HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: god, i'm immature
Date: 30 Sep 92 15:10:11 GMT
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Originator: news@nimaster

In article <92273.165248RVESTERM@vma.cc.nd.edu> <RVESTERM@vma.cc.nd.edu> writes:
>anybody besides me still get that pre-adolescent rush from looking up
>dirty words in the dictionary?

>my franklin baseball encyclopedia contains the following gem: one
>charles tebeau accumulated six at bats with the 1895 cleveland spiders.
>mr. tebeau's nickname was (i kid you not) "pussy".

The amazing thing about this is that he was not related to either
Patsy Tebeau or White Wings Tebeau, who were his teammates.  White
Wings Tebeau was also known as Hard Call, and you can make of that
whatever you wish.

(Oliver Wendell (Patsy) Tebeau and George E. (White Wings (Hard Call))
Tebeau were brothers.  The Tebeau Trio is all the Tebeaus who ever played
MLB.)

>however, i was dissapointed to find that there has never been a
>"shithead" who played major league baseball.

Gee, I could name you a couple dozen...  8-)
From: gajarsky@pilot.njin.net (Bob Gajarsky)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: alfredo griffin
Date: 29 Sep 92 02:58:24 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Somewhere in Hoboken

there was a reason why alfredo did this, and they expanded on it
 today on the sports station in town.

if alfredo swings deliberately, and they finish the inning quickly, the
 jays get a win.

if they try to get runs, and get lots of htem (while they're winning
 by like 10 runs at that point), and it keeps raining, and it
 gets called, *the game hasn't gone 5 innings*, and the jays don't
 get a win.

considering they're in a pennant race, where every win could be quite
 important, i don't blame alfredo (or cito) one bit.

one other thing - this stuff about alfredo giving as many losses as
 ozzie wins is stupid, for a couple reasons.  first, ozzie never
 saved 130 runs on defense in 1982 (read the abstract then for
 the really clear-cut reason of why this can't be true).  also,
 ozzie STARTED.  all the time.  every game.  alfredo hasn't.  

he's just a really bad player who has played some of the time.  if he
 played EVERY game this year, like he has in recent seasons, i could
 see you saying he's tremendously hurt a team.  but this year?  cito,
 at least for a while, let alfredo sit on the bench next to him...

- bob gaj
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: Bonds "choke"?
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 12:15:39 GMT

In article <92275.012838RVESTERM@vma.cc.nd.edu> <RVESTERM@vma.cc.nd.edu> writes:
>it is stupid to say bonds is a choke player because he batted .002 or
>whatever in the lcs, because the sample space is really really small.

>it is stupid to say bell is a clutch player because he batted five zillion
>or whatever, because, again, the sample space is really really small.

So far, so good.

>however, it seems to me that a lot of people are going beyond this, and
>saying, "there is no such thing as a choke or a clutch player.  you're
>an idiot if you think there is."

Nobody's saying this.  What we *are* saying is that we can't seem to find
any, no matter how hard we look, even using definitions that *do* allow
for a larger sample size.  And that players who, with the larger sample
sizes, show a situational difference, don't seem to repeat.

>i just can't see how you can deny any of the following statements:

>   1) ballplayers are humans, not robots.

>   2) different humans react differently to pressure.  some react well,
>      some react poorly.

>   3) there is a hell of a lot of pressure during the post-season.

4) Ballplayers are selected for their ability to perform uner pressure
in a process that starts in T-ball and goes on up through AAA and late-
season call-ups.

5) Even though pressure makes some players react one way or another, 
there is no way of predicting such a reaction, no matter how large
the sample size, certainly not with a group of people who generally
*do* perform well under pressure.  After all, the minors have pressure,
too, even though there are fewer fans: one's career depends on one's
performance, far *more* than it does when one has a 5-year contract.

>those three things, in my mind, at least, add up to "there are choke
>players, and there are clutch players."

The data suggest otherwise.  Most choke players simply don
t make it to the majors.  After all, why is there no statistically
significant effect of players batting better/worse with men in 
scoring position?  That's pressure, too, and the general statistical
picture does not show the effect, despite huge samples.

>i honestly don't see how anyone can deny this.

Long years of looking?

>of course, i don't think that you can accurately say WHO is a choke player
>and WHO is a clutch player, because of the small sample spaces.

But see above.  Take a definition that allows a BIG sample size, and you
STILL don't find anything that has predictive value.

>but this is a far cry from saying there is no such beast.

Well, tell us where to look.  Right now it looks like a unicorn...

Roger
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Re: RG's 1992 Tribe Front Office Report Card
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 03:28:08 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.001039.9511@Princeton.EDU> niepornt@fish.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent) writes:
>
>Doug Jones -- 11-8, 1.86 ERA.  106.6 IP.  34 Sv, 4 BS.  34 IR, 9 Scored.
>
>Steve Olin --  8-5, 2.47 ERA.   83.6 IP.  28 Sv, 7 BS.  48 IR, 10 Scored.
>Lilliquist --  5-3  1.62 ERA.   61 IP.    6 Sv, 4 BS, 13 Holds.  51-10 IR/Sc.

Hm.  Actually, I didn't think Doug Jones had been this good this year.
Of course he does play in the Astrodome.  But still...  I thought he
was running a 2.30 ERA with a lot more blown saves.  (I *really* need
to bone up on my NL stats. :-)

>Well, Valentine, I admit he's older than Ken Griffey Jr., but I find it
>hard to call a 26 year old player *old.*
>
>He also managed to put up a 287/366/364 in Oakland, while playing
>second, third, short, left, center, and right.  In short, he's a poor
>man's Tony Phillips. 

Huh!  Yeah, you are right.  I take back both the "old" and the
"mediocre".  Those mediocre stats were put up when he was 21/22.  And
it's hard to criticize *anybody* who is playing in the majors at that
age.  (Though I still haven't learned my lesson, and am now
criticizing Lewis for being a washout.)

Can I have Browne for the Red Sox?  I promise him a starting job at
2B!  (Then all we would have to do is get rid of Jody Reed.)

>I don't understand why anyone thinks Howard was any good.  Yes, he hit
>better than Billy Hatcher.  But then again, who doesn't?  Howard hit
>284/315/350.  He had 15 SB, 8 CS.   He fits in well with Glenallen "Real
>men don't walk" Hill, though.

Oh.  I am again wrong.  Egg on my face.  (Had him on my roto team for
a while, and was of course quite pleased with the results.)

>Don't forget letting Rivera play all year over Valentin.

Don't remind me.  Please.

>And giving Herm Winningham 200+ ABs.  Or do you blame those on the manager?

I'm still trying to figure this one out.  Why would anybody *ever* use
Herm Winningham for *anything*?  He can't hit, can't steal bases, and
doesn't walk.  He plays decent defense, but Zupcic isn't *that* much
worse.  Even Hatcher is better than Winningham.

Cheers,
-Valentine

-- 
Make outs, not walks!					tedward@cs.cornell.edu
Clemens four Cy Young!
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: gerry@macadam.mpce.mq.edu.au (Gerry Myerson)
Subject: Active Career HR Leaders, by Season
Originator: gerry@macadam.mpce.mq.edu.au
Organization: School of MPCE, Macquarie University, Australia.
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 01:20:48 GMT

Who was the leader in career home runs among players active in 1964? 
Here's a list I've compiled which gives, for every season since 1936, the 
player active during the season with the most career home runs at the end 
of the season. E.g., at the end of 1936, Lou Gehrig led all active players 
with 427. Of course, Ruth was the leader from sometime early in the 20s 
until his retirement in 1935. I haven't tried to extend the list back 
before Ruth. Corrections welcome. 

1936 Gehrig    427      1956 Williams  418      1976 Aaron     755
1937   "       464      1957   "       456      1977 McCovey   493
1938   "       493      1958   "       482      1978   "       505
1939   "       493      1959   "       492      1979   "       520
1940 Foxx      500      1960   "       521      1980   "       521
1941   "       519      1961 Musial    444      1981 Stargell  472
1942   "       527      1962   "       463      1982   "       475
1943 Ott       463      1963   "       475      1983 Jackson   478
1944 Foxx      527      1964 Mantle    454      1984   "       503
1945   "       534      1965 Mays      505      1985   "       530
1946 Ott       511      1966   "       542      1986   "       548
1947   "       511      1967   "       564      1987   "       563
1948 DiMaggio  303      1968   "       587      1988 Schmidt   542
1949   "       317      1969   "       600      1989   "       548
1950   "       349      1970   "       628      1990 Murray &  379
1951   "       361      1971   "       646           Dw. Evans 
1952 Mize      355      1972 Aaron     673      1991 Winfield  406
1953   "       359      1973   "       713      1992 Winfield  ???
1954 Williams  366      1974   "       733
1955   "       394      1975   "       745

Notes: 1. Gehrig took over in mid-season 1935 when Ruth retired, 
similarly, Foxx took the lead when Gehrig had to quit early in 1939, etc. 
2. Foxx didn't play in 1943 (military service?). 
3. Mize was never far behind DiMaggio, e.g., at the end of 1949 he had 316, 
so it's quite possible that the lead changed hands several times. 
4. On Opening Day, 1964, the leaders were Mathews 422, Mantle 419, and 
Mays 406. At season's end, it was Mantle 454, Mays 453, Mathews 445. So the 
lead changed hands at least once, but possibly several times that year. 
5. The 1990 season started with Dwight Evans 366, Winfield 357, Dale 
Murphy 354, Murray 353; it ended Evans and Murray 379, Winfield and 
Murphy 378. 

Gerry Myerson
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: rstimets@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (robert and stimets)
Subject: Re: Better than Runs
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 18:13:18 GMT

In article <1992Sep28.165426.929@adobe.com> snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols) writes:
>In article <92272.091051IOR@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> Thomas Hyer <IOR@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> writes:
>>  Bunched runs are not worth _quite_ as much as single runs,
>>because they _intrinsically_ tend to come in games you'll
>>win anyway.  This is less important in the higher-scoring
>>Apostatic League, but still an important effect.
>
>I'm not sure I understand this statement.  Are you really saying that
>scoring a single run in an inning is more valuable than scoring three runs
>in the inning?
>
I sure hope he's not saying this.  My impression is that he's saying
a single run in three single innings is better than three runs in one 
inning.

Of course, if a team scores three runs THIS inning, they'll have two 
MORE innings to score.  If he's further assuming that the team does
NOT score the next two innings, perhaps there may be something to it.
After all, the pitcher has worked through three innings of trouble.
But it all depends on how those runs came about.

Scenario 1:  Suppose in inning 1, the pitcher allows a leadoff single, a walk,
     and a first-pitch home run.  After a discussion with the manager, he
     bears down to retire the next nine batters.

Scenario 2:  Suppose in inning 1, the pitcher allows a triple, a walk, an 
     infield single, a two-run double, a one-run single, and a walk.
     A manager like Roger Craig would yank the pitcher then and there, 
     regardless of whether whoever was supposed to replace him was ready
     or not.  Whatever happens, though, the pitcher's effectiveness will
     have been seriously reduced.

The question, then, is why say that a team who scores a lot of runs in
an inning will probably will that game, though the actual process of
scoring those many runs is only a side-effect, and not a cause of that win?

RStimets



Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: wilbanks@spot.Colorado.EDU (Wendell Gee)
Subject: BAERGA FOR AL MVP!!!
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 22:41:51 GMT

I'm tired of hearing how great McGwire and Carter are this year. 
Carlos Baegra has numbers. They don't.

For one thing, McGwire hit a heck of a lot of homers in the first three
months of the season, then faded, got injured, and now is hitting about 
average. Joe Carter, though I admire him as a player with a work ethic and 
a few working brain cells, played in a pure hitter's park and had Alomar,
Winfield, Gruber (in the middle of the season), and Olerud (lately)
in the lineup. Of course you'll produce 100 RBI if you're an above-avg 
hitter in athe best hitter's park this side of Fenway. 

But there is a case for Carlos Baerga. He has been a one-man offensive 
machiune this year: 200 hits, 100 RBI, and flashes of brillance at 2b. 
The Native Americans haven't had a hitter like him since, well, Joe Carter.
And the truth is that the Indians don't have the talent the Jays, A's, or 
most of the American League. That Baerga can do this well in cavernous 
Municipal Stadium is amazing. He deserves the MVP. 

If Cleveland can hang on to him, maybe they might be able to build a 
contending team.

-- 
Dylan Wilbanks, Classics major, AND NOW Environmental Conservation!
Hobbes:"Why do we always play war and not peace?"|Currently at:
Calvin:"Too few role models."                    |Box 1143
Ren-n-Stimpy in '92! Vote for a real cartoon!    |Boulder, CO 80306
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: kbos@carina.unm.edu (Kurt "Some Guy" Bose)
Subject: Archive Site Information...
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 15:10:34 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

 am pleased to announce that a) the site at wuarchive is open, and b) I have
managed to restore file transfer capability.  The combination of a) and b) means
that the site for all intents and purposes is ready to accept files.  I have a
number of files to put on the site myself, pending permission granted by the
writers of said files.  Sorry to put this in a post, but hopefully the items
I ask for will inspire anyone I miss to pipe up and offer their input.

I have several files, and would like to have the following people, if possible,
respond to a request to put their work into the archive site:

Dave Grabiner, for his UNIX port of the Brock2 system.  (I'm also writing Bill 
James for any work derivative from him; ditto for anyone else involved in any
work)

Stephen Z. Stein, for his Lineup Toy.

Brian Engel, for the Canonical List of Bermanisms.  (Hey, I want to make sure
this doesn't turn into just a SDCN site... :) )

I also have a copy of Abbott & Costello's "Who's on First" sketch, which has
been requested in the past; am I correct in believing no present copyright is
in existence?

************

Next, there are many items, lists, concepts, blather, etc. that comes through
which I feel would be nice to have at the site, at least in end of season form.

Would it be possible for the owners/compilers/reporters of any of the following,
or anything that I've missed, to give me permission and/or mail me submissions
for the archive site?

-Game Score Report (end of seasonal)
-1992 R.S.BB Mock Expansion Draft (obviously, when it's over)
-Support Neutral Stats (end of season)
-R.S.BB Hall of Fame
-R.S.BB Major Award Voting (all years)
-MLV Ratings (seasonal)
-JACK-PAC Reports
-BB DDD (I don't WANT to type the whole name!) Reports
-RC/27 Ratings (end of season) (But Nelson can't include Alou or R. Sanders) :)
-Anything anyone deems important dealing with Japanese leagues, American
 Legion squads, Mexican leagues???  This site is for ANYTHING baseball related.
 If you've got something we want, offer it.  If there's interest in something,
 I'll try to find it.

-Most importantly, could Donald Hearth or someone else PLEASE send major league
 statistic reports!?!?!?  Especially from the end of the season, but as long as
 there is room, I'd accept any reports.

Anything else?  Send it in!  I know I've missed things here that should be 
at the site, so if I've failed to mention anything, remind me via e-mail.

Oh, for those who don't remember, the site is:

wuarchive.wustl.edu (128.252.135.4)
/doc/misc/sports/mlb

-- 
Kurt Bose (as in Daisy, not Rose) * kbos@carina.unm.edu * Make..oh, you know.---
-"The fatal tendency of mankind to leave off thinking about a thing when it is--
--no longer doubtful is the cause of half their errors.  The cause of the other-
---half can be attributed to playing Jose Offerman at short." - John Stuart Mill
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: Ryan.J.Victor@dartmouth.edu (Ryan J. Victor)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Les Expos.... Predictions.
Date: 26 Sep 92 23:55:39 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
X-Posted-From: InterNews1.0a5@newshost.dartmouth.edu

In article <19712@ector.cs.purdue.edu>
gritter@cs.purdue.EDU (Carl R. Gritter) writes:

> undy) writes:
> >BTW - If Montreal puts Colbrunn at 1B next year, they're fools.
> 
> They may not have anyone else to play there.  Wallach?  Maybe, but I
> hope not.  Calderon?  If he could learn to play defense at first, I'd
> love this scenario, but so far he hasn't.  Moises Alou?  Possible, but
> it would seem a stupid to waste his excellent outfield talents at
> first when Calderon is in left.  It might become more logical when
> Rondell White enters the major league picture.  Vanderwal?  Possible,
> but he would have been there this year, if Montreal thought this was a
> viable option.  Barbarie?  Again, he would have been there this year,
> if this was a viable option.  Willard?  I hope not.

You know, I don't think that Colbrunn at first would be such  a bad
thing. Firstly, I haven't seen a guy who hits the ball as hard on a
line as he does in a while. His occasional lapses at the plate seem to
come (at least in the opinion of Ken Singleton) when there is no one on
base and he, like a young player does, swings for the fence. With men
on base that dude positively smokes the ball, and usually on a line.
That suggests a good swing to me. I think I'd like him in the everyday
lineup.

Secondly, I really like what I see of Tim Laker behind the plate. At a
game against the Mets that I attended recently, he had some really key
blocked balls and I don't think anyone will disagree that he has a
cannon for an arm. I'm really not sure how he'll fare as a hitter but I
feel really confident about having him behind the plate. Besides, I
don't think Colbrunn's elbow will ever be the same.Call it a gut
feeling. 

As for the Alou/Calderon dilemma, I have absolutely no clue as to what
nos amours should do about that. Maybe trade Calderon for a starting
pitcher so I won't have to watch either Barnes, Nabholz, or especially
Gardner next year. 

Three other questions for everybody in Expoland. How many years does
Dennis Martinez have left in that arm of his? Also, what about making
Mel Rojas a starter next year. Have him start training early to build
up some resilience in that arm and see if that forkball can shut down
teams for seven or eight innings. Just a thought that struck me as I
wondered if the team could get by with Fassero and Valdez in the
lefty/righty set-up spots. Lastly, are there any
high-to-ridiculously-priced free agent pitchers in the market this year
that the Expos might try to sign? I know the money's not there but I
like to dream about these things anyway. Let me know what you think
about the other stuff, too.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: drw3l@delmarva.evsc.Virginia.EDU (David Robert Walker)
Subject: Another rule change suggestion
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 19:36:09 GMT

Have you noticed games getting longer? Of course. And one of the 
culprits is more relaif pitchers, especially when they are
inserted in mid-inning, necessitating walking in from the bullpen,
warming up, etc. It is especially bad when managers (increasingly)
bring in pitchers for one batter, so you go through this warm up
act twice or more each inning. So here is a very humble suggestion...

Any pitcher, who begins an inning or enters an inning, must pitch to
three batters, unless he completes the inning before facing three or
a scheduled batter (other than the first) is replaced. He can be 
replaced before pitching to the changed batter.

What I mean by the last part is: The pitcher must face one batter
(current rule). If the opponents pinch-hit for him, tough: the
pitcher still must face three. If the second batter is pinch-hit for,
then the pitcher can be replaced; but if he stays for that batter, he
must face the third. Notice that this also applies to pitchers who
begin an inning. A tiring pitcher would be obligated to face three
batters before the ace could be brought in. Better, IMO, to make the
change between innings.

Since this rule opposes the current trend to ever greater specialization,
I expect it to have 0 chance with the real game. What do the people here
think?
               Clay D.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: fester@island.COM (Mike Fester)
Subject: Re: Sheffield is NL MVP
Organization: /usr/local/rn/organization
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 16:37:24 GMT

In article <1992Sep27.211631.4581@leland.Stanford.EDU> claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
>In article <17596@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> fzchen@othello.ucdavis.edu writes:

>>This is why I quit sabremetrics.  Who says OBP is more important than 
>>SLG???!!!  I think Caminiti vs. Pendleton is simple.  Poll the GM's and

>Like, because studies show that a point of OBP is worth about 1.2 points of
>SLG (or something like that)?

For confirmation, see teams like Detroit vs Baltimore.

>>managers of both leagues and ask who they would want on their team if
>>either could be had at the same salary...Caminiti.  Not!

>Hmmm.  A couple years ago, if you had asked the GMs whether if they wanted
>Luis Polonia or Claudell Washington, I bet most of them would have said
>Washington.

Really? Is that why Washington was cut a couple years ago an Polonia wasn't?

Mike
-- 
Disclaimer - I'm only doing what the little voices tell me to do.