HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: nz.netstatus
Subject: Re: Letter from Auckland university
From: jonc@status.gen.nz (Jon Clarke)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 07:27:34 GMT
Organization: Z*NET Global News Gateway in Auckland New Zealand

mark@comp.vuw.ac.nz (Mark Davies) writes:

> 
> In article <B4ikoB1w164w@status.gen.nz>, jonc@status.gen.nz (Jon Clarke) writ
> |>  To be sent such a letter by somebody called J.D.Luff who signs a letter
> |>  yours faithfully and does not even bother to address it to me nor identif
> |>  their gender.
> 
> What has their gender got to do with anything?
> 
> cheers
> mark

 I would be a matter of common courtousy to identify who you are so 
 any return mail (snail mail -sent-) could be correctly addressed.
 
 Other than that nothing.

 Jon Clarke               (Z*NET FNET now in FIDO)                HSBC NZM EBD
 GEnie: J.CLARKE6          FIDONET: 3/772:105      TheNets: jonc@status.gen.nz
 T h e    Z * N E T    G l o b a l   N e w s   G a t e w a y    i n    N Z L .
Newsgroups: nz.netstatus
Newsgroups: nz.netstatus
Subject: Letter from Auckland university
From: jonc@status.gen.nz (Jon Clarke)
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 00:29:10 GMT
Organization: Z*NET Global News Gateway in Auckland New Zealand

SysAdmin's under Auckland University Domain, .gen and .com
 
 I today received the most offencive letter ever from any SERVICE
 organisation signed by a J.D.Luff, it read as follows ...
 
 (Auckland University Letter head)

                                          Computer Centre
                                          University of Auckland
                                          Private Bag 92019
                                          AUCKLAND

 July 22, 1992

 Message for External Users
 --------------------------

The University's terms of credit are payment within seven days of
receipt of invoice. As from today we will be terminating access to the 
network for users who do not meet this deadline. Reconnection will be 
unlikely.

Yours faithfully

 (written signature)
 
J.D.Luff
Operations Manager
Computer Centre.
 
 
 To be sent such a letter by somebody called J.D.Luff who signs a letter
 yours faithfully and does not even bother to address it to me nor identify
 their gender. Why I for some am personally affronted. It is a matter of
 record in nz.general where I offered my services ( I am a bank manager)
 as a donation to the Auckland University, to help them sort out their
 email billing problems and then in the mail I receive this letter with
 this months email bill.
 
 I am interested to hear how many other sites under the Auckland
 University domain received such a letter. Which brings to mind several
 questions to which I would like some vaild answers from sites under
 the Auckland University domains'.
 
 1/  Did every site receive this letter or is my site singled out?
 2/  Did other sites feel the same as this writer about the approach
     by this J.D.Luff?
 3/  Is this letter indeed cover under the terms and conditions of the
     credit contracts act (does someone have an opinon)?
 4/  Does this J.D.Luff have the authority to demand such payment, does
     someone have an opinon, maybe the Financial Registrar's Office?
 
  Finally will J.D.Luff have the decency to please respond with
  the several points raised above or you may most certainly ring me
  on (09) 358-5589 or revert directly in this news group.
 
  Regards,
 
  Jon Clarke
  System Administrator status.gen.nz
  Parnell
  Auckland


 Jon Clarke               (Z*NET FNET now in FIDO)                HSBC NZM EBD
 GEnie: J.CLARKE6          FIDONET: 3/772:105      TheNets: jonc@status.gen.nz
 T h e    Z * N E T    G l o b a l   N e w s   G a t e w a y    i n    N Z L .
Newsgroups: nz.netstatus
Subject: Re: Letter from Auckland university
From: jonc@status.gen.nz (Jon Clarke)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 07:41:13 GMT
Organization: Z*NET Global News Gateway in Auckland New Zealand

spt@waikato.ac.nz (Simon Travaglia) writes:

> name is Jim Luff, you'll probably get hold of him at the Computer Centre, 
> Auckland University), you've just posted to the net so we all think he's a re
> meanie for wanting payment for services.
> 
 
 Simon,
 
 I am glad you pretend to speak for me. But I am sorry to say you are way
 off track on this.
 
 My intention was to guage the responce of the letter sent by J.D.Luff
 to the paying (external) sites under AKL Uni. I am now lead to believe
 it was a form letter sent to all sites and I am not the only one who
 feels the same way.
 
 It has nothing to do with making "you" or others think he (J.D.Luff)
 is a meanie or any other hidden reasons.
 
 If this is how it is perceived I apologise, but maybe you and a few
 others should re-read the message again and ask why it is posted in
 this newsgroup rather than nz.general?

 Jon Clarke               (Z*NET FNET now in FIDO)                HSBC NZM EBD
 GEnie: J.CLARKE6          FIDONET: 3/772:105      TheNets: jonc@status.gen.nz
 T h e    Z * N E T    G l o b a l   N e w s   G a t e w a y    i n    N Z L .
Newsgroups: nz.netstatus
Subject: Re: Letter from Auckland university
From: jonc@status.gen.nz (Jon Clarke)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 07:30:08 GMT
Organization: Z*NET Global News Gateway in Auckland New Zealand

andy.linton@comp.vuw.ac.nz (Andy Linton) writes:

> 
> In article <B4ikoB1w164w@status.gen.nz>, jonc@status.gen.nz (Jon Clarke) writ
> |>  
> |>  To be sent such a letter by somebody called J.D.Luff who signs a letter
> |>  yours faithfully and does not even bother to address it to me nor identif
> |>  their gender. Why I for some am personally affronted. It is a matter of
> |>  record in nz.general where I offered my services ( I am a bank manager)
> |>  as a donation to the Auckland University, to help them sort out their
> |>  email billing problems and then in the mail I receive this letter with
> |>  this months email bill.
> 
> Gender? Why do you need to know? Perhaps you could treat the sender different
> if this person was a woman. It might also be useful to know their colour,
> religion, nationality and sexual preferences too!

 
 Andy,
 
 See my previous reply.  If I respond in snail mail to dear Sir and this
 J.D.Luff is indeed of the opposite gender it would be an affront to the
 receiver. 
 
 That is simply why I asked. No _HIDDEN_ agenda.

 Jon Clarke               (Z*NET FNET now in FIDO)                HSBC NZM EBD
 GEnie: J.CLARKE6          FIDONET: 3/772:105      TheNets: jonc@status.gen.nz
 T h e    Z * N E T    G l o b a l   N e w s   G a t e w a y    i n    N Z L .
Newsgroups: nz.netstatus
Newsgroups: nz.netstatus
From: patrick@actrix.gen.nz (Pat Cain)
Subject: Re: Letter from Auckland university
Organization: Actrix Information Exchange
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 00:38:30 GMT

In article <Bs4BBw.M2q@comp.vuw.ac.nz> mark@comp.vuw.ac.nz (Mark Davies) writes:
> 
> In article <B4ikoB1w164w@status.gen.nz>, jonc@status.gen.nz (Jon Clarke) writes:
> |>  To be sent such a letter by somebody called J.D.Luff who signs a letter
> |>  yours faithfully and does not even bother to address it to me nor identify
> |>  their gender.
> 
> What has their gender got to do with anything?


I agree, but I also dislike getting letters signed with just "XY Z".
I'd much rather get a letter signed with their first name so that if
I wished to ring up the organization I wouldn't have to say
"I'd like to speak to an XY Z" .. "Hello XY Z" etc.  Knowing the
gender (Ms. XY Z) makes it better because "Hello, can I please speak
to Ms. Z" sounds somewhat better.  What is the Politically Correct
way to sign your name, First Last is what I use.




-- 
Pat Cain, PO Box 2060, Wellington, NZ  ()  em: cain_p@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
Newsgroups: nz.netstatus
From: mark@comp.vuw.ac.nz (Mark Davies)
Subject: Re: Letter from Auckland university
Organization: Dept. of Comp. Sci., Victoria Uni. of Wellington, New Zealand.
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 22:56:38 GMT


In article <XwRooB3w164w@status.gen.nz>, jonc@status.gen.nz (Jon Clarke) writes:
|>  See my previous reply.  If I respond in snail mail to dear Sir and this
|>  J.D.Luff is indeed of the opposite gender it would be an affront to the
|>  receiver. 

If they sign their mail as "J.D.Luff"  what is wrong with replying with "Dear
J.D.Luff" ?

cheers
mark
Newsgroups: nz.netstatus
From: andy.linton@comp.vuw.ac.nz (Andy Linton)
Subject: Re: Letter from Auckland university
Organization: Dept of Comp Science, Victoria Uni, Wellington, NEW ZEALAND
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 22:00:49 GMT


In article <B4ikoB1w164w@status.gen.nz>, jonc@status.gen.nz (Jon Clarke) writes:
|>  
|>  To be sent such a letter by somebody called J.D.Luff who signs a letter
|>  yours faithfully and does not even bother to address it to me nor identify
|>  their gender. Why I for some am personally affronted. It is a matter of
|>  record in nz.general where I offered my services ( I am a bank manager)
|>  as a donation to the Auckland University, to help them sort out their
|>  email billing problems and then in the mail I receive this letter with
|>  this months email bill.

Gender? Why do you need to know? Perhaps you could treat the sender differently
if this person was a woman. It might also be useful to know their colour,
religion, nationality and sexual preferences too!
Newsgroups: nz.netstatus
From: Mary.Curtin@bbs.actrix.gen.nz
Subject: Re: Letter from Auckland university
Organization: Actrix Information Exchange
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 16:16:21 GMT

In article <1992Jul30.224648.2172@rata.vuw.ac.nz> thetroll@rata.vuw.ac.nz (The Troll) writes:

> Net Pit Bull in Training.

In training?  I thought you were an expert ....

-- 
\   \/   /  |  
 \/\/\/\/   |  mary.curtin@bbs.actrix.gen.nz

Xref: sparky nz.netstatus:175 alt.fan.warlord:5136
Newsgroups: nz.netstatus,alt.fan.warlord
Subject: Re: Letter from Auckland university
From: kilroy@acme.gen.nz (earthbound misfit, I)
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 92 04:08:49 GMT
Followup-To: alt.fan.warlord
Organization: ACME BBS - Public Access Usenet, Palmerston North, New Zealand
Summary: kilroy warlords another SPTsig

spt@waikato.ac.nz (Simon Travaglia) writes:

> jonc@status.gen.nz (Jon Clarke) writes:
>  
> > [...minor flame war...]
> 
> But seriously how many administrators have the time to read news.  I know that
> very few of ours do - the time involved in wading through the screeds of crap
> that I (for one) post to the net probably puts them off.

And that's just his signatures.....

> [...]
>
> -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
> This signature was created using RoboSig, the errorfree sigmaker.
> Simon Travaglia, spt@grace.waikato.ac.nz, Uni of Waikato, P B, Hamilton, NZ
> Disclaimer:  The opinions expressed in this article are those of the author
> and have no bearing his work or employers (but his teddy agrees with him)
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> REVIEWER'S NOTE: A rejection slip based upon literature and theories in
>  vogue during the period the reviewer was studying for his or her Ph.D. 

						- k
						(I'm sorry, I couldn't help
						 it. The Meach made me do it
						 - yeah, that's the ticket!)
-- 
Craig Harding            kilroy@acme.gen.nz             ACME BBS +64 63 3551342
"Jub'f Xvob?"
Newsgroups: nz.netstatus
From: thetroll@rata.vuw.ac.nz (The Troll)
Subject: Re: Letter from Auckland university
Organization: Computing Serv. Ctr, Victoria Uni., Wellington, New Zealand
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 22:46:48 GMT

In article <> jonc@status.gen.nz (Jon Clarke) writes:
>mark@comp.vuw.ac.nz (Mark Davies) writes:
>> What has their gender got to do with anything?

> I would be a matter of common courtousy to identify who you are so 
> any return mail (snail mail -sent-) could be correctly addressed.

Curiouser and Curiouser. First Jon Clarke seems not to know that for a
long time that the standard business practice was to sign letters 

Yours <faithfully> <sincerely>

Initals, surname
signature

And now they seem to be unware that contemporary standard business
practice is to address letters to either,

Dear Sir/Madam, 

or 

Dear first name, surname

or 

Dear initals, surname, 


I would note that as someone with a gender neutral first name, I have have
received letters where the first one was quite different in tone from
subsequent gender known letters (need I mention that the first letter
assumed that I was female?). So I am a little suspicious of anyone
*demanding* to know the gender of another person just so they can address
a letter correctly. 

Clarke, you can't have it both ways. Either you accept that J.D Luff was
being polite by signing their letter in what they considered to be a
polite manner or you are insisting that they conform to your ideas of what
being polite is, which seem out of step with both previous business
practice and contempory business practice. 

Perhaps you should check with your secretary as to what they were taught
in school as to the right way to set out a business letter. 

I suppose you'll start insisting on RFC 822 compliance on all the letters
you get from now on. 

BTW, does Auckland have local usenet groups? Down here, psotings such as
yours would probably appear in wgnt.chat, I suppose that's because
Wellington people are more polite than Aucklanders. 

Net Pit Bull in Training.


--
Alex Heatley                                Computing Services Centre
Domain: Alex.Heatley@vuw.ac.nz              Victoria University of Wellington
Xref: sparky nz.netstatus:158 nz.general:886
From: rich@tosh.wcc.govt.nz (Richard Naylor )
Newsgroups: nz.netstatus,nz.general,wcc.citynet
Subject: City Net Outage
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 10:43:13 GMT
Organization: City Net -  Wellington City Council's Community Computer Network

10:29:58
24-Jul-1992

                   WCC Computer Services Outage
                   ----------------------------
                   
The WCC Computer Service, City Net, will shut down today at 3pm
for a building re-location. It will not be available until 8am
Monday morning. This will affect ALL services and all nodes.

While it is estimated that services will be partially available
during the week-end, the above times are being quoted to allow to
difficulties in re-locating such a large and complex system. Some
systems such as WPL will not be moving until Sunday, so the times
quoted are for the total duration of expected outages.

We ask for your co-operation and understanding while this shift
takes place.

Any questions should be directed to Computer Services on +64 4
801-3300. The Help Desk will be manned during the week end and
staff will be here for most of the time.

Richard Naylor
Manager


--
rich@tosh.wcc.govt.nz (Richard Naylor )
From: kilroy@acme.gen.nz (earthbound misfit, I)
Subject: Re: Letter from Auckland university
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 92 12:19:30 GMT
Organization: Trollfen - the unofficial Alex Heatley Fan Club

thetroll@rata.vuw.ac.nz (The Troll) writes:

> I would note that as someone with a gender neutral first name, I have have
> received letters where the first one was quite different in tone from
> subsequent gender known letters (need I mention that the first letter
> assumed that I was female?). So I am a little suspicious of anyone
> *demanding* to know the gender of another person just so they can address
> a letter correctly. 

Yeah, I *suppose* you can call "The Troll" gender neutral.......

> I suppose you'll start insisting on RFC 822 compliance on all the letters
> you get from now on. 

Now there's an idea. Let's lobby parliament.

> BTW, does Auckland have local usenet groups? Down here, psotings such as
> yours would probably appear in wgnt.chat, I suppose that's because
> Wellington people are more polite than Aucklanders. 

Or more verbose, which generated the need for the local newsgroups. Actually,
by the sounds of it Aucklanders aren't on friendly enough speaking terms to
set up any local newsgroups.

> Net Pit Bull in Training.

Is it me, or is the re-appearance of that line in Alex's messages a Bad Sign?

						- k
-- 
Craig Harding            kilroy@acme.gen.nz             ACME BBS +64 63 3551342
"Jub'f Xvob?"
Newsgroups: nz.netstatus
Subject: Status.gen.nz
From: jonc@status.gen.nz (Jon Clarke)
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 92 17:04:29 GMT
Organization: Z*NET Global News Gateway in Auckland New Zealand

Due a malfunction between status.gen.nz and Auckland University last
week we have only just received our first mail packets since last
Sunday. 
 
Those who have emailed this site and are expecting a reply please bare
with us. It would seem kcbbs's modem to AKL UNI was not working.
 
regards

Jon Clarke
sysadmin status.gen.nz

 Jon Clarke               (Z*NET FNET now in FIDO)                HSBC NZM EBD
 GEnie: J.CLARKE6          FIDONET: 3/772:105      TheNets: jonc@status.gen.nz
 T h e    Z * N E T    G l o b a l   N e w s   G a t e w a y    i n    N Z L .
Newsgroups: nz.netstatus
Subject: Re: Letter from Auckland university
From: russells@ccu1.aukuni.ac.nz (Russell Street)
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 04:55:49 GMT
Organization: University of Auckland, New Zealand.

thetroll@rata.vuw.ac.nz (The Troll) writes:

> .... As for debit collection agencies,  ....
              ^^^^^
Never heard of these before! But imagine what would happen if
an agent from a *debit* collecting agency meets an agent
from a *credit* collecting agency :-)
 
Sorry, but I could not resist :-)
--------------------------------------------------------------
Russell Street (russells@ccu1.aukuni.ac.nz)

Secombe:  Right Mr Greenslade, segergate the sinful sexes ...
Milligan: Wait -- how many sexes are there?
Secombe:  Two.
Milligan: It is not enough, I say! Go out and order some more!


Newsgroups: nz.netstatus
From: mark@comp.vuw.ac.nz (Mark Davies)
Subject: Re: Letter from Auckland university
Organization: Dept. of Comp. Sci., Victoria Uni. of Wellington, New Zealand.
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 21:21:29 GMT


In article <B4ikoB1w164w@status.gen.nz>, jonc@status.gen.nz (Jon Clarke) writes:
|>  To be sent such a letter by somebody called J.D.Luff who signs a letter
|>  yours faithfully and does not even bother to address it to me nor identify
|>  their gender.

What has their gender got to do with anything?

cheers
mark
Newsgroups: nz.general
Subject: ShowTime of Dream Team????
From: hcha1@cs.aukuni.ac.nz (Heung Wing          Chat           )
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 22:33:40 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept. University of Auckland

Have U guy seen the open ceremony of Olympic Games??
It's great, isn't it???

However, I am not interested in all games.
And my favourite is Basket Ball!!

Could someone tell me  when will Channel one show basket ball???
Particularly,  when will it show USA vs XXX???
It's bl__dy hard to find the timetable of Olympic game!!!!

Heung CHAT
From: tom@thegrove.welly.gen.nz (Peter Browne)
Newsgroups: nz.general
Subject: Re: Email privacy ???
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 17:48:40 +1200
Organization: TheGrove Unlimited

clear@cavebbs.welly.gen.nz (Charlie Lear) writes:
(stuff deleted)

, I reserve the right to intercept or read any
> incoming or outgoing email from my users.

The rub to me appears to be that you would have to read the mail to
decide whether it was all the things you mention... obscene etc. How
do you decide which mail to read? > However every system administrator
is different - my position is that if I > may be held legally
accountable for the actions of any user, then I'm sure > as hell going
to make sure I retain the power to cover my butt. 

> But I'm dead against Prodigy-style censorship where email is
constantly > monitored and users routinely have their email edited or
killed by support > staff.

I can't really see the difference , in both cases mail is read. You
seem im this discussion to be saying that anything you do on your
board is OK because it's your baord. You could be right, but to me,
and by definition, E-mail is private, always and forever.


Tom

I have nothing to declare except my genius! (Oscar Wilde)
Newsgroups: nz.general
Subject: Re: Parlimentary Fire Sale (Was: Happy Guy Fawkes Day!)
From: russell@ccu1.aukuni.ac.nz (Russell Fulton)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 20:46:26 GMT
Organization: University of Auckland, New Zealand.

zoltar@glasgow.amigans.gen.nz (Grant Thoms) writes:


>Now the Sill prat Bolger intends even more to refurbish/rebuild the building.
>What a silly thing to do, especially when there are many people finding it
>hard living at the moment, sure the politcians don't have money worries,
>but there ARE people who are unemployed (Like myself) who can't understand
>why the Government would even _consider_ rebuilding the stupid building,
>when tere are people living on the streets, working the streets at night.

I think this view is some what short sighted. New Zealand is such a young
country, we have very little sense of history and culture (Maoris excepted!).
I think that it is important to preserve important pieces of the our past.
The other side of the issue is that the $100 million will end up in peoples
pockets just as surely as if it had been allocated to Social Welfare. (I
admit that the distribution will be somewhat different.) Such a job is very
labour intensive, a substantial portion on the total bill will be wages.

So while I agree it might be politically insensitive, just at the moment,
the project is not entirely without merit. I beleive it makes more sense
than building our national museum in its propsed location. (Quite aside
from the architectural questions.) Now that could be a real waste of 
money when the BIG one stikes! 

Cheers, Russell.
-- 
Russell Fulton, Computer Center, University of Auckland, New Zealand.
<rj_fulton@aukuni.ac.nz>
Newsgroups: nz.general
Subject: Re: Referendum '92 (MMP vs the pollyticians)
From: phys169@csc.canterbury.ac.nz
Date: 27 Jul 92 15:18:07 +1200
 <1992Jul20.004042.17653@peponi.wcc.govt.nz> <1992Jul20.033838.1958@actrix.gen.nz>
Organization: University of Canterbury, Christchurch, New Zealand

In article <1992Jul20.033838.1958@actrix.gen.nz>, Steve.Withers@bbs.actrix.gen.nz writes:
> .... Unless the highest polling
> alternative is STV or MMP, we would be better sticking with what we have
> now......the others would only emphasise the failing of what we have now - and
> make them worse.

I support MMP too (mainly because pushing anything else - were there a good
alternative anyway - would risk loosing any PR), however discussing alternative
forms of PR might be worthwhile.  

The first thing to discuss is whether using TLA's (STV, MMP, etc) is really a
Good Thing - or does it put people off?  How about referring to "The messy
system they use in Aussie" and "The present system (based on England but with
all sorts of protection - like and upper house - taken out)", and "The normal
Proportional Representation system found just about everywhere else". No bias
there, was there?? ;-)

The second thing is: I class the multi-member electorates, as used for ages in
NZ local bodies, as a form of Proportional Representation. I am surprised it
has never been one of the alternatives, although I guess it is only an
approximation to PR - in that statistically, the total number of
representatives would come close to PR (anyone done the figures?).

Mark Aitchison.
Newsgroups: nz.general
From: Mark.Penney@comp.vuw.ac.nz (Chopper Boy! ( Mark Penney ))
Subject: Happy Guy Fawkes Day!
Organization: Victoria University of Wellington, New Zealand.
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 00:05:56 GMT


Well, I was awoken to the sound of sirens this morning...

...went to investigate, and what do you know Guy Fawkes
came early this year! 

When I got into town; the old Parliment building was well
and truly ablaze!  Last I heard the fire was still going
(over 5 hours now), and about 4 firemen had been injured.
Wellington absolutely positively stinks of smoke!

The ironic thing is that tomorrow was supposed to be the first
day of refurbishment of the old building, how the hell they (we!)
were going to pay for that I don't know!!!!!

Mark.  (wings are for the birds!)

P.S.  FOR SALE:  Bags of Marsh-mellows, ideal for roasting...

8-)   8-)   8-)
Newsgroups: nz.general