Newsgroups: rec.games.moria
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 06:48:52 -0500 
From: "Joseph E. Beck" <jb8n+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Proposal: Beefing up "Holy Word" IV
	<BxH3tM.KKr@acsu.buffalo.edu>


>        I dispute the contention that priests are the most powerful class in
>the game.  Clearly, at high levels, priests can dish out a lot of damage.
>However, they must get there first.  Some of the obstacles:
Yeah, and at 9th level they have 50% chance of becoming gross.

>     - Low level priests lack any offensive magic capability whatsoever.
>They must fight hand to hand, or stock up on wands and projectile weapons,
>an expensive proposition.  Mages on the other hand can take Magic Mis
Ok, so the low level priest is a half troll.  So he has a couple times
the hit points of your mage, fights a hell of a lot better, and
doesn't have the mana problems of having magic missile.  Half troll
priests are weak warriors until they get OOD which should happen by
13th level (by this point you have a *very* high chance).  If you have
problems surviving to 13th level with any class (discounting random
hosage, like black mambas at 50 feet of course...) you have problems
with the game.
 
>      - Mages can select the spells they wish to learn. Priests get their 
>prayers randomly - bestowed by the gods.  There's no telling when the Orb of 
>Draining will be learned.  (I had one priest learn it at level 9 (YESSSSS!) 
>and other at level 28 (OUCH!!))
Sorry, I don't except the "well, there's a really small chance this
will happen" argument.  There's a *chance* you mage will walk into the
dungeon, get attacked by 2 p's that steal 2 spell books and be total
screwed, while the priest just beats them up.


>      - Priests don't get Identify, mages do.  Since mages can Identify EVERY
>item they encounter, they are far more likely to find that Defender laying 
>around at 300 ft (I had this happen.) than is a priest.  A big plus.
Wow.  Another obscenely low probability situation.  I'm not impressed.
You are correct in saying mages getting identify makes them much
better.

>        - Mages get Haste Self.  A big edge against higher level monsters.
Yes.  You've found the 2 areas mages actually excell in.  Now consider
these:
	Who fights better in hand to hand (or don't you run out of
	mana)?
	Who gets better combat spells (I'll take OOD against anything)
	Who gets better info spells?  
		detect evil > detect monsters
		magic mapping > nothing
		detect doors+detect stairs < detect doors/stairs
			(slightly)
	Who gets more hp?
	Who can be a half troll?

>        - The last spell learned by mages, Genocide, is infinitely more useful
>than is the last prayer learned by priests (Holy Word).  It is this imbalance
>that I am trying to correct.
Yes!  They have a weakness.  Now you aim to correct it.  sigh...
Priests fight better physically, fight better magically, and have
better detection abilities than mages.  The only advantages mages have
are "misc spells" haste self, stone to mud, identify.  I'll take the
priest.  Have you ever actually played a half troll priest?

>    Mages already have a spell for Ancient Dragons.  It's called Haste
>Self.  Prior to finding Rings of Speed, my priest hated those critters because
>he was so SLOWWWWWWWW. (Normal speed is slow for Ancient Dragons.)
Mages can run from Ancient Dragons.  Priests just kill them.

>Moreover, priests tend not to be as affluent, and this will be a bigger drain
>on their budgets.  Also, do not discount the deleterious effects of having
>charges drained from certain life saving items (e.g. Staff of Teleportation,
>Curing, etc.)
Around the time you run into disenchanter bats money stops being an
issue.  It's do you bother to dig it out of walls that is the
question.

I don't know, doesn't anyone else see the half troll and say "wow.
this race is mondo".  Then look at the priest and say "wow, fights
incredibly well, has the best detection in the game, *and* they can be
half trolls".  The only argument I see is whether paladins are better,
because mages/rangers sure aren't.

	joe
Newsgroups: rec.games.moria