From: agscrib@afterlife.ncsc.mil (Arthur Scribner)
Newsgroups: soc.history
Subject: Greek Philosophy is a Joke (was Re: Macedonia ...)
Date: 27 Jan 93 04:23:33 GMT
Organization: The Great Beyond

Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history
Subject: Re: On Macedonia (was Re: Greece reacts sharply to remarks by  Danish foreign minister)
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In article <1993Jan26.032150.29889@wuecl.wustl.edu> jdd1@cec2.wustl.edu (James Dimos Dimarogonas) writes:
>In article <1993Jan25.213806.14723@informix.com> rika@informix.com (Rika Tsitsinia) writes:
>>In article <1993Jan25.020206.19971@afterlife.ncsc.mil> agscrib@afterlife.ncsc.mil (Arthur Scribner) writes:
>>>In article <C1D8Hs.GHJ@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> J.Theodore.Schuerzinger@dartmouth.edu (J. Theodore Schuerzinger) writes:
>>>>
>>>That's not the first thing the Greeks tried to claim that was not theirs. I am
>>>referring to the fact that there is no such thing as Greek Philosophy. The 
>>>Greeks stole it from the Ancient Egyptians.
>>>
>>>Arthur
>>>
>>
>A very heavy remark!!  Not even Bernard himself dared to say that in his
>book "black athena", even though he did try to prove that ancient greeks
>were black and descendants of the egyptians!  I would like you to provide
>me a reference though, stating the existense of organized egyptian philosophy.
>Most books I have read on the subject dont mention that.        
>
Of course you won't read that in the "accepted" literature. The Ancient
Africans contribution to civilization has been written out of the history
books. If you would like references I have plenty. You should start out with
"Stolen Legacy" by George G. M. James published by Julian Richardson Assoc.
It was originally published by Philosophical Library. This book explains
the chronolgy of the so-called Greek philosophers and the discrepencies
that arise when they (the Greek philosophers) are examined. The inconsistencies
the "evolution" of Greek philosophy abound. If you like I can go into
greater detail at a later time. Another book "Africa: Mother of Western
Civilzation" by Dr. Yosef Ben Jochannon, fully explains the intricately
organized system of Egyptian philosophy, Science, Mathematics, Astronomy etc.
These diciplines were formally integrated into what was known as the
Egyptian Mysteries. They even included the foundations of what was to become
the major Western religions i.e Judaism, Christianity and Islam. Nevertheless,
both books provide tons of well documented references to my orginal premise.
Other books that would add to this are "Anacalypsis Vol I & II" by
Sir Godfrey Higgins, "Ancient Egypt: Light of the World" and "Book of the
Beginnings" both by Gerald Massey. As for "Black Athena" Bernal, not Bernard,
did not provide the in-depth analysis for the real African root of Western
civilization. 
>It is true that greeks borrowed many things from civilizations surrrounding
>them (how much we will never learn),  but they made two fundamental
>contributions: the first one was the steel plow that allowed them to have
>an increased production of wheat (contrary to popular beleives, philosophers
>do need material sustainance to "philosophise) and the second was the
>fundamental thesis that the world is explainable whithout need of the
>supernatural as an ingredient.  So even if there was an influence, it
>was that exact influence that Greek philosophy tried to overcome.
>BTW the pythegorean theorem is not called as such because Pythagoras
>invented it.  Actually it came from the Babylonians (who were much
>more advanced than the Egyptians).  It is called "Pythagorean"  because
>he was able to give a mathematical proof.  The key word in Greek
>philosophy is proof, something that neither the Egyptians , nor the
>Babylonians had yet invented .  

You are wrong again my friend. First of all the Greeks were taught by the
Egyptians the science of agriculture. When the Egyptians first contacted the
Greeks, they were known as the Pyrhennians, a tribal people living on the
coasts of the Aegean Sea, from Thessaly around through Macedonia and Thrace
and down the other side into Ionia. It was in Ionia that the Egyptians
first set up a colony to help to educate these people of the Aegean. Also,
I really don't think the steel plow was around back then being that steel is
a relatively recent accomplishment. In addition, according to the historians
Herodotus and Pliny, Pythagoras, a native of Samos, frequently travelled to
Egypt for the purpose of education. To do this, he needed consent of the
Egyptian Priests to be accepted into the schools of Egypt. He was not initially
accepted, but after he carried a letter from Polycrates, King of Samos, to 
King Amasis, Pharoah of Egypt, the Pharoah gave him letters of introduction
to the Priests of Memphis and Thebes which in turn permitted him to be
initiated into the schools. The Egyptians had already formalized the Theorems
and Proofs of their Mathematics, especially Geometry. So how could Pythagorus
give mathematical proof to something he had no prior knowledge of let alone
while he was "learning". This information can be found in "The Histories" by
Herodotus. Let me also add that history supports the fact that from the time
of the first of the pre-Socratic "philosophers" Thales, to the plagarist
Aristotle, (circa 640  - 322 B.C.) the Greeks were victims of internal
disunion, on the one hand, while on the other, they lived in constant fear of
invasions form the Persians who were a common enemy to the city states.
>
>If you want more information I would refer you to a direct ancient
>Egyptian source (I would have to back you though for that), a collection
>of papyrs that have about 100 (if my memory serves me) solved problems.
>There you can see how primitive egyptian logic is, especially in the
>area of mathematics.  Dover publications has a book on the subject
>called something like history of elementary mathematics which has
>an excelent overview of Egyptian and Babylonian mathematics, as well as
>Greek.  There also is a book by the German physisist and Nobel
>laureate Schroedinger (sp?) on the subject of ancient Greek natural
>philosophy.  If you are interested send a personal e-mail and I will
>look for the complete references.
>
>Cheers,
>
>James Dimarogonas 

First of all, I can name books that have printed lies about the African
contributions to Western civilization. I mean the typical world history
class centers around the history of Europe and its' beginnings with Greece
and Rome. They touch on Egypt and Mesopotamia but that's all. And speaking
of formalized logic, how are you able to deduce the fact that Pythagoras
derived the "proof" of a system when there was no prior existence of these
concepts to him in Greece or Samos. Where else did he receive this "formal"
training in principles of Mathematics and Physics. I suggest you research
his life and background a little more before you make these claims.
One more thing I would like to ask. If the Greek society was such a wholesome
environment for Philosophy, then why is it that their "sons" of thought and
ideology, namely the famous Greek "Philosophers" were the victims of
relentless persecution for the teaching of "alien and foreign beliefs".
For example; Anaxagoras was imprisoned and exiled; Socrates was executed;
Plato was sold into slavery and Aristotle was indicted and exiled. Even
Pythagoras fled his native Samos and was later expelled from Croton in Italy.
Also, isn't it rather coincidental that Aristotle did not begin his writings
until after Alexander the Great ransacked the libraries of and Temples of
Alexandria (332 B.C.) and the fact that he died in 322 B.C. makes it hard to
believe that he authored the close 800 or so books papers etc.. that is
attributed to him.

Any Comments?

Arthur 

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