HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ae498@yfn.ysu.edu (Dawn Bott)
Subject: Leaving on a Jet Plane.....
Organization: Youngstown State University/Youngstown Free-Net
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 02:30:29 GMT


Well fellow Alt.Romancers,


it's nearly time for another one of us to take the LD out of
the LDR... =)  (namely..me!)

it has been 4 and a half months (August 10) since i have
last seen my sweetie....and even though we have run up 
enormous telephone bills (as well as keep the postal service
running)...and time spent chatting/laughing/arguing on IRC...

I am a bit nervous/anxious to see him again....
I don't remember the exact wordage..but wasn't there a song
by Journey (off their FRONTIERS album) that had lines to the
effect:

..and being apart ain't easy on this love affair,
  two strangers learn to fall in love again..
  I get the joy of rediscovering you....


ok, okay....i admit..i *had* to go dig up my album so i could
quote the lyrics correctly =D


anyway....just felt the need to announce to the world that
the official countdown has begun...and i figured that here
at least one or two people would care =)

I hope you all had a warm and peaceful holiday..no matter
if you have a present sweetie or if you are embittered by the
thought of love and just read this newsgroup to fulfill your
flame quota ;)

this is really the first holiday season i have had someone special
to share it with (the few others i had seems to either start just
before and end just after...go figure!)....but that doesn't mean
the the holidays before weren't as nice.  In reference to the
posts made before about speading love around...now more than
any other time of the year..look around a appreciate the people
around you who do nice things for you and genuinely care about you.

They don't have to be lovers to love you...sometimes the most
genuine feelings of closeness, empathy and generally warm
fuzziness comes from those people who radiant warmth and
friendliness, and easily give it out to others..  Friends who

fellow employees who don't try to make your work any harder than
it has to be....


i know, i am rambling.....

but just appreciate the little things!!!


cheers,


Dawn
-- 
 ...Some day you will travel all the way from Vermont just
    to get your eyes chewed off by a dog....
 
      -- Deep Thoughts with Gleeep on A.R.
Newsgroups: alt.romance,alt.romance.chat
From: charon@zephyr.cair.du.edu (Spaz)
Subject: Equality between men and women; is there such a thing?
Originator: charon@zephyr.cair.du.edu
Organization: University of Denver
Distribution: na
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 93 01:22:53 GMT


Equality between men and women.  Equality straight across the board.  Not 
Equal when it suits a purpose, Not Equal just when it's convenient, but
Equality at ALL times be it good, or bad.  Knowing this, do you still
wish to be equal?
Newsgroups: alt.romance,soc.couples
From: jsl@athena.mit.edu (J. Spencer Love)
Subject: Re: help!  worried about friends...
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 13:53:38 GMT

It sounds like your two friends are firmly in the grip of the Great
Romantic Myth.  I don't know of any direct attack that can pierce this
armor without utterly destroying the target(s).

If this is to be a "practice marriage," then the greatest favor you can
do them is to persuade them NOT TO HAVE CHILDREN.  Having children is
sometimes mistaken as another form of "cement" for a relationship, but
in that context is a crime.

No other mistake they can make (except suicide) has such permanent
consequences.  If they want to finish their growing-up in this way, more
power to them.  There is even a small possibility that they'll make it
work, and who are we to deprive them of that?  (Yes, yes, I know, older
and wiser, but we could be wrong.)

I'm not saying that they should NEVER have children, but 1) not for the
first year, 2) not 'til the honeymoon ends, 3) not 'til they finish
their education, 4) not 'til they have steady income that won't be
disrupted by a pregancy, and 5) not until they have their act enought
together that they have actually made and lived by a budget for a year.
And this is NOT an argument to quit school to start a family; chances
are they will have more income and more options if they wait.

Any chance you could get them to accept this advice on your own without
expensive and or politically incorrect help?  If they really want the
relationship to work, they can get help after they encounter the other
problems that we see as inevitable.

Their parents could make this a lot worse if they express their
displeasure by cutting off the money for education.  As seems quite
plausible.  Go directly to the school of hard knocks...

						-- Spencer
Newsgroups: alt.romance
From: phantasm@iastate.edu ()
Subject: Chivalry and Honor...
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 03:40:01 GMT

Once again:

>> It appears that we have crossed over from chivalry to honor in this
>> discussion... And sad to say, war has progressed so far as to make modern
>> day dealings with the enemy no longer an issue of honor as they were in the
>> past...

And Jeff Bacon asks:

> are not the two related?
> can there be chivalry without honor?

Not too my way of thinking...

>>> There are Gentleman's virtues that wouldn't help them being a good officer
>>> when dealing with the Enemy. Such as politeness, courtesy, fairness,
>>> honesty, kindness and mercy.

>> Today, perhaps very true... To my mind, also very unfortunate...

> not necessarily. certainly not always.

Not neccessarily true, or not necessarily unfortunate?

> are things really so different? and was it truly so back then? did
> was honor and politeness not a hindrance then too? and do you really
> think there were no unscrupulous people back then? 

> I don't think humans have really changed all THAT much.

Certainly humanity has not changed that much, but I think human attitudes
have changed... Certainly, the ease and cleanliness with which we can deal
destruction today, and the lengthening of our lifespans have influenced our
perceptions of war...

And if we so often question if honor and chivalry are dead in the world
today, it would seem to indicate that certain driving forces no longer
exist... And I do not believe that the removal of the driving force was due
to greater understanding of mankind and a revelation that honor is an
outdated concept with no place in the modern world and that its passing
would be for the best...

I do not suggest the return of the Middle Ages, only a desire to see certain
concepts of the period alive again today...

phantasm
Newsgroups: alt.romance
Subject: Re: Signs
From: jsteiner@anwsun.phya.utoledo.edu (jason 'Think!' steiner)
Date: 23 Dec 92 00:32:49 EST
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

weaver@jetsun.weitek.COM (Michael Gordon Weaver) writes:
> robinsonm@clvax1.cl.msu.edu writes:
> >   Is there any kind of a signal, that cannot be mistaken for 
> >friendship, that lets one know that it just might be OK if you 
> >took the plunge with someone.  My readership of signs is way 
> >heinous simply because I am now quite uncertain what is meant to 
> >be just touchy feely friendly and what is meant to be "if you 
> >don't get over here soon....."

this one happened to me: sitting on the couch, watching a video,
when you suddenly find yourself being -seriously- kissed. missed
the rest of the flick & there was static on the screen for some
time before we thought to turn it off... gotta hate it when that
happens...

happily in love,
jason

--
`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`
`,`     "Stark raving sane." -- Rosencrantz & Guildenstern Are Dead     `,`
`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,` jsteiner@anwsun.phya.utoledo.edu ,`,`,`
Newsgroups: alt.romance
From: stone@cwis.unomaha.edu (Travis Stone)
Subject: Thank You All For Your Advice!
Keywords: Much Obleeged!
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 15:11:56 GMT



Once again, I'd like to say "thanks" and doff me topper to all you
folks who took the time and trouble to E-mail me advice about my
female friend and her wayward SO---whom, it looks, won't be her SO
for much longer.

The lady in question recieved your E-mail replies through me, and
after reading them, came to the same general conclusion that those
of you who replied did, to wit: jettison the creep.  The one bit of
advice that she *wouldn't* go for, though, was one responder's suggest-
ion that she castrate the cheating worm....

So, on my friend's behalf, I wish to say to the responsive folk of
A.R.: Thank you for your input and your insight---it certainly opened
the lady's eyes, and took some of the puzzling edge off his behavior.

Happy New Year to you all!

...T.R. Stone


Newsgroups: alt.romance,soc.men,soc.women,alt.sex,soc.couples,soc.singles
From: uphrrmk@Msu.oscs.montana.edu
Subject: Re: How Strong Should a Man Be?
Reply-To: uphrrmk@Msu.oscs.montana.edu
Organization: Montana State University
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 00:24:55 GMT

In article <C04LDD.BL3@world.std.com>, aep@world.std.com (Andrew E Page) writes:
>
>Strong enough to keep two hearts from breaking.
>
>(Any more along this line?)
>
>-- 
    Strong enough to take responsibility for his actions.  That's about all we
can ask from any human being.  Men and women, alike.

                                   La Mort.

Newsgroups: alt.romance
From: fippen@ux2.cso.uiuc.edu (J. Fippen)
Subject: Love is giving, not taking.
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 20:34:55 GMT

	In the media these days "sex" is the big word. It's used to sell everything, 
and it is called, regularly, the same as love. This is a lie, because  love is 
a thousand times greater than sex. Sex is an important part of love, but  it is 
nowhere near the greatness of love.
        There are many people who preach love as sex; it is not. Sex is easy 
to find; just go down to your local bar and you will find plenty to oblige, 
just go to bed with them and you're there. And tomorrow that person won't 
remember your name! I used to look down on these people, then I realized they 
simply don't understand what love is, so we must be sorry for them because they 
miss the greatest part of life: LOVE.
        Sex (lust) is of the body, glandular in nature, and is easily 
satisfied. Love is of the heart (soul), and is satisfied only with that one 
person with whom your heart is joined, and love will endure as long as you 
live. It is not a temporary joining of the hearts, but something to be with you 
as long as you live. I simply don't believe I could be an old man and alone; it 
would be too much to bear. I love my wife and gladly give to her everything 
that I have, and she has done the same for me. We have total harmony, respect, 
and support for each other; our closeness is total, our fidelity absolute; all 
of this can be put in one word: LOVE.

                                                        John Fippen


Newsgroups: alt.romance
From: corbisier@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Subject: Re: This Really BITES IT! (Pardon My Language)
Reply-To: corbisier@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Organization: Brandeis University
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 01:40:03 GMT

Yeah, it does bite it.  This summer, I met a wonderful man that I could easilysee spending the rest of my life with.  Not only is he in another country, but
on another continent.  

Last month through internet, I met someone else I'd like to get to know 
better...He's in Virginia, I'm in Boston.

So do I feel comforted or unsettled knowing that I'm not the only one caught
in some great cosmic practical joke:  "Okay, let's let this person find 
someone they could really grow to love, but let's make it impossible due to
distance!  It'll be a riot!"

Barb
Newsgroups: alt.romance,soc.men,soc.women,alt.sex,soc.couples,soc.singles
From: ssalter@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (-=[SLS]=-)
Subject: Re: How Strong Should a Man Be?
Organization: OFSA
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 17:21:25 GMT

charles@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Charles Jacob Cohen) sez:

>In article <C04LDD.BL3@world.std.com> aep@world.std.com (Andrew E Page) writes:
>>Strong enough to keep two hearts from breaking.
>
>He should be strong enough for a man, but made for a woman.
>

sounds reasonable to me!...or, 'strong enough for a man but Done by a
woman'...to divert myself from the soap quote rather drastically.

Newsgroups: alt.romance,alt.romance.chat
From: bacon@mtu.edu (Jeff Bacon)
Subject: Re: Equality between men and women; is there such a thing?
Organization: Michigan Technological University
Distribution: na
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 19:25:46 GMT

In article <93002.201921ICSJM@ASUACAD.BITNET> <ICSJM@ASUACAD.BITNET> writes:
>definately the term "equal" needs defining......let's look at it from a
>military point of view.....yes, a woman can fly a jet as good as a man....
>yes a woman can sail a ship as good as a man....but NO a woman could
>participate in the jungles of some south eastern country.  Maybe as a
>nurse or medic, but not in the jungle working in teams....especially
>the work I did in Viet Nam......a womans survival rate would probably
>be about 2 or 3 seconds.

I would not say that anywhere near one or two women I've known, they would 
pick you up and turn you into a pretzel for fun. by the same token, my
presence in those same jungles would only be good for adding to the overall
nutrient level of the jungle floor.

yes, on average, it is a granted that women are "more physically challenged"
than men. that doesn't leave room for the overlap and the exceptions.

and as far as that goes, why aren't they sailing ships and flying planes
in combat?

Nah, there's something rather more sublime going on here.

-bacon
Newsgroups: alt.romance,soc.men,soc.women,alt.sex,soc.couples,soc.singles
From: karl@ddsw1.mcs.com (Karl Denninger)
Subject: Re: How Strong Should a Man Be?
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 16:13:09 GMT
Organization: MCSNet, Chicago, IL


In article <oneil.725956826@cwis> Sharon writes:
>
>Hmmm...a man cannot always help breaking a heart.  Or a woman, for that 
>matter.  I might point out that broken hearts are inevitable in this life.
>You just have to let time heal the pain.

Yes.  But one can be reasonable in their words and actions through a
breakup.  Many people are not, and do much more damage than is necessary.  
I find this spiteful and surprising in people who used to claim to love one
another.

>I have tried to tell him that there was no way to get around hurting me.
>When he decided that he needed to break up in order to make a new relationship
>with his current SO, there was no way that he was going to be able to do 
>this without hurting me.  No matter how he went about breaking up with me 
>at that time, I was going to get hurt.

Yes.....

I am going through a divorce right now.  We're trying very hard to do this
without harming one another.  Regardless of the fact that my wife and myself
cannot stand being married (it just doesn't work for us) this does not mean
that I hate her.  Quite the contrary; I wouldn't have married her in the
first place if there wasn't something of value there.

So far we're being reasonably successful at being friends.  We're still able
to inhabit the same home in fact, although in separate bedrooms.  Time will
tell whether that can be maintained, but I certainly hope it can.

This is not to say that hurt doesn't flare up -- it certainly does.  It
takes strength not to drive salt into an obviously open wound in moments of
anger.  But we manage somehow.

>What I'd really like to be, however, is friends.  Just because I am hurting,
>however, does not necessarily mean that I want to get back together with him.
>Yes, it really hurts that we're not together, but I'm not so sure that 
>getting back together would make me feel any better.  

It might - but it might also harm >him<.  And that is the real rub -- these
things aren't a zero-sum game.  People do get hurt in relationships all the
time.  The trick is not to do harm for the sake of spite, or with intent.

>How strong does a man have to be?  A man has to be strong enough to do what
>he thinks is right.  And this goes for a woman too.  
>
>Sharon
>oneil@cwis.unomaha.edu

Thanks Sharon.  Wonderful post; there's a warmth and understanding in you
that is rarely found.

Take care....

--
Karl Denninger (karl@ddsw1.MCS.COM, <well-connected>!ddsw1!karl)
Data Line: [+1 312 248-0900] Anon. arch. (nuucp) 00:00-06:00 C[SD]T
Request file: /u/public/sources/DIRECTORY/README for instructions
Newsgroups: alt.romance
From: panlilio@acs.ucalgary.ca (Victor P. Panlilio)
Subject: Re: This Really BITES IT! (Pardon My Language)
Summary: Cuddly Canadians
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 92 07:14:33 GMT
Expires: Sun, 31 Jan 1993 05:00:00 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta
Keywords: Rats, RATS, RATS!!!!!!
Followup-To: alt.romance, E-mail

In article <stone.725642712@cwis> stone@cwis.unomaha.edu (Travis Stone) writes:
>
>You know what's really maddening about romance and relationships?
>It's the irritating irony surrounding their development.  Case in
>point:
>
>Through alt.romance I've come in contact with a really fascinating
>lady---she's intelligent, romantic, sweet, and eminently cuddly (this
>last bit comes from my impression of her after she obligingly described
>herself.)  After several E-mail exchanges, I've started to think that I 
>just might be falling for this fair maiden, which, in retrospect, may
>
>I'M here in Nebraska, and SHE'S way up yonder in Canada.

>Stuck here in Nebraska, but looking to the North for my Cuddly Canadian,
>Rosemary......

Howdy Travis,

Make sure to send lotsa messages to warm Rosemary's heart, 'cuz
it's bloody cold here right now ('bout 30 below where I am and
headed for forty below, Celsius, Fahrenheit, doesn't matter...)

Victor
(braving an unseasonably chilly winter in Calgary)

P.S. Happy New Year to all!



Newsgroups: alt.romance
From: webdw@cbnews.cb.att.com (bruce.d.woods)
Subject: Re: ADVICE GIVERS - help me please
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 13:33:33 GMT

In article <bobert.724981636@godzilla> bobert@informix.com (Robert Murphy) writes:
>>          So here is the problem, he is really grumpy lately.  He
>>complains about everything in my hometwon.  He hates his job, hates
>>the weather, hates the fact that it takes us 5 hours to drive to see
>>his friends.  I understand, and try to be as sympathetic as possible,
>>but there is anly so much that I can take.
>

A lot of men, in new social surroundings, are slow to adapt to the point
where they feel as if they belong and are in control of their lives.
When they feel as though they have lost control or do not "belong" they
feel trapped.  When men feel trapped they often exhibit "anti" behavior.
Keep those communication lines wide open and don't let him feel as if
the world revolves around your past life and your friends.  Men are often
less able to adapt than women in this regard.  It is also true that his
behavior might be a sign that the problem is deeper than just the control
issue - but you can't find that out with mind reading.



Newsgroups: alt.romance,soc.couples
From: cos@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (Ofer Inbar)
Subject: Re: help! worried about friends...
Organization: Brandeis University
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 05:25:49 GMT

Catherine.Collingwood@launchpad.unc.edu (Catherine Collingwood) writes:
>It has recently come to my attention that, even though the marriage is
>mere months away, neither of them have thought to start talking about
>such minutae (sp?) as financial plans, where they're going to live,
>how they're going to tell their parents (which bothers me on another 
>plane too), etc..
>And they keep asking me for advice on how to make a relationship work!

  They're in college, have no concrete plans, their parents don't
know, and they're looking for advice about making a relationship
work...  and they're getting married in a few months?  I'm not saying
there's anything wrong with them wanting to spend their life together,
especially since I don't know them, but can't the wedding wait?  It
sounds possible that they may be going for this early wedding partly
because they think they need it to 'cement' their relationship, and if
that's the case, then it's a very strong argument for delaying
marriage.  Let them see if the relationship is strong enough to hold
on its own, without the crutch of marriage.
  As for counselling, everyone has their biases and will inflict those
biases on their clients.  The trick is probably in finding a
counsellor whose ideas mesh with the couple.  And if they're anti
religion, then a priest is a bad idea no matter how skillful he is,
IMHO.  Friends, BTW, can make great counsellors, and they don't cost
money.

  --  Cos (Ofer Inbar)  --  cos@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu
  --  WBRS (BRiS)  --  WBRS@binah.cc.brandeis.edu  WBRS@brandeis.bitnet
   Love: a blurring of the distinction between selfish and selfless.
Organization: Arizona State University
Date: Monday, 21 Dec 1992 22:23:48 MST
From: <ICSJM@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Newsgroups: alt.romance
Subject: Re: How do you win someone back.

sit him down and talk....if he listens to you then you have a chance, then
again, if he doesn't listen or changes the subject, the you are probably
wasting you time, and he wasn't worth it.....a good talk between two friends
or lovers, can do miricles for a relationship
From: hunter@vax.sonoma.edu
Newsgroups: alt.romance
Subject: Re: Gleep's responses
Date: 21 Dec 92 08:54:16 GMT
Organization: Sonoma State University


  And what the hell kind of answer is that, "Gleeep"?? I've seen a
few of your answers on here, and they are WEIRD.
From: keithg@cnmhnet.UUCP (keith garrard)
Newsgroups: alt.romance
Subject: Re: Update-Adivce Given to Me on Net
Date: 21 Dec 92 17:29:18 GMT
Organization: California-Nevada Methodist Homes

In article <92354.174252F36SI@CUNYVM.BITNET> F36SI@CUNYVM.BITNET writes:
>       surprise!  Back to my mother.  So, this morning (Saturday) I am eating
>       my breakfast trying to lay low, when my mother pipes up, "Aren't you
>       supposed to be taking Nancy out today?"  When I asked her how she
>       found out, she said that the mailgirl told her, who was told (I assume0
>       by Nancy, the girl I am taking out.  Ayayayayaeeee!!!
>       I told my mother not to worry about it.  It should not surprise me
>       though.  Office scuttlebutt travels like wildfire.  I am surprised
>       my mother had the guts to bring that up with me.  Well, graduation
>      is in June and I'll be out of the house by then.  Any advice on how
>       to handle (or not handle?) this would be appreciated.

So what's to handle?  So your mother knows.  Big deal!  You knew
that was bound to happen.  Take the girl out.  Have a god time.  
Wouldn't you rather have your mother know about your dating this
girl, rather than dating *some guy*?  Now that would *really* give
her something to talk about!

--Keith


				*
			       * *
			      * * *
			     * * * *
			    * * * * *
			       | |
			   ___________
			Happy Holidays!!!

Newsgroups: alt.romance,alt.romance.chat
From: fsquared@eff.org (Fawn Fitter)
Subject: Re: Equality between men and women; is there such a thing?
Originator: fsquared@eff.org
Organization: The Electronic Frontier Foundation
Distribution: na
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 02:05:45 GMT

charon@zephyr.cair.du.edu (Spaz) writes:


>Equality between men and women.  Equality straight across the board.  Not 
>Equal when it suits a purpose, Not Equal just when it's convenient, but
>Equality at ALL times be it good, or bad.  Knowing this, do you still
>wish to be equal?


Define what you mean by "equality" and I'll give you an answer.