HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: lars@craycos.com (Ron Larson)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Bad Accident
Date: 29 Jul 92 14:15:27 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Cray Computer Corporation

The discussion that will undoubtedly spin off from this post should
probably be moved to one of the sociology groups but...


In article <1992Jul28.195358.19369@cbnewsi.cb.att.com> boop@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (joseph.a.lapenta) writes:
>
[Several examples of police abusing their "priveledged" positions deleted]

I firmly believe that any generalization drawing from the actions of a
few members of a group (in this case police) to form an opinion of all
members of that group is erroneous.  However, I have often found it
interesting how opposites attract.  The "toughs" from high school ended
up either as petty criminals or police officers (legalized head
busting!!!!), practically every day we hear of another priest or
religious leader who is molesting children or otherwise abusing the
trust of their followers, as I was typing this message I heard a blurb
on NPR about a former KKK leader who converted to Judaism.  Just
because a person is carrying the credentials of a position of
authority, there is no guarantee that they are a person of integrity.

Ride bike.  Carefully.  You really are alone out there.

lars
-- 
Ron Larson                       |   If pro is the opposite of con,
Cray Computer Corporation        |   what is the opposite of progress??
lars@craycos.com  (719)-540-4232 |              Frank & Ernest
From: John_-_Forester@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Mandatory Helmet Law in Ontario in 18 months
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 09:54:49 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: na






                            ECONOMICS OF HELMET LAWS

   The news that Ontario may have a mandatory helmet law in 1993 has aroused
two kinds of opposition. 

The first argument concerns whether wearing a helmet saves money. A crude
estimate of U.S. statistics shows that it would. 

Helmets in use at any one time                         = 100 million
Annual cost of helmets at 10 yr life, at $50 each      = $500 million

Lives saved per year, approx 800 at $0.5 million       = $400 million
Disabilities saved per year, approx 2000
                         at $2 million                 = $4,000 million

These crude estimates show that each dollar spent on helmets is likely to
return anywhere from $1.50 to $8 dollars in reduced cost to society. The dollar
return appears sufficient to justify the required expenditure, to say nothing
of the improved quality of life for those who avoid death or disability.

The 800 deaths prevented is a reasonable estimate from current known
statistics. The value of lives is of course unknown. Some say they should be
evaluated only on the value of the medical services to the dying, which average
about $50,000 each, but society should include the cost of raising the person
(food, clothing, education, health care, parental care, etc.) and the value of
the lost services also. The 2,000 disabilities saved is a very rough estimate.
So far as the value of disabilities goes, I've seen many bicycle accident cases
where the cost of maintaining the disabled person is calculated at more than
$5 million. Perhaps a better estimate would be based on several different
levels of disability, since the extent of disability ranges from merely being
unable to hold a job to requiring total care 24 hours a day. Anyway, it looks
as though the cost of the deaths and injuries that would be prevented by
mandatory helmet wearing is very likely to exceed the cost of the helmets that
would perform the prevention. 

The cost reasoning also applies to the libertarian argument that people should
be allowed to risk their own lives. The libertarian argument doesn't apply
because we don't deny medical care to those who suffer brain injury while not
wearing helmets. If we did, then the libertarian argument might be valid; since
we do not, it cannot be valid. We all pay the costs of the medical services.

JForester@cup.portal.com               John Forester
                                       726 Madrone Ave
408-734-9426                           Sunnyvale CA 94086 USA
From: jbrodsky@oolong.hacks.arizona.edu (cool flowin gotta keep goin...)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Another flame on Nashbar, & PLEASE help me with my hubs!
Date: 31 Jul 92 07:15:34 GMT
Reply-To: jbrodsky@oolong.hacks.arizona.edu
Distribution: world,local
Organization: UofA Hardware And Computing Knowledge Society
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-a4

In article <3841@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP>, jwgst2+@pitt.edu (James W Gourgoutis) writes...
>Dear Rec.Bicycles:
>      
     [Flames deleted]


>       It also turns out that a friend of mine has a LX hub on his bike with
>135mm width, but he NEEDS a hub with 130mm spacing.  Since the hubs are the
>same, I was thinking of just swapping axels and spacers with him.  The problem
>is that I would have to re-true the wheels to center them.
>	Is this more/less aggravation than complaning to Nashbar and sending
>the rims back to them?  Incidentally, the front wheel is fine.
>	I really feel cheated.  I USED to think that Nashbar was god-like.
>I'm not so sure now.
>	Please advise!
>	I am going to call their customer service or technical center tomorrow
>morning to see what they will say.  Wish me luck!
> 
>

   Why would you have to re-true the wheels?  If the wheel is centered on the
hub of a 130mm hub, and you put a 135mm axle in, wont it just add 2.5mm to each
side.  I change axles alot for different bikes, and I don't see your problem.
Please inform me.


    -Joel Brodsky                

________________________________________________________________________ 
|                                  |                                   |
|  jbrodsky@hacks.arizona.edu      |  "May the next hill be your last, |
|  jbrodsky@seagull.tucson.az.us   |   and all winds be on your back." |
|  jbrodsky@maria.wustl.edu        |                                   |
|  jmbrodsk@nyx.cs.du.edu          |          -jb '92                  |
|__________________________________|___________________________________|

                              _ _-  ___O
                             - -_- _\ <_
                        ..........(_)+(_) 
Xref: sparky rec.bicycles:18686 can.general:3491 ont.general:1222 soc.culture.canada:5299 ott.general:526
From: seales@taquilee.inria.fr (Brent Seales)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Tour de France:  translations from l'Equipe are done
Date: 27 Jul 92 08:46:48 GMT
Organization: INRIA Sophia-Antipolis, France

I hope that you have found the summaries from l'Equipe interesting
and fun.  I've enjoyed translating them for you, and I will miss the
great coverage in l'Equipe when I am no longer able to find copies
on the local newsstand;  I'll be leaving France on August 15 to
return to the U.S.

I will still be connected to the internet in the U.S. - I'll be at the 
University of Kentucky in Lexington, doing my best to dodge traffic and 
find a club to ride with.

If anyone out there lives in the Lexington/Louiville area, I'll be
looking for a few USCF races there in late August, and it would be great 
to meet and race/ride together.  I'm looking forward to a race where I 
don't have to grunt (and be grunted at) in French;  I have enough trouble 
understanding and speaking French the conventional way! [hep - a la gauche;
putain!  fermez le porte!]

Vive le sport - vive le velo - vive le Tour de France!

Brent

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brent SEALES (seales@sophia.inria.fr)     INRIA Sophia-Antipolis, France
Tel: (+33) 93.65.78.XX  Fax: XX=45       Office: XX=37  Secretary: XX=30
----------------------               |              --------------------
INRIA Sophia-Antipolis             --+--         109 Allee des Poivriers
2004, Route des Lucioles             |                Domaine Val d'Azur
BP 93, 06902 Sophia-Antipolis Cedex  | 06560 Valbonne   Tel. 92.94.09.36
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: mikes@velo.ucr.edu (Mike Shebanek)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Time for rec.bicycles.racer?
Date: 22 Jul 92 00:21:26 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.142840.9110@meaddata.com> georged@meaddata.com  
(George Dibos) writes:
> There is such a mixed bag of postings in this group that it is 
> getting to be a hassle to wade through...  several hundred after
> a weekend, and maybe a hundred each weekday.
> 
> It seems that nearly all of them fall into "basic" and "advanced"
> categories, which is to say recreational riders and enthusiast/
> racers.
> 
> Is it time to spin off an enthusiast's group?  
> -- 


I totally agree on this one.  It is way too much work to filter the things  
that don't interest me. I'm on the Internet, not dialing in, so things for  
me are much faster than for most I imagine.  I don't know how anyone else  
puts up with it.  May I suggest the following groups:

rec.bicycles.touring
rec.bicycles.racing
rec.bicycles.equipment
rec.bicycles.advocacy
rec.bicycles.rides
rec.bicycles.legal

How do we get these in place?

--
Mike Shebanek
Computing and Communications
University of California, Riverside
Riverside, CA.  92521
From: BRANDT_JOBST/HP1900_01@HPLOMG.HPL.HP.COM
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: ULTRA marathon cycling
Date: 30 Jul 92 22:21:53 GMT

Thomas Kunich writes:

> You mean to tell me that these guys actually convinced
> you of that BS about the bike being drawn along by the
> 'wind' from the 18 wheeler? :-)

I assume you jest but in the event that you are serious I should ask
whether you ever rode in a convertible car.  If you did this at an age
where you had reasonably long hair you must have noticed the strong
forward draft and that at 30 mph it is strong enough, if applied to a
bicyclist, to propel him without assistance.  Now, a convertible car
is not designed specifically to do this so you can imagine that if one
were to do some aerodynamic designing, the effect could be substantially
increased.  Because these effects increase as the square of velocity
while rolling resistance increases linearly, it should be evident
that at higher speeds pedaling to propel the bicycle goes to zero and
ultimately backpedaling or braking becomes necessary.

As I stated, John Howard was towed to a substantial speed (100+ mph if
I recall correctly) before "cutting loose".  At speed his 20 inch wheels
were turning about 2500 rpm and with a cadence of 200 that would require
a gear ratio of 12.5:1 with a double reduction chain (as he had).  I don't
recall the ratio but it was in this magnitude.  At this speed and a foot
to road ratio of 1:19, a 10 pound pressure that a rider might exert on the
pedals at this speed becomes less than one pound forward propulsion.  The
10 pound estimate is most likely high since pedal force goes to zero at
the limit of spin as is apparent from riding rollers in a small gear at
such a cadence.

That controlling a bicycle in turbulent air behind a wind screen is
difficult and dangerous is not disputed.  My point is that the rider in
these events does not contribute to propulsion and that the pedals are
merely a device to make the concept of someone "riding a bicycle" at such
speeds palpable.

jobst_brandt@hplabs.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: bruce@uxc.cso.uiuc.edu (Bruce Krueger)
Subject: Re: Mische
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 20:40:08 GMT

jpanusa@sol.UVic.CA (John Panusa) writes:
>Is anyone familiar with the 'Mische' brand name?  Speicifically, are the hubs
>and cranks (road racing parts) of relatively good quality?  I have just 
>purchased a 'made in Italy' Miele (used) for $150.00, which includes these
>parts, as well as Campy Nuovo Record parts.  The bike shops around here have
>never heard of 'Mische.'  
   *******
   hmmmm, well..

   it's 'miche', I believe, and yeah, they're better than average campy-clone
   italian components.  they have hub cone compatibility with campy, which 
   makes them easy to find parts for, and the crank is similar to super
   record for a whole lot less$$.

   as for miele, I think they're made in the canadian part of italy, but
   I may be mistaken...


Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: jmiller@brew.asteroids (Jeff J. Miller)
Subject: Re: Bicycle Paths
Reply-To: jmiller@network.com
Organization: Network Systems Corporation
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 18:23:33 GMT

>|>How would you like it if every car that
>|>passed you on the road honked its horn as it passed you. This action
>indicates
>|>that the passing vehicle thinks you were not aware of or anticipating the
>|>the action of passing. Any vehicle or person on a roadway or bicycle path
>|>should always be aware of other vehicles, that is part of the responsibility
>|>of being on the roadway. If pedestrians on bike paths are not capable of
>|>being aware of their situation, or at least anticipating it, they are
>a hazard.

Bike paths leave MUCH less room then roads so the available room for error
just makes problems greater.

>|>Why all the signs on bicycle paths and shared sidewalks, to notify the 
>|>pedestrians that they should be aware of bicycles sharing this non-roadway
>|>surface.

I often run into bicycles and pedestrians that do not pay attention to signs
and rules.  Also, because bikes are so quiet it is very easy to sneak up on
someone without them knowing; cars make much more noise.  You could take the
above attitude but I myself prefer to ride/drive defensively by not assuming
that others are going to behave in the way I think they should.

>My current strategy comes from my downhill skiing background. When
>one skier overtakes another is is customary to yell out ON YOUR LEFT or
>ON YOUR RIGHT. I make it a practice of always passing on the left so now
>I yell out PASSING ON YOUR LEFT PLEASE early enough to allow them to
>realize what I said and translate it into some action, which so far has
>been to stay in their current track or to move farther off to the right.
>Also, as an apology for yelling at them, I always say THANK YOU as I pass them.
>I don't know if this strategy would work if there were a lot of people
>or children on the path. In that case I would probably just change my
>ride time. I have found that there are not a lot of people on the
>pathway at 5:30 am.

This is the way I ride and I have not ever run into people that become
offended because I let them know I'm overtaking them.  Actually, I get
quite a few thank yous back.

Another thing to add is that if you are riding in a group, it doesn't
hurt to announce the number of riders coming in back of you.


--
Jeff Miller                 Network Systems Corporation
Internetwork Group          7600 Boone Avenue North
jmiller@network.com         Minneapolis MN 55428   (612)424-4888

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: bruce@gordian.com (Bruce Hafford)
Subject: Airless tires?? any info?
Organization: Gordian
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 22:45:39 GMT


Don't know if this has been discussed before, but has anyone heard
of or used the solid tires from a company called Airless Technology Group?
If so, I'd like to hear about it.... email preferred, but I'll try to keep
up with the group for a little while.  If you've discussed this to death
recently, can someone summarize for me?  thanks...

Bruce@gordian.com
From: Howard.Gerber@f88.n106.z1.fidonet.org (Howard Gerber)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: MTB Touring (was: Tourin
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 08:29:16 -0500

 TH> I'm pretty curious about recombents. Isn't the much lower position 
 TH> increasing your chances of an accident? 
 
 Actually, the unusual shape of recumbents makes many drivers curious. They 
 stop and as you strange questions. They notice you lots more than they notice 
 other bicycles. 
 
 TH> What about attaching panniers etc? 
 
 That's easy on my RANS recumbant. I had to use a front rack in the rear to 
 avoid conflicts with the seat supports, but other than that no major problems.

 The rear wheel of a RANS is 27", so that helps. I don't think you would be 
 able to find front panniers for the 20" front wheel. 
 
 TH> The long wheelbase looks like it pretty seriously harms the 
 TH> manuveurability of the bike. 
 
 There are short recumbants, too. These are shorter than most diamond framed 
 bicycles. 
 
 TH> And lastly, here in the San Francisco bay area we have lots of

 TH> 10% and greater hills to climb. In fact, most of the good riding 
 TH> is in the hills since the traffic is more limited. Although I 
 TH> have seen a couple of recumbents running about they always seem a 
 TH> great deal slower than your standard safety bike. So how are they 
 TH> in real hills? 
 
 I always find it more difficult to climb hills on my recumbant than on 
 my diamond framed bikes, but I know some recumbant riders who have much 
 more experience on the 'bents and can beat me up the hills no matter 
 what bike I use. 
 
... OFFLINE 1.36 * I'm pedalling as fast as I can 

 * Origin: Two Wheelers - The Bicylists' Communications Link (1:106/88)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: idelson@bms.com (Ira Idelson)
Subject: Re: Barry Tompkins (Was: Re: ESPN & TdF)
Reply-To: idelson@bms.com
Organization: Bristol-Myers Squibb PRI
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 11:01:31 GMT

How do you pronounce the last name of Z team member Atla Kvallsvol. Phil Liggett and 
Paul Sherwen seem to pronounce it Kuh-vallsvol or just Vallsvol while Barry Tompkins insists on pronouncing it Kavasoll. 

I'm not sure which is right but Kavasoll definitely seems wrong to me!

Ira Idelson
From: cyn@odin.mda.uth.tmc.edu (Cyndi Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Thanks to Brent for TdeF postings
Date: 27 Jul 1992 14:45:51 GMT
Organization: MD Anderson Cancer Center

In article <1992Jul27.074119.1@physics.carleton.ca>, ogg@physics.carleton.ca writes:
> 
> Many thanks to Brent Seales for a *fantastic* job of posting the l'Equipe
> articles on the Tour de France.
> Brent, for those of us living in bicycle-news-starved N. America, (not to
> mention those of us who choose not to have a TV) your reports were the lifeline
> to the real world events of the last 3 weeks.
> 
> Thanks a bunch,
> 
Hers, here.
I second the above sentiments (THANKS BRENT!!!)

-------------
All opinions are mine, I tell you, MINE, MINE, MINE, MINE, MINE (unless you want to rent them for a small fee...)
-Cyndi Smith-------------------cyn@odin.mda.uth.tmc.edu
-M.D. Anderson Cancer Center-----Houston, Texas
-ph: 713/794-4938--------------fax: 713/792-4262
From: BRANDT_JOBST/HP1900_01@HPLOMG.HPL.HP.COM
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: touring packing list
Date: 31 Jul 92 19:59:16 GMT

Michael Chuang writes:

> For some reason I have the impression that Jobst doesn't wear
> cleats.  True or not, for those that do, it's real nice to have
> shoes one can walk in.  Sandals are nice.  I also suggest a pair
> of "Kung Fu" black cloth shoes.  These are light and sometimes
> look more formal than sandals, which is occasionally beneficial.

I have been using SPD pedals for about eight months and find that
walking on a recessed steel cleat works like any ordinary sport
shoe.  No additional shoes are needed.  I formerly rode Avocet
touring shoes that have a stiff rubber slotted cleat to engage
toe clip style pedals.  Since toe clips and straps are about
extinct, it was time for a change.  I am glad SPD came along in
time for the rescue.

jobst_brandt@hplabs.hp.com
From: mikes@velo.ucr.edu (Mike Shebanek)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Dura-Ace vs. Ultegra - The story continues-Final
Date: 23 Jul 92 16:03:13 GMT

Thanks for all of the help everyone.  I ended up using a tandem shift  
cable to replace the short one I got with the Dura-Ace upgrade kit.  One  
person suggested that maybe there were two cables of different lengths  
included with the STI kit.  I didn't notice their length when I was  
installing and I installed and trimmed the front derailleur first so maybe  
there were different sizes and I used the wrong one.

The other item that may be of interest is that with Eddy Merckx frames,  
the shift cables go through a slot inside the bottom bracket shell.   
Shimano provides a special plastic cable guide to be mounted under the  
bottom bracket, but I'd have to drill a hole in the bottom bracket to  
mount it and I don't want to drill into my $$$ frame.

After getting the longer shift cable and installing it without using the  
special cable guide, my next problem was that I don't have the newer  
HyperGlide or superglide chainrings and freewheel cogs.  I'm using the  
original 8-spd casette hub and standard round rings Shimano requires--not  
recommends :-( 

So I bet you're wondering if all of this stuff works together?

You bet.  It's great. You have to adjust the cables after cable stetch but  
otherwise it is an incredibly smooth system.  I can't imagine not having  
it.  Yes it' heavier than standard brakes/shiftes, but if you try it, you  
won't care.  Personally, one of the features I like most is that contour  
and size of the brake lever handle fits my hand really well.  The older  
"thin" model is too thin and hurts my hands on long rides.

If anyone is considering STI, I'd highly recommend it.  
--
Mike Shebanek
Computing and Communications
University of California, Riverside
Riverside, CA.  92521
From: mindy@galaxy.Eng.Sun.COM (Mindy Bergstrom)
Newsgroups: sun.bike,rec.bicycles
Subject: Mt. Biking in Palo Alto Area
Followup-To: poster
Date: 30 Jul 1992 20:46:02 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: galaxy-12
Keywords: mt. biking

Hi,
I am new to the area and interested in any tips
on where to mountain bike in the Palo Alto area.

Also, if anyone has information on organized
mt. bike rides I would apprecaite that as well.

Thanks for any help.

mindy
(mindy.bergstrom@Eng.sun.com)

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles,ont.general,can.general
From: Mother Nature <gaea@zooid.guild.org>
Subject: Re: Bicycle helmets (was Re: Ontario government ...)
Organization: The Zoo of Ids
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 19:08:04 GMT

jeff@is.s.u-tokyo.ac.jp writes:
>In article <25JUL92.10843318.0078@VM1.MCGILL.CA> CZ94000 <CZ94@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA> writes:
>...
> >An accident can occur anywhere, anytime.  You don't have to be going
> >very fast at all to sustain serious head injury.
>...
> >I wouldn't go further than the end of my driveway without my
> >helmet on.  I've never needed it, just as I've never needed my
> >seat belt.  But I think doing without either is foolish.
>
>I am always amazed at the varying attitudes on helmets.  People I know
>don't wear helmets when they go up into the Gatineau Hills because
>there are so few cars.  Like the absence of cars suddenly makes the 
>70+kph descent safe from gravel, bumps, other bikes...
>
>Then there are the "only on serious rides" people.  Like they say,
>most accidents happen close to home.  (There are stats somewhere on
>that for people in Philosophy or Math :-) One of the more serious
>accidents I have had was on an empty quiet street about 1 km from home
>while doing the 2 km commute to school.  For one I just wiped out (no
>cars involved) and did a real good face plant and whacked my head so
>good that all I know of what happened is from the hospital records.
>Judging from the missing part of my body, without the helmet I would
>not have my left ear or eye.  (Yes, I know its anecdotal).

Ok, maybe I should have phrased it differently. I've already replied to
"CZ94@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA" because I didn't think that this would be that much of
a discussion. To paraphrase what I said, I like going out on rides around my
neighbourhood where I am going no more than twice the speed of a walking
person. I can still fall off my bike, but I doubt I'll be doing much damage.
I really would hate to get a ticket for not wearing a helmet when doing
something no more dangerous than walking/jogging. Personally I think that 
helmets should be strongly stressed, but not enforced. But as I'm sure you're 
aware, that's just one person's opinion.

>As an added bonus, consider that the bears will have a harder time
>getting their mouths around your head :-)

At least I don't have to worry about that, living in Toronto... :)

Gaea


Newsgroups: rec.bicycles