HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 15:42:26 -0500 
From: Kevin Michael Bernatz <kb32+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Shorter games?

Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 26-Jan-93 Shorter games? Sean C.
Simmons@andrew.c (1623)

>  I don't know about others, but I like netrek.  I really enjoy INL
> games, because they're the highest quality netrek.  Naturally, I want my
> best games to last for a while.  If you see the game as some kind of a
> chore that must be done, then perhaps you should re-think why you're
> playing in the INL at all.

And this is a good place to lead into the next logical thought process. 
If the INL isn't what you want, why have IT at all?  I am going to try
to run a ranking/ladder scheme co-current with whatever the INLC (INL
council) decides to use.  It will use a basic system where each team
starts with 1000 points and when a game is played x% (prob. around 20)
will be put into a pool.  At the end of the game, the pool is split by #
of planets.  Therefore, a team with more points can't afford to tie a
team with lower points because they will lose some points (exp:  A team
puts in 75% of the points and ties.  It only wins 50% of the points
back).  I have yet to include anyways to deal with lag or Home/Away and
would be interested in hearing ideas.  

***NOTE: I want to include ALL results INCLUDING scrimages.  Therefore,
after all games if the server god can send me the a file showing end
planets and telling me who was home and who was away I'll take care of
the rest.***

**Mail results to kb32+@andrew.cmu.edu***

  While some people don't like including scrimages, I would prob. agree
that some won't be included (such as if 1/2 the team can't show and you
use pick-up players) but the more games played the more accurate the
results will be.  As stated above, this will be run co-currently with
the INL and is really just a test run to see how accurate a
ladder/ranking system can be.  However, if you are like me and just
plain sick of all the INL Stiff_Upper_Lip bullshit and just want to play
clued games whether the server is exactly identical or has halftime or
whatever, then let people know.  Personally, I think this INL thing is
getting out of hand.  It was created to foster good, high clue games. 
It was not created to dictate rules to the netrek community.  You are
not our Gods....

-KB
 Rear Admiral Akira

P.S.  Please record my userid (kb32+@andrew.cmu.edu) somewhere so that
you can send all game data with little or no hassle on your part. 
Again, this is mainly a test run to see how well a ladder/ranking system
works for many teams.
From: mdm@cis.ohio-state.edu (Michael Moore)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Halftime
Date: 26 Jan 93 21:09:24 GMT
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science
NNTP-Posting-Host: hadrosaur.cis.ohio-state.edu

In article <MfNKQBe00VpD0yUCIj@andrew.cmu.edu> "Joseph E. Beck" <jb8n+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>tom@soda.berkeley.edu (Tom Holub) writes:
>> So should the NBA go to one 48-minute period?
>Tom, you are the only person I frequently call stupid on a netnews
>board.  This is my personaly feeling and has nothing to do with CMU.
>Personally, during INL games I don't run up and down a court very
>quickly and jump a lot.  But things may be different on Tom's team,
>which would explain all of his sports analogies.
>
>	joe
>	Lamb, Leg Of


	I could use a break about half-time.  I think 2 hours of intense
concentration is mentally gruelling.  It isn't that I couldn't do it,
but the game would be more enjoyable overall.

	Maybe you don't play hard enough during the game?  Or perhaps
you simply have a greater mental capacity than myself.  I strongly
encourage others to select the former option, but I suspect they
won't regardless of my pleading.


	-Michael )Ged(

PS - Greg Chung ---- I really am sorry.
From: diachun@acsu.buffalo.edu (Justin D Diachun)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: From the STatbOy: Regular stat postings?
Date: 27 Jan 93 05:16:24 GMT
Organization: State University of New York at Buffalo/Comp Sci

In article <1993Jan26.195244.8255@coe.montana.edu> osyjm@cs.montana.edu (Jaye Mathisen) writes:
>For the upcoming season, is there any interest in my posting regular stats
>of the games, and the cumulative stats for the players?  
>I've got most of the scripts finished now, so this could be done.

I think it is a good idea.  Probably all that is needed is a full
time-stamped message log, unless any would-be stat crunchers can think
of more that would be useful.  In the past, a few ideas were posted
using formulas that could rank teams by points, and other things.  It
would be important to have this log from every INL game to use.  They
could do similar formulas for all players too, but would certainly
need time-stamps to tell how long each person played during a game, as
well as what planets, etc, they took.

Plus, just think how important this newsgroup would look with the
bandwidth jump.  :-)


Helix

>-- 
> Jaye Mathisen, COE Systems Manager                (406) 994-4780
> 410 Roberts Hall,Dept. of Computer Science
> Montana State University,Bozeman MT 59717	osyjm@cs.montana.edu

-- 
___   ____   ____   ____   ___________________   ____   ____   ____   _
\  \ / \  \ / \  \ / \  \ /      Helix        \ / \  \ / \  \ / \  \ / 
/\  \  /\  \  /\  \  /\      Justin Diachun    \  /\  \  /\  \  /\  \  
  \__\/  \__\/  \__\/  \ diachun@cs.buffalo.edu \/  \__\/  \__\/  \__\/
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: colles@vccnw06.its.rpi.edu (Grey Knight (Shawn Collenburg))
Subject: Re: New Sturgeon Style Server
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 18:16:51 GMT

hendric@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Richard Hendricks) writes:

>tsang@cs.washington.edu (Donald Tsang) writes:


>1) having iggy either take the mods of the closest ship, or an algorithm
>that when iggy gets kills, he automatically selects certain mods...

This would be fun, esp. for people (Who me?) who try and 3rd space scum.

>2) Terminaotrs that come out every so often (either timed or random) and
>seek and destroy the player with the most mods. they could be given
>the same set of mods as their target, too.

I think this is a step towards TwinkTrek. Instead of having to ogg a player
(and ogging a clue(?) player w/ 10 shield upgrades is a TEAM task) they
can just wait for the iggy to blow them away.

>3) have a maximum number of upgrades, based upon the number of kills you have
>spent.  for example, you cannot spend more than 20 kills on mods.  Maybe
>make it so that temporary mods do not count towards this,

Cool idea for a theme night - no more. It would really become an issue
of clue level about which upgrades are best for their value.

>richard hendricks
>hendric@matt.ksu.ksu.edu

Grey Knight

Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: exodus@IASTATE.EDU
Subject: Re: From the CounCILboY:  Your news reps are... [drum roll]
Reply-To: exodus@IASTATE.EDU
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 07:20:13 GMT

In article <1993Jan25.203312.1811@coe.montana.edu>, osyjm@cs.montana.edu (Jaye
Mathisen) writes:
> 
> Danny Yee (ICMP Redirect), and Doug Bellew (Vampyre).  
> 
> Following is the candidate list, and the number of votes received.
> 
> 
> Danny Yee -- 12
> Doug Bellew -- 8
> Sam Shen -- 7
> Scott Draves -- 6
> Leonard Dickens -- 4
> Brian Paulsen -- 4 
> Felix Gallo -- 4
> Andrew Markiel -- 1 (not himself :)
> Eric Lauer -- 1 (not himself :)
> 
> Two votes were received late, after the deadline, for a candidate that
would've
> affected the outcome, but were discarded.  Sorry guys.
> -- 
>  Jaye Mathisen, COE Systems Manager                (406) 994-4780
>  410 Roberts Hall,Dept. of Computer Science
>  Montana State University,Bozeman MT 59717	osyjm@cs.montana.edu




  This is totally a joke. I think a new vote should be called. You
people posted a list of cantidates for us to vote for, even though
some of them didn't want to be elected. Those of us who voted for
them didn't get a chance to vote for somebody else. I didn't keep
the email address to recast my vote, and nobody responded to my
RGN request for it, so my vote was lost. Many others may not have
even realized that their votes were lost because they might not
read RGN every day. INL should have mailed us back saying that
person had dropped out. Looks at the pathetic number of votes! Please
call a 2nd election! Nothing against the cantidates who ended up on
top, but clearly this was all very poorly managed. The cantidates
who fill these positions are, in fact, very important. Please see
to this at once. Thank-you.



						Exodus
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: ahabig@bigbang.astro.indiana.edu (Alec Habig)
Subject: Re: Scattered Pops in INL- I vote NO!
Organization: Indiana University Astrophysics, Bloomington, IN
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 16:07:13 GMT

In article <1k42ua$o1t@agate.berkeley.edu> jmn@crown.berkeley.edu (J. Mark Noworolski) writes:
>In any case everybody is ranting about only one half of the debate....
>
>WHAT about planets popping under you?!?!?!?
>
>Seems to me that with continuous pops it is unpreventable (with a 40 sec
>timer you can prevent it by timing your takes properly). Also, as I mentioned
>earlier, a double take with scouts of an agri (or any planet for that
>matter) would be fraught with uncertainty during the time between drops.

Exactly - it would be fraught with uncertainty.  This is good.  Take a chance,
man, live a little!  It is the foreknowledge of when to do things that kinda
sucks.  

>If yer gonna screw with the pop timing- you're gonna have to change the
>way planets pop in my opinion (so that people don't get screwed with a
>planet popping under them). Don't ask me how.

The other team is just as likely to "get screwed" as you are.  While some might
think it's nice that they can be garunteed a plum if they do something right,
why should everything always fall your way?  I guess this is why I like to play
ASL more than chess.

	Alec
	(Entropy)
From: jb8n+@andrew.cmu.edu (Joseph E. Beck)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Halftime
Date: 26 Jan 93 16:14:42 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.wfNT0GO00Voi9cm3I1
	<1k2hr5$gnh@agate.berkeley.edu>
Organization: Junior, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA


tom@soda.berkeley.edu (Tom Holub) writes:
> In any case, if halftime affects the game as much as its detractors claim,
> it falls firmly in the first category, and shouldn't be configurable
> (under our previous decision).  Perhaps that will change, but I
> doubt it.

Ok, suppose two teams don't just want halves, they want a time out
after each quarter, and a 10 minute break at half (both captains are
football nuts).  Now, currently this is acceptable, and there is no
way to prevent it (short of removing the pause feature).  Now you
claim that if halftime isn't forced, the servers aren't the same.  But
here there are *3* pauses instead of 1, and the halftime hereis
(probably) longer than proposed, yet you have not mentioned this as
being a problem.  Why is this not a problem, but having a non
mandatory halftime is a problem?  

	joe
	Lamb, Leg Of
From: ss72+@andrew.cmu.edu (Sean Christopher Simmons)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Escorting Tips Wanted
Date: 26 Jan 93 14:30:12 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.4fNRSIe00VpJ4uOEpA
	<C1F325.2or.2@cs.cmu.edu>
Organization: Sponsored account, School Of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 25-Jan-93 Re: Escorting Tips
Wanted Robert Hill@norman.VI.RI (1094)

> Actually, this is a very good question.  I guess what spiff said is true,  
> but sometimes you know you are going to escort someone.  What ship do you  
> choose?  I'm not quite sure of the answer, but i'd use a guideline such as  
> this:

> 1)  if you have no choice, use the ship that you are currently in
> 2)  if its a close core world, use a BB
> 3)  if its an enemy front-line planet, use a CA
> 4)  if its deep in enemy space, use the same type of ship as the  
> taker..unless they are in an AS, in which case you use a CA or DD.


	It depends a lot on what ship she's in, where they are, and where she's
going.  If I know that she's going to a deep enemy world, and that she
will wait for me, I like to take an AS, hoping to det a lot of torps and
carve a hole (Power off-tackle).  If We're going to an outside world and
I want to kill the defender and take by force, I'll pick a CA (End Run).
 If the whole team is coming up to clear a planet, I'll take a CA, or
even a BB if there's a lot of time and a lot of defenders (Power Up the
Middle).  If I hope to distract attention, more than to cause damage,
I'll even use a DD (Reverse).  A lot of the time, the most important
thing is just to have someone be there.  If my passenger is way out
ahead, I'll use a SC, just to GET there.

ZZnew guy
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: george@ece.cmu.edu (George Cebulka)
Subject: Re: How to sign up for the Spring INL
Originator: george@taca.ece.cmu.edu
Reply-To: george@ece.cmu.edu (George Cebulka)
Organization: Electrical and Computer Engineering, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 00:40:17 GMT


In article <1k589i$383@agate.berkeley.edu>, tom@soda.berkeley.edu (Tom Holub) writes:
|>From: tom@soda.berkeley.edu (Tom Holub)
|
|		Tom's verbage deleted. (sorry guy)
|

The dreaded scourges of the spaceways, those plowboys from hell, the coiners of
the phrase "YOU CAN DEFEAT A FARMER, BUT YOU CANNOT ERADICATE HIM" (Unless you
play for Side Salad): FLEE will be back. Yhe rest of you scum teams can start to
quake from fear any time now.

		Gunner, A FLEE scum.
From: leonard@mimsy.umd.edu (Leonard Dickens)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Server Bug
Date: 25 Jan 93 23:15:30 GMT
Organization: Deep Thirteen, Gizmonics Institute

Tedd Hadley writes:
>   There's a slight bookkeeping problem with sb docker refueling.
>   Anyone who's played a base before has probably noticed the alarming
>   rate your fuel goes down if a player is docked on you with their
>   shields up...
>   [suggested fix]

Hadley's fix looks OK to me, but it does have the problem that a ship
still cannot generate its own fuel while docked, but MUST take fuel
from the base... which is still against what one would expect, given
that at ALL other times in the game the ship DOES generate its own
fuel.

Here is a fix of hadley's fix, that allows every ship to generate its
own fuel before sucking from any nearby base.  

This fixes the slight weirdness you can see at vsli, where a BB docked
on an SB reduces its fuel by 3 (shield cost) if the SB is lower
numbered on the player list than the BB is.  (The SB get its fuel
limited to maxfuel before the BB draws its needed three, leaving the
SB at the end of the update with 59997 fuel.)

Put it in daemon.c line 668 or so, replacing the old if-then-else-else
structure.

----  chop -----

                /* Add fuel */
		j->p_fuel += 2 * j->p_ship.s_recharge;
                if ((j->p_flags & PFORBIT) &&
                    (planets[j->p_planet].pl_flags & PLFUEL) &&
                    (!(planets[j->p_planet].pl_owner
                        & (j->p_swar | j->p_hostile)))) {
                    j->p_fuel += 6 * j->p_ship.s_recharge;
	        } else if ((j->p_flags & PFDOCK) && 
                           (j->p_fuel < j->p_ship.s_maxfuel) &&
                    	   (players[j->p_docked].p_fuel > SBFUELMIN)) {
                    int fc = MIN(10*j->p_ship.s_recharge,
                                 j->p_ship.s_maxfuel - j->p_fuel);
                    j->p_fuel += fc;
                    players[j->p_docked].p_fuel -= fc;
                    }
                } 

----  chop -----

-Leonard
From: jch+@cs.cmu.edu (Jonathan Hardwick)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: More Questions on the Cutting EDGE
Date: 25 Jan 93 17:44:30 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.C1F7yD.7uq.2
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

leonard@mimsy.umd.edu (Leonard Dickens) writes
> Except for SBs, I see very little reason for anyone to distress except
> to note armies carried.  Remember: your ship is EXPENDABLE!  This is
> another good reason to keep army info in the distress.

Ships are expendable, but there are moments when you don't want to
expend one.  F'rinstance, you're on the wrong end of a 2-on-1
taker-and-escort situation on one of your core planets.  You want help
RIGHT NOW, but you can't afford the 1-2 seconds it'll take to say it,
because in that time the taker will slip in or the escort will blow
you away.  So you pound E whilst trying to stay alive and/or ogg the
taker

Of course, if the team is so bad that they didn't read my messages 30
seconds before saying "3++", "3 and 5 incoming to xxx", etc, then I
generally quit out in disgust shortly after hammering on the E key...

Jonathan H., jch@cs.cmu.edu                    Keeper Of The Netrek Archives
Access for the masses : anonymous FTP to gs69.sp.cs.cmu.edu (128.2.206.167).
If you have AFS, look in /afs/cs.cmu.edu/user/jch/netrek.  If you have WAIS,
use the netrek-ftp database, available on port 6000 of gourd.srv.cs.cmu.edu.
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: exodus@IASTATE.EDU
Subject: Re: From the CoUnciLboY:  Changes in list of nominees...
Reply-To: exodus@IASTATE.EDU
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 06:45:52 GMT



 To what address was it that we had to send our votes to?



Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: jwest@weevil.frc.ri.cmu.edu (Jay West)
Subject: Re: DD's need improvement!
Reply-To: jwest@frc2.frc.ri.cmu.edu (Jay West)
Organization: Field Robotics Center, CMU
Distribution: rec
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 16:58:04 GMT

>>Cruiser;    Phaser Damage: 100  Phaser Cost: 700
>>Battleship: Phaser Damage: 105  Phaser Cost: 1050

>I was expecting to be flamed because BB's phasers are so much better than
>CA's.  The above means I second my original post about the bogosity of

BB's phasers ARE much better than the CA's.  What you fail to take
into account is the RANGE of the phasers.  Will someone who knows the code
well compare damage at equal ranges?

West
HARM
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: colles@vccnw06.its.rpi.edu (Grey Knight (Shawn Collenburg))
Subject: Re: New Sturgeon Style Server
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 18:24:46 GMT

tundra@chester.ksu.ksu.edu (Daniel G. McDaniel) writes:


>In article (Donald Tsang) writes:
>>In article (Shawn Collenburg) writes:
>>>In article (Karl S. Hagen) writes:
>>>>   new sturgeon upgrade server running here at netrek.cis.ksu.edu 2592
>>>
>>>How about the sturgeon player database? It took a lot of effort to
>>>get my current rank.
>>
>>It's just a game, people.  Rank is meaningless.  DI is meaningless.
>      ^^^^^^^^^^^           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>           |      Final someone who understands it all...
>           |
>This statment says it all :)

Here, here. Well, commander is convient to have.

><slaps forehead with palm>
>
>I can't believe this...

Good.

And the search for the humor impaired goes on.
(Come on, you can get Captain there w/ 1 ship. Sheesh.)

Grey Knight
From: echeverr@scf.usc.edu (5150)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Crutches (Was Re: New Sturgeon Style Server)
Date: 20 Jan 1993 22:03:27 -0800
Organization: Will Ogg For Food
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu
Keywords: SCRIMMAGE US!!!!!!!!! NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!

In article <1jkg51INNhai@wyatt.ksu.ksu.edu> tundra@wyatt.ksu.ksu.edu (Daniel G. McDaniel) writes:
>If you learn to play with a crutch you end up needing it... Ugh
>I made the mistake of learning to play on Chaos...

For sure.  I learned to play on calvin back when it had the uncloak-shoot
delay at 0.  It's probably the biggest reason i will probably never dogfight
half-decently; i only needed to cloakscum my kills back then...

5150
of course it was a hoot when people came back from summer vacation...
From: markiel@callisto.pas.rochester.edu (Andrew Markiel)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Server Bug
Date: 25 Jan 93 23:29:11 GMT
Organization: U(r) AstroTheory Group

I think the bug is a little more robust than you think, Tedd. This bug
was noticed a few years ago, but it wasn't really considered important
so nothing ever got done.

The interesting bit is that, if your battleship is docked to the SB
with it's shields up, and the SB has less than 10000 fuel (SBFUELMIN)
then the battleship's fuel will begin to drain away, and when it hits 0
it will keep spiralling down into the negative numbers. Nifty, eh?
Similarly, if the battleship fires, the fuel it uses will not be replaced,
unless it can get it from the SB. We determined all this back when we
discovered the bug that allows you to dock ships onto scouts (was this
fixed in the bronco distribution?)

While I haven't looked at the code, I'm pretty sure that there's some
bug by which a docked ship never generates any fuel, so any fuel it
uses must be replaced from the ship it's docked to. In this case, the
proper fix is to change it so that the docked ship replenishes it's
own fuel. How to actually do this, I have no idea.

Hope this helps,

-Grey Elf With No Name
markiel@callisto.pas.rochester.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: rhodesia@wixer.cactus.org (Felix S. Gallo)
Subject: Communique from the Sunscreamer National Front
Organization: Real/Time Communications
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 01:16:00 GMT


We reject the so-called "decision" which makes a mockery of
the rights of voters everywhere.  That foul cabal, the
"INL Council", will learn not to toy with the likes of us.
Our overwhelming, innumerable constituency will strike like
Rikki-Tikki-Tavi when and where you least expect!  Monstrous
Tom and his evil, mannerless brood shall be cast down into
the pit of ineffable humiliation.  Their hands shall rupture
and palsy during oggs, their bombing will be impotent, limp
and worthless, and their bomb timers shall run askew.  I
curse you, "INL Council"!  Let no man stand under their
loathsome rule -- the masses have voted for the victorious
master, SUNSCREAMER, and we will not countenance this act
of naked aggression!

Join the peace-loving elite forces of the Sunscreamer
National Front!

rear ensign sunscreamer guevara
minister of truth, the SNF
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Felix Sebastian Gallo                              rhodesia@wixer.cactus.org
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Organization: Junior, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 10:59:53 -0500 
From: "Joseph E. Beck" <jb8n+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: DD's need improvement!
	<1993Jan24.123142.63112@cc.usu.edu>

sl7sg@cc.usu.edu writes:
> In article <0fMSn9S00YUo18sWFN@andrew.cmu.edu>, "Joseph E. Beck" <jb8n+@andrew\
> .cmu.edu> writes:
> >> So, obviously, DD's need to be improved to make them viable.  I suggest
> >> 35 point torps.
> > This seems a bit drastic (DD's now have torps almost as good as BB and
> > CA's).  How about 1000 extra fuel?  Or slightly better phasers?  Etc.
> 
>         Uhhh, no.  Let me show you some stats:
(stats deleted)
>         I would say a DD's is no closer to a CA's or BB's torps, than a
> scout...but than again, I may be wrong...   ;)
When I said "now" I meant under the proposed mod of giving them 35
point torps, this clearly makes them closer to CA's than DD's, right
now they're sort of in the middle.

> BTW, I could make a shameless plug, about a server that has evened out all
> damage etc, between each ship, for better variety and
>dogfighting...but I won't.
What do you mean "even out all damage"?  Do you mean all ships should
do the same amount of damage?

	joe
	Lamb, Leg Of