Organization: Ryerson Polytechnical Institute
Distribution: na
Date: Wednesday, 9 Sep 1992 01:02:32 EST
From: <ADMN8686@RyeVm.Ryerson.Ca> (Tom Grgic)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
Subject: Re: Pure Flame, nothing else Was: Re: The goal of an intervention
 <1992Sep7.191310.23717@cs.yale.edu>
 <1992Sep8.000326.12859@unixland.natick.ma.us>
 <1992Sep8.092115.15467@husc3.harvard.edu>

In article <1992Sep8.092115.15467@husc3.harvard.edu>,
stojanov@husc10.harvard.edu (Milan Stojanovic) says:
>
>In article <1992Sep8.000326.12859@unixland.natick.ma.us>
>sharon@unixland.natick.ma.us (Sharon Machlis Gartenberg) writes:
>>
>>In my opinion, those who fired the first shots at defenseless civilians
>>are infinitely more to blame than those who took a political action in
>>response to a democratic election.
>
>Yap, Muslims on the Serbian wedding.  Thanks Sharon, I wouldn't expect
>this level of objectivity from you.  Also attemtpts to take over in Bijeljina
>a municipality with 70% of Serbs before ( now 90% ) war.

How can an incident at a wedding be your answer? Are you comparing that
to Serbian bombardment of Sarajevo, Gorazde, Jajce, Foca, Visegrad and
dozens of other towns and villages in Bosnia? How many Serbian towns have
been on the receiving end of similar attacks? Bijeljina had 59% Serbs as
a county and 31% Muslims.

>>
>>THOSE WHO WERE FIRST TO USE A *MILITARY* RESPONSE TO A *POLITICAL*
>>PROBLEM MUST ACCEPT THE MAJORITY OF BLAME FOR THE CARNAGE.
>>
>
>Thanks Sharon for offering Serbs minority position in Bosnia.  Serbs do not
>want that, and if you do not like, please take up arms and go there.

Actually Milan, Serbs are nothing more than a minority in Bosnia. Since this
really irks you, I'll write it one more time. SERBS ARE NOTHING MORE THAN A
MINORITY IN BOSNIA. Croats are a minority, and Muslims are a minority.
What really irks you and those killing in the name of eternal Serbdom is that
Muslims and Croats together make a majority.

Your comment to Sharon that she take up arms is typical, and it
speaks for yourself and your Serbian fighters - when the going gets tough,
kill, mutilate, steal, rape, pillage, burn, threaten, and destroy the enemy.
But we as all know, this tactic is undertaken only because SERBS ARE
NOTHING MORE THAN A MINORITY IN BOSNIA, and outside of democratic means, it is
the only way to achive your desires.

>>NOT those who were using conventional diplomatic actions.
>>
>>>The West should be ashamed for what it did, because it needlessly unleashed
>>>a civil war in a country that could have found a peaceful, political,
>>>solution to its problems, only if it had pressed Mr. Izetbegovic to find a
>>>diplomatic solution.
>>
>>Actually, the Serbian nationalists should be ashamed.
>>
>
>I am not, OK?

No, I guess most realistic people wouldn't be ashamed of those who kill,
mutilate, steal, rape, pillage, burn, threaten and massacre into graves.

>>*They* needlessly unleashed massive death, destruction, and suffering in a
>>country that could have found a peaceful, political solution to its
>>problems. If only they had gone to the negotiating table instead of
>>destroying the nation and murdering tens of thousands of people.
>>
>
>Sharon, it is very difficult not to start a flame war here calling you
>names.  Mr. Andrej Benedejcic correctly defined you behaviour in his
>postings.  Who refused negotiations about cantonization and who refused
>to go along what he has already signed ? Alija, your man, not Serbs.
>Idea of cantonization has backing of the majority of the "Bosnians,"
>ie. Croats and Serbs.  I know that you read "Serbian foes are at odds
>in Sarajevo," you have quoted it yesterday.

The fact remains that the armed uprising and organized actions of pillaging,
rape, massacres, destruction, bombing, burning and destroying ARE AND WERE
THE MAIN TACTIC OF THE SERBS (WHO BY THE WAY, MILAN, ARE NOTHING MORE THAN
A MINORITY IN BOSNIA) -- and since the Serbs managed to grab all the land
they had their fangs set on, of course they could put forward plans for
cantonization -- they already had what they wanted! Why would you expect
'her man', Alija, to succumb to these kind of terror tactics? Why didn't
the Muslims go out and grab 75% of Bosnia the way the Serbs did? What gives
the Serbs this exclusive right in the Balkans? After all, Muslims make up
44% of the Republic and Serbs only 32% -- Muslims sure as heck have more of
a right to it?!

>>It is truly incredible to me that you DON'T blame those with the guns
>>who are killing people, but outsiders thousands of miles away who used
>>a legitimate political tool -- diplomatic recognition -- in response to
>>an election.
>>
>
>Ughrrr.   Alija's refusal to negotiate is dirrect result of premature
>recognition. As far as election goes, the government is a coalition
>government of nationalistic parties.  Alija never won absolute majority of
>votes, so please do not spread lies.  With formation of Herceg-Bosna
>and Serbian Republic of Bosnia, Alija and his "secular" state are history
>and sooner he realizes that, better for everyone.

Ah yes, Milan, there's nothing like outrightly stating that "Alija's" state is
history. Serbian Rep. of Bosnia has been formed by the Serbs, let's for the
sake of simplicity put Herceg-Bosna on the same level (even thought you
overlook the military alliance of Bosnia with Croatia), and you say that
the Serbs tactics of destruction, ethnic cleansing, rape, pillaging, burning,
massacring, and killing have now surmounted in the unavoidable conclusion
that the 'sooner he realizes that, better for everyone.' So Alija and
2,650,000 Muslims and Croats are supposed to give up just like that? - all
so that A MINORITY NATION CAN GET IT'S WAY? You don't really think it's gonna
stop here, do ya? ;-)

And the real topper to all this is your close, 'better for everyone' - you've
got a lot of gall proposing to the 750,000 Muslims & Croats that Serbs have
driven out of Bosnia that it'll be 'better for everyone.' You are a sadist.

>>Sharon Machlis Gartenberg
>>Framingham, MA  USA
>>email: sharon@unixland.natick.ma.us   or   uunet!think.com!unixland!sharon
>
> [Milan's sig not present, but let it be known, for clarification]

Tom Grgic
admn8686@ryevm.ryerson.ca

p.s. - Does Harvard actually offer you money in exchange for some service
       on your behalf? Come on now, wha'da'ya have against 'em?
Xref: sparky soc.culture.yugoslavia:8677 soc.culture.greek:8802 eunet.politics:1308