HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: habura@vccnw10.its.rpi.edu (Andrea Marie Habura)
Subject: Re: Aluminum Armor & New Game
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 13:52:58 GMT

Ooh, Bertram! I love this game! Simon and I play it all the time!

Favorite items to bring:

--Antibiotics, and medicines in general. Clean out the ol' medicine cabinet.

--Junk jewelry. Plastic especially. It's pretty, and since it's rare, it'll
probably be valuable. 

--A solar-powered pocket calculator.

--Anything glass that isn't too fragile to carry. (Clear, colorless glass, 
while dirt-cheap now, wasn't easy to produce.)

--I agree; any spices I have with me. This also includes the Oriental 
foodstuffs like the dried lotus root.

Where? I want to be dropped in Boston, circa 1790. I know enough of the 
history (and what's not yet been invented) to a) not get institutionalized
and b) make enough money to live on.

You don't suppose I could discover penicillin? (says the microbiologist).

Alison MacDermot
*Ex Ungue Leonem*
From: glenda@grex.ann-arbor.mi.us (Glenda F. Andre')
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Persona's vs. Person's Ethnicity (was Re: Through a looking glass, darkly)
Date: 18 Dec 92 15:30:46 GMT
Organization: GREX Public Access Unix +1 313 761 3000

Tanwen a Teviotdale has a Welsh mother and a Scots father.

Glenda Andre is mostly Scots, some Irish, English and Amerind.  Maternal
grandfather is first generation American with family name of McKay (probably
was McKae in Scotland.  My sister has traced most of the family tree and
got maternal side back to the MacDonald.  We had great fun with our Pursivant
when he tried to talk us out of Scots personae and into Irish.  When he
couldn't succeed with it he conceded but told us that in no uncertain terms
could we use MacDonald as a name.  We countered with family history showing that
we could.  He shut up.  Neither of us chose to use MacDonald.
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: habura@vccnw10.its.rpi.edu (Andrea Marie Habura)
Subject: Re: Through a looking glass, darkly
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 13:43:51 GMT

Aleks writes that his SCA persona is associated with his real-world ancestry.

I, on the other hand, although I'm from the same Ukranian stock as Alex is
(and I make a mean holubtsi, too) took a Francophilic Scottish persona. 
The only reason that I can think of is that I've always liked Scotland.
However, my persona's name is really the only Scottish thing about her;
she's a slave to French fashion. (Hey...personae evolve, no?) 
If I had wanted to connect in with my bloodlines, I could have gone (in
addition to Ukranian) with English, Danish or Dutch. 

Alison MacDermot
*Ex Ungue Leonem*
From: Godfrey de Shipbrook <jlee@smylex.UUCP>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Inter-Library Loan (was Re: Heraldic references...)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 21:12:12 EST
Organization: Shipbrook Software  (Tampa, FL)

Greetings from Godfrey!

Lynn/Lin asks:
> 
>         Does YOUR library "discourage" ILL?
> 
>         Does it *refuse* you the service unless you can
>           demonstrate that it bears directly on a) your
>           job or b) your major, like my charming employer?
>           (Heaven forefend any of us might want to know
>           anything outside our major/need-to-know)

When I went to Central Connecticut State University, I never had any 
problem requesting an ILL.  Nor did I have any problems with the public 
libraries in Newington and New Britain.

Which is why Carolus' gripe about it being nearly impossible to get an 
inter-library loan really surprised me...

+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Net:  Jeff Lee / jlee@smylex.uucp / jlee%smylex.uucp@tscs.tscs.com     |
| SCA:  Lord Godfrey de Shipbrook / Wyvernwood, Trimaris                 |
|       Per pale azure and argent, a clarion counterchanged or and gules |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
              That man that hath a tongue, I say, is no man
              If with his tongue he cannot win a woman.
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Subject: Re: Aluminum Armour (was Re: HELP WANTED RE KINGDOM AWARDS)
Reply-To: whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 16:38:43 GMT

In article <462-JNEWS-2.1@smylex.UUCP> Godfrey de Shipbrook <jlee@smylex.UUCP> writes:
>Hal Ravn writes:
>> In article <DOCONNOR.92Dec16090456@potato.sedona.intel.com> doconnor@sedona.intel.com (Dennis O'Connor) writes:
>>>this
>>>armour will protect me in war, which is my primary reason for
>>>making it : the authenticity issue is secondary.
>> 
>> But should it be?
>
>Ideally, *both* issues could be addressed.  But if a choice *must* be made
>between safety and authenticity, I personally choose safety.

I agree wholeheartedly on this point.  However, the reason I asked the
question in response to that statement is that (first) safety has not
been an issue in the ongoing discussion.  No one is arguing that steel
is less safe or that aluminum is.  The question comes down to (I
think)--can one make equipment that meets safety requirements *and* be
made as authentic as practical?  The original issue was one of
*weight*, not safety.  In the comment I queried, note that the state
is 'protect me in war'.   *Safety* is not raised as an issue at all.
Duke Cariadoc has proposed a solution that meets all *three* points
the discussion has revolved around--hardened leather is authentic,
light and safe.

	--Hal

        Hal Ravn, Province of the Mists, West Kingdom
        Wilson H. Heydt, Jr.,  Albany, CA 94706,  510/524-8321 (home)
-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |            You!
510-823-5447                 |    Out of the Gene Pool!
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: brandon@euler.math.brown.edu (Joshua Brandon)
Subject: Re: Heraldic questions...
Organization: Brown University Mathematics Department
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 18:45:49 GMT

Carolus writes:
>
>"gyronny of six from canton or and azure, a catamount dormant
>argent"
>      ---Bounced because of conflict with a catmount on a
>         different field.
>
>         Plenty different by medieval standards.
>
>"azure, a martlet volant argent, in chief three mullets of four
>points or."
>  
>       ---Boounced for mundane conflict with Lang, of england.
>          Langs was a dove, and the thre mullets were as i recall
>          re[laced by crossed crosslets.
>
>          Plenty different by medieval standards.

Prove it.  I'm willing to look at documentation.

(Defining exactly what "plenty different" is supposed to mean would be a good
start.)

			---Simon
From: dgreen@thor (David Greenebaum)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Crown Tourney Requirements (was Re: Heraldic questions...)
Date: 15 Dec 1992 18:35:12 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.berkeley.edu

Greetings from Bjalfi!

Quoth Godfrey:
>Carolus Malvoix writes:
>> Just how many restrictions does Caid have on who may enter crown
>> tourney?
>> To put this into perspective, An Tir has only one, so far as I
>> know:
>> You and your designated consort must be members of the SCA.
>What, you don't have to be an authorised fighter who lives in An Tir?  :-)

I _think_ that in the West there is no residency requirement.  If
you're a visiting Trimarian and want to enter Western crown lists
and be pummeled by Westerners, you're welcome to do so.  (And they
call Carolingians chauvinists!!)

---------------------  Bjalfi Thordharson/College of St. Katherine/Province of
 |\  | |\  |\  |// |       the Mists/Principality of the Mists/West Kingdom
 | > | |\\ | \ |/  |   David Greenebaum/University of California/Berkeley, CA
 |<  | | \ |   |   |   dgreen@athena.berkeley.edu, dgreen@garnet.berkeley.edu
 | > | |   |   |   |
 |/  | |   |   |   |   "I make mistakes, but I am on the side of good -- by
---------------------  accident and happenchance." -- the Golux
From: 00mjstum@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu (Matthew J. Stum)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Too Light Blows (was Re: Face-thrust force/Picts)
Date: 16 Dec 92 21:55:41 GMT
Distribution: world, na, usa, local
Organization: Widget Enterprises

Dennis O'Connor writes:
> 
> 00mjstum@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu (Matthew J. Stum) writes:
> ] To me, SCA combat is truly _tournament_ combat... not _war_ combat.
> 
> To me, SCA tourneys are just one more way to practice for war.
> War fighting is a lot more fun : out there with your unit,
> immersed in the swirl and crush of armoured combat.

Let me comment... when I said "SCA combat" I did indeed mean both SCA
"tournaments" and SCA "wars".  I don't distinguish between the two.
Our "wars" are, after all, closer to early medieval tournaments than medieval
wars anyway... at least that's my understanding.  I could be wrong...

> Maybe this is at the root of some of the misunderstandings
> about armour I've been a party too : I armour for war,
> not for tourneys. And I armour to survive my part in war :
> carrying a shield as part of the wall, protecting the
> polearms and archers so that they can kill people. The
> blows I usually throw are aimed at unhooking polearms
> from my shield. 

So this raises another question:  Do people have a blow calibration for
one-on-one combat and another for melee combat?  I've never made a distinction
when I fight.  I thought we were all wearing leather (or is it mail?) armor
and open-faced helms... no matter who or what we're fighting?

How does one "armor to survive" a melee any more than one does for a
tournament?  Or by "survive" do you mean the fatigue factor rather?

> I like tourneys (and I'd never enter one without trying to win it
> if I could do so chivalrously, tho I have yet to). But look how 
> many more people turn out for wars than tourneys. I think most
> hard-suit participants are more war- than tourney-oriented.

True.  I was the same way when I started... I was mentally recreating a
medieval battle scene when I fought.  But the more I learn and _do_, the
more I look at SCA combat (all of it) as a medieval tournament activity.

If I took a _true_ war mentality, I'd be frightened of the results...
"It's me, or him.  I have to do anything to survive, no matter how dirty.
Unless, of course, he's ransomable... and then I'll leave him to someone
better suited to subdue him."

> Between war and tourneys are tavern-tourneys : I sprained my
> knee just in time to miss our latest one (I'd already made
> my SCA-legal mug even, complete with thrusting tips at each end)
> but I did watch it, and it seemed a blast !
> 
> --
> Dennis O'Connor			doconnor@sedona.intel.com

-- 
Matt Stum                    Gwydion ap Myrddin       Ball State University
00mjstum@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu   Shire of Afonlyn, MK     Muncie, IN  USA
From: raf@nyqrn.UUCP (Hugh Sider)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Aluminum Armor; Rattan Swords
Date: 18 Dec 92 21:16:16 GMT


 On aluminum armor:

     I am surprised that no one has mentioned the relationship
 between armor weight and heat injuries.  I strive for the
 lightest armor I can, not for a competetive advantage, but
 to avoid heatstroke.  This is a certain danger on the field
 in most of the known world, and one should armor to protect
 from it as best you can.
     Does my lighter armor give me a competetive advantage?  (It's
 leather, BTW, not aluminum.)  I doubt it does; not enough for
 any reasonably good fighter to worry about, anyway.

     Early in this thread, there was mention of helm weight.  I would
 caution against using high helm mass as a protection;  once you
 are out of balance, a heavy helm can put a significant strain on
 your neck.

 On Rattan sword construction:

     I'm not active these days, so I have to go back a bit to
 get data.  I made my first greatsword in the summer before
 Pennsic 10.  I fought an average of once a week during the summer
 months, and probably once a month during fall and winter - for the
 next seven years, mostly with that same sword.  I did spend a
 summer trying to improve my miserable shieldwork, and some time
 with polearm, two-sword and such, so that sword probably only
 saw combat about 3000 times.

     I have had people refuse to take my shots. I don't hit hard
 by any standards, and I've never been at the top of the ranks
 for skill, so sometimes I don't hit at all.

     I made this sword with good rattan, a layer (solid) of
 strapping tape, and a layer of Duct tape, which was removed and
 replaced when needed.   Do you folks really break these over each
 other?

-Hugh Sider (Rafael de la Aldea)
<jjmhome!nyqrn!raf@transfer.stratus.com>
Defense #1: Kill your enemy.  Dead enemies rarely hurt you.
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: atterlep@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Cardinal Ximenez)
Subject: Re: Heraldic questions...
Organization: National Association for the Disorganized
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 23:36:24 GMT

parr@acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr) writes:

>1) the BoD (brace yourselves) is an impediment to the SCA
>   and should be radically trimmed and concievably 
>   eliminated entirely.

  That may be true--but they are still the people who can tell the CoA what to
do.  It can't hurt to talk to them.

>2) I would rather speak to the populace than a bureaucrat,
>   which is what i do when I post here.

  OK, now you're insulting my friends as well as me.  The people on the BoD
aren't "bureaucrats," they're SCA members just like us (well, actually, more
experienced and careful than us.)  I know two of the people on the BoD 
personally--one is a local knight and a fierce defender of the right to have
fun (ask me about Sir Flamingo sometime...)  Another is a duke who helped hook
me on the SCA with his war stories.
  The BoD are people in the SCA.  They care about the SCA and enjoy it as much
as you or I, and have no interest in bogging it down.  Of course, since you've
never bothered to meet any of them, you wouldn't know this.

>3) The ombudsman, if not already aware of these problems 
>   from any number os sources (for example, Arval,
>   Kwelland Njal, and any number of others who's opinions
>   actually carry weight and prestige), certainly won't
>   be swayed by *my* letter.

  Actually, that isn't true.  The BoD reads letters, and pays attention to
them.  Also, the problem isn't persuading the BoD (at least one member has 
told me that the Board is as annoyed with the CoA as everyone else), but giving
them the ammunition to say, "this is what the populace wants."  A pile of
letters supporting, for example, the elimination of mundane conflict-checking,
would be a strong lever for the BoD to act.

>4) I intend to write such a letter, right after I fix
>   my armour, finish pellwork, cook dinner, clean my house,
>   do my christmas shopping, and have anervous breakdown.

  I don't buy that.  In the time it took you to write this, you could have
pounded out a short letter to the BoD and mailed it off.  Why don't you take
half and hour off of reading the Rialto and send a letter to the Board instead?
It would have a much greater effect.

		Alan Fairfax Aluricson, Fenris Herald
		Canton of the Riding of Hawkland Moor
		Barony of Northwoods, Midrealm
		atterlep@vela.acs.oakland.edu		**Magnitudo Vocis**
From: Beth.Appleton@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Beth Appleton)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Kids-period vs SCA
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 11:35:58

 TM> I strongly disagree with Gwenllian's last point.  Use of appropriately
 TM> cadenced arms by relatives is a wonderfully period practice.  In
 TM> period, a child would not have (in most cases) their own arms of
 TM> entirely new design.
     This is much more of a how-they-play-SCA than how families 
 -did-armory-in-period question.  If they wish to enter the SCA as a 
 unique individual, with their own interests and their own separate 
 persona, then they should design their own armory.  I see that as one 
 of the fun things an SCA person gets to do.  If, OTOH, they prefer 
 to derive their persona from their parents' interests, then by all 
 means, they should use the cadenced version of their parents' armory. 
     Now, one very period thing they *should* do is design their own 
 unique fieldless badge.  Certainly all the royal folks had their own 
 unique badge or ensign.  I
                           've never studied it in particular, so I 
 can't claim that this extends to all armigerous persons.  I find it 
 very likely, however.
     Please realize that this comes from my personal conviction that 
 designing your very own, unique armory is a fun thing, and a priveledge.       Gwenllian Cwmystwyth, Actuarius Pursuivant, Ansteorra

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
From: sinister@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Forge story
Date: 16 Dec 92 11:14:43 -0400
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

In article <BRANDON.92Dec15135107@euler.math.brown.edu>, brandon@euler.math.brown.edu (Joshua Brandon) writes:
> Thomas did write:
> 
> This weekend I spent Saturday at my forge.  In addition to teaching
> a young lad a bit about forging, I made a half dozen carving tools.
> [etc.]
> 
> Wow!  Keep gracing us with these descriptions, good sir, they are a delight
> unto the eyes!
> 
> 		---Simon

	I Most heartliy agree.  Though I am lacking the wherewithall to 
consruct a forge and such, it is truely wonderous to read of another's 
experiences in recreating period items with period techniques and equipment. 
I enjoy your posts of this kind immesnely.  As m'lord Simon say, pray
continue gracing us in this fashion!

		--Cosmano
From: uplink@cwis.unomaha.edu (Axel Rose)
Subject: Re: SCA geography (was: through a looking ...)
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 09:52:53 GMT

	Of course, the followup from my perspective is, "If we can have
people from non-European backgrounds, why can't we have personas from
fictional backgrounds?"

	I used to like the SCA, but I had this big problem with it: Why
couldn't I come in as the character I wanted to be?  A few of my friends
are this way too.  I originally wanted to come in as a character whose
name was not period (spawned out of too many AD&D gaming sessions), and
whose race was decidedly not human.  I was told, "NO."

	You have to understand.  For me, I'm doing good when I decide I
can get into the silly costumes and play the Kingdom game.  But when I'm
told that I can't do what I want to do, then it's time for me to start
making trouble as a way to protest.  And making trouble is what I, and
those previously mentioned friends, are very VERY good at.

	Aside from being a half-elven lord of swords, my close friend
Calvin Aristan wanted to enter as a ninja.  He was told no, the ninja
weren't period, he couldn't be one because he wasn't Asian, etc., etc.
Calvin's got the skills necessary, but because his "ninja" skills are
actually modern-day commando techniques, he was told he wasn't period.

	David Milner wanted to come in as another persona, the Silver
Prince.  I can understand why some who had worked very hard to gain the
actual SCA title of "Prince" would have felt angry at this newcomer's
claim to the title.  But I hope that group understood when, after they
told Dave to come up with a new name, and kicked him out when he didn't
change, he got them evicted from a local public facility during an
event.

	My point?  Maybe I don't have one.  Maybe I'm so frustrated at
the SCA and the Kingdom game that I came online to rant & rave and see
just how many people flame me.  (Go ahead, BTW: I haven't had a good
laugh since Drizzt and I went at it a while back.)  Maybe I'd like to 
know what makes the SCA so arrogant to push every other Medievalist
group out of business?  (I don't know whether this is true or not.)

	If you want to know who I am, I was a member of the Barony of
Lonely Tower for quite some time (although I never really understood
just quite what I had to do to get ahead in the SCA... no one would 
ever tell me).  I won't tell you my mundane name or my Society name,
just be satisfied with the name of the role I play now:


--
uplink
End of Line.
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Drifting Away...
From: vnend@nudity.UUCP (David W. James)
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 92 15:56:54 -0500
X-Mailer: Fernmail 1.1

tbarnes@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (thomas wrentmore barnes) writes:
> Probably. Where you have horses and cattle you NEED a shovel to shift
> the manure from the paddock to the cart to the fields.

Ah, you don't use shovels for that either.  That's what pitchforks
are for.

Kwellend-Njal
From: Godfrey de Shipbrook <jlee@smylex.UUCP>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Heraldic Questions.....  Forwarded  Reply
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 92 09:21:21 EST
Organization: Shipbrook Software  (Tampa, FL)

Greetings from Godfrey!

Cosmano posts a message from Simon:
> 
> Master Arval did an extraordinary job of being helpful during his term as
> Brigantia (EK principal herald), and he continues to do so as a consulting
> herald.  It absolutely fails to surprise me to see him mentioned as someone
> who improves the reputation of heralds.  Vivat!

Which is why the position he's taking in this discussion surprises me.
Unless, perhaps, he's acting as a devil's advocate...

+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Net:  Jeff Lee / jlee@smylex.uucp / jlee%smylex.uucp@tscs.tscs.com     |
| SCA:  Lord Godfrey de Shipbrook / Wyvernwood, Trimaris                 |
|       Per pale azure and argent, a clarion counterchanged or and gules |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
              That man that hath a tongue, I say, is no man
              If with his tongue he cannot win a woman.
From: doconnor@sedona.intel.com (Dennis O'Connor)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Heraldic references...
Date: 14 Dec 92 15:47:30
Organization: Intel i960(tm) Architecture
NNTP-Posting-Host: potato.intel.com
In-reply-to: parr@acs.ucalgary.ca's message of Mon, 14 Dec 92 19:05:27 GMT


parr@acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr) writes:
] Inter library loan is often "strongly discouraged" by librarians,
] who have limited budgets for such things, and don't want to see
] it wasted on something "frivolous".  Nor do I blame them.

I've heard that libraries unwilling to loan boks thru inter-library
loan are often willing to copy specifiy pages if you ask. They
might charge you for the copies.

Beyond that, for libraries funded by tax dollars, IMHO no reasonable
request should be turned down because someone thinks it's "frivolous" :
these libraries exist to serve the public, not some elite group of 
"serious" researchers. Either anyone should be able to get inter-library
loan, or no one should, or there should be a reasonable fee. The last
would be my preference, but it's a matter of your taste in government.


--
Dennis O'Connor			doconnor@sedona.intel.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: brandon@gauss.math.brown.edu (Joshua Brandon)
Subject: Re: Heraldic Questions.....  Forwarded  Reply
Organization: Brown University Mathematics Department
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 20:33:16 GMT

Godfrey de Shipbrook <jlee@smylex.UUCP> writeth:

>> Master Arval did an extraordinary job of being helpful during his term as
>> Brigantia (EK principal herald), and he continues to do so as a consulting
>> herald.  It absolutely fails to surprise me to see him mentioned as someone
>> who improves the reputation of heralds.  Vivat!

>Which is why the position he's taking in this discussion surprises me.
>Unless, perhaps, he's acting as a devil's advocate...

I think you mistake his position.  Arval has never said that the College of
Arms shouldn't help people design good armory, *if they want the help*.

			---Simon (willing helpee of Arval's!)


Newsgroups: rec.org.sca