HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 10:17:01 -0400 
From: "Joshua M. Sabloff" <jsa5+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Exciting new thread!!!
Distribution: usa

I really don't mean to flame, but wouldn't "songs that mention their own
titles" include MOST (almost ALL) of the rock songs ever written??? 


-Josh Sabloff
"We are the keepers of the three sacred words:
 Nee, Pen, and Nee-wom"
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll,rec.music.misc
From: boek@mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU (Christopher Boek)
Subject: Re: Gabriel
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 08:14:59 GMT

mcmahan@cs.unca.edu (Scott McMahan -- Genesis mailing list owner) writes:

>ghogen@kreon.informatik.rwth-aachen.de (Guido Hogen) writes:
>: I've read that the first single from Gabriel's _US_ will be a 
>: ballad together with Sinead O'Connor.

>Where did you read this?
>I hope it's just someone's idea of a sick joke.
>Scott

Perhaps not ... didn't he do "Don't give up" with her at some big
worldwide telecast live show last year sometime ...

Anyway, it would be quite an interesting combination in my opinion.

Chris.

--
|Christopher Boek                               boek@mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU|
|  Dept ElecEng, University of Melbourne,  Parkville Vic 3052 Australia |
|_____"Anybody remotely interesting is mad in some way or another"______|
From: parsons@osiris.cso.uiuc.edu (Mark Parsons)
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll
Subject: Re: Niel Young
Date: 23 Jul 92 18:46:37 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

was28667@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (palamino) writes:

>pavrabli@eos.ncsu.edu (PAUL ANDREW VRABLIC) writes:


>>Neil Young, does anyone know anything about his upcoming album?  is it true?
>>when? where?
>>thnx in advance
>>-paul(pavrabli@eos.ncsu.edu)


>New album?  Hmm - does this mean he's touring sometime soon?

	I believe the album is already out or will be very soon.  It's an
accoustic(y) album meant as a counter-point to his last very rockin' album
(I'm currently blanking on the bloody title).  The new album is meant to be
sort of a follow up to _Harvest_ and is done with the same band (not Crazy
Horse). 
	Neil is also on tour.  He did a solo accoustic performance here in
the DC area late last month.  Unfortunately, I was unable to attend.  A big
outdoor venue would seem a dodgy place for an accoustic show anyway (sour
grapes).

	It's only castles burning....
			-m.
From: markway1112@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll
Subject: Re: Favorite Genesis Songs (Was Re: the worst genesis song)
Date: 30 Jul 92 14:04:37 GMT
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

In article <1992Jul29.213337.14754@ctr.columbia.edu>, jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
> Hey, HEY!  Enough of this "worst" stuff!  How about your favorite Genesis
> songs?  Mine are:
> 
> 	-- Got a Job To Do
> 	-- Home By The Sea
> 	-- All of the first side of Abacab (esp. Me And Sarah Jane)
> --
> +-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
> | Jerry J. Shekhel  | Molecular Simulations | Time just fades the pages      |
> | Drummers do it... | Inc.  Waltham, MA USA | in my book of memories.        |
> |    ... In rhythm! |     (617) 890-2888    |              -- Guns N' Roses  |
> +-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
> |           ...! [ princeton mit-eddie bu sunne ] !polygen!jerry             |
> |                            jerry@polygen.com                               |
> +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

My favorites would have to be Domino (it was INCREDIBLE live in Ames, IA!),
Turn It On Again, Abacab, and Misunderstanding (if I'm in the right mood).

-Kathy:)
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll
From: afcanav@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (VIC CANACCI)
Subject: Child Abuse Songs
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
Date: 27 Jul 1992 12:33 EST  


Hell is for Children - Pat Benatar

Vic Canacci, Sverdrup Tech., NASA Lewis Cleveland


Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll,alt.music.rush,alt.music.progressive,alt.config
From: jchokey@leland.Stanford.EDU (James Alexander Chokey)
Subject: Re: Proposal for alt.music.queensryche
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 00:42:20 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.232132.6382@leland.Stanford.EDU> orpheus@leland.Stanford.EDU (Owen Duncan Smith) writes:
>In article <1992Jul20.220349.152@Cadence.COM> noah@Cadence.COM (Noah Ruiz) writes:
>>I'm getting sick of reading about Queenysucky on this news group!!!!
>>couldn't you guys pick some other group to torture with your non-
>>sense!!!!!! This group is for Rush!!! Maybe you guys didn't read
>>the group right and you thought it was for that sorry excuse for a
>>band you call Queenysucky or what ever their name is!
>>[insert finger into mouth] and I fully agree with "goo" they suk!!!!
>
>ouch.  I hope this is a jab at the more flame-ridden rock newsgroups.
>Something tells me this may be for real though.  (Now why Rush and not Yes
>or Genesis or Renaissance or Focus or Huh? or . . .)
>

	Because the poster read it on alt.music.rush, one of the newsgroups
on which the proposal for alt.music.queenryche (which has since become
alt.rock-n-roll.metal.progressive) was posted.  This thread cross-posted to 
a whole host of newsgroups:  alt.config, alt.music.rush, alt.music.progressive,
alt.rock-n-roll.metal. 
	Apparently, he just feels threatened whenever someone reminds him
that there are other groups than Rush in the world.  

	--  Jim C. <jchokey@leland.stanford.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll
From: parsons@osiris.cso.uiuc.edu (Mark Parsons)
Subject: Re: Niel Young
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 20:49:12 GMT

Ryan Tanner <tannerr@CS.ORST.EDU> writes:

>>	I believe the album is already out or will be very soon.  It's an
>>accoustic(y) album meant as a counter-point to his last very rockin' album
>>(I'm currently blanking on the bloody title).  The new album is meant to be

>Aren't you refering to Arc and Weld?  Haven't listened to it myself.  What's
>it like?  I picture it being like Ragged Glory.  Am I right?  How about 
>some feedback on how this album sounded?  Kinda expensive for me right now,
>and I don't know anybody who has the discs...

	Actually I was refering to _Ragged Glory_, but _Arc_ and _Weld_ work
too.  They're not really new albums in that they're live so it's not new
material but they're jammin'.  _Weld_ (I think) is a two disc album with
excellent, rockin', feedback riden live versions of songs both old and new.
Highlights include Cortez The Killer and Cinnamon Girl.  I highly recommend
the album.  _Arc_ (or is it the other way around?) is simply 30 or 40
minutes of feedback driven noise.  I've only heard bits of it, but it could
be quite cool if you're into that kind of thing.  All this sort of lives up
to the promise of Hey Hey My My (or is it the other way round?  why does he
do this to me?

	It's better to burn out than it is to rust!
			-m.

Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll
From: JHIATT@130.187.170.178 (JOHN HIATT)
Subject:  * New Joe Satriani *
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp.
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 06:15:42 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.11

  I just bought a copy of the Extremist by Joe Satriani.  It has been three
long years since his last album and I listened to the sounds with great 
anticipation.  Here are my first impressions:

  The Extremist is a very refined album.  It has its riveting gut-wrenching
guitar moments, bluesy moments and subtle, deeper moments as well.  Having
listened to it twice through I have found myself liking the album right off.
This is unusual since my first impressions of "Surfing..." and "Flying..." 
were not this way.
  Joe has found a unique way of reaching human emotion in his sound.  And I
found that the song-titles generally correspond to the mood of the song.  I
like the way Joe uses very simple names and phrases for the titles of his
instrumental tunes... a simplistic way to describe his technical masterpieces.
  Joe has shown much diversity in technique and style on this album, in 
contrast to "Not of this earth" which seemed to be the same stuff 
regurgitated.  There is a sense of a celtic-sound, interweaving majors and 
minors effectively on his fast tunes.  And a sense of sorrow on his slower
songs.  The only disappointment I had in this album was the title cut.  "The
Extremist" seemed a bit overdone and complex.  It wasn't fun to listen to.
Also, Joe's guitar playing is impressive but what he displays on this album
is not too different then what he's shown on others.  This may be a good thing
if you really enjoyed his previous stuff.

  In summary, if you liked "Flying..." and "Surfing..." you'll like "The
Extremist".

John R. Hiatt   JHIATT@GEMINI.SIM.ES.COM
Xref: sparky alt.rock-n-roll:14014 alt.music.alternative:7910 rec.music.misc:20209
From: bl2m+@andrew.cmu.edu (Benjamin D. Lukoff)
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll,alt.music.alternative,rec.music.misc
Subject: Re: Songs that mention other groups (was: Bands with self-titled songs)
Date: 22 Jul 92 15:18:16 GMT
	<schnitzi.711813957@eola.cs.ucf.edu>
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA


	In their song "The Seeker" (1970), the Who mention Bob Dylan and The Beatles.
	"I asked Bobby Dylan, I asked The Beatles....I asked Timothy Leary but
he couldn't help me either, they call me the Seeker......."

	In "Long May You Run" by Neil Young and Stephen Stills (1975) they
mention the Beach Boys.
	"I bet the Beach Boys have got you now, with their singin' Sweet
Caroline, oh, Caroline, no..", in reference to the 1966 Brian
Wilson/Beach Boys single "Caroline, No".

	And, for mentioning people in a negative light, in their song "Sweet
Home Alabama", which was a retort to Neil Young's "Southern Man", they
say "Now Neil Young singin' about us.......I hope Neil Young will
remember, Southern Man don't need him around anyhow".

	Benjamin Lukoff
	Carnegie-Mellon University, Pittsburgh
	bl2m+@andrew.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll
From: sci20035@nusunix3.nus.sg (LIM WOOI BENG)
Subject: U2 mailing list
Organization: National University of Singapore
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 07:16:02 GMT

Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll
From: kinnes@unvax.union.edu (Steven W. Kinne)
Subject: BOC lyrics
Summary: The "Spectres" Lyric Offer
Keywords: lyrics, blue oyster cult
Organization: Union College, Schenectady, NY
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 18:55:50 GMT

I noticed that on a "Spectres" CD that I bought about three weeks ago, there
was an offer to order all the Cult lyrics you want (I suppose). Here's what
it said:

"For all Cult lyrics send:
 $.50 (For Postage and Handling)
 and a self-addressed
 envelope to:
 Blue Oyster Cult
 P.O. Box 828
 Setauket, L.I., NY 11733
 Lyric requests must be
 accompanied by self-
 addressed stamped
 envelopes."

Does anyone know if this offer is valid any more? I wasn't sure how to treat
this offer, since "Spectres" is a 1977 release. If people believe this is
no longer valid, can anyone direct me to an alternate method for getting the
complete set of BOC lyrics? Thanks!

Steven

-- 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steven W. Kinne                 "All this machinery making modern music
Box 1176 - Union College         Can still be open hearted...
From: cthulhu@sparky.cis.ufl.edu (Mark Kupper)
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll
Subject: Re: Well I saw The First Leg of Metallica etc
Date: 22 Jul 92 21:53:59 GMT
Organization: Univ. of Florida CIS Dept.

In article <1992Jul18.180453.12345@wam.umd.edu> ledzep@wam.umd.edu (John Henry Bonham) writes:
>Gunners: Hmm. Well they are excellent showmen. They had a few good songs (live
> and let die, paradise city, knocking. They didn't play a good set I dont think
                                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
                                        As if they ever have!
From: David.A.Wolk@dartmouth.edu (David A. Wolk)
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll
Subject: Re: the worst genesis song
Date: 28 Jul 92 23:56:32 GMT
 <0095DD60.64956900@Msu.oscs.montana.edu> 
 <1992Jul28.121415.13711@umiami.ir.miami.edu>  <4135@news.duke.edu>
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

In article <4135@news.duke.edu>
cto@acpub.duke.edu (Ralph Geiger) writes:

> A question for all Genesis fans:
> 
> What is their worst song?
> 
> Leaving aside their first and last albums, I say it's a two-way tie:
> 
> "White Mountain" and 
> "The Ballad of Big".

How could you possibly forget "Who Dunnit?"  I really hate this song. 
It my very well be the worse song by any band, not to mention, by my
favorite group.  By the way, I kind of like "White Mountain."
From: grahamh@castle.ed.ac.uk (Graham Hay)
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll
Subject: Re: Marillion
Date: 22 Jul 92 14:56:01 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

still [regarding _Season's End_]

>>I wouldn't say miserable, just different...the new stuff can really
>>start to grow on you if you give it a chance...plus seeing the band
>>live, doesn't hurt either.

>I gave _Season's End_ plenty of time.  All that ended up doing was
>causing me to dislike the few songs I'd liked at first (such as "Easter"
>which is probably the least offensive on the album).

A lot of people seem to put down Season's End and I have to agree with
the fact that it has to grow on you - I didn't like Easter or Berlin
'till I heard them  live (Glasgow '89) but after giving those songs a
chance I really like them now. "Holidays in Eden" is a lot better for
instant appeal if you don't mind some of it sounding a bit "mainstream".


>>Marillion picked up Hogarth, who is more mainstream...but has an excellent 
>>voice.

>I don't think there's anything particularly excellent about Hogarth's voice.
>Actually, it's rather average.  Fish may not be a great singer, but his
>voice is very distinctive and fits well with his style. 

If you're in the UK then check out the B-sides of the re-release of
"No One Can". The acoustic versions of "Cover My Eyes" and "Sugar Mice"
are IMHO excellent and shows off Hogarth's voice really well - you'll
see why people appreciate it. (maybe) :-)

Graham Hay (grahamh@uk.ac.ed.castle)
From: tiverson@ds5000.DAC.Northeastern.edu (Thor Iverson)
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll
Subject: Live TV
Date: 28 Jul 92 18:45:23 GMT
Organization: Northeastern University, Boston, MA. 02115, USA

In article <Jul.28.12.26.04.1992.8168@remus.rutgers.edu> jjwright@remus.rutgers.edu (   Jay) writes:
>on saturday night live, the red hot chili peppers performed stone cold
>bush and anthony sings "when you smoke that rock/or suck that cock/you
>do it all so well."  thats pretty explicit.

Yeah, well it would be hard for a live TV show to avoid that, wouldn't it?
Sorry if I sound like I'm flaming--I'm not.

Thor Iverson
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
   safety deserve neither liberty or safety."  --Ben Franklin
   Thor Iverson  tiverson@ds5000.dac.northeastern.edu  (617) 427-3922
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll,alt.music.alternative
From: schansen@amc.com (Scott Hansen)
Subject: Redding Festival Info.
Organization: Applied Microsystems, Redmond, WA
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 15:56:01 GMT

I want to get some information on the Redding Festival in 
England next month.  The date, bands, ticket availability
and price, location and any general information you may
have.

I will be going to the UK next month on business and would
like to work it into my schedule.

Thanks,

-Scott
-- 
==============================================================================
Scott Hansen (schansen@amc.com)           Sysop...:  The Crystal Chip 
Applied Microsystems Corporation          BBS.....:  (206) 226-6550    
Redmond, Washington  98073                Voice...:  (206) 882-5322
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll
From: mmarx@Csli.Stanford.EDU (Matthew Marx)
Subject: Re: Proposal for alt.music.queensryche
Organization: Stanford University CSLI
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 04:19:09 GMT

In <13772@auspex-gw.auspex.com> johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira) writes:

>In article <1992Jul27.210637.24058@colorado.edu> rpb@palmen.colorado.edu (Robert Baptist) writes:
>|In article <0095DD60.64956900@Msu.oscs.montana.edu> gjs8818@Msu.oscs.montana.edu (Jared Shockley) writes:
>|>
>|>All I have to say is what the hell is all of this &^%$ doing on
>|>alt.music.rush. Queensryche is a much different sound than rush;
>|>they are almost a Pink-Floyd sound. Get that the hell outta here and 
>|>get back to talking about the best band in the world, RUSH!!.
>|>
>|
>|     Let me first say I have no desire to get into a war over whether
>|Queensryche is better than Rush, or whatever..  I think most wars
>|like this are uninteresting because they don't make any specific
>|points-- they basically just say "RUSH [or fill in the blank] RULES
>|BECAUSE... I LIKE EM' AND [this band inserted] SUCKS!"  It would be
>|more constructive to make intelligent arguements.

>I find it interesting that the only two responses which obviously were posted
>by regular readers of alt.music.rush were quite hostile.  Queensryche has
>appeared in alt.music.progressive several times and I'm sure that many would
>question that the group fits the charter but no one from that group has found
>it necessary to degrade the band nor "protect" the readers from someone that
>happens to believe there are other bands worth discussing.  Jared's 
>article merely propogates the believe that Rush fans are just narrow minded
>assholes that don't have anything to contribute to discussions about music 
>and are better off with "their own kind".  

Wait...I'm confused...you mean there are people in the world who
really AREN'T RUSH FANS?? The Horror! (smirk)
-- 
Matt Marx    mmarx@csli.stanford.edu    (415)725-1499
...not related to Karl, Groucho, Harpo, or Richard...

RushU2BachRushMozartVivaldiRushTalkingHeadsHandelRush
Xref: sparky alt.rock-n-roll:14287 alt.music.alternative:8367
From: ops@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll,alt.music.alternative
Subject: Re: Redding Festival Info.
Date: 28 Jul 92 17:40:43 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAXcluster

In article <1992Jul27.155601.1844@amc.com>, schansen@amc.com (Scott Hansen) writes:
> I want to get some information on the Redding Festival in 
> England next month.  The date, bands, ticket availability
> and price, location and any general information you may
> have.
> 
> I will be going to the UK next month on business and would
> like to work it into my schedule.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> -Scott


Well, I haven't got my copy of Melody Maker to hand, but I will tomorrow. This
is what I can telly you in the mean time.

1) It's spelled READING, and happens Friday August 28th (bands start 2pm) till
Sunday 30th

2) It's about half an hour from London Paddington train station, or down the M4
if you've got a car

3) It's excellent camping there - bring a tent but leave your valubles
elsewhere!

4) It costs around 45 pounds for a full 3-day ticket including camping, but you
need to buy this in advance. Try Stargreen ticket agency on (071) 734 8932.
individual day tickets are about 20 quid each and can't be bought in advance.

5) There are many more bands than Lolla - 2 music stages plus comedy stage and
maybe more. Don't just watch the main stage bands - some of the ones on the
smaller Mean Fiddler stage are well worth seeing. 

6) I can't remember a lot of the bands, but Nirvana, Public Enemy, EMF, Ride,
Smashing Pumpkins, Rollins Band are all on the bill

7) Do it!!


Tristan
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll
From: rfarias@cecux1 (FARIAS MOYA RODRIGO ANDRES)
Subject: Re: the worst genesis song
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 16:31:13 GMT
Organization: Centro de Computacion - Universidad de Chile

In article <4135@news.duke.edu> cto@acpub.duke.edu (Ralph Geiger) writes:
>
>A question for all Genesis fans:
>What is their worst song?
>Leaving aside their first and last albums....
>
    Illegal Alien  (seems a DEVO song)

                           .--------------------------------------------------.
                           |   .--. .--. .--. /  Rodrigo Farias M.            | 
                           |  /    /---/(--' /   rfarias@cecux1.cec.uchile.cl | 
                            --------------------------------------------------' 
Xref: sparky alt.rock-n-roll:14235 rec.music.misc:20624
From: jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu (Jeffrey C. Burka)
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll,rec.music.misc
Subject: Re: Gabriel
Date: 28 Jul 92 00:48:26 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland at College Park

In article <Bs0Ksu.I68@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu
> mwilkenf@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Sid) writes:

>Umm sorry folks but hasn't this already been released?  Or at least didn't
>Gabrial and Sinead record a Christmas song or something?

You're thinking of the "Silent Night" single which was released for 
Christmas '91.  It contained "Silent Night," which happened to be recorded
at Gabriel's Real World studio, and "Irish Ways and Irish Laws" which was
a live recording.  While Gabriel played keyboards for "Silent Night," it
can hardly be called a duet, let alone something that might be included on
a Gabriel album.

Jeff
-- 
|Jeffrey C. Burka                | "Show what you are / Be strong, be true  |
|                                |  Time for you to / Be who you are."      |
|jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu            |                         --Happy Rhodes   |
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll
From: bijans@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Bijan M. Salehizadeh)
Subject: U2 in Yankee Stadium
Originator: news@ernie.Princeton.EDU
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 15:07:08 GMT

Zoo TV hits YANKEE STADIUM on Aug 29.  Tickets go on sale this Saturday.
This makes U2 only the SECOND band to play in the house that Ruth built
The only other being Billy Joel a couuple years ago.

--
"It's Planet Narcissus, Man."
Bono describing Z(T)(V)

Xref: sparky alt.rock-n-roll:14233 alt.music.rush:2367 alt.music.progressive:1511
From: johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira)
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll,alt.music.rush,alt.music.progressive
Subject: Re: Proposal for alt.music.queensryche
Date: 27 Jul 92 22:53:00 GMT
Followup-To: alt.rock-n-roll
Organization: Auspex Systems, Inc.

In article <1992Jul27.210637.24058@colorado.edu> rpb@palmen.colorado.edu (Robert Baptist) writes:
|In article <0095DD60.64956900@Msu.oscs.montana.edu> gjs8818@Msu.oscs.montana.edu (Jared Shockley) writes:
|>
|>All I have to say is what the hell is all of this &^%$ doing on
|>alt.music.rush. Queensryche is a much different sound than rush;
|>they are almost a Pink-Floyd sound. Get that the hell outta here and 
|>get back to talking about the best band in the world, RUSH!!.
|>
|
|     Let me first say I have no desire to get into a war over whether
|Queensryche is better than Rush, or whatever..  I think most wars
|like this are uninteresting because they don't make any specific
|points-- they basically just say "RUSH [or fill in the blank] RULES
|BECAUSE... I LIKE EM' AND [this band inserted] SUCKS!"  It would be
|more constructive to make intelligent arguements.

I find it interesting that the only two responses which obviously were posted
by regular readers of alt.music.rush were quite hostile.  Queensryche has
appeared in alt.music.progressive several times and I'm sure that many would
question that the group fits the charter but no one from that group has found
it necessary to degrade the band nor "protect" the readers from someone that
happens to believe there are other bands worth discussing.  Jared's 
article merely propogates the believe that Rush fans are just narrow minded
assholes that don't have anything to contribute to discussions about music 
and are better off with "their own kind".  

-- 
+============================================================================++
| John Fereira            "Is that all you ever think about?"                |
| johnf@auspex.com                                                           |
+============================================================================++