HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: goldstein@carafe.enet.dec.com (Fred R. Goldstein)
Subject: Re: NT1
Organization: Digital Equipment Corp., Littleton MA USA
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 03:54:50 GMT


In article <C0JsK4.58s@norstan.com>, sfrazier@norstan.com (Steven E Frazier) writes...
>I thought I understood the ISDN piece, but I don't.  Ok if you have
>a bridge from one of the vendors, then that bridge's RJ45 plugs into
>a NT1?  I thought the RJ45 went directly to a telco RJ45.  Can someone
>elborate on the single pair or is it two paris of wires coming in from
>the Telco.  They wire it to a RJ45?  The customer then buys a NT1
>(which is what?  what does it do) and plugs this NT1 into the telco
>RJ45 and then you can plug in a bridge to the NT1?

Well in my case (I'm typing this over ISDN), Telco brought in a
jack with an RJ-11 on it.  I then run an ordinary RJ11 cable to
the NT1; in this case, it's an AT&T NT1U-200 with the big power
supply, and the RJ11 is actually on the power supply.  Then the
TE (at the moment, a Gandalf 5510 bridge) uses an 8-pin RJ45 to the 
NT1.  Getting the cables straight for all of the TAs and NTs (the
AT&T "NT1U" AMI and 2B1Qs are wired differently) is not trivial.
---
Fred R. Goldstein   goldstein@carafe.tay2.dec.com 
k1io             or goldstein@delni.enet.dec.com   voice:+1 508 952 3274
Standard Disclaimer:  Opinions are mine alone; sharing requires permission.
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.isdn
From: laubach@hpl.hp.com (Mark Laubach)
Subject: Re: IDSN wanna-be questions
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 01:28:26 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories Palo Alto,CA
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

Jim Rees (rees@pisa.citi.umich.edu) wrote:
: In article <1993Jan8.192642.5383@gandalf.ca>, cstorry@gandalf.ca (Chuck Storry) writes:
: 
:   Just a quick question from a vendor who makes ISDN TAs but not PC cards.
:   Why do you want the card in your pc ?
: 
: Does anyone make a reasonably priced router (not bridge) that has an
: ethernet port and an isdn port?  I don't think you can get one for less than
: about $2000.  Correct me if I'm wrong.
: 
: I agree that if cost is no object, then you really don't want a pc card.

One could argue that a box with two ports is more like a bridge anyway.....

There are two solutions I know of to link a PC at home with work over ISDN:

1) Buy a pair of Combinet ISDN Ethernet bridges (~2K ea) and put small 
   ethernet at home bridged to an ethernet segment at work.  This works 
   *real well*.  I've got one running myself.  It gives me 56Kb*2 access
   to the internet at work from my system(s) at home.  (56Kb due to going
   between two COs.)  There are other companies in the Bay Area using
   this mechanism.  I suspect that in the next six months, between us and
   another company over on the next hill, we'll have about 50 pairs of these
   boxes running between work and home.

2) HP, as one example, makes an AT-bus ISDN card for the PC.  It provides
   2B access to ISDN and requires a similar setup at the work end: i.e.,
   ISDN card in a PC with SCO Unix providing a routing function between
   the ISDN card and an ethernet segment.

Your choice.

Mark Laubach
HP Labs


Newsgroups: comp.dcom.isdn
From: cktoh@iti.gov.sg (Toh Chai Keong (CCL))
Subject: Developing Video Applications Over B-ISDN(ATM)
Organization: National Computer Board, Singapore
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 10:22:50 GMT

Hello Everyone,

I am currently embarking a B-ISDN project based on Video 
Multicast using ATM. 

I hope anybody that have done some research or develop 
video applications based on ATM could provide me 
information on their findings, work, etc..

Also besides the CCITT Integrated Video Services Baseline
Document, are there others pending/existing standards to
come by?

Glad to hear advices from members of this newsgroups.

Thanks,
Chai-Keong
-------------------------------------------------------
C K Toh, Associate Member of Technical Staff,
Communications Technology Group,
Information Technology Institute of Singapore,
E-Mail : cktoh@iti.gov.sg
Fax    : 65-7795966
--------------------------------------------------------



-- 
---
Sanny Ong Yee-Ping	
Information Technology Institute  Internet: ong@iti.gov.sg  
National Computer Board		  Bitnet  : yeeping@ITIVAX
From: dem@fnal.gov (David E. Martin)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.isdn
Subject: List of ISDN Ethernet Half-Bridge Vendors
Date: 5 Jan 93 19:28:35 GMT
Reply-To: dem@fnal.gov
Organization: Fermi National Acclerator Laboratory, Batavia, IL, USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: nhmpw2.fnal.gov


Several people have asked, so here is my list of US companies selling Ethernet
half-bridges that utilize ISDN.

Combinet
Sunnyvale, CA
(408) 522-9020
FAX: (408) 732-5479

Network Express
Ann Arbor, MI
(313) 761-5005
FAX: (313) 995-1114

Gandalf Premier
Schaumburg, IL
(708) 517-3600
FAX: (708) 517-3627

DigiBoard
Eden Prarie, MN
(612) 943-9020
FAX: (612) 943-5398

Teleos Communications
Morristown, NJ
(908) 389-5700
FAX: (908) 544-9890

Develcon Electronics
Atlanta, Ga
(800) 667-9333
FAX: (306) 931-1370

David E. Martin
National HEPnet Management                      ||    Phone: +1 708 840-8275
Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory           ||    FAX: +1 708 840-8463
P.O. Box 500, MS 368; Batavia, IL 60510  USA   /  \   E-Mail: dem@hep.net
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.isdn
From: jhderby@vnet.ibm.com (Jeff H. Derby)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 93 15:54:25 EST
Subject: V.42bis over V.120? (was Re: Can V.32bis or V.42bis be 'faked' by
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.isdn
Organization: IBM Technology Products, RTP, NC USA
Disclaimer: The opinions below are my own (of course)

In <725842056.AA00743@cswamp.apana.org.au> Arthur Marsh writes:
>The error correcting procedure of V.120 is an allowed error correction
>procedure for V.42bis, but until V.42bis is revised, there is no defined method
>of negotiating V.42bis parameters in V.120. (The other allowed error correction
>protocol for V.42bis, LAPM has an XID defined for exchanging V.42bis
>parameters).
>
>So, V.42bis for V.120 is allowed and it's at the "we're looking into it"
>stage.
>

The link layer protocol in V.120 is LAPD (LLC part of Q.921) or LAPE
(LLC part of Q.922), I forget which.  But both include XID that uses the
same general format (and same entry in the Format Identifier subfield)
as the XID in LAPM (LLC part of V.42).  The V.42 standard defines the
use of so-called Private Parameters in the XID format for negotiating
the use of V.42bis.  Q.921 and Q.922 (and so V.120) do not include these
Private Parameter encodings in their XID frames.  However, the encoding
of these parameters seems precise and unambiguous for any XID that
follows the general format associated with the Format Identifier
'10000010' associated with ISO 8885 (where the general format used by
all these protocols is defined).  So it would appear at least in
principle that a V.120 TA could send an XID that includes the Private
Parameters for V.42bis and another similar V.120 TA could receive them
and understand them.  Of course, whether or not this is the approach
being considered in standards committees (or whether it's being
considered at all in standards committees) is anyone's guess.  Perhaps
someone of those who "are looking into it" has some idea.

Btw, the identical approach works for V.42bis above LAPD (Q.921) or
LAPE (Q.922) natively on a B-channel.

Jeff Derby
From: rees@dabo.citi.umich.edu (Jim Rees)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.isdn
Subject: Re: Newbie Q
Date: 7 Jan 1993 01:50:56 GMT
Organization: University of Michigan CITI
Distribution: world
Reply-To: Jim.Rees@umich.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: dabo.citi.umich.edu

In article <1605@b1.babss.UUCP>, wadswort@babss.UUCP (John H. Wadsworth) writes:

  Does anyone have a beginners guide
  they could post?

I'd like to recommend Fred Goldstein's book, "ISDN In Perspective."  It
covers the essentials of both the technical and the political issues.  He
hangs out here so if you don't understand something you can ask him.

Something I'd like to see is a more practical, equipment oriented guide,
that would cover what's available today.  That sort of info changes fast
enough that it's hard to keep up with.
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.isdn
From: sfrazier@norstan.com (Superuser)
Subject: ISDN - bridge - phone/TA
Organization: Norstan Communications - Columbus, Ohio
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 13:53:53 GMT

If you had a NT-1 installed on your newly installed 2B+D line in your
home and you decided that you wanted/needed a bridge to extend your
TCP/IP connection from your office, you installed one of the available
bridges.

Now the next question is, you need dialtone.  I understand you can by
a TA that has a RJ11C on the back and you can install a 2500 type
single line phone on the back of it.  The question is, where do you
install the line cord from that TA?  You can have a TA installed at the
same time you can have a TCP/IP bridge, can't you?




-- 
Norstan Communications, Inc.        | Steven E. Frazier
8101 N. High Street Suite 100       |---------------------------------------
Columbus, OH   43235                | Local : sfrazier
Voice 614-785-7335 Fax 614-785-7337 | Remote: sfrazier@norstan.com
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.isdn
From: newcomb@pops.navo.navy.mil (Don Newcomb)
Subject: ISDN & satellite telemetry
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-7831]: pops.navo.navy.mil
Reply-To: newcomb@pops.navo.navy.mil (Don Newcomb)
Organization: Naval Oceanographic Office
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 20:46:11 GMT

A common problem in Oceanography and other earth sciences is getting
the data back from remote instrument packages. Telemetered data often
flow through a variety strange routes on their way to the laboratory.
I was intrigued to learn that Motorola's proposed Iridium satellite
cellular telephone system includes ISDN capability in each subscriber
unit.

I was wondering if anyone knows of other direct-to-subscriber satellite
communications systems that provide ISDN capability.
--
Donald R. Newcomb                * Views expressed are strictly those of the *
Naval Oceanographic Office       * author. Mention of commercial products or *
Stennis Space Center, MS 39522   * organizations constitutes no endorsement. *
newcomb@navo.navy.mil            * Phone (601) 688-5998
From: rees@pisa.citi.umich.edu (Jim Rees)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.isdn
Subject: Re: V.42bis for a B Channel, was Re: V.42bis over V.120? (was Re: Can etc
Date: 6 Jan 1993 01:25:04 GMT
Organization: University of Michigan CITI
Distribution: world
Reply-To: Jim.Rees@umich.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: pisa.citi.umich.edu

In article <scott.726276501@labtam>, scott@labtam.labtam.oz.au (Scott Colwell) writes:

  I believe that V.42bis ought to be extended to allow some more compression
  algorithms to increase compression factors, rather than to decrease the
  processing requirements.

As I understand it, v.42bis already includes the ability for the two ends to
negotiate the size of the string table, and therefore the storage
requirements of the compression engine.  I would guess that the processing
power required would also vary with string table size.  I believe most
existing modems use an 11 bit table.

  As far as compression over ISDN is concerned, it seems to me that the correct
  place for compression is higher up the protocol stack.

Agreed.  Since compression requires an error-free channel, it really can
only go at transport layer or higher, if you want to move it above data
link.  We thought about doing a separate LZW compression on each tcp
connection, along with vj compression of the tcp/ip headers, but never
implemented anything.  One nice thing about v.42bis is that it does a good
job of getting out of the way when upper layers are doing compression.
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.isdn
From: bob1@cos.com (Bob Blackshaw)
Subject: Re: Newbie Q
Organization: Corporation for Open Systems
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 14:25:21 GMT

In <1605@b1.babss.UUCP> wadswort@babss.UUCP (John H. Wadsworth) writes:

>In article <bob1.726244625@cos> bob1@cos.com (Bob Blackshaw) writes:
>>In <24677@galaxy.ucr.edu> rogue@ucrengr.ucr.edu (ed zeamba) writes:
>>>What exactly is ISDN?
>>
>>To put ISDN in very simple terms, it does two basic things. Firstly,
>>it extends digital transmission right out to the user over the local
>>loop - in one interface (Basic Rate I/F or BRI), the user gets two
>>64 kbit/s lines. In the second interface (Primary Rate I/F or PRI),
>>the user gets 23 64 kbit/s lines or 30 64 kbit/s lines - depends
>>on the carrier system used.
>>

>Thanks. Now on with more simple but needed questions....
>What kind of equipment is needed at my place to use ISDN?
>Once I have this equipment, is there any use for it besides
>a point-to-point connection say from a local office to headquarters.

OK. Well, since the FCC says CPE is not to be bundled, your local
exchange will preobably terminate the BRI pair on some protector/
demarcation device. Now you will need what ISDN calls a Network
Termination 1, or NT1 for short. Basically, this NT1 converts
the line protocol (a 2 wire active equalizer echo cancelling
full-duplex 4-signal protocol) into a 4-wire full-duplex prorocol
on the premises side. The best definition in 25 words or less,
is that it is a Data Sense Multiple Access with Collision
Resolution protocol. From this point, you can daisy-chain up
to eight devices on premises. Now, if you want to hook on an
existing (non-ISDN) device you will need either a Terminal
Adaptor (TA) or an ISDN terminal of some sort.

The TA is simply a device that speaks ISDN on one side, and
whatever 'language' you want on the other, e.g., EIA-232-D,
V.24, X.25, etc. Some folks, such as Hayes, Teleos, etc. have
ISDN cards that plug into a PC and also support analog tele-
phones. Many other manufacturers offer stand-alone TAs.

>I've been lurking here for a while in the hopes of getting more
>familiar with isdn and wan connections in general but many of the
>posts seem to be over my head. Does anyone have a beginners guide
>they could post? Could you write a quick intro to ISDN? I've seen
>lots of press explaining the who and what of it but not the why and
>how.

I did a guide about four years ago, so it is now out of date, and
is copyright to COS in any case. There are quite a number of books
available. I haven't read Bill Stallings book, but from my aquaintance
with him, I would imagine it is quite readable for even non-techie
folks.

>Thanks!

De nada.

>John H. Wadsworth            BABSS           wadswort%babss.UUCP@cs.yale.edu
>(800) 677-8549 voice    (203)481-0276 fax      {uunet,yale}!babss!wadswort

Bob.
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.isdn
From: picone@csc000.csc.ti.com (Joe Picone)
Subject: end-to-end digital connections on ISDN
Originator: picone@csc000
Organization: Tsukuba Research and Development Center
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 17:08:34 GMT

We currently have a T1 line installed in our lab that has been
guaranteed by the long distance carrier (MCI) to provide fully digital
connections once the signal has been converted from analog to digital
at the nearest (digital) local office.  This means that users who call
our phone numbers from analog phones will go through at most one
analog to digital conversion (no reconversions, D/A followed by A/D,
along the way).

What are the chances that an ISDN phone will demonstrate the same
characteristic (no reconversions)?

If there is a chance of a reconversion, can some carriers provide
special feeds that are guaranteed to be digital all the way? If so,
who?

We use this T1 to record speech databases for speech research, so it
is important that there be as few reconversions as possible. Some T1s,
I am told, actually get converted to analog when they have to pass
through a non-digital office (apparently, there are still some of
these out there???). Some carriers claim to deliver end-to-end
digital. Since ISDN is new, and point to point connectivity is
probably not yet mature, people are speculating that reconversions can
occur. I find this hard to believe.

Thanks.

Newsgroups: comp.dcom.isdn
From: gdha@se.alcbel.be (Gratien D'haese)
Newsgroups: alcbel.list.dp,comp.dcom.isdn,comp.protocols.ppp
Subject: dp2.2 on Interactive V3.2 & ISDN
Date: 7 Jan 93 09:29:05 GMT
Organization: Alcatel Bell, Antwerpen, Belgium



Dear ppp-ers,

I am following the comp.dcom.isdn and comp.protocols.ppp newsgroups for a
while now. It seems to me that some people do actually use ISDN instead of
a common phone line + modems.

Could someone tell me how a  working configuration with ISDN looks like
(ISDN+TA+modem or ISDN-card plugged in a PC?). Personally, I would like to
use dp2.2, for its automatic dialup facilities and breakdown in
idle times.

In the first case (ISDN+TA+modem), it is probably rather easy to
configure dp2.2 to work with ISDN (just has to treat it as a modem?).

In the second case (ISDN card in PC), it seems to
me that there are parts missing in the dp daemon (to make a call via 
the ISDN card).

Can anyone comment on this? Is it feasible to expand the amount of
keywords in the configuration file for dp (and build the knowledge to make
calls through the ISDN card into the dp daemon)?

Is their anybody using dp2.2 on an PC with Interactive UNIX V3.2?
Thanks/Gratien
--
  _______ 		Gratien D'haese    Switching Systems Division  se121
  \     /Alcatel			  F. Wellesplein 1, B-2018 Antwerpen
   \   /  Bell		e-mail: gdha@se.alcbel.be    Phone: (32) 3 240 94 51
    \/ Telephone		gdha@alcbel.be 	     Fax:   (32) 3 240 99 50
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.isdn
From: dcarr@gandalf.ca (Dave Carr)
Subject: Re: PPP on multiple B channels
Organization: Gandalf Data Ltd.
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 21:23:29 GMT

In <5306@aria.Ascend.COM> marc@aria.Ascend.COM (Marco S Hyman) writes:

>In article <2935351554.0.p00136@psilink.com> p00136@psilink.com (Bob Larribeau) writes:
> > >FROM:   David E. Martin <dem@fnal.gov>
> > >
> > >You probably don't want PPP to know about the number of channels.  Why
> > >not use something like BONDING (bandwidth-on-demand internetworking
>							^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>It's 'interoperability'

> > >group).  Then present the aggregate bandwidth to PPP?
> > 
> > What I am asking about is a standardized approach that will assure 
> > interoperability.  Using PPP over BONDING sounds like a fine approach.  
> > Is it being adopted as the standard approach by the IETF?

>Expensive solution.  Forgetting PPP for a second, all you want to do is
>send a packet on B1 then send a packet on B2.  I've been told that the
>Combinet box does just this.

But this will add delay.  Better yet, fragment the packet and sent one 
peice over each link.

Does Combinet run an error-corrected link?  Do they worry about packet
ordering?  

PPP has an LAPB mode, designed to handle the multi-link.  I don't think
it's standardized yet however.

Newsgroups: comp.dcom.isdn
From: teladmin@zeus.calpoly.edu (Barbara Ciesielski)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.isdn
Subject: Serial Port TA's vs PC cards
Date: 10 Jan 93 07:41:28 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo

A few important points should be noted when considering using a PC card
vs. a TA serial port.  When ISDN CPE started to hit the market, I
originally thought that serial ports would provide the best solutions.
However, since then serveral things have become apparent that have
caused me to seriously begin consider pc card purchases for my
applications

1) although the B channel provides the ability to use a 64kb data call,
I am yet to find a single TA that provides this bandwidth through the
serial port.  I tested AT&T 75** sets, Fujitsu, Telrad, and currently
a Acotel (Lodestar) prototype.  All of these sets only allowed the
serial port to be set to 19200, with the exception of the Telrad, which,
when using a proprietery CSD mode allowed for 38.4  AT&T tells me that 
FR3 supposedly provides for a full blown 64kb async data call, however,
I have yet to actually get 2 of these TA's to test.

2) Even if they did provide full 64kb serial connections, most pc's out
there today can't really handle above 19.2 unless you have a 16550 UART
port.  I am currently purchasing one that to test for just that purpose.

So, why get a pc card, because properly built it will be able to handle
the higher data transfer rate to the pc, and it could even be built to
make use of both B's simultaneously or on demand giving you 128.  But
this too has its own problems, as stated earlier the 'plug and go' old
modem compatibility is gone, and more importantly, every PC card I
looked into is only compatible with its vendors equipment family.

*sigh*, so Heres what I am looking for, a TA that supports a 64kb serial
port, compatible with DMI B channel data calls, and preferably with
all the nice TA control features like the 7506 has.  Also, a pc serial
card that can handle 64kb.

_Standard Disclaimer_
-Dave Grant, Cal Poly Telephone Administration
-teladmin@eos.calpoly.edu, (805)756-7470
From: rees@pisa.citi.umich.edu (Jim Rees)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.isdn
Subject: Re: IDSN wanna-be questions
Date: 8 Jan 1993 22:12:17 GMT
Organization: University of Michigan CITI
Distribution: world
Reply-To: Jim.Rees@umich.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: pisa.citi.umich.edu

In article <1993Jan8.192642.5383@gandalf.ca>, cstorry@gandalf.ca (Chuck Storry) writes:

  Just a quick question from a vendor who makes ISDN TAs but not PC cards.
  Why do you want the card in your pc ?

Does anyone make a reasonably priced router (not bridge) that has an
ethernet port and an isdn port?  I don't think you can get one for less than
about $2000.  Correct me if I'm wrong.

I agree that if cost is no object, then you really don't want a pc card.
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.isdn
From: picone@trdc.ti.com
Subject: end-to-end digital connections on ISDN
Originator: picone@trdc000
Organization: Tsukuba Research and Development Center
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 23:39:55 GMT

We currently have a T1 line installed in our lab that has been
guaranteed by the long distance carrier (MCI) to provide fully digital
connections once the signal has been converted from analog to digital
at the nearest (digital) local office.  This means that users who call
our phone numbers from analog phones will go through at most one
analog to digital conversion (no reconversions, D/A followed by A/D,
along the way).

What are the chances that an ISDN phone will demonstrate the same
characteristic (no reconversions)?

If there is a chance of a reconversion, can some carriers provide
special feeds that are guaranteed to be digital all the way? If so,
who?

We use this T1 to record speech databases for speech research, so it
is important that there be as few reconversions as possible. Some T1s,
I am told, actually get converted to analog when they have to pass
through a non-digital office (apparently, there are still some of
these out there???). Some carriers claim to deliver end-to-end
digital. Since ISDN is new, and point to point connectivity is
probably not yet mature, people are speculating that reconversions can
occur. I find this hard to believe.

Thanks.

Newsgroups: comp.dcom.isdn
From: vances@xenitec.on.ca (Vance Shipley)
Subject: Re: ISDN & the PBX
Organization: SwitchView Inc., Waterloo, Ontario
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 13:47:00 GMT

In article <C0LAG6.AKH@norstan.com> sfrazier@norstan.com (Superuser) writes:
>
>Let's say the PBX could offer the same thing that a centrex/business line
>could from the TELCOO.  How would you get this person's extension and
>computer to his/her house?  Obviously if the person was located on the
>same premise you would run a copper pair to that person's house, but
>let's say that person was located about 1/2 mile away.  what would
>be needed and what would you order from the TELCO to make this happen?
>

I've been wondering for a while whether anyone has done this yet.  I would
assume that if I had U interface line cards for my PBX I could do a traditional
OPX (Off Premise Extension).  If the length of the OPX circuit is less than
18K feet and has no load coils it should work.  Anyone?

-- 
Vance Shipley 
vances@xenitec.on.ca         vances@switchview.com         vances@ltg.uucp
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.isdn