From: radams@BNR.CA (Rodney Adams)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Geneticism
Date: 6 Oct 92 22:02:00 GMT
Reply-To: "Rodney Adams" <RADAMS@BNR.CA>
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Ltd.

In article <01GPLKIOI86Q8WXLE8@ccfvx3.draper.com>, seb@draper.com (Steve Bacher) writes:
[...]
|> Rodney goes on to say:
|> 
|> >I cannot just expect [homosexuals] to react rationally if I told 
|> >them that I thought their sexual orientation was biologically determined
|> >and could possibly have been "treated" if detected at an early stage (perhaps
|> >before birth). 
|> 
|> On the contrary, the recent findings by one scientist suggesting that
|> homosexuality may be determined at birth have bolstered many gays, since
|> this gives gayness legitimacy on a level similar to race or ethnic origin,
|> rather than gays suffering for a "choice" they opted to make.
|> 
|> (This should also make straights feel more comfortable, knowing that
|> it ain't that easy to turn their head around, so to speak.)
|> 
|> But this biological determination in fact makes it difficult if not
|> impossible to "treat", according to this view, quite apart from your
|> premise above.

This is not at all the thread I wished to pursue, but I will add some comments.
First, I dug out the article that had lent some credence to my guess that 
homosexuality was not just a "choice" that people made.  The article is 
called "Why Can't a Man be More Like a Woman... and Vice Versa: Male and female
brains aren't the same.  Does this mean that sexual differences are biologically
determined?" in the October 1990 issue of OMNI.  Granted, this is a popular
(non-technical) magazine, but interested parties could follow up on the research
done by those cited in the article.  Rather than being treatable, the article
suggests that homosexuality could be prevented through early detection, because
the claim is that homosexuality is caused by prenatal exposure to abnormal
levels of hormones; higher levels of androgens would cause homosexuality in
females, while lower levels of androgens would cause homosexuality in males.
If you are interested in pursuing this topic, you might also want to look at
the "Personal Intelligences" chapter in Howard Gardner's Frames of Mind: The 
Theory of Multiple Intelligences.  While Garder says little about sexual 
orientation, he does link such things as one's sense of self, wants, reactions
to others, and interpersonal relations to the frontal lobes of the brain, so
you might want to follow up on the researchers he cites as studying this region,
concentrating particularly on what things could affect the development of the
frontal lobes.

The reason for my original comment to Eric is that, while I can understand
the biologically-determined, sexual orientation of homosexuals, why would a 
bisexual person "choose" to be bisexual?  Or is this, too, biologically
determined?  Unless you personally are homosexual or bisexual, I don't see 
that you can give me the insight I seek.

[...]
|> I actually can understand your point of view, more or less.  I find drinking
|> milk repulsive, and I don't even like to be around the smell of it, but I
|> am hardly about to pass judgment on people who do so.  Unlike the woman
|> who discovered bananas, though, I continue to dislike milk.  Every now and
|> again I try it to see if I've changed my mind, and every time I remember
|> why I don't drink it.
|> 
|>  - seb

I have also heard of a tribe in Africa that has a practice of rubbing 
fresh dung in their hair.  This is also repulsive to me, and something
which I do not wish to try to find out if I have changed my mind about 
it.  However, I do not hate these people; on the contrary, I am rather
curious to find out why in the world these people would do such a thing.

As I said, this is not the thread I intended to pursue.  I was primarily
interested in seeing how Eric thinks we should go about ridding the ills
of our society.  How about it, Eric?

Christianity teaches that homosexual acts are morally wrong.  While I
count myself among the believers in a divinity, I do not excuse my 
religion from questioning, and I have tried to overcome any biases I 
have by trying to understand those who do not "conform" to my own
moral code.  If I have offended others in my endeavors, as seems to be
the case, I apologize.
 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Rodney G. Adams
The opinions expressed above are not necessarily those of my employer.
As if you didn't already know that....
"We are all captives of the pictures in our heads - our belief that the 
world we experience is the world that really exists." - Walter Lippmann