From: wolfone@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Patrick Chester)
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: Re: Russia's OPERATIONAL Starwars Defense System
Date: 5 Oct 92 08:25:47 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

Those that read sci.military will remember this guy. I sent a response but
it never was posted. Too bad this guy posted to an unmoderated newsgroup.
Heh heh. :> Now I can refine my original post and make sure he sees it.
Note:This flame contains a few in-jokes about japanese anime and other science
fiction stories. Anyone not familiar with one or both will be confused. Sorry.
If it's marked w/a ")" I didn't write it.

And now for something Completely Different

*IT'S*----
In article <1992Sep29.191436.1427@cnsvax.uwec.edu> mcelwre@cnsvax.uwec.edu writes:
)
)          
)
)                 RUSSIA'S OPERATIONAL STAR WARS DEFENSE SYSTEM
Or: How Japanimation Imitates Real Life


)          
)               In February 1992, Russian President Boris Yeltsin 
)          proposed to the United States and the United Nations a global 
)          defense shield (with "Star Wars"-type weapons) BASED ON 
)          RUSSIAN TECHNOLOGY. 
I don't remember this part too well, but have heard something to that effect.

)          
)               Some people might wonder what the "backward" Russians 
)          could possibly have that would be of value for the S.D.I. 
)          research and development program. 
He is right about one thing (and only one other thing in this article.) 
Underestimating Russian technology is unwise. They go for devices they can
crank out quickly, especially with their military equipment. We build works
of art and they build workhorses. But, this SDI system is a bit far-fetched.
Continuing.......
)          
)               The little-known TRUTH is that the Russians started 
)          deploying an OPERATIONAL "Star Wars" defense system in 
)          September 1977, and it has greatly grown and improved since 
)          that time.  It is a SPACE TRIAD built around CHARGED-PARTICLE 
)          BEAM and NEUTRON PARTICLE BEAM WEAPONS. 
What? No Wave Motion Gun? Awww.....
Do any of you NOTICE how the author seems to use words in ALL CAPS like they
were going out of style? It seems to be a BLATANT attempt on the author's part
to HYPE up the SEVERITY of the situation and SHOCK the reader into believing 
it. LUCKILY, I think people are smarter than that. ALSO, isn't this form of
text supposed to represent SHOUTING on the net? If so, then imagine Robert
here standing in front of you YELLING his position in your face like a DRUNKEN
boor and expecting you to IMMEDIATELY believe him. NOTE that I would NEVER think
of TRYING such a thing. ;>
)          
)               In this article I will describe the Russian system as it 
)          developed from 1977 to 1983, and give several examples of how 
)          it was used during that period.  But first I will try to 
)          convince readers of the credibility of my main source of 
)          information about it.
Good luck, you'll need it. What I've seen so far has not impressed me.
)          
)               My main source is articles published in a weekly 
)          legislative newspaper, WISCONSIN REPORT (WR), of Brookfield, 
)          Wisconsin, (P.O. Box 45, zip 53005), written by the late Dr. 
)          Peter David Beter, a well-respected Washington, DC attorney, 
)          Doctor of Jurisprudence, and expert and consultant in 
)          international law, finance, and intelligence, who received 
)          much of his information from associates in the CIA and other 
Yeah. Sounds reputable to me. A CIA lawyer. Total personification of integrity.
)          intelligence groups of other countries who disapproved of 
)          many of the things happening or being planned behind the 
)          scenes.  They believed that at least limited public exposure 
)          might delay and ultimately prevent the worst of those things, 
)          such as NUCLEAR WAR and NATIONAL DICTATORSHIP, from taking 
)          place. 
Surprised these behind the scenes rulers did not try and silence anyone. Could
they do that? Sure! All you have to so is arrange a few tragedies.....
)          
)               Dr. Beter started appearing on local radio and TV talk 
)          shows, but soon found himself being BANNED from them, as a 
)          result of government THREATS to cancel broadcast licenses.  
Oh dear. Do you have proof? Such as letters from the FCC threatening to
cancel their license?
)          So he started producing monthly one-hour cassette tapes and 
)          sending them to a growing list of subscribers.  From June 21, 
)          1975 until November 3, 1982 he recorded eighty "Dr. Beter 
)          Audio Letters" plus eight "Audio Books" and three special 
)          topic tapes.  On September 1, 1977 Wisconsin Report started 
)          publishing transcripts of those tapes. 
)          
)               Based on information from his sources, Dr. Beter 
)          PREDICTED the bombing of the Marines in Beirut A FULL YEAR 
)          BEFORE IT HAPPENED, WARNING that the U.S. Pentagon and the 
)          Israeli Mossad were CONSPIRING TO DELIBERATELY ARRANGE IT in 
)          order to try to get Americans angry at the Arabs and generate 
)          public support for PLANNED military action against them.  He 
Just can't trust Israelis can you? Come on Mossad is good, but not that 
omnipotent. They only think they are.
)          reported the impending assassination of Anwar Saddat of Egypt 
)          SIX DAYS BEFORE IT HAPPENED.  And Dr. Beter predicted what he 
So? Nostrodamus was CENTURIES early. ;>
)          called the "retirement" of Leonid Brezhnev one week before 
)          Brezhnev officially "died" (note that the word "retirement" 
)          was used for the TERMINATION OF REPLICANTS in the 1982 movie 
)          "Blade Runner"), and his quick replacement with Andropov 
Brezhnev was....was a .....a REPLICANT?! Sorry, couldn't resist. Why bring
in a science fiction reference. Though your story would make a good pulp
novel.
)          which occurred only three days after the "death" of Brezhnev, 
)          to the surprise of all government and media analysts.  
)          Subscription application and renewal forms for Dr. Beter's 
)          tapes would usually say, "Subscribe to the Dr. Beter Audio 
)          Letter and watch the news start making sense." 
Probably just government subliminal programming tapes cleverly disguised as
subversive media. Tricky, ain't them Feds?
)          
)
)
)          RUSSIA'S SPACE TRIAD OF STAR WARS WEAPONS

Or: "Say, isn't that the Yamato flying out there?"
)          
)               In September 1977 the Russians started launching MANNED 
)          killer satellites, called "COSMOS INTERCEPTORS", armed with 
)          CHARGED-PARTICLE BEAM weapons, into earth orbit, (12-15-77 
)          WR). By April 1978 there were about THREE DOZEN of them, and 
)          they had FINISHED DESTROYING all American spy and early 
)          warning satellites, (5-18-78 WR). 
But what about our Thor satellites? Did they get them or did each Soviet ICBM 
silo get a titanium-depleted uranium crowbar dropped down the shafts from 
orbit?(The answer is no to both since Thor satellites exist only in fiction--
like most of this article.) Why didn't the Russians also take down our military
comsats while they were at it? Very unsound strategy since our forces would
have gone to immediate alert and a launch may or may not have been planned in
response to being blinded. I mean, if all those satellites went out all in 
short order under unknown circumstances it would not take a great leap of logic
to figure out that our strongest opponent was most likely responsible. Unless
aliens did it. ;>
)          
)               On September 27, 1977, in what Dr. Beter called "THE 
)          BATTLE OF THE HARVEST MOON", a Cosmos Interceptor in Earth 
)          orbit used a NEUTRON-PARTICLE BEAM to wipe out a secret 
)          American laser-beam base nearing operational status in 
)          Copernicus Crater on the Moon, (11-3-77 WR).  The Russians 
)          quickly deployed their own military bases on the Moon, the 
)          second leg of their space triad, starting on October 4, 1977, 
)          with seven EXTREMELY POWERFUL charged-particle beam weapons 
)          BASES on the near side of the Moon and three support bases on 
)          the far side, (2-9-78 WR). 
THANK GOD!! They missed our planet bomb launcher on Pluto. And the secret
super-dimensional fortress project we were building w/the French on the island
of Macross. You know, the one with the VERY EXTREMELY POWERFUL beam cannon 
(the power level is so high it *must* be shouted.) Good thing we transfered
the RX-78 prototype out of the Anaheim Electronics Lab at the base, too. Else,
the Russians would have our most powerful Mobile Suit. Well it's safe at
Jaburo now. ;>

Seriously, why put a "laser beam base" on the Moon? It's too far away for any
laser to fire at moving objects like ICBMs moving in orbit or suborbital arcs.
380,000 km=approx. 1 light second travel time from the Moon to anything on or
above the Earth. Nevermind the diffraction of the laser as it travels that 
distance distance AND the absorption effects of the atmosphere when shooting
at surface targets. Very illogical strategy. Unless the base was point defense
for something more plausible like a mass driver to shoot rocks at targets on
Earth. But since you didn't claim that in your original post don't suddenly
post another article saying we have a moon base with rock launchers. I will
get unhappy.

It would be extremely helpfull if you would give figures in joules and watts
instead of vague descriptions like EXTREMELY POWERFUL. You have a B.S. in 
Physics. Surely you could easily give figures for the beam weapons. Most
of the people who read this newsgroup know some basic physics. We can even
*look up definitions* if we don't know. Either provide some figures or go
write some pulp space operas.

Better yet, read some good science fiction first. Like Heinlein, Niven, Clarke
and so on. You might find that their stories and your stories match up a bit.
You would be amazed. Unless you did get this idea from fiction. Plagarizer! ;>

)          
)               The first test of the Moon base weapons occurred on 
)          November 19, 1977, ironically at about the same time as the 
)          release of the first "Star Wars" movie with its "death star" 
I thought Darth Vader had a strange accent.
Did you get the idea for the particle beam from that movie?
)          weapon.  The Russians were aiming at the eye of a cyclone 
)          near India.  But they miscalculated the deflection of the 
)          beam by the Earth's magnetic field, and the beam struck the 
)          ocean too close to the shore causing a TIDAL WAVE that killed 
)          many people, (2-9-78 WR).  A blast of charged-particle beams 
)          from two or more of the Russian Moon bases fired in quick 
)          succession would create the DESTRUCTIVE EFFECT OF A HYDROGEN 
)          BOMB on its target. 
Oh give me a break. No particle beam can penetrate the atmosphere w/o losing
a lot of power. Not without more energy than we can use right now (talking
gigawatts and up here.) Even if you did spend such a large amount of power to
penetrate the atmosphere, you wouldn't miss the cyclone because neutrons are
not deflected by magnetic fields. You also would not cause a tidal wave. You
might screw up the cyclone badly. Add to that the stupidity of firing from the
moon and you have a very tall tale indeed. This isn't a joke is it?

It would have nowhere near the destructive effects of an H-bomb. You can't 
get the huge amount of energy that a fusion explosion makes pumped into a 
small area fast enough with a beam. Check the energy emitted by the beam w/the
energy of a fusion explosion and....oh yeah, you didn't provide stats for the
beam. Guess I'll have to believe you are exagerating again. That annoys me.
)          
)               The third leg of Russia's triad of space weapons is the 
)          "COSMOSPHERES".  The first-generation Cosmospheres were 
)          weapons platforms that were ELECTRO-GRAVITIC (could hover 
)          against gravity), ATOMIC POWERED, horizontally positioned by 
Can't you just say "grav pods" like all the other sci-fi writers do?
Sure you can! G-rav P-o-d-s. ;>
Though I don't think current physics has found proof of anti-gravity yet.
Anyone else want to comment? You've had your turn McElwaine.
)          rocket thrusters, somehow invisible to radar beyond about 40 
)          miles (perhaps from a radar-absorbing coating), armed with 
They're invisible because they use Minovski particles, right?
Knew this was sounding familiar.
)          CHARGED-PARTICLE BEAM weapons (at least a hundred times less 
)          powerful than those in the Moon bases), equipped with 
)          "PSYCHO-ENERGETIC RANGE FINDING" (PRF) which tunes in to the 
)          actual ATOMIC SIGNATURE of a target or object and canNOT be 
Gotta be Minovski particles. Why would they build a psychom?
That's a sensor device that uses brainwaves of a psion for detecting objects
like radar does. Well sort of. Not jammed by Minovski particles.
)          jammed, and some of them were also armed with microwave 
)          BRAIN-SCRAMBLING equipment. 
STOP IT!! YOU ARE HURTING MY BRAIN!! AUUUUUUUUUUGH!!! ;>
)          
)               In late 1977 and early 1978, there was a strange rash of 
)          giant AIR BOOMS along the east coast of the United States and 
)          elsewhere.  These air booms were NEVER satisfactorily 
)          explained, by either the government, the scientific 
)          establishment, or the news media.  They could NOT be 
)          positively identified with any particular Super Sonic 
)          Transport plane (SST) or other aircraft, and indeed they were 
Actually it was our Archangel-class cruisers launching to engage those 
"Cosmospheres" and the Russian moonbase. The booms were the throbbing of their
Orion pulse engines (i.e. the nukes going off.)
Either that or it was some test rocks flung from the mass driver on the Moon
that you failed to mention. The rocks were to small to reach the surface but
made a lot of noise before vaporizing completely. See? I can make up a better
story. ;>
)          MUCH LOUDER than aircraft sonic booms.  The giant airbooms 
)          were actually caused by Russian Cosmospheres firing CHARGED-
)          PARTICLE BEAMS down into the atmosphere in a DEFOCUSED MODE 
Come on. Defocused mode? The beams wouldn't get far at full power. See above.

)          (spread out) for the purpose of announcing their presence to 
)          the WAR-MONGERS in the United States Pentagon, (2-9-78 WR). 
And I suppose all the Russian actions you describe above were done for world
peace? Just to protect the world from us ungodly Americans, no doubt. Yep. 
Gotta be it. I think we have a glimpse of your world view Robert. Of course,
the Pentagon *does* have a bunch of weenies. As well as some diamonds hidden
in the manure.
)          
)
)               The main purpose of any "Star Wars" defense system is to 
)          protect a country against nuclear attack.  During the weekend 
<gasp>!! My heart! A *second* factual piece of data! Help! 911! 911!

)          of January 20, 1980, Russian Cosmospheres accomplished such a 
)          mission.  A NUCLEAR FIRST STRIKE against Russia by the then 
)          BOLSHEVIK-CONTROLLED United States was being started with a 
Historical note: The Bolsheviks were the communist group that Lenin and Co.  
were part of. They later formed the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics and
were responsible for untold numbers of deaths in their country. This was
through the Gulags, famine, etc. that would require a major paper to briefly
catalog. Anyway, you are saying that the Communists had taken over our 
government by then without telling us? Then launched an attack on their 
homeland? How *rude*!! ;> 
)          total of 82 special secret aircraft that can sneak up to a 
)          country's shoreline under water, surface, change 
)          configuration, take off, and fly at treetop level to their 
Why not use ICBMs? Even with Cosmospheres, some might get through. Or so
SDI critics claim..
Anyone else want to comment on these "special secret aircraft?" (Shh....)  
Then insert your security clearance, Citizen. Serve the Computer!
)          targets.  Dr. Beter describes part of the action in his Audio 
)          Letter #53, recorded on January 21, 1980: "At that point the 
)          real action got under way, in the Caspian Sea and off 
)          northern Norway.  The Subcraft, with Israeli pilots, were on 
Excuise me, my BS detector just overloaded. Gotta clean it.
Did you pick the Israelis because of reputation or spite?
)          their way.  They were traveling under water on the first legs 
)          of their attack missions.... 
I know this craft. It was a G.I. Joe toy. It was called the Sharc or something.

This get's really entertaining. I'll add some embellishments.
)          
)          "Late Saturday night, Washington time, a coded signal was 
)          flashed to the Subcraft to continue as planned.  By that 
)          time, the northern contingent of Subcraft were in the White 
)          Sea.  The southern contingent had reached the north end of 
)          the Caspian Sea.  It was already daylight, Sunday morning, 
)          the 20th, for the Subcraft contingents.  Their orders were to 
)          wait out the day under water, out of sight; then, after 
)          nightfall, they were to continue their steady approach to get 
)          close to their targets.  The Subcraft were maintaining strict 
)          radio silence.  They were also deep enough under water to be 
)          invisible from the air to either the eye or radar, yet they 
)          were also hugging the shoreline in water too shallow for 
)          Russian sonar to pick them up.  And their infrared signatures 
)          were negligible as the result of extensive development.  In 
)          short, by the standards of Western technology, they were 
)          undetectable.  But in AUDIO LETTER No. 42 I revealed Russia's 
)          master secret weapon.  It is called "Psycho-energetic Range 
MASTER SECRET WEAPON?! This must be a joke.
)          Finding" or PRF.  It is unlike sonar and similar techniques.  
)          PRF tunes in to the actual atomic signature of a target, and 
)          there is no method known by which PRF can be jammed. 
"COMRADE!!! I seeeeeeeeeee yooooooooouuuuuuuuu!!!"
Drat. Could've sworn we were invisible.
We're INVINCIBLE!
"You're loonies." 

Meanwhile up in space......
 
)          
)               "By deploying their Navy to the Arabian Sea, the 
)          Russians are pretending to be fooled by the Bolshevik 
)          distraction with the aircraft carriers.  In this way they 
Oh drat. The Russians are just too clever for us. <sob>
No fair. 
)          encouraged the Bolsheviks to launch the Subcraft toward their 
)          targets.  They waited until the Subcraft were far away from 
)          their bases and out of sight of the Bolsheviks, who are 
I still don't believe you are calling our side Bolsheviks, Robert.
)          directing the American first-strike operation.  But the whole 
)          time they were being tracked by Cosmospheres overhead using 
)          PRF, and shortly after 1:00 A.M. yesterday morning Eastern 
)          Standard Time the Cosmospheres began firing their Charged 
)          Particle Beam Weapons.  There were 10 Subcraft in the White 
)          Sea.  Each disappeared in a blinding blue white water spout 
)          of steam, smoke, and fire.  In the north end of the Caspian 
Nothing happened to them because the beams couldn't reach them.
Told ya we were INVINCIBLE!
Oh shut up.
)          there were 19 Subcraft--they, too, met the same fate.", (2-7-
)          80 WR). 
Suddenly, Cosmosphere after Cosmosphere blew up as our RX-78 Suits launched
from their Archangel motherships. The Russian Moonbase was unable to act since
they had followed the advice of a young time traveler from the 90's who,
despite having two degrees in sciences, cluelessly advised the Russians to 
place their weapons where they couldn't support the Cosmospheres: 380,000 km
away where the NB cannons were out of range. The base was destroyed by two
Archangels firing kinetic energy weapons, which the particle beams had 
troubles stopping. They were helped by the Japanese space battleship Yamato
(code-named ARGO for this mission ;>) Generic pop music played over everyone's
communications and general confusion reigned; assisted somewhat by major chaos.
It was messy. Admiral Heinlein occupied what was left of the moonbase and 
a new mass driver was constructed. Okay, I admit it. I can't improve this 
tale. 
)          
)               The 3rd-generation Russian JUMBO COSMOSPHERES were first 
)          deployed in April 1981, in parallel with the first U.S. Space 
)          Shuttle mission.  They significantly interfered with that 
)          MILITARY mission, in ways which were successfully covered up 
Well, the Russians did actually claim the Shuttle was an ASAT device since it
could retrieve satellites.
)          by NASA using techniques similar to those shown in the movie 
)          "Capricorn I", (5-7-81, 5-14-81, and 5-21-81 WR). 
Doubtful.
)          
)               Jumbo Cosmospheres are much larger than the 1st-
)          generation models, and use ELECTROMAGNETIC PROPULSION instead 
)          of rocket thrusters to move around. 
I thought it was the Dean drive. I bet it's reactionless, too.
)          
)               For about two years after Dr. Beter stopped recording 
)          his Audio Letters in November 1982 (because of heart 
)          trouble), his distributor, Audio Books, Inc., published some 
Heart trouble? Bet it was arranged, no?
)          newsletters titled "NewsALERT", using information passed on 
)          to them by Dr. Beter or received directly from his sources.  
)          A special supplementary issue, dated March 26, 1984, 
)          describes how Russian Jumbo Cosmospheres captured two 
)          communication satellites right after launch from U.S. Space 
)          Shuttle Mission #10, found anti-satellite (ASAT) missiles 
What type? What kind of warhead? Can you give more details.
)          mounted on one of them, and dumped both satellites into 
)          useless orbits.  NASA had fun TRYING to explain two-in-a-row 
)          failures of a highly reliable PAM-D satellite booster. 
NASA has trouble explaining anything these days. But I noticed you seem biased
against any American effort in space. What would be wrong w/us deploying ASATs
in orbit especially since the Russians supposedly had this arsenal up there?
Hmmmmm? Try explaining that.
)          
)               Russia's offer to share their "Star Wars" defense system 
)          with the rest of the world might also extend to SCIENTIFIC 
)          SPACE EXPLORATION.  For example, the United States is 
You haven't even given plausible proof of their defense system. Hell, I'm a
history major with an interest in sci-fi and I see holes in this that you 
could fly a Star Destroyer through.
)          planning to send two unmanned flyby and sample-return space 
)          missions to a comet.  These missions would cost BILLIONS of 
)          dollars, take fifteen years from now to complete, and could 
)          FAIL in DOZENS of ways.  A Russian Jumbo Cosmosphere could 
Name a dozen. You've already wasted this much bandwidth. Might as well go on.
)          complete a MANNED version of such a mission in a matter of 
)          MONTHS, if they have not already done so, since these 
)          Cosmospheres can accelerate continuously. 
Prove that last sentence.
)          
)               Note that the United States has announced a deal to 
)          purchase at least one SPACE REACTOR from Russia.  Now you 
)          know what the Russians originally developed and used them 
)          for. 
I think the reactor you described was a 100 kw reactor used to power their
RORSATS. That isn't enough power.
Well, he could have claimed they had a Neutrino Beam that would destroy anythingit hit. But he is either smarter than that and/or hasn't seen "The Final 
Yamato" and taken *that* idea. I don't recomend seeing that movie unless you
can suspend reality for a few hours. But, if you could survive reading this,
you could survive the movie (I hope.)
)
)
)
)               UN-altered REPRODUCTION and DISSEMINATION of this 
)          IMPORTANT Information is ENCOURAGED. 
Oops! Sorry about that. Oh well.
)
)                                   Robert E. McElwaine
)                                   B.S., Physics and Astronomy, UW-EC
I hope you were joking about this. 


-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Patrick Chester            |"The earth is too fragile a basket in which to keep
wolfone@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu |  all your eggs." Robert A. Heinlein
Politically Incorrect      |"The meek shall inherit the earth. The rest of us
Future Lunar Colonist      |  are going to the stars." Anonymous
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------