HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster)
Subject: Humor (Don G. etc)
Organization: pubs
Date: 25 Jan 93 12:43:32 CST


Someone was wondering about the nature of the humor in Don Giovanni, whether
it was originally meant to be funny, and so forth.  A couple of examples have
made me think about this, one of which occurred yesterday.

As a student I read Shaw's "Candida" and took it as a fairly earnest character
study.  I later saw it performed at Minnesota's Guthrie Theater and realized
that every line was meant to be, or could be played to be, witty (actually I
think Shaw intended it be witty).  One line that struck me especially funny that
night was "You mean--socialism?" (sorry I can't remember what this responded
to!).

Yesterday at the Minnesota Children's Theater (a sophisticated, big-budget
operation), I saw Moliere's "The Miser".  I've read lots of Moliere and he
always struck me as intrinsically funny.  The Children's Theater played it very
broadly so that even the youngest kids got in the spirit and laughed along with
the whole thing.  But, at a Q&A session following, someone pointed out that the
Guthrie once produced The Miser as a really dark work.  Well yes--the issues are
all real and serious: parent-child relationships, the interaction of love and
money, and so forth.

What do these examples indicate?  Can *anything* be played either way?  If I
could misread Shaw as serious and the Guthrie could make Moliere into something
grim, is our reaction completely determined by the tone of voice and body
language?  One more example is an old Saturday Night Live sketch, a talk show
called "Heavy Sarcasm".  Everything the people said was what you'd normally
hear, but it was delivered with an extra emphasis, rolling of eyes, etc.,
indicating the opposite meaning.  ("I'm *thriillled* to be here." "Well it's
*greeaat* to have you here." etc.)  Maybe this indicates that the tragic and
comic really are dealing with precisely the same material, and comedy is just a
way to create distance and try to master adversity.  In view of all this, the
ambiguity in Don G is to be expected.  (I'll be waiting for the tragic edition
of Laurel and Hardy's "The Music Box".)

Chris Brewster
cb@cray.com
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: rbrooks1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Robert Brooks)
Subject: Mahler 6 (was Re: Mahler 7)
Reply-To: rbrooks1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Robert Brooks)
Organization: Swarthmore College
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 03:02:46 GMT

robertson@pasadena-dc.bofa.com writes:
[...]

> (BTW, another underappreciated performance is the Karajan Mahler 6th, IMHO.  
> Coupled w/ Songs of a Wayfarer, I think.)

Well I don't know who doesn't appreciate this version but for me it's
absolutely top of the heap, with the Abbado/Chicago version running a close
second.  Karajan unfortunately (just to incite some rioting ;-) ) didn't
record much Mahler but this performance is superb, esp. the always
controversial finale.  The coupling is the Ruckert Lieder (the soloist
escapes me just now) as it is with the Abbado.
-- 
Rob Brooks
rbrooks1@cc.swarthmore.edu

Selig sind, die da Leid tragen, denn sie sollen getrostet werden.
From: wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Seeking comments on BBC Classical Music Magazine
Date: 26 Jan 93 12:09:14 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620

In article <1993Jan25.194446.11521@visual.com>, rwh@visual.com (Rob Holzel) writes:
> Rouben Rostamian writes:
> 
>>My understanding is
>>that the first issue has not yet appeared. 
> 
> No, it has at least been on newstands here in Boston for a few months
> now.  (I also saw it in stores in Ohio.)  
> 
FWIW the first issue appeared in Britain in about October last yearr.

> 
> The issue I bought included the Nielsen Second and Sibelius Fifth on
> the CD.  Both were very good performances, not quite "first choices"
> but certainly competitive.  The editorial content of the magazine 
> seems colorful, a bit slick, but perfectly agreeable.  I don't think
> I'd go so far as to subscribe, but that's only because it seems a lot
> of what they include on the CD duplicates what I already have in my
> collection.

Their content is too mainstream for me: they concentrate far to heavily on the
major orchestral classics. Still, I've bought several issues simply because I
wanted the music they provided on CD, but wasn't going to pay 14 quid for a
`real' CD.

> 
> There's yet another "free CD" magazine that comes out of Britain, in
> addition to BBC Classical and Classic CD -- but I've forgotten the
> name!  :-(  
> 
CD Classics, I think. The BBC magazine has the advantage that it provides
recordings of complete works rather than selected highlights of reviewed discs.
Of course it has the disadvantage that most of the performances are live, so
audience coughs are noticable. (The January issue, with Strauss' Alpine
Symphony is particularly bad in this respect.)
                                              
-- 

Stephen Wilcox             |   For Sale: Posts in British Government. Suit
wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk    |   outgoing American. Highest bids accepted.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Panufnik violin concerto.
From: hanly@brandonu.ca
Date: 22 Jan 93 16:40:41 CST
Organization: Brandon University, Brandon, Manitoba, Canada

An excellent work which one seldom hears is the concerto for
violin by Andrjez Panufnik, who died quite recently. I heard
it on the radio the other day played by James Ehnes but I
gather there is a recording of it available as well. Anyone
else any opinions on this work or the recording of it?
Cheers, Ken Hanly.
From: genetic+@pitt.edu (David M. Tate)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Morales review
Date: 28 Jan 93 20:14:19 GMT
Organization: Department of Industrial Engineering

kint@engr.washington.edu (Rick Kint) said:
>
>	Many thanks to Todd McComb for his review of the Morales recording

Ditto.

>	Morales wrote an incredible motet, "Emendemus in melius" (or something

That's the correct title.  It's an extraordinary piece.  Five voices; four
of them sing the title text ("Lord, make us better than we are, for we are
sinful", etc.)  while the fifth voice sings the divine reply "Memente homo
qui pulvis est"  ("Remember, man, that you are dust, and to dust shall
return", etc.).  It's (obviously) a Lenten motet, and exceptionally powerful
as well as being exquisitely crafted.  (I think I've used up my quota of 
adjectives beginning with 'ex-' for the month...)

Opinions vary as to which voice should carry the second text.  I've heard it
in the top line of an all-male recording, and as a tenor line in an SATTB
arrangement.  I prefer the latter; the textures are much more intricate.

>close) which was in the HAM and/or Masterpieces of Music before 1750.  I found
>a recording on LP a dozen years ago, by a collegiate group.  Does anyone know 
>of a more recent recording?  It isn't in Schwann, but that doesn't mean
>much, and I haven't seen one in my rummagings at Tower.

I've sung it, and I've heard it programmed, but I've never seen a recording.


-- 
       David Tate        |"Something there is that doesn't love a wall,
 dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu | That sends the screaming liner over it 
 Prof. of Story Problems | And spills the bleacher-dwellers from their seats."
 Member ORSA, TIMS, SABR |  	"Fenway Wall", Robert Frost
From: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Bach's Sonata & Partita Vln Solo: Recording recommendations
Date: 22 Jan 93 13:12:43 GMT
Reply-To: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Organization: COMANDOS Project, Glesga Yoonie

Did Ruggiero Ricci ever record a set of these?  I once heard him playing
the E Major Partita live: about the most spinecrawlingly astonishing violin
playing I've ever heard.  Could he do as well in the studio?

-- 
--  Jack Campin    room G092, Computing Science Department, Glasgow University,
17 Lilybank Gardens, Glasgow G12 8RZ, Scotland   TEL: 041 339 8855 x6854 (work)
INTERNET: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk or via nsfnet-relay.ac.uk    FAX: 041 330 4913
BANG!net: via mcsun and uknet     BITNET: via UKACRL    UUCP: jack@glasgow.uucp
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: basinski@biosci.arizona.edu (Mark Basinski)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Music Quiz - Murderous Composers?
Date: 25 Jan 93 19:10:22 GMT
Followup-To: rec.music.classical
Organization: Univ. of Arizona

In article <1k019nINNmbq@escargot.xx.rmit.OZ.AU>,
ryljjc@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au (Jacqui Conn) wrote:
> 
> I am trying to track down the following quotes.
> 
> Would anyone know:
> 
> 1)  Who said of whom: 'I compose to live; my brother lives to compose'?
> 
  I think this was W.F. Bach speaking of C.P.E. Bach (though I seem to 
recall that the quote is apocryphal?)


> 2)  Of which (then young) French composer did Berlioz say: 'He knows everything, but lacks inexperience'?

					Wagner (I think?)
> 
> 3)  Which director of the Paris Conservatoire is said to have travelled in on the Metro, got out a stop early, and taken a taxi, to keep up appearances?
> 
> 4)  Which prima donna, engaged to sing in London, married on the journey from Venice the harpsichordist sent to fetch her?
> 
> 5)  What do Jena and Odense have in common?
> 
> 6)  Name one composer who murdered his wife.
> 
     Don Carlo Gesualdo (caught her in bed with her lover, or something
like
that, and killed 'em both).

> I would be grateful for even one answer to these questions.
> 
> Thank you in advance.
> 
> Jacqui Conn
> ryljjc@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au
> no fancy signature, yet, novice user.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Basinski      Internet: basinski@biosci.arizona.edu
From: freed@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Der Wein den mann mit Augen trinkt...)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Brahms and Tosca (Was Re: Brahms Basher Repents)
Date: 28 Jan 1993 01:13:24 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX
NNTP-Posting-Host: foghorn.cc.utexas.edu

Once again: the shreik mentioned is NOT when she jumps, it's when
she discovers the mock execution was not so mock.

freed@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker)
Subject: Re: Mahler "Das lied von der Erde" questions
Organization: Camosun College, Victoria B.C, Canada
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1993 01:07:24 GMT

root@idigov.msk.su (Volkov Constantin Vladimirovitch) writes:
: 
:        Mahler's "Das Lied von der Erde"
: Please, answer in a short form following questions:
: 1. In which Mahler's summer it was written ?
: 2. For what stuff of musicians?
: 3. What had the best perfomances been recorded since 1950's?
:     Answer in rec.music.classical please.

FTP [.MISC]MAHLER.TXT from camins.camosun.bc.ca for a survey of many
Mahler recordings.

DLvdE in short? Horenstein 1972, recently reissued on Music and Arts.
Also highly recommendable: Ferrier/Patzak/Walter (Decca) 1951, Walter
recorded live in 1936 (Pearl) the first ever recording.
Baker/King/Haitink on Phillips. The Ludwig/Klemperer has many
enthusiasic reommendations too. Avoid the Jessye Norman/Colin Davis...

--
Real:  Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept., Camosun College, Victoria B.C.
Email: (dbarker@spang.camosun.bc.ca)
Phone: +1 604 370 4452
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: rwh@visual.com (Rob Holzel)
Subject: Re: Mahler 7
Organization: Visual
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 20:05:05 GMT

Rob Brooks mentions the Bernstein recording on DG.

I haven't heard that one, but I could hardly doubt it's marvelous.
Ditto the Horenstein.

The Abbado and Rattle recordings are the two digital performances
that rate highly in my collection.  (The Rattle manages to fit on
one disc, which is also nice.)  A friend of mine has also raved
about the legendary Klemperer recording, which is coupled with
a Klemperer symphony (!).  From what I've heard, the Klemperer 
Mahler Seventh is dark, dark, dark.  (And slow, slow, slow.)

Rob


Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: will@ogre.cica.indiana.edu (William Sadler)
Subject: Re: P.D.Q. Bach
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 14:33:55 GMT

In <1267@dscatl.UUCP> mgresham@dscatl.UUCP (Mark Gresham) writes:

>I interviewed Schickele few years ago on the subject of humor in
>music, and we got into what he perceives as his problem:
>Once you do humor, people expect everything you do to be funny.
>(I guess also that once a classical musician does cross-over pop,
>that's 'expected' too and then pressured to continue by
>management. :-( )  Schickele basically said that he literally has
>to tell an audience, "This isn't funny music," when he has a
>concert of his serious works.

Maybe he should invent a serious persona to match his invention of
PDQ Bach?  After all, he has potrayed himself as a musicologist (sort
of a strange idea in and of itself) all of these years so that people
associate the name Schickele with PDQ Bach and humorous music.

Maybe Duke Ellington Babbit?  Milton Babbitt's illegitimate son...

--
***************************************************************************
*   _______________\|/_      Will Sadler     will@cica.indiana.edu        * 
*   Laser 44888    /|\                       sadler@iubacs.bitnet         *     
***************************************************************************
From: dips@cad.gatech.edu (Deeptendu Majumder)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Seeking comments on BBC Classical Music Magazine
Date: 23 Jan 1993 14:29:10 -0500
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology, CAE/CAD Lab
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: cae.cad.gatech.edu

If this has been discussed then I apologize and would prefer
e-mail replies.

In my recent Audio magazine I saw this offer ffrom BBC Classical
Music Service in Tampa, Florida. They are offering subscription
to monthly issues of BBC music magazine and a companion CD, every
month, for $5.00 + S&H per month. Apparently the CDs contain full
recordings instead of samples and are done by BBC Symphony Orchestra
I think. It is one of those cancel anytime with no obligation kind
of deal.

Anybody has any comment about the magazine and the CDs, and about
the deal as such.

many thanks
d.
-- 
Deeptendu Majumder
30963 Georgia Tech Station
Atlanta, GA 30332.
Xref: sparky rec.music.classical:20832 rec.music.classical.guitar:826
Organization: University of Maine System
Date: Friday, 22 Jan 1993 22:01:14 EST
From: <IO21145@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical,rec.music.classical.guitar
Subject:  When is A-440?

I've just entered the world of period instruments with a 18 th
century guitar (reproduction of course). I was just interested
to find out when "our" standard of A-440 came into use. I'm sure
it was a gradual change... but I'd like to see if it would be
worth tuning down for Sor, Giuliani, Mertz etc. I purchased some
extra low tensionstrings to emulate gut the best I can. Are there
any thoughts ????? All responses appreciated!

Thanks!

SEW
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: pdorman@itsmail1.hamilton.edu (Peter Dorman)
Subject: Re: Sunday morning music selection
Organization: Hamilton College - Clinton, NY
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 04:16:53 GMT

>WHICH Lou Harrison (pieces)?  After hearing five or six hours worth of
>his music at his 75th birthday celebration in Portland last year, I'd
>guess he's written in about five or six distinct styles.

Well, I guess I was being a bit flip.  NOT the Lou Harrison of the
Elegiac Symphony, for instance, which is good stuff but not Sunday
morning.  I'm thinking of the asian-inflected music, like the material
on Pacifika Rondo, La Koro Sutro, his nice concerto for piano & violin,
etc.  This is for a morning with newspapers, a pot of tea, and something
out of the Tassahara Bread Book, followed by a hike in the woods or a
creative project unrelated to your everyday work...  (Uh oh, I think I'm
sprouting sandals just thinking about all this.)

Peter Dorman 
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster)
Subject: Re: Classical Music for modern instrument (was Re: The shortest distance between two chords is...)
In-reply-to: judd@wilkinson.cs.colorado.edu's message of Thu, 21 Jan 1993 18:35:29 GMT
Organization: pubs
	<1993Jan21.183529.8470@colorado.edu>
Date: 21 Jan 93 14:03:43 CST

Stephen Judd writes:

   ... As I listen to the awful
   music that over the years has constituted popular music, I have to wonder
   why exactly it is so abysmally trivial.  I see no real reason that a form
   such as, say, rock and roll, needs to limit itself to three chords.

I've been wondering the same thing for a long while--not only the limited chords
used, but the brain-dead harmonizing.  We have centuries of harmonic development
to draw from, but the only way pop musicians ever harmonize is in parallel
thirds--not even intermixing thirds and sixths, and certainly nothing as daring
as contrary motion or different note values in different voices.  And of course,
when they get in a jam (which is all the time), they just stick in a fourth (as
in harmonizing G-F-E in the melody with C-A-G above it).  Of the two aspects,
chords and voice-leading, chords are more likely to get interesting in pop
music, I find.

What's hard to figure is that some of these people are trained, such as,
reputedly, the Eurythmics.  But the music of even trained pop musicians shows no
evidence of their training.  This is not to say that untrained musicians are
bad, or that good music can't be done with limited technical resources.  They
often have good enough musical instincts that they can put together interesting
things from whatever they happen to have discovered--the Grandma Moses approach,
more or less.  But why not draw on some of the diversity of resources that are
already available?

[Footnote: NPR had a segment about a new album by Elvis Costello with--yes--
string quartet.  This is a definite exception to the above; it's surprisingly
good.]

Chris Brewster
cb@cray.com
From: pajerek@telstar.kodak.com (Don Pajerek)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Mahler 7
Date: 26 Jan 93 19:13:00 GMT
Reply-To: pajerek@telstar.kodak.com (Don Pajerek)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Digital Equipment Corp. - Telstar

In article <C1G0wA.K7y@cmcl2.nyu.edu> tony@cns.nyu.edu writes:
>I share the already-stated enthusiasm for the Solti and Abbado Chicago
>versions, giving the edge to Solti for sheer drive and power (and also
>for the recording, which has more atmosphere and clarity, even though it
>is analog).

I would think "because it's analog". Has anyone yet heard a digital
recording with any natural-sounding ambience?

>					Tony Movshon
>

Don Pajerek

Standard disclaimers apply.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad)
Subject: Re: Don Giovanni
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 22:55:37 GMT

>In article <1993Jan19.222258.1273@osf.org> coren@speed.osf.org (Robert Coren) writes:

>>What's (deliberately) funny about Donna Anna? You're not allowed to
>>include what <insert non-favorite soprano here> sounds like in "Non mi
>>dir".

Actually, there is something, if we go by 18th-century attitudes that I
hope have been left behind:

It's reported that the first audiences at Don Giovanni found Donna
Anna's narration of the stranger's (Don G, whom she thought at first was
Don O) hilarious, because depending on how one interprets the adverb
in "*afterwards* I realized it was not you," they figured that the
stranger "had his way with her" before she figured it out.  Yuck yuck,
eh?  :-(

Jon Alan Conrad
From: csstddm@titan.brunel.ac.uk.ac.uk (David Martland)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: From The New World
Date: 25 Jan 93 15:46:06 GMT
Reply-To: csstddm@titan.brunel.ac.uk.ac.uk
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.

> In article <1993Jan18.033925.17666@iti.gov.sg> jamesmit@iti.gov.sg (James Mitchell (SE)) writes:
 >epohl@hubcap.clemson.edu (A replicant) writes:
>>
 >
 >>I'm looking for a good recording (CD, please) of Dvorak's Ninth...
 >>any suggestions? 
> 
Oh - the New World again ... a particular favourite of mine is Fricsay's version
on DG - I travelled Europe to get an LP versin of that one. Now I've got it on CD
as well. It is still superb.

Other tried and tested versions are:

	Kertesz, LSO	(Decca - cheap) - recording a bit harsh - also try all
			the others in his series.
	Walter, CSO	(Sony - haven't heard the CD) - very good standard -
			also try his #8 which is superb.
	Kondrashin - Decca - very good sound - some reviewers think this the best
			- probably depends on your equipment - reflective in places.
	jarvi - Chandos  - pleasant, open sound - also a good series overall, 
			although his #8 is not so good as Walter's
	Colin Davis - Contertgebouwe (I think) also pleasant open sound
	Kubelik has several - try the cheapie on DG.
	Macal - on CFP (may be hard to get in the US) - I think it's good,
		but many reviewers here think it's the best - I'm not sure
		that I agree.

Also, I haven't heard Paita's version on Lodia, but his version of #7 is amazing -
it sounds like a real concert performance - not played safe, and good recording. 
I believe that his version of #9 has some similar qualities.

The Music Discount Centre in London can supply these - also I think you can now get
Symphonies 7-9 in a boxed set.

I think that Davis' version is also available in a boxed set, as is also Dohnanyi's Decca/London set, which I personally find rather bland, but nevertheless well recorded.

Libor Pesek's version with the RLPO should be good - his versions of some of the other
symphonies are very pleasing.

The real cheapies on Naxos by Stephen Guns .... (can't spell his name) are supposed 
to be good - I've got some of the other
Dvorak symphonies, and they're OK - I'd b inclined to go for any of the above in
preference however.  You should be able to pick up a decent recording at very modest cost - almost all are now at mid or bargain price. When you've explored #9, go on
to #8, #7 and then work backwards.
---
David Martland, Dept. of Computer Science, Brunel University, United Kingdom
email: David.Martland@brunel.ac.uk
Tel:   (+44) 0/895 - 274000 ext 2139      [Overseas callers should suppress 
Fax:   (+44) 0/895 - 256186                the leading zero of the area code]
 
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: mccomt@aix.rpi.edu (Todd Michel McComb)
Subject: Re: Classical Music for modern instrument
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 02:39:43 GMT

In South Indian (Carnatic) Classical music, one does find modern instruments
and electronic amplification used to perform the classical repertoire.  The
late veena (sort of a very large guitar) player S. Balachander introduced
a new playing style using electric pickups on the standard instrument.  He
was very highly regarded and stuck to playing classical compositions, but used
the added potential of the electronics for modification of embellishments.
The well known violinist L. Subramaniam also uses electric pickups, though
he plays mainly less classical or fusion music.  Finally, a prominent young
musician U. Srinivas plays an electric mandolin (which looks like a miniture
electric guitar) -- this is a totally modern instrument, again devoted to
the classical repertoire.

So, in Carnatic music one does find modern instruments used in a classical
setting -- and widely accepted by purists, so long as the music played remains
in the strict style.

T. M. McComb

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical