HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: heidi@wolf.net.com (Heidi Wolf)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Identify this story/quote/poem?
Summary: THE STAR THROWER by Loren Eiseley
Date: 27 Jul 92 17:57:47 GMT
Organization: N.E.T., Redwood City, CA

In article <1992Jul25.220323.13592@hippo.ru.ac.za> ccfj@hippo.ru.ac.za (F. Jacot 
Guillarmod) writes:
>
>In article <1992Jul22.181016.12197@awdprime.austin.ibm.com> craigb@ot.austin.ibm.com writes:
>
>>Two people are walking on the beach. One finds a live clam
>>that has washed ashore, picks it up and throws it back into
>>the ocean. The other person says "There's an awful lot of
>>clams washed up on this beach; no way you can save them all."
>>To which the first person replies "I may not be able to save
>>them all, but I made a difference in this one clam's life."
>
>>Am not sure if it's a story or a poem or one of those 
>>inspirational things you see on plaques or what. Anyone
>>know who wrote it and where I can find the exact text?
>
>Loren Eisely rings a bell in this context.  Can't remember the name of
>the book this passage occurs in, though.


Yep.  It's the title piece in his book of essays THE STAR THROWER.
(Though it is, of course, starfish which the person on the beach 
tosses back into the ocean.)

Among the great contemporary naturalist/philosophers -- Eiseley,
Annie Dillard, Steven Jay Gould, Lewis Thomas -- I would pick 
Eiseley as my favorite.  I love the ease and precision and 
grace of his prose, and he's less "dark" in overall outlook
than Annie Dillard (the other great stylist of the foursome
mentioned above).  He's also a thoughtful and thought-provoking
writer who is able to write about rescuing stranded starfish
without lapsing into mawkishness.   

(To fans of the other essayists: please note that this is merely  
a subjective, not a prescriptive, ranking, and reflects my own
personal (and eccentric) tastes in prose.)


Heidi Wolf
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: dmpowell@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Darin M. Powell)
Subject: Re: Dickens vs. Twain
Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 13:25:49 EDT

In article <rauser.711743520@sfu.ca> rauser@fraser.sfu.ca (Richard John Rauser) writes:
>
>   I've always seen a parallel between these two...both were late 19th
>century novelists, both saw themselves as social prophets of a sort,
>and both concerned themselves with their society's outcasts in their
>novels. 
>
>   So who do you prefer?
>
	
	Twain, a million times over.
	Dickens annoys me. Overbearing. Yeccch.

	Darin Powell
	Syracuse University,
	Where the weather is so lousy that Stephen Crane left
	and Joe Biden wad driven to plagarism.


Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.arts.sf.misc
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Subject: Re: Mandatory negatives (was Re: Agnostics and Athiests)
Reply-To: whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 00:12:00 GMT

In article <1992Jul30.180900.28257@cas.org> sdr57@cas.org writes:
>
>(In the context of this thread, I would point out that atheism
>requires at least as much faith as any theism - the atheist
>must believe in the *nonexistence* of a deity 

Is the atheist permitted to note that, given the absence of evidence
*for* the existience of the supernatural, that a tentative hypothesis
of non-existence seems to be in order?  Since, after pointing this out
to the believers in *existence*, no overlooked evidence turns up, and
continued obersvation does not bring forth an new eveidnce, the
conclusion from the hypothesis becomes stronger.  By now--that
conclusion should be pretty strong.  Not *proof* of course, but right
up there with gravity and evolution.  At what level of confidence you
place the likelihood that a released pencil will fall?  At what
likelihood that a demonstration of the existence of god will occur
tomorrow?  Do such conclusions (to vary degrees of surity) constitute
"belief"?

	--Hal
-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    "Boycott Time-Warner"
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |         --J. Danforth Quayle
510-823-5447                 |    "... kill all the lawyers."
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |         --William Shakespeare
From: barclay@RAIL9000.gatech.edu (Barclay Blanchard)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Or Shakespeare either (was: I don't like Dickens...so sue me!
Date: 23 Jul 92 03:42:12 GMT
Organization: Georgia Tech Research Institute

In article <9207221826.AA18634@cfdev1.shearson.com> mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto) writes:

>The SubGenius (who I wish would write under a REAL name) writes:

:)
[deleted stuff]
>
>As I've grown older, I am thankful for the large number of required classes
>that I had as an undergraduate, and think that there should be more.

I agree with that.  I wish I'd been required to take (or even *offered*)
classes in math history and physics history (as a math major and phsyics
major, respectively).  Also, I wish I'd taken a dance class a lot sooner.

>I find it appalling to think that a literature major could get by without
>studying the major figures, or that a philosophy major could get a
>degree without having learned a little about all of the major schools
>of thought, or that an animal science major could graduate without studying
>whatever bullshit they study.
>
But there are so damned many major figures in Western lit (or even English lit
or American lit) that I despair that even one lifetime is enough to get
exposure to all of them.  And I've been reading pretty steadily for 20-odd
years.



-- 
Barclay Elizabeth Blanchard    barclay@rail9000@gatech.edu
"I've been laughed at by some of the funniest people."
--Lissie, Alice Walker's _The Temple of My Familiar_
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Subject: Re: Asimov and the Decay of SF
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 17:57:37 GMT


Joanne Eglash wrote:
 
	Can anyone recommend fiction (both by authors in previous 
	decades and current writers) in which the subject of science 
	and scientists is handled intelligently?  

Physicists and, in particular, theoretical physicists, not only, for the
most part, take themselves too seriously, but a number of them even believe
in a Higher Truth. One fine exeption was Richard Feynman who, from time to
time was also able to see his work as great artistry rather than great 
science. In a way I suppose he might have thought that all good science was
good Science Fiction. His autobiographical little book *Surely you're
joking, Mr Feynman* (he had asked for lemon and cream with his tea..) is
a nice little read, and Feynman was also something of a Topless fan in the
days -- ah, will they never return? -- when Topless was the real higher truth
in Southern California.

						Fido


Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin)
Subject: Re: Great American Novel
Originator: mnemonic@eff.org
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 11:10:07 GMT

In article <55624@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> westr@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Robert _FinnAgain_ West) writes:

>Perhaps you could illustrate this difference to me. This is
>not meant in a sarcastic way, but in a genuine desire to hear your
>thoughts on the subtlety of VINELAND. I suppose most of my frustration
>with the work was in its cheeky tone.

Well, I think the tone is ultimately a tool of irony. What the book
communicates, in addition to its humor, is the anguish and sadness of
having been dreamy idealists in the '60s, and then discovering in the '80s
that not only has the dream been betrayed, but that the idealists betrayed
themselves.

>	Sigh... I wish just for one day the academy would let us read
>something contemporary. Waiting for your (and others) reply.

Incidentally, I think it's worth reading selections of GR and VINELAND
aloud. Both are very good, but your ear tells you things about the
language of VINELAND that you don't get from reading. GRAVITY'S RAINBOW
has a quirky, jazzy bebop feel to it, whereas VINELAND often seems to have
kind of wistful, folky feel.

Another thing to note about the two books--in GR, the true evil seems to
lie in *others*, like the mad scientist Pointsman. In VINELAND, it's not
one's enemies one has to worry about--it's one's own desires and one's
willingness to betray oneself.


--Mike




-- 
Mike Godwin,     |"Crime is contagious. If the Government becomes a law-
mnemonic@eff.org | breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every
(617) 864-0665   | man to become a law unto himself. It invites anarchy."
EFF, Cambridge   |         --Brandeis, J., dissenting in Olmstead v. U.S.
From: kirk@cs.duke.edu (Scooter Corleone)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Unspoken Words
Date: 29 Jul 92 14:09:30 GMT
Organization: The Zymurgy Institute

As a person who reads a lot, I find I have a large vocabulary of words 
that I have only read; I've never spoken them or heard them. As a result, I
know what the words mean, but I don't always know how to pronounce them.
Since I've been reading a lot of Faulkner lately, I've made considerable
additions to this vocabulary of unspoken words.

Here's an example: miasma. It's not a word you'd usually drop into
day-to-day speech. I was discussing this word in the context of unspoken
words with a friend recently, and we disagreed about how the word should be
pronounced: He suggested "my-asthma", while I preferred "my-ass-ma". (Both
pronunciations are useful when you're reading Faulkner.)

I was wondering if other readers had noticed this unspoken words phenomenon.

No worries,

Scooter Corleone

--
Today and a wakeup and I'm gone.
 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,alt.horror
From: rsquires@cyclops.eece.unm.edu (Roger Squires)
Subject: Re: Lovecraft Philosophy (was _Necronomicon_)
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 20:00:31 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

In article <1992Jul28.062919.15706@ilx018.intel.com> you write:
>
>A related question - the same biography claims that some of HPL's work is in
>the public domain, either due to being published first in amateur magazines,
>or due to expiration. Now THIS is interesting - if anyone knows exactly what
>works are in public domain, and what the legal status of "publishing" them on
>the net would be, we`de have a nice little net.project on our hands.
>
>This is especially attractive for those "rare gems" that are almost impossible
>to find, being out of print for a long time.
>

	You have just restated the purpose of the Gutenberg Project.

	If you contact HART@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu (the administrator)
	or FTP to mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu  (or  numeric 128.174.201.12)
	you can look at the various readme files that explain the
	details of contributing to the Project.  There is also a
	Usenet list you can look at (search for "gutn" at the 
	newsgroup level).  There is also a listserv you may subscribe to.
	One of these readme files states that
	the Project will assist with hardware (scanner) use, but
	you will probably have to acquire a scanner yourself.
	I was conversing with a person who is scanning and proofreading
	Bibles for the Online Bible project, and he tells me that
	a SoundBlaster board makes proofreading a snap (use an editor
	to replace punctuation with words).

	As for copyrights, here is the PG guideline:
	"Copyright considerations:  easiest rule of thumb is printed in the US,
	and over 74 years ago.  However, we will do more extensive searches in
	cases where such an edition is not available."
	You have to mail copies of copyright statements from the book
	to various people, etc., which is all explained in one of
	the readmes.

	I hope you do actually have the gumption to start this project.
	It is a good idea.

Roger Squires
rsquires@cyclops.eece.unm.edu
From: rachel@phsbbs.princeton.nj.us (Rachel M. Kadel)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Little Men
Date: 25 Jul 92 19:09:56 GMT
Organization: Princeton High School, Princeton, New Jersey

jahb@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (JENNIFER A. HEISE) writes:

> >In article <22JUL199208582109@nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov> calvo@nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov
> herri Calvo) writes:
> >>
> >>Anybody else dig out the dusty classics of their childhood lately? How
> >>did it go?
> >>
[stuff deleted]
> Other books (older ones) that I still enjoy:
[list of very good books deleted]
>     E.E. Nesbit: _Railway_Children_, _The_Phoenix_&_the_Carpet_,
>     _The_Wouldbegoods_-- archaic language but very sympathetic portraits of
>     kids.
> 
>     and many more...
> 
Did _any_ of you miss Nesbit's _Five Children and It_?  I see you there 
in the back row.  Go read it, NOW!  (Seriously, it is a good book.)
And if you like that sort of thing (magic that never does just what you 
intend it to but is fun anyway), try _Half Magic_ by Edward Eager.
                                Rachel M. Kadel

There's an infinite number of monkeys at the door wanting to show us the 
script to Hamlet they've worked out...The school won't even LISTEN to me 
, much less let me speak for it...rachel@phsbbs.princeton.nj.us
From: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Great last sentences
Keywords: fiction endings
Date: 21 Jul 92 15:35:09 GMT
Reply-To: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology
In-reply-to: troach@netcom.com (Tom Roach)

In article <l+bm!6.troach@netcom.com>, troach@netcom (Tom Roach) writes:
>I would like to know other reader's opinions on the most memorable
>last sentences in books, short stories, or whatever they've read.

	Then I went back into the house and wrote, It is midnight.
	The rain is beating on the windows. It was not midnight.
	It was not raining. 		--Samuel Beckett, end of MOLLOY.

On its own, these are not terribly impressive.  What is so memorable is
the context these sentences take place in.  The second part of MOLLOY is
a somewhat strange detective story, with Moran looking for Molloy, re-
garding whom we watched in part one of the novel.  The second part begins
"It is midnight. The rain is beating on the windows. I am calm. All is
sleeping. ..."  The second half of the novel is revealed, as Moran sits
down to write his report, to be that report.  And to be completely un-
trustworthy.  There have been many, both ordinary and remarkable, examples
of metafiction and unreliable narrators, but none stands out as Beckett's
here.  The ending swallows the beginning, but rather than creating a simple
playback loop (cf PLAY), a Moebius strip inversion occurs, destroying the
story, all in the space of a few lines.
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
From: crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Lauren L. Crawford)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Robertson Davies
Date: 29 Jul 92 16:43:22 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

I read one of his books, which contained one of my least favorite
female characters in literature.  Actually, it wasn't so much the
character (who basically thought and acted like a man but was, of
course, drop-dead gorgeous) but the premise.  

The woman is a stunning and brilliant university student who is
sought after and lusted over by (surprise, surprise) middle-aged
men who, I think, were on the faculty.  Lo and behold, she ends
up falling for one of the more fatuous of them.  At some point
her mother, a wild, fortune-telling gypsy violinest or something,
turns up to add mystery and passion to the woman's background.

The book read like a middle-aged man's fantasy romance.  I felt
Davies had created his dream girl and then put his symbolic self in
the story to woo and win her.  Wretched.

I think it was The Rebel Angels but I'm not sure.  I occasionally
am tempted to try another one of his books because some of my friends
rave about him.  But if, as one person has said, he keeps doing the
same thing over and over, I don't think I'll put myself through it.




-- 
===============================================================================
Lauren Crawford  //  crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu
"What a waste it is to lose one's mind.  Or not to have a mind.  How true  
that is." -- J. Danforth Quayle at United Negro College Fund luncheon
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: spg@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Stephen P. Guthrie)
Subject: Re: Bathroom reading
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 16:48:48 GMT

In article <1992Jul30.121151.25426@spider.co.uk> ian@spider.co.uk (Ian Heavens) writes:
>I have a short biography of Thomas Crapper, who invented the flush
>toilet, in this room.
>
>Ian Heavens				ian@spider.co.uk                 
>Spider Software
>Spider Park, Stanwell Street		
>Edinburgh, EH6 5NG, Scotland		+44 31 555 5166 (Ext 4347)
>--

Really! The flush toilet was invented in a room at Spider Software.
Talk about product line diversity.
From: llawson@blandings.llnl.gov (Len Lawson)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Penguin Books in Bay Area
Date: 29 Jul 92 14:57:24 GMT
Reply-To: llawson@blandings.llnl.gov (Len Lawson)
Organization: Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory

Cody's on Telegraph in Berkeley seem to have a lot of Penguins
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin)
Subject: Re: Great American Novel
Originator: mnemonic@eff.org
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 11:03:03 GMT

In article <28JUL199222191951@zeus.tamu.edu> spb0457@zeus.tamu.edu (SubGenius) writes:

>Overrated?  Possibly.  _Vineland_, _Crying of Lot 49_ and _Slow Learner_
>weren't exactly brilliant.

I disagree. VINELAND was exactly brilliant.



--Mike




-- 
Mike Godwin,     |"Crime is contagious. If the Government becomes a law-
mnemonic@eff.org | breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every
(617) 864-0665   | man to become a law unto himself. It invites anarchy."
EFF, Cambridge   |         --Brandeis, J., dissenting in Olmstead v. U.S.  
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Subject: Re: Escobar of Escobar Hall
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 14:09:32 GMT

Francis Muir writes:

	NURSE: Marigold, Marigold! It's time we went, dear! 
	MARIGOLD sighs gently, and stirs a little in her sleep.

Oh Shit! I gave away the ending. Did I scare Taranto to death?
I wonder what his last words were...

						Fido

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: snow@netcom.com (Tim Szeliga)
Subject: Re: Who is I.E. Lonoff in Roth's "The Ghost Writer"?
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 13:40:59 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

In article <dcox-240792084204@dcoxmac.nswc.navy.mil> dcox@relay.nswc.navy.mil (David Cox) writes:
>When I read Philip Roth's "The Ghost Writer" some time ago,
>I couldn't help but wonder, since that novella is apparently
>thinly veiled autobiography, who the character of I.E. Lonoff
>was based on. Does anyone know? Thanks.
>
>David Cox


I.B. Singer
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: fi@grebyn.com (Fiona Webster)
Subject: Re: _Mao_II_ by Don DeLillo
Organization: Grebyn Timesharing
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 00:09:56 GMT

Someone (sorry, but I lost the name) asked for comments on _Mao_II_.
Gosh, I'm only 70 pages into it, but already I've accumulated a list
of 25 delicious quotations.  Some great stuff on the life of the
writer--and on art, books, reading, other rabbly delights.

For example:

	"He was a young man, shrewd in his fervors, who knew there
	were books he wanted to read and other he absolutely had to
	own, the ones that gesture in special ways, that have a rareness
	or daring, a charge of heat that stains the air around them."

	"The more books they publish, the weaker we become.  The
	secret force that drives the industry is the compulsion to
	make writers harmless."

	"The only private language I know is self-exaggeration.
	I think I've grown a second self in this room.  It's the
	self-important fool that keeps the writer going.  I exaggerate
	the pain of writing, the pain of solitude, the failure,
	the rage, the confusion, the helplessness, the fear, the humi-
	liation.  The narrower the boundaries of my life, the more
	I exaggerate myself.  If the pain is real, why do I inflate
	it?  Maybe this is the only pleasure I'm allowed."

	"Every sentence has a truth waiting at the end of it and
	the writer learns how to know it when he finally gets there.
	On one level this truth is the swing of the sentence, the
	beat and poise, but down deeper it's the integrity of the writer
	as he matches with the language.  I've always seen myself
	in sentences.  I begin to recognize myself, word by word, 
	as I work through a sentence.  The language of my books has
	shaped me as a man.  There's a moral force in a sentence when
	it comes out right.  It speaks the writer's will to live."

And so on... the writer character in _Mao_II_ is hilarious!  Hilariously
maudlin, and hilariously self-knowing in all his pathetic (and bathetic)
postures.  I love it when he says, "Work is what I do to feel bad."

							--Fiona
From: ed@wente.llnl.gov (Ed Suranyi)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Isaac Asimov's Book of Facts Vol. II
Date: 26 Jul 92 01:09:53 GMT
Organization: UC Davis Dept of Applied Science at LLNL

In article <19355@plains.NoDak.edu> kmagel@plains.NoDak.edu (ken magel) writes:
>
>Does anybody know where I can buy Isaac Asimov's Book of Facts Vol. II. 
>The first volume was published by Bell publishing Company and distributed
>by Crown publishing Company.  Book of Facts Volume II should at least date
>after 1982.

Is there such a book?  I never heard of it.  Can you give the reference
that this book exists?

Ed
ed@wente.llnl.gov
From: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Jim Mann)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Fiction with scientists (WAS Re: Asimov and the Decay of SF
Date: 30 Jul 92 17:05:38 GMT
Reply-To: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com

In article <1992Jul30.153003.22068@ncar.ucar.edu>  
chucks@uars2.acd.ucar.edu (Chuck Smythe) writes:
> In article <cbOq02Ha1brz01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com>  
jjh00@OUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Joel J. Hanes) writes:
> >Joanne Eglash wrote:
> 
>  >      Can anyone recommend fiction (both by authors in previous
>  >      decades and current writers) in which the subject of science
>  >      and scientists is handled intelligently?
> 
> >_The_Dispossessed_, Ursula Kroeber LeGuin
> 
> Alas, I don't think this does it.  I consider _The Disposessed_ to be  
on the
> short list for the best sf novel ever, but its treatment of science and
> scientists isn't particularly realistic.

I disagree.  I think one of the strong points of The Dispossessd is
its portrayal of how a scientist works. I've talked to a couple
of folks in the sciences who agree.


--
Jim Mann       jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com  Stratus Computer
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books