Subject: Filk hogs, fact or fiction 
Distribution: world
Organization: Keristor Systems
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 09:31:39 +0000


                   THIS IS NOT A FLAME!
                   --------------------

In article <1992Nov6.052415.27824@lucid.com> lola@lucid.com writes:

Well, lots of things, really <g>!  As one of those people using the term
Big Name Filker, let me first point out that I was *not* referring to
guests.  Lola is perfectly correct that a guest, especially a non-local
one, is in a special position and people have come to see/hear that
person, so of course they get special treatment.  And certainly I agree
that a guest is *not* to be expected to sit around listening to people
who can't sing - although those who *do* will be much appreciated.

The BNFs to whom I (and several others) were referring are those who
have come to the con as ordinary fans, and then try to behave like
royalty.

See another post of mine about taking over filkrooms, as well - if
people want to go off and have a private party, that's fine, but when
they do it in a public room (one posted as 'general filking', or the
bar) and then exclude those not in 'their group', IMO that is definitely
against the interest of the general filkers.

>So, from my experience, the idea that BNF are filk hogs is a myth.

Fine - as long as it is allowed that other people have had different
experiences...

>So set up circles that are precisely labled as "talent no object".  Let those
>who like such sing and play there.  Just don't bitch at those who don't, be
>they BNF or other talentless fen.  You know what you like, and what you don't
>like as far as music goes.  If you stay someplace where you are not having fun,
>that's your problem.  Don't expect the rest of us to do likewise.  Especially
>if we've paid money to come to a con and enjoy ourselves.

How many people would go to such a circle?  I suspect not many.  That's
tending to go back to the "Master / Journeyman / Apprentice / peasant"
idea, where no-one can agree on who goes in which category.

>Yes, beginners have a place.  I make a big distinction between beginners and
>the talentless and clueless.  Part of the reason I go to cons and filks is to
>find new people who I enjoy.  Some people I didn't like at first have worked
>hard and improved, and I've grown to like them.  They've taken what talent> they
>had and worked their tails off.  So I'll give them some slack (unless they> turn
>into filk hogs) for being off key, or hitting wrong chords on the guitar (I
>know, generous of me.  But we're talking here about an event I've spent time
>and money to get to.  I figure I'm allowed to be as critical of filk as I am> of
>a professional concert I go to, or a play I see.  Just because it is fen
>doesn't mean I'll listen if I'm in pain because it's so bad).

Hmm, there's a fine line here.  It is correct that a person shouldn't be
'compelled' to stay somewhere that they're not having fun, or the noise
is causing them pain, but on the other hand they aren't going to get any
better if all the 'good' filkers up and leave.  You are certainly
'allowed' to be as critical of anything as you want - however, if you
are expecting a 'professional concert' from people who are largely
untrained and self-taught, and don't have the time to practice 26 hours
a day, you are likely to be disappointed.

>This is probably not a popular attitude to voice.  However, I wonder how many
>people who go to cons actually feel this way.

You're probably right there.  However, I will certainly defend your
right to voice it...

***********************************************************************
*  chris@keris.demon.co.uk      *                                     *
*  chriscr@cix.compulink.co.uk  *  FIAWOL (Filking Is A Way Of Life)  *
*  100014.3217@compuserve.com   *                                     *
***********************************************************************
Newsgroups: alt.music.filk