HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ouwendyk@prso.pttnwb.nl (A.P.J. Ouwendijk)
Subject: Re: NL Runway Naming? (was El Al Boeing crash on Amsterdam)
Organization: PTT Telecom b.v. The Netherlands
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 09:40:04 GMT

lhe@sics.se (Lars-Henrik Eriksson) writes:
|> philf@xymox.palo-alto.ca.us (Phil Fernandez) writes:
|>    Peter Knoppers writes:
|>    >...
|>    >airport using the "Zwanenburgbaan" (straight North). The plane
|>    >...
|>    >prepare runway 06 (the "Kaagbaan"). With the rather strong wind
|>    >...
|>    >"Buitenveldertbaan". (It is assumed that the crew wanted to land
|> 
|>    This is a naming convention with which I'm unfamiliar.  Are these
|>    names of the runways themselves, or of the approach/departure
|>    corridors?  Are they used commonly?  Instead of the numeric runway
|>    heading?  Is this a NL practice, or used elsewhere (non-US, the only
|>    thing with which I'm familiar :-( )?
|> 
|> These must be local nicknames for the runways, just as runway 03/21 at
|> Uppsala airbase (Sweden) is called the "Atlantic runway".
|> 

The numeric runway heading is used, but most people are not familiar
with this naming convention.
The names like "Zwanenburgbaan" etc, are (nick)names named after
villages (or lakes) that are under the approach/departure corridors.

-- 
        Anthon Ouwendijk               E-Mail: ouwendyk@prso.pttnwb.nl
   __o  PTT Telecom b.v.  o__          Voice:  +31 70 3434572
 _`\<,  's-Gravenhage     ,>/'_
(_)/(_) The Netherlands  (_)\(_)       #include    <std/disclaimer.h>
From: dfr@usna.navy.mil (PROF D. Rogers (EAS FAC))
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: GTE CONTEL DUAT new features
Date: 7 Oct 92 17:33:00 GMT
Organization: U. S. Naval Academy

In article <1992Oct7.003150.6050@europa.asd.contel.com> powell@wraith.netops.gtefsd.com (Mike Powell "GTE FSD Net Mgr") writes:
!In article <2229@usna.NAVY.MIL> dfr@usna.navy.mil (PROF D. Rogers (EAS FAC)) writes:
!!In article <5314@rosie.NeXT.COM! amm@NeXT.COM (Alan M. Marcum) writes:
!!!John Stephens writes
![stuff deleted]
!
!!I use Contel from the office over the Internet but it runs at
!!about 1/4 to 1/3 speed in comparison to on the PC with a
!!2400 baud modem. Have not succeeded in getting the Telebit to
!!work with either DTC or Contel using Procomm.
!
!Since this is my area of expertice....
!The reason your are slow is your are military.
!They are all behind several, although I think it's down to two now,
!gateways between MILnet and the rest of the Internet.

Yes, we know about this and have been trying to get on to one of
the academic nets. But you know how fast the government moves!

Still, it is what I see.

Thanks for the info.

Dave Rogers

!
!traceroute to USNA.USNA.NAVY.MIL (26.7.0.102), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets
! 1  zippy2.netops.gtefsd.com (131.131.131.2)  0 ms  0 ms  0 ms
! 2  internet.netops.gtefsd.com (131.131.20.10)  0 ms  0 ms  10 ms
! 3  sura6-gte-c1.sura.net (128.167.35.1)  10 ms  0 ms  0 ms
! 4  en-0.enss136.t3.nsf.net (192.80.214.248)  10 ms  10 ms  10 ms
! 5  t3-1.cnss58.t3.nsf.net (140.222.58.2)  10 ms  10 ms  10 ms
! 6  t3-3.cnss56.t3.nsf.net (140.222.56.4)  10 ms  10 ms  10 ms
! 7  t3-0.cnss32.t3.nsf.net (140.222.32.1)  10 ms  10 ms  10 ms
! 8  t3-1.cnss40.t3.nsf.net (140.222.40.2)  30 ms  30 ms  30 ms
! 9  t3-2.cnss24.t3.nsf.net (140.222.24.3)  30 ms  40 ms  40 ms
!10  t3-1.cnss8.t3.nsf.net (140.222.8.2)  70 ms  90 ms  80 ms
!11  t3-0.cnss9.t3.nsf.net (140.222.9.1)  70 ms  70 ms  80 ms
!12  t3-0.enss144.t3.nsf.net (140.222.144.1)  70 ms  90 ms  80 ms
!13  192.52.195.26 (192.52.195.26)  100 ms  80 ms  80 ms
!14  usna.usna.navy.mil (26.7.0.102)  2550 ms  1500 ms  1800 ms
!
!The problem is getting your packets out onto the Internet.
!From my end its that last hops that kills you.
!
!Hope that clears things up.
!
!Mike
From: rah@public.BTR.COM (Richard A Hyde  rah@btr.com)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Can a 747 fly for 24hrs ?
Date: 14 Oct 92 22:31:10 GMT
Organization: BTR Public Access UNIX, MtnView CA. For info contact: info@BTR.COM

In article <1992Oct13.232542.1@wharton.upenn.edu> baran04@wharton.upenn.edu (Dave Baran) writes:
|In article <1992Oct13.200214.23053@bmerh85.bnr.ca>, rivan@bnr.ca (Robert Ivan) writes:
|> 
|>  I am just wondering if there is a speed at which a 747 could fly
|> for 24 hrs.  Range isn't so much important as time aloft.  Also
|> any bets on how much it would cost to charter of of these
|> babys for a day. 
|
|I believe that the "transport category" record is still held by a
|Boeing 747-400 -- nonstop from Seattle to Cape Town.  I believe that
|it took around 18 hours.
|
|From my Boeing 747-400 Reference Guide: Total fuel capacity is (max)
|57,285 US gallons.
|

If the goal is total time aloft, perhaps you could shut down two engines
to conserve fuel. P3-Orions use this technique to "loiter" over station.


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|   Richard Hyde  |  RaH@btr.com  |    This space intentionally left blank   |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: kerry@Ingres.COM (Kerry Kurasaki)
Subject: Re: Rescue Questions
Reply-To: kerry@Ingres.COM (Kerry Kurasaki)
Organization: Ask Computer Systems Inc., Ingres Division, Alameda CA 94501
Date: 14 Oct 92 21:36:52 GMT

In article <1992Oct14.175602.3537@col.hp.com> davea@col.hp.com (Dave Allen) writes:
>I'll second the advice to call Civil Air Patrol, or a Flight Service Station
>(1-800-WX-BRIEF). They can see if a plane is overdue (on a flight plan) and
>give you information to help you search, or add your information to their
>search, which might be already on.
>
While the CAP performs most of the SAR activities, the responsibility
for search and rescue lies with various Rescue Coordination Centers.
For aircraft, it is typically the Air Force Rescue Coordination Center
at Scott Air Force Base in Illinois.  They must know about the situation
before the CAP can be activated.

A mission is typically activated either by ARTCCs or FSSs contacting
the (Scott AFB) or by satelite ELT hits.  You can contact CAP, but they'll
have to forward stuff to the AFRCC before they can officially be launced
for a mission.  This information is contained in the AIM.

>Also, small aircraft (with some exceptions) are required to have an Emergency
>Locator Transmitter which is activated by sudden g-forces, eg a crash or real
>bad landing. They operate on 121.5MHz and the CAP is good at homing in on
>them.

For some reasons, most ELTs seem to go off about 9:00-10:00 PM resulting
in calls to ELT teams about 11:00-Midnight and locating the ELT about
4:00 AM.  I wonder if this is a universal constant like pi, e, etc.

Kerry
From: pauls@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Paul Stafford)
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 19:36:49 GMT
Subject: Re: qu. on bay tour on 10/10
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Rosa, CA
Newsgroups: rec.aviation

 bad weekend- it's fleet week, and the Blue Angels are going to be in town, 
 doing the speed thing. The will be flying Fri and Saturday. sunday may be
 the best bet.
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: spagiola@frinext.stanford.edu (Stefano Pagiola)
Subject: Re: Can a 747 fly for 24hrs ?
Reply-To: spagiola@frinext.stanford.edu
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 92 04:35:24 GMT

rivan@bnr.ca (Robert Ivan) writes:
>  I am just wondering if there is a speed at which a 747 could fly
> for 24 hrs.  Range isn't so much important as time aloft.  Also
> any bets on how much it would cost to charter of of these
> babys for a day. 
> 

I think the USAF EA-4B National Airborne Command Post (modified 747s)  
are designed to stay aloft >24hrs; this might involve air refuelling  
at some point.  If memory serves, at some point the supply of oil and  
other such things becomes binding, so even with continuous aerial  
refuelling you couldn't stay up forever.

--
-
Stefano Pagiola
Food Research Institute, Stanford University
spagiola@frinext.stanford.edu (NeXTMail encouraged)
spagiola@FRI-nxt-Pagiola.stanford.edu (NeXTMail encouraged)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: davea@col.hp.com (Dave Allen)
Subject: Re: What if a 747 could fly for 24 hrs ?
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 18:44:10 GMT
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division

rivan@bnr.ca (Robert Ivan) writes:
> since the rich will pay for anything different or even stupid.)

That's true. Also true...
The rest of us will do anything different or even stupid to get them
to spend it! :-) :-)

dave allen - Fly because you love it.
From: philf@xymox.palo-alto.ca.us (Phil Fernandez)
Subject: Re: VFR - Palo Alto/Santa Barbara - Preferred Routes
Organization: Jade and Jett Incorporated
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 04:13:21 GMT

In article <Bvo5wo.7A6@taligent.com> cep@taligent.com (Christophe Pettus) writes:
>This keeps you clear of all special-use airspace EXCEPT a small corner
>of R-2504 which V25 just north of Paso Robles clips.  Stay on the
>north-western side of US 101 to avoid it, or ask Oakland Center if
>R2504 is hot, and avoid it when you're getting close if it is.

You wanna stay on the north-EASTERN side of 101!  Otherwise, I agree
100% with Christopher.  Great flight.

pmf


Xref: sparky rec.aviation:16533 rec.aviation.answers:2 news.answers:3359
From: tetsuji@rai.juice.or.jp (Tetsuji Rai)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: How to change a PPL of FAA to an equivalence of Europe or Austraila.
Date: 11 Oct 92 09:55:08 GMT
Organization: Rai's home in Tokyo


    Hi, netters.
   Title says it all.    I have a private pilot certificate(though it
is still the temporary one), and am to get Japanese certificate.
To convert a FAA PPL to a Japanese PPL, nothing is necessary except for
the *real*(not temporary) certificate.   But i'm wondering whether I can
get Europe's licence or Austraila's licence and how.    Is anything
required for that ?
   Thank you in advance.

Tetsuji

----
Tetsuji Rai    tetsuji@rai.juice.or.jp
5-12-21, Toyotamakita, Nerimaku, Tokyo 176, Japan
voice: +81-3-3557-3936   fax: +81-3-3993-0323
From: lmiller@aero.org (Lawrence H. Miller)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: GTE CONTEL DUAT new features
Date: 7 Oct 1992 22:59:12 GMT
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: anpiel.aero.org

In article <BvptG9.HBw@news.cso.uiuc.edu> frye@cerl.uiuc.edu (G. David Frye) writes:
>In article <1992Sep30.182012.30051@europa.asd.contel.com> system@gnd1.wtp.contel.com writes:
>>Furthermore some "undocumented" features you may use in decode -
>>
>>o Enter dept/dest airport pairs (i.e JFKBOS) to get a listing of preferred
>>	routes available on the system.
>
>I tried this just now and couldn't get it to work, in regular decode or
>extended decode.  Specifics?


	Just worked for me.

	(1)  Go into decode mode
	(2)  Enter ident(s): SFOLAX
	SFOLAX route   SEEMS V027 VTU V299 SADDE V107 LAX

-- 
Larry Miller		The Aerospace Corporation
lmiller@aero.org	PO Box 92957		
310-336-5597		LA, CA 90009-2957
From: dick.zeitlin%acc1bbs@ssr.com (Dick Zeitlin) 
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Class III medical exam
Date: 14 Oct 92 20:59:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Advanced Computer Concepts BBS, New Rochelle, NY 914-654-1981
Reply-To: dick.zeitlin%acc1bbs@ssr.com (Dick Zeitlin) 

DNC> .Do any of the doctors (or anyone else, for that matter) out there know th
   > .reason for a breast exam during a Class III  medical?  Did any of the fem
   > .have a breast exam as a part of their medical exam?

As far as I know, it's not required.  A couple of AMEs that I spoke to
said that they do a general checkup, covering the same items that they
do in their normal routine in addition to the specific items
that the FAA mandates unless the pilot specifically requests
otherwise.

        D/

 * OLX 2.2 * Bring back A-N airways!!    Dick.Zeitlin%acc1bbs@ssr.com
                                                               
Newsgroups: rec.aviation,rec.aviation.homebuilt
From: leonam@aix.rpi.edu (Marcus B. Leonard)
Subject: Re: Seawinds Sea Plane Kit
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 19:42:16 GMT

In article <1992Oct7.171009.27733@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> Charles.K.Scott@dartmouth.edu (Charles K. Scott) writes:
>In article <1992Oct7.133046.4595@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu>
>baldwin@pacific.cps.msu.edu (Reid A Baldwin) writes:
>
>> Why would the pitching moment be influenced by fore-aft placement?
[...]
>center of gravity.  With the engine placed on the tail, it may still be
>way above the center of gravity, but has less influence there because
>it has to pivot the entire fuselage whereas in the middle engine
>location the it has only to pivot one half.  Is this right David?

I'm not David, but I don't think this is right.  The pitching moment due
to the engine is equal to the thrust multiplied by the distance from the
thrust line to the CG.  It does not matter where along the thrust line the
engine is located.  Assuming the aircraft is a rigid body (generally a
desirable feature for airplanes), this moment will cause the same rotation,
regardless of where the moment is applied.

I think David was trying to say that, by putting the engine back on the
tail, you can angle the engine (and therefore the thrustline) downwards.
This will bring the thrust line closer to the CG.  You could, of course,
do the same thing with an engine mounted closer to the main wing, but it
would have to be angled down much more sharply.  Since it is also generally
desirable to point the prop in the direction you want to go, you are better
off putting the engine on the tail, with only a slight tilt from horizontal.

				Marc Leonard
				leonam@rpi.edu

Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: juhasa@microsoft.com (Juha P. Salin)
Subject: Adding Seaplane rating after PP-SEL
Date: 11 Oct 92 22:26:17 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corp.

Hi:
I recently got my PP-SEL and am now thinking about
adding Seaplane rating.  I have a few general questions:
1. How many hours of instruction & solo time (?) would be
   required to add this rating?  What would be a reasonable
   average # of hours it would take?
2. How expensive is Seaplane rental & instruction compared to
   regular?
3. What exactly is required to add this rating?

Thanks,
Juha Salin
juhasa@microsoft.com

Ps. I would appreciate if you could e-mail any info to me, since
    I'm not able to read newsgroups regularly.

From: leed@hpgrla.gr.hp.com (Lee Devlin)
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 16:35:16 GMT
Subject: Re: Logging PIC (sorry ... sigh )
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Avondale, PA
Newsgroups: rec.aviation

In rec.aviation, geoff@peck.com (Geoff Peck) writes:

>Aargh.  The logging question again.  Definitively, now:

>(2)  You may log PIC whenever you are the sole manipulator of the controls
>     in an aircraft for which you are rated.

>(3)  A high performance endorsement is an endorsement, not a rating.
>     "Airplane Single Engine Land" is a rating.


> o  whether or not you are flying a high-performance airplane and
>    whether or not you hold a high-performance endorsement

>If you cannot act as PIC, but wish to fly an airplane, you merely need to
>have another pilot who meets the appropriate requirements and is willing
>to go along with you and act as PIC.  That pilot may or may not be an
>instructor.

I have been having an on-going discussion with a friend of mine for
several months about this very thing.  He has a Mooney which we have
flown on several long cross-countries.  I insisted that I could log the
time which I actually manipulated the controls.  He said that according
to some FAR in part 61 that it is illegal to 'operate' a plane without
proper authorizations or endorsements (sorry, I don't have the FARs with
me).

The problem here is our interpretation of the word 'operate'.  I claim
that one does not need to manipulate the cotrols to 'operate' a plane
(i.e.  *act* as PIC).  Using his definition, it would be illegal for me
to take over the controls even if he wanted to reach into the back for a
map!  (Fortunately, he doesn't practice this :-).

Is it legal to allow someone to manipulate the controls of a plane for
which he or she does not have a proper endorsement if you're not an
instructor?  Incidentally, this would now include taildraggers.  How
about those of us who actually allow non-pilots to manipulate the
controls?  Is that legal?


Lee Devlin             |    HP Avondale Division  | phone: (215) 268-5697 
Piper Colt N4986Z      |    Rt 41 & Starr Road    | email:
Spirit of rec.aviation |    Avondale, PA 19311    | devlin@hpavla.avo.hp.com
Xref: sparky rec.aviation:16600 rec.aviation.misc:106
From: kerry@Ingres.COM (Kerry Kurasaki)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation,rec.aviation.misc
Subject: Re: Where are the chopper x-countries?
Date: 12 Oct 92 17:26:03 GMT
Reply-To: kerry@Ingres.COM (Kerry Kurasaki)
Organization: Ask Computer Systems Inc., Ingres Division, Alameda CA 94501

In article <JKF.92Oct10075307@frisky.Franz.COM> jkf@Franz.COM (Sean Foderaro) writes:
>
>
> So why aren't there more people using helicopters for personal  long
>distance transportation ...
>...   Also for some people money really isn't a factor.
> 

A good sized ($$$) helicopter does about 140 knots.  A small cabin class
twin can do 200+ knots.  Something turbo-prop can do 250+ knots.
And then there's a G-V...

Kerry
Newsgroups: rec.aviation,rec.aviation.misc
From: jbrown@qdeck.com (Jordan Brown)
Subject: Re: What Constitutes "Cross Country"
Organization: Quarterdeck Office Systems, Santa Monica CA
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1992 03:16:53 GMT
Keywords: Cross Country,X-country,Legal

mikec@tabasco.lcs.mit.edu (Mike Ciholas) writes:
>If the flight involved planning, weather, and navigation
>then it is a cross country whether or not the airport of intended
>landing is 49nm or 51nm from home base.  The FARs say you need to have
>cross country experience of a particular distance, that is more than
>50nm, not that all x-countries are greater than 50nm.

I believe we all agree that such flights require all of the skills involved
in cross-country flying.  However, they are not acceptable flights to
count towards a rating, and therefore TO MAKE THE BOOKKEEPING EASIER Geoff
(and I, and most people I know) recommends that you do not log them as
cross-country.

>Where does the FARs define cross country?

They do not.  They define what kinds of flights can be used for the various
requirements for ratings, and with the exception of the ATP rating those
requirements are quite specific.  Unfortunately, they are also all
different, and none of them allow for the cases you mention.  Welcome to
the FARs.

>I guess my advice would be to use a consistent definition and to get
>so much cross country time that it never is an issue.

I concur, and would recommend that the definition you use is that the flights
have a landing at a point more than 50nm from the point of origin, which
is sufficient for all of the requirements except for the few requiring
particular "long" flights.  That way when you have to fill out the FAA form
for a rating you can look at your logbook and the "cross-country" column will
tell you the answer.
From: geoffm@purplehaze.Corp.Sun.COM (Geoff Miller)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: El Al Boeing crash on Amsterdam
Date: 9 Oct 92 21:59:07 GMT
Followup-To: rec.aviation
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Menlo Park, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: purplehaze.corp.sun.com



In article <1992Oct7.185332.3461@bony1.bony.com> billg@bony1.bony.com 
(Bill Gripp) writes:

>In the newspaper account I read, it was stated that a Boeing spokesman
>said that there was no history of problems with this particular
>aircraft, and that it was designed to be flyable on ONE engine.


Yeah, but at what gross weight?


Geoff


-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
Geoff Miller                    + + + + + + + +        Sun Microsystems
geoffm@purplehaze.Corp.Sun.COM  + + + + + + + +     Menlo Park, California
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: schayne@acs.ucalgary.ca (Stephen Hayne)
Subject: Re: Super Decathlon
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 92 05:01:15 GMT
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta

In article <BvvB2u.2LF@fc.hp.com> billa@fc.hp.com (Bill Arnold) writes:
>On the Super Decathlon, you asked about the best way to repair the
>wings.
>
>IMHO, if you have anyone in the ten owners who can restore airplanes,
>repair the wings yourself, getting an A&P to help/signoff.

Well, to all of you who are holding your breath about our wing
problems, we decided to go with the aluminum wings.  If we fly
the plane down to the factory in WI, they will do the whole thing
for $12,500 (including paint) and MIGHT even give us up to $3,000
back on the old wings as a "trade-in" - we think they are trying
to provide an incentive to get the wooden wings out of the air
due to liability.

Anyway, I should be flying again in about two more weeks!  Deep
sigh.

-- 
Stephen C. Hayne, Assistant Professor, MIS, University of Calgary
    __!__         (403)220-7161        schayne@acs.ucalgary.ca
_____(_)_____     "I love to fly - my banker will verify."
Newsgroups: rec.aviation,rec.aviation.misc
From: dick.zeitlin%acc1bbs@ssr.com (Dick Zeitlin) 
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: gear-down check
Date: 11 Oct 92 11:21:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Advanced Computer Concepts BBS, New Rochelle, NY 914-654-1981
Reply-To: dick.zeitlin%acc1bbs@ssr.com (Dick Zeitlin) 

SB> .>I could understand where the FAA would want to limit its liability.  Afte
  > .>what would happen if they forgot to ask just one time?

SB> .It's still the pilot's responsibility to make sure the gear is down, after
  > .all the pilot is still in command.  It's just that I feel that it might
  > .eliminate those gear up accidents that we all hear about.

But it's true that if you always expect something, you tend to rely on
it.  All the Tower types I know agree that they'd sure say something if
they noticed it.  But requiring them to check each arriving aircraft
could be something of a burden.

Just having them say "Check gear down" doesn't make much sense.  Don't
people use checklists? (;-})

        D/

 * OLX 2.2 * Bring back A-N airways!!    Dick.Zeitlin%acc1bbs@ssr.com
                                                                                                         
Newsgroups: rec.aviation,rec.aviation.military
From: brent@telebit.com (Brent Chapman)
Subject: Live TV coverage of the Moffett Airshow
Organization: Telebit Corporation; Sunnyvale, CA, USA
Distribution: ba
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 17:17:26 GMT

For those of you in the Bay Area who can't make it down to Moffett this
weekend: I think that Channel 2 (maybe it was Ch 44 or Ch 36, but I'm pretty
sure it was Ch 2) is planning live coverage of the full airshow on Saturday.
Check the TV listings for more details.


-Brent
--
Brent Chapman                                   Great Circle Associates
Brent@GreatCircle.COM                           1057 West Dana Street
+1 415 962 0841                                 Mountain View, CA  94041
Xref: sparky rec.aviation:16528 rec.aviation.misc:72
From: n933x@pnet16.cts.com (Et2 Rich)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation,rec.aviation.misc
Subject: Re: aircraft with the same names as land vehicles
Date: 8 Oct 92 22:16:07 GMT
Organization: People-Net [pnet16], NCTAMS EASTPAC

how about the P51-MUSTANG! or the MALIBU?  

UUCP: humu!nctams1!pnet16!n933x
ARPA: humu!nctams1!pnet16!n933x@nosc.mil
INET: n933x@pnet16.cts.com
Newsgroups: rec.aviation