HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Action Ears: What Do Users Think?
Date: 20 Aug 92 21:41:49 GMT
Organization: The Cat Factory

In article <9208181629.AA21997@ariel.crd.Ge.Com> davidsen@ariel.crd.ge.com (william E Davidsen) writes:
}In article <1992Aug12.184545.12657@ttinews.tti.com>, 
}hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath) writes:
}
}| I tried a pair at the local range.  If the range is busy your conversation
}| is going to be chopped up into unintelligible bits.  If it's not, you
}| don't need them.
}
}  Most doctors would disagree. Even a few shots can damage hearing.

My apologies for the ambiguity.  I meant to say you wouldn't need the
built in microphones and amplifiers.  Of course, one should _always_ wear
ear protection on a live range.

The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@polymath.tti.com)
Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp                   Turn the rascals out!
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483     No incumbents in '92!
Santa Monica, CA  90405
From: pauly@netcom.com (Paul Yoshimune)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Dropping slide on empty chamber
Date: 18 Aug 92 03:01:07 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

Well, here's what Bill Wilson has to say about dropping the slide on an
empty chamber:

"Contrary to what has been written, the first thing you should do when you get
your gun back is not drop the slide five or six times to see if the hammer
will follow.  If the hammer doesn't follow--that is, ride down to the half-
cock notch when the slide falls on an empty chamber--the first time, it will
after you drop the slide three or four more times!  If you do this, what you
have done is ruin your new trigger job.  Period.  Wasted money."

"Look at the way a .45 Colt is meant to operate.  When you fire the gun, before
you can ever get your finger off the trigger, the slide cycles.  The slide   
cycles while the trigger is held back; everything is disconnected.  You're
still holding the trigger back when the slide slams home.  That's the way the
gun is designed to work."

"The gun was not designed to withstand dropping the slide on an empty chamber
without the trigger being held back.  There is never any reason to let a 
slide slam home on an empty chamber.  It not only destroys your expensive
trigger job, but it batters the barrel lugs and the breech face and is, in
general, very hard on the gun."

He goes on to say that when you shoot the gun dry, you should have the trigger
pulled back when you release the slide after inserting the new magazine.  
Again, it is his opinion that dropping the slide on an empty chamber will
batter the sear nose and hammer hooks, and eventually the hammer will follow.


-- 
DVC,
  Paul

Paul Yoshimune
pauly@netcom.com
From: jbm@cyclone.sbi.com (Jeffrey B. Moore)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Rust control
Date: 20 Aug 92 21:41:16 GMT

Edward J. Rudnicki writes:
# Dan Sorenson's posting on Wenol also describes Flitz, another German
# product with identical properties.[...]

FYI, one source of Flitz (and some fine knives) in the US is:

    Cutlery Shoppe
    5461 Kendall St.
    Boise, Idaho  83706-1248
    800/231-1272 (orders)
    208/376-0430 (cust. svc./info)

-Jeff Moore (jbm@sbi.com)
From: erico@narrator.pen.tek.com (Eric Oosterhof;627-4329;47-786;tekig1.pen;)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Stupid shooter tricks
Date: 19 Aug 92 23:44:12 GMT
Organization: tektronix


In article <1992Aug19.163142.29053@CERIS.Purdue.EDU>, jheath@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Jim Heath) writes:
|> 
|> The guy looking at the gun took out the magazine, checked the
|> chamber and proceeded to try the trigger out.  He got ready to
|> give the gun back.  The slide was forward, he put the magazine
|> back in and then checked to see that the gun was empty by pulling
|> the slide _all_ the way back.  He then decided to try the trigger
|> again.  Fortunately, he was pointing the gun into a wastebasket.
|> That quieted things down real well ;-{).

Always assume that the first thing someone will do when you hand them
your weapon is attempt to fire it.  Thusly, you should never, EVER
hand them a loaded weapon, or an empty weapon with a loaded magazine
unless you are at the firing range.  My personal rule is that the first
thing I do every single time I pick up or put down my firearms (or 
anyone elses) is check that they are not loaded.  EVERY SINGLE time.
Additionally, I don't have any personal stupid shooter tricks for ye'.
(The realist in my cries "Yet!" at the top of his lungs... &)

-- 
Eric Oosterhof                "Gentlemen, I have the utmost confidence 
erico@tekig1.PEN.TEK.COM       in your ability to perform...
(503) 627-4329                 the impossible!"  Capt. Jean-Luc Picard
"Choosy mothers choose .gif"  Anthony C. Zable
From: megatek!cjp@uunet.UU.NET (Chris "Systems Stud" Pikus)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: S&W 586 problem
Date: 18 Aug 92 03:01:05 GMT
Organization: Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California

#From article <1992Aug17.180306.26253@igor.tamri.com>, by donb@igor.tamri.com (Don Baldwin):
# A few nights ago, I had my 586 out for drt firing and, when I opened the
# action to load snap caps (muzzle pointed at the ground), the arm that swings
# out the cylinder, and the cylinder, fell off into my hand.  That had never
# happened before, so I figured that there was a problem.
# 
# Has anyone else out there with a 586 (or other Smith revolver) had that
# problem before?  Does it sound like something I can fix myself or do I
# need to look up a Northern CA S&W approved gunsmith?  If so, would that
# be expensive?
# 
# Thanks,
# 
# 

	Good news:
 
	You are probably missing one of the screws from the side-plate on
the other side of the gun. The forward-most screw not only holds the
screw plate on but also retains the crane (aka yoke) in the gun.

	You'll note a 1/16 inch groove on the end of the crane axis. And
from the below ASCII drawing (a rec.guns requirement), illustrates this.


   XXXX
   XXXX   <<----- part of crane that swings out.
   XXXX
   XXXX
   XXXX_______________   _
   XXXX               |_| |
   XXXX                   |  <<-----  Axial view of end of crane thingy
   XXXX                _  |
   XXXX_______________| |_|

			^
			^
			+---------- Screw recesses in here.
				    ( permits rotation about axis)

	Bad news:
	The screw is fitted to the crane. If it is not fit right, then
it will chew up the notch.

	My opinion:
	Get the gunsmith to fit the screw for you. It should be 
inexpensive (about $20.00, mostly labor). This should be a stock item
and can be done relatively quickly.



-- 
Christopher J. Pikus,        | "Forgive me for not knowing about El Salvador. 
Megatek Corp., San Diego, CA | Like it's not like I'm ever going to go to Spain
INTERNET: cjp@megatek.com    | or anything."	  -- "Buffy the Vampire Slayer"
From: swatt%mickey@net.yale.edu (Alan Watt)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Mas Ayoob to be in Seattle
Date: 20 Aug 92 21:41:24 GMT
Organization: Yale University, Computing & Information Systems


In article <13400024@iftccu.boeing.com>, bressler@iftccu.ca.boeing.com (Rick Bressler) writes:
|> 
|> Mas Ayoob will be in the Seattle area Sep 19 and 20.  He will be
|> offering his Judicious Use of Deadly Force Seminar which when combined
|> later with the completion class (shooting portion) gets you an LFI I
|> certificate.
	...
|> 
|> Reservations may be made through the Firearms Academy of Seattle at
|> (206) 827-0533.

Let me second the suggestion you attend if at all possible.  Mas is one
of those characters you just have to experience for yourself.  He is
not for those of "delicate sensibilities" however.  Both his language
and subject matter are gritty and graphic.  Of course, if you seriously
contemplate self-defense with a firearm, you probably don't fall into
the "delicate" camp.

|> 
|> If you do go, take him a bottle of Rolling Rock Beer and tell him that
|> you heard about it on the net.
|> 

I don't know where he finds that stuff -- I swear he has a truckload
delivered to his house daily.  Must be a regional brand?
-- 
  Alan S. Watt
  Yale University			Computing and Information Systems
  Box 2112 Yale Station			(203) 432-6602
  New Haven, CT  06520-2112		Watt-Alan@Yale.Edu
From: mbehrens@aunext3.amd.com (mikael behrens x54752)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Browning A-bolt
Date: 18 Aug 92 03:01:00 GMT
Organization: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.; Austin, Texas

I'm going to be buying a hunting rifle in the near future and after doing some  
preliminary research, I like the stainless steel Browning A-bolt alot.  The  
reduced bolt rotation, glass-bedded free-floating barrel, and detatchable mag  
are some of the features that attract me to it.  As far as calibre, I'm trying  
to decide between .308, 30'06, and .270.

I'd appreciate any general information and opinions of this gun.  How's the  
accuracy?  Does the A-bolt have any horrible flaws that aren't immediately  
obvious (BESIDES being made in Japan)?

Mikael
From: hays@ssd.intel.com (Kirk Hays)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Stupid shooter tricks
Date: 18 Aug 92 03:00:53 GMT
Organization: Intel Supercomputer Systems Division


|> Using said training, my friend attempted to aim the 1911A1 like an
|> M-16, with his eye up to the rear sight.

I once witnessed someone do this with a S&W M29 .44 Magnum - I was not able to
stop him in time, and the hammer spur put a very wide groove in his right temple.

It is truly amazing how much blood comes from a cut on the head, and how much it
spatters when the bleeder is dancing around, saying #@^*&$%^*, and hopping up and
down.

After I'd patched him up with the first aid kit from my pick-em-up truck, I
purchased the M29 from him, at his insistance, for $5.  Only dropped once.

My only accidental (actually, negligent) discharge:

I was sitting on a couch in the junk trailer I lived in while attending college,
shooting mice that were running through the walls (the trailer was miles from
anywhere, in a small valley).

I cleared the gun, and took some dry-firing practice.

Heard another mouse, loaded the gun, shot the mouse, set down the gun.

Picked up the gun for some dry-firing, and put a single round right between my
crossed feet, creasing both shoes, through my roommate's stereo, through an
interior wall, and shot the lock off my toolchest in the bedroom.

The stereo still worked, the stains washed out of my pants, and the toolchest was
given a decent burial.

-- 
Kirk Hays - NRA Life.
Start your day with a little civil disobedience.  Call BATF at 1-800-ATF-GUNS or
1-800-RUN-GUNS, tell them what you think of gun grabbers and government employees
that encourage people to narc on their neighbors.  Good for the soul.
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 9mm major / 9x21 reloading question
Date: 12 Aug 92 23:33:43 GMT
Organization: Western Washington University

burge@qdeck.com (Bill Burge) writes:
#The 9X19 is the 9 Luger.  THe 9Major should ONLY BE ATTEMPTED IN GUNS
#BUILT FOR THE PURPOSE.  I have on of these guns.  It is a comped, Colt,
#with a fully supported chamber and a tight chamber, from Jim Boland.
#The lead in the barrel allows the bullet to be seated long, the same 
#length as a 38 Super.  THis give a powder chamber similar in size and
#keeps pressures lower.  Keeping this in mind here is a major load that I
#like - 6.5gr of W-W 540, 162gr lead round nose and a Federal primer.  THe
#bullet is a Western Nevada and has a long taper to the nose.  THis gets more
#of the lead out of the case and down the barrel.  THis requires 38Super
#magazines.  A greate practice load is 3.5 of 231 and the rest the same.
#This is a 155 power factor and from my gun, knocks down poppers, double-
#taps great and goes where it is sent with virtually NO muzzle flip.


So if you load a 9mm up super hot, in a special gun, it can equal a 
38 Super... 

...I wonder why not just get a .38 super for this purpose? 

Is there something bad about the .38 Super that I am not aware of, or 
is it simply consumer preference?    I know about the semi-rimmed nature
of the cartridge, but to my knowlege it does not effect performance.

The Astra A-80s were made in 9mm, 30 Luger, and .38 Super, with 15+1
rds for each caliber, and in .45 ACP, but the .30 and .38 have been
left out of the A-100 line, due to a lack of consumer interest, I 
would guess.

The .30 is a pretty wacky caliber*, imo, but I see nothing wrong with
the .38 Spr, and I see little reason to prefer 9mm chambering to it, 
especialy for the reloader.

*(It seems strange to have a full sized gun chambered to fire .32 ACP size
bullets.)

Jim Del Vecchio
From: jca@crash.cts.com
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Carrying spare magazines
Date: 12 Aug 92 13:31:53 GMT
Organization: CTS Network Services (crash, ctsnet), El Cajon, CA

In article <9208102126.AA19412@netmail.microsoft.com> alane@microsoft.com (Alan Ezekiel) writes:
#Despite all of the advice, and my respect for the instructors who
#suggested these things, I remain unconvinced.  Modern high-capacity
#firearms carry so many cartridges that spare magazines seem excessive
#somehow -- I cannot avoid the feeling that anybody incapable of
#stopping an assailant with fourteen bullets will fare no better when
#given twenty-seven.

Who is to say that you'll have only one assailant attacking you?   And
who is to say that several rounds in that magazine are bad or the entire
magazine is bad and has not a single good round in it?

#So here are my questions to you: can you think of any other reasons
#to carry spare magazines or speedloaders?  When you carry, do you
#bring a spare magazine?  Why (or why not) would you suggest carrying
#spare magazines?

Multiple assailants.  When I start carrying I will be carrying at least
two spare magazines on me.  It is a trivial matter to carry spare
magazines via a shoulder holster.
--

     // JCA

 /*
 ** ARPA    : jadpc!thewall!jca@nosc.mil | 13 + 1 = 228... 
 ** INTERNET: jca@thewall.cts.com        |
 **           jca@thewall.uucp           |           SIG-Sauer P228...
 ** UUCP    : nosc!jadpc!thewall!jca     |
 */
From: bakc@giraffe.ru.ac.za (MR KR COMAN)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: X's on bullets
Date: 12 Aug 92 13:31:45 GMT
Organization: Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa

#Neglected by all in this discussion are bullets that are dieeigned to
#"yaw" on entry.  Such designs are exemplified in the old USSR 7.62x39
#"cavity tip" bullet where the closed jacket in the node of the bullet
#contains an air filled cavity.  On impact this cavity collapses and
#causes the bullet to yaw off course, expanding the wound channel well
#beyond the straight line expected by a FMJ round.

#Another example could be made of the understabilized .223 round from
#the US military.  Being both high-velocity and understabilized the
#bullet either yaws wildly as above or virtually fragments at sort
#range.  I'm not sure what'll happen with the SS109 rounds.

Ditto: .303 FMJ Mark 7 -- introduced in the early 1900's to overcome the "
drill straight thru" problem of the overstabilised Mark 6.   The "nose cone" 
of the Mark 7 is aluminium, this places the C of G further back encouraging 
instability/tumbling on impact.   The German 8mm "Spitzer" introduced in the 
same period was designed in accordance with exactly the same principle, and 
may even have *preceeded* the .303 design.
	So much for Geneva Convention "humane" prescriptions. 

(Digression: Around 1910, British army column works its way thu Afgan border 
country side -- steep mountains etc.   Sniped at all the way by sporting 
tribesmen with no TV to entertain them.   Strangely very few casualities.  
Great relief once darkness falls and camp is made:  "Buggers weren't 
shooting too well today."
	Next morning, sentry finds a note pinned up in prominent place 
addressed to column commander.   Paraphrased: "Sorry for our bad shooting 
performance yesterday, my men have naturally been used to sighting their 
rifles with the Mark 6 cartridge.  Recently we secured stocks of your new 
Mark 7 bullets and have found that they group differently.  Most of my men 
have now got their rifles sighted in using the Mark 7.   We look forward to 
today's competition......."    True story from an old family friend who 
served in the Indian Army at the time.)

Cheers,

Keith Coman
From: erudnick@pica.army.mil (FSAC-SID)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Rust control
Date: 13 Aug 92 23:50:38 GMT



Joe Gugliemino writes:
#Now that I've had this revelation, I have two questions.  What is the
#best way to clean the rust off?  Steel wool is the obvious choice, but I
#don't want to damage the remaining finish any more than I have to.  Is
#there some sort of cleaning compound that I can use?  The rust is
#primarily on bolt handles, magazine boxes and receiver backs, although
#there is a little on one scope, and my HK single shot has seen better
#days
#
#Once I do clean them up, how do I keep the rust from returning?  I've
#thought of applying silicone, oil, or WD40.  I'm not too excited about
#cosmoline - from what I've heard it's a long-term storage compound that
#would have to be removed/reapplied whenever I wanted to head to the
#range.  Obviously I need more weathertight gun cases - any
#recommendations?


Having dealt with antique firearms and such in less than pristine
condition, I've had good results with non-abrasive polish (like Flitz)
and either a soft cloth for large areas or a Q-tip for small rust
spots. It pretty much leaves the finish alone, but will take out the
rust. It may take a while for more than a thin surface film of rust,
in which case abrasives and/or refinishing couldn't do much more harm
anyway.

I use a silicone-treated cloth for preservation, but I guess my main
technique is storing the guns in a dry location. WEathertight gun
cases would be a mistake unless used with chemical dessicants or
electric heating.



Ed Rudnicki     erudnick@pica.army.mil     All disclaimers apply
Protect the Second Amendment - boycott Ruger products
"That's not true," Bill hissed to his lawyer. "The facts are-"
"Don't worry about facts, Bill, no one else here does. Facts can't
alter this case."       -"Bill the Galactic Hero" Harry Harrison
From: rats@ihlpm.att.com
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Colt Sportster/AR-15 Magazine Compatibility?
Date: 21 Aug 92 18:02:10 GMT

[Colt Sporter mags]

|Hold on!  I've been told by a magazine supplier that Colt uses weaker
|springs in its 5-rounders; cutting out the pin so it holds 20 rounds
|might cause feeding problems for > 5 rounds.

Can't be. The Sporter mag is the same length as the AR-15 20-rd mag,
and presumably still contains the "U"-shaped 5-round blocking metal
piece. Supposedly, Colt simply riveted the bottom plate [To the blocking
piece?].

|#Was the development of the 5 rd. mag just a PR stunt on Colt's part, or
|#did they have to do it?
|It was strictly PR.

|If you really want to rock & roll with your AR-15, try the 90-round
|drum.  Get yours while you still can.

I wonder about the longevity of this magazine; not only is it plastic,
but it feeds the rounds from only a single side of the magazine.

What you really want, and I wonder why the heck you could find such
a beast, is the Beta "C" mag. This is a 100 round magazine for the
M16 which uses two side-by-side drums. It kind of looks like the
double saddle drum to the German MG-34.

It's made in the USA I think, but the manufacturers in their magnificent
wisdom have not sold it to scumbag civilians. Strictly military-police,
apparently...
From: vapspgd@prism.gatech.edu (Edward Hefter)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Magazine disconnect safety (was Re: Stupid shooter tricks)
Date: 18 Aug 92 12:25:05 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology


Actually, as far as I can tell, every Browning Hi-Power 9mm starts out with a
magazine safety.  How long they stay on depends on the shooter and the
gunsmith, I suppose.......
-- 
                                Edward Hefter
                   Trying To Survive the Ga Tech Experience
                         vapspgd@prism.gatech.edu

[MODERATOR: Thanks and a tip of the hat also go to ....]

From:           6820230@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Subject:        Re:96 Magazine disconnect safety
Organization:   Lockheed Missiles & Space Company, Inc.

I have a Browning Competition GP.  It has amagazine disconnect.

-- Heidi Simonsen 6820230@lmsc5.is.lmsc.lockheed.com

[MODERATOR: ... as well as ...]

From:           lcline@agora.uucp (Larry Cline)
Subject:        Re: Magazine disconnect safety (was Re: Stupid shooter tricks)
Organization:   Open Communications Forum


My Browning HP (Portugal assembled) has a magazine safety on it.  I
understand this is true of all the HiPowers.  I don't know about their
other models.

Larry Cline
lcline@agora.rain.com
C_________   Industrial Graphics
From: sybok@athena.mit.edu (The Rifleman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: The New Colt AR15s
Date: 14 Aug 92 13:31:26 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

In article <v75m3th@lynx.unm.edu> canders%lacerta.unm.edu@lynx.unm.edu (Cliff Anderson CIRT) writes:
#Has anyone out there heard about the new Colt AR15 rifles in 7.62 by 39 cal.
#This sounds like a good idea from the folks at Colt.  You know!!
#Cutting in on the SKS market.  Well I'm sure it cost alot more.
#
When I asked about that version of the AR-15 a while ago, I was warned
that the 7.62x39 doesn't pack like the .223 Rem; if you go try to stuff
lots of rounds in the standard Colt mags they supply (after knocking out
the pin), you might get a jam.  Apparently, this cartridge requires
a higher curvature magazine.
From: erudnick@pica.army.mil (FSAC-SID)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: X's on bullets
Date: 17 Aug 92 17:53:20 GMT


Keith Coman writes:
#Ditto: .303 FMJ Mark 7 -- introduced in the early 1900's to overcome the "
#drill straight thru" problem of the overstabilised Mark 6.  The "nose cone"
#of the Mark 7 ia aluminium, this places the C of G further back encouraging
#instability/tumbling on impact.   The German 8mm "Spitzer" introduced in the
#same period was designed in accordance with exactly the same principle, and
#may even have *preceded* the .303 design.

What Keith says about the .303 Mk 7 is true; what he says about the German
7.9mm is not.

Both the "S" ball bullet and "sS" heavy ball bullet used solid lead cores
(as opposed to the lead core with aluminum tip of the Mk 7). The "SmE" used
a core which was predominantly mild steel with some lead; this was intended
to reduce use of scarce lead.

However, during the Great War the Germans issued "S" ball for rifles and
"sS" heavy ball for use with MGs. It may be that the rifling in the MGs
was of a tighter twist, to stabilize the longer bullet for long range
shooting. If this were the case, the heavy ball bullet would be marginally
stable in rifles, like the SS109/M855 in the 1/12" 5.56mm barrels. Just
speculation - comments welcome :)


Ed Rudnicki     erudnick@pica.army.mil     All disclaimers apply
Protect the Second Amendment - boycott Ruger products
"That's not true," Bill hissed to his lawyer. "The facts are-"
"Don't worry about facts, Bill, no one else here does. Facts can't
alter this case."       -"Bill the Galactic Hero" Harry Harrison