HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: nsmca@acad3.alaska.edu
Subject: Re: Artificial Intelligence for Games+
Organization: University of Alaska Fairbanks
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 04:27:56 GMT

In article <Dec30.183952.57153@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU>, hallch@CS.ColoState.EDU (christopher hall) writes:
> Hello all,
> 
>      I was wondering if anyone could point me in the direction of any
> material related to the use of artificial intelligence in computer games.
> Specifically I am searching for material that would be useful in
> controlling computer players in a role-playing game.  I am assuming that I
> will have to program the different possible actions for the computer but I
> would like to know a good and efficient way to go about making the
> computer decide which option would be the 'best'.
> 
>      Please e-mail any responses to me.  If there is enough interest I will
> post a summary in about two weeks.  Also, if you know any other groups that
> I could post this to please write and tell me.
> 
>                                                 Thanks in advance,
> 
>                                                 Chris Hall
> 
> 
> /--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
> |    The world cannot end today because it is tomorrow in Australia...     |
> |                                                                          |
> |       |________          Chris Hall                                      |
> | ||OOO||________>         hallch@handel.colostate.edu                     |
> |       |                                                                  |
> \__________________________________________________________________________/

Maybe trake a look at a local role playing group of characters/people.. Figure
out basic character types, and use these people as your template for computer
AI computer played characters.. Maybe post on cyber.punk or like discussion
groups/feeds.. Might design som ebasic personnality types and try to install
them into your AI matrix...

==
==
Michael Adams alias Ghost Wheel/Morgoth NSMCA@acad3.alaska.edu
From: ewebber@access.digex.com (Eric Sean Webber)
Newsgroups: rec.games.design
Subject: Looking for Game Design Tools
Date: 26 Dec 1992 22:26:02 GMT
Organization: DIVERSIFIED ETC. P.O. BOX 952 Greenbelt, MD 20770 USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: access.digex.com

I am trying to design high quality
arcade like games but am having a hard time finding good software or C
libraries to aid in their creation.  I program PC 80386 and above and have
BORLAND C++ 3.0 and other C compilers.  Any suggestions for Game design C
libraries or systems out there ?  The kinds approximating those used by
the pros.   Thanks in advance, ERIC WEBBER
                             ewebber@access.digex.com


Newsgroups: rec.games.design
From: sos@oz.plymouth.edu (Steffan O'Sullivan)
Subject: Re: net.rpg: magic.ideas
Organization: Plymouth State College - Plymouth, NH.
	<1992Dec21.220530.11549@news.columbia.edu>
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 92 02:23:31 GMT

Just a quick note to thank John Kim for his list of things to consider in
magic systems.  I was pleased to see that I had covered 90% of them in
FUDGE 12/12, and I quickly added the rest - thanks!

-- 
  - Steffan O'Sullivan		         sos@oz.plymouth.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.design
From: nicholas@wam.umd.edu (Ronnie Simonds)
Subject: Re: net.rpg - eliminating mundane magic
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 03:56:48 GMT


Expires: 


Distribution: na 
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park


Well, here's a possibility... the biggest problem being that it dictates a
*BIG* part of your world background.  Still, it would be... interesting.

What if *the PCs* are the ones who discovered magic in the world?

This has a *lot* of fun possibilities.  Firstly, the process of discovering
how to cast spells could form a campaign in itself!  After months (real time-
more like years in a game) of truly heroic effort, the players gain power
literally unimagined in their world... for a little while.  Let em have fun
being the only wizards for a while. :)

Of course, eventually there'll be others who want to take advantage of magic.
Just a few, at first... but before long, either through direct conflict or use
of the same spell, the would-be mages will learn about each other.  The more
the PCs lean on unimaginative spells any Joe could think up, of course, the
quicker they'll learn someone else is dipping into the limited till of spells!

Magic use can be kept to a reasonable level with this system, I think.  You can
literally count all the mages in the universe on your fingers for quite some
time if you play your cards right... so keeping track of *every* spell ever
cast becomes reasonable.

This is the best 'elegant' solution I can come up with, and I rather like the
possibilities.  Everything else I can think of is ugly. :P ("Let's see, there's
a 54% chance some wizard has used a purple fireball using the law of Contagion
before..." *roll*)
From: cj841@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Chris Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.games.design
Subject: ACk
Date: 22 Dec 1992 06:16:37 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


   This group seems overwhelmed with this game, FUDGE.  I will
look at it eventually, but i'm working on my own gaming system
right now.  Actually, I have the system done and am now working
on building a world, well actually a city with concepts of the
world.  (heh, actually just samples of each aspect of the city
that I can think of...)

   I'd like people to help in the designing of Shadake, but I
would preferr to do it mostly by email.  Any offers of
creativity out there?

                                      Melchi the White
                               csteiner@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu
From: v101q4ct@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Brendon M McNamara)
Newsgroups: rec.games.design
Subject: CAD...CAM....CAR?
Date: 26 Dec 92 15:37:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

Computer Aided RPG's? Are there any of them out there? Everyone I know
has a computer now (does that mean a lot of people have computers, or
I need more friends?) but I haven't seen anything along the lines of 
CAR's. I remember SSI released some computer tools years ago for use
with D&D, but those were not very interactive. They seemed to be for 
use in creating your game world. How about some input here...which if
any of these would the RPG players / computer people like to see in a
CAR system:

- character generators
- character managers
- object databases
- object creation tools
- spell databases
- monster databases
- monster managers
- scenario editors
- graphical battle interface (GBI)

I'd like to see them all come to think of it...what do you think?

BMC
Newsgroups: rec.games.design
From: hallch@CS.ColoState.EDU (christopher hall)
Subject: Artificial Intelligence for Games
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 18:39:52 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department

Hello all,

     I was wondering if anyone could point me in the direction of any
material related to the use of artificial intelligence in computer games.
Specifically I am searching for material that would be useful in
controlling computer players in a role-playing game.  I am assuming that I
will have to program the different possible actions for the computer but I
would like to know a good and efficient way to go about making the
computer decide which option would be the 'best'.

     Please e-mail any responses to me.  If there is enough interest I will
post a summary in about two weeks.  Also, if you know any other groups that
I could post this to please write and tell me.

                                                Thanks in advance,

                                                Chris Hall


/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|    The world cannot end today because it is tomorrow in Australia...     |
|                                                                          |
|       |________          Chris Hall                                      |
| ||OOO||________>         hallch@handel.colostate.edu                     |
|       |                                                                  |
\__________________________________________________________________________/
From: hebrais@mirkwood.CAM.ORG (Philippe Hebrais)
Newsgroups: rec.games.design
Subject: Re: Equipment and Dice Systems for FUDGE
Summary: yet another Dice System...
Keywords: FUDGE dice
Date: 23 Dec 92 18:11:29 GMT
Organization: Secte des adorateurs des semiconducteurs
X-Newsreader: MeNews 2.8.0

I'm new on this group and haven't looked at FUDGE close enough
to comment to how to handle tools and other objects.  However,
I can comment on the use of dice.

I suggest using the difference between 2d6.  Use dice of different
colors to preserve the sign (the results are identical to 2d6-7):

diff:   -5   -4   -3   -2   -1    0    1    2    3    4    5
1/36     1    2    3    4    5    6    5    4    3    2    1
%      2.8  5.6  8.3 11.1 13.9 16.7 13.9 11.1  8.3  5.6  2.8

For a slightly more compact curve, count 6 as 1 (i.e. dice
come up 6 and 4, the 6 is replaced by a 1 and the result is
-3):

diff:        -4   -3   -2   -1    0    1    2    3    4
1/36          2    3    4    5    8    5    4    3    2
%           5.6  8.3 11.1 13.9 22.2 13.0 11.1  8.3  5.6

--              ,
      Philippe Hebrais   hebrais@mirkwood.cam.org
   Voix: (514)731-9146   uunet!philmtl!altitude!mirkwood!hebrais
From: cj841@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Chris Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.games.design
Subject: Does anyone know...
Date: 22 Dec 1992 02:52:01 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


   I'm wondering about copyright rules, etc.  Is there a file on
the net I can look at or do I have to find out where to go from
the courthouse?

                                     Melchi the White
                               csteiner@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu
From: ppc1@cec2.wustl.edu (Peter Pui Tak Chiu)
Subject: MAZE
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis MO
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 06:58:09 GMT

hi everyone,

is there a maze algorithm out there?  i don't mean a C program (or some
other language) that generates a maze... just the algorithm...

thanks in advance!

peter
From: nsmca@acad3.alaska.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.design
Subject: Magic, Computers, MUDs, more..+
Date: 2 Jan 93 04:35:24 GMT
Article-I.D.: acad3.1993Jan1.203524.1
Organization: University of Alaska Fairbanks

How about a world where the characters find out how to munipulte the worlds
"source code" and the spells they use are actually modification of the source
code or of minor subreutines.. As the characters gain experiences they get
better at munipulting the source code, or get higher up in the code.. Artifacts
might be of being able to better number crunch the spells so that they get
faster to change the source code..

For ideas on how to write computer games, take a look at a MUD..

Players create there own spells. Hum.. Sounds like a beginning for a VR
universe..


Michael Adams
Alias: Morgoth/Ghost Wheel 
nsmca@acad3.alaska.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.design
From: mathers@sibelius.trl.OZ.AU (Steven Mathers)
Subject: Re: net.rpg - eliminating mundane magic
Reply-To: s.mathers@trl.oz.au
Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne, Australia
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 23:58:25 GMT

In article <22DEC199221221623@gergo.tamu.edu>, carl@gergo.tamu.edu (Carl D. Perkins) writes:
|> >I made another post that I hope clears up this little misunderstanding. To
|>>repeat: it is not the spells that are used up, but rather the spell using the
|> >particular components researched by the Wizard. The Wizard is free to keep
|>>finding new components that can be put together to make a Fireball spell, but
|> >once he has done so, the spell begins losing its effectiveness each time it
|>is used. The spells can have the same name and similar properties, but if they
|>>use different components, they are considered different spells. Finally, the
|> >number of possible components is nearly infinite, but they are difficult to
|>>discover - requiring hefty investments in time and materials. A novice wizard
|> >is unlikely to know more than a few components or spells.

Just talking variations on a theme here.

|> This sounds like a lot of bookkeeping. You have to keep track of every
|> component every wizards has ever researched and how many times it has been
|> used by each. So Clunk the Competent knows Fire Production 117, 221, and 437
|> and has used them 9 times, 5 times, and just 1 time respectively...
|>Now immagine that each wizard knows 3 or more  different components in each of
|> 3 or 4 different component type categories...
|>

Why not just have the player state that 'I am attempting to design spell
X which uses the following components.'  Have a simple method of
determining the 'obscurity' of the spell from the number and rarity of
the combined components, and roll a dice to determine if this particular
spell has been cast before.  The player need only keep track of the
spells his character has attempted to design in a particular scenario.
It would be pointless to try and bookkeep between different scenarios.

Newsgroups: rec.games.design
From: hackett@gaul.csd.uwo.ca (Mike Hackett)
Subject: Re: CAD...CAM....CAR?
Organization: Computer Science Dept., Univ. of Western Ontario, London, Canada
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 22:59:26 GMT

In article <BzvI25.JvL@acsu.buffalo.edu> v101q4ct@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Brendon M McNamara) writes:
>- character generators
>- character managers
>- object databases
>- object creation tools
>- spell databases
>- monster databases
>- monster managers
>- scenario editors
>- graphical battle interface (GBI)
>
>I'd like to see them all come to think of it...what do you think?

All of the above and more will be included in my Game Master's assistant
program (no official title - working name is Fates) that I have been
developing in my head for many years, and I've finally actually started
working on it for real.  It will be GUI based, and very easy to use, but
very powerful (don't they all *say* that).  I am developing it on the
Apple IIgs and will be porting it to at least the Mac and to Windows.
I expect that several other versions would come soon after if it is
successful.  Unfortunately, I've had to pretty much put it on hold until
May when I'm finished university and can take up software development
full time.

OK, so all I've told you is that I am working on some supposedly great
program which is entirely vapourware at this point.  Yes, that's true.
But the point of my post is to let you know that, yes, someone has been
thinking about such a project, and very carefully at that.  Also, I
too would like to hear what everyone would like to see in a program
like this.  I know pretty much what I wwant out of it, but I may have
forgotten something or not given something enough thought.  I don't have
time right now to go into everything I have planned for the program,
but I will be watching this thread to see what comes of it.  Let's
hear from you all.

Thanks for listening.


=====================================================================
Mike Hackett                  | "She wouldn't make love,
<hackett@gaul.csd.uwo.ca>     |  but she could make good sandwich"
Honors Computer Science IV    | -Ian Anderson, "Budapest"
University of Western Ontario |                - _Crest of a Knave_
Newsgroups: rec.games.design
From: hall@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Robert J. Hall)
Subject: Re: net.rpg - eliminating mundane magic
Organization: Boeing
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 20:17:12 GMT

 > Could have a bizaare effect on the type of magic cast in a world where
 > magic works as described above.  Every mage would constantly be trying
 > to come up with new spells, as old ones are used up.  All the obvious
 > spells would have been used up ages ago, so magic would be pretty weird.
 > Forget your average fireball spell.  That went ages ago.  These days
 > people cast 'poison confetti rain' spells etc...

I made another post that I hope clears up this little misunderstanding. To
repeat: it is not the spells that are used up, but rather the spell using the
particular components researched by the Wizard. The Wizard is free to keep
finding new components that can be put together to make a Fireball spell, but
once he has done so, the spell begins losing its effectiveness each time it
is used. The spells can have the same name and similar properties, but if they
use different components, they are considered different spells. Finally, the
number of possible components is nearly infinite, but they are difficult to
discover - requiring hefty investments in time and materials. A novice wizard
is unlikely to know more than a few components or spells.
 
-- 
 Bob Hall                   |  if [ -bs message ]; then
 Boeing Computer Services   |      mv message /compost/heap/$$
 root@chicken.ca.boeing.com |  fi
Newsgroups: rec.games.design
From: daum@ee.ualberta.ca (Tanya Louise Daum)
Subject: Re: Magic, Computers, MUDs, more..+
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 08:49:47 GMT

nsmca@acad3.alaska.edu writes:

>How about a world where the characters find out how to munipulte the worlds
>"source code" and the spells they use are actually modification of the source
>code or of minor subreutines.. As the characters gain experiences they get
>better at munipulting the source code, or get higher up in the code.. Artifacts
>might be of being able to better number crunch the spells so that they get
>faster to change the source code..

	While the code produced is not exactly a spell as a such, the
LambdaMOO server (Example at lambda.parc.xerox.com 8888) has an interactive
object oriented programming language in which the entire game database
(everything from the generic room class to the generic object class,
including basic commands like "Say" or "look") has been written in an object
oriented language called MOO .. It's quite fascinating, and most anybody can
get programmer capabilities on LambdaMOO.  Give it a try.

>For ideas on how to write computer games, take a look at a MUD..

	Indeed!  And I think LambdaMOO is one of the best muds out there,
especially as far as programming goes.  It certainly slaughters all the
popular systems out there like DikuMUD or Tiny* .

>Players create there own spells. Hum.. Sounds like a beginning for a VR
>universe..

And that is how it has turned out to be...
-- 
"And men are men who till the land, and women are women who weave, fifty men
 own the lemon grove, and no man is a slave." -- Herbert Read

Comrade @ LambdaMOO (telnet lambda.parc.xerox.com 8888) daum@bode.ualberta.ca
Newsgroups: rec.games.design
From: mathers@sibelius.trl.OZ.AU (Steven Mathers)
Subject: net.rpg:  world design
Reply-To: s.mathers@trl.oz.au
Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne, Australia
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 00:16:04 GMT

I am getting bored with talk of mechanics.  I think mechanics are of
secondary importance when designing a RPG, and I think you would
get a better and more consistent set of mechanics if you worried
about them only after you have a reasonable idea of where the game
will take place and what the world is like. (world=universe)

Besides, a generic RPG game called GURPS is already been done, and is on
the market and doing just fine thanks.

I don't want to kill off the mechanics discussion, because some good
ideas have come from it.  I just want to open another discussion on
world design, which I think will be more interesting and yield even
more interesting ideas.  Having said that...

Here is a general outline of a world I have been tinkering with for a
long while.  It is a fantasy world with the usual low mundane technology
(ie: swords & crossbows etc...), but the roll high-technology has in
our world is replaced by what is called magic.  I like the idea of magic
being based in a lot of ways on natural talent.  ie: there are a lot 
of OK magicians out there, and a lot of people have tinkered with
magic, but there are only a few magicians who have achieved excellence.
Think of it in the same vein as playing an instrument.  Say guitar.
Lots of us have mucked about with a guitar at some stage or another,
and a lot have given up because it was too hard, or we just didnt have
the knack.  Then there are the few such as Jimi Hendrix...the 'wizards'


Anyway, the centre of this world is a huge city.  I am influenced
heavilly in this respect by Byzantium.  A large fabulous city, famous
for its culture, high arts etc.. surrounded by not so fabulous, and
posibly hostile territories and rival empires.

I wont go any further, or nobody will read a huge post, so thats just
a few fragments of some ideas.
From: schwarts@cps.msu.edu (Steven Eric Schwartz)
Newsgroups: rec.games.design
Subject: FUDGE Levels
Date: 22 Dec 92 07:51:28 GMT
Reply-To: schwarts@cps.msu.edu (Steven Eric Schwartz)
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: atlantic.cps.msu.edu
Originator: schwarts@atlantic.cps.msu.edu

>Terrible: Very Hurt, Incapacitated, Near Death
>Poor: Hurt, Incapacitated, Near Death
>Mediocre: Hurt, Very Hurt, Incapacitated, Near Death
>Fair: Scratch, Hurt, Very Hurt, Incapacitated, Near Death
>Good: Scratch, Hurt, Hurt, Very Hurt, Incapacitated, Near Death
>Great: Scratch, Scratch, Hurt, Hurt, Very Hurt, Incapacitated, Near
>   Death
>Superb: Scratch, Scratch, Hurt, Hurt, Very Hurt, Very Hurt,
>   Incapacitated, Near Death

Wouldn't it be more intuitive/easier to remember if the backwards progression
went like:

        Superb: Sc, Sc, H, H, VH, VH, In, ND
        Great:  Sc, Sc, H, H, VH,     In, ND    [remove a VH]
        Good:   Sc, Sc, H,    VH,     In, ND    [remove an H]
        Fair:   Sc,     H,    VH,     In, ND    [remove a Sc]

This makes each level going down one less duplicate level than the one
after it.

(Am I making sense?)



-- 
Steven Eric Schwartz            "It's not safe out here. It's wonderous, with
(schwarts@cps.msu.edu)           treasures to satiate desires both subtle and
125 East Wilson Hall, MSU        gross.  But it's not for the timid."
East Lansing, Michigan  48825                           - Q, "Q Who"
Newsgroups: rec.games.design
From: nicholso@pioneer.arc.nasa.gov (Melvin H. Nicholson YBH)
Subject: Re: defects in abstract games
Organization: NASA Ames Res. Ctr. Mtn Vw CA 94035
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 22:45:23 GMT

I'll probably regret entering this discussion, but I do have a candidate
for a 'defect free' game.  First my characterization of what constitutes
'defect free' status.

1: state should be limited to position of pieces on the board and whose
turn it is, with no reference to 'previous board positions' and other
phenominon which must be tracked

2: the rules should not admit special cases and be symmetric to all
peices and positions

3: the rules should be stable in a concise way, and not too numerous

While I agree that defect free status isn't all that wonderful of a
thing (as someone pointed out, tic-tac-toe is quite 'defect free' in
this since, but in general is a lousy game), I do sympathise with the
aesthetic quality the original author was trying to put his finger on.

The only interesting games (above the tic-tac-toe level of complexity)
which I can think of the meet this criterion are Abalone, Reversi, and
Dots.  There has been enough talk about the games that I don't feel I
need to repeat their rules, but their simple accounting of score and
very simple rules which belie their complexity is quite inspiring.

Mel