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Approved-By:  Bill McGarry <wtm@SHELDEV.SHEL.ISC-BR.COM>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.l-hcap
Date:         Wed, 19 Aug 1992 01:31:51 EDT
Reply-To:     Bill McGarry <wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com>
From:         Bill McGarry <wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com>
Subject:      Handicap Digest # 2883
X-To:         LHCAP <l-hcap@VM1.NODAK.EDU>

                             THE HANDICAP DIGEST

                                 Issue # 2883

                         Wednesday, August 19, 1992

Today's Topics:


                                ******

                           Blink Talk Digest # 693

                          Re: Braille N Speak Compl
                        Re: Flipper may lead the way
                          Re: Braille N Speak Compl
                       Re: Warning!  Beware of Vendor
                         Re: Slimware Window Bridge
                           Tinytalk 1.20 is here!
                           Tinytalk 1.20 is here!
                         Re: Slimware Window Bridge
                          Re: Windows access maybe
                               Braille Manuals


                                ******


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Compuserve: 73170,1064

                              Bill McGarry (Moderator)
                              (203) 337-1518



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Subject: Re: Braille N Speak Compl
From: Keith.Bucher@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Keith Bucher)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/89.0 - BlinkLink, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 Quoting Chuck Hallenbeck to Keith Bucher  3 Aug 92 19:04:43

 CH> Glad to know you are just kidding. The TED600 comes in at about
 CH> $37,500 and I hear pretty bad things about it even at that price.

Hello Chuck, I have never seen the Ted, but have heard some things
about it as well.  Last fall there was a discussion over on Blindtalk
and supposedly the guy who invented the Ted-600 has his own printer
company and cranks out $15,000 or higher printers.  The name of his
company was, or maybe is, for that matter, Scientific Capital Corp.
 Never have heard of it anywhere else though, and David Andrews
 didn't think they were the most reliable company.  I don't have
 that much money, and wouldn't spend it all for a braille printer
 even if I did, but I sure would like to know whether they really
 exist.

CH> Cindy and I saw a demo of the Juliet today, and it does look
CH> interesting. It is actually slower than the RB40 unless it is
CH> doing interpoint,

Chuck, I think, what you're getting is 20 characters per second on
each side of the page, thus 40 CPI which include both sides of the
page.  Nearly like two rB-20s.

CH> The graphics are terrific.

I was told they are BookMaker graphics.  Actually, the Romeo's
graphics are similar, but I think the Juliet and BookMaker's are one
or two dots per line tighter, or maybe I should say tightly packed.
Of course the Juliet doesn't have a track record, but it should be
nearly as good as their other printers.  It may or may not be
significant, but it has only 8 solenoids, four per side, I assume.
By contrast, the Romeo rB-40 has nine and I believe the BookMaker has
22.  But who can afford $10,500.00 for a printer, right?  But that
BookMaker is sure a fine looking piece of equipment!  Steve Smith of
Omnichron, has a Romeo and they've used it to print out all the
Flippermanuals.  And I think it's held up for them.  It's interesting
that with the Juliet, you don't lose a sheet of paper.  And they're
supposed to come out with an option where you can use a
non-tractor feed single sheet of paper.  This too would be very
handy.  Is Porcia Hunley your salesperson?  I don't have her card
here in front of me, so may have her name spelled incorrectly, but
she was in Phoenix and, if I'm not mistaken, serves at least some of
the midwest.  Enabling has some maps, so you might want to get them to
or your salesperson to send a couple to you, one done on the Romeo, t
e other the Juliet.

CH> Our V-TEK does not have a graphics mode, and
CH> Turbo Braille grew up knowing only about the V-TEK. I may have
cH> to revive that old feature once again.

Chuck, for a better description of the graphics mode, you might want
to obtain a braille copy of the manual for the rB-40 and Juliet,
(which isn't available yet) because at least the one for the Romeo
goes in to detail about this.  If the graphics are indeed the same
for the BookMaker, its manual is likewise concise in this area.  I
have both manuals.  I love reading about the servicing of these
printers and about the service menu, etc.  You wouldn't believe the
thoroughness of these manuals unless you've seen them.  Keith.

... File not found. Should I fake it? (Y/N)

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!89.0!Keith.Bucher
Internet: Keith.Bucher@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Re: Flipper may lead the way
From: Keith.Bucher@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Keith Bucher)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/89.0 - BlinkLink, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 Quoting Patrick Gormley to Keith Bucher 04 Aug 92 15:30:00

 PG> Keith I've not seen the flipper demo but  my feeling is that my
 PG> screen reader has to perform double duty to be used at home, at work,
 PG> or on other computers that I may need to access.  Anything that
 PG> hinders this flexibility for me as far as I'm concerned  negates the
 PG> worth of the product in my eyes.

Hi Patrick, with that I cannot disagree.  But I have been told that
you won't have to unlock version 4 of Flipper in this way.  I
wouldn't attempt to try to tell you which reader to buy, i'm sure you
are very able to make this decision, but you might at least consider
downloading version 3 of Flipper and taking a look at it before that
final moment.  Like any program, it isn't perfect, but on
the other hand, it is certainly a nice one with many nice features.
Thanks for the message.  Keith

... Life is a school where you learn the lesson AFTER you take the test!

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!89.0!Keith.Bucher
Internet: Keith.Bucher@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Re: Braille N Speak Compl
From: Keith.Bucher@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Keith Bucher)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/89.0 - BlinkLink, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 Quoting William Wilson to Cindy Hallenbeck 05 Aug 92  18:58:26

 WW> I only wish a few others understood what I am saying, but seeing
 WW> as they continue to compare the Braille 'n Speak with notebook
 WW> computers, I guess any further discussion of this by me will fall upon
 WW> deaf ears,

Hello Willie, Not deaf ears, just good economics.  A $1,295.00
notetaker with no internal storage verses a $1,000.00 computer with
floppy as well as hard drive.  You may not agree with me, but sooner
or later, people are going to realize that the braille 'N Speak is way
over priced.  If you wonder why I feel so strong about this subject,
well, in 1988 I was talked in to purchasing a notetaker.  Yes, I
certainly did, and I payed over  two grand for it.  Luckily I got most
of my money back, but lost a fair amount.  And notebooks weren't even
popular then.  I thought like many, and mistakenly so, I might
add, that MS-DOS would be too difficult for me, so I settled for the
Eureka A4.  I can't down it because it was my choice and I made it.
But you'd be surprised of the flaws we learned about it after owning
it for awhile.  It had both internal or programmable as well as
mechanical flaws.  I say, "We," because several of my friends bought
it as well.  And now that notebooks are indeed out there and so
inexpensive, plus the fact that MS-DOS andits accompanying programs
aren't hard to learn at all, people should just go for it!  As I
should have done in the first place.  Keith.

... TagLines are a figment of your imagination.

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!89.0!Keith.Bucher
Internet: Keith.Bucher@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Re: Warning!  Beware of Vendor
From: Keith.Bucher@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Keith Bucher)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/89.0 - BlinkLink, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 Quoting Robert Jaquiss to All 04 Aug 92 20:24:24

 RJ> I can understand who a vendor would want people putting disks in
 RJ> their machines.  Your diskette could have had a virus on it and you
 RJ> might not even know it.  This is especially true if your disk had
 RJ> been used in several machines.

Hello Robert, I must disagree with you.  I don't care if that German
uses ten virus shields.  If I'm to pay fifteen thousand dollars for a
laptop from an unknown company, what am I to do?  He might get a virus?
 I might get a fifteen grand boat anchor.  I'm not likely to get a
 virus on my disk from another computer by just typing a text file to
 the screen.  Besides, I had my disk right protected, so therefore,
 getting a virus on it would be impossible.  Yet this guy thinks we
 should plunk down a small fortune for his laptop.  How does the screen
 reader work?  What features does it have, compared with those in the
 US?  How accurate is the braille translator?  How good is the
 synthesizer?  Thanks but no thanks.  As I said over on Blindtalk, I've
 had many people scan and save the material on my disks at
 conventions, from adhoc, Kurzweil, and many Arkenstone dealers, not to
 mention Arkenstone themselves.  If vendors are paranoid, let them get
 virus protection software.  But you see, in the case of BAUM, I wasn't
 going to be saving to disk, just running this ASCII file.  But no
 matter.  No one in his right mind would buy that computer for that much
 money from an unknown company anyway.  Keith Bucher.

... If ignorance is bliss, why aren't there more happy folks?

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!89.0!Keith.Bucher
Internet: Keith.Bucher@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Re: Slimware Window Bridge
From: David.Tanner@f168.n129.z1.fidonet.org (David Tanner)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/168 - Braille Bank BBS, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

In a message of <04 Aug 92  13:48:16>, Bill Mcgarry (1:141/420) writes:

 >I talked to Synthavoice about a month ago to get some of their
 >demos to have on the BBS here.  When I asked about a demo of
 >the Window Bridge, I was told that there was no need for a demo
 >since blind people do not have Windows so why have a demo?
 >
 >Great logic, huh?
 >
 >Bill
 >

Well, I am going after their newest MS DOS version tonight.  the
new version 2.1 is now available for download and they have
established a download file area for Window Bridge on their board.
Checked the area out briefly from work this afternoon and saw that
the Window Bridge manual is there for download.  According to
David, when I talked to him today, he says that if you know how to
use the latest version 2.1 of their MS DOS release you will already
know 90% of the operating process of Window Bridge.

Somehow I have a feeling we will be seeing a Window Bridge demo
sooner than they are saying.  I just have a feeling that they are
getting a lot of demand for it and I would encourage people to call
their 800 number and keep bugging them for it till they come out
with one.

That's what they think, blind people don't have Windows!  I know
several people who have computers in their home who can't use them
because the rest of the family is using Windows, but since they
can't they just can't use the computer.  I also know that there are
a lot of conservative agencies for the blind who are not about to
spend what little funding they have for a product that they can't
be sure will do the job after they get it.

In addition, a lot of new computer systems are coming with free
copies of Windows packed with them, but the blind guy who gets one
of these can't use it except to reformat the disks for another
use.

So keep calling and asking for a Window Bridge demo everybody and
lets see if a bit of pressure changes their minds.  There is no
reason that they can't tell a person who calls in for support of a
demo version of the software that they only give technical support
to registered users.  Plenty of producers of software for the
sighted world do that and with plenty of justification.

        D. T.
        I lost my speech cursor to a hungry mouse!!!

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!168!David.Tanner
Internet: David.Tanner@f168.n129.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Tinytalk 1.20 is here!
From: Eric.Bohlman@f168.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Eric Bohlman)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/168 - Braille Bank BBS, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

[Note from Bill McGarry: This is also now available via
 anonymous ftp from handicap.shel.isc-br.com in the /pub/speech
 directory as TTALK120.ZIP]

Version 1.20 of Tinytalk, the powerful and affordable screen reader
from OMS Development, is FINALLY available!  The most significant
new feature is an independent audio cursor for "modeless review."
We've also added user-defined punctuation pronunciation (want to
hear "dot" instead of "point"?  Want to hear "dot" at the DOS
prompt, "period" in WordPerfect and "point" in Lotus?), selectable
order for reading multiple windows, a "read current character"
hotkey, and much more.  The user manual has been thoroughly
rewritten.  We now support the new Echo PC synthesizer
transparently (Tinytalk can detect which model you're using).

Tinytalk is still shareware, and the registration fee is still only
$75.  We WILL have a configuration conversion program available for
registered users within a week, at which point a free upgrade will
be sent out to all registered users.

Tinytalk has been uploaded to the Braille Bank (129/168) as
TTALK120.ZIP (it would have gone to BlinkLink, but Willie's fast
modem is in the hospital).  It's now up to 337K, mostly because of
the larger manual.

Thanks to all for your suggestions and your patience.

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!168!Eric.Bohlman
Internet: Eric.Bohlman@f168.n129.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Tinytalk 1.20 is here!
From: David.Tanner@f168.n129.z1.fidonet.org (David Tanner)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/168 - Braille Bank BBS, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

It's beautiful.  Already installed it here and it is seemingly even
more responsive with my new Accent SA than earlier versions.
Thanks ever so much for current character, independant cursor,
indefinate shutup, and all the other great features you added.  It
really is great.

Now, I seem to be having a problem I would like you to check out.
I can't seem to get ttconf to clone for me.  Any idea what is
happening?

Again, thanks for a truely great speech software at a truely
tremendous price.

        D. T.

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!168!David.Tanner
Internet: David.Tanner@f168.n129.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Re: Slimware Window Bridge
From: Paul.Nobrega@p0.f266.n163.z1.fidonet.org (Paul Nobrega)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:163/266.0 - Vision, Ottawa ON


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

i can't resist and must chip in here and say that you guys are being
most unfair in making the statements you are on products you know
nothing about. i am using syntha-voice products and will put them up
against any other program. further more, i don't think that any other
firm can be more supportive of their products through their tole free
line accessable in the whole of north aerica.   please don't cross the
bridge. all the same, i wich you the best.
paul

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!163!266.0!Paul.Nobrega
Internet: Paul.Nobrega@p0.f266.n163.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Re: Windows access maybe
From: Glen.Sepke@f2.n348.z1.fidonet.org (Glen Sepke)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:348/2 - Man-Net-EC, Winnipeg MB


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

KB> .I ask you, Marvin, if Synthavoice has such good products,
where are their U.S. users?  And why don't I hear all of them
talking about it?

Hi Keith,

I am a Canadian, who took offense at this statement.  Regardless of
the correctness of your analysis of SLIM WARE (which I agree with
BTW) implying that if U.S. folks don't use something, it probably
is substandard is a very self-centered view of the wourld.

KB>   A few years ago I read an article in Technology Update that
talked about even the Canadian Government having problems with
Synthavvoice.  The fact is, Slimware cannot compete with all our
screen readers and synthesizers. It may sell in Canada, but too
many people down here have seen too many broken promises from this
company.

I again adree with your view of the company in question, but
painting Canadians as being unaware of options, or willing to
accept substandard products and service, so they buy SLIM WARE
bothers me a little.  That would be like me saying all Americans
have a self-centered view of their access technology.  I feel we
should discuss the attributes of the product, and yes the company
that provides the product, but let's please stop short of drawing
sweeping generalizations dependant on the company's country of
origin.  - Glen -

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!348!2!Glen.Sepke
Internet: Glen.Sepke@f2.n348.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Braille Manuals
From: David.Andrews@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (David Andrews)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/89.0 - BlinkLink, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

I would of course prefeered a Braille manual with the Blazer, although
the tape I got was fine.  Further, the built-in speech does faciliitate
easy use by a blind person.  I have also received a number of
expensive, (very expensive) refreshable Braille displays without
manuals in Braille.  Now that is unforgivable.

David Andrews

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!89.0!David.Andrews
Internet: David.Andrews@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org




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                                ******

                  End of Issue # 2883 of the Handicap Digest

                                ******