From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.polish
Subject: Re: On Polish Anti-semitism
Date: 8 Oct 92 20:57:29 GMT
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Originator: news@nimaster

In article <1992Oct8.140658.2276@sarah.albany.edu> pawel@tethys.ph.albany.edu writes:
>In article <yT30RB1w165w@cybernet.cse.fau.edu>, waldo@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (Todd J. Dicker) writes:
>>pawel@tethys.ph.albany.edu writes:

>>>   To make my point clear: I have no doubts that "Protocols ..."
>>> are anti-Semitic, but selling, buying the book and reading it doesn't
>>> make me anti-Semitic.  Whow otherwise would I know what what
>>> is inside ?  How do you know ?  I do not think that to prohibit
>>> people from expressing their views is the best way to fight
>>> ideas.

>[...]

>>The Protocols are a lie, a forgery, and an attempt to stir up violent 
>>hatred of Jews.  They are not literary expression, they are a political 
>>tool used to promote the agenda of antisemitism.

>>If you sell, distribute, promote, or display them for any reason other 
>>than to expose them for what they are and to educate people about them, 
>>then you are engaging in a political act of antisemitism.

>>You claim that this person was "merely displaying them with other books" 
>>for sale.  You cannot 'merely display' the Protocols with other books in 
>>a store, they are not literature and are not a part of the public 
>>marketplace of ideas.

>  I am afraid that this is an expression of your personal sensitivity.

No, I think it's a fact.  Deliberate forgeries have a special status
among publications.  

>I doubt whether this kind of reasoning would make you the case in the US.

Are you suggesting that someone wants the book banned?  I haven't
heard anyone say that.  

We are distressing our horror and grief at a report that the book
is being sold, and therefore approved of, by a church, and that the
hierarchy of that church, which is usually very strict on doctrinal
matters, has seemingly voiced no objections to the sale.  

We want an explanation. 

>(Please remember that I do not argue about Protocols themselves).
>To give you an example: Mein Kampf was not published in Poland after WWII
>(until very recently, I believe).  At the same time I can find in on the
>display in the bookstores in US (even Jewish bookstores !!!).  It is

Big difference: _Mein Kampf_ is not a forgery.  Its contents are
what they purport to be, however vile those contents are.  Nobody
slandered Hitler by writing a book under his name -- he did that 
himself.

>not a pleasure for me to see the book being offered freely and I can
>see that it is not withut impact on US society (Duke's case).  At the

Indeed -- but that's freedom, as we agree.  

On the other hand, what would you say if you walked into your
local parish bookshop, and saw the book on sale there?  Wouldn't
you confront the priest and ask what was going on?  If the priest con-
tinued to display it among the tracts and Bibles, wouldn't you have a 
word with the nearest Monsignor?

>same time I respect the right of other people to express their ideas
>(however abominable they can be) and read whatever they want.

But do you find nothing wrong with certain people *distributing* 
certain books by their own choice, when they don't normally
distribute general literature?

>  In a sense the fact that after collaps of communist goverment in Poland
>the books mentioned are available again is a sign of return to democracy
>and freedom.  

When _Das Kapital_ and Elaine Pagels' _The Gnostic Gospels_ and books
on contraceptive technology are offered for sale in Polish churches, 
this comment will become relevant.  Not until then.  Until then, the
sale of the _Protocols_ is simply a sign that, in at least one church
in Warsaw, virulent, lying, disgusting anti-Semitism is practiced, and
that the diocese is either unwilling or unable to do anything about it. 

>I am afraid that this is simply a cost of freedom: you
>will find on the market ideas which you hate, but at the same time
>you have the right to oppose them freely.

Since when is the Catholic Church a free market of ideas????????

>PS.  Somehow it makes me feel funny to preach Americans what freedom
>means :-).

Seems funny that a Jew has to tell a (presumably) Catholic colleague
how his church works.  "Market of ideas," indeed!

Roger
>
>PS2. Since I posted my original text I returned to the text which initiated
>this discussion.  It turned out that the book was offered by the CHURCH
>bookstore and presumabely printed by Church offices (which also means
>that the book would have to bear the sign of Imprimatur - official
>Catholic censorship) - this is entirely different story. I do not think
>that Catholic Church should be involved in promoting this kind of books.
>Unfortunately Catholic Church is not a democratic institution and we
>don't have easy ways to impose our will on it.
>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish