From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: glyphosate and spraying
Date: 12 Apr 92 17:33:50 -0500
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

Chris at Ecology Center Fund <ecologycntr@igc.org> writes:
> 
> Kay Klier writes:
>  
> KK>I use glyphosate under 3 or 4 major circumstances.  None of them
> KK>involve pulling weeds.
> KK>
> KK>1) killing obnoxious or noxious woody vegetation that cannot be
> KK> easily   handled.  e.g., poison ivy around latrines or cabins
> KK>in a children's   camp; killing aspen or dogwood clones on
> KK>prairies (where these most   certainly do not belong).      
>  
> This is pretty similar to the situations in which I've used
> Roundup, namely for Poison Oak "Control"( :P) and in the
> eradication of Pampas Grass and Broom of various kinds from
> chaparral areas out here.  I tend to use a bucket full of the
> solution, bending foliage down into the bucket & securing. I
> haven't noticed too much effectiveness in complete control of
> Toxicodendron diversilobum from ANY application of glyphosate, at
> least not with established specimens.  My solution has been to
> attempt to educate folks on the beneficial role P. Oak plays in the
> Coast Ranges ecosystem, reducing the demand for removal services ;)

We generally use a 1 in 4 dilution of the commercial full-strength
Roundup (the stuff that's $60/qt) for PI, and can set it back a
fair amount with one application.  Killing usually takes 2 applications
about a month apart.  Of course, in the upper midwest, we have the
advantage of a long winter, which tends to put a significant dent
in a plant's photosynthetic reserves, and makes it easier to kill.

> KK> 2) killing perennial weeds with a large possibility of
> KK> overwintering or  reestablishing from vegetative fragments left
> KK> behind by pulling. e.g., my research plots of freeze-resistant
> KK> johnson grass after the study wcompleted; killing yellow 
> KK> nutsedge in my mother's lawn (newly introduced).
>  
> You might try eating the tubers(?) rather than spraying: they taste
> pretty good when roasted.

Dig up my ***MOTHER'S*** lawn?  You're braver than I am!!!! ;^)
And my johnsongrass would give you a nice dose of cyanogenic glycosides!

> KK>3) selectively killing introduced species in areas of native
> KK> vegetation e.g., garlic mustard (which is spreading like 
>  
> Is this an Allium?  Haven't heard of it before, at least not by
> that name.

No, it's a crucifer (Brassicaceae).  I'm blocking on the name right
now.  Stinks of garlic.  

> Having worked in nurseries, however, I can attest that this is not
> how most people use the stuff.  Having been assured by the
> nurseryperson that the stuff is "safe", and that it "breaks down
> completely on contact with soil", as two separate ex-employers of
> mine averred, i've seen people pour the stuff full-strength down
> their driveways, hoping to catch two or three weeds growing in
> cracks.  I've seen people spraying the stuff in high winds,
> drenching themselves (and their 45-year-old azaleas) with it.
> (Usually I can get the person to be more careful, if they're male,
> by talking about the tenuous link between Roundup and testicular
> cancer i heard about somewhere.)  Hence my reaction.

Yes, this is a real problem.  Most people don't have the foggiest 
idea of how to use a sprayer correctly, or how much is too much.
I used to demonstrate use of a backpack sprayer in a weeds course,
showing them how to make various adjustments to limit spray drift.
Then we turned them loose with a sprayer full of a dilute flavonoid
solution (colorless in normal light) and let them try to make the 
adjustments.  You were graded on how badly your clothes glowed under
UV when you were done-- and the whole class judged the spray drift.
That seemed to impress the students, and those who chose to try 
again for a better grade almost always did _much_ better...

Kay