From: sgccrjh@citec.oz.au (Robert Howlett)
Subject: Re: End of Golden Era at Honda
Organization: CITEC
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 11:07:53 GMT

jondu@microsoft.com (Jonathan Dubman) writes:
: IMHO, the '92 Quaalude marks the end of a golden era at Honda, an era that
: peaked with the '84-'87 Civic hatchback and '86-'89 Integra, the Accord and
: CRX, and continued even through the new Accord design.

I would agree with you about the decline of Honda as an 'innovative'
manufacturer...

Howver, I think the rot set in a bit later than you suggest.  The last
cars Honda made that were truly top of their class at time of launch
(IMHO) were :

1988-1992 Civic

Streets ahead of the opposition at time of release, took
the other Japanses manufacturers 3 years to catch up.

16v motor was a great improvement on the previous 12v, and double
wishbone suspension improved comfort/handling significantly (I have
owned both of these model civics)

1988-1992 CRX

Great little sports car, if you could handle the two seats.
Much better looking than the equivalent vintage MR2.

1986-1990 Accord

An extremely successful car, and deservedly so.

1986-1992 Prelude

Innovative!  Four wheel steering proved to be a significant advance,
while the others were pushing 'gimmicks'.

: The new Integras
: are good but there is a subtle decline, again IMHO, in the ergonomics of
: the dash, the moving seatbelts, the rear windows that don't go down all
: the way and the elimination of hatchback version.  Still, though a good
: design.

When this model was released, I thought - DULL.  Styling was good, but
mechanically, very ordinary... pure yuppie transportation. Where was the
innovation ?

The model has aged well however, and is still good value in it's class.

: The Civics seem to be getting slushier with time -- I test drove
: some these recently and I was underwhelmed.  Heftier price, more room
: but more of what I have traditionally disliked about many American cars.

The new civic is a very stylish car, but good looks do not and excellent
car make.  In this country, it suffers from two main problems.

1) Cost.  It is way way way overpriced
2) Engines.  Standard engines are not up to the task (they even sell a
   1.4l model in this country, what a dog.)  VTEC is not available here,
   and it should be STANDARD not some multi-thousand dollar option.

These problems mean that the new Civic is not the class leader that previous
model have been.  IN particular the Mazda 323/Astina (1.8l DOHC) offers
much better value for money

: And the new Legend coupe is also an Oldsmobile in disguise.  Haven't
: tried the NSX, though that is probably a big exception to this claim.

I have never liked the Legend, it just does not cut it in the luxury
market against the Europeans and other Japanese offerings such as
Lexus and Mazda 929

The NSX is a hand built car, and given the price, probably does not belong
in this sort of discussion.

: 
: And that new Prelude is the UGLIEST car I have seen a long time, with a
: dash that in my mind rivals old AMC cars in its lack of aesthetics.
: For the same money I'd rather have an old Civic.

Overlooking the styling, which seem to be a love/hate scenario, the new
Prelude is once again not an INNOVATIVE car in it's class.  There are
other cars from other manufacturers which are as good or better for the
same price or less....

The current Accord suffers from the same problem, as well as being (IMHO)
underpowered and boring to look at.

: 
: There was a time I would consider nothing but a Honda, but I felt the
: same betrayal upon seeing the new Prelude as I do when a favorite musical
: group of mine puts out a bad album or a computer company I admire puts out
: a weak new design.  Maybe I should look closer at Saturn.  They modeled
: their transmission after Honda's when Honda knew what it was doing.

Saturn are not available in this country, but I agree with your sentiments.
Four years ago, I would not have owned any other brand of car.  I drove
the new civic in 1988, and it was twice as good as the other Japanese offerings
at the time.  I bought one as soon as I could afford it, and it is still the
car I drive.  In the years since then, I feel Honda have sat on their laurels
to a great extent.  Their cars are still well styled, extremely well built
and very reliable.  But their innovative edge seems to have dropped away.
VTEC is a great idea, but they are simply not pushing it in their bread and
butter models.

I am afraid that apart from the NSX, I would rather own the equavilant model
Mazda these days.  Honda may be on the decline, but Mazda are certainly on
a building wave of great new models.

: 
: Jonathan
-- 

Robert Howlett              Internet: sgccrjh@citecuc.citec.oz.au
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