HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tmc@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Tim Ciceran)
Subject: Re: A1200 - yay or nay?
Organization: Brock University, St. Catharines Ontario
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 17:22:25 GMT

In article <1992Nov8.230440.18851@seas.gwu.edu> gerald@seas.gwu.edu
(Gerald G. Washington) writes:

>>But, allusions have been made to additional configurations. And with the
>>expansion bus, DSP support and accelerators should be cost-effective.

>I tend not to trust the allusions.  Allusions were made that the 32-bit
>expansion of the A3000 would mean A3000 owners could upgrade to the latest
>technology from Commodore for some time to come.  This has since become an
>illusion...

I disagree. People fundamentally misappropriate the A3000's AGA situation.
What is ultimately missing is RTG, not plug-and-play chipset support.

While adding a direct upgrade is ideal for many people, RTG would allow
third-party development to cater to the needs of the user base. Had RTG
been completed with the launch of the A4000, there would have been very
little consternation from existing owners, as one could have picked up
a Resolver, A2410, EGS/110 etc. Anyone who believes that AGA is anything
more than an interim solution is deluding themselves. 

As for the A1200, I see it as an excellent prospect for third-party
development. I'd rather have CBM worry about getting the things out the
door than developing enhancements.  

>Given the proposed pricing of the A1200 (assuming less than $700 US), it is
>a great package.

Definitely.

>The one-piece design is a questionable style.  It has worked well for
>Commodore with their previous computers, and this is a low-end machine.
>I may want something with a detached keyboard and some slots; I'll have
>to wait for a mid-range machine.

Hopefully this won't be long in coming.

>IDE, too, is fine for low-end computers.  I still wonder about the decision
>to use IDE in the A4000--is the savings that great?

Questionable call. Of course, they can vindicate themselves with SCSI-II :).
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Calling all lurkers!
From: martin@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (Amiga 4000/040 is Coming via UPS!! YEEEHA!!)
Date: 12 Nov 92 13:13:02 -0600
Reply-To: martin@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU
Organization: St. Cloud State University, St. Cloud, MN

In article <BxIH2E.9H@csugrad.cs.vt.edu>, cfury@csugrad.cs.vt.edu (Chris Fury) writes:
>skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls) writes:
>
>>It has come to my attention that there are several persons who are reading
>>this group on a regular basis, but who are not posting.  Several of these
>>folks have sent me email regarding one subject or another, but most have
>>never posted to .advocacy.  Why not?
>
>probabably because they're following a nicer set of net-ettiqute.

lucky everyone doesn't follow this netiqute you speak of...there would be
no posting.

>>Skip Sauls
>>skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu

Jim
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   It is not I who am CrAzY, it is I who am MAD!!!!! -Ren (SpaCe MaDDneSs)
Living w/o a computer 'till the 4000 comes. Sigh... X-ASOCC (CBM Blew that one)
           Jim Martin   MATRIX -- If it's made, we sell it. Almost.
A4000 Coming SOON!!, Real soon.                 MARTIN@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: don@chopin.udel.edu (Donald R Lloyd)
Subject: Re: Top 10 reasons why ...
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 22:17:55 GMT

<1drj22INNdj3@falcon.natinst.com> glens@natinst.com (Glen Sescila) writes:
>
>	StarBase Atari in San Antonio, TX will have a demo unit that I can
>try out within a couple of weeks.  And then I can buy one (probably in
>January) if I like it.  Where in Texas can I try out a 1200?
>
     
     Since the 1200 has not yet been officially announced in the US yet,
you can't.  However, it is shipping in Europe and will be announced at
COMDEX this weekend (I think!) in the US.  If Commodore is as quick to
ship after announcement as they were with the 4000, then US availability
will begin a full month or so before Xmas.

>	How does this make no LAN better than LocalTalk?  You know, there will
>be add-ons for the Falcon also, GASP! even though it has built in features!

     If I don't need a LAN, no LAN for me _is_ better than localtalk.
Sure, there will be add-ons for the Falcon... and you'll be able to use
one of them at a time, and you won't be able to take advantage of things
like PCMCIA, etc.

>>A sampler of course.  If you have enough money for a CD-ROM drive, you
>>should have no problem with a $40 sampler box, either.  Even with a
>>SCSI controller as well, I'll bet the A1200 will cost less than a Falcon
>>will when released.
>
>	This still doesn't make no built in sampler better than the Mic jack
>on the Falcon.  Your whole article was saying add, add, add (to the 1200).
>This does not make the 1200 better than the Falcon, things can be added to
>the Falcon also, you just don't need to do it as much.  (No battery backed
>clock/calender either?  Why don't I just build my own computer and copy my
>friends ROMs and disks?)

     You just need to add a better operating system, expansion slots, and
a larger software & dealer base to the Falcon...


>P.S.  Which newsgroup can I go to to get some meaningful feedback on the 1200
>to help make my decision?  So far from what I've seen here the choice is
>very obvious:

>Viva la Falcon!

     The best way to get good information on the 1200 is by waiting a few weeks
and sitting down in front of one.  I'm sure there will be plenty of time for 
you to do this while you're waiting for US availability of the Falcon :-)



-- 
Don Lloyd                / "No, I just think that a computer grafted on top of \
don@chopin.udel.edu      | another computer is a kludge.  It has nothing to do |
GeNIE: D.LLOYD7          \ with the Intel CPU"  - Jerry Shekhel                /
BIX: DRL  
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: philip@utstat.uucp (Philip McDunnough)
Subject: Re: Word Perfect 5.1 for the new Amigas
Organization: University of Toronto, Dept. of Statistics
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 22:08:06 GMT

In article <1992Nov13.015548.24560@mksol.dseg.ti.com> stevew@convx1.dseg.ti.com (Steve Wootton) writes:

[ ]
>
>That's nice.  I prefer professionally-supported software.  Your choice, 
>but not much of an argument against WordPerfect.  As a matter of fact, on 
>most systems, there's WordPerfect, too.  We've got WordPerfect on our 
>workstations, our PCs, and our Vaxen.  Who needs TeX, anyway?

Anyone who wants to work in a research lab and has to prepare technical 
documents. If WordPerfect is the goal of the american people then good luck
in moving into the 19th century.
 
Anyone who thinks that WP can prepare mathematical articles, including 
revisions, e-mailing for cooperation, etc..., is not in touch with reality.
TeX is the standard and will become even moreso as graphical frontends
appear (as they have with Scientific Word on the PC). 
 
AmigaTeX is extremely well supported by someone I would put my faith in far 
more than your typical business word processor.

Philip McDunnough
University of Toronto
philip@utstat.toronto.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: ralph@bugend.edvina.se (Staffan Vilcans)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Top 10 reasons why ...
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 92 00:58:27 GMT
Organization: Bugend BBS

skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls) writes:

> This was needed as Atari has proven they can't develop a decent sound
> chip on their own.

I belive there wasn't even Atari's sound chip, but something that was 
bought. Let's see... Was it Motorola as well? I have a spec sheet of 
the 8-bit version (as used in ZX Spectrum 128) somewhere...

It may not give the greatest sound but atleast you can easily port 
music from Atari to Spectrum...


***       REALLY NICE SIG I THINK     ***
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From: Ivan_Pintori@mas.sublink.org (Ivan Pintori)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Thank you CBM
Date: 4 Nov 92 03:22:24 GMT
Organization: Mangazone Advanced Services - ++39-6-7029438

In a message dated Tue  3 Nov 92  4:33, Marv@pnet51.orb.mn.org (marv Gordon
wrote:

>>I also want to publicly thank CBM for listening to my idea and going out
>>of THEIR way in supplying me with shall we say "material" for an up
coming
>>project that will benefit both the Amiga and my company, BlueLine
Software.

and also you wrote:

 MG> BlueLine Software develops and markets software for IBM System/370 to
 MG> 390 range of mainframes.  We are quickly becoming a leader in the
 MG> areas of performance and productivity software for VM, VSE and MVS
 MG> systems...

Would that mean that we'll get THAT kind of quality software...mmm I just
THINK that I want to get on your mailing list (read: I believe that I'd be
VERY VERY VERY VERY interested on the projects that you'll be
porting/creating on the Amiga ;-)

I'll send you mail with my address, please keep me informed!


-- Via DLG Pro v0.995

|  ARPA InterNet Mail --> Ivan_Pintori@mas.sublink.org                  |
|  Fidonet Matrix ------> FidoNet:  Ivan Pintori 2:335/330@fidonet.org  |
|  Amiganet Matrix -----> AmigaNet: Ivan Pintori 39:102/3@amiganet.ftn  |
From: x90wardell@gw.wmich.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Oh my God! Help my friend not buy an IBM!
Date: 10 Nov 92 11:18:33 EST
Organization: Western Michigan University

In article <1950@vall.dsv.su.se>, matt-dah@dsv.su.se (Mattias Dahlberg) writes:
> Stephenson Daniel A (das9674@usl.edu) wrote:
> 
> : > > If you're not interested in computers buy a PC. Do I need to
> : > > explain my point?
> 
> : I *love* it when these 'lurker' types we've never seen before come
> : out of the woodwork once and a while and inject a little reality into
> : you *GOOFY* Amigans' heads. ;)
> 
> It seems like my statement above made a lot of PC-owners angry. But why?
> I mean that if you just wanna use your computer to run "office programs"
> a PC is excellent. And that's just what most people want.


	You sound like I did before I got a PC.  I wasn't happy with
it at first.  The PC was the computer of Word Perfect and lotus.  BORING.
	But in reality, you can do as much with a PC as you can with
an Amiga.  I would almost (but not quite) say you can do almost as much
with a Mac as with an Amiga and PC (well maybe not).  The PC maeks a
good game playing machine, good for software development, multitasking,
and other neat little things.
	Of course, I use OS/2 not MS-Crap.  That is a key difference
I would say.  Multitasking means a lot to me too.
						-Brad




> 
> --
> =========================================================
> =  Regards  =  email:              =  1280x512x256000+  = 
> =  Mattias  =  matt-dah@dsv.su.se  =  I love it.        =
> =========================================================
> =  The only way to get improved software for the Amiga  =
> =  is *buying* the existing ones. Do you realize that?  = 
> =========================================================
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: rogeraw@dhhalden.no (ROGER ALLAN WAHLGREN)
Subject: FALCON SPEED ......
Organization: Ostfold College
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 12:14:47 GMT

 I am now sick of hearing you amiga folks saying that falcon is only 2 times 
the speed of the ST.

Some speed ex:

640 x 400 2 colors: 500% increase over 8MHz STE
640 x 480 256 colors: 460% increse over 8MHz STE
640 x 480 65536 colors interlaced: 360% increase over 8MHz STE

all tests are against 640 x 400 mono on the STE, which is the fastest mode 
on that computer....

AND the Falcon is a TRUE 32-Bit machine, with 32-bit ramaccess and all 
that, the only thing that is lower, is the internal cpu-expansionbus, which 
is 24-bit. Shame on Atari....

When it comes to mem-bus, you all say that falcon only has one, while the 
A1200 has two. As for I know the A1200 will be fitted with 2meg chip-mem as 
standard, and no fast-mem. As it is a low end machine, how many users will 
upgrade to more memory ?  If not, you only have one bus to use....

On the Falcon you have no seperation of the memory, and all can be used for 
sound and graphics, and you have burst mode on the 68030. By the way, the 
main cpu is not an EC, but a true 68030.

Let us not discuss which computer is the best and fastest. When both have 
been on the market for a while we will maybe have some software to compare 
the two computers. 


R.A.W
From: barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: EMPLANT vs. QUADRA Price
Date: 13 Nov 92 02:20:26 GMT
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA

In article <sf0jj5i00iUz87ghhK@andrew.cmu.edu> bc2y+@andrew.cmu.edu (Brian T Cheek) writes:
>It's funny to see people compare the price of an A4000+EMPLANT with a
>Quadra.  The Amiga configuration might be cheaper, so might the Quadra.
>
>You forget one thing; how much is a Quadra system that emulates an Amiga?

   The price of the Quadra plus $300.

>-Brian :)

---
| Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
--------------------------------------------------
From: pl159410@academ01.mty.itesm.mx (Alejandro Garza Gonzalez)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: ##### A1200 RELEASED NOVEMBER ##########
Date: 10 Nov 92 23:30:59 GMT

Need I remind everyone that a 68000 can also address 16MB of RAM???

And that 8 MB of it is devoted to the mapping of ports & internal system
usage??

Therefore, you would only have <8MB USER RAM. 

There. 
============================================================================
| Alejandro Garza / (83)38-46-86 / Monterrey, Mexico ::  ^^^^^;            |
| JanusMan- IRC ::  pl159410@academ01.mty.itesm.mx   ::  ('') ; (the hell?)|
| 		    luisk@men_at_work.mty.itesm.mx   ::  /_   ;   o        |
|    // Only amiga, folks!          		     ::  |_- _; .o         |
|  \X/  "That's very intelligent of you... *NOT!*"   ::    ==        J'92! |
============================================================================
From: efp90@ecs.soton.ac.uk (Pritchard EF)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: **** A1200 Info **** (200+ lines)
Date: 10 Nov 92 18:48:49 GMT

In <1da7aaINN3c4@uwm.edu> bloc1469@ee.ee.uwm.edu (Gregory R. Block) writes:

>In article <1992Nov4.234825.14968@news.th-darmstadt.de> wallmann@backus.pu.informatik.th-darmstadt.de (Natuerlich!) writes:

>>	Well let me tell you about an application I have in mind. Let's
>>	assume I am writing a little game for the true color mode and I want
>>	to use a iconeditor or somesuch to draw a little shape. With the 
>>	Falcon I can do it in a window, in arguably not bombastic but still 
>>	AA-bashing 640x200x65536 colors.

Huh? I am under the (informed) impression that 65536 `True (ha ha)
Colour' mode was only availiable in 320*200 mode on the Falcon...

----

E.F.Pritchard                       ///
efp90@uk.ac.soton.ecs           \\\/// Amiga     I seriously need something
University of Southampton        \xx/            to go on this side of my
England.                                         signature, any ideas?
From: x90wardell@gw.wmich.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Oh my God! Help my friend not buy an IBM!
Date: 11 Nov 92 12:33:57 EST
Organization: Western Michigan University

In article <8668@orbit.cts.com>, chucks@pnet51.orb.mn.org (Erik Funkenbusch) writes:
> x90wardell@gw.wmich.edu writes:
>>	That's crazy.  I am very interested in computers, I simply need
>>my computer to do more than the Amiga cn offer.  And believe it or not,
>>a PC can be equipped to do more for me than an Amiga could ever.
> 
> Out of curiosity, what sort of equipment does you PC have that isn't available
> for the Amiga?
> 

	Okay, I will name one off the top of my head: intel chip programmers.
I need  it for my work.  PC has it, Amiga doesn't.



> .-----------------------------------------------------------------------------.
> | UUCP: {crash tcnet petrus quest}!orbit!pnet51!chucks | Amiga, IBM, and any  |
> | ARPA: crash!orbit!pnet51!chucks@nosc.mil             | system you let me    |
> | INET: chucks@pnet51.orb.mn.org                       | get my grubby mind   |
> |------------------------------------------------------| into.                |
> | Programmer at large, employment options welcome, inquire within.            |
From: kdarling@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: HAM, Screens, etc (was Re: **** A1200 Info ****)
Date: 5 Nov 92 06:25:51 GMT
Article-I.D.: garfield.kdarling.720944751
Organization: North Carolina State University

bloc1469@ee.ee.uwm.edu (Gregory R. Block) writes:
>"Compressed" graphics modes are quite common.  There are two extremely
>popular methods.  There's HAM, and there's DYUV.  [...]

Well, I don't know if you'd call them "popular" :-)  But they're in use,
and, as you said, can be _very_ handy in certain situations.

>1) It's several times faster than trying to do a truecolor mode of the
>same depth.  DYUV on the CD-I gives you a simulated 15-bit image.
>HAM8 gives you a simulated 24.  (Not sure on the depth of the CD-I
>DYUV, might be deeper.  I'm sure Kevin will tell us one way or the
>other, won't you???)

"Annoy Kevin Darling - give incorrect CD-I info"  :-)  :-)  :-)

It's "24 bit".  Each two bytes for two pixels contains two 4-bit luminance
(Y) deltas and one 4+4 bit U+V delta set.  The second pixel's U/V info is
linearly extrapolated from the first.  The resulting 8-bit Y/U/V values
are then converted to 8-bit R/G/B (24-bit total) for display.

Another compression method in use on CD-I is color RLE: the hardware
takes color run length data and decodes/shows it in realtime... perfect
for packing cartoon animations either stored in memory or played off disc.
A single-color line takes only two bytes of data, for example.

Btw, I think that Tandy's VIS system has some form of color RLE, plus
both 8 and 16-bit YUV (not delta'd, though).  I also seem to recall
hearing that the original Amiga (Lorraine) designers wanted to use
DYUV instead of HAM, but ran out of chip space and/or time. (rumor??)

best - kevin <kdarling@catt.ncsu.edu>
From: ralph@bugend.edvina.se (Staffan Vilcans)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: NO MORE *&#*$(^*& FEMALE BIMBO ADS!!!!!!!!
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 92 17:19:26 GMT
Organization: Bugend BBS

seifert@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Michael S. Seifert) writes:

> If you want real sexual harASSment (lets not glorify the term by pronouncing
> it different here in the 90s), you should see me slap girls in the ass just
> because I can...

That could be risky if these ideas about more guns get trough...
Imagine the scene:

Mike: Hi there, sweatie... <Slap!>
Girl: Get lost, creep! <Blam! Blam! Blam! (.45 or 9 mm, take your 
pick)>
Mike: Aarghh... <falls dead to the ground>


***       REALLY NICE SIG I THINK     ***
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Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: gerald@seas.gwu.edu (Gerald G. Washington)
Subject: Re: What Amiga Users Want In Future Software Applications!!!!
Organization: George Washington University
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 22:35:58 GMT

martin@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU writes:
>        o a word processor that can at LEAST read MS-Word/WP 5.1/AmiPro files

Yes, that is what I _really_ want--along with the ability to save in those
formats.  If we could just get AmiPro for AmigaDOS...

-- Gerald
From: ggg@kepler.unh.edu (Gregory G Greene)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Oh my God! Help my friend not buy an IBM!
Date: 9 Nov 1992 20:50:03 GMT
Organization: University of New Hampshire  -  Durham, NH
NNTP-Posting-Host: kepler.unh.edu

'>If you're not interested in computers buy a PC. Do I need to explain my
'>point?

	Yeah, I think you do need to explain.  I bought a PC last year and
   I'm interested in computers (I had an A500 before that and an Apple IIe
   before my A500).  Why does buying a PC mean you aren't interested in
   computers?  This sounds like more Amiga elitism crap to me.  Bash the
   competition along with the people that use it.

							Greg Greene
                                                        ggg@kepler.unh.edu


'>=  Mattias  =  matt-dah@dsv.su.se  =  I love it.        =
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Oh my God! Help my friend not buy an IBM!
From: dyer@nrlvx1.nrl.navy.mil (Doug Dyer)
Date: 11 Nov 92 16:40:13 -0400
Organization: NRL SPACE SYSTEMS DIVISION

In article <SUOPANKI.92Nov11185301@zombie.oulu.fi>, suopanki@zombie.oulu.fi (Heikki Suopanki) writes:
>>>>>> On Wed, 11 Nov 1992 10:46:30 GMT, west@ponder.csci.unt.edu (Bruce West) said:
> 
> Bruce>    I cannot strees the following point enough.  The amiga is an infinitely
> Bruce> more *productive* machine than an IBM.  
> 
> A 486DX2-66 (or any 486) machine has more raw CPU power than A3000 so in most
> cases it takes longer to do a thing with an A3000 than a 486 machine. And

Not necessarily.  The a3000 CPU has less work to do with the many coprocessors
aiding it.

> when you do things with a computer you have to type, use mouse etc.

For IO bound apps.

> There must persons who are faster typists and mouse users than you, so
> it will take more time for you to do things. Also there are more

For IO bound apps.

> software available for IBM PCs which means there is a more wide range of
> things to choose from. I'm quite sure that if there were 1000 skilled
> persons with good 486DX2-66 machines and with lots of right sowftware most
> of them would get more different things done in an hour than you.  

If those applications used the CPU rather than waiting on IO, but your argument
involves "type, use mouse."  My C-64 is faster than I type.

> Bruce>  The Amiga
> Bruce> *is* multitasking.  The IBM does *NOT* premtive multitask - period.  

Well.. DOS and windows, but there are other operating systems for those
machines.
 
> No kidding?  I wonder what my machine is doing if it's not
> preemptively mustitasking? Maybe you can explain? I have not taken
> drugs so it can't be a hallucination....

Ok ok, its mustitasking.  
                                                             
His point is subjective, but for me accurate.  I am far more productive with
the Amiga than I was on a PC *REGUARDLESS* of the softare advantage the latter
has.  The amiga OS is a real charm. 

-- 
Doug Dyer   *    STI   *    dyer@nrlvax.nrl.navy.mil    | "(2B) | !(2B) -> ?"
DISCLAIMER:  These are my opinions, and not necessarily |  LOWLY SHOPKEEPER,  
those of STI, NRL,  and most likely you too.            | WHERE IS YOUR PEZZ!
--------------------------------------------------------+---------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy