HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: s1172217@giaec.cc.monash.edu.au (Mark Smith)
Subject: Sydney
Organization: Monash University College Gippsland, Churchill, 3842, Australia
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 10:31:32 GMT

Heard a good suggestion today about what to do with the Sydnay experiment.
Almalgamate the Swans and the Magpies and have them play in Sydney under the
name of the Sydney Magpies.

This would do a number of things:

Make sure of bigger crowds in their home games as the supporters of both clubs
would give their wholehearted support to this new and exciting side.

Make a more competitive team, have 18 or 19 Collingwood players fit into the
top 20 from the combined clubs and they'd make the finals every year which
would attract larger crowds due to the huge combined support of both clubs.

Having the Magpies playing at a much better home ground where the spectator
facilities are far better than the current Victoria Park.

Have all the games played by this combine on a sunday so channel 7 can really
boost their ratings so to be able to afford some better commentators.

The club would start on an even financial keel as when you combine the
finanaces of the two clubs it would work out about an even balance sheet.

Well how about it, any thoughts at all?!

+------------------------------------+
|  Mark Smith.                       |
|  <s1172217@giaec.cc.monash.edu.au> |
|  Churchill, Victoria, Australia.   |
|  Monash Uni Gippsland Computing    |
+------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.australian
From: 10764380@eng2.eng.monash.edu.au (ANDREW DOCKERY)
Subject: Re: No reports from GF??
Organization: Faculty of Engineering, Monash University 
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 02:13:54 GMT

In article <EVAN.92Oct8105103@munta.cs.mu.OZ.AU> evan@cs.mu.OZ.AU (Evan Harris) writes:
>
>After all, if Osborne can have his jaw broken and there's no report...  8-)
>

Just because Worsfold didn't get reported for breaking Osbourne's jaw,
doesn't mean that it was right!!! I fail to see how Worsfold could get off
scott free for that incident, and yet Osbourne get reported for wrestling
someone to the ground ( and get a week too!!! ).

Anyway, that's no excuse for not reporting Gary Ablett for striking Pyke.

Andrew

**********************************************************************
*         Andrew Dockery             *     "Let's waste him...no     *
*  10764380@eng2.eng.monash.edu.au   *            offence."          *
*    dox@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au       *        -Corporal Hicks        *
*  Monash Uni, Melbourne, Australia  *           "Aliens"            *
**********************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.australian
From: tom@cs.su.oz.au (Thomas James Jones)
Subject: Re: Second WA Team!
Reply-To: tom@cs.su.oz.au
Organization: Basser Department of Computer Science
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 08:37:39 GMT

In article <1992Oct8.101659.27194@sserve.cc.adfa.oz.au>, broaj2@cspyr1.cs.adfa.oz.au (BROWN ADRIAN) writes:
|> dos105@rsphy2.anu.edu.au (Darren O'Shaughnessy) writes:
|> 
|> >   This looks like a rational set-up to me, except for a couple of things:
|> 
|> >   There would then be two "conferences" as the AFL bigwigs seem to want,
|> >albeit with nine teams each.
|> 
|> 	I'm afraid the truth of it is that Ross Oakley and the VFL commissioners
|> got greedy, and decided that thier competition should be the foundation of
|> a national competition. I am a Victorian, and I believe this to be the worst
|> decision made in Australian Football.> 

	(deleted alternative to AFL)

|> 	This national finals series should bring in immense revenue for the
|> controlling board of AFL directors, and they would concentrate their funds to
|> the betterment of football. :)
|> 
|> Any suggestions for improvements, comments? Ross, is it too late?
|> 

	Of course it is too late.  The WCE have won the flag, and they
	are a member of the AFL, as much as Hawthorn or Essendon, if with
	a shorter history.  You do not provide any good reasons for bothering
	with such a radical change (to current situation), and it seems
	to be an even more half-hearted approach than we ended up with!
	
	Why are you so confident that it is fair to declare 
	'other states' (NSW, Qld, Tas etc) a 'free for all' recruiting for
	your 3 stated leagues?

	It is all very well to complain about what basically amounts to
	the 'good old days', but the VFL has had many years of recruiting the
	top players from the various other states, and it seems to make sense
	to thus allow them representation in what IS the premier league.
	
	Good luck to the Eagles, the AFL and the National Competition,

	tom

|> =======================================================================
|>   ^     ^     o		The Brown Dog.
|>  / \ ^ / \   o       broaj2@cspyr1.cs.adfa.oz.au 
|>  \ () () /  o        
|>  `\  ^  /' o      "and I'm thinking about mortality ...		    
|>    \ U /  o    I'm thinking it's a cheap price we pay for existence .."	
|>    +\ /+ o            
|>      Yooo /                            - Bob Geldof,  
|>     ( \  ( \                   Voyager 2 type things ... 
|> ======================================================================
From: tom@cs.su.oz.au (Thomas James Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.australian
Subject: Re: Ablett for Buckley?
Date: 16 Oct 92 00:32:06 GMT
Reply-To: tom@cs.su.oz.au
Organization: Basser Department of Computer Science

In article <1992Oct15.171226.10140@lugb.latrobe.edu.au>, SOCC9241430E@LUST.LATROBE.EDU.AU (JACKSON,Chris) writes:
|> OK, it is good to see that in the world of professional sports, the Geelong
|> Football club are still the worlds leader in light-hearted humour!!!!!!!!!!
|> Not only have we not won a grand final for 29 years, but when we finally do
|> have a chance to win a final, we bring the likes of Neville Bruns into the
|> team!  I this is not humourous enough, we offer Gazza for a SA upstart like
|> Nathan Buckley......what are we doing?

	Ablett is finished.  At best he seems to have one or two seasons
	more in him.  Geelong have had their chance with this team,
	if they cannot replace it they will slide rapidly as their
	current stars grow old.  
		Ask Essendon (and possibly Hawthorn now) about the difficulties
	of keeping a team at Grand Final ability long term.

|> 
|> No doubt Buckley has class, but i remember so vividly the SA chamions like
|> Tony Antrobus dominating in the AFL at an early stage!  Ablett for Buckley?
|> Get real........
|> Imagine a superstar like gazza in a Bears guernsey.....Nut!!!!!!!!!!!!

	Or sitting on the bench in a  WCE guernsey :-> 

|> Go catters, go gazza.......
|> If we are to trade for Buckley, then we should trade with North for Buckley
|> and Carey for Ablett!!!!!
|> 

	tom

|> 
|> 
|> 
|> ===============================================================================
|> = Chris Jackson,		    = "No longer  can  we  live  with  broken = 
|> = Social Science,		    = dreams,  in a world  where  facades and =
|> = Latrobe University,		    = superficiality cloud the essence of man =
|> = Australia.			    = and his future aspirations......we must =
|> = E-Mail :-			    = cast aside pure materialistic ambitions =
|> = SOCC9241430E@LUST1.LATROBE.EDU.AU = and work on our future.." Peter Garrett = 
|> ===============================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.australian
From: Mark@espionage.curtin.edu.au (Mark Ridge)
Subject: Re: Eagle parade
Organization: Curtin University of Technology
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 00:39:35 GMT

In article <1992Oct7.132030.3711@newscan.canada.sun.com> ptaylor@airfarce.Canada.Sun.COM  writes:
>From: ptaylor@airfarce.Canada.Sun.COM 
>Subject: Re: Eagle parade
>Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 13:20:30 GMT
>
>s1071828@giaec.cc.monash.edu.au (Matthew Long) writes:
>> >Just a couple of points - their psyche doesn't need to be changed, they're
>> >the best team in the league and also the premiers. I very much doubt that
>> >they themselves feel like a 'bunch of wankers' and they certainly wouldn't
>> >want to change the public perception of them over here in Perth (where it
>> >matters). Besides, the League Cup has TRADITIONALLY been won by victorian
>> >teams, so who gives a fuck if a few traditions are chucked out the window?
>> >(certainly not me anyway)
>> >Eagles - Premiers 1992,93,94...
>>    Fuck up wanker, and take your hand off your tossil. Where were all you
>>    Whining eagle supporters at the start of the year when you wrer near the
>>    bottom? If the Eagles win the next two in a row they will be a good team,
>>    until then, they are just a bunch of wankers who got the whole of W.A to
>>    recruit from for 4 - 5 years, and still would not have won the flag if it
>>    were not for Collingwood (my team) dopily losing and giving the Eagles the
>>    double chance.
>
>Methinks I hear violins & smell sour grapes................PK
From: tom@cs.su.oz.au (Thomas James Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.australian
Subject: Re: Sydney
Date: 16 Oct 92 09:28:23 GMT
Reply-To: tom@cs.su.oz.au
Organization: Basser Department of Computer Science

In article <u906789.719221931@bruny>, u906789@bruny.cc.utas.edu.au (Mark Julian Turner) writes:
|> mathers@sibelius.trl.oz.au (Steven Mathers) writes:
|> 
|> >In article <AJP.13.719042251@buc.edu.au>, AJP@buc.edu.au (Alan Penhall) writes:
|> >|> Shift the Sydney (South Melbourne) Swans to Tasmania. Change the name of the 
|> >|> team to the Southern Swans and play their games in Hobart. I believe that
|> >|> the Tassie State Government has expressed an interest in some form of 
|> >|> subsidy to any team that would take up residence in the state because the 
|> >|> AFL has led Tasmanians to believe that relocation would be the only way
|> >|> to get a team.
|> 
|> >The only way a team is going to thrive interstate is if it can attract a
|> >large and loyal following, no matter how much money is injected into the
|> >coffers initially.  I'm not sure that Tassie could offer enough support
|> >to keep a national-league team going.  I mean, how many Tasmanians are
|> >there?
|> 
|> About 450,000. There would definitley be more support in Hobart than there is 
|> currently for Sydney and Brisbane. The Fitzroy games against West Coast and 
|> Essendon only attracted about 9,000 and 11,000 people, but last year 13-14,000
|> saw 'em play Hawthorn and St Kilda. If a proper Hobart team was created there
|> could definitely be 25,000 a game. But whether a relocated Sydney would attract
|> such a strong following is a different matter. State of origin games are well
|> supported with 19,000 in 1990 and 14,000 (on a tuesday afternoon!!) in '91.
|> Whatever the support it would be much greater than the current pathetic support
|> Brisbane and Sydney get.
|> 
	No it wouldn't.  The fact is the Tasmanian crowd figures above 
	are already pathetic.  They are not going to improve,
	especially if things don't go so well.
	The average Swan's crowd over the decade would have to be
	close to 20000 (for two years they were well over this),
	only this year has it slipped below 10 000, and considering
	the way they played....
|> 
|> Despite the popularity of state of origin, the AFL seems to have decided that
|> Tasmania won't get a game next year. Instead they seem to think a game between 
|> NSW & Victoria will be more interesting!!!! (Maybe they're hoping for 
	a highest ever score)
	
	Yeah, like last time...  The NSW (Aust Rules) SOO have
	lost very few games over the past ten years,
	and defeated the (proper, not 2nd 18 like for Tas),
	Victorians at the SCG two years ago.  
	Because that team included (non-NSW) Swans players,
	it was allowed to be forgotten, or written off,
	but the best players were (nearly) all NSW -
	Danihers, Allison, Brownless, Longmire (8 goals),
	some Richmond guy (any Tiger supporter know who?)
	
|> 
|> Mark Turner.
|>   
	tom
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.australian
From: ptaylor@airfarce.Canada.Sun.COM 
Subject: Re: Eagle parade
Reply-To: ptaylor@airfarce.Canada.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 13:20:30 GMT


s1071828@giaec.cc.monash.edu.au (Matthew Long) writes:
> >Just a couple of points - their psyche doesn't need to be changed, they're
> >the best team in the league and also the premiers. I very much doubt that
> >they themselves feel like a 'bunch of wankers' and they certainly wouldn't
> >want to change the public perception of them over here in Perth (where it
> >matters). Besides, the League Cup has TRADITIONALLY been won by victorian
> >teams, so who gives a fuck if a few traditions are chucked out the window?
> >(certainly not me anyway)
> >Eagles - Premiers 1992,93,94...
>    Fuck up wanker, and take your hand off your tossil. Where were all you
>    Whining eagle supporters at the start of the year when you wrer near the
>    bottom? If the Eagles win the next two in a row they will be a good team,
>    until then, they are just a bunch of wankers who got the whole of W.A to
>    recruit from for 4 - 5 years, and still would not have won the flag if it
>    were not for Collingwood (my team) dopily losing and giving the Eagles the
>    double chance.

Methinks I hear violins & smell sour grapes................PKT
From: LIPSCOJA@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu (Andy Lipscomb)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.australian
Subject: Re: future of AFL
Date: 16 Oct 92 04:12:17 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.1992Oct16.041217.9135
Organization: Vanderbilt University
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.21

In <1992Oct15.232338.23327@trl.oz.au> mathers@sibelius.trl.oz.au writes:

> In article <1992Oct15.061832.26133@mel.dit.csiro.au>, mwr@koel.mel.dit.CSIRO.AU (Mark Rawling) writes:
> |> 
> |> How about having the Swans play home games in Sydney (mainly) , Darwin,
> |> Hobart and Canberra to give these other cities a go without any
> |> commitment for license fees, relocation, etc. The response would help
> |> determine future directions for the AFL, since no one else is going to
> |> give up home games on a regular enough basis, not to all these different
> |> cities anyway (cf Fitzroy -- Tasi).
> 
> I, for one, would love to see a NT team play, but I don't think NT could
> support a team.  A mostly black team would certainly have an interesting
> style of play, wouldn't you think?  At least it wouldn't lack pace.

Actually, it might be a better idea to have an NT team play in Alice Springs
than in Darwin, as it would then have the chance to draw supporters from the
Salisbury/Teatree Gully area (northern SA).


Andy Lipscomb
lipscoja@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu (Bitnet: lipscoja@vuctrvax)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.australian
From: ptaylor@airfarce.Canada.Sun.COM 
Subject: Swans & Spoons
Reply-To: ptaylor@airfarce.Canada.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 13:43:37 GMT

Is it not possible that the Swans didn't draw big crowds because they 
lost most of their games?

They haven't yet earned a strong supporter base because people want
to see the home side win.  Once they have had winning seasons (note
the plural, please) Sydnians will likely notice and fan support in 
bigger numbers can begin.

The league should not write off the experiment unless
(1)  money runs out, or
(2)  local support for a *winning* side does not materialize.

___________________________________________________________________________
Peter K. Taylor			|| phone: (416) 477 - 6745  ext. 2302
Sun Microsystems of Canada, Inc.|| fax:   (416) 477 - 9423
 (the best little subsidiary	|| email: ptaylor@airfarce.Canada.Sun.com
	you ever did see!)	||-----------------------------------------
Markham, ON, Can		||  		GO BLUE JAYS!
From: speednut@werple.apana.org.au (Mark Jose)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.australian
Subject: future of AFL
Date: 15 Oct 92 11:03:26 GMT
Organization: werple public-access UNIX, Melbourne
NNTP-Posting-Host: werple.apana.org.au

Original Message From: iane@ccadfa.cc.adfa.oz.au (Ian Ellis)
Original Subject: future of AFL
 
 
>It seems to me that the quickest, and most positive way in which this
>can be achieved is for some of the existing Melbourne based teams to be
>relocated. Given that the new teams have to be successfull frm day one,
>only those teams which can command large followings should be relocated.
 
Firstly let me say that this type of idea is not new. It has been
re-hashed by so many publications that it is becoming a bore. <Sorry, I
don't mean you :-) >  People should realise that the main reason for the
demise (or imminent thereof) of the Sydney Swans et al, is that they came
from a good supporter base to an artificial one.
 
In order to have a proper (and long lasting) competition, I would think it
is better to nurture the leagues in that area and give them financial aid
to expand and improve their competition. Then (after quite a few years),
start the ball rolling on creating a state-based club. Take for example
Sydney. Why not improve the base support by increasing the local leagues
and then when support is right, create draft provisions to allow players
to move to Sydney. Perhaps allow monetary or other incentives, but above
all allow people to move there knowingly and willingly.
 
 
>My proposal is therefore to relocate the following teams:
>
>Carlton      ---->      Canberra
 
Removing one of the richest and biggest clubs to an otherwise sporting
backwater. Would not work.
 
>Collingwood  ---->      Sydney  incorporating the Swans
 
Removing the biggest support base to a base with an average of 9000
supporter attendances during the '92 season. Would alienate a large number
of supporters.
 
>Hawthorn     ---->      Brisbane  incorporating the Bears
 
And what are you going to do with the Bears players? Surely you don't
expect a 50-50 swap with a team that has been the leading team for 2
decades now. This may increase the support in Brisbane.
 
>Fitzroy      ---->      Tasmania and add a number of
                        Victorian based Tasmanians to the squad
Impossible. Tasmania is not big enough to support a club viably. It also
adds even more costs to interstate clubs like Brisbane and Sydney. Would
Tasmania be able to get together the license fee?
 
All of the above are admirable suggestions but unfortunately will do
nothing to solve the present AFL problems. All the above moves would do is
alienate the respective supporter bases and possibly puch more people
towards forming a state-based club formula like the old VFL days.
 
The AFL must foster football in the states and territories and thereby
create the ground for a later move or (at the extreme) relocation into
that state or territory. This is the only way they will truly make the AFL
a country wide football league.
 
Cheers,
Mark.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.australian
From: u906789@bruny.cc.utas.edu.au (Mark Julian Turner)
Subject: Re: Sydney
Organization: University of Tasmania, Australia.
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 07:52:11 GMT

mathers@sibelius.trl.oz.au (Steven Mathers) writes:

>In article <AJP.13.719042251@buc.edu.au>, AJP@buc.edu.au (Alan Penhall) writes:
>|> Shift the Sydney (South Melbourne) Swans to Tasmania. Change the name of the 
>|> team to the Southern Swans and play their games in Hobart. I believe that
>|> the Tassie State Government has expressed an interest in some form of 
>|> subsidy to any team that would take up residence in the state because the 
>|> AFL has led Tasmanians to believe that relocation would be the only way
>|> to get a team.

>The only way a team is going to thrive interstate is if it can attract a
>large and loyal following, no matter how much money is injected into the
>coffers initially.  I'm not sure that Tassie could offer enough support
>to keep a national-league team going.  I mean, how many Tasmanians are
>there?

About 450,000. There would definitley be more support in Hobart than there is 
currently for Sydney and Brisbane. The Fitzroy games against West Coast and 
Essendon only attracted about 9,000 and 11,000 people, but last year 13-14,000
saw 'em play Hawthorn and St Kilda. If a proper Hobart team was created there
could definitely be 25,000 a game. But whether a relocated Sydney would attract
such a strong following is a different matter. State of origin games are well
supported with 19,000 in 1990 and 14,000 (on a tuesday afternoon!!) in '91.
Whatever the support it would be much greater than the current pathetic support
Brisbane and Sydney get.


Despite the popularity of state of origin, the AFL seems to have decided that
Tasmania won't get a game next year. Instead they seem to think a game between 
NSW & Victoria will be more interesting!!!! (Maybe they're hoping for a highest ever score)

Mark Turner.
  
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.australian
From: LIPSCOJA@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu (Andy Lipscomb)
Subject: Re: The AFL
Organization: Vanderbilt University 
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 03:16:57 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.21

In <u906789.719030178@bruny> u906789@bruny.cc.utas.edu.au writes:

> Changing the topic, apparently Carlton wants to play its away games at the SCG
> if Sydney folds. But surely Carlton's away games are other teams *home* games!
> How can a club tell other teams where to play their home games?!! Also if I was 
> a Blues fan in Melbourne i'd just be a tad pissed off with this idea, but since
> i'm not in Melbourne it just means more Carlton games live on the telly!

Also, are there any Blues fans in Adelaide/Brisbane/Perth?  I imagine they
would not be pleased with never having Carlton come to town...


Andy Lipscomb
lipscoja@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu (Bitnet: lipscoja@vuctrvax)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.australian
From: aen@cs.brown.edu (Ann Nicholson)
Subject: moving teams and a national competition
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 17:41:42 GMT

When I lived in Melbourne, I was a footy fan and I barracked
for Melbourne. To me this meant that every Saturday afternoon,
except when we had an away match against Geelong, or the
match was at VFL park (ie too far for my parents to want to drive
there), I went to the footy with my Mum and Dad and some collection
of siblings. To see our team play - we never went to a match that
the Ds werent playing in. The main reason I wasnt interested in a 
national competition was that it would mean I could no longer do that. 
Sitting at home in front of the TV, on a Friday night or Sunday arvo, 
just isnt the same. As I recall it, Victorian footy fans *were* very 
one-eyed and narrow in their loyalties. No-one thought about "the good
of the game", just about their own team. But the strength of the VFL
derived from that mass of devotion to one's team. If you move Victorian
teams out of Victoria, their fans arent going to like it, and may never
feel the same way about the game or the competition again. Maybe
the wider scope of the national competition will draw in more new fans,
and this will make up for it. The national comp is in existence and things
arent going to change back. But you can't stop people from preferring
the way things used to be.

Ann Nicholson

ps. Neil Balme? Why not a demon son like Stan Alves?

Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.australian