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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 26 Jan 1993 13:27:08 EST
From:         dave talaga x2752 <talaga@E5SF.OSDHW.SYR.GE.COM>
Subject:      Re: HOW LOW HAVE WE GONE.

> No, I do not advocate abortion as a birth control measure.  That being
> said, I object much more strongly to Christians doing things that drag the
> name of Jesus in the gutter and to me, this sort of action does just that.
>
> Where is the Christian wittness in such an activity?  How does it bring
> glory to God Almighty?  How does it make disciples for Christ?  I can only
> believe that it does none of those things.  It only glorifies a movement
> and attitude that should have no Christian attachment whatever.
>
> Note:  I am not impuning the motives or Christianity of the participants, I
> believe they have been misled by an organized attack on Christianity, not
> something for it.
>
> This is my opinion only, it is not meant to insult nor injure, just to
> provoke thought.
>
> Dan Graham



I believe Alexander Solsenietzyn (spell check) said something to the
effect that "If we could only make evil so evil and good so good that
anyone could see the difference, then we could tell the difference
between good people and evil people."  Of course, in real life the
distiction between good and evil is a tricky one to define, and most
people tend not to bother with it too much.  However, as Christians, we
are in the business of discerning twixt good and evil, how else would
we be able to tell the difference between them (evil) and us (good).

For the most part we muddle through the distinctions: things like
income tax evasion, lust, anger, politics, etc..  Those things are
really tough to get a handle on -- pretty subjective (has anyone
figured out if Darren Provine is a Democrat or Republican? :>) ), and,
therefore, are not very useful as a yardstick for measuring what's good
or evil (Christian or non).  But, there are some things that are so
evil, or so good, that there is no mistaking where a child of God
should stand concerning them; and, when we do find such a thing, we
snatch it up and take it for all it's worth.

On one hand, I think the abortion issue fits the evil thing perfectly,
while on the other hand, a ministry like the 700 Club fits the good
one.  It has been my experience that if you attempt to question such
arbitrary standards, you a generally chastised roundly.

Now I am not saying the abortion should be legal, I don't think it
should, or that Pat Robertson is a shyster, I think he is, or even that
anyone involved with either/or is wrong.  No, I am saying that
christianity as a whole insists on securing a means by which they can
somehow prove to themselves that they really are Christian.  I believe,
as a whole, that things like the abortion issue are so important
because of what "christians" get out of it for themselves and not what
they are doing for others.

PLEASE:  If anyone is insulted or injured by what I said, blame it on
         Dan Graham.  He is the one who provoked the thought. :>)
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Date:         Mon, 25 Jan 1993 11:42:37 MST
From:         Usenet/Netnews Moderator <FOCMCB@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Ten Commandments.

----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
>From: cnews@umr.edu (UMR Usenet News Post)
>Subject: Re: Ten Commandments.
>Organization: University of Missouri - Rolla, Rolla, MO
>Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 03:34:06 GMT

It's interesting to note that Jesus reiterates 9 of the 10 commandments.

The only exception is the "sabbath day" (Saturday).  Today most church's
I know of meet on the "Lords's day" (Sunday).

Grace & Peace,
Scott Hayes
scotth@cs.umr.edu
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Date:         Tue, 26 Jan 1993 17:26:02 MST
From:         Usenet/Netnews Moderator <FOCMCB@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Subject:      Christian Seeking correspondence!

----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
>From: A.J.M.Lee@cen.ex.ac.uk
>Subject: Christian Seeking correspondence!
>Organization: University of Exeter, UK.
>Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 12:39:42 GMT

Hello everybody...

I am a Christian here in Exeter University in England, and I am
trying to get in touch with Christians from anywhere, to share with
and to correspond with.

Anyone interested?

Yours,

Alex.
:-)
--
Alexander Lee.  E100, Brendon, Birks, New North Road, Exeter, Devon EX4 4PH
      Tel: 0392 55719 or 423850.  E-mail:  st92ajml@uk.ac.ex.cen

       * * * * If God is for us, who can be against us? * * * *
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Organization: Young Chang R&D Institute
X-Mailer: uAccess LITE - Macintosh Release: 1.5v4
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 25 Jan 1993 14:46:49 EST
Reply-To:     timk@ycrdi.com
From:         Tim King <timk@YCRDI.COM>
Subject:      Re: Three Short Notes

Darren Provine writes:

> With all this talk about obeying the Ten Commandments, I wonder how many
> Christia participants make any effort at keeping the Fourth Commandment,
> which orders abstaining from work on Saturday.

I haven't been following the thread of which this message was a part;
however, the spirit of the commandment in question is that we should
rest every seventh day... (so as to not overwork ourselves?)  See Jesus's
comments on the sabbath as recorded by the gospel writers.  Also see
Paul's comments on holy days.  I'll get specific references if anyone
needs them.

I think that a sabbath rest, a day that is set apart to abstain from
work and be with God, is an excellect idea.  I try to not work on either
Saturday or Sunday each week and would recommend similar practice to
everyone, christian and non-christian.

-TimK

--
Tim King                  <>    |-_       A poorly-documented feature is not
timk@ycrdi.com            |     |  |      really there.  A poorly-documented
Young Chang R&D Inst.     | >  <>  |      limitation is far too present.
Makers of Kurzweil Music  |/      <>
Systems technology              *** Original material (C) 1992 J. T. King ***
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 27 Jan 1993 09:10:42 CST
Comments:     Answering received message
From:         THERESA BLACKWELL <TBLACKWL@USMCP6.BITNET>
Subject:      Don't mention the Lord...

Sheesh, Maks.  I'm beginning to think that some people in this
messed-up society really don't CARE what happens to them after they die.
This bus driver needs serious prayer.
I'm not exactly keen on calling someone down for talking about the Lord.
But, to say that doing so, endangers lives of other children is a bit
rediculous. Hey, what if that bus driver had been in a wreck minutes
after his/her statement was made??? Then, I'll bet, that person would
have more than likely thought twice about what had just came out of his
mouth.  Many people, until they're threatened with their own safety,
don't even realize there IS a God.  Maybe The Lord can change that bus
driver's mind.  Meanwhile, we can pray for that guy/gal, huh?
Theresa

 * <TBLACKWL@USMCP6.BITNET>
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Date:         Mon, 25 Jan 1993 10:14:18 -0500
From:         BENSON@POKVMCR3.VNET.IBM.COM
Subject:      re: Pat Robertson

From: S. Michael Benson  -POKVMCR3(BENSON)  IBMMAIL(USIB4B43)
                         -benson@pokvmcr3.vnet.ibm.com
                         -MVS System Services Design

I have purposely steered clear of posting on this subject but I ran
across this passage of scripture that IMHO is relevant.

"It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others
out of good will.  The latter do so in love, knowing that I am put here
for the defence of the gospel.  The former preach Christ out of selfish
ambition, not sincerely, supposing that they can stir up trouble for me
while I am in chains.  But what does it matter?  The important thing
is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is
preached.  And because of this I rejoice."  Philippians 1:15-18

I don't personally know the motives of Pat.  I don't particularly care for
his style.  But if he is preaching Christ then I rejoice.  I am sure that
many have accepted Christ under his ministry.

                                                              .
Regards,              -IBM Corp.                  (914)296-6199
Mike                  -P.O. Box 950  Y12A/922-1      8+296-6199
                      -Poughkeepsie, NY 12602  FAX(914)296-5155
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Date:         Mon, 25 Jan 1993 14:16:00 EST
From:         "DRCV06::GRAHAM" <GRAHAM%DRCV06.decnet@DRCVAX.AF.MIL>
Subject:      Agreeing against Rush L.

Mr. Weberg, I think that perhaps you misunderstand the difference between
satire to make a point and mindless ridicule.  Rush Limbaugh has never,
since I first heard him about four years ago, used satire or sarcasm in a
constructive or analogous manner, he is hateful, vindictive and slings
wphethets with great rancor.

If he has a civil tongue, he has never deigned to display it.  His opinions
are so doctrinaire that his agenda is more than obvious from the beginning
of his program to its conclusion.

I agree completely with Mr. Provine that Christians need to consider
carefully that which they patronize.

Kerry, you have said before that we just don't understand Rush's humor.  If
you can honestly say that Christians should endorse such venomous humor, I
sincerely believe you are misled on this topic.

Calling the Pharisees a brood of vipers was sarcastic of Jesus, but it was
neither cruel nor ridicule nor vituperation, it was an analogy to point out
the truth.  Rush L. does not care about truth, or he would have some on his
show.  The fact that he has so many followers is a sad commentary indeed on
the ability of the American public to discern truth from fantasy.

Dan Graham
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Date:         Thu, 21 Jan 1993 14:38:24 EST
From:         Lon Mendelsohn <LMENDELS@CMS.CC.WAYNE.EDU>
Subject:      Re: God Recognizing Marriage
              <FOCMCB@asuvm.inre.asu.edu>

My understanding is that the ceremony was quite simple.  In the presence
of witnesses, the bride said to the groom, "I am your woman" and the
groom said to the bride, "I am your man."  Basically, the bride and
groom declared to one another that they no longer belonged to themselves.
i am also reasonably sure that the couple wasn't considered married until
consummation, but I am not positive.

Shalom,

Lon Mendelsohn
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Date:         Fri, 22 Jan 1993 08:16:35 +0000
From:         Leo W <Leo_W@QM.CIRCA.UFL.EDU>
Subject:      Scripturette 1/22

God:

"The Lord does what he wants, in heaven and on earth, in the seas and the deep
oceans" (Psalm 135:6).

The Lord Jesus Christ:

"The Son does whatever the Father does" (John 5:19).

"ALL MEN SHOULD HONOR THE SON EVEN AS THEY HONOR THE FATHER" (John 5:23 KJV).


Yours in Christ Jesus,
Leo

Scriptures quoted from the International Children's Bible (ICB), New Century
Version, copyright 1986, 1988 by Word Publishing, Dallas, Texas 75039.  Used
by permission.
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Date:         Thu, 21 Jan 1993 09:16:25 MST
From:         Usenet/Netnews Moderator <FOCMCB@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: tithes

----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
>From: cnews@umr.edu (UMR Usenet News Post)
>Subject: Re: tithes
>Organization: University of Missouri - Rolla, Rolla, MO
>Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1993 15:36:23 GMT

There has been some discussion on tithe being 10% to which I agree.
I also agree that the ancient Jews gave about 20% of their income a
year to God.  My understanding is that the 10% (tithe) was income for
the temple and anything over and above that was part of the offering
(animal and grain sacrifices, etc.).

Grace & Peace
Scott
scotth@cs.umr.edu
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Date:         Mon, 25 Jan 1993 20:40:50 -0500
From:         "Michael A. Kline" <MKLINE@VDH.BITNET>
Subject:      Don't mention the Lord

From an October 29, 1991 700 Club. I guess after the telethon, they are
having reruns.

Albuquerque, New Mexico - Christine, a 16 year old girl who rides the
   school bus, was talking recently to her schoolmates about the Lord.
   Her bus driver warned her that she was not allowed to discuss religion
   or politics on the bus. When she continued to share her faith, her
   Vice Principal warned her that "Talking about the Lord was ENDANGERING
   THE LIVES of the other students on the bus."
     The ACLJ has been alerted.

Sheesh, now even politics.

Maks
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Date:         Mon, 25 Jan 1993 09:26:40 CST
From:         Russ Neumeier <russn@SSEC.WISC.EDU>
Subject:      Praying in tongues (was Re: centering prayer...)
              93 7:11 pm

Everyone,

There have been a couple of posts on the thread of 'centering prayer' in
which people have mentioned praying in tongues.  I'm not at all familiar
with this, but am very curious to learn more about it.  If this topic is
not appropriate for this list please e-mail me.

Thanks,

Russ

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Russ Neumeier       | I'm not ashamed to let you know, I want this light in
russn@ssec.wisc.edu | me to show.  I'm not ashamed to speak the name....
SSEC, UW-Madison    | of Jesus Christ ---- The Newsboys
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Via:        UK.AC.CAM.PPSW; 21 JAN 93 17:06:44 GMT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 21 Jan 1993 17:07:00 +0000
From:         "G.J. McCaughan" <gjm11@CUS.CAM.AC.UK>
Subject:      evolution and things

Joe Cartna <cartnaj@eagle.safb.af.mil> posted a reply to a mail message
I'd sent him on the subject of evolution. I sent a reply to CHRISTIA via
Usenet, but it seems (like all my other replies :-( ) to have been eaten.

I haven't time to reconstruct it right now; but I will reply soon. Just
explaining why no reply has appeared yet...

               Gareth McCaughan
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Date:         Tue, 26 Jan 1993 17:32:34 MST
From:         Usenet/Netnews Moderator <FOCMCB@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Last night's Rush Limbaugh Show

----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
>From: jlaplant@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John R Laplante)
>Subject: Re: Last night's Rush Limbaugh Show
>Organization: The Ohio State University
>Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 22:00:14 GMT

One thing i like about Rush is that he makes everyone else (other
conservatives -- even Reagan!) look so reasonable, calm, and
worth listening to, rather than being demonized (e.g. George Will,
William F. Buckley)
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Date:         Tue, 26 Jan 1993 05:29:29 MST
From:         Usenet/Netnews Moderator <FOCMCB@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Movies & Ratings

----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
>From: cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Mike Cobb)
>Subject: Re: Movies & Ratings
>Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
>Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 02:40:05 GMT

In line with what Darren said, wasn't Jesus a republican?  (I am a republican,
and hold to that party because it is most in line with the views that I hold,
but when a candidate from another party comes along that is more in line with
what I think is right, I'll vote for him or her, regardless of party).

MAC
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Date:         Mon, 25 Jan 1993 10:04:02 CST
From:         Yvette Traylor <YST1@DCCCDBIT.BITNET>
Subject:      Giving Your Last...

One Sunday while I was visiting my Sisters church, after the offering
was taken up, the pastor asked for everyone to give an extra $10.00
to help complete the new choir stand they were building. Well at this
particular time, my husband and I were seperated because we did not
have a place to stay right after I finished college. This should let
you know that we didn't have hardly any money. But, anyway I was
sitting there in the church and the first thing that entered my mind
was 'This ain't my church.'  But that excuse didn't make me feel
better. And so I started talking to myself again, and this time I
said 'If I do have $10.00, then it is my LAST $10.00!" And no sooner
than I said that to myself, the pastor said, "Even if it is your last
$10.00, you give it to the Lord's work...." Well, I looked in my
purse and I said 'If I have anything less than $10.00, then I am not
giving anything.' Well I had exactly $10.00, so I put it in the
offering plate and left.
That week, we received a big income tax check, which we were not
surposed to, and that week my husband found us a nice house to
rent, and we were all able to get back together again.
God is so good, there have been a lot of more wonderful things that
God has done in my life, he is "Awesome".

Yvette
"Do something good for someone today, even if it is leaving them alone."
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Date:         Tue, 26 Jan 1993 06:26:12 MST
From:         Madge McBurney <ISPMOM@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Subject:      Strange mail

To all,

I'm not sure why we're receiving all this mail from other lists but
I'm checking into it now.  It may be wise for some of you to set your
option to NOMAIL for today, or until this problem is cleared up.

Sorry for the inconvenience,

Christia co-owner   Bitnet:   ispmom@asuacad
Madge McBurney      Internet: ispmom@asuvm.inre.asu.edu
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Organization: Emory University - Atlanta, Georgia, USA
X-Acknowledge-To: <LIBSAC@EMUVM1>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 21 Jan 1993 08:13:41 EST
From:         "SHELBY A. CROSS" <LIBSAC@EMUVM1.BITNET>
Subject:      RE: PRAYER REQUEST-STEVE C.

Dear Steve,

I'm just writing to let you know that we will be in agreement in prayer for
Stephanie.  Because Christ took our sickness from the stripes that He bore
for us, we believe complete healing for Stephanie.  Be encouraged.

Dear Heavenly Father,
We thank You and praise You for all your many blessings and Your faithfulness
towards us.  We lift up to You Stephanie and ask that You totally heal her
from the top of her head to the soles of her feet in Jesus Name.  We come
against this depressed spirit in Jesus Name and command you satan not to
torment her any more.  We apply the blood of Jesus against you in Jesus Name.
Father we ask that You send Your angels of protection and warfare to do bat-
tle against any contrary spirits in Jesus Mighty Name.  Satan we command you
to leave in Jesus Name.  We praise You Father in advance for Stephanie's
healing and give You all the praise, honor, and glory in Jesus Name.
We ask You precious Holy Spirit to engulf Stephanie with Your love, joy,
and peace.  We ask You Father to use Steve and his girl friend to minister
to Stephanie and to be an encouragement to her.  We praise You that You have
put them here to help her.  Give them Your wisdom and understanding to be
sensitive to the Holy Spirit to say and do those things that He wants done
for her.  In Jesus Name we pray.  Amen and Amen.

Your sister in Christ,

Shelby--
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Date:         Mon, 25 Jan 1993 16:44:23 -0600
Reply-To:     Forum for Physics Teachers <PHYS-L@UWF.BITNET>
Comments:     To: PHYS-L%UWF.BITNET@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU
Comments:     Warning -- original Sender: tag was PHYS-L@UWF
From:         Lou Bedell <PHBEDELL@MERLIN.NLU.EDU>
Subject:      Student Teacher Evaluation Instruments

I am on an ad hoc committee of the faculty senate to find a better instrument
in the evaluation of teachers by the students.  The Louisiana Board of Regents
and the Louisiana Board of Trustees for Colleges and Universities (one of the
management boards for the three different college systems in Louisiana) have
policies that require student-teacher evaluations.  Untenured teachers are
evaluated in all their classes every semester.  Tenured faculty members are
evaluated in two classes of the professor's choice every fall semester.

We have tried to have this policy changed through the Faculty Advisory Council
to the Board of Trustees but to no avail.  Practically speaking, we have to
live with the evaluation, but we can influence the instrument and improve on
our present questionnaire that was written with faculty senate and student
government association input about 15 to 20 years ago.  Our questionnaire is
supposed to apply to teaching in all fields from Art, Foreign Languages, ...
English, Speech, Theater, ... Mathematics, Physics, Chemistry, Biology, ...
Aviation, Construction, Home Economics, etc.  Some of the questions are
totally ridiculous.

I am aware of the Purdue Cafeteria Evaluation system which is created on the
computer with individual colleges, departments, and faculty choosing the
questions to be used on their questionnaires.  This system allows each
professor to create a unique instrument applicable to that particular class
and subject.  This is one of the systems, which we will be considering.  We
(the faculty senate) recommended this system about 10 to 15 years ago and were
told that our computer "couldn't" do it.  I think it was a lame excuse (and
from what I know about computers, probably a false statement).  We now have a
reasonable and new administration with all new people in the offices of
President, Provost and VP for Academics, VP for Business Affairs, and 4 out of
the 6 Deans.  We feel that we can now influence a change in this area.

I have two requests for information:

1.  a.  If you use the Purdue Cafeteria system, how do you like it?
    b.  What are the advantages and disadvantages?

2.  a.  Are there other systems available?
    b.  How can I get information about them?
    c.  How do you like it?
    d   What are the advantages and disadvantages?

I believe that your answers might also be of interest to the entire PHYS-L
list but if you wish to answer privately I will respect your privacy.  I will
only share your answers with our ad hoc committee here on our campus.

Thanks.

  Lou

 Louis (Lou) R. Bedell
 Physics Department                    Northeast Louisiana University
 Monroe, LA 71209-0580   (318)-342-1941 (office) (318)-325-4103 (home)
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