HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sarwate@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Sanjiv Sarwate)
Subject: Re: Holocaust
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Distribution: soc
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 19:18:31 GMT

h2m@vax5.cit.cornell.edu (JA) writes:

>Ok, 
>do you all remember the big deal earlier this year when some guy, (i forget 
>his name and I don't have the paper in front of me) ran an ad (or tried to) in 
>papers across the nation claiming that the Holocaust of WWII was not as 
>widespread or atrocious as everybody made it out to be?  

Yeah.  The guy's name was Bradley Smith, for the "Committee for Open Debate
on the Holocaust".             

>Well, if you don't remember, it happened.  And a lot of people were upset, not 
>only with the guy that placed the ad, but with the newspapers that agreed to 
>run it.  Some national papers did, some didn't and a whole debate sprang up 
>about freedom of speech and wether or not the papers have a moral obligation 
>to keep such ads them deem offensive out of their papers.

I don't even think it was an issue of offensiveness.  As one of my history
professors pointed out, the ad was a total piece of untruth.  There is no
historical controversy here.  It was, in my eyes, the equivalent of running
an ad saying the Earth is flat.  It is just not a debatable issue.  And to
imply that the Holocaust was a myth is to denigrate the lives of those who
died in the camps.

>Anyway:

>He has another ad ready to run along the same lines as the previous one.  It 
>has already been sent to papers around the nation.  Here at Cornell, the Daily 
>Sun  ('Ithaca's only Morning Daily') has decided not to run this ad, even 
>though they ran the first one.  The ed-board decided unanimously that they 
>should protect the Cornell community from such statements they feel we can not 
>read, interpret and understand by ourselves. Apparently we have lost our 
>ability to make our own decisions and choices since the begining of the 
>semester.  Or the Sun is a bunch of hypocrites.  Or it could be something else

Well, again, I think this is a good move.  A paper has no obligation to print
total untruths, and in this case, it would be doing so.  End of Discussion.



>so here's the real point of this post:

>Have any of the rest your respective schools/ papers printed this ad, or had 
>any debate about it?  PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE REPLY.... I'M TIRED OF SEEING THE 
>WORD FRATERNITY.

Our local paper did not run the last ad, but did run an article by the same
guy in the "Editorials" section, thus implying that the idea that the 
Holocaust never happened has some historical/intellectual validity, that it
is an issue which can be debated.  It is not. 

>later...
>justin



-- 
Sanjiv Sarwate		sarwate@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu	SANJIV@UIUCVMD
"We all thought one could treat history like one experiments in physics. The
difference is that in physics one can repeat the experiment a thousand times,
but in history, only once."  -Arthur Koestler, DARKNESS AT NOON
From: 01sybok@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Re:fraternities
Date: 17 Apr 92 12:07:55 GMT
Followup-To: soc.college
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

In article <1992Apr15.181527.13739@midway.uchicago.edu>, thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank) writes:
> Follow-ups out of alt.folklore.college
> 
> In article <1992Apr15.104232.5072@ac.dal.ca> 01sybok@ac.dal.ca writes:
>>My right to freedom of association is guaranteed by both the Canadian and 
>>American Constitutions. I can associate with whom I please when I am living 
>>my private life. Neither you nor anyone else can dictate with whom I spend
>>time. *That* was my point.
> 
> The United States Supreme Court has held that fraternity membership is
> not protected by the Constitution should a college choose to regulate it.
> You have freedom of association to choose to go to a college that doesn't
> have the sense to abolish fraternities.
> -- 
But as long as I attend one of those colleges, my right is guaranteed. Correct?
BTW, Ted, I think its boiled down to you and I and a *very* few others who
read/post to this thread. I really think we are boring everyone else. For the
sake of the sanity of everyone here on the net, why don't we continue this
email?
Mike
From: smaurer@artin.helios.nd.edu (sean maurer)
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Miami of Ohio
Date: 14 Apr 92 18:04:42 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Notre Dame, Notre Dame

As I remember from applying there last year they have two engineering
programs paper and materials  and  manufacturing engineering. I don't
know anything about so called programs with Case Western etc but IMHO
a school with only two engineering schools is not a great option, what
if you change your mind from materials to electronic? You'll have to 
change schools.  Miami's business school is great and its social life
is among the best in the country (from what I have heard and seen, on
over twenty visits.i.e. Green beer day where they start drinking 5cent
brews at 5;00 am and beer goes up 5 cents each hour.) I wouldn't 
recommend Miami for Engineering. I was only going to go there if I decided
to major in Business.

BTW We have no frats here at ND and I personally think that is a shame.
The social life that frats create is not appreciated I think. Other than
that I think the whole frat debate is out of hand and the few zealots left
should carry on through email. 

"...if you wish to strive for peace of sould and pleasure, then believe;
if you wish to be a devotee of truth, then inquire..." Nietzsche


--
Sean Maurer smaurer@artin.helios.nd.edu
From: noah@coos.dartmouth.edu (Noah Cole)
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Pomona College E-Mail Access?
Date: 8 Apr 92 02:20:02 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

Hi there! I have a friend who is serriously looking at Pomona college and I
have been talking to him.  Does anyone know what type of e-mail they have there
and what facilities are like (Networking that is).  Thanks is advance

-Noah Cole
--
Noah.Cole@Dartmouth.Edu - noah@coos.dartmouth.edu - aj909@cleveland.freenet.edu
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
             "And monkeys might fly out of my butt!"- Wayne Campbell
             "I don't know how do say what's got to be said"- U2
From: 01sybok@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Re: fraternities
Date: 17 Apr 92 11:55:08 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

> 
> Indeed, one which Ethan Miller and I very nicely refuted.  You're talking
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Now, *there's* material for a flame! I'm not gonna, though it's tempting.

> about a huge gap here, one which is either being caused by fraternities
> being much more likely to rape or fraternity rapes being much more likely
> to be reported.  Given the sociological and psychological studies on the
                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> issue, there's a lot of support for the former and I have yet to see any
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> support for the latter (and in fact, I've seen evidence that the
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> reverse is true, that fraternity rapes are *less* likely to be reported.)
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Ted, I'll say it before, and I'll say it again. Where is the evidence?!?!?
You haven't cited a single study. In fact, the only study I've seen on 
this net was cited by someone else, and it is currently under fire!
> 

>>Second, the statement states they were "reported sexual assaults"
>>rather than "people convicted of a sexual assault."  Thus this
>>statistic is not too useful for determining my inclination to commit
>>rape, just the inclination of someone for percieveing it as such.
> 
> Cross-apply the arguments Ethan and I made about the nature of
> reported rapes.  If anything, as I've explained before, it's *less*
> likely that the fraternity rape will be perceived as such.

Why, Ted? You give no evidence, no support for your arguments!

> In addition, we've seen both a law student and
> a lawyer on this thread explain why it is well-nigh close to impossible
> of getting a conviction for a fraternity rape, which is a huge chunk of
> the reason why they're a problem -- if fraternities were held accountable
> for the rapes they committed, it wouldn't be half of the problem it is.

The problem is, neither of you explained adequately; neither of you cited
specific cases in which your points appeared. Frankly, Ted, until you
come up with some cases in which what you describe happened, I'm not
going to believe you.
> 

Mike
From: mjm7541@tamsun.tamu.edu (Michael Joseph Mattox)
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Re: fraternities
Date: 15 Apr 92 16:52:42 GMT
Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station


I recall when statistics showing that fraternities/sororities
had higher GPA's that these numbers were questioned because
wealth=higher GPA etc., etc.

Then I would assume that the crime statistics associated with 
fraternites have the same flaws called into question regarding 
the higher GPA.

Comments anyone?

-- 
 Mike Mattox    mjm7541@tamsun.tamu.edu
From: 01sybok@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Re: fraternities
Date: 16 Apr 92 23:33:45 GMT
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

In article <1992Apr14.172812.1816@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, weird@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (john.t.erhardt) writes:
> In article <cdukYxq00WB9MxSnpE@andrew.cmu.edu> es2q+@andrew.cmu.edu (Erik Warren Selberg) writes:
>>
>>Now, as has been stated in every other message in this thread, there
>>will always be some fraternities comprised primarily of assholes, and
>>there will always be some fraternities comprised primarily of cool
>>people.  Therefore, DON'T GENERALIZE!  If you have a specific beef
>>with a specific chapter / local system, fine.  Maybe they are a bunch
>>of assholes.  However, please try not do make your argument universal,
>>as I'm getting quite annoyed at the fact that people are telling me
>>that I'm 5 times more likely than some schleppy off the street to
>>commit a rape, just because I live in a fraternity.
> 
> But you are X number of times more likely to rape.  I dont know
> much about statistics but they do seem to quatify those things in life
> that are easily generalized.  As long as the statistical analysis is done
> by a reputable firm, professor, or committee, we should have good reason
> to believe their findings are true.  And since history repeats itself,
> I conclude that as fraternity members have raped in the past, they will
> rape again.
> 
> We're not generalizing here, we're (at least I am) basing our conclusions
> on evidence.  This includes the the university of Illinois study which 
> I heard on a documentary.
> 
> John Erhardt
However, by your reasoning, because you are male, you are 9 times more 
likely to commit rape than a woman. *I* could conclude, then, that you
are a potential rapist. All the first poster asks is for you not to generalize.
It's really easy to turn that generalization around
Mike
Newsgroups: soc.college
From: wasylik@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Michael Wasylik)
Subject: Re: GROW UP
Organization: Ministry of Propaganda
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 07:46:06 GMT

In article <1992Apr6.212012.26705@midway.uchicago.edu> thf2@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>In article <1992Apr5.155651.7205@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> Isabelle.Marie-Anne.Rosso@dartmouth.edu (Isabelle Marie-Anne  Rosso) writes:
>>
>>      Well put Ron... I'm sure everyone has more interesting
>>contributions to make to this newsgroup than pointless, ridiculous,
>>un-interesting flames.
>
>Indeed.  In fact, I think that Isabelle and Ron should offer to
>co-moderate soc.college so that no one else will have to read any
>posts that they might not want to.  Then this newsgroup will be perfect.
>
>-- Ted "For you, at least" Frank

Amazing... Ted and I agree.  Look, if you don't want to listen to the debate
(squabble, disagreement, catfight, whatever)  then hit your K key (which just
might delete the entire thread! gasp!) or do us all a favor and unsubscribe
completely.



-- 
Mw

[ Michael Wasylik                     ><    There goes the                 ]
[ wasylik@casbah.acns.nwu.edu         ><    neighborhood...                ]
Newsgroups: soc.college
From: nrw69@cas.org (;A/3G)
Subject: European excursion
Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service, Columbus, Ohio
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 00:13:40 GMT

Hi everyone.  I'm a senior at Ohio State and am interested in taking some
time before entering the real world and going to Europe or some other foreign
locale.  What I need is some info on things such as youth hostels, inter-
national passenger trains, etc.  If anyone has such information or any ideas
on how to go about getting it, it would be much appreciated.  If possible,
please respond via e-mail.

					Thanks

					Nick
					nrw69@cas.org
Xref: sparky soc.college:2043 soc.women:9115 talk.rape:944
From: 01sybok@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: soc.college,soc.women,talk.rape
Subject: Re: fraternities
Date: 17 Apr 92 12:05:11 GMT
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

In article <1992Apr15.172413.11204@midway.uchicago.edu>, thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank) writes:
> Taking this out of alt.folklore.college.
> 
> In article <1992Apr15.093914.5063@ac.dal.ca> 01sybok@ac.dal.ca writes:
>>I read somewhere that 80% of rapes are committed by someone the victim knows. 
>>I would think that a rape by a stranger might be reported more often than an
>>aquaintence rape. I would also think that rape 
>>via stranget might be what we're 
>>talking about at fraternity parties is more likely, and therefore the kind 
>>more likely to be reported. 
> 
> But in that very same post that you attack, there's a study showing that
> all-male social organizations like fraternities/athletic teams commit
> half of all acquaintance rapes.  (Just about all fraternity rapes fit
> within the description of acquaintance rapes, incidentally.)
> 
Half of all *reported* acquaintence rapes, Ted. My point (which I think you 
missed) was that there may be a connection or phenomenon that causes
rapes by fraternity men/athletes to be reported.

> Certainly we can, given that we have a sense of which rapes are more likely
> to be reported.  And there have been a number of studies done on precisely
                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> this point.  And the null hypothesis that fraternity rapes are no more
  ^^^^^^^^^^
> likely to be reported than other rapes is not at all unreasonable.

Cite them, Ted. This is the third time I've said it. Your null hypothesis
is just that, a hypothesis, and idea with *no data whatsoever*. Because
you are male, and males are 9 times more likely to rape than females, I
could form a null hypothesis that you are a rapist, but with no data, the
hypothesis is just that, a hypothesis. 
> 
>>I also think trying to peg rapes to one group is dangerous; it leads
>>to the idea that rapes are perpetrated by some groups and not others.
> 
> No, it leads to the idea that some rapes are more likely to be perpetrated
> by some groups.  Which, if it's true, as in the case of fraternities, it's
> far more dangerous to ignore the issue or pretend it's not there.
> 

In my opinion, it'l lead to a witchhunt, in which some people are accused
of a crime, base on the people they associate with, while the real criminals
are permitted to continue their crimes undetected.

>>I think instead of following stupid threads about who perpertrates more
>>rapes than who, we ought to work together to change attitudes.
> 
> I also agree that we should change attitudes.  And when there's an
> institution that perpetuates these attitudes, we should do something about it.
> -- 
So... do something about it, Ted! Hold a date rape seminar. Conduct a study.
Talk to rape victims. Put your money where your voluminous postings are.
If you are so concerned, why not be part of the solution, instead of screaming
here on the net?

Mike
From: tgpt_ltd@creb.cc.rochester.edu (Tom Guptill)
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Re: Sorority/Fraternity crap!
Date: 14 Apr 92 20:54:02 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Rochester (Rochester, NY)

In article <1992Apr14.013304.22962@oz.plymouth.edu> s_ritz@oz.plymouth.edu (Scott A. Ritz) writes:
>
>the various Greeks who post on the net. This spring, my ex-girlfriend
>decide to pledge for a sorority at her school in upstate New York. I
>oppsed her decision vehemently because of my distaste and disgust for
>the Greek system in general. I finally gave in, and I trusted her to

	Oh, I'm glad that you had enough respect for her to "give in" and
allow her to make her own decision.

--
|Thomas Guptill     | University of Rochester Class of 1995                |
|CPU Box 277445     | INet:  tgpt_ltd@uhura.cc.rochester.edu               |
|Rochester, NY 14627| Mom:   aprint::wins%'tgpt_ltd@uhura.cc.rochester.edu'|
|(716) 274-3378     | Jess:  tgpt_ltd%uhura.cc.rochester.edu@husc3         |
From: harris@mathcs.emory.edu (John Harris (math grad stu))
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: looking for address of Cumberland College, KY
Date: 7 Apr 92 13:31:40 GMT
Reply-To: harris@mathcs.emory.edu
Distribution: usa
Organization: Emory University, Dept of Math and CS

I don't know if they have an address there, but if someone knows it, I would appreciate the info.  Thanks.

---
John Harris (math grad stu)
Emory University, Atlanta, GA 
Internet:  harris@mathcs.emory.edu		BITNET: harris@emory.bitnet
UUCP: {rutgers,ogicse,gatech}!emory!harris	

Newsgroups: soc.college
From: abbottad@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Andrew D Abbott)
Subject: Re: Winning it All!  NCAA
Reply-To: abbottad@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Andrew D Abbott)
Organization: Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 13:31:29 GMT

> In article <1992Apr2.231230.14978@cs.rose-hulman.edu>  
> erwinaw@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Anthony W Erwin) writes:
> > 	Does anyone have any stories of things that have happened at  
> > college campuses after their baketball team won the NCAA tournament?
> > 
> > 			Sincerely,
> > 			Tony Erwin
 I was up in Ann Arbor, at the University of Michigan, this weekend. As  
soon as the game was over there were people running in the streets,  
yelling and screaming, and generally going crazy. Everyone (it seemed like  
the whole campus) flooded onto S. University St., where police had blocked  
it off to traffic, and partied there all night. I wish I could go back up  
for the game tonight.

Hail to the Victors! GO BLUE!!
--
Andrew D. Abbott| Room BSB 213, phone (812) 877-8778
    Box 200     |    E-mail (NeXT mail accepted):
  Rose-Hulman   | abbottad@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu
 Inst. of Tech. +-----------------------------------
Terre Haute, IN | "If you seek a beautful penninsula,  
     47803      |  leave Terre Haute" - me
Newsgroups: soc.college,talk.rape,soc.women
From: peterson@CS.ColoState.EDU (james peterson)
Newsgroups: soc.college.grad
Subject: Re: Any Humanities Grads out there?
Date: 15 Apr 92 19:33:23 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department

In article <1992Apr14.213429.11240@eng.umd.edu> clin@eng.umd.edu (Charles Lin) writes:
>
>
>   I personally wouldn't use the word easier.  Maybe more certain.  One
>advantage and drawback of LA courses is that there is no right answer.
>Often, it's how well you argue the point.  I would hope that is the
>main judging point, but it sometimes isn't.  
> [stuff deleted]

While it may not have been intended, this observation leads to the
erroneous relativistic notion that all answers in the humanities are
of equal value because, as you put it, "there is no right answer."  
This is far too simplistic:  there are answers that are better,
and answers that are worse. Many students of technology come to be
convinced that any subject matter whose questions cannot be answered finally,
and with certainty, are valueless; but this is mere prejudice.  To be
sure, knowing that one cannot play the piano with perfection is not
reason not to try to play better, or not to play at all.  Some infinite
tasks are worth pursuing.....

>
>   I will agree that one detraction of LA is that it can be the case that
>you are simply trying to satisfy the prof. or grader.  I had some
>

Anyone who takes a course in order to "satisfy the prof. or grader" is
missing the point of education in general, and that course in particular.


-- 
james lee peterson				peterson@CS.ColoState.edu
dept. of computer science                       
colorado state university		"Some ignorance is invincible."
ft. collins, colorado  (voice:303/491-7137; fax:303/491-6639)
Newsgroups: soc.college.grad
From: wkl1@Ra.MsState.Edu (Wing-Keong Loke                                               the consummate chronic prevaricator)
Subject: Re: Any Humanities Grads out there?
Organization: Mississippi State University
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 21:33:46 GMT

In article <1992Apr13.171003.18664@blaze.cs.jhu.edu> callahan@biffvm.cs.jhu.edu (Paul Callahan) writes:
>kyee@bnlux1.bnl.gov (kenton yee) writes:
>
>Maybe not boast, but I've heard plenty of engineering students claim that
>literature or the arts are unimportant.  Also, there's certainly a prejudice
>that liberal arts majors are somehow intrinsically easier than technical majors.
>Paul Callahan   

	Which may be true in your case, but my friends sort of tell me
all the time how difficult the humanities are compared to the sciences.
From: butler18@wharton.upenn.edu
Newsgroups: soc.college.grad
Subject: Housing in Norwalk/Greenwich, Ct. Area
Date: 14 Apr 92 22:56:30 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

Does anyone know of cheap apartments for rent in the Norwalk, CT.
Area Starting in August?  Or are there people out there in Connecticut
who are looking for roomates?  E-mail me if interested..

Brian Butler
From: ghajj@dvorak.amd.com (Ghassan Hajj)
Newsgroups: soc.college.grad,soc.college.gradinfo
Subject: Re: CS Grad School E-mail list
Date: 15 Apr 92 19:15:39 GMT
Organization: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.; Austin, Texas

In article <1992Apr15.060743.1@fnalo.fnal.gov> jpxu1@fnalo.fnal.gov writes:
>In article <9204142219.AA05441@mammoth.Berkeley.EDU>, SSAMPSON%PVCS.decnet@PHYSICS.RICE.EDU ("PVCS::SSAMPSON") writes:
>> Hi folks,
>> 	Could some kind soul email me the list of CS grad school E-mail 
>> addresses ? Thanks in advance.
>> 
>> 			SAm..
>> P.S	My email address is 
>>                 Internet: ssampson@pvcs.pvamu.edu
>> 		DECnet:   PVCS::ssampson
>> 
>> 
>I know a while ago, there was a long list of e-mail addresses,  but I could
>not find my copy now.  If someone still have it, or another list,  I would
>very glad to get a copy too.  Thanks.   
> 
>my address is jpxu1@fnal.fnal.gov

I am interested in that list too (or EE grad school list ) If any one there
has the list , please post on this group.    thanks
From: finlay_j@spcvxb.spc.edu
Newsgroups: soc.college.grad
Subject: networks dealing with American Studies and/or English composition
Date: 10 Apr 92 21:51:52 GMT
Organization: St. Peter's College, US

Does anyone know of a network dealing with either of the following areas of 
interest: composition, composition theory, practise of English composition 
teaching; English Education; or, American Studies, American culture, U.S.
Studies, American Civilization Studies.

I'm writing my dissertation on the latter and would be glad to network with 
others in this area; but since I have also taught writing (composition) for the
last six years and have had my approach to American Studies greatly influenced 
by English Education methodologies, I'd also like to find people willing to
talk about these. Please e-mail at either of the following addresses:

			Finlayj@acfcluster.nyu.edu
			Finlay_j@spcvxa.spc.edu

Thanks in advance,

Jeff Finlay