HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: aus.general
Subject: University phone numbers and commonwealth/industry funded places
From: wpoolerac@brt.deakin.edu.au
Date: 12 Jan 93 11:07:26 EST
Followup-To: aus.followup
Distribution: aus
Organization: Deakin University, Melbourne

Hi Netters,

Could anyone tell me the general phone numbers of the following universities and
whether they know anyone involved with Joint Commonwealth/Industry Funded
Additional Places Scheme

Charles Sturt University
University of New England
The University of Wollongong
Ballarat University College
RMIT
Swinburne Institute of Technology Ltd
Swinburne University of Technology
Victoria University of Technology
Griffith University
James Cook University of North Queensland
Queensland University of Technology
University of Southern Queensland
Curtin University of Technology
Edith Cowan University
The Northern Territory University
Australian Catholic University

I hope you can help me

kindest regards

Wendy Pooler
Newsgroups: aus.general
From: ianst@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au (Ian Staples)
Subject: Re: Vegetarian Ethics?????????????????
Organization: Qld Dept Primary Industries
Distribution: aus
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 08:51:34 GMT

In article <7047@otc.otca.oz> brendan@otc.otca.oz (Brendan Jones) writes:
[Lotsa stuff gone]
>
>Also, the earth was reaching it's population limits in 1970, and people were
>questioning whether we'd be able to feed ourselves in 1990.
>
>Sorry, but people have been predicting the end of the world since it began.
>I'm yet to be convinced it's any more real now than at any time when people
>have said it in the past.  Convince me.
>
I think it depends on your perspective.  There is no doubt that the world
is feeding many more people now than may have been thought possible back
in the days of the "starving millions".  At that time (50s? 60s?) it was
thought that Pakistan "could be saved" by the application of modern
farming technology, but India was then regarded as a hopeless case.

As things have turned out, both countries have done remarkably well.  The
question is, for how long can the world _continue_ to make the gains
necessary to keep pace with population?  And for how long can those gains
be maintained, given the enormous resources of fossil energy we must pour
into the manufacture and operation of the equipment and materials needed
to sustain high agricultural production?

Maybe for a generation?  Two generations?  Five?  Fifty?  Certainly not
forever, or even close to it.

As for the end of the world - how long are you prepared to wait?
If the earth is somewhere between 4.5 and 10 billion years old, then
predictions of doom made "now" are essentially concurrent with those
made "in the past", considering that they have all been made in the
past couple of million years :)

-- 
Ian Staples                       | Internet : ianst@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au
c/- P.O. Box 1054,                | Fax      : +61 (0)70 923 593
MAREEBA  Queensland  4880         | Voice    : +61 (0)70 921 555
Australia.                        | Home     : +61 (0)70 924 847
Newsgroups: aus.general
From: iana@tplrd.tpl.oz.au (Ian Adamson)
Subject: Re: Vegetarian Ethics?????????????????
Keywords: vegetarians, polpot
Organization: Telectronics Pacing Systems
Distribution: aus
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 15:32:33 GMT

Plenty of stuff deleted for bevity ...

>fraser@munta.cs.mu.OZ.AU (Fraser Wilson) writes:
>
>>>Trip a vegetarian today and eat him/her.
>
>>Why bother being politically correct with such a stupid statement?
>
>Ah yes, Politically Correct. Used to be all the rage under the Red,

stuff deleted

>and a wrecking job well-done. Seeds of little Ceaucescus and Pol Pots.

Sounds a little toung in cheek but worth a bite. If you've been reading
the recent posts most of the vegies ;-) are not proponants of "stuff
it down your throat", rather "this works for me".

ipse dixit - varying degrees of vegetarianism are more healthful than
the typical western diet, largely due to the lack of fiber in the 
diet than too much meat.

An interesting artical in the Wall Street Journal recently reported on
the health and diet of Glaswegians (Scotland). They eat almost no fresh
produce (but do eat loads of meat, fat and sugar) and have 800% the incidence
of heart disease of other comparable societies. Also some diseases 
not seen in the west for over 100 years such as rickets and scurvey.

Moderation in everything ... especially moderation.

Newsgroups: aus.general
From: fraser@munta.cs.mu.OZ.AU (Fraser Wilson)
Subject: Re: Herbivorously Challenged? I think not!
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Distribution: aus
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 14:31:35 GMT

lawley@kurango.cit.gu.edu.au (michael lawley) writes:

>11. It would rule out Arnotts biscuits.

Apprently, Arnotts have recently come through for us.  Yippie!

Fraser.
Newsgroups: aus.general
From: lawley@kurango.cit.gu.edu.au (michael lawley)
Subject: Re: Herbivorously Challenged? I think not!
Organization: Griffith University.
Distribution: aus
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 04:09:54 GMT

fraser@munta.cs.mu.OZ.AU (Fraser Wilson) writes:

>TOP SEVEN REASONS NOT TO BE A VEGETARIAN

>1. What about the poor plants?
>2. The cow has a really good life until the end.
>3. The cow wouldn't have existed at all if we didn't eat it.
>4. God put animals on the earth for us to use.
>5. We're more important than animals anyway.
>6. Where do you get your protein from?
>7. (just recently) vegetarians have to pop vitamin pills all the time.

8. Pale and sickly just doesn't go with my wardrobe.
9. Nothing matches an aged fillet steak.
10. A vegetarian wouldn't even eat "fallen" meat.
11. It would rule out Arnotts biscuits.

mike

-- 
    michael lawley (lawley@cit.gu.EDU.AU).        The Unicycling Postgrad
Newsgroups: aus.general
From: gifford@krang.vis.citri.edu.au (Jonathan Gifford)
Subject: Re: Vegetarian Ethics?????????????????
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Distribution: aus
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 01:16:19 GMT

ianst@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au (Ian Staples) writes:
>As far as I'm concerned, people are free to eat whatever they damned
>well like, as long as they don't become cannibals.  (Somehow it just
>doesn't seem quite right to eat your own - but maybe that has more
>to do with concepts of religion and justice than biology?  Then again,
>see the argument re pork above.)

I'm particularly interested in *exactly* why you don't like
cannibalism. Is it an ethical reason? If not, does anything you do
related to eating have any ethical basis? Where do you draw the line
on what is and what is not an ethical issue?

I suppose I should come clean and say I'm a Vege, and for mostly
ethical reasons. I happen to think that humans should be attempting to
minimise their impact on this planet, and all its other inhabitants,
since we are (possibly the only species) capable of doing this. This
means that I extend much the same privileges to a person as I do to a
dog, or a cow, and since I'm no cannibal, I'm no carnivore, either.

hasta la tofu, baby,

jon

-- 
Jonathan Gifford        gifford@vis.citri.EDU.AU        gifford@cs.mu.OZ.AU
--- CITRI, 723 Swanston St, Carlton, VIC 3053, Australia  +61 3 2822475 ---
      He didn't say "thou shalt have dominion over a big wad of tofu"
Newsgroups: aus.general
From: pete@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (Peter Alexander Merel)
Subject: Re: The great vegie debate (Beans means .....
Organization: Sydney University Computing Service, Sydney, NSW, Australia
Distribution: aus
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 00:40:36 GMT

haines@eng2.eng.monash.edu.au (Andrew Haines, Civil, 1/113) writes:
>In article <1993Jan8.093315.8260@brt.deakin.edu.au> trathenac@brt.deakin.edu.au writes:
>>I'm not vegetarian myself but I do think that the vegies have it based
>>on the economic and environmental arguments presented.
>I'd agree that such arguments bring a good case for REDUCED meat 
>consumption. 

No. Nature relies on a system of checks and balances to maintain good order. If
a predator is removed from an ecosystem then its prey assume plague proportions.
If we were to all go veggie the consequent stampedes would level our cities 
and destroy western civilization. The east might be all right for a little
while - they have the great wall of china to save them - but herbivores are
stubborn critters not above butting their heads into giant stone edifices,
and eventually even the chinese would fall beneath those thundering hooves ...

-- 
Internet: pete@extro.su.oz.au             UUCP: {uunet,mcvax}!munnari!extro!pete
                       I am a big pond in a small fish.
From: guy@trofis.tfrc.csiro.au (Guy Carpenter)
Newsgroups: aus.general
Subject: Re: Herbivorously Challenged? I think not!
Date: 6 Jan 93 23:28:31 GMT
Distribution: aus
Organization: CSIRO Tropical Forest Research Centre

summer@mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU (Mark Summerfield) writes:

>house@helios.usq.EDU.AU (ron house) writes:

>>[BTW: please remember that the average vegetarian goes happily about his
>>business, bothering no-one, and yet gets demands to explain his
>>philosophies every time he orders a vegetarian meal.  At least that's my
>>experience.  I __NEVER__ comment on the subject __FIRST__ to __ANYONE__,
>>yet I seem to spend half my life explaining the stupidity or dishonesty
>>of all the silly arguments against vegetarianism that have been trotted
>>out lately in this forum.]

>I find it very hard to believe that this is true these days.  I'm _not_
>a vegetarian, and yet I never eat meat at lunchtime, and probably 50% of my
>evening meals would be acceptable to the majority of vegetarians.  I do not
>cook most of these meals myself -- I eat out a lot, I have three
>housemates, so I guess I might cook once a week at the most.  My experience
>is that if I want vegetarian food at home, at restaurants or takeaway, and
>even when invited to friends or family, all I have to do is say so
>(obviously suitably in advance in some cases!) No problems, no questions
>asked.  I can't help but wonder whether I find it easy largely because
>I don't feel I have anything to "defend" -- I'm just expressing a preference
>at any given meal, and people just accept it.

While I'm not strictly vegetarian either, I'd say my personal experience
is much closer to Ron's.  At every conference or party or public meal
some bugger notices I'm not tearing into a steak and so he/she comes
up and challenges me about it.  In fact my wife and I have a running joke
about "the top ten anti-vegetarian arguments", most of which have come
up in this thread.  A new entry into the top ten is citing the Patrick
White story about "Screaming Potatoes", in which Patrick White apparently
invokes the old standard "Plants Are Alive Too".

It really is tedious - my best guess is that (a) some ppl don't have anything
better to start a conversation with, and (b) seeing that someone has taken
the same information and come up with a different conclusion is challenging.
We now do our best to escape quickly from that sort of conversation, because
it generally ends up with the same sort of angst you see in this thread.

Guy.
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
CSIRO Tropical          P.O. Box 780             Work : (070) 91 1755
      Forest            Maunds Rd                Fax  : (070) 91 3245
      Research          Atherton Q 4883          Home : (070) 95 3309
Newsgroups: aus.general
From: ianst@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au (Ian Staples)
Subject: Re: Vegetarian Ethics?????????????????
Organization: Qld Dept Primary Industries
Distribution: aus
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 10:30:03 GMT

In article <1993Jan5.062452.29046@bby.com.au> gnb@baby.bby.com.au (Gregory N. Bond) writes:
>
>We export zillions of tons more food than we import, and we export
>zillions of tons of wool that is grown on potential crop land.  And
                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Not strictly true on an _area_ basis.  I don't know what proportion
of the Australian wool clip is produced on the semi-arid and arid
rangelands, but these lands form a *very* large proportion of the
Australian continent, and they are hardly suitable for crop production.
Even given the enormous resources required to irrigate but a small part
of them, much of the area would remain unproductive without the continuous
input of fertilisers - hardly sustainable production.  Furthermore,
irrigation schemes _per_se_ have tended to be rather less than sustainable
in similar climatic zones everywhere.

>there are HUGE tracts of land under (or not!) used because of poor
>economics that are capable of supporting food production.
>
>We could probably feed 10 times the current population (to Western
>standards) with very little effort.  On sustainable third-world
>standards, probably 1000 times.
>
I guess we are all allowed to exagerate a little - 17 billion ockers?
The mind boggles!

-- 
Ian Staples                       | Internet : ianst@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au
c/- P.O. Box 1054,                | Fax      : +61 (0)70 923 593
MAREEBA  Queensland  4880         | Voice    : +61 (0)70 921 555
Australia.                        | Home     : +61 (0)70 924 847
From: ina_pearce@actew.oz.au
Newsgroups: aus.general
Subject: Re: Vegetarian Ethics?????????????????
Date: 7 Jan 93 12:27:04 EST
Followup-To: aus.followup
Distribution: aus
Organization: ACT Electricity & Water


> amazing amount of garbage and dribble deleted...

one comment i found interesting was when humans actually started hunting?
well every cave-man movie I've seen they were always hunting meat for food. Not
once did i see them picking fruit or vegetables, so that just about proves it!
:-)

But seriously folks, from all the postings I've read the one thing I've noticed 
is that all the witty comments (with smilies usually included) were written by 
the unbiased and probable omnivores where all the reactionary and insulting 
comments were written by the vegetarians!

I can only conclude that their lack of humour stems from the lack of iron in
their diet resulting in insufficient oxygen reaching their brains :-)
(I know I shouldn't have worried about including the smilie since these vegoes
don't know what it means ;-)

As for vegoes thinking they are not extremists and mind their own business,
have you ever tried to eat a nice juicy steak in front of a vego or tried
bringing an innocent little sausage into a vegoes house???

anyway just my thoughts for today, think I'll go out to lunch now and gnore on
a pig's thigh :-Q :-)
Newsgroups: aus.general
From: fraser@munta.cs.mu.OZ.AU (Fraser Wilson)
Subject: Re: Vegetarian Ethics?????????????????
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Distribution: aus
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 01:08:12 GMT

dnk@cs.mu.OZ.AU (David Kinny) writes:
>So why are you carrying on in such a stupid fashion about statements
>you consider to be stupid, pointless, etc?  Got nothing better to do?

You read it, sunshine.


>>Vegetarianism is extremism?  I'm afraid that that is, how best to put it,
>>utter bullshit.

>Utter bullshit, huh? You write like a religious bigot whose personal
>creed has been profaned.  Restricting your diet to plant matter only,
>despite all the evidence that we are well-adapted to be omnivores, is
>clearly a form of extremism.  Restricting your diet to fruit is even
>more extreme.  But perhaps you use 'extremism' to mean something
>different to what I do.

Personally, I use extremism to indicate things which are extreme.
This has worked well in the past, and I shall probably continue to
do so.

Vegetarianism is not extreme.  If it were, it wouldn't be so easy, nor
so cheap, nor so socially acceptable (excluding the odd person who gets
offended when people have a happy and fulfilling lifestyle) (or even
just a lifestyle).

Perhaps my two line response above was a little extreme (hell, so I am
an extremist after all), but you seem to have conveniently forgotten to
add the rest of the article, filled with cogent argument, flowing prose,
and a strong sense of just what a nice guy I really am.  Or maybe it was
more bullshit.  Life's like that.

Have a nice day (and I really do mean it),

Fraser.
Newsgroups: aus.general
From: curmi@munta.cs.mu.OZ.AU (Jamie Paul CURMI)
Subject: Re: Herbivorously Challenged? I think not!
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Distribution: aus
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 03:44:17 GMT

fraser@munta.cs.mu.OZ.AU (Fraser Wilson) writes:

>TOP SEVEN REASONS NOT TO BE A VEGETARIAN

>1. What about the poor plants?
>2. The cow has a really good life until the end.
>3. The cow wouldn't have existed at all if we didn't eat it.
>4. God put animals on the earth for us to use.
>5. We're more important than animals anyway.
>6. Where do you get your protein from?
>7. (just recently) vegetarians have to pop vitamin pills all the time.

>This is just off the top of my head.  Feel free to add.

>Fraser.

Hey Fraser,
this is one my dad told me when I refused to eat meat any more
(few years back now)

But if we didn't eat cows, there would be too many of them and they would
eat all our vegetables.

;-)

Jamie

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------            Jamie P. Curmi  (curmi@cs.mu.oz.au, curmi@maths.mu.oz.au)                      Department of Computer Science,   Department of Mathematics
         The University of Melbourne, Parkville, Victoria, Australia            ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    *** Mutate NOW - avoid the rush! ***
Xref: sparky aus.general:2594 aus.aarnet:1346 alt.internet.access.wanted:1214
From: andrew@teslab.lab.oz.au (Andrew Phillips)
Newsgroups: aus.general
Subject: Re: Vegetarian Ethics?????????????????
Date: 4 Jan 93 02:25:34 GMT
Organization: Technology Services, Chief Secretary's Dept, Sydney

wadley@mullauna.cs.mu.OZ.AU (Fruit Loop) writes:
: Like other closely-related primates, humans are natural-born fruit-eaters.

This is like saying that "like other closely-related primates, humans
are natural-born tree-climbers".  Just as in eating only fruit,
returning to the trees would solve some problems, such as lower back
pain, but there would also be some disadvantages.
-- 
Andrew Phillips (andrew@teslab.lab.oz.au) Phone +61 (Aust) 2 (Sydney) 287 6551
Newsgroups: aus.general
From: dave@philips.oz.au (David Torr)
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 93 23:29:45 GMT
Organization: Philips Public Telecommunications Systems, Melbourne, Australia
Subject: Re: Vegetarian Ethics?????????????????
Distribution: aus

ianst@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au (Ian Staples) writes:

>In article <9300319.8235@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU> fraser@munta.cs.mu.OZ.AU (Fraser Wilson) writes:

>[Stuff deleted]

>It's funny how people don't consider the poor bloody plants - they're
>alive too you know, until you boil them or, worse, eat them alive ;-)

>I'm sure they don't consider themselves to be producing "food", however
>efficiently they may do it.  They are producing little plants.  A vegetarian's
>bowl of rice contains 100s of dead plants; my t-bone steak only required
>one life to be sacrificed, and many other folk fed from it too!

And how many plants were killed so that your t-bone could be produced -
it is _much_ more efficient for humans to eat plants than for animals to
eat the plants and then for us to eat the plants!

Unfortunatley I like meat too much to put this into practise all of the time!

>Humans are simply part of the food chain.  If we are to live, other life
>forms must die.

>-- 
>Ian Staples                       | Internet : ianst@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au
>c/- P.O. Box 1054,                | Fax      : +61 (0)70 923 593
>MAREEBA  Queensland  4880         | Voice    : +61 (0)70 921 555
>Australia.                        | Home     : +61 (0)70 924 847
-- 
Dave Torr                                   dave@philips.oz.au
Software Development Manager                Tel +61 3 881 3587
Philips Public Telecommunications Systems   Fax +61 3 883 3577
Views expressed are personal and do not necessarily reflect Philips' policy.
Newsgroups: aus.general
From: john@citr.uq.oz.au (John Gottschalk)
Subject: Re: Australian Products ?
Organization: Prentice Centre, University of Queensland
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 07:43:24 GMT

doucas@cerberus.bhpese.oz.au (Chris Doucas) writes:

>For those galupping Gourmets...
>how about Vegemite? (yecch!)

Vegemite is made by a US company.


			-- regards, John Gottschalk

===================================================================== 
     John Gottschalk (john@citr.uq.oz.au) 
     Project Manager,
     Centre for Information Technology Research,
     The University of Queensland, 4072, 
     Brisbane, Queensland, Australia,
     +61 7 365 4321 (phone), +61 7 365 4399 (fax)
===================================================================== 
Newsgroups: aus.general
From: steve@fulcrum.oz.au (Steve Taylor)
Subject: Re: Vegetarian Ethics?????????????????
Organization: The Fulcrum Consulting Group
Distribution: aus
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 00:42:14 GMT

brendan@otc.otca.oz (Brendan Jones) writes:

>in article <1993Jan5.015759.19549@trofis.tfrc.csiro.au>, guy@trofis.tfrc.csiro.au (Guy Carpenter) says:
>> I personally draw the line like this: I dont eat those things which
>> I would not be perpared to personally go out and knock on the head,
>> chop up and gobble down.
> 
>So I take it you don't use things you couldn't build yourself either, like
>trains, ball point pens, and computers?  What a ridiculous metric.

Bad, bad analogy there Brendan. He's using the "would I be prepared to
do it myself" test to resolve problems of morality. There are no major
moral problems involved in using a ballpoint pen (well, not for me anyway)
so there's no need for such a test.


						
						Steve
From: bigk@cs.uq.oz.au (Kathy Williamson)
Newsgroups: aus.general
Subject: Rules in Database Systems
Date: 7 Jan 93 05:38:31 GMT
Reply-To: bigk@cs.uq.oz.au


CALL FOR PAPERS

1st International Workshop on
Rules in Database Systems

Edinburgh, Scotland, 30 August - 1 September 1993



AIM OF THE WORKSHOP
Rules have been a major focus of research interest in database systems for 
more than a decade, the initial focus on deductive rules and integrity 
constraints being augmented by recent research into active rules.  The aim of 
this workshop is to bring together researchers working on both theoretical and 
practical aspects of rules in database systems, to examine the current state 
of the art, to explore relationships between different categories of rule 
system, and to identify complementary areas for further development.

SCOPE OF THE WORKSHOP
Papers are sought on topics including, but not restricted to:
~      Active rules - theoretical foundations, rule analysis, execution 
       models, optimisation, realtime behaviour, production rules, tools, 
       interfaces, application.
~      Deductive rules/integrity constraints - theoretical issues, 
       implementation experience, optimisation, incomplete information, 
       applications.
~      Integration of active + deductive rules.

Submissions can either be full papers (around 5000 words) or short papers 
(around 2000 words).  Authors should send 4 copies of papers to:  Dr Norman 
Paton, Department of Computing and Electrical Engineering, Heriot-Watt 
University, Riccarton, Edinburgh EH14 4AS (email norm@cee.how.ac.uk;  
tel +44 31 451 3428).  Springer-Verlag have provisionally agreed to publish 
the proceedings in their "Workshops in Computing" series.

PROGRAMME COMMITTEE
J.B. Bocca (Birmingham, UK)
A. Buchmann (Darmstadt, Germany)
O. Diaz (Pais Vasco, Spain)
K.J. Jeffery (RAL, UK)
T. Sellis (Nat Tech Uni Athens, Greece)
M. Bouzeghoub (M. Curie, France)
G. von Bueltzingsloewen (Karlsruhe, Germany)
K.R. Dittrich (Zuerich, Switzerland)
R. Manthey (Bonn, Germany)
M.H. Williams (Heriot-Watt, UK)
B. Bry (ECRC, Germany)
S. Chakravarthy (Florida, USA)
P.M.D. Gray (Aberdeen, UK)
N.W. Paton (Heriot-Watt, UK)
K.F. Wong (ECRC, Germany)

IMPORTANT DATES
Submission Deadline:               31 March 1993
Notification of Acceptance:        15 June 1993
Workshop Versions Due:             31 July 1993
Camera Ready Copy:                 31 October 1993
Newsgroups: aus.general