HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: enough already.
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 01:07:38 GMT


In article <f1+p#v=.foucault@netcom.com> foucault@netcom.com
(Howard Arthur Faye) writes:

>In article <1992Sep29.190250.23521@macc.wisc.edu>
anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:

>>However, dearest Robert, on the subject of Richard Strauss,
>>especially his operas Elektra, Salmoe, and Die Frau ohne
>>Schatten, I think Clay's adoration is more than
>>well-founded, since I share his taste for them.

>The only truly obstinate characteristic possessed by Clay
>(and now, seemingly, by Jess as well!) is the failure to
>recognise the musical and moral superiority of bel canto.

Howard, you curmugeon you, did I say Strauss was my All?
Good heavens, there's Mozart, the greatest of all.  If by
bel canto you mean the drear of Bellini and Rossini, I shall
be content to let you think ill of me, alas.  I would not
exactly despise Verdi either.  And I think everyone who
doesn't know opera should start with Butterfly (and a lot of
patience).

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: johnf@uhheph.phys.hawaii.edu (John Flanagan)
Subject: Re: Heterosexuals (was Re: Faggots)
Organization: University of Hawaii, Dept. of Physics & Astronomy
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 10:06:13 GMT

In article <1992Sep28.121753.5238@panix.com> mara@panix.com (Mara
Chibnik) writes:

[On straight women keeping their men nice and homely:]

>What I'd _like_ to say to this is that it's the other way around--
>straight women want to discourage "other men" from pawing or
>otherwise having too much fun with their (i.e. the straight women's)
>guys.  But if I were to say such a thing in such a large group of 
>people many of whom don't know me well it would probably just lead
>to lots of misunderstandings, especially since I don't use smileys.
>
>So I won't say it.
>Such a pity.  It would be fun to see where it would lead.

Pity indeed.  I'd have been tempted to observe that they were giving
up their chance to have their cake and eat it, presumably on the
theory that a bird in the -- but you know how ugly these things can
get in a hurry.

--John
-- 
John Flanagan                          ||"Pretty boys
johnf@uhheph.phys.hawaii.edu           || with the sunshine faces
U. of Hawaii, Dept. of Physics & Astro.|| <mumble mumble>..."
2505 Correa Rd., Honolulu, HI 96822    ||            -- My Bloody Valentine
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: Bucky.Whaley@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Bucky Whaley)
Subject: Re: Information request about DC.
Organization: The Lutefisk Watch 
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 18:32:34 GMT

In article <1992Oct3.150707.29554@wixer.cactus.org> will@wixer.cactus.org (Bill Staniewicz) writes:
>In the Oct '92 issue of "The Guide", a free peridical
>having info about clubs and gay travel, they
>featured some of the clubs in the Washington DC area.
>One club that caught my eye was "The Chesapeake House",
>where apparently the dancers "take it _all_ off".
>Assuming I get a chance to visit DC, I would like to
>stop by there for a visit. Can anyone tell me about the
>club and what to expect? Also, has anyone see Duane there?
>(He is one of the performers.)

According to an article in a recent copy of The Washington Blade, "The 
Chesapeake House" has closed.  I think the building was scheduled to be
demolished immediately.  


--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
From: bcapps@atlastele.com (Brent Capps)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: demuffining
Date: 30 Sep 92 15:44:42 GMT
Organization: Atlas Telecom Inc.

In article <lch493INNnkg@spim.mti.sgi.com> dauber@tattoo.mti.sgi.com (Jeff Dauber) writes:
>Hi!  My name is Jeff and this is my first posting to soc.motss
>so don't flame me!!!  
>
>I am angry to see so many flames.  Why can't you people be nice to
>each other!!! All these icky names being used!!!! How dare you!!!!!
>All these nice people being insulted by these mean "cabal" people!!!!
>How dare you!!! You should be ashamed!!!!!!
>
>Shouldn't we all speak out against these bear codes?  I mean, don't
>they re-inforce all these stereotypes.  I mean, how can we ever expect
>the normal world to accept us if we behave this way!!!!!

I, too, have noticed great variation among PC keyboards.  I decided to
splurge and purchase a "period" key (.) when I bought mine.  It was an
expensive option, but well worth the investment, and I have spent many
pleasurable hours just banging away on it...(ooh that felt good).

-- 
Brent Capps            | I am not responsible
bcapps@atlastele.com   | for the views
bcapps@agora.rain.com  | of my employer.
From: markm@ogicse.cse.ogi.edu (Mark Morrissey)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Oregon Right To Privacy Fundraiser
Date: 4 Oct 92 17:42:06 GMT
Organization: Oregon Graduate Institute (formerly OGC), Beaverton, OR


I was at the Right To Privacy fundraising dinner last night where Urvashi
Vaid spoke passionately and eloquently about the battle in Oregon.

From her keynote speech:

"We who are gay, lesbian, or bisexual in this room tonight know that we
live in a world bereft of justice and peace for lesbians and gay men.
We are the last class of persons left without full citizenship rights
in American today."

"Our march for justice and fairness is winning the hearts and minds of
the American people.  And it is this fact that alarms the OCA and other
right-wing extremists most."

The dinner raised nearly $70,000 for the No on 9 campaign.  There was
also a preview of new television commercials slated for saturation
play in the next month.  The messages is simple "Measure 9 is more
than wrong, it is dangerous".

An emotionally charged evening with pointed political commentary and
humor from Romanovski and Phillips, who joined Urvashi and many political
leaders after the dinner to greet the supporters and offer their best
wishes for the defeat of Measure 9.

I was especially moved by the speech of Bob Hattoy, who came representing
Gov. Bill Clinton.

As one speaker put it "I really need this coming together and sharing
as a community at this point in the campaign."

More than 70 politicians seeking office in Oregon came to the dinner.
The applause at the introduction of the guests and politicians of
significance was thunderous.  More than one guest was nearly moved to
tears.  We have a good bunch here in Oregon, let's hope that the hate
mongers don't get the opportunity to change that.

I'm off to the big No on 9 rally, now.  To here Urvashi speak again
and maybe hear our Govenor, Barbara Roberts (who was splendid at the
dinner and gathered compliments and best wishes from Urvashi, Bob
Hattoy and all the speakers), speak as well.  It should be a very
powerful day, leading to a powerful week which will culminate in
Portland's Coming Out Day this friday (10/9) at Pioneer Courthouse
Square.

We are in the last 30 days, and I feel good.

--mark
--
Mark Morrissey           One Hatred to rule them all.  One Hatred to find them.
markm@cse.ogi.edu        One Hatred to bring them all and in the darkness bind
                         them.  In the land of Bigotry where the Shadows lie.
From: Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: CABAL stuff
Date: Mon,  5 Oct 92 22:32:13 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1992Oct4.231304.4005@spdcc.com> <1992Oct5.164418.7354@panix.com>

r l reid writes:
>wouldn't your average bear
>prefer to find a nice cache of berries and honey to having to
>go down to the stream and go to all the trouble of catching fish?

*I* certainly would!  Raspberries, strawberries, blueberries...

YUM!
 
() Happiness isn't something you experience; it's something
() you remember.
()      -- Oscar Levant
-----
[> George D. Madison | NBCS: B8f+t+w-e+s+k+a!cv | Just say NO to razors! <]
[> It's a BEAR thing -- you wouldn't understand. <|> furr@cup.portal.com <]
From: Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: CABAL stuff
Date: Thu,  1 Oct 92 00:51:04 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <66807@cup.portal.com> <1992Sep30.144536.13577@panix.com>

r l reid writes:
>>Absolutely not.  I vote for Italian.  A nice plate of pasta would 
>>be perfect.
>
>Whatever else the case may be, George and I could sure eat in the same
>place.

As long as you realize that *my* conception of "a nice plate of
pasta" consists of (1) pasta, (2) *LOADS* of garlic butter, and
(3) just a *bit* of grated Parmesan.

 
() How can I worry about your miserable violin when I am
() speaking to my God?
()      -- Beethoven
-----
[> George D. Madison | NBCS: B8f+t+w-e+s+k+a!cv | Just say NO to razors! <]
[> It's a BEAR thing -- you wouldn't understand. <|> furr@cup.portal.com <]
Xref: sparky soc.motss:42081 soc.bi:13498
From: wolfe@wolves.uucp (G. Wolfe Woodbury)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.bi
Subject: Re: gay science fiction (and a moment of shamelessness...)
Date: 7 Oct 92 03:26:27 GMT
Organization: Red Wolfe @ The Wolves Den
X-Md4-Signature: 53932dc8a704f8d831e2f080a743268b

dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
>rsr@soda.berkeley.edu (Roy S. Rapoport) writes:
>
>>Elf's journal was the first time I was actually aroused when reading about
>>two men making love.  Rather cool.
>
>Really?  It made me swear off screwing anyone with a tail, furry ears
>and a first name with an apostrophe in it.

How very like you S'teve.

				W'olfe
-- 
G. Wolfe Woodbury @ The Wolves Den UNIX, Durham NC         [use the maps!]
UUCP: ...duke!wolves!wolfe                            <Standard disclaimers>
Domain: wolfe@wolves.durham.nc.us   wolfe%wolves@cs.duke.edu
    Above all, we celebrate.   Celebrate the Circle Statement of Purpose
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: fjvwing@cs.vu.nl (FJ!!)
Subject: Re: Jess has designs on *my* little boy!
Organization: Fac. Wiskunde & Informatica, VU, Amsterdam
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 13:10:35 GMT

jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton) writes:
>Yeah, fj!, we were just talking about that yesterday at an unofficial cabal
>meeting.  Your adoring fans await you!

Ok, OK, _OK_, ya hear me?

I'll go through the archives and call a friend. There might be
something that can be used as a stop-gap until I get something 'very
me.'

							FJ!!
Newsgroups: soc.misc
Subject: Builders of the Adytum
From: hippee@oread.cc.ukans.edu
Date: 26 Sep 92 21:11:51 CDT
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Serces

This is a question for those who have had some experience with
a religion known as "BUILDERS OF THE ADYTUM" or BOTA.

What specifically is BOTA and how is it organized?  I am a religious
studies major at the U. of Kansas and have recently heard of the group.
I am begining work on a paper on this group and have little reference
material to work with.

I would prefer it if someone could answer the basic questions for me.

What is BOTA?
What does it believe (specific as possible, please)?
What are the rituals like?
How is it organized?
blah, blah, blah...

Any help in this area would be appreciated.  Please respond to:
HIPPEE@oread.cc.ukans.edu in this newsgroup.

Thanks.
From: Jane.Hogan@cc.utas.edu.au (Jane Hogan)
Subject: Re: women's club/hotel
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Organization: Computing Centre
Date: 5 Oct 92 22:21:13 GMT

> The atmosphere you describe sounds very appealing and useful
> to those traveling on business, but I find the idea of arbitrarily
> excluding all members of a particular class fairly unsettling
> and not particularly useful.

Yes - a bit of a curly one in this day of (theoretically anyway)
anti-discrimination

I don't intend to limit membership to either gender but the services
offered by the club and the marketing will be aimed very specifically
at women. I don't wish to set up a separatist establishment - members
will have friends/family of both sexes and they should completely free
to bring them to the club for lunch/drinks whatever but there will
also be areas of the club that are for private members only.

As far as I can see (certainly here in Tasmania anyway and I don't
think the rest of Australia is any different) there are numerous
venues available for mixed socialising and plenty of both public and
private clubs and hotels where men are by far the predominent
users/members, but none for women specifically - I want a club for me
to use and feel completely comfortable, whether I am with friends or
not. Nobody else is providing it for me - so it looks like I will have
to set it up for myself.

> Any woman leaving such an establishment would stand out very
> obviously as a woman traveling alone.

Not so Hortense - she might be part of a group booking!  Besides is
that going to be any more dangerous than walking anywhere on her own -
I don't feel safe even walking home from the bustop anymore!

One more question - what is the Guide to Periodical Literature -
publishers or whatever I will see if I can get a copy via a library.

Cheers

Jane
>


--
Post articles to soc.feminism, or send email to feminism@ncar.ucar.edu.
Questions and comments should be sent to feminism-request@ncar.ucar.edu.  This
news group is moderated by several people, so please use the mail aliases. Your
article should be posted within several days.  Rejections notified by email.
From: <anonymous>
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Subject: denial
Date: 29 Sep 1992 21:05:18 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: remarque.berkeley.edu
Originator: muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu

Posted anonymously:

> From muffy@mica.berkeley.EDU (Muffy Barkocy):
> . . .
> Recently I posted (in response to a request for such things) a list of
> sexist (not violent, just sexist) incidents that I or my friends had
> experienced.  I received two long responses, one posted and one email,
> which went to great lengths to deny that there was any sexism in the
> incidents.  . . .

I recently had an experience that underscored the level of
denial commonly found in our culture.

In a company-wide meeting, the vice president of our division
made a remark that was sexist and bordering on sexual harassment.
When some people hissed, he expressed surprise at the
negative reaction.

Although most people agreed that the remark was sexist and
inappropriate, many voiced the opinion that the remark was
so out of character that they had to discount it.

Rather than seeing this remark as the tip of the iceberg
that some people have reported seeing, they chose to see
it as a mirage of some kind.

Is there any hope?
 




-- 
Post articles to soc.feminism, or send email to feminism@ncar.ucar.edu.
Questions and comments should be sent to feminism-request@ncar.ucar.edu.  This
newsgroup is moderated by several people, so please use the mail aliases. Your
article should be posted within several days.  Rejections notified by email.
From: dbailey@cix.compulink.co.uk (Diane Bailey)
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Subject: Chicago's The Dinner Party
Date: 30 Sep 92 17:17:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: cix.memo.653460
Reply-To: dbailey@cix.compulink.co.uk

Ha!

>In article <19vnthINN7tc@agate.berkeley.edu> rdh@veritas.com (Robert Hartman)
>writes:

>>Some years ago, in the late 70's or early 80's a woman who's name
>>I'm having trouble recalling (Nancy Holliday?) put out a book called
>>"The Dinner Party."  It was a collection of at least a dozen
>>renditions of vaginas made on paper plates at a party they had.  It
>>garnered a lot of giggles and groans, but also a lot of respect.
>>That was one method women that those women used to take control over
>>the portrayal of their bodies.
>
><bickis@math.usask.ca> Mik Bickis replies:
>I think you're thinking of Judy Chicago (close though :-)), and it
>was an art exhibition.  The plates were laid out on along a huge
>table, as if for a genuine party.  Perhaps a book was published about
>this show.

This was a major international work of art, which toured
internationally and attracted record attendances at some top
venues.  I saw it in London where, of course, no established
gallery would give it room and women had to create a gallery
specially for it.  To see this impressive and beautiful work, and
hear the remarks and conversations it provoked (nothing ribald or
childish that I recall), and know that the stultified and
establishment galleries of this big city considered it below them
was in itself a greatly politicising experience.

Far from being a few paper plates the work consisted of a huge
triangular dining table spead with finely worked cloths and with
table ware of glazed china, each item individually designed.  The
patterns were based on labia.  Each place setting was dedicated to
a particular woman from history and the carefully researched
explanatory panels on the walls told the stories of those women
and their significance in the history of womankind.

Along with the Dinner Party itself travelled a growing quilt,
each panel of which was individually worked to mark or
commemorate a woman, a group, an event or a movement.  Everywhere
that the exhitition travelled local women added more pieces to
the quilt (ever wondered where the idea for the AIDS quilt
originated?).

The book of the exhibit was a great reference work to the women
commemorated in the Dinner Party.

It is profoundly distressing that only 10 to 15 years after the
work was created someone can post to this conference that it
consisted of a few paper plates...

I wonder where it is now.  If there was any justice it would
still be on display, either a permanent exhibition or touring to
yet further parts of the world.

--
Post articles to soc.feminism, or send email to feminism@ncar.ucar.edu.
Questions and comments should be sent to feminism-request@ncar.ucar.edu.  This
news group is moderated by several people, so please use the mail aliases. Your
article should be posted within several days.  Rejections notified by email.
From: pw@panix.com (Paul Wallich)
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Subject: Turnabout
Date: 6 Oct 1992 13:49:04 GMT
Organization: Trivializers R Us
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: remarque.berkeley.edu
Originator: muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu

A slightly bizarre anecdote and a philosophical question:

The other night I was accosted in my favorite dive. That is
to say, I got in a conversation with a woman who had apparently
had too much to drink, and she started getting physically
closer to me than I wanted and suggesting I go home with her. While
this was happening, I couldn't help thinking that this was something
that various women friends have complained about men doing, and
here it was happening to me. Time for walking in the other gender's
shoes briefly, and finding them not at all comfortable.

But really, was this anything comparable to what a woman might
experience when a persistent guy tries to feel her up or twist
her arm into having sex? I don't know. On the one hand, I felt
basically safe -- the bartender and a bunch of people there know
me -- but on the other hand the woman in question is a friend of
one of the staff, so there wasn't room for any kind of impolite
brushoff (and I was damned if I was going to be forced to leave,
not to mention just a tad nervous about being followed). On yet
another hand, there's the social stereotype that men aren't supposed
to feel threatened by a woman's advances. So I was pretty much
trapped there (at least until I finished my beer). Nothing to do
but sit there and try to keep as much of my composure as possible.

So the philosophical question is whether men and women don't
understand each other because they interpret the same situations
differently, or because they just don't really get in the same
situations? I know that this eventually shades into hairsplitting,
but in the meantime, to what extent is it possible to walk in the
other gender's shoes?

paul



-- 
Post articles to soc.feminism, or send email to feminism@ncar.ucar.edu.
Questions and comments should be sent to feminism-request@ncar.ucar.edu.  This
newsgroup is moderated by several people, so please use the mail aliases. Your
article should be posted within several days.  Rejections notified by email.
From: ys3359@csc.albany.EDU (Yazmasterj)
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Subject: Re: Military Quote
Date: 5 Oct 92 22:23:59 GMT
Article-I.D.: sarah.1992Oct1.001409.23337
Organization: State University of New York at Albany

In article <1a7elaINNhhb@agate.berkeley.edu> Steve Russell <sfjr@wam.umd.edu> writes:
>   All in all I agree with what you said, however I still dont like the
                                                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>idea of my sister or girlfriend being drafted.  Basically, as much as I
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>care for my own skin (enough to make plans to flee the country during-
>the gulf war) if push came to shove I would rather face the horrors of war
>then subject them to it.

I hardly believe that any woman is comfortable with the idea of her
father, husband, brother or son getting drafted.  That is not the
point.  Loss or taking of life is a tragedy regardless of gender.  If
the horrors of war must be faced, both men and women are capable of
facing them.

Yasmin

**************************************************************************
*                                   *                                    *
*  Yasmin Sohrawardy                *  "Only Nixon can go to China"      *
*                                   *                                    *
*  Internet:  ys3359@csc.albany.edu *            - Ancient Vulcan        *
*                                   *              Proverb               *
**************************************************************************

--
Post articles to soc.feminism, or send email to feminism@ncar.ucar.edu.
Questions and comments should be sent to feminism-request@ncar.ucar.edu.  This
news group is moderated by several people, so please use the mail aliases. Your
article should be posted within several days.  Rejections notified by email.
From: mitchell@cs.uchicago.EDU (Mitchell Marks)
Subject: Re: control over display of the feminine form
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Reply-To: mitchell@cs.uchicago.EDU
Organization: University of Chicago Computer Science
Date: 27 Sep 92 20:52:13 GMT
	<19vnthINN7tc@agate.berkeley.edu>

>>>>> "RH" == Robert Hartman <rdh@veritas.com> writes:

  RH> Some years ago, in the late 70's or early 80's a woman who's
  RH> name I'm having trouble recalling (Nancy Holliday?) put out a
  RH> book called "The Dinner Party."

The organizer and principal artist goes by the name Judy Chicago.
It's good that there's a book documenting it, but the primary work
itself was what we might now call "an installation".

  RH> It was a collection of at least a dozen renditions of vaginas
  RH> made on paper plates at a party they had.

I don't know if perhaps the original inspiration came from a
particular dinner party, but the work took a long time from many
people, and was not the slapdash leftovers of an impromptu idea.  Also
I don't think any of the place settings had a paper plate; perhaps so,
but not most of them.

Each place setting was named for a particular woman, generally of some
well-known historical or contemporary significance.

  RH> It garnered a lot of giggles and groans, but also a lot of
  RH> respect.  That was one method women that those women used to
  RH> take control over the portrayal of their bodies.

Indeed.
--
Mitch Marks    mitchell@cs.uchicago.edu
"The catch is, the {\it cetera} are seldom {\it paria}."
  -- Ronald de Sousa

--
Post articles to soc.feminism, or send email to feminism@ncar.ucar.edu.
Questions and comments should be sent to feminism-request@ncar.ucar.edu.  This
news group is moderated by several people, so please use the mail aliases. Your
article should be posted within several days.  Rejections notified by email.