HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad)
Subject: Re: L'Incoronazione de Poppea
Organization: University of Delaware
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 03:01:47 GMT

Harnoncourt is quite good, but be careful that you're dealing with his
FIRST recording.  He made two, and the second (it went with a Ponnelle
tv production) is a butchered edition and a far inferior performance.
The one that has Helen Donath and Elisabeth Soederstroem is the good
one.

I can't comment on its quality relative to the Jacobs, not having heard
the latter.

Jon Alan Conrad
From: diarmuid@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Diarmuid Pigott)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Vaughan Williams (was Re: Sibelius 2nd)
Date: 12 Sep 1992 18:32:49 +0800
Organization: The University of Westrn Australia
NNTP-Posting-Host: uniwa.uwa.edu.au
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

Deryk Barker (dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA) wrote:
: 
: The Sea Symphony is his first, the London Symphony is the second. I
: can't say I hear any echoes of Elgar in the SS, rather echoes of the
: British oratorio tradition (Stanford, Parry etc). 

What about "Gerontius"?
From: dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Solti and Karajan (was: Re: Mahler's 5th Symphony by Solti ...)
Date: 8 Sep 92 23:47:55 GMT
Organization: Camosun College, Victoria BC, Canada

In article <1992Sep8.175548.6739@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> smith@honesty.Stanford.EDU.Stanford.EDU (Jeremy Smith) writes:
[....]
>Perhaps you haven't had many opportunities to hear Karajan live.  But
>that really doesn't matter since Karajan isn't known for having a
>special gift in live performance.  What does matter is that his best
>performances are on CD and he DOMINATES the cataloge in romantic music.
>If you are interested in Bruckner, Tchaikovsky, Strauss (any of them),
>Sibelius, and (to a lesser degree) Mahler and Brahms, he cannot be
>overlooked.  In addition, he has numerous gems from Mozart to Webern.
>Solti may be good for Wagner, but he is not at the same level for the
>above mentioned composers(Solti's Mahler #1 is quite good, though). 
>No doubt, Karajan has injected a few dogs into the CD catalogue 
>(Shostakovich #10 for example), but Solti cannot compete with his 
>best, period.

Can't be overlooked, true, but in most cases you'll find better
performances/recordings elsewhere: his Bruckner doesn't have the
spirituality of Jochum - or Barenboim's new 9th (with the BPO) on
Teldec; his Tchaikovsky is not as good as Janssons and completely
blown away by Mravinsky; I suspect he is out-Straussed (R) by Kempe;
and I am not half so impressed by his Sibelius as others seem to be.
His mahler consists of a good 6th, a fair 5th a good 9th (the analogue
one) and a much over-hyped 9th (the digital one). Judging by the
sound, he was starting to go deaf in later years - how else can we
explain the sonic abominations of his Planets of Nielsen 4th?

Strangely, most other commentators seem to think his Shostakovich 10th
is excellent.

Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept., Camosun College, Victoria B.C.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: pajerek@telstar.kodak.com (Don Pajerek)
Subject: re: Le Sacre, Stravinski
Reply-To: pajerek@kadsma.kodak.com (Don Pajerek)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corp. - Telstar
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 16:03:58 GMT

In article <BuCxsJ.8Ix@cs.vu.nl> lrozend@cs.vu.nl (Rozendaal L) writes:
>I'd like to know which performance of 'Le sacre du printemps' is considered
>the best. Any opinions?
>
>--
>Rhesa Rozendaal
>
>--
>lrozend@cs.vu.nl
>Faculteit Wiskunde & Informatica, Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam.
>--
>

As with many such masterpieces, there is no unanimity on such a question.
If I were to venture a response, I would suggest that the early Bernstein
recording, with the NY Phil, is probably considered the 'ultimate' _Sacre_
on record. Unfortunately, it's not available in any format right now. Maybe
Sony will re-release it as part of their Bernstein reissue series (I was
overjoyed to see the 1950's Bernstein Missa Solemnis recently on CD).

Solti also did a _Sacre_ during the 1960's that is very well regarded. Again,
this one is not available on CD. His remake (like Bernstein's) is not thought
to be nearly as exciting.

Of available recordings, I like the Tilson Thomas/BSO on DG, or the Dutoit/
Montreal on London.


Don Pajerek

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: cerovse@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Corey Cerovsek)
Subject: Has anyone collected viola jokes?
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 03:53:57 GMT

Another violinist and I are competing for the most impressive
collection of viola jokes... has anyone compiled a list yet?  If not,
can anyone with some good ones to share e-mail them to me?

Thanks!!

Corey Cerovsek
cerovse@indiana.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: brreeves@bnr.ca (Brad Reeves)
Subject: Wedding march music
Reply-To: brreeves@bnr.ca (Brad Reeves)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 13:23:50 GMT


   My sister is getting married next month and I've been
 put in charge of selecting the music to be played as she
 marches down the aisle.  She wants something other than the     standard wedding march.  Any suggestions? 

 If this question has already been asked, could someone please
 send me a summary of the answers (I see there were a couple 
 of recent posts about wedding music, but I didn't catch the
 beginning of that thread).

 Thanks in advance for any help.

- Brad

------------
 Brad Reeves
 brreeves@bnr.ca
From: alves@calvin.usc.edu (William Alves)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: obscure but good
Date: 15 Sep 92 23:37:23 GMT
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: calvin.usc.edu

There are many pieces I would consider under this label, but I would like
to give a special plug for Silvestre Revueltas, the twentieth-century
Mexican composer. I don't know if you consider him obscure; he is certainly
venerated in Mexico. I like to consider him the Charles Ives of Mexico.
While such a comparison may be unfair and obscure Revueltas' unique quali-
ties, it can give you a rough idea of this iconoclast. Like Ives, Revueltas
loves bright, dissonant, polytonal and polyrhythmic clashes of sounds,
especially those from Mexican folk music (like Ives's use of popular tunes).
His "Homenaje a Frederico Garcia Lorca" contains, in addition to beautifully
introspective moments, wildly funny pieces reminiscent of mariachis com-
peting on different street corners. His most famous work "Sensemaya" is
his hair-raising evocation of Afro-Cuban cults in a "primitivist" vein
a la "Rite of Spring." Though it's not nearly as regular, I like to look
at its grand crescendo as a kind of polytonal Bolero in 7/8. Bernstein's
recording of this piece on the Columbia album "Latin American Fiesta" is
great. Revueltas was a professional violinist and conductor who didn't start
composing until he was about 30 and died just 10 years later. Most of the
best of his relatively small body of compositions has been collected on a
CD called "Hommage a Silvestre Revueltas" by the Orchestre Philharmonique
de Mexico conducted by Fernando Lozano (Forlane UCD 16614). I just picked
up this CD, but it's apparently been out since 1990 since it commemorates
the 50th anniversary of his death (1940).

To the others who respond to this thread: I would recommend a few words as
to why you like these obscure works or some kind of description or compa-
rison so that others may have an idea if they would be interested in the
same works.

Bill Alves
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: txa86@isuvax.iastate.edu
Subject: Live from Orchestra Hall, Chicago
Reply-To: txa86@isuvax.iastate.edu
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 03:47:53 GMT

For you guys live in Chicago area, there are some concerts in Orchestra Hall    which is worth to listenning:

Monday, October 13, 8:00pm
Anne Sophie Mutter Violin Recital
Programs to be announced

Sunday, October 18, 3:00pm & October 25, 3:00pm
Tatiana Nikolaeva Piano Recital (from C.I.S.)
Program: Shostakovich  The Complete Fugue and Prelude (Composed for Nikolaeva)                         Part I (Oct.18)
                       Part II (Oct.25)

Monday, October 26, 8:00pm
Frankfurt Radio Symphony Orchestra
Violinist: Cho-Liang Lin
Program: The work of Webbern, Brahms and Prokofiev

Sunday, November 29, 7:30pm
Chung Trio (Korea)
Kyung-Hwa Chung, Violin
Myung-Hwa Chung, Cello
Myung-Hwun Chung, Piano
Program: Two works from Beethoven and Dvorak's "Dumky"

Wednesday, December 2, 8:00pm
Yo-Yo Ma Cello Recital
Program to be announced
Xref: sparky rec.music.classical:12412 rec.music.folk:6084
From: ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical,rec.music.folk
Subject: Re: William Jackson: St. Mungo
Date: 7 Sep 92 16:18:36 GMT
Organization: Indiana University

In article <1992Sep3.131421.19736@gdr.bath.ac.uk> ccsdgdc@gdr.bath.ac.uk (Douglas Clark) writes:
>
>I purchased a remarkably good CD on Tuesday. A composition from 1990
>by William Jackson of the Scottish folk group Ossian. It is his
>St. Mungo  A Celtic Suite for Glasgow 


Yup! I have that one too. 

Also try his Wellpark Suite, and Ossian's "Light on a Distant Shore".




-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala
Internet: NTAIB@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU |    Frog is Frog ala Peach
Bitnet:   NTAIB@IUBACS                 !
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: chrisi@lloyd.Camex.COM (Chris Ischay)
Subject: Re: La Traviata
Keywords: Ponselle
Organization: Camex Inc., Boston MA
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1992 22:49:18 EDT

In article <1992Sep4.205302.8634@umbc3.umbc.edu> maher@umbc4.umbc.edu (Dr.
Michael Maher; ACS (GUEST)) writes:

>In the discussion of ideal cast for Traviata, I  don't 
>recall a discussion of the Ponselle, Tibbett, Jagel?
>Traviata from about 1936.

1935 I think.  I don't know if I'd call them an ideal cast, but it is a
very exciting document.  Most interesting to me is Ponselle's creation of
Violetta.  She is quite short on the side of fragility and vulnerability,
and quite long on a kind of frantic merriment.  I found it convincing,
though it's not the way I think of Violetta.

>The sound is somewhat strained and distant at times,
>but I thought it a wonderful performance.  Ponselle
>was generally nervous in performances, and at the 
>outset is perhaps a little sharp.  But her sempre
>libre is brilliant coloratura.  

The nice part was that she seems to give little emphasis to the potential
for musical showmanship, instead using the music to underline her
character's headlong, somewhat forced commitment to the gay life.

>The highlight I 
>suppose, is Ditte al giovani with Tibbett, whose 
>breath line is legendary.  

Even more satisfying is his "Di Provenza," one of the few occasions when
this melody doesn't come off a little dweeby.  It reminds me most of
Battistini's.  Come to think of it, we seem to talk a lot about sopranos
and tenors around here.  Isn' it time for a baritone appreciation session?

>  The Ensemble in Act 3
>is beautifully sung, though some might dislike her
>shreiks when Alfredo insults her.  

Not me.  I thought they were wild.  I suppose we could get into the
"composer's intentions."  But they worked fine for her vision of the
character.

>The death scene is very touching.

Well, it better be or we're in big trouble.  The moment I found most
arresting in the last act was her "E tardi" after reading the letter.  She
spits it out with enormous venom.  No self-pitying fading flower here.  

>All in all, just the weight of voice and dramatic
>ability I should think people would like in the role.

I liked it.  I also liked Ettore Panizza's conducting.  I'll leave the
weight thing to Ken, though.

Chris Ischay
chrisi@camex.com
From: schissel@mace.Princeton.EDU (Eric Schissel)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Du Pre recital
Date: 13 Sep 92 18:26:48 GMT
Organization: Princeton University

Good recordings of the Mahler 6th:
an Abbado & Chicago Symphony recording on 2 DG tapes that's
several years old (not their newer recording, although that could be
good).

I'm a Bernstein fan, but I agree with you about the Tennstedt
recording: where's the tension in the last movement, the awe-
inspiring pull from the sillyish Bflat major oboe theme to the tense
recapitulation of the fast music (in the finale) in faraway a minor?
My favorite performances have me almost literally at the edge of
my seat in that passage and a few others, making me understand descriptions
of the 6th as Mahler's most classical- for it is well-proportioned,
goal-directed and coherent like little else in early 20th-century music
(and I'm a Schoenberg and Brian fan).  Tennstedt doesn't seem to
quite push this; a bit too mellow.

I just got Haitink's recording of the 8th, on Philips, as a present
from a good friend (it also has the opening movt. of the 10th);
quite good, although not perfect sound.

Reasons I recommend the Abbado on DG for the 6th:
excellent sound and dynamic range- i have it on 2 tapes and for tapes
this is not believable.  The performance pays attention to Mahler's
gradations (remember Mahler's own line about getting performers
to play what was in the notes, and exactly that?- quoted by Schoenberg
in the Mahler memorial reprinted in Style and Idea) and instructions.
A tense finale- one can feel the coherence, the passion if I might say.
An expansive and absolutely wonderful slow movement (in third place-
I prefer it that way, but the matter's come up for discussion on this
group). (Unfortunately: only two hammer blows in the finale, I think.)

schissel@math.cornell.edu
(miraculously has not yet lost the Princeton account, but won't count on
that
situation persisting)
From: conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Le Sacre, Stravinski
Date: 11 Sep 92 17:54:10 GMT
Organization: University of Delaware

In article <1992Sep11.150357.10054@visual.com> rwh@visual.com (Rob Holzel) writes:

>I'm a big Dutoit fan, but I heard some time ago (maybe I read
>it here) that his recordings with the Montreal Symphony are
>basically patchwork affairs, more a tribute to the engineers
>than to the orchestra.  

And we KNOW that everything we hear here is gospel truth, right?
:-)

It's amazing how many rumors of this kind exist.  Not too long ago, it
was said here about the Seattle Symphony.  Applying it to Montreal is
new in my experience, but I don't doubt you did hear it somewhere.  One
can also hear such things said of many other groups.  The stories
usually start because someone either (a) dislikes a particular group, or
(b) went to one recording session and was shocked, I tell you shocked,
to discover that they <gasp> do *retakes* and *patches*!  Imagine!!
Basic lesson number 1 in such situations is, as always, don't believe
everything you hear.

Seriously any orchestra that required incessant patchwork editing to
sound acceptable would quickly find itself without a recording contract.
It just wouldn't be worth the trouble and expense; why bother, when
other orchestras can manage without?

And while we're at it, there's one Dutoit/Montreal recording that I wish
they'd patched a bit more: a wrong piccolo entry in the middle of
Jupiter leads to several measures of chaos and mars what is otherwise a
splendiferous "Planets."

Jon Alan Conrad
From: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Wedding Music
Date: 9 Sep 92 16:46:55 GMT
Reply-To: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Organization: COMANDOS Project, Glesga Yoonie

al@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Haus Der Luge) wrote:
> IDEAL WEDDING ACCOMPIANENT:
> Varese - Ionisation
> Anton Webern - 5 Satze Op.5
> Witold Lutoslawski - String Quartet (1964)
> John Cage - 4'33"
> Of course, this is assuming that:
> (a) there happens to be a handy orchestra pit in the church
> (b) you happen to have a handy string orchestra and some 30 odd 
>     percussionists in that pit
> (c) you are slightly demented

But if you had all those forces, couldn't you just throw in a few wind
players and a soprano in a wedding dress and do Peter Maxwell Davies's
"Miss Donnithorne's Maggot"?  Much more appropriate...

-- 
--  Jack Campin    room G092, Computing Science Department, Glasgow University,
17 Lilybank Gardens, Glasgow G12 8RZ, Scotland   TEL: 041 339 8855 x6854 (work)
INTERNET: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk or via nsfnet-relay.ac.uk    FAX: 041 330 4913
BANG!net: via mcsun and uknet     BITNET: via UKACRL    UUCP: jack@glasgow.uucp
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster)
Subject: Publicizing concerts
In-reply-to: mgresham@dscatl.UUCP's message of 11 Sep 92 23:44:39 GMT
Organization: pubs
	<1992Sep9.122159.8776@vax.oxford.ac.uk>
	<1992Sep10.141210.23350@Princeton.EDU> <46984@dscatl.UUCP>
Date: 14 Sep 92 16:01:50 CDT


Mark Gresham writes:

   So yes, I agree with Roger on the caution about touring choirs,
   from both sides of the issue.  And the sad thing is that it makes
   people shy away from legitimate touring groups whose names are not
   household words, including good university ensembles.

On a related topic...

My niece is in the Glen Ellyn Children's Chorus, which is one of the
best children's ensembles in the country and is the Chicago SO's
standard group when kids are called for.  They visited Minneapolis last
month, and I attended a first-rate concert at which the audience was
possibly smaller than the choir.  Here's a touring group that *is* worth
hearing, and apparently no one knew about it--somebody in the PR
department is failing.  On the other hand, my friend Jim Lebens, a
Canadian trombonist, is able to fill halls of 1200 seats, apparently
because he has a smart agent.
From: jseboldt@pnet51.orb.mn.org (John Seboldt)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Counterfactual contrafacta (Re: nyah, nyah)
Date: 14 Sep 92 01:25:02 GMT
Organization: People-Net [pnet51], Minneapolis, MN.

elkies@ramanujan.harvard.edu (Noam Elkies) writes:
>In article <Sep.12.17.52.32.1992.17479@aramis.rutgers.edu>
>loewenst@aramis.rutgers.edu (David Loewenstern) [actually
>"Deborah Greenberg (his lovely wife) on David Loewenstern's
>account"] writes:
>
>>The altos sing "nyah, nyah,nyah, nyah, nyah".  Funny, having sung 
>>"Fair Phyllis" for 2 years, I never noticed it before.  I don't 
>>think I'll ever be able to sing it again with a straight face (as 
>>if all the running up and down weren't enough...). 
>
>Hm.  For several years the Harvard Commencement Choir music included
>a 5-part motet "Non vos relinquam orphanos" (by Byrd? it starts with
>a point of imitation on  |F   C C |F G A .A|G  etc.).  An inner voice
>sings one of the concluding Alleluias on part of the Fred Flinstone tune
>|xC AG _C |...  Then there's the Woody Woodpecker horncall (actually
>|F^CFA  F  |C  instead of CFA|C A, but close enough...) that announces
>the soloist's final tumbling run in Chopin's F-minor piano concerto.
>Any other such examples?
>
>--Noam D. Elkies (elkies@zariski.harvard.edu)
>  Dept. of Mathematics, Harvard University

One of the small "Magnificat" fugues by Johann Pachelbel has a fugue subject
which many will recognize as one note different from the incipit of a familiar
nursery tune:  
6/8 |f fg g|agaf  |        It then spins on a bit...  I can never resist
changing it!

In case our quasi-ASCII notation confuses you, it's "Pop Goes the Weasel!".

: John Seboldt...Minneapolis, MN...As a ham, K0JD...as a human,       :
: right-brained yet right-handed...as a musician, techie yet creative :
:   UUCP: {crash, tcnet, petrus, quest}!orbit!pnet51!jseboldt         :
:   ARPA: crash!orbit!pnet51!jseboldt@nosc.mil                        :
:   INET: jseboldt@pnet51.orb.mn.org                                  :
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: mikulska@astro.Princeton.EDU (Margaret Mikulska)
Subject: Re: Schoeck
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: mikulska@astro.princeton.edu (Margaret Mikulska)
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 05:29:17 GMT

In article <1992Sep1.184328.19459@fid.morgan.com> steve@fid.morgan.com (Steve Apter) writes:
>>>
>>>In article <1992Aug31.193845.21259@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> spg@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Stephen P. Guthrie) writes:
>>>>
>>>>Anyone heard of the composer Schoeck?
>
>[...]  There's at least one opera on CD,
>_Mass--- Don---_, fragments of whose title are all I have to offer. 

"Massimilla Doni" with Edith Mathis, on Schwann Musica Mundi.

-Margaret

Organization: Junior, Music, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 13:08:35 -0400 
From: "Alexander B. Mandl" <am46+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Violists

Does anyone know the difference between a Viola and an Onion?
A. Well, nobody cries when you cut up a Viola.

How about this.  What's the difference between a Viola Solo and pissing
in your pants????

A. You don't get that warm feeling during a Viola Solo!!!!!
From: mgresham@dscatl.UUCP (Mark Gresham)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Wedding Music
Date: 11 Sep 92 14:33:10 GMT
Article-I.D.: dscatl.46979
Reply-To: mgresham@dscatl.UUCP (Mark Gresham)
Organization: Digital Systems Co,  Atlanta, Ga

In article <BuBLA7.92p@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk> jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin) writes:
>But if you had all those forces, couldn't you just throw in a few wind
>players and a soprano in a wedding dress and do Peter Maxwell Davies's
>"Miss Donnithorne's Maggot"?  Much more appropriate...


Maggot?  Maggot?  Is the maggot BLUE?  If so that explains
where Atlanta's new 1996 Olympic mascot came from! :-)

(Well, it has lightning-bolt eyebrows, so maybe it's just a
computer bug. :-) )


Cheers,

--Mark Gresham

dscatl!mgresham@gatech.edu

==========================