From: holzman@fnalno.fnal.gov (Daniel B. Holzman)
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Subject: Re: excerpts from a new book....
Date: 12 Aug 1992 16:08:10 GMT
Organization: FERMILAB
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: remarque.berkeley.edu
Originator: muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu

In article <01GNGGSL486800036P@FALCON.AAMRL.WPAFB.AF.MIL>, 
KMCCLOSKEY@FALCON.AAMRL.WPAFB.AF.MIL (KATHY MCCLOSKEY) writes:
> parasitic ex-wives who prevent them from seeing their children.  In
> reality, the father's rights movement campaigns against abortion
> rights and in some cases against all forms of birth control; counsels
> men to kidnap children, either legally or illegally, 
> alimony, health, and child-support payments; lobbies against

I would like to see evidence supporting these claims.

> state-initiated actions against "deadbeat dads" and _for_ programs
> that replace women's rights to a lawyer and a court hearing with
> mandatory mediation favoring joint legal custody; 

The 1990 census shows that fathers with joint custody are over 90% likely to
pay the full ordered child support.  What I have seen opposed is systems which
give exclusive parenting to the mother, or "visitation" and full child support
to the father.

> lobbies the media
> and state legislatures to dismiss allegations that fathers commit
> incest (as lies fabricated by vindictive wives and manipulative
> children), 

As followers of Arron Hoffmeyer's case can attest, this does happen on
occasion.  I make a distiction between a child saying that the father is an
abuser and the mother saying it.

> manipulates anecdotal and social science data (e.g., about
> "battered husbands"), and demands--and commands--"equal time" in
> public and media discussions; 

And why not discuss it?

> fails to lobby for health, education,
> and welfare--a family allowance appropriate to human needs and
> dignity...they argue that the best way to achieve women's liberation
> is through a "gender neutral" approach--by treating men and women,
> mothers and fathers, as if they were the same; i.e., all white men and
> as such, deserving of equality.  

Given the recent men's vs. women's issues discussion, I find the criticism that
father's rights groups don't support things the author support to be less than
impressive.  Perhaps there is grounds for men's and women's movements to make
agreements to mutually support each other's issues?
                                   
> - Dr. Phyllis Chesler, _The Men's
> Auxiliary: Protecting the Rule of the Fathers_ - pp. 133-140.
> 
> Good book!!

I did not find it so.  IO found the bulk of authors to be responding to what
they wanted to believe that the men's movement is saying, rather than what is
actually being said.
-- 
Daniel B. Holzman                    | Eight Words the Witch's Rede Fufill:
HOLZMAN@FNAL.BITNET                  | An It Harm None, Do What You Will
HOLZMAN@FNALC.FNAL.GOV.INTERNET      |
                                     | All Acts of Love and Pleasure are
Love doesn't subtract,               | Her Rituals
   it multiplies    - Heinlein       |
TEAM STAR Charter Member             | Speak the Word.
Disclaimer:  Fermilab's far too large to have an opinion, let alone mine.


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