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Date:         Mon, 6 Apr 1992 21:44:48 EDT
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From:         Bill McGarry <wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com>
Subject:      Handicap Digest # 2557
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                          THE HANDICAP DIGEST

                               Issue # 2557

                           Monday, April 06, 1992

Today's Topics:


                                ******


                          Re: pain vs. perspiration
                  Finding wheelchair accessible apartments
                    Wheelchair acc. homes - Massachusetts
                            Re: Urocare Leg Bags
                          Attendants take Advantage
                                    money
                              Loopholes and ADA
                                 Pipe Dreams


                                ******


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------



Subject: Re: pain vs. perspiration
From: Ambrose.Moore@f24.n3602.z1.fidonet.org (Ambrose Moore)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:3602/24 - ADAnet One (tm) Net, Pinson AL


[This is from the Spinal Injury Conference]

Hi Steve!

SS>>They might seem  kind of expensive compared to the 3 or $4 disposable
SS>ones,
SS>>but they are worth every penny .  I get mine from CARE 1-800-443-7091.
SS>I'm
SS>>looking at catalog now..$34.50 give em a call.

I just returned to Urocare bags after a couple of years.  Cost?  $64.76
thats without fancy attachments, or velcro straps--$25.50.  By God,
anything that's got to do with medical supplies in Canada, seems
outrageously over-priced.

Regards,
>From the G.W.N.
Ambrose Moore

 * SLMR 2.0 * Go FORTH and multiply!
 * QNet3 * <ADANET> Canada Remote Systems - Toronto, Ontario - (416)798-4713

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Subject: Finding wheelchair accessible apartments
From: Ron.Rothenberg@hnews.fidonet.org (Ron Rothenberg)
Organization: The Handicap News, Shelton CT (203) 337-1607


[This is from the Spinal Injury Conference]

When looking for an
accessible apartment:

*    State your needs clearly - use specific terms.  Say: "I need 18
     inches on either side of the toilet," not "I need a big
     bathroom."  Don't be shy when describing why you need a certain
     feature.  Knowing why helps the other person know if the
     apartment fits.  Try to differentiate between "musts" and
     "would-be-nice" features.

*    Be realistic - Few homes are perfect immediately.  Make sure the
     expensive modifications are there -  ramping, hallway size,
     bathroom size - but recognize that doors can be widened and
     light switches adapted cheaply.  Under the new Fair Housing Law
     the landlord must allow you to make your own reasonable
     adaptations.

*    Opportunity knocks - Check with your local housing agencies,
     rehab commission  or independent living center.  Landlords often
     call in search of tenants.  Check display ads in the newspaper
     for the universal wheelchair symbol.  This means that there are
     some accessible apartments in that building.  Look for ads in
     disability-related publications. [CB]

*    Enlist professional help - Call the office managers of several
     real estate agencies and ask for an agent who may have
     experience with wheelchair accessible housing.  Speak to several
     and then choose only one to work with, so there is an incentive
     for that agent to find you a home.

*    Know your rights - If you encounter discrimination, inform the
     landlord of your rights in a helpful way - don't be adversarial
     unless necessary.  The rights and needs of disabled people are
     new to some.  Many landlords don't know a companion or guide dog
     isn't considered a pet, or that you're entitled to make
     reasonable changes to make your apartment more livable.  If you
     don't tell them, they may never know.

*    New Construction = More accessibility (usually) - Most rental
     housing that recently went into service must have some units
     built to accessible or adaptable standards.

*    Need a lift? - If you live in a high-rise building, it's good to
     have more than one elevator so that you don't get stranded if
     one breaks.

*    In case of emergency - Is there an alternate accessible exit?[CB]

*    Change of season - When looking at a home in summer, consider
     the accessibility when there is ice and snow on the ground.

*    How's the neighborhood? - Check out curb-cuts and access to
     stores and transit in the area.

*    Can we park?  Is there HP parking nearby?  Does your vehicle fit
     into the garage.  Some raised-roof vehicles can not fit into
     standard garages.

*    Be kind to your landlord - Though it's the law, it's nice to
     receive a few strokes for being a good, accessible landlord.  If
     there are other vacant accessible units, let people know.  If
     accessible homes were always rented, more would be built.

*    Choose carefully! - Unless you're in a bind, take your time and
     find a home that's right for you.  Don't let initial
     discouragement trap you in a home that will send you looking
     again soon.  If you're happy with the home, consider a long-term
     lease.

*    For an accessible home - call *HomeBase Real Estate* at
     (617) 489-4812.

Ron Rothenberg is a real estate broker in Massachusetts.  He is
the owner of HomeBase Real Estate, a full-service residential
brokerage specializing in specific-needs homes and apartments.
He can be reached at (617) 489-4812 (VOICE) and    (617)
489-3848 (TDD)  or in the ABLED echo, or on the VIBUG BBS.

--- Via Silver Xpress V2.28
 * Origin: The Handicap News BBS (1-203-337-1607) (1:141/420)
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Internet: Ron.Rothenberg@hnews.fidonet.org




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Subject: Wheelchair acc. homes - Massachusetts
From: Ron.Rothenberg@hnews.fidonet.org (Ron Rothenberg)
Organization: The Handicap News, Shelton CT (203) 337-1607


[This is from the Spinal Injury Conference]

BOSTON AREA
For sale -  wheelchair accessible homes.

WEST ROXBURY - Strikingly beautiful combination of space and
light - custom-built for by/for man with quadriplegia for
independent living.  Totally barrier free, with hardwood floors,
skylights, fireplace, euro-kitchen, sun-drenched loft, best
materials.  extra-wide garage with ez-access to home, and dozens
of other features.  $199,900,

WAKEFIELD - Breathtaking, sunny, open and accessible, too!
wide-open contemporary styling makes this house a modern beauty.
Over 4,000 sq. ft. of space includes sepearable In-Law
Apartment, designed by Adaptive Environments.  100% wheelchair
accessible.  Also has a gunite pool (16x32).  Extra 50,000 sq.
ft. of land also available. $219,000

For further information on these homes, or other adaptable or
accessible homes in E. Massachusetts, call Ron at
HomeBase R.E.
(617) 489-4812 (Voice)
(617) 489-3848 (TDD)

In 1992, 5% of the proceeds from sales and rentals of
wheelchair-accessible and specfic-needs homes will be donated to
the Information Center for Individuals with Disabilities.

HomeBase R.E.
(617) 489-4812
(617) 489-3848 (TTY)

--- Via Silver Xpress V2.28
 * Origin: The Handicap News BBS (1-203-337-1607) (1:141/420)
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------



Subject: Re: Urocare Leg Bags
From: Steve.Smith@f102.n3815.z1.fidonet.org (Steve Smith)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:3815/102 - The Bat Cave BBS!!, Bartlesville OK


[This is from the Spinal Injury Conference]

Hello their Kevin Bass,

>       <grin>.  Ya, I have noticed it doesn't clean my leg bag as well as I
>would like.

I'm sure you'll like the Sween products. Just a few drops will do the
trick. The place where I started buying it from suggested it to me a
couple of years ago. The guy told me, he couldn't get people to try it
because of the price on the bottle. I was skeptical at first, but tried
it anyway and found it to be cheaper in the long run.

Just Another Okie

Steve

 * OLX 2.2 * I Like That Old Time ROCK "N" ROLL

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------



Subject: Attendants take Advantage
From: ldonovan@u.washington.edu (Leslie Donovan)


I use attendants and I have had plenty of thefts, been taken of advantage
financially, etc.  AND I AM A RESPONSIBLE EMPLOYER.  I get references.
But the problem with references is that the references you get from a
prospective employee will almost always be references that will be
favorable to the applicant.  Some of my worst attendants and those who
have taken the most advantage of me have had excellent references, while
some of my best aides have had few references of any kind.  Sure, you can
go through an employment or referral agency-- but most of those applicants
will ask anywhere from $9-20 an hour.  If you are lucky enough to have an
Independent Living Center near you, that really is the way to go for their
pool of people don't ask those kind of wages (which most of us who use
attendants can't even begin to afford).  But even then they may not have
anyone available who will meet your needs and so you're back at square
one.  If you don't have an IL center nearby, you really do have to depend
on your own common sense and resources.  I have had access to IL centers
and have received some government aid and I still have ALWAYS had to hire
an aide on my own because the resources available when I needed them were
not suited for my needs.  When you depend on an aide for daily survival,
you simply can't often wait the 3-9 months it might take for the agencies
to find just the right person.  It sure isn't as easy as some who have
responded imply.  Here is the usual situation with many of us who use
attendant care.

We rely on part-time help because we can't pay for full-time help with our
resources.  We get them through ads in newspapers because the agency rates
are too exhorbitant.  We interview them-- often more than once-- get
references, try to ask as many pertinent and leading questions as
possible.  And then we have to rely on our guts to tell us which is the
best of the lot.  This kind of job does not necessarily attract the best
kind of people.  My experience has shown me that it is OFTEN those who
will take advantage who apply for these kind of jobs, or those who can't
hold a "regular" steady job, or those down on their luck and desperate for
any kind of work (which then makes them desperate enough to take advantage
when they can).  I have to admit though that one of my best attendants who
NEVER took advantage of me was a woman I took a chance on who had just
come out of treatment for alcohol and drug abuse.

Once I hired an aide after getting excellent references,
interviewing her 3 times, etc.  She moved in (I was trying the
live-in route at that time- i.e. partial rent in return for help)
and I realized two weeks later that she was a prostitute.  Luckily
she didn't bring her clients home, but I got rid of her all the
same.  What do you do when you're in bed and the attendant sneaks
into the medicine closet and steals your drugs or other belongings
without you even knowing that it is happening?  Much of the time
you don't even know something is missing until the attendant is no
longer working for you and your attempts to reach her/him at the
old address/phone come up empty.  How can you start civil
proceedings if you have a fake SS# or even a fake name?  It happens
more frequently than you can imagine.  And how many of us with
disabilities, who already expend a whole lot more time and energy
on the basic daily living stuff, have time to spend tracking
someone down and going to court over and over and over.

I have taken to hiding all my prescription drugs or keeping them in
a locked place and to keeping as close track as possible of things
in places I can't get to in my house.  It helps, but it still does
not solve the problem and simplistic answers that say "just learn
how to be a responsible employer" make me angry.  The problem will
not be solved until we can have the funding to be able to attract
the quality type of employees that agencies send out or enough of
our own money to attract people who are not unskilled, down and out
types to answer our ads in the papers.  Most of us are at poverty
level or not all that far above it.

Enough of my diatribe.  My point is just that it isn't as easy as
learning how to be a good employer; there are just too many other
factors involved in this whole issue.


                                ******
*******
     ()
OOOOO||==============>  Ms. Leslie A. Donovan
     ()  E-MAIL:				     SNAIL MAIL:
	 Internet - ldonovan@u.washington.edu	     English Dept. GN-30
    	 Bitnet - ldonovan@uwavm.bitnet		     University of Washington
	 PHONE: 206-543-3832 (office)		     Seattle, WA 98195
		206-246-2986 (home)		     U.S.A.

                                ******
*******





------



Subject: money
From: 34AEJ7D%CMUVM.BITNET@VM1.nodak.edu (Bill Gorman)

>
>In a message to All <14 Mar 92 11:36> Greg Macrae wrote:
>
> >>-> Can anyone offer some blisteringly clever way(s) to raise the
> >>-> $25,000-$50,000 I need to buy a new, adapted van with a lift, or
>
>     ACCENT has a classified section which offers used vans for sale.

Sell advertising space on the van like the NASCAR people do?

OK, so it wasn't such a good idea.


Sez me,

W. K. (Bill) Gorman




------



Subject: Loopholes and ADA
From: 34AEJ7D%CMUVM.BITNET@VM1.nodak.edu (Bill Gorman)

>
>In a message to All <14 Mar 92 11:36> Bill Gorman wrote:
>
> BG> a loophole large enough to destroy the entire ADA. All a
> BG> business or employer would need to do in such a case is ensure that
> BG> their premises are totally  INaccessible, then point  to the  fact
> BG> that  they presently have NO disabled   customers/clients/employees  as
> BG>  proof   of  and justification for an  "exception" from ADA
> BG> requirements. This  is not so distant from the means used in the
>
>I think the burden of proof in the case of skydiving and bungee jumping would
>be  on the  disabled community.  Demonstrate there  are those  interested and
>ready to jump and I'm sure there will be an instructor/school willing to make
>the necessary accommodations.

Burden  of  "Proof"?!   What  "Proof"?  We  are  talking   about
a  potential customer/client  who wishes  to patronize  a business
and cannot  due to  its inaccessibility. Permitting exceptions  to
ADA regs on the  premise that there exist no current of potential
disabled clients/customers for the the business in question is
indulging in sheer *speculation*.

I can give you a valid, current, real-life example of this sort of
thinking in action.  Credit Bureaus  effect  everybody, disabled
or  not, because  credit effects everybody, disabled  or not.
Right? Right! The local  credit bureau is up a very  steep, dark
flight of  stairs in an old building  with no elevator.  Totally
inaccessible. Yet  if one wishes to keep tabs  on ones credit
history, the CB requires that  one present oneself in person at
their counter atop the stairs. Will  they accommodate to the
extent of even sending  someone down the stairs to meet a disabled
client? Absolutely  not. Are they a candidate for an accessibility
complaint  under the ADA?  You bet.  Are they whining  that they
should receive  an exemption since they  have no disabled clients?
Of course.  Q.E.D.

>I am of  the school which thinks  that the average business will  be happy to
>hire the disable once the disabled has proved he is qualified and capable. By
>capable, I mean able  to produce the same results as  an abled bodied worker.

We  were not  originally  speaking of  employment,  but simple
accessibility.  However, I agree  with you that a disabled person
should have the opportunity to compete  for employment of  what
King  George and his  ilk love to  call "a level  playing field".
Unfortunately,  the mindset  that disabled=non  compis mentis(sp?)
is  alive and well.  It is  the result of  this perhaps-unconscious
mindset,  and the  Old  Boy's Net  that  promulgates it,  that  has
made,  and continues  to  make,  Affirmative  Action   legislation
with  regard  to  the employment of the disabled a necessity.  This
is exactly the same problem with which the Black community had to
contend,i.e., a "presumption of incompetence" based  on nothing
more than  ethnicity.  In the  case of  the disabled,  this
"presumption of incompetence" is based on an almost identical
characteristic - physical appearance.  We walk may walk/talk
funny. We may use  wheelchairs or have artificial parts. We  may
not see well, or at all.  In order to penetrate this "curtain of
contempt", legislation has become  necessary.  Otherwise, the
disabled person will, in many cases, never get past the Personnel
Office, will never get  hired and thus  can never prove themselves
the equal of  any other employee as  far as job performance is concerned.
The business community had over 100  years in  America alone, and
many centuries in  other parts  of the world, to make some movement
toward integrating the disabled community into the work force. They
did nothing. Now, unfortunate as it may be, they must and
will be coerced  by federal regulation into doing what  they should
long since have done  voluntarily. As the Immortal  Bard said (more or
less):

          " 'Tis true and pity 'tis,
             and  pity 'tis, 'tis true."

>McDonald's has been hiring the handicapped for over ten years.

Really? When was  the last time you saw a disabled person working the
*counter*, not the scullery, at McDonald's?


Sez me,

W. K. (Bill) Gorman




------



Subject: Pipe Dreams
From: 34AEJ7D%CMUVM.BITNET@VM1.nodak.edu (Bill Gorman)

>In a message to Joe Chamberlain <12 Mar 92 17:27> John Desantis wrote:
>
> JD> Abuse if implemented correctly could be
> JD> cut to almost none. How? Few
> examples.
>
>Hundreds of thousands of disabled  persons live outside of nursing facilities
>at the present time without the support of your attendant program. As soon as
>the program is  implemented, it will be abused. At  the present time, parents
>of children with a disability can secure  four hours of respite care each day
>from our  medicaid program.  Some parents  choose to  work, others  shop, and
>still others watch TV while the home health aide cooks dinner.

Excuse me,  but by saying this  you are displaying appalling  insensitivity to
the needs of  able-bodied care-givers; something I have noted  being done by a
number of disABLED individuals. I know. I  am disABLED myself, and I have been
guilty of this behavior.

OK, so we are the ones who are  "disabled". Fine. But it can be more stressful
than many of us  realize or are willing to admit for  an able-bodied person to
act as care-giver, on whatever level. Why  should we begrudge them a few hours
respite from  what can otherwise  seem like a life  sentence at hard  labor if
that is what is  needed to restore their morale? Remember,  *we* depend of the
state of their morale, too.

>Family, wives, parents all over the country are helping their disabled family
>members cope with their  needs of daily living. They do  it much cheaper than
>any federal program and  with a much greater sense of love  and caring than a
>paid attendant.

In many  cases, that may  be true.  In many other  cases it is  definitely NOT
true. My father died because there was  nobody available for a couple of hours
a day to  see that he got a  balanced diet and took his  medicine for diabetes
and cancer.  I came to check  on him whenever I  could arrange transportation,
and  in every  instance I  found  freeloaders had  moved  in on  him and  were
stealing his things.  No matter how many  times I ran them out,  they would be
back soon after I departed. Now tell me how an attendant "who didn't love him"
would have  been bad  for him.  He didn't  need "love"  from an  attendant, he
needed service. The idea that family members can, or will, care for each other
in this age of the dissolution of the nuclear, to say nothing of the extended,
family is a myth that belongs  with the other fondly-recalled falsehoods about
The Good Old Days.

>If they, the disabled, are coping without the aide, then why create a program
>that will end up costing billions.

If the homeless/rape victims/abused children/addicted/whatever are coping, why
have Welfare/govt. housing/Protective Services/drug rehab. services (that will
all cost billions) available for any of them? Same philosophy.

Where better to spend "billions" than on the needs of People?


Sez me,

W. K. (Bill) Gorman

ADA - Because America takes care of Her Own.




------






                                ******

             End of Issue # 2557 of the Handicap Digest

                                ******
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