HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: lazarus@wixer.cactus.org (Michael Lax)
Subject: Re: FAX PRESIDENT CLINTON (*AND* GENERAL COLIN POWELL)
Organization: Real/Time Communications
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1993 00:22:50 GMT

Ron Buckmire (buckmr@rpi.edu) wrote:
: On Tuesday, January 26 1993, dorsieh@agora.rain.com (Dorsie Hathaway) wrote:
: 
: > 
: > I heard on ABC news this morning that the Congress had gotten over
: > 800 faxes AGAINST lifting the ban and only 21 in support.  It's time
: > to get off our hands, people.
: > 
: Exactly! This is a VERY important test of political power between Clinton and
: the Right Wing. If he backs down on this we'll have difficulty getting anything
: substantial later on. The NGLTF and HRCF have started fax/phone campaigns to
: combat Sen Jesse Helms (R-NC) and Sen Dan Coats (R-IN) mobilisation of the
: Christian Coalition, etc.
: 
: Bill Clinton
: President of the United States
: 1600 Pennsylvania Ave, NW
: Washington, DC 20500
: (202) 456-1414
: (202) 456-2883 [fax]
: 
: Also, phone/fax General Colin Powell at:
: 
: Gen. Colin L. Powell
: Chairman
: Joint Chiefs of Staff
: The Pentagon
: Washington, DC  20301-5000
: 
: vox: 703-697-9121.   
: fax: 703-697-8758.   

Anyone got Helmes and Coates (and anyone else that seems appropriate :-)
fax number?  It would be _such_ a shame if so many queers were telling
this folks what-for that the Pat Robertson's flunkies couldn't get through...:
From: black@sybase.com (Chris Black)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Clinton may not issue Executive Order
Date: 19 Jan 93 01:33:55 GMT
Organization: Sybase, Inc.

In article <15469.2b556b5d@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu> chloupek@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu writes:

[Clinton may direct the Sec'y of Defense to reverse the military ban rather
than reversing it himself via an executive order.]
>The question is this, with the military issue is the symbolism more important
>than the substance?  Is it important that the miliary ban be ended in *any* way
>possible or should GLB folk push for a public condemnation of the current
>policy by President-to-be Clinton?

This is not a question of symbolism vs. substance, at least where gay rights
is concerned.  The question is not whether Clinton sends a message that
discrimination is wrong;  he sends that message either way, simply by
reversing the ban.  The question is whether or not he appears to be pushing the
military around -- which would be politically expensive for him at this point
in time.  If doing it in a roundabout way lets him conserve his political 
capital for other battles, I say more power to him.

And I really don't think we should be considering putting pressure on Clinton
when he's doing the right thing, just not in the way we might prefer.  Let's
save it for when he's doing the wrong thing.

-- Chris
black@sybase.com
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance)
Subject: Re: safe sex question
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 15:47:07 GMT

bcapps@agora.rain.com (Brent Capps) writes:

>thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance) writes:

>>John, who thinks it'd be nice to append a 'JUST KIDDING!' to this
>>thread, just in case Our Brent is still feeling sensitive about the
>>subject. 

>[carefully feeling subject]  it still *seems* sensitive enough...
>[whacking subject with leather glove]  oo yeah it's plenty sensitive.  

!!!

>>Well, actually, I'm not kidding all *that* much, but it's
>>not objectification, I swear, or at least not in a bad way. I'll
>>respect you in the morning - now show me what you got, baby...

>But would you disrespect me in a bad way the night before, John?

I'd make you beg first.

--
thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu * John Dorrance * Disco Diva y Flamenco Chico

	  If I wait for the rain to kiss me and undress me
		Will I look a fool - wet and a mess?
From: dauber@tattoo.mti.sgi.com (Jeff Dauber)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Are Gay Men Richer, Really?
Date: 26 Jan 93 23:57:23 GMT
Reply-To: dauber@tattoo.mti.sgi.com (Jeff Dauber)
Organization: sgi
NNTP-Posting-Host: tattoo.mti.sgi.com

In article <1993Jan26.200906.23519@spdcc.com>, dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
|> In article <77557@apple.apple.COM> richard@Apple.COM (a flying squirrel) writes:
|> >Clay Bond taught me, albeit indirectly, that sometimes it pays to read
|> >past what appears, on the surface, to be hateful and vulgar.
|> 
|> Clay Bond was never vulgar, or stupid, for that matter.


I think that you are beatifying Clay.  I can think of a number of times
where he was hostile without reason/thought.

|> >Several
|> >years ago I would have reacted very differently to Matthew's contributions.
|> >He is not for everyone; but then, who _is_ on this forum?  There are gems
|> >to be found amongst all that hard, black coal.
|> 
|> With Melmon, what you see is what you get, mostly.  And that's spite
|> without much intelligence or wit to make him worth reading.  Believe me,
|> you're not doing him any favor by comparing him to Clay Bond.


I don't know, I get the exact same enjoyment out of reading Matthew's 
postings as I did by reading Clay's.  He gets a number of people here
worked up while laughing at them.  For that, I give him a lot of credit.
This group has needed to be shaken up for a while.


|> >Strong opinions?  Sure.  Do I agree with everything he says?  No.  But
|> >hardly reasons to kill-file him.  And he really _is_ funny at times.  
|> 
|> Be sure to point those times out.


Uh-oh... George Madison syndrome strikes again.  I find him funny.  
Our squirrel-y friend seems to find him funny as well... I think his
stirring things up is hilarious.

|> 
|> >My only regret is that he seems to have difficulties with people I feel
|> >genuine friendship towards.  But it is no different in my "real" (non-email)
|> >life; there are people I simply do not mix together in social situations.
|> >So?
|> 
|> Yeah, well, be sure to keep this in mind if you're having an event
|> the next time.  I can't imagine anyone being particularly interested
|> in actually meeting Melmon unless he had a personality transplant first.

Fuck you Steve.  I have met him.  In fact, I searched him out.

FWA
From: LASAGA@corral.uwyo.edu (LASAGA)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Read this if you are straight!
Date: 25 Jan 93 09:04:19 GMT
Article-I.D.: mrgate.3404021425011993/A02917/POSSE/1171CB802600*
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu



In article <1993Jan21.163402.9699@galileo.physics.arizona.edu> 
krueger@galileo.physics.arizona.edu (Ted Krueger) writes:
>I just had an idea!  Let's all lobby to get gays recognized as a 
>bonified minority with special rights.  Then, after the laws  get passed, 
>write open letters to our bosses stating that we are coming out of 
>the closet.  Afterward, if we get fired or layed-off for any reason, 
>we can just claim homophobia and discrimination.  We will keep our 
>jobs for life!
>

Excuse me?  And women and blacks and the disabled and catholics and
jews all keep their jobs for life?!

If you are fired and yet you had been performing your job well, and 
that fact can be established, then you should be justly compensated, 
no matter what the boss' reason (even if you _claimed_ to be gay and your
boss believed you).  Unfortunately, in Colorado, there is currently 
an amendment that would make any claim of discrimination by gays
_unaddressable_ by the courts (by definition), even if they had
been performing their job well.  

-maria
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Pete Williams on Larry King (and vice versa)
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 18:39:29 GMT

In article <1993Jan20.072223.13498@mic.ucla.edu>
cjones@physci.ucla.edu (Chad Jones) writes:

>And did you notice that little smirk when a male caller told him (Pete
>Williams) he was "quite handsome"?

And did you notice how that caller got cut off in mid-sentence,
I suppose before he could get to any embarrassing questions?
Made me think Larry King was, well, a nervous nelly.

-- 
[Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin]
[Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson]
[Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888]
[---------> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <---------]
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@convex.COM>
Subject: Re: motssketeer's at USENIX?
Originator: tchrist@pixel.convex.com
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 13:49:23 GMT
Reply-To: tchrist@convex.COM (Tom Christiansen)
Organization: Convex Computer Corporation, Colorado Springs, CO
Keywords: motss, social interaction, whatever
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

From the keyboard of brsmith@duncan.cs.umn.edu (Brian R. Smith):
:Are there any (or would you like there to be any) public motss gatherings
:(besides the GBLIC BOF) at the Winter USENIX?

There will surely be innumerable motss micrbofs.  "Whenever two of
us are gathered together..."  Wait, wrong context.  Maybe.  Anyway,
while I'm sure someone will post something on the message board about
a dinner, these things ussually happen spontaneously several times a day,
and pprobably night as well.

The problem for newbies is simply finding one another.  There's a
solution to that, as well.  Just make sure you bring a pink pen.  
Look for the people who've etched inverted pink triangles on their 
badges.  It's something of a running tradition.

See ya there -- I gotta go catch the plane.

--tom
-- 
    Tom Christiansen      tchrist@convex.com      convex!tchrist
The typewriting machine, when played with expression, is no more
annoying than the piano when played by a sister or near relation.
                -- Oscar Wilde
From: byma@clouseau.cog.Brown.EDU (Gary F. Byma)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: what i did over xmas vacation, etc.\
Date: 21 Jan 93 17:39:05
Organization: Brown University
Reply-To: Gary_Byma@Brown.EDU
NNTP-Posting-Host: clouseau.cog.brown.edu
In-reply-to: ailsa@wonky.UUCP's message of 20 Jan 93 02:09:09 GMT

In article <43-JNEWS-2.1@wonky.UUCP> ailsa@wonky.UUCP (Ailsa N.T. Murphy) writes:


	it does get to be a drag.  i'm still terribly, terribly Queer, trust me,
	darlings.  it's really awful feeling like a Traitor To The Cause because
	of who i lust.  but BOY am i conscious of straight privelege since he &
	i got together!  i need a "How DARE you assume I'm straight!" button in
	the WORST way...  *sigh*

	and, of course, i don't want to rejected by all the other dykes...

																	-ailsa


Like Brent in an earlier reply to this thread, I am a 6. I can't even
imagine being any sixer. I have, however, several women friends whom
I love deeply and I wondered what it would be like if I were ever to
meet a woman to whom I was also sexually attracted. Even though it
seems HIGHLY unlikely to me, this whole sexual attraction equation
is filled with so many ill-understood variables that who knows. 

As to the feelings of being a traitor to the cause, while I can
empathize how you might feel this way, you really are not. The ONLY
way you could betray the cause would be to turn around and denounce
your queer brothers and sisters (in my view). Being honest about
your sexuality, whatever that may be, is what we're all about. 

And hey, the straight privilege thing. I feel it even when I'm with
my women friends and I realize that people just ASSUME you're straight
if you're with MOTOS. Interestingly, this tacit assumption has begun
to piss me off of late. Maybe the button thing is the way to go.

You're still 'family', Ailsa,

Gary   	
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: Finally!!!
Organization: Elitist Usenet Administrators, Stuff and Nonsense Division
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 00:08:22 GMT

In article <53-JNEWS-2.1@wonky.UUCP> ailsa@wonky.UUCP (Ailsa N.T. Murphy) writes:

>well, my first political memory is of nixon resigning.

Actually, that would be close to mine, too.  I lied if I said that
Carter's election was the first.  I honestly believe that the first
words I learned (well, was taught, anyway) were "Nixon is a crook,"
which I dutifully recited at home whenever hearing Nixon's name, to
the delight of my mother's radical leftist friends.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / 
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /               Rocks say goodbye.
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /
From: rhayden@oracle.com (Ronald Hayden)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Sexual harassment from queers
Date: 25 Jan 93 23:58:29 GMT
Organization: Oracle Corporation, Belmont, Ca.
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <1993Jan24.194324.1@hamp.hampshire.edu> hjanules@hamp.hampshire.edu writes:

	   I have a question for those in the soc.motss world: Have any of you
   ever experienced sexual harassment from another queer.  I have a number of
   times, and my girlfriend is currently dealing with a similar issue with one of
   her PROFESSORS.  Why does no one talk about this?  I don't think she and I are
   the only ones victim to this. What do you think?

I have experienced general harassment (not really sexual) from a gay
man once, and sexual harassment from a gay man once.

Never experienced it from a straight, but being a white male, I
suppose that's the least likely circumstance for me.
--

  - Ronald Hayden

    ----------------------------------------------------------------
   | Documentation Manager, Oracle Toolkit Group                    |
   | Co-chair of Oracle Lambda, Oracle's Gay/Lesbian/Bisexual group |
   | Writer, magician, and various other things                     |
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: milr@quads.uchicago.edu (mark ryan miller)
Subject: Re: gay phone company
Reply-To: milr@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 03:17:54 GMT

In article <1k5cm7INN5av@plts.uucp> tal@plts.uucp (Tom Limoncelli) writes:
>
>Personally, I put my money into the phone company that has done the
>most for building a gay/les/bi-postive working environment for their
>employees.  AT&T.
>

Well, I'd rather put my money into a company that's gay OWNED
rather than gay friendly.  Plus the phone company (don't know
name) will donate 2% of the cost of your phone calls to a gay/lesbian/bi
charity OF YOUR CHOICE.  This is a great deal.  I called today to
order a phone card and will have them as my new long distance company
when I move in March.

--Mark
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: larry@bradley.bradley.edu (L. D. Stratton)
Subject: Re: Clinton Gets Earful at Open House
Organization: Bradley University
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 21:41:06 GMT

In <1993Jan22.200150.16444@netcom.com> solovay@netcom.com (Andrew Solovay) writes:

>In article <1993Jan22.163731.15843@PacBell.COM> rjwill6@pbsdts.sdcrc.pacbell.com (Rod Williams) writes:
>>
>>people who showed up at the White House yesterday to greet
>>the Clintons and Gores..
>>
>>    when I received my call," said Chris Henry, who like
>>    most of the visitors sent postcards to Washington and
>>    were notified last week that they would get tickets to
>>    meet Mr. Clinton.  "And I wanted to call my parents.
>>    But they aren't talking to me for the last 11 years
>>    because I'm a lesbian.  I hope your Administration
>>    will change that."
>I'm missing something. Does she expect Clinton to call her parents and
>talk to them? Maybe invite her parents to a party without telling them
>that Ms. Henry would be coming as well, and force a confrontation? If
>not, how does she expect a different president to change her parents's
>minds?
   This is sarcasm, right?  You WERE trying to be funny. Right?
   Because, if you weren't............  I'll refrain.
From: mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Stonewall in perspective (was: Year of the
Date: 21 Jan 93 17:06:21 GMT
Followup-To: soc.motss
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.

In article <C17oFH.35x@hpuerca.atl.hp.com>, mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Mike
Reaser) wrote:

> But haven't you noticed?  Those nearing complete exhaustion tend to
> babble the most, since their talking keeps them awake and in denial
> of their total fatigue.

And I called you witless.  How wrong I was.

*X*
(pudless, perhaps, but certainly not witless.  No, not that.)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: MOTSS-Oriented Music, Part II
Organization: Elitist Usenet Administrators, Stuff and Nonsense Division
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 08:26:40 GMT

In article <65-JNEWS-2.1@wonky.UUCP> ailsa@wonky.UUCP (Ailsa N.T. Murphy) writes:

>...  and the refrain from that indigo girls song i mentioned in my
>last post on this topic starts:
>
>juliet, when we made love you used to cry...
>
>sounds dykey to ME!  *grin*

Is it the beginning of "Romeo + Juliet," by Dire Straits?  If so, it
might only be dykey in context.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / 
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /               Rocks say goodbye.
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) / 
Newsgroups: soc.motss,pnw.motss
From: taurus@agora.rain.com (Scott Burch)
Subject: Gay's in the Presidents Parade???
Summary: Gay's in the Presidents Parade????
Organization: Open Communications Forum
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 16:05:35 GMT


    Did I hear wrong or wasn't there supposed to be a gay/lesbian marching
    band in president Clinton's parade.  I must have missed it on C-SPAN.

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Scott Burch                            "Homophobia is a sickness"
taurus@agora.rain.com
Portland, OR
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mchaffee@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Real Life?!?! HA!!)
Subject: Re: Challenge: Documentation of Nonpromiscuity
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 22:57:21 GMT

Arthur_T_Hu@cup.portal.com writes:

>On Asian gays, I never said Asian gays get laid less. I said Asians get less
>gay sex, which really means there are fewer Asian gays. Most surveys I've see
>show Asian gays have the same HIV+ rate as other gays. Given the lower rate
>of AIDS, that can only mean fewer gays in the Asian population.

Really?  That's assuming that HIV+ Asians are all (or at least mostly) gay.
What a wonderful message for Asian straights!

And I think instead of saying less gays, you should say less sexually active
gays.  This is moot as your point is invalid given your evidence, but if it
turns out that there are less Asians having gay sex, chances are it's a
societal thing (You know, religion, taboos, that sort of thing) rather than
biological as you seem to imply.

>Hey, if promiscuity isn't bad, why bother denying it? Can't have it both ways
>Either it's good, and you should have lots of it, or it's bad and there's
>a limit to how much you should have.

No, see, promiscuity is neither good nor bad.  If one person chooses to be
promiscuous, he is no better or worse than if he were monogamous or celibate.
We are not challenging your promiscuity argument from a moral standpoint,
but rather due to the fact that you make an erroneous statement.

Claiming that denial of an activity is necessarily a statement of disapproval
of that activity is pure idiocy.  Even you should see that.  An example: 
"No, I don't knit."  Is this a moral disapproval of knitting?

I'll repeat what a lot of people have said:  I think you need a course or four
in statistics before you start "interpreting" them.  As of now, your con-
clusions have no value outside of entertainment.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael T. Chaffee       | mchaffee@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu  |  ______    
"It has been said - mostly by illiterates and conserv-|  \    /   HATE
atives - that the belief in God is at the base of the |   \  /  is not a
American system, and that the United States is a prod-|    \/  FAMILY VALUE
uct of Christian piety."  -  Leonard Peikoff          |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rosario@theory.lcs.mit.edu (Rosario Gennaro)
Subject: Re: End to YAZZ thread!
Organization: Laboratory for Computer Science, MIT
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 15:10:07 GMT

In article <1993Jan25.124257.21307@schbbs.mot.com> TXK025@maccvm.corp.mot.com (Eddie Chandler) writes:
>
>This is to let you know - if you are interested -
>that I have been in touch with Rosario and provided her
>with the information that she was after.            ^^^
                           ^^^

That is HIM and HE. 
I haven't undergone a sex change operation yet. 

---rosario

p.s. I guess the confusion comes from the fact that this is 
     a women name in spanish ... but I am italian so ...
--
Rosario Gennaro                     Laboratory for Computer Science      
rosario@theory.lcs.mit.edu          Massachusetts Institute of Technology
gennaro@athena.mit.edu              Cambridge MA 02139

  "... la tua loquela ti fa manifesto di quella nobil patria natio ..."
                                          Inf. X
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: StarOwl@uiuc.edu (Michael D. Adams)
Subject: Re: Pedophilia as sexual orientation
Reply-To: StarOwl@uiuc.edu
Organization: Actuarial Science Program at UIUC
X-Header-1:    Bigotry is not a family value -- boycott Colorado, think twice
X-Header-2:    about Oregon, watch out for Ohio, Idaho, Michigan, Maine, and
X-Header-3:    Florida.
X-Header-5:    Beware lunatic actuaries in the night!
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 15:13:20 GMT

Randu@cup.portal.com (Randall - Jabaay) writes:

>>lasaga@corral.uwyo.edu writes:
>>However,if you want to engage in sex with a minor who doesn't know
>>enough or hasn't the power to say "no",then I have to say that you
>>should NOT do it.

>I agree wholeheartedly.Any sex that's forced on another person is rape.
>But will you also grant a minor the power to say "yes"?

Then consensual acts of pedophilia shouldn't be a problem, right?

Oh, yes.... I keep forgetting that this country has a thing about
legislating morality and prosecuting victimless "crimes."

Anyway, basically any line you draw in defining an age of consent
will be "wrong."  I know some 15-16 year-olds who are mature enough
to accept the responsibility of having sex.  I know some 21-22 year-olds
who aren't mature enough to belong out of kindercare just yet.
(Around here, they happen to belong to these social clubs known as
fraternities...) 

I personally would like to see a fuzzily-defined age-of-consent...but
I'm not sure that the court system in the U.S. is competent enough to
determine a person's own, real "age of consent."

--
Michael D. Adams	|"Since when do you have to agree with people to defend
University of Illinois  | them from injustice?"	   -- Lillian Hellman
StarOwl@uiuc.edu	|"Computer, end program!"  -- Lt. Barkley at the end
Standard Disclaimers    | 	of ST:TNG, "Ship in a Bottle"
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: shafer@spdcc.com (Mary Shafer)
Subject: Best Response? (Was Tips for coming out to friends?)
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 18:57:03 GMT


What respnse do you want to hear from your friends when you do come
out to them?

In reply to one such revelation, my response was "I kind of thought
that was what you were going to say", but that was to someone who had
asked me to go to lunch with hime because he had something very
important that he wanted to tell me.  

In at least one other case, I was so surprised that all I could manage
was "Oh, that's nice".  Now that was a truly insipid response; I mean,
"nice"?  At least I didn't say "Really?" or "Are you sure?", but I
certainly could have done better than "nice".  (Maybe "groovy" or "way
cool"?)

So what's the best response you've gotten to a direct coming-out?  To
an oblique one?  The funniest?


-- 
Mary Shafer  DoD #0362 KotFR  shafer@ursa-major.spdcc.com
Xref: sparky soc.motss:58202 soc.bi:18977