From: mark@trillian.jsc.nasa.gov (Mark Manning)
Newsgroups: misc.forsale.computers
Subject: Re: DO NOT DEAL WITH BOBS@APLCEN.APL.JHU.EDU
Date: 13 Aug 92 16:07:00 GMT
Organization: Simulacron I

In article <BsvyKB.KAM@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, berger@atropa (Mike Berger) writes:
> Why should "everybody" have the chance to get their bid in?  When
> local stores advertise limited quantities, you don't expect
> everybody in town to have an equal chance.  Whoever gets there
> first has the first opportunity.
> 
> Likewise, if I submit an offer over the net, it's not a matter of
> "if you don't accept my offer then I don't want it" as you stated.
> I expect, if I am the first to make a reasonable, serious, offer,
> an opportunity to negotiate.  If we can't come to an agreement,
> fine, but otherwise I don't expect to wait a week or two so
> "everybody else has a chance to get their bid in".
> 
> If you'd rather pit your potential customers against each other,
> that's your prerogative.  Just let me know up front so I can
> shop elsewhere.
> --
> 	Mike Berger
> 	Department of Statistics, University of Illinois
> 	AT&TNET     217-244-6067
> 	Internet    berger@atropa.stat.uiuc.edu
> 

Mike,

   You are equating two separate ideals.  OBO is saying "auction"
while LIMITED SUPPLIES means there are only a few items available.
Usually, though not always, the two are not used in conjunction
with each other.  With limited supplies, a given price is stated
and wanted by the sellor.  Whereas, with OBO you may only have
a single item and the sellor is attempting to obtain their best
price for the item in question.

  Now let's talk about the "everybody".  Mike, YOU are a part of
this "everybody".  I, am a part of this "everybody".  If, as you
state, you do not wish to be included in this "everybody", then
why are you even here?  Obviously you are not "anybody" if you
do not wish to be included in the "everybody" who wishes to read,
bid, and otherwise participate in this part of the net.  Is this
so?  Then why do you even bother posting?  Since you do post though,
I can only assume you wish to be included in this "everybody", this
vast network of users, this forum where "everybody" can sell, buy,
or just look at the wares which are being presented.  Really Mike,
"everybody"?  Can't we keep to the subject?

  Next let's talk about the misquote which you posted.  Please Mike,
as a friend of my once said: "If you can't state what I say correctly,
the don't state me at all!"  You posted, incorrectly,

"if you don't accept my offer then I don't want it"

when what I really said was:

"In your own case (and possibly others) you would probably
simply submit a bid and, if it wasn't the highest, you'd probably
just say you didn't want it."

There is a big difference between the two.  My response was based upon
your previous message which stated, in general terms, that you would
submit a bid and if it wasn't the best given that you would not only
not buy the item but would not want it as well.  Your quote reduces this to
a petty, childish whine.  Which was not my intent at all.  Indeed, I
intended by my remark to leave open the possibility that you might
still try a higher bid - which is your perrogative.  That is why I said
"probably" - because I can not read your mind and thus leave to you
what is yours. :)

   Finally, comes the question of bidding itself.  What is bidding?
Is it a ferocious, stab someone in the back, attempt to kill, maim,
and render your opponent senseless?  No.  At least, it doesn't have
to be.  However, any type of auction, whether it is for a horse, a house,
or a computer, requires the repeated attempts by various buyers, to
purchase the object in question.  Do you think a horse, on auction,
is won by the first person to hold up their hand?  Pull their ear?
Rub their nose?  Nonsense.  The bidding moves from person to person
until a final price has been reached.  The same holds true for OBO.
With OBO you have thrown open the door for an auction to take place.
If you get one bid - then you take it.  If you get fifty - then you
get to select from the best bid AND, IF you have any smarts at all,
you will reset the bid on the board so everyone can see what the
current going price is for the item.  In this way, if no one else
sends you mail, you know you have reached the best price for the
item.  Otherwise - how would you know?  After all, we aren't all
in the same room and can neither see each others faces, nor hear
each others laughs, smiles, and the million other expressions a
person can come up with.

   The ball is in your court - what do you wish to express now?

   As a postscript, I have to say that this is the second post
you have made which simply states the same quantitative end.  Or
in other words "Me First".  In conjunction with this I've also
notice the "If you don't play by my rules then I don't want to play"
kind of kid games.  Don't take me wrong.  You can play these games
for as long as you wish it's just that what you are saying equates
down to this.  Just like what I'm say could be equated to "children
play fairly".  Do we really need to continue in this spin cycle?
I hope not.  It doesn't get us anywhere and can only send any kind
of a normal relationship down the drain.  Later.
Xref: sparky misc.forsale.computers:29801 misc.forsale:23634 tx.forsale:191