From: starbuck@galaxy.ucr.edu (starbuck)
Newsgroups: alt.feminism
Subject: Re: Damned Souls (was Re: Version Five)
Date: 10 Jan 93 09:51:39 GMT
Organization: University of California, Riverside

In article <726643652@lear.cs.duke.edu> gazit@cs.duke.edu (Hillel) writes:

>I don't want to help a system which is discriminatory, and 
>passive resistance seems to me appropriate.  IMO if everybody
>will refuse to fill up AA forms, the AA system will collapse.

I agree with you Hillel, Just toss them in the trash. 

>*Think* who competes against you in the graduate schools; have you 
>seen too many blacks between the students?  The AA helps mostly 
>women, and works against white and asian men.  You are obviously
>on the winning side.

You are correct.  Very correct.  I posted the stats from the 
a Department of Education publication that showed for over 
five years that women have been awarded over ** 51% ** of
the BA/BS's and MA/MS's in this country.  As far as Phd's 
go women lag but are some where around 34%.  Close but no
cigar.  Yet a little over 30% of faculty positions are women.
They have their equal share based on the number of Phds.
Yet they whine and get angery and get in our face and we
still don't get it. 

Yet when I posted the stats the feminist element on the net
had nothing good to say about them.  In fact no one but myself
felt it was progress and should be a reason to rejoyce.  But
no, the feminist element put it down for one reason of another.
Such as "well their not science degrees" ect ect.  Hell if
women are enrolled and are gaining a fair share of degree's
then I say what ever they want to study is ok with me.  
Attention feminists:  You do not have the right to make
choices for anyone but yourself.  

The truth is that were they to accept these number then where
would their arguments for AA be.  So even though women have
their cut of degrees and the peojection is about 54% by 2000
for BA/BS and MA/MS with an increase in Phd's to I think around
40% it is not good enough for the feminist element. 

As a side bar I wondered why if the trend for women has been 
going up why do they stop at the masters level.   I am sure the
feminist would say it is an evil white male plot but I doubt
that is the truth.  

Funny thing happened.  We invited a Biochemist
from back east to come out (all expences paid) and visit our
lab for a few days to see if she had an interest in doing a
post-doc with us.  Over lunch the topic of why you went for
a Phd came up.  She said one of the main reasons was she 
did't think she could get a job.  (Good reason).  One of
our Phd students cut in and said it was her reason also.

Two unrelated women.  One with a Phd the other a Phd student
who has passed her orals both had the same reason.  Fear of
not finding a job with a BS.  So I asked two other women in
our lab who were working on a MS and Phd, two other women
who had graduated with MS's from our lab in the last year,
and a few other women who were either grad students or post
doc's about why they went on to grad school.  I was supprised
to find that fear of not getting a job was a prime factor
with three others.  I don't think it means much since I
suspect many guy have the same reasons but it is interesting. 

You said AA helps mostly women, I almost agree.
I think  AA helps mostly "WHITE" women, not all women.
You don't see many Black women in grad school do you.  How
about Hispanic women?  How about Black men? 

I posted at that time that I did not feel White women were
in any more need of AA, at least as far as Education went.
You should have heard them whine when I stated that AA if it
must be should go to those who are members of a real minority
To me white women who use these program are
creating "people of color", (god I hate that phoney phase) out
of the aid they need.  

When I brought up the fact that Black men needed more help
than white women there was a great deal more whining especially
by women who were white and Identified themselves as grad
students.  (The old I got mine and screw the rest especially
if they are Black men routine).  I was informed how much
worse white women have it than Black men do.  ( And you
wonder why I am anti-feminsist.) 

starbuck 

Newsgroups: alt.feminism