HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Date: Thu,  8 Oct 1992 21:52:38 -0400 
From: "Joseph E. Beck" <jb8n+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Missed Move Silently Results
	<1992Oct5.185126.26874@meaddata.com>
Distribution: na



>A thief is the best individual class available.  Play them like a
>survivor NOT like the party's cannon fodder.

I have to disagree strongly with this.  I like thieves, but if I want
to play someone powerful I'd take priests or mages.  We were
discussing who was a party's best fighter at 12th level (or any level past
7th). The argument centered around whether priests or mages were
better (fighters and thieves were ignored).  But wait a
minutes...mages and priests have spells that are very useful *outside*
of combat too, making them the most useful people out of combat.  

With a thief, you're the 2nd worst in hand to hand, have the worst
saving throw table, have the 2nd worst  HP die, don't have spell use,
and have abilities that are countered/duplicated by magic of 1st/2nd
level.  Doesn't sound very powerful to me.  

We're running a slightly different d&d campaign.  Thieves get d8's for
HP and use the cleric attack table, clerics get d6's for HP and use
the thief attack table.  In addition thief abilities start at higher
percentages.  Having thieves that actually fight and with abilities that
actually work at low levels balances them somewhat better with mages
and priests. 

	joe
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: rothwell@bach.udel.edu (James C. Rothwell)
Subject: house-rules
Summary: rogues and priests, strength
Organization: University of Delaware
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 12:23:37 GMT

I've been reading the various threads recently, and have some house-rules
that may provide some slight game-balance ideas. <NOOOOO!  NOT THE *gb*
WORD>.  

In our campaigns, we thought about the general roles of rogues and priests
(yes, 2nd. ed.), and decided that in general, even adventuring priests
fight/brawl much less often than rogues do.  So we switched their THAC0
tables, and hit dice.  Our reasoning went something like: 1) rogues depend
on their wits, speed, and stealth, but know that there will always be
dead-ends with the watch just behind, (or jealous/enraged spouses for
bards), so they have great incentive to study weapon skills every day for
at least a little while;  2) priests study some mundane weapon skills, but
also rhetoric and spells as weapons, and so have less time devoted to
physical combat skills.  This is our ruling, but any comments are welcome.
We had also considered using the priest tables and HD for both priests and
rogues, rogue tables for wizards, and wizard tables for experienced
ordinary people (blacksmiths, foresters, etc.), as most people do not have
classes, but do have apprentice/journyman/master status and abilities.

We also looked at the Ability Scores for characters, and noticed that
strength has percentiles for classes with it as a prime requisite
(warriors), but that other classes do not get such bonuses for their prime
requisites.  Our solution was to do away with strength percentiles, and
redo the strength table with 18  as the maximum and adjusting ability
modifiers accordingly.  I'm not going to include the adjustments here, as
it should be up to each DM how the modifiers would best balance.  If you
want a copy of our chart, send a message via email to me.  Again, all
comments are welcome.

-- 
_________________________________________________________________________
James Rothwell             |   There are three types of mathematicians:
rothwell@brahms.udel.edu   |   Those who can count, and those who can't.

Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: ccoprdj@prism.gatech.EDU (Jorge Diaz)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Trolls' regeneration
Date: 8 Oct 92 21:35:57 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

In article <BvqEEx.GJD@cs.dal.ca> lazarus@ug.cs.dal.ca (Chuck Turner) writes:

>>>Each limb of the troll will continue to fight, or attempt to return to the
>>>body for a period of 24 hours, after which time it withers and dies. 

> You failed to pick up on the most important line in the above paragraph.
>  'If that finger is the *SINGLE LARGEST* remaining piece of the troll'

Ah, so "Each limb of the troll will continue to fight... for a period of
24 hours, after which time is whithers and dies" was the problem.  If
the limb is the biggest part, it will NOT whither and die, correct?

OK, another question:

If any part of a troll can regenerate a whole new body (if it's the
biggest part), and any troll can eventually regenerate fully
unless it's totally destroyed by fire or acid, does that mean that killing
a troll (taking it down to 0 hit points) using nothing but fire essentially
destroys the entire body?  Ie, there's nothing left to regenerate?

If so, a fireball that kills a character would completely destroy the
body as well, leaving *nothing*.  So the character couldn't be raised.

-- 
Jorge Diaz                       | "I want you to remember, Clark... in all
Georgia Institute of Technology  |  the years to come, in your most private
Office of Information Technology |  moments...my hand at your throat.  I want
ccoprdj@prism.gatech.edu         |  you to remember the one man who beat you."
From: Rannou@info.polymtl.ca (Patrick Rannou)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Killing Liches with Staves of the Magi, HA!!!
Date: 15 Oct 92 13:23:29 GMT
	<RANNOU.92Oct8175430@watson.info.polymtl.ca>
	<1992Oct13.210534.18131@bnr.ca>
Distribution: na
Organization: Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal, Canada

In article <1992Oct13.210534.18131@bnr.ca> dclayton@bnr.ca (Don Clayton) writes:


   |> BOOOM! "Huh, where am I... it looks like fire everywhere, and people
   |> screaming... Oh, I'm in Hell... YAY!"
   |> 
   |> End of PC.

   Wrong wrong wrong!  Read it again.  I said I threw the wand to the ground, activated
   the explosion and teleported away.  Teleport is a 1 segment spell.  There's enough
   time.  My old DM ruled that all wands and staves could be used in retributive
   strikes - his world.

Then reading it again isn;t very useful, isnt'it?

You've just performed "mild" rules-rape. Mild because, in a way, your party
& GM tought it perfectly OK.

Once I allowed all magic items to explode for 1D6 epr "level" or "charge"
in it when destroyed.

Then they had the idea to use the wizard's spell book as a wqeapon in a
desperate fight. 36D6 of damae did the job, although nobody lived to tell
of the tale afterward (fireball radius...).

Now, to prevent retributive strike from being used as a weapon in less than
extreme cases, I rules that it's not the mere breaking of the item, but an
Aco Of Will by a spellcaster. This means the spellcaster breaks the item
and STAY there to will the strike. End of PC. (unless you've got
resurrection, maybe...)

But that's only *if* you do the "dumb" thing and use the rules "as is".
It's perfectly OK to use any other rule. After all, all GMs constantly
changes rules anyways.


;-)

--
/---------------------------\
| Patrick "Paradak" Rannou. |
| Rannou@info.polymtl.ca    |
\---------------------------/
From: pluther@percy.rain.com (Pat Luther)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: 20th level mages
Date: 16 Oct 92 22:42:45 GMT
Article-I.D.: percy.Bw8KFA.1Cx
Organization: Percy's mach, Portland, OR

"Jordan M. Wolbrum" <jw67+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:

>If you were a 20th level mage, would you bother enslaving peasants? 
>That would just anger everybody enough to send the adventurers after
>you.  At this point in the mage's life he probably just wants to
>research new spells, or approach godhood, or explore other planes.  Face
>it, there's very little that mere humans can do for him, and much that
>they can do to inconvenience him.  

I do humbly beg to differ.
If it were not for all those peasants around us 20th level mages, 
who would bring the food? Wash the tower? Gather supplies? Do the dishes? 
Adventurers don't come along that often, and they're usually pretty easy 
to sweep away.  Also, many demons and other extraplanar beings like 
virgins, so it's generally a good idea to keep a couple around to 
be, uh, hospitable. A couple of charmed villagers, placed in such 
places as chief of the guards, lord of the town, or even an Innkeeper,
can serve as a very useful early morning system for potential rivals
in the area, and can even take care of adventurers before they get around
to bothering you.  And if you tax them just enough, they won't be able
to afford hiring adventurers of a caliber that could possibly challenge
you.  

Just a few ideas. Can anyone else think of more uses for a village full of
peasants?

					??pat

-- 
Pat Luther: Lex's Evil Twin
picard!pat@percy.rain.com <-- NeXTmail OK.
pluther@percy.rain.com (sometimes quicker)
luther@uop.edu (could take days, or even weeks)
"If there's nothing wrong with me, then maybe there's
 something wrong with the universe!"
From: seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu (Sea Wasp)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Hit Points and increasing levels
Date: 10 Oct 92 13:28:21 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh
Originator: seawasp@unixd1.cis.pitt.edu


	Just use the HP system in the Arduin Grimoire -- it makes low-level 
characters survivable and high level characters aren't so disgusting.

	Base hp for race + con + (1 point per point of Con over 12)
+ 5(if a fighting class) or 3 (if a part-fighter class).

	Then +1 per level if a fighting class of some kind
	1 every 2 levels if not a fighting class but one of the fairly
fit types (cleric, theif)
	1 every three levels if you're a couch-potato class (mage, sage,
psychic, etc.)

	Easy and consistent. Base HP for race are about 14 for humans,
15 for elves, 24 for trolls, etc.


                                 Sea Wasp
                                   /^\
                                   ;;;
From: wright@latcs2.lat.oz.au (Michael G. Wright)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Intelligent opponents
Date: 11 Oct 92 11:08:17 GMT
 <Qen9xn200Uh_051CEr@andrew.cmu.edu>   
 <1992Oct5.120254.13349@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu>   
 <1992Oct7.004210.15057@usage.csd.unsw.OZ.AU> <1992Oct7.015837.43652@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> <1992Oct7.132726.2515@bnr.ca
Organization: Comp Sci, La Trobe Uni, Australia

dclayton@bnr.ca (Don Clayton) writes:

>In article <1992Oct7.015837.43652@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>, blythe@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:

[Lots of nice ideas and Replies about playing Dragons removed]

Of course, if you want a Dragon that _NO_ party is going to kill (or even get
away alive from), try the Dragon of Tyr in Dark Sun. Yep, that thing's a sure
fire Munchkin killer!


-- 
Michael Wright            _-_|\     Peg- "Al, can I have a thousand bucks?" 
LaTrobe University,      /     \     Al- "Why sure honey, have you got change
Melbourne, Australia.    \_.-_*/          for a million?"
wright@latcs1.lat.oz.au       v                Married with children. :-)
From: s903609@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au (ACE)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Dark Sun
Date: 9 Oct 92 03:19:44 GMT
Organization: RMIT Computer Centre
NNTP-Posting-Host: minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au

raa@guild.socal.com (Raa Lopez) writes:

>Alright! This sounds good. I know where My next check is going to! ;^} I took a look at the Dark Sun Boxed Set and it looks pretty good. And I like the fact that stats range from 5-20 ;^} not like characters from other AD&D worlds! And The new "ESPer" class I created would make Psionics alot more powerful! Peace!

>--- Via UCI v1.11 (C-Net Amiga)

>     __ ___ ____________ __ __ __ __ __ __
>     \//___\\__  ______//_//_//_//_//_//_/ ... UUCP: raa@guild.socal.com
> _____//__//  / / DigiT.W.I.T. Ink. UnLtd. '92!
>/_________/o (_/o Pffffttt!!!...Pop!!!...Bang!!!.....Etc.!!!?

Greetings,
	  Not wishing to put you down or anything, but I know a group of
100%, completely authentic, unadulterated Munchkins who think that the 
Dark Sun setting is HIGH powered ! What more can I say ? Quite a lot really,
but maybe some other time. I just thought that you should be warned about
this game before it's too late. BTW Don't worry about completely TRUE rumors
about T$R getting the packaging on this set VERY VERY wrong. Of course, if
you like this sort of thing, go for it ! Yeah, you're right, I did want to
put you down, but only in the nicest possible, and public, way conceivable.

			       ACE
                   s903609@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au
	        " How deep is the ocean ? " - Eric
" No Silicon Heaven ? But where would all the calculators go ? " - Kryten
      " Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast." - Hero Rimmer
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: jamie@kauri.vuw.ac.nz (Jamieson Norrish)
Subject: Re: Intelligent opponents:Dragon
Organization: /u/student/jamie/.organization
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 06:06:35 GMT
	<JAMIE.92Oct9220659@kauri.vuw.ac.nz>
	<1992Oct9.145307.4583@Princeton.EDU>

In article <1992Oct9.145307.4583@Princeton.EDU>
tao@potato.princeton.edu (Terry Tao) writes:

   (c) slow reproduction rates (or for liches and the like, none at all).
   It's never easy for one being to take over the world (though possible for
   one being to destroy it), you always need underlings.

This is a good point, but begs the question of why don't dragons *get*
hirelings? With their magical abilities and the sheer fear they would
inspire in almost everybody they would not lack for people to do their
bidding. And although they might have to start small, they have lots
of time, and such an operation could easily excalate.

   (d) other interests (food, e.g., for trolls, or gold, for dragons) - who
   wants to rule humans anyway? they're entertaining as it is trying to sneak
   up on our lairs, etc.

Hmmm, well, if the dragons want gold, why not force other races to
mine the stuff, and create beautiful works of art from it. They could
get a lot more treasure this way than they could by picking off the
odd adventurer.

Jamie
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: LRPR000 <LRPR@UNB.CA>
Subject: Re: Many-to-one combats
Organization: The University of New Brunswick
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 17:12:45 GMT

In article <8OCT199214471833@phobos.ucc.umass.edu> s9877751@phobos.ucc.umass.edu (s9877751) writes:
>In article <08OCT92.15402995.0090@UNBVM1.CSD.UNB.CA>, LRPR000 <LRPR@UNB.CA> writes...
>>
>>I've often thought that when many opponents gang up on you, your AC
>>should be lowered by the fact that one of them feints and makes an
>>opening for the others - at least when dealing with intelligent,
>>weapon wielding opponents, or animals which hunt in packs, such as
>>wolves. This gives the horde of goblins *some* chance to hit that
>>guy in +3 plate mail. I also use the 1st edition weapon modifiers
>>(e.g. Two handed sword vs. plate mail gets a +2 to hit). I'm
>>thinking of a rule that each opponent beyond the first lowers your
>>AC by 1.  Any comments?
>>
>
>The armour class could be adjusted, but 1 for every opponent beyond the first
>is a bit steep.  Remember, if there are alot of enemies, they won't all be
>able to stand in front of you, and there will be bonuses for them to hit
>you from behind and whatnot.
  that would be 1 per extra opponent on you  - a maximum of 5 man sized
tures.  or perhaps the second should get +1, the third +2, etc?
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: thiggins@cix.compulink.co.uk (Tarry Higgins)
Subject: Re: Input wanted on a combat scenario
Reply-To: thiggins@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 01:39:26 +0000


Re: Input wanted on a combat scenario

 in Message <68760012@hpcvnb.CV.HP.COM from  moursund@hpcvnb.CV.HP.COM (David_Moursun
d)

As the elf I don't waste time cursing or any crap like that, there is 
no chance of casting spells or any such, no chance of vocal or 
somatic components.  Me, now I pull out 2 daggers (one in either 
hand) and stab this mr macho muscle to death, So what if he's immune 
to poison then my poison has no effect, but if he ain't, then he's 
been lucky so far.  I may well die soon, and if I'm dead then a 
poisoned dagger, saved for the future when I might *really* need it 
is no use to me at all.  Do everything at him, hold nothing back.  Oh 
and I remind the DM that I get +4 to hit and damage vs people using 
these sort of attacks on me, and I get to go first as well.  PHB2, 
page 98 "Making matters worse an armed defender is automatically 
allowed to strike with his weapon before the unarmed attack is made , 
regardless of the initiative dice roll.  Furthermore since his 
opponent must get very close the defender gets a +4 bonus to his 
attack and damage rolls."  How long have I got? depends on how many 
hp I've got, I would say, if the attack is strangulation this means 
you have con/3 rounds, but then again you can say that you stab him 
in the arm and his grip weakens alllownig you to draw a breath, so 
the pummeling counts under the wrestling rules.  

Well as MR Brawney, I've got the elf, and I an not losing, keep doing 
it, its working.  Smash him, bash him, strangle him, and hope the 
poison continues to be ineffective.  |If you let go you are dead, so 
dont let go.  


Taz AKA thiggins@cix.compulink.co.uk AKA Tarry A Higgins
The only valid test is combat,           
The only valid result is victory.
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: thiggins@cix.compulink.co.uk (Tarry Higgins)
Subject: Re: Lich & Demi-Lich...
Reply-To: thiggins@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 18:35:53 +0000


TITLE: Re: Lich & Demi-Lich...
> +Subject      : Re: Lich & Demi-Lich...
in article   : <1992Oct5.120254.13349@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu> 
gajensensays

> The commotion about a lich is the fact that not only is it an undead monster,
> (and yes, it is the single most powerful undead), it used to be at least an
> arch-mage. To top it off, it still has _all_ of the powers it possessed as an
> arch-mage, plus a few bonuses. Not losing con points for casting permanency and
> not having to worry about aging for the casting of wish are the two that come
> to mind most easily. If you also consider that the lich has had _lots_ of time
> to prepare his defenses, they are untouchable.
> 
where *exactly* does it say that a lich does not lose con points for 
casting a permanancy spell.  It's not im my DMG/PHB.  
from the MM writeup the lich has to worry about the side effect of 
wish spells, again nowhere does it say undead are immune to side 
effects of wish spells from the spell it says
"...and require 2D4 days of bed rest due to the stresses wishes place 
on time space and his body."
and as it says under Demi-Lich
"...as the power which has sustained its physical form gradully 
beigns to fail."
think about it.   

Taz AKA thiggins@cix.compulink.co.uk AKA Tarry A Higgins
The only valid test is combat,           
The only valid result is victory.
From: tao@fine.princeton.edu (Terry Tao)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Hit Points and massive damage
Date: 15 Oct 92 01:29:11 GMT
Organization: Princeton University

The MDM = 3/4 + 3/4 * (max hp / CON) is ok, but now anyone taking MDM of
4/3 their constitution will always die! don't 5 CON fighters get a chance
to toughen up?

propose

MDM = 3/4 + 3/4 * (max hp / (CON + fight.level))

where the fighter level is , well the best way to describe it is

21 - base Thac0 from class and level adjustments ONLY.

(see the appropriate table in the player's handbook)

Terry
 
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: tao@potato.princeton.edu (Terry Tao)
Subject: Re: Trolls' regeneration
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 14:41:23 GMT

OK, how about this.  When a troll gets cut up, the life force goes into the
largest piece that is within a certain range, say 10 feet.  The other bits
that go beyond this range cannot be entered until back in range.  Thus, if
you hack an arm off, send it off a cliff, then hack up the torso into
mince, then the arm doesn't get revitalized.  Put another way: the life
force can never move to a piece that was already cut up before unless it
joins back on.

Do you think the hp of the troll should somehow be divided?

and also, about the potion of troll essence: you will be regenerating with
troll cells (assuming you eat enough of them or inject them into your skin,
etc) and you will become a troll.  Mindless (remember, its in the DNA),
unable to use any munchkin items (wrong size, for one thing), I'm sure any
munchkin that's able to dispatch trolls so easily would not want to become
a pure troll himself.  (what they want of course is a troll option:
something with the benefits only.  NEVER give these things to them!)

Terry

Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: mage@en.ecn.purdue.edu (Stephen Anthony Vincent)
Subject: AD&D MAGAZINE
Followup-To: fannicm@WKUVX1.BITNET
Summary: Request for Subscribers
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 92 02:07:07 GMT

We will begin taking a list of subscribers to the new completely
free, AD&D e-Mail Magazine
If you desire to be put on our mailing list, please write to 

                  fannicm@WKUVX1.BITNET

as he will be taking the names and grouping them for our use.
We hope to be able to publish a new magazine once per week and 
our readers input will be greatly desired.  Please stay posted 
to this newsgroup for further information.

Tony aka mage

-- 
******************************************************************************* 
* Stephen Anthony Vincent     *    'There are no problems, only solutions'    *
* aka         The Mage        *                            --- John Lennon    * 
*      mage@en.ecn.purdue.edu *                                               *
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: house-rules
From: "Peter F. Delaney" <pd1x+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 08:39:42 -0400 
Organization: Junior, Mathematics, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

kjenks@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov writes:

> I don't know what version your modified system is based on, AD&D1 or
> AD&D2 (SINCE YOU DIDN'T TELL US!), but under AD&D1 rules, a
> Fighter can't have a 5 Wisdom.  Only a Thief can have a Wisdom that
> low (Wisdom table I., PHB1, p. 11).  In AD&D2, a Fighter, Mage, Thief or
> Bard can have a 5 Wisdom (Table 13, PHB2, p. 25).

	Well, okay, this is a *technicality*.  But the point remains, there
didn't used to be a reason for anyone except priests to have high
Wisdom, so if you use any system that allows players to roll and then
place stats, the low scores will probably go into WIS and CHA for your
fighter (not always, but usually).

	As for which rules system, we use AD&D2 with heavy modifications. 
Truth to tell, I forgot there are still people who play AD&D1. 
Apologies for not telling explicitly - I thought it was clear since I
mentioned fighters taking "styles", which does not happen in AD&D1. 
It's a Complete Fighter thing.

Pe+eR
.
Pe+eR Delaney, CMU, Pittburgh, PA ... Compuserve: 73750,3667
Internet: blackclove+@cmu.edu ...  Local: pd1x
PSYCHOLOGY:  The art of getting a really huge government grant
to say, in fancy words, "We don't know why."
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd