Path: think.com!ames!olivea!uunet!mcsun!news.funet.fi!hydra!klaava!tolvanen
   From: tolvanen@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Martti Tolvanen)
   Newsgroups: comp.infosystems.wais,alt.wais
   Date: 6 May 92 14:07:34 GMT
   References: <1992May5.205022.262@msen.com> <1992May6.105809.9153@rdg.dec.com>
   Organization: University of Helsinki
   Lines: 6
   Xref: think.com comp.infosystems.wais:4 alt.wais:731
 
   Where does one find the WAIS client that runs under UNIX (related to GNU
   Emacs?)
 
   -- 
   Martti Tolvanen, Dept. Biochem., Univ. Helsinki, Finland
   tolvanen@cc.helsinki.fi
 
 
it is in the unix release:
 
 
	   New Unix Internet Release (Beta 3 Release) Available
		 	   September 16, 1991
 
Thank you for the interest in WAIS.  The servers on Quake (including the
directory of servers) has 70k requests from over 1100 different hosts all
over the world (18 countries) in a couple of months.  There are now 70
servers including one in Norway, one in Australia, poetry, recipies,
comp.sources, as well as a Connection Machine serving all sorts of things.
 
There are are a few mailing lists on this subject that you might want to be
on: 
	wais-interest: only announcements like this (1 a month or so)
	wais-discussion: moderated mailings every 1 or 2 weeks.  Good
			stuff including all on wais-interest.
	wais-talk: unmoderated for implementors and interactive discussions.
Requests to wais-<foo>-request@think.com.  Archives available from
wais server: wais-discussion or anonymous ftp from quake.think.com.
 
A bibliography of available written materials and resources is available
from /pub/wais/wais-discussion/bibliography.txt@quake.think.com (ftp) or 
WAIS server wais-discussion-archive.src, or on request from Barbara@think.com.
 
Jonathan Goldman pulled the most recent release together (with help from
developers all over the world, see below):
Highlights of modifications (see the release for the full report)
	Overall: make it more portable, and small enhancements
Thank you to all that have contributed bug reports and suggestions.  There
are no concrete plans for the next release.
 
Overview of components:
In this release is source code for:
 * Server code:  There is code to index text and picture files.
 * Protocol code: based on Z39.50-1988 using the internet.
 * Clients code: User interfaces for contacting servers
	* GNU emacs interface
	* simple shell interface 
	* Mac interface (in separate WAIStation file)
	* tool kit for making your own interfaces
	* X interface
 * Directory of servers: This is be a network service that lists
	existing servers and how to contact them.
 * A Connection Machine server with some patent information, the CIA
	factbook, and some Biomedical abstracts, info-mac, risks, etc 
	to serve as example servers.  
 
Other components available elsewhere:
 NeXT release: 	/wais/WAIStation-NeXT-1.0.tar.Z@think.com
 Telnet access: telnet quake.think.com login wais
 DOS: 		/pub/wais/UNC/wais-dos*@samba.oit.unc.edu
 Motif: 	/public/wais/motif-a1.tar.Z@think.com
 IBM RS6000:	/pub/misc/wais-8-b3-dist.tar.Z@ftp.ans.net
 SunView: 	/pub/wais/sunsearch.src.*.tar.Z@samba.oit.unc.edu
 VMS: 		pub/wais/UNC/vms-client
 
The public servers that are currently advertized are:
 
Biology:
 biology-journal-contents.src
 biosci.src 			Molecular-biology.src
 
Usenet and internet archives:
 comp.graphics.src		comp.admin.src
 comp.db.src			comp.emacs.src
 comp.multi.src			comp.archives.src
 rec.pets.src			comp.sources.src
 usenet-science.src 
 user-contrib-cookbook.src 	usenet-cookbook.src
 homebrew.src
 info-mac.src 			sun-spots.src
 
Frequently Asked Questions:
 NeXT.FAQ.src		 	unix.FAQ.src
 ibm.pc.FAQ.src			mac.FAQ.src
 
Connection Machine info:
 CM-applications.src
 CM-tech-summary.src 
 CM-fortran-manual.src	 	CM-paris-manual.src
 CM-star-lisp-docs.src		CMFS-documentation.src
 
Books:
 jargon.src
 bible.src			koran.src
 sample-books.src
 MIT-algorithms-bug.src 	MIT-algorithms-exercise.src 
 MIT-algorithms-suggest.src
 
Libraries:
 online-libraries.src
 tmc-library.src
 
Misc: 
 open_systems_calendar.src	matrix_news.src
 astro-images-gif.src 		astro-images-fits.src
 nsf-bulletins.src
 midi.src
 unimelb-research.src (Australia!)
 supreme-ct.src
 NIH-Guide.src
 UNTComputerDoc.src
 US-Gov-Programs.src
 UiO_Publications.src (Norway!)
 cosmic-abstracts.src		cosmic-programs.src
 directory-of-servers.src
 eff-documents.src		eff-talk.src
 empire.src 			empire20.src
 internet-documents.src		internet-drafts.src
 internet-resource-guide.src	internet-rfcs.src
 patent-sampler.src
 poetry.src
 risks-digest.src
 
 sample-pictures.src
 unix-manual.src
 wais-discussion-archives.src	wais-docs.src
 wall-street-journal-sample.src
 weather.src
 world-factbook.src
 
 
The first "Digital Librarians", I think it would be safe to say are the
maintainers of these servers:
	Geir.Pedersen@use.uio.no
	abc@banjo.concert.net
	ang@theory.lcs.mit.edu
	art@think.com
	billy@unt.edu
	biosci@genbank.bio.net
	brewster@think.com
	chris@cosmic1.cosmic.uga.edu
	fullton@lambada.oit.unc.edu
	ephraim@think.com
	gordon@think.com
	jcurran@nnsc.nsf.net
	jonathan@think.com
	jsq@tic.com
	root@next2.oit.unc.edu
	rvc@ariel.its.unimelb.EDU.AU
	uriw@microworld.media.mit.edu
	wais@eff.org
	wais@talon.UCS.ORST.EDU
	waisp@quake.think.com
	weather-server@quake.think.com
 
The release is available from Think.com via anonymous FTP in
/public/wais/wais-8-b3.tar.Z and WAIStation-0-62.sit.hqx.
 
Bugs to bug-wais@think.com or to me.
 
For the bug fixes, thanks to:
Garrett A. Wollman <wollman@emily.uvm.edu>
Simon E Spero <ses@ccgr.technion.ac.il>
<simon@liasun1.epfl.ch>
kent@parc.xerox.com,
Michael Haberler (mah@parrot.prv.univie.ac.at) and to
gcardwel@uci.edu for bug fixes to the last release.
 
 
-brewster and the wais crew
 
"Paper and flesh are fleeting media for the treasures that are ideas."
 
Brewster Kahle					Thinking Machines Corporation
Brewster@Think.com				1010 El Camino Real
Project Leader					Menlo Park, CA 94025
Wide Area Information Servers			415-329-9300x228
-- 
Carl Kadie -- I do not represent EFF; this is just me.
 =kadie@eff.org, kadie@cs.uiuc.edu =
-------------------
 
From: aultj@rpi.edu (Jim Ault)
Subject: Limiting religious speech
Followup-To: alt.censorship
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 15:16:34 GMT
 
 
Ok, here's a question for anti-censorship people:
 
How many of you are dismayed at the recent Supreme Court ruling in
Lee v. Weisman, which held prayer at graduation ceremonies
unconstitutional?   If this isn't stifling free speech, what is? 
 
Let's all raise our voices and demand that this be overturned.
 
Right?
 
Jim Ault, ITS Systems Programmer, aultj@rpi.edu    <><
-------------------
 
From: kadie@eff.org (Carl M. Kadie)
Subject: Re: Limiting religious speech
Followup-To: alt.censorship
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 15:51:40 GMT
 
Mr. Ault directed follows to alt.censorship (IMO, a good idea),
without mentioning it (IMO, a bad idea).
 
- Carl
 
 
 
-- 
Carl Kadie -- I do not represent EFF; this is just me.
 =kadie@eff.org, kadie@cs.uiuc.edu =
-------------------
 
From: kadie@cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie)
Subject: [news.admin.policy]  Re: copyright == illegal ????
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 07:14:59 GMT
 
 
From: jbotz@mtholyoke.edu (Jurgen Botz)
Subject:  Re: copyright == illegal ????
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 16:37:29 GMT
 
In article <3998@svin02.info.win.tue.nl> luit1@info.win.tue.nl writes:
>jbotz@mtholyoke.edu (Jurgen Botz) writes:
>>Also true, but irrellevant.  I consider the trafficking of copyrighted
>>materials to be morally and legally "wrong" regardless of whether or not
>>someone is going to sue me.
>
>Wow, hold it, right there.
>
>Uptill now I though you were concerned about the legal implications of
>carrying (aledged) copyrighted material. And wether or not you would get
>into trouble with your superiors.
>Now you're saying you find it 'wrong', no matter what ??
 
Where's the contradiction?  I _am_ concerned about the legal
implications.  I also happen to think that trafficking in pirated
material, be it software or other published materials such as images,
is wrong, i.e. unethical.  There is no contradiction between my being
_against_ piracy, and _for_ USENET being treated as a common carrier.
 
>[...] Legally you're in the clear, as many have pointed out.
 
Not quite correct... legally it hasn't been established whether or not
I'm in the clear, but it seems the better judgement to act as if I were
until it is established (hopefully in favor of USENET being a common
carrier).
 
>Morally, you should not be the one to judge. After all, news is for the
>readers, not just for the administrator. Any censorship would mean
>restricting the free access of your users to the net. I am very much
>against any form of censorship that is based on such subjective views.
 
Now you're confusing two separate issues... I have every right to let
my personal oppinion about the ethics of the issue be known.  It
seemed to me that the person I was replying to was saying "piracy is
ok so long as you don't get caught," and as I am of a differing
opinion I felt it to be my responsibility to say so.  This doesn't
mean that I feel I have the right or responsibility to _enforce_ my
personal viewpoint of the ethics involved, and if you go back and
re-read my article (<Bt897t.L4n@mtholyoke.edu>), you will see that
wasn't suggesting that at all.
--
Jurgen Botz                  |   Internet: JBotz@mtholyoke.edu
Academic Systems Consultant  |     Bitnet: JBotz@mhc.bitnet
Mount Holyoke College        |      Voice: (US) 413-538-2375 (daytime)
South Hadley, MA, USA        | Snail Mail: J. Botz, 01075-0629
-------------------
 
From: nbc2134@dsacg2.dsac.dla.mil (Robert F Solon)
Subject: Re: Limiting religious speech
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 09:19:36 GMT
 
In reply to the mail from <aultj@rpi.edu>...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Ok, here's a question for anti-censorship people:
>
>How many of you are dismayed at the recent Supreme Court ruling in
>Lee v. Weisman, which held prayer at graduation ceremonies
>unconstitutional?   If this isn't stifling free speech, what is?
>
>Let's all raise our voices and demand that this be overturned.
>
>Right?
>
>Jim Ault, ITS Systems Programmer, aultj@rpi.edu    <><
>
 
Sorry, I'm not dismayed.  The First Amendment says that Congress shall make no
law infringing on the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the the free
exercise of religion, but it also prohibits the government from advocating any
particular religious pratices.  The "Wall of Seperation" between church and
State is a good idea.  Since the Framers didn't construct a hierarchy of
rights, merely an enumeration of some of them, sometimes rights will clash.
 
More specifically, what were the facts of the case?  I presume the Court
banned prayers at _public_ graduation ceremonies only.  In that case, it seems
there was a clear Establishement Clause violation.  However, let's assume for
a moment that there is a Free Speech issue.  What is it?  The right of the
minister to pray in public?  How does that balance with the right of listeners
to not listen id they so choose?
 
Without knowing either the specifics of the case, or the reasoning the Court
used to arrive at it's decision, or even the vote tally on the case, I must
lean by default toward saying it was O.K.
 
Cheers!
 
Bob
 
 
 
Bob Solon, DITSO-CO-B
Administrative Information Branch -- APCAPS
 
"We Code, You Explode!!"
 
-------------------
 
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 15:25:38 -0400 
From: David O Hunt <dh4j+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Limiting religious speech
 
> Ok, here's a question for anti-censorship people:
> 
> How many of you are dismayed at the recent Supreme Court ruling in
> Lee v. Weisman, which held prayer at graduation ceremonies
> unconstitutional?   If this isn't stifling free speech, what is? 
> 
> Let's all raise our voices and demand that this be overturned.
 
If you want to pray at graduation, feel free.  Nobody's stopping it.  The
decision was to prevent _organized_ prayer.  e.g.  Valedictorian says
"Let us now thank the Lord who enabled us to graduate" type of thing.
 
Same thing with prayer in schools - nobody is saying you can't pray.  
What they're saying is that prayer cannot be organized and sanctioned
(purposefully or by default).
 
 
David Hunt - Graduate Slave | My mind is my own.          | Towards both a
Mechanical Engineering      | So are my ideas & opinions. | Palestinian and
Carnegie Mellon University  | <<<Use Golden Rule v2.0>>>  | Jewish homeland!
============================================================================
Email:  dh4j@cmu.edu            Working towards my "Piled Higher and Deeper"
 
Democracy is based on the theory that the people know what they want...and
they deserve to get it - GOOD AND HARD!
-------------------
 
From: fsars@acad3.alaska.edu (Allen R Sparks)
Subject: Re: Limiting religious speech
Date: 20 Aug 92 22:37:00 GMT
 
In article <UeYz6mS00XsEA6g0Vc@andrew.cmu.edu>, dh4j+@andrew.cmu.edu (David O Hunt) writes:
> Same thing with prayer in schools - nobody is saying you can't pray.  
> What they're saying is that prayer cannot be organized and sanctioned
> (purposefully or by default).
 
Hmm... doesn't freedom of speech include freedom of assembly,
organized or not?  Those are the grounds that they still allow the
Elk's Club not to admit women. === Al Sparks
-------------------
 
From: saul_sy@nutmeg.hnrc.tufts.edu (Saul Tannenbaum)
Subject: Re: Limiting religious speech
Date: 21 Aug 92 00:38:41 GMT
 
In article <1992Aug20.143700.1@acad3.alaska.edu>, fsars@acad3.alaska.edu (Allen R Sparks) writes:
> In article <UeYz6mS00XsEA6g0Vc@andrew.cmu.edu>, dh4j+@andrew.cmu.edu (David O Hunt) writes:
>> Same thing with prayer in schools - nobody is saying you can't pray.  
>> What they're saying is that prayer cannot be organized and sanctioned
>> (purposefully or by default).
> 
> Hmm... doesn't freedom of speech include freedom of assembly,
> organized or not?  Those are the grounds that they still allow the
> Elk's Club not to admit women. === Al Sparks
 
Yes. And if those at a graduation or at schoolwish to assemble themselves 
and pray, let them.
 
The issue at hand is prayer, organized by school *authorities* payed for
by your and my tax dollar, and the inherent coerciveness of that situation.
 
Get it?
 
	- Saul
-------------------
 
From: bernman@symphony.cc.purdue.edu (Bernie Hoefer)
Subject: Re: Limiting religious speech
Date: 21 Aug 92 02:35:35 GMT
Followup-To: alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk
 
In article <UeYz6mS00XsEA6g0Vc@andrew.cmu.edu> dh4j+@andrew.cmu.edu
(David O Hunt) writes:
---
>If you want to pray at graduation, feel free.  Nobody's stopping it.
>The
>decision was to prevent _organized_ prayer.  e.g.  Valedictorian says
>"Let us now thank the Lord who enabled us to graduate" type of thing.
>
>Same thing with prayer in schools - nobody is saying you can't pray.  
>What they're saying is that prayer cannot be organized and sanctioned
>(purposefully or by default).
---
 
	I thought the decision prevents SCHOOL OFFICIALS from
promoting prayer.  A school official cannot ask that a prayer
be said.
	However, does this decision not work both ways?  If
a school official cannot promote a prayer, he or she cannot
discourage it, either.  Would a valedictorian, in his or her
speech, be allowed to say a prayer or give thanks to his or her
god?  Since the valedictorian is not a school official
(he or she not on the government's payroll) it would not be
a case of "government" promoting religion.  But if the school
official tried to prevent the valedictorian from saying anything
about god in his or her speech, would not this ruling be
in favor of the valedictorian?
 
--
                            /\/B E R N   M A N\/\
 
"The more I learn, the more I realize how much I do not know..."
-------------------
 
From: ljt3@CS1.CC.Lehigh.EDU (Lewis)
Subject: Re: Limiting religious speech
Date: 21 Aug 92 03:56:56 GMT
	<1992Aug20.143700.1@acad3.alaska.edu>
 
In article <1992Aug20.143700.1@acad3.alaska.edu> fsars@acad3.alaska.edu (Allen R Sparks) writes:
>In article <UeYz6mS00XsEA6g0Vc@andrew.cmu.edu>, dh4j+@andrew.cmu.edu (David O Hunt) writes:
>> Same thing with prayer in schools - nobody is saying you can't pray.  
>> What they're saying is that prayer cannot be organized and sanctioned
>> (purposefully or by default).
>Hmm... doesn't freedom of speech include freedom of assembly,
>organized or not?  Those are the grounds that they still allow the
>Elk's Club not to admit women. === Al Sparks
 
That's for private organizations.  The problem is the separation of church
and state, and that _PUBLIC_ schools are state-funded.  They're not allowed
to sanction any religion (or group of religions).  Private schools can do 
whatever they want.
--
Lewis Tanzos - ljt3@cs1.cc.lehigh.edu - LJT3@PL122.eecs.lehigh.edu
"Under heaven, all can see beauty only because there is ugliness.
 All can know good as good only because there is evil."
-------------------
 
From: CAROL%MDLIB.DECNET@VMS.HUJI.AC.IL
Subject: RE: Computers and Academic Freedom mailing list (batch edition)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 10:59:00 GMT
 
     I have been trying for several weeks to get off the list but the listserv
no longer recognizes my e-mail address when I send in my cancellation - in
spite of the fact that it continues to send me mail.
     Please unsubscribe me
     Thanx,
          Carol
 
 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
%   Carol Fuchs-Halperin      %  BITNET%"CAROL%MDLIB.HUJI.AC.IL     %
%   Collections Development   %                                     %
%     & Systems Librarian     %  Tel: 972-2-428-8789                %
%   National Medical Library  %  P.O. Box 1172                      %
%               Jerusalem, ISRAEL  91010                            %
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
 
-------------------
 
From: clewis@ferret.ocunix.on.ca (Chris Lewis)
Subject: Re: "Computers graphic when it comes to porn"
Date: 21 Aug 92 08:29:00 GMT
Followup-To: news.admin
 
In article <pockling.714250039@sfu.ca> pockling@fraser.sfu.ca (richard pocklington) writes:
 
> 	Just in case anyone forgot, you should remember what kind
>of a "society" we live in.   The first sentence in the Canadian
>Charter of Rights and Freedoms says  
>	"Whereas Canada is founded upon principles that recognize
>	 the *supremacy of God* and the rule of law:"
 
>How do you like them apples?
 
If you're in a comparing mood, the US Declaration of Independence natters on
about Creators and "natural gods".
 
And, does the "supremacy of god" have any real effect?  Naw, the
last provincial holdout on school prayers has just abandoned the idea.
Though, some states still have it.
 
>And to refresh your memories...
 
>"33. (1) Parliament or the legislature of a province may expressly declare i an Act of Parliament or of the legislature, as the case may be, that the Act or a provision thereof shall operate notwithstanding a provision included in section 2 ..."
>
>and section 2 says...
>
>"2. Everyone has the following freedoms:
>
> (a)freedom of conscience and religion;
>*(b)freedom of thought,belief,opinion and expression,includ-  
> ing freedom of the press and other media of communication;*
> (c)freedom of peaceful assembly;and
> (d)freedom of association"
 
>Anyone want to move out?
 
Certainly not south.  The Americans have an unwritten "notwithstanding"
clause.  How else could Dr. Alvarez Machain, or violations of due process
in the anti-drug and anti-organized crime laws and other constitutional violations
be upheld?
 
Besides, if push comes to shove, I imagine that the Supreme Court of Canada
could overrule a "notwithstanding" clause if it was sufficiently silly.
Though, I suppose a difficulty could arise if the government refused to honour
the decision.  On the other hand, there's nothing preventing the US government
from trying the same thing.
-- 
Chris Lewis; clewis@ferret.ocunix.on.ca; Phone: Canada 613 832-0541
Psroff 3.0 info: psroff-request@ferret.ocunix.on.ca
Ferret list: ferret-request@ferret.ocunix.on.ca
-------------------
 
From: brian@opac.osl.or.gov (BRIAN MCBEE)
Subject: Re: Limiting religious speech
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 15:51:39 GMT
 
 
From: brian@opac.osl.or.gov
Subject: Re: Limiting religious speech
Date: 21 Aug 92 08:51:30 PST
News-Moderator: Approval required for posting to academic.freedom.talk
 
In article <57411@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>, <bernman@symphony.cc.purdue.edu> writes:
> In article <UeYz6mS00XsEA6g0Vc@andrew.cmu.edu> dh4j+@andrew.cmu.edu
> (David O Hunt) writes:
>>Same thing with prayer in schools - nobody is saying you can't pray.
>>What they're saying is that prayer cannot be organized and sanctioned
>>(purposefully or by default).
> ---
> 
> 	However, does this decision not work both ways?  If
> a school official cannot promote a prayer, he or she cannot
> discourage it, either.  Would a valedictorian, in his or her
> speech, be allowed to say a prayer or give thanks to his or her
> god?  Since the valedictorian is not a school official
> (he or she not on the government's payroll) it would not be
> a case of "government" promoting religion.  But if the school
> official tried to prevent the valedictorian from saying anything
> about god in his or her speech, would not this ruling be
> in favor of the valedictorian?
> 
> --
>                             /\/B E R N   M A N\/\
> 
> "The more I learn, the more I realize how much I do not know..."
 
I suspect that this is one of the basic contradictions in public funding of
schools.  SOMEONE has to decide what is or is not permissable. How do you
reconcile that with freedom of speech and academic freedom issues?  I suspect
that there is no non-contradictory way.  In private schools there is an easy
answer: those who pay the piper get to call the tune.  When we are all forced
to pay the piper through taxation, which of us calls the tune, and which is
forced to pay for something he finds abhorent? I sure don't have an answer.
 
-- 
 
----- Brian McBee ----- (503)378-4276 ----- brian@opac.osl.or.gov -----
----- Oregon State Library, State Library Building, Salem, OR 97310 -----
Above opinions are mine only.  You can have them if you like.
 
--------------------
--
|  William W. Arnold | warnold@eff.org | has8wwa@cabell.vcu.edu |
|   Co-moderator: Computers and Academic Freedom Mailing list   |
|          I speak for myself, not {him, her, it, eff}.         |
Newsgroups: alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk