HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll)
Subject: Re: A Jew knows German ?
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 13:35:09 GMT

In <lexier.716520553@sfu.ca> lexier@fraser.sfu.ca (Lyle Lexier) writes:

[...]
>I didn't know that Jews were 
>actually murdered by "Germans".  To me I find it discriminatory against the
>German people when you blame them for Nazis who murdered people.  Then again,
>don't all people kill during war time!  The Germans are no different than are
>Americans, Russians, English, Israelis (who persecute Palestinians), Chinese,
>Japanese, and the list goes on.  I hate it when people keep blaming the Germans
>when Hitler never even planned to murder Jews in the first place.

[...]
>In actual fact
>there were only the odd Nazi murderer that existed in Europe, just like there
>are murderers today in America, Canada, and elsewhere.

Note that Lexier provided us with another gem: An anti-semitic,
anti-black joke:


Question: What do you get when you cross a Jew with a Negro?
 
[Answer deleted - a stupid joke anyway.]

Mr. Lexier has some problems...

--
                     |         | "Step up and shake the hand
David F. Skoll       | ||||||| |  Of someone you can't stand,
|_ _ _  __   __ _ __ |  \\V//  |  You can tolerate him if you try..."
 / |  | |_|   | |  | |  __|__  |  -- Tom Lehrer, "National Brotherhood Week"
_____|________________________________________________________________________
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Subject: Re: Ba'al Tashchis & Electricity on Shabbos?
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: 15 Sep 92 05:20:39 GMT

Here's something that may be relevant to the issue (standard disclaimers).

Orach Chaim 501:6 says that one may put unbroken wooden utensils in a
fire on Yom Tov.  Mishneh Brurah note 28 says that this is only when
one doesn't have enough firewood, as otherwise, to burn a useful item
would violate Baal taschit.

So it might be the case that to leave a the stove running all day on
Tuesday would be forbidden, but since there is no way to keep the
cholent hot without doing this, it's allowed on Erev Shabbat, since
one gets benifit from the stove being on.
-- 
/|/-\/-\       Amar Rav Nachman Bar Yitzchak:
 |__/__/_/     "P'amim sheadam ba b'sharav
 |warren@      v'rochetz afilu b'mai mishrah"
/ nysernet.org 			Jerusalem
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: victor@watson.ibm.com (Victor Miller)
Subject: Re: Theme bar/batmitzvahs
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 18:41:58 GMT
Reply-To: victor@watson.ibm.com
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
	<1992Sep14.173436.9364@umbc3.umbc.edu>
Organization: IBM, T.J. Watson Research Center

>>>>> On Mon, 14 Sep 1992 17:34:36 GMT, shimoff@umbc4.umbc.edu (Eliot Shimoff) said:



>In article <frank2.3@underdog.ee.wits.ac.za>
>frank2@underdog.ee.wits.ac.za (FRANK D N) writes:
>
>>An alarming trend has developed in the Jewish community in 
>>South Africa. Not only are inordinate amounts of money being spent on 
>>batmitzvah and barmitzvah receptions, but they now frequently have themes. 
>>Decorations, invitations, food and speeches revolve around themes such as 
>>Disney, space, chess, etc. There appears to be little awareness of the 
>>mitzvah itself.


Eliot> Curiously, the Orthodox community has developed its own special expression
Eliot> of ostentation.

Eliot> When I was a kid, reading the entire Torah portion was rare; I did maftir
Eliot> (enough to learn trop, but no more) and the haftarah (a useful skill often
Eliot> used later in life), and served as sh'liach tzibur (chazzan) for musaph.

Eliot> Today, kids spend a year or more preparing the entire Torah reading,
Eliot> even though most will never use the skill again.  IMHO, it's an
Eliot> ostentatious waste of everyone's time.

Eliot> A better idea would be for the kid (boy or girl) to complete a section
Eliot> of mishnayot, and make a siyum (completing the study of a section --
Eliot> creating a true se'udat mitzvah.  (And a darn sight more reasonable
Eliot> than a kid reading a rebbe-written dvar Torah: "The Yerushalmi on this
Eliot> says ...", as if the kid happened to come across a yerushalmi before
Eliot> breakfast!)

Agreed, that would probably illustrate that the Bar Mitzvah has
developed a deeper understanding of things Jewish.  But on the other
hand it wouldn't be as good a "performance".  This thread made me
think of what a friend told me.  When his son would come home from day
school (he was in kindergarten at the time), my friend would ask him
what he had learned that day.  His sone proudly told him that he had
learned that "Even the Cohen Gadol could be Tameh for a Bar Mitzvah.".


Eliot> -- 
Eliot> Eliot Shimoff                  |    n   n   n
Eliot>    shimoff@umbc3.umbc.edu      |   X + Y = Z .  Easy to prove no solutions
Eliot> Ashamnu, bagadnu, gazalnu ...  |   for n greater than 2.  Darn.  Can't fit
Eliot> Better luck next year!         |   it into this little .sig file.  Oh well.
--
			Victor S. Miller
			Vnet and Bitnet:  VICTOR at WATSON
			Internet: victor@watson.ibm.com
			IBM, TJ Watson Research Center
From: naturman@uctvax.uct.ac.za
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Violent antisemitism?
Date: 7 Sep 92 15:35:34 +0200
Keywords: antisemitism Poland
Organization: University of Cape Town

In article <1992Sep03.173910.694762@locus.com>, hayim@locus.com (Hayim Hendeles) writes:
> In article <1992Sep3.123907.25044@funet.fi> defee@tukkasotka.tut.fi (Irek Defee) writes:
>>In article <matthew.715515431@mugga> matthew@stats.mu.oz.au (Maciek Blasikiewicz) writes:
>>>hayim@locus.com (Hayim Hendeles) writes:
>>>>...
>>>>Poland was violently Anti-Semetic, 
>>>>Hayim Hendeles
>>>What sort of history classes would YOU recommend I go to. I'm really
>>>eager to learn the TRUTH. Thanks in advance for any pointers.
>>>MB
> Your description of Poland is absolutely fascinating. Unfortunately,
> this bears little resemblance to the Poland my Father came from.
> 
> My Father was born and raised in Poland, and left in November, 1939
> after the start of World War 2 --- as an adult. HE was there the
> entire time between WW 1 and WW 2. From his descriptions, and
> the many stories he has told me, Poland was violently anti-Semitic.
> 
> Thus, if I have a choice of believing my Father, or the History classes
> you attended, I will believe my Father. You may, of course, choose
> to believe whomever you want. 
> 
> Hayim Hendeles


The information I was given by my parents, uncles and aunts. All confirm that
Poland was violently antisemitic. Throughout his life my father suffered from
minimal brain dysfunction as a result of being hit on the head by a friendly
Christian because he was Jewish. He also had a horrible scar on his leg because
another friendly Christian set his dog on him as a child because he was 
a "dirty little Jew".
 
*****************************************************************************
* Baby Doc Naturman                                                         *
* USS Enterprise                           "Its life Jim,                   *
* Final Frontier                                  but not as we know it."   *
* naturman@uctvax.uct.ac.za                                                 *
*                                                       Spock of Vulcan     *
*****************************************************************************
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: goldberg@techunix.technion.ac.il (Jacques Goldberg)
Subject: Re: On Qadish
Organization: Technion, Israel Institute of Technology
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 19:25:57 GMT

warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein) writes:

>I agree that superstition is not a good thing.  But how do we
>distinguish it from the minhagim-of-our-holy-ancestors-who-if-they-
>are-like-angels-we-are-men-and-if-they-are-like-men-we-are-donkeys?

>Seriously, who is to say which minhagim are valid and which are based
>on superstition?

           You and I, if You and I just THINK.
In matter of Qadish, what I keep trying to say is that superstition sometimes
grows up from the Minhag out of ignorance.
Example: there  is a custom (I prefer not to write Minhag) to give an amount
of money to a traveller that he has to deliver for Zedaqah upon arrival. The
traveller is protected during his trip, because he is on duty, as a Mizwah
vehicle. Valid Zedaqah or cheap insurance? 

         Yaaqov Goldberg 

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.polish
From: matthew@.cs.mu.oz (Maciek Blasikiewicz)
Subject: Re: Violent antisemitism?
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 04:50:30 GMT

jis@panix.com (Jack Szwergold) writes:

>Pardon me.  If this discussion is about Poland being anti-semetic, I have
>to say yes.   My parents lived their during WWII and after WWII.  Before
>the war, the Polish government treat Jews lower than scum.  After the war
>(and even today) Poles don't like Jews.  My brother just came back from a
>trip to Poland and visited the old neighborhood he grew up in.   In a poll
>taken in a local paper asking what people thought of the jews, the
>breakdown was along the lines of %5 openly hated them %15 don't like them
>%30 wouldn't mind if they left the country etc... etc... I think you get
>the picture.
>The majority of Poles are NOT lovers of judaism.  I have a hard time
>dealing with it myself, since my background is Polish.

>Jack
>jis@panix.com

>PS: The Poles DID welcome Jews to Poland at one time, but when things
>turned bad, the jews became another scape goat.   The socialist partis in
>Poland before the war did more to accelerate anti-semetisim than even the
>Nazi's......  I have no love for them.

>PPS: I am not a scholar, nor a debator, so please excuse the lack of hard
>names and figures to substatiate my position.  It's my opinion that those
>who think the Poles are NOT anti-semetic are people who don't delve deeper
>than the surface.

>PPPS:  If Poland is/was such a great placefor Jews, please explain why the
>Jewish population fled th country in drove.....

As far as I know, between the two world wars the Jewish population in
Poland markedly increased.

MB
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.polish
From: pawel@tethys.ph.albany.edu
Subject: Re: Nazi camps
Reply-To: pawel@tethys.ph.albany.edu
Organization: SUNYA School of Public Health, Albany, NY
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 15:02:35 GMT

In article <1992Sep10.125927.21904@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>, saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal) writes:
[...]
>
>Second.  I _never_ said ALL Poles are/were antisemitic.  I refer to those
>that are/were antisemitic and to those who would like to hide this evil
>part of Polish history and sociology.
>-- 
>Sam Saal      kingfish!saal OR saal@kingfish.att.com
>	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton

  You could have begun the discussion with this sentence and save us
a lot of time.  I have no problem with what you just wrote and I agree
with you.

  Nevertheless please note that to refer to "Nazi camps" as Polish
puts some kind of collective guilt on Polish people which now
I understand was not your original intention.

                               Pawel Penczek.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: jgoldber@todah.chem.utoronto.ca (Joel Goldberg)
Subject: Re: Jews in space.
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 14:45:14 GMT

In article <5589@shum.huji.ac.il> aplebaum@shum.huji.ac.il (Hillel Applebaum) writes:
>In article <17205@ulysses.att.com>, smb@ulysses.att.com (Steven Bellovin) writes:
>Is it realy so ? will you have a SHABAT after 6 martian days ? 
>Will you DAVEN MAA'RIV on martian sunset ?
>I don't think so.
  Before Judith Resnick (A"H) went on her first flight, the Chief
  Rabbinate of Israel issued a ruling that there is no shabbat in space.

  Joel

  (All together now, "Otherwise, it would be shacharit mincha ma'ariv
  continuously.")
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: david@bourbon.ee.tulane.edu (David Kaufmann)
Subject: Re:  Not a Charm?
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-5706]: bourbon
Organization: E.E. Dept., Tulane University, New Orleans, LA
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 03:58:46 GMT


The letters on the outside of the mezuzzah, Shin, Dalet, Yud are one
of the names of G-d. They are also an acronym for Shomer Daltos
Yisrael, Guard the Doors of Israel.

There is indeed an element of protection in the mezuzzah, but as was
pointed out, this is not in the object, which would make it a charm,
but in the relationship it creates.

Then again, we should ask or define the nature of protection we're
talking about.


David Kaufmann
INTERNET:	david@bourbon.ee.tulane.edu
Xref: sparky soc.culture.jewish:15534 soc.culture.polish:2446
From: re0x+@andrew.cmu.edu (Radu Eugen Edelstein)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.polish
Subject: Re: Nazi camps
Date: 8 Sep 92 05:12:25 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.oef_Oti00WB60qTVx3
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Andrzej writes:
>Shoah was VERY criticized in Poland. I would not think about it in terms
>of an evidence. And even if, then I would be VERY careful.

I never knew it was criticized in Poland.  Giving it a second thought,
why should this surprise me ?

>Ok., I have a question. This is of pure curiosity.
>You are so fiercely criticizing the way that you believe Poles
>were behaving during the IIWW. Would you please write a few sentences
>about what has been going on during the last few decades in Israel ? I am
>particularily interested in Jews - Arabs mutual relations. Is this true
>for example, that you keep Palestinians in closed camps, and you destroy
>some of them (camps) from time to time ? For fun ? or maybe there are
>some other important reasons that I am not aware of ? You know, I am
>very far from these problems, perhaps I do not understand them correctly,
>and I would appreciate if you, by the way, say something on s.c.p on this
>issue too.

I'm not interested into getting here into a discussion about that subject.
If you want to learn more about it, do some research.  If you want to hear
Jewish and Arab opinions about it, subscribe to talk.politics.mideast.
The camps you are talking about are either in Lebanon or have been created
by Arabs in the areas occupied formerly by Jordan.  Israelis created no
camps.  More than that, many a Polish village looks worse than the camps

Palestinians are living in.  Palestinians living in Israel have a standard of

living not only higher than that of most Arabs around the world, but also
higher than that of many Poles.
Your posting says you want to compare the two relationships.  Well, they
are comparable from only one point of view:  both Poles and Arabs wanted
to take over Jewish homes.  In the case of Jewish-Arab relationships it is
even more a matter of Jewish survival, as Israeli civilians are routinely
murdered by Palestinian terrorist groups (like the PLO), who assert that
"all Jews have to be thrown into the [Mediteranean] sea".
It is not true that camps have been destroyed.  I have no idea what you
are talking about.

Rad
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.yugoslavia
From: sharon@unixland.natick.ma.us (Sharon Machlis Gartenberg)
Subject: JDC Relief Fund for Bosnia
Organization: Unixland Public Access Unix  (508) 655-3848
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 23:10:21 GMT

The American Jewish Joint Distribution Committee has established an
``Open Mailbox'' for donations for JDC humanitarian relief efforts to
help the people of Bosnia-Herzegovina. JDC has been helping
refugees flee the war zones and, in early August, sent five tons of
food and medical supplies to Sarajevo for non-sectarian distribution.

All contributions are used for relief projects; JDC absorbs administrative
costs. Donations can be sent to:

Open Mailbox for Bosnia-Herzegovina, American Jewish Joint Distribution
Committee, 711 Third Ave. - 10th floor, New York, NY  10017

Sharon

-- 
Sharon Machlis Gartenberg
Framingham, MA  USA
email: sharon@unixland.natick.ma.us   or   uunet!think.com!unixland!sharon
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.polish
From: matthew@stats.mu.oz.au (Maciek Blasikiewicz)
Subject: Re: Nazi camps
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 00:37:57 GMT

richf@comet.base.bellcore.com (Rich Farenci) writes:

>there are numerous accounts by jewish survivors documenting how they were
>saved by hiding with polish families, in nearly all of these cases the
>protection was bought with whatever money and valuables the jews could
                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
How much was this "whatever", on average? Enough to risk the lives of
the whole family, if the Germans found out about hidden Jews?

>provide.

If the jewish family were not to contribute to the rent and food costs,
I doubt that many polish families could afford to provide shelter. And
remember, food was scarce then, so if you needed more than the bare
minimum (like it happens when extra people are boarding with you, for
example) you had to buy it on the black market, and that's expensive.


MB
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: memco@cns.nyu.edu 
Subject: Re: good Jewish joke (No, just a racist one)
Reply-To: memco@cns.nyu.edu
Organization: New York University
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 19:15:15 GMT

	The subject line states my opinion on your "joke".

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: js@cs.tulane.edu (Jan Silbermann)
Subject: Re: I have yet to meet a Jewish murderer.
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-2745]: caesar
Keywords: Berkowitz
Organization: Computer Science Dept., Tulane Univ., New Orleans, LA
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 16:15:50 GMT

In article <1992Sep7.152249.202700@uctvax.uct.ac.za> naturman@uctvax.uct.ac.za writes:
>article <1992Sep2.230012.12432@spss.com>, leonid@spss.com (Leonid Feygin) writes:
>>>Or David Berkowitz, aka "Son of Sam".
>
>David Berkowitz was not Jewish, he was a Satanist. If you give up Judaism
>to worship Satan, you are no longer Jewish.

I heard that Berkowitz was born of Italian ancestry,
but was adopted by a Jewish family.

If he did not have an Orthodox conversion and upbringing
(unlikely), then he might not even have _ever_ been Jewish.
From: wwalker@bbn.com (Ward Walker)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Synagogue Financing
Date: 15 Sep 92 19:16:09 GMT
Organization: BBN Systems and Technology, Inc.

Continuing the discussion of why dues are much lower at traditional
than non-orthodox synagogues...

I received a private communication that suggested Orthodox Jews are
much more generous with donations than their non-Orthodox
counterparts, hence mandatory dues can be much lower.  Is there anyone out
there who has knowledge of a traditional shul's budget and what percentage
of it comes from donations?  At my Reform temple, about 5% of the budget
comes from donations, I believe.

And am I right in the first place?  Are traditional shul's dues really
significantly lower in general?

In article <FAIGIN.92Sep14093417@soldan.aero.org> faigin@aero.org (Daniel P. Faigin) writes:

>First of all, the Orthodox synagogues do not have to pay
>the UAHC membership fees, which (from what I understand) can be quite high.

The UAHC charges us $100 per member family.  Not insignificant, but
not enough to explain what's going on.

>They also tend to be physically smaller, with less ornate facilities. This
>results in smaller building funds, as well as less interest expense for the
>construction.

Our synagogue building was paid for a decade ago.  We have no expansion
plans.

>The congregations also have smaller memberships, resulting in
>lower support staff costs (fewer office personnel). 

My temple has a full-time secretary, a part-time (2 day a week)
secretary, a full-time Rabbi, a part-time Cantor, a part-time
Religious School Principal, all teachers are paid by the hour, and
a custodian.

>I'd also venture to guess
>that Rabbinic and Cantorial salaries are lower. 

Our Rabbi costs about 90K in total (salary plus benefits).  How does this
compare to a traditional shul?  (The actual salary is about 65K.)

>> In my immediate area, the non-orthodox synagogues' dues are about
>> $1000 for a family membership.  
>
>That's a bit high. I just came from a 300-400 member family Reform
>congregation with dues in that range. The new one we are (re)joining is
>smaller, and has dues in the 400-600$ range (more with kids), along with a
>dues special.

My figure of $1000 was based on three Reform synagogues in my area.  Dues
plus building fund at all three exceed $1000.  One has membership of
200, one (mine) of 330, and one of 700.

--Ward

P.S. I've read the discussion of synagogue costs on l-j.  I'm still baffled,
however, how a synagogue can survive charging $200 when my temple can
barely squeak by on $1000.

This is an extremely serious issue, in my opinion.  Although in theory
people who can't affort the dues are readily extended membership with
reduced charges, in reality many people don't want to ask for a
special arrangement and stay away.  I know; I'm a membership chairman.
I regularly have to urge and beg people in financial straights to call
the President for a dues break rather than just dropping out of the
temple.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Subject: eish (not Aish) (was Re: Mac David)
Organization: liver ---> spleen
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 16:27:12 GMT

In article <5571@shum.huji.ac.il> yair@cs.huji.ac.il writes:

>In article <9209081549.AA11012@ptms_dev.sbi.com>,
gertler@ptms_dev.sbi.com (User - Don Gertler) writes:

>|> Is this the same place that makes that terrific 'eish tanur?

>No, the only bakery in King George st. was closed several months ago.  You can
>buy even better esh-tanur in Habba bakery on mahne-yehuda market.

What is eish tanur?
-- 
Sam Saal      kingfish!saal OR saal@kingfish.att.com
	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton