HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: alt.activism
Subject: Re: Nicaragua - documentation
From: demon@desire.wright.edu (Stupendous Man)
Date: 11 Sep 92 11:03:59 EST
 <1992Sep9.231312.4019@desire.wright.edu> <1992Sep10.173250.621@iti.org>
Organization: Demonic Possesions, Inc.

In article <1992Sep10.173250.621@iti.org>, aws@iti.org (Allen W. Sherzer) writes:
> In article <1992Sep9.231312.4019@desire.wright.edu> demon@desire.wright.edu (Stupendous Man) writes:
> 
>>> I prefer to view it as a nice ballance to Harel and company's postings.
> 
>>	But wait, didn't we just read four posts 
> 
> I only saw two (not counting the reruns). Did he post all four sections
> or only the two I saw?
> 
> I was hoping that maybe he stopped in mid-rant and realized he wasn't
> addressing the question of if he supports Sandinista human rights abuses.
> If so, maybe he is, even as I write this, thinking about the question. But
> I'm not holding my breath.
> 
>>worth of Chomsky-speak which
>>said that being one-sided was ok?
> 
> Well only if you are on the correct side.
> 
> 
> But you know, if I where a bit more long winded it might be interesting
> to apply Chomsky's theories to Chomsky, Harel, and the whole gang themselves.
> With the way Harel calls everthing he doesn't agree with a lie and the
> nice, safe, protected from bad thoughts newsgroup they have I'll bet
> it would be interesting.
> 
	Someone did back in the 70s.  (For Chomsky, that is :).  The result was
a long-winded (of course!) book that basically boiled down to:

	Either Chomsky is playing a giant joke of doublespeak using his
knowledge of linguistics, or decided that there was a LOT of money to be made
via doublespeak.

	Guess we'll never know unless the Noamster publishes "Memoirs of a
double-plus ungood dissident".
:)

Brett                                                      
_______________________________________________________________________________
Proconsul Computer Consulting                                        CHA-CHING!
Better, Cheaper, Faster					       (Pick any two :)
Disclaimer:								   NOT!
Newsgroups: alt.activism
From: mvp@netcom.com (Mike Van Pelt)
Subject: Re: LaRouche:  Why I Demand an End to The Death Penalty Throuought The U.S.
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 04:40:47 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <138-PCNews-124beta@ccs.covici.com> covici@ccs.covici.com
posts LaRouche essay `Why I demand an end to the death penalty in the
United States'

Sounds 100% pure left-liberal to me.  Some of it I agree with
(the sorry state of our prisons).  Some of it I disagree with,
but respect the argument.  And some of it (the "America is the
worst police state on the face of the earth" bovine excrement)
is pernicious nonsense straight from the streets of Berserkley.

Tell me again how this man is a right-winger...

-- 
Mike Van Pelt                          Here lies a Technophobe,
mvp@netcom.com                            No whimper, no blast.
mvp@hsv3.lsil.com                      His life's goal accomplished,
                                          Zero risk at last.
From: harelb@math.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: alt.activism
Date: 04 Sep 92 16:53 PDT
Subject: 3RD WORLD RESOURCES V8 N3: BOOKS: N
Nf-ID: #N:9209042351.AA01816@poly.math.cor:665848109:000:2360
Nf-From: math.cornell.edu!harelb    Sep  4 16:53:00 1992


From: harelb@math.cornell.edu (Harel Barzilai)
Subject: 3RD WORLD RESOURCES V8 N3: BOOKS: NICARAGUA

[Via misc.activism.progressive from PeaceNet's twr.nl]
 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
        The following is from the quarterly magazine, THIRD WORLD
        RESOURCES: A QUARTERLY REVIEW OF RESOURCES FROM AND ABOUT THE THIRD
        WORLD; subscriptions to the 24-page hardcopy edition are $35/year
        (organizations) and $35/two years (individuals). For rates outside
        North America, write to: Third World Resources, 464 19th Street,
        Oakland, CA 94612-2297 USA. See also their conference `twr.nl' on
        PeaceNet, or email to tfenton@igc.org (Tom Fenton) 
 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Topic 123       BOOKS, 8:3 - 1992       Response 10 of 16 
tfenton 
twr.nl  11:09 am  Jul  8, 1992 
 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

***<NICARAGUANS TALKING: CASE STUDY MATERIALS FOR SECONDARY  
SCHOOLS.> Duncan Green. Latin America Bureau, 1 Amwell St.,  
London EC1R 1UL, England. 1989. 133 pp. L4.95/$12. ISBN 0- 
906156-50-5. Photographs, graphs, charts, illustrations,  
list of resources, maps. 

Latin America Bureau has done educators a great service by  
publishing this workbook by Duncan Green that uses  
interviews, photographs, cartoons, and statistics to give  
14-16 year-old students a look at Nicaragua through the eyes  
of its inhabitants. 

Teachers can "dip into" nine self-contained sections to  
stimulate discussion of topics such as measuring  
development, North-South trade links, land reform, life  
under Somoza, the Sandinista revolution, and the history of  
U.S.-Nicaraguan relations. The book is ideal for geography  
and history classes. 

Although the workbook has some specific references to  
Britain, its many diverse learning activities will have a  
universal appeal. Teacher's aids within each section and  
word-boxes highlight and define new vocabulary. Materials in  
the spiral-bound workbook are free of copyright and thus can  
be photocopied  for classroom use. 

<Nicaraguans Talking> is entertaining as well as  
educational. The use of direct quotations encourages  
students to search for the truth by taking the side of a  
Nicaraguan peasant or an American general. A superb  
workbook!
From: aq817@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Steve Crocker)
Newsgroups: alt.activism
Subject: Re: Lyndon LaRouche & the Liberty L
Date: 5 Sep 92 08:37:52 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous message here, I appeared to say:
 
 
>From: Steve.Crocker@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Steve Crocker)
>Subject: Re: Lyndon LaRouche & the Liberty L
>Date: Fri Sep  4 04:18:45 1992
 
>-Steve
>(Contact me at aq817@Cleveland.Freenet.edu - not the address in
>the header above)
 
>--
>   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
>     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
>        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
>           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
 
 
In actual fact there was a body to the message, which somehow got omitted.
 
What I said was, that one of the few things that Libertarians and 
LaRouche supporters could agree on is that calling LaRouche a 
Libertarian constitutes "blood libel". The question of precisely WHO is 
being libeled is an interesting one, however.
 
-Steve
(back at my regular site)
Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.save.the.earth
From: harelb@math.cornell.edu (misc.activism.progressive co-moderator)
Subject: Re GATT & Re The Next Banking Crisis
Followup-To: alt.activism.d
Originator: daemon@pencil.cs.missouri.edu
Organization: misc.activism.progressive on UseNet ; ACTIV-L@UMCVMB
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 23:06:22 GMT


The following addresses for ACORN, Public Citizen, et al, are useful
for anyone wanting to get involved...


Harel


Topic 16        S&L Scandal: Background & Resources     Response  2 of  7 
harelb 
Info resources on econ justice issues    8:10 pm  Jun  9, 1992 
(at math.cornell.edu) 

From: harelb@math.cornell.edu (Harel Barzilai) 
Subject: S&L Scandal: Background & Resources 
            ============================================= 
            R E S O U R C E :   O R G A N I Z A T I O N S 
            ============================================= 

The "Taxpayer's Revolt" ad appeared in a special issue of The Nation, 
"The Looting Decade" [Nov. 19, 1990] focusing on the S&L Scandal. 
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 
I highly recommend this issue's extensive coverage of the S&L scandal 
to anyone who thinks they've heard the half of it as far as the extent 
of the S&L mess, and who wants to find out more. For something like 
$3, shipping included, you can order back issues of The Nation at 
(212) 242-8400. The same issue included the following information: 

"The main citizens' groups working on issues surrounding the bailout 
are the Southern Finance Project, Acorn (the Association of Community 
Organizations for Reform Now) and Public Citizen. The first two groups 
underpin the Financial Democracy Campaign, a broad alliance of more 
than 400 community organizations, unions, churches, consumer groups, 
civil rights groups and small business organizations." 

Some addresses are given below; I will post separately some more 
information about Public Citizen, which was founded by Ralph Nader in 
1971, as well as Citizens for Tax Justice. 

Acorn 
522 8th St., SE 
Washington, DC 20003 
(202) 547-9292 or (800)759-8557 

Common Cause 
2030 M St., NW 
Washington, DC 20036 
(202)833-1200 

Financial Democracy Campaign 
604 W. Chapel Hill St. 
Durham, NC 27702 
(919)687-4004, or (800)759-8557 

Public Citizen 
2000 P St., NW 
Washington, DC 20036 
(202)293-9142 

Southern Finance Project 
329 Renssselear 
Charlotte, NC 28203 
(704)372-7072 

Conf? 
Newsgroups: alt.activism
From: kd1hz@anomaly.sbs.risc.net (Michael P. Deignan)
Subject: Re: disparity between rich and poor widening
Organization: The Rhode Island Internet Systems Cooperative Network
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 01:04:46 GMT

rogerl@Ingres.COM (Roger Leuthner) writes:

>I'll waste my time on you and explain it further.  If you require more
>explanation than what follows, I suggest grade school.

Ah yes, the all-so-popular personal slur. You know you've won your
argument when the opposition must resort to name calling.

>It took 51% of the wage earning units* to earn an amount equivalent to
>that earned by the highest paid 4% (also wage earning units, which is why
>the distinction is irrelevant) in 1989, while in 1959 it took 35% to earn
>an amount equivalent to the highest paid 4%.

I'm glad you said that. Too bad your original posting didn't say it.


MD
-- 
--  Michael P. Deignan                      / Sex is hereditary. If your 
--  Domain: mpd@anomaly.sbs.com            /  parents never had it, chances 
--    UUCP: ...!uunet!rayssd!anomaly!mpd  /   are you won't either...
-- Telebit: +1 401 455 0347              /
Newsgroups: alt.activism
Subject: Re: Lyndon LaRouche & the Liberty L
From: kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca (Ken Mcvay)
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 92 16:27:25 GMT
Organization: The Old Frog's Almanac, Vancouver Island, CANADA

In article <18ju0pINNbbc@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> aq817@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Steve Crocker) writes:

>Well, maybe there's less here than meets the eye. My impression of 
>fascist political movements is that they organize on the basis of
>hatred, by appealing to the most ignorant and violent tendencies 
>among the masses. I would expect a fascist political leader to
>engourage blood lust among his supporters, and terror on the part 
>of his opponents. The death penalty does both. 

They also organized through the use of deception and deceit, as they
realized their agenda is simply unacceptable to the masses. Everyone here
seems to have overlooked that and forged ahead with the mistaken assumption
that fascist organizations tell us things we can actually believe.

>To organize AGAINST the death penalty, on the other hand, is to 
>appeal to reason. It is virtually impossible to speak against
>the death penalty without saying, in effect, "stop and think".
>All the arguements that have been made against the death penalty
>ask the person in the street to suspend their first reaction of
>outrage at some heinous and brutal crime and ask questions like
>"do we really KNOW this is the guilty person", "does execution REALLY
>deter further crimes, or does it just give us a self-righteous rush
>of justified vengence", and finally, "regardless of what a murderer
>has done to others, is he not also a soul o fpotential value? Is
>he not capable of acts of love and beauty just as we are capable of
>acts of depravity? Do we really want to sink to his level?"

>Somehow, it is hard to imagine a fascist constituency being 
>effectively organized to go attack some scapegoat group by
>first being encouraged to ponder such questions.

>Or is it ME that's missing something?

Yes, indeed... During research relating to the beginnings of the Nazi death
camps, one thing quickly became clear. The program to euthanize mental
patients and others was operated in the strictist secrecy. Hitler understood
full well the German people would simply not tolerate such actions, so he
deliberately kept it from them.

In short, why should anyone believe a fascist organization that claims to
oppose the death penalty? LaRouche's in particular - the man's demented
ravings frighten me, particularly when I realize that there are folks out
there who (1) not only claim to _understand_ his rants, but to _agree_ with
them. Scary stuff indeed.

>
>-Steve


-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Old Frog's Almanac - Public Access UseNet for Central Vancouver Island
     (604) 245-3205 (v32) (604) 245-4366 (2400x4) Waffle XENIX 1.64
Ladysmith, British Columbia, CANADA. kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca (Ken McVay)
From: 9051467f@levels.unisa.edu.au
Newsgroups: alt.activism
Subject: <None>
Date: 5 Sep 92 19:45:08 +0930
Organization: University of South Australia

Yeah, the idea of a relaxing 1 hour ride in a spacious, comfortable train
carriage is much better than having to fight your way thru peak traffic.
However, if I couldn't be sure what type of person is likely to hop on and sit
near me, then I would be more inclined to opt for the relative security of my
car. I'd be quite willing to pay more (say $2 or $3) to get onto a carriage
with entry standards than one with no standards and jam packed with people you
don't know. The idea of being forced to mix it with hoi polloi isn't to
flash... Privatise rail and give them right of way over cars and allow them to
bring back split classes.
If given half a chance, rail companies should make a killing over cars in an ad
war.

--
John McVey, Whyalla campus, Uni S.Australia
Electronic Engineering Student & Terror Tekkie G1 (at 19!)
9051467f@levels.unisa.edu.au, or try
9051467f@wh.whyalla.unisa.edu.au
'An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it.'  Don Marquis
'Those who believe in an afterlife won't be disappointed'  Me
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Obligatory disclaimer : UniSA hates my opinions...			     |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: alt.activism
From: bobh@troy.uucp (22131-hettmansperger)
Subject: Re: disparity between rich and poor widening
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 14:41:40 GMT

In article <1992Sep12.010446.7800@anomaly.sbs.risc.net> kd1hz@anomaly.sbs.risc.net (Michael P. Deignan) writes:
>rogerl@Ingres.COM (Roger Leuthner) writes:
>
>>It took 51% of the wage earning units* to earn an amount equivalent to
>>that earned by the highest paid 4% (also wage earning units, which is why
>>the distinction is irrelevant) in 1989, while in 1959 it took 35% to earn
>>an amount equivalent to the highest paid 4%.
>
>I'm glad you said that. Too bad your original posting didn't say it.
>
>
>MD

I obviously can't speak for anyone else on the net, but I certainly had
no problem understanding the original post.

So what exactly were you disagreeing with?  The numbers themself, or the
way that you *thought* someone might interpret them (seeing as how the
original post made no effort to do anything other than present them)?

-Bob
Newsgroups: alt.activism
Subject: Re: Ohio Ethnic Intimidation Law
From: demon@desire.wright.edu (Stupendous Man)
Date: 15 Sep 92 13:52:30 EST
Organization: Demonic Possesions, Inc.

In article <P76uqB2w165w@bluemoon.rn.com>, monstman@bluemoon.rn.com (Kevin A. Keefe) writes:
...
> I'm one of the peace and harmony crowd and I DON'T support gun
> control. I wish the right to bear arms, if for no other reason
> than to protect myself from facist assholes like YOU.
>  
> You don't know diddly-squat about "The Republic." Why don't
> you take the bullshit to another .sig and leave the REAL
> activists alone?

	Bigot.

Brett                                                      
_______________________________________________________________________________
Proconsul Computer Consulting                                        CHA-CHING!
Better, Cheaper, Faster					       (Pick any two :)
Disclaimer:								   NOT!
Newsgroups: alt.activism,talk.politics.misc,soc.culture.latin-america
From: aws@iti.org (Allen W. Sherzer)
Subject: Re: The Crimes of Nicaragua (II)
Organization: Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 22:14:02 GMT

In article <casseres-100992114323@missmolly.apple.com> casseres@apple.com (David Casseres) writes:

>There were rights abuses by the Sandinistas, but they were in no way
>comparable to the wholesale terrorism of the contras.

Given the abuses which are only now coming to light I don't think this
is a defensable statement. A lot of mass graves filled with Sandinista
opponents have been turning up recently. Not to mention the campaign
of revenge killing recently being directed at former contras.

>I've never
>heard *any* evidence that there was any popular opposition to the
>Sandinistas' rights abuses; 

1. Since expressing opposition to rights abuses was illegal and could
   land you in jail (without charge) or dead this should come as no
   suprise.
2. Saying people didn't object (even if true) is hardly the defense
   you seem to think it is.

>it looks like these abuses were largely
>accepted as necessary in the fight against the contras.

Ah yes, the old 'ends justifies the means' arguement.

Hmmm... Maybe people in El Salvador accepted the death squads as
necessary in the fight against the FMLN.

Well if nothing else Mike, you get points from me for admitting
there where abuses. That makes you better than Harel and his wall
of silence on the issue.

  Allen
-- 
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Allen W. Sherzer | "If they can put a man on the Moon, why can't they     |
|  aws@iti.org     |  put a man on the Moon?"                               |
+----------------------226 DAYS TO FIRST FLIGHT OF DCX----------------------+
Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.save.the.earth
From: ECL4JN2@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (Jack Newsbaum)
Subject: Re: Who's "free-er"? Intrnat'l response wanted!
Date: 14 Sep 92 10:55:24 PDT

In article <2AB24A56.16385@news.service.uci.edu>, on 12 Sep 92 19:51:50 GMT,
cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:

>
>In article <1wwn3dg.adamsr@netcom.com> adamsr@netcom.com (Rick Adams) writes:
>>
>>       One problem which had been an obstacle for both the anti WoD and the
>>anti WoG groups has been the adament position taken by the majority of the
>>pro-gun groups that the WoD is fair, that those who have nothing to hide
>>should not care about being searched, etc.
>
>This is a major inconsistency in the pro-gun/WoD camp.  "If you are
>innocent, then what are you so afraid of?" they ask.
>
>Well, okay, if you're innocent, then why are you so afraid of background
>checks and waiting periods?
>
>This is a < P ^ ~P > situation.  Ever study number theory, people?
>
Because it allows the government to infringe upon a right protected
in the Constitution. Using this logic, nobody should be afraid of
a law requiring a waiting period for somebody to exercise one's right
of free speech, or a law requiring a waiting period before a newspaper
can publish an article. After all, the use of speech or press by some
people can also be exercised with deadly effect.

 ^stuff deleted

>What shall we call this, then?  < Q ^ ~Q >?  While I understand how some
>people want a gun (I have shot 227/300 myself and low 40's with my bow,
>so I am not emoitionally averse to them), I really don't think the
>Founding Fathers knew about assault weapons when they wrote the thing.
>Besidesw, why hasn't anyone pointed out the fact that the right to keep
>and bear arms is there for the purpose of CIVILIAN MILITIA?  Does this
>then mean that you can keep a gun if you are PART of a civil militia?
>Why is it that we talk so much about the "right to keep and bear arms,"
>and no one ever talks about the citizens' responsibility to use them as
>part of a civilian militia?  We ignore the whole first part of the
>amendment.
>
Just because there is a clause in the second Amendment stating a reason
why the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed upon does
not change the categorical nature of the right. It wouldn't make the
least bit of difference if the right were not necessary for the
operation of a well-regulated militia; the prohibition upon the
government against infringement is nonetheless present.

>Regards,
>Janis C.
>
    ====Jack====
Newsgroups: alt.activism,talk.politics.misc,soc.culture.latin-america
From: dld@cs.monash.edu.au (David L Dowe)
Subject: Re: Peace Research Centre, Australian National University
Keywords: Australia, Australian National University, ANU, Peace Research Centre,PRC
Organization: Computer Science, Monash University, Australia
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 02:51:51 GMT

dld@cs.monash.edu.au (Seeking ANU) writes:

>   Hello.  I am looking for the e-mail address of the Peace Research Centre
>(PRC) at the Australian National University (ANU).  In particular, I am looking
>for the e-mail address of one of the PRC's staff, Ms W R Lambourne.

>Any help greatly appreciated.

>Thank you.

>Regards,  David D.
{whoever} @coombs.anu.edu.au
Newsgroups: alt.activism,talk.politics.misc
From: pjm@anegada.sps.mot.com (Patrick J. McGuinness)
Subject: Re: Who Were the "Contras" ? (III)
Organization: Motorola Inc., Austin TX
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 23:57:08 GMT

In article <1992Sep11.001016.17964@oracle.us.oracle.com> rchilder@us.oracle.com (Richard Childers) writes:
>aws@iti.org (Allen W. Sherzer) writes:
>
>>Edelmiro Salas recently posted a similar account except that the 
>>Sandinistas where killing the civilians they didn't like. So Harel,
>>are you willing to condem these Sandinista killings and other human
>>rights abuses?
>
>Allen, why don't you quit whining and do something like Harel ?

NO, don't do it please!  Posting overly long, senseless drivel multiple times
(you'd think once would be enough) is really not necessary.

> Take
>it upon yourself to provide a balanced insight into the news, get some
>right-wing channels and post their side.

Isn't that what he's doing? ... keep it up Allen.


Pat, PhD
Newsgroups: alt.activism,talk.politics.misc,soc.culture.latin-america
From: casseres@apple.com (David Casseres)
Newsgroups: alt.activism
Subject: Re: The Crimes of Nicaragua (II)
Date: 10 Sep 92 18:46:59 GMT
Followup-To: alt.activism,talk.politics.misc,soc.culture.latin-america
Organization: Apple Computer Inc.

In article <1992Sep7.143659.245@iti.org>, aws@iti.org (Allen W. Sherzer)
wrote:
> 
> I have no problem with the revolution which threw Somozza out. Indeed
> it had widespread support; although this support didn't extend to the
> Sandinsitas.

It certainly did.  Even when the Sandinistas lost the Presidency, they
retained many seats in the Assembly.

> What the people of Nicaragua objected to is the rights abuses which where
> at least as bad as the Contras. They objected to the attempt by the
> Sandinistas to control the government with their own private army.

There were rights abuses by the Sandinistas, but they were in no way
comparable to the wholesale terrorism of the contras.  Nicaraguans had a
number of problems with the Sandinistas, basically economic.  I've never
heard *any* evidence that there was any popular opposition to the
Sandinistas' rights abuses; it looks like these abuses were largely
accepted as necessary in the fight against the contras.  Nor have I ever
heard of much popular opposition to the Sandinistas' use of the army.

David Casseres
Exclaimer: Wow!
Newsgroups: alt.activism,talk.politics.misc,talk.environment,alt.save.the.earth