HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni)
Subject: Re: Say it ain't so
Organization: The Department of Redundancy Department
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 92 01:04:20 GMT

In article <Bxw4LD.MGC@world.std.com> srm@world.std.com (Stevens R Miller) writes:

>You're right, David, but Nelson was not giving testimony.  There is no
>obligation to answer police questions or even (generally) to tell the police
>the truth.

You must've graduated near the top of your law school class.  
Or the bottom, depending on how one looks at it.

>Also, Nelson denies having ever made a confession.  

He seems to have taken your advice.

Debating you is probably a waste of time.  You are much more
interested in arguing for the sake of argument than seeking justice
for crazy Hasidic Jews in Brooklyn, who, you seem to think, don't
deserve any constitutional protections at all.  If you cared about
justice at all you might be calling for an investigation into the
one-sided riots that lasted for 3 days with a positively lazy police
response, and a killing that is left unsolved with nary a suspect in
sight and not a peep from the Dinkins administration for the killer to
be brought to justice.  Instead, you have focused on trying to justify
the jury's odd finding, despite the evidence, that a
racially-motivated conspiracy brought Lemrick Nelson into court, and 
not a murder.  Now you tell us that there is no obligation to tell the
truth to the police.  How pathetic. 


-- 
Jake Livni  jake@bony1.bony.com              10 years from now, George Bush will
American-Occupied New York                   have replaced Jimmy Carter as the
My opinions only - employer has no opinions. standard of a failed President.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: d_ellis@ricks.enet.dec.com (David Ellis  20-Nov-1992 0830)
Subject: Re: Bobby Fischer's anti-semitism
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 05:30:31 PST
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leonid@spss.com (Leonid Feygin) writes:

> Minor comment on Kasparov's ethnicity: Gary Kasparov is actually 
> half-Armenian, half-Jewish.  (His late father was Jewish.)

Which makes him _not_ a Jew, according to Jewish tradition.

There is no such thing as "half-Jewish".  The last time a man told me he was
half Jewish, I asked him, "Really?  Which side were you circumcised on, the 
left or the right side?"  [true story -- his initials are K.T.  He was amused
by my remark, but I would not recommend repeating it.] 

----
David  J  Ellis
Digital Equipment Corporation, Semiconductor Engineering Group 
Mailstop HLO2-3/D11 
77 Reed Road, Hudson MA 01749  
(508) 568-4393 
Internet: d_ellis@ricks.enet.dec.com
From: stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger)
Subject: Re: Conversion Question
Organization: Summit NJ
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 01:01:33 GMT

dmitry khaikin writes:
>Stan Krieger writes:
>>Isaac Balbin writes:
>>>Stan Krieger writes:
>>
>>
>>I really don't give a damn ...
>
>That's what you should have put in the beginning of your post, so
>everyone can just skip it. Because I really do give a damn what you
>think and feel, so, I can understand things better and maybe try to open
>your eys a little. That's the only reason why I even take time to write
>all this. I do care alot about all Jews, that's jews - not goyim that
>think they are jews, apperently you think by not "giving a damn" you care. 

What do you mean "goyim who think they're Jews"?  If you're talking
about people who chose to convert to Judaism according to the
procedures that have been established, that for some technical
reason, you (the great sage) don't recognize, then you have a lot
of growing up and soul searching to do.  When you recite the Al Chet's
next Yom Kippur, realize that they apply to you too, especially when
"you" turn away someone that most of us have accepted.

>>As I've often said,
>>if you don't want to recite Kaddish in a Conservative synagogue,
>>that's your right, but it's not your right to advise someone that the
>>mitzvah wasn't met because they recited Kaddish in a minyan of 6 other
>>men and 3 or more women.....

>Oh, great! Now Jews are taken away the right to advise another Jew about
>Judaism. I am sorry, but does that imply that you can do whatever you
>want and no one can tell you that it is wrong?

Very simply, it is not "wrong" to recite Kaddish in a group of 10
adults (male or female) to fulfil the mitzvah; therefore to "advise"
someone that Kaddish recited under such circumstances in "wrong" is
NOT "advising" another Jew about Judaism; rather, it is an attempt
to force the teachings of just one sect onto affiliates of other
equally legitimate sects.
-- 
Stan Krieger                 All opinions, advice, or suggestions, even
UNIX System Laboratories     if related to my employment, are my own.
Summit, NJ
smk@usl.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: solovay@netcom.com (Andrew M. Solovay)
Subject: Re: goy
Organization: Smiley Abolition Front
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 19:38:21 GMT

In article <1992Nov23.155429.7201@sarah.albany.edu> mark@fenris.albany.edu (Mark Steinberger) writes:
>In article <92327.2342272893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> andy <2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> writes:
>>Would you not object to words like kyke, hymie, heeb etc?  
>
>These words are different, in that they are directed at a particular
>group.
>
>Also, "kike" and "hymie" were always slurs. There is no legitimate
>word behind any of these but Hebe.

Even better example: "Yid", the Yiddish word for "Jew". Most
goyim (and many Jews) know this word *only* as a slur and a
derogatory term; they think it's on a par with "nigger". But I
still use it, in expressions like "shayner Yid" or "was machst a
Yid". I sometimes have to explain the usage, but it's a perfectly
good word.

Like "goy".
-- 
Andrew Michael Solovay    

"When angry, count four. When very angry, swear."
                --Mark Twain
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: isaac@etrog.se.citri.edu.au (Isaac Balbin)
Subject: Re: Women saying Kaddish
Organization: Collaborative Information Technology Research Institute
Date: 23 Nov 92 01:06:19 GMT

I have seen this for years in Australia! and they say
*we* are backwards!

Practically speaking there is always at least one male saying
kaddish, and the females who have said it simply say it from the
women's gallery in unison.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Subject: Re: Conversion Question
Organization: AT&T
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 13:11:09 GMT

In article <FAIGIN.92Nov18142024@soldan.aero.org> faigin@aero.org
(Daniel P. Faigin) writes:

>Orthodox Jews have certain beliefs that differ from their liberal bretheran;
>these belief differences lead to schisms that some believe to be irreparable.
>However, by taking these schisms as absolutes, we prevent any resolution. We
>must respect the fact that it can never hurt to treat a person who claims to
>be Jewish as Jewish (regardless of the conversion), it can never hurt to
>calmly teach the differences. If the person is not "adequately Jewish" in the
>eyes of one movement, then providing education will alert the person to the
>fact, and they will choose -- without any prodding from you -- to do what is
>right if they want to be associated with that movement. If not, they will
>serve God in whatever way they can.

What you fail to realize (accept?) is that there are (and throughout
history have been) Jews for howm our religion is critical and that for
these people it _is_ wrong to treat a non-Jew as a Jew (as far as
religious obligation, ritual, etc is concerned).

Further, beyond the issue of fair treatment of your fellow Jews, isn't
it also unfair to those non-Jews who, under false pretenses, now think
they are Jews?
-- 
Sam Saal      kingfish!saal OR saal@kingfish.att.com
	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,misc.headlines,talk.politics.misc,soc.culture.african-american,misc.legal
From: jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni)
Subject: Re: Say it ain't so
Organization: The Department of Redundancy Department
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 23:29:57 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.224902.22272@Princeton.EDU> niepornt@bird.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent) writes:
>In <1992Nov16.234229.6724@bony1.bony.com> jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni) says:

>>And when this is in fact proven beyond a reasonable doubt, as it was
>>in the Kahane case, and the jury decides nevertheless to acquit the
>>accused, where has the maximum possibility of a just solution gone to? 
>
>Then it obviously wasn't proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

Rational, reasonable people will agree that the sun will rise
tomorrow.  If a juror says that he doubts it, this doesn't make his
doubt "reasonable".    

Stupid and biased people can be put on jury duty.  It happens all the
time.  In Ollie North's case, they actually had to find a dozen people
in Washington D.C. who hadn't heard of Ollie North or Iran/Contra.
Imagine that! 

>>Obviously.  But when a jury finds something which is entirely out of
>>whack with common sense observations and even with detailed analysis,
>
>But they didn't.

But they did.  This is certainly true in the Kahane case and almost
certainly in the Rosenbaum case.

>>free of the theatrics and manipulations of the courtroom, then the
>>"justice" system is missing out on justice by miles.  When this kind
>>of verdict becomes commonplace, the system is due for a major overhaul. 
>
>Yes.  Let's execute anyone Jake Livini thinks is guilty.  We can save
>lots of money on trials, jails, etc.  It doesn't matter whether 12
>people think that someone did something, based on all the evidence.  We
>can leave it to Jake Livini, based on things he read in the New York Times.

Okay, Mr. Nieporent.  Seeing as you're so sure that the jury finding
is consonant with fact why don't you save some more taxpayers dollars
by stopping the Federal investigation into the Rosenbaum case?  And
while you're at it, abolish the Appellate Courts, too.  Just a waste
of good money, right?  And bring back the death penalty.  Juries never
goof, right? 

-- 
Jake Livni  jake@bony1.bony.com              10 years from now, George Bush will
American-Occupied New York                   have replaced Jimmy Carter as the
My opinions only - employer has no opinions. standard of a failed President.
From: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee)
Subject: Re: Bosnia-Hercegovina
Organization: Johns Hopkins University CS Dept.
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 19:10:09 GMT

In article <2NskuB9w165w@infopls.chi.il.us> chetnik@infopls.chi.il.us (Andre Popov) writes:
>              TRUTH IS THE VICTIM IN BOSNIA

I thought Bosnians were the victim in Bosnia.  You know, "ethnic cleansing"
and all that.

>                     THIS IS NOW
>                            (1992)
>   "Genocide is a natural phenomenon, in harmony with the societal
>and mythologically divine nature. Genocide is not only permitted, it
>is also recommended, even commanded by the word of the Almighty
>Yaweh, whenever it is useful for the survival or the restoration of
>the kingdom of the chosen nation, or for the preservation and the
>spreading of its one and only correct faith.
>                      -Current Croatian President Franjo
>                            Tudjman, from his 1989 book
>                            "Wastelands of Historical Reality"

Whoops, you blew it.  This is so _obviously_ out of context that one can tell
just from looking at the quote itself.

When was the last time you heard any believer refer to his own God as "Yahweh"?
Given the situations where people actually use that word, the above quote is
most likely a third-person description, without approval, of Biblical events
such as killing the Canaanites.

Have we got a Serbian Mutlu here?
--
"the bogosity in a field equals the bogosity imported from related areas, plus
the bogosity generated internally, minus the bogosity expelled or otherwise
disposed of."  -- K. Eric Drexler

Ken Arromdee (arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu, arromdee@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: jgoldber@todah.chem.utoronto.ca (Joel Goldberg)
Subject: Re: Autopsy - Kahane and Rosenbaum
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 04:20:06 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.005516.933@bony1.bony.com> jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni) writes:
>In article <1992Nov11.161001.2799@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca> jgoldber@todah.chem.utoronto.ca (Joel Goldberg) writes:
   This perhaps should be email, as it's only a clarification/nit, but
   I gather (no sarcasm) you were implying something, so I'm doing this
   publically.
>>  Last night on CBC radio's "As it Happens" they interviewed an
>>  Arab-Israeli lawyer, who had just won a case against the government.
>>  The army (Tzahal) had been found to have wrongly caused the death of
>>  one, and the injury of another, Palestinians (non-Israelis). The
>>  government has been ordered to pay compensation. 
>This is what the the news report said.  Now what did you hear?
    The interview was prefaced with a very brief statement of the
  court's decision. The lawyer amplified on it a bit. The interviewer
  tried drawing him out in both directions (pro and anti) but not
  very successfully, as nothing sticks in my mind. A question about
  the likelihood of more Palestinians going to the courts was met
  with what diplomats call cautious optism. The lawyer was actually
  quite matter of fact about the whole thing. Whatever.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: khaikin@mercury.cis.ohio-state.edu (dmitry khaikin)
Subject: Re: Conversion Question
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 19:49:55 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.184142.27360@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger) writes:
>David Charlap writes:
>>Stan Krieger writes:
>
>>>The only nonsense is your head in the sand attitude.  It's time you
>>>recognize the real world.
>
>>Then you should abandon all religion completely.  After all, it's
>>nothing but faith in what can't be observed anyway.
>
>It looks to me that David's comment proves the lesson that we should
>be getting out of Tisha B'Av.  Here is a person, who considers himself
>an observant Jew, advising another Jew to join the atheists because
>the second Jew doesn't feel that David Cherlap's sect is the only
>sect that knows what God expects of us.
>
>I'll repeat it again.  Get your head out of the sand and join the
>real world.

   Well, here you go. You finally found something that got the person so
angry that he said something he should not have. Why don't you celebrate
it by breaking another mitzvah, oh, and don't forget to say that"... it is
just that Orthodox misinterpreted Torah, that's all, it is not that I
don't want to observe anything at all." The only thing that it proves
that David lost his tamper and you were the cause of it.
You can probably reply the same thing to me as you did to David. I don't
know about David, but I am a cohen and it is a sin to deliberately make
a cohen angry (you probably did not know that, did you?), so, don't make
me. I do understand that if you don't care about things like Shabbath,
you would probably care less for this little detail, but I just wanted
to tell you this, so, that you have some jewish basics in your behavior
with other jews. 

BUT when you do get your head out the sand and join the real world, but
not the goyim, go and learn some Torah. It is much better then getting
people angry. 

Thanks,
Dima
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  "A word is worth one coin; silence is worth two."_____ The Talmud.
  "Silence is good everywhere, except in connection with Torah."____ The Zohar.
   khaikin@cis.ohio-state.edu (Dmitry Khaikin, Columbus Ohio, USA)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: solovay@netcom.com (Andrew M. Solovay)
Subject: Re: G-d or G*d?
Organization: Smiley Abolition Front
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 18:35:32 GMT

In article <1efju6INNea0@MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU> starr-daniel@yale.edu (Daniel Starr) writes:
>Now, applying this to the case of respect for HaShem:
>In the English language, we have a perfectly normal word "god" referring
>to a supposed divine entity.  We have books such as "Gods and Godesses of
>Greek Mythology".  This word is used indiscriminately to refer to any
>divine entity.

This is done also in Hebrew. For example, in II Kings 21, Eliyahu
says, "If haShem is elohim, follow Him; and if Baal is, follow
him." In this context, "elohim" is clearly being used as a title
("meaning "supreme god"), and not as a name (which is why I
didn't capitalize it, nor mutate it).
-- 
Andrew Michael Solovay    

"We know that Solovay is a misogynist and an idiot..."
                --Melinda Shore
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Subject: Re: Vatican Recognition of Israel - Who Needs
Organization: AT&T
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 13:48:36 GMT

In article <1992Nov23.005200.6861@nysernet.org> astein@nysernet.org
(Alan Stein) writes:

>The Vatican's refusal up until now to establish diplomatic relations
>with Israel is a sign of its own hypocracy and moral bankruptcy, as
>well as the theological difficulty in coming to grips with the
>reestablishment of the Jewish state.

>Israel should make no concessions in order to gain Vatican
>recognition;  on the contrary, it is the Vatican which should be
>offering apologies and concessions to Israel.

I agree with this and would like to point out a few things I believe the
Vatican should do before establishing ties with Israel.

Titus' arch depicts people carrying the Temple's Menorah from Israel to
Rome.  As the successor to that regime, it has long been suspected that
among the treasures of the Vartican is that Menorah.  The Vatican has
never confirmed or denied it has the Menorah or other treasures from
the Temple.  To be fair, the Vatican's collection may well still be
uncatalogued.  The collection should be catalogued (I know a few
unemployed librarians, some in Israel who could help) and objects of
Jewish ownership returned.

The Vatican owns one of the oldest copies of the Talmud.  Some years
ago they allowed a small group of Jews to see the copy.  The Jews were
not allowed to take notes or to make any copies of the text.  The Rabbi
that was chosen to view this invaluable copy was chosen because of his
photographic memory and his ability to view something for a short time
then to write, from memory, exactly what he had seen.  This copy of the
Talmud should be returned to Israel.

Europe, under Catholic control, confiscated plenty of Jewish property in
addition to books.  At the very least, the Vatican must return its Judaica
collection to Jewish control.  Even the most anti-Zionist of Jews accept
that Israeli libraries or museums would be the appropriate place for
them.
-- 
Sam Saal      kingfish!saal OR saal@kingfish.att.com
	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Conversion Question
Date: 20 Nov 92 05:05:14 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

>In article <75446@hydra.gatech.EDU> gus@prism.gatech.EDU (gus Baird) writes:
>
>>I generally am silent wrt your practice, but please realize that
>>your victim's rendering does NOT violate the commandment.  He did not
>>utter the name, but rather the job title.  There have been many (false)
>>"god"s, and J* did not command that the generic title be respected, but
>>rather that His own name not be taken in vain.

I would like to know exactly what commandment this is?  What law is it
which states that a person cannot write out the Name of God?  It is rather
confusing because throughout the O.T., the Name of God is written out, as
well as His other Names and other references to Him.

Anisa
From: ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Nazi propaganda on this net
Date: 19 Nov 92 15:41:01 GMT
Organization: Math department, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, ISRAEL

In article <2835@israel.nysernet.org> warren@nysernet.org writes:
>The statement in my signature is not my motto.
> Gideon often ends postings with "Shalom" which certainly is not his.
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

The above Warren's statement is bad.

Shalom   is defenitely an idea I am strongly support.

But unless Warren I do consider Jewish existance in the land of Israel

as part of the  shalom idea.

WARENS statement in his signature (" Adif tzav pinui metzav shmoneh.")
express a Nazi idea.

"It is better to expell Jews than to resist the Arabs "

Saying that the  statement he is using is not a motto , does not
change the situation.

Warren is using this Jewish net in order to distribute a Nazi
propaganda! We should oppose such a propaganda no metter who is the
distributer.

>--
>/|/-\/-\          Adif tzav pinui metzav shmoneh.
> |__/__/_/        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> |warren@
>/ nysernet.org                             Jerusalem

Shalom    Gideon Ehrlich          ERETS YISRAEL
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: baker@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Andrew Baker)
Subject: Re: goy
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 20:32:10 GMT

In article <92328.1349192893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> andy <2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> writes:
>I am well aware that the word "Jew" can be used in a derogatory way. Unlike
>kike or hymie the word "Jew" is not intrinsically derogatory. The word "goy"
>however is. After your presumptious rant, I don't expect you'll acknowledge
>the difference but it is there nevertheless.

Let's see what Webster has to say:

--------------------
goy \'g<o.>i\ n, pl goy.im \'g<o.>i-<e>m\ or goys (1841)
 [Yiddish, fr. Heb g<o^->y people, nation]
    :GENTILE 1  -- sometimes used disparagingly-- goy.ish \'g<o.>i-ish\ 
    adj
--------------------
shik.sa or shik.se \'shik-s<e>\ n (1892)
 [Yiddish shikse, fem. of sheykets, sheygets non-Jewish boy, fr. Heb
 shege<sv.> blemish, abomination]
    1: a non-Jewish girl -- often used disparagingly . . .
--------------------
kike \'k<i^->k\ n (1904)
 [prob. alter. of kiki, redupl. of -ki common ending of names of Jews who 
lived in Slavic countries]
    :JEW -- usu. taken to be offensive
--------------------

It appears that people in the dictionary business distinguish several
levels of disparagement.  "Goy" is "sometimes" used disparagingly, "shiksa"
is "often" used disparagingly, and "kike" is "usually" taken to be offensive.
So the comparison between "goy" and "kike" is only partially fitting.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Subject: Re: Autopsy - Kahane and Rosenbaum
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 08:40:08 GMT

ah = chr04ha@vmsa.technion.ac.il (Amitai Halevi)

me: It was just as easy for me to express my criticism of him during his
me: life.  His murder does not render him immune to criticism.  

ah: Do you not follow the sequence (precept?): Aharei mot-kedoshim-emor,
ah: otherwise known as "De mortuis etc..."? 

I'm not aware that either the drash on the names of three parshiot or
the Latin proverb are part of halacha.  I do know that the Tanach and
Talmud contain many recountings of acts which are worthy of criticism
and that the people described are dead.
-- 
/|/-\/-\          Adif tzav pinui metzav shmoneh.
 |__/__/_/    
 |warren@         "Warren's slogan is an Anti-semite slogan."
/ nysernet.org 			    Gideon Ehrlich
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish