HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: U5984@WVNVM.BITNET
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: (none)
Date: 11 Nov 92 16:14:19 GMT
Organization: The Internet

Subject:   Re: The Pr. of the Far Isles

 To the Gentle Denizens of the Rialto,
     I had the great pleasure of spending a weekend in the fall of 1988 CE in
the company of the gentles of the Principality of the Far Isles, and although m
y knowledge of their ways is necessarily incomplete and may be blurred and tint
ed by  vagaries of the mind,if one will listen then one will speak.
     The event was held at St. Briavells's  (one of King John's hunting lo
dges) on the Welsh border (oh excess!).  Their were over sixty gentles present,
 and their may have been a good deal more than that.  I had the impression
that this was one of their main events of the year.
     Activities included rattan combat (relatively light calibration), and semi
-choreographed dull-steel fighting of the sort seen at Sealed Knot events.  Com
bat archery using wooden shafts and small rubber blunts was also practiced.
A thriving guild structure existed, and clear guidelines were in practice for
ranking within guild hierarchy.
     Bardic contests and "duels" between groups were common, with shires invent
ing nasty songs about one anotherer and singing them during feasts.  The Bardic
 guild was awarded especially high esteem, and seemed to have especially
difficult standards for rank advancement.
     In general, garb standards were higher than those seen at SCA events wher
eas armor standards were far more lax.  Authenticity was more highly stressed,
occasionaly to the point of discomfort. I was under the impression that her
highness (Eloise? Heloise?) was selected by popular acclaim rather than through
combat, and had served for years (having started out as a baroness and looking
forward to queenly status when her followers were sufficiently numerous).

                                            Morien MacBain,
                                            Misty Highlands,
                                            Aethelmarc
From: reynolds@yin.ucsd.edu (Andy Reynolds)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Medieval Astronomy
Date: 9 Nov 1992 04:56:10 GMT
Organization: UC San Diego
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: song.ucsd.edu
Originator: reynolds@song

Greetings good people,
	
	I am interested in astronomy in these present times and was wondering
if anyone might know of any sources of info on astronomy in the middle ages?
I am particularly interested in 11th-13th century methods.  I am looking for
anything that might give me an idea of how to practice the science (or art)
in a period way.  Any help would be appreciated.

				Blessings,
				Andreu Pedley
				Of the College of St. Artemas Archers

				(reynolds@yin.ucsd.edu)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: bchapman@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Bruce Patrick Chapman)
Subject: Re: You Know You're In The SCA......
Organization: Brock University, St. Catharines Ontario
Distribution: world 
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 14:40:23 GMT

In article <Bx95Aq.95J@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> jael@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Jael) writes:
>
>Your children learn "sword hand" and "shield hand" long before learning
>"right" and "left."
>
>This is also how we teach our stick jocks to dance....

	which is fine unless you happen to be a sinister fighter...

cat
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This is forwarded mail.  Please send all comments etc. to the following
		address: <9005904@mcmaster.bitnet>
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Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: jeffs@math.bu.EDU (Jeff Suzuki)
Subject: Science and ARt
Organization: The Internet
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 17:22:28 GMT


How 'bout this for the difference between science and art: in science,
you don't care (and --- usually --- prefer!) if it comes out identical
the second time; in art, you consciously try to make it different on
the repeat?

Tio d'Abaco
From: bq434@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael A. Chance)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: authenticity
Date: 6 Nov 1992 19:00:20 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: bq434@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael A. Chance)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, A'isha bint Jamil wrote:

>Other than either tasting it, or failing to smell alcohol, how would
>you differentiate between Coke and a dark beer?  I submit that neither
>taste nor smell are useful in detecting the difference unless you are
>too close for polite public behavior.

Many years ago, when I first joined the SCA, the old-time members of the
area referred to Coca-Cola as "Northwoods Dark Ale", and Pepsi-Cola as
"Wurmwald Dark Ale", an apparent reference to the preferred beverages of
the respective baronies.  The early years of the Kingdom of Calontir
also saw a pseudo-religious war surrounding the identity of the "One
True Cola".

Mikjal Annarbjorn
-- 
Michael A. Chance          St. Louis, Missouri, USA    "At play in the fields
Work: mc3078@sw1sta.sbc.com                             of St. Vidicon"
Play: bq434@cleveland.freenet.edu
      mchance@nyx.cs.du.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: parr@acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr)
Subject: Re: swords
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 92 15:20:51 GMT
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta

In article <720830970.F00001@ocitor.fidonet> Beth.Appleton@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Beth Appleton) writes:
> MS> I suggest the chicken's way out?  Don't hold an event where there
> MS> might be gun-totin' rednecks.  If you have really been disturbed
> MS> by idiots, who brandish firearms, let them run you off to a safer
> MS> place.
> Oops!  There goes Ansteorra!  And, I suspect, Meridies.  Not to 
> mention various parts of Calontir......... :^>

I have found it interesting that people who have advised us to
"avoid risky sites" have all been easterners. 

There are *no* safe sites. Even if there *are* safe sites, I want
the constables to assume that the site is *unsafe*.

Better over cautious and over vigilant, than careless and
in trouble.

Can anyone with experience in site security post stories
of the "I remember when" form? I'd like to hear about
*any* problems, how they were overcome, and what you might
do today...

Carolus Malvoix
seriously bruised
testy
-- 
Within the span of the last few weeks I have heard elements of
separate threads which, in that they have been conjoined in time,
struck together to form a new chord within my hollow and echoing
gourd. --Unknown net.person
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mjc+@cs.cmu.edu (Monica Cellio)
Subject: medieval music (was: Strip the Willow )
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 18:40:10 GMT

Simon writes:

>I don't really know enough about dance, but in the field of music pretty
>much anything between Gregorian chant and Baroque is considered Renaissance
>--- the application and development of a notation for secular music is
>considered a priori part of the Renaissance.

Considered by whom?  This is not an assertion I've encountered before.
While I do not have anything resembling a mundane degree in music history,
I have done less formal studying and have talked to others who have studied
both formally and informally.  Some consider the start of the Ars Nova
(late 13th century) to be the end of the medieval period as far as music 
is concerned, but even that's a minority opinion (the more common opinion 
being about the time everyone else calls the renaissance) and it's 
considerably later than chant besides.  I have never heard a defintion that
was tied to notation rather than content.

Sources?

Ellisif
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: ldh@eedsp.gatech.edu (Lonnie D Harvel)
Subject: Re: swords
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology - DSP
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 19:41:31 GMT

In article <92Nov06.152051.24427@acs.ucalgary.ca>, parr@acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr) writes:
|> 
|> I have found it interesting that people who have advised us to
|> "avoid risky sites" have all been easterners. 

I guess it is safer over here.
|> 
|> There are *no* safe sites. 

Almost all the sites in Meridies are safe.  However, I wouldn't
wear that doeskin cloak and white hat during hunting season.  It
would be very dangerous.  I tend to wear bright colors
throughout this season, especailly on camping events! :)

|> Even if there *are* safe sites, I want
|> the constables to assume that the site is *unsafe*.
|> 
|> Better over cautious and over vigilant, than careless and
|> in trouble.

Agreed!
[stuff deleted.]
|> Carolus Malvoix

Aoghann

-- 
     The comments and spelling herein are mine and nobody
                     else lays claim to them.
================================================================
Lonnie D. Harvel                 |  ldh@eedsp.gatech.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: vader@meryl.csd.uu.se ("]ke Eldberg")
Subject: CB radios; archery impressions
Organization: The Internet
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 19:25:45 GMT

Greetings from William de Corbie!

CB radio at events

Charles wrote:

>We used small headsets at Sept crown this year, and they were
>very useful to the constables. On two occasions during my
>patrols I was dispatched to specific places to investigate
>specific potential problems. Regretably, the crown expressed
>a dislike for the OOP nature of the headsets, and asked that
>they not be warned. We compromised by wearing hoods over them,
>but would probably have refused to give them up: They were
>inavaluable.

Radio Shack has a type of short-range radios which does
not use headsets but just an ear plug. There is no mike;
the plug picks up your voice through the ear when you
transmit. They work very well, and are much less conspicuous
at events than headsets. Slightly more expensice.

---
Archery impressions

Angharad/Terry writes, about non-medieval equipment:

>The question, I suspect, (or at least part of it) is whether it
>disturbs the atmosphere for those _using_ the bows. We are not
>performers.  We are doers, and it is our _own_ atmosphere, _as
>we do things_, that many of us cherish.

This is undoubtedly an important observation. I feel
very medieval when doing Strip the Willow. But people
keep telling me it is wrong -- so obviously it is not enough
that it feels medieval to me.

William

From: Beth.Appleton@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Beth Appleton)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: swords
Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1992 14:36:56

 MS> I suggest the chicken's way out?  Don't hold an event where there
 MS> might be gun-totin' rednecks.  If you have really been disturbed
 MS> by idiots, who brandish firearms, let them run you off to a safer
 MS> place.
 Oops!  There goes Ansteorra!  And, I suspect, Meridies.  Not to 
 mention various parts of Calontir......... :^>
     Gwenllian Cwmystwyth
       Steppes, Ansteorra

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mjc+@cs.cmu.edu (Monica Cellio)
Subject: Pikestaff Arts & Sciences Issue
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 14:51:20 GMT

Hi all!

I've received a few inquiries about this, so I thought I'd just post.

The Pikestaff Arts and Sciences issue will be available later this month.
This year's issue is 72 pages and is packed full of good articles.  The
table of contents is at the end of this post.  People who receive Pikestaff
will receive copies; others may purchase copies for $2.50.  Send a check
payable to "SCA Inc, Pikestaff" to:
	Monica Cellio
	7634 Westmoreland Ave.
	Pittsburgh, PA 15218

A few copies of past A&S issues are available as well; the 1990 issue 
(40 pages) is $1.75 and the 1991 issue (60 pages) is $2.  Prices include
postage.

Ellisif Flakkari, East Kingdom Chronicler


Table of Contents -- 1992 A&S Issue

Astronomy 

3  Astronomy As Practiced (by Courtly People in Medieval Europe) 
   by Anton of Winteroak

Garb, Textiles, and Needlework 

8  Toward a Byzantine Garb Aesthetic 
   by Mairi ni Raghaillaigh

11 Metallic Trims for Some Early Period Personae 
   by Thora Sharptooth

15 Recreating a Historical Yellow from the Ground Up 
   by Elayne Courtenay

17 Fabric Shopping for 9th-12th Century Western Europe: How to Recognize Herringbone Twills 
   by Nicolette Bonhomme

19 How to Make a Copy of the Coronation Alb of the Holy Roman Emperors, @1500 AD 
   by Tauna Aelswith

21 New Sources for Viking Men's Garb 
   by Marieke van de Dal

23 Practical Opus Anglicanum 
   by Alison MacDermot

The Written Word 

28 On Printers' Flowers 
   by Bertram of Bearington

31 Some Highlights in the History of Waxed Tablets 
   by Dofinn-Hallr Morrisson and Thora Sharptooth

33 Building Simple Waxed Tablets 
   by Dofinn-Hallr Morrisson and Arval Benicoeur

37 How to Prepare and Gild with Gum Ammoniac 
   by Peter the Goldsmith

Food and Drink

39 Recipes 
   by Ian Damebrigge of Wychwood

40 On the Uses of Vinegar 
   by Marian Greenleaf

42 Nebeedh 
   by Richard the Poor of Ely

43 Gingerbread 
   by Michaele del Vaga

Plants

45 Sacred Plants of the Celts, the Anglo-Saxons, and the Vikings 
   by Ingvild Josefsdatter

Poetry

48 Alba II 
   by Dorigen of the Grey Gate

49 Anglo-Saxon Poetry 
   by Mord Hrutsson the Green

50 Eleanor of Aquitaine 
   by Esperanza Halevi

51 A Chaucerian Poem 
   by Ilaine de Cameron

Music, Dance, and Theatre

52 Recreating the Disguising of Hope and Desire 
   by Catrin o'r Rhyd For

54 The Ars Subtilior 
   by Leah Esteriana

56 On Dance Etiquette 
   by Richard Tyler of Swiftwater

58 A Short Discourse Upon the Innermost Secret Workings of the Portative Organ 
   by Henry MacQueen of Longhouse

Poetry

62 Sonnet 
   by Fiana of Clare

Ceremony

63 A Tenth-Century Viking Peerage Ceremony 
   by Arval Benicoeur and Thora Sharptooth

67 Tea in Medieval Japan 
   by Kitahama Miyuki

Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 10:02:23 -0500 
From: Kevin William Ryan <kr0u+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: "period" wristwatches

    In doing some research on a pet project of mine I ran across a
number of references to portable sundials. Accurate to within 10-15
minutes, even for the very small ones. The simplest was a 1.5 inch
diameter ring with a pinhole in one side, a string from the top, and a
scale (marked with the months) on the inside showing the time. Hold it
up, turn it until the dot of light hits the right monthly scale, and
there you have the time. There are also the various card sundials
working on similar principles: line up a sight with the sun, and a
hanging cord (with a bead that can be slipped to the proper scale to
reflect the month) pointing out the time of day. I'm tempted to make up
a few and market them at next Pennsic. Of course, this presupposes that
the sun is out... moondials are much more complicated to use.

    For unobtrusive modern timepieces I recommend putting your watch in
a pouch or getting a small pocket watch and hanging it around your neck
inside your tunic. 

                                                    kwr
                                        aka Donnallain o'r Galaru Glais

Internet: kr0u+@andrew.cmu.edu

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca,alt.sca,news.answers
From: Joy.Hanson@fbbs.omahug.org (Joy Hanson)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Filk vs. Recreation (was Re: out-of-period dancing)
Date: 04 Nov 92 13:27:28 CST
Reply-To: joy.hanson@fbbs.omahug.org
Organization: Friend's BBS, Omaha
Followup-To: rec.org.sca

Greetings unto Richard Britnel of Salisbury,
.
What a delight to see another traveler from the city from whence I also
hail!  Just wanted to send greetings and hopes that your travels are
safe.
Lady Juelda of Salisbury, Kingdom of Calontir
From: salley@niktow.canisius.edu (David Salley)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Scadians
Date: 9 Nov 92 01:32:39 GMT
Organization: Canisius College, Buffalo NY. 14208

William de Corbie writes:
> By "all of us", I did not mean idiots, analphabets, the mentally
> handicapped, people who never went to school, who are deaf and blind
               ^^^^^^                           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> (or dead), natives from the New Guinea jungle, or small furry creatures
> from Alpha Centauri. I meant normal people with an interest in the
> middle ages and renaissance -- the kind of people who make up the SCA.

*Ahem!*  Permit me to point out that my local group contains one deaf woman,
one blind woman, and five people in wheelchairs.  Any suggestion that these
people don't belong in the SCA will probably get you thrown out of the hall,
bodily with an invitation not to come back.
                                                       - Dagonell

SCA Persona : Lord Dagonell Collingwood of Emerald Lake, CSC, CK, CTr
Habitat	    : East Kingdom, AEthelmearc Principality, Rhydderich Hael Barony
Disclaimer  : A society that needs disclaimers has too many lawyers.
Internet    : salley@niktow.cs.canisius.edu
USnail-net  : David P. Salley, 136 Shepard Street, Buffalo, New York 14212-2029
Pirates of the Carribean Event - Dec 12 - Rhydderich Hael - Write for details.
From: robd@cherry09.cray.com (Robert Derrick)
Subject: A song request (or: does anyone know Gareth of Brandywine Gorge?)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: 11 Nov 92 22:49:58 CST

Many years ago I heard a fellow, named, as I recall, Gareth of 
Brandywine Gorge, sing a song about Fire.  But not Fire in the
sense of the destructive, but the Fire down below, if you get
my meaning.  A lovely bawdy song, for which he won a prize at
the Grand Outlandish Bardic.  I thought that I would either
run into the fellow or the song again, for sure.  But I have
not.

So, if anyone out there knows Gareth, could you do me the kindness
of asking him if he would be willing to share the song with me.

Or perhaps you know it!  Let me know as well.

Thank you all very much.
--

Daulatshah Burunduq al'Kashgari
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: 76520.3531@compuserve.COM (Jack Thompson)
Subject: Not a flame
Organization: The Internet
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 07:55:55 GMT

The address for Colophon Book Arts Supply (linen thread and other good 
stuff) is:  3046 Hogum Bay Road, N.E., Olympia, WA  98506. (206) 459-2940.

And now (not a flame; flames come from family, and I'm not a member of any
SCA chapter), just a thought or two form one who has spent too many hours
in recent days looking through SCA downloads for useful data.  Is it 
important whether or not dances/bows/arrows/Coke/etc. are period?  
It is a matter of little consequence to me; I was not (probably will not be)
there.  However, the discussions would have value if couched in terms of
"this is what ...."  I would enjoy reading a posting which described a
period dance, or ....  I learn little from reading that a,b,c,...n does not
approve of whatever the hell offends them.  Where are the data?  
Patents?  Oaths of fealty?  These are matters of state, not debate.  Or so it
it seems to me.  If I'm wrong, it's my neck on the block.  Find the neck.
And then find the block.  And then try to put the two together.
And, for the record, I fight dirty.  How do you think I got to be so old.
Let me see, I think that's a :-); yes, that's right.
Submitted with all due humility, M'lords, M'ladies.
Jack C. Thompson  off in the ether   >76520.3531@compuserve.com<

Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Subject: Re: Voting Analysis
Organization: AT&T
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 03:10:54 GMT

In article <mike_steiner-101192123813@192.35.50.131> mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner) writes:
>In article <1992Nov9.150238.1762@nntpd.lkg.dec.com>, edp@math.zk3.dec.com
>(Eric Postpischil) wrote...
>
>...more of the same old stuff.
>
>The fact remains that if a statistically significant number of people do
>not vote, the only thing that can be determined from this fact alone is
>that x% of the people (or stated number of people) did not vote.  A
>person's not voting can be for any of a number of reasons, the most
>prevelent being indifference.  This reason is so prevelant that it drowns
>out any other "message" any individual might want to send by not voting,
>and is the only one considered by politicians and the press.

What you have said here is, and has been, obvious for some time, and 
has been stated by everyone except one person who is in a bind as to
how to bow out of this gracefully.  It has been a waste of time to
all for that long as well, so let's drop it.

...How 'bout those Cubs!?!?

GMS
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: edp@math.zk3.dec.com (Eric Postpischil)
Subject: Re: Voting Analysis
Reply-To: edp@math.zk3.dec.com (Eric Postpischil)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 15:02:38 GMT

In article <1992Nov9.001841.10616@eagercon.com>, eager@eagercon.com
(Michael J. Eager) writes:

>Second, the "positive outcome" is your postulate.  This is not a conclusion
>on your part.

It is a conclusion:  The premise is that all the candidates are
repugnant to the subject, and that even the office itself is repugnant. 
Sending a message to that effect is a positive outcome becuase it
furthers the goals of the subject.

>You have not shown any medium for the message to be communicated, . . .

Newspapers, records maintained by the secretaries of state, et cetera.

> . . . any recipient, . . . . 

I have in fact demonstrated that members of the Libertarian Party
received the message.

>Third, the "zero value" of voting was a conclusion which you arrived at by 
>starting with that as it's premise.

Voting has a zero (or negative) value because it is contrary to the
desires of the subject.  The subject does not want _any_ candidate to
take the office in question; voting in no way whatsoever furthers that
goal.  Its value is therefore zero or less.


> . . .voting does carry a 
>simple and clear message, which is generally quite reliably communicated.

Voting may carry a message, but it is the wrong message; it is a message
the subject does not wish to send and therefore has no value.


                                -- edp (Eric Postpischil)
                                "Always mount a scratch monkey."
                                edp@rusure.enet.dec.com
From: hbonney@io.Tymnet.COM (Hugh Bonney)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Ottawa & Montreal events?
Date: 6 Nov 92 06:03:04 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: BT North America (Tymnet)
Originator: hbonney@io


  May I ask if there are any events that might be of
  interest and welcome a traveler over the weekend of
  Nov 26-30 in Ottawa and/or Montreal? I do not know
  if there are chapters there (I am sorry, I do not
  speak French).

  Thank you,     Hugh

  --415-961-6286---------408-922-6198--work--------
    hbonney@tymnet.com,  dialcom  31000:hughb
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: Rick Bates <Bates_R*Corp_C@msm.cdx.mpt.com>
Subject: Re: Why manhole covers are round
Organization: Motorola Codex
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 19:17:20 GMT
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1
     <BxD8Cw.JJ6@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>
     <1992Nov7.170456.1@vms.ocom.okstate.edu>

Why manhole covers are round
I always thought it was because manholes are round.