HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: venable@faculty.coe.wvu.wvnet.edu (Wallace Venable)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Halloween in England
Date: 29 Sep 92 09:15:38 GMT
Organization: WVU College of Engineering

In article <1992Sep26.082841.18097@rdg.dec.com> cockburn@edieng.enet.dec.com (Craig Cockburn) writes:

>From Frank Delaney's "The Celts", P84

>Samhain, the greatest Celtic festival, marked the beginning of the year,
>celebrated on the night of October 31st, now Hallowe'en. The earth opened,
>the spirits stalked the land. Darkness reigned, godly matings shook the
>ground, a spirit of eeriness prevailed, the night of All Souls.

>------------------------------------------------------------------------------

	In some parts of Mexico, there is a great deal of attention paid to 
the "night of the dead" on October 31.  Some leave food on the graves, 
others spend the night in the cemetary talking to their dead.  Most of 
these people are of "native" or "redindian" descent. i.e. Aztex, Toltec, 
etc.  They didn't get this from British Celts.
From: apm@hpopd.pwd.hp.com (Andrew Merritt)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 10:11:26 GMT
Subject: Re: ALWAYS REMEMBER (was: Re: Guy Fawkes night)
Organization: Hewlett-Packard ISG-SBU-PWD, UK.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british

nikolay@husc10.harvard.edu (Philip Nikolayev) enquires:

>There's a poem (song?) about the old saboteur, which begins:
>'Always remember the 5th of November...' Does anyone remember
>the rest of it, or know any details about it?

----------
My failing synapses supply the following:

Remember, remember the Fifth of November,
Gunpowder, treason and plot,
I see no reason why gunpowder treason 
Should ever be forgot

I am not certain of the punctuation of the second line; is it 'gunpowder
treason', as the third line would suggest, or 'gunpowder, treason' as
written?  It also feels as though there should be more between the second
and third lines.

Andrew
From: ray@philmtl.philips.ca (Ray Dunn)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: bad teeth (was: pardon etc.)
Date: 27 Sep 92 17:05:18 GMT
Organization: On the Brew.

In referenced article, pjs@euclid.jpl.nasa.gov writes:
>....When I got
>here and went to a dentist she was shocked by the NHS work; I went
>through several visits of corrective work after which my teeth have
>been just fine.  She discovered while replacing one filling that the
>NHS dentist had put base on top of amalgam instead of the other way
>around.

Let me guess - she persuaded you to replace all those nasty amalgum fillings
that were poisoning your body with mercury!

As a counter example, I still have sound NHS amalgum fillings from over
twenty years ago.  I compare this with composite fillings which I seem to
have to have replaced every couple of years now.
-- 
Ray Dunn at home    |    ray@philmtl.philips.ca    |    (514) 630 3749
From: jackson@soldev.tti.com (Dick Jackson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Abuse A Brit (was Re: Pardon my ignorance
Date: 1 Oct 92 15:15:15 GMT
Organization: Transaction Technology Inc.

In article <1a9m53INNee9@grapevine.EBay.Sun.COM> martin.baines@uk.sun.com writes:
>In article 4500@bnr.uk, agc@bmdhh298.bnr.ca (Alan Carter) writes:
>>Can anyone think of a derogatory term used by other nations (that the
>>British can understand to be insulted by it), to refer to the British
>>(or in my case the English)?
>
>Pommy Bastard

It sounds like an insult, I must admit, but it is clear to me that it is
a term of endearment in the Oz context.

I too, until this morning, agreed with the poster who said that it is
impossible to insult an Englishman. However Sue Miller's post gave me
a shock. Imagine being called "German"!!!

Dick Jackson (hope I got the attributions right)
From: dsbeck@athena.mit.edu (Douglas S Beck)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Know someone at Triumph or Norton???
Keywords: motorcycle Triumph Norton
Date: 4 Oct 92 16:49:55 GMT
Article-I.D.: athena.1992Oct4.164955.17874
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

I am a PhD candidate at MIT.  I am working on a project, designing a regenerated
gas-turbine engine for a motorcycle application.  I am trying to find which
motorcycle companies are interested in this research.  If you know someone at
Norton, Triumph, or another British motorcycle company, I would appreciate you
sending me that person's address, telephone number, or e-mail address.  Thank you.

Doug Beck

Douglas S Beck
MIT Room 7-042
77 Massachusetts Avenue
Cambridge MA 02139
USA

office telephone: +617 253 3555
home telephone (with answering machine): +617 494 1825
e-mail: dsbeck@athena.mit.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: chem91@Elroy.UH.EDU ("Bill Harrison (713)-743-2789")
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Free Trade (was Re: Currency Problems)
Date: 1 Oct 92 15:02:10 GMT
Article-I.D.: menudo.1992Oct1.150210.2340
Reply-To: chem91@Elroy.UH.EDU
Organization: University of Houston

[stuff deleted]
>Current (excuse the pun) trends in electricity production in the UK
>lead me to conclude that putting the industry in private hands is not
>a good idea either. Long-term national interests are being ignored for
                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>the sake of short-term profits.
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>		Jim

Exactly... That's the whole crux of the matter. If "things work out" then we're
all better off(?) and fairly happy. If they don't, then tough sh*t and the
country goes down the tubes... Is it worth tasking the risk in the "national
interest", paying back political allies, "pure" idealogy, stomping the miners,
etc. etc...?? Still, that's what the people apparently voted for (sigh). 

Bill
+ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\               /~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Bill Harrison,            \             /       "Be as radical as... |
| University of Houston, TX  >-----------<         reality itself"     |
| CHEM91@JETSON.BITNET      /             \                V. I. Lenin |
+ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~/               \~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,rec.arts.books
From: nadel@attatash.aero.org (Miriam Nadel)
Subject: Re: Enforced Shakespeare?
Organization: /usr/lib/news/organization
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 22:20:44 GMT


When I was in high school, our annual Shakespeare was accompanied by
recordings of the plays (Julius Caesar in 10th grade, MacBeth in 11th,
Hamlet in 12th).

One other thing we had to do which is a neat way to see if you understand
it was to write translations in modern English of various sections.  We
also had to memorize speeches (of our own choosing, but everyone tends
to choose the same few.)

Miriam Nadel
From: livesey@solntze.esd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Currency Problems
Date: 1 Oct 92 01:13:32 GMT
Organization: sgi

In article <1992Sep30.082034.25772@dcs.qmw.ac.uk>, mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach) writes:
|> From: streater@unixjr.SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Tim Streater)
|> >P.Smee@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee) writes:
|> >>
|> >>(We're even importing COAL, for heaven's sake.  Even after the
|> >>devaluation, the government is planning to go ahead with the closure of
|> >>another bunch of British coal pits, and the power companies are
|> >>
|> >Certainly it should be imported given how much cheaper imported coal is. That
|> >will reduce the cost of energy to the consumer and to industry, which will
|> >improve people's standard of living (a bit) and make British industry more
|> >competitive. Isn't this a Good Thing?
|> 
|> Typical loony right thinking. The Thatcher/Major years have
|> been marked by various industries being closed down, blithely
|> dismissed with "it doesn't matter, imports are cheaper, so
|> we'll be better off". 

The decline of the Coal industry was well under way long before
Mrs Thatcher was ever heard from, but it was a carefully concealed
decline.   Because a lot of British coal is underground, and
a lot of foreign coal is not, foreign coal tends to be cheaper.

Once that is the case, you have, essentially, two choices:

   1.	Import some foreign coal and abolish some coal jobs.

   2.	Protect the domestic industry with various devices:
	subsidies, tarrif barriers, import quotas, etc.

Successive British governments tended to choose the second,
partly because coal jobs were allowed to become a hot-button 
with the electorate, and partly because historically, coal
tended to involve not just jobs, but entire social structures.

However, all this did was to put off the evil day.   A miner
whose job has been kept on artificial life-support by means 
of protectionism does not become any more productive.  In
fact, as a side effect of protectionism, the Coal Industry
as a whole became ever less profitable and ever more dependent
on Government handouts, and as a result, could not make the
kinds of investment in automation and safety that more
profitable foreign competitors could.   When we're talking
about the "social cost" of closing pits, we should not forget
the horrifying disasters that no longer happened once those
ancient pits were closed.

Which leads to an interesting question.   Why do leftists
have this strange relationship with coal?   What's so great
about condemning yet another generation of other people's
children to a lifetime in a dirty and dangerous environment,
where they don't even have the satisfaction of working for
an efficient and profitable industry.

Oh, wait.   I think I remember the answer.  It's because
jobs in service industries aren't "real" while jobs in
mining are.   Wasn't that it?

jon.
From: martin.baines@uk.sun.com (Martin Baines - Sun UK - SE Manager Cambridge)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Enforced Shakespeare?
Date: 30 Sep 92 12:01:37 GMT
Reply-To: martin.baines@uk.sun.com
Organization: Sun Microsystems Ltd
NNTP-Posting-Host: bottomdog.uk.sun.com

In article 4550@epas.toronto.edu, sfysh@epas.utoronto.ca (Stephanie Moskal Fysh) writes:
>In article <1992Sep29.062354.18381@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> baker@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Andrew Baker) writes:
>>In article <1992Sep29.112614.3849@darwin.ntu.edu.au> salter_duke@darwin.ntu.edu.au writes:
>>>I've just read in my "Grauniad Weekly" that all British school-children
>>>are going to have a compulsory test on a Shakespeare play at the age of 14.
>>>
>>>Is this really true, or is it just a pinko-liberal rumour spread by the
>>>"Gradiron" to convince the rest of the world that the Tories have gone
>>>stark staring bonkers?
>>
>>Why is this bonkers?  It sounds like an excellent idea (although it might
>>be better to require more than one play).
>
>It's bonkers because Shakespeare's English is now 375 or so years old.
>Why should we be expecting 14-year-olds to comprehend it?  It's no
>wonder so many people dislike reading, and never go to the theatre.
>Personally, I'd be quite happy to see Shakespeare completely taken out
>of high school curricula, except for advanced (special) classes and -
>perhaps - university-qualification level senior classes.

Personal view:
Shakespeare as taught in school is awful (or was in the '70s when
I was there). It concentrates on treating his works as dry pieces
of text and examining them to death. It almost complete ignores
them as pieces of drama. I discovered my liking for Shakespeare
aged about 12 by being taken to see good performances of
the plays. When we started to study them at school (age 14)
I was bored rigid: I just couldn't relate the dry way the
plays were presented to the living works I knew. I guess
it also didn't help that my english teacher and I had completely
opposing views of Hamlet's character and used to argue
continually.

In my ideal school, Shakespeare would be presented through
*performance* (e.g. the excellent recent film of Henry V,
Zefferelli's (sp?) Romeo and Julliet, and as many real
live theatre performances as possible). Give Shakespeare
to the drama department, and keep the English teachers'
destructive hands off!

Martin

---
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"You might say that, but I couldn't possibly comment"

Martin Baines, Sales Support Manager,
Sun Microsystems Ltd, 306 Science Park, Cambridge, CB4 4WG, UK
Phone: +44 223 420421                 Fax: +44 223 420257
JANET:     Martin.Baines@uk.co.sun    Other UK:  Martin.Baines@sun.co.uk
Internet:  Martin.Baines@UK.sun.com
X.400:     g=martin s=baines prmd=sunir admd=mci c=us
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,soc.culture.celtic
From: annius@sif.research.ptt.nl (Annius Groenink)
Subject: Re: Getting some intelligent discussion going.
Organization: PTT Research
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 09:10:48 GMT


>In article <Bv6KMr.45I@dunaad.co.uk>, ah@dunaad.co.uk (Alan Hunter) writes...
>>In article <1992Sep25.204030.3346@news.clarkson.edu>
>>walker@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Graham Walker, 227 West Old Main,268-3847,)
>>writes: 
>>>From article <44887@skye.dcs.ed.ac.uk>, by gsut@dcs.ed.ac.uk
>>(Giles Sutherland): 
>>>> Anyone out interested in a soc.culture.scottish newsgroup, or dare I
>>>> say discussion forum? >> 
>> 
>>>What is wrong with discussing these topics in this news group? 
>> 

And we'll have soc.culture.english for people who live below
Watford Junction...
-- 
Annius Victor Groenink-- undergraduate student Mathematics and Computer Science
at the university of Utrecht, Netherland.  Working at PTT Research Leidschendam
for Sept-Dec. 1992. Laan van Borgele 24, 7415 DJ Deventer, phone +31 5700 29396
or +31 70 33 25445;   e-mail A.V.Groenink@research.ptt.nl or avgroeni@cs.ruu.nl
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: david@postman.gr.osf.org (David George)
Subject: Re: Currency Problems
Organization: OSF RI Grenoble
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 12:38:45 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.090555.5483@nuscc.nus.sg>, hiscrp@nuscc.nus.sg (C R Pennell) writes:

> Six years ago (6 YEARS) the
|> ability to open the car boot (trunk for US readers) from INSIDE the car
|> was standard on the cheapest SUZUKI on the market. There wasn't a car
|> made in Europe below the mid-luxury range which had that device.

On my VW Beetle (ran of the production line at Wolfsburg, Germany in November
1970) it was possible to open both the Boot and the Petrol Cover from inside
the car.  Looks like those Japs knew a good European idea when they saw it.

David.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: riaedwards@halls1.cc.monash.edu.au (AUDREY EDWARDS)
Subject: Re: Abuse A Brit (was Re: Pardon my ignorance and such)
Organization: Halls of Residence, Monash University 
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 05:21:52 GMT

In article <1992Sep28.211359.19028@udel.edu> slking%epx.cis.umn.edu (Simon King) writes:
>From: slking%epx.cis.umn.edu (Simon King)
>Subject: Re: Abuse A Brit (was Re: Pardon my ignorance and such)
>Date: 28 Sep 92 21:13:59 GMT

>In article <1992Sep28.181734.4500@bnr.uk>, agc@bmdhh298.bnr.ca (Alan Carter) writes:
>> 
>> In article <TORKEL.92Sep28180332@bast.sics.se>, torkel@sics.se (Torkel Franzen) writes:
>> |> In article <6250083@hpopd.pwd.hp.com> ian@hpopd.pwd.hp.com (Ian Watson) writes:
>> |>                                   
>> |>>I've been hauled up once before for using this term ["Jap"], and I still
>> |>>don't see why.  To me, it's the equivalent to 'Brit', which I don't
>> |>>find in the least offensive.
>> |> 
>> |>     ...In the case of "Jap" it has emerged in soc.culture.japan that some
>> |> Japanese at least consider it highly offensive... 
>> 
>> Can anyone think of a derogatory term used by other nations (that the
>> British can understand to be insulted by it), to refer to the British
>> (or in my case the English)?
>> 
>> I don't mean things like 'Limey' or (from a Scot) 'Englishman' :-)
>> 
>>    Alan


>> >An ironic rejoinder to my previous post:>the Germans have been known to 
call us "Inseln-Affen" = island apes.>Whether this origionally referred to 
our deportment, or to our politcal system >and economy, or our football 
fans, I know not.

>Why do you want this information ????
>yours inquisitively,
>Simon

The expression "bloody pom" used by the less endearing of the locals around 
here springs to mind!! 

Rather inapproriate, as I understand POM refers to 
'Prisoner Of Mother england' and thus to some of the ancestors of those 
Aussies who use the expression!! 

Audrey.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: sp@osf.org (Simon Patience)
Subject: Re: Abuse A Brit (was Re: Pardon my ignorance and such)
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 11:44:04 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.110241.7292@cas.org>, jac54@cas.org () writes:
> 	Incidentally, is there any record of "Sassenach (sing. or pl.?)
> 	being used as a term of approbation.

Constantly, it is never taken as one however.

Simon.

-- 
  Simon Patience
  Open Software Foundation			Phone: +33-76-63-48-72
  Research Institute				FAX:   +33-76-51-05-32
  2 Avenue De Vignate				Email: sp@gr.osf.org
  38610 Gieres, France				       uunet!gr.osf.org!sp
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: livesey@solntze.esd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)
Subject: Re: London Penpal
Organization: sgi
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 92 04:22:32 GMT

In article <1992Oct4.131537.9193@vax.oxford.ac.uk>, reese@vax.oxford.ac.uk writes:
|> In article <1992Oct1.130020.20@newton.hartwick.edu>, wendtr@newton.hartwick.edu writes:
|> > 
|> >  I just got accepted into the London Semester at London Polytechnic through
|>                                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
|> > Beaver College. I will be in London from early January to late June (possibly
|>   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
|> > later). It would be great to hear from some people in that area, and maybe
|> > start a penpal thing going. Please respond or e- mail me at 
|> > Wendtr@Hartwick.edu. I will be eternally grateful.
|> > 
|> 
|> What do these things mean? I don't recognise anything here ...

At a guess, it's an American College offering a semester of study
in the buildings of a British College out of term time.   There 
are ads for such things from time to time.    I've often been 
tempted to try it myself as a bizarre and twisted kind of holiday.

I think that some candidate for President in 1988 (was it Pat
Robertson?) boasted of having gone to Oxford and they dug up
that he'd actually spent six weeks there one Summer.

jon.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: livesey@solntze.esd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)
Subject: Re: Currency Problems
Organization: sgi
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 92 03:42:16 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.083433.12348@dcs.qmw.ac.uk>, mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach) writes:
|> From: livesey@solntze.esd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)
|> >National security?   Jeepers, kid, we're talking about using
|> >foreign coal when it's cheap, not digging up the British stuff
|> >and tossing it into the sea.
|> >
|> >If you really think that British coal is so wonderful, then
|> >leave the stuff in the ground.   It's not going to go bad, and
|> >if the Victorians could get at it with their technology, I'm
|> >sure our grandchildren will be able to.
|> 
|> Unfortunately it is not as simple as this. It has been made
|> quite clear that if mines are not maintained they flood or are
|> damaged in other ways that make them unuseable.

Then close them and maintain them.   Like I say, this isn't
rocket science.

|> 
|> You also seem, like many free marketeers, to be ignoring the
|> time drag factor. If it once again became beneficial or
|> necessary to use British coal, a coal industry could not be
|> rebuilt from scratch.

We're not talking about closing down the whole industry.  We're
talking about closing enough unprofitable mines that the average
of what's left is competitive.   There are small coal industries
in the world.

Besides, you are talking as though the coal industry *is* mines.
There's a lot more to it that that: mining equipment, safety
equipment, processing equipment, electrical and mechanical supply,
haulage and conveyor equipment.   That stuff didn't become less
efficient and profitable overnight just because a few mines
reached the end of their useful life.   In fact, with the
devaluation, that other stuff should be prime candidates for
export sales.   Why stuff your best engineering products down
clapped out mineshafts when you could be making export sales 
all over the world?

jon.
From: jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk (JHenderson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Enforced Shakespeare?
Date: 30 Sep 92 14:14:43 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

In article <CC.92Sep30142449@roag.dcs.ed.ac.uk> cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Chris Cooke) writes:
=>In article <26413@castle.ed.ac.uk> jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk (JHenderson) writes:
=>   =>In article <1992Sep29.070708.11757@rdg.dec.com> cockburn@edieng.enet.dec.com (Craig Cockburn) writes:
=>   =>>I saw this year's exam papers in Scotland, and there was Shakespeare,
=>   =>>but no Robert Burns, probably the world's best known poet.
=>
=>   Best known, possibly. Most over-rated, certainly.
=>
=>Suffer at school, did we?

Naah. But I had a crippling hangover after the last Burns Night Supper I
went to :)



-- 
=======Jeremy Henderson========jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk===============
Newsgroups: uk.politics,soc.culture.british
From: livesey@solntze.esd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)
Subject: Re: Government discovers new censorship method
Organization: sgi
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 92 04:18:40 GMT

In article <BvI4rM.1uC@newcastle.ac.uk>, w.p.coyne@newcastle.ac.uk writes:
|> 
|>   In recent years the Government has tried to use the courts to keep 
|> things secret, but this has not always worked.   They are maybe now
|> adopting a different approach - call it by a different name so
|> nobody realises what it is.
|> 
|>    The thing I am referring to is the "Treaty on European Union" which
|> the Gov and media seem to be reluctant to use, instead they say the
|> "Maastricht Treaty".

Somebody get this boy a Valium.   Look, *everyone* calls it
"Maastricht".

And, um, so what, anyway?

jon.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: sue@netcom.com (Sue Miller)
Subject: Accents (was Re: Abuse a Brit)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 16:13:31 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

>  Studious readers of Mr Fodor's guides will have been warned
>  that the term "Britisher" is considered mildly abusive in
>  Britain.  I would give bonus points to anybody using it for
>  at least getting on the right side of the equator.  I've
>  been identified as an Australian, a New Zealander and even a
>  South Efriken.
>  
>  Alec Chambers.


Yes, but have you been thus misidentified by a fellow Englishman?
Didn't I have a laugh when this happened to my SO!  He was most
disgruntled.  

Also, one American asked him if were German.  That was even funnier.  

David Brooks has mentioned that Brits that have moved to the US obtain
a "mid-Atlantic" accent.  I think this only happens if they
move to the mid-Atlantic.  :-)

Newsgroups: soc.culture.british