From: jaker@csugrad.cs.vt.edu (Jake Rose)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Jesus & the Sin of the World
Date: 28 Aug 92 16:03:22 GMT
Organization: Virginia Tech Computer Science Dept, Blacksburg, VA

sbuckley@fraser.sfu.ca (Stephen Buckley) writes:


>jaker@csugrad.cs.vt.edu (Jake Rose) writes:

>>In article <sbuckley.714450274@sfu.ca>, sbuckley@fraser.sfu.ca (Stephen
>>Buckley) wrote:
>>>   both answers are yes.  all sins have been forgiven.  but that was
>>> just good friday.  on easter sunday, jesus was resurrected and provided
>>> with eternal life along with all who accept the sacrifice.  with our

>>"provided with eternal life"?  I didn't think a god needed to be "provided"
>>with anything...

>  jesus was a mortal man who was raised to eternal life.

Well, then your form of Christianity is different than that of other people
even in this newsgroup.

>>> free will, we must choose to come to god in jesus for salvation.  so
>>> an atheist is forgiven, but to receive eternal life, one must accept jesus
>>> as saviour.

>>I'm sorry, but all religions are the same - they threaten those who don't
>>follow them so that they'll scare people into joining them.  It's Darwinism,
>>really - you Christians try to scare people into joining you, so you gain
>>members.  Real religions that are in fact loving of their neighbors, etcetera
>>(the things Christian religions tend to claim but *typically* aren't), die out
>>since nobody's particularly interested in wasting time bowing and scraping to
>>gods that may or may not exist and probably don't...  ...flame me if you like,
>>these are my opinions.

>  there is no reward for a body count of how many people are converted to
>jesus.  i don't mean to scare anyone into anything.  and i'm sorry for 
>all the unloving christians in the world.  and i've no vested interest
>in perpetuating christianity for the sake of it as a social institution.
>and all religions are not the same.  please, please don't judge all
>christians by the stereotype and certainly please don't judge jesus by 
>human failings.

Of course you don't.  That's the beauty of it.  You believe in this probable
bunk, and so you try to live by it and because you think it's the one true
path, you try to help others to see "the light", right?  In doing so, you are
attempting to propagate your ideology, regardless of whether you're doing it
maliciously (ie KKK, crusades, etcetera).  I should have said "all successful
religions are the same in this regard" - they are, too.

>---                          
>     Stephen Buckley        /    the meaning of life is the answer
>     sbuckley@sfu.ca       /      to God's question in the Bible:
>   TrueNorthStrong&Free   /        
>      1-800-REALITY      /    "What are you going to do with my Son?"

If this last refers to "Jesus Christ" (not his real name, even), it is easily
answerable.  A long time ago, he was nailed to some planks and killed.  Not a
nice way to go, but he's dead.  Probably what happened next was that his
ex-followers decided they couldn't continue to hold their power over the masses
unless they did something to capture the imagination and awe of them once again.
The next step, of course, was to bribe certain people, fake certain events, and
claim miracles.  It's very simple, really.  It seems to have worked, too.  Just
because something is valid doesn't make it true (if you'd like scenarios, here's
a series for you to read by Orson Scott Card (who is a Mormon, by the way)):

Ender's Game
Speaker for the Dead
Xenocide

You'll find them in the SF section of your bookstore.  Very good works.  The
last one is most appropriate to this discussion, although it is not nearly as
good as the first two (I'm about 2/3 through it now, though - it might get
better).

Wulf                    | "Martha, it's another one of those CS majors asking
jaker@csugrad.cs.vt.edu |  if cow chips are pin-compatible with 68040s..."