HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: daveh@ka3uzr.UUCP (Dave Hultberg  )
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Je
Keywords: BSA gets our tax money NOT!
Date: 31 Aug 92 22:42:08 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Hams Do It With High Frequency

jon@Turing.ORG (Jon Gefaell (KD4CQY)) writes:

> In article <palane.714626172@pv7426.vincent.iastate.edu> palane@iastate.edu (
> >In <1992Aug23.210258.12959@amhux2.amherst.edu> twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (
> >
> >>BSA gets my tax dollars through the United Way.
> 
> I don't think that the Uniited Way gets any of our tax dollars _directly_
> but certainly as a 501(c)(3) (or whatever) non profit they do enjoy benefits
> related to taxation.
> 
> Of course, the BSA, with it's constitutional charter DOES profit from my tax
> dollars. This is abhorent, given their stance(s)
Other than tax benefits that any non-profit organization is eligable for, 
what tax money does BSA receive, federal, state or local?  I have read BSA's 
congressional charter and there is absolutely nothing in it that entitles 
BSA to any money from any level of government.  Please explain to me 
specifically how BSA is profiting from our tax dollars.

Dave Hultberg, Cubmaster Pack 196, Keystone Area Council, Eagle Class of 67

    73 de Dave KA3UZR  Twisted Pair: 717-766-3553  Fidonet: 1:270/101.28  
    Packet: KA3UZR @ K3WKK.PA.USA.NA  UUCP: daveh@ka3uzr.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: john@anasazi.com (John R. Moore)
Subject: Re: Heredity of homosexuality
Reply-To: john@anasazi.com
Organization: Anasazi Inc, Phoenix AZ USA
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 04:06:37 GMT

Keywords: 

In article <78584@ut-emx.uucp> zeus@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Mark Gansle) writes:
]And therein lies the difference between racism and discrimination
]against homosexuals.  One is proven to be hereditary and so cannot be
]changed and is not a subject for ridicule.  The other seems very likely
]to be a personal choice, and like all personal choices, is subject to judgment.

I really suspect that most homosexuality is NOT a personal choice. There
are too many writings about/by people who, at some young age, "discovered" that
they were homosexual. You don't discover that you have made a choice - you
simply make a choice.

Now, homosexual activity is voluntary... people who are heterosexual
under normal conditions often turn to homosexuality in prison. People
who are homosexual all the time COULD choose to remain celibate. However,
I don't think one should condemn a homosexual just because that person
could, in theory, remain celebate, but doesn't.

Furthermore, I think you are going to find more biological differences - at
least for SOME homosexuals - that are not caused by the choice of
engaging in homsexual acts.

None of this, by the way implies either heredity or mutation - you can
also have developmental differences arise during pregnancy as a result
of environmental factors. Also, given the many different ways that
people experience eroticism (autoeroticism, heterosexual sex, homosexual
sex, S&M, bestiality, violence, etc), I suspect that eroticism is rather
loosely tied down in the human brain, and it might take only a minor
change during development to flip the eroticism one way or another.

-- 
John Moore NJ7E, 7525 Clearwater Pkwy, Scottsdale, AZ 85253  (602-951-9326)
john@anasazi.com ncar!noao!asuvax!anasaz!john anasaz!john@asuvax.eas.asu.edu
       - - Gun Control Means Hitting What You are Aiming At! - -
 - - - "It is better to be judged by twelve, than carried by six." - - -
Xref: sparky rec.scouting:2746 alt.discrimination:4074 alt.atheism:16332 alt.politics.homosexuality:5622
From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Date: 2 Sep 92 00:04:28 GMT
Followup-To: rec.scouting
Distribution: usa
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <hill.715369256@galena12>, hill@rtsg.mot.com (Karen Hill) writes:
> Ok...say you have a scout troop where X ( where X is a significant portion of
> the troop) number of scouts and their parents do not prescribe to 
> homosexual behavior. Say also that the scout leader is gay. Who should
> leave...all those "homophobe" scouts and their families or the
> gay scout leader? Who chooses who's rights are more important here? If
> either side leaves, discrimination can be claimed.

The people who HAVE the problem should leave.  At least, that's what Ann
Landers advises.  When people say "If you invite X to your event, I won't 
come," the correct response is, "Oh dear, we'll certainly miss you."
-- 

cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com      --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...
From: daveh@ka3uzr.UUCP (Dave Hultberg  )
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Council Address Request
Keywords: Need new addresses
Date: 2 Sep 92 22:46:10 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Hams Do It With High Frequency

I have had several more letter to BSA Councils returned with
forwarding order expired stamps.  Thank you to all that have
previously supplied corrected addresses.  I am currently looking
for addresses for the following:

Council                   Old Address
Greater Niagara Frontier  190 Franklin St, Buffalo NY 14202
Northwest Suburban        1303 East Rand Rd, Arlington Heights
                          IL 60004
Peninsula                 610 Thimble Shoals Blvd, Newport News
                          VA 23606
Southeast Alaska          P.O. Box 510, Juneau AK 99802

Yours in the world fellowship of Scouting,

Dave Hultberg, Cubmaster Pack 196, Keystone Area Council, Eagle Scout '67
Brotherhood member Susquehannock Lodge XI \/\/ \/\/ \/\/, ASTA 1781 (CSPs)

    73 de Dave KA3UZR  Twisted Pair: 717-766-3553  Fidonet: 1:270/101.28  
    Packet: KA3UZR @ K3WKK.PA.USA.NA  UUCP: daveh@ka3uzr.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination
From: damon@umbc4.umbc.edu (Mr. Damon Kelly; ACS (RJE))
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Organization: University of Maryland Baltimore Campus
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 21:35:07 GMT

In article <1992Aug21.094614.15917@m.cs.uiuc.edu> kadie@herodotus.cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie) writes:

[The Bank of America and the Suburban Chicago chapter of the United Way
 now gives cash to groups that have discriminatory hiring practices because
 many of the groups target a group of people with a common charactersitic.]

>
>Thanks to the new policy, the KKK's youth program is now eligible for
>funding since it is designed to serve only white Christians.
>
>And now the challenge: Can you suggest a policy that would include the
>BSA while excluding the KKK?

Nope.

>If not, should the BSA be excluded or
>should the KKK be included?

They both should be excluded. The hiring policies of the BSA and the
general motivation behind the racial hate groups ("We're superior!
You're not! Prepare to die!") have the same goal: exclusion of persons
based on personal traits that wouldn't, in a million years, interfere
with the lifestyle of others.


-d
From: rickc@pogo.wv.tek.com (Rick Clements)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Wide Game (was Re: What's the use in having this group???)
Date: 1 Sep 92 04:39:21 GMT
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Wilsonville,  OR.


In article <1992Aug31.120047.2881@bmerh85.bnr.ca> rcano@bnr.ca writes:
>On a scouting note. does anyone have a suggestion for a wide area game
>(other than capture the flag) suitable for senior cubs (age 9). Our
>fall camp is in a semi wooded area. 

I believe this is from a Scouter in the UK.  I think I got this from the
SCOUTS-L archive.

               Elephant Hunt (wide game for cubs)

You will need: Coloured wool to match up with six's colours, talcum
powder, plastic plant identification labels, TIME to lay the trail. 

Tell story to the pack about the elephants who have escaped from the
local circus, who have asked for the cubs help in getting the elephants
back.  The circus tell us that each elephant is wearing a coloured mat
on it's back, each mat matches one of the sixes colours.  So each six
can look for the elephant wearing their sixes colour on it's back. 

The cubs then follow a trail of wool, picking up their colours as they
go.  They must not pick up any other colours.  You could tell them how
many pieces they should find.  The trail divides and finally the
coloured wool disappears.  All that can be seen is large (talcum powder)
elephants footprints on the ground.  These all lead to one place where
the elephants can clearly be seen, wearing tatty mats on their backs,
(parents or leaders).  But the elephants have been caught by a gang of
thieves who will sell them back to the cubs for #200 no more, no less. 

The cubs are then told that they can gather this money from around a
certain bush.  This money is the plastic plant tabs, stuck into the
ground around the bush.  Each label is marked with an amount of money. 
Each six must only take labels to exactly #200 and pay the thieves for
their elephant.  They then take their elephant back to the circus where
there is sure to be a reward.
-- 
Rick Clements (RickC@pogo.WV.TEK.COM)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,soc.motss
From: katbea@auto-trol.com (Kathy Beatty)
Subject: Re: [UPI] "Queer Nation Milwaukee to boycott United Way"
Organization: Auto-trol Technology Corporation -- Denver, Colorado
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 19:18:35 GMT

jce@cs.scarolina.edu (James C. Evans) writes:
: anthropo@carina.unm.edu (Dominick V. Zurlo) writes:
: 
: >In article <1992Aug26.011106.14665@uwm.edu> dpfabie@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (David Paul Fabie) writes:
: >>The issue is the right of a private organization to set
: >>standards for its membership.  I don't agree with the Catholic Church's
: >>stance on Women being unfit to be clergy.  But I respect and accept their
: >>right as a private organization to set such standards.  The ramifications
: >>for all private groups should the BSA lose are staggering.
: 
: >It's not a question of private organizations, it's a question of
: >discrimination.  It is a question of gays being role models.  If you think 
: >not, then you aren't thinking!  And you're right, the ramifications if
: >the BSA loses are staggering! Civil Rights for all!! What a concept!
: 
: How about freedom of association?
: 
What conservatives really mean by freedom of association is freedom for
them to discriminate against anyone they hate. It's a red herring.


Kathy
Xref: sparky rec.scouting:2814 alt.discrimination:4119 chi.general:964 alt.atheism:16535 alt.politics.homosexuality:5687
From: rescorla@rtnmr.chem.yale.edu (Eric Rescorla)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,chi.general,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Date: 4 Sep 92 18:24:34 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Rescorla for himself.

In article <1992Sep4.033027.12445@auto-trol.com> katbea@auto-trol.com (Kathy Beatty) writes:
>Karen Hill, you are an immoral, ignorant bigot. Your immoral, ignorant
>bigotry hurts children.
Hmm...
It strikes me that the claim that bigotry is "immoral" is every bit
as tenuous as the claim that homosexuality is "immoral". While
I agree that there is no support for the latter, neither do I
see support for the former.
-Ekr


-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric Rescorla, DoD#431 (Nighthawk S)              rescorla@rtnmr.chem.yale.edu
Former chemist now CM400 mechanic                 ekr@eitech.com(preferred)
                       I will hack Unix for food.
From: rchafetz@cephalo.neusc.bcm.tmc.edu (Ross Chafetz)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: How about..
Date: 28 Aug 1992 21:58:10 GMT
Organization: Baylor College of Medicine, Houston,Tx


Could someone start a rec.scouting.policy

:)
Ross


Newsgroups: rec.scouting,soc.motss
From: jce@cs.scarolina.edu (James C. Evans)
Subject: Re: [UPI] "Queer Nation Milwaukee to boycott United Way"
Organization: USC  Department of Computer Science
Date: 28 Aug 92 14:40:08 GMT

katbea@auto-trol.com (Kathy Beatty) writes:

>jce@cs.scarolina.edu (James C. Evans) writes:
>: anthropo@carina.unm.edu (Dominick V. Zurlo) writes:
>: 
>: >In article <1992Aug26.011106.14665@uwm.edu> dpfabie@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (David Paul Fabie) writes:
>: >>The issue is the right of a private organization to set
>: >>standards for its membership.  I don't agree with the Catholic Church's
>: >>stance on Women being unfit to be clergy.  But I respect and accept their
>: >>right as a private organization to set such standards.  The ramifications
>: >>for all private groups should the BSA lose are staggering.
>: 
>: >It's not a question of private organizations, it's a question of
>: >discrimination.  It is a question of gays being role models.  If you think 
>: >not, then you aren't thinking!  And you're right, the ramifications if
>: >the BSA loses are staggering! Civil Rights for all!! What a concept!
>: 
>: How about freedom of association?
>: 
>What conservatives really mean by freedom of association is freedom for
>them to discriminate against anyone they hate. It's a red herring.

I'm sorry, but from the standpoint of protecting civil rights, I have
to agree with Mr. Fabie.  So long as a club's connections with government
are weak, its membership should be allowed to discriminate in its
admission policies against whomever it wants.  Now you and I may find
that discrimination ridiculous or even offensive, but that is the nature
of civil rights--to protect people who are doing unpopular things.
To the extent BSA is a religious organization, and some would argue
that it is, BSA's argument is strengthened.  I simply don't know
enough about the strength of BSA's government connections, or about
recent case law on the subject, to comment on the issue of whether
BSA's actions are government actions for purposes of applicability of
the Bill of Rights.  In any event,
it doesn't strengthen an argument to minimize or
reject someone else's civil rights when claiming your own.

Chris Evans
jce@ocean.geol.scarolina.edu
 
Xref: sparky rec.scouting:2820 alt.discrimination:4120 alt.atheism:16539 alt.politics.homosexuality:5689
From: rlk@underprize.think.com (Robert Krawitz)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Date: 4 Sep 92 23:42:33 GMT
Article-I.D.: underpri.RLK.92Sep4164233
	<1992Sep3.161048.24517@rtsg.mot.com> <1992Sep3.204432.5451@wam.umd.edu>
Distribution: usa
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge Mass., USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: underprize.think.com
In-reply-to: aap@wam.umd.edu's message of Thu, 3 Sep 1992 20:44:32 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.204432.5451@wam.umd.edu> aap@wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo Pinkas) writes:

   This thing about having or not a choice is not so simple.  Some
   people might feel that they have no choice but to take their children
   out from the troop.  Then, neither ine will have a choice.  This is
   the same in a lot of other cases: I have a choice of buying or not a
   house, however, I do not have the money. Ergo: I don't really have a
   choice.  The same here: If some parent doees not want hie/her
   children to be near an homosexual leader (being this a good or bad
   thing to do), he or she will not have a choice but to take his/her
   children from the troop.

   The only real choice here is: Do I want my children under the
   leadership of an homosexual?

   If the answer is yes or I do not care, there is a choice.  If the
   answer is no, there is no choice.

Does your argument change materially if you substitute "Jew" or "black"
or "liberal" for "homosexual"?  If so in any of these cases, why?
--
ames >>>>>>>>>  |	Robert Krawitz <rlk@think.com>	245 First St.
bloom-beacon >  |think!rlk				Cambridge, MA  02142
harvard >>>>>>  .	Thinking Machines Corp.		(617)234-2116

Member of the League for Programming Freedom -- write league@prep.ai.mit.edu
From: kati@glnserv.UUCP (Lady Dragon)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Wasted Bandwidth
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 07:32:40 CDT
Organization: Vermi-net, Houston, Tx. 77098

jkusters@zeus.calpoly.edu (Chrome Jester) writes:

> I know that I am probably in everybody's kill file by now, so I don't really
> know why I bother to try and say this, BUT if Scouting taught me one thing
> (and it didn't, it taught me a life-time of things), it is that you speak up
> for what you feel is right.
Some of us don't have a kill-file, so a few of us might see this. :)
>
> With that in mind, I would like to point out how hypocritical it is to me
> for everyone to be saying how much of a waste of bandwidth it is for people
> to be discussing BSA policies wrt atheists and homosexuals.  They complain
> that we're "flooding" the newsgroup, and hope that we leave soon so that the
> "normal" discussion of Scouting activities and policies can continue.
>
> Hey, folx, there is no limit of how much traffic a newsgroup can handle.  If
> people really wanted to be discussing campouts, leadership, advancement,
> merit badges, international events, and so forth, THERE IS NOTHING STOPPING
> THEM FROM DOING SO.  You are not prevented from discussion just because
> someone else is posting about something other than what you want to talk
> about.
YAY! I'm not particularly interested in the discussion at hand, but I
agree that you do indeed have a right to discuss it, and this is the
appropriate place. Everyone should contribute something besides complaints
about others. Those who want to ask questions, should ask them. Those who
have found out something worth sharing, should do so. This group belongs
to ALL of us, including those of us who aren't in the BSA.

>
>
> My two sense's worth,
>
> JOhn.
> --
> /-John A Kusters, jr.--------------------------------------------------- ____
> | jkusters@ares.calpoly.edu   b0- f- w g- s-- r p++                      \
> Silence keeps us all in darkness, We can't change things overnight;       \
> But we can shed a little light, Be Political not Polite! -Romanovsky & Philli



* * email address: nuchat!xcluud!glnserv!kati * Houston, Texas, USA, Earth * *




Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,chi.general,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: philipla@microsoft.com (Phil Lafornara)
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Date: 26 Aug 92 18:00:46 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article <1992Aug24.174130.17548@spdc.ti.com> achenbac@epcot.spdc.ti.com (Jeff Achenbach) writes:
>
>Unless things have changed tremendously since I was a scout (and they may
>have), a scout caught engaging in sexual activities, whether hetero or homo,
>wouldn't have been a scout for long. As far as being leaders: If they are 
>still in the closet, nobody knows. If they are openly homosexual, then they
>are definitely not qualified to be role models for young boys. I have yet to
>meet the parent who openly hopes their child will grow up to be homosexual.

     So a dishonest leader is better than a gay one?  Interesting
values the BSA is teaching these days - lying, cheating, and stealing
are OK - loving others is not.  Tolerance is bad.  Bigotry is good.
     

>   In anticipation of an outcry of "homophobe" or some such nonsense, let me
>be blunt. I consider homosexuality a behavioral aberration, somewhat on the 
>order of picking one's nose and eating it. It doesn't directly affect me, but
>neither do I wish to be associated with it. I have better things to do than 
>worry about someone else's deviant behavior. 

     Gee, thanks for sharing.  So, when has blatantly anti-social
bigotry become something other than a "behavioral aberration"?

					-Phil


-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phil Lafornara         				1 Microsoft Way         
philipla@microsoft.com				Redmond, WA 98052-6399 
Note:  Microsoft doesn't even _know_ that these are my opinions. So there.
From: daveh@frackit.UUCP (Dave Hultberg)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: BofA and UW
Summary: get real!!!
Date: 1 Sep 92 16:20:38 GMT
Followup-To: rec.scouting
Organization: Esoteric Tribble Factory, Harrisburg, PA

In article <1992Aug26.213507.1181@umbc3.umbc.edu>, damon@umbc4.umbc.edu
 (Mr. Damon Kelly; ACS (RJE)) in response to Carl Kadie writes: 
> 
> They both should be excluded. The hiring policies of the BSA and the
> general motivation behind the racial hate groups ("We're superior!
> You're not! Prepare to die!") have the same goal: exclusion of persons
> based on personal traits that wouldn't, in a million years, interfere
> with the lifestyle of others.

Get real, you are attributing words and attitudes to the Scouts that are
just not true.  I have read all of the press releases from national and
the statements in the Scouting magazine that all BSA leaders receive. 
No where in any of this does BSA ever claim to be superior or this
prepare to die BULLSHIT!  All BSA is claiming is that as a private
organization they have a constitutional right to decide their own
membership policies.  They have taken great care in explaining that they
are not condemning gays or athesists.  They have never claimed that they
have a right to UW funding.  In fact the official statement from
national denies that BSA even backs a boycott of Levis.  You may not
agree with their decision to exclude gays or athesists from membership
or leadership positions, but as a private organization they are entitled
to do so.  Writing inflamatory crap like "Prepare to die" doesn't do
much for the credibility of your argument.


-- 
Private site: ka3uzr    |    Mechanicsburg, Pa.    |    Dave Hultberg
uunet!rutgers!psuvax1!eds1!wa3wbu!frackit!ka3uzr!daveh 
vogon1!wa3wbu!frackit!ka3uzr!daveh@psuvax1.psu.edu  
daveh@ka3uzr.uucp    -or-    ka3uzr!daveh@uunet.UU.NET
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,soc.motss
From: kadie@herodotus.cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie)
Subject: Re: [UPI] "Queer Nation Milwaukee to boycott United Way"
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 14:25:10 GMT

dpfabie@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (David Paul Fabie) writes:

[...]
>The issue is the right of a private organization to set
>standards for its membership.

Not so. Their legal right is not being challenged, only their moral
right to be the only organziation to violate the United Way charter
and still get funds.

>I don't agree with the Catholic Church's
>stance on Women being unfit to be clergy.  But I respect and accept their
>right as a private organization to set such standards.  The ramifications
>for all private groups should the BSA lose are staggering.
[...]

The Catholic Church does not expect money from the United Way for
programs exclude people because of their religious belief. The
ramifications for other private groups should the BSA lose is that
their will be a bigger share of United Way money available for
programs that do not violate the United Way charter.

- Carl


--
Carl Kadie -- kadie@cs.uiuc.edu -- University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Xref: sparky rec.scouting:2650 alt.discrimination:4028 chi.general:889 alt.atheism:16110 alt.politics.homosexuality:5578