From: iad@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Ivan A Derzhanski)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism,talk.religion.misc,alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Bible translations, or Does God Speak Latin?
Keywords: Catholic, Latin, Bible
Date: 4 Jan 93 11:13:35 GMT
Organization: Centre for Cognitive Science, Edinburgh, UK

In article <2B4771D7.12848@news.service.uci.edu> cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
>In article <C09stH.J02.1@cs.cmu.edu> drake+@cs.cmu.edu (Drake) writes:
>>[...] when [the Masses] were in Latin, they were beautiful, they were
>>mysterious, and they were powerful.  Now every Tom, Dick and Harry can
>>actually understand what the priest has really been saying all these
>>years, and it doesn't sound so nice anymore.
>
>I sure as hell hope you're being sarcastic, but in case you're not . . .
>
>Are you nuts?  Where the hell is the beauty in hearing someone babble
>gibberish at you and sitting there bored for an hour while he does it,
>with his back turned to you all the time?

Who knows, maybe many centuries ago, when there was very little
entertainment available, people could be attracted by this kind of thing.
I imagine life in early mediaeval Europe was kind of dull, and then after
six days of hard work one would welcome even a boring break.

But beauty is in the ear of the hearkener.  I for one find Latin ugly.
This has nothing to do with the level of my acquaintance with it.
It just happens that English sounds much more pleasant to me.

>How the hell am I supposed
>to gain enlightenment if I can't understand what the hell is being said?

Suffice it for you to know that it is the Truth (tm).  If it sounds
like gibberish, so much the better.  It will take more faith to take
in, and if there is more faith, there will be more grace.

>Excuse me, but any church is MADE UP of Toms, Dicks, and Harrys, and
>even a few Janes and Marys,

No.  Not at all.  It is only the congregation that is made of them.

>and it's about goddamned time they could understand what was being said.

They'd better not.  That might make them think that they can think for
themselves, which is dangerous.  Let them believe that the wisdom of
the Word is beyond their ken, Latin or no Latin.

>If is hearing stuff babbled at you that you don't understand means
>"power" to you, then just get plowed and read the dictionary backwards.  

You're forgetting that, at the time when the Roman Catholic Church
decided that the Word sounded more powerful in Latin, there was hardly
anyone apart from the clergy who could read at all, forwards or backwards
(not to mention that there weren't all that many dictionaries around).

>You make it sound like the "downfall" of the church is due to something
>like, "Damn!  Now that they can actually UNDERSTAND us and know what
>we're up to, they don't like it!"  Too bad.

Yes, and does that sound unreasonable?  (It is incorrect, though,
otherwise the Orthodox Churches would have perished long ago --
they've been translating the Bible all along.)

-- 
 `D'ye mind tellin me whit the two o ye are gaun oan aboot?' (The Glasgow
Ivan A Derzhanski  (iad@cogsci.ed.ac.uk; iad@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu)    Gospel)
* Centre for Cognitive Science,  2 Buccleuch Place,  Edinburgh EH8 9LW,  UK
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