From: yangze@acf3.nyu.edu (Ze Yang)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
Subject: Re: Conference, Sino-Tibetan Relations: Prospects for the future
Date: 4 Oct 92 19:04:37 GMT
Organization: New York University

yjj@neptune.ctr.columbia.edu (Yuan Jiang) writes:

>In article <1992Oct3.170809.9365@cmcl2.nyu.edu> yangze@acf3.nyu.edu (Ze Yang) writes:
>>yjj@neptune.ctr.columbia.edu (Yuan Jiang) writes:
>>
>>>In article <1992Oct3.030008.29321@cmcl2.nyu.edu> yangze@acf3.nyu.edu (Ze Yang) writes:
>>>>wendong@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Wen-Dong Tang) writes:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Division increases hostality,
>>>>mideast, former Sovit Union and Yogslava are good examples. Division
>>>>do harm to ecnomic intercourse, while eroupean is unifying, I cann't
>>>>understand why Mr. Tang encourage independence movement here.
>>
>>>There is a saying "good fence makes good neighbors."  So division
>>>does not neccessarily increase hostality.  Peace is maintained when
>>
>>I have my examples here, what's yours, Mr. Jiang? I don't object the

>Your examples only prove what I stated.  Peoples are antangeled in

I don't know how my facts prove your theory. My statement is that
"division increases hostality", I stated a relationship between "
division" and "hostality", from the facts I stated above, there
seemed to be a correlation, sure you can give me more facts, and
proove the correlation is false.

>Yogoslavia.  Where the fences should be are not clear.  Now they
>are fighting over how to draw the lines.  It's caused by historical
>wrongs by the Wars and Tito.  Maybe many Chinese students think

You see "where the fence should be" is something very subjective.
What I stated above is something can measure.

>Tito is a nice from CCP's education.  but he was a butcher just
>like Stalin and Mao.  What's happening in former Soviet is similar.
>Also, they have not got out of the communist habbit of using force.

>>race round them. Also you assertion sounds racism. 
>>
>>South Africa Government is glad to hear "people with blood relations
>>tend to live together better".

>I don't you give me a HAT.  People do live better with people who
>are related by blood, have similar culture, tradition and way
>of living.  Is New York a melting pot?  Each people has their
>own community.

What I said is true, south african government like your statement
"people with blood relationship tend to live together better".

>>
>>>There were so many times when Europe was tried to be united by force.
>>>There were 1st and 2nd world wars and many wars before.  After 2nd WW,
>>
>>There is no comparison here, Tibet is part of China for a long history.
>>We inherited that land legally and peacefully, how can you compare this 
>>with those bloody annexing.  We are palying the game under the rule most 

>1959 was equally bloody if not more.

Dalai Lamai was the aggressor that time. They are responsible for the
blood conflict.

>>people accept. Most important, I object TI because I think that will hurt 
>>our interest.
>I think this is the heart of the problem: interest and the pride of BIG CHINA.
>I did not say TI will not hurt your and Chinese interest.  But how about
>Tibetans' interests?  Interests can be negociated abd bargained on the table.

Anything wrong with "interest", why don't you give your money away to
the poor. why don't you think unifying is not good for Tibetans? 
Tibet has been part of China, we(Han and Tibetan) own it just like you own
your house, car, etc.

>>
>>The western Europe and U.S. and Japan are united as tight as eastern
>>Europe, the only difference is free market economy.
>>
>Were they forced to be united.  They chose to colaborate.

Your previous post gave me an impression that "uniying is bad", I just
want to prove that is wrong.

>>How is it reduced. Why don't you mention the Civil War and Mecxian War?
>>Without those wars, U.S. cannot be a country you see today.

>As I said, when you see a devil, do you want to be a devil too?

First of all, I don't think that they were devils at all, do you think
they are devils? Americans build such a great country, people here
enjoy such a good life.  why do you say their ancestors were
devils? 
The way their choose is a way that can be walked through.

>>Why so many deathes every day?
>Because of the injustice and conflicts left over from yesterday.

Then are there injustice and conflicts left in China and USA and other
countries from yesterday? 
As I said above, a scientific statement only establishes correlations
between different happenings, your comment is too subjective.
I showed you there is a correlation between division and hostality, if this is
true, then if I don't want hostality, I don't want division.

I won't continue my discussion with Mr. Jiang, but 
that doesn't mean I agree what he is going to say.

Ze Yang