HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tony@microware.co.uk (Tony Mountifield)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: Do We Need a New newsgroup? (was Re: Those Nasty Fundamentalists)
Date: 14 Aug 92 13:38:51 GMT
Organization: Microware Systems (UK) Ltd., Winchester, UK.

In article <1992Aug13.174833.20461@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> rlt@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (r l taylor) writes:
> 
> If we were to propose a new group, how about soc.culture.christian?
> That would seem to encompass a lot of areas, even beyond what might
> be expected in a group like rec.arts.christian.  Things like styles
> of worship;  various preachers/evangelists (Hagen, Copeland, etc.);
> what denomination we are and how that affects us;  whether music/movies/
> dancing/books are inherently good or evil...a lot of the things that
> have come up lately that we need to address in our everyday Christian
> walk.

Yes, yes, yes! I think this is an inspired title.

Being Christians affects (or should do) all areas of our life as
individuals, and the way we interact with each other. This results in a
distinctive "Christian" culture which gets superimposed over our
national cultures without completely replacing them.

I haven't read s.r.c, but the comments in this group seem to indicate
that it is concerned mainly with debating points of theological
interest. Soc.culture.christian would be a good home for discussions
about the way we live as Christians, in all sorts of areas, and would
probably be broad enough to contain all the non-music threads that have
appeared here.

Definitely "unmoderated", else the discussion gets so  s l o w !

I agree with another poster that this is an interesting group - it
hasn't bothered me at all when the topic has become non-musical: it is
nice to have a forum for discussing issues related to Christian living.
And I like the crowd of people here. Sure, we disagree, but who doesn't?

Tony.
-- 
Tony Mountifield     (G4CJO)       | Microware Systems (UK) Ltd.
Email:  tony@microware.co.uk       | Colden Common, WINCHESTER, SO21 1TH.
(or:  ...!uknet!mwuk!tony)         | Tel: 0703 601990   Fax: 0703 601991
------------------------------------------------------------------------
** Any opinions are mine, not Microware's - but you knew that anyway. **
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: jlaplant@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John R Laplante)
Subject: Re: Do We Need a New newsgroup? (was Re: Those Nasty Fundamentalists)
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 20:22:34 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.144317.22359@meaddata.com> mcr@meaddata.com (Mary Ries) writes:
>
  all sorts of stuff deleted.

  to all the previous posts on this thread: yes, yes, yes.

  I won't re-iterate all the points in detail, but the evangelical v. other
  distinction in r.m.c and s.r.c, the threading of not-nuts-and-bolts
  music stuff in this group, the spontaniety (sp) of an unmoderated group, 
  etc. i all agree with. 

  the options, as i see it (in decending order of preference)
  1) keep things as they are. allow threads to get off the track. i like
     the group of people here.
  2) add a group s.r.evangelical
  3) add a group s.r.arts

  Someone posted a note about a musical presentation, and asked where
  the appropriate group to post it in would be. my answer: here!
  make sure you limit distribution (in this case, to "oh").


--------------------------------------------------------------------------
john r la plante                    calling from the Ohio State University
jlaplant@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu  political analysis done while you wait


 

Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: walton@gcnext.gac.peachnet.edu (Sam Walton)
Subject: Re: AMY AMY AMY AMY AMY AMY AMY AMY AMY AMY
Organization: Georgia College - Milledgeville, GA
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 13:16:48 GMT

This is the only Amy posting that I will respond to because I agree with it.

I hope the person that felt that we didn't want to discuss Amy on the group
because we were afraid or something finally see what he or she wrought. Now
perhaps that person will never again ask for such a thing!

sam walton
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sam Walton      walton@gcnext.gac.peachnet.edu       "What's the frequency,
107 Hollingshed      AOL: sam452                      Kenneth?"..Transient, 
Milledgeville, Ga    Plink: WALTON                    before assaulting Dan
From: sbb1@Ra.MsState.Edu (Shay B. Berthelson)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: ***** WARNKE REBUTTLE ******
Date: 18 Aug 92 21:54:26 GMT
Organization: Mississippi State University

For those of you who think I have something to say real profound sorry, I was
really asking if there is a rebuttle by Mike Warnke and if there is and
it is on the net would someone please mail me a copy soon, The rebuttle is
not on wuarchive only the story is .


Thanks
Shay B.

--
******************************************************************************
** Shay B. Berthelson ******   Don't call me WHITE ***************************
** sbb1@Ra.MsState.EDU *****   I am Danish American **************************
******************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: jlin@convex1.tcs.tulane.edu (Jonah Lin)
Subject: bands like REM
Organization: Tulane University, New Orleans, LA
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 03:46:30 GMT
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-6245]: convex1.tcs.tulane.edu

 My sister wants to know if there is a Christian alternative to REM. She
doesn't like a singer with a high voice. Could someone please post some
suggestions?? Thanks.
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: satoell@eng.auburn.edu (Ellen Ayumi Sato)
Subject: Falwell, Ankerberg, Walter Martin...
Organization: Auburn University, AL
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 01:02:40 GMT


Could anybody tell me who Jerry Falwell, John Ankeberg, and Walter Martin are?
I've heard their names a number of times, but haven't read any book they've
written, watched them on TV, or heard them preaching/teaching.  Do they have 
anything to do with Liberty University, the Christian Research Institute, etc?

Thanks for any information!

Have a great day!  Smile, Jesus loves you!

On the Rock,
Ellen.
satoell@eng.auburn.edu
 
-Sorry for being a bit off subject.  I'm new in this network and haven't really
found any other group where I could ask questions like this...Yup, I'm for the
creation of a rec.culture.christian.  That would be cool!

Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: phil@eecs.nwu.edu (William LeFebvre)
Subject: Re: Is music amoral??
Organization: EECS Department, Northwestern University
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 15:52:29 GMT

In article <drice.714123075@ponder>, drice@ponder.csci.unt.edu (Keith Rice) writes:
|> >drice@ponder.csci.unt.edu (Keith Rice) writes:
|> >> "Stairway" is considered to be a classic example of a song with
|> >> backward messages dealing with Satan.  Jimmy Page of Led Zeppelin is
|> >> an avowed follower of Alistair (sp?) Crowley's writings.  I can't
|> >> remember exactly what "Stairway" says backwards as I have lent mt
|> >> tape of its message to a friend but it is most definitely satanic.

Many years ago, a few friends of mine and I recorded "Stairway" on a
reel-to-reel deck, looped the tape over the capstan backwards and 
proceeded to listed to the entire 7(?) minutes backwards (no digital
sampling back in those days).  We listened very intently for those
evil, Satan-inspired, lyrics, figuring that when we heard them we would 
know.  Guess what?  We never heard them.  So, in my humble opinion, if
they are there they are so subdued and unobvious that I really don't
see why everyone is so concerned about them.  If you can't even hear
it backwards, what's the big deal?  Sounds like a witch hunt to me.

These days, I am far more concerned about what many so-called musicians
are saying FRONTWARDS to worry about what they are saying backwards.

|> While we're on the subject of backward messages, I pose another question
|> for discussion.  Why do we only hear of satanic messages in secular rock
|> music and never hear Godly messages when the songs are played in reverse?

Petra, on "Beat the System", side 1, second cut (I forgot the name).
It starts out with very blatant backmasking.  And what does it say,
you ask?  "Why are you so busy looking for the devil when you should
be looking for the Lord?"

Later,

		William LeFebvre
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: moss@mdd.comm.mot.com (Barry Moss)
Subject: Soundman wanted for Christian band (Morningstar)
Organization: Motorola - Mobile Data Division; Richmond, BC
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 19:41:18 GMT


Since there isn't a rec.music.christian.jobs group, I thought I'd post
this here.

I was recently talking with the folks at New Creation Ministries in 
Edmonton. They are still looking for a soundman for Monringstar, a 
volunteer Christian band that perfomrs both family (worship & praise)
and (youth) rock concerts across Canada. Morningstar tours from 
September to June with a completely new set of personel each year. 

As with many ministry teams, each person on the team is responsible for
raising their own sponsorship from friends, family, members of their
congregation, etc.; i.e. there is no direct salary provided.

I took a year off from my career (July '91 to June '92) to tour with
Morningstar as their soundman last year, so I can vouch for the 
organization and the effectiveness of the ministry. 

If you would like to know more about Morningstar you can reply to me 
by e-mail. If you would like to apply for the position, please contact:

	Betty Ann Kehler, Director of Team Ministries
	New Creation Ministries
	#202 - 12013 - 76 Street
	Edmonton, Alberta
	Canada  T5B 2C9

	(403) 471-2744

By the way, I am posting this on my own initiative, NCM doesn't even
know what Internet is! So just tell them you heard about the position
from me.

Disclaimer: I don't actually work for NCM anymore, but I'm willing to 
	    help them out whenever I'm able.

Barry Moss

-- 
Barry Moss				 (604) 277-1511
Motorola: Mobile Data Division, 11411 Number Five Road
Richmond, BC, Canada  V7A 4Z3
Disclaimer: These opinions are my own, not those of Motorola.
From: jonp@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Jon Pennington)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1992 14:41:09 GMT
Subject: Re: Important Words
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Loveland, CO
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian

Another reference comes to mind here:

James 3:7-8  All kinds of animals, birds, reptiles, and creatures
             of the sea are being tamed and have been tamed by man,
             but no man can tame the tongue.  It is a restless evil,
             full of deadly poison.

Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: caw@gtech.com (Christopher A. White)
Subject: Sarcasm (was Re: Amy Grant's "Sexy" comment)
Organization: GTECH Corporation, West Greenwich, RI
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1992 14:59:23 GMT

Speaking strictly from a technical perspective, sarcasm is one of the most
effective ways of exposing faulty reasoning (although I believe that the
remarks in question would be considered satire, anyone got a dictionary
handy?). I find it odd that so many christians are willing to "call a spade
a spade" until it is turned on them. If the logic is faulty, unreasonable,
or anything else, then it is and I don't think we should pussyfoot around 
about saying so. (We must keep in mind, however, to be very careful about
distinguishing the argument from the argumentor and charge each one accurately.
A charge of ad hommne was thrown out, but I'm not sure that would be an
accurate charge, I need to review the exact wording.)

Besides, even Christ was sarcastic on occasion.

Topher
-- 
 Christopher A. White                    | Here's a test to see if you've
 caw@gtech.com                           | completed your mission in life. 
 GTech Corporation, West Greenwich, RI   | Are you alive? You haven't.
 The opinions expressed are mine alone   |        - Bach
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: lmc@cs.cornell.edu (Linda Marie Competillo)
Subject: Re: Recommendation for video...
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 19:36:53 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.180741.10670@athena.mit.edu> sdeering@athena.mit.edu (Scott E Deering) writes:
>In article <1992Aug20.130351.6861@relay.nswc.navy.mil>, snorthc@nswc.navy.mil (Stephen Northcutt) writes:
>|> >On the first night of the camp, before our Passover Feast, we would like
>|> >to show a movie/video related to some kind of mystical journey to the kids 
>|> >to set the tone for the camp.  The movie can be either secular/Christian.
>|> >Please let me know if you have any suggestion for the movie.  Thanks.
>|> 
>|> Wasn't there a movie called exodus, starring someone like Charleston
>|> Heston?  That might be appropriate.  I sort of remember the theme
>|> song... I think it was called exodus as well.  :-)  :-)  :-) 
>|> ===================================================================
>
>I think you mean the movie "The Ten Commandments" by Cecil B. De Ville. Chuck
>played Moses in that one...
>
>-scott
>sdeering@athena.mit.edu


No, he's right. I remember a movie entitled "Exodus" with a theme song by
the same title, but I don't remember who played in it or anything about it.

    Linda
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: jeffries@iastate.edu (Anthony G Jeffries)
Subject: Re: Warnke files
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 04:11:01 GMT

Forget what I wrote before.  The Warnke files on wuarchive are GONE.  
I just checked.


-- 
Anthony Glen Jeffries N0NRO               |------------------------|
N0NRO@N0AN.IA.USA.NA  (packet--ham radio) |-Iowa State University--|
jeffries@iastate.edu                      |-------Ames, Iowa-------|
tabl4@isuvax.iastate.edu                  |------------------------| 
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: phil@eecs.nwu.edu (William LeFebvre)
Subject: Re: DA/Arkangel CD reissues available
Organization: EECS Department, Northwestern University
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 20:54:42 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.142944.27565@cbnews.cb.att.com>, ajw@cbnews.cb.att.com (andrew.j.whitman) writes:

|> >ARKANGEL - Warrior (Joyeuse Garde)
|> >KEMPER CRABB - The Vigil (Joyeuse Garde)

|> Ditto on the Arkangel album (I haven't heard the Kemper Crabb solo 
|> effort).  You get a wild man with hair down to his butt singing in  
|> Latin and playing gorgeous, melodic electric guitar and writing
|> some highly allegorical praise music.

WARNING:  if you love (loved) Warrior, don't assume that you will like
The Vigil.  It is similar, but also VERY different.  It is much more
mellow, kinda like the mellower stuff from Warrior without the drums.
Some cuts also are heavy on the background orchestration.  This is really
more like Kemper Crabbe does worship music.  Don't get me wrong, I LOVED
The Vigil, but it is so much unlike Warrior that those expecting something
similar may be disappointed.

I am SO GLAD that these have been re-released on CD.  Warrior is just an
absolutely awesome album!


|>  No wonder it sold squat.  

Yeah, that is too bad.  He was *way* ahead of his time (or was that,
way *behind*?...probably both).

I'd describe The Vigil as:  a wild man with hair down to his butt singing
in Latin and playing gorgeous, melodic ACOUSTIC guitar with some really
nifty medeival instruments in the background, and writing some highly
allegorical praise music, but without a drum track.

		William LeFebvre
		Computing Facilities Manager and Analyst
		Department of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science
		Northwestern University
		<phil@eecs.nwu.edu>
From: kroth@david.wheaton.edu (Ken Roth)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: Kenneth Hagin Was Re: The Warnke Debate
Keywords: FLAME AWAY
Date: 13 Aug 92 06:04:55 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Wheaton College, IL

In article <1992Aug7.054458.5875@galileo.physics.arizona.edu> krueger@galileo.physics.arizona.edu (Ted Krueger) writes:
>In article <63nm68@lynx.unm.edu> morgan7@carina.unm.edu (christopher c lewisair) writes:
>>(for example, Kenneth Hagin's claiming that AIDS will increase
>>until we start formally executing witches and satanists in our society).
>>
>Sorry Chris, but I can't let you get away with that one without a reference.  
>I have studied Jesus with help from Kenneth Hagin for many years and can't 
>believe that he would say something like that.  Unless you can give a 
>complete reference, I will be forced to believe that you have either taken 
>his statement out of context or perhaps that this is simply an urban myth.
>Ted


To be honest, I do not know the source of the earlier quote from Hagin (I
didn't post it) but Hagin has said so many other things that are absurd, or
just plain wrong, that I would not put it past him (I know, a logical fallicy,
but oh well, we all have our quirks8-).

Just a few examples:  (and yes, I do have sources for all of these...)

"You can have what you say.  You can write your own ticket with God.  And the
first step in writing your own ticket with God is :Say it."
He also claims that Jesus told him "If anybody, anywhere, will take these four
steps or put these four principles into operation, he will always have
whatever he wants from Me or God the Father"  (The four steps are: say it, do
it, receive it, and tell it.)  Sounds like God is a gumball machine...

"I wouldn't tell anybody if I had a doubt-thought, or a fear-thought.  I
wouldn't accept it.  I wouldn't tell somebody if the thought came to me - and
you know the devil can put all kinds of thoughts in your mind."  So, if you
are having problems, just deal with them yourself...

"Believe in your heart; say it with your mouth.  That is the principle of
faith.  You can have what you say."

"It is unscriptural to pray, 'If it is the will of God.'  When you put an 'if'
in your prayer, you are praying in doubt."  READ I John 5:14!!!!!!

He has also stated that "...when Jesus appeared to me in a vision, I asked him
and He told me that Paul wrote it [Hebrews]."  It would be nice to have that
kind of authority giving the rest of these answers...

Anyway, you get the idea...

If you want me to mail you the sources of these, I will be more than happy to.
While I am more than convinced that diversity in Christianity is important and
good, contradictions of scripture should NOT be tolerated.  BTW, the items in
quotes are from Hagin, the rest of the comments are mine.

In Christ,
Ken

-- 
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
kroth@wheaton.uucp | uunet!tellab5!wheaton!kroth || They call me Gryfalia   
"We believe, we believe, 'cause we felt it burning in our hearts"--77's
"He is no fool who loses what he cannot keep, to gain what he cannot lose."
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: Tom Moellering <moeller@convex.com>
Subject: Re: Need a Scripture reference
Originator: moeller@neptune.convex.com
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 13:54:51 GMT
Reply-To: moeller@convex.com (Tom Moellering)
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

In article <1992Aug13.133829.3829@cs.cornell.edu> lmc@cs.cornell.edu (Linda Marie Competillo) writes:
>
>Yes, this IS sort of music-related. Can anyone give me a scripture 
>reference to back up a claim I heard last night that Satan was "in charge" 
>of the music in heaven before his fall? I'd sure appreciate a reply today
>if someone's got it.


Actually, I heard he was in charge of the finger-foods, thats why I refuse
to eat those little vienna sausages, they're demonic.

;-)
Tom (moeller@convex.com)
	Does he make you dance like Charo or sing like Jerry Vale?
           Why Is The Devil Red? / Lost Dogs / Scenic Routes
From: elw@mayo.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: The Five Points of Fundamentalism
Date: 20 Aug 92 22:18:21 GMT
Reply-To: elw@mayo.edu
Organization: Mayo Foundation, Rochester MN. Campus

In article 22510@meaddata.com, johnt@meaddata.com (John Townsend) writes:
>I find it hard to believe that any discussion of Christian fundamentalism
>could proceed this far without even mentioning Bob Jones University, in
>Greenville, South Carolina, where even Jerry Falwell and Billy Graham are
>regarded as liberals.  PBS recently did a three-part documentary on
>fundamentalism in which they described fundamentalism in Christianity, Judaism,
>and Islam.  Most of the segment on Christianity was centered around BJU.  Did
>anyone else see this series?
>

I saw the series, and thought that it focused entirely to much on the cultural 
expressions of BJU fundamentalism, barely alluding to confessional issues
in which fundamentalism is rooted.

Charles Colson was briefly interviewed (45 seconds) and made references to 
affirming historic Christian beliefs, unfortunately his interview lasted about 45 
seconds.  Gresham Machen, his expulsion from the Presbyterian Church, and the 
founding of Westminster Seminary was not mentioned at all.  


#include <disclaimers.h>

-------------------------------------------------------
Ellis Workman                   Internet:  elw@mayo.edu
Biomedical Imaging Resource
Mayo Clinic/Foundation          Talk:    (507) 284-4435                  
Rochester, MN 55905             FAX:     (507)-284-1632
-------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: Jerry Low <low%ssdvax.decnet@mdcgwy.mdc.com>
Subject: SCC-The Great Adventure
Organization: MDSSC
X-Xxdate: Mon, 17 Aug 92 03:58:16 GMT
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d7
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 16:54:27 GMT
X-Posted-From: l32282.mdc.com
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

I'm starting a thread about Stephen Curtis Chapman's latest, _The Great
Adventure_.  
Whereas _For the Sake of the Call_ talked about discipleship and what the
entails, my wife 
made the observation that TGA seems to be lending encouragement to
Christians whose walked
are going through hard times, and to view life as an adventure, with it's
peaks and valleys.

Any other observations?  Any SCC fans out there?

Jerry Low

GOTTOBTRU - SCC
From: steiner@jupiter.cse.utoledo.edu (jason "Think!" steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: Is music amoral??
Date: 20 Aug 92 20:56:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: uoft02.1992Aug20.155642.9589
Distribution: usa

noel@crs.cl.msu.edu (Noel Estabrook) writes:
> aaron@binah.cc.brandeis.edu writes:
> >drice@ponder.csci.unt.edu (Keith Rice) writes:
>
> >People have a really hard time with this.  I don't understand. 
> >PEOPLE are evil, PEOPLE bring glory to whatever god they serve,
> >etc.  How can one assign
> 
> This sounds very much like the NRA`s argument that GUNS don't kill
> people,  PEOPLE do.  

and y'know what? the NRA is absolutely correct. guns are tools. music
is a tool. either one can be used for ill or good. and i happen to
like them both.

> >One CANNOT assign the traits of individuals to objects!
> 
> I'd hate to be the one to tell God that.  He again and again
> condemned the Isrealites for fashioning idols (objects).  To God,
> anyway, these "objects" carried traits that he didn't want them
> messing with.  By the same token, musical pieces may just be
> "objects", but the individuals that made them along with their
> content certainly CAN be assigned traits.

which trait of the idol did God hate, exactly? the gold part? the
fact that it was shaped like a calf? are these things inherently evil?
only in combination with each other? give me a break.

God didn't hate the idol's -traits-. he hated the fact that worship
that should rightly be going to -Him- was being usurped by something
less. he still hates it. to twist the words of the NRA, it's not 
the music that's evil, it's people's worship of it that is. and y'know
what? people are just as capable of abusing "Christian" music as
"secular".

that long haired, gun-toting, fundamentalist freak
jason

--
"In my world there's just us 3: U, me and G-O-D." - Arrested Development, U 
`,`,`,`,` part 2 in the "quotes from songs titled U" .sig series ,`,`,`,`,`
`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,` steiner@jupiter.cse.utoledo.edu `,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`