HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kyle@Csli.Stanford.EDU (Kyle Wohlmut)
Subject: Tolkien Society
Followup-To: alt.fan.tolkien
Keywords: You must defeat Sheng Long to stand a chance.
Organization: Rocking Pig Enterprises
Distribution: public, world
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 22:59:58 GMT

Just a quick question, is there anyone reading this group who is a
member of the international Tolkien society (I believe is centred in
Sussex, England)?  If so, please post an address for them and how one
can get involved.  

Also I am curious, although this is a .fan group, is it legit to
discuss Tolkien's academic work?  His essay on Beowulf, though
recently falling out of favour with OE scholars, is still IMHO the
standard for the work.  (Or a better question, is there anybody else
on this group who has any interest at all in talking about Tolkien's
academic work?)  I had a professor in Ireland who had taken a class
from Tolkien at Oxford... :-)

/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/
                       /               
/'''   Kyle Wohlmut    -  'Heute back ich, morgen brau ich, und       
c-OO                   /   uebermorgen hol ich mir der Koenigin ihr      
   \   Rocking Pig     -   Kind.  Ach, wie gut dass niemand weiss,
  -     Enterprises    /   dass ich kyle@csli.stanford.EDU heiss.'    
                       -                                              
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From: rlm2910@ritvax.isc.rit.edu (RLM)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien
Subject: Re: Machines named by Tolkien's characters
Date: 23 Nov 92 22:57:36 GMT
Reply-To: rlm2910@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology

RE: Message 46. What did Gandalf say to open the Moria Gate,
    "Mellon" I believe the writing on the gate was "Speak friend, and enter."
    The Elvish word for friend being of course mellon.
    Of course, what other word in sindarin would it be!
Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien
From: clark@rx.xerox.com (Andrew Clark)
Subject: Re: Boromir
Reply-To: clark@rx.xerox.com
Organization: Rank Xerox, Welwyn Garden City, UK
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 12:29:24 GMT

Personally I think that Boromir is basically good. It was only the power of the ring that made him do what he did.

In trying to take the ring, Boromir was thinking of the good of (mainly his, but also other) peoples, but the Ring was simply trying to split the party (which worked well).

Boromir's name is clean.

Andy.


Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien
From: garrett@Ingres.COM (WE'RE ONLY HERE BECAUSE WE'RE NOT ALL HERE)
Subject: Re: Lord of the Rings - the movie?
Summary: Another movie  
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Keywords: 
Organization: ASK Computer Systems, Ingres Product Division
Date: 24 Nov 92 02:46:59 GMT

In article <98850@netnews.upenn.edu>, narayan@mipgsun.mipg.upenn.edu (T. K. Narayan  student 09-1 writes...
>	I heard sometime ago that an animated version of Lord of the 
>Rings had been released a few years ago. I have tried to lay my hands
>on the tape (i.e. hoping it had been released on video) but haven't
>been too successful at it. Does anyone have any details about the
>movie or was the whole idea about the movie a figment of my imagination?
> 
Major dissapointment. But then most movies taken from books are.
What made it doubly disspointing is that it was only the first half
of the Lord of the Rings. I was trying to get some friends interested 
in Tolkien, and this movie turned them off more.
	It seems amazing to me that in the days of Police Academy V,
and Jaws III, and God knows what other sequel, that Hollywood wouldn't invest
the money to make an extravaganza of the Hobbit or the Lord of the Rings.
They proved with Willow that they can make the necessary special effects.
And they are obviously running out of ideas (ie. good cop shoots bad guy
and gets the girl). It would cost a pretty penny, but people would go
absolutely NUTS over it (at least I would. But then, I'm not totally
sane anyway).

>-T.K.

Garrett@Ingres.com
Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien
From: dechc00@tohi.DMI.USherb.Ca (CHRISTIAN DECHAMPLAIN)
Subject: Re: Tom Bombadil
Organization: Universite de Sherbrooke -- departement de Mathematiques et
	d'Informatique
	<1992Nov23.073036.28220@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM>
	<1992Nov23.131058.16651@lgc.com> <By6HqH.1Ap.2@cs.cmu.edu>
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 02:36:43 GMT


Are not Tom Bombadil and Beorn the same guy?


--
Christian Dechamplain|
(819) 563-8951       |
dechc00@dmi.usherb.ca|
----------------------
Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien
From: stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini)
Subject: Re: Lord of the Rings - the movie?
Organization: Unocal Corporation
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 00:39:15 GMT

In article <1992Nov23.235130.24589@news.mentorg.com> ewill@hppcb27.mentorg.com (Eric Williams @ PCB x5577) writes:
>
>I do seem to remember an animation on TV some years back -- It ended
>in a very silly manner (Frodo threw the ring into a volcano; Gandalf (?)
>throwing his sword into the air).

I remember THREE Lord of the Rings animations-
	A made-for-TV version of The Hobbit.
	Bashki's cinema animation, which went about 40% through.
	A made-for-TV ending of the LOTR using the same artists as the Hobbit.
#1 and #2 are rarely repeated. I only saw #3 once.
Newsgroups: alt.fan.naked-guy
From: bualat@ptolemy.arc.nasa.gov (Maria Bualat)
Subject: Re: yumyum
Organization: NASA-Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Distribution: ba
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 00:53:34 GMT

In article <1enrmrINNo6s@agate.berkeley.edu> kevinm@ocf.berkeley.edu (Kevin Miller) writes:
>In article <1992Nov22.004223.4957@leland.Stanford.EDU> geddy@leland.Stanford.EDU (Scott Schaefer) writes:
>>Any NG sightings at Big Game?
>
>I didn't see him or anyone naked there.  Then again, the stadium holds almost
>80,000 people!
>
>The only thing good about that game was the Stanfurd tree getting decked.

Yeah.  Real good.  Cal students seem to have a real penchant for blind-siding
people with no peripheral vision.  There was a similar incident at a Big
Game several years ago.  Someone tried to grab the glasses off the tree,
cutting her face in the process.

Jerk.

Maria Bualat
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
NASA Ames Research Center    | "If a woman has to choose between catching
Moffett Field, CA 94035      |  a fly ball and saving an infant's life, she
			     |  will choose to save the infant's life without
bualat@ptolemy.arc.nasa.gov  |  even considering if there are men on base."
(415)604-4250		     |				--Dave Barry
Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien
From: kelsey@jupiter.SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Mike Kelsey)
Subject: Re: Silmarillion?
Keywords: Silmarillion?
Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 20:53:59 GMT

In article <1992Nov23.173823.25066@dragon.acadiau.ca>, 890554h@dragon.acadiau.ca (Andrew Hoogerwerf) writes:
|> I have read the Lord of The Rings as well as the Hobbit, and Farmer Giles
|> of Ham. I have never read the Silmarillion because I heard it was quite
|> profound. Is it worth a guy ( who it took two times to understand the Lord 
|> of The Rings) to read the Silmarillion. Anyway what the hell is it about?
|> 
Yes, it is well worth reading.  It took me three tries to get all the details
together and understand the relationships.  The _Sillmarillion_ (the book) is a
collection of four great books of lore, probably taken from the Red Book of the
Westmarch, and comprising many of the "Translations from the Elvish" that Bilbo
and Frodo compiled.  It includes the Elves' creation myth, their own origins,
departure from and return to Middle-Earth, and all of their history during the
First Age (the Lord of the Rings takes place at the end of the Third Age).  The
book also includes some information about the Numenoreans and their downfall.

If you get through the _Silmarillion_, there are nine volumes of "The History
of Middle Earth," in which Christopher Tolkien has collected and annotated his
fathers writings, drafts, different versions, and so on, regarding the elves
and Middle Earth in general.
						-- Mike Kelsey
-- 
[  My opinions are not endorsed by SLAC, Caltech, or the US government  ]
"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.  Attack ships on fire off
the shoulder  of Orion.   I've watched  C-beams glitter in  the darkness
near the Tannhauser Gate.  All these memories will be lost in time, like
tears in the rain."  -- Roy Batty
From: rlm2910@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien
Subject: Re: WHATEVER
Date: 24 Nov 92 00:12:37 GMT
Reply-To: rlm2910@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology


Whoops, correction time. . .

>Remember, the ring is a somewhat sentient object, it slipped from Isildur's
>hand, and Gollum's. Tolkien implies it did this purposefully in an attempt to
>return to it's master.
>
>	One last thing, more disturbing to me is the fact that Saruman was
>corrupted in his quest for the ring. Was it *the ring* which did this or greed.
>How inconsistent is it for a Maia of Manwe to be swayed to an evil (and, well,
>impotent) end.
>

This is the correct ending, sorry.

	-Rich
Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien
From: xexeo@dxcern.cern.ch (Geraldo Xexeo)
Subject: Re: Machines named by Tolkien's characters
Organization: CERN European Lab for Particle Physics
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 19:42:13 GMT

Here is the chart of quantity of hosts with a certain name:


384 venus       204 mac4       172 mac9        155 pollux     138 chaos
356 pluto       201 hobbes     172 mac11       155 frodo      136 bart
323 mars        201 hermes     170 mac8        153 helios     135 pc5
288 jupiter     198 thor       169 phoenix     152 mac17      135 larry
286 saturn      198 sirius     169 mac12       151 vega       135 cs
285 pc1         196 gw         169 hal         151 mac18      133 odin
282 zeus        195 calvin     168 snoopy      150 falcon     131 tiger
262 iris        194 mac5       168 mac13       150 bach       131 sparky
260 mercury     191 mac10      167 mac15       146 castor     131 ariel
259 mac1        190 fred       167 mac14       145 sol        130 sneezy
258 orion       189 titan      167 grumpy      145 dopey      128 mac
254 mac2        189 pc3        163 gandalf     144 mac20      127 sun1
240 newton      186 opus       162 pc4         144 mac19      127 rocky
234 neptune     186 mac6       160 uranus      142 spock      126 pc6
233 pc2         185 charon     159 mac16       142 euler      125 hydra
224 gauss       185 apollo     158 sleepy      141 mickey     125 homer
222 eagle       179 mac7       158 io          141 atlas      124 isis
213 mac3        179 athena     157 earth       140 maxwell    123 moe
209 merlin      177 alpha      156 europa      140 happy      123 delta
207 cisco       172 mozart     155 rigel       140 doc        122 pc10

Gandalf is number 52. But, before saying "it is not enough, please note:

venus (and probably pluto, mars, jupiter, saturn, mercury and neptune) are
standard names for Sun workstations. If you install you network without
any chagen you get venus... (cut 7)

mac<n> and pc<n> are pretty stupid names (cut 17).

cisco is from cisco machines (boxes), cut 1

Now, we are left with some greek gods, some scientists (newton, gauss).
gw (???), etc...

The only modern fiction names in front of Gandalf are:

calvin, hobbs, hal, snoopy (grumpy?).

Maybe also fred (for Fred Flintstone?).

At position 63 comes frodo.

Even spock and mickey are behind.

If bart is for Bart Simpson, he is doing quite well.

So, here you had the 100 bests, quoted from 

RFC1296

   Cheers,

            Jerry

-- 
Geraldo Xexeo  | xexeo@dxcern.cern.ch        | In Virtual Reality: MindWeb 
CERN-PPE Div   | xexeo@rio.cos.ufrj.br (*)   | (*) New Brazilian e-address
1211 Geneva 23 | bt268@cleveland.freenet.edu | after December 22.
Switzerland    | gxexeo@cernvm.bitnet        | 
Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien
From: kyle@Csli.Stanford.EDU (Kyle Wohlmut)
Subject: Re: Lord of the Rings - the movie?
Followup-To: alt.fan.tolkien
Keywords: Once you pull the pin, Mr. Hand Grenade is no longer your friend.
Organization: Rocking Pig Enterprises
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 19:42:45 GMT

In article <1992Nov23.175705.763@email.tuwien.ac.at> anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton "Antie" Ertl E185/1 +43158801/4459) writes:

>The movie employed some very innovative techniques. Basically, a scene
>was first taken with real persons. The pictures made from this were
>then used for painting the animated version. This made the movements
>of the characters very natural.
>

That's a technique that's not done a lot, but it isn't hard to find
examples of, especially lately (Disney is big on it nowadays).  Ralph
Bakshi, the director of 'Lord of the Rings,' has always done a lot of
that.  The interesting thing about his use of the technique in that
movie is that a lot of live footage they used to animate over was not
shot specifically for the movie... for the Battle of Helms Deep (which
pretty much closes out that film) they used a lot of early film
footage taken during the Spanish-American War... that explains why
that battle looked so real!

/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/
                       /               
/'''   Kyle Wohlmut    -  'Heute back ich, morgen brau ich, und       
c-OO                   /   uebermorgen hol ich mir der Koenigin ihr      
   \   Rocking Pig     -   Kind.  Ach, wie gut dass niemand weiss,
  -     Enterprises    /   dass ich kyle@csli.stanford.EDU heiss.'    
                       -                                              
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Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien
From: ctatum@eng.clemson.edu (charles tatum)
Subject: Re: Ok . . .
Reply-To: ctatum@eng.clemson.edu
Organization: College of Engineering, Clemson Univ.
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 02:50:05 GMT

  I must say that we need to get a discussion going on the nature of Tom. I've read
many argumentsconcerning his origins, and I'd love to hear what everyone else
has to say or that you have heard.
---
Charles
----
+--------------+----------------------------------------+
|  The Wizard  |  email: ctatum@eng.clemson.edu         |
+-------------------------------------------------------+      
| Charles Tatum, Jr.   | My opinions are my own.
+----------------------+


Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien
From: kelsey@jupiter.SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Mike Kelsey)
Subject: On Olorin (was Re: rebirth, Farmer Giles)
Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 20:37:07 GMT

In article <By5nto.3In@rice.edu>, markg@mistral.rice.edu (Mark Gordon ) writes:
|> That is Farmer Giles of Ham.
|> 
|> I am not sure that "rebirth" is the best way to describe the change from Gandalf
|> the Grey to Gandalf the White.  As a Maia, Gandalf does not exactly die but 
|> returns to Valinor where Manwe instills him with new powers, strengths and, of
|> course duties.  Thus, I prefer "reinvigoration" or "transformation". 
|> Metamorphisis is even less appropriate because he was a maia before and after
|> the change.  Olorin's (Gandalf's) return to Valinor is described either in
|> "Of Wizards", UNFINISHED TALES or in LETTERS.  I'll check if interested.

It's not in _Unfinished_Tales_, I just reread that a month or so ago and there
was no explication of Gandalf's fate after "death".  I've not yet found
_Letters_of_J.R.R._Tolkien_, so it might well be there.
						-- Mike Kelsey
|> 
|> Anyway this is a great newsgroup.  Definitely a need for Tolkien discussions.

-- 
[  My opinions are not endorsed by SLAC, Caltech, or the US government  ]
"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.  Attack ships on fire off
the shoulder  of Orion.   I've watched  C-beams glitter in  the darkness
near the Tannhauser Gate.  All these memories will be lost in time, like
tears in the rain."  -- Roy Batty

Hmmm.  Maybe I should go back to my old .sig:

"He who breaks a thing to see what it is has left the path of wisdom."
Pretty good for a high energy physicist, eh?
Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien
From: dimmen@hsr.no (Kjetil Dimmen)
Subject: Re: Lord of the Rings - the movie?
Organization: Rogaland University Centre
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 21:52:54 GMT

In article <98850@netnews.upenn.edu>, narayan@mipgsun.mipg.upenn.edu (T. K. Narayan  student 09-11-91 ) writes:
> 
> 	I heard sometime ago that an animated version of Lord of the 
> Rings had been released a few years ago. I have tried to lay my hands
> on the tape (i.e. hoping it had been released on video) but haven't
> been too successful at it. Does anyone have any details about the
> movie or was the whole idea about the movie a figment of my imagination?
> 
> 	It would be interesting to see how Gollum looks in the movie -
> whether he lives up to the mean image I have of him in my mind!!
> 
> -T.K.

The movie exists.
It covers the action roughly up to the end of the battle at Helm's Deep.
-- 
D.
From: Michael.P.Colburn@dartmouth.edu (Michael P. Colburn)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien
Subject: Re: Re:Tom Bombadil
Date: 24 Nov 92 01:00:12 GMT
 <1992Nov23.200930.747@dxcern.cern.ch>  <98942@netnews.upenn.edu>
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
X-Posted-From: InterNews1.0a5@newshost.dartmouth.edu

In article <98942@netnews.upenn.edu>
schoi@ccat.sas.upenn.edu (Samuel Choi) writes:

> I've heard someone say that that he's one of the maiar . . . don't know where
> that info's from . . .

I'm just about finished rereading the Silmarillion and I'm almost
certain there was a early reference to Tom Bombadil possibly being one
of the lesser spirits of the Ainur, more specifically, a Maiar, as were
Gandalf, Radigast, Saruman and Sauron.

Mike Colburn                         =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Dartmouth-Hitchcock                  "Pulu-see-ba-goomba" -- Gilligan 
Medical Center                       =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Lebanon, New Hampshire  03756        :-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien
From: smith@sctc.com (Rick Smith)
Subject: Re: Lord of the Rings - the movie?
Organization: SCTC
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 21:40:40 GMT

jonb@Ingres.COM (Jon Berger) writes:

>Make every effort, go miles out of your way if necessary, to avoid seeing
>this loathsome atrocity.

Yep. One of the two times my wife and I walked out on a movie (the
other was a Dracula remake). We struggled through a bar scene (the
Prancing Pony, I think) where the animation of the character's
intended motions seemed to be fighting with the live-action that the
animation was traced over. An interesting technique in theory that
just didn't fly in practice.

We didn't last long enough to see if Gollum was cute or not. Certainly
the hardest character to portray.  I remember seeing toad-like
portrayals in that old Tolkien Society journal, but I've always
thought of him as being shrivelled rather than transmutated.

Speaking of loathsome atrocities, I particularly hated the music that
Donald Swann nailed together to go along with several LotR lyrics.
Namarie' (sp?) worked tolerably well; Tolkien allegedly made him
rewrite it so it's essentially a Gregorian chant. The tunes to the
others are too affected to be real walking songs like they appear in
the books.

Rick.
smith@sctc.com       arden hills, minnesota
Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien
From: rakowski@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (Calvin)
Subject: Re: Lord of the Rings - the movie?
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 22:26:32 GMT

In article <98850@netnews.upenn.edu> narayan@mipgsun.mipg.upenn.edu (T. K. Narayan  student 09-11-91 ) writes:
>
>	I heard sometime ago that an animated version of Lord of the 
>Rings had been released a few years ago. I have tried to lay my hands
>on the tape (i.e. hoping it had been released on video) but haven't
>been too successful at it. Does anyone have any details about the
>movie or was the whole idea about the movie a figment of my imagination?
>
>	It would be interesting to see how Gollum looks in the movie -
>whether he lives up to the mean image I have of him in my mind!!
>
>-T.K.
Well, I read the book, and saw the 'animated feature' of Lord of the Rings..
I was not very impressed by the movie, probably because of the fact that
they attempted to fit WAY too much material into the two hour time span
of the movie.  If you've never read the book, then you'd have no clue
as to what the movie was about..  The Hobbit, on the other hand, 
IMHO, was much better, in that it went into great detail, about the
past of the characters.  LotR was kinda boring, to tell you the truth.
Again, this is all my opinion... So flames accepted! (just dont post 'em)
-Dave
 

Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien
From: cannell@churchill.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Eric.Cannell)
Subject: Re: Lord of the Rings - the movie?
Organization: NCR Corp., Columbia SC
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 19:47:22 GMT

In article <98850@netnews.upenn.edu> narayan@mipgsun.mipg.upenn.edu (T. K. Narayan  student 09-11-91 ) writes:
>
>	I heard sometime ago that an animated version of Lord of the 
>Rings had been released a few years ago. I have tried to lay my hands
>on the tape (i.e. hoping it had been released on video) but haven't
>been too successful at it. Does anyone have any details about the
>movie or was the whole idea about the movie a figment of my imagination?
>

The animated movie came out many years ago and only tells the story
up through the Battle of Hornburg, I think. Anyway, the producer of the 
movie, Ralph Balkin or something like that (he does a lot of animated stuff),
said he was *not* going to do part II.

Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien
From: jchokey@leland.Stanford.EDU (James Alexander Chokey)
Subject: Anyone attend the Tolkien Conference in Oxford?
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 92 03:20:16 GMT


	I'm curious.  Did anyone here attend the Tolkien Conference that
took place in Oxford back in August?  Would you care to post a description
of the event, what you thought of it, etc.?  How many people attended?
What sorts of things went on?  Was it more of a scholarly conference or
a fan conference?  etc. etc.

	--  Jim C. <jchokey@leland.stanford.edu>
From: markg@typhoon.rice.edu (mark gordon )
Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien
Subject: Tom Bombadil
Date: 23 Nov 92 23:15:04 GMT
Organization: Rice University

Tom Bombadil must be either a Vala or a Maia.  If he is a Maia, he must be
a higher order than the Istari because the Ring has no power over him whereas
Gandalf does not wish to take responsibility for the Ring because he is 
cautious of its power and Saruman covets the Ring.

He could be a Vala because not all of the Valar were named in Valaquenta which
says that some of the Valar did not take part in forming Earth.  It seems
unlikely that Tom would be Vala because all of the Valar who took part in the
creation, and thus who would be found on Earth, were named in Valaquenta.

I vote for him being Maia, but I do not believe that this is stated anywhere.

More was published on Tom: THE ADVENTURES OF TOM BOMBADIL.
Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien