HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pnmideast@igc.apc.org
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
Date: 03 Jan 93 23:07 PST
Subject: MUSLIM CONFERENCES ON APC
Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1471800196:000:2021
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!pnmideast    Jan  3 23:07:00 1993


From: <pnmideast>
Subject: MUSLIM CONFERENCES ON APC

/* Written 11:09 pm  Dec 27, 1992 by pnmideast@igc.apc.org in igc:gen.muslims */
/* ---------- "MUSLIM CONFERENCES ON APC" ---------- */
Please distribute this announcement to those who you think
would be interested in this conference. Thanks!

-------------------------------------------------------
		MUSLIM CONFERENCES ON APC

When you want to know about how Muslims see the issues then come
visit the Muslim conferences on APC!

		GEN.ISLAM and GEN.MUSLIMS

There are now TWO conferences devoted to Islam and Muslim-related
issues worldwide on the APC networks.

GEN.ISLAM - This is the forum for discussions about Islam the religion, its
world-view and its theology. Here you will find information from and about
the message of the Qur'an and the life and collected traditions of The
Messenger.

There will also be a range of information and discussions on other topics
such as Islamic texts, Muslim views on marrige, family, society, and the world.
Important events and news on the development of Islamic thought are also
covered.

GEN.MUSLIMS - devoted to news and discussion of Muslims and
Muslim-related issues worldwide. From events in the Balkans to
news from India, this conference is the place to talk about what's
happening to Muslim communities around the world.

Did you know that there are one billion Muslims worldwide? Did you
know that there are 54 independent nations where Muslims are a
majority of the population? Did you know that Indonesia is the
largest Muslim country in the world? Did you know that Islam is the
second largest and fastest growing religion in the United States?

Please come to GEN.ISLAM and GEN.MUSLIMS to find out more!

And if you've got news or announcements or questions about Islam
and Muslim-related issues and events, let us know and send them to
GEN.ISLAM and GEN.MUSLIMS.

Very sincerely,

Jennifer Smith			Farzin Deravi
Gen.Muslims Facilitator		Gen.Islam Facilitator
pnmideast@igc.apc.org		f1deravi@gn.apc.org



Xref: sparky soc.culture.arabic:6481 soc.culture.lebanon:5545
From: bibr0027@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic,soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: The Universal Word - Arabic word processor
Date: 11 Jan 93 19:48:11 -0400
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

I have using the Universal Word to publish our church bulletin,
ORTHODOXY.  The arabic fonts are fine, and the program itself
does the job most of the time, but sometimes it is slow and
it tends to crash a lot of the time.  I am unsatisfied, 
nevertheless.  I had purchased it in Lebanon a couple of 
years ago from a computer store.  I also managed to get an
arabic printed keyboard.

I was wondering if anyone has heard of any other arabic 
word processors for Windows.  Are there any out there?
I would really appreciate it if anyone could
post name of programs, prices, etc.


John
From: gwydion@gnu.ai.mit.edu (Mercenary Programmer)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Re: Are Lebanese considered ARABS?????
Keywords: Carasso strikes out.
Date: 10 Jan 93 15:41:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: life.1ipg3lINN3c9
Distribution: world
Organization: Free Software Foundation
NNTP-Posting-Host: spiff.gnu.ai.mit.edu

In article <1ikrtiINN2vp@uwm.edu> bashar@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Bashar Khairi Abouseido) writes:

>Fake Lebanese person !! You sound like a non-Lebanese and non-Arab
>person ...

He sounded like a genuine Carasso-person though.

>I won't bother responding to your "full of contradictions"
>post.

Good idea!

Basalat Ali Raja.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.arabic:6265 talk.politics.mideast:24798
From: nabeel@sce.carleton.ca (Bulbul)
Subject: Are the Sensible Dead?
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 16:11:08 GMT

   I know that sensible people are on the decrease, but I request the
remainder of them to kindly redirect (when they follow-up) their
follow-ups to relevant groups especially that people who are involved
in political issues do read t.p.m anyway; so there will be no loss of
generality.

   This group degenerated into an extension of talk.politics.mideast
which is against net ethics.

   In my understanding this group should be concerned with discussing
Arabic cultural issues. At most that can be extended to discuss
Arab-Arab political issues, but I can not see any relation of this
to Arab-NonArab political issues.

   Thanks.
   
**

   A Public Service Message
       by Bulbul, Inc.


Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic,talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.jewish
From: jle@locus.com (John Elghani)
Subject: Re: Name of Palestinian Deportees (part i)
Organization: LC
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 93 03:42:03 GMT

In article <1993Jan6.222732.11871@bony1.bony.com> jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni) writes:
>
>As for "resisting persecution and oppression by a military power", in
>your previous posting you said "Violence and brutality are violence
>and brutality no matter what you call them."  How can you now call the
>brutal, terrorist savagery of the Intifada "resistance to oppression",
>when more Arabs are being killed in the Intifada by other Arabs than
>by Israeli soldiers?

You know that the Arabs are killing other israeli agent arabs;
arabs that support the oppressor whom is the initial problem.

There philosophy stands as follow:  By eliminating collaborators,
you can have a better resistance against the aggressor, occupier,
or oppressor.  

Q1:  What is the penalty of a spy in Civilized USA?
Q2:  How did Israel punish the American spy ship?  They bombed it, right?.

jle
From: bakken@cs.arizona.edu (Dave Bakken)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Re: salAmu `alaykum
Date: 11 Jan 93 18:08:56 GMT
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson

In article <1is8uuEINNg5u@uni-erlangen.de> rtrisack@cip.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Robert Risack) writes:
>
>I just want to ask, if there are some arabs coming to InterNet from
>arabic countries. All arabs I read postings from are working in Amerika,
>Australia, France, or Ireland. Is there no arabic Institute with InterNet
>connection?

Yes, a lot of Arab posters post from the West.  Many are students
(mainly graduate), but some work for companies here.

There has been an internet connection to Tunisia for a while,
I understand, and soon Kuwait U is supposed to be online.
I would be surprised if a few other Gulf universities didn't
get on the internet within the next year, although I have no
specific knowledge of any particular plans.

One general problem is that Arab (and many other!) governments 
generally don't tolerate much criticism.  Thus, a student in
an Arab country would probably be very hesitant to post about
the controversial subjects that seem to be most of the bandwidth
of Arab and Mideast-related newsgroups.  Even students here
who hope to return or visit their home country often
``look over their shoulder'' and question the wisdom of their
posting to controversial newsgroups.

However, Kuwait may turn out to be a limited exception to this trend.
I was there for two weeks last summer visiting friends, and they do
have a relatively free press.  It can criticize the governenmt
and even policies as long as they don't criticize the ruling
Sabah family (I particularly liked the English edition of
Arab Times).  And some sort of political enfranchisement seems
to be increasing there.  Also, many Kuwaitis are opposed to Iraq,
like the US, are opposed to Islamic fundamentalist rule, etc.
Discussing these certainly could not get them into trouble.
So you may well see Kuwaiti students posting if some professor is
foolish :-} enough to install controversial USENET.  And I wouldn't
be surprised to see similar postings from Lebanon and Egypt if
they get internet connections.  (Of course, USENET could run
on top of BITNET, but that might get expensive fast.)
--
Dave Bakken                               Internet: bakken@cs.arizona.edu
Dept. of Computer Science; U of Arizona   Voice:    +1 602 621 4098      
Tucson, AZ 85721; USA                     FAX:      +1 602 621 4246
The fact that you're paranoid doesn't prove they're *not* out to get you.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic,talk.politics.mideast
From: ilyess@ECE.Concordia.CA (Ilyess Bdira)
Subject: Gulf war aftermath..
Organization: ECE - Concordia University
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 19:18:15 GMT

If you are still wondering why many Arabs did not sympathize with
the Kuwaiti ruling family, maybe this article will not convince, but I will try

 	MADRID (UPI) -- The state-owned Kuwaiti Investment Office Friday filed
 fraud charges against seven former directors of its Spanish subsidiary,
 Grupo Torras, and accused them of forcing the industrial giant into
 bankruptcy by siphoning off illegal profits.
 	Among the seven named in the suit are former KIO Chairman Sheikh
 Fahad al-Sabah, former KIO General Manager Fouad Jaffar and Spanish
 businessman Javier de la Rosa, a Torras spokesman said.
 	The charges include fraud, falsifying public and mercantile
 documents, price fixing and tax crimes. Al-Sabah, a distant cousin of
 the Emir of Kuwait, and de la Rosa left Torras in May.
 	As chairman and vice president of the company they were the senior
 diretors responsible for the running of Torras.
 	The company's new management has said the previous team ran up losses
 of $4 billion.
 	Torras filed for bankruptcy protection in a Madrid court at the end
 of last year.
 	Lawyers representing Torras Friday asked the court to seize the
 personal assets of the seven former directors to make sure they do not
 take money out of the country.
 	The suit contends the seven acted ``with evident fraud and abuse of
 trust'' in a number of transactions in which ``they obtained enormous
 profits,'' a Torras statement said.
 	``The criminal complaint considers that those actions have been the
 main origin of the losses of the group and that have motivated the
 temporary receivership of the group,'' the company said.
 	Torras became one of Spain's major industrial groups after KIO
 started investing in the country in the mid-1980s. The company's
 collapse has led to tensions between Spain and Kuwait, with the Spanish
 government refusing to pump money into Torras to keep it afloat.
 	Some 30,000 people are employed in companies the group controls in
 sectors such as paper, chemicals, property and farm products.
 	One of Torras' largest companies, petro-chemical group Ercros,
 Thursday announced it would lay off 1,900 workers.
 	The Kuwaiti government Wednesday froze the assets of Jaffar, al-Sabah
 and another family member, Sheikh Khaled Nasser al-Sabah, who had been
 responsible for Kuwaiti investments in the United States.
 	A spokesman for Javier de la Rosa said: ``We are still studying the
 text of the complaint and will be making a comment later.''


Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
From: zmbenhal@netcom.com (Zeyd M. Ben-Halim)
Subject: Re: Al-Baqarah #143
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 22:52:00 GMT

In article <1993Jan7.204933.3363@trl.oz.au> a.Faris@trl.oz.au  writes:
>In article <1993Jan7.160842.17971@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, mmdh@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (Mazen Mokhtar) writes:
>|> 
>|>   Muhammad was never the awaited Messiah. The Messiah was Jesus (PBUH). A
>|> quick glance at a Qur`an should prove my point.
>
>I recall an article written by Dr. Siddiqui while arguing with a Mr. Watson
>about who is the true Messiah. Dr. Siddiqui was saying the Jewish scribes had
>modified the writing to make it look like the Messiah would come from the
>house of David rather than from the house of Ismail and he is Muhammad.

This clearly wrong (in islamic view) see the statement above.

>|>   Muhammad (PBUH) is the final Messenger of God, sent to all of humanity
>|> with the message of guidance and truth. His message confirms and completes
>|> the messages sent before him at the hands of Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus
>|> and other Messengers, may God's blessing and peace be upon them all. He and
>|> all other Messengers of God taught that there is God is one, so worship Him,
>|> obey Him and join no object, animal or human in worship.
>
>I do not dispute what you say. However, do you beleive that the Bible has been
>modified by the scribes as Dr. Siddiqui claims?.

Nobody knows how the bible has been changed since we don't have access to the
original. Jesus IS the messiah.

>I think the concepts above are very good, powerful, and make lots of sense.
>I would like to ask you though; According to Judaism, mankind has inhereted
>sin through Adam and Eve. Christianity teaches that Jesus came and was
>sacraficed for mankinds sins. Islam say that mankind cannot be responsible
>for the sin of others. How does Islam deal with the apparent change of mind
>on Gods part?. Some how it appears that from Judaism to Islam, God has changed
>his mind after sacraficing his own son. This is not a sarcastic question Mazen.

Who said that what Judiasm, Chirstianity are (or were) teaching is the correct
word of God? God did not have a son, never mind had him crusified to save man-
kind.
Islam is saying the they have corrputed the message God gave them and Islam is
the correction. 

Zeyd
>
>A.Faris
From: hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Subject: Re: WHERE DO THE "palestinians" COME FROM?
Reply-To: hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 23:50:45 GMT

In article <1993Jan12.013109.5013@bony1.bony.com>, jake@bony1.bony.com
(Jake Livni) writes:
> In article <1993Jan9.005000.12393@ncsu.edu> hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU
(Brad Hernlem) writes:
> 
> >Cheap Bastard!!? Why the $(@& should I pay for some other country to
> >kill people?
> 
> Are you suggesting the instead of Uncle Sam sending money to Israel in
> the form of military aid, that the US should station marines there
> instead?  I assure you that it is much cheaper for Americans to
> support Israel indirectly as it has been than to send Americans
> directly. 

I am suggesting that I do not care to support the Israeli military. I
believe that Israel exercises a very belligerent foreign policy, as it
is. A cessation of military aid from the U.S. would do the whole region
some good and, in my opinion, would reduce Israeli belligerency.

> >Israelis have a much greater standard of living than all of their
> >neighbors; 
> 
> There's nothing like putting the whole damn country into the Army
> reserves for 1 or 2 months every year to raise the standard of living,
> right? 
> 
> >Furthermore, I don't want my country to be profiteering off of
> >other countries' desire to kill people; the arms sales should stop.
> 
> What's your beef here?  The US is not selling arms to Iran or to Iraq
> anymore. 

U.S. sales to the Mid East have exceeded $25 billion since the end of
the Gulf War. Much has gone to Israel, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia. It is
interesting, however, that the U.S. State Department is recently making
much of Rafsanjani's $2 billion per year military budget. All of it is a
great waste of money and is likely to only end in more suffering.
 
> -- 
> Jake Livni  jake@bony1.bony.com              10 years from now, George
Bush will
> American-Occupied New York                   have replaced Jimmy
Carter as the
> My opinions only - employer has no opinions. standard of a failed President.

Brad Hernlem (hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic,talk.politics.mideast
From: jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni)
Subject: Re: WHERE DO THE "palestinians" COME FROM?
Organization: The Department of Redundancy Department
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 01:31:09 GMT

In article <1993Jan9.005000.12393@ncsu.edu> hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem) writes:

>Cheap Bastard!!? Why the $(@& should I pay for some other country to
>kill people?

Are you suggesting the instead of Uncle Sam sending money to Israel in
the form of military aid, that the US should station marines there
instead?  I assure you that it is much cheaper for Americans to
support Israel indirectly as it has been than to send Americans
directly. 

>Israelis have a much greater standard of living than all of their
>neighbors; 

There's nothing like putting the whole damn country into the Army
reserves for 1 or 2 months every year to raise the standard of living,
right? 

>Furthermore, I don't want my country to be profiteering off of
>other countries' desire to kill people; the arms sales should stop.

What's your beef here?  The US is not selling arms to Iran or to Iraq
anymore. 

-- 
Jake Livni  jake@bony1.bony.com              10 years from now, George Bush will
American-Occupied New York                   have replaced Jimmy Carter as the
My opinions only - employer has no opinions. standard of a failed President.
From: isaac@etrog.se.citri.edu.au (Dr Isaac Balbin)
Subject: Re: Name of Palestinian Deportees (part i)
Organization: Collaborative Information Technology Research Institute
Date:  4 Jan 93 21:51:48 GMT

abde@troi.cc.rochester.edu (Tamer A. Abdelgawad) writes:

>Sorry to barge in (O.K., so I'm not really sorry :-) ), but I just want
>to ask:  Dr. Balbin, In Your Honest Opinion, do you think it is fair for
>Israel to toss out 400+ Palestinians out of their homeland without
>individual trials or individual convictions?

My opinion is that this is pseudo-war, and that  this is a most potent
NON-VIOLENT way to send a very strong message to murderous protaganists
that they cease violence as a means to their ends.
I feel sure, and I am sure you will agree that had the shoe been
on the other foot, and it was a Jewish Terrorist Organisation working
out of an Arab country that there would have been NO deportation (or trial)
instead there  would have been fast tracked mass executions.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
From: faris@sarcasm.trl.OZ.AU (Aziz Faris)
Subject: Re: Philosophy of Nationhood
Reply-To: a.Faris@trl.oz.au 
Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne,Australia
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 01:14:34 GMT

In article <1993Jan6.221641.22800@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>, carasso@Turing.ORG (Roger Carasso) writes:
|> 
|> 1.  I know it may sound far out from a secular point of view (But we
|> are dealing here with religion and spirituality after all)... But the
|> spirit of a Converts to Judaism is believed to have been at Mt. Sinai
|> for the giving of the Torah, and further a convert is said to have
|> Abraham as his spiritual father on the conversio papers.
|> Additionally, all male converts are circumcised.

However, the Bible clearly states that God promised that land to his decendants
and it was re-iterated a number of times to Isaac and Jacob. The Bible no where
mentions converts as far as I have read.

|> 
|> 2.  If the Palestinians give themselves the authority to define who
|> they are, then certainly jews should be allowed to decide for
|> themselves who is a jew ans who is not.

The question is how should both groups define it. Not if one or the other
has the right to do so. Perhaps I should ask how do both groups define at
present?.

A.Faris
Organization: The American University - University Computing Center
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 15:43:15 EST
From: Peter M. Cohen <PC2370A@auvm.american.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
Subject: A Plea for Peace

I just read a news article regarding the demonstrations in Cairo, Egypt by
Arabic students against the Israeli deportation of the 400 Palestinians
Israel claims are members of terrorist organization.  The students were
shouting "Jews are the enemy of G-d !" among other hateful things.  I would
like to point out that Jews are not the enemy of G-d.  Not all Jews feel that
the deportations are justified.  The United Nations has passed a resolution
calling for repatriation of the deportees.  I feel that it is the duty of the
Israeli government to bring these people back to their home.  If they are truly
terrorists, let the government present evidence and try these people in court.
We have to work together to find peace.  It is my believe that the Palestinians
deserve a homeland somewhere in what is now the occupied territories.  Don't
make the mistake of believing all Jews support Israeli policies.  There can be
no justification for armed soldiers to shoot unarmed civilians.  There are
other ways to control rock throwers.  Let us call an end to terrorism on both
sides.  There are extremists on both sides that are ruining things for the rest
of us.  We have to talk to each other, understand each other, but most of all
work with each other to come to a peacefull arrangement.  When two children
fight each other the parents come out and break them apart, then they make the
the children appologize to each other and shake hands.  Well, in this case we
are the parents.  We have to make the decision for peace.  So, let us not hurl
insults at each other.  Remember, Arabs and Jews are brothers, lets start
acting like it...


--Peter Cohen
From: abrasaw@vax1.bham.ac.uk
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
Subject: occupied newsgroup
Date: 30 Dec 92 21:17:34 GMT
Organization: University of Birmingham
NNTP-Posting-Host: vax3.bham.ac.uk

In the last week or so, it is pretty clear that an invasion of this
newsgroup has been going on by our cousins. The similarity between 
this one and the other implemented some decades ago is stiking. 
Our cosins, being not satisfied by occupying talk.poltics.mideast 
they have moved now to occupy this group as well. Soon we need 
the U.N. to issue a resolution dividing this newsgroup between us 
and them with a possibility of another cycle of coflict. In order 
to avoid that, it may be necessary to change the newsgroup name or 
turned it into moderated one.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
From: chrism@cirrus.com (Chris Metcalfe)
Subject: Re: Jews and Ozir (Was Re: What is H a m a s ??)
Organization: Cirrus Logic Inc.
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 18:38:38 GMT

(Hamaza H. Salah) writes:

>>                Some Jews consider there is only one God, but they don't
>>follow
>>his rules, that are in Torah.  For example, torah says one thing but they do
>>the other.  This means they don't listen to what God judgement is, rather they
>>follow someone's else.
>>_____________
>>                 (______   _  |   _  |_
>>_____ H A M Z A ________) |-| |_ |-| | |

Hamaza is here stating a Quranic axiom, that some Jews do not strictly follow the
Torah -- for example they accept monetary compensation for injuries instead of
taking an eye for an eye.

My question to Hamaza is this: should they listen to G-d's judgement that Eretz
Israel is eternally sacred to, and a possesion of the Jewish people as written in 
the Torah?

-- Chris Metcalfe


Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
From: ahmed@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Ahmed El-Habbash)
Subject: Re: He's finally arrived
Organization: DSG, Dept. of Computer Science, Trinity College Dublin
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 14:29:23 GMT

In <1993Jan9.041308.2056@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg> othman@ntrc25.ntrc.ntu.ac.sg (othman (EEE/Div 4)) writes:

>Is Sarah an arabic /islamic name?

Sarah is the name of the wife of Ibrahim (Pbuh), the father of Muslims.
>--
>Othman bin Ahmad, School of EEE,

Ahmed.

-- 
Ahmed I. El-Habbash, 
Department of Computer Science, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland.
Tel: office: +353-1-7021524,  Home: +353-1-937402.
	
Xref: sparky soc.culture.arabic:6504 talk.politics.mideast:25207