From: yu@chang.asd.sgi.com (Yu Chang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: US born kids
Date: 12 Aug 92 18:00:20 GMT
Reply-To: yu@chang.asd.sgi.com (Yu Chang)
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc., Mountain View, CA, USA

In article <1992Aug12.014532.2307@news.columbia.edu>,
cwt2@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Charles W Tang) writes:

|> 
|> My point is, I don't think we've lost much "Taiwanese-ness" by staying
|> here in the States -- but then of course that depends on how you define
|> the term "Taiwanese-ness": does being Taiwanese mean you must care about
|> Taiwanese politics?  Does it mean you must speak Taiwanese?  Does it
|> mean you must like Taiwanese food? ....?

I do care (just a little) about taiwanese (and chinese) politics.
I used to speak fluent taiwanese (born and lived in Kaoshiung until 16).
I like taiwanese food very much and I was lucky to live in california where
I can get all kinds as much as I want.

But that does not mean much to me.

|> "Losing one's
|> root" has to do with the heart, not where the person is physically.

Yes, as a matter of fact I think I am no less "taiwanese-ness" than you
according to your definition.

I guess we are just having different standards/definitions.
I just felt I need to participate more actively.
Please do not feel offended, I am just speaking for myself.

|> >There are people who just do not know or care about what is happening
|> >back home.
|> 
|> Well, there are people like that right in Taiwan too!  I read your
|> article about the two incidents with taxi drivers -- you know why
|> many "native" Taiwanese can't stand wai4-sheng3 ren2?  It's mainly
|> because most (not all, of course) wai-sheng ren don't treat Taiwan
           ^^^^
I hope you agree that it is true decades ago but not any more.
There are some taiwanese (and mainlanders) who do not care at all.

For many years, there have been more taiwanese than mainlanders
	- in the cabinet.
	- in KMT.
	- in all level of goverment positions.

|> as their home!  They don't *care* about Taiwan!  They refuse to
|> repect the Taiwanese culture.  They don't want to be bothered with
|> learning Taiwanese (I mean, would you come to the US, live here for
|> 40+ years, and still not learn English??).  And yet they want to

I used to speak fluent taiwanese. My mother could fool you to believe
she was a native taiwanese. One of my uncle manages many blue-collar
workers, I bet he speaks taiwanese much better than you do.

|> rule Taiwan and treat Taiwanese people as second-class citizens!
|> No wonder wai-sheng ren's are treated this poorly by the Taiwanese.
|> Now, of course, there are wai-sheng ren's who aren't like that --
|> especially the younger generation.  I was only generalizing.  My
                                                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^
It is good that you know this, not a lot of people do.

|> point is simply that it doesn't take someone living overseas to
|> not care about Taiwan.  There are (or used to be) many people like
|> that right in Taiwan.
|> 
|> So, here goes my statement again, it has to do with where your heart
|> is, not where you are physically.
|>
|> [Side note: Actually, I was pretty surprised to see your article
|> about the taxi experiences.  I asked MANY friends in Taiwan what
|> the Taiwanese vs. Out-of-Provincers scene is like nowadays.  Just
|> as expected, they all say that they and their friends don't care
|> about it at all -- meaning that they all get along very well.  But
|> of course I don't know what it's really like in the 'real world'
|> there.

I am sure it was just one single unfortunate incident.
I have a lot of taiwanese friends. My mother-in-law is taiwanese.
My brother and my uncle married taiwanese. I do not feel any pressure
within my social and family circle either.

|> 
|> But I bet that if wai-sheng ren's start to learn Taiwanese -- a
|> sign of respect to and acceptance of Taiwan, Taiwanese people will
|> treat them VERY differently!!]

This I need to clarify. Didn't you just said there is not a lot of people
care much about the differences these days.

Things are changing for the better.
I grew up watching the taiwanese moppet show,

	Is there anyone still remember Hwang2 June4 Shiun2 and his
	Yun Shan Da Ru Shia?

and there are a lot more taiwanese news and programs on TV and radio.

But it is unfair to treat all mainlanders as one group on this matter.
You said not many people care much about this difference, I believe
that based on my own experiences. And yet it is hard for me to believe
the stubborn ones would change even ALL mainlanders speak taiwanese.

I would never try to generalize the situation.
Taiwanes culture has changed evolved a lot in the last 40+ years,
there are different kind of people and different kind of sub-cultures.

|> Wow, a very harsh comment here!!  :-(

I think an apology is in order, do not take that too seriously,
I am only speaking of myself. I have no right and did not intend
to ask you do or feel what I do or feel.

|> Anyway, as for me, I would very much like my kids (not that I have any
|> right now) to know Mandarin and Taiwanese.  I'll probably have them
|> live in Taiwan for the first 11 years of their lives.

You have my best wishes, let me know when it happens.
As for meself, I am working on to get a contract so that I can work in
taiwan for a few month and if it works I will bring my first born with me.

yu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan