From: jds2@po.CWRU.Edu (John D. Specht)
Subject: Re: Possible to Obtain magic powers>?
Reply-To: jds2@po.CWRU.Edu (John D. Specht)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 23:00:31 GMT



In a previous article, eshin@ddsw1.mcs.com (Eshin-Fun) says:

>>>jds2@po.CWRU.Edu (John D. Specht) writes:
>
>: I have a household pet, a black cat named snowball, who is certainly not my 
>: master. We have a simple relationship: I provide some of his food, and he
>: gets information for me.
>
>
>Then why post? Ask your cat.
I don't expect the cat to have all the answers, and he does not expect me to
have all of the food. You read too much into this, I'm afraid.
>
>
>: >: That is what I have learned from Zen.<<
>
>: Sounds like L.Ron Hubbard's "The sole drive of the individual human is to
>: reproduce." I didn't agree with him, either. I will not counter the storm's 
>: effort to spend itself, only the direction and timing.
>
>
>Then either go back to (since you speak in past tense) or stay with Zen.
>
Sorry, I should have used the more complete (formal) form of that sentence:
That is what I have learned from Zen *so far*.
>
>Remember, that before one can write on a blackboard covered with chalk
>marking, one has to erase what is on its surface first.
>
I have many colors of chalk, as you have many different senses.
>
>: I think I would find being all-powerful INTENSLEY boring. That's probably one
>: of the few reasons I'm not. The only limitation of the individual are the ones
>: he/she chooses. (Richard Bach, _Illusions_) As for the part about "what
>: to really do to begin with" um, I would leave that decision to the individual,
>: as you cannot force your choices into another's skull without something on
>: the order of a crowbar or baseball bat.
>
>
>You flatter yourself! What makes you presume that you are so capable to make
>that choice?
>
I have not yet found a limitation to my power which was outside of my control.
I assume that you do not believe you have this choice, and in so not believing,
you do not have (that choice.)
>
>
>: > My power is only limited by my limitations,.........
>: >: 
>: >: 
>: >: The greatest gift is self.<<
>
>
>Narcissus though so too. But he got lost in the imagery of "his" own
>reflection, whilst Echo helplessly stood by.
>
This is a story I am not familiar with, I will have to go read Bullfinch's 
_Mythology_ again, I believe it was mentioned there. I cannot comment 
further in ignorance.

>Perhaps I may bore you with these metaphors. Fine, but though it is in
>"self" that may be the answer; CONCEIT is its downfall.
Conceit is a very neat little word in English whose definition varies (in
my observation) from individual to individual. I would define it something
like "an excessive sense of self-worth" Which I also (to me) do not posess.
I am concerned that you may be falling into this trap, as your arguments 
repeatedly include assumptions and axioms which you cannot prove are true
for anyone but yourself.
>
>: >
>: I have no integrity in the social sense of the term. I would as easily kill 
>: a lady as kiss her, depending on the necessary behavior. (What _I_ decide is
>: necessary.) And I have no appreciation for that which does not benefit me 
>
>
>Did you learn this from Zen too?
>
I chose this path in rationality. I have no "moral compunction" to avoid
killing a human simply because it is human. If the need is there, then the
deed shall be done. By the EXACT SAME TOKEN, if I must kill a herd-beast of
some sort to get food, I will. (Before you scream: 1) people are not herd-
beasts, and 2) I'm not a cannibal. It's an example.) 
Simply put, I have made careful effort to avoid prejudging any situation
based on my emotions, and try to avoid automatic reations to situations.
(One can spend many years in the habit of dodging birds who stand on a 
roadway, but the first time you do this "out of habit" near a steep cliff it
can be fatal. What a waste.)
>
>
>: I will offer information, I cannot guarantee how it will be interpreted, or
>: used. Every individual's perceptions are tainted by every previous 
>: perception, and making the individual aware of this is a great first step
>: in enlightenment.
>
>Ahh! we are back to the blackboard full of scribble.
>
Again, you can you another color of chalk.
>
>: I was (I thought) incarnated to help others, enjoy life, and occaisionaly 
>: consume excessive quantities of alcohol.
>
>
>Ahh! we are back to Ron Hubbard!
How? I was offering a contrast to your theory to provide our audience
with a better background on each of us for comparison.
>
>
>: I can't guess, having never been there.
>: >
>: Excuse me if I'm getting a little silly, I was trying to lighten this 
>: dreary mess up a bit.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>Why ask a question when you already have foregone its conclusion?
>
Which question had I forgone the conclusion of? You seem to have removed it.
>
>Stay with your cat. He has better questions...
>
How do you know this? Have you spoken to him? Did he answer? I would almost
believe you were trying to insult me. If you tire of this discussion, I will
cease. 
>
>Eshin-Fun
>
>: 
>
Paul

Solipsism: Arguing yourself out of existence?

-- 
jds2 	John D. Specht (Heads I win; Tails you lose.) Virtual reality is life!
ae358	Paul Bort (It ain't pretty being easy) Spring: Forces, Coiled again!
If you want to save an endangered species, hug a romantic.
Love is the triumph and pleasure and joy and light that makes life bearable.
Newsgroups: alt.magick,alt.pagan