HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
X-Envelope-to: CFS-L@NIHLIST.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"CFS-L@NIHLIST.BITNET"
Newsgroups: alt.med.cfs
Date:         Mon, 21 Dec 1992 17:14:00 CST
              <CFS-L@NIHLIST.BITNET>
From:         DAVID NYE <NYEDA@UWEC.BITNET>
Subject:      Lyme disease discussion

Sorry folks.  I had actually already decided not to reply to O'Donnell's
last post.  It was clear to me that the discussion wasn't going anywhere
and it is a little off-topic for this list.  I have also been getting
the feeling that my role as skeptic here is not entirely welcome.  I
guess I just can't sit on my hands when I see someone posting as fact
something I believe to be wrong or unscientific.  So I'll be off.  See
y'all round the net.

David Nye
nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: alt.med.cfs
Date:         Mon, 21 Dec 1992 17:24:08 EST
              <CFS-L@NIHLIST.BITNET>
From:         Dale Drake <DDRAKE@INDYCMS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Lyme disease discussion

Kate:

I read about your planned trip home for the holidays.  I can understand your
concern; I did one of these this summer and the only advice I can give is that
you be firm about your rest times.  Will you have a separate room?  That, I
think, would be imperative.  I found my family was very understanding once
they got to see what my personal schedule was like - they learned quickly that
energy-requiring activities needed to be planned between 9am and 1pm.

Trying to maintain your own schedule, and staying on your normal diet as much
as possible, would help, too.  Partying hearty is something to save for later,
when we're well again (yes, it will come, it will, it will!).

Good Luck! and enjoy your holiday.

BTW, does anyone know how to change the subject header when replying with
a VM system?  Seems trivial ...  Roger?  Oh, Roger?   :)
Newsgroups: alt.med.cfs
From: aa328@Freenet.carleton.ca (Sandy Shaw)
Subject: Laughter a Rx for Health
Organization: National Capital Freenet, Ottawa, Canada
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 04:45:50 GMT


The Following is from the M.E. Association News Letter
MEssenger Nov 1992
 
 Scientific evidence is mounting that a positive out look
 and a sense of humour can bolster the immune system and enhance
 health.
 
 A study asked 10 medical students to watch a humorous movie and
 10 others to sit quietlyin another room. A decrease in the
 levels of stree hormones (which can supress the immune system)
 was found in teh students who watched the funny movie, but the
 level remained unchanged in those who didn't watch the movie.
 
 In another study, nineteen pregnant women were given
 psychological questionnaires before and after delivery. Those
 who handled streeful situations with humour also tested higher
 for Immunoglobulin A (IgA) - a protein produced by the body,
 that helps upper-respiratory infections. Consequently, the new
 moms and their babies suffered fewer colds, laryngitis and
 tonsillitis.
 
 "The data definitely suggests that a positive fram of mind -
 including felling happy and daily laughter - produces
 beneficial physical effects," says LEE S. BERK, DMSc., MPH., of
 Loma Linda University School of Medicine.
 
 Laughter stimulates the adrenal gland, which secretes
 cortisol, a disease-fighting hormone. Interestingly, cortisol
 has been reported to be decreased in M.E. patients. Focusing
 more on the positive - and trying to have more fun in life -
 will perhaps aid M.E. sufferers towards a speedier recovery!
 
  ===
 
Whoever named it "necking" was a poor judge of anatomy.
               Groucho Marx
 
Have a happy day }8=)
 
-- 
Sandy Shaw       a PWC
The News Hound
From: bmdelane@quads.uchicago.edu (brian manning delaney)
Newsgroups: alt.med.cfs
Subject: Flagyl and Immune Modulation
Date: 2 Jan 93 19:14:23 GMT
Reply-To: bmdelane@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago


 

  I was diagnosed with Crohn's Disease (an IBD -- "Inflammatory Bowel
Disease") last May, and was given Flagyl (metronidazole) for the first
few days I was in the hospital. My understanding of the rational
behind this is that Flagyl can do two things: 1) kill bacteria that
might be causing IBD-like symptoms, and 2) directly modulate the
inflammation process, in some way unrelated to its anti-bacterial
properties. The Flagyl worked. Cultures showed that I had had no
bacterial infections, which suggests that it wasn't Flagyl's
anti-bacterial properties that helped me.
  Many IBD researchers think that Crohn's is caused by an
immune-disregulation of some kind. Flagyl may be effective against
Crohn's because of its immune-modulating abilities.
  It seems worth considering, then, that when Flagyl helps someone
with CFIDS, it may not be because the drug is killing bacteria, but
because it is having a more direct effect on the immune system.

  Other possibility: I may have had a spirochete -- one that I
wouldn't have been tested for in the hospital -- and it may be that
Flagyl works like this: Flagyl ==> kills spirochete ==> spirochete
stops its immunological mischief ==> inflammation subsides.
  I discussed this possibility w/my doctors, and they said it was
highly unlikely. I tend to agree, for reasons I'll go into later if
there is further interest in this topic.

-Brian Delaney
bmdelane@midway.uchicago.edu

(BTW, I have had CFS for five years, and my anti-Crohn's diet -- which
I'll post at some point -- has helped my CFS enormously.)
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: alt.med.cfs
Date:         Tue, 22 Dec 1992 10:24:59 EST
              <CFS-L@NIHLIST.BITNET>
From:         BEKI BRINDLE-DEMYER <RLBRINDL@INDYCMS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Please don't leave

I second the motion!  Don't leave us!  I think the BIG WORDS and LOUD VOICES
scare some of us and because we're READING an arguement and can't immediately
jump in with a comment because we can't contend with some of the language usage
, we begin to feel like helpless children, wishing mommy & daddy would stop fig
hting!  BUT PLEASE DON'T ABANDON US....we're just beginning to catch on!!!



                                          BEKI

**********************************************************************
*Beki Brindle-DeMyer                                         /       *
*RLBRINDL@INDYCMS.BITNET                                    /        *
*RLBRINDL@INDYCMS.IUPUI.EDU             \ .. /             /         *
*                                         ><   -----------/          *
*                                             _\_      _|_           *
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Organization: IUPUI Student Activities Office (317) 274-3931
Newsgroups: alt.med.cfs
Date:         Wed, 23 Dec 1992 18:35:26 EST
              <CFS-L@NIHLIST.BITNET>
From:         NATHAN BRINDLE <NBRINDLE@INDYCMS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Lyme disease discussion

I find this antibiotic treatment discussion fascinating and am beginning
to wonder if it's Lyme that I have.  (If I do, it sure isn't much of a
case, considering what some people have been saying about symptoms.)  I
had a prostate infection for over a year (off and on, as these things
do) which was treated with a couple of different antibiotics during the
course of the infection.  The first was a sulfa (can't remember which
one) which I turned out to be allergic to.  (Fun, fun!)  The second was
Cipro, the third was Floxin--both of which are floxicillins (if I remember
correctly).  The use of the floxicillins caused me major distress--incredible
weariness, joint pain, memory loss (short term) and really bad mood swings.
I even got mad at my girlfriend, something that has never happened before
or since.  (I guess I'm lucky--and my sister would say very patient...:)
All of these treatments were for 30-45 days and the bad stuff went on
throughout most of the course, but as I recall <were> particularly bad
at the beginning.

I'm a prime candidate for tick bites, since I am a Scouter, and for five of
the last six years spent a week each summer at camp down in southern
Indiana.  I calculate I've been out in the woods something like two or
three full months in the past six years.  But I guess until we have a
real Lyme test, I'm probably gonna have to wait.

BTW, I'm on doxycycline for bronchitis at the moment--this is only the
second day, but I'm going to pay attention to how I feel over the next
week or so till the treatment is done!

-----------------------------------------------------BITNET:  NBRINDLE@INDYCMS
Nathan C. Brindle, Student Activities Office
Staff Advisor, ALPHA PHI OMEGA, TAU OMICRON CHAPTER
Indiana University-Purdue University at Indianapolis
Internet:    NBRINDLE@INDYCMS.IUPUI.EDU
Compu$erve:  71461.2471@COMPUSERVE.COM
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: alt.med.cfs
Date:         Wed, 30 Dec 1992 06:35:07 EST
              <CFS-L@NIHLIST.BITNET>
From:         Roger Burns <BFU@NIHCU.BITNET>
Subject:      amalgam / How to Use LISTSERV DATABASE

                 TODAY'S QUOTE:

"If you ask an engineer what time it is, he'll tell you how to make a watch."


> I have read, that in this newsgroup you have discussed about amalgam
> in teeth. Unfortunately these articles are expired in my mailbox.
> Who could send a summary to me or post it in this newsgroup once more please?

Ah, a wonderful opportunity to learn more about LISTSERV!  Most LISTSERV
lists, including CFS-L, can have their archives searched by database
commands.  These commands must be submitted as a "batch job", however,
not as the simpler one-line commands most of us usually use.
Consider the following example:

//   JOB Echo=No
Database Search DD=Rules
//Rules  DD *
SEARCH AMALGAM IN CFS-L
INDEX
PRINT
/*

If you send the text above to LISTSERV@LIST.NIH.GOV or to
LISTSERV@NIHLIST.BITNET you will have sent to you a listing of all
CFS-L messages that contain the word "amalgam" (regardless of whether
any of the letters are upper or lower case).

The "INDEX" command as shown above is unnecessary but I usually include
it because sometimes a database search will exceed the maximum allowable
output per job (2000 lines) and so the INDEX output will list all the
items that had been found from the search, and so I'll know what I
didn't get because of the maximum limit.

You can get those extra items by submitting another variation of the search
command.  If you use the command SEARCH AMALGAM IN CFS-L SINCE 13 NOV
you will then be sent all messages containing the word AMALGAM and had
been sent on or after the 13th of November.

You can also narrow your search by using the reserved word AND or broaden
it by using the reserved word OR.  E.g., entering SEARCH AMALGAM AND RESEARCH
would yield only those messages which contained both of those words.

A full description of how to use the LISTSERV database utility can be
obtained by sending the "regular" LISTSERV command INFO DATABASE to
LISTSERV@LIST.NIH.GOV .  The one error in the database manual that will
be sent to you is that it says you must send database batch jobs to
the address DATABASE@nodename whereas in fact you must send them to
LISTSERV@nodename.


Roger Burns      bfu@cu.nih.gov / bfu@nihcu.bitnet / fidonet 1:109/432
List-owner, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome discussion
CFS-L  on LISTSERV at NIHLIST.BITNET or LIST.NIH.GOV
Newsgroup: alt.med.cfs
From: cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu ()
Newsgroups: alt.med.cfs
Subject: Timing (was Re: Lyme disease discussion)
Date: 21 Dec 1992 19:37:26 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

In article <01GSKT9B44GI9FMHXX@HUSC1.HARVARD.EDU> KEGANRO@HUGSE1.BITNET writes:
>
>I'm going to visit my parents, traveling for
>the first time since I got sick, 2 1/2 years ago.  I'm pretty nervous...
>-- I hope having that schedule messed up won't
>make me feel too yucky to enjoy everyone's company.  ....

You might try parking yourself on a sofa, after the manner of Elizabeth
Barrett Browning, and chat from a reclining position.  Doing as little
as possible physically may make it easier to stay awake for social
occasions.  Put a chair next to the head end of the sofa so people
don't feel tempted to push your feet aside and sit down.

>I WANT MY LIFE BACK.

Hey, so do we all ... which is no guarantee that we'll get it ... but I
note that you got sick 2.5 years ago, so let me hint that a fair number
of CFS-owners get better after about 3 years--not *well*, but better
than they were before.  It happened to me; it *could* happen to you;
so cross your fingers and put a candle in the window for the New Year....

Dorothy J. Heydt
UC Berkeley
cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu

Disclaimer:  UCB and the Cozzarelli lab are not responsible for my
opinions, and in fact I don't think they know I have any.
From: BFU@NIHCU.BITNET (Roger Burns)
Newsgroups: alt.med.cfs
Subject: Dr. Nye has left
Date: 22 Dec 92 22:28:25 GMT
              <CFS-L@NIHLIST.BITNET>
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

The LISTSERV machine has notified me that Dr. Nye has unsubscribed from CFS-L.
Before this occured I'd sent a private message to him and later he
sent me a response, which I copy below.  In my message I mentioned
that I admired the discussions on FIBROM-L which in general is more
active than CFS-L and which (as I reminded David) includes informative
exchanges between him (Dr. Nye) and others about clinical issues.
I expressed a curiosity as to why these medical-oriented exchanges
are a regular and staple part of discussions on FIBROM-L but not CFS-L.
(I'm not including the recent "battle of the Titans" that we've all had
to suffer here).  Dr. Nye's response in part refers to this comment of mine.
After Nye's comment, I have an additional message of my own about
discussions on FIBROM-L.

== Forwarded Mail ==

I appreciate your reply, but I think CFS-L will be better off without
me.  Despite being about similar diseases, CFS-L and FIBROM-L have
different functions.  FIBROM-L deals more with clinical issues and
information exchange.  CFS-L works more like a support group.  These are
both important functions, but they don't always mix well.  Sometimes a
physician's presence can be inhibitory in a support group.  The discord
generated during debate makes people who come to CFS-L mainly to be
comforted feel uncomfortable.  I wonder if this isn't partly why
traffic has been light on CFS-L lately.  I will still be happy to answer
email from participants.  Alternatively, clinical questions can be
posted to sci.med where they will reach a larger audience.  Feel free to
post this to CFS-L if you feel it is appropriate.

David Nye
nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu

==============================================================

I wonder if those of us who want to follow & participate in discussions
of clinical issues might want to, as a regular matter, pursue them on
FIBROM-L ?  It would be easy to be subscribed to both -- but of course
then you'd get a lot more mail.

To subscribe to FIBROM-L send the message SUB FIBROM-L <your> <name>
to the address LISTSERV@VMD.CSO.UIUC.EDU or to LISTSERV@UIUCVMD.BITNET .
To obtain previous messages of FIBROM-L, send the command GET FIBROM-L LOG9212
to the same LISTSERV address as above.


Roger Burns      bfu@cu.nih.gov / bfu@nihcu.bitnet / fidonet 1:109/432
Chronic Fatigue Syndrome discussion list
CFS-L  on LISTSERV at NIHLIST.BITNET or LIST.NIH.GOV
Newsgroup: alt.med.cfs
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: alt.med.cfs
Date:         Tue, 22 Dec 1992 14:54:15 EST
              <CFS-L@NIHLIST.BITNET>
From:         fac nancy evans <nancy@LIS.PITT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Please don't leave

I also hope Dr. Nye stays on the list.  I really appreciate his comments
and insights.  I am a firm believer that we don't have to agree with
what a person says all the time to learn from her or him; in fact, I often
learn the most from people with whom I *disagree*.  So please do not be chased
 off
the list by disagreements, even heated ones.

Nancy Evans

nancy@lis.pitt.edu
From: PERLMBA@AUDUCADM.DUC.AUBURN.EDU (Brenda A Perlman)
Newsgroups: alt.med.cfs
Subject: Diversity
Date: 22 Dec 92 11:00:00 GMT
              <CFS-L@NIHLIST.BITNET>
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Delivery-Notice:  SMTP MAIL FROM does not correspond to sender.
X-Envelope-to: CFS-L@NIHLIST.BITNET

As a subscriber with limited medical knowledge, I find some of the
discussion on CFS-L beyond what I can readily understand. However, I
ALWAYS find it interesting and stimulating. It has led me to do more
reading and studying on CFS related issues, than every before. Being
unofficially diagnosed and living in an area where medical doctors
seem to avoid accepting the illness, my only support has come from this
list and from family and friends. Nearly all my information has come
from this or related lists and the subsequent reading it has
encouraged. Due to limited time, I have not been keeping up with the
recent discussion which led to one of the subscribers (Dr.Nye) wishing
to withdraw from the list. My personal opinion for what it is worth
(without knowing all of the discussion) is to strongly encourage him to
remain. Many of us on this list are desparately struggling with
maintaining our health. I think most of us have gone to many doctors
and tried a variety of approaches, and we know there is disappointment
in what is medically offered to us,and in attitudes that await
us. We also know that medical "evidence" does not always agree!
However, discussion, open and honest, diverse and controversial, is
healthy and very necessary. I think the most detrimental thing to
happen would be total agreement, or worse yet, silence.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: alt.med.cfs
Date:         Tue, 22 Dec 1992 18:51:10 EST
              <CFS-L@NIHLIST.BITNET>
From:         Roger Burns <BFU@NIHCU.BITNET>
Subject:      SET - NOMAIL command

> ...  (But the moderator
> does provide a handy command, sent to you when you sign up for FIBROM-L,
> that you can use to stop mail for short periods of time when you are too
> busy -- without actually unsubscribing permanently.)

One of the commands that is standard to all LISTSERVs is the SET NOMAIL
command.  To stop mail without unsubscribing send SET <listname> NOMAIL
to the LISTSERV that maintains the list in question.  To re-establish
mail, send SET <listname> MAIL to that LISTSERV.
From: BFU@NIHCU.BITNET (Roger Burns)
Newsgroups: alt.med.cfs
Subject: CFS-L *might* be down; Holiday Greetings
Date: 24 Dec 92 20:36:39 GMT
              <CFS-L@NIHLIST.BITNET>
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

> FLAGIL, FLAGIL, FLAGIL!  What is it, and what is it used for ?!
>     This IS exciting!

Hitting the egg nog a bit early, eh, Beki?

Say gang, I'll be out of town & off the net for a few days.
I wish everyone a happy holiday season.  And while I'm gone,
everybody play nice!

TECHNICAL NOTE:  I just remembered -- my computer center has posted
a notice that they won't be processing email during Christmas day, and
that policy might begin today as of 6 PM Eastern time.  It just occured
to me that this might mean the NIHLIST Listserver also -- in which
case CFS-L will resume processing on Saturday.

Take care, all!


Roger Burns      bfu@cu.nih.gov / bfu@nihcu.bitnet / fidonet 1:109/432
List-owner, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome discussion
CFS-L  on LISTSERV at NIHLIST.BITNET or LIST.NIH.GOV
Newsgroup: alt.med.cfs
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: alt.med.cfs
Date:         Tue, 22 Dec 1992 23:19:51 EST
              <CFS-L@NIHLIST.BITNET>
From:         Roger Burns <BFU@NIHCU.BITNET>
Subject: Re: how to find a doctor`

Dr. Marshall Gilula has had a technical problem in posting to the list.
I forward below his latest attempted posting.  I will send him an
information file in accordance with his request.

== Forwarded Mail ==

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 23:02:28 -0500
From: Marshall Gilula <mgilula@tigger.rsmas.miami.edu>
Subject: Re: how to find a doctor`


I am an MD, and have been a member of the American Holistic Medical
Association since close to its founding in 1978, and I wrote some stuff
on this board about some of my opinions, not it j(broken terminal controls)
intending to be giving medical advice and I got flamed for it by private
email, so I have avoided writing any more,,,,even though, if I were to do
it I would try to write


       *********standard disclaimers apply**************


BTW, would someone email me a *definition* file of CFS that I could
send a brother of mine in NYC ?

Thanks
-73-
Marshall
mgilula@tigger.rsmas.miami.edu (Internet)
Marshall F. Gilula, M.D              "El que busca mucho nada encuentra, pero
mgilula@tigger.rsmas.miami.edu         el que busca nada mucho encuentra"
NeRD#1054     Co-Founder, MiamiNUG    NeXTMail Welcome
Virtual Virtual Realities,    German Shepherds,   and    Steinbergers.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Original_To:  BITNET%"CFS-L@NIHLIST.BITNET"
Newsgroups: alt.med.cfs
Date:         Wed, 23 Dec 1992 12:57:00 EST
              <CFS-L@NIHLIST.BITNET>
From:         MCINTOSH@XAVIER.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Lyme disease discussion

        I also was treated with FLAGIL for something totally different and
while it did nothing for the symptom which it meant to treat, it brought
relief, strangely enough, to my constant sore throat and swollen glands in
my throat.  There was no explanation for this from the attending doctor, nor
do I think the doctor cared.
        I have much difficulty in finding a doctor who is willing to cooperate
with me in my quest for health (I'll have to check out that _Holistic Health
Directory_).  Unfortunately, after the course of Flagil was completed, my sore
throat returned and has been with me on and off for years.  Perhaps the dosage
wasn't right to give me more permanent results.  You are the only other person
that I have ever heard of getting relief with FLAGIL.  Maybe I wasn't crazy
after all!

Charlotte McIntosh
Xavier University Libraries
<MCINTOSH@XAVIER.BITNET>
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: alt.med.cfs
Date:         Thu, 24 Dec 1992 23:02:00 CST
              <CFS-L@NIHLIST.BITNET>
From:         ACKERMAN DAVID J <ACKERMDJ@MEMSTVX1.MEMST.EDU>
Subject:      Flagyl and symptoms

Bekki and anyone else on the net:

Do you have a history of frequent sore throats? Have you ever been tested for
chronic strep?

The reason that I am asking is that I have been slowly developing a theory
that what we are dealing with in CFS, FM, and a host of related problems
with similar symptoms may be a combination of strep and fungal infections.

Before everyone rolls around on the florr laughing, there is a dermotologist
at the med school here in Memphis who has had great sucess in treating
 psoriasisbased on his theory that it is caused by such a combination. SInce he
 has a
50-75% sucess rate, I'm inclined to believe him...

Meanwhile, I keep wondering about such a combination - when one or the
other organism is knocked down, symptoms improve for a brief period, but
it sounds like they return... I wonder what would happen if both an anti-strep
drug (penicillin is normally the drug of choice except for those of us
who are allergic to it) and an antifugal like nizirol were given to someone
cfs or fm...

Anyone else out there have any ideas?

Best wishes for a great holiday...

Dave Ackerman
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU