From: gcf@panix.com (Gordon Fitch)
Subject: The Nice Guy Syndrome (was: Re: Male Men Bashers)
Organization: mydog in exile
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 17:52:30 GMT

pepke@dirac.scri.fsu.edu (Eric Pepke) writes:
| Check followups.

I fixed them.

kendall@adobe.com (Janice Kendall) writes:
| >OK.  Let's define what "nice, sensitive guy" means...
| >
| >I am a woman and I wanted a "nice, sensitive guy".  I've dated self-centered
| >jerks and as I matured and came to care more about my own "quality of life"
| >(yep - it's, arghhh, SELF-ESTEEM!), I quit seeing the self-centered jerks
| >as better-than-me-and-therefore-desirable, and saw them as self-centered
| >jerks not worth wasting my time on.

ep:
| Thanks for saying this.  It is consistent with my experience.
| 
| The reason I set the followups the way I did is that I want to talk about
| the message that men get.  The message is this:
| 
| 1) If you're a self-centered jerk, you'll get plenty of dates.
| 2) It you're a nice, sensitive guy, you may at some time acquire a long-term
|    partner who may or may not stop dating self-centered jerks.  In the mean
|    time, you might as well watch Popeye cartoons to see what your forearms
|    are going to look like.
| 
| This is generally called the "nice guy syndrome."

I haven't found these scenarios to be true.  Rather, I think
that self-centered-jerkness and nice-guyness are orthogonal
(as people who speak pseudomath like to say) to the ability
to get dates.  The reason the myth arises is, I think,
because those who are poor at getting dates need to find
some cause which preserves their self-esteem.  If a man is
inexperienced, inept, diffident, aloof, bored with most 
women, frightened by women, interested only in a small
subset of possible relationships (e.g. "true love") and so 
on -- there could be a great many reasons for not being 
good at the game -- the idea of being a "nice guy" -- a 
person who is too polite and too sensitive to be aggressive 
-- is a tempting self-service.  It's being too good for a 
nasty, brutish world; I certainly feel that way.

Given my theory of nice/jerk orthogonality, one might ask 
why so many women report running through a series of self-
centered jerks before getting to the nice guys.  One of
the reasons is that there are probably many more "jerks" 
than "nice guys", however they may define themselves.

The other reason is that there's a social Gresham's law.  
Gresham's law states that bad money drives out good; 
currency with low "intrinsic" value tends to be circulated 
(people get rid of it) while that with high "intrinsic" 
value is kept.  The same with dates: the jerks quickly get 
put back in circulation, while the nice guys (the real 
ones) are carefully sequestered and kept warm and cozy.  
The "success" of the jerk is usually a very temporary one; 
that's why he has so many to report.

By the way, dating success is a learned skill.  In New York,
you can even take classes in which you can learn how to get
dates; I believe they guarantee success or your money back.
But I think a lot of "nice guys" need to consider whether
that is what they really want, or if they're longing for a
unrealizable fantasy.  Remember, most members of the 
opposite sex are just as bad as most members of the one
you're a member of.
-- 

 )*(    Gordon Fitch    )*(    gcf@panix.com    )*(
( 1238 Blg. Grn. Sta.,  NY NY 10274 * 718.273.5556 )
Newsgroups: soc.men