From: nan@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Nan Zou)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: 7.1 vs. OS/2 and Windows NT
Date: 8 Oct 1992 12:22:10 -0500
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: matt.ksu.ksu.edu

johnsd2@vccsouth16.its.rpi.edu (Daniel Norman Johnson) writes:
>nan@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Nan Zou) writes:
>|> bcoleman@hayes.com (Bill Coleman) writes:

>|> [ some System 7 features vs. OS/2 features...]
>|> 
>|> >>>* Support for "live copy and paste" between applications that aren't running
>|> >> Don't know what that means.
>|> 
>|> >If you change something in document A that you've pasted into document B,
>|> >the changes get updated in B.
>|> 
>|> Hmm, sounds like DDE, no?

>Nope, not a bit. Sounds a lot like OLE tho.

Yep, you're right.

>[deletia- Device Independant Graphics]
[ palette management ]

>|> >How about OS/2 applications, not DOS apps?
>|> 
>|> The Palette Manager will do its best to allocate the desired color for
>|> each application.

>Maybe _you_ can tell me then. How good is this? What does
>OS/2s palette manager do, and how well? Comparted to the
>Mac Palette Manager.

What's your definition of good?  For me, if the colors don't look too
ugly, then they're good enough for me.  And I haven't had any chance to
test the palette management capability of OS/2, I run my desktop at 16
colors and not many PM apps I have would use more than that.  If I try
to load a 256-color bitmap it gets dithered to 16-colors, doesn't look
too good.

>|> >>>  differing depths, and to change the depth on the fly. (Not, Not)
>|> >> 
>|> >> Multiple monitors is theoretically possible if hardware exists.
>|> 
>|> >But it doesn't. And can you change the depth on the fly? (Windows can't)
>|> 
>|> Let's leave the question unanswered until the hardware comes out.

>C'mon. The hardware is commonplace. All we are talking about is
>a video card and a monitor. All u need is more than one slot,
>so you can fit the cards in.

Something needs to be clarified: just because there're more than one
slot doesn't mean you can put anything into those slots.  The AT archi-
tecture has certain limitations, like no interrupt sharing, when video
card manufacturers have those issues resolved we can talk software.

>I dont think windows OR OS/2 can use such a setup tho.

Currently they can't, but not because of any inherent limitations on the
part of Windows GDI or OS/2 PM, they're both Device Independent Graphics
systems, to add new features you just replace the graphics library, like
you replace your 8-bit color QuickDraw with 32-bit color QuickDraw, it
makes no sense to support something that isn't there, no?  That's why I
say it's theoretically possible.

>[deletia- Human Interface Guidelines/CUA '92]
>|> >>>* Support for the localization of Sorting order, Data and Time formats,
>|> >>>  currency, measurement, calenders and numbers (Not, Not)
>|> >> 
>|> >> Windows yes, OS/2 yes.
>|> 
>|> >Perhaps I missed some of these.
>|>
>|> I know in WPS you can sort the icons of a folder in name/size/date/etc
>|> order, also you can setup the date/time/currency formats.

>That's not what he meant. The MacOS provides library routines to
>format numbers and dates, and compare strings. These routines
>are sensitive to various non-English punctiation marks and other
>fun things. (ae blended together, etc) When moved to annother country,
>a Mac can be localized so that it follows the comparison conventions
>for that country. The upshot is everything sorts right.

I'm not sure about this part, but I can't figure out why this is
important.

>|> >>>* Standard support for temporal data, graphics data compression, both for
>|> >>>  static and real-time graphics and sound. (QuickTime) (Not, Not) 
>|> >> 
>|> >> Different standards, MPC and Ultimedia.
>|> 
>|> >Incomplete standards. They both require specific hardware. Ouch. QuickTime
>|> 
>|> Specific hardware?  Not necessarily, you can run multimedia apps with
>|> existing hardware, even digitized sound from the internal speaker/
>|> beeper.  But QuickTime also needs specific hardware, for starters, you
>|> need a Mac, ;-) also you need the ROMs with 32-bit QuickDraw in them.
>|> Right?

>:)

>Not quite right, but close. MPC requires a CD-ROM and a 386, last time
>I checked.

Yes, but the multimedia features of Windows are a subset of the MPC
spec, to get full certification you need a CD-ROM and other hardware 
stuff.

>|> I don't know why you would think the multimedia standards of Windows and
>|> OS/2 are incomplete, specific examples?

>I dont think they are incomplete. But they do cost extra, and require
>special hardware. (well, the Windows one does, I dunno 'bout OS/2)

Well if you don't already have the hardware for digital sound, of course
it's going to cost you extra, just like it's going to cost you extra for
MIDI features if you don't already have MIDI hardware.

>|> I have a little file here that documents certain parts of the multi-
>|> media standard, some excerpts from the forward and table of contents:
>|> 
>[deltia- big nasty excerpt]
>|> 
>|> If you want I can send the file to you (all 260K of it), although I
>|> doubt you'd be interested.

>So where's the animation w/ sound format?

Good point, they talked a lot about MIDI and waveform audio stuff, but
animation is only mentioned sparsely, one gets the feeling that
animation is not what they try to emphasize, the closest thing they have
are some animation device definition and a set of command strings
defined for that device, like open/close/play/pause.  There's no
standard file format defined for animation like there is for MIDI and
digital audio.  Perhaps Microsoft's idea of "multimedia" is different
from others?

>|> >doesn't, although it fully supports additional hardware. 
>|> 
>|> And so does Windows and MMPM (Multimedia PM), why is it considered an
>|> avdvantage of QuickTime when it supports additional hardware and a
>|> disadvantage of Windows and OS/2 when they can do the same?

>They REQUIRE additional hardware. (according to what I've read);
>That's the problem.

They only require additional hardware if the hardware is not already
present, some companies sell "multimedia workstations" which have all
the hardware builtin, Tandy and a few others.  I know I'm just splitting
hair here, what it boils down to is that some standard hardware on the
Mac is not generally present on PCs, like digital audio, you can buy
them seperately and have them supported under Windows because of its
device independent nature.

>|> >>>* Standard color picker (Not, Not)
>|> >> 
>|> >> What is it?
>|> 
>|> >It allows you to choose colors via a standard interface. There might be
>|> >something for OS/2 in this vein.
>|> 
>|> I think I know what you mean here, OS/2's pallatte and color object (you
>|> use these to configure how WPS looks) both use a color-wheel thingy for
>|> you to specify colors.  Other apps may present their own interface.

>Does the OS/2 provide a standard facility they can use?

Don't know.

>|> >>>* Automatic slot conflict resolution (NuBus and Slot Manager) (Not, Not)
>|> >>>  ( MCA helps, but it isn't automatic )
>|> >> 
>|> >> Hardware issue, both MCA and EISA have auto device configuration,
>|> >> running some register setup program during device installation.

>If you like. I was just babbling myself. (didn't you notice? :)

Well I kind of have a faint idea.  ;-)

-- Nan
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy