HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kph@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Kevin P. Hamilton)
Subject: Vienna Interlude
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 22:36:22 GMT

I was wondering if anyone has tried Austrian
Airlines' "Vienna Interlude" package.
According to a near-perennial ad in the Sunday NY Times
it provides airfare from NY and a hotel for
3 nights for $580. per person.

I'd be grateful to hear from anyone with experience
with this package or who has information on any other 
similar Austrian Airlines offer.   

Kevin Hamilton
kph@phoenix.princeton.edu



Newsgroups: rec.travel
From: alan@elroy.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Alan S. Mazer)
Newsgroups: rec.travel
Subject: Re: Princess Cruise to Mexico
Date: 22 Jan 1993 19:56:06 GMT
Organization: Image Analysis Systems Group, JPL
NNTP-Posting-Host: cogswell.jpl.nasa.gov

In article <C18DK0.EIA@icon.rose.hp.com> cmoore@rose.hp.com writes:
>So, I guess in summary, if you're going cruising to enjoy the cruise, it's
>great.  If you are going to really see Mexico you're better off going some
>other way.

I agree.  I went to Alaska on the ferry and was in towns when the cruise ships
pulled in and left.  The towns immediately become a mess of people with cameras
all crowding into the gift shops.  Just as quickly everything's back to normal.
I talked to locals about this and they seem to perceive it as a mixed blessing.
I think I got a much better feel for the place itself and saved a ton of money.
It may be coincidental, but people were incredibly friendly, especially when
they saw my backpack; I got the feeling that they almost resented the cruise
takers.
-- 
 
-- Alan                        # Mountain Dew and doughnuts...
   ..!ames!elroy!alan          # because breakfast is the most important meal
   alan@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov     # of the day.
From: yan-dicky@cs.yale.edu (Dicky Yan)
Newsgroups: rec.travel
Subject: Re: Need Info On Seattle to Vancouver
Date: 28 Jan 1993 14:02:07 -0500
Organization: Yale University Computer Science Dept., New Haven, CT 06520-2158
NNTP-Posting-Host: rhino.zoo.cs.yale.edu

In article <1993Jan28.171030.17320@ntmtv> ahmedss@ntmtv.UUCP (Syed Ahmed) writes:
>
>Hi, I am planning a trip to Vancouver from San Jose, Ca, like this:
>	San Jose to Seattle by Air( Probably Morris Air),
>	Seattle to Vancouver by Car( Rented ).
>Has anybody out there done it already, if yes then share your experience !
>I also am curious about taking a rented car to Vancouver, Any Problems ?
>
>ThanX Ahead.
>
>Syed Ahmed:
>Internet: ntmtv!ahmedss@ames.arc.nasa.gov

Yes, my family did (nearly) the same thing last Summer. (We were going to
Victoria instead of Vancouver.) There is no problem bringing the rental
car over the border. All the car rental companies I called said the same
thing. Just remember to mention this when you make the reservation and
when you collect the car. They may give you a sticker or something to
certify that they have authorized you bringing the car over. I was told
that they actually expect a lot of people bringing the car over the border.

We did it on a Sunday morning and it was okay. I think Sunday afternoon may
be a busy time, when people are going home through the border. Try to
aovid those times. (Similarly, when the weekend starts.)

Remmeber that the tax you pay for things purchased in Canada and brought
back to the US can be claimed. I believe the same is true for tax paid
for accommodation in Canada. You will need, besides the recipt, the
account number (not sure what exactly it is called) of the company where
you made your purchase. (That number is not necessarily on the recipt.
It happened to me the recipt I got from Eaton did not have that number.)
When you come back to the US from Canada, there is
a little house (white in color) where you can do the claim. You can use
the money claimed to purchase things there. (I guess you can cash it too.)
You will need to fill in a form listing the taxed amount ... etc. It will mean
something like 7% (?) of the money you have spent.    


Dicky.
Newsgroups: rec.travel
From: meryem@core.rose.hp.com (Meryem Primmer)
Subject: Re: INFORMATION REQUEST
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 18:21:39 GMT
Organization: East of the Sun & West of the Moon
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.8 PL6]

: At least she confined it to the world!
: --

This reminds me of a little boy who was asked what he planned to do
when he grew up.  His answer was: "First I'm going to go to the moon,
then, I'm going to travel."

--
Regards,
Meryem Primmer
Newsgroups: rec.travel
From: ah505@yfn.ysu.edu (Brian Quinby)
Subject: Re: Language problem in Europe
Organization: Youngstown State/Youngstown Free-Net
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 06:09:38 GMT


TO> but they're friendly most of the time. Just be prepared to meet some
TO> arrogance in Paris, though..

Be prepared for gypsy children. They are very accomplished at removing
your valuables and escaping quickly. When there last, I finally carried a
rolled up newspaper in order to swat them when it bacame obvious what
they were trying to do.

		Brian

Newsgroups: rec.travel
From: gilbert@esd.dl.nec.com (Russell Gilbert)
Subject: Re: How long to stay in HongKong/Bangkok/Singapore ?
Organization: NEC America, Engineering & Support
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 02:09:36 GMT

Ashesh Parekh (parekh@cis.ohio-state.edu) wrote:
> In article <1993Jan26.152336.23181@delos.stgt.sub.org> stefanb@delos.stgt.sub.org (Stefan Bechtold) writes:
> >
> >I'm planning to do a trip to Australia in Summer 93. I want to see
> >at least two of those 3 cities mentioned in the Subject (Hong Kong,
> >Bangkok, Singapore). Which city would you recommand ?
> >
> >How long should I stay in those cities ?
> >

> I have seen Singapore and Bangkok.  Out of those two I'd most certainly
> pick Singapore...

I've been to all three...
Hong Kong is fast-paced, and there's tons of stuff to see.  Every time you
turn around there's something to take a picture of.  It's also more expensive
though, and be prepared for tight quarters, especially in hostels.  In
Bangkok, there's also stuff to see, but I was more interested in going north
to the hills for trekking, or south to the fantastic beaches.  Be prepared
for more of the whole "haggling/stealing/dirtier" mode in Bangkok.  Singapore
is known for being extra clean, and there's stuff to see there also.  It's a
great place for electronics shopping, and I was there for Christmas and New
Year's and had a great time.

Overall, if you've just got time for the cities themselves, I'd say Hong Kong
and Singapore (in that order).  If you've got time, why not do all three?  I
flew HK to Singapore, then took trains and buses up through Malaysia and
Thailand, stopping at a few beaches on the way up to Bangkok, then a train up
to Chiang Mai for trekking.

A few days in the major cities is probably enough.  But spend the rest of the
time travelling between them, seeing places like Kuala Lumpur in Malaysia, etc.

S.E. Asia is a great place... Most people are really surprised by how much they
like it.  I'd try to see as much as possible.

Russell     (gilbert@esd.dl.nec.com)
Newsgroups: rec.travel
From: laura@nynexst.com (Laura Elias)
Subject: B&B in  Hawaii
Reply-To: laura@nynexst.com
Organization: NYNEX Science & Technology, Inc
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 18:09:01 GMT

I am considering using Bed & Breakfasts on the island of Hawaii.  
If you've tried this, how did it go?
---
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Laura Elias     <laura@nynexst.com>       NYNEX Science & Technology Inc.
    laura@nynexst.com                         Data & Information Services   
    voice: (914) 644-2974                     500 Westchester Avenue
    fax:   (914) 644-2301                     White Plains, NY  10604
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: cervi@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Mark Cervi)
Newsgroups: rec.travel
Subject: Barbados recommendations wanted
Date: 26 Jan 93 19:04:57 GMT
Organization: NSWC, Carderock Division, Annapolis, MD, USA

I'm planning a trip to Barbados in Feb and would like any recommendations
concerning places to go or things to see on the island.  I have lodging
in Maxwell, between the Airport and Bridgetown.

Also, any favorite restaurants/bars for the evening scene.

Thanks, Mark
-- 
	Mark Cervi, CARDEROCKDIV, NSWC Code 2752, Annapolis, MD  21402
		   cervi@oasys.dt.navy.mil, (w) 410-267-2147
From: Jay_Tobias@taligent.com (Jay Tobias)
Newsgroups: rec.travel
Subject: Miles & Charge Cards
Date: 26 Jan 93 18:56:30 GMT
Article-I.D.: jay-tobi.Jay_Tobias-260193105538
Followup-To: rec.travel
Organization: Taligent

What charge cards are available that offer free miles with the airlines? 
So far I've discovered two, but would like to form a complete list.  I'll
summarize and post to the group if desired.  If this information has
already been gathered, would someone please send it to me?  

Citibank Visa		$50/yr.	19.8%	American Airlines
Nationwide Visa	$35/yr.	?%	US Air
From: smezias@rnd.GBA.NYU.EDU (Stephen J. Mezias)
Newsgroups: rec.travel
Subject: Re: Miles & Charge Cards
Date: 27 Jan 93 14:20:57 GMT
Organization: NYU Stern School of Business

United Mileage Plus uses First Bank.  I have found them to be
tolerable, but do not plan to renew my card.

Diner's Club and American Express both offer a program where you can
apply the miles to any major frequent flier program.  I know American
Express requires an additional fee and a 5000 minimum.  Diner's Club
has no fee, a 3000 mile bonus, and a 1000 minimum.

From: tgg@otter.hpl.hp.com (Tom Gardner)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 16:39:50 GMT
Subject: Re: Need Info on Iceland
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Bristol, UK.
Newsgroups: rec.travel

My suggestion: take a package holiday in a four wheel drive coach in which the
overnight accomodation is either tents or the camping-huts.

The minimum reasonable time to go from Reykjavik, round the south of the island,the east of the island, then back across the centre is 2 weeks, and 3 weeks is
preferable. 

Try and see: Thingvellir, Thorsmork, Skaftafell, Asbergi/Jokulskarlon, Myvatn
in addition to the places you mentioned.
From: cstadgs@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Mr R J Tinsley)
Newsgroups: rec.travel
Subject: Re: Peru and Bolivia info wanted
Date: 21 Jan 1993 13:28:42 -0000
Organization: Computing Services, University of Warwick, UK
NNTP-Posting-Host: clover.csv.warwick.ac.uk

In article <35536@rnd.GBA.NYU.EDU> smezias@rnd.GBA.NYU.EDU (Stephen J. Mezias) writes:
>The most helpful thing you can do for your friends is tell them not to
>leave without the South American Handbook.  Updated every year, it is
>far better than standard tour guides.  I used this book in both Peru
>and Bolivia and found it invaluable.

Sounds useful - but who publishes it?
Does anyone know if it's available on this side of the Atlantic?

-Bob
From: mike@skfgvc.pyatigorsk.su (Abramenko Mike)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Welcome to Russia,Elbrus from the North, wild nature
Date: 21 Jan 93 14:35:25 GMT
Reply-To: mike@skfgvc.pyatigorsk.su
Organization: unknown


                       Welcome to Russia!
   Why not  try Mt Elbrus right away?  If you want to see at your
feet the Caucasus, the 1100 km long mountain system, this is what
you  need.  The "Elbrus-from-the-North" Firm offers you an ascent
of the highest mountain in Europe. You'll follow the route of the
first  Russian expedition to climb Mt Elbrus from the North,  led
by Gen.  Emmanuel in 1829.  Part of the route coincides with  the
Ancient  Silk  Road  that connected China with the Mediterranean,
and which was travelled in the later middle ages by  Marco  Polo.
You'll  see the unique ecologically perfect region of the Northen
part of the Caucasus and will witness the magnificent beaty of Mt
Elbrus.
   The region is a  nature  reserve;  there  are  practically  no
holiday-makers or chance visitors, nature has been left untouched
here.
                     PROGRAMME OF THE ASCENT
   Day 1:  Arrival to the Mineralny Vody's   airport.   30-minute
           bus-ride   to   the   neighbouring   spa   Pyatigorsk.
           Accommodation in the best-quality sanitariums.
   Day 2:  Flight from  Mineralny  Vody to the base camp (2800 m)
           on the northen slopes  of  Mt  Elbbrus.  Walk  to  the
           Refuge Hut (3900 m).
   Day 3:  Acclimatisation   outings  to  the  Valley  of  Stone
           Mushrooms, to the hot and cold mineral springs, alpine
           skiing.
   Day 4:  Acclimatisation ascent to the Lentz Rocks (  5000  m).
           Alpine skiing.
   Day 5:  Skiing. Rest day.
   Day 6:  Ascent of one (or both) of the two summits of Mt Elbrus
           (5642 m and 5621 m). Descent to the Hut.
   Day 7:  Flight back to Mineralny Vody and Pyatigorsk.
   Days 8-9: Reserve days to make up for any delays caused by bad
           weather. Weather permitting,  trips to the famous stud
           - farms, sightseeing in Pyatigorsk and nearby spas.
   The groups are provided with porters,  interpretes and medical
aids. This route to Mt Elbrus from the North is safest.  The firm
guarantees the ascent of Mt Elbrus.
   For further   information   contact  please:  357500,  Russia,
Stavropol region, Pyatigorsk city, post box 165.
   E-mail: zevs@raduga.pyatigorsk.su
From: dave@badger.uk.sun.com (David Herring - Sun UK - Tech Support)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: London climbing wall?
Date: 12 Jan 1993 16:11:09 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Distribution: world
Reply-To: dave@badger.uk.sun.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: badger.uk.sun.com


The Brunnel University has a good climbing wall, that 
will be within a few miles of where you're staying. 

Also, the sobell sports center in north London has a 
good climbing wall, although I've never been on it.

If you want to travel 20 miles south, you're welcome 
to go on my local climbing wall at Wellington College, 
Crowthorne, Berks. Ring me on (0344) 773513 if needing 
directions to any of these, when you're over here.

---
David Herring - UKAC.

Newsgroups: rec.climbing,rec.backcountry
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: What is sport? (was: A-word)
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 03:26:23 GMT

>>Hemmingway defined sport as an activity that could kill you.  Wayne
>>Trzyna defines sport as an activity that is very physical.  How do

In article <24764@hacgate.SCG.HAC.COM> tucker@shiva.UUCP (George Tucker)
writes:
>How about war?
Long interesting simile comparing sport and war.

Hi George,
Which Division of HAC is it you work for?
You know, you pick up a hammer, and everything, all of a sudden starts to
look like a nail.  It's something I've noticed about the defense
contractors starting to appear on the net (nothing personal, but
interesting, their political conservatism, that is).
Again this gets us back to the film Hearts and Minds with the American
football plays interspersed with scenes of military officers.

Another person asked me about military mountaineering.  My nose is no
cleaner than George's, whereas I might be more liberal, I have on occasion
consulted to the DoD: the 7th Infantry Divison (Light), the USMC, and
one agency which is best not discussed.  Operational aspects are not
for public discussion, you can write the Pentagon and get "interesting
things."  Basically, military mountaineering can be broken into three
topic areas:

	1) Historical military mountaineering (pre-WW-II)
		Ancient Greece to WW I
	2) WW-II: ski and mountain troops, Finland, USSR, US 10th Mtn. Div.
		Italy and Alaska campaigns (mistakes), Norway (irregulars),
		England, Italy, Japan and German (Nazi) mountain troops.
		The Swiss and Austrians.
	3) Post-WWII: Korea (not), and the Defense of Europe (role in
		Air-Land Battle doctrine), Afganistan, Soviet and Chinese
		mountain force, etc.

The latter isn't all history (except Korea where we didn't send mountain
troops).  A lot of this is theoretical (from the American perspective).
And a lot of it bears no resemblence WWII movies (as Iraq could show you).

P.S. Rob Sharpe, if you are reading this, I am at LLNL tomorrow.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: jmorton@euler.Berkeley.EDU (John Morton)
Subject: Re: rappel accidents
Organization: University of California at Berkeley
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 18:20:54 GMT

In article <1993Jan26.160410.23603@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca> ejensen@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Erik Jensen) writes:

[Erik's message was in the header.  It mentioned the rappeling death
of a B.C. climber who has a memorial on the Squamish Apron.]

This was Jim Baldwin, of Prince Rupert, B.C.  He was rappeling the
E. Face of Washington Column with John Evans, about 1966 I guess.
It was pretty much dark when Baldwin went down ahead of Evans to
land at a large ledge maybe 300' from the ground.  He is
thought to have lost his balance when getting out of rappel, since
the ledge slopes awkwardly.  Gossip had it that he was careless
and preoccupied because of the failure of a romantic relationship.

Baldwin's claim to fame is his career of climbs with Ed Cooper,
which included the Grand Wall at Squamish (do I have the name right?).
They were the first outsiders to put up a big wall in Yosemite,
the Dihedral Wall, in about 1964.  The Valley types found Cooper
hard to handle, with his ambitious and commercial approach to
climbing.  However Baldwin fit right in and was well liked and
greatly missed.

John Morton					University of California
jmorton@euler.berkeley.edu			Mechanical Engineering
{decvax,cbosgd}!ucbvax!euler!jmorton		Machine Shop
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: awpg1@cl.cam.ac.uk (A.W.P. Guy)
Subject: Re: Guide for climbing near Chamonix
Organization: U of Cambridge, England
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 00:10:29 GMT

I used the Apline Club guides this summer - Mont Blanc vol 1 && II.
(Vol 1 covers more of the Chamonix side of things.) In general I
found the guides good, although the descriptions of the normal route
on Peigne did not seem to agree with reality - most routes are on topos
or photos and this helps.

[the normal route on Peigne seems to be different in every guide book
I have seen - anyone cast any light on this?]

Andy.
From: ian@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Ian M Glazer)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: RE Getting over the edge...
Date: 21 Jan 93 20:55:45 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

Working at an outdoor school which teaches climbing, I have had to, numerous times, rap down to check the anchor (not my favorite thing to do) or check for bee's nests and other critters. I have found a method that works for me.  I take a sewn sling and make an auto-block knot below my tuber.  I clip the knot on to the biner that my tuber is clipped to.  I then downclimb (gulp) and end up so that my weight is on the anchor.  I then rap down safely.  I have found that lighter people need to push the autoblo


ck knot down as they go. Sure the knot does make for a much slower ride, but it is much safer than just simply clipping in and jumping.


*********************************************************
Ian Glazer	ian@eniac.seas.upenn.edu		*
"Sometimes there is strength and sometimes weakness;	*
Sometimes one is up and sometimes one is down." Lao Tzu	*
*********************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: Is Climbing An Individual Sport?
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 22:47:48 GMT

>>In article <1993Jan15.073816.27555@pdxsq1.nerco.com>
ledererc@pdxsq1.nerco.com (Corey Lederer (6471) ) writes:
>>>Is climbing an individual sport with you against yourself, or is it a team
>>>sport with you and your partner in a tandem effort to help each other reach
>>>the top?

What about climbs which don't have "tops?"

>In article <1993Jan15.162029.16986@mcnc.org> ekp@mcnc.org
(Edward Pavelchek) writes:
>>It depends. A day sport cragging is pretty much all for myself, and
>>against my companions.  An all day (or my only multi-day) climb is team
>>all the way.  Aint this normal?

In article <1993Jan25.182105.26876@Cadence.COM> bruceg@Cadence.COM
(Bruce Gustifson) writes:
>  To be competetive with your companions is understandable, but
>I don't think it is preferable (at least for me). Then someone
>has to "lose". If I want that, I'll play tennis or something. No 
>doubt some of you think this is because I must "lose" at climbing
>alot to feel this way. This is not true. I just feel that the most
>important thing for me in climbing is to have fun. Without that
>I would stop doing it.

I like this.  Cuz' I'm not interested in the tennis or the
something else.  I think that's why a lot of us got into climbing,
to get away from competition (nerds and geeks, and it has always been
that way), and I think that a lot of the competition comes from the not quite
there jocks who didn't quite make it in football, baseball, soccer,
etc. team sports roaming around for other things to do.  Life is
competitive enough as it is.  And I think that's why climbing is nerd/geek
fun.  You might have some competition.  You only really "lose" when you die.
If we did well in those sports, we would not have time for or be in
climbing.

Just watching the GBytes flow...

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Associate Editor, Software and Publication Reviews
  Scientific Programming
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Seeking Books to buy:	Bongard, Pattern Recognition
			3 down 1 to go.
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: morrison@cup.hp.com (Bobbie_Morrison)
Subject: Re: Mickey's Beach rockfall
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 20:01:50 GMT
Distribution: ba
Organization: Hewlett-Packard
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.8 PL6]

Clint Cummins (clint@leland.Stanford.EDU) wrote:
: Recently a large piece of the main Mickey's Beach boulder fell off,
: eliminating several of the best Bay Area testpieces.  The Beach Crack
: is now the "Beach Arete"; Plate-o-Shrimp, Flounder, and Scorpio are also
: gone.  I have waited for 3 independent confirmations of this, so you can
: be assured it is accurate.  A sad loss for local hardfolk, but just
: another day for the restless sea.
: 
: Clint Cummins

Wow.  So what does the knew face (?) look like.  Any knew route 
possibilities?    ;-) ;-)

--Bobbie

Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: stephenm@spock.retix.com (Stephen McMullan)
Subject: Re: Climbing trip to somewhere warm?
Organization: Retix, Santa Monica CA
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 10:46:00 GMT

In article <1iuquaINNchc@uk-news.uk.sun.com> dave@badger.uk.sun.com writes:
>
>I'm panning a trip to Spain for a 
>weeks climbing in March. Do you 
>need to hire a car to get from 
>Benidorm to the crags ? 
>
>What about camping out bt the crags.
>
>Any guide books you want to sell ?
>
>---
>David Herring - UKAC.
>


All the crags around the Benidorm area require a car to get to with
the exception of Penon de Ifach if you base yourself in Calpe to the
north of Benidorm. There may be a rail link between Calpe & Benidorm,
I'm not sure. I believe there are some campsites in Calpe.

I reckon camping would be impossible at Toix ( lots of big houses in
the way ) and Mascarat ( just off a main road ). Theres a great crag
near Gandia to the north of Calpe ( see Chris Craggs book for
directions ) but that seems to be surrounded by orange & lemon groves.

Check out Sella inland from Benidorm, topos available in Calpe at some
bar. I believe it may be mentioned in a new guidebook titled Calpe.

Sella & Gandia are great sports crags while the Penon has good long
middle grade routes with the odd bit of aid, rocks a bit chossy -
hardhat territory & bring your friends/chocks.

Chulila further north again is supposed to be good also but I didn't
get there. Toix is good for a lazy afternoon. Mascarat looks great but
I didn't get any climbing done there

						Stephen McMullan
						Retix Ireland
						stephenm@rtxirl.ie