HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: trifid@agora.uucp (Roadster Racewerks)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Wars of conquest & Bad feelings resulting
Date: 12 Apr 92 16:49:58 GMT
Article-I.D.: agora.1992Apr12.164958.11659
Organization: Open Communications Forum



Unfortunately, the SCA has a goodly share of the "get-a-lifers", those who are
so caught up in their games they don't "get" reality very well...

(Just the other day on the Herald's mailing list we had a fellow who reacted
*very* badly to our discussion of whether we ought or ought not continue to
protect names, a debate that's been here as well. He avowed that if he ever ran
into anyone in the SCA who had "his" name, He'd Quit!!! Several wrote back and
tried to remind him that we don't protect him against *unregistered* names 
anyway [he got quite huffy] and I wrote and said something like "Life isn't
fair, and the Middle Ages were less fair." And he wrote back that if this were
the Middle Ages he'd burn my hut with me in it! With an anti-smiley! Sadly, we
do attract a few people who I suspect have real lives that aren't all that
great, and some percentage of them over-react to the comparative niceness of
SCA life by becoming truly fanatic. Worse, they are usually among the less
well-informed...)

So, despite the fact that I personally *love* the idea of territorial wars, I
can see the dangers. It probably isn't for us, at that...

Moreach (where do you find a good 14thc fire extinguisher;-) NicMaolain
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman)
Subject: Re:  name loophole
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1992 19:26:52 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

Greetings from Arval!

Tadg had written:

>One major fly in the ointment is the Mundane Name Loophole, whereby
> somebody with an undocumentable mundane name can use parts of it in their
> SCA name. 

This rule is a point of the rules with which many senior heralds disagree,
but it is something that has been in the rules since they were written
down, and for a good reason: Different people have different views of what
the SCA should be, and what "persona" is in the SCA.  The College of Arms
has never and will never require complete authenticity of names, because
that is not what the populace wants us to do.

Nesta asked:

> Is there no overriding restriction or could we have: "Moonunit of the
> West" 

Yes, there is.  The rule reads "Elements of the submitter's legal name may
be used as the corresponding part of a Society name, if such elements are
not excessively obtrusive and do not violate other sections of these
rules."  Your example would be returned would be returned as excessively
obtrusive. 

===========================================================================
Arval Benicoeur                                       mittle@watson.ibm.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mdm@premise.prime.COM (Michael McAfee)
Subject: mixing SCA and real life
Organization: The Internet
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 03:57:53 GMT


	Unto the Rialto does Christian von Jauregg send greetings.

		Guten Tag.

		A discussion has started on using 'milady' and kissing
	hands in non-SCAdian scenarios.  Here now is my view (ooh, I 
	can tell you're waiting excitedly for it).

		In general I find women do not mind having hands kissed.
	Others seem to find it strange.  Usually, when a lady and I are
	introduced, I hold my hand out, and if the lady's grip seems
	tense I will simply shake hands.  If my hand is taken warmly,
	though, and the woman smiles at me brightly, I will venture
	to kiss her hand.  Often this is met with a shy giggle.  However,
	I've had more interesting times with ladies who then return the
	gesture.

		I do not talk forsoothly and/or flowery as often.  The
	times I have usually involve flattery or self-deprecation, and
	are done in mock-seriousness.  I don't think I've ever greeted
	anyone in such a way, except at events (and even then rarely).
	Perhaps my speech patterns are too ingrained in the modern world.
	Such is life.

		I do find I am wearing my cloak more and more often in the 
	real world, though (but then, the real world seems to be getting
	more and more into cloaks).

		Just some things to think about.

	Written by me on this the ninth day of the month of April
	Christian von Jauregg
	(mka Michael McAfee)
	from the Barony of Carolingia, in the Kingdom of the East
	all disclaimers apply
From: n9040513@henson.cc.wwu.edu (aldridge andrea)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Mudane Interactions
Date: 10 Apr 92 00:12:28 GMT
Article-I.D.: henson.1992Apr10.001228.5083
Organization: Western Washington University

In article <17823300000@ACS.VIRGINIA.EDU> U254@sysm.acs.virginia.EDU writes:

>I too have had the experience of using 'milady' in a mundane
>context.  Fortunately the worst reaction I ever got was 'You must             >be in the Society for Creative Anachronism!'

One of the better stories (IMHO - I was in it :^)) happened about eight years
ago.  I was in a Seattle Gilbert and Sullivan group, the Pecadillo Players,
and arranged with our director to have a local subsubdivision of the SCA, the
Cavalier Guard as they were known at that time (McFlandry's Household Troop
since then), to stand as door guards (or "lawn furniture" ass we nicknamed 
them) for the pre-performance seating of the audience. (Please pardon all the
parenthetical addenda.) 

I was talking to one of the guardsmen before a performance, while wearing my
own costume for a Sister/Cousin/Aunt in "H.M.S. Pinafore."  One of the general
public came up and admired both our garb, and then asked:

"Are you in the S.C.A.?"

*   *   *

It was the opportunity of a lifetime for me to smile brightly and say:

"Heck, no, we're in a play!"

-- 
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
<>  Andrea Aldridge   IRC:  Folkie   E-Mail: n9040513@henson.cc.wwu.edu   <>
<>  WWU--452 Edens Hall North/Bellingham, WA 98225 USA     206-734-0270   <>
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: habura@vccsouth08.its.rpi.edu (Andrea Marie Habura)
Subject: Re: Training fighters
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy NY
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 13:16:18 GMT

Men at Arms: in my household (an Eastern one) we have had men-at-arms, but
they're attached to the household and taught by the experienced fighters,
especially the male head, Sir Jehan le Batarde. The two we've had so far were
later squired. I think it's mostly a sizing-up period for both the house
and the prospective squire. (You understand, it's a very fighter-oriented
household; I'm one of the few noncombatants, and I'm thinking of borrowing 
some small armor and seeing how I do.)

Alison MacDermot
From: Marion.Kee@a.nl.cs.cmu.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Two-time Arts Pentathlon Winner
Date: 15 Apr 92 07:07:00 GMT
Organization: The Internet

At the Northern Lights event this past weekend in the Province of the
Mountatin Freehold (Vermont), there was an Arts and Sciences
Pentathlon.  The winner is a Rialtan, Ellisif Flakkinsvinne.  This is
particularly noteworthy because Ellisif also won the Ice Dragon Pentathlon
of the Arts and Sciences two years ago, which longtime Rialtans will
recall was the Pent that Mistress Niccola Sebastiani had publicly challenged
anyone to beat her in (and lost.)  This means that out of the last four A&S
Pentathlons held in the East Kingdom (that I know of, and I usually
hear about these things), Ellisif has won two of them.  Not a bad track
record for a Pelican! :-)

--Marian Greenleaf
From: karplus@cse.ucsc.edu (Kevin Karplus)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: question of contest judging ethics
Date: 7 Apr 92 20:19:33 GMT
Article-I.D.: darkstar.32287
Reply-To: karplus@ce.ucsc.edu (Kevin Karplus)

The question was asked:
	"Should a judge of any arts and science competition be permitted
	to enter their own work, and pass judgement upon it?"

There are two answers.

1) No, it is unfair to the judges to ask them to evaluate their own work
   impartially.  I know I always see flaws in my work that are apparently
   invisible to others.

2) Yes, as long as ALL the contestants are judges.  I believe that the most
   useful "arts competition" is one in which the participants sit down
   together, pass around their work, and share hints on improvement.
   This seems to happen only for brewing contests, but works well in any
   contest.  If prizes are to be awarded, then all entrants can vote
   (publically or secretly or by total point tallies) on who is to be
   awarded the prize.  The only restriction I woul put on such a
   competition is that the person sponsoring the competition (providing
   the prize) cannot also be the recipient of it.  
   
   Of course, an individual offering a prize can use whatever criteria
   he or she feels are appropriate.  But asking the contestants to evaluate
   each others work tends to be a good way to learn what the experts feel
   is important.


Knud Kaukinen				Kevin Karplus
inactive in the West			teaching at UC Santa Cruz
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mjc+@cs.cmu.edu (Monica Cellio)
Subject: Re: Event announcements
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 92 20:42:28 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

Arval says:
>>This policy requiries that all events be listed in Pikestaff; since no
>>other definition of "event" is provides, then the policy applies to every
>>organized activity in the SCA; this is obviously absurd.  [...]

And Tibor replies:
>I agree.  I was under the impression this was why Pikestaff added a section
>for recurring practices and workshops, to cover them with the insurance
>policy.  We may find this interpretation obscene, but it seems accurate.

That's why it was added, but not why it's still there.

Here's the history:  Before the last Corpora revision, events had to be 
published in the kingdom newsletter to get insurance coverage, and all 
meetings, practices, etc. were events.  Thus, Pikestaff had a "local events"
section with the bare minimum information in a teeny typeface, thus meeting
the letter of the law.

Then Corpora changed, and any event that was published *anywhere* in an 
SCA newsletter was covered.  Meetings, practices, etc. were still events,
but they didn't have to be published in Pikestaff any more to get the 
insurance coverage, according to Corpora.  I anounced with glee that I was
going to reclaim the "wasted" (in my opinion) page in Pikestaff.

And I was swamped with feedback saying that I shouldn't do that because
people considered it useful.  (Strange are the ways.)

So now I run it every few months, when there's room, but I don't run it 
every month like we used to.  There is no legal/insurance reason that I
*have* to run this any more; it's just there as a service to people who
like to travel to neighbors' meetings.  I agree with Arval that the 
seneschal's policy could be read to require this, though.

Ellisif
From: Stephen.Whitis@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Stephen Whitis)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
From: cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu ()
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: SCA Urban Legend Song
Date: 14 Apr 1992 23:58:36 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Apr14.205921.15941@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca> aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (a.j.s. nusbacher) writes:
>On the subject of songs, does anyone know the words to either of the two
>following songs:
>
>The parody of The Ash Grove that has all the welsh names (not any of the other
>	parodies of The Ash Grove.

This would be either "Welsh History 101B" (with two lines of patronymics)
or "Welsh History 101A" (with twelve lines of patronymics).  Both by 
Mistress Keridwen ferch Morgan Glasfryn.  I can find a copy of the
former and transmit it to you; so far as I know nobody but Keridwen
knows the latter.

(It's the one that says, "I'm Keridwen ferch Morgan ap Daffyd ap Hywel...,
etc., etc.; I'll feast you on mutton and harp for your pleasure, and
give you a place to sleep out of the cold--or maybe I'll meet you out
on the dark roadway and bore you to death with my heritage old.")

Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin                               Dorothy J. Heydt
Mists/Mists/West                                              Albany CA
Disclaimer: This is the Cozzarelli Lab's account, not mine--but I don't
think anybody else ever reads it.
From: ds4p+@andrew.cmu.edu (David Schroeder)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Great Lakes
Date: 9 Apr 92 04:50:34 GMT
Organization: Doctoral student, Industrial Administration, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Good gentles,

His Lapine Excellency Henry, Baron of Skraeling Althing, writes:

> His Grace notes Tree-Girt-Sea; the Middle has the region of Pentamer
> (mundanely just Michigan, now) and the Principality of Ealdormere 
> (Ontario). Since Ealdormere means Chief Lake, I'd assume it's a name 
> for the body of water.  What does Aethelmarc call it?

  Ours.

<Sounds like a good excuse for some friendly conflict if you ask me!>
<It's not as if there are any resident members there to object!     >


  -- Bertram --

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bertram of Bearington                                      Dave Schroeder
Debatable Lands/AEthelmearc/East               Carnegie Mellon University
INTERNET: ds4p@andrew.cmu.edu                         412/731-3230 (Home)
------------------------- PREME * Press On * PREME ----------------------
      "He indulged in every excess, yes in each licentious whim..."
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: What is a Persona?
From: jvincent@eagle.wesleyan.edu (The Ulair)
Date: 13 Apr 92 09:10:52 EDT
Organization: Wesleyan University

I do believe it useful at this point to ask everyone a fairly fundamental
question:

 
            What is a Persona?



     We have the philosophies flying fast and thick here, with more overlap
than most of the authors seem to realize. I suppose it is about time to DEFINE
TERMS.
       So, what is a persona? Is it a person, is it a generic 'everyman' from a
certain time and place, or something else altogether?

            -Eirik
From: dgreen@thor (David Greenebaum)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Welsh jokes
Date: 15 Apr 92 17:12:56 GMT
Article-I.D.: agate.sho6oINNpp4
Organization: /etc/organization
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.berkeley.edu

Greetings from Bjalfi!

Gwnlln frch Mdg Llnglln writes:
>Yaakov HaMizrachi and others have been debating what happened to Welsh
>vowels. It seems odd to me -- no one has any problems with the vowels in
>my name!  In fact, it's the consonants they have problems with...

Not at all, not at all!  It's the vowels _missing_ from _in_between_ the
consonants that are the problem.  Now, if we were to borrow some vowels from
Finland (Don't worry Knud, we'll give them back, 'cos I _know_ she won't
like them)...

We get
Gaaweniluulian feerichi Maadog Liiliaangoliilien.
Now _there's_ a name.

(For my own part, I've had to learn to answer to "Bj-j-j-something". :)

---------------------  Bjalfi Thordharson/College of St. Katherine/Province of
 |\  | |\  |\  |// |       the Mists/Principality of the Mists/West Kingdom
 | > | |\\ | \ |/  |   David Greenebaum/University of California/Berkeley, CA
 |<  | | \ |   |   |   dgreen@athena.berkeley.edu, dgreen@garnet.berkeley.edu
 | > | |   |   |   |
 |/  | |   |   |   |   "I make mistakes, but I am on the side of good -- by
---------------------  accident and happenchance." -- the Golux
From: brandon@husc10.harvard.edu (joshua 'yaz' brandon)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Transylvanian runic script?
Date: 17 Apr 92 18:08:59 GMT
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

In article <9040271@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM> Kevin (Dennis Clark) writes:
>
>  Tsk, tsk, The Russians have an alphabet and the English have an alphabet, 
>but it appears to my uneducated eyes that these two are not related.

But they *are* related --- they both come from the Greek alphabet.  The
early(?) Latin speakers borrowed it and added some letters and changed some
others, and then passed it on to English (among lots of others).  Then St.
Cyril (or whoever, I don't know the current opinion on the historicity of
Cyril) needed an alphabet for the Russian bible, so he took the greek
alphabet, plus a few Hebrew letters (_shin_ and _tsadi_, I think) and a
bunch of stuff he made up, and created the Cyrillic alphabet.... (That
sentence was much too long! :) )

Now the Greek alphabet, of course, developed from the Phonecian, which was
related to the early Hebrew....

Para servir a ustedes,

	Simon Santiago de Cordoba		Joshua Brandon
	Duncharloch, Carolingia, EK		brandon@husc.harvard.edu
YAZ/mycroft
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: bill@psych.toronto.edu (Bill Pusztai)
Subject: Transylvanian runic script?
Organization: Dept. of Psychology, University of Toronto
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 15:41:06 GMT


 
Good Gentles, may God bless and keep you! A question:
 
My grandmother lived in the area between Hungary and Romania,
known as Erdely or Transylvania. She told me of a kind of writing
called Rovas Iras, which to me looks like it might be related to
some of the north-European runic scripts. Apparently, in her time
(turn of the C.), it only survived in the remotest mountain
villages of Erdely. I haven't a clue where to begin researching
this - can anyone give me any pointers?
 
I thank you in advance,
                        Fra C.
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: christer@sue.komunity.se (Christer Romson)
Subject: proto-France
X-Unparsable-Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 16: 09 MET DST
Organization: The Internet
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 14:22:59 GMT

>This opens the following container of annelids: "What constitutes a
>nation?"  A person from what we now call Germany would, in period, not
>think of himself as German, but as a Frankfurter, Hamburger, Munster,
>etc.

>The only Western European countries whose inhabitants would think of
>themselves nationally (and this didn't happen until very late period)
>were probably the Spanish, the English and the Dutch.

At the end of the reign of Albrekt there seams to be smoe kind of national
fealings in Sweden. In the revolt part of the propaganda run like "saving
the Swedish languaged" (from the German influences of Albrekt). This might
not prove that people thought of themself as a nation, but i think it
prooves that they saw those speaking Swedish as a group, which is very
close to seing themself as a nation. 

Probably the icelanders could have thought ofthemself as a nation. I
wouldn't be surpised if the Norwegians and Danish did too.
----------------------------  
 |\  | |   /|   | |\  \ | /   
 | \ | |  * |  /| | >  \|/    SCA: Lindorm Eriksson, Nordmark, Drachenw., East
 |   | |\   | / | |/    |     Mundane: Christer Romson, Stockholm, Sweden.
 |   | | \  |  /| |\    |     Email: christer@Sue.KOMunity.Se
 |   | |    | / | | \   |   
 |   | |    |   | |  \  |   
----------------------------
From: lawbkwn@buacca.BITNET
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Symposia in print
Date: 7 Apr 92 21:26:49 GMT
Organization: The Internet

Greetings to all, and most especcially the
learned Dr Pergrinus, from this humble
and ignorant Yaakov.
Most learned and notable of scholars, I
have proved incapable of conatcting you.
If my words please you, and I find favor
in your eyes, please grant me this boon
and mail me a msg with you email address.
I should like to know if you are interested
in a paper I have been playing with for your
symposium called "The quest for Pi or 'How
Round is My Succah?'  It deal with the sages
attempt to determine certain circular areas
for religious reasons.  The Talmud dates from
200-800, and the glosses from 1000 to 1500.

I should also be very interested to know
how you chose to publish the Symposium.
Given the responses I received after my
legal posts, I have thought of trying to follow
your most excellent and learned example by
doing a symposium in print on Medieval legal
systems.
Good gentles of the Rialto, would you be
interested in such a thing, especially in contributing
to it?  I would write something on Common Law,
and perhaps a piece on Jewish Self-Government
in Christendom.  I should dearly love to have
articles on all of the various legal systems
in our period. (How does His Grace Cariadoc
feel about reprinting his article on Iceland?)

In service to the pursuit of knowledge,
Yaakov HaMizrachi
From: JRECHTSCHAFF@hamp.hampshire.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: william the bastard and other historical trivia
Date: 12 Apr 92 03:33:00 GMT
Organization: The Internet

Greetings to the Rialto,
Yaakov mentions the fact that William the Conqueror did not object to the 
term William the Bastard but did object to taunts about his grandfather's 
class.  William was taunted by the citizens of Dinan about his background,
after taking the city, the inhabitants were dealt with rather harshly for
the insult.  Class orgins were a touchy subject in the Middle Ages which is
why William got so mad.  During the reign of Charles the Good in Flanders,
a knight challenged another to a duel.  The defendant argued that he did not
have to fight because the accuser had servile ancestry.  When the case was
brought before Charles, he declared that the knight was of servile status,
and confiscated his property.  The end result was the murder of Charles by
the knight's household.  

On the question of the homage of English kings.  King Philip Augustus of
France told John that he could not have his inheritance of Angevin lands
unless he [John] acknowlege the land as fiefs of the King of France.
Edward III paid homage to King Philip twice, first in 1329 and in 1331.
The oath of fealty which Edward paid to Philip was one of the main causes
of the Hundred Years War - both accused each other of breaching their
oaths of fealty.

In Service,

Lyanna ferch Gwynhelek of Bergental

You know when you are in the SCA when you start writing medieval history
papers in the present tense. (OK it's getting late!)
From: Ruth.Woodring@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Ruth Woodring)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: William vs Arval on membership
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1992 19:56:14

Hmmn - you think feast costs of $10-15 are reasonable?   In Ansteorra, there are usually site fees, as we use an abundance of sites suitable for camping, these tend to range from $0-7 for a camping event used Friday -- Sunday afternoon.  A feast may run $3-6.  Not all events have feasts -- some have a food tavern on site, and folks bring their own in coolers or cook it over fires.  Not everyone will eat the feast, so cost for an event depends on the individual.  The site fee is paid by all, since almost an



y event you attend will have some costs (hall or site rent, publicity, any freebies such as site tokens, copying costs, costs for new list poles, etc....)  associated with it.

Here they think a feast that runs over $5-6 (not feast + site, just feast) is too expensive.  And I've eaten quite well at a $4 feast.

What's standard cost of feasts everywhere?

Also, here we don't allow the current Royalty to pay at the event.  What do other kingdoms do?

-- Vashti, Steppes, Ansteorra (Dallas)


 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
Organization: Doctoral student, Industrial Administration, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA