From: root@dogear.spk.wa.us (Bob Kirkpatrick)
Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens,alt.child-support
Subject: Re: starting a family young.
Date: 11 Apr 92 02:49:49 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Dog Ear'd Systems of Spokane, WA

In article <1992Apr8.225823.11157@wdl.loral.com> gjs@wdl30.wdl.loral.com (Gregory Scott) writes:

In article <1992Apr8.225823.11157@wdl.loral.com> you write:
>
>>It is our decision. We will live with it.
>
>Yes it is your decision and the two of you need to be very clear to 
>each other about your thoughts and feelings to the point of exploring
>ideas that might be distasteful to either of you.  It is the openness to
>each other and the trust in each other along with the ability to freely
>communicate your most scary feelings that will get you through the
>rough times you face.
>

Good job! Excellent advice.

>>I _really_ love her now.
>
>Remember something.  She was there before the baby and she will be there
>after the children have grown up and left home.  Put your relationship and
>committment to each other above all else; you will never regret it.

And again.

>>I was going to give her an engagement ring for her graduation and ask her to
>>marry me.
>
>Do it now, its only a few weeks before graduation. Give her the pleasure of
>showing the ring off to all her friends.  I mean, the worst she could do
>is say: no lets wait.

Thin ice. VERY THIN ICE.

>>I believe that a child is a stronger bond of two people than marriage would
>>ever be.
>
>Sorry, I can't agree with this. I do not know of a single marriage that was
>made stronger by children.  Children require time and resouces. Time that
>your SO used to spend with you will be spent on the kid.  Money that the
>two of you used to spend on yourself you spend on doctor bills, clothes,
>toys, etc. etc. etc.  Social life, forget it.

SO is a (quasi) net term. He may not have known what that meant. But aside
from that, you're batting 950.

>>Marriage is paperwork.
> 
>Nonsense, the paperwork is finished by the time you leave the courthouse.
>It is the committment to each other that makes a marriage. (There are also
>some excellent legal reasons but talk to a lawyer about those.)

Good. Not too heady (my response may have been)

>>Religious marriage ceremonies are preposterous and pompous.
>
>Of course, church wedding are for the parents of the bride and 
>sometimes the parents of the groom.  My wife and I have joked
>about renting the Yosemite Valley for our daughter's wedding
>and ordering all the waterfalls to be flowing. <lots of grins>

Hmmmm. Batting average to 925.

The 'formal' wedding is a declaration and a milestone. I've been married 
twice, the first with a judge, the second a full blown affair. There was
never the warmth of the memories going over the wedding photos, and the
memories they led to. Retracing the steps of the formal wedding reminds
us of the feelings we had and allows us to renew them.

>>Organized religion is a loss of individuality.
>>She is Baptist, I was raised Catholic.
>>We both have grown beyond our original religions.
>
>I've heard all this before.  It is very hard to believe in GOD when
>you are immortal.  I pray that you do not have to learn this lesson
>like I did: in a hospital tramua center with five bullet holes in my
>body and a team of doctors sewing me back together.

I've heard it too. I was raised a Catholic, was confirmed and my family had
me aimed at a seminary... I lost my interest somewhere around 15. I never
expected help from, or thanked god for keeping me alive when my leg was
blown off in Viet Nam.  ...see below...

>True religion is something that you grow into not out of.  I was born
>and raised a Catholic and still practice my christianity in the church;
>however, organized religion - as an organization - is pure BS. True
>religion is found within yourself and manifest in your individuality.
>(Boy am I going to draw flames for that statement.)

Not from me you aren't. Religion must be personal choice --as all beliefs
must be. If they weren't, they wouldn't be "ours," they'd be some(thing/one)
elses. 

Ok, batting average to 930.

>>We see no need to get married now.
>
>See a lawyer. 

I started laughing when I read that. Just the right ominous tone...  935.

>>We do not have enough money to pay for insurance, school, and the baby.
>
>Sure you do. You just don't know what you are going to go without, yet.

Whoops --920. That may be a quantum leap given the information we were
given in the post. Go back and read what he said gain. If it wasn't so
spooky, it would be funny.

Times have changed since we (guys like you and I) were that age. I'm 45
now, and life WAS quite a bit easier.

>I paid for the second one out of my own pocket while working on a
>disk drive assembly line in LA.

Yep, I was turning wrenches for a GM dealership. But that was us, and we
were working. He and his lady are in school and seemingly plan to stay there.
I just graduated after returning to school, and it was a back-breaker. For
the two of them to be in school, working, and raising a child --wow. That
could be a serious prelude to disaster, and not just for them...  --910.

>>We are a bit more confident now.
>>It is difficult to be confident when parents are unsupportive.
>>Remember that with your children.
>
>If you have to, tell your parents to buzz off. We did and moved away.

I find it absolutely appalling that anyone would make a statement like that
one. Set your average to 000. You know nothing of what it is that the parents
are saying, nothing of the way that they are interpreting what's being said
to them, and very little of their overall circumstances.

Yesterday, my daughter was telling me that I didn't love her because I was
insisting that she go to bed at 1:00 in the morning --she wanted to stay up
and watch movies all night. The previous night she was up until 1:00 --it's
spring break. Fun's fun, but there is a physical reality that needs to be
considered. Would you advise my daughter to tell me to buzz off because I was
looking out for her interests?

Perhaps the parents told them that they were against the kids blowing school.
Maybe what they said was that they would take the baby while they finished,
or maybe they made it clear that there was going to have to be compromises
about going to school to work it out... all of these could be interpreted as
the parents being unsupportive.

I think that this single statement unwinds everything you said before, and
will likely be the one that he takes with him. Shame on you.

>It was one of the best things we did.

I'm glad it worked for you, but what if that isn't how it goes for the boy,
the girl, and their baby? What if it's your advice that sets them on their
course?

>>Does anyone object to this situation?
>
>No problem with the situation.  You have been handed a golden 
>opportunity.  Your future is in your hands to make of it what
>you will.  GOD BLESS.

This situation has more problems than a math book. 


-- 
Bob Kirkpatrick                      "If you do anything to hurt them, I'll
Dog Ear'd Systems of Spokane, WA      hit you so hard your dog will bleed."
root@dogear.spk.wa.us                                              --dutch
Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens