HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: 78witherspoo@cua.edu
Subject: Re:      Should we respect others?
Organization: The Catholic University of America
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 13:41:32 GMT

In article <Bsxu9y.E81@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>, creps@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Steve Creps) writes:
Steve--

	Thanks for your reply!  I just got back from vacation and I am trying
to wade my way throught my mail files!  I read your post and understand the
points you were trying to make. 

However...


>    What's the matter? Can't you understand a two-and-a-third-line run-on
> sentence 8-)?  What I meant was a case in which Person A has belief X, and
> Person B has belief Y, where X == not Y (as opposed to X != Y).  If Person
> A thinks that Person B's belief is just as good as his own, then this is
                                             ^^^^
> the same as saying, "I believe X, but the belief that X is totally false
> is just as valid as my belief that X is true."  In this case, Person A
> must not believe X very strongly.  I hope this makes what I said a bit
> clearer.  I was tired when I wrote my article.

I understand the part about being tired, but I'm still not satisfied.  I
diagrammed this out, and mathematically it makes sense.  But there's one word
in this paragragh that I disagree with: "good".  I don't think it makes any
difference that beliefs are as "good" as yours, you can still respect them.

For example:  I respect the Islamic faith.  I have read selections from the
Koran and think that their spiritual angle on life is a fascinating and
beautiful one.  However, the treatment of their women, as prescribed by the
Koran, is absolutely deplorable, IMHO.  So in this light, I don't think the
Islamic view of the role of women is "good" at all, but the respect is still
there.

BTW, I have spoken to an Islamic woman about this, and she told me she was
quite comfortable with it.  "There is security in having a fixed place in
Allah's plan," she said. 

So, there it is.

Love and good walking,

Tom Witherspoon
> --Steve
> 

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Date:         Sun, 16 Aug 1992 22:17:02 EDT
From:         JEK@NIHCU.BITNET
Subject:      Mr. LeVey and "humanists"

Michael Kline writes:

 > I'm also reminded that Anton LeVey, author of THE SATANIST
 > BIBLE, called all Humanists to quit fooling themselves and join
 > his church.  You see, you can worship anything you want and
 > belong to the Satanist Church -- just don't worship Jesus.
 >
 > That should tell the Christian something about "other
 > religions."

Please note that "(secular) humanist" is routinely used these days
as an alternate term for "atheist." Mike, you seem to be
understanding it as an alternate term for "non-Christian of any
kind, whether Buddhist, Hindu,...." I don't think that Mr. LeVey was
saying that Jews and moslems are welcome to join his group while
retaining their former beliefs.

 Yours,
 James Kiefer
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Date:         Sat, 22 Aug 1992 03:34:46 EDT
From:         Marty Helgesen <MNHCC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Biblical meaning of church

On Sat, 22 Aug 1992 02:21:00 EST David J. Moreau said:
<Stuff omitted>
>
>>It seems to me that the church began at Pentecost, and that Jesus
>>existed before that (even from the beginning of the beginning!)
>
>Did it not begin when Christ Himself built it? (Matt 16:18)

No, Jesus said, "on this Rock I WILL build my Church."  It was something
He was going to do in the future.  Since the Church is the mystical body
of Christ some have said that the Church began with the incarnation, but
Pentecost is generally considered the birthday of the Church.

Marty Helgesen
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Date:         Thu, 13 Aug 1992 07:23:10 -0700
From:         "Patrick Brooks" <AZPAB@ASUACVAX.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Is the Bible Absolute Truth?

>The Bible is not a set of logical propositional truths.  In order
>to adequately prove this I will follow up with a posting from
>talk.religion.misc containing a large number of contradictions and scientific
>errors in the Bible.
>

I would be interested in your list.  But I agree with others, *please*
e-mail it to me.  I am new to discussion lists and don't want to
commit any electronic booboos 8-)

Thanks in advance

Pat

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Patrick Brooks                     | Of making many books there is no
Bitnet:   AZPAB.ASUACVAX           | end, and much study is a weariness
Internet: AZPAB.ACVAX.INRE.ASU.EDU | of the flesh.
                                   |   -Qoheleth
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Date:         Mon, 17 Aug 1992 09:52:57 CDT
From:         Joe Moore <CC19@SDSUMUS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Trusting Scoutmasters

> I think that maybe some people on this list need to have the
> difference between homosexuality and pedophilia explained.
>
> Homosexuals are attracted to men, pedophiles to boys(or girls).
>
> How many typical heterosexual men are attracted to girls?
>
> Jason

I'm a heterosexual, and I pray that I'm not a pedophile, but don't
ask me to hang around the locker room of young girls.  My mind would
not be on that day's camping expedition, I'm sure.  Nothing
scientific, just a personal observation.

Joe Moore
From: ISPMOM@ASUACAD.BITNET (Madge McBurney)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: Is the Bible Absolute Truth?
Date: 12 Aug 92 17:10:20 GMT
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X-cc:         Ernest Conrad Mueller <mueller@owlnet.rice.edu>,
              "Steven R. Klepzig" <sklepzi@ssb1.saff.utah.edu>
              12 Aug 1992 15:22:33 GMT from <mueller@OWLNET.RICE.EDU>

On Wed, 12 Aug 1992 15:22:33 GMT Ernest Conrad Mueller said:
>
>The Bible is not a set of logical propositional truths.  In order
>to adequately prove this I will follow up with a posting from
>talk.religion.misc containing a large number of contradictions and scientific
>errors in the Bible.

Earnest, please do not do this.  I am trying very hard to keep the
cross-posting from NetNews to Christia to a minimum.  Please respond
privately if anyone wishes more information.

Christia co-owner   Bitnet:   ispmom@asuacad
Madge McBurney      Internet: ispmom@asuvm.inre.asu.edu
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Date:         Fri, 21 Aug 1992 10:16:49 CST
From:         A16905@ITESO.BITNET
Subject: Re: masturbation

Thanks for that Lora. Some things in the last post were just Great ! Like
constant Prayer.

Some, awful, like tieing a hand to the bed :-(

Shalom,
Memo.
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Date:         Fri, 21 Aug 1992 03:05:44 -0500
From:         "Michael S. Muegel" <mmuegel@MOT.COM>
Subject:      Non-Delivery Report for <9208202114.AA23074@motgate.mot.com>
X-To:         CHRISTIA@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU

The Mot.COM major relay, Pobox.Mot.COM, was not able to transfer electronic
mail messages from 3:26 pm to 6:18 pm CDT on Thursday, August 21. An
inspection of the electronic mail system log files shows that a mail
message you sent was not delivered. Your mail message should have been sent
to your local mail manager (ala postmaster) for disposition.

Some important facts on the mail that was undelivered:

   Message-ID:                 <9208202114.AA23074@motgate.mot.com>
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This message has been generated automatically. If you need further
clarification feel free to contact me directly.

-Mike

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Date:         Fri, 21 Aug 1992 10:42:46 CST
From:         A16905@ITESO.BITNET
Subject: Re: This won't win me any friends, but...

Right, Kerry, but you should know that 'dedicating' our hearts to Mery is
very different from dedicating our hearts to Jesus.

Catholics have  been criticized because we make analogy between Mary and
Jesus. That is a completely FALSE statement.  Jesus is our Lord and Saviour.
The Olny One. Mary is a creature as you and me, but she was chosen  to be
the Mother of God and she is now the first intersesor before the Lord
(intersesion, not mediation) and that's why we hnour her as the most
priviledged creature of all.

Shalom,
Memo.
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Organization: University of Missouri-Columbia Campus Computing, 314-882-2000
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 14 Aug 1992 13:12:27 CDT
From:         Elizabeth Stevens <CCCAMPER@MIZZOU1.BITNET>
Subject:      RE: Sexual persuasion and sexual child abuse
              14 Aug 1992 13:26:00 GMT from
              <Z_STAFF_CL@SOUTHAMPTON-INSTITUTE.AC.UK>

On Fri, 14 Aug 1992 13:26:00 GMT <Z_STAFF_CL@SOUTHAMPTON-INSTITUTE.AC.UK> said:
>Chris Reed's latest posting both saddens me and yet makes me want to
>give thanks for his witness.
>
I don't think Chris would mind if I mentioned that the last time I was
over on that part of campus and introduced myself, she was a she. :)

Elizabeth
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Date:         Fri, 14 Aug 1992 16:42:40 -0600
From:         Vernon Galloway <gallowav@CC.GETTYSBURG.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Is the Bible Absolute Truth?

In Message Fri, 14 Aug 1992 14:55:39 EDT,
  dave talaga x2752 <talaga@E5SB.OSDHW.SYR.GE.COM> writes:

>>
>> Okay now.  I have been accused of being fundamentalist by many people.  But i
   t
>> is simply not true that the Bible is 100% correct in all ways.  Inerrant
>> in faith and morals, maybe, but certainly not in history, or science.
>>

Okay Dave,
I'm not not a scientist or a historian, so I lean on others for help in
things like this.  Quite a few years ago I was good friends with a Professor
of Chemistry at another college.  This man, in addition to being a scientist
was a christian. His view on the Bible and science?  The Bible doesn't say
much about science, but what it says has never been proven wrong.

Yes Dave, in one respect you are right.  The Bible doesn't tell us
everything we need to know about everything.  But then it doesn't clain to.

History?  William Foxwell Albright was a noted archaeologist who specialized
in Biblical archaeology.  I had the pleasure of attending several lectures
by Dr Albright.  One of his points was that the Bible was a very reliable
source for archaeologists. If it said that a city was in a certain area, it
would be found if you searched long enough.

As an aside, Dr Albright's books are quite valuable in understanding the Old
Testmant period.

Vernon


Vernon Galloway
Gettysburg College
MicroComputer Technician
gallowav@gettysburg.edu
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
From: dzeigler@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Daniel R Zeigler)
Subject: Re: Taming the Tongue and Controlling the Keyboard (2)
Summary: A clarification
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 18:41:51 GMT

I just read my post, and realized I'd better make a clarification--before one 
of you rebuked me (privately, of course)!

Sometimes it is absolutely necessary to rebuke a believer for his or her sin 
*in public* without going through all of the Matthew 18 steps first.  A prime 
example is Paul's "opposing Peter to his face, for he was in the wrong."  Here
is a situation where a Christian--a leader at that--is leading others to sin by
his example.  Even Barnabas is led astray.  Paul doesn't have the luxury to sit
back and wait--he has to oppose the sin right away, to nip it in the bud before
the whole church is contaminated.  I'd say in a church setting, when one of the
members sins publicly and several others start jumping on the bandwagon, we 
would have to apply the "oppose him to his face" principle rather than the 
"just between the two of you" principle.  On the net, however, I'd say the 
latter principle would apply far more often.

Just goes to show you that the Christian walk is not a matter of legalistically
applying principles.  There is much need for spiritual discernment, eyes that
are kept clear from the blindness that un-dealt-with sin brings, and a current 
walk with the One who is our wisdom.

Hope that helps!

Love in Jesus
Daniel
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Date:         Sun, 16 Aug 1992 15:47:00 +1000
From:         Ken Diefenbach <DIEFENBAK@TOPAZ.UCQ.EDU.AU>
Subject:      Progress Report on Kyle
X-To:         christia@asuvm.inre.asu.edu

Well it's been a long week, but I wanted to wait to post the details from home
rather than before work because I usually rush through my email there.

    As I mentioned in a prayer request earlier last week, the local education
department specialist who had reviewed Kyle a bit over a year ago when he was at
Kindy checkeid him out at preschool this week.

(Sorry about the typos - my antiquated VT100 emulator on my equally antiquated
Amiga 1000 at home isn't as good as the vt320 emulator @ work...)

     Well, to cut a long story short, she thought his "muscle tone" was a bit
worse (this is usually evidenced by bulk tip-toeing around rather than a more
orthodox stride) BUT she was _amazed_ (and I quote) at his development in
speech and comprehension. Which is wonderful and an answer to many prayers by
many people. He will repeat pre-school next year (which is what we expected)
and we'll see how he goes from there. Thanks God for all good things (good
things aren't necessarily 'perfect' in the wold's eyes (couldn't resist the
pun folks. Sorry.))

    I'm sitting in our study protecting me and number 1 son from each other.
(There have hbeen a couple of football injuries around here recently - both
due to being on the receiving ends of kicks). Last week Adam (nearly 7)
bowled dad over by a strategically placed kick in that definitively male area.
Belted the ball at me from about 3 yards away - %) - the look on a father's
face when struck as mentioned. Today he stopped a ball with his head - trouble
was there was a tree immediately behind his head (I thought I'd killed him for
a brief second - he and I are both a bit melodramatic)

    Soccer it is from now on (or association football if there are any English
subscribers).

    But back to Kyle - he reminded us yesterday we have a long way to go still,
(he has the odd bad day, and is _not_ happy in crowds especially when everyone
else in the family goes off in different races at a chudrch sports day) but
thank the Lord he (ie Kyle) is off and running (even if he was a bit slow off
the mark)

    And the other thing I should mention - the education department specialist
had received a copy of the IQ test Kyle had at the spastic centre. She sent it
back with a blistering serve about the appropriateness of an aural test on a
child with speech and comprehension troubles. Also IQ tests on kids are
unreliable until at least 7.

    Thanks for all the prayers out there. For all the othe instantly ancients
(ie parents) outr there, you're in my prayers too.

Grateful regards and prayers
Ken D.
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Date:         Thu, 20 Aug 1992 11:09:34 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Further clarification (longer!)
              20 Aug 1992 15:00:59 GMT from <78witherspoo@CUA.EDU>

Alright, look:

If parents with Democrat values (or prochoice family values or whatever)
want their kids to have condoms, let *them* buy them and give them to
their kids.  But it is not the government's place to either buy them
or give them to children of parents who disapprove.

The Democrats like to say that good families talk with their children
about sex.  Fine.  If they have all those great family values that
Clinton claims they do, let them have those discussions and give out
those condoms, and leave other families and other people's children
(and the taxpayers' money and the government) out of it.

It just makes sense.

Love INC,
         ---Kerry
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Date:         Wed, 19 Aug 1992 15:42:00 EDT
From:         Richard.Campbell@MVS.UDEL.EDU
Subject:      Re: Handling Beggars
X-To:         CHRISTIA@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU

  Chris -- I think you did well in giving food.  When I was in LA, I never saw
so many homeless in my life.  Some believers there said they never give out
0oney, but they will carry around some food in a backpack and hand it out.
While there, I did all three responses.  I bought food for some people, I gave
money a couple times, and I ignored people.  I felt guilty about the latter.
    Of course, the big issue with money is will they use it for food, or drugs
or alcohol?  Giving out food avoids that conflict.  On the other hand, I heard
the story of a big-name Christian figure (the person relating the story
wouldn't say who it was) that gave out a rather large bill to a beggar.  When
the man with him questioned his action, he said something like, "My
responsibility is to give, what he does with the money is his responsibility."
    Unfortunatley, there are false beggars.  I guess we can ask the Holy
Spirit for discernment in the moment rather than make rigid guidelines.  I
think you did alright with your electric bill situation (but who am I to say?)
                                     Rich
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Date:         Fri, 21 Aug 1992 13:23:04 EDT
From:         Leo W <Leo_W@QM.CIRCA.UFL.EDU>
Subject:      Re>Jesus speaks
X-To:         Christia <christia@asuvm.inre.asu.edu>

Just some questions about the locution:

Mary said: "I have come briefly to bring my Son"
Jesus said: "I have sent My Mother"

Who is in charge?  Does one have authority over the other, or are they
co-equals, or am I reading too much into this?  I ask because I noticed in the
Koran that Mohammed thought the Christian trinity was the Father, Mother, and
Son, perhaps an impression he got from listening to similar teachings from
Arabic Christians in his time.

I notice that Jesus never mentioned His Father (by title), but mentioned His
mother several times.  This seems so odd to one familiar with His teachings in
the Gospels and the Epistles.  Why?  Is this significant and why or why not?

Jesus said: "I have sent My Mother to mankind"

Is Mary an apostle?  She is not mentioned as such in the NT.  When and where
did she receive her commission?

And one comment: The words about hell reminded me of a passage from Isaiah 66
-- "'I will make new heavens and the new earth.  And they will last forever,'
says the Lord.  'In the same way, your names and your children will always be
with me.  All people will come to worship me.  They will come to worship me
every Sabbath and every New Moon,' says the Lord.  'They will go out and see
the dead bodies of the people who sinned against me.  The worms that eat them
will never die.  The fires that burn them will never stop.  And everyone will
hate to see those bodies.'"

Yours in Christ Jesus,
Leo
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 12 Aug 1992 09:20:17 CDT
From:         CCCHRIS@MIZZOU1.BITNET
Subject:      Gift giving

Neat story, MAK!  Lots of folks (myself included) struggle with financial
limitations these days, which can make Christmas a sad time.  All those
cheery expectations, television commercials of joyful children getting
stacks of (expensive) gifts... no small wonder some people become suicidal
during the Christmas holidays.  Aside of the wise men bearing gifts, we see
little resemblance to what Christmas is supposed to mean.

One Christmas, we paid the bills and had about $50 left for a family of 5.
Hmmm.  So, we bought gag gifts, lots of food, and filled the house with home-
made bread and pies and cookies.  Then we composed "Twelve Months of
Christmas" booklets for the kids.  Each month listed family outings and gifts
they would receive.  In this way, they understood we weren't "rolling in
dough," but they could look forward to goodies throughout the year.  And we
kept current on our bills.  There were ball games in the spring, carnivals
and picnics in the summer, school clothes in the fall, etc., and assorted
presents in-between.  It worked pretty well for us.

For what it's worth...

Chris Reed
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
From: 75furlong@cuavax.dnet.cua.edu
Subject: Re:      Family values, an euphamism?
Organization: The Catholic University of America
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 13:17:47 GMT

In article <Bsun2t.AtA@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>, creps@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Steve Creps) writes:
> That means the mother and father should be married before they start
> having sex.  Otherwise, there likely won't be a father around when the
> children arrive. 

You have a far lower opinion than I do of men. :)

No chance, I suppose, that a mother, a mother and a child all living together
would work, eh? Assuming the child was adopted and the parents had been
married in the church (yes, some Christian churches will perform same-sex
marriages - they just aren't recognized by the state) or legally married in
Denmark, where's the problem? 
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