From: conditt@tsd.arlut.utexas.edu (Paul Conditt)
Subject: Re: just passing through on way to alt.real-men.grunt.thud ....
Organization: Applied Research Laboratories, University of Texas at Austin
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 21:19:22 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.193426.19660@athena.cs.uga.edu> fuller@athena.cs.uga.edu (James P. H. Fuller) writes:
>
>bard@cutter.ssd.loral.com (J H Woodyatt) writes:
>
>> I agree with the sentiment that men who take every step available to
>> them to avoid reproducing, and who make it clear to their sex partners
>> that they do not wish to reproduce, are getting the Main Shaft when
>> their partners ignore their reproductive wishes and choose not to
>> abort an unplanned pregnancy.
>
>     MAJOR bogosity alert.  Has anybody told you how babies are made, JH?
>I can see you weren't born on a farm, bo.  A man who has sex with a woman
>has not only *not* taken "every step available" to avoid reproducing, he
>has in fact just taken the single *most* effective step there is to make
>reproduction possible and likely.  Do you know anybody who became a father
>by getting whacked on the head and having his sperm stolen by electro-
>ejaculation while he was out cold?  If you do, *then* I'll talk involuntary
>fatherhood.  But if you claim to be a MAN and you insist on poking the old
>goober into other people's business you better repeat to yourself I AM
>RESPONSIBLE FOR THE OUTCOME about four thousand times.  When you've done
>so not only will you have performed a respectable reality check, you'll
>also have put yourself into the mood you need to be a pretty decent daddy.
>    (Standard blather-avoidance: substitute "one" for "you" above if you
>claim to be a woman....)

EXCELLENT synopsis of the situation.  IMHO, one thing that seems to be
missing from the whole debate on abortion-rights is the issue of real
responsibility.  People in our society seems to always want to blame someone 
else for mistakes they have made.  I know of a case where a young boy, 13
years old, stepped out from between 2 parked cars on an interstate 
highway and was struck and killed by a truck.  There was already an
accident at the scene, so the truck was driving slowly and had moved over
into the left lane to give the people on the shoulder plenty of room.
The boy's mom, who almost got run over herself, is suing the truck driver
and the company for whom he worked.  She can't seem to handle that her son's
death was nobody's fault but his own.  It's certainly not the truck driver's
fault.

Now, back to the issue at hand.  There are always extenuating circumstances,
but it seems like if people were willing to take responsibility for their
own actions, then a whole lot of the situations where abortion becomes
an issue would be avoided.  If I want to make sure that I don't get a
woman pregnant, then the best thing for me to do is to not have sex with
her.  If I want to make sure I don't get AIDS, then the best thing for me
to do is to not have sex with anyone and not do drugs with needles.  If I
decide that I just *have* to have sex with someone and I don't want a
pregnancy in the situation, then I'd best take the responsibility *myself*
to try and prevent that from happening.  The same thing applies to women.
If you don't want to have sex with someone, tell them "no" up front, not
after half your clothes are off.  If you don't want a pregnancy, then *you*
take the responsibility to prevent it.  The key here is to plan ahead and
not wait until you're in the throes of passion to make these decisions.
I know for most men, the blood flow to the brain in such situations are
diverted somewhere a little bit south, therefore I can't count on myself
to think real clearly.

Believe it or not, we *all* have the right to choose what happens to our
bodies.  The thing that we don't seem to be willing to accept is *when*
that choice occurs.  The choice occurs *before* you have sex, not during
and certainly not after.  If a woman wants to preserve her right to 
choose to not have a baby, then she shouldn't engage in activities where
there's a possibility of that happening.  Same thing for men.  What is it
that makes it so hard to accept this responsibility?

> 
>
>> However, the rules of the game are dictated to men by anatomy. 
>
>    Nonsense.  The rules are dictated by behavior.  You don't want problems
>with involuntary fatherhood?  Just keep the zipper zipped and the wick dry.

Ditto.  Can't say it any better myself.

>
>
>

Paul Conditt

Newsgroups: soc.women,alt.feminism,alt.women,soc.men,misc.legal