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Approved-By:  Bill McGarry <wtm@SHELDEV.SHEL.ISC-BR.COM>
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Date:         Fri, 24 Jul 1992 10:35:04 EDT
Reply-To:     Bill McGarry <wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com>
From:         Bill McGarry <wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com>
Subject:      Handicap Digest # 2822
X-To:         LHCAP <l-hcap@VM1.NODAK.EDU>

                             THE HANDICAP DIGEST

                                 Issue # 2822

                            Friday, July 24, 1992

Today's Topics:


                                ******


                            Re: Topic suggestion
                     Re: Shoulder Amputation & Feelings
                                    HELLO
                              Re: Indolight(sp)
                                  Re: HELLO
                              Re: Indolight(sp)
                            Competition calls....
                                Re: PAIN MEDS
                           Conservative treatment
                                  Stupid Me


                                ******


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                              Bill McGarry (Moderator)
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Subject: Re: Topic suggestion
From: Ann.Thomas@f6.n290.z1.fidonet.org (Ann Thomas)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:290/6 - Karma *VS* Dogma, Des Moines IA


[This is from the Amputee Conference]

WB>> Would you please
  >>send me the cost of an ineffective & inadequate artificial arm
  >>as you were  unwilling to recommend, send or provide a
  >>medically necessary & more useful myo-electric arm."

 BB> Wayne,

 BB>       I have seen several of your messages where you claim that
 BB>       a Myoelectric arm is medically necessary and more useful
 BB>  than a body powered prosthesis.

 BB>       Would you present some evidence that this is true?
 BB>  Explain please, why bilateral arm amputees who must actually
 BB>  function with their prostheses always do so with hooks?  The
 BB>  main benefits of myoelectrics is enjoyed by the bank accounts
 BB>  of those who are selling them.

Hi Bill.
        Give my best to Joyce.

        I have to agree with you.  Except for a book put out by a
        prosthetics place, which is obviously designed to sell more of
        their limbs, I have never seen a bi-lateral who had fuction with
        the limbs who used the cosmetic stuff.  There have been a couple
        of bi-lateral shoulders who used the electrics to move the
        elbows, but used hooks.

        I am getting better at doing things without the hooks, and I am
        kind of starting to understand why I was so rock headed against
        the way Joyce does her tasks.  I susspet that it would have
        meant looking at my stumps all of the time.  I thought they were
        ugly and must be hidden.  Part of the insanity that had me off
        the echo for 7 weeks.

        That has gotten batter to the point that I am going to the beach
        tommarrow, and the arms will be in the car, but I am not wearing
        them to and from the beach.  If they are needed I have them and
        a top to put on.  I do not know about you but this feels like
        real progress.  [I guess I am talking to Joyce in part of this].

'Here's hooking at ya, babe.'  Anna

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!290!6!Ann.Thomas
Internet: Ann.Thomas@f6.n290.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Re: Shoulder Amputation & Feelings
From: Ann.Thomas@f6.n290.z1.fidonet.org (Ann Thomas)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:290/6 - Karma *VS* Dogma, Des Moines IA


[This is from the Amputee Conference]

 WB> THANKS FOR YOUR MESSAGE & CALLS. My wife was in the same room
 WB> and  I was selfconscious & embarassed to talk on a feelings
 WB> level. I haave done OK in not upsetting her until a few days
 WB> ago we were driving and she asked me what I will miss most.
 WB> IMMEDIATELY without thinkin I said "Having 2 arms to hold you
 WB> with ..nothing else is as important" and started crying.

        I have been talking to Bear and agree with him that the crying
        is a good start.  As for the part about having two arms to hold
        a lover.  I have it on good information that when the mood is
        right the lack of limbs, or vestigal limbs work just as well,
        you just change position and technique.

        If your taking care of your self, your wife will be better able
        to deal with her own self care.

    WB> Since Dr. Ezacki said that she thought shoulder disarticulation
 WB> was the thing to do; my mental status has improved: I now can
 WB> remember a 7 digit phone number long enough to make a phone
 WB> call, I no longer wake up depressed or anxious, there is no
 WB> depression or conscious anxiety at bed time (had to get
 WB> sleeping pill to go to sellp ofter sleeping 1 time for 2 hours
 WB> in three dayY (YES, Denile is neiter in Egypt nor a river- HA!.

        Sounds like your worrying about tomarrow a lot.  It doesn't
        matter.  Take care of today and tomarrow will just fall into
        place.  ODAAT!  Bear says your a believer.  Well, my experience
        that the Goddess [or whomever your personal higher power is]
        always semms to take care of me.  Not the way "I" want it, just
        ok in the long way.  The trick is doing today and letting your
        HP take care of tomarrow.

 WB> For years I was & told my patientsthat I was "licing death on
 WB> Valium". This was because of not wantin g people to develop
 WB> cross addictions, valium addictionrebound anxiety, impairmn at
 WB> work or driving the person dosen't realize and a smug desire to
 WB> be superior as well as a belief that except for (a) persons
 WB> with potentially life threating diseases such as colitusm &
 WB> etc. and (b)  folks who had to tell their kids that a parent
 WB> died oe need help thru an extremely stressful 24-72 hour
 WB> period; it wasn't a good way to treat anxiety. NOW I'M HAVING
 WB> TO TAKE VALIUM BECAUSE OF THE MUSCLE SPASMS IN MY
 WB> NON-FUNCTIONAL ARM (no place else) and I'm eating crow.

        Its what you have to do.  Pull the Recovery echo and talk to
        Nadine Thomas about having to use medications that otherwise are
        addictive.  I think I will forward this message to Nadine and
        then cross post her reply.  OK?  She is really sweet person with
        several disabling conditions, and major pain/energy problems.

 WB> Dr. Ezaki couln'd get both an OR & a qualified assistant until
 WB> 8-17. 8-12-90 was when I was attacked. 8-91 Charlotte had a
 WB> major depression & also was planning to divorce me, 8-17-92 a

        Ya know that digging up the past over something like this really
        makes it harder.  While it needed that issues rom the past need
        to be grieved, if they are brought up as a form of pity then
        they become distructive.  Take my word for it, I am an expert.
        In one of the 12 step programs they have a saying about beuing
        in the past and in the future;  If one foot is in the past, and
        the other is in the future your pissing all over today.

 WB> So we are headed to see Dr. J. Ryy at Thomason Hospital Tech.
 WB> Tech. Medical School in El Paso. Dr. Ruy leave & moves to
 WB> Virgnias the end of this month! --- MacWoof Eval:03May92

        I already know that you were too sick for the surgery.  It will
        happen when its supposed to, not one instant earlier or later.
        Let your God take care of it while you do the work needed today.
        Take care of your self.  you sound like you have a cat-a-9-tails
        out and have been beating your self with it.

        Be kind to yourself.  OK?

'Here's hooking at ya, babe.'  Anna

... A conclusion is simply the place where you got tired of thinking.

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!290!6!Ann.Thomas
Internet: Ann.Thomas@f6.n290.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: HELLO
From: Daniel.Santos@f406.n203.z1.fidonet.org (Daniel Santos)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:203/406 - Sacramento Online!, Sacramento CA


[This is from the Amputee Conference]

I just logged onto this echo today and wanted to introduce myself.
I am Daniel Santos and I own Sacramento Orthopedic Appliance Co.
My father has been an amputee since before I was born and presently
wears a left, AK prosthesis.

I have been asked by a local group to aid in starting a support
group for recent and prospective amptutees.  I would appreciate any
help I could get towards that end.

In any case please feel free to introduce yourself.

Thanks, Daniel Santos

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!203!406!Daniel.Santos
Internet: Daniel.Santos@f406.n203.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Re: Indolight(sp)
From: Drew.Dunn@f337.n202.z1.fidonet.org (Drew Dunn)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:202/337 - Yak Attack BBS, La Mesa CA


[This is from the Amputee Conference]

-> say it is the closes thing to a real leg that there is.  I feel in lo
-> it when it gave me the flex in the ankle.  I never thought I would be
-> to climb hills again.  With the old legs I had it was an effort but n
-> is very much less of an effort and I seem to glide up the suckers.  F
-> money it cost I would of spent 3 times as much to have the leg 3 year

Val says the very same thing.  The real pain in the butt over the whole
thing, though, is that over the past 6 years since she lost the leg, we
have had 5 prosthetists that have all said that the last leg was a piece
of junk, but they had the "perfect" leg for her.  And after talking to
her new prosthetist, we found out that each of them had made a leg that
was suited for a BK with limited knee flex.  EVERY ONE OF THEM!  They
had cast buckets that had her knee flexed about 5-15 degrees, causing
the tibia (I think...the big bone in front) to press against the front
of the leg.  Definite pain.  They also used some completely improper
styles of buckets (the ones that come up way high....she didn't need
that kind of support).  Anyway, this leg doesn' cover her kneecap like
the old ones did and when she straightens her leg....well, by gosh, it's
straight!

One more thing.  Her prosthetist LISTENS.  He tries to let her find the
solutions to the problem.  Something like this:

Val:  My knee hurts
Pros: What do you think is causing that?

That is such a simple thing to ask, but isn't is much more satisfying to
have someone ask you what you feel the problem is, rather than telling
you what it is?

Anyway, the prosthetist's name is Eddie Goshawk at Southern California
Orthotics and Prosthetics (can I say that on TV? <g>) just in case
anybody is in the San Diego area and needs some help.  Val says that he
is the best "leg mechanic" that she has EVER seen.

dd

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!202!337!Drew.Dunn
Internet: Drew.Dunn@f337.n202.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Re: HELLO
From: John.Hargrove@f68.n382.z1.fidonet.org (John Hargrove)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:382/68 - Diabetes Discussion, Austin TX


[This is from the Amputee Conference]

In a message to All <07-17-92 15:38> Daniel Santos wrote:

DS> I just logged onto this echo today and wanted to introduce myself.  I

Welcome to the echo. You'll find a real nice group here.  Since I been on I
 have gotten a lot of good info from this bunch.  My name is John Hargrove and
 I am a BK of the right leg.  Lost it due to tomany years of diabetes.  Doc
 found clots forming in my foot and about 4 inches below my knee.  Docs did
 everything they could to try to save the leg but by the time they decided it
 needed to go I was begging them to take it.  Been a BK for 3 years coming this
 Augs.

Am with an amputee group that has form and where fixing to go into our 3rd
year.  We have a combination of speakers and rap sessions.

John

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!382!68!John.Hargrove
Internet: John.Hargrove@f68.n382.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Re: Indolight(sp)
From: John.Hargrove@f68.n382.z1.fidonet.org (John Hargrove)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:382/68 - Diabetes Discussion, Austin TX


In a message to John Hargrove <07-18-92 09:26> Drew Dunn wrote:

DD> have had 5 prosthetists that have all said that the last leg was a
DD> piece
DD> of junk, but they had the "perfect" leg for her.  And after talking

Haven't had five but am working with my second now.  Same office as
the first, even see my first off an on.  The firsts gotten real
busy going places checking on things so they brought in this new
guy.  He's a bit better in my book.

The first one I work with put me in 4 legs.  They came up to my
knee but restirct my bend and the pain.  When time came for my new
leg the new guy walk in and took a look at the old leg and said
something on the order of...to fix it this time we need a new
leg....  Okay by me I replyed.  He sat down and explained the
endolite to me and showed me two he was working on for other
customers.  When I saw the flex in the ankle that sold me.  All in
all this new guy is real good I think.

DD> One more thing.  Her prosthetist LISTENS.  He tries to let her find
DD> the
DD> solutions to the problem.  Something like this:

Both of mine listens.  At times I think I can make a leg the way
they talk to me.  They listen, I spell my guts and they suggest.
It's a lot of fun working with 'em both.

John

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!382!68!John.Hargrove
Internet: John.Hargrove@f68.n382.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Competition calls....
From: Sheila.Fava@f24.n3602.z1.fidonet.org (Sheila Fava)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:3602/24 - ADAnet One (tm) Net, Pinson AL


[This is from the Abled Athlete Conference]

Hello, ALL.....

I will be away from my computer from July Eighteenth to August
twenty-sixth.  Why?  There is an important all-sports meet -- The
British Columbia Provincial Games For the Physically disABLED --
being held in Maple Ridge, British Columbia, Canada.  Since I also
compete in sprint swimming in the States, I figure the Northern
Neighbors can use a visit.  I've been competing in British Columbia
and Alberta for ten years and have made lots of friends.  When I
return, I will let you know how I survived the Greyhound Bus ride
there and give you a brief description of the Provincial Games.

Please don't go all wild and crazy (Steve Martin's saying) on me
while I'm away.  If I get the chance to use someone's computer, I
will call and give y'all Greets! from the British Columbia
Provincials.

                    ---Sheila

                    *** HOST(ess) ADA-Athlete Conference ***
===
 * QNet3 *

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!3602!24!Sheila.Fava
Internet: Sheila.Fava@f24.n3602.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Re: PAIN MEDS
From: Connie.Crum@f21.n3619.z1.fidonet.org (Connie Crum)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:3619/21 - Inner Sanctum, New Port Richey FL


[This is from the Chronic Pain Conference]

torodol works great as a pain med. i work in an outpatient facility
and use torodol routinely postoperatively. in 12 months time i have
not administered a narcotic of any kind. we also will use dalgan
along with the torodol. we get tremendous results and we have
exprienced no side effects.

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Internet: Connie.Crum@f21.n3619.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Conservative treatment
From: Linda.Cummings@f34.n375.z1.fidonet.org (Linda Cummings)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:375/34 - Batteries Included, Montgomery AL


[This is from the Chronic Pain Conference]

 > Well, that is one possible explanation, but there are others that
 > are equally possible if you understand the anatomy.  The L5-S1 and
 > S1-S2 nerves pass through the L4-L5 spinal canal before they reach
 > their respective levels.  It is certainly possible that a problem
 > at the higher L4-L5 area can affect any nerves at a lower level.

So, this could explain my excrutiating tailbone pain, huh?  Possibly?

 > I doubt this was intended to be upsetting, depressing, or what
 > ever other adjective you want to use to describe it.  The fact is
 > that additional weight appears to be associated with back pain
 > problems.

I'm sure you've found this to be true in your studies with chronic
pain, Arthur.  But, it sure is hard to have chronic pain and be on
any real beneficial exercise program except to keep limbs limber.
For me, I can't hardly stand to any type of real good exercise for
weight loss. In fact, I gained weight *after* the surgeries because
I can't exercise. :(

I bet sometimes you wished there were other doctors on here, huh?
[big wide-eyed grin]

Linda

--
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Internet: Linda.Cummings@f34.n375.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Stupid Me
From: Linda.Cummings@f34.n375.z1.fidonet.org (Linda Cummings)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:375/34 - Batteries Included, Montgomery AL


[This is from the Chronic Pain Conference]

Well, I thought I'd have the nerve to get in one of the wheelchairs
available at Walmart the next time I went shopping there, but I
didn't. And, boy, do I regret it!

"I'm only going to be in there just a little while," I thought to
myself.  Ha!  I *love* browsing around the stores.  I do tend to
just do a little more than I should.  Well, in this particular
case, I did a *lot* more than I should have.

I barely made it home, and when I got the shopping bags inside, I
absolutely collapsed.  I immediately popped two pain pills and a
Flexaril.  About an hour later, the pain was manageable, but not
gone. That was yesterday.

Today, I have that numbness feeling in my left leg, and the pain is
constant.

Why do we do this to ourselves?

I guess I care about what other people (even strangers) think.  I mean, I don't
 know how I would react if I saw someone come walking into a store and then roll
 themselves around in a wheelchair, pay for their purchases, and then walk out.
 Maybe because that's what I *should* be doing, I wouldn't think too much about
 it.

Maybe I'm fearful that someday I will be in a wheelchair and I don't want to get
 into one any sooner than I have to.  I don't know.  I've even thought about
 this...if I do start using one in the stores, will it hurt me?  What I mean by
 that is, will I tend to get lazy?  It's obvious that too much walking hurts me.
  I can't pace myself.  So, will using a wheelchair make me worse off than I
 already am?

If I find that using one does help, and I can shop in comfort will no ill
 effects, then I might consider having one for places that don't have one there
 that you can borrow.  What would I look for?

Just thinking ahead and trying to make my life more bearable.

Linda

--
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Internet: Linda.Cummings@f34.n375.z1.fidonet.org




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                                ******

                  End of Issue # 2822 of the Handicap Digest

                                ******
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