From: strom@watson.ibm.com (Rob Strom)
Subject: Re: re:Response to RS and Intro
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 03:26:52 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM Research

In article <9204081256.AA05716@abvax.icd.ab.com>, "20583, BENNING, BRUCE" <abvax!iccgcc.decnet.ab.com!BENNING> writes:

|>   ** Please don't make the mistake of evaluating the whole Messianic
|>      movement based upon me. That would be like not believing in
|>      Yeshua because of something I said that offended you. If you
|>      want to meet Jewish believers in Yeshua, I can arrange it for
|>      you. But just because those folks don't have access to this
|>      newsgroup doesn't make them nonexistent.

I don't need to meet Jewish believers in Jesus; they're already
in my wife's immediate family.  I never disputed that they
exist.  I only objected to the way they were persuaded to
believe in Jesus.

|> 
|>    1) I am not Jewish. Before being married (my wife is Jewish) I
|>   considered converting. (Would that make my wife a Proselytizer?)

No.  You say your wife's brother is Messianic.  Was your wife
Messianic when you married her?  If so, and you were a Gentile
Christian and you considered converting to Judaism, then
I've learned something new about Messianic Jews.  Do they
convert Gentile Christians to Messianic Judaism?

If she was a practicing Jew and she knew you were Messianic
when she married you that would surprise me a bit.  If she's
still a practicing Jew now, that would surprise me a lot.
Were all these conversions:  yours, your wife's (if she
indeed became Messianic), and your wife's brother's -- independent?

|>   My wife didn't think that was needed.(BTW, I was married Sunday
|>   afternoon.)
|>   From comments made my many of my Jewish brothers, it doesn't
|>   matter if we in the Messianic movement are Jewish or not. Those
|>   who oppose MJ's say that those who were Jews before accepting the
|>   atonement of Yeshua are no longer Jews now. 

Well I oppose MJ's, but I don't say that.  Your brother-in-law
is halachically a Jew.  We would say that the religion he
practices is not Judaism, which is still consistent with saying
that he is a Jew.  He and your wife are free to return
to Judaism without undergoing a conversion ceremony.  You
may pass this information on to your wife and brother-in-law.


|>   My daughter starts HEBREW next year. I do these things to preserve
|>   the Jewishness of my heritage, and that of my wife's.
|> 
Your daughter is also halachically Jewish.  She is also
free to return to Judaism.  (I'm assuming that your
wife shares your religion and that she isn't bringing
your daughter up Jewish.  Do you plan a Bat Mitzvah?)

|>   My upbringing was "be a good person, and do the right things,
|>   don't break any of the -10 Commandments- and you will have a
|>   chance at HEAVEN. Sounds a little like Judaism.
|> 
Looks like you never got very far in your attempt to convert.
Where did the "heaven" part come from?

|>    2) I am not a leader in the Messianic Movement. I'm just a
|>   regular guy. My congregation is about 68% (as of last weeks count)
|>   Jewish. The leaders are all Jewish. You are just lucky enough to
|>   have me here because I have access through my brother's help.
|>           [Thanks again guy's]
|> 
Your brother also converted to Messianic Judaism?


|> 
|>   I don't talk about my early life an a unbelieving Gentile either.
|>   Would you like the short version or the long one about my life
|>   before I converted?  8-)

It's up to you.  I don't want to pry into your life.  
I understand why some people with no religion become
Christian.  I don't understand why someone with no
religion would become a Messianic "Jew".

-- 
Rob Strom, strom@watson.ibm.com, (914) 784-7641
IBM Research, 30 Saw Mill River Road, P.O. Box 704, Yorktown Heights, NY  10598