HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kherron@ms.uky.edu (Kenneth Herron)
Newsgroups: alt.dreams,alt.config
Subject: Re: OOBE discussion group name
Date: 22 Jul 92 19:27:12 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences

gst@gnosys.svle.ma.us (Gary S. Trujillo) writes:

>I got a call this morning from someone who ... said he feels that a name of
>alt.dreams.<anything> would not be good, since it would characterize the
>experience as being somehow related to dreaming.  I agree, for reasons
>related to what we discussed before about not using the "astral-projection"
>name, which would characterize the experience.

>For me, then, the choice is among alt.oobe, alt.obe, and alt.out-of-body.
>As stated before, I prefer alt.oobe over alt.obe since the first term, used
>by some authors on the subject (such as University of California professor
>Charles T. Tart, who wrote the foreword to Robert Monroe's _Journeys_Out_of_
>_the_Body_) can be pronounced ("oobey").  

>What do others feel?  I hope we can get this matter settled quickly.  Sorry
>for having "jumped the gun," folks.

Generally it's a bad idea to use obscure abbreviations in newsgroup
names.  This applies particularly to alt groups, since so many of them 
are created as jokes.  I was able to free-associate it with "out of the 
body" pretty quickly but I wouldn't trust the average person to.  I'd
recommend going with "out-of-body".  [If you put it under alt.dreams,
"oobe" would be more reasonable.]

Beyond that, we already have 204 categories directly under alt (and
I'm pretty conservative about creating alt groups; most sites probably
have more).  We don't need another one that doesn't serve as the head 
of a hierarchy.  Maybe you feel "alt.dreams.out-of-the-body" is imprecise, 
but the group's name doesn't have to be a precise definition of the topics 
covered.  Alt.dreams is the best existing hierarchy for the topic.

This site won't carry the group unless you come up with a reasonable
name.
-- 
Kenneth Herron                                           kherron@ms.uky.edu
University of Kentucky                                      +1 606 257 2975
Department of Mathematics           "Thanks to the magic of the slow-motion 
camera, we can now show you how ugly the inside of someone's mouth can be."
Newsgroups: alt.dreams,alt.oobe,alt.config
From: gst@spdcc.com (Gary S. Trujillo)
Subject: Re: OOBE discussion group name
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 06:42:09 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.224716.1@eagle.wesleyan.edu> jtulli@eagle
	wesleyan.edu writes:

> everybody has dreams, so everybody agrees that they are a real phenomenon.
> everybody who has had an obe agrees that it is a real phenomenon.  it's just
> the rest of the world that's skeptical. i don't see why the group shouldn't be
> top-level.  my conception of the group was principally to discuss experiences,
> not to debate their "objectivity".  that can be done in alt.paranormal or
> alt.magic.
> 
> Jude

I agree.  If anyone reading this article in alt.config disagrees, and has
any qualms about letting something like "alt.out-of-body" be created at his/
her site, please let us know that fact, and what your feelings are based on.

Thanks.

Gary
-- 
    Gary S. Trujillo                             gst@gnosys.svle.ma.us
Somerville, Massachusetts               {wjh12,bu.edu,spdcc,ima,cdp}!gnosys!gst
Newsgroups: alt.dreams,alt.oobe,alt.config
From: barr@darwin.psu.edu (David Barr)
Subject: Re: OOBE discussion group name
Organization: Population Research Institute
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 20:04:26 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.165415.4302@gnosys.svle.ma.us> gst@gnosys.svle.ma.us (Gary S. Trujillo) writes:
>However, I wonder just *how much* more descriptive "alt.out-of-body" is than
>"alt.oobe."  

It is MUCH more descriptive.  If I saw the two names, I'd have absolutely
no clue what "alt.oobe" was for, but would at least know what general
genre of "alt.out-of-body" was.  (That is, it's not a technical or
computer group)

>There may be people who have heard the term "out of body exper-
>ience" who have not come across the acronym "OOBE," but I suspect they are
>fewer in number than those who have heard of neither one.  

Well, in my little poll around the office, NOBODY heard of the acronym
"OBE" or "OOBE", even those who have heard of the phenomenon of out of
body experiences.

>Yes, perhaps the
>term "out-of-body" is more intriguing than "oobe" to someone who knows of
>neither.

Intrigue is not the issue.  Even well-known acronyms are poor choices for 
names of groups.  One acronym is not unique.  Even unique acronyms don't
stay unique.  Borland may introduce a product tomorrow called "Object
Oriented Basic Environment", and the newgroup will be flooded.
Nevertheless, I would not classify "OOBE" as a well known acronym.  

--Dave
-- 
System Administrator, Population Research Institute    barr@darwin.psu.edu
Emacs is a fine operating system, but I still prefer UNIX. - Tom Christiansen
Newsgroups: alt.dreams,alt.oobe,alt.config,alt.paranormal
From: zlsiida@fs1.mcc.ac.uk (dave budd)
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
Subject: Re: addictions...
Date: 28 Jul 92 15:12:24 GMT
Organization: Manchester Computing Centre
Originator: netnews@uts.mcc.ac.uk

In article <24939@dog.ee.lbl.gov> monnier@csa3.lbl.gov (JOHN MONNIER) writes:


>I smoke (but I'm quitting next week....)
>but I notice that I have NEVER had a dream (that I remember)
>where I smoke, or even want to smoke..

>?

>is this true with other addictions?

>A friend of mine said that he as taken lsd in a dream, but
>lsd isn't physcially addictive?

>thanks...
>john monnier

I'd have said LSD was anti-addictive; it gets a strain after a few years of 
regular use, nothing much new happens when you're up and the recovery after 
you get down starts interfering with your life, so you just stop.

+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
|  I don't take part in any sport that requires me to change clothes  |
|  Dave Budd, MCC, Oxford Rd, Manchester, England   (44)061-275-6033  |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
From: gen5006@husky1.stmarys.ca
Subject: Reading in Dreams
Organization: St. Mary's University, Halifax, N.S., Canada
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 03:39:28 GMT

	I found it's possible to read in dreams.  I had on last night.
I was swimming along in the middle of a cove and this bookcase floated
by me. (Yeah i know.... Wierd!!)  Anywaz i could read all the titles, i 
don't member em now except (and get this) they were all about dreaming.
Go figure.

(oh btw...  who really *cares* what the out of body newsgroup is called?????)

Bill.
From: vmf@acpub.duke.edu (Virginia Fleming)
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
Subject: Re: dreaming about certain rooms
Date: 25 Jul 92 19:21:45 GMT
Organization: Duke University; Durham, N.C.

In article <1992Jul24.110324.25115@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au> rishb@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au (H. Beiers) writes:
> Bathrooms is a bit more of a problem.  We ion Australia tend to laugh
> a bit at you Americans when you call the toilet a bothroom.  Do you
> mean the room with the bath in it, or the room with the toilet bowl
> in it?  But the same way of thinking about it will still work.

This may seem strange to you, but here it is almost universal that a
room with a bath will also have a toilet in it.  I think the use of
this euphemism is pretty strange because in common use it means a
toilet, even when there is no bath in the room.  It has something
to do with that somehow admitting that one had to use
a toilet is shameful.  If an American asks for a bathroom, they
almost always mean that they want to use the toilet.  Usually
we would mention taking a bath or a shower if that is what we
really want.

This is actually relevant to dream content, since if one were
to be from a culture where bath and toilet were separate, it
would matter which one were looking into (toilet more a control
issue, bath more a cleansing one).  And what one notices about
the bathroom in the dream is important too.
>
> Henric Beiers
> henricb@rmit.edu.au

Virginia
vmf@acpub.duke.edU
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
From: philip@labtam.labtam.oz.au (Philip Stephens)
Subject: Re: early morn nightmares
Organization: Labtam Australia Pty. Ltd., Melbourne, Australia
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 00:29:56 GMT

pally@mikejag.wimsey.bc.ca (Pally Hoffstein) writes:

>I'm currently experiencing a nightmare problem and I'm hoping some of you out
>there might be able to help.

  [details of violent nightmares deleted]

>I'm not a person prone to violence; I don't even like violence in films. Or
>maybe there is a violent part of me trying to get out? I don't know. 

  No, I would not say that there is a violent part of you trying to express
itself in these nightmares.  But I would say that something in your life at the
moment is causing you concern, but because you are not facing it or dealing
with it the nightmares result.
  Obviously I can't tell you what that something is.  All I can suggest is that
you examine what's going on in your life at the moment and see whether you can
uncover anything that is bothering you.  It may not be obvious, so look at
EVERYTHING.  Somewhere there ought to be a correlation between your nightmares
and your real life.
  Also keep in mind that your nightmares are _symbolic_ of some problem that
has yet to be solved.  If you take the nightmares literally you'll most likely
miss the point of what they are trying to tell you.

  I hope that helps,
  
  Philip Stephens
  Labtam Australia Pty Ltd
  philip@labtam.labtam.oz.au
From: hogarth@saviour.UUCP (hogarth)
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
Subject: Re: Jewelry Dream
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 13:56:51 EDT
Organization: Genius Systems, Poughkeepsie NY

zlsiida@fs1.mcc.ac.uk (dave budd) writes:

> >In article <105856.8275@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> Kevin Eckhert writes...
> 
> >>earring is ripped off right through the lobe (I'm positive that I saw this
> >>happen to someone in a movie, can anyone help?).  So now I'm walking down
> 
> Yes I saw this.  Can't recall which movie though.
> 
It happened in a Music Video.
Slaughter's The Wild Life
Hope that helps.

=============================The Saviour System ==============================
==================1 (914) 452 5538 ------ Open 24 hours a day ================
                         hogarth@saviour.UUCP (hogarth)
Xref: sparky alt.dreams:2728 alt.config:4913
From: kherron@ms.uky.edu (Kenneth Herron)
Newsgroups: alt.dreams,alt.config
Subject: Re: OOBE discussion group name
Date: 28 Jul 92 14:17:07 GMT
    <zlsiida.1027@fs1.mcc.ac.uk> <1992Jul24.224716.1@eagle.wesleyan.edu> 
    <1992Jul28.064209.9755@spdcc.com>
Distribution: na
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences

gst@spdcc.com (Gary S. Trujillo) writes:

>I agree.  If anyone reading this article in alt.config disagrees, and has
>any qualms about letting something like "alt.out-of-body" be created at his/
>her site, please let us know that fact, and what your feelings are based on.

A number of people have already done this.  To start with, alt already
has over 200 subcategories; this group is not worth creating another when 
there are a couple of existing categories it could go under.  

Saying "we don't know exactly how it works so we don't want to categorize
it" only shows that you don't understand the purpose of a hierarchical
newsgroup organization.  Newsgroup topics tend to be self-defining; putting 
it under alt.dreams or alt.paranormal isn't going to affect the discussion 
or suppress any viewpoints.  Wherever you put the group, it will be
defined as "the place to discuss out-of-the-body experiences"; it will,
however, be a lot easier for people to *find* if it's connected with
one of these other two groups.
-- 
Kenneth Herron                                           kherron@ms.uky.edu
University of Kentucky                                      +1 606 257 2975
Department of Mathematics           "Thanks to the magic of the slow-motion 
camera, we can now show you how ugly the inside of someone's mouth can be."
Newsgroups: alt.dreams,sci.skeptic
From: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick)
Subject: Re: Dream/Reality
Reply-To: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 18:53:00 GMT

In article <!=mm8aq.payner@netcom.com>, payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) writes:
>In article <philip.712283925@labtam> philip@labtam.labtam.oz.au (Philip Stephens) writes:
>>Alan Smith writes:
>>  If it were easy to tell dream from reality, then we would all be having lucid
>>dreams every night of the week.  
>
>I'm afraid that I do not see how the conclusion follows from the proposition.

A lucid dream is one in which you're dreaming and you know you're dreaming. 
Given that you have several dreams every night, if you could easily distinguish
between dream and reality, these dreams would, by definition, be lucid dreams.

However, I think that the problem here is that Rich and Alan are talking about
two different things:  Alan's talking about distinguishing between dreams and
reality in real time;  Rich, I think, is talking about distinguishing memories
of dreams from memories of reality.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL

Disclaimer:  Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS.  That's what I get paid for.  My
understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below).  So
unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my
organization responsible for it.  If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to
hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it.
From: b-herman@uchicago.edu
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
Subject: Re: Jewelry Dream
Date: 29 Jul 92 21:39:11 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Chicago


 >In article <105856.8275@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> Kevin Eckhert writes...
 
>>earring is ripped off right through the lobe (I'm positive that I saw this
>>happen to someone in a movie, can anyone help?).  So now I'm walking down
 
> Yes I saw this.  Can't recall which movie though.

This actually happens in a lot of places (and is related to the fear of
actually having this happen).  The movie that comes to my mind is a Clint
Eastwood flick made about the war in Granada called "Heartbreak Ridge".

Just my $.02

Ben
Xref: sparky alt.dreams:2727 alt.config:4911 alt.oobe:29
From: sloane@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (Bob Sloane)
Newsgroups: alt.dreams,alt.config,alt.oobe
Subject: Re: OOBE discussion group name
Date: 28 Jul 92 08:57:31 CDT
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

In <1992Jul28.064209.9755@spdcc.com>, gst@spdcc.com (Gary S. Trujillo) writes:
> I agree.  If anyone reading this article in alt.config disagrees, and has
> any qualms about letting something like "alt.out-of-body" be created at his/
> her site, please let us know that fact, and what your feelings are based on.

I disagree.  The existing alt.paranormal is quite adequate for this
topic. If you MUST create a new group, call it alt.paranormal.out-of-body.
-- 
USmail: Bob Sloane, University of Kansas Computer Center, Lawrence, KS, 66045
E-mail: sloane@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu, sloane@ukanvax.bitnet, AT&T: (913)864-0444
From: echyatt@eos.ncsu.edu (EDWARD CRAIG HYATT)
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
Subject: Re: Rather Emotional Dream
Date: 21 Jul 92 12:57:22 GMT
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos

In article <1992Jul21.182637.51584@qut.edu.au> heard@qut.edu.au writes:
>In article <1992Jul17.135933.20518@ms.uky.edu>, wills@ms.uky.edu 
>(Will Young) writes:
>> Hello,
>> 	Here is a dream that I had one afternoon that I wouldn't mind having
>> an interpertation on.  Its just something that was different about the idea
> (edited)
>The word "Kaloka" has a number of possibilities. To me 
>it has echos of 
>
>-- Kayak (as in your sig file)
>-- Kentucky (your university, Home too?)
> (edited)
>-- Possible others: use your imagination.
>

My first impression on reading Kaloka was
to think of "mazurka".

>
>Take care
>Ronno
>--------------------------------------------------------------
>For dreams and reason, against authority and untested beliefs.


-- 
--------------------
Craig Hyatt
NCSU@Raleigh, NC USA
echyatt@eos.ncsu.edu
--------------------
From: Andrew Siegel <asiegel@igc.org>
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
Date: 19 Jul 92 21:16 PDT
Subject: Dreaming Again & Weird Thing Happn
Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1301200001:000:1917
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!asiegel    Jul 19 21:16:00 1992


This is my first posting in this newsgroup.  But I feel compelled to 
do so by what is to me a strange dream experience.

Until recently, I had not been able to recall any of my dreams for 
about two years.  Occasionally, I would remember just pieces of 
a dream but nothing more.  I got engaged about two months ago.  
Suddenly, I have been able to recall more and more about what I dream.  

Yesterday, my fiancee and I travelled to the Shenandoah Valley
of Virginia.  We did some sight seeing and stayed at a bed and 
breakfast.  I slept well last night and had a very lucid dream.  
I was of wandering through the empty shell of what had been 
Gimble's department store on 86th Street in  New York's Upper 
East Side -- the neighborhood in which I lived 
for three years nearly seven years ago.  I could not remember 
much else of the dream -- except for that fact that I was making 
dinner for a lot of people and that I was trying to help a friend 
get a job.  But the real weird part of the dream to me was 
this image of me wandering through this empty department store -- 
going up and down the escalators, etc.  

I told my fiancee about this and she thought it was weird and 
was surprised that I would even tell her about a dream -- 
because usually it is she who shares her dreams with 
me.

When we got back to Washington, D.C. this evening, we went to 
dinner at a friend of my father's.  At dinner, was his daughter who
is my age and a couple of her friends from graduate school.  One 
lived in New York City.  I told him where I was from.  He said, "Do
you remember the old Gimble's?  You would not believe what they are
doing at that site."  My mouth dropped open and I looked at my fiancee
who was also looking at me.

Now, this has gotten me thinking, "What have I been missing these
years by not remembering my dreams -- when this happens after I 
recall my first lucid one in a while?"

--Andy


Xref: sparky alt.dreams:2696 alt.oobe:21 alt.config:4889
Newsgroups: alt.dreams,alt.oobe,alt.config
Subject: Re: OOBE discussion group name
From: jtulli@eagle.wesleyan.edu
Date: 24 Jul 92 22:47:16 EDT
Organization: Wesleyan University

In article <zlsiida.1027@fs1.mcc.ac.uk>, zlsiida@fs1.mcc.ac.uk (dave budd) writes:
> out-of-body    yes
> if not wanted at top level, i'm afraid i'd prefer
> alt.paranormal.out-of-body
> everybody agrees dreams are a real phenomenon
> not everybody agrees that obes are a real phenomenon
> 
> +--Great Quotes of our Time-------------------------------------------+
> |        You should never have a hobby that eats                      |
> +--------------------------------------Amarillo Slim Preston----------+          
> |  Dave Budd, MCC, Oxford Rd, Manchester, England  (44)061-275-6033   |
> +---------------------------------------------------------------------+

everybody has dreams, so everybody agrees that they are a real phenomenon.
everybody who has had an obe agrees that it is a real phenomenon.  it's just
the rest of the world that's skeptical.  i don't see why the group shouldn't be
top-level.  my conception of the group was principally to discuss experiences,
not to debate their "objectivity".  that can be done in alt.paranormal or
alt.magic.

Jude
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
Subject: Re: OOBE
From: jtulli@eagle.wesleyan.edu
Date: 30 Jul 92 23:36:18 EDT
Organization: Wesleyan University

In article <1992Jul30.085957.22153@hplb.hpl.hp.com>, rik@hplb.hpl.hp.com 
(Richard Beckett) writes:
> 
> 
> Hi Folks,
> 
>      	I'm rather new to all this, so please excuse my niavety (is that how
> 	you spell it ? ). I find the whole idea of OOBEs fascinating.
> 
> 	Please hurry up and find a name for the group so that we can get on
> 	with discussing more interesting things like:

> 	How do I have an OOBE ?

there are many different methods suggested.  you'll probably have to experiment
to see which works best for you.  (see previous messages on methods to induce
obes if they haven't been wiped out).

> 	Are they dangerous ?

i don't think so, though some say it is.

> 	Can you fly whilst doing it ?

yes.

> and	Is it cheaper than Gliding ??

of course!  it's free.
 
> 	CHEERS ! 
> 		RIK 
> PS    I'm a totally new user, and I found the group. It's proberbly best
> 	left under dreams because people who find dreams interesting will
> 	proberbly also be interested in OOBEs.
     	
i disagree; not everyone interested in obes is interested in dreams.  they'll
be more sure to find such a discussion in a group called alt.out-of-bod(y)

Jude
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
From: preiser@cancer.unm.edu (Doug Preiser)
Subject: Re: Dream of mountain and jungle
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 17:55:12 GMT
Organization: UNM Cancer Center
Reply-To: preiser@cancer.unm.edu

In article <1992Jul23.022720.22955@iat.holonet.net>, jalea@iat.holonet.net (Jackie McClure) writes:
>I've been having this reoccurring dream of mountains and jungle for
>about the past year. I'm hiking across a flimsy rope bridge that's
>suspended about 5 centimeters above a broad lake. The air is hot and
>very humid. Dense green jungle surrounds the lake, thick with creepers
>and the calls of birds. The lake is black, almost opaque. I stop a
>moment to adjust my pack and admire the snow capped mountains that 
>loom up beyond the jungle. The thought of all that snow makes me so
>thirsty. I know it's a bad idea but I bend down to scoop up a handful
>of brackish water to drink. There, in the water I see a severed arm
>floating like a pale fish beneath the bridge. A voice says "We killed
>him. We punished him for breaking his covenant with the lake." I turn
>and there's a young boy next to me. He's about 6 years old and is 
>dressed in ragged cutoff jeans and a tattered red tshirt. He sort of
>looks like me ( I guess how my son would look if I had one). He stretchs
>out his hand and says "Come on, I'll take you to my mother." And the 
>dream ends. What the heck does this mean ? Why do I keep having it ?
>I'm open to any ideas.

Just thought I'd mention the boy might be yourself.

Good dreams,
Doug.
   Internet: preiser@cancer.unm.edu          So, who's dream is this, anyway?
   Bitnet:   preiser@unmb
Newsgroups: alt.dreams,alt.config,alt.oobe
From: mtakacs@milton.u.washington.edu (Tak)
Subject: Re: OOBE discussion group name
Summary: just say "no" to alt.paranormal.out-of-body
Organization: HITLabs: Human Interface Technology Lab
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 18:50:05 GMT

In article sloane@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (Bob Sloane) writes:

>traffic right now.  If the discussion on alt.paranormal is mostly
>skeptical, it is because that is what people want to say about the
>topic, and creating a new group won't change their minds.

	But "paranormal" subclass just screams out to be debated and flamed at by
skeptics. (IMHO)  The feeling at alt.dreams (where I first picked up this whole OBE
thread) seems to be one of support and genuine interest.  I have been reading
alt.paranormal since I noticed some cross-posts to there in the stuff I was reading
in alt.dreams and it just didn't feel the same. Much less friendly.  
	I tend to think that putting the "out-of-body" newsgroup under paranormal
would devalue the discussion.  Maybe not, as the apparent counter example of
alt.astrology points out, but I'd like to think that alt.out-of-body would be a place
to post ideas, theories, relate experiences, post a "faq", and serve as a resource
guide for books and "on-line" help.  My gut feeling is that this wouldn't happen
under an alt.paranormal grouping. I would feel much more defensive if I were to post
to a paranormal group.

	My Two Cents,
		Tak

-----------------------------------------
Mark Takacs
mtakacs@u.washington.edu
HITLab - Seattle WA
"What?"
-----------------------------------------

Xref: sparky alt.dreams:2773 alt.config:4952 alt.oobe:42