HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: saeed@watson.ibm.com (Saeed Jaffer)
Subject: Ignorance regarding sexuality, etc.
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1992 18:52:04 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

This discussion of how IIs seem more ignorant about sex reminds me
of many conversations I have with my II women friends.  As an
amrikan, many of my II women friends seem to think that I have some
expert knowledge or experience with sex (of course, I don't! ;-) ) 
Many of them have boyfriends and have a lot of questions.

Although most aren't completely ignorant about sex, they do seem
somewhat ... naive.  Most recently, I got into a long discussion 
with one who asked, "What is masturbation?  Is it normal?"  I
couldn't help laugh at times, but I did try to convince her that it
was and perfectly okay if her boyfriend did so.  She wasn't very
happy with that.  It was difficult to convince her that it wasn't a
"bad" thing.

I know many people brought up in the States might even ask such a
question, but other things I've heard from IIs indicate that
they're simply less exposed to issues of sexuality.  For instance,
I've also been asked about various positions, supposed reasons for
frigidity, etc.  Frank sexual discussions with my II friends don't
often take place, but when they do, I find that I'm often in the
position of "educator".

----------------------------------------------------------------------
--saeed jaffer        			So after a lot of thought
saeed@watson.ibm.com  			I'd like to reconsider
saeed@athena.mit.edu  			Please
					If it's not too late
					Make it a cheeseburger
							--L. Lovett
----------------------------------------------------------------------					
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia)
Subject: A forgotten joke (Re: acceptance in this country
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 01:42:09 GMT

In article <BHATTACH.92Nov6100609@molly.jpl.nasa.gov>, bhattach@molly.jpl.nasa.gov (Bidushi Bhattacharya) writes:
> for the next few years.  I know that if I went back to India,
> even though I speak Bengali fluently, I would be treated as 
> a "foreigner" because of my accent, my feminist views, my general 
> world view, and the way I walk in a sari (a joke--this is something 
> my Mom teases me about--she thinks I stand too straight and take 
> big steps like a guy in a sari!!).  
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

You said it, not me :-)

> Okay, I guess I would get 
> accustomed to the sari soon enough and could get used to being 
> taller than most of the men, but my expectiations of life as a 
                                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> woman with a career are very different from those of some of my 
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

(Forgotten joke: So you are a female. I actually had been inclined
to say that :-)

> female cousins in India.  Even if you males wouldn't have to deal 

> Bidushi
> :-)
> 
Alok
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: moh2@quads.uchicago.edu (Kateri/Mary Anne)
Subject: Re: RACISM
Reply-To: moh2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 00:45:56 GMT

In article <Bx7E90.6EH@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> hsingh@cayley.uwaterloo.ca (Harpreet Singh) writes:
>Hi,
>   This is in response to the article posted by the guy from Arizona (sorry i
>forgot your name).  Racism is part of the white people'e race.  

Bull.  And in itself an extremely racist comment.

>For some 
>reason, they consider themselves superior than other races.  

Every race considers itself superior to the other races.  Humans are
screwed up.

>They don't like
>dark skin people but still like to get a 'tan', wonder why?.  

Fashion, fad.  Not a particularly healthy one at that.  A century ago,
everyone tried to be as pale as possible....ladies carried around
sunshades to protect them from the sun.
And don't even try to claim Indians are blameless.....why all the
concern about finding a 'fair' mate for your child?


>All the minorities should stay
>together and united.

There's a certain sense to joining together to show people that you
are not the only voice calling for something....but band together
'for' something....not 'against' somebody.

>Harpreet Singh

 - Amirthi



-- 
More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads.  One
path leads to despair and utter hopelessness.  The other to total
extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly.
						 - Woody Allen
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: gagrawal@cs.tamu.edu (Gopal Agrawal)
Subject:  Re: arranged marriages
Organization: Computer Science Dept., Texas A&M University
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 02:06:36 GMT

In article <1992Nov5.193328.14324@cbnewsi.cb.att.com> alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (a
lok.vijayvargia) writes:
>>In article <1992Nov3.160550.16577@midway.uchicago.edu>, moh2@quads.uchicago.ed
u (Kateri/Mary Anne) writes:
>>
>I am talking about Indian women in India. They learn about the wedding
>night syndrome from close friends and female relatives who have already
>gone through an arranged marriage. They expect sexual encounter on
>the wedding night. They may be disappointed if there is none. May start
>wondering if the guy is a gay ...

Quite correct. Now a days, there is usually a 5 to 6 months gap between
the engagement and marriage by which time the guy-girl know each other
pretty well (mostly through plenty of phone calls/letters and few dates).
According to my cousin who recently got married, his wife was not only
expecting sex, but it was she who floored him the moment he entered the
bedroom on the first night. Prior to the marriage he did have several
intimate trysts with his fiance. I have heard of several such cases. All
that sharmili-non-agrressive-and-submissive-indian-female image here is only
because of those bullshitty hindi movies. They are far removed from reality.

>> I was asking if Indian guys talk about sex with other Indian
>> guys.  I know American guys do.....
>
>I don't think Indian guys talk about sex either with each other.
>Not in India at least. I haven't seen very many talk about it
>here either. ....
>
>Alok

Huh?! Where did you get the notion that Indian guys do not talk
about sex. I don't think there is any *normal* Indian who doesn't 
talk about sex. You probably never mixed really well with the 
crowd in India.  Perhaps it was a difference in the sex-related 
terminology used here and in India that might have been the cause 
of guys not wanting to talk about sex to you.  Infact, at times 
I used to ask myself "Is that the only thing we Indians can do all
the time -- talk about sex !?" 

regards,
--   
   ______ ______ ______ ______ __  |\/\/\/|
    ____/  __  /  __  /  __  /  /  |  \  /|  LIFE's COMPLEX - IT HAS
   / __   /   /  /   /  /   /  /   | (o)(o)  REAL & IMAGINARY PARTS.
  /   /  /   /   ___/  __  /  /    C      _) 
_____/ _____/ __/   __/ __/ ______/ | \___|  
E-mail - gagrawal@cs.tamu.edu       |   /   All Std. Disclaimers apply.
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: aa@iti.org (Aayush Asthana)
Subject: Re: Linear times in Amrika
Organization: Industrial Technology Institute
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 16:42:17 GMT

tyadav@athena.mit.edu (Tapesh Yadav) writes:

> Anyway, being ALONE is not same as being LONELY.

If you take the LY out of being LONELY you are left a LONE .-)

.. these are creatures that spring from the same source: solitude.

While being alone is primarily a `state of being', followed on its
heels with feelings of loneliness: being lonely is an emotive
state.  Take the emotions out of `being lonely,' and you are quite
literally alone.  Add feeling and you can be quite alone even in a
crowd.  It is interesting to note that this aspect of
feeling/passion runs throughout this thread:  it may be useful to
remember that not everybody has the same intensity of passion that
defines and or distinguishes linear times in Amrika and beyond.
Moreover, there is no guarantee that cultural linearity will not
evolve or that the liveliness of India will not become linear.
[Or that the status quo as experienced will not continue.] 

>T.Y.
>----

[] Regards,   | Industrial    :      _________ ___________ ___________
Aayush Asthana| Technology    :    /___   ___//___    ___//___    ___/
aa@iti.org    | Institute     :   ____/  /___    /  /    ____/  /____ 
(313) 769-4652| Ann Arbor, MI :  /__________/   /__/    /___________/
From: mps1@cec1.wustl.edu (Mihir Pramod Shah)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: Re: Your Duty as an IA/American
Date: 7 Nov 92 20:44:21 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis MO

Puneet,
       It is interesting that you stated you wouldn't vote for Clinton
because you're in the Environmental business.  While Clinton has had
a lackluster environmental record in Arkansas, he and especially
Al Gore have been the greatest advocates for supporting new         
environmental technology and industry.  They believe the environmental
technology potential out there is GOOD for the economy, opposite of
what Bush and even a little of Perot.  Clinton/Gore realize that
Japan and the EC (specifically Germany) will bash our brains in like
any other industry if we don't have some cohesive agenda on Environmental
policy and technology.

Just wanted to point it out.


Peace...Mihir
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: baindur@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Satyen G Baindur)
Subject: Re: Problems faced by Indian immigrants not common to Chinese or Japanese
Organization: HAC - Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 23:15:42 GMT

In article <1992Nov6.201757.13345@wuecl.wustl.edu> mps1@cec1.wustl.edu (Mihir Pramod Shah) writes:
>Continuing the discussion,
>
>
>The reference to Gandhi is an interesting one.  Educated and "cultured" Americans will appreciate
>Gandhi's message and influence on the world.  Notable civil rights leaders such as Martin 
>Luther King, Jr. got their inspiration from Gandhi.  Of course there are ignorant people who
>use the "skinny" image of Gandhi to mock Indians.  I once heard of a comment by someone referring
>to my car as the "Gandhimobile".


First of all, Mihir, congratulations on an excellent set of articles.

I just wanted to add in the context of Gandhi that while his influence on
Martin Luther King is celebrated, the influence of the 19th Century American 
thinkers Ralph Waldo Emerson and Henry David Thoreau on the evolution of 
Gandhi's philosophy is relatively less well known. Thoreau died a few 
years before Gandhi was born, and Emerson while Gandhi was still a boy,
so they were not exactly his contemporaries, but he was powerfully influenced 
by their writings. Personally, I haven't read too much of either ( has 
someone in this group ?) but my sense is that in the main, their brand 
of philosophy, known as romanticism, required one to question the status 
quo in a profound way, and then adopt an esthetically justifiable means 
of changing it. That is, the proposed method should correspond to a higher,
noble ideal. While Gandhi phrased his philosophy in terms which were rooted 
in the Indian ethos e.g.,  *satyagraha* or *ahimsa*, leading one to 
think of it as having derived inspiration mainly from ancient Indian thought,
Western thinkers, and particularly Emerson and Thoreau did indeed influence 
Gandhi strongly. This tends to get glossed over in India, for any number
of reasons, from chauvinism to ignorance, but Indian Americans ought to 
uncover the connection, and elaborate on it. I don't know as much about 
this as I some day will, so if anyone knows more about this, please post !

Satyen



Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: bhattach@molly.jpl.nasa.gov (Bidushi Bhattacharya)
Subject: Pride in our heritage
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA
Distribution: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 23:36:59 GMT

ngupta@nyx.cs.du.edu (ngupta) writes:

> to do that.  As per my personal opinion, most of the young friends 
> who have been brought over here in U.S. have a disapproving notion 
> about India becuase of their parents and not because they have seen 
> anything themselves.  


Are you sure about this, NGupta?  Have you interacted with enough 
IAs who were born and raised here to be able to say this fairly?

Just because we were born and raised outside of India call ourselves 
American does not meant that we have a "disapproving notion" of India.


> Also, India does not need people who are not proud to call 
> themselves one.  Please go to the nearest surgeon and get your 
                                                        ^^^^^^^^
> skin colour changed so that you do not have to go thru the trauma 
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> of being a Indian.  I do not intend to say this to you, purna in 


Get real.

We keep hearing this thing about Indian skin color.  Are you trying
to say that our Indianness can't be hidden and so we should be proud
of it?  Just as obvious are height and mannerisms, but they are not 
mentioned.  I think it's GREAT that I am dark.  I can wear bright
colors, won't get wrinkles as early (better UV protection), and I
can hang out at the beach for days without having to worry about it!!! :-)

Bidushi :-)

e-mail:  bhattach@molly.jpl.nasa.gov




Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: ngupta@nyx.cs.du.edu (ngupta)
Subject: Re:Linear times in Amrika
Reply-To: ngupta
Organization: nasa-jsc
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 15:30:59 GMT

In article 3385@cs.cornell.edu, soam@cs.cornell.edu (Soam Acharya) writes:
>mvij@ocf.berkeley.edu (Pendragon) writes:
>  What claim does India have over me other than giving me my religion, my language,
> my lineage and generous portions of my belief system?  Don't I owe Uncle Sam
>something for my education?  My job?  What about my obligations to the USA
>for allowing me to live here? 

>PS - When was the last time the New York Times had anything positive to say
>about India?
>
 

From what you say in your article, it seems your motherland has given you much more 
than what this foreign land has offered.  In your case, it is difficult to say but
generalising the issue, we owe much more to our India than Uncle Sam.  On talking to
people about going back, the majority responds that they are afraid because of the
existing problems in their motherland.  Does America not have any problems?  How many people go to college over here, how many marriages extend beyond 2-4 years, the percentage of people paying child support, the number of people suffering from health probelms, the number of rapes, the number of adolescent mothers, the factor of insecurity at job - all these factors do count towards problems.  Every place has problems and every government is corrupt.  An American will always ask you the first question - Ar


e you Indian?  And if you say that you are, but you do not want to be, then forget about asking for any respect from even your American friend.  In my personal opinion, do not falsify your identity just because NYTimes said had something negative to say about India.  The fact is that we are Indians and we will remain Indians, nomatter where we go.  
   

Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: tyadav@athena.mit.edu (Tapesh Yadav)
Subject: Re: Your Duty as an IA/American
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 16:34:13 GMT

=============================
> tyadav@athena.mit.edu (Tapesh Yadav) writes:
>>
>> Personally, I am proud of every human who ever stood by his or her own 
>> thought/conviction, regardless of where he or she was born/bred. The
>> chinese who stood before the tank, the Andropovs who defied communists,
>> the Keplers who chose exile, the Socrates who chose to drink the poison,
>> the Joan of Arcs who prefered the stake, the Luther Kings who stood for
>> the dreams....

 moh2@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>The Nazis who fought for the glory of their homeland, the book burners
>who try to protect their children, the KKK who follow their religion,
>the Irish/Palestinians/Pakistanis/Israelis/South Africans (white and
>black) fighting for their country, their race, the Crusaders who
>murdered thousands for a religion that said, "Thou shalt not
>kill".....
>
>The scary thing is that all of these people fought for what they
>believed in....and they really thought they were protecting
>themselves, their families, their homes.....sigh...
>

 Yes.....sigh....

 On further thought, there seems to exist a subtle difference between
 "all of these people." Some choose to STAND by what they think
 is right/just; some FIGHT (force it down unto others) what they 
 believe in or fear of. These "fighters" have historically tended to be 
 social groups who find their cause in some irrational/cultural/religious
 code; and their escape in destroying some who think otherwise. 

 The constitutional protection of minority/individual is what makes
 this country so extraordinary. And, I think, the fundamental duty of
 an IA/American is to honor and strengthen this right to disagree.

T.Y.
----
tyadav@athena.mit.edu
From: alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: Re: Arranged Marriages and Wedding Nights...
Date: 11 Nov 92 22:11:15 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Nov10.231626.27646@ctp.com>, pghol@ctp.com (Preeti Anissa Gholap) writes:
> 
> Please get real (or run the risk of joining the Alok club)
>                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 
> Preeti

Preeti,
         What is this Alok club ? If you are not real, you are imaginary or
complex. Since this club does not exist, you are imaginary by thinking of an 
imaginary club. Hence you are a member of Alok's club too :)

Now get real, what did I do that you are so doggedly bent on flaming alok in
every post ? Are you just trying to get my attention ? Are you lonely ?
Actually I am quite sympathetic to your feminist 'troubles' but you seem to
take things to personal domain much too often and that too in a rather
insensitive manner. Also you make pathetic and gross generalizations about 
Indian men, IIs, Indian culture etc. So you turn me off.

Alok
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: samaddar@siemens.com (Sumitro Samaddar)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: Re: Interracial marriage (Was Re: Arranged marriages)
Date: 5 Nov 92 21:57:10 GMT
Reply-To: samaddar@siemens.com


 c150-bt@po.berkeley.edu (Manish Vij) writes:
>
>Yes, you can adapt, you can adjust in a relationship.  That's the way
>it is in India.  However: if you have the opportunity to date / marry
>someone with whom you're very best friends, who shares many interests
>with you, with whom you wouldn't mind talking for the next couple
>of decades, then marriage becomes a FRIENDSHIP rather than a mere
>division of necessary labor.

Good point. Let me put the other angle. Is it really necessary that
your spouse share many interests with you? What are the rest of friends
in this world for? This over-emphasis on a spouse sharing intersts with
you can actually contribute to discord because once interests start
diverging, one starts believing that the marriage is kaput. The primary
reason for marriage, IMHO, is to have a stable and conducive environment
for raising kids. That, plus having the security and comfort of knowing
that you someone to depend upon. For indulging in your interests, a spouse
is not strictly necessary. Good if s/he is interested, but not catastrophic
if s/he doesn't eg; if my wife is not interested in discussing mixed
marriages, I can always waste as much time as I want going thru this
newsgroup :-) If jealousy was not a human emotion, I would say that one could
even have sexual relations outside marriage, but try to have kids only from
1 spouse.

Sumitro
From: agarwal@fifi.informatik.uni-dortmund.de (Sunil Agarwal)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: Re: The Ultimate Arranged Marriage Tale
Date: 9 Nov 1992 15:33:28 GMT
Organization: CS Department, Dortmund University, Germany
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: fifi

The article written by Asjeet and reprinted by Preeti
shows what happens in the most middle class families in India (I must
rather say North India).

>Guy's Mom: Beti, zara chal ke dikhana...
>           (Daughter, just show me your walk...)

I remember very much the same procedure happened with my elder sister
as she got married around 7 years back.
But that's not all what they (Boy's Mom and Dad) ask!
They also ask the Girl to stand bare footed besides the Boy.


I have more to say but first I want to confirm whether I'm
in the right group !


BTW why don't 
             	"alt.culture.us.asian-indian"
be renamed to 
		"alt.culture.indian.overseas" ?



Sunil Agarwal
University of Dortmund
Deptt. of Computer Science
Post Box 500 500
4600 Dortmund 50
Germany
E-Mail: agarwal@siggi.informatik.uni-dortmund.de
Fax   : 0049 / 231 / 755 2386
From: samaddar@siemens.com (Sumitro Samaddar)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: Re: Individualism
Date: 11 Nov 92 15:59:06 GMT
Reply-To: samaddar@siemens.com

tyadav@athena.mit.edu (Tapesh Yadav) writes:

> venu@cirrus.com (Venu Nayar) writes:

>> tyadav@athena.mit.edu (Tapesh Yadav) writes: 

>>>   "I, and I alone, am the only one responsible for my own happiness" 
>>
>>however, sometimes it is also possible that my happiness is the result of
>>someone else's happiness and well-being. 

> Who is this "someone else?"

How does this individualism of yours reconcile with the "submission" to
a "soul-mate" that you mentioned in another post? Maybe this "someone else"
is your "soul-mate". The point that Venu (perhaps) made was that it is
possible to feel happy by just making someone else happy. That someone else
can be more than one people.

Sumitro
From: samaddar@siemens.com (Sumitro Samaddar)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: Re: arranged marriages
Date: 5 Nov 92 21:31:54 GMT
Reply-To: samaddar@siemens.com

moh2@quads.uchicago.edu (Kateri/Mary Anne) writes:

>them thought that it would be months later.  (Now, how they reconcile
>this with the fact that if a woman is not pregnant nine months after
>her wedding all her relatives start worrying, I don't know.  I don't

Most II couples that I know had kids at least 2 years after marriage.
The only one who had it within 9 months is a doctor who wanted to
"get having kids out of the way" before she could proceed with her
residency. Incidentally, she knew her husband from childhood.

>think they really understand the connection between sex and having
>children). 

You sound like americans who ask "do Indians live on trees"? Maybe you
really believe that India's population growth is because of this
ignorance. I must have seen umpteen Indian movies where some young couple
gets intimate once and bingo, the girl gets pregnant by murphy's law. There
are all sorts of funny old-wives tales to boot. When to have sex to have a
girl, when for a boy, etc. There is even an obscure practice of "Niyoga"
that allows a woman to have sex with a male relative of her husband (usually
brother) if her husband is infertile. Way back in the epic Mahabharata,
Dhritarashtra, Pandu, and Vidura, the parents/uncles of the Kauravas and 
Pandavas were born due to this kind of practice.

Sumitro
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian