From: basestu@bmerh691.bnr.ca (Jean Giblin)
Subject: Re: The Doctor is...
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Ottawa, Canada
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 92 20:55:13 GMT


There have been many suggestions and theories regarding the 
Doctor and Rassilon being the same person.  I have found them
interesting, but at least to my mind, misguided.

Most of the discussion seems to form around whether or not
there is a basis within the Doctor Who canon for such a theory.
This I find very strange, since I see a more basic problem with
such a suggestion.

Firstly, we know that the Doctor has (at least he professes
to have) no memory of being such a person.  Had he the memory
of Rassilon, his encounters with said entity would hardly have
been so tumultuous.

Secondly, the Doctor is a Time Lord, and regardless of what 
that means, we know that the Doctor regenerates his body once in
a while (To put it simply).

Thirdly, this regeneration process seems to change one's person-
ality somewhat.  I am sure that everyone would agree that the 
mannerisms of the first doctor were wildly different from those
of the seventh (and hopefully not last).  This is, I need not
say, best shown and taken advantage of, in the Five Doctors.

Now, considering that the Doctors memory, body and personality are
all different from those of Rassilons, I ask you -and I hate to
get philosophical here, but I must- what is your basis of identity
that you would say that theirs is one and the same?  


                      
While I am not a Time Lord myself, I do have _some_ foresight.  To
save time (and what is commonly known as bandwidth, I suppose,  
but do not get the idea that I know what it is) I will anticipate 
the requisite flame to my argument, and will answer it, thus
avoiding having multiple posts pointing out some basic and obvious
flaws in my posting.


In article <tmaster.122213@gallifrey> tmaster@gallifrey.gl (The Master) 
writes:
>In article <nok.133312@earth> nok@earth.ca (nok) writes:
>>Secondly, the Doctor is a Time Lord, and regardless of what
>>that means, we know that the Doctor regenerates his body once in
>>a while (in simple words of course).
>Hm..yes, this is true, but you ignore the fact that, while his
>body is changing superficially, it is still the same body. That means
[large argument towards body-orientied identity removed]

Yes, true.  However, it has _changed_ meaning that the identity has
changed as well.  This point is a bit slippery..shall we call it a draw?

>>Thirdly, this regeneration process seems to change one's person-
>>ality somewhat.  I am sure that everyone would agree that the
>>mannerisms of the first doctor were wildly different from that
>>of the seventh (and hopefully not last).  This is, I need not
>>say,
>Yes, you need not say.
>Certainly his personality has changed.  But take it from me (I know
>the bastard far better than you ever could) he always retains those 
>little annoyances about him..he's always so goody-goody, so 
>egocentric and just plain eccentric.  This of course leads us to believe
[short and vulgar argument that involves my parentage deleted]

Hm.  True, I had overlooked that.  (Had I but a chance to relive 
my saying that..ah well, what is done, is done..)  But nevertheless,
you must agree that those foibles that we (those who know and love him)
define him by, including those you mentioned, are not, and I repeat not,
evident in Rassilon.  Even if they were, it would be a silly system
of judgement, in a universe where brains may be exchanged between
bodies and personalities alter themselves, to base identity on
a set of personality foibles.  No, that which is the doctor does
indeed change (and that is what makes it so tragic each time it 
happens) and so Rassilon cannot be included in what makes him (the 
doctor) up.

>Finally, let me say that you are taking our argument out of context.
>Perhaps, were we to gather together and discuss it philosophically,
>we might find that the mind and body of Rassilon is not one and the
>same as that of the renegade doctor. _It_doesn't_matter_.  What matters
>is that if we trace what is Rassilon through time (and outside of time),
>he sooner or later becomes what we know as the doctor.
>Perhaps such a link is meaningless in terms of the morality of the
>doctor, or his outlook on life, or his purposes or his raison-d'etre,
>or whatever else you might find meaningful, in the context of
>_the_story_ it is of great importance.  Analyze it all you
>want, it is a very _vital_ to _us_ who are following the adventures
>of the doctor (albeit, in my case, for different reasons) because,
>after all, that is the reason we are watching the show in the first
>place, to see what, and Who the doctor is, and what happens to him.

 
AGREED!  But before I finish, might I suggest, that, to honor these
stories, instead of coming up with wild and complicated theories and
explanations for them, how about we just sit back and appreciate 
them instead?



nok
I am a traveller though all time and space,
To be where I have been.