HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jfurr@nyx.cs.du.edu (Joel Furr)
Subject: Re: Advice For a New Player
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 92 11:41:20 GMT

In article <01GSXEM8VE3800046G@BROWNCOG.BITNET> YONI@BROWNCOG.BITNET writes:
>Greetings-
>Wow!How do I start? I've "gotten" many files from the "Judge."I'd like to know
>the best way to learn Diplomacy. Is there a game I could possibly observe?
>How do I get the rulebook? Can it be found on the net?

The rulebook _cannot_ be found on the net.  Although Avalon-Hill gave
permission for the MAPS to be made publicly available, the game
"Diplomacy" is a copyrighted, trademarked property of Avalon-Hill.  You
_must_ own your own copy to receive any sympathy from the net.

You can obtain Diplomacy by asking your local hobby/games store to order a
copy... I paid $24 two years ago, I believe.  Or you can write Avalon-Hill
at 4517 Harford Road, Baltimore, MD 21214.

Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.dipl-l
Date:         Wed, 23 Dec 1992 18:18:52 +0100
Reply-To:     loeb@geocub.greco-prog.fr
From:         Daniel LOEB <loeb@GEOCUB.GRECO-PROG.FR>
Subject:      New game Announcements?
              23 Dec 1992 08:46:56 GMT
              <9212231346.AA05408@geocub.greco-prog.fr>

Regarding the recent proposal to create a list to inform players of
new gamestarts.
It already exists... sort of.
By signing on to the pseudogame CONTROL as an observer, player, or
master you are automatically iformed (to various extents) of any
developments on that JUDGE.


Yours, Daniel Loeb                              loeb@geocub.greco-prog.fr
HOME    150, cours Victor-Hugo; Appt D45; 33000 Bordeaux France
WORK    LABRI; Universite de Bordeaux I; 33405 Talence Cedex France
PHONE(H)+(33) 56 31 48 26, (W)+(33) 56 84 69 05, (FAX) +(33) 56 84 66 69
-------------
      "BUSH AND QUAYLE, JUST SAY NOE!"
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Date:         Thu, 31 Dec 1992 03:20:48 +0800
Reply-To:     H9009699@HKUCC.BITNET
From:         H9009699@HKUCC.BITNET
Subject:      Forgive me!!!

Hello, every Diper,

       Recently I have joined a gunboat game and noted that it was a none-
press game. Without asking other people engaging in this game (esp the one
who created this game), I have changed the game to a press game. Afterwards,
a player withdrew when he'd found the game changed to a press one. A week
later (or more), another player resigned without reason. Then the one who
created this game sent a broadcast message to condemn my actions and said
that I was a idiot. Of course, I feel a little bit angry about this. Why
did he so rude?... but I never can have the anwser since the one who blamed
me had also left.

       This is my first game and unfortunately, I have this unhappy experience
once I've joined my first game. Hope this never happen to me again.

       I still feel very confused why there are people who loved to play
none-press Dip. Dip is a game of negotiations and communications, isn't it?

       Anyways, if I really have made certain people who loved none-press
game unhappy, forgive me!

Earnest
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.dipl-l
Date:         Mon, 21 Dec 1992 13:13:59 PST
Reply-To:     Christopher Rimple <crimp@MICROSOFT.COM>
From:         Christopher Rimple <crimp@MICROSOFT.COM>
Subject:      Re: Disappearance of "Hornet"

|	It strikes me that it would be useful to have a "bin" where
|interested people could throw their names and game preferences in. That way,
|we could know when there is enough interest to start a game of a particular
|variant/skill level/press type/etc.

When I LISTed the Washington Judge for the first time, I found that
there were many games but none that interested me had openings.  So, I
created a new game and it filled up within a few days.

The simplest way to play the variant you want is to create one.  There
doesn't have to be a moderator for a game to be played, so you can
remain a player.  Other people will join if they're interested.

Chris

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
 Christopher Rimple       |  crimp@microsoft.com     |  One bad sector
 One Microsoft Way        |  (206) 936-5900 (voice)  |     can ruin
 Redmond, WA  98052  USA  |  (206) 936-7329 (fax)    |  your whole day
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.dipl-l
Date:         Thu, 31 Dec 1992 14:04:29 PST
Reply-To:     Gift Horse <jschell%sdcc13.UCSD.EDU@SDSC.BITNET>
From:         Gift Horse <jschell%sdcc13.UCSD.EDU@SDSC.BITNET>
Subject:      dip rulebook

Joel Furr <jfurr@nyx.cs.du.edu> said that the rulebook cannot be found
on the net.  I disagree.  I personally _have_ found it on the net and am
currently in possession of it.  I will not say where I found it because it
is mentioned in the FAQ for rec.games.board.diplomacy and that's how I
found out about it.  If anyone still can't find it after reading the FAQ,
then send me mail and I _might_ tell you.  BCNU.

  --  Jon Schell  --
      The Master
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.dipl-l
From: jfurr@nyx.cs.du.edu (Joel Furr)
Subject: Re: dip rulebook
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 93 08:33:42 GMT

In article <9212312204.AA02713@sdcc13.UCSD.EDU> Gift Horse <jschell%sdcc13.UCSD.EDU@SDSC.BITNET> writes:
>Joel Furr <jfurr@nyx.cs.du.edu> said that the rulebook cannot be found
>on the net.  I disagree.  I personally _have_ found it on the net and am
>currently in possession of it.  I will not say where I found it because it
>is mentioned in the FAQ for rec.games.board.diplomacy and that's how I
>found out about it.  If anyone still can't find it after reading the FAQ,
>then send me mail and I _might_ tell you.  BCNU.

The rulebook cannot be legally found on the net.  You can obtain the
specific rules for each variant on the net but you cannot obtain the
nitty-gritty of the rules.  This is mentioned specifically in the FAQ.  If
you have obtained the rules on the net you're violating Avalon-Hill's
copyright.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.dipl-l
Date:         Sat, 2 Jan 1993 16:21:52 TZONE
Reply-To:     Timothy Hayman <tdh@AIS.ORG>
From:         Timothy Hayman <tdh@AIS.ORG>
Subject:      'bologna' needs a player

Game 'bologna' on the Washington judge needs a new Florence.
If you are familiar with Machiavelli, c'mon down and sign on!
The game has only gone one turn, and Florence isn't in a real
bad position or anything.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.dipl-l
Date:         Wed, 30 Dec 1992 09:36:24 -0500
Reply-To:     David C Kovar <kovar@WORLD.STD.COM>
From:         David C Kovar <kovar@WORLD.STD.COM>
Subject:      Judges going down ...

  The EFF judge seems to have run out of disk space, due to no fault of it's
own. I'm working on the problem now.

-David
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.dipl-l
Date:         Mon, 21 Dec 1992 21:03:50 -0500
Reply-To:     Patrick Rusk <rusk@MARBLE.COM>
From:         Patrick Rusk <rusk@MARBLE.COM>
Subject:      Re: Disappearance of "Hornet"

> |	It strikes me that it would be useful to have a "bin" where
> |interested people could throw their names and game preferences in. That
> |way, we could know when there is enough interest to start a game of a
> |particular variant/skill level/press type/etc.
>

> When I LISTed the Washington Judge for the first time, I found that
> there were many games but none that interested me had openings.  So, I
> created a new game and it filled up within a few days.
>

> The simplest way to play the variant you want is to create one.  There
> doesn't have to be a moderator for a game to be played, so you can
> remain a player.  Other people will join if they're interested.

Chris,

	My best understanding of the current situation is that:

> **  Note: As of November 17th, 1992, the judge at the University of
> **  Washington is winding down and not allowing any new games to be
> **  started.  Sorry.

and that:

> David Kovar (jdr@morrolan.eff.org), runs the EFF judge, and has a rule that
> says that all games on the judge must remain moderated.

It would thus appear that your solution would only work at yet another site.
The only other two I know of are in Australia and South Africa. Quite a
distance to play from (though this is the Internet 8^) ).

	I suspect -- though I have no direct experience -- that unmoderated
games ultimately need moderation of some form. Thus, someone must willingly
or unwillingly be accountable for them.

	So, if we went with the bin idea, people could easily express their
desire to play a particular variant with no side affects until such time as
someone rouses the interest to moderate the game.

	Am I mistaken in my assumptions? Does anyone have any suggestions?
-----
Patrick Dean Rusk		(W) 617-891-5555
Associate Software Engineer	(F) 617-891-5226
Marble Associates, Inc.		(H) 617-923-0953
38 Edge Hill Road		(E) rusk@marble.com (NeXTmail)
Waltham, MA 02154
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.dipl-l
Date:         Tue, 22 Dec 1992 16:04:00 EST
Reply-To:     "PLUTO::DELEMOSM"
              <DELEMOSM%PLUTO.decnet@APRINT.DHMC.DARTMOUTH.EDU>
From:         "PLUTO::DELEMOSM"
              <DELEMOSM%PLUTO.decnet@APRINT.DHMC.DARTMOUTH.EDU>
Subject:      New game Announcements?

>From:         Patrick Rusk <rusk@MARBLE.COM>
>
>	It strikes me that it would be useful to have a "bin" where
>interested people could throw their names and game preferences in. That way,
>we could know when there is enough interest to start a game of a particular
>variant/skill level/press type/etc.

I rather like that idea... and I would add, as long as we're discussing access
to new games, is there some way that I can get information about the creation
a new game other than through the 'list' command?  It would be helpful to
receive a 'new game announcement,' if you will, that describes briefly the
pertinent facts on a newly created game.  That eliminates the need to
periodically submit a list command to find out if any games of interest have
become available.  How many list requests does the judge handle in a day,
anyway?

Marc
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.dipl-l
Date:         Wed, 23 Dec 1992 00:22:00 GMT
Reply-To:     dylan@cix.compulink.co.uk
From:         Dylan Harris <dylan@CIX.COMPULINK.CO.UK>
Subject:      say

I notice a new version of The Judge source code has been released.
Has anyone looked at adapting The Judge to other operating systems?
Would this be appreciated by the original author?

+------------------------------------------------------------------+
Snail: Dylan Harris
Mail : 9 Burystead Rise   Voice: +44 933 460034 (GMT)
       Raunds             Fax:   +44 933 624906
       Wellingborough   Email: dylan@cix.compulink.co.uk
       Northamptonshire   70714.1025@compuserve.com
       NN9 6RZ    vdylanh@microsoft.com
       United Kingdom
+------------------------------------------------------------------+
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.dipl-l
Date:         Mon, 21 Dec 1992 15:19:10 -0500
Reply-To:     Patrick Rusk <rusk@MARBLE.COM>
From:         Patrick Rusk <rusk@MARBLE.COM>
Subject:      Re: Disappearance of "Hornet"

> Marc writes:
>

> It was my first attempt to sign on to a game, and I must admit, it makes me
> feel a little unwanted.

	I, too, experienced difficulties signing on to a game for the first
time. I wanted to try out a standard Diplomacy game, but they appeared to all
be booked. I ended up being the last person to sign on to the Machiavelli
game, which had the only available slot among the eff games (as far as I
could tell).

	It strikes me that it would be useful to have a "bin" where
interested people could throw their names and game preferences in. That way,
we could know when there is enough interest to start a game of a particular
variant/skill level/press type/etc. I'm not sure that signing on as an
alternate or observer to existing games is a sufficient way to handle showing
particular interest.

	I am new to email Diplomacy and this list, so it's very possible that
this has all been thrashed out before. If so, I beg your pardon.

	Thank you.
-----
Patrick Dean Rusk		(W) 617-891-5555
Associate Software Engineer	(F) 617-891-5226
Marble Associates, Inc.		(H) 617-923-0953
38 Edge Hill Road		(E) rusk@marble.com (NeXTmail)
Waltham, MA 02154
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.dipl-l
Date:         Wed, 30 Dec 1992 16:33:49 -0500
Reply-To:     David C Kovar <kovar@WORLD.STD.COM>
From:         David C Kovar <kovar@WORLD.STD.COM>
Subject:      Re: Forgive me!!!

>       Recently I have joined a gunboat game and noted that it was a none-
>press game. Without asking other people engaging in this game (esp the one
>who created this game), I have changed the game to a press game. Afterwards,
>a player withdrew when he'd found the game changed to a press one. A week
>later (or more), another player resigned without reason. Then the one who
>created this game sent a broadcast message to condemn my actions and said
>that I was a idiot. Of course, I feel a little bit angry about this. Why
>did he so rude?... but I never can have the anwser since the one who blamed
>me had also left.

  Unfortunately, I don't think this is a joke.

  It's very important to not change the flavor of the game without getting
an agreement from everyone concerned. (This is one reason for running
every game moderated.) Changing the deadlines, options, and the like
are all considered changing the flavor.

  It was not the game's creator who was rude, it was you who was rude,
I'm afraid. You took an established game and without any consultation,
changed a very basic attribute of it. I think the creator had every
right to be upset with you.

>       This is my first game and unfortunately, I have this unhappy experience
>once I've joined my first game. Hope this never happen to me again.

  If you sit back and observe before acting, I am sure this will never
happen to you again.

>       I still feel very confused why there are people who loved to play
>none-press Dip. Dip is a game of negotiations and communications, isn't it?

  Diplomacy is what you make of it. We have variants that please, and
displease, all sorts of people. That's part of the beauty of the game.

-David
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.dipl-l,rec.games.diplomacy
From: jfurr@nyx.cs.du.edu (Joel Furr)
Subject: Illegally getting copies of the Diplomacy rules over the net
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 93 20:36:36 GMT

In article <9301011044.AA11414@sdcc13.UCSD.EDU> Gift Horse
<jschell%sKdcc13.UCSD.EDU@SDSC.BITNET> writes: 
>I wrote:
>>>Joel Furr <jfurr@nyx.cs.du.edu> said that the rulebook cannot be found
>>>on the net.  I disagree.  I personally _have_ found it on the net and am
>>>currently in possession of it.  I will not say where I found it because it
>>>is mentioned in the FAQ for rec.games.board.diplomacy and that's how I
>>>found out about it.  If anyone still can't find it after reading the FAQ,
>>>then send me mail and I _might_ tell you.  BCNU.
>
>Joel replies:
>
>>The rulebook cannot be legally found on the net.  You can obtain the
>>specific rules for each variant on the net but you cannot obtain the
>>nitty-gritty of the rules.  This is mentioned specifically in the FAQ.  If
>>you have obtained the rules on the net you're violating Avalon-Hill's
>>copyright.
>
>I say:
>
>I don't know anything about the legality of it.  I didn't type it in
>and make it available to everyone.  I didn't violate the copyright.
>It's not my fault if I went around to various ftp sites and one of
>the files I happened to grab happened to be an exact copy of the
>Diplomacy rulebook.  And the site is mentioned in the FAQ too.  I'm
>just passing on some general info for everyone's benefit.  BTW, it's
>a real hassle to get the rules.  Does that count for anything? :)

Nope, it doesn't count for anything at all.  It's also a big hassle to get
your hands on a LOT of things, why, you have to go down to your bookstore
and pay MONEY for them.

If you enjoy Diplomacy, call or write Avalon-Hill and pay money for the
rules.  Or simply check with your local games and hobby store.  I'd also
suggest that the maintainers of the FTP sites check their sites to see if
someone's placed an illegal copy of the rules online, and if they're found
there, ERASE them.  Diplomacy fans shouldn't commit crimes to play a game
they like.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.dipl-l
Date:         Sat, 26 Dec 1992 18:22:58 +0100
Reply-To:     loeb@geocub.greco-prog.fr
From:         Daniel LOEB <loeb@GEOCUB.GRECO-PROG.FR>
Subject:      opening

There may be an opening in the tournament game WIN92.
For qualification details read the full listing on the
EFF judge.


Yours, Daniel Loeb                              loeb@geocub.greco-prog.fr
HOME    150, cours Victor-Hugo; Appt D45; 33000 Bordeaux France
WORK    LABRI; Universite de Bordeaux I; 33405 Talence Cedex France
PHONE(H)+(33) 56 31 48 26, (W)+(33) 56 84 69 05, (FAX) +(33) 56 84 66 69
-------------
      "BUSH AND QUAYLE, JUST SAY NOE!"
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Subject: (no subject given)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.dipl-l
Date:         Fri, 1 Jan 1993 02:44:51 PST
Reply-To:     Gift Horse <jschell%sdcc13.UCSD.EDU@SDSC.BITNET>
From:         Gift Horse <jschell%sdcc13.UCSD.EDU@SDSC.BITNET>

I wrote:

>>Joel Furr <jfurr@nyx.cs.du.edu> said that the rulebook cannot be found
>>on the net.  I disagree.  I personally _have_ found it on the net and am
>>currently in possession of it.  I will not say where I found it because it
>>is mentioned in the FAQ for rec.games.board.diplomacy and that's how I
>>found out about it.  If anyone still can't find it after reading the FAQ,
>>then send me mail and I _might_ tell you.  BCNU.

Joel replies:

>The rulebook cannot be legally found on the net.  You can obtain the
>specific rules for each variant on the net but you cannot obtain the
>nitty-gritty of the rules.  This is mentioned specifically in the FAQ.  If
>you have obtained the rules on the net you're violating Avalon-Hill's
>copyright.

I say:

I don't know anything about the legality of it.  I didn't type it in
and make it available to everyone.  I didn't violate the copyright.
It's not my fault if I went around to various ftp sites and one of
the files I happened to grab happened to be an exact copy of the
Diplomacy rulebook.  And the site is mentioned in the FAQ too.  I'm
just passing on some general info for everyone's benefit.  BTW, it's
a real hassle to get the rules.  Does that count for anything? :)

BCNU.

  --  Jon Schell  --
      The Master
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X-VMS-To: IN%"dipl-l@mitvma"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.dipl-l
Date:         Wed, 30 Dec 1992 12:58:00 EST
Reply-To:     YONI@BROWNCOG.BITNET
From:         YONI@BROWNCOG.BITNET
Subject:      Advice For a New Player

Greetings-
Wow!How do I start? I've "gotten" many files from the "Judge."I'd like to know
the best way to learn Diplomacy. Is there a game I could possibly observe?
How do I get the rulebook? Can it be found on the net?
Any Advice on the best method to dive in would be helpful.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.dipl-l
Date:         Mon, 21 Dec 1992 14:22:00 EST
Reply-To:     "PLUTO::DELEMOSM"
              <DELEMOSM%PLUTO.decnet@APRINT.DHMC.DARTMOUTH.EDU>
From:         "PLUTO::DELEMOSM"
              <DELEMOSM%PLUTO.decnet@APRINT.DHMC.DARTMOUTH.EDU>
Subject:      Disappearance of "Hornet"

Help!
My game has disappeared.  I signed up for game "hornet" on the eff judge last
Thursday (maybe it was Friday...).  I received a message today that indicated
that the game moderator had resigned, and when I sent a "list hornet" command
to the judge, I was advised that my game did not exist.  Does anyone have an
idea how I can find out what happened to my game?  Better yet, does anybody
know what happened to my game?  It was my first attempt to sign on to a game,
and I must admit, it makes me feel a little unwanted.

Marc
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.dipl-l
Date:         Tue, 22 Dec 1992 09:39:29 -0500
Reply-To:     David C Kovar <kovar@WORLD.STD.COM>
From:         David C Kovar <kovar@WORLD.STD.COM>
Subject:      Creating games ....

From: Christopher Rimple <crimp@MICROSOFT.COM>

| The simplest way to play the variant you want is to create one.  There
| doesn't have to be a moderator for a game to be played, so you can
| remain a player.  Other people will join if they're interested.

  Just to make sure it is clear - this is not true for the EFF judge.
If you create a game on the EFF judge, you must moderate it. No unmoderated
games will be allowed.

-David
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.dipl-l
Date:         Wed, 30 Dec 1992 15:45:11 EST
Reply-To:     John Marychurch <johnm@MEGADATA.MEGA.OZ.AU>
From:         John Marychurch <johnm@MEGADATA.MEGA.OZ.AU>
Subject:      Press to CD

Q: Is it possible to send press to a CD power ?
   And have that press received by whoever (whenever)
   takes over that power.
   (So that the new player realises that we are allies
    before he/she eagerly launches his forces at my
    exposed flank).
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.dipl-l
Date:         Wed, 23 Dec 1992 11:25:05 -0600
Reply-To:     Joel Finkle <jjfink@SKCLA.MONSANTO.COM>
From:         Joel Finkle <jjfink@SKCLA.MONSANTO.COM>
Subject:      RE: New game Announcements?

> Regarding the recent proposal to create a list to inform players of
> new gamestarts.
> It already exists... sort of.
> By signing on to the pseudogame CONTROL as an observer, player, or
> master you are automatically iformed (to various extents) of any
> developments on that JUDGE.

AKKKKK!!!!
Do this only if you are REALLY REALLY serious about getting info about all
new games!!!

Remember what happened with HALL92:  There can only be so many total
players/observers/alternates in a game.  Was it 50?  Anyway.  If you're not
really dedicated to needing go know about every single game, think about this
before you do it.

(Hey:  Maybe CONTROL needs deadlines set, so it makes you go CD if you stay too
long?)

Joel

--
Have a Cool Yule!
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