From: launce@apollo.med.utah.edu (Tri-Ungulate)
Subject: Re: Mo
Organization: Trifurcate-Hooved Ruminant Surveyors, Inc.
	<1992Oct11.200211.22740@nas.nasa.gov>
Distribution: ca
Date: 14 Oct 92 16:00:30

In article <1992Oct11.200211.22740@nas.nasa.gov> eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya) writes:

>   Actually, it's very deliberate.  It's deterrence.  Worked for decades.
>   Designed (doesn't always work) to prevent the uncertain novice from killing
>   themselves due to groupies (like yourself) and faddists seeking attention
>   and trying to promote a populist/commercial agenda.
>   Trying to preserve what some call "adventure" (I call essence) of the sport
>   or activity. ("Adventure" is a term more for unprepared novices.)

Careful with that (ice) axe, Eugene... :-)

I initially thought of a nasty sarcastic response to this but
desisted, (much like I passed on Rawl's "social commentary").  This is
*not* meant to be a flame per se.

Eugene has made it abundantly clear that he has a breadth and depth of
backcountry experience - In fact, he doesn't ever let us forget it.
(okay, okay just a little teensy flame ;-)) I don't fault him for
that.  In fact, I often (usually) find his articles informative,
interesting, and well-written, and make a point of reading them
(except for that humongous "distilled wisdom" FAQ file ;-)).

What bugs me is the patronizing attitude that *sometimes* bleeds
through his (and other's) commentary.  What I'm talking about is the
kind of "oldbie vs. newbie" arch condescention that tends to divide a
community (backcountry) that oughta really be working together.

Some of us may make indiscretions on the net (among other places), but
I fail to see how Bobbie has all of a sudden been demonized as a
"groupie/faddist seeking attention & trying to promote a
populist/commercial agenda," for no apparent reason other than
explaining which guidebooks Eugene was referring to.

I've been climbing a few years, make no bones about still being a
novice, but try nonetheless to improve and enjoy myself as much as
possible on the crags.  I used to fit in to Eugene's "peak bagger" or
perhaps more accurately "trekker" (1) class, moved on to "weekend
warrior" status, but found that "YuppieBuppieLycraCladSportClimbing"
can not only be enjoyable, but has improved many of my skills to the
point that I feel more comfortable leading on some multipitch trad route.
I'm interested in becoming an "real alpinist" -- maybe someday once I
get the resources (not to mention the time) to buy a whole new set of
*very expensive* toys (borrowing/renting stuff is always such a drag).

My point is that "people who climb", be they gumbys or hard(wo)men
cannot be classified (and therefore ridiculed) so easily. My other
point is that there is no need for this kind of "us vs. them" attitude
within a community that needs to work together on important issues
like conservation, environment, access, etc.

The people I most admire are those with vast experience and skills who
don't condescend to me.  Those who don't mind selflessly helping out a
hopeless gumby like myself.  Who teach me skills, safety and
sensitivity, correcting my mistakes without sneering about how
climbing "might be too hard and perhaps I'd better get out before I
kill myself".  Who don't make a big deal about how good they are or
how much more they know.  Who help me more fully enjoy my experiences
in the backcountry or on the crags.  I'm not saying that Eugene is
always guilty of a supercilious attitude, nor that it is confined to
his person, just that it can be kind of a turn-off.

Just some thoughts...

(1) My personal definition of the term "trekker" - one who, in the
process of moving overland can often encounter situations that require
knowledge and/or technical skills used by the "climbing public."
  
| _, launce gouw * internet: launce@apollo.med.utah.edu * ooniversity of ootah 
|(_) medical center * department of human genetics *   palace of the brine
___) we apologise for the previous opinions. those responsible have been sacked





















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