From: viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: no subject (file transmission)
Date: 19 Nov 92 15:08:50 GMT
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA

u4944@techops.cray.com (Charles Hubbert) writes:

#I have recently purchased, legally, a DA revolver.  According to the
#State of Michigan Basic Pistol Safety Pamphlet which I was given AFTER
#I took the mandatory 15 question test prior to being issued my License to
#Purchase a pistol, A License to Carry Concealed Pistols is generally required
#for transporting a pistol, loaded or unloaded, in  motor vehicle."

	Note that the Code of <state> may be written such that a pistol
cannot legally be transported in a pickup, on a motorcycle, or even a Fiero
due to the lack of a real trunk.  This applies even if the thing is in a
safe -- the wording is usually "not within arms reach."  My entire truck
cab is within arms reach, hence the problem.

#	1. en route to or from a hunting or target shooting area, provided
#	you are in possession of a valid Michigan hunting license or
#	membership in a organization that has target shooting range facilities.

	My land is 180 miles away; in any event, it is unlikely you will be
allowed to continue should the cops stop you with your gun and no permit.
They'll let the courts decide, and you're without your gun for a few months.

#	2. transporting from the place of purchase, to your home, or place
#	of business, or place of repair.

	Truck drivers *always* purchase something at a truck stop to get a
time-stamped reciept.  They do this because the DOT requires the logs
they keep to have proof of what they were doing.  If you're reciept is for
a steak dinner, it means you weren't driving.  Your defense here is to keep
those reciepts with the gun, and call before driving to the store or
whatever so others can verify your story.

	I sent my Haskall .45 in for warantee work (slide lock was a bit
difficult to engage), and went to Drug Town's UPS/Post Office station to
mail it.  The clerk was quite nice; I showed her the gun, worked the
slide to show it was unloaded, and displayed the magazine to prove there
were no cartridges.  She nodded, filled out the forms, and UPS shipped
the thing without hassle.  It was only afterwords that I thought I'd just
committed a Federal crime should their branch office be considered an
official branch of the US Postal service.  <shudder>  And here I was
just proving that I'd complied with postal and UPS regulations and was
shipping an inert and quite safe firearm!

#I have my Application to Carry Concealed Pistols and I am trying to 
#determine the most effective wording for the Reason for Desiring License.

	That depends upon your state and who handles it.  In my case, I
tried several different responses on the Sheriff deputies, and even the
most rational, logical reason was met with a clear, "He's not going to
give it to you."  You might try something like, "To avoid technically
breaking the law while responsibly transporting a handgun" or something
of that order, but don't expect great success.  The people in the
sheriff's office might be able to help you here.

#I have been unsuccessful in getting further clarification from the 
#authorities.  Between you and me, I want to be able to take my pistol
#for informal target shooting, and I want to be able to take my pistol
#hunting and wear a coat over my holster (the hunting regs in MI
#say I need the Carry Concealed License to wear a pistol under my coat).

	You are unlikely to get much help from them -- their job is to
enforce the law, not help you to obey it.  The CC while hunting is
something your local DNR might have a problem with too.  As I read
Iowa law, you could carry your pistol under your coat if you have
another weapon showing, but this hardly helps you if the Sheriff or
other law-enforcement type wants to be onery.

#I am convinced that the authorities are creating a market for street
#guns sales, but I am really trying to be on the up and up.  Any
#hints or helps would be appreciated, especially MI licensees.

	I agree with you -- my only hope is due to the sheriff being
voted out of office, and a more responsive member voted in (he's a
Democrat too, so don't write them all off based solely on party).  I
mentioned that the law is written such that I could violate it while
doing nothing wrong, and the deputy just shrugged.  Feh!  One group
in Michigan to write to is, besides your local NRA rep, the Ted's
World Bowhunters Association.  They have a fair amount of pull in
Michigan, and are active in things other than just bowhunting.  With
luck, they'll point you towards others fighting this same thing.
Besides, Ted Nugent is a way cool person and quite outspoken on gun
and hunting-related issues, which gives him some clout as he's popular.
A local gun club is another good place for contacts.  And always, your
state and federal senators and representatives are good to contact.

	Above all, read the relevant law.  Only then can you make a
good argument with respects to carrying your guns.  Comments from
other states?

	Irony?  The State Motto of Iowa is, "Our liberties we prize
and our Rights we will maintain."  Yet I can't get a CCW because the
ex-sheriff doesn't want to give me the permit no matter what reason.
You're right, it is enough to make one consider breaking the law.

< Dan Sorenson, DoD #1066 z1dan@exnet.iastate.edu viking@iastate.edu >
<  ISU only censors what I read, not what I say.  Don't blame them.  >
<  "This isn't an answer, it's a pagan dance around a midnight fire  >
<   written in intellectual runes." -- Rich Young                    >