HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: scott@bbx.basis.com (Scott Amspoker)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Private antidiscrimination policies in CO (was Re: Attention...)
Date: 1 Jan 93 00:10:16 GMT
Organization: BASIS International, Ltd., Albuquerque NM USA

In article <C04vHy.55z@hpuerca.atl.hp.com> mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Mike Reaser) writes:
>Oh, the company could claim it was solely based on sexual orientation --
>especially if you had been an employee of Cracker Barrel "Family"
>Restaurants.
>
>Let us not forget the employees in Georgia, Tennessee, Alabama, Kentucky,
>Virginia, North Carolina, and elsewhere fired simply because they were
>Gay or Lesbian.  No work-related issues (performance, attendance, etc.)
>were stated, officially or "off the record", as the reason for their
>firings; the only reason listed for most of them was that their
>homosexuality precluded them from being employed by Cracker Barrel.
>
>Of course, Cracker Barrel never included "sexual orientation" in any
>type of official company policy -- but they _DID_ fire these employees
>explicitly because of their sexual orientation, so we should not see
>claims from any of the ChronicallyClueless (tm) that no one has ever
>been fired for "being gay".

The local gay organization was up in arms recently over a firing of
a gay employee from a "Lot-a-burger" chain restaurant.  It seems
that another employee complained to his mother about having to
work with a homosexual.  The mother made a big stink and Lot-a-burger
fired the gay employee.  The employee's manager was quoted as
admitting that the gay employee was one of their best workers (not
a smart thing to say when you're facing a potential lawsuit).

-- 
Scott Amspoker                       |    
Basis International, Albuquerque, NM |  Too bad ignorance isn't really
                                     |  bliss.  Then it could be outlawed.
scott@bbx.basis.com                  |
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: elle@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Ellen Keyne Seebacher)
Subject: Re: "cures" for homosexuality
Reply-To: elle@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 16:22:18 GMT

In article <72338@cup.portal.com> 
 Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison) writes:
>Ken Dykes writes:
>>[on kidnapping Cliff]
>>get in line buster! :-)
>I have dibs on the space immediately preceeding or following
>Ken.  This way, I could be amused while waiting.  ;-{)##]

I don't think Cliff has enough beard for you, George.

[Not to say that watching you waiting with Ken wouldn't be amusing....]

--                    __
Ellen Keyne Seebacher \/             elle@midway.uchicago.edu
From: Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Changing standards of female beauty (Is: the empowerment of
Date: Sun,  3 Jan 93 18:25:35 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1hlktjINNdfc@mizar.usc.edu> <17742@umd5.umd.edu>
  <1hobqeINNre0@mizar.usc.edu> <1993Jan3.014408.18528@toolz.uucp>

Todd Merriman writes:
>Rember the "bra burning" of the 70's?  Maybe it's time to
>have a "makeup burning" of the 90's.

Nope; it would create far too much toxic air pollution.

Just collect the stuff and take it to a company that deals 
with disposing of toxic waste.  ;-{)##]

 
() You've been watching douche commercials again.
()      -- Lurch
-----
[> George D. Madison | NBCS: B8f+t+w-e+s+k+a!cv | Just say NO to razors! <]
[> It's a BEAR thing -- you wouldn't understand. <|> furr@cup.portal.com <]
From: smithw@col.hp.com (Walter Smith)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: EE statements (was: Re: Attention Skiers Boycotting Colorado)
Date: 30 Dec 1992 22:43:25 GMT
Organization: Colorado Springs IT Center
NNTP-Posting-Host: fajita19.cs.itc.hp.com

mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Mike Reaser) writes:
> >You really think HP would fire you in violation of their own EE statement? 
> 
> It's possible.  In Georgia, I could seek relief in the court system.
> In Colorado I could not.
> 
> Simply have an EE statement does _NOT_ guarantee it will not be violated.

I agree that you should be able to seek relief in the court system.  But 
I find so much of the rest to be hysteria.  How many examples can you 
refer to where companies have violated their own EE policies?  

Walter

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: tcarlin@athena.mit.edu (Thomas B Carlin)
Subject: RE's
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 22:53:56 GMT


I cannot help but notice that:

	(1)	90% of what is on this usegroup is RE:  (which I usually do not read, 
			but when I do....);

	(2)	The RE seldom has anything to do with the topic, or - more common and
			far worse - is tanget laid upon tanget laid upon tanget, to the 
			point where not only do you not have a clue what they are talking
			about, you wonder what all this has to do with the stated 
			subject.

Yes, I'm kvetching.  I'm allowed, and even if I'm not, I will anyhow.  I'm just that way.

While discussion is - I believe - the heart of the purpose of these things, really,
can't there be a bit more original material and a lot less arguing with pinheads who
throw out an anti-homsexual blurb and sit back and wait for all the lovely attention?

Tom

P.S.: I never argue with people who make foolish comments.  I just slap them in the 
	back of the head.  I find this works much better, and relieves the stress caused
	by stupidity.  That is why I (almost) never reply to such fools as the
	"Zeekster" and other homophobes, who are merely looking for attention anyhow,
	since I cannot just smack them and get it over with.  I have, though, thought
	of hunting a few of these dogs down........

	"Violence is the last resort of the incompetent, but the first resort of the
		expedient."
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: s0xjg@exnet.co.uk (Xavier Gallagher)
Subject: Re: Child Sexual Abuse (Re: pounding the "10%" figure into the ground) Nature12/3/92
Organization: ExNet Systems Ltd Public Access News, London, UK
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 13:52:17 GMT

In article <1ha31jINNa99@transfer.stratus.com> lmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com writes:
>Amy Young Leith writes
>>In article <13710@optilink.COM> cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer) writes:
>>>FALSE.  Depending on which study you read, at least 21% of molestation
>>>is by exclusive homosexuals, or about 30% is done by homosexuals or
>>>bisexuals.
>>>If you don't even have the basic facts right, there's no point
>>>in arguing with you.
>>Yes, for this same reason I wonder why people bother responding to
>>you. 
>
>I don't have the "clear and concise professional references"
>in front of me, but Crammer is confusing "homosexual acts" with
>homosexuals.  Most child rape involves a man, often a relative, 
>against a girl.  The second largest group involves a man against
>a boy.  However, in the vast majority of those cases, the older man is
>functioning in the society as a heterosexual. Whether or not the person
>is actually gay isn't the point---most of these men vehemently
>deny being gay.  (And, yes, about twenty
>percent of the cases involve women and children.)
>
>Sure, some gay people engage in sexual abuse against children, but the vast  
>majority of child sexual abusers, even taking into account the fact that 
>about 90% of the population is straight, are self-avowed heterosexuals. 
>



I wish I had said it so clearly.

But I do have a quibble.  The tewnty percent mark is a guess because the
reported cases of women-child abuse have been historically few.  Only
(I think) in 1990 did it start coming to public notice that women
could be involved.  To most authorities the idea was almost impossible
to formulate because of the so-called maternal instinct.  There is also
the strongly held belief that women only abuse when dominated by men,
the moors murderers being typical examples.

So, I would find it nearly impossible to include figures for woman-child
abuse in the figures because they are the great unknown.


If anyone has real figures on the issue (and sources) I would be glad to
hear them.


Xave.
-- 
** Xavier Gallagher                        ***********************************
** Genius, Plumber & Madman                ******* s0xjg@exnet.co.uk ********* 
** Part time Dark OverLord Of The Universe ***********************************
From: lord+@andrew.cmu.edu (Tom Lord)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Dworkin as social-constructionist (was Re: what is a man-hater? (was Dworkin...)
Date: 30 Dec 92 22:23:22 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.0fEeru200WB8I6Ms17
	<1htd0cINNpd1@mizar.usc.edu>
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA


	> One name, commonly applied to a large group of such people, even if
	> for the wrong reasons, is `men'.

	The wrong reasons?!  What, pray tell, does that mean?

	> Interestingly, males who are recognized
	> as not being defenders of the sex are often denied the name `man', 

	Example, please?

Oh sure, that was poorly put.  I meant that some people use the name
`men' without distinguishing between its biological and social
meanings.  And yet, without _meaning_ to speak as constructionists,
some of these same people will, for example, call those males they
would dominate `boy', or will say of males who aren't rude enough or
who don't persue the right kind of women in the right way that they
aren't real men -- so their usage comes closer than you might expect
to agreeing with social-constructionists about who's a man and who
isn't.


	Oh puh-leeze.  
	> If this group, call them `real men',
	Why?  I thought we'd agreed to call them "men".

yawn.


	Well, you know Tom, I don't think the fact that I might enjoy
	watching gay porn is, 1) any of Andrea Dworkin's business, or
	2) *is* violence against women, as Dworkin would have us 
	believe. 

Why don't you meet her arguments, instead of her conclusions?  I don't
find your indignation very persuasive.


	"Terror issues from the male, illuminates his essential
	 nature and his basic purpose."
	        -- Andrea Dworkin, _Pornography_, p. 16

	I don't know.  It strikes me that Dworkin argues from
	an essentialist stance just as much as she does from
	an s-c stance.

Are you trying to project my use of `male' (vs. `man') on dworkin's
writings?  I wouldn't expect that to work but i don't see any other
reason why you would conclude that the quote is necessarily
essentialist.
From: mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: GLAAD: Spike Lee Controversy
Date: 21 Dec 92 18:12:38 GMT
Followup-To: soc.motss
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.

In article <75713@apple.apple.COM>, richard@Apple.COM (a flying squirrel)
wrote:

> It boggles the mind.  His attitudes are as repugnant as racism within
> the queer community, only worse: the little weasel fuck receives praise
> for his "thought-provoking" work.  Evidently, his skin isn't dark enough
> yet to learn from it.

I have just finished with a rather long, tired 'discussion' about
the 'little weasel fuck' over in rec.arts.movies - where, it seems,
Do the Right Thing is actually viewed as a work of some cinematic
quality...

*X*
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: joe@spdcc.com (Joseph Francis)
Subject: Re: Changing standards of female beauty (was Re: Ageism)
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 11:41:21 GMT

In article <mattm-231292173402@mcmelmon.apple.com> mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon) writes:
>In article <1haug6INN9tj@mizar.usc.edu>, adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
>wrote:
>
>[etc, etc]
>
>You see the problem, DLM?  Even when I *say* "half humorous" - it
>is not readily apparent to even the better educated twits that
>what follows is not necessarily to be taken at face value.
>
>I think, however, that a casual jaunt through Vogue, et. al. during
>the period in question would reveal a strong androgynist bent.
>What does an androgynous woman look like?  No chest, little 
>variation from chest to waist to hips.  Short, simple hairstyle.
>And, of course, no body fur.
>
>A 13 year old boy.

I might ad that it does, coincidentally, bear a remarkable resemblance
to a prepubescent woman, also. A classic Nabokovean Lolita
13-year-old-girl. Who says that fashion editors aren't
nymphettophiles? Louis Jourdan said it all, I think.
-- 
US Jojo; damp, slighly soiled, but tasty nonetheless.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: cgraham@convex.com (Chip Graham)
Subject: Re: Austin, TX joins Colo. Boycott
Organization: CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, Tx., USA
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 14:04:27 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

>It's very simple.  Dallas is Dallas, and Austin is not.
>
Actually its not so simple. You have to understand Texas, which none of us ever
will! Dallas is Dallas.  What does that mean?? To me it means Southern 
Baptists and Pentecostals who love to dictate rules for everyone else. Its
conservative, snotty, uppity, and stuck on itself. Dallas has a very
Baptist attitude, in that we are better than anyone else, we dictate to you
what you will and will not do, and we will do as we please.

Austin on the other hand is a very open-minded, tolerant city. It is very
heavily influenced by the university, the hippies, the artists and yes
even the political officials. (They are all trash away from home). It is 
Austin where gays were first recognized as equal citizens, and with no
fanfare, because to Austin it was a necessary action to grant equality
to all people. (did that make sense?).

Then there is Houston, San Antonio, and Fort Worth...each of which have
their own standings on the gay issue.  By the way, Dallas is the only
major city in Texas to actively persecute gays. 


-- 
Chip Graham      cgraham@convex.com         +1 214 497 4642
Convex Computer Corporation 
3000 Waterview Parkway     
Box 833851, Richardson,Tx,75083
From: an104@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ric Helton)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Gay & Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation
Date: 30 Dec 1992 01:23:15 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: an104@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ric Helton)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu



GLAAD/New York Bulletins

You will find posted here several messages from GLAAD/New York, a
chapter of the Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation. They
are a gay media watchdog group that looks for both positive and
negative portrayals of homosexuality in American media, and
recommends letter writing and telephone campaigns for or against
various groups.

PLEASE TAKE A MOMENT TO WRITE A FEW LETTERS!!!!!!!!

You can contact GLAAD/New York for more information:

        GLAAD/NY
        150 W. 26th Street, Suite 503
        New York, NY 10001

        212-807-1700

 __
 \/ Ric
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rhayden@oracle.com (Ronald Hayden)
Subject: Re: Austin, TX joins Colo. Boycott
Organization: Oracle Corporation, Belmont, Ca.
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 19:07:20 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <SCANNON.47.724688375@novell.com> SCANNON@novell.com (Steve Cannon) writes:

   Yesterday the City Council of Austin, TX unanimously approved a boycott of 
   the State of Colorado.  In brief, it stated that no city funds would be used 
   for travel to or in Colorado.

Wow!  Is there something different about Austin from the rest of
Texas?

(Belated warning -- I've never been to Texas and therefore
approximately 95% of my views on the subject are stereotypical!)
--

  - Ronald Hayden

    ----------------------------------------------------------------
   | Documentation Manager, Oracle Toolkit Group                    |
   | Co-chair of Oracle Lambda, Oracle's Gay/Lesbian/Bisexual group |
   | Writer, magician, and various other things                     |
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
From: cjones@physci.ucla.edu (Chad Jones)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: HELP!  PWA is losing his insurance
Date: 23 Dec 92 15:18:21 GMT
Organization: UCLA Physiological Science
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1

Sorry that the previous article didn't wrap.  I was e-mailed this letter
with the request that it be relayed to any interested parties.  The
subject line was entirely "FWD" and "COPY" messages and it looked like it
had gone through at least 6 different mail systems before it got to me. 
I was just posting it as a favor.  So please stop sending me nasty e-mail
about how it didn't wrap!

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chad Jones                 | Do I need someone here to scold me or do I
Network Manager            | need someone who'll grab and pull me out of
UCLA Physiological Science | this four poster dull torpor pulling
cjones@physci.ucla.        | downward?                 -- 10,000 Maniacs
From: dise@decoy.uoregon.edu (David Casti)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Gay Child Molesters (Re: Youth Info Needed)
Date: 28 Dec 92 17:51:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: pith.1hneq4INN52f
Reply-To: dise@decoy.uoregon.edu
Distribution: world
Organization: University of Oregon Network Services
NNTP-Posting-Host: cisco-ts2-line65.uoregon.edu

In article <1h7vruINN810@pith.uoregon.edu> dise@decoy.uoregon.edu (David  
Casti) writes:
> As this heats up, we might all consider moving...

Since this isn't a motss issue, I'm posting my replies to alt.politics.sex.   
Please join me there.

David.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rizzoe@FASECON.ECON.NYU.EDU (Emily Rizzo)
Subject: Re: Liberty (was something relevant about CO-2 long ago...)
Organization: New York University
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 22:17:36 GMT

In article <BzoHqz.D66@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> albrigh@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (thomas g albright) writes:

>In article <18217@autodesk.COM> owen@autodesk.com (D. Owen Rowley) writes:
>...
>>me. I was deeply closeted at the time, having just come from Providence R.I.
>...

>Does coming from Providence RI make one deeply closeted?  I have gay friends
>there who are not closeted.

Read Arthur Fricke's delightful "Confessions of a Rock Lobster" (or maybe 
"Memoirs of..." can't remember which) for a good flavor of growing up gay in 
Rhode Island in the 70's.  Fricke made headlines when he sued his high 
school (and won) for the right to bring a male date to his senior prom.


Emily
From: dise@decoy.uoregon.edu (David Casti)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Gay Sailor Murdered ?
Date: 23 Dec 1992 15:54:55 GMT
Organization: University of Oregon Network Services
Distribution: world
Reply-To: dise@oregon.uoregon.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: cisco-ts2-line63.uoregon.edu

Hi folks,

I've heard various rumblings about a gay sailor being murdered in Japan, but  
the media has been unexpectedly silent on the issue.  I found the following AP  
article, and am wondering if anyone else has heard about this.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(c) December 12, 1992, Associated Press

TOKYO (AP) -- The U.S. Navy is investigating whether a sailor based in  
southern Japan was murdered six weeks ago because he was a homosexual, the  
Pacific Stars and Stripes newspaper reported Sunday.

The newspaper quoted an anonymous Navy spokesman as saying the "homosexuality  
issue is certainly a motive being investigated" in the death of 22-year-old  
Seaman Allen Richard Schindler.

The report said Schindler was beaten to death at midnight on October 27 in a  
public restroom in a park near Sasebo Naval Base, a major U.S. military  
installation 615 miles southwest of Tokyo.

It said two of Schindler's shipmates on the amphibious assault ship Belleau  
Wood -- Navy Airman Charles E. Vins and Airman Apprentice Terry M. Helvey --  
were taken into custody in the death and that Vins had been punished and  
discharged.  Helvey is awaiting trial, it said.

Military spokesmen were not immediately available for comment on the report.   
The soldiers' hometowns have not been released.

The Pacific Stars and Stripes is an authorized but unofficial publication of  
the U.S. military.

The newspaper said Schindler, who had been in the Navy about four years, had  
informed his superiors he was a homosexual, and at the time of his death the  
Navy was preparing to discharge him.

It quoted friends and relatives as saying Schindler and at least one other  
homosexual sailor on the Belleau Wood had been harassed by shipmates.  But the  
report said officials claimed they were unaware of any threats to Schindler  
before his death.
Xref: sparky soc.motss:53745 alt.politics.homosexuality:8434
From: teddybur@netcom.com (John Sanger)
Subject: Re: Private antidiscrimination policies in CO (was Re:
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 13:11:56 GMT

In article <1i09acINNiai@hp-col.col.hp.com> smithw@col.hp.com (Walter Smith) writes:
>anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>> Now what reaction do you expect to get from us, Walter, to
>> what amounts to massive rudeness on your part?
>
>Like I said, there is a *large* gap...and obviously I have 
>no clue on how to try and cross it. 
>
>Count one vote (from me) for "get out".  I've had enough of 
>listening to people whine for support and tolerance/acceptance, 
>and then turn around and have no tolerance for others, and 
>threaten, curse, etc them.  The whole thing is really pitiful. 
>
> 
It is very obvious to those of us who have been following this thread that
Walter has and is leading a very sheltered life in Colorado.  He seems not
to have been reading the daily newspapers or the weekly news magazines or
listening to the news and discussion programs on the radio or watching any
of the information shows on the tele.  
I grew up in Colorado and have known discrimination against the homosexual
from a very early time in my life. So where in Colorado Walter has found
this rock to hide under I do not know.  I always found wearing rose colored
glasses to be anoying.

Also I read this thread and did not see any cursing, or threats nor any
foul language except for what Walter himself has been spitting out in this
last post.

 

Ciao!
	John S. :^)
	teddybur@netcom.com
__
From: mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: The Melmon Method (was Dworkin)
Date: 23 Dec 92 20:04:29 GMT
Followup-To: soc.motss
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.

In article <1haaafINNml2@fido.asd.sgi.com>, pauli@sgi.com (Paul Isaacs)
wrote:

> P.P.S. Are you going to call me names now? 

Snarl, hiss, growl...  You, you feminist sympathizer, you..

*X*
(the Squirrel is to blame for all this - he's late changing my
kitty box again.  I believe "A woman needs a man like a fish needs
a bicycle" is from the feminista Gloria Steinsomething, though
my Steinsomethings, Estrichsomethings, and Dworkins are a rather
confused bunch - their clever phrases being the only things that
stick in my muddle mind.  U2 did, however, do the world a service
by putting their howlings to artistic use...)
From: Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Changing standards of female beauty (was Re: Ageism)
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 92 20:19:49 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <mattm-231292173402@mcmelmon.apple.com>
  <mattm-271292142120@mcmelmon.apple.com> <1hlktjINNdfc@mizar.usc.edu>

Adolphson whines:
>> It seems
>> I can provoke you even easier than hairless twinks can provoke that
>> GDM fellow. 
>
>Yeah, well, I take this stuff as seriously as that humorless 
>fellow from Glendale takes hair and cigars.

Hm.  I'm "humorless" for responding to what I find important,
but *you* are just being a good net.citizen for Pointing Out
The Truth when it's something *you* find important.

Quelle Self-Centered Shithead.

But we knew that already, of course.

 
() We believe that to err is human. To blame it on someone
() else is politics.
()      -- Hubert H. Humphrey
-----
[> George D. Madison | NBCS: B8f+t+w-e+s+k+a!cv | Just say NO to razors! <]
[> It's a BEAR thing -- you wouldn't understand. <|> furr@cup.portal.com <]