HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bloc1469@ee.ee.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Date: 9 Jan 1993 06:41:41 GMT
Organization: Electrical Engineering Dept. University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.2.33

In article <1993Jan07.222239.2270@microsoft.com> iank@microsoft.com (Ian Kennedy) writes:
>Yikes! You run Windows in Real Mode? gack. The only way to run Windows is
>386-Enhanced mode on a, yep you guessed it, 386 or better. You get the
>virtual memory and Windows gets linear addressing. It's also much
>faster than "Real Mode".

No, I don't run Windows in real-mode.  I don't have an intel
architecture in my whole home.  :)  I was at the University, and on
thinking about Jerry's claim that Windows doesn't use DOS code, I
wrote a program that would zap ms-dos, a Windows program that crashed
the system quite instantaneously, locking the puppy up tight.

I thought I was running under 3.1 with some FastDisk driver or
something, but evidently, since I was able to turn off the "protected
mode", I was running 3.0, and 3.0 didn't have a FastDisk driver.

So, while we know 3.0 uses MS-DOS code, 3.1 is up in the air.  (shrug)

Greg

Disclaimer:  I only did this for fun, and after much ponderance
wouldn't willingly use Windows again if Bill Gates and the entire
BLAZEMONGER development team, Billy Blazebleeder included, rammed
twelve 800GB trans-magneto-vector optical gigga-whatsit disks up my
posterior and told me to spit out images of Spock and Captain Kirk in
compromising positions.


--
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(: "Our father, who art in Iowa, Hollow be thy head, Thy ideas run    :)
(:  Thy will be done, At Commodore as it is at Apple"  -Dan Barrett   :)
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Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.misc
From: das9674@ucs.usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A)
Subject: Re: Don't let the Amiga Die (Part II)!!!
Organization: Univ. of Southwestern La., Lafayette
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 08:06:47 GMT

In article <1993Jan1.053812.11132@mercury.unt.edu> jbw@ponder.csci.unt.edu (WEST JASON BRUCE) writes:
>>     Corrections, Most Amiga games that I want to play, ie. fighter simulaters,
>>and war games (not stragity), does not run on my amiga.  If it does, I need
>>to press my 2 mouse buttons and reboot.  What a hassel, besides many don't
>>even run no matter what I do.
>>                                                         -TKH '92
>    WHAT?!?  Fight simulators like what?  Flight, tank, what do you mean?
>Falcon is one hell of a flight simulator [The Isreal air force uses multiple
>Amigas running falcon for training].

Harumph!  Isreal surely uses something more sophisticated than *that* version
of Falcon.  Why, Falcon3.0 for the PC from the same people, Spectrum
Holobyte, *really* does blow that older version away.  I have played both
a *lot*, know so.  Hmm.  Is there an echo in this newsgroup?

Besides, he did say *fighter*, denoting fighting airplanes.

>                                                 - Jason
-- 
Dan Stephenson   das9674@usl.edu 
"It reminds me of something Cally said. 'He who trusts cannot be
betrayed, only mistaken.' It was a saying of her people.... Cally is
dead. So are most of her people." -Avon, from _Rescue_ (Blakes 7)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: iank@microsoft.com (Ian Kennedy)
Subject: Re: RISC Amiga?
Date: 12 Jan 93 22:07:55 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article <73380@cup.portal.com> TomK@cup.portal.com (Tom R Krotchko) writes:
>>They are selling PCs that can use the Pentium already.
>
>Who are "they"?

DELL, for one. Any 486 with a properly engineered ZIF(Zero Insertion Force)
socket will take the Pentium when it ships. We have a pentium PC in our labs
here. Haven't had a chance to try it out yet.

>
>
>TomK@cup.portal.com
>Tom Krotchko


-- 
"Apple's attitude toward its ROM code is a little like that of a rich kid
toward his inheritance. Not actually knowing how to create wealth himself,
he guards what he has with hysterical fervor." - John Perry Barlow
MAIL : IANK@MICROSOFT.COM			 Crime and Puzzlement
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: bloc1469@ee.ee.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Date: 7 Jan 1993 21:31:00 GMT
Organization: Electrical Engineering Dept. University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.2.33

In article <1993Jan7.153626.20079@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>On the other hand, you couldn't have been running 3.0, because you insisted
>that FastDisk was turned on, and 3.0 did not have FastDisk.  So which is it,
>Greg?

Listen.  Whichever version of Windows allows you to turn off Protected
mode is the version I was running.  I WAS relatively sure that it was
running FastDisk or something of the kind, so (shrug) whatever.  You
know a LOT more about windows and the various version than I do in
this case.

Greg


--
(: (: (: (: Have you overdosed on smileys today?  Why NOT!?! :) :) :) :)
(: "Our father, who art in Iowa, Hollow be thy head, Thy ideas run    :)
(:  Thy will be done, At Commodore as it is at Apple"  -Dan Barrett   :)
(: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: () :) :) :) Wubba, the Dark Angel :)
From: bloc1469@ee.ee.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Date: 4 Jan 1993 21:31:45 GMT
Organization: Electrical Engineering Dept. University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.2.33

In article <1993Jan4.154432.23110@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>I disagree.  Look at the size of today's applications, and you will too.
>If you need to multitask several of them, you need VM.

No, you need more ram.  And if these are real-time applications,
you'll WANT more.  In a real-time system, VM isn't a good way of
getting things done.

>Irrelevant.  Hard disk is cheaper than RAM, unless you can tell me where
>I can buy 340MB RAM for $600.

Irrelevant.  The performance cost of VM invalidates its usage in all
but the fastest of mainframes using RAID systems running at very
high-speeds.  Tell me how you can make any good use of that 340MB of
ram.  Let's see you do some really neat video processing with 4MB of
ram on a picture that's 100MB in size.  I'd _PAY_ to see that, it
would be the longest show since the movie of War and Peace.  And you
want to _USE_ this system while it's doing this?

These are single-user operating systems.  They're not multi-user
real-time systems, and thusly have a GREATLY reduced need for VM or
anything of its kind.

>There are real-time VM systems, so your notion about VM killing "real-time"
>is incorrect.

Don't be stupid.  Just because VM exists in real-time systems doesn't
mean it doesn't kill performance.

It's just NECESSARY, sometimes, under the burden of running a
multi-user system with lots of real-time processes while being limited
by architecture.

Greg


--
(: (: (: (: Have you overdosed on smileys today?  Why NOT!?! :) :) :) :)
(: "Our father, who art in Iowa, Hollow be thy head, Thy ideas run    :)
(:  Thy will be done, At Commodore as it is at Apple"  -Dan Barrett   :)
(: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: () :) :) :) Wubba, the Dark Angel :)
From: mbrown@legend.akron.oh.us (MARK BROWN)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: HELP--AMIGA OR IBM PC CLONE?
Reply-To: mbrown@legend.akron.oh.us
X-Software: Legend (216-825-2747) UUCPShell v4.9/11Jan93[Compiled]
X-Disclaimer: Opinions of users do not necessarily reflect those of managment
Date: 12 Jan 93 12:32:13 EST
Organization: The Legend BBS Public Access (216)825-2747

Hate to break this to you. If an 040 and a 486 are clocked at the same 
rate, the 486 is in for an ass whipping on nearly every Benchmark. 
There will be faster 040s (a 50 MHz version is in the works from what 
I have heard).
    Mark
From: Jeffrey_Keyzer@sacbbx.sac.ca.us (Jeffrey Keyzer)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Date: 8 Jan 93 03:57:57 GMT
Organization: The CrossRoads BBX - Sacramento, California
X-NewsSoftware: BBX-UMB 0.27d beta (Jan 05 1993)


In <1993Jan6.230541.24166@usl.edu>, das9674@ucs.usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A) writes:
> I must say that a RAM-deficient OS/2 box can be REALLY REALLY SLOW.
> Like, if you have something really big going on, you tend to ask
> your self "d'you think it's stilll thinking, or do you think it crashed?"
> 
> BUT, with, say, 8 meg RAM, it FLYS.  On my 386/33 with 8 megs RAM (7.6,
> actually), the windowing updates are lightning fast.  Even big ones.  I
> impressed the heck out of a Windows friend the other day with it.
> Naturally, there are non-optimal conditions where this of course
> may degrade, but not so you would notice.  Wow, I wonder what 12 or
> 16 megs RAM would be like!!
> >
> > / /\     Raymond Hines              Internet: Ray_Hines%dream.uucp@ufl.edu
> >/_/  \  DreamStates BBS                    or: dream!Ray_Hines@ufl.edu
> -- 
> Dan Stephenson   das9674@usl.edu 
	Heh, 8-16 megs RAM...  :)  I am currently running 1.3 on a 1 meg
Amiga 2000, and I rarely notice any kind of slow down while doing basic
tasks (modeming, word-processing, etc.)  I could easily upgrade to 2.1,
and still have the same performance, even though I only have a 7.14 mhz
machine!  And I can still fully multitask!  I have a friend who is
STRUGGLING to play MODs on his 486sx/33!  And he has 4 megs ram, with
Windows 3.1.  (Yuck!)  OS/2 can't be that much better, especially with
that "limited" amount of RAM, and "Slow" computer.  :)

---
Jeffrey Keyzer 
Jeffrey_Keyzer@sacbbx.sac.ca.us

Amiga - The computer for the creative mind.
From: chrisg@cbmvax.commodore.com (Chris Green)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Comdex/Quicktime released for the PC
Date: 8 Jan 93 13:48:03 GMT
Reply-To: chrisg@cbmvax.commodore.com (Chris Green)
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA

In article <1ics7vINNqcf@uwm.edu> bloc1469@ee.ee.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block) writes:
>Okay, here's the story.  Yes, the Lisa fetches 64-bits each access.
>It does this by fetching one 32-bit longword, and then fetching the
>second in page mode, which is why AGA needs page-mode ram in chip.
>The old Denise was 16-bit.  So, the 16->32bit width change is 2x, and
>the page-mode access makes it 4x.
>
>HOWEVER.
>
>The bandwidth change is ONLY for the chipset.  Other than that, the
>bandwidth for the processor is still 2x that of old amigas, or the
>same as the 3000's, due to full 32-bit access of chip ram.  HOWEVER,
>one must remember that the contention limitations have gone up a LONG
>way.  You will no longer see contention in the places you used to.  As
>an example, an ECS mode known as Productivity, at 4 colors, would eat
>ALL bandwidth except vblanks due to contention.  There is no longer
>any contention in that mode, and you've got the full bandwidth to
>chip.  So, all in all, it takes a lot more to make it eat the
>contention.
>
>A DBLNTSC 640x400 with 8 bitplanes will bring you back to that, if I
>understand correctly, though I'm not sure on this...  I think I might
>be off by a power of two on this one, which would mean you'd only have
>a 50% contention level rather than 100.  Chris, Mike, or Dave will
>hopefully break in on this one.  (shrug)  Or all three, actually.  I
>think that they've taken a vacation, because I've not heard from any
>of them here or anywhere in a while.
>
	You're basically correct in your explanation.

>>I wish that I knew.  There are supposed to be animations by Chris Green
>>which are 30-60fps full-screen, but I've not seen them myself.  

	These are on a dealer demo that is suppose to be circulating soon.
All they do is CopyMemQuick from data which is stored in memory to
a 320x200xham8 screen.

>>Apple
>>seems to be a bit better than Commodore at releasing internal software
>>which promotes the machine.  Boing!, Fields, RoboCity, and other demos
>>convinced me to buy an A1000, but there is nothing like that which shows
>>of the features of the AGA machines, which is a shame.  Oh well...
>
	Good point. Spenceer Shanson and I have written a few AGA demos lately,
so maybe something will come of them.-- 
*-------------------------------------------*---------------------------*
|Chris Green - Graphics Software Engineer   - chrisg@commodore.COM      f
|                  Commodore-Amiga          - uunet!cbmvax!chrisg       n
|My opinions are my own, and do not         - icantforgettheimpression  o
|necessarily represent those of my employer.- youmadeyouleftaholeinthe  r
|"A screaming comes across the sky..."      - backofmyhead              d
*-------------------------------------------*---------------------------*
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.games
From: lionel@cs.city.ac.uk (Lionel Tun)
Subject: Re: UChess Tested on Mercury PP&S 040 board
Organization: City University, London
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 17:24:31 GMT

uzun@crash.cts.com (Roger Uzun) writes:
>I got a chance to run my PD chess pgm, Uchess on a stock A3000 and
>an A3000 with a Mercury 28Mhz 040 board, with 60 ns (perhaps it
>was 80ns) DRAMS.  The stock A3000 is aboiut 3X slower than a stock
>A4000, and turns in a rating below 2100.  The PP&S A3000 68040 board was
>the big surprise, this pgm is memory/CPU bound, and uses no FP,
>and the 28Mhz Mercury board performed almost TWICE as fast as
>the stock A4000!!  It rated over 65 points higher, and soundly
>beat the A4000 machine.  
>Well, I imagine the PP&S Mercury board is costly, but I found
>it interesting that for this application, the 28Mhz 040 board
>is almost twice as fast as a 25Mhz 68040 in the A4000.
>Obviously the memory on the mercury board has FAR fewer
>wait states than the memory on the A4000, to turn in this
>big a difference.

I think we should officially use UChess as a determinator of
'crunching' power. I have already come across the term 'chess
mips' in chess circles. IMHO chess rating is a number which
is derived from the whole performance of the cpu/memory and
as such, being a single number it could be quite handy for
comparison (across the same platform of course, can't compare
different implementations on other platforms).

--
  ________  Lionel Tun, lionel@cs.city.ac.uk  ________
 / /_  __/\       Computer Vision Group      /\ \__  _\
/___/_/_/\/ City University, London EC1V 0HB \ \___\_\_\
\___\_\_\/        071-477 8000 ext 3889       \/___/_/_/
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett)
Subject: Re: Real Time OS (was: To VM or not to VM?)
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 03:08:42 GMT

In article <1ig11lINNbdo@uwm.edu> bloc1469@ee.ee.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block) writes:
>In article <C0GK7M.3D9@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca> engb@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (Ben Eng) writes:
>I just things there are better things to work on, more important
>things to take up space in ROM.  I'd sooner see full resource tracking
>than VM, I'd rather see some really nice debugging MP stuff.

   VM would not necessarily have to go in ROM, and would not necessarily 
take very long to make a standard part of the Amiga OS.  If this GigaMem
really is what people say it is, Commodore could buy it, make any necessary
changes, and package it with the Amiga OS. 

  The biggest disadvantage of GigaMem right now is that you never know if it
will be obsoleted by a small change to the OS.  If Commodore bought it, they
could easily make sure that any changes to the OS did not render GigaMem
incompatible, or make the changes to GigaMem if some small change to the OS
did.

---
| Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
--------------------------------------------------------------------
"No, I just think that a computer grafted on top of another computer
is a kludge.  It has nothing to do with the AGA chipset." -- me
From: bill@snoopy (Bill Poitras)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: a MB style flame against IBMs
Date: 5 Jan 93 01:17:49 GMT
Reply-To: bill@west.msi.com
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

John Carver (John.Carver@launchpad.unc.edu) wrote:
: And yet another.  My friend has a tape drive on his 486.  Guess what! 
: **There is no device file for the tape drive accessable by the OS**!! 

I think you are getting too specific in your comparisons.  MS-DOS and
OS/2 don't support a TAPE: device, but both are very capable of
accomodating one.  There have been tape drivers written to allow the use
of the Tape drive as a disk drive.  In fact, I think \DOS\DRIVER.SYS will
allow just that, granted the tape is run from the floppy controller.  For
SCSI and other tape drives, you will have to get a device driver.  Since
there are a bunch of tape drives out there, most companies just choose to
use a proprietary backup program, since most people use tape drives for
backup on a single machine.

I believe the reason that Microsoft (or IBM, whoever you choose to blame)
havent fixed it because they usually will put in features that most
people want, not just John Carver.  Like disk compression, hard disk
maintenance, and other things that DOS has improved over the years. 

Computer companies are in the business to make money.  I wish MicroSoft
had advanced operating systems further than they have, but they haven't.
And along the way of capturing a market, have made quite a few people
millionaires.

: then I will believe and maybe convert.  Else, no dice.  I do'nt want
: to get into OS/2, since I think Windows NT will kill it.  NT isn't here
: yet, and it'll be a while anyway before it is supported enough to be
: useful.  We'll see.  Eventually clones are bound to take over the
: world, I suppose, not from any staggering degree of competence, but
: through mediocrity and large numbers.

Why do think NT will kill OS/2?  OS/2 will be supported for a long time.
It has already shipped over a million copies, and is a relesed system.
I think OS/2 with its current momentum will at least be here for quite
some time, even if it doesn't capture every desktop (gee kind of like the
Amiga :-)

--
+-----------------+-------------------------------+-------------------------+
| Bill Poitras    | Molecular Simulations Inc.    | Tel (408)522-9229       |
| (bill)          | Sunnyvale, CA USA             |                         | 
|                 | FAX (408)732-0831             | bill@west.msi.com       |
+-----------------+-------------------------------+-------------------------+
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: dtiberio@engws10.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio)
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Organization: State University of New York at Stony Brook
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 00:28:17 GMT

In article <1993Jan12.162905.12392@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>Jack Radigan (jprad@faatcrl.faa.gov) wrote:
>:
>: Windows falls completely into that category, it is an inferior "OS" that was
>: made successful by a very good marketing scheme.  These same people could
>: quite easily make money selling shit in a pie pan too.
>:
>
>Yes, it's quite trendy these days to bash MS and its products.  In fact, it's
>gotten to the point in this country where it's fashionable to put down any
>successful company or individual.  Most of the time, however, the bashers
>don't have any proof to back up their claims.

	I have proof. At work, my boss has his Windows package on his
shelf. But not on his hard drive. It used to be there for about a week,
though.
	When Windows was released, it had very little software immediately
available, too.

>| JERRY J. SHEKHEL  | Molecular Simulations Inc. | Time just fades the pages |


-- 
      Amiga Graphics Association BBS (516) 473-6351  24 HRS 14.4 v.32bis
ixemul.library mpeg_play mpeg_movies jpegs gifs 3d_objs music_mods adobe_fonts
	 login: ANONYMOUS password: GUEST for unrestricted downloads
From: jprad@faatcrl.faa.gov (Jack Radigan)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Date: 8 Jan 1993 17:36:15 -0500
Organization: FAA Technical Center, Pomona, NJ
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: faatcrl.faa.gov

jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:

>:   Also, what about the DOS3Call() function that is used to issue MS-DOS
>: 21h interrupt function calls?

>What about it?  I've never used it in my Windows programming.

>:   Face it, Windows *needs* MS-DOS...

>Of course it does, but only for MS-DOS compatibility.  It's just the way
>they market the thing.  Windows is an OS, however, and the way the split
>it up and package it doesn't change what it is.

  Well, I've not set a breakpoint on DOS3Call(), but I'd bet even money that
Windows itself is using a good number of those functions that the 21h
interrupt provides.

  If MS-DOS was not a necessity I'm sure MicroSoft would be marketing it as
a seperate OS for those that have no need for MS-DOS whatsoever.

  They don't because they can't.

  -jack-
From: Harv@cup.portal.com (Harv R Laser)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: More on 3DO
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 14:51:48 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

>
>Mike
>
>PS. Anyone wanting to start comp.sys.3DO  ??  ;-)
>
>

I suggested this to Leo Schwab when I caught up with him at the
3DO booth at CES. He said he was seriously considering it. 
(Leo works for NTG (New Technologies Group (RJ Mical, Dave Needle,
et. al.)) who are devloping 3DO. One of the demos running at their
booth at CES was a Leo-crafted "Boing! '92" 

Harv
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: iank@microsoft.com (Ian Kennedy)
Subject: Re:  Amiga OS weaknesses
Date: 12 Jan 93 22:10:11 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article <61110b9c@ofa123.fidonet.org> Aric.Caley@ofa123.fidonet.org writes:
>I  mean  really,  it's  not  THAT  much harder to click the icon and select
>format.

Well, you never know. That many steps may cause a serious wetware fault
in the typical mac user.
-- 
"Apple's attitude toward its ROM code is a little like that of a rich kid
toward his inheritance. Not actually knowing how to create wealth himself,
he guards what he has with hysterical fervor." - John Perry Barlow
MAIL : IANK@MICROSOFT.COM			 Crime and Puzzlement
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy