HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Othman Ahmad)
Subject: Re: US vs British university degree
Organization: Nanyang Technological University - Singapore
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 13:56:04 GMT

Mohd Hanafiah Abdullah (napi@jaring.ism.my) wrote:
:    A friend of mine recently obtained a PhD in Computer Science from an
:    Australian university, and he was a top student at MCKK.  He told me how he
:    wished he had gone to the US after MCE because he found out later that the
:    USA was where all the action was, especially in R&D.

I wonder why Malaysian government did not send him to USA, but be careful in
the choice of Universities.

:    
:    Whereas the US system place appropriate weights on homework, exams, quizzes,
:    assignments, and class participation throughout a course.  This is a

Where they can copy from each other.

:    progressive and highly effective system of learning, and a student cannot
:    afford to put of his/her studies until the last minute.  BTW, what is the
:    percentage of American Nobel Prize laureates as compared to British during
:    the last 50 years?

Anyone got a figure?  I know Salam and Hawking from UK.
Beware though that US has 200million version 50million people,
and where they were formerly educated such as Fermi, Einstein, etc.

: 
:    Lately, in Malaysia there has been discussions about the mediocrity of
:    graduates from local universities.  To me, it is largely due to incompetent
:    British trained lecturers who make up 70 percent of the teaching force at
:    all local universities.

It wasn't bad when there were none of those 30%.
The complaint was actually due to the lack of creativity. They are not brave
to argue their cases, just look for instructions. Very hard to have initiative.
Only know what they were taught.
	Sound familiar. Of course the comments were made by UK educated 
professors, the old timers.
	VERY few research work done in Universities judged by the number of
papers produced. Surprisingly I heard UPM actually managed to have super
conductivity experiments.	
: 
: So to the British trained, face the facts, there is not much to be proud of
: about British education.  The fact is that the American system is SUPERIOR
You are so certain of your argument that there is no point to argue with you.
However please read previous posts by students from both places for more
facts.

--
Othman bin Ahmad, School of EEE,
Nanyang Technological University, Singapore 2263.
Internet Email: eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg
Bitnet Email: eoahmad@ntuvax.bitnet
From: ustai@memstvx1.memst.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: Ranking of UK Universities
Date: 14 Oct 92 21:12:25 -0600
Organization: Memphis State University

In article <1992Oct14.210253.1@vaxa.strath.ac.uk>, ciar04@vaxa.strath.ac.uk writes:
[munch]
> etc etc.  The top universities are
> 
>      1)  Cambridge
>      2)  Oxford
>      3)  Imperial College (I think)
>      4)  Edinburgh
>     
> Perhaps some of you (esp. those in the UK) have some comments.

	My friend says that Glasglow is one of the better places for Medicine. 
Yes, he's studying there, why??? :) :)  Ciao.

-Tai
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Othman Ahmad)
Subject: Re: Mat Setia and satellite parabolic antenna and the 5% dude
Organization: Nanyang Technological University - Singapore
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 13:36:18 GMT

elelko@nuscc.nus.sg (Free Man) writes:
: 
:    i recall that the satelite facility in my former uni in kl, has the
: capability of tapping signals from the palapa satelite. so, should that
I'm not sure about that satellite link but all radio broadcasting stations
in universities in Malaysia will be banned. They are only allowed to use 
RTM stations.

IF Rahmat heard about that satellite receiver, he will insist on it being
banned, so better keep quiet about it.

I'm more interested in the reasons behind his sudden concern. Anyone can
elaborate further. I have suspicion that it was due to the presense of
illegal radio stations in Kelantan. Anyone from Kelantan would like to
comment?

I also heard that wireless microphones will be banned, but I'm not sure.
Please note that these politicians' words are not the law yet. They only
become law when a circular is sent to all relevant government agencies, and
it is not easy, especially in Malaysia. I believe a government policy change
can be done very quickly in Singapore?
	Imagine the "chewing gum" implemented in just 3 months after the MRT
complained about dirty toilet seats.

The ban on wireless mic may be enforced by customs officers. If I heard 
correctly, all existing wireless mic may be banned as well, so we may no 
longer see our singers and announcers without a cordless mic.
	The above is based on what I thought I heard Rahmat said. Whether
he has authority or not is  a different story.
: facility be screened too ??? hmm ... noticed then that tv programming of
: m'sia's neighbours were pretty liberal !
: 
: 
: =========================================================================
: 
: Looi Kwok Onn
: EE Dept,                              "Jim, I have no ego to satisfy",
: National University of Singapore.      Spock.
: elelko@nuscc.nus.sg
: 
: =========================================================================

--
Othman bin Ahmad, School of EEE,
Nanyang Technological University, Singapore 2263.
Internet Email: eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg
Bitnet Email: eoahmad@ntuvax.bitnet

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: elelko@nuscc.nus.sg (Free Man)
Subject: Re: A Puzzle : ): )
Organization: National University of Singapore
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 04:42:36 GMT

kahchan@banana.iss.nus.sg (low kah chan) writes:

: Unfortunately we will not get to see the ad again because it was later
: pulled out due to protests that the ad might actually encouragement
: teenagers to pair up and get themselves into trouble (aka teenager
: pregnancies) at an age when they don't really know what they are getting
: into.  I wish I could see the ad again.  It was rather funny and cute,
: if not for the dire sociological consequences it might have as a side
: effect. :-)

kah chan,

  you'll be able to 'enjoy' that ad again because the Ministry of Health
(the creator !) withdraw the ad for re-edit. seems that the script has
indeed stepped on many toes, and will be re-released after the
'sanitation' exercise. so, have fun when version 1.1 comes out ..

  btw, this whole idea of starting-a-family-early business has kind of
gotten out of proportion. my, look at all the excuses and 'reasons'
thrown at us just to drive that point home ! even to the extent of
having that innocent little girl saying something like ' .. how can
someone live to be that old ? '. she was referring to the boy's mum at
being, what, 31 ?

  i can't wait for the ver 1.1 ...

kolooi
elelko@nuscc.nus.sg
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Othman Ahmad)
Subject: Re: Ranking of UK Universities
Organization: Nanyang Technological University - Singapore
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 07:49:44 GMT

ciar04@vaxa.strath.ac.uk wrote:
: While on the thread of US vs UK universities, let me bring into
: discussion the ranking of UK universities.
: 
: In The Times Good University Guide (12 Oct 92 and 13 Oct 92), a total of
: more than 90 universities (and polytechnics, including those that has
: just converted/are converting to university status) were ranked on various
: criteria, including % of PhD holders among staff, staff with professional
: qualification, research grants/facilities, library facilities, accomodation
: etc etc.  The top universities are
: 
:      1)  Cambridge

Which college?
:      2)  Oxford
:      3)  Imperial College (I think)

Why not the entire University of London?

:      4)  Edinburgh

--
Othman bin Ahmad, School of EEE,
Nanyang Technological University, Singapore 2263.
Internet Email: eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg
Bitnet Email: eoahmad@ntuvax.bitnet
From: zcakilh@ucl.ac.uk (Miss Chee Mei Yeoh)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Article by Sumiko Tan of The Straits Times
Summary: Are Singaporeans capable of 'thoughtcrime'?
Date: 17 Oct 92 03:07:15 GMT
Distribution: soc.culture.asean
Organization: Bloomsbury Computing Consortium, London

Laurence Godfrey writes :
 
> I think [the claim that a large number of Singaporeans feel that their country> is a model for the world and that Singapore has little to learn from others]
> is quite consistent with most of the postings from Singaporeans in response
> to criticisms in this newsgroup.
 
If this claim was indeed true, then I, too, would be worried. I draw some small
comfort from the fact that the original article which prompted this thread was
written in a Singapore newspaper; speaking for myself, I am able to (at least)
appreciate such of the criticism on this newsgroup as is powerful. One
particular piece comes to mind. Numero Uno writes :
 
     Many - millions - have sacrificed their [lives] so that others can
     permit themselves to remain slaves in their own way - according
     to their hearts' desire. Voluntary slavery is more repulsive than
     enforced slavery.

If I may say so, I found this pungent and chilling criticism compelling; if in
the end I have not resiled from the views I advanced before, it is not, I hope,
for want of thought. I am capable of thoughtcrime enough to understand
heretical arguments, or perhaps the true position is that I am not
crimethinking. :-)
From: godfrey@sscvx1.ssc.gov (LAURENCE GODFREY)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: RE : SINGAPORE LAWSE (sic)
Date: 8 Oct 92 17:34:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: sscvx1.8OCT199211341300
Organization: Superconducting Super Collider Laboratory
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1

In article <1992Oct8.155708.12778@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, mhmann@nyx.cs.du.edu (Me Mann)            writes...
> 
>Are you sure he only stated a fact? This God-Fried fellow is wanting attention.
>He is not only notorious here but in s.c.thai.  He seems to be at odd
>with people in Thailand and Singapore! So the best is ignore him.
> 
>-Mann

It's a little childish, isn't it, to make silly puns on my name.  Is that the
sort of level at which you argue politics in Singapore?  For all the mail
on the scthai group criticising my postings, I've had 3 times as much email
in support.  Also, I wouldn't compare the Thais and Singaporeans - I lived
for a year in Thailand and have visited 10 times, and there are very very few
similarities between the people, government etc. in those two countries,
except that neither are a democracy.  The God_fried fellow simply has a
point of view about both countries - I suppose wanting to state that point
could be described as seeking attention, but here we would describe it as
making one's viewpoint heard.  What do you think the network is for?
For praising your government?  For telling jokes?  I thought soc.culture
was to exchange views about cultures, is that okay with you only so long as they're
complimentary views.  I doubt you'd accuse me of seeking attention if I posted
a few articles saying how wonderful I thought Singapore was.

Anyway, if you had taken the trouble to read my mails on soc.culture.thai, whilst there are 
critcisims there are also quite a few saying how much i like the people
and the country.  There are no such articles from me about Singapore on this
group, so I don't really think there is any comparison

Laurence
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: iscksc@nuscc.nus.sg (Mr Khoo Siau Cheng)
Subject: Re: RE : SINGAPORE LAWSE (sic)
Organization: National University of Singapore
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 03:06:35 GMT

In article <1992Oct8.114448.13413@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu> (Adder) writes:
>
>One should never be loyal to a government simply because it IS a government.  
>Big deal!  There are a lot of governments.  Loyalty should arise from one's 
>RESPECT of the government in question.  One way one learns how to respect one's 
>government (and hence, develop loyalty to it) is to question.  Are they doing 
>the "right thing"?  If so, then hurrah!  They deserve loyalty, and will receive 
>it.  If not, think!  What is wrong, and what can I do to HELP it?
>
>Blind loyalty is STUPID.
>

Agree, and Singapore government has done a good job in bringing the
country to the current state that she naturally gets the general
respect and loyalty from the people (speaking for myself), even
though some of the laws look silly. I agree that those apparently
stupid laws should be (and have been) brought into question, but I
don't agree to totally discredit the government, and even to insult
the people, simply based on these laws.

-- Siau Cheng
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: u907736@postoffice.utas.edu.au (Edmund Chia)
Subject: Re: RE : SINGAPORE LAWSE (sic)
Organization: University of Tasmania, Australia
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 08:46:51 GMT

In article <8OCT199211341300@sscvx1.ssc.gov>, godfrey@sscvx1.ssc.gov (LAURENCE GODFREY) writes:

stuff deleted

> Anyway, if you had taken the trouble to read my mails on soc.culture.thai, whilst there are 
> critcisims there are also quite a few saying how much i like the people
> and the country.  There are no such articles from me about Singapore on this
> group, so I don't really think there is any comparison
> 
> Laurence

I believe that Dr Godfrey has made his dislike or Singapore and Singaporeans
very clear. He has also made the comment that Singapore was an 'undemocratic
country' with 'silly laws' and that he would never want to visit it again.
I concede his right to hold such an opinion but as a Singaporean who was
rather offended that he regarded my country as 'undemocratic' and not
worth visiting, as well as concerned for the good name and image of my
country, I would ask Dr Godfrey to do us the courtesy of sharing the reasons
for his opinions - on this newsgroup so that we could discuss why at least
one non-Singaporean(and probably many more) has cause for such an unfavourable 
impression of us. 

Edmund
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: clipper@grace.csd.uwo.ca (Khun Yee Fung)
Subject: Re: SINGAPORE LAWSE
Organization: Department of Computer Science, The University of Western
	Ontario, London, Ontario, Canada
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 17:10:39 GMT

>>>>> On 9 Oct 92 08:52:46 GMT, ag@gserv1.dl.ac.uk (Old Wolf) said:

[stuff deleted]

oldwolf> Very neat reply. Excellent summary. Covers the facts well.

What reply? That Singapore cannot have toilet attendants otherwise it
is toilet patrols? That Britain can have it because you can criticise
your government? I see no reply.

Summary? What summary? That he can change the direction of the
discussion just because he likes it? In case you do care, which I
doubt, I stated the fact because I found it strange to have a glass
window and office inside the toilet. I did not care a lot about the
discussions about the toilet law. But since someone mentioned that he
saw a toilet attendant in a Singaporean toilet, I just wanted to say
that it was no big deal (go read the original message). I saw it
somewhere else (and I have never seen toilet attendants in Canada so I
had to use the London example). So the presence of toilet attendants
is not significant. [It is like saying I saw a policeman in China and
therefore I say China is a police state. China is but the existence of
policemen has nothing to do with it (in case you don't see my logic:
because many democratic countries have a lot of them too, even brutal
ones)].

Facts? What facts? I see no facts covered by him. Now I can see using
the London example is not a bad move at all. I was there for just a
little time and can I then flaunt my experience there? No. He was in
Singapore for how long? One year? How much does he know about
Singapore? He can certainly talk about Singapore. Everybody can. But
to firmly base one's opinion on a short visit is not wise.

Khun Yee

P.S. Here is my position. The `silly laws' have nothing to do with
whether Singapore is democratic or not. If you think Singapore is
undemocratic, you have to do better and actually discuss the pertinent
issues.  Having toilet attendants is no big deal. It does not prove
anything.  Condescending remarks is not appreciated. Flaunting one's
experience is silly.  Assuming everybody has the same sense of humour
as you is insensitive.
--
Khun Yee Fung    clipper@csd.uwo.ca
Department of Computer Science
Middlesex College
University of Western Ontario
London, Ontario
Canada N6A 5B7
Tel: (519) 661-6889
Fax: (519) 661-3515
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 13:34:31 EDT
From: Kevin Ong *DarkLord* <KLO103@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: Malaysia Cup [12 Oct]

Great to see some Malaysia Cup news....but sad to see Perak doing so poorly.
Does anyone out there know the coaching staff of the Perak team? I would really
appreciate the information. Thanks.

Kevin L. Ong      *  Disclaimer: The things mentioned in my articles usually  *
Penn State Univ.  *              are my points of view. I like to give my 2:. *
Tel:(814)862-9044 *************************************************************
Bitnet: KLO103 at PSUVM * Internet: KLO103@psuvm.psu.edu * All are welcomed!  *
******* kevo@orville.psu.edu      or         kevo@satie.psu.edu  **************
From: zcakilh@ucl.ac.uk (Miss Chee Mei Yeoh)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Is freedom a 'Western' value?
Date: 12 Oct 92 01:59:07 GMT
Organization: Bloomsbury Computing Consortium, London

scksc@nuscc.nus.sg (Mr Khoo Siau Cheng) writes :
 
> [In the West, as society developed, new political ideas] simply took
> over from [old ones]. This proves that 'fundamental human rights'
> cannot be transplanted from one culture to another.
>
> instead of giving the people every thinkable rights and then trying to
> restrain them, Singapore is doing it the other way. This approach is
> is more conforming to the existing culture, and therefore has less
> effect to the social order (hence, we don't need a technology
> revolution to achieve that). And by the way, this approach adheres to
> the golden mean of the Confucian school -- "zhong yong zhi dao" (ie.,
> by not taking extreme means).
 
I entirely agree with what you say; that is what I mean when I say that
much of what the Singapore government thinks is the correct approach to
political development is 'rationally defensible'. But the government has
sometimes advanced the argument that there are deep-seated differences
between 'Asian' and 'Western' cultures as regards freedom. Freedom is not
a 'Western' value; I do not think that we should transplant wholesale
the freedoms that exist in 'Western' societies to Singapore, because those
freedoms have evolved over centuries and we have simply not gone through
such a historical process [yet]; I do not advocate extremism. But the
argument that we value freedom less because we are 'Asians' is just plain
wrong.
 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: u907736@postoffice.utas.edu.au (Edmund Chia)
Subject: Re: Muslims converting to other religions in England!
Organization: University of Tasmania, Australia
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 07:00:42 GMT

In article <70456@hydra.gatech.EDU>, gt6737b@prism.gatech.EDU (E.A. JAAFAR) writes:

stuff deleted

> FYI, under the M'sian constitution, there is a strong tie between malays
> and islam.  Contrary to what a m'sian guy in s'pore 'thinks', under 
> article 160A (if I'm not mistaken) of the m'sian constitution, one can
> find that a malay must be a moslem in order to claim his/her rights.  This
> also was the basis of my last posting on this issue.                     
> (whether or not this is fair is not within the scope of this article and
> I refuse to be dragged into such area of discussion.)

If I remember the relevant section in the constitution correctly, being muslim
is not in itself enough to attain 'bumi' rights or to be recognised as 'Malay'
One would also have to be Malaysian, adhere to Malay customs, speak Malay and
practise the Malay culture. Therefore, theoretically(and in practice), even
if one was born of Chinese or Indian parents, one could still become 'Malay'
on fulfiling these 'requirements' and claim the special privileges under
sec 153, et al. An example would be adopted children from other races in
Malay families.

Edmund
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: ytay@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu (AUS:Yian,Tay)
Subject: Re: RE : SINGAPORE LAWS (sic)
Originator: news@midway.ecn.uoknor.edu
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 20:55:00 GMT
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Oklahoma - University Computing Services

In article <1992Oct8.012633.7009@nuscc.nus.sg>, isckbk@nuscc.nus.sg (Kiong Beng Kee) writes...
>vickeong@student.business.uwo.ca (Victor Jiun-Wen Keong) writes:
> 
>: Osbert, and my dear colleagues on s.c.a., this man here just 
>: wants attention.
> 
>I agree that Singaporeans do not need noble knights to defend them from
>their government.  It is ironical that foreigners need to tell us we
>are having a bad time.


Yes, I agree.  Do we behave or talk like someone who is having a real
miserable life in Singapore?  Many of my American friends could not understand 
or believe that I am very happy back home with all those laws or restrictions.


My father loves travelling, but whenever he came back, he always felt 
real glad that his home is Singapore.


yi-an...

> 
>: What we have here is something great.
>: [deleted]
>: In a recent survey done by a Chicago consulting firm, 
>: Singapore was voted by Fortune 500 executives as the BEST city 
>: in the world to set up their foreign headquarters. Need I say 
>: more?  
> 
>But, taken to the extreme, such pride is also unhealthy, and would very
>well generate a false sense of superiority, as well as emnity from
>Godfrey characters.
>-- 
>Kiong Beng Kee
>Dept of Information Systems and Computer Science
>National University of Singapore
>Lower Kent Ridge Road, SINGAPORE 0511
From: msc9330@geovax.ed.ac.uk
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: kuching anyone
Date: 10 Oct 92 21:28:41 GMT
Organization: University of Edinburgh, Geography Department.

If there is anyone from Kuching, Sarawas, Malaysia then pleas
>contact me by mail.
From: eng20009@nusunix1.nus.sg (TAN GIM WEE)
Subject: Re: RE : SINGAPORE LAWSE (sic)
Organization: National University of Singapore
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 11:12:06 GMT

Isn't it just as silly to ask if there were any laws governing the
wearing of underwear? Look who is talking about being silly man! What is
more silly is to send email to people asking ludicrous questions.

--
---------------------------------------------------------
Tan Gim Wee
EE Dept, NUS
internet: eng20009@nusunix1.nus.sg
bitnet: eng20009@nusvm.bitnet
"Born to inspire, Destined to perform."
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: ystan@fawlty10.eng.monash.edu.au (Mr YS Tan)
Subject: Re: Muslims converting to other religions in England!
Organization: Monash University, Melb., Australia.
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 00:10:57 GMT

mlt@gdwb.oz.au (Mee Teng) writes:

>sci240s@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au (Wey Jing HO) writes:

>>Are you correct here? If you are, and if I read it correctly, you mean to say
>>that muslim is not people who believe in certain (namely, Islam) religion?

>In Malaysia, the moment a Malay is born, like it or not, he
>or she is 'stamped' with Islam, if the person wants to be called
>Malay & retain Bumiputra status. So Malay, like En. Othman pointed
>out is not exactly a race, because a Malay who denounces Islam is 
>not a Malay anymore. Confusing ? Malay is one of the very few
>peoples where a religion is born with them. In other words there
>is no freedom of choice of religion for 'Malay'.

"Originally", 
		Malay 	!=	Muslim ;
		     (not equal)
Islam only comes to the "Malays" in ~ the 15th century, when Malacca was the
busiest trading place ... So why  do they now want to have

		Malay	=	Muslim  ?

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: chai@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Ian Chai)
Subject: Re: Muslims converting to other religions in England!
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 23:03:32 GMT

bador@bnr.ca (Yasmin Bador) writes:
>converts of other races being accorded the status and rights of Bumiputras.

Really?! I thought Indian Muslims were not considered Bumiputeras?
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean