HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Georgia - Land of Paradise for Progunners???
Date: 28 Jul 92 12:37:15 GMT
Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access.  The Mouth of the South.

C.T.Teo@massey.ac.nz (C.T. Teo) writes:

#Re: Georgia - Land of Paradise for Pro-gunners???

#Our local TV Frontline programme shown a few minutes clip on firearms ownership
#in the State of Georgia, USA. Beside showing the residents (young and old)
#carrying firearms in the open, it was said that the crime rates are
#comparatively low and that (listen to this) it is MANDATORY for household to
#possess firearm(s)!!! It this true???

Only in Kennesaw, Ga.  This Atlanta bedroom community is about 3 miles from my
house.  The mayor sponsored the non-binding ordinance in retalliation
to the Morton Grove, Il handgun ban.  Though the law is non-binding
and no penalties are attached, it did have its effect.  The burglary
count in the city went from 62 the previous year (average) to zero the 
year after the law.  It has dithered near zero ever since despite the 
massive growth (Cherokee county has become the fastest growth county in
the state) and despite being adjacent to Cobb county where violent crime
is significant - at least in some parts of town.

The crime rate outside the metro Atlanta area is practically non-existant.
Indeed it can be said that crime is practically non-existant anywhere 
MARTA (public transit) does not run.

Open carry is not legal but unless you're in the parking lot of a bank
in metro Atlanta, not many people will give you a second look.  I think
nothing of carrying my pistols in the open while going to or from
the range.  I've heard that will automatically call  out the SWAT team
in other parts of the country.

#GEORGIA here I come...........

Georgia is a pretty good state for firearms owners.  We have a non-
discretionary CCW law which means if you don't have a record, you must
be granted a CCW; we defeated the only waiting period ordinances 
passed in a couple of the metro counties; and by the skin of our teeth
and despite the efforts of the state NRA, we killed a trigger lock 
bill this year.  Our biggest problem now is Gov. Zell Miller who, as you
saw at the DNC, thinks he is a Kennedy-in-waiting.  He and some of the 
state NRA org officers got together and almost passed the trigger lock
and a waiting period law.  With the redistricting this year I think
we'll be in good shape.

I think the atmosphere in Tennessee is a bit better despite there not being
a nondiscretionary CCW permit but Georgia is not bad.  Any Southern 
State is pretty good for that matter.

John
-- 
John De Armond, WD4OQC               |Interested in high performance mobility?  
Performance Engineering Magazine (TM) |
Marietta, Ga                         |Interested in high tech and computers? 
jgd@dixie.com                        |Write me about PE Magazine
Need Usenet public Access in Atlanta?  Write Me for info on Dixie.com.
From: lvc@cbvox1.att.com (Lawrence V Cipriani)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Addresss for Cherokee, Inc.
Date: 29 Jul 92 11:52:14 GMT
Organization: Ideology Busters, Inc.

A long while ago someone asked for the address to Cherokee, Inc.
I found it in the current issue of Machine Gun News.

	Glaser/Cherokee, Inc.
	P.O. Box 8223
	Foster City, CA 94404
	415-345-7677 (voice)
	415-345-8217 (fax)
-- 
Larry Cipriani, att!cbvox1!lvc or lvc@cbvox1.att.com
"I just love the smell of gunpowder." -- Bugs Bunny
From: davidst@microsoft.com (David Steckler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: AVOIDING GETTING MISTAKENLY SHOT
Date: 30 Jul 92 20:10:11 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article <5234@transfer.stratus.com> tarl@lectroid.sw.stratus.com (Tarl Neustaedter) writes:
#
#
#Unless you buy it on the black market, you local cops will know about it
#and look until they find it. THey probably can't put you on the rack, but
#they can and will trash your place until they find it. Remember those cute 
#little flimsys you had to fill out when you bought your handgun? Well, the
#state police has (against the law) been accumulating these onto a computer
#database, producing effectively a per-owner firearms list in this state.
#-- 

Here in Washington state, guns bought through private sales (and gunshows)
aren't recorded in any way.
From: smrtstr!syspb@uu.psi.com (Paul)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Mosberg 500 shotgun barrels
Date: 31 Jul 92 12:57:50 GMT
Organization: SmartStar Corp. / Signal Technolgy Inc.

Does anyone know a good source for Mossberg model 500 shotgun barrels?
I'm looking for a 22-24 inch barrel with a modified or improved cyl choke.
A used one would due, even if it doesn't have a vented rib.  I have a 21
inch slug barrel with a cylinder bore, but I need a bit more choke than
that.  It puts out about a 4-5 ft pattern at 25yds.  My other barrel is
30in, and is way too long for fast targets, like quail.  I was hoping to 
find one for under $50, preferably less for a used one.  Thanks.
From: cash@convex.com (Peter Cash)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Hollowpoints illegal in N.J. ?
Date: 28 Jul 92 03:34:44 GMT
Organization: The Instrumentality

In article <1992Jul27.154046.10961@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> gmk@falstaff.MAE.CWRU.EDU (Geoff Kotzar) writes:
#In article <9207262135.AA01663@gtephx.com> forda@gtephx.UUCP (Andrew Ford @ AGCS, Phoenix, Arizona) writes:
...
##That's about right: a hollowpoint is designed to expand more on impact and
##make a wider wound channel (bigger hole).  It is more likely to kill the
##person hit and less likely to go clean through the person and hit someone
##else.

#The above statements run counter to the collective observations of trauma
#surgeons in this country. In 1973 when high-velocity (relatively speaking)
#hollow-point handguns rounds were hitting the street -no pun intended- the
...
#When surgeons experienced in treating gunshot injuries are asked to predict
#what kind of missile was used to produce a particular injury based on its
#appearance they cannot do it. Even estimating calibers used or magnum vs
#non-magnum is difficult if not impossible.

This is really something of a bombshell: if you're right (and if I'm
understanding you correctly), then it doesn't make much difference what
caliber handgun you choose, or whether you use military ball or the latest
super-duper-hollowpoint. The gun mags, the ammo companies, the gunmakers
and their advertisers won't like this at all. Can you say more about
this--particularly give a pointer to some references?

I've always felt that gun writers tend to blow the differences between
different types of handguns and ammunition out of proportion because that's
how they make their living--but almost _no_ difference? Wow. 
  

-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
             |      Die Welt ist alles, was Zerfall ist.     |
Peter Cash   |       (apologies to Ludwig Wittgenstein)      |cash@convex.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: cramer@optilink.com (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Neat baby name ...
Date: 22 Jul 92 02:58:10 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA


In article <16134.9207201957@fishn.chpc.org>, rboudrie@chpc.org (Rob Boudrie) writes:
# My IPSC practice partner and his wife had their first kid Sunday.
# 
# Its name is William Cooper <lastname_here#.
# 
# I don't think the mother knows where the middle name came from, 
# so I'll leave the last name off for now.
# 
# This is a true story - I never believed he would really use
# that name (though he had been talking about it for a while).
# 
# Rob Boudrie

I have a friend with a neat address: 1911 Cooper Drive.  (Now, if
only it were an apartment complex, and he was in building A, apartment
1...)

-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
"Well, maybe the Holocaust was right *for that culture*." -- a moral relativist
with whom I work.
From: browne@Apple.COM (Sean Browne)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Best defense: Machine gun or shotgun?
Date: 25 Jul 92 00:29:23 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA



Well, from my brief experience with machine guns,
(the Knob Creek show in April) I think I would
be much better defended with my mossberg 590.
I had a blast shooting various weapons (AK47,Thompson,
Sten,M16, and M60) but hitting the cans at 25yds or
the jugs at 50 yards proved pretty challenging. I did
best with the M16 in slow aimed bursts. I did manage
to wing a cooler with the M60 but god knows how many
rounds it took. Sooo comparing that experience to hitting
a double at the trap range with my 590, I don't have any
doubt what would be more effective. Now if I was in a 
room with someone with lethal intentions and an nice safe
backstop, give me a little MP5, Mac 10, or Uzi. Outside
at a distance, aimed semi-auto fire is much better. I 
believe the Deadly Effects video has a nice example of this.
-Sean.
From: jheath@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Jim Heath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Ricochets (was: Shooting in Dumps)
Date: 29 Jul 92 15:00:43 GMT
Organization: Center for Environmental and Regulatory Information Systems, Purdue University

#From article <1992Jul28.155845.7625@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, by dbetz@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Drew Betz):
# In article <9207280457.AA14473@hpfcso.HP.COM> post@hpfcso.fc.hp.com (David Post) writes:
# #My goodness!  What airport was that?  I accidently went through the
# #detectors at the Denver airport with several fired 9mm cases.  The guy first
# 
# I recently took a trip and I always take my keys out of my pockets
# (I seem to have a real pile of keys for some reason).  Anyhow, it
# turns out that I've got a 9mm JHP bullet keychain.  Its an inert
# 9mm round where the primer's been removed and a chain is attached
# so you can carry it on your keychain.  I completely forgot about it
# until I got to the security point, and then I figured I was going
# to have to explain.  But they ran it through the x-ray machine and
# didn't say anything.
#

My gunsmith has a similar (.45 acp) ;-{) and got hassled about it
in the Indianapolis airport a few years ago.  He wasn't getting
on a plane, but wanted to go into an area beyond the machine,
can't remember the name of the area though ;-{). 
-- 
"Land of song, said the warrior bard,           Jim Heath
Though all the world betrays thee.
One sword, at least, thy rights shall guard, (The Minstrel Boy)
One faithful harp will praise thee."         (Thomas Moore)
From: acw@sbmsg1.UUCP (Alvin White)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: EAA Witness .45
Date: 21 Jul 92 14:15:50 GMT
Organization: Southern Bell - MSG  Atlanta, Ga

In article <58975@mimsy.umd.edu> C08926RC@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu (Rob) writes:
#Ok, I've read three or four reviews of the EAA Witness .45 in the
#gun rags, and I am impressed.  However, knowing the gun rags rarely
#say anything bad, I'd like more opinions.
#
#Does anyone here have any experience with the EAA Witness?

Well, I have no experience with the EAA Witness in .45 but I do
have one in .40 S&W.  As I'm sure that you are aware, the .45
is a considerably larger framed gun than the .40 or the 9mm.
Enough of that. The Witness is a FINE pistol. I'm an old 1911
fan and didn't think I'd ever consider anything else.  I've
never had any malfunctions and I can shoot one hole groups (6 shots)
at 7 yards (hand held - no rest).  They are becoming a very popular
pistol in IPSC competition and there a great number of after market
products available.  I have a small hand, which is probably why I
like the 1911, and the .45 Witness is almost too large for me. If
it feels comfortable in your hand, BUY IT.

Alvin White
From: dbetz@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Drew Betz)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: grab-and-run
Date: 28 Jul 92 21:41:58 GMT
Organization: SigSauer Fan Club

In article <1C011E3C127F600A32@VXC.UNCWIL.EDU> PATE@VXC.UNCWIL.EDU (BILL PATE, ADMIN. SERVICES, PATE@VXC.UNCWIL.EDU) writes:
#I saw a news program recently about that problem. The commentator said the
#car rental agencies at the Miami airport had removed the identifing decals
#from their cars because their customers were being cased as 'out-of-towners' 
#and better hits. The accompanying video showed a grab-and-run in action. 

Yah, but I remembering reading somewhere (GunWeek?) that the clever
government types instead mandated that all rental plates start with
the letter "Y," and no other passenger vehicle plates (i.e., "See
that car with the 'Y' plate???  Lets go smash and grab it!!!"  "Cool
idea, Guido!!!").

Drew
--
drew betz : wj8k : dbetz@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu   
"Our campaign is the opposite of 'competence.'"
- Clinton aide Eli Segal, quoted in the 7/22/92 _Wall Street Journal_
From: cash@convex.com (Peter Cash)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Best defense: Machine gun or shotgun?
Date: 27 Jul 92 21:36:29 GMT
Organization: The Instrumentality

In article <9207262227.AA02241@gtephx.com> forda@gtephx.UUCP (Andrew Ford @ AGCS, Phoenix, Arizona) writes:
...
#The high-capacity auto would obviously be the weapon of choice.
#However, in being out and about during a riot one may encounter
#situations where weapons would be abused (ie: dropped, fallen
#upon, dunked in mud/water/dirt, etc): it seems to me that a 
#revolver will continue to be operational for longer than a 
#auto pistol given the same level of abuse and assuming that
#the barrel does not get blocked.  (Revolvers have fewer moving
#parts to get gummed up.)  

Obviously, you've never taken a revolver apart. If you do, you'll find
about a dozen small moving springs, levers, ratchets, and whatnot that make
up the "lockwork" of the gun. You might as well call it "clockwork"--it's
just about as delicate. You get some mud in there (or for that matter, a
nearly invisible piece of grit under the extractor star, or a number of
other vulnerable points), and it's all over now, baby blue. 

In fact, one of the reasons (besides fast reload) the military forces of
the world rely exclusively on autoloaders is that they are more rugged than
revolvers. A simple auto (like the Browning P-35) has _fewer_ moving parts
than a revolver, and the tolerances between the parts are coarser.
(Military autos are usually made with a sloppy slide-to-frame fit for
exactly this reason: getting some grit in the slide rails does not
necessarily prevent functioning.) In addition, it is _much_ easier to strip
clean an auto than a revolver. I can take my P-35 apart in seconds, and all
critical moving parts are lying on my table. (In fact, the reason you've
never seen the insides of a revolver is that it's a non-trivial task to
take one apart.)

A revolver is a fine thing, as long as you keep it clean in your desk
drawer or your holster. But if you're going to subject it to
(unintentional) mistreatment, a good autoloader is the thing to have. 
...
#I would limit it to two handguns because of weight considerations
#(but you make a good point about similar ammo -- maybe a DE would
#be a good idea -- carry two guns and one type of ammo): obviously,
#I'd be going out to get something and I would like to be able to 
#return home ASAP.

DE--Desert Eagle? Surely you jest! The DE is a fine toy, but not a combat
weapon. It's bulky, heavy, and jams if it's not kept meticulously clean. 
-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
             |      Die Welt ist alles, was Zerfall ist.     |
Peter Cash   |       (apologies to Ludwig Wittgenstein)      |cash@convex.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: Ken_Ziolkowski@transarc.com
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Powder Scale Works Now
Date: 21 Jul 92 14:15:53 GMT


 I posted this earlier:

###
###   1. My powder scale will not balance. It is a standard
###      model RCBS and no matter what I do, it will not
###      "zero". Any advice?


 And received some nice advice from Geoff Kotzar:

In the past my non-zero problem was due to the knife edges being damaged
and slightly rounded. If the problem is due to the knife edge-agate bearing
interface the problem could be dirt on the agate or worn or damaged knife
edges. This would show up as a repeatability failure. Displace the beam
from its rest position, if it does not return to the original postion then
I would look at the bearing-knife edge pairs. When you displace the beam
swing it to one side (up or down) several times to see where it stops, then
swing it to the other. If it catches to one side and tends to stop in the
same place you probably have dirt on the bearings. If it stops in different
places each time my vote would go to the knife edges being worn/damaged. They
can be dressed if you are careful and if you have a set of calibration weights
to verify that you did a sufficiently good job.


  There was some rust on the edges of the bearing (the scale had been
stored for ~2-1/2 years). A qucik cleaning and I had the scale "zeroing"
in no time.

  THANKS to all of the people who responded, esp. Geoff.

Ken
From: callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: $5000 Shopping Spree
Date: 31 Jul 92 12:57:58 GMT
Organization: Engineering Computer Network, University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK, USA

In article <22565@hacgate.SCG.HAC.COM> burens@4ccvw16.scg.hac.com (Mark Burens) writes:
#In article <9207211127.AA12411@mimsy.cs.UMD.EDU> C08926RC@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu (Rob) writes:
##If you had $5000 to spend on firearms and/or accessories, what would
##you buy?
#
#If I were given 5 grand to buy guns and goodie I'ld get a Berretta 92F,
#a Winchester 1300 12-gauge, a Colt 2000, another S&W 686, a Browning BDM,
#a Glock 17, a Fort Knox safe, and as much ammo with the change.

Hmmm...aw hell. Here's my two bits.. ;-)

First, I'd make my SIG collection more complete: 
	P220, P225, P228, and a P229 to complement my P226 
	Desert Eagle and Smith&Wesson revolver in .44Magnum
	Browning Hi-Power
	Browning Sweet Sixteen (Belgian, of course :-)
and as much ammo and accessories as the change will buy.

(BTW--anybody know where I might find a Belgian Browning Sweet Sixteen?
That was the first firearm I ever shot--the time I learned to hold the 
stock against my shoulder... :-) That was one sweet shotgun! (For those
that don't know, the Browning Sweet Sixteen is a 16ga. autoloader. Excuse
me; not just _a_ 16ga. autoloader--_*THE*_ 16ga. autoloader. IMHO, it's
the standard against which all other shotguns should be measured.)

				James

James P. Callison       Microcomputer Coordinator        OU Law Library 
Callison@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu   /\        Callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor
	constellation!biglaw!callison@mailhost.ecn.uoknor.edu
DISCLAIMER: I'm not an engineer, but I play one at work...
	I hit and they boo me, I spit and they sue me,
	I don't understand why they do this to me!
		--Charles Barkley, Nike commercial
From: J.M.Spencer@newcastle.ac.uk (Jonathan Spencer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: cost of semi-auto .22LR rifles?
Date: 22 Jul 92 20:33:47 GMT

As a followup to our quest for a left-handed bolt action .22LR, we havefound
that Anschutz make one called the Classic which is a true lefthander.
Unfortunately, it costs an arm and a leg at around L320(approx US$560) which
is outrageous even for our inflated prices.So we're having to look for a
self-loading rifle (semi-auto) that canbe fired left-handed.  This very much
depends on where the empties arethrown, and I guess that varies from one
rifle to another even withina given make/model?  (Coments invited.)And again
we have the problem that few dealers have got anything instock with which we
can play.  The Anschutz self-loading rifle has afunny balance to it - at
least, it does if you handle one of the Brnobolt actions (lovely rifles)
first.  It feels like the Brno does oncethe sound moderator is fitted, front
end heavy.  But we also looked ata Ruger self-loading rifle (can't remember
the model number, DSMR?,Ranch rifle?, built like a minature Mini-14) feels
quite reasonable,and the it looks suitable for the job - rabbit shooting.
We werequoted L205 for this rifle, but what does it cost in the
States?Anyone know?  Any other makes/models of self loading .22LRs
torecommend?  BTW, he's bought a Leupold 4x Compact RF scope to go on
therifle when he finally gets it (sensible man).
From: rpalmer@Think.COM (Ralph Palmer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: STEN kit ads, where did they go?
Date: 29 Jul 92 15:00:34 GMT
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA

I just picked up a copy of GUN NEWS for the first time in a 
couple of months and noticed the ads for the sten kits were
missing.  The ad was always in the same place and read something
like "If you paid more that  $19.95 for you sten kit you paid too 
much!"  I remember reading that The Shotgun News was under some
pressure to remove these ads.

Well, keeping in the tradition of wanting something as soon as
someone tells me I can't have it, I was wondering if anybody had
the address of places that sell sten kits?  Of course this is *just*
for informational reasons only.  Please post or send mail. 

					Ralph Palmer
From: forda@gtephx.UUCP (Andrew Ford @ AGCS, Phoenix, Arizona)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: H.R. 2922
Date: 30 Jul 92 14:37:46 GMT
Organization: gte


In article <1992Jul25.223403.27105@cbnews.cb.att.com>, lvc@cbvox1.att.com (Lawrence V Cipriani) writes:
# My copy of H.R. 2922 finally arrived.  This bill would impose a tax
# of $0.75 per pound on primary lead, and $0.37 per pound on secondary
# lead.  The tax would be imposed for 10 years.  The money collected
# would go into a "trust fund" to pay for removal of lead based paint
# from assorted public places, inspections of said places, etc.
# 
# The tax on 1000 rounds of 200 grain bullets would be nearly $21.50
# for primary lead and nearly $10.75 on secondary lead.  Stock up now.

How does one tell if bullets have primary or secondary lead?
-- 
"25 States allow anyone to buy a gun, strap it on, and walk down the street with
no permit of any kind: some say it's crazy.  However, 4 out of 5 US murders are 
committed in the other half of the country: so who is crazy?"   -  Andrew Ford
gtephx!forda@enuucp.eas.asu.edu  OR  !uunet!samsung!romed!enuucp!gtephx!forda
From: forda@gtephx.UUCP (Andrew Ford @ AGCS, Phoenix, Arizona)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Ricochets
Date: 27 Jul 92 13:53:00 GMT
Organization: gte

In article <1992Jul22.235146.3324@athena.mit.edu>, sybok@athena.mit.edu (The Rifleman) writes:
# #    BTW, since I posted the article about the BB hit in the nasal opening, I
# # neglected to say that the BB is still there. The doctor that I went to see
# # also thought that surgery was also not needed. I don't have any "trouble"
# # with it, but a few years ago I went to England and it set off the metal
# # detector in BOTH airports. Try and explain THAT to their security! I must
# # admit that the security in England were MUCH more relaxed than here. Here,
# # weapons were drawn and I was carted away. Not too cool.
# 
# When Reagan visited my high school, David H. Hickman in Columbia, MO, in
# 1986, I walked through the detector with a full ring of keys, and it
# didn't go off.  I guess the detectors used in airports are set to lower
# threshold?  (I've never been on a plane.)

(I may be wrong here, but I'm sure someone will correct me if I am.)

Most keys are made of aluminum or an alloy.  These materials would not
do the shooter's hand justice if they were used in a gun.

I believe the walk-through detectors use magnetic fields: metals which
can be magnatized will be detected whereas aluminums will not.  (Note
that keyrings are usually made of steel and large ones may set off the
detector.)








-- 
"25 States allow anyone to buy a gun, strap it on, and walk down the street with
no permit of any kind: some say it's crazy.  However, 4 out of 5 US murders are 
committed in the other half of the country: so who is crazy?"   -  Andrew Ford
gtephx!forda@enuucp.eas.asu.edu  OR  !uunet!samsung!romed!enuucp!gtephx!forda