HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pharvey@quack.sac.ca.us (Paul Harvey)
Subject: Re: the five stages
Organization: The Duck Pond public unix: +1 408 249 9630, log in as 'guest'.
	<1992Nov16.063517.20369@leela.cs.orst.edu>
Date: 17 Nov 1992 02:11:34 UTC

In article <1992Nov16.063517.20369@leela.cs.orst.edu> 
casspa@atlantis.CS.ORST.EDU (Paul Cass) writes:
>In article <fVixInB@quack.sac.ca.us> 
pharvey@quack.sac.ca.us (Paul Harvey) writes:
>>1. Anger
>>2. Denial
>>3. Bargaining
>>4. Depression
>>5. Acceptance
>>What do these stages mean?
>If these five stages are under discussion then (probabley) there is a
>terminal illness involved.  Cancer, Aids etc....  I believe the book
>was called "On Death and Dieing" but I'm not positive.

But, don't these stages apply to other things also? Say, for example,
breaking up or not being able to make the payments or failing a class or
getting fired and not being able to find a new job or ...
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: radzy@ICSI.Berkeley.EDU (T. O. Radzykewycz)
Subject: Re: Women and Men Witches
Organization: International Computer Science Institute, Berkeley, CA, U.S.A.
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 17:20:00 GMT

ag055@yfn.ysu.edu (Ward Chanley) writes:
> Here, I'll make statements you don't
> like; men are more hormonal about lots
> and lots of things.

Well, I don't like those statements.  Men and women are
"hormonal" about different things, but I wouldn't say
that either men or women are "more" hormonal in general.

Women are just "hormonal" about different things.  Or perhaps
even about the same things, but in different circumstances!

> Where did [men] learn [violent behavior]?
> I think it was genetically encoded; instinct.

I think that violent behavior is *learned*, not
instinct.  My belief is based on a few specific
cases, not on any scientific study (which, as we
all know, don't exist).  Some of the examples
I've had are things women have done, and others
are things men have done.  Both men and women
are violent.  Both men and women are gentle.

How about you, Ward.  On what do you base your
judgement that violent behavior is genetically
encoded?  Personal expience?  If it's your own
behavior, then you should also answer why it
isn't simply a self-serving cop-out.

If you add stories I've heard to the evidence
that violence is learned, then one good example
is Janis' father -- she said a while ago that
he was a kind, gentle man.

Bear Blessings!

			-- radzy
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: feathers@eskimo.com (Cheryl Owen)
Subject: Re: the US elections...
Summary: How are guns relevant?
Organization: <<< ESKIMO NORTH (206)-FOR-EVER >>>
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 20:03:17 GMT

  I've only been reading this newsgroup for a month or so, so maybe
I missed something important before that that would explain this, but
I'm puzzled about why these long messages about automatic guns and
various sorts of guns keep appearing in this newsgroup.  They appear to
be unconnected to anything else.  What do guns and debates about the
various kinds of automatic weapons have to do with paganism?
  If there's no answer to this then I'll assume that the gun nut
types are posting about guns indiscriminately wherever they will and
that no one else really minds, or perhaps even notices since they seem
to do it a *lot*.
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: markbr%radian@natinst.com (markbr)
Subject: Re: Women and Men Witches
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 22:34:33 GMT
Organization: n.o.y.b

In article <1992Nov22.181019.29863@news.ysu.edu> ag055@yfn.ysu.edu (Ward Chanley) writes:
>
>Re: Men and violence...
>
>I've said often enough that I believe
>there are essential differences in the
>nature of men and women; women don't
>Gaybash.  Men do.  Not all men are

Sorry. Phyllis Schafly, the jerk who was the Oreo leader (token woman) in
the fight against the ERA. 

>violent, but I do think that men may
>have a biological predisposition for
>the trait.
>
>--
From: GRS00039@CONRAD.APPSTATE.EDU (*John Nicholas Peragine)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: greetings
Date: 15 Nov 92 23:06:17 GMT
Organization: APPALACHIAN STATE UNIVERSITY
NNTP-Posting-Host: alf.appstate.edu
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.24

Greetings,
	Hello boys and girls, and how are things in the pagan world?  I'm new
to this concept of computers, but not to my religion.  I don't really follow
the same beliefs as those that I have read from the network, but it is my
path. What I live and practice is as old as the land itself, and I will bring
my own children up in the same; if that is what they choose.  I am not dogmatic
in anything of religions, because everyone walks their own path in this life.
(Basically, no one should dictate to another, what is truth, and what is not;
because only that person knows what is the best for themselves.)  I do hope to
hear from the world around, until then, blessed be in spirit.
						Ivy Bear
From: lazarus@interceptor.ksu.ksu.edu (Bart -Laz- Smith)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Description of the Fetal Remains from an Abortion
Date: 18 Nov 1992 23:31:35 -0600
Organization: Kansas State University
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: interceptor.ksu.ksu.edu


Hey, this could also have been cross-posted to Alt.Tasteless and 
Alt.I'm.so.fucking.bold.to.post.this.that.I.won't.even.include.my.name.

Anyone else here unimpressed?

--
Bart -Laz- Smith
Kansas State University
'Cats - Hell, I can't remember the score.  They just lost to Mizzou.  *sigh*
"I've got the motive which is money, and I've got the body which is DEAD."
	-- In the Heat of the Night
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: hart0037@student.tc.umn.edu ()
Subject: Re: the US elections...
Organization: University of Minnesota
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 03:00:38 GMT

In article <1235@abb-sc.abb-sc.COM> ksm@abb-sc.abb-sc.com (Ashley) writes:
>
>In article <1992Nov14.003413.8356@henson.cc.wwu.edu>, n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio) writes...
>
>>>	Now I own a handgun. I look down at the piece of cold metal and 
>>>rubber resting uncomfortably in my hand and I feel sick. This thing was 
>>>made for the express purpose of killing human beings. I don't like it. 
>
>>	It's all in your head.  Your grandpa's hunting rifles are
>>even more deadly.
>> 
>>JD	
>
>	I know that the old rifles can blow bigger holes in people and kill 
>more people over a greater distance. But they wheren't designed specificly for 
>the purpose of killing *people*. Grandpa used them to kill deer and bears.
>  [etc] 
>[Handguns] are for crimes or defense, in either one they are intended for
>use on human beings. That is what makes me uncomfortable with it.
>
>
>			- Ashley
>
  I agree with Ashley's point.  I don't own a handgun, but my mom suggested I
buy one for self-defense and the thought made me ill.  If this world
is so violent that my only means of staying alive is to kill someone else,
then I prefer to die.  
  This is *not* to say that I think less of anyone who owns a gun for
self-defense---it's just that I personally cannot stomach the implications.
If I killed someone, I think I would be as traumatized as I would be if I
were held at gunpoint and raped or robbed without the use of a gun to
defend myself.  On the other hand, I am fortunate in having no experience
with being attacked in this way...I recognize that I might change my mind if
this were to occur to me or in my immediate neighborhood.
   I also add the disclaimer that I am quite willing to kick, punch,
scream, bite, etc to get away from someone....I'm not a sheep waiting for
slaughter!
   --Amy
From: bn566@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ward Chanley)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Women and Men Witches
Date: 17 Nov 1992 10:00:34 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Re: How does moving from one addiction
(patriarchy) to another (matriarchy)
make things better...

Again, that assumes that a matriarchal
culture would be a "mirror image" of 
the patriarchal one.  I don't think
that one can so automatically make 
that assumption.

Again, I have a belief that women 
have essentially different values than
men; the "why" here is irrelevant.  It
may well be that patriarchal condition-
ing is entirely "in the head" and not
"in the genes" at all.  If so, by
changing the focus of the culture from
the center of power-over expressed by
patriarchy to the center of power-from-
within expressed by matriarchy, the 
culture would produce men with a matri-
archal conciousness and a more equal
society as a whole would be created.

But the essential thing is to change
that focus itself before we destroy
ourselves and our planet.

-- 
You know life is an impossible scheme,
And love, an imperceptible dream...
     --- Pet Shop Boys
bn566@cleveland.freenet.edu (Ward Chanley)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: markbr%radian@natinst.com (markbr)
Subject: Re: That GUN flame --
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 18:29:24 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: n.o.y.b

In article <57027@olivea.atc.olivetti.com> gnome@flash.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Gary) writes:
>I've always found it funny that the people who are the least
>trusting in the government and it's actions also happen to
>be the most rabidly into gun control (banning.)
>
>On one hand, they'll whine about the millions of witches
>killed in times past, they'll be outraged about institutionalized
>abuse and killings in other supposedly civilised countries,
>but they will always insist that things like that can't happen
>here because a piece of paper says it can't.
>
>And Pat Robertson was running for president...
>
>Gary
>
I see, and if he had won, would he have been against gun control? Or were
you implying that if he had won, you would have gone against the popular
vote and assasinated him (you being a better shot than us left-wingers 
(y'all must be - liberals get killed, conservatives only get wounded, if
that))?

	mark
From: rks@cscns.com (Island's Child)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Description of the Fetal Remains from an Abortion
Date: 19 Nov 92 04:43:37 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Community_News_Service
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

dsh@eceyv.ncsu.edu () writes:
:   "It was easy to shrug off an aborted pregnancy as nothing more than
:    a sack of blood and globs of tissue--as many pro-choice activists
:    did--if one never saw fetal remains, or products of conception (POC),
:    as they were known in medical circles.  But the nurses, medical

(remainder of sensationalist drivel deleted)

This crap reminds me of the horror movies they used to show in high 
school to convince us that we must drive safely.

Listen, you andskotans, djolfulsins, marg-heilaskadadur faviti, if
you can't make your argument with logic and reason, how about just
shutting the hell up!

In a free society, we are not going to like the choices that everyone
makes. Nevertheless, the only way to assure that you are free to *not*
have an abortion is to make sure that we are likewise free to *have*
an abortion. The only way that *you* will be free to have *your* beliefs
is to make sure that *I* am free to have my *beliefs*. Can you grasp
that concept without too much trouble? 

Why don't you take this crap to talk.pro-life.we.wanna.run.your.life

Exucuse the Icelandic cursing. It is too disgusting to put in English.


wassail..


//rks
From: pngai@adobe.com (Phil Ngai)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: the US elections...
Date: 18 Nov 92 19:49:13 GMT
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated

In article <1992Nov16.030038.24360@news2.cis.umn.edu> hart0037@student.tc.umn.edu writes:
>  I agree with Ashley's point.  I don't own a handgun, but my mom suggested I
>buy one for self-defense and the thought made me ill.  If this world
>is so violent that my only means of staying alive is to kill someone else,
>then I prefer to die.  

What if you have a family and your only means of protecting them is to
kill someone else. Would you let your family die?

-- 
My opinions are my own.
From: liam@alehaus%brewich.hou.tx.us (liam)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Scummy behavior of pagan males
Date: 18 Nov 92 18:33:53 GMT
Organization: The Alehaus, a Brewer's Witch affiliate, alehausLOCALrewich.hou.tx.us

kumagic@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (Stephen R. Figgins) writes:

                Post deleted for bandwidth

        I have ben lurking on this one from the beginning and have 
been holding back on this topic....but not anymore.

        First Mr. Figgins (Judging by the name I see in your address I 
assume you are male, iff not my apologies), you have made the 
generalization(sp?) that men, by virtue of their being born male and 
raised in a patriarchal(sp?) society are scum.  Then you went on to say 
that men involved in matrifocal religions (ie. Wicca) are not sincere in 
their beliefs and are "only in it to meet women and get laid". You now 
are citing examples of just how scummy men are in this society 
(pagan community to be specific).  
        I believe that I, based on your "evidence" may safely assume that 
what you are trying to say is that if one by chance of birth has a penis 
and testes, they are doomed to be incicere, abusive, and otherwise 
generaly scummy.  This, my dear sir, does not ring true due to the fact 
that, while society does effect the behavior of the individuals therin,
it is still the individual that must claim sole resonsibillity(sp?) for 
hir actions and not society in general.  In short, where societal factors 
do play a part in dictating one's behavior, it is no more than a pathetic 
excuse to blame society as a whole for the actions of a few of its 
members. 

You have been presenting the same arguement in v
beginning of this thread. While you have indeed conceded a feww points, 
you have inenevitably come back to your original point (ie. men are 
scum).  For this I must applaud you on your reasoning being a prime 
example of the circular logic that is so prevalent in the more 
fundamentalistic areas of christianity. I will also add that you have 
proven that you are rooted to this belief of yours and that this post 
will probably have no more effect on your reasoning than a single sponge 
has of absorbing all of the water in the universe at one attempt. In 
short, I think that it is time to smile and back away slowly, folks.
                               Blessed Be(you seem to need all the help 
you can get),
                                        Liam

------------------
liam@alehaus%brewich.hou.tx.us
Origin: The Alehaus -- Houston, TX -- 
     If you don't vote....DON'T BITCH
                                -unknown
Xref: sparky alt.pagan:12992 ba.music:1996 rec.music.folk:7918 ba.motorcycles:887 rec.org.sca:15900 soc.culture.celtic:7379
From: leighann@rocky.sybase.com (Leigh Ann Hussey)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,ba.music,rec.music.folk,ba.motorcycles,rec.org.sca,soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Annwn plays Freight 11/22
Date: 16 Nov 92 18:44:02 GMT
Distribution: ba
Organization: Sybase, Inc., Emeryville, CA

This is an invitation to come check out Annwn, a Celtic trad/rock band, at
Berkeley's premier folk club, the Freight and Salvage.

When: Sunday, 22 Nov, 8pm
Where: 1111 Addison St., Berkeley
How much: $7adv/$8door.  You can get adv tix through BASS (wow! heheheheh)

We'll be doing some of the material from our recent "Hero's Journey"
concept concert, plus traditional favorites and our usual mix of humor,
myth, and just plain eccentric.

Hope to see you there!

Cheers,
	- Leigh Ann

----------------
Leigh Ann Hussey   
leighann@sybase.com           {sun,lll-tis,pyramid,pacbell}!sybase!leighann
"They're mine!  All mine!  And what's mine is mine!" - Daffy Duck
(CoG, DoD/AMA, ORL/AoA, and other mysterious TLAs...)
From: popec@freeside.com (PopeC)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: the US elections...
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 21:10:58 CST
Organization: Rivendell BBS / Hou, TX. / +1 713 941 2236

marty@world.std.com (Marty M HaleEvans) writes:

> 
> What do some of you think of the hand-held stun weapons that are coming onto
> the market? These are relatively inexpensive (~$100), easy to use, easy to
> carry, legal, and produce no lasting harm. Just enough neural disruption to
> allow one to escape. There was some writing about them in the newest _MONDO
> 2000_. My husband and I have been talking about them as a non-violent option
> to the self-defense problem. The main problem is that you do have to touch 
> the assailant with the weapon, so you have to let him/her get close. Also, 
> like any weapon, it can be taken away and used on you. However, that's a 
> possibility with any weapon, and I'd rather have a stunner go off accidentall
> in struggle or even used on me than a gun or knife.
> 
> Any thoughts?
> 
> Marty
> 
> 
> =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
> "Seems like there ought to be a way we could look each other in the eye
> To see we're all in this together, and put all thoughts of victory aside.
> Seems like there ought to be a way we could turn this fear into trust;
> No matter what you say, there has to be a way --
> Every living thing is counting on us."      
> 
> Marty Hale-Evans                                 M   @   *   O   %   8   U
> 89 Mass. Ave., Ste. 199, Boston, MA 02115       \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/
> 
> 


The problem is as you mention, you have to physically come into contact 
with someone, to use it.  I know a number of women around here that swer 
by Halt.  Which is a spray can of hot pepper oil available from any 
bicycle shop or similar sporting goods shop.  $3.99 a can. It can spray 6 
to 8 feet.  It works, also on dogs, (it's main purpose in life actually).
It is nondeadly, and it is a good threat.  Nobody would want to grab at 
somebody waving a can of this stuff around.  
  My sisters keep a can of this stuff in their cars where they can reach 
it.  It does help to make you feel a little safer knowing you have it at 
hand like that.  When in doubt should they have to get out of the car, 
they get out with this stuff in hand, of at least in their purse.

Pope Charles   Subgenius Pope Of Houston

**********************************************************************
* Pope Charles - Subgenius pope Of Houston & The Golden Triangle Area*
*       Laughing at everything in the Universe, including the        *
*       concept of laughing at everything in the Universe.           *
*               rivdell.sccsi.com    Houston, Texas                  *
**********************************************************************
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: nadja@jetsun.weitek.COM (Nadja Adolf)
Subject: Re: the US elections...
Organization: WEITEK Corporation, Sunnyvale CA
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 19:32:32 GMT

In article <BxxIuu.K48@access.digex.com> corun@access.digex.com (Corun MacAnndra) writes:
>In article <Bxvnuz.IG1@world.std.com> marty@world.std.com (Marty M HaleEvans) writes:
>>
>>What do some of you think of the hand-held stun weapons that are coming onto
>>the market? These are relatively inexpensive (~$100), easy to use, easy to
>>carry, legal, and produce no lasting harm. Just enough neural disruption to
>>allow one to escape. There was some writing about them in the newest _MONDO
>>2000_. My husband and I have been talking about them as a non-violent option
>>to the self-defense problem. 
>>Any thoughts?
>>Marty

>As for the relative merits of it vs. a handgun, I've never heard of any
>incidents where someone's heart couldn't take the shock and the person died,
>but we are talking about electricity here. Maybe someone else knows more
>about these things.

It could be a problem if someone had a pacemaker. A bigger problem is that
it appears that assailants are likely to just keep coming. It doesn't work
unless you get a good contact, and this can be harder to do than it is
in theory. In some cases, it just makes them more hostile if they get a 
buzz from it. And they are of no use in a multiple attacker situation; and
multiple attacker situations are becoming more and more common as criminals
discover that working in groups has more advantages in a society where people
are increasingly less likely to have effective means of resistance.



-- 
The Earth Pig Bourne....

nadja@node.com (prefered email address)
nadja@weitek.com
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,talk.religion.misc
From: boylan@sltg04.ljo.dec.com (Steve Boylan)
Subject: Re: Tolerance of Others  (Was: Re: raising child)
Reply-To: boylan@ljohub.enet.dec.com (Steve Boylan)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 19:33:43 GMT


{I've taken the liberty of removing soc.singles from the cross-postings;
I think the other news groups apply.)

In article <1992Nov18.214535.14730@tc.fluke.COM>, emery@tc.fluke.COM
(John Emery) writes:

> In article <1992Nov16.061631.2706@netcom.com> rohwerwd@netcom.com (W. David \
> Rohwer) writes:
> >
> >     Are you saying the religious people are not bigots by chance?  If
> >you are, then you are wrong.  Just look at the Christians and their
> >non-tolerance of homosexuals, non-Christian actions and other religions.
> >I do not see any problem with mocking a belief system and the people with
> >that belief system that does not tolerate other's actions or belief systems.
> >Therefore, I do not see any problem with mocking Christians or Christianity.
> >

[include .sig deleted]

> The only problem is that there is always some group that a person is
> intolerant of.  That means everyone is a bigot.  For instance, are
> you tolerant of neo-Nazi behavior?  Are you tolerant of serial killers?
> These are just a few examples.  By mocking Christians, that is evidence 
> that you are intolerant of this belief system and by your own words
> you convict yourself by defining a bigot as anyone "that does not tolerate 
> other's actions or belief systems."  In your case, Christianity.


Excuse me, John, but how did you conclude from David's comments that he
doesn't tolerate Christians?  While he says he's comfortable with
mockery of Christians for their intolerance, he doesn't say anywhere that
he would not tolerate their beliefs.

Something else John said got me to thinking . . . but I think it ought
to start a new thread.  So watch this space for the subject "Absolute
Right and Wrong".

				- - Steve

				boylan@ljohub.enet.dec.com
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: markbr%radian@natinst.com (markbr)
Subject: Re: not the US elections..., but guns
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 18:21:14 GMT
Organization: n.o.y.b

In article <1992Nov19.194439.24356@jetsun.weitek.COM> nadja@jetsun.weitek.COM (Nadja Adolf) writes:
>>
>>>In article <1992Nov16.030038.24360@news2.cis.umn.edu>
>>hart0037@student.tc.umn.edu writes: 
>>
>>  As for the second issue, I still don't want to own a gun.  It's too
>>quick and too easy to kill with a gun.  I've fired one before, and even
>>though I was targeting popcans, I didn't feel good about it.  I don't want
>>that kind of instantaneous life-and-death power in my hands!  Once you've
>>pulled the trigger, there is no turning back, and I'd feel unsafe with
>>that kind of power in my house.
>
>Do you drive a car? I've heard folks make remarks similar to this after
>having accidents with one.
>
I CAN'T STAND IT ANY MORE! It's neither relevant to alt.pagan, nor is it
relevant to the "theoretical" thread, nor is it either rational argument
("an argument is a series of statements intended to prove a proposition,
it's not just simple nay-saying" Monty Python definition). so let's just
blow it all off.

	The *Last* Mr. Bill Episode, copyright mark roth/whitworth, 1992

	"Hi there, Mr. Bill!"
	"Umm, hi there, Mr. Hands"
	"Hey, Mr. Bill, why don't you play with this .357 Magnum?"
	"No, Mr. Hands, I'd rather not..."
	"C'mon, Mr. Bill, here..."
	*BANG!*
	"Mr. Hands? Mr. Hands? Hey, there, boys and girls! Tune in
	   next week, and se Sluggo get his!"

	mark

Newsgroups: alt.pagan