HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sfsmith@pennsas.upenn.edu (Sandy F. Smith, Jr.)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: They've *ruined* the _New Yorker_
Date: 15 Oct 92 21:31:07 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <1992Oct15.022509.17598@boy.com>, robert@boy.com (Robert A. Swirsky) writes:
> 
> 
> Does anyone else think that the new _New Yorker_ format stinks?
> 
> Not only have they started those horrible smelly perfume advertisments,
> they started a *letters* *to* *the* *editor* column!

Pity.  There goes one of _Spy's_ best recurring features _ "Letters to the
Editor of _The New Yorker_"...

> 
> In this week's issue, some Clueless Reader wrote to ask what they meant by a
> "tetragrammatonic mustache."

I see I'm going to have to go out and buy a copy of _The New[! and Improved!]
Yorker_.  I'm not shy about complex words and phrases myself, but I suspect
there are more than a few not-so-clueless readers who have forgotten their
geometry.  I hope they explained the term....

> 
> At the end of the magazine, there's now a column along the lines of _Time's_
> (or is it _Newsweek's_) "my turn." And all writers now have *great* *big*
> *bylines*.

"My Turn" is a _Newsweek_ feature of occasional value.  As for the bylines,
prestige ain't what it used to be....

**************************************************************************
Sandy F. Smith, Jr. ____________________________ sfsmith@pennsas.upenn.edu
Graduate Division, School of Arts and Sciences, University of Pennsylvania
16 College Hall, Philadelphia, PA 19104-6378.  (Opinions mine, not Penn's)
 
"The God I serve don't make no trash!"
      -- Rev. Emanuel Cleaver, Mayor, City of Kansas City, Mo.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: coren@osf.org (Robert Coren)
Subject: Re: Tired and Impatient (was Re: Dietrich, Madonna, etc.)
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 14:37:14 GMT

In article <mattm-151092150510@mcmelmon.apple.com>, mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon) writes:

> Now would be a good time, Nelson, for an orgasm joke - you're much
> better at it than I am...

I think this is very likely to be true.

As it happens, Nelson is at this moment boarding, or waiting to board,
an airplane -- at least, he'd better be -- so he probably won't have a
chance to respond. Others will fill in for him, no  doubt.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore)
Subject: Re: Ah, Fashion.
Organization: Cornell Theory Center
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 13:51:17 GMT

In article <1454@dosbears> drp@dosbears.uucp writes:
|In article <1at35iINNngi@mizar.usc.edu> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
|>As I said before, Madonna is the Jayne Mansfield of the 
|>'80s and '90s, and if you don't know what that means, then
|>you have absolutely no business talking about who is or
|>is not an icon.

It means she's going to die a particularly gory death?

|but I will suggest that Madonna is an iconoclast rather than an icon.

Naaaah.  She only thinks she is.
--
       Melinda Shore - Cornell Theory Center - shore@tc.cornell.edu
From: ST402341@brownvm.brown.edu (Gary Byma)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: WARNING: Stealth African Marauding soc.motss
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 16:52:23 EDT
Organization: Brown University - Providence, Rhode Island  USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: brownvm.brown.edu
News-Software: BNN via BNN_POST v1.0 beta

In article <1992Oct11.000827.22450@wam.umd.edu>, lovegod@wam.umd.edu (Donald
Andrew Agarrat) said:
>
>I propose that if soc.motss is, in the eternal words of James Brown
>(almost), A White Man's World, another newsgroup should exist that recognizes
>ALL gay people - NOT just the more intellectual, NOT just the (supposedly)
>more articulate, and definitely NOT just focusing on the desires of ONE
>race of people.  A newsgroup that allows people to say something stupid
>once in a while without being relentlessly clobbered into never posting
>anything ever again.
>
>Now, don't mistake this post for me saying "Can't we all just get along?"
>because I feel that that's bullshit.  I don't want to get along with you if
>you, as a White person, think that you're better than me and think that you
>are  doing something for me by "gettin' along" with me.
[...]
>
>Over the last couple of months, my hatred for the average White person has
>been quite difficult to handle. My rage continues to grow astronomically,
>because I know that race relations in this country are either going nowhere
>or are getting worse.
>Donald - Nigger Stompin' African

I found your posting deeply distressing. And perhaps you are right when you
say that race relations in this country are not improving. However, for me
personally, race relations have continued to improve. While I can never really
understand what it is like to grow up as a member of a racial minority, I
learned from a friend that it means daily getting up and facing the
possibility of encountering prejudice and bigotry. And I have not merely
learned to tolerate minority members, but I believe that my attitudes and
views have changed and continue to change. I, like you, wish for the day
when skin color, gender, sexual orientation or whatever might set you
apart as a minority, won't matter. But, as my father once told me, the
only person I have the power to change is myself. And I am attempting to
do that. Furthermore, I attempt to persuade others to change themselves,
to get them to see their own prejudice and bigotry. Were I in a position
of power, I might be able to do more. Alas, I am not.
What really distresses me is your rage. I cannot judge the rightness or
or wrongness of the rage, but I hope that recognizing it will help you
deal with it. Confront it. Otherwise it will only grow. And the object
of your rage will not be the only victim. You yourself will pay a heavy
penalty. Please recognize that not every white person is the enemy. Some
of us are allies and we would dearly like to be part of the solution.

Gary Byma
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Anagram program
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 92 18:18:56 GMT


In article <1992Oct12.164035.14718@gordian.com>
mike@gordian.com (Michael A.  Thomas) writes:

>In emcmanus@gr.osf.org (Eamonn McManus) writes a small program:

He didn't write it; he sent it.

>  Do you suppose that you can render your program in Helvetica?
>Times Roman makes it much more difficult to read in this case. 

Um, I think you do that on your end, er, you know what I mean?

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: lovegod@wam.umd.edu (Donald Andrew Agarrat)
Subject: Re: WARNING: Stealth African Marauding soc.motss
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 04:11:17 GMT

In article <1687F1062B.CJR10@CCCVM.CCC.AMDAHL.COM> cjr10@cccvm.ccc.amdahl.com  
(Chris Russell) writes:
} Problem is, just about everyone, gay/straight, white/black, etc. can
} lay claim to injustices done to them by some other group, somewhere
} in history.

What Utter Bullshit!  "Other people have problems, you don't see THEM  
complaining, do you?"  That's like Dan Quayle saying, "I remember that day when  
the milkman didn't come and we had to drink orange juice ..."
From: laura@hoptoad.uucp (Laura Creighton)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Ah, Fashion.
Date: 10 Oct 92 06:24:54 GMT
Reply-To: laura@hoptoad.UUCP (Laura Creighton)
Distribution: world
Organization: Nebula Consultants in San Francisco

In article <ld8qsvINNll3@spim.mti.sgi.com> dauber@tattoo.mti.sgi.com (Jeff Dauber) writes:
>|> |>If you are going to spend $2000 on a suit, why not find a tailor
>|> |>and get one made perfectly and exactly to your specifications with
>|> |>all the material and lining exactly as you want?
>|> |>
>|> |>no criticism here, just curiosity...
>|> |>
>|> 
>Because most people do not have the talents to design a truly stylish 
>suit.  Most tailors are skilled when it comes to designing basic suits,
>and are also experienced at modifying other people's suits.  However,
>if you have a tailor who has the ability to design a suit which is of
>$2000 you will find that they will be designing suits for a living, not
>working as a tailor.
>
>
>FWA
>-Grandson of a tailor


Again, no criticism, just curiosity.

10 years ago, in Toronto, or San Francisco, it was impossible for
me to find a very good business suit for $200 -- the sort of suit
that would be eternally in fashion, wears well, and is comfortable
to wear.  You could fine pleanty of cocktail and dinner dresses,
for a lot more money, which were as uncomfortable as the cheaper
sort but looked more glamourous.

Me, I wanted a business suit.  I spent $750, more than I have
ever spent on any single purchase, and a wonderful Vietnamese
tailor.  And My grey 3 piece suit is still the best outfit I own.
Wearing it, I have made far more than its purchase price in deals
closed, jobs hired, and more deal closed.

Perhaps my problem is that I don't know the difference between
a $750 suit, and a $2000 suit.  

I am convinced that my Vietnamese tailor could be designing
great suits.  But to be a great designer, you need a ton
of cash and the ability to crack the high fashion market.
He didn't have either.  But he was very happy to take my
$750, and all the other customers, other women who liked
my suit and were willing to pay for him to make suits.

He retired 5 years ago.  2 years ago, when I went to
Toronto, I wanted to get another suit made... alas he
was gone.

I believe that the world is full of tailors who are working
for a fraction of what they would get if they knew how to
crack the high fashion barrier.  I want them to make my suits
while I can get them for $1000, rather than $2000, or $5000.

The real problem for me is that is is very difficult to get
very good women's clothes.  And cheaply made business clothes
are very expensive in the women's clothing store.  It is,
in my opinion, an unexplored market.

you can spent $200 -- $400 and get a good suit that is
fashionable for few years, 2 to 4.  Give me something
in double that price range which I will be able to
wear for a decade?

Look...look...look...

nothing.  Womens' fashions appears to be non-durable goods.

-- 
    Since Ryan White was buried in April 1990, his grave has been vandalized
    four times.

    (this news courtesy Rod Williams rjwill6@pacbell.com)

Laura Creighton 
toad@toad.com
hoptoad!laura
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Sooner Rather Than Later (was Re: WARNING)
Date: 14 Oct 92 12:10:24 GMT
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison


In article <1992Oct14.044749.8971@seq.uncwil.edu>
drollin@seq.uncwil.edu (David A.  Rollins) writes:

>I agree with much of what you said, however, fighting racism with
>racism and perpetuating violence is not the answer.

On the assumption it's me you're speaking to here (in the
absence of clues, and would you mind awfully being a bit
more vigilant about that):

That was a long, and (I thought) serious piece, with a lot
of ideas in it.  It does *not* in my admittedly biased
opinion, boil down to "fighting racism with racism
and perpetuating violence."  If you think it does, perhaps
you could trouble yourself with some argument to support
that point.

I don't exactly understand how you could use that phrase,
which is after all one of the chief fear-mongering tools of
the white racists, a very close equivalent of the
homophobes' "no special rights" cant.

Racism is Doing the Wrong Thing.  We have to fight it with
everything we've got.  But to allege, as I think that phrase
does, that we're such ninnyhammers as not to know when the
oppressed are being oppressive, is a severe put-down, and
after all that's why some whites use it in their "reverse
discrimination," "no quotas" lines of bullshit.

I did not write for over an hour to get your two-line
platitude; I hear that particular line quite a lot from what
I think of as the opposition.  As I think we're quite
substantially in agreement about some things, I'm paying you
the compliment of not accepting that.

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Further Butchification
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 92 00:33:22 GMT


In article <1992Oct9.213342.1881@netcom.com> jfh@netcom.com
(Jack Hamilton) writes:

>In article <1992Oct9.150923.23624@macc.wisc.edu>
>anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:

>>Ich habe deinen Mund gekuesst, Iokanaan.  [...] Hat es nach
>>Blut geschmeckt?  Nein, doch schmeckte es vielleicht nach
>>Tomato.  Reich' mir den Mahler, bitte.

>My German's not up to that, my German being almost
>non-existent, but I do recognize what it's taken from.
>Somehow this makes me think of the recent discussions of
>cultural literacy.

Sorry.  I'd intended to include a translation, but was
distracted just after writing it and then forgot to add it
before sending the posting off.  As you surmise, the text is
from very near the end of Richard Strauss's opera "Salome."
The quote you had said: "Opera is a blood sport.  Pass the
tomatoes."  My parody comes at the very end and harks back to
your opening about eating while listening to the Resurrection
Symphony, which topic has an arguable connection to John the
Baptist.  I was indeed drawing on cultural literacy in an
effort to get it all in.

It's Salome speaking, having just had the severed head of
John the Baptist presented her on a silver salver, an
execution she demanded in promised exchange for her sexual
favors.  She has just kissed the gory mouth.  The translation
is:

   I kissed your mouth, John [the Hebrew name, as glossed
   earlier today].  [(in the elipsis) It seemed a bitter
   taste.] Did it taste of blood?  No, really it was more
   the taste of love [except I put "tomatoes"].

[Then continuing out of the opera quote and sliding back
to your quote, the turn on "tomatoes,"] 

   Pass the Mahler [resurrection].

<> It is not difference which immobilizes us, but silence. 
<> And there are so many silences to be broken.
<> -- Audre Lorde
-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Dietrich, Madonna, etc.
Date: 9 Oct 1992 12:30:26 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <1b4m1oINNaq7@mizar.usc.edu> 
adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) exclaimed:

> You're so hot under the color, dear!

Collar.

Arne

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: buckmr@vccnw05.its.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
Subject: Re: URGENT - Pat Robertson info Needed (expanded)
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 20:19:45 GMT

dbailey@cix.compulink.co.uk (Diane Bailey) writes:




>For him to be disqualified we need to show the licensing
>authority that he is an _officer_ of an organisation that is
>"wholely or mainly political".  Political means anything from
>trying to influence voting, a change in law or public policy,
>upwards.

>Obviously he does these things all the time.  But the problem is
>that the licensing authority is accepting Robertson's claim that
>the Christian Broadcasting Network and the Family Channel are only
>religious.  And, although I have lots of references to Robertson
>"having an agenda", and to him writing this or that item of
>filth, or to the Christian Coalition, the Christian Right, the
>700 Club, The Coalition on Revival, the National Co-ordinating
>Council and the Roads to Victory Conference, I have nothing
>that places on record either that his companies have a purpose
>which we can show is political (such as being there to increase
>the number of right-wing legislators, or to stop abortion, or to
>prevent LesBiGay rights), OR that actually says Robertson is an
>_officer_ of one of the clearly political groups.
The Christian Coalition has given $20 000 dollars to the Oregon's Citizen's
Alliance. Isn't Robertson the head of the Christian Coalition? Also, he ran
for President in 1988, didn't he? Perhaps he never got rid of his political
ties that he had established to get himself elected. He has DEFINITELY done
blatant political stuff in the past but he may not be doing that any more.


>Does he have an official position in the Republican Party (or was
>he just "leading the prayers" at their hate-fest)?
He was probably a delegate to the convention.
I'm not sure exactly how yu would find out for sure by Tuesday.

-- 
RON BUCKMIRE, 11 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735. 
vox:(518)-276-8910 fax:(518)-276-6920 buckmr@rpi.edu buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet
"Wouldn't it be wonderful to have a cure for AIDS in the marketplace before
Magic Johnson gets AIDS?" --Vice-President J. Danforth Quayle 11/13/91 on CNN.
From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Ah, Fashion.
Date: 8 Oct 92 16:36:42 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Oct8.163642.19663
Organization: insert anything here

In article <15960@umd5.umd.edu> jns@elea.umd.edu (J. N. Shaumeyer) writes:

>Bob Donahue (rdonahue@spdcc.com), 

>> ...  I would probably make the
>> mental note "Oh, he's wearing a suit", ....

>I pause merely to point out that when it's
>"Oh, oh my, he's wearing a suit and he's
>bringing me *flowers*", the feeling is 
>qualitatively different.  I still have
>a tendancy to walk slightly above ground
>level.

	Oh my.  :-)

	Actually the above (from me) is about the limit that my
thoughts would linger on the apparel (outside of the otherwise mentioned
de-gift_wrapping of suited ursines).  It's sort of like going outside
after a movie andnoticing a wet ground and saying "Oh, it rained".
or "Oh, there's a new 7-11 opening at 10t and Oscar Wilde Blvd."
I suppose that marks me even more on the clueless side, but given
that I haven't been penalized for the lack of any more information one
couldget from reading the little print on a an Armani labvel,
I spupose that's why I find the idea that fashion is meaningful
sort of ludicrous and tire of hearing how it will in some way
change what *must* be my miserable life without it.

	Oh dear I'm soapboxing again... just when things weree
blissfully frivolous... :-)

{{d}  (for you vi nerdz)

BBC - abourt to see if
Lotus123 for the Sun will imporve his sex life.
(or at least let me play with 50 columns of data).

P.S> Linguists have been searching for the true meaning of imporve
for years, but I don't kiss and tell...  or maybe I do... :-)
From: roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: "Hypocrisy" (was: WARNING: Stealth African ...)
Date: 14 Oct 92 18:16:12 GMT
Reply-To: roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips)
Organization: Quantime Ltd, London (software for market research)

In article <1992Oct13.194856.25103@netcom.com>,
foucault@netcom.com (Howard Arthur Faye) writes:
> In article <1992Oct13.163442.28435@netcom.com>
> jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton) writes:
> >No.  Ronald Reagan was a hypocrite in the literal sense of the word.  
>
> Has 'hypocrisy' become the patent put-down of the 90's? I keep running
> into accusations and descriptions of 'hypocrisy' that make no sense.

What I want to know is: what's the _figurative_ sense of the word?

-- 
Roger Phillips                            roger@quantime.co.uk
"*frazil* n. ice in small spikes and plates in rapid streams"
-- Chambers English Dictionary (1988)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Joan-Rhymes (was Re: Sean)
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 92 14:17:21 GMT


In article <1992Oct10.131951.9195@tc.cornell.edu>
shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore) writes:

>In article <1992Oct10.023217.24844@netcom.com>
jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton) writes:

>>I don't know about Jess, but I can't, and typically don't see a need to.
>>"Pin" vs. "pen" is more problematic. 

>I don't recall, exactly, but might you be from Tennessee?

Kentucky, I thought, but no difference on the point (of the
pin/pen).

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
From: ry@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (ryerson.schwark)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: WARNING: Stealth African Marauding soc.motss
Date: 13 Oct 92 17:37:46 GMT
Organization: UNIX System Laboratories, Summit, NJ

In article <1992Oct13.153338.3279@wam.umd.edu> lovegod@wam.umd.edu (Donald Andrew Agarrat) writes:

>How does one expect to "fix" today by ignoring yesterday?


Who said ignore?  I said don't obsess.  Look at the analogy for queer
people.  We used to get burned at the stake.  Then we were locked up,
and the church has been a force for the deprivation of our rights for
a long long time.  This does not mean that I wish to burn every christian
I see, or hate them all.  Focus on the now and talk about the now.
The past informs the present, but it does not control it, and nobody
can make up for past wrongs, they can just try to right the wrongs of
today.

Ry
ry@usl.com
From: aberson@enh.nist.gov
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Thirty years
Date: 15 Oct 92 15:42:13 GMT
Organization: NIST

From the Sunday, October 11, Tropic Magazine (Miami Herald):

Meg Laughlin writes about the papers left behind by an elderly, wealthy,
and ultra-conservative woman upon her death last year.  Among her papers
was something called the "FBI Warning Chart 1962."  This chart was
distributed by the John Birch Society to "depict major issues propagandized
by the Communist Party U.S.A" with the permission of J. Edgar Hoover.
The list is as follows:

1.  "Peaceful" coexistence
2.  Outlawing all nuclear weapons
3.  "Disarmament"
4.  Admission of Communist China to the United Nations
5.  Diplomatic recognition of Communist China by the United States
6.  Reunification of Germany in accordance with Soviet propocols
7.  Repeal of the Smith Act and the Internal Security Act of 1950
8.  Exchange of delegations between the United States and the Soviet Union
9.  Federal intervention to guarantee civil rights of negroes in the South.

These to a large extent had come true in the past 30 years.  It amazes me
what our country had fought against for so long.

For fun, Ms. Laughlin called the John Birch Society to get their current
list:

1.  Term limitations of any elected official
2.  National health care
3.  A national police corps
4.  Federally funded day care
5.  A society in which it "makes no difference whether boys marry girls or
    other boys"  [apparently, it shouldn't make a difference who girls marry?]
6.  Environmental "crises" leading to legally binding treaties between nations
7.  U.S. troops fighting under foreign command
8.  American women assigned to combat roles.
9.  The U.N. as a world government, "an institution authorized to enforce
    its decisions with respect to war prevention."

While not extremely excited about all of these, I certainly hope it doesn't
take another thirty years for most of these to come to pass.

       Sim Aberson   Ft. Lauderdale, FL   aberson%3328.span@sdsc.edu
"It's always Beach Party Barbie, or Malibu Barbie....  That shit does not
prepare you for the true horror of a real woman's life.  Where is Single,
Abused, Trailer-Park Barbie?"             - Roseanne Arnold