From: gjh@ukc.ac.uk (G.J.Harewood)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Respect
Date: 16 Oct 92 17:49:30 GMT
Organization: Computing Lab, University of Kent at Canterbury, UK.

I mailed this to Travis first, but I thought I'd throw it into the
arena as well... I hope it doesn't offend anyone, but if you find your
style of leadership being questioned, then at least it made you think!

Cheers,
Greg.

----------
In article <1992Oct15.030114.5311@u.washington.edu> you write:
>I've got a question/problem, and I'm tossing it out to this group in hopes
>of coming up with a solution.
>
>I am the 21-year-old Scoutmaster of a troop of about 15 scouts in Tacoma, WA.
>I have been in the troop for the last 10 years.  Lately, it seems that the
>scouts have been showing less and less respect to both adult leaders and
>their fellow scouts.

At the risk of seeming unhelpful, expect to have to earn respect rather
than get it automatically. The best you can ever hope for is that your
Scouts will genuinely respect you on merit rather than position. Then
they will very likely copy your values.

This probably isn't new to you, but take it as the only sort of respect
their is. Anything else, such as respect for the flag is a value which
cannot be taught as knowledge, but something your boys will do if they
respect you and you make it clear it is what you expect.

This is all a bit of a pet subject for me, since the other leaders in my
troop completely fail to do what I'm saying consciously, and some fail to
do it at all.

>
>For example, two weeks ago a scout was acting up during the opening flag
>ceremony at our troop meeting.  He intentionally let the American flag drag
>on the floor at one point, and at another point, "accidentally" poked the 
>tip of the pole into the low ceiling.  He was reprimanded by an Assistant
>Scoutmaster, privately, but seemed to brush off the comments.

As a rule, I have always found you get what you expect from the Scouts. If
you have low standards, then so will they. Even supposing a private
reprimand did any good for that one boy, what about all the others? As far
as they can see, this kid just got away scott free with making a fool of
you guys.

The point is, whose standards are they? If they're just a set of rules,
well, they are there to be broken, right? However, if they are YOUR
personal standards which you *genuinely believe* in, then the boys will
see that they matter and are not optional (provided of course that they
respect you, see above).

Now the difference between the two categories is this: If it's something
you believe in, you have to let everyone know this by *never* letting
it slip for a moment. The ceremony should have been stopped immediately,
and the boy reprimanded publically and sent out of the room for later
discussion.

This of course makes things seem a little like school, and can create
something of an us and them attitude; it would be nice if it hadn't
got as bad as you describe. The fix for this problem is to have a short
pep talk at the beginning of your next meeting. What you have to do is
make it quite clear what your standards are and that you expect them to
be followed. Then enforce them from that moment onwards, without let.

I've talked too much about enforcing. I don't mean you have to punish,
just make your displeasure known. Make it absolutely clear what you want from
them.

>
>Numerous times, scouts are talking or wandering around the meeting room when
>another scout is (supposedly) giving a demonstration to the troop.  When
>asked to give the leader respect and to sit and listen (told either by the 
>SPL or myself) they will, briefly, but return to their goofing off within
>minutes.

Because:
1. They don't care what you want, or
2. They don't think you care.

Therefore:
1. Earn their respect, and value it.
2. Make it clear what you want, and that it matters to you. That it is
   a personal favour to you in some cases.

>
>They seem to treat ceremonies (flag, vespers) with little respect, and treat
>speakers with even less.
>
>I have been to BSLBT and have sent most of my junior leaders to Bushmaster
>(a week-long junior leader training course).  The PLC plans every meeting
>and was instrumental in planning our camping schedule for the upcoming
>year.  Adult participation is strong, but mainly in the background.  The
>boys recently elected a new SPL, who has a less forceful personality than 
>the previous one (a large age difference is a big part of this), but the 
>disrespectfulness was present during the old SPL's term as well.

You're doing well.
One hint I could well give you is to expect higher standards from your
PLs than the rest of the troop. If something's wrong, make sure you
apportion blame appropriately -- if the PL was at fault in not enforcing
your standards, then reprimand him, not the boys.

>
>I have talked to the boys as a group about this topic a few times in recent
>months, and last spring took up an entire meeting on the subject.  It works
>as a temporary fix, but within a few weeks the lack of respect is back.
>

I think you're saying to them "This is the way it should be," when in
fact you should be saying "This is what I want and this is what I expect
from you". And don't *let* the standards slip back. Ever.

>How do I get a room full of teenage boys to sit still and listen for 20

Make it interesting. On top of everything else I said.

>minutes, and, more importantly, how do I teach them the importance of
>respect for their leaders.  (Uniforming has not really been a problem, as the
>boys, except for one, tend to wear their uniforms to every meeting.)

If the other leaders are incapable of earning their own respect, then share
yours; make it clear to the boys that *you* expect them to respect the
other leaders as much as you. It may only work when you are present however.

>
>Any advice would be greatly appreciated.  (And if you can figure out how to
>get this one last scout to wear his uniform, that would be helpful, too.  Peer
>pressure hasn't seemed to work.)

Do you have patrol competitions? I mean with weekly inspection, etc?
If the competition is genuine, and the patrol spirit is genuine it should
work. But it's not the whole solution, and I would suggest that in your
pep talk you make it clear that anyone arriving in unacceptable uniform
will be sent straight home to change.

>J. Travis Lauricella (medic@u.washington.edu)
>Eagle Scout, '89
>Scoutmaster, Troop 53
>Lakewood Center, WA

Hope some of this is helpful. I'm not meaning to criticise, honest!
Actually, what you're doing is better than my troop, the PLs are organising
more. But Scouts in Blighty is from 10.5 to 15.5, and our current PLs are
only 14. Anyhow,

Cheerio,

Greg Harewood,
ASL
2nd Selsdon & Addington, GLSW.