HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: davidme@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au (David Meiklejohn)
Subject: Re: HELP--AMIGA OR IBM PC CLONE?
Organization: Qld Dept Primary Industries
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 03:51:08 GMT

In article <DAS9674.93Jan12150113@a111.ucs.usl.edu> das9674@ucs.usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A) writes:
>
>David, what kind of work with video do you do with your Amiga?

This is the sort of thing that should be answered through mail, but I want to
make a point.

I don't do any video work, whatsoever, with my Amiga.  The closest I've come
was interfacing a video digitiser I developed for the Tandy CoCo to it, but
that was just for the sake of doing it, not because I had a use for it.

I use my Amiga to log in to the system at work, so I can read News from home.
I like programming, as a hobby (I also program PCs as part of my job, but
that's work), so I often fire up SAS/C.  I write letters and such on my Amiga,
using ProWrite.  I've done things like working out my tax return, using
MaxiPlan.  I keep records of magazine reviews and such, and I use Superbase
Personal for that.  I also sometimes play arcade games, and, when I used to
have more time, I used to spend a lot of it playing adventures and RPGs.

All of these things, I could do on a PC.  I choose to use an Amiga because the
environment is so much better to work in.  I have no use for video, and my
decision to own an Amiga has nothing to do with that.




-- 
David Meiklejohn (davidme@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au)
 - PC's, Unix, and networks by day, Amigas by night...
Currently residing in Mareeba, Far North Queensland, Australia
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett)
Subject: Re: CBM does it again... 23 watt p.s. for A1200?!?
Keywords: gimme a break
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 04:55:14 GMT

In article <1993Jan9.004422.14282@usl.edu> das9674@ucs.usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A) writes:
>I'm not enough of a power type to know if 23W is 'too' weak, but how MANY
>add in cards CAN the 1200, as a console, TAKE?  Eh?  Then,
>maybe a 23watt PS might not be so bad.  These montrous PSs 
>are usually for towered machines expecting gobs of cards.

   First, the A1200 and A600 power supplies should be a bit larger than the
ones used with the A500 for the simple reason that the A1200 and A600 are
designed to use an internal HD and the A500 wasn't.  Extta power is obviously
needed to accomodate the HD.  Next, consider any extra power needed by the
underside expansion port.  In the A1200 especially, cards in the underside
expansion port will very likely use more power than cards in the underside port
of the A500.  Finally, consider any extra power to accomodate PCMCIA
peripherals, which are even less likely to have their own power supply than
peripherals plugged into the A500's side expansion port.

   Put all this together, and a power supply for the A1200 and A600 should be
able to deliver about twice the power of the one used with the A500.  Commodore
might be able to get by with less, but using a power supply with twice the
wattage would also silence the numerous people who criticized Commodore's
A500 power supplies.

---
| Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
--------------------------------------------------------------------
"No, I just think that a computer grafted on top of another computer
is a kludge.  It has nothing to do with the AGA chipset." -- me
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jkh@whisker.lotus.ie (Jordan K. Hubbard)
Subject: tcl on the Amiga [was Re: Byte's Amiga 4000 review...]
Organization: Lotus Development Ireland
	<1993Jan10.164112.9102@ra.msstate.edu>
	<C0nnDn.3ML@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu>
	<1993Jan10.224326.24838@ra.msstate.edu>
	<EMCOOP.93Jan10190216@bcars148.bnr.ca>
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 02:02:21 GMT

	i've seen a piece of REXX code, and it does look awful.  maybe it's time
	for someone to port TCL.  anyone have any idea how hard it would be?

	this message probably doesn't belong here.  sorry.  most likely
	the last thing the Amiga market needs is two such things running
	around.

No, not at all.  I think seeing some alternatives to AREXX would be a
fine thing.  Perl's already on the Amiga (look on
amiga.physik.unizh.ch) but is a little huge for the casual A500 hacker
and not much geared towards being an "extension" language the way
AREXX is anyway.  Besides, perl syntax is messy messy messy and the
last thing we need to do is replace one messy arcane syntax with
another!  I think porting tcl to the Amiga would be a Very Good Thing
indeed - especially if enough intuition interface was provided to give
something similar in power to tk.

					Jordan

--
Jordan Hubbard		Lotus Development Ireland	jkh@whisker.lotus.ie
I DO NOT SPEAK FOR LOTUS - IT HAS PLENTY OF LAWYERS TO DO THAT FOR IT ALREADY
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: fihsu@athena.mit.edu (Hsu I-wei)
Subject: Re: RISC Amiga?
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 17:28:50 GMT

In article <C0qstz.7CD@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> papresco@cantor.math.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Prescod) writes:
>>>Yes, and once the 68060 IS released (probably over a year from now and
>>>behind schedule), how long will it take for a stock Amiga to
>>>incorporate it.  They are selling PCs that can use the Pentium already.
>>
>>Don't be such an ass.  Commodore gets info on the 060 early just like 
>>the Clone assemblers get info on the 586 early.  As for selling Amigas
>>that can use the 060, Commodore has been doing that since the A1000.
>
>So if I want a 68060 based computer, I can buy a A4000 for $2500.00,
>throw out the 68040, and put in the 68060...good plan!

The 68040 on the A4000 is on a separate card rather than the motherboard.
This suggests that maybe C= will allow an A4000 owner to swap his 68040 card
for a 68060 at a discounted price, or at the very least you can sell the
68040 card to someone owning an AGA with a 68030 card. (Or sell it to an
A3000 owner.. are the CPU slots the same for both?) I hope this helps you
if you do get an A4000. Seems that you were ready to throw away a 68040 card
when it could save you hundreds of dollars upgrading to the 68060.

Francis
From: laire@klee.uni-paderborn.de (Ralph Schmidt)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Where is Mike Schwartz?
Date: 12 Jan 1993 18:54:10 +0100
Organization: Universitaet Paderborn, Germany
NNTP-Posting-Host: klee.uni-paderborn.de

sjchmura@kimbark.uchicago.edu (steven joseph chmura) writes:

>Just curious if he is still alive.  I know he bought a 486-50 ISA (no LB)    
>from Dell but I thought he still planned to use his A3000.

He still use his A3000 and other Amigas to my knownledge and he is
DEFINITELY alive:-B If you want to meet him you should join the
channel #amiga on IRC. He's there almost every day.

>Well, I guess another educated, talented, and amiga advocate has
>left for good :(

The only reason he's not active on the News is that he doesn't read
them anymore. He said to me that he had never so much free time:-B

>Thanks Mike for Dark Castle if you read this.  ALthough IT BREAKS
>on my A1200.........

Regards...
-- 
Ralph Schmidt                                            laire@uni-paderborn.de
University of Paderborn (Germany)
Organization: Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 16:49:22 EST
From: <LEEK@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: CBM does it again... 23 watt p.s. for A1200?!?
 <1993Jan10.083803.14221@netcom.com>

In article <1993Jan10.083803.14221@netcom.com>, damiel@netcom.com (Paul
Theodoropoulos) says:
>
>In <93010.004230LEEK@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> <LEEK@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> writes:
>
>PLEASE, if you are going to include attribution headers in your followups,
>include ALL relevant attributions. the following puts marc barrett's words
>apparently into MY mouth, and i DO NOT APPRECIATE THAT ONE BIT.

I guess I should be careful not to lump other people to Marc's comment.
I am sorry that I have cause any confusion here.  Watching TV and
posting don't mix too well.  (Right now I am trying to read, post and
listen to TV rerun.  Guess I don't learn.)

>paul theodoropoulos     damiel@netcom.com     (hooools@well.sf.ca.us)

I thought you deserve the public version of my appology too as the
dreaded name "MARC" is an insult to get associated these days. :) :)

K. C. Lee
Elec. Eng. Grad. Student
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: abuhr@owlnet.rice.edu (Aaron M. Buhr)
Subject: To VM or not to VM?
Organization: Rice University
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 16:06:29 GMT

     The Amiga advocates' argument against VM seems to revolve around the
idea that VM slows the system down so much as to make it useless, and that
if you can't afford to buy more memory you shouldn't run those types of
programs.  As a counter-example to this argument, I use the standard,
platform-independent djpeg/cjpeg code (whoever it's by) a lot.  For the
larger images, these programs seem to want a lot of memory.  Now, I wish I
could afford to buy enough RAM to hold all the image data by itself, not
even including whatever other applications I want to use, but with VM it's
not that big a deal.

     For example, quite often while I am decompressing and converting images
in the background, I am telecommunicating in the foreground.  While the 512K
or whatever amount of active code for the communications package is left
untouched, VM swaps out less-frequently-used image data for the jpeg
packages.  True, the jpeg decompression runs more slowly since it's data is
being swapped out, but since I am able to do something else (tele-
communicate) it really doesn't bother me.

     I really don't see how you can claim that it would be better to have
the system refuse to run since I don't have enough memory to decompress
things, or force me to shut down my telecommunications program to get that
memory back, and, of course, I can't afford more memory.  Since modem links
are inherently slow (with respect to any decent CPU), and since the serial
drivers run at high priority, I don't even see much of a performance hit 
in the telecommunication session.  This is all under OS/2.

     Also, if you were to respond that the jpeg programs should be more
intelligent, and themselves swap image data out, it would seem to me that
you would be arguing in favor of program-controlled VM as opposed to 
system-controlled VM, rather than to have no VM which seems to be the
current argument.  And program-controlled VM vs. system-controlled VM is
an entirely different discussion with entirely different issues.

     I hope this proves enlightening. :)


Aaron Buhr
abuhr@owlnet.rice.edu
From: jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Date: 12 Jan 93 16:29:05 GMT
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
X-Posted-From: hemi.msi.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

Jack Radigan (jprad@faatcrl.faa.gov) wrote:
:
: Windows falls completely into that category, it is an inferior "OS" that was
: made successful by a very good marketing scheme.  These same people could
: quite easily make money selling shit in a pie pan too.
:

Yes, it's quite trendy these days to bash MS and its products.  In fact, it's
gotten to the point in this country where it's fashionable to put down any
successful company or individual.  Most of the time, however, the bashers
don't have any proof to back up their claims.

:   -jack-
--
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
| JERRY J. SHEKHEL  | Molecular Simulations Inc. | Time just fades the pages |
| Drummers do it... |     Burlington, MA USA     | in my book of memories.   |
|    ... In rhythm! |        jerry@msi.com       |         -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
From: mr_scary@lakes.trenton.sc.us (Chris Hurley)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Byte's Amiga 4000 review...
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 93 15:13:13 EST
Reply-To: mr_scary@lakes.trenton.sc.us (Chris Hurley)
Organization: Lakes Public Access

jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:

> If you think a 1200 is as fast or powerful as a 486sx, you are sadly mistaken
> 
> :

Although I've never seen an A1200, I did have my 2 mb A500 running 
Kickstart 2.04 for over a year (before migrating to OS/2) and I would 
easily say that my A500 performed on par with most any 386 that was sold 
through our store (standard VGA machines with 2 mb memory or so...)  
(When running Windows, or OS/2 on 6 and 8 mb machines).  That's not to 
say that those machines weren't fair.  (I'm getting to like OS/2, but I 
have 10 mb of memory)  Just to say that the 1200 probably performs quite 
well with the bulk of 486sx machines that are sold day-to-day.
       As noted above, I haven't seen the 1200, just the A500,A3000 and 
just about any PC config you can name (I have to burn 'em in)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: lindblad@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Jarkko Lindblad)
Subject: Re: HELP--AMIGA OR IBM P
Organization: University of Helsinki
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 23:37:05 GMT

Aric.Caley@ofa123.fidonet.org wrote:

> Again,  not  on  his card.  And no, the 68008 is NOT a newer version of the
> CPU in the A600.  The 68008 is a slower version that has an 8 bit bus.

Actually 68008 is newer than 68000, but it's way slower too :)

-- 
Jarkko Lindblad         | sleep my friend and you will see
lindblad@cc.helsinki.fi | that dream is my reality
------------------------| they keep me locked up in this cage
          - MetallicA - | can't they see it's why my brain say rage
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: mikeh@starnine.com (Mike Haas)
Subject: Re: clone prices & doom & gloom
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 03:51:57 GMT
Organization: StarNine Technologies, Inc.

In article <1iani1INN6ha@mozz.unh.edu> ggg@kepler.unh.edu (Gregory G Greene) writes:

>   on my 33/486 (which is slower then yours) Win-OS2 at 640x480x16 runs 
>   faster then my old 1meg A500 running a 4 color low-res WB.  Even when I

Ok... Amiga community... look out.

According to Greg here, they have finally come up with a 486 that
can outperform the "old 1meg A500".

Although, it is a little hard to believe.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: bill@snoopy (Bill Poitras)
Subject: Re: Amiga OS weaknesses and strengths
Reply-To: bill@west.msi.com
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 22:00:11 GMT

Joe O'Hara - Product Assurance (joe@cbmvax.commodore.com) wrote:
: In article <1993Jan6.184331.25829@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
: >Windows is a hell of a lot more functional for me than AmigaOS until you
: >can tell me where I can buy AmigaOS versions of Quicken and FrameMaker.
: >What do you know about the inside of Windows anyway?
: 
: This thread was about GUI environments, not the choice of applications to
: run under them. That's a different subject altogether; although I realize
: that it's one of your ongoing criticisms, do you have to inject it into
: everything :)

The list of availible applications for an OS is definitely a
strength/weakness.  People don't buy operating systems, they buy
applications.

--
+-----------------+-------------------------------+-------------------------+
| Bill Poitras    | Molecular Simulations Inc.    | Tel (408)522-9229       |
| (bill)          | Sunnyvale, CA USA             |                         | 
|                 | FAX (408)732-0831             | bill@west.msi.com       |
+-----------------+-------------------------------+-------------------------+

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett)
Subject: Re: More Amiga OS weaknesses and strengths
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 07:20:56 GMT

In article <1993Jan7.142911.61549@qut.edu.au> barham@qut.edu.au writes:
>Ho ho, this is gonna be fun...
>
>barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett) writes:
>> In article <C0Et7p.GwA@starnine.com> mikeh@starnine.com (Mike Haas) writes:
>> >It happens on mine... to be specific, when I create an alias for an
>> >application and move it to the desktop, double-clicking will (about
>> >half the time) bring up a dialog box saying it can't find the
>> >application!  I have to find the folder holding that app and open it!
>>
>>    True, but we are talking about a problem with aliases here, not with project
>> or document files.  Aliases are easily possible on the Amiga, but there are
>> no automatic facilities for creating them available, even in freeware or
>> shareware.
>
>Is it true aliases on the Mac are the equivelent of links on the
>Amiga?

   No.  Amiga links are hard links, and cannot link across volumes or
filesystems.  Mac aliases can be linked across almost anything, even a 
network.  Amiga softlinks might be a better approximation of Mac aliases,
but Amiga softlinks are broken, and nobody will argue about that.  Even
Commodore discourages the use of softlinks because the current implementation
is not finished.

---
| Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
--------------------------------------------------------------------
"No, I just think that a computer grafted on top of another computer
is a kludge.  It has nothing to do with the AGA chipset." -- me
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett)
Subject: Re: To VM or not to VM?
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 02:37:57 GMT

In article <1993Jan6.200547.17217@seas.gwu.edu> gerald@seas.gwu.edu (Gerald G. Washington) writes:
>abuhr@owlnet.rice.edu (Aaron M. Buhr) writes:
>>     The Amiga advocates' argument against VM seems ...
>
>... unreasonable, since the Amiga has VM.

   As standard software, as OS/2 and the Macintosh does?  No.  Does the Amiga
have an unsupported third-party VM system available for it?  Yes.

---
| Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
--------------------------------------------------------------------
"No, I just think that a computer grafted on top of another computer
is a kludge.  It has nothing to do with the AGA chipset." -- me
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: mlelstv@specklec.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Michael van Elst)
Subject: Re: CBM does it again... 23 watt p.s. for A1200?!?
Keywords: gimme a break
Organization: Max-Planck-Institut f"ur Radioastronomie
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 21:44:47 GMT

In <1993Jan8.122914.21083@cheshire.oxy.edu> leavitt@cheshire.oxy.edu (Thomas VanNess Leavitt) writes:
>Geez, thats even less powerful than the pathetic 35 watt p.o.s. I had
>burn up on me with a console alone!  Of all the things to scrimp on, this
>has to be about the most ridiculous... come on, why not give us a standard
>150 or 200 watt p.s.  How much could it cost?

$80 extra ? And most folx wouldn't use it and could as well get problems
because such a unit generates extra heat. It would also make people try
to add lots of extensions that may not run for other reasons.

Regards,
-- 
Michael van Elst
UUCP:     universe!local-cluster!milky-way!sol!earth!uunet!unido!mpirbn!p554mve
Internet: p554mve@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de
                                "A potential Snark may lurk in every tree."
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: papresco@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Paul Prescod)
Subject: Re: An Amigan does it *again* Re: clone prices & doom & gloom
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 16:09:32 GMT

>Well, how fun is it to program a PC? Not a blast I can tell you,
>especially not when it comes to moving graphics...

Well, I don't do graphics programming (although I have seen some kick
ass *SHAREWARE* tookits for it.

What I do program is DOS,Windows, OS/2 and Unix...all on one box.  I
use ANY language I want.  Shareware languages I have seen:

C, C++, Basic, Cobol, Oberon, Lisp, Perl, plus there are tons I haven't
seen, and if you run unix, you have the full range of unix languages,
that you compile yourself, like Modula-3 and Tex.

I consider this LOADS of fun!
From: kodak@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Jason 'KodaK' Balicki)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Date: 13 Jan 93 01:31:18 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center

In article <1993Jan12.210030.1472@msi.com> bill@west.msi.com writes:
>Jack Radigan (jprad@faatcrl.faa.gov) wrote:

      "More Amigas are used to accomplish "real" work Jerry, more 
       than you're able to admit to yourself.  Of course, it's rather 
       nice to take a recreational diversion with a game every now 
       and then, which is how the A500 here (which is normally setup 
       as a debugging console) is for."

>More Amigas are used to accomplish "real" work than what?  PCs? Macs?

Than, in Jacks origional words, Jerry was able to admit.

>Sega Genesis?  Super Nintendo Entertainment System?  I concede on the
>last two, but not on the first two.

He wasn't making a comparison to any other computer system, just to
a limit he saw imposed by Jerry.  Please read more carefully and
things will go smoothly.

>--
>+-----------------+-------------------------------+-------------------------+
>| Bill Poitras    | Molecular Simulations Inc.    | Tel (408)522-9229       |
>| (bill)          | Sunnyvale, CA USA             |                         | 
>|                 | FAX (408)732-0831             | bill@west.msi.com       |
>+-----------------+-------------------------------+-------------------------+


--Jason Balicki
kodak@mentor.cc.purdue.edu
From: mbrown@legend.akron.oh.us (MARK BROWN)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: HELP--AMIGA OR IBM PC CLONE?
Reply-To: mbrown@legend.akron.oh.us
X-Software: Legend (216-825-2747) UUCPShell v4.9/med20Dec92
X-Disclaimer: Opinions of users do not necessarily reflect those of managment
Date: 7 Jan 93 16:30:50 EST
Organization: The Legend BBS Public Access (216)825-2747

Well here(Akron Oh) Our dealer(the one I go to at least, Chucks 
) Sells the Amiga 4000 with 6 megs of ram, 120 meg hd, no Monitor, 
With Adpro and AGA Dpaint for $2300 bucks(plus Tax_). The 3rd Party 
amiga Graphic Boards will Compete Nicely with the 3rd Party Graphic 
boards for the IBM(alot use the same Type Graphic Engines) Remember 
that the Local Bus was seen on the amiga in 87' when the A2000 came 
out(in other words it was not an IBM market design, But a Commodore 
design, same with the CPU Upgrade slot which the IBM market is also 
copying). Graphic Proccessors range from the 34010 to the 34040 to the 
iNmos A300gas Proccessor.
  Mark

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy