From: homebrew@lupulus.ssc.gov
Subject: HOMEBREW Digest #980
Organization: The Internet
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 08:04:46 GMT


HOMEBREW Digest #980		             Wed 30 September 1992


	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Steam beer (Jake Zaagman)
  Steam beer (Jake Zaagman)
  South African Guinness (DBIRCH)
  re: SECONDARY & AIRLOCK (Michael Galloway)
  Organic chemistry of Beer (HULTINP)
  cooler tuns (dave ballard)
  Advice on a Tasting Method (HULTINP)
  all-grain (John_D._Sullivan.wbst311)
  alts--commercial comparisons and recipe ideas (Tony Babinec)
  Dormant yeast? (Gerald Andrew Winters)
  Moron Labels (Don Veino - Sun USOPS WSU New Products Introduction)
  Re: Beer Drinkers of America (Richard Stueven)
  Re: cider question (yeast) (Garrett Hildebrand)
  Yeast washing questions (Carl West)
  label adhesive (Sean J. Caron)
  label adhesive II (Sean J. Caron)
  Oxidation/Racking to 2ndary/McAndrew's/AllAboutBeer/Airlocks (korz)
  yeast/hangovers/McAndrews/airlocks (Brian Bliss)
  Federal Regulations (cush)
  headaches, yeast, and a possible solution (Richard Childers)
  Sneezing in my beer (Arthur Delano)
  hops (Mark Garti  mrgarti@xyplex.com)
  Announcing the mead-lovers digest (John Dilley)
  Nat'l Comp. Mead Judging (James Spence)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 18:52:00 EDT
From: Jake.Zaagman@f20.n3603.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jake Zaagman)
Subject: Steam beer


 Hello, I am a new reader to the HBD, and find it very informative. I
 would like some info on making steam beers.

 I know basically that Steam beer is a lager, fermented with lager
 yeast, at ale temps. From what I read, using yeasts not at the optimum
 temps can creat off-flavors, and act un-favorable. I can ferment ales
 here in my house at 70f. So,

 1 - Is there a normal ferment temp for steam beer?
 2 - Or is there something that just covers up the off flavors?

 Thanks, Jake Zaagman (jake.zaagman@f20.n3603.z1.fidonet.org)
- ---
 * SPEED 1.10 [NR] *
- --
Internet: Jake.Zaagman@f20.n3603.z1.FIDONET.ORG
UUCP: ...!myrddin!tct!psycho!20!Jake.Zaagman
Note:psycho is a free gateway between Usenet & Fidonet. For info write to
     root@psycho.fidonet.org.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 18:52:00 EDT
From: Jake.Zaagman@f20.n3603.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jake Zaagman)
Subject: Steam beer


 Hello, I am a new reader to the HBD, and find it very informative. I
 would like some info on making steam beers.

 I know basically that Steam beer is a lager, fermented with lager
 yeast, at ale temps. From what I read, using yeasts not at the optimum
 temps can creat off-flavors, and act un-favorable. I can ferment ales
 here in my house at 70f. So,

 1 - Is there a normal ferment temp for steam beer?
 2 - Or is there something that just covers up the off flavors?

 Thanks, Jake Zaagman (jake.zaagman@f20.n3603.z1.fidonet.org)
- ---
 * SPEED 1.10 [NR] *
- --
Internet: Jake.Zaagman@f20.n3603.z1.FIDONET.ORG
UUCP: ...!myrddin!tct!psycho!20!Jake.Zaagman
Note:psycho is a free gateway between Usenet & Fidonet. For info write to
     root@psycho.fidonet.org.

------------------------------

Date:     29 Sep 92 10:47:51 SAST
From: DBIRCH@eleceng.uct.ac.za
Subject:  South African Guinness

So I find out from someone in America that they are brewing Guinness
here. Guiness has been brewed in Namibia for some time now (Alchohol
7.5% vol.) People here tend to find this style of beer too heavy as
we are used to lager type beers:
Lion lager, Castle lager, Ohlssons lager, Amstel lager, Hansa
pilsener etc. (Most beers are brewed by the same company: S.A.
Breweries)

Dave Birch
Cape Town



David Birch
UCT
- ---------------------------------------------------------
Where do people get all those witty quotes they
use in their signature files?
- ---------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 08:00:05 -0400
From: mgx@solid.ssd.ornl.gov (Michael Galloway)
Subject: re: SECONDARY & AIRLOCK


John, I tried to send directly to you but the mail bounced.  Here is one
simple solution.  In HBD 979 you asked:

>  After transferring to the secondary, I put the carboy in the fridge,
>  and noticed that the fermentation lock was working in reverse for a short
>  time, due to the temporary fact that the air trapped in the fermenter
>  was warmer than the air in the fridge, and was contracting as it cooled.
>  Is there a way to prevent the water from dribbling back in, other than
>  temporarily using a blow-off tube for a few hours while the air cools?

Why not fill the fermentation lock with cheap, high proof voodka?  It will
not freeze in your fridge, and if some of it gets sucked back into the
secondary, no big deal.

Michael D. Galloway	mgx@solid.ssd.ornl.gov
			v-(615)574-5785
			f-(615)574-4143
			Living in the WasteLand (of Beer, that is)

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 29 Sep 1992 08:22 EDT
From: HULTINP@QUCDN.QueensU.CA
Subject: Organic chemistry of Beer

A lot of talk lately about ketones etc etc.  What are ketones?  I am not
sure that the chemical structure would be much use, but recall that the
fermentation process produces a range of alcohols (hopefully mostly ethanol
but some having longer carbon chains as well).  In addition to this
process, yeast contain various other enzymic systems, several of which can
oxidize alcohols to compounds known as ketones and aldehydes.  These
are more or less toxic, and can result (just as can the higher alcohols)
in headaches and hangovers etc etc.
What to do about this?  Use clean yeasts, keep fermentations cool (not cold,
I just mean, not at summertime high temps either), and IMHO use a blow-by
system in your primary fermenter to remove the crud.  Most of this unwanted
junk is less dense than water, and much of it is only somewhat soluble, so
it tends to rise to the top amidst the froth, and can be blown over and
out of your beer.
BTW, even if you are carefully sealed up, and are sure that your beer is
not "oxidized", you will still get some amount of oxidation processes
going on.  But this is minimal, and should not be harmfull.  Relax....

Finally, Thanks to Richard Childers in HBD #978.  That makes two of us
as publicly confessed chemists.

                                     Phil Hultin

------------------------------

Date: 29 Sep 1992   8:38 EDT
From: dab@blitzen.cc.bellcore.com (dave ballard)
Subject: cooler tuns


hey now-  i'm finally getting around to building a cooler tun with
copper tubing on the bottom.  before i do this though, i'd like
to hear the argument for putting the holes on the bottom of the tubing
(facing the bottom of the cooler) vs. having the holes on top (facing
the bottom of the grain bed).  enlighten me...

thanks

dab

================================================================
dave ballard
dab@cc.bellcore.com



------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 29 Sep 1992 08:59 EDT
From: HULTINP@QUCDN.QueensU.CA
Subject: Advice on a Tasting Method

Ok, first off, so I can't read email addresses before my first coffee.
Thanks go to Dominic Ryan the chemist.:-)

In early November, I will be giving a class on "beer appreciation", in which
I will be trying to highlight both what it is that makes a beer taste the
way it does, and also , how our modern taste differs from those of the past.
To do this, I am modifying a class I attended in Madison WI about 4 years ago,
in which we took a totally beige commercial beer, and added to it hop teas,
malt teas, salt, sugar etc etc, to see what happened to the taste as various
flavours were added or augmented.
I will be using as my base a version of a 16th century unhopped ale, brewed
from Sir Kenelme Digby's "Closet...".  The question for you all to opine on
is:  What is the best way to prepare extracts of various malts and grains
so that addition of a small amount of the extract to a beer will more or less
accurately reflect the flavour of that grain in an actual brew?

Reply by email or by posting as you wish.  Thanks.  Phil Hultin.

------------------------------

Date: 	Tue, 29 Sep 1992 06:46:44 PDT
From: John_D._Sullivan.wbst311@xerox.com
Subject: all-grain

All Grain Brewing

     I am a 2 year extract and adjunct brewer. I decided to try an all grain
brew last Saturday because I can't seem to get the real malty flavor and nose
with liquid or dry extract that Sam Adam's and many good beers have. Maybe I'm
on the wrong track and need some kind of dry malting?

    Anyway, I've got a couple of questions as I've never seen all-grain done (I
relied on HBD and Charlie P.). My goal was to make a 3 gallon batch of Amazeing
Pale Ale
with 4 lb.pre-crushed 2-row Pale, .5 lb. crystal, .5 lb. cornstarch, gypsum and
Irish moss.

 	I built the 2 bucket lauter tun and in the section on using one Charlie says
to
 start out with water in it and add the mash, and while sparging always leave
the water level above grain bed(unless I misunderstood something). But in the
recipe that water isn't figured into the formula. So I skipped the extra water
in the bucket. Also when I keep hearing about recirculating the sparge, I
assume you mean to take the runoff out of the bottom  bucket and run it back
over the grain bed. I tried this 3 times but it was about the consistency of
runny oatmeal and I kept getting a stuck sparge. I had to stir it gently to
allow runoff but that was making the runoff very cloudy. I ended up running it
thru  over and over while cleaning up the bucket each time till it was clear. I
did end up with a very good extraction rate.

     After the boil I ran the wort thru my chiller,  (hot wort running thru
copper coils that are immersed in ice water, syphoned directly into carboy), I
racked off cold break, and pitched Telford's dry yeast (sorry, liquiders, my
taste buds and I have drawn our own conclusions) . 2 hours later I went down to
check on it and it had 2 inches of krausen and bubbling madly! By last
night(Monday)it had slowed to a crawl and hydrometer read 1.008. Tasted
excellent. 650F fermentation temp, BTW.

    Now to my questions(sorry about the long-windedness):

1) did I sparge right?or do you just let it sit there while it slooowly drips
thru? or maybe the grain was crushed too finely?The top of the bag had lots of
chunks of husk, the bottom pretty floury.
2) does all-grain normally start and finish so quickly? It tasted very clean.
maybe  the  cornstarch kicked it into high gear?
3) is $1.69/lb or $6.95/ 5 lb way too much for grains? the whole and
pre-crushed grains were the same price. I don't have a mill yet (maybe soon
Jack). I didn't seem to save any money.
4) do I ask too many questions? I'm hoping the tolerance level has gone up some
lately.
Thanks alot for your patience and any replies.

John

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 9:57:36 CDT
From: tony@spss.com (Tony Babinec)
Subject: alts--commercial comparisons and recipe ideas

My beer and brewing friends who have visited Dusseldorf came back
raving about the alt beers.  Unfortunately, it is difficult to
suggest an appropriate commercial comparison, and in my humble
opinion, this is one of the less well-understood styles in the
homebrewing and beer-judging community.

In its loose form, an "alt" is a German beer brewed in the "old"
style, namely, top-fermented.  Alt beers can be found in different
parts of Germany, but it is the Dusseldorfer alts that are most
distinguished.  To the best of my knowledge, none are available in
the U.S.

Pinkus Alt is a good and interesting beer in its own right, but it
does not typify the Dusseldorf alt style.  Pinkus Alt uses a grain
bill of 60% barley malt and 40% wheat malt, and also employs a
lactic fermentation to give the beer a tart edge.  Interestingly,
Pinkus Weizen uses the reverse proportion of grains, namely 60%
wheat malt and 40% barley malt, and is a good Bavarian Weizen style
beer.  By all means, taste them both side-by-side.

The Chicago Beer Society holds two blind beer tasting/dinners a
year, and American alts have won them a number of times.  Old
Detroit, from the Detroit Brewing Company (?), is contract-brewed
by Frankenmuth Brewing Company.  I believe they won twice.  Alaskan
Amber, from Alaskan Brewing (?) and perhaps accessible to West
Coasters, also won.  Fred Eckhardt is a big fan of Widmer Alt,
which I haven't tasted, but appears to be an excellent beer, if
perhaps too hoppy for the style.  Indianapolis Brewing has had a
lot of success with its Dusseldorfer Ale, which I'm not sure is
really a Dusselforf Alt.  The Free State Brewery in Lawrence,
Kansas, brews an Amber Alt.

The Zymurgy style guidelines on Alts are:

   SG 1.044 - 1.048
 IBUs 25 - 35
Color 11 - 19

You should adhere to the suggested starting gravities--this is a
1040s beer.  A slightly stronger alt, termed a "Sticke," is
occasionally tapped and served to clientele lucky enough to be
around when it is tapped.  While the IBU range appears to allow
some leeway, it has been my experience that beers hopped to the
high end will be judged too hoppy.  The same pattern seems to hold
with color.  Keeping in mind that a Bass Ale is a 10 and Michelob
Dark a 17 in color, aim toward the lighter end of the color
spectrum.

Grains and hops used should be German.  Wyeast has two excellent
yeasts from which to choose, namely #1007 "German ale" and #1338
"European ale."  Of the two, as oft stated in HBD, #1338 produces
a maltier, more complex-tasting beer.  If at all possible, chill
your fermenter at the end of primary fermentation to about 40
degrees F, then rack the beer to secondary and cold-condition the
beer for a couple weeks.  This is what the Germans do, and this
practice is also recommended by Steve Daniel, who has won the
Nationals numbers of times.  The rationale for cold-conditioning is
to drop the yeast out, for the fruity-yeasty flavors found in
English beers are not desired in Alts.  Both of the above Wyeasts
drop out well and you get a very bright, clear beer.

A good starting point for a recipe is George and Laurie Fix's
"Vienna Mild," substituting an alt yeast for a lager yeast.  Such
a recipe for a 5-gallon batch might go something like this:

8 pounds pilsner malt (or 6 pounds light, unhopped dme)
4 oz 10L crystal malt
4 oz 60L crystal malt
4 oz 120L crystal malt
(assumes 75% extraction efficiency)

6 - 7 AAUs German hops (Hallertauer, Tettnang)

Wyeast 1338 or 1007

cold-conditioning in secondary

Alt grain bills can employ some wheat malt, so you might substitute
a pound of wheat malt for a pound of pilsner malt.

If your club members are setting out to brew, by all means vary the
hops, hop schedule, color malts, and yeast, and let us know how it
turns out.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 11:50:34 -0400
From: Gerald Andrew Winters <gerald@engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Dormant yeast?

In HBD # 973 James W. Smith responds to the following question...

>> - When my fermentation is nearing completion, does the yeast go into a
>> dormant  state or just die?

>They go dormant.  If you wait too long before priming you won't get
>carbonation, because once the yeast go dormant, they need things that
>finished beer lacks in order to wake back up.  Carbonation is done by
>the yeasties that haven't gone dormant yet at bottling time; there are
>still a bunch of them in suspension even when the beer looks clear.

I'm wondering if the solution to my long standing problem lies in James's
response.  The problem I have is that it takes an exceptionally long time
for my beers to reach a proper carbonation level.  No way do my beers
become properly carbonated after a month or so.  I would say my beers need
about four months or so.  Sure, I use 3/4 cup corn sugar as many do.  And,
yes, I have tried different sources for the sugar in case of a bad batch or
something.  But my results have been uniform, regardless.  What strikes me
in contrast is something I recall reading in Papazian's TCJoHB.  I believe
he says that because of his busy schedule, many times he does not bottle
until after 4-6 weeks settling time in the secondary.  Indeed, I usually
wait about this long.  At this point fermentation has nearly ceased (1 bubble
> 3 min.).  It seems to me that much of the yeast going dormant is a possible
explanation for my problem.  I should also mention that I use Wyeast liquid
cultures and brew both lagers and ales.
  So my question is, can someone provide a good rule of thumb as to when
bottling should occur?  And is my presumption correct that letting the
beer sit too long in the secondary may cause sluggish carbonation later on.

Gerald A. Winters
gerald@eecs.umich.edudionysus%

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 11:57:33 EDT
From: Don.Veino@East.Sun.COM (Don Veino - Sun USOPS WSU New Products
 Introduction)
Subject: Moron Labels

Hi All,

Just a little more on the labels subject...

A few folks asked about an easier way to get removeable labels
for the body of a bottle... so, I took a walk down the hall to
our supplies closet and came up with two suggestions:

* Post-it notes (pick your size - large for body, small for neck labels)
* Removeable address labels (Avery Mfg, Cat # S-6432, 3-up 4x2 in. was
	in stock here) or file folder labels

I personally use plain white paper (more environmentally friendly!)
labels photocopied from a 3-up master.  I made the labels go the full
width (8.5 in) of the paper, so when cut and adhered to the bottle
(white glue), they wrap ** all the way around ** and then stick to
themselves.  Never had a problem with them coming off until wanted, but
easily done then.  Recycles easily too!

Don

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 09:19:31 PDT
From: gak@wrs.com (Richard Stueven)
Subject: Re: Beer Drinkers of America

Thomas Vodacek asks:

>I found in my mail todat (snail mail that is) a letter and questionaire
>from a group called the Beer Drinkers of America.  Does anyone in
>Digestland have any good information on this group?  Is it worth it
>and do they do anything positive?

BDA is the political arm of the industrial brewers.  They lobby for
laws that promote the interests of large brewing companies, often at
the expense of the smaller breweries.  They also oppose all
relegalization efforts for drugs other than alcohol, because they argue
that it's not possible to use the currently-illegal drugs in a
responsible manner.  (Please let's not argue that last point on HBD.
There are more appropriate places.)  A more likely explanation is that
they want to avoid any possible added competition for their markets.

Their one positive copntribution might be the "Party Smart" program,
but that always seemed to me to be a marketing scam to sell more Bud
Light.

I joined last year and learned all this from their own newsletters, and
I have since let my membership expire.

hope this helps
gak

Richard Stueven        gak@wrs.com         attmail!gakhaus!gak        107/H/3&4

How can you be ignorant of something you didn't know in the first place?
                                                      - Choo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 09:10:32 PDT
From: mdcsc!gdh@uunet.UU.NET (Garrett Hildebrand)
Subject: Re: cider question (yeast)

On Monday, 28 Sep 1992, John Alden writes:
>
>just a question about the hard apple cider. will brewing yeast suffice
>for the champagne or ale yeast?
>just wondering.
>thanks
>john
>
Ale yeast _is_ a brewing yeast. I have no experience making cider with
a lager-type yeast. Try it and see!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 11:39:48 EDT
From: eisen@kopf.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Carl West)
Subject: Yeast washing questions


I've heard tell of `washing' yeast with acid to kill off bacteria.

My questions for the microbiologists are:

What pH should this acid bath be?
Is it important what acid is used?
What is the proceedure?

and my questions for the chemists are:

Using distilled water and, say, standard distilled white vinegar
(what _does_ 5% acidity _mean_ anyway?), how would I mix up a bath of
a particular pH? I have neither a pH meter nor pH papers to check it.


Carl

When I stop learning, bury me.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 13:38:53 EDT
From: Sean J. Caron <CARONS@TBOSCH.dnet.ge.com>
Subject: label adhesive



The very best, bar-none, label adhesive I've ever used is, get this, MILK !
(I use 1% - as if it matters.) I picked up this tip from right here in the
digest a few months to a year ago, and have used it many times.

Simply dip a pre-printed paper label in a saucer of milk, apply it to the
bottle

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 13:41:14 EDT
From: Sean J. Caron <CARONS@TBOSCH.dnet.ge.com>
Subject: label adhesive II



sorry - i got happy fingers and sent the post too soon!

apply label to the bottle, then squeeze out any air bubbles. The labels will
stay on untill you remove them by soaking in water - then they come right
off with no scrapping or amonia or anything.



                                            sean

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 12:37 CDT
From: korz@iepubj.att.com
Subject: Oxidation/Racking to 2ndary/McAndrew's/AllAboutBeer/Airlocks

Russ
>    And, wrt. aeration/oxygenation/oxidation of wort/beer:  Aeration is the
>introduction of air into the wort/beer.  This puts oxygen into the solution.
>This can be a good thing or a bad thing, depending on when it happens.
>Aeration at post-boil/pre-ferment time is good ("oxygenation"), and aeration
>after ferment is bad (causes "oxidation").

Also, aeration of hot wort (generally above 80F) results in oxidation which
is also bad, even though it is post-boil/pre-ferment.  Cool your wort
before aeration.

David asks:
>My first lager batch has been merilly fermenting away now for
>three weeks now and I'm getting anxious to get it away from the
>sediments that have settled to the bottom.  However, it has not
>stopped fermenting and I'm a little concerned with that.  Is it
>alright to rack to secondary before primary fermentation has
>completed?

Yes, it's alright.  In fact, siphoning before active fermentation has
ended has the added benefit that most of the oxygen that might get
introduced during siphoning would then get scrubbed-out by the actively
escaping CO2.  The only snag might be that the siphon may have a
tendency to break, but you can reduce the chances of this happening
by (increasing the flow rate) making the height difference as big as
possible and making sure that the hose does not have too large an inside
diameter.

Thanks to Bill for taking a stab at a McAndrew's Scotch Ale recipe.
It happens to be one of my favorites.  I would just like to add that
McAndrew's Scotch Ale has a very intense Goldings flavor.  I would
suggest adding 1/2 to 3/4 ounce of Goldings (East Kent, B.C., U.S.,
maybe even Styrian would work) during the last 15 minutes of the boil.
See Jackie Rager's article in the Hops Special Issue of Zymurgy for
how much bitterness the 15 minute boil will add to the final beer.
Another beer that has an intense Goldings flavor is Young's Special
London Ale -- another of my favorites.

Bill also writes:
          I'd use the Wyeast #1028 London Ale yeast on this one. For Scotch
          Ales, the Wyeast #1098 (Whitbread) is slightly less attenuative,

I thought just the opposite -- that Whitbread was more attenuative than
London Ale.  Comments?

John writes regarding All About Beer Magazine:
>IMHO, it has some interesting articles, but seems to be primarily write-ups
>about places with lots of beers, written by the owners/managers of those
>establishments.  Not enough of my cup of tea to subscribe.

I'd like to add that every issue that I've read of AAB, has had lots of
technical errors.  For example, Duvel given as a Trappiste Ale and no
mention of Orval, Westmalle, St. Sixtus (the secularly-brewed version
of Westvleteren), Roquefort or Shaapskooi (pardon my spelling -- I don't
have my books here at work).

John asks:
>contracting as it cooled.  Is there a way to prevent the water from
>dribbling back in, other than temporarily using a blow-off tube for a
>few hours while the air cools?

I use all three-piece airlocks and make sure to not overfill them.  If
when you fill one you have the level of the water above the bottom of the
"thimble" then it will work in both directions without sucking water.
Although I don't own one, I believe the "triple-ripple" airlocks work
in both directions also, without any special precautions.

Al.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 13:15:31 CDT
From: bliss@csrd.uiuc.edu (Brian Bliss)
Subject: yeast/hangovers/McAndrews/airlocks

Russ Gelinas writes:
>   Chris C. notice that batches made with Wyeast 1056 slurry got
>progressively drier, to the point of being too dry.  I've noticed the
>same thing.  2 re-uses (3 batches total) is my limit; the 3rd batch
>comes out quite dry.  It must be a good adapter to one's brewing conditions.
>I have heard that it can be unstable (but it's a great yeast nonetheless).
>Is there a Wyeast strain that does not exhibit this behavior, or at least
>is not so quick about it?

Chris was also making strong ales from the yeast, which tends to
select for the more alcohol-tolerant mutants.  This happens to all
yeasts, to one degree or another.  If the batches are low-alcohol,
it wont happen to near the extent.

Save some for a gran cru!

- ---------------------

>exposure (specifically lacquer and some paint fumes.)  I don't know what
>it is in some beers, both commercial and homebrew, that gives me a
>headache.  By analogy, higher alcohols (aka fusel oils) are similar and
>may be at the root of the problem.  The beers that give me headaches
>sometimes have a sharper/harsher edge to the flavor.  I think the

I don't know, but Bass ale seems to give me that headache that is right
smack dab in the middle of your head, and it's pretty hoppy, and tastes
like it was fermented at a high temp (=> fusel alcohols).  Double diamond
is almost a Bass clone, but tastes cleaner, like it was fermented at a lower
temp, and I have no such problem with it.

What is it about mead that makes for such mean hangovers?

- ---------------------

>McAndrew's is brewed from highland pale malt (a strain called
>Golden Promise), crystal, amber, and small amounts of chocolate,
>black, and wheat malts. The hops are whole, compressed Fuggles and
>Kent Goldings. I have no details on the yeast used, and the beer
>is filtered & pasteurized so there's no chance of culturing it.

>A brief profile is: OG 1.078 (7.6% alcohol vol); color bronze (much
>lighter than the typical 90/- Wee Heavy); aroma of fresh hops (also
>untypical of the style) but balanced by malt sweetness & some
>roastiness; body very full; palate sweet at the start but
>developing into a very rich balance of malt sweetness, roastiness,
>and intense, spicy (from the Goldings) hopiness. Finish is long and
>bitter.

>If I were to attempt to brew this beer using a partial mash (my
>normal style of brewing), I would use about 2 lbs of English pale
>ale malt, about 1/2 lb of fairly light crystal malt (maybe 20 Lov)
>plus 1/2 lb of Victory malt or Belgian Biscuit malt (the closest
>things available to English Amber malt), 1/2 lb of wheat malt (for
>body & head retention. Carapils would accomplish the same result),
>and a small amount of Chocolate malt (maybe 1/4 lb or less) for the
>roastiness. I wouldn't use any black malt or roasted barley because
>of the darker color it would impart.

Since it is my favorite (affordable, < $2 / bottle) beer, I tried to brew
up a McAndrews clone last week, and came quite close on the color and taste.
I used the Belgians malts, also: 4 lbs aromatic, 4 lbs caravienne, 10 lbs
Pale malt, mashed @ 156F.  made 4.25 gallons SG 1.086 wort with my bad
sparge efficiency.   1/2 oz ~7% Nothern Brewer, 1 oz 4.5% fuggles, 1 oz
5.6% Goldings for 70 min, and another 1.5 oz goldings and 1 oz fuggles
spread throughtout the boil.  I used distilled water for the mash, and no
water treatement whatsoever for the sparge (except to acidify it); I didn't
want hard water accentuating the bitterness.  I pitched whitbread Ale
yeast for the diacetyl notes, and now the primary fermentation has
subsided after 5 days, with a SG of 1.040.

I always considered McAndrews to be quite hoppy, but side-by-side my clone
had the appropriate bitterness, but too much flavoring hop (time should
fade it somewhat, and we'll see how it turns out).  My brew was the same
dark-orange color, but a shade lighter.  It also definitely needs a little
roasted barley or other dark malt in it.  The McAndrews was a bit maltier;
the fresh hop flavor in mine is probably masking the malt somewhat.

Next time I'll try: 8 lbs aromatic malt for even more maltiness, 9 lbs
pale ale malt, 2-3 oz roasted barley or maybe 5-6 oz of the special B malt
instead (black patent may be more authentic - forget the chocolate... it
needs that slight burnt note), the same hot-mash > 155F, the same long
boil to get some caramelization.  The same bittering hops, and cut the
flavoring hops in half, with none in the boil for less than 30 min.
Avoid, no matter how you're tempted: hard water, brown sugar, and dry-hopping.

Your mileage may (and definitely will) vary, and I'd be happy to trade
bottles if you attempt it (for comparison purposes only, of course :-)

- ---------------------

>I'm making my first attempt at a true lager brew, and racked to the
>secondary after two weeks of primary fermentation at 40 degrees F (a
>little long, I agree).  After transferring to the secondary, I put the
>carboy in the fridge, and noticed that the fermentation lock was working
>in reverse for a short time, due to the temporary fact that the air
>trapped in the fermenter was warmer than the air in the fridge, and was
>contracting as it cooled.  Is there a way to prevent the water from
>dribbling back in, other than temporarily using a blow-off tube for a
>few hours while the air cools?

Use an S-shaped airlock instead of an econo-lock.  blow-off tubes
will also suck liquid back into the brew if they are not long enough.

bb

- ----
Assume that moderation is the key to everything.
You then have excessive moderation, a contradicion.
excessiveness is clearly the way to go...


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 14:26:44 CDT
From: cush@msc.edu
Subject: Federal Regulations

An earlier posting on R.C.B concerning the home production of whiskey led me,
on a lark, to call the local office of the bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and
Firearms for a citation of the law (for reference it is Title 26 USC 5171
that outlaws production of distilled spirits by other than a bonded distillery)

Along the way an interesting tidbit came up: according to the IRS Federal
regulation 27CFR25.207 it has ALWAYS been legal for the proprieter of a brewery
to remove up to 200 gallons per year from the premises, for personal use,
without paying taxes on it.  This even before homebrewing became legal.

Some guys have all the luck!
________________________________________________
Cush Hamlen
cush@msc.edu

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 12:28:28 PDT
From: Richard Childers <rchilder@us.oracle.com>
Subject: headaches, yeast, and a possible solution


Several people have brought up the thread of headaches and the possibility
that yeast may have something to do with this ...

> Date:         Fri, 25 Sep 92 10:09:21 EDT
> From: Peter Bartscherer <BARTSCHP@DUVM.OCS.DREXEL.EDU>
> Subject:      Ketone Headaches
>
> After Kieran O'Connor's post regarding headaches, I e-mailed him with my
> thoughts and then the next day read Mike Mahler's post suggesting that
> a high level of ketones might be the reason. Now here are my questions:
>    *  what causes the creation of ketones?
>    *  is there some indication of a high level of ketones (eg heavy
>       kreusen in the primary...)?
>    *  will inadequate rinse of chlorine bleach create high ketone levels?
>    *  will inadequate rinse cause chlorine headaches? :-)
>    *  does using a blow-off tube help reduce headaches (whatever their
>       cause)?
>    *  what else might be the cause? dry yeast? infection? sediment?
>
> Date: 25 Sep 1992 10:38:57 -0400 (EDT)
> From: FWALTER%RULUPI@ccmail.sunysb.edu
> Subject: headaches caused by yeast?
>
> I fortunately do not suffer from headaches, but my wife does. One of the
> things that seems to bring them on is yeast. She often gets headaches after
> drinking homebrew OR commercial beers with yeast still in the bottle (like the
> old Boulder Beers). Other beers do not seem to cause this problem.
>

In a book I read on making hard apple cider, they suggested pasteurization
after bottling, and I wonder if this might be used to kill remaining yeast
cells in the solution, after bottling, but before drinking ?

I don't suffer from these headaches - at least, not now - so it's up to
another person to test this theory.

According to the book, pasteurization was accomplished by submerging the
bottles containing the product in 160 F water for about an hour.

Note : this should be done _after_ the beer has carbonated in the bottle.

- -- richard

=====
- -- richard childers		rchilder@us.oracle.com		1 415 506 2411
         oracle data center  --  unix systems & network administration

                    Klein flask for rent. Inquire within.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 15:59:35 EDT
From: Arthur Delano <ajd@itl.itd.umich.edu>
Subject: Sneezing in my beer


Tangential to the issue of headaches from homebrew is a problem
i develop from some beers: sneezing fits.

Some unfiltered, unpasteurized beers cause it, some don't.  I've never
had a problem with filtered and/or pasteurized beers, so i would assume
the problem would be the yeast.  Since not all beers with live yeast
cause it, i would assume that my sensitivity would be to certain
strains.

The reaction doesn't last long, and i don't get too congested.
My only other allergies are to some pollens and to the antibiotic
arythromycin (sp?), so i am certain that the grains or hops are not
the problem.

Has anybody else had this problem?

AjD

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 17:47:26 EDT
From: garti@mrg.xyplex.com (Mark Garti  mrgarti@xyplex.com)
Subject: hops

I recently enjoyed a Pale Ale at John Harvard's
brew pub in Harvard Square.  If any of you hop
heads out there have tried it, any idea what kind
of hop provides that great aroma?
The nut brown ale was good too.
Mark   mrgarti@xyplex.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 16:19:01 -0700
From: John Dilley <jad@pimlico.nsa.hp.com>
Subject: Announcing the mead-lovers digest


	This message announces the creation of the mead-lovers digest,
dedicated to the discussion of brewing (and consuming) mead.  The
mead-lovers digest is set up similar in format to the HBD (thanks to Rob
for providing me the scripts! :-).  So if you are interested in mead,
feel free to join the discussion.

	As with the HBD, please be sure to submit articles to be
included in the digest to mead-lovers@nsa.hp.com.  Send administrative
requests (for addition to or removal from the list) to the request
address:

	mead-lovers-request@nsa.hp.com

Enjoy, and happy brewing!

			 --       jad       --
		    John A. Dilley <jad@nsa.hp.com>


------------------------------

Date: 29 Sep 92 18:04:17 EDT
From: James Spence <70740.1107@compuserve.com>
Subject: Nat'l Comp. Mead Judging


The AHA's position on the Mead best-of-show.

We became aware that there were some concerns in the way the best-of-show meads
were judged this year via a letter we received from Micah in July. After
receiving Micah's letter, I looked into the situation to find out what
happened.  I discovered that there were some inconsistencies in the way the
best of show meads were judged compared to previous years.  I also discovered
that all 4 judges and the judge director unanimously agreed on the final
decisions.   The AHA stands by their final decision as a fair representation of
best of show.

I wish we had run a perfect competition, but unfortunately, we did not.  We are
always striving to improve the competition and Micah's letter informed me of a
situation I was previously unaware of.  I assure you all that steps have and
will continue to be taken to avoid any future misunderstandings and
inconsistencies.

Anyone who wants to participate on the National Homebrew Competition Committee
may contact me through CompuServe (70740,1107) or at PO Box 1679, Boulder CO
80306  (303) 447-0816.  For those currently on the committee, a new package is
in the works for everyone and I hope to have it the mail shortly after the
GABF.  It will include a working list of those people who have agreed to
participate as well as first round judging topics.

Sincerely,

Karen Barela
AHA Vice President



------------------------------


End of HOMEBREW Digest #980, 09/30/92
*************************************
-------

Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing