From: sutin@helios.ucsc.edu (Brian Sutin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bulgaria,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: About the Bulgarian Jews and the Bulgarian people
Date: 29 Jul 92 17:45:51 GMT
Organization: Lick Observatory UCSC
NNTP-Posting-Host: helios.ucsc.edu

In article <1992Jul29.090546.13853@wisipc.weizmann.ac.il> lihouba@iris.weizmann.ac.il (Christo Houbaviy) writes:
#In article <154s7gINNcto@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> sutin@helios.ucsc.edu (Brian Sutin) writes:
#>In article <5492@m1.cs.man.ac.uk> lb@cs.man.ac.uk (Luben Boyanov) writes:
#>>In article <151d2dINN602@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> sutin@helios.ucsc.edu (Brian Sutin) writes:
#>>>In article <5462@m1.cs.man.ac.uk> lb@ra.cs.man.ac.uk (Luben Boyanov) writes:
#>>
#>>> in which Jews and "Bulgarians" (note
#>>>how the word "Bulgarian" often does not include the Jews)
#>>
#>>What do you mean? When talking about ethnic and religious matters, I can't
#>>see how it "includes" it.
#>
#>Oh?  So a Jew cannot be a Bulgarian?  I hope that is not what you are
#>implying.  Can a Bulgarian only be Christian or Moslem?  Is a Jew who
#>speaks Bulgarian (most Jews in Bulgaria do, you know) not a Bulgarian?
#>
#>The first step is to say things like "Jews and Bulgarians"; then when
#>times get bad, the Gentiles can say, "What are these Jews doing here?
#>They aren't Bulgarians!  Let's treat them like the second class citizens
#>they really are!"
#>
#I don't really get the point Brian. Although I haven't read the book I believe
#that the phrase 'Jews and Bulgarians' can be used instead of 'Bulgarian Jews and
#Bulgarians' (or even instead of 'Bulgarian Jews and Non-Jewish Bulgarians)
#without implying any antisemitic mood. It is just the shortest way to
#talk about the two ethnic groups in a book that deals with that matter.
#Secondly Bulgarians really can be only Christian. Non - christian bulgarian
#citizens are not Bulgarians they belong to other ethnic groups. I don't see
#any thing wrong with that and there is no racial discrimination in that
#statement.  Thirdly Bulgarian Jews consider themselves Jewish not Bulgarians
#(as do Jews in other countries). (Though they are sometimes referred to as
#Bulgarians here in Israel - just for shorthand).
#As to what would happen when things go bad - I can only tell you that during
#the anti-Turk campaign performed by the former communist goverment the argument
#was quite the opposite - they claimed that the Turkish popullation was
#Bulgarian and therefore those people should change their names and religon.

I would just like to point out that it you came out saying such things in
the US, you would be immediately labeled as a Nazi or a Klansman.  If you
were a politician, you would be thrown from office.  To call the people
whose ancestors were forced by the Turks to convert to Islam (or
voluntarily converted) to be no longer Bulgarian is to rudely deprive them
of their culture.  You have torn Bulgarian citizenship away from Jews, some
of whose families who have lived in Bulgaria for over 1500 years.

#>Brian Sutin				sutin@helios.ucsc.edu
#
#Christo Houbaviy			lihouba@weizmann

Brian Sutin				sutin@helios.ucsc.edu
Lick Observatory, UCSC			Santa Cruz, CA 95064
    Fred:   "May I rescue you?"
    Ginger: "No, thank you.  I prefer being in distress."