HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dscott@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Doug Scott)
Subject: bandwidth/profile reduction
Summary: bandwidth/profile minimization
Keywords: bandwidth,profile,minimization
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 04:51:04 GMT

Howdy!

Is anyone out there doing any studies in bandwidth/profile reductions?

Anyone have a good GPS / CM / Levy fortran code?

Anyone have Everstines test problems?

if so? contact Doug Scott -> dscott@ccu.umanitoba.ca

thanks!!

Newsgroups: sci.engr.mech
From: scasey@kean.ucs.mun.ca
Subject: flow nozzles?
Organization: Memorial University. St.John's Nfld, Canada
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 23:13:41 GMT

Hi, I'm a first term engineering student who has a little bit of 
research to do. Where would be a good place to look for info on a 
'flow nozzle' ? Thanks in advance :^)  Sue
From: daver@sunspot.ssl.berkeley.edu (David Ray)
Newsgroups: sci.engr.mech
Subject: Re: autocad news group
Date: 30 Sep 1992 00:17:10 GMT
Organization: Space Sciences Lab, UC Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: sunspot.ssl.berkeley.edu

I'm pretty sure that there isn't a newsgroup specifically for autocad,
and I think this is probably the best place to post about it since there
are lots of ME's here who presumably use autocad.(Like me)

I work in an office where everybody uses autocad, including 2 people
who are beta testers for Autodesk. However I'm the only person in the
office who knows anything about usenet and the internet. So if I can't
answer something I can ask one of the people sitting near me.
They are autocad freaks. If they found out that autocad was being discussed
on usenet, that will probably motivate them to learn usenet. <grin>

So, fire away. What are you having trouble with?
Newsgroups: sci.engr.mech
From: tran@kepler.Stanford.EDU (Hy Tran)
Subject: Re: autocad news group
Organization: stanford
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 00:49:16 GMT

In article <1aarm6INN7o9@agate.berkeley.edu>, daver@sunspot.ssl.berkeley.edu (David Ray) writes:
|> I'm pretty sure that there isn't a newsgroup specifically for autocad,
|> and I think this is probably the best place to post about it since there
|> are lots of ME's here who presumably use autocad.(Like me)

There is, but not everyone gets it:  alt.cad.autocad

-- 
Hy
tran@sun-valley.stanford.edu

Newsgroups: sci.engr.mech
From: richard@octel.com (Richard Karasik)
Subject: Re: Ladder Logic- what is it?
Organization: Octel Communications Inc., Milpitas Ca.
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 17:45:17 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.031149.8597@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> acampane@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Angelo Campanella) writes:
>
>
>              Mark Golberg  asked about ladder logic, and here's my 2 cents:
>
>The logic described by Tom Coradeschi looks like what is called "Boolean
>Algebra" in EE circles.  That's the logic that says 1 + 1 = 1,
>or yes + yes = yes, but also
>   yes + no  = no
>   no  + no  = yes,   etc.   this is known as "AND" logic.
>
>Then they talk about NOR and NAND.
>
>
>Hope this helps


Hmmm
 Having done control system design in the past, ladder logic derives
 in that arena at least from the notion of sequncing operations one step at a time,
 and the way the controllers were programmed. IE at step one if a nd B and C are
 true -put 5 volts on pin 12; step 2 wait 3 minutes; step 3 etc etc
 characteristics are that you  could bail off the ladder entirely, but couldnt jump
 around from step to step ( a primitive version of go-to-less programming).

 Aside from that -nothing else spectacular about it -used for controlling
 milling machines, mixing machines etc etc.
 Richard
-- 
|UUCP  richard@octel.com                 VOICE (HEY YOU!) or 408 321 6372
| 
|             Speaker for the dead - among them:
|                 Liberty, Justice, Freedom
From: whu@koh-sun2.usc.edu (Kuo-Ray Whu)
Newsgroups: sci.engr.control
Subject: Are there any fuzzy package or tools box for Mathematica...
Date: 2 Oct 1992 12:50:22 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: koh-sun2.usc.edu


Hi there,
   	Are there any fuzzy package or tools box for Mathematica or Matlab?
I am trying to write one. I still have class work to do, so I can only use one
of them as developing tool. Math or Matlab? Any suggestions, comments? What your 
ideal tools box or package should look like? 
 Many thanks!

kuoray
Dept. of EE
USC
whu@scf.usc.edu
From: fred@labtech.com (Fred Putnam)
Newsgroups: sci.engr.control
Subject: Re: Query on the use of software packages in control engineering
Date: 26 Sep 92 12:14:24 GMT

rhelps@bones.et.byu.edu (richard helps) writes:

>I would also be interested in the answers to these questions.
>Please post results to the nets.

>I would be interested in a coordinated package that allows me
>to collect data, model, design and control (in a laboratory).
>The final control could then be implemented separately in
>hardware and software.

Our product, Labtech Control, is well suited to this task.  It now includes
a C-Icon capability to develop any custom control algorithm as a function
block in the C language.  This function block dynamically links into the
real-time system for actual device control.  It can access the current
value of any other block in the system, as well as buffered historical
past data values for any block, and it can return multiple values.  Thus
it is well suited for multivariable control.

The Microsoft Windows version
of the software will shortly have bidirectional DDE links that will enable
similar development of control algorithms in any software packages that have
DDE link capability (these include spreadsheets as well as Visual Basic, and
a number of neural net, fuzzy logic, and expert system development packages).

for further information, requests can be sent to me at fred@labtech.com, or
call 1-800-try-labtech.

--
Fred Putnam, Labtech, fred@labtech.com, 9/26/92

Newsgroups: sci.engr.control
From: tanaka@til.til.com (Yokichi Tanaka)
Subject: Re: People do fuzzy control because they don't really know control?
Organization: Togai InfraLogic, Inc.
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 18:59:09 GMT

In article <1a2ltcINN5e6@koh-sun11.usc.edu>, whu@koh-sun11.usc.edu (Kuo-Ray Whu) writes:
|> 
|> 	Last week I came thru a prof. in control division. He said "
|> 	SOME people do fuzzy control because they don't really know control,"
|> 	Well... I am not control major,so ... How do you think?
|>	How many does the SOME mean?
|>
|> kuoray
|> Dept. of EE
|> USC
|> 
 

Hmmm.  Unfortunate.  :-(

My first reaction is "how much does *he* know about fuzzy
control?"

What is most important in control (as with most other disciplines)
is results.  If using fuzzy control yielded
results than, say, using PID control, does it matter that
you didn't solve differential equations to create your control
system.  (Maybe in school, because testing students would be 
tougher.)  And when I talk about "better results", I'm talking
not only about performance, but development time/cost, 
cost of system, ease of tuning, etc.

I've heard and seen similar comments even in editorial sections
of trade magazines such as the EE Times.  "Fuzzy control is for
engineers who couldn't handle control."  Often times these
comments seem to come from people who don't know fuzzy control.
(And they probably program in assembly language. :-) )

In addition to the consumer electronic sector, fuzzy control is
growing in automotive, process controls, and military/government.
NASA does a lot of work in fuzzy control.  Yeah, and they don't
know control. :-)

You might want to go find Bart Kosko and ask for a second
opinion. :-)   I thought he was at USC.

-- 
Yoke (Yokichi) Tanaka      Togai InfraLogic, Inc.    "fuzzy"
tanaka@til.com             Irvine, California, USA
uunet!til!tanaka           714-975-8522
In case you're wondering ... I am male.
"The more you drive, the less intelligent you are."
Newsgroups: sci.engr.control
From: erik@maui.til.com (Erik Horstkotte)
Subject: Re: People do fuzzy control because they don't really know control?
Organization: Togai InfraLogic, Inc.
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 17:08:55 GMT

In article <1a2ltcINN5e6@koh-sun11.usc.edu>, whu@koh-sun11.usc.edu
(Kuo-Ray Whu) writes:

|>Last week I came thru a prof. in control division. He said
|>"SOME people do fuzzy control because they don't really know
|>control,"  Well... I am not control major,so ... How do you think?
|>How many does the SOME mean?

Very few, in my experience.  About the only real abuse of fuzzy
control that I know of is the tendency, especially in Japan, to put
a tiny useless chunk of fuzzy logic in a consumer product, then slap
the "fuzzy" label on it.  In Japan, the presence of fuzzy logic in
a product is actually a fairly strong draw for customers.

I'm afraid that I hear this kind of comment from a lot of 
"professionals" in the field who really have *no idea* what fuzzy
control is all about.  It comes more from pure conservatism, and
from the rather old-fashioned aversion to nonlinear systems in
general, in my opinion.
-- 
Erik Horstkotte, Manager, Software Development, Togai InfraLogic,
Inc.
erik@til.til.com, uunet!til!erik - (714) 975-8522
Standard disclaimer: the preceding are my opinions, not TIL's.
Newsgroups: sci.engr.control
From: jeff@zorro.tyngsboro.ma.us (Jeff deRienzo)
Subject: Re: Query on the use of software packages in control engineering
Keywords: MatrixX, Matlab, ACSL, Easy5
Organization: ClickTech, Tyngsboro, MA
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 17:42:47 GMT

In article <29SEP199207505013@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov> focstea@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (CHRISTOPHER STEARNS) writes:
>In article <22SEP199209021442@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov>, mattern@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov (Duane Mattern (Sverdrup)) writes...
>>We recently had The Mathwork's SimuLink in for an evaluation.
>> 
>>Duane Mattern	(mattern@mars.lerc.nasa.gov)	(216)433-8186
>>Sverdrup @ NASA Lewis, M/S 77-1, 21000 Brookpark Rd., Cleveland, OH 44135
>
>Just a clarification, but I believe the Mathwork's simulation package that 
>is integrated with Matlab is called Simulab.
>
>Chris
>
Further clarification may help.  hmmm...  You're both right. sort of

I used to work for The MathWorks.  I wrote the Motif UI for the original
 version which, at the time we announced it, was called SimLab.  Once
 we got round to shipping it the name was changed to SimuLab.  The
 name was changed recently to SimuLink and persists to this day.  All
 three names represent the same product, albeit in different versions
 with the newest being SimuLink.

	Jeff
---
	jeff@zorro.tyngsboro.ma.us

Newsgroups: sci.engr.control
From: pvr@argo.rice.edu (PVR Narasimha Rao)
Subject: Re: Fuzzy logic references wanted
Keywords: fuzzy logic references
Organization: Rice University
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 03:04:34 GMT


In article <4251@svin09.info.win.tue.nl>, luit1@wsinfo11.info.win.tue.nl (Wim Jan
sen) writes:

|> erik@maui.til.com (Erik Horstkotte) writes:

|> >As far as whether I regard fuzzy logic as part of AI or not, the
|> >answer is "not really."  The main reason for this is that I'm one
|> >of the dying breed that still thinks that AI is the search for ways
|> >to make computers think *like humans.*  I don't think I've ever
|> >heard anyone seriously claim that humans use fuzzy logic internally,
|> >although fuzzy logic does model certain aspects of human thinking
|> >fairly well.
|>
|> I have to disagree with you here. Although humans do not use fuzzy logic in
|> the process of *thinking*, they do use it in the process of *thinking
|> about*. My point is that you are absolutely correct, if you say that neural
|> networks have not much in common with fuzzy logic. However, fuzzy logic is
|> a very good model for reasoning of humans.
|>  I always though that the main difference between a machine and a human was
|> the accuracy with which they work. Computers calculate with discrete
|> quantities, whereas humans use inaccurate (fuzzy) measurements.


For those interested, there is a nice interview with Prof L.A.Zadeh in which
he talks about AI v fuzzy in detail in

"Fuzzy Sets and Applications: selected papers by L.A.Zadeh" (eds R.R.Yager,
S.Ovchinnikov, R.M.Tong, H.T.Nguyen), John Wiley & Sons, 1987.

He echoes the sentiments expressed above. To quote the beginning of the
interview, "the tools researches use to probe certain AI problems, says
Berkeley professor, are too precise to deal with the "fuzziness" of the real
world."


|> Wim Jansen


--------
P.V.R. Narasimha Rao
Newsgroups: sci.engr.control
From: erik@maui.til.com (Erik Horstkotte)
Subject: Re: Fuzzy Logic and memory
Organization: Togai InfraLogic, Inc.
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 16:44:59 GMT

In article <1992Sep29.144132.8473@csi.jpl.nasa.gov>,
mwette@csi.jpl.nasa.gov (Matt Wette) writes:
|> 
|> I've had a very limited exposure to Fuzzy Logic.  However, from
|> what
|> I've seen Fuzzy Logic is memoryless.  This seems to be a severe
|> limitation.  What is done to rectify the situation.  One
|> possibility
|> is to use state estimators.  Do others exist.  I could imagine
|> that
|> someone would want to use a dynamic logic function which maps the
|> input sets to the output sets.  Is this done?

Generally speaking, yes, fuzzy logic is memoryless.  However, you
can use feedback variables to add memory.  We've done this in a few
cases, mainly to track unobservable parameters in a system being
controlled.
-- 
Erik Horstkotte, Manager, Software Development, Togai InfraLogic,
Inc.
erik@til.til.com, uunet!til!erik - (714) 975-8522
Standard disclaimer: the preceding are my opinions, not TIL's.
Newsgroups: sci.engr.control
From: pvr@argo.rice.edu (PVR Narasimha Rao)
Subject: Re: Info. on Control guy
Keywords:   W. M. Wonham
Organization: Rice University
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 05:08:31 GMT


In article <BvH89o.2x1@ecf.toronto.edu>, rairan@ecf.toronto.edu (RAI Ranjan) writes:


|>   Has anyone out there ever heard of W. M. Wonham, a control theoretician
|> up here at U of T.  What has he done that's so special?


There is an area called "linear geometric control" that was developed during
late 60s and early 70s. He's the numero uno of that area. He solved the
following problems for linear systems along with some other researchers:

1. Disturbance decoupling problem
2. Noninteracting control problem (or input/output decoupling problem)
3. RPIS (Regulation Problem with Internal Stability) etc

He wrote a book on the subject that was/is used as a text book in some univs.

[Those works were later extended to nonlinear systems and an approach making
use of differential geometry was developed during late 70s and 80s. The RPIS
problem solved by Prof Wonham in early 70s was solved for nonlinear systems
by two European researchers as recently as in 1991!]


|>   I'd ask him myself, but he scares the heck out of me.


Are you sure he doesn't read this newsgroup? :-)

(For example, Prof Eduardo Sontag who posted articles to this newsgroup is a
very well-known researcher in the area of nonlinear control.)


|> Ranjan Rai                             <rairan@ecf.toronto.edu> 


--------
P.V.R. Narasimha Rao
Newsgroups: sci.engr.control,comp.ai,comp.ai.neural-nets
From: parish@cactus.org (Tom Parish)
Subject: On the issue of creating comp.fuzzy
Followup-To: sci.cosci.engr.control
Keywords: fuzzy logic, newsgroup
Organization: Capital Area Central Texas UNIX Society, Austin, Tx
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 14:04:23 GMT

On the issue having a comp.fuzzy newsgroup ...
 
What I have noticed this year is a tremendous rise interest in
fuzzy logic.  Just look at the number of magazine articles you seen 
written in Computer Design, EE-Times etc. From speaking with the 
editors they are jumping with excitement because the reader 
response to these articles is higher than any other subject.  Tom 
Williams Sr. Editor at Computer Design decided to ask his
management to fund a conference next year dedicated to fuzzy logic
technology and applications.
 
Next year there are  three major conferences on fuzzy logic:
IEEE Fuzz will merge with neural networks for a major event in 
March  93, July 93 Computer Design has their event, and EE Times 
is planning one also.  All three will be in the San Francisco Bay
area.  I'm sure there are others ...  
 
Other indicators are simple enough to see. The traffic on ai.comp
and comp.ai.neural-networks is growing with fuzzy related questions.
Everyone seems compelled to cross post fuzzy questions not knowing
where to put them.  And you know darn well that for every posting
there are thousands of folks just reading. Interest seems high
from the international community at large - Canada, Europe, US, 
Japan ...
 
Togai, Inform, Aptronix, Motorola, VLSI ... the list goes on and
on with new companies deciding to make a commitment to enter the
market place.  Our BBS in San Jose (FuzzyNet) stays pretty
busy with folks downloading application notes and asking technical
questions.
 
I think its time we move ourselves to a dedicated area and so we
can dig more deeply into a variety of fuzzy logic based technology
issues.
                                      Fuzzy             Crisp
                                 -            1.0 | True
                                   -           .9 |
  A P T R O N I X    I N C.          -         .7 |
The Fuzzy Logic Technology Co.         -       .5 |
                                         -     .3 |
TEL: 512-331-0813   parish@cactus.org      -   .1 |
FAX: 512-331-0841                            -  0 | False


Newsgroups: sci.engr.control
From: stote@tomcat.den.mmc.com (M. Stote)
Subject: Re: Need optimization help
Keywords: models, tune, MatLab, practical
Organization: Martin Marietta Astronautics Group
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 14:22:55 GMT

If you post a few more details about what your plant looks like dynamically,
and what you are trying to achieve with closed-loop control, someone will
have a better chance of pointing you in a profitable direction.

--
Mike Stoughton
stote@den.mmc.com
Newsgroups: sci.engr.control
From: bej1960@rigel.tamu.edu (JUST, BRADLEY E)
Subject: Re: Address of Reza Langari anfd his FUZZY research group..
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 17:31:00 GMT

In article <1a2l9bINN5e2@koh-sun11.usc.edu>, whu@koh-sun11.usc.edu (Kuo-Ray Whu) writes...
> 
>Keywords: 
> 
>Hi there,
>	Does somebody know Reza Langari in Texas A&M and his Fuzzy Research group?
>	He "is supposed " to be there, but I don't know which department he is in.
>	I cannot find him in A&M's catalog 91-92 neither.
>	Would someone out there tell me WHERE HE IS?
>	Thank in advance.
> 
>kuoray whu
>whu@scf.usc.edu


Dr. Langari is indeed here at Texas A&M.  He is part of the Systems & Controls
Division of the Mechanical Engineering Dept.  He can be reached by writing to

Dr. Reza Langari
Mechanical Engineering Dept.
Texas A&M University
College Station, TX  77843

I don't have his phone number right now, but send me E-Mail and I will get it
for you.

Brad Just
From: europa@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (r.j.capik)
Newsgroups: sci.engr.control
Subject: Need optimization help
Keywords: models, tune, MatLab, practical
Date: 29 Sep 92 21:46:55 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbnewsh.1992Sep29.214655.22729
Distribution: usa
Organization: AT&T


Help. I need a pointer to the next step. 
I have a system that I need to control with a feedback loop.
I need to do a little bit more than stick a PID box in the
loop and push the "self-tune" button. I have the MatLab control
and system ID toolboxes, and can thus derive models for the
system. Problem is, I don't remember how to apply the information
from these tools to tune the system. Come to think of it, I don't
remember doing anything practical like this in school, but that
was long before tools like those above existed.
Are there any good books out there on the practical side of
control systems? 

Ron Capik  AT&T Bell Labs, Holmdel NJ     lotus@hogpe.att.com
Xref: sparky sci.engr.control:84 comp.object:3750 comp.graphics:10087 comp.lang.c:14214 comp.lang.c++:14249 comp.lang.fortran:3771 comp.windows.x:17211 comp.windows.misc:1511 sci.engr:2068 comp.software-eng:3561
From: mwette@csi.jpl.nasa.gov (Matt Wette)
Subject: Fuzzy Logic and memory
Originator: mwette@mr-ed
Organization: Jet Propulsion Lab
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 14:41:32 GMT


I've had a very limited exposure to Fuzzy Logic.  However, from what
I've seen Fuzzy Logic is memoryless.  This seems to be a severe
limitation.  What is done to rectify the situation.  One possibility
is to use state estimators.  Do others exist.  I could imagine that
someone would want to use a dynamic logic function which maps the
input sets to the output sets.  Is this done?

Matt
-- 
mwette@csi.jpl.nasa.gov
From: sontag@control.rutgers.edu (Eduardo Sontag)
Newsgroups: sci.engr.control
Subject: Re: Global stabilty dependent on constant input?
Date: 2 Oct 92 03:13:39 GMT
Reply-To: sontag@hilbert.rutgers.edu
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.
Cc: nroddier@noao.edu

In article <1992Sep30.185418.19486@noao.edu> nroddier@noao.edu (Nicolas Roddier) writes:

   From: nroddier@noao.edu (Nicolas Roddier)
   Newsgroups: sci.engr.control
   Date: 30 Sep 92 18:54:18 GMT
   Sender: news@noao.edu
   Organization: National Optical Astronomy Observatories, Tucson, AZ, USA
   Lines: 20
   Nntp-Posting-Host: gemini.tuc.noao.edu

   Hello control people!

   I'm wondering if the global asymptoticaly stability of a system can depend
   on a constant input.

   In other word, I have the system Xdot = f(x), f(0)=0 that is globally
   assympotically stable around the origin. Now, what can I say about the
   system Xdot = f(x) + C, where C is a constant vector. I would tend
   to think that the equilibrium shifts from the origin to another location
   but still has an infinitely large bassin of attraction, this true for
   linear system. How does it sound when f() is nonlinear?

   I'd appreciate any refence and comments/ideas. Thank you.

   Nick Roddier

try:  Xdot = -tanh(x)  [or any other f(x) bounded and so that xf(x)<0], dim=1.
Add a big constant and everything goes off to infinity.
By the way, there is lot being written nowadays about such issues (in less
trivial cases)... look under "input to state stability", "BIBO stability"...
in SCL, IEEE/TAC, MCSS...
-- 
Eduardo D. Sontag
Department of Mathematics
Rutgers Center for Systems and Control (SYCON)
Rutgers University
New Brunswick, NJ 08903, USA

(Phone: (908)932-3072; dept.: (908)932-2390, FAX: (908)932-5530)
sontag@hilbert.rutgers.edu
Newsgroups: sci.engr.control
From: tanaka@til.til.com (Yokichi Tanaka)
Subject: Re: Fuzzy logic references wanted
Organization: Togai InfraLogic, Inc.
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 20:02:37 GMT

>Perhaps you are aware that the inventor (Prof. Lotfi Zadeh) is Iranian.
>Unfortunately, it seems that may have had something to do with it.
>
> - Farzin Mokhtarian
>   farzin@apollo3.ntt.jp
>                 

I think everyone's response has said it all.  Just looking at
it from another viewpoint, I am a Japanese-American and am
deeply familiar with the two cultures.  There is just as much
(if not more) racism in Japan (where fuzzy took off) as there
is here.

My (less than) 2 cents worth.

-- 
Yoke (Yokichi) Tanaka      Togai InfraLogic, Inc.    "fuzzy"
tanaka@til.com             Irvine, California, USA
uunet!til!tanaka           714-975-8522
In case you're wondering ... I am male.
"The more you drive, the less intelligent you are."
Newsgroups: sci.engr.control