HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: laura@hoptoad.uucp (Laura Creighton)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Colorado's Amendment 2
Date: 8 Nov 92 13:18:07 GMT
Reply-To: laura@hoptoad.UUCP (Laura Creighton)
Organization: Nebula Consultants in San Francisco

In article <1992Nov5.021230.29953@macc.wisc.edu> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>
>In article <mattm-041192131417@mcmelmon.apple.com>
>mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon) writes:
>
>>In article <1992Nov4.185406.3267@tc.cornell.edu>,
>>shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore) wrote:
>
>>>[...]
>
>>Translation: "Sorry if it puts you out of a job, but my
>>principles have been offended.  And besides, I don't work
>>for a living, I think."
>
>Heil Himmelmac, the antipode: "I work for a living; I don't think."
>
>-- 
>Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
>Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
>NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
>Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888


What the hell is this?  Let's not buy H/P products, built and
sold by our Gaypeople friends, because they coldn't overcome those
jerks who want (and have) taken away  their rights.

These days it is tough enough to be a Gayperson.  Let's now get her or
him unemployed as a salute to political correctness.  Fun fun fun --
lets burn each other while the country goes to hell.

-- 
    Since Ryan White was buried in April 1990, his grave has been vandalized
    *more than* four times.

    (this news courtesy Phil Paxton ipwp400@indycms.bitnet)

Laura Creighton 
toad@toad.com
hoptoad!laura
From: thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Congratulations!!
Keywords: US election
Date: 6 Nov 92 22:48:20 GMT
Article-I.D.: cwis.thaaang.721090100
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha

richard@Apple.COM (a flying squirrel) writes:

>Patrick Raffin's .sig:

>>  __       Just a French tourist,
>>  \/       doesn't speak English, nor Unix

>Ce n'est pas grave.  Ils sont presque la meme chose.

Foh foh le foh foh le-foh! Rrrr! RRRRRRRRR!!! Le le le le le foh
rrrrrr foh rrrrr. *slap!*

--
John Dorrance        * Sexyfunky Motherfuckerdiva *   thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu

		I bet if you threw that ass into the air
			It'd turn into sunshine!
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: chuck@fourier.ssd.kodak.com (Charles S. Collins 726-9461)
Subject: Re: Pat Robertson
Organization: Eastman Kodak
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 17:07:03 GMT

In article <1992Nov5.231552.4921@informix.com> cgross@.informix.com (Cary Gross) writes:
>Last night as I was flipping through the channels (having just moved here
>from San Francisco I havent't memorized the stations yet) I came across
>Presdident-Elect Clinton speaking.  I found his speech interesting, but
>was taken back when the speech was over and Pat and his "friends" were
>analyzing the speech.  It was very upsetting to here them talk about how
>the lost out in Oregon and won in Colorado.  I got even angrier when it
>came to the abortion issues in various states.  He basically said that 
>America has spoken and that it sanctions the murder of innocent babies.  He
>is right, our country was found on the majority rules, but he wasn't willing
>to accept that.   This of course led into a prayer session, where he was 
>praying for the moral salvation of this country.  That his group should
>bind together and get the Republican party back in power.
>
>I cannot understand how anyone can truly call themselves a christian, yet 
>be full of so much hate.  I do not need anyone else to tell me how good or
>bad my life is.  I have only two people to answer to and that is myself and
>God.  IMHO the same applies to any person and there right to choose what is
>best for them.

It seems to me that an antidote for this quasi-christian hate would be a
strong statement from those Christians who are supportive of g/l/b persons.

As a Presbyterian, I am angry that my denomination is silent on issues
such as hate-crime legislation, civil rights legislation, anti-gay referenda,
etc.  In 1978, the same year that the Presbyterian General Assembly declared
that it was inappropriate to ordain open, self-affirming g/l/b people, they
also exhorted congregations to work to end anti-gay discrimination.  And yet 
the effort expended by the denomination has been next-to-nothing.

I urge any of you who are members of churches who profess to seek justice for
ALL people to hold your church leadership accountable.  If the christian
coalition is successful, much of the blame will fall on the so-called mainline
denominations.
-- 
Chuck Collins				Product Software Engineering
chuck@pixel.kodak.com			Eastman Kodak Company
(716)726-9461				901 Elmgrove Road
					Rochester, NY  14653-5811
From: ssturgis@netcom.com (Scott Sturgis)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Melrose Place
Date: 8 Nov 92 17:45:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: netcom.1992Nov8.174500.7121
Distribution: soc.motss
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

>>
>>Did any else catch the reference to OR-2 and CO-9 in last nights
>>episode of Melrose Place?
>
>Yeah!  Ry & I were sitting at home watching the tube, and we heard Matt's 
>lawyer come out with that!  We both sat there and said "All RIGHT!"

Thought you guys might like to see this:

In a Letter to the Gay & Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation (GLADD/LA)
Doug Savant Writes:

"A quick note to tell you how happy I am to receive your letter of
support. Thank you.

I am just now beginning to understand how important it will be to gay
teens everywhere to have a positive role model to identify with. How
necessary it is to the gay community at large to have an honest, open and
diginified representation of a "not easily labeled" gay man on television,
as opposed to sterotypic, easily dismissed, campy-characters that have
been the standard characterization of the gay community. Please don't get
me wron - I love good camp - but these characters are sometimes dismissed
with a laugh for lack of identifications as everymen. Finally, I think
this character could have a positive impact on the straight viewing
audience as well. For if someone doesn't already have an ongoing
relationship with an openly gay man, they can be exposed to Matt and
hopefully begin to have the requisite compassion and understanding needed
to obliterate the insidious evil that is homophobia.

Thanks again Shawn. Your support is greatly appreciated.

Sincerely, Doug Savant - "Melrose Place"

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
I might add that there is also a REAL cute picture of him next to the
letter as well! <G>
Xref: sparky soc.motss:47453 alt.politics.homosexuality:7183
From: solovay@netcom.com (Andrew M. Solovay)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: Letter from OCA post-election: real or hoax?
Summary: ends and means
Date: 13 Nov 92 22:59:24 GMT
Organization: International Irony League -- Death before smileys!

In article <1992Nov13.153622.10267@spdcc.com> rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:
>	I would have no problem seeing it printed in pro-GBLO* things
>with ellipses placed in strategic locations.  After all those-who-hate
>have no problem twisting our words...

They also have no problem with beating us up with clubs. Would
that make it right for us to do it to them?

I, for one, prefer to hold myself to a higher standard.
-- 
Andrew Michael Solovay    

"We know that Solovay is a misogynist and an idiot..."
		--Melinda Shore
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas)
Subject: Re: Okay, what makes a Gay or Lesbian turn Republican?
Organization: Gordian; Costa Mesa, CA
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 19:07:00 GMT

In article <1992Nov8.065439.18585@spdcc.com>, dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
> AIDS first appeared on Reagan's watch, and the government's
> response to this widening epidemic was simply a reflection of the Party's
> "I've got mine" attitude.  There's no surprise there, really.  You could
> go on and on with similar stories, none of which need to have directly
> to do with lesbian and gay people, but which should concern people of
> any persuasion.

  You really think that the republicans indifference is born out of
"I've got mine"? Not moral repugnance? 
  You can be disgusted at their morality (as I am) which is largely
religious, but to say that isn't the root is rather naive. Really,
I'm sure you can come up with a better example of the "I've got mine"
syndrome than this. 
-- 

		Michael Thomas	(mike@gordian.com)
	"I don't think Bambi Eyes will get you that flame thrower..."  
		-- Hobbes to Calvin
		USnail: 20361 Irvine Ave Santa Ana Heights, Ca,	92707-5637
		PaBell: (714) 850-0205 (714) 850-0533 (fax)
From: hillyard@msc.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: How Many Homosexuals?
Date: 9 Nov 92 19:54:43 GMT
Article-I.D.: msc.1992Nov9.195443.28027
Reply-To: hillyard@msc.cornell.edu
Organization: Cornell-Materials-Science-Center
Originator: hillyard@tiger.msc.cornell.edu

From article <101135@bu.edu>, by kane@buast7.bu.edu (Hot Young Star):
> In article <13085@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
> 
>>The 3.3% figure for male homosexuals and bisexuals used by Masters, 
>>Johnson, & Kolodny looks more and more plausible.
> 
> Try this on for size---a French survey which betrayed underreporting:
> 
> While only 4% of a sample of over 10,000 French men admitted to engaging
> in gay sex at least once, a whopping 30% (NOT KIDDING!) identified passive
> anal intercourse as a sexual activity in which they had participated.
> The corresponding figures for the women were 2% and 20%, so not all of
> this passive anal intercourse was women fingering men's anuses. There are,
> conservatively, 10% of men who remain "unaccounted".

I don't see how you can draw that conclusion, since you gave number of
people who have done it rather than frequency.

Example.  Four people. Two men and two women.  One of the women likes fingering
men's anuses the other doesn't.  Each man has sex with both women and vice 
versa.

% who have engaged in passive anal intercourse:  men 100% women 50%.

SEH

> 
> Conclusion: people LIE big time about homosexuality.
From: danny.ingram@business.gatech.edu (Danny Ingram)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Boycott official?
Date: 10 Nov 92 17:58:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: hydra.74330
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

There are a lot of voices talking about a boycott of Colorado.  Are there any
GLB organizations who have officially called for a boycott?  I produced an 
article for a local GLB publication about the proposed boycott, but now I'm
getting my ass chewed by my editor because it seems no organizations have 
called for an official boycott.  How can there be a boycott if no one calls 
for one?  I really need some help on this one, particularly since my deadline 
was yesterday!  If anyone knows of even one GLB group who has officially 
called for a boycott please let me know asap.

                                     Thanks, 
                                    Danny Ingram
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jcagle@marakesh.cary.ibm.com
Subject: Re: COLORADO CALLING! Here's what you can do (PLEASE!)
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 92 19:45:30 GMT
News-Software: IBM OS/2 PM RN (NR/2) v0.14i by O. Vishnepolsky and R. Rogers
Reply-To: jcagle@vnet.ibm.com
Organization: IBM PRGS - Cary, NC


Another number to call (courtesy of Neil Abernethy):

Colorado Chamber of Commerce     (303) 892-1112


Jay
    jcagle@vnet.ibm.com

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rodney@cub.math.oxy.edu. (Rodney Hoffman)
Subject: Who funded Colorado's bigots?
Organization: Occidental College, Los Angeles, CA.  USA
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 19:15:48 GMT


If anyone in Colorado sees any election finance reports, I would dearly love to  
learn who provided funds to the Yes On 2 campaign.  Any corporations?  What are  
their products?

I know the largest class of supporters, I believe: the religious right, and I'm  
already boycotting and fighting them everywhere I can.  I want to find out  
about the others.

  -- Rodney Hoffman
     rodney@oxy.edu
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Gerbiling and acceptance of other peoples' info. !!
Date: 9 Nov 92 11:37:58 GMT
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison


In article <1992Nov07.232018.18198@microsoft.com>
frankm@microsoft.com (Frank R.A.J.  Maloney) writes:

>In article <1992Nov4.185137.13036@macc.wisc.edu>
>anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:

>>>That's a horse of a different color.

>>Although she herself, speaking French, would have said
>>that's another pair of sleeves.

>What, was she fisting the horse then too?

Son, you have rot where the mind should be. :-)

>And, btw, what would she have said in German, having once
>been a minor German princess herself?

Keine Ahnung.  Maybe: Euuuwww, mein Arm ist beschissen!

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
<>  <>  <> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <>  <>  <>
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: glenns@tronsbox.xei.com (Glenn S.)
Subject: Re: GayCom (was: The Gay & Lesbian BBS List -- November 1992)
Organization: Xanadu Enterprises Inc.
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 19:44:00 GMT

In article <1992Nov10.205225.18840@pbs.org> sdonahue@pbs.org (Susan Donahue (10,000 Maniacs minus 1)) writes:
>	Wrong, bunky....GLIB...Washington DC Metro area Gay/Lesbian BBS has
>	a lot of women on it too....and although dissing occurs, it is rare
>	and more often in good fun....

Then GayCom has changed a lot in the past 6 months.  The only stuff I ever 
saw on GayCom was basically "Oh, don't bother meeting so-in-so, he's a
real sleazeball," and "Heh.. he *says* he has 9 inches... maybe from his 
butt..." et cetera.  

>	There are chat lines and a specific chat for women...Lesbians on Line.
>
Never saw any of the lesbian chat areas.  Then again, up here in the sticks
of Metropolitan NJ, the lesbian BBSer is rare & hard to find.
(at least on the gay boards up here anywho.)

>	I'm not saying that the things you cite are not good....just think
>	I should put in a plug for GLIB.....glib.org on internet...
>	703-578-4542 for unregistered users.
>	
And I was never blasting GLIB.  I was blasting GayCom in general.
 
B*B
Glenn


-- 
+-----------------------------------+---------------------------------------+
| Bright Blessings from Glenn Sieb! | glenns@tronsbox.xei.com       Internet|
| Eye of Newt, Toe of Frog and a    | Glenn Sieb  1:107/869          FIDOnet|
| side of fries    ... please!      | Glenn Sieb  93:9400/5           PODnet|
+-----------------------------------+---------------------------------------+
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Short Film - "Drawing the Line"
Date: 7 Nov 92 09:31:28 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Nov7.093128.3020
Reply-To: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

The Northwest Film and Video Center is just now having their annual
juried show of local independent film makers. So I went to see their
main program (general program of short films), and was pleased to find
two motss-relevant shorts (which I suspect most readers here will
never get the chance to see - there's not much of a market for
independent short films, is there?)

The first was a film by Katherine Li of Vancouver, BC, titled
"Sabina". The blurb says "5000 drawings come to life in this quiet,
but spectacularly liquid piece of animation based upon a poem by Anais
Nin. (7 mins)." 

It's an impressionistic rendering of a romantic phone call between two
people. One person moves through the telephone wires and melds with
the other in various romantic and beautiful ways. The genders of the
people were fairly ambiguous, but it seemed to me to be two women

The other motss-relevant short was "Drawing the Line", by Lorna
Borschman of Vancouver, BC. "A documentation of a photo exhibition of
the same name by Kiss & Tell, a group of lesbian artists, in which
spectators/participants/voyeurs were invited to write comments on the
walls about images depicting a range of sexual practices between
women. Chock full of comments on the most debated aspects of erotica,
Boschman's "Drawing the Line" effectively captures a pulse-taking art
event. (7 1/2 mins).

I wish I'd seen the original exhibit. The photographs ranged from very
mild (clothed women holding each other in the woods), through
explicitly sexual (naked humping women), to challenging images of S/M
sex (a tied and blindfolded woman, some vaginal fisting, ...) The
movie did its best to give us voyeuristic glimpses of the pictures,
along with lingering views of what people had written next to the
photographs and a few small interviews. Did anyone see the original
art installation? What was it like?

The crowd reaction to the two movies was interesting. The first film
was very innocuous - a lot of people cooed over how romantic it was.
The second film was downright confrontational - hardcore images of
women fucking, in numerous wonderous ways, right there on the screen.
You could taste the tension in the (mostly straight) crowd..
                __
nelson@reed.edu \/       Before the cream sits out too long, you must whip it
Xref: sparky soc.motss:47423 alt.politics.homosexuality:7172
From: levin@bbn.com (Joel B Levin)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: A Strand of Bigotry
Followup-To: alt.politics.homosexuality
Date: 13 Nov 1992 20:48:20 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com

Mr. Lawrence in <1992Nov13.175017.12469@oracle.us.oracle.com> writes:

|For far too long, people on this group having been taking
|this Gary Strand character more seriously than he deserves.
|He has repeatedly claimed that he has the right to practice
|bigotry.  
  [etc.]

Strand has been a hard case for some years on soc.women, since back
when I was reading it.  My suggestion: if you can't persuade him out
of soc.motss, ignore him.

	/J
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: What Gay Sex (was Re: How Many Homosexuals?)
From: hsu@walnut.sfsu.edu (William Hsu)
Date: 13 Nov 92 10:23:23 PST
Reply-To: hsu@walnut.sfsu.edu
Distribution: world

In article <1e0n4vINNdgp@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>  writes:
> 
> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
> >  If we say sex between two people of the same gender is gay
> >  sex, we've skipped over a lot of gender questions and we've
> >  skipped over bisexuals pretty noticeably too, haven't we?
> >  We've also skipped the people who identify themselves as gay
> >  (or bisexual or even straight) who don't have *any* sex,
> >  including people who've *never* had sex.
> 
> I'd say you're approaching the issue from the wrong direction. 
> Sexuality is better defined by whom you desire than what you do. 
> Regardless of whom you have sex with and whether or not you 
> actually have sex at all, if you _want_ to have sex with motss, 
> you're gay; if you _want_ to have sex with motss and motos, 
> you're bisexual; etc.

You're using similar simplifications that you accuse Jess of later in
your article. Using the biological sex of the partners to categorize
sexual activity, one can argue, is no less arbitrary than using, say,
the amount of hair on their heads. There are people who like to have
sex with skinheads, and people who do not. People who enjoy sex with
skinheads and non-skinheads are, ummm, bifollical. To some people,
whether a partner has hair may be more important than the sex of
the partner.

Bill, who's not really fixated on the issue of hair, believe me
From: hsu@walnut.sfsu.edu (William Hsu)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Skin-heads
Date: 10 Nov 92 22:23:53 GMT
Article-I.D.: nic.1992Nov10.142355.3132
Reply-To: hsu@walnut.sfsu.edu
Distribution: world


Naturally I couldn't resist replying to this message...

Martin Prime (hi Martin!):
> A question - why do I find the skin-head look so sexy?
> Maybe it is just the idea of tieing them up and beating shit out of
> them, in a pure and loving way of course ;^}

While I would hardly deny the attraction of the skinhead look for me,
I don't associate it with Nazis (unless said shaved heads have big
swastikas tattooed across them etc). The skinhead look originated
in British working-class fashion of the '60s. I'd seen pictures of
"traditional" non-Nazi skins and non-racist skins in the early
hardcore movement before I knew the look was becoming popular among
neo-Nazi youth. The first skinheads I met and spent any time with
were not racists (I'm Chinese, so I would know, I think :-)). (And
yes, some of them were very sexy.)

Bill, who got his head shaved the day before the temperatures dropped,
  brrrrrrr...
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality,co.politics
From: ckincy@mcs213j.cs.umr.edu (Charles Kincy)
Subject: Re: Colorado Amendment 2: The First Fatality
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1992 02:51:12 GMT
Organization: University of Missouri - Rolla

In article <1992Nov13.144507.1234@ncar.ucar.edu> gary@isis.cgd.ucar.edu (Gary Strand) writes:
>ck> Charles Kincy
>gs> Gary Strand
>
>ck> But, unfortunately, a few people cannot handle the responsibility of this
>    privilege. 

gs>[FOA is] not a "privilege", it's a right. And, if it's only a "few people", 
>why punish the rest of us along with them?

Even if it is a "right" (which it is not when you are offering employ-
ment or public services), you still do not have the right to abuse
others with that right.

For example, I have the right to keep and bear arms, under the Second
Amendment.  If I use this right to shoot you, for instance, I have
abused that right.  The result is that I am convicted of a felony,
and I lose the right to bear arms.

Many people have abused their Second Amendment rights.  This has resulted
in restrictions on people's right to bear arms.  However, in the main,
the freedom to bear arms still exists.

Now, it doesn't take too much wit to apply this analogy to FOA.  Because
many people abused their FOA rights ("we don't serve niggas" "we won't
hire you if you're a faggot" "sorry, but cripples aren't allowed here"),
restrictions are placed on them.  That is, you can't use FOA when you
hire people or offer public services.  However, most of your FOA
is still preserved.  

Why is this so difficult for you to understand?

>ck> So, we have to create "protected minorities" in order to keep people from
>    being steamrolled by those who abuse their FOA privs.  I don't like it any
>    more than you do, but it's necessary.
>
>  Is it, *really*? Is it worth the tension created between the non-protected
>  groups and the "protected" groups? Also, there's a difference between David
>  Duke (say) and myself, but to anti-FOA legislation, we're exactly the same.
>  Why should *I* be punished for *his* moral beliefs?

Why should *I* be not allowed to carry a concealed firearm in a 
shopping mall when *I* have never shot nor killed anyone?

>ck> Most teens commit suicide due to extreme emotional trauma.  
>
>  "Extreme" from their point of view, let's remember. Teens commit suicide for
>  reasons that others don't even consider worth a single sniffle.

Let me guess, you were born 21 years old, and never were a teenager.

>ck> If you were an emotionally troubled teen, faced with sure and certain per-
>    secution for the rest of your life, suicide would be an attractive alter-
>    native.
>
>  I wouldn't call persecution for being gay "sure and certain".

Ok, only if they lived in Colorado or Oregon.  You win.


cpk
Xref: sparky soc.motss:47430 alt.politics.homosexuality:7175 co.politics:1968