HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jaymin@maths.tcd.ie (Jo Jaquinta)
Subject: Re: Drachenwald to be kingdom
Organization: Dept. of Maths, Trinity College, Dublin, Ireland.
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 08:01:55 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.182532.26356@watson.ibm.com> mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman) writes:
>It occurs to me that I haven't seen mention of what may have been the most
>interesting piece of court business at Pennsic.  At Great Court, the Prince
>and Princess of Drachenwald presented their petition for kingdom status.
>It was met with universal acclaim.  The current plan calls for Drachenwald
>to be the 13th kingdom by Pennsic XXII.
>
>At this news, Eastern Great Officers were seen to roll in the aisles with
>glee, giggling hysterically.
	Maybe it was at the implausability of it. Although in a minority
I remain opposed to Drachenwald going kingdom. Yeah, it is a cute idea to
all of you who don't have to live here to have a foriegn kingdom. I still
think from our experience that Drachenwald has a way to go before it is
organised enough to be a Kingdom. Whereas the bulk of our population is now
native (vivant Nordmark) the vast majority of our principality officers
are American (and a good proportion of those are married to each other).
These are people who only recently are begining to post non APO addresses.
People who don't know what to do with an International Reply Coupon (when
they answer mail at all). People who don't understand European phone numbers.
People who seem to refuse to read Pikestaff. 
	I'm sorry. Given that our Shire receive 3 times as many visitors from
the East Kingdom than from Drachenwald we're not at all keen at seeing them
elevated to a higher status. For Pikestaff readers just look are our event
announcements. Because we are so remote we like tieing in events with visits
from afar. New Jersy, Vermont, Newfoundland... All people who have visited
us or who have been supportive of our efforts here. We almost had a joint
event with Finland but time ran out. The Drachenwalders we have met seem to
have this high-brow attitude and virtually flaunt East Kingdom Laws and
Policies ("Well we'll be our own Kingdom Real Soon Now and we might as well
do things the way we are going to want to When We Go Kingdom"). They already 
think they *are* a Kingdom.
	Anyhow, anytime me or the Shire has expressed these contrary opinions
all the wet blankets fling themselves upon us and dampen our enthusiasm
even more.

	That aside, if you, or any gentles you know, are planning to travel
to Ireland please let us know. There is a kind and helpful shire here eager
for company of all sorts with all you could wish of Irish hospitality!

	Yours in service,
				Lord Seamus Donn
				Seneschal, Lough Devnaree

    %	   Seamus Donn		Eva de Barri            Sorcha Ui' Flahairteaigh
   %|%	   Jo Jaquinta		Cathy Barry             Lesley Grant
/\\ | //\  jaymin@maths.tcd.ie	cbarry@maths.tcd.ie	lgrant@maths.tcd.ie
  =====			44 Bancroft Avenue, Tallaght, Dublin 24, Ireland.
   /|\			for the Shire of Lough Devanree (Lough Damh an Ri'gh)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: sommerfeld@apollo.hp.com (Bill Sommerfeld)
Subject: Re: Authenticity, Atmosphere & SCA
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 18:45:58 GMT
	<1992Aug17.135749.5346@panix.com>
	<1992Aug20.035515.4172@morgan.ucs.mun.ca> <betel.714284495@camelot>
	<1992Aug20.154904.28607@pbhya.PacBell.COM>
Organization: Hewlett Packard

In article <1992Aug20.154904.28607@pbhya.PacBell.COM> whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt) writes:

   I've seen worse . . .  Like trying to take pictures of fireworks with
   flash . . .

Heh.  On the 5th of July this year (the 4th was rained out), I watched
the fireworks display in Boston from across the river at MIT..

When the fireworks started, the crowd across the river was pretty much
speckled with flashes..
From: Bob.Upson@f333.n142.z1.fidonet.org (Bob Upson)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Pennsic, Some Thoughts
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 20:14:00 -0500

> Greetings from Katherine Lenge (sometimes known as "of Constantinople").
> I think one reason Pennsic may have seemed subdued to you is that (at
> least this is my impression) there weren't as many merchants.  I think
> the reason for this is that the restrictions on merchanting have gotten
> more strict.  Last year, merchants strecthed far down the road past the
> Chirurgeons and Heralds all the way to the end of that road to the
> solar showers!
 
I don't think there were any fewer, they were just relocated.  Instead of
putting merchants down the road from herald's point, they arrayed them along
Battle Road -- I don't recall them being there at all last year.

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: ewright@convex.com (Edward V. Wright)
Subject: Re: fine work at night
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 15:41:00 GMT
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

Robyyan Torr d'Elandris (Dennis R. Sherman) writes:

>Nicholas asserts that people damaged their eyes by straining them 
>in bad light, i.e. working by candle and firelight....
>This is false.  Recent research (which I recently read in summary, 
>somewhere, but don't recall where at the moment, sorry) has proven 
>that reading, sewing, etc. in dim light does not damage your eyesight. 
>Don't just trust me -- ask your eye doctor.  

No, damn it, ask an optometrist.  This dispute has been going on
between optometrists and ophthalmologists for years.  Optometrists
(DOs) generally believe that vision defects such as nearsightedness
result from a combination of environmental and genetic factors.
Ophthamologists (MDs) generally believe that it is purely genetic,
with no environmental factors involved.  Both have research to
support their claims.  But seeing the number of computer programmers, 
for example, who wear glasses suggests to me that the optometrists are 
right.  Either that or the genetic disposition toward nearsightedness 
is linked to a genetic disposition toward computer programming, which 
I find difficult to believe.  But if expert opinion is divided on this
subject, do you really want to take chances?  

-- Nicholas van Leyden
From: knox@cwast3 (Charley Knox)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Pennsic XXII
Keywords: Dates for Pennsic in 1993; Planning vacation leave
Date: 21 Aug 92 22:11:00 GMT
Organization: Department of Astronomy: Case Western Reserve University
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Aug21.200937.11360@tamsun.tamu.edu>, garfield@triton.tamu.edu writes...
>I have a question which I am sure someone out there can answer for me: When
>will Pennsic XXII (1993) be?  I have to get my leave request in early
>in order to be assured that I can have the time off next year.  This was
>my first Pennsic, but it definitely won't be my last! I had a lot of fun,
>even though I never saw Cooper's Lake nor the swimming hole. (Crutches are
>coming with me next year so I can climb back up the hill.)
> 
>I was told that Pennsic is always the 2nd and 3rd weekends of August. However,
>the first weekend of August could be interpreted to be July 31/August 1 or
>August 7/8. 
> 
Greetings,
     In my memory the "Traditional Date for the War" is the 3rd full weekend of
August.  This goes back to when the war WAS a weekend kind of thing.  This date
was established sometime around PW VIII or so.  There have been departures but
none recently, as I remember, the last time there was a departure from this
schedule it caused a fair to midd'lin' stink.  According to my calendar, next
War weekend will be 21-22 August 1993.  This puts the Land Allocation date on
August 7-8.  


Sir Karl Ulfson				Charley Knox
Barony of the Cleftlands		Dept. of Astronomy
					Case Western Reserve University
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Pennsic Update
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 16:27:38 -0500

aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (A.J.S. Nusbacher) writeth:

AN> But by gosh the showers in my apartment are hot.

Awww, the showers weren't THAT bad - once the skin went numb.  And they were
very economical - made the thinnest cloak seem toasty warm.  Actually, it was
a feminist plot for equality - between our penises and their nipples.
From: Leonard.Erickson@f56.n105.z1.therose.pdx.com (Leonard Erickson)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Pennsic, Some Thoughts
Date: 20 Aug 92 01:10:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: therose.714411360.F00003

In a message to All <08-19-92 21:21> Liz Stokes wrote:

LS>  From: ilaine@panix.com (Liz Stokes)
LS>  Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

LS>     I'm not sure about our period, but 17th century lacemakers used a
LS>  device called a flash stand. It was a special stool with one candle and
LS>  several glass bowls arrainged around it. The bowls were filled with
LS>  water and shaped so as to focus the light on the lacemaker's pillow,
LS>  thus 4 or more lacemakers could work by 1 candle. They still damaged
LS>  their eyes though-
LS>  I use at least 2 lamps, and much prefer sunlight.

I did a *very* rough calculation comparing a 12x12 room illuminated by 4 100 
watt lamps with a 12x12 space illuminated by sunlight (using fairly 
questionable assumptions). Most people would think that the room is brightly 
illuminated.... but the sunlight looks to be *thirty* times brighter...

There are reasons for using sunlight... 
 
From: Dave.Aronson@f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Dave Aronson)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Combat Archery
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 16:34:40 -0500

whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt) writeth:

WH> whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt) writes:
WH> >In article <1992Aug12.030721.24786@sol.UVic.CA>
WH> >iwood@sol.UVic.CA (Ian Wood) writes:
WH> >>that a maximum of 70 foot pounds of torque is permitted for combat
archery
WH> >
WH> >>70 foot pounds of torque.
WH> >
WH> >Hmmmm . . .  28 inches [2-1/3 feet]
WH> >times 30 pounds gives 70 foot-pounds--but this doesn't allow for the
WH> >string height.  Hmm . . .  again.  My Lord, are you sure those that
WH> >created these specifications knew what they were doing?)

WH> [Oh, dear.  I'm starting comment on my own articles . . .]

WH> I think what is actually wanted is the integral of force over
WH> distance.  I beleive the correct term for this summation would be
WH> 'impulse'.

The integral of force over distance is the "work" done, which becomes kinetic
energy (assuming perfection), related to but distinct from impulse.  For an
object in motion, the former is .5 mv^2, and the latter is simply mv.  The
next question is, which is the more important one when getting hit by a combat
arrow?  That I dunno....

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: sjvn@access.digex.com (Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols)
Subject: Re: Pennsic Update (End)
Organization: Express Access Public Access UNIX, Greenbelt, Maryland USA
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 02:38:36 GMT

Much as I would like to think that the Drunken Badger's comrades in
arms, the Horse Clan, were the ones behind the Pennsic Salisbury
Horse, I don't think it was them.  Of course, I've been wrong
before.  In any case, a vivat to whoever the worthies were who created
the horse.

Alexis Stephanovich Monomach

-- 
Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols
sjvn@access.digex.com
From: ilaine@panix.com (Liz Stokes)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Pennsic, Some Thoughts
Date: 19 Aug 92 21:21:54 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix & Internet, NYC

In article <ewright.714238682@convex.convex.com> ewright@convex.com (Edward V. Wright) writes:
>Arenwald von Hagenberg (Arnold N Pears) writes:
>
>>>Lighting is another consideration.  If you expect people to be doing things 
>>>after dark, well, tiki torches and firelight just aren't adequate for fine
>>>work like embroidery and sewing.
>
>>Does this mean that all such work in the period we are concerned with 
>>was accomplished during daylight hours?
>
>No, it means that people damaged their eyes by straining them in 
>bad light.  Like using live steel on the battlefield, this is an
>aspect of period life we don't wish to recreate. 

	I'm not sure about our period, but 17th century lacemakers used 
a device called a flash stand. It was a special stool with one candle and
several glass bowls arrainged around it. The bowls were filled with water
and shaped so as to focus the light on the lacemaker's pillow, thus 4 or
more lacemakers could work by 1 candle. They still damaged their eyes though-
I use at least 2 lamps, and much prefer sunlight.
							-Ilaine



-- 
Liz Stokes         | 	Subduing evil by dancing on a dwarf,
Ilaine de Cameron  | 	Nataraja, the lord of Dance, 
                   | 	bestows grace on the world.
ilaine@panix.com   |
From: ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com (Ailsa N.T. Murphy)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Instructions for ancient kilt - feileadh mor
Date: 22 Aug 92 05:53:11 GMT
Organization: Ailanthus Project

guth@unixg.ubc.ca (Geoff Guth) writes:

> In article <3TVoPB3w164w@ailanth.UUCP> ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com (Ailsa N.T
>
> >but the puritans were NOT an obscure religious group in america.  they were
> >dominant religious group in most of new england.  their infulence on our
> >culture has been quite profound, much more extensive than most peopel
> >realize...
>
> I'm not as much of an expert on american history as I would like to be, but
> the vast majority of the Loyalists fleeing the American Revolution were
> not Puritans but Anglicans (or Episcopalians in the U.S.)  It seems to
> me that, at least by 1770, the majority of the English colonists in
> British North America were Anglican.  Anglicanism was also the only religion
> to receive any kind of official sanction in any English colony outside of
> Quebec.  I realize that the Pilgrims play a big role in American mythos, but
> I would hesitate to say that they played as big a role in American history
> as yuo make out.
>

do you know anything about early american religious laws or sumptuary laws?
the puritans were Here First, and came in bulk.  they made the towns, made the
laws, and peopel who moved in to their areas just had to deal.  they had no
qualms about executing people for heresy, whihc made their control of their
areas quite firm as well.  (quakers, for instance, were killed on more than one
occasion.)

i fail to see what dragging in the loyalists has to do with anything.  it seems
unsurprising that the loyalists would belong to the church of england.  i was
not talking about HISTORY, but rather CULTURE.  there is a difference.

> My apologies to the good gentles of this bridge for bringing up a topic
> that is so hopelessly OOP.  In my defense, let me say that I would love
> nothing better than to bring back the houpelande _et_al._ as the cutting
> edge of fashion....

my apologies as well.  this is very very OOP, and Walburga does not at all
approve of the tricks her descendants got up to...

                                             -ailsa

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
     ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com                   ________
      No visible means of support          Silence \      / Action
      and you have not seen nothing yet.      =     \    /    =
      Everything's come together.           Death    \  /    Life
                                                      \/
From: kenm@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca (...Jose)
Subject: Re: Grand Pennsic
Organization: Department of Computer Science, McMaster University
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 21:52:33 GMT

In article <MOSS.92Aug20095609@ibis.cs.umass.edu> moss@cs.umass.edu writes:
>
>On the "War" versus "Tournament" discussion, to those of us who have been
>attending Pennsic for many years, this may seem in some ways only a fine
>point. However, words shape attitudes, perhaps even more so among the
>impressionable young and new members, and I think the "Festival" and
>"Tournament" idea is a much better one than "War".

	I must agree with the good lady.  Words can be very powerful...
the pen of restraint may prove to be mightier than the sword of Pennsic
tradition.

	I've sought for the last few months to consiously regard Pennsic
as a tournament, not a war..... for authenticity reasons, not because of
some for knowledge of Ronin & Katya and Ruslan and Margaret's plans.  All
Pennsic correspondence coming from the office of the Prince of Ealdormere's
chamberlain (that's me, right now) has consistently referred to "the
great tournament of Pennsic"... I was quite pleased to find that I was
not alone in my sentiments.

	Amongst we nubies (I've been in the SCA for less than 1.5 years),
traditions of "war" at Pennsic are easily erased.  Two mundane cases for
comparison are the introductions of the new Canadian flag in 1966 and the
conversion to metric in the 70's: both raised such a hew and cry, you'd
think that the world was coming to and end.... but now, less than a generation
later, my peers and I live in a world were the new flag and metric are
just facts of life.  So, in time, would the "Pennsic Tournment/Fair" 
become a fact of life, and the idea of the "War" just a convinient thoughh
historical term, only dear to those living in the past (OK, poor choice
of cliche).

				....Cinaed de Moravia


Lord Cinaed de Moray
In residence in the lands
of Byron, Baron Rising Waters,
under the Coronet of the Ealdormere,
in the Midrealm.

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
".sig quotes are silly"|Kenneth C. Moyle          kenm@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca 
 - Kenneth C. Moyle    |Department of Biochemistry     MOYLEK@MCMASTER.BITNET 
                       |McMaster University       ...!uunet!mnetor!maccs!kenm
From: Suze.Hammond@f56.n105.z1.therose.pdx.com (Suze Hammond)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Authenticity, Atmosphere & SCA
Date: 11 Aug 92 18:46:00 GMT


 DG>  From: dale@ais.org (Dale Gee)
 DG>  Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
 DG>
 DG>  Last but not least. To the person who corrected my spelling of
 DG>  cavalry, I am sorry I offend thee with my poor spelling.
 DG>
 DG>  Dale

 As I explained elsewhere, it's not an "offense", it's a personal
 problem of mine. I'm a bit looney on the subject.

 If the system I replied on had email, I wouldn't have sent it
 publicly, but basically, I just have a hard time not correcting
 spelling.

 No offense taken, and I hope none given.

 Pax,

 Moreach 
 
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: 00030929@ysub.ysu.edu
Subject: Re: Pennsic Update (End)
Organization: Youngstown State University
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 23:46:27 GMT

Greetings to all, from Vajk!
 
I believe the figure at troll booth read:
 
           Final Count   8276
 
If memory doesn't fail me.
 
Vajk
From: corun@access.digex.com (Corun MacAnndra)
Subject: Re: Pennsic, Some Thoughts
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 18:32:10 GMT


>>This need not be a problem:  if adequate security arrangements can 
>>be made, people will not feel the need to camp with their tools.
>
>True, but that is a slightly different idea from the original one,
>which was to have an arts and sciences *encampment.*
>
>
>>The flip side of this is that putting them all under one roof means 
>>that it would not require that much greater an investment to provide 
>>an adequate ventilation system, which would push the worst of the 
>>smells and smoke out a vent at the top of the tent.
>
>I mentioned smoke and odors only as examples of the "environmental
>effects" we have to consider.  There are others, also.  Noise, for 
>example.  Can you imagine colocating a forge, bagpipers, drummers, 
>singers, and embroiderers under one roof?  Trying to put *all* the 
>arts and sciences into one area does not seem feasible.  But we might
>be able to accomodate most of them with proper planning.  Two or three
>smaller areas might also prove more practical.

Perhaps the idea of a Crafters Village might be better than expecting the
craftspeople to camp together. Something on the order of Jamestown or
Colonial Williamsburg. That way people could camp with their friends and
still have their craft booths to attend to during the day. You could also
spread out the various crafts, putting the more noxious ones in one area
together and the others elsewhere. Forges and dyers together for example,
embroiderers, tailors, limners and the like in another area. It would also
give a greater feeling of villageness or bazaarness (or bizarreness).

As for security, granted it's not as secure as a closed camp might be, but
there is always the possibility of making arrangements with whoever is doing
Pennsic Security, or hiring one of the local mercenary forces. Many of us
really like bartering with the skilled craftspeople. You get some nifty stuff
that way. I would also suggest that if such an area gets set up that whoever
is front person for this should contact the Autocrat and the Merchocrat and
arrange for space on the Serengeti. It's treeless, but it's flat and airy
enough to blow away the smoke of forges and smell of dying.

In Service,

Corun


Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: rday@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Robert E Day)
Subject: Re: Who Won the War?
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 20:30:21 GMT

In article <170g1bINN67v@agate.berkeley.edu> cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu () wri
tes:
>In article <H73RPB1w162w@micor.ocunix.on.ca> vincent@micor.ocunix.on.ca (Victo
r W. Wong) writes:
>> ...WHO WON THE WAR.?
>
>East won more battles, collected more war points, so I guess they won.
>Does it matter?
>
I think I'll share something I wave been saying for a while.

If we win, We'll have fun, then go back and party with owr friends, if we 
lose, we'll have fun, then go back and party with our friends. The important 
thing is to have fun, so we can go back an party with our friends.

-
Otto
-- 
If the price that I must pay to obtain my *  Robert E. Day/Syr Otto von    *
freedom, is to acknowledge that the Gov-  *  Schwartzkatz, Shire Mugmort   *
ernmet was granted the power to infringe  *  Barony Middle Marches,        *
on them, then I am not free. Paul Anderson*  Middle Kingdom                *
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca