From: lb@cs.man.ac.uk (Luben Boyanov)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia,soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: Vera offers thoughts on Macedonia crisis
Date: 9 Sep 92 13:53:58 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.yugoslavia
Organization: Dept Computer Science, University of Manchester, U.K.

In article <1992Sep9.094200.10134@eua.ericsson.se> osstlm@eua.ericsson.se (Tomas Lundstrom) writes:
>I have a few questions on this intricate issue of Macedonia:
>(Please no Greeks, I want to hear the 'Slav' Macedonians version)

There are also several 'Slav' "versions" on Macedonia, alas :-(. I've
consulted many non-Slav books from the start of the century recently, and
may try to provide you with some answers, which are as much close to those
"impartial" versions as possible. 

>was called "Paeonia" on these maps. Later (from the middle ages or so)
>the term "Macedonia" has changed to denote a larger geographical area,
>today embracing parts of Greece, Albania(?), Bulgaria and the (X) Yugo
>republic of Macedonia.
>
>Is this correct ?

Yes.

>Has there ever been an independent Macedonia since they lost to the Romans ?

No. The first attmepts for establishing independent Macedonia date after ~1890
and the most famous one is during 1903 - the Ilinden uprising. From that time
there is no recorded objection to the name "Macedonia".

>Written Macedonian is not known before 1790. Correct ?

Partly. I've never heard/seen references to a written Macedonian
book/language before 1944 in any book on Macedonia. And I've seen lots of
documents issued by Macedonians and Macedonian organizations (incl. IMRO)
before 1944, and they are all in Bulgarian.

>How long has spoken Macedonian been regarded a distinct language ?

In literary sence - since 1944-5.

>How close is it to Bulgarian ? Some label it a "dialect" of
>Bulgarian. Is this unfounded ?

Let me try to give you one "impatial" view on the matter (Peace Handbooks,
1920 - Macedonia - p. 13) 

"The Macedonian Slavs speak a dialect, or rather various very similar
dialects, of the Slavonic tongue. They would be understood by either Serbs
or Bulgars, though their language on the whole is more like Bulgarian than
Serbian; but this distinction must not be pressed. Like the Bulgarians most
Macedonian Slavs use the suffix article, and words which in Bulgar have an
'l' have it also in Macedonian, while it is omitted in Serb ..."

And from an old posting which I have kept, there is even more detailed
explanation:

#Macedonian and Bulgarian are two LITERARY languages, in the sense that
#they each have their own codified, normative grammars that are in official
#use in their respective countries.  Historically they are both part of the
#same dialect area: old texts that originated in Bulgarian or Macedonian
#territory differ from each other only in subtle ways.  Structurally, the
#Bulgarian and Macedonian dialects (and standard languages, for that matter)
#are rather close, more like each other than similar to any other Slavic
#language.  The lexical differences between the two literary languages
#have much to do with cultural contact in recent centuries: Bulgarian looked
#eastward, to Russian Church Slavic for a significant layer of its vocabulary,
#while Macedonian looked to Serbian.

#Those who are interested in following up on this might want to start
#with the following reading:

#(1) Articles on Bulgarian and Macedonian in: R. G. A. de Bray, Guide
#to the South Slavonic Languages (= Guide to the Slavonic Languages, vol.
#1).  Columbus: Slavica, 1980 [3rd ed.].

#(2) 2 articles: (a) Vivian Pinto, "Bulgarian," and (b) Blaze Koneski,
#"Macedonian," in The Slavic Literary Languages: Formation and Development
#(ed. by A. Schenker and E. Stankiewicz), pp. 37-51; 53-63.  New Haven:
#Yale Concilium on International & Area Studies, 1980.

#Marc L. Greenberg		greenbrg@ukanvax


There are also a "Serbian", "Bulgarian", and "Macedonian" version on the
subject. However, I hope that the quoted texts give the most "impartial"
answer than all.

>Thanks,
>
>Tomas.

Regards

Luben