HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: "...... to castrate the Hindus ..."
From: shariq@charlie.usd.edu
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 16:48:10 GMT
Reply-To: shariq@charlie.usd.edu
 <1992Dec13.083801.6463@beaver.cs.washington.edu>,<1992Dec13.153757.2511@cbnewsm.cb.att.com>
Organization: The University of South Dakota Computer Science Dept.

In article <1992Dec13.153757.2511@cbnewsm.cb.att.com>, nrai@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (neeraj.rai) writes:
>>philosophy, with Satti, where the wife is burnt with the husband, should
>>he die first, is a important part of Hinduism. If the British and the 
>>present government disallowed it, it does not mean, it goes away. 
>>
>>Women are burnt alive in India, if they donot bring enough Jahez, or dowry
>>and the belief in Satti is alive and well, as it will always be in 
>>Hinduism, no matter how many authors you list, and trips you make to the
>>library.
>>
>>THE FACTS SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES.
>>
>>Best Regards,
>>Shams Hasan.
>>
>
>It is a matter of great shame to see the ignorance of a man who claims to 
>be very intelligent. Nevertheless
>
>	Sati  is not an important part of Hinduism. It has been a practice
>	of some Hindus but not all Hindus. You can think it to be
>	similar to :-
>
>	the practice of a Muslim Father showing the community
>	blood stains on the bedsheet on which his daughter spent first night
>	after her first marriage to prove to the world that SHE WAS A VIRGIN.
>
        Oh I am really surprised! Wherever did you get this information?
>
>	I believe you will tell me that it is not written in Quran. And,
>	I would believe what you tell me because I have not read Quran
>	and you may have.
>
>	Anyway, So Sati is not a part of Hinduism because 
>	
>	IT IS NOT MENTIONED IN ETERNAL BOOKS OF HINDUISM. 
>
>
>	HINDUISIM = SHRUTI   +   SMRITI
>
>	SHRUTI is revelation and contains pure philosphy about the world
>	god, human existence, who we are? What should our purpose be etc.
>
>	And, SMRITI means it was thought and written. One of the most
>	famous SMRITI's have been Manu SAMRITI which contained the division
>	of the society in four classes:namely Brahman, Shatriya, Vaishya,
>	and Shudra. Manu never claimed it to be the word of GOD and most 
>	Hindus realize that. Samriti's typically have changed from time to 
>	time because these consist laws of behaviour. 
>
>	I CAN FIND FAULT WITH ISLAMIC TRADITIONS ALSO BUT I CHOOSE NOT TO DO
>	SO BECAUSE IT IS NONE OF MY BUSINESS AND BESIDES I AM NOT KNOWLEDGABLE
>	ABOUT IT. 
>
>	
>	ALSO SATI was not stopped by BRITISHERS but a HINDU Social Reformer
>	Raja Ram MOhan Rai had BRITISHERS bann this on the basis of the fact
>	that TRADITION of SATI is  not a part of Hindu Religion. 
>
>
>
>
>						NEERAJ RAI
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.arabic,soc.culture.afghanistan,soc.culture.iranian
From: akn8257@ultb.isc.rit.edu (A.K. Natesan)
Subject: Re: Destruction of Babri Mosque? ...yeah..?
Originator: akn8257@ultb
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 21:12:25 GMT

In article <1g3qt3INN4lo@crcnis1.unl.edu> fall266@cse.unl.edu () writes:
>Who thinks that Ahmadi are muslims? no one.
> 
>As far as persecution of Ahmadisi is concerned, after reading your letter,  I belive that It is least any one can do.
>
>

Xref: sparky soc.culture.indian:40757 soc.culture.pakistan:18148
From: hyder@cs.utexas.edu (Syed Irfan Hyder)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Who's doing the killings...
Date: 14 Dec 1992 15:45:54 -0600
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: pageboy.cs.utexas.edu

In article <1gifoiINN4hq@tamsun.tamu.edu> gagrawal@cs.tamu.edu (Gopal Agrawal) writes:
|In article <lioealINN61f@pageboy.cs.utexas.edu| hyder@cs.utexas.edu (Syed Irfan Hyder) writes:
||
||Without doubt my prayers, my sacrifices, my life, my death
||are for Allah who is the provider of all the worlds. 
||	[my rememberance of a verse in Quran]
||
||If I do not subscribe to the above, then all of myself be
||for my own self-profit!
||
|It still doesn't make much sense.  If you don't subscribe 
|to the above, then how does it necessarily become for your 
|own self-profit. There are plenty of people who are athiests
|and have devoted their life to some cause or another (altruistic
|ones).  

Simple. 

If I  have devoted my  prayers, my sacrifices, my 
life and my death to a certain object  "X". and my ownself is not "X".
Then, certainly I am the worshiper of "X". As such, my religion is 
X or from X or for  X. Any way, I have some religion.

So, religion of non-religion can only be when X is me, myself.
And, hence, religion of non-religion is self-profit.

|
|As far as I'm concerned, I do everything for Self-profit. 
|That includes trying to live in a more peaceful and 
|progressive environment which is a sufficent motive for 
|me to occasionally resort to what people call altruistic 
|acts. 

Let's add another dimension to this life i.e. Hereafter.

Then a "true" Muslim also 
does every thing for his own "self-profit". 

However, he expects
the real profit, not here, but in the hereafter!!!

Na zamaaN na MakaaN La illaha ill al Allah
			[Iqbal]

Neither time nor space, There is no god, but Allah



Xref: sparky soc.culture.indian:41163 soc.culture.pakistan:18349
From: rangana@cs.uwindsor.ca (RANGANATHAN A            )
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Sati's history
Date: 17 Dec 1992 16:27:46 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.indian
Organization: University of Windsor, Ontario, Canada

In article <misdeva-141292132835@morse-college-kstar-node.net.yale.edu> misdeva@yalevm.ycc.yale.edu (Devjani Mishra) writes:
>A couple of clarifications, which I believe are necessary:

>"Sati" = literally, a true and pure woman/wife, from the former incarnation
>of Parvati.  Sati immolated herself through the force of her prayers
>because her father would not permit her to become the wife of Lord Shiva.
		   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Wrong, her father could not accept the fact that she choose to marry Lord Shiva
He insisted on ignoring the fact that Lord Shivam was his son-in-law and tried
to humiliate him whenever possible.

This culminated with Sati immolating herself after vowing to be born to a more
humane person (King Himalya), in order to win the love of Lord Shiva and 
eventually marry him.

>"Jauhar" = practice of the women of the palace burning themselves en masse
>lest a conquering army dishonor them.  In some palaces in Rajasthan you can
>still see the handprints of red alta on the walls that women made before
>they jumped into the flames.  

Rani Padmini of Chittoor commited Jauhar.
 

Arathi.


-- 
Happiness ? That's nothing more than health and a poor memory.
			- Albert Schweitzer (1875-1965)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: mbhat@pcserver2.Naitc.Com (Manoj Bhat)
Subject: Proud to be a Hindu !!!!
Organization: AC Nielsen Co.
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 18:45:44 GMT

I'm not a member of (or have ever been) BJP/VHP/RSS, but am a Hindu and proud
of it. Whatever happened at Ayodhya was'nt because of Hinduism but
due to Indian politics.  So why be ashamed of being a Hindu ?

I also feel its unjustified to blame the BJP/VHP . Knowing Indian politics, it
could very well have been Cong-I behind the demolition of the mosque, with
the intent of bringing down the BJP government.   

Instead of bickering amongst ourselves we should protest to the damn Pakistan/
B'desh govts to stop destroying Hindu lives and property. I really pity
Hindus living in these countries. First, they are at the mercy of the 
Muslim government and second, most of the Hindus and the Indian Govt. 
don't give a damn about them or what happens to them. Indian muslims , on
the other hand, have a lot of political clout (in India) and backing from
other Islamic countries.

On the positive side, I think Hindus were united for a cause and succeeded
in kicking some butt, after a very long time. 

For all morons who are so ashamed of being Hindus after what happened, why
don't you : 
(a) change your religion and/or
(b) jump into the nearest lake/river/ocean as a protest ?

Jai Hind.

Manoj Bhat
From: ycp@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (yogesh.c.patel)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: GANDHI AND ATOM BOMB
Keywords: Gandhi
Date: 13 Dec 92 16:42:45 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbnewsm.1992Dec13.164245.3424
Organization: AT&T


Followings are the quotes of Gandhi taken from 
the book titled "The words of Gandhi" selected by
Richard Attenborough.

=======================================================
"Nonviolence is the only thing that the atom bomb cannot
distroy. I did not move a muscle when I first heard that 
the atom bomb had wiped out Hiroshima. On the contrary, 
I said to myself, Unless now the world adopts nonviolence, 
it will spell certain suicide for mankind."

"It has been suggested by American friends that the atom
bomb will bring 'ahimsa' (nonviolence) as nothing else can.
It will, if it is meant that its destructive power will
so disgust the world that it will turn it away from violence
for the time being. This is very like a man glutting himself
with dainties to the point of nausea and turning away from 
them only to return with redoubled zeal after the effect of 
nausea is well over. Precisely in the same manner will the 
world return to violence with renewed zeal after the effect 
of disgust is worn out."

"Often does good come out of evil. But that is God's, 
not man's plan. Man knows that only evil can come out of
evil, as good out of good."

"So far as I can see, the atomic bomb has deadened the finest
feeling that has sustained mankind for ages. There used to be
so called laws of war which made it tolerable. Now we know 
the naked truth. War knows no law except that of might. The
atom bomb brought an empty victory to the allied armies but it
resulted for the time being in destroying the soul of Japan.
What has happened to the soul of the destroying nation is yet
too early to see. Forces of nature act in a mysterious manner.
We can but solve the mystery by deducing the unknown result from
the known result of similar events. A slaveholder cannot hold
a slave without putting himself or his deputy in the cage holding
the slave. Let no one run away with the idea that I wish to put in
a defence of Japanese misdeeds in the pursuance of Japan's unworthy
ambition. The difference was only one of degree. I assume that 
Japan's greed was more unworthy. But the greater unworthiness 
conferred no right on the less unworthy of destroying without mercy 
men, women and children of Japan in a particular area."
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: narayana@psuvax1.cs.psu.edu (Kuram T Narayana)
Subject: Re: BJP Governments Thrown Out. Its Good! Its Good!
Organization: Penn State Computer Science
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 19:24:25 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.185241.12550@news.uakron.edu> misra@charles.polymer.uakron.edu (Sanjay Misra) writes:
>In article <BzD2t4.7u0@cs.psu.edu>, narayana@psuvax1.cs.psu.edu (Kuram T Narayana) writes:
>|> In article <1992Dec16.161203.4471@news.uakron.edu> misra@charles.polymer.uakron.edu (Sanjay Misra) writes:
>|> >	
>|> >	Misra ji opines on why dismissing BJP goverments is gooo...d
>
>	...kt boss writes	
> 
>|> From all accounts of RSS that I heard of, there is no such thing as 
>|> membership of RSS. People volunteer into their services to RSS. So
>|> banning RSS is not going to do a darn thing, except fooling a bunch
>|> of pseudo-intellectuals. Get that to your mind. Don't try to live
>|> a pipe dream. As for as I know VHP also lives on the criteria of 
>|> symbpathizers, and donations from them. I seriously doubt if they
>|> also have such a thing as char anna membership. Only ABVP has such
>|> notion of membership. So quit all this crap about banning RSS/VHP 
>|> doing good and all that. This is what I call needing a Reality Check!
>|> 
>|> ...kt
>
>	Reality check indeed. For one how about the fact that fanatics
>	and the unemployed will no longer have a large banner to collect
>	under. As splinter groups of the far right they can be dealt
>	with far more effectively. Or would you rather wait till 
>	Pilot Baba becomes the PM and Balti Baba becomes the Foreign
>	Minister. Heck, why leave out Ram Lak^han and Bab^loo~. But
>	don't get your hopes too high ;). NirRmala will be working
>	for Jewish causes before Ram Lak^han becomes the Minister for Defence.  
It doesn't make a difference whether  the org. is open or closed.
Funding will come about. Yes it si a bit harder. But not that much 
to make a difference. 
>
>	Ok, even if these measure do not rid the country of religion based nonsense
>	they will at least make it more difficult. For example it would be
>	tougher to get 200000 kar sevaks to collect at one place at the same
>	time. So even if some real intellectuals are miffed and pseudo
>	intellectuals are fooled the end result will be that the largely
>	pragmatic population of India will benefit.
>
What do you think you need Karsevaks for? The Masjid is down. It is over.
Pulling  down the idol from the site puts the burden on PV for eternity.
So where is this need for Karsevaks? To build a temple that is already there.
The problem now is not of RSS/BJP/VHP variety. It has become PV's
problem and pseudo-intellectauls nightmare.

>
>	Bye Bye
>
>	Sanjay 

Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.tamil
From: srin@cs.cornell.edu (Aravind Srinivasan)
Subject: Thiruppaavai Verse 3
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Cornell Univ., Ithaca NY
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 19:05:25 GMT


I am posting this on behalf of 
Dr. K. Srinivasan (srini@ireq-num.hydro.qc.ca).

Regards,
Aravind.

===================================================================

\height=660 \width=460 \leftmargin=10 \C
\(TAMIL20) 3. raagam: poorvi kalyaaNi
\beginbox
Ongi ulagaLandha uththaman pEr paadi
naangaL nam paavaikku(ch) chaatri neeraadinaal
theenginRi naadellaam thingaL mum maari peydhu
Ongu peRum senN nel oodu kayalugaLa(p)
poonguvaLai(p) pOdhil poRi vandu kaN paduppa(th)
thEngaadhE pukkirundhu seerththa mulai patri
vaanga kudam niRaikkum vaLLal perum pasukkaL
neengaadha selvam niRaindhElOr embaavaay
\endbox

\c \J
If we (naangaL) bathe (neeraadinaal) and perform our (nam) 'paavai nOnbu'
(paavaikku chaatri), chanting (paadi) the name (pEr) of the best Lord
(uththaman), who measured (aLandha) all three (Ongi) worlds (ulagu). The whole
(ellaam) country (naadu) will be free of (inRi) evil (theengu). It will rain
(peydhu) three rainfalls (mum maari) every month (thingaL). Little fish
(kayal) will play (ugaLa) amidst (oodu) overgrown (Ongu) big (perum) rice
fields (sen nel); bright (poRi) beas (vandu) lieing drowsily over (kaN
paduppa) the flower bushes (poonguvaLai); Cows standing (pukkirundhu)
motionless (thEngaadhE), cowherds milking (seerththa mulai patri vaanga), the
generous (vaLLal) and big (perum) cows (pasu) fill up (niRaikkum) the
containers (kudam); the land will be filled with (niRaindhu) long lasting
(neengaadha) prosperity (chelvam).
\j
From: shankar@sgi.com (Shankar Unni)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Army in India [was Re: 3 BJP ruled state govts. dismissed]
Date: 17 Dec 92 03:30:34 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: boris.wpd.sgi.com
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

BL0528540-Satwant Singh ALC2505 (satwant@regulus.att.com) wrote:
> 
> In fact, any potential dectator had just missed a bunch
> of very good excuses to overthrow the central
> government (the same very excuses used against state Govts).

I think not.

The one big difference between India and Pakistan is that India's army
is extremely apolitical. Probably by design, since successive
governments keep tinkering with the armed forces' command structure
and transfer officers at whim.

And the armed forces cannot really do much about this, because they
are not organized enough for that (a chicken-and-egg problem).
--
Shankar Unni				E-Mail:	shankar@sgi.com
Silicon Graphics Inc.			Phone:	+1-415-390-2072
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: varma@sbnsld.physics.sunysb.edu
Subject: Dismissal of BJP ruled states and sparing BMAC from the list of banned parties
Organization: State University of New York at Stony Brook, Nuclear Physics
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 17:50:10 GMT

I think our dear Prime Minister by selectively banning a few fanatical parties
and sparing the BMAC and then going a step further and dismissing the BJP Govt
in the three states has ignited a time bomb which sooner or later is going to
explode. I would say that it is a very myopic vision which prompted these
people to do this. It is like locking the monster and wishing that it will
disappear. I hope I am wrong and hope Allah forbids it but supressing the
majority has never really helped. This appeasement policy of the Congress Govt
has landed us in such a soup and as far as I can see it there is much more
trouble ahead if the govt proceeds with such myopic vision as it has been
doing for the last 45 years. What does PM think that if he dismisses these Govt
they will not be able to get elected again whenever the next elections are held
Infact he is doing the same for BJP as the Vice President of US of A did for
a TV serial. They will come back with much larger numbers and then it is going
to be much worse.
The BJP was a constitutionally elected Govt and just to appease the Muslims
without giving any thought to the consequences his future actions would have
the congress party has again made a mess. By shelving the problem they are
making things worse for our country. It is a very hopeless situation and I
sincerely do not see any light at the end of a dark tunnel. At times like this
one remembers a leader like Gandhi. All said and done that man had one great
quality. He knew how to take the majority along with him. I wish we could
have someone like him with a vision to take us out of this mess.
From: manas@saryu.cs.umd.edu (Manas Saksena)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Somalia and Ayodhya (was Re: India -PVNR Indignant )
Date: 14 Dec 92 17:22:42 GMT
Reply-To: manas@cs.umd.edu


In article <1992Dec14.060254.3142@news.uiowa.edu>, rachada@icaen.uiowa.edu (Ramakrishna Chada) writes:
>Let me also say that the destruction of the mosque standing over the temple
>was not so much as to honour Ram, but more of the fear of an India in which
>the Hindus would be oppressed. Of a state where there are two laws. One
>for muslim one for others. A state where one huge section of the population
>are more loyal to a neighbouring country than the one in which they are.
>State sponsored appeasement is very much existent and this is what the fight
>is about.
>
>Ramakrishna
>


And please tell us also how the destruction of the mosque helps in achieving
things like uniform civil code. If anything it is a step back in that direction
as argued by other netters. Would you please care to enlighten us with your
insights into this matter? 

Manas Saksena
From: gopal@rwja.umdnj.edu (Srihari Gopal)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: GIFS of Madhuri Dixit on a.b.p.m.
Summary: Madhuri Dixit Gifs
Keywords: GIFS of Madhuri Dixit
Date: 13 Dec 92 20:14:12 GMT
Distribution: soc.culture.indian
Organization: Robert Wood Johnson Medical School, Piscataway NJ

Hey everyone:

Sorry to change the subject a little, but I figured everyone would want
to know that I just posted a picture of Madhuri Dixit on
"alt.binaries.pictures.misc" Its an encoded GIF file in one piece.

Enjoy
Srihari Gopal
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.pakistan
From: f43703a@nucc.cc.nagoya-u.ac.jp (SUPRATIC GUPTA)
Subject: How about froming a group called SCR.Indian_Subcontinent
Organization: Nagoya University Computation Center, Nagoya, Japan.
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 02:17:13 GMT


Dear friends,

     There seem to be a lot of objection of taking Religion in
SCP, SCI, and SCP. Though, Religion is an important part of what
we want to talk, Though most of the problems that we speak leads
to religious problem, why nnot have a seperate UNMODERATED group
to talk about it.

     Another problem is that there is a lot of cross-posting and
waste of band width. It can be solved by talking related inter-country
problems in it. It will not eliminate Cross posting, but will
surely decrease the nuber if cross posting. 

    All these countries seem to face a problem.

1) I am not a member of this country. So I should not write in this
group. 

2) Many people object to posting that some time are cross posted
for the benifit of reader, but the topic really does not belong
to this group.

3) Like the Indian and Pak troops in Somalia in the same side,
This group can form the first step of bond between this country.

4) Any topic, that can help this sub-continent can be discussed here.
In future, no one should say, "I don't want to read religion here".
That is why I put Religion in the name of the Group

Yes The name should be

     soc.culture.religion.Indian-subcontinent.

Keeping culture.religion any other name are also invited. 

Shakil, What do you think? This will be a appropriate forum
for us to meet, Don't you think it is true?

All internal affairs of any of this countries, that may interest
other country should be discussed here.         

All are wellcome.
I am great in committing Sppeeelling Mistakis
Please forgive mi!!!!!
I don't know how to initiate this process of forming this group.
Will some one take it up?
I will be thankful to you.     


NOTE :

WE NEED A UNITED FORUM TO DISCUSS PROBLEMS THAT RELATE ALL THESE
COUNTRIES


-- 
With regards

SUPRATIC GUPTA

Xref: sparky soc.culture.indian:40639 soc.culture.pakistan:18086 soc.culture.bangladesh:6718
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Apologies RE: Babri Masjid
From: yea027@marshall.wvnet.edu
Date: 13 Dec 92 00:44:41 -0500
Organization: Marshall University

I made a post earlier about the Babri Masjid, and I want to apologize for
coming across wrong.  What I wrote was not to ask people to beat each other and
to destroy each other's holy places.  The only thing that has accomplished is
setting off some really bad emotions.  When I said that Muslims have to
respond, I did not mean that they had to tear down a temple to get even. 
Indeed not.  But what I did mean was that they should not allow a temple to
replace the Mosque.  That much is only fair.  When people get into tearing down
each other's holy places, the result is emotional responses as we have seen in
the past few days.  The real answer would be to have the Mosque rebuilt and
whatever damage has been done to either side to either be forgiven on both
sides if damages have gotten to be too much on both sides, or for both sides to
compensate for the damage they have done (long winded sentence. :^)  )
	I have been asked whether I as a Muslim apologize for what Muslims have
done.  I cannot take responsibility for other people's actions.  No, neither
side should have responded the way they did.  I think most people would agree
with this.  But I would not promote Muslims breaking down temples nor Hindus
breaking down Mosques.  The only thing that will do on both sides is get people
angry.  The answer to this problem is stronger governmental protection of the
minorities in any country.  Under Islam, non-Muslims are protected from hatred
and crime.  What Muslims have done is responded out of frustration not out of
what their religion tells them.
	I pray that with the will of God, such actions will not happen again
from either side.  I am sorry for sparking flames.  It was not my intention,
only to ask that recompensation be made for the torn down Mosque whether it was
being used or not.  I hope this clears up things with those who have responded
to my previous posting.
Mariam
Xref: sparky soc.culture.indian:41345 soc.culture.pakistan:18455
From: thakar@nauvax.ucc.nau.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Finally ha ha ha Ind won the 3rd oneday match against SA
Date: 11 Dec 92 21:44:44 GMT
Organization: Northern Arizona University


SA 214 for 5 in 50 overs
Ind 215/6  49.1 overs Raman score 113 before getting out
not out batsman were R Shastri and Our hero Kiran More.
they score 12 runs in 49 the over off Alan Donald.
and 1(?)run in the first ball off 50th over.

Utpal
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian