HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Citecheck Hell)
Subject: Re: "Gang Bang" series
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 18:53:28 GMT

In article <1600@seqp4.sequoia.com> ajm@seqp4.sequoia.com (A.J.Madison) writes:
>In article <1afo2vINNm7q@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, bz269@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (James D. Del Vecchio) writes:
>> 	A silly story.  That tale is an urban ledgend if anything is.
>
>This is a story that is way garbaled in transmission.  Here's the actual
>facts.
>
>a. The woman from NH appears in an amateur video in a vanilla sex act.
>b. She did not know she was being taped when it was made.  Nor did she consent
>   to it being made publically available.
>c. The man also proceeded to abuse the woman, physically, verbally, and
>   finally sexually, that is, the logical extreme.  The rape was not recorded
>   on tape.
>d. The woman, reeling from this experience, discovers to her horror, that a
>   recording of her in a sex act with this guy has been distributed more or
>   less nationally, and a copy of it is available in one of the local video
>   rental stores.  Her feelings about this particular sex act are equivalent
>   to rape, though it was not at the time.  She rents/rented the tape to keep
>   other people from seeing it.
>e. This woman, with little or no direct legal recourse, has little influence
>   on the status of this tape as well as the continuing trama it brings her.
>   This situation is one of the centerpieces of the recent anti-pornography
>   legislation under consideration in the US Congress, and the
>   McKinnon-Dworkin legislation here in Massachusetts.

This still sounds UL'ish.  Especially the part about "no legal recourse,"
which is completely untrue.  Del Vechhio's original observations re part
d of the story still hold true (that it's a wee overdramatic that the
woman rents the tape rather than buys/steals it.)
-- 
           .. . . .  .  .   .    .     .     .    .   .  .  . . . ..
          ted frank | thf2@midway.uchicago.edu | standard disclaimers
         the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637


-- 
  
        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com
  
 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!

       "Beware when the great God lets loose a thinker on this planet.
        Then all things are at risk. It is as when a conflagration has
        broken out in a great city, and no man knows what is safe, or
        where it will end."
                               - Emerson: Essay, "Circles"
--
Carl Kadie -- kadie@cs.uiuc.edu -- University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.politics.elections,uiuc.civil-liberty,alt.sex,rec.arts.fine
From: kadie@herodotus.cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie)
Subject: [Republicans] On Pornography
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 21:17:40 GMT

[Michael Lax has posted the Republican Platform to
alt.politics.elections. Here are the excerpts related to pornography,
arts funding, and censorship. - Carl]

"We must recognize that the time has come for a national crusade
against pornography.  Some would have us believe that obscenity and
pornography have no social impact.  But if hard- core pornography does
not cheapen the human spirit, then neither does Shakespeare elevate
it.  We call on federal agencies to halt the sale, under government
auspices, of pornographic materials.  We endorse Republican
legislation, the Pornography Victims Compensation Act, allowing the
victims of pornography to seek damages from those who make or sell it,
especially since the Commission on Pornography, in 1986, found a
direct link between pornography and violent crimes committed against
women and children. [...] We also believe that the various State
legislatures should create a civil cause of action against makers and
distributors of pornography when their material incites a violent
crime. [...]  Government has a responsibility, as well, to ensure that
it promote the common moral values that bind us together as a Nation.
We therefore condemn the use of public funds to subsidize obscenity
and blasphemy masquerading as art.  The fine arts, including those
with public support, can certainly enrich our society.  However, no
artist has an inherent right to claim taxpayer support for his or her
private vision of art if that vision mocks the moral and spiritual
basis on which our society is founded."

- Carl
--
Carl Kadie -- kadie@cs.uiuc.edu -- University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk
From: greeny@top.cis.syr.edu (J. S. Greenfield)
Subject: Re: Censorship at Iowa State
Keywords: long......
Organization: Syracuse University, CIS Dept.
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 92 16:40:58 EDT

In article <1992Sep26.130228.5143@eff.org> kadie@eff.org (Carl M. Kadie) writes:

>[...]
>>the University of Arizona (a private school).
>[...]
>
>I think U of Arizona is a state school. Tuition last year was $1528,
>pretty inexpensive and to the dollar exactly the same as Arizona State
>University. [Source: U.S. News' college guide]

I guess that's my mistake.  If U. of A. is a public school, then all I can
say is that one can't expect a public school to obey the law unless they
are forced to.  If one isn't willing to challenge an illegal policy, then
they are left at the mercy of the administration.


-- 
J. S. Greenfield                                         greeny@top.cis.syr.edu
(I like to put 'greeny' here, 
but my d*mn system wants a 
*real* name!)                        "What's the difference between an orange?"
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk
From: edf444esft@vx24.cc.monash.edu.au
Subject: Re: Censorship at Iowa State
Organization: Computer Centre, Monash University, Australia
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 05:16:37 GMT

In article <1992Sep27.164058.18896@newstand.syr.edu>, greeny@top.cis.syr.edu (J. S. Greenfield) writes:
> In article <1992Sep26.130228.5143@eff.org> kadie@eff.org (Carl M. Kadie) writes:
> 
>>[...]
>>>the University of Arizona (a private school).
>>[...]
>>
>>I think U of Arizona is a state school. Tuition last year was $1528,
>>pretty inexpensive and to the dollar exactly the same as Arizona State
>>University. [Source: U.S. News' college guide]
> 
> I guess that's my mistake.  If U. of A. is a public school, then all I can
> say is that one can't expect a public school to obey the law unless they
> are forced to.  If one isn't willing to challenge an illegal policy, then
> they are left at the mercy of the administration.
> 
> 
> -- 
> J. S. Greenfield                                         greeny@top.cis.syr.edu
> (I like to put 'greeny' here, 
> but my d*mn system wants a 
> *real* name!)                        "What's the difference between an orange?"
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Newsgroups: alt.censorship
Subject: Re: Jesus was from outer space!
Date: 3 Oct 92 03:47:42 GMT
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison


In article <1687411420.N020BA@tamvm1.tamu.edu>
N020BA@tamvm1.tamu.edu writes:

>In article <1992Sep22.125522.1330@cnsvax.uwec.edu>
>drumm@cnsvax.uwec.edu (Danny) writes:

>>We have a student at our university [who] just expects
>>everyone else to read his [off the wall] material.

>>I don't know what to do!  I can't reason with someone who
>>does not use any reason.

>Ignore this person.  It sounds like he's trying to get
>attention by his rantings.  No-one is forcing anyone to read
>his posts, so there is no harm done.

>As for complaints, politely ignore them.  

>There are too many people who think that others should walk
>on eggshells for them.  There are those who have no sense of
>humor, and others who think that that everyone else should
>post as they do.

Be that as it may, "cantcha take a joke" is one of the most
common of all reactions displayed by bigots and other
hooligans who get called out for their remarks.  The world
does not consist only of individualists.  Tolerance is a
social phenomenon, not a one-way license to be a brat.

That said, I agree with your general points:

-  the person is probably seeking attention;
-  not feeding that is a good general approach;
-  no real injury is taking place;
-  explaining everybody's rights to those who are
   offended is often a useful reminder.

Another factor may be pertinent, as I believe it was in a
celebrated case on our campus.  After a series of
extraordinarily bigotted postings to a wide variety of
newsgroups, someone recognized that this particular person
was very probably having a nervous breakdown.  His
department took a sympathetic but proactive role in guiding
him toward professional help.  

The Eau Claire case sounds a bit less severe, but sometimes
it helps to recognize that everyone has human needs, but not
everyone chooses the most suitable ways to get them met.

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.politics.elections
From: greeny@top.cis.syr.edu (J. S. Greenfield)
Subject: Re: Mike Royko: Schwarzenegger and Family Values
Organization: Syracuse University, CIS Dept.
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 15:14:45 EDT

In article <1992Sep30.201130.12074@midway.uchicago.edu> shou@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>>>
>>>What a completely nonsensical view.  Take note:  Arnold was playing a
>>>_bad guy_.  In the end, he gets killed by the _good guys_.  I know this
>>>is a hard concept to grasp among those who have a hard time telling the
>>>difference, but still it's an important one.
>>
>>Gee, when Ice-T portrays a character in one of his songs that supports
>>killing police, the Republicans are up in arms.
>
>Dig.  Ice T's work (as well as his public statements) supports killing
>cops.  Arnold's work does not.  There are two different messages here.
>This is a very difficult distinction, I know.  But strive if you can
>to grasp it.

Please support this claim by providing in-context quotes where Ice-T
supports killing cops.

I have heard Ice-T speak on this issue on a number of occassions.  I have
heard him say that we need to get rid of (note--that doesn't mean kill)
the bad cops.  I have heard him say that he believes that many youths
have been so victimized by cops that they have developed a mentality
such as that portrayed by his song.  I have heard him explicitly say
that his *portrayal* of a character in the song has been misinterpreted
for his own feelings.

I have yet to hear him say that he supports doing what is portrayed
in his song.


-- 
J. S. Greenfield                                         greeny@top.cis.syr.edu
(I like to put 'greeny' here, 
but my d*mn system wants a 
*real* name!)                        "What's the difference between an orange?"
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,misc.legal,alt.politics.correct,soc.culture.jewish
From: isbell@ai.mit.edu (Charles L Isbell)
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,misc.legal,alt.politics.correct,alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk
Subject: Re: "Multiculturalism and the First Amendment"
Date: 27 Sep 92 12:41:21 GMT
	<1992Sep27.022633.4984@panix.com> <1992Sep27.051056.16084@eff.org>
Followup-To: alt.censorship
Organization: MIT Artificial Intelligence Laboratory
In-reply-to: kadie@eff.org's message of 27 Sep 92 05:10:56 GMT

kadie@eff.org (Carl M. Kadie) writes:
|lkk@panix.com (Larry Kolodney) writes:
|>Correction:  The black student put up a Nazi Flag, which she equated
|>with the confederate flag in terms of offensiveness.  I believe that
|>both students eventually removed their flags voluntarily after
|>negotiations.
|[...]
|That was probably my mistake. I wasn't sure what the second display
|was.

|Mr. Hentoff said that the black student's flag was removed volentarily
|at the request of a black student group who felt that it interfering
|with their discussions with Jewish students. The original flag,
|however, stayed up until the student graduated. Hentoff said that he
|confirmed this for a newspaper story it wrote about it.

My understanding was that the Black woman was forced to take her flag
down (strong Jewish lobby) while the White woman kept hers up forever
(weaker Black lobby).

I find the situation telling, but I'm not sure how important the event
is.
--
Peace.
       "We should develop anti-satellite weapons because we could not 
        have prevailed without them in 'Red Storm Rising'."
                         -- Vice President Dan Quayle
                                   -\--/-
    Don't just adopt opinions     |  \/  |       Some of you are homeboys
          develop them.           |  /\  | but only I am The Homeboy From hell
                                   -/--\-

From: Tom.Cavender@f2020.n112.z1.fidonet.org (Tom Cavender)
Sender: FredGate@iphase.UUCP
Newsgroups: alt.censorship
Subject: Re: banned in usa is now
Date: 18 Sep 92  18:26:00 EST

-> Newsgroups: alt.censorship,rec.arts.tv
-> Organization: Masters student, Mechanical Engineering, Carnegie
-> Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
-> Reply-To: <BDmyqB1w164w@jab.tucson.az.us>
-> Date: 13 Sep 92 10:15:44 GMT
->
-> If anyone knows when the program will be aired, please let me know.
-> And if I happen to miss it, I'll pay for a video-taped copy!
->
-> David

Unfortunately, a judge has granted the Tupelo Ayatollah a restraining order while he appeals the case.  I don't think Wildmon has a snowball's chance in H-E-double hockey sticks of winning this case, but suppressing speech is Wildmon's favorite pastime, isn't it?

Like you, I'm looking forward to "Damned in the USA".  Hope PBS will have the cajones to show it.

Pax,

<<<Tom Cavender>>>

 * Origin: Aether (1:112/2020)
20 
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From: Ken.Cusick@f2020.n112.z1.fidonet.org (Ken Cusick)
Sender: FredGate@iphase.UUCP
Newsgroups: alt.censorship
Subject: Re: limiting religious sp
Date: 14 Sep 92  04:25:00 EST

-> Bible to support bigamy?  Or would you rather this teacher stick with
-> what (s)he is certified to teach?

Just put this in the back of your mind in case you ever think of moving to Florida.

In Florida, private school educators don't even have to know how to spell the name of the subjects they teach.

My 97 year old grandmother, who never went to school, is qualified to teach High School Trig, in a private school.

How is it in your state?


BTW,
My Basset is looking for work.
She would like to teach, possibly Latin. She has a penchant for Ovid, Horace, Dog Biscuits and back scratches.



Did you know there is a traffic in certain "private educators" between states?  ......but that's a different can of worms....

 * Origin: Aether (1:112/2020)
20 
20 
20 
20 

Newsgroups: alt.censorship
From: N020BA@tamvm1.tamu.edu
Subject: Re: Jesus was from outter space!
Organization: Texas A&M University
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 00:37:52 GMT

In article <1992Sep22.125522.1330@cnsvax.uwec.edu>
drumm@cnsvax.uwec.edu (Danny) writes:
 
>
>
>Help!  Your opinions are needed!
>
>
>We have a student at our university that insists on posting garbage to
>lists and newsgroups across the internet.  Garbage is my own feeling about
>it, some examples are:
>
>Mark of the Bea$t -- bar codes
>Quack cures for cancer.
>Jesus was a space cannable.
>life on mars
>etc, you get the picture.
>
>
>While I believe very strongly in the first amendment, I also believe in
>the right no to be harassed, and have to read about quack cancer cures
>on a comp.ibmpc newsgroup.
>
>We are getting many complaints from people about these postings, but we
>are not sure how to respond.  Many of the posts are only vaguely
>associated to the lists they are posted to.  and the kicker is that this
>person is not in any discussions on these lists.  He just expects everyone
>else to read his material.
>
>I don't know what to do!  I can't reason with someone who does not use
>any reason.
    Ignore this person. It sounds like he's trying to get attention by his
rantings. No-one is forcing anyone to read his posts, so there is no harm
done. If you can't ignore him, laugh at his garbage.
    As for complaints, politely ignore them. There are too many people who
think that others should walk on eggshells for them. There are those who
have no sense of humor, and others who think that that everyone else should
post as they do. It's about time that people with tolerance and a sense of
humor be counted. Those who have no sense of humor, expect others to walk
on eggshells, and expect others to cater to them all the time should get a
life!
 
========================================================================
The truth may hurt, but lies hurt more.  | My opinions are mine and mine
The difference between left-wing incomp- | alone. I speak for myself and
etence and right-wing incompetence is    | no-one else.
the difference between cat #$!& and dog  |______________________________
#$!&. Reply to N020BA@tamvm1.tamu.edu.        Bill and Opus in '92!!
Newsgroups: alt.censorship
From: waf9851@zeus.tamu.edu (FULLER, WALTER ANDREW III)
Subject: Pending suit against Planned Parenthood
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 05:01:00 GMT

I heard from a guy today who is planning to file a lawsuit against
Planned parenthood for contributing to the delinquency of minors by
providing them with condoms.  His reasoning:  since sex with a minor
under the age of 14 in Texas is defined as "sexual assault" (regardless
of the age of the minor's partner), then providing a condom to a minor
who is under 14 constitutes the crime of "contributing to the delinquincy of
a minor".

I may not be the smartest guy in the world, but I'm sure there is a
sound legal reason why his argument does not hold up. Does anyone know
if his presumptions and/or reasonings are valid?

Newsgroups: alt.censorship
From:  ()
Subject: banned newsgroup at u of o
Organization: University of Oregon Network Services
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 92 19:33:18 GMT

alt.binaries.pictures.erotica has been banned from University of Oregon. 
Isn't this
censorship?
Newsgroups: alt.censorship
From: kadie@herodotus.cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie)
Subject: [alt.feminism] Re: Catharine MacKinnon, Playboy and feminist propaganda (Was: Value of...)
Followup-To: alt.censorship,alt.feminism
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 01:01:41 GMT

[A repost - Carl]

From: gcf@panix.com (Gordon Fitch)
Newsgroups: alt.feminism
Subject: Re: Catharine MacKinnon, Playboy and feminist propaganda (Was: Value of...)
Date: 4 Oct 92 02:03:48 GMT

barry@netcom.com (Kenn Barry) writes:
| >| 	I suspect that Hillel, like myself, is forever amazed that any
| >| response beyond "garbage" to such hilarious tripe is needed. Mackinnon
| >| is simply espousing that most ancient of human superstitions, animism,
| >| the belief that objects (magazines and photographs, in this instance)
| >| contain a _geist_, an animating spirit of their own. "Playboy" cannot
| >| objectify women; every issue I've ever seen just sat there, on table or
| >| shelf, thoroughly inanimate. Objectification is done by the
| >| viewer/reader. ...

gcf@panix.com (Gordon Fitch) writes:
| >Do you mean to say that one cannot use the term _Playboy_ 
| >to mean the whole system of composing, publishing, selling,
| >buying, and reading _Playboy_, as McKinnon is clearly doing,
| >and be understood?

kb:
| 	Gosh, Gordon, if I'd meant to say that, I would have said it,
| wouldn't I? And my article would have stopped where your quote of it
| did. If you can't comprehend the entire argument, don't bother
| responding to just the 1st paragraph.

Why not, if it seems to contain an absurdity?  How am I 
supposed to get past the statement that "'Playboy' cannot
objectify women [because it's] inanimate"?  And you went
to a lot of trouble to say it, too, even using a little
German.  Once someone starts throwing in German words, 
giving text that Teutonic heft, I assume they think 
they're saying something pretty important.

kb:
| 	I despise the practise of writing down to the reader; it's
| patronizing. If you find sense in the nonsense she writes, perhaps you
| can do better? You could hardly be worse :-).

I only know what I read in the newspapers, and you know
what that's worth.  The New York Times did an article on
her a year or two ago which quoted her extensively, and
while I disagreed with much of what she was said to have 
said, it certainly wasn't either nonsense or 
patronization.  Or were you being hyperbolic?

-- 
 )*(    Gordon Fitch    )*(    gcf@panix.com    )*(
( 1238 Blg. Grn. Sta.,  NY NY 10274 * 718.273.5556 )
--
Carl Kadie -- kadie@cs.uiuc.edu -- University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
From: allens@yang.earlham.edu (Allen Smith)
Newsgroups: alt.censorship
Subject: Re: Supreme Court and U.S. Constitution (was Re:
Date: 6 Oct 92 01:03:39 GMT
Organization: Earlham College, Richmond, Indiana

In article <1992Oct5.142847.19633@nntp.hut.fi>, jkp@cs.HUT.FI (Jyrki Kuoppala) writes:
> In article <1992Oct3.085046.23065@newstand.syr.edu>, greeny@top (J. S. Greenfield) writes:
>>Where an individual disagrees with the SC as to the "proper" interpretation
>>of the document, he or she should feel free to say "According to the SC..."
>>And where one provides one's *own* interpretation, it should be prefaced
>>with something to the effect of "IMHO..."
> 
> Best would be to use to use both, but to make a point it is IMHO
> sufficient to say "The Supreme Court says that censoring obscenity is
> constitutional, while the Constitution itself doesn't prohibit
> obscenity and thus the prohibition on obscenity is unconstitutional".
> 
	How about "The Supreme Court says that censoring obscenity is 
constitutional, but the Bill of Rights states that the government is not 
permitted to restrict the Freedom of the Press or of Speech; thus, 
government prohibition of obscenity is unconstitutional."
	-Allen
Newsgroups: alt.censorship
From: kadie@herodotus.cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie)
Subject: [alt.fan.douglas-adams] Re: Censorship: Kneebiter
Followup-To: alt.censorship,alt.fan.douglas-adams
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 17:01:44 GMT

[A repost - Carl]

Newsgroups: alt.fan.douglas-adams
From: quendor@hardy.u.washington.edu ()
Subject: Re: Censorship: Kneebiter
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 20:24:10 GMT

aproden@ac.dal.ca (Andrew P. Rodenhiser) writes:


>I have two copies of Life, the Universe, and Everything (one
>as part of the Complete Hitchhiker's Guide- 4 books plus the
>Zaphod story) and there is blatant censorship in one version.
>At the very start, on the second page, an alien accosts Arthur
>and calls him an asshole.  In the other version, it's changed
>to "kneebiter".  Anybody know why?

   As I understand it, the kneebiter version is the American release
whereas the asshole version is the briitish release and as Adams
intended it in the first place. Additionally, the entire essay on the
word "belgium"(excuse my vulgerity) was intirely for the benefit of
amreican publishing companies so they wouldn't have to print the word
"fuck".

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
: Quendor of An Tir is   :  "Who'd notice another insane man around here?"    :
: mudanely refered to as :                 - Capt. Edmund Blackadder          :
: Don Sowell by some and :-----------------------------------------------------
: not refered to at all  :      E-mail address: quendor@u.washington.edu      :
: by others. Sigh.       :      Home: some computer lab on the UW campus      :
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Carl Kadie -- kadie@cs.uiuc.edu -- University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Newsgroups: alt.irc