From: skok@itwds1.energietechnik.uni-stuttgart.de (Holger Skok)
Subject: Re: The Problem with UNIX
Organization: Inst. f. Thermodynamik u. Waermetechnik (ITW), U. of Stuttgart, FRG
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 09:39:52 GMT

In article <1992Nov11.194557.16258@yarc.uucp> scott@yarc.UUCP (Scott Beckstead) writes:
>In article <aldavi01.721333614@starbase.spd.louisville.edu> Arlie Davis <aldavi01@starbase.spd.louisville.edu> writes:
[...stuff deleted]
>
>  I think this is kinda what he is trying to determine.  Typicaly UNIX
>imposes far more structure on the user than is desired.  I agree an
>experienced user should be able to recognize and avoid the problems
>above.  What's wrong with the shell catching such obvious errors and
>either reporting them or taking other appropriate action (ie correcting
>them).  I realize that this will get me screamed at by all you guru
>types that advocate that all shell users be rocket scientists or why
>bother using a computer anyway.  However I see no reason NOT to research
>the subject.  If UNIX could be made more user friendly by modifying the
>shell it might gain more acceptance in the general microcomputer market
>place, GUIs not withstanding.
>Scott
>

I don't know whether that would help much. My main gripe with UN*X (and
its CLI) is a lack of standardization. I primarily use the computers at
work to run finished programs and their standardization is still another
story. But even just considering UN*X itself it is a damned
nuisance to have to remember that tar's command line arguments must not
be preceded by '-' since '-' is an argument in itself, while most other
commands I use regularly DO require a '-' to precede the arguments. 
Then sometimes it is possible to group the arguments all together as in
'dump -0oucbdsf ...' while other commands barf at such combinations.
All this is on the same flavour of UN*X, mind you.

Things get much worse when you are forced to switch between different
UN*X's. Just a simple example:
I tried to dump the contents of a partition on a DEC Ultrix machine to an
Exabyte streamer hooked to a SUN under SUN OS 4.1.1. Both machines are
on the same net and communicate easily using rsh, rlogin, telnet and the
like. Nevertheless it took me hours and hours of work to find the best
way to accomplish this task. Think about the different possibilities: 
I can dump into a pipe and use dd to write to the tape (with a host of
possible settings). I can dump into a file and send the file via ftp to
the sun, again use dd to write to the tape. I can finally use rdump and
send to the SUN directly. But in order to do that, I had to rename the
.cshrc and .login in the root directory of the SUN because some commands
in them made rdump barf. I haven't bothered to find out what goes wrong
since the error message is so very helpful. 

I could go on and on with examples but I think you get my point.
If a computer is to be a help, not a problem in itself it has to be EASY
to setup, maintain and take care of. Apps should install themselves and
REMOVE themselves as well, if necessary. (I don't want to have to clean
up all the symbolic links an app might create on installation). User
interface has to be consistent - similar things done in similar ways.
Standardized interfaces between programs should exist (and not by the
dozen) so that programs can communicate easily...
In short: the programmers must be stuck in very tight straight jackets.
That won't be fun for them, but it will be wonderful for the end user.
If nothing like that happens in the UN*X world, UN*X will remain an OS
for the seasoned programmer that has to be coddled by knowledgable
sysadmins (plus maybe an occasional sacrifice in front of the console
monitor now and then - ritual slaughter of a PC clone or something) 

HSK
-- 
Sie singen das alte Entsagungslied, das Eiapopeia vom Himmel,
womit man beruhigt, wenn es greint, das Volk, den grossen Luemmel.
Ein neues Lied, ein besseres Lied, oh Freunde, will ich Euch dichten,
Wir wollen hier auf Erden schon das Himmelreich errichten.    ... H. Heine
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