From: rpowers@panix.com (Richard Powers)
Subject: Re: Christmas comes but once a year
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 21:44:36 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC

In <92361.082621U60703@uicvm.uic.edu> <U60703@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:
In article <1992Dec26.55805.22706@ms.uky.edu>, justin@hp750.ccs.uky.edu (Justin
Sullivan) says:

>>The irony is that everyone will get a puzzled look on their face when
>>they find you in a pool of your own blood.. You just TOLD them how
>>miserable you were (in so many words), but they'll all ask: "Why would
>>he do something like that?" Duh.. 


>Hi.....after  reading this I just felt a need to put my 2 cents in....

>Puzzled looks.....puzzled hearts/minds.....suicide is a very hard
>thing to understand.....my story in relation to this... 

I don't think many people here feel that suicide is such a hard thing
to understand.

>My older sister took her life last year, 2 days after
>X-mas...(tomorrow)....  throughout the year or two preceding
>this....she had brought it up occaision- ally....saying things
>like...."well...when I'm gone it won't matter anyways"..
>or..."shit...I'll just kill myself and be done with this shit"..... 

>Your statements about...duh...why?....are somewhat accurate....looking
>back now and remembering some of her statements I realize how we in
>the family didn't really HEAR what she was saying....or we heard but
>didn't really LISTEN....nobody wants to hear those kinds of
>things....all of us just thought that she said them in times of
>anger....that she'd never really do anything to harm herself.....it
>was just her way of venting her frustrations... 

>Duh...why?....I guess those left behind always think/feel this way
>because for some reason......for myself anyways....I wonder why
>because I cannot comprehend the thought/feeling process she must have
>went through...I cannot comprehend the depth of pain that she must
>have felt leading up to this...I don't want to believe that someone
>can have so much pain in their life...and not know where to turn for
>help...or fight those who reach out...we talked a lot and were very
>close....it wasn't enough.... 

>Your duh,why? statement also angered me too though....it made me feel
>like us survivors (which is what we are) just stand around perplexed
>and in O cloud of stupidity....not true....we just don't UNDERSTAND
>the act...we cannot relate....esp. with all of the help available
>today....I read that 80% (I think it was 80%) of all suicide victims
>don't go/refuse help, and that out of these 80%, apx. 2/3 could have
>been prevented....some with therapy/anti-depressants or combo of
>both....most don't go for help though because of the percieved stigma
>attached to needing help...my sister thought she SHOULD handle
>things....wouldn't go for help.... 

This blame-the-victim mentality may help "survivors" feel better, but
it doesn't have a basis in reality, and is a big hindrance when
suicidal people try to get help.  Speaking from experience, anyone who
tries to get help for suicidal feelings is pretty damn likely to have
their problems worsened by the experience.  From being treated as a
criminal to any number of inappropriate responses.  (One I actually
got from a friend was "take up jogging"!!!!)

I'm _not_ saying in any way that you were to blame.  But the response
most of society has to anyone expressing suicidal thoughts is hardly
helpful.  Did you know that a lot of counselors/agencies have a policy
of 'no suicidals'?  Sad but true.  I have learned the hard way not to
discuss my feelings with my 'friends'.  There is _noone_ I can talk to
when I'm in an ash mood.  So here I am, on ash.

So, please, do not blame your sister.  If you have never been through
feeling suicidal, you cannot possibly know how hard it is to get any
sort of help.  It is NOT just 'the perceived stigma attached to
needing help'!

All the help available today?  You really don't know what your talking
about.  But don't feel bad, most people don't.

>Your statement also seemed to me to minimize the severe pain/trauma a
>whole family would go through..as if "it" would happen and they'd
>wonder why,duh...  and then just carry on as if it were just another
>little glitch in their day.  IMO....this is the biggest false
>perception that a person who's contemplating suicide has.... 

Those of us who have gone through suicidal gestures/attempts before
can become very cynical of how families/friends/whatever react to us.
I for one have been just about ignored.  You don't know what its like
to have your friends and family not mention a word to you about the
scars on your wrist.  To have your friends disappear.  It feels like
they don't give a shit whether you live or die.

Try living with that.

While I cannot speak for Justin, I hope you can see how someone can
not care a whole hell of a lot about the 'severe pain/trauma a whole
family would go through...'. 

>I think of my sister every day....  I miss her every day....  To me it
>feels as though she was snatched away,and then reality/space/time just
>filled the void where she often stood....  I hear her laughter, feel
>her pain, and sometimes think I am beginning to understand now....now
>when it's too late....  I wish I had her here to listen....REALLY
>listen this time...wondering some- times if she'd still "do it".....
>Sometimes the pain/guilt of the whole thing paralyzes me for
>days....thinking I could have prevented it....when in reality I
>couldn't.... 

While it wasn't a suicide, my mother also died a year ago this month.
Theres a big hole left in my life.  Blaming yourself doesn't help
anything.  Let me tell you, as someone who knows what it is to feel
suicidal, that it was not your fault.

Blaming society may at least be constructive.  You could join a mental
health advocacy group to try to change the stereotypes which hurt the
chances that someone who is suicidal will receive help.  (Just a
thought). 

>I could keep going on but won't....I guess I just want you out there
>to realize that the survivors of a suicide are left with so much
>pain/trauma/anger/confusion to deal with.....and It stays with us
>always...it just lessons over time...but for me the unanswered
>questions will always be there somewhere in the back of my
>mind....along with the pain....and along with the love that I will
>always carry for her in my heart....and a part of me likes to believe
>that if she knew what all of us felt for her...REALLY knew...she'd be
>here today..... 

>But if anyone out there who reads this is in that much
>pain/frustration and is seriuosly contemplating suicide...please think
>of those you know....  family/friends/co-workers etc.....whom you
>think don't care/love/un- derstand what you want/need.....they'd
>probably do anything to help you if they could just understand...and
>it's not their fault that they don't....  Once you're gone..that's
>it...there's no second chance...no opportunity for you to see and know
>how much they really care....and the wounds you leave behind are
>forever....please go for professional help at all costs...the thought
>of another family going through what ours did (does!) pains me. 

This last paragraph pisses me off.  Sorry, I meant to keep this
followup as un-flame-like as possible, but thats how I feel.  You seem
to care nothing for the person who is contemplating suicide.  `Go get
help because your family will hurt' Seems to be what you're saying.

And "they'd probably do anything to help you..."?  To be blunt:
bullshit.  As you said yourself "nobody wants to hear those kinds of
things....".  Absolutely true.  I could give examples from my own
life, but I don't want to get into it again.




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Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday