HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: tin flame
Organization: Elitist Usenet Administrators, Turkey Division
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 07:06:52 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.121539.12975@news.csuohio.edu> cowboy@trans.csuohio.edu (Joe Rosenfeld) writes:

>Are you sure you are not griping because you did a LOUSY job as a
>sysadmin?

Since it doesn't seem to me that I did, yes.  In any case:

>This is not Iain's fault--you just need to think these things
>out FIRST before making yourself look so bad publicly for all to see and
>remark on.

Even if I had not tried to install tin 1.18, I would be griping.  Not
yet have I heard a single justification from the yes-men for the
arbitrary dancing about of keybindings.  Why change 't' to 'T' *at*
*all*, let alone in the middle of a patch whose purpose is presumably
simply to fix bugs?

>I mean, you CAN eliminate the mini-menu, an excellent feature for those
>users you do not adequately prepare, then seek to blame the programmer
>for!  How typical.  Read and examine the program, its documentation, etc.,
>like you should.  

As I did.  In the meantime, I intend to fix the null personal name bug
when I get a moment after my final exams and send diffs to Iain in
case someone else has not yet fixed this bug.  In the meantime I will
have to maintain this, and probably other bugs, myself, since I cannot
justify confusing my users by upgrading to future patchlevels of tin.

As to whether I do not adequately prepare my users, I will be more
than happy to send you PostScript copies of the introductory
documentation on Unix, Emacs, and tin that we have gone to great
lengths to make available here.  That is, if you're interested.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / 
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /               Rocks say goodbye.
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) / 
Newsgroups: news.software.readers
From: erodrigu@dcc.uchile.cl (Eduardo Rodriguez)
Subject: Re: rn problem
Originator: erodrigu@tolten
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 15:01:58 GMT
Organization: Universidad de Chile, Depto. de Ciencias de la Computacion


In article <1992Dec8.152429.8550@trentu.ca>, ccksb@trentu.ca (Ken Brown) writes:
> 
> We've had rn 4.4 running for some time.  Now that I'm re-organizing our
> sources area I've run into a problem.  I moved the rn source dir from
> /usr/scs/src/news (where it was originally built) to /usr/scs/src/News. 
> The original permissions on .../news were rx for all.  Now that .../news 
> does not exist and .../News can only be accessed by root the following
> error occurs when rn is run for the first time (in this case the user is 
> csfac);
> 
>  % rn 
> 
>  Trying to set up a .newsrc file--running newsetup...
> 
>   Creating /usr/users/cs/csfac/.newsrc to be used by news programs.
>   sh: /usr/scs/src/news/rn.4.4/filexp: cannot execute
> 
> How can I assure that rn will reference /usr/local/lib/news/rn/flexp and
> not flexp in my source area?
> 

When ruuning Configure from the sources of rn, it will ask you:

 Rn has a number of auxiliary programs that need not be visible to the
 whole world.  Where do you want to put these private executables?

There you must put: /usr/local/lib/news/

edo...

       HOW ARE YOU?                         .                           .
 ////                        muerto  ```\  .     Eduardo Rodriguez     .
 c-OO  Le gustaria resucitar?        OO-c   .  erodrigu@dcc.uchile.cl   .
    \             no, gracias. Aqui  /     . Dpto Cs de la Computacion .
   -                  se esta mucho   -     .   Universidad de Chile    .
                     mejor que alla        .                           .
From: tedc@cs.ubc.ca (Ted Chen)
Newsgroups: news.software.readers
Subject: sorting newsgroups in RN
Date: 16 Dec 1992 16:50:22 -0800
Organization: Computer Science, University of B.C., Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: pacific.cs.ubc.ca

I use RN to read news and would like to find a way to automatically sort
the groups in alphabetical order.  Please email to

tedc@ee.ubc.ca


Thanks very much.

Newsgroups: news.software.readers
From: norman@netsys.com (Norman Gillaspie)
Subject:  Am looking for Japanese NewsReader
Organization: Netsys Inc.
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 03:53:11 GMT

I am able to get the what appears to be the complete set
of Japanese news groups.I am looking for a news reader
for a Sun computer system. Where can I FTP a reader?

	Regards Norman Gillaspie 415-424-0384

	norman@pagesat.com



=============================================================================
	Norman Gillaspie         norman.pagesat.com
	(v) 415-424-0380 (fax) 415-424-0405       PageSat Inc.
	For information regarding Pagesat's Satellite delivered usenet news 
  	mail to "pagesat@pagesat.com" or call: 415-424-0380 (ask for marketing)
    	.. Delivering 45+ megabytes of Usenet news each day, at 9600 bps .. 
==============================================================================


Newsgroups: news.software.readers
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: tin flame
Organization: Elitist Usenet Administrators, Turkey Division
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 01:14:53 GMT

In article <1gi77cINN6k@hpfcbig.sde.hp.com> jgg@fc.sde.hp.com writes:

>It certainly was rude of him to give advance notice of
>only several months that the changes to which you refer were coming.  In
>the future, if he doesn't give you a personal phone call to advise you
>of them, I'd have him shot.

This has nothing whatsoever to do with my complaint.  If nothing else,
would a brief *summary* of user-visible changes be too much to ask?
How about clearly demarcating changes such as 't' <-> 'T'?  This was
listed in the CHANGES file as a "bug," and I will *not* back down on
that issue.  It was not a bug, but simply behavior that Iain found
personally undesirable.

If he is going to maintain the illusion of tin being a
publicly-available package, you'd think that he would take a little
more consideration for the public's desire for tin enhancements.

>Having had numerous exchanges with Iain and being convinced of his
>desire to please the users of Tin, your posting comes off to me as just
>so much hot air.

Having had numerous exchanges with Iain, I am convinced of his
reluctance to deal with aspects of tin that users actually find
problematic while he chooses instead to concentrate on relatively
unnecessary features such as mail support.

>That said, let me summarize how your posting comes
>across to me:
>
>"... I got screwed by not reading the release notes about a change
>that he had publicized for months,

That's not true, but thanks for trying anyway.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / 
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /               Rocks say goodbye.
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /
From: ted@isgtec.com (Ted Richards)
Newsgroups: news.software.readers
Subject: Re: Threaded News Readers
Date: 18 Dec 92 15:56:00 GMT
Organization: ISG Technologies Inc. Mississauga Ont. Canada
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]

Alan Thew (qq11@liverpool.ac.uk) wrote:
: Christopher Davis (ckd@eff.org) wrote:
: : JC> == John Chandler [Contractor] <johnch@pongo.sun.com>

: :  JC> Why does it take so long to thread a few hundred articles?  No one
: :  JC> needs to drink that much coffee!  Why can trn do it so much faster?
: :  JC> Does anyone understand the two algorithms well enough to comment on
: :  JC> why one is so much faster than the other and what it would take to
: :  JC> improve gnus' performance?

: : The main reason trn is faster is because it does it when you're not
: : looking (via mthreads).

: tin gets good performance in threading if you use tind (as I'm doing now).
: otherwise performance on a loaded machine using NNTP can be slooowwww...

tin also gets good performance without tind if you use the -U option.
It starts up a second copy of tin that does the indexing in the
background while you're reading the articles it has already indexed.

--
Ted Richards            ted@isgtec.com             [...!uunet.ca!isgtec!ted]
ISG Technologies Inc.   6509 Airport Rd., Mississauga  Ont.  Canada   L4V 1S7
Newsgroups: news.software.readers,news.software.nntp
From: Iain.Lea@anl433.uucp
Subject: Re: Getting newsgroup descriptions via NNTP (was Re: .newsrc editors, FAQ wanted)
Followup-To: news.software.readers,news.software.nntp
Organization: TIN Support
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 BETA PL9]
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 18:43:47 GMT

Bill Fenner (fenner@postscript.cs.psu.edu) wrote:
:
: The ANU/NEWS NNTP server has "XGTITLE [group]" - return the description from
: the "newsgroups" file for the current group, or the specified group.  If
: anyone is going to implement this for any other NNTP platforms, it might be
: a good idea to use XGTITLE for compatibility with existing implementations.

The NNTP 1.5.11 server already supports this with the LIST NEWSGROUPS command.

Iain

--
NAMES  Iain Lea    Iain.Lea%anl433.uucp@Germany.EU.net
SNAIL  Siemens AG, ANL A433SZ, Gruendlacher Str. 248, 8510 Fuerth, Germany.
PHONE  +49-911-3089-407 (work) +49-911-331963 (home) +49-911-3089-290 (FAX)
From: mjo@iao.ford.com (Mike O'Connor)
Newsgroups: news.software.readers
Subject: Re: tin flame
Date: 15 Dec 92 15:59:04 GMT
Reply-To: "Mike O'Connor" <mjo@fmsrl7.srl.ford.com>
Followup-To: poster
Organization: Not an official spokesperson for Ford Motor Company
NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost

In article <BzAtpq.Bws@unix.amherst.edu> twpierce@unix.amherst.edu
(Tim Pierce) writes:

:Iain is under no sort of legal obligation to pay any attention to the
:outside world, but then he should drop the pretense of tin being a
:publicly-available product.  If I were to release a piece of software

Anyone that offers source to his/her product is certainly making it
"publically available".  I agree with you that I think Iain's key
tweaks are annoying, and I am sticking with tin 1.16 pending a new
release 'cause the users are happy at this point.

:but not intend to pay more than passing attention to what people
:wanted from it, I would make the disclaimers about software support
:many and loud.

I think Iain's been doing a good job with addressing bugs and
implementing features as best he can.  I suspect Iain has a "real job"
to which tin is a secondary endeavor.  If you want to gripe about the
key bindings, send Iain a patch which allows people to bind their own
keys on a user and systemic level.

						...Mike

-- 
 Michael J. O'Connor           |  Internet:  mjo@fmsrl7.srl.ford.com
 Ford Motor Company, OPEO      |  UUCP:      ...!{backbone}!fmsrl7!mjo
 20000 Rotunda, Bldg. 1-3001   |  Phone:     +1 (313) 248-1260
 Dearborn, MI  48121           |  Fax:       +1 (313) 323-6277
From: mjo@iao.ford.com (Mike O'Connor)
Newsgroups: news.software.readers
Subject: Re: tin flame
Date: 13 Dec 1992 15:22:34 GMT
Organization: Not an official spokesperson for Ford Motor Company
Reply-To: "Mike O'Connor" <mjo@fmsrl7.srl.ford.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ope001.iao.ford.com

In article <1992Dec13.080831.15078@netcom.com> cliftonr@netcom.com
(Pope Clifton) writes:

:  Hmmmm.  It would seem to me that it shouldn't be that hard to make the
:key-to-function mappings come out of some global init file, in which case
:sysops could decide for themselves whether they wanted to change the key
:mappings or leave them like the previous version.  I know I've done that in
:some programs; it adds very little code.  One could even provide for an
:individual user init file to override the standard key mappings, ala mush.
:
:  Would you be interested in jointly suggesting this for version 1.2?

I believe Iain's stated that this functionality would be present in a
new revision of tin.  

						...Mike

-- 
 Michael J. O'Connor           |  Internet:  mjo@fmsrl7.srl.ford.com
 Ford Motor Company, OPEO      |  UUCP:      ...!{backbone}!fmsrl7!mjo
 20000 Rotunda, Bldg. 1-3001   |  Phone:     +1 (313) 248-1260
 Dearborn, MI  48121           |  Fax:       +1 (313) 323-6277
Newsgroups: news.software.readers
From: cannell@ed8200.ped.pto.ford.com (Larry Cannell)
Subject: tin posts
Organization: Ford Motor Co., Powertrain Electronics
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 16:40:28 GMT

Is there a way to configure tin to confirm that you really want to
post an article?  I sometimes accidentally hit a 'w' when I really
want to hit a 'q' and have to wait until it asks the final question
before quitting out (that's after going into the editor).

Otherwise, I really like tin.  Keep up the good work.

--
Larry Cannell (cannell@ed8200.ped.pto.ford.com)
Powertrain Electronics
Ford Motor Company
Xref: sparky news.software.readers:2491 news.software.nn:1661 news.software.b:3551
From: kenh@leps5.phys.psu.edu (Ken Hornstein)
Newsgroups: news.software.readers,news.software.nn,news.software.b
Subject: Re: trn/nn compile w/ inn?
Keywords: inn nntp trn nn
Date: 17 Dec 92 03:03:57 GMT
Organization: Penn State, Laboratory for Elementary Particle Science

In article <1gol6iINNlh2@leela.CS.ORST.EDU> langfod@atlantis.CS.ORST.EDU (David Langford) writes:
>Look at $inn/nnrpd/nnrpd.h 
>
>In are are the #DEFINES that turn on the included (but unsupported)
>XTHREADS extensions.
>This is great the INN side supports it, but I just cant figure out an easy way
>to get the client TRN to compile with the INN libs. 
>I guess I am just going to have to  write the config.h.SH files by hand.

Errr, I guess I wasn't clear ... I didn't have any problems with the nnrpd
stuff, I had the same problem you did .... there are some routines that the
patches in $trn/nntp create that aren't in the INN libs, and the patches don't
work on the INN libs (like I said, I didn't spend much time on this).

--Ken
Xref: sparky news.software.readers:2507 alt.sources.d:1574 comp.sources.d:1484
From: ted@isgtec.com (Ted Richards)
Newsgroups: news.software.readers,alt.sources.d,comp.sources.d
Subject: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Tin v1.1 PL8 newsreader (PATCH) posted to alt.sources
Date: 17 Dec 92 20:53:34 GMT
Organization: ISG Technologies Inc. Mississauga Ont. Canada
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]

Alex Laney (alex@animal.Bell.CA) wrote:
: : >>Iain Lea (Iain.Lea%anl433.uucp@Germany.EU.net) wrote:
: : >>> I have posted TIN v1.1 PL8 to alt.sources in a 6 part PATCH. 

: I have applied this patch, and it appears to work ok on my system
: (SunOS 4.1.1, Sparc2). BUT, (and this is true of the last two versions),
: I have to do the final linking with 'cc', not 'ld.' Do others of this config.
: find this to be true?

Yes.

: Anyway, to fix this, I add LD=$(CC) to the make bsd line. From here, I can't
: email Iain. If you're listening Iain, is it possible to put this in?
: Otherwise it just core dumps trying to load the 'C' shared library. It
: should be okay on all bsd-derived systems.

It's already there on line 10 of the Makefile.  I think I had a problem
in PL7 like this, which turned out to be because I had modified the
Makefile, and the patch failed at that point, leaving LD set to ld for
some reason.

--
Ted Richards            ted@isgtec.com             [...!uunet.ca!isgtec!ted]
ISG Technologies Inc.   6509 Airport Rd., Mississauga  Ont.  Canada   L4V 1S7
Xref: sparky news.software.readers:2459 gnu.emacs.gnus:1401
From: cedman@princeton.edu (Carl Edman)
Newsgroups: news.software.readers,gnu.emacs.gnus
Subject: Re: Threaded News Readers
Date: 15 Dec 92 00:43:25 GMT
	<CKD.92Dec11165349@loiosh.eff.org>
	<1992Dec14.213637.20495@bcars6a8.bnr.ca>
Organization: Princeton University
To: jsparkes@bcars68a.bnr.ca (Jeff Sparkes)
Originator: news@nimaster

In article <1992Dec14.213637.20495@bcars6a8.bnr.ca> jsparkes@bcars68a.bnr.ca (Jeff Sparkes) writes:
   In article <CKD.92Dec11165349@loiosh.eff.org> ckd@eff.org (Christopher Davis) writes:
   >JC> == John Chandler [Contractor] <johnch@pongo.sun.com>
   >
   > JC> Why does it take so long to thread a few hundred articles?  No one
   > JC> needs to drink that much coffee!  Why can trn do it so much faster?
   > JC> Does anyone understand the two algorithms well enough to comment on
   > JC> why one is so much faster than the other and what it would take to
   > JC> improve gnus' performance?
   >
   >The main reason trn is faster is because it does it when you're not
   >looking (via mthreads).
   >
   >If someone (probably with more elisp than I :) were to add support for
   >the "nov" database to GNUS, it would speed up threading quite a bit.
   >(Heck, even adding XHDR would help.)

   actually, using XHDR doesn't help much.  I have done it, and the speedup was
   in the 10-15% range.  The bottleneck is the speed at which the server can
   retrieve all the articles.

Care to post those XHDR patches ? For a growing number of people who
read news via NNTP over SLIP (or other low-speed IP implementations),
actual network speed becomes the dominant factor in performance and
here XHDR can really help a lot.

        Carl Edman
Newsgroups: news.software.readers
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: Choosing a newsreader
Organization: Elitist Usenet Administrators, Turkey Division
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 03:58:15 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.013110.22580@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu> peta@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu (Peter Whaite) writes:

>Trn (well it's probably rn) seems well
>optimized at low baud rates.  The default tin configuration is abysmal in this
>respect and IMHO unusable.  I must admit though I haven't tried turning on the
>"slow_speed_terminal" variable.  Why isn't that done automatically?

Probably because Iain estimates -- correctly, IMHO -- that the vast
majority of users will be using tin at a higher baud rate than 2400.
I suspect that besides most installations having a fair number of 9600
baud dedicated terminals to their systems, the falling price of 9600
baud modems has made the high baud rate setting a reasonable default.

The fact that it even offers two settings is itself laudable.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / 
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /               Rocks say goodbye.
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) / 
Newsgroups: news.software.readers
From: cliftonr@netcom.com (Pope Clifton)
Subject: Re: Choosing a newsreader
Organization: t.b, t.p.d, & a.d
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 23:47:14 GMT

Adam Shostack (adam@endor.uucp) wrote:
: I'm wondering what newsreader folks would reccommend as easy to learn
: and use?  (Threading would be a great addition, but not at the cost of
: lots of ease of use.)

Adam: I tried to reply to you via mail, but it barfed.  You might want
to check if you can get your news posting system to put in a Reply-To:
line in the header, as your Sender: line appears to be invalid to the
mailer.
From: MAILER-DAEMON@Pa.dec.com (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown
554 <adam@endor.uucp>... 550 Host unknown (No such domain (authoritative answer
   <adam@endor.uucp>

Here's the text of what I wrote.

My experience, after using the VMS ANUNEWS program, and trying out
a number of different UNIX newsreaders, from the original readnews and
rn to vnews, nn, and tin, is that tin is far and away the easiest newsreader
to learn and use.  If they use elm, they should have no problems with
tin.  

nn certainly has devotees, but they seem to spend far too much time
configuring it to make it friendly enough.  tin seems to come up with
most defaults reasonably set, and has an options menu to customize most
of the rest, and well-organized help screens.

The one caveat on accepting my advice is that I have not tried trn.  If
you can get someone who's tried both tin and trn, they could give you a
comparison of the two.  I've gathered from discussions, though, that the
trn interface is more complex.

For reference, I'm a software engineer, but not much of a UNIX hacker; 
DOS and microprocessors, primarily.

  -- Clifton
--
cliftonr@netcom.com     Home: +1 808 521 9073  Work: +1 808 625 3234
Clifton Royston, Pope of the Church of the Subgenius in Paradise
"Have a revelation, the first one's free/Soon to be addicted to eternity" - HMR
Newsgroups: news.software.readers
From: dxbabu@dal.mobil.com (D. Babu [Dorai])
Subject: Question on XRN 6.17 (Motif) -  setup
Keywords: xrn, motif
Organization: Mobil Research and Development
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 14:49:07 GMT

I am using xrn Version 6.17 (with Motif) and I have some problem in the
set up.

When I click on the ALL GROUPS button, nothing comes up - I cannot see the list of newsgroups.
But if I go and pull the 'sash'  manually, then i can see all the newsgroups. Which parameter 
is preventing this.  I guess I have to include/modify a parameter in XRnMotif but I don't
know which one to modify. 

This was working in xrn 6.15.
From: au141@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Amber M. Spillers)
Newsgroups: news.software.readers
Subject: looking for newsreader software
Date: 11 Dec 1992 18:56:07 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: au141@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Amber M. Spillers)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


   I have recently installed a 386BSD system and I am trying to get a
few newsreaders for it up.  NN crases horribly so until I get down and
dirty with debugging that will not do, RN works fine and I plan to go
and get the emacs based newsreader soon. 
   my question is: where can I find some more news readers like TRN?  I
did not find them on any of the FTP sights I frequent but I did find NN
and RN there.

  reply via E-mail if possible, I lost my feed but I shoudl have it back
and some undetermined time.


-- 
"Stay Sane Inside Insanity" -- The Rocky Horror Picture Show
sysop of the Rocky Horror Picture Show BBS 1-618-529-5999 24Hrs
USR Dual Standard ** programming support ** NON-Etherealized

Newsgroups: news.software.readers
From: doug@cc.ysu.edu (Doug Sewell)
Subject: Re: tin flame
Organization: Bush in 92 ? NOT!
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 14:39:50 GMT

twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:
: Earlier this evening I compiled and installed tin 1.1 PL8, having gone
: through the CHANGES document and determined to my satisfaction that
: the greatest difference between it and PL7 was the elm-style
: "mini-menu."  No sooner had I installed it, however, than I started
: receiving complaints from my users about key settings changing,
: specifically "t" and "T".

Sigh.  I *like* tin.  But....

I guess I stick with 1.1pl4 a while, none of the keys have been switched,
no-one needs to rebuild their index-files, etc.

Yes, I know that indexing is faster and they're smaller in 1.1pl6.

Yes, I know that newer versions can, or will, use the NOV index, and the
patches will be provided for INN.

No, neither I nor my users (many of which aren't computer-literate) are
enthusiastic about the keyboard mapping changes.

No, I'm not inclined to build patches to undo Iain's handiwork that I have 
to support on three platforms and at least six hosts here.

Yes, I think the idea of a remappable keyboard is acceptable.  I doubt I'll
see it, and I think I'd wait for the second iteration of it to get the bugs
out.

Tin's stability seems to fluctuate... some patch-versions are very stable,
install just fine on all of our systems, etc.  Others either fail to work
right on one or more hosts, or other serious bugs pop up.
: 
: I've decided that here I will not install future patches to tin unless
: they take the package to a new version number, such as 2.0 (and
: perhaps not even then) or fix major problems that people are
: experiencing.  The changes are simply too erratic and unpredictable to
: loose on my users every few weeks without warning.

Same here.
--
Doug Sewell, Tech Support, Computer Center, Youngstown State University
doug@cc.ysu.edu	   doug@ysub.bitnet	<internet>!cc.ysu.edu!doug

cat core | uuencode bunny.dropping | mail jp@tygra.michigan.com