From: dennis@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Thomas A. Dennis)
Subject: Re: sdf.lonestar.org:/u/df/suicide_quux
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 23:55:03 GMT

In <1992Oct10.215210.24043@udel.edu> awatson@pecan.cns.udel.edu (angela 
watson) writes:


> *oooooh*  I'm _not_ pleased with you Tom...

Oh, well.

> I spent part of my Satuday afternoon responding to your lengthy
>letter just to have you send a different version of it to the net... I don't
>think so.  

Sorry.

> If you get caught and arrested for murder, you might have a better
>chance of escaping punishment than if you get caught trying to kill yourself.
>When you get locked up in an underfunded, understaffed mental hospital/ward
>and are treated little better than a dog, I bet you'd prefer to be in
>prison or out on bond.  It's easier to get a lawyer to help you avoid a
>conviction than it is to try to get out of some mental hospitals... at
>least when you've killed someone you have some rights, when you're 
>considered insane or dangerous to yourself you lose them rather quickly
>in many places.

No, I wouldn't rather be in prison... find the worst, snake-pit prison in the 
nation, and any maximum-security state prison is much, much worse.
> 
> And just how many ASHers do you think are around the age of
>14??? I'm not writing to an audience that doesn't read this newsgroup... 
>Most of the people here are older than 14 and they _can_ cause some
>finacial mischief before they die.  

Sorry... I thought that you were addressing the question of suicide in general,
rather than the idealized "Suicide Is Painless" version.  I don't know what it
takes to be an "official" ASHer, but there are plenty of young adults on the 
net, and they aren't limited to the k12 groups... don't kid yourself otherwise.

> Crime, diease and malnutrition _do_not_ "do the job" of eliminating
>the "undesirables" from society.  Crime lowers property values, endangers
>innocent people's lives, and causes an increased demand for criminal
>investigation and punishment (which costs a great deal).  Diease and
>malnutrition drain the economy by lowering the potential output and
>by channelling more money into social welfare programs.  These people
>form a drain on the economy... it's quite expensive to just wait around
>until people die "naturally."

I didn't actually support these things, you know.

> Those who allow harmful actions to continue (like tobacco sales and
>illegal dumping) are either those in power or the finanical elite.  Sure,
>some of the individuals with less status make money off of these actions, but
>it's still smaller than the number who are adversely affected.  I bet
>the shop owner you mentioned wouldn't think of cutting off his 
>alcohol sales or nicotine and caffine related sales... they don't care if
>the product harms anyone so long as they get paid.

I can't address this statement... it makes no connection with reality or with 
what I wrote.

> I don't recall anyone here saying depression is a terminal
>condition.  Severe depressions are serious matters... when you no longer
>even what to go through the motions of breathing and eating, I don't
>think some bleeding heart should be allowed to force you to continue against
>your will.  Being controlled/oppressed is on thing, but NOBODY but ME
>is going to tell me I have to live.  No one has an obligation to continue
>life for as long as possible (otherwise people would avoid detrimental
>thinks like smoking and excessive alcohol consumption).

I'm not telling you to live... just saying that some of your rationalizations 
for committing suicide don't hold water.

> I don't remember anything about saying anthing "withholding"
>my attentions... but I have a faulty memory so maybe I did...

Try checking your previos postings.

> I said to take it to email because this thread has the potential
>to become quite nasty... I don't like expressing some of my personal
>beliefs here, but if you keep it up (Tom) I will...

BE still, my beating heart...

> Psycho Kitten


>-- 

>Psycho Kitten   \ zaphodb@brahms.udel.edu    \ Check my .plan \ Just a Grim
>Angela M. Watson \ awatson@pecan.cns.udel.edu \ for more info  \ Reaper 
wannabe

--

Tom Dennis                    |  I looked into the abyss,
dennis@alexia.uiuc.edu        |    and the abyss looked into me--
tadg0614@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu     |      and we both winked.
Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday