HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tbarnes@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (thomas wrentmore barnes)
Subject: Re: Dancing at Pennsic
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 17:06:22 GMT

Good Gentles All,

Last year at Pennsic a friend of mine was in charge of the dancing in
the barn. (Dancemaster, Dance-o-crat or whatever you want to call it).
Since his voice died, due to the ambient noise from the throng, at about
8:00 p.m. one night, I decided to try to act as his voice.
	I put on my herald's tabard, stood on the dias next to him, let
forth my best series of "oyez'". (1 oyez = I'm making announcement, 2
oyez = please quiet down 3 oyez = I SAID pipe down!  4 oyez = SHUT UP
DAMMIT, I'M TRYING TO GET YOUR ATTENTION AND YOU MIGHT LEARN SOMETHING!!
5 oyez = Lothar goes thermonuclear...) It took me 4 oyez to get the
crowd noise down to the point that I could speak and be heard. Two lines
of instruction later, I had to call 2 oyezs to settle them down again.
In an hour my voice was shot too.
	My point is that if people won't listen to a herald standing
above the crowd in a tabard, they won't listen to anyone. The problem is
that the barn is an acoustically lousy place for heralds, musicians,
P.A. systems or anything else and people have noplace else to go to
dance or socialize where its light at night.
	The barn is already crowed and it won't get any better. Maybe it
is time to consider creating a better place to dance?
	In the meantime, some acoustic tiles and a place for people to
go who don't want to dance, but who do want to rest, talk and be warm
would be cheap and simple solutions. Anybody got any ideas?

In Service,

	Lothar von Katzenellenbogen \|/
                                     0
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: graydon@micor.ocunix.on.ca (Graydon)
Subject: Re: Rapier Combat
Organization: M.B. Cormier INC.
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 15:23:16 EDT

nexus@ylum.cgd.ucar.edu (Jeff Berry) writes:

> In article <920721133517_71431.167_EHJ48-1@CompuServe.COM> 71431.167@compuser
> Or, to bring this back to a unrelated thread, several people have mentioned t
> when they engage in SCA activity their exemplars are Roland, or Arthur and so
> on.  For some of us, they are d'Artagnan, Cyrano de Bergerac and the like.
> 
> Now, it seems from your post (and if I am misinterpreting, please accept my
> apology), that you are opposed to Rapier combat in the Society, why do you
> hold this attitude?
> 
> 
> badger                                      Don Alexandre Lerot d'Avigne
> Jeff Berry                                  Seneschal of Caer Galen, Outlands
>                nexus@ncar.ucar.edu
> NCAR doesn't tell me what to think, and I return the favor.
> "You're a notch and I'm a legend"-------Alice Cooper
> "You're still doing the things that I gave up years ago.."-----Lou Reed
> 

Quick!  Date d'Artagan and Cyrano!

One of my other complaints about SCA fencing; this isn't even
counter-Reformation stuff, it's Age of Reason... (ick!)

Graydon

        Graydon the Curious         /graydon@micor.ocunix.on.ca
  Skraeling Althing, EAldormere, MK / "Nihil est quin obsisti possit"
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: kim@babbage.csus.edu (Kim Conway)
Subject: Events happening in Southern California?
Organization: California State University, Sacramento
Distribution: ca
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 18:29:46 GMT

I am planning to be in Southern California at the end of August, and was
wondering if there were any local events going on then. If you have any
information it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Tara, The West
From: smelvin@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (The Black Bard  )
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Finding Persons and Songs
Date: 25 Jul 92 22:15:41 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego

Greetings good Gentles of the Rialto, 
	I am searching for the e-mail address (or any other form of
contact) for the following persons:  Jeshua (once of the College of
St Artemas, Caid) and Lord Janos Throngcleaver (of Trimaris)  I'm
actually trying to get the words to Jeshua's "Little Knightses" and
the tune to "Troubadour's Challenge" and I think those people could
help.  I'm also trying to find the tune and words to "I hate Little
Fire Lizards".  If anyone can help I'd be most appreciative.
Thanks and have a fine, fair day...
Rathflaed
-- 
Rathflaed DeToutNoir              Bards make the best lays!!   
The Black Bard of Meridies         -Me 
mka: Stephen R Melvin
From: jlewis@astro.as.arizona.edu (Jeff Lewis)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Novice seeks enlightenment
Date: 21 Jul 92 18:40:35 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson, AZ


After reading the SCA Faq I find my interest in the
SCA has once more been heightened.  
I seek information on local groups (TUCSON)..
research assistance in choosing a name...and general
guidance.

To all those who reply, thank you in advance.

jlewis@astro.as.arizona.edu is
Jeffrey L. Lewis (The bewildered)

.
From: Joe.Bethancourt@f166.n114.z1.fidonet.org (Joe Bethancourt)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Morris Dance info needed
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1992 01:34:00 -0500

Gentles:

My lady wife, Mistress Cherie Ruadh MhicRath, recently got seriously 
interested in Morris Dancing after a 6 week session with Horn Dance,
and now is helping to organize a troupe here in Phoenix.

However, she needs references, lesson materials, ANYTHING that is out
there on the subject. If you have any info on where such can be obtained,
please respond!

She needs book titles, where they can be purchased, how much...and so
forth. Any videos available would be nice too.

-From the Aten Gulag Archepelago: (forty days and counting....)

                                                -Ioseph of Locksley
                                 -Grumpy Husband of a Morris Dancer

... CAT: a small, furry beast resembling a meatloaf.
From: carl@silver.lcs.mit.edu (Carl J.M. Alexander)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Insurance
Date: 23 Jul 92 14:21:38 GMT
Article-I.D.: mintaka.1992Jul23.142138.29231
Organization: Organization???

Rhys ap Bledri writes:
 
>We're planning on holding an event in the near future (the First Revolt in
>Ealdormere), and the site owner wants a bit of info on our insurance - the
>Insurance Company's name, and the amount of coverage... He doesn't require a
>certificate  of insurance, so if someone can give me the info, it'd be
>appreciated.
 
I suspect that this is an example of the sort of thing Hilary was worried 
about when she wrote her overstated article about the net in TI 103. 
Even if someone on the Rialto sends you that information, what assurance 
(legally speaking) do you have that the information is correct?  There 
are channels for this sort of thing; those channels exist in part to 
keep the Society's ass legally covered.  The way to get this information 
is to ask your seneschal; if s/he doesn't know, the question goes up 
the line.  This is, after all, a normal part of the day-to-day business 
of the Society.
 
Alexander of Kiev                       Carolingia, East

Carl Alexander                          Harvard Square, Cambridge, Mass.
carl@silver.lcs.mit.edu 
From: Tim@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Tim)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Why not pentacles:
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1992 09:15:46

 TN> Ah, the Middle Ages "not as they were, but as they should have been."  You
 TN> know, the ones where Julian the Apostate extirpated Christianity and all
 TN> the crowned heads of Europe were devout worshippers of the mother-goddess.
 TN> _Those_ Middle Ages, the ones which have no basis in history...

 [No, no, the ones where Charles Martel got beat and civilization came to
 France 6 centuries early...]

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: twinkie names
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 08:42:49

     Lord Godfrey de Shipbrook wrote:

 JL> >      Can you quote some sources for this statement, please?
 JL> > 
 JL> >  Certainly. The term "horde" comes through Polish from the Turkish 
 JL> >  word for "camp" (ordu). [Oxford English Dictionary] I know of two 
 JL> >  Hordes in period: the Golden Horde of the Kipchaks, and the much 
 JL> >  later White Horde of the Krim Tatars. [Shepherd's Historical Atlas]
 JL> >  Do you know of any others?

 JL> Err...  Begging your pardon, but isn't *gold* a metal?

 Yes, but it's obviously used here in connection with its tinctural, rather
 than metallurgical, application. "Golden" can mean either "gold-colored" or
 "made of gold"; when one has a "Golden horde" and a "White horde", the
 obviously implication is that "gold-colored" is intended. "Iron" (the form
 submitted in the SCA household name) is not (so far as I am aware) ever
 used to mean "iron-colored" but rather "made of iron".

 I hope that makes things clearer.

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 11:51:01 -0400 
From: Rebecca Roolf <rr3b+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Pennsic weather update

On 30-Jul-92 in Pennsic weather update       
user Monica Cellio@cs.cmu.edu (Ellisif) writes:
>It's been cooler than normal and very rainy here in Pittsburgh.  We never
>hit the normal July temperatures in the 90s.  (Well, maybe once.)  In the
>last two weeks we've had rain nearly every day -- though not steadily.

Dia daiobh! (Greetings!)

As a Debatable Lands (Pittsburgh) citizen myself, I have been watching
the weather with an eye toward Pennsic.  Yes, it has been very rainy! 
Generally we have been getting a thunderstorm every day, which doesn't
last for long, but I don't think the ground gets a chance to dry out.

This will be my third Pennsic, but the other two were in more typical
weather: hot, usually dry, with the *occasional* (rather than daily)
thunderstorm.  So, my question is, what will conditions be like at
Pennsic if it's wet and rainy?  I am not alarmed, I just want to be
prepared. (a good policy, I believe)  I am used to camping in the rain,
but the war has conditions beyond normal camping.

It will be muddy, I know; wet, I know; bring extra tent tarps, I know. 
Probably plan to dig trenches around the tents, too.  (These are times I
wish I could bring my parent's tent-trailer... amazing how those 2 feet
off the ground in a box make a difference!)  

But how swampy do the woods get?  I am camping single-tent, so I plan to
try for high ground, somewhere.  For those camping on low ground, what
preparations could they make?

Any suggestions for period, period-looking, or semi-period raingear? 
For the occasional shower, I just wear my cloak, but it does soak
through after a while.  I was thinking of seeing if I could find a small
Army-type canvas tarp to wear like an Irish brat (four-cornered cloak). 
Or atleast something other than my modern bright orange plastic poncho!

I am also planning to bring my wool garb (wool still keeps you warm when
it's wet-- unlike cotton).  Today it was 70 F at about 10 a.m.... cool
enough that you can appreciate some warmth, if it's raining, especially.
 Long underwear also strikes me as a good idea, to wear under cotton
garb, if necessary.  This is one time I am glad I have an Irish /
Scottish persona who wears a lot of wool!

Any other suggestions for wet weather preparations / hints would be
appreciated.

Bro/nach


_______________________________________________________________________________
                                        ,
Becka Roolf, Research Associate       Bronach na Darach
College of Fine Arts, SFCI            lover of Celtic music, art, culture, etc.
ITeN Project (Interactive Anc. Egypt)           ,           ,   ,   ,          
Carnegie Mellon University            Is mise Bronach, ach nil me bronach.
Pittsburgh, PA                        Ta Gaeilge beag agam, ach me ag foghlaim!
From: Suze.Hammond@f56.n105.z1.therose.pdx.com (Suze Hammond)
Sender: postmaster@therose.pdx.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Why not pentacles:
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 22:57:00 -0700

CJ>  From: carl@silver.lcs.mit.edu (Carl J.M. Alexander)
CJ>  Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
CJ>
CJ>  > The  Society for Creative Anarchism or S.C.A.  sponsors periodic
CJ>  "Ren-
CJ>  > aissance  Fairs"   which present the milder and  attactive  aspects
CJ>   of
CJ>  > wicce-craft to the public.   These fairs are used to recruit people
CJ>  for
CJ>  > local covens.
CJ>  > ....
CJ>  > (Compilation of notes and material received at the I.P.T.M. Cults,
CJ>  > Sects, and Deviant Movements Seminar, Jacksonville, Florida, in
CJ>  > March, 1986.  Lt. L. M. Jones, Boise Police Department.)

I don't see any open reference to satanism here. I do think a suit might be 
threatened, especially since it can readily be proved that the SCA is *not* 
the sponsor of the Renn Faire movement, but their guest betimes. In any 
case, if the BoD allows this fruitcake cop to go unchallenged it will be 
tantamount to *admitting* we are exactly what he says, in the eyes of many 
law-enforcement agencies. We especially need to make it crystal clear that 
we don't recruit anybody for anything except the SCA itself, and that many 
of us are Christians, Jews, or other mainstream religions.

If there is an organized wiccan body, they too ought to consider some sort 
of legal action, perhaps citing the Constitution's provision for freedom of 
religion as well as libel.

Moreach NicMaolain
trifid@agora.rain.com
From: GEN0036@Husky1.StMarys.Ca (Brynjolfr)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Basic Courtesy
Date: 25 Jul 92 13:38:28 GMT
Organization: St. Mary's University, Halifax, N.S., Canada
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.12.SMU

Nicholas writes in response to my posting:

> Brynjolfr Myrkjartanarson (GILBERT RICHARD) writes:
> 
> >A good handbook I've found for use of smilies... insert them where you'd
> >normally laugh in a normal conversation. 
> 
> I disagree.  I believe the use of "smilies" stems from a decline
> in the American educational system, to the extent that many people
> can no longer read well enough to recognize humor in the written
> word or write well enough to convey without the use of special
> punctuation.  I, for one, refuse to pander to subliteracy.  This
> problem is, I believe, especially prevalent on the Internet, since
> UNIX seems to inflict a peculiar form of brain damage even on otherwise
> intelligent people, making them completely unable to recognize even the
> most blatant attempts at humor.  It is my medical opinion, however, that
> providing these people with a sufficient number of smiley-faces to
> relieve their suffering and discomfort can only result in smiley-face
> dependency and more prolonged disability.
> 
> -- Nicholas van Leyden

Well... From what I've seen of the Internet, it's relatively free of smily
disorders. Maybe I live in a smily-intensive area, but most of the local
BBS's around here are far worse... People using smilies as a sort of
cover... "I'm not serious... ever" There's one particular user who appends
:-) :-) to the end of *every* message she leaves... (and her you can't
blame on the American educational system, as she's a Canadian like me)

I think it's mostly because net postings, unlike most ordinary writing, are
something like chatting around. IE you're not writing letters or novels,
you're behaving more like a bunch of people chatting to each other, without
the benefit of face to face contact, so you substitute with smilies. This
theory seems to be born out by the fact that smilies are way more common in
interactive chat programs like TALK...

-Brynjolfr Myrkjartanarson, Compaignie Mercurie, Seashire, Ruantallan, East

      The unwise man thinks he will live for ever if he shuns fight, but
      Old age gives him no peace though spears may shun him. - The Havamal

          The Net: gen0036@husky1.stmarys.ca, gen0036@stmarys.bitnet
From: Leonard.Erickson@f56.n105.z1.therose.pdx.com (Leonard Erickson)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: "Once upon a Weekend" demo tape
Date: 25 Jul 92 13:53:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: therose.712156524.F00001

In a message to Leonard Erickson <07-25-92 11:09> Suze Hammond wrote:

SH>  LE>  In a message to Nancy Lebovitz <07-24-92 13:17> Suze Hammond
SH>  wrote:
SH>  LE>
SH>  LE>  SH>  NL>  From: nancy@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Nancy Lebovitz)
SH>  LE>  SH>  NL>  The Wall Street Journal always uses drawings rather
SH>  LE>  SH>  NL>  than photos
SH>
SH>  LE>  SH>  Why? Does anyone know?
SH>  LE>
SH>  LE>  Just a guess, but drawings do *not* have to be "screened" to
SH>  LE>  create "halftoned" images before printing. This saves both time
SH>  LE>  *and* money.
SH>
SH>  Yes, I hadn't thought about that...
SH>
SH>  Which means that my suggestion that we submit photos of illuminations
SH>  of our royalty and our sport should include half-toning, whenever we
SH>  can afford it.

If it's in color, you'd need to do a 3 or 4 color seperation as well 
(depending on which they use). And that *will* be expensive.

SH>  If you want somebody to use *your* stuff, instead of *their* stuff,
SH>  it helps to make your the easiest to use!  :-)

I think we'd be better off with *good* "camera ready" artwork. We can likely 
get such accepted for it's *novelty* value. ("Hey! This'll look neat..." is 
a reaction that even hardened editors can have) 
 
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: uubrian@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (Brian Bentz)
Subject: buying swords
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
Date: 27 Jul 1992 14:51 EST  

	Can anyone recommend a good place to buy swords?  Mail order
would probably be the best option, since I don't think there are such
places neatr Ft. Wayne, IN or Terre Haute, IN.  Anywhere around Cleveland
maybe?  Any help would be appreciated.  If this is a FAQ, please Email
me rather than post it, I'd rather not bore anybody.  Thanks!

Brian
From: Leonard.Erickson@f56.n105.z1.therose.pdx.com (Leonard Erickson)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: zip codification of the SCA
Date: 23 Jul 92 02:11:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: therose.711843698.F00005

In a message to All <07-20-92 20:36> Beth Appleton wrote:

BA>  From: Beth.Appleton@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Beth Appleton)
BA>  Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
BA>
BA>  Umm, Arval....
BA>    You said...
BA>   JM> zip-code lines.  A city boundary is an obvious alternative.  If
BA>  your
BA>     With the exception of very small "island" cities, zip codes
BA>  usually
BA>   change at the city boundary also.  I'd have to look at a map, but
BA>   they may also change at "island" boundaries also.  About the only
BA>   exception I can think of are very, very small rural towns or
BA>  villages.

You obvious don't live where several medium to large cities and towns have 
been spreadfing towards each other. We have places where they touch and 
places where they are seperated buy moderate amounts of "unicorporated 
county". But all of it pretty solidly built up as suburbs. The zip code 
lines follow major streets and are moderately rectilinear. The city limits 
*aren't*.

In these wonderful modern times it is possible for the same dwelling to be 
in one city legally, another according to the Postal Service, and possibly a 
third according to the telephone company! 
 
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Morris Dance info needed
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 01:21:18

Ioseph (grumpy about who-knows-what-now) wrote...

>Gentles:
>                                                                          
>My lady wife, Mistress Cherie Ruadh MhicRath, recently got seriously      
>interested in Morris Dancing after a 6 week session with Horn Dance,      
>and now is helping to organize a troupe here in Phoenix.                  
>                                                                          
>However, she needs references, lesson materials, ANYTHING that is out     
>there on the subject. If you have any info on where such can be obtained, 
>please respond!                                                           

I would also be interested in information about Morris dancing.
Historical information, in paticular, since I have no knowledge of
it's history.

Stephen of the Grove
Steppes/Ansteorra        FIDO 1:124/4229
___
 X MegaMail 2.10 #0:CRUSADE CRUSADE CRUSADE!!!!

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
From: Leonard.Erickson@f56.n105.z1.therose.pdx.com (Leonard Erickson)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Basic Courtesy
Date: 24 Jul 92 23:51:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: therose.712101755.F00002

In a message to All <07-24-92 06:14> Terry Nutter wrote:

TN>  From: jtn@nutter.cs.vt.edu (Terry Nutter)

TN>  As to being considerate: that seems _to me_ to mean taking into
TN>  account the effect of what you say or do, and that effects on
TN>  people matter.  But it is possible to consider, to recognize
TN>  bruising effect, to recognize that people matter, _and to go ahead
TN>  anyhow on principled grounds_.  Under _my_ definition, that's not
TN>  inconsiderate.  To show inconsiderateness, you would have to show
TN>  that there was no principled reason that outweighed the projected
TN>  effect.  This seems not to be true under Bertram's view of
TN>  considerateness, or that of many others.

I must strongly disagree! If you feel that you must go ahead with a 
statement that may "bruise" someone, then it behooves you to *minimize* that 
bruising. The only exception *I* would recognize is if you are responding to 
deliberately "bruising" statement.

I have had the misfortune of having to listen to people who feel justified 
to say hurtful things about others (especially *subtly* hurtful) because 
they were convinced that they were "right" and the other person was "wrong".

I submit that *no one* is competent to make that sort of judgement in all 
cases. And that the odds are quite good that when you feel the most certain 
your judegement is the most suspect.

Therefore it behooves us to *not* assume that our "principles" justify 
saying *anything* hurtful. It's one thing to state facts, it's quite another 
to state opinions.

Even if the filk is "offensive" to many here, that does *not* justify a 
response belittles the poster. A polite comment letting him know that it is 
not considered appropriate is one thing, "Thanks, this will make a great 
example of why filks don't belong here" is not.

To summarize, you may speak of principles and the like all that you wish, 
but the end does not justify the means. 
 
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: kenm@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca (...Jose)
Subject: Pennsic Masked Ball
Organization: Department of Computer Science, McMaster University
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 14:21:07 GMT

Greetings, fellow  travellers or the Rialto, from Lord Cinaed de Moravia....

	A recent discussion of the Pennsic masked ball brought up a 
question which none present could even begin to answer: when did masked
balls become common in Europe?  Are they in any way medieval, or are they
strictly a post-renaissance affair?

	Any information appreciated....

  
					...Cinaed
 

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
".sig quotes are silly"|Kenneth C. Moyle          kenm@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca 
 - Kenneth C. Moyle    |Department of Biochemistry     MOYLEK@MCMASTER.BITNET 
                       |McMaster University       ...!uunet!mnetor!maccs!kenm 
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: carl@silver.lcs.mit.edu (Carl J.M. Alexander)
Subject: Re: Basic Courtesy
Organization:  Organization??? 
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 18:21:52 GMT

In article <712389702.F00004@ocitor.fidonet> Stephen.Whitis@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Stephen Whitis) writes:
>
>I think instigating a flame war qualifies as a cheap shot.
>
And what, praytell, does pumping gasolene into a flame war constitute?
 
I have already twice attempted to raise the voice of moderation in 
this thread.  I now beg you, good gentles all, to desist.  I had, 
until the flood of messages today, begun to admire Stephen for his 
restraint in staying out of this increasingly inflammitory thread: 
I humbly suggest that attempts to get in the last word will not 
lead to any good for anyone.
 
So again, please, can we not drop this thread?
 
Sincerely,
 
Alexander of Kiev                       Carolingia, East

Carl Alexander                          Harvard Square, Cambridge, Mass.
carl@silver.lcs.mit.edu 


Newsgroups: rec.org.sca