HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: csjan@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Jan Faires)
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
Subject: mysterious aches and pains
Date: 27 Jan 93 19:28:15 GMT
Organization: Educational Computing Network
NNTP-Posting-Host: uxa.ecn.bgu.edu

I've been using the weight machines and stationary bikes at a "Fit
for Life" gym for about two months now.  Also been adjusting my diet
more toward low-fat.  For the past month I've noticed a burning
sensation in my hip joints, sometimes spreading down the outside of
my thighs.  Knees also ache.  These pains are different from the
complaints made by my arm muscles, pecs, etc., which are due to being
used after so many years being allowed to flab.  I'm 50 -- do I just
expect and accept pain as part of aging?  Often I wake up in the
night and have to change position because pressure on a particular
joint hurts too much to sleep.  I've been taking an Ibuprofin at
night, thinking it might be the onset of arthritis; doesn't seem to
help much.

Has anyone else experienced something like this?  Do I need to go
see a doctor, or is this something "normal" for an old lady and will
it go away by itself eventually?

Question #2:  Does plantar fac-whatever that Pete said pains in
the heel and bottom of foor are get better all by itself?  My podiatrist
put me in Birkinstocks and/or running shoes, and I'm better, but
still notice some discomfort sometimes.

Getting older, while much better than any alternative that I'm aware
of, is *NOT* all it's cracked up to be!

Jan "Lord, I'm a mess!" Faires
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
From: hilp@hfglobe.intel.com (Robin Rosenbaum)
Subject: Re: Importance of water when dieting
Organization: Intel Corporation
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 17:32:19 GMT

>In article <1993Jan20.174043.28748@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
>Uh huh.  You should drink as much liquid as you like and no more.

I think this is the statement I disagree with.  How about, "as much
liquid as your body needs"--which I would assume isn't the same for
everybody.  I doubt it's necessarily the amount you're thirsty for,
either.

Most of us "like" more or less of various foods than we should eat,
regardless of hunger.  Why would the amount of water we *want* be
the exact amount we should drink?  Is thirst, unlike hunger, always
an accurate indicator of what your body needs?

Robin Hilp
rosenrob@ccm.hf.intel.com or hilp@hfglobe.intel.com
Opinions, attitudes, and beliefs expressed herein are mine and do not
represent those of my employer or associates.

Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
From: thiessen@emr1.emr.ca (Tracy Thiessen)
Subject: Re: temptations
Organization: Energy, Mines, and Resources, Ottawa
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 13:52:44 GMT

In article <1jphirINNf21@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> bek@po.CWRU.Edu (Brett E. Katz) writes:
>
> Hi. I'm new to this group, so I am sure this had been
>discussed before but I need some help!
>
> What do you do to avoid eating those calorie-laden
>goodies that can sabatoge even the best intentions?
>
I too am on Week 3 of WW...ain't so bad now, is it?

I've discovered two things that help me resist junk
food attacks.  One is keeping a huge bowl of raw\
vegetables in the fridge which I allow myself to eat
mindlessly in front of the TV, and the second is
WW Chocolate pudding (one milk exchange and tastes
pretty good).

Tracy 


Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
From: sschudt@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Susan E Schudt)
Subject: Here's my story + Deal-a-Meal Number
Organization: The Ohio State University
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 02:13:04 GMT


In article <Jan.22.16.19.42.1993.26501@gandalf.rutgers.edu> shagan@gandalf.rutg
ers.edu (Susan R. Hagan) writes:
>
>Once, my bookclub was selling Deal-A-Meal on its own, so I ordered
>it, but they sent my money back and said they had run out.  It
>hasn't been offered since.
>
>Good luck and let us know what you find out.
>
>
>--
>Susan R. Hagan (shagan@gandalf.rutgers.edu)
>Publications Coordinator - User Services
>Rutgers University Computing Services


I will take this chance to first thank the people who responded to me!

Someone suggested the tv shopping channels.  I ended up dialing 1-800-848-2929 
(I can't remember which shopping channel it was) and ordered it.  They are 
presently out of stock but said I would recieve it in a month at the latest.  
(Depending on when a new shipment comes in.  It could come in tomorrow!)  It 
was 19.75 + shipping for a total of $25.00 and they won't bill me until they 
send it.

I have a feeling I will be spending a lot of time with this group... Sigh.  I 
am, according to my calculations, 45 pounds overweight.  I do not look THAT 
overweight, due to my height (5'9.5").  I suppose I use that as an excuse at 
times.  My goal is 145.  I have finally realized that losing the weight is not 
enough.  I MUST change my eating habits and stop binging on chocolate-chip 
cookie dough ice cream ;) and eat for energy instead of satisfaction.  As most 
of you know, it's hard!  I have tried and succeeded at the Rotation Diet, only 
to go back to my old habits when the 3 weeks are over.  So, I have decided, why
not try the program invented by the man who has lost MUCHO weight nad looks 
GREAT - Richard Simmons!

Well, sorry if I have bored you, but getting support and telling my story is a 
lot cheaper on the internet than joining weight watchers! :)

See ya,
-- 
           Susan E. Schudt                    0 0
     Dept. of Chemical Engineering
      Goooooooooooooooooo  IRISH!           \_____/
             Win Twins!
From: dabay@morse.cns.vt.edu (Marian Dabay)
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
Subject: Re: ww exchanges?
Keywords: need exchange info
Date: 26 Jan 93 17:00:54 GMT
Organization: Virginia Tech, Blacksburg, VA

> second question - i notice that some of the ww food at the
> store is labeled with 'floater' rations instead of 'optional calories'.
> what is the exchange between the two?  if i have half a floater for 
> example, is this approx 50 optional calories?
> 
>

On the WW packaged foods, floaters are listed when there is less
than 1/2 a floater (milk, protein, bread, or fruit) of several 
different types.  For example, if the apple pie was made with:

  1 1/4 fruit 
  1 1/4 bread 
  1 teaspoon sugar

the listing would say:

  1 fruit
  1 bread
  1/2 floater (1/4 bread and 1/4 fruit)
  20 opt. calories (or however many is in a t. of sugar)

While you can count floaters as optional calories (in this case, 40
calories would be a good guess), you can't count optional calories
as floaters.  Does that make sense?  Using the example above, you
could count the 1/2 floater as 40 optional calories but you can't 
count the 20 calories as a 1/4 floater because sugar is not on any 
of the exchange lists.  WW started this last year, because a lot
of people didn't want to "waste" their optional calories on food they
could count as floaters.  


Marian Dabay
From: lol@cisco.com (Lol Grant)
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
Subject: Re: Weight Watchers vs. ?
Date: 26 Jan 93 03:49:56 GMT
Organization: Cisco Systems, Menlo Park, CA, USA

In article <Jan.12.11.15.10.1993.18070@gandalf.rutgers.edu> shagan@gandalf.rutgers.edu (Susan R. Hagan) writes:

>Yesterday, I only ate 3 protein exchanges, and I didn't realize this until
>10:30 pm.  My husband asked me if I had to make myself eat 2 exchanges 
>worth of protein before I went to bed.  I said that I didn't know what
>WW would say, but it seemed like a stupid idea to me to eat so much,
>so close to bedtime, when I wasnt' even hungry.  So I didn't.
>
>Does anyone know what you're supposed to do in this case?

One of the things I discovered *after* losing weight through weight
watchers and going on maintenance, was that if I only ate when I was
hungry, and stopped eating when I was no longer hungry, my weight
stayed stable and I don't have to count exchanges if I do this.

I also found that there are some foods that I can't stop eating once I
start, even though I know I'm not hungry, and that sometimes I eat
because I want entertainment/comfort etc., not food. This is a fairly
common experience.

So although I don't remember what the official party line about this
is supposed to be, it too strikes me as the height of stupidity to eat
when you aren't hungry, particularly on a regime where you're supposed
to be learning eating habits that will let you maintain a chosen
weight for a lifetime.

I suppose it's just possible (though unlikely) that over a long
period, if you ate less than the minimum prescribed protein exchanges
you could find you weren't getting enough protein, but protein
requirements vary so much from person to person and with activity
level that not feeling hungry is a much better guide to whether you
need the exchanges than slavishly following the charts.

Note however, that because of the factors I talked about in my second
paragraph, the opposite doesn't apply. Just because you think you're
hungry doesn't mean you're in danger of contracting beriberi....

Cheers,

__
Lol
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
From: annie@whoville.manassas.ibm.com ()
Subject: Re: ww exchanges?
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 12:13:22 GMT
Reply-To: kehleyr@vnet.ibm.com
Organization: IBM, Federal Systems Company
Keywords: need exchange info

In article <1jpva2INNdeh@jethro.Corp.Sun.COM>, elef@smarmy.Eng.Sun.COM (i'm the baby, gotta love me!) writes:
|> 
|> now.  second question - i notice that some of the ww food at the
|> store is labeled with 'floater' rations instead of 'optional calories'.
|> what is the exchange between the two?  if i have half a floater for 
|> example, is this approx 50 optional calories?
|> 

In week 3 of WW, you'll get "Personal Selections" - these used to 
be called floaters.

-- 
Brenda J. Molina                                     kehleyr@vnet.ibm.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
"What must I do to convince you people?"		 "Die."
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
From: jbyrd@chpc.utexas.edu (Jan Byrd)
Subject: Re: VLC Diets
Organization: Center for High Performance Computing, Univ. of Texas System
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 14:21:52 GMT

In article <bzimmerm.1.0@uwsuper.edu>, bzimmerm@uwsuper.edu (BARBARA J. ZIMMERMAN) writes:
|> Hi :) I am very new to this board and have a question. I recently started
|> a VLC liquid diet. I've been on the program for about three weeks and have
|> already lost nearly 20 lbs!!! I am feeling pretty good except for one thing.
|> I sometimes have a tingling sensation in my arms, fingers, legs and feet. I 
|> told my doctor about this but he didn't seem too concerned. It wouldn't 
|> bother me so much but it seems like my arms and legs want to fall asleep if
|> I even cross them for more than 10 SECONDS!! I am not exagerating!!!
|> any ideas about this? my doctor doesn't seem to be much help as I mentioned..
|> Also, I'd love to hear from people who've been on these kind of liquid
|> programs.. did you have any trouble staying at your goal weight? any tips
|> for me?? I still have quite a bit of weight to lose (about 85 lbs). My 
|> motivation is pretty good right now.. but any input would help me to stay
|> on the right track...
|> hope to hear from you all...

[I tried to reply directly to Barbara (because I think this comes across
as sounding too much like "medical advice"), but the mail bounced with 
"user unknown", so here it is for all to see.]

---------------------
I was on the Opti-Trim program for several months last year (Opti-Trim
is the little sister of Opti-Fast; you drink supplement 3 times a day
and then eat a Healthy Choice Dinner at night - a total of about 900 
calories/day).

After the first couple of weeks I started getting cramps (more like muscle
spasms) in my neck, hands, feet, etc.  The nurses and doctors in charge of
the program were of no help at all.  They had no idea what was causing them,
and just said they thought I might have to go off the program completely if 
it wasn't agreeing with me.

So after a couple more weeks of the spasms, I called my brother-in-law (an 
OB-GYN) who knows MY body very well, and he recommended 3 things, all 
available over-the-counter (he was a pharmacist before he went to medical 
school and still keeps up his pharmacy license):

  1.  SlowMag (it's timed-release magnesium tablets)
  2.  Amphogel (it's an antacid that absorbs excess phosphorous)
  3.  Replace my phosphorous-containing Calcium supplements with "FosFree"
      (phosphorous-free) calcium tablets

These cured me in a day.  I despised taking the Amphogel, so stopped 
doing that after a couple of weeks, and the cramps still didn't return.

I realize I'm equating your numbness and my spasms, but they sound very
similar to me.  It's worth a try to see if the same treatment will work 
for you.  Good luck.

Jan
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
From: mprisco@puma.cat.syr.edu ()
Subject: Re: Importance of water when dieting
Organization: Syracuse University
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 09:08:19 EST

In article <1993Jan20.174043.28748@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
>In article <1993Jan19.212209.17442@eagle.lerc.nasa.gov> xxjean@peridot.lerc.nasa.gov (Jeanetter Barnes) writes:
>>I just found this newsgroup and just in time because I am starting
>>my after-the-holidays diet and I need some support.  One thing that
>>I am still not quite sure about when it comes to dieting is the 
>>importance of the 8 - 10 glasses of water daily.  How does this
>>actually aid in weight loss?  Forgive me if this has been discussed already,
>>but I'm new to the group.
>
>Yes, it was "discussed" about 6-9 months ago.  I said it was an old wives'
>tale (which it is), and you wouldn't believe the pissing contest which
>followed.  There is absolutely _no_ evidence that drinking this amount of
>water is beneficial in losing weight.  It might keep some people's stomachs
>full (eating less) and encourage frequent walks to the bathroom (more
>exercise), but that's all.
>
>>Also, I'm finding it very difficult to drink this much water.
>
>Uh huh.  You should drink as much liquid as you like and no more.

>
>>Does anyone know of any ways to make drinking this much water easier?
>
>Yes, if it's bothersome for you, don't bother doing it.

I'd like to add that even though WW advocates 8 glasses (or whatever)
a day, I've had no problem with success their diet without worrying
about my water intake.

>
>-- 
>Steve Dyer
>dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer

Margot


--
--
"I think we're passing through here kind of fast,
  Did you think these tracks in the dust would last? "
                                         - David Crosby
From: jsl+@pitt.edu (John S Lundberg)
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
Subject: Re: Importance of water when dieting
Date: 26 Jan 93 20:40:14 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <C1H3uB.3rD@dale.cts.com> npm@dale.cts.com (Nancy Milligan) writes:
>When I was going to Nutri/System I always was real suspicious of some
>of the diet "facts" we were told.  The water thing was one....
>But anyway, I always took these "facts" with a very large grain of salt.
>Most of the people hired and trained by these weight-loss places, WW included,
>aren't experts (or even terribly well-informed lay-people) on metabolism
>and nutrition. 

IMHO, being an expert on metabolism and nutrition
isn't necessarily an advantage when trying to lose weight.  For one
thing, reading about all the studies that show the dismal results
obtained, typically, from dieting might be a bit discouraging.

I don't think it's necessary to understand anything
more than a few very simple "facts" about nutrition or metabolism
in order to lose weight.

What's there to know, after all?  Eat less fat.  Keep your caloric
intake <  what's considered a maintenance diet for someone in your
bodytype/age/gender category.  Exercise.  Accept that the whole
process takes time.  Don't have unrealistic "body image" expectations.

Where most people fail isn't in their knowledge but in the application
of the knowledge they do have.  Thus the people at Nutri/System might
be better suited as diet coaches if they were good motivators and
lousy nutritionists.  It wasn't ignorance of nutrition that led me
to binge in the past--I knew very well that what I was doing was a
Bad Thing.
-- 
John Lundberg
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Re: Importance of water when dieting
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 07:17:15 GMT

In article <C1H3uB.3rD@dale.cts.com> npm@dale.cts.com (Nancy Milligan) writes:
>When I was going to Nutri/System I always was real suspicious of some
>of the diet "facts" we were told.  The water thing was one.  The other
>one was when they said that alcohol is metabolised like a fat.  That
>sounded really weird to me because there is no fat in alcohol, it's
>a carbohydrate.   Later on I've read that alcohol is actually 7 calories
>per gram as opposed to 4 calories in a carbohydrate.  

This last is pretty hard to believe--I think it probably is much closer to
a carbohydrate.  However, there have been some studies which show that
ingesting alcohol has some definite effects on the body's ability to
burn fat, and long term, affects fat deposition (along with hormonal
influences.)  The male "beer belly" isn't completely misnamed.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet,misc.fitness,rec.fitness
From: jmk@cbnews.cb.att.com (joseph.m.knapp)
Subject: Re: Proform exercise machine
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 02:44:11 GMT

In article <C1HnKB.5C7@csn.org> pae@teal.csn.org (Phil Earnhardt) writes:
>I'd guess that any sort of treadmill is going to require more mainenance than
>simple resistance devices (bikes, rowers, Nordic Track, etc.). They certainly
>are going to take more electricity!

You're right about that -- Runner's World recommended that you need "at
least" a 1-1/2 horsepower motor to have enough oomph. The models you see
out there seem to be either 1-1/4 or 1-1/2. I suspect they don't go much
higher because the model I got (1-1/2 hp) needs to be on a 20-amp
dedicated circuit. Supposedly, it may work OK at first on a regular 15-amp
circuit, but will start popping the breaker as it gets older. I think it's
because the footstrike while running puts a lot of momentary stress on
the motor and the current peaks up. Anyway, at 746 watts per horsepower,
1.5 hp is over 1100 watts continuous.

Lest anyone feel like all this electricity would cost a lot of money, it
still works out to "only pennies a day." This announcement brought to
you by your local power company. :-)

---
Joe Knapp   jmk@cbvox.att.com
> And I'll bet that you have to go with a
>very high-end machine before you get something that's actually reliable.
>
>Finally, I don't fundamentally trust anything from a Weider company...
>
>--phil
>
From: redding@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Lee S. Redding)
Subject: Re: Need to Talk...
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 02:14:01 GMT

In article <1jkqe0INNoh7@umbc8.umbc.edu> clark@umbc.edu (Ms. Kathleen Clark) writes:
>
>  I have been watching talk shows for awhile now about how
>we seek food because of something that either happened to us
>as a child or something that we lacked in our childhood. I have
>thought about this for awhile, because I came from a great family
>and have never thought of any "bad things" that happened to me.
>My biggest problem is that I eat excessively (probably what some
>would call bingeing) whenever I am alone.  I still eat bad things
>when I am around others, but I have a lot more control when around
>other people.  When I am alone, I never seem to get full, and will

	I never thought of my being overweight in terms of my childhood,
except as far as genetics, but I did used to eat more alone than when
around other people.  I think it was more due to 'food guilt' than
anything.  When I started eating better (about a year and a half ago) 
I tried more to eat better than to eat less (previous attempts had left
me convinced I lacked the ability to consistently eat less).  I also 
managed to get rid of the food guilt, mainly by just deciding not to
feel guilty about things while I tried to get them in order, which 
I think helped me cut my overeating.  

	Anyway, my experience has been that it's easier and more
effective to try to eat better than to try to eat less (and I've heard a
lot of other people here say the same thing) so I'd start with that.  

	Hope this helps.  In any case, I enjoyed venting it ;-)  

		--Lee

Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
From: rfelix@netcom.com (Robbie Felix)
Subject: Re: how much fruit and veggies?
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 22:57:30 GMT

In article <1k6m2qINNho6@access.usask.ca> idg39@jester.usask.ca (Inez Gowsell) writes:

>
>Peter Brooks mentions eating *lots* of fruit and vegetables per week.  I
>like fruit much more than veggies, especially for snacking and because
>apples and pears seem easier to buy (if I forget to bring from home) than
>carrot sticks and celerey sticks.  
>
>After all that intro, the question is, How much of each is recommended?
>Can you eat lots of fruit and some vegetables, the other way around, or 
>is it supposed to be balanced?

Hi Inez,

Generally speaking, vegetables have a wide variety of nutrients,
sometimes some that are not available in fruit only. It is best to eat
a wide variety of foods and try to avoid focusing on one type of
foods.

Some of the things thathelp you eat more veggies might be:

1. Buy prepared veggies. Now that they are available clean, and in
   an edible state ( carrot sticks, celery sticks, etc) it sometimes
   makes them easier to deal with...

2. Try a LOT of the new fat-free salad dressing mixes. I *love* several.  

3. Use the fat-free salad dressings on HOT veggies ( steamed in the
   microwave) these over rice make an excellent meal! Also steamed
   veggies with soy or teriyaki sauce are really good.

4. Talk to yourself about trying one new thing every week! There are
   so many unusual veggies at produce markets and gourmet food
    stores... When I found arugula I thought I had died and gone to
    heaven! No one could have convinced me that salad could be so good!

5. Don't forget "dessert" veggies, ie squash that is served with a
   little maple syrup or honey and some cinnamon. Often these are the
   most nutrient rich veggies around! I often make "pumpkin pudding"
   using a pumpkin pie recipe with egg-substitute, sugar substitute (
   if you like) skim condensed milk and extra cinnamon and cloves ( no
   crust), everyone likes it and it is even suitable for a breakfast food!
 
6. Potatoes are a veggie and they are awesome baked and stuffed with
   fat-free chile, other stuffing or filled with "Healthy Choice"
   Campbell's "cream"soups ( or something similar) Actually, you can
   nuke a mixed bunch of diced veggies in the soup and pour it over
   the baked potatoes. Yum.

I am a vegetarian ( who wasn't a big fan of vegeatbles until a few
years ago!), so I have learned a lot of veggie tricks... Good luck to
you.

rf