HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: webdw@mvutd.att.com (Bruce D Woods)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: SK  (Chinese version of AK47)
Date: 12 Dec 92 00:21:30 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <00964DA4.D5A2F400@Eagle.oscs.montana.edu> ieeug464@Eagle.oscs.montana.edu writes:
#
#     I am thinking of getting an SK something (sorry) it is the Chinese 
#version of the AK47 (11 shot clip, semi auto, 7.62 cal.) and would 
#appreciate any comments on this gun.  I can get one new for $110 and ammo 
#will cost about $2.50 - $3.00 per box (20 rounds I believe) if I order by 
#the case.
#
#Questions:
#    Is this really like the famed AK47?

No, the PRC Type 56 Carbine is a copy of the Soviet SKS which
was replaced as a battle rifle by the AK 47.

#
#    Am I getting a good deal?

$110 is about the going price for a NIB PRC "SKS"; the wholsale
price is about $90.

#
#    Can it be full auto converted?

Not easily - it was not intended to be a select fire weapon.

#
#    What are the chances of the value going up because of some change in 
#        assault rifle laws (would it be a good investment to get one and 
#        not shoot it)?
#

Rarity pushes prices up - the PRC "SKS" has been imported heavily
since the late 80's and there are zillions of them around.
From: jd@latcs1.lat.oz.au (John Dimogotsis)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: KGP-161?
Date: 12 Dec 92 00:20:48 GMT
Organization: Comp Sci, La Trobe Uni, Australia


	Anyone know what a KGP-161 is ? Thanks !
						jd.
From: whetten@enws286.EAS.ASU.EDU (Frank L. Whetten)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Match, Wheel, Flint Locks
Date: 15 Dec 92 00:55:53 GMT
Organization: Arizona State University

In article <1992Dec13.234101.25158@netcom.com> tssmith@netcom.com (Tim Smith) writes:
#In article <Bz6n7t.LJo@news.cso.uiuc.edu> irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Brent Irvine) writes:
##Does anyone know what the difference between these
##types of actions?

  [lots of info deleted] 

#A flintlock's lock has a small piece of flint, partially wrapped in
#leather and wedged into a hammer (or cock), and contained there with
#a clamp.  When the weapon is cocked, the cock is drawn back against a
#spring, and a steel striker is raised.  When the trigger is pulled,
#the cock falls, strikes the steel, and the resulting sparks fall into
#the pan, igniting the primer (you hope).
#--Tim (tssmith@netcom.com)

It never occurred to me before, but did the shooter close his eyes
when pulling the trigger on these types of weapons?  It would seem
like the combination of steel hitting flint and sparks falling in a
pan of gunpowder pretty close to your nose might be hazardous to your
sight.  (You definitely want to wear your shooting glasses :-)

Somehow the image of armies marching up to each other, and closing
their eyes (and averting their faces) to shoot strikes my funnybone.
From: julian%bongo.UUCP@nosc.mil (Julian Macassey)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Don't need silencers?
Date: 12 Dec 92 17:15:49 GMT
Organization: The Hole in the Wall  Hollywood California U.S.A.


#In article <92339.104516U16244@uicvm.uic.edu> U16244%uicvm.uic.edu@OHSTVMA.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU writes:
##[...]
##for civilian use?  After all, we don't need silencers, and on averave, these
#                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

	We don't need silencers? Besides the one fact the saftey Nazis
can't argue with - They help prevent hearing damage. There's a radical
thought. There are many scenarios for silencers:

	Plinking in the back yard without scaring the horses and
frightening the women.

	Shooting rats inside barns and similar buildings.

	Picking off vermin such as rabbits without scaring off the rest
of the warren for two hours.

	Shooting pigeons in the woods.

	Killing sick and dying farm animals without deafening the other
workers - also handy to do the above at night, without waking the kids.

	Somehow, we need silenced cars and motorbikes that don't 
cause hearing damage - Cars playing rap music excepted - but we must 
have guns that make dangerous amounts of noise. Am I missing 
something here? Yes, I can shoot with hearing protection, and drivers 
can drive with hearing protection too.

	So why don't we need silencers? If I had the choice, I would
always shoot with a silencer. 

	The army may not need silencers, if they want to make lots of
frightening noise, but civilians, if they care for their fellow man,
should consider them.

-- 
Julian Macassey, julian@bongo.info.com  N6ARE@WA6FWI.#SOCA.CA.USA.NA
742 1/2 North Hayworth Avenue Hollywood CA 90046-7142 voice (213) 653-4495
From: dpf@convex.csd.uwm.edu (Doug P Forbush)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Can a .22 Winchester Magnum fire .22LR?
Date: 17 Dec 92 12:19:07 GMT
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee

James Callison writes:
 >>...
 >As I recall from my short tenure with a Ruger Single Six .22lr/.22WMR, the
 >.22WMR was the same diameter, only longer. You _could_ fire .22lr in a
 >.22WMR, but it's not recommended, as the chamber for a .22WMR is significantly
 >longer...that's why the Single Six comes with both .22lr and .22WMR
 >cylinders.

Not true.  The .22LR uses a heel-based bullet - consequently the outside
case diameter is the same as the bullet diameter.  The .22WMRF does NOT 
use a heel-based bullet and the outside case diameter is LARGER than the
bullet diameter.  If a .22LR is fired in a .22WMRF, the LR case could
rupture since the CASE is a smaller diameter.

-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Doug P. Forbush               dpf@convex.csd.uwm.edu
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: rpalmer@Think.COM (Ralph Palmer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Definition of magazine (clip)
Date: 12 Dec 92 00:21:40 GMT
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA

I was wondering if someone could post the definition of a ammunition
magazine with respect to the new magazine restrictions in Canada,
Hawaii and in similar bills submitted to Congress?  I know that the
"gun" part of a firearm is the serial number piece, but how have
they proposed to control magazines?  Most magazines have multiple
parts, body, spring, follower and maybe a floor plate.  Which 
parts would be controlled?  Also how are "blocked" magazines, such as
what Colt does to its 20 round magazine to limit it to 5 rounds, 
handled under these laws?  Are they considered to be 5 or 20 round
mags?

			Ralph Palmer
			rpalmer@think.com
From: upchrch!joel@peora.sdc.ccur.com (Joel Upchurch  )
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Smith & Wesson Autos
Date: 12 Dec 92 17:16:58 GMT
Organization: Upchurch Computer Consulting, Orlando FL

callison@essex.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison) writes:

# The SIG has superior accuracy, and, IMHO, superior fit and finish
# compared to the Smiths. I'd like to have a full-size Smith in 10mm,
# but the grips are horrible (IMHO) and the thing just feels like
# it's cheaply made. I also can't stand those paper-thin barrels
# they use. But your mileage may vary, and obviously does.

That reminds me of a comment one reviewer made about the S&W single
stack compact .40 pistol. He found that it actually more accurate than
the full size .40 pistols, even though the barrel was shorter. His
opinion was that this was because the full size .40 pistols were built
on 9mm frames and ended up with thin barrels, while the compact .40
was built on a compact .45 frame and ended up with a thick rigid
barrel. The barrel did appear to be quite a bit thicker in the
pictures that came with the article. How much effect this would
actually have on the accuracy of a pistol I have no idea.


(If your mail bounces use the address below.)
Joel Upchurch/Upchurch Computer Consulting/718 Galsworthy/Orlando, FL 32809
joel@peora.ccur.com {uiucuxc,hoptoad,petsd,ucf-cs}!peora!joel (407) 859-0982
From: u2100aa@unx.ucc.okstate.edu (Jeffrey D. Spitler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Wanted:Lead Shot in Bulk Quantities
Date: 15 Dec 92 23:33:51 GMT

I am looking for a source from which to buy a bulk quantity of 
high-antimony (hard) lead shot. I would like to buy between 250 and 500
lbs.
UPS delivery would be prohibitively expensive, so I would
prefer to find a source that I could drive to.  In the near future,
Oklahoma, North Texas, Missouri, Kansas, Illinois would be convenient.

Any suggestions as to sources would be appreciated.

On a related note, a few years ago there were some systems for
making shot at home.  One of them, as I recall dropped shot into
diesel fuel.  As anyone out there ever tried one?  Are they still 
available?

Thanks,
Jeff Spitler
From: sjo@sunsrvr1.cci.com (Steve Owens)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: A gun in the home....
Date: 17 Dec 92 12:18:02 GMT
Organization: [Computer Consoles, Inc., Rochester, NY


	I haven't been keeping up with this thread, so I apologize
if this has been mentioned, but what about the NRA's Eddie Eagle
program?  If I remember right they have book, videos, etc, that
teach kids what to do when they find a gun.  Might be worth looking
into.



							Steve


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Read between the lines                             Steven J Owens @ CCI
 Criticize the words they're selling             (716) 482-5000 Ext 2867
 Think for yourself and feel the walls                 sjo@op632.cci.com
 Become sand beneath your feet." - Queensryche "Anybody Listening?"
From: crumrine@pxdvgx.erenj.com (MDCRUMR  Crumrine)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Info sought: M16 shorty  (CAR??)
Date: 19 Dec 92 00:24:03 GMT
Organization: Exxon Research and Engineering, NJ

Hi all,

I've seen pictures of the short version of the M16, and I think 
I've seen it refered to as the CAR(?). Does anyone have info
on this weapon, such as who made it, which services used it,
is it still in production, etc.  All info is appreciated.

Thanks,

mike

==================================================================
Mike Crumrine
Exxon Research and Engineering
Annandale, NJ
(908) 730-2237
crumrine@erenj.com
==================================================================
From: gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: A gun in the home....
Date: 16 Dec 92 03:08:02 GMT
Organization: U.S. Army Ballistic Research Lab, APG MD.


In article <1992Dec14.085758.22380@netcom.com> harp@netcom.com (Gregory O. Harp) writes:
#I imagine that just shooting a melon, possibly resulting in a
#spectacular display, would just spark a kid's interest.

That was my concern.  There are fine lines between driving home an
important safety message, tramautizing the kid, and awakening an
interest in playing with guns.  I think the exact approach must
depend on the overall philosophy the parents have toward raising
their kids -- if they've made the mistake of teaching the kid that
the world is a Disney cartoon, it may not be possible to present a
proper lesson involving the potential of grave injury or death.
Or if the kids have gotten in the habit of paying no attention to
parental attempts to instruct them, it may not be wise to bring
guns to their attention.  On the other hand, they're going to
encounter guns sooner or later so if there is some way to give
them reasonable safety instruction that sticks, it should be done.
From: btree!hale@UCSD.EDU (Bob Hale)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: What about these Helwans???
Date: 15 Dec 92 00:54:22 GMT
Organization: Brooktree Corporation, San Diego

In article <199212110638.AA00963@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes:
#In article <1992Dec9.110817.24291@news.uit.no> steffen@stud.cs.uit.no (Steffen Baeroe) writes:
##Why is it not allowed to use jacketed bullets on your local range?
##I was under the impression that jacketed bullets gave a better 
##protection against lead-poisoning?
#
#Possibly because of the backstop: I used to shoot at a range with a
#fairly weak backstop (and, just in case, a grabage dump next door...)
#The rule was no full metal jacket rounds, no magnum rounds on the
#25-yard range, no center-fire rifle rounds on the 25 or 50-yard
#ranges. 

Our range has a rule that no FMJ rifle bullets can be used except at the
maximum range (100 yards).  Our backstop is excellent (a sandy hill).

The limitation is to reduce the danger from ricochets; the assumption
is that any soft-point bullet will be much less likely to ricochet
than a jacketed bullet.  It's probably a case of over-caution since
our backstop is so good but it's far better to err on the side of
safety.

I don't know if the same rule applies to handgun bullets; I would
suspect that if it does the maximum range is less (probably 50 yards).

Bob Hale                                      ...!ucsd!btree!hale
...!btree!hale@ucsd.edu                       ...!ucsd!btree!hale@uunet.uu.net
From: forda@gtephx.UUCP (Andrew Ford @ AGCS, Phoenix, Arizona)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .357mag vs .44mag
Date: 19 Dec 92 00:24:10 GMT
Organization: gte

In article <199212152104.AA19190@cherokee.advtech.uswest.com>, kdlin@advtech.uswest.com (David Lin) writes:
# In article <1992Dec15.070103.15131@latcs1.lat.oz.au> jd@latcs1.lat.oz.au (John Dimogotsis) writes:
# #...
# #	hence the question does .44 offer some advantage over
# #	.357 when used for defense purposes? And under what
# #	set of conceivable circumstances?
# 
# Maybe shoothing someone in his/her car? Perhaps shooting someone behind
# a thick wall? Or you can play "Dirty Harry"? :)
# 

Definitely when defending yourself against a charging bear!

Definitely NOT in your hallway at 2am (the .357 will exceed the 
threshold of pain for your ears, inside a building, louder is 
not better).
-- 
"25 States allow anyone to buy a gun, strap it on, and walk down the street with
no permit of any kind: some say it's crazy.  However, 4 out of 5 US murders are 
committed in the other half of the country: so who is crazy?"   -  Andrew Ford
gtephx!forda@enuucp.eas.asu.edu  OR  !uunet!samsung!romed!enuucp!gtephx!forda
From: rboudrie@chpc.org (Rob Boudrie)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Transporting handgun in DC (was Re: dealing with a police officer)
Date: 19 Dec 92 22:48:13 GMT
Organization: Center For High Perf. Computing of WPI; Marlboro Ma

#In any case, I've never been searched in the course of a traffic stop. My
#advice would be to smile, be polite to the officer, and take your ticket. 
#
#Never volunteer.
#

Free advice :

If you travel through "grey" areas (ones in which your guns are legal, but
the law is confusing enough that the officers may not know that), be sure that
there is NOTHING in or on the car indicating "gun owner".  I know from 
experience that ANY "gun related" paraphenalia or clothing can prompt a 
friendly question "any guns in the car?" at a routine traffice stop (no
incident occurred in my case).  If you are in one of these "grey areas"
you are in a difficult situation : tell the turth, and maybe have to hire
a lawyer to point out that you were obeying the law, or commit the crime
of lying to a police officer.  Better to avoid having to make that choice
by being discreete (the spies refer to this as "getting lost in a crowd of 
one").

                                        rob b.
From: keith@scorpio.ic.cmc.ca (Keith de Solla)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Dillon presses
Date: 19 Dec 92 00:24:00 GMT
Organization: Canadian Microelectronics Corporation

So, its almost time to buy a progressive loader, & the question is
which Dillon press to buy?  At the moment I reload 9mm, .357Mag, and
.308win.  My primary interest is volume 9mm for IPSC & probably a
bigger calibre in the future for IPSC major (.40 or .45).
Questions:
- is the Square Deal a decent press?  Does it use standard dies?
- what extra features does the 550B have?
- can you load rifle rounds much quicker on a progressive, given
  the addition of a lubing step?  I don't reload .308 in any volume
  which makes me lean towards the Square Deal.

thanks for the help.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
| Keith P. de Solla, P.Eng |  "Be sure brain is engaged before    |
| CMC                      |   putting mouth in gear"             |
| keith@orion.ic.cmc.ca    |                                      |
From: cmort@ncoast.org (Christopher Morton)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Feeding a Glock
Date: 19 Dec 92 22:48:12 GMT
Organization: North Coast Public Access *NIX, Cleveland, OH

As quoted from <1grl6eINNs8s@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> by bz269@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (James D. Del Vecchio):

# He probably did check his facts.  I have also heard of feeding problems
# when using subsonic 9mm in Glock 17 and 19s.
# 
Having done a considerable amount of loading of 147 lead and jacketed bullets
for the Glock 17, I have this to offer.

Due to the considerable length, the 147gr. bullets tend to bulge thick cases,
especially Norinco cases.  The Glocks have tighter than usual chambers.  In
combination, you get rounds that can't be chambered in a Glock 17 that will
drop into a Browning HP chamber.

The solution that I've found is to avoid Norinco cases in the Glock (factory 
loaded ammo works perfectly).  It's also helpful to pull the barrel and test
each round to see if it fits in the chamber.  I own a Browning and a friend 
owns a Glock.  We have a mixture of cases and the rounds that won't fit the
Glock go to me.



-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------  

"Well whose opinions did you THINK these were...?" 
------------------------------------------------------------------  
"It's 11:59pm, do you know where your congressman's checkbook is?"
------------------------------------------------------------------ 
Christopher Morton
{uunet|backbone}!ncoast.org!cmort                      cmort@ncoast.org
From: davep@hpfcpp.fc.hp.com (David Post)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: case specifications
Date: 14 Dec 92 14:15:24 GMT

One thing I've learned in this group is to never trust reloading data.
Always cross-correlate one source with another.

In my preparation to learn enough to begin reloading, I have accumulated
several reloading manuals and begun to compare loadings for 9mm.  I have
looked at Sierra, Speer, Nosler, and Hornady as well as the Ken Waters _Pet
Loads.

Now I have a question.

Aren't there any specs on case dimensions from SAAMI or somewhere else?

Not one of these sources give a tolerance on case dimensions.  Only _Pet
Loads_ even suggests that there is both a minimum and a maximum OAL or 
variations on other dimensions.  

Elsewhere, other dimensions simply have no tolerance at all.  For example, a
drawing on the 9mm parabellum case will show the mouth at nominal 0.380, no
tolerance.  From this, you cannot even tell whether 0.380 is before or after
a taper crimp.

David Post    davep@hpfcpp.fc.hp.com  hplabs!hpfcla!post
From: sybok@athena.mit.edu (The Rifleman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: AKMs
Date: 18 Dec 92 13:35:33 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

I'd like opinions as to which is more reliable:

        1.) The "MAADI AK-47 RIFLE"
            Egyptian Made.  (Not PRC.)
            Chromed Barrel.
            Phosphate finish.
            @ $229,
 
           or

        2.) Hungarian "SA 85M (AK47)"
            Comes with 6rd mag.
            @ $299.

Both are equipped with emasculated :-( thumbhole stocks
rather than pistol grips.  (NIB original Norinco grip AKs
are now going for $600, and Poly Tech for $700!)

Anyone know if either of these take standard AK 30-rd mags?

Also, I remember something about FFLs having to notify BATF
if you buy more than one gun in a five-day period---is this
true?  Just wondering.  We've got some 30 shopping days
till "Clinton."
  
(Oh.  And you're a BATF agent reading this, I'll leave milk and
cookies on the table for when you come down the chimney to
leave an "ATF -- Nothing found" in my disassembled safe. :-)
From: mopar+@cs.cmu.edu (Paul Kikuchi)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Beretta?
Date: 15 Dec 92 23:34:04 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon



If you own or have owned a Beretta hand gun,  Could
you share your experience with me.  I am interested in
quality, accuracy, reliablity, fit and finish and
durabilty.  Likes and dislikes would be helpful.

Does anybody have any input on the Beretta 92F in
stainless steel?  Is it as good and reliable as the
standard 92F? Are there any other Beretta's offered
in stainless steel?

I would appreciate any help,

Paul Kikuchi
Pittsburgh PA
From: baechler@lia.di.epfl.ch (Emmanuel Baechler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Smith & Wesson Autos
Date: 14 Dec 92 14:15:35 GMT


# I don't ever stop wondering why people would by a S&W .357 magnum
# revolver for example, with folks constantly warning "Don't shoot too
# much Magnum through that gun, use .38 special instead".  IMHO, if you
# buy a S&W .357 Magnum, you should be able to fire .357MAG through it
# EVERY time out without hurting the gone (more than any other .357 out
# there anyway).

To be complete, one must however add that, if the S&W pistols are junk
(model 41 and 52 excepted, of course), they are able to produce some good
revolvers. The S&W 686, for example, is both accurate and durable. A range
here rents one which has shot more than 50'000 shots. Gunsmith here, when
they sell second hand 686 having fired 10'000 shots add a 1 year warranty
at their own risk.

Maybe, the real problem is that S&W revolvers have few serious contenders.
The only advantage of brazillian and spanish ones is the price, definitely
not the quality. The Python has been a very serious one. I recently heard
that, since Colt is financed by the Austrians, they have restared to produce
quality items. So, the Python is again on the list. Finally there are the
three french manurhins (MR-73, 88 and 93).

Emmanuel Baechler.                        | Tel.: ++41-21-693-2732
Laboratoire d'Intelligence Artificielle   | e-mail: baechler@lia.di.epfl.ch
Ecole Polytechnique Federale de Lausanne  |     or: baechler@liasun6.epfl.ch
MA-Ecublens                               | Standard Disclaimer
CH-1015 Lausanne	Switzerland

Ban the bomb. Save the world for conventional warfare.
From: ems@michael.apple.com (E. Michael Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Cheap case cleaner?
Date: 19 Dec 92 15:20:57 GMT
Organization: Circle 'C' Shellfish Ranch, Shores of the Pacific, California

Would an ultrasonic jewlery cleaner work OK on small lots of brass?

I only reload a hundred rounds or two at a crack, and then only on
an 'every month or two' basis (I shoot a lot of .22 LR ...), and
can't quite bring myself to spend $200 for a vibratory case
cleaner (i.e. Turbo Tumbler).

I can get a jewlery cleaner for $30 that would  do lots of 20  ...
IF it would work...  Any ideas?

-- 

E. Michael Smith  ems@apple.COM

'Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it.  Boldness has
 genius, power and magic in it.'  -  Goethe

I am not responsible nor is anyone else.  Everything is disclaimed.