HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: davidc@montagar.com (David L. Cathey)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: Football Failures at Bowie Force end of Season
Date: 12 Nov 92 04:00:53 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: Montagar Software Concepts, Plano TX

In article <1992Nov10.001336.13963@watson.ibm.com>, johniac@austin.ibm.com (John Iacoletti/100000) writes:
> fred j mccall 575-3539 (mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com) wrote:
> : Because, John, if they can't make a living I'm faced with the choice
> : of having to either support them, arrest them, or bury them (or
> : perhaps some combination of those).
> 
> Actually you don't have to do any of these three.
> 

	Well, I think my accountant might disagree with you on that point when
we send that check to the IRS...

> : but people who
> : didn't learn how to DO anything don't simply go away.  They become
> : problems for the rest of us, even under that social Darwinism that you
> : favor. 
> 
> Only because you choose to assume responsibility for them.  This is great:
> You insist that we spend public money to take care of people and then you
> complain when you have to take care of people.

	I agree with Fred on this point, and you seem to be missing it
completely with this statement.  We are not complaining about constructive
uses of our taxes (schools, education), but we don't like having to spend
on negative uses (jails, prisons, etc).

> : This flies in the face
> : of all that 'free market forces' jazz that you espouse, since it tells
> : them they can have the 'good' part (the rewards) without doing the
> : part that they're supposed to be doing (the curriculum).
> 
> That doesn't sound like "free market" to me.  In a educational free market,
> the students would decide just what they were supposed to be doing, and what
> the "good parts" are, and hopefully they would be the same thing.

	Sure it is, but you obviously assume that "free market" has emphasis
on "free".  Free Market is that goods are available, and you are free to
take advantage of them if you are willing to pay market cost.  We are just
defining market cost.  You have the right to pursue happiness, but that doesn't
mean that the school system has to guarantee it for you.

> John Iacoletti       IBM AWS Austin       Internet: johniac@austin.ibm.com
>         My opinions do not reflect the views of the IBM Corporation
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
David L. Cathey		                |INET: davidc@montagar.com
Montagar Software Concepts              |UUCP: ...!montagar!davidc
P. O. Box 260772, Plano TX  75026-0772  |Fone: (214)-618-2117
From: tom@europa.lonestar.org (Tom Kimball)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: Clinton has won...watch your pocket!
Date: 12 Nov 92 01:44:07 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: Moria Mining Guild (BBS) -- Dallas, Texas, USA

In article <1992Nov10.172820.24471@cpqhou.compaq.com> thomasr@cpqhou.compaq.com (Thomas Rush) writes:
>In article <1992Nov9.062220.6644@europa.lonestar.org> tom@europa.lonestar.org (Tom Kimball) writes:
>>In article <21814@rpp386.lonestar.org> jfh@rpp386.cactus.org (John F. Haugh II) writes:
>>
>>>everyone has re-learned how to play the tax shelter game (and I have a
>>>few in mind that will never be illegal), we should see a deficit out
>>>of the Clinton administration that makes the $292B '92 deficit look
>>>tiny.
>>
>>There is no way he could tripple the average budget deficit in 4 years like 
>>the Republicans did.  I remember the Republicans rightly criticizing those 
>>horrible $50 billion deficits of the Carter years.
>
>I'm betting that he can.  Here's my official projection of a $1 Trillion
>deficit in Clinton's forth budget.

And here's my official projection that the Sun will explode that same year.

I guess that official projections don't count for much on Usenet.
-- 
Tom Kimball  			tom@europa.lerctr.org    
tom@europa.lonestar.org		tom%europa@egsner.cirr.com
Newsgroups: tx.politics
From: wrr3118@tamsun.tamu.edu (Rick Russell)
Subject: Re: High Gas Tax
Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 07:27:41 GMT

In article <21837@rpp386.lonestar.org> jfh@rpp386.lonestar.org (John F. Haugh II) writes:
>CO2 is NOT bad.  CO2 is plant food.  Plants need CO2 like animals
>need O2.

Ah, the old argument. Plants like CO2, so it's not a problem. BZZT!
Plants will ONLY absorb more CO2 if there are no other limiting
factors on their growth.

>But we've not even reached the limits.  Producing 4% of the global CO2
>is NOT reaching the limit.

That's 4% more than the climate system is designed to absorb. Do
yourself a favor. Plug some numbers into a spreadsheet and attach a 4%
constant growth rate. See how many years it will take for the amount
of CO2 to double. Triple. Quadruple. I think you'll be surprised.

>Look - you're children will NEVER know a blue sunset.  I remember when
>the adage was "Red sky at night, sailors delight.  Red sky at morning,
>sailors take warning."  Now it's "Red sky at night, period."  Man did
>not do this.  In 100 years of the internal combustion engine, man did
>not manage to do this.  Some volcano in the PI did it.

John's anecdotal evidence clearly proves his point. I bow humbly to his
scientific acumen.

>  Termites are
>making more CO2 than you and I.

No, industrial emission of CO2 far exceeds termite emissions of CO2.

>  Cow farts make more CH4 than you and I.

Also factually incorrect. Enteric fermentaion (i.e. animal digestion)
accounts for far less CH4 in the atmosphere than human-planted rice
paddies, the single largest source of CH4 on this planet.

See the IPCC's 1990 report if you want to know more. The 1992 update
is out; haven't had a chance to read it (yet).

-- 
#      Rick Russell | TAMU Meteorology | wrr3118@tamsun.tamu.edu       # 
#      This netnews message has been brought to you by the number 3!   #
Newsgroups: tx.politics
From: johniac@austin.ibm.com (John Iacoletti/100000)
Subject: Re: Bush Vetoes Stupid Education Reform Bill
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 92 16:59:07 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: IBM T. J. Watson Research
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

Joe Mullally (rocky@NeoSoft.com) wrote:
: 	I think you give in too easily on this one, Griff. By definition,
: it is arguable that atheism (denial of the existence of God) is not
: a religion, no doubt. But, is it religious?

Since your definition of atheism is incorrect, it would tend to render the
rest of your analysis moot.  Yeah, I know that's what your dictionary says,
but dictionaries aren't written by atheists.  For one thing "denial" connotes
that the thing you're denying is true and you just won't admit it.  For another
thing almost all people who call themselves atheists disbelieve in the 
existence of gods, because of the lack of evidence for such.  This is much 
different from saying that gods do not exist, which would be a statement of
faith.  If you are really interested in this, you might look for the FAQ from
alt.atheism.

--
John Iacoletti       IBM AWS Austin       Internet: johniac@austin.ibm.com
        My opinions do not reflect the views of the IBM Corporation
"When you're following an angel, does it mean you have to throw your body off a 
 building?" -- TMBG
Newsgroups: tx.politics
From: johniac@austin.ibm.com (John Iacoletti/100000)
Subject: Re: Clinton has won...watch your pocket!
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 17:44:45 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: IBM Advanced Workstations and Systems, Austin, TX
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

Tom Kimball (tom@europa.lonestar.org) wrote:
: "Only the little people pay taxes".  Where have we heard that one before?  

If you are referring to Mrs. Helmsley, she never said that.

--
John Iacoletti       IBM AWS Austin       Internet: johniac@austin.ibm.com
        My opinions do not reflect the views of the IBM Corporation
    "Egad, a base tone denotes a bad age" -- TMBG   "I Palindrome I"
Newsgroups: tx.politics
From: hari@NeoSoft.com (Doug Andersen)
Subject: Re: Protectionism and Japan
Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900
Distribution: usa,tx
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 15:19:39 GMT

In article <BxKvp9.GBs@NeoSoft.com>, rocky@NeoSoft.com (Joe Mullally) writes:
> 	Agreed. I don't see it as gov't interference any more than 
> I would our army defending our shores from invaders as interference.
> Truly. I certainly want T.I. to be able to make a fair profit. BTW, 
> I sell Microlasers. They are very reasonably priced, well built,
> and compatible. Good stuff. Now, if one should blow up on a customer,
> and kill him/her, would that be one that you built? You did say you
> build the stuff that kills people, no? (Okay, so I don't even deserve a
> smiley).
 
That's a pretty strange view of trade ("defending our shores from
invaders").  Again, who wins and who loses when the government blocks
imports.  The domestic industry wins, the consumers (whether they are
other companies or individual people) in the U.S. lose.
 
Dumping is simply a way for US companies to get the government to do their
work for them.
-- 
Doug Andersen
hari@Sugar.NeoSoft.com
From: gordon@sneaky.lonestar.org (Gordon Burditt)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: Fix this damn country
Date: 10 Nov 92 02:34:41 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: Gordon Burditt

>Bush tried that in 1990.  As you'll recall, there was a stretch when
>the "optional" parts of government all closed down while Bush and Congress
>worked out at "The Budget Summit".  

This sounds like an excellent idea.  Why don't we try it for, say, 4 years?
The "Budget Summit" should be considered "optional" and be dispensed with.
It's an excellent argument for more gridlock.

					Gordon L. Burditt
					sneaky.lonestar.org!gordon
From: curt@ekhadafi.austin.ibm.com (Curt Finch 903 2F021 curt@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com 512-838-2806)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: ZUNI RESERVATION: REDUCING DROPOUTS, RAISING TEST SCORES
Date: 9 Nov 92 20:22:03 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: IBM AWD, Austin


         =====  GOAL TWO:  HIGH SCHOOL COMPLETION  =====

*2   ZUNI RESERVATION:  REDUCING DROPOUTS, RAISING TEST SCORES
     Public schools on the Zuni Indian Reservation in N.M. have
reduced their drop-out rates and raised test scores (AMERICA 2000
Daily Conference Call).  The Zuni Public Schools also received an
A+ for Breaking the Mold Award "for helping students learn about
their native culture while they work toward the national
education goals," said Ed Sec Lamar Alexander.
     The Zuni Public School District was created in 1980 after
separating from a larger district.  The Zuni Tribe created its
own school system due to concerns over the lack of parental
involvement, according to Zuni Schools Supt. Hayes Lewis.
     Lewis says test scores improved, the drop-out rate was
reduced and teenage suicides were eliminated after the change.
The drop-out rate was 43.6% in 1980, but last year it was only
7.6%, according to Lewis.  The rate has been below 10% for the
last five years.
     Barbara Gordon, principal of Ashiwi Elementary on the
reservation, said the changes are partly due to the "strong
focus" on professional development.  School days are
"considerably longer" four days a week, so that students can go
home at 1:30pm on Wednesdays.  Teachers, parents and community
members then use Wednesday afternoons for addressing the
educational needs of the community.
     Native Americans comprise 98% of the district's students,
many of whom have little experience away from the reservation.
The district helps students experience other cultures by sending
fifth-graders on a week-long exchange with students in Berkeley,
Calif. The students live with African-American and Asian-American
families for the week.  And Zuni H.S. students participate in a
three-week exchange with German students (11/6).


-- 
--
curt@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com (Curt L. Finch) | AIX NFS/NIS Field Quality 
My views are unrelated to those of IBM     |        Austin, TX
 - Begin means testing of Social Security, Medicare and Farm Subsidies now. -
From: mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: CSPAN Voter Manipulation
Date: 11 Nov 92 14:19:50 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: Texas Instruments Inc

In <21845@rpp386.lonestar.org> jfh@rpp386.lonestar.org (John F. Haugh II) writes:

>In article <BxDL1H.M0A@NeoSoft.com> hari@NeoSoft.com (Doug Andersen) writes:
>>That's one reason Bush lost.  He continued to parrot the line that there
>>was no recession (true), and made it clear he didn't understand the
>>problem people are having.  There's no recession, but there is no recovery
>>either.  In the past almost all jobs lost in recessions were gained back
>>in the first 16 months of the recovery.  This time, only 15% of the jobs
>>have been recovered.  
> 
>Sorry, but that just isn't true.  As of last week or so, 100% of all jobs
>lost during the recession have been "recovered".  Not in the same places
>and not for the same people, but the number of people who are currently
>employed is equal to, or greater than, the number of people who were
>employed in July, '90.

In raw numbers, this is probably true.  However, the workforce hasn't
been so obliging as to not to grow over those years.  In addition,
income has gone DOWN; this indicates that if there are the same number
of jobs, the new jobs are paid much less money.  This is progress?

>>> If I had a nickel for every news magazine article that was favorable
>>> of Clinton and completely ignored the environmental and economic
>>> damage he did to Arkansas I could probably buy a new UNIX book or two.
>> 
>>What economic damage did he do to Arkansas?  

>Arkansas STILL ranks anywheres from 41st to 49th in economy, education,
>health, environment, basic services, etc.  Arkansas is STILL the hick
>capital of America.  Except that since Bill Clinton was elected Governor,
>more people are paying MORE taxes to fund the "Industrial Expansion" Bill
>Clinton gave Arkansas - the one he funded through tax breaks for his
>political supporters ...

All very nice, but where was it BEFORE he took over?  The question was
what economic damage Bill Clinton did to Arkansas.  Perhaps you should
answer it instead of echoing silly neo-con Republican FUD of the sort
that helped cost Busb the election?

-- 
"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live
 in the real world."   -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fred.McCall@dseg.ti.com - I don't speak for others and they don't speak for me.
Newsgroups: tx.politics
From: hari@NeoSoft.com (Doug Andersen)
Subject: Re: TEXAS SCHOOL FINANCE: GRAPPLING WITH FAIR SHARE PLAN
Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900
Distribution: tx
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 21:32:08 GMT

In article <1992Nov12.131839.26463@mksol.dseg.ti.com>, mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539) writes:
> seen runs like this.  First they will tell you that it's not
> necessary, because money doesn't adversely affect the quality of the
> education received by those who have the misfortune to live in the
> poor districts.  Given that premise, they then go on to assert that
 
Money does matter, but if managed correctly you can still have a good
school district.  It's just tougher.  The problem is that people look at
wealthy school districts and note how good the schools are.  The problem
with that analysis is that it ignores the fact that wealthy school 
districts are also filled with kids whose parents are educated and who
make sure that kids attend school and do their homework.  There is also
some peer pressure at work as the expectation (from both parents and the
other students) is that most kids will go to college.  That's a byproduct
of the wealth, but it can't be transfered simply by giving more money to
the school district.
 
> Now, the question.  *IF*, as they say, the poor districts get the same
> quality of education as the wealthy ones and money is irrelevant, WHY
> WOULD THEY HAVE TO MAKE UP THE DIFFERENCE?  They will then get
> belligerent, of course, because they don't have a good answer that
> doesn't invalidate at least one of their premises.
 
I've never heard anyone assert that the quality of education is the same
in poor and wealthy school districts.  I have heard people assert that
they have the right to keep their school funding local, and that if people
are willing to pay more taxes, they should be able to have the kind of
schools they want.
 
> So, I'm curious.  For people who oppose such a plan, just how do they
> propose to give the same educational opportunities to the student in a
> poor district as are available to one in a wealthy district?  Note
> that moving to the wealthy district is generally not an available
> option. 
 
Poor schools districts will have to work harder.  They'll have to cut down
on frills (all schools have frills) and work smarter.  From the recent
audit of schools it appears we have a lot of frills to cut.  You have a
school district in South Texas whose administrative costs are 123% of 
teaching costs.
-- 
Doug Andersen
hari@Sugar.NeoSoft.com
From: jfh@rpp386.lonestar.org (John F. Haugh II)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: CSPAN Voter Manipulation
Date: 8 Nov 92 17:36:56 GMT
Reply-To: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org (John F. Haugh II)
Distribution: tx
Organization: Los Tejanos SCUBA Club and Beer Joint, Austin, Tejas

In article <BxDL1H.M0A@NeoSoft.com> hari@NeoSoft.com (Doug Andersen) writes:
>That's one reason Bush lost.  He continued to parrot the line that there
>was no recession (true), and made it clear he didn't understand the
>problem people are having.  There's no recession, but there is no recovery
>either.  In the past almost all jobs lost in recessions were gained back
>in the first 16 months of the recovery.  This time, only 15% of the jobs
>have been recovered.  
 
Sorry, but that just isn't true.  As of last week or so, 100% of all jobs
lost during the recession have been "recovered".  Not in the same places
and not for the same people, but the number of people who are currently
employed is equal to, or greater than, the number of people who were
employed in July, '90.

What you are probably talking about is jobs that have been obsolete or
which were shown to be unneeded.  During the Reagan/Bush era, people had
more dollars than sense and often paid outrageous amounts of money for
stupid trinkets.  Many of those jobs have been lost, as have jobs that
paper pushers held.  We no longer have room in our economy for waste, and
those people will simply have to adjust.

People who make buggy whips are out of work.  Get over it.  No one rides
in buggies anymore.

>> If I had a nickel for every news magazine article that was favorable
>> of Clinton and completely ignored the environmental and economic
>> damage he did to Arkansas I could probably buy a new UNIX book or two.
> 
>What economic damage did he do to Arkansas?  

Arkansas STILL ranks anywheres from 41st to 49th in economy, education,
health, environment, basic services, etc.  Arkansas is STILL the hick
capital of America.  Except that since Bill Clinton was elected Governor,
more people are paying MORE taxes to fund the "Industrial Expansion" Bill
Clinton gave Arkansas - the one he funded through tax breaks for his
political supporters ...
-- 
John F. Haugh II                  [  TSAKC  ] !'s: ...!cs.utexas.edu!rpp386!jfh
Ma Bell: (512) 251-2151           [ DoF #17 ]        @'s: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org
Newsgroups: tx.politics
From: johniac@austin.ibm.com (John Iacoletti/100000)
Subject: Re: ... isn't worth a damn in this town.
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 18:35:58 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: IBM Advanced Workstations and Systems, Austin, TX
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

Dewey Coffman (dewey@vpdbox.austin.ibm.com) wrote:
: 	Many were upset that Jake "Entitlement" Pickle got re-elected. But
: 	it's over and he's there for a couple more years. So why not work
: 	with him or start a campaign to work with him or oust him. Hopefully,
: 	this election got people interested in working on the problems, not
: 	just complaining about them.(present company excluded)

I'm convinced that Jake is unbeatable and will probably be in office until
he dies.  I think the Republican party has conceded this and doesn't spend
any effort on this race.  Had I been eligible to vote in this race, I would've
seen no reason to vote for Herbert either.

"Being youw Congwessman is a sacwed twust that only YOU can bestow" 

Give me a Bweak.

--
John Iacoletti       IBM AWS Austin       Internet: johniac@austin.ibm.com
        My opinions do not reflect the views of the IBM Corporation
    "Egad, a base tone denotes a bad age" -- TMBG   "I Palindrome I"
From: jfh@rpp386.lonestar.org (John F. Haugh II)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: Protectionism and Japan
Date: 5 Nov 92 13:51:40 GMT
Reply-To: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org (John F. Haugh II)
Distribution: usa,tx
Organization: Los Tejanos SCUBA Club and Beer Joint, Austin, Tejas

In article <Bx8BoE.Bx@NeoSoft.com> hari@NeoSoft.com (Doug Andersen) writes:
>Well, there's "costs" and there are "costs".  It's amazing that Japanese
>companies are able to produce lower-cost products, even if the factories
>are in the US and use US workers.  More than often "below cost" means
>"below the costs of what the US companies estimates the costs are".

You are ignoring one very crucial fact - many of these Japanese companies
are selling below cost ACCORDING TO THE JAPANESE GOVERNMENT!  There are
quite a few news stories about Japanese companies subsidizing their exports
on the backs of Japanese consumers.
-- 
John F. Haugh II                  [  TSAKC  ] !'s: ...!cs.utexas.edu!rpp386!jfh
Ma Bell: (512) 251-2151           [ DoF #17 ]        @'s: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org
Newsgroups: tx.politics
From: hari@NeoSoft.com (Doug Andersen)
Subject: Re: CSPAN Voter Manipulation
Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900
Distribution: tx
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 22:30:44 GMT

In article <21845@rpp386.lonestar.org>, jfh@rpp386.lonestar.org (John F. Haugh II) writes:
> Sorry, but that just isn't true.  As of last week or so, 100% of all jobs
> lost during the recession have been "recovered".  Not in the same places
> and not for the same people, but the number of people who are currently
> employed is equal to, or greater than, the number of people who were
> employed in July, '90.
 
First of all, what's your source?  Second, there is plenty of data that
show people voted against Bush because they didn't they he understood the
problem.  
 
> Arkansas STILL ranks anywheres from 41st to 49th in economy, education,
> health, environment, basic services, etc.  Arkansas is STILL the hick
> capital of America.  Except that since Bill Clinton was elected Governor,
> more people are paying MORE taxes to fund the "Industrial Expansion" Bill
> Clinton gave Arkansas - the one he funded through tax breaks for his
> political supporters ...
 
Perhaps you didn't read my question John.  I said "what economic damage
did he do to Arkansas"?  Giving me point data won't answer that question. 
In order to prove your point you have to show that Arkansas is in worse
shape than it was when he became governor.  
-- 
Doug Andersen
hari@Sugar.NeoSoft.com