From: bhat@cs.columbia.edu (Dinkar Bhat)
Subject: Re: More about India
Organization: Columbia University Department of Computer Science
Distribution: soc.culture.indian
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 21:52:01 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.202941.19878@meaddata.com> udcrusd@meaddata.com (Sylvia D'Cruz) writes:
>In article <1992Oct6.150358.28380@coe.montana.edu>, prem@cs.montana.edu (M.P.Premkumar) writes:
>|> Hi nettors,
>|> 
>|> The truth is people here are over exaggerating the issue very much. Yes, its
>|> true that eave teasing is there in big cities. But it doesn't mean that all
>|> men are like that. Maybe a few. But the few make their presence felt. One
>                      ^^^^^^^^^^^
>|> example I can offer in the same lines: The foul mouthing of some "civilised"
>|> nettors against some members of the opposite sex. If someone read SCI and
>|> decided that all Indian men are like that then will you all accept that ?
>
>In big cities, only a few stay away from eve teasing. For the majority, it is
>a game, that starts in secondary school itself. The whistling, the name calling
>and the mimicking of feminine gestures. These are some of the minor forms of it.And, guys generally feel MACHO, when they as part of a "guy" gang on street 
>corners, start their act on groups of females or women by themselves. And, how
>they laugh.... 
>
>And, during holi these eve teasers are really elated, they can target certain 
>locations and score a hit with their water balloons and colors.  I think we 
>need a law that restricts such activity, to your friends and invitee's in your 
>backyard or playground. This is one instance, where traditional customs need 
>modification, to suit changing needs.
>
>|> USA is better than India in treating women eh ? I assume people just study
>|> and study and don't look around what's happening here. Did any of you see
>|> the statistics of sexual harrasment in USA ? Did any of you see the series
>|> of women beating cases shown in CNN and other news bulletins ? Based on my
>|> observations I think USA treats women very very badly compared to India.
>
>There are no statistics or they are kept to a minimum in India in regard to
>most social aspects. Can you quote any statistics of sexual harrasment taken
>in the last few years, in India ?  Just because there are no statistics, don't
>presume that everything is just great about India. India has a large labor 
>force that has a lot of women in it, too. They are paid 1/3rd the salary of
>their male counterparts for the same task, and they are taken advantage of -
>yes sexually, too. I know cases where the female maids in a household, are
>sexually abused by the boss. The press is not muzzled, to the extent it is
>in India. So, just because you don't hear of serial killers, incest, patricide
>sexual harrassment etc, does not mean it is not happening.
>
>|> Here women are nothing but sex objects to men(most of them). Men stare here
>|> also at beautiful women passing all kinds of comments. Whereas in India the
>|> teasing stops in the roads here it follows the women wherever she goes. And
>|> they get beaten by their husbands(I accept that this is common in India too)
>|> and their boy friends. 
>
>Men over here, may glance their way, maybe smile and turn away. But, most of
>the men in India undress you with a hard stare and don't even think it is
>unpolite and ther gaze follows you till you are out of sight. And, yes, they 
>is no smile, just a gaping open mouth. Yes! they stare at low necks, girls in
>skirts and shorts. Ahh! but then it is not as common a sight as it is over here.
>Maybe that gives them a reason.........
>
>|> Guys here are always looking for women for sex. And most of them do get what
>|> they wanted by persuasion or force. Men go to bars to "pick up" girls for the
>|> night. The work place is also not so good to the women here. And I can tell
>|> for sure that offices in India are much better than here in the USA where
>|> women are always apprehensive of what might happen to them.
>
>Sorry to disappoint you pal! I have worked in India, and here, too. I have more
>opportunity, here, atleast to reach middle managment, than I have in India. My
>personal life does not crop up in job interviews, Performance Analysis, etc. I
>have never felt like a sex object at work, or for that matter on the streets.
>No, I come to work, get my job done and go home. I have never been apprehensive.
>
>I was more worried going to work in India, never knowing, when there would be a
>strike, and lack of transport to get home, the flooding in Bombay, a yearly
>episode, and yes being caught alone in the first class ladies compartment, in
>a train. Maybe it is a different lifestyle. But, in all honesty, I must say,
>I was scared coming home early in the mornings from the computer lab, here in 
>the US at school. But, atleast I had at my disposal campus security.
>
>Sylvia D. D'Cruz                                

When a woman has worked both in India and US talks about how difficult it
is in India, you better listen. Come on Mr. Premkumar, you are a man and
you say things are fine and wonderful in India, and a woman says its not
so, dont you think she is right. Especially when she gives coherent arguments.
Nobody is saying India is lousy in every way, only as far as womans rights
are concerned it is not at all good. I have known my own relatives having
such problems. In fact, when I and one of my relatives went down a road
along a beach in Madras, all those blood-suckers hoot (and they are college
students!!!!!). Dont give that naive argument that women have to go about
only in saris.BULL SHIT. If you see the rape crisis declaration here, it
clearly says rape is NEVER  the fault of the woman. In India, if a woman
is raped it means she was wearing a provocative dress and hence it is quite
natural to be raped!! Great logic, isn't it.

Dinkar