HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sacks@ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU ((Aaron V. Sacks))
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.biosph-l
Subject: Restoration, the same thing?
Date: 6 Nov 92 02:17:12 GMT
Reply-To: "(Aaron V. Sacks)" <sacks@ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

In response to the "Interior Secretary Lujan Announces Interagency Committee
Proposal To Restore 10 Million Acres Of Wetlands"
______________________________________________________________________________

It is great to see that people (because that is what the government is, people)
are realizing that wetlands and the environment are an important part of our
existents here on earth.

But my question is, though is a restored wetland still natural and if it isn't
then is it nature, or is it man-made or controlled?  Maybe to put it another
way is a restored '57 Chevy the same as an original never alter '57 Chevy?

I don't believe that it is natural and since it isn't natural then it isn't
nature.  But I do believe that restoration is something that must be done in
conjunction with plans to preserve and protect nature.

Something to ponder in your free time.  If the end of nature and its idea
interests you then you might want to read a book called "The End of Nature" by
Bill McKibben.

--------------------------
* Aaron V. Sacks 	 *
* sacks@acsu.buffalo.edu *
--------------------------
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Organization: State University of New York at Buffalo
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.sfs-l
Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1992 09:13:24 EST
From:         "Steven P. Roder" <TKSSTEVE@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject:      FTP Server support for SFS

Ladies and Gentlemen;

     I recently sent an inquiry to a member of TCPIP Development about
when we might see server support for Shared Files in FTP.  Here is the
reply I received:


    "Steven,  we are looking into this and priroity is very high.
     I can not really tell you when will SFS support be available but soon.
     Would you pleas give us some of the requirement?"


Isn't there a Share Requirement for this support?  If there is, perhaps
someone could post it here.

Please notice that this is cross-posted to the IBMTCP and SFS list.


Steve Roder
(tkssteve@ubvm.bitnet | tkssteve@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu | (716)645-3564
From: J.G.Bryan@bham.ac.uk (Graham Bryan)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.sfs-l
Subject: QUERY LIMITS
Date: 9 Nov 92 19:52:53 GMT
Organization: The University of Birmingham, England

In the shared  file system directory that  I use I have  a total of
1071 files  in 64 directories.  If I use CSL  calls to look  at the
size of each file and sum over the whole directory  subtree I get a
total value of 4036 4K block.

If I then do QUERY LIMITS to  enquire about the same hierarchy I am
given a figure of 4519 4K Block Committed.

To save you doing the maths this is a difference of 483 4K block or
about 1.7K characters  per entry. To my way of  thinking this seems
to be quite a lot, any comments???

Note: I did a quick test a  another hierarchy (with a much 'richer'
      structure  and  the figures  still  came  out at  about  1.3K
      'extra' characters per entry.
From: J.G.Bryan@bham.ac.uk (Graham Bryan)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.sfs-l
Subject: Re: FTP Server support for SFS
Date: 9 Nov 92 19:54:18 GMT
Organization: The University of Birmingham, England

>Ladies and Gentlemen;
>
>     I recently sent an inquiry to a member of TCPIP Development about
>when we might see server support for Shared Files in FTP.  Here is the
>reply I received:
>
>
>    "Steven,  we are looking into this and priroity is very high.
>     I can not really tell you when will SFS support be available but soon.
>     Would you pleas give us some of the requirement?"
>
>
>Isn't there a Share Requirement for this support?  If there is, perhaps
>someone could post it here.
>
>Please notice that this is cross-posted to the IBMTCP and SFS list.
>
>
>Steve Roder
>(tkssteve@ubvm.bitnet | tkssteve@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu | (716)645-3564
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We were involved  in the Early support program for  VM/ESA 1.0 back
in early 1991  and Shared FileSystem Support within  TCP/IP was one
of the  issues that we  raised. The  reply from IBM  (when filtered
back through many many layers of  the IBM hierarchy appeared to be)
'we're working on it'.

We got  the source for TCP/IP  and wrote our own  patch. There were
some problems as  the CP 'surrogate' user  diagnose didn't interact
with the SFS support 'correctly' (although this is now fixed in ESA
1.1) so we had to enroll the FTP servers as a SFS administrator and
do our own file access checking.

Note: I know that there is at least one other site that has taken a
      similar sort of approach after  getting little or no joy from
      IBM

The code we developed isn't perfect (it hangs up every month or so)
but in general it gets the job done.

Starting from  scratch it took  me about  three weeks to  write and
test  our mods  (including re-learning  how to  program in  PASCAL,
trying to  work out how the  original code worked, and  running the
rest of the  ESP trials). Why it  has taken so long for  IBM to get
even   an   'intermediate'   solution   together   is   beyond   my
understanding.

+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Graham Bryan                      Voice:    (UK) 021-414-3990      |
| Systems Support Group             Fax:      (UK) 021-414-3952      |
| Computing Service (Elms Road),    Janet:    J.G.Bryan @ UK.AC.BHAM |
| The University of Birmingham,     Internet: J.G.Bryan @ bham.ac.uk |
| PO Box 363, Edgbaston,                                             |
| Birmingham (B15 2TT),                                              |
| England                                                            |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.sfs-l
Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1992 17:16:13 EST
From:         Scott Nettleship <NETTLE@GDLVM7.VNET.IBM.COM>
Subject:      QUERY LIMITS

>In the shared  file system directory that  I use I have  a total of
>1071 files  in 64 directories.  If I use CSL  calls to look  at the
>size of each file and sum over the whole directory  subtree I get a
>total value of 4036 4K block.
>
>If I then do QUERY LIMITS to  enquire about the same hierarchy I am
>given a figure of 4519 4K Block Committed.
>
>To save you doing the maths this is a difference of 483 4K block or
>about 1.7K characters  per entry. To my way of  thinking this seems
>to be quite a lot, any comments???
>
>Note: I did a quick test a  another hierarchy (with a much 'richer'
>      structure  and  the figures  still  came  out at  about  1.3K
>      'extra' characters per entry.

In all likelyhood you are seeing from the CSL routines the number of
data blocks being reflected, but in QUERY LIMITS you are also seeing
the system pointer blocks as well.  For every file over 4k, there is at
least 1 extra pointer block associated with the file.  This is the
same as the minidisk structure (EDF).  The bigger the file gets, the
the more pointer blocks you may see.  The number you quoted is not at
all outrageous.

In VM/ESA 1.1 and up, the DMSEXIST and DMSGETDI routines return
data blocks and system blocks as separate values so you can figure
this out if you like.  If you have a copy of my QSPACE EXEC (posted to
SFS-L) you will notice I approximate this behavior by adding in 1 block
into the calculations when the file was greater than 1 block.  Not perfect,
but gives a much closer value.

You can see this in evidence by doing a "QSPACE . (TREE" for the
whole filespace and see the difference for the filespace vs. the
calculations being done by the exec for each file.  Anyway, I
hope this clears up the confusion.

Scott Nettleship
Internet: NETTLE@GDLVM7.VNET.IBM.COM
IBMMAIL:  USIB2WF7 at IBMMAIL

Joke of the day: Why don't blind people bungee jump??
                 It scares the heck out of the dog....
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.domain-l
Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1992 18:16:15 EST
From:         Roger Fajman <RAF@NIHCU.BITNET>
Subject: Re: New tag for DOMAIN NAMES
Comments: cc: HANK@VM.BIU.AC.IL

> The proposed new tag would be called
>
> :netdata. YES | NO
>
> YES would indicate that the system listed as :gateway. can accept Netdata
>     files
>
> NO would indicate that the system listed as :gateway. can not accept
>    Netdata files.
>
> The default would be NO.  That means if you leave everything alone, you
> don't need to do anything.  If you upgrade to Mailer 2.09 then you should
> update your entry in DOMAIN NAMES to be :netdata.YES

DOMAIN NAMES currently uses a subset of the old BITEARN NODES tag
format, with the addition of a couple of tags like :interconnect to
provide information that is not in BITEARN NODES.  Given that that is
the case, it seems to me to make sense to do one of two things:

(1) Continue in the tradition of the old BITEARN NODES tags and use the
:mformat (mail format) tag.  So it would be :mformat:NETDATA.

(2) Convert BITEARN NODES to the new tags.  The :serversnn tag is quite
adequate to express this already.

Roger Fajman                                   Telephone:  +1 301 402 1246
National Institutes of Health                  BITNET:     RAF@NIHCU
Bethesda, Maryland, USA                        Internet:   RAF@CU.NIH.GOV
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Delivery-Notice:  SMTP MAIL FROM does not correspond to sender.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.domain-l
Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1992 15:45:13 IST
From:         Hank Nussbacher <HANK@VM.BIU.AC.IL>
Subject:      New tag for DOMAIN NAMES
Comments: cc: xmailer@bitnic.BITNET

Eric has informed me that V2.09 of Mailer will allow the passing of mail
via Netdata, which will eliminate the folding at column 80 problem.
The problem is that there are certain gateways listed in DOMAIN NAMES
which are not listed in BITEARN NODES.  Since we do not want systems
rejecting mail left and right, the only thing to do is create a new
tag which will indicate whether this system can accept Netdata format
SMTP mail.

The proposed new tag would be called

:netdata. YES | NO

YES would indicate that the system listed as :gateway. can accept Netdata
    files

NO would indicate that the system listed as :gateway. can not accept
   Netdata files.

The default would be NO.  That means if you leave everything alone, you
don't need to do anything.  If you upgrade to Mailer 2.09 then you should
update your entry in DOMAIN NAMES to be :netdata.YES

How does this sound?  Will a new tag harm any programs out there?
The new tag would appear after :interconnect.

Hank

P.S.  Please follow-up only on the domain-l list.  Thanks.
From: jwagner@PRINCETON.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.domain-l
Subject: Re: New tag for DOMAIN NAMES
Date: 12 Nov 92 19:34:04 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
              12 Nov 92 15:45:13 +0700. <9211121405.AA26540@Princeton.EDU>

> Eric has informed me that V2.09 of Mailer will allow the passing of mail
> via Netdata, which will eliminate the folding at column 80 problem.
> The problem is that there are certain gateways listed in DOMAIN NAMES
> which are not listed in BITEARN NODES.  Since we do not want systems
> rejecting mail left and right, the only thing to do is create a new
> tag which will indicate whether this system can accept Netdata format
> SMTP mail.
>
> ... text deleted
>
> The default would be NO.  That means if you leave everything alone, you
> don't need to do anything.  If you upgrade to Mailer 2.09 then you should
> update your entry in DOMAIN NAMES to be :netdata.YES

Hank, It seems to me you have three classes of mailer addresses in DOMAIN
NAMES:

1. userid@node   where a matching userid@node mailer is defined in BITEARN
                 NODES

2. userid@node   where no matching mailer is defined

3. SMTP@INTERBIT

Class 1 can be labeled automatically (by using the format field of the
MAIL servers tag.  If this field contains 'ND' then :netdata.YES should be
supplied in DOMAIN NAMES. This would be preferable to having to submit two
updates requests (even if it meant a months delay in propogation).

Class 2 needs a manual update. Do you actually have any in this category? If
so, I would suggest having them add the mailer to their :servers information
(you can specify more than one) and converting these addresses to class 1.

Class 3 should always be :netdata.NO until support for NETDATA is made a
requirement for being an interbit gateway.

   John
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1992 16:21:11 EST
From:         "Joseph P. Riolo" <riolo@COR4.PICA.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: Re: deaf wish

Lew,

>     But to wish for a child to be born deaf is something else.
>     No matter how you rationalize it, you are saying that your feelings
>and your language are more important than the best interests of your future
>children -- who, if they are born deaf (as you desire), will face a
>lifetime of struggle, frustration, deprivation, discrimination, isolation,
>underachievement and other disadvantages which they would not encounter if
>they were born hearing.
>     Life is tough enough without the added burden of deafness.
>     I wouldn't wish that on anyone -- least of all my own children.

      It is fine with me that you want to think that way.  You cherish what
you believe in.  I just feel a little sad that you continue to think that way.
It is just sad - very sad - that you continue to think that deafness is one
of the causes of these problems and that deafness is an added burden to a
person who has it, family, and society.  But, again, you have the right
to think the way you want to think.  You have the right to set up your
system of values to guide your thoughts and life.  I do likewise.  So...
live and let live.

                                        Joseph P. Riolo
                                        <riolo@pica.army.mil>
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 20:26:26 +0200
From:         Omer Zak <XLACHA1@WEIZMANN.WEIZMANN.AC.IL>
Subject:      Re: deaf wish

I agree that it is perverted to wish that your own child which is born
to you and your spouse be deaf.
On the other hand, given that a child has been born deaf, I (and several
others) believe that it would be better for the child to have been born
into the Deaf culture (deaf parents or hearing parents who sign and
are immersed in the Deaf culture).

There is one case in which the above statements don't contradict each
other:  suppose you want to have a child but cannot bear children due
to any reason, and are considering adoption of children.

If you and your spouse are Deaf, what would you rather adopt?  A normally
hearing child or a deaf child?

I had, on the other day, a chat with a friend who is in this situation.
He told me that he and his wife considered adopting a deaf baby.  However
nowadays most of the deaf babies have also other defects and the couple
didn't cherish the idea of adopting a mentally retarded child.

Anyone with stories about adopting deaf babies?
                                                       --- Omer
From: sethg@SILVER.LCS.MIT.EDU ((Seth Gordon))
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Subject: Technicolor Captions
Date: 11 Nov 92 03:40:34 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
              message of Sat,
              7 Nov 1992 22:37:57 -0600 <9211080437.AA28129@silver.lcs.mit.edu>

One of the dorms at the Learning Center has the Zenith TV with the
built-in decoder.  (Zenith has been making these since *before*
the mandatory-decoder-chip law was passed).  Sometimes, when the
TV signal is fuzzy, the TV flashes garbled captions in a variety
of colors--blue, purple, etc.  But "standard" captions are always
white-on-black or black-on-yellow.

What's going on?  Have the US captioning standards been amended
to allow for multi-colored or multi-font captions?
--
seth gordon ... <sethg@silver.lcs.mit.edu>   ... .sig under construction;
mit bs '91  ... learning ctr 4 deaf children ... pardon the inconvenience
From: annie@PSYCHE.MIT.EDU ((Annie Senghas))
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Subject: Re: Lipreading
Date: 5 Nov 92 23:59:53 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

Henry Asks:

HA> I have a question for you, Barry.  Would you assume that I'm one of the
HA> deaf people who can't lipread, just because a statistics test (e.g., ANOVA)
HA> shows that the majority of the deaf people can't lipread?

Careful how you interpret your statistics, Henry!  Would you assume
that I'm one of the Americans who doesn't live in New England, just
because an ANOVA shows that the majority of Americans don't live
in New England?

Actually, these types of statistics can be interesting (how many deaf
people succeed with the oral method only or with bilingualism, for
example).  They are particularly interesting if they are predictive.
Then they can be very useful.  For example, children who succeed at
task X are more apt to successfully acquire skill Y.  But they can be
scary, too, especially in malicious or predjudiced hands.  Look what's
happened with IQ test statistics.  (If you think measuring lipreading
success is tricky, try measuring something as slippery as general
intelligence!)

-Annie
(annie@psyche.mit.edu)
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 14:07:43 -0600
From:         /PN=JUDY.TINGLEY/O=DEAFTEK/ADMD=TELEMAIL/C=US/@SPRINT.COM
Subject:      RE: 60 Minutes, Angels and Outcasts, etc

 <"GGJC-5506-8828/36"*/PN=JUDY.TINGLEY/O=DEAFTEK/ADMD=TELEMAIL/C=US/@sprint.com>

My first venture out on Deaf-L and apparently I should have not been so brief
in my question as to the present age of the child and whether anything was
said about meningitis as a cause of deafness.  Let me go into a little more
detail by first explaining that I am deaf due to meningitis at the age of 17,
worked for a time at Symbion Inc in Salt Lake City, at that time the manu-
facturers and distributor of the Ineraid CI.  During that time I met most of
the people with their implant, as well as a large number of others.  I had the
opportunity to learn from their experience over a period of time and concuded
that there are some genuine benefits and some genuinely excited people with
a CI.  I have also had the opportunity to observe some deaf children with
implants from various sources, coming from a variety of family situations, and
with varying degrees of success.  My question then as to the present age of
the child was to get a sense of her maturity and ability to express her own
feelings.  As for the comment about meningitis, the literature on etiology and
CI's is very clear that it is more difficult to predict benefits of a CI when
meningitis is the cause of hearing loss...I know from personal and professional
experience how easy it is for the lay person to see one person succeed and
think it will be uniformly true for everyone else having the same cause of
hearing loss.  In the case of meningitis, that aint so!  And I would hope that
a program such as that would be pretty darned careful not to imply that all
children deafened by meningitis can expect the same outcome.

I have other opinions on the subject but just wanted to respond (exhaustively
perhaps!) to the two questions I raised because anyone reading ill-intent in
them is mistaken.
From: 31babik@gw.wmich.edu
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Subject: Re:      Re: Deafness CURE!
Date: 12 Nov 92 19:44:35 EST
Organization: Western Michigan University

David,

Reading your post made me smile.  When I got my first set of hearing aids, 
it had been so long since I'd heard many things that I forgot they made 
noise!

I rediscovered that copy machines make noise, that the sound I heard while 
driving was me driving over a loose manhole cover, and that people tapping
on their desks with pens/pencils/rulers was REALLY annoying!

Oh...and when my dad gave me a big ole sloppy wet kiss on the side of my 
head (pretty much right by my hearing aid)...and it was just about the 
grossest sound I'd ever heard!

I wish you peace and good luck!

Lisamarie
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 15:00:22 -0500
Comments:     Warning -- RSCS tag indicates an origin of 11CWATT@GALLUA1
From:         "Keith Watt - Gallaudet Dept. of Education"
              <11CWATT@GALLUA.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: deaf wish

Marvin -

>Ok, Bosco... (what kind of name is that, anyway?!)

>Your remarks is very ethnocentristic, and it sickens me
>to see you taking the so-called high road here...

Easy here.  Issues are one thing, but this was a bit of a personal attack.
In debate, you fight the ideas, not the person.  I may support what you say,
but the way you say it gets us nowhere.

Cool off, relax, and grab a cold one, eh?

Keith


===============================================================================
Keith Watt                              |
Gallaudet University                    | "Exit, pursued by a bear."
Department of Education                 |     Stage direction in Shakespeare's
                                        |     _The Winter's Tale_ (1611)
BITNET:                                 |
11CWATT@GALLUA.BITNET                   |
===============================================================================
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 22:18:28 EDT
From:         EGALE@KENTVM.BITNET
Subject:      Re: cochlear implants

I don't mean to pick on Lane but I totally agree with the statement that
questions if Lane stoped to think about how much money he made from his
books about Deafness.  The ironic thing is he has poor signing skills and
is making more money than any other researcher in this field.  Just so
happens that he is very slick with words and can get the message across in
a way that people want to get it.