From: sykopath@leland.Stanford.EDU (Mickey)
Subject: Re: Serious response to stupid post. (was Re: SPERM backrub)
Keywords: sperm, backrub, empathy
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 92 07:03:18 GMT

In article <s900881.719028509@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU> s900881@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au (Nigel Patrick Cunningham) writes:
>sykopath@leland.Stanford.EDU (Mickey) writes:
>
>[ lots deleted, as only responding to last bit ]
>
>>To me, empathy is the central aspect of massage.  A massage which was
>>not responsive to the recipient's reactions would be likely to do
>>much more harm than good, IMHO.  No matter how good your technical
>>skills are, if you apply them blindly and without regard to the
>>state of the person they're being applied to, you're going to end
>>up hurting them (if nothing else, people are put together in incredibly
>>unique and different ways...what works wonderfully for one person will
>>do nothing to another, and be positively painful for a third...)
>
>I feel 'empathy' is not the right word here, caring and warmth may be
>involved but empathy not necessarily.  Personally most of the massages

Um...I think you're reading "empathy" in the typical sense of "sharing 
another person's feelings".  I was unclear, above...
...I meant "empathy" in the sense of "flexible responsiveness to whatever
signals the other person is putting out...especially, in this context,
physical ones...but also emotional 'vibes' about what they're comfortable
with."

It is this "responsiveness" (which I imprecisely called "empathy", because
the internal state of receptiveness is the same for me whether I'm using
it to adjust myself to another person physically or mentally) which is
to me the central aspect of a backrub.

>footrubs if she looked particularly harassed, without being asked ).

Bravo!!!  Let's hear it for footrubs!  *grin*

>During the back rub we often talked, thus I lent a generally sympathetic
>ear, but I would hardly class it as being empathetic. I have big hands

Ooops...yep, that was the misunderstanding.  Sorry 'bout that.

>which are reasonably strong and normally warm to the touch, but little 
>*skill* (i.e no formal training) and yet I have sent highly strung young
>ladies (only 2 but that's pural) to sleep in a very short time, (which 
>is about as relaxed as you can get).

Bingo.  My point was that it's not the "skill", not the techniques,
that make the difference...it's "having your heart in the right place",
to coin a phrase...:)

It's a good sign that they fell asleep...shows, IMHE, that they really
trusted you.  Is good.

Congrats...:)
...and keep up the good backrubbing.

>My point is that the close personal contact, rather than the massage
>content in a back rub, is part of the relaxing component; which might 
>be the point your trying to make also?

It's another point, one I should have made but neglected to...:)

I've found that the main relaxation that comes from a backrub can be
equally well induced simply by running your hands over the relevant
area, without even rubbing...i.e. that it is human contact, not
physical muscle massage, that produces the "systemic" or holistic
relaxation of massage.  People in America (the only ones I really
have experience with) are chronically touch-deprived, and any contact
at all can have a remarkable relaxing effect on them.  

And also, the psychological affirmation of someone taking the time and effort
to be touching them will really relax many people.

>As for people being different, that goes without saying, but they're not
>all that different in many aspects,with exceptions of course.

true...which is why practice helps.  However, if you're not responsive to 
the differences, they can ruin an otherwise perfectly good backrub...
(I know people who have some muscles attached strangely, and would probably
feel actual pain if I gave them a massage just like I'd give a more
mainstream person...)

>PS How's Stanford this time of year ? And where in the U.S. is it?

Stanford is *lovely*!!!  Cool, misty dawns...warm, sunny days, with cool
breezes...cool, clear evenings...moonlit nights with the light on the hills...

Mmmmmmm...:)

And it's on the West coast, in California, near San Francisco.

:)

Come visit?

*grin*

*hugs*,

Mickey "where the winds are gentle and the waters flow..." Phoenix.
Newsgroups: alt.backrubs