HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: goth@ere.gort.edu
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Hi!
Date: 27 Sep 92 20:23:34 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Allegheny College

In article <1992Sep26.213031.16959@ultb.isc.rit.edu>  
kdc5072@ultb.isc.rit.edu (K.D. Colagio) writes:
> I was wondering if anyone would like to recommend someone in the  
Rochester,
> New York area who can answer some questions and maybe direct me to  
someone
> who can train me in a given (and as of yet, unknown) direction.
> 
> If you want any information about me, feel free to drop me a line and  
let me
> know...
> 
> Thanks in advance...
> 
>      =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
>      -  Kevin Colagio...student at large -   In Gods we trust,      =
>      =               aka                 -   All others pay cash.   -
>      -      KDC5072@ultb.isc.rit.edu     -        -Vladimir Taltos  =
>      =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> 
>           Warning: Government is hazardous to your health.
>      Save me from those who would pass laws to protect me from myself.
> 
>   "The right to take drugs, the right to an abortion, the right to  
suicide, 
>   the right for people to engage in private, consensual sexual activity,  
be 
>   it commercial  or not, these are all interconnected.  The loss of any  
one 
>  of these rights diminishes the strength of the others, giving the  
govenment 
>  more control over the bodies of those it governs -- control it should  
never 
>  have."

My e-mail is on the fritz so I have to post. If you aren't worried about  
taking a few very dangerous (though enlightening) chances, contact a Mike  
MacMillan. His phone number is 416-3816. I worked with him for a couple of  
years and learned more than I ever thought possible. He is also a Satanic  
High Priest, in case you are/aren't into that sort of thing. Don't let his  
appearence fool you, he has MUCH power and should not be disturbed unless  
you are serious about magick. I hope you learn as much as I did. 

-Edward Gothowski
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: eda858xsft@vx24.cc.monash.edu.au
Subject: OZ
Organization: Computer Centre, Monash University, Australia
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 05:47:13 GMT

Anyone know of any groups in Victoria - Australia.

I am also interested in the dreamtime.

Paul Ortenburg
eda858xsft@vx24.cc.monash.edu.au
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: wirta@convex1.tcs.tulane.edu (john wirta)
Subject: Re: Re: Necronomicon
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-13594]: convex1.tcs.tulane.edu
Organization: Tulane University, New Orleans, LA
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 22:54:47 GMT

In article <83950144@otter.hpl.hp.com> cal@otter.hpl.hp.com (Colin Low) writes:
>Robert Mathiesen writes:
>
>>The newly arrived should be informed, of course, that almost every sentence
>>in the Necronomicon FAQ (posted by Colin Low) is false ....
>
>Which suggests that some sentences are true. A typical ex-Jesuit trick to
>confuse the unwary. The truth is in the true sentences - ignore the false;
>these are strange times and we need strange methods to confound the servants
>of the Papist anti-christ.
>
>Colin

AH yes that last anti-christ bit leads me to put mounds of faith into that
FAQ.  You inspire me Colin, the necronomicon is one book that should just
stay dead.  Putting out a FAQ that suggests it's continued existance is
just the kind of thing to start up a flurry of questions in an attempt to
find a copy. (BTW Colin : will you know the anti-christ if he decides to
put in an appearance??)

		-Enki
(Anyone who knows, knows where my name came from and what it means :))

--
From: amanda@INTERCON.COM (Amanda Walker)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Flaming
Date: 28 Sep 92 10:17:57 GMT

joshua@cpac.washington.edu (Joshua Geller) writes:
> interestingly, if you look at amanda's and my posts when we reply to the
> same person (which happens with some frequency), hers are often much more
> critical than mine. it's just that she's so nice and courteous (and the
> person the posts directed at often so dense) that it just doesn't pen-
> etrate as criticism. pity.

Chuckle.  Yes and no.  I'll grant that to a large degree it's a style 
difference more than a content difference. That being said, there is one 
significant result of that style difference, which results in my being 
perceived as much more "sympathetic" (as Leo put it).

The difference is the object of criticism (or at least the object as 
perceived by the person being criticised).  You tend to criticise the person, 
but briefly.  I tend to criticise the idea or the posting, more extensively.  
So, faced with "what a stupid git" and "I think you're off track and here are 
five reasons why," most people have tender enough egos to prefer #2, even if 
in "objective" terms it's much more critical than #1.  I do something 
analogous in face to face discussion as well, which leads people to think I'm 
much "nicer" than other people, even though I'm arguing just as fiercely (and 
if I'm the authority in the situation, being just as stubborn).

In the end, I'm probably no more sympathetic than you or anyone else; I find 
Usenet to be 99% crud, and a stunning tribute to human idiocy.  It's just 
that I find being insulting to be more trouble than being polite.  Other 
people find it the other way around.  That's life.  As an interesting 
corollary, I generally don't find getting offended to be worth the trouble 
either, unless I'm being presented with a case of active malice, in which 
case I'm generally more angry than offended anyway.


Amanda Walker
From: jasonp@cunix4.Prime.COM (Jason R. Pascucci)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: EVIL
Keywords: EVIL
Date: 30 Sep 92 17:25:59 GMT
Organization: Prime Computer, Inc.

In article <BvE75t.A1J@acsu.buffalo.edu>, oispeggy@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Peggy Brown) writes:
> In article <1992Sep29.234330@tiger1.prime.com>, jasonp@tiger1.prime.com (Jason Pascucci) writes...
> >In article <1992Sep30.021509.15056@linus.mitre.org>, tucker@maestro.mitre.org (William Tucker) writes:
> >> 
> >> Hi -
> >> 
> >>    To deny evil on humanity's plane of conciousness is as unrealistic as to
> >-- 
> >Jason R. Pascucci
> >jasonp@primerd.prime.com
> > 
> 
> You're so clever, Jason, that I think you missed the point.
> 
> - Peggy -

No, I don't think so, but I think you missed my point. I didn't
wish to dispute the article which is adequate, given it's worldview, 
which, at the points I mentioned, is very different from mine, and
the all the problems stem from a fundamental disagreement. 
If I wanted to touch on all the points, I could make a number 
of arguments against what she is saying (like her claim that 
'no difference' is 'unrealistic' or that something 'is true in a 
sense....'.) But, it really all stems from the my initial 
contention. 

-- 
Jason R. Pascucci
jasonp@primerd.prime.com
Xref: sparky alt.magick:4968 alt.atheism:18239
From: wolfe@wolves.uucp (G. Wolfe Woodbury)
Subject: Re: EVIL and "dualism"
Organization: Red Wolfe @ The Wolves Den
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 05:16:43 GMT
X-Md4-Signature: 68951e7b7356a6985932eef6f15a4a09

In <mcnair.7.717946323@slab.unt.edu> mcnair@slab.unt.edu (SEAN MCNAIR) writes:
>
>       Order(god)---------------------------------------------Chaos
>
>As one traverses towards order, one becomes more god like, as one traverses 
>towards Chaos, one becomes less ordered, less being, if you will. (Taoists 
>see this as a circle, rather than a straight line. The Tao symbol correctly 
>equates absolute chaos with absolute order, thus resolving the true duality 
>as you were mistakenly taking about in terms of good and evil.)

	First point:  absolute order = absolute chaos

>    Sin, or evil, is the belief that one should become more godlike, or even 
>displace god (or gods, as you would have it.) This is Satan's mistake. (See 
>Paradise Lost for a good understanding of where Satan fits on the continuum.)

	First error:	Satan == opposite of God

But assuming this error (for sake of argument), therefore

	Satan = God!

Or, to show the reduction:

	God = Unity = 1

	Satan = chaos = 0

	0 = 1 ?!?!

The problem is resolved by noting that Satan is not the opposite of God.

However, we still have the paradox of 0 = 1 if the Taoist identity is
correct.  

You may draw your own conclusions.

				Wolfe.

This rant of whimsy brought to you by WQLZ, dial-an-ethnic-joke, at:
	1 800 555 WQLZ                       (Think carefully before dialing!)
-- 
G. Wolfe Woodbury @ The Wolves Den UNIX, Durham NC         [use the maps!]
UUCP: ...duke!wolves!wolfe                            <Standard disclaimers>
Domain: wolfe@wolves.durham.nc.us   wolfe%wolves@cs.duke.edu
    Above all, we celebrate.   Celebrate the Circle Statement of Purpose
Newsgroups: alt.magick,alt.pagan,alt.religion.all-worlds
From: joshua@cpac.washington.edu (Joshua Geller)
Subject: Re: Seeking Creator of "Practice Random Kindness"
Organization: Institute for the Study of Ancient Science
	<12979@ecs.soton.ac.uk> <BvI0o3.KII@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 05:47:05 GMT


In article <BvI0o3.KII@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> smithmc@mentor.cc.purdue.edu 
(Lost Boy) writes:

>   In article <12979@ecs.soton.ac.uk> etj90 <etj90@ecs.soton.ac.uk> writes:
>   >In <joshua.717745937@coombs> joshua@coombs.anu.edu.au (Joshua Geller) 
>   >writes:
>   >>      "PRACTICE RANDOM VIOLENCE AND SENSELESS ACTS OF STUPIDITY"

>   >A beautiful posting.

>	   Maybe you  guys should read more philosophy and concentrate
>   on "magick" less. 

perhaps, child, you ought to break into your piggy bank and run out
and purchase a sense of humor. until then, go away.

josh
From: eddie@hermes.oit.unc.edu (Edward M. Averett)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Cat.Magick, a Sekhmet Production
Date: 3 Oct 92 00:01:42 GMT
Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill

In article <67018@cup.portal.com> Tagi@cup.portal.com (Tagi Mordred Nagashiva) writes:
>BAST Theatre presents
>
>Cat.Magick
>
>Featuring your favorite virtual personalities.
>======================================================================

I just about laughed my fool head off.  Wow. .

			-eddie@legba.oit.unc.edu
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: nancy@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Nancy Lebovitz)
Subject: Re: Christians doing magic <was: Re: questions>
Organization: UDel, School of Life & Health Sciences
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 20:04:07 GMT

In article <1992Sep25.172742.27737@u.washington.edu> rjb@milton.u.washington.edu (LeGrand Cinq-Mars) writes:
>Amanda Walker:
>
>>True enough.  And in fact, I tend not to pay a lot of attention to the will
>>at a conscious level--I don't find the ego to be a very effective tool for
>>magick, although this may be a simple result of the frameworks I work in.
>
>Me:
>
>Yes; talking about (doing) magic is like doing literary criticism.  It's
>not easy to be sure whether and in what ways experience results from
>prior theory, from personal predilection, or from ... something else.
>
>Oddly enough, "will" is one of those things I find it hard to discover
>in myself.  Will, that is, in the sense of the blazing, engorged,
>pulsing, pumped up, throbbing, etc, etc.  I have never had much luck
>trying to hold onto something with an iron grip, clenched teeth,
>pulsing temples, and transcendent rigidity.  I find it easier to just
>let go of everything else.  Some thirty years ago it seemed, briefly,
>plausible to me that "will" was a matter of holding one's breath and
>wishing real hard, or the equivalent.  

I like the idea that the purpose of the will is not to enable you
to do things, but to refrain from the physical/mental habits that
make it hard to do them. (I got the phrasing from Joanna Field in
either _An Experiment in Leisure_ or _a Life of One's Own_---both
are books worth reading.)

                             ----Nancy Lebovitz
                                 calligraphic button catalogue available
                                          by email   (170K)
                                 nancy@genie.slhs.udel.edu
From: friday@netcom.com (Carol Anne Ogdin)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: CONCERNED
Keywords: CAT FIGHTING
Date: 5 Oct 92 01:06:09 GMT
Distribution: MAGICK
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

You'd probably have a more receptive audience if you
STOPPED SHOUTING!
-- 
--Friday                               "You have three option in this life:
   Carol Anne Ogdin, Principal Designer            Get sick,
   Deep Woods Technology                           Go crazy, or
     friday@netcom.com                             Ask for what you want!"
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe)
Subject: Re: Necessary Belief?
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 16:57:31 GMT

arthurc@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu (Arthur Chandler) writes:

>A question from a novice:
> Does magic work if you don't believe in it?  Or, more precisely, can one
>perform magic if he/she is sceptical about magic?

These are not the same questions, since scepticism is not the same as 
disbelief.  Scepticism is an unwillingness to *either* believe or disbelieve
without experience/evidence.  There is a saying that "sceptics make the best
magicians".  This is because sceptics actually pay attention to the results 
of their actions.

One does not have to believe in magic to practice it, though one is very
unlikely to have success if one actively disbelieves.  I think the key thing
is to be openminded and to be willing to try and see what happens for you.


              Merry meet, merry part, merry meet again,
                               Br'anArthur

Queer, Peculiar, and Wyrd! :-)

******************************************************************************
Newage is hypoallergenic spirituality--
it's for people who are allergic to the word religion.
                                   --Jon Jay Obermark
From: oispeggy@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Peggy Brown)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: alt.magick support group
Date: 5 Oct 92 13:12:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Oct4.183805.2198@samba.oit.unc.edu>, shava@hermes.oit.unc.edu (Shava Nerad Averett) writes...
>In article <66833@cup.portal.com> Tagi@cup.portal.com (Tagi Mordred Nagashiva) writes:
>>Peggy (the correct) writes [my comments in brackets]:
>>
>>This has nothing to do with magick.  [Are you sure?]
> 

[stuff comparing support groups and magick groups deleted]

> 
>What *doesn't* have something to do with magick? 
>-- 
>Shava Nerad Averett				shava_averett@unc.edu

Depends on one's worldview and definitions, of course.  I'd find 
it much nicer to share affirmations, but it would be false for me, 
and a waste of my time, since I don't experience magick that way.

I do not see everything as magick or related to magick.
I acknowledge the "connectedness" of everything, and I believe 
that having a magick (or other qualifying) worldview makes one 
more open to things of the "spirit," but does not 
***automatically*** connect one continually to a different reality.

Maybe with development of will, or impeccability, or 
unbending intent, or whatever you choose to call it, a continual 
and spontaneous connection with magick develops.  I believe this 
is possible, with years of effort.  I am skeptical that most 
people who claim a connection of this sort are experiencing 
wishful thinking at least some of the time, or are talking about 
something different than what I am describing.

I also see magick as rooted in perception and experienced as 
changes in awareness.  If I was in a heightened state of 
awareness at all times, or could reach such a state at will, 
then I might say everything is magick.  Unfortunately, 
***significant*** changes in awareness for me are 
few and far between.

- Peggy -
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: jdh@math.psu.edu (Jeremy D Hall)
Subject: Re: aura goggles
Organization: Penn State Department of Mathematics
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 21:42:10 GMT

In article <JOSHUA.92Oct2013524@bailey.cpac.washington.edu> joshua@cpac.washington.edu (Joshua Geller) writes:
>
>In article <8y8qbq75@csv.warwick.ac.uk> maupt@warwick.ac.uk (Maupt the 
>Ninja...) writes:
>
>>   how effective are aura goggles? can anyone use them without developing any
>>   form of sight to detect auras?
>
>are these anything like x-ray spex?
>
>what the fuck are you talking about?
>
>josh

Actually, friends don't let friends auragoggle    :^)

Sorry, I couldn't help it.

Jeremy Hall
PSU Dept. o' Math
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Still Lost...
From: wce@hogbbs.scol.pa.us (Bill Eichman)
Date: Sat, 03 Oct 92 01:50:52 EDT
Organization: The Heart of Gold BBS, Lemont PA

dunsmore7043@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:

>         What I was hoping for was help to find teacher in the Arts, the
> paranormal and the supernatural. I thought I'd try and get guidence rather th
> jump into it on my own.
> 
>          Sorry to bother anyone with this....crap. 
>                                         JD still Lost
> 


You shouldn't concern yourself too much with being flamed. 

However, magickal training is at it's easiest a hundred times harder than 
dealing with a few rough words on a screen from total strangers. 

There is no easy way out. There are very few good teachers, and the good 
teachers can only work with people who've doon all the basic reading and 
exercises on their own, already. There are few sanctuaries, and all 
sanctuaries have a heavy price, personally, if not always financially.

Find likeminded friends in your community. Study together and try to keep 
each other awake and moving despite the pressures of ordinary life. Study 
as though your soul depended on it.

If you do those things, you have exactly the same chance as the rest of 
us to acheive wisdom. Do the best you can. That's all.

Later, Bill
Newsgroups: alt.magick,alt.pagan,alt.religion.all-worlds
From: eddie@hermes.oit.unc.edu (Edward M. Averett)
Subject: Re: Seeking Creator of "Practice Random Kindness"
Keywords: random kindness, guerrilla goodness, deep thoughts, Marin
Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 16:52:31 GMT

In article <BvCCGB.3J0@acsu.buffalo.edu> oispeggy@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Peggy Brown) writes:
>This has nothing to do with magick.
>
>>>   "PRACTICE RANDOM KINDNESS AND SENSELESS ACTS OF BEAUTY"

Um. .gee.  I think it's pretty clear that the original posting had enough
validity to be posted here.  And it's only natural that people are going to
want to post replies.  I do admit that I'm never wild about multiple newsgroups
posted to a single message, and that I'd rather see multiple messages posted
to different newsgroups, with maybe the summary telling where it was all 
posted to.  This ensures that people commenting from alt.pagan don't end up
alt.magick, and vice-versa, like these comments and my reply do. 

Therefore, I'd ask that folks delete non-relevant newsgroups when returning 
comments, so we aren't trying to carry on an 8-way conversation on the phone
when 4 of the people can only hear half of the conversation.  

We now return you to your regularly scheduled broadcasting. 

From: cal@otter.hpl.hp.com (Colin Low)
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1992 20:14:26 GMT
Subject: Re: Re: inner circle (and responsibility)
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Bristol, UK.
Newsgroups: alt.magick

Tagi writes:

>I will not cooperate with this.  Appointment and representation are the
>beginning of personal disempowerment.  This is an open coven with no
>hierarchy.  I oppose all unnecessary hierarchy.  

In that case I think we must insist on your resignation from the position
of Secret Chief of the Order. The argument that being a Secret Chief is
part of the *necessary* hierarchy might have stood up, but of course your
position is no longer a secret.

Resign I say!

Colin.
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: shaman@cix.compulink.co.uk (Leo Smith)
Subject: Re: Flaming.
Reply-To: shaman@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 09:32:58 +0000


To put the record straight:

I have been real busy recently and I jumped into the middle of a
thread to say that in general I thought flaming was something one
just gets used to on the 'net: You can't avoid it so learn to deal
with it.


I certainly did _not_ mean that I supported any particular ad hominem
that presumably started the thread. josh is particularly
controversial and harsh: That is his prerogative. Likewise Amanda is
perhaps the most sympathetic of the regular posters here.

Both attitudes IMHO are useful. Josh gets rid of casual idiots, and
Amanda is able to encourage the less-than-courageous.

I don't want to lose either style. Alt.magick would be a poorer
place if it did (and where is Tim Maroney these days :-()


Ok Friday?

PS. If you didn't know already: I seriously want to understand and
re-experience some of the totally weird experiences I have had. Thats
why I am here. Not to peddle dogma (although it probably looks like
it sometimes)


Xref: sparky alt.magick:5038 alt.pagan:10461 alt.satanism:2216
From: joshua@cpac.washington.edu (Joshua Geller)
Subject: Re: 2nd Merlin Tarot Workshop
Organization: Institute for theStudy of Ancient Science
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 22:31:03 GMT


In article <1992Sep30.171847.5383@gdr.bath.ac.uk> mascdb@gdr.bath.ac.uk (C D 
Burdorf) writes:

>   I went to the 2nd Tarot Workshop with RJ Stewart at his house
>   in Bath.  It was nice.  I caught a real buzz.  Stewart didn't
>   answer any of the questions that you sent me.  

why am I not surprised?

>						  He also limited
>   the range of questions that he was willing to answer this time.

why am I not surprised?

>   Could it be that he doesn't have good answers for some of your 
>   questions?

can you think of another reason? did he give another reason?

>   I sat next to some woman that had been at an equinox ritual
>   the previous midnight at a longburrow in Bristol.  Can 
>   anyone out there explain?

I'd guess this means she was to an equinox ritual at a prehistoric
astronomical structure in bristol.

josh
From: friday@netcom.com (Carol Anne Ogdin)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Flaming.
Date: 27 Sep 92 22:46:43 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

In <JOSHUA.92Sep26150101@dharma.cpac.washington.edu> joshua@cpac.washington.edu (Joshua Geller) writes:


>In article <memo.649628@cix.compulink.co.uk> shaman@cix.compulink.co.uk (Leo 
>Smith) writes:

>>   I certainly did _not_ mean that I supported any particular ad hominem
>>   that presumably started the thread. josh is particularly
>>   controversial and harsh: That is his prerogative. Likewise Amanda is
>>   perhaps the most sympathetic of the regular posters here.

>interestingly, if you look at amanda's and my posts when we reply to the
>same person (which happens with some frequency), hers are often much more
>critical than mine. it's just that she's so nice and courteous (and the
>person the posts directed at often so dense) that it just doesn't pen-
>etrate as criticism. pity.

>josh

Mayhaps, there's a lesson for you in there, Josh.

--Friday
-- 
    - Friday -                      "Practice random acts of kindness 
      friday@netcom.com                         and senseless beauty."
      (aka Carol Anne Ogdin@Santa Clara, CA)
-- 
    - Friday -                      "Practice random acts of kindness 
      friday@netcom.com                         and senseless beauty."
      (aka Carol Anne Ogdin@Santa Clara, CA)
Newsgroups: alt.magick