From: tom@portland.mdc.unisys.com (Tom Albrecht)
Newsgroups: alt.messianic
Subject: Re: Clean And Unclean Under The New Cove
Date: 28 Jul 92 15:47:13 GMT
Organization: Unisys - Applied Technology

Bill Carlson writes:
>
> >BH> which include it are the Amplified, the New American Standard...
> > 
> >You'll also note that it is given in []'s.  The reason for this; is
> >the entire 1st half of the statement isn't even in the Greek.  ...
> TA> 
> TA> Not in the NASB.  There are no brackets, no marginal comments
>      Yes, in the NAS Bible.  I have a copy here at work; and it says:
>      (Thus He <-{these two words are in italics} declared all foods
>      clean)  The entire phrase is in ()'s in my NAS, and if you'll
>      note, the word "declared" is also not in the Greek anywhere.

No, there are no brackets in the NASB, just parenthesis.  If you take the
time to find out by reading the introduction to the NASB, you'll discover
that brackets [] denote something that is questionable and usually has a
marginal note, while the parenthesis denote a statement that is in the
text, but is parenthetical in nature.  For example, verse 16 is in
brackets, indicating that it is not found in many manuscripts.  There are
no brackets in Mark 7:19, just parenthesis.  In this case Mark, the writer
and co-worker of Peter, is parenthetically explaining to his Gentile
readers what Jesus was saying/doing, i.e., declaring all foods clean.  Mark
uses the same form of commentary in verse 11 when he explain "korban" to
the Gentiles.  (If you have a "red letter" edition of the NASB, you'll
notice that both sets of parenthetical statements are not in red.)

> TA> happened to be in a Christian bookstore and consulted a number of
> TA> commentaries on Mark.  None of them hinted at questionable text
>      Not surprising; most commentaries today have little value anyway.

Perhaps you can suggest a more substantive commentary that agree with your
theory regarding Mark 7:19.

> TA> Objectively speaking, is it sin today for a Jewish believer in Messiah
> TA> Jesus to fail to circumcise his male child on the 8th day?
>      I would have him read ACTS 21b; where Ya'akov declares that it was
>      a LIE that Sha'ul would say that the Jewish Believers should not be
>      circumcising their children, and forsaking Torah; and let him draw
>      his own conclusions :-)

So, in other words, they would be in sin, and if he were a member of your
congregation you would be obligated to admonish/excommunicate him?  What
are you sneaking around about?  Just tell us plainly.

> TA> Objectively speaking, is it sin today for a Jewish believer in Messiah
> TA> Jesus to fail to celebrate Yom Kippur?
>      Y'shua IS our Yom Kippur.  Why would a Jewish Believer not want
>      to celebrate this?

Because, biblically speaking, he can't.  There is no bloody sacrifice, no
Levitical priest, no scapegoat.  It is impossible to celebrate a biblical
Yom Kippur today.  He can follow the rabbinic traditions - additions to the
Scriptures - as you apparently do, but then this would not be a religious
holiday, but a cultural/social one.  What you celebrate is a human
tradition pure and simple.

But the qustion is, would he be in sin if he didn't follow your traditions
regarding Yom Kippur?  Since you believe this command is still valid, then
I assume you also believe that a MJ who didn't celebrate Yom Kippur would
be in sin.  And if he persisted in this sin, he would be in jeopardy of
eternal damnation for willfully neglecting the law of God.  Just answer
plainly.

> TA> How should I disciple this convert to Messiah?
>      Well; after listening to you over the years; I'd say the best
>      advice for him would be for you to council him to turn tail and
>      leave your discipleship as soon as possible!

Thanks for the vote of confidence.  I'll send him right over. :-)

-- 
Tom Albrecht