HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: xu@prim.rose.utoronto.ca (Jiefeng Xu)
Subject: Re: Cheap airfares to Asia
Organization: University of Toronto, Department of Industrial Engineering
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 23:54:40 GMT

chriskim@ocf.berkeley.edu (Chris M. Kim) writes:

>	Stay away from Northwest or "Northworst" as I have learned from my 
>	horrid experience I had a year ago in going to Seoul.  The flight 
>	was actually quite pleasant.  However, everything that was not 
>	in the air was miserable.  I wrote a two page complaint letter 
>	that was heavily edited to make it short and concise, but even the 
>	response to that was pitiful at best.

>	The moral of this post is STAY AWAY FROM NORTHWORST!


>	Chris

I had a trip with NW last year from Hong Kong to Toronto via stop at Toyko
and Detroit. I would like to say that the first part of the trip is 
wonderful (Most attendants are Hong Kong girls ). However the last two parts   
were not complimentary. The services were just routine. And when arriving
in Toronto, I found one of my claimed baggage was demaged. I filed a
complaint letter to the President of NW, and finally they responds me 
politely and let me have the damaged suitcase repaired and forward the bill
to them. I have asked the repairer about the value of the bill, it's around
CAN$50 (equivalent to US$42). By the way, the price of my trip was
surprisingly low, for one trip from Hong Kong to Toronto, it only costed about
US$450.
US$450
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: laicheng@tartarus.uwa.edu.au (Lai Cheng Lam)
Subject: Don't Misjudge Malaysians Just Because Of One Incident
Organization: University of Western Australia
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 10:08:37 GMT

I'm refering to, of course, the kidnapping of the two children by
a Malaysian prince. Although I myself am Malaysian, I need to express
sympathy for the grieving mother here in Australia. I do believe
that the children will be happier in Australia than in Malaysia, not
that Malaysia is not a good place to grow up in ... but I feel that
the children should grow up naturally, and not governed by nannies
and what-not!

Still, I need to stress that people should not be biased in their
opinion of Malaysians just because of one incident. If you truly took
the time get to know us, you would know that we are really warm and
friendly people. We genuinely interested in people in general, no matter
who they are or where they come from. I'd also like to invite people
to visit Malaysia and see the wonderful delights my homeland has to
offer.

I'll say so much for now. Anyone interested in knowing about me or
Malaysia in general can e-mail me using:
	
	laicheng@tartarus.uwa.edu.au

I would greatly like to extend Malaysia's well-known hospitality to you!

Xref: sparky soc.culture.asean:5575 soc.culture.thai:2451 soc.culture.korean:3721 soc.culture.china:23392 soc.culture.taiwan:12109 rec.travel:12062
From: sya@admin.keh.utulsa.edu (Syed Shibli)
Subject: Re: Mahatir proposes National Service for Malaysians
Organization: Yale CS Mail/News Gateway
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 11:15:59 GMT


From the keyborad of Hibatur Rahman Ahmad, who writes:

>p/s ask yourself, what do you want TO DIE FOR?  Whether you like it or not,
>all of us gonna die anyway...  Wanna die for my country???

  I cannot help but say something about this.

  Falstaff, in King Henry the Fourth (part II), offered a bleak view
  regarding the matter of Honor in war. In his catechism, he expounds
  on the virtues of self-preservation over honorable death in a war.
  In effect, he was acting like a coward. Why wouldn't it be better
  to run, thus spake he. Of what is Honor? It is something intangible,
  that lives not with the person but only with the public perception
  of him. Who is to say that self-preservation is not an honorable
  thing to do? Honor is not a thing, neither can it be sold, nor bought;
  prosperity almost demands self-preservation. Comments, anyone?

--
                                                --Syed Shibli
                                                  +1 918 631 3257
                                                  sya@admin.keh.utulsa.edu


Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: fellow@natinst.com (Osbert Tan)
Subject: Re: Bad neighborhoods in Singapore
Organization: National Instruments, Austin, TX
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 15:21:10 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.231712.3325@ucsvc.ucs.unimelb.edu.au>, u3169709@ucsvc.ucs.unimelb.edu.au (Numero Uno) writes:
> eng20009@nusunix3.nus.sg (TAN GIM WEE):
> >
> > People worth respecting are called elders if they are older than
> > oneself, those who are not worth respecting are called 'lao jiao'
> > or old bird.
> 
> If he were your typical Singaporean, it won't be surprising if he'd
> called his elders "lan jiao".

 
 Hmm...are you suggesting that Tan Gim Wee should address you as that ?

-Osbert (patented artificial smiley)

-- 
                                     _ _
---------------------------------ooo--U--ooo------------------------------------
fellow@cs.utexas.edu  Standard disclaimer applies. My opinions are, simply mine.
fellow@natinst.com            Down with racism. Down with imperialism.  
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: nyd@nyx.cs.du.edu (Ng y[D)
Subject: Re: Hudud Laws
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 92 01:58:38 GMT

In article <8t2nb3tq@csv.warwick.ac.uk> espdx@warwick.ac.uk (Spider Man) writes:
>In article <r7znb35p@csv.warwick.ac.uk> espeg@warwick.ac.uk (Tham Kok Cheong) writes:
>>In article <1992Aug10.210910.27938@doug.cae.wisc.edu> beng@cae.wisc.edu (Beng Ting) writes:
>>>
>>>In article <1992Aug11.004452.19108@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> hquah@nyx.cs.du.edu (He-Man Quah) writes:
>>>>In article <1992Aug10.065811.15965@leela.cs.orst.edu> looi@jacobs.CS.ORST.EDU (Wan Looi) writes:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Can the Muslims *learn* how to live with other human beings
>>>>>without having to impose their ill-judged Islamic Laws on others?
>>>>>
>>>>>-looi
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Could anybody post what actually Hudud law stated.
>>>>
>>>>How about those evils who corrupt, swindle, fraud the public funds, 
>>>>do their hand need to be amputated ?
>>>>
>>>>To be honest, how many of us haven't had experienced of giving "kopi duit" to
>>>                                                                ^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>
>>>	You bribed the police??? Aiyah!!!
>>>	Yes! The hand should be amputated and the body dismembered!!^8) 
>>>
>>>
>>>Happy! Happy!
>>>Ting Beng Tak
>>>beng@cae.wisc.edu
>>
>>
>>	Are you sure?? If the corrupted officers' hand should be amputated,
>> then I should guess that half of the population in Malaysia will become
>> disable people!!!
>>
>>--
>>K C Tham
>
>Cibai Tham, Kaninohik, who ask you to send this posting,
>ask you to do the project you don't want,
> always say to us `seeliula,seeliula' Peter rovery will punish you.
>
>
>From spiderman : be ware of the spider.......
>
>--
>  ()                        _ _ _
>  /\            /          ' ) ) )
> /  )  _   o __/ _  __      / / / __.  ____
>/__/__/_)_<_(_/_</_/ (_    / ' (_(_/|_/ / <_
>     /
>    '
>
>             I l                  l l
>             I l        00        l l
>               Il--- (       )  --ll
>               I   (          )    l
>          --------(           )-----
>           ( ----- (        ))-------   )
>              ----- (      ))----    l
>              I    (  (   ))  )  l   l
>              I         V        l   l
>              I                  l   l
From: espeg@warwick.ac.uk (Tham Kok Cheong)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: Hudud Laws
Date: 15 Aug 92 22:46:29 GMT
Organization: Computing Services, Warwick University, UK

In article <10649867.3.713680949@eng2.eng.monash.edu.au> 10649867@eng2.eng.monash.edu.au (GIJSBERT CHOW) writes:
>In article <r7znb35p@csv.warwick.ac.uk> espeg@warwick.ac.uk (Tham Kok Cheong) writes:
>>From: espeg@warwick.ac.uk (Tham Kok Cheong)
>>Subject: Re: Hudud Laws
>>Date: 11 Aug 92 18:51:30 GMT
>>In article <1992Aug10.210910.27938@doug.cae.wisc.edu> beng@cae.wisc.edu (Beng Ting) writes:
>>>
>>>In article <1992Aug11.004452.19108@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> hquah@nyx.cs.du.edu (He-Man Quah) writes:
>>>>In article <1992Aug10.065811.15965@leela.cs.orst.edu> looi@jacobs.CS.ORST.EDU (Wan Looi) writes:
>>>>>>

>>>>How about those evils who corrupt, swindle, fraud the public funds, 
>>>>do their hand need to be amputated ?
>>>>
>>>>To be honest, how many of us haven't had experienced of giving "kopi duit" to
>>>                                                                ^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>
>>>	You bribed the police??? Aiyah!!!
>>>	Yes! The hand should be amputated and the body dismembered!!^8) 
>>>
>>>
>>>Happy! Happy!
>>>Ting Beng Tak
>>>beng@cae.wisc.edu
>>
>>
>>	Are you sure?? If the corrupted officers' hand should be amputated,
>> then I should guess that half of the population in Malaysia will become
>> disable people!!!
>>
>>--
>>K C Tham
>       We all know corruption is a problem in Malaysia.It takes two to 
>perform such acts. Therefore stop giving `duit-kopi' the next time you are 
>stopped by a police for commiting a traffic offence. Pay the fine. Bangsa 
>Tegas Negara Teguh. 
>G T Tan.

Hey, mate, how can you tell that I will be stopped by police in future ?
Such a good citizen as I, will never stop by police. So, jaga sikit, do
everything abiding to law, not commit a crime and pay the fine. Don't let 
us "yellow skin" lose their face. 

Spiderman, get lost Please ! Don't waste my valuable time!
From: lai@icbl.hw.ac.uk (Lai-Mui Ching)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: Hudud Laws
Date: 18 Aug 92 12:42:40 GMT
Organization: ICBL, Heriot-Watt University, Edinburgh

I think the general public must consider that when Hudud laws are implemented 
for a nation or state, will the be implications even if the government 
promised that non-Muslims are not under this law.

For instance, lets look at Kelantan.
Now it is an Islamic state (am I right?) ...well even if it has yet be one, 
the Hudud laws (as I know) have already been implemented.
Because of what the laws say, certain practices in the society...even 
lifestyle has to changed.
No women pictures in advertisement..petty it may seem but such act has 
implications. Fair enough if Muslim men are not to look at women uncovered 
faces...but not so for non-Muslims men! Am I right ? 
How about dress code for women in the public ? 
How about trade laws ? 

So long as the laws are implemented on a state or nation, EVERYONE, I'm 
afraid will be subjected to it. 
Unless it is spelt out that Hudud laws be implemented specifically on 
Muslims, non-Muslims will indirectly be affected.

Next, you asked the question about who elected the government...
I know you want the reply to be the people therefore it is reasonable to 
comply with those you elected....
But look, that does not reflect the non-Muslims' wishes...they are very 
clearly the minority....
Is it because one is of the minority group that he/she is neglected/ignored 
in his/her freedom or rights ? 
A lesson to be learnt......in S'pore (where you are now, Othman), looks 
after minority groups very well..... learn from us!

Lai Mui
 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: algebra@leland.Stanford.EDU (Leong Weng Ng)
Subject: Point to Ponder
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 12:20:06 GMT

Hi, I found the following quote by Aung Suu Kyi,
Nobel Peace Prize-winner, in the Reader's Digest
"Points To Ponder" column. It might interest some
of us.

	It is not power that corrupts but fear.
Fear of losing power corrupts those who wield it,
and fear of the scourge of power corrupts those 
who are subject to it.

               --Far Eastern Economic Review

Any thoughts on reading this?

Weng Leong
Stanford U.
From: ciar04@vaxa.strath.ac.uk
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: Asian is not Oriental --- by Anonymous
Date: 17 Aug 92 09:53:26 GMT
Organization: Strathclyde University VAX Cluster

In article <1992Aug16.150606.1@wombat.newcastle.edu.au>, c9110440@wombat.newcastle.edu.au (not any more) writes:

> As a side light, Oriental is used to describe people/things from the east,
> as Occidental is used to describe people/things from the west, just the same
> as Asian or European really...all four are 'white man' words.

In UK, it appears to me that Asian refers to the Indian/Pakistani community,
while Oriental refers to the Chinese community.

#----------------------------------#-------------------------------------------#
|  W.H.Watt                        #  JANET:                                   |
|  Dept. of Accounting & Finance   #           w.h.watt@uk.ac.strath.vaxa      |
|  University of Strathclyde       #  Rest of the World:                       |
|  Glasgow                         #           w.h.watt@vaxa.strath.ac.uk      |
|  United Kingdom                  #                                           |
#----------------------------------#-------------------------------------------#
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: algebra@leland.Stanford.EDU (Leong Weng Ng)
Subject: Re: Hudud Laws
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 12:06:13 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.030952.2721@microsoft.com> honkeatc@microsoft.com (Hon Keat Chan) writes:
>In article <1992Aug13.050416.8978@nuscc.nus.sg> polsak@nuscc.nus.sg (Suzaina Abdul Kadir (Ms)) writes:
>>
>>" Can Muslims learn how to live with others without
>>imposing their laws on them ? "
>>
>>The answer is YES.
>>
>>Non-muslims are a well protected group in an Islamic
>>state. There should be separate laws pertaining and
>>governing their actions. It would be rather ridiculous
>>that a non-muslim would have to abide by laws which
>>tsem from certain principles and philosophies that they
>>do not believe nor ascribe to. Islamic law does not
>>do that to the Dzimmis, which are the non-muslims.
>>
>>- Suzaina
>>
>>
>
>I understand this and I really believe this to be true.  However, I am
>(and I assume all others are) both an individual and a citizen of a
>nation.  Individually, I administer to my concience and my believes.
>As a citizen of a nation, I believe the nation must administer to all,
>independent of who their parents are, what colour they are attributed
>with, or whatever they choose to count towards their wealth, in the same
>manner, a basic set of laws according to the collective concience of
>the people of the nation and sometimes taking into account even the
>collective concience of all the peoples of the world when appropriate.
>Therefore, I cannot imagine a nation with two different set of laws,
>whichever is actually applicable to me personally, holding together
>as a nation for very long.  Indeed, I would like to read of references
>to cases in history where a society survived without undue stresses
>caused by having two sets of laws for people within its boundaries.
>If a modern society is vulnerable to instability if there exists more
>than one unit of currency within its borders, what is there to say that
>a society can live with two sets of laws?
>I am sorry if I appear skeptical, but sometimes a engineer has to ask
>not whether something will work, but rather, for how long will it work?

	I think Mr. Chan has raised a very pertinent point
here. Even if Hudud laws are implemented with the utmost
scrupulousness and fairness, I think it will still cause
a fracture in the identity, if nothing else, of the nation
of Malaysia. The potential for such a fracture is made even
more significant when we consider the fact that Malays are
constitutionally linked to Islam (a fact previously raised
by another netter). This could serve to widen any existing
gulf between Malaysian Malays and Malaysians of other races.

Weng Leong
Stanford U.

>
>Keat
>
>Fear not.  I speak for myself only.
>Obviously, Microsoft says nothing through me.


Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: ong@mcc.com (Kayliang Ong)
Subject: Re: Mahatir proposes National Service for Malaysians
Organization: MCC, Austin, TX
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 20:39:17 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.125050.105670@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> hra2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (Hibatur Rahman Ahmad) writes:
>Hi!  Guys, I think the idea of National Service for Malaysians is not bad at
>all.  We are living in a very dangerous world today and day by day, it becomes
>more dangerous.
>
>Hibatur Rahman Ahmad
>hra2@lehigh.edu
>
>p/s ask yourself, what do you want TO DIE FOR?  Whether you like it or not,
>all of us gonna die anyway...  Wanna die for my country???


I too agree that the world is getting more dangerous and that every citizens
of every nations, especially the smaller one, should be prepared for any
conflicts between countries. Smaller nations can not prepare for nuclear
warfare but they can prepare for conventional warfare as in the case of
Yugoslavia. In the case of Malaysia, only smaller regional conflicts are more
likely to occur. Thus, national service, say for 1 to 2 years, can
provide every Malaysians the basic preparations, as in the case of Singapore.

However, a national service only makes sense for every malaysians to
participate iff every person who joins the service are treated EQUALLY WITH NO
DISCRIMINATION since the basic motivation for joining the national service is
the pride for being a malaysia. However, I doubt an equal and fair system can
be set up for the national service in malaysia especially when we take into
the consideration that we have a political system that does not treat every
individual as a malaysian but based on the color of skin. Before we,
as malaysians, know how to trust each other and are able to accept 
the fact any one malaysian, be she or he a malay, chinese, indian etc., can
rightfully be our prime minister based on her or his capability, there is no
point talking about a national service because one will have to learn to give
away political power first before giving up military power.

Nevertheless, I am optimistic that such a day will come when malaysians think
of themselves as malaysia, that it is a place worth defending for and that one
will feel pround to join the national service. At the moment, I do not think
it is feasible and if we continue the current polarization, we are our own
enemy and we shall focus on how to defend self-destruction. National service
or not, it makes no difference.


KayLiang Ong
From: tloh@husc8.harvard.edu (Teck Loh)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: Hudud Laws
Date: 17 Aug 92 23:06:06 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc3.1992Aug17.190607.14826
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

In article <920816182153.21601087@VAX1.UTULSA.EDU> SSR48327@VAX1.UTULSA.EDU (Syed Shibli) writes:
>
>From the keyboard of Teck Loh, who writes:
>
>>In article <199208142135.AA07705@admin.keh.utulsa.edu> sya@admin.keh.utulsa.edu (Syed Shibli) writes:
>>>
>>>  It's difficult, if almost impossible, to eliminate bribery. You
>>>  can bride everyone from the Highest Judge to the lowst peon, and
>>>  yet everyone would still think that the problem doesn't exist. The
>>>  best solution would probably be genocide.
>>>
>>Since we may even able to bribe the highest judge, can we actually trust the
>>legal system in our country? 
>
>  Are you trying to bribe me for an answer? (: Just kidding.
>  The truth is, looking at the big picture, there is not much
>  any individual can do about their country's Judicial System.
>  Change would require some sort of collective effort on the part
>  of the "abused."
>
>>What happen if someone is found guilty and has
>>his/her hand "potong" and later found that he/she is innocent? Does this law
>>also apply to 12 year old kids? How does this law work? Does this law punishes
>>people who is corrupt or people who discriminate against other human beings?
>>It will be nice if someone can clarify.
>
>  I hope you can sustain this curiosity and read many references to
>  Islamic Law before asking questions like these on the network. Yes,
>  Islam has laws against discrimination, and yes, Islam prohibits
>  corruption. Twelve year old kids aren't adults, so they wouldn't be
>  tried as one. Your naivette astounds me. 
>
>-- 
>Syed Shibli                          | +1 918 631 3257 (work)
>505 South Gary, #14, Tulsa, OK 74104 | sya%admin@tusun2.mcs.utulsa.edu

 A lot of questions may sound stupid to you but not to the non-muslim. You
mentioned that Islam has laws against discrimination. However, I am dissapointed that none of my muslim fellows have raise the "Malay Priviledge Law" which
I definitely think that it is a discrimination law against the poor chinese
and the poor Indians. What do you think will be the punishment for this 
discrimination under the hadad law and for corruption, I don't know how many
of our government officers will have their hands "potong".  I think it will
be better if some of our muslim friends can tell us where we can a copy
of the so-called "hudud laws". 

By the way, thanks for some of the answers.

T-P Loh
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Othman Ahmad)
Subject: Re: US vs British university degree
Organization: Nanyang Technological University - Singapore
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 15:40:06 GMT

yeap@alg4.eecs.nwu.edu (Kok-Hoo Yeap) writes:
: >Who cares about which degree is more prestigious than other's!!!
: > [ stuff deleted ]
: 
: Yes I think discussions of which degree from which university
: is better is not interesting. We should not continue the
: discussion along this line.
: Aparently, the Malaysian government carries a different viewpoint
: IF what I said in my original posting were true.
: Notice that the difference directly affects one's salary 
: because it's derived from one's pay scale.
: 
: It would be nice if someone with inside knowledge of this matter
: can respond. Is it true ? If so, what's the reason ?
: What's the history of such policy ?
: Does similar rules applied to other government jobs ? 
Not true for engineering government posts. Both honours and general or US
degree wheter form Harvard, MIT or Campbride are treated the same. They all
start at the same starting salary.
	In the more prestigious PTD(?) that make up the PSD(public services
department) planners, honours degree means you can get the job. Salary wise,
the difference is only a few increments(not sure how many).
	If you get a certain credit rating from US you are now considered
the same as an honours british graduate or similar system in Malaysia like
UM. UTM uses credit rating.

--
Othman bin Ahmad, School of EEE,
Nanyang Technological University, Singapore 2263.
Internet Email: eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg
Bitnet Email: eoahmad@ntuvax.bitnet

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean