From: iad@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Ivan A Derzhanski)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Just how much smarter are atheists?
Date: 15 Dec 92 20:48:46 GMT
Organization: Centre for Cognitive Science, Edinburgh, UK

In article <910773f.30.724186770@ace.acadiau.ca> 910773f@ace.acadiau.ca (HEATHER LEE FYFFE) writes:
>>>Just how stupid must one be to believe in a God? [...]
>
>Sorry if this sounds like I'm bragging, but it is all true...
>
>All my life, I have been the smartest one in my classes.  My grades have 
>always been high 90's, A+'s, whatever.  [...]

Whatever, indeed.  Well, congratulations.  Though I hope you realise
that this information is of extremely low value.  Your preformance in
your courses is not necessarily a fair reflexion of your intelligence;
neither are your musical skills or your popularity with your friends,
and -- where can I read your play?

>Many of my nest friends are intellectual Christians too.  We have some 
>incredible philosophical discussions about religion!  We don't sit around 
>just bashing those who don't believe the same things we do, either.

What kind of things do you discuss?

>So EVERYBODY goes through life trying to convince 
>everybody else that they're wrong.  Christians by evangelizing, atheists by 
>arguing with Christians, even apathetics who say `whatever works'.

Except that not everybody puts the same amount of effort into trying
to convince everybody else that they are wrong.  I don't even normally
tell people that I'm an atheist unless I'm asked about it.  Neither do
I go to proselytise on talk.religion.christian.

>But if you don't believe in your truth strongly enough to consider it
>the big-T Truth, then why do you believe in it at all?  

Why not?  What is wrong as adopting the most plausible account of something
unless a better one comes along?

>Like I said, I'm not dimwitted, nor am I superstitious.

Oh?  I thought you said you were a Christian.

>Everyone, whether they will admit it or not, knows that they have a soul.

Bzzt.  I have no such thing.  Oh, I reckon I just won't admit it.
One more thing along these lines, and I'll send you off to the FAQL.

>Noone can possibly believe that `I', what makes me `me', my 
>thoughts, my feelings, my personality, is merely a product of atoms jumping 
>around in the brain.

Well, then you've just met someone who maintains just that.  Make that
"No one except Ivan Derzhanski can possibly ...".  (Except that atoms
don't "jump around".  Did you really get A+s in everything you studied?
Have you taken any natural science?)

>How else can you explain the intense happiness and joy that new Christians 
>experience?

In the same way as the similar effects caused by alcohol and drugs.
They make you feel jolly good, too.

>Any attempt at serious discussion is countered with sarcasm and 
>vicious attacks.

What attempt at serious discussion?  I haven't seen one in ages.

>Sure, there are some Christians who attack too.  I must 
>wonder what their motivations are, and how they can possibly think they're 
>doing any good, and if they've considered whether Jesus would approve of 
>their actions...

Then ask them.  And do it here, on this forum.  I mean it.
I dare you to write a few followups to, say, H Platypus' recent
articles.  Even if only to say that you agree with him in everything.

>But to the atheist who merely flames, I must ask why?  Are 
>you afraid of actual discussion?

Afraid, no.  But unwilling to try to start an actual discussion with
someone who is not intellectually equipped for it, as is typically the
case with proselytisers.

>Are you so insecure in your own beliefs that you must brush off any
>contradictory statements without even considering them?

I have considered them, and found them worthless.  But many other
atheists have gone beyond merely considering them; they have embraced
them in the past, and rejected them after spending a part of their
lives as Christians.

>That seems to me almost as bad as those types of `fundie' 
>Christians that you guys are always complaining about...

If that's how it seems to _you_, then so be it.

>Responses, compaints, comments welcome, but 
>please, be mature enough not to flame.

Please refrain from talking about maturity.  Thank you.

-- 
 `D'ye mind tellin me whit the two o ye are gaun oan aboot?' (The Glasgow
Ivan A Derzhanski  (iad@cogsci.ed.ac.uk; iad@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu)    Gospel)
* Centre for Cognitive Science,  2 Buccleuch Place,  Edinburgh EH8 9LW,  UK
* Cowan House, Pollock Halls, 18 Holyrood Park Road, Edinburgh EH16 5BD, UK
Newsgroups: alt.atheism