HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: eddie@hermes.oit.unc.edu (Edward M. Averett)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,alt.magick
Subject: Re: Santeria
Date: 8 Nov 92 17:02:56 GMT
Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill

In article <1992Nov8.081233.9201@reed.edu> kanderso@reed.edu (Karl Anderson) writes:
>A good anthropological-type book on vo(o)d[oo,un] is _Tell My Horse_,
>by Zora Neal Hurston.
>k
>
Yeah, I forgot this one. My recommendation also.
From: radzy@ICSI.Berkeley.EDU (T. O. Radzykewycz)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Samhain & Spiral Dance
Date: 5 Nov 92 03:42:39 GMT
Organization: International Computer Science Institute, Berkeley, CA, U.S.A.

markbr%radian@natinst.com (markbr) writes...
>>The one or two group events that I've been to recently have been this way:
>>they didn't want to say, in advance, what was planned. Anyone out there
>>have any good *REASONS* for this?

ksm@abb-sc.abb-sc.com (Ashley) writes:
> There are a couple reasons why some groups like to keep the
> exact order and rituals secret. I am sharing my Samhain
> experience to illustrate one of the uses of secrecy, mystery and
> the unknown in ceremony. ....
> 
> The ritual was rewritten often and any copy I had circulated was
> outdated merely days after I had written it. The site was in
> doubt until the last possible minute. ....
> 
> When at last we had gathered for the ritual, I was still
> figuring out what I was going to do in my mind.
> 
> I will say that the element of the unknown was VERY important
> here.


markbr%radian@natinst.com (markbr) writes:
> Perhaps the unknown was important, but it seems to me that the
> people you worked with knew you, and the *kinds* of things to
> expect. When I was in a ritual, I had not a *clue* as to what
> was coming, or what kinds of things would be expected of me, and
> had *great* difficulty putting myself into it, finding myself
> often holding back until too late. I *needed* the knowledge to
> "set" myself into the context, and didn't have it.

Right.  The ritual *I* attended was the thirteenth annual, so the
form was probably pretty similar to the twelvth annual.  And
there were at least a couple people (other than my sweetie
and me) who had never been to it before.  With a group the size
of that one, there were probably a dozen or so.  I realize it
isn't possible for a ceremony done in a small group, which has
a reasonable amount of improv in it, but this was *NOT* that
kind of thing.

Bear Blessings!

		-- radzy

------------------------------------------------------------
					|  An it harm none,
	T. O. Radzykewycz	     	|  do as ye will.
	The Incredible Radical Cabbage	|
					|  "Just pray for a
	radzy@cogsci.berkeley.edu       |  tough hide and a
	        			|  tender heart."
	        			|    -- Ruth Graham
------------------------------------------------------------
Tribal Mother was old, and lay ill on a bed of moss and
fern.   Her hair was long and grey.   Her face was very
wrinkled.    Tamura'nun-pa thought:   How beautiful you
are, Mother, so old and wise.
From: wolves.durham.nc.us!circle!lance (Lance A. Brown)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Annoying, cloying "wann-be"s (was Pagan Bumper Stickers)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 22:55:41 EST
Organization: The Full Circle BBS, Raleigh NC

sjgavula@css.itd.umich.edu (Susan Gavula) writes:
> Sure there are wannabe witches at sf-cons...but you can also
> find many *real* ones too.  In fact, a con was the first place
> I started learning about the Art.  Especially if one is
> Solitaire, because of lack of any like-minded folks around,
> cons can be a way to meet and talk and such...  Do beware the
> wannabe's but be nice, the wannabe you meet and talk with,
> just might decide to truly study and become a pagan/witch/
> insert your favorite name here...

This is how I first encountered pagans too, and whole-heartedly agree with 
your statement.  Yes, there are a lot of wanna-be's at cons, but Minicon in 
Minneapolis, MN is where I have met some of the nicest pagans I know. 

Lance

Newsgroups: alt.pagan,alt.magick
From: jknife@desire.wright.edu
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Questions
Date: 6 Nov 92 16:25:25 GMT
Organization: Wright State University


	From reading some of the flames on here, I feel that I'm really going
out on a limb with this post.  Go easy on me.

	I really just want to learn more about your beliefs.  I am a student at
Wright State University.  A couple of years ago, Brother Jed was on campus 
preaching up a storm (and an abusive crowd) and one Wiccan was talking to him a
lot.  A talked to this guy a little bit later on, and he told me a little, but
really all I got from it was the "An it harm none .. . " saying.  

	I'd like to know more about this religion historically.  Where and when
did it originate?  

	That post about Christmas having pagan origins was interesting.  Any
more on that?

	And how is this religion practiced today?

	I know these are terribly broad questions, and I don't expect one
person to answer all of them.  But I would appreciate any information.  


	Thank you,
	Joe Knife
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe)
Subject: Re: Looking for help
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Distribution: na
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 06:35:13 GMT

The poster said that sie is a slightly experienced pagan who is suddenly coping
with quantities of newbies wanting to learn about paganism.  I would start them
all out with _Drawing Down the Moon_ by Margot Adler.  It is *the* survey of
neo-paganism in North America.  Reading it will make them think about what they
are looking for.  If they are looking for Wicca, I suggest Scott Cunningham's
_Wicca: A Guide for the Solitary Practioner_ followed by _The Spiral Dance_ by
Starhawk.  Those two books will give them a solid foundation for Solitary 
practice.  (I tend to think that it is best for a person to start with Solitary
practice, and work with others later.)  If they are looking for something else,
the resource sections in Adler will come in very handy.  

If you folks are working with Wicca, feel free to email me questions.  Actually,
you can send me questions no matter what you're working with, but you will only
get book answers for most other things. :-)


              Merry meet, merry part, merry meet again,
                               Br'anArthur

Queer, Peculiar, and Wyrd! :-)

******************************************************************************
Newage is hypoallergenic spirituality--
it's for people who are allergic to the word religion.
                                   --Jon Jay Obermark
Xref: sparky alt.pagan:12728 alt.magick:5810
From: dart@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Dartanyan the Witchling)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,alt.magick
Subject: Re: Magical Herbalism (was: Re: Santeria)
Date: 11 Nov 92 21:43:48 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center

In article <1992Nov6.224736.25896@u.washington.edu> grimoire@byron.u.washington.edu (John Greer) writes:
>In article <6T7NTB5w165w@brewich.hou.tx.us> skye@brewich.hou.tx.us (Skye Stryder) writes:
>> 
>>I just picked up a Llewyn(sp) book on Magical Herbs as it was the only 
>>detail on the magical uses of herbs.  The author, Scott Cunningham, ...
>>downplays (if not censors...I'm too unschooled at this point to know what 
>>he's withholding) the darker uses of herbs.
>>... I'd be pleased to hear of any better 
>>books on magical herbalogy that are out there.
>>Skye
>
>No, it's not your imagination (IMHO, of course).  Cunningham's books can
>be useful primers on some subjects, but (again IMHO) they are *extremely*
>basic, as well as suffering from the fluffy-bunny syndrome you mention... 


"Pretty Magick"  seems to be in vogue, nowadays...
Trimming books with enough simplistic fluff and disclaimer-style statements
to keep the fundie-type publishers happy...

>If you're looking for something a little more advanced, Paul Beyerl's
>_Master Book of Herbalism_ might be a good choice.  Also interesting is
>C. L. Zalewski's _Herbs in Magic and Alchemy_, although this is primarily
>useful for people in the Golden Dawn or related traditions.
>
>Any other suggestions out there?  I've only been working with herbs for a 
>couple of years, and there are probably a couple of dozen good books out      
>there which I haven't come across yet...
>
>-- John Michael Greer
>   grimoire@u.washington.edu
>


Beyerl rules!!!  :)
Actually, i'm just getting started in herbalism, learning from a friend of
mine at UIUC, and experimenting on my own...
Beyerl is about the most complete book on magickal and medicinal uses of herbs
that either I or my teacher have found.
Zalewski i haven't read yet, tho...

Btw, did that group, alt.herbalism, or whatever it was, ever get going?
I'd certainly like to know where would be a good place to request/post 
herbal recipes for teas and other concoctions...

Thanks.

--
dart
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com (Ailsa N.T. Murphy)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Yay!
Date: 8 Nov 92 01:09:51 GMT
Reply-To: ailanth!ailsa@wang.com (Ailsa N.T. Murphy)
Organization: Ailanthus Project

aaldrich@encore.com (Al Aldrich) writes:

> cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
>
> >Ya-HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> ditto
>
yeah, me too!  i was all set to be depressed again.  i had my stack of
rolled socks to throw at teh TV, i had my spiked homemade hot
chocolate, i had my doritos...  and we WON!!!!!!!!!
>
> >BTW, Boxer and Feinstein both made it in, as did Carol Mosley Braun -
> >SPECIAL hooray for her!  And we finally have a First Lady who had to
> >her alarm clock -- same as me.
>
> wonderful news..not to mention our first native american in high elect
> office..it looks like the people who represent this country our finall
> going to start `looking like' this country.. I love it.
>
yup, i noticed that too, is he really the FIRST?

and definitely cool to ahev a first lady (hate that word, but i suppose
the parallel "first gentleman" woudl be intertsting) who reflects
modern reality instead of a bygone era...

> >mandate for safe abortion, a mandate for minorities of all sorts (I j
> >hope it's for real.)
>
> ditto
>
yup.

> >I'm afraid to hope for too much here, but it's still nice to dream
> >anyway.  Isn't it?
>
> It certainly is..:-)
>
Ayuh!!!!!

                                        cheers!
                                        ailsa

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
                    ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com
                                                        ________
I don't care what consequence it brings,        Silence \      / Action
I have been a fool for lesser things.              =     \    /    =
                                                 Death    \  /    Life
                                                           \/
From: lazarus@goldwing.ksu.ksu.edu (Bart -Laz- Smith)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: obsesed sf/fantisy types
Date: 8 Nov 1992 23:47:14 -0600
Organization: Kansas State University
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: goldwing.ksu.ksu.edu


In article <BxCqI2.HFH@news.iastate.edu>, txdv1@isuvax.iastate.edu (Angela KAY Rolling) writes:
>The people that you have described are probly the way that they are
>because they have no life out side of role-playing. The persona lits
>them exscape from what ever problems they are unable to deal with in the
>real world.  Some have may actualy have a psycological problem and this
>delusion that they have developed is a symptome. 

Try telling that to one of the fundies...er... blindly faithful.  It doesn't
matter WHAT problems the obsessed person had BEFORE playing the game (abusive
parents, drug/alcohol abuse, Bob Sagat), it's the game that gets the blame 
too much of the time.

I spent over seven months on the Prodigy system's BBS trying to convince a
woman that this was the case, and all she could do was throw the Bible at us.
With facts vs. faith, they'll pick faith nearly every time (which isn't any-
thing to condemn a Christian for in itself).

>ELF-KIN

--
Bart -Laz- Smith
Kansas State University
'Cats - 22, Iowa State - 13  A K-State win on national television... and a win
	that I'm satisfied with!  :)
"I'm confused... did I vote, or did I just buy candy?" -- David Letterman
From: Steve.Dugas@iphase.infoserv.com (Steve Dugas)
Sender: FredGate@iphase.infoserv.com
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Monogamy, Polygamy, and raising children (Was: Falling in Love
Date: 12 Nov 92 23:55:00 EST

I doubt that statistics taken from welfare situations give a fair
 impression, but as a whole, the number of parents in a household does
 seem to affect child rearing.  One reason may social.  The more adult
 "role models" a child has the better the child is able to develop
 individual coping skill for him/herself.  Also, as much as we may
 like to think we can do everything, having more adults around can
 give each parent a chance for rest and recharging.  No one wants to
 be the "Mommie" or "Daddy" all the time.  When one of us gets out of
 sorts, it is nice to let your partner take over so as not to burden
 the young ones with your problems (especially when they ARE the
 problem).  
     I have seen a lot in here about single parent v/s 2 parents, but
 not much mention of more than that.  What are the advantages of more
 adults in the home?  In older times, the grandparents quite often
 lived in the home or close by and took a lot of the child care duties
 while the parents worked.  That doesn't often exist today, but what
 of pleural marriages?  Does anyone have enough experience in that to
 give us some insite?  This seems to be the ideal solution, if the
 adults can keep their unity and love alive.  This would surly give
 the children a lot more experience observing interpersonal
 relationships which could better prepare them to go out into the
 world when they are grown (hopefully with fewer hangups than most).
.
                                          Blessed Be
                                          Steve Dugas

 * Origin: U_PAGAN: <<<<<<<<<< RE-ELECT NOBODY! >>>>>>>>>> (1:112/29)
From: dhardin@bbn.com (Dawn Hardin)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Need information on herbs that will abort
Date: 9 Nov 1992 22:06:44 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com

In article <1992Nov6.061629.15761@ncsu.edu>, dachamb@eos.ncsu.edu (DUANE ALFORD CHAMBLEE) writes:
> 
> Could someone please help me with a herbal remedy for my situation ? I am
> pregnant . I would like to abort by herbs. I would really appreciate some
> help. 
> 
> 				Melanie

Some other people have already posted good replies about where you might
find this information and why you might not want to use herbs for this.
Something else that I thought you might find helpful is an abortion ritual
that Zsuzsanah Budapest describes in her _Woman's Book of Days_ book.
(Errh, I have the feeling that I just mashed two different book titles
together into one.  If I'm wrong, will someone please correct me?)
It includes a visualization of going into the body to say goodbye to the
fetus and explain why you're going to do what you're doing.  

I've heard of people using a similar visualization to try to induce an
abortion, where the woman asks the fetus to leave on its own accord, and
asks her body to push it out.  I don't know how much success they had with
it.  I don't think it would be a good idea to wait very long for it to
work before trying something more predictable.

Dawn
"Hello death, goodbye Avenue A.  I'm getting tired of waiting, tired of
being afraid.  Joseph Campbell gave me hope and now I have been saved.
So I sing hello death, goodbye Avenue A."  "Folk Song" by Bongwater.
From: cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Subject: Where's Ciaran?
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 10 Nov 92 07:50:14 GMT

Just wondering . . .

Blessings,
Janis
From: eshin@ddsw1.mcs.com (Eshin-Fun)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Loo seats (was: Re: hate and anger)
Date: 7 Nov 92 21:08:00 GMT
Organization: ddsw1.MCS.COM Contributor, Chicago IL
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

>>lilleyc@cs.man.ac.uk (Chris Lilley) writes:
: In article <2AF71FFA.22618@news.service.uci.edu> cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
: 
: >And I don't buy it that they're so intimately related.  When TMM leaves
: >the seat up, I am pissed.  Hate, though?  Never in a gezillion years.
: 
: This has always puzzled me. Women always get upset at men leaving the
: bog seat up. Why? It's not difficult to move it.. I have heard many,
: many women complain about this as if putting the seat down was some
: kind of rule all us men forget. I do not recall ever hearing a man
: complain about women leaving the seat *down* though.
: After all, when you leave the toilet, its 50/50 whether a man or woman
: uses it next - so leaving it up is just as likely to be right as
: leaving it down. And its such a *small* thing. Why does it piss off
: women so much?
: 
: Janis can you enlighten me?
: 
: --
: Chris Lilley<<

Originally, I believe the purpose of a cover on the seat was to discourage
rats coming up the sewer out into the house. Therefore it's logical that
whenever anyone uses the loo they should remember to close down its top.
This not only discourages rats but helps to keep unpleasant odors from
permiating in the room. 

Men have all the right to lift up the seat, and at times can expect women to
leave the seat up for them. What pisses off a woman more than anything else
is going to a loo full of piss! Men sometimes do not realize that their aim
is indiscriminate and that many are the times when for whatever reason their
aim can miss the mark. If men were to put the seat down perhaqps they can
realize what mess they've left, and who knows, they may even be moved to
clean up after them. 
But why can't men sit like a woman and insure proper cleanliness. The answer
to that is perhaps like so many other masculine traits ;-) they always seem
to be in a hurry! ;-)

Consideration for each other is the main beef. A woman entering a loo with
a seat upraised just simply is a constant reminder that men have no
consideration for a woman's needs.

The proper ettiquette is that both men and women should close the seat and
cover alltogether after their use of a commode.

Eshin-Fun
From: alizard@pil.UUCP
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: re: raising children
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 92 02:30:44 PST

Re: Re: raising children
By: jdm #0 @rmtc.Central.Sun.COM (Jim Moore) USEnet      
 
> From: jdm@rmtc.Central.Sun.COM (Jim Moore)
> Newsgroups: alt.polyamory,alt.romance,soc.singles,alt.pagan,alt.sex
> Subject: Re: raising children
> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 92 17:31:25 GMT
> Jim Moore
> SunSoft, Colorado Springs

You might suggest to the appropriate people at your company after the boycott
gets serious that the company move out of Colorado. 

blessings...
                                                 A.Lizard
====== 93 ====== mea saurus, mea saurus, mea maxima saurus! ====== 93 ======
                  (slogan contributed by Jessica McGeary)
Mail to me should be sent to:       |  There are no fnords in this sig file.
alizard%tweekco%boo@PacBell.COM     |  autoreply to address I posted this
     ^^^ preferred site ^^^         |  from only if you want to wait a
PacBell.COM!boo!tweekco!alizard     |  solstice or two for my answer.
alizard@seer.mystic.com(backup site)|              Kallisti!

From: Steve.Dugas@iphase.infoserv.com (Steve Dugas)
Sender: FredGate@iphase.infoserv.com
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: pagan gathering
Date: 12 Nov 92 23:19:00 EST

Announcing LifeSpring Gathering to be held North of Tampa, Fl. next
spring (18 - 21 March).  We will be entertaining the Farrars as well
as enjoying workshops, rituals, drumming, and fireside dancing.  We
 are celebrating the return of Spring and building community.  
            For information, write to :
             LifeSpring Gathering 
             P.O. Box 30327
             Jacksonville, Fl. 32230
I hope many of you are able to make it
                                           Steve Dugas

 * Origin: U_PAGAN: <<<<<<<<<< RE-ELECT NOBODY! >>>>>>>>>> (1:112/29)

Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: logan@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Richard Scott)
Subject: pagan and wicca mailing lists
Summary: can you help?
Keywords: addresses?
Organization: Monash University, Melb., Australia.
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 12:21:34 GMT

Hi all,

I was wondering if anybody would be able to send me the addresses of any
pagan or wicca mailing lists please?

Thanks very much,


Regards,

        Richard Scott  (logan@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au)

-- 
AussieVamp 
AussieMan, Neophyte Vampire and DarkWolf
(Eric Clapton is God!!!)   [ and there is Bobby Fischer... ;-) ]
(Walter Payton, Mike Singletary and Neal Anderson form the Holy Trinity!)
From: lilleyc@cs.man.ac.uk (Chris Lilley)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Druid Human Sacrifice
Date: 3 Nov 92 23:41:46 GMT
Organization: Dept Computer Science, University of Manchester, U.K.

In article <1992Oct29.021847.6267@s1.gov> lip@s1.gov (Loren I.
Petrich) writes:

>In article <6611@m1.cs.man.ac.uk> lilleyc@cs.man.ac.uk (Chris Lilley) writes:

>>Speaking of Lindow Man [...]

>	He was probably a Druid sacrificed by his fellow Druids after
>some Roman victories that had been disastrous for their people; it was
>therefore a measure of desperation. How was he selected? Apparently, a
>group of Druids selected one of their number to be sacrificed,
>probably by burning a corner of a cake, breaking it, and having
>everybody draw a piece from a bag. Whoever got the burnt piece was to
>be sacrificed, and reportedly some burnt cake was found in the man's
>stomach.

Yes, I remember now. There was.

Interestingly, there was a custom in the Scottish Highlands of burnt
bannocks (scones, bread cakes) at Samhain. In fact, many traditional
Samhain folk rituals involve selecting someone - nuts jumping on a
fire, sticks moved by the fire, whatever. The usual folklore
interpretation was that they would die 'before the year was out' or in
a 'year and a day'.

>	See _The Life and Death of a Druid Prince_ (I forget the
>author) for details.


--
Chris Lilley
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technical Author, ITTI Computer Graphics and Visualisation Training Project
Computer Graphics Unit, Manchester Computing Centre, Manchester, UK
Internet:   lilley@cgu.mcc.ac.uk        Janet:   lilley@uk.ac.mcc.cgu
Voice:      +44 (0)61 275 6095          Fax:     +44 (0)61 275 6040
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: txdv1@isuvax.iastate.edu (Angela KAY Rolling)
Subject: sf fans
Reply-To: txdv1@isuvax.iastate.edu
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 16:35:26 GMT

I would like to not in this discusion that Trekkies (& any thing with Trek in
it) are fans of Star Trek. It is a term not for sf fans in general but one
that is specific to a sf show. Also you can be a fan of sf in general (the
works of those like Asmove) a fan of sf and not Star Trek, A fan of sf/
fantisy or just fantisy. There are difrint kinds of fandom which is why 
difrint groups of fans dont like to be confused with outher groups.
I am a Trekkie as well as a fan of sf, scientific fantisy and fantisy.
each of these things is a dirfint type of writing.
exsamples of science fiction would be things like V or most of the works
of Asmove _The Gods Them Selves_
scientific fantisy would be things like the Shadow Run seres. Anything
that has magic and tech
Fantisy is things like _The Lord of The Rings_ there is no tech
Star Trek as everyone oht to know by now is a specific sf universe
that has a masive amount of following and many books about it.

ELF-KIN 	live long and prosper. ( a pittiful atempt at the Valcan hand 
					salute. )