HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Organization: CUNY/UCC VM Systems
Date: Wednesday, 16 Dec 1992 15:20:25 EST
From: Robert Chambers <RMCCU@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Thomas and Friends

Yay, another Thomas fan...

I don't have any kids, but I have the video collection except for a
couple of tapes now.. They are so much better than the PBS show with
the kids and that pinhead schemer...  When I was a Nipper I was given
a couple of the small books for Christmas, I still have them.. they
referr to "Sir Topham Hat" as "The Fat Controller"  I always liked
that better, but it's not Politically correct I guess.  I found a
couple of $3.00 Jigsaw puzzles for Thomas and friends yesterday while
shopping for gifts.. They were rated for ages 4-7 or so... and only
took me a little while to do (:-)

According to the back of the books I have (which are now 20+ years old)
there are other things you can get from them, like a map of the Isle of
Sodor where all the trains live.  Meccano used to sell a little clockwork
Percy train (the little green one) and a couple of cars.. I used to have it
but don't anymore.

Cool stuff that..


Robert
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: billg@bony1.bony.com (Bill Gripp)
Subject: Re: NYS&W B40-8's
Organization: LA&W RR
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 18:21:40 GMT

In article <1992Dec14.220209.6973@gw.wmich.edu> 737ochs@gw.wmich.edu writes:
>In article <1992Dec11.175754.5726@ulysses.att.com>, smb@research.att.com (Steven Bellovin) writes:
>> How many B40-8's does the NYS&W have?  I had read that they purchased
>> ~24 of them, and I've seen pictures of a few.  But the latest edition
>> of the Kalmbach Diesel Roster book didn't list any.
>
>Well, they had 20, numbered 4000-4019. But they don't have them anymore.
>If you look in the Roster book, look under CSX, that's who has them now.
>They are numbered 5930-5949 and most (if not all) have been repainted

NYS&W locos with MU are/were even numbers only, so 4019 wasn't one of
them.  I beleive they kept 4000-4008 (even) and the rest went to CSX.
These would have been 4010-4048(?).
From: bob@1776.COM (Robert Coe)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: "Railpax"
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 14:28:24 EST
Distribution: na
Organization: 1776 Enterprises, Sudbury MA

zephyr@cory.Berkeley.EDU (COIFMAN) writes:
>  The other thing that caught my attention was the introduction of Rail
> Pax's new name, Amtrak. A consulting firm decided that Rail Pax was just
> not catchy enough and simply concatinated America and Track in such a
> way that would be recoginizable and catchy.

Whatever the stated mnemonic value of the original name "Railpax" (it was
normally written as one word, wasn't it?), the framers of the name clearly 
had in mind the fact that the system was supposed to end the railroads' con-
stant squabbling with the regulatory agencies over their desire to drop pas-
senger service - "pax" being the Latin word for "peace"!   :^)

   ___            _                                           -  Bob
   /__) _   /    / ) _   _
(_/__) (_)_(_)  (___(_)_(/_______________________________________ bob@1776.COM
Robert K. Coe ** 14 Churchill St, Sudbury, Massachusetts 01776 ** 508-443-3265
From: bob@1776.COM (Robert Coe)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Unusual tunnels?
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 92 09:12:06 EST
Distribution: world
Organization: 1776 Enterprises, Sudbury MA

jmb@ukc.ac.uk (J.M.Bremner) writes:
> Spirals on roads are not unheard of.  In Switzerland, according to my
> 1970-ish road map, a new road was under construction leading south from
> Lenk to the Rhone valley.  It looks as if this was to include an open-air
> spiral.  And, at its north end, the Tyne Tunnel in Britain makes a turn
> of more than 180 degrees. 

If you include open-air spirals and spirals on roads, you increase the sample
size quite a bit: for example, almost every interstate highway intersection
contains at least one.  A slightly less degenerate case is the New Jersey ap-
proach to the Lincoln Tunnel, which contains a 270-degree turn.

   ___            _                                           -  Bob
   /__) _   /    / ) _   _
(_/__) (_)_(_)  (___(_)_(/_______________________________________ bob@1776.COM
Robert K. Coe ** 14 Churchill St, Sudbury, Massachusetts 01776 ** 508-443-3265
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: cal@ee.ryerson.ca (Calvin Henry-Cotnam)
Subject: Re: Switch Heaters?
Organization: Ryerson Polytechnical Institute, Toronto
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 23:09:31 GMT

Steve_Hooper@mindlink.bc.ca (Steve Hooper) writes:
> [question about switch point motion deleted]
>
>They do not SNAP over...rather, it takes about 5-7 seconds for the points to
>unlock, move over, then lock again.  Also, it is not a huge amount of force
>being used.  But it IS enough force to crush a foot.  And no, there is no
>sensor to stop the movement.
>
>It happens often that the switch does not move over all the way and the
>dispatcher does not get a "lock" indication on his panel and is unable to set
>the signals.  Thus he calls the train and gives them an authority (in Canada
>it is a Rule 564) on paper.  It reads something like "May pass Signal XXX and
>proceed Eastward.  Dual Control Switches must/shall not be placed in hand
>position and lined for the route to be used." ....

I'm not trying to be a nit-pick, but Rule 564(d) refers to the operation of
Dual Control Switches via Rule 104.2

The reason why I mention this, is because I have a question regarding
the wording of rule 104.2 that I suspect you could answer for me.

Specifically, Rule 104.2(c):

When a train or engine is required to move over a dual control switch
under a Stop indication, unless relieved of the responsibility by the
RTC or signalman, movement must not be made until;

(i) the selector lever is placed in "hand" position;
(ii) the hand throw lever is operated until the switch points move in
     both directions with the movement of the hand throw lever; and
(iii) the switch is lined by hand for the route to be used.

The selector lever must be restored to "power" position and locked, but
not before the movement has occupied the switch points.

My question is, is sub-clause (ii) saying that you have to fully test
the switch points by throwing them to the desired route then returning them
to the normal route, after which sub-clause (iii) allows you to line
the switch for movement?

Thanks in advance.


Calvin Henry-Cotnam, CATE          | "...My brain IBM"
Ryerson Polytechnical Institute    | "So if you see me, acting stangely..."
Toronto, Ontario, Canada           |                  STYX, Mr. Roboto
Xref: sparky rec.railroad:10077 alt.radio.scanner:3363
From: tvervaek@col.hp.com (Tom Vervaeke)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad,alt.radio.scanner
Subject: Re: Amtrak police frequency?
Date: 20 Dec 1992 06:10:59 GMT
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division
NNTP-Posting-Host: itchub21.cs.itc.hp.com

Not positive, but most railroad use 161.205 as a police mutual aid. This
might help. 




( ___ )------------------------------------------------------------( ___ )
 | / | Tom Vervaeke           Email:tom_vervaeke@hp0800.desk.hp.com | \ |
 | / | Technology Specialist  Snail: 1900 Garden of the Gods Rd.    | \ |
 | / | Hewlett Packard Co.           Colorado Springs, CO 80901     | \ |
 | / | Colorado Springs, CO   Voice    : 719-590-2133               | \ |
 | / | USA                    Fax      : 719-590-2117               | \ |
 | / |--------------------------------------------------------------| \ |
 | / | Quote of the week...                                         | \ |
 |___|           Quote deleted do to lack of creativity !!!         |___|
(_____)------------------------------------------------------------(_____)
   ^                                                                  ^
From: aj_strad@csd.uwe.ac.uk (AJ Stradling)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Swith (Point) Heaters
Date: 18 Dec 92 11:13:23 GMT
Organization: University of the West of England, Bristol
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

In the UK heater units were, until recently, gas fired burners.
However, after a serious ****-up with a fractured gas main and
bottles running out causing a major delay to a big inter-regional
between stations a few years back...It ran out of fuel while waiting
overnight to be dug out after having to stop 'cos the FPL's wouldn't
come on and the electric train heat died with the unit....very cold....
a new means of heating the switch rails was devised using electricity
	This is more reliable as power can be maintained by several
means and does not freeze inside a bottle or run out/get cut off at
an inopportune moment....Much less dramatic tho.
	Basically a heating element is applied to the side and foot
of the swtich rail and to the side of the stock rail. This is of
sufficient length and power to maintain the moving parts of the
turnout above 0 degrees Celcius, preventing the formation of ice
between the rails. The heater on the stock rail is, I think, more
powerful as this must ensure that snow falling between the stock
rail and the open switch rail is melted, and not packed behind the 
switch rail when it is thrown.

	I.J. 'Tiger' Stradling.
		University of WOE.
From: medberry@teal.csn.org (Michael G. Medberry)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Railroad Signals
Date: 20 Dec 92 03:38:01 GMT
Organization: M G Medberry

In article <18590@mindlink.bc.ca> Steve_Hooper@mindlink.bc.ca (Steve Hooper) writes:
>> Tom Vervaeke writes:
>>
>>     * When the signal is not lit at all, there are no trains in the
>>       block.
>>
>>     * When the signal is on there is a train somewhere in the block but
>>       I can't tell which direction.
>
>
>Correct, for the most part.  There are exceptions, but for the most part,
>that's correct
>
>>
>>     * Green means proceed, red means stop, yellow means slow or caution.
>
>
>Again, lots of variations.  Usually, in CTC, Green is "Clear" (Go like
>hell!), Yellow is "Approach" (Approach the next signal prepared to stop), and
>Red is "Stop" (whoa horsey!).
>
>Sometimes the Red can be a "Restricting"...depends on the railroad and rule
>book they are using.  This means "Proceed, preparing to stop within one-half
>the range of vision being on the lookout for broken rail, switches lined
>incorectly etc and in no case exceeding 15 mph".  This allows for trains to
>get bunched up, rather than have them waiting at each signal.  A train, under
>this signal indication, can in fact crawl right up to within a few feet of
>the guy ahead, since reverse movements on ANY mainline (without proper
>authority) is forbidden.
>
>--
The line in question is the Joint Line between Denver and Pueblo which
carries Santa Fe, BN (with Fe engineers), and D&RGW (read SP) traffic.
Santa Fe CTC (use to be La Junta, but could be Belen?) controls the
track between Fountain (Widefield) and Palmer Lake.  In the mid part
of the centurary Rio Grande and Santa Fe granted each other the necessary
rignts and realigned their tracks slightly so that the eastern track is
northbound traffic and the western track is southbound traffic.  Which
is why in Colorado Springs the Santa Fe station was called thef northbound
station and the Rio Grande station was call the southbound station.  
I understand it was a pain moving between the two stations for the unknowing,
though both stations had agents for Santa Fe, Rio Grande, Rock Island, and
C&S (BN).

Around 1935 the C&S line that ran east through Elizabeth and Elbert washed
out and C&S abondoned the line, moving traffic to the Joint Line.  Also,
Denver & Fort Worth (UP) was involved early on, but not recently.

To the question at hand, Red apparently restricts traffic, but not forces
a stop.  Southbound coal trains have to stop at Palmer Lake to drop pusher
engines (which return north).  Several times I have seen trains stack up
crawling up to the end of the next train while traffic clears Palmer Lake.
Palmer Lake is supposedly the third highest point on the Santa Fe (proabably
doesn't rate on Rio Grande).

Hopefully this is not too much trivia, and hopefully most of it's right.
Much of it is hearsay, so don't shoot the piano player.  For scanners
I understand the Joint Line uses Santa Fe's Colorado Springs freq, though
I don't have details.
 
Palmer Lake is great place to watch trains, it seems there are run throughs
from many railroads.
From: mangoe@cs.umd.edu (Charley Wingate)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Unusual tunnels?
Date: 15 Dec 92 11:25:04 GMT
Distribution: na

An unusual tunnel of a different sort:

At Harpers Ferry, the B&O crosses from Maryland to W.Va. immediately after
coming out of a tunnel (H.F. being the point where the Shenandoah is more or
less forced into the Potomac as the latter breaks through a gap in the
mountains).  The original bridge (whose piers are still there) aimed at the
rail line heading down the west bank of the Shenandoah, and took a sharp
turn at both ends of the bridge in order to head west/east on the mainline.
(The arsenal of John Brown fame was in the way at the time.)  Two bridges
later, each built at a sharper angle upstream, the curves were largely
straightened out.  The last bridge, however, simply didn't allow a wye on
the WV side to hook up to the Shenandoah line, whereas each of the preceding
birdges did-- in the case of the first bridge, it was well out over the
river.  Therefore, they kept the old bridges.  To do this, the tunnel (you
were wondering when I'd get to the tunnel, weren't you?) was turned into
sort of a bell shape, and the juntion between the branch and the mainline is
inside the tunnel.
-- 
C. Wingate        + "The peace of God, it is no peace,
                  +    but strife closed in the sod.
mangoe@cs.umd.edu +  Yet, brothers, pray for but one thing:
tove!mangoe       +    the marv'lous peace of God."
From: ggg9y@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Garth G. Groff)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: San Jose/Santa Cruz 6,200 ft tunnel
Date: 14 Dec 92 13:20:18 GMT
Organization: University of Virginia

Doubtful the plate went into orbit, though it is a
poetic scene.  More likely it was completely vaporized.

~S
--
Garth (Haridas) Groff
"Not yet famous author"
ggg9y@poe.acc.virginia.EDU         Chant "Govinda Bohlo Hare"
From: tvervaek@col.hp.com (Tom Vervaeke)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: AAR Radio List (fwd)
Date: 20 Dec 1992 06:06:50 GMT
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division
NNTP-Posting-Host: itchub21.cs.itc.hp.com

I will not post the entire list, but here is how to make your own:

The first channel is 07 with frequency 160.215. To get channel 08,
simply add .015 to the first frequency, ie 08 = 160.230.
The last channel is 99 mat frequency 161.610. I beleive channels 01-06
are used in places like Canada, but not in the US.

Listed below is a little blurb I have about the AAR Frequency Assignment
Plan:

"Class One Railroads are changing their radios over to multiple channel
systems.  Depending upon the radio,  you may hear either a channel or a
display number given to correspond to a particular frequency.  Some
roads use a Channel Number, such as "36", which would represent 160.650
Mhz. Other roads use a four digit display radio.  The first two digits
represent the transmit frequency,  the second are the receive frequency.
For example, "4242" is 160.740 Mhz.  A repeater pair display "7056"
would represent a transmit frequency of 161.160 Mhz and a receive
frequency of 160.950 Mhz. (The frequencies on the repeater are
reversed.)" 

Hope this helps.




( ___ )------------------------------------------------------------( ___ )
 | / | Tom Vervaeke           Email:tom_vervaeke@hp0800.desk.hp.com | \ |
 | / | Technology Specialist  Snail: 1900 Garden of the Gods Rd.    | \ |
 | / | Hewlett Packard Co.           Colorado Springs, CO 80901     | \ |
 | / | Colorado Springs, CO   Voice    : 719-590-2133               | \ |
 | / | USA                    Fax      : 719-590-2117               | \ |
 | / |--------------------------------------------------------------| \ |
 | / | Quote of the week...                                         | \ |
 |___|           Quote deleted do to lack of creativity !!!         |___|
(_____)------------------------------------------------------------(_____)
   ^                                                                  ^

Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: Rich.Rubel@launchpad.unc.edu (Rich Rubel)
Subject: Re: New York <-> Washington DC: air shuttle was better
Keywords: AMTRAK, North-East Corridor, air travel
Organization: University of North Carolina Extended Bulletin Board Service
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 12:22:37 GMT


A large number of Amtrak stations I have visited either have small rental
car lots attached (Orlando, Fl. comes to mind), within easy walking
distance (San Francisco, Ca), or will send someone to pick you up (most of
the others, including small towns like San Luis Obispo, Ca).  Some rental
places (Enterprise, Alamo) will always send a car to get you, no matter
the distance.  There isn't enough volume on Amtrak to justify a score of
rental agents at every hick station in Podunk, Ia.  When a town sees 1
train a day, and maybe two people get off, I really don't think Hertz
would jump at the chance... :-)
What's needed are some sort of fully-automated rental systems- put your
credit card in the slot of a small locker, and out comes a key to the car
of your choice.  When you return, open the locker the same way and your
bill is printed.  Only concern- making sure someone actually returns the
key... although whoever had the last card number would be the obvious culprit.
[RICHR]
--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Xref: sparky rec.railroad:9805 alt.fan.warlord:9473
From: yhshowie@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Howard Wharton)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: New York and the Nor'easter
Date: 15 Dec 92 17:45:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

Joe,
    Any news on how the New Haven line of Metro-North fared?
From: haynes@cats.ucsc.edu (Jim Haynes)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: New York <-> Washington DC: air shuttle was better
Date: 14 Dec 1992 21:53:32 GMT
Organization: University of California; Santa Cruz
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: hobbes.ucsc.edu
Keywords: AMTRAK, North-East Corridor, air travel


In article <Bz9FrL.8LK@cmcl2.nyu.edu> mckenney@gauss.cims.nyu.edu (Alan M. McKenney) writes:
>    A second problem is that little attempt has been made to
>provide direct public transportation to AMTRAK stations.  A lot
I don't know much about AMTRAK - but the last time I was in Grass
Valley, CA (which is about 25 miles from Auburn, which I guess is
where AMTRAK stops) I saw a bus that appeared to be operated by AMTRAK,
or as a connector to AMTRAK.  Is this something peculiar to Calif.?
Or is it something new AMTRAK is starting?  or is it something AMTRAK
has been doing for years?  Seems like I also saw something in the paper
the other day about AMTRAK buses.

-- 
haynes@cats.ucsc.edu
haynes@cats.bitnet

"Ya can argue all ya wanna, but it's dif'rent than it was!"
"No it aint!  But ya gotta know the territory!"
        Meredith Willson: "The Music Man"

Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: rorem@bert.eecs.uic.edu (Doug Rorem)
Subject: Re: Talking Detectors
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 03:39:11 GMT

hintzman@hpljah.hpl.hp.com (Jeff Hintzman) writes:
>|> 
>|> >I have several questions regarding railroad track detectors. My local
>|> >timetable mentions three kinds: talking, non-talking, and talk on  

>Much useful stuff deleted.

Interesting thread... But I have a basic question. Where does one get a
timetable for the road in question?  Do RR companies just hand them out?
Thanks.

Doug Rorem
rorem@bert.eecs.uic.edu
From: bob@1776.COM (Robert Coe)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: The value (if any) of B units
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 14:06:33 EST
Distribution: world
Organization: 1776 Enterprises, Sudbury MA

bill@hpcndaw.CND.HP.COM (Bill Kepner) writes:
> It seems every couple years somebody looking at reducing costs revists the
> B unit concept.  Apparently costs of maintaining the controls and crew re-
> lated equipment is not trivial.  Sometimes RR's think they can manage this 
> special equipment effectively, such as Santa Fe's Super Fleet GP-60B's.  
> But I wonder what will happen in 10 years when the normal GP-60's are being 
> used in local service on branch lines (if they have any left) and the B 
> units become orphan because you usually don't need ABBA lashups of 12000 HP 
> on non-mainline trains.

How about if a RR ordered some A units with a shell cab (no gauges, no con-
trol equipment, no seats, etc.) for MU operation only?  These ersatz B units 
would be cheaper and have a higher power-to-weight ratio than normal A units.
If later on the RR wanted them to live out their declining years as A units, 
they could buy the necessary equipment from the factory or (better yet) can-
nibalize damaged A units or ones with blown or worn-out engines.

   ___            _                                           -  Bob
   /__) _   /    / ) _   _
(_/__) (_)_(_)  (___(_)_(/_______________________________________ bob@1776.COM
Robert K. Coe ** 14 Churchill St, Sudbury, Massachusetts 01776 ** 508-443-3265
From: bill@hpcndaw.CND.HP.COM (Bill Kepner)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 20:11:46 GMT
Subject: Re: Tunnel Motors
Organization: HP Network and System Management Division
Newsgroups: rec.railroad

/ hpcndaw:rec.railroad / grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins) / 10:29 pm  Dec 14, 1992 /
In article <6092@sumax.seattleu.edu> daveike@sumax.seattleu.edu (Eickerman) writes:
> 
>> Some people mentioned the Tunnel Motors that DRG&W and SP bought.  What
>> amazes me is that they have cabs.  The theory is that they were designed
>> to be used in the back of a consist of locos, thus they wouldn't need a
>> cab.  I have also seen pictures of SD40T-2s leading the pack of 'normal'
>> locomotives through tunnel country.  It would seem logical to save money
>> and not put the cab on or the controls, and just make it a B unit.

I don't think tunnel motors on the point in the mountains is as much of a waste
as tunnel motors running across Kansas ! 

>I suspsect the railroads have learned that the cost savings of "B units"
>are generally outweighed by the loss of flexibility over the lifetime of
>the units...

It seems every couple years somebody looking at reducing costs revists the
B unit concept.  Apparently costs of maintaining the controls and crew related
equipment is not trivial.  Sometimes RR's think they can manage this special
equipment effectively, such as Santa Fe's Super Fleet GP-60B's.  But I wonder
what will happen in 10 years when the normal GP-60's are being used in local
service on branch lines (if they have any left) and the B units become orphans
because you usually don't need ABBA lashups of 12000 HP on non-mainline trains.

With the trend towards higher horsepower locomotives, and hence less units
needed per train, it would seem there is going to be less opportunity to use
"B units" efficiently.  When they needed 6-8 1500HP units on a heavy train,
it probably made sense to have some percentage of cabless units.  Now that
we're seeing loaded coal trains hauled by 2 4000hp units, it wouldn't be smart
to buy alot of "B units".  What happens if you have a grade crossing accident
and damage the lead unit ?  I guess you have to rob a unit from a nearby train.

Bill Kepner