From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne)
Newsgroups: alt.feminism
Subject: Re: Women's Studies
Keywords: Feminism
Date: 1 Sep 92 00:33:04 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <1992Aug31.213536.17806@athena.mit.edu> standish@athena.mit.edu (Mark S Farrar) writes:
>
>	First off, I work in a library and I know that there is
>	an area of research commonly referred to as "Men's Studies".
>	More progressive book stores also have Men's Studies areas.
>	And, some would argue that everything that hasn't been 
>	specifically set forth to be Women's Studies could be 
>	considered tainted to the point of being automatically
>	Men's Studies.

I suspect that the argument would be bogus. They would not me "men's
studies" in the same sense as in "woman's studies", but rather subjects
in which men are a majority. 
 
>	Anyway, I wanted to post about Women's Studies classes.  I
>	have taken 2 classes, not a huge sample I admit, and I enjoyed
>	both of them.  I also did quite well in them because at some
>	point I think the teacher and a number of people in the class
>	appreciated the fact that I was trying to learn more about
>	women's issues and the history of feminism.  At times I felt 
>	some male bashing going on, but I find our society pretty

It gives me a warm feeling to know that I can be subjected to "male
bashing" everywhere, but it is not personal. Obviously, I have no idea
what either "men's" studies or "women's" studies must be about, as both
seem to involve male bashing.

I tend to think that anyone whop puts up with long term bashing (of
any sort) has passed through "thick skinned" to dead or stupid. Your
milage may vary.

>	indefensible and that males ARE largely responsible for it.

Oddly enough, I do not see these things. Not rarely, but I have not seen
them at all. If the problem was as endemic as the postings would indicate,
I should be able to see it anywhere, anytime. I'm sure that these things
-do- happen, but not as the norm, as exceptions. Some have even posted
equal treatment as examples of blatant sexism, although later posts were
good examples of sexism.

>	Besides, I can't take personal responsibility for everything
>	ever done by every male for all of time, and I think most 

Oh, then obvoiusly blanket male bashing must be OK, and you have no
problem with guilt by implication. 

>	people know that.  But, I did feel bad at times, because I
>	am a member of this society and I am a white male.  I did 
>	feel some resentment from some people who obviously thought
>	I didn't belong in those classes, but they were the minority.
>	I say if you're interested in the classes, you should continue
>	to take them.  If you're there to learn and occaisionally 
>	participate they'll eventually appreciate your effort.  My 
>	biggest problem with the classes were when an effort was made 
>	to solicit a "male's opinion".  The classes only had 2-5 males
>	in them, or about 5-10% of the class, and I resented being 
>	thought to have a typical male opinion on a given subject.  At
>	those moments I refused to participate, but at other moments I
>	would offer up my thoughts freely and it was always fine...
>
>	So, I actually wanted to know what people thought about this
>	new women's group in NY, the name of which escapes me, that is
>	based on the ACT UP organization.  Supposedly, men are not 
>	allowed to attend their meetings, because they inhibit women
>	from speaking up (I believe this was the justification).  Men
>	can participate in their rallies and marches.  I want to know
>	what people think of this rule.  Are they dooming themselves
>	to the same fate as men only organizations?  I can understand
>	emotionally why men are being excluded, but intellectually I
>	have problems with it.  How can discriminatory behavior hope 
>	to correct a discriminatory system?  Fight fire with fire until
>	everyone burns?

Oddly, while everyone has aggreed that if sexism is the probem, it cannot
be the answer, almost eveyone seems to think that anti-male discrimination
is OK. Either they do not understand the statement, or I must not.
 
>	Well, I'm interested in everyone's thoughts...
>
>	Thanks for your time and hopefully your opinions...
>
>	Mark
>	standish@athena.mit.edu
>
> 
Rich

payner@netcom.com

>
Newsgroups: alt.feminism