HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: andy@nff.ncl.Omron.Co.Jp (Andy Krantz)
Subject: Re: Loud irritating obtrusive American tourists.
Reply-To: andy@nff.ncl.omron.co.jp
Organization: Omron Computer Systems R&D Labs 
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 01:06:11 GMT

In article <1992Aug31.134741.13471@sinix.UUCP>, ian@sinix.UUCP (Ian Malone) writes:
> 
> Oh, the Japanese, another successful society with an increasing number of
> travellers, also display the same kind of loud, gleeful, confidence that
> would probably make you uncomfortable, do you not like them as well?
> 
> Ian Malone
> 
> Or was this just flame bait?

Yes, indeed. 'Twas.

Note: I make a distinction between the backpackers and the organized tour
groups. Backpackers are not exactly main stream: they put up with more
hassles, are usually more tolerant and usually do not try to cause waves
because they don't have a tour leader to cry to if something goes wrong. As
such, backpackers from any country tend to USUALLY resemble each other in
mannerisms.

Tour groups on the other hand... :-) Have the mindset, "Well, I paid for this
tour so I had better get my money's worth!" If something goes wrong, an
American will have a greater tendancy to raise Cain to get things right. A
Japanese will have a tendancy to accept it as fate.

You could prabably draw parallels between tour groups from any two different
countries.

Note: "It is the sqeeky cogs that gets the oil." You notice and remember the 
people who stick out in a crowd. 

-- 
 Andy Krantz   andy@nff.ncl.omron.co.jp   \ Everyone stares at me 'cause I is
 Phone: +81-75-951-5111 x3691 FAX: 956-7403\ gaijin. I understand nobody and 
 OMRON Corp., Computer Systems R&D Labs    / nobody understand me. How could
 Shimokaiinji, Nagaokakyo Kyoto, 617 Japan/   I possibly speak for company?
Newsgroups: rec.travel
From: rob@vitsemi.com (Rob Eccles)
Subject: Re: hiring/buying camping equipment in San Francisco
Organization: Vitesse Semiconductor
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 18:47:49 GMT

In article <990009@hpwrce.mayfield.hp.com> kinch@hpwrce.mayfield.hp.com (Kinch Malapitan) writes:
>Try the following stores:
>
>o Mt. View Surplus                1299 W. El Camino Real, Mt. View
>				  (415) 969-2381
>
>o North Face                      383 University Ave., Palo Alto
>				  (415) 327-1563
>

North Face has a seconds outlet in Berkeley, CA.  This is a good way
to get high-quality equipment at a not-as-high price.  When I was there
a few months ago, they had a good selection of sleeping bags, parkas, etc.

>o Mel Cotton's Sporting Goods     1266 W. San Carlos St., San Jose
>				  (408) 287-5994
>
>o REI                             20640 Homestead Road, Cupertino
>				  (408) 446-1991
>
>
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rob Eccles         | Disclaimer: The statements made here do not 
rob@vitsemi.COM    | represent my employer or anyone else.
Xref: sparky rec.travel:12803 soc.culture.usa:7058
From: hanners@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Robert Hanners)
Newsgroups: rec.travel,soc.culture.usa
Subject: Re: Loud irritating obtrusive American tourists.
Date: 2 Sep 92 17:56:04 GMT
Reply-To: hanners@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Robert Hanners)
Followup-To: rec.travel
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Annapolis, MD

In rec.travel, d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se (Bertil Jonell) writes:
>  One thing that amazed me in the US was the lack of *common* hightech(1) in
>some areas and the general overstaffing. Roadworks are a typical example of
>the latter: In Sweden you usually find 4 to 8 people at a big roadwork site
>where they put new covering on the road or something but over in the US it
>wasn't uncommon to see 10-20 persons, one holding a sign saying 'SLOW', one
>driving a car with a 'follow me' sign, four or five just standing around and
>so on and so on.                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

How insensitive!  They not just "standing around"; they're SUPERVISING!
(And you missed the other six that are at the local Seven-Eleven discussing
the financial intricacies involved in buying their *supervisors* coffee
and donuts.)


>(1) With 'common hightech' I'm not talking about the peak technologies but
>    rather what the average level of technology is in the society. The number
>    of phones per inhabitant might be a measure of this for example.

Perhaps, but I wager the US leads the world in phone-hours-in-use per
teenage inhabitant!  <*grin*>

-- Bob

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert J. Hanners         "My comments; only mine."          *DIASTOLE* 676673
CD, NSWC, Annapolis, MD                              hanners@oasys.dt.navy.mil
Newsgroups: rec.travel
From: matt@tfs.com (Matthew Hom)
Subject: Hotel Esmeralda in Paris
Followup-To: poster
Keywords: Paris Hotel
Organization: TRW Financial Systems
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 18:47:11 GMT


I'm in the process of making reservations for 4 nights at the Esmeralda Hotel
in Paris. It's in the left bank and the description from Frommer's
"Paris on $45 a day" seems fairly nice.

	"The Hotel Esmeralda, with its beamed ceilings and stone walls,
	has considerable charm and an excellent location. But what attracts
	visitors from all over the world are the views of the Notre Dame,
	obliquely across the little Square Rene'-Vivani...."

I'm trying to get a double, with shower, toilet, and a view. They are
asking 450F ($99). Any thoughts?

reply to me by mail. Thanks.

--
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| These are my opinions and are not necessarily those of my employer.   |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Matt Hom                              matt@tfs.com                    |
| TRW Financial Systems                 (310)590-7510                   |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+

Newsgroups: rec.travel,soc.culture.usa
From: wlim@gdstech.GRUMMAN.COM (Willie Lim)
Subject: Re: Loud irritating obtrusive American tourists.
Organization: Grumman Corporation, Bethpage, New York, USA.
	<1992Sep1.010611.21679@omrongw.wg.omron.co.jp>
	<RBS.92Sep1145844@mink.uk.ac.ed.aisb>
	<1992Sep1.151915.15292@newshost.lanl.gov>
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 19:07:18 GMT

In article <1992Sep1.151915.15292@newshost.lanl.gov> mwj@beta.lanl.gov (William Johnson) writes:

   It might be useful for tourists-to-be to try to become aware of the potential
   chain-pullers in the environments they will be touring, and to try to become
   "desensitized" to them in advance.  Are any other tourees interested in helping
   compile such a list?

Well, here is a start:

1) Not lining up for the bus, at the front desk of hotels, etc.

2) Paying for the use of the toilet.

3) Taking off (or not taking off) your shoes on entry to a home.

4) Pets in restaurants.

5) The customer can wait, is stupid/wrong/etc. etc.

6) The unusual smell/aroma of the local cuisine and produce.

7) Eating without utensils (i.e. using just the hands).

8) Always using the right hand to give things to another person.

9) Using the thumb to point at a person.

10) Get fined for being a litter bug (e.g. ash from cigarette, not
flushing the toilet/urinator, etc. etc.)




Willie

Newsgroups: rec.travel
From: terwill@arecibo.aero.org (Bill who?)
Subject: Re: Loud irritating obtrusive American tourists.
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Reply-To: terwill@arecibo.aero.org
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 20:49:00 GMT

Someone, a South African (?), originally posted:

>>It has been my experience when travelling abroad that the majority 
>>of American tourists are loud, obtrusive and selfish. They are at their 
>>worst in large tour groups, but individuals and families can be almost as 
>>bad. They appear to have no consideration for fellow tourists and the locals 
>>whose lands they are visiting. 
> 

..and there was some agreement and some disagreement, but all on the
sincere, if not mature, side.

Well, as an American visiting one of my favorite local spots last March,
Inspiration Point in Yosemite National Park, I observed a large group of
Germans get off a tour bus, start talking loudly and, almost everyone over the
age of 15 lit a cigarette. It was obvious that they were glad to be off the bus
and excited by seeing the valley in all her winter splender. However, before
returning to the bus they all, yes I watched this carefully, crushed their
cigarette butts beneath their shoes and left them at Inspiration Point as a
token of their appreciation. 

I have also observed Japanese doing this in Hawaii (but not at Inspiration
Point :).) I believe that not all Germans are litterbugs, nor are all 
Japanese, but conversly, I beleive all people who generalize are fools.

Bill
Newsgroups: rec.travel,soc.culture.usa
From: wcsjc@alfred.carleton.ca (John Coughlin)
Subject: Re: Loud irritating obtrusive American tourists.
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 01:18:09 GMT

In <1992Aug25.112325.22674@cs.few.eur.nl> knops@cs.few.eur.nl (Michel Knops) writes:

>Aha! This is TYPICALLY American! `Shopping around in Europe':
>- Amsterdam 1/2 day
>- Berlin 1 day
>- Paris 1 day
>- London 1 day
>Finally getting to the conclusion that `in America everything is
>MUUUCCCH bigger' :-). 

It is bigger.  It took me nearly two weeks to do the USA.

8-) for the humour impaired.
-- 
Flesh: John Coughlin                            Elvis ate my Cadillac
Net: wcsjc@ccs.carleton.ca     Vox: +1 613 957-2851     Fax: 990-7370
Newsgroups: rec.travel
From: anil@cs.titech.ac.jp (Anil Bhatia)
Subject: sublet our  rooms in Tokyo
Organization: Tokyo Institute of Tech., Dept. of Computer Science, Japan
Distribution: rec.travel
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 18:04:13 GMT

If anyone is intersted in doing an excahnge of rooms..
for 1 to 4 weeks in Tokyo..please e-mail me.
I will send you a video of our humble abode,
if you will send a video of yours.
Thanks,
Anil
Newsgroups: rec.travel,soc.culture.usa
From: martin@megadata.mega.oz.au (Martin Corr)
Subject: Re: Loud irritating obtrusive American tourists.
Originator: martin@job
Organization: Megadata P/L, North Ryde, Sydney, Aust.
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 04:11:37 GMT

From article <1992Aug31.134741.13471@sinix.UUCP>, by ian@sinix.UUCP (Ian Malone):
> In article <frank2.28@underdog.ee.wits.ac.za> frank2@underdog.ee.wits.ac.za (FRANK D N) writes:

Lots of flame stuff deleted...

> 
> Well, I must admit, it *is* hard getting used to European service.  This is
> not a cut of Europe, it is just true.  American service is superior and
> I, and probably many americans, have a hard time getting used to be ignored
> by waiters, and recieving bad information because someone is 5 minutes
> away from their dejeuner and can't be bothered to find out the information 
> you need.
>  
>>I do not want to be guilty of generalising. I certainly have met many 
>  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>  Yea, right.
> 
>>interesting, interested and considerate American travellers. Unfortunately, 
>>they do seem to be in the minority.
>>
>>
>>
>>I would appreciate some insight on this issue.
> 
> Well, because the economy and standard of living in the States is vastly
> superior to that of european countries, more Americans travel.  You don't
> notice the quiet ones, just the loud ones.  Since *so* many americans do
> travel, there are more obnoxious ones.
> 
> Besides, Americans enjoy themselves and are used to being free to express 
> themselves.  Unlike many of the people I meet in Europe <I live here>,
> Americans are not used to acting like scared, repressed sheep.  So they are
> loud.  So they yell in the streets.  Gee, sorry.
>

I think we've found one !!!!!

Martin 
Xref: sparky rec.travel:12355 soc.culture.usa:6870
From: rorschak@daimi.aau.dk (Jesper Lauridsen)
Newsgroups: rec.travel,soc.culture.usa
Subject: Re: Loud irritating obtrusive American tourists.
Date: 26 Aug 92 00:40:13 GMT
Organization: A mythological place called Bramming

douglis@MITL.COM (Fred Douglis) writes:

>Just remember, many Americans only get 2 weeks of vacation per year.
>I don't know how much you get, but I know many if not all Europeans
>get 4-6 weeks.  It's a lot easier to take in a place for a longer
>period when you have much more vacation time.

>I'm not saying it's possible to see much of Paris in a half a day.  But
>the "if it's Tuesday this must be X" syndrome has some basis in reality.

The smart thing to do in that situation (short vacation) would simply
be to cut down the number of places to visit. Just spend the 2 weeks
in the same place.
-- 
I neither can nor will at this or any other (previous or coming) moment
in time respect anyone or anything wearing a baseball cap and/or a pair
of boxershorts, unless the wearing of these artifacts is an important
part of a contract giving said individuals or creatures an income of more
than 10 times the average for people with similar educational background.
From: john@spss.com (John Przyborowski)
Newsgroups: rec.travel
Subject: Info on St. John's
Date: 26 Aug 92 16:26:27 GMT
Organization: SPSS Inc.

Hello everyone.  I'm appealing to all of you seasoned trvellers:
anyone been to St Johns?  Any recommendations of things to do while
there?  Weather in early Oct?

Thanks in advance!

john
SPSS
From: esr@unixhub.SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Edwin S. Russell)
Newsgroups: rec.travel
Subject: Re: I want to go to Europe
Date: 27 Aug 92 16:33:11 GMT

In article <27AUG199210485466@lims02.lerc.nasa.gov>  
afruben@lims02.lerc.nasa.gov (RUBEN DELROSARIO) writes:
>   My wife and me are thinking about going to Europe sometime in 1993 (
> possible Summer).  We are thinking of a travel with back-packs, jeans, 
> shirts.  Maybe arriving in Spain and start traveling from there (we do not 
> have kids)  We are thinking of being between three and four weeks.  
> What are your recommendations?  Airline, where to go in Spain, France, etc.
> , where to stay, motels, bed and breakfast, and transportation. (rent a car
> , train, etc.)  I need all the info you can give.  Please, if possible 
> reply by E-mail I don't have too much time to read the net. (You can reply 
> in Spanish or English

Not to single out Ruben but I find I get kind of irritated by requests like  
this.  The net is great for exchanging information but requests like "I'm  
going to visit China.  What should I see?" are inappropriate IMO.  The net is  
not a substitute for preliminary homework.  There are travel books galore.  I  
think each of us has a personal responsibility to do some personal study,  
decide what *kinds* of things are of interest, and *then* ask for input on  
things that might be of interest.

A paraphrase of the above might be:  "We are thinking of going to Europe.  We  
don't know where we want to go or how we want to travel or what we want to  
see and I don't have time to find out about any of these things.  Please do  
my homework for me."

I enjoy this group (and others), find it useful and educational and have  
responded to a number of requests when I feel I have something to say that  
might help someone.  However, not to these kinds of requests.  I usually  
ignore them.  I don't know why I felt I had to reply to this one.  Must be a  
bad morning or something.
Newsgroups: rec.travel
From: cid@athena.mit.edu (Derek H Cedillo)
Subject: One Way Bos->Chi   $45!
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 10:17:55 GMT



one way, logan to midway.  America West.  Sept 11th (changeable)
Female Passenger.  


Derek
From: s9232@harvey.gte.com (Hammad Azzam)
Newsgroups: rec.travel
Subject: Seattle(Washington) Hotels
Summary: Hotel names and numbers in downtown Seattle
Keywords: Seattle, hotel names
Date: 27 Aug 92 03:57:51 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: GTE Laboratories



-- 
Horace Dediu                                                  GTE Laboratories
(617) 466-4111                                                40 Sylvan Road
Internet: hdediu@gte.com                                      Waltham, MA 02254
Xref: sparky rec.travel:12835 soc.culture.usa:7083
From: john@pyrmania.pyramid.com.au (John Sims)
Newsgroups: rec.travel,soc.culture.usa
Subject: Re: Loud irritating obtrusive American tourists.
Date: 3 Sep 92 03:11:22 GMT
Followup-To: rec.travel
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corporation, Perth, Western Australia

In article <1992Sep2.160751.19046@sinix.UUCP> ian@sinix.UUCP (Ian Malone) writes:
>And if we do have to hurry through Europe, it is
>because unlike the European, we *work*, none of this 6 week of vacation
>a year shit.  But I guess banking drug-money isn't that time consuming.

And I suppose you decline to take longer than two weeks vacation a year ?
IMNSHO, there is MUCH more to life than work. IMNSHO (again), I am not
on planet earth to work, I am here to have a good time (lots of travelling :-)
and I work simply because it's necessary. I don't begrudge working, but it's
not the focus of my life, not my raison d'e^tre.
And that comment about drug-money - VERY bitchy.

>
>Yea, those same asshole americans that saved you and everyone else's
>asses from the Nazi.  I seem to remember Switzerland being neutral.
>Yea, that would have lasted long.  You would have been a state of
>Bayern. 
>

Oh give us all a break. This is the same drivel you always get from painful
USAns when they get insecure about the USA. There is no reason to be insecure.
(is there ? :-)

>Living in Munich, I have been to switzerland a few times.  The people are
>honest, hard-working, dull and have no spirit what-so-ever.  It really
>has to be the most utterly boring place in the *entire* world.  
>

That's your definition of spirit, and dull. I can tell you there are plenty
of Swiss party-animals (to use an expression I suspect you'll understand)
who are up there with the best.

>everyone else has for years and years.  Gee, I'd rather be a loud amused
>American that a wooden puppet.

Your decision. Some of us might act differently though.
Based on this post, and a previous one I saw from you, are you trying to live
up to the gross generalisation that the initial poster in this thread
described ?

In your previous post you kept on saying how inferior Europe was as a place
to live compared to the USA. To rehash a good cliche', "if the USA is that
much better, if Europe is such a lousy place to live, why don't you go back ?"

>
>Ian Malone
>
>That's Mr. Malone to you.
>

John.
(And I HATE being called Mr. :-)

-- 
      -m------- Pyramid Technology             john@pyrmania.pyramid.com.au
    ---mmm----- 4th Floor, South Shore Centre
  -----mmmmm--- 83-87 The Esplanade                   VOICE: +61 9 474 2600
-------mmmmmmm- South Perth, 6151 Australia           FAX:   +61 9 474 1211
From: rog@hpscit.sc.hp.com (Roger Haaheim)
Newsgroups: rec.travel
Subject: Re: Recommendations for Oslo?
Date: 26 Aug 92 20:27:38 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Clara, CA

In rec.travel, Alan_York@mindlink.bc.ca (Alan York) writes:

> You can't eat without going broke in Oslo.  Suggest you check out the youth
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    Not true.  You have a couple of options.

    1.  Stop at a grocery store, buy, and fix your own meals. 

    2.  Do like we did, and host an exchange student from Oslo (or Norway)
	and stay with her/his family on subsequent trips.

> Number one rule for visiting Norway, take lots of money and/or credit cards.
                               ^^^^^^
    or anywhere else, these days    :^(
Newsgroups: rec.travel
From: haertig@gmd.de (Hermann Haertig)
Subject: Re: Advice for travel to Hong Kong, Bangkok, or Pakistan
Keywords: Advice for travel to Hong Kong, Bangkok, or Pakistan
Organization: GMD, Sankt Augustin, Germany
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 07:40:38 GMT

In <1992Aug31.204222.27109@u.washington.edu> ihateuw@u.washington.edu (David Wong) writes:

>	Hello all,
>	I'm going to be leaving the last week of September to study for a year  
>in Lahore, Pakistan.  En route I've arranged about five days in Hong Kong and a  
>couple in Bangkok.  I'm looking for general advice as to cheap, decent places  
>to stay in each, and sights worth seeing.  Anyone have the inside story on  
>hostels or backpacker's lodges there?  Info including an idea of cost and  
>location would help greatly.  Also, I'd like to spend a day or two in mainland  
>China, and was wondering if anyone knows any specifics as to buying ferry  
>tickets from Hong Kong, cost thereof and how best to obtain a visa?
>	Finally, any travel advice of places to go and things to see throughout  
>the sub-continent would be much appreciated. I'll have four weeks off around  
>Christmas and am hoping to travel throughout India.  Many thanks in advance.
>					
>					           

I have spent my summer vacation for three subsequent years in Pakistan, mainly
in its Northern Territories. If you like mountains and trekking, its an
absolutely wonderful place to travel.

Places to visit: KKH in general, Karimabad(Hunza), Hushey(Skardu), Chitral and the Kailash
valleys, don't miss a flight from Rawalpindi to Gilgit(absolutely spectacular),
Peshawar(and the gun factories in Darah), Lahore is very interesting also, but hot.

Visit Kashgar(China end of KKH) and its Sunday market!

Take along water purification stuff!

Buy: Isabel Shaw's Pakistan Handbook (best travel book on P.)

-- hermann haertig.
   Project BirliX, GMD (German National Research Center for Computer Science)
   internet: haertig@gmd.de                       x400: haertig@zi.gmd.dbp.de
From: lernerm@ccmail.orst.edu (Lerner, Michael M.)
Newsgroups: rec.travel
Subject: request - number for entertainment guide
Date: 21 Aug 92 21:01:20 GMT
Organization: Chemistry Department, Oregon State University

Can some kind person please post the phone number to order entertainment 
guides for cities (the one with 2/1 offers at restaurants, etc.) ?


Thanks in advance.
Newsgroups: rec.travel
From: john@earlj.b11.ingr.COM (John H. Earl)
Subject: Where is Cap d' Agde?
Reply-To: john@earlj.b11.ingr.COM
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 19:08:44 GMT

Can anyone out there tell me where Cap d'Agde is?  I know it's in France
on the Med but it's not on my Thomas Cook map.  Is it near Nice or
Marseille or where?

Thanks in advance!

-- 
            ****************************************************
            *    Intergraph        |       John H. Earl        *
            * Systems Product      |      (205) 730-6536       *
            *    Marketing         |  john@earlj.b11.ingr.COM  *
            *  Huntsville, AL      |     Mail Stop: CR1102     *
            ****************************************************

Newsgroups: rec.travel,soc.culture.usa
From: teshima@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (A. Lani Teshima)
Subject: Re: Loud irritating obtrusive American tourists.
Organization: University of Hawaii
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 07:25:33 GMT

In article <1992Aug25.112325.22674@cs.few.eur.nl> knops@cs.few.eur.nl (Michel Knops) writes:
>
>Japanese tourists do almost the same thing, but they just take a picture
>of EVERYTHING (and I mean EVERYTHING) to look at it a little closer at
>home! Most don't enjoy the moment.

Agreed. Right now, Asian tourists are the only things holding up our
local economy. :) :(??
The pictures they take, they call "kinen shashin," which means
"commemorative photo." It doesn't mean too much for them to go
someplace, but to show to others back home as proof that they were
there. That's why if you look closely, they never take photos of
scenery unless the people are in the shot. This _proves_ the subjects
were there in person. This is most important. However, they usually
don't pose. Just standing there is all the proof the neighbors need.



--
A. Lani Teshima, UH School of Library & Info Studies   o | /_/_/ "Sea Hare"
A small mind is easily filled with faith.               o|<0_0>--------*
Blessed is a mind too small for doubt.                    \=^-| |____| | 
teshima@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.edu                                 \_}B   \_}B