From: jsw@cray.com (Jon S. Wood)
Subject: Re: Hillary Clinton - Family Values?
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 30 Jul 92 12:09:32 CDT

In article <HROSE.92Jul29161843@rocza.eff.org> hrose@eff.org (Helen Trillian Rose) writes:
>Jon> == Jon S. Wood <jsw@cray.com> 
>Helen> == Helen Trillian Rose <hrose@eff.org>
>
> Jon> In article <HROSE.92Jul21125553@rocza.eff.org> hrose@eff.org (Helen Trillian Rose) writes:
>
> Helen> It doesn't say "All 12 year olds ....". There *is* a basic level of
> Helen> competency that the court must decide whether or not it exists in the
> Helen> person.
>
> Jon>  Helen, come to my house. I want you to meet a young teenager (15
> Jon> years).  who has serious emotional problems. Maybe you'll see that
> Jon> the world isn't so fucking black and white. Maybe there are things
> Jon> that happen in this world that have no explanation. Just maybe the
> Jon> world you fairness seekers wish for WILL NEVER EXIST. I fear
> Jon> clinton and his values because he lives in a fantasy world.
>
>I didn't say that *all* teenagers could make decisions for themselves.
>Like I said above "It doesn't say 'All 12 year olds ....'". The *court*
>must decide if the basic level of competency required exists in the
>person requesting freedom from their parents. 
>
like the immeasurable qualities of a child's competancy (your definition
of competancy compared to "millions of other fair minded concerned
adults" (i.e. *court*) may be exactly the opposite.

Helen, I'm THE COURT. You claim that you lived on your own for
a while and took care of your sister at 14. BFD! I know a women who
lived on her own in NYC as a hooker (if you call sharing an apartment
and pimp living on your own) and she was 15 at the time! 
questions for the overly concerned crowd (WE CARE!!!!)

  define responsibility: 
  define uncaring parent:
  define ability to take care of themself: example (can wipe their own
ass)
  define some teenagers versus *all*.
  define caring parent:
  define freedom from their parents 


>If the young teenager at your house can't make decisions at 15 years, it
>does NOT mean that other teenagers who are that age, older, or *younger*
>can't make decisions themselves. I could. I lived on my own for a while,
>taking care of my younger sister, when I was 14. That doesn't mean
>*everyone* can do it. But it doesn't mean that people who have the
>ability to take care of themselves and have uncaring parents shouldn't
>have a right to get away from those parents. *If they can do it*.
>
  
  define what 'if they can do it' means. 


 This is my problem with do-gooders like yourself who think if you 
allow access to courts, throw dollars at people, pass laws to make
people responsible, pass laws to make people behave .............
that this will solve a particular problem. It doesn't work, it doesn't
help and in fact it usually messes up thousands and thousands
of innocent peoples lives everywhere. 
 Your intentions are good, your ideas stink. Hillary Clinton-Smith-
Jones-McGillacutty stinks with her 'do-gooder' well intentioned ideas.
Child Defense Fund, up her lilly white butt.

>--Helen
>
>--
>Helen Trillian Rose             	email eff@eff.org for EFF info
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