From: quezon@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Antonio Quezon)
Newsgroups: rec.birds
Subject: Re: Optics: Most Frequently Asked Question
Date: 7 Apr 92 12:12:54 GMT
Reply-To: quezon@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Antonio Quezon)
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD




When I posted a request for information regarding spotting scopes
at the beginning of the year (1992), I got plenty of information,
advice, opinions, etc.  I have had a Bushnell Spacemaster II for
about three years.  I am a volunteer bald eagle surveyor at Mason
Neck State Park and Mason Neck National Wildlife Refuge in Lorton,
VA about 30 minutes south of Washington D.C. and have been
developing an interest in waterfowl and shore birds (thanks Ed)
more recently.  These are classic applications for spotting scopes.
Initially, the two spotting scopes that were of interest to me were
the Kowa TSN-4 and the Nikon ED II.  After shopping around, pricing,
and testing these scopes, I formed some PERSONAL conclusions and
opinions.

First of all, up to about 45x, the Kowa TSN-4 and Nikon ED II far
exceeded in brightness, clarity, and sharpness of detail the
performace of my Spacemaster II.  I have come to the conclusion
(opinion) that 45x is probably the upper limit that spotting scopes
in the 60 to 77 mm objective lens format (refractors) should be
used.  The image quality (clarity, sharpness, and brightness)
quickly deteriorates.  My opinion about choosing between the Kowa
TSN-4 and the Nikon ED II is that the Kowa may be nominally
brighter in lower light conditions than the Nikon, but its image
clarity and/or sharpness is NOT any better, especially considering
that the Kowa cost about $300 more than the Nikon.  I have several
friends with the Nikon and they do not hesitate to recommend it,
and neither would I based on my experiences.

After studying up on the Nikon and Kowa spotting scopes, I requested
information from a knowledgeable BIRDCHAT source regarding Questar
spotting scopes.  I found a local distributor not too far from where
I work and went for a test drive on my lunch break.  There is
absolutely no comparison between the Nikons, Kowas, Bushnells and
the Questar.  Of course there is a factor of 3 to 4 in the
difference in costs between the refractors and the Questar, but as
they say, you have to see it to believe it.  If I had unlimited
resources (like my good buddy Ed :-)) I would run right out this
afternoon and buy a Questar.  As it is, I'll have to raid my
Christmas club account to be able to afford one.  But one day ...
                                                                  
Enclosed is some information regarding prices and sources for the
scopes mentioned above.  Sales tax rates refer to MD or VA sales
tax that I might have to pay.  If anyone has additional information
regarding prices and/or sources, I would appreciate an e-mail.
Also included are e-mail and/or BB postings regarding other birders'
opinions and experiences regarding spotting scopes and tripods.




A.J. (Tony) Quezon                            David Taylor Model Basin
quezon@oasys.dt.navy.mil                      Carderock Division Headquarters
Office: (301)227-1645                         Naval Surface Warfare Center
Home:   (703)435-3965                         Code 1282
                                              Bethesda, MD  20084-5000



------------------------------------------------------------------
                       || Nikon Field ||   Kowa    ||  Questar
Dealer                 || Scope ED II ||  TSN-4    ||  Birder 3.5
-----------------------||-------------||-----------||--------------
christophers, ltd.     ||   649.00    ||  959.00   ||  2699.00
National Camera Exch.  ||   649.95    ||  949.90   ||
Orion                  ||   697.00    ||           ||
Redlich                ||             ||  999.00   ||
ANS                    ||             ||           ||
Wild Bird Center       ||             ||  989.95a  ||
Birding                ||   722.00    ||  970.50   ||
Wild Bird Company      ||             ||  850.00b  ||
Company VII Astro      ||   650.00    ||           ||  2985.00b
Eagle Optics           ||   629.00    ||  948.00   ||  2845.00
Wholesale Optics of PA ||             || ~850.00   ||  2776.00
                       ||             ||           || 
                       ||             ||           || 
------------------------------------------------------------------

Prices for the Nikon and Kowa, unless otherwise noted, include
20-45x and 20-60x zoom eyepieces respectively.

a - 20x WA (plus sales tax, 5%)
b - must be ordered (plus sales tax, 5%)

Standard:
  Nikon Field Scope ED II - 20-45x Zoom, various fixed magnification
                            eyepieces
  Kowa TSN-4 - 20-60x Zoom, various fixed magnification eyepieces
  Questar Birder 3.5 - Pyrex mirror, Broad-band coating (optional,
                       but recommended), 32 mm eyepiece (8.5x, 40x,
                       65x), rapid focus.
                       Optional: 32 mm eyepiece (40x, 65x)
                                 24 mm eyepiece (54x, 87x)
                                 16 mm eyepiece (81x, 130x)
                                 12 mm eyepiece
                                  8 mm eyepiece

***********************************************************************************
***********************************************************************************

From: rcb33483@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (ArchTeryx)
Newsgroups: rec.birds
Subject: Re: Kowa TSN-2 vs. Nikon ED scopes? Kowa Zoom?
Date: 30 Sep 91 20:26:27 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

lgorbet@carina.unm.edu (Larry P Gorbet ANTHROPOLOGY) writes:

>   (a) the Nikon ED
>or (b) the Kowa TSN-2

>  She also wonders, if she gets the TSN-2, how the Kowa 20-60x zoom is. I
>have been prejudiced against zooms, but I sorta gather this Kowa zoom 
>eyepiece might be an exception. Is it? How does it hold up at, say, 40x?

I used to own a Kowa TSN-2 before it got lost in a bus company mishap. :<
I had the 20-60x eyepiece, and you're right, it's about the best zoom
lens I have ever seen.  It is crystal clear at 20x, fades a little 
(but retains nearly 100% of it's resolution) at 40x, and 60x both resolution
and color tend to fade.  However, in daylight, *even 60x* gave an excellent 
picture; the 60x on the Kowa was better then the 40x of several other scopes
I've seen!

And BTW, the TSN-4 does *not* give any clearer view then the TSN-2.  What the
Flourite lenses are used for are photography; it makes the pictures 
remarkably clear, but only the film can 'see' the difference; I'm tried
both, and couldn't tell the difference with my eye.  I have heard others
claim there is a slight difference...but if you're not planning to use
the TSN-4 as a ultralens, it's not worth the cost.  If you are, it's 
practically worth it's weight in gold...I'm not a photographer myself but
I've seen pictures taken with standard scopes, the TSN-2, and the TSN-4, and
there are some BIG differences, especially in marginal condictions...IMHO,
the TSN-4 is better then almost anything else I've seen.

Unfortunately I don't know much about the Nikon ED...I've known about it
but never tried it...all I know is from owning my Hawk-Owl (name I gave
my TSN-2) and comparing it on field trips to other scopes.

*a moment of silent irrelivant cursing of Greyhound for losing my scope--
 *and* my binoculars...*

--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
R. Cody Buchmann                             ^.^  
  "ArchTeryx"                 
                                      "Of *course* I understand you--I speak 
email: rcb33483@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu       1406 intergalactic avian dialects!"  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

***********************************************************************************

From: gribble@ogre.cica.indiana.edu
Newsgroups: rec.birds
Subject: Re: Kowa TSN-2 vs. Nikon ED scopes? Kowa Zoom?
Date: 30 Sep 91 22:41:03 GMT
Organization: Center for Innovative Computing Applications (CICA), Indiana University

In <5pqcaqf@lynx.unm.edu> lgorbet@carina.unm.edu (Larry P Gorbet ANTHROPOLOGY) writes:

>  I have a friend and occasional birding companion getting ready to buy
>a spotting scope, and I wonder if anyone could help on a couple of points.

>  She has pretty much narrowed the field to either
>   (a) the Nikon ED
>or (b) the Kowa TSN-2

>  I wish she would decide to afford a TSN-4 but it doesn't look like it. 
>So would anyone with comparative experience with the ED vs. TSN-2 offer
>comments?

According the folks at Living Bird Quarterly (Cornell lab of Ornithology)
the TSN-4 and 2, and the Nikon ED II were all rated as #1 in the overall
rating.  However, in the text the TSN's were described as the "winner's
hands-down".

>  She also wonders, if she gets the TSN-2, how the Kowa 20-60x zoom is. I
>have been prejudiced against zooms, but I sorta gather this Kowa zoom 
>eyepiece might be an exception. Is it? How does it hold up at, say, 40x?

Once again according to the LBQ, the zoom is excellent and was recommended
as the eyepiece to use.

>  Thanks.

***********************************************************************************

From: jhiggott@axion.bt.co.uk (Jeff Higgott)
Newsgroups: rec.birds
Subject: Re: binos/scopes
Date: 2 Oct 91 08:28:24 GMT
Reply-To: JHiggott@axion.bt.co.uk
Organization: British Telecom Research Labs


In article <1991Oct1.135325.7951@siesoft.co.uk>, rob@siesoft.co.uk (Rob
Henley) writes:
1. is the new Nikon "spotting" scope as good a bargain as it appears?

 I haven't seen it; the fieldscope/ED are excellent though

2. what are the pros and cons of a 20x eyepiece as opposed to a 40-60 zoom?
   guess the zoom would let considerably less light through?)

  Fixed mag eyepieces tend to give a higher quality image.  I had a zoom
   once an rarely moved it from 25x.  I currently have a fixed 20x and am 
   very happy with that.  I would not go for a zoom that started as high as 
   40x - I find 20x to 40x to be the most useful range for birding.
 
3. what's the most practical way to mount a scope if you want to carry 
   around a minimum of equipment?

     If a tripod is too heavy, then try  monopod or a shoulder pod.  I 
    prefer to suffer the weight of a tripod to get the extra stability.

4. are there advantages to the angled eyepieces which I've seen on some
   Optolyth scopes?

       Disadvantages: The eyepiece can gather rain
       Advantages:  It is easier to draw birds whilst watching them since
    you can look at the bird with one eye and the sketchbook with the
    other.  Raptors and other birds high above you can be watched more
    comfortably.  If you are tall (like me) you can get by with a shorter
    tripod.

       I use an angled eyepiece and would be reluctant to change.

5. I find I get a twitch if I screw one eye up for too long! Do any scopes
   have "binocular" eyepieces? Otherwise I guess it'll have to be an eye
   patch!

      No sensibly priced tripods have binocular eyepieces.  We frequently 
    use eye patches when sea watching.  Either Captain Hook type patches
    or a piece of black plastic extending from the eyepiece in front of 
    the other eye;  the open eye is then just looking at blackness which
    doesn't interrupt the sea watch.  I also find that angled eyepieces
    help when sea watching - far more comfortable.


Jeff...


 "There's a thin line between fishing and standing on the shore looking
   like an idiot." - Steven Wright

***********************************************************************************

From: Laurie Larson <LLARSON@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU>
To: QUEZON@OASYS
Subject:  scopes
Status: RO


Tony,
I have not used the Nikon scope. I owned a Spacemaster for
many years, and it served me well; they are virtually
indestructable, and quite satisfactory. One day, I was
looking at a distant hawk in a tree through my
spacemaster and couldn't figure out what it was.
Someone offered me a look through a Kowa. The bird
instantly resolved into an imm. Cooper's Hawk. Then
and there I knew if I had to sell my car I had to have
a Kowa. Fortunately that wasn't necessary...

I made myself notorious on birdchat a year or so ago by
quoting one of my friends who said "I like my Questar,
but I bought it before there were Kowas. If I were doing
it now, I'd buy the Kowa instead". People have a hard
time believing that, but the Kowa truly approaches the
quality of the Q at comparable magnifications, and is
far easier to use. If it is within your budget, go for it;
you won't regret it. Or consider the TSN2, also quite good.

As for the eyepieces, I have the 20-60 zoom, as well as the
40x and the 20x.  I scarcely ever use the 20x. I put the zoom
on when I am with a group and a lot of people will be using the
scope, since it is more flexible and easier to spot things
with it. When birding alone I use the 40x; optically it is
much better than the zoom, and you get used to spotting with
it with practice. Lots of people like the new 30x objective too.

get in touch if you have more questions.
Laurie
llarson@pucc.princeton.edu

***********************************************************************************

>From <@VM.USC.EDU:ICDLJ@ASUACAD.BITNET> Mon Jan 27 13:10:07 1992
Received: from vm.usc.edu by oasys.dt.navy.mil (5.61/oasys.dt.navy.mil)
	id AA12734; Mon, 27 Jan 92 13:11:14 EST
Message-Id: <9201271811.AA12734@oasys.dt.navy.mil>
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   with BSMTP id 4232; Mon, 27 Jan 92 10:11:16 PST
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 id 5422; Mon, 27 Jan 92 11:10:25 MST
Date:         Mon, 27 Jan 92 11:04:56 MST
From: ICDLJ%ASUACAD.BITNET@VM.USC.EDU
Subject:      Spotting Scope
To: Antonio <quezon@oasys>
Status: RO


 I bought a fixed 10X Spacemaster II in Aug of '76 which has served well.
 No physical problems.
 The lenses may fog as the unit is not pressurized or sealed, but it hasn't
 happened to me.

 10X tho, is insufficient mag to clearly see .223 cal holes at 200 yards-
 should you use it for High Power and prefer the M-15/16 to an M1 or M14.

 Deffinitely get the variable or a 20X min.

<icdlj@asuacad.bitnet>                  Dave Janecek -Electronic Field Service
<icdlj@asuvm.inre.asu.edu>              Tech. c/o I.R.M. Tech Shop-0201, ASU,
                                       Tempe, Arizona  85287-0201 :602-965-9126
                                                          or home :602-832-7127

***********************************************************************************

>From rickwright@uiuc.edu Mon Jan 27 13:12:02 1992
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1992 12:13:32 -0600
To: quezon@OASYS
From: rickwright@uiuc.edu
Subject: Re: Spottingfscope advice requested

avoid zoom lenses!

quite a price spread in the alternatives you list.

see latest _Birding_ for some less enthusiastic comments about the kowa.

***********************************************************************************

>From David.A.Merker@Dartmouth.EDU Mon Jan 27 13:27:42 1992
Date: 27 Jan 92 13:29:48
From: David.A.Merker@Dartmouth.EDU
Subject: scopes
To: quezon@oasys

Yuo may have opened pandora's box by asking this question!  Someone asked for
scope advice a few months ago and the mail was a clutter of scope advice and
clammering back and forth.  It was informative and entertaining, but after a
while it was a pain in the ass!  Anyway here's my 2 cents or is that sense!

I have a  Spacemeaster w/22WA no zoom  for 10 years and it has been fantastic,
sturdy, optically clear as a bell and $200 with a tripod 10 years ago.


Let me know what you get and the cost!

Dave Merker
Brookbend Banding Station
Vershire, Vt

David.A.Merker@Dartmouth.EDU

***********************************************************************************

>From <@VM.USC.EDU:BIRDCHAT@ARIZVM1.BITNET> Mon Jan 27 13:56:41 1992
Date:         Mon, 27 Jan 1992 10:48:46 PST
Reply-To: "National Birding Hotline Cooperative (Chat Line)"              <BIRDCHAT%ARIZVM1.BITNET@VM.USC.EDU>
From: Emmalee Tarry GSF 264-1981 <tarry@WHEEL.ENET.DEC.COM>
Subject:      RE: Spottingfscope advice requested
X-To:         birdchat%arizvm1.bitnet@vm.usc.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list BIRDCHAT <BIRDCHAT%ARIZVM1.BITNET@VM.USC.EDU>

Emmalee Tarry   Nashua, NH

                      KOWA TSN-4    vs.   NIKON

I recently took the plunge and invested in a new KOWA TSN-4 spotting scope to
replace my much loved NIKON.  My NIKON is 4 years old and was one of the first
put out.  It does not have the coated lenses or a zoom eye piece.  Instead I
used it with a 20X and sometimes a 40X eye piece.  It does have close eye relief
for eyeglasses wearers provided by a rubber fold down gasket.  It cost $200
when purchased new.  I have used it extensively with a very lightweight
aluminium tripod.  I found the 40X eye piece to be almost useless.  It was
thread mounted and by the time I unscrewed the 20 power and screwed in the 40
power, the object was no longer in the field.  If and when I finally found
the bird through the pin hole size field, the image was so faded it was hardly
worth the effort.

The KOWA like the NIKON is a straight tube model.  It has the fluorite coated
lenses and a zoom  20X to 60X eyepiece. I was told the KOWA required a steadier
tripod so I purchased a Bogen tripod which weighs 8 pounds. I always use eye
relief since I wear glasses.

Saturday I set both scopes up in my apartment so close the barrels were
touching and focused both on a small bunch of red berries some 100 yards from
the window.  The sun was very bright.  ( It was also very cold which explains
why I wasn't out looking at something more interesting than a bunch of
berries.)  I admit that the test wasn't fair since the KOWA had the sturdier
tripod, however there was no wind in my apartment and I tried very hard not
to cause any vibrations when looking through the scopes.

I observed the following differences:

	The berries were slightly larger in the KOWA than the NIKON.  ( Both
	were on 20X power.)  The field of view for the NIKON was slightly
	larger.

	The image was noticeably brighter in the KOWA although in bright sun
	this was not much of an advantage.  I could count the berries through
	both scopes and distinguish that some berries were red, some pale
        and some brown. The NIKON image was slightly yellowier compared to the
	KOWA.

	As the light faded toward darkness it became harder and harder to
	distinguish brown berries from red berries until I could not do it at
	all with the NIKON.  I could still count the berries with both scopes.

	When it was almost dark, I could no longer easily count the berries
	through the NIKON.

	By the light of the moon, I could still see individual berries with
	the KOWA. They were all brown looking.


	When zooming the KOWA from 20X to 60X there is a noticeable decline
	in brightness of the image at the 60X mark.  Turning the power down
	about a 1/4 turn restores the brightness.


My evaluation of all this is that the KOWA TSN-4 scope is slightly better than
the NIKON. It is quite a bit heavier and certainly more expensive.

One of the best things about the KOWA is that you can purchase a cover that can
remain on the scope when the scope is on the tripod.  Unfortunately the front
opening is poorly designed.  I can whip open the back part very quickly, but
have to have the scope in proper position to unzip the front. The case is not
designed to properly protect the scope from rain.  It would not have helped the
day I stood all day long in a freezing rain waiting for Ross' Gull.  I used an
umbrella that day to protect the Nikon scope. Unfortunately you can't move the
scope, focus and hold an umbrella. The Kowa case unzips vertically leaving the
scope exposed when open.  I have seen cases that unzip horizontally and then
fold back.  If water proof they would protect the scope in the rain.  The Kowa
is too large to be covered by a plastic shower cap ( the protection I use for
the Nikon.)

I am still struggling with moving quickly from carrying the tripod and scope on
my back using the strap to having it set up and ready for viewing.  I was very
good at doing this with my old arrangement.  Most of the extra time is due to
the Bogen tripod and not the scope.  I don't think I will ever be as fast as I
was with the old arrangement.

I think this is good news all the way around.  If you don't want to spend the
money for the KOWA, the NIKON is still a very good alternative.  On the other
hand if you, like me feel that your aging eyes could use a boost, you can get
it from the KOWA. Please note also that the NIKON Ed Scope is an improvement
over my model. (Of course it is also more expensive. )

When I upgraded my binoculars from an inexpensive pair to a pair of Zeiss
10X40, I planned to keep my old bins as backup.  Within a very short period of
time the old bins were on their way to the Belize project because I could no
longer imagine ever using them again. I am sure this will not happen with the
scopes as the difference between them is not as great.

I am going to keep my NIKON scope for two reasons.  First I can anticipate that
for some trips where I will be walking long distances I will want to revert
to the much lighter scope and tripod. Another reason is that on some trips such
as to Costa Rica, I may have to leave my scope locked in the car.  Although I
carry insurance on both scopes, I prefer to risk a $200 scope.

If I didn't have a scope at all and was planning to buy one, I think I would
purchase the NIKON ED rather than the Kowa.  A scope that requires tender
loving care is not as valuable as one that will survive the worst you can throw
at it. I also anticipate that some manufacturer will pay attention to the real
needs of birders and make an armored scope that is truly waterproof.  Last
summer I witnessed a brand new TSN-2 fall into a fresh water lake. The lake was
only a few inches deep and the scope quickly retrieved.  I hope it was OK.

***********************************************************************************

>From <@VM.USC.EDU:BIRDCHAT@ARIZVM1.BITNET> Mon Jan 27 14:32:13 1992
Date:         Mon, 27 Jan 1992 13:59:13 EST
Reply-To: "National Birding Hotline Cooperative (Chat Line)"              <BIRDCHAT%ARIZVM1.BITNET@VM.USC.EDU>
From: GAIL%UMDC.BITNET@VM.USC.EDU
Subject:      Spottingfscope advice requested
To: Multiple recipients of list BIRDCHAT <BIRDCHAT%ARIZVM1.BITNET@VM.USC.EDU>

Tony -- about spotting scopes, a lot depends on what you want and what you want
to spend.  The Spacemaster is inexpensive, with the 22X (wideangle) eyepiece
it is very adequate for most scanning and viewing. The zoom optics are, in my
opinion, not much good (I have one and barely use it). Maybe buy a 22X and a
45X fixed magnification. The Spacemaster is also almost indestructible. The
60mm objective doesn't let in as much light as scopes like the Kowa, another
disadvantage. Of course, you can buy the whole package for under $200 and
that is certainly a bargain!

I don't have any experience with the Nikon ED -- my camera equipment is Nikon,
and the ED lenses are top of the line on speed and light-gathering, but how
this package fits together in a scope, I'm not sure. Perhaps another Chatliner
can fill you in on this.


The Kowa scopes are first-rate, the TSN-1/2 are very good and (to some people)
virtually as good as the TSN-3/4 which costs almost 3x as much.  You should
try both out under similar viewing conditions (light, etc.) before making a
choice on the TSN-4. I think the 4 IS better, but maybe not THAT much better.
Kowas are not as sturdy as Spacemasters, but are fine field instruments. The
zoom eyepiece is very good, although some folks have told me they still\prefer
fixed mag eyepieces.

The important thing is to try out these scopes -- go somewhere where a lot of
birders with scopes converge, and ask to try them out. Also, there are several
local outfits in the D.C. area that carry these scopes, so try them out there
as well.

But a scope will definitely add a new dimension to your birding!

Gail@UMDC



***********************************************************************************


>From edm@verdix.com Tue Jan 28 09:10:05 1992
Received: from sarge.hq.Verdix.COM by oasys.dt.navy.mil (5.61/oasys.dt.navy.mil)
	id AA23740; Tue, 28 Jan 92 09:11:16 EST
Received: from milo.hq.Verdix.COM by verdix.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/ccg.7.2.91)
	id AA09593; Tue, 28 Jan 92 09:09:32 EST
Received: by milo.hq.Verdix.COM (4.0/SMI-4.1-2)
	id AA23939; Tue, 28 Jan 92 09:10:22 EST
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 92 09:10:22 EST
From: edm@verdix.com (Ed Matthews)
Message-Id: <9201281410.AA23939@milo.hq.Verdix.COM>
To: quezon@oasys
Subject: Re: Request for spotting scope info
Newsgroups: rec.birds
Organization: Verdix Corp.
Cc: 
Status: RO

In article <14563@oasys.dt.navy.mil> you write:
 
>I am in the market for a spotting scope and would appreciate
>any advice, experiences, comments, recommendations, etc. regarding
>the following models.
>
>Bushnell Spacemaster II w/ 15x-45x zoom
>Nikon Fieldscope ED II w/ 15x-45x zoom
>Kowa TSN-4 w/ 20x-60x zoom

Tony,

About a year ago I went through the process of buying a new scope. 

I've used Spacemasters in the past and I don't like them.  They don't
have enough eye relief to be compatible with my eyeglasses.  I
especially don't like the little pinhole sight in the eyepiece.  I can
never find anything in it and when I do, it always seems to waver.
However, the Spacemaster is cheap, light, and indestructible.  The
optics are marginal.  They are "everybody's first scope."

I have never used a Nikon scope, but their ED optics are reknowned.

I have used a TSN-4 and it has the best optics of any scope that I have
ever used.  However, (and this is a big however) the price, as you know,
is astronomical.  For the price, I cannot see buying the TSN-4 over the 
1 or the 2.  As an eyeglasses wearer, I have a hard time using the Kowa
scopes.  They have the same problems for me as the Bushnell scopes.  Also,
they're pretty fragile.

What I ended up doing (and you probably don't want to hear this) is going
up to the top of the Bushnell line and buying the Bausch & Lomb Elite
scope.  I love it.  It is armored, waterproof, lightweight, tough, and
fits in my briefcase for all those trips to the west coast.  It also has
a huge eye piece that makes finding things easy.  The optics are very
good.  I have the 22x fixed, not the zoom.  The price was right.  I belong
to a buying service and was able to get the scope for around $250.  
Several owners of TSN-4's have been quite impressed with the optics as
was I when I first tested it.

I highly recommend spending a lot of money on the tripod.  A good scope
on a flimsy tripod is of less use than a lousy scope on a good tripod.
I use the Bogen 3021 with the micro head.  This is pretty much the
standard birder's tripod.  This weighs in at a hefty 8 lbs, which
can be hard to carry for long distances, but is great when you're
up on a headland in a 40 knot wind trying to see if that alcid 200
feet below you is a Marbled or Ancient Murrelet.

You're welcome to borrow my scope to try it out if you want.

I've been thinking about organizing a trip to Bombay Hook/Ocean City/
Chincoteague in the near future.  That would be a good opportunity
to see a bunch of scopes if you are interested.

Happy shopping,

Ed
-- 

Ed Matthews                                                edm@verdix.com
Verdix Corporation Headquarters                            (703) 318-5800
Herndon, Virginia


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>From <@VM.USC.EDU:BIRDCHAT@ARIZVM1.BITNET> Tue Jan 28 09:17:28 1992
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Date:         Tue, 28 Jan 1992 16:15:52 EET
Reply-To: "National Birding Hotline Cooperative (Chat Line)"              <BIRDCHAT%ARIZVM1.BITNET@VM.USC.EDU>
From: Annika Forsten INF <aforsten@ATON.ABO.FI>
Subject:      Re:  TRIPODS
To: Multiple recipients of list BIRDCHAT <BIRDCHAT%ARIZVM1.BITNET@VM.USC.EDU>
              at Jan 27, 92 7:12 pm
Status: RO

>From Annika Forsten, Finland       aforsten@aton.abo.fi

The most popular tripods here in Finland are Manfrotto and Gitzo (for
heavy scopes) and Slik Master (for light ones). Are these in use in the
US?

The most popular scopes are Kowa and Optolyth.


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