From: kester@mte.ncsu.edu (Dan Kester)
Subject: Re: Stereo Review (was Re: Very expensive cables)
Organization: North Carolina State University 
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 14:11:24 GMT

In article <7490236@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM> myers@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Bob Myers)
writes:
>
>Oh damn, yet another person who appears to be intentionally missing the point
>of the "engineers' and scientists'" posts about cable.  Look, I'll try to
>spell it out one more time, as simply as possible.
>
>1. NOBODY is saying that it's impossible for there to be audible differences
>   between cables.  Anyone who has compared 12 AWG to 18 AWG, all else being
>   equal, would believe that it is possible for a cable change to make a
>   difference in the sound.
>
>2. What IS being said - and consistently, repeatedly, MISSED (so often that
>   I have a hunch it's simply denial) - is that whatever differences that may
>   exist are NOT for some of the wilder reasons that the cable manufacturers
>   present as inducement to buy their product, and in fact are due to some
>   very ordinary and well-understood things that DON'T require you to spend
>   $100/ft. to duplicate.  (Which - dare I say it? - just MIGHT be the reason
>   said manufacturers want you to believe the aforementioned bogus reasons!)
>   In other words, pay attention to some basics with quite ordinary
>   materials, and you can duplicate the results.
>
>Was that clear enough?
>
Actually, it was too clear and oversimplified.  You may be summarizing your own
views, but many of the posts have been much more extreme.  Specifically, it has
been suggested that we don't really hear actual differences, we're just
imagining them.  It's been said that measurements show that there are minor
differences, but we can't hear them since the differences would be inaudible. 
It's also been said that all the differences we hear are only "anecdotes" and
don't mean anything unless we perform well controlled scientific studies and
publish them in JAES.

As to your point #2, many of us do not have the facilities for manufacturing
and/or measuring our own cables.  Since we realize that the ads are mostly hype
(as are most ads for anything), we have to try different cables ourselves and,
by listening, decide which one we prefer.  If you can suggest a generic
off-the-shelf cable that will sound as good as the $100/ft cable, let us know. 
If it actually sounds as good we'll be eternally grateful!

Let me spell out what one "differences exist" person says (I won't try to speak
for all of us):

1. Different cables sound different.  In a good system the differences in many
cases are obvious and not at all subtle.

2. In terms of choosing a cable, the most important factor is how they sound to
you in your system.  The reasons they sound that way may or may not be of
interest to you, but shouldn't be the determining factor in a decision.  How
the cables measure electrically is to me not particularly interesting. Whether
the differences I hear are due to "psychoacoustic" reasons only, is an
interesting philosophical issue, but again not a factor in any decision.  The
underlying physical cause of differences, whether it's crystal purity, crystal
structure, type of impurities, grain alignment, grain boundary components,
defect structure, or whatever, is of much interest to me.  Being a materials
scientist I know that all these can influence the conduction of electricity
through a material.  But, again, these factors won't determine which cables I
choose, listening will.

3. As with all audio components, the relationship between cost and sound
quality is nonlinear.  If I can find a $1.99 cable that sounds the same as a
$200 cable, I'll take the cheaper.  I would RATHER spend less!

Was that clear enough?

One last point: this discussion is often depicted as engineers and scientists
versus non-engineers and scientists.  It's not so.

Dan Kester
kester@mte.ncsu.edu