From: sjk@strl.labs.tek.com (Steven King)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Commitment, etc
Date: 15 Sep 92 19:28:37 GMT
Reply-To: sjk@strl.labs.tek.com (Steven King)
Followup-To: misc.kids
Distribution: na
Organization: Software Technology Research Lab, Tektronix, Inc.

In article <1992Sep15.123326.24631@cbnews.cb.att.com>, has@cbnews.cb.att.com (heather.a.strasburg) writes:

|> Just yesterday, in the Wall Street Journal review of books,
|> they discussed a book (can't remember the exact title) that
|> has the premise that we've become a nation of "victims" -
|> meaning that if we're all "victims", none of us is responsible
|> for what happens (or even what we do).  There were a few
|> examples which, if they weren't true and probably not all that
|> uncommon, would be funny, such as:
|> 
|> 	- A drunk man jumped in front of a commuter train.
|> 	  He was awarded $650,000 because the train hit him.
|> 
|> 	- A man who had been fired for embezzling $2,000 was
|>  	  reinstated because someone (a jury?) decided that
|> 	  his penchant for gambling with other people's money
|> 	  fell into one of the protected groups.
|> 
|> 	- A teacher who had been fired for constantly being
|> 	  late was reinstated and (I think) awarded back pay
|> 	  because "chronic lateness" is a disability.

There are a couple of books I've heard of that slam the recovery
movement.  One is "I'm Dysfunctional, You're Dysfunctional" and
deals with the recovery movement in general.  The other is "Recovering
From Recovery" and is a slam on the men's movement (at least the
"Iron John" style part of it).  Not that I feel there's something
wrong with recovery -- but as adults we must accept responsibility
for our actions instead of using our problems as an excuse or recovery
as a crutch.

|> I'm a bit fuzzy on some of the details, but you get the general
|> idea.  As to how this applies to this newsgroup - aside from
|> affecting each of us every day in small and large ways - we need
|> to teach our kids that they are indeed responsible for the
|> consequences of their actions.  

True, true.

I think part of the problem is adults are afraid that their children
will not love them if they discipline them.  I don't necessarily mean
spank.  I mean direction and correction - doing the sometimes un-
popular thing.  The adult is often dependent upon the child for
conditional love (e.g. If you give me candy then I will love you.
If you let me stay out until 1:00 a.m. I will love you) and never
move from the conditional love of the newborn/parent relationship to
the unconditional love born of respect for one another.  At some point
the child learns disrespect for the parent because they are so easy to
manipulate and don't teach that actions have consequences.

What I shoot for is respect from our children.  I also give them
unconditional love and approval for them as a person.  Love will
always follow respect and unconditional love.  It rarely follows the
disrespect that a co-dependent relationship will breed.

|> I'll get off my soapbox now - can you tell that this is one
|> of my peeves? :-)

In case you couldn't tell, it is one of my peeves as well.  :^)

Steven (sjk@strl.labs.tek.com)

"Sometimes if you have a cappuccino and then try again it will work OK."
(Dr. Brian Reid)  "Sometimes one cappuccino isn't enough." (Marcus Ranum)
"A double vanilla latte always works."  (Me)