HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: v075q5fr@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Scott J Gorcey)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Lacarno = Kirk (Spoilers "1st Duty)
Date: 7 Apr 92 22:55:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: acsu.1992Apr7.215631.13407
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

Pieces of the Discussion:


>>>	The main difference that I see between Kirk and Locarno is that
>>>Locarno had no sense of responsibility.  Yes, Kirk flew by the seat of his
>>>pants, but he was always willing to face the consequences of whatever he
>>>got into.  Look at Amok Time.  Kirk was willing to throw away his career
>>>for his friend, an act that he repeated in STIII.  He knew that he would
>>>be throwing away his career, and was willing to do so.  Locarno had
>>>no such sense of responsibility.  He wanted to cover his mistake.  Kirk
>>>never attempted to cover his tracks.  He was always ready to face the music.

     Remember please: Kirk was 34 years old and a seasoned starship captain
     during "Amok Time" (TOS season 2).  Locarno was a 21 year old CADET.
     Big difference.

     How can you say Kirk was ready to face the music in ST III?  He hid
     out on Vulcan for THREE MONTHS while he was tried in absentia -- he
     didn't have the balls to go to Earth and face his accusors head on.          


>>What about the Kobayashi Maru scenario that he reprogrammed in the academy?
>>As Picard pointed out, if Locarno had actually been successful, he would
>>have thrilled the audience and become a living legend at the academy.
>>
>>Kirk couldn't deal with the no-win scenario at that time and neither could
>>Locarno.

     Agreed.

>Um, what are you talking about?  Kirk reprogrammed the computer to let
>him win, but he didn't expect to get away with it.  He was just angry
>and decided that he was going to show the instructers that he wasn't
>willing to accept the no-win scenario.  His reprogramming was very
>clever and I would secretly commend him for it and then make sure nobody
>ever found out what he had done.

     What makes you think Kirk didn't try to get away with it?  Nowhere
     are we told he didn't try to get away with it.

>As for Locarno, you make no sense.  Locarno was a legend in the academy
>already because he had lead the team to some sort of victory at an
>air show.  He was unsatisfied and risked the lives of his team mates
>to get even more glory.  He was on some sort of glory/power trip.

     Evidence for this please.  

>Your comparison between Kirk's reprogramming the Computer in Kobyashi
>Maru and Locarno's foolish actions makes no sense. Locarno was not in
>a no-win scenario.

     Yes he was.  No matter the course he chose for Nova Squadron 
     following the accident, someone was going to lose.  Either Josh
     (his memory, his family), himself, the squad, or the squad
     individually.  What's your definition of a no-win situation?


          ^Hot Damn, That Pie Was Good!^
                     Common Phrases Heard at
                     RR Diner #32.

          ^Scott Gorcey, v075q5fr@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu^
From: cglover@lonestar.utsa.edu (Calvin G. Glover)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Why did the Glass Break! Cause and Effect
Date: 10 Apr 92 21:37:58 GMT
Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio

In article <2173@tredysvr.Tredydev.Unisys.COM> matt@tredysvr.Tredydev.Unisys.COM (Matthew G. Kile) writes:


    even though i feel this topic has been beaten to death, i'm going to
    be weak and ask my question.

    when the boseman hit the enterprise it apparently was not critically
    wounded.  if it was traveling at, let's say, full impulse, could it
    have traveled far enough away to avoid being caught in the explosion
    that sent the e. back through a loop.  i mean, it had at least 18 seconds
    prob. more like 25-30.  just because the enterprise went into a loop
    doesn't nec. mean the boseman had to.  it could have been far enough away
    to avoid the loop.  meanwhile the enterprise goes back into the loop
    only to find the boseman there, again and again, since she WAS there
    the first time.

    the temporal loop was obviously a localized phenomenon.  by that, i mean
    the whole universe was not affected.  this is true because they determined
    how long they had been trapped in the loop by calibrating with a federation
    starbase clock (or something to that effect).  that means that while the
    enterprise lost 17 days, life elsewhere in the universe kept marching
    on.  so if the boseman was not dragged into the loop, you have two
    possibilities (that i can think of):

    1)  since this is, de facto, a show about the enterprise and her crew, the
        show, quite naturally, is shown from their point of view.  so even
        if the boseman escaped the loop, from the enterprise point of view
        it was there everytime.  if this is the case,  what happened to
        the boseman from the boseman point of view.  if the boseman was far
        enough away to avoid the loop that caught the enterprise, does this
        mean that their are now two bosemans?

    2)  the boseman that escaped the loop snaps out of existence when the
        trapped boseman is freed thanks to the e. crew.

    one could avoid this argument by assuming that the boseman was destroyed
    however that would just be avoiding the tough questions now posed.

    just some thoughts to play around with.  time is a scary thing.

-- 
    *  "i should not talk so much about myself if there were anybody else  *
    *   whom i knew as well.  Unfortunately, i am confined to this theme   *
    *   by the narrowness of my experience"  -- henry david thoreau        *
From: "bernie wong" <bernie.wong@canrem.com>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: first duty
Date: 11 Apr 92 13:34:51 EST
Reply-To: "bernie wong" <bernie.wong@canrem.com>
Distribution: rec
Organization: Canada Remote Systems

KB>A few weeks ago on Good Morning America, they did a broadcast from the set o
  >G. They showed a clip form the series which I did not, at the time recognize
  >After viewing "First Duty', I realized that the clip was from this episode.
  >Now my question: In the clip they showed on Good Morn. America, there was a
  >Female Klingon in a Starfleet uniform. On "First Duty", this same clip did n
  >ppear, but in the background of one of the scenes in the hearing room, I bel
  >I saw this same female Klingon in a Starfleet uniform. Did anyone else notic
  >is?

I did not see Good Morning America (I'm Canadian!  :-)) but I did read
this magazine.  I think it was called Entertainment Weekly.  Anyways,
that week they did a profile on the upcoming episode The First Duty.
And for the cover page they had this large two page pinnout out of a
quite zit-faced Wesley kissing a female Klingon (both in Academy
uniforms).  But you're right, I never saw this in the episode.  I can't
confirm whether she was in the hearing room or not, but I'll check!
Besides, I want to get a better look at that pewter model of the E...
---
  OLX 2.1 TD  Help me! I've fallin' and I can't reach my beer.
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario/Detroit, MI
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
From: njm@vax1.mankato.msus.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Parallel Universes
Date: 15 Apr 92 17:11:42 GMT
Article-I.D.: vax1.1992Apr15.111142.1728
Organization: Mankato State University



In response to your recent posting on parallel universes, I would like to add:

WHO CARES!!!??

Stop bickering over an argument that cannot be solve!
Go on with your lives!
Get off the computer and go do something spontaneous!
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: tlynch@cco.caltech.edu (Timothy W. Lynch)
Subject: Re: Locarno = Kirk (Spoilers "First Duty"))
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 21:37:24 GMT

goodwin@orionsci (Ben Goodwin) writes:
>In article <1992Apr8.223344.12153@cco.caltech.edu> tlynch@cco.caltech.edu (Timothy W. Lynch) writes:

>>IN PART.  It was not an exam per se, but it was designed, IMHO, to drive home
>>the very really lesson that *there are times you can't win*.  Kirk COULD NOT
>>accept that, and it's a sign of gross immaturity.  It served him well in some
>>ways; he might never have survived the encounter with the First Federation
>>without it, to be sure.  But it is a deep, deep character flaw, and one that
>>was exploited magnificently well in ST2.
>>
>>The investigators learned plenty, sure.  Kirk, however, learned nothing.  And
>>apparently, you think that's just fine.

>Hum, gross immaturity.  Well maybe in part.  

Finally.  That's all I've been trying to argue; not that Kirk's a horrible 
person.

>Yes I saw ST2.  Good movie!

Agreed.  :-)

>>>You can't compare the two.  I mean, you can, but the comparison doesn't
>>>work.  Are you implying that if Kirk was bad at say Astrophysics that
>>>he would have cheated to graduate?
>>
>>Possibly.

>I am distressed Tim. This slanderous attack on Kirk is very interesting.

Slander?  I said "possibly".  Not "Of course he would", or even "quite
probably".  "Possibly."  "Slanderous" is a harsh word; you'd better be able
to back it up, Ben.

>I love it when people are so willing to perform character assasination
>with no evidence. The above attack is unfounded, unfair, and might show
>just a teensy weensy character flaw in your personality. 

Hey, you can argue about my personality all you want; but since the
discussion is generally about Trek, you might find a certain lack of 
interest.  Read what I've been saying on this subject before you start
lobbying accusations of Kirk-bashing, would you please?

Tim Lynch
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: jamesb@nevada.edu (James Bender)
Subject: Re: Boothby and Picard:  TFD
Organization: University of Nevada System Computing Services
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 19:36:32 GMT

>
>I assume this is either a hologram-yearbook or some sort of on-line
>database of all students.  I can't believe they'd still have
>PAPER yearbooks in that day and age.  Of course, if they can't afford
>to get rid of the damn doorknobs (we've only seen one on the Enterprise,
>and he sits in the captain's seat) maybe they can't afford to get rid of
>paper at SFA either.
>
	Of course they have paper yearbooks. Can you imagine how hard it 
would be to sign your name on someones PADD?  :)


From:     		jamesb@redrock.nevada.edu
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Waffles are nothing more than a vehicle for butter and syrup"
							-- Dr. Forrester
From: kbanerje@grad00.math.ncsu.edu (Kaushik Banerjee)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: TROI'S BIG BUTT
Date: 15 Apr 92 01:11:01 GMT
Organization: NCSU Mathematics Dept.

I must say, I have not noticed Troi's butt getting bigger. Perhaps the growth of her butt has to do with relativistic effects?
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: hucke@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Matt Hucke)
Subject: Re: Deep Space Nine Promo!
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 14:58:44 GMT

In article <92106.211938U28802@uicvm.uic.edu> John D. Talbot, Maverick Philosopher <U28802@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:
>Anybody out there paged thru Okuda and Sternbach's TNG Technical Manual?
>The manual (intended loosely as a guide for writers) sez that the 1701-D
>is designed for an operational lifetime of approx. 100 years. I must admit
>to still being somewhat skeptical about the prospects and content of DS9,
>and would rather see a new set of missions for the next crew assigned to
>1701-D. There's still a wealth of storylines the writers could come up with,
>methinks. Comments, anybody?

I'd rather see a new series set in the 2290s (just after ST6), because the
ships and uniforms look better then than they ever will again, Starfleet
is more military, and there is more opportunity for guest appearances of
TOS people.

Captain Sulu on the Excelsior would be best, but other ships and crews could
also be interesting.


-- 
   And thither came Conan, a thief, a reaver, a slayer, to tread the jeweled 
   thrones of the Earth beneath his sandaled feet.  --THE NEMEDIAN CHRONICLES 
hucke@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu                               Gene Roddenberry 1921-1991
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: tlynch@cco.caltech.edu (Timothy W. Lynch)
Subject: Re: Lynch's Spoiler Review: "The First Duty"
Keywords: TNG, Wesley, Academy
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 21:48:14 GMT

wombat@eng.umd.edu (Jose Gonzalez) writes:
>In article <1992Apr10.004136.9947@cco.caltech.edu> tlynch@cco.caltech.edu (Timothy W. Lynch) writes:

>>>Well, there was evidence to suggest that it was Josh's fault, 
>>
>>Whoa.  Back up.
>>
>>Just what evidence is that?  There's evidence that he chose to take part in 
>>the maneuver, but I recall no evidence that *his* screwup somehow caused the 
>>crash.  Nick asserted such, but he's hardly to be believed blindly.

>Okay, putting anything Nick said aside, Cito and Jean reluctantly agreed that
>Josh may have been scared and somehow messed up.  

And Nick pressured them into that statement rather vividly.

>And Wesley's "He wasn't
>ready.  We pushed him into it," suggests to me that, although Josh is not
>to blame for the accident, the maneuver may have been beyond his abilities
>and therefore performed incorrectly.  

That hardly means it was his *fault*.  The fact that he ended up taking part
in the thing is, in the end, his fault, but it doesn't mean the actual event
of the crash is.  (And I highly doubt any of that matters to Picard.)

>>>>I rather suspect Picard would have gone to Brand just after the hearing.
>>>>Even if he'd let Wes actually get away with it, he'd NEVER have spoken to 
>>>>him again.
>>
>>>Oh, really?  He may not have spoken to him for a while, but it's very
>>>difficult to stay mad at someone indefinately.  It's much easier to forgive,
>>>and eventually, he would forgive him.  
>>
>>Let me tell you a little story.
>>
>>You recall my mistake about the author of "Violations"?  He/she confessed to 
>>me once the game was up, but could very easily have continued to develop
>>bizarre scenarios about how he/she was set up or being lied about.  Had that
>>happened, the connection would have been cut.  Severed.  End of tale.
>>
>>Maybe that makes me unforgiving; but betrayal does not sit lightly with me.
>>Nor, I suspect, does it with Picard.

>Just how good a friend was he?  

I have two answers for this.  The first is "good enough that I'm probably 
getting a wedding invitation in the mail soon."

The second is that it's neither relevant to the discussion nor any of your
damned business, to be frank.  If you're going to start claiming that people
only sever all ties when it's "shallow" friendships, then we're not going to
remain civil long.

>And would you have severed all relations to
>your *son*, if he had done the same?  Remember, that is the relationship they
>have.

No...I remember that that's the relationship YOU claim they have.  Saying 
someone is *like* a son is far from saying "this is my son".  

Tim Lynch
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: kyle@uunet.uu.net (Kyle Jones)
Subject: Re: Lynch's Spoiler Review: "The First Duty"
Keywords: TNG, Wesley, Academy
Organization: UUNET Technologies, Inc
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 00:31:40 GMT

wombat@eng.umd.edu (Jose Gonzalez) writes:
 > Okay, putting anything Nick said aside, Cito and Jean reluctantly agreed that
 > Josh may have been scared and somehow messed up.  

tlynch@cco.caltech.edu (Timothy W. Lynch) writes:
 > And Nick pressured them into that statement rather vividly.

What pressure?  Wesley had already stuck his neck out.  If Cito
or Jean would have sided with him, that's half of the group.  The
alien (Cito?) looked like she was scared of everyone, so I can't
say much for her, but Jean at least looked like she had some
backbone.
From: v075q5fr@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Scott J Gorcey)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Locarno = Kirk (Spoilers "First Duty"))
Date: 7 Apr 92 23:03:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: acsu.1992Apr7.220416.13740
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Apr7.164745.19947@cco.caltech.edu>, thogek@seismo.gps.caltech.edu (Thomas Kiefer) writes...
>From <1992Apr5.221926.12208@acsu.buffalo.edu> v075q5fr@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Scott J Gorcey)
>>     BTW, anyone notice the time frame for the ^last^ attempted Culvort
>>     Starburst (spelling?) -- 100 years ago.  Kirk himself?...     
> 
>Neat idea, but didn't Picard, when citing this 100-years-ago attempt, also
>say that all five of the participants were killed?
> 
>                  +-----------------------------------+
>                  |   thogek@seismo.gps.caltech.edu   |
>                  +-----------------------------------+


     Yeah, he did, (as many have kindly informed me).  Too bad.  Would
     have been a neat connection to hint about...

          ^Hot Damn, That Pie Was Good!^
                     Common Phrases Heard at
                     RR Diner #32.

          ^Scott Gorcey, v075q5fr@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu^
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: palmerp@math.orst.edu (Paul A Palmer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Asimov lost
Date: 8 Apr 92 02:55:50 GMT
	<1992Apr7.034905.21079@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
Reply-To: palmerp@math.orst.edu
Distribution: usa
Organization: Dept. of Math, Oregon State University

In article <1992Apr7.034905.21079@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> cec35848@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Chuck Carroll) writes:

   sdh5@po.CWRU.Edu (Scott D. Hurley) writes:

   >Isaac Asimov died this morning , April 6, 1992 A.D.

   >WHo's left?

   Martin H. Greenberg is the only one of three still alive
   who were listed on the Sci-Fi Channel's Board of Directors.

May I ask, Who was the third?

--
Paul Palmer
Department of Mathematics     	E-mail: palmerp@math.orst.edu
Kidder Hall 368
Oregon State University, Corvallis, Oregon 97331-4605

	 "It's moving so fast, it's standing still." - William Gibson
From: "bernie wong" <bernie.wong@canrem.com>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: troi
Date: 16 Apr 92 23:56:38 EST
Reply-To: "bernie wong" <bernie.wong@canrem.com>
Distribution: rec
Organization: Canada Remote Systems

  >    Which is faster: The Enterprise-D or Battlestar Galactica?

That's a stupid question!  The Mellenium Falcon is faster! DUUUUUH!!!!
;-)
---
  OLX 2.1 TD  Inform yourself about the govt's Constitutional agenda!
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario/Detroit, MI
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current,rec.arts.startrek.misc
From: tlynch@cco.caltech.edu (Timothy W. Lynch)
Subject: Re: Kobyashi and Kirk
Followup-To: rec.arts.startrek.misc
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 17:51:21 GMT

Followups set to r.a.s.misc.

v075q5fr@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Scott J Gorcey) writes:

>     I always wondered if the simulations weren't given like 
>     regular tests and many times it's just  a normal simulation
>     to test only the cadet's ability to command during regular
>     operations.  Once during all those regular simulations they
>     would zing the no-win scenario at you.  

I've wondered the same thing, especially of late.  It makes a lot of sense,
I think, and it does explain a few things.

Tim Lynch
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: heather@hub.toronto.edu (Heather Hinton)
Subject: Boothby and Picard: TFD 
Summary: How come Boothby knew who Picard was?
Keywords: TFD
Date: 8 Apr 92 21:31:40 GMT

In `The Game', when Wes returns to the Enterprise, there is a
wonderfully heart-warming (read: stomach-churning) scene where Wes and
Picard discuss the academy.  Picard had told Wes to introduce himself to
Boothby on an earlier epsiode, and then in `The Game' asks how Boothby
is doing.  

Doesn't Wesley reply that Boothby didn't remember who Picard was?  If
so, how come Boothby suddenly is able to recognize Picard and list all
his accomplishments?  What gives?


-- 

Heather M Hinton 	(mail: heather @ hub.toronto.edu)
Dept of Electrical Engineering
10 King's College Road
University of Toronto
From: murphy@npri6.npri.com (David P. Murphy)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Odds of Ships colliding in space are...
Date: 8 Apr 92 13:36:48 GMT
Organization: NPRI, Alexandria VA


>>While we are talking about Poker and odds.....
>>
>>Isn't it highly improbable that two ships in as large an expanse as
>>space would COLLIDE with each other?
>>
>>kjun@typhoon.atmos.colostate.edu (Pat Fitzpatrick)

 >I would say they are similar to the odds of two ships at sea colliding
 >(Which does happen)
 >
 >snoopy@brchh529.BNR.CA (Antonio Tello)

nope.  odds against collisions in space are much greater,
simply because objects are moving in *three* dimensions.

ok
dpm
-- 
murphy@npri6.npri.com
602 Cameron St.
Alexandria, VA  22314                 The First Amendment:
(703) 683-9090                        it's not just a good idea, it's the law.
From: demillo@juliet.ll.mit.edu ( Robert DeMillo )
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Comment on Wesley's room (First Duty)
Date: 6 Apr 92 15:57:17 GMT
	<1992Apr6.150336.1734@osc.edu>
Organization: M.I.T. Lincoln Lab - Group 43

In article <1992Apr6.150336.1734@osc.edu> phil@stupid.cgrg.ohio-state.EDU (Phil Ritzenthaler) writes:

> In article <1992Apr6.074215.12501@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>, bn981@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ryan Mathews) writes:
> |> 
> |> The door had a doorknob, and it swung open.  Awfully low tech, dontcha
> |> think?
> |> 
> |> Either there's some point to this, or the average college dormitory in
> |> the 24th century is as old and unmodern as the ones today.  :-)

I thought this was great and made a lot of sense for exactly the 
reason the previous poster listed. Most of the dorms in older colleges
that I have been to are always about 100 years out of date...sometimes
more in the case of some of the 200+ year old ivy colleges. I thought
it was a great touch...




--
 - Rob DeMillo			| Internet: 	 demillo@juliet.ll.mit.edu
   MIT Lincoln Lab 		| Also Internet: rjd@brown.cs.edu
   Weather Sensing - Group 43	| Reality: 617-981-2105 (office)

"I say you *are* the Messiah, Lord! And I ought to know, I've followed a few!"
					- John Cleese, "Life Of Brian"
From: caladan!seanews!monorail@seattleu.edu (Brannon Boren)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Deep Space Nine: Lacarno? (teensy spoilers?)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 92 00:29:45 PDT
Organization: SEANEWS - Seattle Public Access News & Mail


[original poster's ID lost... Sorry]
>Perhaps.  Locarno obviously had a lot of potential.  You don't
>think he could learn from this latest experience and become a
>better officer?  If you threw people out every time they made bad
>decisions, there wouldn't be anyone left in Starfleet.
>
 
        Personally I'd like to see Lacarno turn up on
Deep Space Nine, possibly as a crewman on a merchant vessel
or something.  After all he *does* have the training (if
not the actual diploma) of a Star Fleet Officer.  As far
as a merchant vessel is concerned he's primo material.
        His slick talking ways are just a *benefit* in that
line of space services...
 
 
                                Monorail Green
                                  aka B-Man

please reply to: polari!eisley!monorail@uunet.uu.net
             or: caladan!seanews!monorail@seattleu.edu
             or: monorail@pismo.wa.com
--
There is no God but Mickey Mouse,  ||  "I have this thing for
Walt Disney was His prophet, and   ||  three inch tall blondes
Michael Eisner is the Anti-Disney. ||  with wings."  - Me