HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cockburn@majors.enet.dec.com (Craig Cockburn)
Subject: Idea for promoting Celtic languages
Organization: Digital Equipment Co. Ltd., Newbury, England
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 12:12:00 GMT

Hi,
	If any of you out there go to or organise Celtic events in
your area, such as Celtic music concerts, Highland gatherings, dances,
Clan meetings and so on, here is an idea:

There are various organisations which are orientated towards helping
people learn the Celtic languages. I'm sure these societies would be
delighted to know of Celtic events happening around the world so that
they can send leaflets to such events and this will help to put people 
interested in learning a Celtic language in touch with organisations
who can help them. For Scotland, the organisation to contact is CLI
(pronounced KLEE), and I have attached details of them to this note.
Please pass this information onto anyone who may be interested.

Perhaps others could post details here of the main organisations for
Irish, Welsh, Cornish, Breton and Manx so that together we can boost
the number of people learning all the Celtic languages.

As an example of what can be achieved, my London Gaelic newspaper has
resulted in about 10 new members for the choir, at least 2 new life members
for the London Gaelic society, many phone calls enquiring about what's
on, a "most encouraging" number of new members to Gaelic Aig Deas,
several people taking up a Gaelic correspondence course and lots of
new members for CLI. Let's repeat this across the world now !

le durachdan blath,
                   Craig.

Comann an Luchd-ionnsachaidh Ltd (CLI) is the Gaelic Adult learners
association. CLI is a national non-political association with Charity
status. Their primary aims are the development of Gaelic courses and
production of learning materials, maintenance of a Gaelic information
service and publicising the Gaelic language and culture to non-Gaelic
speakers. Their annual membership is 5 pounds

CLI be reached at:

5 Caoilshraid Mhicheil,         5 Mitchell's Lane
Inbhir Nis                      Inverness
IV2 3HQ,                        IV2 3HQ
Alba                            Scotland

Tel: 0463 711792  International: +44 [463] 711792

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Craig Cockburn, Digital Equipment Co. Ltd, Newbury, England.  
  ARPAnet: cockburn@majors.enet.dec.com                            Saor
  UUCP:..!decwrl!majors.enet.dec.com!cockburn                      Alba!

  Views here are my own, and are not necessarily those of Digital
From: cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Chris Cooke)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: What goes around comes around
Date: 8 Apr 92 11:50:30 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Edinburgh, Scotland
In-reply-to: geraghj@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu's message of 7 Apr 92 07:24:44 GMT

If we want to stop talking about N******* I******, the best thing to do is
not to mention it, I think...
--
	-- Chris. 	cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk   (on Janet, cc@uk.ac.ed.dcs)
From: scobbie@Csli.Stanford.EDU (Jim Scobbie)
Subject: Re: USA go home (Was Re: Shooting)
Organization: Stanford University CSLI
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 15:52:06 GMT

In <1992Apr14.202532.6159@pony.Ingres.COM> gmcquary@Ingres.COM (George F. McQuary) writes:

>Every Irish-Americian learns as a child that seven of the US presidents were
>all or in part of Irish decent (Now eight with Reagan?) so we have obtained here
>a status in the world not enjoyed by Ireland itself.  We came to this country
>because of famine, having our land stolen from us, conscription, or as white
>slaves for the plantations. Because of this, the average Irish-americian
>is fairly pissed off at the UK.

>When faced with such arrogance in the sons of the people who did this to us,
>it is  difficult NOT to cheer whenever someone blows up more British. I very much
>resent the attitude that Irish-americians should keep quiet about Irish politics.

How would you feel about a campaign of violence against US military and
civilians by 'fairly pissed off' groups of american indians who suffered
at the hands of immigrant expansionism in the Americas and are now in an
entirely worse situation than the population of Ireland? Would you
cheer? 

As a son of the people who conquered and despoiled the USA, your arrogance
is greater than that of the British. Our 'arrogance', well mine anyway,
is that I fail to cheer when  people are blown to bits. Your arrogance
and hate for individuals who have done you (nor Ireland) no harm is sick.






-- 
James M. Scobbie: Dept of Linguistics, Stanford University, CA 94305-2150, USA
                  scobbie@csli.stanford.edu
From: skenny@nano.engr.mun.ca (Shawn Kenny)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Comments on News Program
Date: 6 Apr 92 16:02:36 GMT
Organization: Memorial University of Newfoundland

About two weeks ago, a film crew from Irish television was in St. John's
to cover the overfishing problem -- the reporter was Joe O'Brien I
believe. During their stay they also interviewed Mike McGuire (in
Gaelic) and Dennis Ryan at a local pub. I don't know if this has been
televised yet, but I was wondering if someone has any comments to make
on the film clip. Naturally I only saw the film takes and not the edited
version.
--
=================================
skenny@pico.engr.mun.ca
St. John's, NF, CANADA
"Have a touton or do without'n !"
From: billp@pcsbst.pcs.com (Bill Potter)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Scotland: Independance v Devolution
Date: 14 Apr 92 10:34:22 GMT
Reply-To: billp@pcsbst.pcs.com (Bill Potter)
Organization: PCS Computer Systeme GmbH

In article <1992Apr10.221103.1363@news.clarkson.edu>,
walker@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Graham Walker, 227 West Old Main,268-3847,)
writes:
> As i listened to the World service during election night (late evening
> over here) the initial feeling was that Scotland was going to be a
> "problem" for Major in the next parliment. However, as the evening drew
> on, and as a slight swing to the Tories was detected in Scotland, the
> concensous was that Scotland would not be an issue for Major to deal
> with because "the Scots had shown that then were not interested in these
> matters as demonstrated by their lack of support for the SNP." Would
> someone in Scotland wish to make a comment on this analysis?
> 
> 													Graham Walker

I expect a lot of us will. 

Let's start with the voting figures.

Labour 39% 
Tory   26% 
SNP    21%
LibDem 13%

Looking at that I see 60% of Scots voted for a socialist party.
52% of Scots voted for a party proposing devolution.
74% of Scots voted for a party supporting a change from the 
constitutional status quo.

Pre-election opinion polls (although these should be taken with
large pinches of salt) suggested that about 30% of Tory party
supporters in Scotland favoured some form of devolution. This is
an issue that is not going to go away. 

Grey John has no mandate from the Scots, and neither has the
Lang streak of misery, no matter what he may claim.

There is a mandate for devolution if Labour and LibDems want to pick 
it up and use it. (Would they know how to?)

The Labour party has an awful lot of explaining to do to the Scots
as to why they once again allowed the soouth of England to dictate the 
governing party in Scotland for the next five years.

Don't be surprised if the Labour Party in Scotland splits on the
measures needed to bring about the type of politics that Scots
keep voting for. Looking at the election results in Britain as a whole
it seems that independence is now the only way to bring that about.
Maybe someone in Scotland (Chris, Bob, Jim) could tell us about
George Galloway's reaction to the results. I imagine that would
be quite interesting.

In some ways this was the 2nd best result that the SNP could have 
wished for. But they're not so bloody minded.

The sort of tactical voting that the British electoral system 
encourages is a hit and miss affair. In this case it was a 100% miss.

My 2 groats worth.

=============================================================================
Bill Potter    : unido!pcsbst!billp       : 
PCS GmbH       : billp@pcsbst.pcs.com     :
D8000 Muenchen : You can't sink a RAINBOW :
=============================================================================
From: bruce@tcom.stc.co.uk (Bruce Munro)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: USA go home (Was Re: Shooting)
Date: 16 Apr 92 13:36:18 GMT
Organization: BNR Europe, New Southgate, London.

In article <1992Apr14.202532.6159@pony.Ingres.COM> gmcquary@Ingres.COM (George F. McQuary) writes:
>
>When faced with such arrogance in the sons of the people who did this to us,
>it is  difficult NOT to cheer whenever someone blows up more British. I very much
>resent the attitude that Irish-americians should keep quiet about Irish politics.

Well you must be be feeling pretty cheerful then seeing as how your
brave boys have recently killed a 15 year old girl and two office workers
with a bomb in Central London. What an arsehole!

-- 
Bruce Munro.  <bruce@tcom.stc.co.uk> || ...!mcsun!ukc!stc!bruce
BNR Europe Ltd, Oakleigh Rd South, London N11 1HB. 
Phone : +44 81 945 2174 or +44 81 945 4000 x2174
"There are no strangers, only friends we don't recognise" - Hank Wangford
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: postings on this newsgroup
From: kgloria@eagle.wesleyan.edu
Date: 12 Apr 92 15:38:03 EDT
Organization: Wesleyan University

	I am very dismayed at the rudeness of some of the postings to this news
group.  I am especially dismayed when I see a polite posting replied to with 
unwarranted rudeness.  If you want to reply to a posting you disagree with,
please try getting your point across without resorting to crude remarks
directed towards the person you are responding to.  Those of you who do resort
to these crude remarks are only making yourselves look bad.

				regards,
					Karen
From: packer@cs.swarthmore.edu (David Asa Packer)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: How is "uillean" pronounced?
Keywords: uillean,pipes
Date: 17 Apr 92 02:04:44 GMT
Organization: Swarthmore College


Hi everyone,
	Just wondering - how is the word "uillean" (as in "uillean pipes")
pronounced?

Thanks,
Asa
packer@cs.swarthmore.edu
From: trifid@agora.uucp (Roadster Racewerks)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Is this good history?
Date: 12 Apr 92 22:33:34 GMT
Article-I.D.: agora.1992Apr12.223334.14641
Organization: Open Communications Forum



I have just gotten Joyce's two-volume history of Ireland (written around 1907?)
from the library. Can anyone tell me how well this has stood the test of time
vis a vis its accuracy as history, or at least the accuracy of his suppositions?

"A Social History of Ancient Ireland", by P.W. Joyce (Also, is he a brother of
the "famous Joyce"?)

Suze
Organization: Rohm and Haas Company
Date: Friday, 10 Apr 1992 11:09:16 EDT
From: Aengus Lawlor <RBYAML@ROHVM1.BITNET>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: shoot to kill?

In article <9359@baird.cs.strath.ac.uk>, imcc@cs.strath.ac.uk (Iain McCord)
says:
>
>  I'm afraid I don't understand the phrase 'shoot to kill' : is there a way to
>shoot people without killing?
Of course there are ways to shoot people without killing. In some cases, it
takes more skill to kill than to wound.

>Lets face it, military training isn't designed to leave an enemy alive.
When you say 'enemy', do you mean 'terrorists', 'IRA terrorists',
'nationalists', or 'catholics'? Taking prisoners is a normal part of war-time
behaviour. But of course, there isn't a war in Northern Ireland, so that
doesn't apply? Soldiers usually act to achieve an objective. Given that the
actions of the British army are often inconsistent with achieving their stated
objective (maintaining peace), they must be poorly trained soldiers, or
that isn't their real objective.
>  I think the question that should be asked is the following: does the
>situation in N.I. justify an armed force?  If it does then what should the
>make up of that force be?  Also, when is the use of force justified?
If you accept that the continued violence in Northern Ireland is at least
partly a reaction to the presence of British troops in nationalists areas,
then a much more productive question is: Would restricting the role of the
British Army in Northern Ireland lead to a deterioration of the situation?
What sort of restrictions would lessen community friction without compromising
security? Is there such a thing as "an acceptable level of violence?"

Iain's questions presuppose a continuation of the status quo, a largely
hostile minority community, and a preparedness to treat that community as
the enemy. It's based on a 'grind the bastards down' philosophy.
>
>                ~~~~~/\~~~~~
>Iain McCord     ~~~~/()\~~~~    Fri Apr 10 11:12:37 WET DST 1992
>                ~~~~~~~~~~~~
Aengus
--
RBYAML@ROHMHAAS.COM                    Aengus Lawlor
RBYAML@ROHVM1.BITNET                   (who used to be ALAWLOR@DIT.IE)
"How about some of that famous Dublin wit, Barman?"
"Certainly, sir. Would that be Dry or Sparkling?"
From: imcc@cs.strath.ac.uk (Iain McCord)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Scottish flags
Date: 16 Apr 92 18:28:06 GMT
Organization: Comp. Sci. Dept., Strathclyde Univ., Scotland.

You're half right !!!
  There is only one Scottish flag,  the blue one with the white cross.
The other is the heraldic banner of the scots royalty, used as a rallying
point in battle.  It's technicaly treason for ordinary plebs like you and
me to fly one of those over our house, unless you've got the queen round
for tea.
-- 

		~~~~~/\~~~~~
Iain McCord	~~~~/()\~~~~	Thu Apr 16 19:28:04 WET DST 1992
		~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Chris Cooke)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: kentish independence
Date: 8 Apr 92 11:47:39 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Edinburgh, Scotland
In-reply-to: grd@aber.ac.uk's message of 7 Apr 92 18:39:45 GMT

In article <1992Apr7.183945.2402@aber.ac.uk> grd@aber.ac.uk (Gareth John Dixon) writes:

   A few weeks ago, someone posted an article claiming that Kent was ripe for
   independence!  Is this person sane ?

Ignorant non-Scottish opponents of Scottish independence tend to use this as
an anti-independence argument - if Scotland gets independence, Kent should
get it too, ha ha ha.  No, of course it doesn't make sense, and there really
isn't any great similarity between Kent and Scotland; only astoundingly
ignorant folks make the joke.

Of course, there may be a few *real* Kent Nationalists (Kent Countyists?) out
there; no offence meant to them :-)
--
	-- Chris. 	cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk   (on Janet, cc@uk.ac.ed.dcs)
From: mike@nomad.lbl.gov (Michael Helm)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: What goes around comes around
Date: 14 Apr 1992 20:50:59 GMT
Organization: N.I.C.E.
Reply-To: mike@nomad.lbl.gov (Michael Helm)
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.128.20

finlay_j@spcvxb.spc.edu writes:
[This was an interesting article about, alas, meta-topics; I don't
want to address his main point; read another article, if that bothers
you.]

>[debate about] ... the word "Celtic,"...
>that the word itself seems to have an association with Romanticism that is
>almost impossible to remove. I would not describe myself as a Celt, although
>as Celts ever existed (though I am quite ignorant of precise archaeological
>writing about them). The word, and the idea, seems to conjure up something

It seems to be pretty messy.  "Celt" is a Victorian (post-Romantic,no?
but the same idea) notion, at least in some respects. Maybe.  Maybe
"Celt" is only useful to describe a set of related IE languages.  Or
maybe you could use it as another word for La Te`ne (& successors?).
Other people have posted about the recent "I Celti" exhibit in Venice
which seems to have been a real gathering of important artifacts.  The
exhibit guide is available & is pretty interesting (tho expensive).
[I have a mail-order address for those interested in it.]

>I remember being struck very much by Bob Quinn's three television films,

I haven't seen these shows but I did "score" & read the book.  He would
definitely agree with your attitudes about "Celtic".  He doesn't
buy it at all.  He thinks this notion was invented in the late 19th
early 20th century to promote national spirit in pre- & revolutionary
Ireland.

>down the well-trod paths, not to fight the old fight, but to take a quizzical,
>perhaps Joycean, stance on modern Irish consciousness.

Joycean... well now I know why I found Quinn's book such a puzzle to
read, for such a short 180+ pgs it's often confusing.  I wish we could
see his shows, they mite be more understandable.  I don't think they
made it across the Atlantic (anybody know?).

>up in Bray, Co. Wicklow. The epithet that his way of speaking brings to my mind 
>is not "Celtic" at all, but what we used to or still call "west British."
>
>Again, here we can get into a whole matrix of meanings and cultural 
>associations. I'm not sure what "west British" means to anyone else; all I 

On the other hand, how do you feel about colonialism?
That's what "west British" means to me.  Maybe "Celtic" is
necessary after all, pax Voltaire, even if untrue it has
to be invented.

>than an argument (how many of us Irish-born posters grew up in
>families dominated by garrulous banter?--it DOES seem to be a distinctly Irish

This is one characteristic (among others) that wasn't dropped at Ellis Is,
let me tell you.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: oconnell@vms.macc.wisc.edu (Kevin Patrick O'Connell)
Subject: Re: Liking Indiana (was Re: Sick'n'tired of the "Troubles"
Organization:  University of Wisconsin Academic Computing Center
Date:  7 APR 92 20:38:02    

In article <92097.080553RBYAML@ROHVM1.BITNET>, Aengus Lawlor <RBYAML@ROHVM1.BITNET> writes...

>In article <1992Apr4.212857.25332@macc.wisc.edu>, oconnell@vms.macc.wisc.edu
>(Kevin Patrick O'Connell) says:
>>
>>I think Suze has hit the nail on the head.  Continue to read scc for
>>the articles that ARE about culture, music, literature, Flann O'Brien
>>:-), and so on, and send the rest out the chute.  I agree with the
>>first poster in this thread.  The reason I asked some time ago about
>>how people know whether folks are Catholic or Protestant was to see a
>>different twist on the argument; that is, to see if folks would run
>>with the idea that maybe a bunch of white Anglo Christians who grew up
>>in Ireland may have less to fight about today than they think.  Ah,
>>well.  Any Crusikeen Lawn fans out there?  I must admit that much of
>>it is over my head, having to do with various foibles of DeValera, and
>>some of it in Latin (!), but the style of writing is always a joy to
>>read!
>>
>>See ya,
>>
>>Kevin
>And maybe if you actually bothered to read some of the postings on that
>trivial and boring subject of Northern Ireland, you might have learnt that
>"Catholic" and "Protestant" are only synonyms for Nationalist/Republican and
>Unionist/Loyalist. When used in the context of Northern Ireland, they aren't
>always religious labels. Dismissing them with pious and patronising references
>to 'Anglo Christians' takes either ignorance or gall.
> 
>(And from somebody who blithely admits that the various foibles of Dev are
>over his head!)
> 
>Aengus
>--
>RBYAML@ROHMHAAS.COM                    Aengus Lawlor
>RBYAML@ROHVM1.BITNET                   (who used to be ALAWLOR@DIT.IE)
>"How about some of that famous Dublin wit, Barman?"
>"Certainly, sir. Would that be Dry or Sparkling?"

I'd like to apologize for what has been taken as a patronizing tone 
towards the discussion of the strife in NI.  I had no intention of 
being patronizing or pious; I have essentially no experience of 
Ireland, and the predominant topic here is the conflict in NI, and I 
would like to see other topics discussed.  Why should I not "blithely
admit" that I am not familiar with "Dev?"  Yes, the strife in NI touches 
many aspects of Irish life, I might assume, but surely that isn't all 
there is, and the life of DeValera is not common fare in US schools or 
the US press.  And, as usual, it seems that here, as well as in the 
real world, the debate over NI is defined by the most extreme 
viewpoints.  Are there any groups/individuals here or there whose main 
task is building ties between the Nationalist and Loyalist 
communities?

About being a white Anglo Christian--I happen to be one.  If ignorance 
and gall are my only choices, I choose both.  Ignorance I addressed 
above, and my choice to express an honest opinion based on what little I do 
know (as well as my taste for particular topics of discussion) 
evidently constitutes gall.  

Kevin
From: J.M.Spencer@newcastle.ac.uk (Jonathan Spencer)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic,soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Update on the Caraher shooting
Date: 13 Apr 92 10:50:39 GMT
Organization: University of Newcastle upon Tyne, UK, NE1 7RU

holohan@mark.enet.dec.com (Mark Holohan) writes:



>                          Caraher Shootings Update
>                          by Sandy Carlson (Belfast)


>Two Royal Marine Commandos were charged in February for murdering 20

Note the impartial, unbiased reporting style. They weren't "charged
with" murder they were "charged for" murder, suggesting that they had
done rather than were simply accused of doing it. Big difference, eh?


>Thus, whether or not justice will be done in this case remains to be
>seen.

Justice goes both ways. It would be helped by reporting the facts, not
beliefs.

--Jonathan
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: cockburn@majors.enet.dec.com (Craig Cockburn)
Subject: Re: Scottish Gaelic Words for Men and Women
Organization: Digital Equipment Co. Ltd., Newbury, England
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 16:33:57 GMT


In article <BMpr83.Lsn@world.std.com>, eac@world.std.com (Eric A Cottrell) writes...
>Hi all,
>This may sound like a strange request. We are making up signs for the men's
>and women's restrooms (or loos). I would like to add the proper scottish
>gaelic words to the list. The words for "Men" and "Women" should be enough.
>Thanks   73 Eric eac@world.std.com

Men: fir
Women: mnatha (probably also 'mna' with a grave over the 'a')

It is particularly amusing to see the toilets in Ireland labelled "M" and "F"
and watching the foreigners who think this refers to "Male" and "Female" :-)


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Craig Cockburn, Digital Equipment Co. Ltd, Newbury, England.  
  ARPAnet: cockburn@majors.enet.dec.com                            Saor
  UUCP:..!decwrl!majors.enet.dec.com!cockburn                      Alba!

  Views here are my own, and are not necessarily those of Digital
From: gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary L. Newell)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Scotland: Independance v Devolution
Date: 14 Apr 92 17:43:16 GMT
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson



 I really think it is about time we split this group. In particular, I
find that I waste a lot of my time having to wade through the continued
arguments regarding Scot politics. Perhaps a group named talk.politics.scot
is in order, as I have little interest in Scot politics and I really
think this group should be left for what I like, I mean it should be
left for what I think is culture, no no no - I mean it should be for
soc issues not political ones..... thank you,


			gln