HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ramasubr@ecn.purdue.edu (SUBU Ramasubramanian)
Newsgroups: rec.music.indian.classical
Subject: Qn about janya ragas
Keywords: janya
Date: 21 Jul 92 23:14:00 GMT
Reply-To: ramasubr@ecn.purdue.edu
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network


Hi Netters,

I am sure one of you have an answer to the following question.

Ragas with fewer number of notes than 7(:  Janya ragas, I guess  ), can originate from 
one of the many melakarthas. For instance, the raga Hindolam can be considered to be 
a subset of Thodi or Natabairavi. Is there a rule that fixes it under one of
these melakarthas? 
There are even ragas where both Ni's are used etc. They pose the same ambiquity too.

I am not sure if the answer to this question was posted earlier. If so, please mail me
a copy of that posting.

Thanks

Subu
From: sp2@cec1.wustl.edu (Sundara Pandian)
Newsgroups: rec.music.indian.classical
Subject: Why are carnatic kritis mostly devotional?
Date: 23 Jul 1992 12:23:38 -0500
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

           Why are carnatic kritis mostly devotional ?
         ---------------------------------------------

      This question comes to my mind
  invariably, whenever I attend a
  carnatic recital.
      I find that most of the kritis
  popular and performed often in the
  carnatic concerts are devotional in
  nature and one can't help thinking
  why people have written kritis mostly
  singing in praise of God.
      It was a delightful change when
  I attended a concert by Dr.Balamurali-
  krishna. ( I hold the view that he is
  the musician among the musicians. )
  Dr.Balamuralikrishna, who was singing
  the Tyagaraja kritis, switched to Tamil
  with the song
     "Thanga radham vandhadhu veedhiyilE"
   [ A golden chariot came on the street.]
       This is a romatic hit song that he
  performed for a movie ( Does anyone know
  the raga of the song ?). 
       One could point out "Thiruppaavai"
  as romantic, but I would have to remind
  him that the bottomline therein is also
  devotional. I have heard one from this
  work performed by Ariyakkudi Iyengar in
  the sree raga. But "thiruppaavai" is not
  often performed in the carnatic recitals.
      Tamil poet Bharathi has written some
  romantic kritis also, the so-called
  "kaNNammaa songs", but the bottomline is
  devotional also. ( The poet pictures 
  himself as a lover of Lord Krishna and then
  he swaps the roles .) However, his kritis
  were a delightful change to traditional
  kritis speaking in praise of God. Bharathi
  his written such kritis as well and his
  kriti `nalladhOr veenai saidhE..' is very
  popular nowadays in Tamilnadu. I also like
  to add that Bharathi wrote kritis in the
  days of India's freedom struggle ( Bharathi
  died before India got independence ), on
  Bharatha Maathaa ( Mother India ) and other
  kritis in the lines of Indian freedom
  struggle. I am writing this to indicate that
  Bharathi has written kritis other than
  devotional and some romantic kritis also,     
  even though they circle Lord Krishna.
      I welcome a discussion on this topic.

                                - S.Pandian.
                            sp2@cec1.WUSTL.edu
 ----------------------------------------------
  
 
Newsgroups: rec.music.indian.classical
From: mitra@oct17.dfe.dec.com (JoyDeep Mitra)
Subject: Re: Asheesh Khan
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation - Santa Clara, CA
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 18:00:58 GMT

I think Ali Akbar has a total of twelve children most of whom are in India. He also
has three concurrent wives, two of whom are in India. The third one is the American
Mary who lives with him here in California.

--Joydeep Mitra
From: ravi@photonics.usc.edu (Ravi)
Newsgroups: rec.music.indian.classical
Subject: Sai-Bajan
Date: 29 Jul 1992 12:24:27 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: la
NNTP-Posting-Host: photonics.usc.edu

I am interested to know whether there is any place in LA where 
the Sai Bajan is conducted. If so, please give me the time, day and
the details of the place. Since I am located at Univ. of Southern Calif.
I would appreciate receiving details of such bajans in the nearby places.
Thanks in advance.
Sai Ram.
My Mail :
Dr. RAVI                                   Phone : 213-740-4330 (Off.)
# 510 VHE                               E-Mail: ravi@photonics.usc.edu
University of Southern California
Los Angeles, CA 90089-0241.


Newsgroups: rec.music.indian.classical
From: appa@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (ravi.ramaswamy)
Subject: Misra Chapu Tala
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 18:16:11 GMT

Folks,


   A question about Misra Chapu Tala (e.g. Nidhichala Sukhama, Janani 
   Ninnuvina). Is there a Chapu Tala? The seven talas that I know are
   Dhruva, Matya, Triputa, Eka, Ata, Rupaka, Jhampa along with the
   five jatis giving rise to 35 different talas. Misra Chapu does not
   appear anywhere (Adi tala also does not appear, but then Adi tala
   is really Chatusra jati Triputa Tala).

   Am I missing something?


Ravi Ramaswamy.




Newsgroups: rec.music.indian.classical
From: krish@athena.mit.edu (Viswanathan Krishnan)
Subject: Bringing Appreciation of MDR to the conscious level
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 15:17:36 GMT


Whether MDR was noticed, appreciated etc, is an altogether, subjective issue
which MDR himself seemed not to care; may be true that MDR didn't get what he
deserved:a sangitha kalanidhi, when he was alive (later the academy
awarded a posthumous award). I have also heard my folks tell me of
MDR concerts with empty halls (20 or 25 people). The question is:
Does it matter? What would help a whole lot would be to (i) keep his style alive
(in the absence of any big disciples, his style may fade away unlike GNB, M. M.
Iyer, or Ariyakkudi whose torch is still carried by their disciples) and
(ii) bring appreciation of MDR to the conscious level. (Njan, continue ur
good work with the idea of MDR tape exchange).

What can we do? We can ask ourselves what are the components of MDR's
style that endear us to him. In this context, Srini. Pichumani's observation was
very interesting to me, (MDR's understating style, he wrote). I am personally
fond of MDR for his spontaniety, unconventional swaras and rendering of slow
ragas like sankarabharanam. He seems to add a new flavor to the words. 
He even changes words in some krithis (in one aTana krithi, ariyum sivanum onre,
he ends with ariyathavar ulare). His slow speed and his low sruthi (kattai
kural) really set him apart from GNB. And probably because the voice is not all
that mellifluous, it is possible to focus attention on other details.

 I have asked myself the following questions; 

1. Who is MDR's guru/ Which school did he belong to?
2. Does MDR have any disciples? Did he compose any songs?
3. Was he a professional musician? Or was music just his avocation?

I would ask some of u knowledgeable folks out there to also compare and
contrast (apart from speed, brihas and kalam) GNB, MDR, M. M. Iyer.
Also, just curious, why was MDR not awarded the sangitha kalanidhi in
his life time?

Cheers,
Krishnan
-----------------
" If you speakest not, I will fill my heart with thy silence and endure
it. I will keep still and wait like the night with starry vigil and
its head bent low with patience.
 The morning will surely come, the darkness will vanish, and thy voice
pour down in golden streams breaking through the sky.
Then thy words will take wing in songs from every one of my bird's
nests, and thy melodies will break forth in flowers in all my forest's
groves."

- From Gitanjali by Rabindranath Tagore

        Vish. Krishnan: The King of Vishful Thinking
MIT Room: E53-340                       550 Memorial Drive #22F
Ph: (617)-253-0250                      Cambridge, MA 02138
FAX: (617)-258-7579                     (617)225-2683
From: devkumar@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Devakumar Sreevijayan)
Newsgroups: rec.music.indian.classical
Subject: Re: Asheesh Khan
Date: 30 Jul 92 23:04:35 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX


Hi,
           Could someone give me some information about Asheesh Khan?
I observed that he plays the tanpura in Ali Akbar Khan's recently
released "Maihar" album. Isn't he Ali Akbar's son? If my memory is   
correct, Asheesh Khan plays the sarod himself. In fact, I do recall
listening to one of his performances; it may have been on AIR's 
Saturday night National Programme of Music. Am I right? What is he 
doing (other than play the tanpura :-) these days? Does he have any
records out? And could someone tell me more about his playing? From
what I recall, he plays the sarod in a very sober, subdued style, 
with a shade of the grave, melodic approach that Ali Akbar has put
his stamp on. Does Ali Akbar have other children? Who are his principal 
students?

I realize I have asked a lot of questions, so much obliged if some of
you can answer at least a few of these. Rajan?        


Dev

Newsgroups: rec.music.indian.classical
From: manu@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Njan)
Subject: Re: MDR
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 07:46:27 GMT


First of all, I appologise to the readers of this group for this post.
But, when someone attacks me personally without any basis, I think I have a
right to defend myself.

In article <1992Jul22.010029.9763@tamsun.tamu.edu> gopal@tamsun.tamu.edu writes:
>In article <1992Jul21.181407.24826@cbnewsk.cb.att.com> appa@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (ravi.ramaswamy) writes:
>>
>>    Are we beginning to see shades of sci in rmic? I am talking about
>>    having to read nasty comments about other's opinions. It leaves a 
>>    bad taste. 
>
>  That is unfortunately so whenever persons like Njan appear on the scene.Till
>now he was mostly confined to sci.He just does not seem to see beyond Kerala in
>geography and thinks anyone who has a different opinion(in this case about
>MDR) is ignorant,biased,snobbish and what not.I hope this does not spoil the 

I must point out here that I did not call anybody names or insult anybody
in any of my posts in this thread. I stayed within the scope of the topic
at hand during the discussions. If the poster thinks otherwise, I advise him
to re-read the posts and use an interpreter if necessary.

>atmosphere in this newsgroup which I have enjoyed reading since its creation.
>
>gopal
>

I consider this post as a personal attack on me which has got nothing to do
with this group. My opinions or behavior in sci or anywhere else has got
nothing to do with this group, and does not in any way reflect my behavior
in this group. I cannot find any reason why anybody would want to discuss
my personality based on my behavior in some other group ( which is my private
business as far as this group is concerned ) on a public forum devoted to
the discussion of Indian classical music! Therefore I consider this as an
insult to me and also as an attempt to insult the intelligence of other
readers of this group. I would advise the poster Mr. Gopal to withdraw
this article and post an apology to me and to the other readers as soon
as possible, failing to do so within 2 days of this post might force me
to take appropriate action.

sincerely,
Njan
Newsgroups: rec.music.indian.classical
From: budaraju@cae.wisc.edu (Srinivas Budaraju)
Newsgroups: rec.music.indian.classical
Subject: Re: Why are carnatic kritis mostly devotional?
Date: 27 Jul 92 22:11:41 GMT
Organization: U of Wisconsin-Madison College of Engineering

In article <9207231722.AA26682@cec1.wustl.edu> sp2@cec1.wustl.edu (Sundara Pandian) writes:

>      I find that most of the kritis
>  popular and performed often in the
>  carnatic concerts are devotional in
>  nature and one can't help thinking
>  why people have written kritis mostly
>  singing in praise of God.

>                                - S.Pandian.

I think it has to do with the patronage. In the
north, the Palace was the patron and hence the 
secular compositions in Hindustani music. In the
south, temples were the patrons.

-Srinivas			budaraju@cae.wisc.edu
From: d@icad.com (David Place)
Newsgroups: rec.music.indian.classical
Subject: Classical Music/Dance tours of India
Date: 24 Jul 92 19:30:34 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: ICAD Inc., Cambridge, MA



Dear Learned Colleagues:

I have very much enjoyed reading the newgroup for the
past few months.  I'm wondering if anyone knows of a
tour to India which emphasizes music and dance.  Certainly,
I want to do much sightseeing, but I'd like to spend many
evenings listening to music and watching dance.  (I've
studied Sitar for 6 years.)

A few years ago, I took a tour to Indonesia that was conducted
by two American brothers who had studied Javanese Classical
dance.  They combined a professionally organized and run tour
with many special performances which they arranged through
their artistic connections.  It was a delight.  I'd love to find
something similar for India.

Thanks in advance.

David Place
From: appa@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (ravi.ramaswamy)
Newsgroups: rec.music.indian.classical
Subject: MDR
Date: 21 Jul 92 18:14:07 GMT
Organization: AT&T

Folks,

  
    Regarding the MDR discussion going on:

    People either seem to love MDR's music (I include myself in this 
    category) or hate him (someone I know in Madras refers to him as the
    "Vaandhi Bhagavathar"). 

    But the real reason for this posting:

    Are we beginning to see shades of sci in rmic? I am talking about
    having to read nasty comments about other's opinions. It leaves a 
    bad taste. 


Ravi Ramaswamy.
From: ssampath@taco.ucdavis.edu (Srikanth Sampath)
Newsgroups: rec.music.indian.classical
Subject: Re: MDR
Date: 31 Jul 92 17:57:11 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: College of Engineering - University of California - Davis

Newsgroups: rec.music.indian.classical
Subject: Re: MDR
Summary: 
Expires: 
Followup-To: 
Distribution: na
Organization: College of Engineering - University of California - Davis
Keywords: 

In article <1992Jul31.133355.11762@cbnewsk.cb.att.com> appa@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (ravi.ramaswamy) writes:
>			a tenth of the speed and lets you enjoy a beautiful
>			raga and a beautiful song. Perhaps because of his
>			slow speed, he is able to insert "Nee" in front
>			of "Sari Evvar Unnanura" creating a nice effect. I
>			don't think the "Nee" figures in the MSS version.
>
>			Same comment probably applies to the Poorvi Kalyani
>			piece "Ninnu Vina Gamari", where he inserts "Amba"
>			occasionally.
>
>   Saraswathi
>   Sarasavani:		This is an MDR composition in Khamas. Normally I
>			am put off by this raga ( thanks to BrochevAr 
>			EvvarurA).
                       ~~~~~~~~~~~
Have you heard Maharajapuram Viswanatha Iyer sing it, probably u got
turned off listening to it in sankarabharanam (movie)
i find it difficult to understand being turned off with a beautiful
krithi in a beautiful ragam
srikanth
>			But it comes alive in MDR's rendition.
>
    
-- 
_______________________________________________
Aa No Bhadraaha Kratavo Yantu Vishwataha
.Let Noble thoughts come to us from all sides
					- Rigveda
Newsgroups: rec.music.indian.classical
From: parrikar@csn.org (Rajan Parrikar)
Subject: Re: Why are carnatic kritis mostly devotional?
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 17:25:12 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.152523.13314@cis.ohio-state.edu> jayasim@platypus.cis.ohio-state.edu (D Jayasimha) writes:
>>In article <9207231722.AA26682@cec1.wustl.edu> sp2@cec1.wustl.edu (Sundara Pandian) writes:
>>
>>      I find that most of the kritis
>>  popular and performed often in the
>>  carnatic concerts are devotional in
>>  nature and one can't help thinking
>>  why people have written kritis mostly
>>  singing in praise of God.
>
>>                                - S.Pandian.
>
>Not surprising, really.  Indian music is spiritual in character and what
>better vehicle to express musical sentiments other than through bhakti.  

The following episode illustrates with telling effect the potency of
bhakti and faith in Indian music. 
There are several versions of this story of Swami Haridas, who was
Tansen's guru, and all of them drive home the same point. I have chosen
the one offered by B. Chaitanya Deva in his book, "An Introduction to
Indian Music".

---------
pp96
Though one of the greatest musician of his times, the saint [Swami
Haridas] was completely indifferent to laurels and turned his face
from all fame. Once Emperor Akbar wanted to hear him. It was
impossible to bring the Swami to the royal court; and the hermitage
was out of bounds to kings and such like. Therefore, Tansen thought of
a ruse. Akbar would go in rags as a tamboora bearer with Tansen to
Nidhuvan! The two went as planned and the Emperor listened with rapt
wonder to the divine music. On return to the court, Akbar remarked to
Tansen, "How is it that with all your virtuosity, your music is so
insipid compared to your guru's?" Tansen replied, " What else can it
be: for I sing to the Emperor of this land but he sings to the Emperor
of Creation".
---------

Rajan Parrikar
==============
email: parrikar@mimicad.colorado.edu



***deleted***
>
>jayasimha
From: parrikar@csn.org (Rajan Parrikar)
Newsgroups: rec.music.indian.classical
Subject: Re: Why are carnatic kritis mostly devotional?
Date: 30 Jul 92 17:58:33 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder

In article <1992Jul29.191638.9515@microsoft.com> umeshmo@microsoft.com (Umesh Mokate) writes:
>In article <1992Jul27.171142.11973@doug.cae.wisc.edu> budaraju@cae.wisc.edu (Srinivas Budaraju) writes:
>>In article <9207231722.AA26682@cec1.wustl.edu> sp2@cec1.wustl.edu (Sundara Pandian) writes:
>>
>>>      I find that most of the kritis
>>>  popular and performed often in the
>>>  carnatic concerts are devotional in
>>>  nature and one can't help thinking
>>>  why people have written kritis mostly
>>>  singing in praise of God.
>>
>>>                                - S.Pandian.
>>
>>I think it has to do with the patronage. In the
>>north, the Palace was the patron and hence the 
>>secular compositions in Hindustani music. In the
>>south, temples were the patrons.
>>
>>-Srinivas			budaraju@cae.wisc.edu
>
>
>I think it has to do with the composers. In carnatic most of the legendary work
>is done by saints like Tyaagaraajaa, Puarandardaasa etc and naturally their
>work is devotional in nature. It has nothing to do with patronage in south. Do 
>you want to say that in south the kings did not give patronage to musicians?
>
>In Hindustani, on the other hand, the legendary work in present day Kayaal 
>singing is done by Hindus and Muslims together. In this case, palace patronage
>of Muslim kings did have an influence and naturally it came out with various
>shades. We find many devotional pieces in Hindustani too along with others.
>
>Another point I think must be taken into account is that even though a piece
>is devotional in nature, in khayaal singing, artists try to bring out the
>mood of the raag rather than the devotional mood (i.e. words are given less
>importance than raaga's abtract mood). So one does not feel the prominence
>of devotion. If words are given importance, then it becomes a Bhajan. 
              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

1) Not necessarily. Just listen to Pandit Jasraj. In his art, one finds
a happy marriage of lyrical beauty and classical technique. 
2) Some ragas are traditionally devotional in nature and they are 
referred to as ones with 'bhakti-ras'.
3) As someone (Jaisimha?) has pointed out before, Indian music IS
spiritual in nature. It does not follow, however, that our music is
sectarian.

Rajan Parrikar
==============
email:parrikar@mimicad.colorado.edu

<deleted>
>
>Umesh...
>
>
>
>
Newsgroups: rec.music.indian.classical
From: chander@leland.Stanford.EDU (Chandar Venkataraman)
Subject: Test...just ignore
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 19:51:58 GMT

This is just a test....ignore it.
Newsgroups: rec.music.indian.classical
From: pasupat@ecf.toronto.edu (Subbarayan Pasupathy)
Subject: M.D.Ramanathan
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 00:01:27 GMT

The popular Tamil song "Hariyum Haranum" in ataaNaa MDR used
to sing often was his own composition.I believe that another
song he used to sing - "ManamE raamanai" in Sindhu Bharavi -was
also his own composition.
S.Pasupathy

Newsgroups: rec.music.indian.classical
From: parrikar@csn.org (Rajan Parrikar)
Subject: Re: Asheesh Khan
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 01:54:49 GMT

In article <76836@ut-emx.uucp> devkumar@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Devakumar Sreevijayan) writes:
>
>Hi,
>           Could someone give me some information about Asheesh Khan?
>I observed that he plays the tanpura in Ali Akbar Khan's recently
>released "Maihar" album. Isn't he Ali Akbar's son? If my memory is   
>correct, Asheesh Khan plays the sarod himself. In fact, I do recall
>listening to one of his performances; it may have been on AIR's 
>Saturday night National Programme of Music. Am I right? What is he 
>doing (other than play the tanpura :-) these days? Does he have any
>records out? And could someone tell me more about his playing? From
>what I recall, he plays the sarod in a very sober, subdued style, 
>with a shade of the grave, melodic approach that Ali Akbar has put
>his stamp on. Does Ali Akbar have other children? Who are his principal 
>students?
>
>I realize I have asked a lot of questions, so much obliged if some of
>you can answer at least a few of these. Rajan?        
>
>
>Dev

1) Ashish is Ali Akbar's (eldest??) son and an excellent sarodiya.
2) Yes, he has quite a few recordings to his credit. For details
   you might want to call the Ali Akbar College record store at
   415-454-6264.
3) And yes, Ali Akbar has, at least, four more children. Dhyanesh
   and Pranesh are two and two are by his current American wife, Mary.

   Rajan Parrikar
   ============== 
   email: parrikar@mimicad.colorado.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.indian.classical
From: kippenj@epas.utoronto.ca (J. Kippen)
Subject: Tabla query
Organization: University of Toronto - EPAS
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 03:09:33 GMT

Usually it's me responding to tabla queries, but here's one for all of you:

I recently received a tape of a tabla solo by Shaukat Hussain, but I
know virtually nothing about this character.  I do remember he is
(was?) a disciple of Kader Bakhsh who also taught the great Allah
Rakha.  Perhaps Shaukat Hussain lived in Lahore, in which case I'm not
surprised that I never heard much (i.e. anything) about him in India.

Can anyone fill in a few details please?

Also --- if anyone wants a very good blast of excellent tabla playing,
listen to Anindo Chatterjee's new CD on which he plays several solos
in a range of interesting tals.  To my mind he adheres to the tabla
classics on this disc, with very few excursions into rat-a-tat-tat
machine-gun tukras and relas.  This is full of great compositions and
wonderful sets of improvisations.  I think the old great masters would
approve somehow.  Anindo is a student of Jnan Prakash Ghosh of
Calcutta.  However, early on he did learn from my teacher, Ustad Afaq
Husain Khan of Lucknow (during the years he lived in Calcutta).  Pity
Anindo never acknowledges that fact, despite all the old Lucknow he
plays on his CD.  I suppose he could have got that from Jnan Babu too,
but I like the idea of acknowledging one's mentors and guides.  Still,
please have a good listen.  It's very worthwhile.

Newsgroups: rec.music.indian.classical