From: yzarn@lhdsy1.lahabra.chevron.com (Philip Yzarn de Louraille)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.french
Subject: Re: Guns, Motorcycles, and Internet Access in Paris
Date: 24 Aug 92 00:01:13 GMT
Organization: Chevron Oil Field Research, La Habra, CA.

In article <1992Aug23.113637.15024@husc3.harvard.edu> zeleny@husc9.harvard.edu (Michael Zeleny) writes:
>In article <6323@lhdsy1.lahabra.chevron.com> 
>yzarn@lhdsy1.lahabra.chevron.com (Philip Yzarn de Louraille) writes:
>
>>In article <1992Aug22.200627.15021@husc3.harvard.edu>
>>zeleny@husc9.harvard.edu (Michael Zeleny) writes:
>
>>>In article <6322@lhdsy1.lahabra.chevron.com> 
>>>yzarn@lhdsy1.lahabra.chevron.com (Philip Yzarn de Louraille) writes:
>
>>>>In article <1992Aug22.152202.15017@husc3.harvard.edu>
>>>>zeleny@husc9.harvard.edu (Michael Zeleny) writes:
>
>>>>... deleted stuff ...

even more deleted stuff ...
>
>
>MZ:
>>>>>(i)	French legislation pertaining firearms importation, ownership,
>>>>>possession, and carrying, especially by foreign nationals.
>
>PYL:
>>I do not know if this is true for non-french, but for a frog to be able to
>>*buy* a handgun, he/she must first be part of a gun club for at least 6
>>months (I think). After that period of time *and* after having shown up to
>>the shooting range on a weekly basis, the club president signs a paper
>>saying that you are a good person, then you must obtain an authorization
>>from the prefecture, (and you have to say *what* gun you want, like model,
>>brand, etc...), and then you can buy the "tool". You can only buy so many
>>cartridges (forgot how many..) but not too many, like two boxes at a time
>>(100 rounds).
>>Then you can only be in possession of the gun to and from the shooting
>>range. The gun must be disassembled in such a way
>>-revolver: the cylinder and the body must be separated (if it is possible)
>>with the cylinder in the car (glove compartment) the body *and* cartridges
>>in the trunk.
>>-pistol: the clip (unloaded, of course) in the glove compartment, the rest
>>of the gun is disassembled, separated from the cartridges and in the
>>trunk.
>
>It's interesting how the law assumes car ownership and use.  What about
>pedestrians or bicyclists?

Good points. You would have to carry these weapons in such as way as to
insure your impossibility of putting them back together quickly.
If you were to walk, the guns would have to be in a carrying case. Under
no circumstances would you be able to carry these guns under your clothes
*even* if they were dismantled.
Back to the carrying case:
pistol: taken apart all the way, and no cartridges in that carrying case,
(clip must not be loaded.) I would assume that having the admunitions in a
separate case would be OK, or that you could carry them in a box in your
pockets.

revolver: if cylinder cannot be separated, then you may not carry that
weapon with you, even in a carrying case, if you are to walk.
If you bycicle, then the case would have to be attached (usually in the
back). But even then, you are on a thin line. With a motorcycle, if it had
bags that can be locked and the carrying case(s) were in them, then that
would be OK. (Assume two bags, to separate cartridges and clips from
guns.)

rifles/hunting weapons: dismantled all the way. Same philosophy as above
pertain for the ammo.

Basically speaking, you must be able to convince the most stupid cop that
you would ever meet that you were indeed going to go to a shooting range
and that the weapons you are carrying cannot be fired without considerable
work.

>
>PYL:
>>Anyways, that covers most of what I remember from over 18 years ago when I
>>was 18 and leaving in France.
>>
>>Rules may have changed since. Don't know. Also, I may have forgotten some
>>but the above is quite correct for these times in spirit, at least.
>>
>>How does that applies for non-froggies: I would assume that you cannot
>>bring your guns (shotguns and hunting rifles excepted) in France.
>>Oh, by the way, in France, AR-15 like weapons, are not considered to be
>>hunting weapons.... so if this is what you want to bring in France, forget
>>it.
>
>OK, that's what I wanted to know.  Also, I understand that military
>calibers are explicitly proscribed, so that neither .308 Winchester (a.k.a.
>7.62 NATO) nor 9mm Luger is allowed.  Moreover, things must have changed in
>this century: Alfred Jarry used to comply with the law forbidding concealed
>carry of firearms by strapping several to his body in plain view, before
>mounting his bicycle.  In fact, I would like to know whether any private
>citizens may be allowed to carry their weapons loaded and concealed,
>whether by special dispensation, or by reasons of employment.

Private citizens? Last I know, french "private eyes" cannot get such
permits.
I believe that if you could show that you were the target of some people who
would want to kill you, that you might be able to get a temporay permit for a
concealed weapon. Of course, if you were to be Mr. Joe Blow Normal, like
99.5% of the population, this permit would most likely not be given to
you. If the government/police had reasons to keep you alive, then it would
be much easier...

So, unless you have very highly placed political connections, you will not
be able to get a permit for concealed (or plain view!!!!!!) weapons.

-- 
  Philip Yzarn de Louraille                 Internet: yzarn@chevron.com
  Research Support Division                 Unix & Open Systems
  Chevron Information & Technology Co.      Tel: (310) 694-9232
  P.O. Box 446, La Habra, CA 90633-0446     Fax: (310) 694-7709