From: mjc+@cs.cmu.edu (Monica Cellio)
Subject: Re: Filk vs. Recreation (was Re: out-of-period dancing)
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 06:31:42 GMT

Simon says:
>Disclaimer: I am sometimes caught with my facts down.  I do my best, but
>please call me when I blow it!

Ok, since you asked... :-)  (Not that you've "blown it"; there are some
very fuzzy areas here.)

>In particular, lines of couples that count off 1 and 2 or A and B (known in
>the trade as "duple minor" dances), are (I think) either very late- or more
>likely post- period.  The only two I happen to know are Female Sailor
>(where does this come from, anyway --- late Playford?) and Hole in the
>Wall, but there are others.

[Female Sailor isn't in first edition Playford, that's for sure.]

Ok, just what conclusions are we drawing about first edition Playford?
There is no question that they are late; if they're considered period for
this discussion then there *are* longways-for-as-many-as-will dances, in
significant quantities even.  I could believe that they are a more recent 
development than the Playford dances for set numbers of couples, but I'd 
*really* like to see some supporting evidence from one of the proponents 
of this argument before simply accepting that assertion as fact.

Herewith the complete list of first edition Playford dances that are 
longways for as many as will:  Bobbing Joe, The Saraband, A Health to
Betty, Skellamfago, Cast a Bell, Have at thy Coat Old Woman, Drive the 
Cold Winter Away, The Gun, The Maid Peept Out at the Window, Halfe-Hannikin,
Irish Trot, Once I Loved a Maiden Faire, The Irish Lady, All a Mode de France,
My Lady Cullen, The Bath, Goddesses, Jog On, The London Gentlewoman, Lavena,
Souldier's Life, Petticoat Wag, Paul's Steeple, The Punk's Delight, 
An Old Man is a Bed Full of Bones, The Country Coll, Saturday Night and
Sunday Morn, Hockley in the Hole, New Bo Peep, The Fryar and the Nun, 
Paul's Wharf, Stane's Morris, Tom Tinker, Lady Lye Neare Mee, New New Nothing,
Row Well Ye Mariners, and The Slip.  That's 37 out of the 104 dances in
the book, or roughly a third.

Step Stately is "a long dance for 3, 4, 7, or 9 couple".

As an aside, Mil-field, Rose is White and Rose is Red, Peppers Black, 
Chirping of the Nightingale, Gathering Peascods, and Up Tailes All
are *rounds* for as many as will, and Sedany (Dargason) is for as many
couples as will in an odd configuration (all men lined up one behind the
other, all women the same, head of each line facing the other).

That makes 43 (or 44 if you count Step Stately) of 104 that appear to have
been designed for an arbitrary number of couples.

>Also, the only dances I know of that start in "improper" position (some or
>all ladies on the left) are post-period (in fact I think they may be 19th
>or 20th century --- somebody check me on that?).

Playford first edition: Greenwood, Hyde Park (huh? that's what it says, but
that's not how people do it...), and Lull Me Beyond Thee.  That's it on a 
quick scan.  (The drawings of 2-couple dances are ambiguous and 
inconsistent; you have to read the descriptions to stand a chance of knowing.
Given how few others there are with improper couples, I didn't bother --
there may be a few, but it doesn't look like they're anywhere near the 
norm.)

Of course, as I said before, this is Playford, which just barely squeaks
under the 1650 line, and is of course well past the official cutoff.  How 
many of those dances were danced in that form before 1600?  I don't know.

Ellisif
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