HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: C_PUFFER@unhh.unh.edu (Charles   Puffer)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Group in distress
Date: 14 Dec 1992 05:27:08 GMT
Organization: University of New Hampshire
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: unhh.unh.edu
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.12




Quick and polite greetings!

     We have a group at the University of New Hampshire.
     Or so we think...the U here has some concerns with the safety
of our rattan fighters.  What we'd appreciate greatly is some email
from ANYONE and EVERYONE so we can present ourselves NOT as some wacko
fringe organization.  This would include:  (1) The leader of your group 
answerable to your college, and how they can be contacted.  (2) The college 
official that deals primarily with the SCA on your campus, and how they can
be contacted as well.  Any statistics, comments and suggestions are also 
welcome.  
     This may be presented to our administration, so that they may gather
the information they need to determine our future.  If your university 
thinks highly of you, please respond.

[_-_-_-_-_]            
 |       |______________     Charles Puffer
 |      /             /  \   C_PUFFER@UNHH.UNH.EDU
 |    /_____________/      \
 |    |            |  |^|  |        Lord Duncan Forbes
 |    |            |  | |  |         Barony of Stonemarche
From: Tim@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Tim)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: ARMS9209.EXE
Date: 12 Dec 92 01:06:35 GMT


 Heralds Point BBS (1:124/4229, 214-699-0057) now has available a
 self-extracting archive file called ARMS9209.EXE, which decomposes into
 five rather hefty text files containing a listing of all registered names
 and armory in the SCA through the latest LOAR (September 92). It's in
 tab-delimited text format: the fields are name, date, type, blazon,
 kingdom of origin, reference source. Replacing the tabs with a vertical
 bar (|) ought to make it usable with ASFA. About 2.9 meg uncompressed.

 For those without IBM-PC compatible machines, we can readily make
 arrangement to mail you the same information on diskette, at no cost -
 just send us your address and required disk format.

    Tadhg, Obelisk


 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
From: pwr@jab.tucson.az.us (Patrick Reed)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Aluminum Armour (was Re: HELP WANTED RE KINGDOM AWARDS)
Keywords: armor, authenticity
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 22:57:28 MST
Organization: Just Another Bbs. Tucson, AZ

Volfred quotes Dennis:
 
> How much different is this from using cold-rolled steel to
> make a coat-of-plate ? Not much, really, I think. And it's
> better than the usuall stuff that passes for mail in the SCA,
> which don't even come close to representing period mail.

Bravo, milord!  The SCA allows for creativity as a means of getting 
around all of these nasty issues.  You obviously know what the proper 
methods of armor construction should be.  You can document what was used 
versus what you have used, and your project becomes much more acceptable 
than carpet armor.
 
It is just as acceptable as armor made from period materials.  The point 
is that you have learned something about such methods, and you might even 
be able to teach someone else of those methods.  This is what we are all 
about.
 
The need for authenticity can only go so far as the pocket-book will 
allow.  I propose that we not eliminate more than half of our membership 
by becoming too restrictive.

How many of those who argue these points have worn a polyester
tunic to an event, or have drunk from an aluminum tankard at an event.  
Eliminate the blatantly mundane, but do not eliminate the creative 
cover-up.  If it looks and functions as period materials might, then the 
item is acceptable to me.  All I ask is whether something about the 
Middle Ages has been learned in the process.
 
Volfred
From: hwt@bcarh11a.bnr.ca (Henry Troup)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Metropolitan Museam (New York) Costume Institute
Date: 16 Dec 92 20:53:47 GMT
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada
Originator: hwt@bcarh11a

Today's news says that the Met has opened a new costume institute and
it's first exhibit.  People in NYC over Christmas may be interested.


-- 
Henry Troup - H.Troup@BNR.CA (Canada) - BNR owns but does not share my opinions
	       Legislated morality is the enemy of true morality
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: guth@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (G.Guth)
Subject: Re: The SCA Religion? ( was: Through a looking glass, darkly)
Organization: UTCS Public Access
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 09:33:53 GMT

In article <1h00aiINNn7v@agate.berkeley.edu> dgreen@athena (David Greenebaum) writes:
>Hello from Bjalfi!
>
>>When you look at the sense of community the SCA provides, I think calling it a
>>fraternal organization, such as the Masons/Elks/etc., is much more accurate.  
>>A'isha bint Jamil, of the Barony of Stonemarche, in the Kingdom of the East
>
>Okay, everybody, so what's the SCA secret handshake?  (Not the Laurel
>handshake, the Pelican handshake, the Herald handshake, or any of the
>subgroups--I want to hear what's the secret handshake for the WHOLE of
>the SCA.)

You mean you don't know?  An intruder in our midst!

Richard Britnell.
:)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: dgreen@thor (David Greenebaum)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Looking for armorial ftp site???
Date: 17 Dec 1992 22:45:14 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.berkeley.edu
Keywords: FTP, Armorial

Good greetings to all from Bjalfi!

Quoth Volfred:
>The armorial is at Stanford University for FTP.  I will look for the 
>address.  It is also online at Herald's Point BBS in the Barony of the 
>Steppes, Ansteorra.

It's in the "/pub" directory at "meadow.stanford.edu", and is available
via anonymous ftp.  (It ain't small; be sure of your quotas.)

---------------------  Bjalfi Thordharson/College of St. Katherine/Province of
 |\  | |\  |\  |// |       the Mists/Principality of the Mists/West Kingdom
 | > | |\\ | \ |/  |   David Greenebaum/University of California/Berkeley, CA
 |<  | | \ |   |   |   dgreen@athena.berkeley.edu, dgreen@garnet.berkeley.edu
 | > | |   |   |   |
 |/  | |   |   |   |   "I make mistakes, but I am on the side of good -- by
---------------------  accident and happenchance." -- the Golux
From: dgreen@thor (David Greenebaum)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Persona's vs. Person's Ethnicity (was Re: Through a looking glass, darkly)
Date: 17 Dec 1992 23:00:21 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.berkeley.edu

On the subject of "does your persona's ethnicity match yours":

Bjalfi Thordharson was born in southern Norway of southern Norwegian
parents, and his ancestry is Norse as far back as anyone can remember.
David Greenebaum (where I was born doesn't really matter, but it was
in the US) has ancestry which is mostly German Jewish, with a little
bit of Polish thrown in and mixed well.  Add the white of 1 egg, and--
Oops.  Got carried away there; sorry...

---------------------  Bjalfi Thordharson/College of St. Katherine/Province of
 |\  | |\  |\  |// |       the Mists/Principality of the Mists/West Kingdom
 | > | |\\ | \ |/  |   David Greenebaum/University of California/Berkeley, CA
 |<  | | \ |   |   |   dgreen@athena.berkeley.edu, dgreen@garnet.berkeley.edu
 | > | |   |   |   |
 |/  | |   |   |   |   "I make mistakes, but I am on the side of good -- by
---------------------  accident and happenchance." -- the Golux
From: doconnor@sedona.intel.com (Dennis O'Connor)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Aluminum Armour (was Re: HELP WANTED RE KINGDOM AWARDS)
Date: 16 Dec 92 09:04:56
Organization: Intel i960(tm) Architecture
	<62862@mimsy.umd.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: potato.intel.com
In-reply-to: kuijt@umiacs.umd.edu's message of 15 Dec 92 21:30:07 GMT


kuijt@umiacs.umd.edu (David Kuijt) writes:
] Dennis O'Connor wrote mentioning the aluminum armour he is going to make;
] Kwellend-Njal responded "Sigh";
] Dennis O'Connor then wrote back:
] >I'm not sure what the sigh means. It's not like many people use
] >the _real_ material for functioning SCA armour : hand-forged iron
] >or steel, as opposed to modern cold-rolled steel, or period-tanned leather,
] >or actual forge-welded links for chain. We are not a museum, after all.
] >ANd period armour was meant to stop sharp swords, not rattan.
] >I'd certainly be duly impressed by someone who DID make their
] >armour out of really period material, but I don't bemoan it's absence.
]
] This is tantamount to saying "We can't be perfect, therefore X is fine."
] In this case X is aluminum armour.  This is just plain wrong.  [...]
]
] For me the question is not whether Aluminum, Titanium, and other modern
] metals (or plastics, for that matter) are acceptable.  The question is
] rather whether they are an appropriate final goal.  If everyone who had
] plastic armour wished for metal or leather; if everyone who had aluminum
] armour wished for steel; if everyone who had butted chainmail wished for
] welded mail,....  If all this happened, I would be very happy.  Because
] those who defend their personal level of authenticity as the right one
] miss the point.  None of us have done as much as we might.

Those who defend their their personal level of authenticity as the right
one FOR THEM are ABSOLUTELY CORRECT, as long as they remain within the
bounds established by the governing bodies and documents of the SCA.

Anyone who disagrees with this is trying to force their own personal
opinion of "what the SCA is for" on others. And that's WRONG.
Some people just don't get this point.

Aluminum lamellar that is built exactly like Mongol steel laminar
IS my ultimate goal. From the point of view of educating others
(what other use is authenticity?) it will be every bit as good
as if I used real forged steel, just so long as people understand
that period Mongols would have used (thinner) steel, would have
laquered not anodized, and would have used silk cord instead
of polyester to tie it all together. And at the same time, this
armour will protect me in war, which is my primary reason for
making it : the authenticity issue is secondary.

How much different is this from using cold-rolled steel to
make a coat-of-plate ? Not much, really, I think. And it's
better than the usuall stuff that passes for mail in the SCA,
which don't even come close to representing period mail.

--
Dennis O'Connor			doconnor@sedona.intel.com
From: c1741@moncol.monmouth.edu (MICHAEL CARSON)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Military Digging (was Re: Drifting Away...
Date: 15 Dec 92 20:02:45 GMT
Organization: Monmouth College, W. Long Branch, N.J.  07764

In article <1992Dec11.170208.27391@epas.toronto.edu> nusbache@epas.utoronto.ca (Aryk Nusbacher) writes:
>
>A solid wall of shields absorbing a cavalry charge?  When did a formed
>body of cavalry manage to get their horses to thump into shields?
>
>How did they do it?

	For that matter, WHY did they do it?  :)


|o|\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/|o|
|o| Of Course I speak  |      michael carson       | Carpe Diem, Man.        |o|
|o|  only for myself.  | c1741@moncol.monmouth.edu | Carpe Vitam, too.       |o|
|o| Would YOU let me   +---------------------------+-------------------------|o|
|o|  speak for you?!?  |      All flames to: nobody@moncol.monmouth.edu      |o|
|o|\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/|o|
From: bloodthorn@sloth.equinox.gen.nz (Jennifer Geard)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Knitting 
Distribution: world
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 04:23:34 GMT
Organization: Lethargy Inc.


Ilaine wrote:

  >         knitting is indeed period, though late. If you like knitting hats 
  > and gloves you are in luck, there are several examples of each of these 
  > extant. Hand-knit stockings are the perfect accessory but if you are 
  > going to do them in the proper fineness, you will be at it a while :)

Good my lady, may I recommend to you Irena Turnau's article "Diffusion of 
Knitting in Medieval Europe" to be found in _Cloth and Clothing in Medieval 
Europe:  Essays in Memory of Professor F. M. Carus-Wilson._  Studies in 
Textile History 2.  N. B. Harte and K. G. Ponting, eds.  London:  Heinemann, 
1983, pp. 368-389. 

This article discusses knitting throughout our period, including mention of 
such artifacts as "[t]he knitted leggings of Bishop Konrad von Sternberg (who 
was buried in Worms in 1192)"  (Turnau, p. 380).  There is also reference to 
knitted liturgical gloves from before the turn of the millenium. 

Pagan le Chaunster
________________________________________________________________________
Jennifer Geard                         bloodthorn@sloth.equinox.gen.nz
Christchurch, New Zealand
From: Beth.Appleton@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Beth Appleton)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Heraldic references...
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 16:30:30

 CP> Inter library loan is often "strongly discouraged" by librarians,
 CP> who have limited budgets for such things, and don't want to see
 CP> it wasted on something "frivolous".

 CP> Nor do I blame them.
 Might I suggest, since the cost of Papsworth's started this thread, 
 that the seekee subsidize the cost, if the cost is truly the factor 
 in{ slow/no Interlibrary Loan?  For a single device, it would seem 
 worth it, as opposed to shelling out $100-125 for a copy of Papsworth. 
 Obviously, if your local library doesn't have it, then your local herald  is a bit handicapped, unless he asks each submittor to cover the cost 
 of subsidizing the ILL -- or makes them wait until he has several to 
 check.
     In truth, I don't know just the right way to "force" the system.  I 
 am fortunate enough to live in an area where an ILL request is quickly 
 and expeditiously handled, and where there is available a wide variety 
 of heraldic books, if I'm willing to play their rules.  Having seen 
 the benefits of ILL, I'd be willing to go out of my way to make it 
 happen wherever I might wind up, whether that is by paying the fees or 
 whether it is by volunteering my personal time to the library so that 
 they can't complain on those grounds.  In my ever-so humble opinion, 
 any librarian who stands in the way of education because the particular 
 topic seems frivolous to them should be run out of town on a rail. ;^>
     Gwenllian Cwmystwyth

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
From: doconnor@sedona.intel.com (Dennis O'Connor)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Aluminum Armour
Date: 19 Dec 92 06:01:56
Organization: Intel i960(tm) Architecture
	<1gnq2gINNqjb@agate.berkeley.edu>
	<1992Dec17.074223.10925@midway.uchicago.edu>
	<DOCONNOR.92Dec17235840@potato.sedona.intel.com>
	<1992Dec18.164045.3904@pbhya.PacBell.COM>
NNTP-Posting-Host: potato.intel.com
In-reply-to: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM's message of Fri, 18 Dec 1992 16:40:45 GMT


whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt) writes:
] I casual conversation with a local worthy last night, I have come
] across something you might wish to consider for a finish on your
] armor...
]
] One of the problems I see--and the one that is most likely to result
] in the remarks that you rightly deplore--is that an anodized finish
] doesn't really *look* like lacquer.  Lacquer, to my eye, gives an
] illusion of depth that is lacking in most other finishing techniques.

Well, I've seen some anodized finished like that. Anodization forms
a thin layer of aluminum oxide on the aluminum, which when fresh
has tiny pores in it. In this state, dyes can be apllied to the
material which enter the pores. Since the aluminum oxide itself
is transparent, and the dye is dispersed within it's thickness,
this can produce a laquer-like effect. Of course, if you use
too much of an opaque die, as is done to make black anodized
aluminum, you loose this depth. The pores can be sealed after
dying by application of steam. But anyway ...

] Apparently there exists an epoxy that can be baked onto aluminum that
] does give the correct look and is readily available. [..] According to
] my informant it dos not flake off or chip under SCA use on armor and
] is flexible enough to conform when dents are made.  In am given to
] understand that it is widely used in Trimaris.  Perhaps one of our
] fellow Rialtans from that realm can supply additional details.

I'd apreciate that. Anodizing a color onto the aluminum requires
first "anodizing" (actually, stripping off the old anodization
but the aluminum is still the anode of an electro-chemical cell)
the peice in a 90C bath of Trisodium Phosphate and Sodium Carbonate,
then actually anodizing it in 20% sulfuric acid, then dyeing it,
and then (optionally) sealing it with steam. This is not only
a lot of work, it's with dangerous chemicals and reactions (mainly
there's the evolved hydrogen, which needs to be efficiently vented
or it will accumulate in "puddles" in/on the ceiling just waiting
to be set off and burn the house down.

Baked-on epoxy has got to be easier ! Of course, it has to
bake on at low temperature ( under 500F ) or it will remove
the temper from the aluminum. I hope/assume this is the case.

Thanks !
--
Dennis O'Connor			doconnor@sedona.intel.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: dburgdor@cwis.unomaha.edu (Darryl Burgdorf)
Subject: Re: SCA Role playing game
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 16:38:09 GMT


"Axel Rose" (uplink@cwis.unomaha.edu) wrote:

> 	May I ask... WHY??? I always thought the SCA was one BIG roleplaying
> game... at least, that's the way the Barony of Lonely Tower treats it!

Um .... a "BIG roleplaying game"?  Exactly HOW does Lonely Tower treat the SCA
that way?

Just curious .... and a bit confused ....

	In service,

		Ld Elwyn of Thornbury

		(Barony of the Lonely Tower, Kingdom of Calontir)


	dburgdor@cwis.unomaha.edu
	"I once let my mind wander, and it never came back"

From: Riki.Beth.Stein@f906.n142.z1.fidonet.org (Riki Beth Stein)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Sca geography (was: thro
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 12:20:06 -0500

And then Jingle Bells, Mortar Shel said...
 JBMS> When I was talking with some friends in the SCA I mentioned that 
 JBMS> I'd like to form a Roman Cohort or a Highland Regiment.  They pointed
 JBMS> out  that those two organizations were outside the period, one a few
 JBMS> hundred  years before, the second a hundred years after.  I had not
 JBMS> been aware of  the exact period being examined but when I was made
 JBMS> aware, I changed my  mind.  I currently have no idea what kind of unit
 JBMS> to form, but I am bending  my energies to working in period.

How about Italian condottiere?  Or Swiss pikemen? 

-Ariane Baccadoro, Venetian expatriate residing in Switzerland


... Bushido: The way of the shrubbery!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: tabron@binah.cc.brandeis.edu ("Sod the proles!")
Subject: Re: Through a looking glass, darkly
Reply-To: tabron@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Organization: Brandeis University
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 18:57:56 GMT

Hmm. Let's talk about this. 

Arval is right to point out that we should not stop with simply saying
"nonwhite people are just not interested." This sounds to me uncomfortably like
things I have heard in the past regarding small business ownership, college
education, whitecollar jobs, etc. I do _not_ think it's true or at least the
full story that African-American or Asian-American or Hispanic or Native
American people are just "not interested" in the SCA. There may be some racism
implicit in the institution "the SCA" that we all as individuals do not
subscribe to; if so, we should find it and stomp on it like the roach it is.

I'm interested in the topic of what exactly is the "geography" of the SCA.
Someone else mentioned this, and Arval also spoke of the "geographical" rubric
of the SCA. Does the SCA cover a specific geography as well as a specific
time period? If so, what is it, and what then should we make of all the
Japanese, Arabic, and (you knew it was coming) Mongolian personas in our midst?
I for one am sick to death of Western European history and find that the study
of it to the exclusion of all else results in a very _wrong_ picture of what
the world was like in the Middle Ages. Let's face it, for most of our period,
the _really_ interesting wars, politics, culture advances, etc. were _not_
happening in any cheesy little Western European nation. Anyone who tries to
build for themselves an idea of what religious ideology was in Belgium in the
12th century has _got_ to take into account European reaction to Muslims and
Jews, for example, ALONG WITH heretical subsects, etc. Ideas do not spring from
nowhere, and most of the good ones in our society came from outside of it. 

Judith Tabron
Raedwynne aet thaem Grene Wudu and proud Mongol

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: schuldy@progress.COM (Mark Schuldenfrei)
Subject: Re: Heraldic questions...
Organization: Progress Software Corp.
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 18:40:25 GMT

I'm going to pick a small nit with one of Arval's points, and add one:
I read his argument with the underlying assumptions that: authenticity is
good fun, and good for you, and that heralds will always want to be of
help to people.

Arval wrote:
                                                                     When
  Wulfgar Newcomer enters a tourney bearing some dreadfully modern thing
  painted on his shield, he is making an attempt at period heraldry, but
  TheHeralds will jump on him for it.  The heralds are the only formal
  Authenticity Police in the SCA.

Stuff and nonsense.  Without exception, every herald that I know, who
does commenting or has expended real effort to learn heraldry, knows
exactly what limitations lie upon TheHeralds.  We have no enforcement
authority whatsoever, and we know it.  At least, *I* know it, and the
heralds that I work with know it (or are very quickly told it).  I've
known a few people who will whine vehemently to other heralds about
how they *wish* they had enforcement authority, but that's another
kettle of fish.

The few times in the SCA where someone acted as a deputy of the
Authenticity Police, it was some ignorant boob who could cite neither
facts nor sources.  And it was awfully fun to ask for them, too.

	Tibor
--
Mark Schuldenfrei (schuldy@progress.com)
[I'm just showin' you my opinions: this ain't a gift]
From: uplink@cwis.unomaha.edu (Axel Rose)
Subject: Re: SCA Role playing game
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 09:44:10 GMT

GRS00045@CONRAD.APPSTATE.EDU (Neal Townley) writes:

>Unto the rialto, does Niall MacFarlane send greetings!

>Gee.. an sca role playing game!
>I suppose Heralds would be Clerics because of their fanaticism
>(I cast thee out oh foul devil of heraldic tackyness)

>and wizards would be Laurels
>(I dont know about you... but I think some of the stuff I've seen
>made by our A+S people are pritty damn magical to me...)

>and me.. I'm a bard.. always have been.. always will be...

	May I ask... WHY??? I always thought the SCA was one BIG roleplaying
game... at least, that's the way the Barony of Lonely Tower treats it!


--
uplink
End of Line.