From: mchaffee@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Rockville)
Subject: Re: INFFINITI vs BMW
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 18:57:49 GMT

bpita@ctp.com (Bob Pitas) writes:

>???  How come all statements of how BMWs are such good cars always just
>say "That car could NEVER be as good as a BMW", but they never explain
>why.  I have a theory that the reason is that people who drop a load
>on a car like a BMW with slow acceleration, soft handling, and spartan
>interiors have no way to justify it other than saying "No other car
>could be like a BMW".  Of course thats because they got drawn in by some
>rhetoric about it being a "driver's car" or whatever bullshit BMW is using
>to sell their mediocre cars nowadays.  I've driven a 735, and it was just
>about the most boring thing I've ever driven other than a cadillac,
>which is supposed to be boring.  I've also roadraced M3s, and flat
>out accellerated an M5 and 630csi (European spec) up on the highway,
>with no problem.  They don't have acceleration, topspeed, or handling,
>nor do they have as many luxury appointments as a Caddy.

I'm afraid i must here ask your definition of "handling."  Last time I checked,
I had never seen a bad-handling BMW. (I've driven all the current models except the M-series and 850i.)  The ultimate grip of the cars is not as high as some
others, but the overall feel and control of the steering and suspension is un-=
equalled in anything I have ever driven, the Q45 included.  I don't remember
the exact numbers, but the Q's ultimate grip is not much if any higher than the
535i's.  I think a Mustang owner is perhaps not the most qualified person to
comment on what is mediocre, seeing as how you actually put down money for a 
30-year old chassis design with a big engine, wide tires, and little else.  The
BMW's aim is not to out-accelerate everything else on the road; their aim is to
build a car that is high-quality, satisfying, and safe.  The overall "feel" of
the cars is second-to-none; the feel of the steering matches that of the
brakes and other controls; the suspension acts consistently and predictably in
all circumstances; to use a cliche the car is in harmony.  If the BMW is a 
mediocre, overpriced car, why are BMW owners so loyal?  By loyal I don't mean
they tell all their friends what a nice car they have; I mean they go back and
BUY ANOTHER BMW.  It happens all the time.  You'd be surprised how many former
BMW owners that now have Lexinfinitis are planning to go back to BMW or already
have.  BMW has been successful in this country for almost thirty years building
cars for people who don't mind paying extra for a combination of ride,
handling, acceleration, top speed, efficiency, and comfort unequalled by any 
other automaker.  Note I say "combination."  The BMW's seldom excel in one 
area; this would entail compromising another.  Instead, the cars are more than
adequate in all areas.  For some reason, it seems like the people who slam BMW
are always people who don't own one, have never (or hardly) driven one, and
have no idea what they're about.  And as an aside, if your idea of luxury is a
Cadillac, I really feel bad for you.  You haven't lived.

>What do you consider fun?  Thinking to yourself "I wish I had a car
>with half the performance of a Q"?

Actually, my idea of "fun" is a car I don't have to worry about driving vigor-
ously.  I would be terrified to try a four-wheel drift in a Q45; the "mediocre"
735i does them handily.  An aside:  Another thing I consider "fun" is ap-
proaching a corner, double-clutching down into second, and powering through
the corner, not having to worry if the car is going to decide that now is the
time for a gearchange.  Obviously your idea of "fun" IS in fact just going
really fast.  I'm so sorry.
>>
>Silence is achieved by building the car to extremely tight tolerances,
>including engineering the motor to make as little vibrational noise as
>possible.  Also the suspension can be engineered to reduce noise without
>isolating the driver from road feel.  That's the beauty of the Q, it's
>built to such close tolerances, yet with so much HP and Torque, that
>it's one of the funnest cars to drive anywhere.
>The silence is not created by insulating the driver from all noise, it's
>silent because the car doesn't make noise in the first place.  Maybe BMW
>could take a lesson or two from Nissan on build quality.

I doubt that.  All the Q45's I have seen only have that famous Japanese build
quality in the engine and chassis.  It's very difficult to have fun driving a
car when all the interior parts don't even fit together straight, not to
mention the interior panels just scream "Made in K-Mart."  Am I to understand
that you don't WANT to hear the engine?

I won't even bring up the issue of build quality.  I think we should wait about
twenty years and see if the Lexinfinitis even come close.  My 1969 BMW with
220,000 miles is still solid as a rock, still starts every morning, and is
still fun to drive.  I will be somewhat surprised if the Lexus and Infiniti
can do as well.
-- 
Michael T. Chaffee        |****COLORADO BOYCOTTER******|  ______    
mchaffee@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu | Professional Slapthologist |  \    /     HATE
Member, Universal Life Church, Sect of Loons           |   \  /  can never be
Annoyance Theatre Platinum Member |     Evil Genius    |    \/  a FAMILY VALUE
Newsgroups: rec.autos