HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: agwiii@fang.att.com (Grayson Walker (660-7949)(12/92))
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: F1: world sport?
Date: 2 Sep 92 14:51:30 GMT
Article-I.D.: fang.1992Sep2.145130.20597
Organization: CHC Management Consulting, Maitland FL

>>>>And remember, F1 is a world sport and this is a world net. 
>>
>>>Wrong, F1 is a European sport.
>
This year we have races in South Africa, Mexico, Brazil, Canada, Japan, and
Australia; six races out of sixteen. We have a *MAJOR* engine supplier from
Japan (Honda) with potential for more. We have a *MAJOR* engine supplier in
FORD. Question is, with multinational corporations, how do you assign
nationality? Could Ford UK do something against the wishes of Ford USA? 

Mmmm, tires. Same question as Ford. Is Goodyear a USA corporation or ??????

Mmmmm, drivers. Since 1906, there have been periods where either nations or
continents seemed to dominate the competition. Today, we have a top rank
from Brazil and another from England.

Mmmmm, sponsors. Marlboro and Camel come to mind. Aren't they from
North Carolina?

F1 a European sport, yes. A South American Sport, yes. An American Sport,
yes. A Japanese Sport, yes. An Australian Sport, yes. A South African
Sport, yes. In addition to all this, are there clearly national forms of
racing that also exist, YES!

-- 
Grayson Walker                                           CHC, Maitland, Florida 
Forza!                                            Internet: agwiii@fang.att.com
Voice: 407 660 7949                        Big brown river..... Tuli Kupferberg
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: uemura@isl.melco.co.jp (Joe Uemura)
Subject: Other rumors (Was F1 News: Patrese to Benetton! (Brundle dropped))
Organization: Mitsubishi Electric, Ofuna, Kanagawa, Japan
	<92238.214645A735FJO@HASARA11.BITNET>
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 11:44:07 GMT

In article <92238.214645A735FJO@HASARA11.BITNET> A735FJO@HASARA11.BITNET writes:

 |In article <92237.010151A735FJO@HASARA11.BITNET>, <A735FJO@HASARA11.BITNET>
 |says:
 |>
 |>From Dutch 'Teletekst' (Videotext):
 |>Patrese will drive for Benetton next year.
 |>The other driver will be Schumacher, so Brundle will
 |>be dropped.
 |>

Some Japanese newspapers also mentioned that Berger has signed with Ferrari.
Furthermore, apparently Ferrari now is going after Schumacher; the rumor is
that if they can get Schumacher, they will drop Alesi. Looks like we are
up to some major changes next year.

Joe
From: tvp53202@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Toby Vaughn Padfield)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: F1: No Williams for Senna in 93
Date: 1 Sep 92 18:19:37 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.Btww8q.1E
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

Juan Jose Mata <jmb3+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:

>> 	What do you mean by Benetton's barnard design? John Barnard left
>> Benetton after the '91 season, went to Toyota, and now is with Ferrari
>> again!! He had no influence on the Benetton B192. The chances of Senna
>> going to Benetton are about slim and none!!

>I'm sorry if I got this wrong, but isn't the B192 chasis the one John
>Barnard designed for Benetton. I mean, even after any modifications made
>by today's Benetton engineers, wasn't the 'shark design' as some people
>called it in Europe Barnards?

	No, the B192 was not designed by John Barnard!!!!!!!!!! Last year's
B191 was. This year's car designer is Ross Brawn, who designed the XJR-14
for Tom Walkinshaw and jaguar. Rory Byrne also contributed heavily to its
final development. yes, Barnard started the shark nose, but this year's
car is quite a bit different than last year's. Read the article about the
B192 in the July issue of RACER. If you can't, I'll post it.


>		- J.J.


>#################################################
>#     Juan Jose Mata <jmb3+@Andrew.CMU.EDU>     # 
>#     Carnegie Mellon University - Freshman     # 
>#     Electrical and Computer Engineering       # 
>#-----------------------------------------------# 
>#     Go L.A. Dodgers !   Go L.A. Kings !       # 
>#     Go L.A. Lakers !    Go S. F. 49ers !      #  
>#               ! Hala Madrid !                 # 
>#################################################

>"How terrible is wisdom when it brings no profit to the wise, Johnny."
>				-Louis Cyphre (Lucifer)
>				 (Robert DeNiro in Alan Parker's Angel Heart)



TOBY PADBERG...
From: pete@minster.york.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Latest F1 Silly Season Rumour:
Date: 27 Aug 92 09:52:35 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of York, England
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

This week's _Autosport_ has possibly the best silly-season rumour to date:
Mark Blundell (formerly of Brabham, and currently a McLaren test driver) has
been linked with the second seat at McLaren for 1993. 

I think Mark deserves the drive - he started to get last year's unwieldly
Brabham working quite well and has worked hard at testing. Provided McLaren
have a decent engine for next season (please, Honda, MAKE UP YOUR MIND AND
TELL US WHAT'S HAPPENING!) I think he will do well -- certainly at least as
well as Brundle and Herbert. 

Now, wonder who'll give Perry McCarthy a proper F1 drive... if anyone
_deserves_ it...

pete
--
*Peter Fenelon -- Research Associate -- Software Safety Assessment Procedures*
Dept. of Computer Science, University of York, York, Y01 5DD (+44/0)904 433388
EMAIL: pete@minster.york.ac.uk `There's no room for enigmas in built up areas'
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: lallo@stsci.edu (Matthew D. Lallo,622,4577)
Subject: Logical fallacy (was Re: Rahal/Johansson/Mario/Tracy
Reply-To: lallo@stsci.edu
Organization: Space Telescope Science Institute, Baltimore MD
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 20:36:57 GMT

Millam Tackitt cunningly writes:

>How many of you critics have ever been in Indy car competition, from what
>I've read here you are all just arm chair Indycar racers. When you are in
>the cockpit of one of these rockets in competition and never make a mistake
>or mis-judgement then you will have some room to criticize these people.
>Till then you should just SHUT-UP!!!
>
>

Dan writes:

>Give me a break...Who gives a shit if we are armchair racers, thats
>what this group is all about. DISCUSSION.

[stuff deleted]

> But if you are telling me that you never state your opinion of 
>something that you have not done, then you live in a very boring world. 



Thats right Dan. Not only that but Millams little bit of rhetoric there
is something that pops up in this newgroup (and I'm sure others) with
surprising regularity. It is almost always word-for-word the same
thing. Unfortunately it is completely invalid logically. Though
rhetorically, lawyers employ it quite often so I guess Willam's in
"good" company eh? Fact is, it's been known since the Greeks that we
need not know ANYTHING about the criticizer in order to evaluate the
criticism. It is quite foolish to say "criticism X is invalid because
criticizer X is not a practicing expert in the area in which he is
criticizing."

Need I be a world class chef to speak to one about a meal containing 
less than perfectly fresh seafood?

Need I be able to build a car to assess shoddy construction?

Need I be able to high jump 12 feet to observe an Olympian's mistake?

You get the idea.

Matt


Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: johnf@apollo.hp.com (John Francis)
Subject: Re: Schumacher fanatics
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 15:32:26 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA

In article <BtyDJ6.By9@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca> dp54@mc4adm.UWaterloo.ca (Rob Silcher) writes:
>In article <thos.715387148@suite.sw.oz.au> thos@suite.sw.oz.au (Thomas Cohen) writes:
>>In <3380046@hpcc01.corp.hp.com> boell@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Donald P Boell) writes:
>>
>>>Schumacher is an up and coming star, yet his career could be ended in an 
>>>incident such as occured in Hungary.
>>
>>Oh puleeeze! Give it a break.
>>-- 
>
>Yeah, losing your rear wing couldn't ever result in a dangerous accident.
>

Come on guys, find another excuse - not even Schumacher blames
Brundle for running into the back of him and weakening the wing.

Even better - take this fanaticism somewhere else.  It's as bad
as the "Did!  Didn't!! Did!!! Didn't!!!!" Prost-Senna wars from
a few years ago.  You won't convince anyone who disagrees with
you, so all you manage to do is annoy those who don't care.
-- 
John Francis                                johnf@apollo.hp.com
Seen passing on the net:  Spotted Owl - the *other* white meat!
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: bob@ncube.com (Bob Kehoe)
Subject: Bush at Daytona
Organization: nCUBE Computers, Beaverton, Oregon, U.S.A.
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 16:20:57 GMT

On PITSTOP last nite, MRN announcer Fred Armstrong managed
to get out this funny (imo) anecdote from George Bush's
appearance at the July NASCAR race at Daytona Intl':

Security was really tight for everyone, as can be expected.
MRN's Alan Bestwick (who does the "nascar today") show, 
arranged to do a quick interview with Mr. Bush.  Basically
it was one of these "you may interview him at 10:32.20 am
or whatever.

Finally Alan's time was at hand.  He asked a few questions
of Bush, then wrapped it up with the following question -
"Mr. President, you were a WWII fighter pilot.  Would you
ever consider climbing into one of these race cars?"

(Fred now goes into his best Dana Carvy impersonation)

Mr. Bush replies:  "Nope, couldn't do that....wouldn't be
prudent"

Well.....I thought it was funny.

-c'ball-

From: raineyd@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Dan Rainey)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 16:07:01 GMT
Subject: Re: looking for mini stocks
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport

Just in case some one reads the note and knows me 3i is a misprint Im the
owner/driver of car 38
From: wilson@mailhost.aa.cad.slb.com (David Wilson)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Schumacher fanatics
Date: 2 Sep 92 19:06:29 GMT
Organization: Schlumberger CAD/CAM; Ann Arbor, Michigan (USA)

In article <BtyJ63.B5x@apollo.hp.com> johnf@apollo.hp.com (John Francis) writes:
>
>Come on guys, find another excuse - not even Schumacher blames
>Brundle for running into the back of him and weakening the wing.
>
Actually, according to AutoWeek, Schumacher DID blame Brundle in private,
and then said the opposite to the media.  I take this as further evidence
that Schumacher is indeed going to go far -- only one full season and
already he can play the political games.  F1 is "maturing" him very
rapidly.

Dave Wilson
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: bob@ncube.com (Bob Kehoe)
Subject: Re: Bubba (NASCAR)
Organization: nCUBE Computers, Beaverton, Oregon, U.S.A.
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 18:53:21 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.153007.17898@stsci.edu> lallo@stsci.edu writes:

(Comments deleted)

Matt, I hear what you're saying.  I certainly can't agree with
everything you say, particularly regarding NASCAR and what the
fan's (who buy the tickets, etc, etc) want, but I still see what
you're getting at.  My biggest problem over the years in social-
circles (generic) is that as soon as I happen to mention my
interests in motorsports, people tend to back off a bit, perhaps
as you say stereotyping me into their misconceptions of race fans.
I'd probably get more reception in this day and age to tell them
I snort coke for recreation.

Matt, you want us to change attitudes and perceptions through our
own individual efforts, but failed to offer any suggestions.

-c'ball-
From: esprit@netcom.com (Alan F. Perry)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Senna coming to Comas' aid (Re: Rahal has a big mouth)
Date: 31 Aug 92 20:16:24 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

ngoldber@nyx.cs.du.edu (norm goldberg) writes:
>     As well,did you guys see who rushed to Eric Comas' aide after his
>huge accident at spa? It was none other than his highness Senna.He stopped
>on the track and leapt out of his car to help comas.I Guess he is human
>after all! Well,it was nice to see some commaraderie for once from the
>heartless world of F1.
>

This is not the first time Senna has stopped to help after a big
accident.  He also did this when   Martin Donnelley had his BIG crash
at Spain in 1990.  Did he also do this during 1991?

alan
From: nicos@csa.bu.edu (Nicos Kontopoulos)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Patrese VS Schumacher
Date: 4 Sep 92 17:03:27 GMT
Article-I.D.: bu.95369
Reply-To: nicos@cs.bu.edu (Nicos Kontopoulos)
Organization: Computer Science Department, Boston University, Boston, MA, USA


(I just wanted to clarify my last post, which I cancelled).


Can anyone confirm that Patrese will be #2 to Schumacher at Benetton in 1993?
I *KNOW* that Patrese and Schumacher will be driving for Benetton,
the question is on the #1/#2 vs equal status of the drivers.

Someone mentioned that Patrese will be #2, but I seriously doubt it...


Thanks,


-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
   Nicos Kontopoulos                             Voice: (617) 787-1780
   INTERnet: nicos@cs.bu.edu                    BITnet: ecolpqc@buacca
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: roberto@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (roberto)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: World or national series?
Date: 26 Aug 92 10:11:20 GMT
Organization: Glasgow University Computing Science Dept.
X-Mailer: mail-news 2.0.5

Tom Haapanen (tomh@wes.on.ca) writes:

|    * Formula 1 has races in 11 European countries (OK, so we'll say 10
|      races in the EC, plus one in close by in Hungary, almost as close
|      as Canada).  There are also races in Brazil, Mexico, Canada, Japan
|      and Australia.

You missed South Africa. Actually, there are 10 races in Europe (not 
necessarily in the EC).

| 2. * IndyCar has mostly American drivers, with a growing overseas contin-
|      gent.  Of the top 10 drivers, eight are American, one Brazilian and
|      one Canadian.
|     
|    * Formula 1 has a variety of drivers, with a large Italian contingent.
|      Of the top 10 drivers, seven are from EC countries (Britain, Italy and
|      France), with others from Brazil, Austria and Finland.

Who are "the" top 10 F1 drivers for you?
This might be a good subject for discussion.

Roberto Barros
From: unglenie@ford.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J Unglenieks)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Rahal has a big mouth
Date: 1 Sep 92 04:49:23 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

In article <1992Aug31.193617.25402@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> ngoldber@nyx.cs.du.edu (norm goldberg) writes:
>
>     Can you believe the nerve of Rahal to say that he is the championship
>leader and you don't race him because of that very reason!? 

I kind of agree with you here.  If drivers aren't allowed to pass the series
point leader, Emmo would have won the championship on day one.....

>     Personally that is what i feel makes the europeans much better
>drivers.They give 100% and never give an inch to anybody regardless of who
>they racing.They come from a much tougher school.Right now the only guy i
>can see capable of driving with the F1 boys is Micheal A. Little Al is
>just to nice.

Obviously you've never seen Mr. Unser on dirt.........

Rob U, wishes my family was rich so they could buy me a ride in (insert series)
--
-       Rob Unglenieks             REAL race cars DON'T wear BOWTIES       -
-     "Our task must be to free ourselves by widening our circle           -
-      of compassion to embrace all living creatures."                     -
-                           -  Albert Einstein                             -
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: hallam@zeus02.desy.de (Phill Hallam-Baker)
Subject: Re: Schumacher fanatics
Reply-To: Hallam@zeus02.desy.de
Organization: Deutsches Elektronen Synchrotron, Experiment ZEUS bei HERA
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 13:49:26 GMT

In article <1992Sep2.190629.2335@aa.cad.slb.com>, wilson@mailhost.aa.cad.slb.com
(David Wilson) writes:
|>In article <BtyJ63.B5x@apollo.hp.com> johnf@apollo.hp.com (John Francis)
|>writes:
|>>
|>>Come on guys, find another excuse - not even Schumacher blames
|>>Brundle for running into the back of him and weakening the wing.
|>>
|>Actually, according to AutoWeek, Schumacher DID blame Brundle in private,
|>and then said the opposite to the media.  I take this as further evidence
|>that Schumacher is indeed going to go far -- only one full season and
|>already he can play the political games.  F1 is "maturing" him very
|>rapidly.

Perhaps he did thought Brundle to blame but did not want to start a public
slanging match?

--

Phill Hallam-Baker
From: conrad@pico.OZ (Conrad Drake)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: US motorsport exports. Was Re: Proposal: rec.autos.formula1
Date: 1 Sep 92 06:42:14 GMT
Reply-To: conrad@pico.qpsx.oz.au
Organization: QPSX Communications
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

bspahh@gdr.bath.ac.uk (Andrew Henry) writes:
: In article <1992Aug25.173521.708@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov> cornutt@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov (David Cornutt) writes:
: >lallo@stsci.edu (Matthew D. Lallo,622,4577) writes:
: 
: >>And remember, F1 is a world sport and this is a world net. 
: >
: >Wrong, F1 is a European sport.  
: 
: I prefer F1 is multinational, Indycars are international, F3000 is European.

   I believe F1 is world wide (since when have Brazil, Canada, Japan,
South Africa, Australia and Detroit been parts of a country called
"Europe"?).   F3000 is international and Indy has some races run outside
the USoA.

: 
: The UK has imported karting, drag racing and stock car racing from the
: US for start. 
 And the US has imported modern open wheelers.  (Every heard of Jim
Clark?)

: >Obviously, the things that have been successful in Europe are very
: >different from what has been successful in the U.S.  How did things
: >evolve this way?  Why, for instance, is there so much oval track racing
: >in the U.S. and Australia, 

Stock car?  If you mean "Nascar" there is one, lone track that is owned
& run by one individual.   If you mean "speedway" (on dirt) it's
imported (into Aust) from Britain.

: I think you have to let the French take the credit for starting road
: racing at the turn of the century.  Brooklands and Indy just about tie
: for the first significant purpose-built race track.  I think the
: first hillclimb was up La Turbie near Monaco in ~ 1901.
: 
Anyone care to remember what the initials "G.P." stand for?

But where did the first "touring car" race start?  Was it Italy, Brazil,
or Cal->Mexico?

-- 
"There's something stirring in my loins and it isn't the spirit of Jesus"
                - Helen Razor, JJJ announcer, 1992.

Email: conrad@pico.qpsx.oz.au
Snail: QPSX Communications, Private Bag 24, West Perth 6005, Australia. 
Numbers:(ph) +61 9 324 1641, (fx) +61 9 321 2984 (dod) 0604

Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: alan@ernest.dseg.ti.com (Alan Edmonds)
Subject: Re: Rahal/Johansson/Mario/Tracy
Organization: Texas Instruments, Inc. - Plano, Tx
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 01:44:31 GMT

In article <5470@naucse.cse.nau.edu> met@naucse.cse.nau.edu (Millam Tackitt) writes:
>How many of you critics have ever been in Indy car competition, from what
>I've read here you are all just arm chair Indycar racers. When you are in
>the cockpit of one of these rockets in competition and never make a mistake
>or mis-judgement then you will have some room to criticize these people.
>Till then you should just SHUT-UP!!!
>Millam E. Tackitt

I don't mean to fan the fire, but I sorta like to hear what people have to
say.  That's way communication is all about (big :-) ).  If the 
discussion was limited to format/current CART competitors, the
newsgroup would be devoid of activity.  I know several 
readers are active racers (and corner workers, etc) in other series, 
and their knowledge and opinions are valuable to me.  I think
I would rather watch a race with some of the posters than 
Paul "Mr. Always Excited" Page.

Anyway, I'm not much of a Rahal fan, and I thought it was 
a case of brain-fade for him to flame Stefan.  I guess
Stefan might have been trying to win the race?  No, probably
not; he must have benn going for the championship.  That's
the only reason anyone is out there, right?

On a side note, it's is unfortunate that the punter 
can usually continue but the puntee frequently is out 
for the race.  I would like to see more racing with the 
press-on-regardless viewpoint of the rules (baring safety
problems).  

-- 
Alan Edmonds                                     Texas Instruments, Inc.
I don't speak for TI; TI doesn't speak for me    M/S 8513
Work phone: (214)575-6427                        6620 Chase Oaks Blvd.
Email: alan@ernest.dseg.ti.com                   Plano, Texas  75023
From: jjn@cbjjn.cb.att.com (Jeff Nappi)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: IMSA (Jaguar)
Date: 27 Aug 92 13:08:15 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: AT&T Bell Labs

In article <183220@pyramid.pyramid.com>, paulg@pyramid.COM (Paul Griffiths) writes:
|> 	To add insult to injury by giving Nissan, Mazda and Jag more
|> weights next year, while leaving Toyota alone is not going to make
|> for an exciting season..(and as you pointed out James...is probaly
|> gonna drive teams out of the sport).  IMSA needs to re-examine how
|> it assigns' weights and start doing what they say the do.  Use the
|> weights to make racing close...
|> 			-PaulG
|> 
|> Going fast is easy, it's stopping that's the hard part.

How could they possibly add more weight to the new Mazdas, I know this
is the first season for the Mazdas but what justification did they
come up with to add more weight, I don't recall Mazda being anywhere
near challenging for a win this year. Last year IMSA slapped a 100lbs
on the GTO Mazdas during the middle of the season and nearly cost
Mazda a manufactures title, this year the Toyotas are not just dominating
the field they are winning races by laps yet no added weights, I remember
when Porche was dominating it seemed like every other weekend IMSA was
slapping weight penalties on them. There is a real fowl smell in IMSA 
this year and they better clean-up there act.

If you really want to see screwed up rules and weights take a look at the
IMSA Bridgestone Supercar Series. 
-- 
Jeff Nappi
Columbus Bell Labs
jjn@cbjjn.att.com
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: cjp53999@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Cory James Padfield)
Subject: U.S. maufacturers
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 03:40:35 GMT

    Lately, there has been a thread about U.S. race car makers, or the
lack of them. Someone even said that Hercules made the MP4 series here in
the U.S. I don;t think that is right. I thought that Hercules was a 
supplier a while back, and so, gave McLaren unfinished carbon-fibre for
them (McLaren) to make their car in Great Britain with their own autoclave.
Maybe I have this all wrong, but I don't think so. Anyway, now McLaren
is sponsored by Courtaulds, so it doesn't even matter anymore. So, does
any one have any extra info. That would most appreciated. 

Regards,
Cory