HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: nuge@ct.med.ge.com (James A. Nugent)
Subject: Re: Commandments of the Church
Organization: GE Medical Systems, Milwaukee, WI
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 92 02:28:24 GMT

In article <199212270706.AA01388@caritas.cotdazr.org> "Gordon C. Zaft"
<zaft@CARITAS.COTDAZR.ORG> writes:

> since as you pointed out the Church doesn't outright forbid mixed
> marriages, though it certainly does discourage them.

        As someone who works with engaged couples preparing to marry
in the Catholic Church, I must take issue with that statement. I
cannot speak for individual priests, but the Church (at least today's
Church) itself does _not_ discourage interfaith marriages. We do try
to make sure interfaith couples have explored together the issues
their faith differences are going to create for them, and ask them to
reflect on why they want a Catholic wedding.

        It's fair to say an interfaith couple has more "hurdles" in
front of them, but that's because there are more concerns due to the
faith differences. Can they each respect the other's faith
differences, and can they still share a spiritual journey? 

They certainly may marry if they are ready, though. We are currently
working with an interfaith couple who have a more solid spiritual
foundation than many of the purely Catholic couples we've seen.

        Your mileage may vary, mainly depending on the quality of the
priest you connect with. I've learned through the marriage ministry
NEVER to say "No priest would ever say / do <insert ridiculous
position / thing here>." Somewhere there's probably an exception.
--
Jim Nugent

nuge@ct.med.ge.com

nugentj@ct.med.ge.com
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Date:         Wed, 30 Dec 1992 12:10:32 EST
From:         DICK HAROLD <ITNEWS@INDYCMS.IUPUI.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Forwarded mail, and comments
              30 Dec 1992 09:29:13 EST from <MNHCC%CUNYVM.BITNET
              @VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>

On Wed, 30 Dec 1992 09:29:13 EST Marty Helgesen said:

-----some text deleted-----
>spouse.  An annulment does not dissolve a marriage, it says there
>never was a marriage.  If the statement that there never was a mar-
>riage is made in error, because of a lie, the marriage remains in
>effect.)  However, since other people are reading this, not just you,
>I want to make a few comments on annulments.  An annulment is not a
>moral judgment against the people involved.  In some cases the inval-
>idating impediment may not have been known, or the people who knew it
>may not have realized that it was an impediment.  Also, an annulment
>does not mean that the children of the putative marriage are illegit-
>imate.  I know that the old code of canon law, and I assume the new
>one is the same, recognized the legitimacy of children born of a
>marriage later found to be invalid.  I mention this because elsewhere
>I have read of people saying they would not seek annulments because
-----some text deleted-----

A quick question comes to mind...

What if...  Let us say that I married several years ago for the wrong
reasons, a clear issue, let us say, for an annulment.  But, let us say,
I do not want an annulment.  I now love my wife and want to continue
in the marriage living according to God's law (church law too)?

An Annulment would say that the marriage never existed in the first
place.  The only difference is that I, or my wife, never requested
the annulment.  Where does that put the existing relationship?  Let
us say there are no children just to make it simple.

By the way, my wife and I wanted to get married, are still married and will
stay married until...

|======================================================================|
|  DICK HAROLD    *   ITNEWS@INDYCMS.BITNET  *   IUPUI INDIANAPOLIS    |
|                *  ITNEWS@INDYCMS.IUPUI.EDU  *                        |
| - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -|
|        Always check your sources agian, and again, and again...      |
|======================================================================|
From: elendil@seashell.mintir.new-orleans.la.us (Edward J. Branley)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Subject: Re: Asylum (sanctuary)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 92 16:48:55 CST
Organization: Seashell Software

bdboyle@erenj.com (Bryan D. Boyle) writes:

> >Hmmm...bishops, priests, cardinals, even Jesuits do take vows of obedience.
> >That's pretty close to pledging fealty.
> >
> >Oh, yeah, and you can have a break, since you want one so bad.
>
> Thanks for the break, but I would not want to disappoint anyone...:-)
>
> Pretty close does not equal.  That's a little like being a little
> pregnant...
>

Hardly, Bryan.  If a Jesuit teaching at Georgetown disobeys his superiors, he
could find himself a missionary in Africa within 48 hours.  When you've got
that much control, you've received pledges of fealty.




|Edward J. Branley         elendil@mintir.new-orleans.la.us|
|Seashell Software, Metairie, LA            +1-504-455-5087|
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Date:         Sat, 26 Dec 1992 16:46:59 -0500
From:         mayo@CS.UTK.EDU
Subject:      "One Bread, One Body", Dec. 29

                    Tuesday, December 29, 1992
                            Thomas Becket

I John 2:3-11               Psalm 96              Luke 2:22-35

                   A CHRISTMAS PRESENT-ATION

"The couple brought Him up to Jerusalem so that He could be presented to the
 Lord." --Luke 2:22

Presentation Ministries publishes the book you are reading.  We're named after
our Lady of Presentation, whose feast is celebrated November 21.  We also have
a special place in our hearts for the presentation of Jesus.

When Jesus was presented in the temple, He was consecrated (Lk 2:23), His
parents were purified (Lk 2:22), and Simeon, Anna, and His parents were
enlightened (Lk 2:32).

As we begin this Christmas season, we may be called to re-consecrate our lives
to the Lord.  We don't want to be even the slightest bit lukewarm, or we will
nauseate Jesus (see Rv 3:16).

We may also need to be purified.  Have you defiled your Christmas by sin?
The Lord promises: "Though your sins be like scarlet, they may become as white
as snow" (Is 1:18).  Repent, confess, and be purified.

Furthermore, Jesus wants to be a "revealing Light" for us (Lk 2:32).  In His
light, we'll be able to see the future.  Like Mary, we may even be able to
see our future sufferings (Lk 2:35).  But most of all, we'll see Jesus ' love
as never before.  We "will be able to grasp fully, with all the holy ones,
the breadth and length and height and depth of Christ's love, and experience
this love." (Eph 3:18-19)

On this glorious Christmas day, open your Christmas present-ation.


Prayer:  Father, may I let You surprise me today.

Promise: "The darkness is over and the real light begins to shine." --I Jn 2:8

Praise:  Thomas Becket re-presented Christ as he forgave his murderers.
-----
From "One Bread, One Body", reproduced with permission.
Nihil Obstat: Rev. Edward J. Gratsch
Imprimatur:  +Most Rev. James H. Garland, V.G.
              Archdiocese of Cincinnati, August 17, 1992.
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center
Date: Wednesday, 30 Dec 1992 15:53:24 EST
From: Marty Helgesen <MNHCC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Subject: Re: Forwarded mail, and comments

If a marriage was invalid because of lack of free consent or lack of
proper intention it can easily be validated, or rectified, or whatever
the proper term is.  If it was invalid because of some impediment for
which a dispensation can be obtained, it can be validated after
obtaining the dispensation.  (It is my impression that, for pastoral
reasons, such dispensations generally are easy to obtain.)  Only if
the impediment was a matter of divine law (either natural law or
divine positive law) is it impossible to validate the marriage, unless
the circumstances have changed.  If, for example, a divorced person
enters an invalid "second" marriage, it cannot be validated unless
and until the divorced spouse dies.
-------
Marty Helgesen
Bitnet: mnhcc@cunyvm   Internet: mnhcc@cunyvm.cuny.edu

"Experience beats in vain upon a congenital progressive."
        --  C. S. Lewis
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
From: creps@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Steve Creps)
Subject: Re:      Re: Moral Activity (was Re: Asylum)
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 22:26:35 GMT

In article <921221143950.20211bd9@ASTRO.CS.HH.AB.COM> URSIC@ASTRO.CS.HH.AB.COM writes:
>From:         Steve Creps <creps@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU>
>>   Gee, I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm staying away from
>>J.J. unless I'm sure I've got my I.D.! 8-)
>
>Good job, Steve, I'd give this line a 10 on the humor scale:-)
>
>
>>    Jawohl, ve musst veed out ze inferiors for ze goot of ze State!
>
>This one, however, is actually an insult to anyone of German decent:-(

   Well, I'm a decent German, and I wasn't insulted 8-).

--Steve Gehringer-Klein-Hauersperger-Speck-...-Krebs

-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
Steve Creps, Indiana University
creps@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
From: elendil@seashell.mintir.new-orleans.la.us (Edward J. Branley)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Subject: Re: Participation prayers wanted
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 92 09:38:06 CST
Organization: Seashell Software

bdboyle@erenj.com (Bryan D. Boyle) writes:

> I would ask the group to pray for those of us that are participating as
> lay ministers of the various functions in the Mass over the Christmas
> celebration, that, through our activity (activities) and ministries,
> we bring Christ to the congregations we serve on this most joyous
> festival.
>
> (now, if I can just get rid of this hoarseness so I can at least sound
> healthy reading the readings....:-))
>
> Peace to all of you at this time!
>
> --
> Bryan D. Boyle     |Exxon doesn't pay me to voice their opinions...
> Senior Engineer    |Semper ubi sub ubi.
> bdboyle@erenj.com  |On a clear day, you can see forever on the Net...

When my dad was in the choir, I always used to pray that his voice didn't give
out after all of the practicing :-).  Will do, Bryan, and Merry Christmas.



|Edward J. Branley         elendil@mintir.new-orleans.la.us|
|Seashell Software, Metairie, LA            +1-504-455-5087|
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Date:         Mon, 21 Dec 1992 10:42:56 -0500
Reply-To:     esler@apollo.hp.com
From:         esler@APOLLO.HP.COM
Subject:      Marrying a divorcee

I have some questions about canon law as it applies to the situation
of a Catholic who wishes to marry a divorcee.  Can anyone tell me what
the Church law is regarding to the following situations:

A (never married) Catholic seeks to marry a divorcee who:

        1. Is also Catholic and whose previous marriage was in the
           Catholic Church.

        2. Is also Catholic and whose previous marriage was NOT in the
           Catholic Church.

        3. Is non-Catholic and whose previous marriage was in the
           Catholic Church.

        4. Is non-Catholic and whose previous marriage was NOT in the
           Catholic Church.

Thanks in advance, and have a blessed Christmas.
--
Kevin Esler //hewlett-packard/cso/stg/std/clo/mll (MA Language Lab)
esler@apollo.hp.com   (508) 436-5979
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Date:         Mon, 28 Dec 1992 09:14:48 -0700
From:         "John W. Woolley" <jww@EVOLVING.COM>
Subject:      Holy Innocents

On this feast of the Holy Innocents, I offer a sonnet I wrote many
years ago.


               A Sonnet for Holy Innocents


        For voiceless nameless murdered in the sleep
        before their first awaking, let my voice
        serve to say "I believe", the tears I weep
        for them be baptism, and my will's free choice
        be choice to them that had none.  Any merit
        of mine, evil suffered or good done,
        account as theirs.  Let us as one inherit --
        all dead in Adam -- the kingdom of thy Son.
        Save us together!  Fill my desperate need
        for purity by their pure mortal pain,
        and use what I have, Bread and Church and Creed,
        to raise and comfort these unkindly slain.
        Them and me housel in one single host,
        thou Mary's child, enfleshed by the Holy Ghost.


-- Fr. John Woolley
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Date:         Sat, 2 Jan 1993 13:10:41 -0500
From:         mayo@CS.UTK.EDU
Subject:      "One Bread, One Body", Jan 9

                    Saturday, January 9, 1993

I John 5:14-21              Psalm 149           John 3:22-30

                    REJOICING AND DECREASING

"He must increase, while I must decrease." --John 3:30

As we come to the last two days of the Christmas season, we are filled with
joy.  During Advent, we have waited, listening for the Lord (Jn 3:29).  In
the Christmas season, we have been "overjoyed to hear His voice" (Jn 3:29).
With John the Baptizer, we can say: "That is my joy, and it is complete"
(Jn 3:29).

John's joy at hearing Jesus' voice led him to make the resolution: "He (Jesus)
must increase, while I must decrease" (Jn 3:30).  We should make the same
resolution.  After being filled with joy this Christmas season, we should
decrease and resolve to devote this year and this life to increase Jesus in
our world.  If we decrease in wealth and power, all that matters is that
Jesus increase as His body the Church increases in holiness, numbers, and
outreach.  If we decrease in popularity, we rejoice as long as Jesus is
praised.  If we decrease in strength by spending ourselves in God's service,
we're happy to further Christ's kingdom.

Eventually Jesus will increase so much that He with the Father and the Spirit
will "be all in all" (I Cor 15:28), and we will decrease.  Then we'll be small
enough to come into God's kingdom through the narrow door (see Lk 12:24).


Prayer:  Father, may I joyfully die to myself (see Lk 9:23).

Promise: "We have this confidence in God:  that he hears us whenever we ask
          for anything according to His will." --I Jn 5:14

Praise:  Gail quit gambling after eighteen years of addiction. Jesus saved her.
-----
From "One Bread, One Body", reproduced with permission.
 Nihil Obstat: Rev. Edward J. Gratsch
 Imprimatur:  +Most Rev. James H. Garland, V.G.
               Archdiocese of Cincinnati, August 17, 1992.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
From: fr@compu.com (Fred Rump from home)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Subject: Re: contributions
Keywords: money
Date: 31 Dec 92 20:02:08 GMT
Organization: CompuData Inc.

elendil@mintir.new-orleans.la.us (Edward J. Branley) writes:

>Fred, my wife normally mails our check in.  I normally stick a dollar in on my
>own because that's all I've got in my wallet <g>.

That happens, but the exception is not the rule. Most people are still 
donating as folks were in the 50s. 


>I'd love to see some demographics on just who is giving the money.  In parishes
>that have schools, I'll bet you see increased donations in families as their
>children approach school age, plateau for the eight years the kid is in school,
>then the figure tapers off as the children leave the parish school for high
>school.

The wealthy typically don't donate as well except for special purpose projects 
when they can be depended upon to help. They need to see results and don't 
like to throw money into the bottomless pit.

The bulk of the money really comes from people who really sacrifice. They are 
hit at again and again. It is that silent middle class that struggles against 
income and property taxes while having to support charity by government and 
the Church. The school parents have it the toughest as they are expected to 
make a reasonable donation in order to earn the low tuition that most parishes 
have. 

Donations also increase by age as more disposable income becomes available.

Churches in Florida and other retirement communities are especially lucky to 
have access to an older population that seems to rally around the Church as a 
center of activity if it's available. Those churches that offer a sense of 
community, besides the religious aspect of becoming older and closer to the 
gates, have no real problem with funds. Communication is normally the key that 
ties people together. The standard in most areas of the country is a faceless 
mass at mass. Some churches have learned a little about marketing and 
communications. They are full and financially secure. Sadly that is not the 
norm as computers have yet to reach any real impact in the Catholic Church. 
Those that I know of that use the tools of technology are also bubbling places 
where the doors are always open and religion is not just the Sunday mass.

fred



>|Edward J. Branley         elendil@mintir.new-orleans.la.us|
>|Seashell Software, Metairie, LA            +1-504-455-5087|
-- 
W. Fred Rump 	office:	   fred@COMPU.COM     'mans feet have grown/so big 
26 Warren St.   home: fred@icdi10.compu.com  that he/forgets his littleness'
Beverly, NJ. 08010                          		Don Marquis 
609-386-6846    bang:uunet!cdin-1!icdi10!fr   
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Date:         Thu, 31 Dec 1992 14:47:58 CET
From:         ADAM BUDZIKOWSKI <BUDZIKAS@PLEARN.BITNET>

Dear Father who has a polish friends,

I some way deleted your mail where you were asking about e mail system in
Poland. It will be a pleasure for me to send you detailed information. Unfortu-
nately by deleting your mail I lost also your adress. Please help me sending
a new mail.

Faithfully yours,

Adam Budzikowski, M. D.
Dept. Clinical and Applied Physiology
Warsaw's School of Medicine
Warsaw, Poland
e mail BUDZIKAS\PLEARN.BITNET
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Apparently-To: anglican@american.edu, catholic@american.edu
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Date:         Wed, 23 Dec 1992 04:29:13 PST
From:         "John R. Covert 23-Dec-1992 0729" <covert@COVERT.ENET.DEC.COM>
Subject:      Pray on Christmas Day for this martyr for Christ

    a Filipino Christian missionary is scheduled to be executed in Saudi
    Arabia on Christmas Day.

    he was charged with preaching the gospel.
From: psyrobtw@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Robert Weiss)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Subject: Re: Operation Rescue
Date: 23 Dec 92 03:21:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <kom6VB2w165w@seashell.mintir.new-orleans.la.us>, elendil@seashell.mintir.new-orleans.la.us (Edward J. Branley) writes...

>Well, you can always build a kill file.  I stand by my statement.  Randall
>Terry and Operation Rescue are pursuing a criminal path to stop what they feel
>to be a crime.  This is a case where two wrongs do not make a right.

Due process according to Ed Branley:

You say that Terry is a criminal.
You say that RICO should be used against him.
You say that Terry is a racketeer.
You say that Terry is no better than the boss of an organized crime 
family.

All of this is unproven slander and libel. The fact that you stand by 
it is moot. The fact that you provide more slander for the rumor mill 
is evident. I will take what you further have to say with more than 
a grain...


=============================
Robert Weiss
psyrobtw@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu
From: 15942@brahms.udel.edu (Stephen Barr)
Subject: Re: Catholic theological competency
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 20:07:48 GMT

    Very good, Martha. But we should also keep in mind
that the Church teaches that some acts are intrinsically
immoral, and therefore are *always* wrong whetever 
their consequences. For example: the deliberate taking
of an innocent human life, adultery, fornication,
blasphemy,etc. That is, some rules are in fact absolute.
As you say, some acts may be moral or not depending on
circumstances, consequences, etc. For them, rules that
cover every case are hard to formulate. As St. Augustine
said "love and do what yoyu will". Or St, Paul:
"to the pure all things are pure". But though some
rules admit of exceptions, and Christian morality is more
than an outward adherence to rules, it is wrong to
go to the other extreme and say that all rules have
exceptions, or that we are not bound by rules. Steve.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
From: elendil@seashell.mintir.new-orleans.la.us (Edward J. Branley)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Subject: Re: "Pledges of fealty" and other points of ignorance (was Re: Asylu
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 08:36:41 CST
Organization: Seashell Software

norris@athena.mit.edu (Richard A Chonak) writes:

> In article <9Jm6VB1w165w@seashell.mintir.new-orleans.la.us>, elendil@seashell
>
> |> Hardly, Bryan.  If a Jesuit teaching at Georgetown disobeys his superiors,
> |> could find himself a missionary in Africa within 48 hours.  When you've go
> |> that much control, you've received pledges of fealty.
>
> The Jebbies aren't a good example; over the past twenty years, they've become
> of the more liberal orders.  It takes an awful lot for a Jesuit to suffer dis
> today.  In fact, it's been more common for a conservative Jesuit to suffer at
> liberal superiors than for a dissenting Jebbie to get his chain yanked.
>
> --RC

Well, then let's use the Brothers of the Sacred Heart for an example, then.
The original thought is still valid.



|Edward J. Branley         elendil@mintir.new-orleans.la.us|
|Seashell Software, Metairie, LA            +1-504-455-5087|
From: ivan@rec.msk.su (ivanov oleg petrovich)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
Subject: ??E-mail Addresses of Magellan, Trimble and other firms made GPS devices
Keywords: GPS devices, Trimble , Magellan
Date: 23 Dec 92 14:21:11 GMT
Reply-To: ivan@rec.msk.su
Organization: RECOM Association

Hello,

who has any experience in work with GPS devices of TRIMBLE,
MAGELLAN or other firms ?
I want ask some questions about  boards of these firms and
E-mail addresses of these firms are interesting for me.

Mary Christmas,
Thanks in advance,

-- 
Sincerely 
      Oleg Ivanov
RECOM Ltd
Moscow  |||  Email:   ivan@rec.msk.su             Fax: 007 (095) 196 1635
From: ivan@rec.msk.su (ivanov oleg petrovich)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
Subject: Help with E-mail addresses of Trimble, Magellan and other GPS- devices firms !!!
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 92 17:29:56 +0200
Distribution: world
Organization: RECOM Association
Reply-To: ivan@rec.msk.su
Keywords: NAVSTAR, Global Positioning System

Hello,
Happy New Year!
Does any one have used GPS devices of Magellan Corp , Trimble Navigation or
any other firms in differential mode? I search the best choice for system which must take position
must get position with accuracy about 1 meter. I am interesting in E-mail
addresses firm mentioned above too.
Any proposals will be welcome.
Send answers on my E-mail address, please.
Thanks in advance,

-- 
Sincerely 
      Oleg Ivanov
RECOM Ltd
Moscow  |||  Email:   ivan@rec.msk.su             Fax: 007 (095) 196 1635


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Date:         Mon, 21 Dec 1992 17:44:38 -0500
From:         Geri Anne Olson <OLSON@MACALSTR.BITNET>
Subject:      Away on a trip

  Hi.  I am on vacation until Dec. 28.  I will respond to your mail
  when I return.  Have a happy holiday season!

  Geri Olson
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