From: rajain@sml3.ecs.umass.edu (Rajat Jain)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian,soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Excluding men (to Arathi)
Date: 17 Nov 92 22:26:23 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.indian
Organization: University of M"ass"achusetts, Amherst, MA

In an article rangana@cs.uwindsor.ca (RANGANATHAN A) writes:
|> In article rajain@sml3.ecs.umass.edu (Rajat Jain) writes:
|> >|> 3. If input from men is what is needed, a forum such as SCI would
|> >|> suffice.
|> >
|> >	Please think again because soon SCI is to be changed to SCIMNW......
|> >	soc.culture.indian.men.no.women !!!
|> 
|> An eye for an eye, eh ??
|> Feel on top of the world don't ya ??

	actually.....no! and I am not mentioning to "feeling on top of the 
	world". FYKI, my response was not meant to convey "an eye for an eye"
	kind of idea! That's ridiculous. Maybe it wasn't as clear as it should
	have been. One reason for my previous reply was that rom Uma's post
	I got a feeling that since (most of the) Indian women don't want to 
	hear about the ideas (or whatever you call them) of Indian males, then
	maybe they don't wanna follow SCI ! In *that* case, why keep it calling
	SCI when it wouldn't really represent "Indian" but only "Indian.men.but.
	no.women" ! I thought that since Indian women are utterly disgusted
	at the standard of the postings on SCi and feel like they are being
	"subdued" by Indian males on SCI, they won't bother to use SCI as a 
	forum for discussion !!! Plus, it wasn't a 100% serious suggestion!!!


|> 
|> >	mailing list !). This is a nice way of showing how insecure Indian
|> >	women are !!! (and it's a shame --- for Indian men and women).
|> 			   ^^^^^^^^^^^^
|> 
|> It truly is.

	Glad we agree at least on *one* point. You should have understood from
	here that I don't have "an eye for an eye" kind of attitude (BTW, I
	*am* included in the shameful part of Indian men cuz it's a shame
	for every one of us.....irrespective of sex).

|> 
|> >	Great! Let's start a group soc.culture.indian.men.on.women.issues,
|> >	and while we are in the process of setting up such a group, why not
|> >	create soc.culture.indian.women.on.men.issues and soc.culture.indian.
|> >	men.who.are.not.pigs.as.defined.by.indian.women ????
|> 
|> Thanks for the idea.
|> Truly you guys are a great help, informing us to focus our attention on the
|> very important issues of "Don't forget the Indian male".

	Actually, I am not sure how it all started but I guess the first
	seeds were sown by women themselves by starting up with an "exclusively
	for women" mailing list ! One is led to believe that the women were
	also crying "Don't forget the Indian Women" and finding no reprieve,
	they proceeded to form a mailing list. Now, before you hit "followup"
	let me point out that *thiS* is NOT another "it's always the fault of
	the feminine species" kind of statement. I am just musing about how
	it all started and how the Indian women have started practicing the
	very *same* beliefs which they wanted to get rid of. Don't you agree
	that that's why the mailing list came into existence ? Isn't "excluding
	men" a contradiction to the fundamental beliefs of your mailing list ?

|> Rajat, I really appreciate your concern and devotion to the *women issues*.

	Well, thank you.....but it would have been much better if this 
	appreciation was genuine and not hidden behind a note of sarcasm.
	It's unfortunate.

|> 
|> >	[Uma's loong but interesting (to women, mainly) personal thoughts 
|> >	  deleted ]
|> 
|> Excuse me, but I believe she mentioned that they were not her personal thoughts

	Please read Uma's post again. I agree that she mentioned (in the
	first couple of senetences) that they were not her personal thoughts, 
	however, then she went into "I personally feel....". I give her credit
	for successfully communicating her thoughts AND those of the women in
	general without any confusion. I *do* suggest that you go thru the post
	again.

|> 
|> >	Sure, I respect them. But what about the preferences of the men?
|> >	Or do you women care about *your* preferences only ? Get real !!!
|> 
|> I think SCI is catering to the preferences of the MEN quite successfully.

	Well, then how come you mentioned above that I wanted "an eye for an eye"
	just because I asked the name to be changed !!! (from SCI to SCIMNW" ) 
	???? If SCI is already catering to the preferences of the "MEN" quite
	successfully (and I assume you are trying to say that it's NOT doing
	the same for women), then, for practical purposes, it is all the more
	reason to change the name to SCIMNW so that a new-comer to SCI (male
	or female) immediately understands that this group caters only to MEN
	preferences (rather than going thru the agonizing day or two which
	takes to realise it)!!!! Don't you think this is a better way to save
	all the new-coming Indian women from going thru the same mental "Agony"
	which you, Umas and the others have already gone thru ??? 


|> If you are really concerned about the preferences of both men and women, 
|> follow your advice doode and *Get Real !!!*

	I am speaking realistically!!! Since it is obvious that women prefer
	to confer among species of the same gender (feel comfortable or
	whatever the reason might be), then it is only real that there is
	a conflict between the preferences of men and those of women !!! 
	No other solution, so form separate mailing lists :-)


|>  
|> Express your concerns on SCI  and I am sure you will get a lot of replies that 
|> may
|> alleviate the suffering that you undergo as an unloved and ignored Indian male.
|> ;-(

	I do! I do!!!!! ;------)))


|> 
|> >	To me it *does* sound like a cult....secret or not-secret !!!
|> 
|> You have every right to make up your mind.

	Thank you !


|> 
|> >	[loooong post deleted]
|> 
|> Pity. You should have read THIS one carefully.

	FYKI, I had already read it when it was originally posted and
	didn't think it was necessary to repost the same thing again and
	again and again !!! 


|> 
|> >PS: But how could I resist including my .signature when I saved so much 
|> >    bandwidth above :) So here it is !!!
|> 
|> Makes you feel like a COOL DOODE eh ?

	That's *youR* opinion :) Although I *must* mention that I don't
	usually include my .signature in my posts because it's a rare
	thing for me to post a reply which is long enuff to justify my
	long signature. I figured that it was justified for the above 
	reply and if you think I was trying to play the "COOL DOODE", 
	then .... you have a right to *your* opinions :-)


|> 
|> Arathi.
|> 
|> 
|> PS : If my opinions are not applicable to you, STAY COOL.

	No comment :-) Take care !!!

|> 
|>  
|> -- 
|> See simplicity in the complicated
|> 	- Lao Tzu
|> 

	rAjAt.


PS: See! see! No signature :-) (*this* time !!)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian,soc.culture.indian