From: "20583, BENNING, BRUCE" <abvax!iccgcc.decnet.ab.com!BENNING>
Newsgroups: alt.messianic
Subject: re:Response to RS and Intro
Date: 8 Apr 92 08:58:00 EST

Subj:        RE: Response to Rob Strom and Introduction -- 1709
>|>  {.....}

>
 Bruce Benning asked:
>|>   I just have to ask. Why does your personal experience cause you
>|>   to believe that Messianic organizations are "Fronts" set up by
>|>   Christians?
>|>   [...deleted stuff...]
>|>    Tikvat Yisrael in Cleveland is supported only by its
>|>   members. Without that support we would collapse. I have yet to see
>|>   any evidence that supports the "Christian front" scenario.
>|>
>|> > strom@watson.ibm.com (Rob Strom) writes:
>Are you Jewish, Bruce?  From your postings it's hard
>to see any trace of your Jewish upbringing.  If your
>entire religious background is Christian and you're
>a leader in a Messianic movement, then you're part of
>what I'm talking about.
>
  ** Please don't make the mistake of evaluating the whole Messianic
     movement based upon me. That would be like not believing in
     Yeshua because of something I said that offended you. If you
     want to meet Jewish believers in Yeshua, I can arrange it for
     you. But just because those folks don't have access to this
     newsgroup doesn't make them nonexistent.

   1) I am not Jewish. Before being married (my wife is Jewish) I
  considered converting. (Would that make my wife a Proselytizer?)
  My wife didn't think that was needed.(BTW, I was married Sunday
  afternoon.)
  From comments made my many of my Jewish brothers, it doesn't
  matter if we in the Messianic movement are Jewish or not. Those
  who oppose MJ's say that those who were Jews before accepting the
  atonement of Yeshua are no longer Jews now. Just because there
  are not Jewish believers in great numbers on alt.messianic
  doesn't mean they don't exist. I also communicate to Messianic
  bulletin boards, and they want to know how the can get access to
  alt.Messianic. Perhaps one day there will be more who have access.
  If it is any conciliation, my family celebrates the major Jewish
  holidays, we don't work on the Sabbath, and I have a Mezuzah on
  my door post. I can make a great Challah, and even my mother-in-
  law thinks I must have some Jewish blood in me because my holiday
  cooking is as good or (in some rare cases) better than
  hers.[BTW, my mother-in-law is one of those great Jewish cooks!]
  My daughter starts HEBREW next year. I do these things to preserve
  the Jewishness of my heritage, and that of my wife's.

  My upbringing was "be a good person, and do the right things,
  don't break any of the -10 Commandments- and you will have a
  chance at HEAVEN. Sounds a little like Judaism.

   2) I am not a leader in the Messianic Movement. I'm just a
  regular guy. My congregation is about 68% (as of last weeks count)
  Jewish. The leaders are all Jewish. You are just lucky enough to
  have me here because I have access through my brother's help.
          [Thanks again guy's]

  An extra. My brother-in-law is a Jewish believer in Yeshua. He
  does NOT attend at the Messianic Congregation in town. He still
  does reach out to unbelieving Jewish friends and family. He will
  refer to himself as a Jewish-Christian.

>My personal experience is that the Jews for Jesus
>group which converted my brother-in-law was led
>by a spiritual leader who was never Jewish.

  This is rare. Jews for Jesus prefers Jews_born_anew in leadership
  roles. (not that they have anything against Gentile's. It is
  just that there are so many Jewish men and women who are
  believing in their Messiah that JFJ can be picky.)

>A large part of the congregation attending
>the weddings of my brother-in-law and sister-in-law
>were either non-Jewish or so Jewishly unaware
>that they were unfamiliar with the normal
>customs of Jewish weddings.

  This doesn't prove anything. I was at a REFORM wedding with my
  wife. When the Groom broke the glass (I think it was a light
  bulb) I was the only one who yelled mazaltov. There wasn't even
  an understanding why the glass was broke. But this doesn't make
  them Gentile's. Or does it?

>The messianics on this group don't ever
>talk about their early life as Jews.

  I don't talk about my early life an a unbelieving Gentile either.
  Would you like the short version or the long one about my life
  before I converted?  8-)
>--
>Rob Strom, strom@watson.ibm.com, (914) 784-7641
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Bruce Benning __________ benning@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com

          -------------Religion may inform and reform-------------
          ----------but only Messiah Yeshua can Transform----------

  |   For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are  |
  |   perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of   |
  |   God.                                                          |
                                                  [1 Cor 1:18]





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