Comments-Hellas:     ( Moderator approved Usenet mail )
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.hellas
Date:         Fri, 11 Sep 1992 13:59:00 EDT
Reply-To:     "(DIMITRIOS KOUVATSOS)" <dk0a@NS1.CC.LEHIGH.EDU>
Comments:     Warning -- original Sender: tag was SDA106@PSUVM
From:         "(DIMITRIOS KOUVATSOS)" <dk0a@NS1.CC.LEHIGH.EDU>
Subject:      Re: 'Se Mikra Asia, Kupro, Leukwsia..' [apanthsh ston D. Kouvatso

Mia apanthsh edw ston Kwsta Kwnstantinidh. Ofeilw na pw oti briskw thn
antikroush tou twn apopsewn mou lian asthenh.

>>>   Me to megalutero pazari tou 20ou aiwna (tis prwdotikes sumfwnies
>>>ths Lwzanhs to 1923, meta3u Benizelou-Kemal), [...]
>
>>Kala, sobarologeis re file h o kahmos sou pairnei ta myala?
>
>Kat'arxhn, den mou aresei to ufos sou (kuriws, apo thn stigmh pou den
>exw prosbalei kanenan) alla agnow to parapanw (opws kai ta paromoia pou
>uparxoun sto keimeno sou) kai 0a apanthsw.

Kat' arxhn to yfos mou exei aplws ton tono filikhs syzhthshs kai den ennow na
se prosbalw. Den tha eprepe na pairneis figures of the speech opws "sou
pairnei ta myala" 110% tois metrhtois, entoutois ekfrazw thn lyph mou gia thn
parekshghsh.

>>[...]
>>kalytera na emene h Kypros ypo Agglikh kyriarxia para na anoige etsi
>>hlithia o askos tou Aiolou, me ta gnwsta apotelesmata tou '74...
>
>Edw mallon 3exnas duo basikotata pragmata: 1o: oti h enoplh e3egersh
>htan apotelesma poluxronwn agwnwn (kuriws diplwmatikwn) gia autodia0esh-
>enwsh me thn Ellada kai 2o: oti htan to elladiko kratos pou polu
>lan0asmena (shmeio to opoio apofeugeis na sxoliaseis) apodekthke thn
>legomenh 'trimerh' diaskeyh dinontas etsi ena dwro sthn Tourkia: to
>dikaiwma na exei apaithseis (kai bleyeis) sthn Kupro.

1/ Polyxronwn? 1947-1955 htan toso polla xronia pou eprepe na arxisoume
polemo me tous Agglous? (prin ton WWII den eixame organwmenh diplwmatikh
prospatheia gia thn Kypro). Poly grhgora eksantlhthike h ypomonh mas...
Eprepe na epimeinoume kai allo diplwmatika. Mexri ta 1970s to poly oi Aggloi
tha efeugan kai tha edinan autodiathesh sthn Kypro.

2/ Den to apofeugw katholou - tounantion anaferw safestata oti h eisodos se
"trimerh" pou odhghse sthn Zyrixh htan olethrio sfalma ths Elladikhs
kybernhsews. Kai an oi Aggloi epemenan oti mono auto dexontousan kai oxi
diethnopoihsh (pou pali den to epidiwksame arketa), eprepe na tous afhsoume
thn Kypro (sigoura den tha eixan antirrhsh se synexish ths agglikhs
kyriarxias) kai na mhn mpoume se diapragmateuseis! Telika, meta 10-20 xronia
tha thn pairname.

>>Tha elega
>>malista oti, me thn ek twn ysterwn gnwsh bebaia, kalytera na mhn eixe ginei o
>>agwnas ths EOKA tou 55-59 - htan strathgiko mas sfalma!
>
>Mhpws htan la0os kai h apaithsh tou anafairetou dikaiwmatos ths
>autodia0eshs, mia kai auth htan anti0eth sta strathgika sumferonta tou
>Brettanikou apoikiokratikou neo-nazistikou ka0estwtos;

Nomizw oti eimai safestatos kai pws tha eprepe na diabazeis swsta ti lew,
apla ellhnika einai: Diplwmatikh piesh gia autodiathesh nai. Enoplos agwnas
to 1955 omws htan strathgika lathos. Kai fysika anaferomai sta strathgika
symferonta tou ellhnismou, oxi ths Bretannias! Einai dynaton na mhn to
katalabes auto, kai den tha tairiaze eirwniko yfos edw... telos pantwn,
apopoioumai ton peirasmo, kai afhnw kai tis asteiothtes peri neo-nazi kata
meros.

>Mhn 3exnas, epishs oti oi Kuprioi den h0elan thn 'ane3arthsia' thn opoia
>h Brettania 'edwse' se polles prwh apoikies ths, alla enwsh me thn Ellada.

As pairnate prwta thn aneksarthsia otan oi Aggloi telika tha efeugan apo monoi
tous, xwris tis xeiropedes ths Zyrixhs, kai enwnosastan me thn Ellada meta
opote thelate.

>Otan h Ellada katalabe oti h apodoxh apo merous ths, ths trimerous, htan
>pagida, tote dhlwse oti 0a eferne to kupriako 'ekei pou anhke': sta H.E
>Tote h Brettania apeilhse oti 0a eferne sthn epifaneia to legomeno
>Makedoniko problhma.

Dexomenos oti auto einai alhtheia (den eimai 100% sigouros, alla den einai to
point), eprepe tote na afhsoume thn Kypro (PROS TO PARON...) sthn Bretannia!
Kserw pws dyskola katapinetai mesa stis ethnikoapeleutherwtikes korwnes pou
tholwnan th skepsh mas, alla me psyxrh logikh htan h kalyterh epilogh. Oi
barbaroi den tha empainan sto paixnidi kai eventually tha efeugan oi Aggloi
kai oi synthikes tha htan 100 fores kalyteres (ektimhsh mou: 1970s) - kai
tote hsyxa kai wraia tha petyxainame aneksarthsia XWRIS veto twn T/K kai
eggyhtiko rolo ths Tourkias alla me aplo majority rule, kai h enwsh tha htan
typiko thema.

>>Alla na xarakthrizeis tis symfwnies ths Lwzannhs prodotikes, na xarakthrizeis
>>ton Benizelo prodoth dhladh - ton anthrwpo pou diplasiase thn Ellada kai tha
>>thn tetraplasiaze an o anengefalos ellhnikos laos den ton ediwxne apo thn
>>eksousia thn 1h Noembriou 1920 - einai anw potamwn kai katw pathsiwn!
>
>H Ellada upoxrew0hke sth Lwzanh na upograyei mia e3eutelistikh sumfwnia.
>Htan htthmenh, epomenws h upografh htan anapofeukth. Auto den shmainei oti
>oi sumfwnies autes eprepe na enax0oun se ideologia apo ta elladiko kratos
>(h Ellada eftase sto shmeio na tis epikaleitai, malista th stigmh pou
>h Tourkia tis a0ethse ametrhtes fores -kai auto pisteuw oti to anagnwrizeis).
>H Ellada 0a mporouse kallista na tis eixe kataggeilei apeires fores, kuriws
>meta tous barbarous diwgmous twn ekatontadwn xiliadwn Ellhnwn sthn Polh,
>thn Imbro kai thn Tenedo.

To oti h Ellada tha mporouse kai tha eprepe (symfwnw) na kataggeillei tis
symfwnies amesws meta tous diwgmous ths Polhs ths 5-6 Septembriou 1955 h se
allo euthetwtero xrono den kanei tis symfwnies, pou aplws eswsan o,ti mporouse
na swthei meta mia syntriptikh htta, prodotikes, oute ton BENIZELO (an einai
dunaton...) prodoth 32 xronia nwritera! Non-sequitur - it does not follow.
H kathgoria sou oti o Benizelos htan prodoths katholou den yposthrizetai kai
einai pragmatika apisteuta anohth. Mhn katebaineis sto epipedo skepshs ths
Eleutherhs Wras kai ths Aurianhs, kai egw se thewrw anwtero autou...

>Se parapempw sto biblio tou Blash Agtzidh 'Pontiakos Ellhnismos: Apo thn
>Genoktonia kai ton Stalisnismo sthn Perestro.ika', Ekdoseis Ad/fwn Kuriakidh,
>0essalonikh, 1990 (kef. 1) sto opoio malista uparxei kai fwtotupia tou
>'Rizospasth' pou se ar0ro tou aneferne: 'emeis oxi mono den luph0hkame gia
>thn astikotsiflikadikh htta sthn Mikra Asia, MA KAI THN EPIDIWKSAME'
>(an xreiastei, mporw na dwsw hmeromhnies klp, dioti auth th stigmh den exw
>ta suggrammata mazi mou).

Den xreiazetai, exw ki egw ola ta sxetika sygrammata symperilambanomenhs ths
fwtotypias - kai meta xaras blepw pws symfwnoume pws to KKE einai pragmati to
"Komma prodosias kai egklhmatos".

>Oxi, h htta htan anapofeukth [des, omws, pio katw kai ta shmeia sta opoia
>rixnw eu0unes ston Benizelo]

Elpizw na katalabaineis th diafora anamesa se euthynes apo lathi pou kai o
Benizelos ekane kai "prodosia" - gia ton anthrwpo pou epaikse ton pio megalo
rolo ston diplasiasmo ths Elladas, kai pou tha ekane poly perissotera pithanws
xwris thn olethria anohsia ths 1-11-20.

>>Eprepe hdh tote na to paroume
>>apofash oti h Kwnstantinoupolh xathike kai na antallaksoume kai autous (kai
>>to lew auto egw, kata to hmisy apo thn Polh...) - wste na mhn ftasoume sto
>>shmerino xali pou exoun eksafanisei autoi tous Ellhnes ths Polhs, Imbrou kai
>>Tenedou kai zhtane kai ta resta gia tous mousoulmanous ths D. Thrakhs.
>
>Edw anagnwrizeis oti to Tourkiko ka0estws a0ethse (kai sunexizei na to kanei)
>die0neis sumfwnies (Lwzanhs). S'auto to shmeio exw anafer0ei pio panw me
>leptomereies kai parapomph ston Bakalopoulo.

Ma den katalabaineis oti den einai auto to point kai ta kserw, kai symfwnw
me, ola osa les epi tou thematos?

>To shmeio pou aneferes, gia thn antallagh tou ellhnikou kwnstantinoupolitikou
>plh0usmou den to sxoliazw.

Giati? Opws den sxoliazeis pws tha htan shmera h Makedonia mas me 1,000,000
mousoulmanous! Einai poly shmantika themata. Fysikotata, tha htan poly
kalytera na eixame nikhsei ston polemo tou 1919-22 kai na eixame anasysthsei
thn Byzantinh Autokratoria, estw kai an eixame pollous mh Ellhnes sto kratos
mas - tha eimastan arketa dynatoi gia na afomoiwsoume pollous kai na
krathsoume manageable thn katastash me tous allous. Apo th stigmh omws pou to
oneiro ths megalhs ideas egine syntrimmia sth Smyrnh kai h Ellada emeine mia
mikrh balkanikh xwra xwris kammia pia elpida anakthshs twn xamenwn patridwn,
kalytera pou antallaksame tous plhthysmous wste na ginoume omoiogeneis kai na
mhn kanoun oloi claims sta edafh mas, xwris malista na mporoume emeis na
kanoume antipoina giati oi Tourkoi tha ediwxnan OUTWS H ALLWS me
systhmatikous diwgmous tous Ellhnes Mikrasiates kai Anakolikothrakiwtes mesa
se liges dekaeties. Htan eilhmmenh apofash twn Neotourkwn apo to 1908 - apo
th stigmh pou ta edafh auta emeinan ypo tourkikh kyriarxia, htan
katadikasmenoi. Des shmera: Oi Kwnstantinoupolites, Imbrioi kai Tenedioi
exoun eksandrapodistei PARA tis synthikes, oi mousoulmanoi ths D. Thrakhs
omws paramenoun. Kalytera na tous eixame antallaksei kai autous to '23 - tha
eixame apofygei ta shmerina problhmata sth D. Thrakh.

>>Dimitris Kouvatsos

>Kwnstantinos A. Kwnstantinidhs

Dimitris Kouvatsos

--
------------------------    "This is the greatest planet on the face of
+= Dimitris Kouvatsos *=     the earth"
<dk0a@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu>
------------------------           -- Vice President J. Danforth Quayle
*** * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ***
***           This is the original header of the Usenet mail          ***
*** * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ***

>+>Received: from PSUVM by PSUVM.PSU.EDU (Mailer R2.08) with BSMTP id 8009; Thu,
 10 Sep 92 21:36:36 EDT
>+>Received: from rutgers.edu by PSUVM.PSU.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP;
   Thu, 10 Sep 92 21:36:34 EDT
>+>Received: from ns1.CC.Lehigh.EDU by rutgers.edu (5.59/SMI4.0/RU1.4/3.08)
	id AA00954; Thu, 10 Sep 92 21:36:11 EDT
>+>Received: by ns1.CC.Lehigh.EDU id AA130143
  (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for bit-listserv-hellas@rutgers.edu); Thu, 10 Sep 1992
 21:36:10 -0400
>+>Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 21:36:10 -0400
>+>From: DIMITRIOS KOUVATSOS <dk0a@lehigh.edu>
>+>Message-Id: <199209110136.AA130143@ns1.CC.Lehigh.EDU>
>+>To: bit-listserv-hellas@rutgers.edu

>+>Newsgroups: bit.listserv.hellas
>+>Path: dk0a
>+>From: dk0a@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (DIMITRIOS KOUVATSOS)
>+>Subject: Re: 'Se Mikra Asia, Kupro, Leukwsia..' [apanthsh ston D. Kouvatso
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU