HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: azhar@duke.cs.duke.edu (D. Salman [Quintessential] Azhar)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam,soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.iranian,soc.culture.arabic,soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna,soc.culture.indian
Subject: Intellectualisation of Reality and Realization of Intellectualism
Summary: This is motivated in part by recent discussion promoting knowledge and understanding
Date: 22 Nov 92 21:23:26 GMT
Followup-To: soc.religion.islam
Organization: Duke University Computer Science Dept.; Durham, N.C.

In article <1eoftsINNet9@life.ai.mit.edu> nabeel@sce.carleton.ca (Nabeel Ghuzlaan) writes:
>In <722385590@flounder.cs.duke.edu> azhar@duke.cs.duke.edu (D. Salman [Quintessential] Azhar) writes:
>" men and women should seek understanding of the material and spritual world.

>   Also, the emphasis in Islam is on the spiritual knowledge. Material
>knowledge has no significance in Islam unless it serves the spiritual
>aspect and the cause of our existance.


	   I thought I could resist this temptation to break away from
working on minimizing trading costs in capital markets (my research),
but I must say something here.

	   I see among us, great Islamic scholars who master the
intellectual aspects of Islam (theology, divinity, etc.), and I also
see great islmaic scholars that specialize in the practical aspects of
religion (e.g. procedural issues concerning basic worship). Somewhere,
along the way we have lost the link between intellectualization of
reality and the realization of intellectualism. It says in the
Preservered Book:

(69:1-3)
 1. The sure reality!
 2. What is the sure reality?
 3. And what will make you realize what the sure reality is?

	   Having initiated a discussion on encouraging intellectual
pursuit, we must be aware of the consequences of detaching the
intellectual aspects from realistic aspect. For, if we do that, we
would surely experience terrible calamity [Quran 101:1-3]
 1. The terrible calamity!
 2. What is the terrible calamity!
 3. And what will make you comprehend what the terrible calamity is?

   Salman [By the (steeds) that run with panting breath
           And, strike sparks of fire, 
           And, push home the charge in the morning,
           And, raise the dust in clouds the while,
           And, penetrate forthwith into the midst en masse; 
           Most surely man is ungrateful to his Lord.
           And most surely to that he is a witness himself (100:1-7)] Azhar


-- 
 I must, with emotional fire, burn or illume myself
 I must, with the heat of passion, melt or sublime myself
 I must, in flood of tears, drown or cleanse myself
 I must! I must! I must! For my people and myself -- D. Salman [Q] Azhar
From: ekrem@vlsivie.tuwien.ac.at (Ekrem Saban)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Re: Budhisim / Islam, TRAPPED GIRL
Date: 16 Nov 92 23:03:03 GMT
Organization: Technical University of Vienna

In article <1d7p8uINNcgn@aludra.usc.edu> jodar@chaph.usc.edu (Nicholas Jodar) writes:
[...]

   >What is her status? Will she be punished in case she decides
   >to change religion? What is her punishment? Is it death? 

   No.

   If a person becomes apostate, (turns away from Islam), they are
   no longer a member of Islamic society.  In effect, they have cut
   themselves off from their family.  Other than this, and the fact
   that they will no longer recieve any help from Allah (SWT), (and
   will go to Hell), there is no direct punishment in this life. 
   (Only Allah (SWT) can punish people for spurning His Grace and
   Mercy to them.)

   HOWEVER, if a person turns apostate THREE TIMES, it is the duty
   of all muslims to kill them on sight, as they are renegade. 
   (ie.  There is no longer any possibility that they will revert 
   to Islam.)
[..]

   >I can tell you that in BANGLADESH she is not allowed
   >to convert. 

   Regardless of what the law is in Bangladesh, the reality is that
   there is no compulsion in religion.

Are you very sure that turning <= 3x from Islam does not result in the
death penalty in the Shariah? Please answer if you have clear proofs.

"No compulsion in religion" is the rule for NON-MUSLIMS, not for those
who ARE Muslims, no matter how the person become Muslim: there is no
difference between Muslims- there are no categories between them,
except Takwaa (fear of Allah).

   >How is this case treated in various law in different ISLAMIC 
   >country. 

   There are currently no 'Islamic Countries.'  Not a single one of
   them has an Islamic Government, nor do they enforce the Shariat.

Oh, there are some countries who ARE applying at least parts of it.
For instance The Islamic Republic of Iran, Saudi Arabia, Sudan.

   >Only way she can marry is he converts Voluntarily!!!

   That would certainly be the best option....  Both for him and for
   her.
[...]
   >
   >1) She didnot convert to Islam, She was born in it.

   Everybody is born into Islam.  Some of us are simply taught 
   something else while growing up.

   >2) She has no way in which she can become anon-muslim.

   According to Islam, you simply make the decision to abandon the 
   faith.

I doubt that, brother.

--
_____ ___ _________________________________________________________ _ ______
  /|  |    	A. Ekrem SABAN	        / 	Technische Universitat Wien
 /_|_ |_  ekrem@vlsivie.tuwien.ac.at /Inst.f.Techn.Informatik, VLSI-Design
/  |    | "Not only is UNIX dead, /Tel:(43-1)58801/8147,/3384(Mo.17-19 CET)
|  |__ _| it's starting to smell really bad." Rob Pike /Fax:(43-1)569697
From: spebcg@thor.cf.ac.uk (Mr B G Cetiner 92)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Re: What is oldest copy of Qur'an in existence?
Keywords: oldest, copy, Qur'an
Date: 21 Nov 92 21:53:36 GMT
Organization: University of Wales College at Cardiff


Hi,
I am not sure if one of the copies of Qur'an in Topkapi Museum in
Istanbul (Turkiye) is one of the copies you have mentioned. But one
of the Qur'an copies over  there I know is the copy which Hz.Othman (RA)
had been reading before he was killed. There is still blood stains on
that copy. I haven't got any information about the other copies in
Topkapi.

Best wishes

Beytullah
From: emfar@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Anak Jati Terengganu)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Mosques in Indianapolis
Date: 15 Nov 1992 23:22 PDT
Organization: California Institute of Technology
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: romeo.caltech.edu
Originator: Mughal@Romeo.Caltech.Edu (Asim Mughal -Moderator)
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    


Could anyone please e-mail me the address or phone #  for any mosque in 
Indianapolis, IN. If possible a mosque that is in or close to the downtown.

Thank you.

Please e-mail to emfar@mentor.cc.purdue.edu
From: jodar@chaph.usc.edu (Nicholas Jodar)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Re: Islamic Bookstore
Summary: There are several....
Keywords: Bookstores
Date: 21 Nov 92 16:50:13 GMT
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: spiff.gnu.ai.mit.edu
Originator: gwydion@spiff.gnu.ai.mit.edu

Assalamu Alaikum....

In article <1ejldqINNkv5@life.ai.mit.edu> ahh@shoshin.Corp.Sun.COM writes:

>This may be a FAQ, but...
>
>Does any one know of a Islamic bookstore in the San Francisco Bay area?

If my memory is correct, there are several in the area.  One of
them is the bookstore inside Masjid Al-Islam, in Oakland.  They
have the 'largest selection of Islamic literature in the S.F. Bay
Area.'

The Masjid is located at:

8210 McArthur Blvd.
Oakland, CA  94605
(510) 638-9541

Other bookstores may be found in the yellow pages or by calling
the local masjids.

-AQ
From: gt0009b@prism.gatech.edu (rahim)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Quran and immortality
Date: 18 Nov 1992 23:53:44 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology
Reply-To: gt0009b@prism.gatech.edu (rahim)
NNTP-Posting-Host: spiff.gnu.ai.mit.edu
Status: RO
Originator: gwydion@spiff.gnu.ai.mit.edu



I want to know what references the Quran makes to the immortality
of human beings?  Exact verses will be much appreciated.

rahim
-- 
"We do not mourn the loss of those who die fulfilling their destinies."
                                                  -The Forestmaster
                                        _Dragons of Autumn Twilight_
From: ghbr@fmg.bt.co.uk (Hossein Bagherzadeh Rafsanjani)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Re: It Is High Time to Stop Under-Utilizing Half of Muslim Population
Followup-To: soc.religion.islam
Date: 24 Nov 1992 00:29:23 GMT
Organization: British Telecom
Reply-To: ghbr@fmg.bt.co.uk (Hossein Bagherzadeh Rafsanjani)
NNTP-Posting-Host: wookumz.gnu.ai.mit.edu
Originator: gwydion@wookumz.gnu.ai.mit.edu

In article <722385590@flounder.cs.duke.edu> azhar@duke.cs.duke.edu (D. Salman [Quintessential] Azhar) writes:

	      It is high time to stop under-utilizing half of muslim
> population. It is high time that we start encouraging muslim women to
> pursue education and seek scholarship. There are a plethora of muslims
> whoi firmly believe that the education of women is not emphasized in
> Islam. On the contrary, the thirst for knowledge, and the pursuit of
> scholarship is obligatory for muslim men and women. The Quran (96:1)
> says "Read in the name of your Lord Who created." The Prophet was
> quotes to have said: "Acquisition of knowledge is obligatory for every
> muslim, male and female."

I would go much further and say: It is high time we stopped making
rules against a group of people on the grounds of their race, colour,
sex, religion, beliefs etc be in the name of God, religion or any
other supreme being/text whatever.

-hossein

Xref: sparky soc.religion.islam:1916 soc.culture.pakistan:16989 soc.culture.arabic:5042
From: khan@twg.com (Sharaz Khan)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: MONITOR:(alt.sect.ahmadiyya)"Welcome to alt.sect.ahmadiyya"
Date: 15 Nov 1992 23:48 PDT
Organization: California Institute of Technology
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: romeo.caltech.edu
Originator: Mughal@Romeo.Caltech.Edu (Asim Mughal -Moderator)
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 92 10:40:00 EST
From: Azeem Ahmad <ahmada@cherry.fiu.edu>
Message-Id: <9211031540.AA02314@cherry.fiu.edu>
To: khan@TWG.COM
Subject: Monitoring of alt.sect.ahmadiyya

assalAm-o-alaikum

I found the following article in alt.sect.ahmadiyya. Though it does not contain
any misinformation about Islam, it does question its validity.

I feel I am not qualified enough to answer his querry in a really convincing
manner.

I hope someone could give it a better try.

WassalAm

Azeem

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Article 21 in alt.sect.ahmadiyya:
From: sa114984@longs.lance.colostate.edu (Steven Arnold)
Subject: Re: welcome to  ALT.SECT.AHMADIYYA (newsgroup intro)
Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1992 03:35:22 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523

With so many religions to choose from, why should I want to be Islamic?
No doubt the immediate answer is "because Islam is correct and the others
are not."  But I suspect you can't prove that statement any more than the
Christians or Jews or Mormons can.  All the religions, it seems to me, require
faith without proof.  If it's that simple, why should I place my faith in the
Islamic version of things?  My ancestors for centuries have been Christians;
before that, they believed in some other religion,no doubt containing a pantheon
og gods and goddesses forgotton by now in history.  Christianity, at least, has
the benefit of having been believed by my father, garndfather and so on for many
generations; so I ask the question again: what is it about Islam which should
compel me to convert?

If the Islamic priests could split the oceans, heal the sick, raise the
dead, I would have no choice but to believe. But I have never seen such a thing.
Do the devotees of this sect of Islam claim to have been granted such miraculous
powers by Allah?  Do they prophecy?  Do they have visions?  Do they speak in
other tongues by the power of Allah?

Steve
From: f43703a@nucc.cc.nagoya-u.ac.jp (SUPRATIC GUPTA)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: <none provided> Inter-religious marriages?
Date: 16 Nov 92 23:59:39 GMT

Dear reader,
   I got this letter from a friend. Please 
read on:


> Thannk you for responding. Sorry for asking you
> some more personal questions. Many people are
> of the opinion that inter-religious marriages
> don't work. Can you tell us how you really doing.
> I am sure that you can really enlighten us of
> this side of the story.
> 
> with regards
> SUPRSTIC GUPTA
> Please if you don't mind, please answer in public and to
> me directly also.
> Thanks
> 

inter-religious marriages between people
who strongly & blindly believe in some
religious ideas will not be possible, I think.
For them to work, both the parties need to be
a litlle bit more enlightened.  Of course, if
both are athiests, then there is no problem.

The main problem comes in the issue of children.
Which religion should the children follow.
There are many ways in which this is handled.
I have personally seen many inter-religious
marriages, where children follow one or the
other religion of their parents.  The other
parent rationalizes that religion is a presonal
thing and so it is ok.  I have heard of both
parents sticking to their guns and finally
breaking up also.

In my case, I think that if one truly
understands what 'vEdAnta' is, then there should
be no problem with practiced religion, whatever
it is.  My wife is a believer sans reason, but
it worked out fine.

I am not yet ready to post this.  I was only
married last month.  I think I need to give it
some time.  However, you can post it, without
attibuting my name or any other personal
information.  I am also willing to cooperate
with answering any other queries that might 
arise from the post, via e-mail to you.

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

If you have any question, please write in public 
or email to me.

with regards
SUPRATIC GUPTA
Xref: sparky soc.religion.islam:1932 soc.culture.pakistan:17010 soc.culture.iranian:10202 soc.culture.arabic:5056 soc.culture.bangladesh:6160 soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna:587 soc.culture.indian:37881
From: azhar@duke.cs.duke.edu (D. Salman [Quintessential] Azhar)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam,soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.iranian,soc.culture.arabic,soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna,soc.culture.indian
Subject: It Is High Time to Stop Under-Utilizing Half of Muslim Population
Date: 21 Nov 92 22:39:51 GMT
Followup-To: soc.religion.islam
Organization: Duke University Computer Science Dept.; Durham, N.C.


	   It is high time to stop under-utilizing half of muslim
population. It is high time that we start encouraging muslim women to
pursue education and seek scholarship. There are a plethora of muslims
whoi firmly believe that the education of women is not emphasized in
Islam. On the contrary, the thirst for knowledge, and the pursuit of
scholarship is obligatory for muslim men and women. The Quran (96:1)
says "Read in the name of your Lord Who created." The Prophet was
quotes to have said: "Acquisition of knowledge is obligatory for every
muslim, male and female."

	   The message of Islam, my friends, is clearly that both men and
women should seek understanding of the material and spritual world.
Why, then, do we discourage muslim women from this pursuit. After all
women constitute (the more important) half of our population (since
their influence in raising the progeny exceeds that of men).

	   Salman [just some food for thought] Azhar


-- 
 I must, with emotional fire, burn or illume myself
 I must, with the heat of passion, melt or sublime myself
 I must, in flood of tears, drown or cleanse myself
 I must! I must! I must! For my people and myself -- D. Salman [Q] Azhar
From: arif@stat.fsu.edu (Arif Zaman)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Fajr/Isha times 15 vs 18 degrees.
Date: 15 Nov 1992 23:59 PDT
Organization: California Institute of Technology
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: romeo.caltech.edu
Originator: Mughal@Romeo.Caltech.Edu (Asim Mughal -Moderator)
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    



The times for the beginning of the dawn prayer (Fajr salat)
as published in the tables provided by MSA is taken to be
when the sun is 15 degrees below the horizon. This is explained
in some 10-15 year old book with a title like "Prayer schedules
for North America", disseminated by the MSA. I saw this book
some years ago, so I cna't recall it exactly. The explanation
states that in light of recent research by Maulana Ludhianvi
(if I remember the name correctly) the ancient scholars (he
mentions two of them by name) took this 15 degrees to be the
proper angle for the dawn (fajr) and night (isha) prayers, and
that this is documented in thier works. The problem was that
in the later days muslims got confused by the european
astonomers who called 18 degrees the astronomical twilight,
and 12 degrees the civil twilight, and tabluated these values
only. The original work by Maulana Ludhianvi was in Pakistan
in the Urdu language.

On the other hand the entire rest of the Muslim world did and
still does continue to use the 18 degree measure (with very
minor variations). Even in Pakistan, this discovery created
some confusion for one Ramadan, but then a panel of scholars
(ulema), astronomers and scientists were convened to look into
this issue. They examined the evidence provided by the Maulana.
They also determined the times of salat by observations, using
the discriptions of the sky as found in the Hadith, and finally
settled by issuing a fatwa that 18 degrees is indeed correct.
I saw a copy of the fatwa, which is once again in Urdu.

My question is: Is the MSA aware of this fatwa? Have they truly
examined both sides of the issue, or are they coninuing on a
fifteen year old "error" simply because they haven't re-examined
it since then?

My purpose in bringing this issue here (rather than directly to
the MSA) is that there is a wide readership here. I have all my
information from memory. Could someone correct me where I have
gone wrong. Provide more details, exact quotes, translations of
fatwa, photocopies of originals, etc... . This would provide a
more complete case which could be submitted to the MSA fatwa
committee, or some such body to decide. I would be glad to here
any response from the MSA about this issue as well.
From: khan@TWG.COM (echo **********************************************************)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Monitor Coordinator - MODERATOR (Quran and immortality)
Date: 21 Nov 92 21:39:36 GMT

In <1eel28INN135@life.ai.mit.edu> gt0009b@prism.gatech.edu (rahim) writes:

>I want to know what references the Quran makes to the immortality
>of human beings?  Exact verses will be much appreciated.

There are references to the opposite, and there are many of them, for
example:

21:35
" Every soul shall taste of death, and We try you with evil and good for 
a testing, then to Us you shall be returned."

55:26
" All that (dwells) upon it (the earth) is perishing. "

>rahim
>-- 
>"We do not mourn the loss of those who die fulfilling their destinies."
>                                                  -The Forestmaster
>                                        _Dragons of Autumn Twilight_

Ahmed I El-Habbash
From: "OBEID, JIHAD" <j_obeid@pavo.concordia.ca>
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Seminar on Bosnia
Date: 18 Nov 1992 23:57:02 GMT
Organization: Concordia University
Reply-To: "OBEID, JIHAD" <j_obeid@pavo.concordia.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: spiff.gnu.ai.mit.edu
Originator: gwydion@spiff.gnu.ai.mit.edu

In The Name of Allah, The Merciful, The Compassionate.

SEMINAR & VIDEO PRESENTATION ON
####     ##     ##    #  #   ###     ##
 #  #   #  #   #  #   ## #    #     #  #
 #  #   #  #   #      # ##    #     #  #
 ###    #  #    ##    #  #    #     ####
 #  #   #  #      #   #  #    #     #  #
 #  #   #  #   #  #   #  #    #     #  #
####     ##     ##    #  #   ###    #  #

Speakers:  Zafar Bangash, Editor of "Crescent International"

	       A Bosnian Eyewitness to the massacres.

		Followed by a panel discussion.

Time    :  6:30 - 9:30 pm
Date    :  Friday the 20th, November, 1992.
Place   :  Concordia University - 1455 De Maisonneuve O.
		Room H-937, 9th floor.

Organized by :  Students' Association For Muslim Awareness(SAMA)
in collaboration with : The Italian Students' Association (I.S.A.)
				of Concordia University.
"Al-Etehad atoulabi lel-tawe'yh El-esslamieh"


From: j_obeid@pavo.concordia.ca (OBEID, JIHAD)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Bosnia, Seminar & Video Presentation
Date: 14 Nov 1992 01:29 -0500
Distribution: world
Keywords:
From: trh@jack.sns.com (Al Trh)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: >>> FAMINE <<< ISLAMIC RELIEF - SOMALIA APEAL
Date: 21 Nov 1992 15:39:19 GMT
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
Reply-To: trh@jack.sns.com (Al Trh)
NNTP-Posting-Host: wookumz.gnu.ai.mit.edu
Originator: gwydion@wookumz.gnu.ai.mit.edu

 ISLAMIC RELIEF - SOMALIA APEAL
 
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 Tel: + 021 440 3114/446 4502
 
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 Make all cheques payable to: Islamic Relief/Somalia
 
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 PLEASE HELP DON'T LET THEM DIE
             _
 |-| /-\ |_ |_| |<
From: wmashud@diana.cair.du.edu (WIDJAJA S. MASHUD)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Qur'an Program for the Macintosh??
Date: 16 Nov 92 19:34:00 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology
NNTP-Posting-Host: romeo.caltech.edu
Originator: Mughal@Romeo.Caltech.Edu (Asim Mughal -Moderator)
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41


I think the subject says it all.  I am looking for a program
that contain Qur'anic verses that can be searched by
words, etc. fro the Macintosh computer.  Is there such a
thing and if there is where can I get/buy it?

Thanks in advance,

Widjaja Mashud
From: rached@blanc.eng.ohio-state.edu (rached)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: MONITOR: soc.culture.arabic
Date: 15 Nov 1992 23:32 PDT
Organization: California Institute of Technology
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: romeo.caltech.edu
Originator: Mughal@Romeo.Caltech.Edu (Asim Mughal -Moderator)
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    




]Article: 7512 of soc.culture.arabic
]From: faris@sarcasm.trl.OZ.AU (Aziz Faris)
]Subject: Re: SOC.RELIGION."ISLAM".AHMADIA
]Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1992 02:32:38 GMT

In article <1992Oct28.191034.9403@dsg.cs.tcd.ie>, ahmed@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Ahmed El-Habbash) writes:
|> As a side talk:
|> 
|> If you think Islam is only some rites, then you mean something else.
|> 
|> Islam is not just a religion, it is DEEN, which means law. 
|> 
|> Ahmed

Since when did the arabic word Deen (Religion) mean Law?. Also does this
mean that Judaism and Christianity are not Deens?. from where you are
writing (heart of Catholic country) many people can get very upset.

A.Faris