From: kr3@ph3hp840.physik.uni-stuttgart.de ()
Subject: re: Estonia (repeat)
Organization: Physikalisches Institut, U of Stuttgart, Germany
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 01:31:05 GMT

Before I managed to write this, Mr. Kalev Kask (kkask@ics.uci.edu) 
said practically all that I wanted to express on the subject.

Still, I would like to thank Mr. Ivan A.Derzhanski (iad@cogsci.ed.ac.uk)
for his answer to my posting. In particular, I agree with him
when he writes:

>(1)  The nation didn't.  The re'gime ruling the country in which that
>nation resides did.  This doesn't make the nation responsible, particularly
>given that it was itself subject to the same "raping" process.

I don't think I wrote that the nation was responsible. However, since it
was interpreted as such a statement, let me repeat: I think that if
there was evil committed in the name of a given nation, even against
its will, then representatives of this nation should at least reflect
on this and show some sensitivity towards the other nation which
was wronged. I cannot see a minimal dose of such a sensitivity in
the Russian-Estonian discussion.

As for using the term `nation' - there is little doubt that the
Estonian-Russian problem is based on the ethnicity conflict. Just
chosing the languge question as the reason of the conflict gives it
immediately an ethnic character.


In turn, alexei@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Alexei Moiseyev) writes:

>That nation WAS the Soviet Union to which Russians "belonged" as much
>as the Balts.  And anyway, have you ever heard of Latyshskie Strelki?
>                                                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>I really am not trying to pick a quarrell here.  I just want to draw
>you attention to the fact that Communism has about as much to do with
>Russia as with any other country that has had the misfortune of having
>been "Communist" at some point in its history.

I am not picking a quarrel, either. I have heard about the `Strelki'. 
I agree that the October Revolution was organized and run by a bunch of 
cosmopolitans who had no national sentiments whatsoever. However, it
was run in Russia of all countries, and very quickly the policy of the 
Soviet Russia (yes, that was the name of the country for the first 5
years or so) fell into the well-marked track of the old Russian 
imperialism. Hence the recovery of (almost) all parts of the Russian 
empire which had been lost due to the revolutionary chaos. The events 
of 1939/1940 (the war with Finland, the annexation of eastern half of 
Poland, Moldova, the Baltic States) were little else than an attempt 
to recover the territorial losses Russia did not regain in the 
1918-1922 period.

Sure enough this was done under false pretenses, but the feeling of
the subdued people was quite generally such that it was the
`Russians' who fell upon them, and not the `Soviets'. The
participation of the local nomenclatura could not change it since
in any country on earth there will be a sufficient number of
people who will be ready to collaborate.

The self-identification of the Soviet rulers with the image of
Russia was increasingly visible during the years of their power.
Even before WWII Stalin supported the large-scale movie
pictures like "Ivan the Terrible" by Eisenstein, which praised
`Matushku Rassiju' above all. During the war, as was already
rightly mentioned, he played even much more on the genuine
Russian patriotism in order to save his skin and the whole system.
Evidently, with success.

I realize very well that the Russians suffered more from communism than
probably any other nation, at least in terms of absolute numbers,
perhaps even in relative numbers. However, this in no way influenced
the attitude of the conquered people for whom the Soviet Union
was simply an occupying power. In their eyes, they were being wronged 
by the `Russians' without deliberating the nuances. This might
explain, though not necessarily justify, the problems Russian
population e.g. of Estonia now faces.


Regards, Jeremi Krawczyk


Oh, I almost forgot to thank Mr. Verbitsky (verbit@coolidge.harvard.edu)
for his contribution to the discussion. He certainly set a new (at least 
to me) standard for `flame wars' which will be difficult to match. 
Congratulations on joining Argic/Mutlu in my KILL file.








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