HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: misra@festus.ksu.ksu.edu (Boo!)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Re: Supporting Pakistani Teams
Date: 13 Apr 1992 14:50:29 -0500
Organization: Kansas State University
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: festus.ksu.ksu.edu

In article <1992Apr12.145657.3759@iscsvax.uni.edu> mohammed4416@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:
>isn"t there some reason to think India evil?  Think about the policies like
>distribution of water of the Ganges, or the Chacma situition in Hill Tracts or 
>even our Tin-Bigha corridor.  I think India can easily solve those problems;
>but they don't want to.
>    Please think a little bit.

	If you think India is evil that is your choice. I was just wondering
if that was still the case that is all. I like the way you do blame everything
on india. I mean, every country has "ITS" best interest in mind. If that 
makes India evil then so be it. I am sure there are many cases when 
Bd looks out for its interests which to some people might make Bd look 
evil. That is their choice, just like it is your to think India is evil.
I came to this conclusion after hearing soo many people talking about 
how evil the USA was and how it is trying to be the world policeman and 
all these things. But I later realized that perhaps if we(India Bd, pakistan)
were in the position the USA is in.. we wouldnt have done anything 
differently.. dont you think?

Rest well..

>
>
From: n234bq@tamuts.tamu.edu (Mohammad Hossain)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: The War of '71 - Moving On...
Date: 10 Apr 92 20:44:13 GMT
Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station

Some thoughts about "The War of '71 - Moving On..." and the mock trial
of Golam Azam..

** "The War of '71 - Moving On..." -- Why is that one may think we
   did not move on from the "war" of '71?  I don't see anything to think
   we did not. We certainly did. I even think that we "moved on" a 
   little too much--Golam Azam, Pakistan "preety," etc., in point.

** Regarding the trial of Golam Azam, for whom I have enormous amount of
   hate (which is also spreading now for the Imam of Baitul Mukarram Mosque-- 
   note the support he expressed for Gulam Azan in a recent Jumma congregation),
   I think we shouldn't let our emotions to take over the rule of law.
      On the one hand, when the mock trial was the only reason for which the 
   government changed their mind and made a "move" to try Golam Azam, on the 
   other hand the trial established a very unfortunate precedent of ignoring 
   the law of the land and creating atmosphere akin to "lynching." I would think
   it is imperative for us to maintain an atmosphere of rule of law to
   establish a true democratic society, for the growth of which we have been
   waiting so patiently for so long. However, it is really a dillemma--to 
   support the mock trail or not,-- but after careful thoughts, I come out 
   against it.

** I hope now that the government got the push (from the mock trial) to try
   Golam Azam, it wouldn't hesitate to keep the momentum. But then again, we
   with our poor economy and all, are so dependent on whatever money we can get
   from whoever that may be (from the utterly corrupt "muslim" Kings and Emirs 
   of the deserts to the great Uncle Sam), I don't expect much! Also, we have
   our own diffects, our leaders lack statesmanship, so they can never turn
   the tide of "foreign pressure" into their and the people's favor.

** Waiting for the trial to start...

M. Kabir Hossain
Texas A&M University
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.indian
From: kazi@bugs.cis.udel.edu (Zunaid Kazi)
Subject: Re: Behind Azam's arrest [Dhaka courier]
Organization: University of Delaware, Newark
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 15:36:54 GMT

In article <NAEEM.92Apr14180428@occs.cs.oberlin.edu> naeem@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Naeem Mohaiemen) writes:
>

	[Dhaka Courier Excerpts]

>[Golam Azam: the screw tightens; Dhaka Courier, Apr 2, 1992]
>
>..On mar 22, ambassador of a middle eastern country met with Home minister to
>plead for azam..the foreign envoy and Jamaat leaders reportedly threatened
>govt with dire consequences

Anybody know which middle easterm country is meddling in this affair? My 
suspects include either Saudi Arabia or Iran. The alleged threat by the 
foreign envoy should be roundly condemmed. But with the dependence on aid, 
I seriously doubt such an event will ever come to pass.

Naeem writes:

>[Harbinger of things to come: Jamaat had highest number of professionals
>among their candidates in last elections. They also have a very high placement
>of cadre workers in the army. The long term plans seem to be dual pincer 
>movement so that should post election scenario such as Algeria ever emerge
>in Bangladesh (and some analysts predict that a Jamaat victory is not only
>possible but may become inevitable as both AL and BNP are riven by internal
>strife), the army will be unable to stage an anti-Jamaat coup due to massive
>infiltration of lower ranks.]

The most powerful weapon of Jamaat has been the total devotion of it's
workers to the party idealogy. Naeem is right, when he says that there
has been a large placement of Jamaat cadres in the army rank and file.
In recent years a large number of Jamaatists have also joined the officer
corps. It is a concerted attempt by Jamaat to have its cadres close to
if not at the actual center of power in Bangladesh. The scenario is
extremely frightening and is reminiscent of communist attempts to
infiltrate the avenues of power in many countries to gain control by
extra-constitutional means. [eg. Indonesia: mid 60's, Poland post-WW2 etc]

Who are the analysts who are predicting inevitable Jamaat victory. The
one belief that assuages me is the belief that Jamaat can never assume
power thrugh democratic means. Is a Jamaat victory ineveitable?

>Naeem Mohaiemen  naeem@occs.cs.oberlin.edu  snm8696@oberlin  216-774-1993

-- Zunaid
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Zunaid H. Kazi          kazi@cis.udel.edu              302-456-3493
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
From: ahmed-shakil@CS.YALE.EDU (Shakil Waiz Ahmed)
Subject: Re: SHAKIL AHMED AZAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Organization: Yale University, Department of Computer Science
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 04:31:10 GMT


In article <1992Apr9.205939.1@vaxb.acs.unt.edu>, ij21@vaxb.acs.unt.edu writes:
> 
> 
> Attention Mr. Shakil Ahmed
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> 
> 
> Mr. Ahmed,
> 
> 
> 	  I am posting this letter to the net instead of you is because there
> are some issues that all of us need to be cleared about.  While it is very
> clear that you are not willing to sign the petition (which you have every right
> to do so under the U.S constitution??) I think you should not say that you
> support AZAM. You have the right to make your decisions  when you do so
> but in the process of doing so you should also consider the emotions and
> hatred that the rest of the Bangladeshis(All except you) share about Golam
> Azam. Is it time that you reconsider your citizenship Mr. Ahmed?! Or is it the
> "Yale" in our node address!


I think this letter is an excellent example of the point I was trying
to make.  Open your mouth on a sensitive issue, regardless how
rational you are or what you say, and people already start renouncing
your citizenship, questioning your loyalty, indeed casting you in the
same boat as other rejects.  Logic and reason seem sadly absent.

I have repeatedly stated that I do not support Ghulam Azam and that I
believe he should be tried.  But this seems to be falling on deaf
ears, or perhaps blind eyes.  I *know* that most Bangladeshis feel a
strong hatred towards Ghulam Azam, and you may well cast me in that
category, although I dislike using the word "hate."  But that does not
give us the right to pass a *sentence*!  I can and should demand his
trial, but I cannot demand his *fashi*.

I expected this flood of emotions on the net in response to my request
for a little reason, which is precisely why I was so hesitant to voice
my opinion in the first place.  There are certain issues where one can
present the facts rationally until one is blue in the face, only to be
confronted by the same emotional outbursts.  It is the same level of
passionate emotions which leads to the mob hysteria demanding lynching
a criminal without question of trial.  I guess I can't expect human
nature to change, but I did expect more from an intelligent net
community.  At any rate, I was merely expressing why I won't sign the
petition -- what everyone else does is their concern.  You have no
right to question my citizenship or my loyalties.

And I'm still trying to figure out the relevance of your comment
regarding "Yale" in my node address.

-- Shakil Ahmed
=======================================================================
Dept. of Computer Science     INTERNET: ahmed-shakil@cs.yale.edu
P.O. Box 2158, Yale Station   BITNET  : ahmed-shakil@yalecs.bitnet
New Haven, CT 06520-2158      UUCP    : {ucbvax,harvard,...}!yale!ahmed
=======================================================================
Organization: University of Central Florida--Computer Services
Date: Sunday, 5 Apr 1992 23:18:30 EST
From: <EML60046@UCF1VM.BITNET> (Amin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Re: What the hell is going on?(Please read this!)

     We had a less outrageous situation here in Orlando, FL. One Bangladeshi
medical doctor who is deep into Tablig and mixes primarily with Pakistanis
(got his M.B.B.S from Pakistan) gave a speech before the Eid prayer. At one
time, he urged people to acquire knowledge by reading Islamic books published
in English here in the U.S. On our way out, somebody was distributing a catalog
of books. When I looked into it, I could right away sense that this ICNA is an
establishment of Jaamat. The catalog has listed most of the books authored by
Maududi. I also found other names whose books are included in the syllabus of
Jaamat & Shibir. I was amazed to find that they have secrectly targeted U.S. to
establish their base. They cleverly chose the name Islamic Circle of North
America ( I.C.N.A. ) to give an impression to the muslims that it is the
publication branch of I.S.N.A. ( Islamic Society of North America ). On the
inside cover of the catalog, it is stated " I.C.N.A. Book Service, one of the
departments of the I.C.N.A., was established more than a decade ago in North
America & Canada with the purpose of providing Islamic literature to Muslims
in order to enhance their Islamic knowledge and educating non-Muslims about the
true teachings of Islam. ...At present I.C.N.A. Book Service has branches in
New York City : the one I have was published from Jamaica, NY :, Dallas, and
Washington D.C. in the United States, and in Toronto, Canada. We are planning
to establish more branches in other major cities of the U.S. & Canada for the
convenience of our customers."
       I have little doubt in my mind as to the emergence of Jaamat in the U.S.
in disguise of I.C.N.A. Can anybody furnish more info on this ?
       Jaamat does not believe in democracy. It just wants to grab hold of the
powerbase by any means. Taking the lessons from Zia and Ershad, it once decided
that the only way to accomplish that in Bangladesh is by military coup. So lots
of Jaamat and Shibir members went to join Army, Navy, and Air Force. A good
example is Golam Azam's son Salman Azam who even received an award from Army
for his excellence in some category I don't recall. I heard this from a Shibir
worker some seven+ years ago. I won't be surprised to see some government over-
thrown by Jaamat-led military coup. Eight+ years ago, they estimated 20 years
to accomplish their plan.
       Time-permitting I shall try to post some first hand true info on Jaamat
and its activities in Bangladesh.

-Amin

P.S. It would be imprudent to assume the above mentioned doctor to be a spokes-
person of Jaamat. Tablig does not dessiminate political message in any form. I
think he was made to make that announcement without his knowledge. I saw him
scribble down few last minute points before his speech. Also I have never seen
any book by Moududi in his book shelf.

     BTW the I.C.N.A. Book Service version in Bangladesh is the Adhunik
     Prokashoni.
From: alam@ee.rochester.edu (Sheikh Kaisar Alam)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Re: Capital Punishment?
Date: 16 Apr 92 21:00:52 GMT
Organization: Univ of Rochester, College of Engineering and Applied Science

In article <1992Apr13.195355.25053@udel.edu> kazi@bugs.cis.udel.edu (Zunaid Kazi) writes:
>One of the current threads leads me to ask scb-ers:
>
>		"What is your opinion on capital punishment?"
>
Normally, I don't like the idea. But, when it comes to criminals like
Jeffry Dahmer, I all for it.

Shuja
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
From: mrh3@Ra.MsState.Edu (Mohammad Ruhul Hossain)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Re: poilah boishakh
Date: 15 Apr 92 03:15:47 GMT
Organization: Mississippi State University

AHMEDF@BELOIT.EDU writes:

>SHUBHO NOBOBORSHO!!! EVERYONE! by the way, pardon my ignorance, but what
>year does that make it then? can't remember.....
>have a good year everyone!
>--Famin.


	As far as I know, it is 1399.
	Correct me, if I'm wrong.

			      ---Neon
From: rahman@UTSTAT.TORONTO.EDU (Sheikh M. Rahman)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Testing
Date: 15 Apr 92 11:43:00 GMT
Organization: Statistics, University of Toronto, Toronto


This is just a testing. Please ignore it. Thank you.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
From: ij21@vaxb.acs.unt.edu
Subject: THE "ISSUE" AND OUR REACTIONS
Organization: University of North Texas
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 22:29:38 GMT

                      =============================      
                      = Golam Azam the mock trial =
                      =   and our reaction in     =
                      =        the net            =
                      =============================

 
		I was just reading the article of Mr. Zunaid Kazi.  
     I have to fully agree with him. I also believe that the mock
     trial was necessary. None of the earlier administrations have
     done much about bringing the war criminals of our independence
     war to justice. I hope this administration will. The mass certainly
     showed their support towards the cause in the Suhrawardi Uddan.
     A lot of people in Bangladesh had talked about the need for bringing      
     the war criminals to trial over the last twenty one years but nothing
     had been done about it. This movement started by Mrs. Jahanara Imam
     will atleast get things going ( I hope ).  I sincerely am looking 
     forward to see the justice being served on the war criminals, specially
     Mr. Golam Azam. Our drive for the petition, started in the University 
     of North Texas, was aimed at creating an awareness among all of us
     that we need to participate and voice our feelings of bringing Mr. Golam
     Azam to trial, and possibly suggest capital punishment for him.
     I have gotten a lot of response in the mail from a lot of you asking
     for more information about the petition. I think a lot of us responded
     and started a petition on their own. I thank all of of you for sharing our
     goals.

		Last night I got a telephone call from a Mr. Mushtaque, he 
      got my phone number in one of my postings and called me from New Jersey.
      He felt very strongly about the petition and is trying to start one
      in the New Jersey area. I felt good. I thank him for the love of his
      mother nation and his political ideologies. I also thank Mr. M.K Aziz
      and the others who supported the purpose. At the same time I also
      thank the people who felt that there was no need for a petition and
      the legal process should work it's way. Every one has his/her own
      view of things and we should respect every point of view. The mass 
      movement has worked not too long ago when the ex-president had to step
      down from his position under preassure from the people. I hope it
      works this time too. If some of the netters find my love for my country
      and my emotions about Shadhinota Jhuddho intimidating I apologize.
      We have had a lot of discussion about this isssue. Every one had
      contributed with their own ideas. Let us all hope that justice is being
      served on Golam Azam. At least this will make the river of blood created
      by the dead bodies of millions of our elder brothers and our elder
      sisters meaningful.


      Thanks,


      Asif Ibrahim
      IJ21@VAXB.ACS.UNT.EDU
 

    
     Jaamat  
 
        
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
From: s0k5099@zeus.tamu.edu (KHAN, SHAHRIAR)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Its kind of nEeT.
Date: 12 Apr 92 09:08:00 GMT
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

Joy Islam writes:
>>SUBJECT: It's kind of neet!!
>>  Well.. this is my first time in the bulletin...it's kind
>>of interesting to read all the issues that are brought up here.
>> Tell me one thing...why do you people spend most of your time in
>>discussing Golam Azam issue? Do you think it's worth-while??

Asif Ibrahim writes: 
>As far as your enquiry about the worthwhileness of the Golam Azam issue
>in the net goes, I must inform you sir that there are hundreds of pretty darn
>good reasons for us to be discusssing this issue. Unless you have anything
>better to suggest................

	Joy is just being friendly, guys. His question about the discussions
on Azam seems to be just a friendly enquiry. Although I am one of the "Azam 
bashers" myself, I thought this terse reply to his well-meant self-introduction 
may have taken him aback. Our fondness for debate may just be something he is 
not used to. 

Shahriar
Texas A&M University
From: mermmzh@engvms.unl.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Re: Treatment of Minorities in Bangladesh
Date: 15 Apr 92 01:23:26 GMT
Organization: University of Nebraska - Lincoln

In article <samaddar.703262734@orion>, samaddar@siemens.com (Sumitro Samaddar) writes:
> budaraju@cae.wisc.edu (Srinivas Budaraju) writes:
> 
> In contrast, in Bangladesh, damage to non-muslim places of worship has been
> considerable.
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^

 Based on what you are making this remark? I have spent 24 years of my
 life in Bangladesh, but never seen a Hindu- Muslim riot or damage of
non-muslim places of worship. In 1990 Ershad's govt. damaged some
Mandir by hired people. People from all over the country( Including 
Jamaat) expressed their anger and concern against that action. 

> I am curious what happens in Bangladesh? Is the average Muslim concerned that
> any overenthusiastic display of their religious fervor in a Hindu neighborhood

In Bangladesh, specially in the cities there are no specific Hindu neighborhood.
And in most of the areas the Muslims and the Hindus live together in the same
neighborhood.

> the escalation of this incident by the Hindus that followed. But how would
> this kind of thing developed in Bangladesh. Say, if some Mulla/Moulvis of a 
> (major) mosque were beaten up by Hindu youths because of similar circumstances.
> Though, even in Hindu majority India, I believe that an average Hindu would not
> assault any Mulla/Moulvi on similar provocation. How would an average Muslim
> Bangladeshi react to that?
>

In Bangladesh there were no Hindu-Muslim riot after 1952 and the assault of
Mollahs by Hindus or assault of shadu by Muslims never occured.
 
> One more thing. There are special programs on Indian TV and Radio during
> festivals of all faiths. Is that the case in Bangladesh also? I think that it
> is the case, but I would like confirmation neverthless. eg; do you have
> broadcasts of "Mahalaya" during Durga Pooja?
> 

Yes, we have the same in our country also.Not only special programs,
our T.V and Radio broadcast regular (weekly) programs for Hindus,Buddhists
and the Chirstians.

> Once I get convincing answers to these, I can believe boasts of Bangladesh
> being tolerant of minorities.

Bangladesh is a country of the Bengalis, so the Hindus are not the minority
there (Since most of them are Bengali). Non-Bengalis like the Chakmas can be 
considered as minorities.

> 
> Sumitro

---Zakir
From: a0h9342@zeus.tamu.edu (HAQUE, ANISUL)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Supporting Pakistani Teams
Date: 9 Apr 92 18:28:00 GMT

should support Pakistani teams or any other teams in general. That one should 
support the team based on its merits and also one should be able to 
differentiate between sports and politics. But can we? or should we? Wasn't it 
due to their politics that South Africa was expelled from the world of sports?
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

After reading that article, I asked myself, so is this the reason that majority 
of us support Pakistan in any sporting or cultural event? Do most of us like 
the styles of Pakistani performers over everyone else? I am afraid, the answer 
is no. In general, support of Pakistan is unrelated to their performance (of 
course,  there are exceptions). I have met so many sports ignorant people who 
support Pakistan in Cricket or Hockey, But I am yet to see such a person who 
is a fan of West Indies, India or Australia or any other countries.

Do any of you remember the Asia Cup Hockey final in Dhaka between India and 
Pakistan (Was that in 1985 or 86?)? Mashuqur Rahman mentioned it earlier. The 
stadium was packed with frenzied Pakistani supporters. Most of them were not 
Hockey fans. They were not familiar with either Pakistani or Indian players or 
their styles, yet they almost gave their lives for Pakistan. I know, because I 
was there.  

So, why are most of us avid Pakistani supporters? Is it because Pakistan is a 
Muslim country? Is this another form of pan-Islamism? Probably no. If this were 
true, then why are we so apathetic about the fate of muslims everywhere else? 
Like muslims in Philippines, Yugoslavia or Lebanon?

I think when we were raised, we were taught that India is evil and no matter 
what Pakistan does, she is better than India. Religion played a very important 
role in establishing this. Before '71, Pakistani rulers had to push this, but 
I don't know, for some reasons or other, the attitude hasn't changed much even 
after independence. Maybe the burocrats couldn't overcome their old practices. 
Specially, since majority of them were detouched from active freedom fight. 
Remember that the word 'Pakistan' was taboo in BTV in association with the 
liberation war before '89. Rather the words like 'Hanadar' or 'Dakhaldar' were 
being used. 

Are most of us subject to this prejudice? I don't know. The post '71 generation 
is more susceptable to this because on one hand, they don't have a first hand 
experience and on the other we have failed to educate them.

Regards
Anisul Haque
Texas A & M university
a0h9342@sigma.tamu.edu  
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.indian