HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jbarth@ep.ieee.org (Jeremy Barth)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
Subject: Re: Specil or equal rights?
Date: 7 Jan 93 13:35:16 GMT
Reply-To: jbarth@ep.ieee.org
Organization: IEEE, New York, NY

Edelmiro writes abouts gays and lesbians:

> gays and lesbians ... are overrepresented economically, 
> are very affulent, have much more  political clout ...

Virtually all serious researchers have long decried the lack
of good statistics regarding sexual behavior in the US
population.  The Kinsey Report is decades old, yet it is what
government AIDS projections are based upon.  Under the
Reagan and Bush administrations, it was next to impossible to get
grants to study sexual behavior.

If there's an absence of hard numbers regarding the actual percentage
of gays and lesbians in the population, there's even less information
about their social, ethnic, and economic class.  In the absence of 
hard statistical data, the only neutral hypothesis, as even a 
Statistics 101 student could tell you, is that gays and lesbians are 
drawn proportionately across all other factors, such as race and 
economic class.

So a statement such as the above, based upon no good statistical 
evidence, is either based on ignorance or outright prejudice.


Jeremy
From: julio@upenn5.hep.upenn.edu (Julio Gonzalez)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
Subject: Re: Human Rights in Cuba
Date: 5 Jan 93 22:58:45 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <daum.726112301@ee.ualberta.ca>, daum@ee.ualberta.ca (Tanya Louise Daum) writes:

> 
>      For any part of the American continents excluding the U.S.
> nationalism means the autonomity of a certain cultural group, which does not
> conflict with the idea of an international working class.

 	Bravo Tanya !  Well said. I also think in Latinoamerica nacionalism
	means Autonomy.

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Julio , U of Penn, Philadelphia 
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From: mib@mace.cc.purdue.edu (chandra)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
Subject: Re: Cuba/Drug Trade
Date: 7 Jan 93 21:41:18 GMT
Organization: Purdue University

In article <20777@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu>, ez000281@hamlet.ucdavis.edu writes:
> Chandra  writes:
> 
> >And therefore, do you think that the US marine will land in Cuba to get  Fidel 
> >and Raul Castro as they did to the ex-Panamenian president Gen. Manuel Norguega>?
> 
> You mean Noriega, the guy that soon to be in nearby Illinois?  Well if they
> get sufficient evidence on Raul, it would certainly be a nice idea that we
> should arrest this drug trafficker and give his a fair trial in the U.S., since
> given contemporary Cuban criminal procedures it is doubtful he'll get a fair
> trial in Havana.  Once they get the evidence I'm all in favor of sending out
> an All Points Bulletin to the Marines.
> 
> Edelmiro



Well, would you volunter to go and get them? Most people may not dare .
Do not forget what happened in Playa Giron!  That have thought a lot of people who the Cubans are   OK!
From: rravelo@asturias.acs.uci.edu (Ray Ravelo)
Subject: Re: Human Rights in Cuba
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 6 Jan 93 17:28:07 GMT
Distribution: usa

In article <103777@netnews.upenn.edu> julio@upenn5.hep.upenn.edu (Julio Gonzalez) writes:
>In article <1993Jan4.210755.15487@wam.umd.edu>, aap@wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo Pinkas) writes:
>
>>     Maybe the Cuban-Americans and their friends can also show that
>> the Jews were living in homes during WWII, or that they were taken tp
>> concentration camps because of Fidel Castro.
>> 
>
> 	Not only that, they can prove Castro read "Mine Kaft" rather
>	"Das Capital", comprende sen~or ? ( apologies for mispellings,
>	I lost my e-dictionary).

 He read both. In his writtings "La Historia me Absorvera'" he borrowed freely
 from Mi Causa. If you had not read it, do it as soon as possible.
--
Ray I. Ravelo                "We're your opposition, Mr. Castro, we 10 million
Office of Academic Computing. Cubans who look around us in terror"
UC, Irvine.                 from the open letter to Castro by M.E. Cruz-Varela
From: aldo@ips-server.Eng.Sun.COM (Aldo Castillo)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
Subject: Re: MIM's banished from ...
Date: 12 Jan 1993 18:34:42 GMT
Organization: is a useful concept
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: ips-server

>>Guillermo Oyarce (oyarce@slab.unt.edu) wrote:
>Mark Rosenfelder (markrose@spss.com) replied:

>>It is a sorry action taken by the mentioned individuals agains the MIM.
>>If democracy is to be defended, democracy must be maintained.
>>Silencing opposing voices is not democracy but something else.

>Yes, that "something else" in this case is called a "moderated newsgroup".
>"Moderation" means (to put it bluntly) censorship, with a view to reducing
>bandwidth, irrelevancy, offensiveness, or whatever.  I don't know why
>misc.activism.progressive is moderated, but if its readers are happy with
>it, its moderators can censor anyone they like.

>>But MIM must be allowed to continue to voice the opinion of its members.

>MIM can certainly continue its pro-terrorist postings in *unmoderated*
>newsgroups, such as this one.  I kind of hope they do; a good MIM-Edelmiro
>fight could be worth watching.

and I wonder:

Who is writing behing the MIM pen name?  It would be very interesting
to put some context into the writings.  A profile would do, you may
choose to remain anonymous, but also explain why do you think that
you have to hide.  Spooks?

Inquiring minds want to know...

Aldo Castillo
San Francisco Bay Area
From: rravelo@asturias.acs.uci.edu (Ray Ravelo)
Subject: Re: Homophobia: US vs. CUBA
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 11 Jan 93 20:54:13 GMT
Distribution: usa

In article <104088@netnews.upenn.edu> julio@upenn5.hep.upenn.edu (Julio Gonzalez) writes:
>In article <2B4C706C.23805@news.service.uci.edu>, rravelo@asturias.acs.uci.edu (Ray Ravelo) writes:
>
>>  Martina was one of the guess. One of the things she insisted on was on their
>>  "right" to adopt children. Now, I don't think it's in the best interest of
>>  a child to be raised by a homosexual couple ....
>>  

>
>	Could you be more explicit on this idea. I don't see any
>	problems of "principle" for a homosexual-couple to raise
>	a child. I do see practical problems due to bigoty in 
>	society, but society needs to accept all sorst of minorities.

 Well, unless you're thinking on isolating your kids from the other kids and
 putting bandages over their eyes so they won't see his/her two homo "parents"
 in bed and thinking God/nature made a mistake creating the two sexes instead
 of creating just one sex like his parents. What's next on your agenda,-
 to sanction pedophilia as something good/natural too?

 By the way "pedophilia" is not a disease that causes a lot of "pedos" which
 is a natural condition caused by eating lots of beans, cabbage, etc. ! :-)

 (no translation to our english/other speakers is available, sorry)


--
Ray I. Ravelo                "We're your opposition, Mr. Castro, we 10 million
Office of Academic Computing. Cubans who look around us in terror"
UC, Irvine.                 from the open letter to Castro by M.E. Cruz-Varela
From: julio@upenn5.hep.upenn.edu (Julio Gonzalez)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
Subject: Re: Human rights in the USA.
Keywords: USA
Date: 8 Jan 93 02:45:00 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

> 
> Yes, I wrote a letter to Mr. Bush opposing such unequal treatment of Hatians, 

	Well done !


>	Clinton did

	He is not in command yet. I hope he doesn't forget
	his promises.

> 2) Restore Hatian 
> democracy (a simple show of force will do) so that Hatians are not persecuted 
> in their own country and have to come here. 
> 
	You mean restore Aristide to power ? He was always friendly
	to the USA. 

> 
>         4) Why do Haitian risk their lives going to Miami instead of fleeing
>            to socialist Cuba?
> 
> Edelmiro

	A republican I know always asks me why don't they go to 
	Latinoamerica. I haven't read about Haitians going to 
	Mexico for instance neither to the Dominican Republic.
	I think theirs is the same reason of the majority of
	emigrants coming to the USA. The economy is much better
	here. I think this is the wealthiest country on Earth,
	am I wrong ?

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Julio , U of Penn, Philadelphia 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ez000281@hamlet.ucdavis.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
Subject: Re: Homophobia: US vs. CUBA
Date: 8 Jan 93 07:07:54 GMT
Organization: Computing Services, UC Davis

Ray Ravelo writes:

> In adoption procedings most government agencies and most black citizens even
> oppose adoption of black children by white couples, so adoption of children
> by gays seems to me would be more of a traumatic experience than being raised
> by couples of another race.....

Well what's curious is that lesbians can't reproduce yet they have maternal 
desires.  I heard about cases in which artificial insemination took care of 
buisiness.  However, your right in pointing out the double standard of having 
lesbians adopt, while some white foster parents have their black kid sent into 
some kid beaters home simply 'cause he's black and 'cause it's said that white 
folks can't teach black kids "what it is to be black".  Talk of reverse 
discrimination.  It seems lesbians have more political power than poor whites.

>Just my opinion, please tell Barbra Straisand (sp?) not to boycott UCI or
>Orange county!

Yeah, I guess I'll soon recieve a death threat.  Don't worry, I'm ready to use 
some of my added protections as a "minority" in order to fiend off any further 
attacks of political correctness.  I'll simply yell "I'm Puerto Rican, don't 
discriminate against me!!" and everyone will run amuck.


Edelmiro
From: pablito@girtab.usc.edu (Pablo Kleinman)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
Subject: Re: Human Rights in Cuba
Date: 11 Jan 1993 11:53:22 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: girtab.usc.edu

In article <20687@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> ez000281@hamlet.ucdavis.edu writes:
>Alberto Pinkas writes:
>
>>In article <20685@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> ez000281@hamlet.ucdavis.edu writes:
>
>>>A marxist does not believe in Judaism.
>
>>This is wrong.
>>Judaism is more than just a religion.
>
>Perhaps for you, but I don't believe there is such a thing as a Jewish race, 
>for there are Jews of all races (including the Africans who are not recognized 
>by Israel.)  Yo see Adolfo, I don't believe there is such a thing as "jewish 
>race" just as I don't believe there is an arian race.

Hola, Edelmiro.
Creo que confundes lo que Alberto esta tratando de transmitir, al decir tu
que no crees en la existencia de una "raza judia." No creo haber leido tal
referencia por parte de Alberto al momento, sino mas bien una simple
afirmacion de que el judaismo no se limita a poseer una religion en comun,
comentario con el cual estoy de acuerdo.

Si hay algo que ha permitido al pueblo judio sobrevivir y progresar durante
los siglos fue principalmente el mantenimiento de una "cultura" judia, y
no tanto el de la religion. No es casualidad que entre los judios las ideas
de izquierda hayan tenido tanta aceptacion: esto no se relaciona en absoluto
con la religion judia, sino mas bien con la cultura y ensenyanzas que se
transmiten de generacion en generacion.

Existe un lazo mas alla de la religion que une al pueblo judio, y esto es
lo que lo mantuvo unido durante siglos en que no podian practicar la religion
a no ser en privado y solos. La sinagoga es simplemente un lugar de "reunion"
e inclusive un lugar de "socializacion"; la religion si juega un papel 
relevante dentro de la cultura judia, pero no el rol primordial que le asignas.

Tal es el caso que en paises como Argentina, la vida social de la comunidad
judia no gira en absoluto en torno a la sinagoga o la religion, sino mas
bien a clubes sociales y deportivos.

Aprovecho este mensaje para recomendarte a ti y al resto la lectura de un
libro titulado _La_Gesta_del_Marrano_ de Marcos Aguinis (Editorial Planeta).
La narracion es en gran parte una descripcion de la vida en el Virreinato
del Peru alla por 1600, y tambien del numero de judios que habitaban las
colonias espanyolas en aquel entonces, desde medicos a obispos, incluso
autoridades gubernamentales. El libro es una historia veridica basada en
documentos historicos del Virreinato y de la Inquisicion, y te garantizo
que te sera no solo interesante, sino revelador. El autor del libro, Aguinis,
fue Secretario de Cultura de Argentina durante el gobierno de Raul Alfonsin.

Salu2,

          -Pablo

--
Pablo Kleinman
Hollywood, CA, USA
pablito@scf.usc.edu
FidoNet: 1:10/100
Fax/Data: +1-213-874-7276
--
From: rravelo@asturias.acs.uci.edu (Ray Ravelo)
Subject: Re: Human rights in the USA.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Keywords: USA
Date: 12 Jan 93 18:56:38 GMT
Distribution: usa

In article <1993Jan12.174512.28290@ennews.eas.asu.edu> cortes@enuxva.eas.asu.edu (Enrique Cortes-Rello) writes:
>In article <21211@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu>, ez000281@hamlet.ucdavis.edu writes:
>> Enrique Cortes-Rello writes:

>You said it : "more egalitarian". But, are you ready to claim that, in practice
>(and not in theory), PuertoRicans have an equal place in the U.S. society ?
>(just an example: the Banks discriminating against "hispanics"  - and yes, you
>are included- when aproving mortages)
> 

 Banks discriminating against hispanics? Where? I have purchased many
 properties and never had that problem. None of my "hispanic" friends
 ever said something like that either. Banks check your credit and income,
 if you have a good credit they'll give it to you, after all that's their
 business. Now, if you have a lousy credit or have a record of crossing the
 border to avoid responsibilities (like some cuates a know) then that's
 a different story.

--
Ray I. Ravelo                "We're your opposition, Mr. Castro, we 10 million
Office of Academic Computing. Cubans who look around us in terror"
UC, Irvine.                 from the open letter to Castro by M.E. Cruz-Varela

Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
From: rb9a@kelvin.seas.Virginia.EDU (Raul  Baragiola)
Subject: Equal protection under the law (was Homophobia: US vs. CUBA)
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 13:55:08 GMT

In article <21047@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> ez000281@hamlet.ucdavis.edu writes:
>
>Well Alberto, now that your asking for reinforcements, let me start setting up 
>my minefield.  First, if you are right, then there was no need fight against 
>the Colorado propostion, for in our county, unlike Argentina perhaps,we have a 
>amendment in our Bill or rights which GUARANTEES "equal protection under the 
>law", I believe its the 14th amendment.

That is a fantasy, nobody GUARANTEES that. At most, it is a statement of
goals. One can see daily that the protection under the law depends on
how much lawyer your money can buy (among other things).

Saludos,

Raul
From: julio@upenn5.hep.upenn.edu (Julio Gonzalez)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
Subject: Clinton to recognize Cuba's right to self-determination.
Date: 8 Jan 93 23:15:54 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Pennsylvania


	Could this be possible ?  I read that J F Kennedy sent
	an emissary to propose this to P. Castro. The condition was
	for Cuba not to be a Soviet puppet. Now that the "Cold War"
	is over, could P. Clinton restablish relations with Cuba ?
	  I think it would be convinient to the USA, otherwise
	that unexploited market will be lost to the japanese (once
	again ).


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Julio , U of Penn, Philadelphia 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: rravelo@asturias.acs.uci.edu (Ray Ravelo)
Subject: Re: Human Rights in Cuba
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 4 Jan 93 21:07:16 GMT
Distribution: usa

In article <daum.726112301@ee.ualberta.ca> daum@ee.ualberta.ca (Tanya Louise Daum) writes:
>ez000281@hamlet.ucdavis.edu writes:

>
>	But Castro is not a Stalinist -- I think in many ways his ideology
>cannot be compared to any of the European leaders.
>
>>>       Are you telling me that Cuba's constitution
>>>   institutes hatred against minorities ?  


 No? Castro is more Stalinist than Stalin!


>
>>No, but in practice there are no blacks at the highest echelons of power, and 
>>you only get token Uncle Toms (like that boxer whose name I forgot).  Perhaps 
>>we should ask some Marielito about how racism continues to be prevalent in Cuba.
>
>	I've heard the opposite, actually.  I don't think you could get away
>with outright racism in Cuba considering the division of the population into
>so many ethnic groups.


 No? In Cuba these days you can get away with anything provided you're a member
 of the ruling new class!

>>>  Does it discriminate against
>>>   homosexual individuals ?  
>
>>Again, in practice, homofobia is rad various 
>>books are available on the topic.  It is to no wonder that among "scum" who 
>>exited through Mariel, there were thousands of homosexuals.

 Well, I understand that gays here in the US have bars and other places where
 they get together. According to gay intelectuals (like R. Arenas) in Cuba
 such things as freedom of assembly could land you in jail!

>
>	You sound so definite about this!  How can you say that me claiming
>that I want American dominance of my country (Canada) and me being a
>socialist and believing that all workers must unite are incompatible. 
>Remember that the purpose of nationalism in Cuba was and is to keep the
>American power bloc from controlling it -- I don't think Castro would have
>anything against American workers coming and living in or sharing space with
>Cuban workers.

 No, as long as they don't form a union and fight for their rights like
 no forced labor, 40 h/p, etc. Things that the communist demanded when they
 were not in power.

 Nationalism in Cuba means Castro and the PCC own everything. (period)

>-- 
>"And men are men who till the land, and women are women who weave, fifty men
> own the lemon grove, and no man is a slave." -- Herbert Read

 Fifty men THINK they own the lemon grove, the STATE owns the lemon grove
 including the people who work in it like slaves!


--
Ray I. Ravelo                "We're your opposition, Mr. Castro, we 10 million
Office of Academic Computing. Cubans who look around us in terror"
UC, Irvine.                 from the open letter to Castro by M.E. Cruz-Varela

Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
From: rb9a@kelvin.seas.Virginia.EDU (Raul  Baragiola)
Subject: Re: Homophobia: US vs. CUBA
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 04:17:30 GMT

In article <1993Jan8.121004.24665@tdb.uu.se> Mats.Bredell@udac.uu.se writes:
>Ray Ravelo (rravelo@asturias.acs.uci.edu) wrote:
>: 
>:  Last night on "Nighline" they talked about the Colorado boycott, etc.
>:  Martina was one of the guess. One of the things she insisted on was on their
>:  "right" to adopt children. Now, I don't think it's in the best interest of
>:  a child to be raised by a homosexual couple ....
>
>Why not? Studies show that children being raised by homosexual parents don't
>suffer from anything that other children don't suffer from. And since most
>sociological studies show that homosexuals are better parents, perhaps it
>should be the other way around.
>
>/Mats
>-- 

Studies? Which? By whom? When? For how long? I am highly skeptic!
I would expect major problems when the child reached adolescence, not
only to the absence of the parent of one sex, but also due to the reaction
of other kids.  A third problem I suspect: isn't the lifetime of homosexual
relations very short -a few years? If so, what would be the effect on the
children?

Raul
From: julio@upenn5.hep.upenn.edu (Julio Gonzalez)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
Subject: Re: Human Rights in Cuba
Date: 8 Jan 93 21:27:44 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <2B4A2B04.11258@news.service.uci.edu>, rravelo@asturias.acs.uci.edu (Ray Ravelo) writes:

>        I don't think so since guys like you gravitate freely around here.

	Neither I am communist like your uncle neither I gravitate
	freely. I do work that "americans" are not willing to do and
	pay for everything. I don't get "welfare and free medical care".
> 
>    you don't believe there are thieves in your paradise, do you?
>> Ray I. Ravelo


	It's not my paradise, man. Remember I come from Chile and
	I am not allowed to visit the Island. I am just sick of all
	the hypocritical attacks on Cuba. They have problems and
	their model of sicialism may be failing but try to be fair
	to them. Hysteria won't get you far.


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Julio , U of Penn, Philadelphia 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
From: lazaro@garfield.cs.mun.ca (Lazaro Nunez)
Subject: Re: Human Rights in Cuba
Organization: CS Dept., Memorial University of Newfoundland
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 17:02:16 GMT

ez000281@hamlet.ucdavis.edu writes:

>Alberto Pinkas writes:

>>The Jewish people constitutes a nation with its own culture, tradition,
>>language, muesic, literature, etc. So, Judaism has nothing to do with
>>race but is not just a religion. 
>                 ^^^^
>So, it is is not JUST a religion, then it must be a religion PLUS something 
>else shich you call culture and tradition.  

Yo comprendo perfectamente a Alberto. Un judio se puede identificar como tal
porque practica la religion judia, pero tambien puede ser ateo e identificarse
como judio por su cultura. No veo ningun sentido en hacer toda una disertacion 
sin logica a partir de una palabra y con la ayuda de un diccionario para contra-
decir una explicacion tan sencilla de lo que significa ser judio como la que
dio Pinkas arriba.

Quisiera acordarme, pero no puedo, del titulo de un documental que vi ya 
hace tiempo en PBS sobre este tema. Recuerdo que pensaba un poco como tu, 
Edelmiro, y quede boquiabierto cuando presentaron a personas que se consideraban
tanto judias como cristianas. Al menos el hecho de que muchos se consideraban
judios y ateos lo sabia antes de ver el documental, pero ?judios y cristianos
a la vez? Creia que era la contradiccion mas grande que habia visto. Y termine
comprendiendo que seria una estupidez descalificarlos como judios al ver con 
que fervor hablaban de la cultura judia y como se identificaban con esta.

>Edelmiro

-- 
| Lazaro Nun~ez Figueiral         ||  !Lloran sobre el Mar de Cuba	     |
| Memorial University of Nfld.    ||  enormes flores bermejas;	             |
| St. John's, Terranova, Canada.  ||  sobre la isla perdida	   	     |
| lazaro@garfield.cs.mun.ca       ||  el aire amarillo tiembla! - F.G. Lorca |