From: bdm@cs.anu.edu.au (Brendan McKay)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: israel & hamas
Date: 28 Dec 1992 06:39:32 GMT
Organization: Australian National University
Distribution: world
Reply-To: bdm@cs.anu.edu.au
NNTP-Posting-Host: 150.203.23.70

In article 19859@nysernet.org, astein@nysernet.org (Alan Stein) writes:
>Center for Policy Research <cpr@igc.apc.org> writes:

>>I don't see the reason why Palestinians should not demand the
>>demilitarization of Israel, ...

>Perhaps because it was Israel which was attacked instantly upon its
>reestablishment, by surrounding states with a stated goal of totally
>destroying it, not the other way around?

>>As much as I know,Israel has expelled hundreds of thousands of 
>>Palestinians from their land, and not the other way round.

>Shows how much you know.  Actually, how little.

That's funny: Stein vs CPR. The clash of the intellectual giants!

>Whatever Arabs left Israel during the '48 War, with very few
>exceptions, left of their own free will in response to pleas from the
>invaders to get out of the way to make the destruction of Israel
>easier.  They voluntarily gave up their homes, despite the pleas of
>the Jews that they remain, expecting to return in a few days to not
>only reclaim their homes, but the homes of their dead Jewish
>neighbors.

Yeah, yeah, we already know you believe that stuff.  You probably
believe in the tooth fairy too; the evidence is stronger after all.
It proves nothing, but here's a little quote for you:

   "I don't suggest that we should trample on others' rights, but 
   one must call a spade a spade: Zionism and rights don't always go
   hand-in-hand.  The very establishment of this state is an affront
   to the Arabs' rights.  Arabs lived in Jaffa.  They didn't leave;
   they were expelled.  We went into the villages and said 'Get out.'
   And they got out.  Yes, it's important for me and others that 
   this state be a democratic one, but you still have to consider
   the difference between ourselves and the other countries and
   remember that democracy is not an end in itself but rather an
   instrument.  Zionism takes precedence over everything."
   -- Limor Linyat, member of the Likud Central Committee,
      Tikkun, Sep/Oct 1991, p14.

You see, practically everyone knows what really happenned in 1948.
The old mythology, created more for the US market than anything,
still has its blind adherents though, doesn't it Alan? 

>When their plans backfired, they then demanded that Israel do what no
>nation in the history of the world has ever done, welcome back a group
>of people who voluntarily left the country to aid in its destruction.

>On the other hand, hundreds of thousands of Jews were indeed expelled,
>involuntarily, from their homes in surrounding Arab countries, with

How sad to see someone so ignorant of history.

>their life savings and homes confiscated.

>Fortunately for them, Israel was willing, indeed eager, to welcome
>them back home.

>Had the Arabs been half as willing to welcome their brethren into
>their homes, there would never have been a refugee problem.

Both Syria and Iraq made offers to take large numbers of Palestinian
refugees under various conditions.  Jordan made them citizens.  Your
stolid determination to remain ignorant is a marvel.

>Alan H. Stein   -----  AJIN   -----  astein@israel.nysernet.org

Brendan.


Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:24614 soc.culture.greek:12017 soc.culture.europe:10990 soc.history:10518