HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: u-lchoqu%peruvian@hellgate.utah.edu (Lee Choquette)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Fasting
Date: 31 Jul 92 07:07:44 GMT
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept

In article <Jul.30.03.48.13.1992.11723@dartagnan.rutgers.edu>
alisonjw@spider.co.uk (Alison J Wyld) writes:
 > It seems pretty clear to me that the Bible assumes that Christians will
 > fast.  I have also read a couple of articles on the subject, particulary in
 > "Celebration of Discipline" that have been enough to convince me that this
 > discipline does have a place in the Christian life.

I agree that the Bible assumes the practice of fasting.  I usually fast once a
month, sometimes more often if I'm praying for something particular.  I've
fasted monthly since I was a child, although during periods of heavy labor I
fasted less than 24 hours, and I rarely fast longer than 24 hours.  I find
fasting, when I do it with a goal in mind, to be a good way of putting myself
in a more humble frame of mind, more sincere in petitioning the Lord.  On these
occasions it also clears my mind so I can better receive the guidance of the
Holy Spirit.

More of the time than I would like, though, I must confess, I don't have a
particular goal in mind, and fasting is more just an exercise in starving.
Although fasting does have its physical benefits, flushing toxins from the
body, I would prefer to be doing it as a spiritual exercise.  I started fasting
as a practice of my church (Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints or
``Mormons''), and when one doesn't have a particular reason for the fast, the
church recommends making it a fast for the poor by giving the money one would
otherwise have spent on food.  Of course, this action can also become rote if
you let it, but so can prayer and anything else you care to name.

 > However I also have a doubt in my mind as to whether it would be a good
 > thing for me to do [...] I find it hard to resume normal eating after a
 > fast.  I tend to go into a binge/starve cycle that last a few days.

I haven't had any problems with the binge/starve cycle, although that could be
because I'm used to fasting or because I don't fast for long periods.  My
father fasted for long periods, like 48 hours or even longer, and although he
didn't mention any eating problems resulting from them, I suspect he may have
had them.  He certainly didn't lose any weight from his protracted fasts.

Maybe instead of long fasts at long intervals, you should try shorter fasts at
shorter intervals, and you may not have as many eating problems.  Of course,
this isn't a mathematical formula -- a short fast may not be time enough for
you to enjoy any spiritual benefits.

I'd like to hear more on this topic.  This is my first posting to this
newsgroup, so I apologize if I trod on any toes.
  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
   . . . . Lee Choquette . . . . . . . . . Finno-Swedish-American  . . . . . .
  . . u-lchoqu@peruvian.utah.edu. . . . . .  with a French name . . . . . . .
 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . and Russian relatives. . . . . .
From: s925889@numbat.cs.rmit.oz.au (Steve Sonneman)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: 'Mixed' Dating
Date: 23 Jul 92 07:09:03 GMT

This is my first posting to this group.
Hi Guys!!!

I have not read all of the correspondence on this in detail, so I hope that I
don't repeat anything already mentioned.

My first and very simple argument against mixed (or even missionary dating) is
this:
Going out and dating implies having things in common, and spending lots of time
with each other talking, sharing and enjoying those things. Although I have been
tempted at times, I find it hard to imagine going out with someone with whom I
do not have the most important thing in my life in common, and that applies 
especially to marriage. Because my faith is very important to me, that is what
I like to talk about, it is a central thing in my life. Much of my life (eg how
I spend my time etc.) revolves around my faith. I dont see why it should not be 
the same for all christians (although I realise that that is not always the 
case). There should be fundamental differences in thinking, basic disagreements
that really can't be resolved. (To put it bluntly, how can you have a close 
relationship with someone when you both know that you think that they're going 
to hell!?!). To have disagreements, incompatabilities, and different priorities
about such fundamental and important things starts a relationship off on a very
bad footing indeed.

To qualify this, I'm not saying that you can't have a close relationship with
a non-christian, but that because of the nature of the differences in belief, 
there always will (should be?) a difficulty/strain on that relationship, which
makes things difficult.

I understand that all relationships will have some degree of conflict, and that
part of the relationship involves working through this, but the question that 
needs to be asked is whether it is possible to work through these confilcts 
and resolve them, and the onlu way to solve this particular conflict is for
one person to change (which I am all in favour of providing that it is the
non-christian, which is not particularly fair to them!!).

I also understand that life is not always simple, ansd that our heart rules 
many decisions that we make more than our head. Despite what I have said, I
still think that it is an individual thing between you and God. God has given
us guidelines (ie dont be unequally yolked... etc) and common sense (my 
argument), and leaves us to make decisions on the basis of these.

To restate my point, you go out with someone because, among other things, you
both have something in common, how can you go out with someone with whom you
disagree about the most important thing of all?

I hope that this has cast some light on the discussion, I look forward to 
hearing your reactions/ideas/objections to what I have said. I am happy for
people to e-mail me directly if they wish.

in Christ
Steve Sonneman
(s925889@numbat.cs.rmit.oz.au)
I havent worked out how to do a .sig yet, I'd be happy for someone to explain
it to me!!!
From: dwaddell@pyrman2.mis.pyramid.com (David Waddell)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Thankyou
Date: 26 Jul 92 19:58:48 GMT

I wish to thank everyone publicy who sent their help and prayers during this
difficult time for my family. 

Special thanks to Brian C. and Ruth D.
From: brown@ncoast.org (Stan Brown)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Parable?
Date: 26 Jul 92 20:20:28 GMT
Organization: Oak Road Systems, Cleveland Ohio USA

In article <Jul.23.03.08.34.1992.12298@dumas.rutgers.edu> acsormd@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Randall Desmond) writes:
>In article <Jul.22.02.08.32.1992.13595@dumas.rutgers.edu>, kemery@nmsu.edu writes...
>>For reference,  when I was in college at New Mexico Tech,  I was
>>witnessing to my best friend.  We had talked for many months,  and
>>didn't seem to be getting anywhere.  One day we were out golfing,
>
>	Well, the reason I asked whether you said the pray in
>	Jesus' name was because I didn't. I'm Muslim. My club
>	is the Muslim Student Organization, and I, too, believe
>	it wasn't just coincidence.

This is an excellent illustration.  Quite a few people responded to my
article about doubting Thomas with statements that boiled down to
Christianity being "obviously" true.  Most of those mentioned the world
as evidence, incontrovertible evidence.

The response just quoted illustrates the problem with that approach.
"The world" is equally good evidence for any religion, or for none. (*)

People who think they have proved anything by saying "it's obvious"
might want to reflect that until relatively few years ago it was
"obvious" that the earth was flat.  

There's an interesting story that I heard long ago of a physics
professor.  He was lecturing away, chalking up equation after equation.
Pausing for breath, he said "It is therefore obvious that" and chalked
yet another equation.  He was beginning the next when suddenly he broke
off, muttered "wait a minute", grabbed pencil and paper and began
scribbling furiously as the students watched.  Half an hour later he
looked up and announced triumphantly, "I was right.  It _is_ obvious!"

(*) That is not to say that "the world" disproves Christianity, or any
other religion for that matter.  It is simply not a resolution of the
question either way.  If you already have faith, you will see many
aspects of the world as confirming that faith.  If you do not, then
whether you are actively opposed to Christianity or simply trying as
best you can to find the truth, you will not see those same aspects as
proving anything.

-- 
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems                      brown@Ncoast.ORG

"Tariff, n.  A scale of taxes on imports, designed to protect the
domestic producer against the greed of his consumer."  --Ambrose Bierce
From: ca-mc580@andy.bgsu.edu ([Alvaro C. Calabia})
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Books on The Passion??
Date: 21 Jul 92 07:25:23 GMT
Organization: Bowling Green State University B.G., Oh.

I would appreciate suggestions on books that study The Passion of Our
Lord from any given angle (prayer or spirituality, tradition, 
interpretation,...)

Thanks,
Alvaro
From: hechtel@meteor.wisc.edu (Leslie Hechtel)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Ourselves (was Re: Bisexuals
Date: 23 Jul 92 07:34:57 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin, Meteorology and Space Science

[I suggested in a comment that I've heard little position discussion
of sexual ethics from the homosexual side.  Louie Crew responded that
s.r.c is a war zone, and we cannot expect people to discuss so
beautiful and vulnerable a thing as a lesbigay Christian partnership.

>I would not expect to find nearly as much discussion of the quality of 
>relationships here on soc.religion.christian.   Here the discussion almost
>always focuses on rules, not on persons.        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>I grieve when I read all the words heterosexualists spill forth on sex
>here on soc.religion.christian.  Most of it is joyless and frightened and
>territorial.                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 ^^^^^^^^^^^
>Most of what I read from heterosexualist Christians about sex suggests they 
>think it is dirty but necessary.  They seem to believe that earth is really 
                                                             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>not a nice place to be, that heaven is the only place to strive for.
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
--clh]


I have already written to Louie in private, to thank him for sharing
himself here.  This is for the rest, for 'us'.

What Louie tells us about lesbigay Christians, and about himself in
particular, are very important.  I have no doubt others will address
those aspects of his post.

I want to focus on the truth he speaks about us, about s.r.c.

This is frequently not a friendly, loving place.  All to frequently,
this is a place for the bean-counters, the rigid, the rule-bound.

Which is not that beans are bad, that structure is bad, that rules
are to be tossed aside on all whims.

But, people, wake up!  Christ came to us out of God's love!  To *us*!
The wonderful yet broken people that we are!  On this lovely if 
not-quite-perfect world!

And too many of us sit here debating whether we Christians should
go bowling with non-Christians, whether a woman whose husband is
beating her should stay yoked to him until her death (which may
well be at his hands), whether the devil has come to us in the 
form of bar codes or John Paul II.

How many people come here, read, are disgusted by the tension
and bickering they see, and leave unsatisfied?  How many stay,
but dare not post for the earthly flames that will follow?  How
many find, like Mike Bushnell did several months ago, that reading
s.r.c. too often saps the joy from their steps?


We have met the enemy, and the enemy is us.

Leslie

p.s.  I will be unable to read this board or respond to email for
3.5 weeks starting Friday 7/24.

-- 
Leslie M. Hechtel
Dept. of Meteorology
1225 W. Dayton St.
Madison  WI  53706            Internet:hechtel@meteor.wisc.edu
From: mpaul@unlinfo.unl.edu (marxhausen paul)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Thanks for the discussion
Date: 26 Jul 92 20:19:15 GMT
Organization: University of Nebraska - Lincoln

I would just like to thank s.r.c. readers and our moderator for engaging
in one of the more thoughtful and careful threads on homosexuality in
quite a while.  Generally these threads tend to degenerate into white-hot
flame-fests that the moderator has to shut down, but this time there have
been many contributions that have helped me ponder deeply on these issues
while I try to find my way.  

-- 
===============================================================================
paul marxhausen                              \/               grace 
university of nebraska - lincoln             /\              happens           
===============================================================================
From: Malachi.Robertson@lambada.oit.unc.edu (Malachi Robertson)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Eternal Security? (Was Re: Dispensationalism: Distinctives of Church)
Date: 26 Jul 92 20:26:59 GMT
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service

I just wanted reemphasize the parable of the sower and its relation to
this subject...

"This is the meaning of the parable:  The seed is the word of God.  Those
along the path are the ones who hear, and then the devil comes and takes
away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved."
This text from Luke 8:11-12 points out how believing is related to being
saved and this is consistent with other Biblical texts.  Now note the
following verse 13.
"Those on the rock are the ones who receive the word with joy when they
hear it, but they have no root.  They BELIEVE FOR A WHILE, but in the time
of testing they fall away."  In other words, they appear to be saved for a
time yet lose salvation when testing comes.  Does this mean it is taken
from them?  I think not, but it does mean that they consciously choose
against God.

I also like the verses mentioned from Hebrews.  Related to this is King
Saul.  Here was a man who once spoke as moved by the Spirit, yet he became
a man who actively disobeyed God.  As such the Lord left him:  "Saul was
afraid of David, because the LORD was with David but had left Saul" I
Samuel 18:12.  As such, when Saul saught answers from the Lord he only got
silence; he then turned to spirits for advice in utter disobedience.  Saul
at one time in obedience to God's commands had outlawed those involved
with spiritism, but now here he was going to one of the very people he
outlawed.  It is interesting to note that Chapter 28 of I Samuel
emphasizes this latter part three times. 

God is surely mighty enough to keep one of His children in His possession,
but how can He do this if turn away from Him?

"Malachi" Ian Robertson Brown
--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
From: rls@dexnet.uucp (Ron Skrabanek)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: 2 Peter 1:1-4
Date: 28 Jul 92 06:17:07 GMT
Organization: The Order of the Albino Pachyderm

Grace and Peace is a very standard greeting, but it is especially 
appropriate in the Christian context, for they are key players in God's 
dealing with us. It is by His grace that we are His children and it is 
the peace with Him established by Christ that makes it all possible. 
Lose sight of grace and legalism takes hold; lose sight of peace and 
strife enters. A focus on Christ and what He has given to us might 
multiply the grace and peace in our lives and give us enough to share 
with others.

God has given to us everything pertaining to life and godliness, by His 
divine power.  This "everything" is supplied through the true knowledge 
of Christ. And this is another reason why we ought to seek Him with all 
we have. "Study to show yourself approved, a workman that needth not be 
ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of Truth"(Timothy 2:15). Study to 
learn of Christ -- the written word He has delivered to us, the 
creation He has place around us, and the knowledge passed down from 
those who have studied before us. Admittedly, we all use different 
paths, but one thing is sure, "without faith it is impossible to please 
him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is 
a rewarder of them that diligently seek him"(Hebrews 11:6).

God has granted us many promises, so that we might "partake of divine 
nature," escaping from the corruption of the world. I do not think this 
is a reference to perfection, but to godliness. We do not become divine 
in nature, but a more accurate reflection of His -- as we are intended 
to be. God has done much to restore the image of God in fallen man. We 
are to reflect His grace and peace to the world. rls

dexnet!rls@zgnews.lonestar.org  (Ron Skrabanek)
From: mike@boulder.wrc.unr.edu (Mike McCormick)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Prophetic Word
Date: 29 Jul 92 08:52:50 GMT
Reply-To: mike@boulder.wrc.unr.edu (Mike McCormick)
Organization: Desert Research Institute, Las Vegas, NV

In article <Jul.28.02.59.52.1992.24846@dartagnan.rutgers.edu> mv0t+@andrew.cmu.edu (Meg Alison Veily) writes:
>Last Thursday (7/23) God laid a word on my heart, and after a weekend of
> ...
>"The Lord says: The time has come to end the divisiveness in My church.
>locations and cultures. Seek this greater unity with your brothers and
>sisters. Then My Spirit will be poured out upon you, and you will
>accomplish mighty things for My Kingdom."
>




What an encouragement!  My pastor has had a real burden the last several months
for unity in the body of Christ here in Las Vegas.  I've printed your post
and will share it with him.  I know he'll be encouraged.  Thanks for the
post.


Mike
From: bobc@hrcce.att.com (Robert V Kemp)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Scofield Courses from MBI
Date: 28 Jul 92 07:21:07 GMT
Organization: AT&T

Does anyone have knowledge about the Scofield Bible study
courses offered by the Moody Bible Institute?  From what I
have read, Scofield wrote his correspondence courses before he
worked on his study Bible.  I have been using a Scofield NIV
for several years, and enjoy it very much.  I am interested in
the courses offered by Moody, but have no wish to waste my
time or money on them if the Scofield study Bible contains
similar information.  Any information would be appreciated.

Bob Kemp
AT&T
bobc@hrcce.att.com
From: zlsiida@fs1.mcc.ac.uk (dave budd)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Sins-of-flesh
Date: 30 Jul 92 07:44:24 GMT
Organization: Manchester Computing Centre

In article <Jul.28.03.35.51.1992.25497@dartagnan.rutgers.edu> eng30148@nusunix2.nus.sg (_) writes:


>       I know of many christians,including myself who are still weak in
>this area.At times doubts about own salvation come into an christian's
>mind as he keeps going back to his bad habbits.....lust in the mind.

>       What is your views about Musturbation?Sometimes, it does help
>curbing our mind from straying too much.

>       Please pray for strength to resist such temptation.  

If you take the view that animals are sinless, not having eaten of the fruit 
of the tree of knowledge (=achieving consciousness?), then notice that 
several species other than man also masturbate, does it help or just confuse 
the issue further?

+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
|  I don't take part in any sport that requires me to change clothes  |
|  Dave Budd, MCC, Oxford Rd, Manchester, England   (44)061-275-6033  |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+

[It's not clear that it's relevant.  Many animals also kill other
animals.  This doesn't make murder right.  We don't decide on the
morality of actions depending upon whether we can find animals that do
them. As you point out, actions for us have a rather different
moral context.  --clh]
From: HOLFELTZ@LSTC2VM.stortek.com
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: 2 Peter 1: 1-4
Date: 30 Jul 92 08:02:46 GMT
Organization: StorageTek SW Engineering

In article <Jul.28.02.17.06.1992.24429@dartagnan.rutgers.edu>
rls@dexnet.uucp (Ron Skrabanek) writes:
>
>Grace and Peace is a very standard greeting, but it is especially
>appropriate in the Christian context, for they are key players in God's
>dealing with us. It is by His grace that we are His children and it is
>the peace with Him established by Christ that makes it all possible.
>Lose sight of grace and legalism takes hold; lose sight of peace and
>strife enters. A focus on Christ and what He has given to us might
>multiply the grace and peace in our lives and give us enough to share
>with others.
 
But Ron, you didn't say anything about the "calling and election made sure".
I'm sure there is more to this than what you wrote.  I'd rather believe
this 'C&E' is about some of the meat talked about in Heb. whereas
most of the things in the NT are about the 'milk'.
 
A poor Wayfaring Stranger [some say, a Strange One] in a strange land,
 
 +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
 | Disclaimer: Not my employer's opinion; probably                     |
 |             not your's either!                                      |
 |                                    Try: Roger_Holfeltz@stortek.com  |
 |                                     or: HOLFELTZ@LSTC2VM.stortek.com|
 +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: m23364@mwunix (James Meritt)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Please Prove it to me!
Date: 31 Jul 92 06:07:48 GMT
Organization: Mitre Corporation, McLean VA

[In article <Jul.30.03.47.46.1992.11692@dartagnan.rutgers.edu> 
REXLEX@fnalf.fnal.gov recommended MacDowell's "Evidence that
Demands a Verdict".  --clh]

Oh yuch.  That is a HORRIBLE book.  email requests to me will bet a review of
it.  Note:  The file is over 3500 lines long.  That Josh ever accidently
stumbles onto something  correct is a suprise.

[Another serious problem for a non-Christian is that the book is
basically an outline.  It cites sources, but with little evaluation of
their credibility, etc.  It may be useful as a reference book for
Christians who find its approach convincing.  Indeed I've ocassionally
used it as a reference.  But a non-Christian is probably going to want
something more narrative.  --clh]