HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Subject: Re: Autopsy - Kahane and Rosenbaum
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 00:05:14 GMT

In <1992Nov13.210236.23400@news.ysu.edu> ah287@yfn.ysu.edu (Murray Kahl) writes:

>Curious how Rav Kahane (z'tl) has become rather main stream while his
>opponents are adopting the tactics that he was accused of so
>vehemently.

I see no evidence for the assertion that the departed "has become rather
mainstream".

>I assume you feel the democratic process entitled Israel to ban Kach
>from running for the Knesset and yet allowed Arab parties to
>participate in democracy.

I have stated before that I would prefer that Israel enact a
constitution and a bill of rights and then allow even racist parties.
Under these circumstances I would have supported the right of the
departed to enjoy rights which he would deny to me.

It is incorrect, however, to compare the departed with the Arab
parties currently in the Knesset - an Israeli Arab party whose
platform was offering Jews a choice between being second-class
citizens and being expelled would not need to be banned as all of its
candidates would find themselves in jail.

It is also incorrect to act as if the departed's tactics consisted
merely of parlimentary efforts.  His opponents confined themselves to
legal means, something that the departed did not.

>I spoke to him in Miami, a Sunday evening, the evening before he was
>so brutally murdered in NYC, and he was a loving man. He asked for
>nothing more than respect from his Muslim opponents and displayed a an
>unusually strong ahavat Yisrael.

I heard the departed speak on a number of occasions and all I heard
was hate: hate for Muslims, hate for Jews who opposed him (at his
funeral, the chant was "Death to the Arabs!  Death to the leftists!").
He did not ask for "respect from his Muslim opponents", he demanded
that they either subjugate themselves to him or leave.
-- 
/|/-\/-\          Adif tzav pinui metzav shmoneh.
 |__/__/_/    
 |warren@     
/ nysernet.org 			    Jerusalem
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: droth@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (David Roth)
Subject: Re: Mathematical Proof of G-d?
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 00:41:15 GMT

Pi != Pi means, not Pi factorial equals Pi, but Pi is not equal to Pi.

!= is a CS notation for not equal.

David
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: Seth Ness <ness@aecom.yu.edu>
Subject: warren's sig
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <Seth Ness <ness@aecom.yu.edu>>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 14:47:28 GMT

with all this controversy, could someone provide the real translation of
warren's sig? all i can get out of it is "better is a command to empty
than a command of eights"



Seth L. Ness                         Ness Gadol Hayah Sham
ness@aecom.yu.edu                      




Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: jcohen@sco.COM (Jon Cohen)
Subject: Re: Oral Sex
Organization: The Santa Cruz Operation, Inc.
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 22:59:17 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.jewish
Keywords: oral sex



>Nasser@leland.Stanford.Edu (Hima Vatti)> writes:

<Can someone tell me if oral sex is against Judaism?
 My girlfriend is Jewish, and she doesn't..> etc., etc.

The problem may be that you aren't bathing enough. A
strong, musky odor can be a real trurnoff to American
women. This may be especially true of Jewish women, who
have a heritage of ritual hygiene and cleanliness.

If something about you suggests a past history of buggery,
or if you have confessed this to your girlfriend, she may
be avoiding oral sex with you for reasons of safety.
In other words, she may feel that "safe sex" with you
is all right as far as intercourse, but that oral
sex with condoms and the other protection indicated by your
past shennanigans (a Yiddish word) is simply not worth the
trouble.

You might have better luck finding a Jewish male who
is willing to let you perform oral sex on him, providing
you are bathing enough. But I doubt you will find one who is
willing to reciprocate.


*******
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,misc.headlines,talk.politics.misc
From: jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni)
Subject: Re: Say it ain't so
Organization: The Department of Redundancy Department
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 22:27:19 GMT

In article <1992Nov10.030045.12449@panix.com> eck@panix.com (Mark Eckenwiler) writes:
>In <1992Nov6.171416.16625@bony1.bony.com>, jake@bony1.bony.com sez:

>>For those of you who are not aware of NYC politics right now, Mayor
>>Dinkins doesn't have much credibility among white New Yorkers, nor
>>with the Police Department.  The noisy police demonstration a month
>>ago followed the shooting death of a drug dealer by a policeman, after
>>which the Mayor rushed to the drug dealer's family to comfort their
>>loss, while criticizing the police.  Mayor Dinkins is making the
>>already difficult job of law enforcement in NYC even more difficult.  
>
>As one of Livni's apparently fungible white New Yorkers, I feel free
>to scoff at this rather broad assessment.  Jake's biases are evident
>from his characterization of the demo as "noisy"; the fact is that New
>York's Finest trampled private vehicles, assaulted citizens who
>happened to get in their way (above ground and in the subway), and
>called Mayor Dinkins a variety of interesting racial epithets.  I
>doubt that Jake would describe an Al Sharpton-led rally as "noisy" if
>it involved a crowd screaming "kike" at ex-mayor Koch.

I wasn't present at the police demonstration and am not reporting as a
journalist.  If it'll make you happy, then I'll describe it as a riot.
There.  Now half of your silly posting is pointless.

>>I don't trust the police for everything, either, but that doesn't
>>automatically mean that they can never tell the truth.  Juries are
>>being prodded by the words and actions of Mayor Dinkins to distrust
>>the police mightily.
>
>Anyone who believes this lacks any sense of the NYPD's recent history.
>The cases of Michael Stewart, Eleanor Bumpurs, and any other number of
>suspiciously dead arrestees have done far more to make New Yorkers
>distrust their cops.

As I recall, the charges of improper action and brutality were lodged
against the police (indeed, these charges have become routine).  I
believe that the police have generally been found innocent of these
charges.  

Lemrick Nelson's lawyer used this mistrust in a highly theatrical
presentation to convince the jury that the police, by not recording
every single detail in a RIOT situation, had in fact made it all up
instead of living through it.  And the jury lapped it up.

-- 
Jake Livni  jake@bony1.bony.com              10 years from now, George Bush will
American-Occupied New York                   have replaced Jimmy Carter as the
My opinions only - employer has no opinions. standard of a failed President.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: mandel@litp.ibp.fr (Arnaldo MANDEL)
Subject: Re: G-d or G*d?
Organization: Chaos
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 09:59:25 GMT
Full-Name: Arnaldo MANDEL

-ll -nsw-rs -r- wr-ng! Th- r--l r--s-n -s t- m-k- -t l--k l-k- H-br-w.
--
............................................................
Arnaldo Mandel   ---  am@ime.usp.br
Temporarily: mandel@litp.ibp.fr
From: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Kosher pork in the diabetic?
Date: 23 Nov 92 17:09:44 GMT
Reply-To: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology
In-reply-to: rubinoff@linc.cis.upenn.edu (Robert Rubinoff)

In article <98851@netnews.upenn.edu>, rubinoff@linc (Robert Rubinoff) writes:
>No, anything that you eat or drink is subject to the rules of kashrut.  That
>includes medicines.  However, since medicine is frequently needed to preserve
>life or health, the dietary restrictions may be overridden; this depends on
>the details of the particular case.

This is all wrong.  The dietary laws simply do not apply to medicine
in the first place, even when eaten or drunk.
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
Xref: sparky soc.culture.jewish:20251 misc.headlines:7078 talk.politics.misc:60597 misc.legal:20069
From: dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,misc.headlines,talk.politics.misc,misc.legal
Subject: Re: Say it ain't so
Date: 17 Nov 92 18:10:30 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <Bxv6vr.Dyu@world.std.com> srm@world.std.com (Stevens R Miller) writes:
>>With a lawyer who
>>knows that there are legal loopholes large enough to drive a truck
>>through, the teenager may well be instructed to deny everything. 
>
>The Fifth Amendment is now a legal loophole?

The fifth ammendment does not give you the right to purjure yourself.
It only gives you the right to refuse to answer questions.  It does
not give you the right to deny the truth.
-- 
  |)  David Charlap          | .signature confiscated by FBI due to
 /|_  dic5340@hertz.njit.edu | an ongoing investigation into the
((|,)                        | source of these .signature virusses
 ~|~
From: tichauer@valpso.hanse.de (Manfredo Tichauer)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Kosher pork in the diabetic?
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 92 16:02:15 +0100
Organization: "The Private Site of Manfredo Tichauer"

esafern@shearson.com (Eric Safern) writes:

> Please CYLOR first, however.

  What means CYLOR?
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Manfredo Tichauer M.                       EMAIL : tichauer@valpso.hanse.de
  Opitzstrasse 14                            VOICE :     (++ 49 40)  27.42.27
  2000 Hamburg 60 - GERMANY                  FAX   :     (++ 49 40) 270.53.09
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: cohen@quartz.ciw.edu (Ronald Cohen)
Subject: Re: Halacha when the decisive facts were wrong (was Re:
Date: 20 Nov 92 04:05:20 GMT
Organization: Geophysical Laboratory, CIW

In article <LERNER.92Nov19171620@tune.cs.columbia.edu> lerner@cs.columbia.edu (Michah Lerner) writes:
>In article <19Nov92.205459.15910@granite.ciw.edu> cohen@quartz.ciw.edu (Ronald Cohen) writes:
>
>>>
>>>   Another example is "electricity is fire" which is false.
>>>   -- 
>>>   Ronald Cohen
>>>   Geophysical Laboratory, Carnegie Institution of Washington
>>>   5251 Broad Branch Rd., N.W.,  Washington, D.C. 20015
>>>
>
>Electricity has been observed to burn any object that is placed
>between two charged electrodes, giving substantial evidence that it
>has the properties which we generally ascribe to fire.

Nonsense.  Electricity never burned anything.  Electricity can
start a fire or cause oxidation, but so can friction or even
water, for that matter, if applied to certain substrances.  Air
can also cause somethings to burn.  That does not make water fire,
earth fire, air fire, or electricity fire.
-- 
Ronald Cohen
Geophysical Laboratory, Carnegie Institution of Washington
5251 Broad Branch Rd., N.W.,  Washington, D.C. 20015
From: bc744@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark Ira Kaufman)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Jonathan Pollard...
Date: 23 Nov 1992 04:49:14 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


   I am not in the habit of breaking net ettiquite by a publicly
posted piece of e-mail.  As a matter of fact, I never have.  But
I recently received a piece of mail that had been so soaked in a 
bath of bigotry, that I had to share it with you.  It might be a
bit embarrassing for the sender, but I frankly don't care.  When
I looked at the subject("The Treasonist Jew Pollard"), I saw the 
handwritting on the wall.  The author did not disappoint me.  He
lived up to the promise of a true anti-semite.   

Here a a few pearls...

   "I consider Israel an enemy of the United States, and thus it is 
obvious that Pollard is a treasonist."

   "The mossad is still the premier international terrorist group 
extant."  

   "Israel continues to buy it's way into the American treasury via 
AIPAC and the ADL."

   And my favorite...
   
   "Weinberger may be Episcopalian, but his grandfather was none-
theless Jewish, which also makes Weinberger Jewish.  Remember, YOU 
CAN'T BE A LITTLE BIT JEWISH!"


   These little tidbits were all in the same piece of mail.  The
sender took umbrage with me have called him an anti-semite.  The
same man who sent a letter entitled "The Treasonist Jew Pollard"  
could not understand why I called him an anti-semite.
From: "robert winkler" <robert.winkler@canrem.com>
Subject: jewish movies on video?
Reply-To: "robert winkler" <robert.winkler@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: soc
Date: 20 Nov 92 10:51:38 EST

    About Space Balls...  I think its characters are almost all Jewish,
but largely due to the fact that Star Wars & other movies it pokes fun
of were made, produced, etc. by mostly Jews (Spielberg, Lucas, etc).
    Yoda's words, however, are deeply philosophycal: The shwarz be with
you...

    Robert
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: cohen@quartz.ciw.edu (Ronald Cohen)
Subject: Re: Conversion Question
Date: 18 Nov 92 01:42:24 GMT
Organization: Geophysical Laboratory, CIW

In article <isaac.722036145@etrog> isaac@etrog.se.citri.edu.au (Isaac Balbin) writes:
>Please. We are more than a people. We are also a religion and our religion
>does not allow us to bow to manifestations of Judaism that our sages
>tell us are wrong.
>
>You are entitled to your view Stanley, but I maintain that yours
>is a flawed view. The only reality I accept is the one called
>Torah. From where I stand, according to our sages, the other
>manifestations of Judaism are not valid.
>Reality is something that hasn't hit YOU.
>The Reality is that Orthodox Judaism will never accept new definitions
>that are not halachikally mandated.
>When that Reality hits you a few times you will cease wasting our time
>by trying to convince us that we should accept every strain of 
>Judaism invented since Kingdom come.
>
>
>When you are Orthodox
>	YOU WILL NOT ACCEPT DEFINITIONS OF JUDAISM WHICH RUN AGAINST THE 
>	TRADITION. NEVER.


I must admit I'm getting tired of this thread that I helped start.
I naively thought maybe some _useful_ and _productive_ dialogue
could result.  I WAS WRONG!  I thought that basically the
Conservative and Orthodox movements were in agreement, except
about a small number of issues such as women, conversion,
marriage, divorce, and wine.  I thought given the huge amount of
agreement maybe I could learn why these small number of
differences lead to some misunderstandings.

However, I now see that the gulf is gigantic, and the orthodox
movement as represented here, is what I would call "mind
police" theology.  According to them, it doesn't matter what you
do, its just whether you toe the party line.  And it really is
politics, as far as I can tell, and not a Jewish argument at all.

I have had many orthodox friends and relatives, and study Talmud
with an orthodox teacher, and never before now did I know how
arrogant and anti-intellectual the orthodox movement is until
reading it here.  I certainly hope the orthodox writers to this
news group do not represent the movement.  This whole discussion
has certainly enhanced my belief in the Conservative movement as
being the only correct, authentic and modern approach to Judaism.
The so-called orthodoxy portrayed here is not orthodoxy, it is
Shtettl Judaism.

All this garbage about "we are the only true and divine carriers
of the torch of Torah" is such nonsense.  What I see here is
just a bunch of right-wing fundamentalists that remind me of the
Khomeni hoards rather than Jews.

I just hope this discussion doesn't discourage anyone out there
from being more observant, studying and learning Talmud and Torah,
etc.  
-- 
Ronald Cohen
Geophysical Laboratory, Carnegie Institution of Washington
5251 Broad Branch Rd., N.W.,  Washington, D.C. 20015
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll)
Subject: Re: Kach Policies
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 02:52:50 GMT

In <1992Nov17.011225.20306@ennews.eas.asu.edu>
makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky) writes:

>	However, how can the liar who called the newspaper be justified within
>any Jewish context?

Unless Makowsky has proof that the person who called the newspaper is
a liar, he has slandered another Jew, and committed lashon hara,
something totally against the Judaism he purports to support.  I'm
sure that Kahane, with his famed Ahavat Yisrael, would censure Mr.
Makowsky for that action.

(See, Makowsky?  It's easy to play that game.)

--
David F. Skoll
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: nobby@byron.u.washington.edu (Vitaly Shmatikov)
Subject: Re: Jews in Banks
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 05:45:20 GMT

In article <1en3i7INN3de@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> aq817@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Steve Crocker) writes:
>
>OK Guys, I'll bite, What ARE the 10 largest banks in the world?
>
>-Steve

I couldn't resist and dug up a piece of trivia to quench your curiosity
(all data are given as of 12/31/90).

1. Dai-Ichi Kangyo Bank				Tokyo
2. Sumitomo Bank				Osaka
3. Mitsu Taiyo Kobe Bank			Tokyo
4. Sanwa Bank					Osaka
5. Fuji Bank					Tokyo
6. Mitsubishi Bank				Tokyo
7. Credit Agricole Mutuel			Paris
8. Banque Nationale de Paris			Paris
9. Industrial Bank of Japan			Tokyo
10. Credit Lyonnaise				Paris

I believe the talk about "Jews in banks" should be dumped for good.
The *biggest* American bank (Citibank) is only 26th worldwide and,
lo, it's not controlled by Jews yet.

Now let's proceed to "Jews in American businesses". I just have
the appropriate statistics handy and can't wait to post it :-)

Nobby
nobby@u.washington.edu
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Kahane
Date: 19 Nov 92 08:17:12 GMT
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs

In <6NgguB1w165w@corner.wpb.fl.us> murray@corner.wpb.fl.us (Murray Kahl) writes:

>Quite the contrary, as we have politicians the likes of Ghandi advocating
>expulsion

You're right, the fact that Ghandi can get three seats and that the
Likud put him in the coalition scares me.  That the departed did
not consider the success of Moledet a victory for himself doesn't make
me feel any better about this.

>Exactly whom do you feel the Arab members of the Knesset represent if not 
>the PLO? Unfortunately for us, their intentions are not that kind, as to 
>make Jews second class citizens. 
>All one has to do is ask the family of Helena Rapp, the 15 year old school 
>girl who was just sliced up at a bus stop in Bat Yam.

I was not aware that Helena Rapp was murdered by one of the Arab
Members of Knesset.  Perhaps you consider it reasonable to conclude
from actions of a number of members of a given ethnic group that all
members of this group are guilty?

>Kahane was a
>saintly figure, the victim, the scapegoat, the paradoxically gentle man of
>violence with a weapon in one hand and a mea culpa in the other.

The departed was a victim of murder.  He was not a scapegoat - he
deserved the criticism that he received.  I find no paradox: he
*was* a man of violence.

>I challenge you to substantiate that Kahane demanded that his foes subjugate 
>themselves to him or leave. In contrast to your words, I heard him say many 
>times that he does not want their love, he wants their respect.

It is the Arabs to whom he offered the choices of either submitting
themselves to the Jews or to leave the country.
-- 
/|/-\/-\          Adif tzav pinui metzav shmoneh.
 |__/__/_/    
 |warren@         "Warren's slogan is an Anti-semite slogan."
/ nysernet.org 			    Gideon Ehrlich
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: What is "GLATT" in reference to Kosher airline food?
From: Yaakov Kayman <YZKCU@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Monday, 23 Nov 1992 16:36:41 EST
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center

In article <1992Nov23.204357.18063@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca>,
jgoldber@todah.chem.utoronto.ca (Joel Goldberg) says:
>
>In article <41483@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> ph105fcd@sdcc14.ucsd.edu (Matthew
Harrington)
writes:
>>I've been informed by the FAQ for rec.travel.air that Kosher meals
>>on airlines are "glatt" and "double sealed."  What do these terms
>>mean?
> It means that there are no wrinkles in the plastic wrap sealing the
> meals.

"Cute!", :-)-   but actually "glatt," Yiddish for "smooth," means no
adhesions, lesions, or such in the animal's lungs. Certain segments of
Jewry, e.g., Sefaradim and certain Chassidic Hungarians, regard "glatt"
meat (beef, veal, dunno about venison; there is no such thing as glatt
kosher fowl) as the only meat that's kosher. This is not fanaticism,
but is rather the way their Torah scholars and sages interpret Jewish
Law.

Yaakov K.
--------
Yaakov Kayman      (212) 903-3666       City University of New York

BITNET:   YZKCU@CUNYVM        "Lucky is the shepherd, and lucky his flock
Internet: YZKCU@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU     about whom the wolves complain"
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,misc.headlines,talk.politics.misc,misc.legal
From: srm@world.std.com (Stevens R Miller)
Subject: Re: Say it ain't so
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 14:04:24 GMT

jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni) writes:

>In article <1992Nov10.032052.9002@plx.com> asgard@sparky (J.R. Stoner) writes:

>>What's really on my mind is that you, Miller, and Dinkins are condoning the
>>reenactment of Krystallnacht...

>...Miller J.D. is still looking for
>legal evidence of any wrongdoing in [the Crown Heights] episode, I do
>not condone this violence.  Please get your attributions right.

I never denied the existence of legal evidence of wrongdoing, Jake.  What
I denied was the existence of good reason to believe that Nelson's
acquittal was the product of racism.  Since I see you are reading my
signature line, I'll suggest that you also try reading what I write above it.

As for Stoner's assertion:  I'm surprised that the references to 30's
Germany took this long to be made, but that's all I'm going to say about
it.
-- 
Stevens R. Miller J.D.
From: clmn@ellis.uchicago.edu (Bill Coleman)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Valid Interpretation Flamefest Resumes
Date: 23 Nov 92 23:14:44 GMT
Reply-To: clmn@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: Live & Direct from Downtown Petah Tikva ISRAEL

In article <23Nov92.200114.19246@granite.ciw.edu> cohen@quartz.ciw.edu (Ronald Cohen) writes:

>No, it doesn't.  That's not at all true.  Historical positivism
>states that halacha developed historically, which is certainly
>true--there is the halacha of the Rabbis and halacha of the
>Torah.  This distinction is clear throughout the Talmud.
>However, the Torah being of human origin is true only as it says
>in the Torah--"by the hand of Moshe."  I assume everyone agrees
>Moshe was human!
>

I'd like to respond to this in a helpful way, but I really don't understand
exactly what Ron and I are arguing about here.  There were really two points
I wanted to make in the original post.  First, that asking an Orthodox Jew
to call non-Orthodoxy a valid interpretation is tantamount to asking him 
(or her) to abandon Orthodox Judaism and, therefore, a denial of the
validity of Orthodoxy.  Second, are more importantly, that it is foolish
and counterproductive to insist that we all give each other heksherim,
but very sensible to insist that we deal with each other respectfully.



-- 
Bill Coleman
clmn@midway.uchicago.edu
From: hbb@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (harlan.b.braude)
Subject: Re: Square Kippot (was: Re: Tzitzit on ordinary garments)
Organization: AT&T
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 14:31:31 GMT

In article <1992Nov15.201508.28866@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> friedenb@silver.egr.msu.edu (Gedaliah Friedenberg) writes:
>
>If one were to wear a square kippah, would it require tzitzit?
>(is a kippah considered a garment?)
>
Perhaps the tassel on graduation caps is the remnant of tzizit on some
ancient square yarmulka :-)
-- 
Harlan B. Braude
hbb@att.com