HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jheath@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Jim Heath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Glock 23
Date: 17 Aug 92 15:05:10 GMT
Organization: Center for Environmental and Regulatory Information Systems, Purdue University


I recently lucked into a used Glock 23 (smaller .40 S&W).  It was
$380 and he threw in a box of ammo as well.  Do they all come
with 2 magazines?  I thought they did, but my friend who wanted
to shoot it as well thought that they only come with one.  In any
case, mine came with 2.

I found it to be a little difficult to hold on to at first, but
it seemed to get better with "practice".  I wish it had
adjustable sights, for the 4 people who shot it, it did not come
close to point of aim.  For me, at 25 yds, it shot a little below
the black with a 6 O'clock hold.  One person got a good group in
the top left corner of the target.  The other 2 seemed to shoot
below the target stand (hard to tell since they weren't hitting
the cardboard).  Is this usual?

Also, the first magazine or 2, I had 2 - 4 failures to fire.
Unfortunately, I didn't think to look at the primers to see if
they were dented.  After that, it worked fine.  I think it may
have not gone into battery.  I noticed this a couple of other
times and pushed the slide forward.  Have any other Glock owners
noticed this phenomenon?  
-- 
"Land of song, said the warrior bard,           Jim Heath
Though all the world betrays thee.
One sword, at least, thy rights shall guard, (The Minstrel Boy)
One faithful harp will praise thee."         (Thomas Moore)
From: jheath@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Jim Heath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Bullets with stainless steel points?
Date: 17 Aug 92 14:44:11 GMT
Organization: Center for Environmental and Regulatory Information Systems, Purdue University

#From article <oH8JPB2w164w@raley.Gwinnett.COM>, by pertinax@raley.gwinnett.COM (Pertinax):
# I recently heard about some kind of hollow point bullet with a stainless
# steel contraption in it that will open up with sharp blades on impact.
# Anybody ever heard of such a thing?  The source was a cop, and I'm not
# sure whether to believe it or not (sort of depends on which cop, and I don't
# know this one well).  Is this a misunderstanding, urban legend, etc.?  Or
# some exotic new ammo?
#

Sounds like either Black Talon or Starfire (or Firestar, I can
never remember which is the gun and which is the bullet) from the
description.  I don't remember anything about a stainless steel
point though.  Could it be your friend mis-interpreted what he
read?
 
-- 
"Land of song, said the warrior bard,           Jim Heath
Though all the world betrays thee.
One sword, at least, thy rights shall guard, (The Minstrel Boy)
One faithful harp will praise thee."         (Thomas Moore)
From: weed@sweetpea.jsc.nasa.gov (daniel weed 283-4162)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Para-Ordinance Woes
Date: 18 Aug 92 17:13:49 GMT



-- 

I'm having some problems with my Para-Ordinance alloy framed 1911-A1.
These problems may be endemic to the earlier versions of this frame
and magazine, so I'm hoping that someone out there has the solution.

The slide fails to feed the last round in the magazine nearly every
time.  The round gets partially inserted into the chamber.  This
feed failure also happens occasionally even when the round is not
the last one in the magazine.  This also happens when I put one round in
the magazine and cycle the slide by hand.

In addition, I've had several failures to eject the spent case.  This
has resulted in a stovepipe in some instances, and in others the
case never left the hold of the extractor rod.  I've ruled out "limp
wrist syndrome" on this one.

I'm usually feeding the gun standard jacketed hardball (UMC), but I've had
no additional problems with lead SWCs.

My local pistolsmith thinks the problem is with the early Para-Ordinance
magazines: the spring is not stiff enough.  I've heard this has been 
changed.  Does this cause sound reasonable?  Does anyone have experiance
with their customer service, that might indicate if I asked real nicely
they would send me a new magazine spring?  (I don't suppose they have
an E-Mail address...).  Has the magazine design changed as well?

Other problems could be the extractor rod or the recoil spring.  How do
extractor rods fail, or get out of whack, and what is the result?
What happens if the recoil spring is too heavy or too light?

Thanks for any suggestions all you experts out there can give me.

------------------------------------------------------------------
Daniel Weed                             weed@sweetpea.jsc.nasa.gov
McDonnell Douglas Space Systems Co. - Houston
          "My comments are my own, not my employer's"
From: haase@zaphod.uchicago.edu (Mark Haase)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Gun Prices??
Date: 23 Aug 92 03:09:31 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Mathematics, Univ. of Chicago

Dear Users:

This might sound like a silly question, but it is worth asking in my opintion.
We all know that this the election rhetoric is getting out of control.  
More significantly, the amount of gun-control broo-ha-ha is also increasing.
Considering the climate and a *possible* change in the administration, does
anyone out there have any idea what might happed to the prices of various
handguns (S&W, Glock, Sig, Colt)?  Obviously, there is a supply/demand
analysis that may be applied, but I don't have any idea what the figures are.
I would also fathom to say that strict supply/demand analysis might not prove
to be applicable in light of threatening government regulations.

Thanks very much.

Sincerely,

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Haase                         | "Gun control is hitting what you
DoD Fellow, University of Chicago   |     aim at."   
Naval Ocean Systems Center          |              -  G. Gordon Liddy
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

[MODERATOR:  Well, let's keep the replies either focussed on the precise
question, or, if discussing the value to said changes, then off-line...]
From: cramer@optilink.com (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Carrying spare magazines
Date: 12 Aug 92 13:31:06 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA


In article <9208102126.AA19412@netmail.microsoft.com>, alane@microsoft.com (Alan Ezekiel) writes:
# I have been told several times by defensive handgun instructors
# that every person who carries a defensive firearm should have an
# extra magazine or speedloader with them.
# 
# So here are my questions to you: can you think of any other reasons
# to carry spare magazines or speedloaders?  When you carry, do you
# bring a spare magazine?  Why (or why not) would you suggest carrying
# spare magazines?
# 
#                                -- Alane --

Your marksmanship skills will decline dramatically, when the target
is shooting back at you, kicking in your ribs, or cutting you with
a knife.  Even the prospect of any of these things happening to you
(which one would hope is the reason that you are carrying a gun) is 
likely to make you weak in the knees, upset in the stomach, and loose 
in the bowels.  I suspect that for every bullet that you successfully
hit your attacker with, AT LEAST two or three shots will probably
go wild.  (Yes, this should scare you plenty.  Yet another reason
that the government should fix the fundamental problem of savages
on the loose, rather than forcing decent people to engage in the
risky business of gunfighting).

In the event that you must deal with multiple attackers (an 
increasingly common problem in places like San Francisco), four
attackers means that your 13 round magazine has one shot left.
Tactical reloads are always advisable, so that you have a full
magazine in the event of a lull in this most dangerous of close
encounters.  Worst of all, imagine the embarrassment of having
to confront your attackers after having run out of ammunition.

I usually carry three spare magazines for my Browning when I
visit San Francisco.  But S.F. really justifies something belt-
fed for self-defense.

-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
When the government wins the War on Drugs, they are welcome to try their
gun control snake oil.
From: SYSTEMM@FRED.ALHRG.WPAFB.AF.MIL (System Manager Wuest)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: RE: Beginners ?'s on caliber
Date: 18 Aug 92 21:37:07 GMT


   The designations .22, .25, .357. .45, etc. _ARE IN INCHES_.   That is 
   caliber *is* inches.  Of course, if a caliber is suffixed with mm, then
   obviously the designation is metric (millimeters).  A handy "rule-of-thumb",
   mm * 4 = caliber.  I.E., 6 mm = _about_ .25, 9mm = _about_ .36.  There is 
   one exception, with no good explanation; .38 caliber actually uses a bullet
   of .357 diameter.  Thus .38 SPL can be used in a .357 chambered gun.

   The symbols you asked about are: LR - Long Rifle (a .22 designation),
   ACP - Automatic Caliber Pistol.  Of significance is that cartridges that
   were originally revolver rounds have rimmed cases; cartridges that were
   originally designed for automatic pistols are not rimmed, and designated 
   as ACP.  Some you didn't ask about;  SPL stands for Special, WMR - 
   Winchester Magnum Rifle.   

   NOTE there are several cartridges that are *NOT* interchangable, but 
   are the same nominal diameter; .32 spl, .32, .32 long, and .32 magnum.  
   There are also a .45 Colt, a .45 Long Colt, .45 ACP, and .45 Magnum.  
   Likewise the lowly .22.  There is .22 CB cap, .22 Short, .22 Long, 
   .22 Long Rifle, and .22 Magnum.

   Single Action means you have to manually cock the hammer, then pull the
   trigger for each and every shot.  E.G., pulling the trigger performs a
   "single action"; discharging the arm.  Double action means that pulling 
   the trigger will both cock the hammer, and release it.  E.G., pulling the 
   trigger performs a "double action".  

==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==
|  Mike Wuest, Allin1, DDN, & VAX Systems Manager  SYSTEMM@ALHRG.WPAFB.AF.MIL |
|  Armstrong Labs, Logistics Research Div.         SYSTEMM@[131.28.15.14]     |
|  Comm: (513)255-8225    DSN 785-8225    (a.k.a.) MWUEST@ALHRG.WPAFB.AF.MIL  |
|  "If it wasn't for our guns, we would be British citizens.  Think about it!"|
| Disclaimer: Opinions are like ears; everybody has a couple - these are mine!|
==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==
From: mike.federchuk@rose.com
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Taking handguns into
Date: 13 Aug 92 15:23:47 GMT

Date Entered: 08-13-92 03:26


Bill,

VO|1) If you bring a rifle/shotgun into Canada, will
  |   you need to prove intent as to why you have it.
  |   By this I mean: will you need to declare that
  |   you intend to hunt moose, duck, bear. What about
  |   times of year when it Isn't hunting season. Is
  |   it legit to say that you were target shooting in
  |   Montana, and just happen to have it with you?

For the purpose of hunting or plinking, you may bring any combination of non-
restricted rifles and shotguns into Canada, at any time.  Selective fire and/or
full auto guns are prohibited, leave'em at home!  You are allowed to bring up
to 200 rounds (total, not of each) of ammunition with you.

Rifles must not have a capacity of more than five rounds (4+1), shotguns must
not have a capacity of more than three (2+1)  Most shotgun makers sell a plug
for this reason.  There are NO capacity restrictions on .22 rimfire, so the
17round tube mag. is ok.

If you are competing in a pistol or rifle competition, you may bring up to 5000
rounds of ammunition (total).  You must be able to prove that you are
competing, and your pistols must be registered (with Canada Customs) for the
purpose of competition.  This must be done through your club, not at the
border.

VO|2) If you brought a rifle/shotgun that was obviously
  |   not for hunting, such as a .22, 9mm-.45 carbine,
  |   mossberg pistol grip 12 gauge, will they hassle
  |   you. (yes I know that some of these guns could
  |   be used for some limited hunting, but they are
  |   not "typical" hunting guns.)

Why bother?  Pistol grip shotguns are illegal, they don't meet the min. length
requirement.  I'm not sure about pistol calibre rifles.  It shouldn't be a
problem, best call and ask.

VO|My reason for asking is that the ONLY Canadian PC type gun I own
  |is a .22 bolt action, and the next rifle I will get will be a .22
  |Magnum bolt action. I can hardly claim that I intend on going Moose
  |hunting with a .22. "Honest, I'm such a good shot, a .22 is all I
  |need."

Keep your mouth shut.  Answer all questions to the best of your ability.  Do
not lie, but do not volunteer information unless asked.

VO|Does a high capacity tube (17 lr rounds) on a .22 make it a restricted-
  |evil-assault-weapon? Does the hollowpoint ban include .22s?

See above.  There is no restriction on .22cal RIMFIRE.  I bought a box of
Remmingtion "Stinger" .22 hollowpoints last week at Canadian Tire (like a Wal-
mart, just pricier :)  Price was $3.50CDN plus tax (15% :().  Rimfire ammo. is
just as cheap here as in the states.

VO|Thanks for any info.

No problem!  Welcome to Canada!  Have fun!

Regards,
Mike Federchuk              |
Burlington, Ontario, Canada |
mike.federchuk@rose.com     |
---
   OLX 2.2   No, no, not "Born Again", I said I was into "PORN Again."
   RoseMail 2.00 : Usenet: Rose Media - Hamilton (416) 575-5363
From: towle@vssteg.enet.dec.com (Clark Towle Gunsmith)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: S&W 586 problem
Date: 18 Aug 92 12:25:17 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


In article <1992Aug17.180306.26253@igor.tamri.com>, donb@igor.tamri.com (Don Baldwin) writes...
#A few nights ago, I had my 586 out for drt firing and, when I opened the
#action to load snap caps (muzzle pointed at the ground), the arm that swings
#out the cylinder, and the cylinder, fell off into my hand.  That had never
#happened before, so I figured that there was a problem.
# 
#Has anyone else out there with a 586 (or other Smith revolver) had that
#problem before?  Does it sound like something I can fix myself or do I
#need to look up a Northern CA S&W approved gunsmith?  If so, would that
#be expensive?


 Sounds like the front lower sideplate screw is either missing or loose. It's
the one above the trigger.

 Replace it or tighten it.
From: cmort@ncoast.org (Christopher Morton)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Glock 22 opinions
Date: 18 Aug 92 17:14:18 GMT
Organization: North Coast Public Access *NIX, Cleveland, OH

As quoted from <9208180359.AA04481@lanslide.hls.com> by JEFFD@elmer.hls.com (Dempsey, Jeff):

# 
# 
# 	I am interested in opinions of the Glock model 22 .40S&W pistol.  I

1. Mine has been very reliable.

2. It is more than accurate enough at 7-50ft. on indoor ranges.  I shoot cast
bullets almost exclusively.

3. It has the largest grip frame in the series that I can comfortably hold.

4. Durability has been excellent.

5. It's an outstanding price/performance value.

Until Browning starts making the High Power in .40S&W, I wouldn't have another
gun in its place.

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------  

"Well whose opinions did you THINK these were...?" 
------------------------------------------------------------------  
"It's 11:59pm, do you know where your congressman's checkbook is?"
------------------------------------------------------------------ 
Christopher Morton
{uunet|backbone}!ncoast.org!cmort                      cmort@ncoast.org
From: sybok@athena.mit.edu (The Rifleman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Colt Sportster/AR-15 Magazine Compatibility?
Date: 21 Aug 92 03:36:10 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

In article <1992Aug20.135436.18860@icd.ab.com> kdw@icd.ab.com (Kenneth D. Whitehead) writes:
#Many thinks to all you guys out there that responded to my inquiry wrt
#compatibility of AR-15 mags with the Colt Sporter.
#
#The general consensus out there is that the AR-15 extended capacity mags
#work just fine in the Sporter, and that the stock Sporter 5 round mags can
#be modified to accept 20 rds. with little effort.  This raises the logical
#question:

Hold on!  I've been told by a magazine supplier that Colt uses weaker
springs in its 5-rounders; cutting out the pin so it holds 20 rounds
might cause feeding problems for > 5 rounds.  Just get the aftermarket
mags that were designed to hold 20, 30, or 40 rounds.

#Is using a high capacity mag, or modifying the 5 rd. mag against the law?

Nazi Jersey has a "high capacity(tm)" mag ban (> 20 rounds?), and certain
cities have restrictions, but in most states, this is NOT illegal.  I
don't know whether the California AW Ban covers magazines.

#Was the development of the 5 rd. mag just a PR stunt on Colt's part, or
#did they have to do it?

It was strictly PR.

#I was browsing through the local ordinances down
#at the library, and SURPRISE!  I found that in my community, a semi-auto
#which "can" use a high capacity mag is considered to be "dangerous ordinance"
#and you're supposed to have a special permit from the Chief of Police.  (This
#came as something of a surprise to me, and I haven't been able to find anybody
#alse who knew about it, either.  Sounds like a convenient excuse to grab your
#guns if the cops have to visit you for any reason.  Man; the stuff these 
#sneaky little local Demo-commies pass when we're not lookin'!)

This is new to me.  (By the way, the anti-gunners are on both sides.  During
the convention in Houston they put R-RI Chafee of handgun banning fame
on to speak.  It was all I could do to keep my lunch down.)


If you really want to rock & roll with your AR-15, try the 90-round
drum.  Get yours while you still can.
From: erudnick@pica.army.mil (FSAC-SID)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Trap, Skeet, Sporting Clays ?
Date: 19 Aug 92 18:42:24 GMT
Article-I.D.: claudius.9208191414.aa24312


Andy Freeman writes:
#Wouldn't it be nice if the NRA spent time/money on politics?  If

Ironically, in the last two NRA elections there was a faction running
for the Board on the grounds that the "new" NRA was TOO interested in
politics.

Apparently they forgot that to enjoy the shooting sports they were so
worried about, it's nice to have the firearms.


Ed Rudnicki     erudnick@pica.army.mil     All disclaimers apply
Protect the Second Amendment - boycott Ruger products
"That's not true," Bill hissed to his lawyer. "The facts are-"
"Don't worry about facts, Bill, no one else here does. Facts can't
alter this case."       -"Bill the Galactic Hero" Harry Harrison
From: dcwst8+@pitt.edu (David C Winters)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Book research: Bullets in water.
Date: 13 Aug 92 23:50:45 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh


In article <1992Aug12.232758.1550@bbxrbk> bbx!bbxrbk!russ@unmvax.cs.unm.edu (Russ Kepler) writes:
##|> In article <1992Aug11.115737.15551@dxcern.cern.ch> mcmanus@dxcern.cern.ch (Leo McManus) writes:
##  [original question deleted]
##
##There is an interesting chapter on this subject in the "NRA Firearms Facts"

What's the best way to get a copy of this booklet?

# [inadequacies(sp?) of .50BMG rounds when firing into qater, deleted]

The following is to be taken with a (large?) grain of salt.

In one of the books on WWII that I've read, one of the UDT (frogmen)
makes mention of the fact that, after .50BMG (or any other calibre)
rounds had travelled ~2.5m to ~3m through the water, they were moving so
slowly that they (the frogmen) could catch them with their teeth...

But don't take MY word for it - try it yourself. :-) 

--
David Winters
dcwst8@unix.cis.pitt.edu *OR* winters@vms.cis.pitt.edu

	Illigitimi non carborundum
From: wa3wbu!john@uunet.UU.NET (John Gayman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Dropping slide on empty chamber
Date: 20 Aug 92 13:07:41 GMT
Organization: @ WA3WBU, Marysville, PA


In article <1992Aug17.033125.29594@sserve.cc.adfa.oz.au>, ghm@ccadfa.cc.adfa.oz.au (Geoff Miller) writes:
# rani@barsoom.nhh.no (Ragnar Nielsen) writes:
# 
# ... I'd say it was gun.folklore.  Obviously, picking up a slide from the
# magazine does retard the forward motion of the slide or bolt on a semi-
# auto, but for the unretarded forward motion to represent such a vast
# amount of wear seems very unlikely.  Note that many target pistols
# (such as my own Walther GSP) do not have an automatic hold-open mechanism
# operating after the last shot, so the manufacturers don't appear too
# worried (and, for the cynical  -  no, the guns don't wear out quickly).
# 


   You'd be suprised at how much the chambering of a round actually
 cushions the slides return to battery. As for the Walther.. two things.
 I don't thing it's sear assembly is as sensitive as a < 4 lb 1911
 and the second is when your slide goes forward after firing the last
 shot your finger is still on the trigger and the sear is disconnected.
 Disconnected is the key. That's the reason most experts say to hold the
 trigger to the rear on a tuned 1911, to disconnect the sear. This happens
 everytime you fire the gun. You cannot let off the trigger before the
 slide returns to battery. As I mentioned in another post, DA triggers
 like Glock, SIG and Baretta just to mention a few aren't as subseptable
 to damage. I think the bottom line is common sense. If your slide goes
 shut occasionally on an empty chamber in normal use it doesn't matter
 much. To sit and constantly let the slide fly or do it as a routine
 operating practice at every range session is asking for trouble. 


						John




					

-- 
John Gayman, WA3WBU 
UUCP: uunet!wa3wbu!john
Packet: WA3WBU @ WB3EAH
From: pertinax@raley.gwinnett.COM (Pertinax)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Bullets with stainless steel points?
Date: 16 Aug 92 22:38:39 GMT

I recently heard about some kind of hollow point bullet with a stainless
steel contraption in it that will open up with sharp blades on impact.
Anybody ever heard of such a thing?  The source was a cop, and I'm not
sure whether to believe it or not (sort of depends on which cop, and I don't
know this one well).  Is this a misunderstanding, urban legend, etc.?  Or
some exotic new ammo?

[MODERATOR:  Not stainless, perhaps, but you might check out the ads for
"Black Talon" ammo (what is it, from PMC? I forget.).  Looks ferocious in 
the pix.  But for what its worth, many of us are likely to stay with tried
and reliable rounds until we see the performance of this newcomer.]
From: pmod@pfbs.philips.se (Par-Mikael Odsater)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: New triggers for Benelli & Pardini
Date: 21 Aug 92 12:59:55 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment BCFI AB, Sweden



Hi all gunners out there.

I want to know if anybody is interested in a NEW type of trigger for Benelli
and Pardini.
The new type is a wider type, that gives a better feeling when shooting.

Price: 100 SEK, 30 DEM, 15 USD + postage

Please let me know by E-Mail.

Have a nice time,
			P-M (pmod@pfbs.philips.se)
--

 Par-Mikael (P-M) Odsater           | Digital Equipment BCFI AB
                                    | S-162 86 Vallingby
 pmod@pfbs.philips.se               | Sweden