From: dcrosgr@uoft02.utoledo.edu
Newsgroups: talk.rape
Subject: Re: Clarifications on Rape in any form ...
Date: 25 Jul 92 12:35:37 EST
Organization: University of Toledo, Computer Services

In article <1992Jul24.161815.26091@brtph560.bnr.ca>, kimmyd@bnr.ca (Kimmy Posey P920) writes:

> 
> As for innocent people being wrongly punished for rape (or murder or robbery
> or anything else) I must quote the immortal words of Mr. Spock:
> 
>         "The needs of the many outweight those of the few or the one"

I believe the top quote of the next wovie was "The needs of the one outweighed
the needs of the many."


> DIffering decreesof rape ???  What a thoroughly obsurd idea !!!  No means
> no.  THAT'S IT !  PERIOD !  There is no aggrievating circumstance that lessens
> the wrongness of rape.  I don't care what some sap-liberal-lawmaker says !

The trouble with what you advocating is it encourages a person to, while
committing a crime, take it to the maximum. The reason we have additional
time for crimes where is firearms or violence is ised is that we want to
encourage people to co the least amount of harm in their actions. If someone
can get away with what they want (money, rape, speeding) and have a choice
between risking penalty X, or doing more harm to society and receiving
five times penalty X, a certain percentage will opt for the less risks.

That benifits everyone, as their is no 'might as well do it all' attitude.

Let me ask you five questions:

1. Is a man who gets a woman intoxicated till she passes out, and then has sex
with her a rapist?

2. If he had held her down, knife to her throat, and sodomized her repeteadly
while she was conscious, would she have suffered more trauma by the attack then
if she had been unconscious from driniking?

3. If she would have suffered less from the alcohol induced attack than from
the knife induced attack, isn't the knife scenerio more reprehensible, and
harmful to her AND society?

4. Isn't there a chance that the non-violent scenerio might not have been a
rape in the eyes of the male who got her drunk?

5. As it is possible his mens rea was not one of rape, shouldn't he be punished
less than the rapist who goes out HOPING to hurt someone physically and
emotionally?


> 
>  Expert:  One who possesses the vast majority of all knowledge on a subject. 
> 
> There is no such person with regard to the human mind this side of God.

Yes, but sadly, God does not teach at any Universities I have heard of, or
written any books on the psychology of rapists.

As such, we have to muddle through this on our own.

> 
> Geez I'm sick of this.  I didn't mean to spark the biggest debate since
> ROE vs. WADE, so unless anyone violently objects I hereby surrender to over-
> welmingly superior forces.  I just think that this group should be a place
> for victims to be comforted and supported by people who can empathize with
> what they feel.  People who are outraged by the way our society treats the
> entire subject of rape and want to do everything in their power to change it.
> Again, if I have offended anyone I deeply apologize.  Especially if I have
> offended someone on whom this terrible tragedy has fallen.

Surrendering to superior forces is not the way for any of us to proceede. We
all must go through the process of having our iluusions on subjects shattered,
and our opinions changed as society gradually learns more and more.

With the exception of me, after a few salvos have been exchanged between me and
someone else, you will not find many people here lacking in sympathy. However,
part of the stated purpose of this group is the prevention of rape. In order to
do that, it must be understood. That means dialogue and conflicting opinions.

DC