HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dsy@psych.toronto.edu (Desiree Sy)
Subject: Re: REQUEST: book title
Organization: Department of Psychology, University of Toronto
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 01:50:27 GMT

In article <1993Jan4.224843.28153@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com> westphal@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com (Dorothy Westphal) writes:
>Years ago I had a novel that dealt with time travel.
[...]
>The method was first total immersion in a setup simulating
>the place and period the traveler was aiming for, and eventually
>just "thinking" his way to that time while asleep. 
>
>The main character was sent back to find out the meaning of an old letter, 
>and the time and place were 1890's New York. 

Perhaps TIME AND AGAIN, by Jack Finney?  (I may have either the
title or author wrong.  Or even both.)

-desiree

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: athena@cheshire.oxy.edu (Staci Ann Waldroop)
Subject: Re: Education and the Environment by Gregory A. Smith
Organization: Occidental College, Los Angeles, CA 90041 USA.
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 19:26:43 GMT

In article <scottj-060193084433@iamac-1.dml.georgetown.edu> scottj@magic.dml.georgetown.edu (John L. Scott) writes:
>It's odd.  You complain some parents, unlike your own, aren't doing their
>part in educating their children, yet when some other parents decide to
>absolutely do everything in their power to ensure that their children do
>get a good education, you accuse them of burying their heads in the sand. 
>Homeschoolers do take responsibility--they take *full* responsibility for
>their children's education.  How can you ask for more?
>
>--John L. Scott

Yes, I can ask for more.  I can ask that people take responsibility for others.
In my own opinion, we are all in some sense tied together and the success of 
our society depends upon a heathy relationship.  When you concern yourself 
solely with yourself and your family, then I do call it "burying their heads
in the sand."  The policies you say you support are fine, but how do you 
support them?  My arguments extend not just to education, and I do not mean to
attack you personally.  The entire society needs to look in upon itself and try
to discover why, as so many tell us, we are falling apart at the seams.  One 
can easily say "I support educational reform" or "I support the movement to 
save the rainforests."  I simply want to know if that is as far as it goes...so
what? you support it--WHAT ARE YOU DOING????  Do you get my meaning?  

I go to a very small, very private college that is trying to change itself and 
the people who go here by exporing Multiculturalism.  Perhaps this is where my
anger lies...seeing loads of rhetoric, but few (peers) who actually seek to 
use multiculturalism as a tool to strengthen the college community.  If asked,
probably 9 of 10 students here will say they support just about every PC 
cause you could think of, but when pressed will admit that they aren't involved
in any way in the process of change.  This is what, IMOHO, needs to be changed.
If you are doing something besides just withdrawing your students from the
traditional educational environment, then, though it may be the best for your
kids, *I* say that you *are* ignoring your responsibilities to your fellow
human beings.  

				Staci A. Waldroop
				Occidental College
				English and Comparative 
					Literary Studies (Classics)
				athena@cheshire.oxy.edu
From: engelson-sean@cs.yale.edu (Sean P. Engelson)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Legal theory, Homophobia, and the Bible
Date: 10 Jan 1993 16:17:50 -0500
Organization: Yale AI Mobile Robotics Project
Distribution: world
Reply-To: engelson-sean@cs.yale.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: argentina.ai.cs.yale.edu

In article <MATT.93Jan6100949@physics2.berkeley.edu>, matt@physics2.berkeley.edu (Matt Austern) writes:
|> In article <1if16iINNcnr@ARGENTINA.AI.CS.YALE.EDU> engelson-sean@cs.yale.edu (Sean P. Engelson) writes:
|> 
|> > Well, what exactly did the measures say?  I happen to be of the belief
|> > that it's generally better not to single out certain groups for a
|> > special "do not discriminate" status, both because this implicitly
|> > encourages discrimination against other groups not so listed, and
|> > because it affords certain sorts of grouping legal (hence, objective)
|> > status, some of which groupings I may not believe should have such.
|> 
|> One can, I suppose, argue that all civil rights legislation ought to
|> be abolished, and that it ought to be legal to discriminate against
|> whomever you please in whatever manner you please.  I don't agree with
|> that position (I think that the reality of employment and housing
|> discrimination is sufficiently hurtful to people that we as a society
|> shouldn't tolerate it), but at least it's consistent.

Not at all what I meant.  Rather, that civil rights legislation should
be drawn with a brush of the proper width, rather than enacted
piecemeal for every self-styled interest group that comes along.
Something along the lines of "No discrimination in employment shall be
permitted except regarding necessary qualifications for the job
specified." (In appropriate legalese, of course).  The question of
relevance in discrimination suits is properly left to the courts.
This avoids singling out certain groups as "special" in that
membership in *that* group confers discrimination-inviolability.  It
may also have the effect of reducing spurious lawsuits by members of
such a group, alleging illegal discrimination where none exists.

BTW, after having read the text of the measures under discussion, I
must say that I disagree with them both, and find the Oregon measure
rather repugnant (and me a former Oregonian!).

-- 
Sean Philip (Shlomo) Engelson		
Yale Department of Computer Science	
Box 2158 Yale Station			
New Haven, CT 06520
From: mworley@mathcs.emory.edu (Meg Worley)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re:Stephen Mitchell (was: Rilke-Translation by S.Mitchell)
Date: 6 Jan 1993 11:53:03 -0500
Organization: Emory University, Dept of Math and CS
NNTP-Posting-Host: emory.mathcs.emory.edu

In article <C0EE7A.47J@srgenprp.sr.hp.com>, blaisec@sr.hp.com (Blaise Cirelli) writes:
 
> I wanted to compare translations of Rilke's poetry. I compared
> Stephen Mitchell's translations against others. I was trying not
> to like Stephen Mitchell since he seems to be the rage today. If 
> you live in the S.F. Bay area his books are everywhere.
 
> However, I must admit that I found his translations to be much
> superior than all of the other translators.
 
> Check it out!

I begrudgingly like Mitchell's translation of the Tao te Ching,
although for music of language, Bitter Winter (excuse me, Witter 
Bynner) still reigns supereme.  I hate admitting that such a 
New Age gaga-eyed whinger could translate so truly, but it is so.
Of the 13 translations into English I own, Mitchell's is the 
closest to Loud Zoo's original while remaining intelligible.

Rage away,

meg

-- 

 Meg Worley 				Internet:  mworley@mathcs.emory.edu
From: 00tlstanchfi@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Biblioholic quiz?
Date: 8 Jan 93 17:23:28 GMT
Organization: Ball State University, Muncie, In - Univ. Computing Svc's

Could someone e-mail me Biblioholic Quiz? I must've missed it over 
the holidays & am curious to see how I'd score on it...

Tracey "only 2 bookcases by the bed" stanchfield
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mtaranto@panix.com (Mark Taranto)
Subject: Step 7 (was RE: Paglia (was: Cross-Writing)
Organization: The Inner Clique
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 01:20:50 GMT



Heather Henderson writes:

> I wrote: 

>> The fact is, men rape, and women are in danger. 

> Mark Taranto writes:

>> I find the generality of this statement offensive. 

> Then you're an asshole.

> Nothing personal, of course, Mark.  I *like* you.  But I have the 12-step
> plan to consider.


Had anyone else written this, I would find it amusing.  I imagine that 
most people who read it will find it amusing.  

But, Heather, since you and I both know that you have called me an asshole 
in e-mail several times, and that you have told me -- more than once -- 
that you receive mail from lurkers every day who tell you that *they* 
think I'm an asshole, and that you have given me *every* indication 
that you do *not* like me -- I will add "liar" to the list of adjectives 
that will come to mind when I think of you.  "Inappropriately angry," 
"intelligent," "contradictory," "arrogant," "opinionated," and "self-
righteous" were already on the list.

Now -- the reason I find your statement objectionable is because I do
not believe that "The fact is, men rape."  I will certainly grant you
that the overwhelming majority of rapists are men, and I will certainly
agree that women ought to be careful -- but I find it offensive to
categorize men as rapists, as you have done here.  Perhaps that is not
your intent -- in which case I will just ask you to be more careful about
what you say.  If you are going to set yourself up as the arbiter of what
is offensive in r.a.b (as you appear to have done) -- then you better be 
*damned* sure that *you* are as careful about what you say and how you 
say it as you admonish others to be.

In general, men do not rape.  Most men find rape an abhorrent idea.  I
certainly do.  I will go further and say that I believe that "No means 'NO!'"
So did an Indiana jury, last summer.

I have never believed that if a women comes into my bedroom, she is consenting
to intercourse.  In fact, I have never believed that because a woman joins
me in bed it is implied consent.  I will even go so far to say that there
might be conditions when she says "Yes" -- and really means "no."  We
all have a responsibility when it comes to sex.  This responsibility is
shared by men and women -- and I think most people agree with me.

Now -- since both you and I know that you were not joking when you called
me an asshole, why don't you tell me the difference between Tom's response 
to you when you told him he was offensive, and your response to me when I 
told you that you are?


I think we're ready for step 8.


Mark
From: au500@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Linda Zinn)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Biblioholic quiz?
Date: 11 Jan 1993 01:05:22 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: au500@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Linda Zinn)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, 00tlstanchfi@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu () says:

>Could someone e-mail me Biblioholic Quiz? I must've missed it over 
>the holidays & am curious to see how I'd score on it...
>
>Tracey "only 2 bookcases by the bed" stanchfield
>
Linda Zinn says:

  I'd love a copy too, but maybe it is worth reposting?

  When people ask me if I've read all my books, I reply that I'm
  buying them now while I'm young and energetic and will read the
  surplus (surplus books? an oxymoron?) when I'm older and have more
  time. At the rate I'm going, I will have to live to be 215 years old
  and spend the last 155 years of my life doing nothing but reading.
  
--
From: keri@maths.uwa.oz.au (Keri Watson)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Encyclopedia Help
Date: 5 Jan 1993 03:24:49 GMT
Organization: The University of Western Australia
NNTP-Posting-Host: madvax.maths.uwa.oz.au

	Is there any way to access an encyclopaedia on the internet?
			
--
Keri Watson             Internet keri@maths.uwa.edu.au
Perth, WA               (09) 385 2227
Australia
From: mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Paul Johnson (was Paglia)
Date: 8 Jan 93 20:12:23 GMT
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Originator: mnemonic@eff.org

In article <1993Jan8.181604.8821@Princeton.EDU> roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig) writes:

>Horseshit.  Johnson told us nothing new about any of these people.  He
>did, however, pluck out certain aspects of the lives of these people,
>ostensibly to prove some point about the value of their work and about
>a larger class of people.  

In these four lines, Roger sums up Paul Johnson's book perfectly.


--Mike


-- 
Mike Godwin,    |"I'm waiting for the one-man revolution
mnemonic@eff.org| The only one that's coming."
(617) 864-0665  |                           
EFF, Cambridge  |                   --Robert Frost 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin)
Subject: Re: Jeeves (a cop thunker)
Originator: mnemonic@eff.org
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 20:21:24 GMT

In article <1is02mINNcl0@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> bh419@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ted B Samsel) writes:
>
>Aiyee! Jeeves bashed the constable over the head with a tree
>limb! Now must we boycott P.G.Wodehouse as we must ICE-T??

Previous encounters with constables no doubt explain how Jeeves acquired
that peculiar angle to his nose.


--Mike




-- 
Mike Godwin,    |"I'm waiting for the one-man revolution
mnemonic@eff.org| The only one that's coming."
(617) 864-0665  |                           
EFF, Cambridge  |                   --Robert Frost 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: s1mbm@isuvax.iastate.edu (michael bruce mcdonald)
Subject: Re: Shouting at robots
Reply-To: s1mbm@isuvax.iastate.edu
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 15:12:58 GMT

In article <scottj-060193092931@iamac-1.dml.georgetown.edu>, scottj@magic.dml.georgetown.edu (John L. Scott) writes:
>In article <JMC.93Jan2141039@SAIL.Stanford.EDU>, jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU
>(John McCarthy) wrote:
>> 
>> I hear my 7 year old son shouting "Stop! Stop!" at his robot.  You
>> might consider shouting at a toy robot a singularly futile exercise.
>> However, the robot, manufactured in China for a Japanese company and
>> sold at Radio Shack, uses voice recognition technology licensed from an
>> American company.
>> 
>> It just isn't very obedient when shouted at.
>> 
>> A $25 prize is offered for the best posting in the next week viewing
>> this development with alarm, i.e. children shouting at robots.
>
>Oh that's fine, Dr. McCarthy.  Make light of children shouting at robots. 
>Offer a reward for somebody who sees a problem with it.  Big joke.  Ha ha.
>
>I'm not laughing.
>
>Your child's mind is being SUBVERTED by inscrutable foreigners and you are
>AMUSED.  Let me tell you what is going to happen to your son.  He will
>learn to control machines (such as this "toy"), a skill they consider
>useful for him to have in the world they are creating.  He'll be able to
>tell the robot to "Turn left" or "stop", and it will.  It will obey his
>every command--except when it's important.  You see, your son only shouts
>when it is important TO HIM for the robot to stop.  And that is precisely
>when the robot is designed not to stop.
>
>Can't you see what is being imprinted in your child's brain?  He will grow
>up thinking he is in control of the various machines in his life.  He will
>be convinced of that, and it is important to them that that is what he
>actually consciously believes.  But when it comes to something important,
>when the computer generated letter tells him something he doesn't want to
>believe, when the government computer tells him he owes more tax or that he
>is drafted and should go to war, when the computer model shows that he
>should support this policy, this candidate, this party, when these things
>happen, that's when the programming you make such light of rears its ugly
>head.  It is then that deep down in his soul, he will know that shouting at
>robots doesn't work, not when it's important.  His subconscious will say
>"resistance is futile" and for reasons he isn't conscious of, he will give
>in, dejected and resigned to whatever they designs they have, but still
>believing that somehow, it is he and not they who are in control of his
>life.
>
>You may be able to laugh about this.  I feel like crying.  NO!  I FEEL LIKE
>SHOUTING!
>
>"STOP!  STOP!"


This is a beautifully worked-up little conspiracy scenario, but are you
serious about "inscrutable foreigners" being the culprits?  All you have
to do is consider the history of North America from an American Indian
point of view to see that those inscrutable foreigners 'R us!

jes another inscrutable foreigner,
mbm
From: nadel@attatash.aero.org (Miriam Nadel)
Subject: Re: The Wall Street Journal (was: 1992 in Review)
Organization: /usr/lib/news/organization
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 19:23:53 GMT

In article <5JAN93.02061006@vax.clarku.edu> hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu writes:
>
>Not only do they have one, but Julie Salamon is one of the best around.
>I read the Journal for her column, the rest of the arts page, and the
>"center column" article on the first page (usually about something
>off-the-wall, such as the origins of Budweiser, or eelpout fishing in
>Minnesota).  
>
I'm a great fan of the center column, too.  

But the major reason I get the WSJ, rather than another newspaper, is that
it seems to be the only newspaper left in the U.S. which has some standards
of literacy for its reporters.  The NY Times has declined seriously in
the past few years and, while local news is of some importance, I get all
I really need from listening to the radio on the way to and from work.

>The Wall Street Journal: Not Just Boring Stock Market Garbage.

Some of us find the stock market intriguing.  If you'd like some insight
into why, I suggest reading anything by Andrew Tobias.  

Miriam Nadel
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mgrimes@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Michael Grimes)
Subject: Re: Reading as an addiction
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 18:48:25 GMT

This topic raises a few subtopics and some personal FAQs.  To other 
bilbiophiles:  Do you ever have people enter your house, see all the books on 
the shelves and ask," Gee, have you read all these?"

YES!!!!!  Pick any book off any shelf and I'll tell you all about it!  ;-) !!
From: cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Homeschooling (was  Re: Education and the Environment by Gregory A. Smith)
Date: 4 Jan 93 22:43:54 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <1hvisiINNe2n@agate.berkeley.edu>, spp@zabriskie.berkeley.edu (Steve Pope) writes:
> John McCarthy responds to my post:
# ## And what really bugs me is that the people who are killing
# ## public education by pulling their kids out of public schools
# ## have the audacity to blame the problem on "liberal educators
# ## with their social agendas" and other imagined demons.
# 
# # I don't understand about "audacity".  People could conceivably be
# # mistaken in believing that "liberal educators with their social
# # agendas" are miseducating their children, 
# 
# Thank you for allowing this as a possibility.  I think it's
# more than "conceivable".  Sometime in the last decade or so a
# culture evolved around bashing the supposed social-liberal
# educators, and this culture has a life of its own entirely
# separate from anything that's actually going on in
# public schools in reality.  IMO of course.

Or perhaps in the public schools with which you have experience.
My experience in my own public schooling, and in what I have seen
here in Sonoma County, confirms the "liberal educators with
their social agendas" viewpoint.

# Steve


-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
C++ is to C, as lung cancer is to lung.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu
Subject: RE: Paglia (was: Cross-Writing)
Organization: Clark University
Date: 7 JAN 93 05:59:57 GMT


>Heather writes: 
>(in response to Ron Hogan) 

>>Paglia is a critic rather than a historian.  You read critics for their 
>>opinions, not to get an unbiased, objective view. 

>But those opinions should (I think) be rooted in, if not unbiased, at least 
>a semi-objective analysis of the work.  Dealing with Sterne in a paragraph 
>because you find him *tiresome* isn't criticism; it's coffeehouse chat. 

_Tristram Shandy_ was mentioned in the Emily Dickinson chapter of _Sexual
Personae_ in a discussion of hypochondria, specifically the fear of losing
limbs.  The full quote is: "Laurence Sterne's _Tristram Shandy_, which I find
utterly unfunny, may be a male hypochondriacal construction, for it is an
accident series of disasters to body parts -- a flattened nose, shattered
knee, crushed groin bone, a penis circumcised by a falling window." Her
personal opinion in this case is a casual aside, and doesn't appear to affect
her critical judgment of the work.

>>In _Sexual_Personae_ Paglia cites a huge number of references, as you
>>mention in your post. 

>And when she runs out out of references to support her opinion, she 
>restates her opinion, to make sure you get the point.  Some chapters more
>than others. 

That's her style, which I find grating at times.  But I understood you to be
saying she stated her opinion without references to back it up.

>Whereas Camille Paglia appears on "talk shows" that focus on personalities 
>and superficial discussion of the issues-- but I could be wrong, she may 
>have done a serious talk show I don't know about-- and in celebrity 
>oriented magazines like Vanity Fair-- and generates the cult of personality 
>around herself. 

I don't see why this is a problem.

>And to be honest, I don't see that I *have* been actively criticizing 
>the components of her personality, except when I said she tended to 
>namecall her critics.  

Her critics certainly feel they can call *her* names.  Gloria Steinem, for
example, has compared her to Hitler.

>As for the Bette Davis et al. cults among male homosexuals, I personally 
>think she's blowing it way out of proportion.  I imagine that the number 
>of male homosexuals who admire Bette Davis, for example, is not 
>*significantly* greater than those who admire a different type of actress 
>such as Vivien Leigh.  Or at least in no significant percentage different 
>from the percentage of the sum total of the filmgoing/film appreciating 
>culture.  It's what Hollywood throws out for us to appreciate.  
>If male homosexuals were out preserving Thelma Todd's memory or something,
>that would be a cult. 

You *are* kidding, right?

Heather
HHENDERSON@vax.clarku.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig)
Subject: Re: academic settings
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Distribution: rec
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 17:13:15 GMT

"john lovett" <john.lovett@channel1.com>:
>Can anyone recommend other books set in academia? Any genre will do.

Tom Brown's School Days?