From: davidsen@ariel.crd.GE.COM (william E Davidsen)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.sysv386
Subject: Re: Dell SVR4 (and Dell hardware)
Date: 13 Aug 92 15:14:11 GMT
Reply-To: davidsen@crd.ge.com (bill davidsen)
Organization: GE Corporate R&D Center, Schenectady NY

In article <MISAWA.92Aug6184108@physics16.berkeley.edu>, misawa@physics16.berkeley.edu (Shigeki Misawa) writes:

| 	This brings up a question that I have had when trying to
| compare 386/486 based systems to Sparc based systems. Assuming that I
| could purchase Sun workstations at "university" pricing, I could get
| an ELC with 207 M disk for $ ~3.2k or a IPC with monitor and 207 M
| disk for $ ~3.6K. (I don't know if this includes the OS, but for the
| moment I will assume that it does). If I were to get an equivalent
| 386/486 system running UNIX SYS5r4 (say Dell SYS5R4) what would I be
| looking at in terms of price and components (ignoring for the moment
| the ethernet interface)?

  First, the Sun price probably includes "right to use" rather than the
O/S. That means that if you are on a net and have manuals around, you
can load the O/S and use it. Your purchase agreement may differ.

  Second, as I read the Dell price sheet, I believe you can get a nice
Dell 486 with monitor and unix for ~$4k, including the installation
media and the neat manual. It's not technical but covers getting the
system to do most of the things the user would want to do.

  On both systems the price does not include the cost of a media reader
for non-net installation; CD for Sun, tape for Dell.

| 	Now, suppose that I wanted to do X / C++ development (assume
| +50k lines of source code using gcc 2.2.2 and gdb and using InterView
| or just straight Xlib) + emacs + TeX + maybe the latest version of
| SPICE, how much more disk and "core" memory would I have to add ?
| (well, maybe delete SPICE)

  You probably would want 16MB on either machine. The Dell would run in
8MB, but you might want to compile without X running to save memory.
Note that while the Sun is really slow at scrolling with or without X,
the hardware text mode of Dell (or any PC based unix) is much nicer for
doing some things which involve lots of text.

| 	Next, assuming that I want to back up the system, would it be
| cheaper to get an ethernet card and hook up to the local Sun system
| and dump to the available 8mm tape or would it be cheaper to just pop
| for a QIC tape?

  A net card should be about $135 for a PC, and included with the Sun.

| 	Next, lets invert the problem, suppose I want to do X / C++
| development, run emacs, run TeX (and run x11r5 and tvtwm). How much
| disk and "core" would I need ? Given these constraints, what kind of
| cpu would I need to get "acceptable" performance (acceptable is not
| easily defined, but the system I use the most is an unloaded Sparc 1+
| with a local swap disk with 24 Meg and I think with a GX graphics card
| although I`m not sure about this last point) ? (oops, a floating point
| coprocessor is a definite requirement) 

  Since you're mentioning an IPC, I have and IPC and 486DX33, and the
486 will kick the IPC around the block on virtually everything. I didn't
spend the money for a display which does 1152x900 (or actually it does a
nice job but it's too small to read).

| 	Finally, with respect to the inverse problem, can a usable
| system be obtained for $~4k or is this an "in you dreams" wish list?

  I think you can do it from Dell at list, and maybe from Sun at
university pricing.
| 
| (Oops, a few other things. First, PC clones are fairly reliable, but
| what is the reliablilty of Sun workstations ? Next, what is the
| likelihood that the whole mess, clone or Sun, would require > $500
| worth of repairs within a 2 year period ? Next, assuming that some
| pieces are worth saving, will any of this junk be usable in the next
| system I buy? Finally, what sort of "administration" learning curve
| are we talking about for a non sys admin type ?)

  I think the Dell is much easier to do for just software development,
reading mail and news. And it comes with Cnews, GNUemacs, etc, etc, so
you don't have to get them off the net. And it comes with Motif, which
Suns don't, even if you buy them in really large quantities.

-- 
bill davidsen, GE Corp. R&D Center; Box 8; Schenectady NY 12345
    I admit that when I was in school I wrote COBOL. But I didn't compile.
Newsgroups: comp.unix.sysv386,alt.fan.john-palmer