HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mckellar@author.ecn.purdue.edu (Michael G McKellar)
Subject: Re: Penn and Teller
Keywords: P& T
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 15:59:07 GMT

In article <BxC3un.GBE@news.cso.uiuc.edu> elbel@symcom.math.uiuc.edu (Jeffrey Elbel) writes:
>I shall attempt to post my brief interview article with Teller here.
>I hope it works.  
>
>In answer to a few specific questions, Penn said that only amateur
>magicians have ever hated them for "revealing secrets."  He even told
>of joking in a room with Siegfried and Roy, and David Copperfield in
>which Copperfield said that a photo of them together could ruin P&T's
>career!
>
>Penn also says that he was NOT a member of the Residents, but had great
>affection for their work, and would deny being a member even if
>he was one.  Go figure.  He does play a mean bass.  "Domestication
>of the Animals" was really cool last night.
>
>Here goes...
>
>~r AAA-file.txt
>
>Jeff
>
>If that didn't work, I'll find someone who knows how to transfer files
>in here.
>
>Does anyone know- is the Henry Hay book "Amateur Magicians Handbook"
>or something like that title, easy to locate?  How much $?
>Teller recommended it.
>

It is probably the easiest of all books to find.  It is in paperback
and costs about $5.00.  In my opinion it is probably the best $5.00
you'll spend.  I've learned some very nices card sleights from this
book.  It also has a great section on the philosophy of magic.

I highly recommend it.  You can probably get it at any magic shop.  If 
you can't find it try ordering the book through Walden or B Dalton
book stores.


Mike McKellar (mgq@inel.gov)
Newsgroups: alt.magic
From: jhands@eng.clemson.edu (Matt Hands)
Subject: Re: Call for votes: To reveal or not to reveal.
Reply-To: jhands@eng.clemson.edu
Organization: College of Engineering, Clemson Univ.
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 19:58:22 GMT

 
PART OF THE WORLD YOU LIVE IN:Clemson and Myrtle Beach,South Carolina

MAGICIAN or LAYPERSON:Magician
If Magician:  TYPE OF MAGIC:All, but specifically restaurant/close-up
              AGE:19
              YEARS OF EXPERIENCE:3

If Layperson: AGE:_____________
              WHY DO YOU READ THIS GROUP:_______________________

DO YOU BELIEVE THAT IT IS DETRIMENTAL TO THE ART OF MAGIC TO POST
"INSIDER" INFORMATION PERTAINING TO THE METHODS USED TO ACHIEVE
A MAGICAL EFFECT:_No______

WHY/WHY NOT:   I believe that if there is an public exchange of secrets on the 
		newsgroup, the benefits will outweigh the consequences. The 
		knowledge gained from the many magicians on this group will
		help enhance everyone's performance.  Revealing secrets or tips
		is purely voluntary.  By all means, no one should feel obligated
		to give away their pet trick (or any effect for that matter), 
		if they do not want to.
		As for the laypeople who read the group, they seem to be truly 
		interested in the art of magic.  They probably understand that
		magicians never usually reveal the secret and that their
		knowledge should not be spread to all.

ADDITIONAL COMMENTS:_____________________________________________

 

Newsgroups: alt.magic
From: bpeal@eng.clemson.edu (brian (malibu) peal)
Subject: Re:  A Book for Card Magicians
Reply-To: bpeal@eng.clemson.edu
Organization: College of Engineering, Clemson Univ.
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 02:12:27 GMT

So Thorin,

What is the name of that book? How much? ???

Malibu

Newsgroups: alt.magic
From: cragaisi@nyx.cs.du.edu (Chris)
Subject: Re: Question
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 92 16:57:44 GMT

If you happend to do any kind of color change (i.e. the backs of the cards
change colors) it's even more powerful if the back _pattern_ changes as
well.  Bulldog Squeezers has a very different back pattern (a picture
of a couple of bulldogs), a nice white border stripe, and is poker sized
(a boon when it comes to card tricks - bridge size just doesn't cut it
for me).

I use them in a couple of color change routines, and in Chameleon cards
(reworked into Invasion of the Card-Body Snatchers).

Chris
Reality Check Illusions
--
	"The plan was simple.  Unfortunately, so was Bullwinkle."
From: HCM100@psuvm.psu.edu (Sleight of Hans)
Newsgroups: alt.magic
Subject: Call for votes: To reveal or not to reveal...
Date: 5 Nov 92 13:46:30 GMT
Organization: Penn State University

If you read this group (magician or not), if you even *LURK* on this group,
or if you are just passing through, PLEASE respond to this post and let
everyone here know that you exist.  I would like to determine the scope
of the readers on this group for a potential FAQ.

PART OF THE WORLD YOU LIVE IN:_____________________

MAGICIAN or LAYPERSON:___________________

If Magician:  TYPE OF MAGIC:____________________
              AGE:_____________
              YEARS OF EXPERIENCE:_____________

If Layperson: AGE:_____________
              WHY DO YOU READ THIS GROUP:_______________________

DO YOU BELIEVE THAT IT IS DETRIMENTAL TO THE ART OF MAGIC TO POST
"INSIDER" INFORMATION PERTAINING TO THE METHODS USED TO ACHIEVE
A MAGICAL EFFECT:__________

WHY/WHY NOT:_____________________________________________________

ADDITIONAL COMMENTS:_____________________________________________

I will summarize and post results in 2 weeks.

| O |                                                                   | O |
|   | Hans C. Masing          "By all means marry: If you get a good    |   |
| O | HCM100 @ PSUVM.psu.edu   wife, you'll become happy; if you get    | O |
|   | HCM100 @ CBA1.psu.edu    a bad one, you'll become a philosopher." |   |
| O | Penn State MIS Dept.                           - Socrates         | O |
|   |                                                                   |   |
From: tnielson@spock.NMSU.Edu (THORIN NIELSON)
Newsgroups: alt.magic
Subject: A Book for Card Magicians
Date: 11 Nov 92 17:23:40 GMT
Organization: New Mexico State University



The BEST BOOK IN THE WORLD!!!!

If you want to learn how to do first-rate card tricks (I do), go out and find  
the  <<<<Larry Jennings>>>> book. This guy is the absolute Ninja. He is right  
up there with Brother Hamman (sp?). I mean it. You won't regret it. 

This is also my 2  regarding the FAQ. I think it's a great idea, as long as you  
put ol' Larry (see above) in there somewhere.

Whatever you guys decide, this is the greatest newsgroup,
Thorin Nielson
From: barnett@grymoire.crd.ge.com (Bruce Barnett)
Newsgroups: alt.magic
Subject: Some History (alt.magic vs. the mailing list)
Date: 6 Nov 92 18:06:20 GMT
Reply-To: barnett@crdgw1.ge.com
Organization: GE Corp. R & D, Schenectady, NY


This may be a duplicate posting of article
BARNETT.92Nov4100600@grymoire.crd.ge.com . If so, I'm sorry. 
It is an important point that I want to bring up.


Some history here..... I was not in favor of alt.magic, because I did
not want to discuss some topics in a public forum. It was created
anyway, and I wanted to minimize the damage this newsgroup could
cause.  Therefore I started the magic mailing list as a place
magicians can freely exchange information without the public listening
in. After all, it only takes a few seconds to add alt.magic to your
list of subscribed newsgroups. And fact it - EVERYONE loves magic! :-)

The mailing list currently has 142 members. (send mail to
magic-request@crdgw1.ge.com for more details).

 Case in point: There are some gadgets that I don't want the public to
know about. The less said about the secret devices in a public forum,
the better. 

 Case in point - a discussion of the method used by a magician on TV.
I will discuss this with magicians, but don't want to post in in a
forum where tens of thousands of people can eavesdrop. Let the public
wonder how the latest miracle was accomplished. 

 By the way, the latest survey says an estimated 13,000 people read
this newsgroup. This is 0.8% of the USENET population. 

 For more info, see news.lists, article  <1992Nov2.155335.13975@PA.dec.com>
Mon, 2 Nov 92 15:53:35 GMT
 Don't argue with me about the derivation of the figures, please.  I
really don't care.  Here are some figures from the above article:

	 +-- Estimated total number of people who read the group, worldwide.
	 |     +-- Actual number of readers in sampled population
	 |     |     +-- Propagation: how many sites receive this group at all
	 |     |     |      +-- Recent traffic (messages per month)
	 |     |     |      |      +-- Recent traffic (kilobytes per month)
	 |     |     |      |      |      +-- Crossposting percentage
	 |     |     |      |      |      |    +-- Cost ratio: $US/month/rdr
	 |     |     |      |      |      |    |      +-- Share: % of newsrders
	 |     |     |      |      |      |    |      |   who read this group.
	 V     V     V      V      V      V    V      V
   1 190000  5837   90%    10   158.1   100%  0.00  12.1%  news.announce.newusers 
[...]
 847  13000   391   57%   135   199.1     2%  0.02   0.8%  alt.magic 

--
Bruce Barnett <barnett@crd.ge.com> uunet!crdgw1!barnett
From: sjgavula@css.itd.umich.edu (Susan Gavula)
Newsgroups: alt.magic
Subject: Mistake
Date: 11 Nov 1992 06:09:33 GMT
Organization: University of Michigan ITD Consulting and Support Services
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: stimpy.css.itd.umich.edu
Originator: news@stimpy.css.itd.umich.edu


I accidentally posted an article here that was 
meant for alt.magick.  
I apologize for the mistake

Susan
From: gumby@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (David Brian Gumminger)
Newsgroups: alt.magic
Subject: Penn & Teller Videos
Date: 12 Nov 1992 13:52:44 -0600
Organization: Kansas State University
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: matt.ksu.ksu.edu
Keywords: Penn&Teller

In article <WVOSS.34.0@novell.com> WVOSS@novell.com (Wes Voss) writes:
>Are any of you aware of any Penn and Teller videos out there, and where I 
>might be able to get ahold of one?

There are three Penn and Teller videos that I am aware of:
1: Cruel Tricks for Dear Friends, The video version of their book of the
    same name.  The Tricks are different than those in the book.  You 
    actually use portions of the video to play the pranks. Hilarious.

2: Penn and Teller Go Public: A 30 minute video which I beleive was
    originally a PBS special.  They do some of their classic bits like
    the handstab and Teller's Straight-jacket escape. A mini-concert if
    you will.

3: Penn and Teller Get Killed:  An actual movie about Penn and Teller.
    Penn and Teller guest star on a talk show.  Penn mentions how 
    exciting he thinks life would be if someone were trying to kill him.
    You guessed it.  Someone takes him seriously!!  Some good magic and
    lots of humor.

Where do you get them?  I checked the local video store and I can order
all three through them.  So, I would suggest that you look in your local   
video store.  I know you can get the Cruel Tricks video via Penn and
Tellers fan club (sorry don't have the address with me), but I'm not
sure about the others.

Dave


-- 
David B. Gumminger
Kansas State University
gumby@matt.ksu.ksu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.magic
From: tesla@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Jon Nash)
Subject: IBM/SAM membership
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1992 15:24:42 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523

A recent post requested the address for IBM.  This address and the one for
SAM has been supplied.  All this brings up a question...  I'm new to magic,
6 months, and I'ld like to know what is necissary in order to join IBM or SAM.
From what I have heard a lot of very interesting people demonstrate a lot of
very interesting effects at these conventions.  I have also heard that it is
difficult to get into the "in" group.

What is the cost of a SAM or IBM membership?
Which do you prefer? Why?
For the price of the membership dues what do you get?  Magazines?  Conference
     tickets?
Besides the dues and the interest on my part what else do I need to do to join?

Thanks in advance!
E-mail is prefered, but if you think your answer would benefit others others
then please post!

Jon Nash             Tesla@Lamar.ColoState.EDU
From: mjamroz@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Margaret Jamroz)
Newsgroups: alt.magic
Subject: Re: Penn & Teller Book/ Show
Keywords: Penn & Teller
Date: 5 Nov 92 21:34:45 GMT
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.

In article <1dbuduINN9rd@matt.ksu.ksu.edu> gumby@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (David Brian Gumminger) writes:
>
>I was in my local bookstore today looking for Penn & Teller's new book.
>I thought it was called _How_to_play_with_Your_Food_ and was due out
>on the first of November.  Waldenbooks, however, tells me they've never
>heard of it.  Anyone know the scoop on the book?                       

Dave, 

The book (according to Penn) will be out on November 9.  If you can get it
before the show, bring it with you.  The guys always hang out in the lobby
after the shows and chat with the fans.  And they're always nice about signing
autographs if you ask.


As a side note, the Chicago Sun-Times reviewed it yesterday and gave it a
rave.  

FYI - P & T will be at the University of Illinois tonight, the Peoria Civic
Center on Friday night and at Northwest Missouri State on Monday.


maggie
resident techno goddess, nwu med school
Newsgroups: alt.magic
From: rogue@ccs.northeastern.edu (Free Radical)
Subject: Open or Closed
Summary: open
Organization: College of CS, Northeastern U
Distribution: alt
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 13:39:20 GMT

	This whole discussion of open or closed is sort of silly.  I
mean, ifthis was a moderated group, under say the rec. heirarchy, the
moderator could enforce a rule of non-disclosure.  But this is altnet.
Altnet is anarchy, pure and simple.  If I want to discuss a specific
effect, I will; there is very little anyone can do about it, except
sulk and whine.  Sulk and whine if you wish - it won't stop me, and I
hope it won't stop others.  

	RA

rogue@ccs.northeastern.edu (The Rogue Agent)
----------------------------------------
The NSA is now funding research not only in cryptography, but in all areas
of advanced mathematics. If you'd like a circular describing these new
research opportunities, just pick up your phone, call your mother, and
ask for one.
Newsgroups: alt.magic
From: FLANAGA@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU (Scott Flanagan)
Subject: Re: Call for votes: To reveal or not to reveal...
Organization: Rice University  
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 21:47:51 GMT

In article <92310.084630HCM100@psuvm.psu.edu>
Sleight of Hans <HCM100@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
 
>
>If you read this group (magician or not), if you even *LURK* on this group,
>or if you are just passing through, PLEASE respond to this post and let
>everyone here know that you exist.  I would like to determine the scope
>of the readers on this group for a potential FAQ.
>
>PART OF THE WORLD YOU LIVE IN:_Houston, TX, USA____
>
>MAGICIAN or LAYPERSON:_magician__________
>
>If Magician:  TYPE OF MAGIC:_not currently practicing magic
>              AGE:_26__________
>              YEARS OF EXPERIENCE:_13__________
>
>If Layperson: AGE:_____________
>              WHY DO YOU READ THIS GROUP:_______________________
>
>DO YOU BELIEVE THAT IT IS DETRIMENTAL TO THE ART OF MAGIC TO POST
>"INSIDER" INFORMATION PERTAINING TO THE METHODS USED TO ACHIEVE
>A MAGICAL EFFECT:_Absolutely not!
>
>WHY/WHY NOT:_The information is available to anyone who wants it.
Magicians who claim that secrecy protects their livelihood are depriving
developing magicians who read the net to try and learn new material of
THEIR livelihood.
A good magician can put on a stunning show even if the entire audience
knows every trick.  For example, a show performed at an IBM or SAM meeting
would garner the same response as if it were performed in front of laymen;
if it is a good show, it's a good show, period.
>
>ADDITIONAL COMMENTS:_____________________________________________
>
>I will summarize and post results in 2 weeks.
>
>| O |                                                                   | O |
>|   | Hans C. Masing          "By all means marry: If you get a good    |   |
>| O | HCM100 @ PSUVM.psu.edu   wife, you'll become happy; if you get    | O |
>|   | HCM100 @ CBA1.psu.edu    a bad one, you'll become a philosopher." |   |
>| O | Penn State MIS Dept.                           - Socrates         | O |
>|   |                                                                   |   |
Newsgroups: alt.magic
From: WVOSS@novell.com (Wes Voss)
Subject: Re: Penn & Teller Review
Keywords: Penn&Teller
Organization: Novell, Inc.
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 18:45:08 GMT

>My apologies to Penn and Teller for saying so many nice things.  They've
>thrived on the "bad boys of magic" image for revealing things on stage and
>producing so much blood.  But these guys are truely fabulous performers and
>really high-class individuals.

Being new to this stuff, I am just learning to appreciate many of the people 
out there. I have become particularly intrigued with Penn and Teller. They 
are great showmans as far as working with the crowd. 

Are any of you aware of any Penn and Teller videos out there, and where I 
might be able to get ahold of one?

BTW, I send Santa a note yesterday requesting their new book "How to play 
with your food". They were on Good Morning America yesterday, and showed a 
recipe "virus".. it was a recipe you can xerox that has no mention of penn 
and teller anywhere - for some kind of cookies. You can give it to your 
friends along with another recipe. But when they get part way mixing through 
the recipe, it makes a mess all over your counter... fizzes over or 
something.
Wes

-----------------------------------------------------------
Wes Voss
Novell, Inc

Internet: wvoss@novell.com
Fax: 801-342-1211

Disclaimer: These are just my opinions, and no one else's;
            No one in their right mind would share them...
___________________________________________________________
Newsgroups: alt.magic
From: stame@emunix.emich.edu (Stewart Tame)
Subject: Re: Call for votes: To reveal or not to reveal.
Organization: Eastern Michigan University
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 15:16:07 GMT

>If you read this group (magician or not), if you even *LURK* on this group,
>or if you are just passing through, PLEASE respond to this post and let
>everyone here know that you exist.  I would like to determine the scope
>of the readers on this group for a potential FAQ.
>
>PART OF THE WORLD YOU LIVE IN:___Ypsilanti, Michigan
>
>MAGICIAN or LAYPERSON:____Magician, hobbyist
>
>If Magician:  TYPE OF MAGIC:____Mostly closeup and platform
>              AGE:___25
>              YEARS OF EXPERIENCE:___20 or so
>
>If Layperson: AGE:_____________
>              WHY DO YOU READ THIS GROUP:_______________________
>
>DO YOU BELIEVE THAT IT IS DETRIMENTAL TO THE ART OF MAGIC TO POST
>"INSIDER" INFORMATION PERTAINING TO THE METHODS USED TO ACHIEVE
>A MAGICAL EFFECT:___Undecided
>
>WHY/WHY NOT:___People usually don't appreciate what's handed to them on
		a silver platter.  Many of the magic effects that I know
		the secret to I've figured out on my own and I think that
		this allows me to appreciate them much more than I would
		had I been simply *told* the secret.  At the same time,
		I know how curiousity burns in the human heart.  If anyone
		asks me how I did something, I usually reply, "Very well,
		I thought," or something similarly evasive.  If they
		persist, I use my own judgement.  Most times I merely
		give them a hint or suggest a book they should seek
		out to set them in the right direction.  But if the
		secret is small or they state their case well, I will
		tell them, stressing the importance of showmanship as
		well as knowing how the trick works.  As to this
		newsgroup, since we can't know each individual case,
		I suppose a blanket ban on secrets is best, though
		I personally don't support such an attitude.  Gee,
		that all ran on much longer than I intended . . . 
>
>ADDITIONAL COMMENTS:____I mostly perform just for the amusement of my
			 friends.

		-- Stewart Tame

****************************************************************************
 I understand it's obligatory to mention Kibo somewhere in one's postings.
****************************************************************************
		Email:  stame@emunix.emich.edu
****************************************************************************
Disclaimer:  Not only do my opinions represent those of Eastern Michigan
University, but also those of Dan Quayle, Richard Nixon, Frank Zappa,
Pee-wee Herman, Bart Simpson, Tipper Gore, Murphy Brown, Maggie Thatcher,
and the Easter Bunny.
From: ron@eatdust.uswest.com (Ron Schweikert)
Subject: I learned about magic from that
Originator: ron@eatdust
Organization: U S WEST Communications -- Information Technologies
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 16:58:40 GMT

Greetings.

Those of you who subscribe to "Flying" magazine will understand the subject
line.  For those of you who don't, allow me to explain.

There is a column in the monthly magazine that is dedicated to stories from
pilots who learned more about flying from a particular experience
(things like water in the gas tank, flying into bad weather etc.).  The
purpose is to "expose" a decision or set of circumstances (usually under
the pilot's control) that caused a serious set of circumstances.  The intent
is to allow others to learn from the experience.

Well I thought a thread like that might be interesting here.  My primary
purpose is to solicit ideas (for entertainment as well as learning
purposes) on how to handle snafus in performances.

Last night I was doing an impromptu set of illusions for a friend to 
possibly be used in an upcoming event, when two things happened.  In
one of the tricks...wait...this is bordering on transgressing secrets.

Let me suffice it to say that something embarassing occured that distracted
from the performance, and perhaps would completely blow it.  I think I
recovered fair by making a quick excuse and then moving forward, but...

Would anyone be willing to share some embarassing moments in performances,
and how they handled it?  If the handling of it reveals a secret of the
illusion, we could move some responses to the mailing list.

I started to share my experience here, but realized I couldn't say much
without revealing more than should be revealed in this newsgroup.  Suffice
it to say that I learned to pay more attention to an area that I'd never
had trouble with before (I dropped part of the newspaper while doing
Anderson's torn and restored newspaper).  That was the FIRST TIME I'd ever
done that!  I learned that while trying to appear casual, as you're
preparing for "crux" moves in the illusion, DON'T NEGLECT OTHER MOVES!
Sheesh!  I had him helping me with a rope trick and I inadvertently let go 
of the rope when he tugged on it (while tying a knot) at a time I wasn't
expecting him to! I NEVER DID THAT BEFORE EITHER!

How many others blew it in "first performance" jitters, or complacency with
a well-known trick, or just bad luck!?

Anyway, I feel more confident now.  I made some bad mistakes in front of 
a friend that I'll be more aware of in front of an audience.

Moral: try out tricks on friends and family.  Build confidence in the trick
while performing in front of them.  If you blow it, they'll be gracious and
not ruin your rep (of course, you'll still get razzed!).

Ron
From: pbernard@linus.umd.edu (Peter S. Bernard)
Newsgroups: alt.magic
Subject: forgot the routine
Keywords: same
Date: 6 Nov 92 17:10:59 GMT
Distribution: usa



Suppose that one can make two cards:
    one has three of diamond on one side and queen of hearts on
    the other side
    the second card has design, normally found on bicycle decks
    on BOTH sides.
Now, just suppose one can make these two cards which look quite
normal from either sides.
What routine can one conjecture up for this set of cards?

Is this outside the groups' guide lines?

Thanks in advance and will thank after some helpfull suggestions.

-RR