HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Summer.Klopfenstein@p0.f14.n346.z1.fidonet.org (Summer Klopfenstein)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.science
Subject: ENVIRONMENT
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 09:31:23 PDT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:346/14.0 - Room 5, Bonners Ferry ID

Mr. Dixon and All,
 
   Thank you for answering my letter.  You were my first reply.
 
   I'm glad you think that there is some hope.  Sometimes I see
things like a deer and fawn that make me have hope but most times
things look bad.  I'm actually from the big city,  and I've seen
some real bad things.  The smell of Pasadena, Texas or the smog
of downtown Houston.  Is there really hope?
   There should be some way to stop or at least cut back on
polution and environmental no-no's.  We are a very advanced
nation in technology a person would think that we should be able
to do something.
   I've gotten a reply from Canada and I'm in the United States,
is there any body in a different country who has  a cure or a
problem that you would like to discuss?  Mr. Dixon talked of a
small town that went from beautiful  to a normal town on the
edge of a highway.
   When I first wrote my message about the beavers and the trees
I was thinking of humans and this being our world.  What about
the animals?  Mr. Dixon was talking of a lake that was
polluted.We're not only ruining this world for us but everything
else on this planet.
 
 



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From: rowe@pender.ee.upenn.edu (Mickey Rowe)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.science
Subject: Re: Hyper Thyroid
Date: 19 Dec 92 01:53:33 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <30921.2B3162CD@puddle.fidonet.org>
     Helen.Sternheim@f109.n321.z1.fidonet.org (Helen Sternheim) writes:

>Here are some articles on the thyroid from Software Toolworks encyclopedia on  
>cd rom.

...

>A thyroid function test measures the efficiency of THYROXINE
> and triiodothyronine production by the thyroid gland. 
> These two thyroid hormones, which contain iodine, regulate
> body metabolism.            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I just wanted to throw in the information that physicians make use of
the above high-lighted fact in the treatment of thyroid cancer.

Cancers are often treated with radiation therapy--the use of
destructive radiation for killing cells.  The difficulty in
administering the treatment is that you want to irradiate the
cancerous cells without doing too much damage to healthy tissue.  The
thyroid gland is the only place in your body that significantly
concentrates iodine, so to destroy a cancer of that gland, one needs
only to inject a radioisotope of iodine.  The body concentrates the
iodine in the gland, and thus concentrates the radiation around the
tumor.  This results in the destruction of the thyroid gland (and its
associated tumor) without much damage to the rest of the body.

>Internet: Helen.Sternheim@f109.n321.z1.fidonet.org

Mickey Rowe     (rowe@pender.ee.upenn.edu)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.science
From: danwell@IASTATE.EDU (Daniel A Ashlock)
Subject: Re: Evolution
Reply-To: danwell@IASTATE.EDU (Daniel A Ashlock)
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 18:21:58 GMT

In article <30747.2B30A432@puddle.fidonet.org>,
Aaron.Evans@p0.f14.n346.z1.fidonet.org (Aaron Evans) writes:
> Mr. Elsberry,
>      Don't be so hasty in your decision to disprove my theory! I
> don't think that you totally understand my message. I admit it was
> not as clear as it should have been. To clear up certain mistakes
> that I made, I would like to say (as was brought to my attention
> by Lowell Herr, one of the others on this forum) that I meant the
> earths movement about its own axis, !NOT! around the sun. This rate
> of "retardation" if calculated backwards probably would not support
> the theory of evolution in the fact that the earth would certainly
> be anialated before you reached the five billion year mark. I would
> also like to say I was not directly approaching the subject of
> biological evolution, I was merely saying that for evolution to
> have occured the earth would have had to exist five billion years
> (or more) ago. In addition I would point out that I am only a
> sopomore in high school so don't be to hard on me! O.K.?

   There is no reason to think the rate of redardation of the earth's
spin is constant.  Given this, the earth's spin and the correctness of
the theory of evolution are unrelated.

   In any case, even if God did create the world six thousand, fifty
thousand, eighteen million, or however many years ago we directly
observe evolution NOW.  Thus evolution does happen, beyond any hope of
proof or disproof.  The questions are: how does evolution happen?  Does
God interfere in the process? Did he set up the process? What are the
specific physical mechanisms of evolution?  The theory of evolution
tries to explore the hows and whys of evolution.  To date the theory
has found no direct evidence of divine interference but it can't ever
rule it out.

   Finally, you belief that the earth must be five billion years old
for evolution to take place is incorrect.  We believe the current state of
affairs is the result of a few billion years of evolution, but
I've had evolution take place in the compouter on my desktop.  Don't
confuse a specific example with the general theory.

Dan Ashlock
Danwell@IASTATE.EDU


>  
>  
> "Next Argument..."
>  
>                                    In Crist's Love,
>                                    Aaron Evans
> 
> 
> 
> --  
> uucp: uunet!m2xenix!puddle!346!14.0!Aaron.Evans
> Internet: Aaron.Evans@p0.f14.n346.z1.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: k12.ed.science
From: mds@iastate.edu (Mark D. Smucker)
Subject: Re: Evolution
Organization: Iowa State University of Censorship and Repression
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 18:37:35 GMT

In article <30499.2B2F44F5@puddle.fidonet.org> Aaron.Evans@p0.f14.n346.z1.fidonet.org (Aaron Evans) writes:
>Mr. Herr
>     Thank you for pointing out the discrepencies in my wessage.
>For clarification I would like to say that when I said, "The rate
>of the slowing of the earth", I meant the movement of the earth
>around its axis. I agree that the rotation of the earth has "VERY"
>little effect on the movement about the sun. What I was refering
>to in the other message was not supposed to have anything to do
>with the movement around the sun, it was meant to be exclusivly
>about the earth's revolution! 

One of the biggest lessons to learn in science is to VERY CAREFULLY
read people's arguments and understand them fully.

You did not understand Mr. Herr's response to you.

He refutes very successfully your claim concerning the slow down of
the Earth's rotation as a reason to doubt evolutionary theory.

Mark D. Smucker   ----    mds@iastate.edu
From: Peter.Macinnis@p0.f508.n711.z3.fidonet.org (Peter Macinnis)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.science
Subject: Re: Earth-Moon Tidal Brak
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 92 11:07:00 PDT
Organization: FidoNet node 3:711/508.0 - The Bay, Neutral Bay NSW

;rep:111,4220
The digression you posted on Devonian corals was great stuff: I seem to
recall a figure of a 428-day year from "New Scientist" about ten years
ago, but I never could get closer to it than that.  Maybe I should have
gone dowstairs and asked the palaeontologists we keep in the basement,
but now I don't need to, and in any case, they are fish people who
regard corals only as shelter and substrate for their blasted fishes.

CS>The calculations to which Mr. Evans refers are probably related to those
CS>first penned by creationist Walter Brown.  Brown references a paper which
CS>mentions a "leap second", and somehow misreads that into the claim that
CS>the rate of deceleration is about one second per day per year.
Aha, I wondered how they did that.

As a Bible-toting biologist, I have been fairly active on an Australian
conference called C_VS_E, and  I have found that the average "creation
scientist" who posts there has no knowledge of either the Bible or
biology, and even less of the other sciences.  This is significant to
you in America, as Australia is now a net exporter of printed "creation
science" material to the USA.

As a science educator, I am concerned that the creation "science" line
attacks not just evolution, but all of the sciences, and any small bits
which are not attacked are misrepresented.  The most popular fatuous
claim here is that evolution is contrary to the second law of
thermodynamics. The obvious answer to that, in case you have not heard
it: so is a baby!

BTW, can somebody closer to the object tell me what the geology around
the Niagara Falls is like?  I assume from photos that it is sedimentary,
but I would like to be correct in my assumptions.  (They tell us that
Niagara is wearing away so fast that is obviously new: we may be net
exporters of printed material to the US&A, but we got the original bilge
from there in the first place.  I think it's called taking in each
other's washing.)

Thanks again, Chris, for a well-researched and detailed rebuttal.  I
have marked it and saved it to a reference file for later use.

peter




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From: Joey.Villelli@p0.f14.n346.z1.fidonet.org (Joey Villelli)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.science
Subject: growth of towns
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 09:44:36 PDT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:346/14.0 - Room 5, Bonners Ferry ID

Hi, my name is Joey Villelli.  I live in Bonners Ferry, Idaho. I
attend Bonners Ferry High  School and am a Junior. I am interested
in the growth of towns.  In the last year property sales have went
up 13%.  And prices have gone up 15% from just one year ago.  Even
though the population hasn't jumped very much, most all businesses
have.  there are many more cars on the roads and traffic has gone
up 32% in the last three years.  I am interested in the growth of
other small towns.  Or the growth anywhere for that matter.  In our
town,  new houses are being built everywhere.  Property is being
sold rapidly around here mainly for security.  Our family owns
property, about 200 acres. If you own property or are interested in
property sales, please reply. Thank you. 


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Newsgroups: k12.ed.science
From: sg@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Scott Genzer)
Subject: Re: Mind-benders
Reply-To: sg@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Scott Genzer)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 21:05:07 GMT

This is in reference to Aaron's "mind-benders" request...one of my
favorites is what is known to probability experts as the Birthday
paradox:

The paradox (*) goes like this:  If there 23 people in a room (a
party, etc...), the probability of two people having the same birthday
is 1/2 or 0.5.  More surprising, if the number of people is increased
to 50 people, the probablity increases to 0.970, or a 97% chance that
two people will have the same birthday. 

You could try this in your class, or what works even better, in a
lunchroom or some place where there is about 50 people.  You have a
very good chance (97%) of finding two people with the same birthday.

(*) -- To those mathematics people out there, yes, this is not a
"paradox" in the true sense but rather it seems like one due to how
surprising the result it.  Most people not familiar with probability
theory would say you needed 182 people to get a probability of 1/2,
hence the "paradox" -- Apologies for the terminology.  

If people are interested, I can post the proof at a later date.  

Pretty neat, huh Aaron?

Scott Genzer
<sg@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu>
From: Lowell.Herr@f32.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Lowell Herr)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.science
Subject: Re: Evolution
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 15:38:00 PDT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:105/32 - On-Line Mutual Fund, Portland OR

 > AE     Don't be so hasty in your decision to disprove my
 > AEtheory! I

 > AEof "retardation" if calculated backwards probably would not
 > AEsupport
 > AEthe theory of evolution in the fact that the earth would

One cannot assume that the earth was always slowing down at the rate now
 observed.  It may have been rotating faster at one time or slower than the
 current rate.  Observation of other planets in the solar system give good
 evidence that all have been battered by "outer space" objects.  Take the moon
with all its craters as an excellent example. Sure the earth's orbit has been
 impacted by all this activity. 
Just the fact that we find tropical leaves in the arctic regions is reason
 enough to support the fact that the earth is not rotating on its axis as was
 once the case.  Perhaps some reader will have some ideas what caused this
 major change.

Lowell 

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Newsgroups: k12.ed.science
From: Lowell.Herr@f29.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Lowell Herr)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.science
Subject: Project PHYSLab
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 92 06:00:00 PDT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:105/29 - The Catlin Gabel Sc, Portland OR

Alan,  If you are interested in attending a two-week computer interfacing
 workshop contact me at (503) 297-1894.  This workshop will run from July 5th
 through July 16th, 1993.  There is a minimum $400 stipend and the opportunity
 to purchase up to $1,000 worth of equipment.  Oregon teachers will receive
 additional support, both for travel and equipment.

We will prepare physics teachers to use Mac and MS-DOS machines for data
 collecting.  Probes we use include motion detectors, force, light, sound,
 temperature, magnetic field, and radioactive.  We also work with a low-cost
 digital timer that is not commercially available.  All teachers go home with
 much of this equipment.
Graduate credit is available from the Oregon Graduate Institute. 
For an application, write to:

Project PHYSLab
Lowell G. Herr
The Catlin Gabel School
8825 S.W. Barnes Road
Portland, OR  97225


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From: rowe@pender.ee.upenn.edu (Mickey Rowe)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.science
Subject: Re: Evolution
Date: 20 Dec 92 21:38:37 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <31105.2B322E42@puddle.fidonet.org>
     Jessica.Smith@p0.f14.n346.z1.fidonet.org (Jessica Smith) writes:

 
>To Mickey-

>Do you believe there will ever be a solution to the
>evolution contraversy?  

I'm afraid that depends on how you define solution :-)  [In case
that's not clear, the colon hyphen parenthesis is a sideways smiley
face, which means that I'm half joking.]

>Will scientists ever have enough information to prove positively
>where we came from?

To really answer this, I'd have to drift a bit far from the topic of
science.  Rather than do that, I'll paraphrase something that Indiana
Jones said in "The Last Crusade".

  Science is in the business of finding facts, not truth.  If you want
to know something about the truth, go to Doug Arner's philosophy
course down the hall. (The names have been changed to protect the
innocent :-)  It is a fact that we share common ancestry with all
other known species on this planet.  That's the best a scientist can
say about the subject.  

>I couldn't find a copy of Wonderful Life by Stephen Jay Gould.

If you wish to search for it in a book store (hopefully you can find a
store that has it in stock so that you can look at it and decide
whether or not you want to buy it...) it was published in 1989 by W.W.
Norton in New York.  I suggested it to you for some of the broad
explanations of evolution--what scientists do and do not think about
the subject.  Perhaps a better book for your specific interests
(though one that I haven't read yet; I'm basing my recommendation on
my familiarity with other works by the author, and by the word of
friends who have read it), is Jared Diamond's book _The Third
Chimpanzee: The Evolution and Future of the Human Animal_.  It was
published in 1992 by Harper Collins in New York.

[I cut out a section where you discriminate between the words "think",
"know" and "believe" because I have nothing to say about your
sentiments other than that I agree with them.]

>Do you believe in the ruling that creationism cannot be taught in
>classrooms?

I take it you're asking if I agree that the ruling went the way that
it should have?  If so, then my answer is unequivocally yes.
Creationism is *not* science (at least the form of creationism pushed
by people who are most involved in trying to get creationism in
science classes is not).  There is no testible theory of creation and
until there is, and until that theory passes some form of scientific
examination, creationism has no place in the science classroom.

>But they can teach evolution although they aren't teaching facts?

I can't address this unless you tell me specifically what it is that
you think is non-factual and is yet taught.

>Jessica Smith 

>uucp: uunet!m2xenix!puddle!346!14.0!Jessica.Smith
>Internet: Jessica.Smith@p0.f14.n346.z1.fidonet.org

Mickey Rowe     (rowe@pender.ee.upenn.edu)
From: Sara.Pressly@p0.f14.n346.z1.fidonet.org (Sara Pressly)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.science
Subject: Applied Genetics
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 10:34:14 PDT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:346/14.0 - Room 5, Bonners Ferry ID

My Biology II class recently finished studying applied genetics,
the manipulation of the hereditary characteristics of an organisms
to improve or create specific traits in an offspring.  Essentially
applied genetics is human beings playing God.  I have mixed
feelings about applied genetics.  First of all, I do not think that
any human being has the right to create a species or to improve a
species, especially when they majority do it for money, as in the
livestock industry.  Then again by scientist playing God, a lot of
could be birth defects have been corrected while the baby is still
developing.  I also know that applied genetics has help find cures
for certain terminal disease, and possible may come up with a cure
for cancer.  Even though good things come from this genetic
manipulation, I still think that only Mother Nature herself should
be able to create new species, or improve them through evolution.
I was wondering how others felt about applied genetics, and if they
feel that human should be able to take on the role as God. 


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Newsgroups: k12.ed.science
Subject: Re: Sat Images 2nd Try
From: rirons@eis.calstate.edu (Ralph Irons)
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 19:33:57 GMT
Organization: Calif State Univ/Electronic Information Services

Thanks to all who have responded. Diskettes and instructions will 
be mailed out after Christmas. Most respondents, not being CSUNet
users, will have to modify the scripts which retrieve images. I'll
be happy to assist with this. Happy holidays,

          Ralph Irons
          Shafter High School
From: Jerry.Saville@f2051.n147.z1.fidonet.org (Jerry Saville)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.science
Subject: SPECIATION (WAS: "RE:
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 92 13:20:00 PDT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:147/2051 - The O.U. BBS, Norman OK

 -=> Quoting Chris Stassen to All <=-

 CS> And even
 CS> though one must hold one's nose while doing so, it is a good idea to
 CS> familiarize one's self with creationist materials (e.g., [11]).

  Why, sir, do you attempt to "preopinionate" these young people with your
  slashing remarks?
  I think that you should let the material stand for itself.

... RAM = Rarely Adequate Memory
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.11


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From: Lowell.Herr@f32.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Lowell Herr)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.science
Subject: RELIGION, SKIING AND
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 92 05:18:00 PDT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:105/32 - On-Line Mutual Fund, Portland OR

 > DWThe Bible is an interpretation of God's word by men.  They

We are attempting to keep this echo reserved for science discussions.
Thank you for your cooperation.

Moderator 

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From: Cindy.Cole@f152.n321.z1.fidonet.org (Cindy Cole)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.science
Subject: Wolves
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 92 10:01:00 PDT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:321/152 - SpaceMet North 2, Greenfield MA

She:Kon Kwe Kwe
    Every time man has tried to act as God he has really botched up the process.  Wolves are part of the food chain and have historically been maligned by European folktales  and seeing as their usefulness has been questioned they were indiscriminantly slaughtered to the point of extinction in many areas.  Hence the deer and related four-legged ones have been allowed to reproduce and in many areas the populations have grown to such magnitude that death by starvation is their grime reaper.  Wolves and man a
re natural predators.  The wolves main diet from my understanding , and this is based on Farley Mowetts book is more heavily relient on rodents than the four legged ones.  When it is the fourlegged ones it is usually one of the older weakeded, sick, diseased, or newborns.  This process has provedto be one that monitors the health of the herd and keeps the genetics on the strong side.  They, the wolves, care for their own and have a hierarchy jwhich seems to me better than a lot of what mankind has been rec
ently practicing and if nothing else they can teach us the lessons which we once knew.
                                          Sken:nen


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From: Dawn.Linke@p0.f14.n346.z1.fidonet.org (Dawn Linke)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.science
Subject: cancer research
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 08:14:40 PDT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:346/14.0 - Room 5, Bonners Ferry ID




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From: Jessie.Bailey@p0.f14.n346.z1.fidonet.org (Jessie Bailey)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.science
Subject: UFO's
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 09:25:23 PDT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:346/14.0 - Room 5, Bonners Ferry ID

To Russell Lucas:
 
Hi.  My name is Jessie Bailey and I am a senior in high school.  I
attend Bonners Ferry High School which is located in Northern
Idaho.  My entire life, I have been interested in UFO's.  I came
across your message to Kevin Morris on UFO's.  I wrote an article
on UFO's  on the BBS and got a reply from Kevin Morris.  I, like
Kevin and you, am extremely interested in UFO's and sightings of
UFO's.  I read that you have an interesting story to tell
concerning UFO's.  If you have the time, and wouldn't mind, I would
love to hear it!  I have never, personally, had the privilege of
seeing a UFO, but I have read many articles on the subject.  I find
it very interesting that hundreds of people all over the world have
claimed to have seen UFO's and still they are labeled as "wacky" or
just simply liars.  Why would so many people lie about having
sighted a UFO?  And if they are lying, why is it that the
explanations of their experiences are so similar?  Please get back
to me on this matter if you would still like talk.  Thank you for
your time.
 
Jessie Bailey 


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