From: williamt@athena.Eng.Sun.COM (Dances with Drums)
Newsgroups: alt.supermodels,soc.women,alt.feminism,soc.men
Subject: Re: Elle MacPherson causes rape?
Date: 8 Nov 92 17:21:40 GMT
Reply-To: williamt@athena.Eng.sun.com (Dances with Drums)
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: athena

In article <BxC8n0.Au9@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> stevenra@feserve.cc.purdue.edu (Alex Stevens) writes:
>In article <1992Nov6.150355.9849@rtf.bt.co.uk> fletcher@rtf.bt.co.uk (Catherine Fletcher) writes:
>
>>By the way, anyone who has the slightest grasp of what sexism is and doesn't
>>understand why an Elle calendar is offensive and harmful and a Chippendales
>>calendar isn't probably has no aptitude for complex thought - therefore I
>>am resorting to condescending insult rather than reasoned explanation.
>>
>>-- 
>> Catherine 
>
>	You make it sound as if sexism only exists toward the female.
---
	Well, there are several things she said, she didn't say it was sexism
against women to have the calendar -- but that it was offensive and harmful.
She may be equating the two, but I don't read that in what Catherine wrote.

	As to your statement about sexism existing in the society.  I had
a major disagreement with someone about this with someone, and she
wasn't able to explain it in a fair manor, but took a short class
on Diversity in the Workplace that explained that 'ism' is something
that the group in power does or can do to the non-dominant power group,
so in our culture as a whole, blacks cannot be guilty of racism and
women can't be guilty of sexism.  In different power settings where
where blacks or women hold more power relative to men, the blacks or
women can be guilty of 'isms'.  In all cases the non-dominant power
group can be guilty of 'ist' (racist, sexist) behaviour.

	A minor technical point, but one I thought I would clarify.

-wat-


  The
>complex thought you don't see in others is shrouded by you closed mindedness
>or other factors(see below).  An Elle calender is offensive to those women
>who think they were cheated or are jealous of her.  You can't play God and
>save the women who want saving.
>	The only reason it is sexism is because the corporate male is
>(unfortunately) still in primary
>control and because of this "blatant, crule, exploitation" of the female
>mind, body, and soul,(of a rich VOLUNTEER to the system).  I THINK (my opinion)
>that the women who find the female model industry as exploitative are either
>insucure or are jealous that they don't have the bodies (or the money for
>plastic surgery - and a large percentage of models are not the voluptous, siliconed women, look at ELLE) or the brains to take advantage of the industry.  Even if
>the women are dubbed as "airheads" they are smart enough to be making the money.The numerous smart ones may just be using it to fund other ventures. 
>Chippendales and other male models, etc.. are doing the same.  It's basiclly
>"if you can look at half naked men dancing, wee can look at half-naked women
>posing---they're just making 10 times as much).
>	Maybe you feminists don't realize that many women like to adore
>and idolize these beautiful women.  And I know there are just as many men
>who wish they could look as good as a Chippendale.  Anyway, I'm blowing
>steam at a close-minded indiividual (oops, sorry, society doesn't allow
>you be an individual!!) and as I don't deem it necessary to think long
>and hard at every response I give, I'm done....flame back, cause you ain't
>the majority, no matter how much you believe.....and people like you
>just feed th sexism flames so people can laugh at you and wave it in your
>face....maybe you haven't realized the (extreme human) trait of ragging on
>someone about what they hate or refuse to listen to most...
>
>*whew*
>Alex
>stevenra@feserve.cc.purdue.edu


--
 --- "If women really earned fifty-nine cents to the dollar for the same
 work as men, what business could compete effectively by hiring men at
 any level?"    -- Dr. Warren Farrell
Newsgroups: alt.supermodels