HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Laurie.Appleton@p1.f316.n640.z3.fidonet.org (Laurie Appleton)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.science
Subject: UFO's
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 92 09:54:44 PDT
Organization: FidoNet node 3:640/316.1 - The Galaxy GateWay , Minden Qld Australia

JB>anything is possible, and it would not surprise me if in fact,JB>UFO's do exsist.  I have many questions about this subject, for

 JK> Of course they exist!  The Universe is to big for us to be alone...

   Does that mean that a Universe only a few million years old might
 have only ONE planet on which there was life?  I mean at such a
 small 'age' there might not have been time for any other life
 to have developed anywhere?  After all scientist tell us that
 life only arose here on earth about 3.8 billion years ago.

  Isn't there just as much chance that we were the FIRST and
 that we might be the ones that are the most advanced?

 JK> Naw... like I said, there are too many not to be true.

    Fascinating logic!! I guess you mean that where there is
 smoke there is fire or something like that!!  It surely does
 not follow that the 'smoke' means that there are UFOS of
 course.  It might just as easily mean that there more people on
 drugs these days or people who will go to any lengths to get
 into the news and a bit of publicity!!

    So, there really isn't any 'hard' evidence for UFO'S is
 there?  I mean we really don't have any pieces of crashed UFO's
 in any Museums do we?

 Laurie



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Newsgroups: k12.ed.science
From: danwell@IASTATE.EDU (Daniel A Ashlock)
Subject: Re: Evolution
Reply-To: danwell@IASTATE.EDU (Daniel A Ashlock)
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 18:59:17 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.154158.12539@isc-br.isc-br.com>, bruceh@access.isc-br.com
(Bruce Hogan) writes:
                       [some stuff deleted to save space]

> The Scriptures say that, originally, the firmament (land) separated the
waters
> that were above and the waters that were below (Genesis 1) and when the
world-
> wide flood occurred, the fountains of the deep were broken up and the windows
> of heaven were opened, and it rained.  Prior to this it is mentioned that
> dew watered the earth; rain is never mentioned (doesn't prove it didn't
exist,
> but follow through here).  What the Creation model depicts here is that there
> was a water envelope covering the earth that worked like a 'hot-house' in
> that it kept the temperature and moisture factors in a tropical-like state
> around the earth.  This would explain a number of interesting facts about 
> the fossil record like the one you mentioned and also, why, all over the 
> earth are millions and millions of fossil remains buried in sedimentary 
> layers.

   The problem with this model is that there isn't any observation evidence in
favor of it and huge amounts of observational evidence against it.  For example
it is dead obvious that there never was a world wide flood.  Such a flood would
have left huge amounts of evidence in the geological column and it didn't.

   Likewise if there was a vapor canopy with all that water in it then the
conversion of potential energy of position to kenetic and finally thermal
energy as it descended would have causes a huge heat spike (probably enough to
kill large numbers of animals) and yet there is no evidence that this happened.

   The probem is that the Bible is not a scientific document nor is it
literally true; it is alegorical: a collection of stories.  The scientific
community used to believe the bible was scientifically correct (about 100-150
years ago) and changed their mind because of mounting evidence.  The first big
piece of evidence was the geologic column.  Given the observed rates of
vulcanism, sedimentation, etc. the rocks and formations we obseve point to an
earth at least hundreds of times older than the one literally described in the
bible.  The theory of evolution got into this process rather late; other lines
of evidence had already completely invalidated the idea that the bible
correctly portrays the entire history of the earth.
 
   I leave someone else to speak to the idea that the vapor canopy allowed
people to live to great ages to someone else.

Dan
Danwell@IASTATE.EDU
From: Lowell.Herr@f32.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Lowell Herr)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.science
Subject: RELIGION, SKIING AND
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 19:45:02 PDT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:105/32 - On-Line Mutual Fund, Portland OR

 > JS DW> The Bible is an interpretation of God's word by men.  They were holy
 > JS DW> men, but men just the same.  Why would God only speak to Christians

I think there is a Religion Echo that would be more appropriate for this tread
 of postings.  Thank you for your cooperation.

Moderator of Science Echo 

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Newsgroups: k12.ed.science
From: danwell@IASTATE.EDU (Daniel A Ashlock)
Subject: Re: SPECIATION (WAS: "RE:
Reply-To: danwell@IASTATE.EDU (Daniel A Ashlock)
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 20:40:22 GMT

In article <28853.2B297954@puddle.fidonet.org>,
Jerry.Saville@f2051.n147.z1.fidonet.org (Jerry Saville) writes:
>  -=> Quoting Chris Stassen to All <=-
> 
>  CS> And even
>  CS> though one must hold one's nose while doing so, it is a good idea to
>  CS> familiarize one's self with creationist materials (e.g., [11]).
> 
>   Why, sir, do you attempt to "preopinionate" these young people with your
>   slashing remarks?
>   I think that you should let the material stand for itself.

   No, this would be a very poor idea.  When creationists
speak of scientific matter concerning evolution they brand
it as atheistic, evil, and nonsensical.  They do not allow
the scientific matter to speak for itself. Allowing the
creationist material to appear without comment would be
completely unfair.

   In addition creationists material is designed to sound
scientific in a fashion that is totally dishonest and below
board.  Creationists have, in my personal experience, quoted
scientists by taking pieces of a work selectively in a
fashion that makes it appear that the scientist is attacking
evolution then in fact he is a strong proponent of
evolutionary theory.  In short they knowingly put false
words in other people's mouth to support their case.

   Finally creationists frequently speak as if they
understand a piece of science (the 2nd law of
thermodynamics, for instance) when they don't.  Students
should be firmly warned in advance that "creation science"
and "the theory of creation" are a pack of lies put together
in a fraudulent manner by dishonest people who will sink to
any depth to get their point across.

   Creation science, given its past level of honesty and
scientific integrity, deserves no hearing whatsoever by
anyone.  It is pure and unadulterated garbage.  One of the
great sucesses of the creation science movement has been to
make people think that there is still some question in 
scientific circles over the fact that evolution has taken 
place.  There is none.

   I realize these are stong statements.  I make them after 
a decade of hearing creationists, even ones that have been
carefully and politely shown that they are wrong, repeat the
same lies dozens of times.

(I invite any interested party to strike up an e-mail conversation)

Dan
Danwell@IASTATE.EDU
From: Sara.Pressly@p0.f14.n346.z1.fidonet.org (Sara Pressly)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.science
Subject: Endometriosis
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 10:35:47 PDT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:346/14.0 - Room 5, Bonners Ferry ID

For the past two Christmases, Santa has given me a pesky little
female gift, Endometriosis.  I had to spend the past two Christmas
vacation recovering from surgery for endometriosis.  My doctors
could not put in to simple enough terms for my non-medically
oriented brain, what this painful disease is.  It finally came down
to blood clots on the uterine wall.  My doctors and I have tried
everything to prevent the disease from reoccurring, but as
Christmas rolls around once more, I was once again diagnosed with
endometriosis, my special present.  Still know one is able to
explain to me what endometriosis is and why it keeps reoccurring in
me, after all the treatments.  If anyone can explain to me in
normal words what it is and why I keep getting it, that would be a
great help.  Also if anyone has any information on how to prevent
endometriosis, and other remedies beside surgery. Please, do tell. 
 
Thank you.                                                        
 



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From: Laurie.Appleton@p1.f316.n640.z3.fidonet.org (Laurie Appleton)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.science
Subject: Speed of Light
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 92 10:15:00 PDT
Organization: FidoNet node 3:640/316.1 - The Galaxy GateWay , Minden Qld Australia

 JC>     If you could change matter into energy and back to matter again it
 JC> would be possable to travel the speed of light, right?  Now taceons
 JC> ( Sorry if the spelling is wrong ) can travel in excess of the speed of
 JC> light, right?  How do we know that taceons exist, if they have an
 JC> imaginary rest mass?  If an imaginary rest mass really does exist, it
 JC> would then be possable to travel back in time, correct?  Now, if you can
 JC> travel in an excess of the speed of light you could travel in space and
 JC> and travel farther distances without time on earth getting to far ahead
 JC> of you, in fact time will end up behind you.

    All very interesting questions. But then 'science' is
 changing its view so often that we can be sure that they will
 find that what they believe today is wrong tomorrow and
 tomorrow it will be all different!

   I mean the whole of out current thinking is based in the
 concept of the BIG BANG, but in the last few years there have
 been a number of findings and observations that are in conflict
 with it and we have serious scientific books coming out with
 titles like;

   THE BIG BANG NEVER HAPPENED, by Eric J. Lerner, (1992)

   I guess that many of our science teachers present the
 speculations about these things with such confidence that many
 students are beguiled into thinking that they are as good as
 factual, when that is not the case at all.

   Still, so long as it stimulates contining research, then
 sooner or later we  might get it all worked out correctly. The
 greatest problem is that there are so many scientists who
 become so attached to their ideas that progress is impeded and
 some good new ideas are rejected all too quickly because they
 upset these 'pet and cherished' theories.

    A case in point is where evidence was presented to show that
 the speed of light in the past was up to 10^11 faster than it
 is today.  This, if true, would dramatically conflict with all
 our current dating systems which give us about 15 billion years
 as the age of the universe.

   Now such ages are almost 'sacred' to many scientists and so
 the matter is dismissed out of hand in SPITE of the
 experimental evidence that supports it!!

   I suspect that that book I mentioned, The Big Bang Never
 Happened, might get a better hearing because it proposes a
 Universe of no beginning and no end and so there is all the
 time in the world to play with and allow an even greater range
 of speculations!!

   I am sure you will see that this at once solved the problem
 of whether the Universe is open or closed.  i.e. whether it
 happened by a ONCE ONLY Big Bang or whether there have been lots
 of Big Bangs followed by Big Crunches!!

   I hope that provides some food for thought and further
 messages!!

 Laurie



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From: Helen.Sternheim@f109.n321.z1.fidonet.org (Helen Sternheim)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.science
Subject: Hyper Thyroid
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 13:42:29 PDT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:321/109 - Pioneer Valley PCUG, Amherst MA

3rd article

--------------------
Copyright (c) 1992 Grolier Electronic Publishing, Inc.

THYROID
A deficiency of the hormones thyroxine and triiodothyronine
 (hypothyroidism) originates either in the thyroid (primary)
 or in the controlling pituitary of hypothalamus
 (secondary). Undersecretion of these hormones in fetal or
 infant life results in cretinism.  Symptoms include dry,
 wrinkled skin, an enlarged tongue, a drooling mouth, and a
 broad face.  Infants are apathetic and have a slow heart
 rate and subnormal temperature.  As children, they are
 small for their age;  as adults, they are dwarfs.  Children
 are minimally to severely mentally retarded.  If the
 condition is recognized and treated early, these growth
 defects can be prevented.
The reaction to the deficiency of thyroid hormone in adults
 is called myxedema.  Characteristics include severe edema
 of the face, extremities, and body cavities, as well as
 gradual personality changes, hoarse speech, yellowish skin,
 mental apathy, and slowed brain waves.  Treatment consists
 of administration of thyroid hormone, usually for the
 lifetime of the patient.  Myxedema can affect other
 endocrine glands, and ACTH and GH may be decreased.  The
 condition interferes with reproduction.
Various conditions can cause GOITER, an enlargement of the
 thyroid gland. Overproduction of hormone in the thyroid
 gland, which may follow emotional or physical stress,
 results in toxic diffuse goiter (Grave's disease) or toxic
 nodular goiter (Plummer's disease), both of which are
 characterized by nervousness, sweating, weight loss, and
 hyperactivity.  If goiter is caused by low dietary intake
 of iodine, it is termed endemic (colloid) goiter.  Endemic
 goiter is treated with iodine.  Drugs such as lithium that
 can block synthesis of thyroid hormone are called
 goitrogens.  The hypothalamus-pituitary responds to
 goitrogens with increased TSH secretion and resulting
 goiter formation, which is most likely to occur at puberty
 and during pregnancy.
 



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Internet: Helen.Sternheim@f109.n321.z1.fidonet.org
From: Laurie.Appleton@p1.f316.n640.z3.fidonet.org (Laurie Appleton)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.science
Subject: Frogs and Frog Watch
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 92 10:55:28 PDT
Organization: FidoNet node 3:640/316.1 - The Galaxy GateWay , Minden Qld Australia

 PM> Frog Watch is a program which is staggering along in Australia,
 PM> involving Australian students in collecting information about where
 PM> frog species live.  There are around 100 species in SE Australia (the
 PM> most populated part, and a couple of hundred more in north Queensland
 PM> (keep in mind that I am not a frog expert).

    Would you comment on a recent report in the Brisbane Sunday
 Mail that said in part;

   "Amateur naturalists have stunned the scientific world with a
 major discovery - Queensland crows have learned to kill
 safely and eat highly toxic cane toads." (6/12/92, p.15)

 Laurie



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From: rowe@pender.ee.upenn.edu (Mickey Rowe)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.science
Subject: Re: human evolution
Date: 14 Dec 92 22:50:02 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <29691.2B2CAEE5@puddle.fidonet.org>
     Laurie.Appleton@p1.f316.n640.z3.fidonet.org (Laurie Appleton) writes:

>    Your message is a little puzzling in some ways.  Have you
> heard (or learned) of the famous Prof. Stephen Jay Gould?  In
> any case he said the following;
>
>      "The extreme rarity of transitional forms in the
>fossil record persist as the trade secret of paleontology.
...

Anyone who thinks that Laurie is making a good case for her view of
life should find the article from which she (or more likely someone
else) has extracted Gould's quotes.  While reading the article, ask
yourself if Gould would agree with Laurie's position.  The part where
he worries that creationists will use his sentences to try to bolster
their view is particularly telling.  Please do not use Gould's words
to make it seem like he would support a position he is vehemently
against.  He's not particularly fond of that.  Neither is Colin
Patterson, Niles Eldredge or a myriad of other scientists whose quotes
have been abused by unscrupulous creationists.

>(Stephen Jay Gould (Professor of Geology and Paleontology,
>Harvard University), "Evolution's erratic pace".
>Natural History, vol.LXXXVI(5), May 1977, p.14.)

Are you sure about the year?  That doesn't sound right to me.

>Internet: Laurie.Appleton@p1.f316.n640.z3.fidonet.org

Mickey Rowe     (rowe@pender.ee.upenn.edu)

P.S. In attempting to do my part in not allowing this group to become
bogged down in the battle over creationism, this is likely to be my
only response to Laurie.  I hope that anyone reading this will take my
message to heart:  Never trust a creationist quoting somebody else.
If you find a quote, make sure that you go back to the source and
verify that the person in question was actually making the point for which
the creationist is using the quote.  In my experience that's a rare
event (except when creationists quote each other).
From: Laurie.Appleton@p1.f316.n640.z3.fidonet.org (Laurie Appleton)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.science
Subject: human evolution
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 92 10:06:42 PDT
Organization: FidoNet node 3:640/316.1 - The Galaxy GateWay , Minden Qld Australia

 AC> I know over the years, Paleoanthropologists, scientist who study
 AC> human evolution, have found many skeletal fossils. They have
 AC> classified seven hominid species. They are: A. afarensis,
 AC> A. africanus, A. robustus, A. boisei, A. habilis, H.
 AC> erectus, and H. sapiens.

    Your message is a little puzzling in some ways.  Have you
 heard (or learned) of the famous Prof. Stephen Jay Gould?  In
 any case he said the following;

      "The extreme rarity of transitional forms in the
fossil record persist as the trade secret of paleontology.
The evolutionary trees that adorn our textbooks have data
only at the tips and nodes of their branches; the rest
is inference, however reasonable, not the evidence of
fossils. Yet Darwin was so wedded to gradualism that he
wagered his entire theory on a denial of this literal
record:"

    "The geological record is extremely imperfect and this
    fact will to a large extent explain why we do not find
    interminable varieties, connecting together all the
    extinct and existing forms of life by the finest
    graduated steps. He who rejects these views on the
    nature of the geological record, will rightly reject my
    whole theory.

  "Darwin's argument still persists as the favored escape of most paleontologists from the embarrassment of a record
that seems to show so little of evolution. In exposing
its cultural and methodological roots, I wish in no way to
impugn the potential validity of gradualism (for all
general views have similar roots). I wish only to point
out that it was never "seen" in the rocks."

"Paleontologists have paid an exorbitant price for Darwin's argument. We fancy ourselves as the only true students of
life's history, yet to preserve our favored account of
evolution by natural selection we view our data as so bad
that we never see the very process we profess to study."

(Stephen Jay Gould (Professor of Geology and Paleontology,
Harvard University), "Evolution's erratic pace".
Natural History, vol.LXXXVI(5), May 1977, p.14.)
'YY[


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Internet: Laurie.Appleton@p1.f316.n640.z3.fidonet.org
From: John.Widmer@p6.f369.n633.z3.fidonet.org (John Widmer)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.science
Subject: Probeware in science classes
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 92 07:03:24 PDT
Organization: FidoNet node 3:633/369.6 - City Limits BBS, Boronia Vic

I only buy from Tain Electronics ..so I do not know the other stuff.  Nice to get Thanks Roland .. I am only sorry that the car did not run across the floor!!
I think a lot of people were disappointed.
We do all our controlling from Qbasic

Cheers


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Newsgroups: k12.ed.science
From: alc@netcom.com (Chris Stassen)
Subject: Re: cryogenics
Organization: The Lion's Den, San Jose
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 16:18:59 GMT

Aaron Brown writes:
AB> An interesting fact to note is that Walt Disney is at
AB> this time cryogenically frozen.

This story has been around for quite some time -- probably since the
late 1960s shortly after Walt's death.  Cecil Adams ([1]) says:

Disney had a preoccupation with death; the funeral was "held in secret"
and the cause of death was never officially announced (it was cancer 
of the left lung).  However, there is a death certificate which states
that Disney was cremated at Forest Lawn 12/17/66 (two days after his
death).  It is signed by enbalmer Dean Fluss, who was an employee of
Forest Lawn at the time.  There is a grave site for Disney at Forest
Lawn in the "Court of Freedom" section.

[1]	Adams, C., 1988.  _More of The Straight Dope_.  New York,
	Ballantine Books.  ISBN 0-345-35145-2.

(By the way, I've seen this book recently in several nationwide chain
 bookstores.  Check it out.  Cecil's style is a little sarcastic, but
 the book is a lot of fun reading for the curious mind.)
-- 
Chris Stassen						stassen@alc.com
DISCLAIMER:  My employer's account, but not their opinions.
From: Jerry.Saville@f70.n147.z1.fidonet.org (Jerry Saville)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.science
Subject: Re: Mind-benders
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 12:18:08 PDT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:147/70 - The Teacher's Pet, Oklahoma City OK

Try this one! It is called the Koch Snowflake
Begin with a triangle with all sides with the length of one inch.
At the middle of each side add another triangle with one-third the dimensions
of the original.  Keep doing this to infinity. The length of the boundary is
3 x 4/3 x 4/3 x 4/3... or an infinitly long line! The area of the object you
have just created remanes less than a circle drawn around the original
triangle. What you have is an infinilely long line that surrounds a finite
area!!!
cool hu?



... My other computer is a VAX.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.11


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From: Chris.Rowan@f83.n3820.z1.fidonet.org (Chris Rowan)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.science
Subject: Int'l Student Space Simulation
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 92 23:06:20 PDT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:3820/83 - Morningside K12 BBS, Brownsville TX

Hi everyone,

Has anyone heard about the International Student Space Simulation project created by Jerry Bernhardt in Conroe, Texas?  We at Morningside Elementary are going to participate in this year's Space Simulation and would like to establish contacts with other I.S.S.S. participants.
        
I'm not certain, but I _think_ we are the only elementary school in our area that is participating.  We will conduct a Saturday Academy that consists of 8 consecutive all-day Saturday sessions.  Initially, the students will be taken on a field trip to Space Center Houston to learn about space flight and the history of NASA.  The following Saturday and each Saturday thereafter, students will be placed in cooperative groups of four to engage in many hands-on, minds-on space-related activities.
        
We will build a Space Simulator Habitat in which four student astronauts will live and conduct experiments.  Communication between the habitat and Mission Control will be accomplished through the use of modem-equipped computers and video cameras.
        
Since this is Morningside's first "launch" of a simulator, we would sincerely appreciate any tips or guidelines you can offer that would contribute to the success of our mission.
        
                                                Best regards,
                                                Chris


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