HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Why are their level limits?
From: gajensen@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu
Date: 26 Aug 92 18:16:36 -0500
Distribution: na
Organization: Miami University Academic Computer Service"

In article <1992Aug25.150404.675@ccsvax.sfasu.edu>, z_copeab@ccsvax.sfasu.edu writes:
 
> 	IF the races are balanced, the adventurers will generally all live
> about as long, regardless of race, unless they retire. IF the races are
> balanced, an elvish mage is no more likely to reach 20th level than a human
> mage is. Now, if they retire *after* reaching 20th level, the elf will of
> course still be around in a couple of centuries. But he still isn't of a level
> that a human can't get to with 10-15 years of hard work.
> 
> 	But, the races are NOT balanced.

Sure they are, demi-humans get certain bonuses that go alng with their
repective race, they also get certain penalties, (Level limits and restricted
class choices). Humans have no real penalties, unless you consider not haveing
some of the demi-human abilities a penalty, but have the bonus of being able to
advance as far as they want, in any class they want during their much shorter
life spans. But then, we have now done a full turn in the argument.

> 
> Brandon Cope
> 

Greg Jensen, aka:
	Silk, thief extraordinaire!!
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: GreyOwl@uiuc.edu (GreyOwl)
Subject: Re: Paladins
Organization: UIUC Actuarial Science Program
Reply-To: GreyOwl@uiuc.edu
Keywords: significant words from a document used as an index to content
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1992 03:02:36 GMT
X-Posted-From: sumter.cso.uiuc.edu
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

dv52151@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Axly) writes:

: Kinder, gentler gods tend to be represented by those ranger guys in the
: funky leather outfits with all the metal studs and stuff. *Grin* Now
: which sounds more appealing to you?

Leather?  Metal Studs?  Stuff?  :-)

Ooops...wrong newsgroup.... ;-)

--
Michael Adams (aka GreyOwl)
+1 (217) 344-0709, +1 (217) 344-4857
GreyOwl@uiuc.edu (NeXT mail accepted)
wi.5467@wizvax.methuen.ma.us (anon mail)
FREE1217@UIUCVMD.bitnet (bitnet mail
From: ccoprdj@prism.gatech.EDU (Jorge Diaz)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Paladins
Keywords: significant words from a document used as an index to content
Date: 24 Aug 92 04:02:06 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

In article <5098@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu (Sea Wasp) writes:

>	Dirty Harry and Captain America both have a set of rules that they
>follow. Harry believes in enforcing JUSTICE -- and adheres to his concept
>of justice quite fanatically. He is just as predictable as a falling 
>rock, and just as hard to stop.

True, but is his method of enforcing justice lawful?  Personally, I don't
even think it is, since he doesn't bother with such piddly things
as arresting people, instead he just kills them.  Considering that he
is a police officer, he's breaking the rules of the department he works
for.

I can see where it might be considered good, but it certainly isn't lawful.

>Cap believes in enforcing the laws of the
>land (disreguarding certain ones, heh heh, like vigilantism), and
>adheres to this just as fanatically.

Again, Captain America might be considered good, but he is not lawful
for the reason you mentioned.  I've never read CA, but I've read Batman,
and he is like what you described CA to be.  If CA is like Batman, then
he is *NOT* lawful.

Superman would be a better example of LG.  He operates within the law,
and he never killed anyone.


-- 
Jorge Diaz                       | Sign in a restaurant:
Georgia Institute of Technology  | 
Office of Information Technology |   "We reserve the right to serve refuse to
ccoprdj@prism.gatech.edu         |        anyone."
From: ccoprdj@prism.gatech.EDU (Jorge Diaz)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Question on Armor Class
Date: 26 Aug 92 16:05:50 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

In article <1992Aug26.144320.6092@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> hades@Dartmouth.Edu writes:

>    Actually, to get that negative 2 you would need Bracers of
>Defense(AC 2), because according to the rules Plate is too buly for you
>to receive your Dex bonus.

Yow!  Where'd you read this?  In our party, all the fighters have plate,
and they all get their dex bonus.

Besides, Dexterity is not just for 'moving out of the way'.  It also
includes blocking with your sheild (if you have one) and your weapon.
These things are affected by dexterity.

Which has always made me wonder why a shield-less, weaponless person
doesn't have severe AC penalties.  If you were in a fight against someone
with a weapon and you were bare-handed, you would be at a major
disadvatange because the only thing you have to block with are your
hands.


-- 
Jorge Diaz                       | Sign in a restaurant:
Georgia Institute of Technology  | 
Office of Information Technology |   "We reserve the right to serve refuse to
ccoprdj@prism.gatech.edu         |        anyone."
From: ccoprmd@prism.gatech.EDU (Matthew DeLuca)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Why are their level limits?
Date: 27 Aug 92 16:31:18 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: The Dorsai Grey Captains

In article <67013@hydra.gatech.EDU> ccoprdj@prism.gatech.EDU (Jorge Diaz) writes:
>In article <17iqm4INN25n@trigger.ksu.ksu.edu> royalyn@trigger.ksu.ksu.edu (Royalyn S Nelson) writes:

>>That and the fact that the armour also restricts movement
>>and thereby interferes with casting spells.

>I never said anything about casting spells in armor.  Why is everyone putting
>words in my mouth?

The assumption is that the wizard is going to want to cast spells.  I suppose
you can have a wizard clanking around in armor, but he's going to be pretty 
useless.

Actually, I'm considering not permitting wizards to multi-class in future 
campaigns I run, partially because of the armor issue...if you want to be a 
wizard, you're going to be a *real* wizard and run around in your bathrobe!

>So, how do you explain that a cleric can cast spells in armor?

Because cleric spells are different than wizard spells.  

>Why can't a fighter learn to pick a lock without having to go through a 
>class change?  As for taking the time to learn the craft:  [...]

Because if you are learning lock-picking, you are *not* learning fighting.
My view of adventurers in AD&D is that they are so exceptional as compared
to the common citizen because they spend *all* their time learning their 
craft.  If you start spending time learning skills that don't pertain to 
your choses profession, you start falling behind.

Another way of looking at this whole thread is that you are trying to apply
real-world perspectives to a fantasy role-playing game, and *every time* 
you are going to come to the conclusion that rules don't make sense.  Indeed, 
they *don't* make sense; that's why it's called _fantasy_.

>After a cleric uses a mace for 10 years, I figure he'd become specialized
>in it, too:  It would just happen.

No, because specialization comes from an intensive study of the art of using
a weapon.  If a cleric gets into intensive study of weapons, he's *not* 
devoting sufficient time to his priestly duties, and is therefore a bad cleric.

Simply using a weapon all the time does *not* make you a specialist.  To 
use a real-world analogy, a secretary may use a computer five days a week
48 weeks a year; will she become a computer specialist in ten years?  Nope.
She won't even become a specialist in the (let's assume) one software 
package (Microsoft Word) that she uses all that time.  She may become damn 
good, but as compared to a software engineer at Microsoft, is she a specialist?
Nope.  

>Game balance.  That's all it comes down to.

Considering that one of the most important aspects of a game is that it has 
to be playable, game balance is an infinitely good reason to make a rule.
-- 
Matthew DeLuca                      "I'd hire the Dorsai, if I knew their 
Georgia Institute of Technology      P.O. box."
Office of Information Technology                - Zebediah Carter, 
Internet: ccoprmd@prism.gatech.edu              _The Number of the Beast_
From: dudek@acsu.buffalo.edu (David T. Dudek)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Hex-codes for printer-install on DMFRIEND for IBM-PC?
Date: 1 Sep 92 18:52:42 GMT
Organization: UB

Has anyone who has used DMFRIEND for IBM-PC figured out what the printer
codes are for a Panasonic KX-P1123, an Epson FX-850, or an IBM LQ-24X are?
It's a great program, except I can't print out the character sheets.

By the way, is there a 2nd Edition update for D&DTOOLS yet?


-- 
--David Thomas Dudek  aka: the "DUDE"  |  "The opinions expressed are those of
  University at Buffalo                |   my alter id, and do not reflect     
  V098PWXS@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU        |   gamma rays in any way, shape or 
  dudek@acsu.buffalo.edu               |   form."
From: ccoprdj@prism.gatech.EDU (Jorge Diaz)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Poisons
Date: 4 Sep 92 13:44:44 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

In article <4SEP199208353003@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov> spzkny@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (JAMES ZAKANY) writes:

>>	Nope, I think that a specialized field of alchemical knowledge
>>called Poison Lore is certainly a full-sized proficiency -- maybe
>>even a two or three slotter!

>Agreed!  I'd make it a rogue-oriented NWP.  Two slots for rogues, three for 
>anyone else (poison brewing certainly isn't "general knowledge").

Oh, I don't know, whenever I think of "brewing poison" I get images of
crones, hags, witches, standing around a cauldron throwing newts' eyes and
nightshade and bats' feet into it.

Sounds more like mages to me than rogues (but that's just me).


-- 
Jorge Diaz                       | Sign in a restaurant:
Georgia Institute of Technology  | 
Office of Information Technology |   "We reserve the right to serve refuse to
ccoprdj@prism.gatech.edu         |        anyone."
From: butterwo@pooh.cs.unc.edu (Jeff Butterworth)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Munchikinism/Min-Maxing (Require Def'n)
Date: 27 Aug 92 19:10:16 GMT
Organization: The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill

In article <LAVONIUS.92Aug27180925@kruuna.Helsinki.FI> lavonius@kruuna.Helsinki.FI (Ville Lavonius) writes:
>>In article <u855271.714898448@franklin> u855271@franklin.cc.utas.edu.au (Peter Didlick) writes:
>>
>>   Well I have been reading this group for about a year now and I am still
>>   confused as to the exact definition of the terms 'Munchkin' and to a 
>>   lesser extent 'Min-Max'.
>>

>
>Min-maxers try to create a strongest possible character from a given amount
>of dice/points/whatever...

Ok, I understand now what min-maxers are.  Thanks!

>
>On the other hand, munchkins begin character creation by whining that they
>don't have enough bingies to create a feasible character. In play munchkins
>usually talk of non-character things like AC or use ability numbers. They
>won't always choose best tactics, if someone annoys a munchkin PLAYER, that
>character is dead meat. During breaks in the game munchkins don't talk about
>anything else than the game.
>

However, I don't understand this munchkin thing very well.  Are munchkins
people who are whiners and who don't get into the role playing very well?
What's so bad about talking about the game alot?  Doesn't that show a
high level of interest?

Jeff Butterworth

Home: 130 S. Estes Dr., Apartment D-8, Chapel Hill, NC 27514 (919) 942-9177
School: 342 Sitterson, UNC-Chapel Hill, NC 27599 (919) 962-1849
E-Mail:	butterwo@cs.unc.edu

Al Franken: Is there a feeling of fear on the floor?
	    Has anyone say handed you a fetus?
Calvin Trillin: No, the floor has been fetus free.
		Family value day isn't until Wednesday.

From the Indecision '92 coverage of the Republican National Convention

Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: cb317@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Stephanie J. Kessler)
Subject: Re: Why are their level limits?
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 92 19:08:33 GMT


Where do you find that Clerical spells do not have listed
components?  My PHB has components listed for them, doesn't yours?

I agree  that it is in the  training that the difference lies.
Since wizards have the extra training of making, preparing  and
caring for a spellbook,
etc.   when  clerics are trained in combat (such as a fighter),
including armors...
-- 
The United States is a nation of laws:  badly written and
randomly enforced.     Frank Zappa

cb317 @ cleveland.Freenet.Edu
From: Robert.Wood@f37.n19.z1.FidoNet.Org (Robert Wood)
Sender: UUCP@p0.f1060.n391.z1.FidoNet.Org
From: StarWatcher@uiuc.edu (StarWatcher)
Subject: Re: Dwarf Women with bears, Not!
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Reply-To: StarWatcher@uiuc.edu
Organization: Actuarial Science Program at UIUC
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 02:41:48 GMT
Keywords: significant words from a document used as an index to content

JLM@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU writes:

: "Do female dwarves, commonly known as Bearded Broads, wear barding and
:  serve bread, beer and barbecued boar to bored Bards at their boarding
:  brothels while breeding barbate bears bare breasted ?"

Brilliant!

Michael / StarWatche
From: dwilson@Ingres.COM (It's up to me.)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Paladins
Date: 25 Aug 92 22:43:12 GMT
Organization: ASK Computer Systems, Ingres Product Division
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1

In article <1992Aug25.155117.676@ccsvax.sfasu.edu>, z_copeab@ccsvax.sfasu.edu     writes...
>In article <BtJuJ2.C4L@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, dv52151@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Axly) writes:
>> z_copeab@ccsvax.sfasu.edu writes:
>> 
>>>	Look at it this way: is it really justice to punish someone if the
>>>victim doesn't want them punished? The paladin is well within his rights to
>>>preach to the thief about the wrongness of his actions, and to chastise him,
>>>but to punish him? No.
>> 
>> Yes, it is justice. The victim may not be qualified to judge the right or
>> wrong of the situation. A rape or spousal abuse victim might blame herself
>> for the crime and not want the other person punished. The paladin is trained
>> to judge these sort of things, and having the advice of his diety doesn't
>> hurt either.
>	
>	I'll conceed that if the victim has been placed under great mental
>stress stemming from the crime, then they cannot really make important 
>decisions. I won't conceed any further, however.

If I remember my Poli Sci class teachings right (as if a Math Sci major
would):

It is society, not the victim, that determines a crime, in many cases
(but maybe not all...the memory is fuzzy here).  This is why criminal
cases here in the US are always United States vs. John Q. Defendent, rather 
than Poor S. Victim vs. John Q. Defendent.  

I believe the reason was that all crimes are, in fact, crimes against
society, in that they disrupt the fabric of accepted societal behavior.
It is therefore the *duty* of society as a unit to protect the 
individuals that make up the society.  I.e., Society makes the laws, so 
society must enforce them.

Given this, and assuming that the religion in question is a major 
part of society (for we, after all, cannot ignore the possibility 
of societal prejudice against minority religions), then the paladin
certainly had the right to decide that the thief was an alledged 
criminal, and should be taken to the proper authorities (although, 
unless in that society the paladin *was* the proper authority,
the immediate dispensation of justice was uncalled for).

> (rest deleted)
> 
>Brandon Cope
> 

Dave Wilson                         Please note that this was written by
Ingres Tech Support                 Dave Wilson the person, not Dave
                                    Wilson the Ingres representative.
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: rnmg1200@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (A Lady and her Walrus)
Subject: Re: Tales from the Floating Walrus
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 03:44:49 GMT
Keywords: Greyhawk, Trashed

In article <BtvB79.Jo2@news.cso.uiuc.edu> tgt33358@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Deus Imperator) writes:
>	I needed no $12.95 supplements describing yet another copied country,
>as was prevalent in my friend's FR supplements.  Instead, I stared at my map
>of Greyhawk on the wall, and let the creativve juices FLOW.  I revamped
>old dungeon crawls, so that now they had grandiose purposes.  And I finished 
>my grand project.  Detailing the Land Beyond The Sea Of Dust.  A NASTY place.

We should compare notes.  I did this too. :)

>	Liking the gods of Greyhawk MUCH better than the FR, I embraced 
>Vecna Lives, thouroughly enjoying cacking the Circle of Eight.

How did your players handle this module?  I ran mine through it (indeed, a
great deal of the campaign's plotline was tied into it), and they 
alternately loved and hated it.  In the bit with Castle Cavitius, they
completely ignored the fact that it was dark, gloomy, and horrific; instead,
they wisecracked about _everything_ and generally made fun of their 
predicament.  At first, I thought it was because they were acting out of
character; I found out later it was because they were so terrified of what
Vecna _could_ have done to them that they felt Cavitius was a welcome relief.
:)

>I did not get 
>Greyhawk wars, but for some reason, From the Ashes, out in October, calls to 
>me.  

And to me.  I have to admit, the only reason I bought GW was so I could have
a map that _didn't_ have those bloody hexes all over it. *laugh*  And also
so I could have one that had the borders of all the countries delineated.

One of the interesting things about Greyhawk--to me, at least--has always
been the way in which DMs have dealt with it.  In as many cases as I can
remember, Greyhawk campaigns have ended up (or started out in) a huge war,
of the type described in Greyhawk Wars.  I even did this in my first 
campaign.  I just wonder if that had something to do with the decision to shake
up Greyhawk with a war; "Well, the kiddies seem to like the idea, so let's give
it a whirl!"  Feh. 

>I'll see what they did, and if I don't like it, write off $20 bucks, tell
>no one to buy it, and smile that _I_ could have done a better job.

You and me both. :)

The Walrus
From: nsecomb@metz.une.edu.au ( Nige.)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Selling Clerical Services
Keywords: Dosh for healing
Date: 27 Aug 92 06:23:25 GMT


   My apologies if this has been debated to death on the net, but it is a
question that I've tended to ignore over the years, but then I've rarely
played clerics.
   In a party of adventurers, a party where the individuals share
a working relationship rather than being friends, should the cleric be
entitled to payment for his (sorry, their) healing services? or should they 
just give the benefits of their divine faith to the heathens in the party
who's contributions take the form of muscle and swordsmanship, arcane 
abilities, or rogue attributes. If the Cleric does get paid, then should the 
warrior also get paid for each physical threat to the party they eliminate, or
each spell the mage casts etc, or should the cleric once paid for services
rendered just not be entitled to the rewards or booty from a successful
adventure. 
   For a LG or NG the cleric's diety may obligate their divine healing powers
be used to aid anyone in need, and expect payment as the church strives to
promote goodness etc. But what about any of the neutral clerics ( yes, those
clerics that don't affect undead do exist somewhere), is it possible that 
their diety does demand payment in certain or maybe all circumstances, and if
so what may be examples of the situations.
   I won't even pose the question for evil dieties for two reasons,
(1) I can't imagine many instances where an evil cleric would heal someone,
unless they expected a favour in return, and pretty big one at that. This
would appear logical given that most good dietys disdain harm spells.
(2) I personally hate evil dietys and the concepts behind them, and so 
really don't care that much about them, (but still I accept as part of AD@D 
and rpg's for reasons of game balance). BUT, for the benefit of those who 
don't mind having evil PC clerics, please share your thoughts on this matter 
because hopefully I won't be the only one interested in the correspondance on 
this issue.
   The main reason why these questions are posed is because I'd like some
ideas on how you can develop are cleric character's personality, especially
of non NG and LG allignments, without it turning into the "generic cleric"
character where the cleric just gives healing no questions asked or payment
demands made.

                                                Nigel.
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: laruedm@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (David Larue)
Subject: Re: Improving a skill with a weapon
Keywords: who reads key words?
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 14:50:13 GMT

In article <1992Aug23.043308.23332@u.washington.edu> scythe@byron.u.washington.edu (The Grim Reaper) writes:
>In my campaign, there is a fighter who has devoted himself to
>the study (and eventual mastery) of the quarterstaff.  He has
>specialized in the weapon, and it is usually the only
>weapon he uses.  So my question is, where to go from here?
>Under current second edition rules, there is nothing more for him
>to learn with the weapon.  There seems to be no way for him
>to improve at the staff.  Does anyone out there has an idea for
>allowing him to further improve?  Perhaps special attacks, or 
>something if he devotes a number of profiency slots?
>Any creative DMs out there?
>

I give people a nice attack every 2/3/4 slots they put in, depending on
what attack they want...after perfection is reached, then:

first 2 gets a +5 to damage every 10th roll
first 3 gets a 10% chance of stunning blow (opponent is stunned for 1d6
rounds, +1 per level above 7, save for constitution - 3 and halve the
time.)
first 4 gets 7% chance 'critical hit' stripping opponent of 75% of it's
current HPs.

Add 2 more gets either +6 every 10th hit or +5 every 9th hit (max 5th hit)
to a SINGLE opponent (i.e. hit a kobold 4 times then bash the Dwarf Fighter
and you don't get the bonus)

Add 3 more points and get 15% chance (up 5% every time)
Add 4 more points and get 8% chance of crit. hit (up 1% every time)

And add 1 or 2 more points to each of these, and raise the damage/raise the
probibality by 1 or 2 points/percent.

-= Justin =-
From: alvalent@husc9.harvard.edu (Alvin Valentine)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Sticky Situation
Date: 27 Aug 92 22:25:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc3.1992Aug27.182510.15165
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

I advise checking your local magic shop or a wholesale medical supply company
rather than your local pharmacy.  Still other methods of sticking 2 cards
include roughing fluid.  Another tacky substance is Wiz Tax.  D Robbins , NY
carries it.  IT is a flesh-colored spongy double stick tape that has a zillion
uses and comes on and off things really easily.  Your local magic shop will
likely know nothing about it, so contact D Robbins direct, or another large
magic distributor.
 

 
Later,
 
Lee Valentine
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd