HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: timi@mendel.berkeley.edu ( Tim Ikeda)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Cure worse than the disease?
Date: 8 Jan 1993 00:23:13 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization
NNTP-Posting-Host: mendel.berkeley.edu


From a repost of:altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar)
>Country     vit D      Femur Fractures       heart disease
>          additives     per/100,000          per/100,000
>                        female male         female  male
>
>Canada      ++++         200   50            650   200
>USA         ++++         102   51            700   190
>Sweden         +          87   38            340   100
>UK             +          63   29            520   150
>Neth           +          51   29            370   100
>Finland        +          50   27            780   200
>Israel         +          70   43            450   200
>Yugo          no          39   38            320   200
>Singapore     no          15   27            200   100
>HongKong      no          31   27             83    37

First, thanks for dropping the anabolic issue. Calciferol operates in
a tissue-specific, regulatory manner which is quite distinct from
the sex hormone-derived steriods which are *popularly* refered to
as "anabolic steroids". "Anabolic" is a context-specific term in much the
same way that "transposition" suggests "conversion to a different key" for
a musician and "movement of a block of DNA" to a molecular biologist.

Some other things...
In section IV of your post, the columns for "female" and "male" of the
"heart disease" catagory were transposed. (Though millions of men wish
it wasn't a typo.)

Also, the data on heart disease was based on populations from 
the period of 1965-1969 whereas the VitD intake data covers
(I think) the 1970's. Significant lifestyle changes in populations
occurred between these periods. Like jogging.

Drs. Moon, Bandy and Davison noted that during 1969-1970, heart disease
began to decrease in the US and Canada while in England/Wales and 
Ireland, there was a slow increase. Presently, the male heart disease
death rate is similar in all these areas (a bit over 500/100K pop.),
seriously reducing the correlation between femoral fractures in
women and death from heart disease for men. One other major problem
with the table described, at least as indicator of VitD intake hazard,
is that the data is not adjusted for lifestyles or ethnicities of
the countries reported. (Note how a "lower" VitD consumer in Finland
still has a high male heart disease rate -- greater than US or Canada).
(The data for proximal femur fractures in Canada was for the time
period 1972-1984.)

Personally, I would have preferred seeing data that was matched
by year -- the heart disease data is readily available.

Regards, 
Tim Ikeda
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: levin@world.std.com (Levin F Magruder)
Subject: Some things about beans
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 01:33:03 GMT

There've been a few postings about beans lately; they're among my
favorite foods; here are some facts, questions, and semicolons:

Early this fall, I think, maybe as long ago as last winter, there was
a long article in the Atlantic about beans.  It focused on "heirloom"
beans -- strains which some farmers are reviving and supposedly have 
more character than the familiar grocery store varieties.

The article said that frequently changing the soaking water can reduce
heaviness and gas.  I've done this, sometimes, since, and don't notice
much difference.  The article said that there wasn't  much nutrient loss,
but I don't recall any peer reviewed studies published in the Journal
of Clinical Human Nutritional Studies.  

I do notice, however, that frequent rinsing of black beans, if you want
their color for a salad, is a bad idea.  It might be desirable if you're
mashing and frying them; I've found "refried" black beans unpleasantly
dark.  (Although I guess no refried beans are particularly beautiful.)

comptec92043@camins.camosun.bc.ca writes:
>I reccomend soaking beans, pinto preferrably overnight, say 10 hours.
>Then cook them for an hour in a pot until soft and mashable. 
>Take them out of the pot and put them on a plate and crush them 
>adding any seasonings you wish.

I've found that really great beans come from the following method, but
that it does not at all guaranty really great beans.  I'd say the hits
are about 1 time in 4; I'm sure it depends on temperature, the age of
the beans and 7 other variables:
  soak overnight
  drain in the morning
  let sit until you're ready to cook (all day, that is).  If you're
   home to do it, rinse them a few times during the day.
  cook in an ample amount of water, more water than you need -- cover
   them by more than 1 inch.
The beans start to sprout while they dry, you can see the tail bulging
under the skin, sometimes it comes out in warm weather.  This changes
the flavor, and supposedly (vegetarian legend?) makes them more
nutritious and digestible.  They don't visibly start to sprout in the
winter (it's cold in my kitchen), but I think they do come to life, 
because even when it's cold I sometimes get the really great beans.

I assert that beans cook more quickly and taste better when cooked in 
a lot of water.  If this assertion is true, it seems like it would
be widely recommended, but I've never heard anyone second this opinion.

I often end up discarding some of the cooking liquid,
and probably some valuable nutrients which are so scarce in the 
vegetarian diet.  

Never put salt in beans until they're as tender as you want them.  If
you use canned beans (I do from time to time, they can be good) rinse
them well if they're packed in salty water.  I've never come across
any that weren't.  Warm them in fresh water, they'll still be well
salted.

The article I mentioned did not give any addresses of mail order
suppliers of heirlooms (I don't think).  Anyone have any?
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Vitamin B Supplement?
From: cjenson@cabell.vcu.edu (Cary E. Jenson)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 13:59:55 GMT
Organization: Virginia Commonwealth University


Dear Friends,

I've been an ovo-lacto (sp?) vegetarian for several years and am in
excellent health. However, I recently read an excellent book about
the impact of nutrition on cognition. The author was very balanced
and even handed about vegetarianism but did make the point that V.s
should take a B supplement.  I'm curious to know what you all think.
How many take supplements? What kind? Is there any reason to pay for
expensive name brands like Solar or Schiff when health food store
brands are much less expensive?

Thanks

Cary
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: entropy@world.std.com (The Entropic one)
Subject: Re: test
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 07:46:54 GMT

In article <1hjs42INNisn@flash.pax.tpa.com.au> anon.165@pax.tpa.com.au writes:
>
>test

Closeted vegetarian?

-- 
------  Linux, Religion, and electronic shopping all in one place!
\    / Repent of Bean eating, MS-DOS, OS/2, and windows NT, no sales man
 \  / will hassle you, no priest will sacrifice you. Free 9600 baud download.
  \/ Call the Virtual World Information Systems BBS at 508-793-9568        
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: abulsari@aton.abo.fi
Subject: Ted Altar
Organization: Abo Akademi University
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 06:21:21 GMT

Ted Altar is the most important contributor on rec.food.veg.

Since Michael Traub left, he has been the most informative
and needs to be thanked for that.

Let us hope he does not have to leave some day in near future.

Abhay

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: xmpp@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Melody Paul)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: vegan bacon?
Date: 7 Jan 93 18:53:20 GMT
Organization: Educational Computing Network

Thanks for the information, I found them at my local Dominicks Food Store.
Although I did not know they had canned goods as well, I will have to look
for these.
-- 
Melody P. Paul			Office:   708/534-0200
Technical Editor		Fax:      708/534-2042
Educational Computing Network	Internet: xmpp@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu
University Park, IL 60466	BITNET:   xmpp@ecnuxa
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: Christine_Code@mindlink.bc.ca (Christine Code)
Subject: going vegan: bit by bit or cold turkey (for Clover)
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 17:44:24 GMT

> Clover M. writes:
>
> I have a question regadrding becoming a vegan.
>
> How many of you have gone from meat eating gradually to veganism,
> and how many went cold turkey (like I tried to do)?


I made a gradual switch from a meat based diet to a vegetarian one.

I began by eating only 1/3 or so of every serving of meat. (That was back
when I didn't know what vegetarians ate, and didn't want to die of protein
deficiency.;)

The next step was to find suitable recipes for meatless main dishes.  It
seemed terribly difficult at the start - nobody I knew cooked without meat!
I still remember the first meatless meal recipe I found, and how pleased I
was to have a vegetarian meal that was easy to cook and good to eat.

I tried at least one vegetarian recipe per week from then on.  Some of them
were awful, and every once in a while I'd luck out and find a really good
one. Once I had 3 or 4 good vegetarian dinner recipes, I stopped eating meat
completely.  Now I've got about 40 "tested and good" recipes and am still
testing.

After about a year of not eating meat, I took a vegan cooking and nutrition
course and learned why milk, cheese and eggs aren't so good for us after all.
So then I went from vegetarian to vegan pretty well overnight.


> When I cheated, I felt bad, and I felt that it was a major transgression,
> but looking back it, I guess it wasn't so bad, considering that I wasn't
> even vegetarian until Nov 31. In fact, I even ate beef for dinner the night
> before my ban started.

I think you're doing REALLY well.  As my dad used to say, a tiger doesn't
change his stripes overnight!

> So, here it is, January.  I am extending my original one month experiment
> to a second month, and we shall see how long it will last.  I have a
> feeling that if I keep to it long enough, it will become a matter of habit.
>
> What do you all think?

I agree.  You'll find recipes you like and restaurants with vegan food.  Your
taste buds will adjust and one day you may even find the smell of meat
revolting.  I do.

Good luck, Clover!  And congratulations.

...Christine
--

==========================================================================
Christine Code                 *
                               *  "A bear, however hard he tries,
Vancouver, B.C, CANADA         *   Grows tubby without exercise."
Christine_Code@MindLink.bc.ca  *                   -A.A. Milne
==========================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: "john russell" <john.russell@canrem.com>
Subject: veggie filler?
Reply-To: "john russell" <john.russell@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: rec
Date: 9 Jan 93 14:32:32 EST

To: rec-foo-veg@ucbvax.berkeley.edu

I recently tried some veggie burgers from England that ask you to add
cooked rice or bread crumbs to the prepared mix.  There's always some
leftover rice in my fridge, so I used that and it was pretty good.
Since then I've tried adding cooked rice to Nature's Burger, and that
worked OK (although it seems to decrease the water needed).

My question is, if you can add rice to sandwich mixes to make them go
farther, what other sorts of "filler" is good for vegetarians, and what
sorts of dishes do they work well in?

For example, I've been told that you can add uncooked rice to a noodle
dish, even the instant kind, and it'll cook along with the noodles.
(This might only work for some kinds; the suggestion was to use some
strongly flavoured rice to perk up the noodles.)

I've already got soya grits (never found much use for them) and recently
purchased some TVP (chile yes, but what else?).

John
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar)
Subject: Re: New vegitarian seeks info
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 20:00:50 GMT

NICK@dirac.physics.jmu.edu (Nick Mcdowell) writes:

>Hello,
>   I've recently decided to become a vegetarian (lacto-ovo for now) and I 
>was wondering if there was a FAQ out there or an archive site that could
>help me get started. 
>...

> 
Nick, take a look at the GRANOLA FAQL for now.  I expect that
the r.f.v. FAQ will be posted shortly.  The instructions
for accessing the GRANOLA FAQL are given in my earlier
posting titled, "recipes, recipes and more recipes!!"

					ted

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: jbeason@s.psych.uiuc.edu (Joseph E. Beason)
Subject: Re: Gelatin
Organization: UIUC Department of Psychology
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 17:54:18 GMT

I've not seen it, but I believe there is a non-animal based gelatin made from plants.  It's kosher, so maybe you can find it Jewish sections of the narket.

Hmmmm, maybe it's not animalless, maybe just made from kosher animals.  I'll ask
around.

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: abulsari@aton.abo.fi
Subject: Diet affects diabetes - an experience
Organization: Abo Akademi University
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 05:53:36 GMT


Hope it encourages others as I was depressed when I thought I would have
to change my diet so drastically, but I feel so much better it has been
easier than I thought it would be.

Joan

Earlier she wrote :

> I have been recently diagnosed with Type II Diabetes and have been
> successful so far in avoiding oral medication and injections by changing
> my diet.  I lost 15 pounds in a few months by cutting out all refined
> sugar.  I had been a sugar junky suffering from low blood sugar symptoms
> which caused me to be extremely thirsty, hungry and tired.  I have added
> more fibre to my diet to slow down sugar absorption and I have started an
> excercise program to further decrease my blood sugar and to try to
> continue to loose weight.  My doctor explained that the fat cells resist
> insulin absorption so if I reduce my body fat that will help.
> 
> I personally have been able to reduce my blood sugar from 200 to 100
> (which at the present time is too low to treat because I would then have
> to worry about too low a blood sugar).
> 
> I am genetically pre-disposed since my mother and her mother had Type II
> diabetes and now my children know they are pre-disposed also.
> 
> The primary goal is to be at a normal weight.  Eventually I may have to
> take medication anyway, but for now I just have to deal with my diet.
> 
> It is difficult to cut out sugar, salt and fat in your diet.  I also have
> high blood pressure so I can't eat salt.  I have not eliminated fat
> altogether, but try to always buy "lite" products and have cut down on the
> frequency and amount of meat I eat.
> 
> I have switched to more vegetable stir frys and vegetarian recipes.  For
> those who don't have to problems I do yet, they can give themselves the
> gift of starting now to eat healthier and excercise regularly.  It is
> tougher when you get older to loose weight and change your life style.
> 
> Good luck to all of you out there.
> 
> Joan



Abhay Bulsari



Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar)
Subject: Re: Soy milk
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 01:18:37 GMT

jaj@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Jill A. Johnson) writes:


>Well I bought some rice dream vanilla flavor and it tastes awful to drink it.
>Maybe I still remember too much what real milk tastes like.  I don't have to 
>have something that tastes exactly like milk but I'd like it to taste 
>good (i'm more picky than the averate cat. 

I agree that it is the wrong approach to measure up non-animal foods
to animal foods on every point of taste.  These "substitues" do have
their own qualities of taste, which when one becomes familar with
are really tasty-enjoyable on their own terms.

Jill, try the plain "Original Lite" 1% fat Rice Dream.  The vanilla
brand really is too sweet (better used in "nogs" or "shakes"). 
The Origianl Lite is quite mild and tasty (to my taste) and 
works really well in those former milk-based soup recipes.

					Cheers,
						ted
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar)
Subject: Fibre: Effects of Preparation/Cooking
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 08:41:49 GMT



VI.  HOW DOES COOKING AFFECT FIBRE?

While cooking and kitchen processing is not going to
decrease or increase the total amount of major fibres, heat
from cooking can make certain "indigestible starches" more
digestible.  Conversely, what is called "Maillard products
can occur (enzyme-resistant linkages between amino acids of
proteins and the carboxyl groups of reducing sugars),
particularly from baking and frying.  Of course, there is
debate as to whether or not include such Maillard compounds
as components of dietary fibre.  Most researchers prefer not
to consider as components of fibre either the resistant
starch or Maillard compounds.

It is also the case that the size of the particles and/or
degree of processing of the foods providing fibre appear to
influence the GI response to ingested fibre.  For example,
coarsely ground bran has a higher hydration capacity than
that which is finely ground.  Hence, coarsely ground bran
increases fecal volume by its water-holding capacity, and it
also speeds up fecal passage time through the colon.  With
respect to emptying food from the stomach, these larger
particles slow it down rather than speed it up.

                                     ted

References:

Hunt & Groff's (1990), ADVANCED NUTRITION AND HUMAN
    METABOLISM, 1990.

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: abulsari@abo.fi (Abhay Bulsari VT)
Subject: Re: Ted Altar
Organization: Abo Akademi University
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 07:26:46 GMT

In article <altar.726509770@sfu.ca> altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar) writes:
>Again Abhay, I appreciate your generous compliment, but
>please, you must not do this to me.  I am NOT the most
>important contributor.

You ARE. What do you know ? (Insert enough smileys here.)

Abhay
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: young@clpd.kodak.com (Rich Young)
Subject: Re: Answer to clove[24~[24~[24~*darn dle keys*
Originator: young@sasquatch
Reply-To: young@clpd.kodak.com
Organization: Clinical Diagnostics Division, Eastman Kodak Company
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 93 13:17:43 GMT

In article <1993Jan5.063644.7401@sarah.albany.edu> la1002@albnyvms.bitnet writes:
>Any chocolate chip cookies that are vegan (I have vegan margarine in
>my fridge) would INDEED be a good thing.  Please post any and all
>recipes for goodies that I can make while attempting this dietary
>change - to console me for that Ben and Jerry's that I didn't eat,
>or for the cheeseburger, or for the, well... I could go on forever.

[...]

>*SIGH*

	It occurs to me that conventional wisdom states that the feeling 
	of denial of enjoyable foods is a major cause of the failure of
	weight-loss diets, and I would imagine that the same principle
	would apply to conversion to vegan-/vegetarian-ism.  If one tends
	to view the diet as a punishment, then one is less likely to be
	comfortable with it.

	It would seem that one should overlook occasional digressions from
	one's dietary goal, while maintaining one's resolve to effect the
	desired changes in eating behavior.  In short, if you feel like
	Ben and Jerry's once in a while, don't feel guilty about it: just
	accept the fact that you like the stuff, have a little, and keep
	pushing toward your vegan goal.  It won't matter much whether you
	achieve veganism today or next week or next month or next year...
	the idea is to make the change a positive thing, not a denial of
	everything you enjoy.

	Good luck.


-Rich Young (These are not Kodak's opinions.)
Newsgroups: rec.food.recipes
From: srajag@paul.rutgers.edu (Subhashini Rajagopalan)
Subject: REQUEST:Onion Rings
Status: RO
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.
Date: 12 Jan 93 20:13:05 GMT



This may seem to be a very fundamental question, but
could someone please post the recipe for making onion rings.
What are the different kinds of batter that can be used?

Thanks in advance.

Subha
srajag@paul.rutgers.edu


Newsgroups: rec.food.recipes
From: <U51754@uicvm.uic.edu>
Subject: REQUEST: sauces for pasta w/out tomatoes
Status: RO
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 16:00:17 CST

I'm looking for recipes that would have garlic as an ingredient, not
too much mind you:) and one that doesn't need a lot of cream either,
nothing fatty please, looking out for my health--
                                                 thanks in advance,
                                                            kimi

ps. very serious about the tomatoes, hate them!

Newsgroups: rec.food.recipes
From: jthomp@Si.nosc.mil (Jeffrey B. Thompson)
Subject: REQUEST: Lowfat granola
Apparently-To: uunet!rec-food-recipes
Organization: /home/Au/jthomp/.organization
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 00:05:34 GMT

I've always been rather fond of granola and have had a good recipe for
years but my wife has decided we need to eat less fat.  Of course the
recipe we have isn't low in fat.  We've found lowfat granola in a
couple of specialty grocery stores but I'd really like to make it
myself.  I thought I'd ask here before trying to invent my own granola
recipe.  Anyone?

Jeff Thompson
--
----------------------------------
Jeffrey B. Thompson / Code 721 / jthomp@cod.nosc.mil / x32317
----------------------------------

Newsgroups: rec.food.recipes
From: "Trevor Kirby" <Trevor.Kirby@newcastle.ac.uk>
Subject: SEAFOOD: bhuna prawn
Status: RO
Organization: Taronga Park BBS
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 10:19:19 GMT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

Bhuna Prawn  a la Mrs Shrivastrava

4 Tbsp	oil or ghee		5 cloves
1 large onion			5 cardomoms
1 1" piece of fresh ginger	2 bay leaves
2 fresh green chillies (opt)	1/2 Tsp cumin seeds
1 Lb peeled prawns		1/2 Tsp Chilli powder
2 Tbsp Natural yoghurt		1   Tsp Turmeric
Salt to taste			handful chopped coriander (opt)

Peel and chop onion and ginger finely or liquidise it with a bit 
of water into a stiff paste.

Heat the oil to smoking point in a large heavy bottomed pan. Add 
Bayleaves, Cumin, Cloves and Cardamoms and replace the lid 
QUICKLY. When the seeds stop popping and the leaves are brown 
(about 10 secs) add the onion paste and fry for about 5 mins till 
brownish. If it sticks add a tsp of water.

Add salt and yoghurt and mix well for a few mins, then add the 
prawns and turmeric then cook over a low heat for 5 mins. Add 1/4 
pt of water, cover and simmer for 20-25 mins or until prawns are 
tender. Serve hot sprinkled with coriander leaves and chopped 
green chillies.

Bhuna prawn (2)

4 Tbsp	oil or ghee		6 Fenugreek seeds
1 large onion			6 cardomoms
1 1" piece of fresh ginger	2 bay leaves
2 Tsp desicated coconut (opt)	1 Tsp cumin seeds
1 Lb peeled prawns		1/2 Tsp Chilli powder
2 Tbsp Natural yoghurt		1/2 Tsp Turmeric
Salt to taste			handful chopped coriander 
1 Tsp black mustard seeds

Finely chop the onion and fry in the hot oil till golden brown 
then put aside. Add a bit more oil and when very hot add Cumin, 
Mustard, Fenugreek, Cardomom and chopped ginger. When the ginger 
turns a light brown and the seeds stop popping add the prawns. 

Fry over a high heat for a couple of minutes, stirring all the 
time. Add salt, Turmeric and yoghurt. Stir in 1/4 pt of water and 
simmer till the prawns are done. Serve hot sprinkled with the 
fried onion, chilli powder, coconut and coriander.

Newsgroups: rec.food.recipes