From: jtn@nutter.cs.vt.edu (Terry Nutter)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Basic Courtesy
Date: 27 Jul 92 22:52:51 GMT
Followup-To: rec.org.sca
Organization: SCA

Unto the good gentles of the Rialto does Hossein Ali Qomi send greetings
and prayers for the blessings of Allah.

Earl Dafydd recently wrote:

>PS  It also seems to me that those who are trying to defend Stephen's
>'bluntness' (which is this case is a synonym for rudeness) are going out
              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 
>of their way to ignore both context, and referents.  How many times have
>you heard something like, "That's a perfect example of why <x> shouldn't
>be allowed?"  It doesn't relate to the good attributes of the thing
>being used as an example - it relates to everything *bad* about it, and
>applies those bad things directly to the category being abused.  Stop
                                                                  ^^^^
>fooling yourselves, folks.
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

If bluntness is a synonym for rudeness, what, pray tell, is this?

>PPS  The existence of a thing on the Rialto doesn't imply its existence
>at an SCA event.  If it is Stephen's (or *ANYONE'S*) allegation that
>someone creating filk (for the entertainment of people, for their own
>personal gratification, for completely non-SCA purposes) is wrong, then
>I think that they should go shove it up their mule.  What a person does
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>with their creative energy is none of your business.  If that person
>displays the results in an inappropriate place, then you have a valid
>argument with that person.  The Rialto is *NOT!* an innapropriate place
>for filk - its not an event, nor is it even slightly an official function
>of the SCa.  Get off your high horses, please.  Thank you.
              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
And these?

I don't think I've been told to get fucked so courteously in years.  I
don't know whether to marvel more at the articulate elegance or the sheer,
arrogant double-standard.  And it's no more goddamned polite to tell
me to "shove it up my mule" -- how very euphemistic -- than to directly
and honestly tell me to shove it up my ass.

What really steams me is that at the same time he posted this, he sent my 
lady and me email saying that he disagreed with us but not a word about
posting the assertion that I could shove my opinions up my ass.  This 
reflects the cultural imperialism afoot in Dafydd's posting.  So long
as you're privately polite and observe the amenities of a friendly emailing,
you're licensed to tell somebody to get fucked in front of the world --
with one further proviso: the person you're insulting has to be advocating
an unpopular position (otherwise people might object).  This is so redolent
of hypocrisy as to sicken me.  If Dafydd had just posted, I wouldn't be
half so angry -- if he wants to tell me to get fucked, that's between
him and me.  I don't much care in the presence of how many people he says
it.  If I can't take the heat, I'll get out of the kitchen.  But to try
to sugar-coat it with polite email is craven, cowardly, and despicable.

I defend absolutely Dafydd's right to post anything he wants, in any
language he wants, regardless of what he says about or to me.  But I
prefer that someone who is going to attack me do it like a gentleman,
to my face, not whispering sweet gentility in email while insulting me
in public.

>Had I been
>the one to post something that was commented on in such a rude and
>authoritative manner, I would be at least very hurt, and at worst
>thoroughly insulted.  I feel very sorry for Christian.

How very selective the good earl's sensitivity.  It's okay to tell Stephen,
Tadhg, my lady, and me to shove our opinions up our asses, but God forbid
that we should tell someone that mundane filking is inappropriate in the
SCA.  If that's what courtesy is all about, then I don't think I want
much of it.

Hossein/Greg