From: jap@cbnews.cb.att.com (james.a.parker)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.bush,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.elections
Subject: Re: Passing out Condoms  (Was Re: Better Off Than Four Years Ago NOT)
Date: 26 Aug 92 15:07:56 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Aug25.143848.25921@crd.ge.com> doel@crd.ge.com writes:
>In article <BtJL2I.K4z@apollo.hp.com>, nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes:
>> In article <1992Aug25.131123.24352@crd.ge.com> doel@crd.ge.com writes:
>> >> In both cases using the device will make you safer.
>> >
>> >Better yet is not having sex at all. 
>> 
>>   Better?   Let's just say "safer".
>
>What's wrong with saying better?  You seem to be trying to take morality
>and/or values out of the discussion.

I would suggest that all other things being equal, having sex is "better", 
inasmuch as it increases the pleasure of the participants.

Further, I would suggest that:

   a) Pleasure is a positive value.
   b) It is immoral to deprive people of pleasure simply because you disapprove
      of the means of obtaining it.

>I think we can both agree that it is "better" for school kids to refrain from
>a way of reducing the number of young people having sex.  Simply start
>a campaign in the mass media and in the schools similar to the "just
>say no" campaign against drug use.  We're starting to see the amount
>of drug use among the young go down because of this campaign.
>

The media campaign against the use of various disapproved recreational
pharmaceuticals is fraught with misinformation.  The truth about various
risks, even when they are few, is certainly appropriate, as the people involved
can then make informed decisions.  Lying to promote "preferred" behavior is,
again, immoral.

>mass media on the side of reducing promiscuity.  So far, I haven't seen
>it.  There's little doubt in my mind that the images presented by the
>media go a long way towards shaping our values.  One movie or character
>by themselves don't do much (see Murphy Brown), but the continuous
>escalation of promiscuity in movies and television do eventually have
>an impact.
>

Again, you indicate that "promiscuity" should be discouraged across the board,
as opposed to encouraging it with reasonable safety.  This again, strikes me
as immoral.

>I don't have any, but I haven't seen any to the contrary either.
>To me, it's just common sense that if you give someone a condom &
>tell them that it will help them avoid disease and pregnancy
>(i.e. reduce some of the responsibilities that go with the act),
>that they'll be more inclined to have sex because it's physically
>pleasurable and the perceived consequenses are fewer.

Reducing personal risk has nothing to do with responsiblity.  Being aware of
the risks, ensuring that others involved are equally aware of the risks, and
being personally willing to accept the results has everything to do with
responsibility.  Minimizing risk, subject to the benefit, has to do with
intelligent action, not responsible action.
>Again, I don't have any evidence.  Are you saying that European countries

>hand out clean needles in schools?  After all, that's what we're talking
>about.  Schools are where kids learn things.  In my opinion, we can either
>a) teach them not to do dangerous/irresponsible things, or b) teach them
>how to do the dangerous/irresponsible things in a less dangerous manner.
>Both are important, but option a is far superior IMO.
>

I do not advocate spending tax money to hand out condoms, or needles and
syringes.  Simply making them available in the market (as condoms are but
needles and syringes are not), allowing private charities to give them away
if they so desire, and giving honest and complete information, rather than
propaganda and veiled threats would go far to alleviating the problems.

Responsible sex means knowing the possible consequences (positive and negative),
not hiding them from your partners, and being willing accept the results of
your actions.

                                       James Parker
                                       jap@cb1focus.att.com