From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Surviving
Date: 28 Jul 92 01:32:53 GMT
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison


In article <15569@star.cs.vu.nl> fjvwing@cs.vu.nl (FJ!!)
writes:

>anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:

>>[about suicide]

>>For any of you
>>currently thinking of it, my plea is: please don't.  Please
>>get help instead.  I can't tell you how relieved I am now
>>that I didn't do that to my mother and all the others who
>>love me.

>"Please don't end that utter pain you feel, I'll be hurt."

What a bizarre interpretation, or rather misinterpretation.
If you feature what I was saying as having anything at all
in common with that sentiment, you're quite mistaken.

>I know that the issues of remaining families go deeper than
>that, but it is essentially what I hear, from far more
>people than you.  It also strikes me as shit.

As you can tell, I take it rather ill that you say something
like that.  You're hearing what you apparently *want* to
hear, not what's there to be heard.

You seem to think a person's pain is the only thing in the
world that counts for anything, that anyone who is suffering
*deserves* to have the entire world revolve around their
misery.  This is by no means the case.  In fact, that sort of
self-indulgence should in most cases be pulled up short by
reality right away.

>It needs a rephrase.

Everything does, probably, so ...

>The reason for continuing to live when living hurts so bad
>you want to end the pain, should be that there might be a
>way out to make life liveable again, not that _others_ want
>you to continue.

You talk as though others have no stake, as though part of
what makes life livable [note the spelling] couldn't possibly
have anything to do with others in one's life.  That's
nonsense.  I know there are indeed many different kinds of
situations that lead a person to consider suicide, but as a
person who spent the greater part of 25 years being in that
situation, I think I can adequately testify to at least one
point of view.

So one thing you're doing is attempting to invalidate my
witness for your own reasons.  Fine with me, no one can stop
you.  But I don't have to like it, which I assuredly don't.

Making it clear to a suicidal person that you personally
face a real loss if they go through with it and trying to
secure their agreement that they will *not* carry it out are
major factors in helping a person pull themselves back from
the brink.  You're not going to get much chance to help
someone (and if you're in a position to help and you don't
help, you're as much as saying "Go ahead.") unless you can
get the person back from that brink.

Go back to what I said: "Please don't.  Get help instead." I
didn't prescribe what form of help it should be or from whom
it should come.  So your reaction seems most unwarranted to
me.  

If you want to present an alternative view so it can be
discussed, that's fine, I'm all for it, but if you're going
to call what I said shit, you can save your breath.  I think
it's a given that I know more about it than you do, having
had to struggle with myself over it as an adult for 1.25
times the time you've been alive.  So show a little respect,
migraine or no migraine.

Hope you feel better soon, too.  I've only had about half a
dozen vascular headaches in my life but that's enough to
know they are a real hell.

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
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Newsgroups: soc.motss