From: clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu)
Subject: Re: Sign of the times
Organization: Nynex Science and Technology
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 20:15:05 GMT

In article <1gqav1INNidh@gap.caltech.edu> floom@cco.caltech.edu (Laura E. Floom) writes:
>
>I am glad to hear your husband does help out around the house, but you must
>forgive the net for assuming he doesnt. I cant count how many times you have
>posted on misc.kids complaining about your husband. You make him sound like
>a particulary horrible person. I know I am not the only person on misc.kids
>who wonders why you stay with him if he is as bad as you say, and if he isnt
>as bad as you say, why are you being so disloyal.

  I can.  He doesn't change poopy diapers counts as one, even though
  I posted about it twice.  It seems to bother people that there are
  husbands that don't change poopy diapers.  Maybe they don't want
  theirs to "get any ideas".  :-)

  Another time, I was worried about a business trip and wondering
  if my son would miss me.  So someone asked, "Maybe your husband
  can spend more time playing with him."  And I said, "Well he
  can't because he as to study and work."  Then some people went into
  "horrible person" mode accusing him of putting work ahead of
  his kid.  So I had to explain that his work was 12-hour shifts
  in the Emergency Room (Level-I Trauma Center) from 9:00 a.m. to
  9:00 p.m. (meaning he doesn't get home by 10:00 p.m.)

  Let's see, there's the flu shots, the blood drawing, bassinet,
  Santa Cruz questions, exercise, questions...  Do these count
  as complaints against a "horrible person"???
>
>I have noticed a pattern from you. You write a post complaining about your
>husband, inlaws, or life in general. People feel bad for you, and post 
>something in response. YOu complain because they didnt take into consideration
>other facts. Of course these facts werent in your original posting, so how
>could people know about it? 

  Never said that the blood-drawing wasn't that bad...  Thanks to all
  the people who replied, I now have the guts to tell my midwife that
  I refuse to let M. draw my blood.  I already practiced on another
  midwife... (I mean asking, not drawing her blood!)

  Besides, M. is really a nice nurse.  She even said "hi" to me when I
  saw her at the mall, and asked about my son, so there!  I guess I
  forgot to include that in the original posting.
>
>
>My guess is that you would like to use the net to complain about your husband,
>but would rather that none of us respond. If that is the case, please put
>a warning at the top of your post, and we can all ignore it. Personally, I
>find all the complaining a bit hard to take, especially when you follow up 
>with an explanation that he isnt that bad.

  I would rather have people tell me what they did in certain situations,
  not immediately jump to "horrible person" mode.  If my in-laws force-fed
  my son, so that he won't eat with me, then I want to know what I should
  do to get him to eat (or allow him to decide to eat himself), not have
  people jump all over them for "child abuse", which doesn't help me.

  I've decided against posting anything about toilet training because
  people will probably go off on how my in-laws want to keep him a baby
  longer.  So I'll just do it myself (on the weekends), with no help
  from the other parents on the net, to share their experiences with me.  :-(
 
>Laura Floom
> 
  I even got "flamed" when I responded to another poster's question about
  in-laws who wanted their daughter to start math training at age 15 months.
  Never mind that I don't have a daughter, and I was reassuring her that
  my son can't count either.  People thought it was my "horrible in-laws"
  again!  I know it is not possible to read every line of everyone's posts,
  so I usually don't respond unless I'm pretty sure I've followed the thread
  completely.
>
>  
[about the initial diaper-changing story ]

  Someone wanted to know if there were any husbands that don't change
  poopy diapers.  Since it's not PC to admit that, most people don't
  want to share that fact.  I'm just saying that it's not particularly
  horrible if someone doesn't want to change poopy diapers.  So how does
  one jump from not changing poopy diapers to not doing housework?  Only
  on the net...  Just like people jumped from "trying to force baby
  to eat more food" to "child abuse", in the case of my in-laws.

  [ I knew I should have just let it slide by, but since all the posts
	were so rosy about 1 diaper change for mom, 1 diaper change for
	dad, I thought there'd be people out there that would be reassured
	that some people do all the changes, most of the time.  In fact,
	I know couples where the wife gets "input" and the husband gets
	"output" only.  I suppose those women are horrible monsters for
	taking the fun stuff only!  So anybody out there want to admit
	that was how their wife got away from diaper changes?  I know
	you're out there... :-)  ]

SOAPBOX MODE ON
  It's like these days, husbands are pressured into a lot of things, such
  as "being there for delivery", attending LaMaze classes, even watching
  a C-section.  Since my husband is a doctor, this doesn't bother him
  since he sees blood all the time.  (Boy I'm glad I can post and say
  how cool and with-it my husband was for refraining from giving me
  an episiotomy, even though his hand was reaching for the scissors!
  Talk about participation!)   But I know a friend of my husband
  who felt like fainting and throwing up and he REALLY REALLY would rather
  remain in the waiting room (like in the old days), but no, he wouldn't
  be cool, with-it, hip.  He'd be a terrible person if he didn't go into
  that delivery room with his wife.  So if someone posts that their husband
  doesn't want to attend LaMaze classes, everyone would jump in saying
  how terrible he was, or how insensitive he was, when he could be doing
  other nice things to compensate.  I know a person who was pressured into
  LaMaze classes, even though he would rather watch Monday-night football.
  It ended up being a peer pressure thing where his wife would chastise
  him for being a jerk, and he had to go even though he didn't enjoy it
  one bit.

  And I know husbands here at work who are glad to come to work, but wouldn't
  dare admit it to their wives (with the newborn).  They go around telling
  them, how much they miss being with the baby, how they wish they didn't
  have to go to work, and the minute they're out the door, "Yeah!"
  Guess that makes them horrible people!

  There seems to be one-correct-mode of acceptable behavior championed
  here.  Parents must do tit-for-tat.  Everything must be equally shared.
  Husbands must pretend to enjoy catering to their pregnant wife's every
  whim (or else he's a jerk), they must participate in every aspect of
  pregnancy, labor, delivery, baby-care, etc.  Then some cool, with-it
  husband decides to say "We're pregnant." to emphasize the sharing and
  jointness and gets flamed for "trivializing" the experience of pregnant
  women everywhere.  Seems like you can't win these days...  My dad never
  had these pressures.  He used to change our diapers occasionally, take care 
  of us when he felt like it and get praised for how much he participated,
  even though my mom, as a housewife did the bulk of the work.  He used
  to gleam in his accomplishments in front of his friends who didn't even
  know how to hold a baby, much less change diapers with pins and cloth!
  But at the same time, he did things that my mom didn't do, like change
  oil, fix cars, etc.  So it all evens out in the long run.  

SOAPBOX MODE OFF