From: TAF102@psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
Subject: re: Star Trek's Classics - TOP 10 LIST (STII DEBATE)
Date: 17 Apr 92 18:12:08 GMT
Article-I.D.: psuvm.92108.141208TAF102
Organization: Penn State University



First a little background on this argument.  dave@cs.arizonaedu (Dave Schauman)
said that his enjoyment of STII was hampered by the fact that "...Spock's
spectacular recovery in STIII was telegraphed so obviously..."  I took issue
with this statement because as I said:

>>Actually...when STII:TWOK was released Leonard Nimoy did not plan to make
>>any more Star Trek movies.  Spock was REALLY suppose to be dead and stay
>>dead.  When Nimoy was convinced to come back and make STIII:TSFS, scenes
>>were added to the original version of STII:TWOK...or rather certain scenes
>>were altered.  Remember when McCoy tries to stop Spock...well, when STII
>>was released all Spock did was administer the nerve pinch to McCoy.  The
>>altered scene has Spock using the mind-touch to give his katra to McCoy
>>["REMEMBER..." Spock says] as he eases his unconscious friend to the floor.

Then Matt Hucke said (paraphrased):
"No...I was 11 years old when STII was released..." (Matt, you also said that
you have magazines which discuss the "REMEMBER" scene and how it would be used
in STIII.  You say that these are dated pre-STIII.  Now ... I don't know about
this.  Did they specifically refer to this scene or just to how Spock could be
brought back?  I suspect that it may be the later.  The success of STII:TWoK
doubtless generated Paramount's interest in a third movie not long after STII
was released.)

And Jimmy Miller added:
"No...I was 17 years old ... and 'REMEMBER' was in the movie..."

Well, guys...since everyone seems to be traveling down memory lane here...
I was also 17 years old when STII came out.  I saw it the day it was released
in downtown Philly and stood in line for hours to buy my ticket.  The scenes
that we have been talking about in STII are nearly identical to the scenes
that Kirk views in STIII when he is trying to piece together what Spock did.
The only difference is that in the footage shown in STIII Spock says "REMEMBER"
to McCoy, etc.  This was not in STII!

Now to add to the confusion...ian@ug.cs.dal.ca (Ian Littlewood) in
<1992Apr15.130854.21308@cs.dal.ca> says:

>Yes, you're absolutely right...the movie release of ST:TWOK did not have
>Spock transferring his Katra to Bones -- there were a couple of other
>changes too, but the last time I saw THAT version of STII:TWOK was in 1982,
>so I can't remember...

I think that a lot of people are confused on this...I think that they are
not seeing the subtle difference in how these scenes were altered to fit the
premise of STIII.  Or rather people believe that what they see in STIII was
what they saw in STII--it's not!

Anyway ... the point of my initial post on this subject was that since
Spock was suppose to be dead and stay dead when STII was made, the
actors, writers, director, etc. made STII with that in mind.  Therefore,
it is unfair to judge STII in light of later events.  STII was made as a
stand alone piece...to say that the events of STIII were obvious and of
little surprise...and to count that against STII seems wrong.

The premise of STIII merely took advantage of the how Spock's death was
depicted in the previous movie.

======================================================================
Tracy A. Freeling
Department of Petroleum & Natural Gas Engineering
Pennsylvania State University
Internet:  TAF102@psuvm.psu.edu,tracy@pngrt.pnge.psu.edu