HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tim@shovel.Prime.COM (Tim Cantin)
Subject: Re: Admin Burnout and the TMI Dilemma
Followup-To: rec.games.mud.admin
Keywords: burnout, the vision thing, dead weight, MudOS, other projects
Organization: Prime Computer R&D
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 13:47:54 GMT

In article <15b5nfINNqak@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>, <beeman@cats.ucsc.edu> writes:

> What should I do with this place?

Scrap it; it's only a game. You worry too much... that's going to kill you
someday. :)

Find a nice home for a tmi.tar.Z for everyone to get a copy of, and rm -rf it
from your system. Then go home, park your butt on the couch, pop a tall,
frosty one and say, "AAaaaaahhhhh!".

-Tim (aka Terminus Est in the LP world)

-- 
#include "stddisclaimer.h"
/* Tim Cantin          {uunet, csnet-relay}!primerd!tim || tim@s35.prime.com
   Prime Computer Inc. 10-21, 500 Old Conn. Path, Framingham, MA 01701 (USA) */
flames > /dev/null 2>&1
From: lwl@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Lydia Leong)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin
Subject: Re: Tinymush and AFS
Date: 22 Jul 92 13:43:35 GMT
Organization: Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

In article <3995@news.duke.edu> tbonewil@acpub.duke.edu writes:
>It seems that everytime I fix a problem with Tinymush 2.0 pl6, yet
>another one pops up. AFS is not the ideal environment to run a 
>mush under, but I don't have a choice.

Gaaah. I've been trying to help out some wizards running TinyMUSH
2.0 pl6 under AFS. I sympathize.

AFS isn't the ideal environment to run a disk-based MUD. In fact, at times,
even with a small database, huge cache, and very few players, it can be 
DEATHLY slow, due to the slugish speed of disk access.

If you find any bugs in TinyMUSH 2.0, send email to 
mushhacks@caisr2.caisr.cwru.edu, so they can get fixed. :)

>The mush saves its db fine for the first 24 hours that it is running.
>Then, it starts saving separate files like tinymush.db.new.#25#
>tinymush.db.new.#26#, tinymush.db.new.#27#, etc, instead of
>overwriting the tinymush.db.new file each time.

There's some kind of the problem with writing out the database, then.
Do those files have anything in them, or are they zero'ed out?
Check in your game log. I'll bet it's your "authentication ticket"
expiring (remember this discussion?)  For me it shows up as a long
series of "Permission denied"s in the log file.

The method described by Astinus in his earlier post here DOES NOT
WORK. It does apparently get MUSH 1.x databases to save, but not,
for some bizarre reason, 2.0.

The string database saves. The numeric does not. Unfortunately,
you need both.

If anyone else out there has a solution, I'd like to know it...
(but running something disk-based with AFS is a bad, bad idea)

Also: has anyone had any luck compiling TinyMUSH 2.0 under AIX?

-------------------------+----------------------------------------------------
Lydia Leong, CSE '94     | C code. C code run. Run code run... please!
lwl@eniac.seas.upenn.edu | Backup not found:  (A)bort  (R)etry  (P)anic
lwl@imsasun.imsa.edu     | "man reboot" (-n option): Avoids the sync(1). It
lwl@csa.bu.edu           | can be used if a disk or the processor is on fire.
-------------------------+----------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin
From: hawks@seq.uncwil.edu (part-time criminal)
Subject: mud
Summary: internet usage
Keywords: internet usage
Organization: Univ. of North Carolina @ Wilmington
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 17:19:23 GMT


Hi fellow mudders, 
  I wonder if anyone has any statistics on how much bandwidth actually playing
mud over the internet takes.  Does anyone have any comparison figures between
playing mud and actually downloading something using ftp?  How much do players
actually account for as traffic on the internet?  Is it substantial or nominal?
I am interested in hard figures if anybody has them.  Also anyone have any 
comparison figures on actual local system resources used while playing?  Are we
players using up valuable resources that could otherwise be better spent?  Are
we slowing the net down?  I keep getting harassed by anti-mudders and would like
to know if I am wrong to play?  Am I hurting someone else?  Or do they just want
to hurt me?  Please mail me any information you might have.  I can see potential
flames here, if I have said something bad please mail me ok?  Please do not
start a flame war I just need information to either help my case or for me to
see differently.  I see no harm in playing mud and would like information either
supporting me or information to help me see differently.

-- Dave (hawks@seq.uncwil.edu) 
Xref: sparky rec.games.mud.admin:187 rec.games.mud.misc:413 rec.games.mud.tiny:143
From: downsj@atlantis.CS.ORST.EDU (jason downs)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin,rec.games.mud.misc,rec.games.mud.tiny
Subject: Re: MUD and computer ethics
Date: 31 Jul 92 02:22:51 GMT
Organization: spherical domain of death and darkness

In article <1992Jul30.203319.7501@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>,
	dvandom@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (David VanDomelen) writes:
>Basically, you're being asked to wiretap without a warrant.  I 
>haven't heard of this going to court, it would make an interesting test case.  
>Exactly what rights do you forfiet when on someone's private system?

you have NO rights. none at all. any MUD can be compiled to log *everything*
that *everyone* types. there's no way to tell that a particular MUD is,
or is not, set up in this fashion, and it is ABSOLUTELY whithin the admins
right to do this.

-- 
\-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-/
 \           - jason downs -           /\        - downsj@cs.pdx.edu -       /
 / zeppelin/amiga release 2/insane guy \/ led/vasudeva/lord of fear of death \
/-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-\
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin
From: fortony@sonne.cso.uiuc.edu
Subject: Re: MUD and computer ethics
Originator: fortony@murphy
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 17:32:08 GMT

I took the liberty of changing the newsgroup line to something much more
reasonable.  Please heed it.

tmurray@socrates.umd.edu (Tony Murray) writes:

>This is a little silly (maybe a lot silly).

>I've seen folks liken a MUD to a phone system and it just
>ISN'T like one at all.  It is a VERY inaccurate analogy.
>Here's why (referring only to the US in this case):

>The phone system is a service that a company providings for a 
>fee and there are inherent (or implied) securities involved.  
>The phone companies also have certain legal guidelines
>they must follow.

In other words, a mud is not bound by legal guidelines because
it's not bound by legal guidelines.

Make no mistake, I'm all for muds being the sole private property
of their owners, but your argument is useless, and the question is
not as simple as you propose.

Let's say I'm a high-level systems administrator working for a
university (I'm not).  The university owns the machines, but I,
in my role of systems administrator, act in the university's
capacity as the owner and maintainer of the machines.

A user receives e-mail.  Do I have a right to read that e-mail?

A user sets a file 000 and names it 'DO_NOT_READ'.  Do I have
a right to go in with root and look at it?

There's more than just the physical machine going on here.  
*Information* can be owned, bought, sold, kept secret or made
public.  Some would say communications between two people with
a reasonable expectation of privacy constitute secret information.

>-- 
>--Tony Murray (tmurray@socrates.umd.edu)
>  Graphics Illustrator
>  University of Maryland University College

-- 
a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z
Felix Sebastian Ortony	fortony@murphy.gis.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin
From: fencer@acca.nmsu.edu (Fencer)
Subject: DB conversions?
Organization: New Mexico State University
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 21:52:03 GMT

How compatible are the different database formats for tinymuck, tinymud,
daemonmuck, etc?  Inparticular, I may need to go from daemonmuck
to tinymud or tinymuck format.  Any clues?

--
The fencer, and not of stolen goods...
From: tbonewil@acpub.duke.edu (Thomas M. Williams)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin
Subject: Tinymush 2.0->Pennmush 1.5
Date: 22 Jul 92 17:18:42 GMT
Organization: G.D.I.

Ok, I think I'm going to bite the bullet and switch over to Pennmush
1.5 from Tinymush 2.0, which sux under AFS.

As far as I know, I'll have to start from scratch, which is ok because
the db is not large yet.

Has anyone out there made the switch and can give any hints/info?
Is there anyway to convert the tinymush db?

Thanks,
Jason (Tinymush dies!)
-- 
|         Sleepwalker          | For a moment, I saw the vast plain of |
|                              | infinity spread out before me. At     |
| Caretaker of Dreamlands MUSH | first I thought it was a dream, but   |
|     128.109.113.15 6250      | it was real. I had ceased to exist.   |
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin,rec.games.mud.misc,rec.games.mud.tiny
From: jgm@ais.org (jim miller)
Subject: Re: MUD and computer ethics
Organization: Ann Arbor Information Society -- San Diego Annex
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 03:54:29 GMT


downsj@atlantis.CS.ORST.EDU (jason downs) writes:

>In article <1992Jul30.203319.7501@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>,
>	dvandom@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (David VanDomelen) writes:
>>Basically, you're being asked to wiretap without a warrant.  I 
>>haven't heard of this going to court, it would make an interesting test case.  
>>Exactly what rights do you forfiet when on someone's private system?
>
>you have NO rights. none at all. any MUD can be compiled to log *everything*
>that *everyone* types. there's no way to tell that a particular MUD is,
>or is not, set up in this fashion, and it is ABSOLUTELY whithin the admins
>right to do this.


It's not inconceivable that eventually, after people are injured in
various ways and test lawsuits are decided, that there will be a more
centralized authority on the Network, and, among other restrictions,
server administrators will be required to make disclosures about exactly
how a server _is_ set up.  Which is something they should be doing anyway.

-jim
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin,rec.games.mud.misc,rec.games.mud.tiny
From: mjr@hussar.dco.dec.com (Marcus J. Ranum)
Subject: Re: MUD and computer ethics
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation, Washington ULTRIX Resource Center
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 16:59:33 GMT

>One of the conditions your system admin gave you when you started your MUD was
>that you log and scan the commands for potentially illegal conversations.
>
>OK, now suppose you come across one.   Do you...

	If I agreed with the initial condition, I would comply with it.
	If I had not agreed with the initial condition I would not have
		run the MUD in the first place.

mjr.
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin,rec.games.mud.misc,rec.games.mud.tiny
From: anipa@cs.tut.fi (Niilo Neuvo)
Subject: Re: MUD and computer ethics
Organization: Tampere U of Technology, Finland
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 18:51:07 GMT

showard@nyx.cs.du.edu (Scott R Howard) writes:
> that you log and scan the commands for potentially illegal conversations.

What exactly is an illegal conversation? 

I always thought that free speech was a key word in most western
countries.

++Anipa
--
      NN   NN  NN   NN  NNNNNNNN
    NNNN    N  NN    N  NNNNNN
  NNNNNN  N    NN  N    NNNN
NNNNNNNN  NN   NN  NN   NN
-- 
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin
From: mmullett@nyx.cs.du.edu (Matthew Mullett)
Subject: Converting db's
Summary: PennMUSH 1.5 -> MUSH 2.0 ?
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Keywords: dbconvert
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 92 19:58:20 GMT


C-Code developers out there:
Is it possible to convert a PennMUSH 1.50 db to MUSH 2.0?  and if so
what would the command line look like for such a conversion?

			Thanx in Advance
Astinus, Digruntled 1.50 user
mmullett@nyx.cs.du.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin,rec.games.mud.misc,rec.games.mud.tiny
From: whale@leland.Stanford.EDU (Stephen Schmidt)
Subject: Re: MUD and computer ethics
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 92 05:36:50 GMT

In article <Bs8LxD.sv@ais.org> ssj@ais.org (Stephen S. Johnston) writes:
> To draw some kind of parallel (or attempt to), can a phone 
>company tap your phone because they own the system (used to own 
>the phones too)?  

I'm not sure this analogy is accurate. The limitations on phone companies
are there for two reasons 1) the phone company was a licensed monopolist
at the time the laws were written, and local phone companies still are,
and because of the government involvement they can be expected to meet
stricter standards, in contrast to MUDs which are privately operated,
and 2) The phone company is not a participant in the conversation, whereas
in the case of a MUD the waters are muddier.

You have the right to record any conversation of your own, phone lines
or otherwise. I think (not sure) you may be obligated to notify the
other participants that you are doing so. I would imagine, prima facie,
something like this would apply to MUDs... I don't think there are any
court cases.

If you were on a MUD and you overheard two people planning to commit a
crime I don't see why that would be any different than if you were in
a bar and heard them talking. It would come under the usual laws on
hearsay testimony which vary from state to state.

Also, there's often an international aspect to MUDs. Most countries
have more liberal laws than the United States as to what is permissible
on computer connections (as I understand it). This is off-thread, but
read The_Cuckoo's_Egg by Clifford Stohl to learn how difficult it is to
enforce anti-computer-crime laws over international boundaries.
-- 
Steve Schmidt			<><		   whale@leland.stanford.edu

"We have met the enemy and he is us" - Walt Kelly
Xref: sparky rec.games.mud.admin:196 rec.games.mud.misc:421 rec.games.mud.tiny:149
From: lwl@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Lydia Leong)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin,rec.games.mud.misc,rec.games.mud.tiny
Subject: Re: MUD and computer ethics
Date: 31 Jul 92 13:29:57 GMT
Followup-To: rec.games.mud.admin
Organization: Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

In article <Bs8LxD.sv@ais.org> ssj@ais.org (Stephen S. Johnston) writes:
>In article <1992Jul31.022251.14641@leela.cs.orst.edu> downsj@atlantis.CS.ORST.EDU (jason downs) writes:
>>you have NO rights. none at all. any MUD can be compiled to log *everything*
>>that *everyone* types. there's no way to tell that a particular MUD is,
>>or is not, set up in this fashion, and it is ABSOLUTELY whithin the admins
>>right to do this.

I believe that admins do have an ethical obligation to tell people if
all commands are being logged. But it is certainly within the admin's
rights to log whatever the heck he feels like. (I recall the disclaimer
on Random & Moira MUDs: You are not ever guaranteed privacy.)  

>So say some people.  To my knowledge, this has not been tested in 
>court.  To draw some kind of parallel (or attempt to), can a phone 
>company tap your phone because they own the system (used to own 
>the phones too)?

This isn't the greatest of analogies. Administrators of MUDs generally
log stuff because  1. They're looking for a bug. or 2. They think something
potentially threatening is happening (a tinyjerk is harassing a player
or spamming, for example).  I can assure you that it is NOT fun to wade
through a meg of logfile trying to find the one command that's causing
a memory leak. Plus, anyone who logs all commands and then attempts to
read that log for fun has to be a complete masochist; most logfiles are
chaotic.

/------------------------+--------------------------------------------------\
|  Lydia Leong, CSE '94  |  The moving cursor writes, and, having written,  |
|  lwl@seas.upenn.edu    |   blinks on. (from the fortune file)             |
|  lwl@csa.bu.edu        |  Henry Kissinger: There cannot be a crisis next  |
|  lwl@imsasun.imsa.edu  |   week. My schedule is already full.             |
|  lwl@elof.iit.edu      |  C'trel@PernMUSH: Hey, I'm perfect... bronze-    | 
|  Amberyl@many MUSHes   |   rider, cute, cuddly, easily manipulated... 8)  |
\------------------------+--------------------------------------------------/
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin,rec.games.mud.misc,rec.games.mud.tiny
From: tinsel@uiuc.edu (Thomas Aaron Insel)
Subject: Re: MUD and computer ethics
Originator: tai50080@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
Reply-To: tinsel@uiuc.edu
Organization: {not speaking for the} University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 19:26:51 GMT

michael@iastate.edu (Michael M. Huang) writes:

> you have NO rights. none at all.  any PHONE COMPANY can be setup to log
> *everything* that *everyone* says. there's no way to tell that a particular
> PHONE COMPANY is, or is not, set up in this fashion, and it is ABSOLUTELY....

You're not that far off.  Check out the fbi-proposed legislation to
cripple digital phone networks in order to make wiretaps easier.
-- 
Thomas Aaron Insel (tinsel@uiuc.edu)
  I speak for myself, and not for the State or University of Illinois.
  "We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty." -- Edward R. Murrow
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin
From: mmullett@nyx.cs.du.edu (Matthew Mullett)
Subject: Re: Tinymush and AFS
Summary:  AFS and Similar systems are here to stay...
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 20:19:24 GMT


I couldn't tell you why TinyMUSh 2.0 is unhappy with AFS, the only solution
short of reauthenticating with klog every 24 hrs. is to give system:anyuser
all privileges in the director...of course this gives every person who is
on AFS at any site permission to look at your directory...I've run 1.x
code under AFS, so it would seem to me to be a problem with 2.0 that should
probably be solved since network disks are beginning to become very popular.

Short of shutting down the mush every 24 hrs. login to the account and klog
to get a token for a new 24 hr period...wouldn't even have to shut down the 
MUSH from my  experience....

Astinus


Xref: sparky rec.games.mud.admin:186 rec.games.mud.misc:412 rec.games.mud.tiny:142
From: dvandom@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (David VanDomelen)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin,rec.games.mud.misc,rec.games.mud.tiny
Subject: Re: MUD and computer ethics
Date: 30 Jul 92 20:33:19 GMT
Organization: The Ohio State University

I believe what is meant by "illegal conversation" is one where an illegal 
activity is planned (J'Mgandr meets Tomalak in the Rihannsu High Council 
chambers and plots to meet RL and rob a bank, or more likely to rob something 
via computers), or that is illegal to say on the phone (watch out, 
FurryMUCKers).  Basically, you're being asked to wiretap without a warrant.  I 
haven't heard of this going to court, it would make an interesting test case.  
Exactly what rights do you forfiet when on someone's private system?
     Dave Van Domelen, free speech with purchase of any entree
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin,rec.games.mud.misc,rec.games.mud.tiny
From: michael@iastate.edu (Michael M. Huang)
Subject: Re: MUD and computer ethics
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 05:38:00 GMT

In <1992Jul31.022251.14641@leela.cs.orst.edu> downsj@atlantis.CS.ORST.EDU (jason downs) writes:

>you have NO rights. none at all. any MUD can be compiled to log *everything*
>that *everyone* types. there's no way to tell that a particular MUD is,
>or is not, set up in this fashion, and it is ABSOLUTELY whithin the admins
>right to do this.

you have NO rights. none at all.  any PHONE COMPANY can be setup to log
*everything* that *everyone* says. there's no way to tell that a particular
PHONE COMPANY is, or is not, set up in this fashion, and it is ABSOLUTELY....

Well, you get my drift.  In this tech society of ours today, privacy of
individuals are beginning to become an endangered species.  Like someone
said, this makes an interesting court precedent, if something like
this really happened.

-michael
 Vincent's Hollow

-- 
Michael Ming-Yang Huang	                                  michael@iastate.edu
Iowa State University                                       michaelhg@ids.net
Ames, Iowa, USA                                               mud@iastate.edu
From: tbonewil@acpub.duke.edu (Thomas M. Williams)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin
Subject: Tinymush and AFS
Date: 22 Jul 92 05:10:06 GMT
Organization: G.D.I.

It seems that everytime I fix a problem with Tinymush 2.0 pl6, yet
another one pops up. AFS is not the ideal environment to run a 
mush under, but I don't have a choice.

Here is the problem:

The mush saves its db fine for the first 24 hours that it is running.
Then, it starts saving separate files like tinymush.db.new.#25#
tinymush.db.new.#26#, tinymush.db.new.#27#, etc, instead of
overwriting the tinymush.db.new file each time.

My db is small now, so this is not a major problem now, but will be
in the future. Should I write a script to shutdown the mush every 24
hours? Is there a better way? Does AFS just suck?

many thanks
Jason
-- 
|         Sleepwalker          | For a moment, I saw the vast plain of |
|                              | infinity spread out before me. At     |
| Caretaker of Dreamlands MUSH | first I thought it was a dream, but   |
|     128.109.113.15 6250      | it was real. I had ceased to exist.   |
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin
From: fortony@sonne.cso.uiuc.edu
Subject: Re: FAQ on bugs
Originator: fortony@lucy
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 19:07:15 GMT

whale@leland.Stanford.EDU (Stephen Schmidt) writes:

>On a rec group the procedures for making a FAQ are much tighter than they
>are on an alt group, where anything posted that calls itself a FAQ is one...

This is true.  Jennifer Smith and myself spent quite a bit of time creating
the rec.games.mud (now rec.games.mud.announce) FAQ set.  You will notice
its surpassing beauty.

>The news group that you are supposed to crosspost draft FAQs to is called
>news.answers, and you can read through it to see some sample FAQs from 
>other newsgroups.

I heartily recommend that you enlist the help of net professionals in 
writing your FAQs.  Since I'm about to go off to Texas and experience
a blip in my internet access, I don't recommend anyone named "Felix."

>As far as bug reports go, I would recommend against including solutions for
>two reasons: 1) Since each MUD tweaks the player object and most other
>objects to their own happiness, you cannot guarantee that a solution that
>works on one MUD will work on any other; 2) Most dangerous bugs don't last
>for more than a couple months, which means that they'd only appear in one
>or two FAQ postings before becoming obsolete. I'd recommend instead posting
>bug fixes with the title "BUG FIX" or something equally descriptive, but
>not re-posting them every month unless they're requested. Maybe an archive
>of such posts could be kept.

The content of your post indicates that you're thinking in terms of, perhaps,
LP or Diku or something similar.  As such, you're off base a little.
rec.games.mud.admin is a newsgroup for common issues relating to 
administration of all types of muds, and a 'bug FAQ' could not possibly
cover all the appropriate bits.  TinyMUDs do not have a 'player object'
to 'tweak'.  Dangerous bugs in TinyMUDs last forever.  Etc.

I recommend that if you want to discuss problems with LPMud, you should
add to the rec.games.mud.lp FAQ and leave the rec.games.mud.admin FAQ to
common administrative issues.

>-- 
>Steve Schmidt			<><		   whale@leland.stanford.edu

>"We have met the enemy and he is us" - Walt Kelly
-- 
a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z
Felix Sebastian Ortony	fortony@murphy.gis.uiuc.edu