From: wjin@cs.uh.edu (W. Woody Jin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
Subject: Re: Beating, seriously speaking.
Date: 8 Jan 1993 04:26:58 GMT
Organization: University of Houston
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodin.cs.uh.edu

In article <1993Jan8.004024.1147@news.acns.nwu.edu> phantom@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (James Choi) writes:
>
>This topic is not new to sck.  When I talked about this last time, a netter
>e-mailed me her story.  She studied outside Korea in her elementary school
>years and she started middle school in Korea.  One day she was beaten in
>front of the class, the usual routine stuff for the rest of them.  But she
>was paralized in shock.  It was an unbearable humiliation that she could
>not cope with.  She remained in shock for the rest of the day.

I think that it was because of sudden difference of cultural life.
If an American educated college graduate (I mean from elementary school) gets 
a job in Korea,  he/she may be even more embarrassed though there is no
beating in the company.  Korea, Japan,  and China  has culture that
teachers are respected and have authority (though not written in law). 
I believe that such situation is not specific to Korea.

>Each person sees and takes beating differently.  Maybe we were both treated
>about the same.  But I took it to my heart.  Maybe I was beaten once a week
>only.  But I still remember what I felt.
 ^^^^
Once a week *only* ?   
I don't recall that I was beaten in high school except from a highly
notorious math teacher who enforced a rule that any student who is under
pre-set cut-line in his test should be beaten, and of course, from military
training teacher (is there anyone who was not once beaten by this teacher ?).

>This is going off tangent.  But I would like to trigger some response by
>stating that the "rest" will remain the "rest" by and large.  And all that
>80% of the effort (mostly physical) that goes to correct these 2% "rests"
>could be redirected to provide more non-physical care for the mainstream.

In fact, it should be that way.
One problem is that the teachers are also human-beings who have limitations.
The current  60:1 students to teacher ratio makes it really difficult
for the teachers to give such cares.
There are other factors also.   The purpose of education is mostly
to pass the college enterance exam.  Teachers are concentrating only on
this matter.  They are driven by their superiors, and again their superiors
are driven by the students' parents, alumni and student body.

>I do not think anyone can be straightened out by beating.  They just remain
>with the "rest" except now they are beaten and bitter.

May be or may not be.  I saw both.
I do not support beating but I do not oppose that beating is sometimes 
necessary for education.

>I wonder what other people think of the merit of
>corporal punishment.  It is obvious that you never see "stay in school"
>posters on the street in Korea.  Does that have to do with the corporal
>punishment?  I think school will become even more violent if beating is
>introduced in the U.S.  Certainly more than a few teachers will be shot.

US and Korea have different culture.  Especially, concept of
"teacher" is very different.  Koreans never use such terms like
"buy education".

>>I strongly oppose that high school was such place.
>
>I gained this perspective because I went to high school in two different
>cultures.  The second half of my high school years was spent in a nice
>school where you can argue to corner your principal who came to your class
>to scold the classes bad manners.  In Korea, you do not even THINK about
>challenging the authority.  That's why it seems peaceful.

Well, back in 1974, I remember that all the students in my high school
did demonstration against the principal.  We originally gathered at
a public stadium and then was driven by the police to the school.
The issue was at that time that since the principal came the school's
reputation of high ratio of students' getting into colleges had been down
(and thus he should be kicked out).  Funny, isn't it ?

Koreans don't challenge the authority of teachers because they respect
teachers.  Even though no legal documents protect such authority,
it is the Koreans' minds that respect it.
I am sure that such respect will be dimished as individualism becomes
more properous.

>Before we state that Mang-ja's mother moved three times for nothing, I
>agree with your statement above.  The thing is how can a child think what
>is right or wrong if they grew up in it.  

This is the main point of the teachers who support rods.
They believe that children or teen-agers are not able to think correctly
and thus correct them using rods, which is purely for the children's sake.
Children should be guided so that they may think in right way.
I can do it for my kid without rod or angry loud voice, but
I am not sure for the teachers who should do the same thing for 60 students.

>Where do all the juvenile
>deliquents come from in the U.S.?  I dare to say that any child growing in
>that environment that breeds crime is likely to become one.  

Since no one corrects them, they are left as dangerous arms, who cannot
reason properly.  

>A child
>growing being beaten, and seeing someone being beaten, is just as likely to
>do the same.  Because they THINK it is O.K.

If the child is so much beaten that (s)he could not reason properly even
after he/she becomes a grown-up because of the side effect, I think that 
you are right.
But this is very rare case and happens everywhere in the world, 
and it is not the general situation of high schools in Korea.

>There has been many creative and lewd interpretations to the old saying
>"women should be beaten every third day."  Even as a metaphor, I would say,
>it is too cruel.  And those who lacks cretivity or DSB (deadly sperm
>build-up) to interpret this old proverb otherwise, may actually follow the
>advice.

I think that the above proverb already became an old joke.
I sometimes use that proverb to my wife as a joke. 
Then she sneers and hits ME.

>>And when you graduate from high school or retire from military service, 
>>you are no longer such a child who imitates bad things.
>
>Your fist is stronger, and have less people to stop you.  You are an
>example that children follow.  Granted, there are two sides of the same
>coin.  I heard that during Korean war, American POW in North Korea was
>dying of diaria from the food they got.  Meanwhile, some nation's POW were
>actually gaining weight from the same food.

This, I don't understand what you really wanted to say.

>Another questions that comes to my mind is "why so much on what children
>watches on TV?"  According to your statement above, TV should have no
>effect.

No effect, if parents guide them properly.  What children think is right
may not be right. It is the parents' responsibility to guide them correctly.
And matured grown-ups don't imitate what is wrong in TV.


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