From: v075q5fr@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Scott J Gorcey)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
Subject: Re: Natives Down the River (was re: ALIEN^3 Eggs on Sulaco)
Date: 16 Aug 92 23:46:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <4815@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP>, seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu (Sea Wasp) writes...
>In article <Bt1nqH.EBw@acsu.buffalo.edu> v075q5fr@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Scott J Gorce
y) writes:

>>     of ALIENS.  But you can't.  Because they are not chapters in a 
>>     serial, but separate movies - to be taken separately; to be taken
>>     as non-linear sequels, even.  

>	Sorry, dude, that's one of the more ridiculous things you've said.
>So far you were arguing in a fairly reasonable manner; I just don't agree.

     Perhaps I didn't phrase it correctly, but I see you've given me the
     chance to make my point again, below; maybe I can do it better...

>>     I think that's symptomatic of why so many people failed to
>>     appreciate ALIEN^3: too many of you wanted, needed, expected
>>     another two and a half hours to attach onto the end of ALIENS,
>>     and when you didn't get it, you threw tantrums.

>	Look. If you have a movie which uses a prior background, uses the
>same actors, same name, and same designs, you SHOULD expect that this
>sequel has SOMETHING to do with the previous movies. That was what made
>ALIENS *WORK*! It took the original movie and took it off in another direction
>while NOT ignoring what had previously happened. Ripley was still Ripley,
>the Alien ship was still hanging out on the planet, continuity was 
>preserved, etc.

     ALIENS virtually ignored the first movie.  Instead of an ominous,
     monolithic, imposing entity simply known as THE COMPANY - and
     lifted neatly from the pages of Conrad's HEART OF DARKNESS - you
     have IBM and Mitsubishi in ALIENS - complete with the whiny, backbiting,
     but not scary, Burke (Paul Riser).  
     Cameron changed what continuity he wanted between the first movie and
     his; he changed the alien life cycle you people like to talk about so
     much; he changed just about everything -- but since you liked the
     movie, it doesn't matter.

>	When I went to see Empire Strikes Back, I expected to see something
>connected with Star Wars. When I went to see Star Trek x, I expected to see
>a movie that used the Star Trek background in the proper manner. When
>I went to see Rocky II, I did not expect to see Rocky change professions
>without explanation, or have been the heavyweight title holder for
>years on end. 

     You mean that when you went to see part II of what was always billed
     from the beginning as a multi-part epic -- you expected PART II..?
     No!  Really?  Listen, what I meant was that ALIEN and ALIENS each
     told complete stories - self-contained.  No loose ends.  The only
     impetus to do a sequel came from their boxoffice - not from a 
     diegetic storyline need.  
     Therefore, nothing that happened in ALIEN^3 can destroy what you loved
     so much about ALIENS.  Okay, I understand that you expected to see
     a continuation of Hicks and Newt, et al, but this has always been
     Ripley's story, and she has always had to "begin the begin" ALONE.
     She started ALIENS so alone even all her friends and family were
     dead.  ALIEN^3 was arguably worse: she went to sleep thinking all
     was well, had a horrible dream, and woke up in a nightmare.
     How can you possibly say this isn't in keeping with the other two
     films?

>	A sequel is EXPECTED to follow up on what the prior movies did.
>That is its JOB in part. ALIEN^3 fell down on the job there. If they
>wanted an entirely independent movie, they could have called it "killer
>from space" and used a different cast. Fine. But they didn't. They made
>it an "ALIEN" film and as such were obligated to pay attention to the
>prior films. Even if you LOATHED ALIENS, they were duty bound to do 
>one of three things:

>	1) Follow up on ALIENS. This is what they made it APPEAR they were
>doing, and did very, very badly.

     Funny, I was under the impression that ALIEN^3 spent plenty of time
     and emotional energy dealing with Newt.  Fully forty-five minutes,
     in fact, from the first montage to the funeral.  So much emotion
     and energy - which flowed over into the music (which changed drastically
     during the second half of the film, to return to the Holst-inspired
     death-theme at the end) and shooting style - was spent that the very
     next shot after the funeral sequence is Ripley wiping away a steamy
     mirror -- she's taking a cleansing shower, washing away the mess that
     she woke up to...
     Sorry, ALIEN^3 does anything BUT ignore ALIENS, from a story perspective.
     You're just pissed because of WHAT KIND of attention ALIEN^3 GAVE the
     remnants of ALIENS.

>	2) Ignore ALIENS (rather as Star Trek 2 ignored ST I), and begin
>after ALIEN, if they wanted to use Ripley.

     First of all, I can imagine how much you and others would have bitched
     if ^3 took place before ALIENS... you would have said the SAME things:
     what about Hicks, what about the marines, what about the Sulaco and
     Bishop... etc.  Tough shit.  You didn't make this movie.  You have the
     attitude that you could have done it better - but you couldn't.

>	3) Ignore ALIEN and have an entirely separate cast meet the little
>bastards.

     ALIEN 4 is probably in active development (with a severely cut-down
     budget, since ^3 made no money...) at Fox as we speak... don't worry,
     you'll get your way... and please, let's chat after this film is
     out... I assure you, it will be more like ALIENS (because people like
     you bitch when there aren't enough guns to go round).

>	Alien^3, done as the last one, would have been a tolerable movie.
>Not a GREAT movie, but tolerable.

     Oh give it a rest... or do me a favor and give me some REAL
     criticism of ALIEN^3.  You're busy bitching about what you think
     the movie should have been, but the depth of your bitching suggests
     you've seen only the commercials.  
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