From: makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Subject: Re: Jewish sources for Kahane's views?
Reply-To: makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe AZ
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 01:40:17 GMT

In article <dfs.721183673@vash> dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll) writes:

# In <1992Nov5.181016.7558@ennews.eas.asu.edu>
# makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky) writes:
 
# >In article <dfs.720896417@vash> dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll) writes:
 
# ># >	I tell you what.  Just (for only one out of many examples) read
# ># >what the Jews must do with the inhabitants of the land.
 
# ># Yes, I know all about that - the tribes which must be destroyed, etc.
# ># However, perhaps you'v missed the news - Rabbinical rulings from the
# ># time of the Talmud declared that those commandments had been fulfilled,
# ># and that there was no more reason to continue hunting the seven tribes.
# ># I believe a similar ruling applies to the case of Amalek.
 
# >	Let us just say, for example, that you are correct about the
# >Rabbinical rulings (I am pretty sure you are incorrect with respect to
# >the tribes, and I am definitely sure you are incorrect with respect to
# >Amalek).  Let us again say that those laws only applied during the
# >time of Joshua's conquest.  Were those laws racist during the times
# >they were in effect?
 
# The Canaanites were to be expelled because they committed "abominations"
# in the land, something which cannot be applied to the Arabs.  Similarly,
# Amalek was to be utterly destroyed because of his murderous and treacherous
# actions against Jews.  So, to apply those laws to modern times is simply
# going AGAINST Jewish teaching.

	I will not go into this line of reasoning now (but I may in the
future) since it is not the point being addressed.

# Whether or not those laws are or were
# racist is besides the point - the fact is, that according to Jewish
# tradition, they do not apply to the Arab inhabitants of Eretz
# Israel.

	Oh, but it is EXACTLY the point.  You are claiming that Rabbi Meir
Kahane (HY"D) was a racist.  There are Jewish sources for his beliefs.
He may or may not be justified in using those sources to support his
claims, but it does go to the issue as to whether or not he was a
racist.

# >	Now let us move forward to current times and assume those laws no
# >longer apply.  Does the fact that those laws no longer apply (only
# >consider it with respect to this aspect) make them any less or more
# >racist today (Igore right/wrong or anything else.  I am only
# >interested in discussing the "racist" issue.)?
 
# Again, the "racist" aspects of that particular section are beside
# the point.  The fact is that, unlike what you claim, trying to
# apply those laws today is contrary to Judaism.

	It may be contrary to Judaism (and it may not - again I am not
going to discuss that aspect since it is besides the point), but that
does not make the Rabbi racist.  If you are correct, it would only
make him wrong.

# ># >	I will make aliyah in the near future.

# ># That's great for the US, but not so good for Israel.
 
# >	"Thanks.  Very reasoned argument."
 
# I mean it.

	Again you deleted the context of my argument.  I copied a response
you had made to me, which is why I enclosed it in quotes.

# I believe that Kach-ists are a great threat to the
# safety and security of the State of Israel, and am concerned
# every time their number there grows.

	Well you are certainly entitled to your opinion.  However, I think
the biggest threat are Israeli (and other) politicians who hurl lies
about the late Rabbi which are then picked up on by people like you.
Even if the Rabbi is wrong, he was the only one to address certain
issues.  The smear campaign against the Rabbi and his views only puts
off addressing those issues, and the longer they take to be addressed,
the harder it will be to solve them.  I suggest you inquire as to why
the publisher of the extreme left wing Village Voice made many
complimentary statements about the late Rabbi.

# >	I will ignore both your sillyness and the fact that you deleted
# >the context of my response.  Do you believe there is anything wrong
# >according to Judaism with facilitating the immediate movement of all
# >Jews to Israel?
 
# Absolutely not.  As long as it does not me "facilitating" the expulsion
# of people already living there.  What was done, was done, and I'm not
# ashamed to support Israel.  But conditions for Jews now are quite
# different, and we cannot claim our land by kicking out long-time
# inhabitants.

	THis is nonsense.  No one has to be expelled as a result of any
kind of facilitating or claiming of land.  In fact, facilitating
actually destroys one of the Rabbi's arguments for expulsion
(demographics)!
--
"For all I care, you can send your money to the Hitler memorial fund, too, if
that pleases you."

From  arens@vaxa.isi.edu (Yigal Arens) in article <9323@venera.isi.edu>