HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hutton@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (ed Hutton ext. 6488)
Subject: Re: Twin Beechcraft crashed in Hinckley, IL
Organization: NCR E&M Columbia SC.
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 04:11:19 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.160841.695@nlm.nih.gov> masys@nlm.nih.gov (Dr. Daniel R. Masys) writes:
>In article <1992Sep9.143422.6700@eecs.nwu.edu> phil@eecs.nwu.edu (William LeFebvre) writes:
>>
>>
>Welcome to the stark realities of twin engine operation.

Mea Culpa! Mea Culpa! I know when you give statistics you're supposed
to provide the source. Close as I can remember it was an article in
AOPA's Pilot. Any way the number was engraved into my brain.

The quoted number was that you are FOUR times as likely to suffer a
fatal accident if you lose an engine in a twin engine airplane than 
if you lose the engine in a single engine airplane!

Surprised at this, I asked a couple of OLD crafty twin drivers at the
local air strip. I got two responses that stuck with me.

"The good engine carries you to the scene of the crash."

"A twin has two engines because it needs them both." 

I can think of several reasons why I might want to fly a twin.
An extra engine is not one of them. The single engine performance
numbers I have read are pretty weak. Any twin drivers want to
post some of the climb figures from their POH?
-- 
edward.hutton@ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Ed Hutton)    
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: star@ruble.tuwien.ac.at (Dr. Werner Staringer)
Subject: Greenhorns wanting to fly in Australia
Reply-To: star@eimoni.tuwien.ac.at
Organization: Technical University of Vienna
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 13:43:30 GMT

I've completed my PPL-ASEL here in Austria about six weeks ago.
During the past six weeks my wife has grown from a totally ignorant
passenger ("do we have to fly that fast?") to a professional
crew member ("watch your speed, we are quite slow!").

Now we are thinking about whether we should turn our planned
5-week trip to Australia this X-mas into our first flying holiday.
We would appreciate any advice you netters can give us on that.
Any and all opinions are welcome, be it advice to leave that for
some other time (until the ink on my license is dry...) or
valuable info on how to prepare for the trip.

Currently, we know next to nothing about flying in Oz. We haven't
even been there (we had lived in New Zealand for 18 months, but never
made it across the Tasman). How easy is it to rent a plane over there
and what are the costs involved? Are the rental planes in acceptable
condition? Insurance? How tricky is the weather? Is my Austrian
ICAO licence valid as is, or do I need to take any further steps?
What are useful sources of information? Where should we go?
(we arrive in Sydney)

Thanks for your help,

Werner.
star@fml.tuwien.ac.at
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: phil@eecs.nwu.edu (William LeFebvre)
Subject: Choosing a pattern at an unfamiliar airport
Organization: EECS Department, Northwestern University
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 15:36:26 GMT

Here is the scenario:

You are approaching an unfamiliar uncontrolled airport.  You've never
been there before.  The A/FD lists the runways (9-27, 15-33, 18-36)
but says nothing about non-standard patterns.  You overfly the field,
find the windsock, don't see any markings indicating nonstandard patterns.
You look for traffic and find one and only one airplane.  It is flying a
RIGHT pattern for the active runway (15).  You've been listening on CTAF
and haven't heard a thing, so you must assume that s/he is not announcing
intentions.  If it makes a difference, there is a town close to the airport
(northeast) and a left pattern for the active would end up going over part
of the town.  Requests on Unicom go unanswered.

What would you do:

.  follow the other airplane in a right hand pattern

.  enter a left pattern for the same runway (15)

.  enter a left pattern for a different but intersecting runway (18)

.  something else?

In case you're wondering, I did not simply make this up.....

		William LeFebvre
		Computing Facilities Manager and Analyst
		Department of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science
		Northwestern University
		<phil@eecs.nwu.edu>
From: ron@pilot.njin.net (Ron Natalie)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Oshoksh and IFR (was: Logging time for the Inst)
Date: 14 Sep 92 14:59:59 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

> The problem isn't a lack of controllers -- it's the type of radar which is
> available in the Oshkosh area.

That's not what I was led to believe from a couple of controllers I
talked to at Oshkosh.  One from Chicago center had even volunteered
to set up a special operation plan but was refused by management
there.

-Ron
From: ron@pilot.njin.net (Ron Natalie)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Air Lifeline experience
Date: 13 Sep 92 18:19:24 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

> 6) The patient has special requirements, such as a wheelchair that needs to
>   go with them and the airlines are not really ready to deal with those
>   special needs.  Or even the need for an interpreter to travel with
>   the patient.

I'm not berating AirLifeline, but if this is the case, someone should
send a copy of the ADA to the airline.  Frankly, my wife when between
knee surgeries travelled in a wheel chair, and never had a problem
like that on the real airlines (and I'm willing to bend my definition
to include Texas Air subsidiaries).

-Ron
From: morris@mksol.dseg.ti.com (jerry a morris)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: New Career in Flying?
Keywords: Career, Commercial Pilot
Date: 10 Sep 92 21:48:18 GMT
Organization: Texas Instruments

In article <1992Sep10.133744.461@altair.selu.edu>, tmis1692@altair.selu.edu writes:
|> 
|> Has anybody changed careers at the age of 36 from say programming computers to
|> flying airplanes for a living?  I see ad's in the magazines that say you can
|> get a license (commercial) within a year or so provided you go to their school
|> full time of course.  Now, Can you make say 30 or 40K per year flying when you
|> graduate?  Is it worth it?  What do you pilots say?  (What is the difference
|> between a pilot and a stick holder?  The pilot makes money.)
|> Please reply to TMIS1692@selu.edu as I am not a regular on the list.
|> 
|> Thanks from a (naive?) maybe future pilot.
|> 
|> Kevin Calmes - TMIS1692@selu.edu
|> 
|> PS. Where can I get a cheap rudder/yoke interface for MS FS-4?
|> 


Sorry  but NO WAY..

don't quit your day job.

There are to many people who are much much younger who already
are  experianced that can't get a job flying making 20k/year.
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: star@fml.tuwien.ac.at (Werner Staringer)
Subject: Greenhorns wanting to fly in Australia[2]
Reply-To: star@fml.tuwien.ac.at
Organization: Technical University of Vienna
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 14:36:51 GMT

I've just read my own posting and suddenly realized that the
From-field as well as the Reply-To field were incorrect. The
proper email address is:

	star@fml.tuwien.ac.at

This posting should have all fields set correctly.
Sorry for wasting bandwith.

Werner.
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: aboyd@quantum.on.ca (Andrew Boyd)
Subject: Re: DEA on 60 minutes
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 92 14:01:28 GMT
Organization: Quantum Software Systems

In article <1992Sep8.224119.1564@cactus.org> rdd@cactus.org 
(Robert Dorsett) writes:
>
>Among other things the DEA's been doing: 
>
>1. It (with the cooperation of Customs) has introduced the concept of 
>*targeting* international travellers, based upon their travel profiles (e.g., 
>go to Columbia 5 times a year, expect to be strip-searched and have things 
>shoved up your ass next time you arrive at JFK).  They don't need to display 
>any *evidence* that you are explicitly suspected of any crime: only that your 
>travel/lifestyle profile matches those of smugglers or other "undesirables."  
>And the Supreme Court has upheld this!

Hard to believe that this sort of behaviour goes on in the USA.  A friend
of mine flew his canadian-registered C-310 down to the dominican republic 
for the 500 anniversary in the spring - while the a/c was parked overnight 
in florida, the DEA broke into his a/c, tore up his floorboards, and wired
an extra transponder into his electrical system, in the process screwing
up his turn co-ordinator.  High quality work, obviously.  Needless to say,
a new weight & balance was not calculated.

Guilty until proven innocent.  Incredible.  I am never going to fly my a/c 
south of tennessee.

I don't use drugs (don't even use anti-histamines) but didn't anybody
learn anything from prohibition in the 30's?  When you try to legislate
morality, criminals get rich.  Increasing the enforcement pressure simply
causes a darwinian effect to take place - the nastiest and smartest criminals
prosper.  Is this the intent of the US govt?

Treating ths symptoms (the drug runners) is useless.  It doesn't make the
the demand for drugs go away - the economic force still remains.

Perhaps, though, the DEA doesn't really want to so-called "drug problem"
solved - they'd be out of a job.

Anyways, nuff said.

----

#include <std.disclaimer>

Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: biesel@javelin.sim.es.com (Heiner Biesel)
Subject: Salto sailplane.
Keywords: Salto, performance
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corporation
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 15:59:09 GMT

I'm considering purchasing a Salto sailplane. I know a little about
the aerobatic performance of the plane - one of the reasons why I'm
interested in it - but would like to hear opinions concerning its
general utility as a cross-country ship. I've heard that it has a
rather high stall speed, and may therefore present problems landing
in your typical rough pasture. Please respond via email, and I will
summarize if there is general interest.

Regards,
       Heiner Biesel

Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: davea@col.hp.com (Dave Allen)
Subject: Re: Confessions of non-pilot
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 18:20:29 GMT
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division

tmorris@convex.com (Terry Morris) writes:
> but think that this viewpoint needs to be at least
> considered by those of you who fly GA. Don't blow off all your future 
> passenger's concerns as ignorance or regard them as victims of media hype.
> There are real considerations that one must make prior to committing one's
> safety to a private pilot in a GA aircraft, and the pilot's skill is just
> one of those considerations. Of course I get kidded by my pilot friends who 
> want to know why I won't fly to get a hamburger from the next county or go 
> up for an afternoon of touch-and-goes. It's just a stupid fear, or more
> precisely a fear of something stupid.

Very well said, Terry. I guess I feel towards bungie jumping like you do
about flying airplanes. Maybe a good time to share the two crashes that
I've been next to.

It was a small airshow. A Pitts or EAA or something. He was doing half-rolls
just off the deck and pushed up when up was down. He didn't walk away from
it, but I don't think it was too long before he was walking and flying again.
The plane looked fairly rebuildable too.

I was tucked inside the baggage compartment working on the Bonanza when I
heard a smash between me and the runway. I was the first one on the scene.
It was a gyro-copter. He couldn't get the seatbelt undone and gas was pouring
on him. Still conscious. I undid him and as spinal-column-neck-injury-
conscious as I could (grabbing clothes at shoulders and squeezing head
between my arms) I dragged him straight away from it. No fire. He collected
himself and went on.

There are many times "stupid" doesn't mean dying - in flying or driving
or hunting or... But you're absolutely right: people have GOOD reasons to
be afraid of flying, and we need to fully respect them and their reasons.
And we just plain need to respect the danger that is there.

Thanks.

dave allen - Fly because you love it.
From: ritter@claude.ma30.bull.com (Roger Ritter)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Hinckley Crash
Keywords: twin engine aircraft on tkof
Date: 14 Sep 92 18:34:51 GMT
Organization: Bull HN Informations Systems Inc.

karl@ddsw1.mcs.com (Karl Denninger) writes:

>It seems insane that at some three miles from the field, which represents
>a time greater than one minute from take-off, that the pilot would not have 
>retracted the gear in the face of a known energy management problem (engine 
>out condition).  He certainly wasn't going to need the gear to land in a 
>soybean field!  

This is speculation, but if the Beech 18 has a hydraulic retraction
mechanism, and the hydraulic pump is on only one engine, and that is
the engine that died, then the pilot may not have been able to retract
the gear without say, maybe 100 strokes of a manual hydraulic pump.  I
suspect he would be too busy to do this, in the circumstances of this
crash.  Does anyone know enough about Beech 18 systems to comment
authoritatively on this?

-- 
Roger Ritter N1FZZ (R.Ritter@ma30.bull.com) PP-ASEL, AGI
1946 Luscombe 8A N71983 "Rocky"
Sheep do not so much fly as plummet!        NH CAP: Profile 49
From: phil@eecs.nwu.edu (William LeFebvre)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Twin Beechcraft crashed in Hinckley, IL
Date: 9 Sep 92 14:34:22 GMT
Organization: EECS Department, Northwestern University

More news on the Hinckley crash:

The initial NTSB investigation has revealed that the left prop
was neither full power pitch nor feathered.  The right prop was
pitched for full power.  The experts say that this is an indication
that the left engine was having problems, either mechanical or fuel.
They said they have tested and are testing the fuel, but have not
said anything about what they found so far.

The pilot was, according to those at the club, one of the best.  They
quoted another club member as saying "there's no one else I'd rather
have at the controls in an emergency."  He was apparently very thorough
and safety conscious.  This would lessen the probability of fuel
contamination, since the likelihood that he checked the fuel during
preflight is very high.

The NTSB has kept the engines and returned the remainder of the plane
to the owner.

What I find very disconcerting at this point is that this well-experienced
and well respected pilot wasn't able, for whatever reason, to put the plane
down safely in a real emergency.  If HE can't do it, what does that say
about me?

Still more news:

The three "first time" students were all very close friends.  They were
three guys who became close during high school and, according to family,
"did everything together".  They even wanted to experience their first
jump together.

The media did a fair job of redeeming themselves last night.  Two of the
three channels ran reports about what it's like to skydive.  Basically
a "why do they do it" kind of thing.  What I saw of the two reports was
very positive.  Apparently a reporter for one of the stations (Ch. 5)
is a member of that skydiving club!  She did the report for that channel
and ended with a small tribute to those who died.

Again, my sincerest sympathies to all their friends and relatives.

		William LeFebvre
		Computing Facilities Manager and Analyst
		Department of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science
		Northwestern University
		<phil@eecs.nwu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: best@anasazi.com (Mike Best)
Subject: Re: Canard Pros -n- Cons
Organization: Anasazi Inc, Phoenix AZ USA
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 00:15:30 GMT

In article <1992Sep12.001808.17457@news.arc.nasa.gov> doshay@ursa.arc.nasa.gov (David Doshay) writes:
>Just as there are huge differences in the flight dynamics of conventional
>configuration aircraft, the same is true of canard configured aircraft.
>The Cozy IV may look a little like a Velocity, but the designers had very 
>different goals, and hence details like landing speeds are different for
>the planes. The Cozy and Rutan designs are far more a handfull than the
>Velocity.

In what manner are they "more of a handfull"?  I know they are harder to
build (:)) but my flight experience with the Long EZ and Defiant have
demonstrated to me that they are among the most forgiving and, dare I
say it, EZ planes to fly.  However, they do land quite fast!

>Your question about stalling the cannard while landing is a good one, but
>is info that is seldom discussed. People talk about the period of the 
>oscillation, but never the amplitude.

>The part about efficiency (both surfaces lifting) turns out to not be true in 
>actual practice.

Interesting, are you saying that both surfaces do not simultaneously lift?
If so, are they always in some ocillation behavior?  I have not noticed 
anything like this in practice (at least I couldn't observe this).

Mike Best
From: hchong@netcom.com (Hoi Chong)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Use solo to actually do something?
Date: 9 Sep 92 05:37:41 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

Can you like solo X-country down to LA and say go to Disneyland, and
then come back?  Or maybe visit friends or something, and come back the
next day?  Or does your instructor time your journey and actually waits
at the airport for your final touchdown?
From: chandler@beagle.UUCP (Jim Chandler)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: what do you think of the IC-A20?
Date: 6 Sep 92 20:09:16 GMT
Organization: None

In article <1992Sep2.220427.21086@dsg.cs.tcd.ie>, sloubtin@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Sylvain Louboutin) writes:
> I would like to use a hand held VHF in sailplanes;  I fly with club
> gliders and I find quite bothering to fly once in a while with a
> machine which does not have Dublin ATC frequency for instance, and
> being stuck below 3500 MSL (we fly below Dublin CTA).
> How useful would be a VOR capable hand held VHF in a glider?  has
> anybody out there used one of these in a cross country?
I don't have an A-20 or A-21 for that matter so I can't comment on the
radios themselves.  I have seen them and used one for a few minutes and
they seem like nice radios.  I have an ICOM ham radio and love it.  I would
only use the VOR for emergency use .  I would not try to navigate off
it.  The bearing swings around alot (like and ADF) although I have heard
that if you hook it up to an external antenna on the plane then it
stablizes but I have not seen this done.  Going from VOR to VOR in VMC
could probably be done, but I personally would not rely on it.
-- 
Jim Chandler
ames!infopro!beagle!chandler
jwc@sactoh0.sac.ca.us <--- best chance
KD6IRV	147.195
From: schinner@vcd.hp.com (Jim Schinnerer)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: DEA .vs. Florida
Date: 9 Sep 92 19:37:12 GMT
Article-I.D.: vcd.BuBt61.F5q
Organization: Hewlett-Packard VCD
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

Mark Thompson (mark@xfbdev.megatek.com) wrote:
: It seems to me that if the situation in Florida with respect to the
: DEA is as bad as it seems to be from the thing that I have read, that
: people should seriously consider JUST NOT GOING THERE. And telling the
: local Chamber of Commerce why. I would think that if the state
: officials were sufficiently riled up about it, they could convince
: congress to rein these clowns in.

While I hesitated at first to jump on the DEA slugfest wagon, I must say
that I think this is a really bad idea.

If there are no pleasure flights throught Florida, then, only drug
smugglers would fly down there.  Thus, the DEA would have a great time
messing with the few vacationing pilots that happen through.

Perhaps we should all fly down there at once...

I can't really believe that FL would miss the revenue of GA, either.

---------------------------------------------------------
Jim Schinnerer  -  PP-ASEL-IA       |  Hewlett Packard
Mooney - 350X  -  "Buster"          |  Vancouver, WA
email - schinner@vcd.hp.com         |  (206) 944-3324
---------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: rkaplan@netcom.com (Richard Kaplan)
Subject: AOPA Airfare Discounts
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 92 21:25:19 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

Check out the ad for the AOPA travel club in the current
issue of AOPA Pilot.  

I don't understand how, but AOPA has apparently 
negotiated with Northwest for a 20% discount on 
all airfares through December 14 -- not just full
coach fares, but ALL fares.  I just bought a ticket
home to New York for Thanksgiving and I saved
$55 -- enough to pay for my AOPA membership.

Come to think of it, they didn't even ask me for my
AOPA number.

This seems too good to be true.  What am I missing?


-- 
Richard Kaplan M.D.           Medical Software Exchange BBS
806 2nd St. SW # 104          (507) 281-1989 14,400 HST
Rochester, MN  55902          (507) 281-1689 Voice
PP-ASEL-IA     N4VRB          rkaplan@mayo.edu|netcom.netcom.com  
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: mcooper@cuuxb.att.com (~HIGH PERF~Michael A. Cooper~NA~G18~x8716~)
Subject: Liberty/Manhattan/Hudson Question
Organization: ATT/NCR-SSD, System Services Division, Lisle, IL
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 13:38:10 GMT



    Hi, fellow aviators.
I recently moved to the New Jersey area, and have heard from several
people that there is a route you can take under/around/through all
the New York TCAs to do a flyby of the Statue of Liberty, Manhattan,
the Hudson River, and back.  All I can get out of the local instructor
is "You don't want to do that," presumably because the FBO does this
as a "tour" package and charges beau coup bucks for it.  If anyone
has any information (routes, frequencies, procedures), I'd appreciate
it.  I looked in the Facilities Directory for this information and
didn't find it, although I did find another similar route for Niagra
Falls that I plan to take later on this year.

     Thanks in advance,
     -Michael Cooper.
     
     Reply to: mcooper@hover.att.com (not the address I post from)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: rmiller@i88.isc.com (Richard J. Miller)
Subject: a lesson on exiting
Summary: getting out in a hurry
Organization: INTERACTIVE Systems Corporation, Naperville, IL
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 15:36:37 GMT

i got a lesson from a master the other day that you all should hear,
especially you glider types.

i was sitting in my club's Mini-Nimbus waiting for the towplane when
Gene Hammond wandered up. i have alluded to Gene before here, but as
introduction, he is a founding father of the Chicago Glider Club and lives
on our field. glider drivers may recognize the name as he is the current
president of the Soaring Society and of the Soaring Safety Foundation.
he is also a senior DC-10 captain and check pilot for United. if he sees
anyone make a stupid mistake, he gently asks them about it; if he sees
them repeat it, he takes their head off.

Gene looked at me and asked how i would get out of the Mini if i had to.
the Mini has a canopy that opens to the right on hinges on that side of
the aircraft. i ran the sequence of canopy (pointing to the right side
emergency release on the open canopy), belts, and jump clear.

he said ok, but i probably wouldn't get out. he noted that pulling the
hinge side release on the canopy BEFORE releasing the other side (normal
opening) will cause the hinge to lock up and twist the normal release,
jamming the canopy closed!

he noted that one of his AS-W 20s required THREE releases, IN ORDER, to
clear the canopy (forward hinged, 2 side releases to open, then the
canopy jettison). and he reminded me that pushing the canopy off is
also needed on any ship.

he went on to say that statistics show it takes 6 seconds average to
get out of a glass saillpane even when the canopy jettisons cleanly. he
left the implications of altitude at time of decision to jump open for
my consideration.

then he said that some informed speculation (i am sure that he has
talked to the investigators) has been made that a jammed canopy may
have forced Helmut Reichmann to ride his ship into that French
mountain last spring.

one lesson that i won't forget for a while ...

Rich Miller
Chicago Glider Club
rmiller@i88.isc.com
Newsgroups: rec.aviation