HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: changhp@engin.umich.edu (Hsiou-Ping Chang)
Subject: Re: Is TI so rossy?
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 93 00:09:43 EST
Organization: The University of Michigan
Reply-To: echang@engin.umich.edu
Originator: changhp@fijan.engin.umich.edu


In article <1993Jan5.130624.13172@topaz.ucq.edu.au>, huangz@topaz.ucq.edu.au writes:
> In article <dqb=v+C@engin.umich.edu>, changhp@engin.umich.edu (Hsiou-Ping Chang) writes:
> > 
> > In article <1993Jan2.233229.13167@topaz.ucq.edu.au>, huangz@topaz.ucq.edu.au writes:
> > 
> >> 	Worst thing was the possible war lasted several years, or several
> >> decades. Yes, even 60% taiwanese could supported TI, but still there were 
> >> 40% against it, and surely there would be some percent of people were 
> >> determinded to fight to death to protect ROC.
> > 	
> > 	I'm working on persuading the other 40% to join the 60% in case
> > China uses force, so expect a unanimous 100% support for TI in that situation.
> 
> 	You are saying something that I dream of, but actually never happen
> to Chinese. You better remember this rule:
> 	CHINESE WORK FOR THEIR COMMON INTERESTES, BUT FIGHT FOR THEIR 
> DIFFERENT INTERESTES.

	Your rule is very interesting to me.  I'll tell you  the survival
of Taiwan is the common interests of people on Taiwan.  I am working on
the workable.  People of Taiwan will support TI with all their might, if China
do anything against Taiwan.  People of Taiwan will evantully realize the best
way to prevent Taiwan from the threat of China is to unanimously support TI. 
We will get together under the same goal -- escape from the bloody hand of
China and get recognitions by other countries.  I will do my best and urge
my country follows to stand up to protect Taiwan.
	The only way TI won't get support is your China government stops
threatening using force and stop blocking Taiwan's diplomatic efforts.

> 	The point is: today we are lucky to have relatively steady
> political and economical situation to have a chance to work together.
> The main Chinese parties, KMT and CCP are becoming mature after long
> time growing. But today some people intend to break this peaceful
> moment, bring kind of revolutionary mood into the society. They don't
> realise the huge uncertainty and risk, like you. History has the rule 
> of "locality" too, similar things happen, then happen again. How
> do you get so certain that TI will be an exception??? You never
> convience me a bit.        

	Yes, we are working together; Taiwanese invests a lot in mainland 
because we want to help China becomes better.
But your government keeps threatening people of Taiwan and you mainlanders 
never blame your government but blame TI.  TI is a way of survival.
There is no way to give up your weapon when someone is threatening your life.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: Eugene.Liu@launchpad.unc.edu (Eugene Liu)
Subject: Re: email in Taiwan?
Organization: University of North Carolina Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 21:38:00 GMT

In article <C0FnHF.9ps@newsserver.technet.sg> ipacs@solomon.technet.sg (IPACS PTE LTD) writes:
>Eugene Liu (Eugene.Liu@launchpad.unc.edu) wrote:
>: Almost all universities in Taiwan are linked to Internet now, so I'd say many
>: people, especially college students, are enjoying e-mail at the moment. :)
>
>
>What about the companies in Taiwan can they apply to obtain InterNet Access too.
>For example, can a company involved in Research and Development apply thru
>either the University or any commercial sources to gain InterNet access?
>If so, how and who do we approach.

I'd say it's possible. Below is some info that might help you...

                         TANet, The Taiwan Academic Network


            Address:
            Computer Center, Ministry of Education
            12th Fl, No. 106
            Sec. 2, Hoping E. Road
            Taipei, Taiwan
            Attention: Chen Wen-Sung

            Email: zchen@twnmoe10.edu.tw
                   or zchen@twnmoe10.bitnet

            Phone: 886-2-7377010
                   Fax: 886-2-7377043

:E.Liu
--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi)
Subject: Re: Is TI so rossy?
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Lowell Computer Science
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 22:59:06 GMT

In article <1993Jan11.171150.26968@oakhill.sps.mot.com> jackw@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Jack Wu) writes:
>In article <C0JIAJ.Ap@ulowell.ulowell.edu> cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi) writes: 
>>Who caused the problem is not as important as how to solve the problem.
>>Taiwan is holding unification as hostage, in excuse of CCP, and refuses
>>contact with mainland. This may cause  Chinese people disaster, if not managed
>>carefully, given some nation are taking advantage of the situation.
>                  -----------
>Sounds like a CCP's propaganda. I guess your SOME NATION is implying
>the Red China. Wake up, jerk. Only the CCP wants to take advantage from
>both Hong-Kong and Taiwan. Tell your CCP the unification is already dead
>after Tianman Square Massacre. Only jerks like you will believe them.
>
>
>
>
>Jack Wu
Lovely. That  is not upto _your_ choice.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: mtl@cs.brown.edu 
Subject: Re: Li-Hau Institution
Organization: Brown Computer Science Dept.
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 18:58:52 GMT


In article <C0r3xB.11Fy@austin.ibm.com>, tylee@leety.austin.ibm.com (Ty Lee) writes:
|> In article <1993Jan12.151405.15127@cs.brown.edu> mtl@cs.brown.edu writes:
|> >
|> >	Were there a lot of riot police and military police waiting for them
|> >
|> >	outside the Presidential House?  That is what they usually do if there is
|> 
|> Becase people of this kind tend to behave well. They are not going to tear
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
|> the president's office apart.
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

	How did they know they were NOT going to tear the presidential office apart? 
	Does the person who planned this demo and the one in charge of security in the
	presidential house happen to be on the "same side?"
|>  ...
|> That is because people have stereotype against the DPP as a bunch of thugs,
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
|> hoodlums, Hottentots, yahoos, mobs and rednecks. 
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
|> 


	I thought in the "Republic of China" everyone is equal regardless
	of their race, occupation or the political party they participate in.

|> Fair enough? You tell me.

	No. Looks like discrimination to me. 
	If this is the way ROC police thinks, I would say it's rather pathetic:

	Police A: "Gee! There will be a demonstration tomorrow!"
	Police B: "By whom?"
	Police A: "Hau supporters!"
	Police B: "Don't worry! We are on the same side...."
	Police A: "What about the demonstration the day after tomorrow? It's a
		   DPP demonstration."
	Police B: "Oops! DPP is a bunch of thugs,  hoodlums, Hottentots, yahoos, 
                   mobs and rednecks. Be alert! Get your riot equipments ready!"


Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: tsen+@cs.cmu.edu (Chung Kang Tsen)
Subject: Re: Chong1 Guang3 broadcast (Was Re: Excellence, Made in Taiwan)
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 19:17:10 GMT


Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: nlu@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: China(was More than 50% support TI)
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 02:16:12 GMT

In article <1993Jan12.083630.4261@vax.cns.muskingum.edu> ericlaw@vax.cns.muskingum.edu (Eric Law, Geology Department) writes:
>
>	** Did we have any conclusion last time?
>
>	   How can you be against devil but also for the right of devil?
>
>	   I know TI is not as evil as the devil. But the principle
>	   should be the same.

Hmmm...

Of course you continue to refuse to reason.

I am against adultery.  So, does that mean that I should stone adulterers I
see to death?

For that matter, I am against eating fish.  So, I should go and burn seafood
restaurants?

I would hate to imagine what kind of world we'd be in if you were a
potentate of any sort...
From: li@sicvax.enet.dec.com (Tom Li)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Is TI so rossy?
Date: 8 Jan 93 23:42:24 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


In article <C0JIAJ.Ap@ulowell.ulowell.edu>, cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi) writes...
>In article <1993Jan5.021355.4984@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> li@sicvax.enet.dec.com (Tom Li) writes:
>>
>>We also want to wake you up, that is, understand who is really causing the 
>>China/Taiwan problem. CCP.
>
>Who caused the problem is not as important as how to solve the problem.

You have to recognize the cause first then find the solution. If you avoid 
the truth then how are you going to find the solution? 

>Taiwan is holding unification as hostage, in excuse of CCP, and refuses 
>contact with mainland. This may cause  Chinese people disaster, if not managed
>carefully, given some nation are taking advantage of the situation.

I believe most of people in Taiwan are not willing to unify with China now
because of CCP. Why dont you be the one to change CCP, instead of blaming 
Taiwan (or the West)?
From: hsiwang@usc.edu (Hsi-Chun Wang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: President Lee's Speech (News from UPI)
Date: 4 Jan 1993 01:07:46 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu

Newsgroups: clari.news.gov.international
Subject: Taiwan leader calls for reform, democracy in China
Date: 4 Jan 93 07:15:09 GMT

	TAIPEI, Taiwan (UPI) -- Taiwan President Lee Teng-hui Monday
vowed in a state-of-the-union address to the National Assembly to
heighten Taipei's international profile in 1993 and set reform in
China as a condition for unification with Beijing.

	``We should make good use of our overseas development fund and
all other possible resources to promote more pragmatic participation
in world organizations,'' Lee said.

	``This will expedite our ultimate goal of returning to the
United Nations,'' he added.

	Taipei was expelled from the United Nations in 1971 in favor
of mainland China.

	In the speech -- which praised Taiwan's ``economic miracle''
and promised continued political reforms -- Lee called on Beijing's
communist leaders to embrace similar change and renounce the threat of
force against Taiwan.

	Although Lee described the division of China as ``an issue of
deep concern'' and stressed his committment to eventual unity, he
accused Beijing of hindering the process by ignoring the current
reality of relations across the Taiwan Straits.

	``At present there exist two equal political entities,'' Lee
said.  ``Any position not based on this fact is not realistic.''

	Lee also criticized Beijing's formula for reunification -- the
``one country, two systems'' model -- which Nationalist leaders say
would subordinate Taiwan to a communist government.

	The Nationalists have ruled Taiwan since being driven from
mainland China by communist armies in 1949.

	Both Beijing and Taipei claim sovereignty over all China,
Taiwan included. In all, 138 nations recognize the Beijing government,
while only 29 countries share diplomatic ties with Taipei.
From: kuolin@oregon.uoregon.edu (Yeong-Kuo Lin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Fight in Taiwan's legislature reported on WPIX TV, NYC
Date: 10 Jan 93 02:09:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: oregon.9JAN199318094419
Distribution: world
Organization: University of Oregon
NNTP-Posting-Host: oregon.uoregon.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1993Jan9.184331.1781@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, wa2ise@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (robert.f.casey) writes...
>In article <1993Jan9.125757.4237@vax.cns.muskingum.edu> ericlaw@vax.cns.muskingum.edu (Eric Law, Geology Department) writes:
>>	** After seeing the spectacular fight among Guo2 Dai4
><	   on Jan 8, [....   ]                      ^^^ Taiwan's congress?
> 
>Last night (Jan 8, Friday), on New York City TV channel 11 (WPIX), on their
>news show, they showed video footage of a fight that broke out in their
>legislative body (equivalent to the USA Congress) during a dabate.  Showed
>members yelling and throwing fists and wrestling on the floor.  No mention
>on this newscast as to what issue was being debated that started this
>brawl.  Mentioned that members of the "opposition party" and the "ruling
>party" were involved.  I had the feeling that the news reporters of 
>this TV channel were "milking" this story for laughs, and saying that
>debates in USA's Congress, while heated at times, rarely get like this.
>I seem to remember hearing about another brawl in Taiwan's legislature
>about 6 to 12 months ago?  Hope I'm wrong, but how common is this anyway?
In this point, I agree US political statge is more advanced than Taiwan.
Taiwannes legislators use body to argue with the other people. US legislator
use gun or CIA to argue the oppiosite party. Their way is more efficient
and powerful. American should be pround of this.

******* It's a personal joke. Nothing else ********
From: idpt167@tpts1.seed.net.tw (PC_USR)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: e-mail in Taiwan
Date: 7 Jan 1993 00:15:27 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

From: Eugene.Liu@launchpad.unc.edu (Eugene Liu)
>In article <C0FnHF.9ps@newsserver.technet.sg> ipacs@solomon.technet.sg (IPACS PTE LTD) writes: >
>>Eugene Liu (Eugene.Liu@launchpad.unc.edu) wrote:                                              >
>>: Almost all universities in Taiwan are linked to Internet now, so I'd say many               >
>>: people, especially college students, are enjoying e-mail at the moment. :)                  >
>>                                                                                              >
>>                                                                                              >
>>What about the companies in Taiwan can they apply to obtain InterNet Access too.              >
>>For example, can a company involved in Research and Development apply thru                    >
>>either the University or any commercial sources to gain InterNet access?                      >
>>If so, how and who do we approach.                                                            >
>                                                                                               >
>I'd say it's possible. Below is some info that might help you...                               >
>                                                                                               >
>                         TANet, The Taiwan Academic Network                                    >

No, MOE (Ministry of Education) does not grant access to the private sector
of Taiwan.  SEEDNET does.  For host/LAN users of SEEDNET, full Internet
access is offered; PC users of SEEDNET also have access to e-mail, ftp
and USENET.  I posted a few articles about SEEDNET on s.c.t..  If there are
any persons who are willing to compile an FAQ list of s.c.t., then I am
glad to offer those information again.  Since I am not affiliated with
the institution who developed and maintains SEEDNET, for authoritative
answers and prompt replies please try to ftp from the following sites:

        tpdns.seed.net.tw (139.175.1.12)
        tpts1.seed.net.tw (139.175.1.9)  <-- Taipei center of SEEDNET
        shts.seed.net.tw  <-- Hsin-Chu center of SEEDNET
        ksts.seed.net.tw  <-- Kao-Hsiung center of SEEDNET

Or send your e-mail to service@tpts1.seed.net.tw or usr006@tpts1.seed.net.tw
(it is the person who posts the SEEDNET users list every month on the
SEEDNET BBS).

The SEEDNET service center can be contacted at:

SEEDNET Service Center, Taipei Center
5F #268 Sec. 2 Fu-Hsing S. Road
Taipei, Taiwan
TEL: (+1+886) (02) 7336454 or 7338779
FAX: (+1+886) (02) 7336602
E-Mail: service@tpts1.seed.net.tw

>:E.Liu

--
Hsu-Ku "Bruce" Ying                E-Mail: idpt167@tpts1.seed.net.tw
Software Engineer                  TEL: 886-2-2452227, ext. 352
ARMAS Computer Corp.               FAX: 886-2-2452218
2F #9 Lane 327 Sec. 2 Chung-Shan Road, Chung-Ho City, Taipei, Taiwan

Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: pok@ccs.yorku.ca (Pok Ng)
Subject: Chinese on Macintosh
Organization: Computing & Communication Services, York University, Canada
Distribution: soc.culture.taiwan
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 17:42:22 GMT


Greetings,

	I need some pricing information on the following products:

	1. Mac Chinese OS System 7.1
	2. Any Apple Laser Printer with Chinese Options

	Also, if you have any experience on any DTP application that work with Chinese on a
Mac, please let me know.

Thanks

/pok


--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pok Ng                                  |
                                        | Voice: (416) 736-5257
UNIX Technical Support Team             | FAX  : (416) 736-5700
Computing and Communication Services,   |
York University                         | Internet: Pok@Gabriel.CCS.YorkU.CA
T103 Steacie Sci. Library               | 
North York, Ontario                     |
CANADA M3J 1P3                          |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ericlaw@vax.cns.muskingum.edu (Eric Law, Geology Department)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Cross Posting.
Date: 9 Jan 93 12:46:12 -0500
Organization: Muskingum College

In article <1993Jan8.171544.22821@cs.brown.edu>, mtl@cs.brown.edu writes:
> 
> 	I am just wonder why so many people are cross-posting 
> 	articles in soc.culture.taiwan, soc.culture.china and
> 	soc.culture.hongkong?
> 	Does that tell us that the cross-posted articles are so 
> 	important that everyone should read?
> 

	** This is a very good illustration of that China should
	   be united. SCHK, SCT, and SCC should eventually be
	   only one. 

	   I like to see more and more cross-posting happen.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: kenw@austlcm.sps.mot.com (kenw)
Subject: Re: China(was More than 50% support TI)
Organization: Motorola
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 15:09:14 GMT

In article <1993Jan5.011333.17948@zip.eecs.umich.edu> joy@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Chien-Chung Chen) writes:
>In article <C0Conp.xHM@austin.ibm.com> tylee@leety.austin.ibm.com (Ty Lee) writes:
>>In article <1993Jan4.191415.18969@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> nlu@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
>>> .....
>>>that the Northern China Plains are more fertile than the Great Plains or the
>>>Ukrainian Plains.
>>> 
>>
>>Do you still want to waste the bandwidth by discussing the irrelevant issues
>>about China and your history knowledge on the net. Please do not digress
>>too far.
>
>I disagree with you that Lu is wasting the bandwidth. Chunde Shi was
>insisting that China's land is the most fertile on earth. If someone
>disagrees, isn't it nice that he can give the names of lands that are
>more fertile than China's? Why is it irrelevant to China issue? Shi was
>arguing that because China has the most fertile land in the world,
>some western imperialists try to annex China or something, and hence
>Taiwan independence has something to do with the fertility of China's
>land. (Not my logic. If you find this ridiculous, don't blame me.)
>
>>Yes, I know you major in history. So, change it to other news group.
>
>This is the right newsgroup. Otherwise, what newsgroup should Lu's article
>belong to?
>
>>Bosnia, Croatia, ..... can't you give up the habit of citing them?
>
>Why not citing them? Shouldn't we learn from history?
>
>-- Chien-Chung Chen 


       This is a great discussion. If Mr. Chunde Shi likes Taiwan to be a part of
China, Taiwanese should know what they are going to get. The "greatest Father Land" 
definitely is one. Guys, keep up the good work.
From: ericlaw@vax.cns.muskingum.edu (Eric Law, Geology Department)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: China(was More than 50% support TI)
Date: 12 Jan 93 08:36:30 -0500
Organization: Muskingum College

In article <1993Jan12.011231.14223@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>, nlu@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
> 
> I am against Taiwanese independence, but I am for the *right* for Taiwanese
> independence.

	** Did we have any conclusion last time?

	   How can you be against devil but also for the right of devil?

	   I know TI is not as evil as the devil. But the principle
	   should be the same.

	   Your attitude gives reformer like Mao an excuse: Bai3 Wu2 I2 Yeun4
	   S4 Su1 Sen1 (hundred no one use is book student).
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: yang@milton.cs.uiuc.edu (Der-Shung Yang)
Subject: Re: China(was More than 50% support TI)
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 17:27:23 GMT

ericlaw@vax.cns.muskingum.edu (Eric Law, Geology Department) writes:

>In article <1993Jan12.011231.14223@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>, nlu@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
>> 
>> I am against Taiwanese independence, but I am for the *right* for Taiwanese
>> independence.

>	** Did we have any conclusion last time?

If you followed that thread carefully enough, you should have seen several
responses supporting Nelson's viewpoint.  (Sorry, I havn't seen one supporting
yours.)  Once again, I agree with Nelson that I don't like TI, but I am for 
the *right* for TI.

>	   How can you be against devil but also for the right of devil?

You should study computer science:-)  Your world is only 0's and 1's.

>	   I know TI is not as evil as the devil. But the principle
>	   should be the same.

>	   Your attitude gives reformer like Mao an excuse: Bai3 Wu2 I2 Yeun4
>	   S4 Su1 Sen1 (hundred no one use is book student).

Cannot see the link between Nelson's attitude and Mao.

--
DerShung Yang    
yang@cs.uiuc.edu 
Beckman Institute
Univ. of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: joy@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Chien-Chung Chen)
Subject: Re: China(was More than 50% support TI)
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 01:13:33 GMT

In article <C0Conp.xHM@austin.ibm.com> tylee@leety.austin.ibm.com (Ty Lee) writes:
>In article <1993Jan4.191415.18969@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> nlu@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
>> .....
>>that the Northern China Plains are more fertile than the Great Plains or the
>>Ukrainian Plains.
>> 
>
>Do you still want to waste the bandwidth by discussing the irrelevant issues
>about China and your history knowledge on the net. Please do not digress
>too far.

I disagree with you that Lu is wasting the bandwidth. Chunde Shi was
insisting that China's land is the most fertile on earth. If someone
disagrees, isn't it nice that he can give the names of lands that are
more fertile than China's? Why is it irrelevant to China issue? Shi was
arguing that because China has the most fertile land in the world,
some western imperialists try to annex China or something, and hence
Taiwan independence has something to do with the fertility of China's
land. (Not my logic. If you find this ridiculous, don't blame me.)

>Yes, I know you major in history. So, change it to other news group.

This is the right newsgroup. Otherwise, what newsgroup should Lu's article
belong to?

>Bosnia, Croatia, ..... can't you give up the habit of citing them?

Why not citing them? Shouldn't we learn from history?

-- Chien-Chung Chen
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.china