From: jlinder@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Jeffrey S Linder)
Subject: Right to Discriminate
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 20:36:54 GMT


From: ckirby@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov (Charles E. Kirby)
Subject: The Right to Discriminate? (was Re: Offended ...)

JSL:jlinder@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu  writes:
CEK:ckirby@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov (Charles E. Kirby)


JSL:The majority of people in this country find male homo-
    sexuality  repulsive.

CEK:All the more reason for protection from discrimination

JSL:If I own a business and choose not to hire someone 
    because they have sex with animals then I am discrimi-
    nating against them for something they do.  If I choose 
    not to hire them because they wear checks with plaids it 
    is because it is something they do.  It is my business, 
    my capital at risk, my life (basically) and my liveli-
    hood that is on the line.

CEK:And if you choose not to hire  someone because they are 
    black, or a woman, or over 50, or handicapped, then you 
    are discriminating.  Your argument is more fundamental 
    than whether or not you should be able to discriminate 
    against gay and lesbian people, it is whether or not you 
    should be able to discriminate in general.  I don't know 
    how anti-discrimination laws distinguish what size or 
    types of business must conform, but there is some meth-
    odology.  This is  true for the recent attempts to ban 
    gay discrimination (religious organizations and compa-
    nies smaller than a certain size were to be exempt).

If I have a business with one employee then anyone can claim 
discrimination because I did not hire them.  If they are a 
member of a "protected group" they could claim that it was 
their minority status that caused me not to hire them.  I 
think it would be very hard to prove "illegal" discrimina-
tion in this case.  If I have two employees I think the same 
case applies.  The question then becomes: How many employees 
must I have before you can prove discrimination?  If you 
assign a number to that minimum, what does that number mean?  
We could get into a long discussion about the how my busi-
ness should reflect the "cultural diversity" of the nation 
or city or whatever.  The bottom line is that you begin to 
play the numbers game.  There are 90% of type X people and 
10% type Y people in the country.  Should my work force 
represent this number?  What if not enough applicants from 
group Y meet the qualifications necessary to work for me?  
Should I still have to hire them to reflect the population 
distribution?  Why aren't minority owned companies forced to 
hire employees based on population distribution? 


JSL:Why should the government be able tell me how to run my 
    business.  

CEK:Because, as you pointed out, far too many people hold 
    the same bigotted views that you do.  As an individual 
    you are free to be as bigotted as you want.  When busi-
    nesses, on the other hand, start to deny individuals 
    their civil rights, the government can and should step 
    in.

(You don't know what my views are, I was speaking hypotheti-

cally.  I believe that you should sink or swim on your own 
abilities, not because of how you choose to classify your-
self).

At what point does a business violate someone's civil rights 
when they don't hire them.  What about my rights to "life 
liberty, and the pursuit of happiness?"  Does every person 
that doesn't get a job have their civil right's violated?  
Or do members of a minority enjoy a civil right that other 
people don't?  Who decides what classifications determine a 
minority?  Is it the "members" of that minority?  If that is 
the case, I claim myself to be a member of a minority of
one.

Jeff.
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