HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jgardner@convex.com (John B. Gardner)
Subject: Re: A Golden-Ear perspective on CD players.
Keywords: flame bait, CD accuracy
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 18:24:01 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

In article <22508@alice.att.com> jj@alice.UUCP (jj, just jj, still jj) writes:
>In article <gilchr.702625341@ee.ualberta.ca> gilchr@ee.ualberta.ca (Andrew Gilchrist) writes:
>>Come down from planet nine. If your SNR is below unity, you won't hear
>>music, no matter WHAT the reproductions system.
>Bzzzzzt.  WRONG, WRONG, WRONG.  For either analog or digital
>signals (both have exactly the same behavior in enlightened
>implementation despite the uninformed luddite insistance otherwise)
>one can clearly hear a sine wave below the noise floor.


I've wondered about this more than once.  jj, I know you gave references,
but I'm lazy :-), so I'll just ask...

Many years ago I read a white paper from Hewlett Packard on how some of
their digital signal analyzers work.  It was an excellent summary, covering
everything from simple FFT's to signal correlation.  I was wondering about
the relationship between "autocorrelation" and the ability of humans to
hear tones below the noise floor.  The two processes seem remarkably
similar.

Does the human psychoacoustic process involve an analogy of FFT processing
and autocorrelation?  Would thinking about the hearing process in these
terms help understanding?

-- 
   /\ /_  _    jgardner@convex.com
   \//_//_/
   /     /     "Poor is the man whose pleasures depend
  /    \/       on the permission of another" -Madonna
Xref: sparky rec.audio:7425 ba.market.misc:2831 misc.forsale:13986 misc.wanted:5072 ca.wanted:577
From: frank@chips.com (Frank Tsang)
Newsgroups: rec.audio,ba.market.misc,misc.forsale,misc.wanted,ca.wanted
Subject: WANTED: THIEL CS1.2 SPEAKERS
Keywords: WANTED: THIEL CS1.2 SPEAKERS
Date: 14 Apr 92 21:15:14 GMT
Followup-To: poster
Distribution: usa
Organization: Chips and Technologies, San Jose, CA


SPEAKERS WANTED: Thiel CS1.2

Comments/info are appreciated.

-- 
+ Frank Tsang                   |   ^++^    "__"    +
+ (408)-434-0600 x2552 (W)      |  @ oo @  @ .. @   +
+ (415)-791-0658       (H)      |   ([])    (())    +
+ e-mail: frank@chips.com       |   Heeelllloooo    +
Newsgroups: rec.audio

In rec.audio, gt0179a@prism.gatech.EDU (Mike Chu) writes:

    In article <1190700@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com> kurts@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Kurt Strain) writes:

  Deleted rubbish

  >I just wanted to make that clear to those audiophile-types that they sure
  >are gullible and don't know anything.  After all, they usually spend
  >too much on the system and not enough on software.  If they were smart
  >they would get into overpriced software and hardware [. . .]

  Deleted rubbish

  >I heard most audiophiles have bad ears, too.  I think they should be strung
  >up like a bunch of fags.  That'll learn them.


> Gullible?  Ladies and Gentleman, please don't be qullible enough to give this
> guy's pee-wee flames any credibility:

Come on.  They were well thought out.  Believe it or NOT! I have no relation
to Pee-Wee.

>  1)  Are you sure audiophiles spend too little on software?  I have known and
> heard about audiophiles with record and CD collections that would kick your
> local music store's selection.  How many folks do you know with several thousandCDs and several tens of thousands of LPs?  Personally, I could listen to my   
> CDs on a hundred dollar system, but why settle for less?

Audiophiles buy used records, and that's too cheap.  I have never seen an
audiophile's record collection larger than 5000 records.  A small amount.
And real men listen to it through a grundgy system.

> 2)  Oh, so you've "heard" that audiophiles have bad ears.  I'd rather have
> bad ears than be deaf.  Have you ever talked to any or been to any stores --
> the stereotypes (no pun intended) given to audiophiles on this net are
> sometimes unfounded.

I know of one, at least.  I have been to a few stores and I know a good stereo-
type when I use one.


> 3)  "Like a bunch of fags"  But of course, let's wipe out any faction we
> don't like or understand...  Heil Hitler.  Go David Duke.
> any credit.    

Got carried away, it's those darn audiophiles always getting me fuming.

> -- 
> Mike Chu  --  Freshman Chemical Engineering

Freshman, eh.  You obviously are new to this net.  (snicker)
From: snuggeha@ismdqa.intel.com (Srikanth Nuggehalli ~)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Mail Order Places for NAD and B&W
Date: 30 Mar 92 16:56:41 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Intel Corp.




Hi,
	Have any of you mail ordered B&W speakers or NAD equipment?
I'm in the market for a new pre-amp and speakers and would be interested
in obtaining the names and phone numbers of places that do mail order
delivery of the above brands.  I  would appreciate it if you could
e-mail me the phone numbers of these stores.

Thanks in advance,
--Sri

Srikanth Nuggehalli
Intel Corp. Santa Clara CA

		My opinions and mine alone!!
From: gordie@mcode.amdahl.com (Gordon Freedman)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: Air?  Wossat? (was Re: Terms)
Date: 7 Apr 92 22:36:04 GMT
Reply-To: gjf00@duts.ccc.amdahl.com
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale Ca.

In article <1992Apr6.155031.21647@bristol.ac.uk>, smee@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee) writes:
> Well, now I've done it, sigh.  As a result of my explanation of
> 'imaging' and 'transparency', I've had mail from someone wanting to
> know if I could explain 'air' in similar terms.  I can't.  In fact,
> it's only recently that I've seen reviewers using the term.  Anyone
> want to have a go?
> 
> -- 
> Paul Smee, Computing Service, University of Bristol, Bristol BS8 1UD, UK
>  P.Smee@bristol.ac.uk - ..!uunet!uknet!bsmail!p.smee - Tel +44 272 303132

One explanation of air I have heard is:

Air is the feeling of space/air surrounding instruments, as opposed to
all of the sounds being clumped together with "no air" between them.

I don't know if the "Audio Glossary" by J Gordon Holt describes this,
but I hear it bantered about in TAS and Stereophile. The Audio Glossary
(I think I have the name right) is available from Audio Advisor, they
advertise in Stereophile.

-- 
Gordon Freedman: gjf00@duts.ccc.amdahl.com  -> Dis: DAT
The difference between theory and practise in practise is greater than
the difference between theory and practise in theory - someone else's sig
From: rkarlqu@hpscit.sc.hp.com (Rick Karlquist)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 03:54:18 GMT
Subject: Re: Turtable advice
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Clara, CA
Newsgroups: rec.audio

> / hpscit:rec.audio / root@irisa.fr (Operator) /  6:26 am  Apr  8, 1992 /
> I previously own only a CD player but I recently bought a turntable just to compare
> with CD.
> It's an old thorens mk155 with a grado mc + .
> I am novice in turntable and I'm looking for any informations about
> turntable in general and about this thorens in particular.
> email : leconte@irisa.fr   telex : 950473 UNIRISA
> phone : 99 84 72 93        fax   : 99 38 38 32 
> bureau AB 302
> ----------
o

I used to own a Thorens TD-155 and I unfortunately will have to 
inform you that it is a mediocre turntable with very bad arm.
I replaced mine with a Dual 1249 with ULM arm which cost me only
$99 and got much better bass response, much better tracking of
warped records and accurate speed.  My TD-155 always ran at
33 2/3 RPM and was not adjustable.  My pitch perception is
good enough that I could notice the 1% error.  If you insist on
modifying your TD-155, start by throwing away the arm!

Rick Karlquist
rkarlqu@scd.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: grant981@Armstrong.EDU (Brad Grant)
Subject: for sale DTX-10
Organization: Armstrong State College, Savannah, GA
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 19:10:20 GMT

  I have a Sony DTX-10 (car DAT) that I bought from Crutchfield for $399.
I have never used the DAT section as I don't presently have any recorded tapes.
I really don't need it and would be willing to sell it for $349 (remember, this
is a new deck with a $1200 list) or best offer.  If you havent seen one of 
these before, it is a really neat unit. Send any and all inquires to 
   grant981@armstrong.EDU
From: kls30@duts.ccc.amdahl.com (Kent L Shephard)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: New Japanese Coax Power Plug
Date: 14 Apr 92 15:52:08 GMT
Reply-To: kls30@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com
Distribution: na
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <1992Apr14.125002.27101@panix.com> schuster@panix.com (Michael Schuster) writes:
>New Japanese portable radios feature a standardized coaxial power connector
>which is color coded according to voltage (e.g. for the new SONY shortwave
>portables yellow means 6V). They are center pin positive and form factor
>INCOMPATIBLE with every 'universal adaptor' presently sold. The barrel
>appears to be 4MM as opposed to 2.5 or 5mm+ sizes presently used, and
>the center pin is VERY LARGE compared to the relatively thin barrel size.
>
>Anyone have a source for these things?
>
>

Sony uses the same plug on their TCD-D3 portable DAT player.
A friend of mine lost his AC adapter.  We couldn't get an off-the-shelf
universal adapter to fit.

I wound up going to Radio Shack, got the plug and cut the end of a
generic adapter and put the correct one on.


--
/*  -The opinions expressed are my own, not my employers.    */
/*      For I can only express my own opinions.              */
/*                                                           */
/*   Kent L. Shephard  : email - kls30@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com   */
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: jgardner@convex.com (John B. Gardner)
Subject: Re: New LP-CD flame material
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 19:34:57 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

In article <1190690@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com> kurts@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Kurt Strain) writes:
>Well, aren't people like you saying all CDs are perfect and sound the same?
>It's a fair comparison by that standard.

Just for the sake of "truth", I've never said explicitly or eluded to in
any way that: "all CDs are perfect and sound the same".  I can say that I 
have IMO heard clear differences between CD players.  I owned a Sony D5 
for petes sake, does that say it clearly enough?

Comparing a highend LP system to a lowend CD player using different review
selections and a biased subject just has no worth.  You are correct in your 
subject line; it's flame material.

Anyway, Kurt (or anybody) have you an opinion on DCC (or MD)?  A recent
article in SR or Audio indicated that extensive ABX tests with a wide
variety of source material (and test equipment) found that there was *no*
reviewer who could indicate any difference what so ever between DCC
processing and straight-wire.

This is significant, not only could the (fairly elite) panel not identify
the processed signal, they could not statistically determine there was any
difference at all. 

Comments?

-- 
   /\ /_  _    jgardner@convex.com
   \//_//_/
   /     /     "Poor is the man whose pleasures depend
  /    \/       on the permission of another" -Madonna
From: smee@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: Imped. Matching w/ Resistors?!
Date: 15 Apr 92 09:55:17 GMT
Reply-To: P.Smee@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee)
Organization: University of Bristol

In article <1992Apr14.155623.7783@news.eng.convex.com> jgardner@convex.com (John B. Gardner) writes:
>I've seen this several times in this thread - that high damping is
>critical for accurate reproduction.  Well hold on just a second here,
>most tube amps, which "audiophiles" drool over and sell there Saabs
>to purchase (;-), have very LOW damping factors.  In fact, the
>Carver Silver Seven's which cost about $17,000 and are pretty much
>universally revered in the audiophile ranks, have a damping factor of 
>6!!!  Yes, that's 6!!! Compare this is to solid state amps which are
>typically >200.
>
>So, are we flapping our jaws in the electronic breeze, or could someone
>explain how an amp with a damping factor of 6 can sound good, despite
>what everyone is claming here.

The 'right' answer (IMHO, as always) is that they sound different, and
some people prefer that sound.  (I don't much care for the classic tube
sound, myself, and I'm old enough to remember how, when ANY electronic
gadget 'broke', you'd open it up, pop out the tubes, and run them
through the tube tester in the local tube shop.  All the while praying
that it wouldn't be the big one that cost 2 months allowance.)

Transistors and tubes tend to impose different inaccuracies on the
signal (tubes have their own classic sets of distortions, which
transistors don't, and vice versa) and which flavor of not-quite-right
you prefer is a matter of taste.  

There's also evidence to indicate that 'accurate reproduction' and
'what people like' don't always match very well.  For example, the
Audiolab power amp, which I like (and own) has been criticised by at
least one British audiophile mag for having a 'neutral' effect on the
music -- i.e. it only puts out what you put into it.  Personally, I
think that is high praise, but not everyone agrees.

Finally, there's the problem that you can't look at just one spec in
isolation.  They interact.  You want the smallest possible crosstalk
between channels, the highest possible damping factor, the lowest
possible THD, the flattest possible frequency response, ...  No one amp
or technology will get you the best possible measurements for all of
them; so you pick whichever particular tradeoff makes YOU feel better.
(That's also why you can't sensibly buy things just by looking at the
spec sheets; you've got to listen.)
-- 
Paul Smee, Computing Service, University of Bristol, Bristol BS8 1UD, UK
 P.Smee@bristol.ac.uk - ..!uunet!uknet!bsmail!p.smee - Tel +44 272 303132
From: smee@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: A Golden-Ear perspective on CD players.
Date: 15 Apr 92 10:02:38 GMT
Reply-To: P.Smee@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee)
Organization: University of Bristol

In article <1992Apr7.222913.16264@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> reha@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Reha Elci) writes:
>The CD sampling rate is at 44Khz. Why hasn't anybody pointed out that this 
>sampling rate is not really sufficient to reproduce accurate high frequency
>signals? 

No, jj, don't do it. :-)  It hasn't been pointed out, because in fact
sampling rate just over 2x the freq you want to reproduce IS
sufficient.  44Khz sampling is more than enough to get you up to
20Khz.  Go to your nearest friendly electronic library (columbia must
have one) and look up Nyquist.

>The number of bits is also somewhat of a problem. 16 bits mean, at best,
>1 part in 65536 parts resolution. -20 * Log (1/65536) = 96.33 dB of
>dynamic range (is this how it is calculated??). This also seems somewhat
>low if you are interested in accurate and detailed sound quantification.

This is 96dB above the noise floor, and while it may not be perfect, it
is a much wider dynamic range than you can get from any other home
medium, in practice at least.

>Given the specs above, it is not too shocking to hear how some people
>may prefer analog recordings, especially good ones, to CD reproductions.

Analog and digital DO have different colorations, and I've got no 
problems with the idea that some people like the analog presentation 
better, while others prefer the digital.  However, the particular specs
you've chosen to use are DEFINITELY not the reason.

-- 
Paul Smee, Computing Service, University of Bristol, Bristol BS8 1UD, UK
 P.Smee@bristol.ac.uk - ..!uunet!uknet!bsmail!p.smee - Tel +44 272 303132
From: gt0179a@prism.gatech.EDU (Mike Chu)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: Re: CD rot -- who gives a damn?
Date: 10 Apr 92 23:34:32 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

In article <1190700@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com> kurts@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Kurt Strain) writes:

Deleted rubbish

>I just wanted to make that clear to those audiophile-types that they sure
>are gullible and don't know anything.  After all, they usually spend
>too much on the system and not enough on software.  If they were smart
>they would get into overpriced software and hardware [. . .]

Deleted rubbish
 
>I heard most audiophiles have bad ears, too.  I think they should be strung
>up like a bunch of fags.  That'll learn them.


Gullible?  Ladies and Gentleman, please don't be qullible enough to give this
guy's pee-wee flames any credibility:

1)  Are you sure audiophiles spend too little on software?  I have known and
heard about audiophiles with record and CD collections that would kick your
local music store's selection.  How many folks do you know with several thousandCDs and several tens of thousands of LPs?  Personally, I could listen to my   
CDs on a hundred dollar system, but why settle for less?

2)  Oh, so you've "heard" that audiophiles have bad ears.  I'd rather have
bad ears than be deaf.  Have you ever talked to any or been to any stores --
the stereotypes (no pun intended) given to audiophiles on this net are
sometimes unfounded.

3)  "Like a bunch of fags"  But of course, let's wipe out any faction we
don't like or understand...  Heil Hitler.  Go David Duke.
  
any credit.    
-- 
Mike Chu  --  Freshman Chemical Engineering
Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
uucp:	  ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt0179a
Internet: gt0179a@prism.gatech.edu
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: fdeck@sleepy.helios.nd.edu (francis deck)
Subject: Re: More Psuedoscience...: A Golden-Ear perspective on CD players.
Organization: University of Notre Dame, Notre Dame
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 17:08:13 GMT


Since we've yet to identify the physical cause of why some CD
machines sound good and some sound bad, we're left to our own
devices (and ears) to sort it all out.  When I was buying CD
players, I hit upon the idea that maybe by some random luck,
an _inexpensive_ player might actually sound better than the
"high-end" machines, since we really don't know what makes a
good CD player sound better than a bad one anyway.

I auditioned several very exotic machines, all the way down
to the cheapest.  I found that the least expensive Magnavox
machine sounded just as good to my discerning ears as any other
player, cheap or expensive.  I'd say I am lucky, since my
adventure wound up saving me $1000's.

The moral of the story is that one shouldn't assume that expensive
is the same as good.

f. deck
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: D1SAR@AKRONVM.UAKRON.EDU (Steve Rimar)
Subject: Thanks (ADCOM REPLY)
Organization: The University of Akron
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 12:23:02 GMT

Thanks for all the replies about ADCOM.  I received about 6 positive and 1
'it sucks'.  Thanks to everyone.
 
Steve Rimar
The University of Akron
Akron Ohio
From: basham@[128.157.59.2]
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Spinal Tap (was: thought for the day)
Date: 8 Apr 92 23:13:37 GMT
Article-I.D.: aio.1992Apr8.231337.22203
Reply-To: <basham@[128.157.59.2]>
Organization: nasa-jsc

In article <92098.171333JBEST@ESOC.BITNET> Jon <JBEST@ESOC.BITNET> writes:
> 
> >> Wasn't Spinal Tap a BRITISH rock group?
> 
> > To tell the truth, I've never been sure.  Seem to recall that they were
> > in the movie, but I believe the most recent incarnation of them that
> > I've heard of was American.
> 
> Check out your local record shop. Believe it or not (I didn't) they've
> just released a new album (!!???!) 'in conjunction with' several BIG
> names in the rock world. Truth IS stranger than fiction after all...
> 
>    Jon

There is a hillarious article in SPIN about Spinal Tap and their new
album, Break Like the Wind. :-)  Let us all remember (or learn for
the first time) that Spinal Tap was/is a joke band.  In fact, one of
the members (Nigel, I think) is Lenny from the old TV show Lavern &
Shirley; does any one know for sure?  The article is short so go to
you local mag-stand and read it -- and remember, the band is a joke;
even though SPIN says that the band is 25 years old (try less than
10, they formed for the fake rockumentary "This is Spinal Tap").

Bryan Basham
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: gunter@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Gunter Ahrendt)
Subject: Re: Sherwood?
Organization: University of Western Australia
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 03:45:49 GMT

markw@hpcss01.cup.hp.com (Mark Williams) writes:

>Like Marantz, Harmon Kardon, Fisher, Crown, and Scott, Sherwood
>was an old respected American firm which withered under the Japanese
>onslaught in the early 1970s.  Mostly the names were picked up in bankruptcy
>court by the Japanese multinationals.  Sherwood gear today is made in Korea,

No your very wrong here.

Marantz is owned by Philips and always was.
Harmon/Kardon is German and still is and always was.
but
From: lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: requesting CD player advice
Date: 8 Apr 92 01:04:06 GMT
Reply-To: lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corp., Mountain View, CA

In article <1992Apr6.133535.1567@bilver.uucp> bill@bilver.uucp (Bill Vermillion) writes:
>
>My first component system used a Bogen integrated amplifier.
>(They did make 'hi-fi' equipment a LONG time ago).
>
   Gak.  A Bogen integrated.  Did you have University Tri-Planar
   speakers too?   

   My first system upgrade was to replace my Bogen with Dynakit
   and pretending I really bought the Bogen for PA use....

   But you must admit that 1-3% analog distortion is rarely 
   objectionable (except in the amp)....but that even a few 
   hundredths of a per cent digitally induced distortion can be
   pretty annoying.
From: myers@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Bob Myers)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: Re: Audiophile Bashing, was CD rot -- who gives a damn?
Date: 15 Apr 92 19:22:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: hpfcso.7490152
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA

>In rec.audio, myers@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Bob Myers) writes:
> 
>> In rec.audio, kurts@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Kurt Strain) writes:
> 
>> ....one of the more content-free posts I have seen recently.  Kurt, was that
>> post supposed to contain ANY information or value whatsoever, or was it just
>> dumping more gasoline on the flames?
> 
>                  This post intentionally left blank.

Now, THAT'S more like it!  At least an order of magnitude above the previous!


Bob Myers            | "One man's theology is another man's belly laugh." 
myers@fc.hp.com      |                     - Lazarus Long/Robert A. Heinlein
                     |                                
Newsgroups: rec.audio