From: srutt@boulder.Colorado.EDU (DNA Kaifeng)
Subject: Re: $50,000 Divining Rods!
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: 18 Aug 92 01:25:25 GMT

slagle@lmsc.lockheed.com (Mark Slagle) writes:

>Pay attention this time.  It's no boast, it's just fact.  I can't
>"locate hidden objects (metals)", but I can locate underground
                ^^^^^^^
>pipes, at least some of the time which includes every time I have
 ^^^^^
>tried to date that was verifiable.

Should I conclude that a pipe is not an "object"? I'm so confused :)

>Pay attention this time.  I can't perform "dowsing".  That is
>I can't locate water or a good place to drill a well.  I can
>locate underground pipes, not necessarily of ferrous material.

You have previously redefined the word "object" such that it no longer
includes pipes, and now you seem to be redefining "dowsing" such that it 
also no longer includes pipes. Why not simply remove pipes from the
category "thing" and be done with it!

Seriously, in my dictionaries a dowser is one who uses divining rods, 
period. To dowse means to find via divining rods. You have described
what can best be seen as finding via divining rods therefore you are
a dowser. Perhaps you will say you don't use divining rods?

>> In case these gentlemen are interested in putting their abilities
>> to the test (which I doubt), extraordinary evidence might be
>> obtained by having these gentlemen attempt their feats in a 
>> controlled testing environment run by a team of skeptical debunkers.
>> The CSICOP and the SKEPTICAL INQUIRER would probably be happy 
>> to supervise.

>Any time Kurtz and his pals want to come out for a visit, or pay
                                                              ^^^
>for my time and trip back to my old alma mater, I'm ready to
>give it a go.  If you want to sponsor it, that's OK by me.  If
                               ^^^^^^^
>not, then grab a couple of coat hangars and go find your water
>lateral in your front yard.  You can do it, and so can anybody
>else.  I have never met anyone who couldn't do it after having
>the technique explained and demonstrated.

>> Oh by the way, I think the current prize for performing such
>> feats under conditions controlled by the above groups ranges from 
>> $50,000 to $100,000. Call Paul Kurtz at (716)-636-1425 for more
>> information. And if suddenly both of your powers disappear -
>> I'll understand.

>Have Kurtz pay for the call.  I'm not paying for it, because his
            ^^^                        ^^^^^^
>challenge is for dowsing.  Pay attention this time.  I, nor anybody

Here we go with the "object" <> "pipe" thing again:

>else that I know of, can find water or "objects".  I can, and you
                                         ^^^^^^^
>can, find shallow pipes.  If you can get Kurtz to pay for that, I'm
                   ^^^^^                           ^^^
>game.  I have no powers that you don't have, though, so maybe you
>ought to get practicing.  Anybody who says that they have special 
>powers is, at least prima facie, a liar or a fraud.  I make no such 
>claim.

You must either be rich or a fraud. Whaterer you call yourself (I think
you are a "dowser"), you do make certain claims considered in the realm 
of the paranormal. This is precisely the stuff CSISOP was founded for,
and I think you would receive the $$$prize money$$$ if you can do what 
you claim. Therefore, it seems you either don't need the money or don't
think you can pass the test. And considering your above references
to lack of funds, I think I have you backed into a corner. I'm truly
sorry, but I just don't want anyone out there in Netland thinking
that dowsing is real, simply based on untested claims.

>I said most of this on the first time around.  Did you get it
>this time?  I'm not seeking fame and fortune, I'm not pulling

Fine. Simply give the prize money to charity and test anonymously.

>your leg, and I'm not some credulous boob that thinks Geller
                                                       ^^^^^^
>can bend spoons with his neurons.  Hell, I barely even believe
>in you.

>Read, then read carefully, then see if you can understand what
>has been said, scientist, then you can post and imply that I'm 
>a liar.  Jerk.
          ^^^^
Jerk? Mark, there's no need for that sort of behavior. I apologized
for backing you into a corner, but it is a corner you built for
yourself. You make extraordinary claims and are not willing to even 
make a call to have them tested, even when simply doing what you claim
would pay for the call (even a plane flight) many times over. Not only
would it not cost you one dime (if successfull) but imagine your joy
at seeing me eat my words (actually I never said that what you claim
is impossible, simply unlikely). So your excuses (considering all the 
pros and no cons) don't wash with me.

And to back you even further into your corner, there are a few local
organizations you can contact. One is the Bay Area Skeptics. Write,
call or drive 30 miles north to speak with the secretary, 

                           Wilma Russell
                        17723 Buti Park Court
                       Castro Valley, CA 94546

They would probably love to test you. I don't know about prize money,
but at least you can't complain about the cost. And Mark, if you make
extraordinary claims and suspiciously avoid scientific testing like 
you are, then you're no better than Geller. Don't you see?

>--
>----
>Mark E. Slagle                                 PO Box 61059
>slagle@lmsc.lockheed.com                       Sunnyvale, CA   94088
>408-756-0895                                   USA


                                 -steve

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@******************************************
@ email: srutt@beagle.colorado.edu @* "Nothing in biology makes sense except *
@   Dept. of Molecular, Cellular   @*  in the light of evolution."           *
@    and Developmental Biology     @*  - T. Dobzhansky                       *
@ University of Colorado, Boulder  @*                   Opinions are my own. *
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@******************************************