HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: masuda@fcs280b.ncifcrf.gov (Michiaki Masuda)
Subject: Re: Not a Myth at All
Organization: Frederick Cancer Research and Development Center
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 20:58:49 GMT

In article <1993Jan8.212916.6558@island.COM> fester@island.COM (Mike Fester) writes:
>In article <C0Hy5J.K80@ncifcrf.gov> masuda@fcs280b.ncifcrf.gov (Michiaki Masuda) writes:
>>In article <1993Jan7.160939.1571@island.COM> fester@island.COM (Mike Fester) writes:

>>   I'm afraid that you keep missing the point. It is not a matter of taking
>>an exam. It is a matter of benefit that you could get from a command of
>>language.

>If that is the point, they why do you try to state that the TOEFL is racist?

   When did I? I am trying to state that discrimination based on insufficient
command of Japanese language is as non-racist as TOEFL.

>>I am claiming that if you have the better command of Japanese, chances are
>>higher that you could deal with the shopowner who is reluctant to deal with
>>a customer who cannot communicate in Japanese.

>Then please address the issue; if there is "No foreigners" sign, how does a
>Japanese shopkeeper even know whether there is going to be a language problem.
>It's racist, pure and simple.

  You have already switched the issue in response to Maiko-san's posting.
As I understand it, she stated that if an unfavorable behavior of some
foreigners gave Japanese an excuse to post "No foreingers" signs, foreingers'
learning Japanese (for better communication) and good behavior should be
helpful for not giving an excuse and to make the survival easier.
Instead of agreeing to this statement, you started to argue that Japanese 
shopowners should not discriminate gaijin customers based on even their
command of Japanese as if you had been trying to say this is also racism.
That's why I asked if you thought that TOEFL is a racist exam. 

>>>>  BTW, what would you think about the "irezumi okotowari" (No tattooed person
>>>>allowed) policy that you might have seen just below "gaijin okotowari"?
.....
>What, if anything, does it have to do with racism? Unless you mean there may
>be a "race" of tattoed people somewhere.

  "Some gaijin caused trouble at the bar." -> "Gaijin cause trouble." ->
"Gaijin okotowari."

  "Some people with irezumi caused trouble at the bar." -> "People with
irezumi cause trouble." -> "Irezumi okotowari."

 These two mental processes look analogous.

>>  BTW, just to clear my thought, why Afro-Ameircans were discriminated against
>>in the US?

>It's called racism.

  Then, what did (do) Afro-Americans have that made (or still makes?) them 
suffer from racism?

>>>>>Disclaimer - These opinions are not so much opinions, as pearls of wisdom. Any-
>>>>>one disagreeing is obviously either a) a snivelling, whining, mentally-
>>>>>deficient, weak-willed, inconsequential, namby-pamby tool of some vague but
>>>>>conveniently defined conspiracy, or b) my wife.

>>>>Or c)

>>>Nope. It's a binary system.

>>  I didn't know that you wanted to make me your wife so desperately...

>I don't. You're a type 'a'.

   I'd rather have chosen "a" than "b" from this "kyuu-kyoku no sentaku"
anyway.

--Michiaki
From: fester@island.COM (Mike Fester)
Subject: Re: Recommend History Books/Authors?
Organization: /usr/local/rn/organization
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 16:18:02 GMT

In article <jwb.726704502@capek.rdt.monash.edu.au> jwb@capek.rdt.monash.edu.au (Jim Breen) writes:
>keis@psy.uwa.oz.au (Keis Ohtsuka) writes:
>
>>Japanese obviously had a foresight to learn baseball from Americans
>>before they got bogged down in the Civil War.  I can't imagine
>>Japan without baseball.
>
>I was under the impression that baseball was a post-war (dainijitaisen)
>arrival. Certainly I can't imagine it being tolerated in the 1930s.
>Has anyone firmer dates on this?

Baseball has been in Japan since well before 1900. American college teams used
to go over there and play the Japanese teams. More about it in "You gotta have
Wa". Supposedly taken up by the Japanese around 1860.

During the '30s, the Japanese used only the Japanese words for 'out', 'strike',
etc, and discouraged base-stealing as a dishonorable Western trick.

Mike
-- 
Disclaimer - These opinions are not so much opinions, as pearls of wisdom. Any-
one disagreeing is obviously either a) a snivelling, whining, mentally-
deficient, weak-willed, inconsequential, namby-pamby tool of some vague but
conveniently defined conspiracy, or b) my wife.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
From: jwb@capek.rdt.monash.edu.au (Jim Breen)
Subject: Re: Recommend History Books/Authors?
Organization: Monash University, Melb., Australia.
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 00:12:55 GMT

fester@island.COM (Mike Fester) writes:

>In article <jwb.726448138@capek.rdt.monash.edu.au> jwb@capek.rdt.monash.edu.au (Jim Breen) writes:
>>Japan-was-closed-but-brave-Commodore-Perry-arrived-and-opened-it line.
>>In fact many countries had been sending ships for about 30 years before,
>>as well as messages and entreaties via Nagasaki. Perry's finally 
>>successful visit was by no means the first from the US. The reason
>>the US succeeded was that no-one else had the arrogance to turn up
>>with a complete fleet and demand entrance at gun-point.

>So your disgust is that Perry did it right? Remember, as this DID result in a
>long span of revolution against the shogunate, which proved ineffectual at
>keeping out the barbarians. 

There *is* an element of disgust in my feelings about Perry's activities
as there is about a lot of 19th C colonial and imperial activities. [For
the last week I have had a Japanese house guest (a professor in Germany), 
and he commented that in his view, the activities of Britain, America, etc. 
in the 19th century gave the Japanese ruling elite both role models and 
moral justification for what they attempted in Manchuria, Korea, China, etc.]

The forced opening of Japan is really on par with Britain's virtual annexation
of India, and largely stemmed from the same overwhelming attitude of 
racial superiority. An equally nasty aspect of Perry's action was the way
commercial interests with an eye to profitable trade pressured the US
adminstration into sending a sizeable naval squadron. According to Storry,
a certain Aaron Palmer was prominent in this. The churches also demanded
help in getting access to all those nice heathens who were being unjustly
denied their ministrations. Add to this the 19th C US philosophy of
"manifest destiny", which is a mealy-mouthed way of saying that the white
race rules, and the Shogunate had to go.

>And how are we to be impressed that these other nations had been trying for
>years, yet failed?

Well at least they hadn't tried outright force-of arms (the Brits were
a bit squeamish about doing so without at least a token provocation.) The
Russians eventually decided on a king hit too, but missed out by being too 
late. Admiral Putyatin's squadron turned up after Perry's.

BTW, I am not impressed with ex post arguments that the Shogunate was a 
*bad thing*, and so Perry was justified because it initiated events that 
led to a major social revolution (or two). I may be an old-fashioned liberal,
but I believe in people being allowed to sort out things in their own way and
time. 

-- 
Jim Breen                           JIS:$B%8%`!!%V%j!<%s(J
Department of Robotics & Digital Technology. Monash University. 
PO Box 197 Caulfield East VIC 3145 Australia (ph) +61 3 573 2552 
(fax) +61 3 573 2345  AARNet/Internet:jwb@capek.rdt.monash.edu.au
From: RSAYLC@rohvm1.rohmhaas.com (Larry E. Cravetz)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: FLASH NEWS!!
Date: 7 Jan 93 16:57:59 GMT
 <1993Jan6.190759.19498@Csli.Stanford.EDU>
 <1993Jan7.035757.19162@omrongw.wg.omron.co.jp>
Organization: Rohm and Haas Company


I don't know about other news reports, but the all-news radio station I listen
to on my way to work discussed this topic for about 5 minutes (a relatively
long report for them), and were in complete agreement with the facts of the
matter, as presented here... Their audience is numbered in the millions, as
their signal reaches from Philadelphia almost to Baltimore and New York!
From: jcliu@four-lab4.Berkeley.EDU (James C. Liu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: Offered: GIFs of Naked Rie Miyazawa
Date: 11 Jan 1993 04:38:10 GMT
Organization: UC Berkeley Dept. of Nuclear Engineering
NNTP-Posting-Host: four-lab4.berkeley.edu

In article <1993Jan11.033547.25364@mtu.edu> barrera@mtu.edu (Barrera) writes:

  >Talking about Rie is appropriate for this group. Talking about exchanging
  >nude pictures of Rie or anyone else belongs in other newsgroups. I can't
  >prevent you from doing it here nor will I try, but I would think people knew
  >better...

HEY.  Yo!  Chotto Matte!  Before we start ragging and shooting flames
on what's politically correct to post, and whether someone should
"know better...,"  IMHO, Mr. Turley's offer of volunteering to relay
files to other net readers is a real service.  From my own experience
with just the Moritaka Chisato GIFs, I can assure you, Barrera-san,
you're in the minority opinion.  I received so many requests for the
pictures that I finally had to post them onto a server.  But of course,
my GIFs were 'clothed' so they weren't going to get canned the minute
they got uploaded.  The Rie-chan GIFs...well...

Let's just say that there are lots of sabishii net dudes
out there who don't mind a tastefully photographed picture of a pretty
human being (albeit in the birthday suit.) :-)  IMHO, it's entirely
appropriate to post a single note to inform the s.c.j group.  Sure,
there are the gals out there and the PC net-guys who might be offended,
but this is freedom of expression.  And who pays for the bandwidth
anyway?  The T1 links are one 24 hours a day, if they aren't used 100%
then the bandwidth just goes to waste.

Turley-san, Ganbatte!

Jaa, James
=======================================================================
James C. Liu |    KARAOKE Addict!     Karaoke: You're the STAR!!!!    |
             |    Wanna go? Need someone who sings worse than you do? |
             |    Know about a cool karaoke bar? send e-mail          |
=======================================================================
From: burress@twics.co.jp (Tim Burress)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: Teaching English in Japan - GEOS Corp.?
Date: 7 Jan 93 20:08:42 GMT
Organization: TWICS, Tokyo, Japan

In article <1993Jan4.134249.22377@bmerh85.bnr.ca>, news@bmerh85.bnr.ca (Usenet News) writes:
> [Questions about GEOS language school deleted]
> I'm very interested in getting to Japan somehow for a 1-2 year stay
> and teaching English seems to be the easiest way! :-)

It's impossible to say for certain, of course, but chances are pretty good that
you'd get a significantly better deal if you came over and started hunting.  
Look at it this way:  if a school is recruiting teachers over there, it can only
mean one of two things:  either the demand is so strong that they can't find
teachers with a North American accent in Japan, OR the contracts they're
offering in Canada wouldn't be competitive here.  Either way you're better off
coming on your own, unless you need to have money immediately or you don't want
to risk it.

If you're a Canadian citizen, investigate the possibility of a working-holiday
visa.  That will allow you to come here and work/travel for six months, with the
option of renewing it again.  And if you find a good full-time job while you're
here, it shouldn't be that hard to exchange it for a standard working visa.

Naturally, conditions change, and I've been out of that loop for almost three
years now, so this is the kind of advice you should take at your own risk!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: What is culture? (was: Brainwashied
From: Peter.Weekes@bbs.actrix.gen.nz
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 05:42:54 GMT
Organization: Actrix Information Exchange

In article <7568@bigbird.hri.com.hri.com> blamb@hri.com (Bill Lambert) writes:

Features all societies have in common: 

> 	1) An explanation for "Where did we come from?"
> 	2) A wish for a better life for themselves and
> 	descendents.
> 	3) A recipe to achieve 2) above.
> 	4) An accepted notion of social correctness.
> 	5) An accepted notion of what constitutes
> 	public safety and security and how to maintain it.
> 	6) A definition of what constitutes a family unit,
> 	an the member's reponsibilities within that family unit.
> 	7) An commonly accepted attitude about relationships
> 	to other cultures or peoples.
> 
> (others, I suppose...)

-- 
Peter Weekes    Box 7163             
     \       Wellington South       
     /         New Zealand         Peter.Weekes@bbs.actrix.gen.nz      
   /
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
From: hiraga@Csli.Stanford.EDU (Yuzuru Hiraga)
Subject: FLASH NEWS!!
Organization: Stanford University CSLI
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 12:16:48 GMT


JUST HEARD: from a friend.

The bride of the Crown Prince (Hironomiya) is decided to be Masako Kowada.
Miss Kowada currently works as a bureaucrat in the Foreign Ministery
(where her father is the vice-minister), and has long been rumored
as the number-one candidate.

Details later.

-YH
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
From: lucee@madoka.its.rpi.edu (Scanner)
Subject: Re: Recipe for Okonomiyaki?
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 21:38:30 GMT

ee52fbc@sdcc15.ucsd.edu (Maiko Covington) writes:
>	Hello.... I am hungrily wondering if anyone out there has a
>recipe for how to make okonomiyaki at home, from standard
>ingredients (i.e. no premade 'instant' stuff)? I would be VERY
>grateful.... *^_^*

I do not know the recipe, hence I also want to know.  The main thing I am
looking for is what sort of batter to use to make the cake?

So, if anyone is kind enough to provide the information could you either
post it to the entire group, or at least cc: me on the email with the 
recipe?

Thanks in advance,
-- 
- You ever have one of those days where you just want to teleport in
- somewhere, destroy a couple of monsters, do some property damage,
- then teleport out?
** internet: scanner@rpi.edu	** bitnet:   userf0f3@rpitsmts.bitnet
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
From: yoichi@carson.u.washington.edu (Yoichi Ii)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: Recipe for Okonomiyaki?
Date: 12 Jan 93 22:14:00 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
NNTP-Posting-Host: carson.u.washington.edu

In article <93012.44596.J105270@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM> J105270@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM writes:
>Flour, water, egg "mixed to the right consistency" - slightly thicker than
>pancakes...a little salt or kagakucho miryu (msg?) then the usual goodies
>on top...shredded cabbage, ao nori, shrimp, etc. and don't forget to pour
>on that Bulldog sauce...

Depends on how you like it (it's "okonomi", after all :-) but, I would
tend to add the finely chopped cabbage to the list of the main ingredients.

The rest is truly "as you like it" (okonomi).  Squid, octopus, pork, and
beef are popular additions.  Ao nori (powdered seaweed), katuo bushi
(flakes of dried bonito), shouga (pickled ginger) are common toppings to
sprinkle on just before eating.  Experimentation with mixtures including
Westershire sauce, soy sauce, ketchup, ginger, and mayo is also fun.
From: lynch+@CS.CMU.EDU (Kevin Lynch)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: NSF Summer Institute in Japan
Date: 7 Jan 93 20:57:54 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.C0I4wL.vx.2
Organization: Carnegie Mellon University

In article <C0H238.2yD@unix.amherst.edu>, jmfuchs@unix.amherst.edu (jesse fuchs) writes:
|> David O Hunt (bluelobster+@CMU.EDU) wrote:
|> > Anyone applying?
|> > 
|> > David Hunt
|> > bluelobster+@cmu.edu
|> 	Summer institute? Tell me more! I've always wanted to go to Japan, 
|> but I was unable to this year because of excessive responsibilites and ties 
|> here at college.

This is from the program announcement for the 1993 NSF Summer Institute
in Japan (sorry, applications were due Dec. 1, 1992):

--------------
  THE 1993 SUMMER INSTITUTE IN JAPAN FOR U.S. GRADUATE STUDENTS IN
SCIENCE AND ENGINEERING, INCLUDING BIOMEDICAL SCIENCE AND ENGINEERING

For 1993 the Summer Institute will provide up to 60 select U.S. 
graduate students in science and engineering, including biomedical
sciences, first-hand experience in a Japanese research environment,
intensive Japanese language training, and an introduction to the 
science and science-policy infrastructure of Japan.  The goals of
the Institute are to expose U.S. graduate students to Japanese
science and engineering in the context of a research laboratory
and to initiate personal relationships which will better enable
the students to collaborate with Japanese counterparts in the
future.  The program will last for approximately eight weeks from
June 25 to August 21, 1993.  The Institute will take place in two
locations:  Tokyo and Tsukuba, which is located about 60 km
northeast of Tokyo.
----------------

This will be the fourth Summer Institute.  I went in 1991, and I 
highly recommend this program.  The program is sponsored by the
NSF, the U.S. National Institutes of Health, the Japanese Task
Force on Access, and the Center for Global Partnership of the
Japan Foundation.  The NSF and Science and Technology Agency (STA)
of Japan serve as the implementing agencies.  The host research
institutes consist of a wide range of government and corporate
laboratories.  Support includes a stipend of $2,000, along with a 
food and travel allowance.  Housing is provided.

For more information on NSF-sponsored programs for scientific
cooperation with Japan, you can send email to NSFJinfo@nsf.gov.

(Hi to all you SI91'ers out there!)

Kevin Lynch
CMU Robotics Institute
 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
From: jturley@netcom.com (Jim Turley)
Subject: Re: NASA and the Japanese Space Program
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 08:29:24 GMT

Rikiya....blow off.  We're just plain *tired* of listening to you.

You are the Kill champion of the month.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
From: ahh@orthanc.kgn.ibm.com (Andy Heffernan)
Subject: Re: Opinions on the book, "The Hollow Doll"
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 93 15:06:02 GMT
Reply-To: andyh@kgnvmt.vnet.ibm.com
Organization: Gizmonic Institute

In article <1993Jan4.072003.4808@spcvxb.spc.edu> mauritz_c@spcvxb.spc.edu writes:
>In article <1i901dINNc89@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu>, johan@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Johan van Zanten) writes:
[...]
>Any book that can elicit such an emotional response is probably an
>intriguing read even if I don't agree with the ideas.  I'd be happy
>to reimburse the postage cost.

        Indeed.  I bought the book a few years ago and have read it a number
of times since then.  I didn't particularly like Bohnaker's moralizing
(different is not necessarily bad), but the book does actually have a central
thesis and I felt that he at least provides an interesting point of view of
life in Japan.  His biggest problems are that 1) he's not Japanese and so he
doesn't really fit in; and 2) he's not in love with everything Japanese.

        How well can you read something about modern Japanese culture
which was written by someone who didn't much like his experience in Japan?
How infatuated are you with a place you've probably never been to?

-- 
Andy Heffernan                     andyh@kgnvmt.vnet.ibm.com (Internet)
-- currently serving time          ahh@harod.haifa.ibm.com
   in the Middle East              ahh@orthanc.kgn.ibm.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
From: blamb@hri.com (Bill Lambert)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: What is culture? (was: Brainwashied
Date: 6 Jan 93 15:33:02 GMT
Organization: Horizon Research, Inc.


=> > In article <7568@bigbird.hri.com.hri.com> blamb@hri.com 
=> > (Bill Lambert) writes:
=> > 
=> > Features all societies have in common: 
=> > 
=> > > 	1) An explanation for "Where did we come from?"
=> > > 	2) A wish for a better life for themselves and
=> > > 	descendents.
=> > > 	3) A recipe to achieve 2) above.
=> > > 	4) An accepted notion of social correctness.
=> > > 	5) An accepted notion of what constitutes
=> > > 	public safety and security and how to maintain it.
=> > > 	6) A definition of what constitutes a family unit,
=> > > 	an the member's reponsibilities within that family unit.
=> > > 	7) An commonly accepted attitude about relationships
=> > > 	to other cultures or peoples.
=> > > 
=> >
=>  > (others, I suppose...)

Peter Weekes <Peter.Weekes@bbs.actrix.gen.nz> writes:
=>         8) INTERNET
=> 

Well... I was sure I forgot something.

- Bill
From: ee52fbc@sdcc15.ucsd.edu (Maiko Covington)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Recipe for Okonomiyaki?
Date: 10 Jan 93 02:50:33 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego



	Hello.... I am hungrily wondering if anyone out there has a
recipe for how to make okonomiyaki at home, from standard
ingredients (i.e. no premade 'instant' stuff)? I would be VERY
grateful.... *^_^*
		Maiko Covington

Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
From: k3amichi@student.business.uwo.ca (Kentaro Nakamichi)
Subject: Re: *NOT* Naked GIFs of Riec-chan
Organization: University of Western Ontario
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 08:01:58 GMT

jturley@netcom.com (Jim Turley) writes:

> Ok....NO ONE OF JAPANESE DESCENT OBJECTED. You white people wh
> what to see what the NUMBER 1 subject of Japanese News is please 
> see email me.   
> 
> 
> Chill out SJC! 
> 
> 
> 

Well, here's my objection.  I don't care what you guys wish to do but 
your attitudes ignore the fact that some of us may be uncomfortable with 
this stuff.  I ask that you take this private.

k3amichi@student.business.uwo.ca (Kentaro Nakamichi)
Western Business School  --  London, Ontario
From: Mark Crispin <mrc@Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: on extraterritoriality
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 02:13:02 -0800 (PST)
Organization: University of Washington
NNTP-Posting-Host: ikkoku-kan.panda.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

The subject of the unequal treaties and extraterritoriality has been brought
up on multiple occasions, but with little understanding of what brought them
about.

Remember, Japan and China in the mid 19th century were feudal nations where a
member of the ruling class could kill anyone for no reason at all.  Torture
was the norm.  The common people stayed alive by avoiding the ruling class as
much as possible.

The basis of extraterritoriality was that the system of law in Japan and China
was too barbaric to subject foreigners to.  It was.  Japan and China reacted
to the humiliation in different ways.  Reformers in both countries saw it as
an opportunity to overturn the old system and establish a system based in law.
They succeeded in Japan, because the reformers were the government.  They
failed in China, and continued instability gave the western powers (and Japan)
the excuse to hold on to extraterritorial rights until WWII.

Before you condemn the western powers for insisting upon extraterritoriality,
you may want to consider if *you* would have wanted to live under what passed
for ``Japanese law'' in the 1860's.  The bakufu was cruel, and its overthrow
was based in part upon a *Japanese* desire to be rid of the samurai system
(although this was not recognized by the samurai of Satsuma and Cho^shu^ who
participated -- they murdered Sakamoto Ryo^ma when they figured it out...).
One of the purposes of Iwakura Tomomi's mission to the West in the early Meiji
years was to convince the western powers that the barbaric feudal system had
been overthrown and thus there was no longer a need for extraterritoriality.
It was premature, and thus unsuccessful; but by the end of the century Japan
had shaken off the unequal treaties (and began imposing such on China...).

It is all fine and good to argue ``when in Rome, do as the Romans do'', but
that presupposes a basic respect for human rights that was lacking in feudal
societies.  Even the slaves in the US South had a legally-respected right to
life, and slave-owners who killed their slaves could be prosecuted for murder.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan