From: jlperkin@eos.ncsu.edu (JERRY LEE PERKINSON)
Subject: Re: SRII PhysAds
Originator: jlperkin@c00403-346dan.eos.ncsu.edu
Keywords: Physical Adept Abilities
Reply-To: jlperkin@eos.ncsu.edu (JERRY LEE PERKINSON)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 20:43:05 GMT


In article <21793@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu>, acgetche@taco.engr.ucdavis.edu (Adam) writes:
|>	Here is a description of a Physical Adept in our game:
|>
|>	Jomyo Meishu (named after monk in Heike Monogatari) uses Tech A,
|>Magic B, Attributes C, Skills D, Race E.
|>	He buys Force 6 Naginata Weapon Focus (+2 Reach).  He spends remaining
|>Force points/cash on Spell Locks that party Combat Shaman uses to Lock 
|>Increase Reflexes +3 dice, Increase Will/Int/Quick/Charisma/Reaction +4,
|>Combat Sense, Invisibility on Naginata.  The Combat Shaman has also bought
|>spell locks for use by himself (Increase Intelligence +4) and a Power focus,
|>as well as some fetish foci.

First off, what's the point of an invisible weapon?  Suprise?  I suppose, but
I wouldn't give more than the equivalent of a +2 initial strike, and +1 
thereafter.
Second, and the bigger point, from what you said, the Shaman was connected
to 7 locks on the PA and at least 2 foci on himself.  Let's suppose that, the
mage had an intelligence of 6 (+4) for the spell to total out to 10.  All fine
and good, he has one extra.  What happens when the malevolent grade one initiate
DISPELLS the lock without the matter being melee.  DISPELL as I understand means
NO COUNTERATTACK (assuming you are even astrally percieving).  That means, that
several of the adepts locks go down (The adept cannot lock or be bound to the
lock, so they are bound to the shaman.  Easy pickings to dispell a spell lock.

|>	Veteran Shadowrun GMs and spellcasters are already nodding their heads
|>and wincing.  Jomyo's powers are Astral Perception and +8 Armed Combat dice,
|>and his skill include Armed Combat (4) Polearms (6) Naginata (8).  Through
|>use of the power foci, fetish foci, Karma Pool rerolls, and the boosted stats
|>Jomyo's Combat Pool is 20+.  His initiative is 4D6+10.

How does a PA use a power foci, or fetish foci?  Also, Karma Pool rerolls do
not affect the Combat Pool directly.  Perhaps with Combat sense the pool goes
up some, but 20+ is difficult to get, especially with two success equal
to a +1.

|>	When Jomyo swings his Naginata, he gets to roll 8+8+6= 22 dice without
|>using his Combat Pool.  The damage code in normal space is 10S, in Astral 
|>Space around 8M.  Note that in Combat, to stage damage up or down, the NET
|>SUCCESSES are used.  Jomyo just needs 2 NET successes to kill Andre the Troll,
|>he's gonna get 13-15 without using Combat Pool, Karma Rerolls, or anything.
|>Each time Andre attacks, Jomyo's gonna counterstrike with his 13-15 successes.
|>	If Jomyo really decides to take off someone's head, he's gonna roll 40
|>dice and use rerolls.  Even if Andre's got all the Karma in the world, he's
|>not going to generate much more than 18 successes, whereas Jomyo can easily
|>rack up 30+.

Ok, 8 dice from skill, 8 dice from PA, and 6 for weapon focus.  Fine.  How is
the damage code 10S.  Unless I don't recall correctly, the polearms do not have
a STR+4 S code.  And since you burned magic on Astral Perception and successes
your strength cannot be above a 6 as you took a human.  Yes you need 2 net
successes to do a deadly wound to a troll, but that does include Andre's body.
Also, good luck striking with 40+ dice.  You can only add combat pool up to 
the rating of your combat SKILL, not skill plus extra dice.  I.E. you have skill
8, so you can use 8 combat pool dice, (PA extra dice, and focus dice don't
count towards the total.)  Try 30 Dice MAX, so at least the 30+ is not likely.

|>	So some mage bops along and decides to take out Jomyo's spell locks.
|>Well, as soon as the spell tries to ground into Jomyo's body he's gonna engage
|>it in Astral Combat and slaughter it.  Same with the mage.  Check out the
|>Interception rules in Melee for the sad truth.  Even if 10 spells try to
|>ground out into spell locks, Jomyo gets 22 dice to counterstrike each spell.
|>Plus whatever of his Astral Combat Pool is (un)necessary.

Do you mean take the spell locks, or the people?  Spell locks, summon a spirit
to smash it, or if an initiate, dispell it.  It's really easy to do.  Also,
I believe that to use the interception rules in meele, you must be using 
astral perception, and would then be taking +2 penalties to everything done
on the physical.  There is no "best of both worlds."  Again, as I recall,
your PA would not be able to do anything against dispelling.  

Scenario:  Grade 1 initiate shaman.  Summon spirit, 2 successes: concealment,
guard.  If a slow shaman, take out one spell lock a round, while your shaman
and PA are looking for him.  Fast shaman, (using increase React+3, etc.) will
take out 4 a round, and be finished with all of their locks in 6 seconds.  
Especially nasty if they are just sitting around, or walking down the street.
6 seconds goes by fast if not in meele turns.

|>	As Jomyo initiates, it'll get worse.  He'll be able to get enhanced
|>Centering, buy some initiative dice, and more Improved Ability dice.  As the
|>Shaman initiates, he'll be able to Quicken/Anchor more spells on Jomyo, getting
|>rid of the pesky Intelligence limit on magic items.  An Anchored Activation/
|>Deactivation linked Improved Invisibility spell with 9 successes will make
|>Jomyo the stealthiest thing around.  Etc. etc. blah blah blah ....
|>	Sure, Slade the Sniper can take him out, but the point is a carefully
|>designed PA can still rule melee combat against any upstart Troll samurai
|>with a Dikoted Wallacher.

I see the purpose of your post, but anything taken to an extreme is getting 
silly, and is very likely to have big glaring loopholes.
|>
|>
|>           -- Adam
|>+--------------+---------------------------------------------------------------+
|>|Adam Getchell |Surgery-Radiation Oncology    GETCHELL@radonc.ucdmc.ucdavis.edu|
|>| acgetchell   |ez000270@chip.ucdavis.edu        acgetche@taco.engr.ucdavis.edu|
|>+--------------+---------------------------------------------------------------+
|>	
|>

Killjoy, who has already seen this problem, and is about to smash a player
with 26+ (yes 26+) locks and quickenings (all at force 1).  The above concept
is expected very soon, for the "beacon of magic."