From: jgacker@news.gsfc.nasa.gov (James G. Acker)
Subject: Re: Save the Planet and the Economy at the Same time!
Organization: Goddard Space Flight Center
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 14:40:31 GMT

(mjvande@pbhye.PacBell.COM) wrote:

: I am not talking about "awareness", but actions. I agree that a lot of
: HYPOCRITICAL pseudoenvironmentalists may live in the suburbs. Or maybe
: "ignorant", if you prefer. Suburban lifestyles are extremely damaging, in
: spite of recycling & conserving toothpaste.

	I'd be curious to know how much of the budget for The Nature
Conservancy or the Sierra Club (as examples) comes from hypocritical
pseudoenvironmentalists living in the suburbs.  Of course, they'd have
more to give if they weren't spending so much on their cars!

Me: -	As I've said before, the "suburban sprawl" phenomenon described in
: -"Edge City" (an insightful book) is the product of a LOT of factors.
: -Nobody thought about environmental degradation when they founded Evanston,
: -IL (an early suburb of Chicago).
:  
: But why add to the problem?

	The usefulness of proper political action (discussed by Barry
Schlesinger) is undoubtable.

: -: Me:  This really is a good idea.  Take more cash away from the middle
: -: -class so they are closer to the level of those living in the inner
: -: -cities.
: -:  
: -Vandeman: No, just to fix the environment.
: -
: -Me:  Your original statement (the letter) talked about social equity.
:  
: Nonsense. The environment was even in the title (& still is).

	See my previous post.  "restore social equity" was in the
opening paragraph.  Not that restoring some social equity is bad, either,
but it is part of your agenda.

Regarding hazardous weather commutes:
: -Me:  Ever try riding your bike on ice, or into the teeth of a 20-mph
: -headwind at -5 degrees C?  Try it in Minneapolis.
:  
: Then use an electric car, if you insist, although transit would be 
: warmer.
	Finally I get Doc Vandeman to admit that there are some places and
times when you can't ride a bike.  Whew.

: -Me:  A lot of people have to have a certain attire/dress for work.  ARTICLE
: -on alternative forms of commuting in D.C. pointed out that just having a
: -shower at the workplace would help.  Plus, have you ever seen how much
paperwork a legal secretary takes home?  Try carrying that briefcase 8 blocks.
:  
: In a backpack. How much can you need in 1 night?

	You obviously haven't dated any legal secretaries (chuckle).  I have.

: -Me:  Having children is a lifestyle choice that heavily weights
: -the location of a home.  See previous posts for more insight.
:  
: And heavily damages the environment, in most cases, especially in the US.

	You must know that I agree with you on this.  (Children in the
U.S. degrade the environment more than children in Third World countries.
A lot more.)

The problem is (see Japan as a PRIME example), too few children and an
aging population presents a different set of societal problems.  This is
a new direction from the gas tax question, but represents another valid
issue.

: -Me:  Didn't answer the whole question, but that's O.K.  I'm healthy
: -and I rarely see a doctor, so it doesn't affect me much.  For parents
: -with children, it's a MASSIVE consideration, one in which lack of
: -proximity can devour huge chunks of time.  Kids get sick a lot.

: It's hypocritical to say you need a car for children, when cars are so
: dangerous (in numerous ways) for children!

	Ask some parents.  A temperature of 104 degrees F is damn dangerous,
too.

: -Me:  That's a big difference.  And the time vs. $$ vs. environment question
: -is still one of the main reasons so many people drive cars.  I'd be willing
: -to double my percentage, but not much more than that.  (If I could read
: -while doubling, that'd be better.  Can't read on a bike.)

: Yes, let me know when you work that one out. I would live to read while
: biking.

	You missed my last point.  It's possible that I could double
the amount of time I devote to transit -- and I'd be willing to, but not
much more than that -- but some of my choices would still not allow me
to read, so my "transit time" would be less useful than my 20-minute ride
now, when I get the radio news summary.

	Cordially,

	Jim Acker
	jgacker@neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov