HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: alt.oobe
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 16:56:35 -0400 
From: Andy Kurtz <ak35+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: as a child...

While the name-wars wage on I'll relate something that happened to me as
a child.

This happened to me one evening when I was about seven or eight years
old.  Although the exact date, etc. eludes me, my memory of the event is
very vivid; so vivid, in fact, that I am compelled to recount it in the
present -- though, of course, some backtracking and interpretation
cannot be helped.  Here goes:

I wake up and immediately notice that I am turned around in my bed, my
head where my feet should be and slightly off the bed at the lower
left-hand corner.  I am lying on my stomach, my head is turned so that I
notice the light in the hallway -- to the left.  [This is very vivid --
I have no recollection of any part of my body except my head.]  I am now
looking at the green carpet in the living room. I notice that the
stove-light is on.  I now feel that something is wrong.  I feel pressure
on the back of my neck.  Although it is not painful, it is clearly not
pleasurable.  It seems to come from the inside of my neck.  I now
realize that I am floating.  Rather, I should say that now I have the
strong sensation of being suspended, albeit close to the floor, perhaps
three-feet tops.  If a seven-year old can feel angst, then at this
point, I do.  Somehow I shift to the living room.  ("Shift" is the only
word I can think of for what happened.  I did not "float"; nor did I
"appear".  I shifted.  There was some sense of movement, but quite sure
and fast.)  I see my mother holding the tv guide, watching tv.  Carson
is on.  I am now flying quickly back to my bedroom. (Again, "flying"
conveys how this felt.  It was more violent than "floating".)  I am now
back in bed in precisely the same position as before.  I feel "awake"
but not in the sense of having been asleep -- somehow it's different.  I
am also scared shitless, panicked, and am on the verge of screaming,
though I don't.   

The next morning, I told my mother what happened, down to having seen
her watching Carson.  I can't remember her reaction.  

That's it.  I suppose it could qualify as an oobe, though I also could
have been sleepwalking (except that I "awake" in the same position as
when my memory of this begins) or even dreaming. If it was a dream, it
has stayed with me for over twenty years -- it's one of the most vivid
memories that I have.  Nothing like this has happened since, though I do
occasionally dream of seeing my body lying on a couch.  These are,
however, very "dreamlike".  What happened when I was seven was something
different or something more.  'sall.

andy

Xref: sparky alt.oobe:18 alt.config:4879
From: ucsatsd@ucl.ac.uk (-8  Big Bad Bob (B3)  8-)
Newsgroups: alt.oobe,alt.config
Subject: Re: OOBE discussion group name
Date: 24 Jul 92 16:27:10 GMT
Organization: The HRC

In article <1992Jul22.165415.4302@gnosys.svle.ma.us> gst@gnosys.svle.ma.us (Gary S. Trujillo) writes:
>Since creating the alt.oobe newsgroup earlier today, I've received a
>couple of messages saying it would have been better to have discussed
>the name of the group in alt.config.

I too had not realised this was necessary. Obviously, this is regrettable.

>| And if you'd mentioned it in alt.config, we could have suggested a better
>| name instead of just ignoring your request of of hand.
>| 1/2 :-)
>And the second says:
>| alt.oobe is perhaps the worst possible name you could have chosen.
>| 	alt.dreams.oobe would at least have been an attempt at a proper
>| name.  alt.dreams.out-of-body would have been even better.

I disagree very strongly with the implicit suggestion in these messages that
alt.oobe should be a subsidiary to alt.dreams.  OOBEs are NOT dreams, and
although it is possible to induce OOBEs through dreams, it is also 
possible to do it with magnets, centrifuges, meditation, fasting, certain
drugs, so on  and  so forth. The results of OOBE experiments are not relevant
to alt.dream - more relevant to alt.paranormal, alt.sci.physics.new-theories,
and alt.sceptiks. The fact that interest in dreams and OOBEs coincide, it
would  seem, in a reasonableportion of alt.dreams, does not mean the two 
should be linked together, any more than rec.games.frp, alt.magick, and
alt.fan.iron-maiden (if it exists!) should be linked 8-)

>However, I wonder just *how much* more descriptive "alt.out-of-body" is than
>"alt.oobe."  There may be people who have heard the term "out of body exper-
>ience" who have not come across the acronym "OOBE," but I suspect they are
>fewer in number than those who have heard of neither one.  Yes, perhaps the
>term "out-of-body" is more intriguing than "oobe" to someone who knows of
>neither.

Mmmm. I'd feel that nearly everyone who would understand that alt.out-of-
body was about 'projection' would get alt.oobe, but I agree that browsers
would  be more likely to look at .out-of-body  . Either is fine by me, 
but alt.oobe IS less cumbersome...

Tim.

--
                                  |   "Everything is true, even false things."
        *****     B3     *****    | "Even false things? How can that be??"
                                  |   "Dont ask me man, I didn't do it!"
    | ucsatsd@ucl.ac.uk // perhaps via nsf.ac.uk if you get desperate..... |  
Newsgroups: alt.oobe
From: J9KW000 <J9KW@UNB.CA>
Subject: astral travelling?
Organization: University of New Brunswick
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 13:49:35 GMT

Hi
  I realize that the name war is still going, I think that
oobe is made and should remain (just my opinion), but I
have a question not related to it.
  I have had experience in astral travelling and I would
like to know how obe's compare to this. I know the
term obe but do obe's always lead to astral travelling?
I would also like to hear anyone's experiences with astral
travelling that they would like to share.
  I hope that we can get down to putting this group to the
use it was created for soon and forget about arguing about
the name.
         Tracy
Newsgroups: alt.oobe
Subject: Re: astral travelling?
From: jtulli@eagle.wesleyan.edu
Date: 29 Jul 92 14:01:21 EDT
Organization: Wesleyan University

In article <29JUL92.10612670.0066@UNBVM1.CSD.UNB.CA>, J9KW000 <J9KW@UNB.CA> 
writes:
> Hi
>   I realize that the name war is still going, I think that
> oobe is made and should remain (just my opinion), but I
> have a question not related to it.
>   I have had experience in astral travelling and I would
> like to know how obe's compare to this. I know the
> term obe but do obe's always lead to astral travelling?

what would you say is the difference between the two?  (are you using the term
obe to refer to a separation in which one remains on in the earth sphere and
astral travelling to refer to journeys to nonphysical realms?  i have always
used the terms synonymously (though perhaps wrongly so (?))).

> I would also like to hear anyone's experiences with astral
> travelling that they would like to share.
>   I hope that we can get down to putting this group to the
> use it was created for soon and forget about arguing about
> the name.

i agree, but unfortunately i think many people who are interested aren't
getting alt.oobe because of the name controversy.  there's some discussion
going on in alt.dreams for now if you get that group.
>          Tracy
 
Jude
Xref: sparky alt.oobe:22 alt.dreams:2697
Newsgroups: alt.oobe,alt.dreams
Subject: a real issue
From: jtulli@eagle.wesleyan.edu
Date: 24 Jul 92 22:56:11 EDT
Organization: Wesleyan University

I would like to bring up the issue of the difference between an obe and a dream
of an obe.  i've found that many times i think i am out but when i try to visit
someone by thinking of them, it doesn't work.  or i try to put my hand through
a wall and it doesn't work.  i am conscious during these experiences but they
are not anything like the one obe i know was real.  also, when i encounter
people in such experiences i am surprised when they can see me; i expected that
they were in their physical bodies and i would be invisible to them.  maybe
sometime i'll type one of my journal entries to one of these experiences.  i'd
like to know if others have had similar dreams, and what people think is the
deciding factor between a dream of an obe and an actual obe.

Jude
Xref: sparky alt.oobe:25 alt.dreams:2712
Newsgroups: alt.oobe,alt.dreams
Subject: Re: methods for inducing an obe
From: jtulli@eagle.wesleyan.edu
Date: 27 Jul 92 15:58:07 EDT
Organization: Wesleyan University

o'er the weekend i though of another method, which gets the vibrations going
pretty strong, i think.
if you relax your body as much as you possibly can (naturally) and turn your
eyes inward toward the third eye, and hold them there as long as possible...it
hurts rather a bit but if you can build up to being able to hold it for circa 
eight minutes i've read you'll be off, provided that the rest of your body 
remains relaxed (there's the rub).  also, i've noticed that if i stop to rest 
a bit and continue half a minute or so later, i haven't lost any ground.
happy obeing,

Jude  
Newsgroups: alt.paranormal
From: bbs.techie@tsoft.sf-bay.org (Robert Mc Daniel)
Subject: Re: OBE tests that prove it DOESNT occur
Organization: The TSoft BBS and Public Access Unix, +1 415 969 8238
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 11:00:15 GMT

> 	So how do you explain all of the instances in which people have 
> seen things they could not possibly have known about without being there?
> Just a thought ;)


They lied, hyperbole, the persons invonlev were mistaken, etc. 
It doesn't count unless it's under controlled conditions. So far, I 
haven't heard of ANYONE who's managed to give consistant, positive 
results on such a test.


--
Robert Mc Daniel (bbs.techie@tsoft.sf-bay.org)
Newsgroups: alt.paranormal
From: harris@drvax3.msfc.nasa.gov (Mitch Harris)
Subject: Angels
Organization: NASA/MSFC
Date: 27 Jul 92 05:06:00 GMT

I tried to post this once before, without any apparent luck. If it shows
up as a repeat, sorry!
What I was wondering was this: has anyone read "A Book of Angels"? If
so, do you believe in them? And lastly, has anyone had contact with what
they might consider to be an angel?

               (posted for Beverly H.)

--
Mitch Harris                           |  New Technology Inc.
(205)-544-2846                         |  700 Boulevard South, #401
drvax3!harris@freedom.msfc.nasa.gov    |  Huntsville, AL  35802
From: Roy.Phillips@dustbin.omahug.org (Roy Phillips)
Newsgroups: alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: OBE tests that prove
Date: 23 Jul 92 03:22:00 CST
Reply-To: roy.phillips@dustbin.omahug.org
Organization: Atomic Dustbin, Bellevue, NE
Followup-To: alt.paranormal

JM->Ahem.  This does NOT prove that OBE's don't occur.  It DOES prove
JM->that the "Amazing Randi" has never been able to demonstrate one.
JM->There is a huge difference!  If I have never seen something, this in
JM->NO WAY proves that the "something" doesn't exist!

I have to concur with that particular statement.  Also could prove that
the 'investigator' wanted to disprove it.  It's something I haven't
tried.  I'd personally prefer to travel to someone's house, or another
room, or even better...BATMAN RETURNS!!

 ~ OLX 2.1 TD ~ Proofread carefully to see if you any words out.


Newsgroups: alt.paranormal
From: gst@spdcc.com (Gary S. Trujillo)
Subject: Lucidity Institute / OBE newsgroup
Summary: Lucidity Institute accessible via email
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 08:34:19 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.194907.22181@engage.pko.dec.com>
	stanley@verga.enet.dec.com (Mary Stanley) writes:

> >>Seriously, I have found no information about how to induce and OBE
> >>on demand.  
> 
> Bob Monroe at the Monroe Institute can teach you how.  He uses tapes
> that induce self-hypnosis.

Robert Monroe's "Lucidity Institute" can be reached via email, c/o
Jennifer Dole (clint@matia.stanford.edu).  Their snail-mail address is:

	The Lucidity Institute
	Box 2364
	Stanford, CA 94309

Their newsletter, _NightLight_ contains articles about OBEs (v3n2, Spring 
1991 & v3n3, Summer 1991).  Jennifer sent copies of both of these issues
to me without charge.

Also, I'd like to alert readers of this newsgroup that discussion is now
underway on the creation of a new newsgroup on OBEs.  I created an "alt.oobe"
newsgroup last week, before I realized that it would have been better to have
conducted a discussion first.  (There had been a discussion in alt.dreams in
favor of creating a newsgroup, but I kinda jumped the gun.)  I'm hoping we
can have a few days worth of discussion in alt.oobe and/or alt.config, and
have an informal vote soon (I had suggested the first week of August).  Please
check out the discussion in those newsgroups, and remember to cross-post your
replies to both groups.

Thanks.
-- 
    Gary S. Trujillo                             gst@gnosys.svle.ma.us
Somerville, Massachusetts               {wjh12,bu.edu,spdcc,ima,cdp}!gnosys!gst
Newsgroups: alt.paranormal,alt.dreams,alt.oobe
From: gst@spdcc.com (Gary S. Trujillo)
Subject: Re: OBE tests that prove it DOESNT occur
Reply-To: gst@gnosys.svle.ma.us (Gary S. Trujillo)
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 07:49:56 GMT

In article <BroDp6.5oq@acsu.buffalo.edu> ztsindi@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu
	(The Independents - SUNY Buffalo) writes:

> 	A very simple test that HAS been done (by the 'Amazing Randi')
> to see if OBE's happen was this: A six digit number is written on a
> card and placed in another room. The person who says they have or can
> induce OBEs does not know what this number is...

[ part claiming no one has ever succeeded in proving OOBEs with
  such an experiment deleted ]

I once heard Dr. Charles Tart (psychology professor at University of
California at Davis) describe the experiment to a large audience at
the Berkeley campus.  He got quite a roar of laughter from the crowd
when he described the experimental setup and talked about the shelf on
which the clock was sitting as being such as to render the clock non-
visible by anyone standing in the room, but one would have no trouble
reading the clock on it if s/he happened to be floating near the
ceiling.  :-)

Newsgroups: alt.dreams
From: gen5006@husky1.stmarys.ca
Subject: OBE (number test)
Organization: St. Mary's University, Halifax, N.S., Canada
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 20:35:55 GMT

Taken from "Mind Beyond the Body" (c) 1978:

"... Tart (1968) conducted a series of experiments with a 'Miss Z' who
claimed to have the ability to induce OBEs in herself during sleep.  One
night, while her brain and other physiological measures were being
recorded by polygraph, she was able during an OBE to correctly identify
a five-digit number placed on a shelf above her bed.  The possibility of
such a correct identification occuring by chance is one in 100,000, and the
polygraph would have revealed it had she gotten up during the night to
take a peek."

	Now whether this proves if something leaves the body, or not, is
questionable.  However, it does show that OBEs should not be lightly
dismissed.

Bill.

-- 
    Gary S. Trujillo                             gst@gnosys.svle.ma.us
Somerville, Massachusetts               {wjh12,bu.edu,spdcc,ima,cdp}!gnosys!gst
Newsgroups: alt.paranormal
From: adwright@iastate.edu ()
Subject: Re: OBE tests that prove it DOESNT occur
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 17:40:27 GMT

In <5qD0NB2w165w@tsoft.sf-bay.org> bbs.techie@tsoft.sf-bay.org (Robert Mc Daniel) writes:

>> 	So how do you explain all of the instances in which people have 
>> seen things they could not possibly have known about without being there?
>> Just a thought ;)


>They lied, hyperbole, the persons invonlev were mistaken, etc. 
>It doesn't count unless it's under controlled conditions. So far, I 
>haven't heard of ANYONE who's managed to give consistant, positive 
>results on such a test.

Hey, how about some postings from folks who have had OBEs? This would not
prove that OBE exist butit would be intersting to compare similarities
and differences. In any case it would be enjoyable reading :)

Newsgroups: alt.paranormal
From: tnishi@kansas.Berkeley.EDU (NISHIYAMA Tetsuto)
Subject: ALMOST(?) an OBE????
Reply-To: tnishi@lsa.ncl.omron.co.jp
Organization: Omron Computer Systems R&D Labs 
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 08:44:06 GMT

	Just an experience I thought I might share...

	When I was in elementary school ( I think about 5th grade )
I remember having an experience that MAY qualify for an OBE-type
experience...
	I was in bed trying to get to sleep but I was having trouble
doing so...I was looking straight up at the ceiling, when all of a
sudden the ceiling seemed to come "wobble"...the ceiling looked 
like it was coming closer, but then fade back...to me it felt like
I was floating a bit...this went on for a few seconds, but since
it scared me at the time, I sat up and the feeling went away...

	could this possibly be an OBE-type experience or was it
the beginning of a dream?  the thing that caught my attention at
the time was how real it seemed...it seemed more like my body was
"wobbling" than the ceiling falling.
=========================================================================
Teddy Nishiyama  (tnishi@lsa.ncl.omron.co.jp)  OMRON Corporation  (^_~;
R&D Support Dept(LSA), Shimokaiinji, Nagaokakyo-shi, Kyoto-fu 617  JAPAN
From: fofp@castle.ed.ac.uk (M Holmes)
Newsgroups: alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: OBE (?)
Date: 29 Jul 92 14:04:48 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

tordm@vana (Tord Malmgren) writes:


> last weekend I got a bit much to drink, and when I went to bed it was
>alright, but when I closed my eyes I felt like I was tilting, like I
>was on a ship on the ocean, but when I open my eyes I'm all still.. is
>this an OBE or not??

No, this is called "being drunk". It is a preliminary stage to more
interesting things. If you drink a little more and then lie down and
close your eyes, you'll feel that you are whizzing round and round. If
you open your eyes and stare at a fixture on a wall, it will appear to
move. This is known as an "out-of-your-mind" experience. Close your eyes
again and you'll feel the whizzing round and round speed up until the
contents of your stomach have an "out of the body experience" :-)

Don't drink any more at this point or you'll be dead. Even if you don't,
when you wake up in the morning, it'll hurt so much you'd prefer to be
dead :-)

FoFP
From: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath)
Newsgroups: alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: OBE tests that prove it DOESNT occur
Date: 24 Jul 92 21:09:12 GMT
Reply-To: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept of Computer Science

In article <5507@umriscc.isc.umr.edu>, mchalmer@mcs213a.cs.umr.edu (Matthew Chalmers) writes in part:
|> Darn. I kinda figured that somebody out there in alt.paranormal land
|> would either have had experienced an OBE or know someone who has or
|> had heard of someone who has, etc., and could tell me either how he/she
|> did it or how he/she heard it was done. It would seem pointless for all
|> the readers of this group to discuss OBEs in so much detail if NOBODY
|> reading/posting believes that they can occur. 

There is a huge difference between
   1. knowing that some people have OBEs.
   2. having an OBE yourself.
   3. being able tell you how to do it.

I, for one, believe they occur.  However, I, for one, haven't had one.
And I don't think anyone can "tell you" how to have one.

|> >(Suppose you posted the request: please tell me how to have a dream.
|> >How would anyone tell you how to have a dream if you couldn't do
|> >so already?)
|> 
|> And suppose I posted: How does one eat a bowl of cereal? If I have never
|> done it before, I'm QUITE SURE that I could follow one's instructions
|> on how to do it. *smirk*
I see that you do not take this issue seriously.  Thank you very much
for wasting my time with your smirking.

-- 
  Robert E. McGrath
  Urbana Illinois
  mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: alt.paranormal
From: gst@spdcc.com (Gary S. Trujillo)
Subject: Re: Lucidity Institute / OBE newsgroup
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 09:45:26 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.083419.13483@spdcc.com> gst@spdcc.com I wrote:

> Robert Monroe's "Lucidity Institute" can be reached via email, c/o
> Jennifer Dole (clint@matia.stanford.edu)...

Oops.  I confused Bob Monroe's "Monroe Institute" with Stephen LaBerge's
"Lucidity Institute."  Sorry about that.  The Lucidity Institute is
primarily devoted to exploring and helping people experience lucid
dreams, which are quite different than out-of-body experiences.  However,
you might still find the articles in their newsletter on the OBE subject
interesting:

> Their newsletter, _NightLight_ contains articles about OBEs (v3n2, Spring 
> 1991 & v3n3, Summer 1991)...

-- 
    Gary S. Trujillo                             gst@gnosys.svle.ma.us
Somerville, Massachusetts               {wjh12,bu.edu,spdcc,ima,cdp}!gnosys!gst
Newsgroups: alt.paranormal
From: gen5006@husky1.stmarys.ca
Subject: OBE (number test)
Organization: St. Mary's University, Halifax, N.S., Canada
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 20:39:34 GMT


Taken from "Mind Beyond the Body" (c) 1978:

"... Tart (1968) conducted a series of experiments with a 'Miss Z' who
claimed to have the ability to induce OBEs in herself during sleep.  One
night, while her brain and other physiological measures were being
recorded by polygraph, she was able during an OBE to correctly identify
a five-digit number placed on a shelf above her bed.  The possibility of
such a correct identification occuring by chance is one in 100,000, and the
polygraph would have revealed it had she gotten up during the night to 
take a peek."

	Now whether this proves if something leaves the body, or not, is
questionable.  However, it does show that OBEs should not be lightly 
dismissed.

Bill.
Newsgroups: alt.paranormal
From: kring@efes.physik.uni-kl.de (Thomas Kettenring)
Subject: Re: OBE tests that prove it DOESNT occur
Keywords: n
Organization: FB Physik, Universitaet Kaiserslautern, Germany
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 12:49:49 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.002802.2341@nntp.uoregon.edu>, johnm@cajal.uoregon.edu (John Martin) writes:
>Ahem.  This does NOT prove that OBE's don't occur.  It DOES prove that
>the "Amazing Randi" has never been able to demonstrate one.  There is a
>huge difference!  If I have never seen something, this in NO WAY proves
>that the "something" doesn't exist!

It is not necessary to prove OOBEs doesn't exist, or better, it's *impossible*
to prove they don't exist.  You can try and watch all the people of the world
in their sleep and awake, using complicated mechanisms, and if nobody has an
OOBE, you still didn't disprove them.  It's impossible, they are not
falsifiable.  Skeptics are well aware of that, and you don't have to repeat it.

So the burden of proof is on the other side.  (You don't go around and try to
prove that Santa Claus, unicorns, werewolves, and fire-breathing chickens
don't exist.  If anybody claims their existence, let him prove it.)

-- 
--------------thomas kettenring, 2 dan, kaiserslautern, germany---------------
Do you ask a Napoleon why it has to be Moscow, of all places?  Do you ask a
Mondrian why one has to paint only in the rectangularly framed primary colours
Red, Blue, and Yellow?  Ah, how all questions are ruined in view of a persuas-
ively recited system of madness! And is there a mortar keeping those systems
together firmer than real or supposed enemies?  -  Robert Gernhardt

Newsgroups: alt.paranormal,sci.skeptic