HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tony@cactus.org (Tony J. Hurson)
Subject: Irish Books/U.S. Bookshops
Organization: Capital Area Central Texas UNIX Society, Austin, Tx
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 04:33:06 GMT

Wandering around Austin's many bookshops, I have noticed a huge
disparity in the availability of Irish literature versus other Irish
subjects. Generally, Irish literature is very well represented, with
the modern trinity of Joyce, Beckett and Yeats being the most prevalent
and dovetailing off to writers as obscure as William Allingham. Irish
history and politics, however, occupy a miniscule amount of shelf space,
and are often lumped in with "British history" (please, please, no 
jumping on hobby horses!). I'd be inclined to say that the ratio 
between Irish literature and Irish "other" is ten to one. I have 
noticed this in both new and used bookshops. Am I right in concluding
that American readers consider Irish literature world class, but reject
the country's politics and history as parochial or uninteresting?
The width of the gap is still puzzling, for you would think that all
those readers of Irish literature would search out some political or
historical reference points to provide context to the stuff they are
reading. Joyce, for instance seems to be a very "hot" writer here in
Austin (and, I take it, the U.S.), but how can you read the "Portrait",
or especially, "Ulysses", without some background on the country?

I'd be interested in hearing from other U.S. residents on the 
quantities and categories of Irish books they find in their local
bookshops.

[Background on Austin: a city of half a million people, it is
moderately sized by U.S. standards and has a small-town culture.
The University of Texas, located in the city centre, with its
50,000 students, contributes to its very high per capita reading
rate. Austin has no Irish American community. A tiny amount of
its residents are of Irish descent.]

+------------------------------------+-----------------------------------+
| Tony Hurson,                       | Email: tony@cactus.org (home)     |
| Capital Area Central Texas Unix    |        tony@ross.com (work)       |
| Society (CACTUS), Austin, Texas    |                                   |
+------------------------------------+-----------------------------------+
From: ctwomey@vms.eurokom.ie
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: McGregor tartan in SILK wanted.
Date: 4 Jan 93 12:30:49 CET
Organization: EuroKom Conferencing Service


Does anyone know where I can get the McGregor tartan in silk?
I couldn't find any in Scotland last time I was there - but then I
didn't really know the places to look.  

Any advice appreciated.

C.
From: halpin@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Accents
Date: 7 Jan 93 20:23:31 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620

In article <dolonsgh.726424392@unix1.tcd.ie>, dolonsgh@unix1.tcd.ie
(DL) writes:
> Shetland islanders in news reports seemed to be speaking in an accent
> closer to Northern Ireland than Scotland.
> Did anyone else notice this?
> Does anyone know why their accent is like that?
> 
> Donal O Loingsigh
> dolonsgh@unix1.tcd.ie

Contrarily, it struck me that there was a slight touch of
Scandinavian in their accents but that might have been suggestion.

I caught a bit of "Whisky Galore" on TV over Christmas, though, and
I thought the Barra accent was quite remarkable: softer than much
Scots, quite like the south and west of Ireland (and _not_ like
relatively adjacent Donegal).

Brendan

Brendan Halpin                    Email: HALPIN@VAX.OXFORD.AC.UK
Nuffield College                  Phone: +44 865 278642 (work)
Oxford OX1 1NF                                   726758 (home)
United Kingdom                    PGP 2.0 key on request
From: minty@cguhpa.cgu.mcc.ac.uk (Elspeth Minty)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Any news on the Shetland Oil spill??
Date: 7 Jan 93 13:15:49 GMT
Organization: Manchester Computing Centre

The Liberian registered tanker Braer carrying 85,000 tons of oil ran ashore in Quendale Bay during gales. As I understand from radio/papers etc, it suffered engine failure after water got into its fuel. Attempts to pull it away from the shored using tugs failed due to the attrocious weather conditions ( gale force 9 and upwards ). 

The recovery operation has been hampered by the weather as well, although the high winds have meant that the damage has until lately been contained to the area of the bay. However I believe that a large oil slick is now starting to move up the coast threatening salmon farms and sheep which often graze down to the beach. As for the wild life, the devastation is likely to be horrific. Already hundreds of birds, including rare and incredibly beautiful black throated divers have been washed up dead on the beac


hes. Also affected are the seals which have been sighted struggling through the oil with two found dead so far.

Experts are being flown in from around the world to help with the clean up operation and the Shetland Islands have plans for dealing with major oil spills due to the presence of a large oil terminal in the islands. The government has not sent any senior ministers to the islands and has dumped what could well be Britains worst environmental disaster on two completely unknown ministers. I wonder what their reaction would have been if the tanker had run aground near the mouth of the River Thames ???

The main question to be raised by this incident (apart from the whole issue of carrying such huge amounts of oil at sea in the first place) is what a tanker sailing from Norway to Canada was doing passing so close to the Shetlands in such bad weather in the first place. Perhaps this disaster will prompt the issue of safety on 'flag of convenience' ships to be sorted once and for all, although I somehow doubt it.

Elspeth
From: scimitar@suction.acme.gen.nz (Robert Singers)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Kilts
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 93 01:06:50 +1300
Organization: Barbed Wire Cat Productions

katherim@fraser.sfu.ca (Katherine Merle Mason) writes:

> I have always been taught that one recieves the priviledge of wearing
> a tartan by virtue of loyalty to the laird of one's clan.  It does not
> matter if you were born to it (although an individual's position in the
> clan is somewhat dependant on this) or if you decide to swear allegiance
> to the laird of clan coffee table.  The idea here, I guess, is that the
> right to wear a tartan is like a fief from the laird, which is a 
> privilidge of loyalty.  As to laws, I have never heard of one which sets
> this in stone, but I had always assumed it was generally obeyed by 
> custom.

OK, well I got back from holiday to find sporadic discussion of question 
about the right to wear particular tartans still going.  I'm very glad.

The above answer implies problems for people of Scottish ancestory living 
in other countries.  But I surpose it's totally alright for us to wear 
the tartan of the clan our ancestors were a member of.

Thanks for all the discussion.  I would be interested though in finding 
out if laws have (or do) exist covering the wearing of tartan.

Robert Singers               | Nothing I say or do should be taken as
scimitar@suction.acme.gen.nz | a reflection of any form of reality or
                             | consensual hallucination.
** It's not my spelling (much) that's faulty.  It's this keyboard! **
From: clg151@vaxa.strath.ac.uk
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Gaellic Spelling
Date: 6 Jan 93 13:07:51 GMT
Organization: Strathclyde University VAX Cluster

In article <1992Dec31.100753.1@kean.ucs.mun.ca>, tkeough@kean.ucs.mun.ca writes:
> 
> 	I am looking for the correct Gaelic spelling of the name 
> Elizabeth. I first heard the name from the Canadian program Witness.
> That particular episode showed the story of the Siamese twins Katie and
> Eilisp?).(sp). I did not notice at any time during the program the correct
> spelling of the latter. I realize that this may not be the correct queue
> for this question but any help will be greatly appreciated. Please mail 
> replies to the address below.
> 
> 						Thanks
> 						T. Keough
> 
> 		E-MAIL: TKEOUGH@KEAN.UCS.MUN.CA
Dear T,
       Being a scot(from East Kilbride), I can assure you that the correct 
method of spelling any word in gaellic is probably very long, and invariably
involves several silent letters, mostly G, M, and L. Probably...
From: newt@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Michael Steven Newton)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Speaking Our Language
Date: 11 Jan 93 15:36:11 GMT
Organization: Glasgow University Computing Science Dept.

morna@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Morna J Findlay) writes:

>Does anyone know if there is a book to go with this series, as there was
>for "Can Seo"?

>I missed Saturday's episode, but would be interested if anuyone caught
>it to hear what they thought.

  The episodes are on at 1:40 on Sat and repeated on Mondays at 2:15.

  It is usually listed as "Speaking our Language", although it is sometimes
referred to in the Gaelic as "bruidhinn ar canan" as well.

  I bought the book that goes along with it at the local John Smith
bookstore in Glasgow, in the "foriegn language" section (yeah, what bitter
irony).  It's actually very well done, artfully produced and laid out,
with colourful cartoon dialogues, songs, rhymes, places, etc.  There's
also bits of lore and history - a nice cultural compliment.

  The metaphor seems to be "travel".  Each week takes place at a different
location in Scotland.  This week was supposed to be Skye, though most of
it was actually filmed in Glasgow.  Good idea, though.

  The first episode was very basic.  Don't fret too much if you didn't
see it.

mn
From: afong@davidsys.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: oops
Date: 6 Jan 93 18:22:56 PST
Organization: DAVID Systems Inc, Sunnyvale CA


oops
From: valentin@icacp13.ic.ornl.gov
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: test
Date: 7 Jan 93 21:51:37 GMT
Organization: ORNL

This is a test.
From: cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Chris Cooke)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Speaking Our Language
Date: 11 Jan 93 09:49:03 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Edinburgh, Scotland

Craig Cockburn announced the new "learn Scottish Gaelic" TV series here some
months ago.  STV, who show the programme in this area, don't seem to have
bothered as much as Craig in publicising it.  They showed the first episode
last Saturday afternoon, with no advance publicity at all as far as I could
see.  My local (large, normally well-stocked) bookshop has never heard of the
series, and devotes more shelf space to books on "Colloquial Albanian" than
to Gaelic learners' books.

What's going on?  Have STV made this programme purely to satisfy some sort of
quota system or licence agreement?

--
	-- Chris. 	cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk   (on Janet, cc@uk.ac.ed.dcs)
From: dam@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (David Morning)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Accents
Date: 11 Jan 93 12:11:50 GMT
Organization: Glasgow University Computing Science Dept.

jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin) writes:


>Gruesome fact: I read in the paper this week that the Yorkshire education
>authority was making a policy of punishing kids for speaking their local
>dialect in school as recently as 1983.  Presumably this is *still* going
>on unofficially all over the UK.

It still was in Inverclyde about 10 years ago...though maybe a bit more
subtle than 'punishing'...more a gentle nudge in what was perceived to be
the 'correct' way to speak by the method of sarcastic comments and posters
by school teachers. The use of 'youse' by pupils was almost invariably met
by a reference to female sheep while 'malky' elicited the question "Is that
you're brother?"

Last time I was in the school (about 2 years ago) the posters were still up.
During my time at school ye goa^t the bel^t fur sayin' 'youse lot'
Ouch!!

Dave

--
From: morna@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Morna J Findlay)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Colors, Kilt, Social Class
Date: 5 Jan 93 11:07:43 GMT
Reply-To: morna@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Morna J Findlay)
Organization: Laboratory for the Foundations of Computer Science, Edinburgh U

In article <1993Jan4.155743.1@acad3.alaska.edu> nsmca@acad3.alaska.edu writes:
>I know that in ancient Irish society the more colors you wore the higher your
>social class.. Migth also explain the Scots habit of Tartans and Kilts..

I was told once that the Pope ordered that the clergy in Scotland wore
dress of no more than two colours. This is supposedly from where the "clergy"
tartan derives.

In modern colours, this is a very attractive mix of dark blue and dark
green, even richer than "Black Watch" in apperance. In "reproduction"
( supposedly like veggie dyes ) it is a mix of blue/grey and olive
green.

Very nice.

M

-- 
Morna Findlay 					JANET:morna@uk.ac.ed.dcs 
	Thanksgiving For a National Victory (Robert Burns)
Ye hypocrites! are these your pranks? To murder men and give God thanks?
Desist, for shame! Proceed no further: God won't accept your thanks for murther.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.celtic:8668 soc.culture.british:18530
From: mmh@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic,soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: This Favorite Lie Again.
Date: 12 Jan 93 09:24:21 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept, QMW, University of London, UK.

In article <1993Jan11.183640.4284@philabs.philips.com> dml@philabs.philips.com (Damian M. Lyons) writes:
>
>In article <1993Jan6.101550.6899@dcs.qmw.ac.uk>, mmh@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach) writes:
>|>
>|> But this is precisely what has been done. The British
>|> government unilaterally closed down Northern Ireland's devolved
>|> government, and won't restore it until the Unionists agree to a
>|> power-sharing system. The British government has unilaterally
>|> introduced proportional representation into local elections
>|> there (pity they haven't in the rest of the UK) to avoid the
>|> distortions and gerrymandering that can occur under the
>|> first-past-the-post system. What else do you expect them to do
>|> - give every Catholic two votes?
>
>No, just give slightly more democratic muscle to the Nationalist
>block. I suggest the British Government design and unlaterally
>implement a devolved government for NI in which the Nationalist
>block is not hamstrung by a purpose-built Unionist majority which can
>collapse any government it doesn't like.
>
As I said above, the British government won't restore a
devolved government to NI until the Unionists agree to some
sort of power-sharing agreement. The abortive talks that have
been held every so often for the past twenty years have all
fallen down on this - the British and the Nationalists won't
move until power-sharing is agreed, the Unionists refuse to
accept power-sharing.

The real problem in NI is Unionist intransigence which refuses
to accept any sort of compromise. But this intransigence is
fuelled by and is a reaction to the IRA terrorist campaign, and
by a fear that any compromise wil be a step onto a slippery
slope to being forced into the Republic. That is why a lot of
the comments which come up in this newsgroup whenever this
subject is raised are distinctly unhelpful - they are precisely
the sort of thing which leads to Unionist intransigence an a
block on moves forward.

Matthew Huntbach
From: winter@Apple.COM (Patty Winter)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Myth about losing U.S. citizenship (was Re: 1 IRE grandparent=CDN/IRE citizenship)
Date: 8 Jan 93 07:58:52 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Apple Computer Inc, Cupertino, CA

In article <1993Jan5.223330.5855@macc.wisc.edu> oconnell@vms.macc.wisc.edu (Kevin Patrick O'Connell) writes:
>In article <76124@apple.apple.COM>, winter@Apple.COM (Patty Winter) writes...
>
>>Besides, I never had to "apply" for Irish citizenship. I was an Irish 
>>citizen (and a U.S. citizen) the day I was born. The only thing I've
>>ever applied for is passports from both countries. And yes, I obtained
>>written information from the U.S. State Department before applying
>>for the Irish passport, just to make sure it was a cool thing to do.
>>I recommend the same for anyone interested in the subject.
>
>Would you please post/send me the address of the office you wrote to, 
>and the name/particulars of the document they sent you with regard to 
>dual citizenship?  Thanks!!

We didn't write to anyone. We called the nearest office of the U.S.
State Department. I looked around my house last night but couldn't
find the stuff they sent, sorry. Just call them and ask for whatever
information they have on dual citizenship.


>PS--For those in the midwest US, the Irish Consulate in Chicago 
>informed me that the process requires about 4 months, and costs:
>$179 for the registration, and $75 for the passport.  

And just a reminder that if you have/had at least one Irish parent,
you don't need to register before applying for a passport. (Unless
the rules have changed in the past two years.)


Patty

-- 

    :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
    ::   Patty Winter N6BIS	       Internet: winter@apple.com  ::	     
    ::   Sunnyvale, California	       AMPRNet: 44.4.0.44          ::
    :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
From: morna@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Morna J Findlay)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Kilts
Date: 12 Jan 93 16:03:31 GMT
Reply-To: morna@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Morna J Findlay)
Organization: Laboratory for the Foundations of Computer Science, Edinburgh U

In article <C0qFF3.4tr@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk> newt@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Michael Steven Newton) writes:
>
>  Well, the Act in full is only about half a page long, much shorter than
>the amount of drivel we've created by talking about it.  The first one to
>find it and type it in will save us all some time.
>

Oooh!
Somebody got out of the wrong side of bed this week.


I've been quite interested in the content of my postings :-)

There's always the Kill file for old grumpy-guts.


M



-- 
Morna Findlay 					JANET:morna@uk.ac.ed.dcs 
	Thanksgiving For a National Victory (Robert Burns)
Ye hypocrites! are these your pranks? To murder men and give God thanks?
Desist, for shame! Proceed no further: God won't accept your thanks for murther.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: oconnell@vms.macc.wisc.edu (Kevin Patrick O'Connell)
Subject: Re: Myth about losing U.S. citizenship (was Re: 1 IRE grandparent=CDN/IRE citizenship)
Organization:  University of Wisconsin Academic Computing Center
Distribution: usa
Date:  5 JAN 93 16:28:27    

In article <76124@apple.apple.COM>, winter@Apple.COM (Patty Winter) writes...

>In article <1993Jan3.183809.3236@cabell.vcu.edu> dresler@cabell.vcu.edu (Dan Resler) writes:
>>davidson@ccrs.emr.ca (David Davidson) writes:
>>
>>If you're a US citizen, I believe it is the law that you must inform
>>the US government that you are applying for citizenship in another
>>country. If you don't, and they find out, I think they can do all
>>kinds of nasty things, even possibly stripping you of your US
>>citizenship (very unlikely, but possible). 
> 
> 
>As Barbara Vaughan and Richard Anstruther noted in their postings,
>this is simply NOT true. The U.S. Supreme Court forced the State 
>Department years ago to back off on these threats. You have to take
>some very specific actions to jeopardize your U.S. citizenship.
>Simply having another country's passport isn't one of them.
> 
>Besides, I never had to "apply" for Irish citizenship. I was an Irish 
>citizen (and a U.S. citizen) the day I was born. The only thing I've
>ever applied for is passports from both countries. And yes, I obtained
>written information from the U.S. State Department before applying
>for the Irish passport, just to make sure it was a cool thing to do.
>I recommend the same for anyone interested in the subject.
> 
> 
>Patty
> 
>-- 
> 
>    :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
>    ::   Patty Winter N6BIS	       Internet: winter@apple.com  ::	     
>    ::   Sunnyvale, California	       AMPRNet: 44.4.0.44          ::
>    :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Patty, 

Would you please post/send me the address of the office you wrote to, 
and the name/particulars of the document they sent you with regard to 
dual citizenship?  Thanks!!

Kevin

PS--For those in the midwest US, the Irish Consulate in Chicago 
informed me that the process requires about 4 months, and costs:
$179 for the registration, and $75 for the passport.
From: cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Chris Cooke)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Accents
Date: 8 Jan 93 10:55:13 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Edinburgh, Scotland

In article <1993Jan7.202331.11138@vax.oxford.ac.uk> halpin@vax.oxford.ac.uk writes:

   In article <dolonsgh.726424392@unix1.tcd.ie>, dolonsgh@unix1.tcd.ie
   (DL) writes:
   > Shetland islanders in news reports seemed to be speaking in an accent
   > closer to Northern Ireland than Scotland.

   Contrarily, it struck me that there was a slight touch of
   Scandinavian in their accents but that might have been suggestion.

Apparently, it was quite common until a couple of hundred years ago for
islanders there to speak Norn, a dialect of old Norse.  So a touch of
Scandinavian in their accents would make sense.  According to a recent TV
programme, the Shetland dialect of Scots still has a lot of Norse words in
it. 
--
	-- Chris. 	cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk   (on Janet, cc@uk.ac.ed.dcs)
From: morna@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Morna J Findlay)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Speaking Our Language
Date: 11 Jan 93 12:24:27 GMT
Reply-To: morna@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Morna J Findlay)
Organization: Laboratory for the Foundations of Computer Science, Edinburgh U

In article <CC.93Jan11094903@arran.dcs.ed.ac.uk> cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Chris Cooke) writes:
>
>What's going on?  Have STV made this programme purely to satisfy some sort of
>quota system or licence agreement?
>

Yes indeed, one wonders..

Does anyone know if there is a book to go with this series, as there was
for "Can Seo"?

I missed Saturday's episode, but would be interested if anuyone caught
it to hear what they thought.

M


-- 
Morna Findlay 					JANET:morna@uk.ac.ed.dcs 
	Thanksgiving For a National Victory (Robert Burns)
Ye hypocrites! are these your pranks? To murder men and give God thanks?
Desist, for shame! Proceed no further: God won't accept your thanks for murther.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic,soc.culture.british,sci.archaeology,soc.history
From: Suzanne-lucia.Demitrio@launchpad.unc.edu (Suzanne-lucia Demitrio)
Subject: Re: Britain/Ireland 400-1100 AD
Organization: University of North Carolina Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 06:35:33 GMT

In article <28193@dog.ee.lbl.gov> mike@fionn.lbl.gov (Michael Helm) writes:
>I'm going to be taking a class in about a month on the archaeology
>of the period 400-1100 AD in Britain & Ireland.  I'm interested in
>doing some reading about this period beforehand, preferably not
>narrowly archaeological in nature (save that for the class).
>I'd prefer good references to books on its political & cultural / art
>history, & anything else that mite help my understanding of the
>period. 

Primary sources --

Bede's *History of the English Church and People*

The Gododdin, the Mabinogi, the Tain Bo Culaigne, the Llywarch Hen

Secondary sources --

T.G.E. Powell's *The Celts* 

Proinsias Mac Cana's *Celtic Mythology*

I.M. Stead's *Celtic Art*


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Suzanne Lucia                suzanne-lucia.demitrio@launchpad.unc.edu
--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
From: cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Chris Cooke)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Shetland spill
Date: 7 Jan 93 11:12:50 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Edinburgh, Scotland

Also, small droplets of oil are being blown on the wind inland, covering
grass, roads, sheep and anything else in their path with a thin coating of
oil.  Vegetation may be asphyxiated by this, though it's expected to recover.
--
	-- Chris. 	cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk   (on Janet, cc@uk.ac.ed.dcs)