HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: Re: What is needed to start a Mail Order Business?
Date: 24 Jul 92 16:17:43 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

A mailbox?   :^)

Jon





-- 
=============================================================================
| Jon Noring          | noring@netcom.netcom.com | "The dogs bark, but the  |
| JKN International   | IP    : 192.100.81.100   |  caravan moves on."      |
| 1312 Carlton Place  | Phone : (510) 294-8153   | "Pack your lunch, sit in |
| Livermore, CA 94550 | V-Mail: (510) 862-1101   |  the bushes, and watch." |
=============================================================================
"If your annual income today is $50,000, you have the same buying power as
the average coal miner did in 1949, adjusted for taxes and inflation," John
Sestina, nationally recognized Certified Financial Planner;  quoted in 1987.
Xref: sparky misc.entrepreneurs:2342 sci.materials:543
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Wednesday, 22 Jul 1992 05:35:45 CDT
From: <U53644@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs,sci.materials
Subject: Advice needed : How to contain an e-mail defamation campaign

========================================================================

I beg the indulgence of the reader, I know that this is irregular, however....

    I have found myself in an odd situation, and I'm not sure how to deal with
it. A short time ago, I had posted a series of articles in the new group
sci.research.careers. A certain Mr. Toreki took exception to them, and
responded by attributing comments to me that I never made, and which would cast
me in a rather damaging light.

For example : That I had said that most professors in grad school were tyrants,
              That graduate school was an Orwellian experience,
              That one should never be willing to work for a business,
              That one couldn't possibly get a job no matter what, so why
                  bother

All of which is almost the opposite of what I had actually said. Now, I
immediately started getting volumes of fairly obscene hate mail, and found that
I was being given a reputation that would be, to say the least, one that
would not be helpful in my future career. Repeated urgings to the people in
that group to read the posts before commenting on them, and the truthful
statement that I was being credited with statements that I hadn't made seemed
to have no impact. The same rumors were being passed on. The attitude was even
expressed that whether or not I was being misquoted was irrelevant !

The question is : How do I put a stop to this sort of thing ?

       Having interests in research, and working in preperation for private
       sector work as I am (Math/EE (solid state/Commun. Eng)), and partially
       supporting myself with consulting work as I do, I really don't really
       need this kind of rumor spread.

(The comments objected to were a few about the necessity of supplementing
 work in the pure sciences with some in the areas in which one intends to
 apply them, the shortage of available >academic< work for recent grads -
 and which alternative areas one might consider for employment, and similar
 things. Hardly the front page of the Socialist Worker.)

Well, where do I go from here to maintain and repair my reputation (minor as
it is) ? (Best part - this happened as a result of posting job advice for
younger graduate students. No good deed goes unpunished, I guess).

                                           Worriedly yours,

                                               Joseph B. Dunphy
From: abulloch@garnet.berkeley.edu (Anthony Bulloch)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: Re: 7 Anyone need a SECOND INCOME???
Followup-To: misc.entrepreneurs
Date: 31 Jul 1992 17:16:52 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

Chris -

I do wish you hadn't just reprinted (and therefore rebroadcast)
the whole of that news posting. As you said yourself, there was
a lot of hot air there and not much substance (and you were
probably infringing copyright, like the original, anonymous
poster).  I have done quite a lot of research myself into
the MLM area over the last couple of years, and there _are_
one or two excellent opportunities (good companies, good
timing etc.) available, but encouraging these anonymous
bloated postings is not the way to help the unwary find them.
Working with the few good companies in this area is certainly
exciting and entrepreneurial, but in general discussion of
the topic surely belongs over on alt.business.multilevel.

By the way, where is the original poster? Are you there?
Are you going to come out of hiding? Several of us did ask
some straightforward questions...

Anthony Bulloch
abulloch@garnet.berkeley.edu

Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: r2d@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (richard.del monaco)
Subject: Government contracts
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 13:49:39 GMT

I am posting this article on behalf of a relative who is interested in
any information on the process of bidding on and obtaining government
contracts.  He owns a small company which develops customized software,
and he's looking for any type of information which may lead to finding
any level of government work (federal, state, local).  

If anyone can provide a good reference book or other source, I will 
pass it along.  Since I'm not a regular reader of this news group I
would appreciate responses via e-mail if possible.

Thank you.

Richard Del Monaco		rdelmonaco@attmail.att.com
AT&T/Room W1E044		r2d@cbnewsg.cb.att.com
290 Davidson Avenue
Somerset, New Jersey 08875	telephone: 908-805-1714
From: scsd1005@altair.selu.edu
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: Re: ILLEGAL TO OPERATE MULTI-LEVEL WITH PURE MONEY TRANSACTIONS??
Date: 31 Jul 92 15:31:44 -0600
Organization: Southeastern Louisiana University

In article <8BW-7rB@engin.umich.edu>, stealth@engin.umich.edu (Mike Pelletier) writes:
> Not to mention that they also do business in over 50 other countries

   ...    [much fecal matter deleted]
 
> And since you're not aware of it, I should note that the FTC already
> crawled up Amway's rear end with a flashlight a number of years ago
> and Amway is now the standard of legality for multi-level marketing plans.
> 
> That you think that Amway is often presented in an unethical manner is
> only a function of the people who tried to present it to you, not an
> indictment of Amway Inc. or the workability of the marketing plan.
> 
> If you think you can, I recommend that you take a serious look at the
> business after leaving your preconcieved notions about ethics, the shifty
> people you've met, and multi-level-marketing at home.  Then see what you
> think.
> -- 
>       Mike Pelletier       | Administrator of the systems that people tend
> The University of Michigan | to be touchy about -- USENET News, Mail, and IRC.
>   College of Engineering   | My asbestos suit is always close at hand.

Well, you should keep that asbestos suit handy as I cannot think of
anyone who deserves to be flamed more than someone so seriously deficient
in ethical concepts that he would post a defense of [gag, puke, choke]
Amway!

You suggest that preconceived notions about ethics be put aside.  What
you're really saying is "to hell with civilized standards, we'll redefine
ethics to allow for the shady practices that make up Amway's 'marketing'
operations."

You assert that Amway's practices are NOT in a gray area, but then you
admit that the Feds were prompted to crawl "up Amway's rear end with a
flashlight" a number of years ago.  They "crawled" and "crawled" and
searched and searched, AND FOR VERY GOOD REASON.  The fact that Amway
was clever enough to stay "barely" within the bounds of the law, thus
escaping punitive action by the Feds, does NOT render their practices
any less sleazy or any less despicable.

As far as Coke, et al allowing Amway to be a vehicle for moving their
products, that's hardly a vindication of Amway's decency.  All you've
actually shown is that their legal departments recognize that Amway 
has successfully avoided being convicted.

Great philosophy, Mike.  As long as a company can operate within the
bounds of the law, anything goes.  If it ain't illegal, then it must
be ethical and moral.

     ...terry
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: grady@world.std.com (Dick Grady)
Subject: Re: What is needed to start a Mail Order Business?
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 04:09:10 GMT

In article <26490025@hpfcbig.SDE.HP.COM> fritz@hpfcbig.SDE.HP.COM (Gary Fritz (tmp)) writes:
>> For example, last year involvement devices (things that make a recipient do
>> something such as pasteing a stamp on the return mailer) were hot.  This year 
>> they are completely dead.  Customers don't lick, stick, poke or push anymore.
>
>Then why do the big magazine-pushers (Ed McMahon and his ilk) still do it?
>One would assume, with the massive mailings they do, they would be pretty
>careful to stay on top of the latest trends.

In the Publisher's Clearing House promotion, if you are ordering a magazine,
you don't have to do all that lick & stick nonsense.
You only have to lick & stick if you are *not* ordering a magazine.
Perhaps they hope that you'll not follow directions exactly and therefore
be disqualified.
-- 
            Dick Grady               grady@world.std.com
From: abulloch@garnet.berkeley.edu (Anthony Bulloch)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: Re: Anyone need a SECOND INCOME???
Followup-To: misc.entrepreneurs
Date: 30 Jul 1992 09:17:45 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

1. It would have been courteous to sign your name at the bottom
of that long post.

2. It would have been courteous to give at least a token
acknowledgement of the intelligence and professionalism of
the correspondents in this group and mention the nature of
your business, even if you were not in a position to state
the company name outright.

3. Most of the correspondents in this group are well-informed
enough that they do't need hectoring on the basics of multi-
level-marketing.

4. You almost certainly infringed copyright in reproducing
someone else's article without his written and specific
permission.

So -

What is the name of the company you are promoting?

What kind of business does it do?

(No lectures on the wonders of residual income and getting rich,
please.)

Anthony Bulloch

Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: rissel@iscp.bellcore.com (Ron Rissel)
Subject: marketing a compiler
Reply-To: user@machine.domain
Organization: UC Berkeley XRN Design Team
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 12:22:48 GMT

I have a compiler that I wrote that I would like to market if feasible.
Has anyone had any experience in marketing software that they've written?
Do you have any ideas as to how to go about marketing it or where to begin?

Ron
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: burgoyne@highlite.uucp (J. Robert Burgoyne)
Subject: Re: WANTED:  Electronics manufacturers
Organization: Gotham Communications Research
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 10:20:08 GMT

mark@honda.epi (Mark Duening) writes:
: 
: I am in the process of developing a simple electronics device.  
: A prototype version
: will be completed within the next month.  
: If all goes well, I will want to have
: this device produced in large quantities.  
: Any clues as to where to look?  Any
: hints will be appreciated.

Domestically or Abroad? How do you plan to do your marketing? Have you
established your market through research?

Robert
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: serg@cbe.chel.su (Maklyak Sergey Sergeevich)
Subject: Request of businessmans of the Ural (West Siberia)
Reply-To: serg@cbe.chel.su
Organization: Centre of Business Expertise
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 92 21:02:25 +0300

                        CONSULTATION FIRM
                 "CENTRE OF BUSINESS EXPERTISE"
_________________________________________________________________
454000 RUSSIA                    "CENTRE OF BUSINESS EXPERTISE"
G. CHELYABINSK                    BOX: 31, PLEKHANOV Str.
UL. PLEKHANOVA 31,                CHELYABINSK
"CENTR DELOVOY EKSPERTIZY"        RUSSIA
TEL: (3512)332-402,               TEL: (3512)332-402,
           334-252                           334-252
FAX: (3512)601-253                FAX: (3512)601-253

                  Dear Ledyes and Gentlemens!

Who would like make business and friends contacts with the firm
"Centre of business expertise" from Russia ?  And we want to ask
you a little request: would you so kind send to our E-mail address
list of E-mail addresses abroad trading or financial companyes.
We will be very grateful for your helping us.

                   General director Dmitry L.Mudryakov.
From: douglas@tinton.ccur.com (Steve Douglas <douglas>)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: RECRUITER
Date: 28 Jul 92 03:07:45 GMT
Distribution: nj
Organization: Concurrent Computer Corp., Tinton Falls, NJ
Originator: douglas@bach.tinton.ccur.com

Have you ever said,"If only I had a chance"?
Well, here's an opportunity for a career which can offer you unlimited earning 
potential.

The leading division of a major New York Stock Exchange Company is expanding 
in the metropolitan area.

We are looking for-Serious, Ambitious, and Highly Motivated People.

We offer-High Income, Part-Time and Full-Time Positions.

We offer-Management Training for Those Without Experience.

We offer-Rapid Advancement for Experienced Managers, Professionals and Highly 
         Motivated Individuals.

As part of our expansion process, we will be conducting several career
open houses for those seeking - employment, additional income, or a career 
change.

You can learn more about this opportunity by attending a career open house.
  
If you qualify, you'll be a part of our in depth training program.  Through 
personal attention and constant support, you'll be given every opportunity to 
develop your ability to the fullest.

Quite simply, it's a special company for special people.  Now it's up to you.  
Call for your reservation today.  Karyn D. Madison/Exec Recruiter 908-548-7693

*We are an equal opportunity employer. 

-----------------------------DISCLAIMER----------------------------------
This is my husband's account so please don't respond to him via email.
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: ematias@dgp.toronto.edu (Edgar Matias)
Subject: Re: Compact Disc Wholesalers
Organization: CSRI, University of Toronto
Date: 31 Jul 92 19:11:51 GMT


Here's what GRANT CUNNINGHAM thinks:
>So what?  The price of something (it's value to the purchaser) doesn't, AND
>SHOULDN'T, be tied to what it costs to produce the item.  CDs sell for more
>because *they're worth more*, period.  I hate the implication that somehow
>business is "evil" because they sell things for more than they pay.

Well, maybe they are worth more but "worth" is a subjective thing and
businesses live and die by their customers.  AS A CUSTOMER, I do not
appreciate paying more for something that costs less to manufacture, even
if it does perform better than the item it's replacing.  That's the whole
point of progress in consumer electronics: better products for less
money!!  REMEMBER?!?

I am not implying that business is evil for doing this.  All I'm doing
is stating a (little-known) fact and expressing my dissatisfaction.

Edgar
From: mbeck@bbn.com
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: Re: Want to Know About a Fantastic Opportunity?
Date: 22 Jul 1992 17:40:38 GMT
Organization: Bolt Beranek and Newman Inc.
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.89.16.46

In article <92196.22190.J024330@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM>
J024330@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM writes:

>Gee, using the curiosity approach.
>Doesn't give a clue as to what it is.
>Sounds like AMWAY.
>I'm not an AMWAY basher (I'm in it).
>We just need to be a little more creative,
>And a little less deceptive in our approach.

Em, I'm new in this group and I was wondering if you could tell me what AMWAY
is? 

--------
Michael Beck       email: MBECK@BBN.COM or MBECK@VTSSI.VT.EDU
Phone: (617)873-2605  or  873-2383
       Office  2/247      Lab 2/273
From: dye@edison.llumc.edu (Leonard Dye)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: Re: Patent Question
Date: 30 Jul 92 22:27:50 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: LLUMC Radiation Research Lab

In article <4940@gold.gvg.tek.com> johna@psdcae1.gvg.tek.com (John Abt) writes:
>In article <55340@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> warble@vmdb.vet.purdue.edu (Alan Warble) writes:
> 
>>If the idea is just an idea and not an idea about a specific
>>thing (like a new machine) then write it down and take out
>>a copyright on it.
>
>>If it's a patentable idea, there are two types of patents:
>>a design patent and a utility patent. Both need patent attorneys,
>>and both are expensive (design 6-800 dollars, utility $2000)
>

$2000 ? I have over $5000 in my first patent (early 1980). This includes
$500 for patentability search, $1200 for the application, $500 for each
ammendment and $1200 for a personal interview with the patent examiner which
finally convinced them my invention was patentable.

>Huh? I'm named on 12 patents, and have sat through many hours
>of patent counsel - I've never heard of any more than one type
>of patent. Oh, and by the way, a patent attorney is going to charge
>you more than $800 just to sharpen his/her pencil during the first
>meeting.
>

There are two types of patents. The design patent is good for 7 years and
protects the cosmetic design of the invention. The utility patent is good
for 17 years and protects any claims written in the patent. This is why
you should have a good attorney write the patent application. He has the
expereince writing broad claims that will protect variations of the invention.

One thing one should be aware of is a patent is not a guanteed ticket to
success. Industry is not waiting to buy your patents (esp. US industry). You
can invent the best mouse trap in the world and cheapest price ever and the
public may still not buy it. You have to prepare yourself to market the product
yourself.

Leonard Dye
dye@proton.llumc.edu
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs,alt.business.multi-level
From: mcculley@racy.zko.dec.com (Bruce McCulley)
Subject: Re: Patent Question
Reply-To: mcculley@racy.zko.dec.com (Bruce McCulley)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 19:47:41 GMT


In article <1992Jul27.145842.4534@nrao.edu>,
 lmiller@heineken.tuc.nrao.edu (Luther Miller) writes:
 
|> In article <1992Jul25.192507.475@riacs.edu>
	 dschlot@pioneer.arc.nasa.gov (Dave Schlotthauer) writes:
|> >Does anyone know if an idea can be patented?
 
|> I am almost positive that it is entirely possible to patent and _idea_.

I believe it is not possible to patent an *IDEA* (based on my fairly extensive
research into patentability issues for several ideas).  I will try to remember
to review my home reference library so I can post citations to sources here (if
I remember!)...

Thing is, patent protection is intended to protect the value of practical
innovations.  An idea is patentable when it is "reduced to practice" which
means a practical design has been produced.

Note that it is not required that the design actually be built.  In that sense
it is possible to patent an idea, but there needs to be a detailed description 
of the design even if it has not been implemented.  Thus it is not possible to
patent "a machine that flies" but it might be possible to patent "a machine 
with wings shaped such that the Bernoulli effect produced by forward motion
through the air is sufficient to support the weight of the machine above the
ground..." (even if the prototype was still on the drawing boards).


Dave also wrote:
|> >...I called a patent search
|> >company and they sent me some forms to fill out asking what my invention
|> >was with a space for me to draw a diagram of it. I told them it was
|> >still in the idea stage but they said it didn't matter. I haven't even
|> >started putting it together yet. Will they ask for a prototype when
|> >and if I am granted a patent?

No, they'll ask for money before you're granted a patent!

And they'll most probably leave you with no money and no patent.

Such services have a generally bad reputation, which is reportedly well-earned.
Caveat emptor!

--bruce mcculley
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: burgoyne@highlite.uucp (J. Robert Burgoyne)
Subject: Re: Visa/MC fulfillment card reader *LEASE COST*
Organization: Gotham Communications Research
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 04:35:55 GMT

awerman@panix.com (Aaron Werman) writes:
: I am considering getting Visa/MC services from Cherry Payment Systems. The
: deal is:
: 
: 	-They will charge (about) 3.5% of charges, + about $25 a month fixed
: 	fees + $.20 per transaction.
: 
: 	-I am required to lease a card reader (which I won't use since most
: 	of the business is phone or mail order) which goes on a non-cancelable
: 	lease for 48 months at $90 + tax a month.

Gag. The unit costs only about $200 to buy, $500 with a printer. It's not
worth it. You can try the company I use which charges less; they're called
Harbridge Merchant Services.

Keep looking. You will find a better deal. But make sure you've got a 
storefront, at least when you have your interview, and be sure to
minimize your discussion of mail order and phone transactions. You can
make it out as if you travel and do consulting at different sites.

Robert
From: dfavor@logan.tivoli.com (David Favor)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: Re: Visa/MC fulfillment card reader *LEASE COST*
Date: 25 Jul 92 14:34:13 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.024445.13760@panix.com>, awerman@panix.com (Aaron Werman) writes:
|> I am considering getting Visa/MC services from Cherry Payment Systems. The
|> deal is:
|> 
|> 	-They will charge (about) 3.5% of charges, + about $25 a month fixed
|> 	fees + $.20 per transaction.
|> 
|> 	-I am required to lease a card reader (which I won't use since most
|> 	of the business is phone or mail order) which goes on a non-cancelable
|> 	lease for 48 months at $90 + tax a month.
|> 
|> My problem is with the latter. The reader seems to be required as part of the
|> Cherry product (it is leased from a subsidiary). The $4,000+ lease seems 
|> exorbanent, but the value of the credit card service would justify it if there
|> is no other option. If anyone has researched alternatives, I would be interested
|> in hearing about you experiences.
|> 
|> Even if I apply through Cherry, my chances of approval are about 30-40%
|> (according to the salesman) because most of my business is not through direct
|> contact

if you have a credit card that you have held for several years call the
customer service 800 number and ask who you can call to set up your business
to take Visa/MC through their bank. open a commercial account at that bank.
then find the person that actually approves new credit card accounts. see
this person face to face. take a sample of your merchandise and a 5-10 year
business plan. chances are they will perceive you are serious and issue your
credit card priviledges on the spot. this is what happened with my wife.

even if you have to fly to the city where the person approving credit cards
has their office you can certainly afford the air faire out of the $4000+
you would pay for a card reader.
From: daniel@kenext.msk.su (Finogenov Daniel Victorovich)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: WANTED: GERMAN/DEUTSCHE MARKS in Freiburg, I offer roubles. QUICKLY!!!
Date: 28 Jul 92 18:17:49 GMT
Reply-To: daniel@kenext.msk.su
Distribution: eunet
Organization: KENEXT, Ltd

daniel@kenext.msk.su
daniel%kenext.msk.su@relay.ussr.eu.net
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs