HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ata@hfsi.uucp (John Ata FSO)
Subject: Re: Amiga Future?!?y
Reply-To: ata@hfsi.UUCP (John Ata FSO)
Organization: HFSI, McLean VA.
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 14:15:52 GMT

In article <tony.712448396@ais.org> tony@ais.org (Tony Poole) writes:
>mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz) writes:
>
>>CBM has wonderful engineers and plenty of wasted R&D efforts of their own
>>(i.e. CDTV).  However, CBM lacks the ability to instill confidence in their
>>products in the marketplace without showing the kind of support that an
>
>I don't know about this.  You have to realize that readers of c.s.a.advocacy
>are a cynical bunch when it comes to Commodore.  You (I) may not have
>started out that way, but reading the BS here day in and day out tend to
>involuntarily make you that way. 
>
>I have been reading articles in this particular newsgroup *in earnest* now
>for about, oh, say 6-8 months (before that I'd pick one or two articles that
>hadn't been followed up to yet).  Prior to that 6 or 8 months, I didn't have
>a feeling of desperation for Amiga upgrades.  Frankly, I can't afford as
>much as some of you.  But that aside, I was seeing new Amiga products come
>out - be it third party or C= peripherals.  I saw the 3000.  I used a 3000.
>It was wonderful.  The OS was (is) great.  Improvements!  There were always
>things I *could* buy *if* I had the money (bills, kids, and all that).  I
>could get something better - I was never stagnate.  Of course there were
>certain things I could never afford.  Luckily, my employer could, so I got
>to try them out.  
>
>The average Amiga user (which I am - I'm no superuser, though
>my level of expertise is somewhat above most common computer users) has no
>*great* sense of urgency for a 68040 Amiga.  The same thing holds true for
>any platform.  Most 386 IBM users had no great sense of urgency to go out
>and upgrade to a 486 when the opportunity arose.  They run their word
>processors, played their games, and life kicks happily along.  What's this?
>A new Amiga model is out, the 3000.  They read Doug Barney's commentary on
>it, and a couple of reviews.  Boy!  That sounds great!  Someday maybe I'll
>be able to afford it (realizing it would have to drop below $200 for them to
>be able to afford it in the immediate future).  I'll save starting right now
>....where is that cookie jar?  
>
More common sense...
>-- 
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Tony Poole                       tony@umcc.ais.org * tony@irie.ais.org 
>Traverse City, MI USA          tony@cherry1.trv.mi.us * tony@cherry1.UUCP

Thanks Tony, I for one find it refreshing to hear someone talk *sanely* for
a change.
-- 
John G. Ata - Technical Consultant | Internet:     hfsi!ata@UUNET.UU.NET
HFS, Inc.		  VA20     |     UUCP:     uunet.uu.net!hfsi!ata
7900 Westpark Drive	 MS:601	   |    Voice:	(703) 827-6810
McLean, VA  22102	           |      FAX:	(703) 827-3729
From: mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Amigas are cool
Date: 28 Jul 92 04:57:12 GMT
Organization: Amiga makes it possible
X-NewsSoftware: GRn 1.16e (7/4/92) by Mike Schwartz & Michael B. Smith

In article <1992Jul27.140838.8012@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett) writes:
>    Besides, Inuition and graphics.library are limited to 8-bits for many of
> the same reasons that old MS-DOS and MAC programs will not run in a 32-bit
> environment.  Many of the calls in graphics.library are to routines like
> Write8Pixel and Read8Pixel; these routines use bytes, and not long-words, and
> cannot be adapted easily to graphics systems with more than 8 bitplanes.  About

Cannot be adapted easily?  WRONG.

> the only thing that Commodore can do is to add new routines like Write32Pixel
> and Read32Pixel that new programs can use, though this will not help old programs
> that use the old routines.

Who cares if it does not help old programs.  Old programs are OLD programs.  I'd
rather have a NEW program that calls Read32Pixel()...


--
Amiga programmer of: GRn, MailMinder, Budokan, Beyond Dark Castle, Dark Castle
Sega Genesis programmer of: Dick Tracy and Marble Madness.
Mike Schwartz  (ames!zorch!amiga0!mykes or mykes@amiga0.sf-bay.org)
1124 Fremont Ave.
Los Altos, CA 94024
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: haley@unixg.ubc.ca (Ross MacGregor)
Subject: Re: A4000 article
Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 03:22:07 GMT

In <Mike_Whalen.0ki7@agwbbs.new-orleans.LA.US> Mike_Whalen@agwbbs.new-orleans.LA.US (Mike Whalen) writes:

[to Skip on the great roomer] 
>  Plus, you are a coward by not putting your name on it and pinning it to a
>newspaper that already exists.

>  I suppose you won't mind if I just call them and tell them that you are
>using their name to spread lies? Maybe they won't mind? Who knows, though,
>eh?

Chill out there Mike!  It was no secret who wrote it.  Although he should
have known this might happen, there was no evil intent in the article.
I think it shows just how desperate the Amiga community is.
  
-- 
Ross MacGregor           |  These views are my own and can be considered 
haley@unixg.ubc.ca       |  absolute truth.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: bhenning@wimsey.bc.ca (Bill Henning)
Subject: Re: Atari Lynx and Gameboy
Organization: Wimsey 
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 02:26:19 GMT

Comparing a Nintendo Gameboy with an Atari Lynx is like comparing an
original IBM PC with a monochrome text display to an Amiga 3000 - no
comparison is possible. You have not played with a hand held game until
you play Warbirds with four players....

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: leavitt@cheshire.oxy.edu (Thomas VanNess Leavitt)
Subject: Re: I DID giev up on the Amiga!
Organization: Occidental College, Los Angeles, CA 90041 USA.
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 07:24:05 GMT

If you want to run Unix on a 3000, then buy a 386sx bridgeboard and
purchase Coherent 4.0 for $99.  Run all Sun Sparc compatible binaries.

Thom

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: torrie@cs.stanford.edu (Evan Torrie)
Subject: Re: I DID giev up on the Amiga!
Originator: torrie@Xenon.Stanford.EDU
Organization: CS Department, Stanford University, California, USA
Date: 22 Jul 92 06:25:26 GMT

gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block) writes:

>mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz) writes:
>: Would anyone else out there in AmigaLand like an Amiga laptop?  How about 2

>Yes.  I'd like a 68000-based laptop, if I could.

  Maybe you should just buy a Powerbook 100 Greg :-)

  $899 for a 4/40 version at Price Club.

Evan (who loves his PB100, even though nobody else does).
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Evan Torrie.  Stanford University, Class of 199?       torrie@cs.stanford.edu 
Embrace rationalism, reject superstition.           Break away from the past.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: haley@unixg.ubc.ca (Ross MacGregor)
Subject: Re: I DID giev up on the Amiga!
Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 06:01:51 GMT

In <1992Jul22.212801.6596@mpifr-bonn.mpg.de> mlelstv@speckled.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Michael van Elst) writes:

>In <BrsH1M.56L@news.udel.edu> don@chopin.udel.edu (Donald R Lloyd) writes:
>>     Personally, I'd _like_ to thinlk that the reason '040 cards have been
>>delayed is that CBM plans on putting the AA chipset onto their '040 card
>>for us 3000 owners :-).

>That sounds like a good idea.. an 040/33 with 256k cache, AA and 8MB chip
>memory. If not priced unreasonably that would be an item I would buy
>at once.

Wow, me too! Do you think it's too late for cbm.suggestions?
-- 
Ross MacGregor           |  These views are my own and can be considered 
haley@unixg.ubc.ca       |  absolute truth.
From: jprad@faatcrl.UUCP (Jack Radigan)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Well, Jerry Pournell says that there is a new amiga
Date: 28 Jul 92 14:40:58 GMT
Distribution: comp
Organization: FAA Technical Center, Atlantic City NJ

kuch@reed.edu (Jerry Kuch) writes:

>Did he mourn that one too?  I just remember the late spring, or early summer
>of either 1987 or 1986 when Big Kat, some horrifying old Ghoul Breathed CP/M
>Soul-less Drone Box finally blew a vacuum tube that he couldn't find a
>replacement for.  

  Hmm, the CompuPro may have been named Golum now that I think of it.

  Anyways, yes, that was the machine.  BTW, in it's day, the CompuPro was a
hell of a CP/M box.

>Apparently Big Kat was interned along with his 200 pound, 8" 60K hard sectored
>floppy drive.

  I think Big Kat was some massive 386 beast, but yes, the CompuPro did use
8" floppies.

>This seems highly probable.  I'm wondering if it's going to be the ultimately
>anti-climactic "Jerry Pournelle spills orange soda in the disk drive of the 30
>he just turned on for the first time and blames the manufacturer for it" stor.

  Dunno, he can get tedious with his never ending trials-and-tribulations-of-
being-at-the-center-of-the-computing-universe babble.

  I do give him credit for being able to side-step his ego once some straigtens
him out.  Unfortuantely, it often doesn't carry the same impact as his original
comments on something.

  And, unless he's getting into video now, I'd rather that he didn't get his
hands on an Amiga.  I just doesn't have the applications that would appeal to
him.  In effect, it's just a toy machine, a diversion for him.

  -jack-
From: barnett@ucbeh.san.uc.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Nitric oxide is it.
Date: 27 Jul 92 09:57:51 EST
Distribution: world
Organization: Univ. of Cincinnati

The chemical agent implicated in causing erections in males is in fact
Nitric Oxide (NOT nitrous oxide). This was discovered by Solomon Snider
at Johns Hopkins Medical School. Scientific American recently had an article
about NO as a neurotransmitter...

Eric Suchanek (posting from a friend's account with permission).

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block)
Subject: Re: Commodore and the Osborne Syndrome
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 21:52:08 GMT

mlelstv@specklec.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Michael van Elst) writes:
: As CD-RTOS is based in OS-9 it should do resource tracking (i.e. for
: memory allocation,open files and signals) all the time.
: 
: The overhead for resource tracking is neglible if done right. The only
: cost exists when a task closes resources itself or dies.

Right:  resource tracking wasn't the "thing" being tested here, MP
was.  RT was common to both OSes.  MP was added to RTOS/MP.

: Cost of memory protection depends on the CPU/MMU used. On the 68020/MMU
: you will see about 15-20% degradation because the MMU adds a waitstate
: and the MMU might to reload the TLB cache occasionally. On the 68030
: it is just the TLB, I expect a slowdown of no more than 3% if the memory
: system is reasonably fast.

Oh.  :)  Learn something new every day.  I had assumed that, like the
030's MMU, the 020 didn't have the waitstate...  Then again, the MMU
on the 020 is external, I suppose I should have thought that there'd
be some type of slowdown.

Wish we'd tried it with an 030...

: Maybe it was the 68070 chip ? Dunno what memory protection with its MMU
: does cost.

Who knows.  I think it's a full clock cycle, but I really don't know.
It's not something I remember often, because its mmu is so...
un-mmuish.  :)

: I wouldn't be so sure..

Eww.  No, I'm really not worried about memory protection.  I see no
point to it slowing down my system, and I've currently got no problems
with the current swatch of software I run.

: Must be some bad implementation then.. see above.

I don't think so.  Not on both.  The one for OS/9 he didn't even
write, and there was slowdown.

Note, this PROBABLY won't be apparent to applications that wait for
user input.  The tests we ran were purposefully processor-intensive,
using functions and stuff from real-world apps.  Our best test on OS/9
was from a renderer.

Greg

--
(: (: (: (: Have you overdosed on smileys today?  Why NOT!?! :) :) :) :) :)
(:"The person who said size doesn't matter was probably a very small man":)
(:	gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu			Gregory R. Block         :)
(: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
From: birjt@cc.newcastle.edu.au
Subject: Re: What does the Amiga lack?
Organization: University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 03:10:10 GMT

In article <14trakINN5ru@agate.berkeley.edu>, pete@plutonium.CChem.Berkeley.EDU (Pete Goodeve) writes:

[stuff gone]

> For example, the only Analog-to-Digital card I know for the Amiga is by
> ACDA, and I am not impressed.  Would you believe -- on a multitasking
> machine -- that it doesn't provide for interrupts?!  Doesn't have any DMA
> either of course.  Not too bad I suppose if you're doing single 25 microsec
> conversions every millisecond or slower, but you're kind of stuck if you
> want to chain a lot of conversions at top speed, or -- in the other
> direction -- if you want to use the on-board timers to keep a slow tick
> rate for the conversions.
> 
> ASDG's GPIB (IEEE 488) interface, on the other hand, looks pretty nice.
> Problem is, you probably have to write a control module for each instrument
> you connect this way, because they all have their own command protocol.
> (Not usually that big a job, but it does mean you can't plug and play...)
> 
>                                ---

On a related note, a friend of mine here built a zorroII board for one of the
brain research labs here, different department tho. This board had 32 A-D
converters operating in parallel and put the values into memmory ( I am not up
on hardware so this may seem a bit vague), it was built to do this once a
millisecond. Last time I was talking to him he said that he would release the
design when it was finished, this was about 4 month ago. If anybody is
interested I will see him and get more info or if he is willing give his E-mail
address and people can talk directly.

Have fun,
Russell

Russell Tayler, Biology Dept, Uni of Newcastle, OZ 
          BIRJT@cc.newcastle.edu.au
          <Proof reading is for wimps>


> 
>                                         -- Pete --
> 
> 
> ============================================================================
> The above statements and opinions are those of the author, who is not
> speaking for the University of California in any way.
> ============================================================================
>
From: TomK@cup.portal.com (Tom R Krotchko)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Obituary [Amiga's] in Silicon Valley newspaper
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 16:45:51 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

In case anyone's interested, the Washington Post reprinted the
article in the Monday business section (that's the big business section
for the week).

How ironic that a few years back, the only coverage the Amiga received
was by Brit Hume in his computer column in the Post. And now, an
article saying "the Amiga is dead".

I told my local dealer he should sent he Post a letter of thank you
for making sure his sales go even lower than they are.
From: jamiller@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Mere Mortals could never comprehend the C='s plan...
Date: 29 Jul 92 21:51:12 CDT
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

It should be made clear by everyone posting to whom they refer when
they complain about "Commodore."  I have no complaint for the many
programers, engineers, and all the other people involved with the
production of the Amiga.  However, how long did it take to develop
2.04, cdtv, & the ECS for example?  How long did it take to get
released?  The CDTV adaptor for the 500's is still not released.  WHY?
I have an answer.

The C= management does not value any of these technologies enough to
SPEND the money required staff and supply projects like this.  We can
have only respect for the products and people of the Amiga line, and
disdain for the management whose poor decision making obviously
doesn't prove benefical for the promotion of the Amiga.

Who was saying I'm not qualified to run a Billion dollar company.
Yea, you're probably right.  I guess I should just sit back and let a
company with adequate capital squander ever opportunity they are
presented with for success.  Yea, you're probably right.  I would had
have approached the educational market in a placid coma.  I would have
disbanded successful programs like support for user's groups and
Student Representatives.  Yea, and not to mention expecting all my
customer base to advertise for me.  Yea, these are great ideas that a
mere mortal could never comprehend.
-- 
jamiller@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
James Miller

_chicchai .sig no ho ga ichiban iin janai ka_
From: mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Commodore's Reply
Date: 31 Jul 92 08:51:06 GMT
Organization: Amiga makes it possible
X-NewsSoftware: GRn 1.16f (beta) by Mike Schwartz & Michael B. Smith

In article <mac1.712538752@Ra.MsState.Edu> mac1@Ra.MsState.Edu (Mubashir Cheema) writes:
> gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block) writes:
>
> >mac1@Ra.MsState.Edu (Mubashir Cheema) writes:
> >:   Now honestly how many people disagree and really find it
> >:   MOST EXCITING time for an Amigan ?
>
> >A lot of users, and a WHOLE LOT of developers.
>
> >Greg
>
>
>
>   Hi Greg,
>            I am a developer myself but I think maybe I am missing
>   something.
>

Hi Greg,
	I am a developer, too, and I must be missing something, too.
What is exciting about watching your favorite machine go down in
flames?

>
> Mubashir.
>
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> Mubashir Cheema: Computer Engineering student at Mississippi State University.
> Amiga User and Star Trek Fan (me too :)
> I can be reached at Fax/phone : (601) 324-7324
> Internet : mac1@ra.msstate.edu          Bitnet   : mac1@msstate.bitnet
> US mail  : PO Box 4887, MSU             UPS/FedEx: 144 College Station Appts
>            MS State, MS 39762-4887                 Starkville, MS 39759
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

--
Amiga programmer of: GRn, MailMinder, Budokan, Beyond Dark Castle, Dark Castle
Sega Genesis programmer of: Dick Tracy and Marble Madness.
Mike Schwartz  (ames!zorch!amiga0!mykes or mykes@amiga0.sf-bay.org)
1124 Fremont Ave.
Los Altos, CA 94024
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: gerald@seas.gwu.edu (Gerald G. Washington)
Subject: Re: I am giving up on the Amiga
Organization: George Washington University
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 00:09:46 GMT

pdb059@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov (Paul Bartholomew) writes:
>al158305@academ01.mty.itesm.mx (Gustavo Cordova Avila) writes:
>>    COMPARE APPLES TO APPLES!!!
>
>This is an old, old argument on this newsgroup.  My contention is that we
>should compare systems by performance, capabilities, *and* price.  Yes, the
>386 is newer than the 68000 and has more capabilities.  On the other hand,
>judging from what I've heard, comparably equipped A500 and 386 clones are
>roughly equivalent in price and can be legitimately compared to one another.

Okay, so the A500 and 386 system have roughly the same price.  That meets
one of your comparison criteria.  They do not have roughly the same perform-
ance or capabilities.  You may as well compare 386 systems to component
stereo systems.

-- Gerald
From: jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: Re: I am giving up on the Amiga
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 21:29:41 GMT
X-Posted-From: connection.prospect.com
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

ata@hfsi.UUCP (John Ata FSO) writes:
>
>What functionality/usefulness does OS/2 posess that AmigaDOS 2.04 does
>not?  I am talking about the operating system here, not what runs on top
>of it.  Also please stay clear of VM/non-VM issues as there are clearly
>tradeoffs as to which approach is desired.  The same can be said for
>memory protection as well.
>

Sure, John, exclude OS/2's superior features from the discussion, and
AmigaDOS starts to look pretty powerful indeed!  Get serious -- there
are *no* OS features which don't involve tradeoffs, and the usefulness
of *all* of them can be debated away, including that of pre-emptive
multitasking and GUI's.  There are people who'll tell you that DOS is
the most useful OS because it allows their homebrew data acquisition card
and software to run at the highest rate possible on the machine, doesn't
allow nasty other processes to interrupt its operation, consumes less than
40K RAM, and doesn't care where in extended memory the card maps its
hardware registers.  So I hope you don't mind me counting VM, MP, and
resource tracking in OS/2's favor.  After all, they are useful to me.

>
>Other than these issues, OS/2 has better
>capabilities and functionality than AmigaDOS 2.04 because:___________
>

... It has virtual memory.
... It has memory protection.
... It has resource tracking.
... It has device-independent graphics.
... It has a real graphics library; one that supports splines, paths, etc.
... It has an object-oriented GUI which is more powerful than Workbench.
... It has built-in support for DOS executables.
... It has built-in support for Windows executables.
... It has a better file system (HPFS).

Before you set your flamethrower to "Extra Crispy", let me say now that 
the usefulness of all the items listed above is *IMHO*.

>
>John G. Ata                     | Internet:     hfsi!ata@UUNET.UU.NET
>
--
+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
| Jerry J. Shekhel  | Molecular Simulations | Time just fades the pages      |
| Drummers do it... | Inc.  Waltham, MA USA | in my book of memories.        |
|    ... In rhythm! |     (617) 890-2888    |              -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
|           ...! [ princeton mit-eddie bu sunne ] !polygen!jerry             |
|                            jerry@polygen.com                               |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: kontos@clipper.ingr.com (Thorne Kontos)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Windows NT (alpha) is out
Keywords: OS/2 from IBM doesn't hold a candle to this product
Date: 27 Jul 92 14:54:49 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Intergraph Advanced Processor Division - Palo Alto, CA

Once again, PC droids will be forced to make a choice...
And the answer will come from their pocketbooks.

But I can say this (Corporate policy naturally prevents me from saying
more), for all of those people that are currently advocating OS/2 as
the end-all be-all operating system, my only suggestion to you is
dump it now. I've seen Windows NT and OS/2 is just plain lame in
comparison.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: craigs@garfield.cs.mun.ca (Stace)
Subject: I'm a bit scared...
Summary: Am I left high and dry?
Keywords: Support commodore a3000 ecs
Organization: CS Dept., Memorial University of Newfoundland
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 05:57:22 GMT

I'm a bit concerned here.  I just sank a sizeable amount of money into an 
A2000HD (upgraded frommy lowly A1000).

Since I now own an Amiga capable of actually doing stuff, I started reading
this group, as well as the other Amy groups.  

From the look of postings here, Commodore's still doing its gangbusters job
of supporting the computer.  If I wasn't already hooked, I don't know if I'd
have bought the 2000, and instead gone for a 486 fully loaded system.

To cut to the chase, am I going to be left high and dry with no support?  I
was bitten once (with the abandoned 1000), and I don't care to own yet another
obsolete machine.

->Stace<-
-- 
                   ______   ______   ______   ______   ______
      _____\      /_____      /     /_____/  /        /_____      /_____
           /     ______/     /     /     /  /_____   /_____       \
                        craigs@garfield.cs.mun.ca 
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.misc