HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jcooley@miracle.com (John Cooley)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Membership Renewal ??
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 16:39:45 EDT
Organization: Miracle Computer Consultants


jcooley@miracle.com (John Cooley) writes

>>I'm more interested in getting this newsgroup to be more like Compu$erve's
>>"Inside Mensa" forum.  Let's use this to discuss what's going on in the
>>group nationally, etc. with all the politicking and such.


blevenso@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Bryan D Levenson) writes:

>Sounds like a great idea to me!


jcooley@miracle.com (John Cooley) writes

>>(I personally ignore almost all the posts dealing with IQ, IQ tests and the
>>likes because after a while, I just don't care.   What's more fun for me is to
>> discuss what going on in Mensa as a social organization.)

blevenso@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Bryan D Levenson) writes:

>That's why I'm here! Bum Ba Ba Bum! Meet one of Columbus Mensa's members - me!
>That's right folks - I found Compu$erve's forum and now I've found yours!
>HA HA HA HAAA! IT`S PARTY TIME! (Egos must be checked at the door. Sorry.)

jcooley@miracle.com (John Cooley) writes

It great to have you join us Bryan!  What shall we agree, disagree or just
plain gossip about, now?

What do you think of National's way of maintaining the old boy network
with the "Nominating Committee" deciding for us exactly who is qualified
for what office at what time?

In the "home of Freedom" (America) it seems so ironic to be having such
Soviet style of governing....   (The Central Committee has decided that
the following candidates are now qualified for the following positions.
(Usually ONE candidate per position!)  For example, out of the 50,000 or
so members in American Mensa, it appears that Dave Remine was the ONLY
person qualified to be our next president -- or that's at least what the
Nom Com's report leads one to believe in Interloc!)

Comments, anyone?
                                                  - John Cooley
                                                    LocSec, Boston Mensa


 ==========================================================================
       John Cooley              Zappa as a waste management engineer: 
                                  "Hey, there, Brother!  Whatcha
    jcooley@miracle.com            doing with that Cosmic Debris?"  

Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: eager@eagercon.com (Michael J. Eager)
Subject: Boycott Colorado (was Re: Membership Renewal ??)
Reply-To: eager@eagercon.com
Organization: Eager Consulting
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 02:07:32 GMT

In article 23762@ryn.mro4.dec.com, shapiro@cfsctc.enet.dec.com (Steve Shapiro) writes:
>
>The vote was a vote by the PEOPLE, not by legislators. Under our DEMOCRATIC
>process in this country, and exemplified by the citizens of Colorado, the
>democratic method as determined that the people of Colorado, by a majority
>vote, do not want homosexuals to be considered a protected class and subject to
>special privileges which are not available to non-homosexuals. 

I don't believe that the amendment as passed had the effect of making 
homosexuals not be a protected class.  (I also dispute whether homosexuals 
are in any respect a special class or that they have any special priveleges.)
It had the effect of negating all of the equal protection statues currently on 
the books.

Under both state and federal law, it is illegal to discriminate based on sex,
race, or religion.  Many states have extended this to include discrimination 
based on sexual preference.  Amendment 2 said that no complaints could be filed
based on discrimination against homosexuals.

It also ment that the hate crime statutes applied to skin-heads defacing
gravestones, but didn't apply to skin-heads beating up people with earrings.
  
>
>If something were to be boycotted, how about actually going out, finding which
>businesses were actually discriminating based on homosexuality, and boycot
>those businesses.

The Amendment makes this entirely legal.  How do you find the businesses which
discriminate when being fired for being a homosexual (or suspected homosexual)
is legal?  How many whistle blowers do you expect to find?

>
>Also, since the 'boycott', it seems that Colorado has been prospering even
>more! Guess that the publicity helped.

You surely have some facts to base this on, don't you?  The amendment passed
in November.  You must be wired into the very pulse of the Colorado economy
to be able to determine the effects of a boycott which has just started.

>
>The thing that galls me is the hypocrisy of those who called for the boycott,
>and then exempted themselves and certain areas of Colorado for arbitrary
>reasons.

Unless this sentence is a complete non-sequiter, you must be refering to some 
people and some areas of Colorado.  Who and where?  Or is this just some
mock righteous indignation, generated to rationalize your previous comments?


---
Michael J. Eager		Michael.Eager@eagercon.com
Eager Consulting		(415) 325-8077 
1960 Park Boulevard, Palo Alto, CA 94306-1141

Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: johnson@sleipnir.pb.wes.mot.com (Mark Johnson)
Subject: Re: Non-flaming dialogue wanted
Reply-To: johnson@wes.mot.com
Organization: Motorola Wireless Enterprises, Schaumburg, IL
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 15:25:40 GMT

Just a couple of general comments, since the cases for both sides of this
issue seem to have been generally covered...

1.  You want a non-flaming dialog in r.o.m???  Just the inclusion of the
    phrase non-flaming is flamebait to half of us.  :-)

2.  Should the arguments on this issue (elimination of qualification
    requirements) be in the FAQ?  They seem to recur every couple of months.

3.  Why propose major changes to Mensa's charter?  Just as we are free to
    have our little club, you are free to start your own.  If it turns out
    well, maybe we'll join it.  Till then...
-- 
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| "Johnson"            | Paranoid schizophrenics outnumber their enemies at  |
| johnson@wes.mot.com  |                 least two to one.                   |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Disclaimer:  If Motorola agreed with what I said, I'd get paid a lot more. |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: apb@world.std.com (Al Beecy)
Subject: Re: Membership Renewal ??
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 20:35:54 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.125452.23244@ryn.mro4.dec.com> shapiro@cfsctc.enet.dec.com (Steve Shapiro) writes:
>
>However, if national is going to get the biggest bulk of my money, I would like
>to see some sort of return of value for that money. It is not a matter of

In fairness (me fair??) to National, a lot of the money they spend
(employees, mailings, etc..) is to support the the local groups. If they
didn't have 143 local groups to deal with a post office box and a spare
bedroom office would probably be sufficient to run AML since without local
groups, the only members National would be able to hold onto would be wall
certificate crowd (who quietly pay their dues each year but demand no

>>organization that does."  I'd far rather see my dues donated to MERF, or
>>some other worthy cause, than frittered away trying to retain the

Not no, but HELL NO! I expect my dues to be spent serving ME. Call me
cheap and selfish, I don't care.


>Hmmm. I guess I could be wrong. There is the case where someone puts a gun to
>your head and threatens to kill you unless you join.

Alright! Who told? Our new recruiting program was supposed to be secret!
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: A newcomer...
Date: 25 Jan 93 18:32:41 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <1993Jan25.162214.24192@ryn.mro4.dec.com> shapiro@cfsctc.enet.dec.com (Steve Shapiro) writes:
>
>In article <727732844.AA00000@blkcat.UUCP>,
>Dave.Aronson@p11.f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Dave Aronson) writes...
>
>> MJE> I don't think anyone has been archiving rec.org.mensa.   That is an
>> MJE> idea whose time has not yet come.  (The idea of preserving Scott Tai
>> MJE> and flames back and forth for all posterity is somewhat disturbing.)
>> 
>>How apropos, preserving a horse's posterior for posterity....
>
>Well, now that he has his own newsgroup...

It seems fairly obvious that Tai does quite a bit of archiving, considering
how much of previous articles appeared in his last post.  Might just
as well start alt.tai.talking.to.himself.

GMS
From: imcc@cs.strath.ac.uk (Iain McCord)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Jealousy (from the pages of omni....)
Date: 26 Jan 93 15:49:17 GMT
Organization: Comp. Sci. Dept., Strathclyde Univ., Scotland.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

gilbert.m.stewart (gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com) wrote:
: And, as with your stopwatch, there is a chance that the future performance
: will not match the past, but that is improbable.  Not impossible,
: improbable, just as every measurement ever done of anything.  This
: is waste of time.

  It has been shown that it's possible to increase the score on an IQ test
through practice.  A person who knows the reasoning behind a given problem
has less work to do than one who must first decipher the question, and then
find an answer.  There is a theoretical upper limit to the improvement that
can be acheived through training.
  Annecdotal evidence...  British middle class papers used to run puzzle
sections for children, with questions similar to those found in IQ tests.
Comparing the results of middle and working class children showed the
result of practice.
  
: GMS

		~~~~~/\~~~~~
Iain McCord	~~~~/()\~~~~	Tue Jan 26 15:49:15 WET 1993
		~~~~~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: scott@nord.tostit.ca (Scott A Tai)
Subject: t: Blasphemy?
Reply-To: scott@nord.tostit.ca (Scott A Tai)
Organization: Tostit Northern Associates, Calgary, AB
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 10:25:21 GMT


gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart) writes:
> moroney@world.std.com (Michael Moroney) writes:
> >159muehlberg@gw.wmich.edu writes:
> >
> >>Help!  Who is Scott Tai? (this may be sacrilege, this may be humor....)
> >
> >A coward, too chicken to post his criticisms under his/her/its real name,
> >posting under a variety of aliases instead.  Scott Tai, Dr. N O Tai,
> >Robin Adler-Pope are some of them.
> 
> You have to admit, however, that it is fairly rare that an individual is
> able to make himself a virtual pariah to an entire newsgroup, as well as
> to individuals on both sides of virtually every issue.  And I personally
> find it absolutely hilarious that someone would engage non-stop in rude
> behavior, then whine about being ignored, then stoop to begging, and then
> rationalize being a "victim".  And all in different names.  I swear, it's
> like watching Anthony Hopkins in "Magic", only it's not a movie.  I
> believe an explosion is about to happen, so don't say I didn't warn you.
> I'd hate to be the person's roommate about now.
> 
> Whenever I think there's nothing left in human behavior to surprise me,
> something like this pops up.  There must be a God -- with a real
> sense of humor.

Ah, here it is -- now you have thrown off the mask and I can see
all your cold hate for me.  Your article was insulting to me, and
very painful too!  And I am very sorry that you don't want to
understand me.  You can't conceive moral torture worse than what
I've gone through here on r.o.m!  You teach me now how cruel
you've been -- cruel and false.

Gilbert, you're intelligent -- but you seem unable to assess the
consequences of your actions, on r.o.m at least.  You seem to
prefer lying to speaking the truth, even though you derive no
apparent benefit from it, and are certain to be found out and
punished -- in short, I see you as a "moral imbecile".

Please don't think I am criticizing you -- not at all!  Perhaps
in your place I should have done the same.  I don't and can't
enter into that.

I'm not angry with you either -- but I'm sorry in two ways.  I'm
sorry because this means breaking up our friendship -- if not
breaking it, at least imparing it.  You understand that for me,
too, there can be no other course.

I wanted to say we can't go on like this:  it's torture.  I am
wretched, you are wretched.  And what for?  Whether we have
acted rightly or wrongly is another question, but the die is
cast ...

--
Scott Andrew Tai
Tostit Northern Associates
Artificial Intelligence Systems Laboratory
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: Stefan Farestam <farestam@cerfacs.fr>
Subject: Re: Jealousy (from the pages of omni....)
Organization: C.E.R.F.A.C.S., Toulouse, France
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 00:32:55 GMT

In article <C19z27.Dnv@cs.dal.ca>, kumar@ug.cs.dal.ca (kumar yelubandi) writes:
>Conclusion:  The probability that the most intelligent
>	     human being is NOT a member of MENSA is far
>	     greater than the probability he/she is.
>	     (of course, only if such a person exists at all)
>		
>

   ...and Santa Monica Track Club has what, 50 members? Gee, I bet chances
   are negligibly small that they might have some very good runners (You
   know, like olympic medal winners). Yep, that can decidedly not be the
   case.

   /Stefan
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: apb@world.std.com (Al Beecy)
Subject: Re: Membership Renewal ??
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 12:09:29 GMT

In article <22Jan93000540@miracle.com> jcooley@miracle.com (John Cooley) writes:

>I hearby appoint Steve Shapiro God of Boston Mensa. 

Just in time to get listed in the March Beacon :^)

Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: moroney@world.std.com (Michael Moroney)
Subject: Re: Something in us going wrong ...
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 03:26:39 GMT

not@mvs.ais.com (N O Tai) writes:


>What about Scott Tai?
...
>If you want to know, we really have something in
>common.

You sure do.

-Mike
From: apb@world.std.com (Al Beecy)
Subject: Re: Budget cuts
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 12:12:37 GMT

In article <1993Jan25.095554.1@nlzcl.decnet.philips.nl> zwanenbu@nlzcl.decnet.philips.nl (Godwin Zwanenburg) writes:
>> 
>>>> >14) Stop paying to send national editors and AMC members to IGs
>>>> 
>Mensa asks his volonteers to do a lot of work, are they supposed to pay for all 
>the expences involved? That makes the offices only open to people who not only

I don't consider AMC members' attending IGs to be a *necessary* expense.
So the answer to your question is, no, they're not supposed to pay the
expenses involved -- unless they want to go. Same as everyone else.
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Subject: Re: Something in us going wrong ...
Organization: AT&T
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 07:24:50 GMT

In article <mike_steiner-260193111415@192.35.50.131> mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner) writes:
>In article <1993Jan23.080823.24460@ncsu.edu>, truth@mvs.ais.com (Matt
>Truth) wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart) writes:
>> : kyle@wendy-fate.UU.NET (Kyle Jones) writes:
>> : >not@mvs.ais.com (N O Tai) writes:
>> : > > I quite agree that Scott's behavior at times has been
>> : > > reprehensible, but may I beg you to take into account that it
>> : > > was a mistake and make allowances for his youth?  Besides
>> : > > which, he regrets it deeply and entreats your forgiveness.
[....]
>
>Who let Tai out of his cage again?

Remember that there may be someone who owns this Tai thing who is
as repulsed by what is happening as we are.  It may be the person
who is sucking up, but or course I can't be sure without intelligible
communication.

GMS
From: mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Membership Renewal ??
Date: 25 Jan 93 18:22:44 GMT
Followup-To: rec.org.mensa

In article <22Jan93012434@miracle.com>, jcooley@miracle.com (John Cooley)
wrote:
> 
> mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner) writes:
> 
> >No quoting is usually as bad as excessive quoting.
> >
> >--Mike
> 
> I disagree.  Most of us use subject readers that make quotes unneccessary.
> 
> -john

I use your message to support my thesis.  If your message had consisted
entirely of  "I disagree.  Most of us use subject readers that make quotes
unneccessary,"  it would not have lost its meaning because no one would
know to whom you were responding, or what statement you were addressing.

+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
|                         Boycott Colorado                            |
|     These are my opinions, and not necessarily any one else's.      |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: jcooley@world.std.com (John Cooley)
Subject: Re: Membership Renewal ??
Organization: The E-mail Synopsys Users Group (ESNUG)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 16:45:54 GMT

In article <1993Jan27.054134.27835@eagercon.com> eager@eagercon.com writes:
>In article 25740@ttinews.tti.com, hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath) writes:
>>In article <sfN2tei00XsH85Dm4c@andrew.cmu.edu> bluelobster+@CMU.EDU (David O Hunt) writes:
>>}>}... If we only
>>}>}want to break even, cut the glossy covers and such and publish
>>}>}at the level of the local pubs.  To me, information is what counts. ...
>>}>
>>}>I agree.  It would also be nice if the Bulletin were printed on recycled
>>}>and recyclable paper.
>>}
>>}Actually, I believe it is already!
>>
>>Glossy paper is not recyclable.
>
>I take all of my old magazines and catalogs, printed on glossy paper, to the
>local recycling center.  There is a large dumpster with just glossy paper.


Must be regional.  You can't recycle glossy paper anywhere near Boston...

-John
From: skh4161@mvs.draper.com (Kjeld Hvatum)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: A newcomer...
Date: 25 Jan 93 12:09:00 GMT
Organization: Draper Laboratory


> MJE> I don't think anyone has been archiving rec.org.mensa.   That is an
> MJE> idea whose time has not yet come.  (The idea of preserving Scott Tai
> MJE> and flames back and forth for all posterity is somewhat disturbing.)
>
>How apropos, preserving a horse's posterior for posterity....

...fecund material for retention in the annals of posterity...
...his seminal work is a stroke of genius...
From: jcooley@miracle.com (John Cooley)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Membership Renewal ??
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 15:46:43 EDT
Organization: Miracle Computer Consultants

mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner) writes:
>In article <1993Jan22.184402.27547@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>,
>blevenso@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Bryan D Levenson) wrote:
>> 
>
>> That's why I'm here! Bum Ba Ba Bum! Meet one of Columbus Mensa's members - me!
>> That's right folks - I found Compu$erve's forum and now I've found yours!
>> HA HA HA HAAA! IT`S PARTY TIME! (Egos must be checked at the door. Sorry.)
>
>Hi Bryan!  Now all that's left is for you to find the Fidonet Mensa echo.


Mike, how do simple creatures like myself who owns a computer with a 2400
baud modem connect to Fidonet Mensa?  Are there any nice cheap local
Boston area phone numbers (617) or (508) that I could use to check out
Fidonet Mensa?

Due to outrageous costs, ($13.00 per hour!)  I avoid using Compu$erve.

                                                  - John


 ==========================================================================
       John Cooley              Zappa as a waste management engineer: 
                                  "Hey, there, Brother!  Whatcha
    jcooley@miracle.com            doing with that Cosmic Debris?"
From: mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: IQ negatives
Date: 26 Jan 93 19:16:48 GMT
Followup-To: rec.org.mensa

In article <727700349snx@drummond.demon.co.uk>, graeme@drummond.demon.co.uk
(Graeme Hillary) wrote:
> 
> In article <1jk7vnINN29h@wendy-fate.UU.NET> kyle@wendy-fate.UU.NET (Kyle Jones) writes:
> > 
> > Indeed.  But if you can get away with it, why not?  If it's good
> > enough for the English Royal Family then, by damn, it's good
> > enough for me!  1/2 :-)
> > 
> > 
> They are the Royal Family of the United Kingdom and the Commonwealth.
> U.K. = Northern Ireland, Wales, England and SCOTLAND.
> 
> I hate it when people use England when they mean the UK.

Please explain the differences between England, the UK and Great Britain. 
I've always been confused about that.

Thanks.

+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
|                         Boycott Colorado                            |
|     These are my opinions, and not necessarily any one else's.      |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: eager@eagercon.com (Michael J. Eager)
Subject: Re: Jealousy (was Re: From the pages of Omni...)
Reply-To: eager@eagercon.com
Organization: Eager Consulting
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 17:19:33 GMT

In article FGq@cs.dal.ca, kumar@ug.cs.dal.ca (kumar yelubandi) writes:
>
>     Mensans are no more gifted than their 'highest value' member, 
>     whereas non-Mensans have the potential to be more.  Which subset
>     would you rather belong to?  

When you refer to people as members of sets you dehumanize them and 
diminish them in every way.  You set up a false comparison that Mensans
are some sort of monolithic group that lacks potential, compared to 
non-Mensans.  

In either group, the people are individuals, and as such, have their own
abilities and potential, realized or not.  

I find this to be one of the most demeaning of reverse-elitist statements.


---
Michael J. Eager		Michael.Eager@eagercon.com
Eager Consulting		(415) 325-8077 
1960 Park Boulevard, Palo Alto, CA 94306-1141

Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: graeme@drummond.demon.co.uk (Graeme Hillary)
Subject: Re: IQ negatives
Reply-To: graeme@drummond.demon.co.uk
Distribution: world
X-Mailer: cppnews $Revision: 1.20 $
Organization: not
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 03:59:09 +0000

In article <1jk7vnINN29h@wendy-fate.UU.NET> kyle@wendy-fate.UU.NET (Kyle Jones) writes:
> 
> Indeed.  But if you can get away with it, why not?  If it's good
> enough for the English Royal Family then, by damn, it's good
> enough for me!  1/2 :-)
> 
> 
They are the Royal Family of the United Kingdom and the Commonwealth.
U.K. = Northern Ireland, Wales, England and SCOTLAND.

I hate it when people use England when they mean the UK.


===Graeme  :-(


Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath)
Subject: Re: Membership Renewal ??
Organization: The Cat Factory
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 21:07:37 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.215350.3482@ryn.mro4.dec.com> shapiro@cfsctc.enet.dec.com (Steve Shapiro) writes:
}
}In article <1993Jan21.175104.12192@eagercon.com>, eager@eagercon.com (Michael
}J. Eager) writes...
}
}>did little to oppose it, in contrast to Oregon, where virtually all of the
}>politicians opposed an anti-gay initiative.
}
}NOT ANTI-GAY, ANTI-GIVING-SPECIAL-RIGHTS-FOR-GAYS-THAT-HETEROS-DONT-HAVE

Even if that were it's intent, it would still be unconstitutional.

If the wording had prohibited protection based on "sexual orientation"
they might have been on firmer ground.  However, the law explicitly, in so
many words, prohibits protections for homosexuals, lesbians and bisexuals.
In other words, if you like to rape small children (of the opposite sex),
bugger goats or have your way with dead horses (just to name a few), you
could, in theory, have a law passed to protect you from discrimination.
Under amendment 2 _only_ homosexuals and bisexuals are denied protection.

That violates the equal protection clause of the Constitution.  No two
ways about it.

The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@polymath.tti.com)
Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp                "If you can't stand solitude,
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483  perhaps others find you boring
Santa Monica, CA  90405                        as well."  -- Mark Twain
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa