From: dpage@ra.csc.ti.com (Doug Page)
Subject: Re: A few quotes from a few years ago
Organization: Texas Instruments
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 17:07:08 GMT

|> Hey, wait a minute. Since, I'm an atheist, why am I not going out right now
|> committing crimes, killin babies, and having sex with other men?
|> Unfortunately, there are many people without strong moral values which
|> is related to but not equivalent to Christianity. All religions teach
|> basically the same good things: repect for others, don't kill, respect
|> your elders, etc. Are you telling me that becasue Japan (for example) is not
|> a Christian country, that they are plagued with a much higher crime rate,
|> etc. than the U.S.A.?
|> 
|> Secondly, how does homosexuality and family breakups equate to crime,
|> killing babies? Didn't your revered Ronald Reagan break up his family?
|> I guess that means he's just a common pagan. Homosexuality has been shown
|> to be a natural occurance in animals. Doesn't this mean that God intended
|> for a certain portion of his creations to be homosexuals? Maybe we should
|> also be putting down those born with Down's syndrome?



WRT homosexuality being a "natural" behavior, I guess you're "right". 
However, if we are to use such reasoning to determine what is "natural" for
man, then we should not make any provision for the disadvantaged.  After all,
nauture doesn't - survival of the fittest, you know.  By the same token we
should not persecute murders, rapists, those who use (illegal) drugs, those
who steal nor those who commit incest by passing laws against such lifestyle
choices since all of these activities occur in nature and they can't help it.

But what sort of things should we not be doing under "natural" law?  Perhaps we
should also eliminate the USDA and state and local health departments since
there is no precedent in nature for them.  After all, it isn't "natural" to
cook or preserve food; it should be eaten raw.  Who cares if raw sewage gets in
food or the water supplies, after all there are some animals that will fight to
eat fecal material.  But then again, we'd have to outlaw activities such as
abortion (and family planning in general) since sexual intercourse between male
and female is only for procreation in nature and no animal (other than man)
practices "family planning" in this or any other way.  We'd have to eliminate
welfare - once again, survival of the fittest.  We would need to get rid of the
civil court system.  After all, if an animal is hurt or killed in the wild by
any animal other than man it is considered natural, so why should you or your
survivors collect any damages?

Perhaps the "normal" family is where the woman supports the family as well as
raising the children while the man of the house does what he wants: sleeping
all day, playing games, mating with the neighbor's wife, and etc.  - after
all, there is at least one species for which this is normal behavior in the
wild.

I guess that we should not be concerned when a whale beaches itself we should
simply ignore it.  Turtles routinely crawl up on beaches, therefore it "must"
be natural for whales to do likewise.  It is natural for birds to leap off the
edge of cliffs, therefore it "must" be natural for elephants to do likewise(?).
Oh no! Now it's getting confusing.  Hmmm..., I guess what's a "natural
behavior" for one animal isn't necessarily "natural" for another.

[Never mind that the research that you point to has come under
serious question by other researchers.  Was the behavior of these animals a
result of their nature, or a product of their response to their environment?
Was their environment actually "in the wild"?  Was their behavior actually
homosexual, or simply a response (more along the lines of masturbation) to
their inability to mate with the opposite sex (i.e., there were no males
around when they were in heat; loosing the battle with other males to mate
with the female(s) in heat?  These questions are my own, and not necessarily
the same ones raised by all of the researchers who question the findings that
you point to.

Perhaps we should look at how healthy a lifestyle choice homosexuality
actually is.  Studies have shown that practicing 80%+ of practicing homosexual
males in the SF area have serious infections of the colon.  A comparable
number also have serious infections from oral contact with fecal material. 
Studies also show that 60%+ of these same men have hepatitis.  Studies have
also shown that the "typical" homosexual has 350+ sexual partners in their
lifetime.  While this is the "typical" homosexual (I realize that not all
homosexuals are promiscuous), it is easy to see why studies also show that 
80%+ of homosexuals suffer from one or more STDs, including HIV/AIDS.  Studies
also show that while homosexuals represent 10-15% of the population, 60-65% of
child molestations are committed by homosexuals.  (No wonder the homosexual
activists at the political conventions were marching for the repeal of laws
against sex with minors.

BTW, before you start calling me a "homo-phobe", you might want to know that
most of this information came from one of my cousins (a practicing
homosexual) who died of AIDS this past spring.]

|> 
|> Actually, I'm sick of the intolerant attitute held by many of the radical
|> right that want to force their beliefs onto me.
|> 

You don't appear to be all that tolerant yourself.  Or, perhaps David is tired
of being tolerant himself (?).

	(stuff deleted)
 
|> Oh brother. Even the head of GHWB's church said that he should not be
|> mixing God into his political campaign. Actually, I have no choice but
|> to vote against Bush since he doesn't consider me a citizen or a patriot.
|> I guess voluntarily joining the Marines to serve my country and putting
|> my life on the line in the Gulf does not make one a patriot.
|> 
|> Duke P. Hong
|> duke@valentine.uci.edu

Doug Page

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