Organization: Penn State University
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 14:25:29 EST
From: <KRB104@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Chaney is a racist (and other ramblings) (was re: why...)
Distribution: world
 <1993Jan5.064514.28943@news2.cis.umn.edu> <93005.071806KRB104@psuvm.psu.edu>
 <1993Jan7.205708.344@csus.edu>

In article <1993Jan7.205708.344@csus.edu>, chaneysa@nextnet.csus.edu (Stephen A
Chaney) says:
>
>In article <93005.071806KRB104@psuvm.psu.edu> <KRB104@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>>   Poor Stephen Chaney!  Everyone is jumping on him for his statements (and
>>rightly so).  But does the man really see his problem?  He is exactly what
>the
>>white man has been trying to get us to do all of our lives!  The American    l
>idea
>>of beauty, virtue, and temperment is the white woman (I am getting sick
>here).
>>At least that is what the media has led us to believe, and Mr. Chaney has
>>fallen for it.  In addition, I think that he is a racist!  Is it possible to e
>b
>>racist towards your own race, most certainly (look at Clarence Thomas and    s
>Jame
>>Meredith - any brother who works for Jesse Helms needs a lobotomy).
>
>Neither of them are racist. If you can prove Meredith and Thomas are
>racist, please post that proof here. Otherwise, retract it.
>
>In fact, to discourage you from ignoring this, I'll invite you to post
>it between these two lines:
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------

  OK, I will use the space that you have so graciously given me.   James
Meredith was as assistant of the infamous Civil Rights Leader (by the way, I
am being scracastic about that) Jesse Helms.  Jesse Helms was the man who used
blatantly racist commercials in order to defeat his Black opponent for the
U.S. Senate back in 1990.  Meredith, on several occasions during the campaign
advocated several of Jesse's more elaborate, racist ideals.  Exactly what they
were, I don't recall exactly sitting here at my computer, but if someone knows
off the top of their head please jump in.  Do you not deny the racist rantings
of Meredith's former boss?
  As far as "Uncle" Clarence Thomas, well this is up to each individual's
interpretations.  Mine is that he is a racist towards Blacks.  In his role as
head of the EEOC, he constantly through barriers in the way of Blacks seeking
equal protection under the law.  On the Supreme Court thus far, he has voted
for cruel punishment in prison, where a great deal of our brothers are being
held.  This is a man who claims to have pulled himself up by his own bootstraps
(I do not wish to downgrade the man's accomplishments, he has accomplished a
lot), and the only time acknowledges the fact that he is a Black man is when it
is political expediant to do so ("High tech lynching").  In my eyes, he is a
racist, along with some other famous people.
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>>   Black women have the STEREOTYPE of not taking shit and kicking ass and we
>> all know (since we are intelligent people) that stereotypes are just that
>and
>>that each individual should be taken at their own worth.  But if you         d
>understan
>>what the white man has done to the Black family throughout our history in
>this
>>land you will understand why the stereotype may, in fact, be true.  The Black
>>family has been split up from the time we were kidnapped in Africa and the
>>Black woman has had to be the mother and the father for a long time.  And we
>>men know that if a woman is assertive and stands up for herself the first
>word
>>that comes out of our mouths is "Bitch", even though as men we are expected
>>to have these attributes.  So is Mr. Chaney guilty of something as simple as
>>sexism?  Yes he is!  White women, who are now becoming more independent are
>>becoming more "bitchey" also.  What will Mr. Chaney turn to next?
>
>Independent and bitchy are different things. Some women are
>independent - I like that. (I can't stand a dependent arm-clinger for
>a girlfriend.) Some women are bitchy - I can't stand that. (So are
>some men.)
>
>Men who shout "bitch" whenever a woman is simply independent and
>speaking her mind, are punks. But that is not the case with me and I
>have never called a woman "bitch" on this newsgroup, so it does not
>apply to me at all. Why did you post this?
>

    I did not say that you used the word "bitch" (which is why I had it in
quotes") but you do give the definition of what some men consider a "bitch"
when you make your attack against Black women.  Nowhere did I say that you
actually used the word, so don't get so defensive.

>
>>   Black women are the reason why our race has survived and will be the
>reason
>>why we will not be extinct.  With 25% of our young men either in prison or on
>>probation, it will be up to our women to raise our kids and make them
>> productive citizens.  The women can't do it alone, though throughout our
>>history they have been forced to.  We need strong male role models.  We are
>in
>>danger now, and we don't need division over some sexist, racist remarks by a
>>man who appears that he would be happy waking up tomorrow as some sort of
>>"reverse Watermelon Man" (remember that movie from the sixties?).
>
>We have RIGHTS in this country, mister. One of those rights is to DATE
>AND MARRY WHOEVER WE WANT.
>
>And if you or anyone else wants to take that right away or abuse us
>for using that right, I'll take division any day. Peace without
>freedom is one option I won't accept, and I'll steamroll anyone who
>tries to take it away. The danger you speak of is irrelevant to me.
>
>Racial purism is plain and simple Naziism, no matter what its color
>is.

   What the hell are you talking about Naziism here for?  I specifically say
that I have no problem at all with whom you decide to date, make love to or
marry, that is totally none of my business.  The reason why I called you a
"Reverse Watermelon Man" is that you obviously have a dislike for your race,
or at least for the women who happen to share your race.  We are in America
where you are supposedly allowed to marry and date whom you wish, and I applaud
that.  Your problem is that you make generalizations about the entire
population of Black women.  Don't you see the danger and the incorrectness of
that?  It is just as bad as when a white person, after watching "New Jack City"
to come to the conclusion that all but a few Blacks are on crack.  Or as bad as
every time a "Black view" is needed by the media they head straight for Jesse
Jackson.  If nothing else, we agree on the fact that there is no one "Black
view" just like there is not "one Black woman".  Each of our sisters should be
taken for their own worth and should not be judged on the last sister that
disrespected you!
>
>
>>  Sorry that I went off on a tangent but actually it all fits.  You can see
>>where the danger is of us hating ourselves and our women leads to the
>problems
>>that we have now with Black on Black crime and the destruction of our        .
>families
>>We can't blame the white man totally for our sins and our transgressions,
>some
>>of the blame has to be in the mirror, but everything effects everything.  By
>>the way, and I should have made this clear in the beginning, I don't give a
>>shit who Chaney dates, again, each person should be taken as an individual,
>>but to exclude someone from your dating pool because of race is bigotted,
>>especially when you do so because you believe that the race has something
>>inherently evil within it.  There are some bad black women (that woman who
>>turned me down for a dance at the club comes to mind), some good black women
>>(my mother is a saint), some bad white women (Marge Schott) and some good
>>white women (I like Hillary), so race is not important, it is the individual!
>
>Yeah, right. If people REALLY thought it was none of their business
>who another black person dated or married, this discussion would not
>be going on in the first place.

   Wrong!  This discussion, if you carefully read what I wrote, is not about
who you choose to date, but rather your insistent on the unworthiness of Black
women as a whole.  There will always be people who are concerned with who
others date, both Black and white (you mean to tell me that white people have
said nothing to you or your girlfriend about your situation?  I would find that
impossible to believe).  This discussion is about your sweeping generalizations
about the sisters of this country, nothing else.

>
>As for me, I've just been informed of a black conservative newsletter
>by Elizabeth Wright, called Issues & Views. I'll leave you all for now
>and plunk a letter in my mailbox to get a subscription.
>
>Good grief.. Clarence Thomas and James Meredith.. RACISTS against
>blacks? Come on, that has got to be the most paranoid, uneducated,
>stupid statement that has ever been made on this newsgroup.
>
  Paranoid?  Maybe.  Stupid?  Depending on your political beliefs, possible.
Uneducated?  Sorry buddy.  You know of not what you speak.  Unless you know
something about me, then you shouldn't make that statment.  As a Black man who
graduated with honors with degrees in Chemical Engineering, Sociology and is
trying to finish his graduate degrees, I think uneducated is the wrong
adjective to describe me and my statement.  You were almost doing fine until
that statement!
  I still say that you suffer from a classic case of self hate that Dr. Ken
Clark made famous during the Brown v. Board of Education court case.  If you
do not know what I speak of, I would advise you to read his work, it may open
your eyes about what I am talking about.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american