HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jpk@Ingres.COM (Jon Krueger)
Subject: Re: Partial Legalization
Reply-To: jpk@Ingres.COM (Jon Krueger)
Organization: Ask Computer Systems Inc., Ingres Division, Alameda CA 94501
Date: 21 Aug 92 06:48:03 GMT

Bear Giles writes:
> I've seen what appears to be strong conditioning in humans from
> software.  (If [users] press the right buttons they are rewarded
> with a performed task; if they press the wrong buttons the system
> beeps at them, prints nasty messages and/or loses their data.

Just like contingencies found in everyday life.  You point the car at
the right things, you go places; you point it at the wrong things, you
break the car, get hurt, get tickets.

> After a while, it becomes nearly impossible to change the
> user-interface because the users become so conditioned that they
> refuse to try anything else).

Conditioned to what?  The term as you use it could indicate simply
that users become so successful and efficient that they decline to use
inferior tools.  And yet I doubt that's what you mean here.

This might help: "conditioned" was a bad translation.  In the Russian,
Pavlov referred to behavior conditional on a stimulus, behavior which
happened on the condition that the stimulus was presented.  In
English, "conditioned" got inaccurately used to describe respondent
behavior, and was even less accurate when later used to describe
operant behavior, which is how you're using it.

Possibly what you do mean is stereotypy.

> a study involving pedophiles is probably using incarcerated,
> or at least paroled, subjects.  They have a _very_ strong
> incentive to convince the researcher, and indirectly the
> parole board, that they have reformed and are no longer a
> threat to society

A perfectly valid point, but a question about adequate controls, not
treatment.  Regardless of treatment being measured, a control group is
needed to distinguish effects of treatment from effects of other
factors such as incentive to improve.

> and the researcher may even provide
> feedback in this frame of reference.

A perfectly valid point again, but a question about artifacts, not
treatment.  Most treatments and most measurement situations admit of
various measurement artifacts such as the one you suggest.
Experimental design is (among other things) the art of avoiding
artifacts.  E.g. in this case double blind is probably impossible to
achieve, but single blind would avoid the artifact you suggest.

Jon
--
Jon Krueger  jpk@ingres.com
From: elg@elgamy.sccsi.com (Eric Lee Green)
Date: 19 Aug 92 17:32:04 CDT
Newsgroups: sci.psychology
Subject: Re: Partial Legalization
Distribution: world
Organization: Eric's Amiga 2000 @ Home

From article <1992Aug16.032859.373@pony.Ingres.COM>, by jpk@Ingres.COM (Jon Krueger):
> Curtis Yarvin writes:
>>> you [Eric Green] believe that behaviorist techniques make you more
>> effective teacher...how do you measure effectiveness?
>
> The field almost defines itself by measurement of effectiveness.
> You'll find measurements in the lab, the field, and the literature.
> Which ones don't you understand?

I'll add an additional note here: if he is truly interested in how to
measure effectiveness, I suggest that he go to _Mental Measurements
Yearbook_ and look up some decent behavioral scales.

Regarding behaviorist techniques in the classroom: even today, most
teachers don't know how to apply them (I'm sure the 1970's were even worse
then, because it was "new" back then). The best application is, of course,
behavior management -- getting the kids to do what they need to be doing,
preventing outbreaks of disobedience & disruption. That's the whole deal
with the field. There's also a few other minor applications, dealing with
memory and such, but so it goes. In any event, your note that modern
psychology derived from animal research has made "no" contributions is
totally false. The contributions are modest, true -- but hardly
non-existent. Most of what I do in the classroom doesn't involve anything
from the field of psychology, but the behavior management techniques are
much appreciated.

--
 Eric Lee Green  elg@elgamy.sccsi.com         Dodson Elementary
 (713) 437-6908  uunet!nuchat!elgamy!elg      Houston, TX
                "Kids are kids, no matter what"
Newsgroups: sci.psychology
From: pbaxter@yankton.ucs.indiana.edu
Subject: Re: LSD and MMDA
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 01:45:19 GMT

In article <1992Aug1.221545.2346@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>  
bj368@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike E. Romano) writes:
> 
> I read recently that LSD and MMDA or XTACY (which I believe is simply
> a combination of synthetic mescaline and amphetamine) are being 
> considered to be partially allowed again in psychiatric research.
> I wish someone would do a comprehensive survey, perhaps by running
> an ad inviting all those who have tripped from the 60s to submit
> anonymous very detailed questionnaire which would be part of the ad,
> to compile some real data over time on this subject.
> The mass experiment already took place in the 60s at least with LSD,
> but I have yet to see a major attempt to pull together a large
> number of experiences, quantify, analyze, and of course pose the
> major question: did it improve one's life?
> -- 
>             Mike Romano     Univ. Calif. Berkeley


 I feel the need to clear up something. MMDA is not the same thing as 
ecstacy. Ectasy is MDMA or 3,4-methylenedioxy-methamphetamine. MMDA is 
3,4-methylenedioxy-5-methoxy-amphetamine.
From: jbtaylor@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: sci.psychology
Subject: Re: MENNINGER INSTITUTE
Date: 20 Aug 92 13:24:54 CDT
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

In article <u251014.9@hnykun11.urc.kun.nl>, u251014@hnykun11.urc.kun.nl (Hans Schilderman) writes:
> 
> READING PRUYSERS PSYCHOLOGY OF RELIGION I BECAME INTERESTED IN THE MENNINGER 
> INSTITUTE, WHERE PRYUSER WORKED UNTILL HIS DEATH IN 1986. 
> I WONDER IF ANYONE COULD GIVE ME THE POST- OR E-MAIL ADRESS OF THE MENNINGER 
> INSTITUTE IN THE U.S. 
> THE ONLY THING I KNOW IT IS SOMEWHERE IN KANSAS
> 
> iF YOU ARE FAMILIAR WITH OTHER WAYS TO RETRIEVE THIS ADRESS PLEASE CONTACT ME
> 
> BEST WISHES  HANS SCHILDERMAN
>
From: jbtaylor@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: sci.psychology
Subject: Re: MENNINGER INSTITUTE
Date: 20 Aug 92 13:13:41 CDT
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

In article <u251014.9@hnykun11.urc.kun.nl>, u251014@hnykun11.urc.kun.nl (Hans Schilderman) writes:
> 
> READING PRUYSERS PSYCHOLOGY OF RELIGION I BECAME INTERESTED IN THE MENNINGER 
> INSTITUTE, WHERE PRYUSER WORKED UNTILL HIS DEATH IN 1986. 
> I WONDER IF ANYONE COULD GIVE ME THE POST- OR E-MAIL ADRESS OF THE MENNINGER 
> INSTITUTE IN THE U.S. 
> THE ONLY THING I KNOW IT IS SOMEWHERE IN KANSAS
> 
> iF YOU ARE FAMILIAR WITH OTHER WAYS TO RETRIEVE THIS ADRESS PLEASE CONTACT ME
> 
> BEST WISHES  HANS SCHILDERMAN
> 
Newsgroups: sci.psychology
From: shl@ais.org (Stephen Landman)
Subject: Re: State investigates therapy tool
Organization: UMCC
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 03:15:38 GMT

In article <16030@pitt.UUCP> geb@dsl.pitt.edu (gordon e. banks) writes:
>This treatment has been fairly widely used by "Christian"
>therapists in attempts to reverse homosexuality.  Patients
>are shown male nude photos and given aversion stimuli to them.
>
>-- 
Well, like the proverbial hammer that can be used to build or
destroy, and tool can be misused in a destructive manner.

Actually, this technique was used in a way that Gordon describes
when it first came out, in the sixties, to try to change homosexuals.
At that time, homosexuality was classified psychiatrically as a
perversion, rather than a lifestyle or a biological fact or a matter
of legitimate choice.  Now, in the nineties, ethical use of the
method would not include such an application.  

Newsgroups: sci.psychology
From: vae@mch.chem.msu.su (Alexander E. Vaiskunskii)
Subject: re:questions on WELLNESS
Reply-To: vae@mch.chem.msu.su
Organization: unknown
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 12:02:48 +0200

In:
>Message-ID: <1992Jul21.091915.1@ualr.edu>
>From: sabarnett@ualr.edu
>Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 09:19:15 GMT

It is asked:
>Questions for INTERNET/BITNET Users:
>1. Are there any discussions about the subject of WELLNESS out there?
>2. Any and all information concerning this topic would be greatly appreciated.
>3. Information relating to mental and physical aspects of wellness are needed.

What do you mean by WELLNESS? You see, English is not my
native tongue. If WELLNESS is synonimous to health then
I bet some aspects of mental therapy are discussed in
the newsgroup.

Alexander Voiskounsky         Psychology Dept
vae@mch.chem.msu.su           Moscow Univ

Newsgroups: sci.psychology
From: bear@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Bear Giles)
Subject: Re: Partial Legalization
Organization: National Oceanic & Atmospheric Adminstration / Boulder Labs
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 05:36:08 GMT

In article <1992Aug10.023519.3973@pony.Ingres.COM> jpk@Ingres.COM (Jon Krueger) writes:
>Curtis Yarvin asks:
>> what have Pavlov's experiments with dogs done for you or me?
>
>Example: classical conditioning has been used to reduce repeat
>offenses of pedophiles.

Or trained them to better avoid detection.

Most undergraduate Introduction to Physics courses include a
lecture where two unsuspecting students measure the length of 
a table with a ruler... and come up with dramatically different
results.  Most of the students (not me!) miss the fact that the
professor was holding _two_ different rulers and casually handed
a different ruler to each student.

(BTW, the rulers were crude pieces of cardboard, not mass-produced
units of stamped wood or steel).

I've also read of one department which actually reprogrammed
calculators to scale results... you could literally punch in
"2" "x" "2" and get "5"!

The point:  hard science majors are taught to question what
the measurements actually show.  Don't just grab a ruler and
measure something: verify that your ruler is accurate as well.

Claiming a reduction in measured pedophile activity is because
pedophile activity is actually reduced, when the pedophile has
an incentive (the conditioning 'punishment') to show reduced
activity, seems on shaky grounds.


Bear Giles
bear@fsl.noaa.gov
Newsgroups: sci.psychology
From: nahabed@ntmtv.UUCP (Roupen Nahabedian)
Subject: Info on SCHIZOPHRENIA treatment requested
Originator: nahabed@nmtvs296
Keywords: Schizophrenia
Reply-To: nahabed@ntmtv.UUCP (Roupen Nahabedian)
Organization: Northern Telecom Inc, Mountain View, CA
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 01:02:34 GMT

I am trying to find out for an overseas friend the "approximate" 
annual cost for Schizophrenia treatment in the U.S... Any info.
or recommendations will be greatly apprecaited. Please reply by 
email.


Thanks in advance,

Roupen Nahabedian
Mountain View, California
UUCP:    ames!ntmtv!nahabed  or  nahabed@ntmtv.UUCP
ATTMAIL: monasa@attmail.com 
ARPANET: ntmtv!nahabed@ames.arc.nasa.gov
From: carlson@yottzumm.tis.llnl.gov (John Carlson)
Newsgroups: sci.psychology
Subject: Re: NEUROSIS COME TO BE
Date: 20 Aug 92 11:48:29 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory

In article <1992Aug15.195125.24487@colorado.edu> fedrick@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Kelvin W. Fedrick) writes:
>In article <1992Aug13.203246.11543@eos.arc.nasa.gov> shrum@eos.arc.nasa.gov (Rick Shrum) writes:
>>In article <1992Aug13.140454.575@ccsvax.sfasu.edu> z_templetocd@ccsvax.sfasu.edu writes:
>>>I THINK I AM SUFFERING FROM NEUROSIS
>>> [ Elided ]
>>>IM STARTING TO ENJOY THE MADNESS
>>>
>>>HOW CAN I STOP [ Elided ]
>>>
>>2) If you're serious, immediatly call a crisis intervention ctr. (listed
>>   in front of most phone book white pages.

>    Joking aside, wouldn't this be classified as a psychosis rather that
>    neurosis.

And there are medicines for psychosis.  You can also try writing down
what's going on in your head.

While you're enjoying the madness, consider this poem (it's just a poem, don't
read any extra meaning into it):

Without a doubt
Your wildest dreams come true
A waking nightmare which can't been seen
As meanings bounce and paradoxes churn
There's no turning back--or is there?

[ Removed potentially hazardous second verse ]

John
Newsgroups: sci.psychology
From: jpk@Ingres.COM (Jon Krueger)
Subject: Re: Psychology and statistics
Reply-To: jpk@Ingres.COM (Jon Krueger)
Organization: Ingres Division, ASK Computer Systems.
Distribution: sci
Date: 20 Aug 92 01:46:40 GMT

Bert N Uchino writes:
> Statistics allows researchers to evaluate the probability that
> a particular effect is due to chance.

Which is a useful thing.

It does nothing, however, to evaluate whether effects are
caused by the stated causes or by correlates, unknown and/or
unstated other factors, or artifacts.

> comment about post hoc "fishing" expeditions that presumably occur
> frequently in Social Psychology.  Post hoc explanations are not
> necessarily a bad thing.  No researcher is clever enough to think
> of all possible effects that might occur in particular study.

Why do we think we'll be wiser in choosing dependent variables
after designing the experiment than before?

-- Jon

Jon Krueger  jpk@ingres.com  
Newsgroups: sci.psychology
From: vae@mch.chem.msu.su (Alexander E. Vaiskunskii)
Subject: re:questions on WELLNESS
Reply-To: vae@mch.chem.msu.su
Organization: unknown
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 12:00:37 +0200


Newsgroups: sci.psychology
From: phoenixl@netcom.com (Scott Luebking)
Subject: Margaret Mahler
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 18:00:24 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Distribution: na

I'm interested in trying to contact Dr. Margaret Mahler.  Does anyone know
if she has an e-mail address or how I could contact her?
Thanks very much.
-- 
Scott Luebking
phoenixl@netcom.com
Newsgroups: sci.psychology
Subject: NEUROSIS COME TO BE
From: z_templetocd@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Date: 13 Aug 92 14:04:53 CST
Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University





I THINK I AM SUFFERING FROM NEUROSIS
CAN ANYONE HELP
IM LOSING IT QUICK
ALL I CAN THINK ABOUT IS KILLING
DEATH, DYING, DESTRUCTION
LIFE SHOULD NOT BE LIKE THIS
IM STARTING TO ENJOY THE MADNESS

HOW CAN I STOP BEFOORE SOMEONE DIES?


Xref: sparky sci.psychology:3505 alt.support:1234
From: yq01+@andrew.cmu.edu (Yulin Qin)
Newsgroups: sci.psychology,alt.support
Subject: Looking for a post-doc or RA position in neuroscience
Date: 17 Aug 92 19:25:54 GMT
Organization: Doctoral student, Psychology, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA


           Looking for a post-doc or RA position in neuroscience
 
	I am a graduate student in the department of psychology at Carnegie
Mellon University, with Herbert A. Simon as my advisor, and will get a
Ph.D. soon.
 
	The research I have done focuses on higher level cognition, which leads
to my desire to understand how cognition may actually be physically
implemented in the human brain. I am very eager to engage in
neuroscience research and gain experience in this field. Thus, salary
and other benefits are of secondary concern to me. What I primarily want
is a chance to learn and work in the area of  neuroscience after I
graduate from CMU. If I cannot be a post-doctoral fellow, I would like
to be a research assistant or something like that. 
 
	My publications, with my advisor and professor Tom Mitchell (computer
science, CMU), are related to the following areas:
	1) Scientific discovery (Cognitive Science (1990). 14, 281-308.);
	2) Human and machine learning (Proceedings of the Fifth Florida
Artificial Intelligence Research Symposium (1992). 235-239);
	3) Mental imagery and problem solving (Proceedings of the Twelfth
Annual Conference of the Cognitive Science Society (1990). 646-653; 
Working Notes of AAAI Spring Symposium on Reasoning with Diagrammatic
Representations (1992). 18-23; Proceedings of the Fourteenth Annual
Conference of the Cognitive Science Society (1992). 1050 - 1055).
 
	I have a Master's degree in computer science (Artificial Intelligence
and Statistical Pattern Recognition), and have a strong training and
five years experience in applied statistics (e.g., experiment design and
analysis).
 
	Detailed resume and sample publications will be be sent to anyone who
are interested in my application. Suggestions for where I may be able to
find a position in neuroscience are very much appreciated.
 
Yulin Qin  (Mr.)
Department of Psychology
Carnegie Mellon University
Pittsburgh, PA 15213
 
Phone (412)268-6284
E-mail: qin@psy.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: sci.psychology
From: jpk@Ingres.COM (Jon Krueger)
Subject: Re: Partial Legalization
Reply-To: jpk@Ingres.COM (Jon Krueger)
Organization: Ingres Division, ASK Computer Systems.
Date: 13 Aug 92 21:45:32 GMT

> Bandler tells this story: there was this experiment

Entertaining story.  Worth what most anecdotal accounts are worth.

-- Jon

Jon Krueger  jpk@ingres.com
From: cromwell@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: sci.psychology
Subject: Re: State investigates therapy tool
Date: 13 Aug 92 12:13:55 GMT
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

In article <BswJq4.26s@ais.org>, shl@ais.org (Stephen Landman) writes:
> In article <16030@pitt.UUCP> geb@dsl.pitt.edu (gordon e. banks) writes:
>>This treatment has been fairly widely used by "Christian"
>>therapists in attempts to reverse homosexuality.  Patients
>>are shown male nude photos and given aversion stimuli to them.

> Well, like the proverbial hammer that can be used to build or
> destroy, and tool can be misused in a destructive manner.

> Actually, this technique was used in a way that Gordon describes
> when it first came out, in the sixties, to try to change homosexuals.
> At that time, homosexuality was classified psychiatrically as a
> perversion, rather than a lifestyle or a biological fact or a matter
> of legitimate choice.  Now, in the nineties, ethical use of the
> method would not include such an application.  

They are still at it.
-- 
Rick 
Newsgroups: sci.psychology
From: jpk@Ingres.COM (Jon Krueger)
Subject: Re: Cognitive Science 
Reply-To: jpk@Ingres.COM (Jon Krueger)
Organization: Ask Computer Systems Inc., Ingres Division, Alameda CA 94501
Date: 16 Aug 92 03:20:55 GMT

Kelvin W. Fedrick writes:
>>>>> and maze run times are used as a measure of performance
>>> we could be testing for whether localized damage due to
>>> cutting up parts of the brain damages the skills in maze
>>> running (memory being key here).
>> What performance is being measured here?  Something about memory?
>> Something about running?
> Depends on what you cut out, when you cut it out
> and how the experiment is run in general.

To have the dependent variable vary as a function of the independent
variable is great fun and good science.

To have the dependent variable measure different things depending on
what we do with the independent variable (and random other things)
could still be good science...provided we specify those other things.

Could you give an example of what's being measured here, specifying
things that it depends on if necessary?

> Memory, or more precisely, consolidation of memories,
> (i.e. things like transfer of things from short-term or medium-term
> memory to long-term memory) is one thing that can be tested here by
> damaging structures in the brain known to influence the transfer of
> information from short-term to long-term memory. The phenomena in
> being looked at has to do with retrograde and (posterior?) amnesia. 

Sort-crossing.  You mean CNS structures which when damaged affect
certain behaviors.

-- Jon
--
Jon Krueger  jpk@ingres.com  
Newsgroups: sci.psychology
From: u251014@hnykun11.urc.kun.nl (Hans Schilderman)
Subject: psychology of religion
Keywords: religion, Menninger Institute
Organization: Department of Theology. Catholic University of Nijmegen, The Netherlands
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 10:56:54 GMT

Reading Pruysers psychology of religion I found that he worked 
untill his death in 1986 in the Menninger Institute in Kansas U.S.A.

I was wondering whether or not there is a research tradition with regard 
to the psychology of religion in this Menninger Institute

Is there anyone who can help me out? I would appreciate if somebody 
could give me a post or E-mail adress of the Menninger institute

By the way, is there anybody reading this familiar with research-traditions 
on the psychology of religion? 

Best wishes
Hans Schilderman Nijmegen
Newsgroups: sci.engr
From: tattersall_derek@macmail1.rtsg.mot.com
Subject: Re: Macintosh Analog to Digital Board
Organization: CSG Group
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 14:29:52 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.150731.26359@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> wakankar@egr.msu.edu
(PUT YOUR NAME HERE) writes:
>In article <1992Aug17.201224.15400@Princeton.EDU>
weisberg@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Arel Y. Weisberg) writes:
>>My lab is looking to purchase an a/d board as well as associated software
>>for an Apple Macintosh computer.
>>
>>Any help/advice/product info/tales of never ending nightmares would be
greatly
>>appreciated.
>>
>>Arel Weisberg
>>weisberg@phoenix.princeton.edu
>
>I know of a software called LABVIEW, manufactured by National Instruments in
Austin Texas, which can be used A/D and D/A conversion and high speed digital
data acquisition. It is a pretty good software whose main purpose is for
various control applications.
>
>If you can't get the address or phone number thro' directory enquiry, send me
an e-mail. I'll give you the phone number.
>
>Pa
>

Labview is sold by National Instruments. They also make a large line of A/D-D/A
boards for the Mac and the PC. We have had good results with them and Labview
software.

National Instruments corporate office: 512 794 0100
From: mike@drseus.jsc.nasa.gov (mike)
Newsgroups: sci.engr
Subject: Re: P.E. licensing and reciprocity
Date: 13 Aug 92 01:32:45 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Lockheed Engineering & Sciences Company

For what it's worth, I was able to take the P.E. exam about one year
after getting my B.S.  This was in Mississippi, and I was told that the test
was but one of the requirements, and it didn't matter when I took it.  
Once I also had the requisite 4 or 5 years of experience, and the bucks
to register, I could have applied for the P.E.  I moved to Texas, instead,
and I was told here that the test was not required if you could get letters
of recommendation from registered P.E.'s.  I'm not sure that's still the
case, but I haven't inquired into it since then (c. 1986).

Just my 10,000,000 rubles ($0.02).
-- 
******************************** mike@drseus.jsc.nasa.gov *****
* Michael L. Ross/C33 | Lockheed Engineering & Sciences Co.   *
* Robotics Department | 2400 Nasa Rd. 1, Houston, TX 77062    *
*(713)333-7094 voice,(713)333-7201 fax*************************