HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bgahl@scuba.EBay.Sun.COM (Robert Gahl SunSoft DPT Software Engineer)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
Subject: Re: Recumbents
Date: 11 Jan 1993 19:13:28 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Federal, Milpitas, CA.
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: scuba.eng.sun.com
Keywords: bicycles

In article <1993Jan11.165728.22269@chpc.utexas.edu>, ezag637@chpc.utexas.edu (Steve Manifold) writes:
|> 
|> Just wondering.  Why is it that recumbent riders (well, some recumbent riders
|> at least) feel it necessary to preach their "recumbent is superior" sermon to
|> the rest of us.  We all know about recumbents and their advantages.  Why are
|> they so insistent?  Is it politically correct to ride a recumbent instead of
|> a diamond frame?

Well, as a Recumbent rider (Ryan), I might hazard a quess. It could be
a response to the general sneers, jeers, and general crap we take for
riding something other than a diamond frame, and being considered second
class citizens where biking is concerned, but then, I'm only guessing.

However, I would suggest some sort of banner on the back of your recumbent
(scrolling lights, maybe) that answer such mundane questions as (1) How do
you steer that thing, (2) Is it comfortable, and (3) Can you climb hills on
that, as a manditory item ;-)

Oh, and if someone begins to preach that recumbents are PC, then I might
be convinced to go back to a head-firster :-)
---
Bob Gahl KD6KMX Bicycle Mobile|ARPA/INTERNET: bgahl@scuba.Eng.Sun.COM
SunSoft DPT Software Engineer |UUCP:  ...[about anywhere]!sun!bgahl
"But nothing's predictable in this tough, harsh, highly competitive
 world where today's champion is tomorrow's crocodile shit." Monty Python
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
From: etxorst@eos.ericsson.se (Torsten Lif)
Subject: Re: Recumbents
Reply-To: etxorst@eos.ericsson.se
Organization: Ericsson Telecom AB
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 09:27:56 GMT

In article 22269@chpc.utexas.edu, ezag637@chpc.utexas.edu (Steve Manifold) writes:
>In article <%mikew.7.0@%MikeW@canc.byu.edu>, %mikew@%MikeW@canc.byu.edu (Mike Wieda) writes:
>> 
>> I've found a soloution to many of the complaints of contemporary cyclists:  
>> the recumbent bicycle.  
>> 
>(Lots of stuff about the "superiority" of recumbents deleted)
>
>Just wondering.  Why is it that recumbent riders (well, some recumbent riders
>at least) feel it necessary to preach their "recumbent is superior" sermon to
>the rest of us.

Just wondering. Why is it that bike riders (well, some bike riders
at least) feel it necessary to preach their "my bike is superior" sermon to
the rest of us?

Every week we get treated to several "I just bought a brand new X and
it's the best bike I've ever owned" postings from enthusiastic netters.
I don't see you jumping down their throats for preaching the merits of
Trek, Cannondale or other manufacturers. So some of us prefer bikes of
a drastically different desing and some of us after making the
relatively large committment to fork out $1000+ for a recumbent, vex
enthusiastic about it. So what?

>We all know about recumbents and their advantages.  Why are
>they so insistent?  Is it politically correct to ride a recumbent instead of
>a diamond frame?

If this guy had extolled the virtues of his brand new Trek, would that
have bothered you? Would you then have asked about Trek:s being
"politically correct"? Hardly. So what makes you unhappy when he posts
about his new recumbent? The fact that he may be able to rub you in the
ground with it, or...?

>Steve Manifold                                              University of Texas 
>ezag637@hermes.chpc.utexas.edu                           College of Engineering
>tasc637@crovax.cem.utexas.edu                       Center for Electromechanics

---
 Torsten Lif                          |   Upright bicycles are
 Ericsson Telecom AB, EO/ETX/TX/AD    |   a pain in the ass!
 S-126 25  STOCKHOLM, SWEDEN          |   
 Tel: +46 8 719 4881                  |   Be comfortable - ride a recumbent.

From: kruemp@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (John Kruempelstaedter)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 21:16:01 GMT
Subject: Re: Now that's a warranty!
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc

/ hpcc01:rec.bicycles.misc / ehouse@Apple.COM (Eric House) / 11:00 am  Jan  4, 1993 /
A friend of mine, who generally portrays himself as unable to afford any
of the Ti frames I've been considering (and doesn't appreciate the suggestion
that he ape me and dump his car for the cash :-), showed up with a new Ti
Fuji the other day.  How'd he get it?  Seems he went through five of their
top steel frames in three years and they finally got tired of paying for the
slaughter.

Kinda makes me wonder what to think of Fuji, though.  Are they a company
that makes consistently lousy frames, or one that backs their product up
no matter what it takes?  (I also find myself wishing *I* had the knees to
mash my way through frames like that.  Heck, I got 30,000 miles out of a
mid-range Univega.)
-- 
****************************************************************************
Eric House			"My employer doesn't share its opinions with
RAAM in '93?		   	 me, so I can share only mine with you"
----------

This may sound like a dumb question, but how exactly does one
destroy a steel frame by riding it. No accidents? What 
sort of damage did he do to the frames? I don't recall
even Jobst destroying too many frames.

I'm just curious,

John K.
From: wagner@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
Subject: Re: Buying a bicycle for a short person - I'm 5'2"
Date: 3 Jan 93 21:16:55 CST
Followup-To: rec.bicycles.misc
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

In article <18516@borg.cs.unc.edu>, barman@jackson.cs.unc.edu (Dilip Barman) writes:
> 
> 
> Hi -
> 
>      I have ridden my Panasonic for close to 10 years now and am very impressed
> with its strength and durability - but it's heavy!!
 
>      The only options I seem to have are Terry bike (but isn't it strange
> and uncomfortable having a small front wheel?), Kestrel (but for around 
> $2000!!!), and maybe a Canondale hybrid w/ drop handlebars - I might fit.
> Oh, and the other option is a custom bike which I understand will cost
> me around $1500 w/ good but not great components.
> 
>      Do you guys have other suggestions?  I know I'm short, but surely there
> are a good number of other short bikers.  I'm between 5'1" and 5'2".

	How about Barracuda Bicycles. They supposedly come in a variety of
frame sizes all the way down to 12 inches.
Xref: sparky rec.bicycles.misc:1901 rec.bicycles.racing:1093
From: v008pcqu@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (OFF-THE-FRONT)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: Re: Summary: Bicycling images FTP sites.
Date: 8 Jan 93 06:12:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1993Jan7.174750.1864@nmrb.bioch.ox.ac.uk>, miranker@bioch.ox.ac.uk (Andrew Miranker) writes...
>Well, I must say I did not have very much luck finding bicycle racing images,
>but there was plenty of response from people who would like to have some.
>Maybe someone would with a color scanner would like to volunteer?!
> 
>The only site I found contains just a few gif and jpeg files:
> 
>draco.acs.aci.edu
> 

     I'd be willing to voluteer.  Actually, I have quite a few images that
I've already got scanned but I'm not sure it's legal to post them or if anyone
even cares.  If anyone could give me advice on what to do I'd appreciate.
Also, if anyone wants requests, I could scan pictures of certain riders for
them.  I have a few of Indurain, Chiapucci, that cool Lotus bike, Bugno other
racers.  I have a lot more good pictures that I found in a French Tour de 
France magazine last year.  Just let me know what you guys want, and when I get
back to school, I'll try my best to scan them.
							Patrick
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
From: "Michael Smith" <p00004@psilink.com>
Subject: Re: I did a good thing today
Organization: Performance Systems Int'l
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 22:36:57 GMT
X-Mailer: PSILink-DOS (3.3)

>DATE:   Wed, 6 Jan 93 14:20:10 GMT
>FROM:   Tim Schorer <tschorer@hoh.mbl.edu>
>[....] I know where the trucks are, I know who the guy is and that he
>owns the business.  Some night when there's no moon and   I'm feeling like
>"Mr Vengeance" I'll see to it that bees will not have to be encumbered by
>any glass in that vehicle.
>
>Now insert your flames about how I'm a "criminal-in-waiting",no better than
>he is, and "that's not what cycling's about" here_________________________.

Sorry to disappoint, but dark of the moon is in about 2 weeks.

Be sure to leave a note. Happy hunting.


--Michael Smith
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
From: harry@cv.hp.com (Harry Phinney)
Subject: Re: Recumbents
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 20:14:23 GMT

etxorst@eos.ericsson.se (Torsten Lif) writes:
: If this guy had extolled the virtues of his brand new Trek, would that
: have bothered you? 

It only would bother me if he had stated that Treks weren't more
popular because of a conspiracy which effectively masked the true
greatness of the Trek, and had brainwashed everyone into buying and
riding other machines.


: So what makes you unhappy when he posts
: about his new recumbent? The fact that he may be able to rub you in the
: ground with it, or...?

Yeah, that's it.  I'm quaking in my cleats fearing I'll be blown off
the road by the next recumbent I encounter.

Harry Phinney   harry@hp-pcd.cv.hp.com
From: bob.noyes@spacebbs.com (Bob Noyes) 
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
Subject: Re: Black Ice - the defin
Date: 9 Jan 93 17:36:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: SPACE BBS - Menlo Park, CA - 10 Lines + 4gB - 415-323-4193
Reply-To: bob.noyes@spacebbs.com (Bob Noyes) 

<<***** On 01-09-93, JOBST BRANDT wrote to ALL: *****>>
>From: jbrandt@hplred.HPL.HP.COM (Jobst Brandt)
>Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 18:08:36 GMT
>Subject: Re: Black Ice - the definition (was Re: How do you deal with Black
Ice?)
>Message-ID: <4310015@hplred.HPL.HP.COM>
>Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Palo Alto, CA
>Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
>
>Joel Plutchak writes:
>
>> Exactly.  All we are seeing is a trend by the media to use more
>> technical (hence more exact and definable) terms when describing
>> meteorological phenomena.
>> ...
>> I guess we'll have to learn to live with the higher quality terms.
>
>I see you are impressed with gratuitous adverbs and adjectives and
>that they comprise "higher quality words".  I suspect that those who
>have posted as apologists for this trend are possibly part of it.
>I see no excuse to call icy roads "widespread black ice" as if there
>were something unusual about the nature of this ice. 
>

Jobst;

        Back east in the land of ice and snow we call very thin ice on a
road "glare" ice because it is so thin that it does not appear "white" as
ice would ordinarily appear on a road; it just reflects the sun as a glare.
From its usage and what I have seen over the years in the Bay area, I think
that "black" ice is the same as what is called "glare" ice. It is probably
called "black" ice because the black road underneath is so visible. Back
east we also have a category of ice called "black" ice but that is ice which
has frozen as clearas glass so that one looks through it to the water in the
lake below and the water's "blackness." You know that the Eskimos are
alleged to have over forty words for snow. They managed that without
television or exposure to us. The use of forty words or more for describing
various snows indicates a richness of vocabulary and precision that we do
not have. Just because you have not heard the term does not mean it is
incorrect or worthy of your ridicule.<g>





---
. VbReader V1.2  .This is not the dress rehearsal
                      
----
SPACE BBS - Menlo Park, CA - 10 Lines - BoardWatch Top Ten BBS
415-323-4193 (v.32bis) - 4gB (50,000 files) + Wx, UPI News, etc.
From: kim39@scws8.harvard.edu (John Kim)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
Subject: Re: Black Ice vs Summer Ice
Date: 12 Jan 93 10:02:39 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc3.1993Jan12.050240.19238
Distribution: na
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

.uwaterloo.ca> praetzel@maxwell.uwaterloo.ca (Eric Praetzel) writes:
>Glare Ice:  An improved Shimano product that has been polished by elves to
>  the point of perfect reflection (also a special density of water is required
>  to improve the Brewster angle).  Since so much work is required this (like
>  XTR) is expensive and hard to find.
>Rumour has it that Campy is coming out with a do-it-yourself kit where you
>just have to add water.
>- Eric 

Actually the Black Ice line has a glossy-yet-deep-black finish for
showing off how professionally black your bike is (like pro camera bodies)
while still providing enough polish to cause the occasional specular
highlight when they photograph you.  Very slick surface helps reduce
mud accumulation and most others wont' even notice it's there....
Shimano has named this the 105 ISC grupo.

Watch the mags for Campy's pending introduction of Ergo-Ice, with
more natural, ergonomic slipping and skidding than any Japanese-made
ice.  The project was code-named GELATO and Pro racers
are expected to use it in uphill stages so that their bikes get lighter
as they pedal, though this could be retarded by unusually cold mountain-
top temperatures.

-J. Case Kim
From: bobf@intermec.com (Bob Folline)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
Subject: Re: Audible greetings (was)Re: Drafting etiquette?
Date: 7 Jan 93 17:39:59 GMT
Reply-To: bobf@intermec.com (Bob Folline)
Organization: Intermec Corporation, Everett WA

In article <1992Dec27.184926.12987@waikato.ac.nz> jrdodd@waikato.ac.nz writes:
>
>I agree entirely about triathletes. Triathlon riding is more individualised,
>...
>  Try hanging around the transition area during a race and the
>vibes are particularly positive and fun.
>
>Jonathan.

Don't hang around the transition area.  Join in on the fun and you may find
we are as nice out on the course as we are in the transition area.  Much like
a veteran's road race we want to be frendly as we run you into the ground.
Then after the race you get pointers on how to get faster.

Enjoy.

Bob Folline
bobf@intermec.com
From: jasmith@admin1.memst.edu (John)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
Subject: Training questions.
Date: 4 Jan 93 13:00:31 -0600
Organization: Memphis State University

Hi again folks.
Well, I see that everyones shot down my idea about safety.  No more ideas
right now.  I'm sure you people wouldn't like my ideas anyway.  I curious about
training.  Do any of you cyclist think you have a good cycling program set up?
I'm not really interested in commuters training programs either.  I think their
too relaxed.  I don't have anything against commuters, but I don't consider 
that part of training.  I sure that some of you people might commute just as 
hard as you train and more power to you, but I'm not a commuter.  One question
about commuting.  When you commute are you taking a relaxing ride or are you 
getting a good work out.  I don't know.  All I know is sometimes I commute to
the fitness center to go swimming or to a park to play basket ball, and I'm not
going to get tired before I do the activity I was planning on doing.  My route
follows like this Saturdays 40-80 miles, Sundays 40-80 miles, Monday thru 
Friday 20 miles.  What I'm curious about is speed training.  Tell me about 
your speed training.  Are they 10 mile shots, 5 mile shots or what?  I really 
can't imagine only doing 5 mile shots with out doing multiple 5 mile shots.  
Or do you alternate every 2 to 5 miles with sprints?  What do you people do?  
Or do you even do any speed training.  I'd like some examples of training some
of you cyclist do?  How much mileage is a good number for a year? What's would
be considered excessive training or too much? 
Xref: sparky rec.bicycles.misc:1892 rec.bicycles.racing:1091
From: miranker@bioch.ox.ac.uk (Andrew Miranker)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: Summary: Bicycling images FTP sites.
Date: 7 Jan 93 17:47:50 GMT
Organization: Department of Biochemistry, University of Oxford
Originator: miranker@nmrb.ocms

Well, I must say I did not have very much luck finding bicycle racing images,
but there was plenty of response from people who would like to have some.
Maybe someone would with a color scanner would like to volunteer?!

The only site I found contains just a few gif and jpeg files:

draco.acs.aci.edu

Andrew

Email:     miranker@biochemistry.oxford.ac.uk
SnailMail: Inorganic Chemistry Laboratory, University of Oxford, 
           South Parks Road, Oxford  OX1 3QR
From: gnome@pd.org (Mike Mitten)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
Subject: Re: Now that's a warranty!
Date: 6 Jan 93 18:42:33 GMT
Organization: The Laughing Gnome Software Farm, Atlanta, GA, USA
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

John Kruempelstaedter (kruemp@hpcc01.corp.hp.com) wrote:
>This may sound like a dumb question, but how exactly does one
>destroy a steel frame by riding it. No accidents?

Last fall, I broke the seat tube on my Bianchi Backstreet.  I hit
a bump and felt something give.  I thought I had broken a spoke or
two, but when I looked at the wheels, they were fine.  I was really
confused, 'cause I knew I'd felt *something*.  Finally, I noticed
the place on the seat tube where it was separated.  There was a
rust on most of either end of the tube where it was broken,
1 - 2 inches above the bottom bracket.  The break went all the way
around, very evenly.  It looked to me, and to the guys at the shop,
as if a crack had started somehow, and slowly worked its way around
the tube, with the help, I suppose, of rain, other bumps, etc.

Bianchi replaced the frame and fork (to which there was no apparent
damage) with a beautiful new Prestige (!) frame and fork under
warranty.  The bike was 2 - 2.5 years old at that point.  Not only
that, but the shop (gratuitous plug:  Outback Outfitters and Bikes,
Atlanta, GA) did all the labor _under_warranty_, and *loaned* me a
mountain bike they keep around for rentals!

  -Mike

Mike Mitten - gnome@pd.org - ...!emory!pd.org!gnome - AMA#675197 - DoD#522
Irony is the spice of life.     '90 Bianchi Backstreet  '82 Suzuki GS850GL
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.marketplace
From: lloyd@leland.Stanford.EDU (William Koenig Lloyd)
Subject: Re: neoprene gloves?
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 93 06:51:50 GMT

In article <0fGTajaSMUE418PixS@transarc.com> Bill_Chiles@transarc.com writes:
>My friend and I have a pair of Spokes gloves, and we have found them to be
>comfortable down to 24 F.  In fact, I sweat in them at 24 F around the butt
>of my hand and wrists.  My friend wears glove liners and does not sweat.  I
>tend to be cold a lot and bitch about it a lot, but my hands have never been
>cold in my Spokes gloves.  Sometimes I think I should buy another pair and
>save them for when the current pair wears out, just in case they are
>unavailable in the future.
>
>Bill

Well, there are two opinions to everything.  I went out on a ride today, and it
was only 45 degrees out (but raining).  I was wearing Spokes gloves, and my
hands are still recovering.  I don't think they're a bit warmer than my
fingerless Descente gloves!  I have never had a time when I've used them and
my hands weren't cold.  I don't use them unless I have misplaced my other 
gloves or have forgotten how bad a job of insulating they do...

Bill (a different one...)
From: ehouse@Apple.COM (Eric House)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
Subject: Destroying frames (was Re: Now that's a warranty!)
Date: 7 Jan 93 16:17:16 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc, Cupertino, CA

In article <82470003@hpcc01.corp.hp.com> kruemp@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (John Kruempelstaedter) writes:
>/ hpcc01:rec.bicycles.misc / ehouse@Apple.COM (Eric House) / 11:00 am  Jan  4, 1993 /
>> [story of friend who went through 5 steel frames in 3 years deleted]
>
>This may sound like a dumb question, but how exactly does one
>destroy a steel frame by riding it. No accidents? What 
>sort of damage did he do to the frames? I don't recall
>even Jobst destroying too many frames.
>
>I'm just curious,

By riding them long and hard enough that they break, either at places
where stress is concentrated or at places weakened by bad materials or
workmanship.  Any frame will fail eventually, but the process is greatly
accellerated by the kind of stresses that rough riding styles or terrain
produce.  Bad welding technique can also make the metal near joints brittle,
as apparantly accounted for several of the frames in question.

Part of the problem, of course, is that low weight is prized on bike frames,
and this tends to encourage use of less durable materials (eg. thinner tubes).
If you read the _Bicycle Guide_ article on Litespeed Titanium you may have
noted that about 50 of the 8000 frames they've made have failed, and the
accompanying comment from Gary Helfrich (?), co-founder of Merlin, that this
is about the right percentage.  If they had any fewer failures, he said, it
would indicate that their frames were overbuilt.  That is, unnecessarily
strong and heavy.
-- 
****************************************************************************
Eric House			"My employer doesn't share its opinions with
RAAM in '93?		   	 me, so I can share only mine with you"
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.rides
From: neilf@delfin.com (Neil Frank)
Subject: Re: Bicycling through the Everglades?
Organization: Delfin Systems
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 22:28:16 GMT

lpratt@slate.mines.colorado.edu (Lorien Pratt) writes:
: weekend in March, and we were thinking of driving down to Homestead,
							    ^^^^^^^^^

Good luck finding it.....  I think it moved several miles to the west....

-nlf-
-- 
Neil Frank		Delfin Systems		408-748-1200
neilf@delfin.com	Santa Clara, CA.
--              Wisdom is Gained Through Experience,            -- 
--        Experience is Gained Through Error.... "Unknown"      -- 
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
From: dewolfe@ug.cs.dal.ca (Anarchy for Peace)
Subject: Re: How do you deal with Black Ice?
Organization: Math, Stats & CS, Dalhousie University, Halifax, NS, Canada
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 00:22:48 GMT

In article <g!-3a=p@rpi.edu> spinaa@rpi.edu (Matt Garretson) writes:
>In article <5825@gold.gvg.tek.com> jimd@pequod.gvg.tek.com (Jim Delwiche) writes:
>>Black ice is a left coast phenomenon, apparently. 
>
>Hmmm.... in my experience, it visits the right-hand-coast as well!  :(

That's what we call it in Nova Scotia...

Colin DeWolfe


Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
From: jdu@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (john.d.unruh)
Subject: Re: Now that's a warranty!
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 13:17:07 GMT

In article <82470003@hpcc01.corp.hp.com> kruemp@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (John Kruempelstaedter) writes:
>
>This may sound like a dumb question, but how exactly does one
>destroy a steel frame by riding it. No accidents? What 
>sort of damage did he do to the frames? I don't recall
>even Jobst destroying too many frames.
>
>I'm just curious,
>
>John K.

I broke a steel Tesch last summer.  It was not a crash.  The down tube
broke.  The crack ran from near the bottom of the tube at the weld between
the down and head tubes, around the down tube, and back to the weld.  I
was in a race and I had really funny sounds, like gravel in the tubes,
every time I hit a bump.  The next day I investigated carefully and found
the broken tube.  Note that I have not broken any other frames, including
Aluminum mountain bikes and steel and carbon road bikes.  I don't know 
what made this one break.

John Unruh
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc