From: smorine@nyx.cs.du.edu (Suzanne Morine)
Subject: Re: Levis Drops Boy Scouts...
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 20:14:00 GMT

Just a few comments on some things in J. Haugh's posts.

jfh@greenber.austin.ibm.com (John F Haugh II) writes:
>In the simple case of "homosexuality is perfectly OK" (and I say
>"simply" only because it avoids the morality issue - and it
>isn't clear one bit that homosexuality is morally acceptable)

"In the simple case of 'left-handedness is perfectly OK' (and I say
'simply' only because it avoids the morality issue - and it
isn't clear one bit that left-handedness is morally acceptable)"

Those two sentences make the same amount of "sense".  If you're going to
use such "logic", then you had better be prepared to wonder which of any
number of activities and preferences in life are immoral.  The clothes
you wear, the foods you eat, the communication you use, and on and on.
The bottom line is that a such a "morality" is pointless for humans to
bother with.   We can't cipher it and it does no provable good for us
if we manage to touch it by chance.  Better to use a morality based on
mutual respect between people.

[from another post:]
>That's OK, because my moral values can't abide by sexual promiscuity,
>disregard for human life and health, needless sexual abuse, or a
>slew of other offenses that hide behind homosexuality as a
>political agenda.

You repeatedly dredge up mythical associations of homosexuality to
other things.  Repetition may convince a three year old, but it doesn't
make something true - and it doesn't *convince*.

The moon is a big cheese.  The moon is a big cheese.  The moon is a big
green cheese.  The moon is a big cheese.

Guess what: The moon is *still* not a big cheese.

And homosexuality is *still* not equivalent to promiscuity, disregard
for human life, needless sexual abuse (and what *is* Useful Sexual
Abuse???) - and any of the other things you have come up with.  Are you
prepared to say that no gay person has ever respected human life and
health, that every last gay person is/was promiscuous (not to mention
to claim that no gay person ever was a virgin for life), that every gay
person has molested someone?  Really, the myths say these things and
they are only myths.  Are you going to try to say that no gay person
lived life as just a nice person who contributed positively to his/her
neighborhood, workplace, and even the world?

Or - is it that you're just trying to scare someone?

And maybe for a political agenda of your own?


Now, can we stop a minute and look at another generalization?

>we have young children in the woods with other young children
>that view them as targets of their sexual curiousity.

The world painted by the above quote and quotes from other posts is
disturbing.  Kids viewing other kids as "targets" of sexual curiosity.
A boyscout would "love" to "just get his hands on a troop full of
girlscouts".  Kids who view other kids only as "sexual opportunities".
Boys who "rapidly" learn only that "camping trips are a great way to
have sex with young girls".

The kids I remember being friends with had some concept of respect.
But the world painted above is a world of kids (of any orientation)
who have no consideration for others at all.  I have to wonder what
kind of world you live/d in: rape and molestation on the mind of every
person on the block.  If you are serious, then very likely you've had
an awful time in life and I am sympathetic.  Even in this case, you'd
seriously need to realize that most people - yes, of *any* orientation
- just aren't like that.

In the other case, if you're just trying to use repetition and scarey
pictures to control people, then you have got some *real* morality
distinctions to figure out.

[and lastly:]
>Please, let us stop pretending that what you do in the privacy of your
>own bedroom really doesn't affect anyone else.  When you are a member
>of society, almost everything you do impacts the rest of society.  And
>when that impact is death, it is hard to argue that the impact is
>minimal or nonexistent.

Consentual safe sex, or making the bed together, it doesn't matter.
Neither is anyone's business but the consenting adults'.  And, no,
no one dies.

--
-Suzanne Morine          smorine@nyx.cs.du.edu
--      "Freezer Burn?  Now there's a chilling thought."     FingerMan(tm)
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Xref: sparky alt.politics.homosexuality:5427 rec.scouting:2402