HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: diamond@JIT081.ENET.DEC.COM (23-Jul-1992 1710)
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
Subject: Question
Date: 23 Jul 92 08:17:15 GMT
Reply-To: NIHONGO@mitvma.mit.edu
Organization: The Internet

Hey, I've read some stuff about future tense, and present tense, and past
tense, but what happens when two or more tenses have the same meaning?

For example, "asu" means tomorrow, right?  And "ashita" also means tomorrow.
So, what about "ashiteru"?  Does that also mean tomorrow?

Please answer today, 'cause I can't figure out what my girlfriend said her
plans were for tonight and tomorrow.

-- Norman Diamond     diamond@jit081.enet.dec.com
[This message does not reflect Digital's policies nor this sender's opinion.
 Serious replies to this message, if any, should be sent to /dev/null  :-) ]
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: thutt@THAMA1.APGEA.ARMY.MIL
Subject: kanji-software
X-Unparsable-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 24: 01:00 EST
Reply-To: NIHONGO@mitvma.mit.edu
Organization: The Internet
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 17:08:59 GMT

David wrote:

>Just happened to see your email to Hartwig and I would like to obtain the file
>kanjips.tar.Z , unfortunately this site does not have ftp capability so I would
>very much appreciate it if you could possibly send me an address of someone who
>could email the file to me in sections.
>(or whatever is most convenient)

Are you running a Unix machine, or are you running an MS-DOS machine (as the
    target of the software).

    Does your machine support tarmail?

    If you support tarmail, I would be happy to break the file into several
    sections and mail them to you in pieces.  Otherwise, if you are
    targeting an MS-DOS machine for this software, I would be more than
    happy to put it on a floppy, that you provide, and mail it back to you.

    (tarmail may be easiest)

    Taylor
    thutt@thama1.apgea.army.mil
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: smittie@LARK.ACS.CSULB.EDU (Smittie)
Subject: Re: "Ugly Stuff"
Reply-To: NIHONGO@mitvma.mit.edu
Organization: The Internet
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 19:09:07 GMT

Sue writes:
>I beg to differ. I lived in Japan for 26 years, and I saw a great
>deal of ugly stuff.
To which Anil replied, in essence, the "ugly stuff" in Tokyo is
pretty mild when compared on an international scale.

I have to agree with Anil here. I grew up near Los Angeles. While
serving in the Navy I saw most of the countries in Asia. I was on
Shore Patrol and as a result got up-close-and-personal with a lot of
the "ugly stuff" in many of those countries. In my ten years of
watching Japan, Japan's "ugly stuff" doesn't compare to the "ugly
stuff" happening in many other countries.

That is not to say that Japan is utopia. Only that the comparative
level is far less.

smittie
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: fester@island.COM (Mike Fester)
Subject: Re: (none)
Organization: /usr/local/rn/organization
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 16:18:19 GMT

In article <56HNoB7w164w@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca> ccavers@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Cam Cavers) writes:
>fester@island.COM (Mike Fester) writes:
>
>>
>> Or invade a continent or bomb a military installation.
>>
>> It may be pointed out that the ordinary Japanese citizenry went about killing
>> innocent people of Korean descent living in Japan after the kanto earthquake
>> (a rumor started that "they" were poisoning the ground water wells).
>
>Hmmmm...it also may be pointed out that the earthquake happened half a century
>ago...long before most countries on this continent even let blacks and whites
>eat in the same establishment. I'm not saying that the Japanese people (this is
>a generalization, nothing personal implied) are the most racially open society.
>I am saying that racism, as practiced by the KKK, Neo-Nazi's, etc., is not the
>same as the discrimination practiced by the Japanese.

I believe the assertion was made that "the Japanese never had anything like
the KKK". While this may be strictly true, it overlooks the fact that they 
have had considerable, violent racist behavior in their very recent past.

>Does anyone think the Japanese attitude toward other cultures is changing,
>though? The young generation travels to other countries a lot, and I'm
>wondering if they have a different attitude than the current controlling
>generation. Certainly, some of the Japanese people I have encountered seem
>quite enthusiastic about foreign ideas and culture...

As do most Americans I encounter, most Germans, French, etc. 

In any event, this is an issue better discussed in soc.culture.japan than
here. 

I suggest we redirect any discussion to that forum.

Mike
-- 
Disclaimer - These opiini^H^H damn! ^H^H ^Q ^[ .... :w  :q  :wq  :wq! ^d  X ^?
exit X Q  ^C ^? :quitbye  CtrlAltDel   ~~q  :~q  logout  save/quit :!QUIT
^[zz ^[ZZZZZZ ^H  man vi ^@  ^L  ^[c  ^# ^E ^X ^I ^T ? help  helpquit ^D  ^d 
man help ^C ^c help exit ?Quit ?q CtrlShftDel "Hey, what does this button d..."
From: rto051@hippo.sps.mot.com (Chang Suk-Kyung)
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
Subject: Re: How to apologize correctly?
Date: 30 Jul 92 09:22:53 GMT
Organization: TDO

In article <>> rto051@hippo.sps.mot.com (David Luke) writes:

>>moushiwake gozaimasen.

It's probably worth mentioning here that this, and more commonly
"sumimasen (deshita)", are often used where the English speaker would
use "thank you".  In essence, the "thanker" is apologizing for all the
trouble the "thankee" went to.

It's interesting that the kun reading of the character SHA in "kansha"
("thanks", "gratitude") is "ayamaru", which means "to apologize".
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
THIS IS A BORROWED ACCOUNT!          David Luke
   SEND ALL E-MAIL REPLIES TO:        ruser@hippo.sps.mot.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: AECARM@UKCC.UKY.EDU (Doug Tvedt)
Subject: MAFF Internet Address?
Reply-To: NIHONGO@mitvma.mit.edu
Organization: The Internet
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 16:54:02 GMT

Does anybody know if Japan's Ministry of Agriculture, Forestry, and
Fisheries (MAFF) has an internet address, and if so what is it.  I'd
like to see if I could get some statistics on Japan's agriculture.
Thanks,

  -- Doug

*********************************************************************
Doug Tvedt                                    Phone: (606) 257-7265
Trade Specialist                              FAX:   (606) 258-1026
Center for Agricultural Export Development
University of Kentucky
300 Bradley Hall                      Internet: AECARM@UKCC.UKY.EDU
Lexington, KY 40506                   Bitnet:   AECARM@UKCC
*********************************************************************
From: ntetsuya@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Nishimura)
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
Subject: Re: OTAKU
Date: 31 Jul 92 05:48:00 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523

In article <24464@twics.co.jp> yoshiaki@twics.co.jp (Yoshiaki Shiokawa) writes:

[first part deleted]

>|        OTAKU I believe really means home, house, residence. And Otaku
>| used in slang as Computer-Otaku, Techno-Otaku, Manga-Otaku etc etc..
>| Probably refers to that fact that that's all these people do. IN other
>| words stay HOME and do their hobby all the time. 
>
>Yes, it is. but Otaku meaning "you", too. Usually, OTAKUes call each
>other "Otaku". But A few time, none Otaku Japanese use Otaku.
>
>--
>Yoshiaki Shiokawa (E-Mail: yoshiaki@twics.co.jp)

	OTAKU may mean;
		your house/home/residence
		  e.g.  otaku no o-niwa kirei desu ne
			your (house's) garden is beautiful

			otaku de wa nani wo benkyo^ shi te i masu ka
			what are you studying at home?

		your family (sometimes including relatives)
		  e.g.	otaku no o-jo^san yoku dekiruN desu tte ne
			they say your daughter is pretty smart

		your company/work place/section etc.
		  e.g.	otaku (no kaisha/ko^jo^/etc.) de wa nani wo
				tsuku tte i masu ka
			what do(es) you (your company/factory) make/produce?


	In the conversation such as between a customer and a clerk, the clerk 
	may address the customer as "otaku-sama" as well as "okyaku-sama."
	Some rich and snobbish wives may say;

		taku de wa yunyu^ mono no o-sake shika nomi maseN no
		we only have nothing but imported alcohol drinks in our family

	In this case, "taku" and "taku" in "otaku" use the same kanji, which 
	means house/home etc. as just has mentioned above.

	As you have seen, "otaku" usually address a group of people, while 
	OTAKU zoku seem, at least to me, to use the word to address to a single
	individual rather than more than one person;
		
		otaku-tachi nani ya tteN no
		what are you guys doin'?
	
	The other day, a girl I know wrote me from Japan, saying:

		amari asobi ni mo ika zu heya de "otaku" shite masu ne
		I seldom go out to play but stay in my room and do "otaku"



	Just for reference.
						Tetsuya Nishimura
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: anil@CS.TITECH.AC.JP
Subject: Re: Scholarships
Reply-To: NIHONGO@mitvma.mit.edu
Organization: The Internet
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 02:40:39 GMT

>Hi.  I have a friend who no longer has an account, so he asked me to write.
>He graduated from Duke University this Spring and will be attending Sophia
>University in Tokyo for Graduate school in the Fall.  There he will study
>Japanese and Economics.  He is wondering if you could send any information
>on scholarships.
>
>We thank you for your help.
>
>-Mike Cann
--
Have you tried the Mombusho scholorships..
The are the best in Japan (180,000/mth)+10,000 rent allowance
I highly recommend them!!

Eligbility:
usually for postgrads, prefer sciences, give a good idea of WHY you want to
study in Japan, and show that you have a good proposal for research (5
pages). No Japanese ability OK for sciences.
Fluent Japanese req'd for Arts.
6 mths free Japanese lessons, followed by 1.5 years of research..followed
by entrance to MSc/ PhD if your prof is happy.

Application from your local Japanese Embassy
---
Say Hi to Eleanor, Dianne and Frank (@CALICO) for me!!

Anil

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Anil Bhatia
249 Kizukigion Cho, Nakahara Ku, Kawasaki Shi, Japan T211
Fax : 044 411 9210
Tel: 044 411 7133
anil@cs.titech.ac.jp
------
Cyndi Lauper's English lesson:
John had had had Mary had had had had had had had had the teacher's
approval
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
From: AENIX@UMSVM.BITNET (jerry nix)
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
Subject: reply
Date: 27 Jul 92 03:41:56 GMT
Reply-To: NIHONGO@mitvma.mit.edu
Organization: The Internet

Sorry, I have no information for you.
From: tvp@gibdo.engr.washington.edu
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
Subject: Re: Citizenship
Date: 23 Jul 92 23:47:54 GMT
Organization: clearer than blir

In article <1992Jul23.144206.20636@u.washington.edu> yoichi@milton.u.washington.edu (Yoichi Ii) writes:
>yoichi@milton.u.washington.edu (Yoichi Ii) writes:
>>>I don't know about the law either, but I think the trouble stems 
>>>from the fact that Korean and Chinese names are written in kanji,
>>>which have different reading in Japanese.  French, English, and other
>>>names don't have this problem.
>
>tvp@gibdo.engr.washington.edu () writes:
>>Now hold on there! Languages written in the Roman alphabet can have
>>*exactly* the same problem. Just because we use the same letters
>>doesn't mean we pronounce them the same way. E.g. the French name
>>"Francois" certainly shouldn't be pronounced to rhyme with "ban toys".
>
>I was talking about going from Roman alphabet to Japanese.  Since
>the original name is not written in kanji, there is no conflict in
>the reading of the name.

Okay, I see what you were originally trying to say and you're
right about that.

>You bring up an interesting point, though.  A Polish immigrant to
>the US didn't have to change the spelling of his name (although many
>probably have modified it), because the pronunciation is irrelevant
>to the US govn't.  On the other hand, I guess the Japanese govn't must 
>care about the reading (pronunciation) and not just how it is written 
>in kanji.

BUT hold on there! Many, many immigrants, Polish not the least of
which, were forced to change there names to Anglicized versions
because their names were deemed unprounoucable upon arrival at Ellis
Island. This is no longer done, so maybe we should just say the US is
now more enlightened than Japan in regards to this universal problem.
But it is a universal problem; use of the same writing system doesn't
guarantee that diverse cultures know how to pronounce each others
names. That was my point.

-- Tad Perry   Internet:    tvp@gibdo.engr.washington.edu
               CompuServe:  70402,3020
               NIFTY-Serve: GBG01266
From: ntetsuya@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Nishimura)
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
Subject: Re: Asuna???
Date: 23 Jul 92 16:42:27 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523

In article <1992Jul23.150938.13495@athena.mit.edu> chiharu@athena.mit.edu (Chiharu Osawa) writes:
>In article <1992Jul21.140012.19823@u.washington.edu> Yoichi Ii writes:
>
>> BTW, has there ever been a Japanese (passenger) car sold in Japan with a
>> Japanese name?  I mean, there are the Bluebirds, Camrys, Civics, etc, but I
>> can't think of any with "real" Japanese name.
>
>How about "Subaru" and "Asuka" ?
	    ~~~~~~
	    In fact, "Subaru" is not a name of a particular model.  It is a
	    kind of brand name of the car manufacturing section of Fuji Heavy
	    Industory, just as Pontiac, Jeep, and Plymouth etc. are for GM and
	    Chrysler.
	    Subaru means the Pleiades, and Asuka, if my memory is correct, a
	    flying bird (tobu tori).

	    BTW, many Japanese cars in US have different names from their 
	    siblings in Japan.  For example, 
	    Subaru GL and DL series and recent Subaru Royal are the same series 	    of cars as Subaru Leone (reo^ne) in Japan.

	    Now, let's have a little quize.  What are the American names of 
	    following Japanese car names?

	    Toyota	1. Sprinter Caribou
			2. Mark II
			3. Hi-Lux Surf
			4. Estima
	    Nissan	5. Sunny
			6. Terrano
	    Mazda	7. Familia

	    Have fun!


							Tetsuya Nishimura
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: mathias@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Gerald B. Mathias)
Subject: Re: kanji of the day #23
Organization: University of Hawaii
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 18:06:51 GMT

Might be an idea to change strokes "3-1-2" to "1-2-3."
From: yoichi@milton.u.washington.edu (Yoichi Ii)
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
Subject: Re: Citizenship
Date: 23 Jul 92 14:42:06 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Jul23.144206.20636
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

yoichi@milton.u.washington.edu (Yoichi Ii) writes:
>>I don't know about the law either, but I think the trouble stems 
>>from the fact that Korean and Chinese names are written in kanji,
>>which have different reading in Japanese.  French, English, and other
>>names don't have this problem.

tvp@gibdo.engr.washington.edu () writes:
>Now hold on there! Languages written in the Roman alphabet can have
>*exactly* the same problem. Just because we use the same letters
>doesn't mean we pronounce them the same way. E.g. the French name
>"Francois" certainly shouldn't be pronounced to rhyme with "ban toys".

I was talking about going from Roman alphabet to Japanese.  Since
the original name is not written in kanji, there is no conflict in
the reading of the name.

You bring up an interesting point, though.  A Polish immigrant to
the US didn't have to change the spelling of his name (although many
probably have modified it), because the pronunciation is irrelevant
to the US govn't.  On the other hand, I guess the Japanese govn't must 
care about the reading (pronunciation) and not just how it is written 
in kanji.
From: patrickc@LCLARK.EDU (Patrick Cauldwell)
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
Subject: Re: English->Kanji/hiragana/katakana dictionary sought
Date: 28 Jul 92 01:49:14 GMT
Reply-To: NIHONGO@mitvma.mit.edu
Organization: The Internet

The best E->J dictionary I have seen is the Kenkyusha Furigana E->J Diction-
ary, which has all the Japanese definitions with their pronunciations in
furigana.  It makes things much easier.

I just got the Spahn-Hadamitsky about two weeks ago, and already I like it
better than Nelson.  It is much more logically arranged.

Good Luck

Patrick
patrickc@lclark.edu
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: simon@mmpe.mineral.ualberta.ca (Simon Tortike)
Subject: Re: racism in Japan
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 17:41:01 GMT

smittie@BEACH.CSULB.EDU (Smittie) writes:

>My Webster's II New Riverside Dictionary defines enthic as "of or relating to a
>racial, national, or cultural group."
>So based on that alone it is sage to say that Mr. Borden had it backwards.
>Race is defined as a division of the population distinguished by physical
>characteristics transmitted by genes.

Of course, this raises the question of who belongs to the "human race".
I know what race I belong to, to what race do you? :-) Seriously, though,
if you agree that there is a "human race", aren't all the classifications
by "race" really a "racial" concept, designed by those who want to feel
"apart"? If genetically-transmitted characteristics characterise
the division of the population as a separate race, then why don't
left-handers constitute a race, why doesn't each group of people
with a visible congenital desease constitute a race? This is not
pedanticisim, but an observation that the definition of race is itself
a conscious racial act, the decision to set apart a group, tribe, religion,
etc. for some distinct purpose. Most or all English-speaking people (native
tongue) would discriminate between the use of the word and phrase
"race" and "racial origin", but does a Spanish speaker distinguish between
the two when s/he uses the word "raice"? Does then the ability of the
language to clearly define the common English meaning of race make
people raised in the English tongue more *aware* of racial characteristics?
Race certainly appears to be an obsessive issue more in certain countries
than in others, a feature occurring long before the violent clashes
we have seen in the past decades.

Now that this thread is guaranteed survival until (CE/AD) 1997, I'll
let the others take their turn:-)
--
Simon Tortike                       | tel     : 403/492-3338
Asst. Prof. of Petroleum Engg.      | fax     : 403/492-3409
Dept of Min-Met-Pet Engg.,          |
University of Alberta,              | Internet: simon@mmpe.mineral.ualberta.ca
Edmonton, AB, CANADA T6G 2G6.       | 
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: burchard@horizon.math.utah.edu (Paul Burchard)
Subject: Re: saraba=sayounara=jaa
Organization: University of Utah Computer Center
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 07:04:03 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.040943.7276@tkymail.sps.mot.com> rto051@hippo.sps.mot.com  
(Chang Suk-Kyung) writes:
> In article <1992Jul20.235834.17127@athena.mit.edu> chiharu@athena.mit.edu  
(Chiharu Osawa) writes:
> >As a native Japanese, I'm curious about why we say such a thing at parting.
> 
> My guess is that it means something like "Well, since we must part, I'll
> go now", or, more literally, "since it is so (that we must part), (I'll go)
> at this point", with the "since it is so" corresponding to "saraba" and
> "at this point" to "kore nite".  The other forms seem to be shortened
> versions of this.

According to the latest issue of Mangajin (great mag!), it's actually derived  
from what the samurai would say at the changing of the guard.  In English:
	New guard: "Everything OK?"
	Old guard: "Yup. everything's fine."
	New guard: "Well, if that's so, I will take over."
	            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
It's admittedly a bit less sentimental than everyone's first guess...

--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Burchard	<burchard@math.utah.edu>
``I'm still learning how to count backwards from infinity...''
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: brown@VDRL.SRC.MEI.CO.JP
Subject: Racism, Ethnocentrism, and Videotape
Reply-To: NIHONGO@mitvma.mit.edu
Organization: The Internet
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 00:39:23 GMT

Dear Nihongo-Listers,

I have just one comment regarding M. Covington's interesting thought below.

   >>From: Maiko Covington <ecovingt@SDCC13.UCSD.EDU>
   >>
   >>Race vs. ethnicity? Well.... ethnicity has to do with the culture you are
   >>practicing, whereas race has to do with things like happening to have the
   >>genes for black skin or white, blue eyes or green, I think
   >>		     Maiko Covington
   >>
   >>Example: How about 3rd or 4th generation "Japanese Americans"..
   >>...who have never been to Japan, do not speak any of the language at all,
   >>and who don't really have any ties with the culture anymore? Are they
   >>Japanese? I'd say they are racially, yes, but maybe not ethnically
   >>anymore. Maybe this is bad example

I remember seeing a letter to the editor of the Japan Times about five
months ago asking why they put stories about Japanese-Americans on
the "National" page.  (The complaint was that the stories have nothing
to do with Japanese or Japan, but are just incidents involving people of
Japanese decent.  The letter brought up an example of an Italian American
getting into a car accident, after which the Italian newspapers treat it as
National news.)

From my point of view, Japanese consider Americans of Japanese decent
to be Japanese residing abroad.  Doesn't this relate to the concept of
ethnocentrism, where "Japanese" as an ethnicity is a stronger trait from
the Japanese persepctive than one's citizenship or home country.

   >> (Maiko pulls up the asbestos undies).
I'm bewildered at the thought...

Oh by the way, I used a Japanese textbook which will be used at UCSD
called "The UCSD Japanese Program" I think.  The furigana looks terrible,
and the book isn't typeset nicely yet (there is also no index), but we
used it in the EAGLE Program at Indiana's Rose-Hulman Institute of Indiana.
Do you know when it will be published?

	Gary


Gary Brown    MATSUSHITA ELECTRIC INDUSTRIAL CO., LTD.
              SEMICONDUCTOR RESEARCH CENTER, VLSI DEVICES RESEARCH LAB
              3-15 YAGUMO-NAKAMACHI, MORIGUCHI OSAKA, 570  JAPAN
Email: brown@vdrl.src.mei.co.jp,  Tel: (06)906-4907,  Fax: (06)906-3851

Go Bears!
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: macrakis@osf.org (Stavros Macrakis)
Subject: Buying the Kenkyu-Sha Furigana English-Japanese Dictionary
Organization: OSF Research Institute
Date: 28 Jul 92 11:55:28

Kenkyu-Sha's Furigana English-Japanese Dictionary is in stock and
costs $33.95 from Schoenhof's Foreign Books, 76a Mt. Auburn St.,
Cambridge, MA 02138, USA, phone + 1 / 617 / 547 8855.  Schoenhof's
does mail orders (with prepayment by check or credit card).  They
charge actual UPS shipping costs (no handling charge).

Schoenhof's also publishes a `reference catalogue' of books for 192
languages.  This costs $3, including shipping.

	-s

PS  My only relationship with Schoenhof's is as a customer.

Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: robert@ahi.pbrc.hawaii.edu
Subject: inexpensive accomodations near Sophia U.
Originator: robert@ahi
Organization: University of Hawaii
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 04:51:57 GMT

My roommate is going to Japan between 9/19 - 9/29 and needs
information about inexpensive accomodations near Sophia University.
Prefer single person accomodations (ie. no shared rooms).  Ryokan 
would be fine -- not really looking for fancy hotels.  
 
Please respond to either the list or robert@ahi.pbrc.hawaii.edu

Doomo arigatoo gozaimasu !


-- 
* Robert * Graf * * Bekesy * Laboratory * of * Neurobiology
* robert@ahi.pbrc.hawaii.edu * * University * of * Hawaii *
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: jtyrkko@vipunen.hut.fi (Juha-Petri Tyrkk|)
Subject: Calpis
Reply-To: jtyrkko@vipunen.hut.fi (Juha-Petri Tyrkk|)
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 09:00:49 GMT


  Thanks to everybody for explanations about Calpis.

  Special thanks to Felix Finch (crowfix) for sending me many messages.
Because of technical problems I have been unable to reply by E-mail.

                                                 Juha-Petri Tyrkko

                                                 jtyrkko@vipunen.hut.fi

Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan