HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: moser@sw.stratus.com (Tom Moser)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: What's wrong with free-range eggs ?
Date: 2 Oct 92 16:44:48 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <1992Oct1.061205.3088@abo.fi>, abulsari@abo.fi (Abhay Bulsari VT) writes:
> 
> Comparatively  few  people  would eat chicken if they had to kill the birds
> themselves,  

Why do so many vegetarians believe this? I disagree with this completly.
I would eat just as much chicken (maybe more in the case of chicken) if I
had the opportunity to kill and clean the birds myself.

Another argument which holds no weight is that most people do not associate
packaged meat with animals. I was at a local fair recently and we were
standing near a pen containing a few pigs. A family walked up and the father
said to his son (who looked to be about age 3) "Do you know what these are?".
The boy was not sure but he said he thought they were pigs. and his father said,
"That's right - that is where your bacon comes from". 

Even at a very young age children are taught to associate meat with animals - 
there are pictures in the supermarkets of cows with the cuts of meat shown.

Most meat eaters would butcher and clean their meat given the opportunity
skills and need. It is simply a matter of convienence and opportunity and
not one of aversion. Most people have cleaned fish at some time in their 
loves.

I am not trying to defend meat eating or veganism - I just think that
these particular arguments are totally false.

If you are an omnivore reading this group - please respond and let us know if
you would butcher the meat you eat if there was no other way to get it.

-Tom
From: tms@cs.umd.edu (Tom Swiss (not Swift, not Suiss, Swiss!))
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Why does everyone talk only about weight loss?
Date: 28 Sep 92 17:58:53 GMT
Organization: The Reality Liberation Front (pixels to the people!)

chandy@marais.inria.fr (Chandra SHEKHAR) writes:
>
>I want to remain a vegan, but I also want to be
>well-built and muscular like my meat-eating friends.
>Any simple suggestions? (Avoid standard responses
>like "eat more protein", "do weights", etc. I have
>tried them all.)

     Weight training will help you gain some musculature, although you
have to stick with it. But if your genes say you're going to be a
slender fellow, you're going to be a slender fellow whatever you eat
and however much you work out.

===============================================================================
Tom Swiss/tms@cs.umd.edu  |  "Born to die"   |   Keep your laws off my brain!
     "What's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding?" - Nick Lowe 
          This is a .signature antibody. Vaccinate your .sig!
     "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
      persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.  Therefore all
      progress depends on the unreasonable man."
      -- George Bernard Shaw
From: bj368@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike E. Romano)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: The protein myth
Date: 27 Sep 1992 06:59:09 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In the last thread, Mr. Bulsari states a well documented 
discussion of the merits of lower proteing intake.
This discussion focuses on ==The American Diet==.

Yet I notice that Mr. Bulsari is from an Academy in Finland.
It is my impression from reading about diets that none of
the countries of Europe (including Finland of course)
practice a rational diet of healthy food.
Wouldn't it be appropriate to include mention of the
==typical diet in Finland== to see if perhaps the
people of Finland have achieved the proper diet?

I agree that perhaps diet problems in America are
greater in some ways than other countries which is partly
because of the enormous prosperity (until the new recession)
which has brought fast food, inexpensive meat and packaged
food of all types, etc. which in fact few countries of
Europe have created if any.
For example in Scandinavia it is a problem to obtain
fresh fruit and vegetables in the winter.
It is always interesting to compare diets between
countries.
-- 
            Mike Romano     Univ. Calif. Berkeley
From: mkay@sequent.com (Mary Kay Petersen)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Freezing/Thawing Tofu
Keywords: tofu
Date: 5 Oct 92 19:27:16 GMT
Article-I.D.: sequent.1992Oct5.192716.6380
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.


Does anyone have tips regarding freezing/thawing tofu?  I made a
recipe last week that called for:

1 cake tofu, frozen, thawed and shredded

The method I used resulted in soggy, crumbled, tofu.  Of course,
in hindsight, I don't think I should have frozen the tofu in the
package (water and all).  I also defrosted the tofu in the
microwave because of time constraints.

Any ideas?  Thanks!
---
  /_ _   /		sequent computer system, inc.	+-----+
 / / /  /__/ __		15450 sw koll parkway		|   # |
/ / /  / \__(_/_/_/	beaverton, or  97006-6063	|     |
mary kay petersen/	mkay@sequent.com 		+-----+
(503)578-5817 __/
From: young@serum.kodak.com
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Detoxification
Date: 29 Sep 92 15:45:45 GMT
Article-I.D.: pixel.1992Sep29.154545.4455
Reply-To: young@serum.kodak.com
Organization: Clinical Diagnostics Division, Eastman Kodak Company
Originator: young@sasquatch

In article <1992Sep29.063829.13844@abo.fi> abulsari@abo.fi (Abhay Bulsari VT) writes:
>This too comes from Michael Traub, and may have originated from
>Ferrell Wheeler, like some other postings have.
>
>Every  other  popular  health  book  these  days  seems to contain the word
>"detoxification".  We  are  urged  to  change  our  diet, fast or purge our
>systems to facilitate internal "cleansing".

   [...remainder of article deleted...]

Careful and analytical readers will note that this article on detoxification
not only had NO primary references to support its contentions, but it was
not even presented from a documented source, so we can't call them or write
and ASK for references.  Even PCRM does better than that.


-Rich Young (These are not Kodak's opinions.)
From: amacdona@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: mustard
Date: 6 Oct 92 10:20:26 -0300
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

In article <1992Oct6.101832.7975@ac.dal.ca>, amacdona@ac.dal.ca writes:
 In article <BvnLFK.L4C@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca>, molnar@Bisco.CAnet.CA (Tom Molnar) writes:
> 
> Would anyone know how to make prepared mustard at home?  I like the taste of
> mustard on steamed veggies, but the salt content is too high for my liking.
> The label on my bottle of French's mustard lists the contents as vinegar,
> mustard seed, salt, spices.  So it doesn't sound too complicated.  I tried
> mixing some dry mustard with vinegar and water, but the mustard powder was
> far too potent, and the mixture far too watery when I reduced the amount of
> mustard.  So, does any kind soul know how to make prepared mustard at home?
> If so, I'd really appreciate pointers.
> 
> Thanks,
> Tom
 
 	I used to make mustard when I worked in a "health food store", and 
 I forget the whole recipe, but we used to boil the vinegar, then mix in 
 the mustard powder and spices.  I don't think there was any water in this
 mixture.  Also, the mustard turned out to be quite hot, which could be
 a function of the type of powder we used.  
 
 - Allison MacDonald

PS - Sorry about the <NONE> posting, I'm new at this.
From: davids@hpsdde.sdd.hp.com (David Schwantner)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: vegetarians in institutions
Date: 29 Sep 1992 10:47:37 -0700
Organization: Hewlett Packard, San Diego Division
NNTP-Posting-Host: hpsdde.sdd.hp.com

In article <1992Sep27.000247.27510@leland.Stanford.EDU> coleman@leland.Stanford.EDU (Michele Coleman) writes:
>    The last such article I read did arouse my curiosity about how
>vegetarians fare in the military and other institutions such as prisons.
>I imagine these environments as being somewhat hostile to unconventional
>ideas such as vegetarianism.  Does anyone have any information or
>anecdotes? 

My wife's cousin is a Marine Corp drill sergeant, and a vegetarian. He
says that it is very easy for him because the food services always have a 
salad bar, and usually a pasta bar. Also, because he maintains excellent
health, he gets no complaints or ribbings. A side note: He once told me
about how they restrict the diets of the recruits - he stands at the end of
the mess hall line and looks at each of their plates as they come down, and
tells them to go back if their food does not look o.k., something like
"Boy, go back and put some more of avocados on that salad, you need to put
some weight on!" or the inverse for the overweight ones:-).

Also, since he is a veg for health reasons, and not for religious/moral ones,
he isn't overly concerned with ocassionally eating something that may have
animal products in it (i.e. something added behind the scenes to a vegetable
dish). He is also Ovo-Lacto, so that cuts him some more slack.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
David Schwantner - Hewlett-Packard - San Diego Site
Internet : davids@hpsdde.sdd.hp.com / davids%hpsdde@sdd.hp.com
Slow path: 16399 W. Bernardo Dr., San Diego, CA 92127, USA
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer: All opinions expressed here are the sole resposibility of the  
author, and therefore are neither shared, owned, nor payed for by H-P. 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: young@serum.kodak.com
Subject: Re: cow's milk
Originator: young@sasquatch
Reply-To: young@serum.kodak.com
Organization: Clinical Diagnostics Division, Eastman Kodak Company
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 92 22:06:38 GMT

In article <1992Oct1.215551.22359@pixel.kodak.com> young@serum.kodak.com writes:
>In article <BvG8y3.6Ky@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca> molnar@Bisco.CAnet.CA (Tom Molnar) writes:

[...re: PCRM...]

>>a non-profit association of 2,000 doctors
>
>	...which is .005% of U.S. physicians...

   Oops, sorry, that should be 5%, NOT .005%.


-Rich Young (These are not Kodak's opinions.)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: jereese@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (jean reese)
Subject: Re: A free opportunity to spout opinions!!
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 12:50:16 GMT

In article <92272.174441JRUNNE@auvm.american.edu> <JRUNNE@auvm.american.edu> writes:

>1) Anyone else out there who's set up a vegetarian lifestyle in a conservative
>(ie read:  hard to find basics) town?

My husband and I became vegetarians in Oak Ridge, Tennessee, my hometown.
While it's not a "conservative" town, it doesn't have the amenities of the
larger towns, i.e. co-ops, farmer's markets ... we had to go to Knoxville
once in a while to get our "basics." But it is possible.
>
>2)  On a starving student budget?

That's the easy part. It's much cheaper to be vegetarian than not. Don't 
worry about that. Buy vegetables at the Farmer's Market (hopefully you
have one). If not, join or frequent the local co-op. If there's not one
of those around, Krogers will do for vegetables.

>
>3)  Favorite cookbooks?
>
This Net!!!!!!! Get all you can from this source, and contribute when
you find something good. It's a wonderful source.


>4)  Necessary equipment?  Remember, I live in an efficiency with
>NO (that's right, NO ) counterspace--I balance things on the "rib"
>between the sink and the stove, and very very little storage space, almost
>all used up.  No, make that all used up.  If I need new stuff, I'll hafta trash
>some of my old.  Yes, I do need a wok.  I can probably ditch some of my ancient
>gross Tupperware to make room for it, or say screw my landlady and put up
>hook-nails for it.  Anything else, though?

I have basic pots and pans. No special equipment unless you really want
to go in for making pasta, or ice cream, or whatever. But you don't
NEED anything special to be vegetarian.

>
>5)  And, of course, any general hints (especially those to avoid "blobbing out"
>by overdoing it on milk, cheese, and eggs to "make up" for the meat) would be
>GREATLY appreciated...
>
>Thanks in advance--feel free to reply directly, I check my account often...Hope
>to hear from y'all soon!  ---Jen, the future  ovo-lacto veggie?
>

Well, I like cheese. But I've gotten away from milk. Try "Better than Milk"
which is also called "souvex" or something like that. It's great. You don't
need to make up for the meat, no matter what my mother says. You'll be
stronger, have more energy, and be able to live off your savings by
ditching the meat.

Have fun!


Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: xmpp@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Melody Paul)
Subject: Re: cheap veggie eatin'
Organization: Educational Computing Network
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 13:31:20 GMT

Ok so what's the equivalent here in Chicago at say...Cubs Food Stores,
or Sams or Dominicks or Omni???
-- 
Melody P. Paul			Office:   708/534-0200
Technical Editor		Fax:      708/534-2042
Educational Computing Network	Internet: xmpp@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu
University Park, IL 60466	BITNET:   xmpp@ecnuxa
From: tms@cs.umd.edu (Tom Swiss (not Swift, not Suiss, Swiss!))
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: cow's milk
Date: 2 Oct 92 17:08:31 GMT
Organization: The Reality Liberation Front (pixels to the people!)

exusag@exu.ericsson.se writes:
>So when did Dr. Spock become an authority on nutrition?

     He's more of an authority than the Dairy Council, that's for sure.

>Serena
>
>-So how much do you think they PAID him to say that?

     Why pay a man to speak the truth? Milk _is_ the most unnatural food
for humans. It's food for baby cows, not for humans.

===============================================================================
Tom Swiss/tms@cs.umd.edu  |  "Born to die"   |   Keep your laws off my brain!
     "What's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding?" - Nick Lowe 
          This is a .signature antibody. Vaccinate your .sig!
  "As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain;
   as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality." -- Albert Einstein
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: chips@eskimo.celestial.com (cav)
Subject: Re: Kosher gelatin
Organization: >>> Eskimo North (206)-FOR-EVER <<<
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 00:47:00 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.220046.15034@ucselx.sdsu.edu> maxc0452@ucselx.sdsu.edu (Legene) writes:
}
}  Hi!  I'm a lacto-ovo vegearian.  I was eating some yogurt (that's my
}effort toward political correcness for the year) and noticed that it
}had "kosher gelatin" as one f the ingredients.  Did a horse die just so I could
}eat yogurt?  I really don't like it *that* much!
}
}

Horses are not kosher so it didn't come from one. "Kosher gelatin" that is
used in yogurt is almost most certainly from NON-animal source. While some
rabbi's do allow the use of animal bones for gelatin, very few if any would 
allow such gelatin in yougurt.

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: leslie@cgrg.ohio-state.edu (Leslie Bishko)
Subject: Re: Bean curd. Help!
Organization: Advanced Computing Center for the Arts and Design
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 13:01:30 GMT

In article <1992Sep29.142717.1@geovax.ed.ac.uk> brigid@geovax.ed.ac.uk writes:

>case with the veggies. Even well mashed and put through the 
>blender the tofu had a pate' consistency which didn't really
>help to fill the pastry case very well. I tried adding some 
>liquid but didn't want to add too much in case it spoiled the
>whole thing. Even after cooking it was still pretty cloying. My 
> ...

Have you tried using soft tofu?  Since I'm not much of a soft tofu
fan, here's what I do:

Break up a pound of firm tofu in the blender.  Add one cup of soy
milk and puree.  It may take some stirring to get all the chunks
blended.  Sautee your favorite quiche filling, mix with the pureed
tofu, season (turmeric and cumin are my favorites), and pour into
the quiche shell.  Texture isn't as creamy as the dairy version - if
this is desirable, at grated soy cheese and a little more soymilk.

- Leslie

-- 
Leslie Bishko
leslie@cgrg.ohio-state.edu


Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: tara@socrates.umd.edu (Tara McDermott)
Subject: Re: vegetarians in institutions
Organization: University of Maryland University College
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 19:08:00 GMT

coleman@leland.Stanford.EDU (Michele Coleman) writes:

>    At least once a year I see some article in the newspaper extolling
>new developments in the U.S. military field rations.  The "products"
>described frequently seem rather scary, like pork sandwiches which
>last for months without refrigeration.  Predictably, I never see
>vegetarian food described.
>    The last such article I read did arouse my curiosity about how
>vegetarians fare in the military and other institutions such as prisons.
>I imagine these environments as being somewhat hostile to unconventional
>ideas such as vegetarianism.  Does anyone have any information or
>anecdotes?  What about people who follow restricted diets for religious
>reasons?  What's the situation in India, where vegetarianism is more
>accepted?

Well, this should be a good annecdote!  I was arrested recently in
Hegins (for protesting the pigeon shoot), and was incarcerated for 11
days.  Schuyllkill County Prison served us vegan food!  They even
called up the Vegetarian Resource Group for a packet of vegan recipes
to make us, before hand while preparing for us.  This probably had
something to do with Ingrid Newkirk and the 8 people who were arrested
the previous year refusing to eat the food unless it was vegan.

It was actually pretty good - for institutional food.  We had oatmeal
or grits for breakfast (ick), 2 pieces of supermarket ww bread every
meal, a piece of fresh fruit every meal, and either coffee in the
morning or sugared koolaid type drinks for lunch/dinner.  We usually
had soup or a spread for lunch with a small serving of nuts.  Dinner
usually had two main items which varied from a pasta dish to anything.
Unfortunately, since there were so many of us arrested they had us
eating off of styrofoam trays and bowls and cups and plastic spoons
and forks (but no knives - though I can't imaging causing injury with
a plastic knife!).  

I think this is probably the best vegetarian food a prison could make
(which I got very sick of after a week though).  The other prisoners
were told specifically "don't DARE ask for their food". 

One of the other arrestees told me some stories of jails she had been
in.  Montgomery jail in MD gave her a heap of cold canned kidney beans
when she refused to eat their meat.  

If you are really interested in knowing what jail vegetarian food is
like, I suggest calling up AR organizations and speaking to the
veterans.  They've usually been to a great many jails.

Tara
-- 
Tara McDermott                     You've got a friend in Pennsylvania,
Xref: sparky rec.food.veg:9380 rec.food.cooking:17444 sci.med.nutrition:778
From: amy@sequent.com (Amy Paschal)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg,rec.food.cooking,sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Searching for Menu/Nutritional Planning Software
Date: 6 Oct 92 16:17:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: sequent.1992Oct6.161709.17251
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc.


I'm looking for a software package that can be used to plan 
nutitionally balanced menus. Specifically, I would like one
that uses the American Diabetes Association exchange system for
planning the nutrition.

Optional nice features would be the ability to link menus with 
recipes and the ability to generate grocery lists based on the
menu plans and the recipes. 

I am willing to look at software that runs on UNIX, MacIntosh or
PCs.

If you know of any software that might fit the bill please send
me:

Software package name and vendor 
A short summary of its features
List of the platforms its runs on 
Address or phone number of vendor if you have it so I
	can obtain more info

Please send me e-mail as I don't read all of the newsgroups
posted regularly (amy@sequent.com). I'll post a summary if there
is interest.

Thanks,
Amy
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: coleman@leland.Stanford.EDU (Michele Coleman)
Subject: vegetarians in institutions
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 92 00:02:47 GMT

    At least once a year I see some article in the newspaper extolling
new developments in the U.S. military field rations.  The "products"
described frequently seem rather scary, like pork sandwiches which
last for months without refrigeration.  Predictably, I never see
vegetarian food described.
    The last such article I read did arouse my curiosity about how
vegetarians fare in the military and other institutions such as prisons.
I imagine these environments as being somewhat hostile to unconventional
ideas such as vegetarianism.  Does anyone have any information or
anecdotes?  What about people who follow restricted diets for religious
reasons?  What's the situation in India, where vegetarianism is more
accepted?
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: dooley@aurora.physics.utoronto.ca (Lois-Anna Dooley)
Subject: Re: what meat substitute can I use?
Organization: University of Toronto Physics/Astronomy/CITA
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 17:56:51 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.121940.14588@unipalm.co.uk> steve@unipalm.co.uk (Steve Ladlow) writes:
>I am not a vegetarian but I do like to eat vegetarian dishes for a change
>to meat based dishes. I do not like nuts, apart from the occasional almond
>flavouring and I just can't stand that tofu junk. 

I'd bet $1,000,000 you've never had tofu cooked by a good cook!  Next
time you're in Toronto stop by my house for dinner!

>My question is what can I base my vegetarian cooking on to keep up the
>protein levels etc. while at the same time have some tasty and interesting
>food?

If protein is really a major concern for you, then combinations of
beans & grains are great.  Also, macaroni & cheese is always yummy.
One of my favorite bean/grain combos is corn & pinto beans.  If you
can get corn tortillas, wrap them around refried beans and salsa
and your favorite toppings (jack cheese, sour cream, lettuce, tomato,
guacamole, black olives) for an amazing burrito.  Flour tortillas
are good too but cornmeal ones are tastier.  Or, just get one of those
taco kits and use spiced-up refried beans instead of ground beef.

Oh, I just noticed from your address that you might be in the U.K.
If so, it's probably easier for you to get Indian-type ingredients
than Mexican-type.  Well, curried legumes on rice are amazing and
fast too.


Lois-Anna


Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: randy@rdr.com (Randy Tidd)
Subject: Vegan wanna-be seeks advice
Reply-To: randy@rdr.com (Randy Tidd)
Organization: RDR, Inc.
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 01:42:56 GMT


I've been vegetarian for about year, though I still occasionally eat  
dairy products and things with eggs in them (noodles, breads, etc),  
and occasionally some seafood items.

I would like to cut out all animal products from my diet.  However, I  
work out pretty frequently (6-10 hrs a week), including aerobic  
exercise and weight lifting.  As it is, I'm eating almost  
continuously and am always hungry.  I've been known to have 3 bowls  
of cereal / oatmeal / yogurt / fruit / etc for breakfast, but still  
be starving for lunch 3 hours later.  The only time I feel "full" for  
any period of time is when I stray from my preferred diet, by eating  
animal products -- pizza, bread & cheese, fish, etc.

What I need to know from any vegans out there that are pretty active  
is:  what can I eat that is filling, nutritious, non-fattening, and  
vegan?  The more common problems of how to get my required calcium  
and protein are also concerns of mine.

These topics have been discussed here pretty voluminously, so please  
send responses by e-mail.


Randy
randy@rdr.com
From: cf549@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jim Baker)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Where's Michael Traub??
Date: 6 Oct 1992 22:11:07 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Michael Traub is very active on the Granola listserver.