HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: agray@axion.bt.co.uk (Andy Gray)
Newsgroups: alt.divination
Subject: Your thoughts invited
Date: 18 Nov 92 12:27:28 GMT
Organization: BT Laboratories

I thought I'd share a spread, or part thereof, from a couple of weeks back and
invite comments and discussion.

I have a couple of friends lodging with me for a while. I asked one of them to
shuffle the pack, my mythic cards, within an hour or so of moving in, as she is
interested in the Tarot. Using the Celtic Cross spread, and dealing every 7th
card, I discovered the following

	Significator		Queen of Pentacles
	Crossing		2 Swords
	Crowning		5 Swords

I can give the full spread if people are interested. I found these first 3 cards
fascinating, knowing what was in the air at the time. I was not really prepared
to do a reading for her!

Any comments?

   ^__^				 ___ 	 ___ 	 ___ 	 ___ 	 ___
  (-  0)	Andy		<*,*>	<*,*>	<*,*>	<*,*>	<*,*>
  | \/ |			[`-']	[`-']	[`-']	[`-']	[`-']
  \    /    NeXTMail Welcome	-"-"-	-"-"-	-"-"-	-"-"-	-"-"-
====^^======================================================================
    \/		Software Technology Division, SSTF/306, British Telecom
                Research Labs., Martlesham Heath, Ipswich IP5 7RE, U.K.
Andy Gray       Tel: +44 473 646647    e-mail: agray@axion.bt.co.uk
		"It does not do to leave a dragon out of your calculation,
		if you live near him." J.R.R.Tolkein
============================================================================
Newsgroups: alt.divination
From: wlamonac@purcell.helios.nd.edu (william lamonaca)
Subject: Indicia (A Romance)
Organization: OUC, University of Notre Dame
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 02:37:07 GMT

Have any of you used "Indicia: A Romance" from (I think) Burning
Books?  I've had it for a couple of years, ever since I saw a
review of it in Gnosis magazine.

Basically, it uses cards to answer a question.  I find it very
interesting, but a bit confusing because the book that came with
it doesn't go into great detail about how to interpret the spread.

Has anyone used it or even heard of it?

		-Bill

Newsgroups: alt.divination
From: CSMSETS@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU
Subject: Re: New Topic: Reading for/about yourself...
Date: 23 Nov 92 13:47:40 PST

In article <#+mq!cq@lynx.unm.edu>,
blowfish@carina.unm.edu (rON.) writes:

>
>Greetings!
>Just wanted to kick up some discussion around here. :)
>Couple of questions-
>1) How accurate do you find readings that you do for yourself? Do you have
>a particular deck that you use for yourself and not for others? Do you have
>any problems reading for yourself ever?
>

Yes on both counts. I do have a deck that I use ONLY for myself and
it does seem to work better that way. I do on occation have reading
that have nothing to do with me. It may take a while but I can usually
figure out who it is concerning and it usually has to do with someone
that is under some stress and is 'calling out for help', be it real
help or just someone to talk to. This is often why I call people that
I haven't talked to in months.


>and
>
>2) Have you ever done a reading for somebody else (especially a 'romance' based
>reading) that had yourself in it?
>
>r.

Yup, sometimes as a rival or a block (I've got alot of female friends
that I'm very close to). This is a good message to invoke the 'three
foot rule'. The three foot rule was something I came up with in clubs.
If someone flashes you three fingers they're telling you that there is
someone that they are interested in, stay away because they want to
seem approachable. Works rather well.
     --Ed
Newsgroups: alt.divination
From: kdez@athena.mit.edu (Katharine M Seaward)
Subject: Re: About Arcana VI...
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 16:49:39 GMT

This is one card that seems pretty clear-cut to me (whereas others I have a
lot of trouble with).  I take it to mean that the querent is wondering about
a love matter (obviously) and that they are specifically wondering about the
*expression* of love--the manner in which one expresses love and particularly
the physical or sexual expression of love.  That is, if someone claims to love
you, or to be acting out of love, and their actions make you feel distinctly
unloved, is this "real" love?  If your lover/sex life satisfies every item on
your mental checklist but still doesn't make you feel happy/fulfilled what's
wrong?  Is it them?  You?  Your expectations?  
Basically when this card shows, the querent is involved in making a choice 
between love/mode of sexual expression which is valid and satisfying for them,
and love/mode of sexual expression which satisfies only outward criteria,
whether those criteria are socially-dictated or of their own devising. 

Now if only someone would explain "Temperance"...
From: maire@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.divination
Subject: Re: just a question
Date: 23 Nov 92 01:43:26 -0500
Distribution: alt
Organization: Carnegie Mellon Computer Club

In article <92327.180044NMR103@psuvm.psu.edu>, <NMR103@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
> I agree w/ the last followup that said that the cards draw on
> one's subconscious to give "answers" to problems. But one thing
> that I've found, perhaps a bigger benefit of their use, is that
> they get you to talk and think about the important situation
> you're asking about. They're kind of a tool to get you to
> figure out your own feelings, what you want, and consider new
> ways to think of your situation.

ABSOLUTELY!  I've often said that one of the best things about the
cards is that they help me look at the situation from a different
angle.  I find that this is more true when I read for myself than
when I read for others.  When I read for others, they tend to be
seeking *answers*.  

Another related thought I've had is that interpreting Tarot cards
is a lot like interpreting dreams, since both use various symbols
relating to each other in various ways.




> That's why I like Tarot cards. :)
:)
Tina M. Wood
maire@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
maire@drycas.bitnet
From: sjgavula@css.itd.umich.edu (Susan Gavula)
Newsgroups: alt.divination
Subject: Re: About arcana VI...
Date: 16 Nov 1992 15:25:44 GMT
Organization: University of Michigan ITD Consulting and Support Services
NNTP-Posting-Host: stimpy.css.itd.umich.edu
Originator: news@stimpy.css.itd.umich.edu

In article <h+jqv0d@lynx.unm.edu> blowfish@carina.unm.edu (rON.) writes:
>So much of what this card means is dependent on what deck you're using,
>what spread its in, what sort of question is being asked and what cards
>are around it. 

And that is true of all the cards, I think.  The cards all have 
general meanings, but each deck may emphasize different subtle
aspects of each card.

>In brief, I've always found this card to be one of the more enigmatic of
>the major arcana- its still a powerful card, though. 
>In >most< instances I've seen, it represents love- of the human variety (not
>necessarily physical (sex) love, but even up to 'pure' human love) as opposed
>to spiritual understanding and being at one with the cosmos.

I think that you have just put into words for me the reason that I don't
consider the Lovers to be *that* strong of a card...Most of my readings
tend to deal with things on a spiritual level, that is, my own 
personal readings..

>peace-  
>r.

Blessed be,

Susan
========================================================================
        "Magick isn't sleight-of-hand, its sleight-of-universe"
        -Unca ?
              All acts of Love and pleasure are Her rituals
Newsgroups: alt.divination
From: eshin@ddsw1.mcs.com (Eshin-Fun)
Subject: Raml
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 04:36:26 GMT
Organization: ddsw1.MCS.COM Contributor, Chicago IL
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3


Has any one have any leads on a source presently in print on the subject of
"Sand Divination"  either Arabic or Madagascar in origin?

I am interested in the Skiddy of Madagascar as well as Raml "sand divination
that has been used for years. I have been told that it is still practiced in
the Middle East but the last time I was in Egypt I could not find anyone who
would do it.

I believe that in the Western world it is identified as a form of Geomancy.

Any comments?

Eshin-Fun
From: bc@Apple.COM (bill coderre)
Newsgroups: alt.divination
Subject: Re: Just a question
Date: 16 Nov 92 21:26:55 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

phoenix@cwis.unomaha.edu (Shannon Chris Saltzman) writes:
|I would like to know how tarot cards are supposed to work.
|Are they supposedly driven by the same elements said to cause
|other things to happen ie fate?

Here is one explanation that I like to believe sometimes. I don't
claim that everyone should believe it.

Each of the 78 cards symbolizes one or more things. The things might
be people, places, choices, qualities, or some combination. The
symbols are not easily expressed in words. They are deeper and more
subtle than that.

By considering the symbols in relation to each other, and in relation
to the situation of the asker, the reader can intuitively formulate
one or more hypotheses about the situation and perhaps even strategies
to deal with the situation. This intuition can be a very powerful tool
to helping the asker find possibilities, answers, and peace of mind.

For example, if I saw "lovers" and "page of pentacles" and "page of
wands", I might guess that the asker is at a point of choice (one
meaning of lovers) and that the choice is related to passion, desire
or love (another meaning of lovers) and that the choice s/he has to
make is between two people -- one of whom is represented by each page.

Naturally, the asker was appropriately flabbergasted when I asked if
he/she had slept with this other person yet.

By talking a bit with the asker, I was able to determine who the
people were, and talk to the asker about the nature of the choice.

What I have found most interesting about Tarot readings is how rarely
the reading is as simple as it seems. By thinking more about the
reading, I saw the choice the asker was facing as not only applying to
his/her love/sex life, but also his/her work life -- about which the
asker was also very passionate -- the pages represented two career
choices the person was facing, as well. Indeed, those two career
choices were in real life partially conveyed by the two people s/he
was choosing between.

Naturally, there were more cards in the reading, and they added a
whole lot more information to the situation -- by the time we were
through, the reading took over an hour and touched on a lot of issues
in the asker's life.

You could wonder just how much the actual order of the cards matters.
You don't have to believe that the cards are dealt by anything other
than chance to make this work. You can probably find enough meanings
in the symbols to make almost any spread meaningful for almost any
question. It's the power of intuition that fuels the reading.

Be that as it may, when an ex- of mine, completely skeptical, "played"
with a deck for a few hours, and in over a dozen readings identified
the page of cups as me, every single time, you got to wonder a bit.

bill coderre,
page of cups
From: vbp8723@venus.tamu.edu (PEREZ, VERONICA BEATRIX)
Newsgroups: alt.divination
Subject: State of Mind
Date: 23 Nov 1992 13:55 CST
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: venus.tamu.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

:)  Hello, everyone...
Before I ask my question, I'd just like to comment that I am SOO glad 
that I came across this group not too long ago.  I am EXTREMELY interested
into mysticism...particularly the Tarot, and I find it particularly useful
to have a newsgroup to refer to every once in a while.  I've been reading
off of this newsgroups for quite sometime now, but have only recently 
decided to go ahead and post some questions.  I only have one question 
for today, but be expecting a few later on down the line.  I can be 
considered a beginner, and would eventually like to get into more advanced 
reading, but I believe the first step at achieving this would be to 
plead my ignorance and ask for insight.  :)

Now then, I've been reading tarot cards since the spring of this year, and
usually run into problems on getting into the meditative state in order to
obtain a clearer and unbias reading.  My question for today is:

What sort of state of mind should I be in in order to reap the full benefits
of a spread?  (i.e.  Should I be concentrating on the question asked?  Should
I have a complete "blank" in my mind and be receptive to just about anything?
Should I attempt to look into the future of that particular situation of 
the question asked?  What?)

Thank you for your time...

Peace and love,
Moongazer

Newsgroups: alt.divination
From: jamie@cs.sfu.ca (Jamie Andrews)
Subject: Re: About arcana VI...
Organization: CSS, Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 00:30:47 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.160259.10741@axion.bt.co.uk> agray@axion.bt.co.uk (Andy Gray) writes:
>As I see it, mainly based on the Mythic Tarot, the 'Lovers' represents a choice
>that is available.

     I would agree most with this interpretation.  Many early
packs represented it as a choice which a man has to make between
staying with his mother and going with his wife-to-be.  I think
it's mainly about the fact that just about everyone has to make
the decision to stop being primarily someone's child, and start
being primarily someone's spouse and/or someone's parent,
sometime in their life.  This could be generalized to leaving a
safe situation for one in which one has more responsibility.

> I haven't worked with my
>cards closely for a couple of months, so they are not with me, but if memory
>serves me right the three choices are Aphrodite, Demeter, and Athene.

     You're speaking of the Judgement of Paris from classical
Greek/Roman mythology.  The Lovers could be depicted in this
way, though that could change the meaning a bit.  I think it's
usually depicted as the (male) Lover between the mother and the
sweetheart, with Eros aiming an arrow above; or as some variant
of this scene with Mother and/or Eros missing.

     The Three of Cups is sometimes represented by Paris's three
choices, or by the (related) Christian Three Graces (Faith,
Hope, and Charity).  In particular, the Pamela Colman Smith art
on the Three of Cups in the Rider/Waite deck recalls Renaissance
depictions of the Three Graces.

--Jamie.
  jamie@cs.sfu.ca
"The Tao's net encompasses the whole universe."  - tao te ching
Newsgroups: alt.divination
From: ernesto@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Teodoro E. Gelabert)
Subject: Astrology
Originator: news@nimaster
Keywords: astrology
Organization: Princeton University
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 22:30:11 GMT

   I have yet to see any postings on astrology (don't get me wrong - I
love tarot too, read them myself).  I was just wondering if there is
another group for astrology are what?
   Just wondering. 
   Teddy
-- 
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Omp                                "The way that can be spoken of     /
ernesto@phoenix.princeton.edu       is not the constant way;"        /
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
From: CSMSETS@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU
Newsgroups: alt.divination
Subject: Re: Tarot Spells
Date: 16 Nov 92 05:15:17 GMT

In article <2T33TB2w165w@mintir.new-orleans.la.us>,
beth@mintir.new-orleans.la.us (elisabeth b. shaw) writes:

>The book in question is TAROT SPELLS, by Janina Renee.  The publisher
>is Llewellyn, although I don't have an ISBN handy.  I'll have to post
>that when I have book in hand.
>Beth.
>
>beth@mintir.new-orleans.la.us

The ISBN is 0-87542-670-0
The Library of Congress Cat Number is 89-77199

The lib of Congress Cataloging-in-Publication Data is:

   Renee, Janina, 1956-
     Tarot spells / by Janina Renee.
       p. cm.--(Llewellyn's new age tarot series)
     Includes bibliographical references.
     ISBN 0-87542-670-0
     1. Tarot. 2. Magic. I title. II Series.
   BF1879.T2R46 1990
   133.3'2424--dc20                           89-77199
                                                   CIP

Its a good book, they use the Robin Wood tarot deck (this is where I
found out about this deck, its now the one I use the most).
        --Ed
Newsgroups: alt.divination
From: blowfish@carina.unm.edu (rON.)
Subject: New Topic: Reading for/about yourself...
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 09:07:19 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque


Greetings!
Just wanted to kick up some discussion around here. :)
Couple of questions-
1) How accurate do you find readings that you do for yourself? Do you have
a particular deck that you use for yourself and not for others? Do you have
any problems reading for yourself ever?

and

2) Have you ever done a reading for somebody else (especially a 'romance' based
reading) that had yourself in it?

r.
From: u2d92@seq1.keele.ac.uk (MJ Gumbley)
Newsgroups: alt.divination
Subject: Re: Tarot
Date: 18 Nov 92 23:05:07 GMT
Organization: Keele University, England

From vn Wed Nov 18 23:01:11 1992
From article <1992Nov18.032636.26442@samba.oit.unc.edu>, by Stephen.Pflugfelder@launchpad.unc.edu (Stephen Pflugfelder):
> I have tried to read cards in the past and they have been accurate, 
> but is there a way to read the cards without memorizing all 78 meanings?

Hello Stephen, I'm a beginner too, having started reading properly after
a short break from things occult-ish... My first pack was the "Cagliostro",
which has the normal and reversed meanings printed on the cards themselves.
I don't use these cards now, having switched to the Rider-Waite. The
Cagliostro Major Arcana carry quite nice designs (to me, anyway!) but the
Minor Arcana are just like playing cards with the appropriate meanings.

A recent speaker at the "Arcana Society" at Keele suggested meditating on
the cards, and trying to derive your own interpretation. You should say to
your cards: "Speak to me". The pack you choose should communicate a meaning
to you.

Hope this helps: may your spreads be favourable!

--
+==============================================================================+
  Matt J. Gumbley    u2d92@seq1.cc.keele.ac.uk    University of Keele, England
Newsgroups: alt.divination
From: blowfish@carina.unm.edu (rON.)
Subject: Re: rising signs, planetary tables
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 92 08:31:30 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
Keywords: rising signs


There is a group, alt.astrology- last I knew there was a quite decent
astrology program there.
r.
From: dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap)
Newsgroups: alt.divination
Subject: Re: New Topic: Reading for/about yourself...
Date: 20 Nov 92 19:49:27 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <#+mq!cq@lynx.unm.edu> blowfish@carina.unm.edu (rON.) writes:
>1) How accurate do you find readings that you do for yourself? Do you have
>a particular deck that you use for yourself and not for others? Do you have
>any problems reading for yourself ever?

I don't read myself often, but when I do, they're usually right.  It's
more difficult, though, since you tend to color your own readings into
what you want to see.  This happens less with others and rarely with
strangers. 

>2) Have you ever done a reading for somebody else (especially a
>   'romance' based reading) that had yourself in it?

Yes, but I didn't recognize the page of cups as being be until
afterwards! 



-- 
  |)  David Charlap          | .signature confiscated by FBI due to
 /|_  dic5340@hertz.njit.edu | an ongoing investigation into the
((|,)                        | source of these .signature virusses
 ~|~
Newsgroups: alt.divination
From: robg@citr.uq.oz.au (Rob Geraghty)
Subject: rising signs, planetary tables
Summary: program to produce tables?
Keywords: rising signs
Organization: Prentice Centre, University of Queensland
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 06:10:44 GMT

I was wondering if anyone knows of a PD program which can calculate the
rising sign given the date and time of birth and latitude and longitude.

I just bought a book last night and realised that the rising signs were
calculated for the United States - not very relevant here in Australia??

Does latitude have an effect on the planetary correspondances - I would
think this would be the same?

Does anyone have any comments on the effects of longitude and latitude
on horoscopes?

Thanks

Rob

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rob Geraghty               | 3 things are important to me 
robg@durian.citr.oz.au     | The gift of love, the joy of life
CITR                       | And the making of music in all its forms
From: IO20746@MAINE.MAINE.EDU
Newsgroups: alt.business.multi-level
Subject: Scam?
Date: 23 Nov 92 00:29:08 GMT
Organization: University of Maine System

Hello,
I was just curios ifanyone here was involved with the Patriot's
Network, and if so, and even if not so, is this a scam.  Legality?

thanks!
Newsgroups: alt.business.multi-level
From: dzeisman@alfred.carleton.ca (Derek Zeisman)
Subject: Wanted: Department store debt info
Keywords: Department stores, Woodward's Ltd, Retail bankrupties/debt
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 21:12:55 GMT

Carleton University (Ottawa, Ont.) journalism student is doing a major
research project, looking into how the recession and/or poor corporate
strategy is affecting retail profits in the Canadian/American
department store sector. In particular, I am seeking information on
this topic relating to the Woodward's Ltd. department store chain in
Western Canada. However, any general information, stats, opinions,
knowledge, etc. on the topic of department store sales (or lack
thereof) would be greatly appreciated. Anyone willing to speak on the
record with me about this topic, please contact me by E-mail.
-- Derek Zeisman
Newsgroups: alt.business.multi-level
From: news@sifon.cc.mcgill.ca
Subject: STOCK EXCHANGE
Organization: McGill University
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 20:22:59 GMT

DOES SOMEBODY KNOW WHAT IS THE EMAIL ADDRESS OF THE STOCK EXCHANGE
IN U.K OR USA?
PLEASE REPLY TO MC.STEX

Newsgroups: alt.business.multi-level
From: noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring)
Subject: Re: World Wide Dream Builders
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 17:33:50 GMT

In article cpc.systems@mhs.unc.edu (Carolyn Churchill) writes:
>In article news@rphroy.ph.gmr.com writes:

>>Does anyone have any info on "World Wide Dream Builders"?
>>
>>It supposedly handles 5000 products (from 300 companies) and
>>was founded by Bill Brit.

>World Wide Dream Builders is a group of Amway Distributors that
>are a downline of Bill Britt.  They handle the same products in 
>the same catalogs that all Amway Distributors can handle.

Actually, and not to nitpick, but WWDB, as well as INA (who spun off from
WWDB a few years ago), are not downline from Bill Britt at all.  However,
the Diamonds that made up the original WWDB asked and were allowed to plug
into Bill Britt's organization.

So, many aspects of how WWDB/INA run their organizations are much influenced
by the Britt organization of yore.

I apologize for being nitpicky, but there are a lot of WWDB/INA people here
who really are not familiar with the history of their organizations, nor
who even have the foggiest idea of who's in our upline above the Elliots.

Have a good day.

Jon

-- 
=============================================================================
| Jon Noring          | noring@netcom.com        | "The dogs bark, but the  |
| JKN International   | IP    : 192.100.81.100   |  caravan moves on."      |
| 1312 Carlton Place  | Phone : (510) 294-8153   | "Pack your lunch, sit in |
| Livermore, CA 94550 | V-Mail: (510) 862-1101   |  the bushes, and watch." |
=============================================================================
"If your annual income today is $50,000, you have the same buying power as
the average coal miner did in 1949, adjusted for taxes and inflation," John
Sestina, nationally recognized Certified Financial Planner;  quoted in 1987.

------->   I VOTED FOR PEROT IN '92
------->   support UNITED WE STAND!