HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar)
Subject: Re: Trivia : What is the Christian argument for vegetarianism ?
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 02:18:20 GMT

tinamou@ferris.cray.com (Doug Nicholson) writes:

>In article <altar.721845648@sfu.ca> altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar) writes:

>[some references to Christ's being a vegetarian deleted for the sake
> of brevity]

>1.  Most people believe that Christ's confrontation at the temple was
>    a reaction to certain individuals turning a place for the worship
>    of God into a place for the conduct of commerce.  This is because
>    the accounts do not refer solely to the sale of animals for
>    sacrifice but also to "moneychangers".

That's true, but the anger can also be seen as directed towards
the sale of animals as well, since they too were chased out.


>2.  Am I to infer that Christ prescribed vegetarianism because he was
>    a vegetarian?  By that logic I would also have to infer that he
>    prescribed celibacy because by all accounts he was celibate!

Well, that is exactly how many Church's indeed intepreted
the view that if not celibacy, then "it is better to marry than
to burn".  After all, we are supposed to know the "true"
voices by their "works", and would even the Christian God
look down lovingly and approvingly at the Draize Test and
the untold suffering incurred by factory farming techniques?

Anyway, the text is incomplete and we could alwaysd
speculate that some explicit directives to not eat meat
could have been expunged or lost. In which case, we have
no alternative but to attempt a thoughtful exegesis of
what remains in order to reconstruct what might indeed be
the consistency of a vegetarian practice with the best 
spirit of what might be meant by "mercy, not sacrifice".

                                             ted
From: das@voodoo.boeing.com (Deb Schwartz)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: miso recipe?
Date: 17 Nov 92 17:29:25 GMT
Organization: Yet Another Graphics Project, Bellevue, WA

In article <1992Nov16.225611.7766@muddcs.claremont.edu> omitchel@jarthur.claremont.edu (Ocie *crow* Mitchell) writes:
>served a soup that they called miso.  It had a slightly salty broth with
>pieces of tofu at the bottom.  What is the relation to miso (soup) and miso
>(gravy/ chicken stock replacer)?
>
Miso itself is fermented soybean paste.  There are many different varieties of
miso - white, yellow, red, some contain rice, others wheat, etc.  Every little
town in Japan has its own traditional recipes.  Basic miso soup consists of
soup stock (traditionally it is fish stock, I make it out of kombu (a type
of seaweed, and it tastes just fine)) with miso paste stirred in.  In Japan,
miso soup can have all sorts of things added - tofu, vegetables etc.  It's
pretty much a throw-what-appeals-to-you-into-it type of soup.  Miso paste
is also used as a seasoning on fish and I've seen vegetables pickled in it.
(I lived in Japan for a year and a half).

On the European side of things, red miso makes a great addition to 
spagetti sauce (a tablespoon or two to taste).
------
Debbie Schwartz // das@voodoo.ca.boeing.com  // ....uw-beaver!bcsaic!voodoo!das
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: mvms@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (mary.spinazola)
Subject: EIDER DOWN
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 16:02:13 GMT
Keywords: WHERE CAN I FIND CLOTHES WITH EIDER

***************************************************************************
		AWHILE BACK THIS WAS ON THE BOARD
***************************************************************************


While in Iceland, years ago, I helped a person collect Eider down.  The 
duck(in this case) plucks the down and lines the nest with it.  You collect
the down and it replaces it.  They were very careful not to take too much
so as to not cause the duck or it's eggs any problems(no eggs, no ducks,
no down, no money).  They also do alot to protect the nesting areas for
the ducks.  Iceland uses and exports alot of the stuff, so not all of it
comes at the expense of the animals.

  TED FEUERBACH   Scientific Systems Consultant  Trilogy Consulting, Inc. 
  Lake St. Louis, MO        (314) 537-6603       tjfeue@bb1t.monsanto.com
  Disclaimer:  The opinions expressed herein are MY OWN and obviously not
  the opinions of Trilogy, Monsanto or either of my two ex-wives.           
***************************************************************************
    
                          QUESTION


Ted do you know of a company i can order clothes made with
Eider down?

mary spinazola   att!mvgpk!mvms    508-960-6748
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: carroll@hercules.cis.udel.edu (Mark C. Carroll)
Subject: Re: Canola oil?
Organization: University of Delaware, Newark
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 15:46:59 GMT

In article <1461@eouk13.eoe.co.uk> pwestlak@eoe.co.uk (Peter Westlake) writes:
>
>I've seen canola oil in several recipes, but never heard of it.
>Is it known by a different name in Britain, or is it not
>sold here?
>

Canola is a _very_ light oil, which is very low in unhealthy fats. (My
apoligies for not being more specific; I've got a lousy memory, and I
always confused the mono-onsaturated fats and the poly-onsaturated
fats...)

Canola is very good for cooking, because it is very light, cooks well
at high heat, and doesn't add any strong flavors to the foods you're
cooking. 

It's very similar to sunflower seed oil, or any other light,
flavorless oil.

	<MC>

-- 
|| Mark Craig Carroll: <MC>     || "There is no such thing as a problem 
|| Univ of Delaware, Dept of CIS||  without a gift for you in its hands. You
|| Grad Student/Labstaff Hacker ||  seek problems because you need their 
|| carroll@udel.edu             ||  gifts" - _Illusions_, by Richard Bach
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: pwestlak@eoe.co.uk (Peter Westlake)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: LIST OF SUBSTANCES DERIVED FROM ANIMALS
Date: 16 Nov 92 13:51:12 GMT
Organization: EO Europe Limited, Cambridge, UK
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

Thank you for posting this list. While useful, it would be
a lot more so if it distinguished between products that
involve killing or harming animals and those that need not,
like eggs.

On a related note, the recent thread about milk made me
wonder: as many (all?) Hindus are vegetarian, and furthermore
revere the cow as sacred, where does all the yogurt used in
Indian meals comes from? Is there in fact a way to milk
cows without killing calfs?

Peter.
-- 
Peter M Westlake                        EO Computer Ltd.,
Tel: +223-843131                        Abberley House,  Granhams Road,
Fax: +223-843032                        Great Shelford,
email:  pwestlak@eoe.co.uk              Cambridge CB2 5LQ,   England
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: So-Called Vitamin D (update)
Date: 17 Nov 92 05:55:17 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Nov17.055517.18226
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1992Nov16.211715.573@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
>The past two articles, for one.  You posted Moon's article once before.

I should really be more exact here.  Ted did not post Moon's article
from what I can see.  He posted a tract of his own which is claimed to
be drawn on Moon's research as well as some others.  That is, it's a
concoction filtered thru Ted's understanding of medicine and biochemistry,
the limitations of which he has already admitted here.  I would like to
be clear that my comments (and my comments from August, as as Rich Young
reminds me, my comments from March) are all addressing Ted's article.
(Essentially the same one he's reposted on the net three times now.)
For all I know, Dr. Moon is not a looney-tune, and Ted is doing him
a grave misservice by attempting to represent him to his adoring public
in rec.food.veg.  Or maybe not.

The latest MEDLINE references don't yet have an issue of the Journal of
the American College of Nutrition past 11(4); Moon's appears in 11(5),
so I can't order a copy of Moon's published article yet.  I will do so
once I get the opportunity.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: c188-am@po.berkeley.edu (Leor Jacobi)
Subject: Re: Kindred spirits (Vegans)
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 10:16:17 GMT

avi@hawk.imagen.com writes:

>Thanks for your post about Uri Geller and the numerous scientifical studies
>that were done on him.

>Note, however, that I cited as an example the famous experiments where he
>goes on the air (Radio or TV) and make CLOCKS and WATCHES in
>different houses around the country, simultaneously, which were broken for a 
>long time,(sometimes for YEARS) suddenly, start to work.

>And, I wouldn't accept the argument of accomplices phoning in from all over
>because I saw such a watch IN MY OWN EYES, as my brother had a watch which was
>completely broken for over 3 years. As well, neighbours & friends reported the
>same and judging from the responses to the Radio program - there were HUNDREDS
>of others all over the country that had the same experience.

>I did not see ANY of the cited scientific research that you quoted - tackle
>this phenomena. I am not saying he is not a fraud, I'm just saying the
>burden of proof FOR THIS PHENOMENA (and not trivial "bent spoons" ,etc.) 
>lays on the scientists if they claim that he is a fraud.

You are mistaken here.
The burden of proof lies with Uri Geller.  Period.

>Do you know if ANY of the cited works specifically tackle this phenomena
>of massive country-wide influence of broken objects ?

>Also, some of the cited examples said how Uri Geller "MIGHT" have done it.
>This does not mean that he did it this way. Suppose somebody has a real
>supernatural powers (for argument sake) and manages to fly in the air,
>you could say "well, he could have had a small jet engine hidden under his
>jacket, etc."  - but that does not means that that's what he did !

>So, to sum it all up, do you know of any scientifical explanation for the
>"broken clocks" phenomena and/or an account/confession about this sepcific
>thing (NOT spoon bending and other trivial "magic" tricks) ?

I am new to this newsgroup and do not think that this is the place to
discuss this subject.  I cannot help myself here.

Here is my summary of the skeptik's position:

"Anything that cannot be repeated in a scientific study is not to be
believed."

This seems to me, perfectly reasonable.
If Geller can really perform these tricks, why can't he do it again?
If he refuses to repeat these stunts, while he is being scrutinized to insure
that no sleight-of-hand is being performed, then I have no choice but to
disregard your "evidence" and assume that you were tricked.  This conclusion
is more in keeping with the principle of "Occam's Razor".
How else can I keep my sanity in this world?

Buy Organic!

--
 Leor Jacobi                ,__o  |"If you're wondering why all the love that
 leor@ocf.berkeley.edu    _-\_<,  | you long for eludes you...I'll tell you
 c188-am@po.berkeley.edu (*)/'(*) | why...but you wouldn't believe me.  You
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=| just haven't earned it yet, baby." - Smiths
From: sbhattac@rnd.GBA.NYU.EDU (Shankar Bhattacharyya)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Indian (sort of) recipe: Pongali
Date: 19 Nov 92 12:18:57 GMT
Organization: NYU Stern School of Business

In article <1992Nov19.001612.10540@u.washington.edu> twain@milton.u.washington.edu (Barbara Hlavin) writes:

>Arun Meda Sannuti mentions curry leaves, and Helge Hauglin asks if 
>Arun means bay leaves.  Arun says 

>We have a box of curry leaves in our cupboard.  (Neither of us knows 
>where they came from, or what to do with them, but we keep moving the 
>box around with us.)  As I recall, the label reads simply "Curry Leaves."

For what it's worth, the name is pronounced with a bit of a hard r, close
to a "d". I would transcibe the name as "kadi leaves". They are slightly
bitter, and very pleasantly flavoured. Unfortunately, the dried leaves lose
much of the flavour, but they are still useful.

Kadi leaves are widely used in western and southern India. I'll see about
posting a recipe for a simple curry using them, in which they dominate the
flavour. Perhaps over the weekend.

- Shankar
From: timi@mendel.berkeley.edu ( Tim Ikeda)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Vegans Statistic
Date: 20 Nov 1992 00:38:16 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: mendel.berkeley.edu

Teaser: Recipe for "Baked stuffed tomato with Bulgur" included at end.

From: rhart@haas.berkeley.edu (Richard Hart)
>Does anyone know offhand how many vegans (folks who eat no
>animal products) there are in the US? A percentage would be
>fine. This is for a business plan for a health food company.

I saw an article about this in the Contra Costa Times (CA newspaper)
(Wed. Nov 4, 1992 <post-election day>- Food section pg. 3E)
Digging deep into the compost pile which serves as my desk...

The text is:
"More in U.S. are vegetarians"
by Corydon Ireland
Gannett News Service

Some 12 million adults in the U.S. - 6.7% of the population -
now call themselves vegetarians, according to a new study from
Vegetarian Times magazine.

A 1985 Gallup poll put that figure at 3.7%.

Some other facts the survey uncovered:
o Two out of five vegetarians today changed their diet within the last
five years.

o 2/3rds of the vegetarians are women.

o Vegetarians are more likely than the average citizen to have graduated
from college, to have a white collar job and to be over 40.

o Nearly all of them (89%) made the decision to become a vegetarian on
their own; only 11% did so on the advice of a doctor.

o Most switched for health reasons.

o At least once a week, many of the vegetarians tapped for the survey
eat eggs (38%) and dairy products (79%).  Only 4% of the respondents
eat no animal products.

o Interestingly, many of these self-described vegetarians (40%) eat
fish and poultry at least once a week. A few (10%) even eat red meat
once a week.

(remainder deleted -- It was a recipe for "Baked stuffed tomato
with Bulgur")
****** transcript ends********

A rough calculation puts the "no meat products" vegetarians at about
0.27% (0.04x6.7%) of the US pop (or about 480,000 people). The data is too
ambiguous to guess what the "ovo-lacto" vegetarian percentage is
(somewhere <4% (0.6x6.7%)).

I haven't seen the Vegetarian Times source article.

Regards,
Tim Ikeda

PS. OK, here's the recipe for "Baked stuffed tomato with Bulgur"

Serves 4

4 medium size tomatoes
3 ounces bulgur
2 shallots
1 garlic clove
2 jalapeno peppers
1/2 bunch fresh basil
2 scallions
4 sun dried tomatoes
1 ounce white bread crumbs
1 cup chopped herbs (majoram, thyme, parsley, rosemary)

o Cook bulgur in vegetable stock. Chop all ingredients (except herbs)
finely, then saute.

o Preheat oven to 400 deg F [205 deg C for those in the civilized world].
Coat a baking pan with nonstick spray.  Peel tomato and hollow out
from the bottom.  Fill tomato with stuffing. Coat tomato with
breadcrumbs and herbs. Bake 15 to 20 minutes.

Nutritional data:
146 calories            6 g protein
                       31 g carbo
                        1 g fat  (7% of total calories)
                      374 mg sodium


Newsgroups: rec.food.veg,sci.med.nutrition,sci.med
From: young@serum.kodak.com (Rich Young)
Subject: Vitamin C and colds/flu
Followup-To: sci.med.nutrition
Originator: young@sasquatch
Reply-To: young@serum.kodak.com
Organization: Clinical Diagnostics Division, Eastman Kodak Company
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 15:48:12 GMT

   This is from the TUFTS UNIVERSITY DIET AND NUTRITION LETTER: Vol. 10,
   No. 10, December 1992.  It is posted without permission and has been
   cross-posted to rec.food.veg because there is some interest in supplemen-
   tation in that group; please note followup address.

     "C" CAN BE MORE TROUBLE THAN IT'S WORTH

	You feel a cold coming on.  Or you expect you will at some point
	during the winter.  And although you have heard there is no
	scientific proof that vitamin C can ward off a cold or that it
	can make you feel better once you do get the sniffles, you decide
	to join the ranks of Americans who spend some $350 million each
	year on vitamin C pills, the top sellers among single-nutrient
	supplements.  After all, several of your friends swear by it, 
	and even if it doesn't help, can it hurt?  As long as you're
	asking, the self-prescribed "antidote" can cause worse symptoms
	than the cold it is meant to quell.

	Consider that when researchers at Arizona State University gave
	nine men and women 500 milligrams of vitamin C daily -- more than
	eight times the Recommended Daily Allowance for the nutrient, yet
	an amount commonly found in just one pill -- two people complained
	of chronic diarrhea within two weeks.  When the researchers
	increased the dosage to 2,000 milligrams a day, two more people
	suffered dry nose and nosebleeds.  In other words, almost half 
	the group had adverse reactions, which is why you might want to 
	think twice about taking megadoses of vitamin C during the cold
	and flu season.


-Rich Young (These are not Kodak's opinions.)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: mvms@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (mary.spinazola)
Subject: EIDER DOWN again.
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 19:59:11 GMT
Keywords: I lost my mail, please Please please send again


I know some one sent me mail on where to get Eider Down
but I lost  it.  

Please send again.

Please
mary spinazola
att!mvgpk!mvms

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: rfelix@netcom.com (Robbie Felix)
Subject: Thanks giving menu recipies
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 20:31:32 GMT

I posted an earlier menu for Thanksgiving and someone requested the
recipies...

I will have to do these one at a time as I have the time, but here is
the stuffing with Seitan recipe...

Stuffing with Seitan


1 Tblsp oil, margarine or butter
1 recipe of cornbread ( whichever one you use) 9x9 loaf aprox.
2 c. chopped celery
1/2 c. chopped scallions
1/2 c. chopped red pepper ( or canned pimentos)
2-5 cloves squished garlic
1/2 c. chopped parsley
1 6-10 oz package prepared seitan
1 veggie boullion cube in 1 c. warm water
poultry seasoning to taste
egg, optional

saute parsley, peppers, celery, onions and garlic in fat til
translucent. Crumble cornbread in very large bowl into little pieces.
Pour sauteed veggies into bread crumbles. Chop seitan and mix in to
the bread mixture. I use about two tsp of poutry seasoning, you may
want more... add poultry seasoning.

Mix it all up. Add enough boullion to moisten well ( don't make it
soggy) and egg if desired. Mix well, put in well oiled baking dish
and bake for 45 minutes covered and 10 additional minutes uncovered at
350 degrees.

Other possible additions:

artichoke hearts
water chesnuts
mixed veggies
olives
nuts
seeds


Happy Holidays to all!
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: rwarren@vax2.concordia.ca (Rosemary A. Warren -- Montreal, Quebec, Canada)
Subject: Re: American Celebrity Vegetarians
Summary: a couple more for your list...  
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Keywords: Jackson
Organization: Concordia University
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 15:11:00 GMT

In article <1992Nov05.185423.9178@dircon.co.uk>, uad1214@dircon.co.uk (Peter Cox) writes...
> 
> 
>Could anyone tell me if there's a list of U.S.
>celebrities who are known to be vegetarian?
> 
>If not, could anyone suggest a few likely names.
>I need this info for an article I'm currently writing.
>Thanks!

vegetarianism is growing in popularity with musicians.  off the top of my 
head, i can think of michael jackson, paul & linda mccartney, madonna.  i 
believe michael's brother jermaine took a stab at vegetarianism for awhile, 
but i don't know if he still is one.

"Eat it, eat it, if it's gettin' cold, reheat it ..."
	Weird Al Yankovic, "Eat It"

Rosemary Warren		rwarren@topaz.concordia.ca
Montreal's Favorite Jacksonmaniac !!!
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Well, I have a question for Ted...
Date: 22 Nov 92 09:19:54 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Nov22.091954.13459
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1992Nov20.220834.4726@news2.cis.umn.edu> fend0001@student.tc.umn.edu () writes:
>
>Steve Dyer pointed out that vitamin D was not necessarily the same type of
>steroid as (or even at all similar to) anabolic steroid hormone.  Yet your
>article, Ted implied that vitamin D was dangerous because it was and/or
>did act as that kind of hormone.
>
>Could you elaborate on your conclusions about the similar dangers of these
>two substances?

Well, let's see: I've corrected that canard at least three times;
that is, each time Ted Altar posted it, yet when he's confronted
with this correction, he can't address it, preferring to whine
about "civil discourse".  Of course he can't address corrections; he's
admitted that he's ignorant of biochemistry, and only seems to parrot
uncritically what's fed to him by Moon.  Trying to scare the masses into
thinking vitamin D is dangerous because it's a "steroid" is the rhetorical
equivalent of Bush's attempt to demean Clinton by pointing to his trip
to Moscow as a student.  Both are simply facts which signify nothing by them-
selves.  You tell any biochemist, medical doctor, nutritionist or pharma-
cologist that vitamin D is a steroid, and they'll say "Yeah, so?  Tell me
something interesting."

Perhaps Ted could at least clarify whether this particular piece
of rhetorical mish-mash is his own fault, that is, due to a misunderstanding
of what Moon is claiming, or whether this sleight of hand is entirely
Moon's fault.  That's about the most that we can expect from him.


-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg