HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: O.B.Schou@lut.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Oil Tanker Grounding
Reply-To: O.B.Schou@lut.ac.uk (OBSchou)
Organization: Loughborough University, UK.
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 93 16:54:48 GMT

In article <1993Jan7.202526.6049@mprgate.mpr.ca> kell@mprgate.mpr.ca (Dave Kell) writes:
>In article <ZPOPE.93Jan7143856@sloop.osf.org>, zpope@osf.org (William Pope) writes:
>|> 
>|> In this case the ship had lost engine power.  The crew was already off by
>|> the time the ship hit the rocks.  I don't have charts of the area but from
>|> what I've understood so far the ship was in a channel 22 miles wide between
>|> the Shetlands and Scotland in some very nasty weather.  Don't know how or
>|> why it lost power.  
>|> 
>
>One report I heard said that they got sea water in the fuel lines.  I
>don't know how they managed that.  I would have thought that a competent
>engine room crew could handle this type of problem pretty efficiently.

A chap at the evening class I attend said yesterday there was something
fishy about the whole lot.  He was an engineer in a tanker in his
former life, and explained that these ships get their fuel from the
crude they are carrying.  Then there are all sorts of kit that can
fileter off all the crud and ligether elements.  Then there is specific
equipment to get rid of water.

Finally, there are two tanks for fuel: one in use supplying a boiler
that raises steam to power a turbine, the sencond is being filled with
"fresh" fuel.  the tanks hold in the order of 150 tonnes of fuel. 

These ships are built with the ability to clean up the "crude" oil
sufficiently for powering the vessel, and can re-clean this fule as
many times as they want to.

Are there any merchant navy engineers willing to comment??

Bertil.

Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: scott@bell.b17a.ingr.com (Scott Bell)
Subject: Re: BOAT/US and rec.boats
Keywords: Internet connection available?
Organization: Intergraph
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 14:01:01 GMT

In article <1993Jan5.211706.6679@porthos.cc.bellcore.com>, jadams@vixen.cc.bellcore.com (adams,john) writes:
|> Fellow netters,
|> Having just received the BOAT/US Reports in the snail mail, the thought occurred
|> to me that BOAT/US should directly participate in the rec.boats newsgroup.
|> If this subject has already been discussed and dismissed, I apologize.  If not, and
|> others feel that BOAT/US should at least monitor rec.boats via internet (or some
|> other means), I would be happy to raise this point with them in person when I 
|> visit the New Yawk Boat Show next weekend. 

    That would be great, but I think you pay a membership/subscription fee to
    join BOAT/US - don't you?? The BOAT/US guys would lose bucks giving free info
    on the net, in that case( xmas is over :) ). 
|> -- 
|> Jack (John) Adams			| Bellcore NVC 2Z-220
|> (908) 758-5372 {Voice}			| (908) 758-4389 {Facsimile}
|> jadams@vixen.cc.bellcore.com			| kahuna@attmail.com
 
Scott
_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-
| Scott Bell                               |" Though our health we drank  | 
| Intergraph Corp. - Mapping Sciences Div. |  a thousand times,           | 
| M/S IW17A2  Huntsville, AL  35894-0001   |  It's time to ramble on."    | 
| scott@bell.b17a.ingr.com   (Internet)    |                              | 
| 205-730-1776   #include <std_disclaim.h> |.guitarsboatsbikesweightsrock.| 
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From: thatchh@hplsla.hp.com (Thatch Harvey)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 18:53:13 GMT
Subject: Re: Water System
Organization: HP Lake Stevens, WA
Newsgroups: rec.boats





       It sounds like the inlet check valve in the pump is leaking a little.
My tooth belt driven Jabsco cycled occasionally also, but only about once
in an hour or two.  Adding an accumulator tank increased the time costant to
almost infinity.  I believe those check valves are replaceable.

                         Thatch Harvey


    %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
    % Thatch Harvey                                                    %
    % uucp: (no longer valid)            domain: thatchh@hplsla.hp.com %
    % Hewlett-Packard              Lake Stevens Instrument Division    %
    % Lake Stevens, WA                                                 %
    % (206) 335-2083            31' Baunsgard   1972 twin engine       %
    %      flying bridge, lapstrake, wood cruiser "ENDLESS LIST"       %
    %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%





Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: dbk@phx.mcd.mot.com (Dave Kinzer)
Subject: Re: New AC Rules
Reply-To: teroach!dbk@phx.mcd.mot.com (Dave Kinzer)
Organization: Motorola Analog Integrated Circuits Division
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 15:30:25 GMT


In <19490.2b48983b@ecs.umass.edu> jhwelch@ecs.umass.edu writes:

>How about reimposing the requirement that all vessels travel to
>the race course on their own bottoms?  That would mean a real
>need for seaworthiness, and focus R&D on innovations more useful
>to *real* sailboats. :-)


   There are already racing series (i.e. round the world races) that focus
on this need.  They don't seem to be doing any better at generating these
innovations.

-Dave
From: shk@techsoar.WLK.COM (Nick Leonard)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Spring-Summer Sailing Trips Planned
Date: 6 Jan 93 15:48:21 GMT
Organization: Techsoar Company, Pipe Creek, TX


  After several years of preparations, I am starting a long term trip  with
a solo Transatlantic starting in late May-early June (WX window) with the
route as follows:  Montauk-Bermuda-Azores-then, depending on a $1.00 bet
or coin flip whilst under the influence at Cafe Sport....Gibraltar or
Plymouth. If Gib then Mallorca, if Plymouth then up on the hard at mill
basin.
         Some chap wrote in that he had a long list of things to do...I
now make an unconditional offer that we trade lists...sight unseen....!!
My list is big enough that it is tacked to the wall!  
        Anyhow, I present this so that netlanders can know that there are
people out there who do these sorts of trips. I'd guess it is fair to say
that we don't like publicity nor care for the opinions of casual observers,
and like other lone types we plan and execute our adventures quietly and
without fanfare.
 Here's wishing you all a pleasant and fulfilling sailing season!
NicAL
-- 
Nick Leonard            shk@techsoar.WLK.COM
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: www@Ingres.COM (Bill White)
Subject: Tradewinds Charter: Any Experiences?
Reply-To: www@Ingres.COM (Bill White)
Organization: Ingres, an Ask Company, Alameda CA 94501
Distribution: usa
Date: 9 Jan 93 16:40:48 GMT

This is slightly related to the "planning a cruise" thread: Some friends
and I are considering a charter out of St Lucia in late June.  I wrote to
Moorings a while back and got their packet with rates, boats available,
etc., but now I've received a similar packet from Tradewinds.  The rates
are a bit cheaper; does anyone know:

1. Is Moorings worth the extra money?  In many cases, they're offering the
   same boats.

2. Is Tradewinds a good outfit?  They advertise in Cruising World magazine
   every month, so I know they're at least well established.

3. Are these two companies related?  Many of the Tradewinds boats are
   Moorings models (e.g., Moorings 432).

If you've chartered in this area with either of these companies, I'd appreciate
hearing of your experiences, good or bad.

Thanks!
Bill White

Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: larry@pdn.paradyne.com (Larry Swift)
Subject: Re: Who's planning a cruise? Where and When?
Organization: AT&T Paradyne, Largo, Florida
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 12:54:18 GMT

In article <1id472INNhcn@cat.cis.Brown.EDU> jfh@cs.brown.edu (John F. Hughes) writes:
>Now a question for others: suppose you are making 
>a 40 hour passage with a crew
>of 4 or 5. How do you arrange your watch schedule. 

With 4, I use two per 3 hour watch, making sure to distribute
sailing skills over both watch.

>What time of day or night do
>you choose to depart (if you can choose)? 

Leaving for less familiar destinations:  I plan to arrive
around 10 AM.  If I'm early (pre-dawn) I lay offshore til
sunrise; if late, I've still got plenty of sunlight to
pick my way through hazards.

Returning home:  since it doesn't matter when I arrive
(because I know the waters), I just make sure I leave
in plenty of time to reach open water before dark.

Larry Swift                     larry@pdn.paradyne.com
AT&T Paradyne, LG-132           Phone: (813) 530-8605
8545 - 126th Avenue, North
Largo, FL, 34649-2826           She's old and she's creaky, but she holds!

Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: scott@bell.b17a.ingr.com (Scott Bell)
Subject: Re: Oil Tanker Grounding
Organization: Intergraph
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 20:49:51 GMT

In article <1993Jan7.202526.6049@mprgate.mpr.ca>, kell@mprgate.mpr.ca (Dave Kell) writes:
|> In article <ZPOPE.93Jan7143856@sloop.osf.org>, zpope@osf.org (William Pope) writes:
|> |> 
|> |> In this case the ship had lost engine power.  The crew was already off by
|> |> the time the ship hit the rocks.  I don't have charts of the area but from
|> |> what I've understood so far the ship was in a channel 22 miles wide between
|> |> the Shetlands and Scotland in some very nasty weather.  Don't know how or
|> |> why it lost power.  
|> |> 
|> 
|> One report I heard said that they got sea water in the fuel lines.  I
|> don't know how they managed that.  I would have thought that a competent
|> engine room crew could handle this type of problem pretty efficiently.
|> 
|> The ship was en route to Canada from the North Sea.  Her route took her 
|> between the northern Scottish coast and the Shetland Islands.
|> 
|> It seems quite poor judgement to take the ship through this channel in
|> force 12 conditions, ...
    
     < snip, snip, snip >
|> 
|> Her sistership was detained yesterday in Quebec and there were some comments
|> that the crew appeared to be rather poorly trained.
                                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

   No doubt about that - I think the captain of this vessel also falls into
   the same category. Did he graduate from the Joseph Hazelwood school of
   Fearless Seamanship? :(

|> 
|> dK
|> ===========================================================================
|> Dave Kell   (604) 293-5753                 kell@mowgli.mpr.ca
|> MPR Teltech Ltd.                           mprgate.mpr.ca!kell@uunet.uu.net

Scott
_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-
| Scott Bell                               |"Justice without force is     | 
| Intergraph Corp. - Mapping Sciences Div. | impotent."  - Pascal         | 
| scott@bell.b17a.ingr.com   (Internet)    |"This is home - this is Mean  | 
| 205-730-1776   #include <std_disclaim.h> | Street"     - Van Halen      | 
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From: ercn72@festival.ed.ac.uk (R.J.Hare)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Oil Tanker Grounding
Date: 11 Jan 93 10:34:08 GMT

For what it's worth, the winds around the wrecked tanker Braer have so far not
been hurricane force - so far. Wind strengths are now hurricane force (F12 as
was correctly stated in a previous post) and a depression which equals the
lowest ever previously recorded is moving past somewhere to the north of the
Shetlands. It is likely that salvage crews will be unable to approach the
wreck till Wednesday.

Roger Hare.
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: andrewm@bmers30.bnr.ca (Andrew Moizer)
Subject: Re: Downside of sailboat sitting on bottom??
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Ottawa, Canada
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 93 20:09:12 GMT

I thought I would add a little to this.  I was "raised" on sailing in
the Thames Estuary.  We had a 16' Yaching Monthly Senior with twin
bilge keels.  For several years she was kept on a "half tide" mooring.

My recollections (this is 25+ years ago, I was 4-7 yrs old I guess)
were that this meant that there was either a rush to "get off" or not
depending on the tide.  I have a lot of fond memories of this period so
it can't have been too stressful.

Having a boat that would dry out safely was an absolute requirement.  I also
realize now that we spent a great deal of time aground.  Standard practice
would be to dry out at various sandy spots we had found.  Us kids could then
play for a couple of hours in the sand etc. while mum and dad got some
peace and quiet ( I guess).

Shoal draft and easy drying out were reasons that attracted us (our entire
family now) to multihulls.  I now have a 34' Wharram Cat and really enjoy the 
shoal draft ... there is always a place to anchor.  Unfortunately
the tides on Lake Ontario where we sail are rather non-existant so I
am unable to use the dry out on a sandbank with our two boys.  We just
got launched late last year so I will (no doubt) be further developing
cruising with kids experience next summer.

In summary, bilge keels, half tide moorings, shoal draft can work well.

regards
    Andrew



--

Andrew Moizer andrewm@bnr.ca  Bell-Northern Research, Ottawa. 613 765 2073
Standard disclaimers apply                         ("Use the source Luke")
From: alany@tekig5.pen.tek.com (Alan Yelvington)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Inverter rules of thumb
Date: 4 Jan 93 20:00:00 GMT

I didn't read all of the rhetoric on inverters, but I thought
I'd put in some notes.

I used to sell inverters for remote home power systems, and
these are the rules that I used to make sure that an installation
would be successful:

The total battery storage should be greater than four times the
maximum power draw.  Battery amp/hour capacity = peak power/battery voltage
X 4 

Charging current should not exceed 30X the battery rack capacity.

eie. a 100 Ah battery should not be recharged at greater than 30 amps

Do not discharge the battery rack to less than 70% of capacity if you are
using lead-acid cells.  This will prevent sulfation and extend the batteries
a great deal.

ie. if you want to use 1000 watts for one hour a day (80 Ah),then you
should have at least 320 Ah of storage. 

SO>>>  batteries should be 4X maximum draw
	  and/or           4X daily consumption

	  Finally, use at least OO welding cable with no more than
	  six feet between the batteries and inverter.  OOOO cable
	  if the run is up to eight feet.

I highly recommend the Trace inverters with the standby option.  This
provides for automatic recharging and transfer to shore power when you
hook up.

al

Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: tarkkone@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Lauri Tarkkonen)
Subject: Re: Who's planning a cruise? Where and When?
Organization: University of Helsinki
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 10:51:51 GMT

In <1id472INNhcn@cat.cis.Brown.EDU> jfh@cs.brown.edu (John F. Hughes) writes:

>Now a question for others: suppose you are making a 40 hour passage with a crew
>of 4 or 5. How do you arrange your watch schedule. What time of day or night do
>you choose to depart (if you can choose)? 

>-John

For a trip of about 40 hours we just simply make it two hour watches,
rotating through the crew. If there is only two of us there will of
course be only one on the deck, but if the situation demands the one
on the deck can ask the other one to come earlier upp to help. If there
are four or more then if the situation demands there might be two per-
sons on the deck, one with more experience and the other with less.
Saometimes we have had a variant, where the watch is two hours, but
we change the person every hour, so that when you come upp there will
be one of the old watch to be with you for one hour etc. But this
of course with more than two person aboard.

We plot our position on the chart (1:200,000 as the of shore charts
are in the Balticum) and the outcoing crew is doing it, so he/she
knows where the boat is and where it is going.

During the night the it is compulsory to be hooked on the boat while
alone on the deck.

On the daytime, the hours are counting, but most of the time nobody
is sleeping, but if you want to sleep during the daytime, you usually
use your off hours. 

This system is maybe not the most efficient, if we are doing longer 
trips we have to design more complicated systems. With two persons
this system does not really give you enough sleep, at least after
we get to our destination, almost everybody is tend to sleep for
12 hours, but with 3 or more persons it is working wery well. 

there is a tendecy to flex the system, depending on the situation,
weather, the condition of the crew, someone might do two watches and
someone might skip one or half a watch etc. It seems to be almost
impossible to get the off watch people to go to sleep during their
first off watch. If the trip is longer, say a week or more, I believe
that this is no problem, but in a trip of around forty hours, there
is of course much more possibilities to stretch teh performance of
the best sailors.

- Lauri Tarkkonen
From: hanners@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Robert Hanners)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Hudson -> Erie, etc. (was: Who's planning a cruise? Where and When?)
Date: 6 Jan 93 19:16:08 GMT
Reply-To: hanners@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Robert Hanners)
Distribution: na
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Annapolis, MD

In rec.boats, dean@MorningStar.Com (Dean Schell) writes:
>>In article <1993Jan6.001931.23647@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> rpw@uvacs.cs.
>>Virginia.EDU (Ray Wagner) writes:
>>>Speaking of crusing, if anybody has done the Hudson River,
>>>Erie Canal, Great Lakes, Ohio River, Mississipi and Ten-Tom,
>>>I'd like to have a chat. We'd like to do that one, but I
>>>think I might have to carry it from Erie PA to the Ohio...
>
>However, I seem to recall reading somewhere that the Chicago River
>connects to the Illinois River which connects to the Mississippi and
>thence to the Gulf.  Although once again that route may be fit only for
>a canoe.  Anybody know for sure?

Yes, this is good for relatively large, crud resistant boat hulls.
I suggested this route to Ray.  Many make this loop-- my next door neighbor
for one.  Seems, however, that the Ohio R. is paramount to Ray's itinerary.

My neighbor did it once in his 32' sailboat, nows plans to repeat it
this spring in a 35' trawler.  Says a bit of planning (where to go,
where to stop, what to see, etc.) made this trip as rewarding as any
he's taken.

-- Bob

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert J. Hanners         "My comments; only mine."          *DIASTOLE* 676673
CD, NSWC, Annapolis, MD                              hanners@oasys.dt.navy.mil
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: gerard@progress.COM (Gerard Bras)
Subject: Re: Who's planning a cruise? Where and When?
Organization: Progress Software Corp.
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 17:14:10 GMT

floydb@rpi.edu writes:

>Other than the "Bermuda" trip I haven't read any other 
>postings about future cruises.

>Is anyone planning a cruise/trip for this spring or summer?

>Where are you going? What are you doing to get ready? Who is
>going along with you?

Other than a 1 week Florida Bay charter this winter nothing is definite yet.
For the past few years we've gone to Maine every August and I suspect we'll do it
again this year.  The annual Maine cruise is three weeks so there is a lot of
prep that goes into it although by August the boat is straight and the only thing
we need to take care of is logistics.  The worst part is getting someone to take
care of the house and animals for weeks at a stretch.  This year we intend to be
a little more laid back covering distance and will probably just hang around
Penobscot Bay and Mount Desert I.

We tend to keep our boat in cruising trim from May to November so that whenever
we feel like it we can twist off for the weekend and disappear.  The last few years
we've streched the season by taking the boat south and weekend cruising the
Vineyard/Block/Narragansett area.  This has turned out to be the some of the nicest
cruising of the year.  After Labor Day it's deserted and September is lovely in New
England.  By mid-October though it gets to be storm season and we bring the boat back
home. 

In general the crew is my wife and I.  We find that between the two of us we can
manage pretty much anything.  Being at sea for more than overnight can get grueling
but I suspect we just need more time to adapt since the longest we've gone is around
two days straight sailing.  The hardest part is making sure to get enough sleep
during the day so that the night watches can be stood diligently.  
 
The Florida charter is a new experience.  We're renting a 34' Sharpie which draws
16" with the leeboards up, ideal for the shallow water around the 'glades.
Other than obtaining charts the major prep effort will involve planning a rough 
itinerary, packing the essentials and the toys, and food shopping once
we arrive.  The boat doesn't come equipped with any electronics (other than VHF)
and I'll not bring any.  We plan on relying on DR and simple coastal piloting
to get around.  Given that visibility tends to be good, distances small and
hazards few this should present no major difficulties.  In any case we'll just
daysail around.  Food will probably run to veggies, fruits and grain products
since there's only an icebox aboard and I don't want to spend much time in 
marinas just for ice.  

cheers,
gerard
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: scoyle@crayfish.ncsa.uiuc.edu (Scott Coyle)
Subject: Chicago Boat Show..
Reply-To: scoyle@ncsa.uiuc.edu
Followup-To: scoyle@ncsa.uiuc.edu
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 22:29:44 GMT

Sure would like to make it to Atlantic City Boat Show.. sigh..
I did happen to make it to the show in Chicago only to find out it
was an "RV" and boat show..

Some comments:

Laid eyes on Beneteau's First 210... Nice looking boat.. Interior seemed a
bit impractical though... Wash basin was just a tupperware tub (no plumbing)..
Looks fast anyway.. Love the twin rudders.. I would certainly accept it if
one was left in my driveway.. They wanted about 2k for the trailer.. Isn't
that rather steep?? (not EZ loader)..

I saw roller-reefing on a 14' foot dinghy (Omega I think).. What's the
point??  Am I just missing out on something??

I thought the Catalina 22 was extremely practical for a pocket cruiser.. I
became very interested in this boat.. Any one got a good used one for
sale??  I know there's a great deal of these out there so any comments on
this boat would be appreciated..

There was Hunter's 23.5' water ballast boat..  It would seem to me that 
water ballast would inhibit speed when beating into the wind.. i.e. no real
righting moment until heeled over to a great degree..  I saw a McGregor 26,
one day, with reefed main, heeling over much more than other boats flying
full main (maybe 12 - 15 knot winds).. I guess the attraction is ease of
trailering a much lighter boat..

The all time kicker!!  A $2500 inner tube with an outboard called a
"Toobie" or something like that..  Outfit that with radar, VHF, GPS, etc.
and head out to sea!! (maybe an electric windlass, too)..

Would have loved to have seen more 20' - 25' sailboats for myself.. nada..

Scott Coyle - scoyle@ncsa.uiuc.edu       FS #409
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: dbk@phx.mcd.mot.com (Dave Kinzer)
Subject: Re: Coast Guard Boating Tax, NOT!
Summary: CG Aux
Reply-To: teroach!dbk@phx.mcd.mot.com (Dave Kinzer)
Organization: Motorola Analog Integrated Circuits Division
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 17:31:25 GMT

 In article <1993Jan5.141756.29474@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> jadams@vixen.cc.bellcore.com (adams,john) writes:
  
>>	The Coast Guard can board you whenever they want in US coastal 
>>Does the Coast Guard Auxiliary have the same privileges? 
>Based on what I have read, no.  The CG Auxiliary *assists* other...

Unless, of course, they have a real CG officer on board, in which case
they reflag the vessel with the CG flag (instead of the CG aux flag), and
then they have all the rights and privileges of a real CG vessel.
   
(As explained to me by a CG Aux member while I was taking the safe boating
class.  Any Auxiliary members are invited to correct me.)

It is a way for the Coast Guard to increase their small craft fleet for
short term operations.  

-Dave


Newsgroups: rec.boats