HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: CRENSHAW@URVAX.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.liaison
Subject: Help Desk Tracking Software
Date: 6 Oct 92 14:07:00 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: liaison@uga.bitnet
X-VMS-To: IN%"liaison@uga.bitnet"
Comments: To: liaison@uga.bitnet

In response to Martha Parrot's inquiry, we use software called H.E.A.T.-
HelpDesk Exppert Automation Tool at the University of Richmond.  This
software tracks every call, duration, date, time, etc.  You also can
configure each call screen to suit your needs.  You can obtain more
information about this program by calling Bendata Management in Colorado
Springs, CO  at 719-531-5007.  If you need any further info you can
contact me at 804-289-8861.

Salonge Crenshaw
Academic Consultant
Help Desk
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Organization: University Computing and Networking Services
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.liaison
Date:         Fri, 2 Oct 1992 15:49:36 EDT
From:         Mel <MBRINKLE@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU>
Subject:      Re: help desk tracking
              2 Oct 1992 16:07:55 -0400 from
              <Martha_Parrott@POCZTA.UTCS.UTORONTO.CA>

You could quite easily write your own by developing an ISPF Dialog
Application.  Drive it with CLISTS or REXX execs.  No language
programming such as FORTRAN or COBOL should be required.  We have a
maintenance tracking system which works well.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.liaison
Date:         Thu, 1 Oct 1992 11:10:34 EST
From:         Jim Ennis <JIM@UCF1VM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Bitnet Maps

Princeton has the maps available in their listserv.  You can send this
command to LISTSERV@PUCC to get the info file:

GET BITMAPS README

The PS files are sent to you over Bitnet when you request them.

Jim Ennis
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.liaison
Date:         Mon, 28 Sep 1992 09:02:56 -0500
From:         sprafka@PLAINS.NODAK.EDU
Subject:      Staff Senates
Comments: To: liaison@bitnic.bitnet

We have had a Staff Senate on our campus for the past three years
and am wondering if this is common on other campuses.  We would
be interested in sharing information, and perhaps going to other
campuses.  It has been very beneficial for us as now staff has a
voice on campus.  We are serving on several campus committees,
have established scholarships for staff and their families, and
have sponsored workshops.  I will be glad to provide additional
information.
From: KATYA@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU (Katy McKinin)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.liaison
Subject: Re: help desk tracking
Date: 2 Oct 92 21:15:47 GMT
Organization: Office of Computing Info. Services, Rice University
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
              2 Oct 1992 16:07:55 -0400 from
              <Martha_Parrott@POCZTA.UTCS.UTORONTO.CA>

Our walk-in, phone-in Consulting Center uses the PROBLEM system from Cornell.
We have it mounted on our central IBM (VM/XA CMS) mainframe to which all
staff have access.  It's not perfect, but has several nice features.  Postings
to any problem in the database triggers the sending of mail to all "interested
parties" - including the logger, the reporter (user), and the assignee.
(So you don't have to have an account on that system to follow the progress.)
We have been using it for about 2 years now and have come to rely increasingly
on it - the total database is now about 10,000 problems in size. (Systematic
retiring of old problems is one of our unresolved issues!)
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.liaison
Date:         Thu, 1 Oct 1992 09:05:15 EDT
From:         Harold Pritchett <HAROLD@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Bitnet Maps
Comments: To: David Quarterman <DLQ@UGA.BITNET>,
              "DOV - DR. ART ST. GEORGE" <STGEORGE@UNMB.BITNET>,
              BITNIC LIAISON <LIAISON@UGA.BITNET>

On Thu, 01 Oct 92 08:51:53 EDT you said:
>Does anyone know where I can locate fairly current maps of Bitnet,
>for both North America and globally? Ideally, I;d like to find
>Postscript files I can FTP. Thanks.

The keeper of the BITNET maps used to be Butch Kemper (X040BK@TAMVM1).

This was actually a SAS program using SAS/Graph to draw the maps, and
a data file with the map information in it.  I don't know if he still
does this or not.  It has been years since I did a BITNET map.

Hope this helps

Harold
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Mailer: QuickMail/SMTP interface.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.liaison
Date:         Fri, 2 Oct 1992 16:07:55 -0400
From:         Martha Parrott <Martha_Parrott@POCZTA.UTCS.UTORONTO.CA>
Subject:      help desk tracking
Comments: To: liaison <liaison@uga.bitnet>

Is anyone running a phone-in Help Desk with the aid of some sort of
help-desk/problem-tracking software? Our Help Desk takes about 100 calls a
week; theoretically a call could come from any member of the University
community.  The two main functions we would like are a way to track progress on
solving a problem and a flexible database for storing and retrieving  solutions
to past problems.  So far, the products I have read about or evaluated are very
corporation oriented, though they could perhaps be adapted to our
less-regulated user base.

Thanks for your help on this (and thanks to those who answered my last query,
about universities with no user support--I'm happy to report there were hardly
any).

Martha Parrott
University of Toronto Computing Services
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Original_To:  JNET%"liaison@bitnic"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.liaison
Date:         Wed, 30 Sep 1992 21:54:00 MDT
From:         "DOV - DR. ART ST. GEORGE" <STGEORGE@UNMB.BITNET>
Subject:      Bitnet Maps

Does anyone know where I can locate fairly current maps of Bitnet,
for both North America and globally? Ideally, I;d like to find
Postscript files I can FTP. Thanks.

Artr
From: AMOREAU@VM1.SI.USHERB.CA
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.liaison
Subject: Re: Bitnet Maps
Date: 1 Oct 92 14:10:47 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Comments: To: BITNIC LIAISON <LIAISON%UGA.bitnet@VM1.MCGILL.CA>
              30 Sep 1992 21:54:00 MDT from <STGEORGE%UNMB.bitnet@VM1.MCGILL.CA>

On Wed, 30 Sep 1992 21:54:00 MDT DOV - DR. ART ST. GEORGE said:
>Does anyone know where I can locate fairly current maps of Bitnet,
>for both North America and globally? Ideally, I;d like to find
>Postscript files I can FTP. Thanks.
>
>Artr

You can anonymous ftp to princeton.edu in directory pub/bitnet/maps
but I don't remember how recent they are...

Anne Moreau
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Organization: Central Michigan University
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-hesc
Date:         Mon, 5 Oct 1992 08:30:43 EDT
From:         Mark Strandskov <34HLEFG@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
Subject:      Re: TCPIP V2 (NFS part).
              02 Oct 92 11:24:50 EDT from <CSVKRN@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>

On Fri, 02 Oct 92 11:24:50 EDT Keith Nelson said:
>Do you want to help me make a pitch for NFS on the 3090?  Why do we
>need it?  What would we do with it?

I don't believe we have anything which uses NFS.  NFS is usually found
in UNIX environments with some ports over to the PC environment (PC/NFS).
The NeXT could be configured to attach additional disk space from the
IBM but that is about all I can think of.  I don't think that makes
enough justification for getting it. :-)  So I guess in answer to your
questions, no, no and I just sort of answered that.  Maybe David has
some other ideas but I sure don't think we need it at this point in time.

Mark...
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-hesc
Date:         Fri, 2 Oct 1992 09:32:30 EDT
From:         Lawrence Gottesman <GOTTESMN@RPIECS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: TCPIP V2 (NFS part).

>Hi,
>    If I were to order TCPIP V2 for VM from HESC would the NFS part of it
>also be shipped, or is there an extra charge?  Also are the other software
>requirements ( C libraries, ..whatever) also available on HESC.  Thanks T.S.
>

Unless otherwise noted in the HESC Group List, any and all feature codes
of a product available under HESC are available at no additional charge.
Exceptions to this are footnoted and a table of additional expenses for the
affected feature codes are provided (the AES product under Group II-D is
just one example).  TCP/IP V2 for VM (5735-FAL) is not such a product,
making the NFS and the source code features "free", which is quite a deal!
By the way, there is no guarantee that they will ship automatically with
the rest of TCP/IP unless you explicitly specify them when you place
your order.  You might have a particularly watchful local branch office or
SE who will notice optional feature codes and order them for you without the
asking, but simply ordering all feature codes can create conflicts and can
actually cause the supression of certain materials.  When I place any order
for IBM software, be it HESC or otherwise, I take the trouble to specify the
feature codes and their descriptions so the local branch has some idea of what
I need.

Regarding optional prerequisites, both the C/370 Complier and Library V2
(5688-187 & -188) are available in Group I-A1.  I leave the others
(of which there are many) for you to research.  The product announcement
(291-701, 12/10/91) and the latest HESC Group List (available from this
list as a series of files) are all you need.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-hesc
From: stoodt@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Timothy Stoodt)
Subject: TCPIP V2 (NFS part).
Summary: none
Keywords: none
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois, USA
Distribution: bit.listserv.ibm-hesc
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 11:32:18 GMT

Hi,
    If I were to order TCPIP V2 for VM from HESC would the NFS part of it
also be shipped, or is there an extra charge?  Also are the other software
requirements ( C libraries, ..whatever) also available on HESC.  Thanks T.S.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-hesc
Date:         Fri, 2 Oct 1992 13:51:00 EDT
From:         "Michael A. Short" <$MAS@CLVM.CLARKSON.EDU>
Subject:      Re: TCPIP V2 (NFS part).

> Hi,
>     If I were to order TCPIP V2 for VM from HESC would the NFS part of it
> also be shipped, or is there an extra charge?  Also are the other software
> requirements ( C libraries, ..whatever) also available on HESC.  Thanks T.S.


TCPIP V2 for VM is in group 1-A4 and includes NFS (server), NCS, Kerberose,
and X and GDDMX (client) code.

The required C and Pascal are in group 1-A1.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: IBM-HESC@PSUORVM.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"IBM-HESC@PSUORVM"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-hesc
Date:         Mon, 28 Sep 1992 18:54:00 BSC
Reply-To:     gomide@BRFAPQ.BITNET
Comments:     @FAPQ.FAPESP.BR - @FAPQ%FPSP.HEPNET - @BRFAPQ.BITNET - .BR gateway
Comments:     Warning -- original Sender: tag was GOMIDE@BRFAPQ
From:         gomide@FPSP.FAPESP.BR
Subject:      Apologies re: InterMeta course

PLEASE DO NOT SEND MONEY !
It is with regret that I perform this task. Dr. Gelson V. Gomes. a
professor of the University of Parana, Brazil, has exceeded this
privileges and announced a eletronic course:

> ____________________________________________________________
>        Mastering INTERNET Tools, Seizing METANET Power -
>                      The InterMeta Course
> ____________________________________________________________

I must apologize for this flagrant breach of network etiquette. Please
be aware that Dr. Gelson had no right to do so, since this is against
the rules of our ANSP network, and also against the Bitnet rules.
PLEASE DO NOT SEND MONEY!
I will not discuss what his motivations were. But his account has been
revoked, and there will be no such course through my network.

Please write by normal mail, to:
-> Gelson V. Gomes
-> 358, R. Alvaro Andrade - ap.1201
-> Curitiba PR BRAZIL 80610-240
to get more information on his objectives. He may want to give the
course by normal mail.  :-)

With regards,
--
Alberto Courrege Gomide | Fundacao de Amparo `a Pesquisa - (11)831-3357
Software Supervisor     | Rua Pio XI, 1500 - CEP 05468-901 - Sao Paulo
<gomide@fapq.fapesp.br> | FAX (11)261-4167 Telex (11)82014 - Brazil
(ACG8) - .BR Domain Technical Contact. |
--
From: PHoward@HUSKY1.STMARYS.CA ((Philip M. Howard))
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.advise-l
Subject: RE: demande de documentation
Date: 6 Oct 92 13:13:00 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Delivery-Notice:  SMTP MAIL FROM does not correspond to sender.
X-Envelope-to: advise-l@ubvm.bitnet
Date-warning: Date header was inserted by HUSKY1.STMARYS.CA
Comments: To: advise-l@ubvm.bitnet

>Remarque : normalement cette liste est en anglais. Autrement 'a pose des
>probl,mes pour nos amis am)ricains. Voulez-vous reposez votre question
>en anglais s.v.p ??
>
>Merci,
>--- Johan

...Americans, Austrailians, New Zealanders, Canadian anglos (since "le
Que/bec forme au sein du Canada une socie/te/ distincte."), and those whose
SECOND language is English, Johan! =|-)

I don't feel we should attribute the common language of the Internet to any
one group. Historical precedence aside, there are good reasons to continue
to use English on the net. Note, however, that in my country there *are*
French language Usenet groups and I would assume other languages are
"spoken" on other special interest channels like ListServs.

Philip
ps:Political flames to /dev/null (aka my mailbox), please.

-------
Philip M. Howard         |Internet: PHoward@Husky1.StMarys.ca
Academic User Services   |   Voice: (902) 420-5481
Saint Mary's University  |     FAX: (902) 420-5115
Halifax, Nova Scotia     |"My Canada is based on a fair Parliament
C A N A D A    B3H  3C3  |  ...let Quebec go; vote NO on October 26."
From: JBERTELO@RKC.UFSIA.AC.BE (Johan Berteloot)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.advise-l
Subject: Re: Password security for Macs and PCs
Date: 6 Oct 92 00:47:45 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

On Mon, 5 Oct 92 15:11:30 CDT Dorette Dusterhoft said:
>A department on our campus is being annoyed by someone coming in to
>their offices and 'borrowing' the use of computers.  They are looking
>for freeware to 'discourage' this practice.  Any ideas?
>
>Thanks
>
>Dorette Dusterhoft                        dusterho@vm1.nodak.edu
>Computer Center
>University of North Dakota

Hi,

Lots of computer systems in the PC world have power-on password possibilities.
So if you can shutdown you computer, do so and use the power-on password.
(It's definitely available on IBM-PS2s and on clones with recent AMI-BIOS).
For the Macs I do not have any solutions.

Good luck anyway. Hope this helps,
--- Johan

==============================================================================
Johan BERTELOOT               |     E-mail : JBERTELO@RKC.UFSIA.AC.BE
User support service          |     BITNET : JBERTELO@BANUFS11.BITNET
Central Computing Services    |  +--------------------------------------------
UFSIA, University of Antwerp  |  |  Areas of interest : Programming (Pascal,
Belgium                       |  |     C, Assembler), AI, Expertsystems,
------------------------------+  |     Help Desk systems and user support,
Any solution to a problem is     |     Datacommunication and networking.
a new problem ---   Goethe.      +--------------------------------------------
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Vmsmail-To: SMTP%"advise-l@uga.uga.edu"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.advise-l
Date:         Tue, 6 Oct 1992 09:14:35 -0700
From:         JAMES@UCRAC1.UCR.EDU
Subject:      RE: Password security for Macs & PCs
Comments: To: advise-l@uga.cc.uga.edu

Dorrette asked for ideas as to how to prevent unauthorized access to
computing resources. I posed the same querry to the local gurus here and
the suggested FILEGUARD for macs and PROTEC for PCs. Of course, no solution
can be expected to be 100% effective...

James Ssemakula
U.C. Riverside
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: ADVISE-L@UGA.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"ADVISE-L@UGA"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.advise-l
Date:         Mon, 28 Sep 1992 16:22:00 BSC
Reply-To:     gomide@BRFAPQ.BITNET
Comments:     @FAPQ.FAPESP.BR - @FAPQ%FPSP.HEPNET - @BRFAPQ.BITNET - .BR gateway
Comments:     Warning -- original Sender: tag was GOMIDE@BRFAPQ
From:         gomide@FPSP.FAPESP.BR
Subject:      Apologies re: InterMeta course

PLEASE DO NOT SEND MONEY !
It is with regret that I perform this task. Dr. Gelson V. Gomes. a
professor of the University of Parana, Brazil, has exceeded this
privileges and announced a eletronic course:

> ____________________________________________________________
>        Mastering INTERNET Tools, Seizing METANET Power -
>                      The InterMeta Course
> ____________________________________________________________

I must apologize for this flagrant breach of network etiquette. Please
be aware that Dr. Gelson had no right to do so, since this is against
the rules of our ANSP network, and also against the Bitnet rules.
PLEASE DO NOT SEND MONEY!
I will not discuss what his motivations were. But his account has been
revoked, and there will be no such course through my network.

Please write by normal mail, to:
-> Gelson V. Gomes
-> 358, R. Alvaro Andrade - ap.1201
-> Curitiba PR BRAZIL 80610-240
to get more information on his objectives. He may want to give the
course by normal mail.  :-)

With regards,
--
Alberto Courrege Gomide | Fundacao de Amparo `a Pesquisa - (11)831-3357
Software Supervisor     | Rua Pio XI, 1500 - CEP 05468-901 - Sao Paulo
<gomide@fapq.fapesp.br> | FAX (11)261-4167 Telex (11)82014 - Brazil
(ACG8) - .BR Domain Technical Contact. |
--
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Subject: (no subject given)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.advise-l
Date:         Fri, 2 Oct 1992 15:40:41 -0800
From:         "(Lung-Haw Chen)" <m8042616@MIS.NSYSU.EDU.TW>

sighoff advise-l
From: JBERTELO@RKC.UFSIA.AC.BE (Johan Berteloot)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.advise-l
Subject: Re: demande de documentation
Date: 6 Oct 92 00:35:16 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

On Mon, 5 Oct 92 19:13:00 +0200 <ANSEL@FRESE51> said:
>je vous serais reconnaissant de bien vouloir me faire parvenir votre
>documentation
>
>merci.

Documentation sur quoi ?? Je vous connais de quelque part ?
Remarque : normalement cette liste est en anglais. Autrement +a pose des
probl[mes pour nos amis am)ricains. Voulez-vous reposez votre question
en anglais s.v.p ??

Merci,
--- Johan

==============================================================================
Johan BERTELOOT               |     E-mail : JBERTELO@RKC.UFSIA.AC.BE
User support service          |     BITNET : JBERTELO@BANUFS11.BITNET
Central Computing Services    |  +--------------------------------------------
UFSIA, University of Antwerp  |  |  Areas of interest : Programming (Pascal,
Belgium                       |  |     C, Assembler), AI, Expertsystems,
------------------------------+  |     Help Desk systems and user support,
Any solution to a problem is     |     Datacommunication and networking.
a new problem ---   Goethe.      +--------------------------------------------
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.advise-l
Date:         Mon, 5 Oct 1992 19:13:00 +0200
From:         ANSEL@FRESE51.BITNET
Subject:      demande de documentation

je vous serais reconnaissant de bien vouloir me faire parvenir votre
documentation

merci.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computer Network
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.advise-l
Date:         Mon, 5 Oct 1992 15:11:30 CDT
From:         Dorette Dusterhoft <DUSTERHO@NDSUVM1.BITNET>
Subject:      Password security for Macs and PCs

A department on our campus is being annoyed by someone coming in to
their offices and 'borrowing' the use of computers.  They are looking
for freeware to 'discourage' this practice.  Any ideas?

Thanks

Dorette Dusterhoft                        dusterho@vm1.nodak.edu
Computer Center
University of North Dakota
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.25]
Date:         Sun, 27 Sep 92 18:33:15 EDT
From:         William Ray Pope <pope@S850.MWC.EDU>
Subject:      Re: A spare day in San Diego
Comments: To: "'Tourism Discussions..'"
              <TRAVEL-L%TREARN.BitNet@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.travel-l

Some would say that it is better to park in the usa and
walk over the border because of the hassle of getting a
car back through customs plus a expect that additional
insurance would be required to take a rental over the
border.  San Diego itself has a great zoo, nice beaches,
and good resturants.  If I were going back I would not
bother with Mexico unless I had time to go further south..

--


William Ray Pope
Institutional Research

INTERNET:   pope@s850.mwc.edu

1301 College Ave.
Mary Washington College
Fredericksburg, Virginia 22401
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.travel,bit.listserv.travel-l,rec.travel,rec.travel.air
From: schrey@oak.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Timothy M. Schreyer)
Subject: Re: Make a friend today, send a postcard to Oz ...
Reply-To: schrey@prc.unisys.com
Organization: Paramax Systems
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 13:07:01 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.123055.5555@gvl.unisys.com>, schrey@oak.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Timothy M. Schreyer) writes:
|> In article <1992Sep30.043238.7745@cc.uow.edu.au>, bernd@cc.uow.edu.au (Bernd Wechner) writes:
|> |> 
|> |> 
|> |> All the best then, and here's hoping we have some friendly people with
|> |> some motivation in the audience tonight ;-).
|> |> 
|>    Be Careful Everyone!  I've heard of a new linguistically advanced
|>    midget that has been developed in Australia!
|> 
   Apologies to all the travel people!  My response was only really
   understandable for the people who read alt.culture.electric-midget.

-- 
 Timothy M. Schreyer                         schrey@prc.unisys.com
 Center for Advanced Information Technology  (215) 648-2475 
 Paramax Systems Corporation                 FAX: (215) 648-2288
 PO Box 517, Paoli, PA 19301
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: travel-l@TREARN.BITNET
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Priority: normal
X-Pmrqc:      1
X-Mailer:     Pegasus Mail v2.3 (R4).
Date:         Thu, 1 Oct 92 17:09:39 TUR
From:         Michelle Lehman <MICHELLE@ORTTA.UMN.EDU>
Subject:      Whale Watching
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.travel-l

Hi,

    I would like to go whale watching sometime (hopefully next
year) and was wondering if anyone else has done this and what some
good pointers might be (as to peak time and a good place to do this).
    I'm planning a trip to CA in late May of 1993, but I've been told
they're pretty much gone by then, so it is probably out during that
trip.  I've also been told that there's someplace in Canada that has
these kind of tours and they take you out in a boat and you can get
right up next to them.
    If anyone can help me, I'd be most appreciative.  Thanks!


Michelle
U of MN - Mpls                                 michelle@ortta.umn.edu
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU