From: ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: An Open ANSI Forth Implementation
Date: 10 Sep 92 11:55:38 GMT
Organization: EIEI-U

Category 10,  Topic 41
Message 85        Wed Sep 09, 1992
ELLIOTT.C                    at 16:10 EDT
 
 -----via CRS Premium Bulletin Board

 Date: 09-06-92 (10:00)
   To: JETHOMAS
 From: JACK WOEHR
 Subj: AN OPEN ANSI FORTH IMPLEM

 -> We have 2 objections to free Forths.  One is that they'll be
 so bad -> they'll give Forth a bad name.  The other is that
 they'll be so good -> But there's no contradiction there.  We
 can have bad free forths and -> better free forths at the same
 time.  The worst of both worlds.

         The objections to free Forth are spurious, jaxthinx.

         First of all, bad free Forths get ignored. There haven't
 been that many. Even bad free Forths can get people interested.
 Allan Pratt's CFORTH for Unix was weak but novel, and got a lot
 of people started on the trail of coding Forth for Unix in C.
 The result? Bradley's CForth83 and Patel's TILE. Of course,
 Mitch Bradley, with the zeal of a repentant sinner, is now
 opposed to free Forth, after distributing one himself for years.

         Which brings up the second point: good free Forths, like
 Bradley's, aren't free, generally. They're SHAREWARE. F-PC is
 not FREE. It's SHAREWARE effectively, since you send money in
 for the printed docs.

         If the fact that Tom Zimmer can produce a commercial-
 quality Forth for less than it costs another vendor seems to put
 a hair in someone's ear, so be it. But don't let them slander
 Tom and say that shareware Forths are bad Forths. Usually,
 they're quite good. FIFTH is another example.

         Besides, to all these panicky vendors upset about "free"
 Forths, I address this question: DO YOU REALLY WANT CUSTOMERS
 WHO THINK THAT CUSTOMER SUPPORT IS FREE? When a person buys
 polyFORTH for the 80x86 for $995.00, they get A YEAR TELEPHONE
 SUPPORT.

         That's what you are buying with your vendor dollars.
 SUPPORT.

         Remember the greatest truly free Forth ever, F-83 by
 Laxen & Perry, which introduced a generation of Forthers to
 Forth. Henry Laxen and Michael Perry gave a corporate name to
 their freeware venture. They called it No Visible Support
 Software.

         So vendors, you're safe. Sure they dabble in free and
 shareware Forths. But when they get down to brass tacks, they
 still need us pros, at the price we charge.

         Am I theorizing? No, I work for one of the largest (by
 unit volume) Forth vendors in the world. There's free Forth for
 embedded control out there, but when they want the project, and
 they want it NOW, they buy Vesta Forth-83+.

         Does it bother Bobby Fischer that local chess clubs have
 championship tournaments that he isn't invited to? Does the low
 quality of chess at the Arvada, Colorado chess club turn people
 off to chess forever? Don't be like, fer shure, ridiculous.

         FREE FORTH FOREVER! You can quote me on that.

                          =jax=

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