HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bs@faron.mitre.org (Robert D. Silverman)
Subject: Re: Bid this monster
Organization: Research Computer Facility, MITRE Corporation, Bedford, MA
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 00:17:23 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.200508.27721@cs.yale.edu> heintzelman-george@CS.YALE.EDU (George Heintzelman) writes:
:In article <1992Aug18.180004.17967@linus.mitre.org> bs@gauss.mitre.org (Robert D. Silverman) writes:

stuff deleted.....

:>:  N:  xx, T98xx,   KQxx, Kx
:>:  S:  Ax, AKQJxxx, ---,  Axxx
:>
:>Simply put, South has a 3 loser hand. Partner should be able to cover 2 of
:>them for the leap to 4H. South should simply bid 6H over 4H.
:	Um...hate to pop a little bubble here, but South has a
:*4*-loser hand.  I don't think, even with North jumping to 4H, that
 
4 losers?  K spades and KQ clubs is 3. the 4th card in a suit is NEVER
counted as a loser. As long as partner holds enough trumps [and 4H
makes that clear], the 4th club can never be a loser no matter what
partner's club holding is. 

:	Unfortunately, I don't see an easy way of finding this thing
:rigorously...If south starts cuebidding with 4S, say, North is most
:likely going to turn down the invite with 5H...I think? Would daring
:North's cuebid the KQ of diamonds?  If you're going to get there,
:though, either North or South, and most likely South, will have to
:make a shot in the dark.  As far as I can see, that is.
 
Sorry, but you are wrong. South clearly has the values to bid 6H
directly. Try constructing a variety of hands for North that justify
a 4H call. Find one that does not offer a play for 6H that is at worst
on a black suit finesse [which rates to be on].

:>--
:>Bob Silverman
:
:George Heintzelman
:


--
Bob Silverman
These are my opinions and not MITRE's.
Mitre Corporation, Bedford, MA 01730
"You can lead a horse's ass to knowledge, but you can't make him think"
From: jengelha@nic.gac.edu (Jeff Engelhardt)
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Subject: Bid this one for me
Date: 21 Aug 92 17:02:25 GMT

I was playing a quick one over break and we had an interesting hand.

North dealing

N:	A K Q J 9 6 5 3 2
	4
	J 9
	4

S:	T
	A K 8 3
	A 7 6 5
	A K Q T

How would you bid this?

--
Jeff Engelhardt
Campus consultant

jeneglha@gac.edu
next-cc@gac.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
From: lufeng@vis.toronto.edu (Feng Lu)
Subject: Conventional 1D opening
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto
Date: 14 Aug 92 20:47:42 GMT


Hello,

I help a friend to check if his treatment of 1D opening is legal. The
wording in GCC doesn't seem to be very clear.

The basic system is precision. 1D opening shows one of the three cases:
  1.  4-4-4-1 or 5-4-4-0 (shortness can be in any suit)
  2.  4-4 in majors
  3.  a 4 card major and a 5+ card minor

It can also be rephrased as:
  One 4 card major in an unbalanced hand, or two 4 card majors

If the above is illegal, what is the maximum legal subset? Thanks!

F. Lu
From: varvel@cs.utexas.edu (Donald A. Varvel)
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Subject: Re: you be the judge
Date: 13 Aug 1992 01:04:43 -0500
Organization: U Texas Dept of Computer Sciences, Austin TX
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

In article <2593@tivoli.UUCP> taylor@foraker.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Eric Taylor) writes:
>In article <VARIS.92Aug11214228@trillian.ae.utexas.edu>, varis@trillian.ae.utexas.edu (Varis (Carey)) writes:
 
>|> Well, just to add my 5c.
 
>|> 98xxx AQTx QT Qx is better than a limit raise.  LTC is the way to go, guys.
>|> Nuff said there.

>Subtracting 1/2 loser for each Queen more than Aces, you have
>a 9 loser hand.

Uh, Eric, that rule only goes for queens that are being counted as
nonlosers, so to speak.  There's only one here.  The two minor-suit
queens might as well be deuces as far as LTC is concerned, but they
are still useful cards.  In that respect, LTC undervalues this hand.
If partner doesn't have the SQ the 5 spades are worth a nonloser,
but if partner *does* have that card this hand is worth 3 losers in
spades.  And partner is odds-on to have the SQ.  (Partner has at
least 5 spades.  Opponents have at most 3.)  I count this hand as
8 losers in LTC, with 3 plus values.  While it is possible to
construct hands most of us would open that don't make game, and
largely because of the minor-suit queens the opponents can't make
anything at the 4-level, those hands generally have 8 losers.
(E.g., AKJxx Kx Jxx Jxx.)  In other words, Bob probably wouldn't
open them.

>Just out of curiosity, would anyone consider trying to buy the hand
>in 3 NT given a suitable hand from partner?  (IMPS or PAIRS)

>Since you have all of the tenaces, would you try NT immediately or
>would you start with some forcing bid first and risk not being
>declarer?  You certainly don't want to put your hand down
>for fear of blowing partner's cool before than hand has been played :-)

1. "All of the tenaces?"  AQxx of hearts, certainly, but Qx in
   each minor?  Nice holdings to be led up to, but not even
   stoppers.
2. Since *I'm* your usual partner, I think you should take the
   chance.  It takes quite a bit to blow *my* cool.

-- Don Varvel (varvel@cs.utexas.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
From: kray@sevior (Kel Raywood)
Subject: Re: 2C on 2-suiter
Reply-To: kray@ubcd04.physics.ubc.ca (Kel Raywood)
Organization: Dept of Physics, UBC, Vancouver 
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 17:23:47 GMT

In the book "Intermediate Bridge in Three Weeks" by Alan Truscott
(cover design copyright 1990 - Bob Silverman)
the author suggests opening the following hand with a strong 2C

AKQT6
AKQ52
Q74
-

and bidding 2S over a 2D response with the intention of bidding hearts on the
next round.

I agree with other posters who have suggested that on this hand, a 1S would
be rarely passed out.
Kel Raywood
From: bs@gauss.mitre.org (Robert D. Silverman)
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Subject: Re: Try this one
Date: 22 Aug 92 11:46:25 GMT
Organization: Research Computer Facility, MITRE Corporation, Bedford, MA

In article <1992Aug22.13602.23148@ms.uky.edu> jhaywood@ms.uky.edu (Joel D Haywood) writes:
:My partner had this hand in a club game last night.  I'd like to see how others
:would bid it.
:
:You have K 8 6 3 2
:         ---
:         A 3
:         A K Q 8 5 3
:None vulnerable at pairs (not the greatest field)
:
:Partner opens a second seat 1D (playing strong NT), you bid 1S, and, then,
:partner raises to 2S.  Now what is your bidding plan?
 
None, because the bidding is already screwed up.

This 6-5 hand is certainly strong enough to reverse, so why
is it bidding its shorter (and weaker!) suit first?

This hand should start with 2C over 1D, then bid spades.
 
As I keep saying, it is hard to recover from an auction, once you
have mis-described your hand. 
 
However, even in the actual auction I have a nice, simple call
over 2S and that is 5NT. Why is my next call even in doubt?

--
Bob Silverman
These are my opinions and not MITRE's.
Mitre Corporation, Bedford, MA 01730
"You can lead a horse's ass to knowledge, but you can't make him think"
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
From: skataba@pbhyf.PacBell.COM (Sam Atabaki)
Subject: Re: cue-bidding question
Reply-To: skataba@PacBell.COM (Sam Atabaki)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 17:32:34 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.135627.24202@Princeton.EDU> spencer@phoenix.princeton.edu (S. Spencer Sun) writes:
>
>When cue-bidding, if one has multiple potential cue-bids, is there any
>particular rule you can use as to which one to bid first, or do you sort
>of just play it by ear...
>
>          AT954
>          Q92
>          KQ94
>          A
>
>J                   32
>AT875               K43
>J652                T83
>T52                 Q8764
>
>          KQ876
>          J6
>          A7
>          KJ93 
>
>The bidding was, I think, fairly straightforward.  Duplicate scoring,
>both vul, dealer north (my partner).  Opponents were silent throughout
>
>   1S - 2N (Jacoby)
>   3C - 3D
>   3S - 4C
>   4N - 5S (RKC)
>   6S - all pass
>	
>opponents did not lead a heart for unknown reasons (it's the only unbid
>suit) and the contract makes (my partner was aware he was bidding a slam
>that goes down with the correct lead, but bid it anyway, dunno why)
>
>Commentary on the hand thus far is welcome, but my real question is,
>suppose either of us had held the HA?  If I have it, then at round two, do
>I show DA or HA first?  How about round 3, do I show CK or the other ace
>first?  Are there any sort of guidelines or do you just wing it...
>

General guidline for cue bidding:
	1. Cue bid the suit that keeps bidding the lowest, ie, with Ad
	   and Ah you cue bid diamonds first.
	2. Always show an ace before a void.

When choosing between a K and an ace, naturally you should cue bid
the ace. One possible exception may be when you have AK of a suit
and ace of another suit. If you have already shown the ace of first
suit, on your next bid you may rebid the same suit to show the
king only if this bid keeps bidding lower than cue bidding the
second ace.

-Sam Atabaki

Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
From: the@cltr.uq.oz.au (The Appleton)
Subject: Re: The Butler Scoring Method (was Re: Toronto Nationals selection #1)
Organization: Centre for Language Teaching and Research, Uni of Queensland, AUSTRALIA.
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 03:46:30 GMT

avir@chen.bgu.ac.il (Avi Roy Shapira) writes:

>Professor WHO? writes:
>:
>: Some background:
>: The Finals of the National Imp Pairs was depressing for the pairs who was
>: sitting E-W in the evening and N-S in the afternoon.  It is public
>: knowledge that when opponents bid and make a flat game against you, you
>: will lose about 2 imps on the Butler scoring method - average over all
>: tables of a large field is imped against your score.

>There is a debate as to how many extreme results should be removed. IMHO,
>it is probably best to keep more than half the scores, while removing as
>close to half the scores as possible. This means that if you have 5-8
>scores, you take out one score from each end, with 9-12, you remove
>2 scores from each end,  with 13-16 you remove 6 scores, and so on.

This 'filtering' of results is a very gross method of forming
an average.  It would be much better to form an average weighting 
the scores towards the middle more than those towards the ends,
but not in such a yes no pattern as Butlers are commonly done.

I suggest either a simple triangular filter, or even a normal
curve filter.


However, in this day of computers, I would much more strongly recommend
TOTALLY CROSS IMPING the field, and then taking some filtering of
the match scores.  This would be a much better reflection of the match
than the board by board ( where applicable, of course.)

I should say that coming from a state and a country (Queensland and
Australia, respectively) which use Butlers in whole or in part to choose
state/national teams, it remains a HIGHLY unsatisfactory method
of comparison.




D. A. Appleton

daa@maths.uq.oz.au
From: taylor@foraker.tivoli.com (Eric Taylor)
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Subject: Re: NT with a partial stopper
Date: 21 Aug 92 19:57:53 GMT
Organization: TIVOLI Systems, Inc.

In article <1992Aug19.185110.1071@linus.mitre.org>, bs@gauss.mitre.org (Robert D. Silverman) writes:
|> In article <1992Aug19.150031.27773@cfa.harvard.edu> willner@cfa.harvard.edu (Steve Willner) writes:
|> :
|> :In article <1560@idacrd.UUCP>, desj@ccr-p.ida.org (David desJardins) writes:
|> :[most of article deleted.]
|> :>   The hand is AK/Jxx/AKxx/KQT9 and the auction is 1H-?.
|> :>  Everyone (even Bob, I think?) would agree on double after 1H-P-P-?.
|> :
|> :Don't be so sure about the last.  Followup over 1S is still a big
|>  
|> Bzzt. Wrong.  I most definitely *balance* with a double on this hand.
|> 
|> :problem.  Sure, you cue bid, but what do you do when partner persists
|>  
|> "Sure, you cue bid"?
|> 
|> A cuebid would show SPADE SUPPORT in most partnerships, and in absence of
|> discussion [playing with a stranger known to be a good player] I would
|> take it as a very strong spade raise, not a general force.
|> 
|> If all partner can do is bid 1S over your double, then I believe the
|> best call is PASS. 

Lawrence's book on balancing shows many examples of responder
bidding at the 1 level with as many as 10 points (In an effort not to
hang partner for bidding your points).
Balancer is expected to bid again with any sort of a decent hand (i.e.
15 points or more).

I noticed no one responded to my idea of treating this
hand as a 2 suited minor.  Isn't the wealth of extra points
enough to compensate for the less than ideal distribution?
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
From:  (martino@courier6.aero.org(Nick Martino))
Subject: Re: A Matchpoint Decision
Followup-To: rec.games.bridge
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 20:39:41 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.145534.28787@rayssd.ssd.ray.com>,
sgm@sgfb.ssd.ray.com (Myerson) wrote:
> 
> Matchpoints. None Vulnerable.
> 
>   Dummy:  Tx, Kx,  Kxx, KJxxxx
>   You:    xx, Axx, QJx, AQxxx
> 
> You, as dealer, opened 1N (13-16). 
> LHO passed and partner invited with 2N.
> RHO, you, and LHO all passed.
> 
> The opening lead is a small heart.
> You win in dummy and lead a club towards your hand.
> Your RHO shows out, discarding an extremely encouraging spade.
> 
> The question: Should you cash out for +120,
> or try to sneak a diamond through for +150?
> 
> Steve Myerson (sgm@sgfb.ssd.ray.com)

Sorry, it's too late to go for the overtrick now.  Best play would have
been to win the ACE of hearts in hand and put the JACK of diamonds on the
table.  At this point, LHO *knows* you have 2 heart tricks and 6 club
tricks and he can be pretty sure that you don't have a spade stopper, else
you would have carried on to 3NT.  These opponents would have to be
catatonic to allow a diamond to slip through now.
 




*******************************************************************************
                                                                          
*                                                                          
          
*    martino@courier6.Aero.org (Nick Martino)                           
    *    
*    The Aerospace Corporation                                             
 *
*                                                                          
 * 
******************************************************************************

 
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
From: ECL4JN2@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (Jack Newsbaum)
Subject: Re: you be the judge
Date: 12 Aug 92 11:38:30 PDT

In article <l8gtjjINNbh4@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>, on 12 Aug 92 02:24:51 GMT,
zilch@planb.Eng.Sun.COM (John Hoffman) writes:

>
>
>    (S) 
>    98xxx
>    AQTx
>    QT
>    Qx
>
>re various posts...
>Is there really a valid assertion that South should not go to game on this one?
>Hope I get to bid this one against the pointer counters sometime.
>You can trade all 4 queens for deuces and still make 4 spades in your sleep.
>And if you can't quite make it, it's a sure thing that the opponents
>have at least 3 or 4 of something their way.
>
Of course there is! You are going by the outcome on this particular
hand. But what's your point? North would clearly raise a limit jump
raise to game with the strong hand he has here.

But give North a typical minimum opening hand, such as

AKJxx  Kx  Jxx  xxx

and you are off 4 tricks from the git-go.

If you gave North a chance to pass instead of overbidding on the
South hand, you'd end up in 3S where you belong.

>Admittedly, the aces are quite nice on this hand.
>
>John
>
    ====Jack====
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
From: kibler@turing.ICS.UCI.EDU (Dennis Kibler)
Subject: bidding slam
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Date: 12 Aug 92 17:15:58 GMT



>AT9
>AKJ92
>-
>AKQ75

>Bidding starts of with (surpise) 3 passes.

>How to open this one (we're playing dutch acol, but i'm
>interested in any natural system) ?

>And how to respond with the following east hand:

>QJ3
>Q
>QJ95
>T8643


There are 19 points and 13 diamonds outstanding, so I open 1 heart.

A possible sequence using 2/1.

 1h   1nt
 3c   4c
 4d*  4h     4d is Kickback RKB
 4nt  5c*    no kings
 ??

What does partner hold for his 1nt bid, given that he holds no
Aces or Kings. Very likely 3 queens. Go to 7 clubs.

Alternatively:
   1h   1nt
   3c   4c
   4s   5c*     no first round controls
   5d   5h*     second round heart control
   5nt* 6c      5nt- anything else; 6c: no
   ??

Unfortunately now we know partner has a singleton heart, which
lessens chances that he holds the queen and I would pass.
From: varvel@cs.utexas.edu (Donald A. Varvel)
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Subject: Bridge suppliers
Date: 15 Aug 1992 20:20:50 -0500
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: coltexo.cs.utexas.edu
Keywords: Books

In hope that somebody is keeping a FAQ (Hello, out there?)
I thought I would post the addresses of the places I usually
order books.

As an aside, there was a time when bridge was popular enough
in the US to justify bridge books in some ordinary bookstores.
Bridge is no longer that popular.  Further, stores that sell
new books are now chains with central ordering.  Bridge books
must in general be bought at tournaments and by mail order.
I think that's sad.  People who attend only small tournaments
with no book display, or who don't attend tournaments at all,
must buy their bridge books sight-unseen.

Baron Barclay Bridge Supplies
3600 Chamberlain Lane, Suite 230
Louisville, KY 40241
1-800-274-2221

The Bridge Source (ACBL bookstore and gift shop)
c/o ACBL
2990 Airways Blvd.
Memphis, TN 38116-3847
1-800-444-ACBL

The Bridge World
39 W. 94 St.
NY, NY 10025-7124
(212) 866-5860

Dallas Bridge Books & Supplies
P O Box 380707
Duncanville, TX 78138-0707
1-800-442-7434

Dallas Bridge Books is Ed Titsworth, who shows up at tournaments
around here.  Among other things he has a supply of S.J. Simon's
_Why You Lose At Bridge_.

I hope others will be able to add to this list.

-- Don Varvel (varvel@cs.utexas.edu)
From: desj@ccr-p.ida.org (David desJardins)
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Subject: Re: No-trump indicates stopper, but--!
Date: 14 Aug 92 14:17:21 GMT
Organization: IDA Center for Communications Research, Princeton

Eric Taylor writes:
>With LHO openings and you having a 20 points hand, you can expect
>your partner to have 1 ace or 1 king 50% of the time.  And the lead
>will be from the dangerous side.  I would guess that a NT contract would go
>down more than 50% of the time with a lead of the original bid suit.

Dr. Weird <boyiny@math.mit.edu> writes:
>Depends, I guess.  Still, if partner has shape it can be shown over 1N
>and we would not be playing no-trump.  Certainly I expect that to happen if
>the opponents had nine hearts.

I strongly agree with Eric.  There is an even more serious problem with
the 1NT bid or rebid by the strong hand than the lack of a stopper.
That is the serious likelihood of playing NT from the wrong side.

The main reason to bid 1NT, in my view, is to try to get to 3NT when
partner has a few scattered values.  Let's look at the hands where that
is right.

If partner holds Qx or Qxx of hearts, then you are only going to make
3NT if partner also has the ace of clubs, and it doesn't matter which
side you play from.  If partner holds Axx of hearts, then you have a
double stopper when played from either side.

However, it seems just as likely that partner's stopper is Kx or Kxx or
Ax.  In any of these cases, partner is quite unlikely to hold the ace of
clubs as well; that would really be a lot to expect.  And with one of
these holdings, plus a couple of queens and jacks, you are very likely
to make 3NT from partner's side but you have no chance from your side.

                                        David desJardins
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
From: skataba@pbhyf.PacBell.COM (Sam Atabaki)
Subject: Re: Play 6H (corrected version)
Reply-To: skataba@PacBell.COM (Sam Atabaki)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 18:54:32 GMT

In article <mlg.713713464@volvo> mlg@siemens.com. (Michael Greenberg) writes:
> 
>Yet another slam to play:
> 
>IMPS
>Neither vul
>Dealer South
> 
>N:   -   AKJTxx   Qxx   Axxx
> 
>S:  KJ8x   xx     AKx   KQT9
> 
>Bidding:
>1N - 2D* - 2H - 6H
>2D is transfer
> 
>Lead 2s
> 
Ruff low on the board, Ah (watch what opponents play!), low diamond
to ace. Now lead your last heart and depending on what west plays
(and what was played on the first trump), decide to finess or not.

If Qh drops it would be easy- you can try for 7. If You lose a trump
trick you must play to bring in the clubs. Cash all the trumps except
one followed by 2 rounds of diamonds ending in dummy. Now lead a low
club to K and watch what is played! -:) By now you should have a 
good idea of distributions, so either play for a 3-3 clubs break or
finess. You have the luxury of finessing either way.

-Sam.
From: mike@fowler.arch.su.oz.au ()
Subject: bidding
Reply-To: mike@fowler.arch.su.oz.au ()
Organization: Dept of Architectural & Design Science, University of Sydney, Australia
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 01:51:57 GMT

Sorry, mistake with East's diamonds. Q should be J.

This hand came up at friendly game last night. A discussion ensued on
how to bid it. What contract should one get to (as against what might be the
actual best? At what stage of the bidding does either E or W become aware
of each other's strength?

      W (Dealer)            E

	  Kxx                   AJ
	  K10xxx                Ax
	  A                     KJ10xxx
	  AKxx                  Jxx


Dr Mike Rosenman                         Ph:   +61-2-692 3549
Key Centre of Design Quality G04         Fax:  +61-2-692 3031
University of Sydney                     Email: mike@archsci.arch.su.oz.au
NSW 2006 Australia
From: taylor@foraker.tivoli.com (Eric Taylor)
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Subject: Re: A Matchpoint Decision
Date: 20 Aug 92 00:16:21 GMT
Organization: TIVOLI Systems, Inc.

In article <1992Aug18.145534.28787@rayssd.ssd.ray.com>, sgm@sgfb.ssd.ray.com (Myerson) writes:
|> Matchpoints. None Vulnerable.
|> 
|>   Dummy:  Tx, Kx,  Kxx, KJxxxx
|>   You:    xx, Axx, QJx, AQxxx
|> 
|> You, as dealer, opened 1N (13-16). 
|> LHO passed and partner invited with 2N.
|> RHO, you, and LHO all passed.
|> 
|> The opening lead is a small heart.
|> You win in dummy and lead a club towards your hand.
|> Your RHO shows out, discarding an extremely encouraging spade.
|> 
|> At this point, you realize the opponents can make 3 or 4 spades,
|> as your only tricks are two hearts and possibly 2 diamonds.
|> Your first thought is to cash out for +120,
|> to beat all the pairs going -140, -170, -420 defending against spades,
|> or possibly +50 for beating 4S.
|> 
|> Then the realization hits that 3C or 4C will make +130,
|> so +120 may not be enough.
|> 
|> You also know that this bidding sequence will
|> probably not be duplicated at other tables.
|> 
|> The question: Should you cash out for +120,
|> or try to sneak a diamond through for +150?
|> 
|> Steve Myerson (sgm@sgfb.ssd.ray.com

You made a mistake at trick 2.  You gave Righty the oppotunity
to signal.

You should have played diamonds first.
LHO might continue hearts.
Once his partner signals spades, he never will.