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Date:         Thu, 21 Jan 1993 15:26:00 PST
From:         Jim McIntosh <Jim@AMERICAN.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Homosexual acts

On Thu, 21 Jan 1993 04:35:16 GMT Thomas E Zerucha said:
>If someone loves you, and you repay that love with arrogance, it hurts.
>Of course God cannot hurt physically (But then what about the human Body
>of Jesus?), but are you saying that he cannot also get offended or angry?

I think it is dangerous to anthropomophize God. While we may not have the
strength to continue loving someone to strikes us, or the ability to love
our enemies , bless those who curse us or do good to those who hate us, that
does not mean that God does not have this ability.

>If sin is a moral matter, then it is only applicable to individuals.
>How can we collectively sin?  If I steal, murder, and rape, can you bear
>my guilt, or get absolution for me?  And you also say "feel".  Do you have
>a reason, or might it have been a passing fancy?  I am not engaging in
>ridicule - you say you are not free to judge except collectively, and even
>then have no rational basis for those judgements.  How do you decide what
>is right and wrong, even collectively?

I concede the point. I can judge certain acts to be wrong, even though I can
make no judgement about the moral guilt of a person commiting any act.

As to collective guilt, each member of a group is guilty when the group does
things together which are wrong. Those of us in the US are part of a
democracy. When the country acts, it acts in our names. It acts with our
consent. Unless we have opted to leave the country, or stop paying our taxes,
we must all bear the responsibility for nuclear weapons, the death penalty
and publically funded abortions (among other sins).

>I think I understand your dichotomy, but do not have any idea why you hold
>that opinion.  Is your only guilt failure to pass laws?  Or do you commit
>individual sins?  How did you come to formulate this system.

I comit sins when I chose to act contrary to God's will for me. As a
participating member of this society I also sin when the society acts
contrary to God's will.

>If you hold that something is OBJECTIVELY wrong, and it is wrong for people
>to commit the act collectively, and you or I do that same act, under what
>circumstance (if any) can that same act be OBJECTIVELY right?  You must
>make decisions each day as to what is right and wrong - how do you do this?

I am conceding that point. Acts can be objectively wrong. Someone said the
Church teaches that the taking of any innocent life is wrong, regardless of
the circumstances. If that is the case, then I am guilty because my tax
dollars paid for the cruise missle that hit the hotel in Bagdad even those
the firing was ordered by George Bush because he knew that some percentage of
the missles would miss their target and strike civilan targets. I am guilty
because a portion of my taxes paid for those missles. I paid my taxes knowing
that missles would be built, and that someone might use them.

Jim McIntosh (jim@american.edu)
The American University
Washington, DC USA 20016-8019
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic