From: petersm@jacobs.CS.ORST.EDU (Marguerite Petersen)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems
Subject: Re: blue Re: CopyRights
Date: 6 Nov 92 10:16:47 GMT
Article-I.D.: leela.1992Nov6.101647.2068
Organization: Computer Science Outreach Services - Oregon State University

In article <7710625@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM> daq@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Doug Quarnstrom) writes:
>I am so angry at Phillip Nikolayev that I was tempted
>to come in and engage in all sorts of name calling
>in defending myself.  But I really know nothing
>about Mr. N., so I do not want to cast
>general aspersions against him.  An e-mail exchange
>has revealed to me more specifics of his "charge"
>against me, and I wish to make a public defense.
>
>Apparently Mr. Nikolayev thinks I plagiarized
>a gesture made by Joe Green.  Note that
>he apparently is not accusing me of plagiarizing the IDEA
>but the style and the gesture.
>As I recall, Joe's discussion of copyrights
>embodied the idea of a gift economy.  Joe
>was concerned at the commodification of poetry,
>and he suggested that people take and use his
>poetry as his gesture to fight the commodification
>that is embodied in the idea of the copyright.
>As I recall that was Joe's intent in his gesture,
>which apparently was never posted as a poem.
>I do recall that discussion, and if I recall
>Joe's gesture incorrectly, then I would like
>to see evidence of this as I do not have the
>archives of this discussion.

I have some of this discussion but it is difficult for me to find it.  I
am not as organized as I could wish to be.  :-)

It is my impression that you are correct about Joe's comments.  Up until
the time Joe suggested a gift economy, I had been posting copyright
symbols on my poetry (as if anyone would want them :-) )  I was at first
affronted by his comments and then stopped to think.  What was my
purpose for posting my poems on this newsgroup?  Did I expect instant
fame, was I expecting any monetary recompense for my efforts, did I indeed
think that my poems were so wonderful that others would steal them and
thereby make a fortune that was rightfully mine?  If that were true, then
I was certainly sending them to the wrong place.  Better to submit them
to the New Yorker!  :-)  

The more I pondered on this, the more certain I was that I just wanted
to *share* my poetry with others and that once I had written them what
good were they if I kept them to myself.  Joe postulated that anyone
who wrote poetry in order to make a fortune was hallucinating.  I had
to eventually agree with Joe and from then on have never used a copyright
symbol, although I do post my personna of Kathleen O'Toole with my poems.
This was my attempt to join in the fun and games of the O'Tooles (and
besides, Elvira just didn't suit me.)  :-)

I think you have been unjustly accused, Doug.  To the best of my
recollection Joe never posted his ideas as a poem.  And as to the
stealing of ideas.  Well, who's to say who had the ideas first and if
we always had to mention where we got our ideas from we'd never get
anywhere.  If I write about a person I see on the street, should I be
careful to give them credit?  If someone says something and I then
write a poem based on their comments am I responsible for crediting
them in order to not be accused of plagiarism?  Sometimes I will
mention a particular individual or conversation that inspired a 
poem, but I do it for the sake of interest and nothing more.

Kathleen O'Toole,
Bringer of Light


-- 
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"Insufficient facts always invites danger, Captain."- Spock in Space Seed
	Marg Petersen	petersm@jacobs.cs.orst.edu
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