From: ccav38@ccsun.strath.ac.uk ("I.Ballouz")
Subject: Re: Immersive Environments and Architecture
Organization: University of Strathclyde
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 13:39:35 GMT

In article <1992Oct15.144248.3880@ncsu.edu> rwzobel@unity.ncsu.edu (Rick Zobel) writes:
>This is a compilation of several postings and messages from:
>
>ccav38@ccsun.strath.ac.uk ("I.Ballouz"), 
>thomat@vccsouth17.its.rpi.edu (Todd Michael Thomas) and
>David Fung <89U5162@csdvax.csd.unsw.edu.au>
>
>(T.Thomas)
>>In the extended demo, some
>>classes actually got to design in VR (in combination with Auto Cad) 
>>and present this to the school, as well as the whole school of 
>>architecture got to tour some VR models to see how it works 
>>(VR) and how the experience is.
>
>Was it interactive design INSIDE an immersive environment, or 
>did you create the models in a screen based editor and then
>put on the equipment to look at it? If it was the former, what
>software company was it that did the demo? What were the
>creation tools like?

The real question is how on earth we can say that VR can be used for design
when the model is created with Autocad or a similar packages, regardless to
where it is created in or out the VR application?

There is a process of thinking in design and it is severely limiting to use
rigid methods of modelling no matter where it is done.

>
>(T.Thomas)
>>The equipment is not hand fabricated, it consists of off the 
>>shelf technology and parts.  Advances in the VR field will 
>>surely improve the tech and equipment but there does exist 
>>VR equipment usable at the small level today.
>
>Yes, this is a very important point for the field of architecture.
>For the major points that need consideration (Scale, movement,
>complexity/abstraction, design tools, design methods, spatial
>experience, information systems, design agents/assistants, and
>hundreds more) you don't need a multi-million dollar system for
>faster, more poly's/sec., higher resolution immersive systems.
>As architects, we live with abstraction as a way of life. For
>the short term perhaps, creativity and thoughtful insight is
>more important.
>
Yes abstraction is essential during many stages in design but when it
comes to evaluating the design, we need some elaborate images.
I'm not saying that we should have photorealistic quality in VR's applications
but some degree of elaborate images are required.
When it comes to this and when you want to walk through, around...you really
need a powerful machines and these are still expensive for small firms.

>(I.Ballouz)
>>However, I think that the only possible way for developing 
>>these technologies is to spread their use in the field of 
>>architecture and enhance the systems as the time passes.
>>This is because we don't know much about design and we don't 
>>know much about our own needs. We can't make a definitive 
>>path beforehand, we need some time to experience with these 
>>systems to develop them.
>
>I will grant you that we don't know much about how architects in
>general design, however, we know infinitely more than 
>programmers and businessmen about design and the design process.
>I am not advocating that we teach computers how to design, or
>try to instill in them the processes of design. I am looking
>toward the use of immersive environments as a MEDIUM for design.
>We know how to use pencils, watercolors, pens, markers, paint, clay,
>cardboard, paper, charcoal, wire, wood, plastics, and thousands
>of other media to assist us in the design process. We are now
>looking at a medium that can allow us full use of three dimensional
>creation, deletion, editing and visualization, with the only
>(long term) limitation being our creativity at devising new tools
>to allow us to manipulate points, lines, planes and volumes,
>either separately or collectively. As I said before, I think it 
>is the wrong attitude to take to believe that we should wait 
>until the systems are out there in the public domain and then 
>try to change what is existing. Currently, next to nothing exists
>on the boards. We have a clean slate to start with...
>

I thought we agreed on the advantages of VR's and I was expecting that
you give us an objective evaluation of the use of VR's in design and 
presenations. This might include creating concepts by tradtional pen &
papers versus creating concepts using the VR. Also it is beneficial if
you can say how different walking around a building in real life and using
VR application. The difference in perception, your physical and psychological
reactions..etc.

Regarding how the future trend of development, the producing firms have already
taken some architects with them but this did not prevent some shortfalls in the 
working of the packages produced.
Also remember that some large architectural firms have got their own computing
staff to produce their own specially tailored packages. Yet they too suffer
from some dissatisfaction with their packages (here the architects are involved
in the design and in the production of these systems).

The reasonable way for developing future systems is spread their use and 
enhance the original as more feedback is collected from the users.
 

>(D.Fung) (From an e-mail message)
>>Sorry that my system can't post article to newsgroup yet.
>
[....]

>Rick Zobel
>NCSU School of Design
>Architecture Dept.
>

I. Ballouz

-- 
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* IBRAHIM BALLOUZ            **           DEPARTMENT OF ARCHITECTURE          *
* ccav38@uk.ac.strath.ccsun  **  STRATHCLYDE UNIVERSITY GLASGOW SCOTLAND U.K. *
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Newsgroups: alt.architecture