HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: AL Cy Young update
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 03:29:29 GMT


Two of the three pitchers with the best records went against each
other tonight.  McDowell (16-7) pitched a complete game shutout, his
first, beating Brown (16-8) to take the league lead in W-L.
(Actually, they are tied in wins, but most newspapers list pitchers
with the first sort on wins, the second sort on reverse losses, and
the third sort alphabetically.  So McDowell will now appear at the top
of that list, which is more significant than it should be.)

In other action, Clemens (15-7) blanked the Angels.  He didn't have
his best stuff, but allowed only 4 hits and 3 walks in the complete
game.  He hit one batter and struck out eight.

Clemens now leads the league in ERA (2.10), strikeouts (164), and
shutouts (5).  His next closest competition is Guzman in ERA (2.35),
Perez in K's (157), and Darling/Mussina/Nagy in shutouts (3).

Clemens is fourth in W-L (behind McDowell, Brown, and Morris (15-5)),
is second with 9 CG (behind McDowell with 10), and is at least second
in innings with 197.1 IP.  (Brown had 191.1 starting tonight, and I
don't know how many innings he pitched.)

If McDowell, Brown, and Morris all lose their next start, Clemens
could possibly take the league lead in all of the above categories.

Unbiasedly yours,
-Valentine

P.S. I think Fleming beat Baltimore behind Buhner's HR.  That would
make him fifth in the league with a 14-5 record.  Good enough for ROY?
-- 
Ob. woof: Clemens is the best pitcher ever!	tedward@cs.cornell.edu
From: grabiner@math.harvard.edu (David Grabiner)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Cy Young Update
Date: 20 Aug 92 15:51:39 GMT
Article-I.D.: zariski.GRABINER.92Aug20115233
 <1992Aug19.163607.4838@news.stolaf.edu><1992Aug19.183127.10383@honte.uleth.ca>
Organization: Harvard University Dept. of Mathematics
In-reply-to: savoy@hg.uleth.ca's message of Wed, 19 Aug 1992 18:31:27 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.183127.10383@honte.uleth.ca>, Jim Savoy writes:

>> In article <1992Aug19.163607.4838@news.stolaf.edu>, alvstad@mari.acc-admin.stolaf.edu (Joel D Alvstad) writes:

>>The Cy is the award for the pitchers, the MVP should be the award for the 
>>players...

> I agree. But to be fair, they'd have to rename the MVP award MVH (Most
> Valuable Hitter). Personally, I would like to see 3 honors given out each
> year: Cy Young, MVH (or whatever - maybe the Ruth Trophy) and the MVP (the
> last one being the least neccesary).

> At least this would rid the voting of the controversies each year (some
> writer's will not vote a pitcher for MVP and therefore he unjustly loses
> votes).

Actually, no sportswriter is unwilling to consider pitchers for the MVP.
There have been many years in which a pitcher was listed on every
voter's ballot; I believe nobody placed Guidry in 1978 lower than third.

This is an inconsistent position; if you believe that a pitcher should
not be eligible for the MVP, he should not be listed second or tenth.
If you believe that he should and that he is the player who is most
valuable to his team, then he should be first on your ballot.


--
David Grabiner, grabiner@zariski.harvard.edu
"We are sorry, but the number you have dialed is imaginary."
"Please rotate your phone 90 degrees and try again."
Disclaimer: I speak for no one and no one speaks for me.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: kirsch@epx.cis.umn.edu (Dave Nobody Kirsch)
Subject: Re: 1992 r.s.bb Mock Expansion Draft - Update #2
Organization: Paul Spoljaric mean-and-nasty club
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 15:40:22 GMT

In article <19244@ector.cs.purdue.edu> gritter@cs.purdue.EDU (Carl 'not to be
confused with John Ritter' Gritter) writes:
>In article  <1992Aug12.175750.13011@news2.cis.umn.edu> kirsch@epx.cis.umn.edu (Dave Metromuffinized Kirsch) writes:
>>to the draft, with two exceptions (1) Players that were signed at age 19 or 
>>older and have less than three years of professional experience are
>>implicitly protected and (2) Players signed at age 18 or younger with less
>>than four years of professional experience are implicitly protected.
>
>Isn't it true that if a player that falls under category 1 or 2 is
>brought up to the majors, he loses this "implicit" protection?

  Yes. Thanks for the addendum, Carl. I'll add it to the next post. 

>The Cardinals are leaving a Cuban pitcher named Arocha at AAA this
>year for this exact reason.  For the same reason, the Expos will not
>call up super pitching prospect Tavo Alvarez (now at AA -- would be a
>bit premature anyways) until next year at the earliest.  If this were
>not true, pitcher Chris Haney (now at Indy) would not have to be
>protected even though he was on the Expos opening day roster.

  Agreed, and I think because of this very reason we'll see fewer hot
prospects getting the call up in September. If a player's already implicitly
protected because of his status, no way in hell is any team gonna bring up 
the kid. It's just not worth the risk. 

-- 
Dave Hung Like a Jim Acker Slider Kirsch            kirsch@epx.cis.umn.edu 
"Blue Jays - break my heart again in '92"                Jeff Kent for ROY
"I believe virtually everything I read, and I think that is what makes me
   MORE of a selective human" - Joe Average, baseball fan and media puppet
From: sefton@cs.ucsd.edu (Paul Piccirillo)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Say it's so! Baseball in Tampa Bay!!!
Date: 13 Aug 92 02:42:27 GMT
Organization: UC San Diego, AMES Department


I've been reading a lot about the (impending) sale of the Giants to Tampa
Bay in the last few days.  I thought I might make a comment or three.

First of all, a lot of people have been blaming the S.F. fans for not
supporting their team.  This may be so, but since when does supporting a
team mean bankrupting your city to keep them?  San Francisco, and in fact
just about every big city in America has lots of problems right now.  Why
should the city (i.e. the taxpayers) have to fork out the dough to keep a
team in town?  I know why they do, because the owners play the cities off
against each other, but why should they?  If they don't own the team, they
shouldn't have to pay for a stadium.  It seems to me that the Bay area
rejecting all those publicly funded stadiums was a wise move by the voters.
Bob Lurie has plenty of money.  He doesn't need a $100 million dollar 
subsidy.  Now Lurie is planning to sell the team.  However, if the
news I read here is correct, at least one offer to buy the team, with no
public money involved, is in the works.  If this pans out, then the Giants
will stay in S.F. with no taxpayer cost, which is how it should be.  If not, 
well, then I'm sorry, but the Floridians just bought your team.

Which leads me to my second point.  I grew up in a city which lost not one,
but two major leagure baseball franchises (can you guess which city this is?).
All through my formative years I heard people grousing about the Senators 
leaving, Griffith and Short being jerks, etc.  But the quality of life in 
D.C. was not affected in the least.  We all picked new teams to root for
(mostly the Orioles).  And now, D.C. is aching to have a new team.  In the 
long run, does it matter if they succeed?  Not really.  Washington has 
existed for 20 years without a team, and will continue to do so.  So, I guess
my point is: lighten up!  If you lose your team, S.F. won't fall into the 
ocean.  You still have a local team (hate them though you may).  You can
certainly still hate the Dodgers (although it's hard to hate a team as
laughable as they are this year).  Heck, if you really don't want to go
watch the A's, you can go to San Jose and watch minor league ball (San 
Jose is closer to S.F. than Hagarstown is to D.C.).

Well, just my two cents worth.

Paul Piccirillo
e-mail sefton@ames.ucsd.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: TW.N82@isumvs.iastate.edu (BOB.PEDERSEN)
Subject: RE: Canada's National Team
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 16:06:33 GMT

It could be that the national popularity of jays/esxpos will ebb and
flos (flow) with the realative success of the two teams.  In the
state where I live, the followings of the two major schools come and
go over time.  Although the expos are doing really well right now,
this has not recently been the pattern.  Assuming the Canadian
Federal union stays together, Montreal bay may be "Canada'as team"
in a few years.

Sorry for the many typos -- the editor I'm at won't let me
backspace.
--
Bob Pedersen
Recent graduate and flunkie, Iowa State University
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: J056600@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Subject: Who will Giants protect?  (was Re:  Expansion Draft)
Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space Company, Inc.
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 21:26:08 GMT

In <16rk15INN7ah@agate.berkeley.edu>, Henry Y. Wong writes:

>In article <-8qmd!f.mzimmers@netcom.com> mzimmers@netcom.com (Michael Zimmers)

>(position by position discussions deleted)

>>One does get up to 15 in a hurry, doesn't one?  This leaves Trevor
>>Wilson (yeah I know), Brantley, Heredia and Olivares from the pitching
>>staff,

Well, there's one less to deal with.  Heredia won't even be available now--
at least not from the Giants.  Heredia has just been traded to the Expos for
a minor-league infielder.  Not a big loss, I might add.

I'm tired of Brantley.  He only knows how to pitch once he gets himself into
a bases-loaded jam--and even then, he sometimes fails.  Brantley doesn't know
how to pitch when there are any bases without runners on them.  Ulcer City.


Tim Irvin  j056600@lmsc5.is.lmsc.lockheed.com
****************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: alvstad@mari.acc-admin.stolaf.edu (Joel D Alvstad)
Subject: Re: Astacio Shuts Out Mets for Dodger Win
Organization: St. Olaf College; Northfield, MN
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 09:08:16 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.060829.2269@leland.Stanford.EDU> claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
>In article <l93oneINNqqk@mizar.usc.edu> pcaster@mizar.usc.edu (Dodger) writes:
>
>>The Dodgers are showing their look of the future, and
>>suddenly, things don't look quite so bad.  Karros
>>has all but sewn up Rookie of the Year honors, Rodriquez
>
>Not so fast.  Moises Alou is a rookie as well, and his performance has been
>much better than Karros'.  (Although Karros does have the glamour stats that
>the mediots see.)  Up to last Monday, these are their stats:
>
>Karros:		.299 OBP, .464 SLG
>Alou:		.339 OBP, .467 SLG
>
>And Alou plays a tougher position, and plays it very well.
>
>===============================================================================
>GO CALIFORNIA ANGELS!
>===============================================================================
>Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Reggie Sanders of the ever slumping Reds a
rookie as well??  I don't know how he has done as of late, though.

As for Karros, the chance is there, but I think Alou gets ROY in the NL.  Any
one of them would probably win in the AL unless Seattle's Fleming pulls together
a few more wins...

Joel Alvstad
St. Olaf College
Northfield, MN
alvstad@stolaf.edu

TWINS 1992--Back 2 Back (?)
From: spira@panix.com (Greg "Sarcasm Is A Way Of Life" Spira)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Dream Team
Date: 14 Aug 92 16:18:33 GMT
Organization: Boo!

In <1992Aug14.061619.21889@cs.cornell.edu> tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer) writes:

>In article <1992Aug14.045241.4293@news.stolaf.edu> alvstad@mari.acc-admin.stolaf.edu (Joel D Alvstad) writes:
>>
>>Has Cone ever been tossed from a LCS game for uttering obscenities towards the
>>umpire???

>If you were actually watching that game, you *know* how blown out of
>proportion the entire incident was.  Terry Cooney was doing a shitty
>job of calling the balls and strikes, and he knew it.  Roger visibly
>mumbled something.  Cooney confronted him, and Roger repeated those
>same words to Cooney's face.  Cooney tossed him.

>Not that Clemens wasn't at fault.  There are certain things you simply
>don't do.  One of them is swear at (instead of "about") an umpire.
>Even when they deserve it, which Cooney did.  That sequence of calls
>on Canseco was a joke! 

According to the lip reader the Players Association hired to defend Clemens,
I don't believe Clemens cursed out the umpire until AFTER Clemens had been
thrown out.  This testimony was accepted and not disputed by Fay Vincent,
who decided that the umpires were correct despite the fact that their version
of the incident was probably nonsense.

Greg 




-- 
  spira@panix.com       "The one-O delivery to Fisk.  He swings.  Long drive,  
 cmcl2!panix!spira      left field!  If it stays fair, it's gone!  Home Run!"  
158-17 Riverside Dr.                     Ned Martin, 10/22/75   
Whitestone NY 11357          (Insert your favorite baseball moment here) 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Re: Oriole News
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 21:58:40 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.165033.3490@island.COM> fester@island.COM (Mike Fester) writes:
>>
>>Besides, when you are batting cleanup, it is not that difficult to be in the
>>top 10 in RBIs! 
>
>Hmm, someone should have told that to the cleanup hitters last year. From
>last year:
>
>AL					
>Fielder 133 -	#4 slot all year
>Canseco 122-   	never batted cleanup all year
>Sierra  116 -	70 games at cleanup vs 59 for Franco!
>Ripken  114 - 	never batted cleanup all year
>Thomas  109 -   21 games at cleanup vs 59 for Fisk, 71 for Pasqua; mostly #3
>Carter  108 - 	42 games at cleanup vs 62 for Olerud
>Gonzalez 102 -	20 games at cleanup; mostly #5
>Ventura  100 - 	1 game at cleanup; mostly a #2 hitter
>Griffey 100 - 	5 games at cleanup, vs 27 for Buhner, 20 for Davis...
>Tartabull 100 - 120 games at cleanup

Okay, modify that statement.  If you are a #4 or #3 hitter, it is not
all that difficult to get 100 RBIs.

The only players on the above list who spent significant time batting
elsewhere are Gonzalez and Ventura.

>So, in the top 10 in both leagues, there are 4 primarily cleanup hitters, 10
>primarily #3 hitters, with the rest either in the #2/#5 slots, or bouncing
>around in the lineup. Looks like if you bat in the *number THREE* slot, it's
>not as difficult. Course, usually, you have to be a pretty decent hitter to
>be the #3 hitter on your team.

Actually, I think RBIs are slightly easier in the #4 slot than in the
#3 slot.  But most of the really great hitters bat #3, which might
explain why so many of the 100+ RBI guys bat third in the lineup.

>>Pete O'Brien had a thoroughly horrible season last season, but he had
>81 RBIs.
>
>Which of course, left him FAR short of being in the top ten. In fact, he
>barely made the top 20 with *88* RBIs, not 81 (he tied for 19th).

Still a pretty impressive showing for such a bad hitter.

Cheers,
-Valentine
-- 
Ob. woof: Clemens is the best pitcher ever!	tedward@cs.cornell.edu
From: kenf@siksika.slip.uiuc.edu (Ken Fortenberry)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Contacting the Commish
Date: 13 Aug 92 22:17:27 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.Bsy0L5.2zo
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

In article <16ea5sINNnp6@hal.com> dougm@hal.com (Doug Moran) writes:
> Rather than send a form letter through a newspaper, I would prefer to
> write the Commisioner directly.  Does anyone have a business address
> where I can do so?  Thanks.

Office of the Commissioner
350 Park Avenue
New York, NY 10022

--
Ken Fortenberry        | Internet: kenf@siksika.slip.uiuc.edu
404 West Church Street | UUCP: uunet!uiuc.edu!kenf
Champaign, IL    61820 | Phone: (217) 398-1183
From: brucek@Ingres.COM (Bruce Kleinman)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Attention: Reds Fans
Date: 18 Aug 92 17:46:04 GMT
Reply-To: brucek@Ingres.COM (Bruce Kleinman)
Organization: Ask Computer Systems Inc., Ingres Division, Alameda CA 94501

In article <1992Aug18.152038.3225@cis.ohio-state.edu> miked@cis.ohio-state.edu (Michael Davey) writes:
>	                                                ...  Morris will be
>	back on Friday and hopefully provide some punch right away...

What have you heard about Morris?  He's eligible to come back Thursday
or Friday, but last I heard, he was expected to remain out until
September.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: jkl@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (jon.k.lyons)
Subject: Dodgers' Gross no-hits Giants!
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories - Holmdel, NJ
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 20:45:57 GMT
Summary: Reports of a Giants sweep were a bit premature

Just when you're ready to write-off the season, (at least the recent 4-game
series against the Tampa-St. Pete Giants) and what does Kevin Gross go
and do but throw a no-hitter!  Youza, that must have been some gem!  All I 
saw was the box score (no runs, no hits, 2 walks, no errors).  Does anyone
have any details?


-- 
Jon Lyons                                            jon.k.lyons@att.com
AT&T Bell Laboratories                               att!jon.k.lyons
From: randall@informix.com (Randall Rhea)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Cy Young Update
Date: 17 Aug 92 22:41:04 GMT
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.

tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer) writes:


>The only Cy Young contender to start tonight was Kevin Appier.  He
>pitched a complete game for the loss, giving up three runs.  (I
>believe they were all earned.)  This drops his record to 13-5, and
>raises his ERA to a *horrible* 2.36!  :-)

>Appier is 32.2 innings above a 2.00 ERA.  Clemens, with two fewer ER,
>only needs back-to-back shutouts (one of them a 10-inning job) to drop
>his ERA below 2.  Both are unlikely, but not impossible.

Right now, Eckersley is the leading candidate for the Cy Young and perhaps
MVP also.   I doubt that Appier will win 20, since he would need to
win almost all of his remaining starts.  The A's are 49-0 in games where 
he's appeared ...  not too shabby.


-- 

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Randall Rhea                                        Informix Software, Inc. 
Project Manager, MIS Sales/Marketing Systems    uunet!pyramid!infmx!randall
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: fester@island.COM (Mike Fester)
Subject: Re: Say it's so! Baseball in Tampa Bay!!!
Organization: /usr/local/rn/organization
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 15:44:18 GMT

In article <36732@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> demers@cs.ucsd.edu (David DeMers) writes:
>In article <1992Aug11.195933.25455@panix.com> spira@panix.com (Greg "Sarcasm Is A Way Of Life" Spira) writes:

>I always enjoyed the weekday businessperson's specials.  Two blocks
>down Sutter to the ballpark express; sunshine, lousy hot dogs, beer,
>then whisked right back to the office.  But you're right, unless you
>are traveling from downtown or Van Ness & Clay, you can't get there
>without a car very easily.

Yeah, I always liked the weekday games as well; traffic on 101 isn't NEARLY
as bad that time of day and the weather is MUCH better. Unfortunately, you 
can't fill a park (usually) on the "business-man" crowd.

>It is just as easy to get to an A's game from the middle of San Francisco
>as it is to get to the Stick.

I'd say you are understating the situation a bit. BART stops right in front
of the Coliseum. 

Supposedly, Alioto has put together financing for a downtown stadium. We'll
see. Grousback stated that the he projected the Giants would lose several
million dollars a year in the 'Stick, and that's why he didn't make an offer.

Mike
-- 
Disclaimer - These opiini^H^H damn! ^H^H ^Q ^[ .... :w  :q  :wq  :wq! ^d  X ^?
exit X Q  ^C ^? :quitbye  CtrlAltDel   ~~q  :~q  logout  save/quit :!QUIT
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man help ^C ^c help exit ?Quit ?q CtrlShftDel "Hey, what does this button d..."
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: dae@cbnews.cb.att.com (david.a.elliott)
Subject: Re: Mets draft protection
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 13:25:59 GMT

In article <19AUG199217224028@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu> hasch@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu (Bruce M Hasch) writes:
>Donnels might be a legit player, but he's 27.  He's 
>a third baseman by trade, but can play second as well.  If I remember right,
>his minor league stats showed that he could hit for a good average (~.300) and 
>that he had drawn a lot of walks in the minors.  He doesn't have much power,
>though.  I don't know what his defensive reputation is, but I saw him make
>a few nice plays in the series last week against Pittsburgh.  

Donnels doesn't have great power numbers, but recently he hit the longest 
home run I've ever seen hit at Cooper Stadium in Columbus.  It was so far
out of the park in right field that I lost sight of it.  Based on the
outfield distance marking, it was probably pushing 450 feet.  He followed
this up with a 400 foot double in his next at bat.

I haven't seen him play too much, but that night he sure looked like a
major league hitter.


Dave Elliott
From: cubsfan@camelot.bradley.edu (Michael Silverman)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Dream team for baseball?
Date: 15 Aug 92 20:14:30 GMT
Organization: Priests of the Temples of Syrinx



In <1656g0INN9nn@malibog.hal.COM> rc@hal.COM (Rolland Crunk) writes:


>Not a bad team. If there was a baseball dream team this year, I would 
>pick the following lineup:

>1B	John Kruk

Always overlooked!!!!! I'll take McGriff over Kruk anyday! AND I'm not
prejudiced- I have both on my Rotisserie team :-)

>2B	Ryne Sandberg
>SS	Mike Bordick

Nah.....Ripken having a bad year is better than Bordick having a career
year.

>3B	Gary Sheffield
>LF	Ken Griffey jr.
>CF	Kirby Puckett
>RF	Andy Van Slyke	
>C	Bryan Harper
>DH	Frank Thomas
>SP	David Cone, Roger Clemens, Tom Glavine, 	
>	Jack McDowell, Juan Guzman, Kevin Brown 

I take Maddux over McDowell. Better numbers in every category.
 
>RP	Dennis Eckersley, Norm Charlton, Lee Smith, Rick Aguilera

Too bad Harvey's career is ruined. He had the potential to be better
than the Eck.


--
cubsfan@camelot.bradley.edu

"One likes to believe in the freedom of baseball" - Geddy Lee
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Red Sox offensive woes
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 19:17:14 GMT


The Red Sox were shut out twice last week, scoring a total of only 25
runs in eight games.  They managed to win only twice, on dominating
performances by Clemens and Darwin.  This raises their season totals
to a league-leading 434 runs in 118 games, for an average of 3.7 R/G.
This projects to 596 runs for the season.

However, I *believe* the starters have all received better run support
than that.  Of the starters listed in BB Weekly, Clemens has received
the least support at 3.99 Sup/9.  (Clemens, Hesketh, Dopson, and Viola
are listed.)

The Sox simply haven't scored in the later innings very often.  A sign
of a weak bench and idiot manager?  Perhaps.  Pinch hitting Rivera for
Plantier (and Winningham for anybody) on a regular basis has got to
hurt!

Quik Quiz: Name the following player (stats through the All-Star break)...
BA/OBP/SLG      G  AB  R  H 2B 3B HR RBI BB  K SB-CS
.201/.316/.271 85 299 35 50  8  1  4  29 51 69  2-0

Cheers,
-Valentine
-- 
Ob. woof: Clemens is the best pitcher ever!	tedward@cs.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball