HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ayr@gtech.com (Aleksey Y. Romanov)
Subject: Re: Philip Morris
Organization: GTECH Corporation, West Greenwich RI
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 20:57:21 GMT

In article <1992Sep14.200457.39248@watson.ibm.com> oleg@watson.ibm.com (Oleg Vishnepolsky) writes:
>In  <192pk9INNgo1@rodan.UU.NET>  avg@rodan.UU.NET (Vadim Antonov) writes:
>> In article <190os0INNuv@agate.berkeley.edu> muh@physics.Berkeley.EDU (Yury M. Mukharsky) writes:
>> >"Esli vy ne zhivete to vam i ne umirat'".
>>
>> A line from VV's song if i recall correctly.
>
>If I recall correctly, this song was written by Vadim (?) Chernyak
>in late 60s, early 70s.
At list I heard it in TV movie "_Ironia _Sud'by".



-- 
Aleksey Y. Romanov

DISCLAIMER: The views expressed are entirely my own and do not
necessary reflect those of my employer or anyone else
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: oleg@watson.ibm.com (Oleg Vishnepolsky)
Subject: Re: A Flaming Idea
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1992 17:03:13 GMT
News-Software: IBM OS/2 PM RN (NR/2) v0.11 by O. Vishnepolsky and R. Rogers
Reply-To: oleg@watson.ibm.com (Oleg Vishnepolsky)
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: The Internet

In  <SCS-L%92090810394127@INDYCMS.BITNET>  SCATTONL@snycenvm.bitnet
("Linda H. Scatton") writes:
> Re: the possibility of Gogol's homosexuality

Why the hell is Gogol's sexual orientation important ? There are equally
interesting rumors that George Washington was peeing in his bed until
age 12.

Oleg
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: oleg@watson.ibm.com (Oleg Vishnepolsky)
Subject: Re: Philip Morris
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 20:04:57 GMT
News-Software: IBM OS/2 PM RN (NR/2) v0.12 by O. Vishnepolsky and R. Rogers
Reply-To: oleg@watson.ibm.com (Oleg Vishnepolsky)
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

In  <192pk9INNgo1@rodan.UU.NET>  avg@rodan.UU.NET (Vadim Antonov) writes:
> In article <190os0INNuv@agate.berkeley.edu> muh@physics.Berkeley.EDU (Yury M. Mukharsky) writes:
> >"Esli vy ne zhivete to vam i ne umirat'".
>
> A line from VV's song if i recall correctly.

If I recall correctly, this song was written by Vadim (?) Chernyak
in late 60s, early 70s.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet,talk.politics.soviet
From: f33012l@puukko.hut.fi (Janne Kivel{)
Subject: Re: ESTONIA and human rights (Was: "demo
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 08:02:29 GMT

muh@physics.Berkeley.EDU (Yury M. Mukharsky) writes:

>>I would argue. Many people would argue. Fact is that very few
>>countries outside the East Bloc recognized the "annexation"
>>as legal.
>
>You may argue that ESSR existed, you may argue on other things, too. However
>it did exist. What is you definition of legal recognition? All countries
>were dealing with Estonia through Moscow. They were not pretending that
>Estonia is independend state. (I would even guess that 90% of them did not
>care). I'm not saying that annexation was legel, after all, i'm saying
>that it was, and people are to deal with the result of this. 

Not all countries recognized East Germany either. It wasn't the people
of former DDR that wanted to live in a separate state from their 
western countrymen. From the West Germans' standpoint DDR never was
legally another country, though in people's minds it might have been.

ESSR was about as artificial creation as DDR.

>As I already wrote, from legal point of view, revival from Russian empire is
>not worse than revival of Estonian republic. And about as much realistic.
>It is different world.

Revival of Estonian republic is one approach to the issue, not necessarily
the most diplomatically successful one. Estonia was a legally recognized
country when it was annexed to the USSR, so the Estonian's point of view
does seem to be logical. 

>Yury

Janne Kivela"
From: alex@took.enet.dec.com ("Alex Allister Shvartsman, EMF,              LKG2-2/T2 10-Sep-1992 1242")
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: "democratic" Estonia
Date: 10 Sep 92 16:46:39 GMT
Reply-To: "soc.culture.soviet via ListServ" <SCS-L@indycms.iupui.edu>

> Ever travelled to Estonia? Even in the years of Soviet Empire's
> prosperity the street names were in Estonian, the local broadcasting
> company and newspapers were in Estonian, Estonian was taught in
> schools (as well as Russian), internal documents forms were in two
> languages and the local Academy of Science had a known professor
> who with his numerous pupils made his dissertation on an Estonian
> word processor. I was in Tallinn more than once, so i can tell it
> not from the yellow tabloids you're using as sources.

If this is the case, why did the Russo-lingual residents of Estonia
fail to learn Estonian? Were they all bad students? As I said before,
instead of whining, they should dust off their high school textbooks
and recall a few lessons.

Alex
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti)
Subject: Re: "democratic" Estonia
Organization: University of Jyvaskyla, Finland
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 05:28:58 GMT

: 
: Yuck. Russians ARE a majority in Kazakhstan. The poor guy did not
: his homework.

According to the Information sheet of Finnish - Russian Chambre of
Commerce the largest ethnic group are the kazahks in Kazakhstan along
1989 cencus. This bulletin  I have got couple days ago.
So Martti Valkonen, the reporter of Helsingin Sanomat is quite
obviously right and Vadim wrong.
: 
: I'd say the learning of a particular language as a condition to
: obtaining citizenship (and as a cause for denying rights to posess 
: property) is totally outrageous and constitue a gross violation
: of basic human rights. Yes, someone needed to know Russian to be able
: to run an enterprise (as well as in the US you need to speak English to
: be able to get some something more well-paid than sweeping floors). But
: nobody is and was threatened to get expelled for failing to learn.
: 
Vadim is  probably a "product " of a closed society, communism.
As an example I mention following you cannot get swiss citizenship
 without passing a language
test and it is very difficult. In Finland you have to pass a language
test in a spoken Finnish, the certificate can be obtained from the legalized
Finnish
teachers in Finland. Quite decent demands, how you can cope in a society
if you do not understand the language at all. And how you can apply
citizenship of a state which language you do not want to learn. Quite
logical.
Uzbekistan,Estonia etc. are just following a common european praxis.
Vadim have no idea about that?
Vadim? and his mother country has been closed from the rest of the world
so long time that a lot of information is needed before they reach the
rest of Europe in these kind things as in many others too.
Otherwise I cannot understand this total lack of basic information they seem
to miss.

Jarmo

: --vadim
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Cultural differences (Was Re: Who Is Afraid Of Patricia Schwarz?)
From: leonid@tuna.uchicago.edu (Leonid Andreev)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 15:40:44 GMT
 u> <1992Sep11.134141.28885@gtech.com><1992Sep11.144730.19204@watson.ibm.com>
Organization: University of Chicago CILS


Aleksey Y. Romanov writes:

   > There is one big SOVOK( and xSOVOK)/american cultural difference: we(SOVOKs and
   > xSOVOKs)  are untolerant to the idiotism. 

And to all the other things in the world as well.

Oleg Vishnepolsky writes:

   > Russians are a lot less afraid of insulting each other during arguments...
 
Are you really proud of it? ( I'm not trying to blame you, I just
didn't get your point... )

Sincerely,
 
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
| Leonid S Andreev,    Center for Information and Language Studies,  |
|  (312) 955 5012        University of Chicago, Chicago IL, 60637.   |
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: ayr@gtech.com (Aleksey Y. Romanov)
Subject: Kestler
Organization: GTECH Corporation, West Greenwich RI
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 20:16:23 GMT


Hi,

Can anybody help me with refernce to the English edition of
_Kestler (sp ?) "_Slepyashaya _t'ma"

Thanks in advance

-- 
Aleksey Y. Romanov

DISCLAIMER: The views expressed are entirely my own and do not
necessary reflect those of my employer or anyone else
From: patricia@cco.caltech.edu (Patricia M. Schwarz)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Bulgakov
Date: 9 Sep 92 09:29:39 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena

>Talent is not equal to saintness. 
>It's more from God -

>Igor Belichinsky

I agree. I hate the idea that we should force artists to lead society
in some fixed direction. Gogol seems to me antisemitic, and some parts
of some of his stories make me uncomfortable, when he talks about Jews.
But I love his writing too much to be "correct." 

-from the idiot whom Igor so openly despises
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: fed@sovet.cntc.dubna.su (E.D.Fedyunkin)
Subject: Re: Re: Bulgakov
Reply-To: fed@sovet.cntc.dubna.su
Organization: Dubna Counsil
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 92 12:34:58 +0300

In: <88273@netnews.upenn.edu> sergei@upenn5.hep.upenn.edu (Sergei Borodin) writes:

>    He [Dostoevskiy] was a distinct antisemite. Take a look
>    (I guess you did) at the volume 25 of his  PSS.

     Yes, it's truth. He was antisemite and great writer at the same time.
Men aren't black/white.

>    I bet Galya would not like her dollars being spent in support of such
>   a bastard. (Does she know he's dead, though)
      ^^^^^^^
     Hmm! So simply?

In: <88268@netnews.upenn.edu> sergei@upenn5.hep.upenn.edu (Sergei Borodin) writes:

>   In article <SCS-L%92090815311665@INDYCMS.BITNET> "soc.culture.soviet via ListServ" <SCS-L@indycms.iupui.edu> writes:
>
>   >I probably was out of the 'real world' for a while, 'cause I learn more and
>   >more 'well-known' facts in this forum.  What are the evidences of Bulgakov's
>   >anti-semitism?
>
>    Remember "Sobachje Serdtse"?  It might be questionable, but I beleive
>   that Shvonder was a Jew. Last name sounds Jewish and he was described
>   as black haired.
>    So, Philipp Philippovich, absolutely nice and gorgeous person said once:
>   "Ja by etogo Shvondera, chestnoe slovo, povesil by na pervom suku" -
>   skazal Philipp Philippovich, vgryzajas' v krylo indushki." (Quotation
>   from my  memory).
>
>    Isn't that a call to exterminate Jews?
>
>    Or take "Master & ..", what about criticist Latunsky? Very vile person.
>    Or succesfully killed Berlioz?
>    How bad fin. director Rymsky looks.  And all that are just from the
>   "top of my head".
>
>    And after all that you're asking about the evidences?

     Oh, yes! Bulgakov was antisemite and ... "rusofob" in the same time!
Remember "Master & ..",  what about RUSSIAN poet Ivan Bezdomnyiy?  He  is
stupid and after all has bacome a crazy. Isn't that about all russian are
crazy?!
     Is my logic similar to your logic, mr. Borodin?  To my surprise rus-
sian antisemites ("Pamiat'") search "hzidovskie proiski"  by  the SIMILAR
way!
     I don't consider Bulgakov was antisemite.

     SY   E.Fedyunkin



Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: patricia@cco.caltech.edu (Patricia M. Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Russian poetry
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 12:45:02 GMT

> And, I hope, net wisdom would be able to explain to stupid me,
> why people try to write about things they don't understand completely.

Can you name one thing that anyone understands completely that isn't
trivial.

I am a physicist, and I see that all of science is writing about things
no one understands completely.

Einstein didn't understand  the theories he discovered.
And the brightest people in the field are still working on trying
to understand it.

And you are asserting that literaure can be more completely
understood than science?

I have never heard any professional in the field of literature
assert that any work of literature could be completely understood.

-patricia
From: shimkevi@buchmf.bu.edu (Sergey Shimkevich)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Who Is Afraid Of Patricia Schwarz?
Date: 10 Sep 92 21:42:18 GMT
Organization: Boston University Chemistry Department

Come on, gospoda, what was that she said? So what if her interest in Russian
culture is not deep enough for your liking? Haven't you got anything better to
do? So what if she lumped Pasternak and rock bands into one category: WHO
CARES!!! (who cares about Pasternak anyway :-) :-) :-)

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
// Ryan: What is it to you, demon?       //// Sergei Shimkevich             //
// Lune: It is Sir, Demon to you, worm!  //// shimkevi@buchmf.bu.edu        //
// -Phantasy Star III                    //// shimkevich@A1.tch.harvard.edu // 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: viznyuk@physics.ucla.edu (Sergei Viznyuk)
Subject: Re: Bulgakov
Organization: UCLA Department of Physics
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 92 21:34:13 GMT

In article <2507@cronos.metaphor.com> covdy@shemesh.metaphor.com (Ivan Covdy) writes:
>
>Again this shit about "enigma of the Russian soul" and that 
>the foreigners will never-never-never-never-never understand 
>the Russian culture because of its superiority.
>
>Talking about Bulgakov, I think that he should be expelled (post factum) 
>from any honorable organization he belonged to, because it is a
>well-known fact that he was antisemitic :-)

  ..and practiced cannibalism...:-------)
>
>-- 
>  Ivan Covdy, covdy@shemesh.metaphor.com, METAPHOR Inc.,  CA,  USA
> *** People are looking for a Mind somewhere in the Universe,      ***
> *** because on the Earth they've been finding only the Stupidity. ***

Serega
From: patricia@cco.caltech.edu (Patricia M. Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Shafarevich
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 05:59:33 GMT


>>Same with feminism, Russian women in about five years will begin to
>>seriously work with this concept, people will argue very bitterly
>>but the tone of arguments will change, just as they did here, real
>>progress will be made, and then there will also be some idiot-level
>>fluctuations too.

>Actually, Russia is a head above America with the attitude towards
>women. Most things American feminists fight for Russian women
>got in 1920-ies: the could (and even forced to) work, they
>are supposed to be equal on household tasks. In Russia, women
>understand ideas of feminism a lot better than in America,
>thanks to Communists who spread them.

>Misha


Even my best Russian girlfriend has attitudes about women that
could not be described as "feminist." Most of the problem is not her
idea about her right to a career, she assumes it. But I think the
attitudes about violence against women in Russia are decades behind
what we have learned to think in America. Mostly I blame this on the
lack of will of the Communists to admit that crime existed and their 
insistence that Marxism was the only Social Science worth studying.

In America, even formerly sexist organizations like the FBI and police
associations are coming to understand that feminist theories on the
origins of crimes like rape and spouse battering are correct, and now
these types of crime are beginning to be treated like serious national
problems rather then millions of isolated incidents that one should be
ashamed to mention in public.

This part of "feminism" (whatever that means, there are three theories
of feminism for every two people) is what I meant to discuss. I have yet
to have a discussion with any of my Russian friends (or European, for
that matter) without hearing very outdated and proven false stereotypes
about rape and spouse abuse, especially the ideas that the victims are
to blame for the crimes against them.

The rest, the cultural part, is up to Russian women and I would never
presume to say that Russian women should "follow" Americans. And like
you say, some things are a lot better in Russia than America.

-patricia@cco.caltech
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: GLL@fnal.fnal.gov (Gregory Landsberg)
Subject: Re: y6eu B ce6e XACAHA!
Organization: SUNY at Stony Brook
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 18:27:36 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.20

In <1992Sep10.165810.27117@leland.Stanford.EDU> schindle@leland.Stanford.EDU writes:

> Would you all please take this debate over who holds the keys to Russian
> literature/culture and step outside with it? Please? It seems that all the
> name-calling, flame-throwing, name-dropping, connection-flaunting, and
> sharing of stories of abuse and woe *could* be taken to alt.flame
> (or to email ! :.

So you  are going  to teach us  where to  post the  articles  about Russian
culture? Another ``loud irritative American'' teacher? Thank you, anyway!

Cheers,

Greg
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: wgi@aplcomm.jhuapl.edu (Bill Innanen)
Subject: Adoption advice/info needed
Organization: Johns Hopkins University
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 23:53:32 GMT

I'm posting this for friends (Ron and Margie Char) who don't have Intenet
access.  If you have any information or advice for them please e-mail it to
me at <wgi@aplcomm.jhuapl.edu> and I will forward it to them.

>        We are planning to leave for Russia in less than two 
>weeks to adopt a little boy from Novgrod.  I understand that 
>some people have had problems during their attempts.  We would 
>appreciate any information about the obstacles we may encounter 
>and suggestions about resolving them.
>
>                                         Thanks,
>                                         Ron

Thanks in advance,
Bill
--
Bill Innanen             (Internet) wgi@aplcomm.jhuapl.edu
#include <stdDisclaimers.h>   /* Unless otherwise noted */

Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From:  fed@sovet.cntc.dubna.su (E.D.Fedyunkin)
Subject: Re: Re: "democratic" Estonia
Keywords: mutlu jarmo ryyti
Reply-To: fed@sovet.cntc.dubna.su
Organization: Dubna Counsil
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 03:38:53 +0300 

 Mutlu Jarmo Ryyti ....



Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: aps@sonia.math.ucla.edu (Alexei Stolboushkin)
Subject: Re: Shafarevich
Organization: UCLA Mathematics Department
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 92 04:02:18 GMT

In article <1992Sep6.170631.11249@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> muh@physics.Berkeley.EDU (Yury M. Mukharsky) writes:

>Well, there is at least one simple reason why this happened at same moment:
>it start being possible to publish anti-semitic literature and to
>elect dissident to Academy at the same moment. I think this is the main 
>reason.

Do you really mean that before the perestrojka it was not possible to
publish all this stuff? It seems to me that Belov's ``Vse vperedi'' was
published in millions of copies long before the perestrojka. Also,
let me remind you all these ``Litso sionizma'' etc. This is not to
mention all the ``samizdat'' published in SOAN (Novosibirsk akademgorodok)
and spread all over the country in these years with the obvios support of
the ``KPGB''.


>Yury

--Alexei
From: wolfi@opal.cs.tu-berlin.de (Wolfgang Schwanke)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Koenigsberg/Kaliningrad
Date: 7 Sep 92 17:28:36 GMT
Distribution: soc
Organization: Techn. University of Berlin, Germany

muh@physics.Berkeley.EDU (Yury M. Mukharsky) writes:

(I havent followed this thread, it's just this line that struck me:)

>Was not Hitler free elected?

I wouldn't call an election 'free', where fractions of the parliament were
being imprisoned and/or under threat of violence.


>I am not saying that Estonian Goverement
>is fascist, I just saying that free election does not imply
>anything.

It doesn't make a wonderful world, but it makes sure you can get rid of that
government.

>Yury

Greetings,

Wolfgang

--
* Wolfgang Schwanke * Technische Universitaet Berlin * Germany * wolfi on irc *
* email: wolfi@cs.tu-berlin.de       *      wolfaefg@w250zrz.zrz.tu-berlin.de *

   Everybody needs a little love sometime; stop hacking and fall in love!
From: dleschin@FEDS66.PRIME.COM (Dmitri Leschiner)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Bulgakov
Date: 10 Sep 92 13:35:58 GMT
Reply-To: "soc.culture.soviet via ListServ" <SCS-L@indycms.iupui.edu>

>Date:         Wed, 9 Sep 1992 17:56:55 GMT
>From: Galina Kofman <galina@WATSON.IBM.COM_>

>> >I would not want my dollars to support the course that I repel.

>> At least, you can get it in the library :-)

>"Free" libraries are not free.  Most funding comes out of property taxes.

Yeah, so you can't afford to spend your property taxes borrowing book
for free :-)

>there is so much to read without being mosachistic.

Ooh, sure, but why not to?!

>> Oh, yes - what about Dostoevskiy?

>What about Dostoevskiy?

ANTISEMIT BYL TVOJ DOSTOEVSKIJ, VOT CHTO.

>Galya.

Dimulya.
From: didinsky@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (didinsky garry)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Tuk-tuk....
Summary: zdravstvuite
Keywords: tuk
Date: 9 Sep 92 23:40:14 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

Dorogie comredyi i comredki!

   I am new to this soc.culture.soviet.  I would like to inform everyone
   that I exist.  Beside existing, I also do other things like being 
   curious.  At this point I am curious about few things:

      1.  Who was zateinik etogo dela?  Who are most of the chitateli?
	  Basically, can any one give a small istoriyu soc.culture.soviet?

      2.  There was some discussion about russkoi kulture v amerike.  Well,
	  does it exist?  Are there any b(yivshie)Sovetskie who feel strongly
	  about importance of having russian as their primary/secondary
	  culture?  Would you guys like to start/continue jewish joke files?
	  If you want you can send them to me, and I will post them.
      
      3.  Does any one know anyone in Novosibirsk who has a e-mail address?

    For now these are all questions I have, but ya chelovek lyuboznatel'nyi,
    tak chto jdite, ya vernus'. (Eto ne ugroza)

    ps.  Reading Ms. Schwart's messages reminded me of a joke:

    Armyanskomu radio pishet storoj Vasilii Ivanovich Zaitsev iz derevni
    imeni Dvadtsatogo s'ezda Partii.  On prosit chto byi myi syigrali dlya
    nego ego lyubimoe klasicheskoe proizvedenie, pervyi kontsert....(just
    think of something very refined).

    Armyanskoe radio otvechaet:  Vas'ka, ne pizdi.

    pss.  Btw, name is Didinsky -----Garik Didinsky (J. Bond music in the 
    background).