From: hckrus01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Subject: Re: Please help: cancer and pet Yorkie (long)
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 22:12:16 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville

>  One of them looked at it, and in her words,
> pinched it and felt it a lot.  They said that there is an 85% chance that
> it is cancer.  One felt that the dog needed to have the tissue from all
> the breasts removed.  The other felt that that just removing the one lump 
> has a good chance of removing all the cancer and at least prolonging the dogs 
> life.

I'd be very wary of reaching conclusions based on these observations.
There is no way to know whether a tumor is malignant without a biopsy.
Case in point:  in September of '91 my then 10-year old Irish setter 
started limping in his right front foot.  At first I thought it was 
arthritis, but it seemed too acute and was getting progressively worse.
The vet felt a swelling around one of Tristan's toes and took an x-ray,
which showed a growth all around the bone.  The vet felt pretty sure it
be benign, the result of an exotic bacterial infection!  Bu then in 
November of '91, we found a growth the size of a softball in Tristan's
abdomen, and it turned out to be malignant.

That growth was removed and Tristan was given 4-6 months to live, since
hemangio sarcoma is incurable.  Well, a year later he is spunky as ever!

> Now, my mil has some strong feelings on a lot of surgery for anyone (dogs
> or people).  She says that she is morally apposed to "surgering a dog to 
> death".  

Many older dogs bounce back almost immediately from even major surgeries 
(I must again use Tristan as an example, since at age 10 he had 2 major
surgeries in 3 months and did great.)  On the other hand, anesthetizing
an older dog is tricky business, and I would make sure my dog's heart 
was in good shape first.

> My feeling is that
> she has probably left this too late and the cancer has spread.  If it was
> my dog I would remove the lump at this stage anyway.  

If she has the financial resources, I would urge her to do it.  Moreover,
once I saw how big Tristan's tumor was, I was sure the cancer had meta-
sthesized all over the place.  But since he has shown no signs of declining
health, the cancer must not have spread.

>  Her vets are not equiped for
> treating cancer (no chemotherapy was offered).  They said it would cost
> her an additional $200 (in addition to the $300 to remove the tumer) to
> have the tumer tested.  She said, ok what do you do if after you test it
> you find it *is* cancer and they said nothing.  However, she probably wouldn't
> put Fang through chemo. anyway.

Do you live near a university with a vet school?  Does your mother-in-law?
If there is a chemo. regime, they could undoubtedly administer it there,
or perhaps vets at a vet school could instruct Fang's vets on how to do
the therapy.  I was offered the option of putting Tristan thru chemo
-- the only problem was that it wasn't a cure, it would only double his
life expectancy (from 4-8 mos. to 8-12 mos.).  It would
have cost a lot of $ and didn't seem worth it.  It turns out I was right!

On the other had, if it *is* cancer and chemo is considered a cure, I 
would definitely consider it.  The way my vets explained it, in dogs
chemo is not nearly as debilitating as in people, because the drs. are
not going for a cure at any cost.  If the drugs are making the dog ill,
the dosage is decreased.  I know people who's dogs have done well while
undergoing chemo (as opposed to my dad, who threw up every night after
his treatement.)  And if Tristan had gone to Ohio State for his treat-
ment (3 hrs away!), it would have been free because he would have been
part of a study group.  If your mil is near a vet school, she should 
look into it.

This $500 price seems pretty high for the surgery -- I would get a second
opinion!  Each of Tristan's surgeries totalled a little over $300 each,
and that included the biopsy.


Good luck to your mother-in-law and Fang.  Let us know what happens!


Holly Kruse
University of Louisville
and Tristan (Ch. Rendition Wind Voyager) of course
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs