From: ford@zeta.uleth.ca (Roger Ford)
Subject: Copy cats
Summary: More on copycats and stuff
Keywords: corewar
Organization: University of Lethbridge
Date: 17 Nov 92 22:57:21 GMT

Paul and I have had a little discussion about copycat source
I publish the letters in thier entire in hopes of promoting
discussions.  I have writen to other people who submit to the hill
and will correspond with anyone who emails.
The letters follow:
===============================================================
Date:    Tue, 17 Nov 1992 16:24:59 -0600 (CST)
From: PDK@ADMIN.DRAKE.EDU
Message-Id: <921117162459.49d@ADMIN.DRAKE.EDU>
Subject: RE: Copy cats and other things to whine about
To: ford@zeta.uleth.ca
X-Vmsmail-To: SMTP%"ford@zeta.uleth.ca"

Chris, I want you to post your note on rec.games.corewar so we can get
some general discussion going.  I think it needs to happen.  Especially
for people just coming into the game, they need to have some guidance
on whether what they are writing is sufficiently original to claim
ownership.

BTW, I got a fairly abusive note from Dan claiming that Imprimis was
a knockoff of Impression, which source he sent me some time ago.  I 
don't know whether he sent you a copy of Impression, but it contains
line-for-line code which I published previously, and incorporates
concepts which I 'originally' published earlier as well.

Some other facts:  There is more to Emerald than the stone component.
                   Emerald beats Kobold 60/30.  
                   Imprimis 2 beats Impression 15/0, and is the only
                   ring program that consistently scores 10-20% wins
                   against other rings.

(FYI, I have a new version of paper that beats Sucker5 94/6, but unfortunately
loses big time to scanners)

I'm returning your note in case you didn't keep a copy:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
	I am writing this letter to you rather than post it to the net,  there
are a few things that bother me about your posting.
	There are a finite number of ways to implement Red Code warrriors,
just as an example.  Both Sucker 4 and the first Kobold both use a step
rate of 37.  Granted one bombs and one slaves  are we going to say that one
guy copied another.  No matter what you change the step rate to Emerald is just
Kobold is just  Stone.  No Mucking About is just another Sissors scanner.  
	Impire may be the original,  But...then is IMPressive just a copy.
If so Imprimus is a clone of IMPressive....Sad but true there are very few
original ideas on the hill......Imitation seems to be the way to inovation.
Emerald with the mov <a,<b is a good improvement to Stone but it's still stone
base.  Orc is just stone with a core clear.  Who did we rip off?  I have source
for Stone, 2 versions each credits a different author.  Same name, identical
code, different author.  Who wrote it?? I don't know.
	My point is there is going to be some imitation because there are only
so many step rates, so many bomb patterns, few ways to implement an imp spiral
	But I ramble,  I don't know where we would be if no one posted code.  I
guess we'd have to wait for publication of contest winners for ideas.
I don't know what the solution to copycats is but there is bound to be some.
If IMPire never published we would still be 30 points behind him.

All for now
Chris.