Approved-By:  Public-Access Computer Systems Forum <PACS-L@UHUPVM1.BITNET>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.gutnberg
Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1992 08:43:25 CST
Reply-To:     Public-Access Computer Systems Forum <PACS-L@UHUPVM1.BITNET>
Comments:     Warning -- original Sender: tag was PACS-L@UHUPVM1
From:         Public-Access Computer Systems Forum <LIBPACS@UHUPVM1.BITNET>
Subject:      Caste Barriers

Forwarded because I think this is the kind of discussion the nets should
have. . .not that agree with everything in the messages.  Michael
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
4 Messages, 132 Lines
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From: jaffe@scilibx.ucsc.edu (Lee Jaffe, Microcomputer & Network Services)
Subject: Re:  Caste Barriers

Perhaps libraries require the MLS because the MLS means something to them,
that they believe that someone with an MLS will bring something to the
position that they want.  Aside from some important, concrete points that
Charles Bailey has already articulated, I think that requiring an MLS says
something positive about the library and the position.  For years it was
hard to find librarians with the experience and capability of managing a
large systems operations and we were _forced_ to go looking outside the
profession.  (You have to understand that libraries are 'professionally'
run organizations - at least in theory - and the librarians are in charge,
same as doctors run hospitals and lawyers run law firms.  The presence of
a top manager, such as the systems director, who is not a librarian may
create a range of problems.  Sure they may know C like the back of their
hand but can they do Dewey?  Can they participate as a peer with the other
library managers who are librarians?)  Nowadays it is easier to find
librarians with systems experience and given a choice libraries would
rather hire someone with the MLS and the relevant experience.  I've been
arguing elsewhere that libraries should forego the usual systems experience
requirement when hiring their next head of systems and consider depth
of library management experience as more important.  Do you need a hacker
to run the department?  Certainly not as much as you need someone with
planning and administrative experience in libraries.

This question is not unique to the systems positions.  A number of libraries
made the news when they hired non-librarians as directors.  Often the
people selected are deans or distinguished scholars and as much as they
may be respected and as effective as some of them have been, librarians
still have a problem with going outside the profession to select managers.
In an editorial I read - 6 or 7 years ago - American Libraries asked
whether there weren't qualified librarians that could have filled these
positions or whether it was that the institutions didn't have faith in
the management skills of librarians.  On that note, I'd like to turn around
the original objection and point out that there are plenty of skilled
librarians also beating the pavement looking for work.

On the other side of the question, the VISIONS STATEMENT produced by the
Strategic Visions Steering Group calls upon libraries to incorporate
other professions (and their skills) into the library workforce.  I do
think that there is a growing recognition that there are skills out
there that we cannot grow in-house and also a convergence of technology
and roles that suggests opening up the library rolls to other profes-
sions.  As a quick side-note, our library is currently questioning
whether the next head of personnel, who we are about to recruit, needs
to be a librarian.  Many feel that relevant personnel experience is
more important and if the decision goes that way the position will be
cast differently than if we recruited someone with an MLS.  If the
position requires the MLS, this will mean that we have expectations
that the person will perform as a librarian.  In other words, requiring
the MLS is a signal about the expectations of the job.  It is not
something that we do without thinking about the consequences.

-- Lee Jaffe, UC Santa Cruz
   jaffe@scilibx.ucsc.edu
*-----

From: Kate Kiernan - Vermont State Colleges <KATE@VSCNET.BITNET>
Subject: Re: More on MLS and Caste

My previous job was in a large university computer center.  There, they
required a college degree (though not necessarily a CS degree) for virtually
every job - even operators and entry-level programmers.  Certainly the skills
needed to do these jobs have little to do with a college degree.  So why did
they require one?  To eliminate the riff-raff.  To ensure that the "right kind"
of person was hired.  To perpetuate the caste system.

But legislation is starting to appear which makes it illegal to specify a
requirement that isn't really necessary if it discriminates against certain
people.  For example, the Americans with Disibilities Act makes it illegal
to require that a person be able bodied to perform a certain job if it
really isn't so.  And it's illegal to require a high school diploma for
certain low level jobs.

How long will it be before someone questions the legality of requiring an
MLS for various library jobs that could be performed by someone with some
other degree, or no degree at all?

Kate Kiernan (without an MLS or CS degree)
Library Systems Administrator
Vermont State Colleges
*-----

From:         Richard H Lytle <LYTLERH@DUVM>
Subject:      Re: Caste Barriers

By all means, add info on our MSIS/MS degrees.

The library world will go a long way to ensuring second rate computer-based inf
ormation systems by requiring a MLS.  The library is an application area for IS
--no more complex or specialized than most.  The successful IS person will have
 to learn the business of the application area..drug co, mfg firm, or library,
in order to be successful.

For what it's worth, that's my opinion.
*-----

From: jahb@Lehigh.EDU (JENNIFER A. HEISE)
Subject: Re: Caste Barriers

Several years ago, when I began to consider what I would do after college, my
choices narrowed down to studying computer science or going for an MLS.  While
I had enjoyed working a computing center I noticed that any upper level job
involved NOT dealing with the public.  So, I thought, "You can be a computer
programmer and sit in a room talking to a piece of hardware all day. Or you
can be a librarian, and spend half your time talking to real live human beings
and half your time swearing at hardware."  Guess which one I picked?
There is a real reason for choosing the MLS as a requirement for a systems
person in a library. Libraries are public service enterprises first and
foremost; they need people trained in SERVICE.  Computer science is not a
service profession per se: even system analysts tend to deal more with the
administrators of the system, rather than the users.  This is fine when the
administrators are the users, but not so fine when the users are "everybody
else."
Another reason is that systems management in libraries tends to involve a very
small shop. Library automation professional positions seem to be heads of
departments"entry level" positions are very rare, because enthere many be only
one professional in the systems office at all!  This is my dilemma, too, as a
reference librarian with some computer experience interested in Systems-- how
do I learn to run a catalog if there are no "apprenticeship" positions out
there?  How would a CS person like to learn how a library operates
(especially, how cataloging is done), while at the same time learning to run &
maintain a catalog on your own?
Jennifer Heise                           Net: jahb@lehigh.edu
Reference Dept.,                         Phone: (215) 758-3072
Fairchild-Martindale Libraries #8A,  Lehigh University, Bethlehem, PA 18015
My opinions are my own. No one else would HAVE them anyway.

"An Election is coming. Universal peace is declared, and the foxes have a
sincere interest in prolonging the lives of the poultry."  George Eliot
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU