HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sbecker@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: Kadie's post on Ritual Abuse
Date: 10 Jan 93 23:01:22 CST
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

Carl Kadie suggests in a recent post that Ritual Abuse isn't an appropriate
topic for ASAR <excuse me for not excerpting his post--I don't know how>.
If what is included under the heading "ritual abuse" includes *sexual abuse*,
then it is, of course, appropriate for this newsgroup.  Whether or not Mr.
Kadie believes in the stories, memories and pain of those who have experienced 
the trauma of ritual abuse, is really a moot point.  We don't ask non-survivors
to believe our incest/abuse stories. . .if Mr. Kadie *is* a survivor, I hope he
can extend the same courtesy of faith and validation to survivors whose abuse
occured within a ritual settoing.

To all those who are ritual abuse survivors, you deserve respect for even
managing to survive each day, and further kudos for coming forward to end the
silence and the scepticism.

Sarah
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: nancy@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Nancy Lebovitz)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: more on cutting, a suggestion
Date: 5 Jan 93 15:55:58 GMT
Organization: UDel, School of Life & Health Sciences

In article <1i3422INNhu0@shelley.u.washington.edu> cloister@stein.u.washington.edu (cloister bell) writes:
>anon-1259@twwells.com (Kate) writes:
>
>[ digression deleted ]
>
>>So I wanna know, what do i do now about all the scars on my arms and legs
>>that everyone asks about.  Sheesh.  And i have marks on my wrists too that
>>look like i tried to kill myself, but really they are just cutting.  I never
>>tried suicide by slitting my wrists,still it looks that way.
>
>well, you could try the alternative approach to shame: pride.  not pride in
>having cut yourself, but pride in having survived the pain deep enough to make
>you cause those scars.  wear them like merit badges.  you've been through the
>horror, you've survived.  that to me is something to be very proud of.
>
I've noticed that the standard of How a Body Ought to Look in this culture
seem to be Look as Though Nothing's Ever Happened to You. This may not be

Nancy Lebovitz
From: anon.30@pax.tpa.com.au
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: anonymity
Date: 7 Jan 1993 09:15:35 +1030
Organization: PAX - Public Access Unix (Adelaide,South Australia) - Anonymous Service
Reply-To: anon.30@pax.tpa.com.au
NNTP-Posting-Host: flash.pax.tpa.com.au


I think that anon posting is a very *good* idea, *especially* for a place
like asar.  Some of us, like Sierra, need to protect our identities from 
other people on the net.  

For me personally, there is tons of stuff that I would never, ever say if
I had to post non-anon, especially about multiplicity and letting all my
inside kids out.  An anonymous electronic support group was the first place
that I was actually able to get support as an incest survivor (it wasn't
asar -- I didn't have news access then) and for a while that was the *only*
place I felt safe enough to talk.  Then as I dealt with more of my stuff I
started talking to more people, on the net and off, with my real name and
non anonymously, to the point now that I will talk about being sexuall abused
in classrooms & advertise my telephone number when starting a survivors 
support group.

But I needed a process to go from anonymity to openness.  And once I realized
that I was multiple I needed that anonymity even more -- I have told I think
8 people that I am multiple, besides from the folks on asar.  And, as you
all know from my posts, I am thinking about starting to 'come out' as a
multiple to a lot more people, but that is still not a very safe thing to 
do, multiplicity is misunderstood and feared by a lot of people.  It is 
really important to me to have the anon services available.

This is just about having anonymous posting in general, I'm not commenting
on any particular service -- and I do think people should be aware that
most anon services are *not* moderated things.

Oh, another thing.  I have read-only access to news.  I *can't* post.  I
do post to some other newsgroups, but I have to do it through a anon service
at this point.  what I do is post through the anon service and include my
proper email address since I *don't* need anonymity there.  

If anyone knows of a way to post to usenet news group through email, but
not anonymously it would be greatly appreciated if you let me know.

-us peoples
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
anon.30@pax.tpa.com.au    (prefered address)

an1308@anon.penet.fi
anon-1410@twwells.com


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Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: an4617@anon.penet.fi
Subject: dysfunction
Organization: Anonymous contact service
X-Anonymously-To: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 21:24:03 GMT

You know, I've never had the feeling that I came from a "normal"
family.  I mean, when I was younger I never thought of the
interactions and relationships within my family as being
dysfunctional; I just really believed that they weren't the same as
everybody else's.  Because of this I think I lived (and live) with a
lot of shame about who I am and about my family members.  My ex SO
always wondered why I didn't tell him much about my family; well, no
wonder given the sorts of things that existed.  I think I just didn't
want people to know that I grew up in a family in which physical
abuse and emotional abuse were the norm.  Now I can admit that there
was abuse (I don't remember any details of sexual abuse, so I can't
really address that yet), but I get the feeling that there aren't too
many people in the world that want to hear about your childhood.  I
don't know what this indicates about the general compassion and
empathy level of the rest of the world, but the only people who seem
to able to listen are people who have gone through their own healing
process (survivors themselves!) or professional people (who are paid
to listen). 
   By the way, I made a conscious decision about my life today.
Yeah, I've been in therapy for over a year now and haven't gotten
anywhere, because I've been addressing everything except the hard
emotional stuff.  So I decided I didn't want to run away anymore... I
decided I would stop and take a lot at all those feelings, even if I
still don't know why I have these bad feelings about myself..  This
actually terrifies me, but you know... I just feel like I don't have
a choice anymore.  I have this premonition that the stuff is just
waiting to come out... sort of like the monster that creeps up in the
middle of the night in your dreams... you can hide under the bed
sheets all you want, but you know the monster is still out there and
noone can really rescue you.     I have two good female friends (both
survivors) who've told me, independently, that I need to stop trying
to sidestep all the pain I'm feeling.  I somehow thought that it
didn't show that much.  I thank them for pointing it out to me; I
didn't like what I heard, but I knew that they were telling me
because they care and because they've gone through a process on their
own.  I'm *really* terrified... I'm afraid of losing my mind, of
being out of control, of losing my job, of getting so depressed I
won't be able to get out of bed in the morning... I just don't feel
as if I can postpone looking at this stuff any longer, you know what
I mean?

Phoenix
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From: anon-1421@twwells.com (Seeker)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: **spoiler** poem
Date: 12 Jan 93 23:21:11 GMT
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com
X-Email-Accepted: yes

******************  SPOILER  ******************

how I am feeling. 














Soul's Shadow 
-Seeker
1/12/93

rage,
soul's shadow 
holds my hand
blood flowing
hot 
between fingers -

knife
soaks blood
in my hand
blissful lubricant
warm 
waves welcoming -

love
lost soul
heart squeezed 
to climax in 
pain
persistent hunter

life
blood escapes 
down my arm
self-sown
death
pain's grace



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Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: an5055@anon.penet.fi (Dziga)
Subject: Re: Wallow and a story,too
Organization: Anonymous contact service
X-Anonymously-To: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 16:27:04 GMT


In my last post, I said that I was fat and that I thought that
appearances were important.  This is a reply that was posted:


I think society's over interest in appearances is bull.  I am fat and I know  
you can like yourself, be a good person and still be fat.  Appearances
shouldn't matter---the type of person you are SHOULD.  I'd argue it
in the other direction---you have to like yourself INDEPENDENT of your
size.  If you like yourself ONLY because of your size, then something
is wrong.


I agree with what you say, but at the risk of being contrary, I must
respectfully disagree with you on one point.  My appearance matters to
me.  I know that appearance requirements are a specious method of
determining worth.  But the truth is, those requirements remain.  You
are right that the kind of person I am _should_ matter.  But what
matters in the real world is how I look, not how I feel.  

While I realize that I have to like myself regardless of how I look, I
don't believe that I have to like the way I look.  I have one group of
people who tell me that it shouldn't matter and then I have people who
I find attractive telling me of course it matters.


Now, as promised, here is my story about my protector, Mister Bear:

Mister Bear sleeps near my bed.  He was a carnival prize in 1948, when
carnival prizes were made better than they are recently.  He was my
father's teddy bear when he was a little boy.  My relationship with my
father is so complicated that it is hard to separate the abuser from
the owner of the teddy bear.

Mister Bear has an alternate personality that no one but me knows about.
He is quite fearsome when provoked and he watches over me with an
eagle eye. If anyone comes near me when I am sleeping, he attacks them
ferociously with his  tremendous fangs.

It may seem ridiculous to have a stuffed bear to protect you, but I
can prove that it works.  Ever since Mister Bear and I have had one
another, no one has ever bothered me again.  He is a good friend.

Affectionately,

Dziga
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From: anon.6@pax.tpa.com.au
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: To Brian, anon-1217
Date: 13 Jan 1993 02:46:41 +1030
Organization: PAX - Public Access Unix (Adelaide,South Australia) - Anonymous Service
Reply-To: anon.6@pax.tpa.com.au
NNTP-Posting-Host: flash.pax.tpa.com.au




Sorry to use bandwidth for this but:

	Brian, anon-1217,
		I've been sending email to the address you gave
	me, but it's always bounced.  Drop me a line and we'll
	try something else.

	Thanks,

	Adam


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Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: eoliver@ralph.cs.haverford.edu (Erik Oliver)
Subject: Sigh!!!! Urgh!!!
Followup-To: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Keywords: sob sigh memory abuse issues
Organization: Haverford College Computer Science Department
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 21:01:34 GMT

Sigh!

I have been assisting in the organization of a conference, which I
believed was occuring on the weekend surrounding the 20th of February.

Acutally I originally was told it was on the 18-19th but when I realized
that wasn't a weekend, I told people, the speakers, to come on the 20th.

Now, the head of the organizing committee drops by at work today and asks
about housing on the 26-27th of February.  I was completely confused
and after a "fight", she decided I needed to call them back. Frankly, I
am 100% certain I was told the 18-19th.  In fact, the organizer and I
had a lengthy discussion about it because I was afraid originally that I
wouldn't be able to attend the conference because of a test I am
planning to take.  But, that turned out to be on the 9th, not the 19th!
And so I was very happy.

First of all I feel like a complete incompetent fool having to go back
to these people just over a month before the conference and explain that
_I_ got everything wrong.  I also, feel rather hopeless, because this
sense of not being able to trust my memory and having it questioned,
calls back the whole issue of my abuse.

I mean, this is something, I have in writing, somewhere, if I can ever
find the paper, from a month ago, being questioned, now, and I am as
certain that I was told the 18th and 19th as I am about my
feelings/memories of being abused.

IF I can't trust _this_ memory, how can I trust that memory?

Also, I can't deal with the discomfort issue of calling these people
back, I refuse to take the blame.  I didn't fuck up!

(At least I don't think I did.)

-Erik
From: anon-1280@twwells.com (MelancholyChild)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: "Satanic Ritual Abuse" in the media
Date: 11 Jan 93 23:56:00 GMT
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com
X-Email-Accepted: yes

joe@dogface.austin.tx.us (Joe Zitt) writes:

>In article <C0Iors.Mp8@cs.uiuc.edu> kadie@cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie) writes:
>>
>>The lead story on ABC's "Primetime Live" was also on ritual abuse. It
>>was much more skeptical. It pointed out that some psychotherapists
>>were getting rich finding ritual abuse almost everywhere they look.
>>The show also talked to four women who said their psychotherapists had
>>exploited them by feeding them fantasies (while ignoring their
>>truthful accounts of "ordinary" abuse.) Primetime Live also said that
>>an FBI study (dated January 1992?) concluded that there was no
>>evidence of even one ritual-abuse related murder. (Some of the
>>psychotherapists claim that tens or even hundreds of thousands of
>>ritual murders are involved.)
>>
>The front page of the latest New York Times Book Review also has an
>article "Beware the Incest Survivor Machine", which casts doubts on the
>subject and brings up a lot of the "false memory" talk.

This article's title makes me **ANGRY**!! Does this article concede
that there is *any* incest going on or has gone on? Grrrr!!

It sounds like the same sort of article as the one that appeared in
Playboy a month or so ago. It was called "Cry Incest" and the author
(a woman) seemed to be cynical about everything. She seemed to take
great pleasure in making fun of survivors. It was sickening to read.

Sounds like the FMS goons hired themselves some PR people. We'll all
be back under the rug before too long. We'll suffocate there, but
they don't care. All they want to do is protect perps. The backlash
is in its beginning stages. It won't be too much longer before no one
believes *any* of us. The perps will have a ball.

Pardon me while I barf.


MelancholyChild
 



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From: anon.43@pax.tpa.com.au
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: test
Date: 13 Jan 1993 09:28:35 +1030
Organization: PAX - Public Access Unix (Adelaide,South Australia) - Anonymous Service
Reply-To: anon.43@pax.tpa.com.au
NNTP-Posting-Host: flash.pax.tpa.com.au


Next time there's a revolution, get up earlier.  Pavlov


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From: anon.30@pax.tpa.com.au
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: I'm fucking angry
Date: 6 Jan 1993 17:13:04 +1030
Organization: PAX - Public Access Unix (Adelaide,South Australia) - Anonymous Service
Reply-To: anon.30@pax.tpa.com.au
NNTP-Posting-Host: flash.pax.tpa.com.au


wrote a letter to a woman who I was friends with when I was a kid.  She was
a grownup then.  Then realized I don't have her address anymore and got 
kind of upset and angry.  Going to try and find it tomorrow, through information
and if that doesn't work I'll try calling people who might have known her and
might know where she is. 

I think she might be a supportive person and might help me figure out some
of the stuff that happened in my childhood.

then to relieve some of the anger I guess I wrote a letter to another woman --
an ex-lover of my mothers, someone I knew throughout my childhood.  She wrote
 me a few months ago & said she had heard there was some problems in my
relationship with my mom and she said what a cool pair we were and she hopes
we fix it all up soon.  Basically said to give my mom a chance.

I wrote her today & said that I had been abused by my mother and that is why
I have cut her out of my life and that I didn't know what she (this friend)
knew, or who she had heard it from but I would like to know.  I was kind of
angry in the letter and said that her letter represented the kind of response
I was afraid of getting from the lesbian community that I had grown up around,
and that she probably wouldn't have reacted like that if it had been someone
else I said had abused me.  shit shit shit shit shit shit.

sorry.  we feel kind of sucky.

us peoples


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From: anon.33@pax.tpa.com.au
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: poohbear sighs
Date: 10 Jan 1993 15:11:08 +1030
Organization: PAX - Public Access Unix (Adelaide,South Australia) - Anonymous Service
Reply-To: anon.33@pax.tpa.com.au
NNTP-Posting-Host: flash.pax.tpa.com.au



she just cant get it together and get better
or decide she wants to

stopped zoloft so long ago she forgets what color it is
so is yelling
she hates conflict why must people yell and so-s at that
she tries thats the thing she realy does she thinks

spiralling begins
see saw sickness ballast gone
slipping down
 
tears
poohbear


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From: Jean Riseman <agape@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Date: 08 Jan 93 11:25 PST
Subject: Re: "Satanic Ritual Abuse" in the media
Nf-ID: #R:C0Iors.Mp8@cs.uiuc.edu:-873513199:cdp:1519600010:000:1576
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!agape    Jan  8 11:25:00 1993


Hi folks:
I am new to conferencing and do not know how to quote other messages
using these thingies .>>>>. So bear with me.

I am a ritual abuse survivor. I am 55 years old, and have been miserable all 
all my life. I had these weird thoughts and reactions and no
explanations for them. No therapist put thoughts in my head in 
1945, I can tell you. Of course, after all thewse years, I have no "proof"
that the atrocities were committed, exccept for my symptoms and memories.

I figure that this is the only theory that expalins my life. I am
sure that many of the things I remember are not the exact truth...
they are a terrified child's best guess as to what was going on.
And something pretty terrible went on for mew to be like this.I
know Statanic theology like the back of my hand, in very child-like
terms, and I did not read books on black masses etc until the
last 2 years.It's the simplest theory to erxplain my life, and
so I go with it until a better one comes up.

I think that people have a real hard time believing how disgusting humans
can be. We close our eyes to atrocities and hope that we are
better than we really are.Who really dwells on rape and torture
that is done in the name of war or politics or religion, unless they 
themselves were directly invovled? So why should people willingly
believe in child abuse in the name of religion or ideology?

Anyway, whether people believe or not, this is my life, and it
has been a hellish one to live. Please keep an open mind to
the possibility that my suffereing was real.

Peace and love to all.

Jeannie
From: anon-1160@twwells.com (poohbear)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: careening
Date: 12 Jan 93 00:03:09 GMT
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com
X-Email-Accepted: yes


this is what makes me wonder if im bipolar
what is the final step that distinguishing swings from bipolar
i mean this is bad folks
bad bad bad bad
or am i just hiding under another sickness

i really should not be a psych major
i hate knowing all this stuff i just wish i were
some random person living alone in a stone house
with my teddy bears

too hard
god the way i swish back and forth it is getting ridiculous
i am really just sea sick

do antidepressants rweally really matter?  
i tend to think they do, i took myself off mine
a while ago and pissed off my dr and now here i am back in a pit

poohbear



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