From: markc@hydra.maths.unsw.EDU.AU ()
Subject: Re: Invasion of Time
Organization: school of Mathematics UNSW
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 00:24:36 GMT


The Mawdryn argument continues unabated, taking up bandwidth
This is where we are atin this life and death struggle:
Ian Robert Asplin writes :
>
>>If a Gallifreyan is born a Time Lord, then how could the Eight hope
>>to turn themselves into Time Lords with just a regenerator machine,
>>since being a Time Lord is a little more than that, there's the symbiotc
>>nuclei, there's the respiratory bypass system, the link to the Matrix,
>>the telepathy and hypnotism powers, etc.

I reply:
>
>I think this reinforces my argument. The 8 thought that to be Time Lords
>was simply a matter of regeneration. A Gallifreyan would know there was a 
>lot more to it than that.

He strikes back with:

>>If the Eight were already Gallifreyans, then YES  all they would BLOODY
>>NEED TO BECOME TIME LORDS WOULD BE THE REGENERATIONS!!!

RUBBISH. Now answer me this. If Time Lords are not born with the ability 
to regenerate, then why would they be born with the Rassilon Imprimature,
or their link to the matrix? I find it hard to believe they would be. 
An ordinary Gallifreyan would know this surely, and so would know that 
being able to regenerate would not make them Time Lords. An alien race on
the other hand, might believe that it was only regeneration that was required.


>Suit yourself. I just apply Occam's razor, which I think in this case says
>that the simplest assumtion is that they were alien scientists who the 
>Time Lords caught and punished. We know that knowledge has been stolen 
>from the matrix, and that could be where the 8 got the machine. To me this
>is simpler than assuming an elaborate set of restrictions on Gallifrey and
> "inventing" the theory Time Lords get their regenerations after thay 
>have gone to the academy. You don't see it this way? Oh Well.
>

>>This is not the simplest argument at all, because it is impossible for
>>anyone outside Gallifrey to have come in and stolen the regenerator.
>>They had to be Gallifreyans.  

All we know is that the equipment was Gallifreyan in origin, possibly stolen
from Gallifrey. We do not know how the eight acquired it. If aliens can still
from the matrix itself, then getting hold of a regenerator would not prevent 
a problem.

>>The Minyans did not have the type of regeneration that Time Lords do.
>>They had machines that would regenerate anything placed into them.
>>A Time Lord is someone able of regenerating without the aid of a machine.
>>The type of machine given the Minyans couldn't work since it bestows no
>>permanant effects.  
>>By employing your own argument of simplicity, the "another Time Lord
>>stole the regenerator" is more complex than my theory.

Firstly I am not saying that another Time Lord stole the machine. We do not 
know how they acquired it. I am simply pointing out that there are lots of]
ways it could have happened. Assuming aliens stole the machine is not a
complex assumption since aliens have been trying to steal, and sometimes 
succeding, Time Lord technology for many years on Dr Who. Why should the 8
in Mawdryn be different?

Secondly, the Minyans were given the ability to regenerate using the machine.
This proves the Time Lords can give people the ability to regenerate,
(Leela for example, wife of that well known Time Lord Andred). If the 8
were ordinary Gallifreyans, why not steal the regeneration bestowing 
machine (assuming the Time Lords are given their regenerations at some stage)
from Gallifrey, instead of trying to adapt a machine not designed for the job.


A third point, which i will follow up in a later post is Runcible.
You would like to argue that Runcible is not a Time Lord. But if this is
correct it proves Gallifreyans can regenerate. Can you figure out why?

Mark C.