HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: roma@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Jon Roma)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: K B & S     What is it ?????????????
Date: 28 Aug 92 17:14:34 GMT
Article-I.D.: ux1.BtpEKo.FrI
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign

31ochs@gw.wmich.edu writes:

>The road you speak of is the Kankakee, Beaverville & Southern. I see their
>piggyback trailers on the highway all the time(The are BN green and look
>almost like ex-BN intermodal design).

There's a good reason for this -- the KB&S trailers were purchased second-hand
from BN!

>I don't know how old the railroad is though. The part from Kankakee is
>an ex-NYC line that went up through North Judson,IN.

No, no, no!  The part of the KB&S from Kankakee is the old Big Four main
that went to Indianapolis.  The east-west line through Kankakee is former
New York Central and is still operated by Conrail east to Wheatfield, IN
and west to Streator, IL.  Through freights from CR to AT&SF run on this
line between Schneider, IN and Streator, gaining access to Elkhart via
Porter Jct.

Besides the ex-Big Four and ex-NKP lines, the KB&S also operates part of
the old Milwaukee Road from Iroquois Jct. to Danville, IL.  KB&S built a
connection between the ex-Big Four and ex-Milwaukee lines at Iroquois Jct.

I think the KB&S was created after the Big Four line was sold by the Penn
Central trustees around the time Conrail was formed.  CR didn't want the
line -- they already had too many others in the area.

The biggest attraction of the KB&S is that their roster is all-Alco.  Most
of their income comes from switching and storing cars, along with their
relatively new business of leasing truck trailers to shippers.
-- 
Jon Roma
Computing and Communications Services Office,
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Internet:  roma@uiuc.edu      	UUCP:      uunet!uiucuxc!uiuc.edu!roma
From: jr@ksr.com (John Robinson)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: N Y Crossharbor RR
Date: 3 Sep 92 15:12:37 EDT
Organization: Kendall Square Research, Waltham, MA
In-reply-to: v106qhlw@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu's message of 2 Sep 92 14:08:00 EDT

In article <BtyqEn.4D0@acsu.buffalo.edu> v106qhlw@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Poster Child Against Meal Plan) writes:

   First, what was the name of the magazine that had the article in it about the
   NYCRR?  Was it 'railpace'?  

_Trains_, v49#3, January 1989, p 36 "By Carfloat to Brooklyn".
--
/jr, aka John Robinson                       Place stamps here
internet: jr@ksr.com                    Post Office will not deliver
uucp: {world,harvard,uunet}!ksr!jr      mail without correct postage
From: SDupa@xview.csuohio.edu (Scott Hewis)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: New Amtrak Routes
Date: 28 Aug 92 17:08:04 GMT
Organization: Cleveland State University - Telecomm

In article <1992Aug25.152546.12860@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> jmarshal@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John L Marshall) writes:
>From: jmarshal@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John L Marshall)
>Subject: Re: New Amtrak Routes
>Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 15:25:46 GMT

>I sent away for the Amtrak study mentioned above, and have just finished 
>skimming it.  I don't have it next to me, but I'm pretty sure there is no 
>mention of Denver to El Paso service.  However, they did study Denver-Dallas 
>service.

>If anyone wants any more details on this segment or any of the other segments 
>of this report, I can post some details.  The report covers things such as 
>estimated equipment required, capital costs, conditions of track and stations, 
>chance of breaking even, and many other interesting things.  Many of the 
>segments were also suggested for 403(b) state funding as a way to get them 
>implemented faster.  As it stands now, the only segment talked about in the 
>report that is set to see Amtrak service is the extension of the Sunset 
>Limited to Jacksonville, effective with the April 1993 timetable change.

>Previously some people were asking about Chicago-Florida service.  This was 
>previously studied, but it is also mentioned in the report.  I can post details
>if people want them.

>--
>*******************************************************************************
>John Marshall, III                           jmarshal@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
>            Pittsburgh Penguins - Stanley Cup Champions - 1991, 1992
>                 "It's a great day for hockey." - Bob Johnson
>                "Scratch my back with a hacksaw!" - Mike Lange
>*******************************************************************************

I would be interested to hear if the report said anything about additional 
to/from Cleveland, Oh. i.e. extending the Pennsylvanian from P'burg to Cleve.
and Cleve., Colum., Dayton, Cinncy.  Thanks.

Scott
--------------------------------------
* Scott Hewis; Telecom Specialist    *
* Cleveland State University         *
* email c/o scott@asgard.csuohio.edu *
--------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: elw4@po.CWRU.Edu (Evan L. Werkema)
Subject: Re: I need historical info.
Reply-To: elw4@po.CWRU.Edu (Evan L. Werkema)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 00:29:18 GMT


In a previous article, M00209@MBVM.Mitre.Org () says:

>In article <10040@jthome.uucp>
>dtyler%jt_home.uucp@amber.athena.lkg.dec.com (David Tyler) writes:

>>I also have reason to belive that there was trackage between the D&S RR
>>(former Rio grande) and CATS. (Crumbres and Tolec Seanic (sp?) Railroad.
>>
>The surviving narrow gauge lines are the "Durango and Silverton Narrow Gauge
>Railroad", between the towns of Durango and Silverton, and the "Cumbres and
>Toltec Scenic Railroad" between Antonito CO and Chama NM.  As mentioned above,
>both were part of a through line between Alamosa and Durango, Silverton and
>Farmington.  Trackage between Durango and Farmington and between Chama and
>Durango was abandoned circa 1965.  

  I think the actual year was either 1970 or 1971, the year after the C&TS
was created.  The original plan was to save the whole line from Alamosa to 
Durango, but it was decided that no one but avid railfans could survive
a trip that long, so they settled on the Cumbres Pass line.

  Don't forget the D&RG "Chili Line" from Antonito, CO to Santa Fe, NM!  It was
built after the D&RG lost Raton Pass to the ATSF and was intended (I think) to
eventually extend down to Mexico via SP predicessor El Paso North Eastern, in 
competition with Santa Fe's line.  ATSF did it's best to styme the D&RG's 
plans, and finally the narrow guage to Santa Fe (NM) was torn up in 1942.  The
only remnant is the standard-guage spur to the Perlite plant south of town.  
I understand much of the narrow-guage rail and fixtures was sent to Alaska for
their narrow guage!

>The "extra" rail on what had been three-rail trackage (standard and 3-foot) 
>between Alamosa and Antonito was removed at about the same time.
-- 
 o__II___---__---__---___I~~~|~______________    |~~~~~~|~~|~~~~~~| |~~~~~~|~~|
 _|______________________|___|_|     3000    `\  |      |  |      | |      |  |
/ o~~O-O-O-O-O~~O-O-O-O-O~~o~~~~o-o-o~~~~o-o-o~~~~o--o~~~~~~~~o--o~~~o--o~~~~~~
Evan Werkema---------------------------------------------------elw4@po.cwru.edu
From: romeo@niagara.Tymnet.COM (Michael Stimac)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Most spectacular passenger routes
Date: 4 Sep 92 17:41:35 GMT
Article-I.D.: tymix.2450
Organization: BT North America (Tymnet)

In article <1992Sep4.030134.18127@ecsvax.uncecs.edu> ehr@ecsvax.uncecs.edu (Ernest H. Robl) writes:
>
>
>Okay, how about the Semmering line in Austria?  It's southwest of
>Vienna and features 2.5 per cent grades as well as manyy tunnels.
>It's also well known for its stone viaducts, some of which are 
(description of scenic wonders deleted)

Just to throw a curve in this discussion, I'll offer a different
opinion. Everyone's comments on this question assume that what
makes a train ride "spectacular" is nature's scenery.

My personal favorite train ride, and the one I think is most
spectacular is riding on the (US) so-called Northeast Corridor
between New York CIty and Washington D.C.  Being a lover of
railroads, seeing the history and the current status of this
rail line is very impressive to me. It is one of the most
impressive rail "permanent ways" in the world, from the
engineering achievement of the Penn Station (alas the
above ground part now longer there) and tunnels to New Jersey,
past the multiple-moving bridges in Newark, along the 6-track
mainline through Rahway, etc. etc. The railroad civil
engineering accomplishments are many and impressive; there
is nothing like this stretch anywhere (that I know of).

One of my best thrills was riding south on this line from
New York 2 feet from the driver (but still technically not
_in_ the driver's cabin). 

So, are we rail-fans or scenery-fans? Do we point our
camera toward the rails or away from them?

(I'm in no way trying to flame the scenery lovers, just
trying to stir up a little thought and discussion - I'd
also like to learn of other impressive civil engineering
accomplishments around the world)

Michael Stimac

-- 
Michael Stimac
(415) 355-8889
romeo@tymnet.com
These opinions are not necessarily anyone's but my own.
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: djenkins@axion.bt.co.uk (David Jenkins)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Most spectacular passenger routes
Date: 1 Sep 92 12:39:06 GMT
Reply-To: djenkins@axion.bt.co.uk (David Jenkins)
Organization: British Telecom Research Labs


In article <sam.1ajy@terapin.com>, sam@terapin.com (Sam Lewit) writes:
|> We've seen the thread on the 10 top western RR shrines, how about
|> this one...
|> The most spectacular PASSENGER rail routes in the world.
|> 

Although it isn't a regular public service (i.e. get you from A to B
with minimum fuss) the Snowdonia Mountain Railway is worth a trip,
unless you don't like heights...

This is a geared railway using steam locomotives (1 carriage per loco),
running on a slope of about 1 in 3 in places.  It's just fields etc. for
three-quarters of the trip, then all of a sudden you find yourself on
the crest of a ridge with steep slopes on both sides (one side near
vertical for 1000+ feet!).  I've seen people close their eyes and refuse
to get out at the top 'cos they couldn't cope.

The trip takes about 1 - 1.5 hours, but you usually have to queue for a
while - it's worth it as long as there isn't cloud at the top.





David Jenkins

"You are better off not knowing how sausages and laws are made."
--Unknown
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: M00209@MBVM.Mitre.Org
Subject: Re: Cranbury, NJ branch of NEC
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, Bedford MA 01730
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 18:08:58 GMT

In article <1992Sep1.152147.22139@cbnewsh.cb.att.com>
sgard@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (sanford.gardner) writes:
 
>
>In article <1992Aug30.233206.1876@Princeton.EDU>, jsm@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (John Scott McCauley Jr.) writes:
>> There seems to be a single-track branch of the NEC heading SE from
>> New Brunswick NJ to Cranbury Station. It still has catenary, so I'd
>> guess it was used recently for passenger service.
>>
>> Anyone have further details? If it wasn't used for passenger sevice,
>> why does it still have catenary? Most of the other lines around here
>> with catenary support passenger traffic. If the line only is for freight,
>> they take it down really quickly!
>>
>>       Thanks,
>>
>>               Scott
>
>The branch line your talking about links the AMTRAK main line
>at Monmouth Jct. with NJ Transit (North Jersey Coast Line) at
>South Amboy. From South Amboy, the NJT tracks connect back to
>the AMTRAK main at Rahway. From Monmouth, the line goes through
>Dayton, Jamesburg, Helmetta, Spotswood and Old Bridge to S.A.
>
>I believe that AMTRAK supports the maintenance of the catenary
>between Monmouth Jct and South Amboy to maintain a bypass route
>in the event of a problem on the main line between Rahway and
>Monmouth.
>
The route was heavily used for electric freight operation when the PRR was
operating electric freight.  A train of (possibly one) MP54 MU car(s) was
scheduled as a commuter run (I assume running through from NY but I forget)
between South Amboy and Jamesburg until sometime about 1958 or 1960.  I think I
have a picture of it in some dusty box somewhere.
 
Passenger service between Monmouth Junction and Jamesburg in my memory
consisted only of the run of the gas-electric ddodlebug that ran between
Trenton and Long Branch until something like 1964.  I don't recall there ever
being any electrically operated passenger service between Monmouth Junction and
Jamesburg, but would be happy to be corrected by anyone with a longer memory or
more readily available old timetables.
 
 
Len Bachelder        Archives Committee, Boston and Maine RR Historical Society
MITRE Corp.           Secretary, Massachusetts Bay Railroad Enthusiasts
Bedford MA 01730      Member, 470 Railroad Club
<M00209@mbvm.mitre.org>
 
"Amazing love, how can it be that Thou, my God, should'st die for me!"
                                                 - Charles Wesley
From: jbcst+@pitt.edu (John B Coxey)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: RRs in highway ROWs
Date: 30 Aug 92 12:11:41 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <1992Aug26.161857.9134@ryn.mro4.dec.com> pierson@empror.enet.dec.com (dave pierson) writes:
>
>	As stated, the problem is many of the highways aren't set up to allow
>anything in the median.  As it happens i just got back from a road trip to
>Idaho Falls & back.  I wasn't taking notes, but the percentage of
>median_suitable_for_RR/M*G-L*V_ROW, based on simple width requirements, is
>miniscule, at least along I80/I90.  Those in New England may recall the
>Mass Governor's suggestion of "something" in the Mass Pike Median from
>Boston-Springfield.  Apparently, He's never BEEN that way.  At least not with


   Just wondering,  if you have an elevated system,  how do you keep
from hitting it with automobiles (in an emergency situation)?

   The walls of de(concrete type barriers) may stop a car, but semi's
can go through them.  And what happens if a pier or two is damaged?
Looks like some serious downtime to me.

     I'm thinking about the PA-TPK.  Seems like there is a serious wreck
on there every week.  Just about every time I've been on there, I've
seen a wreck, or new evidence of one.

     PA was proposing a high speed rail down the PA-TPK corridor (not
necessarily the median), just wondering about the safety factor.  
Most hwys (east anyhow) don't seem to have the wide medians that
I-90/94 have between Calumet (U-76 truck stop) and Chicago, where their
mass transit system runs.

John Coxey
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 19:26:51 EDT
From: <CSS3@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Signal type (was: Re: Semaphore Signals)
Distribution: na
 <BtpDJy.CMB@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> <28059@olympus.wustl.edu>

   The recent discussion about semaphores and signal indications brings up a
 point I've wondered about for years, but never asked. Why is it on some lines,
  mostly branch lines I've noticed, there is a semaphore signal or some other
  kind of signal that seems to be permanently set in the "approach" (yellow)
  mode not too long before an interlocking crossing with another RR. I've
  seen these on both Illinois Central and on a couple ex-PRR branch lines in
  Indiana and Illinois. I would think that having the signals protecting the
  crossing would be protection enough. From what I can tell, these approach
  signals never change indication, even when an opposing train passes by them.
  I belive on the ex-PRR lines there was a letter "A" on the signal masthead,
   which I assumed meant "approach." It would seem logical to have these
 signals to "hold" a train away from the signal before the crossing if the
   crossing is located in an urban area where the railroad doesn't want a
   waiting train to block grade crossing. But these signals apparently do
not serve that function.

    How about it signal experts, what is the purpose of these signals?

  Thanks in advance

craig sanders
From: dik@cwi.nl (Dik T. Winter)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Most spectacular passenger routes
Date: 4 Sep 92 00:55:20 GMT
Organization: CWI, Amsterdam

In article <Bty5Jq.Ez2@cs.vu.nl> peter@cs.vu.nl (Grunwald PD) writes:
 >
 > To me, by far the most spectacular ride was the train on the (Italian) island
 > of Sardinia from Arbatax to Cagliari (in fact,the fun bit is from Arbatax to
 > Mandas: great, I mean great mountains...and what a ride!)
 >
I remember best my train ride from Beograd to Sophia, especially the part
between Nis and Sophia when the mountains are crossed.  And, when I did this
in 1968 there was still steam.  Great scenery.
-- 
dik t. winter, cwi, kruislaan 413, 1098 sj  amsterdam, nederland
home: bovenover 215, 1025 jn  amsterdam, nederland
dik@cwi.nl
From: johnm@hpmcaa (John Mosbarger)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Railfan Plates
Date: 4 Sep 92 19:30:57 GMT
Article-I.D.: hpmcaa.1992Sep04.193057.8280
Organization: HP Cardiology Business Unit - McMinnville, OR
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

Bob Wier (rrw@elden.cse.nau.edu) wrote:
> When I came into school this morning, I spied a car with the
> license plate "C AND NW" above a bumper sticker which said
> "I'd rather be on the TRAIN".  And this was on an Arizona
> personalized plate. Now, that's a REAL railfan considering
> what this state wants for personalized plates!
> 
> --BW
>   (of RGS, D&RGW, D&SNG, and CATS fandom)

     At this year's Winterail shindig in Stockton, there were the typical
"foamer" personalized plates, but two interesting vehicles.  One was a small
pickup with canopy that was completely painted in Santa Fe freight colors!
There was a Dodge Caravan that was decked in SP Black Widow colors, and I
understand he has a second Caravan painted in Daylight colors, complete with
sound effects (I think it's the sound of wheels on jointed rail).  Now that's
hardcore!

>  - Bob Wier
> 
>   ---------- insert favorite standard disclaimers here ----------
>                    College of Engineering
>       Northern Arizona University, Flagstaff Arizona
>   Internet: rrw@naucse.cse.nau.edu | BITNET: WIER@NAUVAX | WB5KXH

--
John Mosbarger
HP McMinnville, OR
johnm@hpmcaa.mcm.hp.com
From: johnm@hpmcaa (John Mosbarger)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Railfan Guides/Publications
Date: 28 Aug 92 19:25:44 GMT
Organization: HP Cardiology Business Unit - McMinnville, OR
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5


     I have received email and seen postings regarding some of the various
railfan guides and publications that may be helpful in railfanning some of
the West's "Sacred Shrines."  Following is some info on the literature that
I have seen advertised.  I have seen nearly all of these, and can recommend
them.  I have no affiliation with any of them, other than a satisfied cus-
tomer.


California Region Timetable #3            $13.50
Northwest Region Timetable (WA/OR/ID)     $13.00
Southwest Region Timetable (AZ/NM)        $ 9.00

These are laid out in employee timetable format, with radio frequencies 
(road and PBX), location of detectors, speed limits, length of sidings, etc.

All prices are postpaid and are available from:

Altamont Press
PO Box 754-P
Modesto, CA 95353-0754


Cajon Pass               
Tehachapi Pass           Include directions, photos, rosters, radio freqs.,
Afton Canyon             motels, camping info

$11.00 ea. or all 3 for $27.00 (8 1/4% tax for CA residents)

Available from:  Steel Rails West
                 PO Box 59117-P
                 Norwalk, CA 90652-0117

This info was taken from the classifieds in Pacific Rail News, which probably
explains the 'P' in the PO box #.


MRL Trackside Guide & Locomotive Directory        $13.95
BN Trackside Guide from Pasco to Marias Pass      $10.95
BN Trackside Guide to the Columbia River Gorge    $ 9.95
CP Rail Trackside Guide to Kicking Horse Pass     $ 9.95

Prices are postpaid.  8% tax for WA residents

Available from:  Northwest Railfan
                 13118 Roosevelt Rd.
                 Snohomish, WA 98290


Flimsies (Cal. news every 2 wks.)  $30/26 issues

PO Box 6776-N
Orange, CA 92613


Northwest Railfan (OR/WA/ID/MT/NoCa)  (Monthly)

Same address as above

(If anyone has additions, corrections, or comments, don't hesitate to post
them.

--
John Mosbarger
HP McMinnville, OR
johnm@hpmcaa.mcm.hp.com
From: vaughnw@asia.fai.com (Vaughn Wolffe)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Re: Coast Starlight late again
Date: 28 Aug 92 14:24:53 GMT



>From: alj@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Al Jackson)
>I'd like to hear from anyone connected with Amtrak who might offer some
>hope to potential new customers and old die-hard ones like me who
>purchase sleepers to keep the corp. afloat.



There is a bill HR 4414, currently before congress that would set up
a trust fund for Amtrak capital funding. This would go a very long
way towards financing and planning improvements. Contact your senator
and congresspeople immediately to support it.



   Vaughn Wolffe        vaughnw@hadar.fai.com
From: dtyler%jt_home.uucp@amber.athena.lkg.dec.com (David Tyler)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: I need historical info.
Summary: Looking for info.
Keywords: Rio Grande and Westren
Date: 21 Aug 92 13:02:22 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Totally Disorganized..

Hey everybody!, I need infomation on the Rio Grande and Westren. I seem to
only be getting part of the story all the time. How big was the Railroad at
it's height of operations and was it always 3-foot gauge or standard gauge.
I also have reason to belive that there was trackage between the D&S RR
(former Rio grande) and CATS. (Crumbres and Tolec Seanic (sp?) Railroad.

I have been on both in the 80's. I also noticed one engine outside sittting
on a layout track looked like it was in use throughout the whole system. It
was marked "Rio Grande and Westren Railroad". Can anybody tell me if it is
still there?.

______________________________________________________________________________

______________________________________________________
|                                                     \
|  o  o  o  o  o  o  o  o  o  o  o  o  o  o  o  o 0000 \
|_______________________________________________________\
 00-00 \_David M. Tyler, (Go Devils!)________/ 00-00 \0/
 

 
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: earl@phred.UUCP (choo choo earl)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Snoqualmie        , WA Train Yard?
Keywords: mbvm.mitre.org
Date: 27 Aug 92 15:21:48 GMT
Reply-To: earl@phred.UUCP (choo choo earl)
Organization: <1684AD207.M00209@MBVM.Mitre.Org>o

In article <1684AD207.M00209@MBVM.Mitre.Org> M00209@MBVM.Mitre.Org writes:
>In article <1992Aug19.132334.1@max.u.washington.edu>
>daytrpr@max.u.washington.edu writes:
> 
>>BTW, I don't remember which railroad the line originally was...either
>>Milwalkie Road, Grand Trunk, or Northern Pacific, I think.  I'll check
> 
>It was the Milwaukee Road.  Grand Trunk in WA?!?? - Never happened, sad to say!
> 
Actually, the line the Snoqualmie railroad is on was originally the Seattle
Lakeshore and Eastern.  This was built in the 1880's in response to the
Northern Pacific going to Tacoma rather than Seattle.  Anyway, they got as
far as Tanner (Just outside of North Bend) and ran into the mountains and
out of money.  The NP bought them out and used the line until the merger.
BN used the line until 1976 when part of it, and the Snoqualmie depot was
donated to the Puget Sound Railway Historical Assn.  We purchased some more
of it to get our present run.  
The Milwaukee Road is (or was) in the area, and served the Weyerhaeuser 
sawmill along with the NP.  There was a connection between the NP and 
Milwaukee through the mill.  There was also a crossover at Tanner, but 
I don't know if there was a "connection".  

Presently, the Milwaukee tracks have been pulled out completely, and the
NP tracks are gone from Snoqualmie to Issaquah (about 15 miles).  There's
some interesting railroad history in this area, including the POLITICS that
went along with it.
I hope this sheds some light on the subject.

-- 
DIG A DUCK DIG A DUCK DIG A GEODUCK DIG A DUCK DIG A GEODUCK DIG A DUCK A DAY
earl@phred      Physio Control Corp.   Redmond Wa   (206)867-4255
I find when I work on the computer too long I have this uncontrolable
urge to eat Twinkies, drink Coke, and wear funny sandals.