From: Bill.Carlson@p0.f18.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Bill Carlson)
Newsgroups: alt.messianic
Subject: Knowing Hashem
Date: 25 Jul 92 23:27:01 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/18.0 - Midrash, Denver CO


                 -=> Quoting Rob Strom Bill Carlson <=-
 RS> From: strom@watson.ibm.com (Rob Strom)
 RS> Message-ID: <1992Jul24.175620.11491@watson.ibm.com>
RS> Your editor mangled the article.
     Very strange how that happened.  Actually though, the message
     itself came across that way.  This format is way different than
     the Fido nets; but its nice that we are still able to link in.
KH> We (believers in Yeshua) are not interested in having "positive
KH> relations" with you, as an end in itself.  What we are interested
KH> in is having you come to know HaShem, and be saved from your sins.
KH> Everything else is secondary, and pales in importance to your
KH> eternal destiny.                         {Rob Strom then responds}:
RS> ...the views of evangelic Christians like Kenneth and Messianics.
     But see: the way that that is written we can not as Messianic
     Believers fully agree with.  Let's look and see:
KH> ...are not interested in having "positive relations" with you, as
KH> an end in itself.
     I'd say, why not?  Even if we never agree; "positive relations"
     are better than 'negative', nu?  Let's look a little closer...
          In the Brit HaChadashah we see that we are told to show love
     to all, even our enemies!  And seek to sown shalom with all men,
     etc....  The First Mitzvot, says our Rabbi: Sh'ma Israel, HaShem
     our G-d HaShem He is Echad, and thou shalt love HaShem thy G-d
     with all thy heart, soul and strength.   THIS is of primary
     "importance"; that the Nation of Israel {and all mankind} should
     love HaShem El*him with their whole being.  Next, is the Second
     Mitzvot that our Rabbi quoted from Torah: Love thy neighbor as
     thyself.  Let me illustrate the way that I'd phrase part of what
     is entailed in this commission with a modern Messianic homily:
          A couple of my friends and myself are walking down a road,
     and meet a man who says: At the end of this road, in a field to
     the right, you will find a heap of diamonds or pure quality, and
     they are being given away free, and a man is even providing the
     sacks for you to carry them off!  My friends and myself decide
     to take this man at his word, though his story seems very hard
     to believe indeed, and go see this for ourselves.  We come to the
     end of this road, and off to the right, in the middle of a field,
     we do indeed see a bright glimmering.  So..., we run to this
     field, and are each handed bags, and the man tells us: Fill up
     your bags, and take these diamonds for your own, they are given
     to you freely, and each person who comes here may have one bag of
     diamonds to keep.  As we are walking back down the road, we see
     another lone man in the distance, and one of my companions says: I
     don't think we should tell him about the field.  I respond to
     my friend: If it was not for the man who told us of the field,
     you'd not even have the ability to withold this blessing from
     another!  And my other friend, of us three, likewise responds to
     him: Who is more the blest, -we three who have these sacks; or the
     man who not only had his sack, but first met us on the road, and
     told us that we may obtain, what we now have, for ourselves?!  For
     there is more love in giving, than simply being left holding the
     bag :-)  Thus to remain silent to him; is the worse thing of all!
KD> But, if having "positive relations" will be a means to further this
KD> important end, then we're all for it.
     This sounds like his only reason for having a "positive relation"
     with you, is for an "end", and not also for the sake of having a
     "positive relation(s)" in and of itself.  In all fairness, this is
     "perhaps" not what Kenneth meant but I can see how you'd draw that
     conclusion. I'm for having a "positive relation", vs. a 'negative'
     one with all of mankind, im yertsay HaShem, even if that is all
     that ever comes of it.  Like the Mitzvot: one can keep the
     positive Mitzvot out of love; or else obey for fear of breaking
     the negative Mitzvot. - I'd submit the prior is more valuable!          
--  
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