HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jespah@milton.u.washington.edu (Kathleen Hunt)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: interbreeding (was: help need friend)
Date: 27 Jul 92 23:33:29 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <1992Jul26.072100.15825@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> tracy@scoraz.resp-sci.arizona.edu (Tracy Scheinkman) writes:
>  Not even the Przywalski's horse can be crossed
>with a modern horse and produce a fertile offspring.  

Actually the Przewalski's horse and the domestic horse *can* have fertile
offspring.  In fact, the zookeepers responsible for the management of the
last tiny herd of Przewalski's horses found that a domestic Quarter Horse
mare had gotten mixed in with the herd at some point, so that a lot of
Przewalski's horses now carry Quarter Horse genes.  

All captive Przewalski's horses are now managed by a Species Survival
Plan (SSP's are used by most zoos to coordinate breeding of the most 
critically endangered species.  The P-Horse sure qualifies because it
was extinct in the wild for decades.)  The National Zoo in particular had 
a good herd of them.  The zoo people have tried to weed out the Quarter
Horse genes and to bring the P-horse back to a more "wild" form, and are
now trying to release them back to the wild.

Just FYI...

Kathleen



-- 
"And this is a tiny radiotransmitter.  It transmits tiny radios through
 the air to this tiny radio receiver."
From: pallas@cephalo.neusc.bcm.tmc.edu (Sarah Pallas)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: IN SEARCH OF RIDING!
Keywords: Riding without a guide
Date: 28 Jul 1992 17:38:46 GMT
Organization: Baylor College of Medicine, Houston,Tx

In article <1992Jul28.001555.11202@athena.mit.edu> aviator@athena.mit.edu (Joakim Karlsson) writes:
>I just couldn't resist posting - and this has been seconded by someone else
>on the net in the past - when people say "I want to rent horses someplace
>without a guide" it really hits my trigger.  The *only* reason people say
>this is because they want to run the s*** out of the horses!  Otherwise
>you wouldn't mind a guide being along. 
>(stuff deleted)
>
>Karen Karlsson
>
I am of two opinions about this.  I agree with Karen that people
often think of horses as inanimate objects that just have legs
instead of wheels.  Especially people who look for rentals
without a guide.  But there is another side to the story, e.g.,
myself.  Growing up in Minnesota, I went trail riding at "dude"
ranches a lot, most of them required a guide.  I finally found
a place that didn't, so I went there instead.  The reason wasn't
so I could run the horses to death, because the dude ranches
in that area incorporated two dead runs into every ride, and a
beginner horse was one that would refuse to run with the other horses.
Rather, it was to get some privacy with the horse and with my
friends, and to get the rather romantic feeling of wandering around
aimlessly on horseback through fields and streams and woods.
Also, the guides were pretty scuzzy sorts and I didn't really
want to be around them!

Because it was obvious to the people that ran the ranch that I
could ride really well, and because I almost never came back with
a sweaty horse and if I did I walked it until it was dry, they
felt comfortable leting me go out with their horses without a 
guide.

Now it's almost impossible to find a place to rent a horse without
a guide, and all the places that rent will only allow a
walk.  You get screamed at for two steps of trot to catch up
with the group.  This seems to be true all over the US now.  so
now I guess I would like to go without a guide so I could at
least trot once in awhile!  Trail riding has become as activity
that is designed ONLY for people who've never been on a horse
before, and therefore wouldn't be capable of trotting or of
knowing when to rest the horse.  I think this is detrimental
to the whole sport, as it reduces the interest of people who
ride better than that.  If all they ever get to do is walk
with the horses nose to tail, it wouldn't be surprising if they
thought horseback riding was a big bore.

So my suggestion would be that if you ride at a place long enough
to show them that you know what you're doing and you have the
horse's best interests firmly in mind, riding without a guide
should be OK.  Not *everyone* who wants to go without a guide
would be unkind to the horses.
From: susan@noaapmel.gov (Susan Collicott)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Names, again!
Date: 30 Jul 92 00:17:36 GMT
Organization: NOAA/PMEL, Sand Point Way, Seattle, WA


Since so many other people had good luck with the name game here, I told
my friend I'd give it a try.

She has been given a filly (about 1 year old, though no one is sure - it's
a rescue animal), who is *probably* a Quarter Horse mix.  There were no 
records found, and the previous 'owner' has no idea.

She is carmel colored, with two white socks on the hindlegs. Her mane and 
tail are a light carmel, with some dark brown streaks in the tail - which
looks like it's going to be a beautiful tail, when she's healthy again. 
She has a crooked blaze - it starts at the right side of her face, and
ends up coloring the left nostril.  Her forelock is very long, and she has
a habit of tossing it up behind her ears - which makes her look really
silly!

She was starving, had thrush, hadn't had her hooves *looked* at since birth,
she has multiple cuts that are still healing, and one of her wounds on her 
shoulder looks like a chevron, and all of her tail had been rubbed off down
to the skin.  She hadn't been outside her stall for about 4 months. 

I helped unload her from the trailer, at her new home.  She was friendly,
inquisitive, and didn't try to nip or kick the vet at all, through all the 
pain she gave the poor dear during stitching and shots and cleanings.

She likes to rest her head on your shoulder when you come in the stall late
at night.  Her favorite thing to eat?  French Fries.  She'll ignore Sweetena
in order to get fries - even apples don't lure her from those fries. She
lets the barn cats sleep in her stall, and she even likes to have them jump
on her back and run up her neck, and sit on her head!  What a sight that
is!  She has never been ridden, or even trained for anything other than
being caught and haltered.  Yet she treated the farrier's visit like it
was old stuff. 

We've thought of "Sunny", since she had such a sunny disposition through all
her troubles, but it seems too ... 'cheesy' a name. :)  

Any suggestions are welcomed!
From: doconnor@sedona.intel.com (Dennis O'Connor)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: Need a Friend
Date: 22 Jul 92 05:59:29 GMT
	<DOCONNOR.92Jul20132154@potato.sedona.intel.com>
	<HANNAH.92Jul21095637@pomponio.ai.sri.com> <13470@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu>
Organization: Intel i960(tm) Architecture
In-reply-to: pallas@cephalo.neusc.bcm.tmc.edu's message of 21 Jul 92 22:53:06 GMT


To add some CORRECT info (or at least, from a book ) :
From "The Horse", multiple authors, ISBN 0-7167-0491-9 :
Table 14-1:

Scientific name			Common name or names	Diploid# of Chromosomes
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Equus caballus, przewalskii	Przewalski's horse		66

Equus caballus			Horse				64

Equus asinus			Donkey, ass			62

Equus hemionus			Onager, kiang,			56
				Asiatic wild ass

Equus grevyi			Grevy's zebra			46

Equus burchelli			Burchell's zebra,		44
				Damara zebra,
				Chapman's zebra
				Grant's zebra
				Boehm's zebra

Equus zebra			Mountain zebra,			32
				true zebra,
				Hartmann's zebra


======================================
Hybrids noted, not usually fertile unless noted :

		Horse and Przewalski's Horse			65*
		Jackass by mare ( mule )			63
		Stallion by jennet ( hinny )			63
		male Grevy's zebra by mare ( zebroid )		53
		male Grant's zebra by jennet ( zebronkey )	53

	*this hybrid is fertile.


And from p. 429 ( chapter 14, first page ):

	"Despite the differences in the chromosome numbers, live hybrids
    have been born from crosses between all these species except for the
    crosses of Przewalski's horse and Grevy's zebra and true zebras, and
    crosses of Grevy's zebra with the onager and with Burchell's zebra."

Pictures of burro/Shetland, Morgan/jennet, and zebra/Shetland are included.

Pretty amazing that these disparate beasts can interbreed, eh ?
Sorry for the previous terribly wrong info.


--
Dennis O'Connor			doconnor@sedona.intel.com
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: aviator@athena.mit.edu (Joakim Karlsson)
Subject: Re: Home trials, (Was: Drugging horses for sale)
Organization: Flight Transportation Associates, Cambridge, MA
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 00:43:46 GMT

I would never let my horse leave the barn for a trial period if he
were for sale.  Reasons?  Most buyers are total strangers, you have
no idea how they might ride when not in the ring in front of you.
What if they decide a good test for soundness if to jump an unfit
horse for 3 hours?  Then you end up with a lame horse the buyer no
longer wants and good luck getting them to pay for the damage to the
horse, even with a watertight contract beforehand.  The risk is just
too great, especially for a horse you care about.  I would, however,
let a buyer have a trial period at *my* barn, where I could keep an
eye on them for the duration of the trial.  I really can't think of
anything you can do at another barn that you couldn't do at the home
barn where the horse is stabled to try it out over a two week period.
That way you can see how they operate and deal with the horse too, to
see if it will be a good match.

Karen Karlsson
--
----
Karen Karlsson on Joakim Karlsson's account
aviator@athena.mit.edu
----
From: judy@valinor.mythical.com (Judy Labovitz)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: olympic tapes
Keywords: olympic, tapes, triplecast
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 11:05:33 CDT
Distribution: world
Organization: (What? Organized??) - Mythical Computer Systems

Talk about a full mailbox!!!!  I will tape all the equestrian stuff shown
and will get back to all of you who asked about renting/buying/copying my
tapes after the games are over and my mailbox stops being inundated with
requests.  How I decide to handle this will depend on how many requests I
get from people.  Don't worry if you don't here from me through e-mail, I
haven't forgotten you but need time to dig out :-)

Judy

(My and my big mouth and generous soul !!)

        
   Judith A Labovitz               judy@valinor.mythical.com
                                   uunet!valinor!judy
            I bark, therefore I am.    ---- Rene Descarte's dog.
From: doconnor@sedona.intel.com (Dennis O'Connor)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: 2x4 eating animals.
Date: 29 Jul 92 20:13:40 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Intel i960(tm) Architecture
In-reply-to: AS.GGG@forsythe.stanford.edu's message of 29 Jul 92 18:00:27 GMT


"Crib-X" and "Positively No Wood Chew" are two non-toxic
anti-wood-eating products I've had succes withg in the past.
"Positively No Wood Chew" in particular is very effective,
and leaves no greasy deposits on the wood. But it's an
aerosal that you really DON'T want to catch any overspray
or mist from : it tastes REALLY awful. It's made of a
bunch of FDA-approved artificial flavors, but at full strength.
--
Dennis O'Connor			doconnor@sedona.intel.com
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: AS.GGG@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gwyn Gordon)
Subject: RE: Rubber bands?
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 19:36:24 GMT

>Question for the rest of you:  I have four horses, two with manes that
>at least part of tries to stand up no matter what, and two whose manes
>are nicely manageable.  As I said, I have washed, conditioned, pulled,
>banded, used Pepi and Grand Champion spray, hooded, etc.  What do you
>do for manes like this?  I haven't tried hot-oil treatments yet.
>
There may already be a million answers to this...but here comes
mine:

Braid the mane down (on the right side) in SMALL sections, 3/4" to
1" maximum. Wet the mane thoroughly BEFORE, DURING and AFTER
braiding. Leave the braids in at least overnight, better yet for a
day or so, wetting it down as often as you can. Don't leave them in
too long if they are very tight, because it makes their crests sore.
When you take the braids out, don't comb them out dry; instead, just
cut the yarn (or remove the rubber bands) and sponge over them again
with water, letting the flow of water undo the braids. You can
loosen them with your fingers if it helps. Then comb the wet hair
down on that side and let it dry. This technique should train the
hair effectively for a while -- but if your horses' manes are
particularly difficult, you may have to repeat it a couple of times.
BUT IT WORKS!

Good luck!

-gwyn.gordon@forsythe.stanford.edu
From: grog@adagio.UUCP (Greg Lehey)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: 2x4 eating animals.
Date: 24 Jul 92 08:46:01 GMT
Organization: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, W-6324 Feldatal, Germany

In article <3030331@hpfcmgw.FC.HP.COM> wendy@hpfcmgw.FC.HP.COM (Wendy Milner) writes:
>Creasote is illegal.  It used to be used for railroad ties and
>such, but has been found to be very bad for the environment.

It's also very bad for horses.

>I use Carbolinium.  You can buy it in brown or clear.  It tastes
>terrible (so my horses say).  It is non-toxic as well.

I thought that Carbolineum was the German name for creosote. In any
case, they're very similar, and *they are poisonous*.

Now I wish I knew an answer to this problem. Ours is that we use
thicker wood and replace it when it's been eaten.

-- 
Greg Lehey                       | Tel: +49-6637-1488              
LEMIS                            | Fax: +49-6637-1489
Schellnhausen 2, W-6324 Feldatal, Germany
*** NOTE ***: Headers are mangled - reply to grog%lemis@Germany.EU.net
From: mdresser@pbs.org (Melanie Dresser)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: mailing list
Date: 28 Jul 92 13:04:10 EDT
Organization: PBS:Public Broadcasting Service, Alexandria, VA

Our sites seems to be very unreliable and I
am always missing posts.  Can someone tell
me how to get on the mailing list for the
digest?

Thanks,

Melanie
-- 
**************************************************************
          Melanie L. Dresser	  mdresser@pbs.org    
**************************************************************
"In this world, you must be oh so smart, or oh so pleasant.
Well, for years I was smart; I recommend pleasant.  You may
quote me."  Elwood P. Dowd
**************************************************************
From: doconnor@sedona.intel.com (Dennis O'Connor)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: interbreeding
Date: 28 Jul 92 00:23:45 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Intel i960(tm) Architecture
In-reply-to: tracy@scoraz.resp-sci.arizona.edu's message of 27 Jul 92 22:19:41 GMT


tracy@scoraz.resp-sci.arizona.edu (Tracy Scheinkman) writes:
 Distribution: usa
] There is some confusion in some books between Przywalski's horse and
] the Tarpan

The book I gave was a textbook from my wife's college courses.
This isn't proof of infallibility, but it gives it credibility.

] which was a primitive wild horse that became extinct through
] interbreeding with modern horses and has only been recreated by taking
] native (Polish, I believe) horses with primitive characteristics and
] letting them run wild in a forest preserve until they bred true for
] those characteristics and resembled the Tarpan of old.

One such re-creation effort ( the only one I know of, which I
actually visited and saw the "Tarpans" at ) is at the Catskill
Game Farm in Catskill, New York. But I think this is a directed
breeding program, not letting the horses "run wild". Catskill
Game Farm is a privately owned  combination public-allowed zoo
( for the revenue )  and off-limits wildlife preserve. You can
probably call them for info ( you'd have to get the number from
directory assistance ).

] Perhaps it is this horse, which is sometimes called (by confused sources)
] Equus Przywalski Tarpanensis, that some books are confusing with the
] Asiatic Wild Horse (Equus Przywalski)?

The book had lots of good scientific details in it ( like pictures
of the chromosomes of all the Equids, and some of the crosses ).
I don't think the four authors have a high probability of confusion.
But if you find they are wrong, you should definately let them 
know : I really hate it when college textbooks are completely wrong !

Good luck with your varied researchs !
--
Dennis O'Connor			doconnor@sedona.intel.com
From: lcasey@uoft02.utoledo.edu
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Lameness treatment
Date: 22 Jul 92 08:41:39 EST
Organization: University of Toledo, Computer Services

Hi all!

I took my QH mare to supposedly one of the best lameness vets around Ohio
why she has been lame for the past year.  I have had 2 other vets work
her over, including x-rays, with no answers.

Doc first blocked a knee and said the joint was dry.  He then blocked the
back and front of her foot and ruled out navicular or laminitis.  He
blocked the ankle and said that joint was dry also.  Then he blocked the
check ligaments and ruled that out.  He manipulated both front legs and
checked her ribs.  He said the first rib was dislocated and would cause
lamness.

The treatment was injections of silicone in the knee and ankle.  Then he
injected this black stuff called "Mckays" through a foot long needle inserted
through the chest muscles to along side the first rib.

The mare went sound right after the treatment, but was three legged lame
three hours later.  She was still lame last nite.  This treatment was a little
off the wall to me and so far I can't say she's better.  This vet visit
was very expensive.  (and 70 miles away)  If she's not better by friday,
he'll want to repeat the shots.

Has anybody else tried this injection therapy?

Leigh
(Sue, you may know him-C. Vonderwell in Delphos) to try and figure out
 
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: sandi@hubcap.clemson.edu (Sandi Piazza)
Subject: Re: Olympic cross-country
Organization: Clemson University, Clemson SC
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 13:17:18 GMT

In article <1992Jul30.211353.17043@sei.cmu.edu> mapike@sei.cmu.edu (Mary Ann Pike) writes:
>In article <1992Jul30.194546.22720@sequent.com> pattyh@sequent.com (Patty Hansen) writes:
>>
>>Hello everyone!
>>
>>I saw the broadcast coverage of the cross-country portion of the
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>three-day event last night.  Unfortunately, all the networks seems
>
>Could someone tell me when this was? I taped the broadcast coverage from
>7:30 to midnight, and I watched most of it from about 9:30-midnight and
>didn't see it. If it's somewhere on the tape, I don't want to tape over
>it until I watch it (although, from the rest of the post, it doesn't 
>sound like it is much worth watching).
>
>Thanks,
>
>Mary Ann Pike   (mapike@sei.cmu.edu)    
>Software Engineering Institute                  
>Carnegie-Mellon University                      
>Pittsburgh PA                                   


The cross-country segment was on at about 8:30.

Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: eroth@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (elizabeth.s.roth)
Subject: Re: IN SEARCH OF RIDING!
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 16:58:32 GMT

In article <KRYSTEK.92Jul21123157@alcor.bms.com> krystek@alcor.bms.com (Stanley Krystek) writes:
>
>Omar,
>
>I live near Flemington and could not find a place to ride
>here in Hunterdon county due mostly to insurance the people
>told me.  There is a real nice park just over the border in
>Pennsylvania called Tyler state park.  At the park there is
>supposed to be a place to rent horses without guides for 
>riding on the trails in the park.  They say the rates are
>real affordable.
>
>Best of luck, I gave up and am building my barn so now I 
>have my two morgans and pony here.
>
>stan
>


Or, if moving or living in NJ, you could buy my house/barn/3 acres
and ride in the foothills, fields, and nearby parks.  Also located
near Flemington.  For sale now.  Call or write.


                      Susan Roth
                      (816) 995-3767 -- work
                      (816) 566-3455 -- home


-- 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>=<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
> Education never helped morals ... the smarter the |     (all the usual      <
> guy, the bigger the rascal.   --- Will Rogers --- |       disclaimers)      <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>=<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Xref: sparky rec.equestrian:3581 rec.sport.olympics:1249
From: paw@coos.dartmouth.edu (Pat Wilson)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian,rec.sport.olympics
Subject: Re: Cheated already!
Keywords: fie on NBC
Date: 28 Jul 92 15:18:41 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

sandi@hubcap.clemson.edu (Sandi Piazza) writes:

>Thanks Pat ... you saved me a lot of time on the phone !!!!! What is the
>name of the guy whose number you gave us? (I like to knoiw the name of
>the person I'm fussing at !!!!!) I was totally ticked off to discover
>that instead of 3 hours of 3-Day dressage we got only a little over 45
>minutes (by the way ... the 4:15 segment started at 4:05 ... so set
>those vcr's early!).

Yeah, I figured that out (you'd think they'd at least stick to
the schedule!).  On the other hand, the 4:15AM rebroadcast left off
the nice Mike Plumb 3-minute interview.  Sigh.  I'm glad I planned
to tape both.  Now I have one tape lacking several minutes of the beginning
of one test but _with_ the Plumb interview, and one catching the beginning
of the broadcast - with cameras on blathering announcers introducing 
themselves rather than showing the test then in progress - but no
Plumb at the end.  Waaaa... :-<

Anyhow, I'm not sure I caught the name (I only heard it from the
phonemail), but I _think_ it was Steve Fink or something like that.

BTW, I will be taping all of the coverage (dressage and jumping, too),
so it's possible I can help others (though I don't have any way to
copy tapes at the moment).
--
Pat Wilson
Systems Manager, Project NORTHSTAR
paw@northstar.dartmouth.edu
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian,rec.sport.olympics
From: jpenovic@wizard.Berkeley.EDU (Jan Penovich)
Subject: Re: Cheated already!
Keywords: fie on NBC
Reply-To: jpenovic@encore.com
Organization: Encore Computer Corp., Fort Lauderdale FL
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 19:53:03 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.165515.20697@cbnewsd.cb.att.com>,
jlevy@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (janet.s.levy) writes:

> The guy's name is Dave Lake - yes I also left him a messge expressing
> my feelings of OUTRAGE!  Why are equestrian events always short-changed?
> Are there really more fans of Greco-Roman wrestling than equestrian events?
> I seriously doubt it.
> 
  Actually, I'm not surprised.  The ads they were running
  around here to buy the triple cast said something to the
  effect that you should buy this service so you don't have to
  watch equestrian events and syncronized swimming on NBC's
  coverage.  Boy, that pissed me off.  (How can they even
  mention equestrian in the same breath with syncro.  swimming?)

  Aaarrrgghh!

  I'll bet the eques. events get more coverage in Europe.

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Newsgroups: rec.equestrian