HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hubey@pilot.njin.net (Hubey)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Stereotypes of Soviet Peoples
Date: 2 Jan 93 07:28:51 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

In article <1993Jan2.050752.15649@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu> mkagalen@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu (michael kagalenko) writes:

> I can understand them - how can they live as a part of non-existent 
> state like USSR ;-) BTW, this is an example of imperialistic mentalitet
> (not to mention  mind-reading ;) - the statement above have sence only 
> in case peaceful coexistance is possible only between parts of one 
> country.


Please elaborate. Does this mean that peaceful coexistence is
impossible among countries and only possible within one
country ? 

What is an example of 'imperialistic mentalitat' ?

What statement makes 'sence' in what context?

Please elaborate for my edification. Answers to the net please.
-- 

	mark	

   hubey@amiga.montclair.edu         hubey@apollo.montclair.edu
   hubey@pilot.njin.net               ...!rutgers!pilot!hubey    
Xref: sparky talk.politics.soviet:10084 soc.culture.soviet:11697
From: thietaniemi@cc.helsinki.fi
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Schizophrenia of RUSSIA (Was: ESTONIAN news)
Date: 30 Dec 92 13:36:32 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki

In article <sorokin.33@ps1.iaee.tuwien.ac.at>, sorokin@ps1.iaee.tuwien.ac.at 
(Zhenja) writes:
> In article <1992Dec29.125805.1@cc.helsinki.fi> thietaniemi@cc.helsinki.fi 
writes:
> 
>>Some Estonian news from Tallinn & Tartu:
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
>>                      14.12.92 - 20.12.92
>>                         
>>            CSCE PRIME MINISTERS MEET IN STOCKHOLM
> 
> [stuff deleted]
> 
>>During the conference Russian Foreign Minister Andrei Kozyrev
>>shocked delegates with a speech that seemed to mark a new cold
>>war and a return to Soviet-style foreign policy. Estonia reacted
>>to this quickly, stating that the wheels of history cannot be
>>turned back, that a new Soviet Union or Russian empire will not
>>be reborn and that Estonia cannot be steered off the road leading
>>to democracy and the market economy.
> 
> And that's all information about the incident??!!??

About sources: this incident was reported in every Finnish newspaper:
Kozyrev started his speech in Stockholm with Soviet-style threats and later 
remarked that this might be the style of his possible successor.
Apparently, he tried to schock the European audience to grasp the
severe political situation inside Russia. He succeeded, according
to my opinion.

But, Kozyrev symbolizes the schizophrenia of Russia: when did a representant
of a great (not any more super-) power make such a "practical joke"
to the audience? The leaders of Russia speak "with two tongues",
sometimes they represent the democratic Russia, sometimes they make
severe concessions to reactionary forces. This makes the situation in
Eastern Europe very unpredictable and fragile

thinks
the observer
Tapani Hietaniemi, Universitas Helsingiensis
                   urbs fennorum
From: thietaniemi@cc.helsinki.fi
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Metal smuggling and trade
Date: 3 Jan 93 18:10:11 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki

In article <1993Jan2.175525.17213@enea.se>, sommar@enea.se (Erland Sommarskog) writes:
> Tapani Hietaniemi (thietaniemi@cc.helsinki.fi) writes:
           ^^^
>>I suppose you have never heard about the richest lady in Estonia, namely
>>Tiiu Silves, who has made a fortune by selling non-ferrous metals.
>>No she is developing her activities and creating a kind of business
>>dynasty. She might be considered one of the most succesfull new capitalists
>>in Estonia - and she has not been caught involved with anything illegal.
> 
> As a curiousity it could be mentioned that she started her business
> career after the death of her husband by making and selling waffles.
> Her waffles were a big success because she used cream instead of
> water in the batter.
> 
> She might not have been caught doing anything illegal, but it is
> difficult to imagine that she has not had contacts with the criminal
> world, voluntary or involuntary. For some reason she has bodyguards...


There is a huge difference between voluntary and involuntary contacts
with criminality...

Estonia, as the whole imperium, is still a part of the third world.
I find it very understantable that one of the most succesfull capitalists
in a third world country has bodyguards (though I have not read about
them) as the tycoons have even in the first world.

with best regards
Tapani Hietaniemi, Universitas Helsingiensis
                   urbs fennorum
From: dharkins@papillon.ucsd.edu (Dan Harkins)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Sorry
Date: 21 Dec 92 19:05:43 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego
NNTP-Posting-Host: papillon.ucsd.edu

I apologize to all who were offended by a quote I used in my last post.
It was tasteless and unnecessary.

Again, sorry.

Except you Mutlu. You suck.

Dan Harkins
From: BADERTINOVS%NEWS@adminb.rferl.org
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Soviet military training
Date: 2 Jan 93 11:04:57 GMT
Reply-To: "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" <TPS-L@indycms.bitnet>

michael kagalenko:

>I spent some time (namely, 2 years) in the Sov.Army & can assure
>everyone that the cited statement is not just stereotype.

I also spent 2 years in the Sov. Army & can assure everyone that
the cited statement is nothing but stereotype. I've known many
Chechens both in the Army and "na grazhdanke". Surely, some of
them were "ruthless", just like there were many ruthless Russians,
Ukranians, Armenians, etc. But I wouldn't brand ALL OF THEM "ruth-
less". There were many nice guys among them. Chechens are a proud
nation with a strong intellectual capacity. It might be that there
are fewer educated people among them. But the reason for that has
nothing to do with their intellectual abilities. As you all probably
know, because of the russification policy many representatives of
national minorities in the former USSR couldn't get their education
in their native tongues (especially on the university level).
Imagine a young talanted Chechen teenager coming to Groznyi and not
being able to continue his study in an institute or a university,
because all teaching is in Russian. Even if he is lucky and is
admitted to a university, his Russian will not be good enough for
succesfully continuing his studies. Whole generations of national
minorities were deprived of education in their native languages.
And now, when those minorities want to secede from "the prison of
nations", they are told that they are not intellectual enough to
create their own independent states. This sounds a bit disingenuous
to me.

Sabirjan.
From: muh@physics1 (Yury M. Mukharsky)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: U.S. reserve officers support program to a
Date: 23 Dec 1992 21:34:23 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: physics1.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Dec23.143001.10809@synapse.bms.com> henry@bms.com writes:
>Don't we have enough discontent in the inner cities where people need training & skills?

Sure, there are enough discontent, but there are no nuclear warheads there.

>Why the world community can not use the millitary expertise of hi tech, well trained troups of CIS in Yugoslavia to stop the bloodshed?
>Where were they 2 years ago when The US, France & GB were risking lives of their personal in the UN declared war on Iraq?

How long ago have you emigrated? Be happy, they are not on the opposite side.
Do you think it takes 5-hour reorientaion class to switch "potentsial'nogo
protivnika" and "potentsial'nogo sojuznika"?

Yury M.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
From: mkagalen@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu (michael kagalenko)
Subject: Re: Stereotypes of Soviet Peoples
Organization: Northeastern University, Boston, MA. 02115, USA
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 23:09:18 GMT

In article <Jan.2.02.28.51.1993.7751@pilot.njin.net> hubey@pilot.njin.net (Hubey) writes:
>In article <1993Jan2.050752.15649@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu> mkagalen@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu (michael kagalenko) writes:
>
>> I can understand them - how can they live as a part of non-existent 
>> state like USSR ;-) BTW, this is an example of imperialistic mentalitet
>> (not to mention  mind-reading ;) - the statement above have sence only 
>> in case peaceful coexistance is possible only between parts of one 
>> country.
>
>
>Please elaborate. Does this mean that peaceful coexistence is
>impossible among countries and only possible within one
>country ? 
>
>What is an example of 'imperialistic mentalitat' ?
>
>What statement makes 'sence' in what context?
>
>Please elaborate for my edification. Answers to the net please.
>-- 
>
>	mark	
>
>   hubey@amiga.montclair.edu         hubey@apollo.montclair.edu
>   hubey@pilot.njin.net               ...!rutgers!pilot!hubey    

Ok, I'll speak slowly & use short words ;-) Previous poster wrote that 
peaceful coexistence with Chechens is unlikely because they're muslims. 
You argued that Georgians & Armenians don't want to be part of the USSR
despite their belonging to Ortodoxical church. You assumed, therfore,
that their reluctance to be part of the same country as Russia means
that "peaceful coexictance" is unlikely in that case as well. This can
be true only in case "peaseful coexictanse" is possible only between 
parts of the same country. And this assumption is typical for imperialistic
mentality. Hope that helps (however, I'm a bit pessimistic; you doesn't 
seem to be able to comprehend written text ;->)
From: dharkins@papillon.ucsd.edu (Dan Harkins)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Answer the question
Date: 29 Dec 1992 17:57:41 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: papillon.ucsd.edu

In article <9212282251@zuma.UUCP> Hasan B. Mutlu (h.mutlu@att.att.com)
writes:

> In article <1h06uaINNfj8@network.ucsd.edu> dharkins@papillon.ucsd.edu (Dan
Harkins) writes:

>> Ouch! Battle of the cliches, o.k., but "...more this clown."????
>> Just what is that supposed to mean?

> Let us examine it - shall we?

> [ trite massacre story deleted ]

Come on Hasan, answer the question. What does, "out of the frying pan
and into the spilt milk is more this clown." mean?

Inquiring minds want to know.
From: dharkins@papillon.ucsd.edu (Dan Harkins)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Justice For Turkish Genocide --- ooof
Date: 21 Dec 1992 18:45:53 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: papillon.ucsd.edu

In article <9212182105@zump.uucp> sera@zuma.uucp (Serdar Argic -- who is really
Hasan Mutlu, han@att.att.com or h.mutlu@att.att.com or (708) 979-6684)
writes:

> stop reading news on this net and return to the San Diego zoo where
> you were born.

Ouch. That hurt Hasan. Speaking of zoos, is there any truth to the rumor
that you were the inspiration for the jailkeeper with the taste for men
in the film Midnight Express? I'm reminded of that famous quote from the
movie: "If the Turks don't like to eat pork, how come all their women are 
pigs."

The Justice for Victims of Mutlu Terror is long overdue! Don't you forget it.

Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
From: thietaniemi@cc.helsinki.fi
Subject: Russian border guard violence in ESTONIA
Organization: University of Helsinki
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 11:17:06 GMT


I still want to comment this piece of news :

----------------------------------------------------------------
       TWO RUSSIAN BORDER GUARDS VIOLATE ESTONIAN BORDER

On December 17, two Russian border guards illegally crossed into
Estonia at the Kulje border post. According to the Director of
the Estonian Border Guard Department Andrus $$vel <Oeoevel?>, the Russian
soldiers were drunk, behaved in a provocative manner and
threatened others with their firearms, resulting in a situation
that could have lead to an armed conflict. The two soldiers were
detained and handed over to Russian Border Guard authorities.
------------------------------------------------------------------

There is very - actually surprisingly - little ethnic or "political"
violence in Estonia. Last time, if I remember correctly, a similar border 
violation happened in August in Narva - by drunken Russian soldiers. 
But this is not everyday life, fortunately.

Can you imagine what might happen if the Estonian border guards 
behaved in a similar manner?

asks
the observer
Tapani Hietaniemi, Universitas Helsingiensis
                   urbs fennorum
From: hubey@pilot.njin.net (Hubey)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Stereotypes of Soviet Peoples
Date: 2 Jan 93 03:52:24 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

In article <Sorokin.36.725923408@ps1.iaee.tuwien.ac.at> Sorokin@ps1.iaee.tuwien.ac.at (Sorokin Zhenya) writes:

> And do not forget, Chechens are muslims, so the prospectives of "peaceful 
> coexistence" are very, very dark.
> Sorokin Zhenya


Would you please elaborate on this. The Balts are not Muslims and
they apparently did not want to live a life of "peaceful coexistence"
as a part of the USSR. Neither did the Armenians and Georgians.
-- 

	mark	

   hubey@amiga.montclair.edu         hubey@apollo.montclair.edu
   hubey@pilot.njin.net               ...!rutgers!pilot!hubey    
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
From: mkagalen@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu (michael kagalenko)
Subject: Re: Soviet military training
Organization: Northeastern University, Boston, MA. 02115, USA
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 22:56:26 GMT

In article <Jan.2.21.49.15.1993.15645@pilot.njin.net> hubey@pilot.njin.net (Hubey) writes:

>           (a lot of questoins)	
>Answer these and I might have a few more.

Yes, surely you can. Gee, that's funny. So far, you haven't answered
single my question-and still expect me to answer yours. 







>
>BTW, in the civilized western world of democracy, arriving at
>truth via terrorizing minorities by sheer force of numbers is
>frowned upon.
Once again ignorance. Who terrorize minorities by sheer numbers ? Rhetorical
question : have you read criminal cronicles in any major Rusian
newspapers ?
 
> You might be mistaking USENET and the USA for
>some hicksville Ukrainian sovok village where you grew up. This
Again sever case of mind-reading ;->     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
(Can't recall when I posted my resume on the UseNet)

>mentality exists in many places where the majority tyrannizes
>the minority into accepting its version of truth and history
>usually via mindless repetition of rumors, legends, myths and
>prejudices. If you want accolades for your mind-numbing posts
>your should have brought your hick friends with you. I'm
>sure they would have given you applause that you seem to
>crave.
>
>I'll give you a little hint from America. If you get into a
>street fight, you'll keep getting whacked as long as you keep
>standing up and trying to fight back a losing battle. Any one
>who has enough sense, admits defeat when beaten. Even dogs
>and wolves don't attack one when the defeated tucks its
>tail between its legs :-)..

>
>People who realize they've written stupid things usually
>have enough sense to keep quiet. As long as they keep
>thinking they're still living in some hick village
>where they can count on voices of support of racism and
>prejudice, they'll keep getting whacked.
>
>If you don't have to courage to apologize, at least have
>enough intelligence to keep quiet.
>--  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Well, why not start from yourself ? BTW, why you're appealing to the
readers in every posting ? You haven't enough self-confidence & need 
support of your tribe ?
From: VIZNYUK@MPS.OHIO-STATE.EDU (SERGEI VIZNYUK)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Chechens
Date: 3 Jan 93 00:29:00 GMT
Reply-To: "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" <TPS-L@indycms.bitnet>

X-News: ohstpy soc.culture.soviet:13813
From: viznyuk@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu
Subject:Re: Russian Speakers in Estonia
Date: 2 Jan 93 19:02:44 EST
Message-ID:<15302.2b45e6d4@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu>
Organization: Midwest Rat's Hole

In article <Jan.1.23.09.57.1993.4358@pilot.njin.net>, hubey@pilot.njin.net
 (Hubey) writes:
> In article <Sorokin.37.725931368@ps1.iaee.tuwien.ac.at>
 Sorokin@ps1.iaee.tuwien.ac.at (Sorokin Zhenya) writes:
>
> Does this apply to Chechens and Tatars too or only to white
> Europeans and not to 'asiatics' ?

  To chechens it applies as to nobody else !
The humanity would gain considerably
if Chechnya becomes _totally_ independent, and if finally
those idiots in Russian goverment realise that it's much
cheaper to build a 100-feet high brick wall around Chechnya
with 10,000-volts electric current running on the top,
as a neccessary attribute of Russia-[independent]Chechnya border,
than to feed those chechens and fight crime they bring
to Russia, as would be the case if Chechnya stays in Russia.

>
>> respect to law, etc. (I like it!). Mentality of rusians, urkranians, etc.
>> are much more asiatic in almost all respects (unfortunately). The only
>> solution is assimilation. Fortunately, russians normally easily
>
> I guess 'asiatic' does not include Chinese, Japanese, Koreans
> etc. So far no one I know has ever said anything about their
> attitude of non-obeyance of laws. The Confucian ethic stands
  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> very clearly on the side of law.

Come on !  Japan, Korea, Taiwan are ruled by mafia-in-law.
The Russians are caught in the middle: unlike Germans they
have strong mafia, but unlike Japanese they cannot legalize
it and coexist peacefully. Therefore all their problems...

>    hubey@amiga.montclair.edu         hubey@apollo.montclair.edu
>    hubey@pilot.njin.net               ...!rutgers!pilot!hubey

Serega
From: dbd@urartu.sdpa.org (David Davidian)
Subject: Re: Origins of Basque
Keywords: questions
Organization: S.D.P.A. Center for Regional Studies
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 15:02:39 GMT

In article <CMM.0.90.2.725824860.alderson@last-call.cisco.com> alderson@LAST-
CALL.CISCO.COM (Rich Alderson) wrote:

[RA] I am a linguist, specifically a specialist in Indo-European historical and
[RA] comparative linguistics.  I have, as part of my training, studied the 
[RA] relation- ships among several other language families, including Uralic
[RA] and the proposed Ural-Altaic.

[RA] Basque is unrelated to any known language.  (The technical term is 
[RA] "language isolate.")  This does not mean that it never had relatives, 
[RA] simply that none of them survived to the present day.  Attempts have been 
[RA] made over the years to connect Basque to Etruscan, the Caucasian 
[RA] languages, and a number of other families, but never on systematic, 
[RA] theoretically valid grounds.

If so...I stand corrected. However, what I read (although I admit was at least
ten years ago) made a good argument regarding the Caucasusian origins of
Basque. What was even more interesting was how, geo-physically, Basque could 
have been a Caucasian language. 

Mr. Alderson, can you give a good reference disputing the Basque-Caucasian
connection? I don't dispute your statement, I simply want to update mine.

Will the origin of the Basque language end up in limbo as has the orgins of 
the Indo-European family, or is the issue of a family of languages different
from a specific family element? Further, in your opinion, how does
international politics fit into the study of linguistics and etymology? Surely,
radical interpretations of history would arrise if we were to study peoples
based on the compositions and structures of their spoken languages.
 

-- 
David Davidian <dbd@urartu.sdpa.org> |"The massacres? Oh well! They merely  
S.D.P.A. Center for Regional Studies | amuse me!"  -Talaat Pasha, architect of 
P.O. Box 382761                      | Turkish the genocide of Armenian people. 
Cambridge, MA 02238                  | (Four Years Beneath the Crescent, p 208)
From: BADERTINOVS%NEWS@adminb.rferl.org
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: One year of YELTSINOMICS!
Date: 2 Jan 93 17:15:04 GMT
Reply-To: "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" <TPS-L@indycms.bitnet>

Some thought on Yeltsinomics:

I think that instead of tampering with the financial system while
basically preserving the centralised, state-controlled economy,
Yegor Gaidar should have started with privatisation. Of course, it's
a difficult task. But he could have started with privatising small
factories and small unprofitable farms.

That would ensure the smooth transition to the market economy.
In Kadar's Hungary, private producers (who made up no more than
2% of all the workforce) accounted for 2O-4O percent of all
agricultural output. In other words, even if a tiny part of the
economy is privatised, the benefit from that is tremendous.
At the initial stage, you don't even need the appropriate financial
system. In Kadar's Hungary such a financial system didn't exist.
In modern China it is the same.

In short, Gaidar overestimated the importance of Western financial
help and yielded to the demands of the IMF. The tragic economic
situation in Russia is basically the result of his mistake, not
the result of the general transition to the market economy.

The former autonomous republic of Tatarstan is an excellent
example of how the reform should be implemented without too
much pain. President Shaimiev started a policy of "smooth
transition to the market economy" a couple of years ago. Now
the prices in Tatarstan are the lowest in the former USSR.
At the same time, it privatised bigger part of the economy
per capita than did Russia. Now Kazan (the capital of Tatar-
stan) is inundated by people from many regions of Russia who
are eager to learn the Tatar experience.

Unfortunately, the Civic Union and the conservatives in Russia
don't want a smooth transition to the market economy. They just
want to slow down the reform altogether. So, on the one hand there
is a president incapable of conducting the reform in the right way,
on the other, there is an opposition unwilling to conduct any
reform whatsoever.

Sabirjan.
From: c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Arxid stats for the last two weeks (regular post)
Date: 23 Dec 1992 08:22:56 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

This week's stats show our feathered friend in the #11 spot, with
170 articles posted, 871 KB of volume, and accounting for less than
0.1 percent of traffic.

  11   170     871.4  0.1%   sera@zuma.UUCP  (Serdar Argic)
                              14% soc.culture.europe
                              14% soc.culture.greek
                              14% talk.politics.mideast
                              13% soc.culture.turkish
                              13% soc.history
                              10% talk.politics.soviet
                              5% soc.culture.soviet

Surprisingly, he has stopped posting in his home group of soc.culture.turkish.
Any explanation/theory will be appreciated. I am anxious... Also, today's
pick had 29 Arxidies (articles) in one shot.  

Spiros
--
              ___        _____________________________
             |  o\__    | Ne mutlu anti-Argic diyene? | Beef: Real Food 
}}            \  __/ ___| Ne mutlu anti-Mutlu diyene! |       for Real People
}}}    ____   / /    \          (Old Turkish Proverb) |
}}}}__/}}}}\_/ /      \_______________________________| Feathers: Real Clothes
}}/  }}}}}}    \                                               for real Chicken
  \   }}}}   }}/                                              
   \__ }}____}/        Spiros Triantafyllopoulos        
      \ /              c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com    
       |/_                                               
       '\               
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet