HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Organization: Current Science Tel: +44 71 323 0323 Fax: +44 71 580 1938
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 1992 20:52:37 EDT
From:         Graham Toal <gtoal@CURSCI.CO.UK>
Subject:      Re: Something old, something new
Comments: To: Words-L and the Bandwidth Hogs <words-l@uga.cc.uga.edu>

On Thu, 10 Sep 1992 13:54:24 EST, "Entropy Warrior" <AUSBROOK@UCS.INDIANA.EDU>
 wrote:
> pretty hollow.  Courts tend to presume that where a legislature
> uses a term that has a fixed common law meaning, it "intended"
> the word to have that meaning, even if the legislature said
> nothing about what it intended or didn't intend.

The morally correct thing to do is, if any of those who drafted the
legislation are still alive, to ask them what they meant by it when
they wrote it.

G
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Date:         Mon, 14 Sep 1992 16:55:00 CDT
From:         "815 Stephen H. Karlson 753-6980"
 <TA0SHK1%NIU.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject: Re: Gleanings (59)

Michael E. Macmillan asks if there are other defenders of the
distinction between "which" and "that."

Yes.  Bill Sjostrom raised my consciousness of that distinction a
few years ago.  I've been a which-hunter ever since.

BTW, what is "ideological" about changing "which" to "that"?

Steve Karlson

Get a good start and sail on the lifted tack.
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Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 1992 01:09:58 EST
From:         Entropy Warrior <AUSBROOK@UCS.INDIANA.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Who's there?

>>Anyone got a good popular etymology for Hoosier?  C'mon Tushar,
>We beat this to death before you were born, sonny.
>
>Karen

Geez--was that warthog sweat in your orange juice bottle this
morning?

-Mka
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Date:         Sat, 5 Sep 1992 05:09:19 MED
From:         Graham Toal <gtoal@STACK.URC.TUE.NL>
Subject:      Re: Aspiration
Comments: To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>

oops - did I say a.f.u?  I meant a.u.e; easily confused, since a.f.u housed
most etymological discussions before a.u.e was created.

Huckleberry is derived from Hurtleberry, from Whortleberry; whort is
from the same old Saxon root (ahem) as wort and wyrt.

I believe linguists have this term 'huckleberry morpheme' meaning a
morpheme whose origin is untracable.  Unfortunately huckleberry
is a bad example.  (So would it's sister 'cranberry' be - i bet
Torkel knows that one)

G
(How did I *know* we would go through this again - it was for
Natalie's benefit on alt.usage.english a year ago that I spent
nearly a week researching the bloody thing)
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Return-Path: <tushar@math.uchicago.edu>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Fri, 11 Sep 1992 21:06:02 CDT
From:         tushar@MATH.UCHICAGO.EDU
Subject:      Re: Draft Dodgers

>By the way, I'm back. How is everybody?
>
>Emily @ UCLA

I had a minor shock a while ago when I thought you had unsubscribed.
Don't know how I got the impression. Anyway, I am fine, for one.

tushar
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Fri, 11 Sep 1992 09:15:12 CDT
From:         MIPS+Toys=Bandwidth <aharwell@PANAM1.PANAM.EDU>
Subject:      Aaack
Comments: To: words-l@uga.cc.uga.edu

Dammit! NO bit.listserv groups in this NNTP feed!

-abh
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Date:         Mon, 14 Sep 1992 16:21:36 GMT
Comments:     To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Comments:     cc: Multiple recipients of list WORDS-L <WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Comments:     Resent-From: James <ADVPD070@CCSUVM1.BITNET>
Comments:     Originally-From: Susan Harwood Kaczmarczik
              <amadeus@CCWF.CC.UTEXAS.EDU>
From:         James <ADVPD070%CCSUVM1.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      The Devil Was Beating His Wife Today...

----------------------------Original message----------------------------
...which means, of course, that it rained while the sun was still shining.

Does anyone else know/use this particular saying (besides my mother, who
taught it to me)?  Any variations?  Does anyone have any idea where this
saying came from?

I have never heard this used as a saying other than an old rural belief that
if it rained while the sun was shining, that it would rain again the
next day at the same time.

Just living here in tall cotton in beautiful Corpus Christi Texas,
James
advpd070 at ccsuvm1
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
From: maya@carina.unm.edu ()
Subject: Re: One of Two Jokes
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 92 16:55:31 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

	What a lovely image.  Sam Wyche on the sidelines, burning candles
and incense, turning tarot cards on the turf.  He puts his hands to his
temples and telepathically sends in the next play; meanwhile assistants
behind him poke needles into dolls representing the outside linebackers.
The defensive line is gathered in a knot by the gatorade, casting the 
I Ching.  
	"The strong man yields without breaking,
	 The waters of the lake remain placid."  reads a 304 pound
noseguard with brows furrowed in intense concentration, he who graduated
barely literate.
	
>                            Peace,
>                                  Don

-maya (whose Rams lost most rationally 40-7)


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Date:         Mon, 7 Sep 1992 06:48:09 CDT
From:         "Natalie Maynor" <maynor@RA.MSSTATE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Gleanings (58)
Comments: To: WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu

> "Ferio" is a new version of the Honda Civic.  I believe it is being
> targeted at female 'yuppie' types.  I don't know whether or not it is
> being sold in the U.S.

Oh good.  Sounds like a car for me.  ;-)   Btw, I wonder what the upper
cut-off age is for a yuppie...

If it's not sold in the U.S., maybe I can pick one up at next year's list
clambake in Tokyo.

> Nothing is missing from the archive tape, as far as I know.  The weekly

Except for the first few weeks or so before Akio subscribed.  I wish I
had saved the very first postings.  The list started in October '89.

> 36) Sour dirt/mash (Natalie/Dan)

Somebody compared the taste of something (was it rhubarb?) to sour dirt.
I pointed out that some Mississippians like to eat dirt, although I wasn't
sure about sour dirt.  Dan said something about Mississippians and sour
mash.  Sour mash is a style of bourbon.  Somebody more knowledgeable than I
can probably explain how it's made.  Maker's Mark is an excellent brand
of sour mash.

> 43) Will Clark/Rafael Palmeiro (Ken W.)

Baseball stars at Mississippi State University a few years ago.  Ken said
that they had come here on football scholarships.  I didn't realize that.
   --Natalie (maynor@ra.msstate.edu)
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Tue, 15 Sep 1992 16:26:26 CDT
From:         "Natalie Maynor" <maynor@RA.MSSTATE.EDU>
Subject:      Bounced Mail
Comments: To: words-l@uga.cc.uga.edu

****************************************************************
 REMINDER:  WHEN INCLUDING A PREVIOUS LIST POSTING IN SOMETHING
 YOU'RE SENDING TO THE LIST, BE SURE TO EDIT OUT ALL REFERENCES
 TO WORDS-L IN THE HEADERS.       o/.\___/
                                   \_____|   Dr. Perro
                                   / \ / \
****************************************************************
> Date:         Tue, 15 Sep 1992 17:21:50 -0400
> From: Revised List Processor (1.7c) <LISTSERV@uga.cc.uga.edu>
> Subject:      Delivery error notice sent to list WORDS-L
> To: MAYNOR@RA.MSSTATE.EDU, Jeff Kell <JEFF%UTCVM.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
>
>The enclosed mail file, found in the WORDS-L reader and shown under the spoolid
>9087  in the  console log,  has been  identified as  a possible  delivery error
>notice  for  the following  reason:  "Sender:",  "From:" or  "Reply-To:"  field
>pointing to the list has been found in mail body.
>
> ------------------------- Message in error (91 lines)
 -------------------------
> Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 23:19:03 MED
> From: gtoal@stack.urc.tue.nl (Graham Toal)
> Subject: weird bouncies
>
> I just replied to an article from Brad and my reply was bounced as apparently
> illegal listserv commands.  Here are brad's post & my bounce - I *didn't*
> accidentally send it to listserv.  This has happened to other people too,
> occasionally, no?
> ---
> Date:         Tue, 15 Sep 1992 14:34:24 EDT
> From: BGRISSOM@UKCC.UKY.EDU
> Subject:      AHD3
>
> I believe it was Rod who gave an advance preview here of the new 3rd edition
> of The American Heritage Dictionary.  I bought it last night, intending to
> give it to someone as a wedding present, but now that I've opened it up,
> I won't be able to part with it.  Haven't had time to look at more than a
> few entries, but these are dandies -- the "usage notes" under "hopefully,"
> "that/which," "shall/will" and so forth.  These seem to me to be quite
> sane advisories, sort of a descriptive prescriptivism.  Oh, and here's a
> word I learned from it: absquatulate.  I'll be looking for an opening
> to use that one.
>
> By the way, happy [43rd?] birthday, Rod!
>
> brad
>
> ---
> Date:         Tue, 15 Sep 1992 17:11:14 -0400
> From: Revised List Processor (1.7c) <LISTSERV@uga.cc.uga.edu>
> Subject:      Output of your job "gtoal"
> To: gtoal@stack.urc.tue.nl
>
> > 	sane advisories, sort of a descriptive prescriptivism.  Oh, and here's a
> Unknown command - "	SANE". Try HELP.
>
> All subsequent commands have been flushed.
>
> Summary of resource utilization
> -------------------------------
>  CPU time:        0.002 sec                Device I/O:     0
>  Overhead CPU:    0.002 sec                Paging I/O:     0
>  CPU model:        9021                    DASD model:  3380
>
> ----
> PS The posting was about 'quomodocunquize'
>
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Wed, 9 Sep 1992 21:14:00 EDT
From:         Gilbert Smith <N567126@NCSUADM.ACS.NCSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Family Tree
Comments: To: Nancy Harwood <harwood@TENET.EDU>
Comments: cc: Multiple recipients of list WORDS-L <WORDS-L@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU>

  > >      ---------------------------------
  > >      :           :                   :
  > >    ndh        doris                 -ggs
  > >     m.?          m. ?                  m. shag (1)
  >     jdh (who				  m.  tc/sw (2)
  > already makes disparaging
  > remarks about my relatives...
  > somehow I don't think I will
  > show him this)>
  >
  > This is lovely, Gilbert, but I thought we were *cousins*...I think it's
  > Natalie who's your other sister.  Unless, of course, there's an
  > *inheritance* involved. :-)
  > ndh

  Natalie got moved to <aunt> because she takes such good care of
  everyone in a feminine avuncular sort of way...   we are all going
  to have to gang up on jdh if he doesn't shape up *fast*....
  Nobody talks about *my* family that way and gets away with it...
  We'll send -Mka to beat him up.
  --ggs (who can tell that *everyone* is going to want in on this
        .....  blood *is* thicker than warter....)
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Date:         Fri, 11 Sep 1992 22:58:23 EDT
From:         EL406041@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU
Subject:      Re: Zen
Comments: To: words-l@uga.cc.uga.edu

Posted on 11 Sep 1992 at 22:18:54 by tushar@MATH.UCHICAGO.EDU
>>>With a bow and your hands together.
>>
>>Only if you want to look like a fool.
>
>I resent this remark!
>
>tushar


Ouch! I knew you'd catch this.  But, Tushar, do you practice Zen?
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Date:         Wed, 9 Sep 1992 23:50:00 EDT
From:         Gilbert Smith <N567126@NCSUADM.ACS.NCSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Klennex
Comments: To: Doretta Hanschka <ak743@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>
Comments: cc: Multiple recipients of list WORDS-L <WORDS-L@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU>

> >Ruth, be a good girl and 'pologize to --ggs, OK?
> OK, sorry -ggs, oh king of <missspelllinggggssss>
> Nethead, aka the Ruth Hanschka, hath enscribed herein, a message

Well, o.k. but 1) I don't think this apology is sincere, and
2) if you don't behave, I'll put you in the story of Agnes, maybe
even in the sewers-beneath-the-streets-of-Stockholm.  That is a
threat.
.
--ggs
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Date:         Mon, 14 Sep 1992 09:56:54 EDT
From:         Rita Marie Rouvalis <rita@EFF.ORG>
Subject:      Re: Gleanings (59)
Comments: To: WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu
              92 2:22 pm

> 18) CFPIII (Rita)


	Third Annual Conference on Computers, Freedom, and Privacy.
Conference that addresses these issues that is partly sponsored by the
organization I work for.  Always attended by impressive numbers of
net.gods and goddesses.


> 25) "Malquiades"/OHYOS (Rita/<Gilbert>)

	Melquiades.  One of the characters in OHYOS --
One Hundred Years of Solitude, by *Colombian* (now living
in Mexico and hanging with Castro) author Gabriel Garcia Marquez.


Rita
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Date:         Sun, 13 Sep 1992 16:00:40 -0500
From:         Anne Burton Harwell <harwell@TENET.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Hopefully
Comments: To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>

On Sun, 13 Sep 1992, Natalie Maynor wrote:

> >  It does not serve as a substitute for "I hope."
>
> It doesn't?  Then why have I heard sentences like "Hopefully, it will
> rain tomorrow."  Sure sounds to me like a substitute for "I hope."

Because, you pie-in-the-sky-descriptivist, people don't always speak
correctly. You've also heard "it don't make no difference." That doesn't
make the double negative a substitute for what we should say.

-abh
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Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 1992 03:09:09 MED
From:         Graham Toal <gtoal@STACK.URC.TUE.NL>
Subject:      Re: Teaching....
Comments: To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>

: about the part of the quotation that pointed out not only did prescriptivists
: go against common usage in their prescriptions about "disinterested" but that
: they also didn't understand that the etymology was not even on their side.

Your part of the world must be more <common> than mine, because people
here generally know the difference.  And pleading to antiquity isn't
a valid rationalisation for using a meaning of a word totally
counter to the more common common understanding.  For instance, if
I suggested you were <terribly nice>, you wouldn't automatically
assume a meaning of those words not heard in centuries.

G
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Date:         Mon, 7 Sep 1992 12:11:32 -0500
From:         Anne Burton Harwell <harwell@TENET.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Howdy from the green place
Comments: To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Comments: cc: Multiple recipients of list WORDS-L <WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>

Bill!

Missed you majorly. Glad to know you are still alive. Hope Ireland doesn't
make you, er, grouchy. Guess you'll be down to London to say hi to Graham
soon.;-)

-abh

_____________________________________________________________________________
Tenet: a warm fuzzy place where we are all friends.
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Return-Path: <tushar@math.uchicago.edu>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 1992 01:39:41 CDT
From:         tushar@MATH.UCHICAGO.EDU
Subject: Re: Family Tree

Leaving out most of the details of this sappy nonsense,

>   |
> dgtr
>  m.?

I remember reading that something like "dgtr" is thought to be the proto-
Indo-European word for daughter.

tushar
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Date:         Tue, 8 Sep 1992 22:32:17 -0500
From:         Doris Smith <dorisann@TENET.EDU>
Subject: re: family
Comments: To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Comments: cc: Multiple recipients of list WORDS-L <WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>

> Does this mean I don't get the grandchildren?
> --ggs

Am I imagining things, or didn't you mention something some time ago about
becoming a grandfather in a few months (for real)?  What is the status?
Doris
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Date:         Fri, 11 Sep 1992 21:29:26 -0500
From:         Anne Burton Harwell <harwell@TENET.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Re[2]: RICHH: PLOOK!
Comments: To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>

On Sat, 12 Sep 1992, Graham Toal wrote:

> That's because some asshole indiscriminately xposted some random tripe
> to three usenet groups and us.  Now we'll get the followups for months.
> Bloody rich, that's what I call it.

Usenet kultur, I call it.

-abh
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Date:         Mon, 7 Sep 1992 09:40:00 -0400
From:         Joan Boorstein <boorstein%umbsky.dnet@NS.UMB.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Old Machines
Comments: To: words-l@ns.umb.edu

I meant to respond to this a while back -- just found it in
cleaning out my mbox.

ggs talks about his old cars:
>been a)charging the battery to my tc/sw's 74 Cadillac Eldorado
>to move it to the front driveway, and b)chargin the battery to my
>'74 VW bus to move it to the alley behind the house, after using
>it to push the '74 Porsche 914 up a little in the front driveway,

and so does Mka:
>still chug around in my '77 VW bus--it's more holes than metal,
>but the most reliable buggy I shall ever hope to own.  And I do
>indeed have a '73 914--that is going in next week to have the

I'm glad that others enjoy cars of this vintage -- current Boorstein
vehicles are two Chevy Caprices: 1976 (rather new to us -- only 34,000
miles -- found by daughter in Indy) and 1978 with nearly 110,000 miles
on it -- there's some rust and the motor is not as peppy as the 1976,
but she works well.  My husband won't have any of the newer versions
-- too much electronic, computerized stuff on the motor, etc. -- rarely
work as well as these older models.

We just recently sold a 1981 VW Rabbit with ~90,000 miles on it --
it had developed a cracked block about 2 years ago and we drove
it as long the oil leak was manageable -- someone offered my husband
about $500 for it and I think he'd had enough and let it go -- all in
all a very reliable car for doing things here in town.

I want back the Buick Grand National he sold to a friend in Allentown.
I doubt that I'll ever drive anything quite so powerful -- sure
was fun to drive -- never used much except on the highway and not too
much of that -- one of my husband's 'toy' cars -- just sold his Mustang
to our son -- a 1968 Nova is being prepped as the next 'fun car'.
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Date:         Tue, 15 Sep 1992 11:03:30 EDT
From:         Karen Kay <LL23%NEMOMUS.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      Hmmm....
Comments: To: words-l@uga.cc.uga.edu

Well, I've been posting items of interest (items of disinterest?
uninteresting items??) now and then from the JAL Newsletter.
The July newsletter announced that JAL now serves noodles in
business class, more specifically udon (thick white, wheat noodles).
And they call it "Udon de Sky".  Am I the only one who wants to
retch??

Also, there's a little thing-y about PMS, which Dan mentioned
earlier--it's a Japanese company.  No worse than Americans trying
to market Novas in Spanish-speaking countries, I think....

The one that *really* cracked me was 'baa-kodo atama' = barcode head.
"...a youthful neologism used to describe middle-aged men w/ hair so
thin it crosses the scalp."  Why do I think of John M Williams?!

Karen
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Date:         Sat, 5 Sep 1992 11:14:46 -0400
From:         Agnes Kruchio <kruchio@EPAS.UTORONTO.CA>
Subject:      Re: Re[2]: Rhubarb Pie: A Plea for Sanity
Comments: To: WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu
              5, 92 12:54 am

>
> H'm -- not that I doubt you for a minit, dan, but I know pica as the eating
> of paint chips and suchlike--

That was also my understanding - if features in the literature about
lead poisoning from lead-based paints: children (and adults, too, I
suppose) who have this crave paint, and must have it, crawling on all
fours, reduced to a subhuman-like state in extreme cases if they don't
get it...


is it also the generic term for eating clay
> etc?

I was wondering too.

Ask your husband, Bayla, and put us out of our mysery.

Agnes
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Date:         Fri, 11 Sep 1992 20:56:23 CDT
From:         "Natalie Maynor" <maynor@RA.MSSTATE.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Today's pop quiz
Comments: To: WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu

> balances in favour of the correct answer.  Would Jim's students all have
> defined disinterested wrongly if they'd done it silently on paper?

You mean that did it orally?  If so, I withdraw what I said about it.
I was assuming all this time that their answers were independent.  It
hadn't entered my mind to think otherwise.

> Anyway, your suggestion is to present them with examples to be judged
> as normal or otherwise.  Examples of *both* words or just disinterested?

Just "disinterested" since it's the word we're discussing.

> If just disinterested, as I already explained it is sufficiently close
> to the correct word that recall will find the meaning of uninterested
> because it is a more common word.

In other words, they equate "disinterested" with "uninterested."  Isn't
that what I was saying?

> PS I suppose we could sample the two years worth of Reuters that's
> available for research, and the Brown corpus, but you'd probably exclude
> them from the sample as you excluded your lunchtime companions because
> they know how to write?

No, they would be fine.  That would be much better than the other suggestions.
Btw, I've read somewhere that the Brown corpus contains some samples of
speech.  Do you know anything about that?  I was wondering where it came
from and who transcribed it.  I've never worked with the Brown corpus.

> PPS on a prescriptivist elitist tack for a few moments: isn't it
> rather worrying that Jim's university-level sociology class *don't*
> know the meaning of disinterested?  I wonder if Bill would mind joining
> in this test with his students over here? ... :)

Why is it worrying?  It doesn't worry me at all.
   --Natalie (maynor@ra.msstate.edu)
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Date:         Sat, 12 Sep 1992 20:21:13 EDT
From:         mgarber@DHVX20.CSUDH.EDU
Subject:      Re: Hopefully
Comments: To: WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu

>hopefully you will like the explanation

If one presumes an ellipse after hopefully with the missing words
being  "I am wishing", so that if spelled out fully, the sentence
would read, Hopefully, I am wishing you will like the
explanation, then hopefully can be understood as a new locution
which includes words left out...
Marilyn, seeking the best from a situation which is not
going to go away.