HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: schroede@bnlux1.bnl.gov (gary l. schroeder)
Subject: Re: qualities in men
Organization: Brookhaven National Laboratory, Upton, NY 11973
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 21:51:56 GMT

In article <93012.103326IDJMW@ASUACAD.BITNET> <IDJMW@ASUACAD.BITNET>jo writes:

>why is it so difficult for men to understand that not all women are looking
>for "romance" and "commitment" and true love and hearts and flowers and
>all that bullshit? why do they assume we have all these expectations and
>foist them upon us? 

Maybe it's because we're constantly deluged with information (or
opinions) to the contrary?  It seems like every time I flip on the TV
some woman is saying "what's happened to romance?  why are men only
trying to get in our pants?  I want flowers, dinners, cuddling and
intimacy!"  It would seem to me that most of the women that I've known,
including the one that I'm involved with now really appreciate the
sentiment.  Not only that, I enjoy expressing it.  And what's wrong
with a little commitment in the world when so many people seem to want
it and so few are willing to give it?  I personally find it reassuring to
know that someone wants to be with me beyond tomorrow morning.

>why don't they believe us when we say they're wrong?
>why can't they treat us as a human being first and a woman second?

Does being treated as a human being exclude being treated like a woman?
I didn't know that one precluded the other.


>why is it that when a woman pursues a friendship, a relationship, she's
>seen as being obsessed, as being pushy, as foisting herself upon some
>poor man? 

It isn't always seen that way.  You're making a generalization.

>why is it that when a man does the same thing, he's being
>friendly and outgoing and sociable? why is it that when a woman is
>friendly and outgoing and sociable, some man feels she's "leading
>him on"?

That's not universally true either, although it sounds like it describes
the situation you currently find _yourself_ in.  Sounds like you're
grappling with the age old question of the male/female platonic
relationship.



-- 
--------------
Gary Schroeder  		
schroede@bnlux1.bnl.gov        
Brookhaven National Laboratory 
Newsgroups: alt.angst
From: toj8j@fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU (prufrock)
Subject: Re: you win some, you lose some (kinda long)
Organization: University of Virginia
Distribution: usa 
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 04:54:34 GMT

In article <1993Jan4.180447.26155@ncsu.edu> jecoleb@eos.ncsu.edu writes:
>
>My New Year's Eve sucked, but here's a few thoughts on a VERY surreal 
>winter break:

(What seemed like a good alt.romance.chat story which turned out to be about
the creation of a *gasp!nooo!* long-distance-relationship story deleted)
>
>So, for the Misunderstood College Guys out there, good news and bad news:
>YES, there are attractive, personable, intelligent, witty women out there who
> 	are attracted to shy, sensitive, "forlorn-looking" types.
>UNFORTUNATELY, I seem to have taken yet another one out of circulation. :-P

Thanks for telling us, Jeff...  I was coping pretty well with my Vow of
Celibacy (TM) until your post.  And then you rub salt into the wound with
your "UNFORTUNATELY" line...

>(Of course, my ex here in Raleigh had to one-up me by deciding to MARRY the
>guy she's been sleeping with for the past two months.  So much for pathos.) :)

Ain't *that* fun to find out!  When MY old LDR told me that she had decided
to get married, I was in shock for three days.  Total emotional death.

You can't fool ME, though, Jeff.  None of this has really happened--you're
just one of those sadistic bastards from alt.romance.chat who likes to
feed stuff here to make those of us mired in abstinence even more miserable
than we already are, AREN'T you????

(I can't decide whether or not to put a smiley after that.)

--prufrock (toj8j@virginia.edu, who wears his beard as a sign of his Vow(TM) )
From: parkhugj@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Gregory J Parkhurst)
Newsgroups: alt.angst
Subject: Proof & honesty
Date: 11 Jan 1993 05:31:35 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department at Rose-Hulman
Reply-To: parkhugj@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Gregory J Parkhurst)
NNTP-Posting-Host: g222-28.nextwork.rose-hulman.edu

In article <1993Jan10.185635.3143@csd.uwe.ac.uk> ma_blase@csd.uwe.ac.uk (Fox)  
writes:

> The second way is more subtle.  When someone asks you a question answer it.
> Fully.  Leave nothing out.  Ever.  Human nature is such that if you provide
> all the facts about yourself when asked the other person will almost always
> assume you are hiding something, normally relating the amount you are hiding
> with the relative 'importance' of that which is asked.  You don't need to
> try to fool them, they fool themselves.  The proof of the information you 
> supply to the person will be totally unavaiable to them due to the fact that
> they fabricated a sizable chunck of the answer themelves.

I find this particularly sad - you can be completely honest, but people will  
automatically assume that you are "playing the game", that is, trying to answer  
their questions in a way they will _perceive_ as honest; manipulating the  
information you give them to achieve a desired result.  They try to decode what  
you have given them, the truth as best as you are able to express it, and end  
up muddling the message as a result.

The choices are:
Be honest and risk being misinterpreted.
Play the game and risk being misinterpreted.

Misunderstandings are going to happen.  It's inevitable that with everyone  
having their own view of the world and using imperfect means of communication,  
what you say isn't necessarily going to be what the other person hears.  This  
is assuming that people actually say what's on their minds...but how often does  
this happen?  No, now you have to assume that what you're hearing isn't what's  
on someone's mind, but what they want you to think is on their mind...three  
cheers for playing the game and another three for almighty tact.

I hate being misunderstood.
  
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Greg Parkhurst         Nocturn@VR |           "Something clever"       
parkhugj@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu |                  -Someone clever
Newsgroups: alt.angst
From: callahan@biffvm.cs.jhu.edu (Paul Callahan)
Subject: Re: you win some, you lose some (kinda long)
Organization: Johns Hopkins Computer Science Department, Baltimore, MD
Distribution: usa 
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 20:39:45 GMT

jecoleb@eos.ncsu.edu (have clue, will travel) writes:

>ALT.ROMANCE.CHAT?

>*cocks a very LARGE rifle*

>Them's fightin' words, son.  a.r.c. is a swampland of *HUG*s and dripping
>tales of love from the insides of Hallmark cards.  I'd rather subscribe to
>alt.sex.bestiality.hamster.duct-tape; the conversation's on a higher level.

Actually, the people on a.r.c sorta remind me of hamsters.

--
"I would rather be torn to pieces by the poison-clawed cat, than to suffer one
instant of acceptance by the resident intellectuals of rec.arts.books." 
     [slightly modified; attribution left as an exercise to the reader]
              -- Paul Callahan, callahan@biffvm.cs.jhu.edu --
Newsgroups: alt.angst
From: rajar@herky.cs.uiowa.edu (Chandrashekar Rajaraman)
Subject: Re:General Theory of Depression
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 01:39:09 GMT
Reply-To: rajar@herky.cs.uiowa.edu (Chandrashekar Rajaraman)
Organization: U of Iowa, Iowa City, IA

Subject: Re: General Theory of Depression
Newsgroups: alt.angst

From article <1993Jan12.121945.6300@leland.Stanford.EDU>, by tullfan@leland.Stanford.EDU (Richard Thompson):
> In article <1993Jan12.102705.20306@cs.tu-berlin.de> gosper@opal.cs.tu-berlin.de (Carsten) writes:
>>present.
> For along time I was trying to recapture my old life!  But I don't see how I
> could.  I mean I've experienced so much since then--my old life was based
> on being pleasantly naive--how does one go back to that?  I feel permanantly
> cynical!  I feel like I'm going to have to get a totally new way to look at it
> all.  And you're right trying to find a "meaning" really does make things 
> worse!  Cuz there is none, and if you're wanting to find one badly, your're
> just going to be heartbroken--exactly what happened to me...
> 
> So where does your peace of mind come from?  How do you deal with so much 
> being beyond your ability to change things?  Is it just having friends around
> that helps you deal?

Hi,

This is my first post to this newsgroup and I have
been reading it for only two weeks or so, so
dont flame me if this post does not belong here.

I am twenty-four and have been feeling things similar
to those descrived above, for the last two years or
so. Then, I discovered "When All You've Ever
Wanted Isn't Enough: In Search of a Life That Matters"
- Harold Kushner (is this a well-known book, or
is HK well-known ?).
I found many soul-calming ideas in it. 
I recommend it strongly.

Chandra
-----------------------
Blame it all on me and me alone.
       - Ch.

Organization: Junior, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: alt.angst
Date: Fri,  8 Jan 1993 12:03:46 -0500 
From: "Stephen M. Lacy" <sl31+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: New Years Eve to top ALL!!!


Really, I can't imagine a more angstful New Years. Ok here's where I
have to start, 

Lets begin by saying that I broke up with my SO sometime around December
12th or soo, I'm not sure of the real date.  Yes, I did the breaking up.
 I'm not sure why, but it just wasn't right.  We had been having an
average relationship for almost a year and a half, but average just
wasn't good enough for me.  Also, one of the other reasons that I broke
up with her is that I felt that she was the only friend that I had,
which is bad.  I have people that I had known years ago, but since I had
been going out with her, I didn't see much of them, ever.  

Lets continue.  I'll also say that I had no place to go this winter
break, so I rented myself an apartment for the month, and stayed here
and worked at my job.  No big deal, except that a college campus during
winter break is one of the most lonely places on the face of the earth. 
I enjoyed it for a while, but after about three weeks, it really gets
lonely, especially when you're going through "relationship withdrawl" 
Yea, try sex for a year then absolutely nothing.  Try always having
someone to talk to, then having no one.  

Lets continue.  So, I was going to my fathers house in Connecticut for a
week, the week that contained New Years.  I have a couple friends, that
I met while my x-SO and I were going out, the kind of mutual friend
thing.  I had no one left to go to, so I decided to take a drive up to
their house to go to their New Years party.  Cool, for a few hours I
could think that I actually had friends.  Well, with all these plans
made, two days before the party, I get a call from "her" telling me that
shes decided to take a bus from Pittsburgh to Connecticut to go to the
same party.  Wonderful, twist the knife faster, please.  

So, we're at the party.  I'm in a room of 20 people I don't know, 2 I
do, and one I despise.  Well, "she" get's fairly drunk, and decides that
we should talk.  Its now about 11pm New Years Eve.  I'm completely
sober.  So, we talk for an hour, both of us cry, I want sex worse than
I've ever wanted it before.  We hear the people in the other room
counting down, TEN, NINE, EIGHT, SEVEN, SIX, FIVE, FOUR, THREE, TWO,
ONE, YEAAAAAAAAAAAA....  She looks at me, we give each other a peck of a
kiss, and she says "Happy New Years" breaks into tears, and runs
upstairs.  I get in my car and drive home, listening to the new Peter
Gabriel Album (which BTW, was composed by him during his break up with
his wife)  

And, just to top things off a little more, I'll add the fact that my
x-SO's birthday just happens to be January 1st.

Top that.

Steve


"I get one last phone call?  Can a dial up and check my mail?"

Newsgroups: alt.angst
From: tullfan@leland.Stanford.EDU (Richard Thompson)
Subject: Re: General Theory of Depression
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 20:54:00 GMT


>Basically the intelligent approach, in my opinion, is to trust no one
>until they warrant the trust. Regard no one as rational until they
>prove to be such.
>

Yep...I would agree with you there.  I learned that these last few years...I 
wish I had learned it alot earlier!  I've been a trusting person all my
life--i just believed people were naturally good.  That belief has been 
shattered.

oh well...

rich.



-- 
"For I am a Bear of Very Little Brain,
     and big words Bother me."
	-Winnie-the-Pooh
Newsgroups: alt.angst
From: tullfan@leland.Stanford.EDU (Richard Thompson)
Subject: General Theory of Depression
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 93 10:58:43 GMT


This is the first time I've actually spent any time reading alt.angst, and 
I must say its damn scary how closely I relate to what's written here.
Realizing things-are-naturally-fucked-up-and-there's-nothing-you-can-do-about-
it-so-you's-damn-well-better-get-used-to-it is really tough on one's psyche.
From this group and from people I know in the ever so dreary real world it 
seems to me that there are two ways angst will affect a person.  One:  the
angst will just make life seem even more a joke than it always has--the person
manages to maintain a good sense of humor about it most of the time and, aside
from having to sit alone in a dark room and cry every once in awhile, they 
are quite capable of getting on with his or her life and have an alright time
of it.  Two: the angst becomes overwhelming; the victim seeks nothing more 
than to find a corner or hole to hide in, away from reality, and ultimately
decides the only true escape from it is death...they stop living long before
they die. 

I have always had a pretty strong sense that human society is inherently full
of contradictions that could drive the strongest insane, but I was always the
first type of angst ridden person and I was often HAPPY.  I am moving towards
the second and have been for at least six months now.  I am never happy--manic
occasionally, but certainly not happy.  I don't enjoy life (at least not the
things that made up life thus far) any more, and thus have stopped living
all together.  Beauty in music, nature, humans is what kept me on this
fucking planet for twenty years--but for some reason, it now longer re-
vitalizes me like it used to.  

I figure at this rate I will either have to get religeoius or find a nice
high bridge...

one thread that caught my interest: the reason nice guys often finish last is
because something about this society makes alot of women not comfortable in 
a relationship unless there is some degree of emotional or even physical 
abuse.  I know this to be true of women I've dated.  Something about nurturing
and loving didn't appeal--maybe its the desire to have a macho destructive 
male (after all that is the male image that is appreciated in our society).

tha's all...

any
 advice
  truly 
   appreciated

rich.
-- 
"For I am a Bear of Very Little Brain,
     and big words Bother me."
	-Winnie-the-Pooh
Newsgroups: alt.angst
From: kilroy@acme.gen.nz (earthbound misfit, I)
Subject: Re: Petty "relationship angst"
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 93 07:56:26 GMT
Organization: ACME BBS - Public Access Usenet, Palmerston North, New Zealand
Reply-To: kilroy@acme.gen.nz (earthbound misfit, I)

conty@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (E. Kontei) writes:

> Last time I quit reading alt.angst, it was a-plenty with petty
> "relationship angst" stories, often told by people who would rather
> complain than get off their angsty a**es and DO something about
> their situation.
> 
> I see things haven't changed.  Pity.

Does this mean you're quitting again? Promise?

						- k
-- 
Craig Harding            kilroy@acme.gen.nz             ACME BBS +64 6 3551342
"Jub'er lbh pnyyvat n obmb?"
From: callahan@biffvm.cs.jhu.edu (Paul Callahan)
Newsgroups: alt.angst
Subject: Re: General Theory of Depression
Date: 12 Jan 93 00:30:54 GMT
Organization: Johns Hopkins Computer Science Department, Baltimore, MD

callahan@biffvm.cs.jhu.edu I write:

>Ever been in a relationship where the woman effectively refused to grant
>straightforward, honest consent to various physical things, so she could
>minimize guilt by foisting off all the responsibility on you?

>Anyhow, I think I've been in that situation, and I find the mindgames get
>extremely aggravating after a while.  I'm basically a straightforward person,
>and I was "competing" with guys who were more or less willing to take what
>they could get without worrying too much about being honest.

Or am I just the only person in the entire world who gives a damn about 
honesty?  Given the lack of response, I'm beginning to wonder.

--
Paul Callahan (callahan@biffvm.cs.jhu.edu)   
..who wouldn't mind Usenet so much, 
except you have to go out for espresso,
and there's nobody shouting "Go, Daddy, Go!"
Newsgroups: alt.angst
From: hjb@netcom.com (H. J. Bae)
Subject: Re: Lost that (!?!?!?!!) Feeling
Organization: Peaceful Star Project
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 03:45:21 GMT

In article <93011.133142IDJMW@ASUACAD.BITNET> <IDJMW@ASUACAD.BITNET>Jo (a ghost of her former self) writes:
>
>who WAS that man kissing that redhead's cheek? what evil intent does he
>have for her? and can i shout loud enuf for her to hear me??

he *is* the twilight eager to please, who sometimes confuses his own
compulsion to please with the sense of dutifulness, in his proteanness,
bringing people back, and when they come back with their problems, shuts
the door, behind every one of which still murmur of a woman crying
disspates thru your bones. the shout will do no good, for his act of
kissing the girl is not of love, but of the same brutality one revels
in as one tastes the blood on one's pistol engulfed by a rose of splashing
liquid bursting out of the head of the victim.



love
hwajin


-- 
hjb@netcom.com
From: rwd4f@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Rob Dobson)
Subject: Re: people make my brain hurt.
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 17:47:31 GMT

In article <86097@ut-emx.uucp> llama@tramp.cc.utexas.edu (sine nomine) writes:

>
>the problem with pushing everyone away and retreating into a quiet
>space where it's just me and words is that sometimes i need to come
>out and breathe and if i've pissed everyone who knows me off, i'll be
>lonely when i surface. why can't they just understand this
>instinctively? why do i have to feel so damned guilty for neglecting
>them?
>

They DO understand this instinctively, s.n. However, its just not that
fucking easy. It requires some effort on your part. You cant just
run away when you want, and then when you need some attention burst
out of your bubble and expect friends to jump forward to greet you.
Do you really expect that any friend, no matter how true would
expect nothing from you, no effort, no support, while giving you
as much as you need? Even a dog wont do that (but he'll come close).

-rob


Newsgroups: alt.angst
From: despair@netcom.com (Scott Hanson)
Subject: Re: My New Year's Eve
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 02:13:17 GMT

>pmarlowe@noncomf.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca (philip marlowe) writes:

[deleted. you remember don't you?]

My goodness.  It is rare to see such an honestly probing reply to these
sort of posts.  It is encouraging to see something besides cheerleading,
but I fear you are going to get flamed for this.  Whoops, I may be implicating
myself as well.

Unrelatedly, if there aren't too many banal new years postings in the near
future, I shall post my experiences.  Quite interesting, even to someone who
isn't myself.


-- 
Scott Hanson		This has been a recording.
despair@netcom.com
From: z3kpw@ttacs1.ttu.edu ("Wheeler, Kevin")
Newsgroups: alt.angst
Subject: free stuff to read
Date: 8 Jan 93 12:40:00 GMT
X-Received: by usenet.pa.dec.com; id AA16519; Fri, 8 Jan 93 04:40:21 -0800
X-Received: by inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com; id AA12969; Fri, 8 Jan 93 04:40:19 -0800
X-To: "alt.angst.usenet" <alt.angst.usenet>


  _   _
 ((___))
 [ x x ] cDc communications
  \   /  Global Domination Update - shortform
  (' ')  #10 - January 1, 1993
   (U)
 
New gNu NEW gnU new GnU nEW gNu neW gnu nEw releases for January, 1993:
 
 _________________________________/Text Files\_________________________________
 
201: "One Wrong Move" by The Deth Vegetable.  We start '93 off right with this
strong cDc debut from Deth Veggie.  An artist with a shotgun?  You KNOW it's
gonna be rad.
 
202: "Monster Jennifer, or Celibacy Can Kill You" by Omega.  Another '93 cDc
debut by Omega, sysop of Moody Loners With Handguns BBS and author of a tech
article published in the November, '92 issue of MONDO 2000.  Let's sing!
"Jennifer, hey, it's Jennifer... she's got a penis, hey wow, she's really
beautiful and kinda crazy... HEY!  IT'S JENNIFER!"
 
203: "The Briefing" by Reid Fleming.  Yet ANOTHER cDc debut, this one a
gripping tale of political intrigue and space aliens.  "Mr. President, you're
NOT on Candid Camera."
 
204: "Life in General" by Video Vindicator.  Mr. Fraud himself takes keyboard
in hand to deliver a heaping batch of opinions for you to ponder.  He disses
lame females!  He disses lame cars!  This file's got it all!
 
205: "That Which Strikes Terror Into the Hearts of Men" by Lady Carolin.  A
creepy old house, a dorky womanizer, and a mad grrrl with a chainsaw boogie
down!  Wooh!  It's the battle of the sexes!  ACTION!  ZOW!!
 
206: "The Power of Art" by THE NIGHTSTALKER.  It's the crazed man with feces on
his mind, mailing lumps of his bowel's best work to the President's lovely
daughter.  How touching!  Never let it be said that cDc lacks tender-hearted
affection!  We're all very fuzzy and warm.
 
207: "F23" by Obscure Images.  Ominous cyberpunk innuendo stuff with
mind-control and Catholic confessions.  You know it's REAL cyberpunk 'cause it
was a t-file FIRST.
 
208: "A Visit to the Slaughterhouse" by Transderm-Nitro.  Hey hey - let's go on
a pleasant little jaunt down to the slaughterhouse and kill us some cows! 
Yeehaw.  It's educational - Mr. Nitro breaks it on down for YOU.  Dead cows,
it's a subject EVERYONE's interested in.
 
209: "Helmet Interview: July 17, 1992" by G.A. Ellsworth.  Transcription of
G.A. interviewing Page Hamilton, singer and bandleader of Helmet.
 
210: "My Shit, and How to Strangle It" by Tequila Willy.  He's wacky and he's
got intestinal worms!  Read all about it!
 
         All files are available NOW from ftp.eff.org in pub/cud/cdc.
 
Newsgroups: alt.angst