HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ken@aiai.ed.ac.uk (Ken Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Heathrow to London (was: Any Britrail experts out there?)
Date: 20 Aug 92 21:56:14 GMT
Followup-To: rec.railroad
Organization: Bugs-R-Us

In article <1992Aug20.134314.26140@sq.sq.com> msb@sq.sq.com (Mark
Brader) writes:

#  Others have said that the Underground takes about 50 minutes (more or
#  less depending on where you're going) while the Airbus is more like 80
#  minutes.

True.  But you can't enjoy the ride.  Or, at least, I can't. 

#  The Underground [...] is not all that crowded outside of rush hours.

You and I will have to disagree about this.  I think the Underground is
cramped, threatening, understaffed and extremely unpleasant. 

#  Finally, the original poster wanted to get to Kings Cross, which can be
#  reached directly by Underground but not by Airbus. 

Kings Cross is a short walk, bus or taxi ride from Euston.  Still more
pleasant than the Underground, in my opinion. 

-- Ken "why should we put up with a transport system as grotty as the
        Underground anyway?" Johnson

-- 
////  Advice to dieters:          ////  Ken Johnson, A I Applications Institute
////    Never eat more than       ////       80 South Bridge, EDINBURGH EH1 1HN
////    you can carry.            ////                 E-mail ken@aiai.ed.ac.uk
////               -- Miss Piggy  ////     phone 031-650 2756  fax 031-650 6513
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: cal@ee.ryerson.ca (Calvin Henry-Cotnam)
Subject: Re: Signal/communication technology
Organization: Ryerson Polytechnical Institute, Toronto
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 03:25:28 GMT

In article <16i5uvINNdrc@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> haynes@cats.ucsc.edu (Jim Haynes) writes:
>
>        ... I noticed that
>there is no longer a pole line alongside the tracks.  So what are they
>using for signal communication these days?  Buried wire? Buried fiber?
>I also noticed some trackside equipment cabinets had poles with little
>Yagi antennas on the top, looked like maybe 1GHz frequency.  Is this
>using radio for signal communication?  Or cellular phone? Or something
>else?

Very often communication cables are now burried, but (at least here
in Canada) there is usually posts indicating the presence of underground
cables with "call before you dig" type reminders.

Although radio communcations may be used for other purposes, in many
cases here in Canada, hot-box/dragging equipment detectors "talk"
their findings via a radio channel and the trackside equipment cabinets
associated with this equipment has an antenna as you describe for
this purpose.


Calvin Henry-Cotnam, CATE            |    MY CANADA INCLUDES CANADIANS!
Ryerson Polytechnical Institute      | I would really like this to include
Toronto, Ontario, Canada             | Quebec - but I won't hold my breath.
From: bob@1776.COM (Robert Coe)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: SD70, Railfans & Spies
Date: 14 Aug 92 01:31:14 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: 1776 Enterprises, Sudbury MA

schumann@msus1.msus.edu writes:
> There's an interesting article in _The Wall Street Journal_ for 
> Wednesday, August 12, 1992, on page B6.  ...

[Description of incident in which a "railfan" from GE's locomotive works is
 caught "ogling" the prototypes of GM's new loco in a railyard in Ontario.]

Well, the incident is funny in its own right, but let's not overlook the un-
derlying message: it may speak well for the future of railroading if building 
locomotives is still profitable enough to justify industrial espionage.  :^)

   ___            _                                           -  Bob
   /__) _   /    / ) _   _
(_/__) (_)_(_)  (___(_)_(/_______________________________________ bob@1776.COM
Robert K. Coe ** 14 Churchill St, Sudbury, Massachusetts 01776 ** 508-443-3265
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: elw4@po.CWRU.Edu (Evan L. Werkema)
Subject: Re: Santa Fe Steam Special
Reply-To: elw4@po.CWRU.Edu (Evan L. Werkema)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 92 03:46:47 GMT


In a previous article, casey@bradley.bradley.edu (Chris Langston) says:

> I would like some information on the Santa Fe's steam powered employee
>excursion from L.A. to Chicago. Dose anyone have a schedual? Will they
>be stopping in Chillicothe to refule? (the old refuleing stop on the Santa
>Fe when they were running steam) Is the trip still on?

   Sorry this reply took so long, but I only got back to my computer yesterday.
From what I've heard, the trip is very much still on.  It will feature 3751 and
three of the new 800-class DASH 8-40CW's (I understand brand new 844 (as 
different from UP's 844) is to be one of them; Santa Fe management has a sick 
sense of humor sometimes)  I had a schedule published by the Santa Fe Modelers
Organization, and if memory serves, Chillicothe was refuel point.  
Unfortunately, I left the schedule at home when I left for college (3751 isn't
running to Cleveland) so I can't tell you the specific dates.  I know it was 
due through Belen, NM eastbound on August 31 and westbound on September 14, but
I don't recall much else.  Your best bet would be to find an SFMO member in 
your area and see if they have a timetable (it went out as a flyer in the SFMO
magazine _The Santa Fe Modeler_ with the second quarter '92 issue).  
Hope this helps.
-- 
 o__II___---__---__---___I~~|~______________    |~~~~~~|~~|~~~~~~| |~~~~~~|~~|
 _|______________________|__|_|     3000    `\  |      |  |      | |      |  |
/ o~~O-O-O-O-O~~O-O-O-O-O~~o~~~o-o-o~~~~o-o-o~~~~o--o~~~~~~~~o--o~~~o--o~~~~~~
Evan Werkema--------------------------------------------------elw4@po.cwru.edu
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: terryfry@access.digex.com (Terry Fry)
Subject: Re: My Amtrak Vacation
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, Maryland USA
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 23:16:12 GMT

In article <5632@transfer.stratus.com> btarbox@sw.stratus.com (Brian Tarbox) writes:
>Len Bachelder writes: 
>
>>Your experience provides yet another instance of the truth of the well-known
>>axiom, "Late trains get later".   This type of experience, though, in the
>>opinion of both the Mrs. and me, just adds to the "fun" of train travel, and
>>would in no way inhibit our desire to do it again!
>
>While this experience may be 'fun' for railfans, it just confirms the
>impression of Amtrak as not being a legitimate 'travel' alternative.  I'd
>take a steamboat ride for the adventure, once, and not again if the ride
>was uncomfortable, expensive, rude, and incrediably late...expecially if
>what I really wanted to do was get to some destination. 

Although I don't know your location, it sounds like its not in the Northeast.
As a railfan I would take a cross-country trip on Amtrak, but as a 
person who needs to get to downtown New York from Washington D.C.,
I take Amtrak.  That service is fantastic, its much more relaxed than
air travel, and I frequently get many things finished on board.

My next occasion will have me on the VRE from Manassas to Union Station
to New York.  And, not because I am a railfan, but because I am not
waiting on I-66 for two hours (this is just to get to METRO, not to
Union Station.)
From: rnewman@bbn.com (Ron Newman)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Cost of transit systems vs highways
Date: 18 Aug 92 19:19:09 GMT
Organization: Bolt, Beranek & Newman, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: spcsun25.bbn.com

In article <4704@bacon.IMSI.COM>, jordan@IMSI.COM (Jordan Hayes) writes:
|> David Lesher <wb8foz@skybridge.scl.cwru.edu> writes:
|> 
|> 	That was the case here, where Georgetown fought a pitched
|> 	battle against having a Metro stop anywhere nearby. So there is
|> 	none.  And because of that, there is NOWHERE, but nowhere, to
|> 	park in one of the most popular parts of the city for
|> 	nightlife.
|> 
|> Isn't Foggy Bottom/GWU (23rd/I NW) "close-ish" to Georgetown?

Not especially--it's got to be a good mile from there to
the "center" of Georgetown (Wisconsin and M, where the Metro
station should have been built!)

If anything, Rosslyn station (across the Potomac, in Virginia)
is closer.

-- 
Ron Newman		rnewman@bbn.com
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: casey@bradley.bradley.edu (Chris Langston)
Subject: Re: Driver clunk
Organization: Bradley University
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 14:46:28 GMT

In <1992Aug18.113122.89790@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au> che238n@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au writes:

>I would be interested yo know how long it is since 4449 and 2472 were
>overhauled.

 If my memory serves me correct. 4449 had some running gear work done in 1990,
But I don't think that was on the side rod bearings. The 2472 is a fresh   
rebuild, I think it was first steamed last fall or early this spring.


-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Unknown Indian Chief "Iron Horse bad medicine"                              -
- Unknown Army Scout   "What do you think is good medicine?"                  -
- Unknown Indian Chief "Milk of Magnesia"                                     -
- Chris Langston  casey@bradley.bradley.edu                                   -
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: cab@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (carl.a.benevit)
Subject: Operating READING T1 engines (was Bi-centennial steam engines?)
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 17:22:55 GMT

In article <1992Aug5.024616.4829@gw.wmich.edu> 31ochs@gw.wmich.edu writes:
>> wes@uf.msc.edu (Wes Barris) writes:
>>> In 1976, three different steam engines were used to pull the "Bi-Centennial"
>>> train across the United States.  Two of the engines were:
>>> 
>>> 2) Reading T-1 2101 now at the B&O Railroad Museum in Baltimore.
>>>    (this engine was in a roundhouse fire after the 1976 event)
>
>Don't forget it's brief 2 year stint as the Chessie Steam Special,
>honoring the 150th anniversary of B&O. It was decked out in Chessie
>System colors, and pulled 18-20 cars. It even came through my home town,
>but unfortunately, I didn't watch trains back then, and missed it.
>It was in a fire in 1978 or 79 I believe. I think the fire pretty much
>rendered it useless, so they cosmetically restored it and placed it in the
>B&O Museum, in the Freedom Train colors.
>
>Fred Ochs

To change the subject... since 2101 is a cosmetic exhibit now (and a NICE
one 8`)) that leaves only 2 T1's operating, one of which is the much
publicised 2102 at Hamburg PA on the Blue Mountain & Reading. The other
T1 is the 2100. The last time I saw anything on it was about 2 years
ago. It was made operational by the 2100 corporation and had some shake-
down runs to be done. I thought I heard that since then it had passed
to a new controlling body. Does anyone know what's new with the 2100?
I had hoped for a doubleheaded T1 excursion but at this point I'm not
holding my breath.
______________________________________________________________________________
 Opinions and commentary are personal and not those of AT&T and subsidiaries.
______________________________________________________________________________
Carl Benevit       -           att!cbnewsm!cab           -        215-439-7664
AT&T Bell Laboratories -              555 Union Boulevard, Allentown, PA 18103

                                                         |
                 ...be ready...                       ---|---    ACTS
                                                         |       1:11
                                                         |
______________________________________________________________________________
From: joshua@Veritas.COM (Joshua Levy)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad,ba.transportation,talk.politics.misc,talk.environment
Subject: Re: Cost of transit systems vs highways
Date: 14 Aug 92 15:31:51 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: VERITAS Software

In article <FP8DPB2w165w@1776.COM> bob@1776.COM (Robert Coe) writes:
>gary@ke4zv.uucp (Gary Coffman) writes:
>
>But weren't the freeways built first, when land values and construction costs
>were lower?  

No.  Trains, still a common transit system predated cars.  In New York City,
the subway was built in the late 1800s or very early 1900s; before cars were
a big deal.

It is quite the opposit.  Mass transit had a huge head start in terms of 
time and subsidy, but personal transit (ie. cars) are so much better that
they overcame this head start.  Remember, that trains were subsidized 32
square miles of land for each mile of track they built.  The biggest 
transportation subsidy ever!

>Well, that's a fair criticism, but it should be levelled against the MARTA
>planners, not against public transit generally.  There's certainly no reason
>in principle why transit systems can't go where the people want to go.  

People want to to to homes, buisnesses, and public places, but mass transit
can only go to train stations (or maybe bus stops, but busses are slower
than cars, polute almost as much, and so on..)  Since trains can only go
to train stations, which almost no one wants as their end point, a train
based transportation system can never to were people want to go.

Joshua Levy  (joshua@veritas.com)
From: larsenp@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Paul Larsen)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: UP hog train
Date: 17 Aug 92 17:18:18 GMT
Distribution: na

While returning from a vacation in Colorado, I decided to stop in Big Springs
Nebraska for a little lunch next to the UP main.  About 10 minutes later,
coming at speeds approaching Amtrak (I think, seeing that I didn't have my 
handy dandy radar gun) a UP train being pulled by 2 wide cabs blew through.
The interesting thing about this train was that it was a mixed pig train.
It had its obligatory piggyback cars but it also had some other interesting
cars.  Just behind the engines were probably 6-8 green cars labelled HOGX
each with a ton of live hogs obviously going to market.  I was wondering 
a  few things about this.


       First- Is this a common sight on the UP and if so are stock cars making
       a comeback?

       Second- Why is UP still bothering with this type of traffic?  Don't they
       have to water the pigs every so often?        

       Third- Where does this traffic originate from and go to?  I would assume
       that it is long haul because trucks could more easily carry short haul
       stuff.

       Fourth- Was the train going so fast because of the pigs or is this the
       normal speed limit on the UP in Nebraska?

       Finally- Just an observation- If I were going to be turned into bacon
       I think that going by train would be pretty cool instead of going by
       truck!




       Paul Larsen
       larsenp@mace.cc.purdue.edu
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: gregg@pinot.zehntel.com (Gregg Fuhriman)
Subject: Re:  High Speed Rail in Southern California
Reply-To: gregg@pinot.UUCP (Gregg Fuhriman)
Organization: Zehntel, Inc. Walnut Creek, CA
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 19:21:21 GMT

In article <4718@bacon.IMSI.COM> jordan@IMSI.COM (Jordan Hayes) writes:

		stuff deleted

>Travelling due west for about 20 miles, you get to the small town of
>Tehachapi (still with me?).  The track then follows CA/58 for about 12
>miles and just pas the smaller town of Marcel, the track *does a
>circle*, I presume to make it up some weird grade.  Then it does a flat
>S and shimmies it's way northwest.  It doubles back on itself several
>times past Bear Mtn., and has one more big difficulty right at Caliente
>until it can finally make a bee-line to Bakersfield, at Kern Junction.
>
>Whew!  Does anyone know what this particular stretch of roadbed
>looks like?
>

Yes.  It looks like TEHACHAPI LOOP.  You must have at least heard about
this landmark of western railroading ?!?

  The trackage from Mojave to Bakersfield crosses the Tehachapi Mountains.
It is owned by Southern Pacific, who shares it with Santa Fe, making this
one of the best train chasing areas in the West.  It it very twisty, lots
of tunnels with some fairly stiff grades.  Amtrak does not run trains over
this pass.  The San Joaquin trains run from the Bay Area to Bakersfield,
and busses are used to connect to L.A.  The Coast Starlight train runs
from Bay Area to L.A. using SP's coast route (through San Luis Obispo).

Theoretically, passenger trains could use this route, but it would cause
big headaches for the freight operators.  Often there are "train-jams"
as it is, and working around passenger train schedules would certainly
not help this situation.

					Gregg Fuhriman
Newsgroups: rec.railroad,dc.general
From: chuckm@wam.umd.edu (Test)
Subject: DC Metro and RFK Concert
Keywords: metro RFK U2 weekend Aug.15-16
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park
Distribution: dc
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 13:39:54 GMT

I heard on WTOP this morning that Metro is *not* going to
run any extra trains or extra hours for this weekends U2
concert at RFK.  There will be at least 50,000 concert goers
each night at the stadium.  The concert is scheduled to
end at 11:30pm and Metro plans to close at midnight.  Again,
they are not planning on running *any* extra trains for
this event.

Does anyone have any additional information about this?

Chuck      chuckm@wam.umd.edu
From: eoliver@laurel.ocs.mq.edu.au (Eddie Oliver)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Note on Newport News Wreck
Date: 19 Aug 92 08:47:31 GMT
Organization: Macquarie University, Australia.


Some recent postings have suggested that it is possible in US/Canadian power
signalling areas for a switch to be moved after the train has passed the
protecting signal.

In every safeworking system I know, the releasing arrangements for switches
in power-signalling areas are arranged so that you cannot move the switches
indiscriminately in such a manner. The occupancy of the relevant track 
circuits will prevent the switches from being released, typically until
some conditions are specifically tested to ensure safety (e.g. until a
short approach track has been occupied for some sufficient time period).

What am I missing? Is such a precaution not provided in US/Canadian
installations? Or are we talking about non-power-signalled areas, in
which case the aspect of the previous signal seems substantially
irrelevant????

Eddie Oliver
From: faigin@aero.org (Daniel P. Faigin)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Top Ten Shrines of Western Railroading ( Was: Re: Tehachapi)
Date: 21 Aug 92 15:21:03 GMT
	<1992Aug20.210007.15175@ecsvax.uncecs.edu>
	<1992Aug20.180502.1@amazon.llnl.gov>
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA

On 21 Aug 92 02:05:02 GMT, teruya@amazon.llnl.gov said:
>      I don't know if I can come up with eight, but I can nominate a few.

>              Keddie Wye, Feather River Canyon, Union Pacific
>              California State Railroad Museum, Sacramento
>              Cajon Pass, Southern Pacific-Santa Fe-Union Pacific

I'd like to nominate the Orange Empire Rwy Museum, which is the largest
operating rwy museum on the west coast, and includes both mainline and
electric (trolley) trains. This is definately a shrine if you're into Los
Angeles's transit history (rail, PE, and LARy).

Daniel
--
[W]:The Aerospace Corp. M1/055 * POB 92957 * LA, CA 90009-2957 * 310/336-8228
[Email]:faigin@aerospace.aero.org              [Vmail]:310/336-5454 Box#13149
   "You can't be a rationalist in an irrational world. It isn't rational!"
	       Dr. Rance, in Joe Orton's "What the Butler Saw"
From: ggg9y@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Garth G. Groff)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: UP hog train
Date: 18 Aug 92 12:32:20 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Virginia

RE: UP STOCK TRAIN

Yes, the U.P. makes money on this traffic.  The pig cars
originate somewhere in Nebraska and run to Los Angeles.
They are destined for the Farmer John's plant in South LA.
(That's the one with the huge pig heaven murals that is 
marked on the tourist maps--the whole building is covered
with them).  Pigs do not have to be rested as often as 
cattle.  I believe they do have to be hosed down in Las
Vegas (done by an automatic sprinkler).  Anyway, this is 
supposed to be the last regular stock movement in the U.S.
It was covered in TRAINS a few years back with a feature
article.
~S
--
Garth (Haridas) Groff
"Not yet famous author"
ggg9y@poe.acc.virginia.EDU         Chant "Govinda Bohlo Hare"
From: mwilson@ncratl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM (Mark Wilson)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Cost of transit systems vs highways
Date: 14 Aug 92 17:36:15 GMT
Organization: NCR Engineering and Manufacturing Atlanta -- Atlanta, GA

In <4687@bacon.IMSI.COM> jordan@IMSI.COM (Jordan Hayes) writes:

>This is a typical short-sighted response to transit -- "It will make it
>easy for (insert member of community most feared by community) to get
>to our homes" ... usually this means "racial minority" or "poor
>would-be theives" and at a macro level, this is even what has stopped

This sounds like the typical pro-transit response to those who don't
want mass transit.  "It's just those racist rednecks again."

Isn't it possible that the people who vote against it, consider to
be a boondoggle.  A massive make work program for public employees.

Before the flame level gets too high, I personally voted in favor
of MARTA the last time it came up.  I didn't live here the first time
around.  MARTA lost by approximately 70% - 30%.  A whole lot of people
did not buy into your arguments.  After having watched MARTA over the
last two years I have come to regret my vote.  I am glad that MARTA lost.
Time and time again, they have raised their fares and cut their service.
Meanwhile evertime the union contract comes up for renewal, the workers
are assured of nice fat raises.  If MARTA were to be privatized I might
change my mind.  If MARTA were to be changed so that it could survive
without massive public subsidies, I would change my mind.

BTW, I do favor trying to join up with Cobb counties transit system.
That system is 100% private, no public monies are involved.
Between CObb and Gwinett the system would be about half the size of
MARTA.

>	MARTA will eventually move into Cobb, Gwinnett, and other
>	Atlanta counties, but it won't be easy.  It may take another
>	fuel crisis, or some other cathartic event .... but eventually
>	it will happen.

>Sounds to me like the "event" will be the deaths of all the scared
>people in Gwinnett County ...

More likely it will come from some kind of economic terrorism on the
part of the state of the Feds.

>/jordan
-- 
--Mark

Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: steven@luna.rivm.nl (Steven van Uitert)
Subject: Re: Rail Access to Airports
Organization: Rijksinstituut voor Volksgezondheid en Milieuhygiene,Bilthoven,NL
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 09:58:14 GMT

In article <3349@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> warrenc@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Cherie Warren) writes:
	|
	|
>Amsterdam: Schiphol Airport
>           Train station connected via passageway to airport; direct
>	   connections to Centraal Station in city centre, or RAI in
>	   southern part of the city.
	|
	|
From Schiphol Airport there are also trains to Rotterdam and the Hague.
Even Leeuwarden, Groningen and Enschede have direct connections.
Summer 1993 there will be also a connection to Utrecht via Amsterdam RAI.
As the number of passengers still increases, the rail capacity is
increased also, more tracks, more trains, directions.

Steven van Uitert
Newsgroups: rec.railroad