HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rogerk@QueerNet.ORG (Roger B.A. Klorese)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: the purpose of soc.motss (was: off-topic discussions)
Date: 15 Nov 92 18:36:07 GMT
Organization: QueerNet

In article <1992Nov8.184257.16733@Princeton.EDU>, spencer@phoenix.Princeton.EDU
(S. Spencer Sun) writes:
|> I am not going to contest the reasons for which soc.motss/net.motss was
|> created; I've only been reading s.m for 6 months now.  But I would like
|> to suggest that perhaps the context under which it was created is a bit
|> outdated now.  i.e., some of the reasons for which it was created way
|> back when  are no longer valid.  Maybe not.  You tell me, I'm not in a
|> position to know.

Maybe you think the need to hang out with other queers and friendlies has gone
away; I do not.

If you wish focused political discussion, there are plenty of mailing lists and
other newsgroups for that.  I, for one, amd glad that motss is a place for
queers talking queerly... and that includes, recipes, sex, politics, show tunes,
opera, that hot little skinhead with the bad tattoos at the Coleherne last
month...
-- 
ROGER B.A. KLORESE                                              +1 415 ALL-ARFF
rogerk@unpc.QueerNet.ORG              {ames,decwrl,pyramid}!sgiblab!unpc!rogerk
"Normal is not something to aspire to, it's something to get away from."
                                                                   -- J. Foster
Xref: sparky soc.motss:48489 alt.politics.homosexuality:7423 talk.politics.misc:60949
From: mwilson@ncratl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM (Mark Wilson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Colorado Amendment 2: The First Fatality
Date: 19 Nov 92 20:45:32 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: NCR Engineering and Manufacturing Atlanta -- Atlanta, GA

In <1992Nov17.200818.882@advtech.uswest.com> ltp@uswest.com (Halfman-Halfmachine) writes:

|>And isn`t THAT a pisser! It seems to me that if the Christian fund-
|>amentalists, Mormans, or whoever, want to play the political game, and
|>have the ability to propose changes to the state constitution, then
|>they should also pay taxes like everyone else. Isn't the Catholic
|>church one of the biggest money making organizations in the world?
|>It would be a sizable chunk of money fed directly into federal and
|>state coffers if religous organizations like those behind CFV had to 
|>pay Uncle Sam, state and local taxes. It might take enough money out
|>of their seemingly overflowing propaganda, I mean, campaign fund to
|>at least make them think twice before they launch an attack on in-
|>dividual rights.

The same could be said of organizations like Greenpeace, and People for
the American Way.

Do you oppose tax free status for all groups, or only those whose message
you don't like?


-- 
Mob rule doesn't become any prettier, just because the mob start to call itself
a government.
It ain't charity if you are using someone else's money.
Mark.Wilson@AtlantaGA.NCR.com
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: cornell@inoc.dl.nec.com (C.J.K.)
Subject: Re: Bob Dole Quote
Reply-To: cornell@syl.dl.nec.com
Organization: Not very organized
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 18:16:22 GMT

anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:

>Dole always sounds more like 1840s to me.  When does he next
>stand for election?

Six years......(1998).....
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality,co.politics,co.general,talk.politics.misc,co.politics.amend2.discuss,boulder.general,csu.general
From: wallsj@CS.ColoState.EDU (jeffrey joel walls)
Subject: Re: Support the boycott (was Re: Don't boycott all of Colorado)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 02:04:57 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department

In article <1992Nov19.012210.18165@tc.cornell.edu> shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore) writes:
>
>That's a pretty narrow view.  Your state paved the way for
>other states to enact similar legislation.  Your state just
>voted my rights away.  It matters to me a great deal, and
>it does have an impact on my life.  I urge you to read a
>history of the civil rights movement.

 Melinda, I lived in Mississippi for 15+ years.  I was raised there.
 I know first hand (FIRST HAND) that blacks are *still* discriminated
 against.  Sure, the protests and boycotts of the 60's helped at the
 time, but tell that to black people that *still* endure hate crimes.
 Your boycott may (MAY) be effective in overturning the amendment (but
 I doubt it). However, I can assure you that just because the amendment is
 gone, people won't immediately start accepting gays/lesbians openly.  
 No, change simply does NOT happen that fast, and you are crazy to 
 think that it will.  
    Yes, there DOES have to be a first step, but I think you should
 brace yourself for the future...it will be a long one.  Taking YOUR
 example of the Civil Rights Movement, it has been almost 30 years...
 blacks in this country are *still* fighting for their civil rights.

>And for those (straight and gay alike) who are not
>participating in a boycott, I think it would be great if
>you all would write or stamp "GAY $$$" on your paper money
>(no, it's not illegal) and write it on your checks if you
>spend money in Colorado.

 No, that would imply that I am gay, and I am definitely straight!  I
 would consider writing, "Amendment 2 is Discrimination" on it or
 something.  

 A previous post mentioned that it seems like every person in favor of
 the boycott is outside the state of Colorado.  Wouldn't it be interesting
 if these people actually boycotted their OWN states until THEIR states
 obtained Amendments to THEIR state constitutions that would give 
 protected status to gays/lesbians.  I bet that such an amendment would
 fail in many of the states.  I don't agree with CO Amendment 2, but I
 would be suprised if it passed in ANY southern state (except possibly
 Florida) and it certainly wouldn't pass in Utah.  Does anybody have any
 thoughts on this?  

 What would we do if such an amendment to the US Constitution failed?  Would
 we all boycott the USA and all move to say, Japan?  I bet it wouldn't pass
 in Japan either!  

 Jeff (just some thoughts)

CO Amendment 2 - Discrimination Pure And Simple

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
|       Colorado State University       | 
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
| Jeff Walls - wallsj@CS.ColoState.Edu  |
| 2520 Baxter Place                     |
| Fort Collins, CO  80526               |
| (303) 226-2411                        |
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
From: dh@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Duncan Hothersall)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: De-muffin and request for help...
Keywords: international, awareness
Date: 17 Nov 92 14:43:46 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Edinburgh

Hello.

I'm a co-organiser of our Bisexual, Lesbian or Gay Society here, and
we're organising an awareness week next March. I'm hoping to put on some
sort of exhibition of gay life _internationally_ and I was wondering 
whether any motssers could help with contacts, or any relevant info.

Basically, if anyone knows details of any groups, societies, local or
national organisations which are exclusively or predominantly GLB, I'd
like to hear from them. Please note - just the names would not be 
terribly useful, I'd prefer a little info on their activities, etc., or
a contact e-mail/postal address where I could get some.

Please respond via e-mail either to the .sig below, or to 

dh@uk.ac.ed.dcs

Thanks very much...


-- 
Doogie@uk.ac.Edinburgh   [Duncan Hothersall @ Dept. of Computer Science]
                         [    University of Edinburgh, Scotland, UK.   ]
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality,co.politics,co.general,talk.politics.misc,co.politics.amend2.discuss,boulder.general,csu.general
From: adams@spss.com (Steve Adams)
Subject: Re: Don't boycott all of Colorado
Organization: SPSS Inc.
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 21:36:05 GMT

taylorje@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (TAYLOR JASON EDMOND) writes:

>   I read an article the other day in the Boulder Daily Camera that explained
>how the NATIONAL family values people are moving (or have moved) their base
>of operations to Colorado Springs, CO. What a coincidence that the sponsors
>of amendment 2 are based in C Springs as well!

Sounds like you are talking about Focus on the Family (Dr. James Dobson),
among others.  They are in that area.

 -Steve
--
  The opinions expressed above are those of the author and not SPSS, Inc.
                         -------------------
   adams@spss.com                                  Phone: (312) 329-3522
   Steve Adams        "Space-age cybernomad"       Fax:   (312) 329-3558
From: chuck@fourier.ssd.kodak.com (Charles S. Collins 726-9461)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Some sad news from Colorado
Date: 16 Nov 92 16:23:03 GMT
Organization: Eastman Kodak

In article <5220010@hpcc01.corp.hp.com> zampicem@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Mike Zampiceni) writes:
>Until I see otherwise, I'll continue to regard "organized religion" in 
>the same way as "organized crime."

Of course, you are free to believe what you like.  But I must protest
what I see has terribly shortsighted.

By classifying all of organized religion in the same league as organized crime,
you ignore the following groups within organized religions which are working
extremely hard for gay/lesbian/bisexual causes:

More Light Churches (Presbyterian)
Reconciling Congregations (Methodist)
Affirmation (Mormon)
Dignity (Roman Catholic)
Integrity (Episcopal)

and others.



-- 
Chuck Collins				Product Software Engineering
chuck@pixel.kodak.com			Eastman Kodak Company
(716)726-9461				901 Elmgrove Road
					Rochester, NY  14653-5811
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: reynolds@nextworld.com (Rick Reynolds)
Subject: Re: DIGITAL QUEERS?
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 11:02:25 -0800
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X-To: Ron Buckmire <buckmr@rpi.edu>
X-Cc: domestic@tattoo.mti.sgi.com, soc.motss.usenet

>Has anyone heard of DIGITAL QUEERS? If so, could yuo pass me along an
>email address to get on their mailing list or contact them?


Digital Queers is just forming and does not yet have an email address or a mailing list. If you  
need to contact them early for some reason, I think my address is as good as any for the short  
term.

Send me a note and I will pass it on.

Thanks,
Rick Reynolds
Publish Magazine
NeXTWORLD Magazine

(but this has nothing to do with either of those)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: kfj@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Kirk Johanning)
Subject: Re: Sucking on Keanu Reeves
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 20:03:12 GMT
Organization: HP Response Center Atlanta

In <mattm-131192093357@mcmelmon.apple.com> mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon) writes:

>In article <BxntyC.LAI@hpuerca.atl.hp.com>, kfj@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Kirk
>Johanning) wrote:

>> >(Did I tell you, Dear Squirrel, about the Muffin's story -
>> >wherein he was tied up by some bimbos in San Diego and
>> >forced to do unspeakable things?  I think I did...  Oh, just
>> >thinking about him all strapped down and naked, squirming
>> >around, legs spread apart....  ARGHGHGHGHGHGH!!!
>> 
>> >I want to go home *right* *now*!)
>> 
>> Do tell!!

>No, no.  It's too perilous...

>*X*

TEASE!!

You know, I thought that we could have used a good story here but I
guess you just do not want to share this obviously highly interesting
saga with the rest of us.
-- 
 ____   Kirk Johanning               ____    The opinions expressed above   ____
 \  /   HP Response Center Atlanta   \  /    are mine and may not reflect   \  /
  \/    kfj@hpuerca.atl.hp.com        \/     those my employer or anybody    \/
                                             else for that matter.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams)
Subject: Re: New Catholic Catechism
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, California
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 19:51:57 GMT

> pmele@ldgo.columbia.edu (phil mele) quotes the NY Times:

>	It says that, while homosexuality is "against
>	natural law," a "not negligible" number of men
>	and women present fundamental homosexual
>	tendencies.
>	"They do not choose their homosexual condition,"
>	it goes on.  "For most of them, it is an ordeal."
>
>i find it surprising that the church has accepted that homosexuality is
>not a choice and that there are a considerable number of us.

It would be even more surprising for the church to accept its
own not inconsiderable role in making people's "homosexual
condition" "an ordeal."
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
rod williams -=- pacific bell -=- san ramon, ca -=- rjwill6@pacbell.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: aberson@enh.nist.gov
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: RE: Men Not Getting It (was Re: Twice Fucked)
Date: 17 Nov 92 00:08:14 GMT
Organization: NIST

In a previous article, michaelh@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Mike Hennahane) wrote:
> 
>ps-yes, this implies that non-women can never "get it" wrt to what
>it's *really* like to be a woman (and that's it's horribly
>condescending for a man to say to a woman, "oh, i know exactly how you
>feel..." about anything woman-specific).  empathy is great, but i
>think that we have to be aware of its limitations. (ditto on race
>issues)


Or really just about anything else.  Today I travelled to Dadeland
for a conference.  The building, a dozen floors, which used to be glass,
was completely boarded up.  As I marvelled, I practically got my
head chewed off because I was a bit insensitive to someone who had
gone through a hell of a lot more in Andrew than I had.

Sim Aberson   Ft. Lauderdale, FL   aberson%3328.span@sdsc.edu

Hate, bigotry, and discrimination are not family values, even in
Colorado and Tampa.
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.bi
From: dwells@lonestar.utsa.edu (Darren . Wells)
Subject: Re: Oprah 11/19
Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 19:34:24 GMT

In article <By10MK.1Lp@fig.citib.com> glp@fig.citib.com (Greg Parkinson) writes:
>
>It's interesting to note that even if we got past
>the people who say "it's an evil choice" there are
>slews of people who say "I don't care if it's a choice,
>it's evil."

That right there is what scares me.  And that, unfortunately IMO, is
usually connected to or originated from Fundamentalist Christians.
It might just be that I have encountered an unrepresentative number
of them, but it seems like anytime I hear something along the lines
of "If my son told me he was a queer I'd disown him, because that's
going against God's will" it's coming from one of them, and it turns
my stomach.

It's ironic to look back on my earlier experiences, when I was a
Cathoholic for the most part, and hearing Gandhi say something like
if more Christians actually practiced what Christ taught, he would
convert to Christianity.  I didn't get it then.

Oh well.

Didn't mean to pick on the Christians, and sorry if I ruffled any
feathers out there, because I really didn't mean to.

>Some lesbians and gay men do not accept or feel bound by
>traditional restrictions on how men or women are supposed
>to dress or behave, so they pick and choose what feels
>comfortable to them.
>
>Because these people are visible as compared to the vast
>majority of gays and lesbians who are boringly conformist,
>many people think that *all* gays and lesbians are that
>way.  There's nothing wrong with people acting different
>from the norm - lots of straight people do it - the problem
>is when people who act that way are defined as being "bad".

I like you.  :)  *hug*  You are good at putting words together.
Let's do lunch sometime.  ;)

>My lover is a man; I am a man.

You can bring him too.  *wink*

Darren
From: richard@Apple.COM (a flying squirrel)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Food for thought, was : Bear Crap
Date: 22 Nov 92 02:01:10 GMT
Organization: Xiola Blue

Dave Kerlick writes:

>>GDM:
>>I realize we're probably not going to do away with the prejudice
>>against "overweight" any time soon; but there is no reason

>To put it in another light, how would tall people fell if they were
>referred to in the media and by others as "overheight?"

Are you suggesting that tall people be felled like trees?  ;^)

Your analogy does not wash, m'dear.  The common perception, right or
wrong, is that people can control their weight through exercise and
diet.  With vertical stature, one gets what one's genes dictate.  No
amount of "Richard Simmons' Deal-A-Meal" would shorten (or lengthen)
people.  Only a bandsaw could do that.
-- 
a flying squirrel is: richard@apple.com  Apple Computer Inc.

"Sex is a filter, and it admits a certain vision."  - William S. Burroughs
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Mike Reaser)
Subject: Re: Sam Num sucks and not well either
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 22:06:28 GMT
Organization: a stone mountain of Kudzu

In <Bxt1pp.CIJ@world.std.com> entropy@world.std.com (The Entropic one) writes:

>According to Clarinet Sam Num (democrat) is opposing the lifting of the
>military ban. Does anyone know anything about him? Does he have any good
>third party opponent?

The correct name is "Sam Nunn", he's _not_ currently up for election
(the Georgia U.S. Senate seat up for election is held by Wyche Fowler),
and the last time Nunn ran for reelection he ran unopposed -- the 
Republicans didn't run anyone against him, so don't jump for a "third-
party" candidate that doesn't exist in this state.  

The Libertarians _may_ run someone against Nunn in 1996 (given their 
success this year, getting 3% of the vote in the Seante race and 
forcing a first-ever runoff between the Republican and Democratic
nominees), but don't hold your breath.

--
=======================================================================
 Mike Reaser, Hewlett-Packard N. Amer. Response Center - Atlanta
 Internet:  mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com
 NBCS: B4 f w g+ k s-               I barely speak for myself, so
 #include <standard.disclaimer>       don't make me speak for HP
=======================================================================
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Rap (Yes, you're still in soc.motss) (Re: Marky Mark
Date: 21 Nov 1992 16:17:02 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <1992Nov21.204347.19624@spdcc.com> 
dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:

> Rap has always seemed influenced (to my white ears) by the whole
> oral tradition of the beat poets of the 50's.  At least they share
> the same oracular style.

Rap has always reminded me of parts of William Walton and 
Edith Sitwell's "Facade".

>  Am I totally off-base here?  Is this
> an example of heritage or simply convergent evolution?

Who knows?  And who cares?  I listen to as little rap
as I possibly can, which is still more than enough.

Arne

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance)
Subject: Re: FORWARDED POSTING
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 05:22:34 GMT

Yay! Waldeaux has internet access!

(I wonder if this will affect how BBC talks about him; he *does*
tend to objectify the poor thing)

--
John Dorrance        * Sexyfunky Motherfuckerdiva *   thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu

		I bet if you threw that ass into the air
			It'd turn into sunshine!
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: stephena@netcom.com (Stephen Arrants)
Subject: Re: The Hate Gene (was Re: Social Democracy)
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 22:26:01 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.010003.1940@wam.umd.edu> aap@wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo Pinkas) writes:
>In article <1992Nov16.225857.7844@macc.wisc.edu> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>>-- 
>>[Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin]
>>[Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson]
>>[Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888]
>>[---------> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <---------]
>
>OK. Now I know what are not family values.
>Can Mr. Anderson tell which are the ones that are  family values?

Well, I shouldn't speak for Jess (OK, I couldn't begin to speak for Jess...)
but family values......hmm.......kindness, concern, care, valuing truth, 
treating people "right", helping others, lots of others......
discrimination, hate and bigotry don't match up to anything on the list.


Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: paul@psych.toronto.edu (Paul Hastings)
Subject: Re: Surly French waiters
Organization: Department of Psychology, University of Toronto
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 20:51:45 GMT

In article <1992Nov21.212619.29280@microsoft.com> frankm@microsoft.com (Frank R.A.J. Maloney) writes:
>In article <nosenseofirony@kaa.gr.osf.org> emcmanus@gr.osf.org (Eamonn McManus) writes:
>>michaelh@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Mike Hennahane) writes:
>>>>> Ok, Matthew, what about that surly waiter you had??
>>>>He was French.
>>>need he say more?
>>>(you are correct, however, about it being *your* fault the Frenchman
>>>exhibited his natural inclinations towards French-ness...)
>>So Frenchmen are naturally surly, are they?  Well I suppose it might
>>seem that way to Americans, stupid and vulgar as they are.
>
>I must say I am disappointed in Eamonn for succumbing to the
>very natural urge to say something nasty to the m-person by
>heaping calumny on the other 300 million of us. I know I am
>neither stupid nor vulgar, and and I am an American.

Oh, c'mon, FRAJM, don't sell yourself short!
I'm sure if you try REAL HARD you can be 
vulgar, and even dumb as an ox.  Everyone 
can (just click yer pumps together 3 times,
and say...)


-- 
Aunt Em,
     Hate you.  Hate Kansas.
     Taking the dog.
                        Dot.
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: What Gay Sex (was Re: How Many Homosexuals?)
Date: 17 Nov 92 05:14:55 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Nov17.051455.24030
Reply-To: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

In article <1e9n0dINN5vg@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> ai888@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Thomas Flesher) writes:
>>  damn, and here I'd parsed "autochthonous" as
>>      auto-chthonous
>Correctly.

then how'd its pronunciation get shifted to
       ,
   au-toch-thon-ous?

>>which any student of obscure words will recognize as being a bizarre
>>way to say "self-destructive".

I would not say this again, if I were to consider myself more carefully.

>Maybe. Chthon (long o) is Greek for "earth, ground"; what conjectured 
>etymology led you to "destructive"?

I'm used to the form "chthonian" (as much as one is ever used to words
like this), meaning "infernal" or "demonic". Maybe "self-demonizing"
would be a more reasonable gloss, although that doesn't sound right
either. Well, at any rate we have our definition. Anyone care to quote
the OED definition for us?

>Do you mean that "chthonian" was once code for "gay", as "uranian"
>was? I'd never heard that.

Neither have I. Do you have a reference on it? Sounds neat.
                __
nelson@reed.edu \/                   Nothing is true; everything is permitted