HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: velde2@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Francois Velde)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: So exactly what's wrong with Bolero, anyway?
Date: 8 Jan 1993 15:59:19 -0500
Organization: Homewood Academic Computing, Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore, Md, USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu

In article <43192@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> chen@cs.ucsd.edu (Jim Ron Chen) writes:
>
>Glad to see a posting on "what's right" instead of "what's wrong"!
>One delightful use of the piece is in the animated Italian film 
>"Allegro Non Troppo", if anyone hasn't seen it.

Yes!! It almost reconciled me with the Bolero :-)

All "warhorses" as someone called them, or old saws, become so tiresome
to me that I need some special event or occasion to bring about a 
reconciliation.  What did it for the 4 Seasons was a concert by the
Academy of Ancient Music, 5 years ago, under the stars in the courtyard
of the old Hospital in Beaune. 

For Pachebel's Canon, it was the Cambrige Buskers :-)


-- 

	Francois Velde
From: ucap22w@ucl.ac.uk (Martin S T Watts)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: There's nothing wrong with Bolero
Date: 12 Jan 93 17:44:45 GMT
Organization: Bloomsbury Computing Consortium

roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig) writes:

>In article <106751@bu.edu> spacefox@acs.bu.edu (Godfrey Degamo) writes:

>>I don't usually like it when
>>"classical" music is used in movies, I tend to associate it with the
>>movie and all it's emotional forms and this "pollutes" its musical
>>"purity."  

>Relax -- it never had it.  People associate things with pieces no
>matter what you do.  Music is like that.

Yes, but I think it's possible these "things" can still have a detrimental 
effect on the music. I don't like to have any associations too explicit when
I'm listening to a piece of music, or else it distracts me. I can sympathise
with Godfrey there, although I wouldn't let it worry me too much in the case
of Bolero.

>>     Well, before this turns out to be a totally irrelevant post, let
>>me try and save it.  What other "classical" pieces you know of that
>>have been "tainted" by movies?

I thought when I saw "A Clockwork Orange" that I would never be able to listen
to Beethoven's 9th Symphony again without rather unpleasant associations but,
funnily, I've never had that problem; so there's a superb example of a piece
that *hasn't* been tainted by a film (movie/movy?). I think it's probably to 
do with the fact that I never really grasped its significance when I saw the
film in the first place, and possibly that the music is composed, so to speak,
of rather stronger (more profound) stuff. *Does* anybody have recurrent
nightmares now, associated with a bit of the ol' Ludwig Van?

Martin Watts.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: pkbockus@gsbphd.uchicago.edu (Keith Bockus)
Subject: Re: Tower Records
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 21:25:19 GMT

rika@informix.com (Rika Tsitsinia) writes:

>In article <1993Jan8.072759.8437@news.acns.nwu.edu> kelsey@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (chris kelsey) writes:
>>and if your local tower
>>is like the one in chicago, they spent the month of december marking *UP*
>>most of the premium disks by $1 - $2.

>	This has definitely _not_ been my experience with Tower in
>    both San Francisco/Bay area and New York city.

>	The sales are real; they don't mark up anything the previous
>    month in order to put it on "sale" today. 

Chris is right about the Tower here in Chicago.  They marked
up most of their premium label stuff by $2 during december;
and now have $3 off the new price.  Bully.  I suppose these disks  
are as cheap as you'll ever see  at tower again, but it takes some
of the fun out....

As a side note, it was mostly the Harmonia Mundi USA stuff that
went up... now riding at around $19 a disk.  Just $3.50 short
of what Rene Goiffon thinks they "should" cost....

Keith
 
 
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: brad@buck.viewlogic.com (Bradford Kellogg)
Subject: Re: So exactly what's wrong with Bolero, anyway?
Originator: brad@buck
Organization: Viewlogic Systems, Inc.
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 18:36:17 GMT


In article <1993Jan8.045004.15896@noose.ecn.purdue.edu>, lungtt@gus.ecn.purdue.edu (Terence T. Lung) writes:
|> >In article <C0ILLv.EsB@world.std.com> kaya@world.std.com (Kaya Bekiroglu) writes:
|> >>
|> >>Pardon my ignorance of classical music, but what is wrong with
|> >>Bolero?  I have heard only a portion of it, and it sounds alright
|> >>by me.. I happen to like it.
|> 
|> I think the question is where does it start and where does it end?
|> If you've heard a portion of it, you've heard all of it.
|> You can take the same portion and play with the volume and you've done it.
|> 
Listen to it all the way through. Do you really hear no difference? Maybe it 
doesn't display musical development according to Hoyle, but I don't think Ravel
was expecting the Spanish Inquisition...

It is sort of pre-minimalist minimalism, and by that I mean it does not conform 
to any sort of expected form, written at a time when such things were mostly 
unheard of. So, it was ahead of its time! :-)

It does repeat the same rhythmic pattern throughout, and has only a couple 
of similar themes, which are also repeated throughout. However, as with some 
of the better minimalist music today, it does not stay the same throughout. 
It is forever changing with each repetition, and not just in volume. The 
instrument(s) that play(s) the themes keep changing, and more instruments 
are continuously added as it goes along, changing texture and dynamic range.

Okay, you don't have to like it. Admittedly, it has the dubious distinction 
of being overplayed, particularly in fragments, which tends to diminish any 
piece of music. But personally, I like it, and I find it far less boring than 
a number of pundit-promoted pieces. I think it's good to hear it all the way 
through every year or so, but not much more often than that.

Cheers,

- BK
From: knotts@hpl-opus.hpl.hp.com (Tom Knotts)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 22:02:18 GMT
Subject: Re: Favourite Organ Work Survey
Organization: HP Labs, High Speed Electronics Dept., Palo Alto, CA
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical

In rec.music.classical, syliao@athena.mit.edu (Stan Yi-Huang Liao) writes:

> mrapple@quack.sac.ca.us (Nick Sayer) writes:
> > ObOrgan: Tochata & Fugue in D minor, JSB. The
> > famous one. Overused, but undeniably excellent.
> 
> There are some disputes on the authenticity of BWV 565.  Is there a
> convincing proof/disproof on this matter?
> 

There is no serious dispute that JSB was the author. There has been talk
recently that the work was originally written by JSB for the violin,
then later transcribed by JSB to the organ. I think this is quite
plausible.

Tom

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: apter@fid.morgan.com (Steve Apter)
Subject: Re: Do recordings of the following pieces exist?
Organization: Morgan Stanley & Co., New York, NY
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 15:59:20 GMT

In article <1993Jan8.221904.4017@spang.Camosun.BC.CA> dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker) writes:
>judd@wilkinson.cs.colorado.edu (Stephen Judd) writes:
>: Are there some good recordings of the following:
>: 	Scubert
>
>Never heard of him (her?) :-)
>[....]
>: 	Brahms (Did I see correctly that people seriously dismiss Brahms
>: 		as a composer?  Wow.  And please don't post responding
>: 		to this comment!  Send email!)
>: 		
>: 		Sonatas, Op. 78, Op. 100, Op. 108
>
>I particularly like the recording of the sonatas by Kremer and
>Afanassiou (is that right?) on DG coupled with the Busoni #2. I am
>aware that this is a minority opinion, and that they spread to 2 disks
>because they take them so slowly, but the playing has a great beauty
>and intensity which I find irresistable. And I *love* the Busoni.


Count me in to that minority.  Kremer is wonderful, but Afanassiev is
simply remarkable.  Afannasiev's Schubert D.960 (ECM) and the complete
Beethoven Bagatelles (Denon) are among my favorite piano recordings.
There is rumored to be a complete Well-tempered Clavier on tape.  Now
*that* must be something.


>
>--
>Real:  Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept., Camosun College, Victoria B.C.
>Email: (dbarker@spang.camosun.bc.ca)
>Phone: +1 604 370 4452
From: jmadow@juliet.caltech.edu (Madow, Jessica)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: French Baroque HARPSICHORD Music
Date: 10 Jan 1993 17:17 PST
Organization: California Institute of Technology
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: juliet.caltech.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

In article <93007.094918RHASKINS@UMAB.BITNET>, Robert Haskins <RHASKINS@UMAB.BITNET> writes...
> 
>jmadow@juliet.caltech.edu (Madow, Jessica) writes:
> 
>> In article <1993Jan6.094055.19160@news.acns.nwu.edu>
>>    kelsey@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (chris kelsey) writes:
>>
>> >Louis isn't as interesting as Francois, but for an economical and pleasant
>> >introduction:  ....
>>
>> Francois couldn't hold a torch to Louis Couperin in the unmeasured repertory.
>> Sheer brilliance there!
> 
>Where are there unmeasured pieces by Francois?  I didn't know he wrote any.
> 
>Bob

Precisely my point!  I had not meant to imply that he (Francois) wrote
any, (and pardon me if I did), but instead was pointing out one genre in
which Louis left outstanding contributions and Francois left none (quite
possibly because he mistrusted public ability).  Adapting and _notating_
improvisatory freedom with only a bunch of whole notes and slurs is EXTREMELY
interesting stuff, to some of us.  Also interesting is the expressive power
of his harmonic language.

I am curious why the original poster thinks Louis is less interesting.


     Jessica

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: mikulska@crux.Princeton.EDU (Margaret Mikulska)
Subject: Re: So exactly what's wrong with Bolero, anyway?
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: mikulska@astro.princeton.edu (Margaret Mikulska)
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 19:57:20 GMT

In article <C0KEM6.7HK@panix.com> mls@panix.com (Michael Siemon) writes:
>In article <1993Jan8.195201.20074@Princeton.EDU> mikulska@astro.princeton.edu
>(Margaret Mikulska) writes:
>
>>of course "Bolero" is a piece with a very definite beginning and end.
>
>But does it have a *middle*???? (note: I rather like Bolero)

Yes.  It consists _mostly_ of its middle.

-Margaret

(Note: I, too, rather like it.)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: kldawkin@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Kiwi)
Subject: Re: Hvorostovsky and Ainsley (was Re: My Christmas CDs)
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 16:58:16 GMT

In article <C0p2pM.LpL@news.udel.edu> conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad) writes:
>In article <215190004@hpcvra.cv.hp.com> chrisr@hpcvra.cv.hp.com (Chris Robson) writes:
>
>>Can anyone recommend any recorded works of John Mark Ainsley? I heard him
>>sing in the Messiah (Andrew Parrott & LCO(?)) at the 91 Bath Festival and
>>I was totally captivated. Any recommendations?
>
>He's recorded some Handel.  "Saul" comes to mind, though I may have it
>mixed up with another.
>

How about : Handel, Acis & Galatea,
            John Mark Ainsley, Claron McFadden, Rogers Covey-Crump,
	    Michael George, King's Consort.

	or: Great Baroque Arias Vol. 1
	    John Mark Ainsley, Gillian Fisher, James Bowman, Michael George

And there are more...

Cheers.

Kyle.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: altinbay@netcom.com (John Altinbay)
Subject: Re: Stockhold Philharmonic Orchestra
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 00:44:06 GMT

>In article <1993Jan8.011934.19008@spang.Camosun.BC.CA> dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker) writes:
>>
>>What is the serial number of this disc Steve? You quote 421/424 above
>>- but that only covers 4 discs, not 8.
>

Oddly enough, the numbers do cover 8 discs.  There is an A and a B for
each of these numbers!  I own a copy, too.  Well worth having, and
a steal at the price!

-- 
John Altinbay   -   altinbay@netcom.com
===============================================================
There's a spirit that guides me, a light that shines for me
My life is worth the living, I don't need to see the end.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical,ny.general,soc.culture.italian
From: IMAGING.CLUB@OFFICE.WANG.COM ("Imaging Club")
Subject: New York Times Says Cecilia Bartoli Best Mezzo in 1992
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 18:01:33 GMT

                      The New York Times
                     Classical Music 1992

THE BEST MEZZO BY HALF - The young Italian mezzo-soprano Cecilia
Bartoli dazzled with Rossini at the Mostly Mozart Festival.  She
is the world's great new discovery.

BEST SINGLE-HANDED CELEBRATION OF THE ROSSINI FESTIVAL - Cecilia
Bartoli showed that musicality, intelligence and a seductively
pure tone can still be found, and proved enough of an illusionist
to make a full evening of Rossini sound substantial.

Michael.Willett@OFFICE.Wang.com
From: mgresham@dscatl.UUCP (Mark Gresham)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Mozart, Tourettes and Spelling.
Date: 8 Jan 93 06:35:55 GMT
Reply-To: mgresham@dscatl.UUCP (Mark Gresham)
Organization: Digital Systems Co,  Atlanta, Ga

In article <1993Jan6.024458.20162@Princeton.EDU> roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig) writes:
>b) What evidence as to the involuntary nature of Mozart's obscene speech
>exists?  I can think of no other behavior on his part that would suggest
>Tourette's Syndrome.

The symptoms of an extreme case of Tourette's would have prevented
Mozart from being much of a success as a concertizing pianist;
milder symptoms would have interfered in any case.  It would only
be conceivable if the symptoms disappeared while performing (a la
Mel Tillis and his stuttering).  But with Tourette's, that would
be highly unlikely.

Cheers,

--Mark Gresham
dscatl!mgresham@gatech.edu
=====

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: mvalinis@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Michael J Valinis)
Subject: 3 B's (was Re: Brucker; was Re; Best finale......)
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 05:52:40 GMT

Hey, folks!!!  Doesn't anyone in this group recognize sarcasm when they read 
it?  I really DO know who the 3 B's were.  Actually I should say "are" instead 
of "were", since as I understand it, the 3 B's originally were Bach, Beethoven 
and Berlioz.  Well, at least we have that one correct now.  Please, don't let 
this be the start of another Brahms-bashing thread;  that one was pretty well 
worked over here a while back, and no matter what any of you write about 
Brahms, his music will still be just as great when you get finished. :-)
-- 
*>   Michael J. Valinis   -=+<*>+=-   mvalinis@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu   <*
*>=>  "Music is your own experience, your thoughts, your wisdom. If you  <=<*
*>+>=> don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." -Charlie Parker <=<+<*
*>=>+>=>+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+<=<+<=<*
From: mrad@ugcs.caltech.edu (Michael Radford)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Best CD of Mussorgsky "Pictures ..."
Date: 10 Jan 1993 02:12:07 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: molest.ugcs.caltech.edu

acid+@cs.cmu.edu (Christopher Colby) writes:
>Finally, does
>Bronfman stick to the letter of the score?  (Pletnev does not.)

People keep complaining about Pletnev's changes, but as far as I know, the 
only differences are the omission of one of the Promenades and a few notes
in the Heroes' Gate.  What does he do that is so horrible?


Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: mudws@sunvis1.vislab.olemiss.edu (David Warren Steel)
Subject: Re: Louis Couperin
Organization: Mississippi State University
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 22:04:26 GMT

In <f2+3vjj@rpi.edu> mccomt@aix.rpi.edu (Todd Michel McComb) writes:

>The New Grove states that Francois Couperin specifically abstained from
>writing unmeasured pieces because he did not have confidence in his ability
>for the genre.  I do not recall the exact citation, but it is rather
>interesting that the unmeasured genre fell out of favor due to a lack of
>confidence rather than a lack of interest.

  Only Louis Couperin wrote preludes with NO distinction in note-values;
had he published his preludes, i would doubtless have offered the player
*some* clues, as did all the other French composers of unmeasured preludes,
e.g. Clerambault, La Guerre, Rameau.  I expect that Francois DID write
unmeasured preludes.  Since he published them in a beginners' instruction
book (L'Art de toucher) he expressed them in measured notation (Nos. 1, 2,
4, and 5).  The other four preludes in the set are marked mesure,
indicating that they, unlike the four just mentioned, are to be played
in rhythm.

  I agree that the unmeasured prelude has a peculiar charm, and that 
Louis Couperin was the undisputed master of the form.  Indeed, I enjoy
Louis's works at least as much as those of his nephew--the dance rhythms
are fresher, the harmonies more piquant.  We still tend to have a bias
in favor of the 18c. over the 17c.  

  By the way, does anyone have any news on the organ works of Louis
Couperin?  Most are in a manuscript owned by Guy Oldham, who promised
to bring them out YEARS ago.  A few were recorded, and I heard Oldham
play some more in concert.  These are a *major* find, and I can hardly
wait!  

Warren Steel                      mudws@sunvis1.vislab.olemiss.edu
University of Mississippi    Department of Music     (601)232-5183
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical,rec.music.jazz,rec.music.misc
From: potoole@maths.tcd.ie (Peter O'Toole)
Subject: Re: CARTOON MUSIC! HELP AND A CHALLENGE
Organization: Dept. of Maths, Trinity College, Dublin, Ireland.
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 11:22:22 GMT

In article <1993Jan7.005733.1391@Princeton.EDU> shari@phoenix.Princeton.EDU, shari@clarity.princeton.edu (Shari L. Landes) writes:
>music.  CARTOON music.  I'm sure I recognized these tunes as
>background-type music for the 'toons, Warner Bros circa 1930-1940.
>I do know that one person was the originator and recorder of these tunes.

I've been a fan of cartoon/silent-movie music for years. What I'm really
curious about is the stuff used in Tom&Jerry cartoons. Sometimes we hear
Tom playing the piano, and whoever it was in the studio was really amazing.
My favourite comes from one called ( I think ) "Viennese mouse" or the like.
In it Tom plays some of the virtuoso Strauss paraphrases by Godowsky and
Schulz-Evler. The performances were to my taste. Anyone know who played them?

Peter O'Toole,
Trinity College Dublin.

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: lungtt@gus.ecn.purdue.edu (Terence T. Lung)
Subject: Re: SURVEY: FAVORITE PIANO CONCERTO
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 05:01:08 GMT

In article <1983@spam.ua.oz> ahanysz@spam.ua.oz (Alexander Hanysz) writes:
>zorro@picasso.ocis.temple.edu (John Grabowski) writes:
>                                                      `
>> I must admit I'm starting to enjoy these "Greatest All-Time" and "Favorite"
>> threads, so I'm starting another one.  :-)   The question is, What is your
>> favorite piano concerto?

>I'm a pianist, so I'm biased.  Chopin E minor...
I'm not, but I'm biased having accompanied in orchestras.  Liszt #1.

>> And a very important sub-question: What's your favorite *Beethoven* piano
>> concerto?
>
>The fourth.
The third

>								Alex.
            Terence
From: bcc@tools8teradata.com (Brian Cantin)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Ravel
Date: 7 Jan 93 20:01:53 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: NCR/Teradata Business Unit

The Reiner/CSO version of Rhapsodie Espangol is spectacular.  The Reiner version is even
 better than the fine performances conducted by Monteux and Dutoit.
Reiner gets just the right combination of atmosphere and whip lash orchestral execution out
of the Chicago Symhony.  The rest of the disc is on the same (or nearly the same) lofty level.
The recorded sound is good.

In article <C0G2C2.H7o@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>, smitra@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Sami Mitra) writes:
|> Someone suggested some piano music of Ravel's played by
|> Alicia de laRocha(sp?). For a further exposure to Ravel's
|> brilliance I suggest his "Gaspard de la Nuit", especially
|> as played by Ivo Pogorelich. Simply awesome!
|> 
|> As for more of Ravel's orchestral compositions, and this time
|> his own original, try his ballet "Daphnes et Chloe". The version
|> on London conducted by Dutoit is wonderful
|>  
|> I've read some rather nice things about a recent rerelease of
|> some of Ravel's orchestral pieces conducted by Reiner on the
|> RCA/BMG label. Does anyone have any nice, or otherwise, opinions
|> on this reissue?
|> 
|> 
|> Sami Mitra

-- 
Brian Cantin
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical,rec.music.jazz,rec.music.misc
From: jwenger@ulci06.unil.ch ()
Subject: Re: Q: Inbal's Mahler
Keywords: Mahler, Inbal
Reply-To: jwenger@ulci06.unil.ch ()
Organization: University of Lausanne - CH (Switzerland)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 14:07:30 GMT


In article <C0FL15.KD@sci.kun.nl>, pieterh@sci.kun.nl (Peter Herweijer) writes:
>
|>I can get Eliahu(sp?) Inbal's discs of Mahler symphonies
|>on Denon very cheap. Now I've heard very little about these (though
|>what I've heard is not negative) and I wondered if there are any
|>net.people that can give me their opinion about these versions. Are
|>they any good? How do they compare, say, to the likes of Horenstein
|>Walter Klemperer and Barbirolli?
|>
|>Thank you very much for your time.
|>
|>Peter Herweijer
|>pieterh@sci.kun.nl
|>

Most reviewers consider Inbal's complete Mahler symphonies to be one of
the best "modern" version. If you can get them cheap, do not  hesitate.
As for the "old" versions, Walter and Horenstein are, IMHO, the most
recommendable (no complete cycle, here).
Among the "intermediate" versions (late '60s, early '70s), I like Kubelik
or Abravanel, but I prefer Bernstein.
Do not forget that each conductor has it foibles, and that no integral is
perfect.

---------------
Jacques C. Wenger, University of Lausanne, Switzerland
jwenger@ulys.unil.ch
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical,ne.general,bit.listserv.allmusic