HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: American Rifleman = Consumer Reports?
Date: 21 Nov 92 23:35:04 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder

##About 1967, Consumer Reports reviewed varmint rifles -- and top-rated
##the Ruger Number 1.  I haven't noticed anything on firearms since then.

#Don't hold your breath.  CR has become a captive of the...

Most of the data in Consumer Reports information seems to come from
(or might as well come from) survey data. If you can sample a
significant number of gun-owners, and knew which questions to ask,
I'd think almost anyone could put together Consumer Reports-style
gun reviews. With this in mind, I'm going to do suggest something
stupid: Why don't we put together our own such reviews, and
put them into the FAQ file? This seems like a very suitable 
medium for the required surveys. All we really need is a discussion
of important questions (E.g. what do you want to know about a particular
model you are thinging about buying?), and someone to compile the results.
(Did I just volunteer for something? I hate it when I do that...)

As a start, and to limit the scope: What information would you want
to know, if you were thinking of buying an "assault weapon"? For
purposes of this discussion, I'll offer a better definiton that 
most proposed laws: A semi-auto rifle having any three of the
following five characteristics: Extrenal apperance very similar to that
of a military-issue assault rifle; large-capacity (over 15 rounds)
magazine; "military" caliber, .223 Rem, .308 Win, 9mm (are there any?),
7.62x39; barrel length under 20"; defined by existing, local laws as
an "assualt weapon".

                                           Frank Crary
                                           CU Boulder
From: alexank@research.CS.ORST.EDU (Kelly Alexander)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Answering the door at 11PM, without a gun. . .
Date: 21 Nov 92 02:16:14 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department, Oregon State University

In article <1992Nov19.222725.13396@chpc.org>, rboudrie@chpc.org (Rob Boudrie) writes:
|> # Assuming that a person does NOT possess a firearm, what it the best
|> # approach for dealing with a stranger at the door at 11PM?
|> 
|> car rolled out of the drieveway into the street".)  If I answered the
|> door gun-in-hand, the LEAST trouble I could expect is loss of the 
|> gun & license.  If I answered a late nite call unprotected, the worst
|> I could expect is violent death (p=very low, but not non-zero).

	I had and experience that suggests that you won't loose your gun
if you come to the door with it.
	About 2am I came home and as I was driving up the hill, a jeep
started following me with it's lights out.  I pulled into the driveway
and when he followed, I ran into the house and dialed 911 as I grabbed
the 1911A1 out of it's hiding place.
	While talking to the operator, I heard someone trying the door
out front and chambered a round.  The operator asked what that noise was
and I told her, so she told me that she would inform the officer that
I was armed.  When he came to the door (and called out that he was Medford
PD), I answered it with the gun in plain view.  He told me to stay inside 
and keep my gun handy. 	After he searched the grounds he said to keep 
everything locked up and call again if I saw anything else.
	The officer never made a fuss over the gun, nor did he seem to
mind an armed citizen.


---------------------------------------------------------------------
     Kelly Scott Alexander          alexank@research.cs.orst.edu
	    AI/Parallel Research Suns System Administrator
	      Oregon State University, Computer Science
---------------------------------------------------------------------
From: erudnick@pica.army.mil (FSAC-SID)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 7.62 Mauser vs 7.62 Tokarev & the CZ-52
Date: 24 Nov 92 00:03:07 GMT


Peter Cash writes:
##Hmmm... And how do they all relate to the small Lugar round?  Was it
##a 7.62 mm also?  That is, is the '.30 cal' Lugar in any way the same
##as the 7.62 mm Mauser?
#
#The .30 Luger (also known as the 7.65 Parabellum-Pistole and 7.65 Swiss) is
#dimensionally similar to 7.65 Mauser/Tokarev, but is a lower power


The 7.63 Mauser and 7.62 Tokarev are dimensionally similar to the point of
being interchangeable, and have 25mm long cases. The 7.65 Parabellum uses
a 22mm long cartridge case, and has the same overall length as 9mm Parabellum.


Ed Rudnicki     erudnick@pica.army.mil     All disclaimers apply
Protect the Second Amendment - boycott Ruger products
Geordi: "...it's like the laws of physics went right out the
window." Q: "And why shouldn't they? They're so inconvenient."
From: wwarf@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Wayne J. Warf)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: WANTED:replies on carrying weapons
Date: 17 Nov 92 13:16:16 GMT
Organization: Indiana University

In article <9211162347.AA24813@garfield> blaine@catt.ncsu.edu (Greyland Blaine Mull) writes:
#
#	I saw your post on rec.guns concerning carrying weapons.  I'm a
#21 year old (mature) college student who, after talking to my parents,
#am considering a handgun purchase before Bill and Hillary hit the Waffle
#House (oops....I meant White House).  I know that specifics vary from
#state to state, but could you email me the collection of replies that
#you recieved.  Do you own a handgun presently? - If so what kind? -I'm
#looking at Glocks (heard alot of good things about them).
#
#	thanx in advance for your reply..
#-grey
#
#-- 
# Grey Mull	       +Disclamer:  I didn't say it,-+  Macintosh
# blaine@catt.ncsu.edu  |   You didn't see me say it, |       to
# gbmull@eos.ncsu.edu   +---You can't prove anything!-+      NeXT...
#NC State CATT Program				Steve Jobs continues...

Unfortunately, North Carolina is one of those Southern states that
do not allow carry of any type (except unconcealed carry in an
automobile, 41 NCAG 207). 



-- 
 +--------------------------------------------------------------------+
 | Wayne J. Warf -- WWARF@ucs.indiana.edu -- I speak for myself only  |
 | Midterm Countdown-Bill and the Congress have to '94 to screw it up |
 +--------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: jheath@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Jim Heath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Bad tactical position ( was Psychology in Defense)
Date: 17 Nov 92 18:31:11 GMT
Organization: Center for Environmental and Regulatory Information Systems, Purdue University

#From article <1992Nov16.112309.1032@email.tuwien.ac.at>, by holger@vmars.tuwien.ac.at (Holger Reusch (Dipl. Gerhard + Joe)):
# IMHO, the best course of action is to leave  a  suspect  a  clear
# possibility  to  escape.  If I found somebody inside my flat, I'd
# yell "GET OUT  HERE  OR  I  SHOOT  YOU!  OUT  NOW!",  instead  of
# "FREEZE!" or something similar.
# 
# The natural human reaction in a state of panic is  to  run  away.
# That's what I am trying to provoke.
#

Or ATTACK!  Aren't you putting yourself in a situation where you
_expect_ the guy to move if you use some other command than
"Freeze!"?  If he runs away, as you hope, all is well.  If he
attacks you, you lose valuable reaction time. 
-- 
"Land of song, said the warrior bard,           Jim Heath
Though all the world betrays thee.
One sword, at least, thy rights shall guard, (The Minstrel Boy)
One faithful harp will praise thee."         (Thomas Moore)
From: KEVIN@MSUS1.MSUS.EDU (Kevin Whyte)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Bad tactical position ( was Psychology in Defense)
Date: 21 Nov 92 13:19:22 GMT


#From: nahst6+@pitt.edu (Nathan A Horstman)
#SCENARIO:  It is late at night.  You and your wife wake up from the sound of
#a broken window in the living room.  You grab your favorite perp-popper and
#head out towards the living room.  It is a dark, overcast night, and you can
#see the perp's outline but cannot discern if he is armed.  What do you do?  
#Shoot?  Yell something?  

If I was certain of what I had heard I wouldn't leave the bedroom.  Get behind
the bed or some other cover and while your wife is talking to 911 yell "The
police are on thier way.  I am armed.  Come through the bedroom door and I'll
shoot"  Wait for cops to come and stay on phone.

If you have kids that complicates matters.  Try and get them into the "safe"
room and then try it.  

It's better to let the perp come to you.

*all the usual disclaimers apply
============================================================================
Kevin Whyte						kevin@msus1.msus.edu
	**Representing and speaking for no one but myself.**
"Still, the best augers are those who divine from the portents of the past. 
They compile phenomenal records." Croaker "The Black Company" by Glen Cook
From: smpod@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov (Stefan)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: x-country skiing and target shooting
Date: 23 Nov 92 14:25:05 GMT
Organization: who knows

wixer!wixer.cactus.org!will@cs.utexas.edu (Bill Staniewicz) writes...
#I don't recall the name for this sport but
#I remember that it involves x-country skiing and
#target shooting with a rifle. It was part of the
#winter olympics.
# 
#What is the name of this sport?

biathalon (sp?)

#Outside of olympic competition are there any opportunities
#to compete?

There are local competitions.

#What type of rifle and ammo is used?

modified 22 rimfire match rifles, e.g. Anshutz and RWS.

Marlin makes a relatively cheap rifle.
From: vojak@icebucket.stortek.com (Bill Vojak)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Denver Gun Show
Date: 23 Nov 92 21:41:16 GMT
Organization: Storage Technology Corp.

I went to the Tanner gun show in Denver this weekend.  It had to be
the most crowded show I've seen!  It took me 10+ minutes just to
find a parking spot.  Everyone was talking about Clinton, Hillary
that is!

Anything that was military chambered, semi-auto was selling like
hotcakes.  SKSs' in really good condition were going for $110, with
the average one going for $89-99.  A fully dressed SKS, (bi-pod,
scope, and such) was going for $200.  It seemed like some people
who knew NOTHING about guns at all were there buying semi-auto
rifles/handguns.  People were asking questions like, "where do
you put the bullets", "can I get armor piercing bullets for this".
Who said that Clinton couldn't get the consumers to start buying :-(

Colt ARs were running bewteen $800-$1200 depending on model and
accessories.  Mini-14s were $495 and up depending on configuration.

My SIG 228, which I bought ~6 months ago for $550, was now going
for $650+.  (Though the weak dollar may be some of the reason).
I only saw one HK squeeze cocker pistol, and it was used.

The brand new Browing HP 9mm were going for $375-$400, but used
ones were going for $450-$500. (Are the older ones better?)

I ending up buying a hi-tec, rifle that can be broken down for easier
storage.  I was a bit worried what my wife would say when she saw it,
(collapsable stock, barrel shroud, 20 rnd mag, fits in a 20"x8", 
carry case), but her only question was, "If Clinton bans them, will
it increase in value?" :-)

Anyway, I went Saturday morning, and given the rate of sales, I'm willing
to bet that by Sunday night, there probably wasn't a SKS left in the house.

I did see a Sharps' rifle for sale, ($4000!).  I guess I'll end up this
year by having bought 3 new guns.  I still need to pick up some more mags
for my SIG, and for the rifle.  For next year the Browing High Power
is still on my list, along with a good .357, and maybe a 12ga.  Damn,
if I could only write a program to predict those Lotto numbers!

                                Bill Vojak
                                Bill_Vojak@stortek.com
				NRA, ILA,
                                Colorado Firearms Collation

------------------------------------------
Anti-Gun President, Anti-Gun Congress,
Better buy what you want BEFORE Dec 31.
----------------------------------------
From: boardman%cancer.unm.edu@lynx.unm.edu (Bob Boardman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Weapon for defense from cows
Date: 23 Nov 92 21:40:55 GMT
Organization: UNM Cancer Center

In article <9211220321.aa29362@dec4ie.ieunet.ie>,
          jkh@whisker.lotus.ie (Jordan K. Hubbard) writes:
#
##  My question is, what is a good weapon to carry in case we run into
##  the nastier one's far from our vehicle? So far the recommendations are:
#
#Umm, I you won't like this, but I think you're over-reacting just a
#tad..
#
#  I also
#presume these are your cattle you're talking about - Animal control
#codes are very nice and all that but I can tell you for a fact that
#you're going to generate an EXTREME amount of bad feeling between
#yourself and your neighbors if you blast one of their bovines!  I can
#just sort of picture the extreme scorn (to say nothing of anger) on
#the rancher's face as you tell him you felt really threatened by his
#bull and felt compelled to put 15 rounds into it!  He'll probably also
#comment on your city origins at that point and strongly suggest you
#return there..
#
	I have to second this advice.  While an old range bull can be
  pretty intimidating by its sheer size and obnoxious attitude, I've
  never run into one that wouldn't back down when directly confronted
  by a person, no matter how small the person.
	Most western states still operate on the "open range" concept,
  which basically means that if you don't want somebody else's cattle
  on your land, it's up to you to fence them out, not up to the owner
  to fence them in.  You should be able to figure out whose cows are
  on your land from the brand.  Talk to the owner and see if you can
  work something out....  Shooting cows that belong to one of your
  new neighbors will likely result in escalating unpleasantness, leading
  to your not being able to enjoy your new ranch.

  -Bob

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
|**I _AM_ a member of a well-regulated militia - self-regulated, that is!!!!**|
| Bob Boardman,Albuquerque,New Mexico - NRA LIFE, NMSSA, Zia Rifle&Pistol Club|
|        internet:boardman@cancer.unm.edu    bitnet:BOARDMAN@UNMB             |
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
From: minh@inst-sun1.jpl.nasa.gov (Minh Lang)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: T/C pistol iron sight question...
Date: 16 Nov 92 01:09:05 GMT
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA, USA

Hi, I have a question that I would appreciate
any help. I have a T/C 10" 44 magnum with
a factory iron sight. Using an electronic
caliper, I measured the rear sight's height
at different clicks and this is what I got:
- with the rear sight all the way down, it's
   2.020 inches.
- with 5 clicks up, 2.045"
- with 10 clicks up, 2.063"
- with 15 clicks up, 2.084"
- with 20 clicks up, 2.108"
- with 25 clicks up, 2.128"
The click adjustments are not consistent. I am wondering
is this a common problem wihth the factory iron sight?
If it is, is there any iron sight that gives consistent
clicks and it can fit the T/C without drilling and tapping?
(Such as Williams ro Lyman?)
Also, is there an accurate way of calculating the relation
between MOA and sight click? (In other words, giving
the sight radius, sight height (and adjustment per click),
muzzle velocity, can we accurately calculate the
MOA/click? I tried to calculate it using trigonometry
but it seems the result is too far from being accurate
after I tested in the range).
I would appreciate any help/comments. Please either post
your replies or email to me at minh@inst-sun1.jpl.nasa.gov
and I'll post a summary.
Thank you very much.

  == Minh ==
  minh@inst-sun1.jpl.nasa.gov
From: smittie@csulb.edu (Smittie)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Bad tactical position ( was Psychology in Defense)
Date: 19 Nov 92 15:13:12 GMT
Organization: Cal State Long Beach

#Moral:  Watch your back.

I thought "check six" was a standing order for anyone living in any city with a
population of more than 6000? "Check Six" is a CONSTANT habit with me. But
then, I live in Los Angeles.

smittie
--
                             Tada mono de ha nai
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
GEnie, MCI, AOL:Smittie   All of these accounts except MCI will die on or
smittie@beach.csulb.edu   about Dec 31. UNIX will be forwarded for 2 weeks.
From: lvc@cbvox1.att.com (Lawrence V Cipriani)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Glocks and Lead Bullets?
Date: 19 Nov 92 15:06:46 GMT
Organization: Ideology Busters, Inc.

In article <9211171648.AA02916@sweetpea.jsc.nasa.gov> weed@sweetpea.jsc.nasa.gov (daniel weed 283-4162) writes:
#
#In the on-going debate between Glocks and the rest of the world, I've
#read a few posts indicating that one should NOT shoot LEAD bullets
#in their Glock.  What are the facts in this?

The one and only reason I no longer shoot lead bullets in my Glock 17
is I get absolutely terrible groups with them !  I do get good groups
with jacketed and copper plated (not the copper wash) but lead are just
atrocious.

#Does it apply to the .45 ACP also?

I believe the problem above is due to the polygonal barrel in 9mm Glocks.

The big-bore Glocks do not have a polygonal barrel and should work fine
with lead.  A friend shot 200 grain SWC with 4 grains of Bullseye and
got 5" (10 shot) groups at 10 yds the first time he shot his G21.

If someone knows of a lead bullet which will give good groups in the
9mm Glock please post your load info and more importantly what bullet
exactly are you shooting.

Thanks,
-- 
Larry Cipriani, att!cbvox1!lvc or lvc@cbvox1.att.com
From: jamaass@bluemoon.use.com (Jeffrey A. Maass)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: LONG, rec.guns discussion
Date: 16 Nov 92 01:09:27 GMT
Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024])

amirza@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Anmar Caves) writes:

# 
# 
# Back to technical stuff.  I've reloaded over 550 rounds of ammo on a
# single stage press over the last two days, what a job!
# 
# 
# 

Gee, I just came up from 1.5 hours loading ammunition on my Dillon
RL-550B (500 rounds): what a job!

8-)


Jeff Maass                   Amateur Radio: K8ND (@ W8CQK)
Powell OH (NW of Columbus)         Netmail: jamaass@bluemoon.uucp
From: forda@gtephx.UUCP (Andrew Ford @ AGCS, Phoenix, Arizona)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: carrying guns for self-defense
Date: 19 Nov 92 15:06:56 GMT
Organization: gte

# U28037%uicvm.uic.edu@OHSTVMA.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU (Jason Kratz) asks:
# #Do you people all have licenses to legally carry
# #guns or do you do it illegally?

No, I don't have a license to carry.
No, I don't do it illegally.

Yes I do carry, both on my person (unconcealed) and in my vehicle
concealed in a storage compartment.

No license is needed in Arizona to carry as described.

No wonder we don't have enough car-jackings to worry about it!



-- 
"25 States allow anyone to buy a gun, strap it on, and walk down the street with
no permit of any kind: some say it's crazy.  However, 4 out of 5 US murders are 
committed in the other half of the country: so who is crazy?"   -  Andrew Ford
gtephx!forda@enuucp.eas.asu.edu  OR  !uunet!samsung!romed!enuucp!gtephx!forda
From: post@hpfcso.fc.hp.com (David Post)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: AMT .380, Colt Mustang, or other?
Date: 17 Nov 92 13:16:04 GMT

At the risk of dampening the Glock flame wars, I note that Steven Wallace
asked:
 >I'm considering a Colt Mustang (both the airweight and regular version)
 >or AMT's .380 backup as a canceled carry.  Any opinions?  Which is most
 >reliable?  Are there other .380s to consider?

I was suprised that nobody has mentioned the Bersa model 85 or 86.  About 30
ounces, 3.5 in. barrel, 12+1 capacity.

Or an Astra Constable A-60 with similar specs.

Magazines will cost $25 or so.

Larger than the Mustang, but about the same size as a PPK or P230.

David Post  davep@hpfcpp.fc.hp.com  hplabs!hpfcla!post
From: bellas@soldev.tti.com (Pete Bellas)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: fun things to shoot at
Date: 19 Nov 92 15:07:02 GMT
Organization: Transaction Technology, Inc.

We used to shoot at a variety of things, back when you could do that kind
of thing around LA County. One of the funny incidents was when we took a
empty freon tank (about the size of a BBQ propane tank). We set it up on
the hill like all the other targets but everyone was most disappointed,
regardless of what we shot it with the bullets just passed through. I
borrowed my wifes autoloader 12 ga and loaded it with 3 slugs. Then with
my best bravado I stated "y'all don't know how it's done", and proceeded
to fire 3 shots from the hip. The first spun the tank like a top, the second
made it jump about 8 feet into the air and with the third it disappeared
over the back of the hill! I didn't say a word (didn't have to :-).

			-Pete-


* Pete Bellas                   "Cogito ergo spud"                         *
* Citicorp/TTI                       I think therefore I yam.              *
* Santa Monica, CA                                                         *
* bellas@gamma.tti.com                                                     *
From: btm@well.sf.ca.us (Brian Millin)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Glock accurization?
Date: 20 Nov 92 22:32:25 GMT
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link

In article <1992Nov19.163308.14809@CERIS.Purdue.EDU> jheath@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Jim Heath) writes:
#Has the Glock been around long enough for anyone to "accurize"
#them?  Does Barstow (sp?) make barrels for them?  Are there other
#accesories available?  

BarSto does make barrels in various lengths. I do not know if they can be
"Accurized" or if there is any need to. They are very accurate as is. 
I believe Nowlin also makes barrels, including 10MM. Barsto only makes barrels
for the 9mm and .40

#
#Has anyone used one of the 17L (I think that's the designation,
#the 9mm "target" version)?
#-- 
The 17L is listed by Glock as the Competition model, not Target. The difference
is subject to interpretion. I love mine, your mileage may vary. It is NOT
appreciably more accurate than my 17, but it IS easier to shoot when you
are in a hurry. Such as in competition. 

Sorry, Holger.
From: Sproul@sproul.sproul.com (Mark Sproul)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: M-16,AR-15 Life
Date: 16 Nov 92 16:46:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: sproul.D2150096.iq07r5
Organization: Sproul Consulting



In article <92318.141800TXK107@psuvm.psu.edu> (rec.guns), TXK107@PSUVM.PSU.EDU writes:
# I was wondering about the duribility of the lower reciver. Do they last forever
# or do the have a finite service life. If wear is a problem at what location doe
# s this show? I imagine the millitary has guidelines, and connections to an armo
# urer could be benificial to the debate.
# 
#                                               Terry Kuzma
#                                               NRA Life Member
# 

In use at the military they have a finite life.  Several years ago,
I knew someone that worked at the armory of a local boot camp.  He
saw all kinds of broken things.  The most common problem was around
the rear sight of the upper receiver.  This tended to crack or the
corners break off. 

I read an article many years ago (I think it was in SOF) about surplus
M16s being used in Nicarugua and the salty climate did wonders to
the aliminum.  The area around the magazine well were they normally
held on to it actually developed large holes.  This did not ruin the
rifles for their purposes but I wouldn't want one.

For civilian use, I would say the AR-15 receivers will last longer
than most of us.

-----------------------------------------------------
Mark Sproul - KB2ICI - New Jersey
sproul@sproul.com