From: emc@doe.carleton.ca (Eli Chiprout)
Subject: Jews without Jesus
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 13:53:20 GMT

Many of you have asked me [ :-) ]
so I will answer...

Why Jews should NOT accept Jesus over Moishe Finkelstein:

1. It is impossible to determine for certain
   whether Jesus existed as an individual.  While the
   proof seems reasonable that he did, there are serious
   theses that he did not, but was a story invented to
   continue a secret worship society's database
   (see The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross by John Allegro)

2. If he existed, 
   Jesus preached against what he perceived as religious abuse 
   of his day (even according to the Christian Gospels) and
   did not go about forming a new set of beliefs.  He preached
   the good old Jewish themes of loving God with all your heart
   and loving your neighbour as yourself, something that Judaism
   has accepted long ago.

3. It is debatable whether Jesus himself claimed to be the Messiah,
   even among Christians.  It seem rather that his followers laid
   that claim upon him.  But this is nothing new, and was seen to
   happen with other Jewish individuals throughout history, especially
   in times of political turmoil and uncertainty.

4. Any claims upon Jesus by his followers were then seen in retrospective
   in the Hebrew Bible.  They saw Jesus right, left, and center.  Every
   verse came to refer to him, in context, or out of context.  This
   is very similar to what his followers do today.  This includes attributing
   to him all sorts of miracles and sayings that it is doubtful that
   he did or said (even according to Christian theologians).

5. All followers of Jesus in the years preceding and shortly following
   his death were Jews.  They attended synagogue and they offered 
   sacrifices.  The Temple was not destroyed utill 40 years after the
   supposed date of death of Jesus.

6. It was much later, that followers of Jesus such as Paul, and 
   especially missionaries, began to completely twist the teachings
   of Jesus out of recognizable proportions.  It is widely recognized
   that the theology of Paul and of later so-called apostles were
   completely different from the simple teachings of Jesus.

7. In the centuries that followed, the followers of Jesus, seeing the
   lack of interest of Jews in general, began to open the following
   to gentiles.  At this point, Jesus became a greater than life myth
   completely unrelated to what he was -- a simple man.  Paul and
   others began to transform Jesus as part of the Godhead.  Gentiles
   brought all sort of beliefs into the now formed churches.

8. While the original followers of Jesus kept the Sabbath and attended
   synagogue, they continued their meetings to Sunday.  When gentiles
   became involved, and the Jews showed no interest, the day of getting
   together became established as Sunday.

9. Once these churches got established, formed a church government, and
   transformed the Passover (which was being kept by early Christians
   -- see the Quatrodeciman controversy) into Easter, accepted the
   involvement of the government of the State, added Christmas observence,
   decided that Jews were the ones who murdered Jesus, organized
   crusades to conquer Jerusalem while killing thousands of Jews along
   the way, organized pogroms to devastate Jewish villages, etc.  then
   this was now a completely and totally new religion very, very far
   removed from Jesus.

Summary:  Jesus if he existed, was criticized what he perceived as
          religious abuses of his day.  He was a man, and dies a man,
          no different, than others who have criticized aspects of
          Jewish practice.  His followers, by a series of myths,
          decisions, and changes heaped one on top of the other, created
          a religion completely different than the simple ideas
          of Jesus.



--
Eli Chiprout                 
Dept. of Electronics, 
Carleton University, Canada
emc@doe.carleton.ca