HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: borgen@stud.cs.uit.no (Borge Noest)
Subject: Re: Attn Commodore: You are making a Big Mistake (Hardware Manual)
Keywords: hardware reference manual
Organization: University of Tromsoe, Norway
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 14:04:15 GMT

In article <1epl4iINN670@uwm.edu> bloc1469@ee.ee.uwm.edu (Gregory R. Block) writes:
>Does it matter?  98% of the people who buy the machines aren't
>programmers.  That 2% of programming types is going to have a rather
>large % being registered developers under one program or another.

[I think C= not releasing the AGA HWRM is the way to go, but]
I now fully understand that we live in different worlds.
Every single Amiga owner I know is programming, be it AMOS, C, or
assembler.
It must be some kind of cultural thing. People('kids') _are_ playing games,
but it's not like you either play or program; programming is another form
of having fun.

Sounds like different worlds to me.
-- 
|/// borgen@stud.cs.uit.no (Boerge Noest) | Amiga B2000			 \\\|
|//  Box 218, 9001 Tromsoe, Norway	  | Remember to :-) when needed	  \\|
|/   The worlds northernmost university	  | Life is worth living.	   \|
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.programmer
From: breese@monet.imada.ou.dk (Bjoern Reese)
Subject: Re: New hardware reference guide?
Organization: Dept. of Math. & Computer Science, Odense University, Denmark
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 13:14:20 GMT

In article <37130@cbmvax.commodore.com> mks@cbmvax.commodore.com (Michael Sinz)  
writes:
> bjst@sth.frontec.se (Bjorn Stenberg) writes:
> >podesta@qut.edu.au writes:
> >> And don't forget that demo coders don't get any wonderful Developers info.
> >
> >Why not? Become a registered developer and you'll get the info.
> >If you want to know how your machine works and how to use it, go get
> >info where info is to get: Commodore.
> 
> The best thing is that you can walk into a book store and get the RKMs.
> Yes, it is lots of reading.  But it is also the bible when it comes to
> the Amiga and programming it.

Yeah? Could you name a single book store which sells the new Hardware
Ref Guide? No, I didn't think so. I think you've missed the entire
point of this discussion.

--

Bjoern Reese                   |     Email: breese@imada.ou.dk
Odense University, Denmark     |     Voice: +45 65 932 182 (private)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.programmer
From: brindley@maxwell.ECE.ORST.EDU (Mike Brindley)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.programmer
Subject: Re: sprites in 3.0?
Date: 19 Nov 92 05:42:35 GMT
Article-I.D.: talon.1ef9gbINN7rt
Organization: Society for Putting Things on Top of Other Things
NNTP-Posting-Host: maxwell.ece.orst.edu

In article <BxtCwF.6Jq@fc.hp.com> koren@fc.hp.com (Steve Koren) writes:
>Martin Vilcans (marvil@lysator.liu.se) wrote:
>
>> Yes, I know, but the pointer is sprite number 0, it's the higher number
>> sprites that disappear when overscanning.
>
>Interesting, but I'm still not convinced.  Also any potential theory
>needs to explain:
>
>   - programs which open their own, non-overscan screen, with sprites,
>     but the sprites don't work.
>

The same basic thing happens on my 3000 - if my workbench is overscanned
too much, other programs which open up thier own screens will lose the
sprites (even though the dma slots are not actually being used).  I asked
for an explanation of this behaviour int c.s.a.hardware a few months ago,
but got no response.

-- 
--> Mike Brindley
    brindley@ece.orst.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.programmer
From: walker@twix.unx.sas.com (Doug Walker)
Subject: Re: What is wrong with this very simple c program?
Originator: walker@twix.unx.sas.com
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 14:14:44 GMT
Organization: SAS Institute Inc.


In article <johnv.03kr@acix.DIALix.oz.au>, johnv@acix.DIALix.oz.au (John Verhoeven) writes:
|> Whats even more fun :-) is that in some compilers accessing arrays with
|> a negative subscript is also legal, eg foo[-1] = 5.
|> 
|> Does SAS C V6 allow this ?

Yes, it's part of the standard and all ANSI-compliant compilers
allow it.

|> John Verhoeven                        johnv@acix.DIALix.oz.au      _--_|\

-- 
  *****
=*|_o_o|\\=====Doug Walker, Software Distiller====== BBS: (919)460-7430 =
 *|. o.| ||                                          1200/2400/9600 Dual
  | o  |//     For all you do, this bug's for you!
  ====== 
usenet: walker@unx.sas.com                            bix: djwalker 
Any opinions expressed are mine, not those of SAS Institute, Inc.

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.programmer
From: u920659@daimi.aau.dk (Carsten S|rensen)
Subject: Re: New hardware reference guide?
Organization: DAIMI: Computer Science Department, Aarhus University, Denmark
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 10:32:33 GMT

Hamish.Macdonald@x400gate.bnr.ca (Hamish Macdonald) writes:

>>>>>> On 19 Nov 92 14:05:44 GMT,
>>>>>> In message <1992Nov19.140544.28847@imada.ou.dk>,
>>>>>> breese@monet.imada.ou.dk (Bjoern Reese) wrote:
>
>Bjoern> I agree again. The OS is GREAT, and I can understand that the
>Bjoern> software engineers at C= aren't feeling too happy about people
>Bjoern> like me, when I stuff the OS, which they have been working
>Bjoern> hard at for several years.
>
>Bjoern> But I think that every programmer should be given to freedom
>        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Bjoern> to do as he/she likes, based on guidelines from C=. If we
>        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Bjoern> don't care about upwards compatibility, it's our problem (we
>Bjoern> probably never intended these programs to run on a future
>Bjoern> machine; we made them to show what the current machine can do,
>Bjoern> and remember: we never got any money for our efforts!!)
>
>That's exactly what is happening.
>
>Commodore's guidelines in this case are:
>
>  "We are not going to do anything at all to help you program this
>   machine other than use the OS routines."
>
>They're not *stopping* you from banging the hardware, they're just not
>telling you how to do it.
>
>Nothing is stopping you from investigating the hardware and figuring
>out how to do it yourselves.

I'd REALLY like to tell you some things... But I won't 'coz this discussion
has developed into a mudthrowing contest. Everytime a guy says something FOR
a HW guide, an OS guy flames him and the other way around... I think we should
stop this thing RIGHT NOW 'coz we will never agree anyway. There have been many
good or less good arguments here, but I think we have heard them all by now.
Let people decide what they want to do, be it OS-stuff or hardware-banging.


					Slammer/Anarchy
					u920659@daimi.aau.dk


		 /\ __  __ __ _ |_
		/--\| )(_| | (__| )\/ - BEDTIME FOR DEMOCRACY
		                   /

BTW: Anybody interested in making a group/club/whatever whose purpose is to
     make a new hardware manual? E-mail me! Anybody against this idea, KEEP
     THE FLAMES!


Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.programmer
From: walker@twix.unx.sas.com (Doug Walker)
Subject: Re: Porting GNU SW with Lattice 5.10
Originator: walker@twix.unx.sas.com
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 14:38:12 GMT
Organization: SAS Institute Inc.


In article <jfusco.086x@sempco.UUCP>, jfusco@sempco.UUCP (John Fusco) writes:
|> Upon looking at the code I saw that the culprit was a huge macro - several
|> lines of code run together with line continuation characters (\\).  I thought
|> that I just needed to tweek some buffer size, so I tried the -z option of the
|> "lc" command.  My documentation does not describe this option very well, so I
|> assumed that the number following the -z should be decimal, representing the
|> buffer size.  This seemed to go further in the code before crashing, but I got
|> the same error.  After I increased the size above 4096, the LC command crashes
|> my computer.  Even with a stack size of 100000 it still crashes.

Try -z20000.  The default is 4096.  Also you can try using lc1b instead of lc1
(the easiest way to do this if you're using the LC command is to resident lc1b 
and call it lc1, or you can simply ask for a listing to be produced.)  lc1b has 
bigger defaults on all the buffers (8192 for the line buffer).

|> John Fusco

-- 
  *****
=*|_o_o|\\=====Doug Walker, Software Distiller====== BBS: (919)460-7430 =
 *|. o.| ||                                          1200/2400/9600 Dual
  | o  |//     For all you do, this bug's for you!
  ====== 
usenet: walker@unx.sas.com                            bix: djwalker 
Any opinions expressed are mine, not those of SAS Institute, Inc.

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.programmer
From: jfieber@sophia.smith.edu (John Fieber)
Subject: Re: A Style Guide Question
Organization: Smith College
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 22:28:03 GMT

In article <37104@cbmvax.commodore.com> peter@cbmvax.commodore.com (Peter Cherna) writes:
>In article <mwm.2nu7@contessa.palo-alto.ca.us> mwm@contessa.palo-alto.ca.us (Mike Meyer) writes:
>>4.) Add menu items Done and Cancel that are identical to the buttons,
>>	and have the shortcuts be Amiga-D and Amiga-C.
>
>This is not a good idea.  First of all, Amiga-C is the _standard_ key
>equivalent for "copy to clipboard".  Let's try not to abuse those
>standards that have appeared in at least some number of apps.

...and appears to be a cross-platform standard.  XCV for cut,
copy paste is used on the Mac, Messy-Windows, and NeXT to name a
few.  It is quite nice to be able to bounce around between
platforms and not even have to shift gears...

>The Amiga Style Guide addresses this problem by recommending that
><ENTER> in a string gadget deactivate the string gadget but not close
>the window or take any other drastic action.  The idea is that <ENTER>
>followed by "D" or "C" would have the desired effect.

[note: I don't have my style guide handy so I can't say if this
is mentioned...]

However, there are many instances where the logical action of the
<enter> key is to activate another string gadget.  Several
programs I use take the approach of having <alt-enter>
de-activate the string gadget *without* activating the next.

I frequently find myself doing unexpected things on the mac
because the <enter> key almost always takes some drastic action
while the <tab> key is used to move around between string
gadgets.  2.0 now provides for tabbing through string gadgets as
well and I suppose with conditioning I could get used to that.
But, having the <enter> key do anything more drastic than
deactivate a string gadget or activating the next would require a
lobotomy to get used to.  For me <enter> means "I'm done typing
that one thing", not "I'm done with everything in the requester,
now place my file into a black hole".  

Also, on the Mac I find that since the same key (enter) is always
used for the default action I have much less of a tendancy to
actually *read* what the choices say and thus sometimes make the
mistake of choosing the default action when I really wanted
something else.  In contrast, if I have to hit a specific letter
key for the choice I want, I must then *read* the choices to find
out what key to hit.  With Amiga software that uses the latter
approach, I tend to make fewer mistakes.

One thing though, mac software is *consistant* in its quirks,
even if they are undesirably quirks.  Amiga software is inching
toward this consistancy but has a lot of catchup work to do.
Gadtools, Asl, the style guide and many other things in 2.0+ do
provide a *big* kick in the right direction.

-john

-- 
=== jfieber@sophia.smith.edu ================================================
======================================= Come up and be a kite!  --K. Bush ===
From: jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz (John Bickers)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.programmer
Subject: Re: How to visualize control chars? (Was: Re: Fast Text output...)
Date: 19 Nov 92 16:33:32 PST
Organization: TAP

Quoted from <1992Nov17.205949.27174@sth.frontec.se> by bjst@sth.frontec.se (Bjorn Stenberg):

> I'm into an 'Emacs' way of displaying it, using '^' as prefix for control
> chars and displaying chars not in fonts as '\hh' where hh is the hexadecimal

> Opinions, anyone?

    One of the problems is that it interferes with the way the Amiga
    can be made to do things. For example, IF MicroEMACS just
    displayed oddball characters as themselves instead of translating,
    I could load up a font modified to show EBCDIC data, and then read
    the data without any other translation! Editing is a different
    story (keymaps, etc, which MicroEMACS ignores anyway :), of
    course.

    Also, is anyone writing programs to display Unicode text, or
    similar? How should that be accomplished?

> 		-- Bjorn
--
*** John Bickers, TAP.                   jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz ***
***    "Radioactivity - It's in the air, for you and me" - Kraftwerk    ***
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.programmer
From: bjst@sth.frontec.se (Bjorn Stenberg)
Subject: Re: New hardware reference guide?
Organization: IDK/Frontec - System Design Group
Date: 23 Nov 92 13:40:30 GMT

amipb@amipb.gna.org (Philippe Berard) writes:
>     What about fast games with animated 3D textures, rotative scrollings,
>     moving copperlists ?

  Who says you've got to take over the machine to do that? There *ARE* legal
ways of doing your own blitter tricks. Use 'em!

  Check out our old demo 'Virtual Intelligence'. It features real-time animated
fractal bitmap textures on rotating 3D objects. It's not bug-free (note!), but
it runs right off of my A3000 HD, and when I click the mouse I've got AmigaDOS
nicely back in business again. That's all I ask...

>     You know, the game market is what makes the Amiga live today,

  It is also the game market that has made 'Amiga' a name most people associate
with 'videogame', 'kids playing after school' etc.

  Should we be eternally grateful for that too? :-)

		-- Bjorn

       ///  Bjorn Stenberg, Stockholm, Sweden         bjst@sth.frontec.se
      ///  main() { printf(&unix["\021%six\012\0"],(unix)["have"]+"fun"-0x60);}
 \\\ ///  "- Your documentation no longer confuses me, old version!"
Xref: sparky comp.sys.amiga.programmer:15987 comp.sys.amiga.hardware:19808
From: jcmurphy@acsu.buffalo.edu (Jeff Murphy)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.programmer,comp.sys.amiga.hardware
Subject: Re: Attn Commodore: You are making a Big Mistake (Hardware
Date: 17 Nov 92 21:58:42 GMT
Organization: UB

In article <Bxv4wG.Lsx@cck.coventry.ac.uk> csg019@cck.coventry.ac.uk (-~=Zaphod=~-) writes:
>In article <69517@cup.portal.com> joeles@cup.portal.com (Joel Edward Swan) writes:
>>In article <1992Nov12.000037.27562@wuecl.wustl.edu> amc@wucs1.wustl.edu
>>(Adam Costello) writes:
>>
>>>If Commodore refuses to release a hardware manual for future Amigas,
>>>they will be betraying their most loyal customers...
>>
>>I disagree.  Their most loyal customers are those who play by the rules, sell
>>useful software that is good enough to be purchased and build reputation of
>>running under more than one vesion of the OS.  These increase software sales
>
>I will definately but a FALCON if CBM do this.
>
>>Way to go CBM!!!
>Yeah, home run....


	Hmm.. although this discussion is very entertaining.. it does raise
one point: the hardware manual comes in handy for non-OS programming.
Consider this: the 4000 (a realtively fast machine) would be very nice
with UNIX. But.. Commodore's record as far as UNIX is concerned is well,
not very good (to say the least). So their are several other efforts
currently underway, but in order to port over a new OS, you need to know
about the machines *hardware*... otherwise your job will become very 
difficult. So.. in the interest of helping those who wish to undertake
such things as a port of UNIX to new machines, Commodore should release
an hardware manual for the machine.


-- 
jcmurphy@acsu.buffalo.edu                   cit network installation & repair
opnsmurf@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu                                          sunyab
From: jesup@cbmvax.commodore.com (Randell Jesup)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.programmer
Subject: Re: ADA needed
Date: 22 Nov 92 02:37:03 GMT
Reply-To: jesup@cbmvax.commodore.com (Randell Jesup)
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA

dobrien@sybase.com (Dave O'Brien) writes:
>In article <1992Nov9.082743.3432@sunbim.be> , accs1@bagheera.mumath
>>>	is there somewhere an ADA Compiler for the Amiga ?
>>
>>Thank god there is another real software-engineer out there!
>
>Seems that ADA programmers - oops, software *engineers* - are wearing
>their chins rather high this year...   ;^)

	Now now, Ada isn't all that bad, especially nowadays (see the current
CACM issue focus on Ada).  I used to program in Ada (for about a year, in '86-
'87).  The Amiga actually has a better fit to Ada than many machines do, with
a low-overhead tasking model (many people using Ada avoid tasking due to the
overhead with spawning processes on most Unixes, or worse yet VMS).

-- 
To be or not to be = 0xff
-
Randell Jesup, Jack-of-quite-a-few-trades, Commodore Engineering.
{uunet|rutgers}!cbmvax!jesup, jesup@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com  BIX: rjesup  
Disclaimer: Nothing I say is anything other than my personal opinion.
From: wuth@castrov.cuc.ab.ca (Brett Wuth)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.programmer
Distribution: world
X-Prev-Message-Id: <9211132335.AA022o4@castrov.cuc.ab.ca>
X-Prev-Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 17:35:53 MDT
To: dingebre@imp.sim.es.com
Cc: dice@castrov.cuc.ab.ca,
        Charlie_Gibbs@mindlink.bc.ca
Subject: Re: a68k bug fixes
Date: 15 Nov 92 02:27:08 MDT
Organization: Castrovalva is a state of mind

>I was really wondering about the bug fixes to A68K. I'm a registered DICE
>user and would love to have a "bugless" A68k.

The fixed A68k is available in A68k: from castrov.cuc.ab.ca via BMS
or from the mail server at hactar.hanse.de.  I've mailed the fix
to Charlie Gibbs.

With the author's, Charlie Gibb's, permission I'm starting up a mailing
list for users of A68k.  Send mail to a68k-request@castrov.cuc.ab.ca.

>On an side note, I was (think I still am) a subscriber to the DICE mailing
>list. You published a list of bugs to which Matt responded that most were
>fixed in the "latest" version. Do you still have the bug list? 

Yes, get them from DICE:CompilerBugs on hactar.hanse.de via the mail server
or BMS.

>I would like
>to try these out on my version and would like to know what has been fixed.

Please let me know, so I can record which bugs are in which versions.

>I'm thinking its time to upgrade again.
>
>Oh, and do you have any word on the commercial version of DICE?

I'm a beta tester (beta 2) of the commercial version.  Most of the
important bugs are fixed.  The debugger will be nice, when it's fully
functional.  Matt Dillon is now on this list, so he may be making some
announcements here.

Cheers,
-- 
Brett Wuth  wuth@castrov.cuc.ab.ca BCWuth@uncamult.bitnet wuth@castrov.UUCP
U302, 3510 44St SW, Calgary, Alberta, T3E 3R9, CANADA  Tel: +1 403 242-0848

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From: peter@cbmvax.commodore.com (Peter Cherna)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.programmer
Subject: Re: Aspect ratio from display database -- How?
Date: 18 Nov 92 17:04:51 GMT
Reply-To: peter@cbmvax.commodore.com (Peter Cherna)
Organization: Commodore-Amiga, Inc.  West Chester, PA.

In article <shf.721983639@well.sf.ca.us> shf@well.sf.ca.us (Stuart H. Ferguson) writes:
>I want to open a screen that mimics the Workbench so my program will run
>under the user's prefered display configuration.  I think I understand
>about public screen and mode-id's and the display database.

For a given mode ID, you can find much of what you need in the DisplayInfo
structure.  You can use GetDisplayInfoData() with the DTAG_DISP option
to get this structure.  The DisplayInfo.Resolution field gives you the
"ticks" per pixel of a given mode.  Ticks are an arbitrary unit, but
the number of ticks on a display is a crude constant.  That is to say,
it's typically of the same order, regardless of monitor type.  The
ratio of Resolution.X to Resolution.Y is the aspect ratio.

How ticks per pixel converts to pixels per inch is not defined, but
there might be a way in the future for the user to effectively measure
pixels per inch on his particular screen, and inform the system.

>		Stuart Ferguson		(shf@well.sf.ca.us)

     Peter
--
Peter Cherna, User Interface Development Group, Commodore-Amiga, Inc.
{uunet|rutgers}!cbmvax!peter    peter@cbmvax.commodore.com
My opinions do not necessarily represent the opinions of my employer.
"I believe it's bad luck to be superstitious."

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.programmer
From: jfieber@sophia.smith.edu (John Fieber)
Subject: Re: Searching for DOS documentation
Keywords: DOS, documentation
Organization: Smith College
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 00:12:24 GMT

In article <BxrxEH.K0o@immd4.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> ftegerer@cip.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Frohwalt Egerer) writes:
>I know there is a DOS book from bantam books. Hoever I never have seen
>it, and I don't know if it contains the expansions done in Release 2
>of the operating system.

The bantam book is the one you need.  The lastest edition does
contain release 2 stuff.

My question is WHY is the dos stuff documented separately?  

-john
-- 
=== jfieber@sophia.smith.edu ================================================
======================================= Come up and be a kite!  --K. Bush ===
From: fgd3@nifty.UUCP (Fabbian G. Dufoe, III)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.programmer
Subject: Re: What C is best for me!?
Distribution: world
Date: 16 Nov 92 09:58:35 EST
Organization: Fabbian G. Dufoe, III

In article <7u-1Hl6cxa@atlantis.psu.edu> KRC@ECLX.PSU.EDU (Keith R. Connors) writes:
>Hi all....
>
>I'm wondering what C programming system I should use....please help me out...
>
>I'm planning to learn C over the Christmas holidays, and rather than download
>all of the environments for the Amiga, sift thru them, and then still not know
>which route is best for me. 

   You'll be able to scratch the surface over the Christmas holidays, not
much more.  C has a steep learning curve.  Once you've learned C you still
have to learn how to use the libraries that apply to the computer system for
which you're programming.

>I have programming experience in FORTRAN, Pascal, BASIC, and Assembly on
>various platforms, however, I have never programmed in any of them on the
>Amiga.

   If you're going to write portable C programs that will run easily on any
platform with a C compiler your lack of Amiga programming experience won't
be a handicap.  If you want to do anything interesting and take advantage of
the Amiga's features be prepared for a long and frustrating period of
learning strange and new concepts and techniques.

>I'm looking for a environment that is well documented, and includes numerous
>examples, so that ideally I won't *have* to buy a book on C.  (I probably

   You'll have to buy a book on C.  There's just no getting around it.  When
I bought my first computer I learned to program it in BASIC from the
reference manual that came with it.  Those days are gone.  Modern
programming systems are too complicated and you just don't get that kind of
documentation with the compilers.  Save yourself some time at the beginning
and buy "The C Programming Language" by Brian Kernighan and Dennis Ritchie.
You might want to buy a couple of other books on C just for good measure.

>         A500 - 1/2 Meg Chip, 2 1/2 Meh Fast
>         Workbench 1.3
>         GVP Impact Series II 52 Meg

   You have sufficient resources to run either DICE, SAS C or Manx C with no
problems.  You might be a little tight running gcc or any of the C++
implementations.  I don't know.

--Fabbian G. Dufoe, III
   350 Ling-A-Mor Terrace South   | GEnie:    F.DUFOE3
   St. Petersburg, Florida  33705 | internet: fgd3%nifty@tct.com
   813-823-2350                   | uucp:     ...tct!deep6!nifty!fgd3

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.programmer