HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X)
Subject: Re: Drugs & Fighting (was Finishing techniques)
Organization: Twilight Zone
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 19:07:40 GMT

In article <62938@mimsy.umd.edu> tms@cs.umd.edu (Tom Swiss (not Swift, not Suiss, Swiss!)) writes:

>     Khat is a mild stimulant, somewhat stronger than coffee. Its seizure
>by US military personel is a gross violation of the rights of the Somali
>people. 

	So is our presence in their country, but not too many people seem to
	be complaining about *that* :(

>Our domestic War on Some Drugs is bad enough, but to export it
>to other nations is intolerable.

	Yeah, well Tom-O, you'd better get used to it `cause this shit is
	part and parcel with Georgie The Dick's "New World Order".  You
	will probably be seeing more and more of this rather than less and
	less.  Bend over folks!  Time to get greased!

	-A.V
From: mikel@Apple.COM (Mikel Evins)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: For Stephen Chan
Date: 31 Dec 92 22:56:14 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc, Cupertino, CA

Sorry to broadcast a personal message. E-mail failed me.

Stephen,

Just wanted to let you know that I didn't ignore your mail.
My reply bounced (undeliverable after three days), so I
resent it with the same result. If you want to continue
the conversation, let me know; we can mess with addresses
until we get it right.

--me
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: brian@garfield.cs.mun.ca (Brian Paquet)
Subject: Re: Agreed: rec.martial-arts hierarchy
Organization: CS Dept., Memorial University of Newfoundland
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 06:30:15 GMT

shulick@navajo.ucs.indiana.edu (Sam Hulick) writes:


>This is just a little suggestion, no need to flame. :)

Flames and opinion is different. I will give mine.

>rec.martial-arts.hapkido  -  Hapkido discussions
>                 judo     -  Judo, obviously..
>                 karate   -  all styles of karate..
>                 hype     -  martial-art bullshit like super ninjas and 
>                             catching bullets. :)
>                 western  -  Western martial arts.. knives, guns,
>                             general non-Asian combat
>                 misc     -   Anything else.

Uh I donno... Why should hapkido get it's own group?
Why not Aikido, Kung-fu, Tai-chi etc etc
If [ and quite frankly it would bit a slight pain for me if there
was a split, but if others like it..] If there is to be a split
a better way would be...
*.*-*. Strikeing
       Grappling
       Advocacy [both my style is better then yours, what style
       I should take and the I love M-A'a because type posts]
       Ranged [guns, thrown weapons]
       Weaponed  [the last two could be combined.

But then I supose people would whine that
Some psots cover more then one area [Bokkin vs jo in Aikido for example]
but it would seem that a funtional grouping [with crossposting] would be better
and cut down demands for EVERY style to have it's own group.
There should be a misc group  natch.. [geneeral training tips.. stuff of intrest to
all martial artists..
From: wellison@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Help on resuming training
Date: 23 Dec 92 14:53:20 CST
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

I'm seeking advice as how to 'ease' back into training. I took Tae Kwon Do for
a couple of years straight and achived my 3rd degree brown belt. But due to
finances and time constraints, I had to drop out of the classes. It's been one
and a half years since I attened any training classes and around the first of
the year, I want to resume. The problem is, I have forgot most of the forms and
am so out of shape, I'm afraid I would die in the first class ! Does anyone
have suggestions as to how to get back into shape so I at least resemble a
brown belt (and not a floundering white belt ;-) ?

Thanks....

-=-=- Wes =-=-
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Sunday, 3 Jan 1993 02:57:09 CST
From: David James Alexander Hanley <U16244@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: MOTHER PICKS UP CAR
 <1992Dec29.101540.3008@mtroyal.ab.ca> <1287@xlnt.COM>

In article <1287@xlnt.COM>, david@elwood.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (David Johnson)
says:
>
>PCP exhibiting the strength of several men.  My theory of why one
>normally cannot lift a car is not because your muscles are physically
>incapable of generating the necessary power but rather that defensive
>mechanism built in your body prevents you from doing such things to
>prevent injury.  Have you ever noticed that whenever you do get an
>injury you unconsciously protect it?  I think PCP suppresses this mechanism
>and that is how PCP users are able to generate such power.  My guess is
>that these people are tearing up their own tissues at the same time
>they are throwing police and ambulance workers around or breaking
>restraints.

  I have looked into this and it is what I beleive as well.  A human's
muscles can generate great amounts of power, but there are safeguards
to prevent us from generating enough power to damage our physical
structure--particularly the tendons.  This is why you sometimes find
someone who is small and relatively un-muscular, but is very strong.
They have strong tendons and joints, the body "knows" it, so it
exerts the muscles to a greater tham normal degree.

  This makes sense from an evolutionary standpoint.  Animals that
didn't destroy their bodies after a few weeks survived better.  But
if you had the ability to turn it off during emergencies, that made you
fitter yet, and might reduce a 99% death situation to a 50% one.
Organization: Arizona State University
Date: Wednesday, 23 Dec 1992 01:54:13 MST
From: <AHACC@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Spiritual<->Physical

John says:
=========================================================================
        I was very interested by the Indian(Asian) person's writing
of the Indian martial arts.  Buddha using Indian techniques in developing
the East Asian precursor to modern martial arts means something.  It would
strike me that the Religion and the martial art would have much in common.
        Why is this? The martial art is a discipline. Many people would
laugh at the training of students of the martial arts-saying it is a
waste of time, that one could be enjoying onesself instead.  The same
thing is true of devotees to a religion-who would try to study the seemingly
absurd rituals and statements of the prophets or leaders of the religion.
=========================================================================

     The parallels are fascinating and they reside on more than one
level.  At the risk of disolving any veneer of humility I might have:
the "religious" aspects of the martial arts are one focus of my article in
the current _Journal of Asian Martial Arts_.  Check it out.

     In brief, the martial arts may be seen as being religious in
functional, psychological, and social ways as well as by more
traditional perceptions of the nature of religion.

     By the way, I also plugged rec.m-a in _Aikido Today_.
So, you'll forgive me next time I plug _Aikido Today_ in
rec.m-a ...
---
                                  -Andrew Crawford
                                  <AHACC@ASUACAD>
                                  <AHACC@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU>
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: hines@left.fishkill.ibm.com (Charles K. Hines)
Subject: Re: Newbies Question: Joint Locking
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 92 22:17:12 GMT
Distribution: ba
Reply-To: hinesc@fshvmfk1.vnet.ibm.com
Organization: IBM Poughkeepsie, NY


talk to someone in your area who practices Aikido and have them show you
their wrist & arm warm ups.  That should help a little.  I can try to 
describe them for you if you'd like.

Chuck Hines
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: hurd@fraser.sfu.ca (Peter L. Hurd)
Subject: Re: more on car jacking
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 22:23:48 GMT

Stovall@f88.n106.z1.fidonet.org (Stovall) writes:

>(Deleted discussion about whether to stay or exit auto when confronted
>with hammer wielding assailant on passenger side.)

>Even if you involve a third party (i.e., have a wreck) in your escape
>attempt, it's most likely going to hurt the assailant hanging on the
>side of your car worse than it does you. (Pragmatically speaking,
>the third party picked a bad night to be out...)

Maybe passing close to a lamp-post would do less injury to the innocents.

-- 
Pete Hurd, hurd@sfu.ca| Q: Why did the Jungle Fowl cross the road?          |
Behavioural Ecology   | A: To maximize it's lifetime reproductive success   |
Dept.Biol.Sci., SFU.  | Q: Huh?                                             |
Burnaby B.C., Canada  | A: I guess it just needed to get to the other side. |
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: matthew@cs.mun.ca (Matthew J. Newhook)
Subject: Re: Finishing techniques
Organization: CS Dept., Memorial University of Newfoundland
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 13:16:22 GMT

tac@cs.brown.edu (Ted A. Camus) writes:


>matthew@cs.mun.ca (Matthew J. Newhook) writes:
>   I.e., use a technique that controls their center to throw them.

Correct.

>   However, I disagree that sankyo and kotegaeshi only rely 
>   on pain.  With sankyo, by twisting the arm into a tight "bowstring" 
>   (i.e. slightly more extended than one would do to inflict maximum 
>   pain), one has a very convenient lever to control uke. Here one 
>   immediately manipulates uke without waiting for any "pain effect".

Well, I don't know about you, but the only reason I move when these
techniques are applied to me, is so that my wrist doesn't get ripped
off.  The point of leverage of these attacks is at the wrist, so
therefore if you don't move the wrist gets broken, and there is no more
leverage.

>     -- Ted --

>==========================================================
>  Ted Camus                          Box 1910 CS Dept 
>  tac@cs.brown.edu                   Brown University
>  tac@browncs.BITNET                 Providence, RI 02912

Matthew
-- 
Matthew Newhook (matthew@engr.mun.ca)       |  "...get on with the fascination
Faculty of Engineering and Applied Science  |  the real relation, the underlying
Memorial University of Newfoundland, Canada |  theme" - Limelight, Rush
From: mikel@Apple.COM (Mikel Evins)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Gung-Fu
Date: 31 Dec 92 07:30:53 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc, Cupertino, CA

In article <1992Dec30.182218.8951@srg.srg.af.mil> schan@birch.srg.af.mil (Stephen Chan x4485) writes:
>
>>and an acquaintance of mine who trains at another branch of the school 
>>describes the Gung-Fu style as Five Animal Style......Can anyone tell
>>me what the actual name of this style is?  

It's possible they are teaching the Wu Shing, the five 'classical'
animals. These would be Tiger, Crane, Dragon, Leopard, and Snake.
That would be my first guess since they are billed by a student
as a 'five animals' school.

>>i.e. does it emphasize in-close fighting?  high kicking?  grappling,
>>etc.?  Any help would be greatly appreciated.....Thanks!!
>
>	Different animals have different emphasis - monkey is groundwork, horse
>is kicking, tiger is powerful hand techniques (ripping, tearing, close range),
>crane is long range hand and kicks, dragon emphasizes oblique angles and
>getting around the opponent.

In addition to the varying fighting strategies, the five classical
animals, when taught together, are usually associated with five
aspects of the body and health, each one corresponding to and
developing a particular aspect. Specifically, Tiger is bone,
Leopard is muscle, Crane is sinew, Dragon is spirit, and Snake is qi.
From: wrankin@ee.egr.duke.edu (William T. Rankin)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: nelsons
Date: 29 Dec 92 18:30:31 GMT
Organization: Duke University EE Dept.; Durham, NC
Originator: wrankin@ee.egr.duke.edu


In article <4447@unisql.UUCP>, wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) writes:
> In article <1992Dec23.035220.25160@cs.mun.ca> robin2@garfield.cs.mun.ca (Robin Collier) writes:
> >Well, I know I have heard several ways of getting out of a full nelson, but I
> >was recenctly told by Nick Cerio at a seminar that if someone actually gets 
> >you in a full nelson, there is no way out of it.  He said that all effective
> 
> 	I've had success escaping from a nelson by putting my palms on my 
> forehead and straightening my back, legs, and arms at the same time.

yeah, but the big question here is: "who put it on you and did s/he know what
they were doing..."

there is a big difference between a good full nelson and just having someone
wrapping their arms around yours in the required position.  did the person interlace
their fingers or actually make a fist?  we're they trying to actively drive your head
through something?  were they standing?  there are lot's more "what ifs..."

i would say, offhand, that i could probably get out of a full-nelson if the person
applying it was lighter than me and (more importantly) had less arm strength than
someone my size.  or if it were improperly applied.

if that person was my size/strength, and managed to get a decent full-nelson, 
i wouldn't have time to try to get out of it before my head and the rest of
my body was heading toward the ground.

as a judo player, i think you can appreciate that you can't just apply a hold to 
a person and then just sit there.  you gotta keep  moving and adjusting to what
your opponent is trying to counter with.

likewise, with a full nelson, the first thing you should do with it (usually ;-)
is to take your victim face down to the ground, and use that leverage to drive their 
face into the pavement.  much easier to control them from there.

same goes for other similar combinations: chicken-wing(arm-bar)/half, double arm-bar,
etc...

just my humble opinion, 

-bill
-- 
                                   ____/    ____/    _  /  _______/  _______/
Scott Stonefield                 /         /       /   /      /         /
srs@eos.ncsu.edu                ___  /    /       /   /      /         /
Sys. Programmer for Eos             /    /       /   /      /         / 
                              _____/   _____/  _____/    __/       __/  




                                    /       __/    /    /
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: cs922096@ariel.yorku.ca (JOSE J. MONTANO)
Subject: Gung-Fu
Organization: York University, Toronto, Canada
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 04:30:07 GMT




      I was curious about the various styles of Gung-Fu.......
      I am coming from WTF TKD and would like to begin training in
Gung-Fu.  The closest kwoon to my place teaches Shaolin Chuan-Fa....
and an acquaintance of mine who trains at another branch of the school 
describes the Gung-Fu style as Five Animal Style......Can anyone tell
me what the actual name of this style is?  Is it Shaolin Chuan-Fa?  Or
is
it another style, like Hung Gar, or Tai Mantis, etc.....  Can anyone
give me a description of the style?
i.e. does it emphasize in-close fighting?  high kicking?  grappling,
etc.?  Any help would be greatly appreciated.....Thanks!!



|)  Joe


Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts,rec.arts.dance,rec.folk-dancing
From: jchristian@desire.wright.edu
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Re: bear hug variation
Date: 24 Dec 92 22:33:56 EST
Organization:  Wright State University 

In article <1992Dec22.165541.15699@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X) writes:
> In article <1992Dec21.172851.1@eagle.wesleyan.edu> ttrimble@eagle.wesleyan.edu writes:
>>In article <1992Dec21.201402.2852@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X) writes:
>>> In article <1992Dec19.175511.6289@desire.wright.edu> jchristian@desire.wright.edu writes:
>>
>  [Bear hug talk]

 
> 	Going limp will make his task vastly more difficult to carry out.
> 	Can't quite explain it verbally.  You have to experience it to
> 	see that it works.  In the case where your attacker is essentially
> 	doing "sutemi" (sacrificing himself to get you) I agree it is best that
> 	you do not allow things to get to this point.  Many such attacks RELY
> 	on the fact that the "victim" will resist physically.  The body, when
> 	tensed up, is  remarkably easy to manipulate.  This is not so when it
> 	goes soft.  The stronger Mr. wrestler feels, the weaker he is both
> 	tactically and strategically.  The question becomes one of whether or
> 	not the defender knows how to take advantage of this.

I took the suggestions everyone gave me and tried them out this past Wednesday. 
Conclusions:  Andy, you are severely underestimating the effect of the thumb in
the sternum.  Even when we were waiting for the attack from behind,
anticipating it so that the instant we felt it our bodies would be in motion,
we still got FUBARed because the pain created by the thumb is VERY intense. 
Performed this on about five different people of varying experience and pain
tolerance, and had them try some of the variations given by this group.  Dumped
them all on their heads.  They did it to me, and I got dumped 4 out of 5. 
Again, this is with us standing there, knowing the attack and just waiting for
it to happen.

Suggest you actually get someone to perform this on you before you write back,
Andy.  The only thing that total relaxation got me was more pain (the attacker
essentially holding me up with the pressure being applied on the sternum--very
painful, and convinced me that total relaxation would be a bad tactic in this
particular instance).
 
Jeff
From: jchristian@desire.wright.edu
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: RE: Bear Hug defense
Date: 24 Dec 92 22:51:42 EST
Organization:  Wright State University 

In article <1h9vevINNrin@master.cs.rose-hulman.edu>, acharya@HYDRA.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU writes:
> 
> it seems to me that the attacker gets more dangerous in sucessive posts.
> i think that if the bear hug attacker is skilled in judo (or some 
> grappling art) and has the element of surprise and wants to hurt me,
> chances are he is going to do just that. 
> 
> either we 'annoint' him with a fixed set of realistic skills or start 
> with him having no skills and successively adding 'ok, now assume he can 
> do this' or 'now he can do this as well as this'. of course, in the latter
> case we will end up with a "no possible defense" senario.
> 
> -mukund

The attacker IS dangerous, for a couple of reasons.  (1) Everyone already knows
how to do it.  Just start your bearhug a little lower than normal, and change
your grip so that your thumb is attacking the sternum.  (2)  It's REALLY easy. 
Even our youngbloods can pull it off right away.  No skill required.

It's not impossible.  Our instructor can get out anytime he wants.  I can get
out about 20% of the time.  It's just very difficult.

Some things I noticed when we practiced this past Wednesday.  The thumb to the
sternum is really important, because that's where the initial shock takes
place.  Normally when you feel a bearhug, you drop your weight or at least
anticipate the attacker lifting your weight up somewhat.  The thumb causes a
pain reaction that lifts you on your toes, which makes it that much easier for
the attacker (this was a consistent reaction).  Even when they were
anticipating the attack--up on their toes they went.  The guys with high pain
tolerance didn't go up as high, but their balance definitely went up.

Try it.  Let me know how it feels.

Jeff
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: ek@patty.gud.siemens.co.at (Ernst Krudl)
Subject: body memory
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 08:24:26 GMT
Organization: SIEMENS Austria Corp., A-1100 Wien, Gudrunstr. 11
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

With learning a new form/kata I usually experience body memory: I can not
recall the form in my mind, but once I start to repeat it, I realize
it is still there. 
Can anyone explain this on a medical/biological level (or any other), please !
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X)
Subject: Re: Model Mugging vs. Martial ARTS
Organization: Twilight Zone
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 18:19:03 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.202833.1@vaxc> accmjm@vaxa.hofstra.edu writes:
>In article <lee5.723273126@husc8>, lee5@husc8.harvard.edu (Patrick Lee) writes:

>Although I have had no Formal training in either MM or the Matial-ARTS, I've
							    ^^^^^^

	Pardon me, but is this a Boston accent?  If so, should that not
	have been spelled "Matial-Aats"?

	Thank you very much.

	-Andy V.
From: bleys@wisdom.bubble.org (Bill Cavanaugh)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Beer War
Date: 3 Jan 93 23:18:02 GMT
Organization: Xanadu Enterprises, Inc.

In article <1993Jan3.143025.6397@desire.wright.edu> jchristian@desire.wright.edu writes:
>Wow.  Is this Beer War ugly or what?  Consensus seems to be that a
>misunderstanding occurred.  Hope it ends soon.
>
>Jeff

Heh.  The mental picture of people with supersoakers full of beer was 
inescapable.

Heck, it hasn't been a war, it's been a discussion.  Mary, Bob, and I might
not agree, but we try to respect each others opinions.  You say potaito,
I'll say potahto...

bill
-- 
 *         Bill Cavanaugh       bleys@wisdom.bubble.org          *
XY + XX = :-)
From: robinson@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Robinson)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: qi - any simple exercises?
Date: 23 Dec 1992 01:25:55 GMT
Organization: Institute of Cognitive Studies, U.C. Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: cogsci.berkeley.edu
Keywords: de-mystification

In article <1992Dec22.032127.5740@psych.psy.uq.oz.au> campbell@psych.psy.uq.oz.au (Campbell Dickson) writes:
>In article <1gtj5uINN9qs@agate.berkeley.edu>, robinson@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Robinson) writes:
>|> Relax.
>|> You should observe (in increasing order of ch'i strength):
>|>    1. Mottled hands
>|>    2. Warm, tingly sensations in the palms
>|>    3. A "repelling magnets" feeling between the palms (for most people,
>|>       this is the level at which they become convinced)
>|>    4. An "outside-the-body" feeling of mechanically linked motion in the
>|>       arms.

>I just tried this (things are winding down for Christmas) and observe that you
>can get <3> using just the instructions above.

Great.  Congradulations.

>Also as you(I) move the hands away from the position described the strength
>of the sensation decreases  (inreased muscle tension in the arms?), so it
>seems that relaxation is at least as important as anything else.

Actually, once you get the "repelling magnets" feeling, feel free to play
around with it in different arm positions.  You will find it is "Coulomb-like"
(closer -> stronger [up to a point]) regardless of arm position.  Also, the
"field strength" will depend more on how "well" you do the preceding ch'i
kung than on how you hold your arms afterward.

>It also seems that the repelling magnets sensation comes with the exhalation,
>and there's a sensation of suction associated with inhalation.

In Chinese, the word ch'i (qi) literally means "breath" (among other things).
Proper breathing is an important part of almost all ch'i kung.  Breathing
is different (subtly so) from respiration (consider that you can keep someone
alive with CPR even if you remove their brain).  The difference is very
important to understanding ch'i.

>I wonder if there's a neat physiological explanation - something to do
>with small changes in blood pressure perhaps? 

The small changes in blood pressure explanation can be quickly eliminated
with simple experimentation.  You have the phenomenon, now be scientific: 
if you think you have a "neat" physiological explanation, design an
experiment to test the hypothesis.


-- 
  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Michael Robinson                          UUCP:   ucbvax!cogsci!robinson
                                        INTERNET: robinson@cogsci.berkeley.edu
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts