HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ah340@yfn.ysu.edu (Michelle Fiera)
Subject: Re: Tough questions.
Reply-To: ah340@yfn.ysu.edu (Michelle Fiera)
Organization: St. Elizabeth Hospital, Youngstown, OH
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 23:45:02 GMT


In a previous article, hackbod@xanth.CS.ORST.EDU (Dianne Hackborn) says:

>And as for women understanding what it is like to be a woman...
>Well...  it doesn't really seem to matter; they just don't understand
>why I feel the need to do this.  Most people take gender for granted,
>and have a hard time understanding me because of that rather than any
>idea of what a man or woman "feels like."

Yeah I can see what you're saying.  I'm still having trouble trying to
figure out exactly what is "maleness" and "femaleness".  I'm pretty sure
I want to have a female body to match my mind, but if you asked me what
the definition of the difference between maleness and femaleness I just
couldn't give it to you.

*hugs*
Michelle

-- 
"So beautiful - damsel in distress | Michelle Ann Fiera    |"Gender is not a 
 not exactly natural - stunning    | ah340@yfn.ysu.edu     | state of body -
 none the less" -Suzanne Vega      | ap.6592@cupid.sai.com | it's a state of 
		"As Girls Go"      |                       | mind"
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
Subject: Impossible Questions
From: cvadratv@vmsb.is.csupomona.edu
Date: 19 Nov 92 22:23:03 PST
Organization: California State Polytechnic University, Pomona
Nntp-Posting-User: cvadrbha

What is it like along the journy from 'male' to 'female'?

As I seem to be walking that path, and clues would be appreciated.

Diane
From: cvadratv@vmsb.is.csupomona.edu
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
Subject: Re: Tough questions.
Date: 17 Nov 92 04:27:41 GMT
Organization: California State Polytechnic University, Pomona
Nntp-Posting-User: cvadratv


>>>completely distinct from my gender identity. All
>>>these discussions really are great!  I hadn't talked to anyone about
>>>any of these feelings until about a week and a half ago, and I've
>>>already learned so much about myself..

Yes it was a relief to find people who actually understand whats going on in my
life.

>>psychologists (well mine at least) feel that I should be attracted to
>>men and not women if i'm a m->f TS.  I'm bi with a leaning to women.
>>I guess that would make me a lesbian traped in a man's body?!
> 
> I kind of resemble that remark.  I've never found men very physically
> attractive, I've always found women more physically attractive and still
> do.  What I do find attractive is the idea of being with a man as a woman,
> more than any specific man himself. [...]

As my interest/acceptiance of being TS has grown, my attraction to men has
increased as well. Some men are attractive enough to me to be distracting.
(It's so annoying to trying to pay attention in class but be distracted by a
cute teacher. <Grin>  Now, when I see a woman, the intrest I seem to feel is
mostly how closely she represents what i'd like to look/be like. 

The confusing part is, earlier, I didn't show any real interest in men, and a
subdued attraction to women.

Diane.
From: edw@psg.com (Ed Wright)
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
Subject: An anon posting/mail service
Date: 16 Nov 92 21:15:49 GMT
Organization: Pacific Systems Group, Portland Oregon US



This is a sig I saw on a.s.b
All things considred I thought some readers of this group might want to avail
themselves of the service.
Ed
>--
>To use this service, send mail to:
>Anonymous posting:	<name.of.news.group>@anon.penet.fi
>Anonymous mail:		<user's alias>@anon.penet.fi
>			<user%host>@anon.penet.fi
>Test path/get alias:	ping@anon.penet.fi
>Assign nickname:	nick@anon.penet.fi	(in Subject:)
>Anon administrator:	an0@anon.penet.fi	(anonymously)
>			admin@anon.penet.fi	(non-anon)


-- 
 REAL RADIOS             edw@m2xenix.psg.com            GLOW IN THE DARK
        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<<^^>>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    >>No Voice>>>>>> Amateur Radio   KA9AHQ @ 28.340  <<<<<<<No Vice<<
  >>> Kshatriya Auscultating 9 Ailurophiles Hypothesizing Quodlibets <<<
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
From: rallen@netcom.com (Robert W. Allen)
Subject: Re: An anon posting/mail service
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 03:18:25 GMT

edw@psg.com (Ed Wright) writes:
>This is a sig I saw on a.s.b
>All things considred I thought some readers of this group might want to avail
>themselves of the service.
>Ed
>>--
>>To use this service, send mail to:
>>Anonymous posting:	<name.of.news.group>@anon.penet.fi
>>Anonymous mail:		<user's alias>@anon.penet.fi
>>			<user%host>@anon.penet.fi
>>Test path/get alias:	ping@anon.penet.fi
>>Assign nickname:	nick@anon.penet.fi	(in Subject:)
>>Anon administrator:	an0@anon.penet.fi	(anonymously)
>>			admin@anon.penet.fi	(non-anon)

You realize that the '.fi' suffix means that this machine is in Finland.
This does not mean that it won't work, it just might take a while for posts
and mail to get there & back (unless you're in Finland, I guess).
--
Rob Allen
rallen@netcom.com
From: haker@yar.cs.wisc.edu (Mike Haker)
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
Subject: Re: Tough questions.
Date: 16 Nov 92 03:20:06 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin, Madison -- Anthropology Dept.

In article <BxMLBz.Duz.2@cs.cmu.edu> anonymus+2941@godiva.nectar.cs.cmu.edu (Confused of Springfield) writes:
>once in a while somehow invalidates my transsexual leanings. I sort of
>feel that I ought to hate my male genitalia more than I actually do (my
>attitude is more "Well, they're very nice as male sex organs I guess,
>and they seem to work okay; it's just that I wasn't exactly after *male*
>sex organs"). It seems like my getting sexual pleasure from them
>contradicts the idea that I'd like to be rid of them.

In many ways I feel the same way.  But I think the difference is that
we do not have any resistence to getting rid of them.  Almost every
guy I talk to, has an almost biological 'knee-jerk' reaction to the
thought of losing their balls.  I don't (I pretend I do when socially
appropriate).  In fact that was almost invariably the first question I
was asked by my friends when I told them about my feelings.

>"Worse" perhaps, I've also masturbated while crossdressed. Does this
>mean that I'm not transsexual at all but that just a Fetishistic
>Transvestite, who isn't comfortable with that label (since it seems more

Again, I am the same, and unfortunately this made my shrink label me the same
way, and said I was not 'an appropriate candidate for gender reassignment'.
I still feel there is more to my feelings than just trying to explain
away a fetish. I have no doubt that my feelings of gender dysphoria are
real and that I am a female inside who happens to have male genitalia.
Right now I am able to live with this apparent contradiction.

>Similarly, my amateurish attempts at gaffing feel nice (I say amateurish

Well here we differ.  Gaffing has NEVER been anything but painful for me.
(sorry for the double negative)

Best Wishes
Michael/Michelle H.
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
From: micki@netcom.com (Michelle Stone)
Subject: Re: Tough questions.
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 08:30:31 GMT

Michelle Fiera <ap.6443@cupid.sai.com> writes:

>been whether or not the fact that I'm ocassionally sexually aroused
>while wearing women's clothes means I'm therefore not a TS.  I've 


Not true.  And you don't have to lie about it to your counselor
either.  Many things have changed in the past 15 years.  If 
you have a good counselor, she/he will help you.


-- 
Michelle Stone     micki@netcom.com

By the way.  I find myself to be a recent addition to the 
unemployment statistic.  I am a software manager.  If  you know
of an opportunity, please let me know!
From: anonymus+3327@godiva.nectar.cs.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
Subject: estrogen
Date: 11 Nov 92 20:22:37 GMT
Organization: Anonymous contact service

Can anyone comment on the effects taking 2.5mg of Premarin daily would have on a 170  
pound mildly male body.  Natural sources of estrogen such as Black cohosh, licorice root,   
Dong Quai, and sarsparilla are too slow and its hard to know how much to take. 
-- 
No test posting.  To use this service, mail to (note misspelling, "anonymus"):
Anonymous posting:	anonymus+name.of.news.group@godiva.nectar.cs.cmu.edu
Anonymous mail:		user's-alias@godiva.nectar.cs.cmu.edu
Test path/get alias:	anonymus+ping@godiva.nectar.cs.cmu.edu
Assign nickname:	anonymus+nick@godiva.nectar.cs.cmu.edu	(in Subject:)
Anon administrator:	anonymus+0@godiva.nectar.cs.cmu.edu	(anonymously)
			anonymus+admin@godiva.nectar.cs.cmu.edu	(non-anon)
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
Subject: Re: Help
From: cvadratv@vmsb.is.csupomona.edu
Date: 15 Nov 92 21:59:22 PST
Organization: California State Polytechnic University, Pomona
Nntp-Posting-User: cvadratv

Well, I've been a bit slow in responding because [useless excuses 
deleted to save disk space.] :) 

The first point that most everyone who responded to my plea 
suggested was go see a counselor. So far I've spent, oh, about one 
and a half years, in therapy. (One reason I was so frustrated... 1.5 
years, and I just developed enough confidence to directly discuss
wanting to be female with my counselor.)

Out of curiosity, how important is it to find a therapist with 
experiance handling TSism? Now that we're trying to deal directly 
with it he admitted he hasn't helped someone through this before. 
(Though in his defense his advice has been usually good-- e.g. last 
session his suggestion was to 'go out and talk to people who've gone 
through this before.)

----
Recently I also started talk about this with my mother. And 
according to her, she's been afraid of something like this 
happening.

Now for a quick aside on why she'd think that... 
  My childhood wasn't a cheerful place, my relationship with my 
father was... shall we say... strained <Ironic/Sarcastic overtones>. 
My therapist wondered if my father was alcholoic, after i described 
his aparently random rages. (& no my father isn't alcholoic, just 
a workoholic.) 
  Most of my (positive) interation with adults as child was with my mother & 
her strong personalitied female friends. 

Now back to my point-- Since she was somewhat worried, she was 
trying to watch for 'warning' signs, (basically trying to do 
'feminine' things.) which I didn't do. My interests through my life 
included horses, dinosaurs, trains, science fiction, and computers. 
(my interest in SF started soon after I could read, and continued 
through now, the others came in phases.)

So, just how important is showing really early external signs of 
being TS? Can one who didn't manage to adjust as a woman?

(The counter argument I receintly thought of is-- why should I have 
i didn't have any role models doing/telling me to do any of those 
activitites.

-------
After reading many of the posts here, several ideas occured to me. 

One reason for my nervousness was trying to use logic to make an 
emotional decision. (It's hard to do a cost/benifit analysis of how 
an action will make you feel.) 

The other was a feeling that Diane does a better job of representing 
all of me now, as well as who I want to be in the future. As her 
I've shown more openess,  and a wider range of emotions  (positive 
ones for instance). All in all, a better example of complete
personality.

These reasons/rationalizations seem good enough to me to end my self 
doubts.

Diane
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
From: edw@psg.com (Ed Wright)
Subject: Re: An anon posting/mail service
Organization: Pacific Systems Group, Portland Oregon US
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 19:33:11 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.031825.14665@netcom.com> rallen@netcom.com (Robert W. Allen) writes:
>edw@psg.com (Ed Wright) writes:
>>This is a sig I saw on a.s.b
>>All things considred I thought some readers of this group might want to avail
>>themselves of the service.
>>Ed
>>>--
>>>To use this service, send mail to:
>>>Anonymous posting:	<name.of.news.group>@anon.penet.fi
>>>Anonymous mail:		<user's alias>@anon.penet.fi
>>>			<user%host>@anon.penet.fi
>>>Test path/get alias:	ping@anon.penet.fi
>>>Assign nickname:	nick@anon.penet.fi	(in Subject:)
>>>Anon administrator:	an0@anon.penet.fi	(anonymously)
>>>			admin@anon.penet.fi	(non-anon)
>
>You realize that the '.fi' suffix means that this machine is in Finland.
>This does not mean that it won't work, it just might take a while for posts
>and mail to get there & back (unless you're in Finland, I guess).

I'm just trying to help out.
Frankly, if you are the internet, it take darn little time to propagate
to finland and back.
I get solar flare reports from finland via ftp and the speed is quite
usable. So Be anonymous and international !
Ed
-- 
 REAL RADIOS             edw@m2xenix.psg.com            GLOW IN THE DARK
        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<<^^>>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    >>No Voice>>>>>> Amateur Radio   KA9AHQ @ 28.340  <<<<<<<No Vice<<
  >>> Kshatriya Auscultating 9 Ailurophiles Hypothesizing Quodlibets <<<
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
From: ipacs@solomon.technet.sg (IPACS PTE LTD)
Subject: Re: Troubled
Organization: TECHNET, Singapore
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 08:16:00 GMT

I have found it strange too, to have my voice changing, I was afraid that it may "uncrack" fully but my doc told me that it wouldn't and it normally will not reverse for an adult of age 22-25+ but since I am only 18 the action of the hormones on the vocal cords is not totally premanent yet.

It's alright that some people find what actually happened a little way out, but I have finally come to a conclusion after several weeks of psychotherapy etc. whatever you call it. My what I learnt from the psychiatrist, it isn't what other sees that is important - it is what myself feel - and I feel the same after this tragic event. So why bother to go thru
another surgery. I wouldn't bother to take hormone replacement if not for the recommendation by my doc - that since I am 18 I would require to build my my bone mass before 25-30 otherwise I would have the problem of osteoporosis later in life. 

The computer over here has some problems over the pass few days and I manage to reply today. Currently the situation is with the settling of the damages done and I hope it would be over soon and things get back to normal again. Thanks for the mails that I got some really helped - while others... sadly :-( they doubt my words.

Just a word to those who plan to go for such reassignment surgery - have a very careful think over it. Firstly it is irreversible, painful process and it kills your sex drive completely. Masturbation is not like it use to be even though the surgeons have left a small piece of erectile tissue as the clitoris.
From: cn327@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Joseph Todd Rozwood)
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
Subject: hey
Date: 21 Nov 1992 06:02:58 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


hmm im 21 right now and started cd thnakx to ma and her roomie/gf sue at th ae egage of 11
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
From: devin@frodo.Colorado.EDU (Sonja Orlavski)
Subject: Re: Spouses, and more...
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 16:36:07 GMT

Celeste (celeste%express@freedom.msfc.nasa.gov) wrote:
: I have read that the feel of the glue one ones is so good it
: can't be described. They say it is like have a real pair!
: Also, you can go bra less or wear that low cut strapless dress!

Well...Yes and no.

Glueing them on is certainly nice - they move a lot more like real breasts
would, and the weight feels more...right, I guess.  However, the big thing
about them that bothers me is that I can't feel things properly...i.e. the
weight feels right but I have no feeling in my breasts, as it were. *sigh*
I guess I'll just have to wait for hormones to do their thing...

Also, the glue and the remover does wonderful things to your skin...not.
My chest is generally red for up to 24 hours after taking them off.  I
tend to not glue them on unless I'm going _out_ somewhere, where I might
be, oh, say, dancing or something.  Otherwise I just drop them in a bra.

And as for wearing strapless dresses, I wouldn't.  The support structure
just isn't there...i.e. it pulls on the wrong places and such, and
most strapless dresses show too much anyway (they look real, but not
_that_ real).

			-Deb

--
Deborah Parks (RP90)  (SotM 7/91)  DoD #0034  deb@boulder.colorado.edu   ------
"It's being both that's a bitch."                                      --\--- /
"I wanted to take my brain to hell and back and see what I had left."  \  \ //
"This howling in the distance, it's a captivating sound.                \  \/
        Can't tell if it's ecstasy or pain..."  -DW                      \/
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
From:  (vi)
Subject: CD Fiction
Followup-To: alt.transgendered
Organization: Taligent, Inc.
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 18:02:06 GMT

TV's will enjoy the story "The All-Girl Football Team"
in the book of the same name by Charles Nordan (Vintage).
Sounds like he's done more than think about it.
From: anonymus+3327@godiva.nectar.cs.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
Subject: estrogen
Date: 11 Nov 92 20:20:58 GMT
Organization: Anonymous contact service

Can anyone comment on the effects taking 2.5mg of Premarin daily would have on a 170  
pound mildly male body.  Natural sources of estrogen such as Black cohosh, licorice root,   
Dong Quai, and sarsparilla are too slow and its hard to know how much to take. 
-- 
No test posting.  To use this service, mail to (note misspelling, "anonymus"):
Anonymous posting:	anonymus+name.of.news.group@godiva.nectar.cs.cmu.edu
Anonymous mail:		user's-alias@godiva.nectar.cs.cmu.edu
Test path/get alias:	anonymus+ping@godiva.nectar.cs.cmu.edu
Assign nickname:	anonymus+nick@godiva.nectar.cs.cmu.edu	(in Subject:)
Anon administrator:	anonymus+0@godiva.nectar.cs.cmu.edu	(anonymously)
			anonymus+admin@godiva.nectar.cs.cmu.edu	(non-anon)
From: benedict@dg-rtp.dg.com (Dale Benedict)
Subject: Breasts (Was Re: Spouses, and more...)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 19:46:01 GMT
Distribution: world 
Organization: Data General Corporation, Research Triangle Park, NC

In article <1992Nov18.163607.28703@colorado.edu>, devin@frodo.Colorado.EDU (Sonja Orlavski) writes:
> And as for wearing strapless dresses, I wouldn't.  The support structure
> just isn't there...i.e. it pulls on the wrong places and such, and
> most strapless dresses show too much anyway (they look real, but not
> _that_ real).

Hi.  One of the biggest give aways for cross-dressers is a BIG chest.  Yes, 
there are Dolly Parton's out there, but they certainly are not the norm...   
I bought a rather nice pair from a boutique in NYC (Muriels) that were 
size B.  Early on, I was happy with them, but now they seem just too big 
and they sit in my dresser drawer...  (They seem much bigger than a B)

If your chest has some bulk to it (fat or muscle), there is a technique for
creating cleavage by in effect pushing them together and using some athletic 
tape and moleskin to hold them in place.  Not too difficult to get some 
dramatic affects!  If there's interest, I can find my "how-to" guide and post 
the necessary step by step instructions.  You can check out your potential 
by cupping your breasts together and looking into a mirror.

If you have enough fatty tissue (perhaps from hormones), you might want to 
try a push-up bra.  No extra work is required, so it's very natural.  I 
feel much more comfortable being a natural size 36A.  There are also 
strapless and very low cut push-up bras which look good with low-cut tops 
and strapless dresses.

Personally, I have never been fond of BIG breasts, so maybe that is why I 
don't mind not having a C or D cup size.   

   --Dale

_________________________________ 
Internet: benedict@dg-rtp.dg.com
I speak for myself, not my employer...

Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
From: micki@netcom.com (Michelle Stone)
Subject: Re: Tough questions.
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 08:33:26 GMT

haker@yar.cs.wisc.edu (Mike Haker) writes:

>While this is obvious to the non-TS (its called homosexuality), the
>psychologists (well mine at least) feel that I should be attracted to
>men and not women if i'm a m->f TS.  I'm bi with a leaning to women.
>I guess that would make me a lesbian traped in a man's body?!

Sexual orientation is not related to the "gender dysphoria".  There
are m-f's who have no attraction to men until sometime after SRS.
-- 
Michelle Stone     micki@netcom.com

By the way.  I find myself to be a recent addition to the 
unemployment statistic.  I am a software manager.  If  you know
of an opportunity, please let me know!

Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
From: celeste%express@freedom.msfc.nasa.gov (Celeste)
Subject: Re: Wrong Surgery
Followup-To: alt.transgendered
Organization: AEGIS
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 01:58:22 GMT

In article <1992Nov21.035006.15773@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>,
icarter@nyx.cs.du.edu (Iona Carter) wrote:
> 
> Seriously though, how do people handle their parents and other family? I know
> that my parents would always love me what ever I did, but they would think of 
> THEMSELVES as have failed completely. This just is not true, they have always
> done the right things, and I am proud to be their daughter (son as they would
> see it). They are both committed Christians (so am I) and it would completely
> blow their world apart, my mother once told me her views on Transsexuals :
> 
[stuff deleted]
> Love and (mostly) transatlantic hugs,
> 
> Iona.                      (in the UK, Canterbury University in Kent)
> 

A new book: The Transsexual's Survival Guide II by JoAnn String
talks about this. The info is:
   Transsexuals do not live in a vacumm. Their transion process
 affectes everyone around them. This second volume is for the family,
 friends and employers. It will help the extended family of the
 transsexual undertand transition and suggests ways to make it easier
 for all.

IFGE sells this publication. Since you are in UK I suggest you
contact TV/TS in London for a copy.

Love and hugs,

Celeste
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
From: ah340@yfn.ysu.edu (Michelle Fiera)
Subject: Re: Tough questions.
Reply-To: ah340@yfn.ysu.edu (Michelle Fiera)
Organization: St. Elizabeth Hospital, Youngstown, OH
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 00:30:27 GMT


In a previous article, scg@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Kelly Martin) says:

>I have run into a small number who don't have this sort of reaction.
>These are the type of people I can out myself to.  (In addition to the
>readers of this group, I have outed myself to my main circle of
>friends in email and to about four people in direct face-to-face
>confrontation).

How did your friends react? I've thought of outing myself to my friends
from H.S. and I'm not sure quite how they'd handle it...

*hugs*
Michelle

-- 
"So beautiful - damsel in distress | Michelle Fiera        |"Gender is not a 
 not exactly natural - stunning    | ah340@yfn.ysu.edu     | state of body -
 none the less" -Suzanne Vega      | ap.6592@cupid.sai.com | it's a state of 
		"As Girls Go"      |                       | mind"    
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered