HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: danaf@bray1a.its.rpi.edu (Frank R. Dana Jr.)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: COMMODORE - HERE'S A CLUE
Date: 30 Sep 92 23:17:21 GMT
Article-I.D.: rpi.ajlzv8l
Reply-To: danaf@rpi.edu
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY.

In article <1a8a84INN17j@uwm.edu>, gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block) writes:
|> danaf@bray1a.its.rpi.edu (Frank R. Dana Jr.) writes:
|> : Ratios are just plain stupid in most applications. It's STILL cheap, and as a
|> : portion of the entire computer's cost it is inconsequential. You wanna play 
|> : number games? OK.. If a 68000 A500 costs $400, and a 68020-based A500 would c
|> : $500, ISN'T it 125% better????? I'd say it's more than TWICE as good!
|> 
|> Wrong again, unfortunately.  If the cost to build the system raised by
|> $100, the system's cost itself would likely raise by $200-300.

Well, fact is we don't KNOW how much it would cost. But I think (with my now-
unexaggerated cost estimation of the '020, something more like $75) that C=
would be able to build in a $60 chip-price-increase for under $200 list raise,
which could probably translate QUICKLY to about $100, $125 street increase.

|> : We were talking about the 1985 Paula chip... definitely yesteryear's technolo
|> 
|> Not even Atari was dumb enough to try and create a custom chip that
|> did 16-bit audio, the job is much better given to a DSP to handle.

It doesn't have to be super-CD-quality to get BETTER. A couple of extra channels
would be nice, for one thing. Four is pretty good, but somewhat limiting.

And WHERE THE HELL IS THE DSP???? I don't see it! Why has it taken them THIS
LONG to even announce plans for it? I think there's wayyyy too much navel-
contemplation going on at Commodore lately...

I've never said that the Amiga should be sme sort of SPARCstation clone right
out of the box. The A4000 configuration (with the addition of standard, built-
in SCSI....) would make a nice base for the high-end Amigas. My problem is that
there's no EXPANDABILITY built in there! Sure, you can put in a DSP... someday.
You'll have to sacrifice another of your precious slots for a SCSI card (and
don't forget, it only has 4 or 3+Video), and you __C A N N O T__, no matter how
much you whinge and beg, add more CHIP RAM.

|> Greg
|> 
|> --
|> (: (: (: (: Have you overdosed on smileys today?  Why NOT!?! :) :) :) :)
|> (: 	"Yeah, if improving the system is screwing the user base,     :)
|> (:	 you all need to be screwed more often." -Dave Haynie	      :)
|> (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

-- 
/////////////////////////[[[[[[[[[[]]]]]]]]]]\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
(718)             (212)                        (516)             (518)
=======Amiuser============Frank R. Dana, Jr.============Doc Ami=======     
--------My opinions rarely reflect those of any sane person,----------
	   living, dead, or undead... that's gonna CHANGE.
From: etxansk@garbo.ericsson.se
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: READ THIS AMIGANS, FALCON 030 SPECS
Date: 29 Sep 92 15:59:22 GMT
Organization: Ericsson
Originator: etxansk@garbod20

skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls) writes:

>In article <8cwTRB1w164w@cellar.org> darling@cellar.org (Thomas Darling) writes:
>>(Rune Hyldmo) bawls:
>>
>>> I am sick and tierd of all you Amiga-dorks out there trying to tell us
>>> that the new low-end amigas will crush the FALCON. 
>>>
>>> Have you stopped to think at all, I know it is a little to much to ask of
>>> an Amiga freak, but still...
>>
>>As an avid Atari user who is anxiously awaiting the Falcon myself, I feel I
>>have enough perspective on the issue to say this: You, "Rune," are a brain-
>>dead, juvenile, asinine waste of oxygen.  The fact that the rest of us
>>Atari users don't want to see your drivel in Atari newsgroups gives you no
>>right to come over here and burden c.s.a.a. with your presence.  You're

>That is funny.  Most Amiga users feel the same about you and the other two
>or three Atari users left in the world who post here so often.

 Most Amiga and Atari users are young gamers with no net access, fortunately
they can't post articles to c.s.a.a (at least not with reasonable effort).

 Btw, I always thought that this advocacy group was formed to keep
a discussion about the Amiga vs other powerful home computers going.

 Anders Skelander
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett)
Subject: Re: Amiga 4000 but NO AUDIO
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 20:40:55 GMT

In article <1992Sep27.105649.12609@lth.se> e91sg@efd.lth.se (Stefan Gimeson) writes:
>All my sources at C= sweden told me so, and they have not lied to me 
>yet, so if we don't get DSP & 16 bit sound by christmas, I'll gladly
>eat a box full off floppies...(yum,yum!) :-)

   Will we be getting 16-bit sound in *STANDARD HARDWARE* by this Christmas?
Or by Christmas of 1994, for that matter?

>/Stefan
>
>===============================================================================
>Stefan Gimeson                (e91sg@efd.lth.se)                              *
>Tunavagen 39 B660                                                             *
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>Phone (0)46-141386   * *        (             )         (     -D.M-    )      *
>=================================(           )===========(            )========
>Disclaimer - These opiini^H^H damn! ^H^H ^Q ^[ .... :w  :q  :wq  :wq! ^d  X ^?*
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>man help ^C ^c help exit ?Quit ?q CtrlShftDel "Hey, what does this button d..."
>                                                                              *
>===============================================================================
>

---
| Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
-----------------------------------------------------
COLLEGE FOOTBALL COACH WANTED.  Absolutely *NO* qualifications required
(we'll take *ANYBODY*).  Contact the ISU athletic office for details.
From: CS19241727H@LUST.LATROBE.EDU.AU (KOUKOULAS, STEVEN)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Need some FTP sites..
Date: 5 Oct 92 04:26:58 GMT
Organization: La Trobe University
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.24


	Help,
	   I need som,e ftp sites on the following topics..

	1. Tobias Richter Graphics..

	2. Eric Schwartz animations..

	3. Objects for use in Imagine, Sculpt, Real 3d and Caligari 2.x on

		Cars, Computers and Terminator 2 characters or objects..


								Thanks..
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: davidme@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au (David Meiklejohn)
Subject: Re: REAL FALCON 030 SPECS
Organization: Qld Dept Primary Industries
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 07:32:51 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.055356.23930@gbrmpa.gov.au> matt@gbrmpa.gov.au (Matt) writes:
>In article <1aar7nINNd2m@uwm.edu> gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block) writes:
>>etxansk@garbod20.ericsson.se (Anders Skelander) writes:
>>:  When I owned both machines, I got the impression that such software
>>: as assemblers, high-level language compilers etc, generally ran faster
>>: on the ST. My overall impression was that the Amiga was kept back by
>>: slower CPU speed and unbelievably slow disk access.       
>
>If you're using compilers/assemblers then fork out some more and get a Hard
>Drive, really, anyone who uses a floppy system for 'Productivity' work is
>a fool.

I used to use a C compiler with my A1000 with only floppies, with no real
problems.  Mind you, I thought that recoverable ram drives were the greatest
thing invented when they first appeared.  These days, with my hard drive,
I don't bother with RAD:.

Of course, now that you can get an A600 with hard drive for what a plain
A500 used to go for, there's no excuse.


-- 
David Meiklejohn (also known as davidme@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au)
 - Regional support guy for PC's, Unix, and networks thereof.
 - But I'd rather be using an AMIGA!  Wouldn't you?
Find me in Mareeba, Australia (on the pointy bit in the northeast),
From: gene@zach.fit.edu (Van Sant/ADVISOR Tamir)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: such a rumor
Date: 6 Oct 92 17:05:01 GMT
Organization: Florida Institute of Technology, Melbourne USA

OK netters here it is:  C= releases the new amiga with a 64 bit CPU bus.  C= has also announced that it has *something* in the works with DIGITAL, (yes the caps are intentional :-).  DIGITAL has announced their new 64 bit risk processor, teh alpha, (apparently the best thing since beer in cans!)  So is it possible? An alpha based amiga, (insert angelic choir here)???  I know their are some DIGITAL affiliated folks out their, please stop this horrible rumor befor it goes any further.

No flames please, (WELL I CAN ASK CAN'T I)


-- 
^___^
 o 0   Please respond via EMAIL to:   WELLSJ@Patrick-PIMS.af.mil
 {"}
  ^    Opinions expressed herein etc. etc.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: laire@uni-paderborn.de (Ralph Schmidt)
Subject: Re: The return of the 040 vs 486 thread..Re: My next machine: Amiga or PC Clone? Help me out.
Organization: Uni-GH Paderborn
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 19:49:27 GMT

das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A) writes:

>In article <OA92-901-306p1_8BDE206D@piraya.bad.se> Hans_Bergengren@p1.thulos.bbs.bad.se (Hans Bergengren) writes:
>>
>> PT> The Dell 66 DX2 system is rated at 29.3MIPS by PowerMeter 1.5. Dunno
>> PT> about the 040.
>>
>>The figures I've heard (and most other people as well, I guess) is that a
>>25MHz i486 manages 'bout 15 MIPS, and the '040 weighs in at 20 powerful MIPS,
>>also running at 25 MHz, therefore being about 25% faster than the i486.
>>NOW: one just can't compare MIPS from different CPU architectures, so it's
>>much better to run some sort of dhrystone speed tester on each platform you
>>want to compare.

>Yes, MIPS doesn't mean a whole unless the computer does what you want it
>to do, which usually means running the software you want.

>I must clarify though the the i486/25Mhz runs at 23Mhz internally
                                                  **=25(A typo,i guess)
>as well as 25Mhz externally.  The 040/25Mhz runs at *50*Mhz
>internally and at 25 Mhz externally.  Therefore, this comparison
>really isn't vaild (whatever _that_ means :-)  ).  
Mmmmh..perhaps a Motorola employee should comment in what parts
the 68040 is running 50MHZ internally....in my old 68040 Docs
it wasn`t very clear.


Regards...
-- 
Ralph Schmidt                                            laire@uni-paderborn.de
University of Paderborn (Germany)
From: etxansk@garbo.ericsson.se
Subject: Re: REAL FALCON 030 SPEC
Originator: etxansk@garbod20
Organization: Ericsson
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 10:32:03 GMT

Aric.Caley@ofa123.fidonet.org writes:

>> [stuff deleted]
>>
>Slower CPU speed: The A500/A2000's CPU speed is only slightly less than
>an ST.  And of course, there are a multitude of ways to get a faster CPU
>on an Amiga.  True, disk access was slow; but we have FFS and now with
>3.0 the DCached FFS that is plenty fast.  Plus it stores 880K versus 720K
>(or 1.76meg with HD disks).  Not to mention that, if you want, you can
>read/write Atari disks directly.
>
> [stuff deleted]
>
>And, finaly, "..the Amiga was kept back by..."  Kept back?  In case you
>hadn't noticed, the Amiga is far more popular and more well supported
>than the Atari.  Kept back?  When we have 20+ MIPS machines?  I dont see
>any '040 based Ataris.
>
>(I guess this is more directed at Anders Skelander. Oh well..)

 But you did agree that the disk access was slow, so the Amiga _was_ kept
back by it, at the time. I bought an Atari 520ST computer in 1987, a 1040ST
in 1988, and so did many friends of mine at High School because the Atari
obviously was a more convenient machine to use for learning 68000 assembler
and try algorithms with good BASIC interpreters. I insist on that the Amiga
was kept back by its well designed but less efficient OS.

 Again, what I'm _still_ trying to say is that the Falcon may not be
slower than Commodore's Falcon-wanna-be just because it (the F~) appears
to have a more limited bus architecture. I've only used the ST vs Amiga
comparison as an evidence to prove this. We all know by now that the ST
is dead because it has lost its top position in the European game market,
the market that is even more important to Commodore, since they've got
no profitable machine at all in the US market right now. Atari have got
the Lynx.

>I believe the Arch will kill both the A500 and the ST.

 That would be good news for the UK. I thought they would never
get back after the Sinclair QL's failure. One could argue that
Acorn's chances in the US market are small, look at the "What the heck is
an Archimedes" discussion, but on the other hand Commodore and Atari
don't hold huge market shares any longer either.
 
 Anders Skelander

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: laire@uni-paderborn.de (Ralph Schmidt)
Subject: Re: REAL FALCON 030 SPECS
Organization: Uni-GH Paderborn
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 06:18:57 GMT

dfrancis@tronsbox.xei.com (Dennis Heffernan) writes:

>In article <1992Sep28.143309.164683@dstos3.dsto.gov.au> rws@dstos3.dsto.gov.au writes:
>|So we're back to my original point, I have stated time and time again that the
>|4000 and the falcon are not going to be competing they are aimed at different
>|markets.  What I am saying and have always said is that commodore need a low
>|end machine with falcon type specs.  The home market is very important to
>|commodore and the only reason you have a 3000 let alone a 4000 is because the
>|amiga has been kept alive by the 500.  

>	Why does Commodore NEED this machine?  Like I said, the current models
>are still selling.  If at some future point the company starts losing sales
>on those models then they'll need to be changed.  UNTIL THEN, if it ain't
>broke you don't @#$! with it.

>	Maybe when the Falcon gets into the stores you'll have a point, but
>until then Commodore has nothing to lose sleep over.  There's nothing to be
>gained by screwing up your marketing over vaporware.


I don't think that Commo worry about the Falcon.
IMHO they had to publish a new COSTEFFECTIVE machine to
compete against Clowns and to calm down the Amiga community
for a while. An important reason is also that they had to
publish a 256colour chipset to allow cheap SVGA gfx translation
to the Amiga.

BTW: If you wait for a new modell until you loose a lot of market
     share it's not possible to come back.
     Today the Clowns rule the consumer business and you can be
     lucky if you can protect your market share.

Regards.
-- 
Ralph Schmidt                                            laire@uni-paderborn.de
University of Paderborn (Germany)
From: chucks@pnet51.orb.mn.org (Erik Funkenbusch)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Its a sad sad day...
Date: 2 Oct 92 05:45:04 GMT
Organization: People-Net [pnet51], Minneapolis, MN.

jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>chucks@pnet51.orb.mn.org (Erik Funkenbusch) writes:
>>
>>Hmm.. Let's see you put an AT 16 bit graphics or sound card into an XT
>>machine, what?  You have to upgrade your motherboard to do it?
>>
>
>Mouthing off like this without knowing the facts doesn't help your
>credibility any.  Most 16-bit VGA cards work just fine in 8-bit XT slots.
>That's right, the extension part of the card edge connector just sort of
>hangs there, but it works.

*SOME* do, at an incredible speed hit.  If you think SVGA is slow in an AT
environment, it's practically useless in an XT one.  I also might point out
that only standard VGA is usable on an XT.

>
>>
>>oh gee.. Let's
>>see you put an XGA card in your ISA system, what?  XGA is only produced for
>>Micro Channel systems? oh no.. let's see you put a 32 bit Bus Mastering SCSI
>>EISA controller into your ISA system... won't work?  gee.. 
>>
>
>There has to be *some* advantage to buying a high-end system, no?  You're
>right, you can't just take a 1983 XT and make it act like a 1992 EISA 486.

Exactly the point.  Everyone wants AGA to be put into their 500's and have it
work just as if it were a 32 bit 4000.  That's foolish.  I don't know of an 8
bit SCSI-II card for the PC's, yet people want the SCSI-II card to be
compatible with 2000's.  There isn't a 16 bit XT sound card on the market.

The 500 is as capable as it will ever be, based on it's architecture.

.--------------------------------------------------------------------------.
| UUCP: {amdahl!tcnet, crash}!orbit!pnet51!chucks | "I know he's come back |
| ARPA: crash!orbit!pnet51!chucks@nosc.mil        | from the dead, but do  |
| INET: chucks@pnet51.orb.mn.org                  | you really think he's  |
|-------------------------------------------------| moved back in?"        |
| Amiga programmer at large, employment options   | Lou Diamond Philips in |
| welcome, inquire within.                        | "The First Power".     |
`--------------------------------------------------------------------------'
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: "robert buonincontro" <robert.buonincontro@canrem.com>
Subject: flash a4000 price
Reply-To: "robert buonincontro" <robert.buonincontro@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: comp
Date: 13 Sep 92 14:58:54 EST


NW>He also said that the A4000 and A600 were the only computers to be
NW>announced at WOC. ...that those were the only ones he heard about.  The
NW>A4000 comes standard with an 040 and he had heard nothing of models
NW>being sold without a processor.

NW>...anyone got about $3000 they will lone me.  :)


 Sorry Neal I have $3000 I could lend you but I need it to pick up an Amiga
4000!

          robert.buonincontro&canrem.com
---
  DeLuxe 1.12 #8947  AMIGA : The Power To Be Creative!
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario, Canadas
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
From: ai065@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Thomas Hill)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: TO TONY POOLE (Should Atari Discussions Be Held Here?)
Date: 29 Sep 1992 21:47:41 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc10.ins.cwru.edu


   I just checked back into the group for some quick reading and just had to
write you a short note here. I find your constant need to knock others quite
disturbing. I would also kindly ask that you not distort the facts when using
other's names. Our "conversation", if you will remember, consisted of you
trying to play some form of God-like moderator role in past and present. I
seldom resort to names, but in this case I feel very justified in calling you
a complete snob- one who considers himself socially superior and condescends
to those he considers to be his inferiors. I would again kindly ask that you
stop looking down your nose at others. You do not own this group and thus you
should not constantly whine whenever your "high" standards are not met.
 
 I am an Amiga advocate, yet I so no reason why Atari users who wish to
discuss the Atari Falcon should not be allowed to post clean, civil messages
here. After all, this is comp.sys.amiga.advocacy, so discussions on this new
Falcon are a valuable meter to judge our new Amigas by. Sticking our heads in
the sand will not make the competition go away. Again, I am all for these
types of discussions in the right group and the proper way. Now, if you still
desire to knock others for whatever lacking personal reasons, I suggest you
carry it to a place like alt.egos.inflate. Thank you for your time.
 
 Tom
-- 
George Bush? He doesn't have a clue anymore. Bill Clinton? A slick smile and
a pandering style. Neither one is being realistic about what it is going to
take. The answer..........? ROSS FOR BOSS! VOTE FOR ROSS PEROT FOR PRESIDENT!
The Cryptozoology Information Network. Want on our Email mailing list? Amiga!
From: hjalmar@cbmswe.se.so.commodore.com (Peter Hjalmarsson Sweden)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Low End AGA Machine
Date: 1 Oct 92 13:14:51 GMT
Reply-To: hjalmar@cbmswe.se.so.commodore.com (Peter Hjalmarsson Sweden)
Organization: Commodore Sweden

In article <1992Sep30.175457.8235@lth.se> e91sg@efd.lth.se (Stefan Gimeson) writes:
>According to a german friend of mine and some german Amiga-magazine
>there will be an A1200 with -020, AGA, and a harddrive before 
>christmas (that's christmas 1992 for all you pessimists out there...)
>for about half the price of an A4000.

Are you sure it is not one of your intimate friends at Commodore Sweden
who told you? You know, the ones who had told you about the forthcoming
low-end Amiga with DSP, etc, coming out before chritmas... The machine
you would eat a a box of disks if it didn't come out before christmas.

If you just tell me who it was, so I can take him out of his misconceptions
right away. Because it couldn't be that you just pretended to have inside
information, just to look important?   Naaah, can't be that.

By the way, let me know how the disks I sent tasted. They may have had a
bitter taste, there was MS-DOS software on them.

To everyone else: Don't listen to rumours, especially when they are made up
by someone who is a liar.

[A .sig even bigger and uglier than I remembered deleted.]


-- 
============================================================\\======
Peter Hjalmarsson     \  hjalmar@cbmswe.se.so.commodore.com  \\  _
Amiga Support Engineer >-----------------------------------   \\//
Commodore Sweden      /  ...speaking for myself, not Commodore \/
From: root@rkamiga.UUCP (Rick Kelly)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Amiga for musicians (was Re: Falcon 030 vs. "next generation" Amiga)
Distribution: world
Date: 2 Oct 92 16:22:45 EST
Organization: Rick's Amiga

In article <54174@dime.cs.umass.edu> barrett@snoopy.cs.umass.edu (Daniel Barrett) writes:
>In article <1ab50gINNeuj@uwm.edu> gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block) writes:
>>Some of the great
>>stuff by Blue Ribbon SoftWorks (did they change their name to or from
>>that?) like Bars & Pipes Pro, well known stuff like Dr. T's stuff,
>>available editors, and some of the advanced SunRize boards are some of
>>the most powerful things available for ANY computer system.
>
>	Ummm... no way.  One of the Amiga's weakest areas is MIDI and
>music.  No Amiga MIDI package compares to the Mac's Performer or Vision.
>(B&P Pro is good only if you like the "pipes" metaphor.)  There are NO
>professional quality Amiga scoring/notation programs.  (Dr.  T's "Copyist
>Professional" is NOT pro quality, due to several terrible design flaws.)
>Digidesign has a several-year headstart over any Amiga company in digital
>audio processing.  Heck, the Mac already has several integrated MIDI +
>direct digital recording packages.
>
>	As you all know, I think the Amiga is a fabulous computer.  But as
>an electronic/computer musician for the past 13 years, I definitely believe
>that the Amiga suffers in comparison to other music platforms.  And it's a
>damn shame, too.

True.  My brother in law, who scores soundtracks for movies out in LA, swears
by the software available for the Mac.  He never considered the Amiga or the
Atari.

--
Rick Kelly		Rick's Amiga		Framingham, Mass.

		think!unixland!rmkhome!rkamiga!root

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy