From: tensmekl@infonode.ingr.com (Kermit Tensmeyer)
Subject: Re: LDS are not EV Christians
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 15:02:51 GMT

In article <1992Oct12.182801.13150@phillip.edu.au> lbarrass@phillip.edu.au writes:
>
>> 
>>   Original Sin is a Post Biblical and Post Apostolic Heresy. LDS do not belive
>>   in Original Sin. They and others belive that Christ and all others born are
>>   free from Original Sin. The results of Adam's being Cast Out is that we
>>   die.  Christ provides the way that we can live again through the resurection.
>> 
>     For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one 
>   man's obedience many will be made righteous  -- Rom 5:19
>
>
>>   Do you as an Evangelical "Christian" believe in the Orthodox Christian
>>   doctrine of the Resurrection? Do you belive that Christ died so that all
>>   can and will be resurrected?  
>
>  Yes, I believe in the orthodox Christian doctrine of the resurrection, which
>I don't believe says that Christ died so that all could be resurrected, rather
>that he died so that all who accept, may have their sins forgiven. 
>                                                           
>  All will be resurrected for the final judgement, regardless of whether they
>are a Christian or not. See Rev 20 etc


  Yes, Resurrection is universal, the Justified in Christ to be resurrected
  in resurrction of the Just and the rest will be resurrcted later.

  It is by the pure grace of Christ, that all will be saved from _death_.
  I believe that Jesus died also to save Man _from_ his sins, but not
  to redeem Man in his sins.


 
>>   If you do not believe in the basic tenents of Christianity, perhaps
>>   we should be discussing why EV's have abandanded Christianity for
>>   another God.
>> 
>  That the same "All other churches are apostate" line that LDS and the like
>have said right from the beginning. I do believe in the basic tenets of
>Christianity .. but not those of the Mormon "christianity".
>

 It appears that most of what _you_ espose is non-biblical add-ons

 I.E. Christ must have been born Sinless and that no other Child has
 been born with out the attachment of Sin. [ That is how this discussion
 got started]  I believe (and most likly most other LDS believe that
 Jesus was not born in sin. I believe that all childern are not born in
 Sin.

 Your extra-biblical theories as to _why_ Christ was born without Sin
 make no sense, are not necessary but are an essential part of American
 Evagelical "Christianity."   It follows what has been discribed in this
 usenet group as heresy.


>>>> Mormons have a simpler solution to the overall problem: Children are
>>>> born without sin. Children who die with out baptism before they are
>>>> accountable are believe to return to the presence of God.


>>>  Christians too, believe that children are not accountable until "a certain
>>>  age" - whatever that may be, we don't however, say they are born sinless! 
>>>  And we don't believe that you need baptism to be saved as it is just 
>>>  as much a "work" as any other act. Baptism is of course very important 
>>>  and every believer should be baptised.

>> 	You don't belive that baptism is a requirment. why is this?


>   Baptism is a command and I believe all Christians AS BELIEVERS should be
>   baptised. I don't believe in Baptismal regeneration i.e. salvation through
>   baptism. The Bible clearly shows that salvation is a personal response to God
>   and that it is by Grace through Faith (not by works). Baptism is a symbol (an
>   antitype as seen in 1 Peter). All the verses refering to Baptism as saving a
>   person are usually quoted out of context and are used as the basis of a works
>   based doctrine. The Boston Church of Christ (and affiliates) also teach this,
>   as well as the R.C. (and some protestant) churches. If we are saved by grace,
>   then how possibly can a work of baptism save us?? We are saved by the answer of
>   a good concience towards God (can't remember the verse but if you know the
>   Bible you will recognise it!). Baptism is the external symbol of our faith, not
>   the culmination or initiation of it.
>

 LDS would say that the convenant of Baptism is nesscery as a commitment
 to God and that since it is a requirment by God, one should not oppose
 those requirments. LDS would also say that being baptised is insufficent
 unless the individual has been reborn in Christ throught the Regeneration of
 the Holy Ghost.  No unclean person can enter into the Kingdom of God.


 Little children not having yet sinned have yet left the kingdom of God.

 "unless one is born again and becomes as a little child, one will not
 enter the kingdom of God."


>>          Kermit Tensmeyer                         | Intergraph Corporation
>> Life is sometimes a bowl of Cherries; Watch out for the pits;
>>    klt@kt8127.b23a.ingr.com                       | 
>
>
>
>-- 
>                                               []
>                                            [][][][]
>                                               []
>                                               []
>                                               []   2Chron 7:14
>================================================================================
>lbarrass@phillip.edu.au                     Lindsay     
>================================================================================


-- 
         Kermit Tensmeyer                         | Intergraph Corporation
Life is sometimes a bowl of Cherries; Watch out for the pits;
   klt@kt8127.b23a.ingr.com                       |