Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
From: J.M.Ross@man0507.wins.icl.co.uk (J.M.Ross)
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Subject: Re: BIG, ENORMOUS, MUST BE WRITTEN IN CAPITAL LETTERS
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 16:09:33 +0000







In message <1992Oct1.183354.1@vaxa.strath.ac.uk> caar18@vaxa.strath.ac.uk
(no name) writes:

>I.T.Marsh@man0507.wins.icl.co.uk (I.T.Marsh) writes
>>Here is an interesting question for you:

>>What makes a club big?


 >   The only measure of how big a club is the size  of its support,
 >specifically the size of its average   home league attendances.
 >Money spent on players etc.  is a measure of how rich the club is,
>success on domestic /international level is purely a measure of how
> successful  a club is (or how sometimes how weak its domestic league
>is ).

Disagree, support is one factor, performance is another, most specifically
performance in Europe rather than a domestic league of dubious quality.

>> 1. Total value of club (I think it is sad when it has to boil
>> down to money  though).
>>2. Total number of fans or perhaps average attendance
>>3. Stadium - size & quality
>>4. Success in domestic competition
>>5. Success in international competition
>>6. Both 5 & 6 combined
>>7. history/heritage value
>>8. Contribution to international team
>>9. Contribution to the benefit of football in general eg
>>bringing through good young players.

>  All these other points you mention are important, and all help
>to determine how good a club is, along with other things like
> style of football played, club's attitude towards supporters etc.
>- - but as I say, the only true measure of the size of a club is
> the size of its crowds.
>     On this basis, up to this season, and for the preceeding
>3/4 seasons the title of the biggest club in Britain title would
> unquestionably belong to Manchester United, who over that period
> would average 46-47,000 for each home league game, Rangers would
> consistently be second biggest at 42-43,000, and a group of
>clubs like Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs would clock in at the mid to
>low 30,000's mark, with Celtic around this group depending on how
> their season was going.
>       So to put it simply, Man U's average was larger than
>Ranger's capacity.

You seriously overestimate the average attendances at both Old Trafford
and Ibrox. Rangers have been around 38000 since Souness arrived (apart
from during the stadium extension), Man Utd until about 5 years ago did 
average 46000-47000, but attendances have declined since then. I think they
managed about 42000 last season. 3 seasons ago Liverpool actually recorded
a higher average attendance than United (just over 39000), although only by a
couple of hundred. Liverpool and Rangers have been neck and neck for the last
five years. Arsenal are consistently in the low to mid 30000s and Spurs usually
manage about 30000. Celtic have averaged 25000-35000 over the last five years
depending on how well they were playing.

Best average attendance over a season in England was Newcastle United who
managed 58000 whilst in Division Two. Man United had a 57000 average one
season.

These figures are very small compared to the likes of Benfica, Real Madrid,
AC Milano, Bayern Mu"nchen.

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