From: bobs@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Bob Sutton)
Subject: Re: Symphony Nos. 7 & 12 (was:Re: 10th symphony) 
Organization: /etc/organization
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 09:02:53 GMT

In article <1992Nov12.215745.16278@bnlux1.bnl.gov> schroede@bnlux1.bnl.gov (gary l. schroeder) writes:

>I'd have to say that the first movement of the 11th still gets my vote
>for being one of the best pieces of eerie mood music that I've ever
>heard.  In fact, I remember that my first exposure to DS was when Carl
>Sagan used that piece for a "flying through space" sequence in "Cosmos".
>Being 13 at the time, I didn't know who it was, but I knew that I really
>liked it.

Same here.  I was a *bit* older, like 18, but it had the same effect on me.
I found out what it was when I bought the Cosmos soundtrack album.   Then
I was fortunate to find the same recording they used, the old Stokowski one.

>>Am I the only one here that likes the 7th and 12th ?  Come on, where are
>>the all the Bruckner and Mahler cross-overs ??????

The 7th is *ok*.  I find it to be good listening music.  I have two copies
of it myself.  But let's get serious:  it's not that terrific.  I don't
think it's realy that inspired.  In fact I think a lot of its reputation
is a hold-over from the superhype from 1942 when the piece was played in
the US over 50 times.  It's not that good of a piece.  I do like the
third movement though and I find the fourth movement very theatrical and
effective except for the finale.  Most conductor drag it *way* too much.
It should be grand and sort of fanfare like, but the tempo is too
much at a brotosaurus pace.  A fast elephant pace is so much better.

>Well, I like the first movement of the 7th, even though it's an obvious
>take-off on the Bolero motif.  The section before the crescendo is quite
>exhileratingly (sp) bombastic.  The rest of it, though, is rather slow.

Yeah, it's ok.  The "take-off on the Bolero motif" is boring though.

>
>The 12th, on the other hand, is mostly symphonic action throughout
>(except for the slow 2nd movement).  The 1st movement is extremely
>rousing.  It's be hard not to get stirred up by all that trumpet blaring
>and militaristic drum tapping.  Almost makes one wannna be a member of
>the Proleteriate!

The 12th is shit.  I did like it when I first heard it but that's only
it was one of the first symphonies of his I'd heard.  Now that I've
heard them all I can say with a straight face that it is among the
worst schlock he's ever written.  I think the symphony was the result
of a government commission.  I dislike the 14th but it's better than
the 12th from a musical standpoint even though the 14th makes me
want to vomit.  But I agree with you:  the first movement is quite rousing.

>  
>As for Mahler and Bruckner...don't have any of their stuff.  Couldn't
>say.

Contrary to popular opinion, Mahler doesn't depress me.  Bruckner put me
to sleep at the LA Philharmonic performance of it last year.  8th 
symphony.  The last movement woke me up though.

-- 
Bob Sutton                        Love, most bitterly and fiercely oppresses
bobs@gnu.ai.mit.edu		  those who fight it than those who offer
al876@cleveland.freenet.edu       their servitude.    -- Ovid (Amores)
rsutton@eis.calstate.edu
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