HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: lazarus@ocf.berkeley.edu (Andrew J. Lazarus)
Newsgroups: tx.politics,alt.politics.clinton
Subject: Re: Clinton Policies (was: Re: Legalized Theft)
Date: 29 Sep 1992 17:12:56 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
NNTP-Posting-Host: avalanche.berkeley.edu

In article <21633@rpp386.lonestar.org> jfh@rpp386.cactus.org (John F. Haugh II) writes:

>I will not repost every piece of news I ever wrote every six months so
>some guy who is out to prove that everything I write is a lie "including
>``and'' and ``the''".  I believe that is the exact quote from Lillian
                                                          ^^^^
>Helman you used.

It was a statement from Mary McCarthy *about* Lillian Hellman. You ought
to give up speed reading, John. You miss things.

>Now, run along and go find yourself a job before I turn you in to the
>unemployment people out there in California.  Shouldn't you be looking
>for work or something?

Found some part-time work. UC needed a substitute for someone who threw
her back out. Not only am I taking over, I gave her an old family
remedy: vigorous jumping jacks.

Should keep me off the dole for weeks.

Say, John, who is it who is vindictive? Just because in our first
exchange I showed you couldn't tell the difference between a per capita
and per dollar statistic? You should be grateful: I charge $20 an hour
for stat tutoring. You got it free.

andy
From: curt@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com (Curt Finch/131072)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: FAMILY VIOLENCE:  CALIF. STRENGTHENS STATE LAWS
Date: 29 Sep 92 02:00:42 GMT
Reply-To: curt@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com (Curt Finch/131072)
Distribution: tx
Organization: IBM AWD, Austin, TX


                =====  CHILDREN IN CRISIS  =====

*6   FAMILY VIOLENCE:  CALIF. STRENGTHENS STATE LAWS
     Gov. Pete Wilson (R) of Calif. yesterday signed into law
four measures strengthening state laws against domestic violence
(Hull, S.F. EXAMINER).  Wilson:  "By closing legal loopholes and
improving enforcement, these bills provide important new
protections for victims of domestic violence."
     One measure signed by Wilson encourages courts to issue
restraining orders against parents who are potential threats
during child custody and visitation rights cases.  The measure
also changes the legal term "domestic violence" to "family
violence" to expand legal protections to people who are not
related but live in the same household, according to the
EXAMINER.
     Another of the bills allows judges to require the presence
in court of individuals charged with a misdemeanor family
violence crime.  Formerly, a person only had to be represented by
a lawyer (9/29).


--
curt@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com (Curt L. Finch) | AIX NFS/NIS Field Quality 
My views are unrelated to those of IBM     |       Austin, TX
            Fire public school administrators.  Hire more teachers.
From: moller@austin.ibm.com (Chris Moller)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: taxes
Date: 28 Sep 92 15:59:23 GMT
Reply-To: moller@austin.ibm.com
Distribution: tx
Organization: As little as I can get away with.

In article <1992Sep21.154450.17147@awdprime.austin.ibm.com>, curt@ekhadafi.austin.ibm.com (Curt Finch 903 2F021 curt@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com 512-838-2806) writes:

[...]

|>> --
|>> curt@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com (Curt L. Finch) | AIX NFS/NIS Field Quality 
|>> My views are unrelated to those of IBM     |        Austin, TX
|>>  - Begin means testing of Social Security, Medicaire and Farm Subsidies now. -

_Abolish_ Social Security, Medicare and Farm Subsidies now.

-- 
IBM pays absolutely no attention to my	|   "Politicians are the same the 
opinions, ergo the foregoing cannot	|   world over:  they promise to 
possibly represent its position.	|   build a bridge even when there
					|   is no river."
Christian H. L. Moller			|     -- Nikita Khrushchev
From: davidc@montagar.com (David L. Cathey)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: The blame game
Date: 5 Oct 92 09:35:26 GMT
Distribution: usa,tx
Organization: Montagar Software Concepts, Plano TX

In article <7464@lib.tmc.edu>, jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard) writes:
> In article <1992Sep28.195434.27106@technology.com> judy@technology.com (Judy McMillin) writes:
>>	I think you're missing the point, Jay.  These people don't
>>	have to come here to do the kind of work being discussed.
>>	They can do it from many places throughout the world and
>>	never set foot in Texas.
> 
> People that make this comment don't understand the nature of the job. Systems
> programmers need to be next to the machine.

	Need to be next to *A* machine, which could easily be oversees.  I do
lots of systems programming from home on my VAX, and deliver working product
to my clients running much larger hardware.  If we can't compete, we can't win.

> If my job _could_ be sent overseas cheaper and just as effectively, I'd have
> to live with that.

	You might have to.  You should be aware of lights-out operations and
that most companies are buying software off-the-shelf.  With all the automated
management going into systems, a system manager is little more than an
operator.  Buying supported off-the-shelf software is cheaper than hiring a
full time systems programmer.

> -- 
> Jay Maynard, EMT-P, K5ZC, PP-ASEL | Never ascribe to malice that which can
> jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu      | adequately be explained by stupidity.
>     Vote for a REAL change on 3 November: Throw out the check-bouncing,
>   tax-and-spend Democrat Congress! (obviously, not an opinion of UTHSCH)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
David L. Cathey		                |INET: davidc@montagar.com
Montagar Software Concepts              |UUCP: ...!montagar!davidc
P. O. Box 260772, Plano TX  75026-0772  |Fone: (214)-618-2117
From: jfh@rpp386.lonestar.org (John F. Haugh II)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: BullShit
Date: 1 Oct 92 00:14:49 GMT
Reply-To: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org (John F. Haugh II)
Distribution: tx
Organization: River Parishes Programming, Austin, Republic of Texas

In article <1992Sep30.151909.26624@oakhill.sps.mot.com> jcj6@ace3.sps.mot.com (james berry) writes:
>Your analysis is Bullshit and you know it.  I will not waste any more time 
>on such ignorance.  The fact that Washingtons policies helped at most 20%
>of the population is a fact that you can deny all you want to but will not
>change.  

My analysis is not bullshit.

Look, it's really very simple.  If the lower class got smaller (and it
did, by about 10% - from 20% of the total population to 18%) and the upper
class got larger (and it did, by about 30% - from ~20% to ~26%) [ where
"lower" is <$15K and "upper" is >$50K ], the policies HAD TO help more
than 20% of the population.  Unless you take the 2% that move up from the
buttom and 6% that moved into the top, add them together and come up with
8%.  But it doesn't work that way and you know it.

>And by the way I have seen how much Money you claim to make a year,  I would 
>not brag about it.  Your not only talking to students you know.  

I don't believe that anyone on the net has the slightest clue how much I
actually make.  Some people may have been mislead to believe they know, but
the truth is that my income is a well guarded secret.  I can safely tell you
that it is between $40K and $250K.  If it is convenient, I'll tell you that
I make $60K per year.  On the other hand, it might be convenient to tell you
that I make $160K per year.  I might even tell you that my gross income for
last year was $97,365.  But it wasn't, unless you believe the people I told
that.

It is interesting that you feel the need to bring my (supposed) income into
this discussion since it has nothing to do with subject at hand.  Is there
anything else that isn't you business that you'd like for me to lie to you
about?

>All of that said I wish you well, but simply refuse to waste any more of my
>time on your drivel.

Ah, drivel.  It's drivel when you can't refute it.  I'll file that away
under "Things to File Away."
-- 
John F. Haugh II           [  TSAKC  ]       UUCP: ...!cs.utexas.edu!rpp386!jfh
Ma Bell: (512) 251-2151    [ DoF #17 ]            Domain: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org
Xref: sparky tx.politics:5711 alt.politics.clinton:7490
From: exuptr@exu.ericsson.se (Patrick Taylor)
Newsgroups: tx.politics,alt.politics.clinton
Subject: Re: Should Texans finance roads in Boston?
Date: 28 Sep 92 16:30:21 GMT
Organization: Ericsson Network Systems, Inc.
X-Disclaimer: This article was posted by a user at Ericsson in North America.
              The opinions expressed are strictly those of the user and
              not necessarily those of Ericsson.

In article <1992Sep28.143224.25103@mksol.dseg.ti.com> mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539) writes:

>...I believe that until recently Texas
>has been a net BENEFICIARY of the Federal Highway funding (because the
>place is just so damned BIG compared to the population density).  Now
>that it looks like that could change, we hear a great outcry about how
>people here don't want to pay for 'other people's roads'.  What's even
>sillier is that we see the Feds promising that each state will get
>back at least the amount of money that it puts in.  This leads me to
>ask why, if they don't intend to move the money around as has been the
>case in the past, the Feds should even be in the middle of this.
>Seems that if everyone is going to wind up with the amount of money
>their state collects, why not just let the states collect it and cut
>out the middleman.

>[Note that I deliberately make no comment on whether each state
>getting out the amount it puts in is a good thing or not.]

Fred has a good point here.

All we'll end up doing is paying them some federal taxes to do the paperwork 
of sifting all that money around and sending it right back to us.

Kinda like the old military routine where you dig a hole, carry the dirt 
halfway across camp, carry it back again, and fill up the hole.

Personally I believe in the pay/use philosophy, which means I would tend to 
resist the idea of sending funds that would go to paving other states' 
highways.  But of course when our economy dragged during the post-gulf war 
period, the FEDs picked up the tab for a lot of failing businesses.  It is
hard to say what is right in a case like this, but I would tend to think we 
should not be involved in Boston unless it is a serious hardship for them.

 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "This must be Thursday.  I never could get the hang of Thursdays"
                                                       - Douglas Adams
  - Patrick Taylor                                       (Arthur Dent)
    Ericsson Network Systems
    exuptr@exu.ericsson.se                       "Don't let the .se fool you"
    or exuptr@ZGNews.Lonestar.Org, exu.exuptr@memo.ericsson.se
From: jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: The blame game
Date: 26 Sep 1992 14:48:37 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: UT Health Science Center Houston

In article <1992Sep25.131343.18327@technology.com> richard@technology.com (Richard Murphy) writes:
[about importing Chinese or Russian programmers at bargain basement prices]
>I program machines in Europe from San Antonio....works the other way, too.
>No muss, no fuss, no immigration hassles.

Not when a significant part of the job involves getting next to the system
console, it doesn't. MVS systems programming isn't like Unix systems
programming; it can't reasonably be done over a network.

>Sure, newspaper and railroad unions are well known in their job padding
>practices. However, software people are not unionized and VERY overpaid compared
>to the world market....let me see, where did I put that brochure..?

...and if you think you can get an experienced MVS type from overseas, and get
him to the US, and through immigration (including convincing the INS that
there isn't someone local you can hire to fill the job acceptably), and
settled, for what I'm getting paid, then have at it.
-- 
Jay Maynard, EMT-P, K5ZC, PP-ASEL | Never ascribe to malice that which can
jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu      | adequately be explained by stupidity.
    Vote for a REAL change on 3 November: Throw out the check-bouncing,
  tax-and-spend Democrat Congress! (obviously, not an opinion of UTHSCH)
From: exuptr@exu.ericsson.se (Patrick Taylor)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: KILL THE RICH!
Date: 25 Sep 92 20:44:08 GMT
Organization: Ericsson Network Systems, Inc.
X-Disclaimer: This article was posted by a user at Ericsson in North America.
              The opinions expressed are strictly those of the user and
              not necessarily those of Ericsson.

In article <7386@lib.tmc.edu> jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard) writes:
>In article <1992Sep20.181628.13611@mksol.dseg.ti.com> mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539) writes:
>[about the cutoff needing to be at $50K vs. the Clinton faction's claims of
>$200K if results are wanted]
>>In other words, it's there because you say it's there, whatever
>>Clinton may say?  And then you blame him for what YOU say?  Uh, that's
>>a bit of a stretch, don't you think?

>OK...let's look at it another way: What happens if Clinton's plan is really to
>tax the hell out of anything over $200K, and he gets it from a compliant
>Congress, and it doesn't do the job (as it won't - there's just not enough
>money there)? Then what?  

>What I (and a bunch of others, apparently) think is that he'll say, "OK, that
>wasn't enough, so let's get some more rich people. $50K." At that point, he
>gets me, too, and I'm just a single computer professional.

What's wrong with that? $50k is quite a bit for a single man ;-)

 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "This must be Thursday.  I never could get the hang of Thursdays"
                                                       - Douglas Adams
  - Patrick Taylor                                       (Arthur Dent)
    Ericsson Network Systems
    exuptr@exu.ericsson.se                       "Don't let the .se fool you"
    or exuptr@ZGNews.Lonestar.Org, exu.exuptr@memo.ericsson.se
Newsgroups: tx.politics
From: jcj6@ace3.sps.mot.com (james berry)
Subject: taxes
Organization: APRDL, Motorola Inc., Austin Texas
Distribution: tx
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 18:57:44 GMT

>>Care to quote sources for this crap?

>Census Bureau.  The numbers were posted here about 3 weeks back for
>1977, 1981 and 1989, as I recall.  The bottom like was that the <$15K
>group grow to about 20% during Carter and shrunk to about 18% during
>Reagan.  The middle class got smaller (as I recall) with a very small
>increase in upper class (about .1% or so).  The $15K to $50K group
>shrunk under Carter.  The >$50K group grow slightly (previous remark)
>under Carter, but grew dramatically under Reagan, taking some of the
>middle bracket with it.

Being posted in this news group hardly constitutes a reliable source.
But of course your correct that percentages don't give you overall
numbers.  This is true if the overall workforce numbers were to change
dramatically.  Even if true though it changes nothing.  The bottom
80% of the American public has suffered under the Washington tax changes
of the last 15years.  You can hardly call any Economic policy successfull
when only 20% of the population has benifited.  And in fact you need to
reach the top 5% before you see any real increase in earnings.  Recall the
top 1% +115%, the next 4% +23%, the next 5% +11%, and the next 10% +9%.
Now you are down to a little below your 50K number.  This is a fundamental
difference in our beliefs if you indeed feel that helping only the top 20% 
of the population translates to a successful program.  So fundamental in
fact there is no longer a need for us to discuss it.  It is obvious you
will not change your mind and I am equally convinced that I am correct.  

>If Bill Clinton is elected, we will see a depression the likes of which
>this country has not seen since Herbert Hoover.  Bill Clinton literally
>scares the shit out of me.  As the election has drawn closer, and the

   A good bit of drivel deleated for space reasons, all of which was
   based on PERSONAL opinions.


>As for Bernard Shaw, I have zero respective for his abilities to analyze
>anything.

Nor do I, about as much as I do yours:-) and obviously the feeling is
mutual!!  He simply hosted the show.  I don't recall the names of the 
guests.  But the numbers used were from the same source that I have 
quoted.

>John F. Haugh II           [  TSAKC  ]       UUCP: ...!cs.utexas.edu!rpp386!jfh


James L. Berry  jcj6@giedi.sps.not.com                 
"Sex education in our schools is promoting incest" 
		      The Rev? Jimmy Swaggart
Newsgroups: tx.politics,rice.politics
From: rocky@NeoSoft.com (Joe Mullally)
Subject: Re: Sex Education <fairly long, but good!>
Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900
Distribution: tx
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 14:01:31 GMT
Keywords: exuptr@exu.ericsson.se wrr3118@tamsun.tamu.edu

In article <BvAzCp.H89@rice.edu> gamble@owlnet.rice.edu (Ben Gamble) writes:
>So, I apologize for certain characterizations
>that were deliberately exaggerated for rhetorical effect.  Now, to the
>business at hand.

	Well done.

>No, I think you read me correctly and just disagree.  Yes, I think
>every choice affects your life, to a greater or lesser degree, and
>further, that subtle changes usually go deeper than we appreciate.
>Fanciful scenario:

	(Sorry 'bout the deletion). It might be more accurate, in 
light of the red/black pen story, to conclude that every decision
is _potentially_ life-changing. Including the decision to have 
sex.

>I maintain that every decision, small or large, has at least the
>potential for something like this.  _That's_ what I meant.

	Oops. You covered it.



-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joe Mullally (rocky@sugar.neosoft.com) PH:713-681-2495
"They say 'David, what shall I do? They wait for me in the hallway'.
I say 'Don't ask me- I don't know any hallways."- David Bowie, "Scary Monsters"
From: jfh@rpp386.lonestar.org (John F. Haugh II)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: Prove it!
Date: 29 Sep 92 12:28:53 GMT
Reply-To: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org (John F. Haugh II)
Organization: River Parishes Programming, Austin, Republic of Texas

In article <1992Sep28.212621.26756@NeoSoft.com> rocky@NeoSoft.com (Joe Mullally) writes:
>	Furthermore, why not let John's style work against him, as it should?

You mean, my style of documenting what I post?  Or my style of not having
any tolerance for idiots?  I'm not sure which style you are referring to
and why that style will, or should, work against me ...
-- 
John F. Haugh II           [  TSAKC  ]       UUCP: ...!cs.utexas.edu!rpp386!jfh
Ma Bell: (512) 251-2151    [ DoF #17 ]            Domain: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org
From: jreese@NeoSoft.com (Jim Reese)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: The blame game
Date: 26 Sep 92 12:47:09 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900

In article <1992Sep25.153730.39148@watson.ibm.com> johniac@austin.ibm.com (John Iacoletti) writes:

>If people accept wages commensurate with what their labor is worth,
>then their jobs will not go to Mexico, and they will not be on the
>welfare rolls.

Unfortunately, that won't buy much food or a place to live in the over-inflated
market here in the US.  True, eventually the market prices would even out, 
but in the meantime, those people would starve.  Remember, it's much cheaper 
to LIVE in Mexico, too.

>What the companies should have done was not cave in to the unions. 
>There's enough people out there looking for work.  If you union
>people don't want to work then don't let the door hit your butts on
>the way out.

Couldn't agree more.



-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
     Jim Reese, WD5IYT            | "I left this job the same way I came
  jreese@sugar.neosoft.com        |     in...fired with enthusiasm"  
Newsgroups: tx.politics,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.bush
From: kossack@owlnet.rice.edu (Jordan Marc Kossack)
Subject: Re: Clinton Policies
Followup-To: alt.politics.clinton
Reply-To: kossack@qvi.com
Organization: NOT!  
Distribution: tx
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 01:07:45 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.203245.18119@mksol.dseg.ti.com> mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539) writes:
- Not allowing deficit spending for any reasn is a bad idea.  No
- government spending except to service current debt is a bad idea.  A
- poll tax as the only tax is a bad idea.
 
	Proof by vehement assertion.  How quaint.  

- >Step 1. Flatten the income tax to 15% of earnings above $10000.
- 
- This is a good idea.  It is also where this should probably stop,
- since most of the rest of this is bad ideas, IMHO.  It will require,
- however, some *HUGE* cuts in spending.  What gets killed?

	Everything but paying off the debt.  
 
- >Step 3. Require referenda for changes in taxes or increase in 
- >        government debt.
- 
- This one I think is probably a good idea.  However, I'm not convinced
- that it's a WORKABLE idea.

	If the Federales can't figure out how to implement it, I guess  
   they just won't be able to get an OK on their pork barrel projects 
   and those projects won't get funded.  Fossilized feces.  


- Why not just say that we're not going to support a central government
- and secede?  You've created the same net effect.  Of course, since the

	It's been tried.  The Federales murdered them.  

- -- 
- "Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live
-  in the real world."   -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden

   So true ... and it's something our elected reprehensibles need to learn.  

-- 
 Jordan M Kossack  |  Why change Bush in the middle of a screw?     
  kossack@qvi.com  |  Re-elect George in '92!    
  +1 713 240 2073  |
From: davidc@montagar.com (David L. Cathey)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: BullShit
Date: 6 Oct 92 10:16:49 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: Montagar Software Concepts, Plano TX

In article <21671@rpp386.lonestar.org>, jfh@rpp386.lonestar.org (John F. Haugh II) writes:
> In article <1992Oct3.042322.25896@mksol.dseg.ti.com> mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539) writes:
>>So, what John Haugh II is telling us is that he will lie whenever it
>>is convenient to do so?
> 
> No, I plainly said that if it isn't your business, I will give you whatever
> answer you want.  My income is none of your business.  My sexual orientation
> is none of your business.  My religious affiliation is none of your
> business.  If I should turn out to secretly be a gay atheist billionare
> (aren't we all?) it STILL is none of your business.

	Well, you did say that, but you also did say that you woud lie if
it was convenient.  I guess we aren't sure when you believe it to be
convenient, and if you told us, could that be another convenient lie?  No John,
you have told us that you will lie.  If it is none of our business, fine.  Tell
us that, but no, you admitted that you will lie.

> Now, since you are completely unable to read, I'll point out that I have on
> no occassion ever posted my salary.  My comment was directed specifically at
> James Berry who claimed to have some inside information.  I was quite simply
> pointing out that his inside information is probably wrong, and intentionally
> so.  After all, it was none of his business.  Given the nature of gossips,
> would anyone be stupid enough to give out information they didn't want spread
> about the net?

	True, I wouldn't.  But I wouldn't lie about it, just not bring it up
or respond to it.

> -- 
> John F. Haugh II           [  TSAKC  ]       UUCP: ...!cs.utexas.edu!rpp386!jfh
> Ma Bell: (512) 251-2151    [ DoF #17 ]            Domain: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
David L. Cathey		                |INET: davidc@montagar.com
Montagar Software Concepts              |UUCP: ...!montagar!davidc
P. O. Box 260772, Plano TX  75026-0772  |Fone: (214)-618-2117
Xref: sparky tx.politics:5750 alt.politics.clinton:7792