HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rhr9081@hertz.njit.edu (Ray Rich)
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
Subject: Re: Some notes from the Satanic Bible
Date: 22 Aug 92 03:30:49 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <4eWFIsK00Uh_81ObZY@andrew.cmu.edu> rf1o+@andrew.cmu.edu (Raymond Craig Feeck) writes:
>Um, Reuben, you seemed to have missed the point behind my statement
>about the motivations for rape.  Rape is not slavery to sexual desires,
>but rather an assertion of power over another.  In essence, its being
>the master of the earth and indulging in the power one has over another.
> Rapists are not compulsed to do anything.  That was the point of my
>original post.
>
	Ok, why rape?  A few reasons come to mind:
a)  Rapist is insane.
b)  Rapist is overcome by uncontrollable sexual urge
c)  Rapist cannot get sex any other way than by force
d)  Rapist likes the feeling of power over another

	Clearly, reasons a and b are contrary to Satanism.  Reason c implies
that the rapist is taking away another's freedom for his own gratification.
Satanic no no.  Reason d, while seemingly the most compatible with Satanic
reasoning, still finds the rapist a slave to his needs rather than master
of himself.

>Secondly, why should bestiality be wrong.  Its a decision to control the
>world around you.  It may seem sick to some, but it is a choice to do
>what one pleases.  Isn't that merely indulging in a rather bizarre form
>of pleasure.  You haven't resolved what to me seems like a pretty big
>inconsistancy.  
>
	Bestiality is wrong, because the animal does not give you consent.
It is not in an animal's nature to have intercourse with humans.

>I hope you don't take all of this probing and nitpicking the wrong way. 
>I merely want to learn more about what you believe.  As was pointed out,
>I'm not very knowledgable about Satanism, but I'm curious.  I'm very
>interested in finding the truth about the world.  I'm searching through
>the world's religions to discover what really does exist.   Any help
>would be appreciated. 
>
	Good luck.  Reality is subjective.  Can you ever truly find out what
exists?

>Oh, one last question.  Since Satanism really isn't the worship of a
>diety, but rather a system of self indulgence, how can it be considered
>a religion.  Isn't a religion onw which seeks to find God or the power
>behind the universe.  How does Satanism meet this criteria.  
>
	Satanism fits your odd criteria by stipulating that each human is
her/his own god and one must do little more than look within to find it.
The power behind the universe is sage, as in "He who controls the sage,
controls the universe."  :)  I know, bad pun.

>What are y'all's impressions of Jesus, Mohammed, and Confucious?
>
	Pretty neat men, but nothing more than that.  Just men.

>Thanks
>
>Craig Feeck

			Your Welcome,
				Raymond H. Rich
From: dart@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Dartanyan the Witchling)
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
Subject: Re: Survey II
Date: 18 Aug 92 19:31:34 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center

In article <1992Aug18.181445.14608@wimsey.bc.ca> markh@wimsey.bc.ca (Mark C. Henderson) writes:
>In article <920818045236_70253.2621_CHC67-1@CompuServe.COM> 70253.2621@CompuServe.COM (Chris & Susan Colvin) writes:
>> ...  Question: What is life?  Is it energy
>>of some sort? It must be.  It would take some type of energy for our
>>bodies to move, give off heat, make our brain have feelings, etc.  If not

	Excuse me if I'm wrong, I though energy WAS movement, not a prerequi-
site.  Maybe it's just a complex collection of chemicals?  Why does baking soda
and vinegar bubble up?  Does it have some sort of "life force"?

>>energy, then what?  Once this body wears out, or someone plugs it full of
>>lead, or an individual OD's, what happens to this life energy?  If energy

	They stop moving.  The "energy" is gone.  These sentences were
redundant and repeated themselves too.

>>can't be created or destroyed, then something must happen to it.  If that
>>energy contains your personality in an organized form (sine wave?), what
>>happens to your personality?

	A personality is a list of tendency responses based on things you have
done in the past, updated by new reactions constantly.
	If you die, your personality changes.  You don't tend to do anything. 
Corpses do tend to have boring personalities.

>
>I really get tired of people who, with an incomplete understanding of
>the issues involved, try an justify their religious beliefs via 
>pseudo-scientific gibberish.
>
	Me too.  Pseudo-logical gibberish is much more appealing.

>Mark
	Get set, GO!
				DODGER


Newsgroups: alt.satanism
From: timf@microsoft.com (Tim Fleehart)
Subject: Re: FAQ file available?
Date: 11 Aug 92 16:36:35 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article <1992Aug7.024723.5852@uc.msc.edu> eab@msc.edu (Edward Bertsch) writes:
>
>
>Is there a FAQ file available?

No.

>It it possible to get a second mortgage on one's soul?

No.

>There is a company in germany called Hell, is it possible to reach the
>bad guy himself by writing them?

Again, no, sorry.
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
From: timf@microsoft.com (Tim Fleehart)
Subject: Re: I'd sell my soul for ....
Date: 11 Aug 92 15:54:14 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article <BsGvKI.KtC@ecf.toronto.edu> ricegm@ecf.toronto.edu (George Matthew Rice) writes:
>Say the 'devil' :-) came up to you with an offer. What would you
>want for your soul.

I asked for nothing.  But I was given a couple things in return:  freedom
from guilt offered by the god of hypocracy, and the knowledge that my place
in the afterlife is secure.

Did I get ripped off?  Perhaps, I should have said "I'll take that one, that
one, and that cute one over there, and a couple of those..."  Oh well...

Tim
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
From: rdr@panix.com (Reuben Radding)
Subject: Re: Lavey et al
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 04:14:51 GMT
Organization: Doc Porter's Thrills Show


Now, why would you post an article in a Satanists' newsgroup
asking for books "debunking" Satanism? That's pretty dumb.
 Go ahead and read the Satanic Bible, it might not be what you think.
I think you'll find it a great deal more rational that you're 
pre-judgeing it to be. 

After you've read it, then maybe you can tell us what you find "laughable"
within it.

--Reuben
 
-- 
================================================================
|  Reuben Radding         rdr@panix.com       cmcl2!panix!rdr  |
|==============================================================|
| ******************* Marrou / Lord in 1992 ****************** |
From: rdr@panix.com (Reuben Radding)
Subject: Re: Laveyians
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 06:24:34 GMT
Organization: Doc Porter's Thrills Show

In <1992Aug15.033743.13166@cs.mun.ca> brian@odie.cs.mun.ca (Brian Paquet) writes:

>Let me bounce an idea off ya.
>Instead of satanists how about Laveyians??
>The common useage of Satanist, right or wrong
>is those who worship Satan [As far as I can see]
>It seems you define your beliefs with Laveys
>book, in much the same way there are marxists
>and Ayn randians, why not Laveyians.
>It's dosent mean that you agree 100% with the guy
>or he is a guru but I think it would be more accuate
>IMHO.


Let me bounce this off you. 
Anton LaVey created a religion which he named Satanism,
so if I follow that religion I am a Satanist. 
Your suggestion is that we let ourselves be bullied
by incorrect definitions and innacurate usage.
When the Nazi's started saying that Jews sucked the blood from 
Aryan babies the Jews didn't start calling themselves
Mosesians, or Abrahamians. Using Marx and Rand as examples
is impotent since they were philosophers and while Dr. LaVey
is a philosopher he is different: he founded a _religion_.

 
-- 
================================================================
|  Reuben Radding         rdr@panix.com       cmcl2!panix!rdr  |
|==============================================================|
| ******************* Marrou / Lord in 1992 ****************** | 
Newsgroups: alt.satanism,alt.atheism,soc.motss,sci.physics,alt.religion.emacs,talk.religion.newage,alt.pagan,alt.sex,talk.religion.misc
From: Mark.Cornick@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Mark Cornick)
Subject: Re: Subject?
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 03:15:04 GMT

In article <BtCpzu.7n3@ecf.toronto.edu> ricegm@ecf.toronto.edu (George Matthew Rice) writes:
>In article <1992Aug21.155936.14061@ncsu.edu> cmgrawbu@eos.ncsu.edu (CHRISTOPHER M GRAWBURG) writes:
>>
>>>>Jesus Saves
>>
>>>Gretzgy Steals, He shoots, He SCORES!
>>
>>Johnson with the board, down court, drives the lane, no look pass to Worthy
>>with The DUNK!
>
>Gee guys 'n' gals. I would just like to say that this is the very
>best thread that I have seen in this newsgroup so far.
>And it is so topical.
>
>Matthew


Yeah, and funnier than the Republican Convention!

Jesus saves... with 3.9% APR financing over 48 months on the new Park
Avenue! Shouldn't you save too? See your local Plymouth dealer *today!*

Anyone for alt.religion.gretzky?


--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
From: rhr9081@hertz.njit.edu (Ray Rich)
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
Subject: Re: Satan
Date: 12 Aug 92 20:14:33 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <1992Aug10.120944.22715@cs.mun.ca> brian@odie.cs.mun.ca (Brian Paquet) writes:
>
> I have seen this we are satanist but don't worship satan thing
>Facts are By definition a satanist worships or at least
>follows the tenits of satan..
>
	Definitions are subjective.  We're not talking about a simple English 
word here, we're defining a religion.  I think Christianity is predominantly
Nazi fascists.  Does that mean they shouldn't call themselves xians anymore, or
use the cross as a symbol, for that matter?

>But then again why should you care what other people think right
>
>Sounds good, it pisses people off which is a good goal.
>So when I get my PhD in military history I will
>call myself an economist [claiming that I am studingthe
>utilization of militarty resorces] 
>And then I will get the libertarian party to change their
>name to the red shoe party [well they advocate that people
>should wear any colour shoe they want...]
>
	I really couldn't care less what you call yourself.  An asshole by
any other name would sound the same.   

>I know it's representitive and all but still
>I don't buy it, For those who don't
>worship the most bodatious satan to call themselves satan
>reminds me of those poly correct types insisting on
>calling blacks afro americans [what your from Lybia too bad sucker]
>
	Yeah, Ok.

>I FLEX IN YOUR GENERAL DIRECTION!!! :)
>VOLCANO
>
>[geez I guess I will get ripped apart again:(]
	Yep, you will.

						Raymond H. Rich
				Tired of people defining my religion for me!
Xref: sparky alt.satanism:1819 alt.atheism:15496 soc.motss:36155 sci.physics:13192 alt.religion.emacs:311 talk.religion.newage:3895 alt.pagan:8134 alt.sex:27185 talk.religion.misc:14377
Newsgroups: alt.satanism,alt.atheism,soc.motss,sci.physics,alt.religion.emacs,talk.religion.newage,alt.pagan,alt.sex,talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Subject?
From: jkusters@zeus.calpoly.edu (Chrome Jester)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 02:28:57 GMT
Organization: California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo

safecrac@west.darkside.com (Chris Colvin) divulges:
->Jesus Saves

...and redeems for valuable cash prizes!


JOhn.
-- 
/-John A Kusters, jr.----------------------------------------------------______
| jkusters@ares.calpoly.edu & phule@bbs.fubarsys.com                     \    /
Silence keeps us all in darkness, We can't change things overnight;       \  /
But we can shed a little light, Be Political not Polite! -Romanovsky & Phillips
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
From: wyvern@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (The Wyvern)
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
Subject: Re: Subject?
Date: 20 Aug 92 12:30:21 GMT
Organization: The Heavenly Hockey League

In article <FeosPB2w165w@west.darkside.com> safecrac@west.darkside.com (Chris Colvin) writes:
>Jesus Saves
... Gretsky steals, he Scores!
Newsgroups: alt.satanism,alt.atheism,soc.motss,sci.physics,alt.religion.emacs,talk.religion.newage,alt.pagan,alt.sex,talk.religion.misc
From: megazone@wpi.WPI.EDU (MegaZone23)
Subject: Re: Subject?
Organization: WPI USAF -- United Society of Animation Fans
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 15:01:50 GMT

In article <171o75INNabu@matt.ksu.ksu.edu> holland@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Rich Holland) writes:
>jon@Turing.ORG (Jon Gefaell (KD4CQY)) writes:
>>>Jesus Saves
>>Gretzgy Steals, He shoots, He SCORES!
>"Jesus saves souls ... and redeems them for valuable cash & prizes!"  is
>another I once heard...

Jesus is coming!  Someone get the man a towel! is one a friend of mine uses.

Hmmm, maybe you need to hear her say it. :-)

###############################################################################
# I have one prejudice, and that is against stupidity.  Use your mind, think! #
#Email megazone@wpi.wpi.edu  Moderator, WPI anime FTP site 130.215.24.1 /anime#
###############################################################################
Xref: sparky alt.satanism:1760 rec.arts.books:14600
From: rdr@panix.com (Reuben Radding)
Subject: Re: Survey II
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 19:15:02 GMT
Organization: Doc Porter's Thrills Show


On the subject of life energy, and where it goes when you die, 
it seems to me that there is no reason to believe that this "energy"
can exist without the proper conditions or _enviroment_ if you will.
This energy seems to only occur where certain requirements are met.

Not knowing the source of life energy is no reason to then extrapolate
to the point of believing a 2000 year old explanation that was never based
on reason to begin with. Also, life energy does not necsesarily equal
"personality," so there is no reason to believe that the possibility
of life energy continuing beyond "death" in any way means the 
personality goes with it. 
 


-- 
================================================================
|  Reuben Radding         rdr@panix.com       cmcl2!panix!rdr  |
|==============================================================|
| ******************* Marrou / Lord in 1992 ****************** | 
Xref: sparky alt.satanism:1828 alt.atheism:15531 soc.motss:36235 sci.physics:13226 alt.religion.emacs:321 talk.religion.newage:3913 alt.pagan:8157 alt.sex:27210 talk.religion.misc:14405
From: kominetz@cbmvax.commodore.com (John Kominetz - CATS)
Newsgroups: alt.satanism,alt.atheism,soc.motss,sci.physics,alt.religion.emacs,talk.religion.newage,alt.pagan,alt.sex,talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Subject?
Date: 21 Aug 92 14:04:37 GMT
Reply-To: kominetz@cbmvax.commodore.com (John Kominetz - CATS)
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA

In article <FeosPB2w176w@west.darkside.com> safecrac@west.darkside.com (Chris Colvin) writes:
>Jesus Saves

Bush spends.
-- 
                                      __
        John Kominetz, III            \/          Aikido Ki No Kawa
  Commodore Apps and Tech Support           "I speak for myself, not C=."
 ========================================================================
  "The higher you fly, the faster you fall."          -- Laurie Anderson
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
From: J024330@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Subject: Re: Survey II
Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space Company, Inc.
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 20:36:39 GMT

From: markh@wimsey.bc.ca (Mark C. Henderson) writes:

>I really get tired of people who, with an incomplete understanding of
>the issues involved, try an justify their religious beliefs via
>pseudo-scientific gibberish.
>
>Mark

And you have a complete understanding?
From: 70253.2621@CompuServe.COM (Chris & Susan Colvin)
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
Subject: Survey
Date: 17 Aug 92 04:46:12 GMT

When you die, where will you go?  (in the ground is not a valid answer)

If you were to die today, would you go to heaven?

If you were to die today and God asked you, "Why should I let you into my
heaven?" What would you say?

What is my "agenda" for asking these questions?  Just curious.

Bye,
CDC

Xref: sparky alt.satanism:1857 alt.atheism:15626 soc.motss:36488 sci.physics:13331 alt.religion.emacs:342 talk.religion.newage:3966 alt.pagan:8223 alt.sex:27364 talk.religion.misc:14527
From: malcolm@cs.su.oz.au (Malcolm Bjorn Gillies)
Newsgroups: alt.satanism,alt.atheism,soc.motss,sci.physics,alt.religion.emacs,talk.religion.newage,alt.pagan,alt.sex,talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Subject?
Date: 22 Aug 92 06:05:06 GMT
Reply-To: malcolm@cluster.cs.su.oz (Malcolm Bjorn Gillies)
Organization: Basser Dept of Computer Science, University of Sydney, Australia

In article <1992Aug21.055341.4395@ccu.umanitoba.ca> cweiss@ccu.umanitoba.ca (christopher gene weiss) writes:
>In article <a-_ngw-.ekman@netcom.com> ekman@netcom.com (Crossly the Glad-Eyed Bear) writes:
>>In article <FeosPB2w176w@west.darkside.com> safecrac@west.darkside.com (Chris Colvin) writes:
>>>Jesus Saves
>>
>>Moses invests.
>>-- 
>>Crossly the Glad-Eyed Bear              ekman@netcom.com
>>Home for the Terminally Infirm, Redwood City, California
>
>Jesus saves!
>Moses invests.
>But only Buddha pays dividends...

The Mongol Hordes.

Malcolm
--
Curse you yogurt! You have brought me to a condition where only death
offers solace! A solace that is denied.
Xref: sparky alt.satanism:1822 alt.atheism:15503 soc.motss:36168 sci.physics:13196 alt.religion.emacs:313 talk.religion.newage:3900 alt.pagan:8139 alt.sex:27187 talk.religion.misc:14383
From: holland@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Rich Holland)
Newsgroups: alt.satanism,alt.atheism,soc.motss,sci.physics,alt.religion.emacs,talk.religion.newage,alt.pagan,alt.sex,talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Subject?
Date: 20 Aug 1992 22:33:57 -0500
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: matt.ksu.ksu.edu

jon@Turing.ORG (Jon Gefaell (KD4CQY)) writes:

>>Jesus Saves
>Gretzgy Steals, He shoots, He SCORES!

Take a look at my .sig.  :-)  It's been that way for at least a year now...

"Jesus saves souls ... and redeems them for valuable cash & prizes!"  is
another I once heard...

-- 
Rich Holland              | INTERNET: holland@matt.ksu.ksu.edu
100 Jardine Terr, Apt A7  | BITNET  : holland@ksuvm
Manhattan, KS  66502-3357 | UUCP    : ...!rutgers!matt.ksu.ksu.edu!holland
"Jesus saves...but Gretzky gets the rebound!  He shoots!  He scores!!"
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
From: rdr@panix.com (Reuben Radding)
Subject: Re: Survey
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 04:05:58 GMT
Organization: Doc Porter's Thrills Show

In <920817044611_70253.2621_CHC74-1@CompuServe.COM> 70253.2621@CompuServe.COM (Chris & Susan Colvin) writes:

>When you die, where will you go?  (in the ground is not a valid answer)


Of course it is a valid answer, and that is precisely where
I will go.



I doubt it, as I doubt that there is such a place. If there is
a place called heaven I have seen no evidence that it exists.

>heaven?" What would you say?


"I've never been especially interested in going to heaven, so the choice
is all yours, God."
 

I trust this answers your questions. . .


-- 
================================================================
|  Reuben Radding         rdr@panix.com       cmcl2!panix!rdr  |
|==============================================================|
| ******************* Marrou / Lord in 1992 ****************** | 
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
From: locklin@titan.ucc.umass.edu (SCOTT C LOCKLIN)
Subject: Satanic Murder Taskforce
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst
Distribution: alt.satanism
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 21:58:40 GMT
X-Posted-From: titan.ucc.umass.edu
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1992Aug20.214551.5939@ctr.columbia.edu> locklin@titan.ucc.umass.edu (SCOTT C LOCKLIN) writes:

I found this in alt.drugs. Its relevance to this newsgroup should be obvious.

From sol.ctr.columbia.edu!destroyer!gatech!rutgers!news.cs.indiana.edu!hagerp@moose.cs.indiana.edu Thu Aug 20 17:36:11 EDT 1992
Article: 32853 of alt.drugs
Xref: sol.ctr.columbia.edu alt.drugs:32853 talk.politics.drugs:10425
From: rdr@panix.com (Reuben Radding)
Subject: Re: Some notes from the Satanic Bible
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 06:47:54 GMT
Organization: Doc Porter's Thrills Show

In <UeW22Y200Uh7I4LX4r@andrew.cmu.edu> Raymond Craig Feeck <rf1o+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:

>  If Satanism is the antithesis of Christianity, why should only sex
>between consenting adults be okay.  The abuse of kids, bestiality, and
>rape are all condemned by the Bible.  In fact, Western condemnation of
>these acts has its roots in Christian morality.  In fact, almost all of
>traditional  morality in the West has its roots from the Bible. 
>Shouldn't Satanism do away with these last remaing barriers?  

It doesn't surprise me that you ask this question since you are
relying on the post and not the _Satanic Bible_ itself. A major axiom
of the Satanic religion is "indulgence, NOT compulsion." The Satanist
is a master of the Earth. He (she) is one who seeks control of the world
around him, not slavery to it.

So, in a sense you answer your own questions when you say:
 
>Any physchologist will tell you that the prime motivation for rape is a
>power motive, not a sexual longing.  If the purpose of Satanism if for
>people to seek personal power, shouldn't rape be not only accepted, but
>lauded?

If you are raping people because of your own compulsive urges then
you are decidedly NOT indulging. To indulge is to make a choice
based on self-awareness. As LaVey says in _the Satanic Bible_:

"The *true* Satanist is not mastered by sex any more than he is
mastered by any of his other desires."

>Lastly, what does it matter if the code of Satanism conforms with state
>laws?  Christianity makes a big stink about obeying one's authoritites,
>civil or otherwise.  Why should Satanists care?

This is because we demand the freedom to indulge--a freedom which
demands protection by certain laws (certainly not ALL the ones
presently in operation). It is not a policy of obeying athority
for athority's sake, but of obeying the laws of the land so as
to preserve your personal freedom to indulge. 

 
-- 
================================================================
|  Reuben Radding         rdr@panix.com       cmcl2!panix!rdr  |
|==============================================================|
| ******************* Marrou / Lord in 1992 ****************** |
From: m23364@mwunix (James Meritt)
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
Subject: Re: Survey II
Date: 18 Aug 92 13:38:04 GMT
Organization: MITRE Corporation, McLean VA

In article <920818045236_70253.2621_CHC67-1@CompuServe.COM> 70253.2621@CompuServe.COM (Chris & Susan Colvin) writes:
}I asked:
}
}1. Where would you go after you die?  (in the ground is not a valid
}answer)

And I would answer"If you've been REAL bad, Pascagoula Mississippi" with a
grin.

}Question: What is life?  Is it energy
}of some sort? It must be. 

Why must it be?

}It would take some type of energy for our
}bodies to move, give off heat, make our brain have feelings, etc.

I'd say USES energy, but I would not say it IS energy.

}Once this body wears out, or someone plugs it full of
}lead, or an individual OD's, what happens to this life energy?  

Since there is no evidence that I am aware of of such a thing, why must
ANYTHING "happen" to it?

}If energy
}can't be created or destroyed, then something must happen to it.

Since it isn't, it doesn't.

}Anyone interested in expanding on these matters a little further, keep it
}on the discussion group.  I won't be checking Compuserve for awhile.

OK.

}Caio!

Harry Fraderchi.
Xref: sparky alt.satanism:1820 alt.atheism:15497 soc.motss:36156 sci.physics:13193 alt.religion.emacs:312 talk.religion.newage:3896 alt.pagan:8135 alt.sex:27186 talk.religion.misc:14379