From: cw21219@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Crying Freeman)
Subject: Re: SFII-CE Match-UPs and Ratings
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 06:54:11 GMT

inkblot@leland.Stanford.EDU (Thomas Calvin Cannon) writes:

>In article <Bz68GF.Gu5@news.cso.uiuc.edu> cw21219@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Crying Freeman) writes:
>>inkblot@leland.Stanford.EDU (Thomas Calvin Cannon) writes:
>>
>>>GUILE
>>>------
>>
>>>Toast.  Against Guile, the trap is every bit as effective as Ryu's is.  I 
>>>haven't found a Guile yet that's been able to get out, although it _is_
>>>possible to turn the trap into a stalemate.  All Guile has to do is duck the 
>>>high tigers, and do a forward 'turn kick' (neutral stick + forward) over the
>>>low tigers.
>>
>>Not quite. There is quite a bit of difference between the Ryu fireball
>>trap and the Sagat tiger trap.  First of all, Sagat has more delay 
>>after throwing his tiger than Ryu does after a fireball. In addition,
>>you can combo Sagat as Guile with a jumping forward kick combo if
>>you anticipate and jump a low tiger. 
>>

>Nope, sorry.  In a correctly executed firebird trap, Sagat is too far away
>to be comobed with a forward flip. Also, I'd be quite silly if I threw a
>firebird when I was in combo range.  The whole point of the trap is to keep
>Guile pinned _away_ from Sagat, to neutralize Guile's combos/flashkick.

OK, I know what you are saying. I guess my main difference in opinion
is that this isn't "technically" a trap. It's the same thing as the
Ryu/Ken/Dhalsim "keep away" technique... The Ryu "trap" I consider only
when you are totally pinned in the corner with fireballs bombing you
so it's practically impossible to move... This is not impossible to get
out of, just hard.

>>Sagat is also more susceptible to the Guile trap...
>>

>Why?  What does Sagat not have over Ryu/Ken in this situation (being trapped)?
>He doesn't have an invunerable DP, which means he can't DP through sonic 
>booms.  Oh well.  But he DOES have a quicker (and high) jump, making it easier
>to for me to jump over one your sonic booms.  Once I'm over that first one,
>it's your move.  Throw another sonic boom, and I'll jump forward, using my
>extra LONG leg to keep you from countering. (Ryu/Ken can get knocked back
>into the corner with a well placed standing fierce.)  If you block this attack,
>I land (out of the corner) and the trap is broken.  If you take your chances
>and go for a sac-throw, you risk getting stuck in a four hit combo with a 
>possible dizzy for yet another four hit combo.

However, he has a weaker counter throw, is slower in general, and his 
roundhouse kick isn't quick enough to sweep guile after his forward
kick delay.

>Face it, Sagat is just a Guile killer.  There's really nothing a Guile can
>do against a smart, defensive Sagat (deep TU required).  It's just one of
>those mathch-ups.....Sagat is similarly trashed by Bison.

I agree. Sagat is definitely a worse fight overall for Guile than Ryu.
He's got long range, high priority, and the Tiger Uppercut. The Tiger
Uppercut will usually catch Guile with an exchange even if Sagat mistimes
it slightly... I call this the Tiger shrug. It's annoying,
Sagat shrugs and the opponent's life drains away... :)


>>>---
>>>T. Cannon
>>>(who thinks Ken's SPAM against Sagat)
>>
>>
>>-- 
>> Kenneth C. Wang	| University Of Illinois Champaign-Urbana	
>> 			| Internet: c-wang@uiuc.edu			
>---
>T. Cannon

-- 
 Kenneth C. Wang	| University Of Illinois Champaign-Urbana	
 			| Internet: c-wang@uiuc.edu			
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2