HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: smith@ctron.com (Larry Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Quest?
Date: 15 Apr 92 14:16:30 GMT
Reply-To: smith@ctron.com
Distribution: na
Organization: Cabletron Systems, Inc.

In article <456@rml.UUCP>, jack@rml.UUCP (jack hagerty) writes:
>I think Quest will take a big bite out of this market with their
>pricing strategy (more on this after I finish my first Q-kit)

Quest?  Whodat?  Did I miss someone on the last run through of the
manufacturer list?

Larry Smith (smith@ctron.com) No, I don't speak for Cabletron.
-------------------------------------------------------------
I have come to the conclusion that one useless man is called a "disgrace",
that two are called a "law firm", and that three or more become a "Congress".
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: I may change from fuse
Date: 14 Apr 92 23:36:35 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <17496.29eaf74a@ecs.umass.edu>, marsden@ecs.umass.edu writes:
> In article <2151@transfer.stratus.com>, cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares) writes:
> > In article <1992Apr13.005309.8628@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>, ah157@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Rob Henry) writes:
> >> Also for all of you insightful lawyers out there who have given me hell
> >> through email about wanting to join the NAR wen I stated openly that I used
> >> fuse I pose this question...
> > 
> > They're not thinking straight.  We'd rather have you in the association
> > to get you educated and help you have more fun.  Some of our safest modelers 
> > today are "ex-bombers" who "saw the light."
> 
> My point, I suppose, is that there's a taint of "Holier than Thou" in this
> discussion which I find distasteful and to at least some degree unwarranted.  
> Your "saw the light" comment adds to that subtle undertone of religious 
> gospel with respect to your arguments which ultimately (again IMHO, and 
> oh so slightly) detracts from the inate value of the advice and knowlege 
> you're disseminating.

That's precisely why I put it in quotes in the first place.

> I, however, prefer to reserve the right to reassess risk/benefit evaluations
> for my own actions with differing situations.  If I find that the aesthetic 
> pleasure I get from launching a rocket in the privacy of my own fields using 
> a fuse instead of an electrical ignition system is worth the change in my 
> risk evaluations, I may well do so.  Laws & penalties governing my actions 
> are also included in my total risk assessment in any particular situation.

You argue from the point of view that you are aware of all the laws and 
penalties that accrue from this choice.  You might be -- but more likely 
you are not.  Certainly very few people who "make this choice" are.

In Massachusetts, your use of a fuse turns your rocket into a firework. 
Fireworks are illegal without a fireworks display permit.  Did you realize
this?  Are you aware of the penalties prescribed for violators?

Since you are no longer flying a model rocket, you are legally required 
to notify and/or obtain a waiver from the FAA before flying your rocket.
Did you realize this?  Are you aware of the penalties prescribed for 
violators?

You do realize, I hope, that the fact that you're doing this "in your own
field" doesn't make a piss-hole in the snow's worth of difference to the
agencies involved?  If you manage to set fire to your field and have to 
call the fire department to put it out, expect to be charged with the 
fireworks violation, at the very least.  And your homeowner's insurance 
may not pay for the damage, since it was caused by you in the commission 
of an illegal act.

There's a difference between being holier than someone else, and simply
having more experience.
-- 

cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com      --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...
From: bobt@pogo.wv.tek.com (Bob Tidrick)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: appology from Vehlow
Date: 15 Apr 92 20:04:57 GMT
Organization: Tektronix Inc., Beaverton, Or.

Mr. Vehlow sent me the following and requested it be posted.

>I would like to take this opportunity to apologize for my waste of bandwidth
 as well as for a risky stunt I was part of. Please do me a favor and forward
 my apology to the net, as my Usenet mailer is down right now.

 I have been interested in rocketry since the age of 9, and have conducted
 serious launches before. This was just a lark which i had serious doubts about
 doing all along. Though I may continue to experiment with various homemade
 vehicular configurations, I pledge that it will be done outside in remote areas
 and with more extreme safety precautions.

 I am not a dangerous pyro. I am not an arsonist. I just made a judgment error
 in allowing such an event to proceed, and what's worse is the fact that my
 sense of humor got the best of me when posting. I'll not do this again. I
 promise, and I don't break promises. Ever.

 Please forward the above to the net. Thank you. I too am interested in pursuing
 rocketry as a serious hobby and am sorry to have potentially tarnished that
 image.

 Sincerely,
>R Vehlow

I for one will take him at his word.
-- 
                                                Bob Tidrick
                                                GPID Engineering
                                                Tektronix Inc.
                                                Wilsonville OR.
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: buzz@rsd.dl.nec.com (Buzz McDermott)
Subject: Re: Quest?
Organization: NEC America, Radio Software Dept
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 16:03:22 GMT

In article <3472@balrog.ctron.com>, smith@ctron.com (Larry Smith) writes:
|> Quest?  Whodat?  Did I miss someone on the last run through of the
|> manufacturer list?

Quest is a 'new' model rocket kits, engines and supplies manufacturer.  I say
'new' because they have some of the oldest names in model rocketry involved
in the company.  They have a complete, if initially limited, set of kits
and A-C engines (single stage, upper stage, and booster).  Their kits and
engines are both priced less than Estes.  They also have a very complete
educational series of kits that can be bought as kits or in bulk parts.  They
offer quantity discount pricing for the educational line.

I haven't built any Quest kits, yet, but I've seen both some Quest models and
Quest engines at local DARS launches.  The engines have a slightly different
thrust curve then Estes equivalents but seem to perform well.  The builders
of the models I've seen agreed that the quality was as good as Estes.

The big point about Quest is that their kits can be as much as 40% cheaper
that similar Estes kits.  Many of their kits are definitley targeted at the
8-12 year old crowd.  They have color-coded parts, plastic fin units, pre-
colored fins, nose cones and body tubes, etc.

============================================================================
Buzz McDermott                   Internet: buzz@rsd.dl.nec.com
NAR# 13559
============================================================================
From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: Club Meets
Date: 10 Apr 92 22:18:24 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <3453@balrog.ctron.com>, smith@ctron.com (Larry Smith) writes:
> Does anyone know of any clubs or contacts for clubs in S. New Hampshire or
> Northern Mass?  Does anyone know of any meets for clubs in the same area?
> Any high-power types in that area?  I had a contact for someone at DEC,
> but he don't answer email...

I'm the advisor of a club in Northboro MA.  There is a club in Merrimack
NH as well, but I don't know how often they launch.  You can try mailing
mccarthy@alien.enet.dec.com.

Our club is having a launch on the 25th.  No high-power, though -- it's 
not legal in MA.
-- 

cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com      --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: rbs@cyclops.micr.Virginia.EDU (Robert B. Sisk)
Subject: QUEST ADDRESS/INFO
Originator: rbs@cyclops.micr.Virginia.EDU
Organization: University of Virginia
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 19:23:08 GMT

Quest Aerospace Education Inc.
P.O Box 42390
Phoenix, Arizona  85080-2390

TELEPHONE 1-800-858-7302


QUEST 1991-1992 Catalog

Program Starter Set 		$29.00


MODELS

Eagle Kit			$ 7.00
Novia Kit			$ 3.60
Starhawk kit			$ 4.00
Astra kit			$ 4.50
Viper kit			$ 5.00
Courier kit			$ 8.00
Zenith II kit			$ 8.00
Nike-Smoke kit			$ 6.00
Explorer Kit
	version
	RX-25			$ 5.00
	PX-25 payload module	$ 2.50
	SX-25 staging module	$ 3.00


MOTORS
		A6-4	B6-4	C6-5	B6-0
qty 3-6		$1.10	1.20	1.30	1.20
    7-24	1.05	1.15	1.25	1.15
    25-48	1.00	1.10	1.20	1.10
    49+		0.95	1.05	1.15	1.05

NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR TYPOS
The above is all of the models listed in the catalog.  I have seen 
more models at the local hobby store that are NOT listed in the catalog.

Bob
-- 

Robert B. Sisk
NAR #53448				Internet: rbs@virginia.edu
TRIPOLI #1583				UUCP:     uunet!virginia!rbs
From: jack@rml.UUCP (jack hagerty)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: energy required to ignite engines
Keywords: ignition, engines
Date: 8 Apr 92 18:15:36 GMT
Reply-To: jack@rml.UUCP (jack hagerty)
Organization: Robotic Midwives, Ltd.

In article <1987@transfer.stratus.com> cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares) writes:
>> I remember seeing an article about a person's measurements
>> on the amount of current needed to set-off several types
>> of rocket igniters. 
>
>According to G. Harry Stine, Chairman of the NFPA Committee on
>Pyrotechnics, NFPA 1126 (Pyrotechnics in the Performing Arts) sets
>a safe level of no more than 45 milliamps for testing continuity of
>ignition devices.  Harry claims that he knows of no ignition device
>that will go off at that current level 

Ok, now that we know what *won't* set off an ignitor, how much does
it take to actually *ignite* the various brands?

- Jack

=============================================================================
||Jack Hagerty, Robotic Midwives, Ltd.                 jack@rml.com        ||
||Livermore, CA		           NOTE! New, improved address! ^^^        ||
||(510) 455-1143	            (old ones will still work)             ||
||-------------------------------------------------------------------------||
||"While your brains may not be so large to look at as those of the Scare- ||
||crow, you are really brighter than he is -- when you are well polished." ||
||    -- Glinda to the Tin Woodman, original edition                       ||
=============================================================================
From: whitman@nssdca.gsfc.nasa.gov (Rusty Whitman)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: Igniters
Date: 10 Apr 92 19:02:00 GMT
Organization: NASA - Goddard Space Flight Center
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Apr10.150805.12601@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>, ah157@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Rob Henry) writes...
> 
[stuff on igniters deleted]
> 

	I can't answer your questions on home-made igniters, I just use the
Estes solar igniters and they work well for me.  As for Thermalite,  there
are lots of places to buy it.  You can get rolls of it from any High Power
Rocketry distributor or manufacturer.  To use Thermalite with an electric
launch system you snip off a piece of thermalite long enough to fit up
in the motor you wish to ignite with about 1/2 to 3/4 inch sticking out.
Thermalite is a fast fuse wrapped in fine wire and usually painted.  Scrape
the outside with a knife until you see all the wires.  Carefully remove all
but one of the little wires.  Insert the thermalite into the motor and tape
it so it won't fall out.  When you are ready to launch, attached the 
launch leads to the thermalite about 1/4 inch apart and so they 
contact the remaining wire wrapped around the thermalite (make sure the
launch system is safed before you do this).  Arm your system, check for
hazards, and launch.

I've never used thermalite with Estes motors, only high power stuff.  The
Estes solar igniters will work well if you do the following:  carefully
insert the igniter into the motor making sure the leads aren't shorted;
take a small piece of recovery wadding and stuff it into the nozzle to
hold the igniter in (I use my launch controller key).  This will usually
hold the igniter in place but use a piece of tape on the end of the motor
to be sure.  I have had almost 100% success with this method.  The
biggest problem with the Estes igniters it that the pyrotechnic end tends
to be fragile so it can get beat up in the range box if you don't have
a little holder for them.  I wind up throwing some of them away if they
look real bad.

Hope this answers some of your questions.  I think there are some tech
reports you can get through the NAR or Tripoli that will tell you 
everything you want to know about ignition techniques and launch systems,
you might try getting hold of one of those.

Rusty

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
"[W]e think it the height of reckless and extreme folly to address
'violent and vile profanity' to a Butte miner and a Marine, while
such remarks to the miner or the Marine require only courage."
		37 Mich.L.Rev. 874,887 (1939)

whitman@istp1.gsfc.nasa.gov (128.183.92.59)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jeremiah.Blatz@dartmouth.edu (Jeremiah Blatz)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: Fuse
Date: 13 Apr 92 04:20:46 GMT
 <2098@transfer.stratus.com>
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

As to the questions of what fuse is doing in hobby stores, the fuse I
see is clearly marked "Cannon Fuse". Yes there are people who own and
fire cannons, and they do need fuse.
I do think that the igniter included in packs of rockets are next to
worthless. Often, when I open a pack, all the igniter compound has been
broken off the wire. Estes should put the igniters in a seperate
blister to protect them.

Jeremiah
JerBl@Dartmouth.edu
From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: Fuse
Date: 10 Apr 92 00:34:21 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <1992Apr9.223727.6703@rsd0.rsd.dl.nec.com>, buzz@rsd.dl.nec.com (Buzz McDermott) writes:
> In article <2068@transfer.stratus.com>,cdt@sw.stratus.com (C.D. Tavares) writes:
> |> Make your own igniters if you must.  All you need is a cheap roll of
> |> picture-hanging wire, some clear dope, and a ballpoint pen.  A 12V
> |> battery will fire these like nobody's business.
> 
> Ok, C.D., I don't mind showing my ignorance.  The wire and dope I understand. 
> What's the point of the ball-point pen?

It's to write down the name of your next of kin in case you decide to go
back to fuse.

No, really... back in the 60's, the standard was to wrap the igniter once
around the tip of a ball-point pen, making a loop at the tip end.  The
idea was to put twice as much hot wire in contact with the propellant.  Yes,
you spread it to keep the loop from shorting on itself!  It worked best
with "refill" type pens -- we didn't have conical Bics in those days.
-- 

cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com      --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: ah157@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Rob Henry)
Subject: Fuse
Reply-To: ah157@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Rob Henry)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 92 17:44:40 GMT



Why is it that rocket companies like Estes don't promote fuse as a way to
ignite rocket engines?
I've been using it exclusively for over a year now and have had 1 misfire.
I read in a book that they are dangerous and unreliable.WHat is dangerous about
them?I see using a stupid electric
thing 15 feet from the pad as much more dangerous.With a fuse,I can put 6
inches or so on,have 30 to 40 seconds to
run and get a good view of the rocket in flight.With an igniter,I have to 
stand on top of the pad and can't see sh*t.Igniters also don't work half of
the time and the batteries also die.
For 2 bucks,I can get 10 feet of fuse.That's enough for 30 to 40 launches.
For the same amount I can get 6 igniters,1/3 of which will not work.I guess
I see now why they don't promote fuse,they make a killing selling igniters.
From: taco@flipper.csd.harris.com (Pablo Fumero)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: energy required to ignite engines
Keywords: ignition, engines
Date: 1 Apr 92 15:42:37 GMT
Reply-To: taco@flipper.csd.harris.com (Pablo Fumero)
Organization: Harris Computer Systems Div., Ft. Lauderdale, FL

I remember seeing an article about a person's measurements
on the amount of current needed to set-off several types
of rocket igniters. If someone still has this article, I
would greatly appreciate some mail or a repost.

-- 
Pablo Fumero 			Internet: taco@flipper.csd.harris.com
Diagnostic Engineering 		UUCP:  ...!uunet!travis!flipper!taco
Harris Computer Systems 	(305) 973-5167
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Opinions expressed here are entirely my own and not of Harris Corporation.
From: jack@rml.UUCP (jack hagerty)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: QUEST ADDRESS/INFO
Date: 17 Apr 92 00:54:10 GMT
Reply-To: jack@rml.UUCP (jack hagerty)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Robotic Midwives, Ltd.

In article <1992Apr16.192308.27710@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> rbs@cyclops.micr.Virginia.EDU (Robert B. Sisk) writes:

>The above is all of the models listed in the catalog.  I have seen 
>more models at the local hobby store that are NOT listed in the catalog.

True. The first Quest kit I picked up was a Sprint, your basic drag 
optomized sport model. This makes the third kit by that name that
I have (after the Estes and FSI versions) and they're all pretty
similar (3:1 ogive nose, boattails, 3 minimum planform fins, etc.)
Then again, there's only so many ways to optomize a rocket this size!

After getting the kit home and checking it out, I was impressed enough
to go back and buy a more ambitious kit (the 2 stage Navajo). Both
are still sitting in my "to do" bin, but with the Titan almost finished
and the weather starting to break, they'll be together soon.

- Jack

=============================================================================
||Jack Hagerty, Robotic Midwives, Ltd.                 jack@rml.com        ||
||Livermore, CA		           NOTE! New, improved address! ^^^        ||
||(510) 455-1143	            (old ones will still work)             ||
||-------------------------------------------------------------------------||
||             Dr. Suess, Jim Irwin, Gene Roddenberry, Isaac Asimov        ||
||                      All in one year, [sigh] :-(                        ||
=============================================================================
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: FAQ list for r.m.r
Date: 10 Apr 92 19:12:31 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Parkard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA

buzz@rsd.dl.nec.com (Buzz McDermott) writes:
: Over the past several months I have seen certain questions asked time and
: again (What is Tripoli? What are the current manufacturers? What is the
: NAR? What is HPR?....).  I have also noticed an increasing number of
: submitters (yeah!!).
: 
: I believe that r.m.r would greatly benefit from an FAQ.  It doesn't currently
: have one.  I don't claim to be any great expert on rocketry (I've been more
: 'out' than 'in' over the past 25 years).  I am willing (stupid/crazy enough??)
: to tackle the job of an FAQ, if there is any interest.

Yep, one could be helpful.

: Ok, the fool has gone and volunteered.  Any takers?

As far as I am concerned - go for it.

Bill
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: energy required to ignite engines
Keywords: ignition, engines
Date: 8 Apr 92 04:57:09 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <7707@travis.csd.harris.com>, taco@flipper.csd.harris.com (Pablo Fumero) writes:
> I remember seeing an article about a person's measurements
> on the amount of current needed to set-off several types
> of rocket igniters. If someone still has this article, I
> would greatly appreciate some mail or a repost.

According to G. Harry Stine, Chairman of the NFPA Committee on
Pyrotechnics, NFPA 1126 (Pyrotechnics in the Performing Arts) sets
a safe level of no more than 45 milliamps for testing continuity of
ignition devices.  Harry claims that he knows of no ignition device
that will go off at that current level (and of course he's very
conversant in modern rocketry practice).
-- 

cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com      --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: helen@pulua.hcc.hawaii.edu (Helen Rapozo)
Subject: Re: QUEST ADDRESS/INFO
Organization: University of Hawaii
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 02:10:12 GMT

In article <1992Apr16.192308.27710@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> rbs@cyclops.micr.Virginia.EDU (Robert B. Sisk) writes:
>Quest Aerospace Education Inc.
>P.O Box 42390
>Phoenix, Arizona  85080-2390
>
>TELEPHONE 1-800-858-7302
********
Phoenix!?!  I wonder if they are using the old Centuri place or their
ex-employees.

>QUEST 1991-1992 Catalog
>Nike-Smoke kit			$ 6.00
**********
Well Centuri had a Nike-Smoke kit.

--
Honolulu Community College            cs_rapozo@hccadb.hcc.hawaii.edu
874 Dillingham Blvd.                  helen@pulua.hcc.hawaii.edu
Honolulu, HI 96817                    rapozo@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu
Ph#: (808) 845-9202
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: rbs@cyclops.micr.Virginia.EDU (Robert B. Sisk)
Subject: Re: r.m.r FAQ list
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 02:34:08 GMT

In article <1992Apr13.180429.24278@rsd0.rsd.dl.nec.com> buzz@rsd.dl.nec.com (Buzz McDermott) writes:
>In article <1992Apr11.192539.10419@panix.com>, reynolds@panix.com (Brian Reynolds) writes:
>|> 	How about a section for scale information?  A pointer to Peter

{STUFF DELETED}

>I personally think that several questions on scale would be appropriate for the
>FAQ.  I also like the idea of a compiled list of scale sources.  I personally
>think that to do such a list justice would make it too big for an FAQ and 
>the FAQ would do better to reference the list as a source of info.  So, I'm
>doing the FAQ and R.M. Jungclass has an excellent list of rocketry sources.
>So who wants to tackle the scale info sources list?  Along those lines, I 
>also think a good list of rocket clubs, etc., would be too big for the FAQ.
>I would suggest seeing about putting the NAR section and Tripoli prefect lists 
>on calvin and referencing them in the FAQ.  
>

{STUFF DELETED}

There used to be a listed of scale data sources posted every now and then.
It was usually posted when someone began a discussion similar to this one. If
I remember correctly the list was posted by Kevin Mckiou (kwm@ihlpy.att.com).
Kevin, are you out there?  Is my tired old mine working correctly?

Bob
-- 

Robert B. Sisk
NAR #53448				Internet: rbs@virginia.edu
TRIPOLI #1583				UUCP:     uunet!virginia!rbs
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: Jim Cook <J.Cook@ENS.Prime.COM>
Subject: Re: Rocket into science class
Reply-To: <J.Cook@ENS.Prime.COM>
Organization: Prime Computer, Inc.
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 16:22:31 GMT

NARTS also offers some educational info-packets.  You can write them at
NARTS, P.O. Box 1482, Saugus, MA  01906

Jim 

Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets