HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: slin@cisco.com (Steven Lin)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.appletalk
Subject: Re: CLAIM: Seed Routers are not Nodes
Date: 22 Nov 92 17:31:27
Organization: cisco Systems, Inc.
	<winders-191192110001@macwinders.support.apple.com>
	<chris.722214001@ph-meter.beckman.uiuc.edu> <69920@cup.portal.com>
	<2195@shaman.wv.tek.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: regal.cisco.com
In-reply-to: andrew@frip.WV.TEK.COM's message of 21 Nov 92 01:17:30 GMT

In article <2195@shaman.wv.tek.com> andrew@frip.WV.TEK.COM (Andrew Klossner) writes:

   >>>winders@aux.support.apple.com (Scott Winders) writes:

   ... but Scott didn't write what follows.  Darryl got the attribution wrong.

   > Any router, once running, becomes a SEED router.

   Let's please not redefine Apple's terminology?  From the "Inside
   AppleTalk #2" glossary:

	   "seed router: an internet router in an AppleTalk network that
	   has the network number range built into its port descriptor."

   By this definition, non-seed routers do not transform into seed routers
   once the net comes up, because their network number ranges do not
   become built-in.

I suppose the proper use of the word "seed" has become a little
muddled.  Nevertheless, whoever made the statement, "Any router, once
running, becomes a SEED router," had the right idea.  Once a router
comes up, it is allowed to provide information about the network to
other routers that are starting up.  More precisely, on extended
networks it is allowed to answer a ZIP GetNetInfo Request with a
GetNetInfo Reply.  Hence, it, in essence, acts like a seed router,
although it initially may not have been one.

Steve
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.appletalk
From: jeffc@comb1.comb.umd.edu (Jeff Clowser; IRG)
Subject: Re: CAP access from home?
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Maryland, Center of Marine Biotechnology
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 19:33:00 GMT

In article <BxxAwC.II2@news.chalmers.se>, puetter@pe.chalmers.se writes...
>Hi CAP-lovers!
> 
>We have a CAP AFP-server at work. When I'm working at home I often need
>access to our university network, so I successfully use MacSLIP to login.
>The only thing I really miss is a convenient access to the CAP volume.
> 
>As I see it there are two possible ways to do this:
> 
>1) A program on our Sun (the CAP server) that will, in some way, assemble
>   all three parts of a CAP file in some format that can be transfered over
>   the SLIP connection to my home Mac (eg. ftp). Does such a program exist?
>   I know of "cvt2apple" but how do I convert the file to something useful
>   at home?
> 
>2) Some program that would let my home Mac connect to the CAP volume with
>   AppleTalk (i.e. the normal way it's done when I'm at the university). This
>   would be the prefered way I guess.
> 
>How do you do this? I can't be the only one wanting to do this?!?!?
>ARA is out of the question for us since our Annex terminal server doesn't handle
>it.
> 
>Any help would be appreciated
> 
>Regards
>Johan
> 
>--
>Johan Puetter, Production Engineering, Chalmers University of Technology,
>Sweden. Internet: puetter@pe.chalmers.se


Shiva makes a product called the Netmodem, which allows you to dial into an
Appletalk network.  It resides on the network as a node, and passes appletalk
packets between the net and your Mac at home.  For ARA, there is the Lanrover,
also by Shiva, I think.  I'm sure Shiva is not the only company who makes 
these, but I can't think of any off the top of my head.

===============================================================================
Jeff Clowser		    			     "A keyboard... how quaint"
JeffC@comb1.comb.umd.edu
Network Administrator, Macintosh Technical Support
Information Resources Group, Maryland Biotechnology Institute
University of Maryland
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.appletalk
From: les@chinet.chi.il.us (Leslie Mikesell)
Subject: SysVr4 <-AT&T StarGroup -> Ethertalk?
Organization: Chinet - Public Access UNIX
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 20:11:36 GMT

I need to connect a AT&T StarGroup network to the fiery controller of
a xerox color copier/printer that only talks appletalk or ethertalk.
The server is running SysVr4 with the OSI StarGroup protocol over
10BaseT.  Should I just buy the whole Mac support add-on or is there
some other way to do this?   Has anyone ported CAP to r4?  Dedicating
a PC with PHONENET or something similar as a gateway might work if  
the software to redirect LPT output didn't conflict with the StarGroup
netbios redirector.  We also have a group using OS/2 and token ring
that will need to be connected as well. 

Les Mikesell
  les@chinet.chi.il.us
From: bstrong@doc.bmd.trw.com
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.appletalk
Subject: Neophyte CAP 6.0 question - help needed
Date: 16 Nov 92 08:20:03 MST
Distribution: world


I am extremely inexperienced with CAP, but have the task of trying to get
it to work.  We have a SUN 3/150 with CAP 5.0 running right now.  Most of
the things we use it for (advertising appletalk printers as lpr queues)
work fine.  However, we have had trouble getting MACs with 7.0 LW drivers
printing to a PostScript printer we are advertising through lwsrv as an
appletalk printer.  It is actually an Imagen 7320 on ethernet.  I have now
upgraded to CAP 6.0 (but I have not put it in an system directories yet -
it still resides in a test directory in my account).  I am still unable
to get the 7.0 LW drivers to print - the printer will shoot out the message
"Error:  Flushing until EOF seen".  Not knowing PostScript that well I have
been unable to see what the problem is so far.  But before I explore the
PS code in too great detail, I thought I would see what it is with lwsrv
that I am undoubtedly doing wrong.  I will give examples of lwsrv commands
I have issued (all of which have not worked for me):

lwsrv -n Imagen-5th -p imagen_5th -f /usr2/tempcap/LWPlusFonts -A on -N
lwsrv -n Imagen-5th -p imagen_5th -f /usr2/tempcap/LWPlusFonts -N
lwsrv -n Imagen-5th -p imagen_5th -f /usr2/tempcap/LWPlusFonts -e -N

Looking at the PS code, a procset gets inserted, do I still need the -a flag 
with some adicts file?  If so, where do I get an adicts file for 6.0 (I didn't 
see one as part of the CAP files, but I not the most observant person in the
world).  

Could someone PLEASE give me an example command that should work and/or
tell me what I am doing wrong.  As I said, I really have no idea what I 
am doing so ANY help would be much appreciated.  Thanks in advance.
Please send comments/help/examples to

Bryan_Strong@oz.bmd.trw.com or bstrong@batman.bmd.trw.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.appletalk
From: peter@merlin.acadiau.ca (Peter Steele)
Subject: Defining a generic input filter for CAP
Organization: Acadia University
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 19:52:11 GMT

The man page on papif mentions that Transcript uses a single
input filter, relying on the convention that for a printer x,
there is a /usr/spool/lpd/x defined for the printer. I want to
do this same thing for my CAP setup. The man page gives a
sample script that could be used as a papif wrapper:

          #!/bin/sh
          BANNERLAST=1
          PSTEXT=/usr/local/lib/ps/pstext
          export BANNERLAST PSTEXT
          # pass the printer name and the arguments lpd passed us
          /usr/local/cap/papif -P ps $*

I want to modify this so that the -P option passes the name
of the printer as defined in /usr/spool/lpd. How do I determine
what queue name to access from within this script? It is as
simple as the current working directory?
--
Peter Steele        Unix Services Manager            peter.steele@acadiau.ca 
Acadia Univ., Wolfville, NS, Canada B0P 1X0  902-542-2201  Fax: 902-542-4364
From: bwiner@alfred.carleton.ca (Bruce Winer)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.appletalk
Subject: PAP errors from CAP - Help!
Date: 23 Nov 92 21:59:33 GMT
Organization: Carleton University


I have CAP running on a Sparc 2 - AUFS is working fine.
When I try to use isrv - the imagewriter "server" (I know it's not recommended)
I get the following errors with the -dp flag.


        .
        .
        .

Sending  to [44375,123]
pap: papread called: cno 0
pap: prr entry on cno 0, seq 12
[HS: PAPTYPE 8, STATE 2, PCID 0]
Sending  to [44375,123]
remote sent close request
pap: cancel timeout on PAP socket
pap: readdone cancelling ttimer!
pap: cancel timeout on PAP socket
PAPRead error -3109
pap: papwrite: cno 0, datasize 0, eof yes
PAPWrite error -1
pap: papclose: cno 0

The Mac happily finds the imagewriter and thinks is has sent the printout
successfully to the "printer" - nothing gets to the printer. If I use lpr
I can print from Unix to the imagewriter without any problem.

Can anyone suggest what the problem is or in which direction I should look?

Thanks,
-----
Bruce Winer                     | Internet: bwiner@ccs.carleton.ca
Faculty of Social Sciences      | 
Carleton University             | Tel: (613) 788-2600 ext. 3919
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada K1S 5B6 | Fax: (613) 788-3742
From: Anders.Liljegren@udac.uu.se (Anders Liljegren)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.appletalk
Subject: MacTCP over Async Appletalk
Date: 17 Nov 92 08:19:46 GMT
Followup-To: comp.protocols.appletalk
Organization: UDAC

I have tried setting up MacTCP over Async Appletalk2 for a couple of days 
now without success. The only indication that it should be possible is
a paragraph in the user docs:

"It is possible to run MacTCP based programs such as Telnet, Eudora and
Fetch over an Async AppleTalk session. In order for this to work, the ARNS
server must be running on a network that supports static or dynamic
allocation of IP addresses on the EtherTalk network. Contact the ARNS
administrator if your MacTCP-based programs are unable to get an IP address
from the network."

Is there anyone who had managed to this to work? How do you set it up?
Should I select the Async icon in the MacTCP dialog box? Is there some
other
requirement?

I have tried it with a static address and everything looks fine until I try
to connect to some other computer over TCP/IP. The modem send/receive
lights
blink, but I get no reply.

======================================================================
Anders Liljegren                      Snail mail:   UDAC
Phone:  +46 18 18 77 51                             Box 174
Fax:    +46 18 51 66 00                             S-751 04 UPPSALA
E-mail: Anders.Liljegren@UDAC.UU.SE                 Sweden
======================================================================
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.appletalk
Subject: Re: CLAIM: Seed Routers are not Nodes
From: denny@alisa.com (Bob Denny)
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 18:43:18 GMT
Organization: Alisa Systems, Inc.

In <SLIN.92Nov19112036@regal.cisco.com> slin@cisco.com (Steven Lin) writes:

> In article <chris.722141659@ph-meter.beckman.uiuc.edu>
       chris@ph-meter.beckman.uiuc.edu (Chris Gressley) writes:
> 
>    The manufacturer of our routers has made a very strange claim
>    concerning their implementation of AppleTalk...
>    [...]
>    The folks who make our routers make the following two claims:
> 
>    1. A "router" is not a "node". Nodes and routers are distinct sorts of
>    things.
> 
>    2. Since a router is not a node, if a router is a seed router, it need
>    not dynamically acquire a node ID but can instead have one statically
>    assigned, since a seed router has statically assigned port descriptor
>    information.
> [... excellent response here ...] 

I would like to add one thing. By making all of your routers seed routers,
you are asking for trouble. Why not make _none_ of them seed routers? If
they are all seed routers, you must set each one of them up manually so as
to be SURE they have the correct data when they are brought on line. Well,
if you have to do that, why even use seed routing? 

Our company has been in the AppleTalk world since 1985, and we went thru
the design and implementation phases of Phase 2 (ugh!) with great pain. Our
customer base took three years to make the change. Along the way, we
learned that seed routing is a two-edged sword. If you can limit the number
of seed routers to one or two, and make damn sure they are right, it's a
Good Thing. The more seed routers you have, the more trouble you are asking
for. Having routers seed other seed routers is akin to bringing too much
uranium together too close.
_______________________________________________________________________________
Robert B. Denny                                           voice: (818) 792-9474
Alisa Systems, Inc.                                         fax: (818) 792-4068
Pasadena, CA                         (denny@alisa.com, ..uunet!alisa.com!denny)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.appletalk
From: fsgreen@dredd.lerc.nasa.gov (Doug Greenwald)
Subject: SUMMARY:  Need AppleTalk Frame/Header Formats
Originator: fsgreen@dredd
Organization: Institute for Computational Mechanics in Propulsion
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 20:44:22 GMT

I wish to thank the following people for responding to my request for
AppleTalk frame headers for the small network analyzer I'm writing.  Only one
person (thanx Scott Winders) sent me information more than "buy Inside
Appletalk", so my analyzer is fairly weak on Ethertalk breakdowns (ie it does
no breakdown of Ethertalk packets other than it is an Ethertalk packet).

 Christopher_Ranch@Novell.COM (Christopher Ranch)
 wingo@apple.com (Tony Wingo)
 Bill Marshall <marshall@cs.iastate.edu>
 JEFFC@COMB1.COMB.UMD.EDU
 Michel.Davidoff@sonoma.edu (Michel Davidoff)
 glen@Cayman.COM (Glen B. Glater)
 shcrensh@eos.ncsu.edu
 jkyser@netcom.com (Jeff Kyser)
 litbu741@vader.cc.emory.edu (Shyela Aberman)
 winders@aux.support.apple.com (Scott Winders)

For people that are interested in the program, it runs on the sun4c platform
under SunOS 4.1.x (Solaris 1.x).  It takes one argument (the number of
packets to grab) and generates a list of packets received (and decodes the
packets I've been able to find time and info to decode), and then generates
a packet breakdown.  It's a very simple program.  Time permitting, I will
continue to add packet decoding and some filtering ability.  People that
can send me some details about decoding Ethertalk packets will definately
get any updates I make to the program (call me cheap, but paying $40 for a
book that I only need a couple of tables out of is pointless - I don't need
to run an Appletalk net, I just need some general info).

-- 
Doug Greenwald                       fsgreen@icomp01.lerc.nasa.gov
Sun System Administrator             (216) 433 5965
ICOMP, NASA Lewis Research Center
From: dstine@cisco.com (David Stine)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.appletalk
Subject: Re: RTMP question
Date: 15 Nov 1992 17:07:57 GMT
Organization: cisco Systems, Menlo Park, California, USA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: regal.cisco.com

In article <don-131192134021@nocmac.cis.brown.edu> don@bodovipa.cis.brown.edu (Donald Wright) writes:
> If a FastPath (Gator box, whatever) happened to be busy doing file transfer
> for instance, could this affect the rate at which RTMP updates are sent, or
> is it completely timer driven and/or has priority to send its packets.

I can't speak as to the internal design of FastPaths and Cayman routers, but
in the internals of a cisco routers, I can say that this is possible.
(if you get the router very busy with switching incoming traffic, the
generation of _more_ traffic becomes a little difficult at times). It is less
often seen in our routers, since we have alot more CPU horsepower to exhaust
before you would see such a situation. But then there are usually 3 to 5 other
protocols running at the same time as AppleTalk...

It is also possible that collisions can take out RTMP update packets after
they have been sent by the router. This is somewhat less likely.

>My question comes up because if I sit at the console of the Novell print
>server and watch the RTMP table, the next hop route to any given IP site is
>doing a 'musical chair routine' among the 30 some FastPaths.  Every 10
>seconds or some the next hop changes nodes on the ethertalk segment!

Well, this is something of an open area in the AppleTalk end-node design.
Implementors who follow "Inside AppleTalk" to the letter will have their
designated router possibly switch with every incoming RTMP packet. Please
refer to pp. 5-18 and 5-19 in "Inside AppleTalk", 2nd. Ed.

Some would say that this is a nuisance in AppleTalk, that it confuses the
issue of trying to figure out where your traffic is going and why. These folks
tend to come from the IP world, where you either tell a Unix host to
(statically) designate a default route to a router for all traffic or you are
running a routing protocol which tends to "lock on" to a path.

So there are some AppleTalk end-node implementations which tend to stick with
the first router they hear as the value for A-ROUTER until they quit hearing
said router, at which time they pick another router on the cable.

Then there is the flip side of the coin: by switching the value for A-ROUTER
with every update, you effect a sort of "load sharing" between the routers
present on a cable.

Which is better? I'm sure we can find arguments in favor of both.

dsa
From: karches@utdallas.edu (Tom Karches)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.appletalk
Subject: Re: looking for CHEAP Mac ethernet cards
Date: 20 Nov 92 16:19:55 GMT
Organization: Univ. of Texas at Dallas

In article <bill.722133613@castor> bill@cognet.ucla.edu (William M. Eldridge) writes:
>
>>>I installed some Asante LC ethernet cards with the 4.0 driver that shipped
>>>
>>>other stuff deleted
>
>>I would try using the Apple drivers instead of the Asante drivers
>>(yes, they work.) The Asante drivers have some conflicts with MacTCP
>>that the Apple drivers don't.
>
>Asante pretty well acknowledged their problems with the LC, and
>did seem to be responsive in getting out new drivers (even giving
>out an ftp site where you can download it).
>
>Where can I get the Apple drivers?  Do these work with Nuvotech
>cards as well?
>
The Apple drivers come on the Network Installer Disk from Apple.
The latest can be downloaded from ftp.apple.com

Regards,
Tom Karches
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom Karches          |"If rap music had been around when I was a kid,
karches@utdallas.edu | I would have become a musician instead of a politician."
karches@holonet.net  '-------------------------------------- Richard Nixon
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.appletalk
From: umar@ctrvx1.vanderbilt.edu (UMAR)
Subject: CAP-porting to AIX-HELP needed
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Vanderbilt University
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 18:42:00 GMT

I just ported cap60.pl100.tar.Z to an RS/6000, AIX 3.2.3
Following is my atalk.local info:
20.1 72 Caravan 
20.16 1 129.59.16.1

Following are the error messages I get when running some of the
CAP programs:
# atlook
abInit: [ddp:  20.01, 72] starting
Looking for =:=@* ...
# atis
abInit: [ddp:  20.01, 72] starting
11:05:21 11/19/92  Reply num max for lkup reply is 5 (based on 104)
11:05:21 11/19/92  NIS: NIS socket not available: error -1: Address already in u
se
11:05:21 11/19/92  ECHO: ECHO socket not available: error -1: Address already in
 use
# getzones
error -1096 getting zone list
# atpinger
abInit: [ddp:  20.01, 72] starting
Looking for =:=@* ...
# atistest
CAP distribution 6.00 using UDP encapsulation, January 1991
Copyright (c) 1986,1987,1988 by The Trustees of Columbia University in the City 
of New York

abInit: [ddp:  20.01, 72] starting
debugging NBP
Registering "atis test:testing@*"
NBP SndNBP: sending
NBP nbp_timeout: 4 tick timeout on 804780936, 3 remain
NBP SndNBP: sending
NBP nbp_timeout: 4 tick timeout on 804780936, 2 remain
NBP SndNBP: sending
NBP nbp_timeout: 4 tick timeout on 804780936, 1 remain
NBP SndNBP: sending
NBP nbp_timeout: 4 tick timeout on 804780936, 0 remain
NBP SndNBP: sending
NBP nbp_timeout: 4 tick timeout on 804780936, 3 remain
NBP SndNBP: sending
NBP nbp_timeout: 4 tick timeout on 804780936, 2 remain
NBP SndNBP: sending
NBP nbp_timeout: 4 tick timeout on 804780936, 1 remain
NBP SndNBP: sending
NBP nbp_timeout: 4 tick timeout on 804780936, 0 remain
nbp register error because: couldn't register name - is atis running?



Does anyone have an idea what goes wrong?
This seems like it could be such a useful package for us...and
I hope to get it to work ...

Thanks in advance for the time taken for a response!
Verena
verena@usrs.cc.vanderbilt.edu

Newsgroups: comp.protocols.appletalk
From: jeffl@lab240a.ee.unsw.edu.au (jeff lee)
Subject: Re: Where to find CAP 6.0
Organization: Systems & Control, UNSW
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 06:14:45 GMT

In article <DAVIS.92Nov7212000@adenosine.lugg.utah.edu> davis@lugg.utah.edu (Darrell R. Davis) writes:


>Sorry to bother, but all I can locate is CAP 5.0.  Everyone talks
>about CAP 6.0. 

>Reply to the E-mail address below.

>Thanks,

>--------------------------------------------------------------
>     
>Darrell R. Davis     
>Medicinal Chemistry  
>University of Utah  
>SLC,  UT  84112  
>(801) 581-7006  
>FAX:  581-7087  
>davis@adenosine.pharm.utah.edu  
>--------------------------------------------------------------

It is available at munnari.oz.au. 

	- Jeff Lee (J.Lee@unsw.edu.au)
From: chris@ph-meter.beckman.uiuc.edu (Chris Gressley)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.appletalk
Subject: CLAIM: Seed Routers are not Nodes
Keywords: routers, nodes
Date: 19 Nov 92 02:54:19 GMT
Article-I.D.: ph-meter.chris.722141659
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana



The manufacturer of our routers has made a very strange claim
concerning their implementation of AppleTalk. I think I can cite the
passages in Inside AppleTalk which show that they are just implementing
this incorrectly, but I could use a direct quote from a Tech Note or
Inside AppleTalk, or an answer from an Apple person, which would show
definitively that they are wrong, or alternatively that I am wrong and
the router folks are correct.

The folks who make our routers make the following two claims:

1. A "router" is not a "node". Nodes and routers are distinct sorts of
things.

2. Since a router is not a node, if a router is a seed router, it need
not dynamically acquire a node ID but can instead have one statically
assigned, since a seed router has statically assigned port descriptor
information.

I am trying to configure the backbone network that the routers share
with the campus backbone so that all of the routers are seed routers.
Because of this, two of my routers are trying to use identical node
IDs, which all in all is a very bad thing.

Am I totally confused, or is it true that:

(a) A router is in fact a node.

(b) Because a router is a node, it should follow the rules for node
number acquisition.

Any authoritative source on this would be greatly appreciated.

chris

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Christine R. Gressley
Research Programmer                      internet: gressley@uiuc.edu
Beckman Institute, UIUC                     phone: (217) 244-6691
--------------------------------------------------------------------