HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rhaar@albert.cs.gmr.com (Bob Haar)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Info Request: Isle Royal Michigan
Date: 26 Aug 92 13:32:16 GMT
Reply-To: rhaar@albert.cs.gmr.com
Organization: G.M. Research Labs

In article 19665@drutx.ATT.COM, rnt@drutx.ATT.COM (Bob Thomas) writes:
|>
|>
|>--
|>I just went to Isle Royale on my honeymoon.  We only stayed
|>for the day but I can answer some of your questions:
|>
|>	* Who runs the park? U.S. parks? State of Michigan?
|>		Phone numbers for the organization that runs it
|> 
|>The National Park Service.  Try calling their headquarters here 
|>in Denver, listed under the Dept. of Interior, or write to the chamber
|>of commerce in Grand Portage, MN or Houghton, MI. 
|>

try:
	Isle Royale National Park
	87 North Ripley Street
	Houghton, MI 49931
	(906) 482-3310

|>	* Any info regarding backpacking on the island.
|>		Personal experiences
|>		Good places etc...
|>

If you have access to old issues of Backpacker magazine, they had an
article on Isle Royale about 6 months to a year ago.



---
	Robert Haar               InterNet : rhaar@gmr.com 
	Computer Science Dept., G.M. Research Laboratories
DISCLAIMER: Unless indicated otherwise, everything in this note is
personal opinion, not an official statement of General Motors Corp.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: No dogs in Natl Parks
From: cworth@OAVAX.CSUCHICO.EDU (CHUCK WORTH)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 21:04:32 GMT
Reply-To: cworth@OAVAX.CSUCHICO.EDU
 <1992Aug27.155231.17337@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov>,<1992Aug27.134809.7590@walter.cray.com>
Distribution: usa
Organization: California State University, Chico

>In article: nancy@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov (Nancy Feagans) writes:
>
> He was out alone, with his two hunting dogs.  The dogs suffered some
> severely cut pads from going over shale.  The guy couldn't figure out
> how to get them out, so he shot them.  True story.
> 
 I had pretty much the same thing happen while doing some fairly aggressive
 cross-country on borken granite in the southern Sierra Nevada Mts.  We laid
 up at a lake for a couple of days and then walked out on trails (avoiding
 a shorter but rockier cross country stretch).  I have since been a little
 ashamed of myself for not having paid more attention to the conditions'
 effects upon my dog.  Have easily avoided the problem since (run your dog
 some on asphalt to toughen their pads, avoid extended X-country on fractured
 rock, carry a first aid kit.)  Then (and now) I've been ready to cache my gear
 and carry out my dog if necessary (a good dog is easily worth five times my
 gear--but don't tell my dog that, I don't want her getting a swelled head.)
                     Chuck
                     (who doesn't take his dog where she's not allowed,
                      and does take her anywhere else)

**********************************************************
 Chuck Worth            California State University, Chico
 CWORTH@OAVAX.CSUCHICO.EDU
From: kklenk@beethoven.helios.nd.edu (kevin klenk)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: MSR filter (was: Water treatment article from Am J Pub)
Date: 2 Sep 92 20:49:29 GMT
Reply-To: kklenk@beethoven.helios.nd.edu (kevin klenk)
Organization: Univ. of Notre Dame

> The biggest drawback [to the PUR filter] so far:  you can't get the
> filter+carbon cartridge in the sack as one unit.  Design error.

The "design error" no longer exists.  I purchased a new PUR filter and it
comes with a larger sack to accommodate the add-on carbon filter attachment.

So far I have no complaints with the unit, except that it is easy to
overtighten the screw-on carbon filter sometimes making it difficult to disassemble the unit after a trip.

Regards,

Kevin
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: rowlan@krazny.mcs.anl.gov (John Rowlan)
Subject: No More Dogs in them Natl Parks
Organization: Argonne National Laboratory, Chicago, Illinois
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 19:41:08 GMT

>|Regarding dogs in the backcountry.....

Well after almost two weeks of heated discussion on why Lassie should or
shouldn't be allowed in the backcountry, and what the implications will or
won't be (I've read about shooting dogs, ice picking dogs, etc.), I can't help
but point out the following:

Irregardless of justification, laws and personal opinion, this thread points
out the ever increasing problem that we all have been encountering far too
often over the past few decades: Too great of a demand on too few resources.

We will probably get nowhere (not that we need get anywhere, of course)
continually discussing the virtuals and rights of people bringing pets into
the back country.  In fact, if you extrapolate the underlying topics then the
natural progression for this discussion is probably something along the lines
of population control, education, and the diminishing of the dichotamy between
the wealthy and the poor across the world.  Jacque Cousteau mentioned all this
at the recent Rio conference; and of course people like Abbey, Muir and Adams
have beleagured the population with this talk for years with little results
(call me a pesimist).

In the end, people seem to do just what they want anyway.  Often at the cost
of the environment or other people's enjoyment.  When all that's left are
shopping malls, dogs, and McDonalds perhaps we'll be sorry.








Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: wawood@ab29.larc.nasa.gov (William A. Wood)
Subject: Wy. and Mt. peaks
Keywords: Wind R., GTNP, GNP
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA  USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 14:45:45 GMT

I have most of Sept. off and will be travelling out west.  I was wondering if
anyone on the net had any experience with the following 5 peaks.
I am not looking for route descriptions but rather if anyone had tried
these routes and liked/disliked them, thought about trying them while
hiking by, or tried an alternative they thought was more interesting.
I would be interested in any comments/discussion.
Either e-mail or post.  If anyone wants copies of the info I receive on any
of the peaks let me know.  I can also e-mail my experiences on specific
routes when I return to my computer, just let me know your address.
I will be solo on the trip but if anyone will be in these areas in the
next month I would not mind teaming up, just send an e-mail note.

The routes:
Wind River Range:
Wind River Peak from east-northeast "face", or from glacier to north.
Little El Capitan approached from the north.

Grand Teton NP:
The Jaw via glacier to north-northeast, reached from paintbrush canyon.

Glacier NP (US):
Kintla Peak from south ridge reached from Agassiz glacier.
Vulture Peak from Two Ocean glacier.

Thanks,
Bill Wood       w.a.wood@larc.nasa.gov  or  wawood@ab00.larc.nasa.gov
From: stanford@spark (Adam Stanford)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Top notch outdoor gear in SF?
Date: 3 Sep 1992 15:45:17 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: spark.berkeley.edu

Besides the ones listed by Marc Whitney, there is good TNF
outlet store in Berkeley near the REI store, just off of
Gilman.  Big selection on bags, packs and clothing at often
good prices.

-Adam Stanford
From: okeefe@cs.Buffalo.EDU (Paul O'Keefe)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Yosemite: how tight are overnight permits?
Keywords: Yosemite, permits
Date: 24 Aug 92 00:20:12 GMT
Organization: State University of New York at Buffalo/Comp Sci
Originator: okeefe@dubhe.cs.buffalo.edu



I realize that Yosemite is an extremely popular destination
and this is one of the busiest time of the year, but ...

I'm planning on backpacking in Yosemite during mid-week either
Aug 31-Sep 4 or Sep 8-11.

Questions:

1) How tight are overnight permits during mid-week?

2) Are permits allotted on a park-wide basis or area-by-area.

3) Is a pass gotten at Tenaya Lake good in Yosemite Valley?

4) Am I correct in assuming that I should have no trouble
   once Labor Day has passed?

-Paul O'Keefe
From: bozek@ecs.umass.edu
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Any regulations about dogs for Mt. Washington?
Date: 2 Sep 92 12:16:08 GMT

     This weekend we are going to Mt Washington and hiking 
through Tuckermans Ravine. I don't know if the area is a
state or Nat. forest. 
     The question is can we bring Sippy with out anybody
jumping on our backs? She is part of the family.

David Bozek    bozek@umaecs.edu

Mechanical Engineering
Univ of Massachusetts-Amherst
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: jahn@guinness.Idbsu.EDU (Greg Jahn)
Subject: Re: No dogs in Natl Parks
Reply-To: jahn@guinness.idbsu.edu
Organization: BSU - Data Center
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 16:36:32 GMT

In article <1992Aug21.133411.18208@hemlock.cray.com>,
 gbt@cray.com (Greg Titus) writes:
|>In article <1992Aug21.175840.964@eos.arc.nasa.gov>
|>dencisco@eos.arc.nasa.gov (David Paul Encisco) writes:
|>>
|>>With all the National Forest Land you shouldn't be too hard press
|>>to find someplace to pack with your dog. You could probably take
|>>a cow into the National Forest if you wanted.
|>
|>Not necessary, at least in New Mexico (and, I suspect, everywhere
|>else).  Around here the National Forests come pre-cowed for your
|>convenience.
|>

Heck, I got 'em coming on my land and sh&^$ing in my neighbor's
garden.  A warning to the mountain bikers: It's my understanding
that if you accidentally kill one while screaming down a hiking
trail that you'll have to pay the rancher for the cow. :)

--
Greg Jahn, Boise State Univ.|"In this selfish age, public-spirited
/ jahn@guinness.idbsu.edu / | acts were left to the individual, and
/ dosjahn@idbsu.bitnet    / | what could the individual do on his
/ (208)385-3891.thephone  / | own?"        - Adolfo Bioy Casares


Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: vaisey@cs.sfu.ca (Jacques Vaisey)
Subject: Re: No dogs in Natl Parks
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C. Canada
Date: 26 Aug 92 09:00:31

>>>>> On 25 Aug 92 13:14:41 CDT, dadams@cray.com (David Adams) said:

David> The problem is not that people have dogs, or that they want to bring them
David> to any specific place, backcountry, country, or city, but the problem
David> occurs when dog owners have unrealistic ideas about what they sould
David> let their dog do.

Maybe the real problem is that people are unrealistic about what they
should let themselves do. In my opinion, people cause far more damage than
dogs to the backcountry (myself and other newsgroup readers excepted).
Also, lets not be hypocritical. Those really concerned about the
preservation of wilderness should be lobbying for both people and dogs to
be restricted to controlled areas of the parks. Wilderness and humans just
don't mix.



-- 
Jacques Vaisey              |     email -> vaisey@cs.sfu.ca
School of Eng. Science      |     phone -> (604) 291-3818
Simon Fraser Univ.          |       fax -> (604) 291-4951
Burnaby, British Columbia
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: geraghty@emba-news.uvm.edu.UUCP (Kevin M Geraghty)
Subject: Re: Pronghorns != Antelope
Originator: geraghty@griffin
Organization: University of Vermont -- Division of EMBA Computer Facility
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 19:10:20 GMT

From article <mwan=1b@lynx.unm.edu>, by ee5391aa@triton.unm.edu (Duke McMullan n5gax):
> Pronghorns, aka "prarie goats" and "antelope" or "American antelope" are off in
> an entire family all to themselves, Antilocapridae.  Of the several genera of
> critters dubbed "antelope", all others are bovids, grouped with cattle, sheep,
> goats, etc.
> 
> Several genera of Antilocaprids are known from the fossil record; only _Antilo-
> capra_americana_ (these similar names can get confusing) survives, with (I
> believe) five subspecies recognized.  They are prarie dwellers, found through-
 ((suff deleted)

>      Duke McMullan n5gax nss13429r phon505-255-4642 ee5391aa@triton.unm.edu

Look, this really won't do at all.  What's the idea of posting a
knowledgeable mini-essay on the subject?  The net is strictly for
people to pontificate about stuff they don't know about and spread
misinformation. 

Kevin Geraghty
From: greeven@clipper.ingr.com (John Greeven)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Chile and its National Parks
Keywords: Chile, Parks, backpacking
Date: 25 Aug 92 20:39:04 GMT
Organization: Intergraph Advanced Processor Division - Palo Alto, CA

I've been collecting information on Chile for about two years in
anticipation of my visit at the end of this year.  I'd like to find
someone on the net who has been to Chile or otherwise has information
to trade.  

Thanks,

John Greeven
greeven@clipper.ingr.com
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: rmach@sequent.com (Roger Mach)
Subject: Re: MSR Stoves - Whisperlite (how about Peak I)
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 21:21:59 GMT

In article <1992Aug25.130807.11299@ssigate.ssinc.com> msc@ssigate.ssinc.com (Michael S. Cross) writes:
>My (older model) Peak One does this flame-over and sputtering garbage.
>I didn't see the posted tricks you mention, but I did clean all the tubes
>in my stove and replaced the generator with the one they now sell for
>the newer model stove.  It didn't help much.
>
>I never had the Peak One leak except when I was trying to start it.  I
>have carried it mostly full in my pack for over 5 years, I never
>de-pressurized it, but after cooking on it there isn't much pressure
>left in it anyway.

I think I've finally figured out why my older style Peak I was turning into
a fireball while lighting it; sounds like what you've described as "leaking"
above.  If you disassemble the burner assembly (take off the generator
first) you'll notice that there's a metal cup under the burner.  The fuel
leaving the generator is squirted into this cup, where it is absorbed by a
wick of some kind.  Presumably the wick is supposed to absorb the liquid
fuel and give it a chance to evaporate during the lighting process.  Of
course, after the generator is heated up the fuel should vaporize in the
generator and the wicking isn't necessary.

Well, the wicking on my stove had pretty much disentegrated, and what I
think was happening was the fuel would build up in the metal cup until it
overflowed, at which point it would start flowing out onto the fuel tank.
A few seconds later the whole tank would catch on fire, and everybody
around the campsight would get real excited.  :-)

I found that by being real careful with the flame adjustment, I could keep
the amount of fuel being squirted into the cup at a reasonable level, and
the normal lighting process could proceed.  After the generator is heated
up, I've never had a problem with the fireballs.  Of course, using priming
paste works even better.

I suppose the real solution would be to replace the wicking, but for now
I seem to have found a couple of workarounds.

Hope this helps!

-- Roger

P.S.  I've never had a problem with the Peak I leaking in my pack, and I never
depresurize the stove.
-- 
Roger Mach                            Internet: rmach@sequent.com
Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.        UUCP    : ... uunet!sequent!rmach
            * * * Just Say No to the War On Drugs(tm) * * *
From: tucker@shiva.edsg.hac.com (George Tucker)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Good hikes in the Western Sierra
Date: 31 Aug 92 21:56:18 GMT
Reply-To: tucker@shiva.UUCP (George Tucker)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Hughes Aircraft Co., El Segundo, CA

In article <1992Aug31.180329.18831@morrow.stanford.edu> AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney) writes:
>Frankly, I can't think of any eastern Sierra trailheads that require
>4WD.  The eastern escarpment is so abrupt that the drive in from
>US395 is pretty short.  Also, I suspect that the NFS has concoiusly
>made the trailheads 2WD accessable.

There are several.  The most beautiful is below Perkins Peak (?),
a quite challenging one leads to Bloody Mtn., a very short stretch to the Birch
trailhead is 4wd if you want to make the last mile by car, etc.    Generally
these are not places a REAL 4-wheeler might go for excitement, but that's
just fine with me.  None of them lead to lakes.

	 George Tucker        tucker@tcville.hac.com
What is the world's largest government subsidy to agriculture,
terrorism, speedboat manufacturing, organized crime, and prison
construction?
From: drchambe@tekig5.pen.tek.com (Dennis Chamberlin)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Pronghorns != Antelope
Date: 27 Aug 92 21:11:04 GMT
Reply-To: drchambe@tekig5.pen.tek.com (Dennis Chamberlin)
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton,  OR.

In article <mwan=1b@lynx.unm.edu> ee5391aa@triton.unm.edu (Duke McMullan n5gax) writes:
>
>them, the pronghorn can run flat out for _miles_!  Seems to me there was a re-
>cent article in either Smithsonian or Nat. History (Maybe Sci. American?) about
>current studies on their tremendously efficient lungs that gives rise to this
>unequalled cross-country running.  Their speed seems (not surprisingly) to be
>						d
I believe it was in American Scientist.
From: ajs@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Alan Silverstein)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 23:21:26 GMT
Subject: Re: Summary: Thermarest vs. Ridgerest, etc.
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry

> ...when one person moves, the other doesn't.

If you would prefer it more the other way when, uhhh, sleeping with a
friend, there is an Official Joiner you can buy for $5-6, something like
that.  Basically it's a little bag made of thermarest material
containing two straps made of the same material, each of which is a
figure 8 in design.  This allows you to join two thermarest pads side by
side with a small gap, by tying them together at head and foot.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: smmyers@pbhyg.PacBell.COM (Sean M. Myers)
Subject: Re: Source for reflector ovens?
Reply-To: smmyers@PacBell.COM (Sean M. Myers)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 20:53:52 GMT

In article <1992Aug27.133142.3260@bnr.ca> Tim Dudley <dudley.chi@xerox.com> writes:
>Does anyone know of a source for reflector ovens?  One local shop
>here has them, but they're over $70, and I won't pay that much.
>
>Any ideas?
>
>Tim


     Take a look in the Backpacking Magazine from 2 or 3 months ago (not the
last issue, the one before that.)  It had a reflector oven that was designed
for backpacking stoves.  I don't remember the price though.  They claimed to
have made pizza and brownies in it and that it worked o.k.



  -+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+-
  + Sean M. Myers (smmyers@pbhyg.PacBell.COM)| Sweater, n.:                 +
  = Systems Analyst                          |      A garment worn by       =
  + Operator Services                        |      a child when its        +
  = Software Engineering and Maintenance     |      mother feels            =
  + Pacific Bell SRV, CA. USA                |      chilly.                 +
  -+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+-
  +   Sex without love is an empty experience,    |                         +
  =   but, as empty experiences go,               |                         =
  +   it's one of the best.     -- Woody Allen    |                         +
  -+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+-
From: kgg@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Kees Goossens)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Pasta cooker 4 backcountry
Date: 1 Sep 92 16:06:27 GMT
Reply-To: kgg@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Kees Goossens)
Organization: The Lavatory for the Foundations of Computer Science

In article <1992Sep01.115832.6771@brtph560.bnr.ca> jbl@mesaadm.cre.nt.com (JB) writes:
>In article <17u6bpINN75u@grapevine.EBay.Sun.COM> Daniel Abernethy,
>mtnbiker@singletrack.EBay.Sun.COM writes:
>>Can a Peak1 cook a lb. of pasta??
>>Is it feasible to use just one large pot for all the cooking??

>Bring enough water to cover the noodles to a boil, set pot OFF stove,
>cover and let sit for x.

While no doubt hundreds of postings are going to say how to save gallons of
fuel, here's the standard trick.  It works for noodles, rice, spaghetti etc.
Bring water to boil, possibly with rice/spaghetti in it.  Take pan off
stove, put into sleeping bag/towel/thermal vest/whatever.  Leave until ready.
In the meantime cook the sauce.  You may occasionally want to reheat the
pan if you're cooking brown rice or something like that.  Pasta may not be
at its best using this method, but rice works very well.

My Peak1 cooks anything.  The most adventurous was a curry for three which
needed lentils, potatoes and brown rice boiling, and a sauce simmering.
This was using three pans, most of which spent most of their time heating up
my sleeping bag.

Kees
--
Kees Goossens                       Keep in Touch with the Dutch:
LFCS, Dept. of Computer Science     JANET: kgg@dcs.ed.ac.uk
University of Edinburgh, Scotland   UUCP:  ..!mcsun!uknet!dcs!kgg
Wiskunde is bouwen in de geest.	--- Luitzen Egbertus Jan Brouwer.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: behm@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (BEHM CHRISTOPHER JOSEPH)
Subject: Re: No dogs in Natl Parks
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 15:27:11 GMT

In article <14441@auspex-gw.auspex.com> johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira) writes:
>
>The water topic brings up another question.  How do you stop a dog from 
>drinking giardia infested water?  Have any of you dog owners that have 
>brought a dog into the backcountry had the dog get giardia?
>

	There is no way.  My dogs will drink just about anything
	regardless of how much water I bring for them (and it's 
	usually about a 8:1 ratio, them to me).  Sometimes if they
	drink virtually pure mud, they might have loose stools the
	next day but that's the worst reaction that they have had.
	The do go to the vet pretty often and have never had worms
	parasites etc. but I don't know for sure if they check for
	giardia.  This sounds like a question better answered by 
	your vet than the collective net.wisdom.  

				John Mastrangelo, speaking for his two Newfys
				ice@massive.its.bldrdoc.gov



Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: jstewart@alfred.carleton.ca (John Stewart)
Subject: Re: Saranac Lake Islands camping
Organization: Carleton University
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 17:26:20 GMT

In <1992Aug25.152548.8802@bnr.ca> Tim Dudley <dudley.chi@xerox.com> writes:

>Just got back from a week of camping on the Lower Saranac lake, 
>and thought I'd warn people off of it.  The lake is gorgeous, with 
>campgrounds on the islands, but the lake is/was full of power boats,
>water skiers, and bass boats, most of the time at speed.  One cluster
>of four bass boat owners had a generator running most of the night
>(in order to light their party, I guess), and spent considerable time
>during the day having races.

If you don't like motorboats, I suggest you go canoeing in Algonquin Park.
Use of outboard motors is restricted to a relatively small number of lakes
and in almost all cases there are horsepower limits (usually 10hp or less).
The rules on outboard motor usage are included on the canoe route map so
it is easy to plan a route that avoids lakes on which motors are permitted.
-- 
John Stewart -- Computing and Communications Services, Carleton University
Internet: jstewart@ccs.carleton.ca or Mr.Canoehead@algonquin.carleton.ca  
"Why can't we just forget about our constitutional problems and go canoeing?"
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu (Chris Webster)
Subject: Re: No dogs in Natl Parks
Reply-To: chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu
Organization: Research Aviation Facility, NCAR, Boulder, CO
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 14:26:10 GMT

In article 1661@brtph560.bnr.ca, JB <jbl@mesaadm.cre.nt.com> () writes:
>
>Yes, the rules apply to me and my pooch. But I beg to differ that dogs
>are not allowed in any NP.  I don't recall seeing this rule applied to
>most of the trails/areas in Smokies.  Does someone have more info?

RMNP and Colorado National Monument have the following rule:

Dogs ARE allowed in the park.  They must be on a leash if they
are not in your car, and they are not allowed on trails period.

--Chris

Newsgroups: rec.backcountry