HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bcannard@hppcb36.mentorg.com (The Human Mi-Go)
Subject: Re: T$R Newest "Product"
Originator: bcannard@hppcb36
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 19:39:38 GMT
Reply-To: bob_cannard@mentorg.com
Organization: Yuggoth Ores and Quality Used Brains
Keywords: 
Followup-To: 


In article <1992Dec21.230218.4873@schbbs.mot.com>, TUK865@maccvm.corp.mot.com (Stephen Gill) writes:
|> Who are we, gamers in general, to complain? We put up with DRAGON when it
|> refused to recognise the existence of anything non-DnD. Here in the UK
|> the biggest selling 'roleplaying magazine' is CITADEL'S monthly catalogue
|> WHITE DWARF, which ten years ago was the only independant mag going.

WHITE DWARF was not independent at any stage of its existence.
It was created and published by and for Games Workshop.
-- 
bob_cannard@mentorg.com			"More dynamite!" - Theron Marks
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: bchapman@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Bruce Patrick Chapman)
Subject: Re: T$R Newest "Product"
Followup-To: 9005904@sscvax.cis.mcmaster.ca 
Organization: chaos limitedn
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 12:40:48 GMT

In article <1992Dec21.230218.4873@schbbs.mot.com> TUK865@maccvm.corp.mot.com (Stephen Gill) writes:
>It looks to me like roleplayers in general are lost when it comes to
>careful buying, how many of you have bought games that you've never even
>read, never mind played. I must admit I'm into double figures and must be
>getting close to triple figures by now.
>
...well...i must say that i've never bought a game that i haven't played, 
and in many cases, don't _still_ play...

something one of the local gaming stores has started doing, is opening the
game, doing a test run, and _then_ seeing if you want to buy it - doesn't
hurt them, and certainly encourages more people to buy.

does anyone else have a local store with a similar policy? and how many of
your locals run gaming clubs?

cheers!
c.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This is forwarded mail.  Please send all comments etc. to the following
		address: <9005904@mcmaster.bitnet>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: slouie@ocf.berkeley.edu (Shelley Louie)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: AD&D bashing (was Re: Getting up my nose (Top 5 games))
Date: 30 Dec 1992 09:04:45 GMT
Organization: Bat Radar Studies, UC Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: sandstorm.berkeley.edu

> jacobus@symphony.cc.purdue.edu (Bryan J. Maloney) writes:
>> ketil@ii.uib.no writes:
>>Brent Irvine (irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu) wrote:
>>	Brent> [stuff deletd about how 1st Edition D&D was the best and it is all downhill]
>>	Brent> "When *we* started playing RPG's we had to make our own
>>	Brent> dice out of REAL DRAGON BONES, and had to roll the dice
>>	Brent> uphill, both ways!! Now *that* was gaming!"

>>>>>>> On Fri, 11 Dec 1992 12:09:21 GMT, jasonr@syma.sussex.ac.uk
>>(Jason F Ralph) said:
>>	Jason> "Ah well, we had it tough... We used to have to game
>>	Jason> WITHOUT dice! We had to roll STICKS! A dice would have
>>	Jason> been luxury to us. There we were, 78 of us huddled
>>	Jason> together in a paper bag in the middle of the road
>>	Jason> sucking on a damp cloth and munching our cold gravel."

>>"Luxury!  We only had time to play from midnight to one a.m. on
>>christmas eve, and had to knock out all out teeth to get dice.  We
>>didn't have pen *or* paper, but carved battlemaps with our nails in
>>the concrete walls in the 4" sewer pipe we had to play in.  Dragon
>>bones, HAH!"
 
>God!  You lucky bastards!  When WE started gaming, the GM would KILL one
>of the players once a week just so we'd remember what a corpse looked
>like.  Then we had to dig out the poor sot's heart with our TEETH.  After
>that, IF we were lucky, we were allowed to cut off our finger joints and
>use them for dice.  And nobody had better disagree, either.  If that
>happened, not only would the GM kill the player and both the other players
>sitting on either side of him, but then he'd run off and kill that players
>ENTIRE family for ten generations to either side.

HA! When I started playing RPGs we didn't HAVE random numbers. We could only
use the number 1, over and over again. Didn't have zeros or these fancy numbers
with all the wierd angles and curves. And our DM would go out and hunt down 
the monsters we'd meet. We'd have to use a stick and harsh language to kill
the monsters. Not easy since we only had ONE stick (not sharpened) but then 
the DM could only bring in one monster at a time. If a player got the DM upset,
he'd yell out "You! Dragon!" (didn't have verbs yet) and we'd have to kill the
player with our one stick and lots of harsh language. And all of this to gain
one experience point (which didn't ever come into play since everyone ALWAYS 
had one experience point). 

And if we got unruly, the neighbors would chase us with their ONE Frankenstein 
rake and the town's torch (not lit, this is in the pre-fire days) and kill us
all while chanting "You! DM! You! Evil! You! D&Der!""

Meanest bunch of Fantasy Hero advocates I've ever met....

And we didn't eat. We just starved until they INVENTED food. 

-Shelley Louie
Digital is illusion. Life is analog.
From: evil@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Todd Goodman)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Steve Jackson Games Internet connection
Date: 31 Dec 1992 21:08:40 -0600
Organization: Kansas State University
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: matt.ksu.ksu.edu


I saw in an old Roleplayer(R) magazine that Steve Jackson Games was
toying with the idea of getting an internet connection (they have a BBS,
but I'm a long way from Texas!).  Anyone know if this has come about and
what the address is if it does exist?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     Todd Goodman             "I've done . . . questionable things..."
 evil@matt.ksu.ksu.edu                            -- Roy Batty  (Blade Runner)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: matthias@nsr.hp.com (Matthias Kamm)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: AD&D bashing (was Re: Getting up my nose (Top 5 games))
Date: 30 Dec 1992 18:56:59 GMT
Organization: Hewlett Packard Santa Clara Site
NNTP-Posting-Host: hpmvd069.nsr.hp.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.2 PL7]

: -Shelley Louie
: Digital is illusion. Life is analog.

Haven't you ever heard of quantum physics!?
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: TUK865@maccvm.corp.mot.com (Stephen Gill)
Subject: Re: Good old White Dwarf & new GW (was: Re: T$R Newest "Product")
Organization: Motorola
Date: 29 Dec 1992 11:04:24 CST

From: philipd@cs.kuleuven.ac.be (Philip Dutre)


>I knew that, but never made the link between the games that were covered by
>WD and the games that were sold by GW stores. Indeed, if this were the case,
>you can hardly call "the old Dwarf" an independent magazine.

But at the time WD was publishing for ALL the popular games including a
few they hadn't got the rights to (FGU games for example) and they also
had no links to the games at all outside of the UK. I was in Africa a lot
of the time and was just as likely to buy from the US as the UK.


>BTW, I wonder what is going to happen to GW during the coming years. I know
>a LOT of people who were once Warhammer-addicts (including myself), but are
>turning away from GW en masse because they don't longer like the "improved"
>games such as WH40K, WFB or Space Marine. It seems GW is producing more
>and more stuff that should attract younger players (e.g. steam tanks, noise
>marines, childish magic etc...). And if so, where are all those younger
>players going to get the money to buy a lot of expensive miniatures?

From their folks. If you go into any Games Workshop in the UK nowadays
the vast majority, ninety percent plus, of the customers are under 16s
dragging their parents, with wallets, around.

My favorite range of figures ever, Dark Future - lovely for any Cyber
game - has been stopped by Citadel because the big box with a couple of
bits of plastic in wasn't selling well enough and the game didn't hit
their target demographics correctly. This worries me, the big marketing
words are taking over the hobby fast.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Gill, internet TUK865@maccvm.corp.mot.com
MOTOROLA LMPS, European fin. MIS, Camberley Surrey UK

These opinions are mine, mine all mine   nya,ha,ha !
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: rowlan@lechuguilla.mcs.anl.gov (John_Rowlan)
Subject: Unix-based adventure games
Organization: Argonne National Laboratory, Chicago, Illinois
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 01:37:12 GMT


Does anyone know of any state-of-the-art Unix-based adventure role-playing
games ??  There was once a text-based game called Adventure - anyone know of
that or where it can be gotten ???

Thanks


---------------------------------------------------------------------
John Rowlan, Building 203                Phone:  (708) 252-7587
Mathematics Computer Science Division    Email:  rowlan@mcs.anl.gov
Argonne National Laboratory              Fax:    (708) 252-5986
9700 S. Cass avenue, Argonne, Il 60439
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.archives
From: magundi@gaul.csd.uwo.ca (john macdonald)
Subject: Re: Vectrex cartridges for sale or trade
Organization: Computer Science Dept., Univ. of Western Ontario, London, Canada
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 07:53:43 GMT

In article <skelly.0lru@amiganet.chi.il.us> skelly@amiganet.chi.il.us (Sean Kelly) writes:
>In article <1992Dec16.202212.9750@julian.uwo.ca>, magundi@gaul.csd.uwo.ca (john
>macdonald) writes:
>>
>
>     John, I am still waiting for those games I ordered from you????  Any idea
>when they will be sent?
>

Ever heard of e-mail?  :-)
Anyways since there are a couple of people waiting for cartridges
from me.  Sorry about the delay.
Between mail problems and an unexpected 
19 hour shutdown the day I was going away for a Three week
vacation I was unable to get address from my mail messages to
send the cartridges off.  I get back










ZZ


:w
ZZ
ZZ



quit




xw

January 11 and they will go back then
From: skelly@amiganet.chi.il.us (Sean Kelly)
Newsgroups: rec.games.vectrex
Subject: Re: Vectrex cartridges for sale or trade
Date: 26 Dec 92 01:02:54 CST
Organization: Amiga Network Information Systems

In article <1992Dec16.202212.9750@julian.uwo.ca>, magundi@gaul.csd.uwo.ca (john
macdonald) writes:
>
>I have these vectrex cartridges for sale.  All are new in boxes 
>with overlays and instructions.   Asking $10 each.
>Buy more than two and I will also send a copy of the repair manual
>It is missing a few pages but nothing important.
>
>
>Armor..Attack
>Berzerk
>Blitz!
>Clean Sweep
>Cosmic Chasm
>RipOff
>Scramble
>Star Trek
>



     John, I am still waiting for those games I ordered from you????  Any idea
when they will be sent?

%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%
%   Sean Kelly - Sysop Amizon BBS (312)594-1146                         %
%   Always looking for classic video games for the following systems:   %
%                                                                       %
%  Atari 2600-Atari 5200-ColecoVision-Atari 5200-Intellivision-Vectrex  %
%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%
From: jwk3@po.CWRU.Edu (John W. Kale)
Newsgroups: rec.games.vectrex
Subject: Vectrex Repair
Date: 30 Dec 1992 02:06:47 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Distribution: inet
Reply-To: jwk3@po.CWRU.Edu (John W. Kale)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc5.ins.cwru.edu


	Surely, this is a FAQ: where can I get a Vectrex repaired?
I bought one a few years ago, and it was a ton o' fun, until it
died. Is there a service center that can be relied on? (I am
kinda guessing there isn't.) Are there any small electronics shops
that could revive mine, especially in the Cleveland area? Any
tips are greatly appreciated. At present, my Vectrex can produce
only a sad little dot in the center of the screen, and no sound.
Heck, anything would be an improvement.

				-John
-- 
Looking down the barrel of a loaded gun  |       John Kale          ''''
Just to see where the bullets come from! |   jwk3@po.cwru.edu       -o-o
        -Screaming Blue Messiahs         |                   ---UUU---U--UUU--
       STARING AT LIFE BUT SOMEHOW BELIEVING IN NOTHING -- David Bowie
Newsgroups: rec.games.vectrex
From: kmahan@nuc.Utah.univel.COM (Kurt Mahan)
Subject: Wanted : Used Vectrex(s)
Organization: Univel
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 01:19:18 GMT

Anybody know where I can buy a couple of used vectrex games at a decent
price?

Kurt Mahan
kmahan@univel.com
801-568-8528
From: bzandrew@amiganet.chi.il.us (Bill Zandrew)
Newsgroups: rec.games.vectrex
Subject: Wanted cartridges
Date: 23 Dec 92 23:29:40 CST
Organization: Amiga Network Information Systems

Gee, I am looking for Cartridges too!  If you have any you might want to sell
or trade leave me e-mail or call 1-708-386-2308
bill
From: mac@cis.ksu.edu (Myron A. Calhoun)
Newsgroups: rec.games.vectrex
Subject: Re: Tech. Reference Manuals
Date: 23 Dec 92 22:22:25 GMT
Organization: Kansas State University
Distribution: inet
NNTP-Posting-Host: depot.cis.ksu.edu

andyf@uk.sun.com (Andrew Fox - Sun UK - Answer centre) writes:
>I've just pulled the reference manuals from the archive....
>getting good quality printouts. I think that this is due to a problem with
>my tiff reader on the Sun.

>I desperately need this information, as ....

I've tried to respond several times, but mail to andyf@uk.sun.com
does not get through.  Please (try to) contact me via email and
maybe I can reply to that.
--Myron.
-- 
# We preserve our freedoms using four boxes:  soap, ballot, jury, and cartridge.
# Myron A. Calhoun, PhD EE; Assoc. Professor  (913) 539-4448 home
# INTERNET: mac@cis.ksu.edu (129.130.10.5)          532-6350 work, 532-7353 fax
#     UUCP: ...rutgers!depot!mac     Packet-BBS: W0PBV @ K0VAY.#NEKS.KS.USA.NAOM
From: andyf@uk.sun.com (Andrew Fox - Sun UK - Answer centre)
Newsgroups: rec.games.vectrex
Subject: Tech. Reference Manuals
Date: 22 Dec 92 09:23:58 GMT
Reply-To: andyf@uk.sun.com
Organization: Sun Microsystems Ltd.

Hi all,

I've just pulled the reference manuals from the archive, and am having difficulty
getting good quality printouts. I think that this is due to a problem with
my tiff reader on the Sun.

If anyone out there has converted them successfully to PostScript, could you please
e-mail or post details of where I can get them from.

The one postscript page on the archive, pg17.ps, is very good quality in
comparison to the same page in tiff format. I must assume that this is postscript
generated first hand from the original scans.

I desperately need this information, as I have just purchased two vectrex's and
neither of them work. I would really like to get these great games machines going
again.

Thanks in advance,

Andy.

+-----------------------------+----------------------------------------------+
| Andrew Fox,                 |     'Life, don't talk to me about life.'     |
| Product Support Engineer,   +----------------------------------------------+
| Sun Microsystems Inc.,      |  					     |
| Citygate, Sale,             | Disclaimer:These opinions are mine, assuming |
| Cheshire, M33 1JF,          |            I can remember what I've said.    |
| ENGLAND. +44 (0)61-905-4589 |                                              |
+-----------------------------+----------------------------------------------+

"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely
 foolproof was to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools."
                                            - Douglas Adams, "Mostly Harmless"




Newsgroups: rec.games.vectrex
From: kak1@birch02.cray.com (Kevin Kramer)
Subject: Start Castle WANTED!!!
Originator: kak1@birch02
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 22 Dec 92 14:22:21 CST


I know this is probably in vain but I have to try anyway.

I really must have Star Castle, does anyone have one to trade or
sell?  I will trade some games that I already have for the Vectrex
(I have 11)  or I can trade MSDOS games, TG16 games, or SNES games
hell...I would even trade my old NES with a few games (I forget how
many I have, around 15 or so) for just this one cart.  
If you have Star Castle and find that you don't play it PLEASE consider
my offer.

Thanks,
Kevin

Kevin.Kramer@cray.com
Newsgroups: rec.games.vectrex
From: ereddy@morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Ed Reddy)
Subject: I vave a Vectrex ... Do you want it?
Organization: Memorial University of Newfoundland
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 16:17:25 GMT


I have a mint Vectrex system with 12 games and a spare new joystick
controller.
 
I'll trade this 'perfect' system for a new (or very slightly used)
200+ mb IDE hard drive.
 
Ed.
ereddy@morgan.ucs.mun.ca
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
From: niekd@cs.kun.nl (Niek van Diepen)
Subject: Re: 9X9 Go
Organization: University of Nijmegen, The Netherlands
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 10:35:09 GMT

chapmand@chdasic.sps.mot.com (David Chapman) writes:
>I am curious about the advantages and disadvantages of playing 9x9 Go.
For disadvantages, see your second question.
The BIG advantage is in the time a game needs. Even a "lightning" game
on 19x19 takes over 15 minutes, which makes for a leisurely 9x9 pace.
Another main advantage is the reduction of the number of viable places
to play.
These two together make it ideal for teaching people the rules. And with
a proper handicap (versus me it's 4 stones on the 3-3 points) and some
kind guidance they might even have a shot at winning their first game.
Success gets people interested!
Another nice application is for a full tournament on an evening's play
at your club. One club I know of traditionally hosts a 9x9 tournament
after the Annual General Meeting.

>Would it enhance or degrade my performance on a 19x19 board.
The game tends to skip opening and middle game on a 9x9 board. So if
your endgame needs improvement, it will help to play on 9x9. But it
is also a serious risk: one loses contact with the "whole-board-view"
needed to "survive" the opening and early middle game. Playing on an
intermediate size board (13x13) solves the latter, but not the former.

Niek van Diepen, 3-dan
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
From: txt15@po.CWRU.Edu (Tao Tao)
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Subject: Re: Sino-Japan Meijin Match
Date: 21 Dec 1992 15:19:15 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc12.ins.cwru.edu


Ma Xiaochun defeated his Japanese opponent in the first of the 3 games.
This is the first time for the chinese meijin title holder to do so.  
The second game should already be over, anyone knows the results?

Tao
-- 
p
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
From: mdobbins@asns.tredydev.Unisys.COM (Michael Dobbins)
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Subject: Re: Help me "self-extract" PCIGC44Z.EXE
Date: 30 Dec 92 14:16:05 GMT
Organization: Unisys Corporation, Tredyffrin, PA

In article <92365.000051PEF2@psuvm.psu.edu> PEF2@psuvm.psu.edu (Per Fjelstad) writes:
>I introduced one possibly significant irregularity in transferring the file to
>my home computer.  I needed to reduce the record length to get VM's command
>"pctrans" to move the file.  I did this by running it through VM's simulations
>of the Unix "Compress" _and_ "Decompress" commands.  On the return "Decompress"
>operation, I choose an option that reduced the length of the records in the
>output file.  With this done, I was able to download the file to my PC.
>
>1.   Might I have distorted the file by sending it through that sequence?

This is the most likely source of your problem.  If the file is not
exactly the same sequence of bytes as the original when you run it you
will get unpredictable results.

>2.   Or was my original understanding wrong that I just needed to type the
>     filename, once the file was on my PC, to get a working program?

The file name was: pcigc44z.exe 
so you sould just type: pcigc44z

Did you ftp the file with 'binary' set?

If you use a ftpmail server you must request the file be uuencode(d) and
then uudecode it when it comes in. (you may also have to deal with
assembling multiple pieces before that).
Date: Thursday, 31 December 1992 16:30:22 PDT
X-Mailer: TMail version 1.13
From: "Anton Dovydaitis" <anton@infoserv.com>
Organization: Ishi Press International
Subject: Re: 1992 World Computer Go Championship
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Distribution: world

Having played several of the programs in question, I'd say that
`The Many Faces of GO' has the best interface and best overall
appearance.  I am 11-kyu, though weak tactically, and I can give
the current version 3 stones.  I am very familiar with the program,
being one of the main testers.  A good all-around program.  IBM PC.

Star of Poland has a clunky, ugly interface, and subjectively did not
feel any stronger than MFGO.  It is definitely not more than two stones
stronger, at best.  Very expensive, few features.  IBM PC.

NEMESIS may not play as well as some other programs, but it can explain
its analysis better than any other program.  The author, Bruce Wilcox,
is an excellent teacher, and NEMESIS shows this well.  Feature-rich, and
with lots of online tutorial material.  However, the interface leaves
something to be desired: it is complex and much of it is inobvious.
Also, I hear many complaints of bugs.  Probably 17 kyu.  For IBM under
DOS or Windows, Macintosh, and soon Amiga.

GO Intellect is possibly as much as two stones stronger than MFGO, but
the Smart GO Board interface is not acceptable as a commerical product.
You have to have an understanding of abstract data structures, not GO,
in order to work the program.  The interface is complicated and inobvious.
For the Macintosh.

Goliath 3 is about a stone and half stronger than MFGO.  The interface is
obvious and fairly adequate, but it is feature poor.  It just plays GO.
Testing the latest Beta version today, I lost giving it two stones, and
won by eight points taking Black with no komi.  I'm sure I can push it
down to two stones in a couple weeks.  Ishi Press will be distributing
Goliath 3 for the Macintosh starting in January or February.

I don't know anything about the Asian programs, but Goliath is being
advertised in Japan as being shodan.  I guess flattery will get you
anywhere.


================================================================
Anton Dovydaitis			Ishi Press International
anton@infoserv.com			76 Bonaventura Drive
408/944-9900 voice			San Jose, CA  95134
408/944-9110 FAX			U.S.A.
================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.games.go