From: skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls)
Subject: Re: Screenshots: Results:
Organization: University of Mississippi, Dept. of Computer Science
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 04:33:29 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.233128.17479@usl.edu> das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A) writes:
>I saw Skip's WB shots.  I saw sme WB2 shots too.  The WB3 shots look better
>than the WB2 ones,IMO.  My machine is in 16 color mode, so that likely
>did grave injsut to Skip's 64 and 256 color gifs.  If he could diret me to
>a full screen MSDOS .gif viewer that could do this great - my machine is 
>capable, after all.

Try the program CSHOW, it handles a number of formats and allows you to
view them in most every mode supported by your VGA/SVGA board.  I don't
know where the shareware/freeware version is, but I would bet that it is
available on wuarchive or some of the other MSDOS archive sites.  I am
going out of town for a couple of weeks, but when I get back I can tell
you about the registered version if you haven't had any luck.

>The WB2 shots were low color enough.  Gack, how can you guys stand it?

I have to agree with you here, 4 colors is simply not enough at the
standard Amiga resolutions.  It is possible to run in 8 and 16 color
modes on all Amigas, but the speed is not always so great.  On my 
A3000 I used an 8 color WB, which gave an acceptable speed while also
allowing for a bit better color.

Under WB3, I usually run in 64 color mode as it is very quick, in fact
it seems to be as quick as the A3000 in 4 color mode.  The 256 color is
nice looking, but it loses a bit of the snappiness and is really overkill
for most of the things that I do.  In fact, 16 colors is usually more 
than enough, but I figure if I can use 64 with no problem, why not use it?

>REgarding the layouts - the WB seems rather simplistic, but agreeable.  The
>scrollbars aren't to my liking, still, I prefer the scroll buttons
>to be on top AND bottom.  The WB didn't seem as refined as Windows or esp.
>OS/2 WPS, but that's my opinion.  I liked Skip's inclusion of MY
>desktops in one of Skip's shots.  Cute. :)

As far as it being simplistic, that just depends on whose WB it is.  I
myself prefer a more conservative WB with solid colors or simple patterns
and usually no picture in the backdrop.  My icons are rather plain and
do not use many colors, but if you click on them, you'll see some rather
nice little "animations".  For example, the HD lights turn yellow when 
I click on the A4000 disk icons and the floppy lights turn yellow when 
I click on the floppy disk icons.  I've also modified many of them to 
move right and down on a click, giving a better 3D feel, IMHO.

As for scroll buttons, I prefer the little elevator that Open Look uses
over any other scroll button layout.  Until 2.0, the Amiga had buttons
at the top and bottom, but these were moved because it was felt that 
folks shouldn't have to move back and forth to scroll up and down.  I
haven't noticed this being any better or worse, but again neither of 
these layouts is to my liking.

I included your desktops in both Final Copy II (to show you how it looks
on a properly configured machine  :-) and with MultiView.  The great 
thing is that we finally have decent color sharing mechanisms so that
two pictures can coexist without crazy looking color changes.

As for refinement of the WB versus Windows or OS/2, I both agree with
you and disagree.  The standard icons in both Windows and OS/2 are much
nicer than those on the Amiga in 2.0 or 3.0.  Part of this lies in the
fact that both OS/2 and Windows are designed for 16 color 640x480 or 
higher while the Workbench is designed for 4 colors 640x200.  Most of
the Amiga icons look "squished" on my screen and I hate that they use
striped and dithered patterns everywhere.  I have cleaned up many of
these icons by using solid colors and proper aspect ratios, but I am
not a graphic artist and find this to be rather tedious.  Luckily, there
are replacement icon sets which are rather nice.  Also, I'm planning on
whipping up Windows2Amiga and Amiga2Windows icon converters so that 
Amiga owners will be able to trade with Windows owners...

>From the shots, I'd have to use it for an appreaciable amount of time in at
>least 16 colors to pronounce it 'awful' again.

It's by no means perfect, but WB 2.x and 3.x are so much better than what
we had in 1.3 that most Amiga owners are very happy with it.  I myself
prefer it to Windows at work, but part of that is that Windows "feels"
clunky to me.  My friend just bought OS/2 and will have it installed 
after I return from xmas break, so I'll be able to use it more then and
be able to form a better opinion.  I've also decided to get my boss to
allow me to install it at work and use it instead of DOS.

>So, Skip, how'd you like MY captures??

Okay, here are my thoughts base on the pictures:

3D'ness
   
OS/2 and Workbench 3.0 both have similar 3D effects.  I've written my own
set of GUI routines for MSDOS and can tell anyone who is interested that
the 3D effect is nothing more than a bright color, a dark color, and one
or two shades in between.  With more shades, you can get a better effect,
much as what MS does in Windows, it just depends on how you draw the lines.

Window Borders

I prefer the 3D style borders that the Workbench uses, but I wish that it
had the grabbable/draggable borders that Windows and OS/2 did.  The resize
gadget on the Workbench is okay, but very inconvenient if you want to 
stretch the window up or left when the window is in the lower right portion
of the screen.

Gadget Style

While the Amiga's gadgets are familiar to me, I agree that they are not
exactly intuitive.  OS/2's gadgets are much better than Windows, but not
as nice as some of the X widgets that I've used.

Gadget Usage

Both are actually very similar, but I wish the Amiga supported window
iconification instead of shrinking.  The shrunken windows are really
very ugly and I find them mostly useless.  However, I do like the 
front/back gadget on the Amiga as it is consistent with the way that
the screens work.

Fonts

No real difference here except that the Amiga does not support italic
or bold fonts in the GUI like OS/2 seems to.  Neither system has fonts
as nice as those on the Mac.

Icons

As I said earlier, Windows and OS/2 win hands down here.

Menubars

I much prefer the single menubar that the Workbench uses over the meubar
within a window approach in OS/2 and Windows.  I also prefer windows
which only stay down when the mouse button is pressed versus those which
stay down until the mouse is clicked again.

Pointer

The Amiga's sprite pointer, especially the hires one in WB 3.0, is nicer 
than the bitmap sprite on OS/2 and Windows.  

Color

OS/2 is much more reserved looking than Windows and I like this style.
The Workbench is a bit too plain and could stand to be a bit snazzier.
Neither system is as nice as NeXTStep and some of the X GUIs.

Size

OS/2 in the 640x480 mode is rather cramped, as is Windows.  By contrast,
the Workbench feels very "roomy" on a similarly sized screen.  Again, I
attribute this to the fact that the Workbench is designed for much smaller
screens and is better at lower resolutions.  When I get my multiscan, I'll
compare all three in 800x600 to see how they perform.  That is, if I can
stand the flicker on the Amiga...  :-)


I'm certain that there are other categories which would be useful in a
comparison, but the ones above are visually oriented and make up much of
how a system "feels".  I cannot say that I really like Dan's OS/2 pics
over my Workbench, however I do like them better than any Windows desktop
that I have ever used or seen.  When I get OS/2 for my work machine, I'll
customize it to suit my preferences and then make a judgement.

All in all, I believe that this thread could turn out to be one of the
most useful in quite some time on this newsgroup.  I just regret that
I am leaving on Wednesday for the xmas break and will not be here for
the followups.  Anyone want to postpone it until the first or second
week of January?  :-)

>-Dan

>Dan Stephenson                                              das9674@usl.edu  
>"There once was a Lady from Hyde/who ate some bad apples and died/but while
>we lamented/the apples fermented/making cider inside her inside!" 
>                        -Member of the Court, Texas Renaissance Festival  

Merry Xmas all, see you January 3rd!  :-)

Skip Sauls, Amiga Advocate
skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu

Xref: sparky comp.sys.amiga.advocacy:31842 comp.sys.amiga.misc:18876