From: c150-bt@po.berkeley.edu (Manish Vij)
Subject: Re: Are IAs close-minded ? (Re: Parental authority
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 23:20:01 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.220955.16165@cbnewsi.cb.att.com> alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia) writes:

>You just haven't met enough of II parents. Just as you perceive II parents to 
>have a superficial understanding of American culture because they are a mere 
>spectator as opposed to participants (although this assumption is also not
>necessarily true - many II parents were participants before they became
>spectators), one may argue that you have a superficial understanding of II
>parents because you have not had them as your parents (except your own 
>parents). You have not participated with them in a child-parent relationship.

I am basing my generalization on interaction with many II parents in the
Bay Area, at social events, cultural events, religious events, and community-
wide events.  I am also basing it on my analysis of the Indian culture, its
motives and structures, and I do not think I am wrong.

>I am glad to see that at least you have not bundled all the II parents in
>the rotten category.

Rarely does anybody claim that all are like this or all are like that.
But can generalizations be made?  In this case I'm fairly confident in
claiming that the Indian culture promotes such attitudes in II-in-America
parents.

>> If so, you are probably more tolerant and probably understand
>> other people better than most.  Can you see why an IA kid may grow
>> his hair long?  
>
>A need or desire to identify with a clique, perhaps.

Maybe because he thinks it looks good.  Maybe he just likes long hair. 
Maybe it doesn't involve insecurity.  Ever consider that?

>> Why an IA female may like dating non-Indians?  
>
>May be she sees something of value in it. May be she feels more comfortable
>dating them. May be she feels less obligated in dating them.
>Just recently an IA female confided that she dates Indians but she would
>not introduce them to her parents because they may start thinking about
>wedding. She however would like her parents to meet her American boyfriend(s).
>There is less of a 'wedding' obligation in that. 
>It is the 'fear' of wedding or getting into a committment ...

Maybe she likes not restricting herself to one specific set of people.
Maybe she likes non-Indian attitudes better than Indian ones.

>> Why IA's may like American music and dance styles?  
>
>A need to identify with American culture - feel part of America, feel less of
>an 'alien'.

Maybe I love to dance.

>You are stereotyping parents.

It is a valid generalization with a good sampling and good analysis.

>> You've observed that I'm willing to discuss cross-cultural issues.  
>
>But do you have an open mind towards non-American culture ?

Fairly open.

>How much do you know about, for example, your own heritage ?

A moderate amount.

>Have you ever bothered to travel to India for a visit ?

I was born and raised there until I was five.  I've visited at ages
8 and 16.  The last trip opened my eyes to a non-romanticized Indian
culture.

>Have you ever expressed interest in any non-American culture ?

Yes: Latino, Spanish, Pakistani, Gujarati, Punjabi, Japanese, 
to name a few.

Do you think that "hell-raiser" Manish is a coconut?

>Have you ever wondered that even with in America there are a multitude
>of sub-cultures which are distinctly different ? Do you know,
>for example, that the southern California culture is vastly different than
>Boston culture which in turn is different than Texas culture ?

Yes, I'm aware that I'm privileged to live in liberal California.  :-)

>> This is specifically because a feature of Indian culture is the
>> conservativeness and lack of tolerance which I abhor.
>
>Indian culture values tolerance and freedom despite whatever you may
>believe.  Have you ever wondered how so many religious, social, cultural
>and moral beliefs co-exist among 850 million people in India ?
>Sure there are occasional fights and tension, but by and large they
>have co-existed in relative harmony considering the level of diversity.

Ram Janam Bhoomi.
The Golden Temple.
The caste reservation issue.

Three recent examples of intolerance.  Partition riots: this is harmony?

Indian culture does NOT value the individual over the family.  It has
a muzzling, stifling effect on individual freedom in the family
setting.

>I agree that a lot of IA kids are rather sore with their parents.
>But why blame parents ? Have you ever thought that this could be due to
>the fact that the Indian culture/system they came from is vastly different
>than the American culture/system you are growing in ?  Isn't this difference

I understand why my parents are the way they are.  I just think they could
make a little effort to tolerate, to agree to disagree, and things would
be a WHOLE lot easier.

>To devise this compromise or joint platform, BOTH, the PARENT and the
>CHILD need to take interest in each other's culture with an open mind
>and try to understand the dynamics and subtlities of the OTHER culture.

Calling all open-minded II parents!

>I have seen a number of postings here from IAs saying that they would rather
>ignore IIs in dating or social interactions. How can then the IAs understand
>the Indian culture ? From books which are ancient ? From news media,
>which may give lopesided news ? From movies, which depict fiction and unreal
>more than the truth ? By observing their own parents, who may not represent
>the whole spectrum of Indian culture (but may represent only a tiny bit of it) ?
>
>Who is closed minded here ? Aren't IAs closed minded when they say, they
>will not date or socialize with IIs ?

I don't say I wouldn't date or socialize with II's.  In fact, I have found
the sweetest, coolest people among some II friends of mine.  But in my
experience, II's have such a different world-view most of the time that
I have to act as if I were hosting a foreign-exchange student, along with
all the awkwardness.  This is compounded even more because I am not at
ease with my identity enough to ignore the fact that II's look down upon
some of my American attitudes.

Manish
                                          /-\o /-()  -- -  --   -
   Manish Vij    ::    '89 EX500          \_/ \\/ )  -- -    --
   mvij@ocf.berkeley.edu                       |/_\  -- -  --   - 
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Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian