HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: blue@cam.nist.gov (Jim_Blue_x3809)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Music to calm down by
Date: 19 Nov 92 20:38:54 GMT
Organization: National Institute of Standards and Technology, Gaithersburg, MD

In article <3344@voodoo.UUCP>, das@voodoo.boeing.com (Deb Schwartz) writes:
|> At work these days, I seem to be in a constant state of stress, and have
|> been thinking that some soothing music might help greatly.  I love classical
|> music, but don't have a whole lot of exposure to it.  I would greatly
|> appreciate recommendations for music that has a calming effect.

I use Gregorian Chant, but not everyone agrees with me.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: Considering 4'33''
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 15:50:40 GMT

In article <1ea0j3INNfgf@MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU> ronthal-adam@yale.edu (Adam Ronthal) writes:
>I think John Cage was a poser.  Go ahead, flame me, but you'll never 
>convince me that he had any real talent.

No flame, just a few questions: 

Which pieces do you base this judgment on?  Which have you heard?

What was he posing *as*?  Cage wrote a lot of things about music, and
about his intentions.  Do you think he was misrepresenting himself?

Millions of people have been delighted and inspired by his music.
Surely he had a talent to do that, no?

Roger

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: jon@alex.com (Jonathan Heitler)
Subject: Re: Music to calm down by
Organization: Alex Technologies Ltd
Apparently-To: mail2news@gate.demon.co.uk
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 08:46:37 +0000

In article <3344@voodoo.UUCP>, das@voodoo.boeing.com (Deb Schwartz) writes:
|> At work these days, I seem to be in a constant state of stress, and have
|> been thinking that some soothing music might help greatly.  I love classical
|> music, but don't have a whole lot of exposure to it.  I would greatly
|> appreciate recommendations for music that has a calming effect.
|> 
|> Thank you,
|> 

Well what has the most calming effect on me, is the Chaconne from Bach's
d minor (I think?) partita for solo violin. In fact any of his solo violin
music is good for relaxing to, particularly if it is played by Josef Suk.

Just my humble opinion.

Jonathan.
From: elkies@ramanujan.harvard.edu (Noam Elkies)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: notation of accidentals [?]
Date: 19 Nov 92 21:16:35 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc3.1992Nov19.161636.17612
Organization: Harvard Math Department

In article <1992Nov19.021846.22259@Princeton.EDU>
roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig) writes:
:
:>I've always considered the notation of accidentals
:>in the presence of a clef signature was unnatural...
:
:>The natural notation should be (to me) _relative_
:>to the accidental at the clef, that is if the note
:>is # at the clef then # --> x, natural --> # and
:>b --> natural, if the note is b at the clef then
:># --> natural, natural --> flat and b --> bb, and
:>so on...
:
:There's a certain logic to that idea, [...]
:
:[and a summary of the early history of the # and b]
:
:History happens...

In more recent history one does actually find notation
something like Jacob suggested, of which traces remain
even in the music of J.S.Bach.  For instance, in G major
an "Fb" might mean F-natural, the flat serving to cancel
the signature's sharp; in a more distant sharp key,
say C# minor, one might see "F#" meaning Fx, with the
accidental # doubling the one in the key signature.

Is this perhaps a relic of figured-bass notation?
(Figured bass often uses "b" and "#" as shorthand
for minor or major triad, regardless of the actual
accidental involved.)

--Noam D. Elkies (elkies@zariski.harvard.edu)
  Dept. of Mathematics, Harvard University
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: mccomt@aix.rpi.edu (Todd Michel McComb)
Subject: Re: tonality and modern music
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 17:16:18 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.225248.5196@nuscc.nus.sg> Stephen Smoliar writes:
>[comments on approaching Schoenberg]
Regarding Schoenberg:  Certainly he was influenced by Brahms, and I do agree
that a heavy exposure to Brahms is important -- not only for listening to
Schoenberg, but for listening to much early 20th century music.  I also
think that Schoenberg is making a making a direct overture to Beethoven in
much of his early music, though Brahms did the same and as such that is one
more similarity between the two.  I disagree that the fourth quartet is
experimental -- at least in the way that I would use the term -- it certainly
involves new ideas, but in any important way it is a finished and expressive
work.  As to the label "neo-classic," the first word *is* "neo."

>I basically agree with this;  but if one is truly interested in "identifying
>with the artist," then one cannot operate from a position of ignorance.
>Reading note-by-note analyses may very well do more harm than good;  but
>if one wishes to understand the personality context within which a particular
>composition came to be, then one will probably have to achieve that
>understanding through reading.  (Rosemary Brown didn't TALK to those
>guys, did she?)  Another way of putting this is that one ought to approach
>a performance with an appropriate disposition, and reading may be one of the
>better ways to cultivate that disposition.

This is a good point, and certainly reflects the way most learning is done
in our society.  However, I think it is easy to let reading (especially as
regards unfamiliar music) overpower actually listening.  One can feel that
one understands what is being written in english better than one is under-
standing the music, and go on to let the written word define the music.  I
like to read about composers sometimes, but I will always let what I hear
have the final say.  In considering a very unfamiliar context such as very
old music, or music of other cultures, I am more likely to use the music I
hear to help me understand what is being written -- or more specifically
how our modern context is distorting the way another culture might feel about
itself.  This is partly a matter of personal disposition: music is simply
more meaningful to me than the written word, and for example my study of
world history and anthropology is greatly enhanced, and really reeavaluated,
by listening to what authentic music is available.  Ideally, one works these
connections both ways.

T. M. McComb

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: hcresnic@quads.uchicago.edu (hugh carney resnick)
Subject: Re: Schirmer's (was Re: Looking for a source for composer prints)
Reply-To: hcresnic@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 03:23:46 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.031147.13994@news.columbia.edu> gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener) writes:
>In article <1992Nov17.200800.1@eagle.wesleyan.edu> phoogenboom@eagle.wesleyan.edu writes:
>>>>Anyone know a good source for prints of composer portraits?  I'm looking 
for
>>>I bet Schirmer's has them, too.
>>
>>To what are you referring when you say "Schirmer's"?
>
>Schirmer's is a music vendor in New York City.  I'm not sure if they are
>(still) connected in any meaningful way to G. Schirmer & Co., but I suspect
>they still have ties.
>
_____
Actually, yes they do. Schirmer's is owned by G. Schirmer and Co. which is
owned by Hal Leonard Pub Co. The Carl Fischer Stores in NY, Boston, and 
Chicago are all owned by Carl Fischer. G. Schirmer in NY, however is a 
completely different outfit from E.C. Schirmer in Boston. Although there 
was a relationship at some point. Cousins?

hugh
-- 
___________________________________________________________________
	  Hugh C. Resnick (hcresnic@midway.uchicago.edu)
"Is it my 500th birthday? Well, that's none of your Busnois."
___________________________________________________________________
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: johnme@ecs.comm.mot.com (John Meyer)
Subject: Re: Bernard Shaw quotes (was: Brahms)
Organization: pcb_design
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 12:13:59 GMT

In article <1ecahkINNsav@uniwa.uwa.edu.au> diarmuid@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Diarmuid Pigott) writes:
>In article <Yf0o_iG00iV1E_5IhC@andrew.cmu.edu>, Aaron Paul Kozbelt <ak3s+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>>  
>> There must be many other memorable quotes about music, composers, etc.
>> I'd like to hear others.
>
>According to Fenby, Delius loathed Mozart, but loved Bach and Beethoven.
>
>Delius was a profound admirer of Elgar, as was Elgar of him.
>
>I adore both Delius and Elgar, but until I get a Rosemary Brown to play
>my pieces, I'll have no idea what they think of them.
>
>This leads to a corollary thread. What do current composers who
>subscribe to r.m.c like in current composition? I like Arnold, Simpson,
>Sculthorpe, Sallinen, Lloyd, Part, Schnittke, Lygeti, Xennakis,
>Williamson, Dreyfuss, Hovhaness, Rautavaara, Vine (to name but a few).
>
>Anyone else brave enough to nail their colours to the mast?
                      


How about Tobias Picker


  john

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: rodean@fc.hp.com (Bruce Rodean)
Subject: Re: the worst composer ever
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 01:47:11 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Fort Collins, CO
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.8 PL6]

Richard Smith (r4smith@student.business.uwo.ca) wrote:
> In response to Bruce Rodean who says 
> 
> I don't think you quite understand how EXTREMELY DIFFICULT composing is-
> Have you ever tried it?--I think not.....otherwise you'd know that it's 
> not the
> easiest thing to do ( not even close )!!!!

The sad part is, however, is that I did not write this.  Please be more
careful with your attributions.  I did disagree with knocking Delius
though.  ;-)

--
Bruce Rodean                          Hewlett-Packard Company
rodean@fc.hp.com

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: le01167@portal.lasc.lockheed.com (Ron Nadel)
Subject: Re: Tannhauser
Summary: How do Tannhauser recordings compare?
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Keywords: Wagner, Tannhauser, Melchior, Szell, Konwitchny
Organization: Lockheed Aeronautical Systems Co. - Rye Canyon
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 17:29:53 GMT

I have found the Solti/Vienna phil recording of the Paris version to
be quite satisfying. The cast includes Rene Kollo and Helga Dernesch,
and Christa Ludwig as Venus.

The producers made good use of the studioand stereo to achieve some wonderful
effects (like the act I pilgrims/sheppard scene).  Kollo is in his most ringing
voice, and Solti is spot on.  It is a quite exciting performance begining with
a great overture/bacchanale (SP?) and going on from there.  The VPO sounds 
terrific, and the horns in particular are untouchable.  

Ron
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: jeffw@or.credence.com (Jeff Winslow)
Subject: something about art dodeco and fatigue
Organization: Credence Systems Corp. Beaverton, OR
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 01:37:54 GMT

Noam:
>It seems that once such a person chooses to listen to some music that
>isn't tonal you'd say that this person "got tired" of tonal music.
>If that's all you mean then I don't have a problem with it.

That's more like it, but a little too far in the other direction, a little
too casual for what I had in mind. I extrapolated from my own experience,
which goes something like this: I play (can't really call it practicing,
it's not nearly methodical enough) on my piano anywhere from 5 to 10 hours
a week. I have a fair amount of music, and the local library supplies even
more, since it has a reasonable variety of music available (and even more
that's not available :-(, like all the Schoenberg in the reference section,
but I digress). Most of the music I play is tonal, in fact, most is
traditionally so. But every now and then, I sit down to play, and none of
it seems appealing. Bach seems embarrassingly unadventurous. Beethoven 
seems to pull the same rabbits perpetually out of the same hats. Chopin
seems like eating nothing but marzipan. Brahms, the same old autumnal
harmonies. Wagner - will he *never* settle down to a tonic? Even Mahler
and Debussy, just too familiar somehow. I think the first time this
happened to me, I got a piano-vocal score of Wozzeck out of the library
and struggled through it. But I had a blast. A few weeks later I was back
in love with all the rest of them as well as Berg, but at the time he had
just what I was looking for.  So when I talk about getting tired of tonal
music, maybe this helps explain the feeling. As it happens, this is a
rather old atonal work (60+ years!), but there's no reason the same
feelings couldn't be helped in the same way by anything from more recent
times.

Maybe one of these days I will get sick of all this vertical complexity.
Then I guess I will have to try out the later works of this Scelsi
character Todd likes.

						Jeff Winslow
From: mgresham@dscatl.UUCP (Mark Gresham)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: feminine instruments (was Re: Tubas (was Re: Euphoniums (was: Tubas)))
Date: 22 Nov 92 00:59:42 GMT
Reply-To: mgresham@dscatl.UUCP (Mark Gresham)
Organization: Digital Systems Co,  Atlanta, Ga

In article <1992Nov20.225402.14184@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu> velde2@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Francois Velde) writes:
>The most amusing is the organ, which is masculine in the singular form,
>but turns feminine when plural...

Hmm.  I know some people who are like that, too.


Cheers,

--Mark Gresham

dscatl!mgresham@gatech.edu

==========================


Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: rayc@tara.SanDiego.NCR.COM (Ray Cole)
Subject: Living Composers (was: Bernard Shaw quotes)
Reply-To: rayc@tara.SanDiego.NCR.COM (Ray Cole)
Organization: NCR Corporation, Rancho Bernardo
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 03:48:10 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.173122.15390@math.ucla.edu> pugh@pico.math.ucla.edu (David Pugh) writes:
>In article <1ecahkINNsav@uniwa.uwa.edu.au> diarmuid@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Diarmuid Pigott) writes:
>>>  
>>This leads to a corollary thread. What do current composers who
>>subscribe to r.m.c like in current composition? I like Arnold, Simpson,
>>Sculthorpe, Sallinen, Lloyd, Part, Schnittke, Lygeti, Xennakis,
>>Williamson, Dreyfuss, Hovhaness, Rautavaara, Vine (to name but a few).
                                               ^^^^
>>
>>Anyone else brave enough to nail their colours to the mast?

Are any recordings of Carl Vine's music available outside Australia and
New Zealand? I spent 4 months in Melbourne this year, and one of my 
favorite CD purchases was disk titled CARL VINE: Chamber Music Vol. I,
released on the Tall Poppies label (catalog #TP013).  The back cover says
"Distributed exclusively in Australia and New Zealand by PolyGram" so
I suppose it might be hard to find here in the US.  That's too bad because
Vine's "Piano Sonata (1990)" is probably the most exciting piano composition 
I've heard since Ligeti's "6 Etudes for Piano (1985)".  In fact, both
works share an interest in exploring multiple simultaneaous tempos.  While 
the rhythmic counterpoint in the Vine is less intense than in Ligeti's 
Etudes, it is still fascinating to hear, and the Piano Sonata is much more 
lyrical than the Etudes.  This makes sense, since the Piano Sonata was 
commissioned by the Sydney Dance Company to accompany a dance choreographed 
by Graeme Murphy.  Knowing this, I find it hard to listen to the slow opening 
of the first movement without imagining dancers, even though I've never
seen the dance that accompanies the piece.  It is very evocative.

The liner notes mention its likeness to Elliot Carter's "Piano Sonata (1946)",
but to my ears, it sounds like it owes more to Ginastera's first Piano
Sonata (can't remember the date on this one; my CD is at home and I'm not).
Anyway, if this recording were to get wider distribution, I wouldn't be
surprised to see Carl Vine show up in more people's "favorite composers"
lists.  Can anyone in Australia or New Zealand tell me if Volume II has
been released?

To answer the original question, among living classical composers, my favorites
include Ligeti, Vine, Nancarrow, Takemitsu, Sculthorpe, and Nyman's choral 
works.

						-Ray
						 Ray.Cole@SanDiego.NCR.COM
From: hellerS@moravian.edu (sjh)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: The Thread That Never Dies!
Date: 22 Nov 92 02:12:00 GMT
Distribution: na

In <17628@mindlink.bc.ca> Mike_Quigley@mindlink.bc.ca (Mike Quigley) writes:

>Eats-His-Pecker Salonen
>The Flagellated Mute
>Claude W.C.
>Leo('s a) Weiner
>Robert Simpleton
>Trevor Pillock
>Cheryl Studebaker
>Glenn Ghoul
>Luciano Beri-Beri-o
>Richard Hiccups
>Giorlano Frisk-a-Baldy
>Dreary Te Kanawa

>A friend of mine thought these were also funny:
>Yo-Yo Ma
>Einojuhani Rautavaara
A friend who performed under Michael Tinsle-Tonsils said he got the name
because he talked too much...
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: frank@rover.uchicago.edu (Frank - Hardware Hacker - Borger)
Subject: Re: Batons in period orchestras (was Re: More Haydn)
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Reply-To: frank@rover.uchicago.edu
Organization: Joint Center for Radiation Therapy
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 13:36:00 GMT

>In article <1992Nov17.203151.20954@athena.mit.edu> ridgway@athena.mit.edu (Lee Ridgway) writes:
>I'm not sure who made the baton a standard fixture for orchestral conductors
>... 
	Before the baton, "conductors" used something very much like the
	drum-major's baton, and used it to pound out tempo by hitting it
	on the floor.

	One conductor managed to actually kill himself, by jabbing the point
	of the baton into his foot, getting an infection from crud on the
	point, and (pre any kind of antiseptics,) dieing from the wound.

   Frank R. Borger - Physicist    __       Internet:  Frank@rover.uchicago.edu
Michael Reese - Univ. of Chicago |___      Phone : 312-791-8075 fax : 567-7455
  Center for Radiation Therapy   | |_) _   If you can see the light at the end
                                   | \|_)  of the tunnel, you are looking the
    "Birthplace of Softball"          |_)  wrong way. - Barry Commoner
From: ctatum@eng.clemson.edu (charles tatum)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Perfect Pitch Ability - Questions
Date: 20 Nov 92 00:25:28 GMT
Reply-To: ctatum@eng.clemson.edu
Organization: College of Engineering, Clemson Univ.


  I have heard a story about Mozart's innate perfect pitch. It goes something like this:
One day, Mozart's family was visiting a(n uncle's??) farm; a pig squealed; young (three year old)
Wolfgang heard it and immediately cried out "G#!!"
  That's perfect pitch, not just something he learned.  Support for Dean!!
   As for pitch memory being learned over time, I offer this.  When I am listening to a familiar tape or CD, a piece ends, and immediately I hear the correct pitch of the opening of the next piece. I asked my mother about this (a choral singer for a long while), and she says that it is important to have such a memory, especially if you are in a chorus and have an unaccompanied intro.  Personally, I think composers like Handel knew how to help the voices remember the next pitch by keeping the keys between p




ieces (sort of) related.  I know that it works, and that it is not just me. I have a horrible memory for everything else, so pitch memory is a valid hope for me. I say that it's viable.

---
Charles
----
+--------------+----------------------------------------+
|  The Wizard  |  email: ctatum@eng.clemson.edu         |
+-------------------------------------------------------+      
| Charles Tatum, Jr.   | My opinions are my own.
+----------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: schroede@bnlux1.bnl.gov (gary l. schroeder)
Subject: El Salon Mexico 
Organization: Brookhaven National Laboratory, Upton, NY 11973
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1992 01:13:55 GMT


This may be a silly reason to post, but... I recently piked up some
amazing recordings that simply blew my socks off.

Has anyone out there got Copland's "El Salon Mexcio" on Deutche
Grammaphone (431 672-2 GH), conducted by Bernstein featuring the NY
Philharmonic?  Yaaaa!  The drum thumps at the end of that little Latin
American ditty (the hat dance?) is enough to make you cry.  This must be
one of the most sonically impressive recordings that I've ever heard,
not to mention one of the best renderings of this particular piece.
Comments from anyone else?

Secondly, how about the Prokofiev piano concertos conducted by Neeme
Jarvi on Chandos?  Wow, another simply amazing set of
recordings/performances.  I've never been a big fan of piano works,
since I prefer the bombast that symphonies offer, but these gems have
made me a convert.  Now, I'm looking for new concerti that are as
equally dramatic.  It's amazing to me that humans are capable of simply
playing these piano pieces, let alone playing them expressively.

Now, back to your regularly scheduled discussion of why Brahms is
banal...


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gary L. Schroeder  		|  
schroede@bnlux1.bnl.gov         |        It's a pomaceous life. 
Brookhaven National Laboratory  | 
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: Question on Bach's 'Jesu, Joy of Man's Desiring'...
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 23:36:31 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.223656.22708@sarah.albany.edu> ss6349@tyr.albany.edu (Steven H. Schimmrich) writes:

>   I have a few simple questions about the piece 'Jesu, Joy of Man's
>Desiring' by J. S. Bach.

>   1. What is the title in German?

First time through: "Wohl mir, dass ich Jesum habe"; second time,
"Jesu bleibet meine Freude."

>   2. What year was it written?

1717, revised 1723.  The earlier version is lost.

>   3. Where can I read more about the piece?

Duerr's guide to the cantatas, liner notes to any of several good 
performances.

>   I tried the University library here and checked a dozen books on Bach and
>NONE of them had this piece listed in their index!  I had thought it was a 
>cantata but I couldn't find it in lists of the cantatas.  Is it a section
>from a larger work?  Thanks.

It's the *last* movement of each of the two parts of the Cantata, BWV 147,
"Herz und Mund und Tat und Leben."

Well hidden, wouldn't you say?

Roger

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: smitra@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Sami Mitra)
Subject: Re: Speaking of the Solti Ring...
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 01:49:25 GMT

>In article <2B0918F2.7952@news.service.uci.edu>, jdooley@maemaster.eng.uci.edu (John R. Dooley) writes...
>
>>I'm 99% sure that London has the Solti cycle (in an 18 CD set) at
>>mid-price.  In fact, lately I've seen it even cheaper because
>>they have some boxes tagged for the price of 15 discs with 3
>>thrown in for free.  (So, now's your chance to make that Wagner


I correct myself. The J&R catalog tells me that they
are selling the Solti set (which is 3+4+4+4=15 CDs)
for $167. That then makes it less than full-price.

				Sami Mitra