HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Melmon, pro or con
Date: 28 Jan 1993 10:07:41 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <smith_bob_e-280193085613@130.252.150.115> 
smith_bob_e@tandem.com (Mod Bob) writes:

> PS- By the way, is there any precedent in the group for this sort of
>     voice-vote referendum on an individual?  Seems rather less than
>     genteel, to me.  And no, replying that "neither is Matthew" cuts
>     precisely no ice with me.

I haven't noticed anything *quite* like this referendum (and, in
case you're wondering, I abstain), but there was a period not all 
that long ago (during which I was dealt with lovingly and considerately 
by Clay Bond) when I thought I might be put to a vote.

Arne
From: - (K)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Van Damme
Followup-To: soc.motss
Date: 28 Jan 1993 02:11:47 GMT
Organization: -
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: hair.engin.umich.edu

I saw Van Damme's new movie over the weekend.  The plot really stunk but it

was worth it to see J-C disrobed so frequently.
I hope this is a trend....
K
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: paul@psych.toronto.edu (Paul Hastings)
Subject: Re: MOTSS-Oriented Music, Part II
Organization: Department of Psychology, University of Toronto
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 17:02:20 GMT

In article <C1FGLt.1pA@hpuerca.atl.hp.com> kfj@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Kirk Johanning) writes:
>In <1993Jan25.060407.10785@fuug.fi> an6245@anon.penet.fi (Nobody in particular...) writes:
>
>>In my earlier post asking about MOTSS-oriented music, I didn't specify
>>very clearly what I meant by "MOTSS-oriented."
>
>>The examples I posted earlier ("Hideaway" and "Gimme, Gimme, Gimme") are
>>good examples.  
>
>I do not think that "Gimme, Gimme, Gimme" is really that good of an
>example as it is really a remake of a song by ABBA, where the singers
>in the group where women.  Unless you think that a song, originally
>from a woman's point of view, remade and sung by a male, makes it
>MOTSS-oriented.
>

Well, I've always kind of enjoyed Erasure's version of 'River deep, 
mountain high', in which Andrew sings "When I was a little girl/
I had a rag doll/The only doll I ever owned/And now I love you just 
like that rag doll/Only now, my love has grown".

Andrew's a BIG girl now.  And wears a dress like NO other sister!

-paul

-- 
Butch Smurf     S6 b++ g l y+ z+ n+ o+ x+ a-u v+ j+
It's a smurf thing; I don't understand.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Challenge: Documentation of Nonpromiscuity
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 23:45:51 GMT


In article <C187rn.2C7@news.cso.uiuc.edu>
mchaffee@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Real Life?!?!  HA!!), though a
bit silly about his personal name field, perhaps, writes too
charitably:

>Arthur_T_Hu@cup.portal.com writes:
>>[...]

>As of now, your conclusions have no value outside of
>entertainment.

And vanishingly little of that.

-- 
[Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin]
[Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson]
[Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888]
[---------> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <---------]
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Inalienable Rights (was Re: Text of new OCA anti-gay initiative)
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 93 18:08:02 GMT


In article <C18B2E.47A@news.cso.uiuc.edu>
mchaffee@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Michael Chaffee) writes:

This is so *absolutely* important that I have to give it all
again.  *Please* read it, it's how American government is
supposed to work.

>In America (and nowhere else in the world), we are not
>*afforded* rights by the Constitution.  The Constitution
>does not add rights to those we innately possess, but
>protects them.  It is the people who grant rights to the
>government, not vice-versa.  We give the government the
>right to build roads; we give the government the right to
>protect economically the elderly; we give the government the
>right to fund other nations' development.  The government
>does not *give* us the right to life, liberty, and the
>pursuit of happiness, but protects those rights, which are
>considered innate in all human beings.

Thank you.

>Again, it seems semantic, but I believe that the view that
>we have rights by the grace ofthe government, and not
>vice-versa, is in part responsible for legislation
>legalizing bigotry.

At a minimum, those who seek to curtail our rights seem
determined to use confusion over this issue as the basis for
their scummy projects.

<> You don't stick a knife in a man's back nine inches and
<> then pull it out six inches and say you are making progress.
<> -- Malcolm X
-- 
[Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin]
[Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson]
[Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888]
[---------> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <---------]
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jcav@kimbark.uchicago.edu (JohnC)
Subject: Re: Clinton is President, Bush is not even history
Reply-To: jcav@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: The Royal Society for Putting Things on Top of Other Things
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 23:43:40 GMT

In article <TIM.93Jan21060919@ear-ache.mit.edu> tim@ear-ache.mit.edu (Tim Wilson) writes:
>Oops!  So, "The Major Dooley March" (mentioned elsewhere) is probably
>that horrible whistling tune from Bridge over the River Kwai.  As
>performed by Jackson Browne.  
>
>I remain corrected.

I believe that the march used in _The Bridge on the River Kwai_ was
"The Colonel Bogie March".

Horrible?  Hardly. IMHO it's a rather good march.  And they only whistled it
part of the time, you know.

   JohnC (Facts_on_file)

"tweettweet <beat> <beat> tweettweettweet tweet-tweet-tweet"


-- 
JohnC | queer person | jcav@midway.uchicago.edu | B0 f++ w c+ g++ k+ s++ e h- p
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: latarra@camelot.bradley.edu (Lisa Ehren)
Subject: Re: Tips for coming out to friends?
Organization: Bradley University
Date: 26 Jan 93 18:01:28 GMT

In <1993Jan25.224344.5405@Princeton.EDU> dem@cs.princeton.edu (Doron Meyer) writes:
>I just need
>to tell a few close friends.  I'm sick of hiding it from them.

Something that worked for me was having some of my better friends know and
knowing myself that I had a support group that would care about me despite
my being bisexual.  I wish you luck in finding support of your own.

<deleted part about being ready when gay jokes or homophobic remarks are
made in presence>

>What am I going to do if they ask if I'm
>gay?  Before, when I was lying to myself, I could always retreat
>to the famous, "Oh, but *I'm* not gay," read as, "Leave
>the fucking faggots alone, but thank God I'm not one of them."
>Now I don't know what I'd do.  I'm certainly not going to out
>myself to the whole school.. so what do I do?  Lie?  That's
>not me, and I can't do it convincingly.

Well, you could always tell them that a very good friend of yours is gay,
and that out of sympathy for him you'd rather not listen to that kind of
thing...that's mostly the truth, 'cause I would hope that you are a friend
to yourself.

Lisa, wondering why she's offering advice when this is so new to her.
--
"Bondage can be fun when you use a lot of rope.  Its better, though,
when you use too much!"  --attrib. Mae West.  

To bi or not to bi...that was a question.  latarra@camelot.bradley.edu
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rwhite@jagat.uucp (Robert White)
Subject: Re: No Liberty Without Ethics
Organization: Rob White and Friends
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 09:36:35 GMT

Situational Ethics?

Don't "ethics," strictly speaking, simply describe how one is to act
in any given situation?  Then there are "ethos," the underlying moral
influences and such.  But all ethics are situational.  As a simple
domonstration, phrase an ethical question which does not involve a
circumstance and a choice.

The clasic "is it wrong to kill?" *does* cary an understood "under
what/any circumstances?" rider.  Similar extensions apply to all of
the "simple" questions that get held up by the various sides to any
issue.  And no matter what you answer to any such people there is
always an "even if..." or "what about when..." in their responses.

That is why you can't ever successfully argue ethics to a conclusion,
only a consensus.
-- 
Robert C. White Jr.               ______
Just some guy.                     \__/
(Insert clever banalities here)     \/
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.bi
From: kay@dcs.warwick.ac.uk (Kay Dekker)
Subject: Re: Gay soda! I'm so excited!
Organization: Department of Computer Science, Warwick University, England
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 11:35:22 GMT

In article <1k48n1$pj1@agate.berkeley.edu> mlloyd@ocf.berkeley.edu (M. Lloyd) writes:
>idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid) writes:
>>alpha@w6yx.Stanford.EDU (Alpha Schram) writes:
>>>AND you MUST pour the milk BEFORE the tea, or you are REALLY a heathen!
>>
>>No no no no no... Milk In First is so vulgar...  Milkless tea is
>>quite acceptable.  You must have been talking to members of the
>>Lower Classes.
>
>One begs to differ with the honourable gentleman.  One was born, bred
>and buttered with distinctly anti-non-U pretentions, and one will be a
>prelactator until one passes over.

Buttered?  *yum*... but (shudder) Mike! *really*!  Prelactation would have
been enough to have got you shown my dear grandmamma's door (a rather
pleasant oak one, actually).  It'd have marked you as One Of Them in
no time flat.

Have you ever considered taking a prelactin inhibitor?

			Kay
-- 
the Crisco Kid: quiet, shy, mono, Armani-suited.  Not.  idx009@uk.ac.cov.cck
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance)
Subject: Re: safe sex question
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 14:23:48 GMT

stevenso@Apple.COM (David Stevenson) writes:

>You know, in all the discussion, I never saw a detailed description
>of how big his problem really is, exactly.

I think I'll wait until the movie comes out.

John, who thinks it'd be nice to append a 'JUST KIDDING!' to this
thread, just in case Our Brent is still feeling sensitive about the
subject. Well, actually, I'm not kidding all *that* much, but it's
not objectification, I swear, or at least not in a bad way. I'll
respect you in the morning - now show me what you got, baby...

--
thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu * John Dorrance * Disco Diva y Flamenco Chico
      You would be surprised at what resides in your insides.
	  S7/9 g++l+(+)y++z++/--(++!!!)o+(+)x+a++uv(++)j+
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Tips for coming out to friends?
Date: 23 Jan 1993 04:27:13 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <93023.055143BURGER@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> bb 
<BURGER@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> writes:
> In article <1993Jan21.035753.5353@Princeton.EDU>, 
> dem@cs.princeton.edu (Doron Meyer) says:
> >I'm starting to contemplate coming out selectively to very
> >close friends.  However, I want to make sure to do it right,
> >as I can't undo things if I screw them up.

How can you screw up coming out?

> True. Once you're out to someone (read: the world through that grape vine)
> you can't go completely back in. Mind you, who would want to? ;-)
>
> >What I'm asking is what things that worked and what you
> >wished you had done when coming out to your best friends.

I just told them all that I was gay.  That I am a queen came
as a surprise to exactly nobody.  Oh well.

> Remember that everyone is an individual and will have differing responses 
> to what you have to say. My route was to select my most catholic friend and 
> work stuff out on/with her. This was, although, my second attempt. My first 
> attempt to be myself took place when I was a teen and the "adult/friend" 
> was so disgusted that I locked myself away for a couple more years and a 
> new city.

I read these things and I wonder if I grew up on Mars.  Is being
gay *such* a big deal?  I just can't believe it is.  I was a nelly
queen all through junior and senior high.  I came out publicly in
my 10th grade English class.  (And boy oh boy did I come out 
publicly.  If I haven't already written about "Andre" and putting on 
pink satin toe shoes and a Swan Queen headress, let me know.  I'd 
be happy to write about this again.)

> >Did it work better to mention it in passing, as if it was
> >inconsequential (i.e. "I can't wait until the next meeting of <insert
> >gay and lesbian organization here>") or to be straight out? (i.e.
> >"Bob, I have to tell you something important that I've been hiding;
> >I'm gay.")

I don't know.  I just assume that people understand that I'm
gay.  If they're suprised to find out, it's not *my* problem.

> What I did notice when I started this coming out process was that with 
> some people I used the term "not heterosexual" as opposed to "gay" or 
> "homosexual."  Semantics? Maybe. But I just found that term easier 
> with/on a few of my more straight friends.

Oh, heavens.  Why sugar-coat it?  Not a single person I've ever
known has been surprised that I'm gay.  Just tell them that you're
gay and get it over with.  It really isn't a big deal.  Oh sure,
it seems like it's a huge thing, but who the fuck cares any more?

Arne



Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: coren@speed.osf.org (Robert Coren)
Subject: Re: Blatant birthday information! : -)
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 23:09:01 GMT

In article <thaaang.728234968@cwis>, thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance) writes:
> EcCUSE me? Are you trying to say something, buddy? Do you think I won't
> come after you, too? Huh? HUH?

I suppose you might come after me. Then again, you might come before
me. Simultaneous would be nice, but it can be difficult to achieve.

I'm willing to experiment, however.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: StarOwl@uiuc.edu (Michael D. Adams)
Subject: Key West
Reply-To: StarOwl@uiuc.edu
Organization: Actuarial Science Program at UIUC
X-Header-1:    Bigotry is not a family value -- boycott Colorado, think twice
X-Header-2:    about Oregon, watch out for Ohio, Idaho, Michigan, Maine, and
X-Header-3:    Florida.
X-Header-5:    Beware lunatic actuaries in the night!
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 13:53:24 GMT

Just in case people out there missed it....

Last night on Fox's new show, _Key West_, a newly-elected homophobic
mayor learned that over half of her staff is "alternatively sexed,"
and that these folks are protected from firing because of their civil
service status.

The mayor, who had just been grilled about her outing her opponent during
the campaign and her opinion that homosexuality is immoral, responded to 
the situation by saying, "I suppose this is what you call karma."

I found the situation rather amusing....  ;)

--
Michael D. Adams	|"Since when do you have to agree with people to defend
University of Illinois  | them from injustice?"	   -- Lillian Hellman
StarOwl@uiuc.edu	|"Computer, end program!"  -- Lt. Barkley at the end
Standard Disclaimers    | 	of ST:TNG, "Ship in a Bottle"
From: mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: The Hepburns, was Re: Audrey
Date: 26 Jan 93 21:19:38 GMT
Followup-To: soc.motss
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.

Oh, the pain!  The agony!  The shredding of flesh and sinew and
bone and all that nasty body stuff!  I marvel at the technique!
The cunning!  The fortitude of will!  Poor little over-matched
*X* - brought low by a low-hanging beast of burden - no, beast
of prey - no, praying beast?  No - well, brought low by some
kind of brutal, primitive beast or another.  

The shame, the shame.

*X*
(who wonders why a furball would go to the trouble of renaming
a thread to something else which had little - if any -
relevance to the content thereof?)
Xref: sparky soc.motss:58383 ca.politics:10657
From: pc@linus.mitre.org (Penny Chase)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,ca.politics
Subject: Re: Book Review "The Homosexalities"
Date: 25 Jan 93 19:53:16 GMT
	<74044@cup.portal.com> <randall.727666344@seashore>
Organization: Research Computer Facility, The MITRE Corporation, Bedford MA

In article <randall.727666344@seashore> randall@informix.com (Randall Rhea) writes:

   Arthur_T_Hu@cup.portal.com writes:

   >That doesn't mean we can bash gays any more than we should hate blacks becaus
   >that group is more prone to crime. It does mean that any talk that gays
   >are statistically and psychologically just like anybody else is pure bunk
   >for anyone that bothers to dig in the facts (as is drug use and
   >promiscuity). Any bunch that simply throws away all relevant facts and then
   >stands on no supporting evidence in my mind has some problems.

   I have yet to see any convincing evidence that 1) homosexuality is
   a "mental illness" that can be "cured"; 2) The parents of homosexuals
   are to blame for their sexual preference (which the book states, according
   to the article); 3) Homosexuals inherently have more psychological
   problems than heterosexuals; 4) Homosexuals are "oversexed" or have
   more sex drive than heterosexuals.

Randall's use of the word "oversexed" juxtaposed with Arthur's
reference to blacks is very illuminating.  Not that long ago black
males were the group that was considered "oversexed".  One of the
tragic consequences of that stereotype (of course combined with
general prejudice and an unwillingness to see black men as fellow
human beings) was the infamous syphillis "research" at Tuskegee
Institute.  For those who are interested, this week's Nova is about
this scandalous episode (I haven't seen the TV program, but I did read
"Bad Blood").

	Penny

--
UUCP:  { ... }!linus!pc 
INTERNET:  pc@mitre.org
From: ac999273@umbc.edu (ac999273)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Advice needed-Bad comming out experience
Date: 26 Jan 1993 20:07:07 -0500
Organization: Univ. of MD, Baltimore County
NNTP-Posting-Host: umbc5.umbc.edu

In article <1k4fb6INN5u7@transfer.stratus.com> pfieland@citron.sw.stratus.com (Peggy Fieland) writes:
>In article <1993Jan26.174415.17866@spdcc.com> rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:

>>his parents influence.  For most people under 25 that is difficult
>>to arrange both logistically and financially...  There is rarely
>>if ever a "perfect and simple" solution.
>
>You're absolutely right, given his age and the fact that his parents
>are probably paying for the therapy.
>
>Under the circumstances, the best thing for him to do is probably to
>stop seeing the offending shrink AT ALL and try to arrange for counseling
>of his own, if possible.


	Given his age, and the obvious status of his parents, that is not a 
possible solution either.  He is obviously going to the offending shrink 
against his will in the first place, and will continue to be strongarmed into
going, until his parents are fully satisfied that he has been properly cured.








--


Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: buckmr@vccsouth29.its.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
Subject: Re: Domestic Parnters
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 21:46:43 GMT

fy@lucid.com (Frank Yellin) writes:


>In article <1k3rg6INN9h8@sumax.seattleu.edu> corto@sumax.seattleu.edu (Cort
>Odekirk) writes: 

>>  Can anyone E-mail me the actual text of a Domestic Partnership Ordinance?
>>  Here at SU I got in a heated debate with a fellow classmate as to whether or
>>  not these represented "Special Rights" for Gays.  He claimed the legislation
>>  gave benefits only to gay couples, and not to heterosexual couples.  I know
>>  he is wrong but not having the actual text of the ordiance it came down to a 
>>  his word vs mine situation.

>I do not have the text in front of me.

Actually, there is probably text of theStanford Document available by
anonymous ftp at nifty.andrew.cmu.edu in /pub/QRD/qrd/dp

-- 
RON BUCKMIRE, 11 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735. ``BOYCOTT COLORADO!'' 
vox:(518)-276-8910 fax:(518)-276-6920 buckmr@rpi.edu buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet
0.5% of the U.S. population owns 48.4% of the assets. 1% owns 61.8% and 10%
owns 91.7%. -- Source: Arthur B. Kennickell,_ Demographics & Household Savings_
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: spencer@der.Princeton.EDU (S. Spencer Sun)
Subject: Re: Deep Space Nine: Queer Kardassians?
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: spencer@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (S. Spencer Sun)
Organization: Society for Promotion of Entropy in the Universe (SPEU)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1993 20:36:31 GMT

In article <1993Jan20.201633.11378@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, egilder@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Eric Gilder) writes:
>In article <1993Jan19.032240.2176@iisat.alt.ns.ca> crombie@iisat.alt.ns.ca writ
>es:
>>
>>But my friend says he was outraged. He felt the Kardiassian was made
>>homosexual (a sort of alien Liberace) and that made him very angry.
[referring to the clothier]
>>
>To my knowledge, the folks that give us ST:TNG and ST:DS9 have not yet gone 
>into the subject of Kardassian physiology, specifically with respect to genders
>and what they would look like to a non-Kardassian.  For all we know so far, it 
>might take seven of them to make a bouncing baby despot.

Hm... actually in the two-part TNG episode, where Picard, Worf, and
Crusher are captured by the Cardassians (it's a C, not a K), at one
point the one torturing Picard (why were they so blatantly copying the
toturing thing from Orwell's _1984_?) is just sitting as his desk and
his daughter (identified by conversation and behavior) wanders in and
starts talking to him, and she eventually asks her dad "Do humans have
mothers and fathers too?"

From this we can at least infer that there are male and female
Cardassians, and that each gender looks like its respective human gender
plus the Cardassian makeup :-)  There may be more than one mother and/or
father for each child but they didn't say that explicitly, and IMHO they
imply the traditional two-parent thing.

-----
sss / Princeton University Class of 1994 / Department of Computer Science
Laws... so widely disobeyed and which cannot be enforced only promote
disrespect for the law in general. [NJ Ass'yman Mikulak, RE: 55 MPH
limit]

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: sfm@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Steve_Mershon)
Subject: info wanted: Colgate Palmolive and Grace
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories - Murray Hill, NJ
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 20:10:48 GMT
Keywords: nondiscrimination clause?  lesbigay employee groups?

A friend has requested the following information.  Responses may
be sent to me.  Thanks for any assistance.

  I have a friend who is finishing his PhD at UPenn this spring.  He
  wants to know if Colgate Palmolive and Grace have lesbigay employee
  groups or a record of discrimination.  Do you have any information
  on either of these companies?  The Colgate job is in New Jersey, so
  I'll be sure to tell my friend about your anti-discrimination law.

Steve Mershon
Murray Hill, NJ
stephen.mershon@att.com
Newsgroups: soc.motss