From: sjayanth@ringer.cs.utsa.edu (Satyanand V. Jayanthi)
Subject: hyderabadi muslims, patriotism etc,.
Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 06:48:45 GMT


:(Satyanand V. Jayanthi) writes:
:> (Satya Prabhakar) writes:
:>:
:>:1. You extrapolate the behavior of a few individuals to the entire
:>:   Muslim population of India. Rhetoric 101 tells us that this is
:>:   an old trick in the book. So, let us not fall for that.
:>
:>    I am not extrapolating the behaviour of few to the entire community,
:>    all i am saying is there are a *few*. Now how few is the question,
:>    depending on ones personal experiences we have different answers to that.
:>    Do i take it that we both accept the presence of a "few" anti indian
:>    muslims and our differences are only on the question of how "few"?

:As there might be as many Hindus who are equally unpatriotic! As someone
:else pointed out, how about Hindus who come to US and renounce Indian
:citizenship for material benefits! What could be more unpatriotic?


Right, there can be many hindus who are unpatriotic ( in many ways ). But
i dont think you will find any hindu being loyal to some other country just
because it is a hindu majority country. Infact not just hindus, its not 
found in any other religion(except islam). And though i cannot prove it to you
 i say that and indian hindu who is not patriotic is simply incapable of being
 patriotic.At worst he is selfish. We do not find any loyality to any other cou
ntry.Whereas its the opposite here. We find among some sections of muslims not
just some plain disinterestedness in issues concerning indians but also open
enthusiasm for things pakistani. Dont you think it is improper? (taking
into consideration the other issues that i have mentioned ) Open anti
indian attitude. That is what i am saying here. Graffitti in muslim areas,
pakistani flags on mosques...well there are many such things which we 
observe. A hindu might be unpatriotic, but i can assure you, in that
case he will not be loyal to any other country as well.

     As to people taking up citizenships of other countries, i dont see
any problem with that. They are infact being straight about the whole 
thing. I would want people who root for pakistan on every issue,
solely because of religious affinity to go and take up pakistani citi-
zenships..no problem.. I will not call them traitors.

:The problem you see is this: A fraction of Muslims behave in a way that 
:leads many Hindus believe that they are anti-Indian because they are
:pro-Islam. And this leads to the definition of a Muslim Minskian frame, 
:i.e., a stereotype. (But Hindus choose to ignore the fact that they can
:be unpatriotic too!)

   It could be true that hindus have an exaggerated opinion about muslim
support to pakistan. But i dont see how celebration of pakistani independence
day, and *not* celebrating indian independence day, hoisting pakistani flags
(the incidents could be few..but even then they dont help) celebrating
indias discomfiture on many occasions...I dont see how this is going to
help hindus in changing their steriotype muslim image.

:[It appears that all other considerations are peripheral to this issue.]

:For example, Even if I say all Indian tennis players are two-bit (they are!)
:patsies, you would not call me anti-Indian (or so I hope), mainly because 
:I, a Hindu, do not fit the stereotype of an India-hater. But, if a Muslim 
:from India says that the Pakistani cricket team is far superior to the 
:Indian team, it immediately raises a flag in the mind because of the
:frame we generated.


The whole problem is that it is not all this simple. If he says that pakistani
team was better, I will not have any problem with that. It is when he says
he wants the pakistani team to win that i start having problems..and we
can extrapolate this argument to other issues as well, not just sports.

:Abstracting one level: Hindus by default are patriotic and the same 
:cannot be said of Muslims, because the behavior of a few has cast 
:enough doubt.

:An analogy: If a man says "Women don't know how to find their
:way about" we readily call him a sexist. But if a woman says
:that we give her the benefit of doubt and attribute her
:comment to disinterested observation. 

:Because, how can women be sexist? But men can be sexist because a 
:fraction of them have shown such tendencies in the past.

:This is grossly unfair because many women can be sexist. You are
:giving them the benefit of doubt by wrongly defining the word.

:Satya Prabhakar

What you said above is true. Hindus by default are assumed to be patriotic.
And may be the same privelege is not granted onto muslims. But my experiences
have all along strengthened my suspicions. I am not talking about isolated
incidents because they just could be isloated. I have in mind large scale
demonstration of these pro pakistani emotions on a number of occasions.

Anyhow, you might be interested in this well documented incident. Please
comment and explain how it could have happened.

The urdu text book for a high school class in AP showed india map without
Kashmir. Now the book was in circulation for more that 3 weeks, with many
students and schools using it. It finally was noticed when a BJP legislator
raised this issue in the assembly. When you know that the urdu department
is almost an exclusive preserve of muslims, i just wonder how such a major
goof could have happened..I hope you agree that it is both large scale and 
a delibrate occurance.

This was in 1988 or 89..i dont exactly remember that. And when such incidents
get reported again and again, I no longer can trust these big logical reasoning
about not extrapolating the actions of few to all etc., All i say is "shit
some of them are unpatriotic". I dont start analysing their each and every
strand of thought. Its as simple as that..and the more there are reports
of pakistani flag hoisting, the more my conviction get stronger.

-Narain