HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch)
Subject: Re: coffee grnds, aluminum pots unhealthy??
Organization: Advanced Decision Systems; a div of Booz, Allen & Hamilton
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 19:17:22 GMT

mfabrega@raynet.com wrote: 
->Another question: my espresso maker is made of aluminum, which is possibly
->risky, since aluminum has been linked w/ Alzheimer's.  Any data on this?

there was, but i forgot where i left it ...

--
# henry mensch / booz, allen & hamilton, inc.  / <henry@ads.com>
From: pae@blackcat.stortek.com (Phil Earnhardt)
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
Subject: Re: How to work all muscles
Date: 10 Sep 92 22:20:05 GMT
Organization: StorageTek, Louisville, CO

In article <1992Sep8.075521.6549@iscsvax.uni.edu> westendorf@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:
>Does anyone out there know of a list of exercises that will work all muscles.
>I'm trying to lose weight and wanted to build a little more muscle mass.  I
>have access to a weight bar and some weights.  Thanks

Muscles where you're in a standing position *and* doing something with your
arms will get most of the major muscle groups. If you've seen any Nordic Track
ads, you know that x-c skiing (and Nordic Track machines) do this quite well.
Lower-tech (and lower-cost) upper-body exercise can also be accomplished by
using hand weights when walking (outside or on a treadmill), exercising on a
stationary bike, and using a stair-climbing machine.

You can even use hand weights while doing step aerobics, but be careful!
There appears to be a linkage to using hand weights on steps and and
lower-body injury.

One non-weight-bearing exercise that zaps most of the body's muscle groups is
rowing. The Concept II erg is the superior exercise machine for this. Note:
the rowing stroke is quite subtle; it's easy to do it incorrectly. If at all
possible, get an experienced rower to coach you periodically on the erg.

You may want to get a copy of _The New Fit or Fat_ for a whole lot more
information about this. In particular, to lose fat, you want to be spending
the majority of your time in aerobic exercise. Weight lifting is a fine
supplement to aerobic exercise, but it should not be the dominant activity in
your program.

> Mary

--phil
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: seema@playfair.Stanford.EDU (Seema Sonnad)
Subject: Re: following weight workout with aerobic workout?
Reply-To: seema@playfair.Stanford.EDU (Seema Sonnad)
Organization: Stanford University
Distribution: misc
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 18:38:11 GMT

Yes, it is a good general regime.  You want to be sure you are doing at least 20-30 minutes of
the aerobics work.  You might also find that you are happier and less tired by the exercise if you
alternate days doing the upper body work and the lower body/aerobics work.
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: aleck@athena.mit.edu (Aleck H Alexopoulos)
Subject: Re: Mr. Olympia results
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Distribution: misc
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 23:12:49 GMT

In article <TAPI.92Sep13130336@kannel.lut.fi>, tapi@lut.fi (Tapio Lammi) writes:
|> Results from Mr. Olympia contest, held in Helsinki 12.9.1992.
|> 
|>  1. Dorian Yates

The "shadow" sees the light!

|>  2. Kevin Levrone

This was the biggest surprise for me. The guy is really good 
but 2nd place on your first Mr Olympia contest is really 
oustanding!

|>  3. Lee Labrada

The "flea" does it again! He must have come in really sharp, cant wait 
to see pictures. 

|>  4. Shawn Ray

Shawn gets beat out by Lee. Thats another surprise for me. 

|>  5. Mohammed Benaziza

I think he deserves it but i didnt expect him to place this high. 

|>  6. Vince Taylor

The second biggest surprise! What happened? The guy was killing em in all 
the contests and now 6th? Was he that much off? 

|>  7. Sonny Schmidt

I think Sonny should place higher. Maybe if he improves his posing....

|>  8. Porter Cottrell
|>  9. Ron Love
|>  10. Thierry Pastel

AND: Whatever happened to Lou?????? 
|> 
|> Lee Haney wasn't competing this year..
|> 
|> 	Tapio


Aleck H Alexopoulos

P.S. Question: How many chicken breasts does 
Matarazzo eat per day?
From: mickw@autodesk.com (Mick Washbrook)
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
Subject: Re: MUSCLE by Samuel Fussell
Date: 4 Sep 92 21:09:33 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.033029.22776@math.ucla.edu>, barry@arnold.math.ucla.edu (Barry Merriman) writes:
> In article <17564@autodesk.COM> mickw@autodesk.com (Mick Washbrook) writes:
> 
> Just bear in mind that its about people with personality disorders, not
> necessarily representative of the majority of weightlifters, or

No I didn't!
:-)

Actually, I thought that Fussell's point was that anyone taking
bodybuilding to this extreme had a personality disorder; I don't
know where he would draw the line between being extraordinarily
dedicated to bodybuilding, and being obsessed with it.

> His powerlifting was pitiful (385 bench, ~600 lb squat @ 250 bodyweight)

Yeah--pitiful!!

:-(



--
From: v088ptfu@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
Subject: antacid loading
Date: 14 Sep 92 22:30:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

Hello netters,
I have a physical fitness test coming up soon which among other things requires
a timed 3 mile run.  Although this is by no means a far run, I have fallen out
of shape and feel strong lactic acid buildup which I am confident has hurt my
endurance.  This is a very important timed test, and although I am aware of the 
necessity of real training (which I intend to start again) over shortcuts, I
would like to increase my endurance by physiologically buffering lactic acid
by using a powdered antacid.  However, I am not sure of which sources are the
best or at what doses I should take them.  Are there any endurance athletes out
there who can help me out?  Your help would be strongly appreciated.

					the hung one

ps  feel free to e-mail me or share your knowledge with the rest of the world
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: mvm@caesun6.harris-atd.com (Matt Mahoney)
Subject: Iron and heart disease (Was: Re: Caffeine)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 19:56:20 GMT
Reply-To: mvm@epg.harris.com (Matt Mahoney)
Organization: CAE Design Center, Harris Corp., Melbourne, Fl.

bednarek@picard.med.ge.com (Dennis Bednarek Mfg 4-6971) writes:
 
>From what I just heard on TV dhat iron depletion may not be all bad.  They
>have found some coreolation(sp) between high iron levels, and heart attacks.

If it's a correlation, I'm not too worried.  It's probably because the
best source of iron is red meat.  I read about the study in the newspaper 
a few days ago, but it didn't say whether it was a correlation or a 
controlled experiment.

--------------------------------        _\/_
Matt Mahoney, mvm@epg.harris.com       |(TV)|  Drug of the Nation
#include <disclaimer.h>                |____|

Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: jbaron@dirac.ssc.gov (Jeff Baron)
Subject: Re: Last Time: Exercise Bulimics
Reply-To: jbaron@dirac.ssc.gov (Jeff Baron)
Organization: Superconducting Super Collider Lab
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 16:09:45 GMT

In article <1992Sep8.130933.14756@sei.cmu.edu>, 
				aw@sei.cmu.edu (Anne Wulffraat) writes:
- 
- This is my last post on this subject. ...
- 
- So relax, everyone, I'm done.

Quick- someone stick a fork in.

Newsgroups: misc.fitness,rec.running,sci.med
From: derion@VAX309.NOSC.MIL (Toni Derion)
Subject: Re: Pain in Lung
Reply-To: derion@VAX309.NOSC.MIL
Organization: Naval Health Research Center, San Diego, CA
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 18:48:38 GMT

In article <1992Sep11.154842.9138@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, rbanksjr@nyx.cs.du.edu (Richard E. Banks Jr.) writes:
>
>I recently started an exercise program that requires among other things
>that I jog twice a week.
>
>Yesterday while jogging I felt a slight pain in my right lung.
>As I went along the pain progressed to the point where I had to stop
>and walk.  The pain died down and I commenced jogging, but it came
>back again.  I also notice this same pain in the same lung when
>doing intensive sets of jumping jacks.  What could be the cause
>of this?  How might I prevent this from happening again?
>

This sounds like a side stitch to me.  It is a common occurrence and 
is really nothing to worry about medically.  I exercise a lot, both
swimming and running, and have figured out how to keep it from
happening.  My remedies may or may not work for you, but this is
what I do.  I make sure I don't eat dairy products for several hrs
before exercise (milk, cheese, ice cream), and generally try to stay
away from all food for at least 2 hrs beforehand.  Even drinking water
soon before I exercise brings these stitches on.  If I get one while
I'm running, I usually run with my hand on my head for awhile-- the
hand of the side that the pain is on.  It looks silly, but it works
for me!  I don't think the medical community is settled on exactly
what causes these side stitches.  I once had a professor tell me he
though it was the spleen contracting, i.e. dumping more blood into
the circulation for the exercising muscles.  I think that theory is
hogwash, since for one thing humans don't dump much blood from the 
spleen during exercise (race horses dump A LOT, however).  For another
thing, I had my spleen removed 14 yrs ago and I still get those
stitches!  (Good thing I'm not a race horse-- I'd be a good candidate
for the glue factory....)  :-)
Other more viable theories include ischemia (insufficient
blood supply) of the diaphragm or accessory muscles used in breathing.
I think there must be some gastrointestinal component since I seem to
get these stitches more often if my stomach has food or drink in it.
(Maybe the digestive system is competing with the respiratory muscles
for blood?)

Anyone have any other ideas?

TD
Xref: sparky misc.fitness:7235 ba.food:3197
From: dan@BofA.com (Dan Brockman)
Newsgroups: misc.fitness,ba.food
Subject: Re: coffee grnds, aluminum pots unhealthy??
Date: 11 Sep 92 16:26:48 GMT
Organization: Bank of America, Capital Products, RMTG #5906

In article <1992Sep8.191722.13977@ads.com> henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch) writes:
>mfabrega@raynet.com wrote: 
>->Another question: my espresso maker is made of aluminum, which is possibly
>->risky, since aluminum has been linked w/ Alzheimer's.  Any data on this?

A half remembered factoid from high-school chemistry class tells me the 
aluminum in an expresso maker is biologically inert so that eaten molecules
are not absorbed into the body.  However, the aluminum compounds in 
baking powder have me concerned.  Implication:  look out for pancakes 
fried in an aluminum skillet (i.e. look out for the pancakes, the
skillet will not hurt you).  Can anyone verify or counter this stuff?


-- 
 --------------------------------------------------------------
 Daniel Brockman             tel 415-953-0406, fax 415-622-2892
 Bank of America, Dept 5906, 555 Calif St
 San Francisco 94104 USA    email uunet!odinba!dan dan@BofA.COM
From: clong@remus.rutgers.edu (Chris Long)
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
Subject: Re: Exercise Bulimics
Date: 6 Sep 92 22:06:32 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

I get it now.  You're trying to take something that bodybuilders do
and make it sound terrible so you can write a thesis on it.

Get a real thesis.
-- 
Chris Long, 265 Old York Rd., Bridgewater, NJ  08807-2618

"In a study of schoolboys, an educator discovered a correlation between size
 of feet and quality of handwriting.  The boys with the larger feet were,
 on the average, older."        Wallis & Roberts, _The Nature of Statistics_
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: tapi@lut.fi (Tapio Lammi)
Subject: Mr. Olympia results
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 10:03:38 GMT
Distribution: misc
Organization: Lappeenranta University of Technology, Finland

Results from Mr. Olympia contest, held in Helsinki 12.9.1992.

 1. Dorian Yates
 2. Kevin Levrone
 3. Lee Labrada
 4. Shawn Ray
 5. Mohammed Benaziza
 6. Vince Taylor
 7. Sonny Schmidt
 8. Porter Cottrell
 9. Ron Love
 10. Thierry Pastel

Lee Haney wasn't competing this year..

	Tapio
From: laurie@tcom.stc.co.uk (Laurie Constantin)
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
Subject: Re: Competative powerlifting for women
Date: 14 Sep 92 14:01:20 GMT
Organization: BNR Europe, New Southgate, London.



	Janice Green wanted to know some results of women's powerlifting meets
	in UK/Europe. I happen to have some from the European Drug Free Meet
	held in France earlier this year. Winners only, weights in pounds,
	converted from kgs so may be approximations here and there.

	
	Class	Squat	Bench	Deadlift	Total
	-----------------------------------------------
	97lbs	165	77	220		462
	104.5	288	176	286		748
	122	324.5	165	324.5		814
	129	280.5	143	357.5		781
	139	297	143	341		781
	154	319	165	379.5		863.5
	176	335.5	176	346.5		858
	-----------------------------------------------


	Please remember this was a drug free meet.


-- 
+------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Laurie Constantin,     | You can sail across the water, float across the sky.|
| <laurie@tcom.stc.co.uk>| Any road that you take will get you there,          |
| BNR Europe Ltd, UK     | if you only try.    - MJJ                           |
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
Subject: Re: Bodybuilding Hilarity II
Date: 15 Sep 92 22:25:00 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <9209151918.AA23715@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU> SSDC2@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU (J Green) writes:
>>From: poo@athena.mit.edu (Claude Poux)
>
[...]
>>his training routine, he said, included  "doing shoulders and deltoids on
>>tuesdays."  now, which ones do you think he does first?  :)
>ha! this is great!
[....]
>>york city, finishing with "it's gonna be lots of sickness for thickness to
[....]
>sickness for thickness???

Seems to be working, huh?

GMS
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
Subject: Re: following weight workout with aerobic workout?
Date: 15 Sep 92 13:44:54 GMT
Article-I.D.: henson.1992Sep15.134454.10104
Distribution: misc
Organization: Western Washington University

jefft@athena.mit.edu (Jeff Tang) writes:


>Is this a reasonable regimine?  Three times a week an hour of upper body
>weight work, followed by some lower body aerobic workout (lifecycle,
>stairmaster, or walking/running).

You ought to add some weight training to your lower body also, or you
will start to look funny after a while.

Squats, leg extentions, and leg curls would be a good start.

JD
From: agrawal@alicudi.usc.edu (Amitabh Agrawal)
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
Subject: SideStitches (was Re: Pain in Lung)
Date: 11 Sep 1992 16:14:02 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: misc
NNTP-Posting-Host: alicudi.usc.edu


In article <1992Sep11.184838.26297@nosc.mil> derion@VAX309.NOSC.MIL (Toni Derion) writes:

... stuff deleted

   This sounds like a side stitch to me.  It is a common occurrence and 
   is really nothing to worry about medically.  I exercise a lot, both
   swimming and running, and have figured out how to keep it from....

   Anyone have any other ideas?

What seems to have worked for me is a lot of abs exercises. When I was
younger but with poor abs I used to get a lot of side stitches but
since I have started working on my abs the problem seems to have
disappeared. 

Amitabh 
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: jat8419@ritvax.isc.rit.edu (TRAUMA JUNKIE)
Subject: Re: chest muscles
Reply-To: jat8419@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 02:28:04 GMT

Bench press
Flys
cross cables
dumbell press
push ups
incline press
decline pree
decline press
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
John A. Ternay
Emergency Medical Services Certified First Responder
Pre-Medical Studies				R.I.T. Ambulance
MD2B					Cornwall Volunteer Ambulance Corps.
			"Trauma Junkie"
            "We make house-calls....all night long"
                                                   
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: bednarek@picard.med.ge.com (Dennis Bednarek Mfg 4-6971)
Subject: Re: Caffeine
Organization: GE Medical Systems, Magnetic Resonance
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 06:33:47 GMT


From what I just heard on TV dhat iron depletion may not be all bad.  They
have found some coreolation(sp) between high iron levels, and heart attacks.
I wish I knew more as this sounds interesting with loads of people gulping
down iron suplements that may bve doing more bad than good?

Dennis


--

  
###############################################################################
###NEVER - NEVERMORE###########################################################
###############################################################################
####################################What are the contents of the oblong box?##
###############################################################################
  The usual disclaimer of self and employer applies to all above comments.
#
From: mickw@autodesk.com (Mick Washbrook)
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
Subject: Re: Charges Filed Against Makers Of Nutritional Supplements
Date: 4 Sep 92 21:16:49 GMT

In article <1992Sep03.231944.18718@eng.umd.edu>, georgec@eng.umd.edu (George B. Clark) writes:
> It is both illegal and fraudulent to claim a protein supplement will
> help make you stronger.

That's why the smart supplement producers (like Cybergenics) are now
advertising their products as part of an integrated system; there's
still no evidence their supplements are any good, but follow their
suggested workout, and you *will* improve your physique. I'm sure
they're still making *million$*.

--
From: aw@sei.cmu.edu (Anne Wulffraat)
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
Subject: Last Time: Exercise Bulimics
Date: 8 Sep 92 13:09:33 GMT
Organization: Software Engineering Institute


This is my last post on this subject. (You're welcome.) But for all of you
who insisted on being rude or informing me that no problem exists, you may
be interested to know that I have received personal mail from 27 males from
this bboard alone who are having real problems with exactly what I asked
about. In addition, I have heard from 8 who have recovered and 12 who are
working with individuals who have these problems. I thank them all for
their help. 

For those of you who took the posts as an accusation or an attack on fitness,
please note that I am a weight lifter and aerobics instructor among other
things and I generally spend 3 hours a day in the gym.

So relax, everyone, I'm done.
From: clong@remus.rutgers.edu (Chris Long)
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
Subject: Re: MUSCLE by Samuel Fussell
Date: 4 Sep 92 23:13:24 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

In article <1992Sep3.033029.22776@math.ucla.edu>, Barry Merriman writes:

> Also, fussel was hardly an accomplished bodybuilder or powerlifter.
> His powerlifting was pitiful (385 bench, ~600 lb squat @ 250 bodyweight)
> ( a good lifter would put 200 lbs on both those numbers; I can nearly
> do those at 203 lb bodyweight), and his bodybuilding was better, but not  
> remarkable for a guy who chowed on roids and did nothing but train for a 
> couple years.

I agree.  The book is filled with inconsistencies regarding how much
weight he could lift and his measurements, as well as that for other
people.  His friend Vinny was supposed to be this huge, powerful,
guy who could squat well over 600, and later in the book Sam claims
he eventually surpassed Vinny, yet at another point in the book
he claims to have gotten his squat up to 500 (not the 600 you give,
Barry).  And I find it hard to believe that this Vinny guy couldn't
bench more than whatever pathetic Sam was benching.  And remember,
Sam benched 225x12 the first time he tried benching ... right.

The book has nothing good to say about bodybuilding, since it wouldn't
sell otherwise.  It's mind candy, nothing more.
-- 
Chris Long, 265 Old York Rd., Bridgewater, NJ  08807-2618

"In a study of schoolboys, an educator discovered a correlation between size
 of feet and quality of handwriting.  The boys with the larger feet were,
 on the average, older."        Wallis & Roberts, _The Nature of Statistics_
Newsgroups: misc.misc
From: khan@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (Scott Coleman)
Subject: Is the Univeristy of Puerto Rico on the Net?
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1992 01:02:13 GMT

I'd like to know if there's a way to send email to a friend of mine who is a
student at the University of Puerto Rico. Unfortunately, this person is a
complete novice when it comes to computers, networks, and email, so there's
not much chance that she'll discover this stuff on her own. If anyone out
there can help me out, please send me some email. Thanks, I appreciate it!

--
Scott Coleman                                                    tmkk@uiuc.edu

Free Advice: It is inadvisable to read Bush's lips at an official banquet.
Xref: sparky misc.misc:3268 misc.entrepreneurs:2715 biz.misc:97
From: spt@waikato.ac.nz (Simon Travaglia)
Newsgroups: misc.misc,misc.entrepreneurs,biz.misc
Subject: Re: Name/Mailing.. I'M TELLING MUM!
Date: 7 Sep 92 16:02:43 +1200
Organization: University of Waikato Computer Centre

In article <18eefgINNajd@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>, aryeh@cash.ucsc.edu (Aryeh Friedman) writes:
> In article <6480@vtserf.cc.vt.edu> cs230444@vttcf.cc.vt.edu (cs230444) writes:
>>Need names for your mail-order, MLM, or other venture?
>>	...shit deleted...
>>
> 
> Who said you can post this trash to the net and exspecially
> m.e!!!! 

Yes.  You should've posted it with the message header:
	Newsgroups: *.* <except for aryeh@cash.ucsc.edu>

>You have broken at least half a dozen guidlines and restrictions 

You're in BBIIIGG trouble *now* Mr!

> 		Do not cross post to so many groups

..like what i done...

> 		You do not use the nsfnet for commerical use
> 		You do not use educational resources for commerical gain

Must be a stutter

> 		You do not solict money on the net!!!!

Right.  Quick, get rid of the For Sale conferences like Misc.wanted as soon
as poss, before he sees them.  And kill alt.sex.for.money.contacts.
Can clarinet.* as well

> 		You do not use the net to conduct frauds

Doesn't sound like a fraud yet until he doesn't deliver..

> You should be aware I am informing all apporite authorities of this miss use
> of the net!

NOW YOU'RE *REALLY* *REALLY* IN TROUBLE.  HE'S GUNNA TELL!!!

-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
Simon P Travaglia,   || Kia Kaha E Hoa!  
University of Waikato|| PSI:0530171000004::, Intr: spt@grace.waikato.ac.nz
Private Bag, Hamilton|| Disclaimer: No-one here but me can read and write,
New Zealand          ||             and I can only write.  What did I say?
-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
The brain is a wonderful organ; it starts working the moment you get up in the
 morning, and does not stop until you get into the office.	- Robert Frost
Newsgroups: misc.misc
From: bhathena@ug.cs.dal.ca (Firdaus B Bhathena)
Subject: Starting a newsgroup
Organization: Math, Stats & CS, Dalhousie University, Halifax, NS, Canada
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 03:05:33 GMT


     Does anyone know the procedure for starting a new newsgroup

      on this net??


						   ....Firdaus

Newsgroups: misc.misc,rec.antiques,sci.chem,sci.engr.chem,sci.geo.geology,sci.materials,sci.misc,trial.rec.metalworking
From: loriae@cray.com (Lori Inglett)
Subject: brass
Summary: lacquer coating
Originator: loriae@teak33
Keywords: brass lacquer polish chip
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 14 Sep 92 15:54:34 CDT


Hello,

I was cleaning the wax out of some brass candlestickes the other day when I
noticed that some of the lacquer coating was starting to buckle and chip.  
Does anyone know of a method or a chemical to remove the lacquer coating 
without damaging the brass underneath it?

Thanks!  
Please email responses, as I don't usually read this group.

-Lori  loriae@cray.com
-- 
****************  Lori Anne Elisabeth Schneider Inglett ********************
*                       loriae@teak.cray.com                               *
***************************  ext 5294   ************************************
Newsgroups: misc.misc,rec.antiques,sci.chem,sci.engr.chem,sci.geo.geology,sci.materials,sci.misc,trial.rec.metalworking