From: vu0208@bingvaxu.cc.binghamton.edu (!!)
Subject: Re: Can science come back to Islam [Part 2]
Keywords: Be cool & sane.
Organization: State University of New York at Binghamton
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 12:14:41 GMT


In article <12045@tamsun.tamu.edu> gagrawal@cs.tamu.edu (Gopal Agrawal) writes:
>But people seem to carry their devotion to their scriptures beyond the
>point of logic with such conviction that it becomes obnoxious. 
 --------------

Mr. Gopal, I don't want to indulge in tit-for-tat war here with you,
that you seem to be doing. Agian clearing your misunderstatndings
about Quran - that it is not *just* an scripture, it is code of life for
all of us for all the times. No wonder we can't afford to loose our
senses (even for a few moments) and  deviate from it. If that's being
"obnoxious" in your eyes - so let it be. 

I am sure you wouldn't disagree that our science is evolving and not
perfect yet - right? so one can say that our logic is not perfect
yet!!! in such a despairity of absolute TRUTH, if we believe in Quran
and take its word for granted in good faith and hope that some day our
science will discover the unknowns or poorly knowns (phenomenas) THEN
what's wrong about it, and what's obnoxious about it ??!!


> (The funny thing is no one seems to be able
>to indicate the missing links from the scriptures until modern research
>has conclusively proved it.) 

What is this missing link? please elaborate.


>Not to my knowledge at least. But the Vedas and the Upanishads do(explicitly).
>And so do a whole lot of other scriptures. But I really see no significance of 
>this statement about the explicit mention for seeking knowledge.
>I see nothing remarkable or revealing about that statement.


Yes there is! ie, Quran is book of knowledge and encourages its
followers to keep on searching for knowledge/truth what ever that you
may call - science!


>As far as my observation of human behavior goes, humans have always
>had a thirst for 
>knowledge, an internal drive to expand their knowledge and conquer all 
>that is possible, irrespective of whether or not their holy books demand
>that thirst. 

NOT true, replace `knowledge' by `food/material' in your above statement!


>|> >	    Would you consider these to be indicative of a highly advanced 
>|> >(technologically) society some thousands of years ago, or would you tend to 
>|> >consider them as fantasies of the person who composed Ramayana ? Isn't it 
>|> >possible that people loved to fantasize in those days too and forerunners of 
>|> >Issac Asimovs may have existed then. Please put aside for a second that you 
                                                 ---------------------
>|> >are defending the Quran and consider objectively as to which of the two 
>|> >alternatives would you consider to be more credible about the Ramayana. 
>|> 
>|> I restrain myself to answer you for the above question:
>|> ) because you ask for putting aside Quran - which i can't do! as i said
>|>     earlier that it is Code of life for us, and secondly that's
>|>     exactly what we are discussing Islam and science - aren't we?
>|> 
>|>  b) your statement implies that Quran is composed of fantasies!! (and
>|>     that offends me)
>|>    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>All I asked you to do was a simple thought experiment, to consider 
                                    ------------------
>yourself as some kind of an alien to this planet thus putting aside 
>all notions of religion/society behind you for a brief moment. You didn't
>strike me as the kind of guy who would be offended by just a thought 
>experiment. My apologies. I misjudged. 
>


No you did NOT ask for a "thought experiment", rather asked for
ignorig Quran for a second (see above), which we are not suppoed to
do, call me a fanatic, but that's how have to live. Not even for a
second you must loose your senses.

BTW, in you proposed experiment, you had already put words in my mouth
to declare them eitehr as "advanced" or "fantasizing" people! but no
other choice, and that's not good sign of intellectual discussion.


>But 'pointers' to unknown phenomena and claiming that
>these phenomena have been 'explained' are totally different things. I 
                            ---------
My friend no one is claiming that they have been explained.


>You really needn't convince me of that by posting verses on them. But if 
>you find verses that explicitly (and clearly) mention phenomenas (explained
>or unexplained) discovered in the *20th century*, I would love to see them. 

I will - so stay tuned.


>P.S. - Be cool. I may slip up a little in the phrasing of my sentences
>       here and there, but that's no reason to get so heated up about. 

How cool can i get without any man made support system?  (3K) :)

Q: Have you read Quran in any conetext - ever ??
Becaz this will help me knowing that how nuch you know about Quran.

>  LIFE'S COMPLEX - IT HAS 
>  REAL & IMAGINARY PARTS  
>

But all these parts are reachable, one has to just keep an open mind and
eye.

>E-mail - gagrawal@cs.tamu.edu       |   /   All Std. Disclaimers apply.


regards.