HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
From: shemminga@cix.compulink.co.uk (Stuart Hemming)
Subject: Re: eddings endings...
Reply-To: shemminga@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 16:37:09 +0000


In <1992Oct16.123828.3332@csdvax.csd.unsw.edu.au> we read

> fellow fantasy lovers
> I enjoyed reading the belgariad the Mallorean and the ellenium 
> (not sure of spelling)
> I'll confess that these series fit snugly into the typical fantasy plot
> in line with Lord of the Rings and The Sword of Shannara series etc...
> However, as mentioned previously, what makes Eddings' novels so gripping
> is in his uncanny ability to give his characters depth.
> My only dissapointment in his work is with regards to his ending to the 
> Mallorean! The death of the mute was no real loss to anyone (sorry 
> forget his name).  This is easy for me to say but he could of killed off 
> Belgarath or Polgara etc.  It was the end of the series so I don't see
> why he couldn't have delivered Belgarath (mortal?) to his place apart
> from this Earth.

I disagree, the worst ending was in the Ellenium, in fact is wasn't
even a real ending it just faded away.

--------------------------------------------------------------
| Who cares whos opinions these are?!                        |
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|------------------------------------------------------------|     
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|8-)
From: tao@fine.princeton.edu (Terry Tao)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
Subject: Re: The Beginning of a Philosophical Debate :)
Date: 15 Oct 92 01:21:26 GMT
Organization: Princeton University

If I remember correctly, once Garion pointed out to Torak that even his
mother didn't like him very much, Torak practically committed suicide by
running into G.'s sword.  Actually, the moment Zedar killed Durnik Zedar
knew that his cause was flushed down the toilet, and Torak seemed to show a
great reluctance to fight G.

Could Torak reform? somebody who demands 2000 hearts a year and decimates
countries in pointless wars and who has a whole hierachy of worshippers
devoted to evil deeds will find it tricky to change habits.. Also, killing
in self defense is justifiable, somehow I dont think the prophecies would
let either of them say "OK, lets sit down at a table, I have some proposals
and concessions for you.. "

Terry
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
From: brunborg@alkymi.unit.no (]dne Brunborg)
Subject: Re: The Beginning of a Philosophical Debate :)
Organization: Norwegian Institute of Technology
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 15:42:09 GMT

In article <1992Oct15.012126.9265@Princeton.EDU>, tao@fine.princeton.edu (Terry Tao) writes:
> If I remember correctly, once Garion pointed out to Torak that even his
> mother didn't like him very much, Torak practically committed suicide by
> running into G.'s sword.  Actually, the moment Zedar killed Durnik Zedar
> knew that his cause was flushed down the toilet, and Torak seemed to show a
> great reluctance to fight G.
> 
> Could Torak reform? somebody who demands 2000 hearts a year and decimates
> countries in pointless wars and who has a whole hierachy of worshippers
> devoted to evil deeds will find it tricky to change habits.. Also, killing
> in self defense is justifiable, somehow I dont think the prophecies would
> let either of them say "OK, lets sit down at a table, I have some proposals
> and concessions for you.. "
> 
> Terry

Freud could probably get quite a lot out of Torak's death and the last minutes of
his life. Torak wasn't evil in the beginning, he became so after trying to take 
the Orb. Doing so, he became a thief, and wasn't much respected by the other
gods. Lacking respect, he tried to get attention by acting evil. Having staerted,
he soon found out that he could not stop, as the evil spirit had seized control
of his body and his mind. He had some clear moments, though, when writing the
message to (Bel)Garion (in the Mallorean).
When he realised what he'd done, he cried and saved his "soul" (if gods have
souls) by killing himself. 

As for Zedar, when he killed Durnik, he realised that he gave Pol the strenght to
resist Torak's command of becoming His wife, and thereby giving Belgarath and
Garion the opportunity to challenge Torak and himself. The death of Durnik would
give the heros strenght to do what they did .(As I remember, Garion was never too
fond about killing, and I'm not so sure that Belgarath would have imprisoned
Zedar like that if he wasn't so "pissed off". He probably would have killed him
outright.)

Any opinions?
 

So long!

		Aadne Brunborg
		Norwegian Institute of Thechnology
		University of Trondheim
		NORWAY

	"If ye can't see it, it's right behind ye..."
From: asher@news.cis.ohio-state.edu (Marnita Asher)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
Subject: WARNING: SPOILERS FOR ELENIUM
Date: 16 Oct 92 11:58:23 GMT
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science

In article <memo.687415@cix.compulink.co.uk> you write:

>I disagree, the worst ending was in the Ellenium, in fact is wasn't
>even a real ending it just faded away.

>| Stuart Hemming       | shemminga@cix.compulink.co.uk       |

Hear ye! Hear ye!  That was awful!  Just what was that ridiculous, absolutely
idiotic and unbelievable business with Aphreal being Sparhawk's baby?

I gnashed my teeth all night.

Marnita
From: smp@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Samuel Penn)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
Subject: Re: Tolkien & Howard
Date: 16 Oct 92 13:39:12 GMT
Reply-To: smp@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Samuel Penn)
Organization: Laboratory for the Foundations of Computer Science, Edinburgh U

Howard is not the only fantasy writer which it can be claimed modern fantasy
is based on. How about Fritz Leiber? An awful lot of modern fantasy is based
on fantasy roleplaying games, the first of which was AD&D (well, D&D). Reading
some of the earlier Dragon articles, as well as the 1st edition DMG for AD&D,
Gygax says he based AD&D on the stories of such authors as Leiber, Edgar Rice
Burroughs and so on. In fact, he often mentions that AD&D was NOT based on
Tolkien.

So yes, Tolkien is probably the most famous (though personally I consider
Lord of the Rings to be among the worst books ever written), but there are
others to whome the 'origin of fantasy' can be attributed to.

Sam.
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
Subject: Spelling flames, was Re: TolkIEn vs Weis and Hickman debate
From: gajensen@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu
Date: 12 Oct 92 14:45:17 -0500
Organization: Miami University Academic Computer Service"

In article <1992Oct12.123455.19558@fys.ruu.nl>, volwerk@fys.ruu.nl (Martin Volwerk) writes:
> In <1992Oct8.153558.13425@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu> gajensen@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu writes:
>>Greetings...
>>The discussion concerning whether or not all modern fantasy is a spinoff from
>>Tolkein is probably a good arguement meriting much discussion. However, this is
>  ^^^^^^^ 
>  Could we for once start to write the RIGHT name here:
>           TOLKIEN                       
> That should not be so difficult.
> Martin.


Sigh. I'm hoping that you got the meaning of my post as well, rather than
simply bothering to correct my spelling. Yes, I admit I spelled the damn name
wrong, but ask any of my friends here, I simply can't spell words correctly
that have an 'I' and an 'E' next to each other unless I stop typing and do very
slow hunt and peck. Christ, it took them three months last year to get me to
spell thief and shield properly. Now I use keyboard macros for both so I don't
get spelling flames.

Anyhow, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt on this one, and assume
that you got the actual meaning of what I wrote. If you didn't, e-mail me at
the address below.

Greg Jensen
	e-mail to GAJENSEN@MIAVX1.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
From: volwerk@fys.ruu.nl (Martin Volwerk)
Subject: Re: Tolkein vs Weis and Hickman debate
Organization: Physics Department, University of Utrecht, The Netherlands
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 12:34:55 GMT

In <1992Oct8.153558.13425@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu> gajensen@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu writes:

>Greetings...

>The discussion concerning whether or not all modern fantasy is a spinoff from
>Tolkein is probably a good arguement meriting much discussion. However, this is
 ^^^^^^^ 
 Could we for once start to write the RIGHT name here:

          TOLKIEN                       

That should not be so difficult.

Martin.
From: md5i+@andrew.cmu.edu (Michael Welsh Duggan)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
Subject: An interesting topic...
Date: 15 Oct 92 14:27:48 GMT
Organization: Freshman, CIT general, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Here's an interesting  question. Consider the fact that Belgareth said
that the Cthrag Yaska was 'an ordinary stone before my Master took it.'
Yet, if this is so, how did Cthrag Sardius become into being? Was it
ordinary once? I know it was supposed to have fallen out of the sky. Was
this the Dark Prophecy's doing?
Just curious to see what you guys think...

-----------------------------------------------------
From the Desk of the Ever Awesome....
                                                     Michael Welsh Duggan!

& remember, the secret to learning how to fly is to throw 
yourself at the ground and miss...
-----------------------------------------------------
From: u2119863@csdvax.csd.unsw.edu.au
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
Subject: eddings endings...
Date: 16 Oct 92 02:38:28 GMT
Reply-To: u2119863@csdvax.unsw.edu.au
Organization: University of New South Wales

fellow fantasy lovers
I enjoyed reading the belgariad the Mallorean and the ellenium 
(not sure of spelling)
I'll confess that these series fit snugly into the typical fantasy plot
in line with Lord of the Rings and The Sword of Shannara series etc...
However, as mentioned previously, what makes Eddings' novels so gripping
is in his uncanny ability to give his characters depth.
My only dissapointment in his work is with regards to his ending to the 
Mallorean! The death of the mute was no real loss to anyone (sorry 
forget his name).  This is easy for me to say but he could of killed off 
Belgarath or Polgara etc.  It was the end of the series so I don't see
why he couldn't have delivered Belgarath (mortal?) to his place apart
from this Earth.

One more thing.  Not all fantasy Novels take after Lord of the Rings!
Just look at Mistress of the Empire for example (by far the most enjoyable
book I have ever read!)
If you haven't had a look at this series than you have missed out.
Definitly one to look up by Raymond.E.Fiest
From: t904155@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au (Damian Wong)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
Subject: Re: Question
Date: 16 Oct 92 09:32:52 GMT
Organization: RMIT Computer Centre
NNTP-Posting-Host: minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au

aephel01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu writes:

>I have read the Belgariad and the Mallorean (sp?) and 
>would like to read Eddings other series.  Could someone
>please let me know the titles of the books/the series,
>and are there any more books written by him?

>Thanks in advance

>-- no sig necessary --
>       Aza

Ellenium Series :
  1) The Diamond Throne
  2) The Ruby Knight
  3) The Sapphire Rose

  *** All three are out already. Quite awhile in fact.

Newest Series - The Tamuli Series :
   1) Domes of Fire

   *** The only one of the series out so far(hardback). Don't know the names
       of others in that series.


-- 
   *** <<<<<<<<<<<<<<< The Oman => The Omen with an `A' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ***

   Life's shit when you're feeling sick. AAARRRGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
From: gajensen@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
Subject: Tolkein vs Weis and Hickman debate
Date: 8 Oct 92 20:35:57 GMT
Organization: Miami University Academic Computer Service"

Greetings...

The discussion concerning whether or not all modern fantasy is a spinoff from
Tolkein is probably a good arguement meriting much discussion. However, this is
clearly not the proper place for such a discussion. I can't really think of
where to go, (Is there a rec.arts.fantasy literature?), but clearly not here.
The flames that are being generated can clearly go to alt.flame, as that goup
was designed for such use.

Greg Jensen
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
From: hennebry@plains.NoDak.edu (Michael J. Hennebry)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
Subject: Re: Will, but no Word!
Date: 7 Oct 92 19:43:10 GMT
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computing Network

In article <1992Oct6.040944.26033@usage.csd.unsw.OZ.AU> 2120158@hydra.maths.unsw.EDU.AU writes:
>maybe they just mutter to themselves!!!

According to Eddings Belgarath does just that.

-- 
Mike   hennebry@plains.NoDak.edu
"I still thing it's garbage, but beautifully cooked."   --  TP on TP
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
From: roking@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu (robert king)
Subject: Re: Weis and Hickman
Organization: Northeastern University, Boston, MA. 02115, USA
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 06:57:08 GMT

Hmmm.... who was it who said there are only about a dozen basic themes
in fantasy?  It is true to a point...  If you boil any book down far
enough, you will end up with about one of a dozen themes.

I would have to agree that the vast majority of fantasy works take seem
to take their elves & dwarves from a JRRT-esque point of view, but even
the Sword of Shannara (now *there* is a tolkein rip-off!) had the
dwarves and elves setup differently - the dwarves were still master
engineers, but hated living below ground.  They were also very good
friends with the elves.  There are others I could name, but I think the
point is made.

The Dragonlance cronicles could easily be called close to JRRT...

Raistlin = Golem (sneaky bad guy who tries to ruin everyones day)
Tanis = Aragorn (the noble leader with a checkered past who loves
                 someone he should not).

etc.

But the world is *very* different and rich in its detail.  That is what
makes the book enjoyable.  Doesn't that count for something?

Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
From: skwatkin@nyx.cs.du.edu (Steven Watkins)
Subject: Re: Weis and Hickman
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 92 02:45:00 GMT

Just a short note, but I noticed a similarity between the Darksword
Trilogy and the Arthurian legend.  I read the trilogy a long time ago, 
but I seem to remember an Arturian character, a lancelot char., a Mordred
and Morgaine char, a Guinevere char, an Excalibur char. (sort of the 
opposite of Excalibur--instead of being a magic sword in a mundane
world it is a magic-nullifying sword in a world full of magic), and a 
Merlin Char.  I remember thinking that Simkin and the priest/catalyst
were the merlin char split---Simkin being the magic and the priest being
the wisdom.  The plot was similar too, I thought.  It has been
quite a while since I thought of this subject, but I thought I might
want to throw it out.  I am well aware that Weis and Hickman wrote
some very unique works, but I think it is easy to be influenced by such
classic legends.  
  Any similarities between the two could be due to my imagination or
the vast number of versions of the Arthurian legend, but just as a thoughtful
exercise, think about the main point of the plot in each and try to 
correspond them to the other.
					-Steven K. Watkins
skw1@engr.uark.edu

----
Love is the triumph of imagination over intelligence.
  					-- H. L. Mencken
From: EXG106@psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
Subject: Re: WARNING: SPOILERS FOR ELENIUM
Date: 16 Oct 92 22:24:03 GMT
 <9210161958.AA06313@tulip.cis.ohio-state.edu>
Organization: Penn State University

In article <9210161958.AA06313@tulip.cis.ohio-state.edu>,
asher@news.cis.ohio-state.edu (Marnita Asher) says:
>Hear ye! Hear ye!  That was awful!  Just what was that ridiculous, absolutely
>idiotic and unbelievable business with Aphreal being Sparhawk's baby?
>
>I gnashed my teeth all night.
>
>Marnita

Whoa!  Hold on!  It wasn't so bad and it made perfect sense.  What was wrong
with it?
As for the fade-away ending, don't forget that Sapphire Rose wasn't the end,
the next series is already out.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eylon Geva            |   "Somebody please tell me that I'm dreaming,
geva@orville.psu.edu  |    It's not so easy to stop from screaming..."
exg106@psuvm.pdu.edu  |                            Iron Maiden
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
From: hennebry@plains.NoDak.edu (Michael J. Hennebry)
Subject: Re: Tolkien & Howard
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 17:27:26 GMT
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computing Network

In article <Bw7v9D.5Iv@dcs.ed.ac.uk> smp@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Samuel Penn) writes:
>So yes, Tolkien is probably the most famous (though personally I consider
>Lord of the Rings to be among the worst books ever written), but there are
>others to whome the 'origin of fantasy' can be attributed to.

Say Dan'l, got any kindling? I think I can find a match.

-- 
Mike   hennebry@plains.NoDak.edu
"I still thing it's garbage, but beautifully cooked."   --  TP on TP
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
From: u907736@postoffice.utas.edu.au (Edmund Chia)
Subject: Tolkien & Howard
Organization: University of Tasmania (Australia)
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 07:35:33 GMT

I know the newsgroup is alt.fan.eddings but since it apparently also doubles
as alt.fan.fantasy, I thought that I would send this here.

It appears that there is a large number of people out there who believe that
Tolkien is the founding father of fantasy and that writers like Eddings,
Weis & Hickman, et al are indebted to LOTRs for their ideas. However, no
one seems to consider R. Howard an influence on anyone. IMHO, Howard deserves
a place beside Tolkien as one of the founders of fantasy-literature. Yes,
that means any hero that waves a sword is modelled on Conan.

Edmund
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Tuesday, 13 Oct 1992 19:09:01 CDT
From: <U60145@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
Subject: Re: A couple of Questions
 <Bw2Cp4.n26@acsu.buffalo.edu>

Actually, in an interview a while back with a small newspaper in Arizona,
Eddings said something about wanting 12 books in the complete series.  These
12 would contain the two 5 book sets, and two individual volumes probably
on events before Garion's birth (like maybe Pol in Vo Wacune or Belgarath's
time with the godless ones).  I found the article on microfiche and if I can
still find the copy I made, I'll type it up and post it.  After this, I never
heard any more about more books in the series, and maybe Eddings changed his
mind and won't write any more.  All I know is at the end of the Malloreon it
said it was the end of the story, so don't expect anything after that time, but
we may get something dealing with those earlier times.  We can dream.... :)

Grant LeTourneau
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
Subject: The Beginning of a Philosophical Debate :)
From: jtulli@eagle.wesleyan.edu
Date: 14 Oct 92 20:31:55 EDT
Organization: Wesleyan University

i have a question...
i have read the Belgariad twice, and loved it, by the way, but recent goings-on
have gotten me pondering and i was wondering if anyone else out there has
thought of this...
Garion is supposedly the Child of Light and Torak the Child of Darkness.
at the very end of the series, the "Child of Light" not only points out to
Torak that no one loves him, but then he goes ahead and kills the guy (ok, the
god)...doesn't that make Garion's Lightness a bit more shadowy?  does anyone
out there except me think there's got to be a way for love to melt away evil;
isn't evil only the result of fear and insecurity that love has a magical way
of dispelling?
sorry to be rambling, but if Torak is evil because he kills people, and Garion
kills Torak, doesn't that make Garion evil?  kinda hypocritical i think.

what do you all think?

Jude
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
From: lwl@active.cis.upenn.edu (Lydia Leong)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings,rec.games.mud.tiny
Subject: Fate of the Belgariad
Date: 9 Oct 92 01:43:07 GMT
Followup-To: alt.fan.eddings
Organization: Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

The Belgariad MUSH is a dynamic MUSH with a strong emphasis upon 
role-playing. We are based on the world of David Eddings' Belgariad
and Malloreon; the current story began ten years after the end of
_Seeress of Kell_, and two years of RPG time have passed since then.
We're running PennMUSH 1.50 code, and are located at csa.bu.edu 4201
(128.197.10.202) 4201.

It's the first MUSH of its type and very different from the traditional
social/building MUSH; we invite you to come try it out.

It's currently running on restricted hours (weekdays from 5 pm EDT
to 8 am EDT, and 24 hours on weekends).

If you have no interest in this MUSH, you can skip to the next
article now.



Some of you may be aware that we are almost out of disk space. Our
efforts to find a new machine have been unsuccessful, but players
asked that the MUSH be kept around in some form.

The main RPG storyline which drives the MUSH is nearly at its end;
the estimated time until the major events have been completed is
two weeks from this date (10/8/92).  When the RPG is completed, the
MUSH will remain up for a few more days for people to @decompile
their stuff, and then it will go down.

HOWEVER, The Belgariad will be returning (hopefully) immediately, to
the same address, with a new database and new storyline. Set twenty
years after the conclusion of the previous story, the RPG will focus
on Mallorea. The plots are expected to be primarily political in 
nature; as per player request, there won't be another Prophecy and,
in general, players will have more control over the storyline.
The administrators have a lot of ideas for new plots; we're also
expanding the judge team and changing the way the 'story' is 'written'.
Many of the changes that players have requested will be incorporated
into the 'new' MUSH.

On Friday, October 9th, there will be a public meeting of the admins.
Players are invited to bring any questions they might have; the discussion
will focus on judging and plots.

A final note:

    In Wednesday's event, it appeared as if Eriond had died  (the universe
seemed to "stop" for a moment, as it had for Torak's death).  PLEASE
do not make any assumptions about Eriond's status. Many of the CHARACTERS
will assume that Eriond is dead. Players should not necessarily do so.
Some of the characters should probably be trying to find out what _really_
happened, though.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Lydia Leong - CSE '94 | Amberyl@Pern  | "Just try to make sure that Polgara's
lwl@seas.upenn.edu    | Polgara@Belg. |  not in the vicinity of anything 
lwl@imsasun.imsa.edu  | The Belgariad |  breakable when she gets angry. Like
lwl@csa.bu.edu        | "Why me?"     |  large cities and mountain ranges."
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings