HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: farthing@leland.Stanford.EDU (ljf)
Subject: Re: Mattel and math avoidance in girls
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 10:04:17 GMT

This appeared in the SF Chronicle (no by-line, from the Washington
Post): (I've deleted some.)

Now Teen Talk Barbie, introduced in July by Mattel Inc., is chattering
away in playrooms across the country, and this is what she has waited
so long to say: "Math class is tough."

"It's a subtle form of brainwashing," said Nancy Metx, a math teacher
in Gaithersburg, Md.  "It's a very young person hearing that, and
that's not what we want young women to hear."

The National Council of Teachers of Mathematics, a Reston, Va. based
organization with more than 92,000 members, drafted a letter to Mattel
yesterday warning of the "negative impact" of Barbie's lament.

"Oh, my God, no, no, no, no," said Paul Thomas, a math teacher in
Fairfax County, Va., when told of Barbie's fear of fractions.  "I'll
bet that they don't have Ken saying that.  (They don't.)  This is the
sort of thing that perpetuates the myth that girls find math harder
than boys do."

Mattel spokeswoman Lisa McKendall said Barbie stands innocent of the
charges against her.  She said that the doll makes many positive
statements, such as, "I'm studying to be a doctor."  Other sayings
include, "We should start a business" and "Computers make homework
fun"--sentiments that McKendall said, "require you to be proficient
in math."

"They're all reflective of what little girls are interested in," she
said, citing interviews and test marketing involving thousands of
children.  "Some of the kids said that math can be tough.  If they had
said English can be tough, we would have put that in, too."

----------End------------

It obviously isn't taken too seriously, though, for notice the cutesy
phrasing, "Barbie's fear of fractions," etc.
From: brad@optilink.UUCP (Brad Yearwood)
Newsgroups: soc.women
Subject: Re: Female "Wiring"
Date: 4 Oct 92 02:29:05 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <137866@lll-winken.LLNL.GOV>, lisa@zeppelin.llnl.gov (Lisa Corsetti) writes:
# In article <1992Oct2.101604.10769@leland.Stanford.EDU> farthing@leland.Stanford.EDU (ljf) writes:
# >In article <137606@lll-winken.LLNL.GOV> lisa@zeppelin.llnl.gov (Lisa Corsetti) writes:
# >>In article <1992Sep29.155335.2585@mdcbbs.com> rivero@mdcbbs.com (Michael Rivero) writes:
# >>> 
# >>> Actually, a woman's eyelids become suffused with blood after a good orgasm.
# >>>That's what eye shadow tries to simulate.
# >>
# >>This is the most *utterly* *ridiculous* thing I've seen posted here
# >>today!  
# >
# >I thought it was funny.  I wonder how many people checked out their
# >eyelids after having an orgasm.
# >
# >I'm still trying to figure out what a bad orgasm is...
# 
# Worse yet, I wonder how many male readers believed the original
# post.  :) :) :)
# 
# Please note the three smiley's above.

I did note them.  The eyes look kinda non-suffused.  They must be thinking
of England.  Or the beigeness of the ceiling.

Brad Yearwood    brad@optilink.com  {uunet, pyramid}!optilink!brad
Petaluma, CA
Newsgroups: soc.women,talk.abortion
From: chall@eco.twg.com (Charles Don Hall)
Subject: Re: ABSOLUTELY NEW REMEDY FOR CONTRACEPTION IS OFFERED !!
Organization: The Wollongong Group (East Coast Operations)
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 92 17:58:51 GMT

In <92276.201021KEL111@psuvm.psu.edu> KEL111@psuvm.psu.edu (Kurt Ludwick) writes:

>In article <ABtgiogWZ1@sasco.georgia.su>, andro@sasco.georgia.su (Andrew
>Gachechiladze) says:

>>   It is biologically clean remedy. There is no sexual hormones in
>> its composition and generally is produced without any chemical
>> preparation.
>>   A woman can use this remedy without consultation and interference
>> of a physician. It is very simple and convenient in use and the main
>> thing is that it doesn't cause any side effects on woman's organizm.
>> Please, pay attention on this fact. It is multi use with
>>                       99,9 % GUARANTEE !!

>Hey, I've heard of it!  It's called ABSTINENCE!

No, it couldn't be abstinence...he says that it "doesn't cause any
side effects." Abstinence has been linked to a variety of problems:
Feelings of frustration, depression, an inability to concentrate (the
major cause of industrial accidents), and sometimes to high levels 
of stress (a leading cause of heart disease).  The practice of this 
technique is also discouraged for married couples, and is in fact grounds
for divorce in many states. 

It has also been observed that people who practice abstinence are,
on the average, less attractive than people who have sex frequently.
[CAVEAT: It has not yet been proven that frequent sex actually causes
people to become more attractive; however, I feel secure that 
future studies will demonstrate a direct causal link.]

I suppose abstinence works well enough for some people, but it should not
be treated as a universal solution.

That being the case, I don't know what Mr. Gachechiladze is talking
about. If he really has something that is cheaper, safer, and more
convenient then conventional birth control, then I don't want to
know what it is. I don't want the powers-that-be to "remove" me,
the way they "removed" the people that knew how to build the 
200mpg carberator.

>(Sorry. I AM sorry.  I couldn't help it.  I lost control of my fingers.
> Please don't hurt me....  >:-)

I forgive you. Just be more careful about jumping to conclusions
in the future.

>------------
>Kurt Ludwick
>------------
-- 

===========================================================
Charles Don Hall, Licensed Philosopher  (chall@eco.twg.com)
===========================================================
Newsgroups: soc.women,alt.abortion.inequity,soc.men
From: bhv@areaplg2.corp.mot.com (Bronis Vidugiris)
Subject: Re: The Politics Of Appeasement
Organization: Motorola, CCR&D, CORP, Schaumburg, IL
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 18:35:25 GMT

In article <1992Sep29.162829.7592@news.nd.edu> slarsen@titian.helios.nd.edu (susan larsen) writes:
)
)Mmmmm.  I was under the impression that the politics of a democratic 
)society involved appeasing the majority.  Last I heard, women comprised
)the majority of the population.  Can the majority rightfully be described 
)as a special interest group?  Nope, don't think so.
)
)Sue Larsen
)slarsen@berlin.helios.nd.edu

Well, in realpolitik(tm), men aren't a minority group (we don't get AA for
example) even though we are technically a minority, whereas women ARE a
'minority group' and do get AA.   So I suppose that if women can be a
minority group when they compose 52% of the population, they can also be a
special interest group!

half a :-)
From: mmrwlm@sn096.uca (Wanda L McCrae)
Newsgroups: soc.women
Subject: Re: questions about abortion issue
Date: 29 Sep 92 16:10:52 GMT
Reply-To: mmrwlm@sn096.uca
Organization: General Electric

In article p8cn@lynx.unm.edu, sdavey@triton.unm.edu (Sean Davey) writes:
->The problem with this issue is that there are two people's rights involved--
->the unborn child and the mother.  Since it would be impossible for a law
->in this country's legal system to protect the rights of both people it
->is should not IMO be a matter for the law.

I agree totally.  I don't know how the issue of abortion became
a legal issue, but I think it should be left in the hands of the
individual seeking abortions and the doctors who wish to perform
them.  The methods doctors use to perform abortions are, IMO, safe
technics that can be applied to more than just aborting an unborn
fetus.  If the doctor chooses to use these technics for the purpose
of aborting a fetus, it is her/his and the patient's decision.

I wonder why the powers that be don't realize it is a personal
issue and just leave the entire matter alone.  It is not a decision for the
nation or the state or the city/town to make; it is a decision the woman has
to make and deal with in her life.  I would not want the government
telling me when I am allowed to conceive, why would I want to be told
when I can/cannot end a pregnancy?

---
__________________________________________________________________
Wanda L. McCrae            | "If you didn't want to go through the
mmrwlm@sn370.utica.ge.com  |  harvest, you shouldn't have let that
                              farmer plant your crop!"
                                 - Ob/Gyn to Murphy Brown
Xref: sparky soc.women:17365 soc.men:17326
Newsgroups: soc.women,soc.men
Subject: Re: Female "Wiring"
From: rivero@mdcbbs.com
Date: 5 Oct 92 10:14:08 GMT
 <1992Oct2.101604.10769@leland.Stanford.EDU> <1992Oct2.133359.646@news.nd.edu>
Organization: Electronic Data Systems, Unigraphics Division, Cypress CA
Nntp-Posting-User: rivero

In article <1992Oct2.133359.646@news.nd.edu>, slarsen@berlin.helios.nd.edu (susan larsen) writes:
> In article <1992Oct2.101604.10769@leland.Stanford.EDU> farthing@leland.Stanford.EDU (ljf) writes:
>>In article <137606@lll-winken.LLNL.GOV> lisa@zeppelin.llnl.gov (Lisa Corsetti) writes:
>>>In article <1992Sep29.155335.2585@mdcbbs.com> rivero@mdcbbs.com (Michael Rivero) writes:
>>>>
>>>>  Actually, a woman's eyelids become suffused with blood after a good orgasm.
>>>>That's what eye shadow tries to simulate.
>>>
>>>This is the most *utterly* *ridiculous* thing I've seen posted here
>>>today!  Although the post about withholding sex because the male desires
>>>it is a close second.
>>
>>I thought it was funny.  I wonder how many people checked out their
>>eyelids after having an orgasm.
>>
>>I'm still trying to figure out what a bad orgasm is...
>>
> 
> I know! I know!  When you crack your skull on the headboard 
> while thrashing about.  Then your head gets suffused with blood.
> 


  Remember when "Safe Sex" meant having a padded headboard?  :)



<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
|  Michael Rivero rivero@mdcbbs.com  "Middle-aged Mutant Ninja Animator" |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
|   "I want my name in the press.  Why? Because I can make a lot         |
|    of money! I figure if I'm going through all this pain and           |
|                   suffering, I'm getting a Ferrari!"                   |
|                                                                        |
|     Amy Fisher, just prior to her plea bargain for attempted murder.   |
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
From: slarsen@berlin.helios.nd.edu (susan larsen)
Newsgroups: soc.women
Subject: Re: Mattel and math avoidance in girls
Date: 2 Oct 92 13:26:52 GMT
Organization: OUC, University of Notre Dame

In article <Oct.2.01.03.08.1992.9541@remus.rutgers.edu> clong@remus.rutgers.edu (Chris Long) writes:
>In article <1992Oct1.192100.10598@news.nd.edu>, Susan Larsen writes:
>
>...
>> My daughter, her friends, and her cousins are all crackerjacks in 
>> math.
>
>If it's too easy for them, that's really bad.  You should try to see
>if they could get supplemental learning (I was learning topology when
>I was twelve) to keep them challenged.  I'm working with my old high
>school along similar lines, and I've come to the conclusion that one
>of the best things would be a subscription to some type of publication.
>For example, a bright young person might really enjoy some parts of
>_College Math Journal_, _Mathematics Magazine_, or _Pi Mu Epsilon_.
>Your daughter is probably too young to read them on her own, but you
>should be able to dig some good ideas out for her to play with.

Thanks, Chris, for the excellent suggestion.  

Sue Larsen
slarsen@berlin.helios.nd.edu
Newsgroups: soc.women,alt.discrimination
From: thughes@ug.cs.dal.ca (Tracy L. Hughes)
Subject: Re: Biological Sex Differences? ("Women only" excusable ?)
Organization: Math, Stats & CS, Dalhousie University, Halifax, NS, Canada
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 16:55:49 GMT

     Actually I have read (in some scientific journal or another) that the
gene for good math ability (or at least one of the major factors in good math
ability) is carried on the X-chromosome.  Thus all male children inherit
their math ability from their mothers while all female children can inherit
this from either their mothers or their fathers.  The only problem with
this is that this gene may be recessive...which means females may need a 
matching pair.  If it is not recessive, however, it may just be that, outside
of sociological conditioning, the average ability of females in math may be
higher than that of males.

     The problem with a study in any such area is there is no way to have
a control group.  It is a fact that females are brought up differently than
males.  We do not know just how much sociological conditioning matters but
it does matter a great extent.  One study, done to prove that black children
were not genetically less intelligent than whites, showed that if you take a
child with a low IQ out of a bad (i.e. learning discouraged) environment and
put it into a good one, it can make a 20-50 point difference in their IQ. That
is a very big difference.  So it follows that all differences between males
and females in math ability may be sociological rather than genetic.  We won't
know for many years, until women and men are no longer treated differently, or
at least until there is no sociological factor that may discourage women in
math while encouraging men...and this very debate is one such factor.
And, since we can't do a controlled experiment in the matter, I guess we will
have to wait.

T.L.Hughes
(Standard Disclaimers Apply)

Xref: sparky soc.women:17341 soc.men:17284
From: rh@smds.com (Richard Harter)
Newsgroups: soc.women,soc.men
Subject: Re: The Politics Of Appeasement
Date: 3 Oct 92 05:42:54 GMT
Reply-To: rh@ishmael.UUCP (Richard Harter)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Software Maintenance & Development Systems, Inc.

In article <1OCT199219120644@mary.fordham.edu> nissim@mary.fordham.edu (Leonard J. Nissim) writes:
>slarsen@titian.helios.nd.edu (susan larsen) writes...

>>At any rate, this all reminds me of a quote I heard, wish I could remember 
>>the source and can only paraphrase at best:  Democracy will never work.  
>>Once the public realizes they can raid the government treasuries by vote, 
>>the democratic government is destined to fail.

>Whether it is original with him or not I don't know, but this quote is 
>from "Glory Road", a science fiction novel by (the late) Robert Heinlein...

Heinlein was paraphrasing Aristotle.


-- 
Richard Harter: SMDS Inc.  Net address: rh@smds.com Phone: 508-369-7398 
US Mail: SMDS Inc., PO Box 555, Concord MA 01742.    Fax: 508-369-8272
In the fields of Hell where the grass grows high
Are the graves of dreams allowed to die.
Newsgroups: soc.women
From: boserj@netcom.com (Jeffrey Boser)
Subject: Re: Mattel and math avoidance in girls
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 20:15:27 GMT

lisa@zeppelin.llnl.gov (Lisa Corsetti) writes:
>dwelch@mpd.tandem.com (Dan Welch) writes:
>>Also, math class *is* hard, for the majority of students.  I never had
>>problems with it, but I know lots of people who had trouble with even
>>basic algebra.  I don't think that I would want my children playing with
>>toys that totally ignore the reality of the world.
>
>In my opinion, and in the opinion of psychological experts, negative
>thought patterns *are* *very* *harmful*.  The idea of a company that
>markets a toy which promotes negative thought patterns really gets
>me upset!  With so many of us trying to encourage young females to
>get involved in technical fields, the Barbie that says math class is
>hard counteracts our work.  I called the number to get my complaint
>logged.
>
>                                                    Lisa

In my college Psych class, we had to help a grad student by filling
out this questionaire, and in it there were all sorts of questions
like:
	Are girls smarter in some things than boys?
	Are boys smarter in some things than girls?
	Are some people smarter than others, generally?

I guess I got a bit miffed, and answered everything false.  I wanted
to answer the right questions, namely, what tools, what ways of thinking
affect how we deal with some subjects?  negative thought patterns are
the cause of a *huge* amount of bad grades.  Man or woman, go in with
an 'i can do it, and if i cant, i can find out how!' attitude and
things just seem to happen, go in with a 'oh i dont know if i can do
this' and they dont.  I mean, if you go in expecting to fail, you
probably will.

I would tutor women and men both in college level physics, and after about
2 hours spent going through problems, I would invariably get frustrated
with this 'i cant do it' problem..  so I would go take a tennis ball,
or something, and start *showing* them how to think about it.  How to
get some of the fascination with the ideas..  and some of the interesting
ideas like relativity and rotation..  just made it fun.  And then come
back to it, half hour later, and they start slapping their heads and
wondering why they never got it before.

Science, math, in fact almost anything we read about or study, is
just a way of thinking about things.  If you start thinking that you
cant do something, you wont.  <smirk>  Ive noticed that some of the
most brilliant people are so *damn* arrogant about their field,
they seem to think that there is *nothing* they cant do, and it turns
out they are usually right.  Maybe the two got something to do with
each other, eh?

....jeff
Newsgroups: soc.women
Subject: Re: You and Me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
From: rivero@mdcbbs.com
Date: 29 Sep 92 10:54:34 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Electronic Data Systems, Unigraphics Division, Cypress CA
Nntp-Posting-User: rivero

In article <1992Sep29.014101.12554@cis.ohio-state.edu>, angrish@hickory.cis.ohio-state.edu (yogesh angrish) writes:
> In article <1992Sep28.165054.9146@cbnewsm.cb.att.com> sdp@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (sunil.d.patil) writes:
>>
>>To all those beautiful, loving and compassionate girls,
>>
>>LOVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>
>>
>>Sunil.
>>
>>Devilish minded and satanic headeds need not add
>>anything to these lovely thoughts.
> 
> 
> YOU MAKE ME MAD........
> GET A LIFE YOU JERK....OR POST THIS BULLSHIT IN SOME OTHER NEWSGROUP.
> 
-- 

  The habitable surface of the Earth is some 60,000,000 square miles. That's
room enough for all kinds of people. At least let's give the guy credit for
trying to do something positive!


<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
|  Michael Rivero        rivero@dev8j.mdcbbs.com     "A Human's Human!"  |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
|                       I CAME,  I SAW,  I DIVORCED                      |
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Newsgroups: soc.women
From: Will Steeves <goid@zooid.guild.org>
Subject: Re: Women are inferior
X-To: VICKY HANSEN
Organization: The Zoo of Ids
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1992 01:22:00 GMT

sam@hpsad.sad.hp.com (Vicky Hansen) writes...
VH> In soc.women, karypis@epx.cis.umn.edu () writes:
VH> >>  It is true...  Women were not created equal.  They are clearly inferior
VH> >>  to men....
VH> I will make the rash assumption that you are male.
VH> Then I will stoop to your level and answer:
VH>     Isn't it just like a man to make a blanket statement with absolutely
VH>     no details or supporting evidence.


That statement isn't any better than what that idiot, Karypis, said!

I'll bet that he *wants* people to stoop to his level and for you to say the
kinds of opposite-gender bashing statements that *he* has been saying.

Besides which, if he *does* get enough women angry at him, that will only
serve to give him some sort of perverse "justification" for his misogynist
views.  Hardly what you'd want to do, is it?


VH> Women and men are probably more different than our current society strives
VH> for but neither is inferior as a group.

I never doubted that you believed this, but still, stooping to his level will
cause nothing but trouble, IMHO.

---
Will Steeves, goid@zooid.guild.org                      "Neil Hull is GOiD"
ZOOiD BBS, Toronto, Ontario - The Zoo Of Ids            "GOiDS Rule"
(416) 322-7876
---
 * SLMR 2.1a * It ain't over till Milli Vanilli sings...
Newsgroups: soc.women,soc.men
From: garvin+@cs.cmu.edu (Susan Garvin)
Subject: Re: The Politics Of Appeasement
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 03:37:42 GMT



I'll have to call the American Cancer Society again and get 
the survival rates for the various cancers.  I believe
that the survival rate for prostate cancer is much higher
than that for breast cancer, but I may be mistaken, since
I'm going by memory here.  I do remember that the incidence
of prostate cancer is very high - I don't remember any
1 in X number of men stat, but it was much higher than
I had thought.  (Mandatory cancer survivor statement:
Get checkups.  Know the warning signs.)

I'll also point out that I'm not the only one that can
call the ACS and receive lots of free information about
the disease.  


I'm still waiting for the original poster to say just where
he wanted NASA to launch from if not Florida.

Susan
Xref: sparky soc.women:17381 alt.feminism:2071
From: dlm@galileo.ifa.hawaii.edu (Deborah Maraziti (aka Spacee))
Newsgroups: soc.women,alt.feminism
Subject: Re: Mattel and math avoidance in girls
Date: 5 Oct 92 23:10:26 GMT
Organization: Institute for Astronomy, Hawaii

In article <1992Oct2.224430.6183@speedy.aero.org> nadel@attatash.aero.org (Miriam Nadel) writes:
>>In article <1992Sep29.203919.2777@zip.eecs.umich.edu> charles@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Charles Jacob Cohen) writes:
>>
>>	According to the Wall Street Journal this morning, Mattel is selling
>>	a product called "Teen Talk Barbie" which says 4 phrases.  One of the 
>>	phrases is "Math class is hard".
>>
>
>One minor clarification (that still doesn't make it okay).  My understanding
>is that each individual doll says 4 phrases but that there are actually about
>100 different phrases used.  I assume you only have a 1 in 25 chance of getting
>Math Phobic Barbie.  Mattel is justifying themselves by noting that another 

The Mattel representative speaking to me also said that each doll has four
phrases.  Seems like math _must_ be tough in that company as I was told
there is only a 1% chance that a given doll would say 
"Math class is hard!"  Hmm:  4/100=1%????

Debbie


--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Spacee                            ~     I'm conducting a search for a
dlm@galileo.ifa.hawaii.edu        ~     planet made of chocolate.
(astronomer in lace)              ~     Funding is hard to come by...