HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sarah@cs.arizona.edu (Sarah M. Officer)
Subject: Re: need election results from Arizona
Date: 9 Nov 92 07:55:44 CST
Followup-To: talk.politics.animals
Summary: Defeated anti-trapping, non-lethal game mgmt proposition
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu


[Moderator's note:  I am posting this for information only.  There is
no mention of the morality of hunting.  However,this is a hotly
contested issue.  So this post will be crossposted to
talk.politics.animals and all followups will be directed there.  (Any
followups to rec.hunting will be forwarded to t.p.a or deleted)  tjr]
 

In article <1992Nov6.085237.12716@doug.cae.wisc.edu>, CBARNES@tamvm1.tamu.edu (Chris Barnes) writes:
> Just a quick question:   How did the anti-hunting (trapping) vote
> in Arizona come out?  Did *we* win?
>  
>       ---------------------------------------------------------
> Chris Barnes            |
> cbarnes@tamvm1.tamu.edu |  "Those that already have the answer


Proposition 200 was defeated, but not by as large a margin as many
would have expected.  It was promoted as an anti-trapping statute,
but with subtle language that include setting a policy of 
'humane and non-lethal' wildlife management.  Many were misled by
a statement in the proposition stating 'nothing in paragraph D
shall prevent hunting'(or something like this).  Of course, the
non-lethal management statement was not in paragraph D.

I called the AZ Game & Fish dept. on the week before the election
and found out a few things about hunting & fishing in AZ:

- There are only 240 licensed trappers in the state of Arizona.
- One dog was caught in a leghold trap last year, and it was a
  legal trap.  (Not hundreds of dogs every year as stated in a
  flyer from the humane society).  Game & Fish tracks these stats.
- Baiting of traps is illegal in AZ, and Game & Fish pursue those
  who bait traps (pro-200 adds showed animals going after bait).
- Almost all trapping is of coyotes.  There has been a strong 
  increase in the coyote population of AZ in recent years.  Some
  trappers sell the hides for profit, some are ranchers who trap
  to reduce predator populations.
- Game & Fish decides legal methods of taking animals (such as
  whether rimfire or centerfire rifles are legal for deer).  These
  regulations are automatically law by some clause in the AZ state
  constitution.  If G&F deemed it necessary to ban trapping, however,
  they must go thru a public medium to institute the regulation.  It
  is very tedious, so there *might* be cause to institute a regulation
  through an initiative.
- The number of hunters in AZ is something in the hundreds of thousands.
- The number of fisherman in AZ probably exceeds half the state
  population.
- Most hunters I talk to wouldn't mind seeing a ban on leghold traps
  on public land (about 75% of AZ is public in some way), but they
  had a problem with the 'humane and non-lethal wildlife mgmt'
  part of the proposition.
- There is some concern that the next thing that would be deemed cruel
  would be bowhunting or shooting with muzzleloaders.  


Sarah Officer
sarah@caslon.cs.arizona.edu



Newsgroups: rec.hunting
From: robert_walton@NeXT.COM (Robert Walton)
Subject: Yet another shotgun question...
Date: 9 Nov 92 07:57:25 CST
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu


I saw a Winchester/Browing Model 12 pump today; one of the limited series  
with the gold inlaid game scene on the receiver.  I think it's 28 gauge.   
Is this a good gun (engineering/manufacturing quality) and is there any  
use for it beyond light upland game?  What about the 28 gauge -- is this a  
useful gauge with a solid future?  If it is one I should add to the  
arsenal, what's a good price from a gun store, new?

Comments?

Thanks,

Robert
From: vojak@icebucket.stortek.com (Bill Vojak)
Newsgroups: rec.hunting
Subject: Colorado Voting & Black Bears
Date: 6 Nov 92 14:47:48 GMT
Article-I.D.: doug.1992Nov6.084748.12259
Organization: Storage Technology Corp.
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu


betz@gozer.idbsu.edu (Andrew Betz) writes:
#does neal knox have a damage assessment out yet?  things appear to
#be pretty bleak on the national scene: i'm aware of victories by
#braun, boxer, and feinstein (triple ugh).  

 I wanted to vomit when I saw THOSE results!!!!!!

 Oh well. Colorado elected Ben Nighthorse Cambell (D) to the Senate.  He
 was given a A or A+ rating by every pro-gun organization.  He REPLACES
 Sen. Tim Wirth(less) who retired with his NRA "F" rating intact.

 Ben was a former 3rd district Congressman, and the person who has now replaced
 him is a NRA "A" person.  All of our congresscritters who won/re-elected
 are at least "B+" except for "F" rated Skaggs & Schroder. (Boulder & Denver).
 A couple of "C" type challengers lost to some "A" type incumbents.

 A NRA backed victims rights bill won by 80+%,  but the Animinal Rights
 backed "Spring Black Bear Hunt Ban" also won by 75%.  The Colorado
 Dept of Wildlife OPPOSED the hunt ban, but didn't advertise this.  Alot
 of people I know voted for the ban thinking that it was something that
 the Div of Wildlife wanted.  Instead it strips power from the Div., and
 underminds their ability to manage the resources.

 There are 12,000+ bears in Colorado, and the Div. was reducing the
 spring permits over a 3 year period to 10% of current levels.  Only
 about 200 bears are taken each spring.  This was still not enough
 for the AR types who wanted a complete spring ban.

                                Bill Vojak
                                Bill_Vojak@stortek.com
                                NRA, ILA, CFC

------------------------------------------
Anti-Gun President, Anti-Gun Congress,
Better buy what you want BEFORE Dec 31.
----------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.hunting
From: todd@refrig.dixie.com (Todd H.)
Subject: Re: need election results from Arizona
Organization: the Bear Creek Tinkerer's Society and Social Club
Date: 9 Nov 92 07:56:14 CST
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu

CBARNES@tamvm1.tamu.edu (Chris Barnes) writes:

>Just a quick question:   How did the anti-hunting (trapping) vote
>in Arizona come out?  Did *we* win?

Yes.  68% AGAINST banning trapping (and though they don't admit to it even
now, hunting and fishing, too).

Now, if Clinton is claiming a mandate with 3% LESS vote than Dukakis lost
with last time, then what do you suppose we can call the Arizona vote?

SUPER-Pro Hunting MANDATE MADNESS!!

-- 
Todd++;
------------------
todd@refrig.dixie.com
**** I voted with the majority this past election - AGAINST Clinton! ****


Newsgroups: rec.hunting
From: prichard@devon.larc.nasa.gov
Subject: Re: Advice needed on used 4x4 pickups
Organization: Lockheed Engineering & Sciences Co.
Date: 13 Nov 92 07:51:49 CST
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu


 CBARNES@tamvm1.tamu.edu (Chris Barnes) writes:

   No way.  I'm not so much opposed to the foreign trucks as I am the
   wimp sized ones (that would include s-10's & rangers).  Just show me a
   small truck that I can carry me, my wife, 3 kids, dog (in a kennel),
                                             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
   and camping gear in.  It doesn't exist!


there's your problem! put the kids in a kennel and have the dog up front.
not only quieter but saves wear and tear on the seats.

seriously, the problem with getting a bigger truck is like getting a
bigger house; your stuff expands to fill the space allotted for it.


--
 ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
 | Devon Prichard                       I haven't lost my mind;         |
 | Senior Gofer                         its backed up on tape somewhere.|
 | Lockheed Engineering & Sciences Co.                                  |
 | prichard@devon.larc.nasa.gov                                         |
 ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||


Newsgroups: rec.hunting
From: dmn2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (DENNIS MICHAEL NOVOSEL)
Subject: Geese Hunting in Jersey or Eastern Penn.
Organization: Lehigh University
Date: 13 Nov 92 07:50:51 CST
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu

    I am at the current momement attendin college in Bethlehem, P.A. and was
    wondering when Geese hunting begins and ends in N.J. & P.A. . I was also
    wondering how the geese hunting is out here and where are some good areas
    to hunt.  At the current moment I own about 100 decoys with my father and
    would like to have him come up here one weekend to dosome hunting.

                                  Thanks, Dennis Novosel


      


Newsgroups: rec.hunting
From: CBARNES@tamvm1.tamu.edu (Chris Barnes)
Subject: Re: Advice needed on used 4x4 pickups
Organization: Texas A&M University
Date: 11 Nov 92 07:55:01 CST
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu

In article <1992Nov10.072534.11445@doug.cae.wisc.edu>
  miles@ms.uky.edu (Stephen D. Grant) writes:
>Ford?
>Well Toyota has been the best seller for 15 years in a row. They and
>Mazda are top rated in the Powers ratings. The toyota is considered the
>model by which others are judged. Not Ford.
>However, even though I'm the worlds biggest Toyota fan, I have read an
>article that has convinced me to buy American next time (even if its not
>as good).
 
 
No way.  I'm not so much opposed to the foreign trucks as I am the
wimp sized ones (that would include s-10's & rangers).  Just show me a
small truck that I can carry me, my wife, 3 kids, dog (in a kennel),
and camping gear in.  It doesn't exist!
 
Also, IMHO, buying a truck without the extra seat in the back (forget
those stupid side jump seats) is just plain short-sighted.  That
effectively eliminates all but Chevys, Fords, and Dodges.  IMHO, the
room in the back of a Dodge is too small (almost as bad as a small
truck), so they are out too.  That leaves you with Chevys & Fords.  I
have owned Fords my whole life, and they are solid.  But currently,
the Chevy's just plain look better.
 
      ---------------------------------------------------------
Chris Barnes            |
cbarnes@tamvm1.tamu.edu |  "Those that already have the answer
(409) 846-3273 (home)   |   can afford to be clueless!"
(409) 845-4437 (work)   |


Newsgroups: rec.hunting
From: CBARNES@tamvm1.tamu.edu
Subject: For sale - Labrador Retriever puppies (*good ones*)
Organization: Texas A&M University
Date: 10 Nov 92 07:23:46 CST
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu

HR Millercreek's Cash Payoff MH
(OFA good, yellow, completed MH title at the 1992 Nat'l Master)
             x
Sonny's Yellar Dawg Dixie SH
(OFA good, CERF certified, yellow)
 
The pedigree for these pups includes:
  7 Hunting Test Titles (1 is a national title)
 32 Field Trial Titles  (8 are national titles)
  6 Confirmation Titles
 
5 males, 5 females ready to go home Thanksgiving week.
 
$325  For more information, call Chris & Dalene Barnes @ 409-846-3273
or just drop me an email message.....
--------------------------------------
Chris Barnes
cbarnes@tamvm1.tamu.edu
(409) 846-3273 (home)
(409) 845-4437 (work)


Newsgroups: rec.hunting
From: kdw@icd.ab.com (Kenneth D. Whitehead)
Subject: Re:Rabbits
Organization: Allen-Bradley Company, Inc.
Date: 5 Nov 92 08:54:07 CST
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu

>I live on about four acres of land which has an overabundance of
>rabbits on it.  Seeing as they are a nuisance because they bring the
>local mountain lion around, I was planning on trapping them (with
>proper permits, of course).  Now I have heard that rabbits can carry a
>disease that can be transmitted to humans through the meat.  How does
>one detect this disease?  (Is there anything I should look out for?)
>Also do you have any advice for catching them and cooking them?  Are
>there species of rabbits that I shouldn't even bother considering
>eating?

>BTW, I'm a new poster, so I'm apologizing for any mistakes or possible FAQs.

The disease you refere to is called tularemia (sp?), and can be recognized
by "funny", i.e., lethargic behavior on Bugs' part, as well as by spots
on the liver when you field dress it.  Conventional wisdom says that this
is only a problem during warm months, which is why most rabbit seasons
don't start until sometime in November.  A good precaution is to wear
rubber gloves when handling, cleaning, or coming into contact with
bunny blood.

Cottontails are yummy - you basically prepare them just about any way
you'd do chicken.  I've heard of some people eating jack rabbits, but
I've never heard any rave reviews about these.

I've never heard of trapping them;  be careful, it may not be legal.
Your best best on bunnies (under the circumstances you describe) would
probably be a scoped .22LR as you sit on your back porch with a can
of your favorite beverage (non-alcoholic, of course) watching the sunset.  
Make sure you're properly licensed, and good luck.

Ken Whitehead


Newsgroups: rec.hunting
From: shaffer@achilles.ctd.anl.gov (Michael A. Shaffer)
Subject: Sportsmen Against Hunger
Organization: Argonne National Laboratory
Date: 13 Nov 92 07:51:00 CST
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu

A while back I posted about several groups that were providing game meat
to charities (sportsmen against hunger). I have lost all of the info
I had on these groups. Does anyone have addresses or phone numbers?
I believe that Safari Club International and Putting People First were
a couple of the sponsors.

                                mike
From: lcline@agora.rain.com (Larry Cline)
Subject: Re: Pix of hunters using Politically Incorrect weapons needed
Organization: Open Communications Forum
Date: 9 Nov 92 07:55:20 CST
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu
Keywords: semi-automatic, assault rifle, military-styled

In article <1992Nov6.081753.3293@doug.cae.wisc.edu> powlesla@acs.ucalgary.ca (Jim B. Powlesland) writes:
>>gray@hawkmoon.mn.org writes:
>
>>I edit a newsletter for the Gun Owners' Civil Rights Alliance in
>>the People's Republic of Minnesota.
>
>>We need snapshots of hunters who hunt with military style semi-
>>automatics, showing them with their rifle and the game they took.
>
>>This year I am hunting with a party that includes an M1A and an
>>SKS.  I know another hunter who will be using his HK91.  We want
>>to publish as many accounts and pix as we can of people who hunt
>>with rifles the Politically Correct claim are never used by
>>hunters.
>
>>Thanks for any help.
>
>You'll get no help from me. I hunt and I am absolutely APPALLED
>that you and a bunch of other assholes are out there shooting
>animals with military assault weapons. And an editor of a pro-gun
>lobby newspaper to boot! The one thing hunters do NOT need is a
>photo spread in your rag proving the fact. Hunters have a hard
>enough time as it is with the public. You will only make it
>worse for all of us. 
>

You seem incredibly naive as to what these firearms really are.
The HK91 has no functional difference than any other semi-automatic
firearm that shoots a .308 round.  If you want hunters to have
an easier time of it, then support the fact that the appearance
of the firearm has no effect on its functionality.

-- 
Larry Cline (Amiga Harpoon Scenario Administrator)
lcline@agora.rain.com
C_________   Industrial Graphics



Newsgroups: rec.hunting
From: shaffer@achilles.ctd.anl.gov (Michael A. Shaffer)
Subject: Re: AZ prop 200?
Organization: Argonne National Laboratory
Date: 9 Nov 92 07:55:59 CST
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu

In article <1992Nov6.085248.12749@doug.cae.wisc.edu>, boardman%cancer.unm.edu@lynx.unm.edu (Bob Boardman) writes:
|>   So, what was the fate of prop. 200 in Arizona?

Defeated. Yippee.

				mike


Newsgroups: rec.hunting
From: mas@icf.hrb.com (Mark A. Singer)
Subject: Hunting rabbits with my patch hound.
Organization: HRB Systems, Inc.
Date: 5 Nov 92 08:43:12 CST
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu

         To all you rabbit hunters you will not believe this one.

I have been hunting rabbits with my beagle patches for some time. He
is about 15 inches high and his coat is gold and white no black or
brown.  He is reg. as a beagle but here in PA. we call them patch
hounds. They were originally raised for hunting showshoe rabbits
because of there big and huskey build. But anyway we went out one
saturday when he was about 6 months old. Towards the end of the day he
was on a real good chase then all at once he started yelping and would
not move. I went closer and called but he would not come in. I walked
up to him and believe it or not he had a box turtle closed up on his
back toes. I could not pry it open with my hands so I had to get a
stick and push it down inside his shell to get it to open up. The dog
was ok but sore. What do you think the chance is of that ever
happening.


Newsgroups: rec.hunting
From: powlesla@acs.ucalgary.ca (Jim B. Powlesland)
Subject: Re: Pix of hunters using Politically Incorrect weapons needed
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta
Date: 9 Nov 92 07:54:19 CST
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu
Keywords: semi-automatic, assault rifle, military-styled

I have been receiving a number of email messages lately
concerning the opinions expressed in my last rec.hunting post. I
thought I would post my reply here to save time and effort. The
gist of the comments are that I need to be educated about
"assault" weapons, they really aren't that bad, and I am being
deceived by appearances. The point I would like to make is that
it doesn't matter what I think, IT'S WHAT THE NON-HUNTING PUBLIC
THINKS THAT IS IMPORTANT. 

A few years ago in Alberta, the public was outraged by the SIGHT
of bowhunters in full camo legally hunting in a bow zone that
happened to be dissected by a main highway. They raised such a
fuss that the Fish and Wildlife passed regulations prohibiting
hunting within 100 metres of the highway.

Imagine for a moment, that instead of bowhunters, we now have
guys with military weapons in full public view.




Newsgroups: rec.hunting
From: rsojka@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (robert.e.sojka)
Subject: Re: What Kind of Hunting Rifle (Thanks)
Organization: AT&T
Date: 10 Nov 92 07:23:35 CST
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu

Thanks to everyone that responded. I received a lot of good suggestions.
I finally decided to go with the 7mm magnum and bought a
Remington BDL Custom Deluxe. Also got a Leupold VAR XII 3-9x
scope for it.

I went to a rifle range this weekend and was very pleased. I
thought I'd start out slow to get used to the gun and to zero in
the scope so I used the 50 yard range. I used 150 gr Remington ammo
and it was very comfortable to shoot no overwhelming recoil. Maybe this
is because of the smaller grain bullet. I don't know. I shot
off about 20 rounds shooting groups of 3. My first few groups
were not very tight, but after getting over the initial pschycological
effects of images of a broken shoulder, pain and suffering etc. that
this type of gun is supposedly known for I was able to shoot groups
about the size of a quarter. I know this is not very impressive for this
range but the point is I felt very comfortable with this gun.

The morale of the story is that everone is different. Some people
may feel uncomfortable with a magnum where as some people may not.
My suggestion to anyone considering buying one is to at least try
one out at a range if possible before you're dissuaded by stories
of "too much kick" and "too uncomfortable". 

I'll be trying the 100 yard range next weekend and know I'll be
having fun. Again thanks to everyone that responded.

Bob



Newsgroups: rec.hunting
From: ce0o+@andrew.cmu.edu (Clifford Andrew Erickson)
Subject: Re: Rabbits
Date: 9 Nov 92 07:56:53 CST
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu

On 05-Nov-92 in Re: Rabbits                  
user Randy Hayman@raven.alask writes:
> 
>If you're talking about Tuleremia (sp?) then you should only be
>concerned about getting it in an open wound, no problem after it's
>cooked.  Safest is to wait until after a "hard frost" then (and I
>can't recall why) this is no longer a significant threat.


   Tularemia is a bacterial infection that is transmitted by the bites
of bloodsucking insects (ie. fleas, ticks, etc.). The populations of
these insects decrease very fast after the first frost, limiting the
spread of the disease and chances for infection.  It is possible to
acquire the disease through blood transmission from infected animals, so
follow the other readers advice and use rubber gloves.  Also, cook the
meat well.  I hope that this helps.
Later;
Cliff Erickson
ce0o@andrew.cmu.edu



Newsgroups: rec.hunting
From: mikef@bvc.edu
Subject: Land or Companion Needed
Organization: Buena Vista College, Storm Lake, IA
Date: 13 Nov 92 07:51:12 CST
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu

I will be in the Grinnell, Iowa vicinity for the T'Giving holiday and am 
looking for pheasant hunting locations.  Of course, the free route is my 
preference, but I will entertain other opportunities.  Count on me to 
practice the safest and most law-abiding methods.  Please post a response 
or e-mail any information you may have.

P.S.  Have had tremendous success hunting set-aside land around Jefferson, 
Iowa, even though corn is yet unpicked.  The first year birds are sitting 
really tight and providing enough practice for all.  Would be interested in 
trading host spots for those interested.

Thanks


Newsgroups: rec.hunting
From: bigdog@bones.et.byu.edu (Dan Canfield)
Subject: Re: Advice needed on used 4x4 pickups
Organization: Brigham Young University, Provo UT USA
Date: 10 Nov 92 07:24:58 CST
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu

In article <1992Nov9.075804.4714@doug.cae.wisc.edu> rigg@osnome.che.wisc.edu (Tim Rigg) writes:
>   From: Mark A Cavallaro <cavallar@cyber.net>
>   [Stuff deleted]
>
>   Well, I am now looking into trading my 92 civic for a used 4x4 pickup.
>   Can anyone offer their advice and/or experience as to a good candidate
>   (or bad) in the 85 to 87 years. Domestic or foreign, doesn't matter
>   (sales taxes go to local and state gov't :>)
>
>There really isn't much of a choice.  There are good trucks like Fords
>and there are "others".  If you want a truck that will perform, get a
>Ford.  If you like working on vehicles and don't mind staying on paved
>roads, buy something else.
>
>Oh ya, IMHO.
>
>tim


And you thought that caliber biaz was strong, just wait for the responses
to "What truck".

Basically, I would go with a domestic for economic reasons such as        
availability of parts and for patriotic reasons such as "Buy American".

I am a Chevy/GMC fan and have been for years.  My father drives Fords
and just took delivery on a brand new Diesel 3/4 ton.  It is a beautiful
truck and drives like no diesel I have ever driven.

My vehicle of choice is an 87 full size Chevy Blazer with the fuel injected
350.  It gives great room for more than two people, is comfortable driving
and runs flawlessly.

They vehicle I would prefer to have if I had the money would be a GMC 3/4
ton superduty with the 454 big-block and extended cab, but in April when
I bought the Blazer, I couldn't afford $22,500 for a truck... for that matter,
I can't afford it now either.

What vehicle you buy is going to depend alot on what uses you have for it.
Some of the smaller "sport" trucks are great if you don't need to tow a
big trailer or haul a lot of wood.

What do you plan on using it for?


Dan Canfield
bigdog@bones.et.byu.edu

DoD #0071,RP90
'89 FJ1200
'89 Indy707
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Newsgroups: rec.hunting