From: cid@athena.mit.edu (Derek H Cedillo)
Subject: 747 Quotes, Engine model, Black Box, Descent Rate
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 02:41:04 GMT

Here is to all of you people who claim I am not
being scientific and making wild assumptions.
Enclosed you will find the quotes by a 747 TWA pilot, John Nance-aviation
saftey expert, and a little extra about the pins them selves and 
the black box that chris mentioned.    The rate of decent I mentioned
is included in here as well as my allegations about the
weight of the plane, and controllablity and altitude information.


Begin Quoted Sources-
-------------------------------------
Wed Oct 7th:
AMSTERDAM, Netherlands (UPI) -- Officials investigating Sunday's plane
crash which killed an estimated 250 people in an Amsterdam suburb
recovered the aircraft's black box data recorder Wednesday from the
rubble of demolished apartment blocks.
        But they said the recorder of the El Al 747-200F was badly damaged
and may not be able to provide the information investigators are
seeking.
[...]


Wed Oct 7th:
Seattle (UPI)
[...]
Four pins are used to connect engine struts to the 747's wings.
Engines are bolted to the struts.
        The fuse pins are designed to break under extreme stress, such as an
object hitting the engine, to prevent damage to the wing, Boeing
spokesman Christopher Villiers said.


Wed Oct. 5th:
      NEW YORK (UPI) -- A Boeing 747 such as the El Al plane that crashed
Sunday in Amsterdam can ordinarily still fly with two of its four
engines inoperative, pilots told United Press International.

        But if reports that the jumbo jet's two motors stopped working only a
few minutes after takeoff are correct, the plane may have been too low
for even the most skilled airman to land safely.

        Author and aviation safety specialist John Nance said the tragedy was
in some ways similar to a 1989 accident in which a United Airlines 747
lost both engines on one wing when a cargo door blew out after leaving
Honolulu en route to Sydney, Australia. The National Transportation
Safety Board concluded that the engines were lost when debris from the
door and cabin struck them.

        Nance emphasized that the United plane was flying at more than 22,000
feet, a height that gave the pilots time to execute emergency
procedures.

        An airline spokesman said Sunday the El Al plane crashed eight
minutes after takeoff from Amsterdam's Schiphol Airport.
``With two engines remaining on one side, you...could not maintain
straight and level flight,'' said Nance. ``You were going to sink at the
rate of 1,000 to 1,500 feet per minute.

        ``You either get rid of some of that weight, or you're not going to
maintain level flight,'' he said.

        What were the options available to pilot Isaac Fuchs?

        A TWA captain who flies the 747, speaking on a condition of
anonymity, told UPI that if two engines are lost the first thing to do
would be to ``dump fuel because if you are really, really heavy you're
going to have a difficult time sustaining altitude.''

        An El Al spokesman in Israel said the plane carried 114 tons of cargo
and 70 tons of fuel, for a takeoff weight of 710,000 pounds.

        ``That's too heavy for two engines,'' the captain said. ``If you take
away half the power of the airplane it cannot maintain altitude at those
weights. At light weights or at substantially less weight, you can
maintain altitude.''

[talk about rareness of accident edited out]

        Pratt and Whitney spokesman Mark Sullivan said 3,500 engines in the
JT9D series have so far been produced for use on the Boeing 747 and 767,
the Airbus A-310 and the McDonnell Douglas DC-10.

        Jack Gamble, public relations manager for Boeing Commercial
Airplanes, said the destroyed plane was a 747-200F, line number 362,
delivered to El Al on March 19, 1979. It had Pratt and Whitney JT9D-7J
engines.
-------
End of sources


If you would Like to see any other Info you dispute, 
let me know and I will look for the article.


Derek H Cedillo