From: kbos@carina.unm.edu (Kurt Bose "of Biscayzee")
Subject: Re: Pitchers who hit (again)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 03:07:32 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

In article <69TP02Kk1f8M01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> msw10@nepenthe.as writes:
>I went to the Giants and Mets game last night at Candlestick. Dwight Gooden
>was pitching, and when he first came to bat I noticed that he is hitting .280.
>It seems everytime I watch Gooden he is hitting .260-.280. Later in the game,
>Dr. K pulled a pitch over the left field fence. Yet Gooden was still #9 in the
>batting order. My question is, why are pitchers
>always batted last? The Mets had SS Dick Schofield, who was hitting .205 hitting
>second. It seems to me like it would make a lot more sense to bat a pitcher who
>has shown he can *consistently* hit above .250 the same place you would bat
>any other player who bats >.250. The only reasons I could think of were that
>1) everyday players are viewed as too neurotic to be moved from their normal
>position in the batting order every 5th day (which maybe explains why the Giants
>can't hit as Roger Craig rarely sticks with one lineup this year) or 2) it's
>just another stupid tradition managers follow without thinking about.
>
>Any Comments?
>
Yeah, you don't see Gooden pitch very often.  Seriously.  Your "consistent .250
hitter"  has a career average of .189 entering 1992, with a career high of .238
last year, at least according to the books.  As for why Dick Schofield bats
ahead of "Joltin" Doc Gooden, it might (mind you, might) have something to do
with the fact that Schofield is Frank Thomas to Gooden's...well,...Gooden's Dick
Schofield.

As for your "reasons" for batting pitchers ninth, add a new one:  3) Pitchers
do not hit well.  I've already explained this once (a couple of months ago),
but since lots of new people are posting (or are resuming their postings), I
suppose it's time to re-iterate.

-Pitchers now hit about half to 60% as well as non-pitchers.
-They've been getting worse at it throughout the century.
-The DH has prevailed most to all other places in organized baseball.  It is
 possible for pitchers to go up to the plate in San Diego now never having 
 batted since high school.
-The at-bats pitchers in NL DO get in the minors are so few and far between that
 they can't get into any kind of a hitting groove.
-Yeah, sure, a pitcher is going to get to the majors because of his hitting. Any
 pitchers that show significant batting prowess will be quickly weaned from the
 position, usually in low A ball.  Even Don Robinson was once considered a 
 candidate for a switch to the outfield.
-The DH will never die.  Repeat.  The DH will never die.  It would be the most 
 fundamentally stupid decision in the history of the game.  I'm exaggerating,
 but not a lot.  The DH allows teams that use it to develop their players, both
 by getting an extra position player crucial plate appearances to develop, and
 by relieving pitchers of the need to spend valuable time in the batting cage
 that is better used to learn their pitching craft.  Looking at the last couple
 of drafts, it appears that pitchers drafted into AL systems advance quicker
 than those in the NL, except for the Astros, but then, one suspects that the
 Astros' youth movement might have a _bit_ to do with that.  Even Kyle Abbott
 and Denny Neagle, two NL pitchers drafted in 1989, spent their minor league
 apprenticeship with AL teams.
-As for pinch hitters, even they hit 40 points less than DHs.  The "strategy"
 afforded by the sac bunt is formed from neccessity, not choice.  What good is
 the "strategic" decision for Cone to bunt Schofield over if that's what the
 defense is expecting??  Mr. .167 isn't exactly the best candidate to swing 
 away.  
-Look, pitchers as a whole hit only slightly less than .170 at his point.  The
 best ones hit 25 points or so higher than that.  _This_ is fun??  Sorry.  No.
 But thank you for playing, anyway.  Baseball, like everything else, has been
 in a constant shift towards the specialized.  Defending the abolishment of 
 the DH on the grounds that it reduces the player is exactly like defending
 the release of Eck, Olson, Henke, Smith, Wetteland, and Rollie Fingers because
 they just can't hurl complete games.  The designated hitter is an option, and
 nothing more.  That it is universally accepted where it's allowed should 
 answer the question itself as to whether it's a better option.


Now, getting back to the issue of pitchers hitting.  They can't.  Not, at least,
as well as the #8 hitter in the lineup.  And that, pure and simple, is the 
reason they hit ninth.  You will not find any pitcher in the league who is
demonstrably better than the hitters before them, especially since the
retirements of Rick Wise and Ken Brett.

-- 
Kurt Bose (as in Daisy, not Rose) - kbos@carina.unm.edu - I'm not the AntiChrist
I AM the AntiWoofer. - Junior Stathead{tm} - I'm a shutmouthed, selfless idiot!!
Latest Attempted Compiler of the R.S.BB FAQ - Now Accepting Submissions...(hint)
Have you hugged a Dan Gladden fan today? - Dave Rossing : .531/54/214 at Denver!