From: vbaker@hamp.hampshire.edu
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: MORMONISM ??????
Date: 12 Apr 92 02:09:32 GMT
Organization: Hampshire College

In article <1992Apr8.022828.26636@hellgate.utah.edu>, jwindley%asylum.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Jay Windley) writes:
> fsrla@acad3.alaska.edu writes:
>>I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this,
> 
> Where else would you post it?  This is the perfect place.
> 
>>but here goes......
>>My girlfriend is a Mormon, and I'm interested in
>>finding out more about the beliefs and all, that are related
>>to Mormonism.  However, she's in New Mexico at the moment, and
>>I live in Alaska, so it's a bit difficult to find out things,
>>except through letters.  That's a bit slow.  Anyway, she sent
>>me her book of Mormon and I've started reading it.
>>My question is this....is there anything else out there that I 
>>can look into to find out these things?
> 
> Absolutely the best thing to do is to find a Mormon who doesn't mind
> answering your questions.  Then ask him/her your questions.  The best
> person with which to do this is your girlfriend, but for obvious
> reasons that isn't going to be easy.
> 

Before I subject you to my opinions, you should know that I left the 
Mormon church on moral grounds about ten months ago.  I am likely as
biased as Jay Windley, but in the opposite direction.

I agree with Jay's opening paragraph but would recommend making an
intelligent judgement based on a heck of a lot more than one viewpoint.

> We are a proselyting religion, which means that in your area there are
> probably missionaries who do nothing all day by answer questions.
> This has its ups and its downs.
> 

Ho, indeed it does.

> One "up" is that they will be equipped with all kinds of reading
> material besides the Book of Mormon which do a lot of explaining
> without requiring a lot of reading.  Another "up" is that they are
> comfortable discussing Mormon beliefs.  Not many Mormons are -- it's a
> bit scary.
> 

I've never interacted with a missionary who would discuss anything at
any depth.  They've been ordered not to engage in arguments and told
that the best way to do this is to avoid disagreement.  They'll nod
politely and then disregard everything you've just said.

Few Mormons know enough about Mormon beliefs and Mormon scripture to
answer any questions not explicitly covered by the lesson manual.
They'll spout party line at you and clam up when you start asking 
questions.

> A "down" is that they will probably try to sell you on Mormonism.  If
> that's a direction you want to take, then fine.  If not, you might
> find their approach a little too forward.  This depends on the
> character of the individual missionaries.
> 

And sell and sell and sell and sell and sell.  Fear tactics, guilt 
tactics, intimidation tactics and all.

> If you want to go this route, look under "Church of Jesus Christ of
> Latter-day Saints" in your White Pages.
> 
> One book I like is _The Articles of Faith_ by James Talmage.  It's an
> old book, and not 100% correct, but it's one example of a systematic
> exposition of Mormon beliefs.  Most college libraries have it.  I'm
> sure other LDS posters will give you a reference to their favorite
> book.
> 

The reason it's not `100% correct' is that church policy has changed 
since then and all of the old policies disappeared.  This happens in
Mormonism -- `who controls the present, controls the past.'

Check out their beliefs about blacks and the priesthood, marriages 
arranged before birth, and the law of consecration for specific cases.

> Willard Smith wrote an FAQ on Mormonism for soc.religion.christian.
> You might find it interesting, but it's geared toward someone who
> plans to debate Mormonism.  As such, it's more of a response to
> frequently-raised objections, and not a very helpful to the genuinely
> interested.  I've been working on condensing it down to a brief
> summary, but I won't get that done for a long time.
> 

Haven't read it.  Probably should.

> You've probably realized that the Book of Mormon doesn't read like a
> good Tom Clancy novel.  It doesn't go in chronological order, and
> there's a lot of Semitic "literary baggage" you have to get around.
> I've seen a list of Book of Mormon references which, if you read them
> in order, give you a pretty good idea of what's going on.  Then when
> you read it cover-to-cover it makes more sense.
> 
> One last thing.  This newsgroup is a good place to ask your question,
> but probably a bad place to get answers.  There are readers and
> contributors of all faiths in this group, and the discussions vary in
> quality.  It is not religion at its best.  The picture you get of any
> religion or of all religions from reading this group will be wrong,
> and may leave you with the impression that we're always at each
> other's throats.

Way to cover your butt.  I'm good, but any response that disagrees with
me is bad . . . .

Mormonism, all told, is a really cool religion if you're into white 
supremecy, gender-based role-systems, misogyny, scapegoating, a strict
hierarchy of authority starting with your home-teacher and ending with
God, spoonfeeding, lesson manuals with all of the right answers, 
Victorian morals, exclusive truth everyone-else-is-led-by-Satan, and
zenophobia.


  *Hi. I'm Vincent's wife, and about two years ago I was in the same 
  place you seem to be now: Wow, this person is neat, but what do they 
  believe? Along with the above, I would suggest finding the local LDS
  church an going some Sunday morning. (Warning; it'll take about 3 hours,
  and don't expect a totally clear picture.) That way you can see the 
  faith in some semblance of action.  Jay says the Book of Mormon is 
  hard to read -- I found it no more difficult that any other religious 
  text, and having read the Book of Mormon, which in theory guides the
  church, I was much more able to see the areas where the practices were
  directly against the scriptures. All in all, an interesting experience.
  Good luck in your inquiry.
                                  Meg*
 

> --------------------------------+---------------------------------------
> Jay Windley                     | jwindley@asylum.utah.edu
> Department of Computer Science  +---------------------------------------
> Univ. of Utah, Salt Lake City   | "I have detailed files."  -- T2
                                                                ^^^^
WOOP!  WOOP!  WOOP!  R-RATED MOVIE ALERT!  WOOP!  WOOP!

;-)


Vincent, vbaker@hamp.hampshire.edu

By the way, Christianity, and specifically Mormonism, is one of my very
favorite topics of discussion.  I'm perfectly willing, happy and anxious
to discuss it at any length with anybody.  If you agree with, disagree
with, or otherwise have strong feelings about anything above, TELL ME.  
Let's talk about it.
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc