From: "James F. Tims" <p00168@psilink.com>
Subject: Re: Faulty IQ reasoning (Was: Re: iq<->religion: connection?)
Organization: Semper Excelsior
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 05:12:03 GMT
X-Mailer: PSILink (3.2)

>DATE:   Mon, 4 Jan 1993 18:35:44 EST
>FROM:   John A. Johnson <J5J@psuvm.psu.edu>
>
>In article <X9yuwB4w165w@mantis.co.uk>, mathew <mathew@mantis.co.uk> says:
>[in response to an incredibly long thread I stopped reading months ago]
>
>>The "sincere observation" that high IQ correlates with atheism is certainly
>>an interesting one.  I'm afraid that the last time I did an IQ test it
>>indicated that I had an IQ of 68, and so I'm rather predisposed to (a) doubt
>>the correlation you suggest and (b) doubt the usefulness of IQ tests as a
>>measure of intelligence of any variety.
>>
>>Of course, feel free to argue that I really am a moron.
>>
>I'd like to suggest that both the "sincere observer" and mathew are
>conducting pretty shoddy psychological research.  Casual observation,
>however sincere, lacks the necessary rigor for determining the
>correlation between intelligence and theistic beliefs.  If I remember
>correctly, proper research indicates the correlation is about zero.
>
[...]

Oh, splendid, Mr. Johnson!  Bully for your memory.  Produce something.  
I posted dozens of studies showing just the opposite, that the 
correlation is quite high.  Just "shoddy studies," I suppose. At least it was 
something besides a fond personal opinion.  At least it was something, while
you seem to have just discarded all of them and substituted the power of 
your own opinion.  

What infuriating hubris!  Pompous, pedantic bullshit!  I pounded the 
keyboard for hours, looked through books, and came up with quite a bit 
in support of atheists being smarter; but you, lazily, with a prissy wave of 
your lousy memory, toss my work over your shoulder without so much as a 
mention.  Something besides your stinking recollections would be grand, 
Mr. Johnson, especially since they seem so selective.  Post us 
a non-shoddy study, Mr. Johnson, that supports your position (other than 
the four that I included with your preferred result).  Anything would be 
better than "proper research indicates the correlation is about zero,"  
including leaving this empty, infuriating, condescending, stultifying,
(dare I say stupid?) pronouncement out of your post, completely.  In the 
absence of supporting documentation, and in the face of what I have 
posted on this thread, your statement is without justification or merit.

Mathew has a solid opinion, too, but he at least didn't claim to have 
information that he can't produce.  He just implies that measures such as 
1)eminence in science, 2)listings in the _Who's Who_, 3)comparing levels of 
belief between student bodies of different quality, 4)comparing levels of 
belief among highly accomplished students, and 4) comparing belief and 
educational attainment, don't mean anything (especially since IQ tests 
don't work).  

A regression line summary of all the studies I posted displays 
*a negative correlation between intelligence and belief in god.*
Show me how your opinion is justified in the light of this.  
Show me some evidence.  Show me something besides your obtuse, pigheaded 
refusal to make even a passing reference to the evidence arrayed against 
you, to the fact that almost every study I posted arrived at exactly the 
opposite opinion from your own.  

  ,...,.,,
 /666;    ',    jim tims
////;    _~ -   p00168@psilink.com
(/@/----0-~-0
 ;'  . `` ~ \'
  , `    ' , >
;;|\..((   -C----> What you seem to require is that there be no way to tell
;;| >-  `.__),;;   whether anyone is any smarter than anybody else, period.