HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: markk@pongo.West.Sun.COM (Mark Allen Kampe)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Sex? Magic??
Date: 4 Jan 1993 16:54:10 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: markk@pongo.West.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: pongo71.west.sun.com

I didn't see, in the original post, any reason to believe that the "leader"
of these sexual rites had any malevolent purpose.  To be sure, there have
been people who use sexual rites as a way of gaining control over others -
but they can also be a source of liberation.  Perhaps I missed something,
but the more paranoid sub-threads seem to me like an over-reaction.

If, indeed, the goal here is to use the sexual switches to shake up the
ego, I can see the value of "adjacent rooms".  The partner having sex with
a stranger would be less self conscious and so likely to give themselves more
fully to the experience.  The partner listening would (presumably) be sitting
alone in silence and thus more receptive/susceptable to the "lesson".

I do not necessarily think this particular exercise is the answer to very 
many of our problems, but I can see a basis for its potency.

My question is how initiates are selected.  If this "therapy" is provided
to all comers, I would be concerned about just how salutory its effects
were likely to be.  If, on the other hand, the participants are selected
people who are likely to derive benefit, strength and growth ... it sounds
like "just another bunch of harmless LA nuts".

As to worrying about how such revelations affect the way that magick is
perceived by the puritanical masses ... I fear that cause is so lost that
this pecadillo is only spitting into the ocean.  Meaningful exploration 
of the realms behind the veil have never enjoyed support or even acceptance
from the "main stream".  Developing the strength to pursue your investigations
despite disapproval is an important (and I feel necessary) step along the path.

Analyze your options, understand the likely consequences of your actions,
make your decisions carefully, and then dedicate yourself fully to the 
path you have chosen.  To choose a hard but rewarding path and then complain
about how hard it is ...
From: cranmer@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Keeping Silence
Date: 6 Jan 93 10:46:47 EST
Organization: The Ohio State University, Department of Physics

Hello,

mike.mcaulay@spacebbs.com (Mike Mcaulay) writes...

> cranmer@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu writes:
> -> I think one reason that this isn't seen often on alt.magick is
> -> something called the '4th power of the Sphinx:' keeping silence.
> -> Another reason could be a mundane one (at least for me):  I don't
> -> really CARE if your evocation of the dread Dormammu, or whatever,
> -> succeeded or failed.  What I would be curious about are the
> -> *generalities*:  *how* was your ritual constructed?  What
> -> religo-mystico-philosophical system are you using? etc.
> 
> Why care how a ritual was constructed if it fails?

Why not?  Maybe the magician was having a bad day? :-)

> I must confess my membership in the less-maundering-more-nuts-n-bolts
> minority.  I've been an avid reader of alt.magick for eight months now,
> but most of the useful information I've gleaned has been stuff that
> has, as it were, "leaked out" of posts on topics only obliquely related
> to my interests.

Hmmm, I didn't know that ritual construction and magical theory weren't
"nuts-n-bolts" topics.   One of my favorite old posts was one by Paul
Clark (are you still out there?) concerning introductory ritual technique.
Very practical and useful, IMHO.

> Finally, why should the "4th power" apply to technique, but not to
> theory?

It shouldn't, if you don't want it to.  I don't think it should either.
All I said was that people generally like to keep their *results* to
themselves.  I'm all for discussion on technique *and* theory.

>  I'm not suggesting we open up the floor to questions like
> "how can I turn my aunt Matilda into a toad," just remarking that I
> believe the group would be better served by a relaxation of the tacit
> rule against discussing technique.  After all, if not here, where?  I
> note with some peevishness that of the two direct requests for
> information which I have posted here one drew zero replies, and the
> other only two, whereas my requests for programming info average around
> eight.

Remember, this group has a much smaller readership than the programming
groups.  Also, there are *many* different 'schools' of magic around.

> This bothers me not only because I'd rather have the knowledge
> than lack it, but also because it implies that such questions are
> somehow beneath the dignity of the group.  I say, "bunk."  Everyone
> begins in ignorance, and there is nothing dishonorable in seeking advice
> and assistance, nor in proferring same when asked to do so.

No argument here.  I hope I didn't give the impression of turning my
nose up at such questions (or being a 'giggling schoolgirl').

Steve Cranmer
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: drake+@cs.cmu.edu (Drake)
Subject: Re: Bricklaying Techniques
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 10:05:15 GMT

shaman@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Shaman) writes:

>	After seeing several requests for practical information, I thought
>I'd break the ice and toss one out fo discussion/dissection.

Appreciated, shaman.  This is very much what I was looking for.

>	When doing a ritual that calls for some precious metal, I really can't
>see going out and buying some just to make a one use talisman.  I've found
>that forming the talisman out of the etheric essence of the material is
>almost as effective, and much more affordable.

	*details deleted*

>I then visualize a small bit of my aura.  I subtly change this bit of myself
>until it takes on the properties of the material I need.  I use this bit of
>my aura to construct an astral copy of the talisman for the ritual.

Do you connect this astral copy with a physical object?  Have you used the
actual metals, and if so, do you find that it works differently when you
do?  If so, how?

-- 
Love and Laughter,             | NOTE: Private mail must go explicitly
Xeper and Remanifest,          | to drake@seismo.soar.cs.cmu.edu
                       DRAKE   | or it'll bounce back to you...
From: lance@Circle.Raleigh.NC.US (Lance A. Brown)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: What new innovation, software or products d
Date: 12 Jan 93 13:23:45 GMT
Organization: The Full Circle BBS, Raleigh NC - DOS/Waffle 1.65

shaman@cix.compulink.co.uk (Leo Smith) writes:
> In-Reply-To: <1ifosuINNntk@smaug.West.Sun.COM> armand@camel.West.Sun.COM (Arm
> 
> 
> >How about an AI program to weed out, automagically, all the >>>>>>>>>>unwant
> tisements coming
> >  from automatically posted nonsense to world wide unix bbs'?
> 
> How about an AI program to send rude notes to people who create 
> enormously long lines in usenet postings:-
> 
> YOU HAVE SINNED AGAINST "GETS()". YOUR GONADS WILL BE AUTOMAGICALLY 
> TRUNCATED!

Better yet, AI software to automatically SCREAM loudly at someone who posts 
the same message INDIVIDUALLY to a whole bunch of newsgroups.....

Lance


--
The Full Circle
 Domain: lance@circle.raleigh.nc.us (Lance A. Brown)  [ preferred ]
  Bangs: ...!wolves!circle!lance
From: sirbyte@brewich.hou.tx.us (William hancock)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: ABRA-MELIN QUERY
Date: Fri, 08 Jan 93 00:53:17 CST
Organization: The Brewers' Witch BBS, +1 713 272 7350, Brewich.Hou.TX.US

mike.mcaulay@spacebbs.com (Mike Mcaulay)  writes:

> I'd like to hear opinions on the feasibility of performing the
> Abra-Melin working while simultaneously carrying on one's daily life.
> Barring a financial windfall from unforeseen quarters I am at a loss to
> see how I will ever be able to arrange to have six months in which to
> withdraw from distractions and interruptions.
> 
> M.
>                                                            
The feasibility is fine you do mild Aberamelin magicks daily.  In just 
thinking of ritual or contemplating astral works.  The 'Oh My God' ritual 
of which he writes is just one example.  The only thing different from 
his rituals and ours 'basicaly' is Aberamelin works are completly Astral 
and use no cerimonial tools.

------------------
sirbyte@brewich.hou.tx.us (William hancock)
Origin: The Brewers' Witch BBS -- Houston, TX -- +1 713 272 7350
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe)
Subject: Re: Sex? Magic??
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 03:38:42 GMT

mark.terka@rose.com (mark terka) writes:

> T(> What is sex magick?

>The use of the sex act (either hetero/homo) in ritual context to achieve
>magical energies otherwise unattainable through conventional Magickal
>Ritual.

Um, this is a very narrow definition of sex magic.  Most of the sex magic I
have done has been either symbolic or autoerotic.  Only once, in the few years
that I have used sex magic, has it been actual and partnered.  And then, it 
didn't require "the sex act" per se--just loving erotic action between us.

Also, I do not find that sex magic is reaching for something which is
"otherwise unattainable".  Sex magic is just one way of many to raise energy.
Like all methods, it it more suited for certain purposes than others, but it
is not the deep secret which you shall use only when all else fails.  

On another point, the one time I did partnered actual sex magic, it was very
much not in a ritual setting.  The only thing which we did to make it magical
was to agree that we were intending to do magic.  On a side note, though I
dearly love magical ritual, I will point out that *any* sort of energy can
be raised without resorting to ritual.

Enjoy the journey!
                      --Br'anArthur
                                      Queer, Peculiar, and Wyrd! :-)

******************************************************************************
"We are secretly replacing the fine quartz crystals this medicine pouch maker
usually uses with Folgers crystals.  Let's see what happens...."
                                      --DACCrowell
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: shaman@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Shaman)
Subject: Bricklaying Techniques
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 02:25:14 GMT

Greetings!

	After seeing several requests for practical information, I thought
I'd break the ice and toss one out fo discussion/dissection.
	When doing a ritual that calls for some precious metal, I really can't
see going out and buying some just to make a one use talisman.  I've found that
forming the talisman out of the etheric essence of the material is almost as
effective, and much more affordable.  To do this, I find a small sample of the
material needed.  I then study it in depth, noting as many details about the
material as possible, its color, texture, moldability, smell, taste, etc.
I then visualize a small bit of my aura.  I subtly change this bit of myself
until it takes on the properties of the material I need.  I use this bit of
my aura to construct an astral copy of the talisman for the ritual.  
	I have a pet theory as to why this works well.  I realize that I am
not duplicating the exact essence of the material.  I feel that the expenditure
of my own energy in the process makes up for the difference.  In this way, the
entire process becomes alchemical, because I am transmuting myself as I am 
correcting imperfections in the astral talisman.
any and all comments on this technique are welcome.  I hope others
Will follow suit and post.  It is true that only so much can be said about
the basic external trappings of magick, but nifty little techniques like this
one are wonderful topics of discussion for both the novice and the advanced.

========  
 I(  )I     David A. Melton                      
 I \/ I     shaman@mentor.cc.purdue.edu                                        
 I /\ I     Priest, Our Lady of the Hourglass Wiccan Church  
 I(  )I     Blest be thee and thine!
========








-- 
========  
 I(  )I     David A. Melton                      
 I \/ I     shaman@mentor.cc.purdue.edu                                        
 I /\ I     Priest, Our Lady of the Hourglass Wiccan Church
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 20:12:47 EST
From: <MSC118@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Mailing list please.

Greetings,
      Can you please place me on your mailing list.
      Thanks in advance,
                       Mike
From: tonya@csa2.lbl.gov (TONYA PUONCEY)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Keeping Silence
Date: 7 Jan 1993 12:09 PST
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory - Berkeley, CA, USA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.254.197
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

Hey, I was going to post the rest of my Tarot card spread this morning but I
was unable to actually post it and I lost about 500 words because I stripped
the header out and sent it.  Anyway, I'll finish it tomorrow.  But 
I just wanted to know who had an opinion on Crowley's Admonition "TACERE"
or 'to be quiet'.... 
but why did he feel the need to write so much?  I know that he always uses
abreviations for names, etc. but he is PERSONALLY revealing a lot of stuff,
like in _Magick w/out Tears_, he tells about how he always was invisible all
of the time, etc.

I don't know
(19)93
(19)
93

later
-tom
temp. address:  TONYA@LBL.BITNET
From: eddie@hermes.oit.unc.edu (Edward M. Averett)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Magical Operation and Babies. ..
Summary: Oi, it's here. ....!
Keywords: birth, baby, magick
Date: 5 Jan 93 22:52:43 GMT
Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill

Eddie and Shava would like to announce the birth of their son, Joseph Francis
Nicholai Averett, on 1-4-93 at 6:36 pm.  After more or less nine months of
constant evoking, the gods answered appropriately.  Blessed be.....

Followup email may be replied to at joseph@hermes.oit.unc.edu . .. tee-hee. .

			Papa Eddie, bunny father. ...
From: thig@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Terence P Higgins)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: re: looking for information on abortifacents
Date: 9 Jan 1993 01:06:38 GMT
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4
Originator: thig@csd4.csd.uwm.edu

the story so far:
dart@symphony.cc.purdue.edu (Dartanyan) writes:
>       No jokes or flames, please.  This is a situation in which the
> choice lies between the death of a fetus and the death of my wife.
>
>       Thank You.
>                                               Sean Cannon
> --

Abortion is still legal in the USA, and is probably available at
local student health centers (posted from Purdue) and women's
health centers (available by referral, probably) ... you should
check your options before subjecting your wife to an EXTREMELY
dangerous procedure when performed by amateurs... you sound bent
on risking her life. Unnecessarily. Unless you can come up with
some VERY good reasons why your wife can't get a safe, legal
abortion, I doubt that anyone on this newsgroup is irresponsible
enough to give you the information in the form you requested.
A.Lizard

Here, Here. I agree wholeheartedly. The post from this man's "wife" did
nothing to convince me. In fact, I'm even more suspicious now than at
first. Please stay away from this... Again, just one man's opinion.
From: "sonia brock" <sonia.brock@canrem.com>
Subject: the second coming
Reply-To: "sonia brock" <sonia.brock@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: alt
Date: 9 Jan 93 14:14:48 EST


              Thoughts on Yeat's THE SECOND COMING
by Sonia Brock  December 1, 1992

     William Butler Yeats, the Irish poet and playwright, was an
early member of the magical Golden Dawn Society.  He maintained
an interest in Irish archetypal legend and mystical thought
throughout his life.  His poetry has a reputation for being
difficult.  Between the Irishness and the mysticism a kind of
personal spiritual shorthand evolved of the kind that can be
witnessed to an even greater degree in the works of the poet and
artist, William Blake.

     Poets are also prophets and, in Ireland, they are holy as
the bards were holy.  One poem by Yeat's, 'The Second Coming',
stands out like a beacon of prophecy.  In 'The Second Coming',
Yeats wrote of another, latter day, Nativity.  A core concept
contained within the poem is the idea of history as a gyre or
spiral, going round and round, widening out and coming back not
to exactly the same place but to a more or less parallel place.
     Yeats wrote:

     "Turning and turning in the widening gyre
      The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
      Things fall apart..."

     In the cyclical theory of history things MUST fall apart.
It is not the centre which holds them, there is no orthodoxy
which can bind them.  Events must turn and turn ever evading the
centre but held to the pattern by an upward or forward tendency
which is sometimes called progress.  The centre may be the
balance point but, as it is never reached, there is no stasis.

      "... The falcon does not hear the falconer;
      Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold..."

     If the falconer is leadership and we are the falcon then
with each turn of the gyre or spiral we are further from that
leadership.  The answer for mankind in history is not in a
centralized government or group.  The answer is not in the
centre.  In Egypt a very stable society seemed to disprove this
but ...
      "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold..."
       Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world..."

     We have a centre within us based on past experience and on
an intellectual idea of how we want things to be.  The
intellectual idea is not our true spiritual centre.  Unless we
are vigilant, this central core of ideas becomes a fortress
against change.  Fortresses and orthodoxies require great effort
to maintain in proportion to their increasing falsity and
distance from evolving events.

     "Things fall apart..."

     The effort to break out of a mould, break new ground, to
move freely is frightening and the mind cries out but...

     "the centre cannot hold...."

Sonia Brock
---
  DeLuxe 1.25 #4202  >> Books are the true University <<
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
From: cranmer@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Keeping Silence (was: testin' this stupid editor)
Date: 5 Jan 93 19:08:41 EST
Organization: The Ohio State University, Department of Physics

Hello,

tonya@csa2.lbl.gov (TONYA PUONCEY / T. Conlon?) writes...

> Anyway, I was wondering how many people can honestly say that they have 
> had success with invocations, evocations, divinations, etc.
>
> All this philosophical maundering, but who can say what they've _DONE_
> and had or not had success with.

I think one reason that this isn't seen often on alt.magick is something
called the '4th power of the Sphinx:' keeping silence.  Another reason
could be a mundane one (at least for me):  I don't really CARE if your
evocation of the dread Dormammu, or whatever, succeeded or failed.  What
I would be curious about are the *generalities*:  *how* was your ritual
constructed?  What religo-mystico-philosophical system are you using? etc.

Some of us may happen to like the 'philosophical maundering' found on
alt.magick.  It's the reason I read it, not to hear about the success or
failure of someone's personal magical operations.

(Well, except for Eddie and Shava's:  congrats, guys!!!)

> Books, papers, Jesus, AC, yeah yeah yeah
> but we're alive, and they're not!!!!

They had a lifetime's worth of experience, and wrote it all down.
While we shouldn't substitute their experience for ours, it would be
stupid to ignore it.

> Eagerly awaiting a horde of responses!!!
> NO MORE FLAMES!

I honestly hope you don't think this was a flame.

Steve Cranmer
From: lazarus@matt.ksu.ksu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Programmable staff (?)
Date: 8 Jan 1993 02:37:45 -0600
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: matt.ksu.ksu.edu

I'm posting this question for a friend:

	While gazing through a local magick shop, I came across
some pre-programmed wands for defence and love.  When I asked the
sales-lady what one programs on a wand, she said the crystal.
Well, I am creating a staff in which I've fixed a large crystal
on top.  I have since decided to add two leather bags each with a
crystal inside it to the sides of the staff.  Now if my crystal
on top of the staff is my CPU, I have a 3.5 and a 5.25 dual drive
staff.  I will program various crystals with various effects and
remove and replace these crystals as warranted from the bags.
At first I thought this was rather funny, but now I wonder if this
is actually possible.  Is there any information out there on
programming crystals?

That's it!  Any info and/or opinions would be greatly appreciated!

PS... how would I install a hard drive into my staff?  Do I have to
worry about virus spells?

Bart -Laz- Smith
The Stenographer 'Cat!

Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: drake+@cs.cmu.edu (Drake)
Subject: Re: Wicca, luck
Summary: Use of black beans
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 09:18:58 GMT

In article <1993Jan4.080339.17431@riscsm.scripps.edu> mcohan@scripps.edu (Max Cohan) writes:

>they look like plain ol' black beans... 
>the sign on the basket said 'take two and carry them with you for good luck'
>
>so what is the basis for this?  will some magickally clued person explain :)

A very potent magic indeed.  If you took two, and carried them with you, and
honestly and fervently believed that they would bring you good luck - or even
if you were skeptical but hopeful - you would soon start to see evidence
that they were indeed effective.  It has less to do with the beans themselves
than with the interpretation of phenomena that this action would cause you
to have...

-- 
Love and Laughter,             | NOTE: Private mail must go explicitly
Xeper and Remanifest,          | to drake@seismo.soar.cs.cmu.edu
                       DRAKE   | or it'll bounce back to you...
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: Vossdavi@student.msu.edu (Lisa  Ann)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: abortifacents
Followup-To: alt.magick
Date: 12 Jan 1993 05:05:04 GMT
Organization: Chaotic Goods
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: cemmac19.cem.msu.edu

 Is
> >there any way of actually knowing with any degree of certainty that this
> man
> >is telling the truth? Isn't there at least the possibility that he's not
> >being honest and wants this information for some devious purpose? that's
> my
> >objection.
> >
> 
> 
> I believe the man, as the pregnant woman herself posted over on alt.pagan,
> before this thread crept into alt.magick.
> 
> Blessings!
> --Kim

     Not to be a pain, but how do we know that was really his wife and not
him posting in her name? Just asking.
     
     Blessings, Lisa Ann, or she who is always asking annoying questions.

********************************************************************************
     There's no such thing as a stupid question if you honestly don't know
the answer and want it. -D.P. Voss
********************************************************************************