HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: macon@gallifry.Berkeley.EDU (Glen Macon)
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Subject: Re: How would you rule?
Date: 28 Aug 92 14:24:45 GMT
Reply-To: macon@cbmvax.commodore.com (Glen Macon)
Organization: COMMODORE West Cester PA


In article <1992Aug27.215930.10264@rayssd.ssd.ray.com>,
sgm@sgfb.ssd.ray.com (Myerson) writes:
|> In article <1992Aug27.043935.7118@midway.uchicago.edu>,
|> pynq@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
|> 
|> * Playing in a club game tonite, we were being kibitzed by one of the
|> * club's directors (not the one running this game), and we had one of our
|> * usual complex Precision auctions (I think it was 1NT - 3NT).  Anyway, I
|> * was about to become dummy when we all noticed Lefty fumbling among her
|> * cards, obviously looking for a lead.  At this point, the kibitzer
|> * pointed out to her that it was not her lead.
|> * 
|> * We felt that we were injured, since we lost the opportunity to benefit
|> * from a lead out of turn.  What do you think?
|> 
|> You would think a director would know how to kibitz.
|> I would have said something to the effect that kibitzers
|> should not say anything, and if unable to do so, he should leave.
|> 
|> Steve Myerson (sgm@sgfb.ssd.ray.com)

if there were there any master points involved, call the director 
over pronto! if not take your lumps (while chastizing the kibitzer).



\_  \_  \_  \_  \_  \_  \_  \_ 

    \_\_\_      \_      \_                  Glen Macon 
   \_            \_\_  \_\_     any-net: macon@cbmvax.commodore.com
   \_             \_ \_\_ \_            Standard disclaimer...    
    \_   \_\_\_    \_  \_  \_   Commodore doesn't endorse what I say, I do
     \_       \_    \_      \_           Who wants to know...
       \_     \_     \_      \_           Robot roll call...  
	 \_\_\_       \_      \_   Cambot!  Gypsy!  Tom Servo!  Croooooow!
	                                           (__)              
 \_  \_  \_  \_  \_  \_  \_  \_  \_  \_            (..)
					    /-------\/  moo
   All those moments will be lost in time, / |     ||
   like tears in the rain.		  *  ||----|| 
					     ^^    ^^
From: h75@nikhefh.nikhef.nl (Henk Uijterwaal)
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Subject: This weekends results from Salsomaggiore
Date: 31 Aug 92 08:01:04 GMT
Reply-To: h75@nikhefh.nikhef.nl (Henk Uijterwaal)
Distribution: world
Organization: Nikhef-H, Amsterdam (the Netherlands).

Open (After 23 of 29 rounds).
====

    Group A                              Group B
    =======                              =======
 1. Denmark            23-416 VP's    1. USA              23-440 VP's    
 2. Israel                406         2. Turkey              436  
 3. Poland                401         3. The Netherlands     435.5
 4. Hong Kong             398         4. Sweden              416
 5. Austria               396         5. France              410
 6. Brazil                394         6. Finland/Suomi       390
 7. Japan                 383            Pakistan            390
    Egypt                 383         8. Iceland             389.5
 9. Great Britain         381

Women (After 29 of 34 rounds).
=====

   Group A                               Group B
   =======                               =======
1. Germany             29-536 VP's    1. Sweden           29-539 VP's
2. Austria                511         2. France              538
3. China                  500         3. Great Britain       536  
4. THE NETHERLANDS        484         4. Denemark            531 
5. Japan                  460         5. Canada              506
6. USA                    459.5       6. Australia           494
7. Bulgaria               455         7. South Africa        479
8. Israel                 441         8. Greece              467
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
From: bs@gauss.mitre.org (Robert D. Silverman)
Subject: Re: Try this one
Organization: Research Computer Facility, MITRE Corporation, Bedford, MA
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 17:30:46 GMT

In article <1992Aug26.162310.20713@Princeton.EDU> spencer@phoenix.princeton.edu (S. Spencer Sun) writes:
 
stuff deleted....
:>: Nothing is ever as simple as you typically make it out to be, especially to a
:>: beginner.
:>:
:>: Saying "I would bid 5NT, grand-slam force" would be more appropriate.
:>:
:>No system known to me (and I know a few) has any other use of the JUMP to 5NT
:>except the GSF. The GSF is even allowed in places they ban stayman and
:>blackwood.  Do you suggest that we should comment every bid?  Normal
:>practice in this group is to comment unexpected meanings. So for example
:>it is appropriate to say "I bid 4NT (DI)" but inappropriate to say: "I jump to
:>4NT (Blackwood)" because you don't wish to insult the audience.
:>You say, "1NT (14-16)" not 1NT "(14-16, any 4333 or 4432 or 5332 dist.)"
:
:I think if you had to pick one or the other, it would be better to err
:on the side of commenting too much.
:
:I also think you are completely missing Ben's point.  Ben is not
:complaining that Bob didn't comment GSF.  Ben is complaining that Bob
:was gratuitously belligerent.
 
We went through a round of discussions a while back concerning hands
where a question was asked that had an obvious reply. On some questions
it is perfectly appropriate to say "Of course you bid 'y'. What's the
problem"

Let's not have another debate over whether answering "You bid 'y',
what's the problem?" is belligerent.  Some questions ARE like asking
"what is 1+1", and it IS appropriate to then ask "why is this a problem?"
--
Bob Silverman
These are my opinions and not MITRE's.
Mitre Corporation, Bedford, MA 01730
"You can lead a horse's ass to knowledge, but you can't make him think"
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
From: matthew@base.cs.ucla.edu (Matthew Merzbacher)
Subject: Zip Swiss story
Organization: UCLA, Computer Science Department
Distribution: ca
Date:  2 Sep 92 16:13:07 GMT

mojo@Caere.COM (Morris Jones) writes:

>Pam and I had an interesting experience during Bridge Week in LA over
>the 4th of July weekend.  We wanted to enter the Midnight Zip Swiss and
>were lurking by the entry desk for teammates.  One potential pair
>passed us up hoping to find a more experienced team.  We did eventually
>find some teammates for the game and went 4-0 to win the event.

That's funny.  At the Pasadena Nationals, a pair of friends passed up
some lurking prospective partners so that they could play with us.  We 
went 4-0 to win the event.  The other side of the coin, I guess.
--

Matthew Merzbacher	ARPA:	matthew@CS.UCLA.EDU
Moo - Moo Moo  		UUCP:	...!{uunet|rutgers|ucbvax}!cs.ucla.edu!matthew
               		This time, *with* the oys
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
From: ttllarsa@eua.ericsson.se (Lars.Andersson)
Subject: Re: This weekends results from Salsomaggiore
Organization: Ellemtel Telecom Systems Labs, Stockholm, Sweden
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 06:59:29 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.064042.16001@eua.ericsson.se> ttllarsa@eua.ericsson.se (Lars.Andersson) writes:
>Two problems from Salsomaggiore;

Sorry about that, D in the hand diagram = Queen.






Results with 16 boards to go in Open QF and Women SF;

Open
USA-Egypt 205-108
Denmark-France 113-106 ;-)
Netherlands-Israel 98-88
Sweden-Poland 126-80 ;-)

Women
GB-Germany 144-104
Austria-France 111-102

--lars

Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
From: olle@astro.uu.se (Olof Morell)
Subject: Re: Checkback after 2NT rebid
Organization: UDAC, Uppsala, Sweden
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 14:07:47 GMT

In article <la9vv8INN1o6@notrees.cs.utexas.edu>, varvel@cs.utexas.edu (Donald A. Varvel) writes:
|> A week or so ago, talking about 1X-1Y; 2NT I said I saw no reason
|> for using 3C as checkback
[deleted details]
|>The approach I was objecting to leaves all bids at the 3-level forcing
|> but uses 3C for checkback.

Consider this sequence:

1H  - 1S
2NT - 3D

as a whole lot of people play this it would be semi-natural, often looking
for a three card support in spades. Opener will never dare to raise the second
suit, afraid of responder having faked the second suit.

Using 3C as checkback, and the rest forcing, gives you the opportunity
of asking, showing real two-suiters (except with clubs), and making a slam
try with six spades.

I'm not saying this is the best approach, but it's better than nothing...

*** Olle ***
----------------------------------------------------------------------
E-mail - Olle.Morell@astro.uu.se

Snail Mail - Astronomical Observatory, Box 515, 751 20 Uppsala, Sweden
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
From: jbaron@dirac.ssc.gov (Jeff Baron)
Subject: Re: Michaels without a c(l)ue--assign the blame
Reply-To: jbaron@dirac.ssc.gov (Jeff Baron)
Organization: Superconducting Super Collider Lab
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 19:09:23 GMT

Myerson writes:

- * In article <BtKn5r.2vp@ais.org> hampton@ais.org (Kevin Podsiadlik) writes:
- * >Love all, West deals:
- * >
- * >West                East
- * >T 7                 A K Q J 8
- * >9 2                 K Q 8 7 5
- * >7 5 3               K
- * >A K 9 7 4 2         6 5
- * >
- * >Pass      (1D)      2D(1)
- * >3C                  Pass
- * >
- 
- The 2D bid shows 5-5, but West does not have support for either suit.
- West should have at least 3 to support, unless there is no alternative.
- In this case, there is an alternative - 3C.
- It shows a decent 6 card or longer suit and denies support for either major.
- This is exactly what West has.
- 
- Yes, East could have 1 or 0 clubs, but imagine playing 2major
- from the West side with East having a club void.
- 
- How many tricks will the West hand produce?
- None unless the opponents lead a club.
- (Yes, the observant reader will note that the ten of spades is an entry,
- but no one could possibly know that at the time of the 2D call.)
- 
- How many tricks will the West hand produce in a club contract?
- Four, if the suit breaks somewhat evenly.

Specious reasoning.  If you are in a club contract, and East has a
club void, how many tricks is *that* hand going to produce for
you in your club contract?  Suppose that hand was AQxxx, Axxxx, xxx, -.
2 tricks?  Three tricks?  Your 4 plus his 2 equals 6.  Down 3.

Do we think that the opponents are *never* going to lead
a club?  What, then, are they going to lead?  Say they take *3*
trump tricks, and three diamond tricks in a heart contract.  What next?
Are they going to lead a spade (once) with no penalty from West,
and then what?  Another spade into AQ?  or, egads, a club?  They
can't *never* put you on the dummy without establishing your spade
suit.  Down 2.

Suppose that East has *1* club, say, AQxxx, Axxxx, xx, x.  Now
how many tricks are you going to take in a club contract- still
4 clubs when the sut is 4-2, and still 2.5 major suit tricks, call
it 7 tricks, or down 2.
What about 2H?  Now, your hand is worth 2 tricks; partner'll
lose 2 diamonds, a couple or 3 trumps, and a spade.  Down 1.

You cannot say that you hand is worth nothing is *his* contract,
when you know that *his* hand may be worth *less* in yours.  *That*
is specious reasoning.

Jeff
From: sater@cs.vu.nl (Hans van Staveren)
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Subject: Daily bulletins from Salsomaggiore
Date: 23 Aug 92 21:27:41 GMT

I just received a phone call from Marco Ex, one of the editors
of the daily bulletin in Salsomaggiore. I had sent them off with
a modem and instructions, and they managed to find out how to
hook up a modem to the Italian phone network. One problem is that
they have not been able to find a phone outlet and a computer in a
room together, making their job a bit difficult. They are going to
borrow a portable computer tomorrow, and do the transfer using that.

So keep your fingers crossed, and if starting tomorrow the daily
bulletins start arriving on rec.games.bridge I want a worldwide
applause for these guys.

I was asked by someone to make the bulletins available for anonymous
ftp, and I will do that. Just try ftp.cs.vu.nl:sater/bridge and look
around. If I get anything I will both post it to r.g.b and put it there.

	Hans van Staveren
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
From: rainbow@cbnewsc.cb.att.com (Rob Buchner)
Subject: Re: bis these hands
Organization: St Barts
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 21:19:34 GMT
Keywords: bypassing majors


>>North: AJTx,Qxx,AQTx,xx
>>South: Qx,Kxxxx,9xx,Axx
>>
>>1D-1H
>>1S-?

> If one is opening a balanced hand which doesn't qualify for a 1NT opening
> Eddie Kantar (among others) advocates rebidding 1NT instead of 1S to allow
> partner to use Checkback Stayman (an artificial 2C) or New Minor Forcing
> (an artificial 2D): this allows partner to check for both four spades
> and three hearts with one bid.

What works for me is to allow opener flexibility in bidding their
hand depending on the distribution of their values. For instance
with a low doubleton in an unbid suit it would seem more prudent
to bid your second suit. Otherwise you are begging to reach the
wrong contract, and for that matter from the wrong side too. Get
rid of the hard and fast rules, just bid naturally/descriptively.
With 4 weak spades and good minor suit holdings, go ahead with
1NT if you like that style and have the ability to check back.

> This style is of great benefit when playing weak NTs,
> but I think it's reasonable when playing strong NTs also.

This style isn't of great benefit when responder isn't strong
enough to check for a major suit fit, a significant drawback.
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
From: holzsche@prl.philips.nl (Con Holzscherer)
Subject: Re: This weekends results from Salsomaggiore
Organization: Philips Research Laboratories, Eindhoven, The Netherlands
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 07:15:45 GMT


>I wrote:
>>                QuarterFinals:
>> 
>>                    Ladies:
>>               (final results!)
>> Austria - Sweden         180 - (something less than 180-Delete went crazy) 
                                  129

>>               SemiFinals:                  
>>                Ladies:
>> Austria - Sweden

In article <1992Sep2.143729.28670@news.vanderbilt.edu> 
   LIPSCOJA@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu writes:
>So, Sweden gets a rematch with Austria despite losing.  Meanwhile, France
>is knocked out on a victory?  Doubtful at best.  AUT-FRA, anyone?

   Sorry, my mistake; of course it should have been 'AUT-FRA'.

Final Results of the SemiFinals Ladies:

  England - Germany   175 - 149
  Austria - France    135 - 121


Final Results of the QuarterFinals Men:

  USA         - Egypt    225 - 154
  Sweden      - Poland   179 -  98
  Netherlands - Israel   130 - 121
  France      - Denmark  145 - 143
                                                                          Con
-- 
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Con Holzscherer | phone +31-40-744431 | Internet: holzsche@prl.philips.nl  |
| Philips Research,  PO-box 80000, 5600 JA  Eindhoven, The Netherlands       |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
From: rainbow@cbnewsc.cb.att.com (Rob Buchner)
Subject: Re: baby question
Organization: St Barts
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 19:04:43 GMT
Keywords: let partner decide


> Matchpoints, none vul.
> 
> North: AJTx,Qxx,AQTx,xx
> South: Qx,Kxxxx,9xx,Axx
>
> 1D-1H
> 1S-?
>
> Now, at ?, what do you do?  It seems to me that bidding 1NT
> gives up the chance of playing in hearts when he has 3 of them.

Well, North has another bid coming over 1NT, 1NT need not end the
auction. If North feels 2H will play better with his 3 card support
despite a possible 4-3 fit, North will raise. It is not for South
to decide since North may also have a doubleton or stiff heart. On
this hand, with the low doubleton club, raising is an easy choice.
From: tac6189@hertz.njit.edu (Tom Carmichael                                                  )
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Subject: Re: The Butler Scoring Method (was Re: Toronto Nationals selection #1)
Date: 2 Sep 92 19:19:52 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

I'm not sure I'm following this thread entirely, but I can tell you another 
method that was used in Toronto for an IMP game.  (This might even be what you
are talking about; if so, I apologize.)

The Junior Trials in Toronto this summer was an IMP game, but an unusual one.
The imp score your received was the diffenrence between your score and 
every other score in your direction.  For example, if you went -100 and 15 
other pairs went +140 in your direction, your IMP score would be -90 for
that board.  The limited the IMP scale to a max swing of 17 IMPS instead of
24.  It seemed to be a very even way of doing the scoring, but unfortunately
not a very practical one for a multiple section event.  (With the exception
of the first two sessions, all the hands were duplicated for us.  The first
session was a web movement.  Tables 1-9 had boards moving normally while 
tables 10-18 had the boards moving in backwards order.)

Tom

-- 
"Sleep is a poor substitute for caffine."|  Tom Carmichael
	- The Wizardry Compiled		 |  tac6189@hertz.njit.edu
-----------------------------------------|  tomc@shock.njit.edu
#include <stddisclamer.h>		 |
From: doug@cm.deakin.OZ.AU (Douglas Newlands)
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Subject: Re: What would you bid?
Date: 1 Sep 1992 23:59:28 GMT
Organization: Deakin University, Geelong, Australia
NNTP-Posting-Host: sauron.cm.deakin.oz.au

In article <3645@tivoli.UUCP: taylor@foraker.tivoli.com (Eric Taylor) writes:
:Zip Swiss, You hold :
:xx
:KQx
:AKQxxxx
:A
:
:Bidding continues :
:You        Partner
:1D         1H
:??
:
:I would like to be in a heart game.
:
:Would 4D normally promise a solid
:suit and 4 card support?  Would this be
:an acceptable lie?
:
:3D is non-forcing.

I feel that you should have been aware that you didn't have a rebid before you
opened. This should probably have alerted you to the fact that 1D was the wrong bid.
If partner had the AS, 3 small diamonds and nothing else, 3NT would be cold
and 5D would probably make as well. Make a stronger opening bid.
I know a pair who use 3C, in auctions like this, to show good  opening suit and
good 3 card support for partner's suit: if you play change of suit forcing 
this is a viable option.

doug.
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
From: sperbr@marcus.its.rpi.edu (Ron E Sperber)
Subject: what went wrong?
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 22:18:14 GMT

Playing in the Flight B swiss in a regional you pick up the following
hand (white on red)

KQxxx
KQTx
x
xxx

Partner in first seat opens 1H and with the opponents silent the auction
proceeds:

1H   1S(1)
2N   3H
3S   4H
P

(1) promises 5 spades
this proved to not be the optimal contract as we were +480 missing a 
nearly cold slam with partner holding:
AJ
Axxxx
KQJ
Axx

Where did the auction go wrong? I think its possible (not great) for
my hand to splinter,but if anything,that makes my partners hand worse
since KQJ is not the greatest holding to have opposite a splinter.


	-Ron


-- 
    Ron Sperber  sperbr@rpi.edu Ron_Sperber@mts.rpi.edu Ron_sperber@rpitsmts
	"All the World's indeed a stage/And we are merely players"
	"Performers and Portrayers/Each anothers audience        "
	"Outside the gilded cage"                     	-Rush,"Limelight"
From: bpwing@phoenix.princeton.edu (Ben Wing)
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Date: 25 Aug 92 21:54:33 GMT
Subject: Re: Try this one
Organization: Princeton University
X-Subliminal-Message: You can quit reading news anytime you want.

In article <1992Aug24.223338.14575@ramon.bgu.ac.il> avir@chen.bgu.ac.il (Avi Roy Shapira) writes:

[blah blah blah]

Thanks much for your kind and well-reasoned response.  I appreciate your
acknowledgement of my intelligence (or lack thereof -- you make the call).

Despite what you think, I am not a beginner.  I am aware that a jump to 5NT
is normally grand-slam force.  How many times does it come up, however?
I seriously don't think I can remember it coming up once in the last 1,000
or more hands I have played.  I can see giving such a jump a different meaning
(e.g. some sort of "choice of slam" bid or whatever).

I was mainly objecting to Bob's tone (IMHO "why is my call even in doubt?" is
much more insulting than "I jump to 4NT (Blackwood)") and to his tendency to
assume that his system is the One True System beside which all other systems
pale in their inadequacy.  Normally I keep quiet about his flames but this
one was just completely gratuitous.

yom tov l'cha ...

p.s.
|irritated by this stupid and meaningless post. I suspect the poster
|is the kind that will jump in class to tell the teacher that he should not
|say "between you and me" but "between you and I".....

Perhaps you're not aware that "between you and me" is correct?

ben
--

Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
From: yeetroy@ecf.toronto.edu (Troy of the Clan Cameron)
Subject: Does anyone know of a bridge program that runs on SUNs?
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility
Distribution: ca
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 13:23:09 GMT

   The subject says it all.  I hope I'm not rehashing an old question!
Please e-mail your response to keep the bandwidth down.
   Thanks,
      Troy.
 
-- 
Troy of the Clan Cameron                       "Aonaibh ri Cheile"
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
From: hampton@ais.org (Kevin Podsiadlik)
Subject: Re: Bid this, or something
Organization: UMCC
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 14:10:00 GMT

In article <1992Aug28.183821.6860@beaver.cs.washington.edu> dberman@cs.washington.edu (Deborah Berman) writes:
>>Case in point. You are third hand.  Partner opens 2D (weak, pre-empt,
>>implies at least 2 honors and 6 cards, no voids, at most [...]
>>
>>You hold
>>
>>S - A K 3 2
>>H - K J 10 9 6
>>D - <nil>
>>C - K Q 9 6
>>
>>As an aside, pard holds:
>>
>>S - 7 4
>>H - Q 7
>>D - A K 10 9 8 5
>>C - 8 5 2
>>
>>I'm sure we're doing something wrong. Care to enlighten me?
>
>I would bid 2nt asking for an outside feature, upon hearing none, I would
>bid 3nt to play.  Even if I hear one, I would bid 3nt to play.  It seems
>to me to be the right contract, even with the void, since pard doesn't
>have a void, and my hand looks good in the other three suits.
>
>No flames, please.  Just nice intellectual exchanges...

And with my luck, I would be your LHO, and would be holding the heart ace
and three or four spades.

3NT is not a terrible contract on this specific pair of hands, since, if
you can get to dummy, you can wrap up four hearts, two spades, two diamonds
and a club, assuming the defenders can't take three spade tricks to go with
their two aces.  It comes to about a 45% game.

Take away the heart queen, though, or make partner's diamonds KQJTxx, and
3NT doesn't have a prayer.  In general, it doesn't pay to play in notrump
with a void in partner's suit, especially when you know he isn't likely
to have an outside entry.

2NT to ask for a feature is tempting, but if partner has a feature (has to
be heart or club ace!) partner's diamonds will likely be weak, and again
won't set up, so 3NT still isn't good.

Personally, I would look for the best way of getting the opponents in the
auction.  Against weak opponents I would pass, making it easy for them to
bid at an apparently safe level.  Against more experienced opponents I
would try 3D (yes, raising on a void!), hoping to sound preemptive.

-- 
Kevin J. Podsiadlik         | "A recent survey has revealed that, if the
Vaporware Engineer          | election were to be held tomorrow, a whopping
2nd class                   | 98% of those polled would be glad it came
E-mail: hampton@ais.org     | early this year." -- Thomas Sowell (paraphrased)
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge