HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: METZE@VMETZE.MRL.UIUC.EDU (Virginia Metze)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: rec.equestrian.racing => rec.sport.racing.horse
Date: 17 Nov 92 15:47:19 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.BxvAIy.2Co
Organization: Materials Research Laboratory
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.24




I get you now.  I thought it was sports and it is sport.  Also, I apparently
had a typo in the subject line, where I have sporting.

I thought at first you were telling me that there was already a
rec.sport.racing.horse, which I found it difficult to believe given
the trouble I have gone to in order to try to get something going here!

Thank you for the clarification!

Incidentally, I don't get much time to read news groups.  If there is
something posted here to which I should respond, please let me know.
Otherwise, I am leaving it to some of the rest of you who have expressed
interest in this to carry the ball.  I don't intend to monopolize or
even guide this news group -- just read/post when I have time!

--------------------------------------------------------
From:	SMTP%"moraes@deshaw.com" 17-NOV-1992 01:41:21.46
To:	METZE@VMETZE.MRL.UIUC.EDU
CC:	
Subj:	Re: rec.equestrian.racing => rec.sporting.racing.horse

From: Mark-Moraes@deshaw.com
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 01:47:06 -0500
Message-Id: <199211170647.AA09843@cs2.deshaw.com>
To: METZE@VMETZE.MRL.UIUC.EDU
Subject: Re: rec.equestrian.racing => rec.sporting.racing.horse
Newsgroups: news.groups

In news.groups you write:
>It has been suggested to me that rec.sports.racing.horse

Er, rec.sport.racing.horse. (rec.sport.* already exists).

Regards,
	Mark.


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Virginia Metze, speaking for no one but herself  + Impeach the Rehnquist
metze@vmetze.mrl.uiuc.edu                        + 5, 6, or 7
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
VMS cluster managers:  do you know where your queue manager is right now?
=============================================================================
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Dave Hayes)
Subject: Re: Intentional ignorance of newsgroup creation? (was Re: *BAD*...)
Reply-To: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov
Organization: Jet Propulsion Lab - Pasadena, CA
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 04:09:03 GMT

rsk@gynko.circ.upenn.edu (Rich Kulawiec) writes:
>>Oh come on, Rich! This cannot be substantiated...I could very well make 
>>up a whole bunch of email addresses and you could very well deny legitimate
>>once. That's exactly WHY I have not and will not "prove" anything. You
>>cannot PROVE that my name is even Dave Hayes...I could be Jerry Brown
>>for all you know. 
>Sigh.  Dave, I've spent a lot of time combing the backup tapes,
>going back through news archives...I have done all this in an attempt to
>document what happened and when, because I believe that it's
>a huge mistake to speculate when facts are available.  

Here's a real good example of why "facts" aren't really as conclusive as
you say they are:

I do not believe that you are Rich Kulawiec. How are you going to prove
that you are to me? Hmm?

Further, I do not believe that there was a pre vote discussion, or a vote.
How are you going to prove that to me? The entire thing could be a
forgery. 

>about them.  I am ready to be convinced of your case: but you will
>have to produce verifiable evidence and coherent arguments to sway me.
>I won't be convinced by innuendo, propaganda, insinuation, and
>unsubstantiated claims, which is all that you have offered so far.

I cannot substantiate *any* claim. It is impossible. So don't bother
being "convinced"...I'm willing to listen to your side of the story (and
I have) if you are willing to listen to mine. Attempts to call for
facts and substantiation are just (to me) attempts to stonewall.
-- 
Dave Hayes - Network & Communications Engineering - JPL / NASA - Pasadena CA
dave@elxr.jpl.nasa.gov       dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov         ...usc!elroy!dxh

By definition, when you are investigating the unknown, you do not know what you
will find or even when you have found it. 
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: dsg@impmh.uucp (Dave Gordon)
Subject: Re: RFD: misc.home.automation
Organization: Integrated Micro Products Ltd
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 11:50:52 GMT

In <BxnGHr.F9p@uunet.uu.net> CNTS12@email.mot.com (Mike Stevens) writes:
>I am inquiry regarding setting up a home automation user group.  I 
>periodically see information in consumers.house; however, that group takes 
>all issues as it relates to homes.

I would be very interested in such a group, and especially in some of
the topics suggested:

>X-10 controlled homes
>CEBus technology
>Smart House Technology
>Home security
>Integration of above systems in new and existing homes

One particular reason is that I am thinking of buying a house abroad,
which will be used as a holiday home and therefore be left unoccupied
for part of the time.  It would be rather neat to be able to call up
the house's control system via a modem to receive a status report, and
maybe download new instructions to it.
-- 

===============================================================================
Dave | dsg@imp.co.uk | +44 753 516599 | "C^i tio ne estas .subskribo"
===============================================================================
From: adc@tardis.cl.msu.edu (Alan D. Cabrera)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.games.netrek reorganization
Date: 22 Nov 92 15:49:52 GMT
Reply-To: adc@tardis.cl.msu.edu
Organization: Michigan State University

In article 2@cs.cmu.edu, hill@norman.VI.RI.CMU.EDU (Robert Hill) writes:
>Alan D. Cabrera writes
>> Where do I say that my idea is mainstream?  As I told you via personal
>> email I posted the RFD, request for DISCUSSION, because I wanted to
>> discuss the idea.  I tried to discuss it on r.g.n and all I got was
>> some flippant answers and a recomendation that if I was serious to post
>> an RFD; so I did, after several positive email responses for the
>> split.  I don't understand why everyone is taking this so personally.
>
>You didn't say that it was mainstream.

Thank you.  I'm tired of people conveniently leaving out contexts for
their own benefit.  Let me quote you:

In article 2@cs.cmu.edu, hill@norman.VI.RI.CMU.EDU (Robert Hill) writes:
>
> My recommendation is for alan to scrap the idea and to discuss possible
> future reorganizations on rec.games.netrek to see what the readers want
> out of rec.games.netrek, instead of assuming that his idea is the
> mainstream.


---
Alan Cabrera				internet:  adc@tardis.cl.msu.edu
Computer Laboratory			phone:     (517) 353-3027
Michigan State University		fax:       (517) 353-9847
514 Computer Center			bitnet:    CABRERA@MSU
East Lansing, MI 48824
Via: uk.ac.leeds.scs; Mon, 23 Nov 1992 21:51:42 +0000
Distribution: world
X-News-Gateway: NewsGateway@phaze.UUCP (NewsGateway 1.0 by Pierre Rioux)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 21:51:47 GMT
Newsgroups: news.groups
Organization: The University of Leeds, School of Computer Studies
From: ross-c@scs.leeds.ac.uk
To: usenet@phaze.cam.org
Cc: 
Subject: Re: Short comments, plus long rec.music.makers.* pre-vote discussion

In article <1992Nov23.060526.6354@bcrka451.bnr.ca> you write:
>In article <15013.9211211300@csparc2.scs.leeds.ac.uk> ross-c@scs.leeds.ac.uk writes:
>>
>>The attitude expressed by Ric K. makes me glad that I don't work at his
>>site. There may be repetition in your job, but this is the fault of your
>>job, not the people asking questions. If you don't like your job.....
>
>"job"?  What do you mean, "job"?  Most of the people who have created
>the current Usenet and the groups you so love to read and consider
>sacred, aren't doing it as part of a "job".  They're not getting paid

Hmmmm..... I interpreted Ric K's original comment being about his role as
a technical support or similar functionary in some organisation.

If he's referring to people to whom he's supplying a voluntary service, then
he can refuse to offer any service at all.

But that doesn't mean that he's acting to maintain fairness and equal say
on the net.

[sarcasm mode ON]

And of course, people can say that if we flame and annoy voluntary workers
on the net (of which there are many) then they might just stop providing 
their services and people downstream will suffer.....

*TRUE* This is *EXACTLY* what happened to the rec.music.synth to SYNTH-L
feed.

[sarcasm mode OFF]

And what happened to various people who said they would make a new feed to
supply people with no usenet access rec.music.synth? Has there been any action?

Cheers,

Ross-c
From: miket@frog.CRDS.COM (Michael C Tiernan)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: Is there a general fault-tolerance news group?
Keywords: fault tolerance
Date: 16 Nov 92 19:21:23 GMT
Organization: Charles River Data Systems

shuford@cs.utk.edu (Richard Shuford) writes:
>   momtahan@bnrca (Parham Momtahan) writes:
>>
>> Can anyone tell me if there is a more general news group for
>> fault tolerant computing discussions? 
>
>At present there is no newsgroup in Usenet devoted to the discussion
>of fault tolerance.
>

Might I suggest a good place to start the discussions for such a subject
would be in "comp.realtime" as well as "alt.industrial.computing".  I
can't imagine that you'd not get a good turnout of responses on such a
subject.
-- 
<< MCT >>  Michael C Tiernan. - GEnie:M.Tiernan - AOL:M Tiernan/BCS Mike 
UUCP = alfalfa!pro-angmar!m.tiernan OR miket@frog.UUCP
      It's too bad that it takes almost half of our life
	to realize that it was a "Do-It-Yourself" project.
From: randall-joshua@yale.edu (Joshua Randall)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Straw Poll - Rec.games.frp.campaign (Was: something else)
Date: 17 Nov 1992 12:38:51 -0500
Organization: Yale University Science & Engineering UNIX(tm), New Haven, CT 06520-2158
NNTP-Posting-Host: minerva.cis.yale.edu

In article <1eb9f2INN698@charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu> tdunn@ecst.csuchico.edu (Tim Dunn) writes:
>Bruce Norman writes:
>>I wasn't trying to pull a "fast one" with my Straw Vote.  When it says 
>>discussion of campaign will continue if 100 votes were received, I mean
>>only if 100 positive votes are received.  
>
>And the NO votes go to data heaven?  This is still the same straw vote
>proposal you had before then.  Tricky, tricky, tricky.....

Damn!  Men, I must hang my head in shame, for I foolishly sent a "NO"
vote to Bruce, thinking that it would actually do some good.  Now he
will count as a vote to continue this worthless discussion.  Forgive
me, friends, for I have been decieved by this fiend.

-- 
Joshua E. Randall                       randall-joshua@yale.edu
Xref: sparky news.groups:22805 news.admin.policy:581
From: randall-joshua@yale.edu (Joshua Randall)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Bad Attributions
Date: 18 Nov 1992 19:08:25 -0500
Organization: Yale University Science & Engineering UNIX(tm), New Haven, CT 06520-2158
NNTP-Posting-Host: minerva.cis.yale.edu

In article <1782@frackit.UUCP> dave@frackit.UUCP (Dave Ratcliffe) writes:
>
> In article <BxFHyu.8HI@ccu.umanitoba.ca>, ijaz@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Tahir Ijaz) writes:
> > In <1992Nov5.222013.5810@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> rana@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (Nabeel Ahmad Rana) writes:
> > 
> > >randall-joshua@yale.edu (Joshua Randall) writes:
> > >Sir, this is one of the main reasons for the demand of such a
> > >newsgroup. Soc.religion.islam.ahmadiyya would be form for such
> > >debates. Ahmadiyya Islam is a topic which interests people from
> > >all religious backgrounds.

I don't know who messed things up, but I did *not* write the paragraph
starting "Sir, this is one...".  Please be more careful with
attributions, people!

-- 
Joshua E. Randall                       randall-joshua@yale.edu
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: farrow@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (J. Scott Farrow)
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.games.netrek reorganization
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 18:32:40 GMT

ppregler@risc.uni-linz.ac.at (Peter Pregler) writes:

>In article <62177@mimsy.umd.edu>, leonard@mimsy.umd.edu (Leonard Dickens) writes:
>> I think that r.g.n.announce would be a very useful group to start.
>> The netrek community is very productive of interesting announcements.
>> 
>In order to prevent postings like 'you are the only one ....' I second this.
>Leonard's arguments are my arguments.

>You need another example? How many (silly) inquiries did you read about RSA the
>last few week? Lot's of people seemed to miss the information that was posted.
>IMHO, r.g.n.announce(moderated) would have helped.

>-Peter.

>-- 
>Make a remark, it's ridiculous to leave all the conversation to the pudding.
>-------------------------------
>Peter Pregler / RISC, University of Linz, Austria
>Bitnet: K315470@AEARN.BITNET  Internet: ppregler@risc.uni-linz.ac.at

Hmm. Good point. I myself posted one of those silly inquiries about RSA the
other day. 

I didn't pay any attention to the RSA discussions until I saw the 
"BRONCO is: RSA" subject line. Then, I realized it might be important.

I've changed my mind, I would now support the r.g.n.announce newsgroup.

As far as the .programmer newsgroup goes, I still don't think it should be
moderated. That accomplishes nothing.

Scott
(aka Necron)
--
************* Repeal Amendment 2! - Shame On You, Colorado. ******************
J. Scott Farrow-Student SysAdmin/Programmer, University of Colorado at Boulder
Computing & Network Services, Boulder, Colorado, USA, phone: (303) 492-4428
Internet: farrow@spot.colorado.edu, farrow@cs.colorado.edu
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: rick@crick.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu (Richard H. Miller)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: sci.engr.power
Date: 16 Nov 1992 22:40:27 GMT
Organization: Baylor College of Medicine, Houston, Tx
NNTP-Posting-Host: crick.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu
Keywords: power engineering, new group, request for discussion

1) How much traffic is there on the exiting sci.engr. Not a lot is there
so why do you need a news group? You also overlap with sci.energy and 
sci.engr.control. 

2) Why do we need a subgroup of electrical engineering when there is not 
even a group for eletrical engineering yet?

Remember that I have yet to see any group which has caused traffic to appear
because it was created. Unless you can show some justification of why this
group needs to be created and how it is different than the ezisting groups
I will be opposed to its creation, especially since the charter in this case
duplicates an existing news group which also has very low traffic


-- 
Richard H. Miller                 Email: rick@bcm.tmc.edu
Asst. Dir. for Technical Support  Voice: (713)798-3532
Baylor College of Medicine        US Mail: One Baylor Plaza, 302H
                                           Houston, Texas 77030
Xref: sparky news.groups:22514 news.admin.policy:499
From: andy@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Andrew Hackard)
Newsgroups: news.groups,news.admin.policy
Subject: Re: RF(Informal)D: Standard RFD/CFV Format
Keywords: RFD CFV formats guidelines votes
Date: 20 Nov 92 03:14:54 GMT
Followup-To: news.groups,news.admin.policy
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

randall-joshua@yale.edu (Joshua Randall) writes:
>andy@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Andrew Hackard) writes:

>[stuff deleted]

>>The only real change I see is the addition of the "groups affected" line in
>                                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>the first screen -- thus, renames could put the old groups in that line,
>>while wholly new proposals (comp.sys.etch.a.sketch) could simply put "none"
>>there.

>Problem:  while in some case it may be clear which groups are
>affected, I can envision a horrible new breed of flamewars over this
>very subject.  Just which groups *does*, say, r.g.f.campaign affect.

misc.test, of course.  :-)

I can see making a case for r.g.frp.archives, and possibly
r.g.frp.{dnd,misc}.  r.g.design would make some sense.  The MUD groups
don't, and the ST rpg is discussed in r.g.frp.misc; people who attempt to
discuss it in r.a.st.* usually get redirected to r.g.frp.*, in the ST
groups' well-known gentle manner.  ;-)

>Do you see what I mean?  Practically *any* group can be claimed to be
>related to any other, at least for the purposes of saying "I missed
>the vote so it doesn't count".

I do see your point.  I don't, however, think that failure to catch a
niggling connection should invalidate the vote.  I proposed this to
*reduce* flamage, not eliminate it. (Pipe dream, I know.)

Thanks for your suggestions.  Any other comments?

--
--Andrew Hackard                                 If I spoke for UT, this post
  andy@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu                        would make even less sense.

"If we keep alienating those who are ignorant or meek, what are we
     becoming?"  
"Informed and assertive?"  -- Dave Hayes and Chip Salzenberg, in news.groups
Xref: sparky news.groups:21903 soc.culture.indian:37111 soc.culture.pakistan:16713 soc.culture.bangladesh:5931
From: ahmed-shakil@cs.yale.edu (Shakil Waiz Ahmed)
Newsgroups: news.groups,soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Re: CFV: soc.religion.islam.ahmadiyya moderated
Date: 15 Nov 1992 17:48:01 -0500
Organization: Yale University Computer Science Dept., New Haven, CT 06520-2158
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: curie.systemsy.cs.yale.edu


In article <ZAHIN.92Nov15132325@occs.cs.oberlin.edu>, zahin@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Kazi Zahin S. Hasan) writes:
> In article <1e4gm1INNhg4@CURIE.SYSTEMSY.CS.YALE.EDU> ahmed-shakil@cs.yale.edu (Shakil Waiz Ahmed) writes:
> 
> >  So tell me, if I declared myself a prophet and claimed I was the
> >  *last* prophet and started my own sect, do you think the Ahmadiyas would
> >  accept that as a part of Islam?  And if I started my own mosque here
> >  in New Haven for this new faith, would you pray beside me?
> 
> If your hypothetical "shakilist" sect satisfied the following
> conditions, then I would be consider its devotees to be Muslims.
> Note that the beliefs of the Ahamdia sect do not contradict any of
> these. 
> 
> 1.	The faith must contain some, if not all, of the
> humanitarianism which I believe is essential to Islam. 	If you
> postulated that any group of people - whether "shakilist" or "heretic",
> whether male or female - should be denied any of their human rights, I
> would keep my distance.
> 
> 2.	The faith must not be dogmatic. It must allow, as does Islam,
> its believers the use of their judgement. 
> 
> 3.	Lastly, and least important: the faith must be monotheistic,
> and must acknowledge Muhammad as *a* prophet of God.
> 
> Note that I would be willing to pray with any person for whose
> religion (1) and (2) are true. However, i would not consider them
> Muslims unless (3) were also true.

Good.  So you would consider Bahais to be Muslims too?  Clearly, they
satisfy all of your conditions, wherever you may have gotten them
from... (Certainly not from God through the usual channels, i.e. the
Qur'an, but perhaps you have had some divine revelation that we're
unaware of?)

> >  How about a CFV for soc.religion.islam.Zahin? ;)
> 
> How flattering. :) But why give me undue credit? I think
> soc.religion.islam.spirituality would more than fit the bill.

I think that would depend on how large your following would be... :)

-- Shakil
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: strom@Watson.Ibm.Com (Rob Strom)
Subject: Re: RF(Informal)D: Standard RFD/CFV Format
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 18:57:40 GMT
Organization: IBM Research
Keywords: RFD CFV formats guidelines votes

In article <1e7f04INNkka@MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU>, randall-joshua@yale.edu (Joshua Randall) writes:
|> In article <1992Nov16.050533.18672@watson.ibm.com> strom@Watson.Ibm.Com (Rob Strom) writes:
|> 
|> [deletion]
|> 
|> >My proposal is to require the name of the group
|> >affected by a name change to appear in the subject
|>  ^^^^^^^^
|> >line of the RFD or CFV. [...]
|> 
|> Again, I must ask, who will decide which groups are affected, and how
|> will he decide?  Perhaps I have not made myself clear:  just as there
|> are now people claiming votes are invalid because they were not aware
|> a vote was taking place, in your proposed future arrangement, there
|> will be people claiming votes are invalid because their group was not
|> considered to be "affected" by the vote, and thus had no notification
|> posted to it.
|> 

I probably wasn't clear.  I meant *directly* affected.
For example, if rec.music.synth is renamed to rec.music.makers.synth,
then rec.music.synth is directly affected, and (if my
proposal is adopted) its name must appear in the subject line.

People can argue until the cows come home about indirect effects.
Perhaps the rename indirectly affects rec.music.compose, because
people might stop posting about composing there because it's
not a "music making" group.  

I meant the more obvious effect --- e.g., if the vote passes,
such-and-such a news group isn't going to be there any more.

-- 
Rob Strom, strom@watson.ibm.com, (914) 784-7641
IBM Research, 30 Saw Mill River Road, P.O. Box 704, Yorktown Heights, NY  10598
From: igj@leland.Stanford.EDU (Ian Glen Jacobs)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: misc.jobs.non-computers
Summary: Support
Date: 18 Nov 92 23:58:13 GMT
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA

In the few hours I since I have posted this I have been innundated with mail, most in support of the idea (but some detractors);

One of the positives:
   Add one more in favor vote. I think this was brought up before and
dropped, but I would very much like to see a group that is for the types
of jobs which aren't for programmers/CS majors. Although my career may
involve software development, +99% of the job openings posted are
inappropriate for my job search. I imagine employers don't post too many
"non-computer" jobs because their post would just be "lost" among all
the other posts, and many "non-computer" job hunters don't use this
group for very long because it is so hard to find that 1 in 100 posts
that may be appropriate. It is just a vicious cycle which can only be
remedied by the creation of a new group.

Just my opinions,
David M. Russell 


Any more opinions... 
the group title could be something unweildy like: misc.jobs.offered.noncom or something to specify it is for jobs offered or it could be less limited and of a freer structure (including discussion and job-seekers as well)...


-I-
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: millerl@wharton.upenn.edu
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD rec.games.netrpg
Date: 19 Nov 92 19:04:49 GMT
Followup-To: news.groups
Organization: Newt World Order

Bad idea. Bad name. It's been hashed out before, and we went with
rec.games.design rather than rec.games.frp.design, which is a much
better name for what you want to do. There's no need to migrate the
discussion out since it's only been going on for one or two weeks. Once
the net.rpg discussion has lasted for six months or a year at the same
amount of discussion *then* you can talk about a newsgroup. But right
now the discussion fits in the charter of this newsgroup, and this
newsgroup has little to no traffic of any other sort, so why request a
new newsgroup to hold this traffic when you already have a de facto
dedicated newsgroup to do it?

-- 
whoah,
+++++++++++++++++++++++23
Loren Miller                           internet: MILLERL@wharton.upenn.edu
Mediocrity is a hand rail.                         -- Baron de Montesquieu
Newsgroups: news.groups