From: eje@irenaeus.mlo.dec.com (Eric James Ewanco)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Papacy (was Re: The Lord's Table (Part 1 of 2))
Date: 19 Aug 92 04:06:14 GMT
Reply-To: ewanco@kalvin.enet.dec.com
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation

In article <Aug.18.02.19.13.1992.27210@aramis.rutgers.edu>, wagner@spinoza.math.uh.edu (David Wagner) writes:
From: wagner@spinoza.math.uh.edu (David Wagner)
Subject: Papacy (was Re: The Lord's Table (Part 1 of 2))
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 02:19:13 GMT+5:00

eje> Matthew 16:17: ...  And I tell you that you are Peter [Aramaic Kepha,
eje> meaning Rock], and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of
eje> Hades will not overcome it.  I will give you the keys of the kingdom of
eje> heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever
eje> you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."

> I think the Greek (and all we have is the Greek) is `Petros' (Peter) and
> `petra' (rock).  The church is built on the foundation of the confession of
> faith that Peter made, speaking for the disciples: "You are the Christ, the
> Son of the living God".  That is the rock to which Christ referred.

Jesus did not speak in Greek (not to the disciples, anyway). Matthew, many
scholars say, was written in Aramaic (or Hebrew), the language of Jesus.
Peter is elsewhere called Cephas, the Greek transliteration of Kepha.  This
means "rock" (in both Aramaic and Hebrew) That's it -- Rock, not little rock,
not a word like rock, Rock.  Petros means Rock, too - it is the masculine form
of petra, and Peter took Petros as his Greek name because petra is feminine,
and he would not have taken a feminine name.

I see no reason, grammatically, to believe that "rock" refers to the confession
except as a means to satisfy oneself that the papacy doesn't exist.  It is
merely a standard explanation used in anti-Catholic manuals designed to
confound any Catholic who actually knows Scripture and brings up Matthew 16:18,
but in reality the interpretation cannot stand, because grammatically it makes
no sense.

Perhaps you may be able to explain why Jesus renamed Peter -- to a name which
had previosly belonged to Him alone -- if indeed Peter was not what Jesus was
referring to as what the church would be built on.

> As for the keys, elsewhere in Scripture the keys are given to the apostles as
> a group, Matt 18:18, John 20:23.  The use of the keys is described in Matt
> 18:19,20

No, these verses describe the power of binding and loosing. They make no
mention of the keys; I treat them as separate powers.

> A pastor ... does not do so on his own authority.  He acts on behalf of the
> church, and by the command of the Lord.

So I also see it.

Eric>  And Jesus renamed him "Rock" -- a very unusual thing, since before that
Eric> time God alone was called Rock.

> This argument really ought to make you sqeamish.  It is a mark of
> the antichrist that he "opposes and exalts himself over everything
> that is called God or is worshipped, and even sets himself up
> in God's temple, proclaiming hiself to be God" (2 Thessalonians 2:4,
> see also Daniel 11:36).

Really, neither Peter nor any of his successors thought they were God, nor did
they ever set themselves up to be worshipped.  Since Jesus himself gave Peter
his name, I see no reason to believe that Peter erred in accepting it, no
matter how squeamish it may make one.

Actually 1 John 3:22 says that the Antichrist denies that Jesus is the Christ,
the exact opposite of what Peter did, and the opposite of gospel which each
Petrine successor proclaims.  Elsewhere it says that anyone who denies that
Jesus is coming in the flesh has the spirit of the Antichrist, again, a denial
flatly contradicted by the teaching of the Roman Catholic Church.  So you see,
the Roman Catholic Church fails two crucial, biblical tests for the Antichrist.

This goes for you, too, RexLex! 

> Regards,			"The Church's one foundation
				Is Jesus Christ, her Lord;
> David H. Wagner		She is His new creation
> a confessional Lutheran.	By water and the Word.

"... God's household, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets,
with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone." (Eph 2:20)

--
/=============================================================================\
| Eric Ewanco - Software Engineer     For the rash and outrageous opinions ex-|
| Digital Equipment Corp, Maynard MA  pressed herein I alone am responsible;  |
| ewanco@kalvin.enet.dec.com          they do not belong to DIGITAL(TM).      |
\==============================- 2 Th 2:15 -==================================/
    "...[T]he greatest and most ancient Church known to all, founded and
    organized at Rome by [] Peter and Paul, [is] that Church which has the
    tradition and faith which comes down to us after having been announced
    to men by the Apostles.  For with this Church, because of its superior
    origin, all Churches must agree ...  and it is in her that the
    faithful everywhere have maintained the Apostolic tradition."
       -- St. Irenaeus, Against Heresies, c. 180 A.D., 3,3,3.