HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mdw@theory.TC.Cornell.EDU (Matt Welsh)
Subject: Re: Introducing phone-book (was Re: One Line Bio: Matt Welsh)
Followup-To: alt.fan.matt.welsh,alt.non.sequitur,alt.religion.kibology,misc.test,alt.flame
Organization: Cornell Theory Center
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 17:46:05 GMT

In article <1992Oct16.165557.15987@julian.uwo.ca> bedford@asterix.gaul.csd.uwo.ca (Darryl Bedford) writes:
>Yes, you too can have your own alt.flame newsgroup.
>
>alt.flame._____________   <- insert your name here
>
>Imagine, daily flames about how useless you are.  About
>how your work is so boring you have to turn to your own
>alt.flame newsgroup.

Sounds good! You first. 
I'll newgroup alt.flame.darryl.bedford this afternoon.

Watch for it!

mdw

-- 
Matt Welsh    mdw@tc.cornell.edu        +1 607 253 2737
Systems Programmer, Cornell Theory Center
  "Yow! Up ahead! It's a DONUT HUT!!"
Newsgroups: alt.fan.matt.welsh,alt.non.sequitur,alt.test,alt.religion.kibology
From: dunster@sdsu.edu (mark dunster)
Subject: Re: One Line Bio: Matt Welsh
Organization: sdsu
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 23:33:41 GMT

In article <mdw1.719090743@crux1.cit.cornell.edu>, mdw1@crux1.cit.cornell.edu (Matt Welsh) writes:
> 
> Occupation: Taste Tester, Phillips 66
> 
> 
> All other information is given out on a need-to-know basis.
> 
> mdw
> 
> --
> Matt Welsh    mdw@tc.cornell.edu        +1 607 253 2737
> Systems Programmer, Cornell Theory Center
>   "Yow! Up ahead! It's a DONUT HUT!!"
> 
> 



I am I the only one who hates the creation of these useless new groups, by
people with giant egos?
Xref: sparky alt.fan.matt.welsh:8 alt.test:13416 alt.non.sequitur:378
From: c9221777@cc.newcastle.edu.au (Brother Redeye)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.matt.welsh,alt.test,alt.non.sequitur
Subject: Re: What is this group about?
Date: 16 Oct 92 02:05:29 GMT
Organization: University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA

In article <mdw1.719096495@crux1.cit.cornell.edu>, mdw1@crux2.cit.cornell.edu (Matt Welsh) writes:
> This group's about me. Or so I think. 

Methinks that you may have a bit of an ego problem.

> Try reading alt.non.sequitur, that should make things more confusing.
> 
> 
> mdw
> 
> --
> Matt Welsh    mdw@tc.cornell.edu        +1 607 253 2737
> Systems Programmer, Cornell Theory Center
>   "Yow! Up ahead! It's a DONUT HUT!!"
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All opinions expressed herein are my own and do not reflect those of the
University of Newcastle ... but then again, as I have to pay to use these
facilities anyway, who really cares?!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Send all hate mail to: c9221777@cc.newcastle.edu.au
                   or: c9221777@wombat.newcastle.edu.au
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Newsgroups: alt.fan.matt.welsh,alt.non.sequitur,alt.test,alt.religion.kibology
From: james@unidata.com (James Powell)
Subject: Re: One Line Bio: Matt Welsh
Organization: Unidata, Inc.
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 23:37:37 GMT


>	Occupation: Taste Tester, Phillips 66

Ooh ooh. Can I have my own newsgroup, too? Gee, but then _everyone_ will want
their own newsgroup, and we'll have to rename alt to phone-book. Hope this
gets out before the rmgroup does...
  -James-

--

/-----------------------------------------------------------------------------\
| James Powell - Programmer/Analyst - Special Projects - jamesp@unidata.com   |
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------------/
Newsgroups: alt.fan.matt.welsh,alt.non.sequitur,alt.test,alt.religion.kibology
From: bedford@asterix.gaul.csd.uwo.ca (Darryl Bedford)
Subject: Introducing phone-book (was Re: One Line Bio: Matt Welsh)
Reply-To: bedford@asterix.gaul.csd.uwo.ca (Darryl Bedford)
Organization: University of Western Ontario
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 16:55:57 GMT

Forget alt.fan...

Yes, you too can have your own alt.flame newsgroup.

alt.flame._____________   <- insert your name here

Imagine, daily flames about how useless you are.  About
how your work is so boring you have to turn to your own
alt.flame newsgroup.  Hey, it worked for magundi
(alt.flame.john-macdonald).  I don't recall seeing any
alt.junk.dealer, alt.fan.enya.has.nice.body, or 
alt.not.sexy.almost.bald.not.worthy.of.captain.title
newsgroups, so the therapy has worked for him.

And it can work for you too!

DB
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
From: carney@rocky.rational.com (Mike Carney)
Subject: Re: Tolkien & Howard
Organization: Rational, Santa Clara, CA
	<Bw85tq.HEo@ns1.nodak.edu>
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1992 01:26:37 GMT


>In article <Bw85tq.HEo@ns1.nodak.edu> hennebry@plains.NoDak.edu (Michael J. Hennebry) writes:
>
>   Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
>   Path: rational.com!uunet!nwnexus!uw-coco!uw-beaver!news.u.washington.edu!ns1.nodak.edu!plains.NoDak.edu!hennebry
>   From: hennebry@plains.NoDak.edu (Michael J. Hennebry)
>   Sender: usenet@ns1.nodak.edu (News login)
>   Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 17:27:26 GMT
>   References: <1992Oct15.073533.14972@newsroom.utas.edu.au> <Bw7v9D.5Iv@dcs.ed.ac.uk>
>   Nntp-Posting-Host: plains.nodak.edu
>   Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computing Network
>   Lines: 10
>
>   In article <Bw7v9D.5Iv@dcs.ed.ac.uk> smp@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Samuel Penn) writes:
>   >So yes, Tolkien is probably the most famous (though personally I consider
>   >Lord of the Rings to be among the worst books ever written), but there are
>   >others to whome the 'origin of fantasy' can be attributed to.
>
>   Say Dan'l, got any kindling? I think I can find a match.
>
>   -- 
>   Mike   hennebry@plains.NoDak.edu
>   "I still thing it's garbage, but beautifully cooked."   --  TP on TP
>

I'm not Dan'l, but I'll supply the kindling, and some gasoline!
--
 __________________________________________
|                         ______+          |
|   Michael D. Carney    <  M   |  \+/     |
|   carney@rational.com  <___C__| _<=>_    |                      
|                               0/ .[\ ]   |
|   "Remember...                \/[.[\\]   |
|    no matter where you        | /_\_\/   |
|    go, there you are" -B.B    | [] []    |
|_______________________________|_d]_[b____|
From: 910252m@ace.acadiau.ca (DWAYNE ALLAN MACKINNON)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
Subject: Re: A couple of Questions
Date: 16 Oct 92 02:19:21 GMT
Organization: Acadia University

In article <1992Oct15.211600.16231@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu> michaelt@essex.ecn.uoknor.edu (Cail mac Cuel) writes:
>From: michaelt@essex.ecn.uoknor.edu (Cail mac Cuel)

>-- 
>"Yea, though I walk through the shadow of |   michaelt@mailhost.ecn.uoknor.edu
>the Valley of Death, I will fear no Evil, |         Michael D. Thompson
>for I am at Mach 3, and accelerating."    | Ld. Cail mac Cuel, Knights Marshall,
>                     former SR-71 pilot   |     Barony of Namron, Ansteorra

Cail mac Cuel? You wouldn't happen to be a fan of Teresa Edgerton's Green 
Lion trilogy, would you?

P.S., Cool .sig.

DMK
Acadia University, Nova Scotia, Canada.
Organization: Arizona State University
Date: Wednesday, 14 Oct 1992 14:17:45 MST
From: <AHSRB@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
Subject: Re: A couple of Questions

another theory..  Keeping in mind that Belgarath and Pol are not seers (as was
previously brought up), add a quote in either Pawn or Queen (I'm pretty sure it
 was Pawn) that Belgarath says something like "Let's just see if we can get it
back, and maybe things will calm down".  At this point, Belgarath is not sure i
f this conflict is meant to be Garion's fight or not, _IF_ he is telling the tr
uth.  There is no reason to believe that Pol or Belgarath knew that Garion was
the choosen one until they met with Aldur in the Vale, is there?


I'd love to be corrected in this, so let's hear the disenters..
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
Subject: Re: An interesting topic...
From: tyoon@husc8.harvard.edu (Tehshik Yoon)
Date: 15 Oct 92 16:44:00 GMT

Michael Welsh Duggan <md5i+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:

>Here's an interesting  question. Consider the fact that Belgareth said
>that the Cthrag Yaska was 'an ordinary stone before my Master took it.'
>Yet, if this is so, how did Cthrag Sardius become into being? Was it
>ordinary once? I know it was supposed to have fallen out of the sky. Was
>this the Dark Prophecy's doing?
>Just curious to see what you guys think...

>-----------------------------------------------------
>From the Desk of the Ever Awesome....
>                                                     Michael Welsh Duggan!

>& remember, the secret to learning how to fly is to throw 
>yourself at the ground and miss...
>-----------------------------------------------------

I'm not sure, but I remember reading somewhere that Cthrag Yaska has
existed since the split in the prophecy, as has the Sardion.  But it
only took on the appearance of the Orb of Aldur when Aldur breathed
life into it or whatever.  That is, Cthrag Yaska only manifested itself
as a physical object when the Orb was created.

I dunno, tho'.

-Tehshik Yoon  tyoon@husc.harvard.edu

Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
From: ins450m@aurora.cc.monash.edu.au (T.F. Eccles)
Subject: Domes of fire
Organization: Monash University, Melb., Australia.
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 07:03:14 GMT

Right I've read it. *yawn* (3am end)

Wheres the next one..... I WANT IT NOW!!!

*grin*


[Spoiler Time]

























Think that ought to do it.

	As much as I like David Eddings books... well... there
seems to be repititons... admittedly same author... what?
Stop waffling? Oh, ok.

Basically, I just finished domes of fire (ta, Cat) and there
seems to be a _lot_ more resemblances between the Elene and 
Belgariad worlds. Not so much the characters (*grin*) but the
countrries. For instance, Lamorkand begins to look more and
more like Arendia, and Tamul Empire is very much like the 
Mallorean one in lotys of ways (and unlike in lots of ways too)
For instance... both governments mesh with the local ones, both
are to the east, both regard the Elenes (west) as being barbarians
.... the list continues....

Any other thoughts....

When is the BelgMush comign back :(
?I don't get to play much, but still.....

Eccles
From: EXG106@psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
Subject: Re: Tolkien & Howard
Date: 15 Oct 92 16:47:52 GMT
Organization: Penn State University

In article <1992Oct15.073533.14972@newsroom.utas.edu.au>,
u907736@postoffice.utas.edu.au (Edmund Chia) says:
>
>It appears that there is a large number of people out there who believe that
>Tolkien is the founding father of fantasy and that writers like Eddings,
>Weis & Hickman, et al are indebted to LOTRs for their ideas. However, no
>one seems to consider R. Howard an influence on anyone. IMHO, Howard deserves
>a place beside Tolkien as one of the founders of fantasy-literature. Yes,
>that means any hero that waves a sword is modelled on Conan.
>
>Edmund

Has everyone forgotten about the ORIGINAL fantasy?  What about Beowulf?
What about Mallory's (sp?) The Death of Arthur?   The ORIGINAL fantasy far pred
ates Tolkien.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eylon Geva            |   "Somebody please tell me that I'm dreaming,
geva@orville.psu.edu  |    It's not so easy to stop from screaming..."
exg106@psuvm.pdu.edu  |                            Iron Maiden
From: harsh@flammulated.owlnet.rice.edu (Anish Harshad Masharani)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
Subject: Re: The Beginning of a Philosophical Debate :)
Date: 16 Oct 92 21:28:30 GMT
	<1992Oct15.154209.9571@ugle.unit.no>
Organization: Rice University, Houston, Texas

The division between good and evil in the two children of prophecy comes in the
fact that Torak kills to please himself, while Garion kills Torak because it is
the only way to stop him.  Garion does not enjoy killing, which can clearly be
seen by his reaction when he kills Asharak.


And I think that Torak can be seen better as a religious symbol than as a 
Freudian one.  Torak is basically a lesser god (substitute angel here) who has 
rebelled against the Father (UL, wasn't it?).  He is Satan, evil because he 
does not wish to be ruled by another, and so is cast into loneliness.
--
Both God and the government watch over us constantly,
	but we don't pay God taxes.

					The King of Fools
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
From: aephel01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Subject: Question
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 17:37:36 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville

I have read the Belgariad and the Mallorean (sp?) and 
would like to read Eddings other series.  Could someone
please let me know the titles of the books/the series,
and are there any more books written by him?

Thanks in advance

-- no sig necessary --
       Aza
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
From: gjr@st-andrews.ac.uk (Graham James Reilly)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
Subject: Re: Have you heard of this author?
Date: 17 Oct 92 02:02:19 GMT
Organization: St. Andrews University, Scotland.

In article <roabennett.3.719240979@halls1.cc.monash.edu.au> roabennett@halls1.cc.monash.edu.au (Andrew Bennett) writes:
>Greetings all,
>
>I was wondering if any of  you Fantasy readers out there had heard of the 
>author TAD WILLIAMS. He wrote the series Thorn, Sorrow, and Memory...a 
>trilogy(?) about three great swords....
>
>I have read the first two books..(can't remember there names:( ...) but was 
>wondering if the third book was published yet....the series is really good (
>one of the best series that I have read for awhile!) and he has sort of left 
>me hanging in mid-air...*groan*
>
>Any info would be much appreciated...
>
>ummm also is there a alt.fantasy newsgroup?? If not, why not!
>
>Anyway, Later Dudes....
>
>Andrew Bennett
>
>
> 
>+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
>|  I can be contacted at the following  |  Reality is what people       |
>|  addresses...                         |  perceive it to be.           |
>|  The opinions expressed are entirely  |                               |
>|  my own.                              |  Sanity is what the majority  |
>|  e-mail me at:                        |  of people call Reallity.     |
>|  kryndal@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au        |                               |
>|  roabennett@halls1.cc.monash.edu au   | Insanity is what a Minority   |
>|  10706747@eng2.eng.monash.edu.au      | view as the Truth.            |
>|                                       |                    Anonymous  |
>+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+

Putting it simply (its late on a Friday night) Tad Williams is one of the
best fantasy authors out at the moment. He has really captured the Tolkien
ideal of 'telling a good story' above all else.


And.... as far as I can tell alt.fantasy comes under the jurisdiction of
the sf book list ( forgotten the name) .....


Dylan
From: jagrizza@uncc.edu (James A Grizzard)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
Subject: Re: question about belgariad
Date: 12 Oct 92 23:18:26 GMT
Reply-To: jagrizza@uncc.edu
Organization: University of NC at Charlotte


In article 2485@andromeda.rutgers.edu, dshaffer@andromeda.rutgers.edu (Donald A Shaffer) writes:
>Having already read the Belgariad (I think that's what it's called) and eagerly
>waiting for the sequel, I was wondering about Eddintgs other series.  Are they 
>in the same or different worlds, etc...
> Thanks


The sequel to the Belgariad is The Mallorean, which is in the same world, with the
same characters, and is just as great! (if not better).  It's already out, btw...

Eddings' other series is the Ellenium (sp?), which is in a different (fantasy) world,
with different characters.  It too is also out.  The sequel to the Ellenium, the
Tamulli (sp???), hasn't started yet, but I'm eagerly awaiting it...

The Losers, Eddings' latest book, is a real-world sort of story-telling experament. I
rather liked it, though I don't think it's the same calibur as his other books...

High Hunt, his first book... I haven't read it, but I have it in my possesion and plan
to start ASAP... <<grin>>

head to your local library or bookstore.  NOW! :>
From: keve@spuddy.uucp (David Clarke)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
Subject: Writing Style
Date: 13 Oct 92 17:44:55 GMT
Organization: Spuddy's Public Usenet Domain

Having read Dome of Fire, I do think his writing style is getting a little
flat and samey (sic) after all in the Belgariad we get Ce'Nedra as the
spoilt "brat" of a woman, which is virtually identical to Queen Ehlana
in Domes of Fire (she doesn't really appear in the previous books)

I think there are quite a few similar characters for instance Silk in the
Belgariad and the thief (can't remember his name -sorry) in Domes of Fire

I don't know what do you think ?

-- 

 * Meeeow ! Call Spuddy on (0203) 638780/638693 for FREE mail & Usenet access *
From: EXG106@psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
Subject: Re: eddings endings...
Date: 16 Oct 92 14:22:58 GMT
 <9210161218.AA06025@tulip.cis.ohio-state.edu>
Organization: Penn State University

In article <9210161218.AA06025@tulip.cis.ohio-state.edu>,
asher@news.cis.ohio-state.edu (Marnita Asher) says:
>
>
>That's not to say that it wouldn't have been good to see how Polgara and
>Garion would handle Belgareth's death.
>
>Marnita

I agree.  I thought that it was a little dissapointing that Toth died.  I think
Belgarath should have been the one to go.  IMHO, it would have the story that
much more intense.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eylon Geva            |   "Somebody please tell me that I'm dreaming,
geva@orville.psu.edu  |    It's not so easy to stop from screaming..."
exg106@psuvm.pdu.edu  |                            Iron Maiden
From: EXG106@psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
Subject: Re: A couple of Questions
Date: 12 Oct 92 20:03:54 GMT
Organization: Penn State University


In article <1992Oct12.182619.1576@dunix.drake.edu>, cad002@dunix.drake.edu
(Christopher Drake) says:
>
>I just have couple of questions concerning the David Eddings World:
>1)Does anybody happen to know David Eddings Address?  Or a place where
>he takes mail?
>2)Does Eddings have any plans to continue the Belgariad/Mallorean
>series?
>3)I'm rereading the Belgariad/Mallorean series for about the sixth time,
>mainly because I'm thinking of making a adventure campaign in the world,
>but not around the central characters.  I just love the way that Eddings
>pulls you into his stories, more like the child of the "Neverending
>Story" where every outcome seems to hinge upon your reactions:)  There
>is something that i noticed in the 'Pawn of Prophecy' that i question?
>When Belgarath comes back to take Pol, and she insists that he also take
>Garion with, and the reason why is because she caught him alone with
>Zubrette.  Belgarth laughs and says "so?" Pol is afraid of coming back
>and finding him set to be a father with Zubrette and insists they can't
>wait another 100 years.  What about this 100 years, would that mean they
>would have to wait for Zubrette to die and Garion could finally fulfill
>his prophecy or that they would have to wait for his heir?  The reason
>why this bothers me is because I thought they didn't know his sorcery,
>so how would he be alive in 100 years?  And his son may not have his
>mark since it was destined?  Just a question.
>
>Thank You
>Chris
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------

1)If anybody knows, let me know too! Thanks.

2)If he does decide to continue, I hope he takes a fresh perspective and
  uses a NEW BASIC PLOT!  But, a continuation could be fascinating.

3)Pol and Belgarath knew that Garion would have the power of the word and will
  but not to what extent (they didn't know how powerful he'd be).  Pol was
  saying that they'd have to wait for Zubrette to bite the dust (croak).
  They (Belgarath and Pol knew that Garion was the Child of Light).

             Eylon Geva
From: iacs2210@Oswego.EDU (Bob Ternosky)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
Subject: Re: A couple of Questions
Keywords: Eddings Inconsistency
Date: 13 Oct 92 15:40:25 GMT
Reply-To: iacs2210@oswego.Oswego.EDU (Bob Ternosky)
Organization: Instructional Computing Center, SUNY at Oswego, Oswego, NY

Regarding the dilemma in Pawn of Prophecy.  Perhaps the prophecy nudged Polgara
as it later nudged many other things and as we found out had also previously    nudged Belgarath, to say "Garion comes with me" that way the Prophecy
would come out right. Perhaps Polgara and Belgarath were not sure at the time
that Garion was the right one.  Maybe they thought it could have been him or his
grandchild.


--------
"Endangered species caged in fright, shot in cold blood no chance to fight,    
 ... the stage is set ... This is the Countdown to Extinction" - Dave Mustaine
 
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
From: JDRUM00@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU
Subject: Re: A couple of Questions
Organization: Rice University  
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 07:31:05 GMT

In response to the question about why Polgara felt Zubrette was a
serious threat to Garion's life (sorry...I don't know how to quote):
 
The point was made that 'Garion's name had been written in the stars
since the beginning of time' etc. etc. This may very well have been
true, but Belgarath and Polgara aren't seers. They can't READ the
stars, and they had no way of knowing for certain whether or not
Garion was the chosen one. They could guess, of course, based on the
fact that events had started moving again with the theft of the Orb
after a five-hundred-year hiatus. If nothing had been happening in
the world, Polgara could simply have left Garion there to BE a
farmer...his forebears for hundreds of years had been ordinary
people. But the fact that Garion's parents were murdered and that
Zedar had stolen the Orb made it crucial to start paying close
attention to the line of Riva and making sure nothing happened to it
that would prevent it from producing the Child of Light at the
proper time.
 
Remember the speculations Beldin and Belgarath loved to engage in
about the effects of certain metabolic changes affecting sorcery?
Zubrette was a threat because the onset of puberty coupled with
a local love interest could have thrown Garion's body into states that
would have adversely affected his development as a sorcerer. Remember
that one of Polgara's main concerns after the episode at Salmissra's
palace in _Queen_of_Sorcery_ was 'what had happened' while Garion was
there.
 
Therefore, the reference to waiting another hundred years doesn't have
anything to do with waiting for Zubrette to die; rather, it's only
every hundred years or so that a child with the proper sort of potential
comes along. Since Belgarath and Polgara couldn't know for certain about
Garion until he used his power, they had to shepherd his development
closely IN CASE he turned out to be the one whose name was written all
over the stars.
 
Well, there's my thinking, anyway. Flame away. :)
 
Jenn Drummond
a.k.a. jdrum00@ricevm1.rice.edu
From: gjr@st-andrews.ac.uk (Graham James Reilly)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
Subject: Re: Tolkien & Howard
Date: 15 Oct 92 13:05:12 GMT
Organization: St. Andrews University, Scotland.

In article <1992Oct15.073533.14972@newsroom.utas.edu.au> u907736@postoffice.utas.edu.au (Edmund Chia) writes:
>I know the newsgroup is alt.fan.eddings but since it apparently also doubles
>as alt.fan.fantasy, I thought that I would send this here.
>
>It appears that there is a large number of people out there who believe that
>Tolkien is the founding father of fantasy and that writers like Eddings,
>Weis & Hickman, et al are indebted to LOTRs for their ideas. However, no
>one seems to consider R. Howard an influence on anyone. IMHO, Howard deserves
>a place beside Tolkien as one of the founders of fantasy-literature. Yes,
>that means any hero that waves a sword is modelled on Conan.
>
>Edmund

The thing about Tolkien was that he was the first to write fantasy with the
"Band of good and pure adventurers battle against all the odds to defeat
the mighty Dark Lord" plot that has spun off so many imitations, most of 
which do not compare to the original.  He started a whole trend of fantasy 
on his own.

( alt.fan.eddings readers may get a little annoyed if a huge thread starts
up about this so if antbody else has anything to say it should probably
either be said over email or in the SF book group )



Dylan