HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hes@unity.ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Advice Wanted:  CC
Date: 27 Sep 92 00:17:39 GMT
Organization: North Carolina State University

In article <Bv5Lu1.Mr4@mail.boi.hp.com> kmarko@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com (Kurt Marko) writes:
#In article > kmarko@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com (Kurt Marko) writes:
# ...  I'd like to get another
##handgun to do double duty as both highly portable weapon suitable for
##concealed carry, defense use; yet also be somewhat fun and accurate to
##shoot on the range.  I hope these aren't conflicting desires.   ...

  It seems obvious to me (IMHO:-) that in the choice of a CC defensive
weapon, that there should be *no* compromises made in the direction
of "fun".
# ...
#* .38spl or .357 Magnum snub nose (2").  ...
#* 9mm, 40SW or .45 compact.  I'm not sure if anyone makes something in
#  one of these as small as a snubby revolver,  ...

  I've been surprised as to how concealable a flat SA can be - so I
suggest looking at actual concealability rather than simply being
concerned about size.

#* .380.  Certainly the most compact defense SA,  ...

  This caliber may not be of sufficient power/effectiveness for your use.

  This may be a good time to recommend a book which is all about
the choice of a gun and ammo for defensive use.

Business Partners
(Subtitle) The Best Pistol/Ammunition Combinations for Personal Defense 
Peter Alan Kasler
Paladin Press, Boulder Colorado 1991
ISBN 0-87364-609-6  6" x 9" 187 + ix pp hardbound

  The author of this book takes this choice very seriously, and I
suggest that you also should do that.  (Yes, I know the "First Law
of Gunfighting", be this is a case of *planning* what to carry.)

--henry schaffer  n c state univ

P.S.  My review of this book is in a few archive locations, or I'd
be glad to send you a copy unpon request.
From: harris@u.washington.edu (Jeff Harris)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: 9mm:what not to buy
Date: 30 Sep 92 01:57:38 GMT


	I had your same problem about two months ago ie. couldn't make up my
mind between 9 mms. After reading Rec.guns for a month (more confusion), I
decided to visit a local range that rents guns. I had a nice conversation
with the range master after trying about six different models. I was
interested in the Taurus, but they didn't have one. It seems that they
only lasted about 2 weeks, so after a half-dozen guns, they stopped buying
them. They have a lifetime warranty, and you will need it! Plan on about
6-8 weeks of no gun/fun. He also didn't recommend the Colt All American 2000 
"they're crap" although they did still have one in working order. The best
lived pistols they owned: the Glocks. Eveyone wants to shoot one, so they
run about 10,000 rounds a month through them until they break (about a
year). I shot  about 100 rnds through a 17 and another 50 through a 23, and
fell in love with the 17. They were the most accurate guns I shot that day
and bought one about a week later for $399 in Seattle. Sorry I can't help
you with the rest of the list, but I hope this helps.

---
harris@u.washington.edu
From: wwarf@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Wayne J. Warf)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Are there restrictions on carry in public places
Date: 30 Sep 92 11:28:01 GMT
Organization: Indiana University

In article <laird.717731702@stable.ecn.purdue.edu> laird@stable.ecn.purdue.edu (Kyler Laird) writes:
#kmarko@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com (Kurt Marko) writes:
#
##Note also, as
##someone has previously mentioned, that Federal law prohibits carrying
##firearms in airports (which are under Federal [FAA] jurisdiction), and
##other federally regulated buildings or areas (I'm not sure what the Forest
##Service's policies are).
#
#Hmmm...not that it is a definite indicator of law, but I had my pistol
#taken at an airport (long story) by security/Indy police, and it was
#given back to me fairly quickly without mention of the illegality of
#carrying it in the airport - just not to the terminals.

It's only illegal to carry into the security areas. If you read the signs
posted, it spells this out clearly. I've asked a lawyer and he says that
Indiana law allows me to carry anywhere in the state that is not
superceded by federal law such as federal installations. Most Post Office
and federal building lobbies will have signs spelling out the law in
these cases also.

-- 
 +--------------------------------------------------------------------+
 | Wayne J. Warf -- WWARF@ucs.indiana.edu -- I speak for myself only  |
 |"Government is like fire, a dangerous servant and a fearful master" |
 +--------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: lvc@cbvox1.att.com (Lawrence V Cipriani)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Silencer questions
Date: 2 Oct 92 11:39:24 GMT
Organization: Ideology Busters, Inc.

In article <1992Oct1.065925.11126@ncsu.edu> jsjackso@eos.ncsu.edu (JONATHAN STONE JACKSON) writes:
#
#  Does anyone know the legal status of silencers in North Carolina?  I would
#assume that you could not just go into a store and buy one, but are there 
#any ways to get around that (i.e. I need it so that my neighbors won't get
#pissed).

According to the 1991 Machine Gun Dealers Bible all Class III firearms
may be privately owned in North Carolina.  A permit from the county, in
addition to the federal regulations (see a local Class III dealer for
all the gory details) are all that is needed.

You may have great difficulty in getting local law enforcement
to sign off on the federal paperwork.

#Are they legal only for certain guns (kinda stupid question,
#but you never know; I need one for an HK-91)? 

If it's a detachable silencer you can put it on whatever firearm
you want (according to federal law).

#  Also, is it legal to buy a select-fire receiver in NC (so as to convert 
#a 91 into a G3[temporarily])? If not, are there any devices which could up 
#the rate of fire?

This is probably legal, but I'm not 100% certain.
-- 
Larry Cipriani, att!cbvox1!lvc or lvc@cbvox1.att.com
From: bellcore!bae.bae.bellcore.com!wind@uunet.UU.NET (Wind Chen)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Citizenship ?
Date: 6 Oct 92 01:02:27 GMT
Organization: Bell Communications Research

I live in NJ, therefore speak for NJ only.
You apply your firearms ID thru. local (municipal) PD.  Local PD
send forms to State Police to check your record, and base on the 
result issue you the firearms ID.  Local PD keeps the record of 
your application, State police only runs the checK.
A legal alien on permanent resident status has the same right as
a Citizen, as far as the firearms ID is concerned.  Procedure is
the same and on the form, there is even a box for you to check
for your Citizenship status.

# wb@mtqua.att.com (Werner Baumgartner) writes:
# Is being a Citizen of the USA a prerequisite to being permitted to legally
# own or purchase firearms ? What standing does a legal alien on per
# resident status have in this regard ? Are these Federal issues or local,
# State, municipal issues 
#
# Any information on this subject would be appreciated.
# 
__________________________________________________________________
Wind Y. Chen                   |      eMail: wind@bae.bellcore.com
_______________________________|__________________________________
From: toddc@spot.tv.tek.com (Todd Carlson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: AMT Automag II
Date: 30 Sep 92 23:14:42 GMT
Article-I.D.: tvnews.1992Sep30.223137.26562
Organization: Tektronix, Inc.  Beaverton, Oregon

##Does anyone have any first-hand knowledge or experience with this particular
##gun?  I've been looking for one for a while, and just ran across one locally.
##Amazingly enough, the store only wants $269 for it, less than a Ruger Mk. II!
##Any opinions/warnings/encouragement would be appreciated...
#

A good friend of mine (Now one of L.A.'s finest) bought one with the 
six inch barrel about two years ago.  He had a problem, in that there
are specific loads of .22 Mag that are hot enough to run the action.
If you get the wrong stuff, you have to manually run the slide.
(There was an insert in the box saying something like "Only use
loads with Rolled powder like CCI's xxxxxx; not flaked powder")

But, with the correct loads, it was a LOT OF FUN TO SHOOT!!!  It seemed
as loud as my .357, and it emitted a huge flame about one foot out of
the muzzle.

As far as accuracy, I don't remember being too impressed, but for
plinking, it was like having Robocop as a partner.

                                      TC

*********************************************************************
Todd Carlson                      |  Nike vs. Anti-Drug Campaign:
toddc@tv.TV.TEK.COM               | 
Computer Resources Coordinator    |  "Just Say No"  or  "Just Do It!"
TV Division, Tektronix Inc.       | 
Beaverton, Oregon   U.S.A.        |  I, for one, am a little confused.
**********************************************************************
From: gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Are there restrictions on carry in public places
Date: 4 Oct 92 02:27:04 GMT
Organization: U.S. Army Ballistic Research Lab, APG MD.


In article <1992Oct1.162818.9946@phx.mcd.mot.com> mcdphx!systemname!gcall@enuucp.eas.asu.edu (Glen Call) writes:
#Gee, I've known several people to carry small arms into banks for the purpose of
#storage in safety deposit boxes.  Is this then illegal?

Loaded?
From: mbehrens@barqs.amd.com (Mikael Behrens)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: What does Magnum mean?
Date: 30 Sep 92 23:14:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: dvorak.9209301808.AA07100
Organization: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.; Austin, Texas

In article <1992Sep30.041315.29178@cs.umb.edu> dd@ra.cs.umb.edu (Dave  
Dunbrack) writes:
| In article <1992Sep27.134018.29891@ke4zv.uucp> wa4mei!ke4zv!gary@gatech.edu  
(Gary Coffman) writes:
| #Magnum is simply a *marketing* term. It's applied somewhat haphazardly
| #to various cartridges reputed to be "powerful". Note for example that
| #a .22 Hornet is more powerful than a .22 Magnum and both are hotter than
| #a .22 Long Rifle, and all three are much milder than a .22-250. So the
| #magnum description is fairly meaningless other than as a *name* for a
| #particular cartridge.
| #
| 
|   As someone else already noted, in handgun cartridges "magnum" usually
| means "longer and stronger". While this could possibly be construed
| as a marketing ploy (but you won't catch *me* loading a .38 or a .45 to
| the pressure levels found in a .357 or .44 mag), the same cannot be
| said of the term "magnum" as applied to shotshells. In this case the term
| means the shell has more *shot* (not more powder) than a standard shell,
| and is generally longer by about 1/4".

No, you're both wrong.  Here's Webster's definition:

mag num \'mag-nem\ n
[L, neut. of magnus great]
(1788)
:a large wine bottle holding about 1.5 liters 

See?  It doesn't have anything to do with guns at all!

Mikael

[MODERATOR:  And all this time I thought we were discussing my mail alias...]
From: forda@gtephx.UUCP (Andrew Ford @ AGCS, Phoenix, Arizona)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .38 cleaning brush for 9mm?
Date: 2 Oct 92 21:23:30 GMT
Organization: gte

In article <9209270431.AA16660@news.cis.ohio-state.edu>, rwb@borg.VI.RI.CMU.EDU (Robert Berger) writes:
# 
# Can a .38 cleaning brush (Hoppes) be used to clean a 9 MM?

Yes, and a .357 magnum and a .380 ACP.  

The nominal bullet diameters (if I remember corectly) are 

.38         .357
.357        .357
380         .355
9mm         .355

(If I'm wrong, post it -- email to me probably won't get on the net.)

-- 
"25 States allow anyone to buy a gun, strap it on, and walk down the street with
no permit of any kind: some say it's crazy.  However, 4 out of 5 US murders are 
committed in the other half of the country: so who is crazy?"   -  Andrew Ford
gtephx!forda@enuucp.eas.asu.edu  OR  !uunet!samsung!romed!enuucp!gtephx!forda
From: leem@jpl-devvax.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Lee Mellinger)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Baretta 92
Date: 30 Sep 92 01:58:46 GMT
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory (NASA)

In article <yL7NRB1w164w@upchrch.UUCP> upchrch!joel@peora.sdc.ccur.com (Joel Upchurch  ) writes:
:miles@ms.uky.edu (Stephen D. Grant) writes:
:
:They did as I recall, but the Beretta was cheaper. Maybe they should
:have done a test where they dropped in in a mudpuddle and then fired
:it without cleaning it. Of course if they did that, then they wouldn't
:have adopted the M-16. :-)
:joel@peora.ccur.com {uiucuxc,hoptoad,petsd,ucf-cs}!peora!joel (407) 859-0982

Actually, the Army did do that..sort of.  One of the standard tests
was to put each pistol in a cement mixer with a standard mixture of mud
and tumble it for a specified period of time.  After that, the outside
was washed and then the gun was shot in a course of fire.

Lee

"Mit Pulver und Blei, die Gedanken sind frei."

|Lee F. Mellinger                 Caltech/Jet Propulsion Laboratory - NASA
|4800 Oak Grove Drive, Pasadena, CA 91109 818/354-1163  FTS 792-1163     
|leem@jpl-devvax.JPL.NASA.GOV
:
From: haase@vogon.uchicago.edu (Mark Haase)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: IL/IN regulations
Date: 4 Oct 92 02:26:59 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Mathematics, U. of Chicago

Dear Users,

I recently discovered (as a new resident of Illinois) that some target
ranges (possibly all) in Illinois require an Illinois firearms ID card
to utilize their facilities and to *rent* are firearm.  Does anyone know
whether Indiana has similar such regulations?  Moreover, does anyone know
of any ranges that exist ouside Chicago, off 65, or possibly in the
city of Indianapolis?  Just interested in any recommendations.

Thanks very much.

Sincerely,

Chris Haase
From: mcdphx!systemname!gcall@enuucp.eas.asu.edu (Glen Call)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: HELP: 9mm vs .380.  Which to buy?
Date: 1 Oct 92 13:04:39 GMT
Organization: Motorola Computer Group Marketing


Price is but one consideration.  Other factors are:

	Performance (aka. stopping power.  KE is just one indicator)
	Accuracy (which some rank higher than the former)
	Compatibility with shooter (easy to handle, felt recoil, etc.)
	Ease of carry (open and concealed)
	Magazine count
	Ammo cost

9mm is considered by many to be an adequate man-stopper.  .380 is marginal,
especially if shot placement is disturbed by stress.  The Ruger 9mm auto's
are known for their durability, allowing the choice of very hot loads.

As for accuracy, it depends on the context.  In the tight confines of a home,
it's probably a wash.  On the street, _I_ would opt for the Ruger vs the
Colt/Beretta .380's, mainly for the extra barrel length.  Others might find the
felt recoil of the 9mm to be too much and opt for the .380.  They would
probably therefore exhibit better accuracy with the 380's (flinching is a
common symptom of "too much" gun).

As for compatibility, that's up to you.  Many people find a full size combat
handgun like the P85 easier to handle (in 9mm) than the compact 380's.  Mass of
the weapon is a factor in felt recoil.  Others are intimidated by the noise,
etc.  Try several for yourself, if possible.

The compact 380's shine when you consider ease of carry.  One of the primary
reasons for choosing the lighter caliber is the weapons are generally smaller
and lighter.  I once had an 11 shot .380 that fit easily in a jacket pocket. 
Concealing a full size 9mm is more tricky.  Even open carry is more difficult -
the heavier weapons can be a bit much for long hikes.

The Ruger 9mm's accept >15 rounds.  Most 380's take between 7 & 11 rounds. 
This probably isn't an issue, unless you're caught in a riot, etc.

Ammo for .380 is very comparable (at least around here) to the 9mm in price.
Demand has driven 9mm prices down.  This is an important factor if you're going
plinking alot.

Which is better?  That's up to you to decide.  If you really want to make an
informed choice, frequent some of the pistol ranges and either rent some of
these weapons or ask if you might try someone else's.  Most of us like to "turn
on" new shooters to our "toys".  (Flames to /dev/null on this one).

Good luck!  Post your findings!
Glen
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Glen Call                          Technical Marketing Systems Engineer
Motorola Computer Systems, Inc.    gcall@phx.mcd.mot.com or mcdapps!gcall
M/S DW212                          phone: (602) 438-3408
2900 S. Diablo Way                 pager: 1-602-244-3252 Pager#2818 (digital)
Tempe, AZ 85282                    FAX:   (602) 438-3534

DISCLAIMER: I DON'T SPEAK FOR MOTOROLA.  THE ENCLOSED IS SOLELY MY OPINION.
From: kunz@avalon.physik.unizh.ch (kunz peter)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Need help/info on mini-guns (Vulcan cannons)
Date: 2 Oct 92 16:57:51 GMT
Organization: Informatik Club Uni Zurich

In article <9209202200.aa24215@refrig.UUCP> todd@refrig.dixie.com (Todd H.) writes:
#urbina@novax.llnl.gov writes:
#
#I shot the mini-gun last shoot, and it's a kick.  The mini-gun was what 
#was in T-2, but like the other fellow said, the sound was all wrong.  The
#
check out PREDATOR

#Really if you're going to make a model, you need to either see and hear one
#of these beasts, or get a goood picture.  If you'll send me another email,
#I'll see if I can dig up the address for Knob Creek Range - they sell videos
#of each of thier shoots, and all of them have good minigun shooting scenes.
#
what's the price of these videos? any homevideos being made? :-)
mightr wanna check out dillon's machine gun magic for 19 bucks or so



cu
-pete


-- 
Peter J. Kunz		Home:		(+41) 061 721 75 56 (Weekends)
P.O. Box 315		Business:	(+41) 01  261 35 74 (Weekdays)
4106 Therwil		Fax:		(+41) 061 324 71 88
Switzerland		E-Mail:		pkunz@amiga.physik.unizh.ch
From: jd@latcs1.lat.oz.au (John Dimogotsis)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: sniper rifle in 'Navy seals' movie?
Date: 5 Oct 92 12:47:08 GMT
Organization: Comp Sci, La Trobe Uni, Australia


	Does anyone know what sniper rifle was used by the 'God' sniper in
the movie 'Navy seals' staring 'charlie sheen' ? It looked as if it took 
.50 cal ammo, or something as huge (made big holes in the wall!).
	Also the sights on this weapon allowed the user to see the 'thermal
images' of the enemy behind a wall in a night scene, is this possible?
	Thanks in advance.
								jd.
From: dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu (Donald R. Newcomb)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Citizenship ?
Date: 3 Oct 92 20:37:44 GMT
Article-I.D.: ra.1992Oct3.164424.26942
Organization: University of Southern Mississippi

In article <1992Oct2.221840.27024@cbnewsj.cb.att.com> wb@mtqua.att.com (Werner Baumgartner) writes:
#Is being a Citizen of the USA a prerequisite to being permitted to legally
#own or purchase firearms ? What standing does a legal alien on permanent
#resident status have in this regard ? Are these Federal issues or local,
#State, municipal issues ?
#
Werner,
  As with all other issues in a federal republic there are both Federal
and local legal issues. I can't answer questions about state and local 
laws in your area. My reading of US Federal law (I am not a Lawyer) tells
me that if one is a legal resident alien in the US, he will fall under
the same regulations as a citizen. Non-resident aliens may purchase a
firearm with a leter from their embassy. The letter must state the
type of firearm he may purchase.

  If you need more legal information, please call a Lawyer.


-- 

Donald R. Newcomb
dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu
newcomb@usmcp6.bitnet
From: x90hornbach1@gw.wmich.edu
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: SKS SKS SKS SKS SKS
Date: 2 Oct 92 11:39:22 GMT
Organization: Western Michigan University

If anyone is considering purchasing an SKS, GO FOR IT!
I just got mine and love it.  I'd say for the price it's the best buy on the
market today.  Here's what I got into mine:

1992 production new SKS: $87.95 (dealer price)
Folding stock (pinned, of course): $32.00
30 rd fixed magazine: $12.95
1200 rnds non corrosive ammo: $99.95

= A whole lotta fun!

The fixed mag is easy enough to load, and I wouldn't have bothered to pin the
stock if I didn't have a FFL. (I called the local BATF to ask them about the
stock and clip issue--the agent I talked to had never heard of a SKS and had no
idea what I was talking about.  He said something about "calling Washington". 
I never heard back from him)_

I took it out and ran about 350 rnds through without a hitch.  The only
problem was waiting for the barrel to cool off in between 30 round bursts!

I was pretty impressed with the accuracy as well.  I managed to hit a small
apple at about 50 yds.  (not bad for me)

Anyway, if anyone is looking for firearm that is fun and economical to shoot,
the SKS gets two thumbs up from me.

John Hornbach
From: wwarf@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Wayne J. Warf)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Gas-Operated vs. Delayed Roller-Locked (was Re: H&K 91 INFO.
Date: 27 Sep 92 00:17:26 GMT
Organization: Indiana University

In article <1992Sep24.130720.24424@news.uit.no> steffen@stud.cs.uit.no (Steffen Baeroe) writes:
#In article <9209222230.AA15361@leland.Stanford.EDU>, loia@leland.Stanford.EDU (David Loia) writes:
#|> 
#|> I read a chapter from "Guns of the Third Riech" describing the development
#|> of the German MP/Stg-45 assault rifle.  The author went into great detail
#|> describing the delayed roller-locked mechanism and it how this design
#|> migrated to Spain after WWII and later returned to Germany as the G3 and HK-91.
#|> 
#|> My impression of the delayed-roller-locked action is that it is another
#|> instance of incredible German engineering.  It is simple, inexpensive to
#|> manufacture and proven to be extremely reliable.
#|> 
#|> No gas port needed to attach to barrel nor gas piston/actuating rod to
#|> foul up.  How come roller-locked design was or is not being used by
#|> manufacturers other than Heckler & Koch ?
#|> 
#|> Do gas-operated actions work better than delayed roller-locked ?
#|> 
#|> Maybe we there are some HK91 and FAL owners who can tell us why their's is
#|> better than the other.
#|> 
#
#
#The delayed-roller-locked action is NOT a German invention. In The beginning 
#of the fifties SPAIN made their CETME-rifle with the delayed-roller-locked action
#system. H&K got a licence to produce a version of it. That version became the
#H&K G3 rifle. There is only very small difference between the CETME and G3.

The German WW2 machinegun, the MG-42 <and the BW standard MG-3>, are
short-recoil roller locking systems. The Wehrmacht appartently found
a prototype machinegun when they overran Poland and copied it. The
original patent for the roller lock system belongs to a Polish citizen,
Edward Stecke. The Stg45 was under development by a Mauser design team,
the core of which migrated to France then Spain after the European Allied
victory. They continued to perfect their design under the Madrid Center
for the technical study of special materials (CETME) of which H&K was
one of the original backers. H&K licensed the CETME through a CETME
affiliate in the Netherlands and improved the design to meet the
-- 
 +--------------------------------------------------------------------+
 | Wayne J. Warf -- WWARF@ucs.indiana.edu -- I speak for myself only  |
 |"Government is like fire, a dangerous servant and a fearful master" |
 +--------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: ses@hpfcls.fc.hp.com (Steve Speer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Night vision equipment
Date: 30 Sep 92 01:58:56 GMT

# I'm looking for a source of low light/no light vision equipment
# (binoculars, telescopic sights);
# addresses, phone numbers, and product overviews are most welcomed.
# 
# Thanks,
# Gerald
# ---

I'm interested too, so please post.  I've heard that night vision scopes
can be picked up in Germany (black market?) via. departing Soviet troops
for a pretty good price.  I'd like to have something that made hunting
coyotes at night practical without a portable light.  Any thoughts?
I'd consider putting together a package deal with anyone else interested.
Thanks for any oppinions/info any of you have.

	-Steve