From: mccolm@darwin.math.usf.edu. (Gregory McColm)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Why is Yoga considered an occult practise?
Date: 3 Jan 93 21:03:47 GMT
Organization: Univ. of South Florida, Math Department

In article <1992Dec28.191825.13381@digi.lonestar.org> gpalo@digi.lonestar.org (Gerry Palo) writes:
>Satya,
>
>Your comments are thoughtful and well taken.  I will add a couple of my
>own.  The issues may be such that they are hard to discuss in a newsgroup
>format.
>
>In article <1992Dec25.122141.3017@news2.cis.umn.edu> prabhak@giga.cs.umn.edu (Satya Prabhakar) writes:
>>(Gerry Palo) writes:
>>>>(Satya Prabhakar) writes...
>>>>>Yoga, to the best of my knowledge and belief, is a combination of
>>>>>physical exercise (with heavy emphasis on deep breathing) and some
>>>>>amount of transcendental meditation (trying to keep the mind blank
>>>>>for an extended period of time.) This practise is not packaged with 
>>>>>any religious connotations.
>>>
>>>I am not a fundamentalist, and I don't claim yoga to be a form of devil
>>>worship.  But it is most definitely a form of religious practice, as
>>>the above post indicates, and it has underlying its forms a definite
>>>religious/spiritual weltanschauung.  The same laws that forbid Christian
>>>prayer and religious practice in public schools apply to other religious
>>>practices as well.  
>>
>>I agree with you in principle that if Yoga is widely considered to be
>>a Hindu form of physical and mental exercise and has some religious
>>aspects to it, it ought not be to taught in our schools. Then, would you
>>be as willing to ban Karate and Judo also, naming them Buddhist or
>>Chinese rituals?
>
>This is a good point.  My own feeling is that they probably should not be 
>taught as part of normal public school curricula, though they certainly
>may be valuable to individuals based on their own or their parents' choice.
>The problem with yoga is that it is much more difficult to draw the separating
>line with yoga, between where it is simply a method of physical and psycho-
>logical culture and where it becomes a real path of spiritual development.
>I guess the point is that parents are concerned about it, and they are
>not necessarily just being narrow minded about it.  For myself, I would not


Two related comments, on how two bad habits feed on eachother.
First, it is a common ploy among some "Fundamentalists" to 
classify something they don't like as "religious" in order to 
expel it from the schools.  The theory is that if the separation 
of Church and State can expel the Bible from the classroom, then it 
should also expel, say, The Wizard of Oz from the library.  
The Wizard of Oz advances Satanism with its Good Witches (no, I 
am NOT making this argument up---it has been advanced by many 
"Fundamentalist" censors) and therefore advances a religion, and 
therefore ... .

Yoga, Karate, Judo, etc, are all from the Mysterious East, and 
involve doig weird things, which makes them, well, unAmerican.  
Yoga especially, with people standing one their heads and, er, 
breathing, is obviously subversive.  The easiest way of banning 
the whole business is to declare it Taoist or Moslem or whatever 
religious affiliation seems most appropriate, and having the 
School Board do the dirty work.  And then its back to equal time 
for Creation ... .

So much for bad habits among some Christians.  Now for some bad 
habits among yogists ...

>>>I most definitely do not wish this path to be taught to my
>>>children, especially under the amateurish forms that any public school
>>>sponsored pedagogical activity would necessarily make of it.  Aside from 
>>>the deeper questions of the appropriateness of yoga (especially as it
>>>centers around the breath) for modern consciousness, I am disturbed by
>>>the dilletantism with which it is both taught and practiced in western
>>>countries today.  
>>
>>Continuing my argument, would you similarly preepmt the teaching of
>>Karate also because we are convinced that western teachers don't really
>>understand the inner meaning of the art? 
>>
>Yes. Again, I am in favor of freedom of choice, and have no objection to
>individuals following, whether well informed or ill informed, whatever
>path they want to.  But I do not like to see something as spiritually
>powerful as these meditative paths taught en masse when the potential
>consequences are so great.  
>
>>Coming down one level to more mundane arts, Tennis and Chess, I find
>>that most schools tutors are amateurish and impart wrong types of
>>strategy-formulation and stroke-techniques to children (to the best of
>>my experience in both the games). Should we then stop the teaching
>>of these arts also for fear that we may be causing harm than good?
>>
>The consequences of a poor tennis stroke or a weak chess game are 
>something different from those of a spiritual exercise wrongly taught.
>This is a matter of proportion.  There is no question that _most_ of what
>is taught in public schools, including reading and writing, is done with
>gross incompetence, and its effect on children -- and the adults that
>they are to become -- is horrible to contemplate.  For this reason I 
>don't send my children to the public schools.  But I also feel that 
>the teaching of yoga (or Zen for that matter) is fraught with serious
>consequences for those who follow it wrongly.  Yoga in particular 
>developed in an age where the individual self consciousness had not
>yet emerged, and the conditions for its practice in times past were
>always very strict and even severe.  The progress of the pupil was always
>under the guidance of and in strict obedience to the guru, the spiritual
>teacher.  They knew the power of what they were dealing with and the
>consequences of thoughtless application of the methods.
>
>>>I believe that yoga, while right
>>>for an earlier age, is no longer quite right for the age of consciousness
>>>in which we are now living.  

While I hate to shock the innocent young, it is possible to go to 
your neighborhood bookstore and buy a copy of INTRODUCTION TO YOGA 
in which one learns how to do ALL SORTS OF TOP SECRET YOGA EXERCISES 
without any duly authorized supervision whatsoever.  And quite a 
number of us not only use this book (its cheaper than gurus!) but 
even perform exercises!  No doubt this is destroying us spiritually.
And it isn't just Yoga.  Some people sell books on how to play 
Chess.  And predictably, the result is an army of inferior Chess 
players.  But the REAL ugliness lies in the immense population of 
tennis-players-who-think-that-they-play-almost-as-good-as-McEnroe-
but-really-are-as-bad-as-dyspeptic-seals.

Yes, yes, I know, Drink Deep or Not At All, but part of being human 
is experimenting.  And one need not do so under proper auspices:  as 
a scientist, I do not insist that only people with PhDs be permitted 
to experiment and speculate, and I am not deranged enough to suggest 
that, school personnel being what they are, that science not be taught 
in the public school system.  The attitude that this era's conscious-
ness is wrong for this era (too hyperactive?  too much television?) 
sounds a bit like a French Chef, miffed by Julia Child and appalled 
by MacDonald's, trying to hoard recipes like the crown jewels.

It doesn't make sense.  Many yoga exercises (mostly stretching 
exercises) have been appropriated by PE instructors because 
calisthenics require stretching warm-ups.  So much for the special 
claim that yoga is harmful to the uninitiated (in fact, yoga is 
not dangerous as, say, weightlifting is dangerous;  should people 
lift weights only under the direction of physical therapists?).
And I do not think that yoga should be restricted to those who 
accept yoga's spiritual claims---any more than I believe that 
mathematics should be restricted to Platonists (yes, Virginia, 
there is indeed an Official Mathematics Religion over 2000 yrs old).

Final flame.  The "dilettante" charge is extremely unfair.  Perhaps 
I fell this way just because it has been levelled at competitors of 
Oxford and Cambridge ever since those competitors abandoned the 
Classics curriculum around 1800 or so, and started teaching science
(Oxford and Cambridge did not teach science to all undergraduates 
until later in the 19th century; and taught little advanced science).  
Many of the best scientists of the 19th century English-speaking world 
came from these colleges and universities;  few came from Oxford, 
Cambridge, or their emulators.  When one tries to give a liberal 
arts (science included) & vocational education, many subjects are 
skimmed.  Should they be dropped?  Stored in monastic security by the 
favored few who are properly authorized to have access?  Or should it 
be part of the public domain, available, as best as we can make it, to 
everyone interested?

One man's dilettante is another's Renaissance Man.

-----Greg McColm


--
SHAMELESS AD:  Math PhDs in Analysis, Discrete Math./Th. of Comp., Num. Anal., 
Prob., are invited to apply to the Math. Dept. of Univ. of S. Florida for 
research/teaching positions that may be available: contact K. L. Pothoven at 
mathdept@math.usf.edu. Deadline 2/1/93. USF is a politically correct employer.