From: "Keith McIntyre, Software, SMF, 916-823-0200" <KEITH_M1@sfov1.verifone.com>
Newsgroups: rec.audio.high-end
Subject: Threshold amplifier and Sony CD review
Date: 06 Oct 1992 13:40:19 -0700
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Originator: tjk@csd4.csd.uwm.edu

Two reviews in one. CD players and an amplifier review.

My listening was done with Martin Logan Sequel II speakers, MIT ZapChord speaker
wire, Threshold SA/4e power amplifier, Quicksilver phono interconnects. The
room is 20 by 16 by 8.5 feet. I have done extensive sound treatments and
modifications to the room. The room is by far the most significant component
in the system, followed by the speakers. I direct connect the CD player to the
power amplifier - no preamp in the circuit.

                          CD Player Evaluation

The contestants were and the prices asked:
Sony CDP-C625 $293
Sony CDP-C79ES $395
Onkyo Integra DX-C909 $599
Denon DCM 420 $400

All of these players were carousel type multi-CD players. All had variable
analog RCA phono plugs which I ran directly to my amplifier. All had volume
control on the remote controls. All had digital outputs (coax or optical) which
I wanted for future upgrading.

Short and sweet evaluation: The Sony CDP-C79ES won the contest hands down. This
CD player has Sony's newest 1 bit technology in it.  The player has more
clarity, detail, three dimensionality, imaging and soundstage reproduction at
all frequencies. Soundstage reproduction is so much better that I can actually
measure the increased soundstage (both vertical and horizontal) in feet. On
almost all the CDs I listened to the width of the soundstage increased by
6 feet. Vertical imaging increased by about 2 or 3 feet. Depth wasn't increased
in absolute size - the system already had gobs of depth. Imaging outside
the side walls of my listening room happens routinely on just about all my CDs.
Clarity and detail is almost unbelievable on some CDs. A 1971 Judy
Collins "Living" recording that was done on old analog equipment during live
concerts has so much detail in it as to be almost eerie.

How about the also rans? The Sony CDP-C625 was in second place. It lacked the
clarity, detail, etc. mentioned for the ES series player. It did have deeper
bass than the ES player, but the bass was overly taught and lacked the richness
in the bass of the ES player. I would have liked it's deep bass in the ES
player.

The Denon was very close to the Sony C625, but didn't have the bass of the
Sony CDP-C625. The lack of deep bass put it in third place, otherwise it would
have been a tie for second place.

The Onkyo was a very distant fourth. The other three trounced it as far as
clarity, detail, transparency, etc. It did have deep bass, about it's only
redeeming quality. What was really sad was that it was the most expensive
CD player, had a copper plated bottom and was supposedly designed and tweaked
for high end systems. Oh well...

I did notice some correlation with specifications (to my surprise). Frequency
response specs seemed to have some resemblence to audible bass response. S/N
ratios, channel separation, and dynamic range specifications also seemed to
have some correlation to imaging, soundstage, transparency, etc. A LOOSE
correlation mind you. I wouldn't buy a CD player unheard based only on
specifications.

Word of warning: All the CD players had to warm up for at least an hour to
sound the best. I let them all warm up for 24 hours just to be sure. The Sony
ES player takes about a week to break in (see below on the power amp). Do
not draw conclusions on the Sony ES player until it has been played for a
week or so.

                         Threshold Amplifier Upgrade

I have owned a Threshold 400A since around 1980. I had it upgraded to the first
generation Stasis technology in 1984. I just had it upgraded to the latest
generation about 1 month ago. Threshold says this makes it the equivalent of
the SA/4e. In other words, an $890 upgrade gives you a $6,300 amplifier.

This one is simple. It was definitely worth the money. At this point the amp
is so transparent I don't think I know what it sounds like. I was intially
disappointed in it's sound (even after a 24 hour warm up). But as each hour
of listening went by it sounded better. After about 3 or 4 hours of listening
it surpassed the old amp. After a few days it was stunning. Threshold confirmed
in a phone conversation that it must break in for about 1 week. They don't
know why, but a 400A upgrade and some of their big new amps do the same thing.

The only reason I know it sounds good and that I am not just listening to the
CD player's limitations is because of the break in period. I heard the amp
improve for days. By the time I tried the CD player comparison, the amp had
broken in.

Where are the improvements? Bass response, image and soundstage are the most
obvious. How do I know it's not the CD player? I tried out a Sony ES player
about 1.5 years ago and know what it sounded like through the previous amp.
That Sony ES player was the equivalent of the regular line Sony CD player of
today (the Sony CDP-C625). How can I remember the difference over so much
time? I am not into subtleties. Either a difference is obvious or I don't
pay much attention to it. In other words, I measure out the size of the
soundstage on a recording and I remember when bass was/was not audible on
a recording.

In addition, the increase in bass response is one I can hear, feel in my
gut (it has so much impact), and see. See? Yeah, the amp makes the lights
flicker on demanding bass passages. Those capacitors really suck up the power.

                                 Conclusion

The Sony ES is a deal - buy one. It's loaded with features and sounds great.
It would be interesting to put it up against some $2000 A/D converters in
the high end realm. The amp upgrade is a real steal.

                                   Theories

The reason for the CD player sounding that good I believe is due to the
increased speed of the digital processing circuitry in the Sony ES player.
The ES series runs at 90MHz versus 45MHz for the regular Sony. There is
a lot of math behind the theory of higher speed circuits sounding better,
but my knowledge is superficial and for all I know the ES player just has
a better volume control.

The Onkyo was a 1 bit system and the Denon was not. The Denon
beat the Onkyo significantly. Evidently 1 bit systems can sound worse than
multibit systems if the 1 bit systems are not fast enough.

As for the amp, it is my belief that amplifiers are not specified with the
most critical parameter - linearity in gain. Nelson Pass at Threshold has
been trying to make completely linear amps for about 10 years now. He seems
to have taken another step in that direction. In recent literature, Threshold
has more or less admitted that as amps age they become non-linear. Their newest
designs try to compensate for that. It can deliver 100+ amps per channel, prior
versions were not as hefty.