From: spencer@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (S. Spencer Sun)
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Subject: Re: Try this one
Date: 26 Aug 92 16:23:10 GMT
Reply-To: spencer@phoenix.princeton.edu (S. Spencer Sun)
Organization: Live Organ Transplants

In article <1992Aug24.223338.14575@ramon.bgu.ac.il>, avir@chen.bgu.ac.il (Avi Roy Shapira) writes:
>bpwing@phoenix.princeton.edu (Ben Wing) writes:
>: In article <1992Aug22.114625.4482@linus.mitre.org> bs@gauss.mitre.org (Robert D. Silverman) writes:
>: |
>: | Why is my next call even in doubt?
>:
>: What if you don't play GSF?  Maybe in some people's systems, 5NT in this
>: auction is invitational to 6S or 6NT.
>:
>: Nothing is ever as simple as you typically make it out to be, especially to a
>: beginner.
>:
>: Saying "I would bid 5NT, grand-slam force" would be more appropriate.
>:
>No system known to me (and I know a few) has any other use of the JUMP to 5NT
>except the GSF. The GSF is even allowed in places they ban stayman and
>blackwood.  Do you suggest that we should comment every bid?  Normal
>practice in this group is to comment unexpected meanings. So for example
>it is appropriate to say "I bid 4NT (DI)" but inappropriate to say: "I jump to
>4NT (Blackwood)" because you don't wish to insult the audience.
>You say, "1NT (14-16)" not 1NT "(14-16, any 4333 or 4432 or 5332 dist.)"

I think if you had to pick one or the other, it would be better to err
on the side of commenting too much.

I also think you are completely missing Ben's point.  Ben is not
complaining that Bob didn't comment GSF.  Ben is complaining that Bob
was gratuitously belligerent.

>If you don't like the tone of this group, please poll the net for
>opening another group: rec.games.bridge.novices. See how many vote you'd get.

I suggested this a while back, and a couple people said it sounded like
a good idea, and some said it wouldn't be a good idea.  I'm not sure
it's necessary if certain people would learn how to communicate with
normal human beings, or at least be more selective in choosing which
messages they respond to.

In another message in this thread, Bob mentions that he thinks flaming
novices for novice errors is inappropriate, but ridiculing experts who
make foolish mistakes is perfectly ok.  I have two questions here.

1. By definition, experts would almost never MAKE novice mistakes, no?
In that case, if someone posts something which should be immediately
obvoius to an expert, then wouldn't it be a fair assumption that the
person is intermediate or novice?

2. Have you ever fucked up?  Even experts have a bad day.  I have
considerable experience with projection booth equipment (35mm is vastly
more complicated than 16mm or 8mm) and I've still done some stupid
things.

Give people a break.  What do you get out of flaming, besides stroking
your ego?  And furthermore, if a question IS worth your time, then it's
worth answering correctly and in a civil manner.  If it isn't worth your
time, then why contradict yourself by posting a scathing flame of the
poster's abilities?  Just ignore it.

Seems pretty clear to me, dunno why others don't see it.  What's the
problem?

----------- The opinions expressed in this article are solely mine. -----------
<Insert lame attempt at disclaimer humor>
sss/PU'94 Dept of CS (spencer@phoenix.princeton.edu)/JvNCnet (spencer@jvnc.net)
"I once believed in causes too / I had my pointless point of view / And life
went on no matter who was wrong or right..."  [Billy Joel, "Angry Young Man"]
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge