From: godfrey@sscvx1.ssc.gov (LAURENCE GODFREY)
Subject: Re: Money Money Money
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Organization: Superconducting Super Collider Laboratory
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 23:55:00 GMT

In article <Bw79GB.15J@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, ssg9328@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Samart Srijumno writes...
> 
>Knowing the persons who were mentioned by Dr. Godfrey, though partially
>anonymous, I sent the whole article posted by Dr. Gedfrey to the both
>Chiangmai and Bangkok c/o of friends who have e-mail account. 
> 
>Dr. K which was mentioned by Dr. Godfrey is Mr.Kasem Wattanachai, M.D., who
>was the Rector of Chiangmai University (CMU) during the time Dr.Godfrey had
>worked at CMU. I am not 100% sure about Dr.T though I suspect he is Dr.
>Teerasak Ramingwong who used to be the Dean of the Faculty of Science. 
> 
>Dr. Kasem is no longer at CMU, but, since October 1st, this year, has been
>appointed the Deputy Under-Secretary of the Ministry of University Affairs
>in Bangkok. That's why I sent Dr.Godfrey's collection of his letters which
>was posted in the s.c.t as referred by him in the his above post to a friend
>in Bangkok who has an e-mail account. This friend is an ajarn at Chula.  This
>friend has been very helpful. He right awy delivered the letter to Dr. Kasem 
>by himself at the Ministry. The following is part of the message he sent to 
>me yesterday (Oct.14, 1992):


Khun samart, Khrap,
   I would have been perfectly happy to supply the names of the individuals
concerned if you had asked me by email.  Nevertheless, you correctly identified
Dr, Kasem, the rector, but incorrectly identified Dr. T.  If you email me
I will supply you with the correct names of all the individuals mentioned
in my posting containg the 3 letters about cmu.  I saw no reason to post
them, as my copies of the letters were meant to illustrate a problem, not to
incriminate any individuals.
> 
> 
>:I met Dr. Kasem at the Ministry of University Affair this afternoon 
>:to give him your letter. He seems to know everything about the matter.
>:He told me that this farang after came back to UK, went to the Thai
>:Embassy there. And the issue got into the newspapaer there also.
>:Dr. Kasem said that this farang had an argument with Dr.T. and was
>:very upset with the matter. Dr. Kasem also told that they already sent
>:him the money. Anyway that is what he told me during the 10 minutes talk
>:he said that he'll respond and FAX his message to me. I'll forward
>:the message to you immediately after I get it.
> 
What Dr. Kasem has told you is quite true.  I did receive the money eventually -
it came in two batches, the first about 5 months after I left and the second
about 8 months after I left.  In order to get it I had to write about 8
more letters to the university, several to the Thai embassy in London,
and several others besides.  A  very small part of the story was revealed
in a aetter I wrote to a newspaper in London.

If anyone wants these letters, I have copies of all of them.  The story
described in my posting of the letters is exactly true in every detail, and
there were quite a few witnesses who I think could confirm it.  Dr. Kasem too k
nows most of the details up to the time I left the university.
> 

>My friend at Chiangmai also sent me a short message saying he had passed the
>message to Dr. T. I just hope that he, too, should quickly reply. 

As you have wrongly identified the Dr. T in question, and I don't know the one 
you refer to, I'm not sure this will do much good.  I will, as I said above,
provide the correct names by email if you wish.

>would also want to hear from the other side. It is aparent that he had not
>got any reply the CMU administration. 
> 
I did get one letter from the cmu administration explaining the delays in
putting matters right after I left - administrative delays.  I did have
a meeting with Dr. Kasem before i left Thailand, and it seemed at that time
that he was treating the dispute and its implications very seriously.  I
did not hear from him again, however, and my attempts to see him again
before I left were unsuccessful - he simply kept refering the matter back
to someone in the administration.

As you probably have realised, this dispute had a number of profound political
implications at cmu, and there were a number of behind-the-scenes negotiations
took place.  It was a very sensitive matter at the time (for reasons which again I think i would
I think I would prefer to explain by email to Khun Samart) - you know better
than me what Thai politics is like.

I would have prefered it if you had asked me before resurrecting this issue
in Thailand, as I would have replied that I considered the matter dead and
buried - I did eventually get the money and there was no real harm done
except to my feelings about Thailand.  However, the letters I wrote (3
of which were posted by me) are a matter of public record, so I cannot
really object if you wish to examine the matter further after my posting.

I am rather interested in what response you eventually do get, as I
cannot see how your respondents can fully address the issues without
admitting that someone was at fault at cmu.  I think that the issues
will probably be skirted.  Nonetheless, I am encouraged by the fact that
the quotes you atribute to Dr. Kasem are perfectly truthful.  Finally I
would point out that the issue was not, and never has been, about money -
if I cared that much about it i would never have gone to work in Thailand -
but about ethics.  Answering the complaints by saying I did get the money
owed is cetainly not addressing the real issues involved.

regards Laurence
Organization: Doctoral student, Mechanical Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA