From: mjw@ocf.berkeley.edu (Marshall Wang)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Robert Jordan's "THE SHADOW RISING" (SPOILERS)
Date: 8 Oct 1992 07:39:16 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
NNTP-Posting-Host: bigbang.berkeley.edu

SPOILERS BELOW!  Don't read any furthur unless you've read the book.

>  I thought it was sort of neat how Rand has a forsaken to teach him
>  now. First time Rand has shown the intelligence that marked him as
>  a resurrection of the Dragon. Until now it was alot of power and
>  word play.

I guess I felt kind of cheated when the main villain for the first three
books turned out to be Ishmael instead of Shai'tan at the end of 
"The Dragon Reborn".  It lends credibility, however slightly, to his
defeats by Rand in the earlier books.

>  I felt like slapping Nynaeve for letting the Forsaken get away.
>  Elayne and Nynaeve ARE supposed to be very powerful channelers
>  so I don't see the bit about handling the forsaken as out of line.

I was surpised to find out that there are at least three female
Forsakens.  Nynaeve is starting to get on my nerve, for some reason.
By the way, I have a feeling (hoping?) that she and Elayne won't get
out of Tanchico that easily.

>>>  The history aspect was pretty nice, I liked how we find out so much
>>>  about the Aiel (the linking w/ the Tuathanan should have been obvious,
>>>  but I missed it completely).  On the other hand, it demistifyies them,
>>>  and they were my favorite people.
>>    I liked this alot.  I'd forgotten what the Tuathanan were like so I
>>  didn't make the connection until Perrin saw them again.

This is the first glimps of the world before and during the Breaking,
and I find it to be absolutely fascinating.  I wouldn't have mind if
we had stayed longer in the past.

>  As for Perrin, I sort of disliked that portion, except for the incident
>  with Lord Luc (who is Rand's brother?!?, raised in the Blight and serving
>  shadow - what future confrontation have we here?).

From the hints dropped in the book, I think Lord Luc is the brother of 
Tigraine (the Queen of Andor before Morgase).  He supposedly disappeared
into the Blight.  Also, didn't Lan has a cousin who also disappeared into
the Blight?  That would fit with the man in the dream world.  How they are
tied together is beyond me.  

Also from the hints, it seems that Rand's real mother _is_ Tigraine.  I
remember someone saying that she disappeared into the Aiel Waste.  This
would mean that Rand's half-brother is Galad!  It also makes him a prince.  
(Wouldn't his relationship with Elayne be complicated by this?  They 
narrowly missed being blook relatives.)  Since I don't have the first two
books handy, could someone clarify the relationship between Tigraine and
Morgase?  How are they related to the royal houses in Cairhien and their
civil war?  What about Moraine?

>>   I was very surprised about what happened at the White Tower.  Siuan isn't
>> going to get her powers back, though.  I believe Egewene will be the next
>> Amyrlin seat.  Min sees Gawyn bow to her and Perrin sees Nynaeve and Elayne
>> and other women (don't remember if they were specifically Aes Sedai) bowing
>> to her as well.
> Egwene will get the Amyrlin seat, I agree. There was that little dream
> portion Rand/Perrin/or Mat had when the sky was showing pictures; Egwene
> with a scared expression on her face (or worried expression) surrounded
> by bowing Aes Sedai (or at least Nynaeve was visible and Elayne's hair
> was glimpsed in the crowd).

Could someone tell me where this was shown?  I don't remember this scene.

>>>  The ending was not satisfactory, I find it hard to believe Lanfear didn't
>>>  even bother searching the area for the woman-half of that super-angreal,
>>>  take the one from Rand, kill Asmodeus, try to contact Shaitan, etc.
>>>  Asmodeus seemed pretty wimpy as well, although I guess thats his
>>>  character.  And how did that other Aiel-psuedo-chief get the markings

Lanfear wants Asmodeus to stay and teach Rand, so she doesn't want to
kill him.  And if she is helping Rand, I doubt that she would contact
Shaitan to tell him what she'd done.  I get the impression that
Shaitan has no idea what any of the Forsaken is up to.  In fact, he
hasn't done anything at all, either directly or indirectly.

>Lanfear had her name mentioned. Was it mentioned before? What was the name of
>the wife of Lews Therin Telamon that the Dragon was looking for in the Prelude
>to the Eye of the World? (the first book)

Lanfear's name is mentioned in the last flashback sequence while Rand 
was in Rhuidean.

> the conflict). (that of course encompasses the possibilities)  Anyway,
> what I'm trying to say is its obvious she's important to Rand and possesses
> a great deal of power. After all she was the one who made the Bore into
> the Dark One's prison (and started this entire mess).

This makes me wonder who the three women Min saw around Rand are.  Was she
lying when she told the Amyrlin Seat that she couldn't see the other two
faces?  The first two are most definitely Min and Elayne.  I had always
thought that the third is Egwene, but now, it could be Aviendha, or even
Lanfear.

>>>  All in all, I feel the entire series is moving more towards formulae
>>>  than originality now.  I hope I'm wrong.
>>> parik rao						       prao@cs.ucsb.edu
>>    I still thought it was a great book and can't wait for the others to come
>>out.  These are all just my honest opinions and are open to discussion, but
>>no flames please.
>>			Shane L. Bell
>>			bell@ecs.umass.edu 
>
> While it is sad that this is the predictable way books tend to go, I think
> the reason for this is that the number of emotionally satisfying heroic
> endings is sort of few....

IMHO, I think this is as good as the first three.  However, I would have
no problem if Rand really goes mad and dies in the end.  Seeing him going
crazy was... interesting to watch in the last book.  He seems to have 
recovered here, though.  But, considering how long this serie is, I don't
think that's going to happen.

Too bad it's going to be another year before the next book comes out... 

						Marshall Wang
						mjw@ocf.berkeley.edu