HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gperkins@netcom.com (Glen C. Perkins)
Subject: Re: more on car jacking
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 18:46:32 GMT


>>(Deleted discussion about whether to stay or exit auto when confronted
>>with hammer wielding assailant on passenger side.)

If someone tries to get in your car and opens one of the doors,
it seems to me that shifting into reverse and punching the
accelerator (a very short burst) would be a good alternative
to going forward if you can't drive forward for some reason
such as other traffic.  You'd only have to move about 3 or 4
feet for the open door to knock the assailant off his feet.
I personally would have no hesitation to then run right over
him if I possibly could, but these situations are so varied
and so insanely dangerous that I can't imagine any single
"right" answer. He might still be able to shoot and kill me
from his position on the ground, shooting right through the
car door and car seat.

Most carjackings seem to be from the driver's side and using
guns, not hammers. If you can get out, do it as fast as you can
and run!! but leave your keys or else they'll chase you!

If they want you to stay in the car, do some quick thinking.
Perhaps wait for a couple of minutes to see what they intend,
but not much longer. Jump out at an intersection if you can
and run toward the back of the car (and keep going of course!)
It's much harder for him/them to target you if you are behind
them. He'll/they'll probably just go forward to get away.

I've heard the police say "whatever you do, DON'T ever allow
an assailant to take you somewhere else! If you're not sure
whether to submit to their demands or fight in an assault
situation, use your best judgement leaning toward submission.
If they tell you that you won't be hurt if you just get
in the car and go with them, they've made the decision for
you: fight!  They have no intention of taking you someplace
more advantageous to them, just to let you go!"
-- 
+-----------------------+---------------------------------------------------+
|--- Glen C. Perkins ---|                                                   |
| <gperkins@netcom.com> |             "Don't forget, your mind              |
| Native Guide Software |              only *simulates* logic."             |
| Palo Alto, California |                                                   |
+-----------------------+---------------------------------------------------+

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: ACC00LTR@UNCCVM.UNCC.EDU (Leonard T Roberts)
Subject: Re: Just Curious...
Organization: UNC Charlotte
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 16:27:38 GMT

In article <BzpH8u.3qx@eis.calstate.edu>
jlockha@eis.calstate.edu (Jame A Lockhart) writes:
 
>>
>> What's the "buckler" in sword-and-buckler?
>> --
>> Richard A. Drury
>> drury@helix.nih.gov
>
>I always thought a buckler was merely a shield.  Possibly with ridges on
>it to "buckle" the opponents sword...yes...no?
 
To the best of my memory, without looking anything up, a buckler is a small
shield, about the size of a dinnerplate or smaller. Often they had a spike
in the center that was sharp and used offensively in conjunction with the
play of the sword.
 
Len Roberts
/*------------------------------------------------------------------/*
/* ACC00LTR@UNCCVM - BITNET            "If only REAL life was like  /*
/* ACC00LTR@UNCCVM.UNCC.EDU - INTERNET  this..." - Count Duckula    /*
/*------------------------------------------------------------------/*
From: don@helix.nih.gov (donald seto)
Subject: Re: Kendo Newbie Question
Organization: National Institutes of Health, Bethesda
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 22:08:01 GMT

In article <1992Dec30.162306.12192@cbfsb.cb.att.com> osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X) writes:
>In article <hurd.725661494@sfu.ca> hurd@fraser.sfu.ca (Peter L. Hurd) writes:
>>Hi, I'm planning on taking up Kendo after an intercontinental move this
>>month, and have some questions.
>>
>>Like,
>>
>>  What will I be expected to bring to the dojo?  Will a gi suffice or is
>>armour required?  If armour is required is it wisest to buy it in Sweden,
>>or might it be cheaper to buy it in Vancouver and mail it across?  Same Q
>>for other obvious equipment (such as the bamboo sword whose propper name
>>keeps falling out of my head).
>
>	You will probably not need the armor for a while since you should
>	be spending your first month or two (at least!) learning the basic
>	strikes (not as easy as it sounds).  If they have you a	xabanging away

make sure they offer kendo in the area that you are moving into.
you just need a shinai for the first 3-6 months,
then the armor if you're still interested.  it's best to get custom 
fitted stuff...try 

kaori tanabe
eguchi budo equip 
601 e. del mar #504
pasadena, ca 91101 

818-577-9646

the prices are reasonable.      
and the catalog's nice to have too.

--
don@helix.nih.gov
301-402-0580   Bldg10/Rm8D14    NIDDK/NIH       Bethesda, MD  20892
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: akif@sequent.com (Aki Fleshler)
Subject: Re: Agreed: rec.martial-arts hierarchy
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc.
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 92 21:05:45 GMT

In article <BzJIMI.JHJ@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> shulick@navajo.ucs.indiana.edu writes:
>
>I think we should really break up this group.  martial arts as a term is
>so general.  hapkido, judo, 200 types of karate, gun-fu, PCP-fu.. :)
>This is just a little suggestion, no need to flame. :)
>rec.martial-arts.hapkido  -  Hapkido discussions
>                 judo     -  Judo, obviously..
>                 karate   -  all styles of karate..
>                 hype     -  martial-art bullshit like super ninjas and 
>                             catching bullets. :)
>                 western  -  Western martial arts.. knives, guns,
>                             general non-Asian combat
>                 misc     -   Anything else.
>I say we do it! :)  Let's get this baby sorted out so it's more
>efficiently read..

I'm against it. Even though I'm very single-minded about pursuing my own
art, the particular choice of art is probably a historical accident. I'm
very interested in what goes on amongst my brethern and sistern, no matter
what Way you are following. Breaking up into lots of dinky groups would 
dilute the value of this group in keeping my mind open.

-- 
Aki Fleshler                                  * akif@sequent.com
Sequent Computer Systems Inc.                 * (503) 578-4570
15450 SW Koll Parkway, RHE2-775               * FAX (503) 578-7569
Beaverton OR 97006-6063                       *
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: wag5@quads.uchicago.edu (john peter wagner)
Subject: Spiritual<->Physical
Reply-To: wag5@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 05:37:46 GMT

	I was very interested by the Indian(Asian) person's writing
of the Indian martial arts.  Buddha using Indian techniques in developing
the East Asian precursor to modern martial arts means something.  It would
strike me that the Religion and the martial art would have much in common.
	Why is this? The martial art is a discipline. Many people would
laugh at the training of students of the martial arts-saying it is a
waste of time, that one could be enjoying onesself instead.  The same
thing is true of devotees to a religion-who would try to study the seemingly
absurd rituals and statements of the prophets or leaders of the religion.
There are people who laugh at a black belt and his trouble-pointing
out there $50 .25 caliber pistol in comparison, even as there are people
who laugh at 'holy rollers' or the like, pointing out the outdated need
for such internal policing given the developed and advanced modern
police state.
	The 'masters' in both religion and martial-arts, it seems to me,
have realized the depth of their medium, and the limit,and have probed further,
exploring new realms to master to expand their own religion or martial art.
Once they have created new, found new things, they communicate these to
the 'unenlightened,' or those who have not yet attained true understanding,
through the only available medium.  It is these communications 'from above'
which the uninitiated study to try to gain mastery. Many, it seems, would
fail to grasp the meaning of the communication, perhaps misinterpret it,
and in their misinterpretation or lack of understanding branch off from
or form a mystical type group, in which the form and not the essence is
emphasized, also as in religion.
	Finally, both religious belief and martial-arts are self disciplinary
systems.  Like grasping for the sweat falling from the Jesus or the
(MA-master), we initiates seek this unknown thing. In the MA, the goal
may be perfection of mental control of the body.  In religion, also, it seems,
there often arises the need for the mind to control the Earthly mind, or the
body.  Thus, both religion and MA are linked, if perhaps the MA initiates
would choose to focus on the apparent benefit to masters of the physical
combative nature rather than some other benefits.

				John
				wag5@midway.uchicago.edu
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: poor technique
Date: 28 Dec 92 16:51:11 GMT
Organization: UniSQL, Inc., Austin, Texas, USA

In article <JON.92Dec14165354@zeus.med.utah.edu> jon@zeus.med.utah.edu (Jonathan Byrd) writes:
>Some competitors will let their blows penetrate just a little past the
>contact point.  These blows are often fast, powerful, and accurate.
>The only thing "poor" about them is the fact that they make contact,
>which is against the rules.  Rules notwithstanding, hard contact

	To my way of thinking, deliberately disregarding agreed upoun
rules to hurt your opponent is poor technique, in fact, it's the worst
possible technique.  

	Many years ago I was at a judo tournament on the East Coast.
One competitor was winning most of his matches with a standing arm lock:
he'd snap on some variation of wake-gatame and throw himself to the mat.
He'd do this with such speed and disregard for the safety of his opponent
that he broke two arms before the other person had time to surrender.  He
was more concerned with winning the match than with anything else.  Yes,
his technique was very good, since even when people knew what to expect
he'd still break their arms.  Yes, his technique was very bad, since he
could not apply it in safe and controlled manner.

>Now I *know* you're pulling my leg.

	Not at all.  Since a karate blow is supposed to smash bone and
flesh - aren't you taught to punch right through targets? - how _could_
you have a real full contact match unless it was to the death?  Either
you're pulling your punches and fighting by rules - like we do in judo - 
or karate techniques are not powerful enough to need to be diluted for
competition.  Or do you train to armor yourself against your own art,
the way Thai boxers do?


Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X)
Subject: Re: bear hug variation
Organization: Twilight Zone
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 17:05:20 GMT

In article <4421@unisql.UUCP> wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) writes:
>In article <1992Dec21.201402.2852@cbfsb.cb.att.com> osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X) writes:
>>	Uh... exactly HOW is your head supposed to wind up in the floor
>>	when he has grabbed you whilst you were upright?  
>
>	He's using his whole body as a weapon, and he doesn't need eyes
>since at this point he's operating by feel.

	This works well for a slam, but may be less effective for the march
	into a wall.
>
>	If you relax as totally as you suggest, wouldn't the guy just
>switch to a chicken wing (a wrestling move like a hammerlock but with
>the arm bent at a much more acute angle) or some other joint attack?

	Hopefully, this is exactly what he'll do.  Once he releases you,
	your escape is as good as made, if you know what you're doing.
	At this point I suppose it is anybodies fight.

	-Andy V.


From: Stovall@f88.n106.z1.fidonet.org (Stovall)
Sender: Jpunix@urchin.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Stupid Religious Views
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 21:18:06 -0500

Quoting Kahled Kahn, Steve Gombosi writes:

SG>>the martial arts should be a religious belief comming origionally
SG>>from the middle-east.  i would immagine that the buddhist beliefs
SG>>around which most martial arts were developed would lend more
SG>>aid in the understanding and mastery of the arts.

SG>Which arts? Many Silat styles have a strong Muslim emphasis. Aikido
and
SG>many kenjutsu systems have significant Shinto components. There are
SG>Buddhist, Taoist, and *MUSLIM* Chinese boxing systems...

What about the influence of Confucianism on the Korean martial arts,
Christianity on boxing and television on professional wrestling? <bfg>

It seems to me that some of us are getting philosophy and religion
mixed up: both offer behaviorial codes, one requires acknowledgement
of a deity. I don't think belief in a deity is an intrinsic part
of any martial art.

Off the soapbox, back into the dobok,

Tom
___
 X SLMR 2.1a X The jawbone of an ass is just as dangerous today...
From: sog@craycos.com (Steve Gombosi)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: group for judo?
Date: 22 Dec 92 19:34:56 GMT
Organization: Cray Computer Corporation

In article <1992Dec17.191654.17737@rchland.ibm.com> tmaas@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (Anthony Maas) writes:
>|> 	Your loss, I think.  I get an awful lot out of reading discussions
>|> about other arts, and adding my own perspective.  And vice-versa.
>|> 
>
>I also think it's his loss.  As to how this relates to MA, I know several instructors who won't teach their kids anything other than straight TKD, or straight Karate, but I for one am glad that I've had the chance to be exposed to a solid base of TKD, with some aikido, jujitsu, escrima, and boxing thrown in.  He (my instructor) wants to give us a wide base with which to learn from and choose the techniques that we find the most effective.  
>
>I know that there are those out there that feel if you can't master one art, why try to master four.  Personally I feel greatly enriched having had a broad base  - as long as you feel confidant with what you know, what does it matter?  
>
>Bring on any flames... my opinions are my own, definitely...

Nah, no flames - some of us *do* think it would be nice if you "mastered"
the use of the "return" key, though...;-)

Steve
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: nelsons
Date: 30 Dec 92 18:25:27 GMT
Organization: UniSQL, Inc., Austin, Texas, USA

In article <1992Dec29.175341.1@acad3.alaska.edu> fxmar@acad3.alaska.edu writes:
>Yes, I can get out of a correctly applied
>full nelson, but, the opponent might not live through it.

	Can you elaborate on this?  

From: Stovall@f88.n106.z1.fidonet.org (Stovall)
Sender: Jpunix@urchin.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: more on car jacking
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 00:23:02 -0500


(Deleted discussion about whether to stay or exit auto when confronted
with hammer wielding assailant on passenger side.)

WH> Actually, staying in the car is what you want to do.
WH>As long as you're inside you're not only relatively safe from
attack,
WH>but control one of the most powerful weapons ever invented.

Amen, check the yearly highway death stats.

WH>If someone tries to get in the driver's door all you have to do is
WH>open the door and hit him with it...

Bad idea. Just floor the gas pedal...the longer the attacker
hangs on, the worse it's going to be for him when he comes loose
(and he will).

WH> Once the car's pointed in a safe direction you can easily escape...

Even if you involve a third party (i.e., have a wreck) in your escape
attempt, it's most likely going to hurt the assailant hanging on the
side of your car worse than it does you. (Pragmatically speaking,
the third party picked a bad night to be out...)

Happy holidays,

Tom Stovall

___
 X SLMR 2.1a X My karate kid can whip your honor roll student...
From: plw@sgfb.ssd.ray.com (Paul L. White)
Subject: Wooden Arms
Organization: Raytheon Company
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 13:23:39 GMT

Hi,
  Last year someone posted the address for a guy that manufactured/sold
wooden weapons...Wooden Arms, somewhere in Texas?  Would someone please
post it again? Mr. Northcutt perhaps?

Paul White
plw@ray.com

==========================
Opinions expressed here are
not those of Raytheon Co.
==========================
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Sunday, 3 Jan 1993 03:07:16 CST
From: David James Alexander Hanley <U16244@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: nelsons
 <1992Dec21.171414.8008@walter.cray.com> <1992Dec23.035220.25160@cs.mun.ca>
 <4447@unisql.UUCP>

  Another point here is, how likely is a well-trained opponent to try
to apply the full-nelson?  While I still think that I could escape from
this hold as applied by most people, I concede that a strong or well-
trained person might nail me with it.  But, I also think that if a person has
my back, there are more effective things he could be doing.  Offhand, I
could spin to one side, and turn his attempted nelson into a shihonage.  Back
kick to the groin.
From: tk@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Tommy Kelly)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Sport Karate, Effectiveness, and all that stuff
Date: 30 Dec 92 14:41:58 GMT
Reply-To: tk@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Tommy Kelly)
Organization: Laboratory for the Foundations of Computer Science, Edinburgh U

I train in Shotokai (not Shotokan)  and have no Sport Karate experience.  
Also, our kumite is very formal, and looks deceptively soft and ineffective.
Anyway, it suits me, but thats just background.

I recently watched -for the first time - some competition fighting and I
must admit I was a bit disappointed.
Knock-down fights in particular looked messy and "boxing-like".  Even the
Shotokan folks, who are arguably closer to my own style, looked unconvincing.

Now I am not knocking competition at all.  And I am sure that the folks I
watched were formidable (Vic Charles was one). But still it wasn't what
I expected.

I get the feeling that there is something fundamentally different required
from the sport karate-ka compared with the non-competitor.

And I wonder how a champion sportsman would compare with a "champion"
non-sportsman.

So a question.
It seems that the champions are all young guys.  Yet they are typically
graded lower than the masters of their styles.

Q.  Do you think (if he would stoop to it) that a top-graded master
    would be able to defeat a young world champion in:
	a. Competition
	b. Real combat

tommy
From: neil@celia.UUCP (Neil Richmond)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Seagal Hits The Big Time
Date: 21 Dec 92 18:17:01 GMT
Reply-To: celia!neil@usc.edu (Neil Richmond)
Organization: Rhythm & Hues, Inc., Hollywood

Actually, I saw another story in one of those seamy tabloids that was entitled
" My Wonderful Night of Sex with Steven Seagal" or something like that.

neil

-- 

" Give a skeptic an inch and he'll measure it. "
Neil F. Richmond         INTERNET: celia!neil@usc.edu
Rhythm & Hues Inc.       UUCP: ...{ames,hplabs}!lll-tis!celia!neil)
From: scheid@danzan.EBay.Sun.COM (David Scheid)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Bruce Tegner
Date: 3 Jan 1993 01:22:00 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: scheid@danzan.EBay.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: danzan.ebay.sun.com

In article I8A@sju.edu, tmoody@sju.edu (T. Moody) writes:
>
>In defense of Bruce Tegner, I'd have to say that he has written one of
>the more practical and sensible books on self-defense.

This probably says more about the lack of quality MA books than
it does about Tegner's "works". I never saw anything in his
books which I considered redeeming. His Jujutsu style was 1900ish
or thereabouts. Always looking at Uke while throwing, etc. Many
of his forms as well as finishing posture was equally weak.

I didn't buy them because I never believed them to have any value
- historical or otherwise.

---
Dave Scheid - All Disclaimers Apply


Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: tac@cs.brown.edu (Ted A. Camus)
Subject: Re: bear hug variation
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 16:39:47 GMT


jchristian@desire.wright.edu writes:

>Bear hug from behind, trapping arms by the sides.  Attacker has lifted you 
>into the air; arms are trapped just below elbow level and you cannot use 
>the ground  [. . .]
>(3)  You have about three seconds (a generous estimate) 

  Very !!  You should blend with the attack immediately.  We'll assume
  you have been yanked up in the air, are currently horizontal, and are
  about to blend with the earth (not in a new-age fashion either).  
  It is unlikely you can fight this motion at this point.  Instead, 
  scissor your legs and bend & twist your body so that you can land
  with one foot on the ground.  So say that the attacker wants to throw
  you to his/her right.  Left leg shoots forward, right leg back, body
  twists right and bends, and hopefully your left leg hits the ground 
  instead of your head.  


>We've found that the best time to deal with the attack is the moment you feel
>it happening.  This is obvious, but the complications have already begun

   Fred Lovret Sensei (from memory) : 
   "Most schools teach you how to get out of a bad situation.  This is 
    entirely wrong.  Instead, they should be teaching you how not to get 
    in a bad situation in the first place."

   I.e., as you've noted, instead of training to escape from a hold,
   it is better to train to instinctively be able to deal with an attack
   the instant it begins to manifest itself --

     -- Ted --

==========================================================
  Ted Camus                          Box 1910 CS Dept 
  tac@cs.brown.edu                   Brown University
  tac@browncs.BITNET                 Providence, RI 02912
From: curt@access.digex.com (curt williams)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: New Year Practices?
Date: 1 Jan 1993 16:30:11 GMT
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: access.digex.com


I'm a firm believer in a good bottle of bubbly and sufficient laughs
to expel last years' troubles.

We do Korean New Year in mid January, which consists of a formal
dinner, game playing and fortune telling.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: plp1@Ra.MsState.Edu (pat parker)
Subject: Re: MOTHER PICKS UP CAR
Organization: Mississippi State University
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 16:01:18 GMT

laws@ai.sri.com (Kenneth I. Laws) writes:

>I have no knowledge of specific incidents, but can suggest
>a relevant variable.  People with Parkinson's Disease have
>overactive muscles that "lock up" or otherwise interfere
>with one another.  Movement can be so difficult as to approach
>life-long paralysis.  Yet it is said that these same people
>can exhibit extraordinary agility during emergencies.  I infer
>that they might also exhibit extraordinary strength, since
>the muscles are kept in good shape by their excessive activity.
>A old woman with Parkinson's might well be able to lift a
>car, or rip off its door, or walk along power lines to carry
>a baby out of a burning house.

i just caught the tail end of this stream, having been out of town for a
while.  i assume that it concerns cases of extreme strength in instances
of emergency.  Well i heard on the radio yesterday that a man recently
tore the security bars off of a window of a burning house to save a child.
no details, the dj just tossed this tidbit out as general interest, so 
there it is.

pat
From: Stovall@f88.n106.z1.fidonet.org (Stovall)
Sender: Jpunix@urchin.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Savate
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 22:54:04 -0500

PH>Apparently the practice of foot-fighting arose among the rougher
PH>elements of French society around 1800, for reasons that are
PH>unclear; around 1820, someone...systematized this practice...

It seems I read somewhere that it was a serious offense to strike
someone with your hand back then, so the baser elements developed
a form of foot fighting. Then again, the story might be apocryphal.

Happy holidays,

Tom

___
 X SLMR 2.1a X ...noli permetere illigetimi carborundum