HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: lawbkwn@buacca.BITNET
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: SCADigest #172
Date: 7 Apr 92 21:36:51 GMT
Organization: The Internet

Good gentles, for some reason, my
printer ate digest #172 after I purged
it from my mail files.  Could some
kind gentle please forward a copy to:
lawbkwn@buacca
lawbkwn@buacca.bu.edu
Many thanks
Yaakov HaMizrachi
From: lawbkwn@buacca.BITNET (Yaakov HaMizrachi)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: SCA in SF/Authors
Date: 14 Apr 92 19:49:19 GMT
Organization: The Internet

Greetings good gentels, from this
humble Yaakov.

VArious folk have cited the 'Warlock'
books by Christopher Stasheff as an
example of the SCA in SF.  While he may
not have heard of SCA when he started,
Stasheff makes it very clear in
*The Warlock Enraged* that the progenitors
of Grammerie were SCAdian. (Was he also the
one to invent St Vidicon of Cathode?)
In a rather large expository lump, one of
the characters explains the history of Grammerie
to another, going back to a Communist revolution
on Earth.  The SCA, with its rabid individualists,
posed a threat to the new order, so they ordered
it disbanded and executed its kings.
("All of whom," notes Stasheff, "Requested beheading.")
The SCA went underground and became the leaders
of the counter-revolution.

I have heard that Esther Friesner and Ketherine
ahem, Katherine Kurts are also SCAdians.  Can
anyone confirm this?

Yaakov
From: jtn@nutter.cs.vt.edu (Terry Nutter)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Historical Trivia (was ownership of England)
Date: 13 Apr 92 22:29:23 GMT
Followup-To: jtn@vtopus.cs.vt.edu
Organization: SCA

Lord Yaakov HaMizrachi recently posted:

>My lord, you mention two books on
>William Rufus, might I inquire to
>the authors and titles?  I should
>love to read them over the summer.

Indeed, they are:

Frank Barlow.  _William Rufus_.  Berkeley: University of California at Berkeley
   Press, 1983.
Edward A. Freeman.  _The Reign of William Rufus_.  2 vols.  New York: AMS
   Press, 1970 (reprint of 1882 Oxford Edition).

The Barlow volume is an excellent piece of modern scholarship.  The Freeman
volumes are wonderful for their plethora of factual detail, but the
interpretation is frequently faulty; Freeman was a Victorian scholar who
fancied the Anglo-Saxons as the great progenitors of the English character
and the Normans as 11th century thugs who destroyed English primeval
democracy (this view is, obviously, a crock, but it colors Freeman's
analysis).

>I had wondered whatever happened to
>Robert Curthose.  He seems to have
>just gone off and ruled Normandy and
>we never hear from him again.  Reminds
>me of 'Whats-his-name' the third member
>of the Second Triumverate of Rome.
>Marc Anthony got killed, Octavian got
>the Empire, and this guy went off to
>Africa to live happily and decidently
>ever after.

Robert Curthose was captured by Henry I at the Battle of Tinchebrai in
1106 and imprisoned by his brother for twenty-eight years, first in
the Tower of London and later the keeps of Devizes and Cardiff.  He died
at Cardiff on Feb. 10, 1134.

"What's-his-name" was Marcus Aemilius Lepidus who was given control of
Africa in the Treaty of Brundisium in 40 B.C.  He was expelled from Africa
in 36 B.C. and banished by Octavian to Circeii.

In Service to the Society,

Hossein Ali Qomi
From: branwen@cerebus.ccc.amdahl.com (Karen Williams)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Welsh jokes
Date: 15 Apr 92 19:02:47 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <9204141547.aa27812@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> lawbkwn@buacca.BITNET (Yaakov HaMizrachi) writes:

>Around here, there is a running gag
>called 'vowels for Wales.' This is typically
>invoked if someone submits a welsh name, or
>someone mangles the pronounciation.
>People stick out their hands, as if begging
>for alms, and say "Vowels? Vowels for Wales?"
>There is a conflict of opinion as to what
>the Welsh did with their vowels.  My lady
>maintains they can't afford 'em, as vowels
>cost $250 and consenents are free.  I
>maintain that God gave the Welsh as many vowels
>as he gave anyone else, but they were so
>poor they had to sell them (I think to
>the Hawaiians) or eat them (which is
>why Welsh sounds so much like gagging.)

No, you poor people just don't understand the Welsh language.
Welsh has lots of vowels. Seven, in fact. Then there's mutating
of consonants. Take any word beginning with c, like "calon" (which
means heart). If you precede "calon" with a word ending in "y",
the "c" mutates to "ngh", so you get "f'y nghalon," for instance.
So what looks like three consonants is actually only one, mutated.
(A man with two heads is still only one man, right?) So most of
what you perceive as groups of consonants are really only one. Really.

Branwen ferch Emrys
The Mists, the West

--
                                          Karen Williams
                                          branwen@cerebus.ras.amdahl.com
"Don't whine. Warrior women speak in a husky whisper."
  -- Brat Pack #3
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: habura@vccsouth06.its.rpi.edu (Andrea Marie Habura)
Subject: Re: Unpronounceable names
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy NY
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 16:18:48 GMT

Well, that makes sense, Arval; Shakespeare spelled the name "Fluellen".
(I read the play before seeing the movie; a Good Thing, it turned out.)

Alison MacDermot
From: mephron@tronsbox.xei.COM (Mephron)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: SCA Digest V5 #182
Date: 11 Apr 92 18:55:03 GMT
Organization: The Internet

And again it happens.

Good my lords and ladies, pray attend.

When you give a message unto this Great Network of Scribes, please do be 
caring of your punctuation.  A misplaced period can make a great deal of 
difference in where your message reaches.  (Indeed, in this collection of
missives my Scribe received today, the collection ends with a message from
Yaakov, despite notations that other messages should come afterwards.)

And unto those whose messages are transported from another Great Network of
Scribes:

Mine own scribe is somewhat lacking in brain.  (Excellent handwriting, but
most uncomprehending of certain obvious forms of the other parts of writing,
such as beginning a new line when reaching the end of the paper.)  I must
explicitly render unto my scribe the precise manner of the end of the line,
or my own missives may come forth somewhat garbled.  Perchance, until such
time as the scribe that copies the messages between the two organizations
of scribes (hmmm...a desire to destroy the reputation of the guild?  A
thought.....) is either retrained, replaced, or simply beated into the
proper manner of doing things, those that have such problems with their
missives (in the view of others) could perhaps do such explicit instructing
to their personal scribes?

'Tis but a thought, good lords and ladies.

	Yours in service, 
		Gwalchmai
From: ds4p+@andrew.cmu.edu (David Schroeder)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Mundane Interactions
Date: 12 Apr 92 16:11:32 GMT
Organization: Doctoral student, Industrial Administration, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Good gentles,

  Elspeth (aldridge andrea@henson.cc.wwu.edu) notes her chance to turn
the tables and reply to those who ask if she and her friends are in
the SCA "No, we're in a play..."

  Part of the delight of such stories is how they seem to be regenerated
in each new SCA generation.  I heard such a tale as a newcomer back in
A.S. XI and I'm sure something similar happened in the dim and distant
"Mists" of time that served as a model for those that would come after.

  There are a number of such stories that were part of my SCA-education.
Some are sca-urban legends.  Others actually _did_ happen...  Here are 
some of the "tag lines..."   Can you add more from your area?


  SCA Folklore Tag-lines
  ----------------------
  "The King does _not_ have the brains of a pig..."     <from Cariadoc>
  "Where did you learn to fight like that?" "Atenveldt" <from Vissevald>
  "I'll see your six inches and raise you thirty!"
  "No, we're in a play"
   . . .


Thanks in advance and much obliged...

  -- Bertram --

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bertram of Bearington                                      Dave Schroeder
Debatable Lands/AEthelmearc/East               Carnegie Mellon University
INTERNET: ds4p@andrew.cmu.edu                         412/731-3230 (Home)
------------------------- PREME * Press On * PREME ----------------------
      "He indulged in every excess, yes in each licentious whim..."
From: dlc@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Dennis Clark)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Re: rSCA in fiction - need help
Date: 15 Apr 92 17:49:21 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA


  For a chuckle, Robert Asprin's "MYTH" books have a few chapter lead-in
quotes from notable SCA types.

Kevin
From: Alex_Hart@mindlink.bc.ca (Alex Hart)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Horde, Money, Camping
Date: 13 Apr 92 01:52:12 GMT
Article-I.D.: mindlink.11391
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada

Two or three day events are the norm in the summertime in An Tir and not
unknown in the winter months either.
Alastair the Eastern Traveller
Lions Gate,An Tir
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: andrew@bransle.ucs.mun.ca (Andrew Draskoy)
Subject: SCA Publications
Organization: Memorial University of Newfoundland
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 16:38:45 GMT

The recent queries about subscription information for Thinkwell reminded
me to post this.  Here are the SCA-relevant publications that people have
told me about.  I've left out the addresses and such, but you can get the
entire file by anonymous ftp from bransle.ucs.mun.ca:/pub/sca/publications.
If you know of others, please send me their names, a short description, and
and address for enquiring about subscriptions.

Miklos - andrew@bransle.ucs.mun.ca
---
*The Camel
    A monthly newsletter for the heralds of Lochac.

Folk Harp Journal

*Laurel Letters of Acceptances and Returns
    Monthly report of the Laurel Sovereign of Arms

*Letter of Dance
    A newsletter of the terpsichorean arts in the SCA.  Eight issues
    and a cassette tape each year.

Lorica
    A semi-annual publication dedicated to the study of arms and armor
    of the medieval and rennaissance periods.

*Midlander
    Regional newsletter for the Illinois/Iowa area of the U.S.A.

*Millrind
    Newsletter of the East Kingdom College of Heralds.

*Thinkwell
    An SCA Philosophy Newsletter - an ongoing set of discussions
    about life in the Society, What We Are, What We Should Be,
    Where We're Going, etc.

Thomas' Rhymer
    A journal of the Bardic Arts in the SCA.

*Vinland i Dag
    Monthly newsletter for the Northern Region of the East Kingdom.
From: jeffs@math.bu.EDU (Jeff Suzuki)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: SCA cartoons
Date: 15 Apr 92 19:48:41 GMT
Organization: The Internet


Just thought I'd post this; it has nothing to do with whatever.

Saw an issue of Dragon magazine which had a cartoon: a single wizard,
surrounded by a number of fighter types.  The wizard was saying, "One
of you will become King!  And the rest will suffer back problems,
bruises, and heat prostration..."

Fujimoto
From: CS341A035@husky1.stmarys.ca ("Loki, Lord of Mischief and Confusion a.k.a. Brynjolfr Myrkjartanarson, founder of the Compaignie Mercurie")
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Unpronounceable names
Date: 16 Apr 92 16:42:00 GMT
Organization: The Internet

Gwenllian writes:
>Good gentles of the Rialto, I give you greetings!
>
>Yaakov HaMizrachi and others have been debating what happened to Welsh
>vowels. It seems odd to me -- no one has any problems with the vowels in
>my name!  In fact, it's the consonants they have problems with...  Perhaps
>the problem is not so much that we Welsh have too few vowels, but that someone
>tried to foist off a bunch of extra l's, w's, and y's on us and we had to
>put them *somewhere*... <grin>

Well, having an Irish-Norse name myself (the worst of both worlds in terms
of name pronunciation), I find that most people find my patronymic far
harder to pronounce than my given name... and my given name has 3 vowels
out of 9 letters, where my patronymic has 6 vowels out of 15 letters.

I think the truth with Celtic names is not that they are really that low on
vowels and hard to pronounce, but that they're so *long*... Myrkjartanarson
for example (my patronymic) is really a mouthful...

>Gwenllian ferch Madog Llangollen, called "the unpronounceable"!

Moreach writes:
>No, no milord Bjalfi...even I, a mere Scot (Hah..WE got all the vowels!-)
>know that the "ll" is a weird Welsh dipthong, pronounced "thl". If you can rent
>a copy of Brannagh's "Henry V", listen when he talks to Llwellyn, the Welshman.
>He does it well, according to what I heard in Wales. It comes out "Thlooethlin".

The correct pronunciation for Llwellyn, from what I've heard, (I'm of Welsh
background mundanely) goes something like "Looethlin"... the first double-l
is pronounced differently.

>(I am not so sure, but I think the "dd" is a plain "th"..."w" is called "double
>u" because it was, once, and is pronounced "oo". There is a lot of other silly
>Welsh tricks I don't know. Just like the lot who stole southern Scotland for
>several hundred years from my poor Pictish ancestors... :-)
>
>Moreach

-Brynjolfr Myrkjartanarson, Compaignie Mercurie, Seashire, Ruantallan, East

      The unwise man thinks he will live for ever if he shuns fight, but
      Old age gives him no peace though spears may shun him. - The Havamal

        The Net: cs341a035@husky1.stmarys.ca, cs341a035@stmarys.bitnet
From: Tim@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Tim)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Flames
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 21:51:54

 DC> Tim@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Tim) writes:

 DC> [...]
 DC> > My personal experience suggests that neither is being serious, in this
 DC> > area. Despite the fact that playing persona games demonstrably has
 DC> > never worked, demonstrably does not work, and demonstrably will never
 DC> > work, there persist a depressingly large number of people who continue to
 DC> > elevate it to the status of a holy ikon. When reasoned argument doesn't make an
 DC> > impression (and I've been trying, in various fora, for ... let's see, it'll be 18 years come
 DC> > September), snide is sometimes all one has left.

 DC>   You haven't demonstrated anything, you've just flamed it.

 In response to what was also, in effect, a flame. If someone wants a
 reasoned discussion, I'm up for it. If they want to trade flames, I'm up
 for that, too.  Yours to choose.


 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
From: SHICOFF@UNC.BITNET
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: War Suggestions, section 2
Date: 12 Apr 92 04:22:00 GMT
Organization: The Internet

************************************************************
                    Julitta's War Suggestions
                      Section 2
I suspect that one can make one's own orange-banana
juice, freeze it & carry it to the war more cheaply
than one can buy it.  In any form, potassium is a
GOOD THING.  It is one of the 2 reasons people drink
Gatorade.  I was summoned to Oliewood last war, because
Duke Olaf had a TERRIBLE leg cramp.  "So", I says,
"Had any bananas lately?"  "I HATE bananas!" groaned
Olaf, from behind gritted teeth.  "What about Gatorade?"
"Gatorade's yucky."  "I see.  What about oysters?"
"What about oysters?  I love 'em!"  "Ah, will you eat
some, if I fix them?"  "Sure!"
Let me commend to you the lowly oyster, that confused
mollusk that can't remember which sex it is, but which
is one of the highest known sources of potassium, &
which also live quite happily in cans (which need no
refridgeration), as well as in shells.
A casserole of oysters would make a decadent part of
breakfast (better to be ahead on potassium, than play
catch-up) for heavy fighters, & others who sweat a lot.
Let me recommend serious massage, aspirin, & legatrin
(not cheap, but over-the-counter, & do you REALLY care
when it hurts that much)--a quinine product which does
indeed help with cramps, if it's too late, & you're
stuck with them.
Sunblock! A very good thing, for fighters as well
as wenches with off-the-shoulder blouses.  I have
seen some pretty badly burned nose & eye areas )all
that the sun could get to, thru the helm, but it
did double duty there.  23 or higher, no paba, is
my preference.
The old saying about taking twice as much money, &
half as many clothes as you are SURE you'll need,
is true.
Keep your feet dry, & your head covered. Take more
dry footware (extra socks!) than you can possibley
go thru.  Take waterproof footware.  Take a hat, or
buy one there, but wear one.  Don't forget your part
(hairline) with the sunblock, either.  Take several
towels.  Leave most of your dry stuff locked in your car
(safe from torrential downpours).  Take a cloak, extra
tunics (look closely, you'd be surprized how cheap
you can find raw silk, sometimes) remember to wear
natural fibers next to your skin (you'll be more
comfortable, they breathe), extra undershirts/underdresses,
A PLACE TO SLEEP THAT IS WATERPROOF!  It will torrentially
downpour AT LEAST 1 night at the war.  Put a warm
sleeping bag inside that waterproof place, on
top of a foam pad (it is amazing how lumpy that
apparently flat place can be).
Take a clear trash bag to put your dirty clothes in
(It is so sad to hear about someone who put their
dirty garb in a reg. trashbag, & well, somone was
helping clean up.....).
From: Tim@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Tim)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
From: Trebor
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Naming the SCA
Date: 7 Apr 92 00:16:43 GMT
Organization: Middle Kingdom

In article <9204031246.AA24843@sagepub.COM> jprod@sagepub.COM (Journals
Production Department) writes:
>
>  HG Cariadoc says: "Perhaps someone could check with Diana, or Aelfreda,
>  or whoever it was who invented the name, to see if [doing medieval
>  things in the 20th century] was the intended meaning."
>
>  At a lecture at what used to be Southwestern University in 1987, Marion
>  Zimmer Bradley (admittedly no longer a friend of the SCA) said that she
>  invented the name when applying for the first Society bank account "so
>  that they could wear their sunglasses." I always interpreted this to 
>  mean simply that she was making a virtue of necessity in that she knew
>  it would be impossible to get people to be strictly authentic.
>
>                      Sister Kate
>
>-- 
>         Journals Production Department, Sage Publications, Inc.
>            2111 West Hillcrest Drive, Newbury Park, CA 91320
>              voice: (805) 499-0721    fax: (805) 499-0871
>                    via Internet: jprod@sagepub.com
>
Just out of curiosity, how is Marion Zimmer Bradley "..admittedly no longer a
friend of the SCA?" Did somwthing happen inside the society to spoil her on it
or what? Is she now a non-particapant, or actively opposed to the SCA? Im not
worried about this,but I am curious?

Trebor Stephenson
Barony of Northwoods
Middle Kingdom
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: withholding knowledge
From: hzhao@eagle.wesleyan.edu
Date: 10 Apr 92 08:05:50 EDT
Organization: Wesleyan University

> 	I can hardly believe a teacher is expected to teach evertyhing she
> knows about everything in an hour or two. 

         I don't recall anyone saying this. I do recall the attitude of "teach
and don't tantalize".


>  Nothing exists in a vacuum.

        Bad science here, :-)

> If I teach a class on, say, 16th century bobbon lace, I will have to mention
> something about needle lace, because the two forms influenced each other,
> back and forth, for centuries. I do not have to drop everything and teach a
> class on needlelace. You can't give a good grounding in any subject without
> mentioning the things that influenced it and the things it, in turn, 
> influenced. 

      Exactly so. Not describing needlace in full and glossing over it with a 
passing reference like "oh, bobbon lace was strongly influenced by needlace."
are not the same.

> Just because you didn't hear it in class, doesn't mean you are to be
> deprived of the knowledge for the rest of your natural life.

      Doesn't matter. I believe the point is there that if one is to be
learning something about a subject, they should expect to be taught something
about it. Have a lesson plan. Stick to it, and have a reason for what you do
and don't do. If you want to cover a topic, do it. If you want to suggest
further study, or promo a next class, do so. Clearly. 
    'sides, you can always find out what things like a Hermitian Operator are
later.  :-)



Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: carl@silver.lcs.mit.edu (Carl J.M. Alexander)
Subject: Re: Magick
Organization:  Organization??? 
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 01:54:17 GMT

In article <9040264@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM> dlc@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Dennis Clark) writes:
>Gerald_Del_Campo@sorinc.UUCP (Gerald Del Campo) writes:
>
>> It seems that much magick is mixed in with the Midieval period.  Has anyone
>> ever adopted the persona of a magician in the SCA?
>> 
>> The Queens of England have had personal astrologers, magicians, diviners,
>> etc.., and it is for this reason that I inquire.
>
>  I'm kind of curious about this too.  Every once in a while someone comes 
>along from a Wicca group and wants to be a druid or wizard in the SCA.  I 
>usually tell them what I know about such stuff, which amounts to little.  
>Namely, most of the magic that I have read about (even tales from period) 
>seems to come from really early pre-christian times and 18-19th century times.
>The early stuff mostly in the form of fairy tales, the latter from the neo-
>celtic revival from the 18th century on.  Nothing else.  No documented witches
>or wizards or druids, just accusations of same and tales of long dead ones.
>I have taken the stance that this is because magic and witchcraft (except for
>perhaps herblore) are in the realm of dragons and pixies - pure fantasy - 
>and always have been.
>
>Kevin

Well, I do know of one period tale of sorcery:  the one about the Irish 
bishop who grabbed a {willow?) branch and cursed William the Marshall, 
something to the effect that his line should wither within two (three?) 
generations.  The curse happens to have wound up correlating with    
reality, for whatever that's worth. 
 
To the best of my knowledge, there was no place or time in period wherein 
it was anything but suicide to go around claiming to be a witch or 
sorcerer.  Most alchemists, and I believe astrologers as well, were 
affiliated with the church (save, of course, the Jewish and Islamic 
ones).  Because of this, and to avoid offending people in the society 
who are real-life Wiccans (or Catholics or ....), it is probably not 
well-advised to go around with a witch or sorcerer persona.   
 
Alexander of Kiev 
 
Carl Alexander
carl@silver.lcs.mit.edu
 

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: habura@vccnorthb.its.rpi.edu (Andrea Marie Habura)
Subject: Re: War Suggestions, section 2
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy NY
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 13:32:55 GMT


One suggestion for obtaining headgear: JC Penney carries some very large, 
wide-brimmed straw hats that are slightly floppy and look more authentic, in
my opinion, than the "craft store" straw hats so commonly used. The floppiness
is nice, because a sudden gust will simply flatten one side of the hat against
your head, as opposed to picking you up by the chinstrap and carrying you 
downwind. (you do need to put some sort of strap on the hat, though.)
I recall them as being about $10.

Alison MacDermot
(who is blonde and has skin to match)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca