Newsgroups: bit.listserv.gaynet
Date:         Wed, 12 Aug 1992 13:01:53 -0400
From:         gaynet@ATHENA.MIT.EDU
Subject:      GayNet Digest Volume 5 Issue 619

In this issue:
                           Gay Community News
                     Identity Politics and Labeling
                        Stone Phillips and Bush
                           Queer Scholarships
           GLB seminars/lectures/conferences...need contacts
                    Questionnaire on Heterosexuality
                             Band on Track
                              IN THE LIFE
                    REPUBLICAN CONVENTION - HOUSTON
                         Atlatna-- here I come!
               Re: 1993 National LGBT Studies Conference
                           lies by ommission?

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 12 Aug 92 08:51:55 EST
Subject: Gay Community News
From: An Anonymous Sender

Thanks to Ron Buckmire for the info about Gay Community News.  What I was
interested in, though, is hearing people's thoughts about why the paper has
been in trouble lately.  There has been some talk about how the lesbian and
gay community has changed in various ways, and some criticism of the paper
for not "keeping up."  What do people think about this?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 07:54:26 -0500
From: Mike! <mike.w.miller.40@nd.edu>
Subject: Identity Politics and Labeling

michael j pastor iii, who can post from wherever he damn well pleases as
far as I'm concerned, writes:

>Part of the reason I do not like Gay as an ethnic identity (and you can
>guess what I think of Queer), is that it automatically creates an
>us-them style relationship.  Us-them relationships in social causes
>rarely become "we."

Not necessarily -- R. Derrick Mickle brought up identity politics in
response to this issue but didn't take it far enough.  You have to realize
that whether you like it or not, there are very real us-them distinctions.
They exist between blacks, asians, hispanics, and white; they exist between
men and women; they exist between Jews and Christians; and they exist
between LGBT people and heterosexual people.  Yes, underneath it all we are
all people (vomit) but there are very real differences between people with
different histories, different cultures, and different life experiences.
An us-them relationship isn't necessarily bad *if* its merely descriptive
and not used in a game of one-upmanship.  (What's a good non-sexist
equivalent for "one-upmanship"?)

We cannot sublimate our culture, our differences, our life experience
simply to blend with the majority them.  This is the essence of third phase
thinking in identity politics.

VERY QUICK LESSON IN IDENTITY POLITICS.  I'll use the example of women in
literature.  First phase id-pols said "Hey, all you people teaching books
only by men -- there were some great women writers too!  You should realize
that some women have achieved equal greatness as male writers!"  More of a
"Don't forget we're out here" mentality.  Second phase id-pol is based more
on the thought "Hey, not only are some women good writers, there are a
bunch of them out there and there would be more, but the patriarchal system
oppresses women authors.  Start promoting women equally -- women can write
just as well as men!"  The basic mode is "I can be anything you can be".
This is the mode of feminism which existed in the 60s, 70s, and into the
80s, and still persists in many areas.  This is also the traditional
starting place of gay politics -- "We're as good of people as you are!"
Third phase identity politics is the phase that you will find the
progressive black, womens, and gay movements in.  It's about reclamation,
about honesty to self and not reshaping the self to satisfy the larger
masses.  In the women and literature example, third phase id-pol says "No
wonder women have never been much recognized as great writers -- we're
judging "great" by male created standards.  Now is the time for women to
write about the experiences and from the perspective of women.  Women's
literature must stand and have not just a validity, but a validity and
stake equal to that traditionally held by male literature.  The stories and
experiences of women are as important in their own right."  Look at the
black community -- for many years african-americans had to mortgage their
cultural heritage.  To be "accepted", they dressed "white", spoke "white"
English, ignored or only quietly celebrated their wonderful African
heritage.  Well now the black community is reclaiming its culture, it
heritage.  It's rediscovered that uniquely black manners of dress and
speech are equally valid as modes of expression and they are in fact
essential for voicing the black experience.

Summary:  Recognize that there is an us and a them.  Recognize and
celebrate it.  Change will come through a combination of second phase work
(the "assimilationists", NGLTF, HRCF) and third phase work (the "radicals",
QN, ACT-UP).  Or, most succinctly:

    If you want to be my friend,
     You must first forget that I'm gay.
      Then you must never forget that I'm gay.



>I do not like the community service idea, as it
>requires someone to do something that they may not feel comfortable in
>doing (for example, if I went to school in a town where the only kind of
>groups that existed were Queer Nation/Act Up style, I would have to give
>up my scholarship, as I am fundamentally opposed to those
>groups...doesnt mean that I'm not doing my damndest for gay rights
>however, as there are many ways to skin a cat).

You seem to acknowledge with the "skin a cat" phrase that groups such as QN
and ACT-UP *do* work towards the betterment of all LGBT people in their own
way.  And no one can fault you for the work you do, in your own way.  But
as someone pointed out, the assertion that a QN or ACT-UP would be the only
group in town is very hypothetical.  And even if it is, "community service"
does not at all mean join a group -- your personal flavor of community
service may be AIDS education in the schools, speaking as an openly gay man
to civic groups, lobbying for a municipal non-discrimination or hate crimes
law.  These things can all be one-person community service.

>SInce I do not
>participate in the conception of Gay as an ethnic identity,

You've never gone to gay bars?  Aren't they part of our identity, our
culture, unappealing as that is to some?  You've never camped, even just a
little?  Isn't that part of who we are?

>To expect someone to have
>to both settle on a political ideology and sexual ideology at the same
>time is ludicrous.

I think you're reading *way* too much into the idea of a community service
requirement.

Peace,
Mike!

***--------+----------------------------------------------------------***
*  ______  |  Mike! <=> Mike W. Miller           office:  219 239-8024  *
|  \    /  |  e-mail:  Mike.W.Miller@nd.edu    home/fax:  219 237-0788  |
|   \  /   +------------------------------------------------------------+
|    \/    |  Silence=Death                                Action=Life  |
*          |  Office of University Computing, University of Notre Dame  *
***--------+----------------------------------------------------------***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 07:55:39 CST
From: M-HAMM@vm1.spcs.umn.edu
Subject: Stone Phillips and Bush

Subject: Stone Phillips and Bush
*** Forwarding note from M-HAMM  --UMINN1   08/12/92 07:51 ***
To: SMTP    --UMINN1

Subject: Stone Phillips and Bush
.ddn athena.mit.edu@(gaynet)

Did anyone get as mad as I did last night watching Stone Phillips
interview Bush in the Oval Office? Jerko! Stone, for whom my
estimation dropped five hundred points in ten minutes, asked
Bush how he would respond to one of his grandchildren coming out.
ONLY, Mr. Perfect Media Dude blew the whole thing by throwing it
out at Bush like it was a poisonous snake: "If one of your grandchildren
came to you and said that they were going to live a gay lifestyle, what
would you do?"

Bush, who had just trounced a question about having an affair by
telling Phillips he ought to be ashamed of asking such a thing
in the Oval Office (I kid you not), proceeded to smear ignorance
and loathing all over the opportunity provided by the interviewer.
"I would tell them I wouldn't approve of their CHOICE..." etc.,
and that it goes against nature, and all the rest.  Puke.  Vomit.

After seeing gay couples with their arms around each other on
the SAME channel at the Democratic National Convention, you'd
think that NBC would be bright enough to have a standard policy
about asking gay questions.  One simple little phrase, "sexual
orientation" instead of "CHOOSING to be gay," shouldn't be TOO
hard to remember.

Fortunately, Bush is going to lose the election, and Clinton actually
included US in his acceptance speech.  Sure, small thing.  But twenty
years ago (yes, I was there), NOTHING AT ALL of the sort would have
happened.  Despite everything, some changes for the better have
occurred.

Mark

------------------------------

Date:         Wed, 12 Aug 92 09:46:51 EDT
From: "Gary Klein (bear at heart)" <FAC2813%UOFT01.BITNET@mitvma.mit.edu>
Subject:      RE: Queer Scholarships

On Wed 12 Aug 1992, Ron Buckmire referred to Louie Crew and said:
          "This isn't the first scholarship award in your name,
           now is it?  I remember a little bird telling me of
           others."

     It was in October 1991 that I posted the details of a gay students'
scholarship program here at the Univ of Toledo.  And I did not get even one
personal response to my posting!  UT's is based on a combination of
financial need, and the applicant's contribution to "the gay community".

     To go on the record, DIGNITY has had a national scholarship prior to
1987 for college students.  I don't recall if financial need has a bearing
on the award, but applicants have to discuss their involvement with the
LGB community.

"Librarian, leather bound"
      * * * *          Gary Klein,   Business Librarian,  Univ of Toledo
       *   *                     P.O.Box 12650 / Toledo OH 43606
        * *            WORK: 419-537-2629             HOME: 419-243-2740
         *             BITNET:   fac2813@uoft01        FAX: 419-537-2726
  B4 t+ w- g s+ k             INTERNET: fac2813@uoft01.utoledo.edu

------------------------------

Date:         Wed, 12 Aug 92 09:54:00 EDT
From: "Cindy L. Meneghin" <MENEGHIN%PUCC.BITNET@mitvma.mit.edu>
Subject:      GLB seminars/lectures/conferences...need contacts

Hi,

I am a member of an Episcopal group called The Oasis, in New Jersey.
As our mission statement goes, we are:  a mission and ministry of
the Episcopal Diocese of Newark with gay and lesbian people and their
families and friends. The ministry promotes reconciliation between
the lesbian and gay community and the Church through evangelical
outreach, pastoral care, education and advocacy.

If you've heard of Bishop Spong, you know the high level of support
our group has from the hierarchy of the diocese.

Anyway, we are looking to participate in seminars/lectures/conferences
conducted around the tri-state area or even the U.S. as speakers,
"booth" participants and maybe even sponsors, but need to know what
happens and get involved while the events are being organized so if we
can we could participate.  If you organize any such events, or know
someone who does, could you please contact me so we can start to plan
to participate where we can?  If you want any further information about
The Oasis, please feel free to contact me via e-mail or phone.  Here's the
info:

Cindy Meneghin
home:  (201) 492-0391
e-mail:  meneghin@pucc.princeton.edu

Hope to hear from lots of you all out there!!!!  Thanks!!!!!!!!!

------------------------------

From: 75furlong@cuavax.dnet.cua.edu
Subject: Questionnaire on Heterosexuality
Organization: The Catholic University of America
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 14:31:32 GMT

Just thought y'all would find this amusing. It's from a local youth theatre's
gossip rag, and they probably stole it from someone else. In any case, it's
reprinted here without permission and the typos are most likely mine.

(cut here)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
			A Questionnaire on Heterosexuality


1. What do you think caused your heterosexuality?

2. When and how did you decide you were heterosexual?

3. Isn't it possible that your heterosexuality is just a phase you may grow out
of [sic]?

4. Is it possible that your heterosexuality stems from a neurotic fear of
others of the same sex?

5. If you've never slept with another person of the same sex, isn't it possible
that you just need a good gay lover?

6. To whom have you disclosed your heterosexual tendencies? How did they react?

7. Why do you heterosexuals feel compelled to reduce others into your
lifestyle?

8. Why do you insist on flaunting your heterosexuality? Can't you just be who
you are and keep it quiet?

9. Would you want your child to be heterosexual, knowing the problems he/she
would have to face?

10. A disproportionate number of child molesters are heterosexual. Do you
consider it safe to expose your child to heterosexual teachers?

11. With all the societal support that marriage receives, the divorce rate is
still spiralling upward. why are there so few stable relationhips among
heterosexuals?

12. Why do heterosexuals place so much emphasis on sex?

13. Considering the menace of over-population, how could the human race survive
if everyone were heterosexual?

14. If you needed help, could you trust therapists who were heterosexual to be
objective? Don't you feel that they might be inclined to influence you in the
direction of their own leaning?

15. How can you become a whole person if you limit yourself to compulsive,
exclusive heterosexuality and fail to develop your natural, healthy, homosexual
potential?

16. There seem to be very few happy heterosexuals. Techniques have been
developed that might enable you to change if you want to [sic]. Have you
considered trying aversion therapy?

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
(cut here)

hmmmm.....funny - I've never heard the questions asked quit *that* way.
<grin>

-Alison

    ***********************************************************************
    * Alison Furlong                  ---- * "I have been deceived"       *
    * 75furlong@cuavax.dnet.cua.edu   \bi/ * "No - you have been refused" *
    *                                  \/  *           - G. Stein         *
    ***********************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 12 Aug 92 07:47 PDT
From: Ron Biduk                            <ECZ5RAB@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU>
Subject: Band on Track

According to an article that appeared in the August 10th issue of the Los
Angeles Times, the TV dramatization of Randy Shilts' bestseller on the
beginning of the AIDS crisis, "And the Band Played On," has a new director
and will start filming in October for HBO.

Director Roger Spottiswoode (who directed "Stop or My Mom Will Shoot!" and
"Shoot to Kill") will replace Joel Schumacher, who withdrew from the film
last September, shortly before production was to begin.  Schumacher complained
of problems with the script and HBO said at the time that it would be
undergoing "fine-tuning" while a new director was sought.

The two-hour film will probably air in late summer or early fall of next year.
Shooting will take place in Atlanta and San Francisco, with casting scheduled
to begin shortly.

The TV screenplay, written by Arnold Schulman, is told from the point of view
of two characters-scientist Don Francis and AIDS activist Bill Kraus.  Randy
Shilts, who was hired as a consultant, "loves the script that we have now".
Aaron Spelling and E. Duke Vincent are executive producers.

Ron Biduk
UCLA Biomedical Library

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 07:46:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: Loren Meissner <lmeissne@u.washington.edu>
Subject: IN THE LIFE
Mime-Version: 1.0

Thanks, Ron for the info on IN THE LIFE. I wrote and called them today (I
left message on phone machine and havn't received a reply. Do you know if
they (producers of IN THE LIFE) have a FAX number, since mail from the
West Coast to New York can take a week or longer sometimes?

------------------------------

Date:     Wed, 12 Aug 92 10:01 CDT
From: <LT08856%SWTEXAS.BITNET@mitvma.mit.edu>
Subject:  REPUBLICAN CONVENTION - HOUSTON

Hi everyone,

Does anyone know of any organized protests/demonstrations that are going on
this weekend at republican convention in Houston.

Thanks
Lori (Butch/Lipstick Lesbian)
President, Student Congress
Coalition of Lesbian/Gay Student Groups

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 11:54:32 -0400
From: 78witherspoo@cuavax.dnet.cua.edu (Ring! Ring! Clue phone! Woops! Nobody's
 home...)
Subject: Atlatna-- here I come!

Hi y'all,

	Just getting my southern warmed up!  Tomorrow I will embark upon my
much-deserved vacation to Atlanta, where I will stay with my best friend and
his partner.  They have promised to take me to a drag ball, and I am looking
forward to that immensely!

	I'll give y'all a report on the scene down there when I return!

	Take care,

	Tom Witherspoon

_____________________________________________________________________________
   Comments, Criticisms, Flames, Offers, Contracts, Poems, Death-Threats,
		Blessings, and other forms of Correspondance
			  Cheerfully Accepted at:

			78witherspoo@cuavax.dnet.cua.edu

   "I don't question our existence, I just question our modern needs..."
_____________________________________________________________________________

------------------------------

Date:         Wed, 12 Aug 92 12:31:28 EDT
From: Michael Montgomery <MICHAEL%PUCC.BITNET@mitvma.mit.edu>
Subject:      Re: Re: 1993 National LGBT Studies Conference

Yesterday "e" <ucielc%fpsp.hepnet@LBL.GOV> wrote:  "Do any of the contacts
for the LGBT Studies Conference have e-mail addresses?  When is it?"

Good questions to which I too wish I had answers!  I merely reproduced the
_LGSN_ article verbatim as a public service gesture; I'm not personally
involved.  This conference's predecessors at Yale, Harvard, and Rutgers/
Princeton--I attended only the last two--were rather more academic in tone
and emphasis than this one seems to be conceived; but I suppose we'll all
just have to contact (I repeat) Karen Gallaghar, 194 Douglass St., San
Francisco, CA 94114, to find out.
                                  Mike

------------------------------

From: COULPETG.JABBA@law.mail.cornell.edu (COULPETG)
Subject: lies by ommission?
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 12:57
X-Force-Noop: COULPETG.JABBA@law.mail.cornell.edu

In response to my original posting about the use of the phrase
"living a lie" and how it applies to closetted folks, I've
appreciated the thoughtful comments people have made which have
helped me to clarify my thinking (and change it somewhat too!).

But I have to disagree with Randall C Gellens
<0005000102@mcimail.com> who writes:

"But since we live in a society which assumes heterosexuality,
and which considers gays and lesbians less than equal, to live in
the closet *is* living a lie to the extent that one (a) lies by
omission, in letting others think one is heterosexual; and (b)
does nothing to contradict the prevailing images of gays and
lesbians or to change the status quo."

Randy


I don't think it is possible to "lie by ommission" in any
ordinary sense of the words.  The assumptions which others make
about my sexual orientation must be distinguished from the things
I reveal about myself knowingly attempting to give a certain
impression.  If others assume that I am straight simply because
they assume everyone is, then the only choice I have to not live
this lie by ommission is to continuously wear a placard reading
"I am gay" and shouting those words out as I walk down the
street.  Most others will always assume I'm a straight white male
until I make it clear to them that I'm not (at least on the first
count).  But it's ridiculous to think that I should make it clear
to the grocery store clerk that I'm gay or else be told I'm not
living my life "openly" or "honestly."  Part of what troubled me
about Thorne's original use of the phrase was that it seemed to
disregard the many places where it is unimportant whether we are
"out" or not -- as many people so aptly said, there are many
degrees of being "out."

I agree with you Randy that we should ALL work to change the
status quo, I really don't see how it is incumbant on me to
change "the prevailing images" of gays, lesbians and bisexuals
other than confronting blatantly erroneous stereotypes when I see
them expressed.  But I won't replace one stereotype (e.g. of a
typical "out" gay) with another.  To those who ask, I will admit
to being gay -- that is what it means for me to be out.  But I
don't see it as my personal duty to make sure that everyone I
come into close contact with knows my sexual orientation.  That's
where I kept my personality "reserved."

-  Peter Coulombe

------------------------------

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