HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gary@colossus.cgd.ucar.edu (Gary Strand)
Subject: Re: Colorado Amendment 2: The First Fatality
Organization: Climate and Global Dynamics Division/NCAR, Boulder, CO
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 18:12:42 GMT

bd> Bob Donahue
gs> Gary Strand

  [#2 fosters an attitude of intolerance toward gay people, which translates
   in the minds of some extremists into: "it's okay to bash gay people."]

gs> Then that's the extremists' problem, isn't it? That's like saying that the
    selling of alcohol makes drunk driving OK. The problem is with the people
    who drink and drive, not those who sell alcohol.

bd> Fuck you - Tell that to the person at the other end of the knife/gun/fist.

  Seems you're incapable of avoiding the use of unnecessary vulgarity.

  Anyway, what do you tell a woman who was raped by a guy who constantly lis-
  tened to "2 Live Crew"? That free speech just isn't worth it? Or do you
  recognize that even though abuses can occur, they're no reason to toss the
  whole thing?

bd> Your postings are way out of line for soc.motss. Please edit the news-
    groups line accordingly.

  Where to, then? I agree the discussion is becoming less relevant to soc.motss
  specifically, so where should it go? Into the toilet? You've certainly done
  your part.

--
Gary Strand                      Opinions stated herein are mine alone and are
strandwg@ncar.ucar.edu            not representative of NCAR, UCAR, or the NSF
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anthropo@carina.unm.edu (Dominick V. Zurlo)
Subject: A NEW BEAR GROUP IN ALBUQUERQUE
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 92 23:00:36 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

 Just another post for all you out there wondering what's 
happening.  Well we've begun to get responses, but due 
to my shoulder muscles being pulled, Fliers are going up 
tonight.  If you didn't see the original posting, we are
forming the new group and will meet on either the Sat or Sun
before T-day, so email me at:
	 anthropo@carina.unm.edu
or call me at home at : (505)-842-6013.  If I or another 
of my life-forms in the house do not pick up the phone, 
please leave a message witht he automated voice (the 
answering machine) and I'll get back to you quickly with info.



It looks like we're going to have a good group out here!!!! Yeahhhh!!!

Flapjack
"Yes I'm bi, both top and bottom."
B4/5 f(+) w (c+d)v g++ k+(+)v s(-/+)v m e r(+) p
(god isn't this an awful coding.......)
(no, it's just from someone in hibernation)
From: mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: What's going on in CO, any definite news?
Date: 6 Nov 92 17:46:39 GMT
Organization: (getting there)

snodgras@lclark.edu (Bil Snodgrass) writes:
 >Call me stupid...(insert your call) but why is this county thing so 
 >important?  County lines are invisable.  Of course the metro area
 >carried the more liberal side of the Measures.  We always do.  We
 >are the saving grace of Oregon.  We lost Klamath County (surprise?).
 >We lost a county with 57702 people.  Twenty-four thousand one hundred
 >and eleven people voted in that county.  41% (9,782) voted no and 59% 
 >(14,329) voted yes.

Tabulating votes according to counties shows the geographical
pattern of an attitude in the state.  I have no reason now to avoid
another visit to Oregon, but I daresay I'll stay in the Portland
area on my next visit.  And if I were considering moving to the area
I certainly would want to know what areas were friendly.





>Bil

>>I think, but I'm not positive, that we lost 20 of the 36 counties. The
>>big surprise county was the one around Salem, where we were expecting
>>to win but didn't.


>Anyone who expected Marion county to be on our side hasn't lived
>in Oregon very long!

>>
>>Oregon is so incredibly divided on politics. You should see the map of
>>Clinton vs. Bush, or AuCoin vs Packwood..


>Again this map thing....How is Oregon divide?  Sure in landsize area
>Bush and Packwood won big time!  But in reality this state 43% voted
>Clinton, 32% voted Bush and 25% voted Perot.  The republicans before
>the election said that Perot's jumping back in would hurt Clinton
>more than Bush.  The vast majority of Oregonians wanted Perot out.
>To use Mr. Rushlimbaugh's type of math, 68% of the state of Oregon
>wanted Bush out of office.....Not to much division there.

>                __
>>nelson@reed.edu \/   Indifference, the plague that moves throughout this land


>Bil Snodgrass III
>Oregon is funky state.  We are real liberal in our big cities and
>real conservative in our small towns.  It was the small towns and
>counties of Oregon who helped us win on measure 9.  Look at 
>the Trojan vote where we as a county voted to close down Trojan, our
>nuclear radiation plant, but the rest of Oregon voted to keep it.  It
>shows that we need them to help us win things and they came through
>for us on Measure 9.  Maybe it sounds like I am switching sides 
>of the stream on this one, but as I wrote this I started to see (hope?)
>that we aren't as divided as we may think.  So I will work from there.
-- 

  Mara Chibnik
  mara@panix.com                Life is too important to be taken seriously.
From: flier@excalsys.excalsys.com (Rich Reynolds)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Have there been protests in Colorado?
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 92 08:49:18 MDT
Organization: Excalibur Systems, Inc.
Reply-To: flier@excalsys.excalsys.com (Rich Reynolds)
X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.6v1


In article <1992Nov6.034545.27035@reed.edu> (soc.motss), nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:
> I'm curious - what sort of direct actions have there been in Colorado?
> Any major protests, riots, planned vandalism? Anything?
> 
> We're not going to get that news from the papers, so we have to rely
> on people in Colorado to tell us.
>                 __
> nelson@reed.edu \/                      When you expect flutes, it's whistles
> 

Riots.....Vandalism....

Get real....

All that would do is help the shitheads prove that we are not
deserving of equal protection.

Yes, there have been a number of protests with more in the works.

In fact, the govenor led the first protest on Tuesday night and
is standing up to a lot of heat as Honorary Chairman of EPOC.

Rich


>>>>>>>>> flier@excalsys.com <<<<<<<<<
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: houser@rtsg.mot.com (Elizabeth J. Houser)
Subject: Re: Lesbian Visibility on Roseanne
Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 19:51:49 GMT

>>Yes, my favorite Morgan Fairchild quote is something along the
>>lines of, "What happens if the virus goes airborne?"  She uttered
>>this beaut in a fundie anti-gay propaganda video a few years back
>>(referring to HIV, of course).

>Are we talking about the same person?  The Morgan Fairchild
>I've heard of is a longtime, public supporter of liberal
>and feminist causes, especially the pro-choice movement, also
>environmentalist stuff.  She's been rumored for years to be
>a lesbian (as well as play one on TV :-)), and is definitely
>not the sort of person one would expect to see consorting
>with fundies, or uttering anti-gay twaddle or AIDS
>disinformation.

Perhaps it is possible that she made this statement back when
AIDS was less understood, and the fundies used it out of context
to support their cause?

-Liz

Xref: sparky soc.motss:47315 alt.politics.homosexuality:7127 co.politics:1898
From: ckirby@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov (Charles Kirby)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality,co.politics
Subject: Re: Colorado Amendment 2: The First Fatality
Date: 12 Nov 92 23:50:44 GMT
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory (NASA)

In article <1992Nov12.191913.8438@ncar.ucar.edu> gary@colossus.cgd.ucar.edu (Gary Strand) writes:
>
>  It does not deny homosexuals equal rights.

It singles out gay people as individuals particularly not deserving
of protection if their constitutionally guaranteed equal rights are violated.

> It denies the the ability of the state to create quotas for gays,
> or give gays minority status

It gives state employers the ability to discriminate against gay people
without fear of legal recourse.

> and it denies
>  gays the use of the legal system to correct alleged cases of discrimination.

In other words, it denies gay people equal rights, since other individuals
are allowed use of the legal system to correct alleged cases of discrimination.

>  It does not permit gay-bashing.
>

It fosters an attitude of intolerance toward gay people, which translates
in the minds of some extremists into: "it's okay to bash gay people."


>  I wouldn't take the words of a deeply disturbed individual as being
>  objective. 

Good advice.  From your posting I find you to be a cold, uncaring, 
disturbed individual and will not take your words as being objective

>  All the rest of us noted that #2 passed, why didn't all of us
>  kill ourselves? Yes, #2 pushed this particular man over the edge, but his
>  reality was so messed-up to begin with that using his suicide as a means to
>  inspire repeal of #2 is cheap.

Maybe his reality was really messed up.  But why would you try to hide
his claim that passage of 2 was a direct cause of his suicide? What is cheap
is your dismissing his words in deference to your oh-so compassionate
judgement that "he didn't like himself", and gee, "isn't that too bad". 

>rm> What Marty, and most homosexuals are looking for is acceptance of them-
>    selves from their environment and the people around them.  What Marty felt
>    on Wednesday, Nov 4 1992 was rejection.
>
>  That's his problem. I'm not an uncaring person,

Yes you are. 

>  But it all depends on how you react to this rejection. Committing suicide
>  isn't the way to deal with it. Getting angry and changing things is.

Committing suicide is not the way you claim you would deal with it.  Some
people have, and others will commit suicide because they are tired of
being angry, tired of fighting, tired of being oppressed and being
told by our oppressors that we are responsible for our own lot in life.
People who are in this situation deserve compassion, a shoulder to lean
on, an ear to listen to them, not condescending, holier-than-thou spewings
about "liking yourself."  Fuck off.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jackies@fc.hp.com (Jackie Sheddy X6958)
Subject: Gay Ski Week boycott?
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 11:01:17 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Fort Collins Site
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.3 PL6]


Reading the local  paper (I'm sure you are  familiar  with it John - The
Coloradoan),  I got the  impression  that Aspen still would like to have
it.  They may change their mind, but I'm not sure.


Peace,

Jackie
jackies@hpxxx.fc.hp.com
Hate is NOT a Family Value!!

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: stephena@netcom.com (Stephen Arrants)
Subject: Re: the purpose of soc.motss (was: off-topic discussions)
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 14:48:10 GMT

In article <BxGx7J.Iyy@scd.hp.com> mdrayton@sr.hp.com (Mike Drayton) writes:
>Jess Anderson (anderson@macc.wisc.edu) wrote:
>> 
>> In article <BxGLo7.BGt@scd.hp.com> mdrayton@sr.hp.com (Mike
>> Drayton) writes:
>> 
>> ]Nelson Minar (nelson@reed.edu) wrote:
>> 
>> ]> soc.motss.diesel
>> 
>> ]Oh, absolutely!  I mean, last Saturday afternoon when I was rebuilding
>> ]the vacuum pump, inspecting the bushes, checking my spray pattern,
>> ]and measuring the volume delivered, I really _really_ could have used 
>> ]some help and support from some other diesel-queens!
>> 
>> ]> I'd propose soc.motss.sex, but...
>> 
>> ]I wouldn't be interested in that at all. 
>> 
>> You would be if I got a chance to show you my glow plugs!
>
>You'll have to get 'em out first.  Sometimes that ain't so easy.
>
>> How many whorespower does yours have?  I love big ones!
>
>Wanna trade bore & stroke measurements?

Bore and stroke, stroke and bore -- whatever happened to the romance in
mechanics?


Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: coren@speed.osf.org (Robert Coren)
Subject: Re: OCA launches _new_ petition drive
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 15:41:32 GMT

In article <Bx9M2n.87L@world.std.com>, entropy@world.std.com (The Entropic one) writes:
> In article <Bwyp7F.ALI@agora.rain.com> bcapps@agora.rain.com (Brent Capps) writes:
> >AND NOW!  FROM THE SAME KIND FOLKS WHO BROUGHT YOU OREGON MEASURE 9!
> >
> >(drum roll) (majestic fanfare blaat by massed nose whistle band) TA DA!
> >
> >   *   *   *   A new initiative petition drive   *   *   *
> >
> >to establish an government committee to oversee and control radio,
> >TV and print news coverage.
> 
> Actually this is probably good news, this means they will be wasting there
> money on something that will make them look like complete idiots and has
> no chance of passing in the current political climate.

Don't count on it. Reasonable people would have said that the wording
of Measure 9 made its sponsors look like complete idiots. It took
massive campaigning to get 55% of the electorate to vote against it.
From: bearcub@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (The Husky Cub)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: best remake of gay song
Date: 12 Nov 1992 15:01:39 GMT
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4

>>In article <Nov.10.13.56.13.1992.19564@math.rutgers.edu> bgonzal@math.rutgers.edu (Bil Gonzalez) writes:
>>
>>Thoughts on Cyndi? Other artists who can be read ambiguously? 
>>Crowded House, in their eponymous album, is my favorite in 
>>this regard. I'll post or e-mail lyrics if anyone is curious.
>
>Actually, my current beef is just the oppisite; gay groups who sing
>songs that can't be told from any other...
>I just got Kitchens of Distinction (love the name) first album, and
>if I hadn't known they were gay before I bought it, I never would have
>known from anything in the album itself.   Aarrggghhhh!
>
Hmmm....I didn't know the K of D were gay. And I even work in a music store.
Sheesh.

My favorite "gay innuendo" from a song is from Queen. I can tell this is
Freddie's doing. It's from "One Vision" from the album "A Kind Of Magic".

(near the end of the song)
Just gimme...that
One man     one man
one bar     one night
one day     hey hey

Gee..no clues given. None at all.
>
>


-- 
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\bearcub@csd4.csd.uwm.edu/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
<  B1w+fkgc+ = Freddie Mercury and Big Bossman's Love Child :)           >
<  Y...M...C...A...it's fun to stay at the Y...M...C...A...hey!          >
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
From: mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Colorado tactics
Date: 6 Nov 92 17:43:13 GMT
Organization: (getting there)

kanga.caltech.edu!magney (Michael Agney) writes:

 >Allow me to introduce myself.  Though I'm not motss, I am willing to keep
 >my mind open.
That's always a good start.

 >Some of the tactics discussed here as means of getting Colorado to see
 >what's wrong with Amendment 2 (i.e. trying to demolish the economy by
 >sending for thousands of free catalogs, calling 800 numbers, etc.) are
 >likely to backfire with the general public.  I know that, were I not the
 >rational being (:-) that I am, I would be somewhat frightened by a
 >full-barrel attack on my state just because "a bunch of faggots" (not my
 >opinion, repeat, NOT MY OPINION) were a little displeased by the results
 >of a referendum.

I think I know what you're saying, and I don't think that I'm
reacting to your use of slang, but I do think there's a point you're
missing.

Coloradans have accepted curtailing the rights of homosexuals,
lesbians and bisexual people.  If they (the Coloradans) now think
that these people, who have been officially declared other than
full-fledged citizens of the state, are "a little displeased" they
need to have their calibrations reset.  If they think that the
amendment represents just some old referendum that isn't worth
getting all heated up over, they need to be educated to the
contrary.  If economic action will accomplish that, I think it's 
great.

That said, I would not, myself, try to waste resources of Colorado
companies except those that I know to have supported Prop. 2.  I'm
willing to boycott the state, but if I'm going to take directed
action against a particular company, I'd like to have some reason
for the direction.  The fact that the company happens to have an 800
number doesn't really seem sufficient to me.


-- 

  Mara Chibnik
  mara@panix.com                Life is too important to be taken seriously.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jcarroll@bach.udel.edu (Royal J Carroll)
Subject: Re: Halloween
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 15:36:01 GMT

This year I went as Annie Lennox (in her early 80's stage).  I dyed my
hair red and wore a suit and makeup.  I must have done a good job
because when they found out I did my own makeup, about 10-15 women asked
if I could do theirs!

-James

-- 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
But if some one really cared/well they'd take the time to spare
A moment to try and understand/another one's despair
-Axl Rose, "Breakdown"-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=jcarroll@brahms.udel.edu-
From: his@the-temple.East.Sun.COM (Howard Solomon - SunExpress Support Engineer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: What to do about Colorado
Date: 6 Nov 92 22:15:30 GMT
Reply-To: his@the-temple.East.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems
NNTP-Posting-Host: the-temple.east.sun.com

Terry Bartlett wrote:

One very important reason Amendment 2 passed, despite the text of
the proposition, was the way it was worded on the ballot.  My ballot
simply said "Amendment 2: Gay Rights".  How many people do you think
voted "yes" instead of "no" because of this?

This is very interesting.  I would think the vagueness of the ballot itself
would make for good legal grounds to try to overturn it.  Here in MA, the
ballot questions often want you to vote yes if you mean no, etc., but there
is always more detail than the CO one had.

HS


---
========================================================================
Howard I. Solomon			|ELECTION '92
Software Support Engineer, SunExpress	|Say goodnight, George.
his@east.sun.com			|
=========================================================================
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: ECL4JN2@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (Jack B. Nimble)
Subject: Re: Social Democracy
Date: 6 Nov 92 00:37:32 PST

In article <1992Oct29.202518.1072@macc.wisc.edu>, on 29 Oct 92 20:25:18 GMT,
anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>
>In article <19921028232740ECL4JN2@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU>
>ECL4JN2@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (Jack B.  Newsbaum) writes:
>
>>Instead of sitting around moping how awful it is that the
>>government doesn't do this and that to stop the homophobes,
>>some of us actually know how to get results by educating
>>people to treat us fairly.
>
>Hey, Uncle Tom, er, Jack!...
>
If you really want a quintessential example of Uncle Tomism, you need
only look in this newsgroup at the various apologists for Clinton's past
record of homophobic inaction in his stint as governor of Arkansas.
Apparently, it's quite politically correct to condone homophobia so long
as it furthers the political agenda of the left.

Another example  with which I have first hand experience is in the case
of GLAAD/LA's (Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation/Los Angeles)
criticism of Oliver Stone's movie _JFK_. At the time we pointed out that
all the villains in the story were cast as gays whose lifestyle
consisted of an orgiastic party after another when they weren't
otherwise conspiring to assassinate the president. In fact, Stone even
conflated a couple of characters who in real life were straight and cast
them as gay in order to "simplify" the story line.  Meanwhile many of
the character flaws of DA Jim Garrison, portrayed by Stone as a white
knight in shining armor, were overlooked -- among which was that in real
life he was a notorious homophobe who personally ordered the New Orleans
police department to raid gay bars.

Naturally, we received much criticism for our denigration of this noble
effort to expose the monumental conspiracy. (Although GLAAD did not
specifically address the question of the conspiracy itself, I might add
that the story line had so many incompatible plot lines that the story
was not even internally consistent). Here too, the leftist Uncle Toms
were perfectly willing to condone homophobia when it suited their
agenda.

>--
>Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
>Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
>NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
>Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
>
        =Jack=
---

Jack B. Newsbaum             You have rights antecedent to all earthly
Library Information Systems  governments; rights that cannot be
University Research Library  repealed or restrained by human law.
ecl4jn2@mvs.oac.ucla.edu               - John Adams
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Text:  C0-2 and OR-9
From: Erik Karl Witte <ew2r+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: Thu,  5 Nov 1992 05:19:39 -0500 
Organization: Freshman, MCS general, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Colorado #2:

Be it Enacted by the People of the State of Colorado:

Article 2, of the Colorado Constitution is amended by the addition of Section
30, which shall state as follows:

NO PROTECTION STATUS BASED ON HOMOSEXUAL, LESBIAN, OR BISEXUAL ORIENTATION.
Neither the State of Colorado, through any of its branches or departments, nor
any of its agencies, political subdivisions, municipalities or school
districts, shall enact, adopt or enforce any statute, regulation, ordinance or
policy whereby homosexual, lesbian or bisexual orientation, conduct, practices
or relationships shall constitute or otherwise be the basis of, or entitle any
person or class of persons to have or claim any minority status, quota
preferences, protected status or claim of discrimination.  This Section of the
Constitution shall be in all respects self-executing.

---------------------------------------

Oregon #9:

        This state shall not recognize any categorical provision such as
``sexual preference,'' and similar phrases that includes homosexuality,
pedophilia, sadism or masochism.  Quotas, minority status, affirmative
action, or any similar concepts, shall not apply to these forms of
conduct, nor shall government promote these behaviors.

        State, regional, local governments and their properties and monies
shall not be used to promote, encourage or facilitate homosexuality,
pedophilia, sadism or masochism.

        State, regional and local governments and their departments,
agencies and other entities, including specifically the State Department
of Higher Education and the public schools, shall assist in setting a
standard for Oregon's youth that recognizes homosexuality, pedophilia,
sadism and masochism as abnormal, wrong, unnatural, and perverse and that
these behaviors are to be discouraged and avoided.

        It shall be considered that it is the intent of the people in
enacting this section that if any part thereof is held unconstitutional,
the remaining parts shall be held in force.

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: dz184361@prince.carleton.ca ( dz student 184361)
Subject: Queer Nation
Summary: request for info
Keywords: queer nation
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 05:17:28 GMT

Hi! I'd appreciate any current information on Queer Nation activities
in other cities. I am writing about the re-radicalization
of the gay movement with Ottawa as a model.

(Please ignore wierd chars.. my first attempt with strange editor!)

Suggested contacts and sources ??
thanks..

John MacMillan
Carleton University - Ottawa
Mass Comm/English 4th yr

awaadicali