From: ss1@kepler.unh.edu (The Rink)
Subject: Re: TANGENT:  Interpretation
Organization: Turkey Hall
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 01:47:17 GMT

>Some of the rules of textual criticism include:

While they are important to keep in mind, I couldn't care less.  The rules
of textual criticism aren't MY scripture at all.

>A further problem with your argument is that of the Catholic church.
>They include "extra" books, and have done so for hundreds of years,
>including the time prior to the reformation.  By your methods of 
>examination, the fact that this has existed over such a period of
>time should prove its authenticity and validity.

Not *my* methods....

>Now, I will comment on your variant readings.
>
>: DIFFERENCE:  Mark 1:2-3
>: 
>: KJV says:  "As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my
>: messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before
>: thee.  The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the
>: way of the Lord, make his paths straight."
>: 
>: NIV says:  "It is written in Isaiah the prophet:  I will send my
>: messenger ahead of you, who will prepare your way.  A voice of
>: one calling in the desert, 'Prepare the way for the Lord, make
>: straight paths for him.'"
>
>If this is your strongest case, your are in trouble.  The _GREAT_
>majority of texts in the Greek state that Isaiah is the prophet,
>which he is, for the first quote.  The emendation to "prophets"
>instead of Isaiah is clearly a later editor making the passage
>more "correct" so that it includes both quotes.  Metzger gives the
>Isaiah reading an "A", which means that they are VERY sure that this
>represents the original reading.

Ouch!!!!  The Isaiah quote was the *SECOND* line.  The Malachi quote was
the *FIRST*.  I think you are the one in trouble here....

>: DIFFERENCE:  Luke 2:22,24
>: 
>: KJV says: (verse 22)  "And when the days of her purification
>: according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought
>: him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord."
>: 
>: NIV says: (verse 22)  "When the time of their purification
>: according to the Law of Moses had been completed, Joseph and
>: Mary took him to Jerusalem to present him to the Lord."
>
>Two of what are considered source documents use "her" the rest use
>"their".  The strongest indication is that "their" was used in the
>original documents.  "Her" is easily explained as a correction to
>the text for the reasons you have noted.  The question is, should
>the translation use "their", which has the weight of evidence, or
>"her", which is more correct based on Leviticus.  This is a tough
>call.  I'm not sure.  In either case I would footnote it.

"Their" was *not* used in the original documents.  You don't even *know*
what the original documents say, because they don't exist.  A previous
poster mentioned how 1 John 5:7 was in an early third century document, but
how that they were not in later manuscripts (dating a thousand years later),
and that these manuscripts were both earlier and "more reliable" than the
manuscripts from which the King James was translated.  I'll wager the "their"
was something errantly changed along the way, but corrected before the KJ
was translated -- as 1 John 5:7 was.  I don't know this, but I'll wager it.

>As for the implication that "their" means that Jesus needed an
>offering for sin.  I disagree.  His parents seem to have gone through
>all the rituals, which probably included visits to Jerusalem to 
>sacrifice at the temple for the family.  This in no way indicates 
>that Jesus sinned.  In indicates that he lived within Jewish ritual.
>Other passages provide all the Biblical basis that we need for the
>sinless nature of Jesus.

You have a point here -- it is acknowledged.  It does not, however, take
away the inconsistency with the book of Leviticus.

>The problem here is not "removing 'without a cause'" as you have 
>said, but in adding without a cause in order to soften the original
>statement in order to justify our anger at others.

That's a possibility.  But there isn't anything saying that isn't what God
meant.

>My suggestion:  Learn about textual criticism.  Read commentaries.
>Become a scholar.

If I didn't know by now, I would know after reading this.  I couldn't care
less what a scholar said to me about the Word of God.  I want the Word of
God to tell me about the Word of God.  There are scholars that are
evolutionists; there are scholars that are atheists.  There are all kinds of
scholars.  What the heck makes you think becoming a scholar will open my
eyes to the truth?  I don't find that in the Bible.  In fact, I find that
true wisdom is an understanding of the Scriptures.  I find that understanding
is the fear of God.  I find that "the love of Christ surpasses knowledge"
(paraphrased, possibly).

Hard to take, isn't it?  Hard to accept that you, as a scholar, don't have
intellectual dominion over the rest of us.

Wisdom to man is FOOLISHNESS to God.  And the Word of God is GOD'S wisdom.
So don't even talk to me about becoming a so-called "scholar."

>And don't forget about the work of the Holy 
>Spirit within the translator or group of translators.

Oh!  So you think the Holy Spirit needs fifty million translations to perfect
the Book in the English language?  He wasn't powerful enough to get it right
in the King James?

>minds that think, and provided these source documents for a reason --
>so that we can insure the accuracy of the word of God.

"...so that *WE* can..."  ?????

>p.s.  I have nothing against the KJV, except that it is not highly
>understandeable language.  God wants us to understand His word not
>stumble over His word.  Sticking with archaic language is another
>way in which the church puts stumbling blocks in front of the un-
>churched population.  

You just got finished saying it should not contain "without a cause",
probably should contain "their", shouldn't contain "through his blood" and
a number of other things.  Hmmm.
-- 
==============================================================================
--Sam.         ss1@kepler.unh.edu              Preview of coming attractions:
 ___________________________________                 A brand new .sig!
|      W A S T E D   S P A C E      |             Coming to a newsgroup near
|___________________________________|                               YOU!
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christianity,rec.music.christian