HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Subject: Re: hot drinks
Reply-To: whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 19:55:18 GMT

In article <1992Nov19.101924.12091@bsu-ucs> 00dbroesinge@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu writes:
>
>	It seems the thread on _hot_ drinks is trying to become a thread on
>_cold_ places.
>
>	I'm not surprised thereby, but would rather hear more about the drinks
>myself.

Or it could segue into a discussion on cold drinks....

My Lady Wife mentioned what she does to mull apple juice.  If any is
leftover, chilling it as close to freezing as you can and drinking the
next day is also quite nice--though I seem to be the only one in the
house that likes it that way.  The longer it has sat hot in the pot,
the stronger it is, plus some of the sugar in the juice appears to
caramalize--leaving you with a medium dark brown liquid, smelling
strongly of apples and spices with a slightly evil looking oily
sheen on top...

Why is everyone looking at me like that?

	--Hal

        Hal Ravn, Province of the Mists, West Kingdom
        Wilson H. Heydt, Jr.,  Albany, CA 94706,  510/524-8321 (home)
-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    "Boycott Time-Warner"
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |         --J. Danforth Quayle
510-823-5447                 |    "... kill all the lawyers."
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |         --William Shakespeare
From: Suze.Hammond@f56.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Suze Hammond)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: sharp, two-edged swords: Roman period
Date: 18 Nov 92 07:00:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: therose.722441405.AA00000

SB>  From: sjb@fc.hp.com (Stuart Bobb)
SB>  Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
SB>
SB>  This may not be the right news group for this question, but I suspect
SB>  it is a
SB>  good place to start.
SB>
SB>  I get the idea that during that time period, any sharp sword was
SB>  probably a
SB>  tall order to manufacture and that making a good two-edged sharp
SB>  sword was
SB>  probably a very tall order.  True?  False?

I think not true, or at least not totally. I know they had good sharp two-
edged swords even back in the Bronze Age. It was harder to keep a bronze
sword sharp, and metal trash wasn't on every street corner like it is now,
but once you get past those problems, the item itself seems to have been
not-uncommon. More likely to be available to those above peasant class, and
I'm sure Rome didn't hand them out to slaves, and former slaves, but I
suspect it had more to do with one's purse beyond that. And one's 
willingness to spend time with a whet-stone (or the ability to have a 
servant to do it).

I will leave to others the commentary on whether to use the edge or the 
point.


Moreach

email ONLY to: trifid@agora.rain.com
From: Ann.Feeney@launchpad.unc.edu (Ann Feeney)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: "period" wristwatches
Date: 15 Nov 92 20:18:37 GMT
Organization: University of North Carolina Extended Bulletin Board Service

In article <BxCxqq.2L4@agora.rain.com> trifid@agora.rain.com (Roadster Racewerks) writes:
>
>
>The comment that colas are less obtrusive than wristwatches brought up a project
>I've been considering...making a good, period-looking bracelet that hides a
>wristwatch. I have one of those silly plastic bangle ones, and it's less

You could put the watch in a pouch/purse whatever, unless you like having
it on your wrist.  (I kind of do, because otherwise I have my "ack, where
did I lose my wa...oh" moments.)
Make a leather wristguard that fits over it.
Weave a fabric band, and turn the watch to the underside of your wrist,
wher it isn't as obvious.
Wear long sleeves.

Hope you find something that works.  Are you also allergic to sterling
silver?  You might not be allergic to gold per se, but to the copper in
the alloy in any karat less than 24, or silver less than .999 pure.
Try using
something that's thickly plated with 24K and see if
that's any good.  Or try rhodium or platinum plating (both more expensive).

Enid Wrigglesworth/Ann Feeney

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: parr@acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr)
Subject: Daffodil tourney, Seagirt
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 18:25:25 GMT
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta


Could someone on the Rialto send me the date for this years
Daffodil Tourney? 

Much appreciated

Carolus Malvoix
-- 
Within the span of the last few weeks I have heard elements of
separate threads which, in that they have been conjoined in time,
struck together to form a new chord within my hollow and echoing
gourd. --Unknown net.person
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Mary Shafer)
Subject: Re: European vs American
Organization: NASA Dryden, Edwards, Cal.
	<1992Nov19.120011.90646@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au>
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 04:20:52 GMT

lcatlett@carson.u.washington.edu (Lynn Catlett) writes:
>> I'd guess that that's part of it.  No museum near *me* has garments
>> from our period that I could look at, even through a museum glass.  In
> . . .
>> leave nose prints on the glass above the surgeon's cap......
>>      Gwenllian Cwmystwyth
>
> Doesn't this drive you wild?  Isn't it possible to
> use some form of alternate radiation/backlighting/
> SOMETHING so that the viewer can actually SEE the
> *craft* rather than the *fashion*?  When "Son of Heaven"
> .....

Two weeks ago I spent a morning at the Smithsonian's National Air and
Space Museum, photographing one of their displays that a curator had
removed from its display case for me.  (It was the Kelly Johnson
Trophy; my husband, Ken Iliff, was the recipient in 1989.)  Everyone
(the curator and the two men who actually removed the case) acted like
this was quite a normal event.

I'd called the week before to set it up and it went very well.  They
did have me come early, before the Museum opened, so that we'd be
undisturbed but this was more an advantage than otherwise.

The curator told me that they make a lot of their displays available
to researchers in this manner; it's part of the museum's role.  They
also make a lot of their collection that's not on display available.
The stuff on display is only the tip of the iceberg.

If you really want to see something, maybe asking will make it possible.

The trophy is lucite, silver (or chrome), and oak, so there was no
difficulty with my using flash.  Textiles, of course, might be more
sensitive.  Perhaps a tripod and fastish film?

--
Mary Shafer  DoD #0362 KotFR NASA Dryden Flight Research Facility, Edwards, CA
shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov                    Of course I don't speak for NASA
 "A MiG at your six is better than no MiG at all."  Unknown US fighter pilot

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: 880840m@ace.acadiau.ca (MICHAEL ALEXANDER MCKAY)
Subject: Re: Lute tunings
Organization: Acadia University
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 15:02:17 GMT

In article <19921118150111UCCXDEM@MVS.UCC.OKSTATE.EDU> UCCXDEM <UCCXDEM@MVS.UCC.OKSTATE.EDU> writes:

>   I would like some info on tuning a lute. The particular instrument
>is a 6-string. 

 I only know one tuning for 6-string lutes -- running from top (lowest) 
string to bottom (highest):

                            G, C, F, A, D, G

 There may be more, but again this is the only one of which I am aware.

                                      
                                           - Michel du Flambard.
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: parr@acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr)
Subject: Re: hot drinks
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 15:06:59 GMT
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta

In article <1ec2jsINNr7p@agate.berkeley.edu> cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu () writes:
>At BART practice on Thursday nights, once the evenings start getting
>chilly (as they have done recently), Hal and I mull up a gallon of cider
>and bring it to BART in a thermos.  It's mostly the bystanders who
>appreciate it at this stage--once it gets just a little colder, the
>fighters will start drinking it too.  (And sometimes just stand there
>holding it, to get their fingers warm.)

To an Avacalian, the idea of a BART practice getting "chilly"
is funny. 

Up here we fight at -20, in the snow.

At the first annual Danish-Frisian Pillage Practice and Spring
Tea, Rorik the Wendol and I came back into the hall with icicles
hanging from our helms.

It was a camping event, BTW.

Molycoddled westies!!!;-)

Carolus Malvoix
Montengarde An Tir
hee hee
-- 
Within the span of the last few weeks I have heard elements of
separate threads which, in that they have been conjoined in time,
struck together to form a new chord within my hollow and echoing
gourd. --Unknown net.person
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: sjb@fc.hp.com (Stuart Bobb)
Subject: sharp, two-edged swords: Roman period
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 17:40:40 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Fort Collins Site
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.6 PL6]

This may not be the right news group for this question, but I suspect it is a
good place to start.

I'm trying to get a realistic picture about the value and the importance a
sharp, two-edged sword might have had in Roman times, time period of around
110 A.D.  No, this isn't an FRP type question, I really have an interest in
the historical facts (not opinions!)  surrounding such a weapon.

Some questions:

I get the idea that during that time period, any sharp sword was probably a
tall order to manufacture and that making a good two-edged sharp sword was
probably a very tall order.  True?  False?

What kind of personage would even command (be allowed to have) such a weapon:
	Any lowly soldier (seems almost certainly not)
	A centurion? (maybe?)
	Who?

What would be the economic value of such a weapon?
	A few days pay for a soldier?  (Not likely!)
	A years earnings of a prince (sounds too high!)
	How much in terms that are comparable to today?

Is there some special tactical effectiveness of such a weapon?  It seems like
that being two-edged it might stab/impale much deeper/better than a normal
sword, but I don't really know.

I should maybe clarify what I mean by imagery.  If I say that somebody was
firing a .44 magnum hand-gun loaded with hollow-points, that conveys a lot of
things that many people today could immediately relate to.  So does the
phrase "spraying an Uzi into a room".

What I want to understand are the mental pictures that would have been
attached to wielding a sharp, two-edged sword in the 110 A.D. time period.

If I'm totally in the wrong group, my apology, please direct me to where I am
most likely to get an historically accurate answer.  Thanks.

Stuart Bobb
sjb@fc.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: Marion.Kee@a.nl.cs.cmu.EDU
Subject: chocolate
Organization: The Internet
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 21:21:00 GMT

To the gentle who inquired about period flavoring for chocolate a
couple of weeks ago:

My research has indicated that the Spanish and Portuguese introduced
chocolate to the Old World as a drink, taken hot, and often flavored
with cinnamon and sugar.  In the New World, the Aztecs used it as a
drink and a condiment.  I do not know what they flavored it with there,
but one source mentioned that they may have combined it with vanilla.
(Since the Europeans didn't catch on to the method of curing vanilla
beans (the vanilla plant is a kind of orchid) until well after our
period, vanilla as a flavoring is not SCA-period.  However, in the
1500's the vanilla orchid was grown in European hothouses as a
botanical curiosity.)

The idea of chili peppers sounds interesting.  Chilis are not one of
the foods I have researched.  They ARE New World; I do not know at what
point during the last century of the SCA period they may have come into
use in the Old World.

A good source I have used which came out last year (1991) is the book
_Seeds of Change_, published by the Smithsonian Institute.  It has a
great deal of interesting information on how the New and Old Worlds
influenced each other in regards to food, during the Spanish Conquest
and thereafter.

Sources such as the _Encyclopedia Brittanica_ should be used for food
research only with a fair amount of caution.  Some of these articles
perpetuate inaccurate information that more recent research has
superseded.  I am probably guilty of this problem myself at times,
since it's hard to keep up with the growing body of knowledge on the
history of foods.

--Marian Greenleaf
From: 00dbroesinge@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: hot drinks
Date: 19 Nov 92 15:19:24 GMT
Organization: Ball State University, Muncie, In - Univ. Computing Svc's

In article <1992Nov18.235214.23038@pbhya.PacBell.COM>, whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt) writes:
> In article <92Nov18.150659.23009@acs.ucalgary.ca> parr@acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr) writes:
>>In article <1ec2jsINNr7p@agate.berkeley.edu> cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu () writes:
>>>At BART practice on Thursday nights, once the evenings start getting
>>>chilly (as they have done recently), ...
>>
>>To an Avacalian, the idea of a BART practice getting "chilly"
>>is funny. 
>>
>>Up here we fight at -20, in the snow.
> ...
>>Molycoddled westies!!!;-)
> 
> It's all relative...  While I grant that an evening temperature around
> 40F is warm in the winter for you, it is a reasonable evening
> temperature around here--anywhere from October to March *plus* August.
> 
> For real cold (in your terms) you may want to hold discussions with
> the folks in Oertha.  

	It seems the thread on _hot_ drinks is trying to become a thread on
_cold_ places.

	I'm not surprised thereby, but would rather hear more about the drinks
myself.

						AEthelwine
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Shoe Biz
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 16:45:46

> in Texas.  Their shoes are not actually period, but perioid.  They 
> are loosely based on ghillies, the traditional and ancient shoe of 
> the Scots and Irish.  They do have a thick rubber sole, which makes 
 QZ> I have a question for you people who have irish/scottish persona.
 QZ> Why not just purchase ghillies from an irish store? 
 Two reasons -- the modern ghillie is even further from the period 
 ghillie than the product of Medieval Moccassins, and secondly, the 
 ones I own have a "ballerina"-type sole.  That is, flat, thin leather. 
 Not particulary pleasant on rocky ground.  And, if I'm not on rocky 
 ground, I usually wear the fabric shoes I made for myself.
     Gwenllian Cwmystwyth

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
From: hwt@bcarh11a.BNR.CA (Henry Troup)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Shoe Biz
Date: 16 Nov 92 14:17:45 GMT
Reply-To: Henry.Troup@BNR.CA
Distribution: world
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada

In article <BxCzq6.98J@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>,
tbarnes@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (thomas wrentmore barnes) writes:

|>length type), China Flats/Kung Fu Slippers in either the "Mary Jane" or
|>Slip on style and some sorts of slippers make acceptable fakes for some
|>periods.
|>	Also simple period shoes are incredibly easy to make. The uppers
|>were commonly made of thick cloth as well as leather with a bit of
|>leather sew/glued to the bottom.

I've found as I age that shoes with no arch support cause me serious
problems.  Especially on hard floors.  I went through an entire event
this weekend wearing running shoes; ugly as sin!  But my feet only hurt
a little at the end of the day.

Has anyone built period shoon around commercial arch supports?  Any
advice on doing so?

I have boots, but they're not always apropos.

One major difficulty with running shoes is the excessive traction - I
find it hard to dance in running shoes because the soles won't slide
over the floor.

Henry of Linlithgow, Skraeling Althing, Ealdormere
                                        
Henry Troup - H.Troup@BNR.CA (Canada) - BNR owns but does not share my opinions
	"It's a good thing we don't get all the government we pay for."
From: Beth.Appleton@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Beth Appleton)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: European vs American
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 09:39:52

 TO> There, the costumes etc were
 TO> much more accurate than the American ones. This set 
 TO> me thinking about why
 TO> there would be such a difference. It could be that 
 TO> the Europeans are somehow
 TO> 'closer' to the history than people in the USA (or 
 TO> Australia). Alternatively,
 I'd guess that that's part of it.  No museum near *me* has garments 
 from our period that I could look at, even through a museum glass.  In 
 fact, when the Mary Rose exhibit came through, the local museum had it's  own "decoration" which was *stage* costumes from the local Shakespeare 
 company.  It confused some of our less-knowledgeable folks.  I did 
 leave nose prints on the glass above the surgeon's cap......
...
 TO> it could be that contact with some of the extremely well organised and
 TO> highly accurate historical groups in Europe have 
 TO> raised the standard in the
 TO> SCA groups there. What do you scadians think? And 
 They may also have a better base knowledge, from childhood on.  I 
 remember doing a demo for a kiddie TV show once.  Classic late Norman, 
 long pointy sleeves, side-lacing and braid cases.  The show host asked 
 me if I was Indian, because the 2 braids were the only visual clue he 
 recognized. 
....
 TO> do you think that William is
 TO> right about there being very little 'peer pressure' to be accurate?
 TO> Just curious,
 I think this also has to do with the fierce American individualism.  
 I've had more than one person just be huffy if it was explained that 
 their costume was miles off target -- couched in much more polite terms,  of course.  If we try to apply peer pressure, we get called "authenti-
 city police".  It doesn't help that the person *most* likely to go 
 around letting people know that they've muffed it is the self-
 righteous type who has just enough data to be dangerous, and doesn't 
 have all the facts.
      Gwenllian Cwmystwyth
         Steppes Ansteorra

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
From: larrylf@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Larry Lynch-Freshner)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 01:18:30 GMT
Subject: Re: Old English terms & period brewery
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Hello!

Re: Period Brewing.
Since your first question dealt with english naming, I'll assume that you
are also interested in english brewing.  I'll leave Mead and wine to others,
although I make both - you might try any good homebrew store or 
rec.crafts.brewing.  

Hops were introduced to england in the early 1500's by Flemish and Dutch
immegrents, but even into the early 1600's, were not really accepted.  
The standard practice was to use other spices and herbes to flavor beer.
During this time, the word 'Ale' refered to the older spice brew, and 
'Beer' refered to a hopped brew.  Both were what we would today consider
an Ale, that is  they were based on an Ale yeast.  If you are still 
interested in period Ale, send me EMail, and I'll send you some references
and recipies.  Example spices and herbs: Ground Ivy, Rosemary, Sweet Gale,
Juniper berries, Woodruff, Pepper, Caraway, Coriander.

Good Luck!
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: troll@sug.org (A. Newman)
Subject: Storytelling/Entertainment 'guilds'
Followup-To: sender
Summary: Do you have one?
Keywords: guild storyteller bard
Organization: Sun User Group
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 16:35:30 GMT


Fondest Greetings to you all;

My name is Aleksandr Yevsha and I have the pleasure to be the
guildmaster of the Carolingian Guild of Storytellers.  As I don't have
enough to do ;-), I thought I would put these questions to the Rialto
assembled:

	Does your local entity (barony, shire, freehold, etc) have a
	storytellers guild or equivalent?

	If not, does it have active storytellers?

	Does it have other performance guilds (bards, minstrels,
	jongleurs, etc.)?

	Does it have a guild organization?


I would prefer the answers came to me, directly (troll@sug.org), and I
will summarize.

Thanking you I am,

I remain,
	your obedient servant...and angel,
	Aleksandr Yevsha, House Sinister
	Guildmaster, Worshipful Company of Carolingian Storytellers

	troll@bridge.sug.org

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: 0003900943@mcimail.COM (Marla Lecin)
Subject: SCA Dance Manuals (was: Ass't Dance Topics)
Organization: The Internet
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 18:59:00 GMT

Greetings from Jessa d'Avondale! 

Justin mentions a couple of SCA dance manuals: the Rose & Nefr, and the two
put out by Fidelico.  While I own these, and have found them useful, I'd
like to add a caveat: when reading the instructions for the English Country
Dances, it is a good idea to have a copy of Playford by your side.  In some
of the dances where Playford is less than crystal-clear in his directions,
the authors of the manuals have interpreted his remarks in a way that I
don't always agree with. (Glory of the West in R&N, and Grimstock in
Fidelico's, to name two.  This is one reason I like working from the
Country Dance and Song Society's "Playford Ball"; it has a facsimile of the
original instructions with every dance.) 

I'm not saying that their versions are any less valid, but I like to know
when I'm dealing with a straightforward repetition, or a interpretation of
Playford's instructions. These are the dances that you will most likely
encounter "regional" variations of when you travel, and at least you won't
be surprised when the dancers don't do the figures the same way you do. 
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: powels@rpi.EDU ("Sean C. Powell")
Subject: Re: Sharp, two-edged Swords: Roman period
Organization: The Internet
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 18:03:28 GMT

	According to Flavius Vegetius Renatus H, Roman soldiers ALL used
double edged short swords (hence they couldn't have been that expensive
(supposition here)) but soldier were taught to thrust with their swords
rather than slash. Paraphrasing: Roman soldier laugh at their enemys who
swing their swords as swinging leaves them open to attack and nothing but
the strongest cuts will penitrate armor while even a moderate thrust by
a roman legionare will pierce all but the strongest armor. or something
to that efect.
	I would suggest reading "Military Institutions of the Romans"
by Vegetius Renatus, Flavius translated from latin by Lieutenant John
Clark (marines) edited by Brig. Gen. Thomas R. Phillips.
published: Harrisburg, Pa., The Military Service Publishing Company,
(1944-)
					Sean Powell
Disclamer: disclamers waste processing time as well as memory space.
           neither of which I pay for  :)
Organization: Doctoral student, Industrial Administration, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 21:40:28 -0500 
From: David Schroeder <ds4p+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: AEthelmearc Coronet Tourney

Greetings good gentles,

I was not there, but as it was reported to me Viscount Sir Bear of the Ax
defeated Viscount Ingvar the Dismal in five hard-fought bouts to win the
right to rule and name his lady (and fiance!) Mistress Judith his consort.
So, Bear and Judith will be War Prince and Princess.  Carpe vitam!

Therion, fighting for Marion Greenleaf (both of this bridge) was one of
the top four finishers.

Hmmm...  this may mean a ROYAL wedding at Pennsic...

My best to you all -- (or as we say in Pittsburgh "you'uns") -- Bertram

+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Bertram of Bearington                                      Dave Schroeder
Debatable Lands/AEthelmearc/East               Carnegie Mellon University
INTERNET: ds4p@andrew.cmu.edu                         412/731-3230 (Home)
+------------------------ PREME * Press On * PREME ---------------------+
      "He indulged in every excess, yes in each licentious whim..." 
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca