HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jeff@aiai.ed.ac.uk (Jeff Dalton)
Newsgroups: talk.philosophy.misc
Subject: Re: the meaning of "freewill"
Date: 10 Sep 92 18:58:49 GMT
Organization: AIAI, University of Edinburgh, Scotland

In article <1992Sep10.151228.29297@news.eng.convex.com> cash@convex.com (Peter Cash) writes:
>In article <exukjb.143.716081235@exu.ericsson.se> exukjb@exu.ericsson.se (ken bell) writes:
>>                    I enjoy dropping in on this informal 
>>newsgroup once in a while because it's refreshing to see and exchange posts 
>>with people who have at least honestly, if sometimes naively, formulated, 
>>the problems, uncorrupted by philosophe academe or tradition. 
>
>"Uncorrupted by philosphical tradition?" Surely you mean "uninformed".  
>
>What if the discussion had been about astrophysics, and people had been
>arguing about whether the sun burns coal or oil to produce its energy.
>Would you say that this was a delightfully naive discussion that was
>"uncorrupted" by scientific inquiry? [...]

It's unreasonable to expect much in the way of cutting edge philosophy
on Usenet.  The real issue is, of course, whether the level of discussion
can or should be raised, at least a little.

I think there's something to be said for being uncorrupted, but I
don't think there's so much to be said for a refusal to become better
informed.  An approach that often works for me is this:

  1. Think about the problem first, before looking far into the
     literature.  This can be as uncorrupted as you like and may
     let you develop the sort of new ideas that only an uncorrupted
     approach can produce.  It will also put you in a good position
     to respond to what you read.

  2. Read some of the literature, then think some more.

  3. Repeat while still interested.

But where in this loop should be put "posting to usenet"?  I don't
especially mind if people put it after (1) so long as they also go
on to (2).

-- jd
From: ak254@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ralph A. Gardner-Chavis)
Newsgroups: talk.philosophy.misc
Subject: Re: free will
Date: 6 Sep 1992 01:21:00 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: ak254@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ralph A. Gardner-Chavis)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc4.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, ak254@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ralph A. Gardner-Chavis) says:

>
> 
>I will not live long enough to search all of the dictionaries for every 
>definition of `freewill'.  Most of what I have seen have been
>examples of the use of the word `freewill'.  The only entry that I
>considered an attempt at a definition said that freewill is `action without
>antecedent'.
> 
>If I ever hear anyone speaking fluent Sanskrit then I will know that 
>freewill is operating.  Since no one at this time has heard Sanskrit, 
>speaking it will be action without an antecedent.  (Of course, I will 
>not know that it is Sanskrit since I also have not heard it.) <G>
> 
>It can be said that we have choices but which ever choice is made is the one
>that has the determining factor as its antecedent.  No matter how slight is
>the factor which determines the choice, it is still the DETERMINING factor(s). 
>Thus the concept of freewill is a subjective illusion, it only appears to us
>that we have freewill. Someone who knows us very well can, within the limit of
>their knowledge, both of our past experiences and how these past experiences
>will influence us at this instant, predict our next action.  It is very, very
>seldom that this knowledge is available to anyone and generally not even
>available to us.  The `choices' which are not taken may be considered
>`virtual' choices since they are not real and did not occur at that instant.

If chaos, QM, or a cosmic ray acts upon the mind before the particular instant
these are merely causal factors which happened before which may or may not 
contribute to the `determining factor(s)'which cause the particular act.

With respect to predictions of behavior, one must know everything  that has
happened to the person up to that instant and also how each experience in 
the past may or may not influence the person at that instant. Since the past
experiences may be subliminal messages they may not be easily accessed by 
the individual. However, the institutions which would like to accuse us of
operating on freewill choices with the possibility of doing otherwise, and 
thus becoming candidates for punishment, use the techniques of determinism 
to influence our freewill through preaching, teaching etc.  If freewill is
influencible, then it is not freewill.   
-- 
Intelligent life on Mars? 
I didn't think there was intelligent life on Earth!
Newsgroups: talk.rumors
From: bruehler@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Jim Bruehler)
Subject: muppet ???
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 14:56:47 GMT

Remember the Muppet show?  Picture in your mind's eye the muppet that read the 
news.  Can you see him? OK. Hold that thought.....

Now picture Al Gore.  ???
Xref: sparky talk.rumors:1014 alt.conspiracy:10640
From: f_gautjw@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Newsgroups: talk.rumors,alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: Bo Gritz and Idaho situation
Date: 15 Sep 92 19:45:11 CST
Distribution: usa
Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University

In article <1992Sep15.231012.19655@afterlife.ncsc.mil>, acadams@afterlife.ncsc.mil (Arthur C. Adams) writes:
> In article <1992Sep15.150532.27998@hellgate.utah.edu> dpugmire%peruvian.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (David Pugmire) writes:
>>>A letter in the Washington Post today states that Bo Gritz
>>>is the nominee of the "Progressive Party", the party under
>>>which David Duke ran for the White House in '88.
>>
>>I'm probably wrong, but I thought Bo Gritz was running for the
>>Populist Party.
> 
> 
> Come to think of it, it _was_ the Populist Party. 
> The point isn't the name, the point is the Duke ties.
> -- 
> The world is not analog. The world is digital,
> with an incredible number of bits.
> Arthur C. Adams (not the comic-book artist)                        <fnord>
> E-Mail acadams@afterlife.ncsc.mil

Out of curiosity I phoned someone this afternoon who is supposed to know.
I understand he is on the ballot in about 25 states.  Of those states
he is listed in most of them as an Independent.  In three or four states
he is on the "America First Party" ticket (or some similar name) and
if I heard correctly he is on the populist ticket (not certain of name)
in about three states.  He is not on the ballot in Texas.  

Having watched David Duke over a period of time in the neighboring
state of Louisiana and having barely glimpsed Bo Gritz, my first impression
is that the two are no way similar.
From: gt4627b@prism.gatech.EDU (gt4627b Matthew Kramer)
Newsgroups: talk.rumors
Subject: Re: Pres. Hillary Clinton
Date: 15 Sep 92 20:19:37 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

In article <1992Sep15.121434.1@woods.ulowell.edu> cotera@woods.ulowell.edu writes:
>Is it true that Hillary Clinton is a closet lesbian? That would explain
>Gennifer Flowers.
Well, then. Would that make Hillary Clinton [sic].. Her real last name
is'nt Clinton.. the first lady? What would she be called then?
-- 
 *----------------------------------------------------------------------------*
 | ARPA: gt4627b@prism.gatech.edu  | Chairman,Georgia Tech College Republicans|
 | Matthew C. Kramer,(404)881-8402 | First Meeting:Sept 28th 7pm, SC Room 320 |
 *----------------------------------------------------------------------------*
Xref: sparky talk.rumors:1004 alt.conspiracy:10629
From: lush@en.ecn.purdue.edu (Gregory B Lush)
Newsgroups: talk.rumors,alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: Bo Gritz and Idaho situation
Date: 15 Sep 92 15:28:07 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

There has been a couple requests for more info regarding the situation
in Idaho.  I will post it when I get a chance.  It might take a week
for me to get it in though.

Greg
Xref: sparky talk.rumors:1010 alt.conspiracy:10635
From: rogue@ccs.northeastern.edu (Free Radical)
Newsgroups: talk.rumors,alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: Bo Gritz
Date: 15 Sep 92 20:07:02 GMT
Organization: Comp. Sci. @ NU

In article <1992Sep11.184408.26399@en.ecn.purdue.edu>
lush@en.ecn.purdue.edu (Gregory B Lush) writes: 
[...]
>My understanding is that Gritz did not know the fellow in Idaho before
>this fellow asked for him to come and arbitrate.  

Yes of course Bo knew Weaver - he trained him before he went to Nam.
I'll dig up a source for this if you need it - let me know.

	RA

rogue@ccs.northeastern.edu
--------------------------
The NSA is now funding research not only in cryptography, but in all areas
of advanced mathematics. If you'd like a circular describing these new
research opportunities, just pick up your phone, call your mother, and
ask for one.
Organization: Masters student, Urban and Public Affairs, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: talk.rumors
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 10:32:23 -0400 
From: Brennan Kraje <nk0s+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: muppet ???
Distribution: usa


    Yes, yes, yes, I see him clearly.

                                - Brennan

Xref: sparky talk.rumors:995 alt.conspiracy:10563
From: lush@en.ecn.purdue.edu (Gregory B Lush)
Newsgroups: talk.rumors,alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: Bo Gritz
Date: 11 Sep 92 18:44:08 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network


In article <95624@bu.edu> mwise@acs.bu.edu (Matthew Wise) writes:
>
>Bo Gritz: presidential candidate, highly decorated vietnam vet, hostage
>negotitator, etc, etc.
>

My understanding is that Gritz did not know the fellow in Idaho before
this fellow asked for him to come and arbitrate.  Both are Special
Forces veterans and that is apparently a strong bond.  There were
many Special Forces vets there (est. 1000's) to support him.
The man in Idaho has info on Bush and the Administration which
would be quite damaging so the order went out to get him.
I believe that he cannot release the info without breaking Federal
laws regarding national security.  If you would like to know more,
I'll post some later and maybe I can send some hard copies out once
I get it.

>
>what is his connection with the White Supremacist groups?

There is no connection.  Be wary of the "info" you get from the major media.

>
>mwise@acs.bu.edu                                     _Pryck_:a bodyart magazine
>student: Can essential Buddha-nature be destroyed?
>Coyote: Yes. Do you have an eraser?

Greg
From: mwise@acs.bu.edu (Matthew Wise)
Newsgroups: talk.rumors
Subject: Re: Bo GritzDIR
Date: 11 Sep 92 15:49:25 GMT
Organization: Boston University, Boston, MA, USA

Message  1:
From root Wed Sep  9 16:51:06 1992
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 92 16:49:54 -0400
From: dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
To: mwise@acs.bu.edu
Subject: Re: Bo Gritz
Newsgroups: talk.rumors,alt.conspiracy
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Cc: 

In article <95624@bu.edu> you write:

#Bo Gritz: presidential candidate, highly decorated vietnam vet, hostage
#negotitator, etc, etc.
#
#what gives with this guy?
#
#
#what is his connection with the White Supremacist groups?
#
#why did he 'just happen' to show up on that hill in Idaho [his own words to
# "A Current Affair" last night] ?
#
#What's cookin' Bo?

This article about Bo Gritz appeared on usenet some time ago. I am 
not an expert on Gritz so please don't take this as reflecting my
opinion.

Regards,

-Danny Keren.
*******************************************************************
>From brunix!uunet!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ucla-cs!lanai.cs.ucla.edu!pierce Sat Apr 18 23:56:20 EDT 1992
Article: 11639 of alt.conspiracy
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
From: acadams@afterlife.ncsc.mil (Arthur C. Adams)
Newsgroups: talk.rumors,alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: Bo Gritz and Idaho situation
Date: 15 Sep 92 23:10:12 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: The Great Beyond

In article <1992Sep15.150532.27998@hellgate.utah.edu> dpugmire%peruvian.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (David Pugmire) writes:
>>A letter in the Washington Post today states that Bo Gritz
>>is the nominee of the "Progressive Party", the party under
>>which David Duke ran for the White House in '88.
>
>I'm probably wrong, but I thought Bo Gritz was running for the
>Populist Party.


Come to think of it, it _was_ the Populist Party. 
The point isn't the name, the point is the Duke ties.
-- 
The world is not analog. The world is digital,
with an incredible number of bits.
Arthur C. Adams (not the comic-book artist)                        <fnord>
E-Mail acadams@afterlife.ncsc.mil
From: cotera@woods.ulowell.edu
Newsgroups: talk.rumors
Subject: Pres. Hillary Clinton
Date: 15 Sep 92 17:14:34 GMT
Organization: University of Lowell

Is it true that Hillary Clinton is a closet lesbian? That would explain
Gennifer Flowers.
From: naturman@uctvax.uct.ac.za
Newsgroups: talk.rumors
Subject: Ted Turner = Saudi Arabia?
Date: 15 Sep 92 16:12:57 +0200
Organization: University of Cape Town

Is it true that Ted Turner is heavily funded by Saudi Arabia?
 
*****************************************************************************
* Baby Doc Naturman                                                         *
* USS Enterprise                           "It's life Jim,                  *
* Final Frontier                                  but not as we know it."   *
* naturman@uctvax.uct.ac.za                                                 *
*                                                       Spock of Vulcan     *
*****************************************************************************
Xref: sparky talk.rumors:1005 alt.conspiracy:10631
From: acadams@afterlife.ncsc.mil (Arthur C. Adams)
Newsgroups: talk.rumors,alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: Bo Gritz and Idaho situation
Date: 15 Sep 92 16:28:40 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: The Great Beyond

A letter in the Washington Post today states that Bo Gritz
is the nominee of the "Progressive Party", the party under
which David Duke ran for the White House in '88.
-- 
The world is not analog. The world is digital,
with an incredible number of bits.
Arthur C. Adams (not the comic-book artist)                        <fnord>
E-Mail acadams@afterlife.ncsc.mil
Newsgroups: talk.rumors
From: cs169063@cs.brown.edu (Jason Rosenberg)
Subject: Re: Tailgunner Dan Quayle
Organization: Brown Computer Science Dept.
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 20:48:34 GMT

   vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
|> Maybe I'm paranoid (and maybe I'm not), but you can bet your mortgage that
|> four more years of Georgie boy will mean 4 more years of elite-baiting.
|> --
|> Dave!

Don't forget: Even paranoids can have enemies...

Jason Rosenberg
Xref: sparky talk.rumors:998 alt.conspiracy:10590
From: f_gautjw@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Newsgroups: talk.rumors,alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: Bo Gritz
Date: 13 Sep 92 11:21:34 CST
Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University


> In article <95624@bu.edu> mwise@acs.bu.edu (Matthew Wise) writes:



> The man in Idaho has info on Bush and the Administration which
> would be quite damaging so the order went out to get him.
> I believe that he cannot release the info without breaking Federal
> laws regarding national security.  If you would like to know more,
> I'll post some later and maybe I can send some hard copies out once
> I get it.


	I wouldd be interested in such a posting.  I is my understandng
that Weaver's troubled stemmed from his lack of cooperation with the
FBI in functioning as a stoolie for them.  To get even, they set up
a sting with the slightly under-length sawed off shotgun drama.

From: reykja@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Reykja Sigurdsson)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 08:32:43 GMT
Subject: Re: rumor
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: talk.rumors

In talk.rumors, ingram@cs.duke.edu (Robert E. Ingram,02N,6606573,9294051) writes:

> The motto for the Republican convention will be:
> 	
> 	"Big Brother is Watching You"

     that would be too close to the truth to be a rumor! 



> 
Xref: sparky talk.rumors:989 alt.conspiracy:10526
From: mwise@acs.bu.edu (Matthew Wise)
Newsgroups: talk.rumors,alt.conspiracy
Subject: Bo Gritz
Date: 9 Sep 92 19:55:52 GMT
Followup-To: talk.rumors
Organization: Boston University, Boston, MA, USA
Originator: mwise@acs.bu.edu


Bo Gritz: presidential candidate, highly decorated vietnam vet, hostage
negotitator, etc, etc.

what gives with this guy?


what is his connection with the White Supremacist groups?

why did he 'just happen' to show up on that hill in Idaho [his own words to
 "A Current Affair" last night] ?

What's cookin' Bo?
-- 
mwise@acs.bu.edu                                     _Pryck_:a bodyart magazine
student: Can essential Buddha-nature be destroyed?
Coyote: Yes. Do you have an eraser?
From: mikey@slic.cts.com (Mike Shirley)
Newsgroups: talk.rumors
Subject: Re: muppet ???
Summary: See if Brad will let it fly...
Date: 15 Sep 92 06:35:34 GMT
Organization: Muth Valley Seismic Control District, San Diego, CA / Port2

bruehler@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Jim Bruehler) writes:

> Remember the Muppet show?  Picture in your mind's eye the muppet that read th
> news.  Can you see him? OK. Hold that thought.....
> 
> Now picture Al Gore.  ???

You should post that to rec.humor.funny (funny@clarinet)...

--
     Mike, WB6WUI   //   INET:  mikey@slic.cts.com   //   GEnie: SLIC
Organization: University of Maine System
Date: Monday, 7 Sep 1992 14:24:32 EDT
From: <IO20738@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Newsgroups: talk.rumors
Subject: Fidel Castro led L.A. riots?!?

     Is it true that Fidel Castro led the riots in L.A.?  I read
it in The Sun.  Which is a magazine of high journalistic standards!
              NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
%              %
%    *   *     %
%      *       %
%              %
%     ---      %
%              %
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Newsgroups: talk.rumors
From: cotera@woods.ulowell.edu
Subject: Presidential Election
Organization: University of Lowell
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 15:26:50 GMT

     Vote for Andre Marrou, Libertarian for President.
Newsgroups: talk.rumors
From: steinman@me.utoronto.ca (David Steinman)
Subject: Tailgunner Dan Quayle
Organization: UofT Mechanical Engineering
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 20:31:19 GMT

I was watching "Guilty By Suspicion" last night (DeNiro film about
McCarthyism).  And while this has probably occurred to many out there, I
just realized how similar the "family values" tactic is to red-baiting
(hey, I'm writing my thesis; I'm allowed to be a little slow).

Anyway, McCarthy and Cohn went after Hollywood, because it got them press.
I'm sure Quayle didn't expect the Murphy Brown theme to take off, but once
it did, boyoboy were the Republicans on their horse about Hollywood and the
media elite.  Throw in the Hill-Thomas debacle and you've got a lynch mob
mentality developing.

Maybe I'm paranoid (and maybe I'm not), but you can bet your mortgage that
four more years of Georgie boy will mean 4 more years of elite-baiting.
--
Dave!
Newsgroups: talk.rumors,alt.conspiracy
From: dpugmire%peruvian.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (David Pugmire)
Subject: Re: Bo Gritz and Idaho situation
Date: 15 Sep 92 15:05:32 MDT
Organization: University of Utah
Distribution: usa

>A letter in the Washington Post today states that Bo Gritz
>is the nominee of the "Progressive Party", the party under
>which David Duke ran for the White House in '88.

I'm probably wrong, but I thought Bo Gritz was running for the
Populist Party.
Xref: sparky talk.rumors:996 alt.conspiracy:10578
From: bd@fluent@dartmouth.EDU (Brice Dowaliby)
Newsgroups: talk.rumors,alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: Bo Gritz
Date: 12 Sep 92 14:06:00 GMT
Reply-To: bd%fluent@dartmouth.EDU
Distribution: na
Organization: Fluent Inc., Lebanon NH


lush@en.ecn.purdue.edu (Gregory B Lush) writes:

>The man in Idaho has info on Bush and the Administration which
>would be quite damaging so the order went out to get him.
>I believe that he cannot release the info without breaking Federal
>laws regarding national security.

I didn't follow the Idaho thing closely, but this is the first
I've heard of such a thing.

Would you provide details?

Thanks,
bd
-- 
   Brice Dowaliby, Fluent Inc., 10 Cavendish Court, Lebanon, NH  03766
                         bd%fluent@dartmouth.edu        
             I don't speak for them, they don't speak for me
                              DoD # 0698
Xref: sparky talk.rumors:997 talk.politics.misc:45092
From: rem@btr.btr.com (Robert E. Maas  rem@btr.com)
Newsgroups: talk.rumors,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Bush's own words: "Vice President Gore"
Date: 12 Sep 92 15:16:40 GMT
Followup-To: talk.rumors
Distribution: usa
Organization: BTR Public Access UNIX, MtnView CA. Contact: Customer Service cs@BTR.COM

On tonight's Arsenio Hall show (the show with a big audience from
Deeeetroit which corrected his pronounciation of the city's name, and
Arsenio's complaint about Bush's proposed tax cut that amounts to five
dollars a week per family, just enough to buy a piece of cardboard and
some paint and make a sign saying "Will Work for Food"), in the
monologue, Arsenio said that George Bush accidently referred to Albert
Gore as "Vice President Gore", then proceeded to make a big joke out of
it but failed to supply any details. I don't regard Arsenio's jokes as
the absolute truth, so at the moment I consider it a "rumor", hence my
posting here. Is the claim correct? Has Bush accidently admitted he's
given up hopes of winning re-election? What were the circumstances of
the slip of the tongue?

I read talk.rumors about once or twice a week, and check my e-mail
daily, so feel free to reply either way.

(P.S. I tried to post this last night but our Pnews was down.)
Xref: sparky talk.rumors:1012 alt.conspiracy:10637
Newsgroups: talk.rumors,alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: Bo Gritz and Idaho situation
From: <LIBRBA@BYUVM.BITNET>
Date: Tuesday, 15 Sep 1992 11:56:52 MDT
 du><1992Sep15.152807.12415@en.ecn.purdue.edu><1992Sep15.162840.12481@afterlife.ncsc.mil>
Distribution: usa
Organization: Brigham Young University

In article <1992Sep15.162840.12481@afterlife.ncsc.mil>,
acadams@afterlife.ncsc.mil (Arthur C. Adams) says:
>
>A letter in the Washington Post today states that Bo Gritz
>is the nominee of the "Progressive Party", the party under
>which David Duke ran for the White House in '88.

   I thought it was the Populist Party, on both counts... ?
--
Rick Anderson                 "Yesterday's news is tomorrow's
Musikforschungsfuhrer            fish and chip paper." - Elvis Costello
Lee Library, BYU
librba@BYUVM.BITNET                       Disclaimer: BYU disagrees.
From: terwill@arecibo.aero.org (Bill who?)
Newsgroups: talk.rumors
Subject: Oh Brother, Big Brother and You.
Date: 14 Sep 1992 12:15 -0800
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation
Distribution: world
Reply-To: terwill@arecibo.aero.org
NNTP-Posting-Host: arecibo.aero.org
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

The truth is out. Big Brother is going to get you if you are a white
supremists (sp?)! Lord knows (pick your own diety please) that no neo-facist
would ever have a shotgun of illegal length in his possesion. What if it
fell on his flame-thrower, or put a ding in his cruise missle? Bob
Gritz would be in tears.

George Bush and Dan Quayle, dressed like Clinton and Gore, planted the
illegal weapon in Idaho to draw attention away from Jennifer Flowers
who is pregnant with Hillary Clinton's baby! And, ET and Elvis took
pictures of the entire event from their UFO. Look for next weeks
Enquiror, article written by someone named Lush (an FBI code name if
I ever heard one.)


WET
Xref: sparky talk.rumors:991 alt.conspiracy:10551