From: viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson)
Subject: Re: Fantasies vs. Ethics
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 01:34:27 GMT

linan@argon.berkeley.edu (Mike Linan) writes:

[ much deleted -- we seem to agree and you've read it before ]

>That you may have come to a different under-
>standing or interpretation is great for discussion but, I am not in any
>position to tell you whether your interpretation is any more right or 
>wrong than mine.  I have no reason to not believe that God indeed made
>the world in six 24-hours days as said for example.  

	Point taken, but I also hope that you realize we are all called
upon to study and interpret the "Word" and make up our own minds.  Free
agency and all that.  I am not a theologian, and feel no calling to
be a priest or anything (though many seem to feel I am destined to be
in such a position), but it is my opinion that each verse can and does
hold a different meaning for each person, and this is good.  I've read
the Koran as well, and feel that the Moslems are my brothers, just as
the Catholics, Protestants, and Jesuits are.  Interpretations can cause
much conflict, but in dealing with a diety who chooses to put his words
in such loose language it behooves us to study and choose our own path.

>The Bible tells us to obey man's laws as long as they are not in conflict
>with God's laws (my interpretation).  

	Indeed.  "Give unto Caesar what is Caesar's, and give unto God
what is Gods." or something like that.  Note also, for the purposes of
this newsgroup, that God also commanded the sacrifice of various critters
on his behalf.  Were various groups to have their way, neither the wine
of the sacraments nor the sacrifical lamb would be possible.  I merely
point this out as <ahem> food for thought.

>>	I suggest the real question is, if this happened to Russ and he
>>told you about it, would you believe him?  There was once a man by the
>>name of Joseph Smith, who lived in Nauvoo, Illinois.  He was killed for
>>precisely this same reason, as the story goes.  You know his movement
>>as the Mormons.


>As I have said to Russell, it doesn't matter whether I believe him or he
>or the rest of the world believes me.  For example in the Book of Genesis
>it is told that God came to Abraham and told him that he must kill his 
>only son Issac.  Abraham did not understand and certainly did not want to
>do this.  However, Abraham's love and trust for God was such that he in 
>the act of doing what God commanded when God stopped him.  This was a test
>of Abrahams faith and he has proven his love.  Had God not stopped him he
>might have face the wrath of man for this deed and may have ended up sac-
>rificing his freedom or life for following God.  

	An omnipotent and omnipresent God would not have needed to let
Abraham go this far, since it would have been apparent that Abraham was
willing to make this sacrifice long before he actually raised the knife.
That He apparently did raises all sorts of questions I cannot answer.

>Would you think this 
>sacrifice would be of great consequence if you knew what God had in store
>for Abraham for the rest of eternity?  Do you think what the rest of man-
>kind thought of his act mattered to Abraham in view of the fact that he 
>had God's approval?  

	Being a dead servant makes one a martyr, but being alive merely
makes one miserable.  Neither is attractive.  I contend that the faith
shown by Abraham was worth it to him, and probably not to society as
it was known at that time.  In this case, there are parallels to the
AR argument in our present society, but one must note that being a
martyr matters not the least to those who don't believe as you do.

>Since we don't have the
>answers, one can only go on the word of God and faith.  I am not foolish
>enough to expect everybody to accept this and some may think I am foolish
>for believing.

	On the contrary, I commend you for your resolve.  However, I do
expect you to give leeway to those of different faiths, for how can you
as a mere human know the ultimate will of God and know that you are
correct in your interpretation?  Thus, I figure others may actually be
right, and while I don't believe this to be so, I will accommodate them
as best I can.  This means not only avoiding the serving of pork to a
Moslem, it means not serving wine to a Mormon or meat on Friday to a
Catholic.  In addition, it also means revising my habits as my studies
bring new insights.  So far as I can tell, killing animals is fine so
far as the scriptural Law allows.  That I do not have to do it does
not conflict with this law, nor do the moral opinions of Russel
(used as an example only).

	One would do well to remember that General Patton read the
Bible daily, and was responsible for the deaths of many thousands
of people, and also viewed killing them as rightous work for which
he would be rewarded.  He also believed he had been reincarnated.
The proof is in your faith, but don't overlook the beliefs of
others are "wrong" or "irrellevant," for they just might be as
strongly held as your own, and quite possibly "true," in the
opinions of the Diety you pray to.

	For the athiests out there, I'm sorry for the theological
arguments, but I trust your own set of beliefs are represented
here, and I hope you also take note of what I've said.

<Dan Sorenson, DoD #1066 |"There'll be angels on Ariels in leather>
<z1dan@exnet.iastate.edu | and chrome, Ridin' down from heaven    >
<viking@iastate.edu      | just to carry me home." -- R. Thompson >
< ISU thinks I need more education, which they provide for a fee. >