HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Josh 'K' Hopkins)
Subject: Re: Pres Debate & military spending
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 17:39:16 GMT

gary@ke4zv.uucp (Gary Coffman) writes:

>Unfortunately, the aerospace industry is ill equipped to operate when
>separated from the government teat. There's little consumer demand for
>$800 toilet seats, or $120 million dollar ex-ballistic missiles.

[stuff deleted]

> A much reduced Boeing might survive on airliner
>sales, but have you looked at the airline industry lately? They aren't
>in a position to be buying a lot of airplanes.

Is it my imagination, or does Boeing have a multiyear backlog of aircracft 
orders?  I probably would have mentioned Boeing as the example of a company
that was doing fine, but I could be wrong.

>>When you have a $400 billion deficit and a $4 trillion debt, there is no 
>>peace dividend, just bills due.

>Actually the Federal government is in better shape than most consumers.
>They spend 35% of their income servicing the debt. How many of you
>spend less than 35% of your incomes on house notes, car notes, and
>consumer debt? The US government owes four times it's annual income.
>How many of you living in $200,000 houses and driving $40,000 cars
>can say you owe less?

I don't own a Lexus or an estate, and neither do any of the people on the net 
that I know.  It seems to me to be a little silly to compare the federal 
government to a particularly endebted group of people and then say the feds are
doing okay.  

-- 
Josh Hopkins                                          jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
	 The views expresed above do not necessarily reflect those of
ISDS, UIUC, NSS, IBM FSC, NCSA, NMSU, AIAA or the American Association for the
                      Advancement of Acronymphomaniacs
Xref: sparky talk.politics.space:1358 sci.astro:10474
From: gary@ke4zv.uucp (Gary Coffman)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.space,sci.astro
Subject: Re: Clinton and Space Funding
Date: 7 Oct 92 09:45:45 GMT
Reply-To: gary@ke4zv.UUCP (Gary Coffman)
Organization: Gannett Technologies Group

In article <3849@ra.nrl.navy.mil> wang@cedar.nrl.navy.mil writes:
>In article 15183@vax5.cit.cornell.edu, njzy@vax5.cit.cornell.edu (T. Joseph Lazio, Cornell University) writes:
>>In article <1992Sep30.055424.12501@ke4zv.uucp>,
>
>Gary, as a trivia question:  Each year the president submits a budget and Congress passes one.  In the last four years, how many times has the president's proposed deficit exceeded the one actually passed by Congress ?
>
>Think carefully, your reputation as a pundit depends on this!
>
>Answer:  Congress has passed a budget with a lower deficit than proposed by the President 4 years out of 4 !  That's right they cut government spending more than the President proposed!

Now for extra extra credit, how many times did actual spending exceed
the passed budget? Note the budget is a *guide* and actual appropriations
may vary.

Gary
From: David.Anderman@ofa123.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: talk.politics.space
Subject: Congressional candidate forum
Date: 14 Oct 92 08:46:12 GMT
X-Sender: newtout 0.02 Oct  1 1992

Inland Empire NSS Chapter Holds Congressional Candidates' Forum
 
  On Saturday, October 3, the Inland Empire Space Group, a chapter
of the National Space, hosted a forum on aerospace issues at the
Riverside Central Library in downtown Riverside. Attending the
forum were candidates for the 42nd and 43rd congressional
districts, or their representatives. 
  The Democratic candidate for the 43rd district, Mark Takano,
pushed for conversion of California's aerospace industry to
non-military applications, such as production of fuel cells and
electric cars. He did not consider civil space to be a major
component of this conversion process.
  The representative for Republican candidate Ken Calvert (R-43),
Bob Woolf, stated that the nation's security requires a
continuing need for a strong military. He also expressed support
for funding for NASA, although not in concrete numbers.
  Candidate Dick Rutan (R-42) declined to attend or send a
representative. 
  Congressman George Brown, a candidate for the 42nd district and
current Chair of the House Committee on Space, Science and
Technology, was unable to attend, but was represented by Temoc
Figueroa, his campaign Field Director. Mr. Figueroa did not
provide specifics during his discussion, except to restate Mr.
Brown's commitment to the eventual development of human colonies
in space. The timetable for these settlements would be subject
to today's stringent budget constraints. However, Mr. Brown's
office did provide specific answers to questions posed by the
Inland Empire space Group prior to the debate. Included in the
responses were support for the Space Exploration Initiative, HR
3848, the Competitiveness in Space Act, the Launch Service
Purchase Act, a positive resolution on U.S. use of former Soviet
space hardware, and commented that NASA should not be
responsible for development of the Delta Clipper.
  The Libertarian candidates in the 42nd and 43rd districts, Fritz
Ward and Gene Berkman agreed that NASA, as a government agency
should be abolished, and that private industry should take up
the slack from a drastically reduced Department of Defense.
  Some members of OASIS, the Los Angeles chapter of the National
Space Society, and the Inland Empire Space Group, will meet in
the Riverside area on Saturday, October 31, to participate in
the campaign for the 42nd district. For more information on this
event, or on the positions of these candidates, please contact
David Anderman at 714/524-1674.
 
 
 
 
 

--- Maximus 2.00
Newsgroups: talk.politics.space,sci.space
From: phoenix.Princeton.EDU!carlosn (Carlos G. Niederstrasser)
Subject: Pres Debate & military spending
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 21:07:21 GMT


Here is something which I think the space community should start pushing for  
very soon.

In yesterday's presidential debate all three candidates agreed that if we are  
to cut defense spending, we better start retraining and retooling so that money  
is not wasted and jobs are not lost.  Perot in partiuclar said that the  
conversion from military hardware should be to some other high technology... it  
is hard to convert from potato chips to computer chips in time of war  
(paraphrase)  Well, we all know (at least those of us who read these groups)  
that one of the technologies that is most closely related to the military is  
space.  It is time to get the word out.  We have to let the next administration  
know that one of the most logical (and probably easiest) transformations would  
be from military hardware to space hardware.  In fact many of the people  
working on one are working on the other

The possibilities are there... spy-technology to remote sensing, hypersonic  
research to civilian aircraft, etc.  All these seem painfully obvious, in fact  
almost too ovbious to be brought up.  But the fact is that it is not really  
happening, defense workers are loosing their jobs, and the space budget is  
going down.  Take a recent example, to save jobs Bush agreed to sell F15 to  
Saudi Arabia, a highly contraversial decision.  How about if to save those same  
jobs the same money had been used for a space program tha M-D might be involved  
in.  Some of the money goes to retraining, some to the actual project.  It  
sounds logical, but it is not being done.  

It is time to move, or we will loose our chance to rip the benefits of the much  
talked about 'peace dividend.'

--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
| Carlos G. Niederstrasser        |   It is difficult to say what   |
| Princeton Planetary Society     | is impossible; for the dream of |
|                                 | yesterday, is the hope of today |
|                                 |   and the reality of tomorrow   |
| carlosn@phoenix.princeton.edu   |---------------------------------|
| space@phoenix.princeton.edu     |    Ad Astra per Ardua Nostra    |
---------------------------------------------------------------------

-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------
| Carlos G. Niederstrasser        |   It is difficult to say what   |
| Princeton Planetary Society     | is impossible; for the dream of |
|                                 | yesterday, is the hope of today |
Newsgroups: talk.politics.space
From: gmarfoe@eng.auburn.edu (Gerald G. Marfoe)
Subject: V.P. debate - virtually no mention of space
Keywords: Quayle, "civil space"
Reply-To: gmarfoe@eng.auburn.edu
Organization: Auburn University Engineering
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 19:49:39 GMT

Well, was anybody else hoping that Gore and Quayle would use space exploration 
as a topic of debate? The only time that Dan Quayle mentioned civil space was
during the discussion on defense industry conversion, when he sounded pretty
hesitant about saying, "defense industries could be converted to ... civil ...
space." He didn't even mention that he was the chairman of the National Space 
Council!

Looks like space exploration gets ignored as usual when it comes down to 
discussing "important issues" in an election year.
---

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gerald G. Marfoe                    |"Mirabile visu. Mirabilia/Et itur ad astra
InterNet: gmarfoe@eng.auburn.edu    |... Suus cuique mos. Suum cuique.../
          ggmar@ducvax.auburn.edu   |Memento, terrigena./Memento, vita brevis."
          ggmar@hoshi.colorado.edu  |- "Afer Ventus", Enya, "Shepherd Moons"

Xref: sparky talk.politics.space:1371 sci.space:14511
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: DEMANDS PALESTINIAN HUNGER STRIKERS IN ISRAELI PRISONS
Date: 16 Oct 92 06:12:38 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <1992Oct15.225645.19873@ennews.eas.asu.edu> makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky) writes:
>
>	I am defintely not a cold blooded murderer.  And I may not even

But perhaps you support such people?

Justify their actions?

>	One thing is certain, however.  You certainly do have a lot of
>guts.  You have absolutely no fear of constantly showing how ignorant
>you are in public.  Will you do it again in another response?

Yes, we are all just ignorant and worthless human beings.  Let us bow
down and kiss the hands of our most esteemed, intelligent, and
humanitarian Israeli masters for enlightenment.

Anisa
From: jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk (JHenderson)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Serbia etc.
Date: 15 Oct 92 09:49:54 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

In article <Bw55y3.7r6@ddsw1.mcs.com> arf@ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) writes:
~
~While browsing through a seed catalog, I noticed that the nice folks
~who censor and control such things have changed the name of a very popular
~cultivated flower from Wandering Jew to Wandering Gyspy.
~
~Anybody have any idea why?

Simple enough. Not enough gypsies died in death camps to pay for even a 
little compassion, let alone to pay the rent on a brand new "homeland".


-- 
===Jeremy Henderson===jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk=          

"Telling people how to think doesn't work. They always have stupid
 ideas of their own."
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Alan Dershowitz on Bosnia
Date: 11 Oct 92 05:52:43 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <1992Oct6.133758.603@cs.brown.edu> dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) writes:
>
>I tend to agree with Dershowitz. What is happening in Bosnia today

Isn't that the reason why Arf calls you a Chutzpahnazi?  :-)

While I agree with what you, I see that you avoided my comments
completely as if didn't have any relevance:
 
	Maybe Alan is just focusing too much on one side to be able to clearly
see what the 'conflict' is really about, and how the daily massacres
and starvation of this certain religious minority is very similar to
the crimes and atrocities of Nazi Germany.

	We shouldn't compare on the same level, but we should not reduce
the severity of it either because it is not at the same level.

I agree with Arf's comments on the situation.  Aside from your own personal
feelings about him, he makes a good point:
 
 >>Note the nothing will or should.  He is telling us that, no matter how 
 terrible an atrocity is, we (for political reasons) should never draw the 
 comparison.   His motives are pathetically transparent.  And the 
 effectiveness can be measured by the massive amounts of aid we send to Israel 
 every year.
 
I think Arf is measuring the double-standards that Dershowitz uses, in
this paragraph.  It is as though Dershowitz is saying that because nothing
can be compared to the Holocaust (and even if it is not acceptable treatment
of other human beings), we should focus more on the injustices of the
Holocaust instead of current autrocities, like Bosnia.

When Dershowitz also used the plight of the Palestinians to justify Israel's
actions by saying, "sometimes it is done for crass political purposes, such as
when some Arabs compare Israel's relatively benign occupation of the West
Bank".  Relatively benign??  It sounds very much like Dershowitz is saying that
Palestinians have *no* right to cry out against the inhumanitarian actions by
Israel (and it goes beyond the "occupation of the West Bank") because of
Israel's right to exist - primarily because of the Holocaust itself (though
pro-Zionists have been active since the late 1800's) - and that Arabs who
suggest this are *really* anti-semitic because they do not support the
Zionist state.

Even if Dershowitz stated that the situation in Bosnia is "horrible", he did
not condemn it nor ask for a collective support of condemning it because it
does not measure up to the Holocaust.  And he adds, for emphasis, that one
of the reasons to end the conflict in Bosnia is "not only to prevent further
human rights violations in Yugoslavia, but to prevent their spread to other
parts of Europe and Arfica in which ethnic warfare endangers innocent
civilians". 

Anisa
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: rivk@ellis.uchicago.edu (nora gayle rivkis)
Subject: Re: Serbia etc.
Reply-To: rivk@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 03:48:50 GMT

In article <1992Oct11.213928.25355@julian.uwo.ca> arnaud@csd.uwo.ca (Arnaud Lallouet) writes:
>
>	While browsing through this newsgroup, I fell upon this pearl.
>
>In talk.politics.mideast #61007  dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) writes
>
>>
>>jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk (Jeremy Henderson) writes:
>>#dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) writes:
>>
>>	[ .... ]
>>
>>#Well there you go again, the mysterious elastic time-scale. The Jews have
>>#a right to settle in Israel because some Jews lived there 2000 years ago,
>>
>>I never said that. I don't believe there is such a thing as a "right
>>over a country". I don't believe the British have a "right" to be
>>in Britain, the Danes don't have a "right" to be in Denmark, etc. 
>>Israel was founded just like any other country was founded. Many
>>
>>	[ ... ]
>>Sorry to dissapoint you.
>>
>>-Danny Keren.
>
>Gee ! Is this the "wandering Jew syndrome" still at work ? Do you 
>found a country just the way you would pitch your tent while 
>camping outdoors ?

With a great deal more effort, yes you do. So does every other
nation. A state is a group of people with the strength and organ-
ization to take land and hold it, and who choose to do so. It has
nothing to do with being Jewish. Every country in the world was
founded that way.

>Arnaud 

	-Nora
-- 
"Light one candle for those who are suffering pain we learned so long ago..."

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: arf@ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Re: Serbia etc.
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 02:37:15 GMT
Organization: ddsw1.MCS.COM Contributor, Chicago, IL

In article <1992Oct12.005812.26665@cs.brown.edu> dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) writes:
>arnaud@csd.uwo.ca (Arnaud Lallouet) writes:
>
>#While browsing through this newsgroup, I fell upon this pearl.
>
>
>#Gee ! Is this the "wandering Jew syndrome" still at work ? Do you 
>#found a country just the way you would pitch your tent while 
>#camping outdoors ?
>
>Well, I spent 28 years of my life in Israel, and will most probably
>go back there. How long have you lived in Israel?

While browsing through a seed catalog, I noticed that the nice folks
who censor and control such things have changed the name of a very popular
cultivated flower from Wandering Jew to Wandering Gyspy.

Anybody have any idea why?

js
From: arens@ISI.EDU (Yigal Arens)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: US Teargas firm faces suit for West Bank deaths
Date: 8 Oct 92 00:15:43 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: USC/Information Sciences Institute

Forwarded from another mailing list:

/** mideast.action: 35.0 **/
** Topic: UNITED STATES: Teargas firm faces s **
** Written  9:25 pm  Sep 29, 1992 by pnmideast in cdp:mideast.action **

/* Written 12:05 am  Sep 29, 1992 by newsdesk in cdp:ips.englibrary */
/* ---------- "UNITED STATES: Teargas firm faces s" ---------- */
Copyright Inter Press Service 1992, all rights reserved.  Permission to re-
print within 7 days of original date only with permission from 'newsdesk'.

Title: UNITED STATES: Teargas firm faces suit for West Bank deaths

washington sep 25 (ips) -- manufacturers of a lethal tear gas used
by israeli troops in the occupied west bank must face trial in a
lawsuit brought by family members of eight palestinians killed by
contact with the gas, a u.s. federal court judge ruled friday.

in a landmark decision, judge william standish denied the
motion of federal laboratories of pennsylvania and its parent
company transtechnology of los angeles to dismiss the case on the
grounds that it raised a ''political'' question the court is not
competent to decide.

the suit was filed last december by the new york lawyers'
group, the centre for constitutional rights (ccr) on behalf of the
families of eight palestinian victims of cs gas produced by the
two companies.

it charged that the companies sold cs gas to israel despite
their knowledge that israel's use of their product had resulted in
several civilian deaths during the palestinian 'intifida' which
broke out in dec. 1987.

a number of palestinians reportedly asphyxiated after cs
canisters were thrown into their homes. despite this, the
companies continued selling the gas to israel, according to the
ccr.

''u.s. companies should be held liable when they knowingly
assist in the commission of gross human rights abuses, whether
those abuses occur in the u.s. or abroad,'' said ccr attorney and
university of pittsburgh law professor, jules lobel.

under standish's ruling, which was rendered in pittsburgh, the
case will now proceed to a new stage where the defendents are
obliged to respond to questions as to their knowledge of the use
to which the gas was being put in israel.

''the case is important not just for this company and these
victims, but for people all over the world who are injured by u.s.
products,'' beth stephens, a ccr attorney, told ips in a telephone
interview friday. (end/ips/ip/jl/yjc/92)

** End of text from cdp:mideast.action **
--
Yigal Arens
USC/ISI
arens@isi.edu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
Subject: Re: Serbia etc.
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 13:42:24 GMT

jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk (JHenderson) writes:
#dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) writes:

##Oh, Germy, you are becoming a nuisance. Quite a few posts on tpm have
#      ^^^^^
#          I think I can just about remember being upset when people made
#          fun of my name. That was in the first form at school. By the
#          time I entered the second form, I'd realised that it was
#          too childish to bother with, but hey, if it gives you pleasure,
#          go ahead. If you want, you can laugh at my hair, as well, `cos
#          I just had it cut.

Well, if you don't care about it, why do you yak about it so much?

##addressed the tragedy of what is happening in Bosnia, it was condemmned
##both by Israel and Jewish organizations outside of Israel. Furthermore,
##Israel, which is not a rich country, flew aid and doctors to help
##refugees in those areas.
##
##So what was the goal of your idiotic post?
#
#Obviously, to point out that those posting condemnations of the Serbian
#actions do not speak for the whole Jewish community, and to highlight
#the natural affinity of the proponents of "ethnic cleansin".

I see. So now *Jews* (in general) are 'proponents of "ethnic cleansin"'.
How nice. Like when you were asked what would you do if you woke up
and found that you are Israel's prime minister, you answered "I don't
know. What would I do if I woke up and saw that I transformed into
Hitler?".

But that is only one problem I have with your posters. I see this 
newsgroup as a good place to discuss things with people from other
countries, especially Arabs whose countries I can't visit, and
hopefully form a bond with them. When someone from a country which
has nothing to do with the middle east conflict wants to post, sure,
that's fine. But if his articles consist *only* of digging up
filth against the Jews and Israel, and contain highly insulting
descriptions of Jews, I get suspicious. Get it? So I am asking you
again: why do you post? Not a specific poster; in general. What
do you want to acheive?


-Danny Keren.
From: bx573@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Alan H. Stein)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: DEMANDS PALESTINIAN HUNGER STRIKERS IN ISRAELI PRISONS
Date: 15 Oct 1992 13:34:25 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: bx573@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Alan H. Stein)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, woody@castle.ed.ac.uk (I Woodrow) says:
>
>ALWAYS people talk about PALESTINIAN and ARAB terrorists.  OK I don't believe 
>in terrorising innocent civilians for political aims.  If anyone should be
>targetted it should be governments - THEY are the ones who make the decisions.
>Moses Bloggs in the street can't make decisions.
>
>ANYWAY what I am really writing to say is that no one ever mentions how the
>Jews went about securing their state.  Throwing grenades into any homes in
>their path without checking if there were innocent men women and CHILDREN
>inside.  'Israel' has a damned cheek to talk about TERRORISM!
>
Terrific propaganda, Woody.  Of course, as with so-much anti-Israel
propaganda, it's total fiction.
-- 
bx573@cleveland.freenet.edu----Alan H. Stein----stein@uconnvm.uconn.edu