HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: muehlhau@en.ecn.purdue.edu (John Muehlhausen)
Subject: Why must you act this way?
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Distribution: world,public
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 93 07:12:54 GMT

In article <1993Jan3.082328.11776@phyrql.Alt.ZA> lucio@proxima.Alt.ZA writes:

>>Lets clear something up - all things work together for good FOR THOSE WHO
>>LOVE THE LORD.  If my daughter was in this circumstance, she would be in
>>physical pain, but she would be secure in the knowledge of her eternal life
>>through Christ, and though I would also be in much pain - probably more than
>>her - God would use it to strengthen my character.  Who are we to argue with
>>God?
>
>Where was your god when a four-year old girl, who would hardly be able
>to tell the difference, was suffering?  

Right by her side.  Death is a result of sin, and happens from time to time
and for various reasons in our fallen world.  It has no detrimental significance
for the children of God, however.  I look forward to meeting my Creator and
knowing Him even as I am fully known by Him.  You may ask "Why doesn't God
intervene and end the suffering of this girl?"  He will (and does) both
miraculously and through modern medicine if it is His will for her to live.
If it is His will to let a young girl die, then it is for the greater good of
all those involved that love Him.  I don't see why you are mad at me - I
didn't make it up, nor can I do a good job defending the One who calls the
shots.  I suggest you seek Him for your answers.  Read James 1.

>Ch-rist, even my Roman Catholic
>priests would not be so arrogant!  John, I dislike your type intensely,
>less arrogance drove me from the RC church and eventually from
>Christianity.  And I've learnt in the process that your ilk deserves no
>more than be squashed at the slightest opportunity, which I do with glee.
>
>Now get your ass out of alt.atheism fast, before I find out more about
>you and your family.

My ass, as you would put it, found itself attached to a thread which was
cross-posted.  Why would I care if you knew about my family?  I can send you
some cute pictures if you want!  :-)

>>John M.
>-- 
>Lucio de Re (lucio@phyrql.Alt.ZA)
>The supernatural does not exist, but it gives me the creeps...

John M.
Newsgroups: alt.atheism,talk.religion.misc,alt.pagan
From: bermes@cbnewsc.cb.att.com (Terry Bermes)
Subject: Re: Madeleine Murray O'Hare
Organization: AT&T Looney Bin
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 21:46:54 GMT

From article <root.726418525@spssig>, by adams@spss.com (Steve Adams):
> analogous to refusing church buses the right to use the roads, since they 
> are government funded.  Or refusing churches police and fire protection.

	More fodder for the the "Tax the Church" discussion?  Why should
these groups get these services for free?

terry
From: cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Bible translations, or Does God Speak Latin?
Keywords: Catholic, Latin, Bible
Date: 4 Jan 93 22:27:02 GMT
Organization: University of California, Irvine

In my theology classes in catholic school, the priests teaching always
came right out and said that using Latin only served a unifying function
for the church in the face of diversity; no matter where you came from,
you could walk into a church a zillion miles away and hear THE SAME
SERVICE.  I've never had cause to doubt this justification.

Blessings,
Janis 
Newsgroups: alt.atheism,talk.religion.misc
From: jbates@encore.com (John W. Bates)
Subject: Re: THE MIND OF THE BIBLE BELIEVER
Organization: Encore Computer Corporation
Distribution: world,public
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 00:57:00 GMT
	<1993Jan6.190706.20382@dcs.warwick.ac.uk>
	<1993Jan7.000554.5134@ra.royalroads.ca>
	<1993Jan7.213626.1394@dcs.warwick.ac.uk>
	<1993Jan8.210120.16162@ra.royalroads.ca>

In article <1993Jan8.210120.16162@ra.royalroads.ca> mlee@post.RoyalRoads.ca (Malcolm Lee) writes:

>Reason cannot explain everything.  I am safe in saying that Mankind does not
>know everything and has not been able to reason everything out.  What are the
>reasons for emotions?  I know for sure what I have experienced.  I have felt
>God's touch and I've glimpsed what visions He would have me see.  These things
>are not so easily explained but they are nonetheless, real.  I've never taken
>drugs and I haven't touched a drop of alcohol for the 6 years since becoming
>a Christian, so my experiences were not delusions.  I've stood up in public
>proclaiming the good news of the Word of God.  This is something I would not
>have been capable of before.  Where does this power come from?  

	I'd like to share with you a little story, Malcolm.

	When I was a little boy, I was scared to death of speaking in front
of people. My knees would go weak, my arms would shake, and when I opened
my mouth, nothing would come out.

	One day, I was to recite a poem before my class. As usual, the 
night before, I was jittery. I knew that I couldn't do it. When my father
tucked me into bed, he said, "John, I have something for you."

	Being a greedy little four year old, of course I asked, "What?"

	"A magic penny," he said. "Santa Claus gave me this penny to
give to you."

	"Magic?" I asked, my eyes round. "What does it do?"

	"Well, it gives you the power to not be afraid. When you've got
this penny, you won't be afraid to stand up and speak your mind."

	And with that, he slipped the penny into the pocket of my pants.

	The next day, I was much more excited than nervous. I didn't
have anything to be afraid of, since I had that magic penny. During 
recess, I took it out and looked at it, wondering at the feelings of
power and courage just oozing from the copper.

	I recited the poem that day, without making any mistakes at all.
I didn't even stutter or shake.

	But when I sat down and stuck my hand in my pocket, it was empty.
I'd left my magic penny out on the playground.

>  I tell you, it is the power of God's Spirit.

	You've got more power than you think. Your magic penny is God.

#endif /* stupid parable */

	Ptuuey! I've got to wash the sickly sweet taste out of my
mouth now. I hate that story. I just find it really sad that so many
people blame their actions and abilities, both good and bad, on a
fictitious entity.

John
Newsgroups: alt.atheism,talk.religion.misc
From: dsoconne@quads.uchicago.edu (Daniel S OConnell)
Subject: Re: THE MIND OF THE BIBLE BELIEVER
Followup-To: talk.religion.misc
Reply-To: dsoconne@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago
Distribution: world,public
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 02:33:24 GMT

>petel@sequent.com (Pete Lancashire) writes:

>But where would Organized Religion Inc. be without such methods, or any
>other dogma, such as communism ? If say we taught kids to think freely
>until they were say, 10 or 12 then let them decide on there own ? Or
>then at that age, gave an open-minded class in school of all the
>different religions and beleifs in the world, it would be interesting.
>
>Now if I could just find such a country....

Try the the U.S.: Unitarian-Universalism fits the bill nicely.

Dano

Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
From: sieferme@stein.u.washington.edu (Eric Sieferman)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism,talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: THE MIND OF THE BIBLE BELIEVER
Date: 5 Jan 1993 17:38:14 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Distribution: world,public
NNTP-Posting-Host: stein.u.washington.edu

In article <1993Jan5.074305.5480@en.ecn.purdue.edu> muehlhau@en.ecn.purdue.edu (John Muehlhausen) writes:
>In article <SCG.93Jan4184949@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> scg@mentor.cc.purdue.edu writes:
>>sdoe@nmsu.edu (Stephen Doe) writes:
>>
>>it is my opinion that a belief in any cosmology which demands one
>>consider oneself to be without inherent value is inherently
>>self-destructive.  to me, christianity, through its doctrine of
>>original sin and reliance on divine grace, meets this criteria.
>
>Without value?  Why would God bother with us if we are without value in His
>eyes?

Uh, you may have missed the point.  The previous message mentioned
INHERENT value.  The "value" of human life in xtian cosmology
is based on its relationship to god, and on its possibility
of becoming greater than itself.  A human in this view is 
immediately undervalued because (a) everyone is tainted by the
crime of A&E, and (b) the ideal standard of behavior, ie. the
standard of godliness, is defined as being unavailable to
human beings.

Xtian writings are full of comparisons of humans and god, and
humans always come up short.

>There must be something worth saving!
>No one deserves fellowship with God,
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>but because He deemed us worthwhile, He saved us by grace through faith
>in Christ.
>
>John M.
>

Or, as Wayne and Garth would say,
"We're not worthy!  We're not worthy!"

This is why your postings are so much fun; whenever we need to 
make a point about xtianity, you jump right in and provide the proof.

-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------
Hi!  I'm .Siggy, the National .Sig Foundation poster child.
---------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: alt.atheism,talk.religion.misc
From: cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Mike Cobb)
Subject: Re: THE MIND OF THE BIBLE BELIEVER
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Distribution: world,public
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 20:22:41 GMT

In <12259@hogg.ed.ac.uk> iad@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Ivan A Derzhanski) writes:

>In article <1993Jan5.223146.29327@ra.royalroads.ca> mlee@post.RoyalRoads.ca 
(Malcolm Lee) writes:
>>Sure, when God placed the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil in the Garden, 
HE
>>knew that the people would partake of it and be condemned to death as well as
>>all the generations that followed them.  GOD knew this!

>Minor correction.  He didn't just happen to know it.  He made it so.
>He was the one who would sentence Adam, Eve and all their descendants
>to death, and he wanted to do it.  The only reason for which was that
>he was an unspeakable jerk.

>>   That is why He provided a plan for salvation through His one and only Son,
>>Jesus Christ.

>His one and only son?  Whose fault is it that he only has one son?
>He could have begotten a google of sons if he wanted, couldn't he?

>-- 
> `D'ye mind tellin me whit the two o ye are gaun oan aboot?' (The Glasgow
>Ivan A Derzhanski  (iad@cogsci.ed.ac.uk; iad@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu)    Gospel)
>* Centre for Cognitive Science,  2 Buccleuch Place,  Edinburgh EH8 9LW,  UK
>* Cowan House, Pollock Halls, 18 Holyrood Park Road, Edinburgh EH16 5BD, UK

Sure He could have, but why would he have needed to?  The point is not that He
provided a plan for redemption through His "one and only Son", but that He did
it at all.  It would be a rather raw deal to be created by a God who knew that
we would sin and that his justice required punishment, if we did not have a way
out.  Praise the Lord that He provided one, himself!
From: jeon@carson.u.washington.edu (Sangyong Jeon)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Easter whodunnit
Date: 11 Jan 1993 01:27:23 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
NNTP-Posting-Host: carson.u.washington.edu

I recommend a book by Holger Kersten titled "Jesus lived in India"
(Elements books ltd. 1986).
The title may sound prepostrous to some, but it's not a book of one
groundless statement after another. I am not saying this book must be
right, but it does provide one possible scenario based on ancient
documents (at the least, the book lists its sources).
Happy reading.

Opinions here are mine and mine only.
jeon
From: livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Reality- What's Probable?
Date: 13 Jan 93 00:55:49 GMT
Organization: sgi
NNTP-Posting-Host: solntze.wpd.sgi.com

In article <TORKEL.93Jan13011329@bast.sics.se>, torkel@sics.se (Torkel Franzen) writes:
|> In article <1ivjtdINNh32@fido.asd.sgi.com> livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com 
|> (Jon Livesey) writes:
|> 
|>    >What's impossible is to prove the non-existence of something which
|>    >is not intrinsically self-contradictory.   An entity that could, at
|>    >least in principle, exist.
|> 
|>   A couple of remarks. First, Katz made a stronger statement,
|> that "standards of evidence apply to positive assertions, about the 
|> existence of entities", suggesting that there isn't even any evidence for
|> other kinds of statements. Now suppose we restrict ourselves to "proof",
|> as you suggest. We then need to know what kind of "proof" you have in
|> mind. For example, apparently you hold that there is no "proof" that you
|> don't have a rhinoceros in the room with you as you read this. Do
|> you mean by "proof" a mathematical proof? A proof in formal logic?

You've got the wrong poster.   I didn't ask for any kind of proof.
I just pointed out that the analogy was off the point.

Ask the original poster what kind of proof he has in mind.

jon.
Xref: sparky alt.atheism:25026 talk.religion.misc:25197
From: bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Robert Beauchaine)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism,talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: THE MIND OF THE BIBLE BELIEVER
Date: 5 Jan 93 17:44:23 GMT
Followup-To: alt.atheism
Distribution: world,public
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton,  OR.

In article <1993Jan5.074305.5480@en.ecn.purdue.edu> muehlhau@en.ecn.purdue.edu (John Muehlhausen) writes:
>
>Without value?  Why would God bother with us if we are without value in His
>eyes?  There must be something worth saving!  No one deserves fellowship with
>God, but because He deemed us worthwhile, He saved us by grace through faith
>in Christ.
>

  Well, run the numbers.  Apparently most of us are of very little
  value indeed unless we have this wonderful gift of faith.

  In short, I'm yelling bullshit.  What you're god apparently loves
  most of all is fucking with his creation for a good bellylaugh.

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ 

Bob Beauchaine bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM 

"Look, I tried the cat experiment.  On the third trial, the cat was
dead.  On each of the subsequent 413 trials, it remained dead.  Am I
doing something wrong?"
			James Nicoll

Q.  How many Heisenbergs does it take to screw in a light bulb?
A.  If you know the number, you don't know where the light bulb is!

Newsgroups: alt.atheism
From: mccreary@sword.eng.hou.compaq.com (Ed McCreary)
Subject: Re: God, what use is it ?
Organization: Compaq Computer Corp.
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 16:56:15 GMT

In article <C0EF2M.BD0@dale.cts.com> npm@dale.cts.com (Nancy Milligan) writes:
>Even if there was a god, or gods, why would it want to be worshipped?
>I would think that it/they have more interesting things to do than
>muck about with a little mud ball named Earth.  
>

Ego?

--
Ed McCreary                                               ,__o
mccreary@sword.eng.hou.compaq.com                       _-\_<,
"If it were not for laughter, there would be no Tao."  (*)/'(*)
From: mlee@post.RoyalRoads.ca (Malcolm Lee)
Subject: Re: THE MIND OF THE BIBLE BELIEVER
Organization: Royal Roads Military College, Victoria, B.C.
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 16:30:51 GMT


In article <2935548117.0.p00261@psilink.com>, "Robert Knowles" <p00261@psilink.com> writes:
|> STILL POSTING HIS MINDLESS CHRISTIAN DRIVEL IN ALT.ATHEISM,
|> MALCOLM LEE WRITES:
|> 
|> >I had already used my mind.  I am not a high school dropout, but a university 
|> >graduate in Comp Sci.  
|> 
|> ON THE OTHER HAND THIS SAME FELLOW CLAIMS THAT HE CANNOT FIGURE OUT HOW TO
|> EDIT HIS NEWSGROUP TO EXCLUDE ALT.ATHEISM.  HE IS EITHER A LIAR OR A FOOL.
|> 
|> MALCOLM!!
|> 
|> HERE IS YOUR NEWSGROUP!!!!
|> 
|> Newsgroups: alt.atheism,talk.religion.misc
|> 
|> NOW IF YOU CAN STOP HALLUCINATING FOR ABOUT 5 SECONDS, FIND THE KEY
|> MARKED "DELETE" ON YOUR KEYBOARD.  WITH ME?
|> 
|> MOVE YOUR CURSOR TO THE LINE WHICH CONTAINS THE NEWSGROUP AND PLACE IT
|> RIGHT BEFORE THE CHARACTERS "ALT.ATHEISM".  STILL WITH ME?
|> 
|> NOW PRESS THE DELETE KEY AT LEAST 12 TIMES!!!!!!!
|> 
|> THERE, NOW THAT NASTY CROSS POSTING TO ALT.ATHEISM IS GONE!!!!!!
|> 
|> NOW YOU CAN NOW GO BACK TO HALLUCINATING, BIBLE READING, AND
|> WORKING ON YOUR PH.D. IN COMPUTER SCIENCE.
|> 
|> 
|> 
Thank you very much for your advice.  :)
As of this date and time, this will be my last post to alt.atheism.  
Have a nice day.

God loves, Man kills.
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
From: ethridge@bnr.ca (Allen Ethridge)
Subject: Re: looking for God
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 16:12:47 GMT
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Richardson, Tx.

In article <93006.083705BLD110@psuvm.psu.edu> BLD110@psuvm.psu.edu writes:
> [deletions]
>
>I have a question for those of you who are sure that there is no evidence that
>God exists.  What is the life force?  What is that leaves that body when it
>dies?  When you pick a flower what flows from it that causes it to wilt?  What
>do you use to explain our complex ecosystem which can not operate without the
>full circle of elements, i.e. soil can not produce vegitation without humas.
>
>It seems to me that most of those writing on this list are blindly posting
>their rhetoric without really listening or considering what the others are
>saying.  There are some exceptions, and I guess they are what keep me reading.
>                          Betty Lee Dowlin

This is funny - a paragraph full of rhetoric followed by a paragraph
comdemning rhetoric.

"What is the life force?" - What life force?  I'm not aware of such a thing.

"What is it that leaves the body when it dies?" - I'm not aware of
anything leaving the body, apart from certain organs emptying themselves.
Or are you assuming the existence of some unexplained "life force?"

"When you pick a flower what flows from it that causes it to wilt?" - It
doesn't wilt because something flows from it, it wilts because it cannot
obtain the nutrients it needs to sustain itself.

"What do you use to explain our complex ecosystem which can not operate without
the full circle of elements, i.e. soil can not produce vegitation [sic] without
humas." - Evolution works for me.

Newsgroups: alt.atheism,talk.religion.misc
From: martini@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (ok)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism,talk.religion.misc,alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Tax the Church
Date: 4 Jan 93 18:27:46 GMT
Followup-To: alt.atheism
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

as far as United way helping more than a local church.. all of our charity
run thrift stores (GoodWill, Salvation Army) hire people, and seem to charge
higher prices for the same things that lutheran/catholic/etc stores sell,
and the church stores are staffed by volunteers.. so the church help-out
operations seem to be trying to help more people, the pure donation recipients
and those of us who *buy* from the stores in a an effort to recycle on a 
larger scale of material goods.. marketing in order to maintain a cash flow
is important if charities are selling things..

as for taxing the religious part of charity-churches, well, that's their
real administration/staffing focus.. the church and the community that it
creates is something that leaves Unitarian Universal styled worship to be
appealing to pagans..

anyway.. just a few thoughts..
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
From: ednclark@kraken.itc.gu.edu.au (Jeffrey Clark)
Subject: Re: THE MIND OF THE BIBLE BELIEVER
Organization: ITC, Griffith University, Brisbane, Australia
Distribution: world,public
Date:  6 Jan 93 01:35:43 GMT

ron@syacus.acus.oz.au (Ron Williams) writes:

>craig sivils (casivils@lescsse.jsc.nasa.gov) wrote:
>> Why do weight lifters keep lifting weights when they know they are capable
>> of lifting the weight?
>> 
>> 				Craig

>Que? No comprendo.

Ron, he wants you to answer "So others may see they can do it!". In this way
God is justified in letting Satan have his way with Job and his daughters and
wife and belongings. This way the story can go into the Bible for
instruction of thousands of generations to come. Of course, it would be much
better to just make up the story in the first place; this way the people
would learn and Job and his family etc would not have to suffer. In fact, if
God really is as smart as they say he is, it's probably exactly what he did!

Jeff.

Newsgroups: alt.atheism,talk.religion.misc
From: sieferme@stein.u.washington.edu (Eric Sieferman)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism,talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: THE MIND OF THE BIBLE BELIEVER
Date: 6 Jan 1993 17:02:37 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Distribution: world,public
NNTP-Posting-Host: stein.u.washington.edu

In article <1993Jan5.223146.29327@ra.royalroads.ca> mlee@post.RoyalRoads.ca (Malcolm Lee) writes:
>
>But we can have eternal life and the knowledge of good and evil.

I already have knowledge of good and evil, but I have never had
a clear explanation what xtians mean by "eternal life", other
than a circular description of "being with god".  If you are
looking for a career in religious salesmanship, try to
offer items of value to prospective customers.

>Sure, when God placed the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil in the Garden, HE
>knew that the people would partake of it and be condemned to death as well as 
>all the generations that followed them.  GOD knew this!  

According to the tale, God not only knew it, he could have stopped
it, but chose not to.  The resulting death and suffering is on
his hands, or would be if he really existed.

>   That is why He provided a plan for salvation through His one and only Son,
>Jesus Christ.

Fine.  First, he creates imperfect beings and punishes them
for being imperfect.  Then, he arranges to have a Jewish carpenter
executed, and claims that this cancels his original error.
What a jerk!

>We are living in the age of grace whereby we may be saved IF we
>choose to follow Jesus.

I chose to follow Jesus several years ago, so I guess that 
I am saved.  

>There's nothing more to it than that.  

Before he was hanged, Westley Allen Dodd claimed to have 
accepted Jesus as his savior, so we can assume that he
will have eternal life.  His young victims, murdered at
age 4 or so, never had the chance to accept Jesus,
so they probably don't have eternal life.

>    Maybe I'm being too simplistic.

You are.

>I don't post too often but I am a firm
>believer and I just couldn't stand by silent in admidst this debate.

There is no debate.  You are posting the same old tired 
xtian drivel in alt.atheist, a serious breach of manners.

>I don't
>mean to flame anyone.

Right.  You're just telling us that we are going to suffer
eternal torment if we don't accept your interpretation
of an ancient fairy tale.

>After all, Jesus came into this world to save not to
>condemn.

Your NT must be different than mine.  In mine, J and his gang
did quite a bit of condemning.

>And in His likeness, I would not do the same.
>    I welcome your response.

Somehow I think that you will not like the responses you get ...

-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------
Hi!  I'm .Siggy, the National .Sig Foundation poster child.
---------------------------------------------------------------

Xref: sparky alt.atheism:25056 talk.religion.misc:25226 alt.pagan:14987
From: iad@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Ivan A Derzhanski)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism,talk.religion.misc,alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Bible translations, or Does God Speak Latin?
Keywords: Catholic, Latin, Bible
Date: 5 Jan 93 22:26:24 GMT
Organization: Centre for Cognitive Science, Edinburgh, UK

In article <jhb.726199947@monet> jhb@maths.su.oz.au (John Brownie) writes:
<iad@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Ivan A Derzhanski) writes:
<>In article <2B4771D7.12848@news.service.uci.edu> cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
<>>Excuse me, but any church is MADE UP of Toms, Dicks, and Harrys, and
<>>even a few Janes and Marys,
<
<>No.  Not at all.  It is only the congregation that is made of them.
<
<And what is the difference between a church and a congregation?

What is the difference between a company of shepherds (or butchers)
and a flock of sheep?

-- 
 `D'ye mind tellin me whit the two o ye are gaun oan aboot?' (The Glasgow
Ivan A Derzhanski  (iad@cogsci.ed.ac.uk; iad@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu)    Gospel)
* Centre for Cognitive Science,  2 Buccleuch Place,  Edinburgh EH8 9LW,  UK
* Cowan House, Pollock Halls, 18 Holyrood Park Road, Edinburgh EH16 5BD, UK