Newsgroups: alt.activism
Subject: Re: Rich Richer, Poor Poorer
From: demon@desire.wright.edu (Stupendous Man)
Date: 13 Sep 92 01:44:11 EST
Organization: Demonic Possesions, Inc.
Summary: yes, but who are the rich and who are the poor?

In article <1992Sep11.234310.10852@sco.COM>, hiramc@sco.COM (Hiram Clawson) writes:
> 
> 
> It is said that the rich grow richer, and the poor become poorer.
> How true that was during the capitalist orgy of the 1980's.  Our

	Not true at all.  85% of the poorest quintile moved up during the
period from 1978 to 1987.

> Table from page 17, "The Politics of Rich and Poor" by Kevin Phillips, 1990
> 
> Source: "Challenge to Leadership", Urban Institute, data from
> 	the Congressional Budget Office
> 
> 		Income Gains and Losses
> 			1977-88
> 
> Changes in Average Family Income
> (1987)
> 
> 		Average Family		Percentage	Change in Average
> Income		Income			Change		Family Income
> Decile	1977	    1988	1977-88		1977-88
> 
> First		$  4,113 $  3,504	-14.8 %		$   -609
> Second	$  8,334 $  7,669	- 8.0 %		$   -665
> Third		$ 13,140 $ 13,327	- 6.2 %		$   -813
> Fourth	$ 18,436 $ 17,220	- 6.6 %		$ -1,216
> Fifth		$ 23,896 $ 22,389	- 6.3 %		$ -1,507
> Sixth		$ 29,824 $ 28,205	- 5.4 %		$ -1,619
> Seventh	$ 36,405 $ 34,828	- 4.3 %		$ -1,577
> Eight		$ 44,305 $ 43,507	- 1.8 %		$   -798
> Ninth		$ 55,487 $ 56,064	+ 1.0 %		$   +577
> Tenth		$102,722 $119,635	+16.5 %		$+16,913
> 
> Top 5 %	$134,543 $166,016	+23.4 %		$+31,473
> Top 1 %	$270,053 $404,566	+49.8 %	       $+134,513
> 
> All Families	$ 33,527 $ 34,274	+ 2.2 %		$   +747
> 

	All this demonstrates is that of the people who *now* populate those
deciles (and we have no way of knowing what the source is for that), the actual
measure of their income has changed.

	Whoop-de-do.

	What you really want to know is of the people that *were* poor in 1978,
how many of them got richer?  And for 1987, the answer is over 85%.

Table:

The Wall Street Journal, Tuesday, June 2, 1992, Page A2.

Low-Income Mobility Was High in 1980s:
Treasury Study Also Finds Those at Top Tended to Stay There
By David Wessel, Staff Reporter of the Wall Street Journal


  Substantial numbers of low-income Americans moved up the income ladder
in the 1980s, while those who started the decade at the very top tended
to remain there, a new study by Treasury Department economists shows.
  The study, based on income tax data that aren't publicly available,
found that two-third of taxpayers who were in the bottom fifth of all
taxpayers in 1979 had moved up to somewhere in the top 60% of the income
distribution by 1988.  Only 14% were still at the bottom in 1988...
		       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^	

  The Treasury study differs from some others in that it tracks the same
taxpayers from 1979 through 1988.  Because the Treasury has no information
about people with so little income that they don't file income tax returns,
however, the report sheds little light on the fate of the very poorest
Americans....
  The new study examines 14,351 taxpayers who filed returns in every year
from 1979 to 1988 and compares their before-tax income at several points
in the decade...
  To make the top 1% in the Treasury study, a taxpayer had to have income
above $255,351 in 1988 (measured in 1989 dollars).  To make the top 5%,
a taxpayer had to have income above $96,117.
  Most of the taxpayers -- about 65% -- who were among the top fifth of
taxpayers in 1979 managed to remain there throughout the decade, the study
found.  To make that category, a taxpayer had to have income of more than
$73,705.
  In contrast, the study picked up substantial movement -- most of it
upward -- among taxpayers with lower incomes.  Of those taxpayers who
were in the bottom fifth in 1979, 14.4% had climbed all the way to the
richest fifth by 1988, while 14.2% remained at the bottom.
  And among those taxpayers in the very middle of the income distribution,
47.3% moved up between 1979 and 1988 while 19.7% moved down.  The
remainder were in the same category a decade later.  The middle quintile
in 1988 were those taxpayers with incomes between $37,657 and $54,978...
  Because the study looked only aat those taxpayers who filed returns in
all 10 years, it excludes the very young and the very old.  It also
excludes most income that isn't taxable, such as Social Security benefits
received by many Americans.


Table: Up and Down: Income-Group Mobility 1979-1988
Source: Treasury Department

                               Status  in 1988
                  Top 1%  Next 19%  Next 20%  Middle 20%  Next 20%  Bottom 20%
Status in 1979
----------------
Top 1%             47.3%   38.6%      7.7%      3.8%        0.4%      2.2%
Top 2%-20%          5.3    59.4      20.3       9.4         4.4       1.1
Next Richest 20%    0.6    34.8      37.5      14.8         9.3       3.1
Middle 20%          0.4    14.6      32.3      33.0        14.0       5.7
Next Poorest 20%    0.3    10.8      19.5      29.6        29.0      10.9
Poorest 20%         0.3    14.4      25.3      25.0        20.7      14.2


	For those of you who are confused about the table, it is showing where
each quintile's population ended up in 1988.  Thus of the people in the poorest
quintile in 1979, 14.2% were still there in 1988, 20.7% have moved up one
quintile, etc.

Brett                                                      
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