From: bcronk@bnr.ca (Bryan Cronk)
Subject: Help with causes of astringency
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, BNR-RTP 
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 14:49:35 GMT


I'm a relatively new brewer and have just made the move to doing partial
mashes.  I decided I would do a couple of simple ales to get experience
with mashes, and after my second batch, I think I need a little help in
assessing what's gone wrong.

First, I bought a corona mill to crush my grain.  Since I am a big bread
maker, I figured the $43 would be a good investment (and I could justify
the expense to my wife).  I think I am getting a decent crush, because
most all of the grains have the husks removed, and little flour is generated.

Second, my wife and I constructed a grain bag like Miller describes and
built a false bottom for my 7 gal. fermenting bucket w/spigot.  I don't use
it as a fermenter anymore, but now as a lauter tun and a priming bucket.
I moved to glass carboys for fermenting after my first extract batch.

So...trying to duplicate something close to a Killian's Red ( I know, they're
calling it a lager now instead of an ale, but I still like it), I did
my first partial mash, and it has been in the bottle for a couple of
weeks.  The recipe I used:

2 1/2 lbs Pale Ale malt
1 lb 80L Crystal
3.3 lb light extract syrup
1/2 c light molassas (for flavor)
1 oz Northern Brewer (5.1 % alpha) for boil (60 mins.)
1 tsp irish moss
1 pkg Whitbred ale yeast

5 qt. mash water
2 gal. sparge water
Mash in at 135 F
conversion at 152 F for 1 hour

O.G. 1.045
F.G. 1.009

Other than screwing up and not mixing the extract in well, therefore 
burning some of it on the bottom of the boiler, the taste I had of it
while I was bottling was not bad.  The carmelization was apparent, but I'm
hoping it mellows some - right now it tastes a bit like I added dark
malt without the inherent smoothness.  It was a bit under-hopped, so I 
thought I'd try again.

So, now we come to the second batch...

2 1/2 lbs Pale Ale malt
1/2 lb 80L Crystal
1/2 lb 40L Crystal
1 1/4 lb Munton & Fison light DME
3.3 lb light extract syrup
1 oz Cascade (5.0 % alpha) boil - 60 mins
1 oz Fuggles (5.1 % alpha) boil - 30 mins
1 oz Fuggles - finish
1 tsp irish moss
2 pkg EDME yeast

Same mashing specifications

O.G. 1.045
F.G. 1.010

First off, my extraction rate seems horrible.  Given the extra DME with
the same amount of extract and Pale Ale malt (same brands, even), I 
should have gotten an O.G. of 5-10 points higher than the first batch,
yet it was the same.

Second, I tasted some at bottling time, and from everything I've read,
this beer has a definate astringency to it.  According to Miller, this 
is probably caused by:

1) Letting Hops sit too long in hot wort.  Well, I did let my finishing
hops sit in the boiler for about 10 minutes after I took it off the heat,
but Miller himself recommends 15 minutes, so I'm not sure that had anything
to do with it.

2) High PH in sparge water.  On the recommendation of my brew shop, I have 
been using Lactic acid (17%) to adjust my sparge water.  I thought that if
anything, my sparge PH was too LOW.  Those darn PH papers are not really
precise, but I thought that I may have put too much lactic acid in.  Is
this also a possible cause of astringency?

Finally, compared to the Whitbred and Vierka yeasts I have used in the past,
the EDME didn't seem to clear as well in the secondary, but I went ahead
and bottled anyway since I was under time constraints.  Could yeast in
suspension give the same type of taste characteristics as astringency?

Any help would be appreciated.  It seems that with each new batch, I
learn one thing and mess up another.  Hopefully I won't have to make 
a mistake on every single batch I brew.

Cheers, Bryan

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bryan Cronk   BNR, Inc., Research Triangle Park, NC   
(919) 991-7598 (W)   (919) 528-3375 (H)
I have a hard enough time speaking for myself, let alone anyone else.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: arnet@hpcupt1.cup.hp.com (Arne Thormodsen)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 18:57:57 GMT
Subject: Re: Water in San Francisco
Organization: Hewlett Packard, Cupertino