HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: devkumar@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Devakumar Sreevijayan)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: INDIAN (ENGLISH) LITERATURE
Date: 22 Jan 1993 08:13:37 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX
NNTP-Posting-Host: dewey.cc.utexas.edu

In article <1993Jan21.182404.5881@ecrc.de> sanjiva@ecrc.de (Sanjiva Prasad) writes:
>
>	>(5.) RAJA RAO, Male, (1937-....) 
>
>This old master,  based at UT Austin, is definitely older than 56!
>Probably a good 20-30 years older than that.
>
                  The old master was born in 1907, I think. He is 
about 85 now and quite cogent, though frail. His first novel, 'Kanthapura',
was published in 1929, inspired by Gandhism. His latest novel is titled
'The Chessmaster and His Moves'.
                          He lives in a red sandstone house close by the campus.
The lawn is unkempt and the street very quiet and narrow. He answered the door
himself, stooped and wrapped up in a dressing gown. He waved us into some 
chairs and apologized for making us sit in almost total darkness. "The light
hurts my eyes", he said, smiling. Upstairs, I heard someone walking about,
the wooden floor amplifying the sound. "My wife Susan", he explained, "she
is not feeling too well". 
                 We didnt talk much about books. In fact, he did most of the
talking and he talked clearly and passionately, late into the evening. About
Gandhi, Nehru, De Gaulle, Churchill, Malraux, Diego Rivera, and a whole
galaxy of others. People whom he had met and known; legendary figures like
Subhash Bose, whom he had shown around Paris while at the Sorbonne. He
argued with feeling about the relevance of Gandhism, and with more than a 
hint of seriousness, about why Monarchy was necessary in India; about how
the Brahmins had betrayed the soul of India, and about how he had disavowed
his own Brahminical heritage: casting the sacred thread of the twice-born
into the Ganges at Benares. 
                  Later, as we sat in the darkness of his living room, the
shelves and the chairs overflowing with books, he talked about his spiritual
quest: about Ramana Maharishi, Krishnamurti, the Buddha, and about his guru:
Atmananda, a policeman turned Vedantin, in Travancore. His last novel had
borne a quote from Atmananda: "I am the light in the perception of the world".
                  We accepted his invitation to visit again, as he showed us
to the door, the next time we will talk about Mathematics, we said, and the
novel, and Nagarjuna, and the decline of the erotic in Indian culture.


Dev
From: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Jim Mann)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Censorship
Date: 27 Jan 93 15:00:46 GMT
Reply-To: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com
Organization: Stratus Computer Inc, Marlboro MA
NNTP-Posting-Host: gondolin.pubs.stratus.com

In article <1k4ap4$q1f@agate.berkeley.edu> spp@zabriskie.berkeley.edu  
(Steve Pope) writes:
> Legal Eagle Mike Godwin writes:
> 
> > Freedom of the press and freedom of speech have both improved
> > significantly in this country in the last three decades.
> 
> I'm wondering, Mike, how you figure this is the
> case.  I've witnessed the opposite.  There is the
> Reagan/Bush led crackdown on pornography: including
> seizing bookstores under RICO and seizure laws;

Take a look at what Mike said. He said there is more freedom than
there was 30 years ago. Certainly there is far less regulation of
this sort of stuff than there was in 1962.  In any case, most
of the so-called censorship of pornography these days centers
on things like kiddie porn;  even many of us who otherwise
deslike censorship support the supression of kiddie porn.

> mail-order porno sting operations; censorship
> of rock and rap music.  

I think there is a big difference between "censorship" and
telling a company to put some sort of label on the album. The
latter to me seems much more akin to consumer protection
laws.

In the political realm,
> immigration laws have been used to keep artists
> out of the country who come from such subversive countries
> as the Republic of Ireland.  Harassment and stings of political
> organizations such as Earth First are nothing new 
> but continue unabated.  Reporters continues to get
> tossed in jail for contempt.  

This is rather rare. Moreover, it usually isn't to censor what
they are saying but because they are claiming some sort of
immunity from revealing sources and the courts disagree. Again,
this is a tricky area. I support freedom of the press but I
don't think that reporters somehow have extra rights in terms of
shielding criminals. For example, if a reporter is in contact
with a mass murderer and has facts on file that could convict that
murderer, I don't think freedom of the press somehow shields
that reporter from having to turn over that evidence or to
testify.
--
Jim Mann            
Stratus Computer   jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com
From: S.Courtenage@cs.ucl.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Books we're too righteous to censor-- but would like to
Date: 27 Jan 93 16:21:48 GMT

David Stein writes:
>> 
>>   I would censor--I mean outlaw--any book that gets on the best-seller list.
>> 
>>   Hmm..., there may be some logistical difficulties involved.
>> 
>>  - David
>> 
>> --
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> Debil, on the shores of Bohemia.
>> ################################

Logistical difficulties!? How would a book make the best-seller list
if it was outlawed! The law would quickly become redundant!

I once read an article by someone complaining about this kind of
literature and saying that in general any book whose opening line gave
the name of the main character fell into this class, e.g.

	"It was a dark and stormy night when Clark d'Evilmaycare
	arrived at the glassy edifice of Crooks Bank, ..."

We could adopt this kind of criteria quite easily, alomg with others
outlawing books involving fast cars, swiss bank accounts, family
dynasties owning vast tracks of oil-rich farm land, factories etc.

Personally, I'm not in favour of censorship - just education.

Simon
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: marcy@sqwest.wimsey.bc.ca (Marcy Thompson)
Subject: Mints and books (was: Books we're too righteous to censor)
Organization: SoftQuad Inc., Surrey, British Columbia, CANADA
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 18:45:09 GMT

In a recent rec.arts.books article, abl@cybill.inesc.pt (Antonio Leal) wrote:
>
>I'll have a mint, thank you.  Can you make it the U.S. Mint, not
>the Franklin Mint, please ?

Shortly before Christmas, I ordered a Franklin Mint piece, something I
swore I'd never do. However, in TV Guide, they advertised a completely
tacky winged unicorn, and the local 12-year-old became blissful just looking
at it. After a serious struggle with myself, I decided to get it for her.

She loved it. (My biggest terror was that she would develop Good Taste after
I ordered and paid for it but before she opened her presents; thank 
goodness this did not occur...)

Alas, the Franklin Mint has now decided that I am a real sucker. I get
daily missives inviting me to purchase other Franklin Mint issues. Some
days, I get three or four missives.

Even worse, they somehow knew I had bought the thing for a pubescent
girl, because I have also received offers to join the following book
clubs:

    Sweet Valley High Book Club

    The Babysitters Club Book Club

    The Growing Up Easy Book Club

(I know these came via the Franklin Mint because of the way I track junk
mail by changing my middle initial when I order stuff like this, or
subscribe to magazines...)

Mostly I'm venting. Bad enough they sell this dreck in the Coles, B. Daltons
and WHSmiths of the world. Why must they litter my mailbox with it, too?

On the other hand, the 12-year-old has better taste in books than in
ornaments. 

Thank goodness.

Marcy

-- 

Marcy Thompson		
  SoftQuad (West)			
    marcy@sqwest.wimsey.bc.ca (preferred) or marcy@sq.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: harper@oracorp.com (Douglas Harper)
Subject: Re: Most-anthologized English-language poem
Organization: ORA Corporation, Ithaca, New York
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 13:46:45 GMT

In article <C1DCJo.C2E@ccu.umanitoba.ca> feld@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Michael Feld) writes:
>From the _Globe and Mail_'s review of William Harmon's _The Top 500
>Poems_ (Jan. 23, 1993):
>
>"400 poetry anthologies were fed into a computer and voila -- the 500
>most anthologized English poems rose to the top.  A revealing snapshot
>of one aspect of Wesern civ, even including a list of the poems in
>order of popularity. (... is Number 1.)"
>
>Can you guess?  I couldn't; but the winner is neither trivial nor
>inappropriate.

Was it Yeats's "The Second Coming"?

-- 
Douglas Harper | harper@oracorp.com | +1 (607) 277-2020
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: epb3r@Virginia.EDU ("Erik P. Brady")
Subject: T. C. Boyle !!!!!!!
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 19:57:24 GMT

I don't use this newsgroup much but....

	Does anybody else like this author (TC Boyle)?  I'm not
an avid reader or anything (probably don't read as much as most
of the other readers/writers do) but I think he's great and
would like to know if anybody has any info. on/about him.  (Fan
club?)  Or if anybody videotaped him on the Letterman show in
'89 or has a complete collection of all his short stories.

Please write to me directly.

			"jazz isn't dead, it just smells funny"
					Frank Zappa

Erik Brady
epb3r@virginia.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: jennifer@bcarh24f.bnr.ca (Jennifer Robinson)
Subject: The English Patient
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 14:27:53 GMT

Please send me any recommendations for or against "The English Patient"
by Michael Ondaatje, the first Canadian novel to win the Booker prize
(1992). I'm a longtime fan of mainstream CanLit, but haven't read
anything by Ondaatje. I'm trying to decide whether to buy the hardcover
now or wait for the paperback. I haven't yet seen the book in a store,
but have read newspaper and BOMC reviews and summaries.
======================================================================
Jennifer A. Robinson                        | phone:    (613) 765-2050
Bell-Northern Research, Ltd.                | fax:      (613) 763-3283
P.O. Box 3511, Station C                    | internet: jennifer@bnr.ca
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada K1Y 4H7             | "She's a prisoner of public
The opinions expressed are my own.          |  television"
======================================================================
From: S.Courtenage@cs.ucl.ac.uk (SA Courtenage)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: McCarthy's Prize?
Date: 28 Jan 93 22:17:20 GMT


I don't know what McGonagal's poems are like, but here's my effort. I hope
no-one takes offense at a Briton interjecting in an American affair.


Odes to Bill Clinton
--------------------

There once was a man called Bill
Who climbed up Capitol Hill
But when he got there
He found the cupboard was bare
And Congress was feeling quite ill.

So he decided to call in the doctor
And he also decided he oughta
Have a health plan,
Cut the budget if he can -
At least by three bits and a quarter.

How this tale ends I don't know
The future is always on hold
But this is for sure
Nothing endures
And what once is hot will be cold.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,alt.conspiracy
From: mss2e@Virginia.EDU ("The Nerve-Ending Fairy")
Subject: Re: 33, 19, 17 (Where are you going, Where have you been?)
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 15:47:41 GMT

Me again, in case you're from a foreign country and the number
69 is unfamiliar to you, it stands for mutual oral stimulation.



	Mick
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:26505 sci.math:18822
From: jweiss@paintbrush.cgd.ucar.edu (Jeffrey Weiss)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,sci.math
Subject: Re: Remedial Math
Date: 27 Jan 93 17:21:54 GMT
Organization: Climate and Global Dynamics Division/NCAR, Boulder, CO

In article <C1F8JJ.K6D@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin) writes:

>This is correct.  But in ALL mathematics courses, at ALL levels, there
>should be total rigor.  This means that definitions (or preferably
>characterizations) should not have to be corrected later, that theorems
>are correctly stated, even if not proved, and that concepts do not have
>to be discarded to get a more accurate version.  This can be done.

If one is trying to get the students to create mathematics, then they
will go through the same process of refinement that a researcher does.
I know I don't always get things right on the first try and I don't
expect the students to.

--
Jeff
jweiss@ncar.ucar.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,alt.president.clinton
From: lrabe@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Lee A Rabe)
Subject: Re: Forcing the Spring 
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 22:18:33 GMT


>Katherine M. Catmull writes:
>>Clinton talked about "forcing the spring" twice in his inauguration
>>speech. I thought it was a very pretty phrase, and evocative
>>of What Americans Do....


I particularly liked the phrase, as the Inauguration comes so close to
the festival of Imbolc -- the celebration of the promise of spring during
the coldest/worst part of winter.

Hope.
Hope for the Spring.
Hope for our country.
Hope for the future.

LAR
From: arc2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (AMY CHARLES)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Novels about writers
Date: 25 Jan 93 01:50:09 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

Anybody read any good books w/writer as protagonist lately?  I just finished
Anthony Burgess' *Earthly Powers*.  Not as symphonic as *Any Old Iron*, but
still pretty damn impressive.  Also recommend (no sneering, now) *Fools Die*,
by Mario Puzo.  Best casino book I've read, too, w/much better characters than
the Godfather pulp.

Amy Charles
Allentown PA
From: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: T. C. Boyle !!!!!!!
Date: 24 Jan 93 19:30:12 GMT
Reply-To: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology
In-reply-to: epb3r@Virginia.EDU ("Erik P. Brady")

In article <1993Jan22.195724.13725@Virginia.EDU>, epb3r@Virginia ("Erik P. Brady") writes:
>	Does anybody else like this author (TC Boyle)?

Oh yes.  Loads of fun when he's on a roll.  There are a few of his short
stories (especially "The Champ" and "Green Hell") I like to read aloud
frequently, with or without an audience.
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
From: herb@sybase.com (Herb Lison)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Substance over Style
Date: 25 Jan 93 22:53:43 GMT
Organization: Sybase, Inc.

In article <1993Jan18.180140.7424@nas.nasa.gov> wismith@amelia.nas.nasa.gov (William R. Smith) writes:
>
>It's been quite a few years since I read Maugham, except for rereading
>_The Razor's Edge_ after seeing the remake movie with Bill Murray.
>When I first read him, I was intrigued by his style.  I quickly became
>absorbed in the story, but couldn't figure out why.  Many writers
>have obvious mechanisms for building suspense, but I had trouble
>finding what Maugham wrote that propelled me along.
>

The Razor's Edge captivated me to an inordinate degree when I read it
some years ago.  It has often struck me that it should have been a cult
classic, like Siddharta or Steppenwolf, since it spoke to many of the
same concerns that those books did, but in a clearer more direct language.

Does anyone know if there was any attempt to identify the real person
upon whom Maugham based his character Larry in the book?  I have often
wondered if Joseph Campbell was the original.

Herb Lison
From: bh419@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ted B Samsel)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Theroux
Date: 26 Jan 1993 11:47:26 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


I enjoyed the "Oceania" book. One of the world's great cur-
mudgeons; however, he'd be a real pill to travel with.
-- 
Ted....
From: spb0457@rigel.tamu.edu (SubGenius)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Read 'em and weep: Depressing novels (was books be don't censor)
Date: 27 Jan 1993 13:21 CST
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: rigel.tamu.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

Paul Lewis writes...
>If you want depressing, how about _To Have and Have Not_ by Hemingway?  One of
>my favorite books, but it certainly doesn't leave you very inspired.  Quite
>fatalistic...

+-------------------------------------SubG------------------------------------+
This sounds like a thread to me.

Graham Green's _Brighton Rock_ and Kingsley Amis' _The Anti-Death League_ both
rank right up there in the take-a-warm-bath-and-slash-your-wrists league,
portraying the ancient bearded myth as (as Twain sez it) `a malign thug.'

I've also found Camus (and all the rest of those angst-ridden Frenchmen) to
routinely produce `downers.'

For your quick fix of bitterness a Ambrose Bierce or three'll usually do
the trick.

But I don't wanna have all the fun here.  Screw all the Dale Carnegie zealots
and the Coule freaks and let's hear about all those books that almost 
destroyed your will to live.







Yours etc.,



SubGenius (dec.)
From: mossman@dipso.Berkeley.EDU (Amy Mossman)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Read 'em and weep: Depressing novels (was books be don't censor)
Date: 27 Jan 1993 20:18:31 GMT
Organization: CEA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: dipso.cea.berkeley.edu

IN all the talk of most depressing novels, I'm suprised no one has
mentioned The Trial by that good time fella F. Kafka. Actually,
perhaps the most depressing story by him I ever read was In the
Penal Colony. I know, I know, some people on this group have said
that Kafka is light-hearted. Well, I love to read it but I would
hardly find funny or humourous. Bleak. But, in the right mood,
it is exactly what I want to read. 

Second nomiation: Notes from Underground by Dostoevsky. Not so
much depressing as physcotic.

Amy Mossman
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,soc.culture.turkish,talk.politics.mideast
From: perlman@qso.Colorado.EDU (Eric S. Perlman)
Subject: Re: hanif
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 20:13:44 GMT

In article <C1DC52.Mz9@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> emremsia@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Emre Erkut) writes:
>In article <1993Jan24.024915.10222@colorado.edu> perlman@qso.Colorado.EDU (Eric S. Perlman) writes:
>>something they still speak is just fine.  *HOWEVER* - the fact remains
>>that the message in question was posted on three different newsgroups,
>>two of which are very diverse (talk.politics.mideast and rec.arts.books)
>>with respect to the myriad cultures and languages represented thereon.
>>Turkish is a language which very few on those two newsgroups understand.
>>Therefore, I think that Ilan was right on in requesting either that a
>>translation be provided or that the most common language used on usenet,
>>English, be used instead so that the thread is understandable to the
>>maximum number of people. 
>
>Here is a difference to be noted: you may be supposed to write in English
>in talk.politics or rec.arts, but not in s.c.turkish.

True.  And from following the thread, it seems that it started in
s.c.turkish.  But when something is crossposted it's usually done
because it appeals to or is important for readers in the other group(s).
In that eventuality, translations should be provided, IMHO.
-- 
"How sad to see/A model of decorum and tranquillity/become like any other sport
A battleground for rival ideologies to slug it out with glee." -Tim Rice,"Chess"
     Eric S. Perlman 				 <perlman@qso.colorado.edu> 
  Center for Astrophysics and Space Astronomy, University of Colorado, Boulder
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: dlc@ddsdx2.jhuapl.edu (Dave Collard x7468)
Subject: Re: Ancient History Novels
Organization: Johns Hopkins University
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 14:06:26 GMT

In <1993Jan23.023122.21606@leland.Stanford.EDU> stefan@leland.Stanford.EDU (Stefan Michalowski) writes:


>There's the old standby "Quo Vadis". I think it won the
>author, Henryk Sienkiewicz, the Nobel Prize, although
>I'm not sure. This is a great novel, but not H.S.'s

The Nobel Prize was for the Trilogy of
  With Fire and Sword,
  The Deluge
  Fire in the Steppe

at least that's what it says in the front of my copy.
Mine are the translation from the Polish by Kunicziak (Sp).
Gads, what a *fantastic* series of books.  I got these for
Christmas and was practically living in 17th century Poland
for the time it took me to finish them -- staying up all night reading and
every spare minute.  Absolutely *nothing* that I have read has made
my pulse pound like The Deluge.  Wow.  Unfortunately, I
cannot read the Polish version, but this translation is said
to be very good.  The older translation by Curtin is not 
supposed to be as good, and was subjected to Russian 
Censorship so is probably distorted.  Has anybody else
read these books?  If not, then you should or you are 
really missing something. 

>when the persecution of the Christians begins, things 
>get nauseatingly violent. At his best ("The Knights of 
>the Cross", "Trilogy", 14th and 17th centuries 
>respectively) Sienkiewicz beats Dumas and all the 
>rest hollow. Best read in Polish, natch.

--Thor
collard@capsrv.jhuapl.edu
dlc@ddsdx2.jhuapl.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin)
Subject: Re:  _V._  by T. Pynchon
Originator: mnemonic@eff.org
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 17:42:58 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.144116.7727@VFL.Paramax.COM> rafem@gvlf8-k.gvl.unisys.com (Ralph Marrone) writes:

>                        o o
>                      
>              -----nnnnn U nnnnn-----
>
>
>I've thought that this was Killroy;  that is, until I read Paul
>Fussell's _Wartime_ (subtitled something like "Understanding the
>Behavior and Pyschology of World War Two").  In _Wartime_ Fussell talks
>about this same little guy, but he refers to him as Chad, not Killroy.
>He also goes on to say that Chad was a British construction.  Can someone
>clear this up for me?  Since Pynchon is usually quite accurate, I find it
>hard to believe that he was off the mark with Killroy/Chad.

Pynchon got it right. This doesn't necessarily mean that Fussell got
it wrong.


--Mike



-- 
Mike Godwin,    |"I'm waiting for the one-man revolution
mnemonic@eff.org| The only one that's coming."
(617) 864-0665  |                           
EFF, Cambridge  |                   --Robert Frost
From: spb0457@rigel.tamu.edu (SubGenius)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Martin Gardner
Date: 27 Jan 1993 00:43 CST
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: rigel.tamu.edu
Keywords: Gardner
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

I wrote...
>Dunno if a)  this is actually the same Martin Gardner or b) if he's written
>any other fiction.

+------------------------------------SubG------------------------------------+
No sooner had I typed the above and retired to my upstairs bedroom than I
was accosted by one of my own traitorous bookshelves and the existence of
Gardner's _Annotated Alice_, several books proving that, while the hand
is quicker than the eye, Gardner's wit outsprints either, and promises of
several children's books.

In short, the answer to both the above (although I actually didn't state it
as a question) is `yes.'







Really I knew
all this, really.
Yours etc.,



SubGenius
From: mtaranto@panix.com (Mark Taranto)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Buried Treasure -or- So, whaddaya use for bookmarks?
Date: 27 Jan 93 03:29:33 GMT
Organization: The Inner Clique


mad5c@birch.cs.Virginia.EDU (Michael DeLong) writes:

> 2)  two slips from Dillons the Bookstore, Broad Street Oxford.  These
>     came from an old girl-friends stay in Oxford, and provide a subtle
>     hint as to how much the books she bought me there cost her, if I 
>     would just sit down and find the exchange rate from 1988

It was about $1.86 to the pound.

Mark
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books