide boycotting by Christians and
some Muslims.

The elections are fraud in some respects and NO ONE can deny that e.g.:
 
1. Why the North, Beirut and the South were left on a Mouhafaza basis
   while the Bekaa and Mount Lebanon were changed to Qada'? The Taif
   agreement calls for elections on Mouhafaza basis. The reason is to
   allow Jumblatt win in Shouf and Alley and prevent for example Geagea
   from winning in Bcharre.
2. Why is this big hurry to do the elections before September (the date
   Taif calls for the redeployment of the Syrian forces)? The current
   Parliament term finishes in Dec. 94 and the president's term in '95.
   The electoral rolls were badly prepared. People born in the 1860's
   were still on them (Harb and many sources), young voters were NOT
   on them (Hoss).
3. Husseini, Maalouli, Albert Mansour, Jumblatt etc (all pro-Syrian) said 
   the elections were rigged. Hoss mentioned some irregularities.
4. Anyone needs a proof of the effectiveness of the opposition? The two
   'elected' Maronite members for Jbeil got 41 (yes forty one) and 131 votes 
    respectively.
5. Anyone who understands the Syrian policy in Lebanon knows that NO Lebanese
   ally of Syria is indispensable. Assad wants everyone to be weak and stay 
   weak and in need of the Syrian brotherly assistance and guidance. Hezbollah
   is not against Syria at all, in fact Assad uses Hezbollah as a bargaining
   chip in his game with the US over Lebanon. Husseini or Hrawi Jr do not matter 
   at all. Any other MP will be another Husseini in his loyalty to his Syrian Masters.
6. No one talked about rigging in the North. The Syrian list of O. Karami was
   to a great extent unopposed except in Tripoli (Zghorta, Koura, Batroun, Bcharre
   all had no or little opposition due to the boycott). 
7. The big problem with the elections, in my opinion, is that they are not
   representative and the law was doctored more than the fraud and rigging
   allegations.

What is certain now is that the Lebanese Government will be in a mess if the elections 
were not cancelled and in a bigger mess if they were. That is where the Syrians want
Lebanon to be. Absolutely unstable, shaky and always in need for the BIG brother
(They call her sister back home) steadying hand.

What we should always remember is not to blame Assad because he is doing what suits
him and serve his interests. We should blame ourselves, the Lebanese, for not putting
the interests of our country first and for the fact that most of our leaders are such 
cheap sub-human (unethical) creatures.
From: phd21@seq1.keele.ac.uk (A. Jaber)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: Jesse Helmes ( Now St Assad)
Date: 4 Sep 92 15:13:47 GMT
Reply-To: phd21@seq1.kl.ac.uk (A. Jaber)
Organization: University of Keele, England

>From: elie@hdtv.njit.edu (Elie I. Mourad)
>
>Gee, I don't want to be accused of tainting the name of St. Assad.
>I'm going to really laugh when Assad signs a peace treaty with Israel.
>(How easy it was for him to manipulate people)

	Today you hate Assad Yesterday you did not, who knows what will
	you do tomorrow.????

	I always knew Assad and never was deceived by his rheotoric. I
	knew Assad from the 69th attack on Tall-AzzaAtar. I assusme you 
	were happy about what Assad was doing that day.

A Jaber
From: fardoun_a@cubldr.colorado.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: Jesse Helms
Date: 4 Sep 92 21:07:01 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder

In article <1992Sep2.125610.24187@ncsu.edu>, hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem) writes:
> In article <1992Sep1.234416.8624@njitgw.njit.edu>, elie@hdtv.njit.edu
> (Elie I. Mourad) writes:
>> 
>> From CLAO:
>> ----------
>> Senator Jesse Helms wrote in today's Washington Post that the United States
>> should stop selling to Syria civilian products with potential military
>> applications. Helms added: "We can stop giving Syria military preferences.
>> We can refuse to recognize the Hrawi regime." Senator Helms concluded:
>> "Assad believes the United States will sacrifice Lebanon to the peace
>> process. We must advise Assad that peace should be for everyone. Lebanon
>> should not be occupied by Syrian troops or by a Syrian puppet regime."
> 
> Watch out when playing with the devil.
> 
> I wrote to Senator Helms about the Israeli attacks on Lebanon some time
> ago and in his reply he did not once mention Israel but instead wrote on
> and on about Syria. I don't think Senator Helms would have any problem
> with an Israeli puppet regime in Lebanon. He certainly doesn't give a
> damn about Israeli troops rocketting and shelling Lebanese villages.
> 
> Brad Hernlem (hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU)
neither too many phenicians who write everyday pages and pages does. actually 
Ijust came from lebanon few weeks ago. The overall life is very normal and much
better than the last time I was there in 1988.  is syria in control of lebanon
? in general yes.  do people want to vote? in the south (TYRE area) it seemed
like everybody wanted to vote. Kamel al-assaad who was the president of the
parliment (and he was a big supporter of bashir al-gameyel and his family) 
had a big convention for his supporters in kfartebnit near nabatyieh without 
any major incident. eventhough all militias in the south do not like him. 
about the question of Aoun in other posts on this net 
do people like him? In tyre area where I spent most of my time none mentioned 
that Aoun will save them or he is who will save the country. on the contrary
most pf the people in the south wish that he will never come back. He and his 
supporters never remembered the south when it was and still being bombed
everyday by Israel and its supporters. Finally I hope that people on this net
read ar try to read about the Israeli occupation in the south and its results. 
whole villages like Al-khyam where about 30,000 people used to live before 1978 
is empty except from about 300 elderly people. and the story goes on and on 
for yaron and bintjbail, ainata houla and hundreds of other villages. 
It is not that we support the syrian presence in lebanon but we do not and 
will not and will fight the israeli occupation and hope those who are dying 
because the election took place, try to remember or mention just once that 
area where the israeli bomb almost every day in jebaa and mlikh and the other 
area under the israeli occupation
From: phd21@seq1.keele.ac.uk (A. Jaber)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: Jesse Helmes
Date: 3 Sep 92 16:44:22 GMT
Reply-To: phd21@seq1.kl.ac.uk (A. Jaber)
Organization: University of Keele, England

>From: elie@hdtv.njit.edu (Elie I. Mourad)

Elie Mourad Wrote about Jesse Helmes:

>very pro-Lebanon. He is also well informed about the Syrian controlled 
>drug trafficking in Lebanon. 

	Does that mean there was no drug trade in Lebanon before Syria
	started to control it?

	Does that mean Syria controls the Lebanense Drug Dealers who are
	in USA mainly Manahattan?

>As a matter of fact I should write a card thanking him.

	Give him my best wishes!!!!!

>Regards, Elie.


A Jaber
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: eliedw@ulrik.uio.no (Elie Dib Wardini)
Subject: Re: (AOUN SUPPORTERS OVERWHELMING) Re: Elections in Lebanon
Organization: Univerity of Oslo, Semitics dep.
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 08:30:53 GMT

In article <1992Sep02.003515.2451235@locus.com> jle@locus.com (John
Elghani/10000000) writes:

>
>He also mentioned that it is echoing in Lebanon that as soon as
>the Syrian Army leaves the nation, it is very likely that the
>Quwwat and others will carry further massacres in the Palestinian
>refugee camps since they are accusing the Palestinians of destroying
>Lebanon.  
>
>Note that the above 3 points were said to me by others.  I am
>just telling you all what I heard.  Don't flame me if you 
>don't like that muslims support Aoun, or Quwwat will massacre, or ...

John I see that these were reports that you heard. But what do you think of
them?

I would like to comment on one:

The man, among the Quwwat, who was directly responsible for the Massacres of
Sabra and Shatila, who we thought at first was paied by Israel, is now the
minister of refugees and an *appointed* deputy.

He is the only "Maronite" who is still in government.

THis man Elie Hobeika, has proved to be a perfect ally to the Syrians. In the
end, Geagea, Hobeika's companion and emnemy have also proved to be Syria's best
intruments in Lebanon.

These two men I hope will leave Lebanon together with their Syrian masters! But
whom am I to ask a fellow Lebanese to leave his own country?

Of course, when these men support or are part of such an "equalitarian"
government what can I say?

>jle
>


elie wardini
From: bhattach@dip.eecs.umich.edu (sayan bhattacharyya)
Subject: Re: Speculation re: Meaning of Almitra
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor, MI
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 20:54:46 GMT

In article <angel-070892085547@med007.usask.ca> angel@herald.usask.ca (Joseph F. Angel) writes:
>In article <1992Aug6.171215.23407@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>, haidar@ces.cwru.edu
>(H. Harmanani) wrote:
>> 
>> In article <NMOUAWAD.92Aug6114838@math.waterloo.edu> nmouawad@waterloo.edu (Naji Mouawad) writes:
>> 
>> >As such I would be inclined to guess that "al-Mitra" in Gibran's
>> >Prophet is a priestess (a pastor). She is the one to ask him the
>> >question on love.
>> >
>
>[...]
>
>> 
>> Mikhail Naime ... [...]
>> says that al mitra refers to Mary Haskel, the woman Gibran knew.  
>> Other researchers may have different opinion though.
>> 
>
>
>And Berthe Y. Choueiry writes:
>
>>   "Mitra" seems to be the name of an Indian God/Goddess.
>
>
>Another speculation:
>
>The Syriac root YTR = to gain, to accrue, to exceed, to increase.... From
>this we have the derivative Mitro = an excellent person, a distinguished
>one (masculine gender).
>
>Joe

Yet another speculation :

Mithras was , I think , the sun-god in ancient Persia . The earliest
Indian religious text, the Rig Veda , refers to the three gods Indra,
Mitra and Varuna and it is thought that this "Mitra" is derived from
the ancient Persian "Mithras" . So Berthe Y. Choueiry is right in this
respect.

As to what could be the derivation of Gibran's "al-Mitra", I however
have no clue.

-Sayan Bhattacharyya

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sayan Bhattacharyya                     The truth is hard
Artificial Intelligence Lab             And I loved the truth...
The University of Michigan                 (Rabindranath Tagore)




Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: rached@sample.eng.ohio-state.edu (Rached Zantout)
Subject: Elections in Lebanon
Keywords: Honest ?
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept of Electrical Engineering
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 02:55:19 GMT

Hi Fellow netters

Today I phoned my father in Lebanon (no not that anxious about the elections
but wanted to know how my father was). So after exhausting all the subjects, I
asked him about THE ELECTIONS. The first question I had was about elections in
the North and who passed ? 
He couldn't remember all the names but he said that the list of Omar Karami passed
but got beaten in two seats by the "Islamists" (Fundamentalists a la trend
nowadays) Fathi Yakan and another guy (I cannot remember the name) who are
considered "Fundamentalists" won seats in the new parliament.
Then my father (without provocation from me) expresed his thoughts about the
elections. He said that those were the most honest elections he has ever
witnessed he even said " You go in, You cast your vote and nobody disturbs you"
and he added "Anybody saying there is forgery doesn't know what he is talking
about". 
Then came the turn for Yesterday's phase of elections, he said that Hizbollah's
candidates won one seat for the shiaa and one for the sunni Muslims. Also Mr.
Traboulsi (or Nsouli is it ? see UPI report) is from the group of Sheikh Abdallah
Alhabashi (more known as AlAhbash in Beirut) "another Fundamentalist".

Now with all those conflicting reports about the election (To tell you the truth
I beleive my father), one is supposed to be able to sort the truth out. If the
elections were rigged by Syria would any "Muslim Fundamentalist" ever win ? I
don't think so since those same "Muslim Fundamentalists" especially in the North
have opposed Syria in many things and do not act according to its wishes. 

After hearing what my father said and seeing the results I can safely say that
there are some old faces that got reelected but others have been elected by the
people, I know for sure that the supporters of Hizballah's candidates are a lot
and therefore it is only logical that they will pass. The same goes for Dr. Hoss
who is very much loved by the West-Beirut (if not all Beirut) community and
therefore it is only logical to see him victorious over Rashid Solh who if you
cancel his last name is unknown to the voting generation. The same goes for
"Muslim Fundamentalists" who have their popular base in the North.

Finally, it is a shame that the opposition did not run in the elections, since if
they had done so we would have known for sure how much every leader of the so
called opposition has support among his supposed followers. Till now we hear
speculations about how much this person is honored or loved in this area or the
other. The elections were the only way to verify those claims. Unfortunately,
those that didn't participate will not be able to proof that they are supported
by the people or not !

I wish the Slama's had participated in the elections so that we see how much
popular support the have.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: eliedw@ulrik.uio.no (Elie Dib Wardini)
Subject: Re: Elections in Lebanon
Organization: Univerity of Oslo, Semitics dep.
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 08:51:05 GMT

In article <1992Sep01.181744.2450186@locus.com> jle@locus.com (John
Elghani/10000000) writes:


etc.


>
>In fact, many of the candidates in the North happened to be
>very much pro-Syria, but lost.  That tells you that Sister
>Syria did force a faithfull elections in Lebanon.    I
>wonder how did Al Hrawi's son lose in the elections? 
>Apparently, the elections were very fair. Lets wish that
>what happened in Algeria does not happen in OUR lebanon.


John, during the discussions at Taif, I did not understand why it was so
important to increase the number of the parliamentry seats from 99 to 128 (as
the Syrians wanted) but that after much delibertaion there was a compromise to
make it 108.

After Taif, they were increased by the ruberstamp parliament to 128.

The reason I was surpised, was not the debate tself, but why did the Syrians
insist on this?

It took some time, I must admit, before I understood.

note: 

128 seats of parliament:

 15 to the fundamentalists (sunni ans Shia),
  5 to the supporters of Aoun
  5 to the supporters of Amine Gemayel
  5 to the supporters of Geagea
 10 independant
~~~~~
 40 seats to the anti Syrian opposition, which is by fact 
    divided since Fundamentalists and the others do not mix.

this leaves us with: 88 seats.

take 20 of these and give them to people as Dr. Salim el-Hoss, Najah Wakim and
their likes (is 20 too much?)

and you are left with 68 seats with nothing but puppets!

does this sound interesting?

anyway, don't worry, Roy Hrawi, habiibe, did not win, but his cousin did!


>
>jle
>

elie wardini
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: sion@apache.ctr.columbia.edu (Boudi Sahyoun)
Subject: Re: Election news
Organization: Free Lebanon
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 16:20:43 GMT
X-Posted-From: apache.ctr.columbia.edu
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1992Aug26.151240.23083@zip.eecs.umich.edu> ayman@eecs.umich.edu (Ayman I. Kayssi) writes:
>The government has decided to proceed with the elections, as scheduled, despite
>the opposition of Fares Boueiz and another minister(Georges Saadeh?), and 
>despite Husseini's allegations of widespread fraud in Baalbak during the first
>phase of the elections. 


Fares Boueiz and Georges Saadeh resigned according to new reports we just
received at LebNet.



Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: eliedw@ulrik.uio.no (Elie Dib Wardini)
Subject: Re: Elections in Lebanon
Organization: Univerity of Oslo, Semitics dep.
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 10:25:54 GMT

In article <1992Sep1.042149.20878@dmpe.csiro.au> zughbi@dmpe.csiro.au (another
phoenics person) writes:
>

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.

etc.

I second this phoenics person's thoughts.

I would add some of my own obeservations:

8. I myself saw on French news (TV5 Europe) that there were
   people (I do not know whom they represented) who stood
   outside the polling stations and put a list in the hands
	of people saying: This "IS" the list that you should
	choose.

9. Jim Muir reported on BBC 30.8.92 that he himself had seen
	some 1000 (yes one thousand) names whose date of birth
	was in the 1800's indicating tha Lebanon was the best
	place in the world  to live f you want live long.

10. note what a LebNetter wrote:
 
Subject: Re: "Elections Are they REAL !!!!"
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92

I would like to share this story with everyone because to me it was a kind of
personal experience.  Last week, my mother came from Lebanon to visit me in the
United States.  I was really happy for her presence and I was also happy to
hear from her about Lebanon.  My first question to my mother was "mom did you
elect ?" she replied "yes off course" but I felt that she said it with irony. 
I asked her "tell me mom what
happened" , she answered "Let me tell you the story ":

	" On Sunday the first day of election after your dad insisted that I go and
elect I said to myself why not.  So I took your nefew  and went to the School
where people casted their ballets.  I had all the documents and my Lebaneese
Identification with me.  When I approached the place where they check the
records, the man that checked my record told me well Mrs ... you allready have
elected !!! and he continued .. Did you want to elect twice ?? .  I told him
that there is a mistake I did not elect yet, but the man insisted that I did
and Even he showed me who I elected.  I was shocked and I walked away cussing
... on them and their election.  That 's the real story of the election my son
"
 

11. Again more important than the actual rigging and
	cheating, is the way the process got started. THe aim
	with elections is to let the people be represented and
	not to find some sort of legitimacy for some government.
	Note for example that one of the first things the Hrawi
	regime did, was to change the Lebanese passports. THis
	cost the country a fortune,mand many Lebanese much
	trouble. The reason: To challenge the legitimacy of Aoun,
	and impose theirs.

Lebanese want elections. We want better elections than we had in the past.

We do not want elections that will serve individuals and/or governments. We
want elections that are for the best of Lebanon.

Note the peole who were *NOT* included in the electoral process: Lebanese
abroad, any one who openly and verbally opposes the Syrian occupation of
Lebanon.

elie wardini