From: press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson)
Subject: Re: Perfect Prophets?
Organization: AT&T
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 04:10:02 GMT
Summary: ot and nt dispensations
Keywords: unscientific, false prophecies, misuse of rhetoric


In a previous article you wrote concerning  Jeremiah 28:9

[[This test also seems pretty pat, if someone shows great wonders and then
[tells you to worship a God that seems different from the God you have been
[following traditionally, then the fellow is a false prophet. There is a
[problem with this test too. Suppose you are Jewish, no matter how wonderous
[the signs and prophecies of Jesus Christ, you are being asked to follow
[after a different God. As much as fundamentalists would like to ignore the
[problem, the trinity is incompatible with the monothiestic God of the Jews.

There is still as much debate about God as trinity as existed then,
but let's set that aside for now.*
The Jews had a problem with Jesus claiming to forgive sins and claiming
his eternal nature with Yahweh, true, but they also had an expectation for
a deliverer, a lion of Judah, a successor to the throne of king David who
would deliver them once and for all from their enemies. Jesus made that
claim but disappointed many when he didn't take the sword and lead the
charge. 
Also, Jesus made clear in a few accounts the keepers of the faith
should have known he was Him and rebuked them. The key to my point
is the expectation.

[Just as Mormons are accused by the fundamentalists of worshipping a
[different God than the orthodox Christians, so the Jews will accuse the
[Christians of worshipping a different God then the one worshiped by Abraham,
[Issac, and Jacob.  By these standards Jesus Christ and the Christians also
[fail this test of prophecy.

Ok. By the words of Jesus(if the words are genuine)the Jews were being
misled and not taught correctly about him from the scriptures by the
priests and scribes. Also, the priests had lost sight of Yahweh's goals
for them several times because of the captivities. But my point here is
their failure according to Jesus in recognizing who he was(I understand
that this was later said to be necessary in order to allow the Gentiles
to be grafted in until the time of the end).
Now with Joseph we have no such expectation. It is clear enough that Jesus
would be the high priest for all believers until the end. There was no
expectation of a prophet either because of each believer being a priest
unto themselves with Him as high priest(unlike the expectation of the
Jews, again). Joseph claims a restoration of a lost message. We have no
evidence at all about this lost message other then some secret knowledge
that only the 1st century apostles claimed. Then he changes the nature of
god for not only the christians, but the jews as well. So Joseph goes a
step further beyond the christians with no evidence that he is correct.
Joseph introduces a book that cannot be verified, it was taken up. We
have no way to track his claims except his word alone, and a few who
believed him.
Under these conditions, Joseph becomes very suspect.

Let me summarize: in the ot we have many references to a king coming
to liberate(which would include wiping away the tears, writing the law
on their hearts, crushing the serpent). This did happen(according to
Jesus)but not what the jews(or hebrews)wanted.
In the nt we have a saviour, a lion of Judah, a high priest of the
order of melchezedak(sp), we are not spoken to by prophets as under hte
law, we are all priests under him, and he writes his laws on our hearts.


barry--

*the Lord your god is one: this is still being debated. There
are hints to him being split in nature in the ot. but never
as having a body of flesh, so that idea came from nowhere, not
even a hint.

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