HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mtimko@pdx066.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Mark Timko)
Subject: Re: how often does this happen?
Reply-To: mtimko@ichips.intel.com
Organization: Workgroup Computing Division, PDX, Intel
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 15:47:45 GMT

In article <1992Aug31.124308.14389@zia.aoc.nrao.edu>, dbriggs@zia.aoc.nrao.edu (Daniel Briggs) writes:

|> There is a trend towards hip mounted ripcords for
|> students, to ease the transition to throw-out pilot chutes later.  Such
|> systems usually have separate cutaway and reserve handles in the normal
|> places.

The Student SweetHog's that I started with (Skydive Carolina) had both hip 
mounted rip cords and a SOS.  This container, in my humble opinion, is one 
of the best around.  It packs well, low profile, comfortable, velcro flaps 
to cover the risers, etc....

Anyone else have an opinion about the best student container?  I've never
seen a student vector but I would suspect that they are just as good as the
SweetHog if not better.

|> I don't think that many places use the three handles on the
|> chest configuration for students.

The Student Racers I jumped at Mid America Sport Paracute Center in
Taylorville, IL had three handels on a chest configuration.  I'm glad
I never had to use anything but the main rip cord.  If I remember
correctly, they put red tape on the reserve rip cord, the pud was
yellow, and the main was silver.  I don't think it would be too hard
for a student to get confused in an emergency situation.

Having personally jumped 3 differnt types of student gear at three
different drop zones, (this is what happens when you start jumping 
in college and you co-op every other semester in different locations)
I think I've seen both ends of the spectrum in student gear.

- Mark Timko
  A-11659

-- 

                  Mark A. Timko  (mtimko@ichips.intel.com)
      My opinions are mine, not my employer's - all disclaimers apply 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
 Never forget: A bad day skydiving is always better than a good day at work  
     Two wrongs don't make a right but three rights make a left ..... right?
From: dbriggs@zia.aoc.nrao.edu (Daniel Briggs)
Subject: Re: how often does this happen?
Organization: National Radio Astronomy Observatory, Socorro NM
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 12:43:08 GMT

In article <1992Aug31.110018.28750@pta.pyramid.com.au>
  bob@pta.pyramid.com.au (Robert Vernon) writes:

>FYI, (in case anyones actually interested in anything outside the US),
>in Australia, we use a different system for students.  The reserve
>deployment system is called SOS for Single Operation System.  Its a
>combined cutaway handle and reserve handle.  Makes it easier to train
>emergency procedures.  If anything's wrong, then pull the big yellow
>handle.  It also means that the main ripcord is on the right side, SOS
>handle is on the left.  Very hard to confuse the two.  Although an
>occasional student still attempts it.
>
>So how do you foreigners train the students to pick the correct
>handle.

Many DZs also use SOS systems for students.  I know my DZ does, though it
sounds like Tim's doesn't.  (Not necessarily a problem -- SOS systems are a
bit out of fashion now?)  There is a trend towards hip mounted ripcords for
students, to ease the transition to throw-out pilot chutes later.  Such
systems usually have separate cutaway and reserve handles in the normal
places.  Of course, in that system, handle confusion is less of a problem.
It's a trade off between adding to the student workload initially vs.
retraining later.  With an RSL making the cutaway handle functionally
equivalent to an SOS handle in many situations, I don't have much problem
with separate cutwaway & reserve handles for students.  My DZ is phasing in
new equipment with the hip mount configuration, as it seems to be way of
the future.  I don't think that many places use the three handles on the
chest configuration for students.  Remember also that a cutaway handle is
generally a pud.  Not only a different color, but a different shape than a
ripcord handle.  Just to get a grip on it, you have to move your arm in a
quite different manner than sticking a thumb through a ripcord handle.  It
would take some doing to pull it accidentally, though obviously some
students have managed it.

-- 
| Daniel Briggs  (dbriggs@nrao.edu)                      |        USPA B-14993
| New Mexico Tech / National Radio Astronomy Observatory |            DoD #387
| P.O. Box O / Socorro, NM 87801   (505) 835-7391        |
Support the League for Programming Freedom  (info from league@prep.ai.mit.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: mark@virtech.uucp (Mark Smith)
Subject: Re: PC's (nothing to do with computers)
Reply-To: mark@vti.com
Organization: Virtual Technologies, Inc.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 01:09:20 GMT

wine@stress1.nrl.navy.mil () wrote:
: ? To anyone that has used/packed a PC:  The manual compares the pack
: volumes of the various PC's with respect to the origional PC, but how
: big is that???  Can a PC fit in a Vector container (main).

I've packed plenty of PC's as well as jumped a few.  I can honestly
say I don't have a clue as to the actual pack volume in cubic inches,
but I can say that the fabric is *much* more tough (read thick) than
F111.  Consequently, the fill volume is much higher than what would
fit into a Vector.

(To get it out of a tree, you pulled it down... if you couldn't get
the tree to break, *then* you'd cut the tree down ;^>).

The ones that I jumped filled a container which was the entire length
of my back.  (The reserve was mounted on the front).  It fits into
what's called a sleeve (performs the analogous function of the "bag").

The container has these eight nasty-strong springs which yank open
the container flaps allowing the spring loaded pilot chute to jump out.
It is is held closed by three or four cone/pin ripcord pins (or by
breakcord for static line jumps).

: What changes have to be made to the packing instructions to do so?
: Does anyone do this? 

If you're determined to jump it, use the right container.  Go to the
source and ask your rigger.  He/She can probably point you towards
the right direction for information and functional equipment.

: I would like to jump a PC sometime, but I am concerned that any
: 'chute as old as PC's would not be airworthy.  Any advice?

Have your rigger check it out.  You'll need a belly reserve too.

P.S. Better review your PLF too.  It is possible to stand-up a PC,
     but it's not easy and it's not much fun either.  :-(
-- 
      /_\   Virtual                  Mark Smith          USPA D-13761
    /-~_  \    Technologies          mark@vti.com
  /      ~-_\     Incorporated       703-430-9247,   FAX 703-450-4560
/_____________\      46030 Manekin Plaza, Suite 160, Dulles, VA 20166
From: rwheeler@elf7.pa.dec.com (Rob Wheeler)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Re: how often does this happen?
Date: 2 Sep 92 00:41:42 GMT
Reply-To: rwheeler@pa.dec.com
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation

In article <1992Sep1.234342.12489@leland.Stanford.EDU>, eap@leland.Stanford.EDU (Eric Perozziello) writes:
|>Ok, time for some more 3rd hand innaccurate info  :^)
|>I talked to a guy in Byron right after this happened, and he said
|>that the guy cutaway from his main.  They said they thought it
|>might have been an attempted suicide, as the guy was having 
|>some sorta severe financial difficulty (now this is how rumors
|>start!). Didn't hear about the reserve ride, because my first question
|>was : didn't he have an RSL/AAD on reserve, or SOMETHING?


This sounds pretty bogus.  I had heard that the student pulled his cutaway
when he went to pull the main ripcord.  The mainside JM dumped out his main
which activated the reserve (via RSL).  The reserve came out with line twists
and nothing was done by the student to clear up the problem (the brakes were
still stowed).  There is some speculation that the guy might have had a heart
attack (he was getting up there in years).  I don't think that this is the
type of fatality one could rig up as a suicide.  He landed under a spinning
reserve.  It could have been survivable.  As for the financial troubles, I 
haven't heard about it.  He showed up to the DZ in a Rolls though.

I understand how these rumors get spread, but I don't think it is entirely
necessary to broadcast obviously incomplete or bogus information over something
like USENET.  Let's try to get the facts a little clearer.

-R
From: drp40@cd.amdahl.com (Douglas R Puchalski)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Re: AADs
Date: 2 Sep 92 23:10:01 GMT
Reply-To: drp40@cd.amdahl.com
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale, CA

In article <1992Sep2.192447.130@nntpd.lkg.dec.com>, koning@koning.enet.dec.com (Paul Koning) writes:
>
>This topic may well set off another vigorous debate, but I'll ask it anyway:
>I'm looking for opinions on AADs, specifically on the Cypres.  
>
>For example: (a) do you have one (b) do you want to get one, 
>(c) would you recommend them to others (in particular to those with modest 
>experience, e.g., around 80 jumps), (d) do you dislike them (if so, why?)
>
>Comments via Mail would be welcome, or post them if you want to help stir
>up the debate... :-)

AHHHHHHHHHH!!!  Here we go again!  Let's use email for this please!

-- 
Doug Puchalski						drp40@cd.amdahl.com
From: SKYDIVE@f15.n233.z1.fidonet.org (SKYDIVE)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Need Expert Advice...
Date: 26 Aug 92 22:08:00 GMT

Reply-to: Chad.Howard@p1.f1.n379.z1.fidonet.org (Chad Howard)
Fido-To: all

Hello all...
 
    I am intrested in taking my first try at Skydiving. I tried bungee 
jumping, but there is not enough "free fall" to suit me! I have no idea 
how to go about locating training centers, and would appreciate advice 
from the experts in this area. I live in the Charlotte, North Carolina 
area...
 
Thanks in advance...
 
Chad Howard

--- GEcho 1.00/beta
--- eecp 1.45 LM2 

 * Origin: The Transporter Room: 4lines 3.7gig 4 CD's 704/567-9513 (1:379/1.1)
--  
SKYDIVE - via FidoNet node 1:233/13
internet: SKYDIVE@f15.n233.z1.FIDONET.ORG
-- Check Source BBS, (217) 244-6954, HST, V.32, V.42bis ---
From: bchurch@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu (Robert Church)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Re: PC's (nothing to do with computers)
Date: 27 Aug 92 00:48:29 GMT
Organization: Ohio University School of Art. Athens

In article <3442@ra.nrl.navy.mil> (wine@stress1.nrl.navy.mil) writes:
>
>I heard that some boogies are having round - accuracy compatitions for fun.  ?TRUE/FALSE??
>
>I would like to jump a PC sometime, but I am concerned that any 'chute as old as PC's would not be
>airworthy.  Any advice?

By all means, try one out. You'll be amazed at how quiet it is. Prepare yourself
for the seemingly slow opening though. As to pack volume, the bulkiest square is
probably much less than half the bulk of a pc. 
If you do jump one remember a few things. Watch the low turns. They're not as
lethal as a square, but since they are slower it can take you longer to get
out of it and you can break a leg. Don't flare with the brake toggles. Either
land it at half brakes, when the steering vents are closed, or flare by pulling
down the back risers. When you pull the brake lines clear down you just invert
the steering vents and dump air. It's a lot of fun but not when you're close to
the ground. 



-- 
*********************************************
*    bob church                             *
*    bchurch@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu           *
*    D-8195 NFS #27                         *
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: dbriggs@zia.aoc.nrao.edu (Daniel Briggs)
Subject: Re: how often does this happen?
Organization: National Radio Astronomy Observatory, Socorro NM
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 92 23:18:22 GMT

In article <60027@mimsy.umd.edu>
  jerrys@umiacs.umd.edu (Jerry Sobieski) writes:
>I wouldn't try to train a student to stage a SOS deployment.  
>It is unnecessary and IMO risky.

I'd agree with this, but you *should* train them as to how it works.  In
particular, make it very clear that there are two stages to the deployment
of an SOS system.  It is quite possible to pull an SOS handle far enough to
cut away, but not far enough to trigger the reserve deployment.  If they
have a container lock or pilot chute in tow, this could be bad news.  We
train to pull the SOS handle hard, and then pull it again.  Make *very*
sure that you've pulled it to it's full extension.  (What else are you
going to use those last few seconds of freefall for, anyway?)

-- 
| Daniel Briggs  (dbriggs@nrao.edu)                      |        USPA B-14993
| New Mexico Tech / National Radio Astronomy Observatory |            DoD #387
| P.O. Box O / Socorro, NM 87801   (505) 835-7391        |
Support the League for Programming Freedom  (info from league@prep.ai.mit.edu)
From: SKYDIVE@f15.n233.z1.fidonet.org (SKYDIVE)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Please define a few abbreviations
Date: 2 Sep 92 05:02:18 GMT

Reply-to: Bill.Caefer@p0.f853.n102.z1.fidonet.org (Bill Caefer)
Fido-To: romulus!stout.atd.ucar.edu!nws

> CTAF 
  Common Traffic Advisory Frequency

> ATC
  Air Traffic Control

> IFR
  Instrument Flight Rules

> VFR 
  Visual Flight Rules


The others were covered by posts I have seen on my system already so I won't repeat them here.

Bill Caefer
SCSA-91

--- Maximus 2.01wb
--- eecp 1.45 LM2 

 * Origin: <X> Infinity Ltd.  HST/DS (1:102/853)
--  
SKYDIVE - via FidoNet node 1:233/13
internet: SKYDIVE@f15.n233.z1.FIDONET.ORG
-- Check Source BBS, (217) 244-6954, HST, V.32, V.42bis ---
From: lubkt@lehigh.edu (Binod K. Taterway)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Greetings ...
Date: 2 Sep 92 21:00:43 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University Computing Center

Greetings to the members of this group. I am an aspiring skydiver.
A friend of mine recently took a leap of faith and said it was the
most exhilerating experience. I look forward to the discussions
on this group.

-Binod.
From: ks@acn.purdue.edu (Kirk Smith)
Subject: Re: Dumpster accident
Reply-To: ks@acn.purdue.edu
Organization: Purdue University
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 12:26:04 GMT

From what I could tell, it wasn't a low hook turn into a dumpster.  It looked more
like straight and level flight towards a dumpster, followed by a last second effort
to turn away, which actually swung his legs towards the dumpster.

There may have been a little turbulence encountered which made his canopy veer
slightly towards the dumpster, but it looked like his entire final approach was
aimed at or near the dumpster.  It was not pretty.

						Kirk Smith


Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: tel@cbnews.cb.att.com (thomas.e.lester)
Subject: Re: the best
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 16:18:04 GMT
Keywords: illegal? sue me

	I am just a tad concerned about this thread.   I know I am 
	"just a lurker" and a pilot, but if I am 500 under a ceiling,
	the last thing I expect is to have a skydiver pop out of the
	cloud.   Its against reg.s and so I don't expect people to do it.
	(foolish me...)

	I certainly don't mean to condem any single individual, but the
	tone of this group seems to be one of dare devils seeing how
	far they can break the rules and get away with it.

	Is that part of the nature of people that sky dive ???

	Do I need to totally avoid DZ even on overcast days for fear 
	of someone breaking reg.s and dropiing on top of me ??

	

>I love those low clouds too. Often early in the morning you will find 
>some nice ones between 1000-3000 feet. By 10ish they rise away. Punching i
>them completly is not half as much fun as trying to just dip you feet in 
>em as you go down the side. I call it cloud surfing, and it is a rush!
>
>Safer then swarming blind through the clouds too. Still keep you ears open 
>for engines, and make sure no one else is under canopy nearby. 
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
	Why ???  So you know in advance you are going to die ??



-- 
	-----------------------------------------------------------------
	Tom Lester				att!cblph!tel
	Sonerai IIL (under TEST)		(614) 860-3259
	N4LX 					(614) 927-8106
From: yzarn@lhdsy1.lahabra.chevron.com (Philip Yzarn de Louraille)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Re: Clouds?! (was Re: the best)
Date: 27 Aug 92 18:26:18 GMT
Organization: Chevron Oil Field Research, La Habra, CA.

In article <9863@ncrwat.Waterloo.NCR.COM> tjgerman@ncrwat.Waterloo.NCR.COM (Trevor German) writes:
>
>>In article <1992Aug25.011031.21240@das.harvard.edu> galperin@endor.uucp (Greg Galperin) writes:
>> MANY LINES DELETED
>>>
>>>	By the way, does anybody know if a plane and skydiver have
>>>ever collided midair?  
>>>

There was a collision in the early 80's in the San Diego drop zone where a
skydiver hit a military plane (transport plane, if memory is good.)
The skydiver died and he, himself, was a military person (again, if memory
serves...)

-- 
  Philip Yzarn de Louraille                 Internet: yzarn@chevron.com
  Research Support Division                 Unix & Open Systems
  Chevron Information & Technology Co.      Tel: (310) 694-9232
  P.O. Box 446, La Habra, CA 90633-0446     Fax: (310) 694-7709
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: d6jvb@dtek.chalmers.se (Johan von Boisman)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: hot canopies
Date: 2 Sep 92 12:27:34 GMT
Organization: Chalmers University of Technology, Gothenburg Sweden


For the benefit of all us European skydivers who have started
planning this winter's trip to Florida and plan to get some
new gear, let's have a discussion about what's hot and what's
not. I'm not so shit-hot myself but wouldn't mind something
a little quicker than my Raider (which otherwise has been an
excellent canopy). So, what is your experience? Is it the
Jonathan, Nova or some other, or maybe the Sabre to be like 
everybody else?!

please followup.





--
Johan von Boisman          Chalmers University of Technology
d6jvb@dtek.chalmers.se     Gothenburg, SWEDEN
From: jerrys@umiacs.umd.edu (Jerry Sobieski)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Re: how often does this happen?
Date: 2 Sep 92 15:28:09 GMT
Organization: UMIACS, University of Maryland, College Park, MD 20742

In article <1992Sep1.231822.15308@zia.aoc.nrao.edu> dbriggs@zia.aoc.nrao.edu (Daniel Briggs) writes:
>In article <60027@mimsy.umd.edu>
>  jerrys@umiacs.umd.edu (Jerry Sobieski) writes:
>>I wouldn't try to train a student to stage a SOS deployment.  
>>It is unnecessary and IMO risky.
>
>I'd agree with this, but you *should* train them as to how it works.  In
>particular, make it very clear that there are two stages to the deployment
>of an SOS system.  

Quite true.  When I taught SOS systems, I did make sure they understood 
how they worked.

>It is quite possible to pull an SOS handle far enough to
>cut away, but not far enough to trigger the reserve deployment.  If they
>have a container lock or pilot chute in tow, this could be bad news.  We
>train to pull the SOS handle hard, and then pull it again.  Make *very*
>sure that you've pulled it to it's full extension.  

Like any other cables, when you pull an SOS (or dual systems) you
must make sure the cables clear the cable housing.  Those cables
should be completely clear of the gear.  

Jerry
-- 
Domain: jerrys@umiacs.umd.edu		    Jerry Sobieski
  UUCP:	uunet!mimsy!jerrys		University of Maryland
 Phone:	(301)405-6735		Institute for Advanced Computer Studies
 					College Park, Md 20742
From: buick@belay (Patrick D. Buick)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Re: LORAN System for Spotting
Date: 30 Aug 92 00:02:40 GMT
Organization: Belay Enterprises Inc. Calgary, Alberta, Canada

In article <3865@keele.keele.ac.uk> csa18@seq1.keele.ac.uk (R.J. Husmo) writes:
>matt@ra.oc.com (Matthew Lyle) writes:
>: mark@virtech.uucp (Mark Smith) writes:
>: 
>: >I was just sent a catalog with a GPS in it.  It fits into the palm
>: >of your hands and positions you to w/i 15 meters of anywhere on the
>: >earth.
>: 
>: Yup... so long as the DoD doesn't activate the in-accuracy circuit.  (it was
>: put in to prevent the enemy from being able to use our satalite locators. 
>: wonder if they're going to tell anyway, like airlines, when they turn it on?)
>: 
>I believe the inaccuracy circuit _is_ activated. The signals are probably
>phase-shifted (according to an algorithm only known by the military), thus
>making the system as unreliable as it is. After all, why should a civilian
>need to know where he is to within 30m (or whatever)?

Ever heard of Emergency Services?  We're not military (actually I am, but
this is civvy side)... and we occasionally do have a need for accurate
position information.  Take a rescue.. or just a search mission...
I'm in mountainous territory.. and there I don't want to be out by 
much on a rescue..

>Fortunately, it doesn't take too much ingenuity to circumvent the problem.
>Take any fixed object with a well known position, like, say, a lighthouse.
>Install a GPS in it. And then send out a continuous error-correction signal.
>(i.e. if the GPS tells us that the lighthouse is 150m to the east of where
>it is, this same error also occurs in all other GPS systems - but these
>other systems can't know the error until you tell them.)

Well, I don't know how they have done the inaccuracy stuff, since
it has been a few years since I worked on GPS systems, but I doubt
that it is as simple as making a single correction.  The error
(especially if it is a phase-shift) would be different depending upon
the satellite mix that you use to generate your position.

Patrick
-- 
==========================================================
Patrick D. Buick EMT, EET  | Internet: buick%belay@uunet.uu.net
Belay Enterprises Inc.     | Internet: buickp@cuug.ab.ca
Calgary, Alberta, Canada   | UUCP:...!calgary!pixel!belay!buick
From: davidm@slc.com (David Monnie)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Re: DZ's near Vancouver BC
Date: 30 Aug 92 06:19:24 GMT
Article-I.D.: slc.1992Aug30.061924.8779
Organization: Servio Corp, Beaverton Oregon, US

In article <1992Aug26.174832.7342@zellweger.ch> bisc@zellweger.CH (Thomas K. Bischoff) writes:
>I am going to visit some friends in Vancouver BC in october. I would also
>like do some jumps so I am looking for info (location,planes,etc)
>of drop zones near Vancouver.
>What's the the weather like in october. Is it good enough for skydiving?

If you can cross the border, October 10th to 12th, the NW Skydiving
Tour will be taking place in the San Juan Islands (a couple hours South
of Vancouver BC, in the state of Washington, USA).  The Islands are in
the Puget Sound, and it's very pretty there.  You can take ferrys there
from Sydney BC or Victoria.  I believe jumping takes place at a little
airport on the edge of the town of Friday Harbor.  I don't think it's a
regular DZ, so skydiving will probably only be during that particular
weekend.

Might see you there!

David Monnie
Servio Corp
Beaverton, OR
davidm@slc.com
From: yzarn@lhdsy1.lahabra.chevron.com (Philip Yzarn de Louraille)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Re: Why is 25-100 jumps a dangerous transition time ??
Date: 2 Sep 92 00:44:59 GMT
Organization: Chevron Oil Field Research, La Habra, CA.

In article <1992Sep1.112909.4012@ncar.ucar.edu> nws@stout.atd.ucar.edu (Eddie Roberts (The National Weather Service)) writes:
>
> 2 recent post have included a line or two saying that jumps
> 25-100 are the most dangerous ones.  This concerns me a lot since I 
> plan on having completed 20 jumps by the end of September. Why is this a
> dangerous period of time and what can I do to avoid these
> problems/dangers ?
>
Well, one could say that you are starting to feel comfortable (assuming
that you jump often) and your experience is minimal.

Anyone who jumps once in a while is in that position as well. People who have
1000's of jumps and have stopped for a few years and come back to the
sport also have these problems.
-- 
  Philip Yzarn de Louraille                 Internet: yzarn@chevron.com
  Research Support Division                 Unix & Open Systems
  Chevron Information & Technology Co.      Tel: (310) 694-9232
  P.O. Box 446, La Habra, CA 90633-0446     Fax: (310) 694-7709
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving