HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: apearlma@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Andrew Pearlman)
Subject: Re: Psionics
Keywords: kneejerk psi
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 18:17:41 GMT

In article <0156@calsci.UUCP> al%calsci@gvgpsa.gvg.tek.com (Al Petterson) writes:
>In article <13785@mindlink.bc.ca> Nick_Janow@mindlink.bc.ca writes:
>I'll point out that both Brin and Niven power their FTL drives with psi.
>And for good reason.  Keep reading.
>
>>> Can you name a story in which FTL appears and where if you removed FTL
>>> *only* the story wouldn't be SF?

>Wrong.  The analogy to FTL is there for a specific and valid reason: psi and
>FTL-plus-causality fall into the same category of implausibility.

>(2) To put more directly what I've been dancing around regarding FTL and
>time travel: if the goal is to extrapolate from current scientific theory,
>FTL and causality are mutually exclusive.  Further, at least in terms of
>what theoretically could be built, causality is currently losing this
>struggle.
>
>Yet the existence of FTL and the nonexistence of time travel is a staple of
>hard SF.  Similarly the existence of psi is a staple of hard SF despite
>strong current evidence from current scientific understanding that it
>doesn't exist.

Don't forget the other weird aspect of FTL if it were to exist.  It would
appear that the speed of light is a barrier on both sides.  i.e. if one is
going FTL, one would have to spend energy to *slow down*.

Virtually every SF game I've seen makes it more difficult to obtain high
speeds, when in actuality, c + a little is the difficult range.

Andy Pearlman

Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: bdianton@cs.ulowell.edu (Brian Diantonio)
Subject: NEWGROUP II
Originator: bdianton@cs.ulowell.edu
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Lowell Computer Science
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 15:20:56 GMT


NO THE NEW NEWSGROUP ISN'T GOING TO BE LIKE THAT FIRST OF ALL I 
WILL LIST THE DIFFERENCES.
[a] it will not be a place to list petty differences of the
Stone skin spell.  I will appreciate your DM's right
to modify whatever rules he sees fit.
[b] the Beasitary, Magic spells, and etc. will be in a read able
form so anyone that wants to can contribute his own piece
via E-Mail to that item's caretake (me for now) or posting
APPEND: 's.
[c] I haven't seen any ads for DM'S or players of certains area's
in any of the rec.games.frp.(whatever)'s.  Have you?

I think my newgroup idea would accompany those other groups
very nicely.
Anyone else agree with me on that?
-Mark DiAntonio
bdianton@cs.ulowell.edu

Keywords:
From: klaus@diku.dk (Klaus Ole Kristiansen)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: Fantasy Game Worlds
Date: 31 Jul 92 08:33:39 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, U of Copenhagen

acd@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (andrew.c.durston) writes:

>In article <3130@bcstec.ca.boeing.com>, hall@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Robert J. Hall) writes:
>>Regardless of game system, what do you think is the best pre-industrial Fantasy
>> world currently supported by a gaming company?
Harnworld, no doubt about it.

>> In particular, how would you 
>> grade the following aspects of the various game worlds?
>	I think Columbia Games' Harnworld is the current best in the business.
>	It has been around for a while and is slowly being expanded and
>	defined. Rating everything on a 1-10 scale --
>> 
>>  - Colorful and detailed monsters
>	Harn has some unusual creatures, particularly the Ivashu, and
>	some variant orcs ( insect-like Gargun ). Pretty good, 6

And then there are the Ilme.

[Lots of stuff I agree with deleted]
>>  - Quality of the scenarios
>	A mixed bag IMHO, some good and some bad, check them out, 7,
>	my favorite is Kiraz and Staff of Fanon.

Staff of Fanon is the only Harn product that has ever disappointed me.
100 Bushels of Rye is a great scenario module. Even if you don't
intend to run it, buy it to get the detailed describtion of a
feudal manorial village.

Klaus O K
Xref: sparky rec.games.frp.advocacy:1367 rec.games.frp.dnd:2239
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy,rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: 10% XP bonus
From: a_copeab@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Date: 31 Jul 92 12:14:01 CST
Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University

In article <4202@astroatc.UUCP>, weeks@astroatc.UUCP (Pat Weeks) writes:
> 
> 	Hello All!  I was thinking again(I know it's dangerous...), but anyway.
> 
> 	Characters with 16+ or better in their prime requisite get a 10% XP
> bonus right??  WHY!!  I would think that a fighter with a 14 STR would gain
> more experience from a battle than a 18/95 fighter.  I mean it LASTS MUCH
> longer.  Thieves have better skills.  This makes it easier to succeed and they
> get XP for it??  Priests I might be able to see because they have an opportunity
> to cast more spells(active experience), but then again it's EASIER for them.  I
> would think the more challenging it is the more XP you should get...  I propose
> that one might get XP for lesser stats.  It would also make those persons with
> less than wonderful stats get some kind of benefit.

	I'm strongly considering giving a 10% XP bonus if NONE of their prime
stats are above 15. The effects of high stats are their own reward; also, why
should a character benifit so much from pure luck (sorry, but in 6-7 rolls,
probability doesn't mean much -- you need at least 30 samples for the effects
of a normal curve to show up)? This helps equalize starting characters.

Brandon Cope
From: Nick_Janow@mindlink.bc.ca (Nick Janow)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: Psionics
Date: 25 Jul 92 07:21:00 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu (Sea Wasp) writes:

> If it'll sell more units of the game that way, yes. That's why people bother
> to write and publish games, you know.

Not all game designers; the designer of legacy was simply tired of the lack of
a good SF rpg.  He's publishing it because after all that work, why not?  He's
not after profit though.

> But to answer your question on a higher level, again, yes. Because what YOU
> see as "garbage" and a waste of time is something that others will see as
> very important and useful.

I didn't refer to psionics as ""garbage" and a waste of time" (even though
that's close to my opinion), but poorly written psionics rules tacked on to a
game "for the sake of completeness" is unlikely to make any gamers happy.  Did
many people consider AD&D's original psionics system to be "important and
useful"?

> Of course you can invent your own rules, but most people would rather have as
> many of the things they want to use covered by the game that they buy.

Certainly!  If you want a psionics game, buy a game with complete psionics
rules that you like.  If you want a SF campaign with psionics, find a game that
supports it.  If you want a SF campaign that isn't tainted by psionics, buy
that.  I don't think that games that do everything (poorly) is better at
handling a particular flavour of gaming (such as SF without psionics) than a
system specifically designed for it.

> If you use psionics... OR magic... OR high tech... OR detailed combat
> systems... to EXCESS, or without attention to their ramifications within your
> game world, they'll spoil the game. ANYTHING will. Psionics is no more or
> less "bad" in this respect than magic, warp drive, or point-based systems.

I agree.  However, psionics in not an integral part of SF; it's something
different that is often combined with and confused with SF.  If you want a
"realistic" SF campaign, you don't need to have FTL drive or magic in it--or
psionics.  If you want to have characters able to visit other star systems and
return in reasonable time frames, you need FTL.  If you want to play in the
"magic returns to near-future Earth" genre, you need to add magic.  If you want
a "Star Wars" campaign, you need to add psionics.

Psionics, magic and FTL are inherent parts of particular types of stories, not
of the SF genre.

--

Nick_Janow@mindlink.bc.ca
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: jogle@zia.aoc.nrao.edu (Jim Ogle (Ks. Jim))
Subject: Re: Reviews: Dangerous Journeys, Dreampark
Organization: National Radio Astronomy Observatory, Socorro NM
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 05:42:35 GMT

In article <mumble> PCHEM14@Zeus.unomaha.edu (FALL88) writes:

>cbp@reef.cis.ufl.edu writes:
>
>> DREAM PARK
>> 
>> Wow.  This is COOL.  Simple, fast-paced, cinematic gaming action!  Appealing
>> graphics!  Terrific character options!  Neat, playable adventures!
>> 
>> Now, I don't know if I'd ever run a game of DREAM PARK using the actual
>> Dream Park concept
>
>The idea of roleplaying a person who's roleplaying idea kinda got to me too.
>But I'd still like to try it.

It was done before a couple of years ago in a game called Morpheus,
which was put out by, um, some really small company whose name I don't
quite remember (Stellar Games?  Rapport Games?).  

The basic concept was pretty much exactly the same thing Dream Park
has, though the mechanics were nowhere as good or as well defined (ie,
they seemed rather unplayable to me, but I could never find people
willing to try it so that's just my opinion).

-- 
Kansas Jim (Jim Ogle, TORG guru)
jogle@aoc.nrao.edu (NRAO-VLBA, Socorro New Mexico)
"I'd be apathetic if I cared."

Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: jhk6@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (John H Kim)
Subject: Re: HERO vs. GURPS
Reply-To: jhk6@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (John H Kim)
Organization: Columbia University
Distribution: rec
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 20:37:38 GMT

In article <4817@armltd.uucp> dseal@armltd.co.uk (David Seal) writes:
>Hero *has* to be modified. For instance, GURPS provides you
>with lists of spells, etc.; Hero tells you how to design a spell. The latter
>is better if you *want* to design your own spells - it's just a waste of
>time if you don't want to put in that much effort.
...
>If you really just want to get a campaign going without much
>system design work (as opposed to world design work), GURPS is almost
>certainly the better system. Enough of the details have been worked out in
>the published rules that you can simply say something like "we're using
>GURPS Basic, the GURPS Magic spell system and the GURPS Martial Arts
>non-cinematic rules", design characters and a world and start playing.

	Your information is a little faulty. There is a spell list in 
Fantasy Hero, and fairly complete martial arts rules (including how to 
build specific martial arts 'powers') in Ninja Hero. So you can simply 
say "we're using Hero standard using all Heroic-level optional rules, and 
the base spell system from Fantasy Hero, and Heroic Level martial arts 
from Ninja Hero."
	True, GURPS has *alot* more support material than Hero. Luckily 
(for the Hero player, that is) most of that material is not game mechanics, 
but general information. If he wants, the Hero player can use GURPS 
worldbooks for his game. Conversion of most characters is not that tough - 
there are some guidelines in Fantasy Hero. 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Kim                    | "All the world will be your enemy, Prince with 
jhk6@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu | a Thousand Enemies. And when they catch you, 
Columbia University         | they will kill you."         - John Kim
From: v131p9t3@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Ninstar Cybermage - Back Again from the Mists!)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: 10% XP bonus
Date: 31 Jul 92 17:43:00 GMT
Followup-To: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <64772@hydra.gatech.EDU>, ccoprdj@prism.gatech.EDU (Jorge Diaz) writes...
>In article <marrou.712587959@eola.cs.ucf.edu> marrou@cs.ucf.edu (Lance R. Marrou) writes:
>Nice, but your analogy only works for mages and clerics.  Why would a
>fighter with a strength 18/88 "learn" more than one with a strength
>13?
> 
>Or should XP bonuses be based on intelligence/wisdom for *all* character
>classes?

A fighter doesn't learn any faster mentally.  However if you are stronger, it
is far easier to master the arts of fighting(weapons are much lighter to you
and easier to manipulate.  You don't shake as much when you're holding back
the string of the bow, etc.)

As a student of martial arts AND archery, I have a good understanding of it.
As much as they like to say that size doesn't matter, it's always the big guys
getting complemented on their effectiveness.  (of course I compensated by
concentrating on Jointlocks instead of breaking ribs.  Maybe I'm in the wrong
style 8-) .)   Face it.  If you could break a board with your bare hands before
training, then learning to do it "right" is gonna take half the time.

James Shank           	#		v131p9t3@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu
AKA: Ninstar Cybermage  #	or	shank@acsu.buffalo.edu
###############################################################################
"Ten thousand years old...He could be trouble." -Vampire Hunter D
"Every night I say a prayer, in the hope that there's a heaven..."-Styx
"How do you make ammends for a god's sins?"-Forgotten Realms
##############################################################################
Sneaky Types,Inc.:Clandestine operations for the common man.
	"Don't call us.  We'll just bill you when it's done."
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: acd@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (andrew.c.durston)
Subject: Re: Fantasy Game Worlds
Organization: AT&T
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 12:58:56 GMT
Summary: Harn, Columbia Games

In article <3130@bcstec.ca.boeing.com>, hall@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Robert J. Hall) writes:
>Regardless of game system, what do you think is the best pre-industrial Fantasy
> world currently supported by a gaming company? In particular, how would you 
> grade the following aspects of the various game worlds?
	I think Columbia Games' Harnworld is the current best in the business.
	It has been around for a while and is slowly being expanded and
	defined. Rating everything on a 1-10 scale --
> 
>  - Colorful and detailed monsters
	Harn has some unusual creatures, particularly the Ivashu, and
	some variant orcs ( insect-like Gargun ). Pretty good, 6
> 
>  - Well thought out personas
	The personalities who are mentioned, local rulers and individuals
	in scenarios are well done, 8.
> 
>  - Social interaction
	A well thought out low-magic version of medieval europe, 8.
> 
>  - Economic realism
	Very good and complete. Check out the budgets in SHorkyne for
	the gov't or the Real Estate article in Harnworld 10 ( their
	magazine ), 10.
> 
>  - Political realism
	See above, 9.
> 
>  - Geographic flavor
	Beautiful and realistic cartography abounds. Check out the large
	maps in the Harn or Ivinia modules or the small versions in the
	Pilot's Almanac, 10!
> 
>  - Enjoyable Atmosphere
	I like it, it is laid back and low magic. Definately different from
	say Dark Sun or Forgotten Realms, 9.
> 
>  - Depth and grandeur
	Very deep but not terribly grand, more real and dirty. The scope of
	the project of Harn is grand, the world isn't, 10.
> 
>  - Quality of the scenarios
	A mixed bag IMHO, some good and some bad, check them out, 7,
	my favorite is Kiraz and Staff of Fanon.
> 
>  - Overall rating
	Overall, 9+. Spend the $20 or so on Harnworld to at least see the
	maps and info. Great stuff...

	Rambles from,
	ACDurston, ..!att!hotld!acd
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: gil@smtc21.engr.scarolina.edu (Gil Young)
Subject: CHAMPS: Marksman....
Summary: Question about Champions universe
Keywords: Champions, Marksman, HERO System, Mechanon
Organization: USC  Department of Computer Science
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 92 21:33:19 GMT

I've heard about this Markaman fellow a couple of times from you
all, and I remember seeing him in those goofy comic strips in the
old Champions I, II, and III.  Just who the hell is he?

As a side note, we had four characters beat Mechanon and 5 Type
II 'bots from Stronghold (Classic Champions) yesterday, and now
they're being given their initiation into the I've Beaten Mechanon
Club at Sanctuary. (heh).  We had two high-power egoists, a 30 STR
brick with damage reduction and a club (can you say "push," boys
and girls?) and me, a martial artist with a 1d6 autofire penetrating
x3 0 END knife (among other things) named Ginsu.  (of course).
My question is this:  What are your experiences with Mechanon?  
Admittedly, our GM was a little easy on us because he hadn't planned
on us getting to Mechanon's HQ, and I am NOT bragging (I got KO'ed
twice and was seriously wobbling), but I am curious, as the ol'
Mech-meister seems to be a staple of Champions campaigns.

Thanks,
     Gil Young
Xref: sparky rec.games.frp.advocacy:1287 rec.games.frp.misc:2984
From: ratinox@splinter.coe.northeastern.edu (Richard Pieri/Stainless Steel Rat)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: Cyber HERO
Date: 24 Jul 92 01:14:29 GMT
Organization: 3WA, Boston Office. Or Nu Meta Chi. Take your pick.
In-reply-to: mb8p+@andrew.cmu.edu's message of 23 Jul 92 20:53:30 GMT
X-Get-A-Clue: Have two, they're small.
X-Signature-Virus-Protection: Version 1.51
X-Posting-Software: GNUS 3.14.1 [ NNTP-based News Reader for GNU Emacs ]

>>>>> On 23 Jul 92 20:53:30 GMT, mb8p+@andrew.cmu.edu (Mark A. Baxter)
>>>>> said:

MAB>    Does anyone out there in netland know if the Hero system has made an
MAB> entry into the Cyberpunk genre?

As I just a few moments ago learned, CyberHERO should be out in time for,
or at GenCon.

--Rat

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Organization: Junior, Philosophy, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 20:11:51 -0400 
From: Andrew David Weiland <aw1s+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: SF or FF (Future Fantasy)?

Nick Janow writes,
>"Hard SF" and "soft SF" are too vague to be really useful.  Does anyone
>know of any better terms, or have some terms to propose?  Should Star
>Wars be listed as "Future Fantasy"?

I've always classed most stories about psionics as Science Fantasy. 
Future Fantasy is perhaps a better name, since not all of these stories
have any scientific basis.  The distinguishing figure is not how well
psionics (or FTL, or Teleportation) is explained; it's a matter of how
closely psionics resembles magic.

Most stories about psionics I have read are attempts to transplant a
fantasy story into a futuristic setting.  They want to tell stories
about what could happen if one person had the power to shake the world. 
 And because semi-historical fantasy is not a well-respected genre, they
switch to the near future and the domain of science.  This isn't
necessarily bad, and some of my favorite stories are Science Fantasy;
but it's a different creature.

One sure way to tell if a story is science fantasy is to see if it bears
some of the elements of literary fantasy, translated into an
interplanetary setting. 
Some examples
--A race of beings older than mankind but less vital, which taught men
many things about magic in the distant past.
--A society of wise men who know powerful magical secrets, but keep
their abilities hidden to prevent magical knowledge from becoming too
common, and available to evil people.
--A young hero who is bold but unwise, who possesses great magical
powers but does not yet know how to use them.
 In many cases it's easier to rationalize these elements in such a
setting, where alien worlds and backwater planets are supposed to exist.

Not all treatments of psionics are science fantasy; some book treat it
as a new science, without any mystical airs.  I consider this a
pointless exercise; there is enough new possibilities in science out
there that you don't need to handwave in psychic powers.
From: Nick_Janow@mindlink.bc.ca (Nick Janow)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: Psionics
Date: 30 Jul 92 05:59:50 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

apearlma@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Andrew Pearlman) writes:

> Don't forget the other weird aspect of FTL if it were to exist.  It would
> appear that the speed of light is a barrier on both sides.  i.e. if one is
> going FTL, one would have to spend energy to *slow down*.
> 
> Virtually every SF game I've seen makes it more difficult to obtain high
> speeds, when in actuality, c + a little is the difficult range.

Of course, some SF universes postulate instantaneous jumps, without passing
through the intervening space.  This has, I'm sure, it's own problems with
known theories.  :)

--

Nick_Janow@mindlink.bc.ca
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: jogle@zia.aoc.nrao.edu (Jim Ogle (Ks. Jim))
Subject: Re: The BEST Superhero game
Organization: National Radio Astronomy Observatory, Socorro NM
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 05:41:30 GMT

In article <mumble> buzzsaw@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Michael Elias Campbell) writes:

[about DC Heroes RPG]

> I'm sorry, but I refuse to play a game that cannot support a character
> walking across a room.

What are you talking about?  8-)

> "What are you talking about?" You ask?? Well take a look at this:
>
> There are two characters in a room  10 AP across. One can move at 2 AP
> a turn, the other can move at 3 AP. How many ap of time does it take for
> them to meet??

[Point one: 10 APs is one mile; maybe you should use a road instead of
a room. 8-)]

[Point two: you are talking about two characters, not one like you
said you would.]

> If you can explain this to me without going into higher mathematics, I'll
> buy the system.

No need for higher mathematics, just simple addition and subtraction.

Person B is faster so he will reach the halfway point before Person A
does; obviously they will meet sometime after this point, which occurs
at 6 APs of time (halfway is 9 APs distance, Time = Distance - Speed).
We can see that person A would reach halfway at 7 APs so they must
meet after 6 to 7 APs of time (4-8 minutes).

But this probably isn't exact enough for you, so why not just do it in
real world terms and convert back?  A Speed of 2 APs is 10 feet/second
and a speed of 3 APs is 20 feet/second.  Figure it out from there and
then you'll have the exact time (probably around 4-8 minutes). Of
course, that will require using some algebra (is that considered
higher mathematics these days?  I hope not....)

So does your favorite superhero system give you the answer without
using higher mathematics?

-- 
Kansas Jim (Jim Ogle, TORG guru)
jogle@nrao.edu (NRAO-VLBA, Socorro New Mexico)
"I'd be apathetic if I cared."