HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history,soc.culture.soviet
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: Still not addressing the original points made, "Dippold".
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 92 19:38:50 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <rdippold.725613095@cancun> rdippold@cancun.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold) writes:

>Why is everyone thinking some sort of AI is involved when natural
>stupidity is more than adequate to account for it?  Think of it...

Is it really your intent to make such a statement? Why not read
before you drivel?

Source: Bilal N. Simsir, "The Genesis of the Armenian Question," Ankara, 1984,
pp. 5-6.

"The Russo-Turkish War of 1877-1878 was the biggest disaster ever known 
 in the Ottoman-Turkish history. During that war nearly four hundred 
 thousands Rumelian Turks were massacred. About a million of them who
 fled before the invading Russian armies took refugee in the Thrace,
 Istanbul and Western Anatolia.[9] The Russian invasion of eastern provinces
 of Anatolia too was a real calamity for the Turkish-Muslim people of the 
 region.

 The War of 1877-78 affected also the Armenian minority in Turkey, but in a
 different way. In some remote parts of Anatolia, Armenian armed bands took
 advantage of the absence of all able-bodied Turkish men and troops, and,
 attacked unprotected peaceful Muslim villages. Such was the case, for instance,
 in the Zeitoun region where some 200 armed Armenians, under the brigand Chief
 Babek, attacked and looted the settlements of the neighbouring Yuruk tribes
 and the Turkish villages of Lisne, Kenbul, etc. and killed several unoffensive
 people.[10]

[9] For details see: Bilal N. Simsir, "Turkish Emigrations from the Balkans.
    Documents. Vol. I: A Turkish Exodus (1877-1878): Vol. II: A Year of
    Transition (1879)," Ankara: 1968-1970.
[10] Turkey No. I (1880): "Correspondence Respecting the Commission sent by
     the Porte to Inquire into the Condition of the Vilayet of Aleppo,"
     London: 1880, No. 831.

Serdar Argic

                     'This war quickly developed into one of extermination. 
                      We closed the roads and mountain passes that might 
                      serve as ways of escape for the Tartars [Turks] and 
                      then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: ifaz706@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu (Noam Tractinsky)
Subject: Help
Organization: University of Texas @ Austin
Date: 21 Dec 92 12:43:20 CST

	
	About a couple of weeks ago, I challenged Phill Hallam-
	Baker to provide any evidence that I claimed that Pollard's
	treatment was unfair (see below). Since I've been away for
	some time and can't afford browsing through hundreds of tpm
	posts, I would appreciate if anyone who recalls reading
	such evidence can email me. PLease, don't take it lightly,
	as Phill had promissed to sue me for libel on a related 
	matter...



In article <Byuyu8.GBz@dscomsa.desy.de>, hallam@zeus02.desy.de (Phill Hallam-Baker) writes:

> 
> Noam is making assertions that he provides no evidence to support and demands
> that everybody else disprove him. Since he is making the claim that Pollards
> treatment is unfair surely he should be the one to produce evidence. 


	I hereby challenge Mr. Phill HAllam-Baker, or any other
	person for that matter, to provide even the slightest
	evidence that I made the claim that Pollard's treatment
	is unfair.

	If Mr. HAllam-Baker is not able to provide such evidence
	within, say, 10 days (my expected return date from Dallas)
	I assume that he will apologize for making this claim. 


Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:24270 talk.politics.soviet:10036 soc.culture.greek:11921 soc.culture.europe:10858 soc.rights.human:4686 soc.culture.soviet:11635 news.admin.policy:933
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.rights.human,soc.culture.soviet,news.admin.policy
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: (Auto?) Canceller, stop it! (Re: Cancels)
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 92 20:09:13 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <Bzxynp.Hyy@news.cso.uiuc.edu> paul@uxc.cso.uiuc.edu (Paul Pomes - UofIllinois CSO) writes:

>>Then why were they cancelled by exile@mediaone.freeside.com?

>Now I know where to send my thank yous.  

If you were to line up on one side of the earth every human being
who ever lived or ever will live, and you took a good look at the
whole motley crowd, you wouldn't find anybody quite like you. Now, 
wait there's more.


      CIS Commander Pulls Troops Out of Karabagh :

"Elif Kaban, a Reuter correspondent in Agdam, reported that after a battle 
 on Wednesday, Azeris were burying scores of people who died when Armenians 
 overran the town of Khojaly, the second-biggest Azeri settlement in the 
 area. 'The world is turning its back on what's happening here. We are dying 
 and you are just watching,' one mourner shouted at a group of journalists."
 Helen Womack
 The Independent, 2/29/92

Serdar Argic

                     'This war quickly developed into one of extermination. 
                      We closed the roads and mountain passes that might 
                      serve as ways of escape for the Tartars [Turks] and 
                      then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)
From: "wayne mcguire" <wayne.mcguire@channel1.com>
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: israel
Date: 27 Dec 92 14:43:50 EST
Reply-To: "wayne mcguire" <wayne.mcguire@channel1.com>
Distribution: talk
Organization: Channel 1 Communications

To: Center for Policy Research

A few questions:

  (1) What is the Center for Policy Research? Who funds it? What
  is its address? What is its mission?

  (2) Do you believe that Israel has a right to exist in any form
  whatever?

  (3) Do you acknowledge that Israel has serious security
  problems and is surrounded by hostile forces?

  (4) Why would a Palestinian state require advanced military
  armaments?

  (5) If you don't believe that Israel has a right to exist, and
  should be dismantled, are you willing to take into your city
  all the refugees from the former Israel?
---
  OLX 3.01 31-2557  20 pairs of reading hands per scavenger robot
--
Channel 1 (R)   Cambridge, MA
From: marwang@bach.rutgers.edu (Marwan Gharaybeh)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Kaufman demonstrate stupidity (was Re: Deportation vs. Murder)
Date: 3 Jan 93 03:21:18 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

bc744@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark Ira Kaufman) writes:


>   There has been much talk about the deportations in the context
>of their political significance.  I wonder why terrorist activity
                                                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Terrorism is defined as the actions against innocent civilians. The israeli
policeman is not an innocent civilian and is a part of the military. So
the action of Hamas does not fit within the definition of terrorism.

Notice that the Israeli police do fall within the terrorist circle since
they kill unarmed civilian boys/girls who did not even pass 10 years of
age.

Thowing stones at the hated oppressor is not a crime and civilian uprising
has allways been something to respect. Numerous examples could be extraced
from the near history such as the Tiniamin square incident is china and the
uprizing against communism in the former soviet union.

>   A man is kidnapped.  A short time later, his body is found out
>on the side of some road, dumped like a bag of garbage.  The body
>indicates that he was bound and repeatedly stabbed to death.  The
>murder was carried out by an organization sworn to kill Jews.  It
>is a terrorist organization with hundreds of members.  They swore
>an oath to try to kill Israelis whenever and however they can.

He is not a man ... He is a Israeli policeman ... A guy who's job is to
hunt down 10 year olds in the street. Second, this organization kidnapped
this criminal and asked to exchange him with one of its leaders who
was KIDNAPPED by the Israeli police.

>   They are rounded up and booted out of the area.  They received
>money and clothing, and then were shown the door.  This eviction,
>this kicking out of terrorists ...

Again this is a plain demonstration of your stupidity ... You imperical
formula relating terrorism to non-Israelis is not accurate at all.

>is being procalimed as cruel.  But
>there has been not one word of protest from a single humanitarian
>or human rights group about kidnapping an innocent man,

INNOCENT MAN ????!!!! ... More stupidity ...

>   Jews are also human beings.  Many of you may not think so, but
>we are.

I know that jews are human beings, some are intelligent and some are
stupid like you ....

>Is it acceptable to kidnap someone, bind him, and ...

Why don't you say this for the Israelis ... remember that the person they
were trying to exchange him for was also kidnapped, blinded ... etc.

>him by repeatedly stabbing him, if he is a Jew?  Mr. Toledano ...

Officer (or seargent) Teledano ... Stupid ...

--Marwan
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Israeli soldiers kill Palestinian boy
Date: 22 Dec 92 21:39:48 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <1992Dec17.221219.27331@bony1.bony.com> jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni) writes:
>
>Now when Israelis feel that they are being attacked, and instead of
>just blowing the whole place to smithereens, they send in Israeli
>soldiers to determine what exactly is going on, at considerable
>personal danger to the Israeli soldiers, and only then take action,
>the accusations against Israeli brutality start pouring in.

There is no justification for oppression, there is no justification
for tyranny, there is no justification for occupation, there is no
justification for murdering little children, there is no justification
for destroying homes, there is no justification for making settlements
on the territories, there is no justification for expelling thousands
of people, there is no justification for human rights violations, there
is no justification for breaking international law, and, there is no
justification for the kind of excuses that you are proposing.

>I am waiting for the "international outcry like you have never seen"
>against the Americans.

International outcry and condemnation is talk ... cheap and useless
talk.

Anisa (the lovely and talented)

	"We just hope that the Israelis will reciprocate and will
	not continue to create such painful and aggrevating conditions
	on the ground that need to further hostilities and feed the
	cycle of violence.  The occupation is an abnormal, distorting
	condition.  It has to come to an end.  And I think only then
	will you see an end to violence."
						Hanan Ashwari
				Interview on ABC World News/12-16-92
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Subject: Re: Israel must return the deportees!
Reply-To: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe AZ
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 23:31:29 GMT

In article <533@owl.ukc.ac.uk> dat@ukc.ac.uk (D.A.Turner) writes:

# In article <RLK.92Dec28221058@underprize.think.com> (Robert Krawitz) writes:

# >In article <531@owl.ukc.ac.uk> dat@ukc.ac.uk (D.A.Turner) writes:

# >   Can people not see that the violence of Hamas and similar  organisations
# >   is the natural reaction of the Palestinians to the misery of their lives
# >   under Israeli occupation?

# >Then why were such groups organized long before June 1967, when this was
# >not an issue (the PLO was formed in 1964)?
 
# Most of the territory of Palestine was seized in 1948.   Three  quarters
# of  a  million  Palestinians were driven from their homes, in an "ethnic
# cleansing" similar to what is now going on  in  Bosnia.   The  remainder
# became  second  class citizens in a Zionist state.  This event is called
# in Arabic "El Naqbar" - the Catastrophe.  The shock waves of that  event
# are  still echoing around the arab world.  If you want to understand the
# Israel/Palestine dispute, the key year is 1948, not 1967.
 
	It must be real neat getting your history books out of a Cracker
Jack box.

# David Turner
  (A British Jew who DOES brown nose anti semites)
--
	There are three types of people in the world.  Those that are good
at math and those that are not.

makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: perlman@qso.Colorado.EDU (Eric S. Perlman)
Subject: Re: Can Mr. Perlman back up his claims? (was  Re: Israeli soldiers kill Palestinian boy)
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 19:07:10 GMT

In article <1992Dec23.184534.2938@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> wmuhanna@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Waleed A Muhanna) writes:
>In article <23107@venera.isi.edu> arens@ISI.EDU (Yigal Arens) writes:
>>In article <1992Dec19.152908.6275@colorado.edu> perlman@qso.Colorado.EDU (Eric S. Perlman) writes:
>>>
>>> In article <23100@venera.isi.edu> arens@ISI.EDU (Yigal Arens) writes:
>>> >
>>> >Instead of backing up your voluntary assertion
>>> >that "[You] do know that numerous PLO-affiliated activists who've stated
>>> >even slightly non-standard opinions have been forced to seek protection
>>> >from Israeli authorities", you are continuing to argue with me about my
>>> >comments on Damiri's words.  As though if it were shown that I even
>>> >INTENTIONALLY LIED about Damiri this would somehow establish the truth
>>> >of your original claim.
>>>
>>> You're misconstruing my argument.  You twisted Damiri's words.  Period.
>>> You made what was only a hair's breadth from a guilt-by-association
>>> argument based on that twisting.  
>>>
>>> I'm not confusing Usenet with reality, Dr. Arens.  But I think you are
>>> being extremely spiteful, and I for one do not have to respond to pure,
>>> unadulterated sour grapes.  
>>
>>What do "sour grapes" "extreme spiteful[ness]" on my part or anything
>>else have to do with this?  Prove me wrong.  Post evidence for your
>>claim that "numerous PLO-affiliated activists who've stated even
>>slightly non-standard opinions have been forced to seek protection from
>>Israeli authorites".  You can't.
>
>Poor Perlman.  Once again, he is cought with his pants down, but instead
>of facing reality, he twists and shouts and engages in hyperboles, all in
>a disparate attempt to hide his naked reality.  In two days, I'm sure, he
>will come back and claim that he has "utterly refuted" Yigal.
>
>We all make mistakes, Perlman.  I suggest you simply admit it and save
>whatever little credibility that some think you might still have.

Poor Muhanna.  If you've been following the thread with any alacrity,
you'd know that Dr. Arens is vastly misstating the case.  Unfortunately,
Waleed seems to suffer from the same problems as Dr. Arens.  Must I remind
the net of the several times I've caught Muhanna in the act of making up a
straw man by misconstruing my arguments, or putting words in my mouth,
in order to make me look silly?   He'll deny this of course, but it's
fact.  Muhanna, your credibility is stretched to the limit already.  I
suggest you not stretch it any further.

The only mistake in this thread is Dr. Arens', as I have already shown.


-- 
"How sad to see/A model of decorum and tranquillity/become like any other sport
A battleground for rival ideologies to slug it out with glee." -Tim Rice,"Chess"
     Eric S. Perlman 				 <perlman@qso.colorado.edu> 
  Center for Astrophysics and Space Astronomy, University of Colorado, Boulder
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Subject: Re: Deportation vs. Murder
Reply-To: hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 19:54:08 GMT

In article <1992Dec27.164331.20245@wisipc.weizmann.ac.il>,
fedimit@wisipc.weizmann.ac.il (Dan Nabutovsky) writes:
> >So all 400 of these people killed the one man? So all the 1200 who were
> >given administrative detention helped kill the one man? The question is
> >justice. You have declared all 1600 of these people to be terrorists
> >without trial and without knowledge of any evidence. The Israeli
> >government has not even released the names of these people but YOU KNOW
> >that they are all guilty. Do you have some kind of extrasensory
> >perception? You know, your psychic powers could be put some good use, I
> >suppose. :-)
> >
> >
> >Brad Hernlem (hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU)
> 
>    All 1600 people were members of HAMAS, which is responsible
> for killing that man. Being member of a terroristic organisation
> is a crime.
> 
> Dan

If this is so, why were these people not incarcerated before? Did they
all just join Hamas a few days ago? Was there a break-through in
military intelligence just recently? Dan, honestly, do you really
believe that justice was served?

Mind you, no evidence was ever presented by Rabin's government to
substantiate your claim that these people were all "members of a
terroristic organization". 

Brad "Ali" Hernlem (hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU)
From: srose@mizar.usc.edu (Steve Rose)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: A plea for a bit of self examination
Date: 21 Dec 1992 09:06:12 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu
Keywords: honesty humility growth

Dear Person,

I would like to make a brief plea for a bit of honest self-examination
(particularly for those of us currently so emotionally involved in the
Israeli/Palestinian issues).

It is common for people, over the Internet as well as elsewhere, to spend
a lot of time defending our positions.  This is fine, but there is more to
being human.

I want to suggest the possibility of taking a minute to examine ourselves -
what we are feeling - how honest we feel we are being - how fair we feel we
have been.  Can we learn anything from the horrible experiences that our
brothers and sisters are having in the Mideast?  I do not necessarily suggest
such soul-searching in the form of letters.  Just taking a minute to think
about what is going on in a different kind of way than perhaps we have been.

Then perhaps it may be possible for us to feel at least a bit of sorrow for
both the Israeli and Palestinian human beings who have been killed in recent 
days.

Peace, Shalom, Salaam,


Steve Rose



Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.rights.human
From: ifaz706@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu (Noam Tractinsky)
Subject: Re: To Livian (was Re: Israeli Expulsion of 418 Palestinians)
Organization: University of Texas @ Austin
Date: 21 Dec 92 14:23:03 CST

In article <1992Dec21.170253.17576@ncsu.edu>, hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem) writes:
> 
> I would like to point out that although you note differences between the
> PLO and Hamas, the recent actions of the Israeli government have had the
> effect of bringing these two groups together. According to the BBC, the
> PLO and Hamas have been formally meeting in the wake of the deportations
> and have been distributing statements which are jointly endorsed by the
> two groups.


	Good news, for a change. One of the problems ISrael
	faces in its negotiations with the Palestinians is the
	need to listen and talk to a multiple-head entity. If 
	we can collapse those heads into one, negotiations 
	should become easier. It would serve both Palestinian
	and Israeli interests if the Palestinian delegation will
	be more representative of the Palestinian pople. 

	Unfortunately, I don't think that it'll serve either the
	PLO or the Hamas interests, so don't expect this partnership
	to last too long.



 I would also like to point out that (again, according to the
> BBC) most of the deported Palestinians have stated that they wish to
> return to their homes and are supporting the refusal of the Lebanese
> government to accept them.


	I guess if they didn't wish to return to their homes
	the effects of the punishment and deterance would be
	considerably diminished.

 
> 
> Brad Hernlem (hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU) 


Noam
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:24351 talk.politics.soviet:10066 soc.culture.greek:11943 soc.culture.europe:10886 soc.history:10436 soc.culture.soviet:11669
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history,soc.culture.soviet
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: "Bullets and bayonets completed the work," wrote an Armenian.
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 92 19:40:22 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <1992Dec29.051138.11758@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> pcheah@nyx.cs.du.edu (Po Shan Cheah) writes:

>Thank you, oh great Argic, for putting my name on the Subject line, an
>honor reserved for your worst enemies.

Nope. As a human being, I assert my view that the Turkish Genocide was
a crime against humanity.

"We closed the roads and mountain passes that might serve as 
 ways of escape for the Tartars and then proceeded in the work 
 of extermination. Our troops surrounded village after village. 
 Little resistance was offered. Our artillery knocked the huts 
 into heaps of stone and dust and when the villages became untenable 
 and inhabitants fled from them into fields, bullets and bayonets 
 completed the work. Some of the Tartars escaped of course. They 
 found refuge in the mountains or succeeded in crossing the border 
 into Turkey. The rest were killed. And so it is that the whole 
 length of the borderland of Russian Armenia from Nakhitchevan to 
 Akhalkalaki from the hot plains of Ararat to the cold mountain 
 plateau of the North were dotted with mute mournful ruins of 
 Tartar villages. They are quiet now, those villages, except for 
 howling of wolves and jackals that visit them to paw over the 
 scattered bones of the dead." 

                             Ohanus Appressian
                            "Men Are Like That"
                                   p. 202.

Serdar Argic

                     'This war quickly developed into one of extermination. 
                      We closed the roads and mountain passes that might 
                      serve as ways of escape for the Tartars [Turks] and 
                      then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast