HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: simon@dcs.warwick.ac.uk (Simon Clippingdale)
Subject: Re: You should be a Christian because (30 words max):
Organization: Department of Computer Science, Warwick University, England
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 18:27:06 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.070843.13073@mr.med.ge.com> bednarek@picard.med.ge.com (Dennis Bednarek Mfg 4-6971) writes:
>
> My guess is that Alan is one of the millions of poor souls that seems
> threatened by the fact that if he accepted God he would end up changing 
> his life.

Condescending wank. Just possibly Alan has reached a reasoned conclusion
that `God' is a delusion shared by a subset of the superstitious, in
which case I would be bound to agree with him. Why do you people always
insist on accusing those not infected by your personal superstition of
denying what they actually know to be The Truth, rather than learning
something about logic and reason, and addressing rational arguments
brought against your claims? Naaah, don't bother, I know why.

> Change is what he fears and his ignorance leads him to fear of the unknown.

Please substantiate this assertion, taking care in the process to produce
evidence which rules out the possibility that he may instead have arrived
at his position by some other route, and specifically by rational thought.

> If only his fear were of the eternal flames of hell perhaps he would open
> his mind up to reality.

That's a new .sig quote for me. A beauty. They'll love that on alt.atheism.

> dennis

Christmas Cheer / Bah Humbug (delete as applicable)

Simon
-- 
Simon Clippingdale                simon@dcs.warwick.ac.uk
Department of Computer Science    Tel (+44) 203 523296
University of Warwick             FAX (+44) 203 525714
Coventry CV4 7AL, U.K.
From: isc20059@nusunix1.nus.sg (KOH YEN LING)
Subject: Re: Heaven/Hell (was: Re: Perfect Love)
Organization: National University of Singapore
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Distribution: world,public
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 04:27:23 GMT

Publius (pub@riscee.pko.dec.com) wrote:
>In article <1992Dec16.001353.3965@nmsu.edu> sdoe@nmsu.edu (Stephen Doe) writes:
>>
>>  ... To me, the words
>>"separation from God" have a neutral connotation--maybe no pleasure,
>>but no pain either.
>
>No pain?  You should talk to some of those little children who are, for
>one reason or another, separated from their parents.  Ask them if
>they feel pain in their hearts.  Or, are you one of those who believe
>only the corporeal punishment causes pain and suffering?

I don't feel pain either.  But I do find aggressive Xtain "salesmen" a
real pain though.
>
>> ...  I exist in a state of separation from God right
>>now, and it does not pain me.
>
>Because you are having too much fun in this age.  But just wait until
>when Jesus comes back ...
>Look at those children on the play ground of a preschool.  They
>are having too much fun to even notice the absence of their parents.
>But when the day comes to a close, as some of them rejoice in the
>presence of their parents coming to pick them up, those who are still
>waiting will peek into the darkness outside and begin to wonder where
>their parents are, and some of them will probabily begin to sob ...

Parents probably having a great time somewhere without the kids' mindless
hollerings for once.

Anyway, your analogy didn't work.  The kids want to go home to daddy and
mommy, but daddy and mommy chose to abandon them and not tell them why.
Perhaps you're trying to tell me that your god could also choose to
abandon me even if I believed?  Hmmm...  


Alison


Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
From: drake+@cs.cmu.edu (Drake)
Subject: Re: What is Christianity
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 05:23:34 GMT

In article <1992Dec14.195110.4076@cs.cornell.edu> rodmoten@cs.cornell.edu (Roderick Moten) writes:

>I'm trying to find out the criteria people use to qualify someone as a
>Christian.

Generally, if somebody has the nerve to claim that they are a Christian,
I'll believe them.  In matters religious, you are what you say you are.
What's a "real" Christian?  Or a "real" Satanist?  Or a "real" <fill-in-
the-blank>?

					-- Drake

Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
From: ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik )
Subject: Re: God etc
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 04:02:12 GMT
Organization: (Evil Eye Creature from Mars, Inc.)
Followup-To: talk.religion.misc,alt.atheism,alt.pagan

In article <1992Dec15.150347.21138@doug.cae.wisc.edu>,
mccullou@cae.wisc.edu (Mark McCullough) wrote:
> I always have taken the stance that religion is about answering the questions
> that nothing else can answer at the time.  The purpose of religion, IMHO,
> has always been to solve all those little mysteries with some answer that
> may or may not be the right one, but it does give us some peace of mind.
> That is why it is the worst thing for a religion to happen if you start
> questioning the answers religion gives, because then you are rejecting what
> the religion seeks to provide, and it seizes to hold value or meaning.

It reminds me of the tradition of Santa Claus, small children like
the stories of a nice man that gives them presents once a year, 
and it gives them value to life. Unfortunately the truth is revealed
at a later stage.

Kent
-------------------
Kent Sandvik (UUCP: ....!apple!ksand; INTERNET: ksand@apple.com)
DISCLAIMER: Private activities on the Net.		
"Don't just do something!  Stand there!"  -- Mystery Science Theater 3000
From: bill@bessel.as.utexas.edu (William H. Jefferys)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Christian Holidays (was Christmas)
Date: 20 Dec 92 23:34:24 GMT
Organization: McDonald Observatory, University of Texas @ Austin

In article <1gnqpvINN94k@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> ses2@po.CWRU.Edu (S. E. Stansfield) writes:
#
#In a previous article, gmiller@worldbank.org (Gene C. Miller) says:
#
#>  Surely Dano meant to type the spring equinox rather than the spring
#>solstice. In any event, I haven't yet seen any sources on when the Passover
#>was tied to the first full moon after the vernal equinox. Because OT
#>Judaism was so emphatically male and profoundly anti-female as far as
#>deities were concerned (in life as well I gather. Some orthodox sects
#>apparently still practice very strong sexual segregation. Women are not
#>allowed to dance with the Torah, etc.), it is interesting to me that this
#>high and holy day should have been attached to a heavenly body commonly
#>identified as female. Perhaps it's the sibling of another little nugget:
#>Deborah, who prophesied while sitting under a palm tree and whose song is
#>among the oldest pieces of literature in the Old Testament.
#
#Actually, the Jewish calender is a Lunar one.  The months always start on
#(I believe) the new moon.  Despite the misogyny of much of judaism there is
#a strong feminine component, even in orthodox circles.  It is the women who
#light the candles on the eve of the sabbath.  

Technically, the Jewish calendar is a luni-solar calendar. The
months start on a (calculated) new moon (actually, first visibility of
the crescent, but that is now obsolete). However, the years may contain
12 or 13 months; an extra month (II Adar) is intercalated according
to a fixed schedule so that the start of the new Year is maintained
approximately in synchronization with the equinoxes.

See _Explanatory Supplement to the Astronomical Ephemeris_ for details.

Bill
From: dsoconne@quads.uchicago.edu (Daniel S OConnell)
Subject: Re: The Endless Topic
Reply-To: dsoconne@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 05:12:21 GMT

In article <1992Dec3.164934.22066@ee.gatech.edu> ldh@eedsp.gatech.edu (Lonnie D Harvel) writes:
>In article <1992Dec2.234255.22052@midway.uchicago.edu>, dsoconne@quads.uchicago.edu (Daniel S OConnell) writes:
>|> ldh@eedsp.gatech.edu (Lonnie D Harvel) asks:
>|> 
>|> >Where is modern religion now?
>|> 
>|> In what subject area? process theology? practical theology? liberation
>|> theology? Mainline views of fundamentalisms? Changing demographics
>|> of laity? etc.?
>|> 
>
>
>OK, I'll pick one.  How about practical theology.  First,
>what is it?  I'm pretty much a rank amateur when it comes
>to religion... :)

Okay, practical theology. Much like one might expect, the fundamental
questions here are: how does one put into "praxis" (i.e., practical
application), one's theory.

E.g., what's special about ministry? Does society need some unspecialized
professions? We "know" what lawyers and doctors do; what exactly do
ministers do? How does one prepare for the "doing"?

Given a set of ethical or moral perspectives, how does one practice
one's beliefs in daily life?

This would be but one perspective.

Dano
Xref: sparky talk.religion.misc:23937 alt.atheism:23763 alt.slack:3497
From: cxf12@po.CWRU.Edu (Christopher Fenton)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.atheism,alt.slack
Subject: Re: You should be a Christian because (30 words max):
Date: 16 Dec 1992 08:41:39 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc12.ins.cwru.edu




Article 15408 of alt.slack:
>Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.atheism,alt.slack
From: ivaliote@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Lotus )
Subject: Re: You should be a Christian because (30 words max):
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 23:40:00 GMT

>|> fab doo's...mindless self-inflicted guilt...and all the fab 
>|> glories of polyester... 
>|> 

>When was the last time you read Romans 8 and Galatians 5. 

Umm...why should he?  Why should I, for that matter?              

Matt I.



	O.K., Kids, I've done the required reading and nothing's
changed...Yawn... If you're going to flog yourself over a book,
make it one you like...  


	C. H. Fenton

-- 
Christopher H. Fenton       "I found that essence rare,
cxf12@po.cwru.edu               it's what I look for...
AIS  Computer Operations           I knew I'd get what I asked for..."
Case Western Reserve Univ.                         --- The Gang of 4
From: dsoconne@quads.uchicago.edu (Daniel S OConnell)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: On faith
Date: 17 Dec 92 03:23:12 GMT
Reply-To: dsoconne@midway.uchicago.edu
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

(Dave Davis) writes:

>>Paul Tillich would argue that the "faith" required for religion
>>(perhaps contrary to your assertion) is trans-rational, i.e., 
>>that it transcends both rationality and irrationality.
>
>I'm tempted to say that Tillich could write whatever he wanted, but
>he needed rationality on both ends to get it across. I'm tempted
>to say that, mind you, not that I actually would.  :-)

And I would say that if you >did< say that you would be
correct, of course; nonetheless, we still use language
(however imperfect) in an attempt to describe the
ineffable. 

>>Another point to consider is that not everything need be
>>subject to empirical tests in order to ascertain validity,
>>or need require rational justification.
>
>But some things do. Faith may be one of them.

Perhaps (like other fields), certain axioms (what they need
be, is of course open to question), must be assumed in order
to proceed at all. From those axioms, it may be fruitful to
continue (in a state of suspended disbelief) in order to see
if anything else useful arises.

>QOTD:
>
>'Those who claim to see the limits of human reason also claim,
> of course, to see beyond them.'
>		(roughly, from memory) 
>			Wittgenstein

Another:

Don't let religion get in the way of a religious experience. (?)

Dano
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.atheism
From: simon@dcs.warwick.ac.uk (Simon Clippingdale)
Subject: Re: Heaven/Hell (was: Re: Perfect Love)
Organization: Department of Computer Science, Warwick University, England
Distribution: world,public
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 20:05:23 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.001729.26444@microsoft.com> jenk@microsoft.com (Jen Kilmer) writes:
>
> You're right, Stephen. Separation, pain, and, let us not forget, finality.
> The choice we all make every day about whether to remain apart from God is
> rather important in that light, is it not?   As (I think) CS Lewis wrote
> once, "Could there not be a state of _having_been_ a human soul? And would
> this not incorporate separation, suffering, and finality?"

Wow. Action-packed stuff. Assumption of implied claim (existence of God),
*grrrrrrross* condescension toward atheists supposedly choosing daily to
"remain apart from God" despite there being no such choice to make from
the atheist standpoint, and argument from the `authority' of the dismal
CS Lewis all in one brief paragraph.

Can we have a point-scoring system as recently instituted on talk.origins
please Santa?

Christmas Cheer / Bah Humbug

Simon
-- 
Simon Clippingdale                simon@dcs.warwick.ac.uk
Department of Computer Science    Tel (+44) 203 523296
University of Warwick             FAX (+44) 203 525714
Coventry CV4 7AL, U.K.
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
From: bednarek@picard.med.ge.com (Dennis Bednarek Mfg 4-6971)
Subject: Re: You should be a Christian because (30 words max):
Organization: GE Medical Systems, Magnetic Resonance
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 07:08:43 GMT



Richard Pitts (rpitts@emperor.gatech.edu) wrote:
: [I don't have access to the alt groups.]
: 
: In article <1992Dec14.135939.1888@lut.ac.uk> A.J.Robinson@lut.ac.uk (Alan Robinson) writes:
: |In article <1992Dec11.140927.21058@cs.cornell.edu> rodmoten@cs.cornell.edu (Roderick Moten) writes:
: |>Answer:
: |>
: |>To be Christ like and obtain a relationship with the Father.
: |
: |But I don't want to be like Christ and I don't want a relationship
: |with his dad.

Well that can only be because you do not know him in the least amount.
If someone gives you a gift you are thankful.  Yet here you are saying
that you don't even want to know the individual that has given you
everything you have.  Jesus's Father (OUR FATHER) has given you life
and exesistance, besides that he gave us his most precious possession
his son so you would not have to bear an eternity lost.
: 
: What is there about either Jesus the Christ or the Father that you
: don't want to be like or even know?
: What does it require of you
: to let go of?

My guess is that Alan is one of the millions of poor souls that seems
threatened by the fact that if he accepted God he would end up changing 
his life.  Change is what he fears and his ignorance leads him to fear
of the unknown.  If only his fear were of the eternal flames of hell
perhaps he would open his mind up to reality.
: 
: For Christ and His Kingdom,
: Richard Pitts
: -- 
: rpitts@cerl.gatech.edu      |  Love and Worship God, the Creator of the Earth. 
:                           --|--   
: Pro-Life!              -|-  |  -|-    Come bow down in worship, let us kneel
: Pro-Responsibility!     |   |   |     before the Lord Our Maker.  Psalm 95:6 

dennis

--
---------------------------
| UP TIGHT                 | 
| OUT OF SIGHT             |
| EVERY THING IS ALL RIGHT | 
___________________________

The usual disclaimer of self
 and employer applies to all
 above comments.
#
From: emarsh@hernes-sun.Eng.Sun.COM (Eric Marsh)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: You should be a Christian because (30 words max):
Date: 14 Dec 1992 18:46:31 GMT
Organization: Sun
NNTP-Posting-Host: hernes-sun

In article <1992Dec11.190610.4653@cs.cornell.edu> rodmoten@cs.cornell.edu (Roderick Moten) writes:
>In article <lif4o7INN7ns@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>, emarsh@hernes-sun.Eng.Sun.COM (Eric Marsh) writes:
>|> I decided long ago that fear is insufficient cause to adopt a particular
>|> set of beliefs. Given this, it would logically follow that I should select
>|> option C, and its implication that I should not necessairly become a
>|> Christian.

>Students study all night long because they fear failing an exam.  Because of fear
>they adopt the belief that all nighters are necessary for academic success.

And what does that have to do with me?

Eric
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
From: mls@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (mike.siemon)
Subject: Re: What would you have said?
Organization: AT&T
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 04:50:17 GMT
Summary: history

In article <31055@nntp_server.ems.cdc.com> pwhite@ems.cdc.com writes:

>Wow! You shocked me with this one.
>Christians were fed to the lions with great regularity. Many were
>crucified and sawn in two and killed in other ways.

This is not terribly accurate, despite the vast industry of early
martyrologies.

There *was* some scapegoating of Christians under Nero (circa 60 A.D.)
and possily again under Domitian (circa 90).  There were laws on the
books against Christians, which were mostly irrelevant except in areas
like Asia Minor which had a lot of Christians.  Pliny the Younger wrote
to Trajan (early in the 2nd century) about being forced by local biases
to deal with some Christians; it's relevant that he was not previously
aware of anything substantive about these people.  It is also relevant
that at the same period a rhetorician like Justin could address letters
to the Emperor from a position of something like marginality rather
than outlawry.

The main periods of active suppression of Christianity were in the mid
3rd century (when Rome was going through a massive internal reworking
and a period of lousy "international" relations) and again 40-50 years
later in the succession to Diocletian.  There *was* quite a bit of
nastiness in those periods, especially the last.  But the common image
of "Christians to the lions" simply does not match reality for the
most part.

>
>However, the church continued to grow.
>|> 
>|> : He was on trial for his faith and being requested to recant.
>|> : RR: I will kill you if you don't recant.
>|> : C: You cannot, because my life is hidden with Christ in God.
>|> : 
>|> : RR: I will destroy all of your possessions.
>|> : C: You cannot, because I have a treasure in heaven which you cannot touch.
>|> : 
>|> : RR: I will kill all of your friends.
>|> : C: You cannot, because I have an Unseen Friend whom you cannot touch.
>|> 
>|> Sound to me like both sides are being unreasonably absolute in their
>|> points of view.  Is there a point to this post?
>Yes.
>|> 
>|> -- 
>|> > Jeff Young <
>|> > Personal   <               I'm not lost, I'm exploring.
>|> > opinions   <
>
>-- 
>Peter White
>disclaimer: None of what is written necessarily reflects 
>     			a view of my company.
>            His anger lasts only a moment, 
>			but his favor lasts a lifetime. Ps 30:5


-- 
Michael L. Siemon		   "Oh, stand, stand at the window,
					As the tears scald and start;
mls@panix.com			   You shall love your crooked neighbor
(please note address)			With your crooked heart."
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
From: bb099@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Adam Trent Phillips)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.atheism,alt.slack
Subject: Re: You should be a Christian because (30 words max):
Date: 11 Dec 1992 22:38:46 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc4.ins.cwru.edu


In article <1992Dec11.054012.10468@microsoft.com> 
jenk@microsoft.com (Jen Kilmer) writes:
|There is a God-shaped hole in every person, and without God, a person
|is empty.
 
 
 
	And I thought you where joking around. I know that there are nice
shaped holes on a transvestite (mouth & you guess the other). I know
that my johnsonn rod fills very nicley. Does this mean that god is
shaped like my johnsonn ?
 
:-)
 
-- 
A. TRENT PHILLIPS |" A mirror is a negative space with a frame and a place for
  also known as   | your face, it reveals what the rest of us see. It conceals
   WHITE  ROOK    | what you'd like you to be."--Blue Oyster Cult
-------bb099@cleveland.freenet.edu-----aa1439@freenet.lorain.oberlin.edu-------
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
From: gordons@netcom.com (Gordon Storga)
Subject: Re: Bible verse for the day
Organization: Gizmonic Institute - Home of the "Super G Burger"
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 22:22:51 GMT

<1992Dec15.140741.28409@ncsu.edu> storrs@eos.ncsu.edu (JERRY STORRS) writes:
>I recently discovered a passage that some took offense to.  I believe it fits
>many of the folks who attend this group.
>	  A fool finds no pleasure in understanding
>	    but delights in airing his own opinions.  (Prov. 18:2)
                                   ^^^
>I would also like to quote Psalm 133:1 for the benefit of those who can do
>nothing but flame.....
>				How good and pleasant it is 
>				   when brothers live in unity!
                                        ^^^^^^^^
>May the Lord Bless you and keep you............JLS

Unless you are a woman, then you are out of luck.


Gordon
-- 
The opinions expressed are my own, and not the beliefs or opinions
of whatever company you think I work for.  So there, thhhbbbt!
Message to Kodak:  Freedom for Dan Bredy.
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
From: prasanth@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Ravi K. Prasanth)
Subject: Re: In response to Jack Carroll on Hinduism?
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 21:01:20 GMT

In article <121wVB2w165w@kalki33>, kalki33!system@lakes.trenton.sc.us writes:
> prasanth@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Ravi K. Prasanth) writes:
> 
> > The concepts of negative karma, good karma, bad karma etc are
> > really alien to Vedic/Vedantic beliefs. They were (probably)
> > brought in to keep the average person interested/lead a "moral"
> > life.
> 
> Another lie, as anyone who actually reads Bhagavad-gita and
> Vedanta-sutra will see.
> 

Okay. So what is good karma ?

> Sincerely,
> Kalki Dasa
> 

RKP
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc