From: ALI00BAW@UNCCVM.UNCC.EDU
Newsgroups: alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.bush,alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: Lifestyle Choices and Secular Reasoning
Date: 4 Jan 93 16:18:22 GMT
Organization: UNC Charlotte

Benjamin Franklin, George Washington, and many others of the Founding
Fathers (not Jefferson, but that is another story) were FREEMASONS;
while Freemasonry does not require procpective members to be professors
of any particular religion, it DOES require belief in God.
 
Washington was a regular communicant in the Anglican (later Episcopal)
Church.  At least two delegates to the Continental Congress and/or the
Constitutional Convention were clergymen; I can think of one who later
became a Bishop.
In article <1993Jan4.123444.25149@netcom.com>
harp@netcom.com (Gregory O. Harp) writes:
 
>
>kellmeye@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (kellmeyer steven l) writes:
>
>>To be specific, the "country founded upon a belief in God" is the
>>United States of America.
>
><bzzt> Sorry, but thanks for playing. [see below]
>
>>"...the country founded upon atheism and a belief in man" is, ahem, was
>>the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.
>
>This is also historically incorrect.  The "-ism" WRT the USSR is
>attributable to Karl Marx.
>
>>Indeed.  I've read Tom and Ben and George, et. al.
>
>Apparently you've not paid enough attention.  Read Andrew Jackson
>while you're at it.
>
>>My statement stands.
>>I've looked at the Bill of Rights.  If Tom, George, Ben, or anyone else
>>had wanted to remove the religious foundations from the country, they
>>had only to delete the amendment concerning "respect to religion".
>
>The First Amendment's guarantee of freedom of religion doesn't imply
>in the least a Christian foundation for our country.  In fact, it
>specifically denies the possibility of the country having a single
>religious influence.
>
>>Furthermore, it seems that these boys believed man was "endowed with
>>certain inalienable rights".  Now they tended to be somewhat better
>>schooled in English than you, and undoubtedly understood that one
>>cannot be "endowed" unless Someone is doing the endowing.
>
>That's a stretch of logic to its extremes.  You're giving Thomas
>Jefferson more credit than he deserves.  His own religious beliefs
>were in no way representative of the rest.  Andrew Jackson, Benjamin
>Franklin, and George Washington are on record as being atheists.
>
>>Finally,
>>the numerous references to a Supreme Being that can be found in the public
>>and private papers of all of these gentlemen makes it quite clear that
>>this belief was the foundation of their conception of this country.
>
>Back it up or take it back.  I think you'll find very little religious
>influence in the lives of most of those who wrote the Constitution.
>--
>-----------------Greg-Harp----------------harp@netcom.com------------------
>  "I think I've reached that point / Where every word that you write /
>  Of every blood dark sea / And every soul black night / And every dream
>  you dream me in / And every perfect free from sin / And burning eyes /
>  And hearts on fire / Are just the same old song" -- The Cure
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