HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kdarling@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling)
Subject: Re: I DID giev up on the Amiga!
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 13:43:06 GMT

gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block) writes:
>skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls) writes:
>> Whoops!  I forgot the ECS!  How ignorant of me to overlook such an
>> innovative chipset!  [...]
> 
>Ooh, for a person who knows not what he says, you're really clueless.
>
>First, ECS.  That's a damned interesting design.  How many chipsets do
>you know of conform to BOTH NTSC and PAL, are programmable, output in
>NTSC and PAL output sizes, support 15.75 AND 31.5khz output
>frequencies, offer video-based things like overscan, support 1-2mb of
>memory that, unlike available PC cards, can be used both to store
>code in as WELL as graphic and audio data, can change modes and
>palettes during display time on the fly, offer 8 hardware sprites,
>handle complex bitblts (the REAL stuff), make full use of DMA, and can
>handle display frequenceies from 25hz and up?
 
Oh, you mean something like the SCC66470B Video and System Controller from
Signetics?  It, a 680x0, and a handful of glue/RAM chips makes a system.
It has NTSC/PAL, overscan, DMA mode changing, realtime color RLE decoder,
support for coprocessor, external sync, even a frame-grabbing mode.

The only thing it doesn't have is sprites or DMA for its single-cycle
multipixel logic unit.  But then again, it does 8-bits/pixel in lores mode
and has more cpu access slots than 1-bit mode on the Amiga.  You can also
use dual-port video RAM on it if you're *really* into access time.  Oh yeah,
it's low power CMOS and costs ~$15 even in low quantities.  It's years old.

CD-I players use two of these jewels sync'd to each other, with a back end
processor to handle copper-like data for hardware masking, transparency,
chromakey, DYUV and 15-bit/pixel combined mode.

I'm sure there must other such chips as well.  Perhaps from VLSI?  Dunno.

>Hopefully by now you've learned something.
>
>(: (: (: (: Have you overdosed on smileys today?  Why NOT!?! :) :) :) :) :)

:-)  kevin <kdarling@catt.ncsu.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: mjl@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Maurice J. LeBrun)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Obituary [Amiga's] in Silicon Valley newspaper
Date: 21 Jul 92 07:28:23 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

(somebody kick me; I can't really be posting to .advocacy..)

In article <1992Jul20.100429.3688@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au> davidme@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au (David Meiklejohn) writes:
>But, I just haven't ever come across anything worth giving up the Amiga for.  I
>get thoroughly sick and tired of computers at work, but I still get a real buzz
>out of using my Amiga at home.  I'd really like to get that from another
>system.  When I find an Amiga substitute, I'll be sure to let you know.  At the
>moment, I'm not real happy, but there's no place else to go.

Me too.  A fellow A3000 owner and I were discussing this at a scientific
meeting a while back.  Although we weren't happy with the lack of direction
from Commodore and the slow technological progress of the Amiga, if we had
to do it over again we still would buy the A3000.. 

One of the things that bothers me about other systems is how quickly
hardware is obsoleted.  Some people have praised the number of new systems
introduced by say, Apple.  It seems to me it is much more important to come
out with fewer, better designed systems.  Some of Apple's offerings appear
to be simply corrections for previous design flaws.  And in the end the
user with the limited wallet suffers (i.e. everyone except these braindead
computer journalists who get their systems for free).

How long do most people on a limited budget own their computers?  For me, a
lifetime of at least 5 years and preferably longer is necessary.  My A1000
served me well for 5 years or so, although it looked pretty odd with all
the boxes hanging off the side :-).  I might be using it still if CBM
hadn't "killed" it (necessary evil).  My A3000 is now almost 2 years old,
and with its much greater expandability, I see it as serving my needs for
much longer, maybe upwards of 10 years. 

If I've got money burning a hole in my pocket, I'd rather spend it
on new CD's..

Maurice LeBrun    mjl@fusion.ph.utexas.edu
Institute for Fusion Studies, University of Texas at Austin
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: catapcnl@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Chris Lawrence)
Subject: Re: I DID giev up on the Amiga!
Organization: Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 00:36:12 GMT

Distribution: World

In article <1992Jul23.162026.7775@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N  
Barrett) writes:
:In article <1992Jul23.060305.23392@uwm.edu> gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R  
Block) writes:
:>Advertising I'll give you.  R&D I won't.  I happen to think the R&D
:>guys do a really good job.  They do deserve a raise of a few million
:>dollars, though.  ;)
:
[gigabytes of stuff deleted]
:
:   I've been waiting for SEVEN YEARS.  *TODAY* is the SEVENTH ANNIVERSARY of
:the introduction of the Amiga 1000, and there are still absolutely no Amigas
:whatsoever that have better sound or color capabilities than the Amiga 1000.
                                      ^^^^^
Hey, you forgot ExtraHalfBrite :-D....
  (Yes, he smiles *and* drools..)
:Expecting this much patience is unrealistic.  
:  
:> If I were C=, I'd wait until the falcon
:>was, if it ever is, released, and then totally underprice them.
:
:   And wait, and wait, and wait, while Apple, IBM, and the rest of the world
:leaves them in the dust technologically.  Forget about Atari; competing with
:slaggards willl get you nowhere.  How many of the Olympic althletes got to
:the Olympics by competing against the slowest people in their classes?  Not
:very many.
:

--
Chris Lawrence
Pretender to the Throne; Destroyer of the Faith
-----------------------------------------------
"Giving money and power to politicians is like giving whiskey and car keys to  
teenage boys."
     - P. J. O'Rourke, "Parliament of Whores"
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block)
Subject: Re: I DID giev up on the Amiga!
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 07:20:47 GMT

torrie@cs.stanford.edu (Evan Torrie) writes:
: gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block) writes:
: >Yes.  I'd like a 68000-based laptop, if I could.
: 
:   Maybe you should just buy a Powerbook 100 Greg :-)
: 
:   $899 for a 4/40 version at Price Club.

I didn't say I wanted one THAT bad.  ;)

--
(: (: (: (: Have you overdosed on smileys today?  Why NOT!?! :) :) :) :) :)
(:"The person who said size doesn't matter was probably a very small man":)
(:	gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu			Gregory R. Block         :)
(: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
From: abs0@coos.dartmouth.edu (Kelvin Leung)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: A4000 article
Keywords: A4000, new, Amiga
Date: 28 Jul 92 12:24:55 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

OH no... Not again... that article was a cruel joke.  It was created
right here @ comp.sys.amiga.advocacy!!!  Please... don't repost it again.

Skip, would you say something to these folks, please?  I am getting
a little tired reading about the Amiga Classic(tm).

Thanks.

Yours Sincerely,
Kelvin


                                            ____________________________
 __________________________________________/ Undergraduate, Class of 94 \___ 
 ____________________________________________________________/_____\________
| Kelvin     /   Internet: Kelvin.Leung@Dartmouth.edu       ({o   o})       |
|   Leung   /       or     abs0@Coos.Dartmouth.edu        <  #  ^  #  >     | 
|__________/_______________________________________________(vvvvvvvvv)------|
| "Unless someone like you cares a whole |  Aaahhhh!!! It's a beast...      |
|  awful lot, nothing is going to get    |    ... no, no... it's a doll...  |
|  better.  It's not."                   |       ... what is it?            |
|               -- Dr. Seuss (The Lorax) | either way... it's here!!!       |
 ________________________________________^__________________________________ 
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: parris@cs.scarolina.edu (Barry Parris)
Subject: Re: I am giving up on the Amiga
Organization: USC  Department of Computer Science
Date: 22 Jul 92 16:09:16 GMT

fheitkamp@desire.wright.edu writes:

>In article <62536@cup.portal.com>, TomK@cup.portal.com (Tom R Krotchko) writes:
>> Point of reference, a DELL 386DX-33 with 4MB ram, 80M HD, supervga and
>> monitor, DOS 5.0 and Windows 3.1, 24 hour on-site service for 1 year
>> is $1550.
>>
>	You know, I'm curious.  How do these people sell so cheap?

Volume!  Volume!  Volume!

--
----
Barry Parris    parris@cs.scarolina.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: mlelstv@speckled.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Michael van Elst)
Subject: Re: I DID giev up on the Amiga!
Organization: Max-Planck-Institut f"ur Radioastronomie
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 22:31:33 GMT

In <mykes.0aje@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG> mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz) writes:
>> Yes, it's too late..

>Understatement.

Well, the next possibility is already an exaggeration, but if you insist.

"The world will end in 3 hours, 45 minutes and 27 seconds. Last orders
please."

:-)
-- 
Michael van Elst
UUCP:     universe!local-cluster!milky-way!sol!earth!uunet!unido!mpirbn!p554mve
Internet: p554mve@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de
                                "A potential Snark may lurk in every tree."
From: root@rkamiga.UUCP (Rick Kelly)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re:   PC's vs. mortals
Distribution: world
Date: 21 Jul 92 09:24:18 EST
Organization: Rick's Amiga

In article <1992Jul20.185406.3865@utstat.uucp> philip@utstat.uucp (Philip McDunnough) writes:
>In article <1992Jul20.114158.20829@nic.unh.edu> pss1@kepler.unh.edu (Paul S Secinaro) writes:
>
>[ ]
>>
>>Last time I looked, you could get a 286-16 motherboard for around
>>$100, and that was nearly a *year* ago (we were shopping for a
>>replacement MB for an old PC that died).  From what I've heard, 386SX
>>motherboards are nearing that price now.  There will simply be no room
>>for 286 motherboards on the low end.  You can't sell a complete system
>>for $200 because the hard drive, case, monitor, etc.  (even crappy
>>ones), will cost more than that.
>
>286's can be used for data collection, terminals, DOS, etc...Monitors cost
>$50, case $50, cpu around $25 soon, power supply $25, etc...These are
>prices just off the top of my head. They are actually lower. I've seen 
>non-HD's floppy based 286/8 MHz systems going for $200 with a hercules 
>monitor.
>>
>>And even if you only run DOS, the 386SX gives you the advantage in
>>that it allows you to run memory managers like EMM386, which give you
>>more DOS memory.  Also, some new games are using 386-specific
>>instructions.
>
>Who cares about games. These won't be colour systems, and anyway games will
>move off computer platforms within 2 years. There are memory managers for
>286's, however 600k free memory is enough for many purposes. As terminals 
>these things will cost even less than $200 soon.

And you can still use a 286 to run:

MINIX
XENIX 286
Coherent 286
VENIX

All in protected mode with up to 16 megs of memory.

--
Rick Kelly		Rick's Amiga		Framingham, Mass.

		think!unixland!rmkhome!rkamiga!root

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls)
Subject: Re: Atari Lynx and Gameboy
Organization: Bizzaro Likes Atari
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 19:57:45 GMT

In article <1992Jul25.180536.28397@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> jyoung@nyx.cs.du.edu (Jeff Young) writes:
>In article <1992Jul21.040253.19077@cbnewsm.cb.att.com> benw@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (bennett.weber) writes:
>>
>>Same here in New Jersey...Lynx software gets almost no shelf space
>>compared to Gameboy.  My wife works for Lionel Kiddie City (toy store
>>chain) and she says that the Gameboys sell like hotcakes, while the
>>Lynx sales are few and far between.
>
>I have not heard of Lionel store too but I am sure it is very
>good store.  If you wife work at Electronic Boutique, Good Guys,
>GameXpress, Game Dude, Video Games Japan.. she will SELL OUT
>of Lynxs!!

Oh no!!  What will the world come to next?!?!?!

>>Being the better system doesn't necessarily pay the bills...
>
>You forget Atari makes BEST GAMES too, so Nintendo Gameboy
>now ported Centipede, Missile command, Asterroids.. and Atari
>said they will make many millions of dollars from license
>of games!  So Gameboy sales will pay bills for Atari too!!

Oh yeah, I can see all the kids snatching up those ancient titles 
with their awesome graphics and sound.
                                                          ___         __
  Skip Sauls, TKKC Charter Member                          |  |/  |/ / 
  skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu                                |  |\  |\ \__   



Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: dano@srl01.usl.edu (Dan Stephenson)
Subject: Re: Amiga Future?!?
Organization: Univ. of Southwestern Louisiana
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 03:26:54 GMT

cse_stu@memstvx1.memst.edu writes:

>> Thats the software part of things.  Aren't there any hardware hackers who
>> could hack up a similar Amiga hardware from off-the-shelf chips, and of course
>> add in improvements/innovations etc... that Commodore lacks.  Maybe if we
>> start a discussion on this topic, someone might pick things up and give
>> Commodore some competition.  And competition in the PC (+compatibles) market
>> is what's giving them the edge over the Amiga, right?
>The Amiga is build around the Co-processors and it cann't be duplicated. There
>is one thing that could be done and that is use the operating system which is
>written mostly in C. This means that if you rewrite the graphics software it
>could run on any machine. So maybe someone should push for Workbench to be
>ported to IBM's and MAC's and SUN's etc. Basicly it would take to much to make
>a better chip set from off the shelf parts. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't know of
>many chips that have sprites and co-processors that can share memory like the
>amiga chip set. The last thing that the amiga has done is the ability to sync
>the computer to video. When a genlock is added to the system the whole system
>runs a the colorburst(x2, x4) freq. What off the shelf chips do this?

I might check this WB out if it existed and if it was cheap enough..
many Clones should run it well, technically.

Also, even though it's expensive ($1200 retail), you can get TV-type
channeling for DOS and WIndows, and genlock.

Wouldn't it be great to watch Blakes7 off the VCR while posting??? :)

--
Dan Stephenson|das9674@usl.edu masres10@ucs.usl.edu dano@srl01.cacs.usl.edu
Come all of you you/Who are not satisfied/As rulers in a lone wall/
papered room/Full of mute bird and flowers that /Falsely bloom/And
closets choked with dreams that long ago died,... --Judy Collins
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: foax@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: VM is obsolete Hee Hee Hee!
Date: 31 Jul 92 00:12:08 EDT
Distribution: comp
Organization: Cornell University

In article <1992Jul27.041038.1507@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>,
jrm3a@cyclops.micr.Virginia.EDU (Jonathan Moll) writes: 
> Why oh Why does VM keep coming up like some holy grail?  Good God, it
> was originally a hack to overcome the high cost of primary memory
> vs secondary storage.  I take exception to Marc Barrett's statement
> of "Hard drive's are cheaper than RAM and will ALWAYS be so".

I'm not sure about VM's origins, but I think it is useful if you want
to start up several large apps (say, at the start of your workday),
and switch from app to app during the day without ever having to quit.
This is especially nice if the apps take a long time to start up.
Mind you, I still think there's no substitute for lots of RAM, as it
can always speed up your system.

>   Lesse, 4Meg = $130  for RAM so we want say, 20 Meg = $650
>   Hmm 50 Meg SCSI drive goes for $350 (average cost).

A better comparison might be a 200 Mb IDE drive, as IDE is more common
on PC's, and isn't much slower.  One will run you about $500 I think.

> We are only looking at a factor of 4.5 $/Meg in 1992 Mr. Barrett.
> Look at the market since 1975 Hmmm?  Semiconductor densities
> have been increasing more rapidly than ElectroMechanical subsystems.
> Forget VM guys and gals it's days are numbered (in octal)! 

We'll see.

> P.S. Dear TKKC, "VM is obsolete OS technology, Nahh Nahh Phpptt!"

Now, now...

> P.P.S.  I do like memory protection (pie in face, panic, machine halts
>         with a "memory protection" error) Hee Hee Hee. :)  (Yes kiddies
>         I DO KNOW that it doesn't have to halt, just give me an exception
>         and call systems in the morning)

Oh, come on.  I've seen a real "panic" on the Suns here about 3 times in
one year.  My Amiga 3000 doesn't guru often, but it gurus more frequently
than that.  Most of the time if you try to screw up memory on a Sun all
you do is dump core (i.e. get a nice, big file called "core").  Period.
An Amiga WILL hold the task (so you lose some memory and possibly the shell
window) and may guru regardless.

I also think memory protection might help a lot in protecting against
viruses, although it would be far from perfect.  Any comments?
-- 

--Colin Howell			email to howell@astrosun.tn.cornell.edu
--Cornell Astronomy Dept.	(hopefully switching to computer science)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: mlelstv@specklec.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Michael van Elst)
Subject: Re: TOS - Did they ever fix it
Organization: Max-Planck-Institut f"ur Radioastronomie
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 10:03:20 GMT

In <epang.712203860@sfu.ca> epang@fraser.sfu.ca (Eugene Pang) writes:
>>Anyways, this wasn't a *great* idea - TOS bombed on the advanced processors  
>>that used these instructions, and therefore killed off much development with  
>>advanced processors)?

>Apple wouldn't think so...Macs use the same method for calling system
>routines, and they've managed to keep 3rd party development with '020s etc.


The problem aren't the A-line traps used by Apple but the F-line
traps that can only be used without a coprocessor (FPU or MMU) present.

While Apple does only use A-line traps TOS did use F-line traps as well
to call system routines.

And: it wasn't used to make system calls available! System calls are
done via TRAP instruction or A-line exceptions. F-line exceptions were
mostly used to save ROM space (one F-line instruction is shorter than
a JSR).

Regards,
-- 
Michael van Elst
UUCP:     universe!local-cluster!milky-way!sol!earth!uunet!unido!mpirbn!p554mve
Internet: p554mve@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de
                                "A potential Snark may lurk in every tree."
From: pdb059@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov (Paul Bartholomew)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: I am giving up on the Amiga
Date: 27 Jul 92 06:52:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Image Processing Lab

In article <1992Jul25.011248.17150@newshub.ariel.yorku.ca>, cs902125@ariel.yorku.ca (SHUK C YIP) writes:
> In article <1992Jul24.000946.6129@seas.gwu.edu> gerald@seas.gwu.edu (Gerald G. Washington) writes:
>>
>>Okay, so the A500 and 386 system have roughly the same price.  That meets
>>one of your comparison criteria.  They do not have roughly the same perform-
>>ance or capabilities.  You may as well compare 386 systems to component
>>stereo systems.
> 
> I don't think A500 and 386 system have roughly the same price. For the
> price of A500, you just can get the 386 mother board unless you buy it
> as second hand. However, A500 has already had 4096 colors, 4 channels 8
> bit sound, all external port, floppy drive, mouse...

For comparably equipped systems, the 386SX and the A500 are roughly equivalent
in price.  The bare A500 does not include a hard drive nor a monitor.  By the
time you add these, plus some additional memory, you are approaching the price
of the 386SX.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Bartholomew          |   "The time has come, the walrus said, to talk of
                          |    many things..."                  Lewis Carroll
pdb059@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov   |   Disclaimer:  Opinions?  What opinions?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A)
Subject: Re: Perot ?
Organization: University of Southwestern Louisiana
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 03:55:55 GMT

In article <76793@ut-emx.uucp> mjl@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Maurice J. LeBrun) writes:
>In article <mykes.0a8i@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG> mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz) writes:
>>I, personally, believe that Carter would make an excellent ambassador
>>to Egypt or Africa (pick a country).  Anything beyond that he is
>>INCOMPETENT and proved it for 4 years.
>
>Rubbish.  Carter made mistakes, no more than the average president, and
>IMHO far less damning in the long run than Reagan's.  His main failings
>included a lack of Washington savvy, failure to cater to the press, and a
>tendency to trample on some powerful special interest groups.  His attempts
>to kill the B-1 bomber for 4 years straight were subverted by various
>members of his staff, congress, and the pentagon.  So the B-1 was still
>alive when Reagan was elected, which he supported (among other worthless
>projects, resulting in untold billions of wasted taxpayers money).
>Although Carter was elected partially because of a popular "mandate" for
>change, that mandate was not strong enough to support him in the face of
>all the adversity he faced.  I feel that the "failure" of Carter's
>presidency is more a condemnation of the system than of the man. 

So it was the 'adversity' of 'his staff, congress, and the pentagon'
cause 19%interest rates and double digit unemployment?

Please, please explain what caused that.

Basically, I think the Democrats' biggest hope in ever winning an election
again is to hope people forget Carter.  Maybe people will forget eventually,
and get a Democrat in the White House. but I suppose the voters DO
need an occaisionally reminder which party NOT to elect into the White House.

>Maurice LeBrun    mjl@fusion.ph.utexas.edu
>Institute for Fusion Studies, University of Texas at Austin


-- 
*Dan Stephenson das9674@rouge.usl.edu                                          *
*                                                                              *
* "Is it that Blake has a genius for leadership, or merely that *you* have a   *
*  genius for being led?" -Avon, from Blakes 7                                 *
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy