HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pugh@pico.math.ucla.edu (David Pugh)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: #1 Brahms & Wagner #2 Brahms & Rachmaninov
Date: 16 Nov 92 19:20:37 GMT
Organization: UCLA Mathematics Department

In article <5THauB3w165w@student.business.uwo.ca> r4smith@student.business.uwo.ca (Richard Smith) writes:

>#2: to whoever back there said that Brahms's piano writing isn't as
>sophisticated as Rachmaninov (do you really mean this???) What do you
>mean by sophistication? The piano concertos of Rachmaninov (and
>Tchaikowsky and their ilk) are exercises in overblown redundancy. The
>compositional power of these works is puny compared with the glories 
>of Beethoven, Mozart & Brahms
>
Yes I did mean it. I am a pianist who loves Rachmaninov, Prokofiev, Scriabin,
Debussy, Ravel AND BRAHMS. I still and always will maintain that the piano
writing of Brahms is less sophisticated than those other composers. (I was
refering to piano CONCERTOS altho' I'm sure the same applies to other
piano pieces). What do I mean by sophisticated? Well variety of piano
writing, coloring, resonance, timbre, etc, etc.

Debussy and Scriabin had a fantastic ear for producing sounds from a piano
that Brahms could never even dream of. I'm talking overtones etc.

Brahms could never have written anything like the cadenza of Prokofiev's
2nd piano concerto - a staggeringly difficult and impressive piece of
piano writing.

To describe the piano concertos of Rachmaninov and Tschaikovsky (I rather
resent you putting both of them in the same sentence) as "exercises
in overblown redundancy" is complete GARBAGE ! Obviously you don't like
these Russian composers. Fair enough. I don't like Haydn or early Mozart.
However, let me assure you that Rach. P.C. 3 is one of the most profound
and expertly written piano concertos there are displaying his complete
mastery of the musical possibilities of the piano.

By the way, I was not refering to the MUSIC but the way the MUSIC IS
WRITTEN FOR THE PIANO. Some (a small portion) of Brahm's piano concerto
is a little crude pianistically as is Beethoven. (Grieg's P.C. is the worst
in this respect). This is not true of Mozart.

David

--
|-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|
   David Pugh,  UCLA,  CA         |     Hot Dog, Jumping Frog
   pugh@math.ucla.edu             |     Albuquerque  -  Prefab Sprout
|-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: hsmoliar+@cs.cmu.edu (Harold Smoliar)
Subject: Re: Blomstedt announces 1995 retirement from SF Symphony
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 18:58:05 GMT

In article <01CTB7HP@cc.swarthmore.edu> rbrooks1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Rob Brooks) writes:
>In article <1992Nov18.182731.14066@visual.com>, rwh@visual.com (Rob Holzel)
>writes:
>> 
>> A friend of mine from SF says that Blomstedt will be leaving the SF
>> Symphony in 1995.  Insider track on his possible successor:
>> Andre Previn.
>> 
>
>Andre Previn back in California?  My, that would be surprising news.  I
>thought he'd had enough of the place when he left the LA Phil.  Speaking of
>Previn, has he been doing much conducting recently?
>
He'll be with us the second week of December and I know that he has been
doing quite a bit with the Orchestra of St. Lukes as well as spending some
time with the orchestra of the Curtis Institute of Music.

Harold Smoliar
English horn, Pittsburgh Symphony
Piano, Symphony Jazz Quartet
hsmoliar@db1.speech.cs.cmu.edu
From: barry.copeland@synapse.org (Barry Copeland) 
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Adagio for Strings
Date: 16 Nov 92 06:30:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: SYNAPSE BBS - GATINEAU, QUEBEC - 819-561-4321
Reply-To: barry.copeland@synapse.org (Barry Copeland) 

To: rec.music.classical
From: barry.copeland@synapse.org

EM> Hi. Does anyone know who wrote Adagio for Strings?

Samuel Barber.  Many excellent recordings available.

Barry

---
 . ACCESS/MAIL 1.01. #00019 . From Nepean, Ontario
Organization: University of Maine System
Date: Friday, 20 Nov 1992 17:27:28 EST
From: <IO21145@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: mozart/handel - messiah

I was wondering if anyone has ever seen references to a
revison of the "Messiah" by W.A. Mozart?
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 23:35:59 -0500 
From: Michel Fougeres <mf0w+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Marc Blitzstein

Excerpts from netnews.rec.music.classical: 16-Nov-92 Re: Marc Blitzstein
by Hal Prentice@radio.wkar. 
>From: hal@radio.wkar.msu.edu (Hal Prentice)
>Subject: Re: Marc Blitzstein
>Date: 16 Nov 92 15:01:15 GMT
> 
>In article <Bxpo1w.Dtu@acsu.buffalo.edu> ptyaxel@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Seymou
>r Axelrod) writes:
>>From: ptyaxel@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Seymour Axelrod)
>>Subject: Marc Blitzstein
>>Date: 14 Nov 92 14:54:00 GMT
>>
>>       Marc Blitzstein was a composer-lyricist back in the l930s-'50s.  He 
>>wrote a couple of operas with a left-wing slant, e..g., "The Cradle Will 
>>Rock", and also an opera ("Regina") based on Lillian Hellman's "The Little 
>>Foxes."  
[rest deleted]

I heard the premie`re of REGINA at the "Jewish Y" in NYC shortly after
my arrival in the US.  It was not that great at all but the critics
praised it very high -- I was told at the time that the critics had been
paid off because "some people" wanted Blitzstein "to succeed at all
costs"...

=== mf
From: jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Jonathan Harvey (Re: humming Stockhausen)
Date: 21 Nov 92 18:31:32 GMT
Organization: Boston University Physics Department

In article <RZekuB3w165w@student.business.uwo.ca> r4smith@student.business.uwo.ca (Richard Smith) writes:
>Hey, I hum Stockhausen all the time.

>I also happen to think that Gesang der Junglinge is one of the giant 
>works of Western music.

Ditto. If you like this you should try (presuming you haven't already)
Jonathan Harvey's _Mortuos Plongo, Vivos Voco_ (1980). Quite the
companion piece IHMO. It is available on Wergo's "Computer Music
Currents 5". 

Gregg


-- 
Gregg Jaeger (jaeger@buphy)  Dept. of Physics (and Philosophy), Boston Univ.
"You see, the quantum mechanical description is in terms of knowledge" -Peierls
"One can _not_ put the psi-function... in place of the... thing" -Schroedinger
                "You may _not_ touch my monkey" -Dieter
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: ted@dgbt.doc.ca (Ted Grusec)
Subject: Re: Why not a rec.music.contemp group?
Organization: The Communications Research Centre
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 22:55:12 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.161723.12482@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu> velde2@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Francois Velde) writes:
>Why not indeed? After all, early-musickers have been segregated 
>into rec.music.early.  Am I the only one who has little interest
>in contemporary music (say, post-1945), and who is at wits' end
>to devise an appropriate kill file? Next to /excalibur/j
>and /haikovsk/j, I already have /cage/j, /4'33''/j, /glass/j, /berio/j, 
>etc, but the kill file is getting long and involved, and netters are 
>always coming up with stealth subject lines.
>
>No offense intended, this is a naive, non-partisan question.
>
Just so you don't stay too insular, I suggest we who are interested in
post-1945 music should use the name "Brahms" in the titles of our
posts. 8-).  Please, let us not splinter ourselves into tiny
subgroups. It takes me all of about 20 secs to scan post titles and
read only those I want.  There are many of us who are interested in
both pre- and post-1945.
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Ted Grusec - Communications Research Centre, Ottawa, Ont., Canada
From: bryan@netcom.com (Bryan Higgins)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Soler sonatas: reccomendations?
Date: 19 Nov 92 02:36:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: netcom.1992Nov19.023600.13295
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

basinski@biosci.arizona.edu (Mark Basinski) writes:

>I noticed that Alicia de Larrocha is playing a couple Soler things on here
>upcoming NYC performances, so perhaps she might record them soon? if she
>hasn't already?

There was an old Vox LP of Soler sonatas by de Larrocha that was great.
For some reason they've chosen not to reissue it.
-- 
Bryan Higgins, Berkeley, California  (bryan@netcom.com)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: smoliar@argon.iss.nus.sg (Stephen Smoliar)
Subject: Re: Cage's 4'33"
Reply-To: smoliar@iss.nus.sg (Stephen Smoliar)
Organization: Institute of Systems Science, NUS, Singapore
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 10:55:26 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.174251.12543@midway.uchicago.edu>
rons@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>
>	The other interesting thing about the Hat disk, is that the
>five other "timed" pieces, 45' for a speaker, 29'X.YYYYY" for a piano,
>(I can't remember the numbers), another piano pice, a percussion
>piece, and a string piece, are all done at the same time. If it was
>anything but Cage, I would say that they were being cheap with space,
>but it does and a new dimension to all of the works (as if that is
>what they need).
>
This is the same principle behind events Cage used to stage under the name
"musicircus."  The basic principle is that several performances go on
concurrently, and the program for the audience consists of a schedule
of what happens where and when.  I attended two of these in Los Angeles
in September of 1987 in celebration of Cage's 75th birthday.  The first
involved none of his own music, and the second consisted entirely of his
compositions.  I think they are a wonderful idea for concerts, and I hope
the idea will not die with Cage.
-- 
Stephen W. Smoliar; Institute of Systems Science
National University of Singapore; Heng Mui Keng Terrace
Kent Ridge, SINGAPORE 0511
Internet:  smoliar@iss.nus.sg
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: smalin@well.sf.ca.us (Stephen Malinowski)
Subject: Re: Considering 4'33''
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 07:10:32 GMT

In <1D9cuB2w165w@sys6626.bison.mb.ca> kevin@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Kevin Scott) writes:

> 
>Why would anyone issue a RECORDING of this?  It would seem that it should 
>exist in performance only.
> 
>As long as the performer enjoys himself...
> 
>KS
I have a recording of 4'33" that I really like.  However, they're
playing another piece (something by Brahms) at the same time.

 :-)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: jtwarden@rpi.edu (Joseph Warden)
Subject: A Bach FAQ(Was: Question on Bach's 'Jesu, Joy of Man's Desiring'...)
Followup-To: rec.music.classical
Organization: Chemistry
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 21:59:42 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.223656.22708@sarah.albany.edu>, ss6349@tyr.albany.edu
(Steven H. Schimmrich) wrote:
> 
> 
>    I have a few simple questions about the piece 'Jesu, Joy of Man's
> Desiring' by J. S. Bach.
> 

Periodically there are questions similar to the "quote" above in
reference to the work, era and discography of J.S. Bach and his
offspring. Often these questions seem to mirror the major events
in the liturgical calendar. Would a Bach FAQ be useful?

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Joseph Warden
Department of Chemistry
Rensselaer
Troy, NY 12180-3590
EMail: wardej@rpi.edu or userhay3@rpitsmts (BITNET)
Tel: (518)276-8482
---------------------------------------------------------------------
From: zorro@picasso.ocis.temple.edu (John Grabowski)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Krips's Beethoven symphony cycle
Date: 19 Nov 92 01:39:24 GMT
Organization: Temple University
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

Christopher Colby (acid+@cs.cmu.edu) wrote:
: Yesterday, I saw a Beethoven symphony cycle by Krips and the London SO in a
: store for $12.88 new (some weird label).  I already have a few cycles and
: don't feel that I need another one right away, but this price seems
: ridiculously low, especially given recognizable performers.  I found
: nothing in the Penguin or Stevenson guides last night.
: 
: Can anybody say anything about Krips's views on Beethoven?  I'll probably
: buy it and find out for myself, but I thought I'd check the net wisdom
: first.
: 
: -chris

Holy cow!  That still around???  I bought it in the late 70s, and I didn't 
have my current ears then (in other words, I was just getting into classical 
music; still, Beethoven was and is my favorite, and I knew him pretty well
even then).  But I *do* remember 1) bad sound (uneven from disc to disc) and 
2) lots and lots o' tape hiss.

Was the label Murray Hill?  If so, bad pressings to boot.

I recall the 9th being done with British singers who had a distinctly 
British sound to their "German," so that it may be called "Vaughn Williams
9th."   ;-)

The Eighth was pretty spunky.  The 5th was solid.

That's about all I remember.  I returned it, because the sound and pressings 
were sad.  (I obtained my copy through mail order.)

Overall, I'd not recommend you get it unless you are into collecting 
curiosities, like the all-Spanish cast of My Fair Lady.  (One of my 
favorites!)  As far as I know, the cycle has no special historical value,
either (like Toscanini's for example), other than its being "old."


John
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: pajerek@telstar.kodak.com (Don Pajerek)
Subject: Re: El Salon Mexico
Reply-To: pajerek@kadsma.kodak.com (Don Pajerek)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corp. - Telstar
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 20:53:01 GMT

In article <BxtIC4.7q9.1@cs.cmu.edu> hsmoliar+@cs.cmu.edu (Harold Smoliar) writes:
>In article <1992Nov14.011355.17747@bnlux1.bnl.gov> schroede@bnlux1.bnl.gov (gary l. schroeder) writes:
>>
>>This may be a silly reason to post, but... I recently piked up some
>>amazing recordings that simply blew my socks off.
>[stuff deleted]
>
>>Secondly, how about the Prokofiev piano concertos conducted by Neeme
>>Jarvi on Chandos?                                 ^^^^^^^^^
>
>But who played the piano????????????
>
>
>
>Harold Smoliar
>English horn, Pittsburgh Symphony
>Piano, Symphony Jazz Quartet


Horacio Gutierrez.


Don Pajerek

Standard disclaimers apply.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: r4smith@student.business.uwo.ca (Richard Smith)
Subject: About that header...
Organization: University of Western Ontario
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 22:15:45 GMT

I wrote the header Re: #1 Brahms & Wagner #2 Brahms & Rachmaninov but the 
subject was about exactly that. How it became what it became is a mystery 
to me. 

r4smith@student.business.uwo.ca (Richard Smith)
Western Business School  --  London, Ontario
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: notation of accidentals [?]
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 02:18:46 GMT

In article <1992Nov19.003701.15474@news.cs.brandeis.edu> jacob@max.cc.brandeis.edu ( ) writes:
>Another matter of historical curiosity...

>I've always considered the notation of accidentals
>in the presence of a clef signature was unnatural...

>The natural notation should be (to me) _relative_
>to the accidental at the clef, that is if the note
>is # at the clef then # --> x, natural --> # and
>b --> natural, if the note is b at the clef then
># --> natural, natural --> flat and b --> bb, and
>so on...

There's a certain logic to that idea, but it also means that you have
to read each note in light of what's gone before.  REmember that 
accidentals are also used to cancel naturals.

>Besides being unnatural, the common notation also
>makes fast transposition a bit more awkward.

I'm not sure about that, given the cancellation function.

>Am I the only one to think so? If not, does anyone
>have an explanation as to  why a seemingly unnatural
>notation was adopted?

The accidentals # and b (natural is a very recent invention) were
originally solmization instructions.  b meant "this is 'fa'"; #
meant "this is mi."  In other words, one raised a note by giving it
a sharp because that meant one had to sing the note above it as fa,
and mi-fa is a half-step.

b and # worked differently.  b tended to remain in force, whereas #
was only applied locally.  A b might become a key-sig on the fly,
or rather a hexachord signature.  (the position of fa tells you which
hexachord to use.)

Because singers knew the hexachord system, and knew not to sing tritones
and other weird intervals without explicit markings, few accidentals 
were needed.  In fact, one of the most remarkable pieces of the 16thC
-- Willaert's "chromatic duo," Quidnam ebrietas, has but one flat in
its tenor.  However, one has to add flats on the fly in order to avoid
singing corrupt fourths and fifths, and one has to keep them, too! 
The piece winds up on a written E that is sung Ebb.  Imagine using your
system in a piece like that!  An accidental would have to be interpreted
in light of all the music that had gone by so far.

History happens...

Roger
>
>Thanks for any input
>Jacob
From: charliem@ruby.sps.mot.com (Charlie Mayne)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: A Query
Date: 19 Nov 92 17:21:42 GMT
Article-I.D.: oakhill.1992Nov19.172142.653
Organization: Motorola RISC Software, Austin, TX

>>I would like to buy my father a CD of "Pictures at an Exhibition" ...
 
>It's a piano piece by Mussorgsky.  There are various orchestrations
>available.  By far the most popular incarnation is the Ravel orchestration, ...
 
If you are looking for the Ravel orchestration, the Chicago SO with Solti is
a very good choice.  The way Adolf Herseth (sp?) plays the solo trumpet parts
is reason enough to check this recording out.  You should be informed that I 
play trumpet, which affects (among other things) my choice of orchestra.

Ravel gave us trumpet players a great gift in his orchestration.

If you want the details on the recording, I can get them from home.  It was
recorded at least ten years ago.
From: gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Question on Bach's 'Jesu, Joy of Man's Desiring'...
Keywords: J. S. Bach
Date: 17 Nov 92 03:41:37 GMT
Reply-To: gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener)
Organization: Columbia University

In article <1992Nov16.223656.22708@sarah.albany.edu> ss6349@tyr.albany.edu (Steven H. Schimmrich) writes:
>
>   I have a few simple questions about the piece 'Jesu, Joy of Man's
>Desiring' by J. S. Bach.
>
>   1. What is the title in German?

Nifty little chorale prelude, eh?  Anyway, the German title is "Jesus
bleibet meine Freude" and it's from Cantata 147.  There's a brand new
Gardiner recording of BWV 140 & 147 on Archiv, in case anyone hadn't
heard.

>   2. What year was it written?

1716, if I recall correctly.

>   3. Where can I read more about the piece?

Hm?  What in particular do you wish to know about it?  There are plenty
of good Bach books around...

>   I tried the University library here and checked a dozen books on Bach and
>NONE of them had this piece listed in their index!  I had thought it was a 
>cantata but I couldn't find it in lists of the cantatas.  Is it a section
>from a larger work?  Thanks.

The title of the cantata from which it is drawn is "Herz und Mund und Tat
und Leben" <sp?>, and as I said, it's BWV 147.  You should be able to look
it up with that info.


--
Gabe Wiener - Columbia Univ.     "This 'telephone' has too many shortcomings 
gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu       to be seriously considered as a means of 
N2GPZ in ham radio circles        communication. The device is inherently of
72355,1226 on CI$                 no value to us." -Western Union memo, 1877
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: Mike_Quigley@mindlink.bc.ca (Mike Quigley)
Subject: Re: Advice on Prokofiev piano sonatas?
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 18:21:47 GMT

> MHUGHES@MIAMIU.BITNET writes:
>
> Msg-ID: <92322.110947MHUGHES@MIAMIU.BITNET>
> Posted: Tuesday, 17 Nov 1992 11:
>
> Org.  : Miami University - Academic Computer Service
>
> I want some advice on Prokofiev piano sonatas on two fronts:1. Of all the
> sonatas, which are the 3 or 4 most popular or most worthy
>     of note in the repetoire?
>  2. Which are the most respected/recommended recordings?
>
> Thanks, Mike Hughes


I like Glenn Gould's rendition of the Sonata No. 7, which I think is one of
the more "famous". Unfortunately, it is only available in a 3-CD set, part of
the Glenn Gould Legacy series.

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: kos@cunyvms1.gc.cuny.edu (Bob Kosovsky)
Subject: Glass takes on Buechner
Reply-To: kos@cunyvms1.gc.cuny.edu
Organization: Computer Center, CUNY Graduate School, New York NY 10036
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 16:30:38 GMT

Straight from the NY Times of Nov. 22, 1992, sec. 2, page 2:

The New York Shakespeare Festival Presents

WOYZECK
By Georg Buechner
Directed by JoAnne Akalaitis

.......
Original Music by Philip Glass
Lyrics by Paul Schmidt
[other credits deleted]

Starts Monday [Nov. 23, presumably] / Opens Dec. 6
The Joseph Papp Public Theater
425 Lafayette Street

Lest this transcription confuse people, it seems that what is being presented
is the play, with 'incidental' music by Glass, rather than something where
music plays a more prominent role.


Bob Kosovsky
Graduate Center -- Ph.D. Program in Music(student)/ City University of New York
New York Public Library -- Music Division
bitnet:   kos@cunyvms1.bitnet        internet: kos@cunyvms1.gc.cuny.edu
Disclaimer:  My opinions do not necessarily represent those of my institutions.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: bkruem@ciba-geigy.ch (Michael Krueger)
Subject: Re: Can you name these tunes?
Organization: Ciba-Geigy Ltd., Basel, Switzerland
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 07:35:32 GMT

In article <1992Nov10.110459.1708@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu> mchenry@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu writes:
>In article <1992Nov5.223033.17025@shell.shell.com>, pace@rook (Stephen O. Pace) writes:
>
>The work you mention is a small excerpt from Romeo and Juliet, the ballet 
>music by Prokofiev. It is from the small portion called Montagues and 
>Capulets. It was also recently used on another commercial, by Nike, with 
>David Robinson. I don't recall which, if any, of the three suites that 
>Prokofiev made from this material contains this excerpt.

It's the opening of the 2nd concert suite. I believe, ELP have recently
produced their "version" of Montagues et Capulets. Horrible.

>Bill McHenry                   |Those who do not hear the past works

Michael Krueger

Ciba-Geigy, Textile Dyestuffs, Basel, Switzerland
email:    bkruem@ciba-geigy.ch