HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: eab@msc.edu (Edward Bertsch)
Subject: Happy holidays rec.org.mensa
Organization: Minnesota Supercomputer Center, Minneapolis, MN
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 20:32:07 GMT


Enjoy it while it lasts.  Hopefully none of us will receive lumps of
coal in our Christmas stockings...



--

Edward A. Bertsch (eab@msc.edu)   Minnesota Supercomputer Center, Inc.
Operations/User Services          1200 Washington Avenue South
(612) 626-1888 work               Minneapolis, Minnesota  55415
(612) 645-0168 voice mail         [DISCLAIMER: MY OPINIONS; NOT MSCI'S]
From: Geoff@equinox.gen.nz (Geoff Mccaughan)
Subject: Re: Favorite Beverages
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: 27 Dec 92 18:08:28 +1200
Organization: Equinox Networks

Barkers Strawberry wine, served chilled.

[but you have to come to N.Z. to get it 8-)].

--
Geoff, Sysop Equinox (equinox.gen.nz) +64 (3) 3854406 [4 Lines]
                               Voice: +64 (3) 3852101
        "Hi. You have just entered the fourth dimension. Small isn't it?"
From: skh4161@mvs.draper.com (Kjeld Hvatum)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: IQ Test Creation Question
Date: 21 Dec 92 15:20:00 GMT
Organization: Draper Laboratory


>From: larry wink <bbs-phaedrus%jwt.uucp@surname.draper.com>
>Message-ID: <DVoJuB1w164w@jwt.UUCP>
>
>Once full maturity is reached, long term study may well improve on the scores
>achieved on tests, but will not, IMHO, result in increased intelligence.

Well, OK, the basic problem here is we don't have any foundation from
which to continue a debate, since you've not only not defined
"intelligence", you've also implied it can't be directly measured by a
test.  If "intelligence" means inborn potential for neural cognitive
efficiency, I can't argue with you - you've made your statement true by
definition.
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Subject: Re: Atheism and Intelligence
Organization: AT&T
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 16:17:17 GMT

In article <Bzy77z.B6r@world.std.com> kkirksey@world.std.com (Ken B Kirksey) writes:
>In article <1992Dec26.092545.16601@eng.umd.edu> tedwards@eng.umd.edu (Thomas Grant Edwards) writes:
>>In article <o7H2VB2w165w@iowegia.uucp> quest@iowegia.uucp (Steve J. Quest) writes:
>>>        I stand on my own in this world, but do require the 
>>>support of other fellow humans- not deities.  I am an atheist, and 
>>>I am in a great minority.
>>
>>I'd like to add that there is nothing wrong with developing 
>>a sense of spirituality while remaining an atheist.  I enjoy
>>Wiccan circles, catholic masses, technopagan rituals, etc.
>>I know the spirituality I experience is metaphorical and
>>not part of the reality which science reveals.
[....]
>>I realize now that like the illusion of love, the illusion of
>>spirituality is a key part of our humanity, and I revel in it,
>>but continue to keep touch with reality.
>
>If by "reality" you mean the world as revealed by our senses and studied
>by science you might want to go back and read Plato and Spinoza.

You might want to post explicitly what you appear to find
contradictory in his post and how you interpret their writings.

GMS
From: skh4161@mvs.draper.com (Kjeld Hvatum)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Four Sigma?
Date: 3 Jan 93 13:26:00 GMT
Organization: Draper Laboratory


>From: Michael Zimmers <mzimmers@netcom.com>
>Message-ID: <1992Dec25.015921.29690@netcom.com>
>
>Since other associations are mentioned in this newsgroup, I feel OK in
>asking:
>
>        Does anyone know how to obtain the test materials for the
>        Four Sigma Society?  I'm told they're centered in Berkeley,
>        but I couldn't find a phone number for them.  Thanks in
>        advance...

The most commonly used test for this society was probably the LAIT
(Langdon Adult Intelligence Test).  Try the address I posted recently
for Polymath Systems.

As far as I know, 4 Sigma is defunct.  I don't think there's been a
journal in years.  The only extant society with the same entrance
requirements is the Prometheus Society.
From: ken@nate.UUCP (Ken Gacioch)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: IQ Test?
Date: 30 Dec 92 21:15:40 GMT
Reply-To: nate!ken@cs.rit.edu
Organization: HealthChex, Inc.

In article <1992Dec30.133342.1273@altair.selu.edu> bhmd1464@altair.selu.edu writes:
>  According to my memory, the formula for computing IQ was something
>like   mental age * 10 / physical age.  How is IQ really computed
>or determined?  Can it be done accurately for someone my age (23)?


Binet's "Intelligence Quotient" was computed as
                mentalAge/physicalAge * 100.

The purpose of the scale was for convenient pigeonholing of school children,
but it was later (largely invalidly, IMO) used as an "intelligence" scale
for anyone.

For purposes of qualification for Mensa membership, it is moot whether
the test you use is purported to report your "IQ" or not.  All that is
considered is where your score (on whatever test you took) falls on the
curve of all scores for everyone who took the test while it was being
normed, either prior to publication, or during a later "re-norming".
Ideally, this curve closely matches a normal distribution (bell-shaped
curve).  A score of 100 on the Stanford-Binet (generally considered an
"IQ" test) is the mean.  

Ken Gacioch
Proctor Coordinator 
Rochester Area Mensa
nate!ken@cs.rit.edu
From: edp@bsdbld.zk3.dec.com (Eric Postpischil)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Re: Howard Stern
Date: 29 Dec 92 21:08:18 GMT
Reply-To: edp@bsdbld.zk3.dec.com (Eric Postpischil)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation

In article <01GSW3HOEK82ADDCB5@ccfvx3.draper.com>,
skh4161@mvs.draper.com (Kjeld Hvatum) writes:

>>The electromagnetic spectrum in my region of the country is nowhere near
>>full; there's room for plenty more broadcasters.                       a
>
>In general, the traditional broadcast spectrum is full.  It may be
>"fuller" in your part of the country than you think.
. . .
>There are a number of other reasons for frequencies to be controlled
>even when the spectrum appears to be clear to the casual observer,
>including reasons involving technical and national interests.

I am familiar with the television stations from Rhode Island to Maine;
the spectrum is not full.  Further, there have been several stations at
various frequencies that have gone off the air due to commercial
reasons, not technical or national interest.  Therefore, those
frequencies are available for use -- the spectrum is not full; there is
no excuse for government censorship.


                                -- edp (Eric Postpischil)
                                "Always mount a scratch monkey."
                                edp@rusure.enet.dec.com
Xref: sparky rec.org.mensa:8956 soc.culture.jewish:24105 alt.atheism:24413 alt.slack:3574
From: waldo@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (Todd J. Dicker)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,alt.slack
Subject: Re: Re^2: Atheism and Intelligence
Date: 28 Dec 92 22:23:49 GMT
Organization: Cybernet BBS, Boca Raton, Florida

mitch@novavax.UUCP (Mitch Silverman) writes:

[Stuff Deleted]
>  
> As I said above, I'm an atheistic Jewish SubGenius minister.  I
> find I still enjoy going to synagogue (even at Conservative
> synagogues, where the traditional Jewish anthropomorphic deity is
> very much included in the ritual.  Oddly enough, I find I prefer
> the Conservative liturgy to the Reform, though being a
> Reconstructionist who was nine or ten before my family left the
> Conservative synagogue we used to attend, perhaps this is not so
> surprising--but I digress) though I have no illusions about my
> prayers influencing any sort of deity.

I hope you'll forgive me if I suggest that your understanding of Judaism 
seems to me to be rather limited.  You seem to have at least taken the 
first step of becomming familiar with some of the rituals, but we are far 
from a tribal cult that actually expects our prayers to influence a 
deity.But far beyond this, very little in the way of liturgy, custom, law 
and tradition in Judaism can or should be taken at face value.  This is 
apparantly what you seem to have done, and I find it a shame.  I see many 
people who turn away from Judaism because they find the story of Noah and 
the great flood or Sodom and Gemorrah too hard to believe, or they find 
inconsistencies in the binding of Isaac.  Some study, some insight, and a 
good teacher could help you to realize that there are social and 
psychological~r meanings beyond the literal to these stories, and there 
is room for advanced understanding of these stories.  There are benefits 
to anthropomorphasizing God, even thought we don't see "Him" as a
white bearded old man sitting on a throne.

> I guess I'll cross-post this missive to soc.culture.jewish (where
> I expect to betold I'm not a Jew) alt.atheism, and alt.slack,
> just to see what happens.  Followups to alt.tasteless, perhaps? 8-)

Well, I'm not about to cast stones, but i would like to comment on the 
need for cross posting.  I don't understand this incessant cross-posting 
to multiple groups.  If I wanted to read alt.sex.gerbils, I would sign 
up.
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: roberts@gaul.csd.uwo.ca (Eric Roberts)
Subject: mega society
Organization: Computer Science Dept., Univ. of Western Ontario, London, Canada
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 05:59:45 GMT

Does anyone here know what test is used by the Mega Society? Does anyone
have a sample test, or know where I could get one?

Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Subject: Re: Atheism and Intelligence
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 22:45:51 GMT

In article <heflin.725645266@cherokee30> heflin@rtsg.mot.com (Suzanne Stratton Heflin) writes:
>quest@iowegia.uucp (Steve J. Quest) writes:
>
>>pamela@sscux1.ssc.gov (pamela gurd) writes:
>
>>> 	It seems to me that the strongest proof of the non-existence
>>> of God is the lack of obvious moral difference between religious
>>> people and others.  Some of the most moral and compassionate people
>>> I know are atheists.
>>> 
>
>What does the behaviour of "religious people" and non-religious have to
>do with whether God exists or not?

It seems to me that religion should have a positive effect rather than a
negative effect if its tenets are true, or for that matter, practical.
I'd imagine that's what the original poster was thinking of.  But
that's only my opinion, of course.
>
>>Pam,
>
>>        One of the reasons why `god heads' tend to show no morals 
>>or compassion is simply because they can do no wrong and suffer no 
>>guilt.  You see, it is my understanding that these people will do 
>>wrong, then pray for forgivness- which since god is something 
>>created in the mind, they get forgiven (they get what ever they 
>>want).
>
>I am not an atheist, yet I feel great compassion for your pain that you
>must have felt in response to your "ex-soulmate's" actions.  I also
>feel compassion that perhaps you are using her as your only example
>of a "god head."  (That's a new one!)  How many believers must one know
>to make a statement that " 'god heads' tend to show NO MORALS OR COM-
>PASSION" (emphasis mine)?  This is not a statement of a particularly
>compassionate or non-judgemental person; it is more a statement of
>a hurting person.

Seriously, though, you're right.  That's a generalization, obviously.
>
>I am not sure what you mean by 'god head', so I will use Christian.  By
>this term, I mean it in a fundamental sense, one who follows Jesus and
>truly calls him Lord, and Saviour.  You say that it is your understanding
>that "these people will do wrong, then pray for forgiveness."  Well,
>God looks to the heart; praying for forgiveness is meaningless if one is
>not truly sorry.  Surely you realize that many people play at religion;

Certainly.  But keep in mind that they may very well be truly sorry.
Let's not make the mistake that there are "sane, rational people who
know themselves completely" and "bad people".  We're all somewhere
in between.

GMS
From: lumensa@lub001.lamar.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: IQ Test?
Date: 2 Jan 93 21:34:27 GMT
Organization: Lamar University - Beaumont

In article <1993Jan3.155418.29911@cronkite.ocis.temple.edu>, jesse@picasso.ocis.temple.edu (Jesse Davis) writes:
> : >>>There are many IQ tests designed for adults.  However, for most people,
> : >>>a reasonable estimate can be made from SAT or GRE scores.
>      
> Hmm...are SAT's sufficient for Mensa membership? I've yet to apply for
> membership due in part to lack of $ to take a more standard IQ test.

SAT's will do, however you must pay an "evaluation fee" to have the
original document with the scores evaluated.  The current fee according
to the latest brochure, $20.  I didn't know this and paid a 
psychologist $80 to take the Weschler.  If you'd like a brochure, you
can call 1-800-MENSA or write to the address in the FAQ.  Don't know why
the FAQ doesn't have an ASCII version of the little form in the new
brochures.  

Qualifying SAT scores prior to 9/77 are 1300; after that month 1250 gets
you in.  Good luck.

Dale


------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dale Parish - Orange, Texas            | My opinions are mine and free 
Lamar's Token Perpetual Student        | and may be used by anyone.  My
(409)745-(vox)3899;(rec)1581;dat(2507) | time is for sale.
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: quest@iowegia.uucp (Steve J. Quest)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Atheism and Intelligence
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 92 12:06:21 CST
Distribution: world
Organization: Iowegia Public Access Usenet/UUCP, Clive IA USA.

crawford@boole.mitre.org (Randy Crawford) writes:

> What are the opinions on the existence of Jesus Christ?  As I see it we
> may hold one of 4 positions:
> 
> 1)  You are certain He did not exist.  (atheism)
> 2)  You think He did not exist.        (agnosticism)
> 3)  You think He did exist.            (agnosticism)
> 4)  You are certain He did exist.      (theism)

Randy,

        I am an atheist and I believe Jesus did exist.  I also 
believe that he was a political figure- not a child of a god.  
Here we have a man who was followed by people and worshiped by 
many.  They believed in his teachings.  I am followed by many, 
mostly younger people (high school age) who believe in me and 
follow my teachings (in science).  I call them Quest Wanna-be's.

        This is the factor that allows me to understand the man, 
known historically as Jesus Christ.  In many ways, my life has 
paralleled, but I am not a child of god.  I combat society 
intellectually (as did Jesus) toward the goal of moral and social 
prosperity.  I use science, he used religion- the goals were the 
same.

        Jesus was just a man, he died and finally I feel he 
believed himself to be just a man.  Power can go to ones head and 
when followers tell you that you are `super human' you tend to 
believe it yourself (my problem as well).  

        The stories about super human powers are all fanciful 
tales which creative, not intellectual people told.  My wanna-be 
followers are not intellectual, but creative, therefore they say 
things about me which are often blown to super-human proportions.  
I can therefore understand how it happened with Jesus.

        Check out the library- how many factual verses fictional 
books are there?  My opinion holds that the bible is about 10 
percent fact, "jazzed up" with fiction to make their god represent 
more power than the other gods of the time.  A bit of the old 
childhood "my Dad can beat up your Dad" scenerio.  Fiction is 
important and prolific in our society.  It is no wonder why the 
bible is filled with it.................sq

Xref: sparky rec.org.mensa:9031 soc.culture.jewish:24406 alt.atheism:24745
From: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Prayer (was Re: Re^6: Atheism and Intelligence)
Date: 2 Jan 93 01:19:40 GMT
Organization: Johns Hopkins University CS Dept.

In article <5skPwB1w165w@cybernet.cse.fau.edu> waldo@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (Todd J. Dicker) writes:
>> I can't help but feel that such explanations are added after the fact, and th
>> anything, even things opposite to what we actually do, could be explained awa
>> just as easily.
>Not even close, and your suggestion that the body of literature on 
>tefillah, which dates back to the formation of the liturgy and contains 
>commentary by some of those who composed the prayer service and those who 
>altered it from time to time is a half-hearted, after-the-fact 
>explanation is ridiculous and ignorant of the complexity and thoroughness 
>of said literature.
>You're way off the mark, bud.

An explanation can have been invented hundreds of years ago, and still have
been after-the-fact.
--
"On the first day after Christmas my truelove served to me...  Leftover Turkey!
On the second day after Christmas my truelove served to me...  Turkey Casserole
    that she made from Leftover Turkey.
[days 3-4 deleted] ...  Flaming Turkey Wings! ...
   -- Pizza Hut commercial (and M*tlu/A*gic bait)

Ken Arromdee (arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu, arromdee@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: mzimmers@netcom.com (Michael Zimmers)
Subject: Four Sigma?
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1992 01:59:21 GMT


Since other associations are mentioned in this newsgroup, I feel OK in
asking:

	Does anyone know how to obtain the test materials for the
	Four Sigma Society?  I'm told they're centered in Berkeley,
	but I couldn't find a phone number for them.  Thanks in 
	advance...

mpz
-- 
Michael Zimmers                                    |  Home:  408 996 1984
SoftHelp                                           |  Work:  408 996 1965
Software Solutions for Open Systems                |  Data:  408 996 1974
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,alt.slack
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Subject: Re: Re^2: Atheism and Intelligence
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 00:19:30 GMT

In article <e3JiwB2w165w@cybernet.cse.fau.edu> waldo@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (Todd J. Dicker) writes:
>mitch@novavax.UUCP (Mitch Silverman) writes:
>
>[Stuff Deleted]
>>  
>> As I said above, I'm an atheistic Jewish SubGenius minister.  I
>> find I still enjoy going to synagogue (even at Conservative
>> synagogues, where the traditional Jewish anthropomorphic deity is
>> very much included in the ritual.  Oddly enough, I find I prefer
>> the Conservative liturgy to the Reform, though being a
>> Reconstructionist who was nine or ten before my family left the
>> Conservative synagogue we used to attend, perhaps this is not so
>> surprising--but I digress) though I have no illusions about my
>> prayers influencing any sort of deity.
>
>I hope you'll forgive me if I suggest that your understanding of Judaism 
>seems to me to be rather limited.  You seem to have at least taken the 
>first step of becomming familiar with some of the rituals, but we are far 
>from a tribal cult that actually expects our prayers to influence a 
>deity.But far beyond this, very little in the way of liturgy, custom, law 
>and tradition in Judaism can or should be taken at face value.  This is 
>apparantly what you seem to have done, and I find it a shame.  I see many 

[...]

In all fairness to the original poster, why is it so difficult to believe
that they have become familiar with Judaism and have merely chosen to
believe what they believe, contrary facts not being available?
>
>> I guess I'll cross-post this missive to soc.culture.jewish (where
>> I expect to betold I'm not a Jew) alt.atheism, and alt.slack,
>> just to see what happens.  Followups to alt.tasteless, perhaps? 8-)
>
>Well, I'm not about to cast stones, but i would like to comment on the 
>need for cross posting.  I don't understand this incessant cross-posting 
>to multiple groups.  If I wanted to read alt.sex.gerbils, I would sign 
>up.

1) Because if a topic has relevance to other groups, those groups may
not normally read others, and may be interested in the information, 
and 
2) cross-posting maximizes the probability of responses.

It does cost band-width, but I personally have nothing to complain
about, on balance.

GMS
From: Geoff@equinox.gen.nz (Geoff Mccaughan)
Subject: Re: Atheism and Intelligence
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: 27 Dec 92 18:01:13 +1200
Organization: Equinox Networks

Steve J. Quest (quest@iowegia.uucp) wrote:
>radams@BNR.CA (Rodney Adams) writes:

>        I stand on my own in this world, but do require the 
>support of other fellow humans- not deities.  I am an atheist, and 
>I am in a great minority.

There do exist places in the world where you might not be in such a
minority. For example the incidence of organised religion is much lower in
Europe and Australasia than in America, and is very much in retreat in these
places.

--
Geoff, Sysop Equinox (equinox.gen.nz) +64 (3) 3854406 [4 Lines]
                               Voice: +64 (3) 3852101
        "Hi. You have just entered the fourth dimension. Small isn't it?"
Xref: sparky rec.org.mensa:9008 soc.culture.jewish:24300 alt.atheism:24641 alt.slack:3598
From: quest@iowegia.uucp (Steve J. Quest)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Atheism and Intelligence
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 92 16:32:37 CST
Distribution: world
Organization: Iowegia Public Access Usenet/UUCP, Clive IA USA.

tedwards@eng.umd.edu (Thomas Grant Edwards) writes:

> In article <o7H2VB2w165w@iowegia.uucp> quest@iowegia.uucp (Steve J. Quest) wr
> >        I stand on my own in this world, but do require the 
> >support of other fellow humans- not deities.  I am an atheist, and 
> >I am in a great minority.
> 
> I'd like to add that there is nothing wrong with developing 
> a sense of spirituality while remaining an atheist.  I enjoy
> Wiccan circles, catholic masses, technopagan rituals, etc.
> I know the spirituality I experience is metaphorical and
> not part of the reality which science reveals.
> 
> I used to be a very "violent atheist," being totally 
> unaccepting of any kind of spirituality as "stupid."
> I found that this stance really began to dehumanize me.
> 
> I realize now that like the illusion of love, the illusion of
> spirituality is a key part of our humanity, and I revel in it,
> but continue to keep touch with reality.
> 
> -Thomas
> 


Thomas,

        Your post was important in the sense that it fortifies my 
directive focus- my desire for happiness.  I realize (as you said- 
violent atheist) that [this] behavior drives people away.  Since 
the majority "believe", I must succumb to their ways if I want to 
be [human].  Seeing that I will not be alone in this mission, has 
given me reason to pursue- and I thank you for that.  I want to 
become human, shed this academic euphoria that I call reality and 
be "one of the guys".  Thank you for your enlightenment.........sq

(I am saving your post- I will refer to it often as I reflect...)
Organization: University of Central Florida--Computer Services
Date: Tuesday, 22 Dec 1992 12:53:28 EST
From: <FDMWINK@UCF1VM.BITNET>
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: IQ Test Creation Question

In article <01GSL9H5I9NMADCKNQ@ccfvx3.draper.com>, skh4161@mvs.draper.com (Kjeld
Hvatum) says:
>
>>From: larry wink <bbs-phaedrus%jwt.uucp@surname.draper.com>
>>Message-ID: <DVoJuB1w164w@jwt.UUCP>
>>
>>Once full maturity is reached, long term study may well improve on the scores
>>achieved on tests, but will not, IMHO, result in increased intelligence.
>
>I can't argue with you - you've made your statement true by
>definition.

Well, I just glad that you've _finally_ seen the light. Anything is better than
wasting time talking about Howard Stern.

 --Larry Wink
 Internet: fdmwink@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu or ljw@pro-magic.oau.org
 Bitnet: fdmwink@ucf1vm     Usenet: bbs-phaedrus@jwt.UUCP     GEnie: l.wink
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa