HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hde+@cs.cmu.edu (Herbert Enderton)
Subject: Re: INL Strategy: Is Ori and Kli playable?
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 07:44:46 GMT

In article <BvqC19.29J.2@cs.cmu.edu> hill@norman.VI.RI.CMU.EDU (Robert Hill) writes:
>
>Are the orions and the kligons playable in a game versus the feds and the  
>roms?  When I mean playable, I mean it is possible to win in an otherwise  
>close game.
>
>Also, do the have to have a superior resource setup?  How superior?

Rom-Kli is probably the least balanced fight.  The Romulans have a couple
advantages:  (1) Their fresh ships will appear at Romulus and naturally fly
past Drac and Sir on their way to the front, so those planets will be
hard to bomb and reasonably safe for Rom ships to orbit.  (2) The southern
Klingon planets (Lal, Pli, Mir, Lyr) are relatively easy to attack.  The
Romulan outside planets Cap, Ind, and Reg have similar problems, but there
are only three of them instead of four, and they line up nicely.  So I'd
usually prefer Roms, but I don't think their strategic advantage is all that
large, and could be compensated for by the sorts of resource inequities
that sometimes come up even with the INL 3.0 server (e.g. if the Roms
had no fuel at the front).

Fed-Ori seems pretty well balanced, with the Feds probably being a little
better.  The lower seven Orion planets are fairly close to each other
and to the south wall, so they can be hard to bomb (or take).
One could argue that the Feds have more planets which are exposed to the north.
The Feds win because they should be able to control the Org-Ceti-Spi triangle
most of the time, and because El Nath is lonesome.  But they might get
their one or two planet lead and then stop being able to make progress,
while if the Orions get ahead they have a somewhat better chance to keep
on rolling.  If Polaris is agri-repair it's a great place for an Orion starbase.
I wouldn't be afraid to choose Orions if the resources look good.

Just my opinions of course.

  -- Red Shirt
From: kchee@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Kungnee Chee)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Request
Date: 16 Oct 92 01:21:17 GMT
Organization: The Ohio State University

Hi!
  Can someone please send me the address of the ftp site where I can find
all the Netrek hints. Thanks.
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: LA Riot -vs- GB, game stats
From: hill@norman.VI.RI.CMU.EDU (Robert Hill)
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 19:42:53 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon


I've said it before, and i'll say it again...calvin sucks.  It is has the  
WORST lag in the entire country.  I wish some other west coast server  
would open so I can play there.

I'm not sure what should be done about servers that are too lagged to play  
on.  I'd hate to steal a phrase and say 'shut up and play', but I don't  
see what more can be done.  There are really only 2 options:

1)  set some minimum lag threshold
2)  declare neutral servers known to have good lag

I like neither concept.  Anyone else have suggestions?

Incidently, I think the USC team is better than people give them credit  
for...sure the lag to calvin sucked...I could've told you that before the  
game.  It takes some guts and skill to take a clued but not skilled (due  
to lag) team down to an LPS.  I'm impressed, USC.  Keep up the good work!   
I knew crunchy, terence, holdmyown and the Calvin admiral core would win  
some games this year.

Need I say:

Terence, is that REALLY you???

Rob
aka Spaceace!
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: exodus@IASTATE.EDU 
Subject: Re: Rank
Reply-To: exodus@IASTATE.EDU
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 02:14:47 GMT





   of course a t-bird Admiral means nothing........but so does
a bronco admiral. just on t-bird it's easier too scum more often,
but scumming is scumming no matter where you do it.....it just
takes longer to build an admiral on bronco because you have to
play selectively......i've seen many clueful people rank
scumming at 3 am against a bunch of newbies.......anyone can do
it anywhere if they really want to.......that's all i was trying
to say.......



				ensign upstart
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: rjones@dsd.es.com (Ray Jones - Perp)
Subject: Re: Was AKIRA/Crippler being a butthead? You call it!!!!
Reply-To: rjones@dsd.es.com
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp.
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 92 19:38:24 GMT

In article <0eqOIWO00WAvQ_SUg8@andrew.cmu.edu>, Kevin Michael Bernatz <kb32+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 12-Oct-92 Re: Was AKIRA/Crippler
>bein.. Tom Holub@soda.berkeley. (1427)
>
>> If I wanted to take undefended planets from robots, I would go to an
>> empty server.  Why don't you do that next time, Kevin, and not ruin
>the game for people who are interested in playing it.
>
>	First, there has already been a discussion on taking 4th space
>already... I never followed it since I very seldom am forced to this
>strategy.  It *is* a legitimate tactic or it would be prevented by
>server code...it's not so don't give me this crap about it not being a
>fact.  I don't play to take undefended planets, but I do play to win. 
>When it's a 3 space galaxy (ie. one race has already been genocided) and
>I've at least made a decent attempt at genociding THEN I'll think about
>taking the independent planets.  I would note that I appologized to Ceri
>(ryche) who was upset that I was taking 3rd space... (after I genocided
>of course :>  ).

Just because it isn't prevented by the code does not make it a
legitimate tactic.  Tmode scumming is not prevented by the server code
(at least not very effectively, even on those that try), so is it a
legitimate tactic, too?  

>
>Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 12-Oct-92 Re: Was AKIRA/Crippler
>bein.. Tom Holub@soda.berkeley. (1427)
>
>> If you would never genocide them, you don't deserve the genocide.  End
>> of story.
>
>	Maybe not, but I got it....

No, you reset the universe.  Genocide is when you manage to overcome
your enemy.  Reset is when you take over 3 complete quadrants, whether
you do it by good play or by falling back on puerile but effective
measures like playing the game in another part of the galaxy entirely
because you can't get your team to work together enough to take the
last planet.

>-KB

-- 
                                          rjones@dsd.es.com
  					  (2 weeks and counting)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: surge@cqs.washington.edu (Jonathan Sari)
Subject: Lagg U vs. Hell's Bagels
Summary: Hell's Bagels are a great team.
Keywords: bagels inl
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 22:32:34 GMT

I apologize for the delay in posting this, but I have been very busy
of late.

I would like to thank the Hell's Bagels for a truly great netrek game,
one of the best I've ever played in.  The Bagels have a *very*
impressive team, as well as a double helping of style.

I was impressed that the game has been free of controversy and
bandying back and forth that seem to follow upsets these days.  I was
similarly impressed with the Bagels' desire to have the best game
possible, rather than trying to stack the deck in their favor, and I'd
hope that other teams would follow their example.  That they haven't
whined incessently or posted about their supreme prowess says volumes 
about them.

That the importance of a level playing field is so evident with them
means a lot to me, and it's why I insisted that our team stop play
while they were ghostbusted, and that we attempt to pause the game
whenever an inequity was evident.

A truly great team has no need to laud itself, and I, for one, have
immense respect for the team (and the player) that is so skilled it
realizes that the netrek community will recognize its greatness
without requiring it to announce its superiority at every opportunity.

My hat is off to the Bagels.  You are a team that makes the game
great, and my team would play you any time you wished.

-surge (Captain, Lagg U)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: archmage@hardy.u.washington.edu (Michael Bakkemo)
Subject: Re: LaggU beat HB (snif)
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 20:05:08 GMT

Excuse me mister best scout in the world admiral sunscreamer(blatant
buttering up) but I cannot let your misinformation stand. You lost 13-7
and the game wasn't really that close until the last 10 mins when you
cmae up with an incredible push. (I was sure we were going to lose it, I'm
still amazed.) We noticed the ghostbust, and took *nothing* bombed *nothing*,
patiently waiting for you to get back in. you popped during the break as well,
and I remember thinking that wasn't exactly fair...Bill(diediedie) is coming
back to LaggU because he can't play any IC games. He isn't on our roster so
we asked nicely if we could play him and you said yes (thank you).
When, oh when will an ogger/escort get the nod for MVP? is there no justice?
From: hadley@vlsi.ics.uci.edu (Tedd Hadley)
Subject: Re: INL: Possible server bug.
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Organization: UC Irvine Department of ICS
Date: 13 Oct 92 22:00:27 GMT

>>	4) xtkill did not free up the slots, when we tried to eject players.

   Ejecting doesn't free the slot.  You need to do 'xtkill <player number> F'
   This assumes you're using Terence's xtkill program.  (It probably should be
   included in future versions of the INL server.)

   -ted
From: gc2n+@andrew.cmu.edu (Greg K Chung)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Blessed Borgs
Date: 15 Oct 92 01:59:13 GMT
Organization: Sophomore, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 14-Oct-92 Blessed Borgs Stephen
Joseph Smith@cs. (549)

> This is getting ridiculous - is reserved.c available for ftp somewhere or
> something?

> This morning on rwd4 I had the dubious pleasure of playing with *two* blessed
> borgs, both identifiable by distress calls:


> mlee@avalanche.berkeley.edu

>  O6->ORI  Distress Call from O6: 0% dmg, 100% shld, 2 armies!, 100% fuel
>  O6->ORI  Distress Call from O6: 0% dmg, 100% shld, 2 armies!, 100% fuel


> Next@coke.eng.umd.edu

>  Od->ORI  Distress Call from Od: 0% damage, 17% shields, 19% fuel, 0 armies!


> Can we get the new blessing scheme soon?  Pleeeeeeeeeeease?




Well, you'll probably be seeing everyone use it.

It is Mehlhaff's new client, which Berkeleyites use and soon so will
most anyone.  

You will also notice that SB distress calls contain wtemp info.



The inclusion of some features is questionable.  The ability to turn off
visible tractors at the touch of the button would be nice (can that be
done?)




Greg
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 13:50:46 -0400 
From: "Timothy C. Worsley" <tw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Rank
	<1992Oct12.203847.6302@cis.ohio-state.edu>

12-Oct-92 Re: Rank Michael Moore@hadrosaur. (2430)
Mike Spews forth:

> 	First off, there's the LPS, where one can spend hours and
> hours in.  Your planet rating falls, if you want to help your team
> then you generally aren't scout bombing, so your bombing drops.
> The only thing that might go up is your offense, but not by very
> much.

> 	Secondly, there are the times when you are on a team that
> is much more clued than you.  In this case you can bomb, but you
> cannot take planets easily because you can't count on escorts.

	First point:  A team that does not bomb during an LPS is giving up on a
chance to come back.  When fighting out of an LPS, it helps a LOT to
have the enemy army poor.  If only one player is doing all of the
bombing, s/he can get a bombing of 3 without any effort -- higher if the
enemy has already genocided a race.  
	Also, one of the most effecitve ways of stoping a genocide is to kill
anyone who comes to close to your home planet.  One can get a HUGE
offense rating this way.  Both Human Target and Offensive Tackle have
made Commodore on single DI this way.

	Second point: If your team is much more clued than you, then perhaps
you aren't all that clued, and shouldn't have rank (Am i making sense? 
I *think* I am.).  I also strongly disagree with your theory that a
really clued team doesn't supply escorts.  Sounds like you're talking
about a really greedy team.  I'll admit that it's hard to gain ratings
on a greedy team.

ZZnew guy
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: jch+@cs.cmu.edu (Jonathan Hardwick)
Subject: Re: The Fine Art of 1 Update Netrek
Keywords: my three scum
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 23:40:42 GMT

rhodesia@wixer.cactus.org (Felix S. Gallo) writes
> genie@netcom.com (Gene Choi) writes:
> >rhodesia@wixer.cactus.org (Felix S. Gallo) writes:
> >Hey Felix.  I've been talking about this same setup for a while
> >now!  But your setup is crazy.  You're actually xhosting over
> >SLIP!!!????  Are you crazy?  There's no way your v.32bis modem
> >can handle the traffic.  Use my idea.  Run the Linux client!!!!
> >(If you need it, I have it).  Xhosting sends 4X+ the net
> >traffic.
> 
> Err.  Excuse me for asking, but how is the Linux client supposed to
> connect to anything when I'm not actually on an ethernet?

Well, you're certainly on *a* net.  Otherwise how is the Sun3 sending
all the X stuff to your PeeCee?  Your PC is just pretending that the
SLIP link is a really really slow ethernet/FDDI/whatever.  As long as
your PC has a valid IP address, the Linux client should run fine.  And
then you can netrek in the nude at 4 times the speed. 

My Sun3 disk went west a while back, which is why Spiff@19.2kbps
hasn't been around lately.  Of course, the failure was probably an
internal IC subplot to keep me practising ogg-mode from my office,
rather than doing scout-bombing from home.  Sometimes we're so subtle
even I get scared... 

Boy Sprouts
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: hde+@cs.cmu.edu (Herbert Enderton)
Subject: Re: the berkeley blessed binary -- READ THIS
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 20:48:44 GMT

In article <Bw49Gx.I04.2@cs.cmu.edu> hill@norman.VI.RI.CMU.EDU (Robert Hill) writes:
>Gamera writes
>> mlee@avalanche.berkeley.edu
>>  O6->ORI  Distress Call from O6: 0% dmg, 100% shld, 2 armies!, 100% fuel
>
>This is the binary that people are talking about.  It isn't borglike at  
>all...just adds some NBR features.
>
>I play the hadley client...it confers little(if any) advantage to the  
>user.  I wish the SB bitmaps would be improved...can't see if shields are  
>on.  It has visible tractors, but I find them annoying, so I turn them  
>off.
>
>I apologize for ZZ's intense flame.  I'm sure he didn't understand the  
>situation.  
>
>I haven't played with the berkeley client, yet, but I hope to soon.  I'm  
>not too worried about it at all.  It is an advancement in client  
>techonology with no "borglike" features.
>
>I hope everyone plays the new berkeley client (thanks ERic).  I'll be  
>getting me a copy soon.
>
>Rob
>aka Spaceace!

I use Eric Mehlhaff's new client.  CMU people should be able to run it
out of ~he04/bin/netrek.

In addition to the improved distress call (which is the main reason I
use it), it has a visible my-tractor option (yuck), non-warping message
feature (hit 'm' and type), 1-10 update/sec selection, optimized X
drawing and X server traffic, mouse-button maps, an
announce-armies-carried command, server name shown on the wait-queue
window, and a few other little features.  It's pretty cool, and I
definitely recommend it.

What I'd like to know is whether there's a more powerful INL-legal
client out there, one of these NBR prototypes?  I want to have the
best client I can get.  I haven't tried Tedd Hadley's client yet, so
if anybody is familiar with both of them, let me know which is better.

I'm a little surprised taht it's taken so long for people to start
protesting about these new clients.  Mehlhaff announced his client's
availability about three weeks ago, and my immediate reaction was to
send mail to my inl rep asking if it was legal (no definitive reply
until Tom's post today), and to Mehlhaff asking if I could get it for
the Decstation.  I trust that the INL council has conferred on the
subject of whether visible tractors make such clients "combat or
informational cyborgs".  Note that if I tractor you and you cloak, I
get to track you on the tactical map (though the tractor lines jump
around because they're drawn according to the ?? position).  Are there
other grounds for disputing the legality of any of these clients?  Do
any of them show the color of cloakers, for instance?

 -- Red Shirt
From: paulsen@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (FreeKill)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Rank
Date: 14 Oct 92 23:02:24 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <1992Oct13.014235.9997@cis.ohio-state.edu> mdm@stegosaur.cis.ohio-state.edu (Michael Moore) writes:
>In article <Bw1AG3.H5w.2@cs.cmu.edu> hill@norman.VI.RI.CMU.EDU (Robert Hill) writes:
>>Michael Moore writes
>>> 	I think if you don't scum, and you play for anything that even
>>> resembles a long time, you're lucky to get 3.0 ratings.
>>
>>How's that?  The average value for the server should be 1.0 for each of  
>>bombing, planets, and offense.  Thus, the average player will get 3  
>>ratings.  A good player, will consistently get higher than 3.  Most of the  
>>players that I respect get between 4 and 6.

I agree.  Given any server, you have good players and bad players.  The really
good players should be able to consisently keep between 4.5-6 ratings.  Even
if you can only manage 5.0 ratings (which is about where I hover) you should
be able to get Rear Adm on Quad-DI.

My first 80 hours with my sole character, I completely sc-bombed.  Because of
that my ratings look like shit.  I would venture to say that you could make
Admiral on Quad-DI without scumming.  Balton would be a good example.

I also think rank = clue (provided the person isn't name scumming)  If you
think you are as good as a bronco admiral, then go out and get the rank.
In general, about half the flt. capt's, I don't worry about.  The ones that
I should worry about, I know their login names.  Commodores and above give
me some pause.  And I never take admirals for granted.

Brian
From: davidt@cs.utexas.edu (David Eng-Yeow Teo)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Scimmage Results: Target Practice vs. the World
Date: 9 Oct 1992 13:27:51 -0500
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: notrees.cs.utexas.edu
Summary: Target Practice


	Nothing relevant to the game though.  I just want to know when the next scrimmage with Target Practice will be and can I use a borg against TP?

I've been watching Target Practice for a while and I think I know where its weaknesses lie :-

Its strength :-

1)  Very Good phaser locking
2)  Very Good dodging
Its dog-fighting ability is great.

Its weaknesseses :-

As with almost all robots :-

1)  Predictability
2)  Lack of strategy
3)  Lack of adaptivity

At the moment, I feel that if TP were to play against clueful borg players, and I'll like to emphasize clueful, TP should lose.  This is because borgs help to complement dogfighting skills with a clueful player's wits.

-- 
[1m[4mDavid Eng-Yeow Teo[0m

               [1m[7m>>>>> WHERE ILLUSION IS THE ULTIMATE WEAPON! <<<<<[0m
From: bathurst@noaapmel.gov (Bill Bathurst)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Who is the best?
Date: 14 Oct 92 22:26:01 GMT
Article-I.D.: felix.BATHURST.92Oct14142601
Organization: NOAA/PMEL, Sand Point Way, Seattle, WA


Suzka is the best!!!!!
--
Bill Bathurst				Internet:	bathurst@noaapmel.gov 
NOAA/PMEL				Phone:		(206) 526-6765
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: ramid@nyx.cs.du.edu (Rudy Amid)
Subject: Re: Hell Peacock
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 92 11:36:50 GMT

"Timothy C. Worsley" <tw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:

>	As for Scott Drellishak, I feel that his stubborn determination to
>discourage Ogging has set back Berkeley play more than any other player
>at UCB, and that losing Bezier was a boon to Berkeley skills.  You may
>feel free to disagree with me.  History will show who is right, I
>imagine.

   Discouraging ogging?  How is this done?  Without actually making a server
mod, this is going to be rather hard to do.  "Ogging" is a way of netrek --
it's part of the game strategy and can be fun too.

>ZZnew guy
>Ringman -- Cheif hellraiser of Xgolems

--
!Rudy Amid              ///
a434amid@cdf.toronto.edu//
amid@r-node.gts.org   ///
Netrek/IRC: Radix  \\X//
From: von@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Steve Von Worley)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Robot tests
Date: 8 Oct 92 19:34:39 GMT
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley

In article <Yep4N6W00awHMavEUt@andrew.cmu.edu> "Timothy C. Worsley" <tw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>
>	Testing a new robot seems like a resonable thing to do on a lonely
>server.  Most people who want to do serious robot work have thier own
>servers, and occationally kick people off in favor of thier creations.  

Definitely. 

>	On that note, are there any planned SFOP or AP tests in the works?  I'd
>be interested.

I may have a Target Practice versus the world scrimmage sometime in the
near future.  This will be it's first match against humans, so it will 
be genocided; the question is in how much time.  

I'll keep you posted.

Sandia - Dr. Destructo - Bloated Cow
-- 
Steve Von Worley
von@cory.berkeley.edu
Computer Science Gradual Student
University of California at Berzerkly
From: hadley@broadway.ics.uci.edu (Tedd Hadley)
Subject: Re: GB vs LA Riot at Calvin
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Organization: UC Irvine Department of ICS
Date: 10 Oct 92 17:50:07 GMT

In <1992Oct10.101705.13011@netcom.com> genie@netcom.com (Gene Choi) writes:


>Yes, we lost.  There is no denying the fact.  But I felt
>almost cheated (although this was not the case of course)
>playing with both my hands and feet tied. I have never
>seen packet loss as bad as today ever (even before
>UDP days).  Calvin had never been this bad.
>Please don't think I'm exaggerating.  I am not.  Calvin's
>gateway sucks and gives really burpy transmissions.  I expected
>this.  But losing packets like today, shish...  I can't
>finish describing....  What a horrible experience...

   Once again I would stress that I don't think the problem is at USC
   but in the network just outside (probably CERFnet).  This could
   mean that UCI or UCLA would be just as bad depending on whether
   incoming connections share the same lousy part of the network.

   Here's an idea for consideration.  I'm sure GB agrees that no team
   should be forced to play through a broken network.  If we had a good
   reliable way to benchmark servers from locations in the US then it
   would be possible to make an INL ruling on the cutoff between
   acceptable/playable lag conditions and non-acceptable/non-playable
   conditions.  The benchmark program could be used at the start of an
   INL game by the away captain, and if the result is not within the
   acceptable range, he has the option of postponing the game or suggesting
   an alternate server.

   Benchmark program:  a special client that sends commands to the server and
   records the time delay for a response.  (NOTE: ping just isn't good enough.
   The ping times I recorded from calvin to berkeley clearly do not reflect
   the actual conditions.)  Over a period of 5 minutes say, deviation from
   the average can be calculated and reduced to a few figures.  The result
   calculated in this manner should exactly reflect the playing conditions.
   (These figures would also be sent directly to the server).

   This proposal is only to provide a "legal" way out for teams playing under
   extraordinarily bad conditions.  What do people think?  Is it worth it?

++
   Tedd Hadley (hadley@uci.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek