From: lstowell@pyrnova.mis.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Re: PARALYZER CS tear gas
Date: 31 Aug 92 20:12:33 GMT
Reply-To: lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corp., Mountain View, CA
Originator: daemon@sword.eng.pyramid.com

In article <hansg.715241899@risken> hansg@risken.vd.volvo.se (Hans Granqvist) writes:
>No, I have never trained myself into ignoring tear gas. I have,
>however, done my time in the army, as every male Swede has. And let me
>tell you, buddy, that you lot must have some type of tear
>gas (I'm not a chemist so I cannot say what type was tested on us) if
>one simply can choose to ignore it.
>
    Obviously AIT in the US is able to teach one to ignore the
    effects of CS and CN....   since you've indulged in personal
    attacks, we can comment on the comparative toughness of your
    training compared to REAL combat training.  (And not that 2-3
    minutes worth of exposure you get in basic, either...)

>
>Yeah, what are you anyway? The Night Killer? Have got much experience in
>wounding humans with guns, have you? 
>
   Notice how people who don't know what they're talking about tend
   to use personal attacks?

   I take it you've never actually seen people wounded with small
   arms fire.  You're lucky.  Not everyone is that lucky....but the
   experience DOES teach you just how incredibly tough a human being
   is capable of being.....or at least some of them.

>
>start of story :-) 
>
   Sorry, but the smiley doesn't do much to cover up for a rather
   stupid and simplistic strawman type story. 

>Picture this: James is very annoyed because he got fired (no pun
>intended) from his work as an animal doctor yesterday. 
>He once fought in Vietnam and thought
>that would make him not lose his job. 
>
   Thanx for your attempts to keep the myth of crazed VietNam
   veterans alive.   That alone makes me really wonder how sadly out
   of touch with reality you are.

>He gets really annoyed so he goes
>home and fetches his pistol. He then goes rampage and shoots at
>everything. Remember he is an annoyed vet (pun intended). 
>
   No, originally the postings were about lone attackers...and how
   you might defend yourself against one.   It isn't as simple as
   your fairy tales and TV would have you believe.

   Again, you have the thanks of all the 'Nam vets on the foul
   basis you have used for your "story".  

>The police tries
>to tear gas him, but since he is _very_ annoyed, he chooses not to
>bother with it. The police then tries to shoot him, since they get
>rather annoyed with him too. But since James is both _very_ annoyed and
>_very_ motivated (god knows where he gets his motivation) he chooses to
>evade the bullets for some time, then gets bored, then does not bother,
>stands still and lets the bullets thump into his body. So what if he
>gets more fragmented than a disk running System 7? So what if his heart
>lies in the gutter twenty feet away? Since he has chosen to ignore the
>bullets, they won't hurt him!
>
   In MOST areas, police tend to be a bit better at AIMING than the
   average private citizen.  If you hit someone in a vital area with
   a .22 you can disable them in a single shot.  If you shoot
   blindly, you're gonna be lucky to do it with a .44 magnum.   

   Actually its pretty obvious you don't know what you're talking
   about...and you've posted some pretty slanderous statements.  

>
>Really, I do not think it is possible to _learn_ to ignore tear gas.
>Some people may possibly have a better or worse defense against it, but,
>I doubt it can be avoided.
  
  No, it is just a matter of continuing to function under extreme
  pain.  Suitable motivation...such as attempting to survive the
  experience...can work wonders.   

  From your posting, it is obvious that your personal experience
  with exposure was pretty lacking...about like the basic training
  in most armed forces.  

  As long as it is only CS or CN, the gas mask is, in my opinion and
  experience, more of a bother than the gas.   

  And no, contrary to your slander, I'm no night fighter, I hate
  pain and avoid it whenever possible.  Its just that it is highly
  overrated as motivation or a deterrent.   
>
>As for guns and small calibres, of course, if you shoot somebody you had
>better point your weapon well if you are using a gun with small bullets
>(I am no gun phreak, so I do not know what is the notation of calibres
>in US measurements). When using a larger calibre, you can allow yourself
>to shake more when pointing. 
>
   The worst thing about a weapon in the hands of an untrained user
   is the false sense of security it gives....
   And the fact that you are far more likely to hurt YOURSELF or
   your friends with the darned thing than you are an assailant who
   MAY [or may not] be more knowledgeable than you.   
Newsgroups: misc.consumers