HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ttraub@world.std.com (Terry Traub)
Subject: Re: Why do Americans get so little vacation time?
Keywords: work vacation
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 15:37:59 GMT

In article <1346@pacsoft.com> mike@pacsoft.com (Mike Stefanik) writes:
>In an, article ttraub@world.std.com (Terry Traub) writes:
>> How then is it that Americans managed to land people on
>>the moon not once but several times [...]
>
>A rather meaningless act, don't you think?  Yes, there were many beneficial
>by-products of the space race, but it in of itself was a competetion with
>a former superpower for nothing more than "bragging rights".  It was
>a tool of the Cold War, plain and simple.
>
>>[...] by the way, winning two world wars against some of these "smarter"
>>people?
>
>Oh, now *that's* something to be proud of.  Yes, Americans are superior
>manufacturers of weaponry.  We have perfected the fine art of destroying
>members of our own species with a great degree of precision.  Bravo.
>
>What you don't mention is that many of the achievements (both real and
>perceived) that you attribute to the United States were made by "imported
>citizens" from Germany and other nations after WWII.
>
>Perhaps if you would get that flag out of your face you could see things
>a little more clearly (ie: as they are, not as you want them to be.)
>-- 
>Mike Stefanik  mike@pacsoft.com  ...!uunet!pacsoft!mike  (+1 714 681 2623)
>Pacific Software Group, Riverside, CA

OK, I've taken down the flag :-).  But my main point, not clearly
expressed, is that the U.S. is **capable** of great achievements when
its citizens really pull together, as in the moon program.  I don't
think most people thought of that as a superpower struggle; they were
genuinely enthusiastic.  True, it was "imported citizens" who brought
lots of our technological prowess, but on the other hand, almost all
of us or our parents or grandparents are "imported" one way or the
other.

It's a bit odd to call winning a world war nothing more than
perfecting the art of "destroying members of our own species".  There
were others during WWII who did a lot more of that than the U.S. did.
And if you don't think winning WWII was a worthy achievement, my
friend, just imagine a world in which we had LOST.  A very well done
speculative story along these lines is "The Man in the High Castle" by
Philip K.  Dick.


Terry
Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa
From: paulf@w6yx (Paul Flaherty)
Subject: Re: Culture "!=" Politics (and places to visit!)
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 00:12:19 GMT

jkp@cs.HUT.FI (Jyrki Kuoppala) writes:

>Equally well one could demand people keep the Usonian politics/drugs
>issues in their respective, ie. Usonian, newsgroups.  Other countries
>of the world (or Usenet) are not having the same problems, so why
>clutter the net with discussions on Usonian issues?

Seeing as how the net.hierarchy began here in the US, it is by default
"Usonian" (a poor substitute for "American", IMO).  This is demonstrated 
by the fact that most countries have a separate root for their own hierarchy.

>Just to say that there are many viewpoints on each issue.

There are provably infinite views on each issue.  Of course, some viewpoints
are more logically valid than others....

--
-=Paul Flaherty, N9FZX/5W1JX  |"Anyway, nothing can beat Good Old American
->paulf@Stanford.EDU          | Know - How." -- Harry Canyon, _Heavy Metal_
Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.bush,alt.politics.elections,alt.war
From: hooker@aristotle.ils.nwu.edu (Bob Hooker)
Subject: Re: NAFTA (was Re: Bush's position on Bosnia)
Organization: ILS
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 18:29:03 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.234241.23559@oakhill.sps.mot.com>,
pjm@anegada.sps.mot.com (Patrick J. McGuinness) writes:
> 
> 
> NAFTA will be good for all parties concerned.

Northern Telecom,  a Canadian comapny which has many factories in the
United States has closed several recently,  because they can now more
easily do business with the United States from Canada,  while paying
working less.  

My father, a 25 year employee  and middle manager at Norhtern Telecom is
one of several hundred workers who have found themselves without a job,  at
50, without a college degree, and in the middle of an economic down turn
(Economists have made it quite clear that we are not in a Recession),  his
prospects are pretty gray right now. After a life working in one company
under one system,  he finds himself an "unskilled worker". 

But on a less personal note,  perhapes Mr. McGuinness,  between making vast
ungrounded generalization about eveyone concerned with free trade should
atleast look at the cover of this week's Bussiness Week, though those
devine humans who are granted by God eternal valid knowledge rarely feel
the need to search for new information.

There is a possibility that NAFTA will not be good for everyone concerned, 
there is a possibility that NAFTA will increase economic growth while good
paying factory jobs will move to Mexico thus increasing the poverty level, 
there is a possibility that Mexico's government will not be able to protect
it's people from the ecological problems that new factories may cause, it
is likely that the unelected government will not care.  It is likely that
in the long run NAFTA may just mean more profits for companies while not
improving the productivity of workers or the quality of products,  thus
keeping North American companies out of the real growth markets of EC and
Pacific Rim because of poor quality.

Then again it is possible that in the long run NAFTA will produce a
prosperity for North America unmatched in the world.  Perhapes after some
intial re-adjstments all nations envolved will gain.

Mr. McGuinness simple generalizations do not add much to a rational
examination of the issue of free trade.  Perhapes even worse they show an
entire lack of compassion for those peoples lives which will be harmed by
the readjustment due to free trade.  

If Mr. McGuiness denies that there will not be re-adjustment pains due to
free trade then he should take an economics class, clearly many companies
will move, many companies will fail- people will be hurt in the short run
while others are benefited.  

If he thinks that the people who's lives will be effected in a negative way
are of no importance and do not belong in the discussion on free trade,
then he has a sorry lack of compassion which seems to disqualify him for
entry into the discussion as well.

If he understans the short term problems but is speaking in the long term, 
then his statement is unclear.
From: narain@bass.bu.edu (A.V.S. Narain)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa
Subject: test...
Date: 14 Aug 92 00:55:25 GMT
Organization: Boston University College of Engineering


Xref: sparky soc.culture.usa:6745 talk.politics.guns:19792
From: ataylor@nmsu.edu (Nosy)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa,talk.politics.guns
Subject: Arrrgh (Was: Special Interest Groups)
Date: 21 Aug 92 16:42:26 GMT
	<1992Aug20.003240.984@morrow.stanford.edu>
	<16vdi5INN2mi@agate.berkeley.edu>
	<1992Aug20.210159.28958@morrow.stanford.edu>
	<ATAYLOR.92Aug21092849@gauss.nmsu.edu>
Organization: NMSU Computer Science

In article <ATAYLOR.92Aug21092849@gauss.nmsu.edu> ataylor@nmsu.edu (Nosy) writes:
<
<	   Criminals do not wait to buy or steal weapons; why should
<	   the rest of us?


	I hate it when this happens; fingers in motion before
	brain is in gear.

	What I MEANT was:

	"Criminals do not wait to obtain firearms illegally;
	why should the rest of us have to wait to obtain
	them legally".

	SOMEday I really must learn how to cancel a posting......
Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa,talk.politics.misc
From: jkp@cs.HUT.FI (Jyrki Kuoppala)
Subject: [alt.drugs] Re: US corporate drug pushers target Asia
Reply-To: jkp@cs.HUT.FI (Jyrki Kuoppala)
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 04:53:58 GMT

A repost from alt.drugs:

From: gardner@convex.com (Steve Gardner)
Subject: Re: US corporate drug pushers target Asia
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 14:53:35 GMT
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and not necessarily those of CONVEX.

In article <64257@cup.portal.com> patrik@cup.portal.com (Patrick M Crumhorn) writes:

>Vice President Dan Quayle put it rather starkly in 1990: "tobacco exports
>should be expanded aggressively because Americans are smoking less." 
	He's a piece of work that Dan Quayle.  I guess ethics are for
	those dreaded followers of the L-word.	It is really beginning
	to get to me that our "leaders" are so transparently hypocritical
	(e.g. drugs are bad, drugs kill, but exporting drugs is a good thing).
	It makes me so ashamed of my country that it elects such 
	stupid and hypocritical people to high office.  These clowns
	talk "morals" and "values" all the time but have made concern
	for others a bad word.  They have made compassion, sensitivity
	to others and business ethics a sign of weakness and the stigmata 
	of the dread LIBERALISM (TM).  When are people going
	to wise up to these clowns and throw them and their dubious
	morality out of office?  It seems so easy to manipulate public
	opinion in this country with spurious Madison Avenue political 
	campaigns that focus on vacuous concepts (like "family values")
	that are all connotation and no denotation.  They crank up the 
	propaganda machine and the nation of TV addicts jump into line.
	One word from the president and the yellow ribbons go on every mailbox 
	in America.  A campaign slogan or two and the word "liberal" becomes 
	a dirty	word, with connotations similar to "communist".
	They are constantly talking about "Judeo-Christian" values and
	yet one wonders what they mean.  They obviously don't mean
	"turning the other cheek" when it comes to foreign nations that
	offend America nor do they mean the golden rule when it comes to
	pushing drugs on other countries that we discourage at home.
	Just what are these Judeo-Christian values we hear so much about?
	How can someone like Dan Quayle keep a straight face when he
	talks about "values"?  How can so many people be fooled by
	such a facile attempt at being "holier than thou"? 

>Asian health experts say this policy means "a huge epidemic of death will be
>unleashed in the Third World." 
	How un-Uhmuhrican to say that our decent god fearing farmers
	in North Carolina (who elect and re-elect that paragon of
	godly virtue Jesse Helms) are purveyors of death! ;-)  Don't these
	people know that nicotine is not an EVIL DRUG (TM)?  I guess
	those folks haven't been listening to the propaganda machine.
	What's wrong with them?  ;-)

Xref: sparky soc.culture.usa:6557 misc.jobs.misc:5852 misc.emerg-services:3529
From: cote@cs.ucsd.edu (Brad Cote)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa,misc.jobs.misc,misc.emerg-services
Subject: Re: Why do Americans get so little vacation time?
Keywords: work vacation
Date: 13 Aug 92 23:47:25 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.usa

brent@telebit.com (Brent Chapman) writes:


>Another problem with many companies is how they deal with employees who
>are also volunteer emergency services workers.

>I'm a volunteer emergency transport, disaster relief, and search and
>rescue pilot with the Civil Air Patrol.  I'm on call for emergency
>flying missions; 

Hey, I love to fly also (and have a private pilot's licence). But it's
expensive. If you want to donate your time so that you can fly (for
free, staying current, building time for commercial, etc) that is your
business. I see no reason why you should get paid leave to participate
in an organization which brings you a sense of pride and
accomplishment. I'm sure flying beats the hell out of working.

If you worked in the same company as I did, and got paid leave for
'volunteer' fun, I would insist on the same benefits.

>-Brent

				Brad Cote'
				University of California, San Diego
				STARE Project
From: labiche@crchh561.BNR.CA (Maurice LaBiche)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa
Subject: Re: Is this American custom?
Date: 20 Aug 92 16:47:39 GMT
Reply-To: labiche@crchh561.BNR.CA (Maurice LaBiche)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.


In article <1992Aug20.155934.26784@news.acns.nwu.edu>,
qcg@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Qing Guo) writes:
|> 

Stuff Deleted!

|> Now this is my question: Every time when I went to their house, I
noticed that they had opened all doors inside the house: the doors of
his study, of their bedroom, of the two bathrooms, of guest room (where
I stay), of kicthen, etc. Is that the American |> custom for a guest?
Does that mean 'We trust you, so we open all doors to you'? Or is it
just for air ventilation?
|> 
|> Any ideas and comments are welcome.

I rarely close the doors at my house.  The only time I leave doors closed
is when I don't want to heat/cool that part of the house or don't want
someone to look in a room because it needs cleaning.  In general if I 
want someone to look after my house while I'm away I feel I can trust them
and don't mind them entering any room at my house.  However, one should 
understand the difference between looking around the house and searching
through someones private possessions. 

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maurice LaBiche (Mo.L.)         |   labiche@bnr.ca
Bell Northern Research          |   Part of Northern Telecom 
Richardson, Texas               |   i'm really in Texas
------------------------------------------------------------------------
No opinions herein expressed have anything to do with the opinions 
of Bell Northern Research or Northern Telecom or CIA or NSA ...
These statements are mine and mine alone, well i guess my wife 
agrees with some of them?
Xref: sparky soc.culture.usa:6629 talk.politics.misc:40313 alt.politics.bush:1921 alt.politics.elections:10759 alt.war:1806
From: green@plains.NoDak.edu (Brad Green)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.bush,alt.politics.elections,alt.war
Subject: Re: [military] sending troops to the Middle East
Date: 18 Aug 92 04:20:19 GMT
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computing Network

In article <15AUG92.17070813@vax.clarku.edu> htilney@vax.clarku.edu writes:
>I agree that Bush has waited much too long to clarify where he stands on this,
>much less proposing any action. A couple of weeks ago it looked like he was
>finalizing an agenda, but I guess not. His timing was much better IMO during
>the gulf war, but I suppose it is much easier to justify intervention when it
>involves strife between countries as opposed to within a country (militarily
>speaking). 

What Bush did was carefully study the issue.  Slick Willy jumped into it
with both feet, before he found out what was really going on.  Bill's idea
was to call in air strikes, etc, without realizing most of the knowledgable
military leaders advised AGAINST military action.  The former UN head in
the area called military action an impossible task.  Other military leaders
have cautioned that military action could involve half a million troops,
and very high casualties.  In the case of the Gulf, it was well defined, the
terrain was perfect for the action taken, and there was world wide agreement
on the action.  With the Serbs, there is a less clear course to take, and
even though the film we get cries out for action, a clear head requires taking
a more cautious course.

Bill Green
"Friends don't let friends vote liberal."


Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa
From: ault@engin.umich.edu (Matthew Ault)
Subject: Re: North vs. South:  An American Cultural Paradigm?
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 10:17:29 EDT
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor

In article <1992Aug11.214226.6791@leland.Stanford.EDU> paulf@w6yx.Stanford.EDU (Paul Flaherty) writes:
>In every state in which I've resided, there has always been a rivalry or
>series of disputes between those in the Northern Half of the state, and
>those in the South.  In most cases, it seemed to be a question of a heavily
>populated South (Minnesota, Wisconsin, California) versus a largely rural
>North

Add Michigan to this list.  There is smouldering division between
people who live in the southern half of the lower penninsula, which
is heavily populated, and those who live in northern lower mich. and
the UP, which is more sparsely populated.  It's mostly based on the fact
that the southern regions have a large industrial base and the northern
regions don't have much industry at all, but *lots* of natural resources
and attractive scenery.  Thus, many northerners find that many southerners
veiw the north as "Michiagn's playground".  Which isn't necessarily bad as
one of the major sources of income for the north is tourism.

There has been a drive on for some time among some UP residents proposing
that the UP become it's own state.  Though they'll be selling snowshoes in
hell before that ever happens.

-matt



-- 
|-------------------------| Sanity is maintained only by healthy and        |
|Matthew A. Ault          |   regular promenades around its border.         |
|ault@caen.engin.umich.edu|     - from _The Complete Wilderness Paddler_    |
|-------------------------|         by J.W. Davidson & J. Rugge             |
From: partha@mse.ogi.edu (R. Parthasarathy)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa
Subject: EAST INDIAN FOOD FAIR AT BEAVERTON
Date: 12 Aug 92 20:09:28 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.41248
Distribution: pnw
Organization: Oregon Graduate Institute, Material Science & Engineering



			INDIA FOOD BAZAAR

	Date: August 15th, Saturday

	Venue: Oregon Graduate Inst.

	Time: 3PM to 8PM

	Free Admission

	Come and taste a variety of Indian food items!

	Direction: Take US 26 West
		   Take the Exit at 185th Ave. Turn Left
		   Take Right at SW Walker Road	
		   Take Left at Compton Dr (Walker Rd. Ends there)
		   OGI is on the left hand side. 
		   Reach the Quadrangle where the Food fair is held. 	
Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa,sci.environment,soc.culture.esperanto
From: Bruce.Scott@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Bruce Scott)
Subject: Re: [bags] Re: Plastic or Paper...which is environmentally suitable?
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 15:35:45 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.174949.4318@efi.com> dchung@efi.com (Daniel Chung) writes:
>
>     Any European or Asian or African or Oceanian or South American opinion?

In Germany the movement seems to be toward cloth, although heavy plastic
is also used because it is cheaper (you have to pay for bags here,
doesn't faze most people since they're so cheap, but the cloth ones can
be DM 2,50). I use a cloth bag which I have owned for 4 years. The grab
handle part is only now beginning to fray. But of course I go through a
lot of the thin fruit/vegetable bags since I use them for garbage bags.
It is testament to our command over oil that the plastic bags will
always win when decisions are made because of cost.

Gruss,
Dr Bruce Scott                             The deadliest bullshit is
Max-Planck-Institut fuer Plasmaphysik       odorless and transparent
bds at spl6n1.aug.ipp-garching.mpg.de                 -- W Gibson

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa
From: silva@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Holly Silva)
Subject: Special Interest Groups was (Re: Defined: National Police Force)
Organization: Stanford Univ. Earth Sciences
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 00:32:40 GMT

In article <92232.36958.J056600@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM> J056600@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM writes:
>In <cl0nbzqh@cck.coventry.ac.uk>, csi056@cch.coventry.ac.uk writes:
>>In article <1992Aug17.225312.4046@igor.tamri.com> donb@igor.tamri.com (Don Bald
>>>Guns have several purposes:  they enable you to protect yourself from
>>>deadly danger
>>>....
>>>Surely, life is not now so safe and secure that we don't need to defend
>>>ourselves!
>>>
>>But if there were less guns in circulation then wouldn't there be less risk
>>of "deadly danger"?
>
>That's the logic error that the Anti-Bill of Rights people often use.  Without
				^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
	After an opening line like this, it's difficult to take you 
seriously as an exponent of logical argument in regards to gun control. 
Right or wrong, shrewd or foolish, you've clearly staked out a position
on the far Libertarian/Right side of the argument. The weak, strawman
argument you constructed above with the help of many ellipses is only
the most limited, simple-minded portrayal of the issues addressed by the
other side.
	Would the zealots on both sides of the gun control 'discussion' 
please consider making use of the newsgroups created specifically to address 
this issue, namely talk.politics.guns and talk.politics.misc?

>So, from a pragmatic point of view, let alone a Constitutional one, banning or
>severely weakening the Second Amendment would be a big mistake.
>

	And from a pragmatic point of view could we get back to the more
general aspects of US culture, for which this newsgroup was specifically
created? Unless of course, you would like to see s.c.usa flooded with 
mouth-foamings from abortion activists, animal-rights activists and
activists-of-all-emotionally-charged-pseudo-issues-that-people-fixate-on
in-lieu-of-getting-a-life. If the fine points and sophistry of the gun
control arguments belong here, then all the other rot does too. (NOT).



--
======================================================================
|| Holly Silva			I have nothing terribly clever to say||
|| Applied Earth Sciences	today.  You're in luck.		     ||
|| Stanford University						     ||
Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa,talk.politics.guns
From: ataylor@nmsu.edu (Nosy)
Subject: Re: Special Interest Groups was (Re: Defined: National Police Force)
Organization: NMSU Computer Science
	<1992Aug20.003240.984@morrow.stanford.edu>
	<16vdi5INN2mi@agate.berkeley.edu>
	<1992Aug20.210159.28958@morrow.stanford.edu>
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 16:28:49 GMT

<<In article <1992Aug20.210159.28958@morrow.stanford.edu> silva@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Holly Silva) writes:

<	   The second ammendment has a great deal to do with American 
<   culture and articles such as those posted by Mr. Fraser or Ms. Blais
<   are a joy to read -- informative, thoughtful, hard-hitting.
<	   In recent years unfortunately it also seems as though putting
<   up with the lunatic fringe on every issue has become a central, standard
<   part of American culture. Goddamn if I will. The NRA-survivalist-minded
<   extremist and their PC-mushy-'liberal' opponents deserve censure. Both
<   of them. It's the NRA types who'd like us to believe that a waiting 
<   period before purchasing a hand-gun would lead to the Kristin Blais's
<   of the country being unable to defend themselves from would-be rapists.
 
	Given that women in Kalifornia have been killed while
	waiting for the state to allow them to purchase a firearm
	for self defense (Kal. has fortnight waiting period), the
	NRA can cite actual incidents in support of this statement.

HINT: a restraining order isn't much of a defense against a 
      knife.

	Criminals do not wait to buy or steal weapons; why should
	the rest of us?
Xref: sparky soc.culture.usa:6524 soc.culture.canada:5671