HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kerryg@stat.rice.edu (Kerry Go)
Subject: Re: Oriental bias against Indians ? How true ?
Organization: Dept. of Statistics, Rice University
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 18:55:15 GMT

In article <70164@ut-emx.uucp> vishram@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Vishram P.Dalvi) writes:
>	I am no racist but I do think that most Asians (whether from 
>Asia or born here) do have a much more understanding attitude towards 
>life and friends as compared to a lot of Americans. What I mean to say 
>is that WE take life with much more seriousness than THEM. I have also 
>noticed atleast amongst Indians that they are very adaptible to new 
>environments and people and that's what makes it so easy for us to move 
>in with totally unknown people when we come here and also to let strange 
>people stay with us (like new arrivals from our country) even when we 
>don't know them at all back in India and also to play mentors when ever
>the need arises.
>        Is it the same with Chinese too ? How social are Chinese people ?
>One of my friends from Hongkong was applying to Medical School and when
>he sought my help for something, he was totally surprised to find that
>my room-mates too came forward to help him with what ever they could. He
>told me that this would have NEVER happened with the Chinese guys he
>knew. No intentions to offend any body here, but I am curious to know
>how true it is.

I think it depends more on the size of the group of people.  For example,
some Christian communties exhibit this behavior.  If there are few <insert
your favorite group here> people you can come in contact with now, you might
feel a bond toward all of <favorite group>, but if everyone you saw here
were <favorite group>, you probably would not have that closeness with all
of them.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: as6n@uvacs.cs.Virginia.EDU (Ambar Sarkar)
Subject: Dear "Oriental bias against Indians - Originator"
Organization: University of Virginia Computer Science Department
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 05:31:30 GMT

Brother Vishram!

I missed most of the discussion before, so help me god!

I am sure you care for the girl, but:

1. Methinks the girl was NOT interested in you romantically and so she (ahem!)
    spurned your advances. Well, that's her choice. And just that choice does not
    make her biased  against INDIANS. Give the girl a break!

2. Move on, find greener pastures! Or hang on till she realizes what a ______
   you are and finally gives in! I recommend: give the girl a break!

PS: 
Your observation  about orientals adapting their names and Indians retaining 
theirs  is NOT entirely accurate. In fact, lots of dudes here do adapt their names:

Indian examples:

Krishna to Kris, Vandana to Wendy, Sandeep to Sandy, Sanjay-> Sunny,
Ambar(pronounced: Awmbawr) -> Amber,
Vishram -> Soon to be announced!

I have also seen Mike, John, Dave and so on among 2nd generation Indians.

Most of them, as we can see, do find close approximations and hence do not adopt
an entirely different name. They adapt if they can and care.

Oriental examples and counter-examples:

  Xiaolene-> Shirley, Xiaoxie to Georgie....(Help me out guys and gals)

  Shi-Chin remained Shi-chin, Juhn-Young remained so, Young-kuk remained so!

TO SUM UP: Give Indians a break! Give orientals a break!(*) Do your homework before 
           you post such generalizations!
    
   
(*)VOICE LOST IN WILDERNESS:
           Give the rest of the world a break!
   

DISCLAIMER: Flame me. Send no cliches! Checks and Credit cards accepted.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: kerryg@stat.rice.edu (Kerry Go)
Subject: Re: One more time on this (AA spokesperson)
Organization: Dept. of Statistics, Rice University
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 06:07:59 GMT

In article <1992Apr15.234433.17795@en.ecn.purdue.edu> oshiro@en.ecn.purdue.edu (Woodrow S Oshiro) writes:
>In article <1992Apr15.201930.16572@rice.edu> kerryg@stat.rice.edu (Kerry Go) writes:
>>Asian comics are a very rare breed.  I don't know whether this is common in
>>Asians in Asian, but I have met more than a few 1st-generation Asians who
>>do not get any joke whatsoever.  Not that they are trying to be difficult
>>or offended; they simply take everything literally and do not see the
>>"alternative" meaning of a phrase necessary to get a joke.
>
>You are talking about first generation Asian Americans, aren't you?  The
>explanation seems quite obvious to me.  They have not gained the "cultural
>experience" necessary for the appreciation of humor in America.  Humor is
>often based upon subtleties of expression.  In turn, these subtleties are
>based upon American culture.  Just because an immigrant understands English  
>on a technical level, it does not mean that he understands the culture which
>surrounds the language.

Actually, these people have said that they don't understand jokes in their
native language, either.

>By the way, the Japanese have a long tradition of humor, and there are
>many humorists in Japan today.
>
>>  Is this inability
>>to get jokes common?  (If this *is* a common trait, it is discouraging to
>>those of us who want to be comics for Asian audiences :-)
>
>Anyone ever hear of the claim that if it wasn't for Mark Twain there wouldn't
>have been any humor in ninteenth century America?  Anyone ever hear the claim
>that the Jewish people brought humor to America?

No.  Nor do I have enough knowledge about eighteenth century America t
determine whether you meant this is true or just a saying.
From: oshiro@en.ecn.purdue.edu (Woodrow S Oshiro)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: One more time on this (AA spokesperson)
Date: 16 Apr 92 23:16:43 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

In article <1992Apr16.060759.2975@rice.edu> kerryg@stat.rice.edu (Kerry Go) writes:
>In article <1992Apr15.234433.17795@en.ecn.purdue.edu> oshiro@en.ecn.purdue.edu (Woodrow S Oshiro) writes:
>>You are talking about first generation Asian Americans, aren't you?  The
>>explanation seems quite obvious to me.  They have not gained the "cultural
>>experience" necessary for the appreciation of humor in America.  Humor is
>>often based upon subtleties of expression.  In turn, these subtleties are
>>based upon American culture.  Just because an immigrant understands English  
>>on a technical level, it does not mean that he understands the culture which
>>surrounds the language.
>
>Actually, these people have said that they don't understand jokes in their
>native language, either.

Maybe something gets lost in the translation. (So what's new. :-))
They can certainly appreciate a joke from their native land told in their 
native tongue.  After all, they do seem to understand what a joke IS.

>>Anyone ever hear of the claim that if it wasn't for Mark Twain there wouldn't
>>have been any humor in ninteenth century America?  Anyone ever hear the claim
>>that the Jewish people brought humor to America?
>
>No.  Nor do I have enough knowledge about eighteenth century America t
>determine whether you meant this is true or just a saying.

I'm not sure about the validity of these claims.  I heard about them in a 
PBS special on Jewish humor.  The reason I presented these claims in my
article was to show that Asians are not the only people who have been accused
of lacking a sense of humor.
-- 


						Woody Oshiro
						oshiro@en.ecn.purdue.edu
From: mds4101@sigma.tamu.edu (SZETO, MARVIN DEAN)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: China never as prosperous as Europe?
Keywords: predestination
Date: 15 Apr 92 15:09:00 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.asian.american
Distribution: na
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Apr14.213537.10723@leland.Stanford.EDU>, underdog@leland.
Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes...
>In article <kum5jfINN5qa@jethro.Corp.Sun.COM>
>melindac@thedarktower.Corp.Sun.COM (I Shop because It's There) writes:
>>[anti-DJ comments deleted]
>>As always, you change the rules of the game so that you appear the winner.
>>
>>	Melinda

[initial DJ comments deleted, but same argument posted for I don't know how
 many times]

>To that, I must say the following.  The USA and Western Europe are
>more prosperous and well off than at any point in Chinese history.
>The same goes for Japan and S. Korea.  What seems to be the matter with
>Chinese society?

Dwight,

Why don't you answer any of my posts?  Are you (the great intellectual from 
prestigious Stanford) afraid to debate me (a lowly Aggie from Texas)?   Perhaps
you are being kind and considerate to a "virulent" person who identifies with
Chinese culture?  *NOT!*

If I understand your argument, you claim that Chinese culture is inferior 
because it has never been as prosperous as modern day Western nations (U.S., 
Western Europe, Japan, Korea, etc.).  As I have said before, BIG DEAL!  Most
of the rest of the world has never been as prosperous as the Western nations.

To put this in perspective:

1)  There are roughly 4 billion people in the world today.

2)  There are over 1 billion people in China today.

3)  The Western nations you mention have a combined population less than 
    1 billion, but I'll round it up to 1 billion to keep this simple.

4)  Only 1 in 4 billion have achieved the prosperity of modern Western culture.
    Is 75% of the world's population "barbaric" or "virulent"?

5)  Even when the 1 billion Chinese are removed from the comparison, only 1 in
    3 billion has achieved the prosperity of Western culture.  (Please note that
    the poor and homeless in the Western nations have not been removed from the
    total population even though they are just as bad or worse off than the 
    Chinese or Indians or Ukranians, etc.)

Are you saying that the Western nations are an oasis of perfection in a sea of
"barbaric" and "virulent" cultures?

>The Chinese culture destroyed the hopes and dreams of generations of
>Chinese--of an entire nation.  It's the same culture where infanticide
>is condoned--past and present.

Again the myth of infanticide rears its ugly head.  Does this remind anyone of
the original poster? :)  As I've said before, if you make this accusation, 
prove it with thoughts from independent observers not in this argument (or is
that an oxymoron?).


Marvin Szeto
no sig file
From: kemnitz@netcom.com (Greg Kemnitz)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: China never as prosperous as Europe?
Keywords: predestination
Date: 14 Apr 92 17:53:12 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <1992Apr13.193403.10890@leland.Stanford.EDU>, underdog@leland.
Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes...
>I meant that "At no point in Chinese history has China ever been 
>as prosperous and well off as the [MODERN = 20th century] USA
>or Western Europe".  Mr. Kemnitz is doing what basically many people

It is true that China has never been as prosperous and well off as the 20th
century US has.  Nobody has - the US is the most successful empire of our
times.  But that is irrelevant - the US simply has joined Egypt, Greece, Rome,
Tang China, the Mongol Empire, Ming and early Qing China, Spain, and Britain
as the leading power of its age, and each succeeding empire was always richer
than its predecessor.

Clearly if you are trying to compare modern empires to empires from history on
direct measures without taking into account ongoing advances in both technology
and human experience, then you are being rather naive.  It would be like saying
that the US military is superior to Egypt or Rome because the US could drive
its M1 Abrams tanks over Roman legions or Egyptian cavalry, or that American
democracy is superior to Greek democracy because the Greeks had slaves.  Such
comparisons across the centuries/millenia are meaningless.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Greg Kemnitz                        | "I ran out of the room - I
MultiMedia Information Systems Inc. | didn't want to be killed by a pile
kemnitz@netcom.com                  | of VMS manuals" :-)
                                    |
                                    | --A friend at DEC Palo Alto in the Quake
From: timlee@public.btr.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Is there an anti-racism group of some kind in this country?
Date: 6 Apr 92 06:34:16 GMT
Reply-To: timlee@btr.com (Timothy J. Lee)
Followup-To: soc.culture.asian.american
Distribution: na

kyee@bnlux1.bnl.gov (kenton yee) writes:
|jpak@oakhill.sps.mot.com (James Pak) writes:
|>Well, now I have to ask this question.  Is there some kind of organized group
|>of people working toward the cause of stopping racism (against ANY race) in
|>this country?  I'm talking about a multi-racial, all-inclusive, anybody can
|>join, every-type-of-racism-is-our-business kind of group.
|
|  Naacp, ACLU, Rainbow Coalition, 
|  Jewish defense league, blah blah blah...  Even David Duke's
|  group claims to be an antiracism group.  

A claim is not always believable.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: it1@Ra.MsState.Edu (Tim Tsai)
Subject: Re: Oriental bias against Indians ? How true ?
Organization: Mississippi State University
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 05:32:05 GMT

chrchan@ocf.berkeley.edu (Christopher S. Chan) writes:
[...]
>Still, I believe that when
>people of different cultures marry, there'll certainly be
>conflicts.  Someone's culture has got to give, and I think this
>is a bad thing.  

  Marriage, by definition, will result in conflicts.  In good marriages,
however, the partners learn to share.  I see no wrong in that.

  Tim
From: achin@math.tamu.edu (Andrew Chin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: One more time on this (AA spokesperson)
Date: 13 Apr 92 00:01:08 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Dept of Mathematics, Texas A&M University

Linking together this topic with "AA ministers and churches," how
effective do you think an "AA Jesse Jackson" would be?  I don't
think AA ministers have shown the leadership skills that could
unite and mobilize AA communities the way many African-American
preachers have, especially here in the South.  Despite the
rapid growth of AA churches, they're still not influential
among AA's, mainstream churches or mainstream communities.

Alternatively, an AA minister could try to climb the hierarchy
of the mainstream churches; no one in this group so far has
ever seen an AA pastor of a mainstream congregation.  Sunday
mornings being the most segregated time of the week in America,
what would be the significance of an AA breakthrough here?
-- 
Andrew Chin    Dept. of Math.    Texas A&M U.    College Station, TX 77843
achin@math.tamu.edu   Probably not TAMU's exact opinions.   (409) 845-1924
                * Fighting racism is not a special interest *
From: tcheung@ramius.ocf.llnl.gov
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: One more time on this (AA spokesperson)
Date: 16 Apr 92 17:43:06 GMT
Organization: University of California, Davis / LLNL

In article <1992Apr16.151255.27799@nynexst.com> clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu Ayala) writes:
->In article <1992Apr15.201930.16572@rice.edu> kerryg@stat.rice.edu (Kerry Go) writes:
->>In article <57340@cup.portal.com> Arthur_T_Hu@cup.portal.com writes:
->>>Hey, why not an Asian
->>>
->>>- Eddie Murphy
->>
->>Asian comics are a very rare breed.  I don't know whether this is common in
->>Asians in Asian, but I have met more than a few 1st-generation Asians who
->>do not get any joke whatsoever.  Not that they are trying to be difficult
->>or offended; they simply take everything literally and do not see the
->>"alternative" meaning of a phrase necessary to get a joke.  Is this inability
->>to get jokes common?  (If this *is* a common trait, it is discouraging to
->>those of us who want to be comics for Asian audiences :-)
->
->
->  It seems that way for 1st-generation "Oriental" people.  But I think
->  Filipinos have a great sense of humor.  My parents (Chinese) are very
->  serious, but my friends' parents (Filipino) are always making jokes
->  and laughing.  It's definitely much more fun to be with older generation
->  that have great sense of humor.

Gee, just because 1st-generation AA don't get the English jokes doesn't
they don't have great sense of humor.  There are Asian comedians in Asia.
The reason they don't get the joke could either attribute to their English
skills or to their different cultural backgrounds.

->
->  On another note, there is a great tradition of Jewish comedians.
->  George Burns comes to mind.  I went to a taping of HA-TV and I
->  was one of the few non-Jews there.  There were so many funny jokes.
->-- 
->-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
->Clare Chu, Ph.D.             Data & Information Services
->NYNEX Science & Technology   clare@nynexst.com
->White Plains, NY 10462       AMIGA RULES!!!

--
Terry Cheung
tcheung@ramius.ocf.llnl.gov
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Friday, 10 Apr 1992 21:03:46 CDT
From: <U14540@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Chinatown unsafe? (was Re: Will America fa
 <kubgs2INN2dk@male.EBay.Sun.COM>

In article <kubgs2INN2dk@male.EBay.Sun.COM>, janew@woobaby.EBay.Sun.COM (Jane
Woo) says:
>
>>>Is this true?  Is Chinatown (SF) more unsafe than it was, say, five years   ?
>ago

Chinatown is really safe. In fact just the other day a fine young man asked
to park my BMW for free. Not wanting to take advantage of the lad I declined.
Then as I was walking down the street I bumped into the boy again. Imagine
my suprise when I saw he was holding my wallet. Being such a nice boy
he returned it to me. The scoundrel who took my wallet got away with
my condoms and about $300. I still think Chinatown it very safe.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu Ayala)
Subject: Re: Oriental bias against Indians ? How true ?
Organization: Nynex Science and Technology
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 92 12:41:13 GMT

In article <1992Apr10.200936.28288@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> shay@osiris (George Shay) writes:
>
>Be honest, I will not let my sister date an Indian unless I know this guy
>very well, sure he has nice personality and good education. Before that I
>will not let her do it. Personally I do not hate indians, in fact, my
>advisor was an Indian, and I do appreciate he gave me a lot of help.

  Let your sister!  Hey guy, your sister can do as she pleases.
  This isn't the old country, and she isn't your possession.
  If I were your sister, I'd give you a thump on the head.

>
>
>So all in all, never expect you would be understood by other races.

  Nor by the other sex, it seems... 
>
>
>
>it is just my $.02.
>
>
>George
>


-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Clare Chu, Ph.D.             Data & Information Services
NYNEX Science & Technology   clare@nynexst.com
White Plains, NY 10462       AMIGA RULES!!!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: s9874203@titan.ucc.umass.edu (s9874203)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: UNDERDOG:  WAKE UP AND OPEN YOUR MIND.
Keywords: predestination
Date: 15 Apr 92 22:03:15 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst

In article <1992Apr15.013941.13394@medsys.rn.com> bbs@medsys.UUCP (Public BBS System) writes:
>In article <1992Apr12.005212.6475@leland.Stanford.EDU> underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
>>
>>At no point in Chinese history has China ever been as prosperous
>>and well off as the USA or Western Europe.  Even if you reach back
>>3000 years like the way many China-philes like to do, you will find
>>that China was far worse than modern Western society.  There was
>>no penicillin, no antibiotics, no Bill of Rights, no human decency
>>(but that's always been true, hasn't it?), etc. in China.
>>
>
>That is right. And so many Chinese praise Confucius I simply cannot understand
>why. Did Confucius know anything about group theory? Did he know anything
>about solving differential equations? Did he speak English? I doubt very
>much if he even knew how to ride a bicycle, not mentioning driving a car.
>
>Chou1
>                                           
You seem to be a mathematician. Then answer the following questions:
Did Newton know group theory?
Did Pascal know computer languages?
Did Archimedes (I am not sure of the spelling, sorry) know calculus?
...
I feel sad for your logic.:-(
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: jordan@cs.tulane.edu (Misti Jordan)
Subject: Re: Engineers (was Re: Asian Immigrants on SAT English)
Organization: Computer Science Dept., Tulane Univ., New Orleans, LA
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 17:14:52 GMT
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-1444]: sinbad


In article <MDAY.92Apr16103834@jukebox.lcs.mit.edu>, mday@jukebox.lcs.mit.edu (Mark Day) writes:
>
>    kerryg@stat.rice.edu (Kerry Go) writes:
>
>    > tcheung@ramius.ocf.llnl.gov writes:
>
>    >Just because you don't score say 500 on SAT English does not mean you can't
>    >be successful in college.  It doesn't mean you can't be a good engineer
>    >either.
>
>    Of course not.  Just as you can be a good engineer despite lacking
>    communication skills.  But gaining those skills can make you an even better
>    one.
>
> Do people really think this is true?
>
> A lot depends on what we mean by a "good" engineer.  Sometimes people
> think that a good engineer is someone who, working alone, gets the
> right answer to a problem.  Unfortunately, for real engineers this
> skill is much less important than understanding an ill-formed problem,
> solving a problem with a team of other people, and convincing others
> to accept the solution.  None of those is possible without
> communication skills.
>
> So I don't believe what either of the above people agreed on: that you
> can be a good engineer despite lacking communication skills.  You can
> succeed in engineering school despite poor communication skills, but
> that's a different matter.
>
> --Mark Day
>
> mday@lcs.mit.edu

I agree with Mark.  I worked at an Engineering firm over one summer, and
I know that you have to be able to work well in a group.  Although each
person is assigned a specific task of a project, he/she has to be able
to talk to the other engineers so everyone's individual tasks will click
together in the end.  Also, through good communication skills, you can
get management positions and be able to form friendships easier with
co-workers.  I'm not trying to say that people don't become friends with
people with poor communication skills.  I'm saying it's easier to form
friendships with people that have good ones.

-Jenny