From: kane@buast7.bu.edu (Hot Young Star)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: More Evidence That Homosexuality Is A Result of Child Sexual Abuse
Date: 18 Nov 92 16:41:57 GMT
Organization: Astronomy Department, Boston University, Boston, MA, USA

In article <197503@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov>
pdb059@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov (Paul Bartholomew) writes:

>In article <13214@optilink.UUCP>, cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:

>> Previously, I have posted excerpts from two recent scholarly
>> works on child sexual abuse that recognized a connection between
>> child sexual abuse and adult homosexuality.

>I really wish you'd be more careful in your citing of your research. [...]
>The most significant problem is your vague use of terminology--specifically,
>just what is this "connection" you refer to?

Don't you think this vagueness is intentional, Paul?

>Were all homosexuals molested as children?

No evidenced yet posted to that effect. Nor to the effect that homosexual
men were more likely to have been molested as children than heterosexual.

Heck, he can't even say that all *fixated molesters* were molested as
children. Gene Abel showed that a whopping 60% of fixated molesters had
no history of victimization as children.

>Do all children who are molested become homosexual?

Clearly not, so let's jsut ingore that point.  :^)

>The relevant passages were as follows:
>
>From the Everstine's work:
>
>     She might adopt an asexual lifestyle or homosexual lifestyle, as a
>     method of coping with the original incestuous conflict, designed to
>     protect her from the source of trauma in possible future conflicts.

Anyone can see that the motives are different here. There are plenty
of lesbians who will testify that they are lesbians because they are
attracted to other women, not because they are afraid of men and become
lesbian "by default".

>Note a couple of things in the above passage: 1) it appears that they are
>discussing a specific sub-class of molested victims--women who were molested
>by a relative (presumably a father?);  2) no hard numbers are provided as to
>how many women react in this way;  3) the weasel word, "might", tends to
>devalue the point of the paragraph.

Not to mention the other weasel words: "asexual lifestyle or"
					^^^^^^^		  ^^
[...]
>The second source from your research consists of two passages from the work
>by Bagley & King.  The first passage is as follows:
>
>     Boys who had been sexually abused and who as young adults were
>     currently practising homosexuals, had rather poor self-concept
>     in comparison with all other groups, except those who were cur-
>     rently homosexual but who had never been sexually abused as
>     children.
>
>Once again, my reading skills may be deficient, but I don't see where this
>offers any support for your hypothesis.  Basically, all this passage seems
>to say is that homosexuals have low self-esteem.  This is news?  It cer-
>tainly offers no support for a link between homosexuality and child moles-
>tation.

Exactly.

Clayton seemingly refuses to believe that hetersexist peer pressure can
have a deletorious impact on the self-esteem of gay youth, even adults.

Of course it would be hard for someone like him who only gets *positive*
feedback from such pressure, but...

[...]
>In any case, I think I can safely say that your opening sentence, "recognized
>a connection child sexual abuse and adult homosexuality," is simply wrong.
>Based on these excerpts from your own research, you cannot honestly make
>such a claim.

I think about all he can say at this point is that both child abuse (and its
accompanying hysteria) and socially acceptable heterosexism are two separate
factors which lead to low self-esteem in abuse victims and/or gay individuals.
As with any categories, there are bound to be members who overlap, whose
histories are such that they belong to both categories.

To claim that such individuals are completely representative of both categories
is indeed presumptuous.

Brian