From: wbarnes@sura.net (Bill Barnes)
Subject: Re: What about Anime?
Organization: SURAnet, College Park, MD, USA, NA, Earth, Milky Way
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 10:26:09 GMT

[Golly, I just *love* being a week behind on news...NOT! 8^/]

In article <1992Mar30.084608.1174@gn.ecn.purdue.edu> gavigan@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Ryan P. Gavigan) writes:
>In article <1992Mar29.013923.9148@cam.compserv.utas.edu.au> cjudd@esk (Craig Thomas Judd) writes:
>>In article <1405@celia.UUCP>, neil@celia.UUCP (Neil Richmond) writes:
>>>You had suggested that Akira should have been nominated for a best picture. I
>>>pointed out why I thought it wasn't a best picture candidate. You like the
>>>elements in the story. I disliked the disjointed storytelling. I agree that
>>>there is some beautiful artwork in Akira, but Warriors of the Wind, Laputa had

Errr, I think you either mean Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind or Laputa:
Castle in the Sky...or do you mean both?

Warriors of the Wind?!  You mean the English dubbed version of-?  Geez, if
you though that had continuity, you oughta really enjoy the original (based on
reports on how badly the original was mangled in transition)!

>>>a better story continuity than Akira. I haven't talked to many people who could
>>>follow the story of Akira without referencing the books. This makes Akira
>>>bad storytelling, from a movie point of view, and therefore not best picture
>>>material.

Perhaps it makes for bad storytelling in the sense that it doesn't have much
of a plot, but perhaps the plot is not the point?  Ryan Gavigan included
a number of quotes from Otomo that pretty well say that the plot wasn't the
point to the movie; my guess would be he realized it would be suicide to
actually try to compact his entire story into two hours and thus focused
on other stuff like the imagery and whatnot.  You may not like the final
result, which is fine; it's all subjective inna final analysis anyways.

>And as for another comment about the more money on "look" than on 
>character animation, Most Disney characters don't seem that detailed to
>me, very little shading, very cartoony.  Plus, maybe the Japanese filmmakers
>can make better use for the money than animating non-living tableware.

8^>  Definitely the most superfluous scene in the entire movie.

>Even though AKIRA was widely acclaimed for its visuals, it only had budget
>of about 20% that of the recent Disney films (if what I remember the budgets
>for LM and BAtB were supposed to be).

How big were the budgets for these two?  I didn't think it was more than
$10 million, but I don't really know for sure...But I thought Akira had
a fairly big budget, like a billion yen or so?  Am I misremembering my numbers
again?

>And even THAT was a HUE amount for 
>what normally is allocated.  Castle Cagliostro was supposedly around $8 mil.,

Huh?!  Are you sure you're not getting yen and dollars mixed up, Ryan?  I
was certain Cagliostro's budget was nowhere near that big!

>Wings of Honneasmise(well nobody is sure on an accurate budget for the
>animation itself).

The last estimate I read somewhere on r.a.a. was $6 million, though I have
no idea how accurate this is nor what yen-to-dollar ratio it uses...

>IMHO, give anime filmmakers the same money as Disney,
>and they could blow Disney away.  Some would argue Miyazaki already does.

I would.  Disney's stuff is good on a technical level, but with only a few
exceptions, they're pretty mindless.  All flash and little substance, for
the most part.  Anime has its mind candy too, but its substantial works
probably blow all the Disney heavyweights away, or at least stack up against
them pretty well.  If nothing else, Disney's insistence on never going over
the 90 minute mark (Fantasia being the one notable exception, and even that
doesn't really count since it's a collection of shorts) limits the depth
of the stories they can tell.  Their insistence on at least one musical
number per movie if not per scene change cuts into precious story and character
development time.

[Note:  This is not an attack on Disney.  I *like* Disney; I've been a fan
for most of my life and intend to continue to be one for some time.  But
I recognize its limitations.  I tell it as I believe it.  So please, all you
die-hard Mousekeeters, don't torch my apartment.  8^]

>When CAPS-like technology becomes widely available and inexpensive
>(and it will), that will take a large portion of the cost out of production
>by removing the labor intensive cel painting, and make a lot more possible
>in terms of budget allocations.

Out of curiosity, does anyone know roughly how much CAPS costs currently
compared to traditional cel painting?  I presume it's already less expensive
but I wanna know how much (or if it isn't, why they use it already).

>Well, AKIRA itself tells you when it came out.  AKIRA was released in 
>theaters July 16, 1988.  The same date as AKIRA first decides to blow up
>Neo-Tokyo.

I hadn't realized this!  That's neat!  I like that.  Sorta like the Max Headroom
openings that said "20 minutes in the future..." it puts the audience more
in touch with what's going on, so to speak.

>Wait till a translated commercial Patlabor: The Movie comes out, now there is a
>great film.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!  Yes, I would *love* to see a commercial version of this
someday!  Wouldn't mind a commercial version of Wings of Honneamise,
most Miyazaki flicks, and Project Eden (alright, the last is hardly a cinematic
classic, but I need some mindless fun, don't I?!).

>Compared to AKIRA, the scenes I have seen from BatB are considerably inferior,
>IMHO.  Besides, BatB is a musical (basically) and ergo, turns me off.  

The fact that it's a musical doesn't bother me too much; most Disney films
are.  I just wish a) musicals weren't Disney's primary animated film
endevour, b) they'd stop limiting themselves to such short movies, and
c) maybe show a little more daring in their subject matter.  Oh well.

>Somebody once said that all anime characters were the same, just with 
>different hairstyles.  Well, don't all the recent female main characters
>from Disney films look the same with different hairstyles and "outfits", looks
>that way to me.

Tic for tac.  8^>  Yes, I've noticed a certain similarity to recent main
female characters.  Give Belle a red wig, blue contacts, and who do you
have?  Even their names are equal length!  8^P  And hey, give the human
Beast a dye job, maybe a haircut, and you'll never guess who you end up
with...8-]

"Duhhh, isn't this Speed Racer?"  BLAM BLAM BLAM BLAM BLAM BLAM!!!
[smoke curls from the smoking gun barrel as Bill grins evilly...]
-- 
Bill "I went thru 14 years of school for this?!" Barnes   wbarnes@sura.net
Disclaimer:  Don't assume anything I say is truthful, accurate, or worthwhile.
Datclaimer:  My employers wouldn't WANT to share some of my opinions.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation