HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rks@cscns.com (Island's Child)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: any atheist pagans out there?
Date: 5 Nov 92 03:05:04 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Community_News_Service
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

wolfe@wolves.uucp (G. Wolfe Woodbury) writes:
: In article <Bx21o5.CqE@cscns.com> rks@cscns.com (Island's Child) writes:
: >It *has* to have some meaning. Otherwise, why do we bother? But then, how
: >do you define beauty and truth? That is certainly subjective. Anyone who
: >tries to tell me that there is meaning and purpose in the mundane lives
: >of most people is simply full of crap. So -- is it a conscious choice we
: >make to "opt out" of the everyday concerns -- working for someone else,
: >produce-and-consume, acquisition -- for something more meaningful? 
: 
: 
: What makes *you* so special that your life has meaning and purpose, and
: J. Random Human's doesn't?

I am talking about *all* of us! I am talking about the rote way most
of us live and the purpose and meaning that comes from that. 

: 
: You have some kind of worth that they don't?

Did I say that? If I did, kindly quote the part that states that. 

: 
: Excuse me while I get disgusted over this kind of attitude.

Find out what I am talking about first. Then get as disgusted as you like
but keep in mind that the first sign of intellectual integrity is collecting
facts before drawing a conclusion. 

So that you will understand it, my basic statement is that most of us
live banal lives. Where is the meaning or purpose in that? 

Is that clear enough? 

Check your attitude at the desk! 
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: txdv1@isuvax.iastate.edu (Angela KAY Rolling)
Subject: politices
Reply-To: txdv1@isuvax.iastate.edu
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 16:53:53 GMT

If you want things to git done pester your congrise men. The only powers that
the president really has are the veto and he can send troops in before 
informing congrese and if congrese decides to bring the troops back they 
come back. The president is little more then a figure head. As of yet
doesnt even have the right to line itome veto! As far as I am concerned
an alternit spelling for presedent is s-c-a-p-e g-o-o-t. Keep this in
mind. Congrese is able to over ride the pesedents veto with a 
vote of 2/3 of the house and senite!

ELF-KIN	"by the prickling of my thomb someting wickid this way
Xref: sparky alt.pagan:12371 alt.magick:5680
From: ccs@aber.ac.uk (Christopher "Jd" Samuel)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: X-trian Right Wingers Strike Again
Date: 5 Nov 92 18:44:28 GMT
Organization: University of Wales - Aberystwyth - Prifysgol Cymru

In article <7734@monmouth.edu>,
 c1741@moncol.monmouth.edu (MICHAEL CARSON) doodled:

>	I heard this bit on Public Radio last night.  It seems that in their
> quest to destroy anything remotely invloved with magick, some
> Funnymentalist group are sueing various school boards for violation of
> the First Amendment and seperation of church and state, saying that
> fairy tales like Hansel and Gretel support the religion of Witchcraft. 

This has been going on for a long time..

I believe that similar cases have come to court, and have the religious
right have won, although they may have been quashed on appeal.

For more information you might want to listen to Jello Biafra's
"High Priest of Harmful Matter" spoken word album, which contains
quite a bit about the religious right and their assault on the US
school system, as well as rock music and his (and friends) trial for
'distributing harmful matter to minors" (the 'harmful matter in question
being an H.R. Geiger poster).

>	Great news, I think.  Their suit will get thrown out of court, and
>they have just recognized Witchcraft as a religion.. :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

I doubt if it will get chucked out of court.  The cases I've heard were
not against pagans, but were about the fact there wasn't _enough_
religion (read fundamentalist Christianity) in school textbooks.

Chris

-- 
 Christopher Samuel, c/o Computer Unit, UCW Aberystwyth, Aberystwyth, WALES
  RFC: ccs@aber.ac.uk   UUCP: *!mcsun!uknet!aber!ccs   JNT: ccs@uk.ac.aber
          Deddf Iaith Newydd i Gymru | New Language Act for Wales
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: tara@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Lady Johanna Constantine)
Subject: Re: Annoying, cloying "wann-be"s
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 23:28:46 GMT

ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com (Ailsa N.T. Murphy) writes:

>                                             -ailsa

>p.s. anybody want to start a thread on pagan elements in Swamp Thing?
>*grin*

Don't forget the pagan elements of Sandman, or Robin of Sherwood.


- Lady Johanna Constantine
-- 
Lady Johanna Constantine | "When you remove the pin, Mr Hand
tara@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu    |  Grenade is no longer your friend"
Founder of the Church of Our Lady of the Perpetually Clueless
Disclaimer: The U of I doesn't give a damn or blast WHAT I do
From: lilleyc@cs.man.ac.uk (Chris Lilley)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: How the hell can religion and action not be related?
Date: 6 Nov 92 01:21:47 GMT
Organization: Dept Computer Science, University of Manchester, U.K.

In article <-1365033276snx@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au> gil@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au (Gil Hardwick) writes:

>I believe you have misattributed Christianity to Westerners as such;
>Western European pagans [...] 

>knee-jerk reaction), here you are merely sprouting your own ignorance
>of the pagan traditions of Europe which have never sought to dominate
>or conquer anyone at any time in history. 

Uh, Gil, this post is all very well in general but this particular bit
is just a teensy bit wrong I think.  If you look up the Celts -
generally considered a Pagan people - you will find that they did a
bit of conquering and domination on the side. At the height of their
(temporal) power their empire was quite large... from the Urals west ...

The pagan Irish also did the odd bit of fighting enemies and such.
Indeed sometimes I think their tales consist of little else ;-)

And the Vikings, I believe, went in for a spot of domination in the
8th and 9th centuries. Something to do with boats...

The saxons, too did a touch of conquering ...

Your mentioning of the word 'ignorance' in that sentence was a little
unfortunate in this regard, wouldn't you say?

--
Chris Lilley
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Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: the US elections...
From: heimberg@pacific.mitre.org (Jeff Heimberger)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 17:18:04 GMT
Organization: The MITRE Corporation

In article <gate.VBB1TB1w165w@pil.UUCP> alizard@pil.UUCP writes:
>> Please cite your evidence, and use documented, verifiable sources...
>> not a challenge, just a request.
>
>In this context, I'm stating that the Religious Radical Right = the National
>and Calif. State GOP. If you want verification on this, get a copy of the
>platforms of these organizations. 

This may be true with the platforms (Republicans who write such things
are typically much more conservative than most people who vote
Republican, just as Democrats who write their platform are much more
liberal than most people who vote Democrat), but I'd suggest the result
of the recent election shows (moderate) people are fed up with the
religious radical right.

>The first example that comes to mind is the recent account of a Wiccan group
>in Walnut Creek, CA that protested a lecture given to the Traditional Values
>Coalition on the subject of Wicca... identifying Wicca with Satanism. (I'd
>use [Traditional Values Coalition] [Wicca] [Walnut Creek] as search keywords)

Really?  What happened?  I have no access to news services (that I know
of), just Internet.

>Other examples of organized Christian attacks on minorites perceived to be
>anti-Christian can be found in Propositions 2 and 9, the anti-gay initiatives.
>This is based on the assumption that ANY visibly non-Christian group (e.g.
>pagans) is a probable target. 

This is a good example that I'm aware of, and I'm personally  glad that
Prop 9 failed and astonished that Prop 2 passed.

>For more info, your options are to wait for feedback on the newsgroup or
>wait for me to do a search of my HD and floppies... I have other interesting
>examples, some of which never made the media... 

Please search your HD... :-)

>Or, you can run more keyword searches using the obvious keywords on the wire
>service or New York Times databases... you might find digging the raw info
>yourself out more convincing... (besides, it's easier to put something ONTO
>my HD than dig it out... especially when EVERYTHING is in compressed archive
>format)

Again, I don't have access to the news services.

Thanks,

Jeff H...

==============================================================================
 Jeff Heimberger                                 If I want your opinion, I'll
 heimberg@pacific.mitre.org                         read it in your entrails.
==============================================================================
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: holzman@fnalno.fnal.gov (Daniel B. Holzman)
Subject: Re: Women and Men Witches
Organization: Fermi National Accelerator Lab
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 22:12:08 GMT
X-Posted-From: fnalno.fnal.gov
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1992Nov12.101102.44673@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>, 
kumagic@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (Stephen R. Figgins) writes:


>> 2) From whence comes this "first female"?
> 
> Some say she fell from the sky, others that she has always been.  In
> my mythology, she is the very universe, and we just tiny reflective
> parts of her whole.  But I suppose as far as what we consider life on
> earth, she would be the very first cell that has split, and changed
> and grown, weaving with the fabric of this planet to become this
> wonderous biosphere.  Have you read _Lives of a Cell?  I think it is a
> very spiritual book.

The thing is, that I could say all this about the God as well.

> It depends on what you mean by supremacy I suppose.  To me she is
> supreme because she is all and gives birth to us all.  

Perhaps your definition of supremacy might be useful.

> Note I am more a female supremacist than I am a woman supremacist.  

Perhaps your distinction between "female" and "woman" would be useful as well. 
I get the feeling that we might be speaking different languages here.

> I don't think men would do very well without women.  

I know a number of gay men who would disagree.

> I didn't find your other comments to be worthy of much response.  Was
> there anything in particular you really wanted to see addressed David?
> I will try to answer it.

Who's David?  I'm Daniel.
-- 
Daniel B. Holzman                    | Eight Words the Witch's Rede Fufill:
HOLZMAN@FNAL.BITNET                  | An It Harm None, Do What You Will
HOLZMAN@FNALC.FNAL.GOV.INTERNET      |
                                     | All Acts of Love and Pleasure are
Love doesn't subtract,               | Her Rituals
   it multiplies    - Heinlein       |
                                     | Speak the Word.
Disclaimer:  Fermilab's far too large to have an opinion, let alone mine.
From: falcore@gatecom.UUCP (Carolyn C. Doss L.V.T.)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Hello?
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 92 14:25:32 EST
Organization: Gateway Communication Inc.

Blessings to all,

        Have you been getting my posts ...just wondering since I've gotten 
no replies on my latest post ........OK so I am an overzealous "born again " 
Pagan.....what can I say , I finaLlly feel at home with myself 8-) !  

        I am also starved for as much info as I can put into my brain ...I 
have read some of Cunninghams' books and am currently reading Drawing Down 
the Moon .......I am serious people! Honest......and I would like to meet 
more folk who share my ideals .....Thanks for putting up with my pesty 
posts.

        Blessed Be and may the Goddess and God guide your life journeys!

        Carolyn aka. Falcore


//////////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
\\\\      Falcore@gatecom.UUCP (Carolyn C. Doss L.V.T. )     ////
////                    I Love My Critters !!                \\\\
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\///////////////////////////////////
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: mkkuhner@phylo.genetics.washington.edu (Mary K. Kuhner)
Subject: Re: Reconciling BDSM and Pagan Beliefs
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 22:43:51 GMT

GC.GGG@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gwyn Gordon) writes:

>I guess I disagree with you that "BDSM activities don't have any
>gender polarity." It seems that the rituals, when acted out, are
>different depending upon whether it's the Horned God on top, or the
>King of the Corn surrendering to the Earth Mother. Maybe you're
>right, maybe there is no difference...but that seems mighty
>simplistic to me.

>=gwyn "mountains out of molehills" gordon

But the person enacting the part of the Horned God can be of either
gender; the gender of the archetype doesn't have to match the gender 
of the participant.  I have 'been' male in BDSM roleplaying, responding
to my partner as to a 'female', even though biologically I am female and 
he is male.

In any case--yes, for a particular pair of people it matters who is
dominant and who is submissive, who is playing a male and who a female
role, who is actuallly male and who is actually female (none of these
things have to match up the way you might think).  But isn't it a bit
sexist to expect that it will matter in the same way to everyone--that
*any* male playing the role of the Horned One will have similar
experiences or run similar risks?  People are individuals before they're
examples of 'male' or 'female'.
 
I guess I just prickle at 'You shouldn't do that because you're a
woman', whether it comes from a feminist or a male chauvinist....and
that is what I see a lot of the concerns about BDSM working out to in
practice--that I shouldn't admit to or express submissive desires, 
because I'm female.  I can't accept that.

Storm/Mary K. Kuhner mkkuhner@genetics.washington.edu
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,alt.magick
From: andrew@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu (CHIHUAHUA CHARLIE)
Subject: Re: Santeria
Originator: usenet@midway.ecn.uoknor.edu
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 19:48:00 GMT
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Oklahoma - University Computing Services

In article <Bx9MK7.GJ8@inews.Intel.COM>, pharvey@mipos3.intel.com (Paul Harvey) writes...
>In article <68938@cup.portal.com> 
>Tagi@cup.portal.com (Thyagi Morgoth NagaSiva) writes:
>>"I wanna be loved by you
>>By you, and nobody else but you.
>>I wanna be loved by you alooooone.
>>Boop-oop-ee-doo!"
>>Dunno the name of the song, but Marilyn Monroe is the one I
>>remember who sang it. ;>
> 
>Hmm, I'm thinkin' Betty Boop which proceeds Norma Jean.

No, it was Ginger, from Giligan's Island!
From: pharvey@mipos3.intel.com (Paul Harvey)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re:  Tipper Gore? (Re: the US elections...)
Date: 12 Nov 92 20:18:25 GMT
	<2B005554.20979@news.service.uci.edu> <larne.03w8@canetoad.UUCP>
Organization: 1992, and rule number one? Get yo'self a crew!

In article <larne.03w8@canetoad.UUCP> 
larne@canetoad.UUCP (Larne Pekowsky) writes:
>In article <2B005554.20979@news.service.uci.edu> 
cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
>>and quite frankly I'd like to see just ONE female singer who has a well-
>>developed sexuality who doesn't pose for pornie mags, just ONE who
>>doesn't attempt to make money off of the slut stereotype.
>1) Kate Bush
>2) Tori Amos (who uses the word 'Goddess' in concerts more often than one would

Sister Souljah, Queen Latifah, MC Lite, YoYo, Nenah Cherry ...

We're just scratching the surface here. But, about this Madonna thing:
Personally she doesn't really do much for me, but there are those who claim
her to be a great artist, presumably her campiness is satire. I believe one
quote I saw was that people say that we should remove the masks but Madonna
is saying that all we are is the masks. Make of that as you like. Be seeing
you!
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: DAMN THIS LIE!!!!
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 07:42:13 GMT

ksm@abb-sc.abb-sc.com (Ashley) writes:

: 	We can only hope Clinton represents a change for the better. 

Fat chance. The Democratic party has historically been the greatest
force in increasing government control over the population. However,
these days, it seems that the Republicans are just about as bad.

Talk about lousy choices - too bad the third party candidates in this
country do not have a chance. Our new president was elected on a
plurality, not with a majority of the votes.

Bill
From: ksm@abb-sc.abb-sc.com (Ashley)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Laws and Discrimination (was that goddamned Measure 9)
Date: 5 Nov 92 19:27:07 GMT
Organization: Kaos Laboratories


In article <Bx92tG.AzH@access.digex.com>, corun@access.digex.com (Corun MacAnndra) writes...
>In article <1992Nov4.185812.10956@radian.uucp> markbr%radian@natinst.com (markbr) writes:
>>

>My sister is from Colorado, and I had a long talk with her before the
>election about CO 2. She was going to vote yes, and I had her read the
>bill to me. It was written in serious Weasel Speak. It was so twisted
>that it made people think that voting no would allow MORE than eqaul
>rights to gay/bi/lesbians. I was able to translate it for her and make
>her see what voting yes would really do, so I managed at least one no
>vote out there.
>Bb,
>Corun

	Okay, here I go sticking my neck out. Although I oppose any form of 
discrimintaion, (and measures 9 and 2 are indeed just that) we have to be 
careful how we word our legislation to protect the rights of those who are 
disenfranchised. I am sure many of you have seen situations where a less 
competent candidate for a job recieved the position due to their status as a 
minority of some sort. I have seen this occur and I would support 
legislation to make sure that no one got preferencial treatment, no matter 
what color, creed, sex, religion or sexual preference they where. 

	A person should not be able to threaten a potential employer with a 
discrimiation lawsuit to bully them into awarding a job to them if they are 
not the best qualified applicant. Although this does not happen often, and I 
would rather live with this than the rampant discrimination our current laws 
protect us from, I cannot help but feel that there must be a compromise, a 
middle ground or a way to safeguard against this.

	Discussion anyone?

				- Ashley
From: alizard@pil.UUCP
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: re: how the hell can religion and action not be related?
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 92 03:28:00 PST

Re: Re: How the hell can religion and action not be related?
By: banerjee #0 @titan.trl.OZ.AU (Arindam Banerjee) USEnet      
 
> From: banerjee@titan.trl.OZ.AU (Arindam Banerjee)
> Newsgroups: alt.pagan
> Subject: Re: How the hell can religion and action not be related?
> Date: 9 Nov 92 02:44:36 GMT
> One of them got up. He said politely: "Sir, the basil plant is really
> related to the child Krishna, that is Gopal. If you really want to show
> us the power of your god, try rubbing this. This plant is related to the
> goddess Kali."
> "Now I will show you fools how much I care for your goddess Kali!" And
> the missionary very thoroughly rubbed the plant all over his bare
> behind.
> The next minute he was howling with pain. For the plant was what we call
> "bichuti", which we all do well to avoid. 
> The missionary ran away, never to return.

Now HERE is a story with a happy ending... well, I hope it spreads to 
everywhere that needs it... any location that is likely to be invaded by
Christian missionaries... most places have an equivalent for the "bichuti"
plant, ours (context - USA) is poison ivy/poison oak... a rather nasty
skin irritant oil... causes itching, rashes, etc... and DON'T burn the stuff.

So what does "bichuti" do, and does it have any sort of medicinal value?

blessings
                                                 A.Lizard
====== 93 ====== mea saurus, mea saurus, mea maxima saurus! ====== 93 ======
                  (slogan contributed by Jessica McGeary)
Mail to me should be sent to:       |  There are no fnords in this sig file.
alizard%tweekco%boo@PacBell.COM     |  autoreply to address I posted this
     ^^^ preferred site ^^^         |  from only if you want to wait a
PacBell.COM!boo!tweekco!alizard     |  solstice or two for my answer.
alizard@seer.mystic.com(backup site)|              Kallisti!
From: cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Subject: Re: Tipper Gore? (Re: the US elections...)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 11 Nov 92 00:35:32 GMT
Distribution: usa

In article <1992Nov10.223303.28585@s1.gov> lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich) writes:
>
>	[On the whole Tipper Gore question...]
>
>	There is the interesting question of what to do about sexually
>suggestive yet inexplicit lyrics, or even sexually explicity yet
>nonhostile lyrics. Janis Maria Cortese complains rightly about Heavy
>Metal and Rap "songs" that feature misogynist, sexually exploitative
>lyrics, as if women are to be possessed and used for the (male)
>singers' pleasure. But what about (say) this example? [It was taken
>from Madonna's most recent album, _Erotica_]:

[song deleted]

>	What would Tipper Gore think?

I sure as hell hope that's a rhetorical question . . . and even though
you didn't ask what Janis Cortese would think, you're going to get it! 

The problem that I have with it is the interpretation that it's bound to
receive, and that's not so much a problem with the song as with the
people who listen to it.  I mean, let's face it -- it IS where life
begins.  Read "The Exaltation of Inanna" a little and you'll find
sections that are indistinguishable from a Madonna song.

When I hear/read stuff like this and think about how something like this
-- quite nice and innocent -- has been so damned perverted into filth,
it just makes me want to scream.

I also highly doubt that Madonna wrote and sung the thing with anything
other than $$$$ in mind; she is nothing so much as a master marketer.
HOWever, if we are to take the song as itself -- which we should -- I
don't find a problem.

As far as Madonna goes -- my jury is still out.  She comes across as a
complete slut -- the typical casting of any woman with her own
sexuality, and I'm not sure if that's my socialization of "Any woman
with her own sex is a slut" talking, or whether or not Madonna is indeed
working to portray just that slutty image.  I much prefer Mae West
myself.  She was an older woman in her movies, generously shaped, and
absolutely *imperturbable*.  I still remember the line she used when
handing a fur stole (I know, I know) over to a hatcheck girl who
remarked," Goodness, what big diamonds!"  She replied VERY calmly,
"Honey, goodness had nothing to do with it."  She was not a Barbie doll
OR a slut in the same vein as Madonna.  She was older (maybe that's what
I like) and she had this utter air of calm and complete control about
her.  I prefer her to Madonna.  But, as to whether or not Madonna is
consciously trying to be a slut . . . I don't know.  Gut hunch says yes,
and quite frankly I'd like to see just ONE female singer who has a well-
developed sexuality who doesn't pose for pornie mags, just ONE who
doesn't attempt to make money off of the slut stereotype.  (I guess she
is in it for the cash, though, let's face it.)

This is wandering.  I'll stop now.

Blessings,
Janis  
Newsgroups: alt.pagan