From: sasayb@caneel.unx.sas.com (Andy Barnhart)
Newsgroups: alt.fishing
Subject: Overbearing Environmentalists - was Re: Oregon/Washington fishing 
    trouble??
Date: 9 Apr 92 20:51:42 GMT
Article-I.D.: unx.1992Apr9.205142.3167
    <1992Mar30.163320.17113@yuma.acns.colostate.edu> 
    <1992Apr8.161018.12189@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> 
    <1992Apr08.235621.33873@yuma.acns.colostate.edu>
Distribution: usa
Organization: SAS Institute Inc.
Originator: sasayb@caneel.unx.sas.com
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In article <1992Apr08.235621.33873@yuma.acns.colostate.edu>, kjun@typhoon.atmos.colostate.edu (Pat Fitzpatrick) writes:
|> In article <1992Apr8.161018.12189@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> dixon@spot.Colorado.EDU (Life is real?) writes:
|> >Yeah, I have to agree...population growth is the root of all the
|> >problems. 
|> No, not necessarily. Lack of spawning grounds, wetlands, habitat is probably
|> more important. You have this and a 5-10 fish limit, and everything will be OK.
|> Oh, and of course, stop polluting. 
|> >So continue to promote environmentalism, right?  
|> OK, time for my soap-box. I advocate environmentalism (see above), but the
|> problem is these so-called "environmentalists" don't know when to quit.

I agree. I have seen situations where overfishing by sports fishermen is the problem,
but this generally happens only on small streams and all too popular or small lakes,
with trout or bass the fish in question. Even in these situations, with some exceptions
in the case of trout streams, it is usually the case that "the fishing is tough", not
that the fish are in danger of being totally eradicated. Slot limits to allow spawning,
and total creel limits to limit impact seem to work in these situations.

I am definitely expressing an opinion, based on snitches of info from articles, shows
and conversations. I don't have the statistics to back up the guess which I am about
to make: I don't think that a redfish, striper, salmon (I admit I'm not as sure about
this one) tuna, dolphin (saltwater - etc) of catchable size has even a 10% chance of
being caught by a recreational fishermen. With bass, trout and walleye, I would still
guess under 60%, which seems high until you consider that personal choices are probably
going to let half of those free.

Don't get me wrong (turn the flames down some), I am not for everyone keeping all their
fish. Just this morning I released the largest bass I ever caught. I just agree with
Pat Fitzpatrick (and I hope he doesn't mind my paraphrase); we are punishing the victims.

Does anyone out there have any real numbers (opinions are OK, too) to dispute my guesses?

|> 
|> Example-- Texas set a minimum limit on redfish of 12 inches. That was a good 
|> law. Then they raised the limit to 14 inches. I said, OK, that's reasonable.
|> Then they raised it to 16 inches. I said -- "wait a minute -- most redfish
|> caught don't get above 14 inches in the bay." THEN they raised it to 18 
|> inches!!!! Result - I went 5 years without catching a legal redfish!!!
|> 
|> Yes, I know redfish grow this large, but most of the year they are offshore
|> when they are this size. The bay fisherman just lost a fishery. There is the
|> possibility of catching a "legal" redfish in the fall when they move into
|> the marshes -- but wait a minute -- the marshes are gone due to development.
|> of course, this also means the young fish have no nurseries to grow up in
|> after the spawn. Therefore, what good is the 18 inch limit. It punishes
|> the fisherman and does not solve the problem -- lack of habitat.
|> 
|> Hence, extreme conservationists often do not help the problem, and can often
|> hurt it.
|> 

I think it might be OK to punish some fishermen; littering - lose your license,
clean up, pay fine. Same for too many fish, wrong size,wrong tackle (dynamite isn't
allowed here? it's not posted!), etc.

|> If theire objective is to stop people from fishing all together, they succeeded.
|> I gave up, and so did other people. Oops, loss of revenue, let's raise the
|> price of fishing licenses. Oh my gosh, look, now less people are fishing.
|> Should we raise the prices of licenses again? Maybe raise the size limit
|> of redfish to 20 inches?
|>  
|> Meanwhile, more condo's are built on the coast....
|> 
|> Pissed off and glad to be out of Texas......                                           
|> Pat Fitzpatrick                        (____)    /\
|>                                         * * *   /  \
|> Said one meteorologist                 * * *   /    \
|> to another: "I was afraid               * * * / The  \
|> of this when we started                      / Rocky  \          
|> mixing female hurricanes                    / Mountain \        / \ 
|> with male hurricanes.                      /  Coon-ass  \   CSU | | 
|> Now there's lots of little           _________________________________________
|> hurricanes popping up everywhere."  | E-mail kjun@typhoon.atmos.colostate.edu |
|>                                      -----------------------------------------
|> ***********************************************************************


Andy (got my flame proof jammies on)
Newsgroups: alt.fishing