From: mjmh@crsa.bu.edu (Michael J M Holmes)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: God and Science:  The Ramblings of The Nightstalker
Date: 17 Nov 92 16:00:48 GMT
Organization: Boston University Center for Remote Sensing

In article <1e78bdINNppi@gap.caltech.edu> ajm@wag.caltech.edu (Abner J. Mintz) writes:

>As another aside ...  Christianity has historically been a missionary
>religion (one of few).  So you could say that someone who tries to 'spread
>the word' is living up to some of the traditional values of the religion.
>Similarly, since the Christian God is quoted as calling himself a jealous
>God, it's unlikely that someone who believes those quotes is going to admit
>the possible validity of other moral systems.

/*, holding his (3rd? 4th?) grape crush, turns.

"This is one of the most interesting topics that came out of my
talks with my brother."

"I had obviously been turned off by his preaching and arguing,
but when we were able to talk rationally (and he didn't come off
as believing 'Christian good.  Non-Christian bad.'), we talked
about why he does it."

"He really feels a deep need to 'get' people to Jesus.  He really
feels that he 'personally' has been called by what God tells him
through the Bible.  Even when he knows people will react negatively,
if he *doesn't* make an attempt to talk about Jesus, he feels like
he is being a coward, or letting Jesus down.  He *hadn't* realized
how righteous he sounded when making those attempts, but the 
principle of making the attempt was still there."

"So, our dilemma was in accepting each other's need to believe
and express our beliefs as required.  One good aspect of this 
discussion was that we decided that there were many ways my 
brother could be a disciple of his Christianity - and that 
constantly bringing up the Bible wasn't the only way."

"If he kept talking 'Bible' to a friend who asked him not to,
or even worse, if he stopped talking to friends who wouldn't
let him talk 'Bible,' I pointed out that he ended up looking
like a person who didn't know how to listen, or be supportive,
or showed respect for another person."

"I then asked him this question:  If you have a friend whom
you've turned off of the Bible because of the way you constantly
beat him/her over the head with it; or if you 'drop' a friend
because you don't think you can turn them into a 'Christian;'
but if all that friend needed was a few years of a friendship
with a non-judgemental person who behaved Christian without talking
Christian - in order to become a Christian themselves; well, then
which was really doing Jesus' will?"

"This really sparked a lot of talk between us, and a lot of thought
in him.  Not only do individuals have different 'styles' of their
religion, but you can't talk or act the same way to everyone you know...
you need to be able to change your 'style' of communicating, based
on what you 'hear' from the other person."

"I know my brother still wants me to be a Christian.  He no longer
says it flat out, but we both know it is part of his belief - and
we both accept it.  We can talk about once-sensitive subjects, and
we can grow in our understanding of each other's perspective.  Just to
give you a quick example - we have recently had a serious discussion 
about abortion that did NOT become heated!!  We even discovered a point
of agreement - that the politicization of the issue was NOT a good thing!"

"I hope this helps people on both sides of the issue.  I learned that
I couldn't stop my brother's evangelizing impulse without seriously
compromising his freedom of religion.  My brother learned to evaluate
the effect he was having on people, that his actions often speak
louder than his words, and not to expect 'instant' results.  We
also learned to disagree and still respect each other.  The compromise
allows both of us to retain our beliefs, and still benefit from a
good brotherly relationship."




-- 
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Mike Holmes       mjmh@crsa.bu.edu           "Happiness Will Prevail!"
Boston University Department of Geography (a truly GREAT place to work!)
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Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: mtemplar@redunser.demon.co.uk (Alan Ralph)