From: adams@spss.com (Steve Adams)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: The delusional nature of sincere belief.
Date: 1 Jan 93 00:42:30 GMT
Organization: SPSS Inc.

drake+@cs.cmu.edu (Drake) writes:

>In article <adams.725739195@spssig> adams@spss.com (Steve Adams) writes:
>
>>I can't answer this question...I don't know.   The best I can do is believe
>>in God, trust Scripture, repent my sins and live my life the best I can.
>
>To what end is this "the best you can do?"  In concrete terms, what do you
>hope to get out of this, that you choose to follow the way of another
>rather than your own?
To have a right relationship with God.

>>Speaking 'off the record' so to speak, there are many ways to look at
>>Genesis.  Paul Harvey and I went through a theoretical thing on this back
>>in the fall.  Some of the conversation went along these lines.
>
>Off the record, of course...glad God doesn't subscribe to this
>newsgroup, huh? ;-)  Seriously, I would've liked to have seen that
>discussion.  Sounds relatively interesting.

I have quite a bit of it archived...if you are really interested, drop me
some email and I'll send it to you.  (adams@spss.com)

>>For all those things I've done that are ungodly...and there are a lot.
>>Yes, I repent of some, but not of all..I can't deny who I was and what I
>>was before I was saved...
>     ^^^^^^ ^ ^^^ ^^^^^
>
>I thought you started out this post saying that it was impossible to
>know whether you were saved or not...? <g>
Sorry...dropped back into the 'lingo'...better said is "before I put my
faith in the salvation of Jesus Christ"...

>Are you saying that you are willingly unrepentant of some of your
>so-called sin?  I'm not sure I understand this.
Well, uhm, yes.  Basically, I look at who I was 'then' and those things I
did made perfect sense, and in the same position I would do the same thing.
How can I repent that?

>Your premise - "If you do ungodly things, you deserve hell" isn't quite
>what I was looking for.  If a woman refuses to have sex with a man, would
>you say that she "deserves" rape?  
Of course not...but the analogy is false.

>"Deserve" seems to be one of those
>semantically null verbs, that really doesn't mean anything.  What I
>think you're saying - correct me if I'm misinterpreting what you're
>saying - is "God has the power to send me to hell.  He says that if
>I do certain things that he says are 'ungodly,' then that's where he's
>going to send me.  If done those things, and so he's probably going to
>send me to hell."  Is that about it?
Except for salvation through Jesus Christ, this is 100% correct...

>In all honesty, I agree with you and the guy I quoted last time, in a
>sense.  I do what I consider right, with little regard for any moral
>system or societal convention.  I consider what others think I should
>or should not do, but ultimately, the decision - and the responsibility -
>lies with me.  If what you believe is right, and God chooses to send me
>to hell, then I will go gladly - not because I think I "deserve" it, but
>because I would not wish to spend a single moment in a heaven ruled by
>such a God as that.
I see your point...but to me, God being the all-powerful creator, has the 
right to set up the system any way he wishes...I don't always like it,
either.  But in the end, He is God and His way is right(tm).

 -Steve
--
  The opinions expressed above are those of the author and not SPSS, Inc.
                         -------------------
   adams@spss.com                                  Phone: (312) 329-3522
   Steve Adams        "Space-age cybernomad"       Fax:   (312) 329-3558
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc