HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: carney@rocky.rational.com (Mike Carney)
Subject: Re: Badass Karate (-Do?)
Organization: Rational, Santa Clara, CA
	<25507@sybase.sybase.com> <74160@apple.apple.COM>
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 00:21:31 GMT


In article <74160@apple.apple.COM> mikel@Apple.COM (Mikel Evins) writes:
> In article <25507@sybase.sybase.com> thorick@sybase.com (Thorick Chow) writes:
> >I've sometimes wondered why he didn't try full-time teaching of MA
> >for a living.  One thing that comes to mind is that by NOT depending
> >on it for a living, he could do and teach exactly as he saw fit
> >without worrying about getting or retaining the number of students
> >necessary to make a living at it (though I think he usually had
> >enough students that he could have gotten by)..   i.e. he didn't
> >have to 'sell out' or commercialize (read 'cheapen' to the purist)...
> 
> There are bad people both in and out of commercial schools,
> and there are good people both in and out of commercial schools.
> 
> One can argue that, if a person is teaching without a fee,
> or is not running a commercial school, that he or she must
> be teaching from noble motives, but that is a specious
> argument. After all, greed is not the only ignoble motivation
> that people might have for doing something.

On the other hand...

I'm kind of new to martial arts (been studying for about 2 years now).
I study a style called Cuong Nhu (vietnamese for Hard/Soft). The style
was founded around 1965 by Master Ngo Dong, and is based on techniques
from seven other styles that he mastered:
        Shotokan
        Vovinam
        Boxing
        Wing Chun
        Judo
        Aikido
        Tai Chi

The lower belts in the style concentrate more on the hard/external
styles above, and as progress is made, soft/internal elements are
added to the curriculum.

He founded the style on a philosophy that in order to teach, one must
have a love of the art, and a desire to teach. So no teacher of this
style worldwide is allowed to make a profit by teaching. My classes
are free (there are about 7 regular students). The instructor teaches
out of a rec room at an elementary school that lets him use the
facilities at no charge. There are some studios that charge fees,
but the charge for those students is limited to the cost for the
upkeep of the dojo.

To make a long story short (I know, too late :-), I agree that you can
have good and bad teachers in either commercial schools, or with
people who just teach on their own. My experience with Cuong Nhu has
(happily) been very positive.
--
 ____________________________________________
|                        _   _   _+          |
|   Michael D. Carney   /_`-'_`-'_|  \+/     |
|   carney@rational.com \_`M'_`C'_| _<=>_    |                      
|                         `-' `-' 0/ .[\ ]   |
|   "Remember...                  \/[.[\\]   |
|    no matter where you          | /_\_\/   |
|    go, there you are" -B.B      | [] []    |
|_________________________________|_d]_[b____|
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: bwebb@nrchh129.RICH.nt.com (Brad Webb)
Subject: RE: TRAINING BOREDS
Organization: Northern Telecom, Inc.
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 20:34:51 GMT

Keywords: 


HOW EASY IS IT TO BREAK THOSE PC BOARDS....

A GOOD OAK OR PINE BOARD SET 3 TO 4 FT INTO THE GROUND
DOES WONDERS FOR BODY LOCK... REMEMBER THOUGH DON'T THINK TOO
MUCH.. AND DON'T HIT TO HARD...
From: rob@austin.ibm.com
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Thai Pads
Keywords: Thai Pads, sheilds, bags, focus mits
Date: 6 Nov 92 19:36:04 GMT
Organization: IBM Austin
Originator: @woodyw.austin.ibm.com


Anyone know of a mail order place I can get quality Thai Pads.
These need to be really thick in order to absorb the most powerful
of kicks.  Preferably leather so that they last a long time.
I'm not talking about the whimpy equipment made people like Macho, Century etc.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: schan@birch.srg.af.mil (Stephen Chan x4485)
Subject: Re: 10th Dan & Badass Karate Bullshit
Organization: SRG, Arinc Research Corp., Annapolis, MD
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 15:22:29 GMT

In article <1992Nov11.193047.18282@zip.eecs.umich.edu> lauren@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Brian T. Murray) writes:
>2.   It stands to reason that with so many 70 year olds being in good
>     shape, some of them must be in *great* shape.
>
>3.   Presumably, a 70 year old person, in great physical shape, who
>     has been studying martial arts for 50-60 years must be a
>     formidable adversary.

	I've been scorched by slow old, men in fencing, and in retrospect, the
issue wasn't what shape they were in. It was because my timing was easy to
figure (I had only one speed), and my attacks were predictable. And they had
enough presence of mind to exploit it. It's basically the old age and treachery
thing.
	Ever go to see a movie, and maybe 10 minutes into the movie, you know
pretty much what the entire movie is going to be like? That must be what it's
like for these oldsters to play with us.

	No doubt, these little old men sit around and give us reviews, "Well,
Stephen's latest work is energetic, but is full of the standard
cliche's. Entertaining, but predictable, and horribly overacted - hard to tell
if he's being campy, if he really expects to fight this way. Wait for it to
come out on videotape."
--
	Stephen Chan
	uunet!srg!schan or uunet!srg!schan@uunet.uu.net
From: z_coolidgeas@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: re: training boards
Date: 9 Nov 92 21:35:28 GMT
Article-I.D.: ccsvax.1992Nov9.153528.1762
Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University

Training boards:  

	Start with styrafoam and work your way up to balsa wood.:)


Sorry.  Couldn't help it.

--Akane
From: jon@zeus.med.utah.edu (Jonathan Byrd)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Kendo tournament report
Date: 10 Nov 92 23:29:51 GMT
Article-I.D.: zeus.JON.92Nov10162951
Distribution: rec
Organization: University of Utah

In article <24139@alice.att.com> garry@alice.att.com (garry hodgson) writes:

   I know that many of the folks on r.m.a. are down on tournaments,
   but I still feel that if you go to the right ones, and compete
   with the right attitude, they can be a valuable learning experience.

I agree with Garry wholeheartedly.  I have been on the receiving end
of many bad calls (and even more painful blows), but I have had a
positive experience in every single tournament I have entered.
Attitude is everything.  If you cultivate a discriminating mind, you
can learn from bad examples as well as good ones.

--
jonathan byrd
jon@apollo.med.utah.edu
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: bburgar@cix.compulink.co.uk (Bill Burgar)
Subject: Questions about wado-ryu, karate-books and being attacked
Reply-To: bburgar@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 07:54:00 +0000

Eskil Brun (eskilb@dhhalden.no) writes:
>I'm a very fresh (9. kyu) student of wado-ryu karate-do. I really
>enjoy it.
>
>I'm wondering if anyone else out there is practicing wado-ryu? I have
>the impression that wado-ryu is not very common.
>
>Now for my questions:
>
>Question 1: Books about wado-ryu karate-do.
>
>   I have tried to find books in english about wado-ryu, but there seems
>   to be none available. I found one book:
>                 An introduction to Wado-Ryu karate      / Patterson, Cecil T.     1974
>   But it's no longer available from the publishers.
>
[snip]
>Thank you all for reading this.
><bow>
>:-)


I don't have my lists with me right now but I'm sure there are quite
a few Wado books knocking around. Try going through a good Karate 
Magazine and calling a few of the companies with ads.


[list of books deleted]


> 51 Karate kata: heian 4                    / Nakayama, Masatoshi     1968
> 57 Karate kata: heian 5                    / Nakayama, Masatoshi     1969
> 59 Karate kata, heian 1, tekki 1           / Nakayama, Masatoshi     1970
> 61 Karate kata, tekki 2, tekki 3           / Nakayama, Masatoshi     1971
>118 Karate Kata: heian 2, heian 3           / Nakayama, Masatoshi     1970


I didn't know these books were still available. If anyone can point me in
the right direction to get them, please do so.


>208 The karate experience : a way of life   / Hassell, Randall G      1980
I didn't know about this one, anybody got any info?


These books...
>158 Spirit of the empty hand                / Schmidt, Stan           1984
>160 Moving Zen : karate as a way to gentlen / Nicol, C. W             1975
both highly recommeded for any karate style (but particularly Shotokan)!


Great list Eskil, thanks!


Bill Burgar.
From: trose@next.com
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Detailed review of Gracie 'Basics' tapes
Date: 5 Nov 92 14:10:13 GMT
Reply-To: trose@next.com

In article <1992Oct28.212235.25143@PA.dec.com> stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com  
(Todd I. Stark) writes:
> 
> I received my copy of the 'Basic Techniques of Gracie Jiu-Jitsu'


This is an excellent post.  I personally would love to 
see more of this style, content, and expertise on this
newsgroup rather than the 'who's the toughest' or 'stupid
street tricks' that we have been seeing.   Todd's post 
transcends style boundaries and  is very helpful and informative.  

thank you Todd

tracy in boston
trose@next.com
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: urbin@interlan.interlan.com (Mark Urbin)
Subject: Re: M. Mugging in NY Times
Organization: Racal-Datacom
Distribution: rec
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 19:07:01 GMT

In article <1992Nov11.124906.15854@vax5.cit.cornell.edu> plc@vax5.cit.cornell.edu writes:
>In case anyone's interested...
>I just read an article about Model Mugging in today's (Nov. 11) New York
>Times, page 1 of the Metro Section.  It was written from the point of the of
>the model muggers--quite interesting.  We also get to see a picture of the
>formidable amount of shielding they need to wear!  And I thought that sparring
>in a hoku was sweaty work....

   In a simular note, yesterday's (11/10/92) Boston Globe had a front page 
article on a designer selling label pins with thick, 6 inch pins.  Ads ran 
for the pin showed a woman stabbing a male attacker with the pin.  Of course 
a state legislator came out against them.  She (Barbra Grey, D-Framingham 
for those interested) stated that such pins would be used against the woman 
more often than the woman would defend herself with it.  This is Ms. Grey's 
opinion on all personal defense weapons.  
  Given such press coverage, such pins will be probably banned in Boston 
within six months.
From: sc0a@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (SHYUAN-FANG CHEN)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: The similarity among soft and internal MA
Date: 13 Nov 92 01:51:05 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

The similarities among Tai Chi, Hsing-I, Pa Kua, Mi Tzung, and Aikido, which
are called soft and internal martial art, are
1. They can improve the health a lot.  Most famous Tai Chi masters were
heavily sick when they were young.
2. The 60-70 year-old masters can easily defeat some 20-year-old people.
3. They all have related weapon systems.  Weapons are the extensions of hands.
   The skills and theories are the same.

   
-- 


                               Shyuan-Fang Chen (Frank)
                               Network ID:SC0A@LEHIGH.EDU
                               (H):(215)758-1736,(O):(215)758-3582
From: y41@aix320a.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (Jeffrey Hazelwood)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: 10th Dan & Badass Karate Bullshit
Date: 11 Nov 92 12:48:58 GMT
Organization: University of Heidelberg, Germany



Ok folks pay attention.  

10th Dans
---------

Anyone claiming to be a tenth Dan is most likely full of shit. Anyone 
studying from a 10th Dan is most likely under the 10th Dan Spell.
The 10th Dan Spell is a very dangerous thing. People under the 10th 
Dan Spell are very gullible. 

As far as traditionalists are concerned, if they are traditionalists
then they wouldn't be wearing a belt in the first place, unless of
course their jeans are too baggy.

Summary:  It doesn't matter what kind of Dan you have.

Badass Karate
-------------

There is no Badass Karate, only Badass People.  Anyone who thinks
they are a Badass or most likely NOT.  Unfortunately, many people
who are under the 10th Dan Spell (see above) also easily fall under
the Badass Spell.  

A 70 Year old man whoopin' some young guys ass???? Possible, but 
highly unlikely. Get real. I have never met a 70 year old man whose 
ass I couldn't kick. Not that that means there isn't some tough
old guy out there, it's just I don't believe he could whoop my ass.
I guess you folks believe those guys in the Kung Fu movies can really 
jump from the ground to the top of the Temple as well. 

As far as the different styles are concerned, it is obviously dependant 
upon the skills of the individual.  You can practice the Hardest style 
and still be a pussy or you can practice the Softest (thought to be weaker 
by many, though not true) Style and be tough.  You can also know every kata,
technique, kung fu form, and every martial art there is and still
get your ass kicked!  

Summary:  There is no Badass Karate, maybe a few tough folks.

Advice 1 The Martial Art World is full of bullshit "Masters".
Advice 2 Just because the teacher is oriental doesn't mean shit!! They can
         bullshit in very clever oriental ways. 

Advice 3  Learn, and don't worry about belts, Masters and other nonsense.


I hope no one Death Touches me!! Ha Ha Ha Ha!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeffrey T. Hazelwood                    Universitdt Heidelberg
EMAIL: y41@ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de       Heidelberg, Germany 
            "God is dead." - Nietsche    "Nietsche is dead." - God
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: gee@col.hp.com (Ken Gee)
Subject: Re: Ted's Aikido Tips #1
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 20:47:50 GMT
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division


>My all time top tip is for Kaiten-Nage (spelling). Just as you are
>being thrown, reach up with your free hand and grab your opponents
>bollocks (men only). The result is often amusing.

	The opening for that should only exist on an omote throw.  I usually
bring knee opposite by throwing arm to uke's head as I throw.  If uke doesn't
go with the throw, he gets a faceful of knee. Atemi doesn't always have to be
with the hands.

Ken
From: robinson@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Robinson)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Old fogey fighters
Date: 11 Nov 1992 21:57:37 GMT
Organization: Institute of Cognitive Studies, U.C. Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: cogsci.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Nov11.193047.18282@zip.eecs.umich.edu> lauren@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Brian T. Murray) writes:
>3.   Presumably, a 70 year old person, in great physical shape, who
>     has been studying martial arts for 50-60 years must be a
>     formidable adversary.

Some time ago, I was talking to one of the boxing coaches here.  I was 
explaining that T'ai Chi was an art that took a long time to develop, 
that T'ai Chi fighters were just hitting their stride in their 40's, and
that the old ones are pretty much invincible.

He then gave me his opinion that any fighter that lasts that long is 
pretty much invincible.  He told me about his father, who was a
professional boxer way back in the beforetimes.  He said his dad has him
completely outclassed, even now.  "Whenever you make the slightest move one
way or the other, he hits you in the head," he said.

The coach is late-50ish, so that would put his father somewhere around 70.



-- 
  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Michael Robinson                          UUCP:   ucbvax!cogsci!robinson
                                        INTERNET: robinson@cogsci.berkeley.edu
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: cschum@engin.umich.edu (Corey Joseph Schumacher)
Subject: Re: Full contact no protection (was Re: Badass Karate)
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 92 15:01:14 EST
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor

In article <1992Nov5.164930.164@ipact.com> pals@ipact.com writes:
>In article <1992Nov4.215421.8721@newshub.ariel.yorku.ca>, 
>cs922096@ariel.yorku.ca (JOSE J. MONTANO) writes:
>> 
>>      If anyone thinks that Muay Thai is undefeated in world competition, I ask
>> you to rent a movie called "Fighting Black Kings", which you can find at any
>> good Blockbuster Video.  It is a documentary about the 1st annual Martial Arts
>> Invitational in Tokyo...
>> The tournament was truly brutal.  You have to see it to believe it.  As the
>> TKD dude in "Perfect Weapon" said...."Full contact-no protection...."  
>
>Excuse me if this sounds naive, but I'm suprised that civilized people
>actually participate in/allow "full contact no protection" martial arts
>competition anymore.  For example, bare knuckle boxing went out a long time
>ago.  Yes, boxers still get hurt, but that's not the point.  It's not hard
>to imagine someone getting maimed or even killed in a contest as described
>above. 
>
>Does this kind of competition still go on?  Does it go on here in the U.S.?
>Would it even be legal?
>
>-- 
>Randy Pals                |pals@ipact.com
>IPACT, Inc.               |

Full contact-No protection doesn't mean no rules.  I've seen a video
from the Pan Am games tryouts in TKD, and this description applie
pretty well.  The only protection they wore was small pads taped to the
tops of theeir feet, and maybe cups (I don't remember). 
Contact was extreme, but most people seemed to come out of it 
banged up but not mangled.  They used all the WTF tournament rules,
of course.  I think it's important, though, that the competitors be
on approximately equal skill levels, so they can defend themselves.

Corey

s
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: dccarr@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (david.c.carr)
Subject: Re: Test Requiremnets-WRITTEN?
Organization: AT&T
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 15:13:16 GMT

From article <13874@pogo.wv.tek.com>, by roberts@pogo.wv.tek.com (Robert Stroud):
> Does anybody regardless of your particular MA have to take a written exam
> as part of your test.  Could those of you who do please post some info.
> about test content and which ranks are required to take a written exam as
> well as the physical exam.

We have written tests for 5th, 4th and 3rd kyu promotions
(green, purple and 3rd degree brown).
The tests are a combination of short answer and matching
and cover basics in history, technique and vocabulary.

Shodan candidates (1st degree black) are required to complete some
sort of project as part of their examination process.
The specifics of the project are negotiated with the
head instructor - an instructional videotape, a dissertation,
teaching the kids' classes for a year, ....


Dave Carr
isshin shorinji ryu okinawa te
ronin, wa bun bushi no michi
"No ordinary moments."
"Don't push the river, but don't pull no punches."
david.c.carr@att.com
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: cyeomans@ms.uky.edu (Charles Yeomans)
Subject: Re: Badass Karate (-Do?)
    <25441@sybase.sybase.com>
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 19:02:52 GMT
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences

In article <25441@sybase.sybase.com> thorick@sybase.com (Thorick Chow) writes:
>In article <720667140snx@paragon.folly.welly.gen.nz> parry_r@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz writes:
>>Yo All!
>>
>>There have been many claims to strong martial arts, weak martial arts,
>>hard arts, soft arts, easy arts, complex arts, ...
>>
>>I want to know what everyone's opinion on the toughest arts are.  My
>>personal favourites are Mouy Thai (or kickboxing), Kyokushinkaikan
>>Karate, some Kempo styles, and some Chinese styles.
>>
>>What's the definition of `The World's Toughest'?  Well, you decide, but
>>some guidelines are good fitness, full contact fighting, and mind over
>>body training.  A good philosophy is also needed to temper the skills.
>>
>
Hmmm.  I just returned from a two-day clinic on Tomiki aikido.  Perhaps
I am a sissy, but I can't say that I find having kote hineri applied to me and
then being slammed face first to the mat, say, twenty times, as easy.

I'd like to know what the easiest martial arts are.

Charles Yeomans
cyeomans@ms.uky.edu
yeomans@austin.onu.edu
From: mccorkl@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Kent Lee McCorkle)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Pushups
Date: 7 Nov 1992 16:46:37 -0600
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: matt.ksu.ksu.edu
Keywords: Pushups, what else?

   I agree that different types of push-ups work different muscles obviously.
I guess it depends on what you plan on doing mainly.  In my karate class we
do push-ups with the arms in tight to the body as that's how we punch.  The
idea being that we build the same muscles thus increasing the power of the
punch.            

Kent L. McCorkle
mccorkl@matt.ksu.ksu.edu

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: ederpc@rtsg.mot.com (Pamela C. Eder)
Subject: Re: 10th Dan & Badass Karate Bullshit
Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 14:51:01 GMT

Because people haven't personally experienced it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist
is a statement I agree with.  There are lots of old "masters" out there who
could kick anyone's butt, yet choose to enhance the art by training and passing
their knowledge to others.  

I personally took a seminar about a two months ago with a 73 year old Kung Fu
Master Quan.  (If you've read the "Wandering Taoist", this is the guy the
book is about)  His enegy level was incredible.  He was still going at the
end of an eight hour workout day, when people 1/3 his age were dying.  Master
Quan could put anyone in their place, but because of the Taoist and Zen
principles he follows, he uses his skill and knowledge to help others gain
understanding of the arts.  

I highly recommend taking one of his seminars if you ever get the chance.  It
will give you an insight to what the arts are really about and improve 
the techniques of your style.

Has anyone ever taken one of Master Quan's seminars??
From: dks@acpub.duke.edu
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Test requirements-written?
Date: 5 Nov 92 21:05:39 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.6721
Reply-To: dks@acpub.duke.edu


	Sorry that I can't help you very much on the written aspect,
or even on the aikido part, but I do study tae kwon do, and when I 
tested for black belt, I did have a short verbal portion, ie "What 
does tae kwon do mean to you?", "Why do you want to have a black 
belt?", etc, for about five minutes.
						-Abdiel
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Aikido Black Belt tests
From: Gerry Santoro - CAC/PSU <GMS@psuvm.psu.edu>
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 20:08:50 EST
Organization: Penn State University

Perhaps I have a strange attitude regarding rank tests, but frankly I
do not feel that a test really proves anything.  Being a university
prof by profession (:-) I can attest that some days people test better
than other days.  I feel this extends to MA tests as well.

A student of MA should be thoroughly examined over a long period of
time by someone trusted to fairly evaluate them with respect to the
criteria of the school, their own progress, and the relative skills of others
of the rank desired.  The actual test should be a mere formality.

This could explain situations where all testees pass, regardless of their
actual performance on the test.  It may have been a bad day for them
when, in fact, the instructors know that on other days the student
performs at the desired level.

After all, what is to be gained by letting a student test and then fail?
Also, IMHO, one should be 'invited' to test and should not ask to test
or be allowed to  test if the instructors have any suspicion that they
are not at the desired skill level.

Besides, MA tests are unlike tests in academia.  Rank in MA is useful for
gauging ones progress but beyond that doesn't mean much.  If rank were
all THAT important than why not simply pay the bucks and buy the rank
you want?  What is important is skill, progress and knowledge.   I fear some
people put too much esteem into rank, which often leads to  dojo
politics.

<bow>

gerry santoro
penn state university
Aikido  Kokikai Penn State