HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: riordanm@cs.tcd.ie (Mark Riordan)
Subject: Scottish Newsgroup
Organization: Trinity College, Dublin (Computer Science)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 13:22:45 GMT

In article <BvByEC.9Jt@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk> newt@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Michael Steven Newton) writes:
>ag129@cus.cam.ac.uk (Alasdair Grant) writes:
>
>>Let's have a Scottish group, and keep Celtic racialism out of it.
>>I mean, I don't even know whether I'm 0% or 100% Celtic, and I don't care!
>>--
>>Alasdair Grant
>
>Being Celtic is *not* a racial priviledge, it is a cultural and linguistic
>milieau, and a matter of degree.  And if you don't care, you don't
>count.

Initially I thought I seperate Newsgroup for Scotland would be
fine. I would just read both. Then I thought well after a week of 
uninteresting articles on a topic important to Scotland but of
no interest to me I would probably unsubscribe.

I think the pictish, scottish, celtic, irish, rangers, celtic, soccor,
linguistics etc diversity is great I have learned a lot. I don't mind
the odd article of no interest when I find one which I would not
normally have read but I find of great interest.

Personally I am for maintenance of the net-union. I am a
net-unionist I suppose. :-)

MARK
-- 
--
| riordanm@cs.tcd.ie	Mark Riordan, MIPS Project		|
|			Computer Science Dept. Trinity College	|
| 			Dublin 2, Ireland			|
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: dmcnamar@netcom.com (Dennis McManara)
Subject: Breton Music and DAnce?
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 03:36:21 GMT

A while ago, I was listening to Thistle and Shamrock while working on
the computer. I heard a song that I think Fionna Ritchey described as
a Breton Dance tune. It had a fast 8 count to the bar, grouped:
1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 
If this is truly dance music, I would love to hear more of it, and
learn how to do this dance. (My wife and I do Irish figure, set, and
ceili dancing. )
  Can anybody out there help? Thanks.

-- 
Dennis McNamara dmcnamar@netcom.com
Purveyor of Fine Software: Composer's WorkBench

Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: librik@cory.Berkeley.EDU (David Librik)
Subject: Re: European superiority
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 20:41:05 GMT

walker@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Graham Walker, 227 West Old Main,268-3847,) writes:

>From article <23282@optima.cs.arizona.edu>, by gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary L. Newell):
>> 
>> Now I have to go and finish my Pepsi before the rerun of Married with
>> Children comes on and then I need to wax my new Dodge Grand Caravan that I
>> got at 7% interest and no money down but then again the microwave oven needs
>> cleaning and all three of my color TV's could use a wipe or two.... ah hell...> I'll wait until tomorrow after I've played with the Mac II and listened to
>> the CD player for awhile.... and to think I'm only a student..... if only I
>> had time to learn the Zen-like teachings of Europeans.....
>> 
>> 			gln
>> 

>This rather sick flaunting of you "wealth" would be greatly appreciated
>by the very poor families up in Northern NY state, Alabama, Missippi,
>etc.... 

It is incredible that, in a group that claims to discuss cultures of
the British Isles -- the home of offhanded sarcasm, piss-taking, and
black humor -- that no one seems to have noticed that Gary Newell is
joking.  Posing.  Kidding.

It's been funny watching all these wide-eyed, indignant Earnest Americans
recoil in shock, though.  Didn't any of you notice the title of the
original article, "ugly American post of the year?"

- David Librik
(who can't believe he has to explain the above)
librik@cory.Berkeley.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: My Ugly American post for the year....
From: Henry Corcoran <CORCORAN@NDSUVM1.BITNET>
Date: Friday, 2 Oct 1992 15:26:34 CDT
 <1992Oct2.084533.12635@dcs.qmw.ac.uk><23239@optima.cs.arizona.edu>
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computer Network

Actually for me, this thread has a relevance to Celtic  culture; I find myself
paying attention to the soccer scores. :^)
From: gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary L. Newell)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: European superiority
Date: 5 Oct 92 16:42:09 GMT
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson

In article <1992Oct5.164343.6521@news.clarkson.edu>, walker@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Graham Walker, 227 West Old Main,268-3847,) writes:
> From article <23323@optima.cs.arizona.edu>, by gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary L. Newell):
> >  I'm not sure what you are trying to say here - if I read this correctly you
> > seem to be implying that US-bashing is OK, but defending those attacks is
> > not appropriate - is that right? So, someone from the UK can accuse the US
> > of being responsible for the state of Celtic culture today but an American
> > cannot respond to those charges? 
> No. No. No. No. Lets try again. I am only saying that topics that
> "appear" not to be of "celtic" interest are of celtic interest if
> someone from the countries mentioned above, or others who are interested
> in "celtic culture" feels that the need to discuss them. My point was
> about discussion itself rather than on any particular topic or stand.

Oh - sorry - I agree with you then. I'm afraid I misread your intent. It
seems to me that the argument of whether or not the US is responsible for
an "americanization" of Europe is certainly appropriate for this group
where the state of Celtic culture is discussed.



				gln
From: cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Chris Cooke)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: American Bashing
Date: 28 Sep 92 14:08:18 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Edinburgh, Scotland
In-reply-to: morna@dcs.ed.ac.uk's message of 28 Sep 92 13:05:30 GMT

In article <44998@skye.dcs.ed.ac.uk> morna@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Morna J Findlay) writes:

[ lots deleted ]

   People who "love their countries" don't tend to be terribly attached
   to the black populations of those countries for example.

   In the case of those dreadful Siol nan Gaidheal stickers I saw last week
   in Edinburgh, "loving Scotland" to them probably means booting out the
   "English White Settlers". This of course has it's appeal ( :-))but I
   expect they'd soon be after the Black settlers too. 

   So, I am not a member of the Scottish National Party and never will be,
   despite hoping for Scottish Independcance in the not too distant future.

Sure, but I don't see what the SNP has to do with all this.  You might as
well say, "I don't want to see black people hanging by their necks from
lamposts, so I'm not a member of the Scottish Conservative Party".  Siol nan
Gaidheal sound like an extremely nasty lunatic fringe, nothing to do with the
SNP.
--
	-- Chris. 	cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk   (on Janet, cc@uk.ac.ed.dcs)
From: mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: American Bashing
Date: 28 Sep 92 10:05:32 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept, QMW, University of London, UK.

From: downey@enh.nist.gov
>Well Mathhew, to use one of your favorite themes, don't believe
>everything you see, hear, or read, because American culture is
>oftentimes outrageously romanticized.  The glitz and glitter of
>American produced programs and movies is not a true reflection
>of American culture.

Yes, this romanticisation, glitz and glitter, is one of the
things to which I object. It's like having too much sugar in
your food, once you get used to it you lose your taste for
anything subtle, and just demand more of the same. Junk food,
junk culture: bad driving out good.

>Mathhew, even if all 50,000 members were in the U.S., you have
>to realize that is only .0002% of the population.

I mentioned this group only because I happened to have the
magazine with me at the time and for once I was able to quote
something with an actual reference. However American
Fundamentalism is split into hundred if not thousands of such
groups, each with similar outlandish beliefs. This was just one
of them.

>undesirables, just as any other country.  Thank goodness we still
>have enough informed voting Americans that recognize such people
>as Pat Robertson, David Duke, and Pat Buchanan are dangerous.
>It certainly scares me to see these men get even one supporter.
>However, while they might have made bids for higher public offices,
>they did not succeed.

As someone else pointed out (which I already knew - such things
do get covered in the British media) extreme Fundamentalists of
the Pat Robertson sort are now very influential in one of the
USA's two major political parties. We are not talking about a
fringe influence here, and yes, many of us in Europe do find it
scary, and it tends to push us into anti-Americanism.

>As an American, it is difficult for me to understand why anyone
>would be embarassed about nationalism.

As a European it is not.

Matthew Huntbach
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: spain@galvia.enet.dec.com ()
Subject: RE: Nationalism - or Why do people have flags in their gardens?
Reply-To: spain@galvia.enet.dec.com ()
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 20:02:07 GMT

--

In article <2OCT92.20305349@skyfox.usask.ca>, misra@skyfox.usask.ca writes:

|>Considering that the raison d'etre of the Orange Order is sectarian, I 
|>sincerely doubt Gary's assertion that southern Orangemen don't sing sectarian
|>songs. I wonder if Gary's ever read the charter of the Orange Order? It exists
|>solely to re-establish a protestant hegemony over "papists". It is a purely
|>sectarian organization (don't believe me? try joining). For someone who has 
|>repeatedly pilloried the GAA as being sectarian, it surprises me to hear
|>Gary Spain portray Orangemen as some sort of benevolent cultural group.

You are totally misrepresenting my position.  I have often criticised the Orange Order as being sectarian.  Many of the marches in Belfast as a disgrace.
In fact if you read my description of the Royal Black Institute I described
them as a better class of bigot.  Can you please shoiw my examples to
back up your assertion.

I have never seen a Southern Orange march except on television.  The impression
given is that they are more an expression of protestantism then sectarianism.
There isn't the same triumphalism in these marches that exists in Northern 
Ireland.  Indeed many local RCs come out to watch the parade.  Most local
RCs get out of Northern Ireland during the 12th.

       Gary Spain, DEC, Galway, Ireland   - spain@galvia.enet.dec.com

  On being a football fan: "I am aware of the downside to this wonderful 
  facility that men have: they become repressed, they fail in their 
  relationships with women,their conversation is trivial and boorish, they 
  find themselves unable to express their emotional needs, they cannot relate
  to their children, and die lonely and miserable. But you know, what the hell?"
								   Nick Hornby 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: cockburn@edieng.enet.dec.com (Craig Cockburn)
Subject: Re: Scottish Newsgroup
Organization: Digital Equipment Co. Ltd., Reading, England
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 08:05:45 GMT


In article <1992Oct3.232158.7877@philmtl.philips.ca>, ray@philmtl.philips.ca (Ray Dunn) writes...
> 
>Rather than me make some up.  maybe Craig would like to post some of the
>topics under discussion in his local Digital group to show what is
>appropriate in a Scottish forum but not in the general celtic one.
>-- 
Here's a few ideas to get you started:

Accomodation
Items wanted
Job vacancies
Pros and cons of living in Scotland
Info on areas: ie Glasgow, Edinburgh, Aberdeen, Borders etc
Info on Castles, Historic houses etc
Whisky
Travel questions
Haggis
Skiing
Walking
Hogmany
Poetry
Devolution/Home Rule etc
Irn Bru
Loch Ness Monster
Arranging lift sharing between south of England and Scotland
Scottish jokes
Burns night
Scots language info, books, societies
Gaelic language info, books, societies
Kilts and tartans info
Traditional music
Forthcoming concerts
Rugby
Scottish books
Weather
Traditional songs
Bagpipes
Fishing
Highland Games
Forthcoming events 
Patriotism and what it means
Ravenscraig
The Housing market
Beer, pubs and breweries
Football
The environment
The Broons
Current news items
History quizes
Ceilidhs
Distilleries - visit reports
what's on the telly/radio
Historical links to the vikings
David Icke + Arran!
Getting Married at Gretna Green
White Settlers
Bird watching
theatre
Legends
Scottish cooking
Shinty

etc

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Craig Cockburn, Digital Equipment Co. Ltd, Reading, England.     Suas
  Internet: cockburn@edieng.enet.dec.com                           leis
  UUCP:..!decwrl!edieng.enet.dec.com!cockburn                      a'
                                                                   Gha\idhlig!
  Views here are my own, and are not necessarily those of Digital
From: dam@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (David Morning)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Nationalism - or Why do people have flags in their gardens?
Date: 6 Oct 92 10:42:24 GMT
Organization: Glasgow University Computing Science Dept.

halpin@vax.oxford.ac.uk writes:


>dam@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (David Morning) rebuts:
>> ulick@gershwin.helios.nd.edu (Ulick Stafford) who slags off Gary spain:

>> are Americans, your creating a straw man Ullick. It's football in just about
>> every European country as well as South American countries.


>To be fair to Ulick (why, when he isn't being fair to Gary?), this
>isn't quite correct. 

You're missing the point. Ulick is complaining of Gary using the term
"football" instead of what he believes is the correct term 'soccer'

Football is almost (though not entirely) universal term in *many* countries
to mean what Ulick refers to as 'soccer'. In German it's 'fusbal', in French
it's 'futbal' and so on. Virtually every nation (with the exception of the US
and Austrailia perhaps) use some derivative of the word 'football' for 'soccer'.

Ulick would have us believe that it's some sort of English conspiracy and
anyone using the term, in particular Gary, is displaying a leaning towards
the English crown and that the PC phrase is 'soccer'!!

Now it's time for the liguistic pedants to flame my French and German.


Dave

--
From: RBYAML@rohvm1.rohmhaas.com (Aengus Lawlor)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Americans! *smile*
Date: 29 Sep 92 14:21:04 GMT
 tanford.edu><1992Sep28.101050.11573@dcs.qmw.ac.uk> <22577@galaxy.ucr.edu>
Organization: Rohm and Haas Company

In article <22577@galaxy.ucr.edu>, starbuck@ucrmath.ucr.edu (starbuck) says:
>
>In article <1992Sep28.101050.11573@dcs.qmw.ac.uk> mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew
>Huntbach) writes:
>
>-No it is not. It is rooted in the fact that we have seen how
>-nationalism has contributed to wars, death, imperialistic
>-conquest, suppression of minorities, racism and many other evils.
>-Nationalism of the sort which Americans find natural and
>-unexceptional is in Europe regarded as the height of bad
>-manners, boorish and dangerous.
>-
>-Matthew Huntbach
>
>It might be of benifit to you to read some European history.  I would start
>with the histroy of Britian in India, then perhaps the history of Germany.
>If you want examples of racism, suppression of minorities, mperialistic
>conquest, war, and many other evils you'll find them all in your own history.
It might be of benefit to you to read the posts in this group. It's precisely
because of the history you cite that many Europeans recognize the dangers of
rampant nationalism, dangers that seem difficult for some americans to
discern.

Aengus
>
>starbuck
--
RBYAML@ROHMHAAS.COM                    Aengus Lawlor
RBYAML@ROHVM1.BITNET                   (who used to be ALAWLOR@DIT.IE)
"How about some of that famous Dublin wit, Barman?"
"Certainly, sir. Would that be Dry or Sparkling?"
From: fitch@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Graduation- AAAARGH!!!!)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: GPA - what does it stand for?
Date: 27 Sep 92 21:56:45 GMT
Distribution: soc
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523

Grade Point Average?  (Heh, heh)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: ray@philmtl.philips.ca (Ray Dunn)
Subject: Now for something completely different (was Re: American Bashing)
Organization: On the Brew.
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 15:03:07 GMT

In referenced article, irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Brent Irvine) writes:
>-- 
>Brent L. Irvine              "Dyslexics of the World
>irvine@decwa.ece.uiuc.edu    UNTIE!"		- Kral Maxr

You've heard of the dyslexic agnostic, I suppose?

Couldn't sleep at night for worrying about whether his dog really existed.

(I suppose PC would define this to be bad taste,  ... ah weel!)
-- 
Ray Dunn at home  |  Beaconsfield,  Quebec,  Canada.
(514) 630 3749    |  ray@philmtl.philips.ca  or  ..uunet!sobeco!philmtl!ray
From: byardd@ul.ie
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: <None>
Date: 6 Oct 92 13:31:31 GMT
Organization: University of Limerick, Ireland

Since in has been established by Jimmy Swaggary (?) or
etc from Alabama or some other armpit or the universe
that the 12, sorry 10, star flag of the EC represents
the 10 headed beast of the apocolipe the LOGICAL conclusion
is that the Maastricht treaty is "the devils script".
But what does that make us Irish, the only Europeans
to vote substantially (69%
to vote substantially (69%) in favour of this evil 
plot ???   I guess this must make us "the devils span"
or something like that.  Any views from Gary Newall ??
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: syswtr@iowasp.physics.uiowa.edu
Subject: Re: Kilt availability.
Organization: Department of Physics and Astronomy, University of Iowa
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 17:39:55 GMT

In article <1992Oct5.031646.9967@reed.edu>, odlin@reed.edu (Iain Odlin) writes:
>   *grin*  You haven't lived 'til you've heard a pipe band do Van Halen's
>   "Jump."  I nearly bust a gut laughing.
> 
>   Then there's my Father doing the first measure to "Swanee River" and the
>   various Monty Python songs from "The Meaning of Life"... Who says the pipes
>   aren't versatile?  :)
> 
>   Just don't drill 'em out and turn 'em into dog-whistles, please...
> -- 
>  --------------------------------- Iain Odlin ---------------------------------
>                   10 Crosby Street, Level 3, Portland ME 04103
>                                  odlin@reed.edu
>  ---------------------------- REUNITE GONDWANALAND ----------------------------

  Tired of buying a new chanter every few years? :-)

Willy
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: emcmanus@kaa.gr.osf.org (Eamonn McManus)
Subject: Re: [SOC] ABOUT THE BEATING DEATH OF MR. LUYEN PHAN NGUYEN
Organization: Open Software Foundation Research Institute, Grenoble
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 14:02:22 GMT

ulick@rodin.helios.nd.edu (Ulick Stafford) writes:
>Short comments may be
>acceptable, but when I see 3% at the bottom of the screen, I get really
>pissed off.

I don't know why.  It is just as easy to skip a long article as a
short one.

,
Eamonn
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: arpowell@nyx.cs.du.edu (Aimee Powell)
Subject: Re: Seamus Heaney
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 18:50:33 GMT



Actually, Heaney lives in Sandymount, and I am sure that it would get
delivered if you sent to him there:  Seamus Heaney, Sandymount, Dublin 4,
Ireland. 

Aimee
From: cockburn@edieng.enet.dec.com (Craig Cockburn)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: survival of Celtic languages
Date: 4 Oct 92 16:44:51 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Co. Ltd., Reading, England


In article <1992Oct4.092009.9011@hippo.ru.ac.za>, piij@hippo.ru.ac.za (Mr ID Jennings) writes...
>A few questions, hopefully not too naive:
> 
>What proportion of Irish, Scottish, Welsh and Breton people speak the
>Celtic languages that originate in those places?
> 
You left off Manx and Cornish!

For Scotland, the proportion is 1.72%, however this is set to increase
as there is a very strong revival of the language, particularly amongst
the playgroup age and young adults. It is planned to increase the number
of speakers by 50% in 10 years. A tall order!

>ineffective.  What steps are being taken to ensure the survival of these
>languages as a going concern and how successful have they been?

Gaidhlig medium playgroups have been very sucessful and have lead to
a demand for Gaidhlig medium primary schools as the children work their
way through the educational systems. The Gaelic playgroups movement
is now 10 years old, and there are approx 100 of them in Scotland.

The figures for the Isle of Man and Manx (from the 1991 census) are:
643 on the island can speak the language with some degree of fluency,
343 can write it, and 479 can read it. 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Craig Cockburn, Digital Equipment Co. Ltd, Reading, England.     Suas
  Internet: cockburn@edieng.enet.dec.com                           leis
  UUCP:..!decwrl!edieng.enet.dec.com!cockburn                      a'
                                                                   Gha\idhlig!
  Views here are my own, and are not necessarily those of Digital
From: mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: American Bashing
Date: 28 Sep 92 13:36:01 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept, QMW, University of London, UK.

From: cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Chris Cooke)
>Patriotism in Western Europe used to be associated with Empires and
>consequently with murder, rape, looting in the third world.  People don't
>like that sort of thing any more, so they often feel embarrassed to be overly
>patriotic about their country.

It is also associated, in a way which the patriotic
expressions from the USA we have heard here have not been,
with such things as race, religion and language, and thus
unlike USA patriotism seems to deliberately exclude recent
immigrants.

Matthew Huntbach
From: shazam@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: re: This is *not* soc.culture.american
Date: 29 Sep 92 18:15:14 GMT
Organization: Carnegie Mellon Computer Club

I agree with Suzanne (Suze) in that this group is not the place
to continue he conversations dealing with America (USA), nor the
defense some of us have felt we had to take for her.  I have refrained
from commenting anymore, because I was asked not to.  And they were
right.  This is NOT the place.

*smile*  So...has anyone found anymore info on the Black Irish?
I appreciate all of the info that has been directed my way.
All of your letters were very sweet, and i have met some very nice
people from just one question.

Also, is there anyone here who is particularly interested in
the dogs of Ireland?  Like the Kerry Blue, Soft-coated Wheaten
Terrier, the Irish Terrier and the Black and Tan Terrier?
I am looking into the history...and again, I read the Kerry
Blue came from Spain during the Spanish Armada.  The Kerry Blue
and the Irish, along with a little Black and Tan brought 
about the Wheaten I have read.

Anyone know anything about this?  *smile*  Thanks!

Suzanne
From: sharkey@robots.ox.ac.uk (Paul Sharkey)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Football (was Re: Nationalism - or Why ... )
Date: 6 Oct 92 13:39:31 GMT
Organization: Robotics Research Group, Engineering Science Dept, Oxford, UK.
Originator: sharkey@othello.robots

To call American Football just that seems to me to be an incredidibly
stupid thing to do considering that there is less contact between the
foot and the ball in that game that in just about any other "football"
I know of. 

There's even less contact than rugby. Going by the amount of actual
footballing, then "soccer" beats all, following closely by GAA/Aussie
Rules.

I think AF should be renamed "Rugby for Wimps Who Don't Really Like
Getting Hurt Too Much, Thank You All THe Same".  Snappy name, eh? ;-)

Paul.