From: mcsdc1jpb@dct.ac.uk (john bell)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: Re: Uniteds' principles
Date: 27 Jan 93 19:29:34 GMT
Organization: Dundee Institute of Technology

In article <1993Jan27.084025.3118@dct.ac.uk>, mcsbc2gw@dct.ac.uk writes:
> FERGUSON : NOBODY DOES IT BETTER.
> 
> The Duncan Ferguson saga being discussed in Scotland has been escalated 
> out of all proportion. What started as a simple relegation to the reserves
> due to poor form, has become a transfer saga with a war of words being
> bitterly exchanged between the player, the agent, Mr McLean and Mr Murray.
> Wether he moves or not is a separate question, but the fact is that
> the player himself has broken numerous disciplinary measures on more than
> one occassion and is now persueing a course of action to recover some of 
> those fines by challenging the clubs' disciplinary system.

SURELY HE HAS A RIGHT TO CHALLENGE A RIDICULOUS SYSTEM OF FINES? HAVE YOU SEEN
SOME OF THE REGULATIONS?

> 
> This system was drawn up by the senior players with the management and, 
> was agreed on by the entire playing staff at Tannadice, Ferguson
> included. The whole aim was to ensure that conduct on and off the park
> was befitting a professional player in this country. Unfortunately, this 
> season has seen a marked rise in the number of red cards at Tannadice 
> together with bookings which are also up. This is a worrying trend but at 
> least the players know by now how to conduct ones' self as a professional
> on the field of play.
> 
> The main point of this article is how the journalists have handled this
> situation. It has turned out to be as welcome as a Celtic fan in the Rangers
> End during an Old Firm game! The clubs' good name, a reputation preserved
> since the early 60's, has been called into question and our chairman/manager
> is also called a liar on two fronts. McLean is many things, but one thing 
> he isn't is a liar. Since he became manager, he has demanded and given 
> complete honesty from his players at all times. He has fallen out with many 
> players, accusing them of rocking the boat, but at all times he has been 
> seen to be fair and also protects a players' right to confidentiatley.

MCLEAN IS A GRUDGING WEE SOD. HE HAS BEEN SO SINCE HIS DAYS AT DENS. WHEN THE
DEES OVERLOOKED HIM FOR THE MANAGERS JOB IN THE EARLY 70'S HE LEFT DENS
SWEARING REVENGE. WHY DO YOU THINK DUNDEE ARE NOT IN THE SUPERLEAGUE? IT'S
NOTHING TO DO WITH GROUND/FINANCIAL STANDARDS AS WE ARE FINE THERE. IF IT WAS
PLAYING STANDARDS THEN WHY ARE MOTHERWELL, PARTICK AND THE EVER BORING ARABS IN
THERE. AND BEFORE I GET MAIL FROM ANY ARABS, I'D LIKE TO POINT OUT WE HAVE
SCORED A LOT MORE GOALS THAN YOU THIS SEASON.

> 
> He even put his job on the line when he resigned in 1988 because he had 
> brought shame on the club by incurring the wrath of the SFA disciplinary 
> committee. He withdrew his offer when it turned out that most Arabs pleaded
> with him to stay. For this man to publicly announce he was wrong in saying
> a bid wasn't received for Ferguson from Rangers is typical of the man and
> he deserves praise for keeping the clubs fans in the picture. Instead he
> gets harsh treatment from the media, which he has a love-hate relationship 
> with, and gets headlines like, "McLean : I'm a liar", "McLean reveals the 
> truth" from Scotlands' gutter press who are only interested in selling news
> papers rather than reporting facts. 

I WOULD AGREE WITH YOU ON THIS POINT, SCOTLAND'S, I MEAN GLASGOWS PRESS ARE
LYING, BIASED, UNINTELLINGENT SCUM. THE MYSTERIOUS STORIES LINKING BILLY DODDS,
FERGUSON, CONNOLLY ETC TO RANGERS/CELTIC ONLY SEEM TO APPEAR WHEN WE ARE
PLAYING EITHER OF THE AFOREMENTIONED TEAMS. HEARTS AND ABERDEEN ALSO SUFFER
FROM THIS.

> 
> Why didn't the same press entitle David Murrays' revelations on Saturday, 
> over a confidential matter, as "Illegal approach made", "Rangers guilty of
> poaching"? Simple, Rangers are a west coast Glasgow side, these papers are
> printed in Glasgow, therefore, since Glasgow is a big city, papers have
> to be sold and what attracts the public eye more than a juicy bit of 
> misceif making? 

THE SUNDAY POST (DC THOMSON, DUNDEE) IS AS BAD THOUGH...

> 
> Also, these papers have now made a public slur on McLeans' character by
> calling him a cheat, fibber and liar. Obviously, the Conservative Paper, 
> the Sun, is no stranger to the libel courts and McLean should sue them
> for deformation of character, but then McLean is not like the grotty 
> journalists who work for this rag and it should not surprise anyone if 
> he doesn't sue but instead tries to rescue what is left of his clubs'
> reputation.

WHAT *IS* LEFT? THE CLUB IS A LAUGHING STOCK...

> 
> Dundee United are not as big a club as Rangers but then, they've had
> over 110 years to compile their image since they were in at the start of
> the Scottish League and as such, have always been in the top division.
> United meanwhile are relatively young(formed 1910 changed name in 1923) and
> we have had to scrape through some lean times, our 1st team had to
> play a season in the Scottish Reserve league at one stage due to lack of
> funds. Rangers have never been poor financially, but they are poor morally
> since the vast bulk of their support only support the team because they
> are strictly protestant and, before Mo Johnstones' brief stay, pursued a
> course of signing and playing protestant players. Some Rangers fans will even
> travel from Dundee and the surrounding areas to watch Rangers play, strictly
> due to the fact that they are a protestant club. These fans are born and 
> bred Dundonians but because of the image of Rangers, they would rather pay 
> extra money just to see Rangers play. Celtic also have the
> same effect on Catholics, even at present when they are well below their best.

THERE ARE A HELL OF A LOT OF RANGERS FANS IN DUNDEE WHO DON'T TRAVEL. THEY ARE
THE WORST BECAUSE:

THEY BUY HOME END TICKETS FOR TAYSIDE MATCHES
THEY ARE ONLY INTERESTED IN THE RELIGIOUS ASPECT
HALF OF THESE PRICKS WOULD HAVE TROUBLR NAMING THE RANGERS TEAM!

> 
> United have never had that burden but in 80 odd years of Scottish League 
> membership, their best years came in the late seventies / early eighties 
> just after the arrival of Mr McLean and the highest their support has ever 
> been was in 1988-89 when their average attendance was nearly 13,000. Now, 
> although they share Dundees' footballing support with neighbours Dundee, in
> a city of approx  177,000 people, we should at least attract 20,000 to each
> home gate.

THIS IS ACTUALLY NOT TOO BAD. TAKE CELTIC FOR EXAMPLE. THEIR AVERAGE CROWD
NOWADAYS IS ABOUT 20.000, WHICH CONSIDERING THEY "HAVE THE MOST LOYAL SUPPORT
IN THE ETC..ETC..." OUT OF A CITY WHICH HAS A POPUALTION OF ABOUT 1,000,000 IS
REALLY QUITE POOR. IN DUNDEE WE HAVE TWO NEIGHBOURING FOOTBALL TEAMS, WHOSE
COMBINED AVERAGE IS ABOUT 12,000 (EXCLUDING CELTIC/RANGERS), ABOUT 7% OF THE
POPULATION, RANGERS AND CELTIC COMBINED ARE ABOUT 60,000 WHICH IS ABOUT 6%.


> This is lost revenue to United and a huge gain to Rangers who 
> don't really need the extra 10,000 they get from this area every week.
> This is what fundamentally is wrong with Scottish Football, greed, fans
> hungrey for success, and bigotry. I do not wish to say that all fans aren't
> bigotted but consider this..........................
> 
> If most people in Scotland are affected by religous bigotry, then how
> can our refs be impartial when given the choice, they may favour one
> side more than the other.

KEVIN O'DONNELL ADMITTED THIS AFTER A TESTIMONIAL DINNER FOR BILLY MCNEILL OR
SOMEONE, HE HAS NOW RETIRED BUT SHOWING HIS TRUE COLOURS, HE ADMITTED HE WAS A
LIFELONG CELTIC FAN. HE 'HANDLED' THE CELTIC HEARTS CUP GAME IN 89, WHERE TWO
HEARTS PLAYERS WERE SENT OFF AND CELTIC GOT A DODGY PENALTY, AND ALSO THE
DUNDEE-CELTIC GAME AT DENS IN '88 WHERE HE LET MCSTAY OFF FOR PUNCHING RAFFERTY
AND LET AN OFFSIDE MCAVENNIE SCORE THE WINNER IN INJURY TIME

> If these decisions were restricted to even one
> advantageous decisions to that side during every game(i.e. they score from
> the dispute) and this is multiplied by the number of home league games we 
> play, it is easy to see that 20 odd points per season could be accumulated.
> It is easy to see that this maybe influential to a clubs' final league 
> position. Hard men are part and parcel of the game but they should not
> go out to cripple the oppositions' players (ala Vinnie Jones, John Brown,
> Craig Leven).

I WOULDN'T CLASS LEVEIN HERE AS HE IS A MORE SKILFUL, CLASSY PLAYER THANTHE
OTHERS.

> If we want to we can get rid of many of our problems by 
> banning sine die anyone found of delibarate foul play or constant
> vicious tackling. Hackers have no place in the modern game and should
> be kicked out. Agents are another specisis to have evolved during the
> lifespan of the game, these people should be castrated at birth since they
> offer nothing but trouble. They claim to represent the players' interests, 
> but we have Tony Higgins mob to do that(SPFA). If most players realised
> how much an agent can earn off them, they would sack them on the spot
> and start to recover the real meaning of the game. 
> 
> Pele would weep if he saw the state of the game and
> the manner in which it is played in Scotland. It is like a war, it is after
> all only a game but some people would prefer it if it was a war.
> 
> Being an Arab(i.e. Dundee United supporter) you may think this view
> is kind of baised and fellow Arabs may not agree with me but freedom of
> speech is central to a free society, if you don't like what I say or
> write, then thats' fine by me. I love constructive arguments but I cannot
> condone some of the language which has been directed at myself during my time
> on the r.s.s. newsgroup. As I say, Sticks and Stones may break my bones but
> names will never hurt me. 
> 
> 
> Graeme Wright
> at Dundee Institute of Technology
> (formerly Bell Street Tech)
> Bell Street
> Dundee
> 
> e-mail : cbs%uk.co.mcsbc2gw
> News   : mcsbc2gw@d.c.t.
> 
> "Jim McLeans : Loyal Barmy Army!"
> 
> and Remember : 
> 
> "Connecting yourself to 240 Volts AC is a great ice breaker at parties!!!"
> 
-- 


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John B at the DIT                                                \\
<e-mail : mcsdc1jpb@dct.ac.uk.                                     \\
FORZA MILAN!!!   FORZA DUNDEE!!!   FORZA SAO PAULO!!!   FORZA PSV!!! \\
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