HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 21:09:29 GMT
From: news@cbnewsh.att.com
Newsgroups: comp.society.privacy
Subject: Re: Teletrac
Organization: Big Brother Is Watching You..
X-Submissions-To: comp-privacy@pica.army.mil
X-Administrivia-To: comp-privacy-request@pica.army.mil
X-Computer-Privacy-Digest: Volume 1, Issue 084, Message 6 of 8

Re: transponders on cars - you don't need it - the license plate is enough.
Optical character recognition technology is about good enough to read
license plates today, and keeps getting faster as algorithms improve
and number-crunching chip speed doubles every year or two.
So all they need is a good video camera and a reader.
The main advantage of transponders is that the stationary equipment is
likely to be cheaper, and you can force the car owners to buy the transponders.

[Moderator's Note:  I have no idea who sent this.  All I got was that the
news program sent it.  ._dennis.]
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 21:59:25 GMT
From: Ben Gross <gross@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.society.privacy
Subject: Re: Computer access to SSN and bank accounts: 48hrs episode
Reply-To: b-gross@uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
X-Submissions-To: comp-privacy@pica.army.mil
X-Administrivia-To: comp-privacy-request@pica.army.mil
X-Computer-Privacy-Digest: Volume 1, Issue 086, Message 2 of 8

Did anyone tape this that would be willing to loan their copy out for a few
days?
Ben

-- 
! Mail to: b-gross@uiuc.edu       /!\    NeXT mail: gross@sumter.cso.uiuc.edu !
! No matter where you go, there you are.   --Buckaroo Bonzai--                !
!-------------> Reality is only for those who lack imagination. <-------------!
!-----------> Disclaimer:  I am the Lorax, I speak for the trees. <-----------!
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 01:45:00 CDT
From: Jim Mccoy <mccoy@aristotle.ils.nwu.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.society.privacy
Subject: Re: Blockbuster & video rental records
Reply-To: mccoy@ils.nwu.edu
Organization: Computer Privacy Digest
X-Submissions-To: comp-privacy@pica.army.mil
X-Administrivia-To: comp-privacy-request@pica.army.mil
X-Computer-Privacy-Digest: Volume 1, Issue 087, Message 9 of 11


In article <comp-privacy1.84.4@pica.army.mil>, Mike Johnston writes:
> 
> Recently my local corner video store shutdown and I was forced to find
> a membership elsewhere. Since the only other store of consequence in my
> town was Blockbuster Video, I decided to go there. [...]
> 
> [Regarding the memebership info he was given...] Imbedded
> with the standard legalese about being responsible for rented tapes and
> such is a clause that states, from memory:
> 
> 	Member grants Blockbuster Video the right to release all information
> 	generated by or through the use of the membership card.
> 
> In other words, they can give out my rental records to someone without
> permission. This is disturbing.
> 

You might want to check out the Video Privacy Protection Act of 1988.  I
think that the latest reference to this I have seen is in _Privacy for
Sale_ (by Jeffrey Rothfeder, a must read for people who are interested in
this stuff...).  I believe that it prevents stores from releasing just this
sort of information, but perhaps someone more familiar with it could
clarify this point...

jim
-- 
 ------------------------------< Jim McCoy >------------------------------------
j-mccoy@nwu.edu                     |  "I'd love to stay and chat, but I'm
mccoy@ils.nwu.edu                   |   having an old friend for dinner..."
#include <disclaimer.h>             |              -Dr. Hannibal Lector
 -----------------------<"To thine own self be true">--------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 17:53:45 GMT
From: Wm Randolph Franklin <wrf@ecse.rpi.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.society.privacy
Subject: Re: Address required on checks
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
X-Submissions-To: comp-privacy@pica.army.mil
X-Administrivia-To: comp-privacy-request@pica.army.mil
X-Computer-Privacy-Digest: Volume 1, Issue 086, Message 8 of 8


In article <comp-privacy1.85.1@pica.army.mil> on Thu, 24 Sep 92 14:02:46 GMT,
amdunn@mongrel.UUCP (Andrew M. Dunn) writes:

  > Of course, cash will always be accepted without your address on it.

Oh?  

1. Service Merchandise, a local catalog store gets quite unfriendly when
I pay in cash.  They've told me they must have a name.  (So I give them
'Mario Cuomo').

2. Then there's Radio Shack.

3. You must give id when spending over $10K with one merchant in, I
believe, one year, or the merchant can get in serious trouble.

4. I've heard stories about IRS offices refusing to accept cash, though
I can't vouch for them myself.

There is one loophole however, which is probably still open.  You can
buy money orders anonymously, put whatever name you want on them, and
then use them to pay people who refuse cash.
-- 
Wm. Randolph Franklin,  wrf@ecse.rpi.edu, (518) 276-6077;  Fax: -6261
ECSE Dept., 6026 JEC, Rensselaer Polytechnic Inst, Troy NY, 12180 USA
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 22:31:50 GMT
From: "Michael E. Adams" <madams@ecst.csuchico.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.society.privacy
Subject: Re: Computer access to SSN and bank accounts: 48hrs episode
Organization: California State University, Chico
X-Submissions-To: comp-privacy@pica.army.mil
X-Administrivia-To: comp-privacy-request@pica.army.mil
X-Computer-Privacy-Digest: Volume 1, Issue 085, Message 2 of 10

>got 2 people's names and addresses and were able to look up
>their SSN and their credit cards and bank balances
>via a computer at a private eye's office?
>
>Can anybody with a terminal and a modem do the same thing,

Yep.  Anyone can! Just get an account with TRW, CBI or some other information
dealer, pay your monthly bill, and YOU can find out all about MY credit!
You can see who else is doing credit checks on me (handy if you need
to know if I'm talking to some OTHER salesman down the street), you can
find my employers name, where I used to live, how much I owe on my 
home, etc.

As for the bank balances, I'm not sure about that one.  I don't know
how to do it, but I do know that if there is a way to get the information
somone is selling it.

And that's where the REAL problem is.  Information collection is not 
bad as long as EVERYONE has access to it.  But currently, only people who are
in the 'right job', wealthy, or powerfull can have regular access to 
the data that is collected on ALL of us.  

This sets an uneven playing field in all kinds of negotiations.  
Ex. If I want to hire you, and you say you won't work for less than $xYY, 
and I know your in debt up to your eyeballs, 
then I may call your bluff and sweat you down to $YY.

Privacy is a myth.  What we common people need is access!

-- 
Hi! I am a .signature virus. Copy me into your .signature to join in!
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 92 16:19:20 MDT
From: Tom Wicklund <wicklund@intellistor.com>
Newsgroups: comp.society.privacy
Subject: Re: Teletrac
Organization: Computer Privacy Digest
X-Submissions-To: comp-privacy@pica.army.mil
X-Administrivia-To: comp-privacy-request@pica.army.mil
X-Computer-Privacy-Digest: Volume 1, Issue 087, Message 6 of 11

In article <comp-privacy1.84.6@pica.army.mil> you write:
>Re: transponders on cars - you don't need it - the license plate is enough.
>Optical character recognition technology is about good enough to read
>license plates today, and keeps getting faster as algorithms improve
>and number-crunching chip speed doubles every year or two.
>So all they need is a good video camera and a reader.
>The main advantage of transponders is that the stationary equipment is
>likely to be cheaper, and you can force the car owners to buy the transponders.

I was working at a company that put together a response to a request for
proposals from the South Korean government to do this.  The idea is that,
over the highway, arches hold TV cameras aimed down to see cars' licence
plates.  The system was to read them, match them against a database,
and if the plate showed up, alert the cop shop a few km down (no junctions
in the way!).  An unreadable plate would be sent to the cops for manual
reading.

Any such system could, of course, easily be adapted to time-stamp and log
*every* car, although the proposal didn't ask for that.

This was 1991.  Big Brother is here (well, *there*), boys and girls.
It was buildable, although it would require some tuning to get the
readability rate up against mud, fog, variable lighting, and whatnot.

(I wasn't directly involved, and didn't want to be.)
-- 
	-Colin
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 92 22:29:20 CDT
From: "J. Philip Miller" <phil@wubios.wustl.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.society.privacy
Subject: SSN & Bush
Organization: Computer Privacy Digest
X-Submissions-To: comp-privacy@pica.army.mil
X-Administrivia-To: comp-privacy-request@pica.army.mil
X-Computer-Privacy-Digest: Volume 1, Issue 084, Message 7 of 8

As another issue about disclosure of SSN, I offer the experience of my 8th
grade daughter.  It appears that our esteemed President will visit her school
on Monday.  She has the opportunity to be accredited as a member of the press
(as reporter for the school newspaper) but to receive that accrediation she
has to submit her full name, date of birth and SSN!

Now if I were paranoid I would recall that on my 1040 there is a link between
her and me and that the Secret Service might retreive my file and deny her
access :-)

-phil

-- 
     J. Philip Miller, Professor, Division of Biostatistics, Box 8067
	 Washington University Medical School, St. Louis MO 63110
     phil@wubios.WUstl.edu - Internet  (314) 362-3617 [362-2694(FAX)]
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 92 18:22:41 CDT
From: "K. Kadow" <technews@iitmax.iit.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.society.privacy
Subject: Re: A pint of blood
Organization: Computer Privacy Digest
X-Submissions-To: comp-privacy@pica.army.mil
X-Administrivia-To: comp-privacy-request@pica.army.mil
X-Computer-Privacy-Digest: Volume 1, Issue 084, Message 2 of 8

> 
> Computer Privacy Digest Thu, 24 Sep 92              Volume 1 : Issue: 083
> 
> This has to be taken in the context of the case before the court. If
> you are in court because it is alleged you have mistreated or sexually
> abused your children (as an example) then the court may well take your
> child away from you. The question would be the reasonableness of the
> requirement and/or the relationship it has to the case in dispute. If
> you are under the jurisdiction of the court you will obey the court or
> you will appeal for relief from the court's rulings -- you will not,
> however simply be disobedient or in contempt of the court. I think it
> would be deemed reasonable for the court to require some universal
> form of identification (such as SSN) when attempting to adjudicate a
> complex legal matter involving a large number of people making
> financial claims. Likewise if the court is hearing a paternity case to
> detirmine if you can be identified as the father of a child the court
> may well order you to have blood drawn and tested. So to answer your
> question, yes the court can demand your child and your blood if those
> requests are considered reasonable and withstand appeal. 
> 
> > The whole point at issue here is whether the court is legally
> > authorized to ask for your SSN, just as any other organization may or
> > may not be legally authorized to ask.
> 

There are some questions that private organizations are not legally authorized
to ask (e.g. virginity, age, political/religious affiliation) and some
questions that even the court cannot ask. I sincerely hope that the court
is NOT authorized to order you to undergo a DNA test or blood test to prove
paternity (or settle any civil suit). They are certainly authorized to ask
your blood TYPE (which in many cases is on the birth certificate, driver's
license, or other "public record", and which can _disprove_ paternity) but
can the court ORDER any sort of "invasive" testing in either civil or
criminal cases?
Date: Sat, 03 Oct 92 12:30:42 EDT
From: Sean Petty <seanp@undr.org>
Newsgroups: comp.society.privacy
Subject: FOIA Request for the FDA?
Reply-To: Sean Petty <undr!seanp@gvls1.gvl.unisys.com>
Organization: The Underground - Pennsylvania
X-Submissions-To: comp-privacy@pica.army.mil
X-Administrivia-To: comp-privacy-request@pica.army.mil
X-Computer-Privacy-Digest: Volume 1, Issue 087, Message 11 of 11



        I am presently in the position that I need to exercise the FOIA
        to get some information from the Food and Drug Administration
        about an approved but questionable drug.  What I would like to
        know is if someone has a generic request form that applies to
        the FDA, or one that they have used in the past.

        I would like to get any and all information about this drug from
        them, so anyone who can offer any information, files, etc. would
        be greatly appreciated.

        Sean

---
Sean Petty                           undr!seanp@tredysvr.Tredydev.Unisys.COM
ICBMnet: 39'58'12"N 75'84'26"W       seanp@undr.org
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 92 08:32:11 GMT
From: James Hightower <jamesh@netcom.com>
Newsgroups: comp.society.privacy
Subject: Re: Computer access to SSN and bank accounts: 48hrs episode
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
X-Submissions-To: comp-privacy@pica.army.mil
X-Administrivia-To: comp-privacy-request@pica.army.mil
X-Computer-Privacy-Digest: Volume 1, Issue 085, Message 4 of 10

joe@babel.ho.att.com (Joseph M Orost) writes:

>Did anybody see the 48hrs episode on CBS on 9/23/92 where they
>got 2 people's names and addresses and were able to look up
>their SSN and their credit cards and bank balances
>via a computer at a private eye's office?

>Any idea how they did that?

>Can anybody with a terminal and a modem do the same thing,
>or is this some kind of "all people" database that
>one can subscribe to?

I didn't see the show, however I do know that that sort of thing can
be done by pulling an "atlas" report from Trans Union. Since the report
contains no credit information, you do not need to be a credit granter
to get this report. All you need is a modem and a TU account. TRW and
Equifax provide similer reports.

 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
James Hightower		jamesh@netcom.COM 	...Don't try this at home!
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 13:47:21 GMT
From: hgpeach@ms.uky.edu (Harold Peach)
Newsgroups: comp.society.privacy
Subject: Re: Computer access to SSN and bank accounts: 48hrs episode
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences
X-Submissions-To: comp-privacy@pica.army.mil
X-Administrivia-To: comp-privacy-request@pica.army.mil
X-Computer-Privacy-Digest: Volume 1, Issue 085, Message 5 of 10

Joseph M Orost <joe@babel.ho.att.com> writes:

>Did anybody see the 48hrs episode on CBS on 9/23/92 where they
>got 2 people's names and addresses and were able to look up
>their SSN and their credit cards and bank balances
>via a computer at a private eye's office?

Yes, I was really bored by the whole thing.  I expected to see
something new and exciting.  All they did was use services/methods
that have been around for years to try and scare the more naive
viewers.

>Any idea how they did that?

Anyone who is a credit bureau member can find out most everything
they did using that "computer."

>Can anybody with a terminal and a modem do the same thing,
>or is this some kind of "all people" database that
>one can subscribe to?

Anyone who is a credit bureau member can do what they did from a
terminal.  ANYONE can go to their local credit bureau and for a
reasonable fee get a paper copy of the same info.

At my previous job, we ran several credit reports per week, by
computer (an IBM PCjr!).  With an SSN you can find out all of
the rest.  The system will even let you know if the SSN is from
a valid range, making it hard to get by with a fake one.  
With a name, you can usually find the person's
SSN and then get the rest.  In today's world, it is virtually
impossible for anyone who maintains an AVERAGE lifestyle to get
lost from anyone for more than a month or two.

If you have a telephone, credit card, rent or buy a place to live,
have a car, etc. you just about can't get lost for long.  Worrying
about giving out your SSN is moot, it is too late.  I can (could when
I had access to the services) find out almost anyone's SSN with
just your name, or probably just from your address.
-- 
Harold G. Peach, Jr.       ><>       N4FLZ       _%       hgpeach@s.ms.uky.edu
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 21:14:09 EDT
From: "Michael P. Deignan" <kd1hz@anomaly.sbs.risc.net>
Newsgroups: comp.society.privacy
Subject: Bank balances
Reply-To: kd1hz@anomaly.sbs.risc.net
Organization: Computer Privacy Digest
X-Submissions-To: comp-privacy@pica.army.mil
X-Administrivia-To: comp-privacy-request@pica.army.mil
X-Computer-Privacy-Digest: Volume 1, Issue 086, Message 5 of 8

-> As for the bank balances, I'm not sure about that one.  I don't know
-> how to do it, but I do know that if there is a way to get the information
-> somone is selling it.

Rather easy, actually. All you need is a bank account number. Call the bank
and say "I'm Mr. X doing a credit check on Ms. Y - her account number is
ZZZ". Usually, the drone on the other end will say something to the effect
of "Yes, Mr. X.... Ms. Y opened her account on MM/DD/YY, and currently has
a balance in the [high,mid,low] [single, double, triple, etc.] digits.

You can then go to the person in question and give them a rough idea of
how much they have in their account (i.e. "ah, looks like you have a
couple thousand...") without giving an actual number (which generally
flucuates for most people, anyway.)

MD
-- 
--  Michael P. Deignan                      / Sex is hereditary. If your 
--  Domain: mpd@anomaly.sbs.com            /  parents never had it, chances 
--    UUCP: ...!uunet!rayssd!anomaly!mpd  /   are you won't either...
-- Telebit: +1 401 455 0347              /
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 05:19:42 GMT
From: Dave Grabowski <dcg5662@hertz.njit.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.society.privacy
Subject: Re: Computer access to SSN and bank accounts: 48hrs episode
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.
X-Submissions-To: comp-privacy@pica.army.mil
X-Administrivia-To: comp-privacy-request@pica.army.mil
X-Computer-Privacy-Digest: Volume 1, Issue 085, Message 3 of 10

In article <comp-privacy1.83.8@pica.army.mil> joe@babel.ho.att.com (Joseph M Orost) writes:
>Did anybody see the 48hrs episode on CBS on 9/23/92 where they
>got 2 people's names and addresses and were able to look up
>their SSN and their credit cards and bank balances
>via a computer at a private eye's office?
>
>Any idea how they did that?
>
>Can anybody with a terminal and a modem do the same thing,
>or is this some kind of "all people" database that
>one can subscribe to?
>
>                                regards,
>                                joe
>

  I can't say how THEY did it, but I can tell you how I used to do it.
There are many not-so-moral people working at cerdit bureaus (TRW,
Trans-Union, Equifax, etc). It's not all that hard to obtain passwords
for their on-line services, and then it's only a matter of dialing it up
(not directly, they have nationwide ANI), and pulling anyone's credit
report: all you need is a SSN or part of a name & address.

-Dave
-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kappa Xi Kappa - Over & Above!                         dcg5662@hertz.njit.edu
9 Sussex Ave., Newark, NJ (car theft capital USA)   70721.2222@compuserve.com
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 9:46:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Dave Niebuhr, BNL CCD, 516-282-3093" <NIEBUHR@bnlcl6.bnl.gov>
Newsgroups: comp.society.privacy
Subject: SSNs and Drivers Liscenses in NY
Organization: Computer Privacy Digest
X-Submissions-To: comp-privacy@pica.army.mil
X-Administrivia-To: comp-privacy-request@pica.army.mil
X-Computer-Privacy-Digest: Volume 1, Issue 086, Message 6 of 8

My wife recently received her invitation to renew her driver's liscense
and the only time an SSN is required is for a commercial liscense according
to the instructions on the card's back.

This is surprising since NY seems to want to know everything about a person
including visits to the throne room :-).

Dave

Dave Niebuhr      Internet: niebuhr@bnl.gov / Bitnet: niebuhr@bnl
Brookhaven National Laboratory Upton, NY 11973  (516)-282-3093
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 92 14:02:46 GMT
From: amdunn@mongrel.UUCP (Andrew M. Dunn)
Newsgroups: comp.society.privacy
Subject: Re: Address required on checks
Organization: A. Dunn Systems Corporation, Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
X-Submissions-To: comp-privacy@pica.army.mil
X-Administrivia-To: comp-privacy-request@pica.army.mil
X-Computer-Privacy-Digest: Volume 1, Issue 085, Message 1 of 10

In article <comp-privacy1.78.1@pica.army.mil> James Zuchelli <claris!qm!James_Zuchelli@decwrl.dec.com> writes:
>
>Last year when I bought some books at a local community college they insisted
>that I put my street address on the check. (I have my P.O. Box printed on the
>checks.)  I don't like giving out my address yet they refused to take the
>check unless it had an address.
>
>At one point they said they needed so "when your check bounces we can come
>find you."
>
>How much right do you have to not give out your phyusical address, how much
>right do the school bookstores have to refuse your check if you street address
>isn't on it.
>


They can decide what substitutes for cash currency they will let you
use to purchase goods from them.  If they don't like it, you can't use
it.

Of course, cash will always be accepted without your address on it.

-- 
:-------------------------------------------------------------------------:
:  Andy Dunn (amdunn@mongrel.uucp)  ({uunet...}!xenitec!mongrel!amdunn)   :
:  "AT&T thinks Usenet is an Underground organization" - are we really?   :
:-------------------------------------------------------------------------:
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 18:25:50 GMT
From: Khan <tmkk@uiuc.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.society.privacy
Subject: Re: Address required on checks
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
X-Submissions-To: comp-privacy@pica.army.mil
X-Administrivia-To: comp-privacy-request@pica.army.mil
X-Computer-Privacy-Digest: Volume 1, Issue 087, Message 8 of 11


In article <comp-privacy1.86.8@pica.army.mil> Wm Randolph Franklin <wrf@ecse.rpi.edu> writes:
>
>1. Service Merchandise, a local catalog store gets quite unfriendly when
>I pay in cash.  They've told me they must have a name.  (So I give them
>'Mario Cuomo').
>
>2. Then there's Radio Shack.

This usually isn't the direct fault of SM or RS. Rather, it's the
personal insecurity of the clerk who, when faced with a rejection to
his/her request for marketing information, becomes defensive and
sometimes even hostile.

I am in the habit of refusing to give out my address when making
purchases at these types of stores. I've seen a wide range of responses.
Often, the clerk feels the need to "explain" why they are asking for my
address after I tell them I don't want to give it.

The most extreme reaction I ever received was from a very attractive
young woman in a (now defunct) small video+electronics store chain. She
became VERY distraught when I refused to provide my name and address for
a $30 cash purchase. Finally, she made up a name (she somehow came up
with "Polk," even though she spelled it "Poke") and wrote it down on the
receipt. I'll probably get flamed for saying this, but it was my
impression that this particular young lady was not at all used to having
men say "no" to her requests. ;-)

My point is, the hostility and other reactions you get from clerks are
from the clerks themselves. RS definitely does not tell its employees
"if they won't give their name, cuss 'em out!" ;-)