HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: grabiner@math.harvard.edu (David Grabiner)
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Subject: Re: Computer Bridge and the Law
Date: 12 Jan 93 01:00:08 GMT
Organization: Harvard University Dept. of Mathematics
In-reply-to: taylor@foraker.tivoli.com's message of 11 Jan 93 20:57:16 GMT

In article <7803@tivoli.UUCP>, Eric Taylor writes:

> On related notes, in a computer game, should a player be
> forced to wait after a skip bid warning?

Players should do this, although it is dangerous to take advantage of
anyone's hesitation (see below).

> Should a minimum overall tempo be given to the bidding?

> Should a computer game give warning to a player that
> his partner has significantly varied the tempo and that
> the players next bid will be subject to the 75% rule
> (or 25% or whatever)?

No, because the computer cannot tell whether the player has varied the
tempo, or made his bid in tempo but got it off late because of network
delays.  It isn't fair to require a player to avoid questionable bids
just because his partner is on the other side of the Atlantic.

--
David Grabiner, grabiner@zariski.harvard.edu
"We are sorry, but the number you have dialed is imaginary."
"Please rotate your phone 90 degrees and try again."
Disclaimer: I speak for no one and no one speaks for me.
From: tnh@sw.stratus.com (Tim Hill)
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Subject: Re: Reading List?
Date: 5 Jan 1993 04:05:04 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: tornadic.sw.stratus.com
Keywords: books

In article <1iakcqINNsfc@sol.deakin.OZ.AU>, doug@cm.deakin.OZ.AU (Douglas Newlands) writes:
> ...
> I have avoided replying to this thread simply because it seems the English
> books are largely not available in the US ...

Not so.  The works of Reese and Mollo are especially well represented on
my bookshelf, and there's a good bit of Flint, Kelsey, Klinger, North,
and Sharp as well.

However, it's crucial for a novice to grasp the fundamentals of standard
bidding before becoming confused by umpteen other systems.  Since
the standard bidding systems in England (Acol) and North America
(Standard American with five-card majors) are very different, I
recommend that an American novice start with a recent American book
on bidding.

An American novice should save books grounded in other bidding systems
for later.  This includes all English books on basic bidding (Acol) as
well as older American books (four-card majors).  _Five Weeks to
Winning Bridge_ is still a great book, but its notion of Standard
American bidding is just plain out-of-date.

(Flame deflectors on.)
-- 
Tim Hill
Stratus Computer, Inc.                  tnh@vos.stratus.com
55 Fairbanks Boulevard                  508-460-2232
Marlborough, MA  01752                  fax 508-624-7488
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
From: daveshao@leland.stanford.edu (David Shao)
Subject: Re: How many ways?
Originator: daveshao@leland.Stanford.EDU
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 18:02:22 GMT

In article <C0r0tM.847@deshaw.com> baseggio@deshaw.com (Franco Baseggio) writes:
>In article <1iufgjINNo1m@s-crim1.dl.ac.uk> mbrgw@s-crim1.dl.ac.uk (R.G. Walters) writes:
>>A slam hand from the Gold Cup.
>>
>>At adverse vulnerability, you hear LHO open 1 spade, and quickly find yourself
>>bounced into this seven club contract:
>>
>>  Q 7 6                    (Well, not quite - they chickened out of the
>>  K 9 8                     sacrifice and let us play in 6C)
>>  A Q 7 5 3
>>  K 8                       How do you play on a small diamond lead?
>>
>>  -                         What about a low heart lead?
>>  A 7 6 5 4                 
>>  2                         Is there more than one way to play the hand?
>>  A Q J 10 4 3 2
>>
>How about playing LHO for AKxxx/xxx/Kxxx/x or something similar.  Take
>the diamond finesse, play DA (pitching a heart) and ruff a diamond.
>Now run 7 clubs reaching this position:
>     Q
>     K98
>A    7       any (except K)
>QJT          no more than 2
>J            none
>-    -       none
>     A765
>     -
>     2
>
>Pitch the H8 regardless of what LHO pitches.  If a heart is pitched,
>take your heart tricks.  If a diamond, you have an automatic squeeze
>(HK, D7, LHO has no pitch again).  A spade pitch leads to a similar
>fate. 

Is it really necessary to assume that LHO has D Kxxx?  How about this
line:  take DA at trick one, ruff a diamond, cross to dummy with CK,
ruff another diamond high.  The DK has fallen if EITHER LHO or RHO
started with D Kxx.  Now as Bob Silverman pointed out one has
twelve tricks and can hope to squeeze LHO in the majors.

Is it really so unreasonable for LHO to open 1S with say 5+ spades,
4 hearts and 11 HCP?  RHO bounced for some reason, thus
he quite likely has a singleton somewhere.  He can't have it in
clubs for LHO to have thirteen cards, and if he had a singleton in
diamonds would LHO have let you buy the contract with 6 diamonds
and a guaranteed crossruff?  I think it quite likely for RHO to have
a singleton in hearts.

The opponents in the original 6C contract sold out at the
6 level, indicating that perhaps they had some defense.  And even
without this piece of information, why would they sell out to 7C
unless they were pretty sure they had good chances against it?
DK behind dummy's suit is one of the few bits of defense they could have.




Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
From: rudy@netcom.com (Rudy)
Subject: Re: computer bridge question and a general comment
Keywords: BridgePal FAQ FBI KGB Cryptology
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Distribution: rec.games.bridge
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 16:33:48 GMT

In article <1993Jan9.082616.16074@ee.rochester.edu> kgreen@ee.rochester.edu (Kenton A. Green) writes:
>However, I hope it is not the general consensus of this group that
>only very good players such as Bob S., Bharat R., etc can post.  I 

Depends what they want to post.  Questions?  Anyone should be able
to post those (assuming they are phased as "bridge" questions) however
novices submitting random hand analyses do tend to annoy a lot of people.

>hope instead that the abovementioned, and every one else, will tolerate
>a little bit (alot?) of "noise" from us novices.  I see groups that
>get contributions from all levels, and although one has to wade through
>a fair amount, by and large it is informative.  I also see groups that
>are essentially just an insult forum, and others with postings from only
>a few people, which makes me think "why don't they just email one
>another?"  I would like to see this group fall into the first category.

Sort of like people who've never had sex posting on alt.sex?

Or people asking what's "ls" on comp.unix.wizards?  Oh, never mind
we decided not to split rgb into rgb.wizards  :)

>Is the shareware (semi-free) program for MS-DOS called Bridge Pal
>useful for a beginner?  By that I mean, does the computer in the
>other three positions bid acceptably?  Does it play the hands reason-
>ably?  I have tried it, and it sometimes does things that confuse me,
>so I don't know if I should quit using it because I will gain bad
>habits, or if I should use it and learn from it.  (One example: I
>bid 1 NT w/ 16-18 pts and balance, and my partner passes with 8 points.
>Thats not usually correct on his part, is it?)
>
Chances are like most other programs I have seen it will do totally
random things which make no sense to anyone.  I found it more useful
to deal out a deck of cards and then bid everyone's hand and see who can
make what at your stage, rather than get confused by random programs
and novice analyses on rgb :)

Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
From: adam@irvine.com (Adam Beneschan)
Subject: Re: What's your call?
Organization: Irvine Compiler Corp., Irvine, California, USA
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 00:08:05 GMT

In article <C0Cp8D.CnG@deshaw.com> baseggio@deshaw.com (Franco Baseggio) 
writes:

>   Flt B swiss, early round, white on white.  You, south, hold
>   KT965
>   AQ5
>   A
>   KT93
>
>   South  North
>   1S     1N
>   2C     4S
>   ?
>
>   1N was forcing, but limited to 12 HCP.  4S means that North was going
>   to make a balanced 3 piece limit raise, but liked your 2C bid.
>
>   What if you were in a long KO match?

This is a tough problem.  There are a number of hands North could have
on which slam is good (AQx/Kxx/xxx/QJxx; QJx/Kxx/xxx/AQxx;
AQx/xxx/xx/AQxxx), but it's not easy to find out whether partner has
the right hand.  I would probably be conservative and bid 4NT (RKCB),
and go to slam only if partner has both aces and the trump queen.
I'll miss some good slams (including two of the three hands above),
and occasionally 5S will be go down if partner has xxx of spades.  If
I'm playing against a stronger team or I need a big swing, I might bid
4NT and go to slam with two aces, or one ace plus the queen of trumps.
If partner has something like Qxx/Kxx/xxx/AQxx, I'll still make if I
guess the jack of trumps and they don't get a club ruff.  (But I don't
think I'd take this chance in a Flight B Swiss.)

I know, I'm going to get flamed by all the Blackwood-haters.  But
given my mediocre trump suit, I don't see a better solution.  I don't
see how a cuebid would either get me the information I need to know,
or give partner the information he needs to know.

                                -- Adam
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
From: bclaus@cs.wright.edu (Brian Clausing)
Subject: Re: Reading List?
Organization: Wright State University
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 07:21:08 GMT

From article <1iakcqINNsfc@sol.deakin.OZ.AU>, by doug@cm.deakin.OZ.AU (Douglas Newlands):
> In article <C0CG7v.9qF@deshaw.com: baseggio@deshaw.com (Franco Baseggio) writes:
> :Do other netters concur that "the big red book" is required reading?
> :Also, does anyone know where the Kelsey defense book (what is it
> :called?) is sold?  I've never seen it.
> 
> :  Franco
> 
> The Kelsey books are called "Killing Defence", "Advanced Declarer Play" and
> several others. They are available through the (British) Bridge Magazine if
> you are stuck.
> I have avoided replying to this thread simply because it seems the English
> books are largely not available in the US but the original correspondent
...

Kelsey's books have always been available in the U.S.  There are now
maybe a dozen and a half of them, and they are apparently quite popular.

Reese's (and Mollo's) books are also available, but some of the titles
have been changed.  I have seen them even at the malls....

Now that everyone has had the pleasure of posting on this subject at
least once, may I suggest that further recommendations be sent to FAQ.
Happy New Year.

Brian Clausing

Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
From: bs@gauss.mitre.org (Robert D. Silverman)
Subject: Re: Bidding Opinions Sought
Organization: Research Computer Facility, MITRE Corporation, Bedford, MA
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 19:46:02 GMT

In article <1ihmfgINNhg2@transfer.stratus.com> kvk@questor.sw.stratus.com (Ken Koellner) writes:
>IMPs, White/White, Dealer: West
>You sit South holding:
>	s x
>	h JTxx
>	d KJxxxxx
>	c x
>
>The auction start out:
>	W	N	E	S
>	p	1NT	p	?
>
>What's the best reponse?  
 
An interesting problem.

 
Firstly, you do not say what kind of 1NT you are playing.
The response to a K-S or ACOL 1NT would not be the same as to a 16-18
or other 1NT.

Secondly, I hate to say this again, but it depends on your methods. I have a 
way of dealing with such hands [a variation of Walsh relays],  but it is
unlikely that you play Walsh.

Do you play 4 suit transfers? If so, do you have pre-acceptance bids
for your transfers? etc. etc.

The question also does not admit a unique answer. 'Best' is highly
subjective.

I would handle this by transferring into diamonds by bidding 2NT.
What happens next depends on partner's response. If partner bids 3C
[a pre-acceptance bid], then I would bid 3H. The pre-acceptance
bid over a transfer into a minor says: "partner; if your transfer
bid is based upon an invitational hand with a diamond suit, I would
accept because I have good diamond support".  If partner has poor
diamond support (say xx) he will simply accept the transfer and I
will PASS.

Note that this sequence:

1N	2N
3C	3H

is only a search for game. Some people might think it is a slam try
cuebid in support of diamonds, but it is not because of the principle:
GAME BEFORE SLAM.  It is also not a slam try, because I have a
separate way of making a broken suited slam try in diamonds [or solid
suited] with a secondary suit.
 
If partner raises 3H to 4H, I sit. If he bids 5D, I sit. Over anything
else I bid a simple 4D.

Actually, even this last point is not so clear. Further reflection
shows that over 3H if partner bids 3NT you may want to sit. He is
aware you are red 2-suited with perhaps only invitational values.
[If you have a game forcing hand you will bid again]. He could have
a 4 by 3 with 4 Aces and out. I think therefore that if partner bids
3NT over 3H you should SIT and over 3S or 4C bid 4D.



Transfer into diamonds. If partner pre-accepts, try 3H. If partner does
not, then pass.
--
Bob Silverman
These are my opinions and not MITRE's.
Mitre Corporation, Bedford, MA 01730
"You can lead a horse's ass to knowledge, but you can't make him think"
From: tnh@sw.stratus.com (Tim Hill)
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Subject: Re: Yet another place the blame.
Date: 5 Jan 1993 21:36:28 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: bigbootay.sw.stratus.com

In article <1ick0sINN76p@agate.berkeley.edu>, grove@triangle.Berkeley.EDU (Eddie Grove) writes:
> In article <1i9cflINNb99@transfer.stratus.com> tnh@sw.stratus.com (Tim Hill) writes:
> >In article <1993Jan3.202515.27062@midway.uchicago.edu>, pynq@quads.uchicago.edu (Jeremy Mathers) writes:
> 
> Thanks to Jeremy for putting the hand in a readable form.

You're welcome (but "Jeremy" originally posted the deal and I put it into
a standard diagram).

> >> Vulnerability: Unknown.  Imps, [South] dealer.
>  
> >                    x
> >                    AKJx
> >                    Axxx
> >                    Axxx
> >          AJxx                Kxxxxx
> >          xxx                 xxx
> >          Qxxxx               x
> >          J                   Qxx
> >                    Qx
> >                    Qxx
> >                    KJx
> >                    Kxxxx
> 
> NS get to 6C, and Tim Hill asks for the blame.

No, "Jeremy Mathers" asked for the blame.

> The blame goes to the poster!  6C is not a bad contract,
> certainly not bad enough to warrant a posting asking who
> is to blame.  In a later post, it was made clear that the
> declaring side held the CT.

Yes, it is a good slam.  It can also be made as the cards lie (given the
information, which "Jeremy" supplied later, that NS's club spots include the
ten and nine).  And it should be made.  West's spade overcall apparently marks
West with longer spades, so declarer should start trumps with dummy's ace.  When
West drops the quack, restricted choice says "finesse."

"Jeremy" didn't say 6C was a bad contract.  He asked for blame.  I don't like
South's opening bid, even if NS did stumble into a good contract.  And I don't
like the declarer play.
-- 
Tim Hill
Stratus Computer, Inc.                  tnh@vos.stratus.com
55 Fairbanks Boulevard                  508-460-2232
Marlborough, MA  01752                  fax 508-624-7488
From: markus@octavia.anu.edu.au (Markus Buchhorn)
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Subject: FAQ (maybe... one day soon...)
Date: 7 Jan 1993 05:17:01 GMT
Organization: Australian National University, Canberra
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: 150.203.5.35
Originator: markus@octavia




I'm relatively new to the game of bridge - played for about 6 months, and
enjoying it greatly. I also have a job which provides me with excellent
network connectivity. Unless someone else is really keen to do it, I'll
volunteer to maintain a FAQ here, and making it ftp-able (I'll try
to find an appropriate site in the US and Europe to keep the netload down).

At this stage I have grabbed a fair chunk of stuff and am cleaning it up.
My idea (readily modifiable :-) ) is for something like the following

(i) - RGB Style Guide
(ii) - Playing Bridge across the Network
(iii) - Playing Bridge against the Computer
(iv) - Useful Books to Read
(v) - Conventions: Why does 1NT/2S mean different things in different places
(vi) - Systems: Just what is 'Stayman, Jacoby xfers, Michaels cuebids, Gerber...'
(vii) - Useful techniques and ways to use them: beginners guide to finesse, ....
(viii) - Miscelaneous: Calculating distribution probabilities,....
(ix) - Bridge Clubs in Your area of the world and how to contact them (looong..)
(x) .......

ad nauseaum

At this stage I have (i) and lots on (iv). (ii) is okbridge. (iii) I've heard
of a few, but no references/reviews. Local Bridge Clubs could be quite
useful info to people who want to try it, but have no idea where. The club 
where I play here is superb for beginners all the way to the highly-advanced.

I found some files on conventions at cs.ucsd.edu, but I'm sure there are
more. I'm learning new systems everyday it seems, and hearing of more, etc., etc.

Anyway, what I want now is input from the RGB community (a fairly colourful
group :-), sorry, bad pun). I saw at least one person who said 'I have
something for the FAQ, but there ain't none.'

So how about it ? I'm sure that the ratio of read-only-ers/posters is quite
high in RGB, with many beginners. Let's provide something really useful
here !

Contributions should be mailed to me. I'll try to clean things as quickly
as possible. Question: How often should the FAQ be posted, if at all ?

Cheers,
	Markus

-- 
Markus Buchhorn, Parallel Computing Research Facility
email = markus@octavia.anu.edu.au
Australian National University, I-Block, PO Box 4, Canberra, 2601, Australia.
[International = +61 6, Australia = 06] [Phone = 2492930, Fax = 2490747]
-- 
Markus Buchhorn, Parallel Computing Research Facility
email = markus@octavia.anu.edu.au
Australian National University, I-Block, PO Box 4, Canberra, 2601, Australia.
[International = +61 6, Australia = 06] [Phone = 2492930, Fax = 2490747]
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
From: sgm@sgfb.ssd.ray.com (Steven G. Myerson)
Subject: Re: Arggggh!
Keywords: true, ouch
Organization: Raytheon Submarine Signal Division
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 18:17:11 GMT

In article <1ielb9INNq9c@s-crim1.dl.ac.uk> R.G. Walters writes:

* This came up last night:
* 
* Vul. vs not, you deal.
* 
* S  -                    You open 1NT (20+, any shape), and LHO leaps in
* H  K Q T                with 4S, passed round to you.
* D  K Q J 9 8
* C  A K Q 2              Pick a bid.

First of all, what is the 13th card?

Secondly, does partner pass convey any information?
What would double have been?

Assuming partner's pass indicated less than 6 points or so:

If the missing card is a heart, a takeout double seems right.
If the missing card is a diamond, I'd bid 5D.
If the missing card is a club, I'd bid a minor suit takeout 4N.

If double and 4N don't mean these things, just ignore this entire post. :-)

By the way, if you change the opening bid to 1 precision club showing
16+ points with any shape,
you have given us a problem which many strong clubbers dread.
Of course, we have all discussed with our partners what pass and
double mean over the preempt, haven't we?

Steve Myerson (sgm@sgfb.ssd.ray.com)
From: mbrgw@s-crim1.dl.ac.uk (R.G. Walters)
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Subject: How many ways?
Date: 12 Jan 1993 13:02:11 -0000
Organization: Daresbury Lab., Warrington, U.K.
NNTP-Posting-Host: seqnet.dl.ac.uk

A slam hand from the Gold Cup.

At adverse vulnerability, you hear LHO open 1 spade, and quickly find yourself
bounced into this seven club contract:

S  Q 7 6                    (Well, not quite - they chickened out of the
H  K 9 8                     sacrifice and let us play in 6C)
D  A Q 7 5 3
C  K 8                       How do you play on a small diamond lead?

S  -                         What about a low heart lead?
H  A 7 6 5 4                 
D  2                         Is there more than one way to play the hand?
C  A Q J 10 4 3 2

Sorry if this got posted twice (in slightly different forms).

Robin Walters.


Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
From: rudy@netcom.com (Rudy)
Subject: Re: Bob S
Keywords: FAQ
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 23:45:34 GMT

In article <1ikmglINNcnv@transfer.stratus.com> tnh@sw.stratus.com (Tim Hill) writes:
>Bharat Rao suggests criss-cross forcing minor raises.  That sounds reasonable
>if 1D-2C is not game forcing.  If 1D-2C is game forcing and 1D-3C is a diamond
>raise, then how do you respond to 1D with Qxx,x,Jxx,AQTxxx?

One spade.  What's the problem?
From: doug@cm.deakin.OZ.AU (Douglas Newlands)
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Subject: Re: Reading List?
Date: 5 Jan 1993 00:22:50 GMT
Organization: Deakin University, Geelong, Australia
NNTP-Posting-Host: sauron.cm.deakin.oz.au
Keywords: books

In article <C0CG7v.9qF@deshaw.com: baseggio@deshaw.com (Franco Baseggio) writes:
:Do other netters concur that "the big red book" is required reading?
:Also, does anyone know where the Kelsey defense book (what is it
:called?) is sold?  I've never seen it.

:  Franco

The Kelsey books are called "Killing Defence", "Advanced Declarer Play" and
several others. They are available through the (British) Bridge Magazine if
you are stuck.
I have avoided replying to this thread simply because it seems the English
books are largely not available in the US but the original correspondent
(Deb?) should definitely look at "Reese on Play"; the organisation and clarity
of writing are superb and it was written so many years ago you would be
surprised.
The Kelsey books are not for beginners; they change intermediate players into
good players IF you work at the problems - they have NO equal. On a similar
vein but less heavy is Mollo's "Case for the Defence".

doug.
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
From: jmh@athena.mit.edu (J Michael Hammond)
Subject: Re: Bidding and Play Problem
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 17:25:42 GMT

In article <1993Jan11.150151.24960@linus.mitre.org> bs@gauss.mitre.org (Robert D. Silverman) writes:
>In article <1993Jan11.140826.20728@athena.mit.edu> I write:
...

>:Here's the hand (from South's point of view):
>:
>:        ATxx             
>:        Txx              | 
>:        Axxx             | 
>:KQJ9x   A8      x        | 
>:AQxx            xxx      | 
>:KQxx            JTxx     | {my suboptimal line deleted.}  :-) 
>:---     xxx     J96xx    | 
>:        KJx              | 
>:        x                | 
>:        KQT7xx           | 
>:                         | 
> 
>The best line of play is to win the A spades, A diamonds, ruff a diamond.
>Club to the Ace, ruff a diamond. Exit with a spade. They need to defend
>carefully to avoid giving up an overtrick.
>
>:contract: 2Cxx
>:Opening lead: KS
>:
>:The two questions are: (1) How defensible is my bidding ...
> 
>You do not say which hand you held.

I was North.  I thought that redoubling would carry the message that
not only did I *really* think 2C would make, but to suggest penalties
if the opponents bid on and partner had some defensive strength.
After partner went down one the redouble was called into question.

--JMike

Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
From: jch@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (jeffrey.c.halle)
Subject: Re: Computer Bridge and the Law
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 14:50:34 GMT

From article <7803@tivoli.UUCP>, by taylor@foraker.tivoli.com (Eric Taylor):
> On related notes, in a computer game, should a player be
> forced to wait after a skip bid warning?
> Should a minimum overall tempo be given to the bidding?
> Should a computer game give warning to a player that
> his partner has significantly varied the tempo and that
> the players next bid will be subject to the 75% rule
> (or 25% or whatever)?

There is a simple solution to this.  (Note: it is essentially what is
done with screens.)

Each player "hears" three calls at once: LHO, partner, and RHO.  This way,
no one really knows who if any hesitated or varied tempo.