From: svilen@sofia.ks.uiuc.edu (Svilen Tzonev)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bulgaria,soc.culture.greece,soc.culture.yugoslavia
Subject: ANSWER II to Andronikos
Date: 9 Oct 92 01:29:45 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

Andronikos,

	open any serious non-greek newspaper/magazine. If there is a map  
of the region at the place of the former SR Macedonia you'll find the  
letters ... Macedonia. Enjoy it or not that's the way the world refers to  
this region. OF COURSE, there are other regions also referred as "some  
adjective or no adjective at all" Macedonia....
	From now on I'll use MaCedonia for <<former SR Macedonia>> and  
MaKedonia for <<greek province Makedonia>>. Hope you'll accept this as at  
least TERMINOLOGY.
	
	My remark on Milan Pavlovic's words:
	
> >
> >> My Greek friends!   I  don't want to see you get into the same
> >> trouble.  Don't let  the  Skopjans spread their propaganda all
> >> over the world.  You too must set up information centers which
> >> will disseminate  the truth about the happenings regarding the
> >> Skopjan Republic.  Don't let yourselves be pushed into the de-
> >> fensive corner, like Serbia has been pushed...
> >>                                                      Regards,
> >>                                                      Milan
> >>===============================================================
> >>               M A C E D O N I A  =  H E L L A S
> >>===============================================================
> >>

	was
	
> > BRAVO Mr. Pavlovic!
> > Maybe your next appeal will look like:
> > "Fellow orthodox greeks - it's high time to divide Macedonia!
>   ::::::::::::::::               ::::::::::   ::::::
> > MACEDONIA =  HELLAS + SOUTH SERBIA" ?
>   :::::::::  ::       ::
> > very curious, Svilen

	In what follows I'll fulfill your desire and explain you what I  
meant. But first let me notice that you not Milan answered me. Anyway.
	
	In his appeal Milan denies the existence of maCedonians, he uses  
"skopjans" instead. But Skopje is just a town - what is the rest of the  
country? Between 1918 and 1945 it was South Serbia. I just asked him if he  
wants it to be again...
	 You don't have to accept this analogy stemming from Milan's  
words, neither do I but it does exist: Serbia is pushed in the corner, so  
Greece may be, serbians fight, so greeks may have to... Bad analogy,  
right?
		
> There is another thing though that, I feel, I must remind you:
> Mr.Pavlovic has been very consistent over the  "Macedonia=Hellas"
> notion  for a long time now,  and  I have every reason to believe
> that he uses the term  referring to  MAKEDONIA  (which is clearly
> within the current Greek frontier).

	While denying existence of MaCedonia, is Milan inferring South  
Serbia, again? That is my question, Andro. Same way he chooses the meaning  
of 'MACEDONIA' I choose the standard one...

	To restate:
	MACEDONIA (REGION) = MACEDONIA + MAKEDONIA = SOUTH SERBIA + HELLAS  
?
	
	What do YOU think?
	
> You have been around for quite some time to understand that  YOUR
> proposition would be   u n a c c e p t a b l e  by the Greeks for
> a bunch of reasons out of which I will stretch two:
> --> Your sentence makes no sense in the  "Greek vocabulary" since
>     Macedonia is NOT..." Greece + (something else)."
>     So,  Mr.Pavlovic  who is a very eloquent speaker and wants to
>     pass himself across would never write something that his par-
>     ticular audience wouldn't understand...
>     Should Milan ever imagine to write what you (and other Bulga-
>     rians probably) propose,  his Greek friends  would infer that
>     the fellow netter wants to divide  Northern Greece between...
>     Greece and Serbia ! ! !   :-)

	OF COURSE nobody says this. You know very well HOW I and most of  
the world use the word Macedonia. Maybe you want me to refer to Greece as  
Hellas or Ellada or ... but since we write in English we should use the  
appropriate names accepted in this language. I may want to call 'blue  
tomato' an eggplant but it's still an eggplant.
	
>     Your sentence "friend",ALL that MAY succeed in, is to impress
>     a couple of other non-Balkan-nationalities,who may not be ve-
>     ry familiar with the matters in the neighborhood..and get the
>     w r o n g  idea (which I'll explain in a minute).
> --> YOUR proposition  (and not Milan's)  can very well be percei-
>     ved as highly  disingenuous "friend",  for it clearly implies
>     that Greece entertains military plans of "some" intervention;
>     and considered (in an indefinite point in the past)  an inva-
>     sion scenario! (Notice the words I underlined: "High time"...
>     "divide",  Why?  Was there a plan before Svilen? )

	OF COURSE Macedonia(region) was divided same way as Thrace was.  
You demonstrated knowledge of history (and impressed a lot of people), so  
let's don't talk nuts. 
	I don't believe Greece does intend to invade MaCedonia. BUT you  
know very well that it is NOT impossible that the present government of  
Serbia MAY ignite much more trouble in Kossovo -> MaCedonia. These are not  
only my speculations, Andronikos. Read, listen, watch.
 
> > "Fellow orthodox greeks - it's high time to divide Macedonia!
>   ::::::::::::::::               ::::::::::   ::::::
> > MACEDONIA =  HELLAS + SOUTH SERBIA" ?
>   :::::::::  ::       ::
> 
> If there is a positive response here please give us the name of a
> single Greek politician (from the party of your choice)  who ever
> suggested something like that...

	Page 64, the latest issue of TIME MAGAZINE: Greece's Defence Seems  
Just Silly sort of appeared on time ;-) You may want to read it.
	
> Please,in this effort,don't be confused by other Balkan nation(s)
> who had  no problem  whatsoever in siding with a particular Axis,
> say in the last 50 yrs, provided it (they) would receive portions
> of  its  two  neighbors'  territories  and  "share"  them  in the
> c o n t e x t   ( and region )  you  just  described!
>                                                         A.Romanos
	
	I will not answer to this part unless you insist very much.
I just try to be polite. Are you?
 
	WHY ALL this complications, Andro?
	I asked a question. Why didn't the guy answer me plainly: "NO"?  
Now I ask you since you seemingly like to answer instead of  
Milan.............. ;-)
	
	Svilen

P.S. Sorry for ANSWER I ;-)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bulgaria