HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jon.taylor@uuserv.cc.utah.edu (JON M. TAYLOR)
Subject: Re: Don't let the Amiga Die (Part II)!!!
Organization: The University of Utah
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 19:17:34 GMT

In article <10264@cbmger.de.so.commodore.com> peterk@cbmger.de.so.commodore.com (Dr Peter Kittel Germany) writes:
>From: peterk@cbmger.de.so.commodore.com (Dr Peter Kittel Germany)
>Subject: Re: Don't let the Amiga Die (Part II)!!!
>Date: 11 Dec 92 08:37:37 GMT
>In article <jon.taylor.59.723934740@uuserv.cc.utah.edu> jon.taylor@uuserv.cc.utah.edu (JON M. TAYLOR) writes:
>>I know 
>>that a lot of people here (usually transplants from the UNIX and DOS worlds) 
>>like the high-end stuff, but face it folks, pc's can run "applications" 
>>software BETTER than Amigas can.  
>          ^^^^^^
>That's WRONG! Why should they? Tell me one technical reason! (If someone
>now comes with screen refresh rates and resolutions then let me state that
>this has become better on PCs also only during the very last years, the
>Amiga/Clone situation was identical before.)
>

	OK, I'll tell you why.  It's only recently that PCs have begun to 
"burden" themselves with multitasking GUIs.  Before that, they could devote 
almost all the horsepower of their machines to running apps.  An they had 
lots of horsepower.  Insofar as we are only looking at productivity, a PC 
with DOS, VGA and a [3,4]86 processor can run quattro pro BETTER and FASTER 
than an Amiga, or even a PC with windows or OS/2.  It doesn't have the 
overhead, and it has the horsepower.  It doesn't have a blitter, copper, 
cool sound, etc.  because it doesn't need them (for these kind of apps, 
anyway).  All the stuff that the Amiga has is unnecessary for running 
productivity apps, because all you really need for those is CPU horsepower 
and halfway decent, non-coprocessed, framebuffer-type graphics.  The PC's 
have the maketing momentum/presence to be able to be business AND game 
computers - the Amiga does not.

	_jon
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: papresco@cantor.math.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Prescod)
Subject: Re: Future Amiga chipsets
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 23:19:11 GMT

>At any rate the zorro III absolutely kills all pc busses out there for the pc.
>I haven't looked into those sbuses and stuff on workstations.

Yeah, right.  I can GUARANTEE you that the PC will have a 64 bit bus
before the Amiga, no question.

Hear me now, believe me later.  There will be 64 bit bus PCs before
the end of 1993.

>And the lowest common denominator will be for a long time be 16bit graphics
>because of the flooding of 16bit graphic machines in the past couple years.

With a graphics driver, you don't HAVE to write to the lowest common
denominator.  You just "write" and the OS (perfereably OS/2 or unix)
scales it for you.

>And with the amiga's aga, and the Electronic Arts possible computer 3do, 
>should clean up.

The PC will move COMPLETELY to VESA before all Amiga users move to AGA.
The Amiga sells a notoriously high percentage of low end (A600)
machines, and Amiga users hold on to their machines for a long, long
time.



Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: papresco@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Paul Prescod)
Subject: Re: Don't let the Amiga Die (Part II)!!!
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 18:44:58 GMT

>>like the high-end stuff, but face it folks, pc's can run "applications" 
>>software BETTER than Amigas can.  
>          ^^^^^^
>That's WRONG! Why should they? Tell me one technical reason! (If someone
>now comes with screen refresh rates and resolutions then let me state that
>this has become better on PCs also only during the very last years, the
>Amiga/Clone situation was identical before.)

Why do you insist on living in the past?  Perhaps because when the
Amiga was released it had a 4 year technology head start with the PC,
and now they are neck in neck,and a year and a half from now it will all 
be over.




Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,alt.emulators.ibmpc.apple2,alt.sex.motss,alt.flame,alt.exploding.kibo
From: pashdown@javelin.sim.es.com (Pete Ashdown)
Subject: Re: Emulatin' the GS s'more, mon
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp.
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 20:58:49 GMT

irie@husc11.harvard.edu (Robert E. Irie) writes:

>hmmm I dont think Apple II's were designed and built in Japan..

I believe IIgs and the later IIe line were manufactured in Japan.
-- 
			What's the frequency, Kenneth?

DISCLAIMER: My writings have NOTHING to do with my employer.  Keep it that way.
Pete Ashdown    pashdown@slack.sim.es.com    ...uunet!slack.sim.es.com!pashdown
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.misc
From: das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A)
Subject: Re: How does this HAM kludge work?
Organization: University of Southwestern Louisiana
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 02:33:46 GMT

Thanks, NCW, for the info!

--
Dan Stephenson                                                 das9674@usl.edu  
"There once was a Lady from Hyde/who ate some bad apples and died/but while we
lamented/the apples fermented/making cider inside her inside!" 
                        -Member of the Court, Texas Renaissance Festival  
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: Re: Help me not to change computers!
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 16:07:12 GMT
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
X-Posted-From: phoenix.msi.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

Frank R. Dana Jr. (danaf@bray1b.its.rpi.edu) wrote:
:
: Hey, Wing Commander **IS** a rotten game! It's pretty, and all, but it's no
: great game. Nobody I've met ever even PLAYS it - except to show off.
:

I, my roommate, and several friends of mine who hate computers were obsessed
with the game.  We all found it tremendously fun to play, even fun to watch
other people play.  It was the first game I was obsessed with since M.U.L.E.
in the 8-bit days.  I do think, however, that Origin should have added more
new elements to WCII.

:
: Wolfenstein 3D is a neat concept, sort of a real time Dungeon Master. I've 
: never actually played it... but the discussion was with regard to "feel". 
: Somehow, scrolling your guy around the playfield by spinning the mouse like
: a trackball in heat just doesn't seem like the right "feel" to me!
:

Try a joystick.

:
: =======Amiuser============Frank R. Dana, Jr.============Doc Ami=======     
:
--
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
| JERRY J. SHEKHEL  | Molecular Simulations Inc. | Time just fades the pages |
| Drummers do it... |     Burlington, MA USA     | in my book of memories.   |
|    ... In rhythm! |        jerry@msi.com       |         -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: papresco@cantor.math.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Prescod)
Subject: Re: Bus Standards
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 21:02:38 GMT

>Need? MCA and EISA may offer respectable performance, but neither is
>as ubiquitous as ISA. And for most people, the need is purely an
>illusion.

I agree wholeheartedly.  Few people need a faster bus then ISA.  But
since Amiga users seem to think the Bus makes the machine, I felt the
need to point out that there are several PC buses, and new ones being
planned all the time.  We've got 16 bit ISA, 32 bit MCA, EISA and MCA2,
as well as 32 bit local bus VESA and soon 64 bit VESA and 64 bit PCI.

>Boy, those benevolent demigods answer your every wish and prayer.
>Graphics and sound capabilities have been standard equipment on
>most platforms for years.

At what price?  First there was the higher fiscal price, which brought
reduced sales, which brought  reduced applications to those platforms
that supported all this whiz bang technology before the market was
ready for it.  Now the market is ready for it in a BIG WAY and PCs are
incorporating it IN A BIG WAY.  Multimedia is not just a PC buzzword.
Within the next year there will be more money spent on PC multimedia
then there has been on Amiga multimedia in it's entire lifespan.  I
can't prove it, because those kind of statistics are seldom compiled,
but it can be proven through observation.

>The 'people' I see complaining almost exclusively amount to one
>individual. Of course we all want great applications, but everything
>is ultimately a tradeoff.

No, it is not just Mark Barrett.  He complaned about tax programs and
wordperfect, but there was a science scholar who has a PC to run TeX or
scientific word, and another guy that said he had a PC to run astronomy
programs.  And I don't know how many "closet" PC users there are here!
From: ggiles@cie.uoregon.edu (Gregg Giles)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Future Amiga chipsets
Date: 16 Dec 92 04:19:56 GMT
Organization: University of Oregon Campus Information Exchange
NNTP-Posting-Host: cie.uoregon.edu

In article <BzBzGq.J3w@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett) writes:
>
>   Hardly.  IBM clones are a special case.  Most of the hardware that you
>would hang off a SCSI bus is available in PC-specific versions, so there
>are fewer penalties for a PC having IDE rather than SCSI.  There are fewer
>tape drives, CD-ROM drives, etc.. available in Amiga-specific or Mac-
>specific versions, so that Amigas and Macs are forced to standardize on
>SCSI.  It works well enough in the Mac world, as all Macs have SCSI.  But

   Ah, but Marc, have you ever seen an IDE CD-ROM drive? Funny, I have a lab
full of MS-DOS machines that all require SCSI cards in order to use a CD-ROM
drive (even a lowly PS/2 requires a special MicroChannel SCSI card for that).
Additionally, you'll find that if it's SCSI, you can use it on just about
any computer - particularly CD-ROM drives. I've got drives at work like the
NEC Intersect and the Chinon which I could probably pull out of the machines
there (MS-DOS) and plug them into my Amiga with no problems.

>when Commodore put IDE into the A4000, it cut substantially the number of
>options available to A4000 owners for expanding their Amigas.

   No, Commodore lowered the price of the base system and left open the
ability to configure the system to the tastes of the customer. What IDE
provided was the ability to run a hard disk and keep the system cost low.
Yeah, while IDE is a mutant-bastard-psycho-hose-beast controller from hell,
it does work and it is inexpensive. If someone can afford an A4000, then 
they can damn-well afford a SCSI controller to go in it.
   I'm really curious to see how your postings change when you get out of
school and start working at a computer-related company. You'd be amazed how
much weight budget carries. Common-sense doesn't always lead the way,
unfortunately. Luckily, there are some rather sneaky engineers about that
like us. (Well, they probably like most of us. Okay, some of us. So they
probably hate all of us. <Grin>)

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gregg Giles (Dynamix, Inc.)                     Willy Beamish Development Team 
All opinions expressed are my own.     (MS-DOS CD-ROM, Sega-CD), Space Quest V
ggiles@cie.uoregon.edu, BIX: ggiles                 Author of DiskInfo, ZSound
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: Evan Torrie <torrie@cs.stanford.edu>
Subject: Re: OS/2 vs Win NT (was: 4 Colour Interfaces : -( )
X-Xxmessage-Id: <A75036411D01004B@freethought.stanford.edu>
X-Xxdate: Sun, 13 Dec 92 08:37:21 GMT
Organization: Stanford University
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d13
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 92 08:37:42 GMT

In article <Bz5vrq.AA0@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> Paul Prescod,
papresco@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu writes:

>IBM is doing it.  Whether it will be successful or saleable is another
>question, but it's being done.  It will have a Mach microkernel.  Which
>is not so great in my books, because Mach is a little optimized for
>Unix, and Microsoft just HIRED some of the people who wrote Mach to
>write NT's microkernel!

  NT does not have a microkernel; at least not in the research computer 
science sense of the word.  For example, all of the file handling etc 
takes place in the deep internals of the kernel, unlike microkernels like 
Mach.
  NT does have a hardware abstraction layer, but that's not much more 
than an abstraction of what Unix has had for fifteen years.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Evan Torrie.  Stanford University, Class of 199?      
torrie@cs.stanford.edu 
Embrace rationalism, reject superstition.           Break away from the past.
"...there is only one thing worse than having marketing people on a project,
 and that is having no marketing people on a project."  - Larry Tesler.
From: bloc1469@ee.ee.uwm.edu (Gregory R. Block)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Future Amiga chipset
Date: 15 Dec 1992 03:20:06 GMT
Organization: Electrical Engineering Dept. University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.2.33

In article <Bz9Bno.GsH@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett) writes:
>   Commodore has never proven to me, to my satisfaction, that the CDTV is
>still alive.

You twit.  Why won't you just acknowledge the fact that when you said
that CDTV was officially dead that the only thing "official" about it
was that you were officially fucking wrong.

It's _STUPID_ shit like this that you pull that piss off so many of
the readers of this newsgroup.

Time for a new sig.  Sorry, Bobby, you're gone.

Greg


--
(: (: (: (: Have you overdosed on smileys today?  Why NOT!?! :) :) :) :)
(:   "Commodore has never proven to me, to my satisfaction, that      :)
(:    Marc Barrett is still alive."			       -Wubba :)
(: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: () :) :) :) Wubba, the Dark Angel :)
From: jaker@csugrad.cs.vt.edu (Jake Rose)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: World of Commodore Toronto
Date: 12 Dec 92 06:36:30 GMT
Organization: Virginia Tech Computer Science Dept, Blacksburg, VA

skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls) writes:

>In article <1992Dec11.170125.12535@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA> tmc@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Tim Ciceran) writes:
>Networking has been possible with Amigas for some time now and I myself have
>been using the A2065 Ethernet board with AS225 software for over a year.  It
>is fine for my use, but it is not as polished as it should be and there are
>several features missing.  I understand that the new software is going to
>be a big improvement and I eagerly await its release.

I'm very happy to hear that 3.1 will have TCP/IP inbuilt - I am one of those
people who wants TCP/IP (with SLIP) but has no use for an Ethernet card (yet!),
and this rumor makes me *very* pleased (it is just a rumor as yet, isn't it?)
to be using an Amiga (I will snag the Kickstart ROM image file from CBM as
soon as they make it available!!!!) 3000.  I really think that kickstart images
as opposed to ROMs are the way to go - I'd absolutely hate it if I had to have
a hardware (well, firmware, but it amounts to the same thing) upgrade with each
new major OS release...

>Skip Sauls, Amiga Advocate who is very please with C='s latest announcements
>skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu
-- 

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Jake Rose               :: "Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do!"
jaker@csugrad.cs.vt.edu ::                                              --Karel
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: d0per@dtek.chalmers.se (Martin Hiller)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Quick questions about 68020 and Commodore
Date: 12 Dec 92 23:09:07 GMT
Organization: Chalmers University of Technology, Gothenburg Sweden

traynor@fnalo.fnal.gov writes:

>Hi--

>Two questions:

>o What is the difference between a 68020 and a 68020EC?
It is the same as a 68020, with the minor modification that it has only a
24-bit address bus.
>o Is Commodore going to come out with the 1200 equivlent with
>  a 68030 and MMU--sort of a AGA 3000 without any expansion slots?

>Please e-mail replies directly.  Thanks.

>					-Mike Traynor

>NNN  NN DDDD    Mike Traynor (ND '86)(Rice '93?) |||     Amiga 500 owner   ///
> N N N   D  D   Fermilab PO Box 500 MS 221 E683  |||     w/MMR 13 Meg RAM ///
> N  NN   D  D   Batavia IL, 60510               //|\\    190 Meg HD   \\\/// 
>NN   NN DDDD    (708) 879-6095 [ans. mach.]    /// \\\   14.4Kbps modem\XX/
--
    // Martin Hiller (d0per@dtek.chalmers.se)| Currently doing military service
\\ //  Chalmers University of Technology     | for the King of Sweden at Lv6
 \X/   Gothenburg, Sweden, Europe            | in Gothenburg.
*******************************************************************************
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A)
Subject: Re: Dan flipped through an AmigaWorld, and:
Organization: University of Southwestern Louisiana
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 06:14:00 GMT

In article <1992Dec13.025825.19202@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA> tmc@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Tim Ciceran) writes:
>In article <1992Dec13.021529.20368@usl.edu> das9674@usl.edu
>(Stephenson Daniel A) writes:
>
>>2) Wow, that WB 2.0 looks AWFUL.  Granted, I haven't actually used it, but
>>from the screen shot, it looks SO primitive!  I guess it is the 4 colors only
>>that does it.  Really, it hardly looks any better than the mouse-interface 
>>for MSDOS 5.0's EDIT.COM.  Or QBasic. You get the picture.  Really, you guys
>>may claim Windows and OS/2 looks to flashy/blocky/clumsy, but WB2.0 looks
>>primitive as hell!
>
>Let's be fair: what screen shot are you referring to? Many of the images are
>either software which does not take advantage of 2.0 (1.3 hold-outs),
>aren't style-guide compliant, or are taken from low-resolution displays.
>
>In fact, in the January issue, you'd have a hard time coming up with anything
>that didn't fit into the above categories. Unfortunately, most of us feel
>the same way you do.

I am not too postive.  The Final Copy II shots looked adeqate, I suppose, mostly
because you didn't see too much of the Workbench.  Mostly, the scrollbars
looked primitive, the scroll button was SO basic.  The sizing button on the
top right, while I not understand them right off from jsut look at them (
which I should have done, BTW) looked too big.  Gosh, Amigans bash Windows
for BIG BLOCKY buttons?! Sheesh!

There doesn't seem to be any commonality among windows.  In Windows, there
is always the command-button thingee in the top left, and the super-inuitive
max/min buttons on the top right.  The scrollbars in Windows look more
professional, IMO.

That, and those awful 4 colors!  Sheesh!  You Amigans REALLY don't know what
you're missing with 4 colors.  Going back to a 4 color mode
once used t 16 or more colors should be impossible, IMO.  Really, those WB
screens looked like so much CGA.  Ack.

And the Workbench is suppose to be SO SOO GREAT!?  Ha!


-- 
Dan Stephenson                                                 das9674@usl.edu  
"There once was a Lady from Hyde/who ate some bad apples and died/but while we
lamented/the apples fermented/making cider inside her inside!" 
                        -Member of the Court, Texas Renaissance Festival
From: kentd@FtCollins.NCR.com (Kent Dalton)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Usual offtopic junk
Date: 14 Dec 92 14:07:35 GMT
	<1992Dec7.065331.6096@desire.wright.edu>
	<RCORMAC.92Dec7161831@abc.cs.oberlin.edu>
Followup-To: alt.politics
Organization: NCR Microelectronics, Ft. Collins, CO
In-reply-to: rcormac@abc.cs.oberlin.edu's message of 7 Dec 92 21:18:31 GMT

>>>>> On 7 Dec 92 21:18:31 GMT, rcormac@abc.cs.oberlin.edu (Cormac (Xbattle -rcormac) Russell) said:

Cormac> fheitkamp@desire.wright.edu sez:
>	Gee, I didn't know drug users were as thoughtful as you to read
>	warning labels.  That's the problem with you liberals, you just
>	can't understand why people don't use your superior logic and
>	think exactly like you.

Cormac> If you don't read the labels that is your own fault. Food is labeled,
Cormac> if you ignore the label, eat the doritos, and get fat, it is your own
Cormac> fault. Not the governments for not 'protecting' you from yourself.

Yes, and your planet's destruction order for the intergalactic highway
has been available, on file, in the basement of the Alpha Centauri hall
of records for two decades now. Bloody Apathetic Planet.

Clearly there has to be some balance.

Ob. "Get a Life" Comment: Get A Life! I don't want to hear about social
issues! I want to do something important with my life: Flame other
people on the net who were too stupid to not to buy an Amiga!!  Please
move the politics BS to alt.politics.  Followups are redirected there.
--
/**************************************************************************/
/* Kent Dalton                   * EMail: Kent.Dalton@FtCollinsCO.NCR.COM */
/* NCR Microelectronics          * Phone: (303) 223-5100 X-319            */  
/* 2001 Danfield Ct. MS470A      *   FAX: (303) 226-9556                  */
/* Fort Collins, Colorado 80525  *                                        */
/**************************************************************************/
This MUST be a good party -- My RIB CAGE is being painfully
 pressed up against someone's MARTINI!!
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: papresco@cantor.math.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Prescod)
Subject: Re: Comdex/Quicktime released for the PC
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 21:29:48 GMT

>So what you're saying is, it's Apple and Microsoft trying to establish
>a new (and rather clumsy, from what I've seen of it) "standard" by divine
>fiat, not because of any particular advantage of said "standard."

No, because there is an advantage in HAVING a standard.  C is by no
means the best programming language, but because it exists, porting
becomes easier.  English is not the best human language, but because it
exists, me speaking to you is easier.  There will be quicktime 2 and
quicktime 3 and quicktime 4.  And they will be better (which is not to
say the current implementation is bad, I haven't seen it).  But at
least *SOMEBODY* is setting a standard.  Just like .iff.  .iff is, I am
sure, not better then every proprietary standard at every task.  It's
going to be larger then compressed standards and slower then speed
optimized standards.  But because there was a standard, things are
simpler for Amiga users, then they were in the "bad old days of DOS." 

>
>I'm sorry, but that's nothing new.

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett)
Subject: Re: Help me not to change computers!
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 04:41:56 GMT

In article <1992Dec14.184846.1256146@sue.cc.uregina.ca> courtn@hercules.cs.uregina.ca (todd courtnage) writes:
>On top of that, Interplay has set up it's first UK office, and will be
>producing/publishing it's own games (ie not thru EA, like in US/Canada).
>What this means is, we'll be seeing Star Trek: The 25th Anniversary game,
>Castles II: Seige and Conquest and Buzz Aldrin's Race into Space for the
>Amiga.  They have a sneak preview of Star Trek in the issue, it's been in 
>development since last July (although they weren't saying anything about it
>till they announced the UK office), and if the pictures are of the Amiga
>version is looks GREAT!  They're even adding improvments to the Amiga 
>version that weren't in the IBM version.

   The original IBM version suffered enormously from the fact that it came on
20 or so disks.  If the Amiga version is a direct port of the IBM version, it
will also be disappointing.  What would be much nicer would be a port to Amiga
CD-ROM of the new IBM CD-ROM version of the ST Anniversary Game.  But this
will not happen because there are so few people with Amigas and CD-ROM drives.

   I really wish Commodore would get their butts in gear with Amiga CD-ROM
support.  I mean, how tough can it be to purchase CD-ROM drives and resell
them?


---
| Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
--------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy