HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ae766@yfn.ysu.edu (David Sanders)
Subject: Re: Heraldic questions...
Organization: Youngstown State University/Youngstown Free-Net
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 17:13:05 GMT


Greetings to all, from Vajk!

Lost the signature on this one, but someone said:

   > Monarchies that were not elective: England, Scotland, France,
   > Castile, Leon, Aragon, Navarre, Portugal, Naples/Sicily, Bohemia,
   > Hungary. (Bohemia was technically elective but in practice
    > Hereditary except when a line died out .  All medieval
   > monarchies started out elective but had become effectively
   > hereditary before the 11th century, which is well before
   > what most people in the SCA attempt to emulate).

Hey, which side are you on here? If any.

First, Hungary elected kings throughout much of their history.
It is true that in most cases there was no question about a 
successor, but in these cases there was still election, if only
by acclamation.  There may have been a few exceptions to this.
There were even times when Hungary had no king, not because
there was no inheritor, but because there was no concensus.  Also,
there were many times, over a period of about 200 years, when rival
kings reigned, sometimes up to three at a time.

The fact that Bohemia was technically elective makes me want
to put it in that cgroup.  The fact that they elected the obvious
choice should be no bar to the fact that it was still elective.

There may be more of us out here who emulate the earlier times 
than you think!  I will grant that the majority are later
personas, but earlier personas exist in rather high numbers.
(Personal observation).

If we make a third group which includes notn-monarchies, as
your example of the territories of Florence and the Medici (oops,
that should be singular "territory"), what percentage of the
people of medieval and renaissance Europe were ruled by kings
who were not elective?  In other words, were kings/queens who
inherited their thrones really in a majority of the rulers?
This is different than asking if more monarchs were elected or
not elected, as it includes areas not under a monarchy.

I don't know the answers to the questions posed in the last
paragraph, but I think we should check them out before 
asserting that non-elected monarchs were the norm for leaders
in our period.

Vajk
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: nusbache@epas.utoronto.ca (Aryk Nusbacher)
Subject: Re: antipathy to fencing
Organization: University of Toronto - Office of the Provost
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 19:28:04 GMT

In article <1993Jan11.180437.27297@progress.com> schuldy@progress.COM (Mark Schuldenfrei) writes:

>Thank you!  Those manuals that [Steve Hick] described, do they
>portray rapier style duelling and swordfighting, or a martial art more like
>the heavy list style that we do?

More like "heavy list" stuff, on the whole...

>And, if they do describe tournament style martial arts, how well does our
>recreation compare to them?

The two are not notably close in style and execution ... on paper.
It is, however, a difficult call to make.  There are, for instance,
people who fight in the SCA in styles that resemble the style of the
Tower fechtbuch.  On the whole, however, the two are quite different,
especially as regards sword blocking techniques.

Caveat:  this off-the-cuff analysis is an off-the-cuff analysis based
on casual reading of the new Tower fechtbuch translation still in progress.

>The argument that I'm making, should be clear.
>I'm not arguing that our fencing is a superlative simulation of period
>rapier dueling.  What I would argue is that our heavy list fighting is
>no better.

Probably true.

On the other hand, heavy-weapons helmets frequently look mediaeval.
Fencing masks never do.


>(I might further make the argument that given the level of documentation,
>our rapier dueling may turn out to be more authenticable, and eventually
>more authentic, but I haven't done enough reading, thinking or talking
>with people to be sure.)

I would be very surprised if that were the case, so long as modern
swords are used.

Aryk Nusbacher

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: UCCXDEM <UCCXDEM@MVS.UCC.OKSTATE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Need local contact info
Organization: Oklahoma State University Computer Center, Stillwater OK
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 17:38:00 GMT

>Path: osuunx.ucc.okstate.edu!constellation!convex!convex!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!news.cs.indiana.edu!arizona.edu!pimacc.pima.edu!mwilcynski
>Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
>Subject: Need local contact info
>Message-ID: <1993Jan5.090415.7178@pimacc.pima.edu>
>From: mwilcynski@pimacc.pima.edu (Mark)
>Date: 5 Jan 93 09:04:15 -0700
>Lines: 14
>
>
>I have a nephew that was recently stationed at Ft. Lewis in Laughton, Ok.
>He spotted some signs in the area indicating that the SCA was active
>near there and needs some contact names & farspeaker numbers in the area.
>
>I'm hope someone that has such info can e-mail it to me sometime this week.
>
>Many thanks in advance.
>
>                                  ............................................
>Lord Mark Lightburn               :  Mark Wilcynski                          :
>     Barony of Tir Ysgithr        :..........................................:
>          Principality of the Sun :  MWILCYNSKI%PimaCC.Pima.edu@Arizona.edu  :
>               Atenveldt          :..........................................:
>
To Lord Mark,
Greetings from H.L. Marke.

Is your nephew stationed at Ft. Sill in Lawton, Ok ? If he is send me
an email note and send the senechal's phone and address back to you.
                                       Have a joyous new year,
                                       Marke von Mainz
                                       Mooneschadowe, Ansteorra
David Mann
uccxdem.mvs.ucc.okstate.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: blaxson@shade.UWaterloo.ca (Brian A.Laxson)
Subject: Brian to Skraeling
Reply-To: balaxson@systems.watstar.uwaterloo.ca
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 13:30:39 GMT

Greets those of Skraeiling Althing.

This post is just to help you find/email/post me once you figure out how  
to get on to rec.org.sca, course if your already here it shouldn't be much  
harder.....


Good Luck, Lovely Ladies and Noble Lords

Brian Goodheart, <sigh> once of Skraeling althing, <grin> now in Burnyog  
Tywnnog!!!
From: corun@access.digex.com (Corun MacAnndra)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: antipathy to fencing
Date: 12 Jan 1993 14:40:22 GMT
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: access.digex.com

Greetings unto the Rialto.

Has anyone seen a video entitled _The Blow by Blow Guide to Swordfighting
in the Rennaissance Style_? The presenter is Mike Loades, and he is billed
as a combat master at several drama schools in London. The ad I saw claims
to teach one to fight with rapier and cloak, target and buckler (target has
me a bit confused and I can't help but wonder if targe was meant instead).
In my area there is a large following of fencers recreating the Italian
Rennaissance style, and I am considering dusting off the masque and foil.
This video sounds good, but I'd like to hear a review of it from fencers
before spending the money.

As an aside, for those interested in increasing their libraries, _Sword
and Masque_ by Julius Palffy-Alpar is a rather good book on fencing. It
has a section devoted to theatrical fencing, and this covers some of the
techniques one would not encounter in a standard modern fencing text, these
usually discussing formal competition fencing, that could be applicable to
SCA/Rennaissance fencing.

My thanks in advance for any information forthcoming on the video.

In service,
Corun

-- 
===========================================================================
    Corun MacAnndra    |
  Dark Horde by birth  |	Avid readers make novel lovers.
    Moritu by choice   |
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: schuldy@progress.COM (Mark Schuldenfrei)
Subject: Re: Period calendar; Nonfighter kings; Drachenwald ideas
Organization: Progress Software Corp.
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 22:30:11 GMT

William de Corbie talks about Themed events.
  But Justin is right: making the holding of any events save Crown
  Tourney mandatory, is a bad idea. Nevertheless, I believe that
  we need some provisions for the conduct of theme events, stating
  clearly that they are allowed -- especially if "standard SCA
  reality" shall be temporarily suspended. Oh, details...

Is it really necessary, William?  If you hold them, and they are
good, people will do their best to come matched to the theme.  The
rest (those who cannot match the theme), will still come, and be
educated, and have a good time.  Few folks would be so rude as to
deliberately come to the event out of theme, just for spite.

I've attended a few theme events, both in Trimaris and in the
East.  People play along, as best they can, and the events work
well.  Do you need to modify the rules, to reject those that
don't fit the dress code?  There's a downside to that too, you
know.

	Tibor
--
Mark Schuldenfrei (schuldy@progress.com)
[I'm just showin' you my opinions: this ain't a gift]
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: STUMILBY@EKU.BITNET ("And the sand shifts back into the sea...I am gone")
Subject: 1st Event For An Enthusiastic Teen
Organization: The Internet
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 16:44:24 GMT




Can anyone help me with a friend of mine   a 16 year old
who wants to be a fighter and has never met anyone from the SCA


Situation: He lives 35 miles from the nearest person who has heard of the
           SCA ...I was his DM(Dungeon Master) for 2 years.  Because of me
           he has transfered his enthusiam to the sca..reading...researching
           and PLANNING.  Just turned 16 and has his first car he now has
           the ability to travel and meet the people he has only heard about...
           dreamed about.
Problem:   An event..it was to be his first event..comes up feb. the 6th here
           near my college in Lexington.  While I have never been to many events
              only 3 before and never a feast..I have many friends who keeps me
           from disasters...
                we have been planning to go for over 9 months....I will sew him
           a simple tunic and pants...and borrow a belt and feastware..His own
           name Eric will be ok for his first event since he has not yet chosen.

Complication::::: My Only Brothers Wedding Was Announced At Christmas---FEB 6!!!
              I may actually make it to the latter part of the fest and dancing.
   ...
Now I will need help to explain the him how to conduct himself during the event
           when I will not be there...what certain terms mean...I was hoping we
           could play it by ear....us together as each situation arose.

If anyone could help me help Eric...a 16 year old (with a Very High IQ) whos
           Biggest dreaM IS TO BE A FIGHTE
                         (OOOPS) is to be a fighter to find an apprenticship
           and go to a college nearer to the SCA.. I would appreciate it...

Morana Revel
Eku@Stumilby

          Things that Eric is Enthusiastic about he will do anything and go
          anywhere to get...whithin 6 months of me teaching his to ride and to
          break horses he had bought a never touched 9 month old . broke her
          and now teached riding and breaking in our county...
1022 E. Irvine Rd #5
Richmond ky 40475

 Erics Address is
Eric Slayton
J.E.Jones Rd
Magnolia Ky 42757


Thanx..........................................Forever in the Dream.............
From: Dave.Aronson@p11.f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Dave Aronson)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Tadhg's Preferred Geographic Area
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 21:24:54 -0500

bq434@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael A. Chance) writeth:

 MAC> Excluded are Baveria, Franconia, Westphalia, Swabia, Saxony, the north
 MAC> German heath, Brandenburg, Thuringia, Pomerania, Silesia, Bohemia,
 MAC> Moravia, Austria, Hungary, Poland, Lithuania, Switzerland, Italy, and
 MAC> all points east.

...now leaving on Track 29.  Alllll aBOARD!

Sorry.  Couldn't help myself....  B->

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman)
Subject: Awards on the Rialto
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1993 22:17:14 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

Greetings from Arval!  

It is my pleasure to announce that three of our number have been recognized
by the Eastern Crown for their service and achievements.  At Twelfth Night,
the Crown elevated Master Dofinn-Hallr Morrisson to the Laurel (Dof appears
most often as a shaduw lurking behind his lady, Thora Sharptooth), elevated
Master Given Kilkenny to the Pelican (Gavin has not posted recently, but
has been on and off the Rialto for years), and admitted Lady Alison
MacDermot to the Order of the Silver Crescent (EK service award).

If I've forgotten to mention other awards given to Rialtini, I apologize.

===========================================================================
Arval Benicoeur                                       mittle@watson.ibm.com
From: bloodthorn@sloth.equinox.gen.nz (Jennifer Geard)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Eulogy for Axel Bandit 
Distribution: world
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 05:36:21 GMT
Organization: Lethargy Inc.

  > Most authenticists cut the kid in a ratty t-tunic and jeans
  > some slack, as long as the kid seems to be playing their game. 

Yup.  But see below...

  > It's the people who spend a lot of time and effort to make something 
  > non-authentic that burns the authenticists up and evoke the most
  > unpleasant response. 

In my experience it's the people who put others down for lack of authenticity 
about something that is actually documentable period practice who evoke the 
*snidest* response.  Especially when they do it to newcomers who take their 
word on it and perpetuate the myths.

Pagan le Chaunster
________________________________________________________________________
Jennifer Geard                         bloodthorn@sloth.equinox.gen.nz
Christchurch, New Zealand
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Subject: Re: Midrealm Crwon Tourney Customs
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 21:05:36 GMT


Gwenllian Cwmystwyth writes:
 LL> Hmmm As far as I know, the West has done just fine 
 LL> at surviving without 
 LL> massive amounts of qualifications that people have 
 LL> to meet to be King. 
 LL> The biggy is "..be acceptable to the Crown"..  
 With all due respects, I believe the West has had large Crown tourneys 
 for long enough that that in itself is a filter.  The more rounds a 
 person has to fight through, the lower the chance gets that the 
 "hot stick" without sufficient SCA experience will make it all the way. 
 A few years back, Ansteorra was scraping to get a 16 man list for 
 Crown Tourney. 

Among those I know, that, and the generally-felt-to-be-high quality of
our top fighters are major reasons.  There is (a somewhat unfortunate)
attitude about the open list--so open that folks who reside in other
kingdoms are permitted to fight in it--of "just *try* and win here!"

The sentiment is that to survive a Western Crown Lists is *very*
unlikely for anyone who hasn't been around *here* for a while.

In any case--fighting though a double-elim tourney of 95 to 100+
fighters in probably a bit daunting in it's own right.

I should note that the Western Crown Lists have been pretty tough for
a long time.  It is sobering to hear the hushed wispers of awe
surrounding Duke Paul of Bellatrix when you remember him as a newcomer
to the SCA.  Even though he had been actively pursuing various martial
arts for some years prior to joining the Society--a background *very*
unlike any ohter fighter in the area at the time--it still took him a
year of solid work before winning Crown.  

In short, while a rank beginner might have stood a chance of winning
20 years ago, I don't think it is credible that one--no matter how
talented--has a real chance of doing so now.

	--Hal

        Hal Ravn, West Kingdom
        Wilson H. Heydt, Jr.,  Albany, CA 94706,  510/524-8321 (home)

Nothing in this missive constitutes an act or opinion of the Lord High
Constable of the Kingdom of the West unless otherwise explicitly stated.
-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |            You!
510-823-5447                 |    Out of the Gene Pool!
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |
From: lindal@goddess.asd.sgi.com (Linda Levy)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Pennsic
Date: 8 Jan 93 16:56:32 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.

We have several people down in Lochac that need info ASAP on Pennsic. Can
someone send them info directly, maybe just a contact person? (autocrats
name & address?)
 Send to janelle@jna.com.au (Janella Heron)
thanks

linda of the lakelands
lindal@asd.sgi.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: jww@evolving.com (John W. Woolley)
Subject: Re: Heraldic questions...
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1993 22:42:40 GMT
Organization: Evolving Systems, Inc.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

Tim@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Tim) writes:
:  The African provinces of the Roman Empire produced, among other things,
:  Augustine and Pelagius

Pelagius was British.

Yours in pedantry,
-- 
Fr. John Woolley (jww@evolving.com); vastly enthusiastic about Augustine,
Austen, babies, Bach, backgammon, baseball, beer, the Bible, Botticelli, Burke,
Chesterton, Dante, Dixieland, hardboiled, Hitchcock, Dr Johnson, Latin, Mozart,
Shakespeare/de Vere, St Teresa, Tolkien, Trollope, Fats Waller, and Washington
From: acsrdl@UMASSD.EDU
Subject: A Call For Information
Reply-To: acsrdl@UMASSD.EDU
Organization: UMASS DARTMOUTH, NO. DARTMOUTH, MA.
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 04:53:45 GMT

Greetings, good gentles.

	If anyone reading this knows anyone associated with the Shire of
River Keep (mundanely in Quincy, IL) would you please drop me a note at
acsrdl@umassd.edu?  Thanks much.

--Otter --<<<<<<

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: atterlep@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Cardinal Ximenez)
Subject: Re: SCA Upgrade?
Organization: National Association for the Disorganized
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 16:33:13 GMT

ds4p+@andrew.cmu.edu (David Schroeder) writes:

>        Those who want the SCA to have more "period" customs
>        should be highly encouraged to form related organizations
>        with more circumscribed temporal and geographical scope,
>        such as Crusader kingdoms, Bronze Age clans, or royal 
>        companies of pikemen.  The SCA would be glad to "play"
>        with you, since your group would certainly meet the
>        SCA's fairly minimal participation requirements, and
>        you could have get-togethers of your own to enjoy 
>        re-creating your chosen time and place in history.

>        This doesn't mean "if you don't like what we're doing
>        pack up your marbles and go home..."  It _does_ mean
>        that those valuing authenticity of _customs_ should
>        do so in a context where that's practical, which is
>        (reality check here, folks) NOT the SCA, since the
>        SCA has _all_ of pre-1601 to draw from.

  I don't think that people have to get outside the SCA to have authentic 
customs.  Households would be the perfect mechanism for allowing groups of 
people to gather and play in their own framework.  If the people are going to
be SCA members anyway there's no reason for them to start their own
organization; they can form a household and get together as Bronze Agers or
whatever.
  I will add that groups should be allowed to have "limited period" events 
(where only Normans, or Vikings, or whatever, are allowed in.)  Frankly, I 
don't see that this will affect the SCA that much because of the practical 
limitations of holding a limited event.  Since most people are going to have to
go through a lot of effort to show up, the attendance is going to be quite 
small.  No group is going to take its big event and turn it into a 13th C.
only affair, because it will cripple them financially.  These will be 
"specialty events" for people interested in that period (much like the events
for costuming, heraldry, armoring, etc. that are around now.)  A group that 
doesn't try to be inclusive isn't going to have people come to their events.
  Of course, there will still be a place for "theme" events that allow 
everyone.  These events will help educate people about a period.  Events that
center around 10th C. Northumbria or 14th C. France but allow everyone will
be able to teach people something about the period.
  I think that there's room for everybody in the Society--even those people
who don't want to make room for everybody.

		Alan Fairfax Aluricson, Fenris Herald
		Canton of the Riding of Hawkland Moor
		Barony of Northwoods, Midrealm
		atterlep@vela.acs.oakland.edu		**Magnitudo Vocis**


Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: baldy@fred.nas.nasa.gov (Robert R. Baldassano)
Subject: bravo
Followup-To: re: recreating the middle ages
Organization: NAS Program, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 93 23:38:23 GMT

I give a bravo to David Tallan for his portayasl of what I have felt since the
first time I stepped into these current middle ages.

This is "The Current Middle Ages" NOT the middle ages.
we don't have to be the "Society for Compulsive authenticity" 
lets be "Creative" and enjoy the fun wee can have on and off the battlefield.


That's what I got into the SCA for not anything about "it isn't the way King
Henry did it".


Please, lets keep our Own dreams alive.  and let others keep theirs as well.


I think this can be done best by dreaming of the SCA as your own thoughts would
have it, but letting it be to other people what they want, need or desire.







I hope this gets to releive some of the tension I have felt on the net (even
though I have only been on since Friday) it is rather a lot of tension you know.




- to your own dreams and their fruitful awakenings...




Robert Baldassano

baldy@eagle.nas.nasa.gov

.
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: cjp@ms.uky.edu (Carl Parlagreco)
Subject: Re: 1st Event For An Enthusiastic Teen
    <C0pBED.36D@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 22:44:45 GMT
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences

Young Erik's plight was discussed yesterday, at our weekly "Candlemas
Planning Meeting and Panic Session". Our charming autocrat (hi, Phil, I
know you're out there. :-) is aware of the situation, and we believe that
we will be able to team him up with someone who knows their way around
the Society in general, and Candlemas in particular. And yes, Lothar, there
_will_ be lots of royalty at this year's Candlemas. Makes me kinda glad
I'm going to be in the kitchen all day! But then, we all must do what we
must do, lest what we must do not get done. (Quick, anybody, where's that
quote from? I'll give you three guesses and the first two don't count.)

As for Candlemas, we're expecting a fabulous event this year. We've got the
same site as last year--the Oleika Shrine Temple. It's so _nice_ to have
the feast site and day site in the same place. It means I get to come out
of the kitchen occasionally and look around at all the pretty Ladies in
their finery. It also means I can bob for the occasional rose, too.

Well, I've babbled enough for one post. I just wanted the rialto to know
that we were on top of the situation (or, at least, we're pretending to
be. :-)

Ciao, bambinos,

Giuseppe Fabrizzio, head kitchen helper, Candlemas VI (which does NOT
mean that I'm Basilicus' boy. Those of you who know him will understand
what I mean. Heh heh heh. :-)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca