From: bowers@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Al Bowers)
Subject: Re: Sunfish, Sailfish, Lasers
Organization: NASA Dryden, Edwards, Cal.
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 19:28:28 GMT

In article <724174180.AA00015@ship.wimsey.bc.ca> Gunther.Yip@f764.n153.z1.ship.wimsey.bc.ca (Gunther Yip) writes:

>JFH>Of course, if you want to trap out alone, the boat to do it in is
>JFH>the Contender. (Or perhaps, if you're feeling a little loony, a
>JFH>Tornado---this
>JFH>is how I usually sail mine). I was once offered a chance to sail a
>JFH>Contender,

>What's a Contender?  And how a bout some specifics. i.e. length,
>rigging, sail area....

The Contender was designed by Australian Bob Miller (aka Ben Lexcen)
in 1968 to an IYRU spec for a replacement to the venerable Finn in the
Olympics.  The two boats most likely to win were the Contender and the
Dutch Trapez (designed by the hard old man hisself, Paul Elvstrom).
The Contender won.  It is a 16 foot loa, 240 pound all up rigged, 120
sq ft sail area, 4 foot 8 inch beam una rigged boat.  They have stayed
masts and usually spreaders or diamonds for mast support.
Unfortunately, just because the IYRU decides something doesn't mean
the IOC will do it...

>AB>The Laser << is a much more tender design, not as hard a chine and a
>AB>narrower beam (also considerably shorter).  The Tasar is the only boat
>AB>I am aware of in production that can plane upwind (to advantage)
>AB>without a trapeze.  Also the lack of a trap or a spinaker is a plus in
>AB>that it is less intimidating for smaller crew (like wives,
>AB>girlfriends, sons, daughters, etc).  Trying to get a neophyte out on
>AB>the wire and trimming a 'chute can be very intimidating.

>The wire and chute are there if you want it.  You don't have to use them
>if you're taking out novices.  If you intend to race one would assume
>one would practice with these items thus your crew would gain confidence
>in their use.

>Better find other crew if you can't get them out on a wire :)

Actually, in my case I'd have to find a new skipper.  Putting a 120
pound crew on the wire is pretty counter-productive is the skipper
weighs 160, no?  So ideally, you'd want a boat where either both crew
trapped, or neither did.  In the former case you get I 14s or OD 14s,
in the latter, you get the Tasar or the new Vanguard 15.

But the point remains that the Tasar has a high degree of rig
refinement that will not be found many other places on the North
American continent, and perhaps not worlwide for a One Design boat.

>AB>Good, but I'll take the Tasar.  If I wanna trap-out, I'll get the
>AB>Hobie out where _both_ of us can trap-out together.  And it doesn't
>AB>hurt that my wife and I are at the optimum weight for both classes
>AB>(the minimum weight is the best, 285 lbs for the Hobie and 287 for the
>AB>Tasar).

>Ever try getting out on a wire on a hobie when its blowing 20-25 knots
>with white caps?  Hobies are for speed freeks, I enjoy sailing them with
>competent crew.  But I've been dragged behind one and I have also
>pendulumed forward underneath my crew.  Harrowing to say the least.  

You just don't know what fun is.  :-) Yes, I sail in winds upto about
30 knots (gusts over 35 start to get to me).  And I have spent some
time swimming near my Hobie too.  you either get to be a good sailor
or a good swimmer in those conditions.

>But
>you can't pitchpole a monohull at least I haven't done in one yet ;)  If
>I wanna go fast I'll sail the Hobie.  I want to work on my sailing
>skills I'll go after a monohull.  Not to put down the Hobie skipper.

Are sailing skills somewhow not required on cats?  I never noticed
before...

>CR>The Laser << I think was a good idea which didn't get executed properly,
>CR>a (reasonably) cheap one design trapeze boat, but why did they have to
>CR>stick so closely to the orignal Laser design and build in some of it's
>CR>faults when with a bit more effort the whole boat could have been made
>CR>better to sail by giving it a decent cockpit, better controls etc. I'll
>CR>admit my prejudice is showing through because I think the best two-man
>CR>trapeze boat is the 505.

>Hands down, the only monohull to sail is a 505 :)

Or maybe an FD.  But why stop at one trap?  Why not two on an I 14?
Or three on an Aussie 18 Foot Skiff?

>CR>doing a lot of swimming. In contrast the Laser is much harder work
>CR>particularly upwind but if I only sail it once every 4 weeks at least I
>CR>can sail it and not spend a lot of time swimming.

>Being a cat rigged boat, the Laser doesn't point very well at all.  Well
>you get just as wet from the spray when sailing the Laser :)

Theoretically, a una rigged boat should point higher and go faster.
Note that the C class catamaran guys decided a long time ago that to
be close winded you had to get rid of the jib (currently they tack
through about 45-50 degrees).  25 degrees off the wind isn't too bad
for a una rigged boat.

And the Laser is an excellent boat, for many things.  Its true beauty
is in its ultimate simplicity.  And they go upwind very well, if you
know how.

--
Al Bowers                       bowers@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov
NASA F-18 High Alpha Research Vehicle, Lead Aero
NASA, Dryden Flight Research Facility, Edwards, California
Newsgroups: rec.boats