HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mte152s@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
Subject: DATA: Asia Military compared
Date: 14 Nov 92 11:04:12 +1100
Organization: Computer Centre, Monash University, Australia

================================================================================
Top Guns and Men at Arms in 1991 in Asia
Source: AsiaWeek, November 13, 1992
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Country	Defence		Change		% of GDP	Total Forces	Pop
	Spending	from 1990			(000 persons)	million
	(US$ million)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Japan	$32,680		+2.5%		1.0%		246		123.8
China	$11,850		+13.3%		3.2%		3,030		1152.5
SKorea	$10,770		-4.2%		3.8%		633		43.2
Taiwan	$9,290		+3.2%		5.4%		300,000		20.6
India	$8,070		-6.1%		2.9%		1,265		845.7
N.Korea	$5,450		-2.0%		26.7%		1,132
S'pore	$3,681		+15.6%		5.4%				2.6
Pakist	$3,230		+7.6%		7.0%		580		115.6
Thailnd	$2,400		N/A		2.5%		283		56.3
Vietnam	$2,320		+10.0%		16.6%		857		69.0
Malasia	$1,720		+7.3%		3.7%				18.1
Indonsa	$1,550		-2.1%		1.3%		283		182.0
Burma	$1,060		-11.0%		4.2%		286		42.6
Phillpn	$987		-4.0%		2.2%				63
Bangldsh$303		-6.8%		1.3%				115.6
================================================================================
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: XIAOJIAN@CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject:      MFN, Clinton and IFCSS
Reply-To: XIAOJIAN@CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 04:36:27 GMT
Comments: To: china-nt@uga.cc.uga.edu

Clinton won the election just because of the bad American economy, not because
of his honesty, family value or human rights fighting record.

We all know Clinton's China policy views in his campaign. But I don't think
he will implement that and China still has high possibility to keep MFN, if
IFCSS and/or media don't keep reminding his stand in his campaign. To a
real politician such as Clinton, the strategy applied in election campaign
and the one used in office are totally two different stories. Clinton knows
that he is a new-hand on foreign policy and better avoid the mineland. And
if China should lose MFN, uncle Sam also suffers a lot since tens of thousands
of jobs related to foreign trade will be lost. Uncle Sam is not possible to
sacrifice so much just for another nation's human rights. So the proposal to
lobby for a CMFN with HR condition *ONLY* is just a lovely, but naive dream.

But if IFCSS keep reminding Clinton what he had said about China in his
campaign against Bush, Clinton may have to be sticked to CMFN, which
most likely, if not definitely, causes China to lose MFN to avoid others
call him a liar again. If everyone keeps silence on that the Clinton would
probably follow "foreign policy continuity" new strategy.

Since foreign trade is playing a train-head role in China's economy and USA
is the biggest partner. IFCSS must be very careful on MFN issue to avoid
bearing the historical responsibility if China should lose her MFN under
Clinton's adminstration. At most, IFCSS can represent CSS in USA, cannot
represent *Chinese people* whose daily lifes may be affected by MFN.

Talking about Human rights, let's see former Soviet union. Now nobody
criticize its HR records because it is already a democracy. But Corby's
passport was once taken away even though he is the most famous guy in
the world. His think tank was disbanded. The political rival group was
also outlawed without any sound reason. Ironically, the police group which is
controlled by the parliament and just for protecting parliament was also
outlawed and disbanded just because more and more congressmen did not
want to side with Yeltsin anymore. And small scale fighting in former
Soviet never stops which results loss of hundreds of life. Where is the
human rights? Unfortunately, all these sufferings are far from the end to
"free" Russian and other former Soviet people.

I love human rights and democracy, but there is not easy quick way to
get in the reality. While more and more people want to get a Chinese
greencard and few want a Russia greencard, don't push China to a wrong
and fatal way the former Soviet Union is "enjoying".


William Deng
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi)
Subject: Re: Reasons for Japan's China policy.
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Lowell Computer Science
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 19:56:45 GMT

In article <BxAxxx.202@apollo.hp.com> zl@apollo.hp.com writes:
>Weize Wade Xiong wrote:
>She doesn't want to be alienated by westerners by flirting with the barbaric 
>and communist China.
Screw all imperilists and their running dogs!
What can you do about "barbaric and communist" china?
Nothing!
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: liuyh@vis.toronto.edu (Yuanhui Liu)
Subject: Re: Dai Qing's cheap talk
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto
Distribution: na  
Date: 8 Nov 92 20:30:05 GMT

In article <9211080051.AA11076@neptune.ctr.columbia.edu> yjj@ctr.columbia.edu (Yuan Jiang) writes:
>Words from Dai Qing are to cheap.
>
>>3. Dai Qing: China's Most-Favored-Nation Trade Status Necessary ......... 60
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>By: George Zhu
>>Source: CND, 11/3/92
>
>>CAMBRIDGE, Mass. -- Dai Qing, a leading Chinese journalist and writer, said
>>in an interview on Oct. 28 that the United States should continue its
>>most-favored-nation trade status to China "for the sake of ordinary Chinese
>
>The conditional granting MFN bill will only remove the tariff benefit from
>the government owned companies.  It will not hurt the private enterprise
>and business.  it will promote private enterprise in China.
>
oh, so what about those private enterprises doing business with
the state sector, providing them with raw material?  what about 
joint ventures?  How would people work for "state enterprises"
feed their family while "iron rice bowl" is broken just like
everyone wanted it to be?   

This is even more simple-minded than Boris Yeltsin:  "let's give everybody
freedom and democracy, and sell everything, so we can be as rich &
comfortable just like the Americans."  He encouraged "private enterprises",
and start fire-sale "state-enterprises", did it work?  why did he
stop?  

dream on ... 


[......] 

Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: math1pf@rosie.uh.edu (Zheng, Ping)
Subject: Re: the congratulation letter to Clinton
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 05:32:00 GMT

In article <BxBB4w.4CD@acsu.buffalo.edu>, xiaofei@acsu.buffalo.edu (XiaoFei Wang) writes...
>/* jwh3@po.CWRU.Edu (Junwei W. Hou) wrote */:
>* 
>*      It's so astonishingly true that a near-insane ego, an "ex-"      
>* title, plus liar-style "competence" could make a "hero" in not-
>* quite-so-few CSS's minds where the greatness of this nation seems
>* shy away from the shameless words and deeds of the "hero". 
>*  
>*                                    Junwei
It is so (*1*) true that a (*2*) ego could make a hero in so many(= not-
quit-so-few) CSS's minds. In these minds(= where),the greatness of this 
nation seem feel shy and run away from the shameless words and deeds of
the "hero".(the auther doesn't beleive it is a hero by using " ")
*1*: look it up in dictionary
*2*: this ego is almost insane,and it is an "ex(tra)" title,together with
its liar style "competence"(here "competence" implies the auther doesn't
believe it is competent),could make a hero ...
> 
>I am not a law student so I have great difficulty in understand complex
>sentences. I would appreciate it if some genius could translate the
>sentence so that I could also understand. 
> 
>:wq
>..
>-- 
>xiaofei@acsu.buffalo.edu | Subscribe Chinese Poem Exchange and Discussion List 
>mail LISTSERV@UBVM.BITNET with "SUB CHPOEM-L 1st LastName" in the MESSAGE BODY
>InterNet Address: UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU | Posting in UUENCODED GB and BIG5

I love Junwei's style. Some one said he is an ABC, I am not sure,but I'd rather
hope that is true ,because I can hardly imagine a man grown up in China can
master English so well.
You can't write it that way,but you don't have to be a law student to be able
to understand it.I am in a science major,who has proudly got a M.S. in 
electrical engineering and a M.S. in applied math. To tell you the truth,
my verbal score of GRE is 330 three years ago.But I improved a lot through 
study.
Sorry,I don't mean to "teach" you,just because Mr. Hou Junwei is my hero.
From: jwh3@po.CWRU.Edu (Junwei W. Hou)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
Subject: Ozone Man's Beauty (Re: China's MFN)
Date: 12 Nov 92 04:00:25 GMT
Reply-To: jwh3@po.CWRU.Edu (Junwei W. Hou)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc12.ins.cwru.edu


(Nov. 11, 1992) Ozone Man's Beauty (Re: China's MFN)
*********************************

     Finally, he is there, holding the banner of change,
envisioned, partly, by his Milwaukee speech.

     Standing next to him, the "Ozone Man" -- a rather weird title
crowned by the President, intended to be a "kinder and gentler"
attack.

     But I can hardly find a reason to dislike the guy wearing the
"ozone hat".  I guess it's because I'm a Clinton fan.  And more, I
kind of like that title too, let alone the fact it was a courtesy
of the Republicans.

     An Ozone Man, on the earth, looking up to the blue sky,
wondering about the hole over North Pole, thinks about both the
future and the present.  Perhaps he would be blamed by those
unemployed for reminding people that a tougher environmental
standard should be set, burdening those employers who might
otherwise hire more unemployed.  Or perhaps he would be praised for
his stand for a value, a value of being part of the harmony of the
earth family; call it a new kind of "family value", if you may.

     It surely will be a hard choice facing an Ozone Man.  A
principle, and a reality, mirror the future and the present.  I bet
it'll take a man of vision to tackle this dilemma of the modern
days.

     An Ozone Man, as I rather perceive, is the one daring to hold
on an uncompromisable value of his pursuit, yet industriously
taking on helping the deserved and the innocents achieve a better
life, for they are the core of a family and his hope for the
harmony. 
 
     That's the beauty of an Ozone Man I admire dearly. 


                              Junwei
     
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: Carl__@nwu.edu 
Subject: Re: Chinese, Are You Jealous?
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois, USA
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 16:27:18 GMT

In article <BxGLpG.8Hn@cs.psu.edu> jyw@phys.psu.edu (Jin-Yuan Wu) writes:
> In article <BxFHGM.4sH@cs.psu.edu> anthony@phys.psu.edu (Mai Haigiu) writes:
> >Shame on all those Chinese who celebrate Bill Cliton's victory! What's your
> >business? What Bill Cliton will do to you: a Non US citizen Chinese? Don't
> >forget where's your home!
> >
> >--HAMLET
> 
> Just re-post. We are Chinese. We do need to remind ourselves this fact
> from time to time.
>

I don't think we need to remind ourselves from time to time. Other peoples will  
remind us that we are Chinese. So what, we are Chinese, just like salt is  
salty. Nothing to be proud of and nothing to be ashamed of. It's just a neutral  
statement. Chinese is just a label, just like you label a kind of animal  
"horse". There are good horses and there are bad horses. But horses need not  
necessarily feel proud because there are good horses and feel ashamed because  
there are bad horses.
 
> There is a Chinese who skipped his lunch when he read "Congradulations Bill" 
> on the screen and held his mouth for 10 min. to avoid blowing his 
> breakfast out. Please observe others health before posting something 
> which should be kept in private.
> 
> 

Tell that guy not to put too much burden on himself. Otherwise I bet that guy  
will die in his young age. Tell him to take it easy.

Carl 
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china,soc.culture.china
From: xlli@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (xiao-lin li)
Subject: Re: Chinese, Are You Jealous?
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 21:28:11 GMT

In article <1992Nov6.142347.22123@tamsun.tamu.edu> x0y3510@tamuts.tamu.edu (Xuejun Yang) writes:
>
>I think Mr. Li is one of those people with very low self-esteem and
>unsure of one's position in other people's minds. He is an extreme
>example of the saying " The grass is always greener on the other side
>of the fence" phenomenon. He mixed up formality with reality. I
>just hope he could grow up and as you correctly said come back down
>to earth.

It seems that Mr. Yang always maintain a high self-esteem. Anything
he does not have is because he doesn't like it. His grass is
always greener than others because he can paint it.

By the way, I was very amused that people in California painted
their lawn when there had been a long time drought. I was in
L. A. last summer. My friend showed it to me. Quite impressive :-).



Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: yjj@ctr.columbia.edu (Yuan Jiang)
Subject: Re: PC for Liu Qing
Organization: The Ohio State University Department of Computer and Information Science
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 22:03:07 GMT

Good news, a local PC store owned by a Chinese HRiC supporter likes to
sell (and donate) a 286 PC with 40MB HD, 1.44MB FD and a VGA graphic
monitor, and a Panasonics 1123 24 pin printer to Liu Qing.  A couple
of parts are used.  Other parts are new and cost ~$450 wholesale.  He basically
expressed that he is willing to give out even we come short of covering
the cost of new parts.  But I think we should pay him as much as possible,
shoot for $450-$500.  How is that.  I need a final number.

I've got warm responses.  CND members have put out some.  SUNY Buffalo
has gethered some.  However, I'm not sure whether there is any overlap.
So, give a final definite answer to me,
Rupert Zhu rzhu@math.uwaterloo.ca, OR (exclusive or)
Luo Ning (WEIHE GUAN) <GLLGUAN@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu

Then Rupert and Weihe give me a final number.  Check should be mailed
to

Human Rights in China (HRiC)
485 Fifth Avenue, 3Fl
New York, NY  10017
USA

with a note stating the donation is for Liu's PC.  If you need any
notation from HRiC for you tax purpose, please also state so.  I guess
you all know HRiC is a not-for-profit and charitable organization.

Yuan
From: wwxiong@tony.ksu.ksu.edu (Weize Wade Xiong)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
Subject: Wording in this News group.
Date: 5 Nov 1992 22:18:37 -0600
Organization: Kansas State University
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: tony.ksu.ksu.edu


Hi Guys, Girls let's quit using  offensive four-letter-words in this group please.
We are educated people.


Thank of not doing that again!
Weize Xiong
NO BORG!
From: kemnitz@netcom.com (Greg Kemnitz)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
Subject: Re: What CMFN can accomplish? (Re: MFN under Clinton Administration)
Date: 10 Nov 92 01:33:33 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)


The Chinese government is the one who has to be "pragmatic" here.  Clinton
has committed to CMFN on the campaign trail, and the liberal wing of his
party will hold him to it.  Additionally, the protectionist forces will jump
all over Clinton if he dares advocate UMFN - remember that those groups helped
Clinton get elected.  That fight is not one he is really interested in
fighting, since he'll need all the support in Congress he can get to get his
domestic program through, and presidents don't win re-election by their
China policy, although they can lose by it (cf Woodrow Wilson and Shandong, and
many politicians in the 1950's).

As Joe Wang points out, the "pragmatism" here is to make sure the "C" in CMFN
is something which can be achieved by the PRC government.  UMFN is, IMHO, a
dead issue.

Remember that Bush was personally and directly involved with the Nixon
opening to China.  Clinton and the new Administration have no such loyalties.
The PRC will have to get used to a harder line from the US and know that the
number of friends it has in the US government has decreased trememdously, to
its lowest level since the 1960's.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Greg Kemnitz                        | "I ran out of the room - I
MultiMedia Information Systems Inc. | didn't want to be killed by a pile
kemnitz@multisys.com                | of VMS manuals" :-)
                                    |
                                    | --A friend at DEC Palo Alto in the Quake
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: "Ignatius Y. Ding" <ding@HPSMTC1.CUP.HP.COM>
Subject:      Re: information request
Organization: The Ohio State University; Department of Phyiscs
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 18:23:01 GMT

> >I can give you some accounts on Xiao Bin based on my knowledge from
> >TV reports.  Since this particular case is closely related to the
> >NBC in the US, it is widely known.
>
> Somehow, I seem to remember it was ABC news that was involved, not NBC.

True. it was ABC.

Ignatius Ding
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: phsj@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Su Jianfeng)
Subject: Re: MFN under Clinton Administration?
Organization: James Cook University
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 92 05:13:30 GMT

In article <Bx7G5A.4As@ulowell.ulowell.edu> cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi) writes:
>In article <Bx7BpL.1yB@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> "(Zhenqin Li)" <zli@IRIS116.BIOSYM.COM> writes:
>>October 15), the U.S. sale to the Third World now accounts for
>>about 58% of the total. The only issue that the U.S. could pick
>>on China with some degree of legitimacy is in terms of human rights.
>               **************************
>How can a country pick anybody on human rights given:
>    1. half of the GNP is borrowed from foreigners, and have no intention to
>      pay for currently. Leave it for future generations, where are their
>      human rights;
>    2. 1/3 of women will be attacked sexually in her life time;
>    3.Turn most concentrated place of civilization---City into jungle or
>       war zone;
>    4. 1/4 of households have at least one marijuana;
>    5. 600,000 children get kidnapped.
>
>>For the purpose of promoting human rights, there exist different
>       

Has any American politician asked other countries to punish his country
?

J Su
From: 5546yuj@vms.csd.mu.edu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
Subject: Re: talk.politics.china
Date: 13 Nov 1992 23:55:02 GMT
Organization: Marquette University - Computer Services
Reply-To: 5546yuj@vms.csd.mu.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: vmsa.csd.mu.edu

In article <1dvs6uINN12b@iris.usc.edu>, yangchen@iris.usc.edu (Yang Chen) writes:
>exuwng@exu.ericsson.se (Wade (Wei) Wang,xt-do,x7886) writes:
>
>
>> Wish some goodies, no dirties here.
>
>But, where in the world do you find CLEAN politics? :-)
>
>Yang

WHAT IS POLITICS?

JY
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: wshi@ponder.csci.unt.edu (Weiping Shi)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
Subject: Re: MFN under Clinton Administration?
Date: 5 Nov 92 07:29:21 GMT
Organization: University of North Texas

I expect Clinton will do the same as what Bush did.
He might sell more weapons to Taiwan, but unlikely
he will lift MFN.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: UFDZ@UFPINE.BITNET
Subject:      MFN
Reply-To: UFDZ@UFPINE.BITNET
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 14:25:00 GMT

                                MFN
        I agree with li jinghong, we should work hard to restrict the human
right condition as the unique condition to MFN. Nothing else.
        1) we do not want China lose MFN
        2) We do want to push CG to improve human right condition, without
pressure, CG will never try to improve human right, because they are afraid
of improving human right in China.
        therefore, push unique human right condition and against attaching
any other conditions to MFN, probably is the correct strategy for this
time.
                                                Dawei Zhou, Florida
Xref: sparky talk.politics.china:2573 soc.culture.china:29958
From: yan@mercury.cs.uregina.ca (Yongfei Yan)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china,soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Patriotism is the Opium of the Mass (was Re: Chinese, Are You Jealous)
Date: 8 Nov 92 16:30:55 GMT
Organization: University of Regina, SK, Canada

In article <BxDLGH.2wq@ulowell.ulowell.edu> cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi) writes:
>In article <BxDJAL.9Eq@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> yawei@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (~{QG9p~}) writes:
>>
>>Patriotism is the opium of the mass.
>You "D-fighters", you even radicule patriotism. leave my country alone!
>>
>>
>>    Ya-Gui Wei
>>
>>
>
>

I don't think patriotism is the opium of the mass. A better analogy is
probably spirit (alcohol).  It does no harm if you have appropriate amount 
of it, but spirits you up. It will consume you if you abuse it.


Yongfei Yan
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: H.Wang@bradford.ac.uk
Subject:      test, ignore please
Reply-To: H.Wang@bradford.ac.uk
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 18:19:12 GMT
Comments: To: china-nt@uga.cc.uga.edu

test please ignore


                                 Dai, Qing

                         Celebrated Journalist of China
                         Nieman Fellow, Harvard University

Would she mind coming here to UK?
Xref: sparky talk.politics.china:2569 soc.culture.china:29946
From: leung@DSG.Tandem.COM (Steven Leung)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china,soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Patriotism is the Opium of the Mass (was Re: Chinese, Are You Jealous)
Date: 8 Nov 92 17:01:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: dsg.1992Nov8.170123.19372
Organization: Tandem Computers
Originator: leung@bittemple


yawei@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (~{QG9p~}) writes:

> ...
> Patriotism is the opium of the mass.

Well, could be. But opium does have some great medical values,
especially for cancer patients. "Wu4(things) Wu2(no_matter) Mei3(nice)
Wu4(bad), Guo4(excess) Ze2(then) Wei2(is) Zai1(disaster)." The
problem is really when and how one should use them.

Steven
-- 
328. Seek opportunity, not security. ...
        - Life's Little Instruction Book by H. J. Brown, Jr.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: "(Ye)" <stacc0@QUANTUM.FIU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: MFN, Clinton and IFCSS...
Reply-To: "(Ye)" <stacc0@QUANTUM.FIU.EDU>
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 15:11:53 GMT
Comments: To: china-nt@uga.cc.uga.edu

Let's look at the subgroups of both the UMFN and CMFN factions:
1) those who does not want Uncle Sam to set terms for China's policy.
2) those who does not want to risk the possibility of losing MFN status.
3) those who wants MFN, but can take some risk in order to save comrades.
4) those who believes 'give me freedom, or give you no trade'.

To put it in layman's language. 1) is against gambling, 2) is scared to gamble,
3) is a level-headed gambler, 4) will bet his wife on the table for the thrill.
(by the way, no derogatory implication is intended here. So possible CCP
recruiters: don't bother to call 8-)).

The question then is for 2) and 3) to get together, weighing the risk and
possible gains, and work out an acceptable risk factor. If the two can
convince each other and form a majority, it will be a victory for IFCSS's
leadership, although I am sure they can in noway influence the outcome of
future CMFN bill.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china