HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: lputnam@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Lee P Putnam)
Subject: Re: What font do you write/type in?
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 17:10:40 GMT

In article <1992Jul27.160453.22807@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> gburton@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Garland O Burton) writes:
>
>If writing is to be submitted to a publisher, it should look like it 
>came off of a typewriter.  Double-spaced.  Period.
>
>Anything fancy screams "ROOKIE."
>
>That's what I've heard.

Well, my inital posting was an example of bad writing and thus it didn't
make much sense. I'll try this again...

There have been numerous postings in this group about the correct format
that one should use when SUBMITTING a peice of writing. I was wondering
though what font/style people use in WRITING. For example, when I write on
this mac, I tend to write with Hel. 9pt single spacing. But when I
finish I "puff" it up by changing font, size, etc. I think I got into this
habit of using a small font because I have to use a computer at the labs here
and I never liked people peering over at my screen and reading my text. Thus
I reduced the size making it hard for people to read my words. Now I'm used
to that font/size and any attempt at writing at a bigger size feels strange.

Sorry if my posting sounded like a reply to the earlier font-submission
posts. I was trying to ask people something new. Oh well. 

 -lee
From: eoghanni@castle.ed.ac.uk (Eoghann Irving)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: Point of view (was Genre)
Date: 21 Jul 92 13:55:24 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

In article <1992Jul21.115016.12904@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> bf455@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Bonita Kale) writes:
>References: <1992Jul20.174401.8505@thinkage.on.ca> <1992Jul16.132209.1@lure.latrobe.edu.au> <1992Jul16.215823.8337@nwnexus.WA.COM> <23867@castle.ed.ac.uk>
>In a previous article, jim@thinkage.on.ca (James Alan Gardner) says:

>>As for the question of whether men have trouble with female
>>viewpoint characters or vice versa...I think people can accept
>>any viewpoint character until the character deviates strongly
>>from their own "world".

>I don't think the situation is symmetrical for men and women.  I think
>women have an easier time identifying with men than vice versa, since we
>live in a world in which "male" tends to equate with "human".

	Now I can only speak for myself, but even although I would
assume a male viewpoint, I have no trouble identifying with a female one
(at least I haven't so far). I think most of the other people who said
that they would assume a male viewpoint said the same thing too.

>Indeed, those men who assume male viewpoint may find themselves soon
>outnumbered by the kids growing up, who are used to female viewpoint.  They
>used to say boys wouldn't read books with a girl main character, but more
>and more boys seem to be reading _A Wrinkle In Time_ and other female POV books.

	Hmm, this raises the question, do I assume a male viewpoint
because I am male, or because it is more common for stories to be
written from a male viewpoint?
	I am pretty sure that I do it beacsue I am male, I make very few
assumptions about a story before I have read it. However, my reasons
alone don't really say very much. So, do women assume a male viewpoint
as well, or not? Perhaps we could have a poll of some sort.


-- 
|------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|	        NEW SUPER SIXYWICKS, ITS SO GOOD WE ATE THE BABY               |
|  all text or parts thereof withinin this box are TM of Eoghann Irving 1992   |
|------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: suzanne@mailhub.scf.lmsc.lockheed.com (Suzanne Barrett)
Subject: Re: taboo subjects?
Organization: Lockheed Santa Cruz, CA.
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 19:04:49 GMT

In article <24925@dog.ee.lbl.gov> jtchew@csa3.lbl.gov (JOSEPH T CHEW) writes:

>>My agent's response was extremely, EXTREMELY negative.  To quote him,
>>"One doesn't write romance novels involving crippled heroines."  

>Interesting.  Arthur Hailey's novel "Overload," published in the late 
>70s, had a quadraplegic love interest for our hero.  One may argue how
>romantic it really was -- in between the descriptions of facilities and
>processes (Hailey must be a closet technical writer) our hero cuts a
>swath through California, porking everything that will hold still -- but
>it got published.

>If you still think it's a good manuscript, you might want to try again.
>Times may have changed, even in the bodice-ripping industry.

>Joe "Back to my viewgraphs" Chew

But Joe, Hailey's novel was/is mainstream.  Anything goes in mainstream.  
The romance genre (and PLEASE--not bodice rippers.  I hope we've 
progressed beyond that) has certain criteria such as heroines who are NOT 
promiscuous, no gratuitous sex, no alcoholism, and the character must grow 
by overcoming seemingly insurmountable obstacles.  Basically, it's a short 
read--escapist literature, with a happy ending.  Egad.  Life is too real; 
I want a fantasy with a larger-than-life hero and a heroine with whom I 
can view the fictive world.  I replied to this note by private eMAIL, but 
suggested a couple of publishing houses she might submit to.  It is 
possible to have disabled protagonists, even in romance.
Suzanne (writing romance and loving it)   
-----
suzanne@mailhub.scf.lmsc.lockheed.com
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: johnh@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (John J Humpal)
Subject: Re: screenwriters
Organization: HAC - Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 16:14:30 GMT

In article <57680016@hpscit.sc.hp.com> fish@hpscit.sc.hp.com (John Fisher) writes:
>
> [...]
>If you're working on a screenplay, John,
>you're a screenwriter.  You may or may not have sold one (I haven't),
>but that's merely one measure of how successful a screenwriter you might
>be.  You're still a screenwriter.
>
	You've got a point.  I also write short fiction and, although I
haven't yet sold any of that, I consider myself a fiction writer.  Ditto
for drama.  Actually, I backed into screenwriting as I was working on
a one-act play, so I guess I never really developed the sense of being
a screenwriter.

-- 
-John

John J. Humpal -- johnh@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu -- short .sig, std. disclaimer
From: charlie@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (Charlie J Church)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: Character Names
Date: 31 Jul 92 20:22:46 GMT
Organization: Engineering Computer Network, University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK, USA

In article <Bs7x3q.KL5@unx.sas.com> sasafw@dobo.unx.sas.com (Fred Welden) writes:
>
>In article <l7ga0tINN4vp@cronkite>, willo@youcon.Central.Sun.COM (Doug Willoughby  Area SE  - Midwest Area ) writes:
>|I'm in the process of writing a story about a character who is of
>|Belgian decent. I'm having a little trouble deciding on a surname
>|that sounds ethic enough for this fellow. Any suggestions?
>|
>|Which brings to mind a more generic question, (along the same lines as
>|the recent thread about research for fiction) how does one determine
>|the origin of a surname? It would be a glaring error to give a Spanish
>|character an English surname, but subtle errors are possible and equally
>|annoying. Can someone recommend a reference on the subject?
>
>Like naming the Spanish governor of the colony of Louisiana 
>Alejandro "Bloody" O'Reilly, for example?  Face it, as far as
>countries west of somewhere around Beirut and east of Hawaii go,
>practically anybody can have practically any surname, and could have
>for a couple of centuries now.  I think a Chinese or Lebanese named 
>O'Reilly might be a little farfetched, but I am willing to stand 
>corrected.
>
>But what you want is a source of names that won't raise any eyebrows.
>Check out the baby name books you can find at your local bookstore--
>lots of the names listed are also surnames, and several of these 
>books will tell you that and tell you what their language of origin
>is.  You could also look at a map of Belgium and pick the name of
>an obscure small town for your character's surname, especially if he
>is an American of Belgian descent, rather than a Belgian in Belgium.
>
>[Actually, it occurs to me that Belgian names present a somewhat
>special problem--there are two distinct ethnic groups in Belgium, the
>Flemish and the Walloons (sp?)  They speak different languages,
>probably have different kinds of surnames, usually practice different
>religions.  Have you figured out yet which kind of Belgian your
>character is descended from?]
>-- 
>--Fred, or another blind 8th-century BC  |  sasafw@dobo.unx.sas.com
>        Hellenic poet of the same name.  |

A year or so ago, I bought at Walton or Daltons, a Dictionary of 
Common American Family Names.   I find it very useful as it has 
a listing of the origin of the name and its meaning.  Sorry can't 
supply publisher or other data.  

C. Church
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: daveg@ee.ubc.ca (Dave Gagne)
Subject: Re: Bad Places to have Good Ideas
Organization: University of BC, Electrical Engineering
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 17:04:03 GMT

In article <mtan-240792091446@maureen.cen.uiuc.edu> mtan@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Maureen Tan) writes:
>> (Dave Gagne) writes about about Bad Places to have Good Ideas.
>
> > Whaddaya think, am I nuts?
>
>Absolutely, Dave.

Whew, I was worried there for a bit.

-- 
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|  Dave Gagne.              | UBC VLSI Lab                                  |
|  daveg@ee.ubc.ca          | University of British Columbia, Vancouver, BC |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: rivk@quads.uchicago.edu (nora gayle rivkis)
Subject: Re: Character Names
Reply-To: rivk@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 21:06:26 GMT

In article <Bs7x3q.KL5@unx.sas.com> sasafw@dobo.unx.sas.com (Fred Welden) writes:

>Like naming the Spanish governor of the colony of Louisiana 
>Alejandro "Bloody" O'Reilly, for example?  Face it, as far as
>countries west of somewhere around Beirut and east of Hawaii go,
>practically anybody can have practically any surname, and could have
>for a couple of centuries now.  I think a Chinese or Lebanese named 
>O'Reilly might be a little farfetched, but I am willing to stand 
>corrected.

Well, I know an Israeli named Mike O'Leary, so... :-)

>--Fred, or another blind 8th-century BC  |  sasafw@dobo.unx.sas.com

	-Nora


Newsgroups: misc.writing,rec.arts.poems,alt.activism,alt.prose,rec.arts.misc
From: dscott@lonestar.utsa.edu (Daniel K. Scott)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: Bad Places to have Good Ideas
Date: 27 Jul 92 20:31:03 GMT
Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio

When you have a good idea while taking a shower, turn off the water, wipe off
your hands, write down your idea, turn the water back on, get back in the
shower.
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: cass8806@elan.glassboro.edu (KYLE CASSIDY)
Subject: Re: Life as Art, vice as versa
Organization: Glassboro State College, Glassboro, NJ
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 15:10:20 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.224026.22911@nwnexus.WA.COM> elf@halcyon.com (Elf Sternberg) writes:

>In article <1992Jul27.185559.1@eagle.wesleyan.edu>
>     rstepno@eagle.wesleyan.edu writes:

>>That is, what do you think about churning your friends' lives into
>>fiction?

>   Everything, they say, is grist for the mill.  We've got precious
>little to base characters on except for personal experience.
>"Remember," I used to tell my friends, "Anything you say can and
>probably will show up in one of my stories."

i say go for it. i write down everything interesting that i hear, and as far 
as i'm concerned, once a witty comment or an interesting observation hits 
the air, it's public domain and i'm on it like a duck on a june bug. when 
you have communities of artists living near one another, the same stories 
often appear in several bodies of work. the diaries of anais nin and millers 
tropics come to mind, as well as burroughs naked lunch and paul bowels, 
theres also the neil cassidy, ginsburg, kerouac, etc. thing. who cares if a 
dozen people write it down? the only important things are who does it first, 
and who does it best. after that, it's all academic.
From: jtchew@csa3.lbl.gov (JOSEPH T CHEW)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: Life as Art
Date: 28 Jul 92 17:09:12 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory - Berkeley, CA, USA
Reply-To: jtchew@csa3.lbl.gov
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.254.198
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4   

> How do you respond when your date admits that he/she is a novelist
> (unpublished) and offers to loan you her/his last manuscript
> about the previous significant other... or the novel before that,
> about the person before that...?

I can think of two intriguing approaches: 

(a) Be a sport and embark upon an affair in which you treat him/her in
such a memorably and colorfully shabby fashion that you eclipse the
previous protagonists.

(b) Run even faster and further than you would from a date who dwells
excessively upon <troubled relationship with his/her parents> <prospects 
for matrimony and reproduction>  <great investment for which friend of
a friend needs prompt infusion of cash> <insert horror story here>.

I suspect that there are many satisfactory solutions, some of them 
even kind and polite.  But I would lean toward rejecting the ones that 
require reading the poor dear thing's undoubtedly wretched manuscript.

> What do you think about churning your friends' lives into fiction?

They call that a "roman a clef," which is French for "can't decide
whether to throw him to the lions or push him over the guardrail."

--Joe "Become famous -- love a novelist" Chew
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: bf455@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Bonita Kale)
Subject: Re: taboo subjects?
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 92 14:14:02 GMT




In a previous article, ramirez@julia.math.ucla.edu (Alice Ramirez) says:

>Awhile back, I wrote a book length manuscript that contained a romantic
>love theme involving a physically disabled woman and an ablebodied man.
>
>My agent's response was extremely, EXTREMELY negative.  To quote him,
>"One doesn't write romance novels involving crippled heroines.">
...
>This is, at least in my case, more than idle inquiry.  I had considered this my
>best, or at very least most socially relevant works;  my agent's response
>was devastating, I was unable to find another agent to handle this, editors of
>my acquaintance were uncomfortable with this topic and the result of all this
>is that my talent, or whatever you may call it, seems to have congealed.  I
>have drifted away from fiction and work now in another, unrelated field.  What
>writing I still do and get published is fundamentally non-fiction, on horti-
>culture.
>
>Has anyone else encountered what I call "taboos" either in a writing class
>or with an agent/publisher?  Are there any topics encountered by any of
>the others on this group that, by virtue (or vice) of what they are, 
>created such extremely negative response as to discourage exploration?
>

No, I haven't, but then, that's one of the advantages of sf: fewer taboos. 
But I'd like to know more.  Did you send it around at all?  Is it a real,
fits-the-formula romance, except for the heroine's disability?  Could it be
re-written so it isn't one?  I always understood that romances were so
formulaic that you weren't even allowed a homely heroine or a chubby hero. 
What about sending it around on your own; I mean, all it would cost is the
postage, so why not?

I know this isn't answering your questions or, really, responding to your
shock, but I can't help wanting to know more. 

Bonita Kale

Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: thigpen@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov (Keith Thigpen)
Subject: Is there a mailing list for this group?
Summary: Looking for a misc.writing mailing list
Keywords: mailing list
Organization: NASA/MSFC
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 15:32:45 GMT

I know that there is a writer's mailing list; is there also a gateway
for this group? I'd like to get this group through mail at home, where
I can savor every byte. :)

Keith

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Keith Thigpen          thigpen@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov      (205)461-4936   |
| New Technology, Inc.   Marshall Space Flight Center     Huntsville, AL   |
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: pierrot@milton.u.washington.edu (The Pierrot)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Trek Convention w./ Writer's Workshop -- A.C. Crispin
Keywords: A. C. Crispin, Trek
Date: 21 Jul 92 21:59:38 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Jul21.215938.4985
Distribution: pnw
Organization: ImperiCon Committee


		(I know that a lot of you probably won't 
	 	be interested in a sf/Trek convention, but
		we ARE going to be holding a Writer's Workshop
    		during the con.  It's a good opportunity to 
		work on your skills with the help of a professional
		writers.  Check it out.  Thanks.)

	

  ----------------------------------.  @@@@   .------------------------------
     I  M  P  E  R  I  C  O  N     /     @   /    THE  NEXT  CONVENTION
  --------------------------------'  @@@@   `--------------------------------
      LABOR DAY WEEKEND     |       @         | FEATURING: 24 hour Gaming and
       5th - 6th, 1992      |      @@@@@      | Videos, Panel Discussions,
   RADISSON HOTEL, Sea-Tac  |                 | Autograph Session, Hospitality
  17001 Pacific Highway So. | The Northwest's | Suite, Dealer's Room, Dance,
     Seattle, WA  98188     | _only_  fan-run | and more!
   Phone:  (206) 244-6000   | Trek convention >------------------------------
    Fax:  (206) 246-6835    | is back! . . .  | PLUS:  WRITER'S WORKSHOP with
   -------------------------<                 | A.C. Crispin 9am-12pm Sunday,
        GUEST OF HONOR:     | REGISTRATION:   | lecture and discussion - $20
         A. C. CRISPIN      | $17.00   $20.00 | workshop fee required to attend
    Author of "Yesterday's  | prereg   at the | Open to public - will review
    Son," "Time for Yester- |           door  | a limited number of manuscripts,
    day" and the upcoming   |                 | any genre, 5000 words or less,
    "Sarek," making her     |   Day passes    | for an additional $5 - all
    first con appearance in |  will be made   | manuscripts MUST be in Aug. 10th
    Seattle!                |   available.    `------------------------------
      FAN GUEST OF HONOR:   | .-----------------------------------------------
         BETTY BIGELOW      | |To preregister, or for more information, write:
    Master class Costumer,  | |     IMPERICON 2, 24026 21st Avenue South,
    Award Winning Artist,   | |Seattle, WA  98198-3956 [phone: (206) 365-1740]
    and Klingon Expert!     | |Make checks out to "Imperial StarBase Seattle."
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: mjanzen@healthy.uwaterloo.ca (Michael Edward Janzen)
Subject: Re: 
Organization: University of Waterloo
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 18:48:21 GMT

How many people here are published novelists?
How much do you make on a book?
How long do you take to write a book?
How long did take for you to get your first book published?
Do you have any basic important rules of things to do
(or not to do) in a story, and what publisher's to submit to
for a first novel (and how)?
I am mainly interested in sci-fi.  I would love to make a
career of it, but I'd like some area what I'm in for.
Another thing, what is your background in university (english, or other)?
Thanks.

Michael
 

Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: eliz@ai.mit.edu (Elizabeth Willey)
Subject: Re: Life as Art, vice as versa
Organization: MIT Artificial Intelligence Laboratory
	<1992Jul28.224026.22911@nwnexus.WA.COM>
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 15:02:09 GMT

Elf Sternberg writes, discussing the problem of roman a clef (hey,
wasn't she a Doctor Who companion...?):
   [...]
      Basically, you have three resources for information: Non-fiction
   (the newspaper and such), Fiction (other people's writings), and your
   life.  The last is, of course, usually the best and most honest, the
   only place where you really have any human emotions to write fiction
   with.

Don't forget the imagination, through which you process all of your
personal and vicarious experience, as well as what you think you know
about humanity, to produce a unique artifact.  Imagination is the most
potent tool available to any writer (techies too: imagine you're the
naive user, and start there).

Otherwise, Elf's (accurate) breakdown implies that all fiction is
fundamentally autobiographical, which is untrue.  May lightning strike
anyone who tries to biographize *me* from *my* fiction, anyway, and I
believe most of my writing friends would strongly agree.


Elizabeth Willey

["Mommy!  That lady said `biographize'!"]
[(after Brust)]
From: en01@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (EUGINA M. NOVAK)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: technical writing jobs???
Date: 21 Jul 92 17:20:56 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

Hi!  I wonder if anyone out there could offer some advice?  I currently work
as a research associate studying lakes in PA.  After 1 1/2 years, I've
discovered that research is not my calling.  It no longer creates enthusiasm
for me.  During this time, however, I have taken a few writing courses (I've
always enjoyed writing) and discovered that I adore it.  From reading postings
here on the net, I gather that writing in general doesn't prove very
lucrative.  I'd like to make a career change and I'm considering technical
writing.  While I don't want to be the person actually executing the research,
I think I could definitely write about it--methods, results, discussion, etc.
Through the course of my current job, I've written protocols, instructions for
volunteer monitors, a brochure, and numerous letters, proposals and
agreements.  Unfortunately, my supervisor bogs me down with research more than
writing and I'm going bonkers.  My questions are:
    what types of technical writing are available?
    What are the prospects of obtaining a writing position?
    What salary range do technical writers usually receive?
    What experience or requirements tend to be accepted?
    If you currently work as a technical writer, what does a typical day
    entail for you and are you happy with your position?
I have an M.S. in biology (actually ecology) and would like to stay in the
environmental/ecology/wildlife field.  Any suggestions or comments?  Please
e-mail me at en01@lehigh.edu.  Thanks!
--Gina Novak
  (en01@lehigh.edu)
From: jtchew@csa3.lbl.gov (JOSEPH T CHEW)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: taboo subjects?
Date: 27 Jul 92 17:16:39 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory - Berkeley, CA, USA
Reply-To: jtchew@csa3.lbl.gov
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.254.198
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4   

>My agent's response was extremely, EXTREMELY negative.  To quote him,
>"One doesn't write romance novels involving crippled heroines."  

Interesting.  Arthur Hailey's novel "Overload," published in the late 
70s, had a quadraplegic love interest for our hero.  One may argue how
romantic it really was -- in between the descriptions of facilities and
processes (Hailey must be a closet technical writer) our hero cuts a
swath through California, porking everything that will hold still -- but
it got published.

If you still think it's a good manuscript, you might want to try again.
Times may have changed, even in the bodice-ripping industry.

Joe "Back to my viewgraphs" Chew