HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gisselbr@husc8.harvard.edu (Stephen Gisselbrecht)
Newsgroups: rec.music.industrial
Subject: Album recommendation.
Summary: ThinkTree's "Eight/Thirteen"
Keywords: diverse, eclectic
Date: 1 Jan 93 23:01:35 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc3.1993Jan1.180136.18931
Distribution: world
Organization: Harvard University Science Center


	First, I'd like to thank everyone for the SPK information, and 
apologize to anyone whom I offended with my characterization of "Machine
Age Voodoo" et al.  I've already picked up "Dekompositiones" and love it,
and I eagerly await the re-release of Auto-Da-Fe (sp?) on CD.

	I'd like to return the favor by recommending the album "Eight/
Thirteen" by ThinkTree, a Boston band.  It's a pretty eclectic album, going
in several directions.  The reason that I recommend it here is that with
all the "That's not industrial" flamage that I see, (and which I'll do you
all the favor of not joining, since I don't even think Nine Inch Nails or
Skinny Puppy are industrial) I think that just about everyone who reads
this newsgroup will really enjoy at least a couple of the songs on this
album.  Probably not the same ones, but there's something here for everyone.

	Particular favorites are the two leading tracks, which are kinda
poppy but have exactly what I'm looking for in music to dance to, (i.e.
interesting, syncopated rhythms which cause my body to make odd, contorted
motions), a track called "The Word" which includes spoken sections about a
televangelist and goes COMPLETELY over the top at the end, and "The Moon", a
brilliant/awful cover/deconstruction of "Everybody Wants to Rule the World"
by Tears for Fears (with different lyrics and no discernible melody).

	Now, having gotten you all keyed up, I wish I could help you find
this thing.  Boston seems to be pretty good about supporting the local
music scene; every decent record store in town seems to have one or two
copies of this album on CD.  The record label is called SineAppleSap
Records, but I don't think that's gonna help anybody much.  The album
doesn't have an address for this label.  I've never tried to find the
album anywhere else, so I don't know how widespread it is (their second
album, "Like the Idea", is on a major label and thus should be more
accessible, but isn't as good, in my opinion), but if someone you know is
visiting Boston you might ask them to snag you a copy.

	Thanks again for all the info.  

					steve gisselbrecht
Newsgroups: rec.music.industrial
From: locklin@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Scott Locklin )
Subject: Re: Ministry review, SF
Organization: Campus Crusade for Cthulhu
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 19:17:53 GMT
X-Posted-From: titan.ucc.umass.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <ben.725776605@ipoint> thoth@uiuc.edu (Ben Cox) writes:
>an2531@anon.penet.fi (/dev/high) writes:
>
>>Now, the part of the nite that very nearly ruined my whole
>>high - the break between Helmet and Ministry was filled with
>>Hank Williams Sr. Straight, nothing else, loud, twangy, music
>>to commit suicide by. It was the worst experience ever. Has
>>anyone else had this happen with this tour? The crowd was
>
>Ah, they did this at Lollapalooza Two, too. :)
>
And in Fitchburgh Ma...

-Scott
Newsgroups: rec.music.industrial
From: aankrom@nyx.cs.du.edu (Anthony Ankrom)
Subject: Re: Suggestions?
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 92 06:04:21 GMT

In article <dbyrne.724103756@unix1.tcd.ie> dbyrne@unix1.tcd.ie (I'm the H
p-Priest) writes:
>In <92345.014828SXL136@psuvm.psu.edu> SXL136@psuvm.psu.edu writes:
>
>
>>      I want to buy something from Foetus (sp?), but I am not sure whic

>>album to try out...what would be good choice for a Foetus newbie? ie, w
at
>>would be their definitive work, or *best* work, if there is one.
>
>Personally, I think that "HOLE" is the best. I've got it on tape (which
>has extra tracks which are brilliant). I have never seen any Foetus on
>CD unfortunately and was wondering about its availability. I've got the
>Steroid Maximus CD but that hasn't got the Foetus name really, has it?
>
>Ah well.......
>
>dan


 Speaking of Steroid Maximus, I think that this is probably Thirlwell
at his finest. Even if it doesn't have the Foetus name it's still got the
Foetus soul with maybe a dash of pre-Naked City Zorn. (Spillane is my fave
by the guy... and Spy vs. Spy and all the Morricone stuff...)
 Also, <<Thaw>> is a very good album, although the only copy of it that
I've ever seen is the one that I own.
 I think all of his material is great, but wasn't very thrilled by the
"BUtterfly Potion" single. The Steroid Maximus album has a great
instrumental version of Your Salvation on it...

St. Anthony

--
          / N \   O                   Mi vsi smo krizhani,
         |   \ |  || Ph               chlani izbrani
         |   | |_O-C-C-OH             mesarskega ceha...
BZ        \ / /      Ph                            aankrom@nyx.cs.du.edu
From: Nathan.H.Saunders@dartmouth.edu (Nathan H. Saunders)
Newsgroups: rec.music.industrial
Subject: Re: Beatnigs question
Date: 29 Dec 92 00:53:59 GMT
 <TaoHwB2w165w@cyberden.sf.ca.us>
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
X-Posted-From: InterNews1.0b1@newshost.dartmouth.edu

In article <TaoHwB2w165w@cyberden.sf.ca.us>
flesh@cyberden.sf.ca.us writes:

> Aside from the above mentioned, and a full album, there's also the 
> soundtrack to Terminal City Ricochet, available on A.T. Records.

... which features the same version of "Television" that appears on the
full album.  _TCR_ is a good sampler, it and _Oops Wrong Stereotype_
(another Alternative Tentacles sampler) got me listening to Beatnigs
and NoMeansNo.  But don't buy it just for the Beatnigs.  Better to buy
the Beatnigs' self-titled CD.  It's really good, and it includes the
"Television" 12".

Later,

 - nathan
Newsgroups: rec.music.industrial
Subject: Madonna
From: R.J.Patel@massey.ac.nz (R. Patel)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 92 20:41:17 GMT
Organization: Massey University, Palmerston North, New Zealand
Summary: Madonna
X-Reader: NETNEWS/PC Version 2c


I just read that on Madonnas latest album the instrumentation was
churned out almost entirely using keyboards.

Surely this makes her more industrial than many of the bands discussed
in this newsgroup (Ministry, NIN, Godflesh etc).

Anyway heres hoping this moves the pretentious bullshit dial away from
critical on this newsgroup.

Oh yeah, on a more serious note what do Cop Shoot Cop and Therapy? sound
like ?

Raj.
Newsgroups: rec.music.industrial
From: df@sdf.lonestar.org (daniel finster)
Subject: Throbbing Gristle lyrics?
Organization: Best lil' ol' Pubnix in Texas
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 08:22:36 GMT


  Does anyone have the lyrics to various TG songs? .. if so, i would appreciate
you mailing them to me, especially _Six Six Sixties_, _Hamburger Lady_ 
_E. Coli_ _Subhuman_ and _United_.  Thanks in advance for whatever you can    
mail me.

-- 
daniel finster   df@sdf.lonestar.org  ...!seas.smu.edu!letni!sdf!df
Newsgroups: rec.music.industrial
From: weitzman@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (Adam J. Weitzman)
Subject: Re: Carl Stone, Holger Czukay & Front 242
Organization: Brandeis University
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 14:19:03 GMT

In article <BzM5s5.4yv@emu.com> rickk@emu.com (Rick Kleffel) writes:
>And finally, here's my 2 cents worth on Front 242..."No, sir, don't like
>'em.  Don't like 'em at all."  I have the CD with "Quite Unusual" on it,
>and find each and every instance of Bill Leeb's singing makes me wish he would
>just shut up.  Otherwise, the music is OK, but nothing to write home about.
>I had also bought the "Tyranny For You" single which was so bad it went right
>back to the shop where it strayed from.  Their musicians are occasionally
>OK, but never inspired, and Bill Leeb seems to annihilate whatever appeal they
>might have for me.  But...
>
>How does FLA sound in comparison?  Does Leeb sing and destroy for them as well?

Um, Bill Leeb does not sing for Front 242. Jean-Luc DeMeyer does (and 
occasionally Richard 23). Based on your past reviews, I could have told you
you wouldn't like F242. You should have asked! Save yourself some dough. :-) 
As for FLA, well, Bill Leeb *does* sing for them, and as much as I like F242 
(fanatic level, basically), I just can't get into FLA nearly as much. It 
seems, well, more *boring* for the most part. I guess if you like the 
Cyberactif single that you mentioned ("Temper"), then that's generally
Bill Leeb's voice (if I recall correctly), so you might like his FLA stuff
if you can imagine less-interesting-than-F242 music with more-tolerable
(to you, anyways) singing. Don't waste any more of your money on F242,
though, because you just won't dig it.

-- 
					- Adam J Weitzman
					  weitzman@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu
"All our life is spent in this permanent brainwashed contempt."
	- Meat Beat Manifesto
Newsgroups: rec.music.industrial
From: thf@sizone.uucp (Jason Kalra)
Subject: Re: .
Organization: Sonic Interzone, Atonal Hoodlum Subversion, TO Ont. 416-276-0552
Date: 22 Dec 92 17:03:59 GMT

To: thf
Subject: Re: .
From: thf@sizone.UUCP (Jason Kalra)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 12:00:36 EST
Organization: Sonic Interzone, Atonal Hoodlum Subversion, TO Ont. 416-276-0552
From: sizone!thf@ee.ryerson.ca (Jason Kalra)
Newsgroups: rec.music.industrial
Subject: .
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 11:41:19 EST
Distribution: world
Organization: Sonic Interzone, Atonal Hoodlum Subversion, TO Ont. 416-276-0552

  I've been looking for Fixed as of late, but haven't had any luck.. does 
anyone in the Toronto area know where it can be found?

Jason Kalra - Sonic Interzone BBS, Toronto
Inet: thf%sizone@ee.ryerson.ca

Bert: Ernie? Where are you? I miss you.

Ernie: Go shove your pointy head up your ass, Bert.
From: Dan.LaValley@f99.n121.z1.fidonet.org (Dan LaValley)
Newsgroups: rec.music.industrial
Subject: NIN:  Happiness In Slavery Video
Date: 23 Dec 92 04:27:36 GMT


        This information was taken from MUSICIAN, January 1993 from on article which detailed an interview with Trent Reznor- "Driving Nine Inch Nails."
        The video shows a naked man strapped to a torture machine being systematically dismembered.  Nice close ups of metal claws tearing his nipples and testicles.  
        Said Reznor:  "It's extreme, but if I saw that I'd say, "Yeah!' It doesn't stop even at the point of good taste.  It goes over.  When you saw Madonna's 'Erotica' video you were let down.  After all that [hype], when I saw her Sex book, I wanted to see come shots, I wanted to see bestiality."  ... Reznor smiles, sighs and looks up.
        In the same article Reznor talked about not wanting to ever have the phenomenon of having been "played too much" to happen to him, and is one of the reasons for the extremity of the video (MTV will never play it) and also possibly to test the sincerity of Interscope records.  
        Do with it what ye' will!  :)
        -Dan


 * Origin: NineJackNine (1:121/99)
Newsgroups: rec.music.industrial
From: locklin@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Scott Locklin )
Subject: Children Threw Rocks at The Gods
Organization: Campus Crusade for Cthulhu
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 20:17:19 GMT
X-Posted-From: titan.ucc.umass.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

A loooong time ago, I heard this track played by the local college station.
It was a sort-of ambient Trance like piece with tape loops layered on on top
of the other as the piece progressed.
It was called "Children Threw Rocks at The Gods" and it was by "Children Threw
Rocks at the Gods"

If anyone could give me some info on this...

-Lupo
From: peter@zone4.ocunix.on.ca (Peter Dubiel)
Newsgroups: rec.music.industrial
Distribution: world
Subject: z()\/|eT  (*  Fr/\nCe
Organization: Zone4
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 92 04:39:39 GMT

Hello...

I just picked up my first Zoviet France album, after hearing snippets of 
ZF being played at a local record store... I bought _Vienna 1990_ on CD and
think it makes for some very unique nighttime listening, which is the only
time that I listen to the thing (makes sense, I suppose).

How does the Zoviets' other work compare to this? More melodic, more ambient,
more abstract, noisier, quieter, more structured, less structured, ANYTHING?

Also, I hear something about a 4 hour DAT tape by Zoviet France released on
Staalplaat... Any idea (since I don't have a DAT player and can't afford one)
if it will be released in any other format? If not, would anyone out there
who has it be willing to make me a copy (I would pay for shipping and tapes,
of course)?

Any recommendations as to which ZF albums to buy next? As far as this type of
music goes, my tastes run along the lines of Current 93, Tangerine Dream's
early experimental stuff (like "Electronic Meditation" and "Zeit"), some
but not all Einsu"rzende Neubauten, etc. I like ambient and rhythmic stuff
more than disjointed noise collages...

Thanks...


     _/\     /\__Piotr F. Dubiel___peter@zone4.ocunix.on.ca__/\     /\_
        \_/\/                                                  \/\_/
Newsgroups: rec.music.industrial
From: thoth@uiuc.edu (Ben Cox)
Subject: Re: Ministry review, SF
Originator: ben@ipoint
Reply-To: thoth@uiuc.edu (Ben Cox)
Organization: Ancient Illuminated Sears of Bavaria
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 04:36:45 GMT

an2531@anon.penet.fi (/dev/high) writes:

>Now, the part of the nite that very nearly ruined my whole
>high - the break between Helmet and Ministry was filled with
>Hank Williams Sr. Straight, nothing else, loud, twangy, music
>to commit suicide by. It was the worst experience ever. Has
>anyone else had this happen with this tour? The crowd was

Ah, they did this at Lollapalooza Two, too. :)

--
Ben Cox
thoth@uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.industrial
From: jani.patokallio%acc1bbs@ssr.com (Jani Patokallio) 
Newsgroups: rec.music.industrial
Subject: Neu Hunting
Date: 25 Dec 92 16:06:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Advanced Computer Concepts BBS, New Rochelle, NY 914-654-1981
Reply-To: jani.patokallio%acc1bbs@ssr.com (Jani Patokallio) 

I typed this yesterday, but my mail reader decided it didn't like it
so I'm typing it again.  Whee.  Anyway...

A month or two ago, I posted a request for Einstuerzende Neubauten
recommendations.  I got lots of mail and replies (thanks everyone!),
and decided on _Haus der Luge_ as first choice and _Halber Mensch_ 2nd.
So, last week, I walked into Tower and go to the E's.  I found a "EINSTURZEN
NUBATEN" divider and next to it one (1) ugly yellow Hamletsomething CD,
and nothing else.  Excursions to Musicland and Sam Goody come up completely
emptyhanded, and a voyage to Manhattan was wasted when I found out that
Record Hunter had gone bankrupt.

So, where can can I get it?  Are there are any stores in White Plains/Yonkers
or Manhattan where I could get 'em?  Failing that, any mail order stores?
And as a last resort, how much would getting it from the record company
(whatever it is) cost?

I'm also hunting for Laibach's _Nova Akropola_, I got _Kapital_ at the
Tower trip and was intrigued...  Is _NA_ at all similar to tracks like
"Hymn to the Black Sun", "Hunter's Funeral March", or "Sponsored by Mars"?

Thanks to everybody willing to help someone used to finding his music
easily...

--
Jani Patokallio                  |  "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance,
acc1bbs!jani.patokallio@ssr.com  |   baffle 'em with bullshit." -Anonymous

---
 . AME 1.07 . 
                                 
Newsgroups: rec.music.industrial
From: thoth@uiuc.edu (Ben Cox)
Subject: RMI CD Update
Originator: ben@ipoint
Reply-To: thoth@uiuc.edu (Ben Cox)
Organization: Ancient Illuminated Sears of Bavaria
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 04:50:32 GMT

The CDs are supposedly on their way to me.  They were supposed to have
been here last week (so I could mail them this week), but they aren't
here yet.  I'll post here when they arrive.

Please bear in mind that when they get here, I have to actually sit
down and package them up and address them, etc.  I'll try to work
quickly but I'm only human...

Sorry they weren't here in time for Christmas; I know several of you
had hoped they would be.

--
Ben Cox
thoth@uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.industrial
From: thf@sizone.uucp (Jason Kalra)
Subject: Re: Ministry/Sepultura/Helmet concert in Vancouver
Organization: Sonic Interzone, Atonal Hoodlum Subversion, TO Ont. 416-276-0552
Date: 22 Dec 92 17:03:47 GMT

To: thf
Subject: Re: Ministry/Sepultura/Helmet concert in Vancouver
From: thf@sizone.UUCP (Jason Kalra)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 12:00:47 EST
Organization: Sonic Interzone, Atonal Hoodlum Subversion, TO Ont. 416-276-0552
From: sizone!thf@ee.ryerson.ca (Jason Kalra)
Newsgroups: rec.music.industrial
Subject: Re: Ministry/Sepultura/Helmet concert in Vancouver
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 11:54:16 EST
Distribution: world
Organization: Sonic Interzone, Atonal Hoodlum Subversion, TO Ont. 416-276-0552

goater@fraser.sfu.ca (Rosemary Lyn Goater) writes:

> 
> I'm posting just to rave for a second about the concert last
> night.  Hadn't even heard of Sepultura (sp?) before, but I
> came away loving them.  Real heavy.  Kinda european sounding
> I guess (where are they from - I thought I heard them mumble
> something about Brazil before the show started?).  Anyways,
> great show.  My only complaint was Ministry could've played
> longer (the whole show was 3 hours).  But hey, how long could
> _anyone_ scream like that before inflicting permanent damage?!
> 
> 
... Really.  I wasn't terribly fond of Sepeltura (which shall herein be 
dubbed "Spatula", since it's much easier to spell, and both seem to have 
the same musical potential) when they played here in Toronto.  Like 
yourself, I hadn't heard them before (maybe I had - but wasn't aware of 
the group), so I was expecting something.... interesting, I suppose.  A 
few may be amused at the following comment, seeing as how I'm fond of 
Ministry, but they sounded like Metallica on speed.  The same riffs, over 
and over, with a few timely "fucks" thrown in.  Perhaps in the future 
(hopefully) my opinion shall change.  As for the whole lineup.. well, 
Helmet through a hilarious tantrum in the middle of a song. Oh! 
  Ministry was great.  Perhaps it had something to do with who they 
succeded, but I suppose it doesn't really matter.  The pseudo-video show 
was lacking, though.  (but it's just an opinion, of course).


Jason Kalra - Sonic Interzone BBS, Toronto
Inet: thf%sizone@ee.ryerson.ca

Bert: Ernie? Where are you? I miss you.

Ernie: Go shove your pointy head up your ass, Bert.
From: vidarh@cs.uit.no (Vidar Hanssen)
Newsgroups: rec.music.industrial
Subject: screaming in NIN "Fixed"
Date: 21 Dec 92 13:43:27 GMT
Organization: University of Tromsoe, Norway


|> >It sounds like an excerpt from the larger sample in track six with the guy
|> >screaming (soft buzzing...girl whispers "he's dead").  Where is that one from?
|> >Gives me the creeps....
|> as for the stuff in track six...
|> i don't think that's a sample, but rather an original track. in the
|> insert it says, for track six, 'pain courtesy of...' or something like that.
|> i think they actually recorded that person screaming in the studio.
|> could be wrong though.

Maybe it's from the video for Happiness In Slavery. According to NME, it's
supposed to feature a famous US S&M guy tied to a machine with an arm does
various torturing, like cutting etc. It was, of course not allowed to be shown
or sold in the UK. But the article said it *was* legal in the US. Has anyone
seen it?

If anyone's interested, I could dig up the article and type it in...

BTW, I find Broken *much* better than Fixed, even if I normally don't like
that kind of music (Ministry-ish trash-industrial).

Bye,
Vidar
-- 
     __  __
     \ \/ /          ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////
      \  /          // Vidar Hanssen  University Of Tromsoe, Norway ///////
       \/          // Email: vidarh@cs.uit.no  Phone: +47 83 44032 ///////
control, I'm here ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////
From: xorcist@cyberden.sf.ca.us
Newsgroups: rec.music.industrial
Subject: Re: Ministry review, SF
Date: Fri, 01 Jan 93 13:56:55 PST
Reply-To: xorcist@cyberden.sf.ca.us
Organization: Indescribable Creations

bkeeley@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (Brian Keeley) writes:

> In article <1992Dec31.005552.11416@fuug.fi> an2531@anon.penet.fi (/dev/high)
> >
> >X-Anon-To:rec.music.industrial
> >
> >Now, the part of the nite that very nearly ruined my whole
> >high - the break between Helmet and Ministry was filled with
> >Hank Williams Sr. Straight, nothing else, loud, twangy, music
> >to commit suicide by. It was the worst experience ever. Has
>
> ...and xorcist chimed in with:
>
> >No I will NOT buy their new country & western hick album
> >No I will NOT play the harmonica on stage
> >No I will NOT wear the latest in western apparel
>
> BRILLIANT!  Let the alienation of the fan-base begin!! Al has tacked
> back over his "fans" more times than most.  I'm starting to believe
> Al when he says his musical genre is "aggro" -- shake-n-bake,
> channel-surfing, postmodern smorgasborg.  If Buck Satan & the 666
> Shooters (which I was under the impression is not yet recorded)
> sounds like nothing AL has yet done (perhaps other than the "dualing
> banjos" lick of the "Beers, Steers, & Queers" remixes), then I for
> one will be pleased.

I've always hated Jesus Built My Hotrod..... too "Dang twiddle piddle" for me...
But that's just me... I know by the dance floor (slam floor) that's it's quite
popular... BS&Q (RevCo) is a bit harder and doesn't even sound anything like
C&W... Sure... there's a few YEEEEEEHHHAAAAWWSSSSS's in it, but I also love
La Muerte, especially, ANGEL, which sounds like an eerie night on the dusty
plains with satanic Indians...
<X>orcist

__________________________________________________________________________
   |       /         |\
   | H E   \ Y B E R |/ E N            [ xorcist@cyberden.sf.ca.us ]
Newsgroups: rec.music.industrial
From: mwlucas@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Michael W. Lucas)
Subject: Re: Carl Stone, Holger Czukay & Front 242
Organization: Oakland University, Rochester MI.
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 13:09:41 GMT



Uh, sorry, try again...

Bill Leeb does *not* sing for F242.  I believe that Richard 23 does F242's
vocals.  And he probably has a much better singing voice (undistorted) than
Leeb.


-- 
"No, no, no!  Slash _parallel_ to your arm, not across!"
	-Leck's Suicide Hotline (from Ivan Brunetti's _Misery Loves Comedy_)
		mwlucas@vela.acs.oakland.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.industrial
From: mason@netcom.com (Mason Jones)
Subject: Re: Starting a record label
Organization: Charnel House
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 08:56:12 GMT

rdna@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Paul Paukstelis) writes:
: I'm starting a record label. Its not strictly industrial because it is
: in conjunction with other local bands. Right now i'm looking for places
: to press 7"s. Anyone have any numbers/prices for such locations? I
: would appreciate this info. I've also heard there is someone who presses
: flexies (the little-record type things like in Keyboard) pretty cheap.
: Any info on this would be greatly helpful. Thanks.

The best place around to get 7"s pressed at is Alberti Record
Manufacturing Co.  Call them at (818) 282-5181 and have them send
you their price info.  They do colored vinyl, special effects,
complete packages, just the vinyl, etc etc.  Very good job, their
mastering is never disappointing.  I've used them several times,
and have been pretty satisfied.  The only possible disadvantage to
them is that they're not very quick because they're always busy, but
I don't consider that a big deal.


<====================================================================>
   Mason Jones               Charnel House Productions
   mason@netcom.com          P.O. Box 170277, San Francisco, CA
                             94117-0277    Phone/fax (415) 255-8554
<====================================================================>