From: C20211@prime-a.plymouth.ac.uk (John Horne)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Miltons breeding - grading/registration,etc - a bit long!
Date: 26 Aug 92 13:40:53 GMT
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    Hi all,

    Re: Miltons breeding,

    Kyle Karnosh wrote :

      >  What was the book that you looked this up in?
      > I'd be interested to know.

    The book is 'The International Warmblood Horse' by Celia Clarke and
    Debbie Wallin. It's published by The Kenilworth Press Ltd in 1991.
    (ISBN 1-872082-15-7)

    I saw the book a couple of times last year, and whilst it looked
    interesting I had no real reason to buy it (no warmblood horse!). However,
    my friend has a Danish (or is it Dutch?) Warmblood stallion, and she
    wanted to know a bit about his history. I don't know what papers she
    got with him. Anyway I bought the book and gave it to her so she could
    determine his pedigree for the Stallion parades which were soon to be
    held. I borrowed it back for the Mares grading show I went to.
    It's a good book, but it's not a text book about Warmbloods. It is split
    into sections on the main Warmblood breeds. So knowing Marius as Miltons
    sire, I started there and just tried to find out who his sires and dams
    were. Glad you liked the picture; it seemed the easiest way of
    presenting the information :-) The book has photos of many mares and
    stallions, and some histories of them in this 'picture' form.

    Kyle Karnosh wrote :

      >> AS.GGG@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gwyn Gordon) /  8:02 am  Aug 24, 1992 /
      >> Gwyn writes in response to John:
      >>>
      >>>    Miltons sire was Marius who was an ungraded warmblood.

      >>What does "graded" and "ungraded" mean? Is this a term for being
      >>listed in the Registry or is it a level of desireability or what?

      > In answer to Gwyn's question, in most Warmblood breeding registries
      > both the mares and the stallions must be presented for inspection (or
      > grading) and receive a minimum score before their offspring can be
      > registered.

    I'm certainly NOT an expert on Warmbloods or the registration/grading
    process (so no flames please :-) ). That was one of the reasons for my
    going to see the Mare grading taking place - to find out a bit more.
    My understanding of it though is this. Registration is (simply?)
    registering the foal with the relevant breed society when it is born. The
    parents must be registered (or at least the sire I think). For the
    German Warmbloods the Warmblood breed is determined by where the foal is
    born, e.g. Hanoverians are born in the Hanover state (?) regardless of
    the Warmblood breed of the foals parents. Trakehners are registered as such
    if the parents are Trakehners and regardless of where the foal is born
    (confusing huh?). I assume the owner doesn't HAVE to register the foal,
    although in Germany where breeding is much more regulated this may not
    be so.

    Grading is where the stallion and/or mare is presented before judges so
    that he/she may be entered into the stud books. Again this varies according
    to different societies. It can take years, and requires vet tests,
    performance tests, judging of conformation, temperment, etc, etc.
    Performance in competitions at a high level are taken into account, as
    are the conformation, etc of the sires and mares foals. Usually there is
    more than one stud book for the breed, and the grading determines which
    one the stallion/mare enters. The very best enter one stud book, those
    of slightly less 'quality' enter the next, and so on downwards. Obviously
    not all horses presented for grading enter the stud books, and this is how
    the development of the Warmblood breed aims towards the 'ideal' horse.
    The mare owner will obviously use the best stallion possibly, bearing in
    mind the mares own 'defects' and counteracting those with the stallion.
    In the British Warmblood society there are 4 stud books. From the top
    they are the Select Stud book, the Main Stud book, the Permanent stud
    register, and the Preliminary stud register. If you want the exact
    details of the requirements for each book for each breed then let me
    know. To be graded the horse must be registered with a breed society.

    To improve the Warmblood breed stallions of other breeds are used. These
    must be stallions which have been 'graded into' the warmblood stud books
    though. For this they are presented at the breeds grading show, and again
    graded into one of the stud books. This is how POET appeared in Miltons
    history. POET was (is?) a Thoroughbred, but was a good enough stallion to
    be graded into a Warmblood registry (I can't remember which). This is shown
    by the 'XX' after his name - this indicates a Thoroughbred graded into
    a Warmblood stud book. BTW a single X indicates an Anglo-Arab graded into a
    Warmblood stud book. At the Mares grading the same thing happens, and at
    the one I went to there was a separate class for TB mares wanting to be
    graded into the BWBS stud books. Again of course not all mares/stallions
    are accepted. As Kyle said their scores must be high - an 'average'
    score is not good enough, and indeed some graded horses are NOT graded
    into other societies simply because they are not though of as being
    good enough by the judges.

    I hope this helps a bit, but as I said I'm not an expert - just someone
    with an interest in Warmbloods. Any mistakes (of any sort) are my fault.
    As can be seen though, unlike other horse breeds (Arab, TB, native breeds
    etc) where stallions and mares of the SAME breed are used to produce
    offspring of that breed, with the Warmblood this is not done. A stallion
    (graded) will be used to 'improve' the Warmblood breed, but that stallion
    /mare may be of another breed. As said before this is very much regulated
    in Germany, and other countries, following the German style, likewise
    have strict regulations concerning grading and the use of stallions/mares.
    In the UK this seems to be taking a long time to get going, although
    grading can be tough since we use British as well as German judges.

    In Miltons case, as I said he wasn't registered. Likewise his sire Marius,
    wasn't graded but, I assume, registered. And again Marius's sire Marco
    Polo was a Trakehner, but graded into the Dutch Warmblood society.
    Hopefully all this makes more sense now :-)

    BTW, at the moment I'm riding a Highland pony mare!! Not the same as a
    Warmblood, but she's a sweetie when she feels like it :-)

    John,
    Plymouth, UK.
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian