HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gordons@CS.ColoState.EDU (vahl scott gordon)
Subject: out of material?
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 14:48:52 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University

In article <AeasVg_00WBL41i5oM@andrew.cmu.edu>, df1y+@andrew.cmu.edu (David
James Foremsky) says:
>
>I feel that the original compositions are very important to drum corps
>and will increase in importance in coming years when corps begin to
>realize that revisiting shows like "Fiddler on the Roof" are just not
>going to cut it in top twelve competition. (not really a knock on SCV,
>but just an observation that the horn book associated with that show
>just did not cut it this year).  It is probably only a matter of time
>until corps like the Cadets and Star "run out" of music to innovate with.

This is always the justification for adding electronics or any other
crazy thing.  But it isn't true at all.  I'd guess that drumcorps has
used about 1% of the major classical literature.  Same for jazz.  Drum
corps haven't even used any Mozart, or any of Brahm's symphonies.  There
are entire idioms that have been as yet untried.

I don't have anything against original compositions for drumcorps, but
I disagree that drumcorps has run out of music to play.  Do you have
any idea just how MUCH music is out there?
                                                       Scott

Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
From: bfhalls@vela.acs.oakland.edu (HALLS BRADLEY F)
Subject: Re: Original Corps Compositions (was: Drumcorps Sandwich)
Organization: Oakland University, Rochester MI.
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 17:02:44 GMT

In article <Btwntu.K04@wpi.WPI.EDU> ddm@wpi.WPI.EDU (David D Marshall) writes:

>My point is that to have rudimantal drumming not become detrimental to
>your orchestral playing, you have to practice them both for near equal
>amounts of time.  This is not difficult in the winter when corps practice
>one or two weekends a month, but during all days and on tour when you can
>practice for 10+ hrs a day it's impossible to find the time.  I've been
>practicing about 3-4 hrs a day to be able to march somewhere this year,
>and after my first orchestra rehearsal it sounded like I hadn't been doing
>any practicing, because I have only been working on the techniques that
>will help me make a corp.  I could keep up my orchestal sound if I practiced
>it, but time management says I can't.  I agree that there doesn't have to
>be a detrimental effect of rudimental playing on your orchestral sound, but
>that most people who aren't music majors don't have the time to keep both
>techniques up simultaniously (let alone the fact that some might want to
>keep up their techniques on keyboard percussion and timpani).

Finally we reach some common gound. :-) Not ever having been a music major,
I didn't have to go through what you are describing. Sounds like not enough
hours in the day to keep up with everything, and corps chops don't exactly 
impress the professors, I'll bet. I guess the best you can hope for is being
involved in a school and a corps that can appreciate your efforts to become
a more well rounded musician.

--Brad.



-- 
^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^
Brad Halls                                "Still looking for witty quote."
Computer Science Grad Student              -me         
Oakland University
Rochester, Michigan
bfhalls@vela.acs.oakland.edu

^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^
From: owens@watson.ibm.com (David Owens)
Subject:  drum solos (was "Re: Impressions--DCI Finals")
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 92 20:40:13 GMT
Reply-To: owens@watson.ibm.com (David Owens)
Organization: IBM T. J. Watson Research

In article <1992Sep2.172256.12233@vela.acs.oakland.edu>,
bfhalls@vela.acs.oakland.edu (HALLS BRADLEY F) writes:
|> In article <1992Sep1.234936.6439@iscsvax.uni.edu>
phelps1230@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:
|> >>     Also, a drum solo should be a required part of the competition.

|> >I believe drum solo IS still required, however they have become shorter and
|> >more integrated within a production....it is no longer a separate entity.
|> 
|> I WISH!
|> 
|> No drum solo is required. Consider all of the corps this year that
|> had no more than a few seconds set aside in their programs to display
|> the talents of their SUPERB percussion sections; GARFIELD, STAR, BLUE
|> KNIGHTS, VANGUARD (just to name a few). I am starting to think the
|> activity should be called Visual, Horn and a-little-drumming-on-the-
|> side-if-we-happen-to-get-some-time corps!
|> 
|> --Brad.

To each to their own... I've been saying for the past 7 or 8 years 
that drum solos should be on the way out.  If you've got a drum 
line you really want to show off...  do it with a couple short drum 
breaks.  You can actually give them more solo time, just in smaller 
chunks.

It rarely makes sense musically (to me) to stick 3 or 4 minutes of 
solid drumming in the middle of a show.  It always seems like too 
much of a difference from the rest, and way too long.  Unless the 
original piece of music calls for it, don't do it.

Of course, I'm not a drummer.  It always seems to me that the only
people who really LOVE drum solos is former drummers.  (I know, 
there's a million exceptions... :) )

Also... You don't need to have the horns and drums stop playing to
show off a good guard.  You don't need to have the drum line stop
playing and guard stand still to show off a good horn line.  And...
you don't need to have the horns stop playing to show off a good
drum line.  A good drum line can be fully appreciated and adjudicated
as part of an musical/visual ensemble.  (standard IMHO's apply)

Just my 2 cents...

Dave Owens (BAC member 85,87,88; staff 91...)
odavid@watson.ibm.com
From: R.Vincent.Lamb@um.cc.umich.edu
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
Subject: RE: Popcorn
Date: 28 Aug 1992 09:58:27 -0500
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

In article 1471, kxh26@cas.org wrote:
 
>Dare we suggest an informal Usenet Popcorn Poll?
 
Well, the alt.drumcorps Writer's Poll is supposed to be like that.
However, the last two have not come out (as Michael Fath noted).
This is at least partly because "doolittle" has been changing his
email address like a nomad moving his tent to keep ahead of bandits.
C'mon, we writers can't hit a moving target.  I was able to finger your
last address, doolittle, but a message to it bounced.  What gives?
 
Vince
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
From: cdoser@polari.online.com
Subject: Re: POPCORN
Organization: Seattle Online Public Access Unix.  (206) 328-4944 (all lines telebit-equipped)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 04:16:03 GMT

I don't want it to become an elitist sport. To misquote Shakespere,
"The audience is the thing". Without them, there would be very little
for a drum corps to do. The crowd is a very important part of the 
formula, and has to be taken into consideration. It is supposed to
be in a caption called....General Effect. Unfortunately, the judging
community has forgotten what effect for the audience is. I love intricate
music that is difficult to perform, I have played it myself. But it
has to also be entertaining, or it is not -effective-. As a friend,
Stanley Knaub has said for years, "Difficulty for difficulties sake is
not a good reason for doing something". It -has- to be entertaining
and that is the harder thing. It is not only the elite that they should
be aiming at, but the entire audience. I have marched, taught, and judged,
and believe me, to program a good show is difficult. To program one that
appeals to all people is even more difficult than programming a difficult
one.
                                                        _ _ _         /|
                                                        | | |        / |
____________________________________________ (|----------------- ___/  |
| Cathy Doser        *     Black Watch       (|---____________  \ __   |
| P.O. Box 69271     *      1972-1978             / /   | | |  \ |  \  |
| Seattle, WA 98168  * 1978 Class A Champions    | |   =|o| |= | |   \ |
|                    *  'You are what you are,    \ \_________/ /     \|
|                    *  or what you want to be!'   \___________/
|_____________________________________________________________________|
|      cdoser@atc.boeing.com     |    cathyj@f104.n343.fidonet.org    |
|_____________________________________________________________________|

Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
From: halk@solbourne.com (Hal Koshak)
Subject: Can't get through...
Organization: Solbourne Computer, Inc., Longmont, CO
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 19:35:42 GMT

My apologies to the group for posting this, but:

Vince Lamb, I'm not ignoring you, but every attempt to contact you
results in bounced mail from your end.  'Unknown User' is the usual
error.
From: cc0001@medtronic.COM (Christopher Carriero)
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
Subject: Starting A Drum Corps
Keywords: How?
Date: 2 Sep 92 18:13:28 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Medtronic, Inc.


Hi:

Have any of you had any experience starting a corps or been 
involved in the startup of a corps?  

If so, how do you go about it?  What is involved?  Is the cost 
of starting a corps feasible in this recession?  

I've been toying with the idea for some time and don't even
know where to start.

I don't know of any corps in the Minneapolis/St Paul area.  There
is the Minnesota Brass (Sr. Corps), North Force (in Fargo/Moorhead),
Blue Stars? (Lacrosse, WI).  

It seems that in a large metropolitan area such as Mpls/St Paul, 
there shouldn't be a lot of problems getting kids involved in
something as wonderful as the world of drum corps.  What do you
all think?  All comments are helpful.

Thanks,

-- Chris


-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Carriero			cc0001@medtronic.com
Medtronic, Inc.			(612)574-6062
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: HCM100@psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
Subject: Re: Percussion Techniques (was: Re: Original Corps Compositions)
Date: 28 Aug 92 19:24:00 GMT
 <1992Aug26.181214.628@vela.acs.oakland.edu> <BtpG23.9Gs@wpi.WPI.EDU>
 <1992Aug28.183156.6559@beaver.cs.washington.edu>
Organization: Penn State University

I had always been told (I was a pit dude, not a snare drummer) that there
were only a few different snare techniques.

Crush roll:  The stick is forced into the head for an indeterminate number
             of strikes.  The sound is rather muffled (Also called BUZZ ROLL?)

Military Roll:  The stick bounces twice on each stroke.
                (This may also be an OPEN STROKE ROLL)

Then there are also the 13 essential (some say 26) rudiments that compose
the majority of snare music.  Paradiddles and such.  Different bounce and
stroke techniques.  On keyboards (as on snare) we only really used SINGLE
STROKE ROLLS, with the occasional double if needed.  It's alot harder to do
with mallets than with sticks!

Just my $.02 worth.

| HANS C. MASING                   | A BAD ATTITUDE IS THE      |
| HCM100 @ PSUVM.PSU.EDU           | DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE     |
| MANAGEMENT INFORMATION SYSTEMS   | WAY I THINK AND THE WAY    |
| PENN STATE UNIVERSITY            | YOU THINK I SHOULD THINK.  |
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
From: jvbutera@grad09.math.ncsu.edu (Jeffrey V. Butera)
Subject: Re: VK's next frontier
Organization: NCSU Mathematics Dept.
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 16:11:58 GMT

In article <Sep01.150035.11835@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> gordons@CS.ColoState.EDU (vahl scott gordon) writes:
>eputnam@vax1.umkc.edu says:
>
>> toward more challenging music and The Planets would allow them to continue
>
>Excerpts from more commonly-known passages of the Planets (Mars and Jupiter)
>could also be thrown in.
>
>> A simple idea whose time has come.

And gone.  The Cavies played pieces of the planets a few years ago (88ish 
anyone help me?)

>
>It's a great idea!
>                               Scott 

And it was a great show by the Cavaliers (Now that I think, it may
have been 87)

-- 
Jeff Butera <> Math Grad Student, N.C. State <> jvbutera@math.ncsu.edu

DISCLAIMER: My views are my own and I'll be a big N.C.State Wolfpack 
fan as soon as hell freezes over.  Until then... Go Clemson Tigers! 
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
From: flip@cgrg.ohio-state.edu (Flip Phillips)
Subject: Re: Percussion Techniques (was: Re: Original Corps Compositions)
Organization: OSU, Advanced Computing Center for Arts & Design
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 20:52:31 GMT

In article <1992Aug29.043813.596@vela.acs.oakland.edu> bfhalls@vela.acs.oakland.edu (HALLS BRADLEY F) writes:
>In article <1992Aug28.183156.6559@beaver.cs.washington.edu> dci@cs.washington.edu (Donald Chinn) writes:
>
[...] Buzz vs open 

>>For you drum corps percussionists out there: how difficult was/is it
>>for you to learn how to do a concert roll (or, rather, "unlearn" the
>>military roll to be able to do a concert roll)?
>
>No problem at all. I think this might be like telling a clarinet

Same here, different strokes (so to say...). I was reared as a
Jazz drummer by my father, so the open stuff just laged behind
a bit untill I worked on developing different chops. 

>>I personally would like to hear more concert rolls in drum corps
>>performances, even though it would be less impressive visually.
>
>They are becomming more prevalent every year...too much so, in my
[...]

Well, to be real here, as a percussion arranger, I'll do whatever
is right for the application. If 100 measures of buzz rolls are what
is needed, then that's what gets put in.

The Marion Cadets Book in 1979 (or 80, can't remember...) had an
arrangment of 'Birdland' that was dominated by buzz rolls. But there
were enough open rolls to get the build-up points needed for the difficulty.

Again, when arranging, you go for contrast some of the time.

>>BTW, there were/are plenty of other good articles on percussion in the
>>Instrumentalist over the last couple years.  There was some article on
>>the N basic percussion rudiments (trivia quiz for percussionists: what
>>number is N?)
>
>Depends. Originally it was thirteen, then updated to 26, and more recently,
>thiry-something, (I think) in a pamphlet by Jay Wanamaker, Rob Carson, and
>a few others. Any self-respecting snare drummer could probably come up with
>50 or more "compound" rudiments.
>

Also, there are the infamous 'Swiss' rudiments some of which are included in
Jay et.al.s list if I recall corretly. Like Brad says, there are more than the
'Standard 26' of fame.

-- flip
From: gwr@tantalum.eds.com (George Rapp)
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
Subject: Re: alt.drumcorps netiquette
Date: 29 Aug 92 21:34:02 GMT
Reply-To: gwr@edsr.eds.com
Followup-To: alt.drumcorps
Organization: EDS Research

Hear, hear!  Thank you, Donald, for saying what needed to be said.

While I think it would be especially boring to only have an
alt.drumcorps.happy newsgroups (i.e., allowing no criticism and no
flame wars, ever), it's discouraging to see fellow corps fans run each
other down over what, in the final analysis, are only opinions.  That
only leaves pissed-off drum corps fans - I don't think anything good
has ever come out of a Usenet flame war.

> Well luckily alt.drumcorps has had a very high signal to noise ratio so
> far, although there have been brief signs that it might degenerate into
> just another worthless newsgroup.

I'd hate to have to unsubscribe for that reason.  However, IMHO it'll
never happen, because of a quality about corps people (members and fans
alike) that I've noticed over the last eleven years.  I have noticed
that people affiliated with the drum corps activity, in any way, are
good-quality folks with a common love of the activity.  I have struck
up numerous conversations with people in the stands at local
competitions and during DCI week, and I have yet to meet a person whom
I wouldn't be proud to associate with in my life.  They have a real
positive outlook on life.  I saw it again this year in Madison, sitting
next to a gentleman who had been affiliated with various corps for
about 30 years, and who had flown out from Connecticut to attend
Finals.  There's no other group of people I can think of who I enjoy
more.

The people who write for this newsgroup are of a similar vein, from the
~1300 articles I have read.  Whether they're members sharing their
experiences from years past (a part I find particularly enjoyable,
since I never marched, and that I would like to see more of), or just
fans, most of the stuff I've read has indicated that the writer is a
mature, thoughtful individual who really loves the activity.  Thus, I
think alt.drumcorps will enjoy a high S/N ratio, specifically because
of the people involved.

Just my two cents worth ...  8^)

---
George Rapp                              Electronic Data Systems Corporation
EDS Research                             7171 Forest Lane, C212
(UUCP: uunet!edsr!midearthmail!gwr)      Dallas, Texas  75230   214/661-6478
(Internet: gwr@edsr.eds.com or edsr!gwr@uunet.uu.net)
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
From: jerger@d0msu7.fnal.gov (Steve Jerger, Michigan State / D0 (708) 840-8367)
Subject: Re: Duct Tape
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-a4  
Reply-To: jerger@d0msu7.fnal.gov
Organization: Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory
Distribution:  world
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 02:02:52 GMT

Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
From: ddm@wpi.WPI.EDU (David D Marshall)
Subject: Re: Impressions--DCI Finalsdir
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 15:10:56 GMT

In article <1992Sep2.172256.12233@vela.acs.oakland.edu> bfhalls@vela.acs.oakland.edu (HALLS BRADLEY F) writes:
>In article <1992Sep1.234936.6439@iscsvax.uni.edu> phelps1230@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:
>
>>>     Also, a drum solo should be a required part of the competition.
>>
>>I believe drum solo IS still required, however they have become shorter and
>>more integrated within a production....it is no longer a separate entity.
>
>I WISH!
>
>No drum solo is required. Consider all of the corps this year that
>had no more than a few seconds set aside in their programs to display
>the talents of their SUPERB percussion sections; GARFIELD, STAR, BLUE
>KNIGHTS, VANGUARD (just to name a few). I am starting to think the
>activity should be called Visual, Horn and a-little-drumming-on-the-
>side-if-we-happen-to-get-some-time corps!
>
>--Brad.
>
Hey Brad, I agree with you, and it didn't take a week to figure it out :).
It would be awsome to hear some of the smoking drumlines be able to strut
their stuff.  This reminds me of '87 Finals, I think, when the Garfield won
percussion with a perfect 20, at the time I thought that there must have been
some mistake, but when you sit down and really concentrate on what they are
doing and how it fits into the overall program, it was a great performance.

Speaking of smoking drum solos, what are some of the Net's favorite.  Mine are
(in no particular order):
(1) Early '80's Spirit "Devil Went Down to Georgia"
(2) '86 Devils "Channel One Suite"
(3) '86 SCV (Don't know title)
(4) '87 Spirit's Bass Drum part



-- 
 Spirit '88      |"So get off your butt and ride."      |     _,-~o     |
 ?????? '93      |"It's the motor that wins the races." |    _-\_<,     |
                 |               E-mail ddm@wpi.wpi.edu |   (*)/'(*)    |

Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
From: rwberry@hubcap.clemson.edu (Robert W Berry)
Subject: Re: DCI recordings survey
Organization: Clemson University
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 00:40:34 GMT

matthews@eecs.ucdavis.edu (Thomas W. Matthews) writes:

>3.  The television audio has advertised "Dolby surround" in the
>past.  This process attempts to provide the listener with two

As an aside, Dolby only has one rear channel.

>rear channels in addition to two front channels.  I have been told
>that the goal of using Dolby surround on the DCI broadcasts was
>to put some crowd sound behind the listener, to increase the
>realism.  Unfortunately, the sound that is supposed to come out
>of the two rear channels is not completely isolated from the two
>front channels, meaning that the listener must put up with an
>increase in crowd sound, especially if he/she does not
>have a Dolby surround decoder.  I haven't heard a DCI tape played
>back with a Dolby surround decoder and rear speakers.  Is it worth the 
>trouble?

In my opinion, no.  As far as I can tell, all of my Video Express tapes
(I have the high-camera tapes from 1988-on) are *NOT* encoded with Dolby
surround.  I have never had access to a stereo recording of the PBS
broadcast, so I can't speak there.  The only sound I get out of my back
speakers is the normal L-R that you get from any stereo recording.
(However, I listen to the tapes with a synthesized surround, and the
effect is fairly neat.)  If the tapes are in Dolby surround, the effect
is minimal.

Later,
Bob

-- 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-=- Bob Berry -=- Net-Guru's Inc.        ! rwberry@hubcap.clemson.edu   -=-
-=- Teach them quick, before they think. ! 803-654-7623 || 803-656-1076 -=-
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
From: rwberry@hubcap.clemson.edu (Robert W Berry)
Subject: Re: Length of shows 
Organization: Clemson University
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 03:51:41 GMT

fath1@husc8.harvard.edu (Michael Fath) writes:

>I think DCI changed the maximum time
>because the it was getting difficult for corps to maintain the high degree
>of performance for the longer time.  There was an old Contest Guild
>that addressed this issue, but I don't remember the specific reasons cited.

For what it's worth Michael, my brother and I agree with you
completely.

Later,
Bob
-- 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-=- Bob Berry -=- Net-Guru's Inc.        ! rwberry@hubcap.clemson.edu   -=-
-=- Teach them quick, before they think. ! 803-654-7623 || 803-656-1076 -=-
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
From: df1y+@andrew.cmu.edu (David James Foremsky)
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
Subject: 1992 Captions & etc.
Date: 26 Aug 92 13:39:53 GMT
Organization: Junior, Civil Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Can anybody post the caption awards from this year's finals?  I have
read rumors that the BD guard won the auxiliary award.  Oh well. 
Another reason for me to dislike the whole competition "thing" all this
much more.

Does anybody know who I should write to to complain about the finals
broadcast?  Should it be to DCI or to PBS?  It really pi**ed me off that
all of the beginnings of the shows were cut off because of introducing
the drum majors (sorry - they could wait until after their performance
if it is really that important) and that the Cadet's silent company
front was totally missed. The guard work was great, but not worth
missing the drill over.

Gowdy is improving, but I still long for the days of Michael Kumer and
Don Angelica.

deej.
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps