From: cthorne@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Charles E Thorne)
Subject: Re: High costs of college education
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 19:20:01 GMT

In article <Bw0pw3.EBz@apollo.hp.com> nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes:
>In article <1992Oct12.162257.7829@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> cthorne@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Charles E Thorne) writes:
>>In article <EeqCZmG00WDJ04V1lE@andrew.cmu.edu> Thomas Omar Smith <ts2a+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>>>nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes:
>>>: >        We are asking you to participate in a nationwide peaceful
>>>: >demonstration against the high costs of college education.

>>>:   But note that this is nearly the same as demonstrating FOR more
>>>:   tax funding for higher education.

>>>This is sadly true, in that its how the politicians will view it.  The
>>>reason education costs have skyrocketed is because of the continual
>>>increase in Federal scholarship money.

>>I would vigorously deny that this is why college costs are rising.  In general,
>>education costs have been rising over the last 40 years because the people who
>>do the work have been getting more pay.  When I was a teaching assistant, we
>>received $1800 for 9 months and paid income taxes and fees on top of this.
>>Today, the average teaching assistant gets about $9,000 for 9 months, doesn't
>>pay income tax or fees.  Faculty and administrative costs have gone up at
>>least as much.

>  Can someone document changes in faculty pay with respect to inflation,
>  taxes, and the amount of work performed?   So afr all we've seen on
>  this topic is speculation and anecdotes (as the above).

Since faculty pay is all over a broad spectrum, I doubt that documenting
averages over a period of time would be of much value.  Present faculty
salaries are probably generally in the range of $20-120,000 per year, with
the level determined by what the person could obtain in a competitive
market (if you want a nobel Laureate e.g., you're going to have to outbid
all the other schools that do to--on the other hand, if you want a Ph. D.
in English or history who has no job offers, you'll be at the bottom of
the pay scale).

I would contend that costs at the Universities have increased more than
inflation, but the role Universities play and the way they perform that
has changed so much, that looking at the past is probably irrelevant.  One
of the big increases in cost has been staff support at various levels.  When
I was an undergraduate faculty typically taught four or five classes and graded
all of their own papers and exams.  Now (at least at a research school) they
probably teach one or two classes and have graduate students to proctor and
grade exams as well as to teach recitations.  Research now requires much more
in the way of equipment and support for that equipment.  The better graduate
students expect to be supported (at least at some level of subsistence) and so
a professor who doesn't have research support won't have any graduate students.

>>Any school increasing fees to get more federal money would probably find their
>>budgets end up even lower still.
>
>  Maybe so, but as on the health-care issue most of what gets posted here
>  is anecdote and speculation.

My entire academic career has been at public institutions, so my experience
is very much on a political level.  This year Ohio cut higher education
much more drastically than other state programs but put a cap on tuition
increases of 9% (which raised about 1/3 of the State cuts).

>  And I'm STILL waiting for advocates of increased funding to tell us
>  whee the money should come from -- i.e., what other programs should be
>  cut or whose taxes should be raised.

Another reason funding needs to increase is that a much higher percentage
of the employed population needs to learn skills that are taught at
Universities.  If the country is to survive in the next generation, it will
need to find those funds.

Just an example of things that have changed--lawyers are increasing greatly
in number (with top graduates starting at the $60-$70,000 range) and yet
traditionally lawyers only needed to serve an apprenticeship.  Now very few
if any states permit a lawyer to be admitted to the bar without a J.D. degree.
Doctors require even more training as we're looking at 4 years in college,
4 years in medical school, followed by 3-5 years in residency to achieve a
specialty (Ohio State's residency-internship is a minimum of 3 years and
a doctor can't practice in a hospital <and get patients admitted> without
a specialty).  Doctors, too, once were trained in an apprenticeship program.

Charlie