HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: r0mill01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu (COMPDIGEST)
Newsgroups: comp.edu.composition
Subject: (Fwd: *C&CD*) WetWare (Was: Slime Molds and Hypertext...) (10)
Date: 9 Sep 92 10:36:46 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville

$undigest -s="WetWare (Was: Slime Molds and Hypertext...) (10)" [.new_news]cmpd6262.mss

Date:         Wed, 09 Sep 1992 06:08:50 EDT
From:         IN%"RobertRoyar@Delphi.com" Robert Royar (C&CD Moderator)
Message-Id:   <1992Sep09.060850.1.Grendel.Lair@Cratylus>
Subject:      WetWare (Was: Slime Molds and Hypertext...) (10)
Reply-to:     IN%"R0MILL01@ULKYVX.LOUISVILLE.EDU"  C&CD
Organization: Cratylus Educational Software

In message <AeeINKW00Uh7M3Vf1z@andrew.cmu.edu> Lili Velez
<lv08+%ANDREW.CMU.EDU@CARNEGIE.BITNET> says
>If left unattended, the average bathroom tile surface can provide
>numerous slime molds.  Unfortunately, _nothing_ "spontaneously" provides
>hardware capable of running hypertext programs. I have to work with
>materials that my students are able to get their hands on....

If left unattended the human brain will spontaneously develop wetware capable
of running hypertext programs.  We do it all the time.  Perhaps the real value
to hypertext (should there be any) is not in the neat ways we can trick the
user into thinking we've created a world in the machine but in the spillover
of the concept of hyperware into the user's thinking strategies. But then that
still leaves the question of how the user gets the initial training to learn
the hypersystem of thinking.

 -- Robert Royar (RobertRoyar@Delphi.com) New York Institute of Technology
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Newsgroups: comp.edu.composition
From: r0mill01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu (COMPDIGEST)
Subject: (Fwd: *C&CD*) Popular and unpopular culture (12)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 14:47:44 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville

$undigest -s="Popular and unpopular culture (12)" [.new_news]cmpd6259.mss

Date:         Mon, 07 Sep 1992 06:04:20 EDT
From:         IN%"RobertRoyar@Delphi.com" Robert Royar (C&CD Moderator)
Message-Id:   <1992Sep07.060420.2.Grendel.Lair@Cratylus>
Subject:      Popular and unpopular culture (12)
Reply-to:     IN%"R0MILL01@ULKYVX.LOUISVILLE.EDU"  C&CD
Organization: Cratylus Educational Software

David E. Schwalm <IACDES@ASUACAD.BITNET> in MBU-L%92090702395010@TTUVM1.BITNET
(Mon, 7 Sep 1992 02:39:49) writes:
>Pop culture doesn't know that it's marginalized; it isn't in most
> places. It often is in universities (a small part of the world), and maybe it
> should be. Students live in the world of pop culture. Maybe the U can provide
> a little change of pace or perspective.

Isn't today's pop culture (or a significant portion of it) tomorrow's serious
research?  What was the equivalent of pop culture during the reign of the
Medici?  Was Joseph Conrad a pop writer?  Where do artists such as Warhol fit
in this interpretation?  I look at many school catalogues--job prospects being
what they are today *8^)--and see communication arts (advertising, TV
production, etc.) as major departments of the university.  What could courses
in these areas focus on other than technical expertise and pop culture?

Those of us interested in folklore or descriptive linguistics are locked in
popular culture.  Opera began (and really remained some would say) rooted in
popular culture as did the music of the Romanticists.  The work of Hawthorne
and Melville was once part of the popular tradition.  Some would say Milton
fits the same category (although I'd place him in the sub-category of Science
Fiction for PL, PR, and SA).  Dickens was serialized in pop magazines, roughly
equivalent to Tom Wolf's being serialized in the _Rolling Stone_.  Even Joyce
and Pynchon, whose knotedness may bar mass reading, were/are strongly
influenced by and had/have influenced the pop culture in which they were/are
imbedded.

IMHO both Bloom and Hirsch miss the point because they were unable to peel
away any of the layers in their own retentive psyches far enough to find that
all culture is ultimately SOMEONE's pop culture.

 -- Robert Royar (RobertRoyar@Delphi.com) New York Institute of Technology
    "The average voter doesn't view himself as articulate, so I
    think they can understand the President."
                                                  -- Bob Teeter
                                                     Bush Campaign Manager

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From: r0mill01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu (COMPDIGEST)
Newsgroups: comp.edu.composition
Subject: (Fwd: *C&CD*) Mail Damage (1)
Date: 15 Sep 92 00:04:01 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville


Date:         Mon, 14 Sep 1992 04:32:18 EDT
From:         IN%"RobertRoyar@Delphi.com" Robert Royar (C&CD Moderator)
Message-Id:   <1992Sep14.043218.1.Grendel.Lair@Cratylus>
Subject:      Mail Damage (1)
Reply-to:     IN%"RobertRoyar@Delphi.com"
Organization: Cratylus Educational Software

Another C&CD administrative note.

Some of our mailings appear to be going awry (finding their way into the
mail boxes of non-subscribers, having their headers damaged and contents
lost).  Also the local mailer is now spooling the mail hours after it has
been placed in the que.  If you have problems, with Digest reception,
sending mail to my personal account (RobertRoyar@Delphi.com) is likely to
get a quicker (an easier for me) response.

I am sorry for any inconvenience that this may have caused.

 -- Robert Royar (RobertRoyar@Delphi.com) New York Institute of Technology

------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.edu.composition
From: r0mill01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu (COMPDIGEST)
Subject: (Fwd: *C&CD*) Splitting comp from eng (14)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 01:33:43 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville


Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 1992 20:34:32 EDT
From:         IN%"RobertRoyar@Delphi.com" Robert Royar (C&CD Moderator)
Message-Id:   <1992Sep10.203432.2.Grendel.Lair@Cratylus>
Subject:      Splitting comp from eng (14)
Reply-to:     IN%"R0MILL01@ULKYVX.LOUISVILLE.EDU"  C&CD
Organization: Cratylus Educational Software

I suppose the creation of separate comp departments has its drawbacks, but
from my current (and past) positions I can't quite see them.  I think it
usually ends up costing the eng people more than it does the compers.  As
the lone comper in a world of engs (and I like the people) I have a dickens
of a time getting people to understand/accept what I thought I'd learned
and know I was taught (at Dr. Huot's current site).  One thing I've noticed
about some of the eng folks who embrace comp is that they still don't want
to get their hands dirty.

Another difficulty we face here is getting the ephemeral litry ideas into a
usable form for instruction and developing instruments that we can tune to
measure our success or lack thereof in implementing any new ideas.  Few eng
folks I've met have any training in classroom research methods or in
pedagogical design (even simple things such as how to design a structured
lesson plan--not really simple as the compers know). Joe C., D. Hall (I bet
he didn't realize it), and M. Rosner showed us in grad school how and why
such plans were important.  And us comp folks took courses from education
specialists (Marjorie Kaiser was one for me) who taught us the classroom
had to be our focus if the students were to focus on the text.  Maybe I'm
wrong--I've been there before--but the eng folks I've known have mostly
wanted to "enlighten" their students.  The more progressive seem to think
we can "empower" them.  And few I've met wish to talk about or investigate
method.

 -- Robert Royar (RobertRoyar@Delphi.com) New York Institute of Technology
    Do not search for the Truth; simply cease to cherish opinion
                                                                 Sengestan
                                                            Third Zen Sage

------------------------------
From: r0mill01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu (COMPDIGEST)
Newsgroups: comp.edu.composition
Subject: (Fwd: *C&CD*) Forwarded message from BreadNet (2)
Date: 15 Sep 92 00:04:08 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville


Date:         Sun, 13 Sep 1992 15:01:40 EDT
From:         IN%"RobertRoyar@Delphi.com" Robert Royar (C&CD Moderator)
Message-Id:   <1992Sep13.150140.1.Grendel.Lair@Cratylus>
Subject:      Forwarded message from BreadNet (2)
Reply-to:     IN%"R0MILL01@ULKYVX.LOUISVILLE.EDU"  C&CD
Organization: Cratylus Educational Software

[I copped the following message from the BreadNet SIG, thinking it would be
of interest to MBU-L and the C&CD crowd -rdr]

69 (of 72) WWRIGHT (Bill Wright) Sep. 11, 1992 at  8:03 (1842 characters)

This conference is open to people on BreadNet, CHARTNet, and Urbnet --
and others.  Please feel free to put up requests for information, call
for projects, let us know about conferences, let us know what you
are reading, and so on.  I had to get over to my computer and tell you
about this:

Some teachers on the Iris network were all abuzz about the September
issue of Macworld magazine.  I got up early this morning and started
reading some articles -- and now I see why.  It is one of the best
collections of articles about technology and education I have ever
seen.  The pieces cover what is going on in the Federal government, to
what other countries are doing, to the success stories and failures in
this country.

One, called "Separate Realities"  (Subtitle: The creation of the
technological underclass in America's public schools)  was especially
good.  Among the examples of drill and kill and computer nonuse was
one story that caught my eye.  A teacher at Sir Francis Drake School
in San Francisco's depressed Hunters Point area went out picked up $50
old laptops that had been used for home banking in a project.

   To promote writing, Drake sent its students home with the
   laptops.  The simple terminals -- 300-bits-per-second modems
   with keyboards that plug into TV sets -- were once used for
   home banking.  Porter picked up the antiques for $50 each,
   supplying the whole class for less than the price of a
   Macintosh Classic.  Instead of going home and watching TV, the
   kids conversed online.  Their writing skills steadily
   improved.  Students and the parents also used the machines to
   communicate with teachers, opening a new link to family.  In
   one case, a semiliterate parent learned to write by following
   the child's example.

Again, this was in the September MacWorld magazine.

Bill Wright

------------------------------
From: dargan@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: comp.edu.composition
Subject: Re: (Fwd: *C&CD*) Transfering real life to Lit classes (7)
Date: 6 Sep 92 18:36:36 -0500
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

In article <1992Aug31.063204.1@ulkyvx.louisville.edu>, r0mill01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu (COMPDIGEST) writes:
> $undigest -s="Transferring real life to Lit classes (7)" [.new_news]cmpd6249.mss
> 
> Date:         Mon, 31 Aug 1992 04:52:20 EDT
> From:         IN%"RobertRoyar@Delphi.com" Robert Royar (C&CD Moderator)
> Message-Id:   <1992Aug31.045220.1.Grendel.Lair@Cratylus>
> Subject:      Transferring real life to Lit classes (7)
> Reply-to:     IN%"R0MILL01@ULKYVX.LOUISVILLE.EDU"  C&CD
> Organization: Cratylus Educational Software
> 
> In yesterday's (MBU-L) messages Myles Slatin <ENGMYLES@UBVMS.BITNET>
> Message-id: <01GO76F2KN1CGDC437@ulkyvx.bitnet> asks how we might transfer
> real-world situations for writing to our Lit classes.
> 
> I have had marginal success with a technique in a sohomore/junior-level
> required course (students here (NYIT) may choose from a number of "lit"
> courses in EITHER poetry, fiction, drama, or prose).  I've tried to develop
> short writing prompts that attempt to tie the stories the students read into
> their lives--prompts that allow them to show how some insight they found in a
> story helped them reinterpret a past event or that allow them to develop their
> own fiction based on their experience and the reading of the story.
> 
> I haven't found that any one level of student (i.e. the well prepared or the
> under prepared) do well or poorly as a group on these assignments. Some very
> poor writers can key into an important event in their past and show they've
> digested the reading. And some very good writers can be extremely wooden in
> their responses to this assignment.
> 
>  -- Robert Royar (RobertRoyar@Delphi.com) New York Institute of Technology
> 
> ------------------------------
> $deassign sys$output
I have a social worker friend who is using so-called "romance" novels in some
of her marital counseling situations.  She is looking for works in which
substantial conflict is due mtomale and female characters' inability to discern,
acknowledge and coordinate with the fantasies or perceptions of their partners. 
She has them read the works, abstract the fantasies of their counterparts, and
summarize.  With luck their consciousness will be raised and they will be more
able to empathize with their spouse.

We are going to use Elizabeth Tallent's short story "No One's into Me" as a
demonstrator.  I'm hoping that this will help my students to realize that
fiction does indeed have an impact on their lives and can be usseful.

Cheers--
Mike Dargan
Newsgroups: comp.edu.composition
From: r0mill01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu (COMPDIGEST)
Subject: (Fwd: *C&CD*) RE: WetWare (3)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 01:32:44 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville


Date: Wed,  9 Sep 1992 20:23:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: Lili Velez <lv08+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Message-id: <4efdK1600Uh_Q8=Id9@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: RE: WetWare (3)
Reply-to: Computers & Composition Digest (R. Royar) <R0MILL01@ULKYVX.BITNET>

I agree completely -- I recall times when students have latched onto
heuristics like "trees" and merrily applied them in every context they
could find.

But in terms of training hypertextual thinking....maybe we "just" use
the methods that we learned ourselves:  chasing ideas through various
references, being exposed to multiple perspectives and levels....oh
_heck_.   How _did_ we learn?

Lili
"Rhet in the Blue Linen Labcoat"

------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.edu.composition
From: r0mill01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu (COMPDIGEST)
Subject: (Fwd: *C&CD*) About setting up list servers (9)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 01:14:13 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville


Date:         Wed, 09 Sep 1992 20:09:18 EDT
From:         IN%"RobertRoyar@Delphi.com" Robert Royar (C&CD Moderator)
Message-Id:   <1992Sep09.200918.2.Grendel.Lair@Cratylus>
Subject:      About setting up list servers (9)
Reply-to:     IN%"R0MILL01@ULKYVX.LOUISVILLE.EDU"  C&CD
Organization: Cratylus Educational Software

Dickie Selfe <RSELFE@MTU.EDU> <01GOL2HNIYMO9ULN56@ulkyvx.bitnet> writes
>Unix systems have 'aliases' I believe.
>but this is all seems very piddly compared to the efforts made by Fred Kemp
>and Robert Royer.  If we want some interesting advice on the setting up of
>virtual spheres of public (?) discourse, we should ask them.  Perhaps they
>can tell us about the techniques they have tried and in what sense those
>attempts were effective.

I just purchased a book from Digital Press _Writing Real Programs in DCL_.
Fot those of you on a Vax system, DCL (Digital Command Language) is the
default command shell that gives you the familiar `$' prompt and interprets
your commands.  I've been using DCL to attempt to further automate the Digest
work.  I now use Delphi to handle most of the file transfering.  But they
cannot support giant lists nor do they allow access to the programming level of
DCL.  So on the U of L Vax (900 miles from my house) a little mailer "daemon"
watches my mail box and forwards mail, extracts mail from Delphi (technically
shar files which contain command procedures).  I find it real fascinating how I
can write these little scripts and mail them to another computer which has the
little daemon running on it, and it then unpacks and routes the whole thing to
the readers--returning the status to me in mail files and sending me any new
in-coming messages.

David Sewell has created something similar (but I believe a bit more robust and
elaborate) to handle archives on his system.

Anyway, I'd love to get a sustained conversation about this techy stuff going.
It just reminds me so much of what fiction does to my head--buit these scripts
and mail servers are working in the computers' "heads".

As Dickie said " I ramble."

 -- Robert Royar (RobertRoyar@Delphi.com) New York Institute of Technology

------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.edu.composition
From: r0mill01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu (COMPDIGEST)
Subject: (Fwd: *C&CD*) Entropy on botany bay (9)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 01:33:32 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville


Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 1992 20:17:30 EDT
From:         IN%"RobertRoyar@Delphi.com" Robert Royar (C&CD Moderator)
Message-Id:   <1992Sep10.201730.1.Grendel.Lair@Cratylus>
Subject:      Entropy on botany bay (9)
Reply-to:     IN%"R0MILL01@ULKYVX.LOUISVILLE.EDU"  C&CD
Organization: Cratylus Educational Software

>Robert Boyar,
>   And have you found that the "daemon" keeps entropy at bay?  :)

>Jim Shimabukuro

It tends to increase the entropy but I have fun in the chaos.  "Whoops
there's a minor bug" And 50K of messages eat up an additional $12.00 per
site for the 152 subscribers (a paltry $1824.00 in extra line and connect
costs).  Imagine all that text as it hits the satelite uplink station and
heads to your site in Hawaii or Thomas Ng's in Nottingham.  Imagine all that
electro magnetic encoding zinging through the (non-existent) ether
practically crest to trough with garbled encrypted military secrets and
pornographic movies piped into our homes (who can tell which is which?)

 -- Robert Royar (RobertRoyar@Delphi.com) New York Institute of Technology
 Give me entropy, or give me enthalpy, but don't give me an exothermic reaction

------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.edu.composition
From: r0mill01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu (COMPDIGEST)
Subject: (Fwd: *C&CD*) Computers and Composition Digest 6.258 (1)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 10:46:22 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville

$undigest -s="Computers and Composition Digest 6.258 (1)" [.new_news]cmpd6260.mss

Date: Mon, 7 Sep 92  17:48:31 EDT
From: "Dennis R. Hall" <DRHALL01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU>
Message-id: <01GOIFKE6Z7K9D4B3B@ulkyvx.bitnet>
Subject: Computers and Composition Digest 6.258 (1)
Reply-to: Computers & Composition Digest (R. Royar) <R0MILL01@ULKYVX.BITNET>

Director of Composition, Department of English
Phone: (502) 588-6896
Regarding Ice T, Murphy Brown, Grioux, Popular Culture and the like,
may I suggest people take a look at John Fiske's book on Television.
He makes a strong if not entirely convincing case for the independent,
transactional consumer of of popular culture.


------------------------------
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From: r0mill01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu (COMPDIGEST)
Subject: (Fwd: *C&CD*) All whites are not WASPs (12)
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 18:15:52 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville

$undigest -s="All whites are not WASPs (12)" [.new_news]cmpd6258.mss

Date:         Sun, 06 Sep 1992 10:12:32 EDT
From:         IN%"RobertRoyar@Delphi.com" Robert Royar (C&CD Moderator)
Message-Id:   <1992Sep06.101232.1.Grendel.Lair@Cratylus>
Subject:      All whites are not WASPs (12)
Reply-to:     IN%"R0MILL01@ULKYVX.LOUISVILLE.EDU"  C&CD
Organization: Cratylus Educational Software

Some of us come from cultures which were oppressed by the WASPs in their (the
WASPs) (stolen) native land.  IMHO, la[i]bel an Irish-American a WASP (no
matter the color of his/her skin/eyes/hair) and you've spat in his/her face.
My poor Scots-Irish maternal ancestors settled in rural NC in the early
1700s.  My father's family escaped religious persecution from the Alsace
(one-half from the Germanic "side" the other from the Frankish) in the 1850s.
I get called a WASP often.  If we're going to encourage ethnic identity and
ethnic pride, let's learn something about each other's cultures instead of
recriminating one another.  I agree with David--the power structure is money
based.

BTW I saw an interesting interview between David Cavett and Public Enemy a few
months ago.  That group, which is college educated by the way, return some of
what they receive to their home.  I find PE videos haunting and disturbing--as
powerful as any docudrama or full-length film.  But I liked to listen to the
Last Poets when I was in junior high and high school.

 -- Robert Royar (RobertRoyar@Delphi.com) New York Institute of Technology

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From: r0mill01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu (COMPDIGEST)
Subject: (Fwd: *C&CD*) How _did_ we learn? (Was: RE: Wetware) (4)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 01:32:53 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville


Date:         Wed, 09 Sep 1992 22:05:38 EDT
From:         IN%"RobertRoyar@Delphi.com" Robert Royar (C&CD Moderator)
Message-Id:   <1992Sep09.220538.1.Grendel.Lair@Cratylus>
Subject:      How _did_ we learn? (Was: RE: Wetware) (4)
Reply-to:     IN%"R0MILL01@ULKYVX.LOUISVILLE.EDU"  C&CD
Organization: Cratylus Educational Software

Lili,

That's quite a question, and applicable to mycelia.  The relationship
between the learning and the learner are similar to the relationship
between the mass of mycelia (which lies hidden) and the visible "fruiting
body" which is visible.  The learning has a will of its own.  Once in a
while it allows itself to surface and manifest itself in some conscious
action on the learner's behalf. When this occurs, it transforms the
learner--often without her/is knowledge.

An Association:

The summer was so humid three years ago that we began to find mushrooms
growing in the corners of our bathroom.  They sprouted two-three times a
week.  About a year later the wall began to callapse.  The mycelia had
decomposed the organic material (some idiot used sheet rock instead of
wet-wall materials on the tub surround).  I also think of this when I see a
commercial for athletes foot medication.

 -- Robert Royar (RobertRoyar@Delphi.com) New York Institute of Technology
    Maybe you thought I was the Packard Goose!
            Run ne run ne run ne run ne ooo
                            Or the Ronald McDonald of the nouveau abstruse
                                           -- Frank Zappa
                                              Well-known-musician type guy

------------------------------
From: r0mill01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu (COMPDIGEST)
Newsgroups: comp.edu.composition
Subject: (Fwd: *C&CD*) Back issues information on comp/lit split (5)
Date: 15 Sep 92 00:04:15 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville


Date:         Mon, 14 Sep 1992 04:40:18 EDT
From:         IN%"RobertRoyar@Delphi.com" Robert Royar (C&CD Moderator)
Message-Id:   <1992Sep14.044018.2.Grendel.Lair@Cratylus>
Subject:      Back issues information on comp/lit split (5)
Reply-to:     IN%"R0MILL01@ULKYVX.LOUISVILLE.EDU"  C&CD
Organization: Cratylus Educational Software

Computers and Composition Digest is archived at
  compos01@finhutc.bitnet
FINHUTC (Helsinki) is a LISTSERV site.  The early postings in the UT Austin
issue may be available from them.  The issue first appeared Saturday, 05
September and was covered in issue 6.258 of the Digest (mailed Sunday, 06
September).  Because of the way mail goes through our system, I can't be
sure which responses came next.  I'm also not sure the Digest covered all
the early postings because we were having mail reception problems then and
I believe some mail was lost.

Additionally David Sewell, who is currently on leave from Rochester, was
maintaining an archive server for topics in MBU-L, C&CD, and others.  I'm
sorry I don't have his new "western US" address, but he has been on MBU-L
since his move.

We do not have the storage to keep back issues at this site.  But perhaps
the information above will make finding those issues easier.  BTW the
multicultural flap at UT Austin (about two summers ago?) is really the
beginning of this thread.  John posted some rather involved transcripts of
discussions and syllabi during that time.

 -- Robert Royar (RobertRoyar@Delphi.com) New York Institute of Technology

*************************************
Newsgroups: comp.edu.composition