HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: irilyth@fenris.claremont.edu (Josh Smith)
Subject: Re: Give up, Dave, you've lost!
Originator: irilyth@fenris
Organization: Evil Geniuses For A Better Tomorrow
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 19:57:36 GMT

Dave Hayes (dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov) writes:

> But he would care if all of a sudden his traffic died, and not as many
> people were out there as he'd known in the past. When he finds out that 
> this is due to a newsgroup split, what's he going to do?

You're assuming that the effect you describe was due to the renaming. I (and
others) claim that the decrease in traffic on rec.music.*.synth is a result
_not_ of the group being renamed, but rather of your insistence on
crossposting the flame war to that group. This argument is not "Dave, you
could have done more to inform people," this argument is "Dave, you directly
and deliberately acted in a way that harmed the synth discussion group."

Maybe you didn't realize that dropping a flame war filled with Usenet
technical gobbledegook into rec.music.synth would drive people off (or
convince the SYNTH-L gateway maintainer to drop the gateway), but you have
yet to answer several people's claims that it did. I haven't read this
entire newsgroup yet, and this thread was being pursued elsewhere, so
apologies if you have taken this up in an article I haven't read yet. But as
far as I've seen so far, it has been claimed that the _cause_ of the harm to
rec.music.synth was _not_ the renaming, but _your response to the renaming_
(and I refer here to your crossposting of the flame war, not to your raising
an objection in the first place), and you have not yet rebutted this claim.

And no, saying "If the rec.music.synth readers had known I would start a
flame war, they would have voted no" is not a valid argument. Threatening to
annoy people unless they do what you want (and saying you wouldn't have
annoyed them if they'd just done what you wanted) is childish and petty, and
I'm (reasonably) sure you don't want to claim that label for yourself,
whatever anyone else may think.
-- 
Josh Smith, User Support Coordinator  ::  irilyth@fenris.claremont.edu
Harvey Mudd College, Claremont CA     ::  consult(std-disclaimer.pl).
"It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man."
From: jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: Rename rec.music.maker.synth to rec.music.synth?
Date: 14 Dec 1992 13:05:31 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

Just a little rudely forwarded email from Jay Maynard on the subject of
"jay, stop encouraging Dave Hayes"...

----------------------------Original message----------------------------
You know, my first instinct when i saw your original request to me was to tell
you to go straight to hell.

Instead, I think I'll continue rebutting Dave Hayes, point by point, just to
piss you off.

You reap what you sow...
--
Jay Maynard, EMT-P, K5ZC, PP-ASEL | Never ascribe to malice that which can
jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu      | adequately be explained by stupidity.
  "All [Windows] NT has is a lot of journalists fooled." -- Brian Button
From: murphy@npri6.npri.com (David P. Murphy)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: what's my motiviation?
Date: 11 Dec 92 15:31:30 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: NPRI, Alexandria VA


>>i am motivated by a certain level of hackerism, elitism, and belief
>>in the do-it-yourself ideal that made the net what it is today:
>>that those who do not find out for themselves how to vote under
>>the current system can bloody well continue to read and post
>>without me telling them how to vote.
>>
>>prove to me that _your_ way is any better than _my_ way.
>>
>>murphy @npri6.npri.com (David P. Murphy, not "you")

 >Actually, _your_ way is much better for _you_ than probably any other way
 >I can think of.
 >
 >And, that seems to be all _you_ care about.
 >
 >this content-free post has been brought to you by (ross-c@scs.leeds.ac.uk)

i would like to reply to you, ross, but you haven't actually said anything,
so it's going to be difficult . . . bear with me . . .

1.  of COURSE it's much better for me.  duh.  if it wasn't, i would change.

2.  my motivation includes helping people who request assistance and IMHO
    will make good use of my time.  this obviously excludes just about
    everybody on the net, because [a] they don't know me, [b] they don't
    know how to contact me, [c] they have no reason to think that i can 
    help them, since i am not offering, and [d] because if they want help,
    they can probably get it from someone else who is much closer.

3.  notice that people must WANT to be helped.

4.  you have no idea what i care about, ross, so kindly shut up.  i care
    about my wife, my daughter, my family, my friends, and even the good
    people at DSN who are trying to figure out why ^O does not work
    correctly under the ALPHA/VMS debugger.  i care about people who _ask_
    for help, rather than sitting like bumps on a log, waiting to be
    pushed to the documentation and forced to read it.

ok
dpm
-- 
murphy@npri6.npri.com 602 Cameron St. Alexandria, VA 22314 (703) 683-9090

              When every one is dead the Great Game is finished.  Not before.
                              --- Hurree Babu, "Kim"
From: jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: *poing*
Date: 17 Dec 1992 03:11:12 GMT
Organization: UT Health Science Center Houston

In article <1992Dec17.014635.1910@jato.jpl.nasa.gov> dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov writes:
>jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard) writes:
>>Dave and I actually agree on something... :-)
>Heavens to mergatroid! I'd better change my viewpoint FAST. ;-)

No need. It's spelled "Murgatroyd".

(for the blatant sarcasm impaired: :-)e+105)

-- 
Jay Maynard, EMT-P, K5ZC, PP-ASEL | Never ascribe to malice that which can
jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu      | adequately be explained by stupidity.
 "Brought to you by the letters O, S, and by the number 2." -- Mike Levis
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: jfurr@nyx.cs.du.edu (JKF)
Subject: Re: STRAW VOTE ON NAME FOR NATIVE AMERICANS NEWSGROUP
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 92 10:10:35 GMT

In article <idoy.724160398@crux1.cit.cornell.edu> idoy@crux1.cit.cornell.edu (Mike Wilson) writes:
>jfurr@nyx.cs.du.edu (JKF) writes:
>
>
>>Up to you.  I don't participate in them that often because nothing I've
>>given a fig about has come up in a straw vote.  Say a couple of weeks...
>>don't comment on the results as they come in, just let them pile up, then
>>report out the consensus.  If people aren't responding, repost the straw
>>vote call, I dunno.  I certainly think there's bound to be room for a
>>native Americans newsgroup on the net but don't really see a name that
>>makes me want to stand up and salute, so I hope you get a lot of input.
>
>Hello JFK,
>
>Let me ask you this.  Should I keep all the proper names with people
>along with their e-mail addresses so people can check on the vote
>if they want to?  Should I send some kind of bounce-back message
>to everyone who votes?  
>

I dunno.  Might as well, if you've got the space.  I hope people wouldn't
get their noses significantly out of joint if after 55 people voted in a
straw poll and 23 supported one name and 10 another and 8 another and 7
another and you said "well, the one that got 23 seems to be most
popular"... the people who voted for the group that got 7 might say "hey,
wait, let's see the votes..." but I'd hope they'd have more of a life than
that.

While I'm posting to this subject, let me ask the news.groups readership
at large: is anyone actually opposed to a newsgroup for indigenous
Americans?  As far as I can tell, the current minisquabbling seems to be
going on over the name, but not the concept as a whole.  I'd hate to see a
group with no opposition go down because people got upset about not liking
the name when, as far as I can see, there is no name that's going to
please everyone...
From: peter@ferranti.com (peter da silva)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: PROPOSAL:  Yes votes >= 200+2*No Votes
Date: 13 Dec 92 00:27:14 GMT
Organization: Xenix Support, FICC

In article <werner-111292092601@128.32.157.31> werner@soe.berkeley.edu (John Werner) writes:

Interesting message-ID. I guess your IP address is at least as unique as your
DNS site name.

> I wrote a big awk script to collect the data on this, and I have a file
> with data for all the groups created this year.  [...]   If anyone
> wants the raw data (about a month old at this point), let me know.  

I'd like to see that, to analyse the impact of both the original proposal
and my proposal.
-- 
%Peter da Silva/77487-5012 USA/+1 713 274 5180/Have you hugged your wolf today?
/L{lineto}def/C{curveto}def/F{0 562 moveto 180 576 324 648 396 736 C 432 736 L
482 670 518 634 612 612 C}def/G{setgray}def .75 G F 612 792 L 0 792 L fill 1 G
324 720 24 0 360 arc fill 0 G 3 setlinewidth F stroke showpage % "Peerless"
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Dave Hayes)
Subject: Re: Give up, Dave, you've lost!
Reply-To: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov
Organization: Jet Propulsion Lab - Pasadena, CA
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 01:45:41 GMT

jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard) writes:
>>Well, I know what I did. There were times that YOUR followup to line was
>>set to something interesting (i.e.  r.m.s. or other) and I don't know
>>if I caught all of those or not. 
>Why, if you only redirected followups back into r.m.s once, did Rich Kulawiec
>ask you on no less than three occasions to stop doing it?

I don't know. Why don't you ask him? 

>>Only in the minds of those who deem this important.
>Right. If this is not important, then why are you raising such a stink?

Because it _isn't_ important. (Figure that one out.)

>Or are you doing as Joel Furr accused me of with his flamethrower, and arguing
>just to inflate your ego?

You can't possibly think that my ego is getting a boost by taking on all you
flamebait mentality types at once...and losing?

>If you were to do as I suggested when you asked for suggestions, this would
>all be over now, and the synth community would be recovering. As it is, you're
>like an alcoholic who cannot admit that he has a problem.

*poing*

I'm sorry, but I don't support gang rape. You may witness such an event,
and because the gang is so big, you may decide to look the other way. My
ethics are different. 
-- 
Dave Hayes - Network & Communications Engineering - JPL / NASA - Pasadena CA
dave@elxr.jpl.nasa.gov       dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov         ...usc!elroy!dxh

If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting them
down? We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason.
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: talk.politics.patriot
From: a_rubin@dsg4.dse.beckman.com (Arthur Rubin)
Date: 15 Dec 92 21:54:43 GMT
Organization: Beckman Instruments, Inc.

In <visser.724451724@convex.convex.com> visser@convex.com (Lance Visser) writes:

>In <1gjc0uINN2qa@news.UU.NET> brians@atlastele.com (Brian Sheets) writes:

>+>I would like to propose a newsgroup for the patriot movement in the U.S.
>+>This would include discussions on rights violations by legislation, gold 
>+>and silver as payment for debts, freedom organizations and many other basic 
>+>US Constitutional topics.

>	How about talk.politics.reactionary as an alternative?

misc.activism.{reactionary,conservative}?




--
Arthur L. Rubin: a_rubin@dsg4.dse.beckman.com (work) Beckman Instruments/Brea
216-5888@mcimail.com 70707.453@compuserve.com arthur@pnet01.cts.com (personal)
My opinions are my own, and do not represent those of my employer.
My interaction with our news system is unstable; please mail anything important.
From: matt@physics.berkeley.edu (Matt Austern)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: sci.physics.research moderated
Date: 16 Dec 92 23:05:02
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory (Theoretical Physics Group)
Reply-To: matt@physics.berkeley.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: physics.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: greg@marvin.uchicago.edu's message of Thu, 17 Dec 1992 05:18:19 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.051819.5996@midway.uchicago.edu> greg@marvin.uchicago.edu (Greg Kuperberg) writes:

> >Moderation will be by a panel of three or four people; we'll announce
> >the names of those people before a CFV is issued.
> 
> One moderator would suffice, but if you prefer a panel, that's fine too.

This is something I should have cleared up in my original RFD.

I agree with Greg that one moderator would suffice.  The reason I have
instead proposed three or four moderators is quite practical: nobody
has volunteered to be the sole moderator for sci.physics, but several
people have volunteered to be co-moderators.  Being the sole moderator
of sci.physics.research would simply be such a time commitment that
it seems impossible to find anyone who is both qualified and willing
to do it.


--
Matthew Austern                   Just keep yelling until you attract a
(510) 644-2618                    crowd, then a constituency, a movement, a
austern@lbl.bitnet                faction, an army!  If you don't have any
matt@physics.berkeley.edu         solutions, become a part of the problem!
Newsgroups: news.groups,alt.native
From: gst@spdcc.com (Gary S. Trujillo)
Subject: Re: STRAW VOTE ON NAME FOR NATIVE AMERICANS NEWSGROUP
Reply-To: gst@gnosys.svle.ma.us (Gary S. Trujillo)
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 01:37:19 GMT

In article <EMCGUIRE.92Dec13113739@mother.intellection.com>
	emcguire@intellection.com (Ed McGuire) writes:

> I still favor "soc.culture.aboriginal[.american]," absent any
> objections from the new group proponents.  I submit it as an addition
> to the straw poll choices.

I agree this option should be added to the list of choices.

> "Aboriginal" clearly distinguishes between the original occupants of
> the land and other (largely European) "natives" who came later.  It is
> apparently in frequent use in Canadian media in preference to
> "Indian."

Yes.  It is technically more correct than "native," if a bit less
recognizable that the more commonly used terms.  As I've said before,
for whatever it's worth, I could live with "soc.culture.aboriginal,"
with "soc.culture.aboriginal.american" possibly to come later, if the
traffic warrants.

Gary
-- 
    Gary S. Trujillo                             gst@gnosys.svle.ma.us
Somerville, Massachusetts               {wjh12,bu.edu,spdcc,ima,cdp}!gnosys!gst
From: melin@hlrz24.hlrz.kfa-juelich.de (Stephan Melin)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: sci.physics.research moderated
Date: 18 Dec 92 15:03:37 GMT
Organization: Forschungszentrum Juelich GmbH (KFA), Germany

In article <1gouilINN3v5@news.UU.NET>, matt@physics.berkeley.edu (Matt Austern) writes:
|> This is a request for discussion about creating a new moderated group
|> for discussion of physics.
[lots of good ideas deleted]

I think sci.physics.moderated is an excellent idea. sci.physics is too much
volume and nearly no signal.

Best regards
-- 
Stephan Melin

melin@hlrserv.hlrz.kfa-juelich.de   ||    hkf418@djukfa11.bitnet
From: jfurr@polaris.async.vt.edu (Joel Furr)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: Give up, Dave, you've lost!
Date: 12 Dec 92 07:25:12 GMT
Organization: Escape from Blacksburg, VA

7@jato.jpl.nasa.gov>
Organization: Dave Hayes Fan Club (Southwestern Virginia Chapter)

In article <1992Dec12.010714.8107@jato.jpl.nasa.gov> dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov writ
es:
>jfurr@polaris.async.vt.edu (Joel Furr) writes:
>>Dave, Dave, Dave.  It's not going to WORK, Dave.  We've already filled the par
t
>>of Zippy the Pinhead.  Jay Maynard got the role.
>
>So I noticed.
>
>>It's over and done with.  I appreciate your Sean Young-like desire to do
>>anything you can to get the part but it's just TOO LATE.  Even if you were
>>to bump Maynard off, we've already got an understudy for the Zippy role:
>>Mark Brader.
>
>Who?

He's the guy who actually authored the CFV on hijacking alt.folklore.computers.
Apparently he's about as dumb as Maynard, but can't speak up and prove this
because he's vote-taker.  But since he and Maynard are clearly of one mind on
the issue, if Maynard ever drops off the face of the earth, we'll know where to
go to replace him. :)


>
>>You're just not going to win, you're really not.
>
>Who says? And define "winning".

*I* say.  Nyah!

>
>>Show the world you can take a defeat.  Show the world that you can bounce
>>back, stronger than before.  Don't continue this futile struggle to win
>>the title "Stupidest Person on USENET."  Just let go.  Do it for us, Dave.
>>Do it for us.
>
>I...I...can't! I've just GOT to be just like Jay Maynard! I can't help it,
>but I worship the ground the man walks on! I gotta be ... JUST like him!
>

Okay, okay, okay!  Dave, you're JUST AS STUPID AS JAY MAYNARD.  Now SHUT UP.
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: pkk36438@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Polygon)
Subject: Re: RFD: soc.culture.bolivia
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 18:36:08 GMT

kim@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu (Hugh Victor deLoayza) writes:

>I would like to propose a soc.culture. group that discusses the culture
>and people of Bolivia.  This group would be an inexpensive and
>interesting way to represent a culture which often goes un-represented.
>Please join in on the discussion phase of this group and feel free to
>leave your comments.  I can also be reached at kim@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu

	I am not familiar with Bolivia and am curious about the possible
	topics about this newsgroup.  I am also wondering how big is the
	readership of the proposed newsgroup?  Maybe soc.culture.bolivia
	can one day become the 54th newsgroup here.

						Polygon
From: jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: Give up, Dave, you've lost!
Date: 15 Dec 1992 14:37:44 GMT
Organization: UT Health Science Center Houston

In article <1992Dec14.215351.12595@jato.jpl.nasa.gov> dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov writes:
[about Dave's redirecting the flames back into rec.music.synth]
>I only did that ONCE. 

Nope...at least three times that I can remember, just from other folks'
comments in this thread about how you kept doing it and asking you to stop.

>>No; it implies that you should be careful about where, how, and how much to
>>complain.
>On Usenet? Hardly.

On Usenet? Especially. After all, heaven knows things get magnified in
importance on here... :-)

You're imposing a binary result on top of a continuum, and that sets the
bullshit flag. *poing*

>>my intention to get you to see that you're hurting people in the name of
>>helping them - kinda like the old "fucking for virginity".
>I'm not hurting anyone. Sorry. Unless people can be hurt by my words, in
>which case they are giving me a LOT of power.

Your actions in ignoring this vote, and flaming about it in rec.music.synth,
are directly responsible for the bad things you're claiming are happening to
the synth community. You ARE hurting people, at least to the extent that
you're claiming people are being hurt by all this.
-- 
Jay Maynard, EMT-P, K5ZC, PP-ASEL | Never ascribe to malice that which can
jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu      | adequately be explained by stupidity.
  "All [Windows] NT has is a lot of journalists fooled." -- Brian Button
From: apardon@rc1.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: DAVE HAYES MAY BE RIGHT!
Date: 15 Dec 92 10:15:54 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Brussels Free Universities (VUB/ULB), Belgium

dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Dave Hayes) writes:
|> jhenders@jonh.wimsey.bc.ca (John Henders) writes:
|> >	But Dave, until you answer the proof already presented, that a
|> >separate posting by one of the rec.synth readers with a clear
|> >unambuiguos subject line was posted to, and even replied to by another
|> >reader,
|> 
|> ONE article? That makes a difference, for sure...what with 75 articles
|> per day average one article is bound to make a difference huh?

Well it seemed to make the difference to the person who replied.

If someone for whatever reason chooses not to investigate the
subject lines that is his responsibility.

And by the same reasoning you could abuse every poster which 
provided some ?important? information you missed until too late
of not submiting it enough. Should we now submit every article 
every day for a week in the hope that all who it will concern
will read it?

========================================================================
Antoon Pardon                                        <apardon@vub.ac.be>
Brussels Free University Computing Centre                   02/650.37.16
========================================================================
Newsgroups: news.groups,news.admin.misc
From: stoodt@cis.umassd.edu (Michael Stoodt)
Subject: comp.soc.folklore unmoderation forgery - he's at it again...
Organization: University of Massachusetts Dartmouth
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 20:00:47 GMT

I am assuming that the article below is another Palmer-ism (or an
incredible simulation thereof), since the Path goes through
"destroyer", prominant in the path of the other unmoderation attempt,
and Steve Simmons' recent articles (those that I've looked at) have
not gone through destroyer...

Destroyer... Quite appropriate for this person...  I used to think
that I could get away with a one-line newgroupperm file ("alt any
nv"); now I'll have to be more specific.

] Path: umassd.edu!nic.umass.edu!noc.near.net!uunet!psinntp!uunet!destroyer!heifetz!widener!hela!iti.org!news
] From: scs@iti.org (Steve Simmons)
] Newsgroups: news.groups,alt.config,alt.folklore.computers,alt.fan.john-palmer
] Subject: Re: RESULT: comp.society.folklore unmoderation fails 729:151
] Message-ID: <scs.72468579111@wotan.iti.org>
] Date: 18 Dec 92 13:36:31 GMT
] References: <1992Dec17.020351.23814jp@tygra.Michigan.COM> <1gorc2INNt5p@apache.dtcc.edu> <scs.724598988@hela.iti.org> <1992Dec18.000942.26161@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu>
] Sender: usenet@iti.org (Hela USENET News System)
] Organization: Industrial Technology Institute
] Nntp-Posting-Host: wotan.iti.org
] Control: newgroup comp.society.folklore unmoderated
] Approved: scs@iti.org (Steve Simmons)
] Lines: 17
] 
] klein@egr.msu.edu (Jeffrey Klein) writes:
] 
] >In article <scs.724598988@hela.iti.org> scs@iti.org (Steve Simmons) writes:
] >>
] >>Before getting too excited, it's worth doing a bit of research . . .
] 
] >Well, there was a cancel message sent.
] >Here's how it looked from umass.
] 
] >>Control: newgroup comp.society.folklore
] >>Newsgroups: alt.config,comp.society.folklore.ctl
] >>Path: umassd.edu!nic.umass.edu!caen!destroyer!Tygra.Michigan.COM!news
] 
] That's not a cancel, that's another newgroup setting it back.  It
] would have left the original message intact.
] -- 
] 	"You can't get here from here."
] 
-- 
Michael A Stoodt  [MaS]      |        mumble mumble disclaimer mumble...
stoodt@cis.umassd.edu        | "Will the last person to leave the planet
Comp&InfoSci, UMassDartmouth |  please turn off the sun?" - Mike Resnick