From: kinsman@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca (Aphoriel/Kinsman)
Subject: Re: God Conference on Player's Rights
Organization: University of New Brunswick
Distribution: rec.games.mud, rec.games.mud.lp, rec.games.mud.misc
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 12:25:13 GMT

In article <C0H3wI.3Ex@ais.org> jgm@ais.org (jim miller) writes:
>
>
>kinsman@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca (Aphoriel/Kinsman) writes:
>
>>In article <C0GHpJ.M5M@ais.org> jgm@ais.org (jim miller) writes:
>>>This is supposed to be a universal statement of ethical policy?  Everyone
>>>who wants to must have an equal voice.  Mud maintainers have not been
>>>endowed with the right to be our delegates in this matter, just because
>>>they ftp'ed some files and let us access some ports on their machines.
>>>
>>
>>Dd
>>Someone needs to be delegates, otherwise this conference would become
>>unwieldly.  A whole slew of people with an equal voice becomes chaos
>>in they are all put in the same place.  This conference needs to be organized
>>to be effective, and to be organized authority is required.  Mud maintainers
>>seem to have been selected as default authority figures.  I think it is a
>>reasonable choice: they do perform a good deal of work to produce and maintain
>>a MUD (you are glossing over their efforts with your remark about ftp and 
>>port access) and would be in the best position to note and deal with matters
>>of human rights enforcment and violation.
>
>
>Your project is already self-defeating.  You desire to bring maintainers
>to recognize a set of ethical standards which are, in effect, curbs
>on their behavior, and you plan to bring this about in a forum where
>that small, juxtaposed group holds the parliamentary power.
>
>You see already in this thread responses from several mud maintainers,
>and in them, the pathology of the problem that you're trying to
>solve.  Many of them think they can do what they damn well please,
>and will continue to hold this comfortable belief, scoffing at
>your attempts as impractical, or unimplementable, or unnecessary,
>or inconvenient, or, the best one of all, without right.  That
>word again.  You simply cannot produce a forceful document that is
>influenced by the type of established "party line" of maintainers
>who post to this newsgroup, and that's almost certainly what you're
>going to get.
>

You seem very pessimistic about the nature of the maintainers, if you think
that they would view ethics as a curb on their behaviour.  Yes, some
maintainers would hold that 'comfortable belief' of 'it`s their mud';
this is part of what the conference is trying to address...
Whether a small, juxtaposed group or a large mass, ethics remain the same
and it's likely that the same results would be brought about.  And to
give the individuals who maintain a forum to discuss together what other
players have spoken concerns about.  This is not my project; it is
John Miller's project.  He has idealistic views about what can be done for
ethical standards on MUDing, and I too agree it can be a good thing.
>Throw it out to the public.  This is essentially a people's
>fight.  Let it be discussed and reworked in the open over a
>period of time.  Let the maintainers from whom you've gathered
>support air their views here (which you are correct to point
>out they are already doing).  Let no one's views be summarized
>or paraphrased or filtered by members of this one particular
>group.
>
There is no reason both can't be done. Let's stop discussing whether this
forum will be maintainer-only or not. Rather in this forum here we can
begin the actual process of discussion rather than argue whether some
forum somewhere is right fair or not.  This conference will not etch
anything in stone because nothing can ever be etched in stone; everything
will change with need. 

It seems foolish to me that an effort to produce something good from nothing
would be criticised by many as being a danger to MUDding.. everyone seems
to think the maintainers will all elect to clamp the players in chains if
god forbid, they were left alone to chat without the players to defend
themselves...

-Aphoriel/Kinsman
-Sean Givan
>-jim
>
>-- 
>* My 3 rules for meeting women *
>1.  Seek simple women with common sense and a capacity for commitment.
>2.  Stay away from women entangled in *any* way with another man.  Apply
>    the word "entangle" broadly, and don't let them fool you.


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