HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: starfish@stein.u.washington.edu (Sarah Skovronsky)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: Why alt.folklore.computers should stay in alt (was: leave alt.folklore.computers alone, rmgroup comp.society.folklore)
Date: 5 Nov 92 17:45:19 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Nov5.174519.18637
Organization: University of Washington

mdw@theory.TC.Cornell.EDU (Matt Welsh) writes:

>In article <1992Nov5.000856.15656@pollux.lu.se> magnus@thep.lu.se (Magnus Olsson) writes:

>[Tons of good discussion about moving a.f.c mercifully slain]

>If it ain't broke, don't fix it. There's no reason to quibble about moving
>a.f.c. Maybe it wasn't put in the "right place" to begin with, but for now,
>a.f.c is so deeply rooted in the USENET hierarchy that I can see no reason
>to change it or move it elsewhere. Doing so would only damage its present
>propagation and sense of unity. 

Yes!  I agree completely.  I still fail to see the reason for the hassle
of renaming a newsgroup just so a few more people can read it.  Those who
say "it's not a hassle" and assert that a change of name does not change
the character of a newgroup are misguided, IMHO.  Moving an alt group
lets more people read/post...which is obviously a change of character,
unless all these new people are clones of those who were there before.
Call me xenophobic if you will, but I don't think "mainstreaming" for
mainstreaming's sake is such a great idea.  As has been stated above, 
a move would disturb any "sense of unity"...and...if it ain't broke...

-- 
************************************************************************
*            Sarah Skovronsky     starfish@u.washington.edu            *
*         "Quoth the raven, 'Eat my shorts.'"  --Bart Simpson          *
**********fnord!********furrfu!********hi-keeba!********meep!***********
From: mughal@romeo.caltech.edu (ASIM M MUGHAL)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: Re. soc.religion.islam.ahmadiyya
Date: 9 Nov 1992 15:02 PDT
Organization: California Institute of Technology
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: romeo.caltech.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

In article <BxFHrw.8F6@ccu.umanitoba.ca>, ijaz@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Tahir Ijaz) writes...
> 
> 
>It is because of my belief in the Quran and my belief in the Hadith, that I
>am an Ahmadi Muslim.`
> 
>The narrow-mindedness some people show is unreal.  Who gave you the authority
>to declare my faith and beliefs?  Are you God?
> 
>Let me note here, that in the past I have been unsuccessful in posting letters
>to SRI.  Apparently, my postings do not support the medeival brand of Islam the
>moderators of SRI present, and hence are always rejected.

     Dr. Ijaz, please don't this string start again. There had been plenty of 
     time for you to post your proof. You are proposed as a moderator for the
     group under discussion. Please refrain from allegations. 

     I am sure you understand that a moderator is not influenced by his/her
     own belief and merely follows the guidelines of established group. You
     will be expected to do the same. SRI guidelines do NOT discrimminate
     on the religious beliefs of anyone. 

     Also, I have not revealed any religious affiliation, I am surprised you
     go ahead with your own assumptions.

     Please subscribe/post to S.R.I. to take part in the on-going debate on
     Ahmadi movement. This alone should be enough to convince you that SRI
     allows both view points to be published.

     Regards,

     Asim Mughal
     Moderator,
     Soc.Religion.Islam

> 
>Dr Tahir Ijaz, M.D.
>-- 
>=============        ======     ============      ==       ========
>     ||                ||            ||         //  \\          // 
>     ||                ||            //        ========       //
>     ||       0      ======     =====        //        \\  ========   M.D.
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: stanley@skyking.OCE.ORST.EDU (John Stanley)
Subject: Re: *BAD* music group reorg will not be honored 
Organization: Oregon State University, College of Oceanography
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 17:16:03 GMT

In article <1992Nov9.215449.3831@metrosoft.com> gvh@metrosoft.com (Gordon Van Huizen) writes:
>In article <1992Nov9.175405.13641@daimi.aau.dk> rorschak@daimi.aau.dk  
>(Jesper Lauridsen) writes:
>> There is a distinction between those that show interest towards what
>> 
>Interest isn't the only requirement. That's the problem.

Yes, interest is the only requirement. 

"I am interested only in using USENET, I care naught about how it
works". -- Lack of interest.

"I am using USENET, I wonder how it works? Let's see, grep news
.newsrc. No, I don't know how to do that. Grep newusers .newsrc. No I
don't know how to do that, either. Hey, Admin, where do I find stuff on
how USENET works? No, I don't know that 'root' is the system admin and I
don't know how to use mail, so I can't do that. I know -- post
rec.music.synth 'I want pointers to USENET info.'" -- A modicum of
interest, requiring nothing more than asking questions -- another
indicator of interest.
From: fau@po.CWRU.Edu (Francis A. Uy)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: *BAD* music group reorg will not be honored
Date: 5 Nov 1992 15:27:34 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: fau@po.CWRU.Edu (Francis A. Uy)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Bystander's viewpoint:

To Dave Hayes:

If the CFV was posted to rec.music.synth,
 then the non-voters have nothing to complain
 about.  They missed their chance.

If people exist who cast non-counted NO
 votes, then why don't you pass their names
 along to the vote taker + settle this?
-- 
Francis A. Uy			Program Director, WUMD
Newsgroups: news.groups,alt.politics.perot
From: lon@edsi.plexus.COM (Lon Ponschock)
Subject: Re: RFD: alt.politics.united
Organization: Enterprise Data Systems Incorporated, Appleton WI
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1992 19:11:24 GMT
Keywords: United We Stand

korman@seas.gwu.edu (John Korman) writes:

>In article <Bx650q.HBD@rice.edu> byrd@lucerne.rice.edu (Marc J Byrd) writes:
>>Several in the alt.politics.perot newsgroup have been talking about
>>a newsgroup to discuss the new political party, United We Stand (the
>>United party).  
>>
==>  I also support this group.  Please add to any mailings 
updates and voting times.

lon (sorry for contributing to a cascade) Ponschock
-- 
   Question Recently
   Posed to the Net:'Kukla, Fran & Ollie' which one is which?
   Answer: Tom Servo is Kukla, Crooow is Ollie and Joel is Fran.
   lon@edsi.plexus.com
From: tom@soda.berkeley.edu (Tom Holub)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.games.netrek reorganization
Date: 11 Nov 1992 04:45:12 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley, CS Undergraduate Association
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu

In article <BxIHnn.Cw@uunet.uu.net> adc@tardis.cl.msu.edu (Alan D. Cabrera) writes:
)SUMMARY
)
)This is the Request For Discussion regarding the proposal to split 
)the newsgroup rec.games.netrek, containing discussion of the game 
)netrek.
)
)The proposed groups are .announce .inl .programmer and .d.

I will say up front that I don't feel that the volume in rec.games.netrek
warrants a split, and that the groups I monitor that have recently
undergone splits of this nature have all been adversely affected.

)PROPOSAL
)
)The following groups are proposed:
)
)rec.games.netrek.announce (moderated)
)
)Announcements of new software, documentation, FTP sites, etc.
)Frequently Asked Questions lists may be cross-posted here.
)Urgent notices of serious bugs and their (short) patches.
)
)Moderated by Alan D. Cabrera (adc@tardis.cl.msu.edu). If anyone 
)else is interested in assisting contact Alan.

Does Alan D. Cabrera have the time to do this?  He is, after all,
the one complaining about spending too much time dealing with
the messages on rec.games.netrek.  Perhaps we should find someone
with more time.

)rec.games.netrek.inl
)
)Discussions directly related to the Intercollegiate Netrek 
)League, INL.

As the founder of the INL and as an INL council member, I will say that
I feel that INL discussion does not warrant its own newsgroup, and that
the INL would be affected detrimentally by taking its news traffic out
of the mainstream netrek traffic.  

)rec.games.netrek.programmer (moderated)
)
)Discussions related to the design, programming and management of 
)netrek servers and clients.
)
)Moderated by Alan D. Cabrera (adc@tardis.cl.msu.edu). If anyone 
)else is interested in assisting contact Alan.

Beyond my general dislike of the idea of a split, I'd vehemently
oppose moderation of anything but a .announce group.  

)rec.games.netrek.d
)
)Discussion about netrek which does not fall into any of the other 
)netrek groups' categories. No articles should be cross-posted to 
)r.g.n.d and any of those other groups.

rec.games.netrek.misc would be a better name; .d implies that there is
a moderated group where discussion cannot go on.  I'd still be against
it.
 -Tom
From: randall-joshua@yale.edu (Joshua Randall)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: This has nothing to do with .campaign.
Date: 12 Nov 92 21:55:44 GMT
Organization: Yale University Science & Engineering UNIX(tm), New Haven, CT 06520-2158
NNTP-Posting-Host: minerva.cis.yale.edu

In article <BxM7EM.Mpt@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> cbnorman@cayley.uwaterloo.ca () writes:
>Perhaps you should propose that usenet readers who also read fido should
>not be elligible to vote for any new newsgroups, Josh.  That would solve
>all your problems.

Hey, that's JoshUA to you, Bruce.

No, actually, I'm just going to stop random people in the computing
cluster and force them to send in "NO" votes.  Fighting fire with
fire, I would say....

-- 
Joshua E. Randall                       randall-joshau@yale.edu
From: randall-joshua@yale.edu (Joshua Randall)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: rec.games.frp.campaign
Date: 12 Nov 1992 16:46:37 -0500
Organization: Yale University Science & Engineering UNIX(tm), New Haven, CT 06520-2158
NNTP-Posting-Host: minerva.cis.yale.edu

In article <1992Nov12.110258.1@wharton.upenn.edu> millerl@wharton.upenn.edu writes:
>Actually, rgf.archives *is* moderated. It is moderated in order to keep
>discussion out of it. Any newsgroup designed to include discussion
>should most certainly not be moderated.

Oops...guess I messed up.  Well, my point is still valid:  namely,
that moderated groups are always slower than unmoderated ones.

-- 
Joshua E. Randall                       randall-joshau@yale.edu
Newsgroups: news.groups,news.admin.policy,rec.music.synth
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: *BAD* music group reorg will not be honored
Organization: Homosexual Fascist Lobby, Rampant Paranoia Division
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 00:52:40 GMT

In article <1992Nov9.093222.11245@jato.jpl.nasa.gov> dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov writes:

>Right now, my mailbox has an 80% support ratio.

Dave, you've been on the net long enough to know that this is the
pragmatic equivalent of "my dad can beat up your dad."

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / 
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu / I use antlers in all of my decorating.
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) / 
Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.games.frp.misc
From: cbnorman@cayley.uwaterloo.ca ()
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.games.frp.campaign
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 07:10:20 GMT

In article <GOLDM.92Nov9114756@sage4a.rpi.edu> goldm@rpi.edu (Mitchell E. Gold) writes:
>[Newsgroups line edited to get rid of unnecessary cross-posting]
>
>I repeat my objection to this based on two things:
>1) The traffic on rec.games.frp.archives, the charter of which includes 3/4 of
>  what you propose to cut off, isn't very much (it even somehow escaped being
>  tallied this month on arbitron statistics), and
>2) Discussion of how to play or run frp games already belongs in .misc or .dnd.
>

I believe that a newsgroup devoted to campaigns will not only contain
those messages which already exist in other newsgroups that are related to
the subject.  The Campaign newsgroup will foster new discussions, promote
new interest in campaigning, and serve as the starting ground for many
(I hope) fine net-based story-campaigns that will be enjoyable reading
for all.

You have your beliefs, and I have mine, but in the end it is the net
that will decide.  I'm sure that either of us will accept the results
from a formal CFV.

Xref: sparky news.groups:20897 news.admin.policy:246
From: killer@robin.cs.hut.fi (Kalle Kivimaa)
Newsgroups: news.groups,news.admin.policy
Subject: Re: *BAD* music group reorg will not be honored
Date: 9 Nov 92 21:59:55 GMT
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, CS lab

In <1992Nov9.094324.11431@jato.jpl.nasa.gov> dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Dave Hayes) writes:

>A better one. Dave Hayes, being aware of the readership of r.m.s, just *knew*
>that it would never pass because he *knew* rec.music.synth. Go figure. 

>"And a revote now would almost certainly not pass, now that the readership
>is aware. So THAT'S why so many newsgroup clique people don't wnat a revote

So now you admit that you are using this discussion - which you KNEW
would take place if you started it - as a way to make people vote
your way, because they become frustrated and want to get rid of
the discussion.

That is not only immoral, but also (at least very close to) vote fraud, IMHO.

And do you think that there will be more Yes voters than No voters (for
your proposal) after this discussion.  I wouldn't be so sure.

Besides, it will take you at least 6 weeks (from memory) to make your
proposal to get through. (3 weeks for discussion and 3 for voting).

Hopefully D.L. will send out a newgroup soon.
--
************************************************************************
* The night sky over the planet Krikkit is the least interesting sight *
* in the entire Universe.  -- Douglas Adams, HHGTG                     *
************************************************************************
From: rorschak@daimi.aau.dk (Jesper Lauridsen)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: *BAD* music group reorg will not be honored
Date: 8 Nov 92 16:03:25 GMT
Organization: Xanth Watch

gvh@metrosoft.com (Gordon Van Huizen) writes:

>In article <BxACry.BI2@unix.amherst.edu> twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim  
>Pierce) writes:
>> The very fact that the CFV was crossposted to rec.music.synth was by
>> definition an indication that that group was involved.
>> 
>Evidence to the contrary has been posted.

Has it? I haven't seen any such thing - could you back that statement
with some more facts or are you just using the standard flamewar method
of avoiding to deal with the arguments of your opponents.

>What an amazingly condescending attitude. All we're saying is that the  
>person that posted the RFD's and CFV's should have taken the time to write  
>a subject line that indicated that r.m.s was affected.

Several groups were involved, subject lines are finite, long subjects lines
are unreadable.
-- 
Jesper Lauridsen        |  I survived the rec.arts.sf-lovers split
rorschak@daimi.aau.dk   | 
Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.music.synth
From: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Dave Hayes)
Subject: Re: *BAD* music group reorg will not be honored
Reply-To: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov
Organization: Jet Propulsion Lab - Pasadena, CA
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 22:05:27 GMT

lazlo@triton.unm.edu (Lazlo Nibble) writes:
>What do you mean, "so much for ignorance"?  Do you think the fact that
>they willfully choose to ignore the documentation somehow absolves them
>of the responsibility for knowing what's in that documentation?

You can't tell if someone willfully chose to or unwillingly misunderstood. 
Some people aren't ignorant out of willfullness. 

>What's stopping you from explaining the situation to them?  And do you
>*really* think that the *entire net* should come to a grinding halt for
>the sake of *one single BBS's convenience*? 

I'm not arguing that with you. That's a straw man.
-- 
Dave Hayes - Network & Communications Engineering - JPL / NASA - Pasadena CA
dave@elxr.jpl.nasa.gov       dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov         ...usc!elroy!dxh

The end of the human race will be that it will eventually die of civilization.
Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.music.synth
From: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Dave Hayes)
Subject: Re: *BAD* music group reorg will not be honored
Reply-To: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov
Organization: Jet Propulsion Lab - Pasadena, CA
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 10:24:56 GMT

stanley@skyking.OCE.ORST.EDU (John Stanley) writes:
>News.groups is hardly an elite clique. Joining it for a few weeks is
>hardly going to kill anyone. And anyone who can't be bothered to join
>news.groups for the short time required to talk about a group certainly
>hasn't demonstrated much interest in it. 

I don't know about that one. I see 119 messages about this topic alone.
I've only been gone since Friday Night. Most net people (especially those
using RN) see this and unsubscribe instantly. 

>That is their choice. They are free to make that choice. But, when they
>make that choice, they are then the ones responsible for not knowing
>what is being said in the "news" hierarchy. If they choose not to
>participate in the discussions related to newsgroup creation, then they
>have absolutely no right to complain that they weren't participants in
>the discussion related to newsgroup creation.

This is an elitist, condescending, and unwelcoming attitude to take to
a source of human communication who's readership has doubled over the
past year. There's about a million readers out there who think RFD
is the name of an old TV show with Andy Griffith. What about them?

>The "cadre" of people is hardly elite and has no membership requirements
>other than the willingness to spend the time. 

Really? Tell that to Alok, or KPD. I'm sure there are others...I've watched
you guys for years! If the person making the noise were someone "more
respected" than me, you can bet that it wouldn't go through. 

>If they make the wrong decision, then they are the only ones who are
>responsible for the results.

Hardly. They can't be ignorant and not run the risk of having their group 
named out for under them. Even further, those on BBSes haven't even a say so.
How fair is that?


-- 
Dave Hayes - Network & Communications Engineering - JPL / NASA - Pasadena CA
dave@elxr.jpl.nasa.gov       dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov         ...usc!elroy!dxh

           If you regret your gift - take it back.
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: quito@leland.Stanford.EDU (Marco Quito Perlman)
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.equestrian.racing
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 20:23:05 GMT

I say YES!!!!

--------------------------------------------------------
_P_a_l_m_e_i_r_a_s RULES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
quito@leland.stanford.edu
Disclaimer: I speak for myself, and for no one else!!!!!
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: mmurali@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Magical_Flute)
Subject: Re: RFD: soc.culture.singaporean 
Organization: Dwaraka  
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 09:09:32 GMT

Ho Hiang Kwee (mhkho@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg) wrote:
: 
: Man (mfltan@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg) wrote:
: : >Mar Siew Cheong (escmar@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg) wrote:
: : > Proposed Newsgroup's Name
: : > =========================
: : >   soc.culture.singaporean
: : > 
: :  Its high time to have a group for the Singaporeans. I support the idea.
: :  However, I think the proposed newsgroups's name should be 
: :  "soc.culture.singapore". Easier to call.
: : 
: : Man at The Equator!
: 
: Perhaps it was intentional - to make it clear to a certain vocal Malaysian
: based in Singapore (NTU!) that the proposed newsgroup is for SINGAPOREANS!
: ;-)
: 
: -- 
: Hiang-Kwee Ho                  ||    Internet: mhkho@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg 
: School of Mech. & Prod. Eng.   ||    Bitnet:   mhkho@ntuvax
: Nanyang Technological Univ.,   ||    Phone: +65 799-5499 
: Nanyang Ave., Singapore 2263.  ||    Fax:   +65 791-1859


Mar: ---> I think it is a great idea. What is even better
about it is that NTU has taken the lead and not NUS!!!!!

BTW Ho:--> U mean this chap who has been called Bin-Head
by some of the netters in soc.culture.asean?????


So GO FOR IT !
soc.culture.singaporean
soc.culture.singapore
soc.culture.lion_city
...........let's have a contest for name selection!


-- 
=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o= 
 Murali Damodaran, Sch. of MPE    <> Internet: mmurali@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg     
 Nanyang Technological University <> Bitnet  : mdamodaran@ntuvax           
 Nanyang Avenue, SINGAPORE 2263   <> Phone : 65-799-5599  Fax: 65-791-1859 
Newsgroups: news.groups,news.admin.policy
From: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Dave Hayes)
Subject: Re: *BAD* music group reorg will not be honored
Reply-To: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov
Organization: Jet Propulsion Lab - Pasadena, CA
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 05:13:31 GMT

rorschak@daimi.aau.dk (Jesper Lauridsen) writes:
>>Please speak in accordance with the facts. "Everyone on the net *who could
>>figure out that there was a vote going on* had a chance to voice their
>>opinion."
>Which equals to "everyone on the net *who could figure out how to read".
>That sounds pretty much like everyone on the net to me.

Too much of a leap. Try "who could figure out that the unclear subject of
the article meant that their unrelated newsgroup would be changed".
-- 
Dave Hayes - Network & Communications Engineering - JPL / NASA - Pasadena CA
dave@elxr.jpl.nasa.gov       dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov         ...usc!elroy!dxh

Fool (n.) - 1. A person trying to be honest with the dishonest.
Newsgroups: news.groups,news.admin.policy,rec.music.synth
From: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Dave Hayes)
Subject: Re: Music Group Reorg Disagreement (was Re: *BAD* music group reorg will not be honored)
Reply-To: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov
Organization: Jet Propulsion Lab - Pasadena, CA
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 05:10:18 GMT

twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:
>So then, when I'm reading alt.guitar.tab, I say, "What?  I don't read
>rec.music.synth!  This must be a mistake!" and skip it.
>Three months later, I post an infuriated message to fifteen newsgroups
>reading, "*BAD* music reorg will not be honored!"

What about posting (not crossposting) each rename attempt to two separate
groups...n.a.n and the affected one? That way there's no chance for such
a mistake.
-- 
Dave Hayes - Network & Communications Engineering - JPL / NASA - Pasadena CA
dave@elxr.jpl.nasa.gov       dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov         ...usc!elroy!dxh

Supporter (n.) - 1. Someone who will say anything.
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: More fuel for the music reorg debate
Organization: Elitist Usenet Administrators, Stuff & Nonsense Division
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 06:03:05 GMT

In article <9211110830.AA12739@elxr.jpl.Nasa.Gov> dave@elxr.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Dave Hayes) writes:

><Any group creation request which follows these guidelines to a
>successful result should be honored...except under extraordinary 
>circumstances.

What's so "extraordinary" about this?  I find it much more
extraordinary that of the many objections that were raised to the name
of the recently-passed rec.arts.poems.urdu, none were ever answered.
However, I intend to honor the vote, though it's one of the more
poorly-named groups we've seen in a while.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / 
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu / I use antlers in all of my decorating.
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) / 
Newsgroups: news.groups