Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: liuyh@vis.toronto.edu (Yuanhui Liu)
Subject: Re: What about China done to Korea
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto
Date: 20 Aug 92 21:11:11 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.202843.17912@u.washington.edu> yeonwook@hardy.u.washington.edu (Mark Choi) writes:
>In article <9208201945.AA12374@nero.wustl.edu> dickhoff@NERO.WUSTL.EDU writes:
>>
>>In article <1992Aug20.004700.13613@news.acns.nwu.edu> usenet@news.acns.nwu.edu (Usenet on news.acns) writes:
>>> 
>>>You are logically wrong. It's the governments who need to apologize. Since  
>>>Chinese government has not apologized to the Korean people, why should we be  
>>>so  
>>>
>>>Carl
This shows how much you know about East Asian history, for the last
millinum or so China and Korea had been allies running around to save
their butts against all the invaders.  As for the Ancient wars, I doubt
we should apologize on behalf of Han & Sui Dynasty, if so Italy has 
to apologize to England for the Roman invasion of the Isles.  :-)   
Tang Dynasty put its noses in Korea around 7th century, this is true, 
but the result is that Tang's Korean ally Shilla(?) unified Korea 
and troops of Tang withdrew shortly after.  I don't know, surly some
ancient Koreans were pissed, but some would thank their Tang Ally?
They also jointly roasted a Japanese fleet off Korean coast.  

Since then various Chinese & Korean Dynasties were busy help each other
to fight off the Mongols, the Manchurians, the Japanese, and other
nomads drooling for the rich Chinese and Korean territories.  

China can't apologize for the Mongols and Manchurians founded the Yuan
and Qing Dynasties.  They were attacking China at the same time
while they were attacking the Korea.  Well, at least the Manchurians
sort of "melted" into the main Chinese culture and almost disappeared, 
at least there is a partial revenge.    

So what's there to aplogize to the Koreans?  I think we should shake
hands and thank each other of our historical alliance against japanese
aggressors, and then ask for apologies from Japan!  
>>
>>I am not sure if you are a Korean or Japanese or Chinese.  As a Chinese, to
>>the best of my knowledge, the last time Chinese invading to Korean was 
>>between Sui and Tang Dynasties. Of course, there must be several attempts,
>>but all were inbetween a time span of about 50 years.  Later, of course
>>Mongolian and Manchurian had invaded Korea.  But do you think today's Chinese
>>should apology to Korean for those once nomad people?:-)  Maybe you know
>>more about Korean history.  Correct me if I am wrong.
>
>No, I believe today's Han Chinese people should not be forced to apologize to
>Koreans on crimes committed by previous generations.
>
>>The invasion attempt in Sui Dynasties was completed failed.  The Sui
>>Emperor wanted conquered Korean without a battle.  It was said only
>>conquering without a battle, or with only "humane" battles, could make
>>people really submissive in "mind".   But Sui emperor was not ZuGe Lian,
>>and Korean were not "Southern Barbarian" by all means.  Sui emperor's
>>army was completely defeated by Korean.   Later, in Tang Dynasty General
>>Xi led army to invade Korea.  From what I have read, I have not seen any
>>record about atrocity towards Korean civilian.   Anyway, it has been over
>>more than 1000 years.
>
>You must be thinking of the Sui attacks on Koguryo, the northernmost 
>kingdom on the peninsula?
>
The second and last Emperor of Sui was a "Dan Quayle" kind of leader, ;-)
he;s done worse sins, namely "honey, I digged the big Canal but the Empire
fell apart!"  ;->  

>>As to Mongolian atrocity to Korean people, I think it was very likely.
>>Because they had done a lots atrocitie to Chinese people.    As to
>>Manchurian, most of time they were friends of Korean people.  Many times
>>Qing Dynasty helped Korean peopel expelled Japanese invasion army out
>>of Korean peninsular. I think Qing Dynasty had done much more good than
>>bad to Korean.
>
>I would hardly think the relationship between Qing and Yi Korea was 
>good. In fact, everything had been going fine until Qing wiped out
>Ming (the last real han dynasty), then the nomadic "barbarians" in
>the minds of Koreans and Han Chinese ravaged Korea in an attempt to
>recieve the same kind of friendship between the previous Yi-Ming.
>Oh, and the barbarian Qing didn't do anything to help Yi Korea, in fact,
>the Han Chinese Ming Dynasty was the one that helped Korea defend 
>against Hideyoshi. In any case, I still do not believe today's Han
>Chinese generation owes anything for their ancestor's misdoings
>(which is very small anyway). Same for the Manchus (misdoings much 
>larger larger then Han).
>
Correct.  Ming really stretched out for Korea, during that period
Ming was already in its last days, it didn't really needed the war. 
Both Ming and Qing knew that they have to help Korea, otherwise
Japan was going to use it as a beachhead for attacking China,
Ming succeeded and Qing failed.  

>>As to Korean War, I don't think you would call it Chinese invasion.:-)
>>I think had Chinese really invaded Korean in last 1000 years, Chou
>>EnLai would have already apologized to Korean people.   To the best
>>of my knowledge, Chou didn't make any such kind of apology to North
>>Korean; wheras Chou made apology to Vietnam for Chinese invasion
>>to Vietnam in Ming Dynasty.
>>
[......] 


Y. Liu 


Newsgroups: soc.culture.china