HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Jim Ogle (Ks. Jim) <jogle@aoc.nrao.edu>
Subject: Re: another Nippon goof?
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 12:08:47 GMT

Alix writes:

> But have you ever wondered what the Strike maneuver does. In our book it
> doesn't actually list the game effect, just a big build up about how it's
> not as good as some other maneuvers. Can anyone tell me what its effect is.

I've always assumed that the Strike was the basic martial arts attack
maneuver and all it does is allows you to get the +2 damage bonus that
Martial Arts gives you anyway (why they bothered making it a maneuver
and why some styles don't get it but get the +2 damage modifier anyway
kind of invalidates the idea but it was the best I came up with).

Kansas Jim (jogle@aoc.nrao.edu)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: Jim Ogle (Ks. Jim) <jogle@aoc.nrao.edu>
Subject: Re: another Nippon goof?
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
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Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 17:54:41 GMT

Chris writes:
> 
> > I just remembered what it was I decided that Strike does for you - it
> > allows you to use your Martial Arts as a killing attack.  In other
> > words, once you've learned Strike your attacks are not considered stun
> > attacks and the wound level is not reduced by one.
> 
> Bad move, KJ. I think you just broke about every other manuever in the book.
> 
> Take for instance, Stun Attack, which allows you to make a Stunning Attack
> (at +2, mind you).

Stun Attack I keep as a stun attack regardless, but note that I said
Strike _allows_ you to use your MA for normal instead of stun damage.
You wouldn't have to though if you didn't want to kill your opponent.

> Or things like Iron Fist or Stone Fist, which certainly sound like extremely
> damaging strikes intended to do real killing damage. If they are not killing
> damage strikes, then why does the book say that Strike is not a particularly
> potent manuever?

Well, Strike as written up does exactly nothing that basic martial
arts doesn't already do (+2 dmg bonus) so that would certainly qualify
as not being very potent.

Yes, under my rule Strike does become a very useful maneuver -
especially when used in conjunction with other maneuvers like Iron
Fist.  What I let it do is once you've learned Strike all your MA
attacks are treated as normal attacks (ie, no damage reduction due to
it being a stunning attack) unless the maneuver specifies that it
isn't (Stunning Attack for example).

> BUT, is there a rule somewhere that tags Unarmed Combat damage as non-killing
> damage? We've never reduced damage from Unarmed Combat attacks.

Yes, there is.  I don't have my rulesbook with me but it is in there
in the combat chapter.  I believe it is under the Stun Damage section
or something like that.

Kansas Jim (jogle@aoc.nrao.edu)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: wolf@cheshire.oxy.edu (Clinton Richard Wolf)
Subject: Re: cosm placement (hindsight) (was Re: GENcon)
Organization: Occidental College, Los Angeles, CA 90041 USA.
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 21:11:49 GMT

In article <gatemail1.0b240130571171@morticia> Jim Ogle (Ks. Jim) <jogle@aoc.nrao.edu> writes:
>Clinton writes:
>
>>Absolutely correct! Think of it, guys... I mean, REALLY think... 17 is the Sp.
>>level where 'sites become repeating sources of Spiritual power. LL is 7 points
>>HIGHER than that! Every foray into the Living Land should be a new, exciting,
>>and dangerous experience, as the Amerindian mythos are brought to life and mir
>>aculous events and wondrous visions occur... Sp. 24 is enough for some comple-
>> tely mind-numbing sights! LL has a de facto Law of Wonders, IMHO... 
>
>Well, the reason you don't get the Amerindian mythos coming back
>(unlike the Greek Gods coming back in Crete due to the Nile invasion)
>is because the Spirit axiom of the Living Land is high enough that
>Lanala can keep out competing religions (they become a contradiction).
>
 Ah! But here's my kludge (WEG certainly couldn't tell me it's farfetched. 
They've done much worse things ;) ...
 The Amerindian Mythos return... it's just that everything in it are facets of
Lanala! 'A Lanala by any other name...' and all that. Really nasty evil beings
are manifestations of the Nameless One's power, given life by Kaah's delvings
into the evil and destructive power of the DD...
 I'm going to develop this concept further in my Crater Lake adventure, which
if it comes out right will either make your SK's clamor for more, or avoid the
LL like the plague (but for Orrorshan type reasons, not player discontent) ;)

>(c'mon, there are exactly two miracles that take
>advantage of the really high spiritual axiom and they are both
>one-shot miracles found in the Rec Stalek module).
>
 Would you mind posting those miracles? Or are they really just one-shot and
adventure specific...


Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: alix@solwarra.gbrmpa.gov.au (Alix Walker )
Subject: Re: super skill grumbles
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 12:50:59 GMT

>   I don't know; I've always been in favor of plusses for particularly good
> tricks, etc, and giving minuses for only the most banal of ploys.  There are
> two good reasons for this:

Of coarse you give pluses for clever ideas, but in the example the idea was "I
fall down in front of all these people with guns, with little explanation, as
my only explanation is that I have a Trick of 30, nothing else is needed." I
hoped that the example made it clear just how ridiculous this would look if
you were the shocktrooper watching. Reward good play, but penalize poor.

>   1)  If the player uses the same trick over and over again, many GM's will
> give penalties for using the "same old stuff", not taking into account that
> this is likely the first time the NPC's in question have seen the hero 
> perform this ruse.

Yes of course. The greatest, simplest, and most used Trick in the book is "I
throw sand in his face". Everyone does it, and everyone falls for it, though
it is as old as this cliche. I don't penalize the reuse of an old Trick, but
I do ask for plausability. That is why the DN modifier chart is there, to
take into account those harder to do things, like that stupid Trick. I let
anyone do anything.

>   2)  It is, after all, the character and not the player who has the skill.
> Do you make your ninja's player demonstrate every spinning back kick?  Do
> you penalize him with added difficulty if he can't do it?  A character with a
> trick of 30 (better than the quoted values for Einstein in "science") should
> be able to come up with *something*, even if the player is at a loss. . .	
> 

No I don't make ninga's perform back flips, but I do ask him (yes we have one)
what he is doing. You mention earlier that players are to be rewarded when they
play particularly well. Here the player has come up with a GOOD idea. But when
that same player comes up with a BAD idea you seem reluctant to penalize
them. The character is not just the numbers on the page, and Tricks donot
succeed just because that number is 30. As GM you must walk a line between
letting the player who is probably not Einstein enjoy playing the Obsessed
Prodigy with Mind 13. You cannot help them all the time, answer all their
questions, "just because I have a high Mind value". The same is for Trick.
If the player is to merely say "I Trick him/her" then where is the fun, the
action which is the hallmark of Torg. The minute the player describes what
is happening, then you must modify the GOOD and the BAD, and help the genius
who isn't one,

Winston (alone in his box with his humble opinions)

P.S I apologize for this long and not particularly coherent reply.

Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: michael@stb.info.com (Michael Gersten)
Subject: Magic as mechanism and spell difficulty
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 02:35:00 GMT

 ! Bzzzttt! Wrong answer.  The way to get past the power push table is to
 ! use magic as the mechanism.  Any other mechanism requires that the
 ! result points be pushed.

>and using magic as the mechanism increases the base difficulty,
>and since a day is TORG val 18, we are still talking an effect of 26

Ok, how does using magic as the mechanism increas the base difficulty?
I know that it increases the state path, but I have never seen that  
dominate the total spell sum.
--
		Michael Gersten		michael@stb.info.com
HELLO! I'm a signature virus! Join in the fun and copy me into yours!
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Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: cpearce%nemesis@nemesis.acs.unt.edu (Chris Pearce)
Subject: Re: another Nippon goof?
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 16:41:56 GMT

> I just remembered what it was I decided that Strike does for you - it
> allows you to use your Martial Arts as a killing attack.  In other
> words, once you've learned Strike your attacks are not considered stun
> attacks and the wound level is not reduced by one.

Bad move, KJ. I think you just broke about every other manuever in the book.

Take for instance, Stun Attack, which allows you to make a Stunning Attack
(at +2, mind you).

Or things like Iron Fist or Stone Fist, which certainly sound like extremely
damaging strikes intended to do real killing damage. If they are not killing
damage strikes, then why does the book say that Strike is not a particularly
potent manuever?

BUT, is there a rule somewhere that tags Unarmed Combat damage as non-killing
damage? We've never reduced damage from Unarmed Combat attacks.


> Kansas Jim (jogle@aoc.nrao.edu)

-- 
Chris Pearce -- cpearce@nemesis.acs.unt.edu
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: bpostow@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Brian Postow)
Subject: Re: A quote
Organization: Oberlin College Computer Science
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 21:21:51 GMT
X-Posted-From: occs.cs.oberlin.edu
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

um... clay? what was that a quote of?

--
Brian Postow :: The Pasta Knight - that noodle head in shiny armour

Didn't your parents tell you not to talk to strangers?
	And I'm STAAANGER than you are!
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: Rick Jones <albert@crick.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu>
Subject: Jez's boyfriend
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 14:53:48 GMT

	My bet is for one of Kanawa's clones to fall in love with 
Jez.  He popped into my head as the obvious one.  (IMHO, Mobius is 
too much a looney to get involved with anyone.)
	I see it as sort of a love/hate relationship (Laws of Pain, Domination
and Intrigue blending in one sick masss).  I always wanted to have fun with
Kanawa, but my players are a bit too silly for Marketplace.  Orrorsh, I'm
afraid, is mostly wasted on them, no matter how much I try to scare them,
one of them quotes Ren and Stimpy, and we all break up.  
	Works great for Nile adventures, tho.

	Mobius' relationships would go like this:
PRIEST:  Do you, Ming the Merciless, ruler of the universe, take
         this Earthling Dale Arden as your Empress of the hour?
MING:    Of the hour...yes.
PRIEST:  And do you promise to use her as you will?
MING:    Certainly.
PRIEST:  And do you promise not to blast her into space?
[MING shoots a "how dare you?" look at PRIEST]
PRIEST:  Uh...until such time as you grow weary of her?
MING:    I do.
DALE:    I do *not*!

-- 
Rick Jones				Systems Support Center
albert@bcm.tmc.edu			Baylor College of Medicine
Voice: 713-798-7352			standard disclaimers apply
    Wanted:Scrodinger's Cat.  Dead or Alive.  $10,000 Reward.
From: alix@solwarra.gbrmpa.gov.au (Alix Walker )
Subject: Re: Stuff more rediculous than the Gravitic Ray Gun
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 04:14:44 GMT

> > 1.  The Ayslish miracle "Wrath of the Gods".  It has a 
> > base damage of the castor's faith plus the total on 
> > the die.  Not the bonus number from the chart.  The
> > total of the die.
> 
> I've always wondered what they were thinking when they made this one
> up; it goes so much against the grain of Torg's mechanics I'm
> convinced that the writeup is some kind of massive typo (or one of the
> infamous editing problems!)
>

Yes, I too believe that this one slipped through WEG's vaccuum sealed
editing process. The wording is (hopefully) just a convoluted way of
saying, Faith + Bonus Number = Damage, but alas the text seems
pretty explicit that this is NOT the case.

 > 2.  The Coar miracle "Spirit Sword".  It has a base damage
> > of faith plus the result points of the miracle.  The 
> > miracle diffuculty is 5, so a priest with a faith of say
> > 17 getting a zero bonus on the die would do base damage
> > of 17 + (17 - 5) = 29.  Now consider what the damage 
> > would be if the player spent a possibility while invoking
> > it.
> 
> This is of course the Space Gods version of the Star Wars light saber;
> I don't really mind it even though it can be ungodly simply because
> almost all of the SG weapons are ugly (ok, so technically its not a
> weapon, but I think they just did light sabers this way because they
> couldn't figure out a biotech method of making one - though I don't
> see why not since the gravitic ray is a biotech weapon).
>

So is a TORG jedi Coar aligned, I thought they might be Zinatt? Oh well,
who said they had to match.

> 
> Nippon Tech - Like CE there's martial arts, and having the financial
> backing of a mega-corp (Mega Corp CEO template) can make a person
> really dangerous ("Arrange for a wing of our corp's attack helicopters
> to be available for this mission I'm going on."  "Yes sir!")
> 

I'v been waiting for our Mega-corp CEO to die by assaination, so I can
step in. Do you realize how much power 1 billon yen gives one person.
Your example above is only the tip of the iceberg. Powerful people
often have powerful friends (and enemies too), who can help with other
powerful connections. Give me a martial artist CEO, with Science
and a tech axiom of 24 any day. At that level some Nile powers can
be replicated with only Science and the money to finance them.

Winston (in a marketplace)

Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: Jim Ogle (Ks. Jim) <jogle@aoc.nrao.edu>
Subject: Re: cosm placement (hindsight) (was Re: GENcon)
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 06:30:46 GMT

Clinton writes:

>Absolutely correct! Think of it, guys... I mean, REALLY think... 17 is the Sp.
>level where 'sites become repeating sources of Spiritual power. LL is 7 points
>HIGHER than that! Every foray into the Living Land should be a new, exciting,
>and dangerous experience, as the Amerindian mythos are brought to life and mir
>aculous events and wondrous visions occur... Sp. 24 is enough for some comple-
> tely mind-numbing sights! LL has a de facto Law of Wonders, IMHO... 

Well, the reason you don't get the Amerindian mythos coming back
(unlike the Greek Gods coming back in Crete due to the Nile invasion)
is because the Spirit axiom of the Living Land is high enough that
Lanala can keep out competing religions (they become a contradiction).

But yes, it should be an unusual and deeply affecting adventure to go
into the Living Land ("to become part of Lanala") but WEG didn't
develop it that way (c'mon, there are exactly two miracles that take
advantage of the really high spiritual axiom and they are both
one-shot miracles found in the Rec Stalek module).

Oh well....

Kansas Jim (jogle@aoc.nrao.edu)
From: jogle@aoc.nrao.edu (Ks. Jim)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
Subject: Re:  Orrorsh/New Orleans
Date: 27 Aug 92 01:45:02 GMT
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b

Kevin writes:

> > Well, Orrorsh is already showing up in New Orleans (last couple of
> > Infiniverse issues) so it will probably be busy there soon after the
> 
> Isn't it kind of silly to come out with 'The Delphi Council
> Worldbook', which specifically mentions the neat differences in core
> earth at New Orleans and then to mess it up by invading it?

But New Orleans is no different from the rest of Core Earth.  Voodoo
is at work there but the axioms have not shifted as belief isn't
strong enough there.

Kansas Jim (jogle@aoc.nrao.edu)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: "James H. Kiley" <jkiley@andy.bgsu.edu>
Subject: Munchkin control (was re: GenCon)
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 00:20:49 GMT



On Fri, 28 Aug 1992, Jim Ogle wrote:

> Clinton writes:
> 
> >This is just an observation, but there IS a balancing factor for Gravitic Rays
> > (as well as other munchkinish Biotech weapons.) In anyplace but Akasha, these
> >things DIE!! Sure, your Monitor SK can tote one around through the Living Land
> >or CE, but when he disconnects, the device starts taking a wound per round un-
> > til he reconnects. Can he reconnect in time? (four rounds). Let's see... with
> > the modifiers to the Reality difficulty (from the tool having a higher tech
> > axiom)... to reconnect in CE takes 18 (already an ouch), and to reconnect in
> > the LL (heh,heh...) ... 48!!!!! (Dif.25 + (30 - 7))
> 
> Well, a monitor would just have the base of 25, as the penalty for
> axiom differences only applies to four-case contradictions.

If you have problems with serious abuse of this sort of thing by players
then extending that penalty to one-case contradictions isn't that big a
deal.  My players wouldn't even notice... :)

(Okay, okay, I admit that there are *thousands* of ways to deal with munchkin
players abusing the technology given in the game, this is just one...)

> Kansas Jim (jogle@aoc.nrao.edu)

!(Kansas) Jim (jkiley@andy.bgsu.edu)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: michael@stb.info.com (Michael Gersten)
Subject: Plans for people's cosmverses...
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 07:22:00 GMT


michael@stb.info.com (Michael Gersten) writes, in part:

>6. Amber (Hey, they gotta be there :-)
>	The description of Apherios is almost a perfect match for the pattern.
>Logrous (second series, 3rd or 4th book, where they are revealed to be  

>actual creatures with little (or no) regard for their worshippers except as  

>tools to be used). Not really an invasion, just a background.

While the descriptions of the Pattern and Logrus might match those of
Apeiros and The Nameless One, the mechanics of reality don't quite
seem to fit TORG. How do you explain the fact that, although most
high-tech items don't seem to work in Amber (Corwin's special gun-
powder being the major exception), high-tech _principles_ (the major
example I can think of being medicine) -- which should be impossible
by the TORG rules -- are used to great effect by the Amberites?

-- Tim Soholt (xoanon@carina.unm.edu), The Man With No .sig
----
Simple. World laws. 


Or, classify them as social. Either way, its doable.

Put it this way: It should never have any direct effect on the game. If a PC  
winds up in amber, something is probably very, very, VERY wrong. Still, in my  
live game I had one PC in the presense of Ardinay in one scene, and the Gaunt  
Man the next scene (about 2 minutes apart). GM gave him an offer that he,  
hmm, well, not quite "could not" refuse, but more like "could not refuse for  
long". Had a great way of travel. Only went to GM because he was detected,  
and it was thought to be interesting enough to warrent proper investigation.

(Like I said, no more PC vampires. Mist form, and hide inside someone's lungs.)
--
		Michael Gersten		michael@stb.info.com
HELLO! I'm a signature virus! Join in the fun and copy me into yours!
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Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: bpostow@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Brian Postow)
Subject: Re: GenCon Report (Incredibly long, thousands of spoilers)
Organization: Oberlin College Computer Science
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 19:57:28 GMT
X-Posted-From: occs.cs.oberlin.edu
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

two questions: 
1) what is 5 realms?

2) has anyone noticed, and come up with a reason for the recent surge
in non-continuous cosms? ex: CP in Quebec, NE/thark in Berlin, CP in
Brazil, etc. what are NE/thark.NT doing in Berlin? how did they get
there? 

--
Brian Postow :: The Pasta Knight - that noodle head in shiny armour

Didn't your parents tell you not to talk to strangers?
	And I'm STAAANGER than you are!
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: wolf@cheshire.oxy.edu (Clinton Richard Wolf)
Subject: Re: LL miracles -- high spiritual axiom
Organization: Occidental College, Los Angeles, CA 90041 USA.
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 19:55:13 GMT

In article <gatemail1.0b240233154615@morticia> michael@stb.info.com (Michael Gersten) writes:
>I've been giving some thought to what a high spiritual  
>axioms would allow for in miracles.
>
>1. Area affect miracles. Many miracles of lanala are range  
>touch, and low axioms; why not a higher axiom version that  
>is area affect?
>
 Heh, sounds good (now Taztor CAN use that Heightened Taste at range ;-) )
>
 (Wonderful section on the culture of a highly Spiritual cosm deleted, but def-
inetely praised! (makes LL much more interestin'))@

>ETC. Look around you -- everything that you see done with  
>tech can be duplicated with spiritual at that level.
>
>		Michael
 Wow! Exactly what I was thinking! "Any sufficiently divine belief is equival-
ent to..." and all that (to paraphrase Mr. Clarke).
From: alix@solwarra.gbrmpa.gov.au (Alix Walker )
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
Subject: Re: another Nippon goof?
Date: 31 Aug 92 04:44:58 GMT
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b

> I just remembered what it was I decided that Strike does for you - it
> allows you to use your Martial Arts as a killing attack.  In other
> words, once you've learned Strike your attacks are not considered stun
> attacks and the wound level is not reduced by one.
> 
Thanks Jim, can you remember the source so that i can tell my GM (untrusting
sod). well not really, we all just like to know.

Winston (now in a lethal box)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg