HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cantrell@seqp4.sequoia.com (Paul Cantrell)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Crash after NEFI at the Vinyard?
Date: 28 Sep 92 20:31:39 GMT
Organization: Sequoia Computer Systems

In article <1992Sep23.183738.1738@eco.twg.com>, reece@eco.twg.com (Reece R. Pollack) writes:
> The story I've heard is that a Cessna 182 with three aboard clipped the
> trees and crashed while attempting the ILS 24 into MVY late friday night.
> Conditions were reported to be 200 ft and 1/2 miles.
> 
> The FAA shut down the ILS in case it was the cause. I'd planned to do
> that approach saturday morning (I'm working on my -IA), but it was NOTAMed
> OTS. Apparently it wasn't the ILS, because they put it back in service
> in time for me to fly it saturday evening on my way back home.

On one of the trips between Katama and MVY, I heard the FAA flight check
aircraft talking with the tower about something mundane, and remember
thinging it was strange for them to be working on the weekend. It wasn't
until later that I made the connection between the crash and flight check
being in the area. Obviously they were checking the ILS to see if there
was anything wrong which might have caused the crash. It just took a while
for it to sink in. Duh. :-(
-- 
                  THIS                  | Paul Cantrell "PC"
                  SPACE                 | cantrell@sequoia.com
              INTENTIONALLY             | DoD #1144
               LEFT BLANK               | HELO/ASEL/ZX10 Pilot
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: tvervaek@col.hp.com (Tom Vervaeke)
Subject: Re: Solo Rites
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 20:59:46 GMT
 
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division

1. Got a certificate from my FBO.
2. Got my picture taken with my instructor next to my trusty Cessna 152.
3. They procured and painted a t-shirt and hung it on the wall of the
   FBO. All soloers get this treatment. After about 1-2 months you can 
   remove your shirt from the wall and take it home. My shirt had some
   really cool hand drawn stuff on it including a plane and a runway and
   a little saying "Tom 'where's the airport?' Vervaeke. I had had
   trouble finding the airport during my early flight lessons. I soloed
   at 14.5 hours!

Congradulations on all you soloers out there. 

Tom Vervaeke
From: randy@khan.gatech.edu (Randal T. Abler)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: New Denver TCA NPRM Published
Date: 28 Sep 92 15:25:21 GMT
Organization: CERL-EE, Georgia Institue of Technology

In article <19vkn0INNa3j@news.aero.org> lmiller@aero.org (Lawrence H. Miller) writes:
|>In article <3400262@hpcc01.corp.hp.com> mtc@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Mark Cousins) writes:
|>>This TCA design business is interesting.  LA has some of the busiest
|>>airspace in the country...and yet the TCA seems to take up only that
|>>which it needs.  Contrast this with Atlanta, another busy airport to
|>>be sure, but surrounded by a postively immense TCA.

|>	LA's TCA is simpler than most because all LA's 4 runways
|>	are parallel, east-west. 

The same is true at Atlanta, four parallel runways, orientated east-west.
The main airport (Hartsfield) is at 1026 MSL, and the highest MEF
(terrian/obstacle height) under the TCA is 2200 MSL.  The TCA still
goes up to 12500 MSL.  At the top, the TCA radius is 35 NM, so going over 
the top is difficult without oxygen.  Going under 
the TCA is fairly easy, since the terrain is relatively flat, although
the TCA boundaries are not based on any visual landmarks.  VFR clearances
through the TCA are pretty much restricted to one N-S corridor at
5000 MSL over ATL.
-- 
Randal T. Abler   	randy@cerl.gatech.edu		 
CERL/EE Georgia Tech
From: prang@ssc-vax.boeing.com (Ron Wanttaja)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Fiberglass Gear Legs (Was Re: Canard Compromises)
Date: 29 Sep 92 22:42:25 GMT
Organization: Wolf-359 Survivor's Association ("Resistance is never

Keywords: EZ, Glasair

A while back I mentioned the Long-EZ's sensitivity to brake heat,
and someone asked why the Glasair (also with 'glass gear legs) didn't have
the same problem.

I talked to both my Long-EZ-owning buddy and Stoddard Hamilton about the
problem.

It seems it's a matter of design, and not just the nature of the beast.
My buddy avoids heavy braking on his EZ for two reasons:  First, there
*were* some problems with early EZs, and second, he's easy on the equipment
out of general principles.

The problem with the earlier EZs was reduced through the addition of some
aluminum shielding and some fiberfrax insulation.  It's no longer a problem
under normal circumstances, but apparently some owners mount larger brakes
which can cause excess heat to be transmitted to the legs, causing some
softening.

As far as Glasair is concerned... they've never had a problem with the
fiberglass getting too hot.  They use a LOT of aluminum down at the axle
level; the additional shielding and the use of a thicker leg (plus, of
course, the better short-field capability of a conventional configuration)
seems to prevent excessive heating.  There HAVE been cases of gear pants
getting too warm, though... (hot pants?).

Since the Velocity and Cozy are second-generation fiberglass designs, I
suspect the designers were aware of this potential and have worked things
to reduce susceptibility.  It must be possible... after all, there have
been certified airplanes with fiberglass gear legs....

                                          Ron Wanttaja
					  prang@ssc-bee
					  ...rutgers!uw-beaver!ssc-bee!prang
                                          prang@ssc-bee.boeing.com

Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: wd@cs.tu-berlin.de (Wolfgang Diestelkamp)
Subject: Re: Logging PIC (sorry ... sigh )
Organization: Technical University of Berlin, Germany
	<1992Sep25.175703.8828@eng.umd.edu>
	<1992Sep28.212236.8426@microsoft.com>
	<WD.92Sep29100518@sam.cs.tu-berlin.de>
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 10:59:22 GMT


And sorry for posting this article twice; my news system told me that
it wasn't posted, neither the first nor the second time, and I gave up.
But some how it slipped through anyway ...
-- 
Wolfgang Diestelkamp
wd@cs.tu-berlin.de
wolfgang@first.gmd.de
From: barney@sol.usc.edu (Barney Lum)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: gear-down check
Date: 28 Sep 1992 19:05:54 -0700
Organization: USC University Computing Services, Los Angeles
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.usc.edu
Summary: GUMPS -> GMPFS
Keywords: gear-down, FAA

[ "check gear down" by ATC... ]

Interestingly, (some) controllers at El Monte, CA do issue a gear-check 
advisory... at night.  

Going off on a slight tangent: I've found that I don't like "GUMPS" (!).  
The phonetic "G" in it leads me to think "GEAR", not gas.  "Gas" is only 
mentioned in terms like AVGAS and MOGAS, nowhere else (that I know of)  in 
the aviation world.  We FUEL the plane at the FUEL pits, turn on/off the 
FUEL pumps, placard the FUEL gauge as INOPO, and sometimes experience FUEL 
contamination.  Only the non-aviating folk say "gas!"	

I say use "F" to represent FUEL.

"U" for undercarriage.  Who thinks "undercarriage" when putting the wheels 
down?!  It has too many syllables!  Get rid of the "U" and use the G for Gear.

Gear, Mixture, Prop, Fuel (pump/selector valve, etc), and Switches...
Even saying all of the words seems to "flow" better than the old
arrangement.

	GMPFS - pronounced gmpfs.  ;)  (gimphs?)

If order is important, then FGMPS  might sound somewhat obscene :}
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
              >|            
              >|      barney@usc.edu  Barney@USCVM
 -->  -->  --> |   =======    ---    ---    ---    ---    ---   ---    ---  
              >|      Permanent Student Pilot, On the Numbers   
              >|
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: GTE CONTEL DUAT new features
From: denny@alisa.com (Bob Denny)
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 03:25:06 GMT
 <1992Oct3.183619.23260@access.digex.com> <1992Oct4.141032.29216@europa.asd.contel.com>
Organization: Alisa Systems, Inc.

CONTEL has 9600 baud lines, with V.42/V.42bis (which also works at 2400
baud). Last I looked, DTC was still at 2400.
_______________________________________________________________________________
Robert B. Denny                                           voice: (818) 792-9474
Alisa Systems, Inc.                                         fax: (818) 792-4068
Pasadena, CA                         (denny@alisa.com, ..uunet!alisa.com!denny)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: yiannis@ccad.uiowa.edu (Yiannis Papelis)
Subject: Re: gear-down check
Keywords: gear-down, FAA
Organization: CAD-Research, University of Iowa, Iowa City
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 06:04:44 GMT

In some article (PROF D. Rogers (EAS FAC)) writes:
> 
>  [Regarding the tower issuing a 'check gear-down' call along]
>  [with 'clear to land', AOPA's Ms Hipps checked with FAA and: ]
>"I had our Policy Department investigate into the "gear-down"
>ATC check.
>Apparently, it is not done due to ........  guess what....LIABILITY!
>(the caps are hers) It has, however, been done at various ATC
>facilities with mixed results."
> 
> Other stuff deleted
> 
>What does the net think? Is the gear-down check a good idea?

My initial thought was 'of course its a good idea' but then
I start having doubts.  On one hand it costs ATC nothing and can 
really save the day.  On the other hand, there is always the 
possibility that i) pilots learn to depend on it and are more
likely to forget when at an uncontrolled field, ii) it might
become just another item that is often ignored.  I don't know
about other people but I often catch myself filtering out information
I don't want to hear, like when the tower repeats winds after
the handoff from approach.  A repetitive 'check gear-down' may
turn into a null statement.

I think the best idea would be to have the controller visually check 
for the gear on planes on short final and issue a warning only if
the gear is not down.  Actually, several controllers I have talked
to said they already do that, (of course I wouldn't depend on it but ...)
That way people don't get used to hearing it, and each time
a warning is issued it would be a close call, close enough to shake
up the pilot but without any physical damage.
-- 
Yiannis E. Papelis,            - Electrical & Computer Engineering, U of Iowa
Center of Computer Aided Design- Home of the Iowa Driving Simulator & future
e-mail: yiannis@ccad.uiowa.edu - home of the National Advanced Driving Simulator
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: vancleef@netcom.com (Henry van Cleef)
Subject: Re: Rule Number One
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 08:43:55 GMT
Organization: Netcom--posted from Andover, Mass.
Distribution: usa

>|> (Amy Lindsay) writes:
>|> [...]
>|> >	      NEVER FLY WHEN YOU'RE TIRED OR SHORT TEMPERED.
>|> >
>|> >No matter how nice the day is or how much you REALLY want to.  No matter if
>|> >there's something you REALLY have to do, or some place you REALLY have to
>|> >go.  Just say no.  Don't do it.  Trust me in this...
>
>
Back in my early hours of wrestling with a beastly Cessna 140, I was
given the acronym for the runup pad drill---CIGAR---Controls,
instruments, gas, attitude, and runup.  One thing that was laid on me
was that "attitude" did not just mean setting trim tabs, but meant also
to reflect on my own attitude---that when this little check was
complete, I would go flying if everything passed, and if my personal
attitude didn't pass, maybe being here wishing I was there was an idea
worth considering.  
-- 
Hank van Cleef  vancleef@netcom.com vancleef@tmn.com  Andover, Mass.
Unix systems consultant---kernel, device drivers, networking, X11
SysV, BSD, Sun, Ultrix, AIX, SCO. Porting a specialty. 
	     The Union Institute  History of Science
From: jac@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (John Clear)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Solo Rites
Date: 30 Sep 92 03:43:44 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center

In article <1992Sep30.020735.22465@netcom.com> hchong@netcom.com (Hoi Chong) writes:
>From article <1992Sep29.104436.10024@walter.cray.com>, by osh@cray.com (O'Shaughnessy John):
>> [And what if the instructor - student pairing is such that a ripped shirt
>>  would be cause for a sexual harassment suit...]
>
>Yeah, I wonder.  I assume this kind of thing is a *must* for the
>airforce guys.  So, people, what happen to female candidates? 

	When I was at New York Wing CAP Solo Flight School, there was a female 
cadet who all week never wore a t-shirt under her flight suit (it was July and
HOT!).  When the day came for us all to solo, someone politely informed her of 
the tradition and that it might be a good idea to wear a t-shirt.  There was no
problem with harassment, just a t-shirt missing a large chunk of the back of it.

BTW: We also got the water treatment... in the form of five gallon fire 
extinguishers (water) borrowed from CFR.

John
-- 
John A Clear -- jac@mentor.cc.purdue.edu, clearja@sage.cc.purdue.edu
PP-ASEL   C/LTC, CAP-NYW                                 
"When you think how well basic appliances work, it is hard to believe 
anyone ever gets on an airplane" -- Calvin and Hobbes
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: Cessna@kn5f.jsc.nasa.gov (Mark T. Evert)
Subject: Re: Confederate Air Show dates????
Organization: Loral Space Information Systems
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 15:50:14 GMT

In article <1992Sep29.232521.4504@leland.Stanford.EDU> 
stankus@d31mf2.Stanford.EDU (John J. Stankus) writes:
> Does anyone know the dates for the Confederate Air Force show in Houston?

Better get here quick.  It's this weekend!

Mark T. Evert
Friendswood, TX

My opinions are strictly my own.
From: peterson@specxn.enet.dec.com (Harlo Peterson)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Stay off the rudder!
Date: 5 Oct 92 17:00:08 GMT
Article-I.D.: nntpd2.1992Oct5.161019.23694
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation, Colorado Springs


In article <3400269@hpcc01.corp.hp.com>, dunn@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Steve Dunn)
 writes...
>My s.o. and I had a mountain check-out recently, and the CFII showed us
>how much more effective it is to bring the wings level by use of rudder
>input than aileron wrenching.  I'm not sure this applies in extreme cases,
>but it does work in light to moderate stuff.
> 
>It was explained this way:  assume L wing goes down; pilot applies right wing
>down control (this increases the lift on the left wing and increases the drag
>on it at the same time).  If you don't compensate with rudder, the left wing
>falls further behind,  slows down, looses more lift, drops further.  See where
>this is going?  If, instead, you apply right rudder, the left wing speeds up
>immediately which increases lift and starts it back up towards the wings-level
>attitude.
> 
>Since then I've been trying to fly with better rudder control in all weather.
>It seems to work.

Another way to look at what's happening is that turbulance is caused by wind
gusts that may hit the plane from any direction.  The vertical component of
the gust hits the bottom of the plane and will act to move the tail up or
down.  This is countered with elevator control.  The horizontal
component will move the tail sideways.  This is countered with rudder.
A gust will not directly cause a rolling movement. The roll that is observed
is caused by the yaw causing one wing to fly faster than the other.  Using
aileron to counter the gust is less effective than using rudder as rudder
is countering the direct cause of both the yaw and the roll.  Using aileron
counters the roll and only indirectly the yaw with a delay in action even
then.

--
Harlo Peterson                       Digital Equipment Corporation
      harlo.peterson@cxn.mts.dec.com 1110 Chapel Hills Drive (CXN2/35)
      719-260-3003                   Colorado Springs, CO 80920-3995
From: hale@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Bill Hale)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 00:07:10 GMT
Subject: Re: SJC -> Wichita, KS in 172, advice?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.aviation


This time of year, various weather difficulties could certainly arise.

By far the most important factor is to allow plenty of time to make the
trip.  In an airplane of this class it is an adventure.  Be careful to
not over constrain the problem by needing to be somewhere-or else-Monday
morning!

+Regards, Bill Hale;  hale@hpfclm.FC.HP.COM   [hplabs|hpfcla]!hpfclm!hale
+Thru ether-K0QA; In ether-BE33 N33HP CFIAIME A&P; Twisted pair 1-303-229-3037
+Snail: c/o HP UTD MS73 3404 E Harmony, Ft Collins, CO 80525 Incoming:40 44.2N
+105 33.1W; Pictures 303-299-6441
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: cep@taligent.com (Christophe Pettus)
Subject: Re: Stay off the rudder!
Organization: Taligent, a little subsidiary of two really big companies.
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 22:13:03 GMT

In article <92266.215322VPN1@psuvm.psu.edu> <VPN1@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>I just read a new idea (to me), passed along by
>[a netter who probably doesn't want his name associated
>with this]:  If you get into strong turbulence,
>IFR, stay off the rudder and you won't get into a spin.

Rudder doesn't cause an airplane to spin.  A yaw and a stall does.  You
can have more than enough yaw for a spin with zero rudder input in a
great many aircraft.

Keeping the aircraft's attitude under control is FAR more important
than rudder input in strong turbulence.
--
-- Christophe

"Black is the color of non-conformity.  Everyone has to have it."
	T-shirt company executive
From: ed@wente.llnl.gov (Ed Suranyi)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Any comments about the El Al crash?
Date: 5 Oct 92 20:12:38 GMT
Organization: UC Davis Dept of Applied Science at LLNL

I guess it's a little early to say anything significant, but I'm still
a little surprised that no one has yet mentioned the El Al crash
in Amsterdam.

The facts, as I understand them, are these:

An El Al 747 freighter was four on board (crew of three plus one 
passenger) took off from Amsterdam's Schiphol airport en route to
Tel Aviv on a regularly scheduled route.  Ten minutes after takeoff
the pilot reported that engines three and four were both on fire, and
he was declaring an emergency.  He turned back towards the airport,
starting dumping fuel into a lake, but crashed in a suburb of the city.

The site of the crash was extremely unfortunate.  The plane apparently
scored a direct hit on a large apartment building right around dinnertime.
A section of the building six apartments across by nine stories high was
completely destroyed -- levelled, in fact.  Authorities believe it highly
probable that everybody in that section of the building -- about 200
people -- was killed.  So far, however, only about 40 bodies have been
recovered.  There certainly seems little chance that any of the four on
board the plane could have survived.

First reports indicated that there was a mid-air explosion, leading
to speculation that this might have been a terrorist attack.  But later,
most authorities discounted this possibility.  For one thing, El Al's
famous stringent security measures are followed just as diligently on
their cargo flights as on their passenger flights.  Also, it doesn't
make much sense for a terrorist group to bomb a cargo flight, when for
the same effort they could bomb a passenger flight and get much more
attention.

The Prime Minister of Israel sent a telegram of condolence to the 
government of the Netherlands, as did several other members of the Israeli
government.

Ed
ed@wente.llnl.gov
From: tpickett@auspex.com (Tom Pickett)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: To members of West Valley Flying Club
Date: 29 Sep 92 18:43:30 GMT
Reply-To: tpickett@auspex.com (Tom Pickett)
Organization: Auspex Systems, Inc.  Engineering

In article <1992Sep29.145414.4851@eecs.nwu.edu>, phil@eecs.nwu.edu (William 
LeFebvre) writes:
> West Valley is based at Palo Alto, right?  (I hope I got the name of
> the club right).  If any members of that club know a club CFI with
> the first name "Marq" (with a Q), tell him I said "hello".  I don't
> remember his last name, but I know he works as a pilot flying Metros
> for a west-coast commuter airline.  I met him on a United flight to
> Baltimore recently.  It's a small world....
> 
> 		William LeFebvre
> 		Computing Facilities Manager and Analyst
> 		Department of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science
> 		Northwestern University
> 		<phil@eecs.nwu.edu>

I will transmit your message to someone at WVFC and see if they can
give him the message...

Tom Pickett
Board of Directors
West Valley Flying Club

Tom Pickett 
tpickett@auspex.com
SHO  GOZE
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: calvin@boi.hp.com (Calvin K McDonald)
Subject: Re: Solo Rites
Organization: Hewlett-Packard - Boise, Idaho
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 16:20:10 GMT

Ed Dougherty (edd@gvlf4-a.gvl.unisys.com) wrote:
: In article <1992Sep28.203300.44@front.se> per@front.se writes:
: >In article <1992Sep28.033758.8718@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca>,
: >q1hl@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca (Chris Rasley)
: >writes about various first-solo rites of passage.
: >
: >Although these rites of passage vary a lot, there seems to be many
: 
: 
: Gee, I feel left out, when I soloed, nothing at all happened, my instructor
: said pretty good, do another one and that was it, no ceremony, nothing!
: 
: Am I the only one let out; (this was 1970).
: 
: 
: Ed Doc
: 

I soloed 6 weeks ago and was also left out.  My instructor mentioned 
something about cutting up my shirt but I didn't know what he meant at
the time.  I just figured out what he was talking about reading notes this
last week.  

Anyway, I don't feel too bad - I had on one of my favorite shirts!

 ................................... | .................................... 
:                        \__________( )__________/                         :
: Calvin K. McDonald              o'   `o      HP Network Printer Division :
: Hardware Design Engineer                     Boise, Idaho                :
: Email: calvin@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com             Phone:  (208) 323-4678      :
 .......................................................................... 
Newsgroups: rec.aviation