HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener)
Subject: Re: Anyways
Keywords: Lemurs
Reply-To: gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 16:28:26 GMT

In article <1993Jan20.004246.19552@Cadence.COM> vince@gda.cadence.com (Vince Gibboni) writes:
>        
>        For years I've (secretly) interpreted the use of the word "anyways"
>    by anyone over the age of about five as a sure sign that they were 
>    either the victim of severe head injury or - to be kind - just not all 
>    that bright.  (I would have put it in same the class as, say, "p'sghetti")

I too rank "anyways" with "p'sghetti" and "ek cetera" and "nookyuhlur" 
reactors and and "intregal" calculus and the liberry of congress and
of course, "laxadasical." 

>    Recently, however, I seem to hear this word being used quite a bit by 
>    people whose brains' seem to be otherwise damage-free (even by those who
>    generally take some care to use language correctly).

Well, it depends on how you define "using the language correctly."  To a
linguist, someone who by profession objectifies language, the word 
"anyways" is perfectly correct.  To those who view language a little more
subjectively, I have little difficulty calling "anyways" and "nookyuhlur"
and "laxadasical" downright incorrect.

>    I looked up
>    "anyways" in Merriams-Webster's, and was surprised to find it labelled
>    "chiefly dial". Unfortunately, Merriams-Webster's never actually defines 
>    exactly what they mean by "chiefly dial", but they do tell us that "dial"
>    is short for dialect, which is very nearly helpful. So presumably (and
>    I am guessing here) this means that there is some dialect in some 
>    as-yet-undisclosed location somewhere on the planet in which "anyways" is 
>    considered acceptable, but that it consider unacceptable everywhere 
>    else. 

Anyways and the others I listed all appear in many dialects, but generally
they are frowned upon by a lot of educated speakers.

>    This leads me (finally) to two questions: 1) does anyone what this
>    dialect is ? and 2) why have there been so many (presumably) non-dialected
>    people using the word lately ? (or is it just me ?)

Well, everyone speaks a dialect, remember.  It's just that some
dialects are closer to what most educated individuals would consider
"good English" (i.e.  what is taught in schools, used by the press,
etc).  Between two people whose dialect includes "anyways," there
isn't a problem.  Between two people, one of whose dialects does not
include the word, it may be a different story.


--
Gabe Wiener - Columbia Univ.     "This 'telephone' has too many shortcomings 
gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu       to be seriously considered as a means of 
N2GPZ in ham radio circles        communication. The device is inherently of
72355,1226 on CI$                 no value to us." -Western Union memo, 1877
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: roberts@g2syd.genasys.com.au (Robert Swan)
Subject: Re: Collecting Funny Mistranslations
Organization: Genasys II, Sydney, Australia
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 02:10:41 GMT

In article <hayesstw.207.727443880@risc1.unisa.ac.za> hayesstw@risc1.unisa.ac.za (Steve Hayes) writes:
>In article <C12zA1.IGq@CAM.ORG> renault@CAM.ORG (Pierre Renault) writes:
>
>Some years ago Peugeot cars had a slogan in French which was something like 
>"Plus c'une pile couvre en sucre" (no guarantees on spelling etc.)
>
>This appeared as a sticker on the backs of cars sold in South Africa as 
>
>"More than a sugar coated pill"
>
>Of course, anyone with any sense would have bought a Renault.
If they had more than a little sense though, they'd have gone for
something more than a sugar coated pill.

Now, off the cars and onto goggles.  I enjoyed the packaging of a pair
of Taiwanese goggles I bought which proudly and prominently declared
"High Quantity Motorcycle Goggles".  There's truth in labelling for
you!

Have fun,

Robert.
-- 
I used to be indecisive,   | Robert Swan, roberts@g2syd.genasys.com.au
but now I'm not so sure.   | Genasys II Pty. Ltd., North Sydney.
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: emcoop@bnr.ca (hume smith)
Subject: Re: Is there an actor
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Ottawa, Canada
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 16:26:09 GMT

In article <1993Jan15.111356.25678@rose.com> greg.grainger@rose.com (greg grainger) writes:

   Date Entered: 01-15-93 06:07
   On Jan. 13, cizrc@unicorn.nott.ac.uk (Roy Candler) wrote:

   CI>An evening class in Eng Lit/Language is having a problem.  The course
   CI>includes the play 'Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead' by Tom
   CI>Stoppard, and we are puzzled by one of the stage directions, which is

free plug(?) - i saw the film on A&E, and it's a great piece.

   CI>'beat.'  None of us has any theatrical experience and we are, well,
   CI>beat.  Can anyone shed some light on the meaning of the word in this
   CI>context?  I am assuming it is some kind of standard instruction to the
   CI>actors, such as 'pause'.

   Bingo! Got it in one!

   That's *exactly* what it means. A short pause, as it were to allow the
   import of the line to sink in, or to allow the audience to get the joke.

   Of course, the *length* of the beat is variable, but usually one breath is
   maximum.

i suspect it falls into the "comic timing" sort of stuff.  gotta find the
right length within a few milliseconds tolerance :-).  i think there's
a few [beat] instructions in the Fawlty Towers scripts, if you want
more examples.
--
Hume Smith                                Honour sick and davey cris-cross
hume.smith@acadiau.ca                     McTruloff sentimie
emcoop@bnr.ca                             A parsnip inner pair threes.
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: pelton@ecf.toronto.edu (PELTON MATTHEW ALAN)
Subject: Re: Is there an actor
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 00:20:59 GMT

  Doesn't anybody think that the stage direction "beat" is related to the
expression "he let a beat pass."  Folk etymology says it's related to the
musical beat (unit of time).  The stage direction says to rest for one
musical beat.


Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: brea9430@mach1.wlu.ca (breadner ken u)
Subject: "Have a Nice Day"
Organization: Wilfrid Laurier University
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 15:37:25 GMT

This phrase is one of my biggest pet peeves. But its irritation factor
(IF) pales into insignificance when compared with the novel North American
conversation that I have to go through time after time and day after day:

"Hi! How are you?"
"Fine. And how are you?"
"Fine"...

Was there ever a time when people actually listened to each other? I
recall reading about a game show host who lost his job over the following
exchange:

"And what does your husband do, Mrs. X?"
"Well...actually, my husband has passed away..."
"Oh, isn't that nice?!"

Frankly, I am amazed anyone noticed--because nobody ever listens to the
half-baked conversations that pass for "formalities".

Try this. When someone asks "How are you", or some variation on this,
answer in an indifferent tone, "Terrible". You'd be surprised how often
you get a nice, cheery response.

Does this crap happen only in English? Is it cultural--does it happen on
the other side of the Atlantic? Or is it universal?
-- 
Ken Breadner	(brea9430@mach1.wlu.ca)	Wilfrid Laurier University
lunatic		(the BREADbox...) 	Waterloo, Ontario, Canada 
"If you have built your castles in the air, do not despair. That is where
they belong. Now put the foundations under them." --Thoreau
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: phd1667@ultb.isc.rit.edu (P.H. Dixon)
Subject: Re: a/an exceptions
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 15:43:48 GMT

Hello,

I apologize if this is obvious, but I just had to mention that MIPS is
not really plural, as it stands for:
Million Instructions per Second.....

Thus, asking how many MIPS a device has.. is correct--and not plural...

Cheers,

Philip
From: neilg@cs.hw.ac.uk (Neil MG Gall)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: RE: Hi Fi etc
Date: 26 Jan 93 16:04:52 GMT
Organization: Department of Computing and Electrical Engineering, Heriot-Watt University, Edinburgh

In article <8383@tekig7.PEN.TEK.COM>, briand@tekig5.pen.tek.com (Brian D Diehm) writes:

** This is interesting, because the "fi" sound in English is similarly
** ridiculous. The word is not pronounced "FI-del-i-tee" where the first
** syllable rhymes with "eye." The word is pronounced "fih-DEL-ih-tee"
** with a short "I" sound and the accent on the second syllable.
** 
** (U.K. usage may differ.)

Everyone I know says "fih-DEL-ih-tee", but I can think of lots of words
that _do_ have the "FI" sound:

	finance
	five
	file
	lots of words ending "-fy" : qualify, mistify etc

These must have similar pronunciations in the US - the sound to me is exactly the same sound as in "hi-fi".

+-----------------------------------------------+------------------------+
|  Blessed are they who Go Around in Circles,   |     Neil M.G. Gall     |
|      for they shall be known as Wheels.       |   neilg@uk.ac.hw.cee   |
+-----------------------------------------------+------------------------+
From: pdc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Paul Crowley)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Have to
Date: 23 Jan 93 14:50:50 GMT
Reply-To: pdc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Paul Crowley)
Organization: Edinburgh University

Quoting gtoal@rachel.ibmpcug.co.uk (Graham Toal) in article <C164tv.5uo@ibmpcug.co.uk>:
>In article <1993Jan20.135433.8397@pixel.kodak.com> john@liebnitz.ssd.kodak.com (John Hall) writes:
>>	I have two apples.
>>	I have to leave.
>>
>>Here in western New York I hear the first as "hav", but the second as
>>"haf".  Has anyone else observed this?  Can you explain it?
>
>Everyone in the world has observed it, on almost every word.  It's
>particularly obvious on The too.  It is called 'stress' and there
>are even books about it...  Try English Word Stress by Fudge for
>an excellent intro.

I think you're mistaken.  Quite apart from that, you should remember
that this group was created for the discussion of language without the
precision and scholarship appropriate to sci.lang.
  __                                  _____
\/ o\ Paul Crowley   pdc@dcs.ed.ac.uk \\ //
/\__/ Trust me. I know what I'm doing. \X/ 
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: djb6@ellis.uchicago.edu (Dennis Brennan)
Subject: Will vs. Shall
Reply-To: djb6@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 19:06:44 GMT

Questions about the use of the verb "will" vs. the verb "shall"

- What's the difference?  Many people in America apparently don't
know and use "will" in all cases.  My intuitive guess was that 
"shall" was subjunctive.  Lately I've been told that they are the
same verb, except that "shall" is used for the first person and
"will" in other cases.  This sounds correct to me.  Is it true?

-Can the abbreviation apostrophe l l ('ll) be used to abbreviate
both "will" and "shall," or just "will"?



-- 
Dennis Brennan
djb6@midway.uchicago.edu
From: au500@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Linda Zinn)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Will vs. Shall
Date: 24 Jan 1993 14:22:38 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: au500@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Linda Zinn)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc4.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, djb6@ellis.uchicago.edu (Dennis Brennan) says:

>Questions about the use of the verb "will" vs. the verb "shall"
>
>- What's the difference?  Many people in America apparently don't
>know and use "will" in all cases.  My intuitive guess was that 
>"shall" was subjunctive.  Lately I've been told that they are the
>same verb, except that "shall" is used for the first person and
>"will" in other cases.  This sounds correct to me.  Is it true?
>
>-Can the abbreviation apostrophe l l ('ll) be used to abbreviate
>both "will" and "shall," or just "will"?

Harry Shaw (in _Dictionary of Problem Words and Expressions_) says (and
it's what I was taught in junior high school, so it _must_ be correct):

   Distinctions in the use of _shall_ and _will_ have broken down, but
   some careful speakers still observe these principles: (1) Use _shall_
   in the first person or _will_ in the second or third person to 
   express future time: "I (we) _shall_ leave soon." You (they _will leave
   soon.

Shaw goes on to say that to express command or determination,
use the opposite: "You shall clean your room." "I will finish the
race. 

Two dictionaries I checked say that "I'll" is a contraction for either
"I will" or "I shall."

BTW, Shaw also cites an example of Churchill's disregarding the shall/will
rule several times in a speech, so I guess it's not just an American thing.
Nevertheless, I think you're right: I almost never remember to say or
write "I shall," and this seems to be the norm in the U.S.
-- 
________________________________________________________________________
* Linda Zinn                    When you point a finger at someone,    *
* au500@cleveland.freenet.edu   you're pointing three back at yourself *
* ******Wanted: Books by E.D.E.N. Southworth; cattail dinnerware****** *
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: lionel@cs.city.ac.uk (Lionel Tun)
Subject: Picture window?
Organization: City University, London
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 18:03:54 GMT

What is a `picture window'? Is it a large window which is a
strong feature of a room and overlooks a magnificent view,
or is it a window with coloured glass?

--
  ________  Lionel Tun, lionel@cs.city.ac.uk  ________
 / /_  __/\       Computer Vision Group      /\ \__  _\
/___/_/_/\/ City University, London EC1V 0HB \ \___\_\_\
\___\_\_\/        071-477 8000 ext 3889       \/___/_/_/
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english,alt.prose.d,alt.quotations
From: tom_schwengler@msmgate.mrg.uswest.com (skeptic Frenchman)
Subject: Re: Figures of Speech and Their Names
XXXDate: Thu, 28 Jan 93 10:32:03 GMT
XUserAgent: Nuntius v1.1.1d8
XXXMessageID: <A78D66A36E010123@tom_schwengler.mrg.uswest.com>
Organization: U S West M.R.G.
NntpPostingHost: tom_schwengler.mrg.uswest.com
Date: 28 Jan 93 17:33:25 GMT

In article <930128.111819.9S5.rusnews.w165w@mantis.co.uk> Ralph Betza,
gnohmon@ssiny.com writes:
>		Note: "In Alabama the tusks are looser" is paranomasia,
>		but "How an elephant got into my pajamas I'll never know"
>		is zeugma.

Sorry, I don't see the zeugma in : "How an elephant got into my pajamas
I'll never know".
Your illustrating example of zeugma :
>zeugma: use of a word in two senses; "he opened the door and his
>	heart to her"
was better; a zeugma is a figure of speech that consist in constructing a
sentence with a word related to the coordination or juxtaposition of two
propositions in such a manner that it modifies each with a different
connotation or sense.
I do not see that in : "How an elephant got into my pajamas I'll never
know".

Can you tell me if I missed something ?

Sincerely

Tom

P.S. Typo; in :
>		Note: "In Alabama the tusks are looser" is paranomasia,
it should be parOnomasia of course.  Watch out for paranoia...
From: iad@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Ivan A Derzhanski)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Canadian English
Date: 21 Jan 93 11:07:43 GMT
Organization: Centre for Cognitive Science, Edinburgh, UK

In article <C133uo.9yH@ecf.toronto.edu> pelton@ecf.toronto.edu (PELTON MATTHEW ALAN) writes:
>  Hey -- that's right isn't it?  Everybody here thinks [the British] do
>[think in kilometres and Centigrade], for some reason.  When I actually
>visited over there, I was suprised to find all the signs in miles...
>  How about a Frenchman saying "It's about 160km" (only in French).

As a continental European, I spent the first dozen or so years of my
life under the impression that the whole world thought in kilometres
and Centigrade.  I had a mighty good time when I first came across a
copy of _The Times_.  It contained a number of cooking recipes with
all temperatures listed in Centigrade, Fahrenheit and gas marks.  On
the other hand, in the weather forecast the temperatures were given
only in Centigrade and Fahrenheit, but not in gas marks, for some reason.

-- 
 `D'ye mind tellin me whit the two o ye are gaun oan aboot?' (The Glasgow
Ivan A Derzhanski  (iad@cogsci.ed.ac.uk; iad@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu)    Gospel)
* Centre for Cognitive Science,  2 Buccleuch Place,  Edinburgh EH8 9LW,  UK
* Cowan House, Pollock Halls, 18 Holyrood Park Road, Edinburgh EH16 5BD, UK
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: baron@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Dennis Baron)
Subject: Re: 3 guesses
Organization: University of Illinois
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 14:52:38 GMT

In article <30722@castle.ed.ac.uk> benha@castle.ed.ac.uk (Ben Hambidge) writes:
>Path: news.cso.uiuc.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!rpi!usc!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!pipex!warwick!uknet!edcastle!benha
>From: benha@castle.ed.ac.uk (Ben Hambidge)
>Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
>Subject: 3 guesses
>Message-ID: <30722@castle.ed.ac.uk>
>Date: 25 Jan 93 11:48:21 GMT
>Organization: Edinburgh University
>Lines: 13
>
>Does anyone know the origin of 'three' in the phrase 'I'll give
>you three guesses'?
>
>Ben.
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Ben Hambidge    |                       |Bread is the staff of life; Toast is
>4 Merchiston Ave| benha@castle.ed.ac.uk |a decadent capitalist luxury.
>EDINBURGH       |-----------------------|------------------------------------ 
>EH10 4NX        |Tel: +44 31 447 4047   |Smile they said, life could be worse.
>U.K.            |                       |So I did, and it was.
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------


How many guesses do we have?  (I know, that's one ...)

Dennis (whose fingers aren't working very well today; sorry for
the empty post)

debaron@uiuc.edu               (\                   217-333-2392
                               \'\             fax: 217-333-4321
Dennis Baron                    \'\           __________
Department of English           / '|         ()_________)
Univ. of Illinois               \ '/          \ ~~~~~~~~ \
608 S. Wright St.                 \             \ ~~~~~~   \
Urbana IL 61801                   ==).            \__________\
                                 (__)             ()__________)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: slb22@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Seth "the Lesser")
Subject: Re: "Registrating" or "Registration"?
Organization: Generic American College Kids (G.A.C.K.)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 18:20:18 GMT
Reply-To: slb22@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Seth "the Lesser")
Distribution: alt
X-Posted-From: cunixb.cc.columbia.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

etxsvkl@garboa03.ericsson.se (Svante Kleist) writes:
>
>	imagine that something is registered somewhere, e.g.  a report is
>	registered at an office.
>
>	What do you then call that office?  "The registration office"
>	or "The registering office"? (I suspect the former being correct.)

"The Registrar's Office"?

Seth L. Blumberg          \    "The whole thing was an accident.  No saboteur
slb22@columbia.edu (play)   \ could have been so wildly optimistic as to think
sethb@ctr.columbia.edu (work) \    he could destroy an airplane this way."
    > No one I know shares my opinions, least of all Columbia University. <
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: Words that are Opposites...
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 04:04:52 GMT

In article <C17z6D.ILD@mach1.wlu.ca> brea9430@mach1.wlu.ca (breadner ken u) writes:
>Here's an idiosyncracy I have always found fascinating.

>The verb "to cleave", depending on context, can mean "to split apart" or
>"to cling together".

>A "fat chance" and a "slim chance" are one and the same.

>Are there more of these wierd phrases out there?

Sure.  "oversight."  

Roger
From: mabwn@levels.unisa.edu.au (Brian Nickels)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: 3 Grammar Questions.
Date: 22 Jan 93 16:52:49 +1030
Summary: Punctuation, Commas, Lists
Keywords: Punctuation, commas, lists
Organization: University of South Australia


In article <BELBOZ.93Jan13115632@hoe.frc.ri.cmu.edu>,
belboz@frc2.frc.ri.cmu.edu (Barry Brumitt) writes:
>
> 2) If you have a list of adjectives, which is correct, punctuation
> wise:
>       a) "Bob was tall, dumb and ugly"
> or    b) "Bob was tall, dumb, and ugly"
> or    c) Both are correct.
>
> 3) If you only two adjectives before a noun, is it permissible to
> serparate them with a comma, eg
>       "Dumb, tall Bob ate sausage."
>
        There is a publication by Eric Partridge, originally 1953 and
reprinted in 1977 and 1978, which I find explains things extremely well.

        The book is titled 'You Have a Point There - A Guide to
Punctuation and its Allies' with a chapter on American Practice by John
W. Clark (Pub.: Routledge & Kegan Paul, London, Boston & Henley).

        In dealing with matters such as those posed (from his British view
of the English language) he summarises by saying:

        'It is better to avoid difficulties syntactically than to have to
resolve them by subtle punctuation; if they are syntactically unavoidable,
puctuation has to be especially good.  Even such variations as I have show
above will, to the inquiring mind, suggest that punctuation does truly form
an integral part of style.' (p.17)

        His example closest to that in 2) is:

        Their names are Tom, Dick, Harry and Jim.

        or:

        Jack, Jill and Tom went up the hill.

        and that closest to 3) is:

        An odd, strange, curious, queer creature

        with the alternative:

        An odd, strange, curious and queer creature

        He gives many, many examples far more complex than these.

        John Clark gives some general statements about British usage v.
American usage which are best obtained from the book itself.  However,
for the particular problems given he offers:

        '(2) Last comma in "a, b [,] and c." Mr. Partridge, in, agreement with
general British prescription and practice, recommends, "a, b and c"; American
handbooks generally recommend "a, b, and c"; American printers, especially of
newspapers, usually prefer British practice but can often be got to use that
recommended by most American handbooks.' (p.214)

        It must be pointed out that the extracts given above are isolated
elements.  Comments on them should ONLY be made after reading the full text
from the book itself. (I wish I had commissions due for this sales pitch!)

        Brian.  Phone: +618 302 3446
                Internet: Brian.Nickels@Levels.UniSA.Edu.AU
From: scotty@netcom.com (J Scott Peter)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: a/an exceptions
Date: 26 Jan 93 10:26:53 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <C1FD2v.35x@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu> norlin@midway.ecn.uoknor.edu (Norman Lin) writes:
>This bugs me
>almost as much as a passage I read in "USA today" a few days ago,
>concerning price/performance of new semiconductor technologies:
>"blah blah, $xxxxx/yyy MIPS, which is $xxx/MIP."
>
>What on earth is a MIP?  "Million Instructions Per."  Per WHAT, fergawdzake?
>
>Sigh.

Oh, come on.  Much as I hate language errors in general, you have to love
an errnoneous back-formation like MIP.  Probably the first people to use
it did it inadvertently at first, realised their error, then decided to
use it anyway for the silliness of it.

Have you never said `How many MIPS is it?', treating the word as a
plural?
-- 
J Scott Peter XXXIII  // "Instantiating new solutions in the emerging arena
scotty@netcom.com    // of transcending the de-facto horizons of industry-
Las Anjealous       // standard open paradigms."