HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jefferis@manas.engr.widener.edu (Raymond P Jefferis)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: More New Year's Wishes (Ray Jefferis)
Date: 23 Dec 92 21:09:40 GMT
Organization: A poorly-installed InterNetNews site
NNTP-Posting-Host: engr.widener.edu

- a high quality multilevel user documentation including (with examples):
  all aspects of NeXTstep use
  all aspects of Mach use
  all aspects of DSP use
  all aspects of hardware (tech. ref. manual)

- a sensible upgrade pathway (not all over the desk in little boxes)
  from single-processor to multiuple-processors (20 - 2000 MIPS !)
  from single hard disk to multiple with CD ROM and optical read/write
  from basic modem/fax to ISDN
  from 56001 (56002 ?) DSP to full DSP-supported data acquisition

and, for a real thrill:

- a constructive and supportive attitude on the part of NeXT
  toward answering general questions (e-mail address for Q's)
  toward engineering applications (it really is a white-collar field)
  toward fixing documentation and other deficiencies

Holiday Greetings,
Ray
jefferis@engr.widener.edu (NeXT mail enjoyed)

      
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: vesper@kong.gsfc.nasa.gov (Greg Vesper - RMS)
Subject: Re: 100 Mips Intel NeXT (processor comparison)
Reply-To: vesper@kong.gsfc.nasa.gov
Organization: Goddard Space Flight Center
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 92 19:22:38 GMT

> 
> A little commentary....
> 

Your commentary is out of date.  Look at the NEW new HP's. ie the 735 and 755.  
They beat the alpha's, and at only 99 MHZ - alpha is good, but PA RISC is  
better..

-Greg.
--
Gregory W. Vesper, SEWP BOWL, Goddard Space Flight Center
      __|__        email: vesper@sewp.nasa.gov
        |          Phone: 301-286-1478
        |          FAX:   301-286-4627
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu (Garance A. Drosehn)
Subject: Re: Insults (was: Re: standardizing NeXTSTEP)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 04:28:25 GMT

edwardj@microsoft.com (Edward Jung) writes:
> Robert Alexander Wyatt writes:
> >However...if I am not mistaken, was it not Bill Gates who initiated
> >the war between MicroSoft and NeXT?  From what I understand, Jobs
> >wanted MicroSoft to port software to NeXT, but Gates flat out
> >refused...in fact, didn't Gates make some ridiculous comment to the
> >effect that he would rather piss on the machine then develop for
> >it?...
> 
> I find it difficult to believe that people think there is a "war"
> between Microsoft and NeXT. There were offers and counter-offers
> from both sides over the period of 1989-1991; I was personally
> involved in some of these.

I agree with most of what Edward went on to say (which I'm not quoting,  
since I agree with it...  :-), but it seems to me that it should be easy to  
understand why people might think there's a "war" between the companies.  To  
most people, "Microsoft" is Bill Gates, and "NeXT" is Steve Jobs.  Thus,  
when Bill Gates says he'd rather piss on a NeXT than develop for it (or  
whatever the quote was), everyone is bound to get the impression that these  
companies are at odds with each other.  Seems to me that Steve has said some  
sarcastic comments about Microsoft too, though I can't remember any off the  
top of my head.

All the more level-headed business deliberations that go on between the  
companies are kept from the public view (and they pretty much have to be  
until an agreement is reached).  Thus, all the public sees is the sparks  
flying.  It's no suprise that people think the companies might be at war...

> It is quite amazing how often the failure of business deals can be
> blown out of proportion and become out-and-out personal vendettas in
> the eyes of the public. But it makes for more interesting reading, no?

It's usually the brazen public comments by the company leaders who get  
things buzzing.  It's not some low-key comment that the two companies didn't  
reach an agreement on something.  Again, it's not amazing that everyone  
makes a big deal out of such comments.

--
Garance Alistair Drosehn     =     gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu
ITS Systems Programmer            (handles NeXT-type mail)
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute;           Troy NY    USA
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: alberto@parsec.mixcom.com (Manuel Alberto Ricart)
Subject: Re: Infoworld Review:  "NextStep [sic] 3.0 crosses multiple platforms"
Organization: Is the act or process of organizing or of being organized.
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 23:12:51 GMT

[Discussion of 8MB NeXTstation deleted]

>Wrong. It will get you somewhere, albeit slowly.
>Before NS3.0, the slab with 8Mb RAM was considered the minimum configuration,
>and NeXT was encouraging developers to arrange it so their apps would run
>on such.  The only way I knew that I would need a RAM upgrade, prior to
>having installed NS3.0 on my system, was the chatter on the net that has 
>been going on since NS was in pre-release.  I couldn't find anything in my
>release docs saying I needed more RAM.  If I missed it, I guess NeXT didn't
>think it was so important, lest they would have put the announcement in
>a more conspicuous location.
>If the reviewer was unaware of a necessary memory upgrade, it was probably
>because he wasn't keeping up with net chatter.
>
>But don't get me wrong -- the 8Mb RAM NS3.0 performance stinks -- it can 
>take 10-15 seconds to scroll in WorkSpace Manager; I can't use LaunchPad
>because it's too taxing; I've had to curb my natural inclination to be a
>window slob (lots of windows up on the screen all the time) and have 
>joined windowSlob's Anonymous.  I'm a little hesitant about upgrading this
>piece of iron, though -- the SIMMs it takes are not the most popular type,
>and when this box becomes archaic (in x months) I wonder how the memory can
>be recycled.
> 
>-- 
>					--vin
>
>vin@netcom.com
>
>"Every reform movement has its lunatic fringe"
>					--Teddy Roosevelt
>


It may be the minimum configuration and the lowest commond denominator,
but one thing is for certain (true for all NeXTSTEP releases):

A NeXT running 8MB is like having a MacPlus running CAD software.
A NeXT with 16MB, swaps less
A NeXT running 32MB cooks.


I upgraded mine early in 2.1, I have not gotten mad at it since. (20MB).
20MB seems to be a good choice in cost/performance.




-- 
Manuel Alberto Ricart
alberto@parsec.mixcom.com <NeXTMail Welcome>
Organization: Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 12:29:07 EST
From: <HARRAPR@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: DOOM!

--- Excellent commentary by Terry !

Just want to add .02$

If you doomsayers spent half as much time, and as much brainpower on actually
writing NeXT applications and Objects, and perhaps demoing the computer to
friends and co-workers, NeXT might be doing better.

Machievelli said (not an exact quote, my copy of The Prince is at home):

 There is nothing harder than changing a system, for you will have the
 direct opposition of those who benefited from the old system, and only
 lukewarm support from those who will benefit from the new.

In this newsgroup lukewarm support seems to manifest as doomsaying.
I suppose that if NeXT does go under you'll all consider yourselves wise.
Well, I will consider you accomplices. No other newsgroup supposedly about
using a great technology spends so much effort blathering on and on about
mistakes made by the company, lack of applications, etc. etc. etc.

Wake up, people. Write one of those killer apps, like Glen Reid, Andrew
Stone, Jayson Adams, etc. etc. do and maybe you'll contribute to the
success of a great computer. Otherwise, as someone mentioned a few posts
ago, the only place you'll see NeXT is in the ideas others scavenged from
them. This won't be sad - NeXT built on the successes of the Mac, which
built on the Xerox Star, and so on. But personally I'd like to see NeXT
have its time in the sun at least for a few years.

Remember that WE, not NeXT, are the people who will most benefit if NeXT
survives. The people at NeXT can move on, taking what they know and
applying it for the likes of Microsoft and Apple. But WE are the users
that get daily benefit from using a NeXT instead of Windows.

NeXT will never beat Windows. NeXT will never sell more hardware than SUN.
But NeXT is respected for vision and delivering on that vision. That can
be a very nice niche market. Look at Silicon Graphics. They do very well,
even though SUN sells more machines in a month (week?) than SGI does in a
year. NeXT can be like that - respected for proven, delivered technology.

So please, if you think NeXT is going under, put your machine for sale in
COMP.SYS.NEXT.MARKETPLACE and SHUT UP. Some of us are optimistic, at least
cautiously, and hope NeXT will find that niche.

Flame Retardant Field ON.

Rob Harrap
Dept. Geological Sciences
Queen's University
Kingston, Ont.
Canada
Harrapr@qucdn.queensu.ca
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: eps@futon.SFSU.EDU (Eric P. Scott)
Subject: Re: Publish giving NeXT the silent treatment
Reply-To: eps@cs.sfsu.edu
Organization: San Francisco State University
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1992 06:44:50 GMT

In article <1992Dec20.222020.8569@cubetech.com>
	andrew@cubetech.com writes:
>But, considering that NeXTworld and Publish basically share the same
>office,

No, they're merely in the same building--they're on different
floors.

NeXTWORLD shares its office space with SUNWORLD.

>        and that former Senior Editor of NeXTWorld, Darcy Dinucci, is
>now Editor there

I thought she got canned months ago when they "redesigned" the
magazine.  A bunch of people left, actually...

					-=EPS=-
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu (Garance A. Drosehn)
Subject: Re: comp.sys.next.announce is it dead?
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 04:38:03 GMT

bjorn@darmok.uoregon.edu (Bjorn S. Fjeld Pettersen) writes:
> Is comp.sys.next.announce dead? I havent seen any postings there for
> a _long_  while. I know it is moderated, but isn't anything slipping
> through the censors, or is it just that no one has anything to
> announce for the NeXT?

The most recent post I see is Dec 21st.  That's a bit more than a week ago,  
and it's pretty much a holiday week.  I guess I'm not too surprised.  Would  
you (if you were a company) want to announce anything during Christmas week?   
Do you think anyone would notice it?

--
Garance Alistair Drosehn     =     gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu
ITS Systems Programmer            (handles NeXT-type mail)
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute;           Troy NY    USA
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: edwardj@microsoft.com (Edward Jung)
Subject: Re: End of the Year (was Re: End of NeXT)
Date: 04 Jan 93 00:24:08 GMT
Organization: Strategy Division, Microsoft Corp.

vhs@rhein-main.de writes:

>Designed by lusers - Ack! So there is nobody at MS with enough vision
>to really improv(tm) end-user productivity except maybe for the guys
>working on the caleida project which is likely to be outdated when
>and if it comes to market?

It's a general rule of marketing that it isn't so bad if the
design of products happens from user specifications... but
you are correct... this is not the way that you get alot of
innovation.

Kaleida is a joint project between IBM and Apple. Microsoft
is not involved in Kaleida -- we have a different project
for information at your fingertips multimedia and portable
and consumer computing issues.

>Just tell me one thing: Will caleida's GUI look like windoze 3?
>MS can't alienate phantastillions of people that are used to it =}8*#

In fact a major new release of Windows will significantly
change the user interface. Hopefully we will not alienate
all those current Windows users with this new interface,
and the pain of change will be mitigated by the added
functionality, especially for information-oriented tasks
and network operations.


--
Edward Jung, Software Architect     edwardj@microsoft.com
Advanced Systems, Microsoft Corp.

Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: randall@redfish.atmos.colostate.edu (Dave Randall)
Subject: A rosy forecast for 93
Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1993 22:37:03 GMT
Reply-To: sh.atmos.colostate.edu (Dave Randall)
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523

An optimistic forecast for 93

Here is a rosy view of how NeXT will fare in 1993. Note: I have no inside  
information; the predictions below are based on an imaginative reading of  
netnews and the media. There is at least some (apparent) basis for each item.

1. Faster 040 machines are introduced early in the year. Prices on slabs are  
cut. An inexpensive color upgrade for the cube is announced, and it becomes  
clear that the cube has a future. ND officially dies, though.

2. NeXTSTEP 486 is released almost on time, and is advertised extravagantly, by  
NeXT standards. An introductory promotion is announced. Jerry Pournelle reviews  
NeXTSTEP 486 in his Byte column. Media coverage is broad and very enthusiastic.  
NeXTSTEP 486 is promoted as the "high-end" PC software with snob appeal -- a  
Lexus 400SC to Microsoft's Taurus (NT). 

3. A NeXT-Cannon luggable (brief-case sized) machine is announced, with a  
large, high-resolution color LCD screen that wows the industry. 

4. The NRW turns out to be based on multiple HP PA-RISC chips. Upgrades are  
available for at least some of the existing machines. NeXTSTEP is also made  
available for use on HP 700 series workstations. HP thus takes advantage of the  
opportunity that IBM threw away. The NeXT - HP deal is widely hailed as a  
marriage of the best software and the best hardware available. 

5. A port of NeXTSTEP to SPARC is announced, and reaches the market late in the  
year. Sales are brisk. Further ports are planned (SGI, PowerPC).

6. NeXTSTEP 486 achieves sales of 250,000 units in 1993, mostly to business and  
government.

7. NeXT's revenues reach $350 million for 1993. An IPO is planned for early  
1994.
From: gdixon@bozell.com (Glenn Dixon)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: NS'486 - Verrrry interesting...
Date: 21 Dec 1992 15:48:06 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

In article dated 12/17/92, scott@nic.gac.edu (Scott Hess) writes:

>Anyhow, on the left, second shelf, midway across, there's a package
>called "NeXTSTEP".  "NeXT" is in white, "STEP" is in orange.  It's
>an end view of the box. There's a PC-type color monitor at the
>bottom with windows and stuff in it.  I can't really see what's
>running (my eyes aren't _that_ good).  There's a nice little NeXT
>logo at the top in a white field.  It looks like the front has a
>larger "NeXTSTEP" on it.
>
>Interesting,
>--
>scott hess <shess@ssesco.com>     <I will not spin the turtle -Bart Simpson>
>12901 Upton Avenue South, #326  Burnsville, MN 55337 (612) 895-1208 Anytime!
>  * ... like a big church choir with all it's members' mouths wide open, *
>               * singing silence   -Blood Music, Greg Bear *


In article dated 12/17/92, jefferis@manas.engr.widener.edu (Raymond P  
Jefferis) writes:

>>Anyhow, on the left, second shelf, midway across, there's a package
>>called "NeXTSTEP" ... > 

>
>I think you've been "had" ole buddy.
>Ray


Well, Scott, I scrounged around and found the issue of Business Week in  
question (11/23/92) and checked it out for myself.  You are correct, sir!  As  
a matter of fact, even the NeXTSTEP box is duplicated in the picture.  Another  
box is located on the right side, on the section just to the right of the  
ladder, six shelves down, right end of the shelf.  (BTW, in my copy of the  
magazine, the "STEP" in NeXTSTEP is a drab olive-green, not orange as you  
indicated.)

Like you said, 'very interesting!'

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
& Glenn E. Dixon          & You are the one who causes me pain; you are the &
& Temerlin McClain        & one who causes me grief; you are the one who    &
& gdixon@bozell.com       & lied to me; it won't be long, soon you will see.&
& (NeXTmail welcome!)     & King is coming!          - King's X -           &
& My company has NO CLUE! &                                                 &
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: rsrodger@wam.umd.edu (Yamanari)
Subject: Re: End of NeXT
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1992 14:40:47 GMT

In article <1992Dec24.211611.15877@cuug.ab.ca> wilcoxt@cuug.ab.ca (Terrance Wilcox 229-3361) writes:
>In article <1992Dec23.051539.5455@wam.umd.edu> rsrodger@wam.umd.edu (Yamanari) writes:
>>
>>	Pretty interesting considering NS486 is still vapor.  Bout
>>	as realistic as Bill Gates giving a lecture on Microkernals
>>	based on his background in NT (which, so I've heard, is minimal).
>>
>Are you sure you mean vapor? There are developers out there with beta
>copies. 

	You can *buy* NT _right now_ for $69.  Call MS.


>People have seen demos. 


	I once saw a demo of a Mac clone backin '86.  



>There are published hardware requirements
>(sort of). 


	<sort of>? 


>The only thing you can't do is go to the store and buy it. 


	Oops.  Looks like NT is a little less vapor than NS486, then.


>I 
>think you're just a bit confused.


	I think you're a bit misinformed.


>I doubt that anybody could lecture on microkernals based on their knowledge
>of NT. NT isn't a microkernal.


	Microkernel does not necessarily mean Mach.  In any case, if
	it's not microkernel, well, tell that to the guys at MS
	who used to work on Mach for Carnegie Mellon.>
>Terry Wilcox


-- 
       "If you can't eat sand, why the hell are you living in a desert?"

     Equality is a delusion, suffering is a fairy tale and God is a fantasy.
       Blaming society for inequality is like blaming the sky for rain.
From: vesper@kong.gsfc.nasa.gov (Greg Vesper - RMS)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: 100 Mips Intel NeXT (moved from comp.sys.next.misc)
Date: 21 Dec 92 21:32:51 GMT
Reply-To: vesper@kong.gsfc.nasa.gov
Organization: Goddard Space Flight Center

In article <1h3hghINNg8p@matt.ksu.ksu.edu> ovrskeek@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (I am the  
OVER-skeek!) writes:
> andrew@cubetech.com (Andrew Loewenstern) writes:
> 
> The only problem with this is that the Alpha goes to 200mhz.....
> 

Not right now it doesn't - not shipping anyway, the 150's are barely shipping  
and there will be no 150's or 200's on the desktop in the first iteration, only  
deskside due to the heat problem.  HP gives me more SPECS AND its on the  
desktop.

HP needs to get PA RISC going with SMP. but I doubt HP/UX is up to the task.

-greg.

--
Gregory W. Vesper, SEWP BOWL, Goddard Space Flight Center
      __|__        email: vesper@sewp.nasa.gov
        |          Phone: 301-286-1478
        |          FAX:   301-286-4627
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: nathan@laplace.csb.yale.edu (Nathan F. Janette)
Subject: Re: DOOM!
Reply-To: nathan@laplace.csb.yale.edu (Nathan F. Janette)
Organization: Yale University, Department of Computer Science, New Haven, CT
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 20:15:02 GMT

In article <1992Dec29.053919.15896@cuug.ab.ca> wilcoxt@cuug.ab.ca  
(Terrance Wilcox 229-3361) writes:

> So NeXT isn't skyrocketing to the top. I can live with
> that.

Agreed, but they obviously have to turn at least a
reasonable profit soon. 

> As long as NeXT continues forward its mistakes can be
> minimized. The day NeXT  stops innovating for fear of
> making a stupid mistake is the day it becomes just another
> computer company. 

I fear in some ways this has already happened.  I recall
the reaction of some well-placed NeXT officials to my
lobbying for NeXT to adopt a new OD standard to replace the
unceremoniously jettisoned Canon ESDI OD was something
akin to "once burned, twice shy". 

--
Nathan Janette
PPP link from hilbert.csb.yale.edu

Please reply to: nathan@laplace.csb.yale.edu (NeXT)

Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: rsrodger@wam.umd.edu (Yamanari)
Subject: Re: Portable NeXT?
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 00:57:49 GMT

In article <C01IGq.FM@monitor.com> shawn@monitor.com writes:
>Naoki Saito writes
>>Dear NeXT experts,
>>I'm interested in having NeXT capability on the note book computer.
>>Is there any plan for NeXT Inc. to introduce a not book NeXT in the near
>>future? Or it's better to wait for NeXTStep on 486 and buy 486-based note
>>book computer?
>>I would appreciate any comments and suggestions.
>>
>The rumour mill seems to indicate the following:
>
>- NeXT will not be producing a 680x0 notebook


	They could have it with a quickie port of NS to the Mac.


>- A Taiwanese company will be producing a 486 notebook with color display and  
>500MB or 1GB disk drives and 16MB RAM (or so) VERY soon after the official  
>release of NS'486


	Sounds very expensive.  Frankly, I just hope they'll support the
	TI notebooks and the IBM Thinkpad (very nice).  I can't seeany
	real need for 1GB of disk space on a notebook machine.

>
>They're just rumours........
>-- 
>Shawn Broderick
>Monitor Company / Information Engineering
>Director, BCS NeXT
>shawn@monitor.com


-- 
	Blaming society for your problems is like blaming clouds for rain.
	         ---  Boycott == censorship == cowardice  ---
	Do I even need to point out that my views do not represent
	those of my employer, institution or relations?
From: filibert@vista (Daniel Filiberti)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: 100 Mips Intel NeXT (processor comparison)
Date: 24 Dec 92 19:00:08 GMT
Article-I.D.: ohsu.1992Dec24.190008.25875
Reply-To: filibert@ohsu.edu
Organization: Oregon Health Sciences University

In article <1992Dec23.192238.18955@kong.gsfc.nasa.gov>  
vesper@kong.gsfc.nasa.gov (Greg Vesper - RMS) writes:
> > 
> > A little commentary....
> > 
> 
> Your commentary is out of date.  Look at the NEW new HP's. ie the 735 and  
755.  
> They beat the alpha's, and at only 99 MHZ - alpha is good, but PA RISC is  
> better..

So, what you are saying is that HP achieved a performance
boost from 132 MIPS to 400 MIPS?  This sounds pretty
far-fetched...  The article states that the Alpha team
wants to achieve a superiority in clock speed by at least
50% when Alpha is introduced.  They figured the industry
leader in 1992 would be at a clock rate of 120 MHz making a
minimum clock rate for Alpha to be 180 MHz.  It sounds like
their projections were pretty close, and since they have
already shown a 150 MHz alpha that achieved a 50% increase
in performance over the PA-4 at 66 MHz, I think the actual
release version of Alpha will maintain this advantage. 
I'm really not up-to-date on the HP line of processors,
but unless the latest (as compared to July 1992) has
significant revisions, I find it hard to believe that
they currently "beat" the latest Alpha technology. 

I'm not necessarily being a proponent for the Alpha, I
just think its great news that DEC finally seems to have
done something right, and with some sort of vision. 

As an aside, the article further states that over 600
software suppliers have agreed to port their software to
the Alpha architecture, included among them many
leading companies...etc, Sounds good if its true. ;) 


Daniel

---
************************************************************
Motto for a monitor, "It's better to burn out, than to fade
 away..."  [8?)}
************************************************************
 
Daniel Filiberti
Oregon Health Sciences University
Biomedical Information Communication Center (BICC)
3181 Sam Jackson Park Road
Portland, Oregon  97201-3098
email:  filibert@ohsu.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy