HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: steve@fid.morgan.com (Steve Apter)
Subject: Re: Music of the Fantastic
Organization: Morgan Stanley & Co., New York, NY
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 05:30:31 GMT

In article <1992Aug26.035438.7340@Princeton.EDU> roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig) writes:
>In article <25AUG199215350834@portal.lasc.lockheed.com> le01167@portal.lasc.lockheed.com (Ron Nadel (x2025)) writes:
>>>In article <EeaIluy00WBKA5rK0l@andrew.cmu.edu>,
>>>> .  I would like to find more orchestral works which are
>>>>along this line; grounded in the fantastic and/or macabre.
>
>>There's Bartok's Miraculous Mandarin Ballet (and suite). 
>
>>Don't pass up Berlioz's Symphonie Sequel _L'Elio_, although
>
>That's "Lelio."  The hero's name.
>
>>strictly speaking it's not totally orchestral with a speaker
>>and choral parts.
>
>And a movement with piano accomp.  A sort of garbage heap of Berlioz
>leftovers, with a fairly silly narrative to string the m together.
>Unintentionally hilarious, if performed exactly as specified, alas. 
>Berlioz pushed it too far with this one, though some of the bits are
>very good.

The Boulez version, with Jean-Louis Barrault (he of _Children of
Paradise_ fame) is still available on a budget CBS tape.  Other
performances sound anemic next to this one.

And don't overlook _The Damnation of Faust_.  Colin Davis, on
Philips.

>>If not already mentioned to death there's Saint-Saens' Danse
>>Macabre and Mussorgsky's Night on Bald Mountain.

All of Alkan, much of Liszt.  I recommend the MCA double-decker
of Scherchen conducting _Dante_, and others, and Beecham's _Faust
Symphony_ on EMI.  Both el cheapo.

>Actually, you might consider *most* of Rachmaninoff's music to have
>at least an element of the macabre.  He was perhaps overly fond of
>quoting the "Dies irae" in this work and that, or at least alluding to 
>it.  Of course it's blatant in the later works.   There are also some
>things like "The Isle of the Dead," a symphonic poem.  
>
>(Memo to Brian: what do you think of Rach's metaphysical value
>judgments?  I doubt they're your speed.)
>
>>Stravinky's Ballets fit the bill (the big trio Firbird, Petrushka, 
>>and Rite of Spring particularly).
>
>Oh, heck, half of Romanticism fits.  Weber's Freischuetz and Oberon.
>Wagner's Flying Dutchman.  (Use the overtures if you only want orchestral.)
>Schumann, Mendelssohn, MAhler.  Saint-Saens.  Franck (Chasseur Maudit!).
>On and on.

And on and on:  Debussy (the Poe piece, what's it called?), Dukas &
Bartok (one Bluebeard apiece).

>Roger (note new address)

noted.  ("heck"?  Jeepers!)
From: chomicki@cis.ksu.edu (Jan Chomicki)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Shostakovich's musical joke
Date: 26 Aug 1992 20:32:22 GMT
Organization: Kansas State University, Dept. of Computing and Information Sciences
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: antares.cis.ksu.edu

Apparently, Shostakovich set an example of Soviet stalinist music
criticism (dumping on degenerate Western music etc.) to some
deliberately crude but "politically correct" music. The resulting
piece is supposed to be hilarious.

Does anyone know its name and the available recordings?


-- 
Jan Chomicki				Computing and Information Sciences
					234 Nichols Hall
Internet: chomicki@harris.cis.ksu.edu	Kansas State University
Phone: (913) 532-6350			Manhattan, KS 66506-2302
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: studio der fruhen musik
From: phoogenboom@eagle.wesleyan.edu
Date: 31 Aug 92 13:46:15 EDT
Organization: Wesleyan University

In article <9208311531.AA13262@mammoth.Berkeley.EDU>, SLC@HARVARDA.HARVARD.EDU (Steven Cantor) writes:
> there were a number of recordings made by the group studio der fruhen musik
> (thomas binkley, andrea von ramme, etc.) for the reflexe series (german emi,
> i think) of early music recordings.  i found many of these recordings to be
> quite wonderful and was wondering if anyone knew whether or not any of these
> had been/will be reissued on cd?
> thanks,
> s.

Yes.  The early music recording archive at IU received several of these CD's
last spring.  I do not remember the label; sorry.  Perhaps you can write the
Early Music Institute of the Indiana University School of Music (Bloomington,
IN 47405) for information.  Mr. Binkley is the director of the EMI and the
recording archive, the exact name of which I do not remember.

Peter Hoogenboom
phoogenb@ucs.indiana.edu
From: wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Portuguese Polyphony
Date: 3 Sep 92 14:58:12 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620

In article <1992Aug30.180504.25872@nntpd.lkg.dec.com>, tomanix@sintra.xip.dec.com (Antonio Rodrigues) writes:
> 
> To the appreciators I strongly advise :
> 
>  "Masterpieces of Portuguese Polyphony", by the William Byrd Choir, hyperion.
> 
> and specially
> 
>  "Frei Manuel Cardoso REQUIEM", by the Tallis Scholars, Gimell.
> 
>  The Portuguese school of renaissance composers is beginning to be explored, 
> and Frei Manuel Cardoso is in my opinion one of the great composers although
> not very well known.

I agree. One of the choirs I sing with has recently recorded the Cardoso
Requiem, along with the Duarte L^obo Requiem for release soonish by Naxos. They
are incredible pieces of polyphony, still high renaissance when the rest of
Europe had moved on to florid Baroquery.
-- 

Stephen Wilcox             |   Remember what happened to the dinosaurs!
wilcox@maths.oxford.ac.uk  |    I did---and look what happened to me.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: steve@fid.morgan.com (Steve Apter)
Subject: Re: Janacek's Glagolitic Mass
Organization: Morgan Stanley & Co., New York, NY
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 16:03:26 GMT

In article <1992Aug25.170223.17199@midway.uchicago.edu> gustavo@dent.uchicago.edu (Gustavo Comezana) writes:
>    Has anyone had a chance to listen to the new recording of the
>Glagolitic Mass conducted by M. Tilson Thomas? I would be interested
>to hear opinions on this particular performance ...

The August 92 issue of Classic CD contains a typically gushy interview
with the irrepressible TT.  The sampler CD includes a 12 minute excerpt
from the Mass (the Credo).  But heck (tm RL) the magazine costs almost
as much as the CD.



Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: diarmuid@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Diarmuid Pigott)
Subject: Re: Have you heard the one about...
Organization: University of Western Australia
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 03:21:03 GMT

garretso@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Leon T. Garretson) writes:
: 
: 	Sorry to be so general, but believe me, you'd know it if you
: 	heard it... I'm desperate for the title.   Thanks. Leon

Carmina Burana by Carl Orff
From: mikulska@bessel.Princeton.EDU (Margaret Mikulska)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Shostakovich's musical joke
Date: 26 Aug 92 21:07:18 GMT
Organization: Princeton University
Originator: news@nimaster

In article <chomicki.714861404@antares.cis.ksu.edu.cis.ksu.edu> chomicki@cis.ksu.edu (Jan Chomicki) writes:
>
>Apparently, Shostakovich set an example of Soviet stalinist music
>criticism (dumping on degenerate Western music etc.) to some
>deliberately crude but "politically correct" music. The resulting
>piece is supposed to be hilarious.
>
>Does anyone know its name and the available recordings?

The piece is "Rayok" (spelled /r-a-yo-k/, that is, with the Russian
single character for 'yo') or "Learner's Manual".  (The title means 
"gallery", as in a theatre.)  It's written for 4 bass voices, choir, 
and piano - a "satirical cantata" in the form of a discussion, sort of,
what kind of music _should_ be written and what kind is "degenerate" and
to be avoided.

There is a recording on ERATO, containing two versions of the piece: one
sung in Russian, the other one, in English.  (The piece is rather short, 
below 20 min., which gives you a less than 40 min. full-price CD.)

Personally, I think this work is a bit heavy-handed.  I wouldn't call it
"hilarious".  It does have its amusing moments, but on the whole, I was
a bit disappointed.  The work was, of course, nor performed for many
years, and not even mentioned - the text is too viciously satirical - so
when it was finally possible to dig it out, some critics made a lot of
noise about this "unknown work of Shostakovitch".  As a result, the
expectations were high, but not really fulfilled.  It's worth listening
to once or twice, but after that, the humor wears off soon.

I would suggest listening to it in a library or borrowing the CD first,
before you shell out a few $$$ - ERATO isn't among the cheapest - for a
CD with basically less than 20 min. of music (both versions differ only
in the language, and if you understand Russian, you don't even want to
listen to it in English).

-Margaret
mikulska@astro.princeton.edu
From: rtut@troi.cc.rochester.edu (Raymond Tuttle)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Beecham conducts Delius and some "lollipops" - CD reviews
Date: 3 Sep 92 22:34:36 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester (Rochester, NY)

With summer nearing its end, much of Frederick Delius' wistfully
pastoral music seems  apposite for this time of year.  Conductor Sir
Thomas Beecham's recordings for EMI of Delius' music are considered to
be classics.  Now EMI/Angel Records has released a worthy addendum to
their 2 CD set of Beecham conducting Delius (CDCB-47509); this
particular CD (CDM 64054, mid-priced) contains earlier recordings
dating from 1946 and 1952, and again features Beecham's  pet Royal
Philharmonic Orchestra. 

This disc is particularly valuable because none of the four pieces
("Dance Rhapsody No. 1," the Violin Concerto, "The Song of the High
Hills" and "Paa vidderne") are included in the later collection.  Each of
these works (which all are top-drawer Delius, with the possible
exception of the concerto) exists in more modern recordings with other
conductors, but Beecham's performances are preferable for their
directness and communicative power.  The "Dance Rhapsody" never has
sounded so elemental and bardic, and "The Song of the High Hills" is rich
in a mystical atmosphere.  The soloist in the concerto is Jean Pougnet;
his tonal sweetness comes as no surprise, given his association with
various English salon orchestras during and after he war.  The monaural
recordings still sound fine: clear, but not clinical.  A light blanket of
haze helps the Luton Choral Society's impact tremendously. 

Another new release in EMI/ Angel's Beecham Edition is a disc of
Beecham's "Lollipops," his term for the encores with which he often
would close his concerts, not with a bang, but with a contented sigh
(CDM 63412, mid-priced). This 77 minute CD contains 17 "lollipops,"
some familiar (the "Valse Triste" by Sibelius) and some almost
forgotten.  They all are played with great affection by Beecham and the
RPO.  It is a sign of Beecham's sensitivity and genius  for variety that
this bag of sweets can be eaten in one sitting without causing
indigestion.  The recordings were made in the late-50's; all but one are
in stereo, and the sound again is very pleasant. 




--
****************************************   Raymond S. Tuttle
"Dunkel ist das Leben, ist der Tod,"       University of Rochester
but it's nothing to get depressed about!   (still with his two little 
****************************************   white mice).
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dgolber@aero.org (Dave Golber)
Subject: Re: clarinet arcana and transposition
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 18:18:51 GMT

>
>A Clarinet teacher I had in college said that in Stravinsky's
>_The History of a Soldier_, a very hard piece (I can't recall if
>it requires an A along with the Bflat clarinet), you have to fake
>a run or two because the fingering was too difficult for the tem-
>po of the piece. He said that Mitchell Lurie had faked it in a
>recording of "History" (one the the more fameous recordings at
>that time). If my teacher had had time to change to the A clar-
>inet at that point he said it would have been easy to make the run 
>cleanly.
>
Another example is the Prokofiev "Overture on a Hebrew Theme", which
(I believe) Benny Goodman commissioned from him.  Very charming, lovely
piece, not TOO difficult ... except for this passage near the end,
in which he writes a fast increasing-tempo passage using the WORST
fingerings on the instrument.

My theory is that he did this deliberately in order to keep amateurs
from playing the piece!

Dave Golber
From: maverick@cs.berkeley.edu (Vance Maverick)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Listener as maker [was Manners, children]
Date: 26 Aug 1992 19:30:44 GMT
Organization: CS Division, UC Berkeley
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: mahogany.cs.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Aug26.175327.10811@fid.morgan.com>, steve@fid.morgan.com (Steve Apter) writes:
|> 
|> I realize that when distinctions are undrawn (even the distinction
|> between making a distinction and not making one), finding ones way
|> in these matters becomes treacherous, but is it not the case that
|> *this* distinction -- that of making and consuming music -- is
|> precisely the one that is under scrutiny in works such as 4'33"?

Fair enough.  And I think it's because he takes listening so seriously
that he doesn't tell people how to do it -- he doesn't consider
himself the authority on how his pieces should be heard/made.

|> One of the things I want from a theory of music (of art in general)
|> is an account of how the kind of listening (experience) we're concerned
|> with (viz., with aesthetic_mode <= TRUE) involves a special kind of
|> activity.

(Aside: in your psychological programming language, is the <= operator
for assignment or comparison?)

Good luck finding such a theory, especially since (as we see every day
on this group) the answer will exhibit such extravagant individual
variation.

|> What do *I* do when listening to 4'33" that I *don't* do
|> when not listening at all for four minutes, thirty-three seconds?

If you're like Brian, the answer is probably "Foam at the mouth." 
Your mileage may vary....

	Vance
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: brad@baby.viewlogic.com (Bradford Kellogg)
Subject: Re: Top Five Russian Operas (was: Top Ten Operas)
Originator: brad@baby
Organization: Viewlogic Systems, Inc.
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 22:39:09 GMT



One that I haven't seen mentioned yet:

Prokofiev - War and Peace

Considering the weight of the book, and the Russian cinematic 
production, you might expect the opera to be Wagnerian in length,
but Serge kept it to a reasonable length.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: tml@tik.vtt.fi (Tor Lillqvist)
Subject: Re: records-database
	<CB.92Aug31153656@tamarack13.timbuk>
	<1992Sep1.042931.4765@Princeton.EDU>
Organization: Technical Research Centre of Finland, Laboratory for Information
	Processing (VTT/TIK)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 09:00:23 GMT

More difficult questions about recording databases:

What's the name of a piece or a recording? Classical pieces and
recordings especially often don't have a definite, explicit name like
most rock or popular songs/recordings.

An example: DG 431 813-2, "Matt Haimowitz plays Suites and Sonatas for
Solo Cello". Is that the title? Or is it "Suites and ..." and M.H. the
performer? Or should one simply use verbatim the text that appears in
the CD "spine" or front as its title?

Should the names of pieces be in the composer's native language? Or in
English because "everybody knows English" (even if neither the
composer nor the performer were English-speaking?) Or in the language
of the record company, as it appears on the disc? Should "generic"
names like "<instrument> <n-tet> #n" not be in text form at all, but
some kind of tuple (instrument-class, #-of-players, number)?
--
Tor Lillqvist,
working, but not speaking, for the Technical Research Centre of Finland
From: gsinghma@reed.edu (Gaurav)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Lyrics requested to Beethoven's 9th
Keywords: Beethoven, 9th symphony
Date: 29 Aug 92 00:49:57 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Aug29.004957.22955
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

If anyone knows the words to the final Allegro Assai of Beethoven's 9th  
symphony, or can point to a source containing the same, I would much  
appreciate it if he/she would send either (or both) to me through  
electronic mail. Kindly do not post your replies, I do not often frequent  
newsgroups.

All this assumes that these words are in German. If not, please do ignore  
this request.

Thank you most kindly.

- gaurav prakash singhmar
gsinghma@reed.edu

"I went to a place to eat that said 'breakfast anytime.'  So I ordered  
French toast during the renaissance."
	-- Steven Wright
From: bobs@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Bob Sutton)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Korngold
Date: 2 Sep 92 02:46:31 GMT
Organization: MIT Laboratory for Computer Science

In article <1992Aug31.155335.16991@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> spg@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Stephen P. Guthrie) writes:
>I have heard that Korngold was a child prodigy acclaimed by Strauss, Mahler
>and Schoenberg. I know he worked for Hollywood after being forced to flee
>from the Nazis, but did he ever realize his potential with 'serious' music.
>I have heard his violin concerto but nothing else. There are some recordings
>of orchestral music out there (eg. symphony, sinfonietta) and also some
>chamber works and operas (Die Tote Stadt). Are any of these of interest
>or are they second rate works?

Korngold died rather prematurely (like Mozart, Mahler, Schubert).  He had
a lot of serious stuff under his belt before he arrived in the US, much of 
which was written before he was 18.  After the war he wrote quite a bit
including the great Violin Concerto.  Personally, I don't care ffor much
of his serious work except for the Violin Concerto but there is a lot of
interest in his music lately.  Listen to the radio and find out for yourself.
That's how I found out about the Violin Concerto.


-- 
Bob Sutton                        Love, most bitterly and fiercely oppresses
bobs@gnu.ai.mit.edu		  those who fight it than those who offer
al876@cleveland.freenet.edu       their servitude.    -- Ovid (Amores)
From: ams@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical,rec.music.cd
Subject: Summary: Ordering CDs from overseas
Date: 24 Aug 92 17:09:32 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620


	Tired of paying 13 quid a shot for CDs? Here's a little bedtime reading 
for impoverished music lovers in Britain...

	These are a few US-based CD suppliers, who (according to the people who 
sent me the addresses) will sell CDs by mail order. I emphasize that I have no 
connection whatsoever with any of these firms, and have never (yet) ordered 
from any of them. For all I know, they are all run by Robert Maxwell lookalikes
who will abscond with your money as soon they see it. But it seems worthwhile 
trying, given the certainty of being ripped off by British dealers. Many thanks 
to those who sent me addresses.

	Note especially that 800 numbers are toll-free, and probably don't work 
from overseas. (Does anybody know for certain?) Given the time difference, 
ordering by fax must have its attractions, anyway.

Michael.

PS At the current (admittedly abnormal) exchange rates, 13 pounds=US$25 roughly.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
21st Century Sound
846 Lancaster Ave
Bryn Mawr, PA 19010	(215) 525-7173

--
Bose Express Music
The Mountain
Framingham Ma 01701	Fax: 	508-875-00604
			Tel:	1-800-451-BOSE (2673)
$5 S+H for outside the US, except for the catalogue. Catalogue costs $6, refundable with first order. S+H is $3.95 per music order (CDs must be less than $17.00). Also at

50 W. 17th St.
NYC, NY 10010		Tel:	1-800-233-6357

--
Compact Disc Connection,
1016 E. El Camino Real
Sunnyvale, Ca 94087	Modem:	1-408-730-9015 (8,N,1,F)
			Tel:	1-408-733-0801
			Fax:	1-408-733-0801
Orders over $100 shipped free of charge.

--
Haverstick & Ballyk
2186 Jackson Keller
San Antonio, TX 78213	Tel:	1-800-222-6872

Prices $11.97/$8.97/$5.97 (full/mid/budget). Shipping - min $2.50, max $9.50, though I strongly suspect this is the domestic rate. You'll have to ask them
yourself.

--
Nathan Muchnick, Inc.
1725 Chestnut Street
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19103

Shipping charges vary according to the type of shipping (eg 2 discs airmail to England should be around $7).

--
Noteworthy Music Inc.
17 Airport Road
Nashua, NH 03063	Tel:	603-881-5729 for catalogue
				603-883-9551 to order from overseas
			Fax:	603-883-9220
Catalogues are $5 overseas, mailing charges vary (Germany is $14.50 for the first disc, $5 for each one after that). 

--
Record Masters
711 W. 40th Street
Baltimore, MD 21211	Tel:	800-727-3472 (Toll-free, may not work from 
						abroad)
				410-366-1250
			Fax:	410-235-0534

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: mgresham@dscatl.UUCP (Mark Gresham)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Lawrence Welk is dead
Date: 31 Aug 92 04:54:51 GMT
Reply-To: mgresham@dscatl.UUCP (Mark Gresham)
Organization: Digital Systems Co,  Atlanta, Ga

In article <92241.151304MHUGHES@MIAMIU.BITNET> MHUGHES@MIAMIU.BITNET writes:
>Does anyone know if the proposed Bush budget has a appropriation for a
>John Cage museum?

I expect the same one the more radical elements in his party have
in mind for the National Endowment.
 
>:)  :)  :)  :)  :)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
L. Welk bubbles?

(Welcome to Hell...Here's your accordion. --G.L.)


Cheers,

--Mark Gresham

dscatl!mgresham@gatech.edu

==========================
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: chrisi@lloyd.Camex.COM (Chris Ischay)
Subject: Re: viola music
Organization: Camex Inc., Boston MA
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 12:48:31 EDT

In article <1992Aug26.092840.18090@nuscc.nus.sg> art30248@nusunix3.nus.sg
(NG LING LING) writes:

>Also, are there any recordings (on major labels) of the 2 Brahms op.120
>sonatas for viola & piano ? The reason I say major labels is because
>here in Singapore, we only get the big labels...DG, EMI, Decca, Philips,

I have William Primrose`s recordings on the budget label of one of the
major labels.  I think it's Seraphim.  I haven't seen them on CD, but I
haven't looked either.  I've never heard another violist make as much sense
of this music as Primrose does.  His facility is extraordinary.  

Chris Ischay
chrisi@camex.com
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: art30248@nusunix2.nus.sg (NG LING LING)
Subject: Re: Nigel Kennedy
Organization: National University of Singapore
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 08:42:48 GMT

I got a little turned off with Nige especially with his rather ruff and
roar treatment of Vivaldi's 4 Seasons.

Anyhow, before I get flamed by his fans, I must say his Walton Violin
and Viola Concertos with Andre Previn/LSO was superb. His Violin would
rival his master's interpretation (Menuhin) but with a definitely
quicker fingerboard work-rate. His viola concerto was too thin, maybe
cos he could get a good viola.

D
D
anyhow, my $0.02 worht...
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical