HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tim@tcom.stc.co.uk (Tim Kennedy)
Newsgroups: misc.kids,alt.kids-talk,alt.parents-teens,misc.education
Subject: Re: Minors right of access to contraceptives?
Date: 14 Apr 92 11:48:10 GMT
Organization: BNR Europe

In article <2531@keele.keele.ac.uk> csz55@seq1.keele.ac.uk (Christopher Wrigley) writes:
>
>I have a question which I believe is worthy of debate. Again it concerns
>both parents and their children in an age where teenage pregnancy is no
>longer our primary worry.
>
>The question is: Should minors have the same right of access to
>contraceptives as adults and should parents be notified if
>contraceptives are provided to their minor children?
>
[reasons for and against deleted]

As the father of a baby girl I don't have this problem to contend with
just yet.

I have two thoughts on the matter.  I DO think that sexual activity at
school age is bad for the child's educational development as she or he
will lose concentration.  Thus I would warn my Lauren if she started to
get serious with a boy at age 14,  although to come down heavy would
never help in such a situation,  especially if she takes after her mother.

HOWEVER it is of paramount importance that condom use is encouraged early
on,and sex WILL ALWAYS occur amongst some schoolkids.  Therefore condoms
being distributed at schools is a good thing.

			Tim
--
In 1988 BBC Radio One listeners voted for  | T. Kennedy <tim@tcom.stc.co.uk>
the alltime greatest single.  Way ahead of | Dept 30730 NME, BNR Europe,
Strawberry Fields and Stairway To Heaven,  | Oakleigh Rd South, London N11 1HB.
at no. 1 was I Owe You Nothing by Bros.    | LUFC, Yorkshire's No. 1.
From: bhjelle@vaxine.unm.edu (Brian Hjelle)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: La Leche League
Date: 8 Apr 92 19:16:43 GMT
Article-I.D.: lynx.1-rjb+f
Distribution: na
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

In article <1992Apr8.161052.23370@cbfsb.cb.att.com> dal3@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (dale.e.parson) writes:
>In article <76qj7l+@lynx.unm.edu> bhjelle@vaxine.unm.edu (Brian Hjelle) writes:
>>>>
>>>
>>This is a topic that merits serious thought, not knee-jerk notions
>>that breast feeding is *always* better, in all circumstances, than
>>bottle feeding. Yes, you should try hard to breast feed exclusively
>>in the first few days, but your baby is a human being, and *needs
>>fluids* to survive. If you can't provide that, it is not OK to
>>just deprive him/her because LLL tells you to. 
>
>at work fulfills my quota, though, so I'll respond with a few pertinent
>facts for Brian and add another thread to my kill file:

>Two weeks ago we had our two year old in a hospital for dehydration
>brought on by acute stomach flu / diarrhea. 

>By contrast, my niece had a similar experience with her 1-year old son
>a year ago, & the first thing her pediatrician told her to do was
>STOP NURSING. So the kid lay in the hospital & screemed unnecessarily,
>wanting to nurse, her milk dried up (the doctor made the stop-nursing
>long term), & the kid came out of the stomach flu / dehydration no
>faster than the typical nursing baby in similar circumstances. Some
>nice way to be weaned, huh?

Straw man. Nowhere in my post do I advocate stopping nursing for
gastroenteritis.

>As for the case of our first-born, the reasons not to shove formula
>down their throats at the first cry include:

Straw man. Who is advocating the above? Read my post!

[Facts about nursing that 99% of misc.kids readers have known for
years deleted]
>
>There was no danger of dehydration in the time frame that it takes the
>milk to come in. 

For 100% of kids? All of them? Look, I know you can't read my
post because you reflexly put me in your kill file, but if you
do, I suggest you read my original comments. 
It is the exceptional case where one should worry about clinical
dehydration. But it does occur!

>Millions of years of breast-fed mammals attest to
>the effectiveness of nursing as the sole source of newborn food, and
>the primary source of food for young kids.

Unless you are willing to accept the infant mortality rate of
the cavemen (what, 20%?), these teleological arguments don't
hold water (or milk :-) ). The issue has to be considered in the
context of modern society.

[anecdotal comments about the failings of some individual
doctors deleted]

Why do you imagine that because some doctors take kids off of
breastfeeding for bad reasons, that all reasons to supplement
with formula are bad?
>
>org. is a mistake. Take all advice with a grain of salt, but LLL
>can certainly supply some useful, fact-driven advice.
>
This is reasonable. But my complaint was with the attitudes of
*some* LLL members, not the organization as a whole.
Again, read my post before flaming me with straw man arguments.


Brian
From: dgs@cnmss.tredydev.unisys.com (Dave G. Sokolowsky)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: New Baby
Date: 15 Apr 92 14:27:56 GMT
Organization: Unisys Corporation, Tredyffrin

In article <1992Apr14.132939.3817@iscsvax.uni.edu> glenn7914@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:
>
>        I just found out that I am pregnant and would like some advice from the
>others who have been there.  We have a 2 1/2 YO daughter and would like to know
>how long to wait before telling her.  We have already discussed with her that
>someday it might happen but never anything about when this will occur.  I also
>would like any suggestions on cute ways to let the grandparents know that
>Kelsey will be a big sister.
>                     
>           
>                   Thanks,
>   
>          O   O    
>         /^\o/|\                
>         / \K/ \           Nancy "The Momma" Glenn
>             

I feel you should not wait to tell her.  Our daughter was also 2 1/2 when we
found we were pregnant with our second.  I guess she was the third to find out.
Congratulations.
From: donna@spock.att.com (Donna J. Dixon)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Newborn advice/anecdotes wanted
Date: 12 Apr 92 00:13:12 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: AT&T

From article <LAS.92Apr9094648@puffies.ai.mit.edu>, by las@ai.mit.edu (Lynn Stein):
> Some good friends of mine just had her first baby (one week old
> tomorrow).  The mom is having a particularly rough time of it and is
> getting somewhat depressed.  She has lots of `official' advice (from
> MDs, nurses, books, etc.) and some informal advice (I have a 2yo and a
> -2mo), but I think one thing that would be particularly helpful for
> her is stories of ``I've been there'' or, even better, ``yeah, I'm
> there right now/was there last week.''  I'll describe some of the
> particular situation below.  If you have something comforting to say,
> please email me and I'll pass it along to my friend.
> 
>

  I have a 6 week old girl who is colicky.  Things have been rough with
  her colic and my depression and anxiety.  I'm trying to have an upbeat
  attitude now!  Tell your friend to take one day at a time and not to
  put too much pressure on herself or else she'll start having anxiety
  attacks.  I have been put on a weak sedative because I let it all get
  to me.  Also, she'll probably have a harder time sleeping if she lets
  it get to her which will just worsen the depression and anxiety.
    

    I could use some of those funny stories also!



-- 
--
Donna J. Dixon
Naperville, Illinois
{ ...!att!spock!donna, donna@spock.att.com }
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: lauraf@notavax.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Laura Floom)
Subject: Re: Seeking information about Tuboplasty
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 15:23:37 GMT

In article <tsrjdfp.valentin@netcom.com> valentin@netcom.com (Valentin Pepelea) writes:
>In article <1992Apr6.155520.22401@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov>
>lauraf@notavax.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Laura Floom) writes:
>>
>>Yes! Another offensive post by Eric Lee Green. It seems like whenever I see
>>his name on a post I can expect it to be mean spirited. In the last few weeks
>>...
>>Am I alone in feeling this way?
>
>I have no doubt that you are not the only one, but I certainly hope that you
>are in the underwhelming minoroty.

Well so far the mail I have received has been 7 supporting my frustration and 
and absolutely no one has written in support of him. Several people mentioned
they hadnt read the original since he is in the kill file.
>
>Eric Lee Green on the other hand is breath of fresh air, as he seems the only
>one on the net to exclude his personal superficial perceptions, and submit
>opinions that can be summerized by
>
>	"I heave read and analyzed the research, therefore I know how to treat
>	 children."
>
Really? Was the what he was doing when he told Kathie Riggle how to raise her
child based on his experiences with his cat? (And told her that all her 
daughters 'problems' were parenting faults). What fact was he using when he
accused Anne Paulson of bad parenting when she siad she wanted to teach her
son manners so he will be liked? How about the snide comments when Mike
Schmidt was talking about his daughters career choices. And let us not forget
the low point that prompted my flame - a woman writing in and asking for some
answers to her fertility problems.

>Hopefully, personal attacks will not scare Eric away from correcting our
>misguided impressions and beliefs. He continues to be my favorite author of
>news on both misc.kids and misc.education, and look forward to his next
>poster. We are all mature readers on this newsgroup and will not fall into an
>irreversible depression, emotional unstability or hopeless fear and guilt,
>simply by reading the opinions of another individual.

No, but we can get tired of his (and your) need to tell us what we are doing
wrong. I see you both as very angry people, and I hesitate to use any advice
that comes for such anger. As you probably know, you have been in my kill
file for some time, and now Eric is too. Someone told me about this post, so
I couldnt resist going to check it out.
>
>Is this feature not available on your news reader?

I still have a right to tell him how I feel. 

Laura Floom



Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: lauraf@notavax.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Laura Floom)
Subject: Re: Pregnancy Books
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 15:42:23 GMT

In article <1992Apr6.114004.13259@umiami.ir.miami.edu> ahelmers@umiami.ir.miami.edu writes:
>
>Ah yes, reading--what a concept.  That has also been a big loss for me.  Just
>as my son got old enough for me to start being able to finish real books, I
>have a new baby and no more time for stretching out on the couch with a
>book!  Actually, I can't even hit the library anymore anyway--a toddler in the
>reading room just is not a match made in heaven.

Check if any of your local libraries have Story Times for children . On
Monday nights we go to Pajama Story time at a small branch library. Jeffrey
sits and listens to the stories and songs while I get to browse around the
library. The library is small enough that I can see if he starts to wander
off. (No problem, when story time is over, all the other kids run off to do
arts and crafts, and Jeffrey is still sitting there all alone waiting for
more stories, I have to go get him and take him to the crafts).
>
>and then, there's always the net...:)

:-) YES!

Laura Floom
From: david@xlnt.com (David Johnson)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Chickpox in Pregnancy -- Update
Date: 13 Apr 92 21:10:23 GMT
Organization: XLNT Designs, Inc (XDI)

sdavis@nike.ColoSpgs.NCR.COM (Susan Davis) mentions:
[chickenpox vaccination]

I thought there was no effective chickenpox vaccine available.  We had a
chickenpox scare when my wife was exposed to chickenpox in her last trimester.
Fortunately she did not contract cp.
-- 
David Johnson
XLNT Designs, Inc. (XDI)
david@xlnt.com
the hapa haole
(or more precisely the hakka haole)
(or even more precisely, the hapa hakka hapa haole, or h^4)
From: janem@hpfcdc.fc.hp.com (Jane Marcus)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Both parents home (was Re: At what age is day care appropriate?)
Date: 14 Apr 92 21:27:19 GMT
Article-I.D.: hpfcdc.4570229
Organization: HP Fort Collins, Co.

It's unusual that I find myself on both sides of the fence, and I tend
to agree with EVERYONE who has posted...  My husband and I have done
everything we can to allow one of us to stay at home with the kids, and
I do wonder why others decide to have children when they have no intention
of being the everyday caregivers for their children, but could choose to
have one parent at home.  Sometimes I find myself questioning the priorities
of others when it comes to mixing careers and children.  On the other hand, 
I was the child of a frustrated stay-at-home mother.  It was clear to me as 
a child that my mother was very stressed; in many ways, it was a relief to 
our family when the family doctor suggested that she start to work outside
the home.  This was in the early 60's when it was mostly the norm to have 
a stay-at-home mom with small children, and I imagine it was difficult for 
my father to agree to putting my then 2 year old brother in daycare.  But 
for our family, this was absolutely necessary.  If someone were to have 
counselled my mother not to have kids, then I would not exist, so it seems
in my best interest :-) to accept that children can be wanted even though the
parents do not necessarily sacrifice their careers to have them.  I realize 
that the decision to stay at home with kids is a very personal one with many 
factors.

I would like to expand upon Salit's comments as to how we should be channeling
our energies, instead of engaging in flame wars (as entertaining as they may 
be).  My position is that we all need to work together to change the work
environment in the U.S.  Basically, I don't believe that small children should
be in daycare fulltime.  I especially don't like to see situations where
6 week old babies are being cared for all day long by a person also looking 
after half a dozen other kids.  Flame me if you will, but even the best of 
daycare situations don't seem adequate to me if a child is there for the 
majority of his/her waking hours.  IMHO, we all need to lobby to make the 
workplace more flexible.  We need to DEMAND job sharing, parttime jobs that 
come with benefits, extended parental leaves, etc.  We need to eliminate the 
potential for career setbacks when parents choose to stay at home.  But this 
will not happen if we accept the current state of affairs.  Personally, I try 
to keep on top of these issues in my workplace, lobby where I can, and work 
for positive change.  Any ideas on how to effectively work in this area?

My 2 cents,
Jane Marcus
janem@hpfclg.fc.hp.com
From: boucher@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Teresa Boucher)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Anti-cavity treatment for kids
Date: 15 Apr 92 20:01:35 GMT
Reply-To: boucher@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Teresa Boucher)
Distribution: na
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD

In misc.kids, leeba@mot.com (Leeba Salzman) writes:
>Has anyone had their kids teeth treated/coated to prevent cavities?
>If so, is there a minimum age?  Is it a one time treatment?  Were
>there any problems?
>
>Thanx in advance for any info.

Leeba:  I just got back from the dentist after taking my son there for
	his annual check-up.  Our dentist found a small cavity in one
	of his molars and suggested we get all of his molars sealed
	so that this does not occur again.  I have dental insurance
	through an HMO and the cost per sealant will run us $33 each.
	(We pay approximately 1/2).  Our dentist does not recommend
	sealing baby teeth.

	By comparison, my daughter who had her molars sealed earlier
	because my dentist felt her teeth were more susceptable to
	cavities, came away from this check-up "cavity-free".

	I'd go for the sealants and wish I would have had my son's teeth
	done earlier.  I think it's well worth the costs.

					     Hope this helps - Trese
From: CLH7@psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Pregnancy Books
Date: 15 Apr 92 13:53:58 GMT
 <1992Apr15.124950.7695@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>
Organization: Penn State University

In article <1992Apr15.124950.7695@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>,
watson@cbnewsl.cb.att.com(laura.k.watson) says: > > >
>Hmmm.  Well.  Presuming
>you could somehow hold onto the baby with just one hand, or prop it up on
>pillows, how would you hold the book and turn the pages with just the one
>the other hand?  Someone please give the details of this reading while
>breastfeeding technique.  It sounds mighty handy to me.
 > >Laura Watson

I had a couple of techniques for reading while nursing.  Magazines were
easier, especially things like Newsweek which is fairly thin.  I would fold
them open and hold them with one hand.  When I am holding Doug in th rocker
I use the hand along his back, keeping him close to me, to hold the book
and turn pages with the free hand.  I also have a small nightstand near the
rocker that I can put a book on and read--although it's harder to keep the
book open to the right page.  I was much more efficient at reading while
nursing when he was smaller.  Now, he either gets distracted by the page
turning, wants to eat the magazine, or is too heavy to support one-handed.
I also would eat while nursing sometimes.  Doug had some internal crying
signal that would detect the moment I was sitting down to dinner!
Fortunately, he is old enough now to enjoy CHEERIOS!!!!  How did we live
without them.
Mills.
Chris Himes
Newsgroups: misc.kids,alt.kids-talk,alt.parents-teens,misc.education
From: zane@ddsw1.MCS.COM (Sameer Parekh)
Subject: Re: Minors right of access to contraceptives?
Organization: ddsw1.MCS.COM Contributor, Chicago, IL
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 02:30:51 GMT


	I was planning on asking people about this...

	My high school I am *sure* will NEVER give out condoms.  Thus, I
thought, maybe *I* should start such a program...  I would take donations,
buy condoms, and make them available for people to use.. I will also mention
failure rates and related stuff...  (And of course, safer forms of sex which
do not involve coitus.)

	What does everyone think of the idea?  (Don't worry about the
administration yelling at me-- I can handle them--what about other factors,
such as whether people will be willing to donate money, whether it will be
abused, etc...)
-- 
Sameer Parekh zane@ddsw1.MCS.COM zane@infopls.chi.il.us| 
ap.3684@layout.Berkeley.EDU ___________________________/
___________________________/ STOP The War on Rights
Restore liberty in the United States - Vote Libertarian 1992
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: carolp@techbook.com (Carolyn Peterson)
Subject: Re: Preparing for Breastfeeding
Organization: TECHbooks of Beaverton Oregon - Public Access Unix
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 17:16:07 GMT

In article <18181@oasys.dt.navy.mil> dsegelho@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Diane Segelhorst) writes:
>
>Lastly, I second Lynn Cooper's opinion that breastfeeding is a two handed
>operation!  I could never get anything else done at the same time.


Diane,

I tried sending e-mail, but it bounced.

I needed help from a nursing specialist after my first child was born
because she had some sucking problems.  My own lack of experience
didn't help, either.  :-)

The specialist highly recommended only using one arm for the baby
while nursing.  This did work well for me.  How to do this?   When
nursing on the left side, use the right arm for child holding.
Support the baby's head with your right hand.  Your right arm holds
the baby close to you and about parallel to the ground, if you are
sitting up straight.  Your right elbow is around the diaper area.
The baby's back is against your arm, the front is pressed against your
body.

This leaves the left hand free for reading, using the phone, or what
ever you would like.  You need to be careful if eating, though, so you
don't drop crumbs into the baby's upper eye.  I could also walk around
while the baby was nursing, if I needed to.  This worked for about 4
or 5 months, then the baby was getting a little heavy to carry with
one arm and was also easily distracted.

This position is good after having a C-section because the baby can't
bump into the incision area.

For me, this was very helpful with the 2nd child.  Everytime I sat
down to nurse daughter #2, daughter #1 wanted attention, also.  I had
one arm free for reading, hugging or doing other little things for the
older child.

Of course, this may not work well for everyone, but it was great for
us. 
-- 
-------
Carolyn Peterson          
carolp@techbook.COM  
(No affiliation with Techbooks)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: riggle@adobe.com (Kathleen Riggle)
Subject: Re: Seeking information about Tuboplasty
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 18:04:25 GMT

In article <1992Apr6.155520.22401@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov> lauraf@notavax.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Laura Floom) writes:
>In article <92097.092440CXF12@psuvm.psu.edu> <CXF12@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>>In article <1992Apr4.032252.13176@usl.edu>, elg@usl.edu (Eric Green) says:
>>>
>>>From article <92092.093213SASMKW@vm.sas.com>, by <SASMKW@vm.sas.com>:
>>>> I am a 32 year old female who needs to undergo a tuboplasty in order
>>>> to have children and I'm scared.  Right now, I have less than a 1%
>>>
>>>No word here about tuboplasty. Not an area in which I have any
>>>searching for an adoptive parent. Many aren't "picked" because of
>>>"learning disabilities" or emotional difficulties caused by the
>>>turmoil in their lives.
>>>
>>>If your desire is to help a young person grow into a mature
>>>well-adjusted human being, well...
>>>
>>>If, on the other hand, you are more enamored of the biological
>>>symbolism of your ova and your husband's sperm creating a product
>>>which is undeniably yours, rather than upon the actual product and
>>>process of raising children...
>>>
>>>[additional comments deleted]
>>
>>I thought that this reply was really offensive.  First of all, it doesn't
>>have anything to do with the original post (I know -- I am guilty of the
>
>Yes! Another offensive post by Eric Lee Green. It seems like whenever I see
>his name on a post I can expect it to be mean spirited. In the last few weeks
>he has attacked one mother for saying she teaching her son manners so people
>wont dislike him, he has attacked one father for having two daughters
>whos professional choices were, in Eric's words, "womens jobs". And now, 
>someone has asked the net a question about a fertility issue and Eric gives her
>this! He has also reapeatedly tried to make parents of ADD children feel bad 
>about their choice of treatment. Sheesh. 
>
>
>The really scary thing is that this mean spirited person will soon be teaching
>children.
>
>Am I alone in feeling this way?
>


Nope.  I think Eric is conducting some experiment on misc.kid's
parents.  Most of the posts that he has responded to are usually
someone who has a genuine concern about something and could easily be
triggered to feel guilt about the situation.  Remember, the gospel
according to Eric is that my daughter is sensitive because we made her
that way.  Oh, and Dave and I never show her affection either.

So, we are just some experiment.  He's trying to see how many of us
crack.  So, when's the paper due, E?

Kathie

-- 
riggle@adobe.com