HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cag@ems.cdc.com (Carol Gaupp)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
Subject: Re: PernMUSH Firelizard Regulations: Philosophy
Date: 29 Sep 92 00:13:21 GMT
Reply-To: cag@ems.cdc.com
Organization: Empros Systems International, a division of CDC

In article <1992Sep28.175417.7253@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>, lhb6v@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Laura Hayes Burchard) writes:
|> 
|> 
|> Your favorite FL fascist here :)
|> 

   Heh, no comment.

 [ stuff deleted ]

|> 
|> The best way to argue against this, therefore, is not to burst
|> out in indignation, or send nasty notes, but to show me how
|> multiple fls are not responsible for the growth in numbers, and
|> show me what is.  I respond *much* better to logically
|> argued number-backed arguments than anything else.
|> 
|> 
|> Talea
|> --

 I have lots of firelizards, yeppers. I was curious one day to see
 how much of the database I personally owned, having several characters
 in relatively high positions on Pern, and having played there almost
 a RL year. I have an extremely small, ludicriously small (not that I
 plan on getting more) portion of the database considering the things
 I'm responsible for. I have firelizards, yes. I destroy all the shards
 as I impress new ones. I ENJOY impressing firelizards. Shame on me I guess.
 This is not a competition, if it WAS a competition for me, I would have
 attempted to impress them all to one character, but I DON'T. When was
 the last time anyone saw Ari actually TRYING at a fl hatching, instead
 of watching? Hmmm? Doesn't sound like competition to me.

 I've had one hatching. And most of the people that they went to have
 idled out since I was trying to give them out to people that didn't
 have any or had very few, and therefore were not well established
 characters. I actually sort of regret having done the one hatching 
 at all, but I just couldn't resist doing one, just to have the experience 
 of it.

 You want to know what is? It's people who have green firelizards who
 as soon as they age another 3 RL months go "Oh! I have to have a
 clutching!" and set up a six green fl clutching or something stupid
 like that. Have you ever counted up how many hatchings are coming
 from greens? and how many are hatched from golds? I'd wager the
 people with golds are a lot more responsible.

 I've HAVE given reasonable, carefully thought out suggestions in prior
 posts, that have been apparently ignored since OBVIOUSLY the ENTIRE
 problem is just that a few selfish people impress too many firelizards.
 (sarcastic tone, yes)

 And yes, I agree, PernMUSH is huge. I have given suggestions on how to
 cut back on the future productions of firelizards. I would also suggest
 that people think about OTHER things that are clogging the database,
 like poor, wasted building that no one ever sees, etc.

 Oh yes, and by the way, I have given a rather large sum of money to the
 game in the interests of buying more disk space. Not that anything has
 yet been done with the money that was cashed a long time ago.

 Rather irate.

 Arianna et all.
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: 2120158@hydra.maths.unsw.EDU.AU ()
Subject: Re: Yapping
Organization: school of Mathematics UNSW
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 03:13:36 GMT

 agillum@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Aaron C Gillum) writes:
>Congratulations!
>I've successfully been driven off of this group by the incoherent babbling.
>
>Aaron Gillum


  WILL ALL OF YOU DICKHEADS PLEASE STOP WRITING ABOUT HOMOSEXUALS, BEDTIME
STORIES AND EACH OTHER AND KINDLY FUCK OFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  This has gone on for long enough. If you can't stop then at least limit
your replies to under 100 lines long. When I come accross articles 353, 104,
114 or even 74 lines long all you are doing is writing too each other, for
no-one else bothers to read so much CRAP.

  Now kindly discover how to e-mail and get the fuck off alt.fan.pern

CLEAR???????????????
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: txdv1@isuvax.iastate.edu (Angela KAY Rolling)
Subject: Moreta
Reply-To: txdv1@isuvax.iastate.edu
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 20:41:14 GMT

It was a case of had to be. Moreta was writen about something that had 
happened already in dragonriders. Part of the *ledgened* of Moreta is that
she sacraficed her self to save the planit so the book had to end with her
death.

ELF-KIN
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: jmars@mta.ca (Jennifer K. Mars)
Subject: Baths in the weyrs
Reply-To: jmars@mta.ca
Organization: Mount Allison U, Sackville, N.B. Canada 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 18:43:43 GMT

_DLG_, pg 121-122:
	"Like Fort and Benden, High Reaches was hollowed out with stonecutters.
	Some thermal baths were put in the queens' caverns and the Weyrleader's
	chamber, but most sanitary and bathing facilities in this and all
	later Weyrs were supplied with exterior pipes of ceramics or metal."

*sigh* That's the best erference I could find.  If you figure that the
level of water technology is probably about the level of the Romans,
that is, fairly well developed without the benefit of electric pumps,
you'd most likely end up arguing that any non-ground level-ish weyrs
would be unlikely to have a pool as elaborate as the one described in
the Lessa-gets-clean scene in _DF_.  However, given the fact that the
Weyrs are situated in volcanic cones, you'd have a lot of geothermally
heated water around as well as strange spring here and there (I think;
I'm not a geologist).
	
					-Shandra.

"The broke up because of religious differences - she thought she was
God and he disagreed."
From: jmm25@po.CWRU.Edu (Jessica M. Mcgeary)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
Subject: Re: A Bedtime Story
Date: 3 Oct 1992 19:38:57 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


OH GIVE IT UP!!! ALL OF YOU!!!

ENOUGH with these bedamned posts! If you're going to argue, take it to 
email, and if you insist on seeing blood flow go to an IRC and argue with
each other in realtime- but GIVE IT UP!

Get a life, dammit! Fardles, man, who CARES about this any more?
-- 
Jessica McGeary
jmm25@po.cwru.edu
Case Western Reserve University
Remember! Arguments should be FUN!
From: venkman@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Mezo)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
Subject: Re: A rather long story. : )
Date: 26 Sep 92 14:56:42 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523

Finely done!

An eloquent expression of how a rider must feel.

If anyone calls you a HomoPhobe ignore it...I think some people are just thin
skinned. Your story wasnt at all HomoPhobic...and it makes good sense...

Might even help a few reluctant riders to   understand.

Th'ron rider os Wulfrith/DragonsFire Muse.
You know the guy who gets flamed for even looking at this group. =)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: jsbell@acs.ucalgary.ca (Joshua Bell)
Subject: Re: Dragonflight Graphic Novel
Date: Sun, 04 Oct 92 00:39:57 GMT
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta

In article <1al82pINN18b@gap.caltech.edu> morpheus@cco.caltech.edu (Kynn Bartlett) writes:
>The latest Advance Comics has an ad from Eclipse Comics, who are
>evidentally republishing their three "bookshelf format" issues of
>their Dragonflight comic in one volume.  It should be out in
>December, and apparently will sell for $14.95 paperback, $34.95
>hardback.
>
>Pretty (IMNSHO) pictures and all, I -believe- the character designs
>were based on _People_of_Pern_; someone who got the previous
>limited series can probably verify or confirm this.

Yes. :) And the dragons are pretty good, but the artists for 1/3
was more to my taste than the artists of the last two. They have
ears instead of headknobs for all 3, but still looks good. :)

Joshua
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: ins450m@aurora.cc.monash.edu.au (T.F. Eccles)
Subject: Re: Drudges--What are they?
Organization: Monash University, Melb., Australia.
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 06:17:17 GMT

mcmahan@cs.unca.edu (Scott McMahan -- Genesis mailing list owner) writes:

>Drudges are the 90% of Pern's population the books
>do not concern. :^)

canonfodder? Like people in yellow uniforms on Star Trek: TNG>
:)

Eccles
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
Subject: Re: A Bedtime Story
From: ppugliese@pimacc.pima.edu
Date: 2 Oct 92 07:42:35 -0700

Hey have you heard the one about the big bad A'bar & A'beryl?

It seems they had been smoking too much numbweed & decided that
Pern was supposed to be stereotyped according to their hallucin-
ogen influenced logic. Well, after numerous failed attempts at
imposing their new Order upon Weyr, Hold & Hall, resisted staunchly
by the widely known hero who need not be named, the great God of
all Pern, known as AM, came along & struck them down mightily. The 
joy of all Pern was great indeed on that glorious occasion!


PHIL

p.s. Unlike *some* people I don't need to hide behind bogus addresses.
From: s914311@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au (Mr Some-one)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
Subject: Re: Two birds with, well, two stones, I guess...
Date: 29 Sep 92 02:17:45 GMT
Organization: RMIT Computer Centre
NNTP-Posting-Host: minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au

axg20@po.CWRU.Edu (Ashwath Ganesan) writes:



>Anyways, <there, that's better>, as far as I can see, fl's in the
>books have the collective intelligence of an avacado patch. (do

	In the books, around dragon flight i think, it says somewhere that the
fire lizards have a greater memory than the dragons.  It was also explained 
that this is because when Kitty Ping(???) engineered the dragons, she enhanced
the telepathic powers of the firelizards.  To do this she had to take something
away.  Well, that was also stated as being part of their (dragons) memory.

	So, in my view, I would say that the fl are more intelligent than the
dragons.

Just my opinion.

-- 
 ----------------------------------------------------------
|John Oliver                   |      Life is just a      |
|s914311@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au  |    temporary state of    |
|+61 3 789-4013                |        confusion.        |
From: aw1@Ra.MsState.Edu (Andrew Wargo)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
Subject: Senseless flaming/squabbling
Date: 5 Oct 92 23:17:18 GMT
Organization: Mississippi State University

*sigh* Ok. Here it goes... I subscribe to this newsgroup because I enjoy
Pern...in all it's forms...be they novels, future movies, MU*, or whatever.
I don't enjoy listening to you squabblers. You've already ran one person
away..why don't you take your arguments to email? None of us want to hear
you anymore. Please, shut up and email one another. Apparently you aren't
bright enough to realize that line that says 'This will post to machines
worldwide and will cost hundreds of not  thousands of dollars..' is quite
correct. Stop wasting our time and resources for your childish squabbling.
All you've done is prove to the world that you can argue for more days than
I care to remember and that you can't make a new point. Again, shut up and
uise email if you can't lead normal productive lives.

--
Regnat Populus!  | aw1@ra.msstate.edu | kith-kanan@rhostshyl.cit.cornell.edu
The People Rule! | awargo@nyx.cs.edu  | MU* Chars.: Kith-Kanan, Akkad,
                 |                    | Stormbringer, Kithan
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: vaughnl@ucs.orst.edu (Luke Vaughn)
Subject: Re: Drudges--What are they?
Organization: University Computing Services - OSU
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 02:38:25 GMT

In article <1a5dtsINNqf6@gap.caltech.edu> julius@cco.caltech.edu (julius yang) writes:
>
>Over 2500 Turns genetic drift and inbreeding could easily cause problems
>despite the supposed perfection of the initial pool.  (I'm no biologist,
>but it seems reasonable to me!)  What bothers me is that drudges seem to
>be a necessary and large part of every major Hold's workforce, and yet
>they can't POSSIBLY be such a large segment of the population.  Humans
>are generally healthy stock, after all.  Think living in all that rock
>causes radiation mutation faster? :)
>I don't think you can really equate a drudge with a slave--though instances
>of drudge mistreatment exist it's not as if guards have to be standing over
>them all the time.
>
>F'zik

I won't argue with the gentics stuff. And I agree that you can't equate drudges
with slaves. But I don't see what the problem is. By my definition someone who
is given repitive jobs, typically distasteful or requiring little in way of hard
thinking, on a regular basis is what could be called a drudge. Now don't get me
wrong on all of this, I know what this means from personal experience, having 
done dishes at a conference center most of this last summer and I would say that
by my definition I was doing drudge duty.

What I think has to be understood is that in a semi-feudal agrarian society such
as Pern is, there is going to be a larger need for minial labor than there is
in modern society. Another factor is that A.M. is from britain, which has a 
larger cultural basis than America to draw one for her writings. 

Another factor to consider is that with the example of Lord Holders having large
families, most hold people would be likely to have them also, and in such a 
case, I think there is going to be a time when people have to take minial jobs,
for lack of anything better to do or go gypsy. And a lot of people will take 
such jobs and retain the known comforts of where they are rather than go
wandering around, especially with thread falling?

Also we must consider that Camo, is not exactly an ordinary drudge, examples of
those are better found in DragonDrums. According to the book People of Pern, 
which Im not sure if it is canon or not but probably is considering who wrote it
, he is the son of Robinton and Silvina, which would explain alot about why he
is treated as he is, aside from natural politeness. 

I think that about covers everything I have to say.

Luke Vaughn
vaughnl@ucs.orst.edu
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: jsbell@acs.ucalgary.ca (Joshua Bell)
Subject: Re: Drudges--What are they?
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 92 23:57:27 GMT
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta

In article <BVFuRB5w164w@penn.Gwinnett.COM> bfbear@penn.Gwinnett.COM (Penn Collins) writes:
>vaughnl@ucs.orst.edu (Luke Vaughn) writes:
>> Also we must consider that Camo, is not exactly an ordinary
>>drudge, examples those are better found in DragonDrums. According
>>to the book People of Pern, which Im not sure if it is canon or
>>not but probably is considering who wrote, he is the son of
>>Robinton and Silvina, which would explain alot about why he is
>>treated as he is, aside from natural politeness.      

>really? I had not heard this, but wondered why he seemed
>'special' (always had a warm spot in my heart for him).....where
>is this speculated from (no flame meant, just curious, and I like
>the idea...) 

PLEASE wordwrap before you hit 70 columns!

Ahem. :) As the first poster said, its not speculated, its
explicitly stated in People of Pern, by Anne McCaffrey and Robin
Wood (RW did the illustrations, AM did the text). p70:

'Camo is the son of Silvina and Masterharper Robinton....'

Good enough for me. :)

On the subject of Drudges, Camo is most definitely an exception,
being the son of two rather imporant people and mentally retarted
(Anne's term, I dunno what the PC is this month). I would imagine
the other drudges are simply the lower end of the economic scale.
No talents _or_ no recognition of those talents which would allow
them to advance. The drudges at the Harper Hall are likely
treated much better than those at, say, Nabol (under Meron) or
one of Fax's holds under his reign.

Joshua
|         A shimmering net undulating like an infinite borealis.             |
|                                                  - Chapterhouse: Dune      |
|                                                                            |
| jsbell@acs.ucalgary.ca  Academic Computing Services, University of Calgary |
From: lwl@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Lydia Leong)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
Subject: Re: PernMUSH Firelizard Regulations: Philosophy
Date: 29 Sep 92 02:27:56 GMT
Organization: Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

In article <27685@nntp_server.ems.cdc.com> cag@ems.cdc.com writes:
> Have you ever counted up how many hatchings are coming
> from greens? and how many are hatched from golds? I'd wager the
> people with golds are a lot more responsible.

So what's your suggestion? Restrict clutches to golds? I don't think
that'd exactly be a popular idea. I agree, though -- most of the clutches
I see these days are green, not gold. To quote the books, Pern is up
to its eyeballs in little green firelizards.

While there might not be a "competition" as such, a lot of people seem
to be trying for matched sets of fire-lizards (one of every color).

> And yes, I agree, PernMUSH is huge. I have given suggestions on how to
> cut back on the future productions of firelizards. I would also suggest
> that people think about OTHER things that are clogging the database,
> like poor, wasted building that no one ever sees, etc.

Actually, you might not realize this, but Ambar in particular has spent
an awful lot of time going through building and such owned by inactive
characters and blowing it up. Stuff _is_ getting recycled, but objects
are being created at an even faster rate.

Fire-lizards and shards are pretty good-sized objects. DragonFire MUSE
might have the right idea in insisting everyone use a generic fire-lizard
and controller parent.

Still, that doesn't cut down the absolutely insane size of the skylock
these days.

> Oh yes, and by the way, I have given a rather large sum of money to the
> game in the interests of buying more disk space. Not that anything has
> yet been done with the money that was cashed a long time ago.

This was discussed at the last Pern wiz meeting. Myjar is arranging for
Pern to get its own machine, and the money will be used to buy a drive
for that machine.

Disk space isn't the only problem, though. Pern's process size is also
_huge_. The size of the database contributes to this.

/-----------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|  Lydia Leong / Amberyl  |  The few. The proud.       |  lwl@csa.bu.edu      |
|  lwl@seas.upenn.edu     |  The certifiably insane.   |  lwl@elof.iit.edu    |
|  lwl@imsasun.imsa.edu   |  The wizards of PernMUSH.  |  128.102.31.78 4201  |
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------------/
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern,rec.games.mud.misc,rec.games.mud.tiny
From: jsbell@acs.ucalgary.ca (Joshua Bell)
Subject: Re: An ad - call me crazy.
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 92 04:57:05 GMT
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta

In article <1992Sep26.195729.19294@sun1x.actc.res.utc.com> raybro@sun1x.actc.res.utc.com (Ray Brohinsky) writes:
>like to know how.
>
>What do dragonriders _do_ to justify their existance in 500-year,
>PostAtWOP Pern?

PernMUSH was founded before ATWOP was published. Policy thus-far
has been that to retrofit the MUSH to acknowledge the changes
would be damn near impossible, and that the changes would not be
conducive to a good role-playing environment, so PernMUSH ignores
the events of All the Weyrs of Pern, and the last chapter or so
of Renegades of Pern (ie, the AIVAS was never discovered or just
didn't survive).

SouCon and other Pern MU*s appear to have similar policies, but I
can't speak for them. I believe the unopened (and siteless)
PernWorld was going to be set 10th-pass Post ATWOP, but you'll
have to ask the coordinators what their story was (coincidentally
they asked on alt.fan.pern for its reader's opinions. :)

If you do accept ATWOP, you are faced with two choices - the Red
Star really _is_ gone for good, and riders are a glorified taxi
service, or they go off and explore the galaxy (not that much in
keeping with the books, either way) OR that the Red Star did
return - something the AIVAS just couldn't help, like a comet
collision, near miss with a micro-black hole, or (my personal
favorite), a Federation of Sentient Planets base was established
on the Red Planet at aphelion, and nuked by the Nathis shortly
thereafter, or vice-versa.

Joshua
|         A shimmering net undulating like an infinite borealis.             |
|                                                  - Chapterhouse: Dune      |
|                                                                            |
| jsbell@acs.ucalgary.ca  Academic Computing Services, University of Calgary |
From: lwl@be.seas.upenn.edu (Lydia Leong)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
Subject: Re: A Bedtime Story
Date: 5 Oct 92 03:19:39 GMT
Organization: Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

In article <1992Oct5.010318.426@u.washington.edu> 
   kruegek@stein.u.washington.edu (Kirby Krueger) writes in reply to PHIL:
>And, to the best of my knowledge, nobody on a PernMUSH has forced you to
>have sex as a result of a mating flight.  If they say it is preferred, that
>is not intolerance.  Once they actually force you to do it, you've got a
>valid complaint.  (Although I'd suggest that if you have severe problems with
>policy, you might find a different place to play rather than rant and rave
>in the middle of everyone else's fun.)

Just as a statement of policy:

PernMUSH to my knowledge, as a wizard and a former senior weyrwoman, does
NOT actively encourage sex as the result of a mating flight. A large number
of players seem to like to play this out, whether in a continuing post-flight
soap opera and/or actual tinysex after the flight.  Candidates, though,
are generally told that this is by no means either required nor even
encouraged.

Other characters will make the assumption that follows the books: something
happened after the flight. Whether or not anything more is made of this is
up to the characters involved. This is not enforced by any kind of MUSH
policy. If you are being pressured by Someone In Authority to do something
you don't want to, post-flight, _complain to a wizard and the problem
will be dealt with_.

The wizards, however, don't control the opinions of the players. If 
other characters make assumptions, that's not an Official Problem.

/-----------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|  Lydia Leong / Amberyl  |  The few. The proud.       |  lwl@csa.bu.edu      |
|  lwl@seas.upenn.edu     |  The certifiably insane.   |  lwl@elof.iit.edu    |
|  lwl@imsasun.imsa.edu   |  The wizards of PernMUSH.  |  128.102.31.78 4201  |
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------------/
From: ktoast@milton.u.washington.edu (Toast M. Jost)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
Subject: Re: Blue/green/brown -- from the horse's mouth
Date: 4 Oct 92 16:01:35 GMT
Organization: University of Washington

Rich.Rubel@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Rich Rubel) writes:


>Elizabeth A. Lynn- Chronicles of Tornor... that's 5.
>Doesn't (didn't?) Robert Heinlein treat homosexuality as normal, also?
>[RICHR

No... My impression was that he didn't think it was wrong but it wasn't okay 
either.  SIASL is the only reasonably positive reference I can think of.  And of
course later in his career he focused exclusively on exquistely beautiful and
brilliant and lusty women falling madly in love with your average joe-shmo who 
looked a lot like Heinlien at that age :)  IMHO of course

Flames to e-mail, please, since this isn't alt.fan.heinlein  :)

Toast
ktoast@u.washington.edu
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: blocker@dominic.ssc.gov (Rich Hall)
Subject: Re: Yapping
Followup-To: Yapping
Organization: Superconducting Super Collider Laboratory
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 23:54:00 GMT

Goodbye, PHIL

Dear Boron and friends:
Anyone for starting a secret newsgroup and not telling certain people about it?

Journeyman Smith Feldspar, DragonsFire
From: mcmahan@cs.unca.edu (Scott McMahan -- Genesis mailing list owner)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
Subject: Re: Drudges--What are they?
Date: 27 Sep 92 22:21:07 GMT
Organization: University of North Carolina at Asheville
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

Drudges are the 90% of Pern's population the books
do not concern. :^)

Scott