HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: irilyth@fenris.claremont.edu (Josh Smith)
Subject: Re: *BAD* music group reorg will not be honored
Originator: irilyth@fenris
Organization: HMC Academic Computing Services
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 16:32:36 GMT

In a prior article, Ken Arromdee (arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu) writes:

> And of course people who do speak get flamed into oblivion.

I've spoken on a variety of issue, and not been flamed into oblivion. I
joined in the flamefest that was the s.r.i.a RFD, and managed to avoid
flames. What you say and how you say it has a lot to do with what people say
back and how they say it. Thoughtful, polite messages generally don't get
flames in repsonse, unless the respondents are trying to start something--
and when they are, it's often painfully obvious, and those sympathetic to
the first poster will often jump all over the flamer.

Don't think of Usenet as a giant furnace, where you have to help feed the
fires or get cooked. Use the flames, grill a burger, and enjoy your dinner.

This slightly off-the-wall comment may be seen as a koan, or as nonsense.

Incidentally, I have no doubt that some random person will flame this
message just to show that sometimes polite people get flamed. Ha, ha ha, I
am verily impressed with your wit. Consider it done, and save the bandwidth.
-- 
Josh Smith, User Support Coordinator  ::  irilyth@fenris.claremont.edu
Harvey Mudd College, Claremont CA     ::  consult(std-disclaimer.pl).
"Dad always thought laughter was the best medicine, which I guess is why
several of us died of tuberculosis." -Jack Handey, Deep Thoughts
From: randall-joshua@yale.edu (Joshua Randall)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.games.frp.campaign
Date: 12 Nov 1992 16:54:03 -0500
Organization: Yale University Science & Engineering UNIX(tm), New Haven, CT 06520-2158
NNTP-Posting-Host: minerva.cis.yale.edu

In article <BxM6vL.LJL@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> cbnorman@cayley.uwaterloo.ca () writes:
>In article <1992Nov10.210335.10608@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> hades@Dartmouth.Edu writes:
>>    Utter nonsense. Campaigns have been discussed in rec.games.frp and
>>in the rec.games.frp.* hierarchy for over 7 years. You have been reading
>>these groups for only 2 months. What makes you think you know something
>>about campaigning that those of us who have been here for the 7 years
>>don't? 

[deletion]

>I also object to your implication that knowledge of campaigning is directly
>proportional to the length of time one has been reading rec.games.frp.*.
>*That* is utter nonsense.

I hate to say it, but Bruce is right here.  It is certainly possible
to know alot about campaignin without reading UseNet.  Lord knows I
fall into that category; I've only been reading the 'Net for a year.

[deletion]

>What is your point? All I said was I am sure that either of use will accept
>the results of a formal CFV!

Haha!  Randall leaps into the fray, flailing about with his huge,
bloody Claymore (TM).  Limbs go flying everywhere....  (BTW, Bruce,
would this make it into .campaign?)

Anyway, *I* will not accept the results of a formal CFV because this
group does not deserve to come to vote.  I quote from the guidelines
on creating a new group:

"The Vote

   1) AFTER the discussion period, if it has been determined that a new
   group is
   really desired, a name and charter are agreed upon, and it has been
   determined whether the group will be moderated and if so who will
   moderate it, a call for votes may be posted to news.announce.newgroups"

I don't think that this group is "really desired" by anyone except
Bruce.

-- 
Joshua E. Randall                       randall-joshau@yale.edu
From: starfish@stein.u.washington.edu (Sarah Skovronsky)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: leave alt.folklore.computers alone, rmgroup comp.society.folklore
Date: 9 Nov 92 04:47:47 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Nov9.044747.11430
Organization: University of Washington

jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard) writes:

>In article <1992Nov7.021748.19266@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> jfurr@nyx.cs.du.edu (Joel Furr) writes:
>>The side benefit of this discussion, other than convincing the ravaging
>>hordes of Huns out fot alt.folklore.* blood to leave us alone, is that all
>>this may convince a few syadmins to start picking up alt.folklore.*! 
>>After all, we're demonstrating here that there're at least a few people
>>out there who value those groups enough to either try to swipe them or to
>>defend them to the death! :)

>Argh.

>All you alt.* diehards are doing is insuring that I won't be able to
>participate.

>So be it.

>I truly don't understand why you (generic you) are so adamant about wishing to
>remain in the sewer...but I'm now convinced that you are not willing to
>rationally consider the situation. I give up.

You probably wouldn't get our "in-jokes" anyway.  Furrfu.

-- 
************************************************************************
*            Sarah Skovronsky     starfish@u.washington.edu            *
* "Introduce point (x,y), a random act of kindness to that circle." RB *
**********fnord!********furrfu!********hi-keeba!********meep!***********
From: plutchak@pilsner.geo.brown.edu (Joel Plutchak)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: *BAD* music group reorg will not be honored
Date: 10 Nov 1992 15:15:48 GMT
Organization: Brown University Planetary Geology
NNTP-Posting-Host: pilsner.geo.brown.edu

In article <1992Nov10.004253.5370@jato.jpl.nasa.gov> dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov writes:
>I'm willing (and always have been willing) to fight 
>as much as I have to until some sort of change takes place. Watch.
>-- 
>Dave Hayes - Network & Communications Engineering - JPL / NASA - Pasadena CA

   Too bad some of your colleagues aren't fighting for change, too;
there are quite a few things that could be done better out there.  What's
that you say?  This is just USENET, not your job we're talking about?
Sorry for the mixup.  I thought we were dscussing something *important*.
:-)
--
Joel Plutchak, Research Programmer/Analyst
From: lim@merlion.CWRU.Edu (Hock Koon Lim)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: soc.culture.singaporean
Date: 7 Nov 1992 18:30:33 GMT
Organization: Information Network Services, Case Western Reserve
Distribution: world
Reply-To: lim@po.CWRU.Edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: merlion.ins.cwru.edu


In article <16897B41D.C96@vm.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>, C96@vm.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (Alexander EICHENER) writes:
$ In article <1992Nov6.061354.1583@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg>
$ mfltan@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Man) writes:
$  
$ >>Mar Siew Cheong (escmar@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg) wrote:
$ >> Proposed Newsgroup's Name
$ >> =========================
$ >>   soc.culture.singaporean
$ >>
$ > Its high time to have a group for the Singaporeans. I support the idea.
$ > However, I think the proposed newsgroups's name should be
$ > "soc.culture.singapore". Easier to call.
$  
$ If you just want a group for yourself and your fellows, create a local one
$ (shouldn't be too difficult in a country of your size). If there are
$ reasons beyond simple nationalism, you would better explain them.
$    I don't see the need for a separate net-clogger. Hongkong, Singapore
$ and Macau might well be kept in one group.

   
 I don't agree with you.   The propose group is for all Singaporean and 
reader who interested in the development of Singapore around
the world.  There are ten of thousand students and professional has Internet
accessed around the world.   A local group setup by Mr. Mar will not get to
my site in U.S.A.   Also, the size of the country has nothing to do with 
the news group creation.  Although Singapore is a small island country, there 
are relatively large number of users on Internet who like to know the development
of the country.

    Traditionally, most of the singapore related issues
are discussed in the soc.culture.asean group.  However, the traffic load on
the s.c.a has increased a lot over the last fews years after many Singapore
sites get connected to the Internet.  There are similarity between the culture
of Singapore, Hong Kong and China, but the social structure and development of
these countries are difference.    I would said it is the right time to
create a news group under soc.culture.   I would suggest to use the name
soc.culture.singapore.

Thanks,


 
-- 
Hock-Koon Lim, Information Network services
Case Western Reserve University; Cleveland, Ohio, USA  44106   
(216) 368-2982        lim@ins.cwru.edu
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg)
Subject: Re: Intentional ignorance of newsgroup creation (was Re: *BAD*...)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 16:38:55 GMT
Organization: TC Telemanagement, Clearwater, FL

According to dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov:
>chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg) writes:
>>They are guilty of ignoring important facets of the workings of Usenet.
>
>Guilt isn't appropriate when the awareness of the situation isn't even
>there in the first place. 

"Ignorance of the law," etc.

>>They have just as much power in the newsgroup creation process as
>>anyone else does.
>
>Only if they know that they HAVE that power.

No.  They have the power, regardless.  If they fail to exercise it,
that's their fault.
-- 
Chip Salzenberg at Teltronics/TCT  <chip@tct.com>, <73717.366@compuserve.com>
                 just another elitist Usenet administrator
Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.music.synth,news.admin
From: chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg)
Subject: Re: Intentional ignorance of newsgroup creation (was Re: *BAD*...)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 14:32:23 GMT
Organization: TC Telemanagement, Clearwater, FL

According to dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov:
>Ah...but that doesn't mean that the average user doesn't want to know
>how to prevent his favorite group from disappearing.

Look, Dave, it's not disappearing, it's being _renamed_.  If you
refuse to see the difference, they you are refusing to see reality.

>Class B are those who haven't run across anything about group creation
>in their travels on usenet.  It is those in class B that I am trying to
>get people to understand about. They exist.

Of course they exist.  The first question is, should we do anything to
educate them?  The answer is, we already have: that's why n.a.newusers
exists.  The second question is, should their existence provide reason
to redo the r.m.m.s vote?  The answer is, not a chance.
-- 
Chip Salzenberg at Teltronics/TCT  <chip@tct.com>, <73717.366@compuserve.com>
                 just another elitist Usenet administrator
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: mike@jammin.nosc.mil (mike pawka)
Subject: Re: CFV: rec.music.reggae
Organization: NRaD
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 17:22:43 GMT

In article <1de85pINNf1a@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu>, rick@crick.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu (Richard H. Miller) writes:
|> In article <1992Nov6.152418.858@nosc.mil>, mike@jammin.nosc.mil (mike pawka) writes:
|> > Call For Votes
|> > 
|> > Proposed Newsgroup: rec.music.reggae
|> > 
|> Two comments:
|> 
|> 
|> 1) Was there a RFD for this proposed news group. I honestly do not remember one
|> in the last few weeks. Please post the dates that the RFD was issued. [If there
|> was not one, then this CFV is invalid].
|>

	There was an RFD posted about a month ago, don't have the dates.
 
|> 2) Was this CFV posted to news.announce.newgroups?. This is also required for
|> a vote to be valid. If it was, it is not a good idea to post a separate article
|> prior to the nan version being posted. We have had problems in the past with
|> temporial distortions in a close vote due to the timing of the various CFV
|> articles. In any case, until it appears in nan, I do not consider it to be
|> a valid CFV
|>

	I have tried to post it about 5 times, but it never shows up. I posted it
the last time just before I posted this one???
                             
							Mike
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: CS341A002@Husky1.StMarys.Ca (Loki)
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.games.frp.campaign
Organization: The Underground
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 14:21:53 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.13.SMU

Nicolai.Shapero@f524.n102.z1.fidonet.org writes:
>
> Joshua Randall wrote:
> 
>  JR>FLAME ON
> 
>  JR>FidoNet is realtively small.  UseNet is huge.
> 
> FidoNet is made up of something over 19,000 BBSs, virtually all of
> which are privately funded (we do this out of our own
> pocket, kiddo).  Last I heard, Usenet had something over 80,000 nodes,
> so it is significantly larger.  But not all THAT
> much larger...and FidoNet is growing like a weed...

   UseNet has far more nodes than that, I believe. However, that's not
really the point. Most of the nodes on FidoNet are single-line BBSes, with
maybe a couple hundred or so regular users. Most of the nodes on Usenet are
multi-line setups with *lots* and *lots* of users. There are way, way more
people on Usenet...

>  JR>FidoNet is a like a happy family.  UseNet is (to steal a .sig) 
>  JR>like
>  JR>the Klingon High Command:  brutal, and fill with phsychotic 
>  JR>people
>  JR>like *me* who will FLAME FLAME FLAME until we get our point 
>  JR>across.
> 
> FidoNet is also sometimes known as "Fight-o-Net".  No, it is not
> a "happy family", unless your idea of a happy family is Jack the
> Ripper's.
> 
> The typical FidoNet sysop (at least locally) is somewhat past
> college age.  And is somewhat more likely to deal with irritants
> in a more direct and effective fashion than flaming, although
> there is certainly enough of that as well.

   And somewhat more autocratic.

   No offense, but FidoNet has a serious rep among BBSland for being
dictatorial to an extreme. It's one reason why I won't touch it... Usenet
is delightfully anarchic.

         Loki         | cs341a002@husky1.stmarys.ca | Brynjolfr Myrkjartanarson
 often sysop of TWWOL | cs341a002@stmarys.bitnet    |    Compaignie Mercurie

Darkness makes the sunlight so bright that our eyes blur with tears.
Challenges remind us that we are capable of great things.
Misery sharpens the edges of our joy.

Life is hard. It is supposed to be.

                --- Zena Marley, from GDW's Dark Conspiracy
From: hartman@ulogic.UUCP (Richard M. Hartman)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: comp.ai.fuzzy
Date: 14 Nov 92 00:59:38 GMT
Organization: negligable

seconded.  if we're talking about fuzzy logic, sci.logic.fuzzy sounds
like a good place.  although I do like the idea of it being under the
comp heirarchy, I can't think of a good place (it seems my comp.algorithms.*
proposal wasn't very well liked :)

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Oh I give my life so lightly		|
to my gentle lady.			|	-Richard Hartman	
Giving freely, and completely,		|	hartman@uLogic.COM
for my lady.				|
From: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Dave Hayes)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: Music Group Reorg Disagreement (was Re: *BAD* music group reorg will not be honored)
Date: 12 Nov 92 05:33:50 GMT
Article-I.D.: jato.1992Nov12.053350.4155
Reply-To: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov
Organization: Jet Propulsion Lab - Pasadena, CA

stanley@skyking.OCE.ORST.EDU (John Stanley) writes:
>Mike, do you read the entire net? Do you read rec.aviation? Do you read
>misc.drugs? Do you look in every possible newsgroup to find material
>relevant to synths? Do you see much material related to aviation in
>rec.music.synth?
>No. Material posted to rec.music.synth has something to do with
>rec.music.synth. (Sometimes not, but generally it does.) 

I don't believe that you (masquerading as an aware usenetter) are 
going to argue that all posts have relavence to the group that
they are found in.

Or didn't you see the "Fuck You All" posts a while back?

>Funny how, were your assumption to be true, that of all those people
>who POST to rec.music.synth that Dave Hayes counted, NOBODY started
>such a "large noise" about it in that group. 

Straw Man. The noise is starting now. Deal with the present.
-- 
Dave Hayes - Network & Communications Engineering - JPL / NASA - Pasadena CA
dave@elxr.jpl.nasa.gov       dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov         ...usc!elroy!dxh

   History is not usually what has happened.
            History is what some people have thought to be significant.
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: rorschak@daimi.aau.dk (Jesper Lauridsen)
Subject: Re: Intentional ignorance of newsgroup creation (was Re: *BAD*...)
Organization: Xanth Watch
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 22:09:07 GMT

chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg) writes:

>According to gvh@metrosoft.com (Gordon Van Huizen):
>>In article <1992Nov9.175405.13641@daimi.aau.dk> rorschak@daimi.aau.dk  
>>(Jesper Lauridsen) writes:
>>> ... it's simply a question of being interested or not.
>>Interest isn't the only requirement.

>Yes, it is.  Or can you show other requirements?

Yes, the great hurdle of being able to read an article. Remember,
rec.music.synth is being gateway into small VIC-20 based systems
where the users can't read articles. Do you really want to exclude
them from the newsgroup creating process?
-- 
Jesper Lauridsen        |  I survived the rec.arts.sf-lovers split
rorschak@daimi.aau.dk   | 
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Dave Hayes)
Subject: Re: *BAD* music group reorg will not be honored
Reply-To: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov
Organization: Jet Propulsion Lab - Pasadena, CA
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 21:53:01 GMT

stanley@skyking.OCE.ORST.EDU (John Stanley) writes:
>I suppose you have mail in your mailbox from Bill Clinton objecting to
>the r.m.s rename vote.

From: clinton@democrats.org
To: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov
Subject: Renaming of rec.music.synth

Al and I were talking and it seems that Tipper's favorite group was renamed
by some Republican factions bent on oppressing the poor people of this country.
Her group was called rec.music.synth. Would you please tell those factions
that the President Elect will not tolerate such oppression unless they
vote for me in '96? Thank yew. 
---
Bill Clinton - President Elect

(If matthew can, I can)
-- 
Dave Hayes - Network & Communications Engineering - JPL / NASA - Pasadena CA
dave@elxr.jpl.nasa.gov       dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov         ...usc!elroy!dxh

Compassion will cure more sins than condemnation.
Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.games.frp.dnd,rec.games.frp.misc,rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: cbnorman@cayley.uwaterloo.ca ()
Subject: Re: Call for "Straw" Votes: Rec.games.frp.campaign
Followup-To: news.groups
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 14:20:24 GMT

In article <1992Nov13.135404.5389@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> cbnorman@cayley.uwaterloo.ca writes:
>In article <Bxn3x4.852@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> 
>cbnorman@cayley.uwaterloo.ca () writes:
>
>>                            "Straw" Call For Votes
>>                         on the proposed NEW newsgroup
>>                            rec.games.frp.campaign
>>
>[charter of the redundant group removed]
>
>Hm, so the opposition has no voice in your poll?
>
>I can see the statistics now:
>
>"100% of the respondents supported the new group.
>

It was stated very clearly that the purpose of the Straw vote is to 
confirm that their are people interested in this group.  This is being
done as several people have claimed that no one supports the group.  This
is despite my announcement that I have received supporting netmail.

How many people are against the group is not relevent to the Straw poll.
If more than 100 people respond to the Straw, there will be a CFV, even
if 10,000 people responded "no" to the Straw.  THE STRAW IS NOT A FORMAL
CFV.

>I also notice that you completely excluded the groups *directly affected* by
>the change from your poll.  As a favor I have set the crossposting to the
>three discussion groups in the rec.games.frp.* hierarchy.
>
If you had bothered to check those grops first you would have seen that
I *did* cross post it there.  Oh well, two copies is better than one....


Newsgroups: news.groups
From: gvh@metrosoft.com (Gordon Van Huizen)
Subject: Re: *BAD* music group reorg will not be honored 
Reply-To: gvh@metrosoft.com (Gordon Van Huizen)
Organization: Metrosoft
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 22:36:22 GMT

In article <1992Nov7.234743.11171@philmtl.philips.ca>  
ray@philmtl.philips.ca (Ray Dunn) writes:
> All of this discussion is irrelevant.
> 
Not if it can have a positive outcome on the future.

> What we have is someone who, to suit his own ends, is choosing to ignore  
an
> otherwise perfectly valid vote process, trying to change the rules after
> the fact, acting like a five year old.
> 
Some of us don't think it was 'perfectly valid'. It could certainly have  
been done better. And it isn't just 'one person'.

> Quite pathetic really.
> 
As pathetic as not listening to people that are providing feeback and  
suggestions?

> But does it matter?  Let him have his tantrum and do what he likes on  
his
> own system.  It's of no consequence to the rest of the net.

It is of consequence, because this could happen again. People have been  
negatively affected by this. Less of that could happen in the future, and  
a lot less time wasted.

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Van Huizen           vox: 619.488.9411  fax: 619.488.3045
Metrosoft                   gvh@metrosoft.com [NeXTmail welcome]
----------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.music.synth
From: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Dave Hayes)
Subject: Re: *BAD* music group reorg will not be honored
Keywords: where was the CFV posted
Reply-To: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov
Organization: Jet Propulsion Lab - Pasadena, CA
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 19:13:04 GMT

strom@Watson.Ibm.Com (Rob Strom) writes:
>Please:  does anyone have an archive which can
>conclusively show that the 3 CFVs were posted on
>rms?  

They were, but with the subject line of "CFV: rec.music.makers.* groups". 
No reference to "rec.music.synth" was made. In fact, this is misleading.
If it had been "CFV: rec.music.{makers,synth}.*" or some such I could see 
that. 
-- 
Dave Hayes - Network & Communications Engineering - JPL / NASA - Pasadena CA
dave@elxr.jpl.nasa.gov       dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov         ...usc!elroy!dxh

        There is a saying: "I believe it because it is impossible"
If you make any study of people in a state of what they are pleased to call 
belief, you will find that you can usually best describe them by the saying:
                  "My belief has made me impossible."
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Dave Hayes)
Subject: Re: *BAD* music group reorg will not be honored
Reply-To: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov
Organization: Jet Propulsion Lab - Pasadena, CA
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1992 02:20:32 GMT

jaapjl@tab00.larc.nasa.gov (J Lee Jaap) writes:
>Some of us think you're playing the part of the fool, 

Which, I might add....I enjoy doing. Especially when there's a cause. 

>If you have further evidence, post it and we'll consider it
>rationally, as we have with that presented so far (for the most part,
>IMO).  If it's adequate to support your case, we'll discover that.
>If not, we'll discover that as well.

This is a very subtle straw man. There are some points there that I 
cannot prove due to the nature of the net, but that are valid points 
of contention anyway. 

>Dave, put up or shut up.  Please.  For the good of the net.

I do not have to do either. Sorry.
-- 
Dave Hayes - Network & Communications Engineering - JPL / NASA - Pasadena CA
dave@elxr.jpl.nasa.gov       dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov         ...usc!elroy!dxh

Compassion will cure more sins than condemnation.
Xref: sparky news.groups:21575 comp.ai.neural-nets:4262
From: chu_c@IASTATE.EDU (Chao-Hsien Chu)
Newsgroups: news.groups,comp.ai.neural-nets
Subject: RE: RFD: comp.ai.fuzzy
Date: 13 Nov 92 20:32:44 GMT
Reply-To: chu_c@IASTATE.EDU (Chao-Hsien Chu)
Organization: Iowa State University

Comp.fuzzy seems a better name than comp.ai.fuzzy 
as some topic of fuzzy theory is broader than AI
and many people involve fuzzy research and 
applications are not touch with AI (of course, it
also dependent on how you define AI).

C. H. Chu
College of Business
Iowa State University