HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: What's going on in CO, any definite news?
Date: 6 Nov 92 03:04:15 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Nov6.030415.23376
Reply-To: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

In article <1992Nov5.184048.23367@spdcc.com> rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:
>>> 	We won in Oregon - 34 out of 36 counties!  
>	Actually I think I spoke too soon - someone might correct
>me onthe final votes...  I think we did less than 34 counties
>in the end result...

We lost the majority of counties. 

I think, but I'm not positive, that we lost 20 of the 36 counties. The
big surprise county was the one around Salem, where we were expecting
to win but didn't.

Oregon is so incredibly divided on politics. You should see the map of
Clinton vs. Bush, or AuCoin vs Packwood..
                __
nelson@reed.edu \/   Indifference, the plague that moves throughout this land
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality,co.politics
From: gary@colossus.cgd.ucar.edu (Gary Strand)
Subject: Re: Colorado Amendment 2: The First Fatality
Organization: Climate and Global Dynamics Division/NCAR, Boulder, CO
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 00:17:58 GMT

rm> Randy Murrish
gs> Gary Strand

rm> I'm sorry that everyone does not fit your mold of a model human being, but
    there are individuals in our society that need others for their own
    self-validation.

  As Richard Feynmann said, "What do you care what other people think?" There
  can be times when we are our only friends. I happen to believe that those
  times are the ones in which we learn the most about ourselves.

rm> The simple fact remains that one of the reasons Marty committed suicide 
    was because of the passage of CO-2.  period.

  And what does that have to do with #2? Nothing.

rm> [T]he public needs to realize that passing an amendment to the constitu-
    tion that denies certain rights to homosexuals will have profound impacts 
    in certain peoples lives.

  Just like letting 16 year-olds drive. That doesn't mean it's a bad law.

rm> Society is made up of a variety of individuals, we haven't a person to
    waste.

  Oh, I don't know about that. If Jerry Falwell disappeared tomorrow, I'd shed
  no tears. Same with Phyllis Schafly, Jesse Jackson, Jesse Helms, Howard
  Metzenbaum, and a bunch of others.
--
Gary Strand                      Opinions stated herein are mine alone and are
strandwg@ncar.ucar.edu            not representative of NCAR, UCAR, or the NSF
From: rich@netcom.com (Richard Poppen)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Good news, Good news, Bad news and revenge
Date: 5 Nov 92 07:16:18 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <1992Nov4.213302.12923@gordian.com> mike@gordian.com
(Michael A. Thomas) writes:
>In article <1992Nov4.203245.156@PacBell.COM>, rjwill6@PacBell.COM
>(Rod Williams) writes:
>> I hope that L/G Ski Week in Aspen -- I was planning to attend
>> in '93 :-( -- moves to Lake Tahoe...
>
>  My feelings exactly. Unfortunately, Tom Chatt's mother already 
>booked our tickets :-( :-(

Under the new "simplified" fare rules that US domestic airlines put in
place last April, non-refundable tickets are changeable, for a $25 fee.
For example, if you have a non-refundable ticket from city A to city B
on airline X, for which you paid $N, you can get a ticket from city C to
city D, still on airline X, with it.  If the new fare is less than $N,
you will pay $25.  If the new fare is more than $N, you will pay the
difference plus $25.  Think of the old ticket as a nontransferable,
nonrefundable voucher, for the original price, that costs $25 to redeem
and expires one year from the issue date of the original ticket.

Upshot:  If you can go somewhere else for a comparable price on the same
airline, you can move your trip and lose only $25/person.

Caveats:  You may have to go up a couple of levels of supervisors to
find one that understands the rules adequately.  Some minor airline may
have different rules (in particular, watch out for America West and
Southwest).  I have done this on Delta, USAir, and Alaska.  This is my
best understanding, but I am neither a lawyer nor a travel agent.  You
should check with your airline and/or travel agent before committing
yourself to spend more money in some way.

Send me e-mail if this is not clear.

--Rich, who travels too much
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: latarra@camelot.bradley.edu (Lisa Ehren)
Subject: Re: At least write letters!!
Organization: Bradley University
Date: 11 Nov 92 19:37:55 GMT

>so once again, my plea is:
>        EVEN IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT ELSE TO DO (ie boycott or not)
>                YOU CAN STILL WRITE LETTERS ASKING COLORADO
>                        COMPANIES TO HELP FIGHT #2!

What are the addresses?
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Aspects of Boycott
Date: 13 Nov 92 04:36:44 GMT
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison


In article <1992Nov13.030701.4643@gordian.com>
mike@gordian.com (Michael A.  Thomas) writes:

]  Since Aspen seems to definately be part of the "good" side
]and they sponsor Gay Ski Week, perhaps they, as a gesture,
]could be convinced to donate a percentage of the gate to
]a fund for overturning CO2, and the (hopeful) future repeal
]effort. 
]  Thus, a gay skiier in Colorado could be actually be helping
]the right people by targeting their recreation dollars to
]a cause which helps the No on 2 folks. The entire thing could
]essentially be a benefit.
]  Seem acceptable? 

Perfectly.

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
<>  <>  <> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <>  <>  <>
From: mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Fundamentalists and the clitoris
Date: 12 Nov 92 16:00:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: panix.1992Nov12.160026.83
Organization: (getting there)


Of a harsh but not (IMO) out-of-line description of attitudes
among members of the religious right in the United States toward
female sexuality. sunderl@obvius.stl.dec.com (Mike Sunderland) writes:

 >What a load of dingo's kidneys!!!!
 >If you weren't so bloody defensive you might be able to have enough
 >sense to see how silly it is to make such gross generalisations. I
 >don't know much about the 'religious right' because I don't live in
 >the good ol' USofA, but I do know a lot of people who would share the
 >views that you label "Abstenance based". I have never met anyone who
 >would come even close to the kind of stupidity you quote above. Shit!
 >Of course God created sexual pleasure for both women and men.

Well, don't tell _us_, tell _them_.  You're right-- you don't seem
to know much about the religious right in the good ol' USofA.

An Australian friend of mine recently described a prime time
television show he'd just seen, involving frank discussions of an
assortment of sexual (and cultural) issues involving sexuality, sex
organs, and-- in particular-- "female circumcision."  I found it
hard to believe that it wasn't made up to tease me.

 >Its the age old trick of stiring up hatred and hysteria by painting
 >your "enemy" as blacker than black. Let's make a Manuel Noriega out of
 >all the people who don't agree with us. Let's make them all look like
 >Saddam Hussein.  Yeah! Let's saddamise them all!!
Since you acknowledge that you don't know what you're talking about,
why don't you do a little research first?

I am not trying to tell you that all serious practitioners of
religion in this country who hold conservative views politically
feel this way, but some do.  And the influence that these people
wield, because their attitudes are held to be "religious" and
_therefore_ meritorious, is very strong.  They use it-- they
organize to use it, within and outside of their own communities. 
They influence curriculum choices and textbooks.  They hold great
sway over what images are permissible on television.   They think
it's perfectly fine to try to encode their religious convictions
into our legal system.

 >If you want to be stereo-typed and caricatured then go right ahead
 >and keep on doing what your doing now, because it makes you sound like
 >a raving bloody loony.  If you want to foster some understanding and
 >honesty, then be ready to listen and be listened to. And BTW, isn't
 >there a lot more to life than seeking pleasurable experiences?

Listen to what, and to whom?  To someone who doesn't know what's
happening tell us that these people are less dangerous than we
think?

And what does that "more to life" question have to do with anything?
Isn't there more to life than having freedom and the scope to be
oneself?

Mara [annoyed]
-- 

  Mara Chibnik
  mara@panix.com                Life is too important to be taken seriously.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: lovegod@wam.umd.edu (Donald Andrew Agarrat)
Subject: Re: Possible legal tactic
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 03:48:40 GMT

In article <1deq80INN6ue@im4u.cs.utexas.edu>  
osborn@cs.utexas.edu (John Howard Osborn) writes:
} Does Spacely have to prove that Jetson is gay, in order to 
} fire him?
} 
} Does Jetson have to prove that he is heterosexual, in order to
} sue Spacely?
} 
} Is Spacely's perception of Jetson being gay sufficient for 
} Jetson to lose employment protection?

Only if Spacely finds out that George is having an affair with  
me, Donald BootyBot.  *grin*

One day, this world will not be as fucked up.  I can't wait ...  
I just had a damn girlfriend that moved to Colorado!  DAMN!  

My boss just bought me a new Hewlett-Packard LaserJet 4.

*rips up his tickets to Colorado*
Donald
Newsgroups: soc.motss,talk.religion.misc,sci.skeptic
From: schumach@convex.com (Richard A. Schumacher)
Subject: Re: Genetic oversimplification of homosexuality.
Organization: CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, Tx., USA
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 18:20:12 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

No, not "fie on Occam", but "fie on misunderstandings of Occam".
To paraphrase Shakespeare, "there is far more to evolution 
than is dreamt of in your philosophy". 
The original poster should look for articles on the evolution
of altruism and cooperation. Homosexuality is quite plausible
as a mechanism to create non-breeding helpers for their breeding
relatives; maiden aunts and bachelor uncles, if you will.

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Robertson wins one in Iowa [Homophobia as a weapon of sexism]
Date: 5 Nov 1992 17:28:55 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <1992Nov6.000728.8134@netcom.com> 
solovay@netcom.com (Andrew Solovay) writes:
> In article <9211051957.AA15849@client.its.rpi.edu>
> buckmr@rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire) writes:
> >        The amendment read: ``Neither the state nor any of its political
> >subdivisions shall, on the basis of gender, deny or restrict the
> >equality of rights under the law.''
>
> Well, thank heaven they voted it down! It should have said "on
> the basis of *sex*." Words have gender. People have sex.

From Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary (1973):

   gender  1: SEX <black divinities of the feminine ~ --Charles
              Dickens>
           2a: a subclass within a grammatical class [etc. etc.]

Arne

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: kanga.caltech.edu!magney (Michael Agney)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Colorado tactics
Date: 5 Nov 1992 20:50:04 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
NNTP-Posting-Host: roo.caltech.edu

Allow me to introduce myself.  Though I'm not motss, I am willing to keep
my mind open.

Some of the tactics discussed here as means of getting Colorado to see
what's wrong with Amendment 2 (i.e. trying to demolish the economy by
sending for thousands of free catalogs, calling 800 numbers, etc.) are
likely to backfire with the general public.  I know that, were I not the
rational being (:-) that I am, I would be somewhat frightened by a
full-barrel attack on my state just because "a bunch of faggots" (not my
opinion, repeat, NOT MY OPINION) were a little displeased by the results
of a referendum.

Education is better (though it won't solve the problem of religiously
motivated gay bashers).  Actually, if a person is sufficiently open
minded, they can go against their cultural training (I know my parents
do not support gay rights); but then, it's the closed-minded people one
has to worry about anyway.

--
/---------------------------------------------------------\
| Michael Agney          | "Well, if we were to build a   |
|                        |           giant badger..."     |
|                        |    - Monty Python and the      |
| magney@cco.caltech.edu |      search for the Holy Grail |
\---------------------------------------------------------/
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: psp@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (P.S. Powledge)
Subject: Re: Twice Fucked (Colorado gays)
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories, Holmdel, NJ
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 17:39:52 GMT
Keywords: idiocy, sexism

In article <1992Nov10.175316.9292@walter.bellcore.com> dfs@lestat.bellcore.com (Deborah Swayne) writes:
>solovay@netcom.com (Andrew M. Solovay) writes:
>|> Meow! Someone got up on the wrong side of life this morning. You
>|> ought to give some kind of warning to these postings; you know,
>|> something like "Summary: Attitude Queen on the rag... Proceed
>|> with caution". (How's that for flamebait?)
>Excellent.  Do you use anti-woman expressions whenever you want to
>insult a man, or do you reserve them for insulting gay men?

Absolutely. Back to the how-to-get-women-to-post-here-thread: personally,
I don't think that male posters here are particularly obliged to increase 
the number of women-oriented postings in this newsgroup, and I don't get 
bent out of shape about mutating threads. But what *really* pisses me off 
is to see this women-hating drivel posted here time and time again. And 
I don't mean postings by hostile 'phobes like ClayMation -- you expect 
that sort of stuff from them -- I mean by men who are claiming to be part 
of this community. 
-- 
				||| Polly Powledge
				||| Internet: P.S.Powledge@ATT.COM
				||| Uucp:     att!hrmso!psp
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: The Hate Gene (was Re: Social Democracy)
Date: 9 Nov 92 04:12:32 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Nov9.041232.17650
Reply-To: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

In article <19921108173148ECL4JN2@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU> ECL4JN2@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (Jack B. Nimble) writes:
>>Property makes ethics unthinkable.
>To the contrary, the lack of property makes ethics impossible.

"Property is liberty
 Property is theft
 Property is impossible"

                __
nelson@reed.edu \/                   Finger nelson@reed.edu for my public key
From: misek@solbourne.com (Steve Misek)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Boycott less than pointless -- Boulder Agrees
Date: 11 Nov 1992 11:31:30 -0700
Organization: Solbourne Computer, Inc., Longmont, CO  USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: marvin-gw.solbourne.com


 :: 
 :: I know our brothers and sisters in Colorado won't hold it against us.
 :: Except for the ones who hate themselves like you do.
 :: 

#ifdef	 Mike Batchelor
	Except for the ones who are purple, and green, and don't think like
	I do...  Please watch what you write.
#endif

There is a major meeting planned in Boulder for Thursday night to bring 
local folk up to date.  I understand that mixed messages are currently coming
out of Colorado... some people say Boycott, some say please don't.  Last night
Boulder City council unanimously voted to join the Denver/Aspen Lawsuit.

Per discussions with local folk, contributions to EPOC are appreciated; 
however contributions to Lambda Legal - Colorado Initiative are REALLY
needed.

I have tracked down the source of the rumours concerning the tshirt containing
"don't shoot I'm a black bear" over a pink triangle.  They are being printed
by an organization known as:
	The Boulder Queer Collective:	303-441-7806
I will be meeting with them on Thursday evening to work out the best way to
make these T-shirts available to the net; and will be posting prices, how
to order, etc, Monday morning.

I will be off the net from Thursday noon till Monday morning as we attempt
to move to our new building this weekend...  the actual move date is Friday,
the 13th...

steve misek
misek@solbourne.com
misek@parcplace.com
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton)
Subject: Clinton talks to doctor about AIDS
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 06:25:58 GMT

Subject: CDC Summary 11/9/92
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 92 07:21:33 PST
Newsgroups: sci.med.aids

                          AIDS Daily Summary
                          November 9, 1992 
 The Centers for Disease Control (CDC) National AIDS Clearinghouse makes
available the following information as a public service only.  Providing this
information does not constitute endorsement by the CDC, the CDC Clearinghouse,
or any other organization.  Reproduction  of this text is encouraged; however,
copies may not be sold.  Copyright 1992, Information, Inc., Bethesda, MD 
************************************************************************

"HIV-Positive Doctor Had Long Talk With Clinton About AIDS" United Press
International (11/06/92)
     Fort Worth, Texas -- An HIV-positive AIDS specialist said she only 
expected to receive a handshake from president-elect Bill Clinton when a
staffer asked her to meet with the presidential candidate in August.  Patti
Wetzel said she was shocked when she was ushered into a private room with
Clinton, where the Arkansas governor got down to business and asked, "Now
Patti, what's the answer to your question about AIDS?"  Wetzel, who
contracted HIV from a tainted needle stick 14 months ago, said she and
Clinton had a 20-minute "heart-to-heart" talk in which she recommended 
strategies to secure funding for AIDS education, prevention, and research. 
The discussion arose after Wetzel spoke up during a televised town hall-type
meeting held Aug. 25. During the telecast, Wetzel identified herself as a
person with AIDS and asked Clinton how he would regulate money to fight the
disease.  Subsequently, Clinton told Wetzel off-camera that he "had friends
that had AIDS; he had buried friends with AIDS," said Wetzel.  She added, "He
was really aware of what the disease was like and was very, very
sympathetic."  She said that Clinton appears to be dedicated to fighting the
epidemic.  Wetzel also stressed to Clinton when she spoke with him in August
that the spread of HIV can be controlled through education.


-- 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Hamilton   jfh@netcom.com   P. O. Box 281107   SF, CA   94128-1107
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality,co.politics
From: gary@isis.cgd.ucar.edu (Gary Strand)
Subject: Re: Colorado Amendment 2: The First Fatality
Organization: Climate and Global Dynamics Division/NCAR, Boulder, CO
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 14:45:07 GMT

ck> Charles Kincy
gs> Gary Strand

ck> Well, see, it would be nice to be able to extend FOA privledges to every-
    one.

  That's what the rule of law is all about. The same law for everyone. 

ck> But, unfortunately, a few people cannot handle the responsibility of this
    privilege. 

  It's not a "privilege", it's a right. And, if it's only a "few people", why
  punish the rest of us along with them?

ck> So, we have to create "protected minorities" in order to keep people from
    being steamrolled by those who abuse their FOA privs.  I don't like it any
    more than you do, but it's necessary.

  Is it, *really*? Is it worth the tension created between the non-protected
  groups and the "protected" groups? Also, there's a difference between David
  Duke (say) and myself, but to anti-FOA legislation, we're exactly the same.
  Why should *I* be punished for *his* moral beliefs?

ck> Really, what right do you have to fire someone who is bi or gay?

  The same right a bi or gay person has to fire a straight.

ck> What does that have to do with their work performance?  Or even their per-
    sonality? 

  Nothing with either.

gs> Also, there's more than the legal system for seeking recourse. The boycott
    you're promoting is one example. I have no problem with it, even though I
    voted against #2.

ck> Well, at least you have some redeeming qualities.  

  I'm *so glad* I have your approval.

ck> Most teens commit suicide due to extreme emotional trauma.  

  "Extreme" from their point of view, let's remember. Teens commit suicide for
  reasons that others don't even consider worth a single sniffle.

ck> I think the point Melinda was making was that 30% of the time, this trauma
    was caused by society's persecution of homosexuals.  

  I don't think the reasoning is so direct.

ck> If you were an emotionally troubled teen, faced with sure and certain per-
    secution for the rest of your life, suicide would be an attractive alter-
    native.

  I wouldn't call persecution for being gay "sure and certain".

gs> In any case, I don't recall many blacks committing suicide because of the
    racism they suffered, and it's a lot easier to bash blacks than it is to
    bash gays.

ck> Could you elucidate?  It sounds like you're saying that it's easier for
    *you* to bash blacks than to bash gays.  And I just don't want to believe
    that.

  And *please* don't! The point was that who is and isn't black is easily de-
  termined by visual inspection, who is and isn't gay is not. That's the whole
  meaning of what I was saying.

--
Gary Strand                      Opinions stated herein are mine alone and are
strandwg@ncar.ucar.edu            not representative of NCAR, UCAR, or the NSF
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: pc@linus.mitre.org (Penny Chase)
Subject: Re: News From the Front -- Boulder
Organization: Research Computer Facility, The MITRE Corporation, Bedford MA
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 01:41:33 GMT

In article <1dc98gINN2er@marvin.solbourne.com> misek@solbourne.com
(Steve Misek) writes:

   As expected, various fundraising activities have already begun to raise money
   to fuel the legal fight [against heinous Amendment 2]

Could Colorado motssers let the rest of us know where to send money to
help.
		
	Penny (who felt really happy about the election until she
	       heard about Amendment 2)
--
UUCP:  { ... }!linus!pc 
INTERNET:  pc@mitre.org
From: squires@mozzarella.cs.wisc.edu (Charles Squires)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Marching on Washington and Protesting Bigotry
Date: 9 Nov 92 21:47:10 GMT
Organization: U of Wisconsin Madison - Computer Sciences

lmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Laurie Mann) writes:

>I think the events in Colorado makes it all the more important
>for any of us who CAN go to the march in Washington this spring
>SHOULD go.  Can you imagine the effect of 300,000 people marching
>in Washington, carrying signs that say "Shame, Colorado!"?

Only 300,000!?  I think we're looking at over a million, probably.

>I don't remember the details of the Washington march.  It's suppsed
>to be in late April, right?  What plans are there?

Yes.

If anyone could post info, I would appreciate it.  I am getting to
work organizing a Madison, WI contingent.  I just scrounged up
several thousand dollars to subsidize travel.  This is getting fun!

Charlie
-- 
-  Charles S. Squires, Jr.  ---------------------------------------------
   Computer Sciences Department, University of Wisconsin- Madison
   1210 W Dayton St, Madison, WI 53706; squires@mozzarella.cs.wisc.edu
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.motss