HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
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Date:         Wed, 6 Jan 1993 16:37:05 MET
From:         Grzegorz Albinowski <caius@II.UJ.EDU.PL>
Subject: Re: why gold - money qualities
Comments: To: POLITICS@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu
              at Jan 6, 93 3:02 am

Brandon Magee pisze:
>>
>>|Gold is not a perfect money, but is still better than gov't controlled money.
>>
>>         But, If gold is used as a "money", isn't it inherently
>> government controlled?

The government cannot produce or destroy huge quantities of gold very quickly
It can do so to the paper money (by manipulating interest rates, reserve
requirements and so called "open market operations") .

Thus, fluctuations of prices in gold currency are rather mild, while the paper
money goes up and down in a volatile way.

Another advantage: under gold standard budget deficit is clearly a fraud,
and paper money changes can be easily justified by the "economic" theories.

Paper money manipulations can result in:

- Never-ending inflation: a hiden tax to finance excessive budget spending

- Sudden changes in money supply producing periods of overproduction ( high
  inflation) interrupted by recessions (low inflation)


>> Doesn't [money] have to be [controlled by government]?

No, it doesn't. In the same way bananas are produced, transported and
distributed to the consummers without government supervision.

The only duty of gov't is to prevent fraudulent practices. If you feel you
have been robbed, you go to the court.

Caius
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Date:         Mon, 4 Jan 1993 16:42:28 +0100
From:         BADERTINOVS%NEWS@ADMINB.RFERL.ORG
Subject:      Re: Uncl: Re: Uncl: Re: Uncl: re: Colorado boycott
Comments: To: POLITICS@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

From Robert
>True. But, like it or not, track the history of the infection and you'll
>find homosexuality.

From Sam
I thought AIDS originated in Africa among heterosexuals. It started
spreading among gays only in Europe and North America. But in Africa,
from where the emidemic comes from, most of the victims are heterosehual.
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Date:         Tue, 12 Jan 1993 11:07:04 -0500
From:         Andrew Allen <E7L8ALL@TOWSONVX.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: AA

>        But to say that since the laws have worked somewhat, that we shouldn't
>try something new is a bit short sighted.
>        Why lock into results that have not reached equality?

Fine, where's your plan?

>Brett'

-other Andy
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Date:         Wed, 6 Jan 1993 15:00:39 EST
From:         Evelyn Duncan <R3EJD@AKRONVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Cross controversy?

On Wed, 6 Jan 1993 14:54:00 EST Travis Kidd said:
>How is putting up a cross considered hate speech?

It depends upon the group putting it up; I doubt that if the Salvation
Army put up a cross, the action would be considered hate speech.

>-Travis

Evelyn
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Date:         Thu, 7 Jan 1993 14:44:20 EST
From:         Mike Fessler <MIKEF@BROWNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Original intent and the part of religion in American government

This is excerpted from a posting by elf@halcyon.com to alt.politics.sex:

   "AS THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT IN ANY SENSE FOUNDED ON THE
CHRISTIAN RELIGION, as it has in itself no enmity with the laws,
religion, or tranquility of Islam, and as the said states have never
entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mohammadean nation
it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious
opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing
between the two countries."

   - The Treaty of Tripoli
     Approved for Ratification by The Congress of the United States
     October 27, 1796
     Signed into Law by President John Adams
     November 4, 1796
     In Force As Law,
     January 3, 1797

(emphasis added)
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Date:         Wed, 6 Jan 1993 14:01:59 -0400
From:         The Integral Differential <DEMON@DESIRE.WRIGHT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: War in Europe
Comments: To: POLITICS@OHSTVMA.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU

>>
>It was an almost verbatim dissertation about the "situation" in Serbia.
>But it also included some cool maps!
>
>Jonathan

        Sorry I missed it, I love maps!

        I usually don't watch M/L because it tends to degenerate into a contest
between experts as to who is the most/best.  Of course, that happens with any
news program with more than one expert speaker :).

        Man I miss cable. :(

        Ob. Politics:  CM Braun is at it again.  Her staff hasn't been paid,
she hadn't been seated as a Senator yet, but she flew herself, her son, and her
boyfriend (aka her campaign manager, the one accused of sexual harassment)
first class to South Africa, stayed there a month, then first class back the US
via London and the Concorde.
        Rush Limbaugh is certainly entertaining :).  He estimates her deficit
financing for the trip at over $50k.

        So where does a cook county recorder, who just payed back $28k to the
welfare system, and who only makes $50k a year, get the money for a first
class, month long trip to SA?

        Her campaign is $500k in debt, also.

        And on the first day of the new congress, the Dems try to pack the
House with five more Dem. votes.  In the words of one Rep. Rep., "I think our
priorities are wrong."

        Never mind the deficit, the budget, Europe or Africa, there's a House
to be packed!

Brett'
(Looking forward to the next four years more than I thought I would :)
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Date:         Wed, 6 Jan 1993 15:35:00 EST
From:         linda <SABOE@VUVAXCOM.BITNET>
Subject: RE: Uncl: Re: Uncl: ActUp/RI joins Colorado Boycott

>ask for _Dr. Strangelove_.  View it.  Report back to us.

ok.

>(Although I guess you've probably seen it, and didn't recognize the obscure
>references!).

no tony, i've never seen more than snatches of it....the only times i've tried
to watch a peter sellers movie (david clem told me it was peter sellers) was
with my mom and sister. my mom would start laughing as soon as she saw his name
in the opening credits and couldn't stop til it was over (or she had to leave
for the bathroom). my sister and i would taunt her with bad imitations of him
saying "a room for my minkey" and stuff like that.

watching my mom laugh was funnier than any movie. i miss her laugh.

>Nevertheless, enjoy!


>(damn - this right arm keeps swinging up! can't control the darn 7^&*u9!)

hey, i bet that's from the movie....right???

linda
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Date:         Wed, 6 Jan 1993 14:40:28 PST
From:         Jonathan Fisher <jfisher@NETXWEST.COM>
Subject:      Re: Braun
Comments: To: POLITICS@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

Brett' says...

>         I usually don't watch M/L because it tends to degenerate into a
 contest
> between experts as to who is the most/best.  Of course, that happens with any
> news program with more than one expert speaker :).
True enough.
>
>         Man I miss cable. :(
You need cable to get your local public access channel?  Actually, I listen
to ML on the radio at work and then if it's interesting I get home in
just enough time to catch it on the TV.
>
>         Ob. Politics:  CM Braun is at it again.
>         Rush Limbaugh is certainly entertaining :).  He estimates her deficit
> financing for the trip at over $50k.
Funny, I listened to Rush today! (I never listen to him, but today I was
just bored).  His numbers included her new jeep, which she probably financed.
But in any event, even though Rush assured his audience that he was being
more than fair, my opinion is that his numbers were high.
>
>         So where does a cook county recorder, who just payed back $28k to the
> welfare system, and who only makes $50k a year, get the money for a first
> class, month long trip to SA?
But _it_ is interesting that she could afford such a trip.  Maybe
she saved for it.  Maybe she took it on credit.  Unless someone (Rush?) is
alleging that she obtained money for it illegally, I don't care how
she got it.  Wonder why Rush isn't worrying about any of Dornan's travels? :-)
BTW Brett', are you in the least bit uncomfortable about Rush's theme song
for Braun?  He is playing the theme song from "The Jefferson's", i.e.
"We are moving on up...to the top.  We finally got a piece of the pie..."?
I don't know, his songs always bother me, but this one bothers me more than
most.
>
>         Her campaign is $500k in debt, also.
This doesn't really have any relevance to her trip.  Does it?
>
>         And on the first day of the new congress, the Dems try to pack the
> House with five more Dem. votes.  In the words of one Rep. Rep., "I think our
> priorities are wrong."
You won't find me defending Foley's actions.  Although the votes are for
all but the FINAL vote.  Further, as someone on NPR said, it's hard to imagine
Guam voting with the Democratic majority.  Isn't it?
>
>         Never mind the deficit, the budget, Europe or Africa, there's a House
> to be packed!
>
> Brett'
> (Looking forward to the next four years more than I thought I would :)
>
This actually was the real reason why I thought that Limbaugh's show was
much more secure under a Democratic president than under Bush's re-election!
He's got so much more to complain about and so many more people will only
have Rush's show to commiserate with!

Jonathan
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Thu, 7 Jan 1993 13:56:00 EDT
From:         CLARK@EVMSVMS.BITNET
Subject: Re: school daze

David Clem says:

>Bush's voucher plan was a good start but since public education
>is a highly local "service" it doesn't go far enough.  I would like to have
>some way of getting a local tax refund based on average per-pupil expense,
>if I don't send my kid to public school. It doesn't have to be 100% - I'd
>settle for 70-90% :-).
>
>- David

Sorry, but this argument has been used, abused, and trounced during the
early 80's "tuition tax credit" fiasco, sponsored by the RC Church (no, not
the Cola).

The taxes we pay to provide public schools for our children have nothing to do
with where we send our kids.

If I take your argument further, then I should be entitled to a FULL refund -
since I have NO kids, in any school!

And parents whose kids have graduated - they too should receive a full refund
of their school taxes!

I just doesn't work that way.  The society as a whole antes up for education,
regardless of what they _personally_ receive from it.

Everyone should pay, kids or not; everyone should have a say, kids or not.


-T.
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Date:         Tue, 5 Jan 1993 07:24:52 EST
From:         jc-s <GE777009@BROWNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      colorado/act up ri

Last night the RI Coallition of Act Up rallied down
town to protest the enactment of Amendment #2.

The Coallition is going to the State House to urge
the lawmakers to not send any of their staff to
Colorado for business meetings.  Don't know just how
much business RI does with Colorado, however.

Looked like a healthy crowd, maybe Julie know's
more about what happened.  Course, the news station
just sent a camera down, no reporter.  And that station
is located only a block away from the rally site.

go figger.

Jenna
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Date:         Mon, 11 Jan 1993 10:39:21 EST
From:         Jamie <PL436000@BROWNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Jamie on commercial speech

>From:         Jimmy -Jimbo- Wales <jwales@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU>

>Jamie, do you support the right of sellers of products to make
>true claims about the benefits of those products?

Oh, yes, very much.

More truth, more truth!

Jamie
From: DEMON@DESIRE.WRIGHT.EDU (The Integral Differential)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Subject: Re: Kevorkian Sets Sights on Ohio
Date: 7 Jan 93 17:28:44 GMT
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>
>Who cares?  A lot of people here care:  those of us who care about life
>and hate to see it thrown away.
>
>Evelyn Duncan

        These people *want* to die.

        Why should we stop them?  If they are lucid, and it's their desire, we
have no right to stand in their way.

Brett'
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Date:         Thu, 7 Jan 1993 12:28:00 EST
From:         "Peter J. Schledorn" <UNCPJS@UNC.OIT.UNC.EDU>
Subject: Re: The right to discriminate, the privilege to drive...
Comments: To: Forum for the Discussion of Politics <POLITICS@UCF1VM.CC.UCF.EDU>

This is referring to Brett's claim that anti-discrimination laws can
be used to _limit_ minority hiring:

>         You're arguing apples and oranges.  To meet EEOC guidelines there have
> to be some minorities.  The quesiton is: how many?  Is the government really
> letting employers use the law to limit minority employement?

No.  If you can find a verifiable case I'd love to hear about it.  But,
since some of the criteria that agencies use in judging hiring practices
include the makeup of the local population, the makeup of the employee
market for that particular job (which may be local, regional or
national), and the makeup of the applicant pool, I wouldn't place a bet
on any answer other than "No."

Best,
Peter

> Brett'
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Date:         Thu, 7 Jan 1993 14:14:58 EST
From:         Evelyn Duncan <R3EJD@AKRONVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Kevorkian Sets Sights on Ohio
              7 Jan 1993 10:38:47 PST from <jfisher@NETXWEST.COM>

On Thu, 7 Jan 1993 10:38:47 PST Jonathan Fisher said:
>
>Who's throwing it away?

The people who are killing themselves are throwing away the most precious
thing they have.  But, that is their choice, I guess.  Just don't expect
the people around them to be happy about it.
>
>Jonathan

Evelyn
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Date:         Mon, 4 Jan 1993 17:00:57 EST
From:         Jamie <PL436000@BROWNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Discrimination of various kinds

Good heavens.
Evelyn, pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

>From:         Travis Kidd <TKIDD@CLEMSON.BITNET>

>> Jimbo,
>>   Does infinity count as a number, or do you consider it a concept.
>>
>> Evelyn

>Infinity is a number. It is equal to k/0, k is a constant not equal to
>zero (0/0 is meaningless--can be anything, including infinity--must use
>limits.)

There is no number equal to k/0 for more than one k.

"Infinity" is not lucidly thought of as the name of a number.

However, there are some infinite numbers.
And there are different kinds.

Your Logic Czar explained this a while ago.

I leave limits to Jimbo or KAT. My logic knows no limits.

>a(oo) + b = oo; a, b not equal to -oo

This is not too horribly far from a truth.

>In many cases, oo shares an apparent equality with -oo because
>        1  -1   -1
>        - x - =  -
>        0  -1    0
>This is most apparent in tan pi/2 = +/- oo.
>The only counterexample is 3^oo is not equal to 3^(-oo).

A Travisty of mathematics.

Jamie

(If any of you is taught that there is one number which is equal
to k/0 and also to (k+1)/0, inquire into the possibility of
a tuition refund.)
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Date:         Mon, 11 Jan 1993 14:10:00 EST
From:         David Clem <$GET@PCCJES2.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Uncl: re: school daze

KAT:

>>................. kids -- needs is estimating.  Yes!, estimating.
>>Estimating makes kids THINK.  Doing endless and mindless divisions
>>and multiplications does not.  What he needs is "word problems."

Robert:

> Since I posted all the entries in my checkbook based on estimates, I
> estimate that my checking account has a $100.00 balance.  Do you think
> the bank uses the same method of estimating my balance?

No, I doubt that the bank estimates at all.

Maybe one of the Outcomes of the math class is to know when to estimate
and when to calculate exactly :-).

.examples deleted.  (a good basis for a Monty Python skit, though)

- David

David Clem      $get@pccjes2.bitnet
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Date:         Tue, 12 Jan 1993 16:38:00 EST
From:         "Peter J. Schledorn" <UNCPJS@UNC.OIT.UNC.EDU>
Subject:      Sigh
Comments: To: Forum for the Discussion of Politics <POLITICS@UCF1VM.CC.UCF.EDU>

Do I really have to remind Brett that government invented neither
slavery nor segregation?

>         No.  It failed by keeping slavery around for a few centuries (note
> we're talking about government in general, and not just the good 'ol USA).

Apparently so.

Brett's prescription:

> >>        Conclusion: quit relying on government.  Don't cede power to the
> >>government on this issue in the first place.

Slave owners *wanted* government to support slavery--it increased their
security.  Segregationists wanted government-enforced segregation (but
we shouldn't forget that most segregation wasn't government-enforced,
merely government-permitted).

This was not government taking power.  It was government SERVING power.

> >>        How about this:
> >>
> >>        "No organization, public, private or governmental has the power to s
> >>terms of or limits upon contractual agreements between consenting adults."
> >
> >Tried it. Didn't work.
>
>         When?

Oh, long before your day, young'un.  :-)

Jamie and I aren't your researchers, you know  :-).

This sounds like a job for the History Czar!

>         I konw very well what AA both is supposed to be and what it is in
> reality.

Too bad that konwing does not equal knowing :-).

> >Readers might speculate on whether they (Bush and Brett)
> >really don't even understand the difference, or whether they do
> >but prefer to pretend that the two are identical.
> >Jamie
>
>         Or whether certain people don't want to acknowledge that AA in its
> current form is a failure.

Oh, it's a failure now, is it?  A day or two ago it was just not a
complete success.  I guess by Thursday it'll be worse than slavery!

I hadn't intended to continue this argument, but you provided so many
straight lines I just couldn't resist  :-).

Best,
Peter

> Brett'
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Date:         Mon, 11 Jan 1993 09:17:00 -0400
From:         "Michael J. McCarthy" <YEA003@MARSHALL.MU.WVNET.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Uncl: Re: Uncl: school daze

>From Robert
>The following excerpts are from the article which ran in the Tulsa World
>Jan. 3, 93.
>
>    Math's emphasis will change beginning with fifth grade.  Instead
>    of computing with pencil and paper, students will spend more time
>    learning how to estimate results and use calculators.
>
>    "There is still a need for exact numbers, but those can be
>     figured with hand-held calculators"
>                  - Gwen Humphrey, curriculum manager, Tulsa Pub Schools

        You tell 'em Robert.  Remember the good old days, the late Middle Ages,
when history students and such had to compile their own textbooks from verbatim
transcriptions of the professor's lecture, which itself was read from a book?
Well, I understand now that some so-called universities actually allow students
-- even encourage them -- to purchase PRE-PRINTED textbooks.  How will they
ever learn history or hand-writing?

Mike, who is ticked off because the bookstore just now told him that one of the
books for his courses is indefinately unavailable.  Nice to know ON THE DAY THE
COURSE BEGINS!
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Date:         Mon, 11 Jan 1993 10:33:06 PST
From:         Jonathan Fisher <jfisher@NETXWEST.COM>
Subject:      Re: Kevorkian Sets Sights on Ohio
Comments: To: POLITICS@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

> I think that it might be important to add that Kevorkian assists those with
> diseases that aren't terminal, only chronic. These individuals are in pain,
 but
> is it proper to assist these people in ending their lives? I question whether
> it is. Terminal illness is one thing but chronic pain? Why not allow the
> chronically depressed to commit suicide as well - they're in pain as well are
> they not? It is evident that some sort of regulations are needed to limit
> people like Kevorkian from killing those who are not terminally ill.
>
> - Dan
>

I feel that _anyone_ who wants to commit suicide ought to be allowed
to do so.  It's their life.  As for the assisting, from what I understand
of Dr. Kevorkian, he just supplies the equipment to make it easier.  Other
people have said that he makes sure family members know and that the
person involved gets counseled.  This is better than the person driving
over to the nearest bridge and jumping.

Jonathan
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Date:         Tue, 12 Jan 1993 11:21:00 EST
From:         linda <SABOE@VUVAXCOM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: estimating

>--KAT (more thinking--less repetition--longer school hours--
>       longer school year--no summer vacation rather shorter
>       more frequent vacations--smaller classes--higher paid
>       teachers--shorter work days for teachers)


kat, i agree w/all these pts. except.....how can you have longer school
hours but shorter work days for teachers???

my math skills are not very good because of repeated calculations and
emotional trauma brought on by a long division :)

-linda
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Date:         Tue, 5 Jan 1993 16:04:00 ET
From:         "Ellen.Edgerton" <EBEDGERT@SUADMIN.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: nambla

What does NAMBLA stand for?  National Man-Boy Love Association, right?
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Date:         Thu, 7 Jan 1993 13:01:25 -0400
From:         The Integral Differential <DEMON@DESIRE.WRIGHT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Kevorkian Sets Sights on Ohio
Comments: To: POLITICS@OHSTVMA.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU

>I read in the Beacon Journal this morning that Dr. Death himself is
>coming to Ohio because the state legislature has permitted assisted
>suicide.
>Comments?
>Evelyn Duncan

        Cool.

Brett'
(Anticipating...)
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