HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: agha@cs.uiuc.edu (Gul Agha)
Subject: Re: The Origin of Western Thinking Process
Followup-To: soc.culture.pakistan
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 20:59:14 GMT


   >                  THE ORIGIN OF WESTERN THINKING PROCESS:
			  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

      This sounds a lot more like "lets trash Christianity to me
      [sic].  Christianity
      is not exclusively "western". There are many faithful people in the
      traditional "eastern hemispheric" nations.

True.  Let us define religion narrowly and objectively as what people
generally practice and their priests broadly preach while recognizing
that none of it is monolithic and there are shades of all kinds of
thinking in any large body or group.

It may be conversely observed, the bible thumping fundamentalists
notwithstanding, that Christianity does not have much to do modern
Western thinking.

Indeed it is the repudiation of much of the traditional religious
doctrine and modes of scholarship that has shaped the scientific
worldview.  This ranges from Bacon and other philosophers promoting
falsifiability and induction as a basis for epistemology -- to the
total displacement of the role of revelation, to the utilitarian
philosophers and their role in reforming the penal system and
abolishing the intellectual basis for slavery and other erstwhile
tolerated practices.  The profound consequences have ranged from
relegation of the story of Adam and Eve to mythology by the theory of
evolution to a change in our view of space-time and causality.

In fact, the geocentric and homosapien-centric view of Semitic
religions does not even seem very good mythology for our knowledgebase,
or much of an aid in improving the long term survival chances of our
species (if not a primary source of damaging ideologies).  

In fact, the Semitic religions seem to have long passed their role as
categorical frameworks (to the extent one takes them to static rather
than living -- i.e., as not platforms which may be freely
reinterpretated and suitably amended).  For example, none of them
clearly and categorically abolished slavery (or racism) -- something
that the Universal Declaration of Human Rights now does and is widely
accepted.  In fact, some of them were (and perhaps are) actively used
to promote racist thinking -- just consider the abhorent myth about
the how one of Noah's children supposedly became the ancestor of black
people.

Peace,

Gul Agha
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: pavan@umn-cs.cs.umn.edu (A.Pavan)
Subject: Pt. Birju Maharaj (Kathak) touring N.America
Organization: University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, CSci dept.
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 20:01:55 GMT


Pandit Birju Maharaj along with his company will be touring North America
for the months of June and July, 1993. If you would like to organise a
performance, workshops, lecture-demonstrations and/or master classes
of Kathak Dance, Tabla, and vocal music, please contact :

Nritya Jyoti Dance Inc.
c/o Rita Mitra Mustaphi
5444 Orchard Avenue No.
Crystal, MN, 55429

Ph # : (612)537-8291

			Pandit Birju Maharaj
			****** ***** *******

Pandit Birju Maharaj is the recipient of "Padma Vibhushan" - the highest
Presidential Award for achievements. He is a master choreographer, renowned
composer, vocalist and percussionist. He represents the seventh generation
of hereditary storytelling dancers. He was the invited choregrapher at the
American Dance Festival in 1991.

Nritya Jyoti Dance Inc., Crystal, MN, will arrange for a grand tour of
the dance master along with his company of dancers and musicians.

----

I'm posting this on behalf of Mrs. Rita Mustaphi, who doesn't have access to
the Internet. Please contact her directly if you're interested in getting any
further information or in organizing performances, lectures or workshops ...


--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
pavan@umn-cs.cs.umn.edu		Off: 612-626-7509 	Res:612-341-0708
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: kekare@mecad.uta.edu (Sagar A. Kekare)
Subject: poems from films
Reply-To: kekare@mecad.uta.edu (Sagar A. Kekare)
Organization: University of Texas at Arlington
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 01:49:35 GMT


Here is another one from an oldie movie. This one is sung by Talat Mehmood and  
the tune is by Madan Mohan. Film- "DEKH KABIRAA ROYAA". Unfortunately I do not  
remember the poet.

	hum se aayaa na gayaa, tum se bulaayaa na gayaa
	faaslaa pyaar meiN donoN se mitaayaa na gayaa __

	woh ghadi yaad hai, jab tum se mulaaqaat hui
	ik ishaaraa huaa, do haath badhe, baat hui
	dekhte dekhte din dhal gayaa aur raat hui
	woh samaaN aaj talak dil se bhulaayaa na gayaa

	kyaa khabar thi ke mile haiN to bicchadane ke liye
	qismateN apni banaayi haiN bigadane ke liye
	pyaar kaa baagh lagaayaa thaa ujadane ke liye
	is tarah ujadaa ke phir hum se basaayaa na gayaa

	yaad rah jaati hai aur waqt guzar jaataa hai
	phul khiltaa bhi hai aur khil ke bikhar jaataa hai
	sab chale jaate hai tab dard-e-jighar jaataa hai
	daagh jo tune diyaa dil se hataayaa na gayaa __

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Juz zameen-e-koo-e-jaanaaN kucch nahiN pesh-e-nigaah
Jis kaa darwaazaa nazar aayaa, sadaa de ne lage
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sagar
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: mghayalo@uceng.uc.edu (Manoj Ghayalod)
Subject: Re: Snippets of very old news
Organization: University of Cincinnati
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 21:40:21 GMT

In article <1jitjbINNke2@charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu> jawad@ecst.csuchico.edu (Jawad Ali) writes:
>In article <C12rF5.Epq@uceng.uc.edu> mghayalo@uceng.uc.edu (Manoj Ghayalod) writes:
>>
>>These Hindu MPs are speaking as if they have a gun held to thier heads.
>
>Translation:  They are not saying what Manoj wants them to say.

Actually that is not true.  If the Hindus protested to the actions of
the Pakistani govt and the Indian govt, I would have believed that they
protested with no threat from any one.

Let me you give you an example.  If a person sees his neighbor break a
mosque/temple in his compound, and he gets angry and beats his son, whose
action do you think the son will protest to?
If the son is not scared of his father he will tell his father not to
take his anger on him.  And then maybe he will try to reason with his
neighors.  

If the Hindus are not scared in Pakistan, why don't they protest the Hindu
women and children killed there?
or
Demand the CM be dismissed who led a mob against Hindus.



>>The Imam has also asked for Muslims to boycott the republic day of India.
>>He was not arrested, this is known as the freedom to protest.
>
>This is the logical equvilent of pointing out that the statement of 
>the Hindu MP shows that, in contrast, Hindus in Pakistan have very
>little to protest against.  Every day someone in Pakistan calls for

Is that really true?  Ask any Hindu, Christian, Parsi, Jew, etc, here
if they would like to live under Islamic law.  I am certian they
will say no.  Isn`t this one reason for Hindus to protest against?
But those guys are so scared they cannot even protest about the happenings
against them after the RJB incident.

>a strike (including many friends you have made on scp) sometimes
>someone is arrested, most of the time no one is.  So delighted to 
>know that there is freedom of protest on both sides of the border.
>
>What crimes, BTW, were proven against the two Muslims organizations
>that were recently banned in India in the Ayodhya aftermath.
>
>j n a
>[most of the time I ignore these my-country-is-better-than-your-
>country flames]


In India the Muslims have made the following demands. 

1. The BJP, RSS and VHP be banned.
2. The Mosque be rebuilt.
3. Punish the people involved in the riots.
4. Punish the people involved in the destruction of the Babri Masjid.
5. The resignation of S.B. Chavan the home minister of India and the
   dismissal of the govt of Maharashtra.
6. The Imam has even announced that the Republic day of India be boycot.

This proves that Muslims are not scared of protesting in India, for that
I am proud.

India has a lot of faults, but we Indians have and are still trying very
hard to be fair.  I am not flaming anyone, but you are acting as if you
don't know that Pakistan does not treat its people fairly.  Just ask your
self this, Pakistan already has very few Hindus, how many would have
survived if some Pakistani Hindu made a call similar to the Indian Imam?



Manoj
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: mac1@Ra.MsState.Edu (Mubashir Cheema)
Subject: Pak TV2 on satellite !!!!!!!!!!
Summary: PTV2
Keywords: PTV@
Organization: Mississippi State University
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 21:17:54 GMT



  Well I hope that everyone by now knows that we have a PTV2 channel
 back home for quiet some time now. However I didn't know that this is
 also broadcasted via satellite. Now can we Pkistanis here in US watch it
 through a receiver. What kind of receiver would we need ? 

 Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Thanx.
 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Mubashir Cheema: Computer Engineering student at Mississippi State University.
Amiga User and Star Trek Fan (me too :)
I can be reached at phone : (601) 324-6433 
US mail  : PO Box 4887, MSU             UPS/FedEx: Greentree T.H. # 33D 
           MS State, MS 39762-4887                 110 Lynn Lane  
                                                   Starkville, MS 39759 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: imran@panix.com (Imran Anwar)
Subject: PakistaNews COLOUR GIF Files Restart: Suggestions Welcom
Organization: IMRAN: Information & Media Resources, Affiliations, Networks
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 04:50:51 GMT


Thanks to the readers of PakistaNews files that were posted as TEXT during
the last few weeks.  The color GIF files are no available again, hopefully
conintuing on the same regular daily basis as before.

You will notice that they contain more images than before, and are based
on latest local news from Pakistan received via internet email from Lahore.

The graphics are also obtained from Lahore, or in some cases from NY.

You can save the message/article containing the GIF file to your system,
"uudecode file-name" to get the binary GIF file, and view that GIF file with
any graphics program that works on your system to view GIF files.

This differs from system to system to so please ask your system administrator
if you do not know what program to use.

Keep the feedback and suggestions coming.  I will try to respond to
everyone, but in case of delay, please understand that I may be busy
with something else.

Regards

Imran Anwar
From: choudhar@flounder.rutgers.edu (A'amer N. Choudhary)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: FRIENDS FROM ISLAMABAD
Summary: FRIENDS FROM ISLAMABAD
Keywords: FRIENDS FROM ISLAMABAD
Date: 28 Jan 93 21:59:32 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

BHAI LOGO

I am looking for people from Islamabad.  
If you are one please respond by hitting the 'r' key NOW.

ALLAH MADADGAR

-- 
###################################################################
#      A'amer Choudhary  219 Diane Ave. Delran, NJ 08075          #
#                choudhar@clam.rutgers.edu                        #
###################################################################
From: hyder@cs.utexas.edu (Syed Irfan Hyder)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: The Origin of Western Thinking Process
Date: 26 Jan 1993 11:41:36 -0600
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: pageboy.cs.utexas.edu

In article <1993Jan26.151348.19826@prism.poly.edu> ahussain@prism.poly.edu (Arshad Hussain) writes:
>>
>ALL muslims have the same belief that he was NOT killed or died on cross.
>My viewpoint is that Jesus died a natural death. He is NOT alive. His being
>alive for 2000 years(no body knows where) is a myth and it is
>against teachings of Quran. Jesus was a human: an obedient man to his mother.
>What do you say about that? Is he alive or dead?


4:157	And their saying: Surely we have killed the Messiah, Isa
(Quran)	son of Marium, the apostle of Allah; and they did not kill him nor
	did they crucify him, but it appeared to them so (like Isa) and most
	surely those who differ therein are only in a doubt about it; they
	have no knowledge respecting it, but only follow a conjecture, and
	they killed him not for sure.

3:55. 	And when Allah said: O Isa, I am going to terminate the
(Quran)	period of your stay (on earth) and cause you to ascend unto Me
	and purify you of those who disbelieve and make those who
	follow you above those who disbelieve to the day of resurrection;
	then to Me shall be your return, so l will decide between you
	concerning that in which you differed.

> I hope I get a plain 
>simple answer to a simple question.

3:7.	He it is Who has revealed the Book to you; some of its verses
(Quran)	are decisive, they are the basis of the Book, and others are
	allegorical; then as for those in whose hearts there is
	perversity they follow the part of it which is allegorical,
	seeking to mislead and seeking to give it (their own)
	interpretation. but none knows
	its interpretation except Allah, and those who are firmly rooted
	in knowledge say: We believe in it, it is all from our Lord; and
	none do mind except those having understanding.

3:8.	Our Lord! make not our hearts to deviate after Thou hast
	guided us aright, and grant us from Thee mercy; surely Thou art
	the most liberal Giver.

>
>When Jesus's period on earth was terminated, he died and joined the group
>of prophets (who came before him) in heaven. There is only ONE way Allah
>terminates one's stay on earth: by giving him/her death.

Q: Why should Allah have only "ONE way to terminate one's stay on earth"?
   Isn't HE the omnipotent who decides?

3:59	 Surely the likeness of Isa is with Allah as the likeness of
(Quran)	Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him, Be, and he was.

Ans: Thus, he ONLY has to say "be and it is" [kun -fayakoon]!!!!

Request: Please don't play God and decide for Him what He can or can not do!

Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: imran@mozart.amd.com (Imran Baqai)
Subject: Re: Anyone going to Pakistan?
Organization: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.; Austin, Texas
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 20:27:43 GMT

In article <1993Jan25.170529.4200@dvorak.amd.com> imran@mozart.amd.com (Imran Baqai) writes:
>Just wondering if anyone is leaving for Pakistan in the next week or so.
>I have to send some papers very urgently. I will be willing to pay $20
>to anyone willing to take my documents with them. I want to send it to
>Islamabad but Karachi would be fine too. E-mail me if anyone is 
>interested to:   imran@amd.comi

Sorry about the typo in e-mail address. It should be imran@mozart.amd.com
From: gt0009b@prism.gatech.EDU (rahim)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: A Language Question
Date: 24 Jan 93 00:00:38 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

I know very little Urdu, but could someone give
me a translation of the word "transcendent" in
Urdu, and its synonyms and their connotations.

Thank you;


-- 
rahim
---
	     "I am the Lizard King.  I can do anything."
					-Jim Morrison
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: vagarwal@dis9002.shearson.com (Virendra Agarwal)
Subject: Re: Report: U.S. insists Pakistan prove it's not backing terrorists
Organization: Lehman Brothers
	<C0puMq.BI8@uceng.uc.edu> <1itdbvINNpp0@shelley.u.washington.edu>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 21:32:23 GMT


>   All India has to do is, show its democractic values which it prides itself
>   on, as compared to terrorist Pakistan, and help Islamic Republic of Kashmir,
>   and the making of the great nation of Khalistan.
>
>   True. India hates Pakistan. Pakistan hates India.
>   Who will mediate ?  ...............

>   What ? oh, no, no..... not the bhangies...!!!

----------------
   Mr. Shams Hasan,
	Have you heard of saying "UNITED WE STAND and DIVIDED we fall" OR the
	story of a monkey acting as mediator between two cats.
	Why do you people of Non-European region can not understand that all this
	infighting only weakens you on the international scene. You can think of
	dividing India or Pakistan based upon religious affiliations but eventually
	we (Non-Europeans) are the ones to lose. The people in Pakistan and India
	have many common roots. They just happen to follow different religion for 
	whatever historical reasons. Same is true for all Arab nations. Europeans
	are able to divide them as well and RULE !! Looks like you prefer to be
	ruled by EUROPEANS but you will not live peacefully among yourselves.
---------------


--
---------------------------------------------------------------
V. Agarwal
---------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: rizvi@ee.ualberta.ca (Syed Rizvi)
Subject: testing
Keywords: test
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 20:57:36 GMT


	just testing pl. ignore
-- 
Syed Rizvi                              rizvi@ee.ualberta.ca
Electrical Engineering                  
University of Alberta 238 Civil Elect   Voice (403)492-2954
Edmonton, Alberta Canada                Fax   (403)492-1811
From: choudhar@flounder.rutgers.edu (A'amer N. Choudhary)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: FRIENDS FROM ISLAMABAD
Summary: FRIENDS FROM ISLAMABAD
Keywords: ISLAMABAD
Date: 28 Jan 93 21:51:34 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

BHAI LOGO

I did my F.Sc. from Islamabad College for boys in 1987.  I know that a
lot of guys from my batch are here in the US

So if you are out there, somewhere and you are reading this article,
please respond.  

If you do respond we can probably sit down together and talk about our
urdu teacher 'Jani Mamoon'.

My email address is choudhar@clam.rutgers.edu

Allah Madadgar
Aamer Choudhary
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.indian
From: ima@hel.cs.wayne.edu (Imran Ahmad)
Subject: Travel Agents Survey---------------
Organization: Wayne State University, Detroit, MI
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 17:09:52 GMT

Hi Netters:

This message is for thanks to all those individuals (at least a dozen) who
responded on my request for latest travel agents servey.

-Imran

Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: rashid@bcarh2c9.bnr.ca (Rashid Ali)
Subject: Re: Where are the Karachites on the net....?
Keywords: Hang loose on the Caboose !
Reply-To: rashid@bnr.ca
Organization: Bell-Northern Research
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 17:48:24 GMT

In article <C19KLw.7wI@austin.ibm.com>, adil@austin.ibm.com (Adil Soofi) writes:
>
>In article <1jmthcINN17s@shelley.u.washington.edu>, shamshoo@shelley.u.washington.edu (Shams Hasan) writes:
>> 
>> Dear Karachities,
>> 
><deleted poem>
>
>...... and I miss Bundu Khan, Silver Spoon, Sunshine Sweets, Cafe De Khan, 
>Baloch Ice, and especially the Pathan restaurant opposite Grammar School
>in Empress Market!
>
>I wonder if these places still exist. 
>> 
>> 
>> Best Regards,
>> Shams Hasan.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>-- 
>Adil Khan Soofi		IBM Software Consultant. Austin, Texas
>adil@austin.ibm.com	(512) 823.9388
>[Opinions expressed in this article are entirely my own.]
.... and I miss my school days, I studied in Gulistan School. I wonder if the
discipline is still there as it used to be in our days.

Rashid Ali (Gulistan School Matric in 1969/1970)
From: naufal@ocf.berkeley.edu (Naufal A. Khan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Shair-Light
Date: 22 Jan 1993 19:47:23 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: maelstrom.berkeley.edu




In article <1jngh7INN4kp@shelley.u.washington.edu> shamshoo@shelley.u.
washington.edu (Shams Hasan) writes :


>Dear Murtaza,

>A two line masterpiece, no doubt. Pray, what Mir means by Hum Qayas Qiya ?
>Also, Jo Bas Kiya ?

>Though my Urdu is OK.But,.......
>Any help would be greatly appreciated, honorable existential engineer.


>Best Regrards,
>Shams Hasan.

Although Mr. Hasan posted the whole "tashreeh" of the above sher, I would 
like to answer your *specific* question ( just b/c I wanna show off my 
Urdu :-)   ).


Hum Qayas Kiya : basically means 'I thought' or 'I believed'. Qayas, in present
		 day Urdu, means more as 'to speculate' e.g. Qayas-aaraaiyyaan

Jo Bas Kiya : means when I smelt it.  Bas means smell or odor.

Naufal.




Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: hyder@cs.utexas.edu (Syed Irfan Hyder)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: FRIENDS FROM ISLAMABAD: Only for ICBians. Others, press key n
Date: 28 Jan 1993 18:01:23 -0600
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: pageboy.cs.utexas.edu
Keywords: ISLAMABAD

In article <Jan.28.16.51.33.1993.15019@flounder.rutgers.edu> choudhar@flounder.rutgers.edu (A'amer N. Choudhary) writes:
>
>I did my F.Sc. from Islamabad College for boys in 1987.  I know that a
>lot of guys from my batch are here in the US
>
>If you do respond we can probably sit down together and talk about our
>urdu teacher 'Jani Mamoon'.

What about "pup-poo", "gud-doo", and "kup-pee"?

Ah, but I forgot! 

"pup-poo" and "gud-doo" would have left a long time before you guys would 
	 have become familiar with the jargon.

But, I think  "kup-pee" must still be there.

If I am not wrong, this problem is "as-as-as-problem ..."

Did Ja'ni Mamoon ever related to you guys about his personal
hobby? [I have never since heard of any one having the same hobby].
From: sbaqai@skat.usc.edu (Shahab Baqai)
Newsgroups: usc.general,soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Concert / Musical Evening at USC
Date: 23 Jan 1993 00:57:40 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: la
NNTP-Posting-Host: skat.usc.edu

A musical evening has been arranged by Pakistani Students Association
University of Southern California and other groups as a fund raiser
for Flood Victims and Comunity Service in Pakistan.

Main highlights of the program include
		Pakistani Folk & PoP Music
		Fashion Show
		Address by Consulate General of Pakistan
		Lottery

When:	Jan 23 1993 1900 hrs
Where:	Bovard Auditorium University of Southern California

Admission is with a mandatory donation of $10 (minimum) for non-usc
audiences while for USC students, faculty and staff the donation is
not mandatory.

-- 
Shahab Baqai
Unix Consultant
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: ahussain@prism.poly.edu (Arshad Hussain)
Subject: Re: says who ? says Faiz
Summary: Daaru da Jawaab nai
Organization: Polytechnic University, New York
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 14:33:45 GMT

In article naufal@ocf.berkeley.edu (Naufal A. Khan) writes:
>
>rang pairahan ka , khushboo zulf lehraanay ka naam
>mausam-e-gul hai tumhaaray baam par aanay ka naam
>
>dosto uss chashm-o-lub kee kuch kaho jiss kay baghair
>gulistan kee baat rangeen hai na maikhanay ka naam
>
>phir nazar main phool mehkay, dil main phir shamain jaleen
>phir tasawwur nay liya uss bazm main jaanay ka naam
>
>Faiz un ko hai taqaazaa-e-wafaa hum say jinhain
>aashna kay naam say piyara hai begaanay ka naam
>
						-- Faiz 
Wah!! A minor correction. The last Sher is from another Ghazal of Faiz 
with same  Qaafia and Radeef. The last one of this Gazal is:


Muhtasib kee khair, ooncha hay 'usee kay faiz say
Rind ka Saaqi ka  Mey ka  Khoom ka  Pemaa-ney ka naam
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan