Return-Path: <phil@wubios>
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL17]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 3098
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.stat-l
Date:         Tue, 22 Dec 1992 09:23:17 -0600
From:         "J. Philip Miller" <phil@WUBIOS.WUSTL.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Tutorial Software (fwd)

Forwarded message:
 dkw4@NIOSHE2.EM.CDC.GOV     Deanna Wild writes:
>
> I forwarded J. Philip Miller's comments about the dangers of using
> spreadsheet packages with ill-conditioned data to some of the industrial
> hygienists I work with.  What follows is a response from one of them.
>
> Dr. Miller, could you answer these questions directly if you've got the
> time/energy?  If not, I'll take my own best stab 'cause I tend to concur
> with your opinion.   I'd also be happy to hear from anyone else on this.
>

I suggest anyone really interested in this should go back to the archives of
STAT-L & EDSTAT-L and get all of the debates.  I can't say the basic concerns
any better than Paul Vellman who wrote to EDSTAT-L  a little over a year ago:

                  o /             o /             o /             o /
  --Cut-here-------X---------------X---------------X---------------X----
                  o \             o \             o \             o \

I'm sorry, Bob, but you persist in ignoring what several of us have been saying
on this board and on Stat-L. The formulas in the textbook *must not*  be used
for computing. It doesn't really matter whether they are used in a spreadsheet
or somewhere else. It is wrong, dishonest, and frankly, incompetent to teach
students to use these formulas for computing. You are teaching them false
information (or worse, information that seems to be true and is almost true
most of the time, but fails without warning.) Would you teach that the Earth
was the center of the universe simply because you have not seen with your own
eyes clear evidence to contradict that "obvious" fact? Or would you trust that
experts in the field who have studied the matter might have some knowledge that
you should convey to your students?  A Geocentric universe works pretty well
until you push the model; the Sun, Moon, and stars circle the earth and all
looks OK. Well, we do have occasional wanderers in the sky, but we can
"reformulate" the problem a bit and account for them most of the time...

Several experts in statistical computing have said during the Stat-L discussion
that the choice of algorithm is an important one and that it is wrong to teach
students otherwise. There are many well-written statistics packages that do the
computing correctly, and  some of them are good teaching tools.  Given all of
this, there is simply no excuse for teaching students to calculate statistics
with unstable algorithms on inappropriate software platforms.

(For those of you who missed the several months of earlier discussion on
Stat-L, I appologize if I seem a bit peeved. We have been over this ground
several times but seem to make no headway.)

                  o /             o /             o /             o /
  --Cut-here-------X---------------X---------------X---------------X----
                  o \             o \             o \             o \


> Thanks very much -
>
> Deanna Wild
>


--
     J. Philip Miller, Professor, Division of Biostatistics, Box 8067
         Washington University Medical School, St. Louis MO 63110
     phil@wubios.WUstl.edu - Internet  (314) 362-3617 [362-2694(FAX)]
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU