HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: adam@sparkle.uucp (Adam Shostack)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: FEC and AIPAC in trouble again
Date: 4 Sep 92 19:11:17 GMT
Organization: Aiken Computation Lab, Harvard University

In article <580034@hpwrce.mayfield.hp.com> kingsley@hpwrce.mayfield.hp.com (Kingsley Morse) writes:
>Seven former U.S. officials are suing the Federal Election Commission (FEC).
>They're charging that the FEC should have punished the American Israel Public 
>Affairs Committee (AIPAC), the pro-Israel lobby group, for illegally directing
>campaign contributions to favored candidates. The FEC turned the other cheek 
>even through its own general counsel found that AIPAC had probably violated 
>the law.  The seven include former Under Secretary of State George Ball, 
>former Illinois Rep. Paul Findley and Andrew Kilgore, former U.S. ambassador 
>to Qatar.

Allow me to elaborate:

After consipracy theorists, including Paul "They dare to speak out"
Findley forced the FEC to investigate AIPAC, the FEC found
insufficient evidence of wrongdoing to warrant a lawsuit.  The fact
that a counsel "thinks" AIPAC had "probably violated the law" is
irrelevant.

The purpose of this lawsuit is to spend millions of taxpayer dollars
pursuing the paranoid fantasies of a group of former government
employees.

As they should well know, the FEC has no power to punish anyone should
their opion be chalenged in court.  What this lawsuit does is give
conspiracy theorists further grounds to claim that Israel is the
eternal boogieman, by claiming that "the issue is still in court."
The FEC spent 4 years examining this case, and did not find enough
evidence to go into court.

End of issue, except for those who thought JFK an accurate
representation of life.

Adam


Adam Shostack 					adam@das.harvard.edu

What a terrible thing to have lost one's .sig.  Or not to have a .sig
at all.  How true that is.      
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: barrak@tramp.Colorado.EDU (HADI MOHAMMED F)
Subject: Justice in Sudan (was: Islamic Sabah of Kuwait)
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 05:00:13 GMT

In article <1992Aug28.193442.2436009@locus.com> jle@locus.com (John Elghani/10000000) writes:
> >
> >Apparently you are a John Gurung supporter.  I haven't heard a single
> >independent islamic sheikh speak against the government of Sudan,
> >but rather the opposite.  Did you read about the proudness of 
> >the Afghan Mujahideen of the Sudani government and especially 
> >Br. Hasan Al Turabi?  Did you hear Dr. Ahmad Nofel speak of how
> >much justice there is in Sudan now adays.  Did you hear how
> >Sudan is flowrishing after with the current government?
> >

The country is involved in civil war because a large part of the
population (in the south) do not want to be subjected to Islamic law
and they have the right to oppose it since they are not Moslems in the
first place. How can you speak of justice when you are forcing your
beliefs on others by war? [According to Encyclopaedia Britannica 1992,
27% of Sudanis are non-Moslems and 50.9% are non-Arabs (data of
1983).]

> >
> >jle
> >
> >

---barrak

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: perlman@qso.Colorado.EDU (Eric S. Perlman)
Subject: Re: BILL CLINTON ON ISRAEL AND THE MIDDLE
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 16:17:44 GMT

In article <25345@castle.ed.ac.uk> egpv29@castle.ed.ac.uk (JHenderson) writes:
>In article <1992Aug30.203217.6730@colorado.edu> perlman@qso.Colorado.EDU (Eric S. Perlman) writes:
>=>In article <25344@castle.ed.ac.uk> egpv29@castle.ed.ac.uk (JHenderson) writes:
>=>>In article <1992Aug28.154918.2856@colorado.edu> perlman@qso.Colorado.EDU (Eric S. Perlman) writes:
>=>>=>In article <25274@castle.ed.ac.uk> egpv29@castle.ed.ac.uk (JHenderson) writes:
>=>>=>>
>=>>=>>It's pretty clear that the Cuban people preferred Castro to Batista, the
>=>>=>>US puppet. The US boycott has nothing to do with morality, as is made
>=>>=>>evident by US support for despots throughout the globe.
>=>>=>
>=>>=>Seriously, Jeremy.  That's just out-and-out revisionism.  If this were
>=>>=>the case, where did 70% of South Florida's Cuban population come from?
>=>>=>I'll give you a clue:  most of them fled the Castro regime either in the
>=>>=>last months before he took over, or in the first year or so after he took
>=>>=>over.
>=>>
>=>>They didn't want to live in a war-zone, or a country where life has been
>=>>made difficult by constant US aggression. The same pattern was seen in
>=>>Nicaragua.
>=>
>=>And for both countries, you need to read some history, not propaganda.
>=>Those people didn't just flee a war zone.  They fled for a specific
>=>reason.  That reason has a name - Fidel Castro.
>
>Riiiight - all those Cubans in Nicaragua forcing the population out of 
>their homes at gunpoint - even the Houston Chronicle wasn't *that*
>stupid.

Jeremy, you're misinterpreting my last two lines.  Those last two lines
were referring solely to Cuba, not Nicaragua.  You really need a reality
check.

-- 
"How sad to see/A model of decorum and tranquillity/become like any other sport
A battleground for rival ideologies to slug it out with glee." -Tim Rice,"Chess"
     Eric S. Perlman 				 <perlman@qso.colorado.edu> 
  Center for Astrophysics and Space Astronomy, University of Colorado, Boulder
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: CLINTON SPEECH TEXT: RABIN MEETING
Date: 1 Sep 92 19:36:35 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <Btr4JH.DA3.2@cs.cmu.edu> anwar+@cs.cmu.edu (Anwar Mohammed) writes:
>
>Sheesh. I guess at least she didn't accuse Kuwaitis have having "harams"filled 
>with women.

I was referring to her using her using her brain and poltical science
knowledge :_) by making the analysis between the two governments.

Please give credit where credit is due - after all, you don't want to
reinforce any stereotype about sexist Arab men, do you Anwar?

>   This is on par with an American friend of mine once asking me if
>we all "rode on camels and wore swords".

That's nothing.  An American man asked my mother if there was grass
in France.  And another asked me, 'what is a white woman like you
wearing that thing on your head'?

Anisa

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: barrak@tramp.Colorado.EDU (HADI MOHAMMED F)
Subject: Re: What are you sucking on, Anwar?  (was Re: John Elghani sucking on his toes)
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 05:20:22 GMT

In article <3671@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh) writes:
> >In article <1992Sep1.053659.28902@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> barrak@tramp.Colorado.EDU (HADI MOHAMMED F) writes:
> >>
> >>Correction: According to the Constitution of Kuwait, all natural resources
> >>(i.e. oil) are owned by the state for the benefit of the people. The
> >
> >Yes.  Owned by the state - just as in Saudi Arabia.  So, as we
> >originally stated, the corruption and greed is *in fact* from the
> >government.  But why is it that the majority of citizens so
> >arrogant?  Don't they believe in democratic principals, such as
> >equality regardless of race, creed, color?
> >
> >>state is composed of the Emir who appoints the cabinet (The Executive
> >>Body) and an elected National Assembly (The Legislative Body).
> >
> >Yes.  The Emir *appoints* - so where does the election fall into
> >place?  The National Assembly?  Are its members elected?

The cabinet is appointed. The assembly is elected.

> >
> >BTW, didn't the Emir say that he was going to give freedom of election
> >to the people after the Gulf War?  Or was this just to appease the
> >United States?

Elections are scheduled for October 5, 33 days from now.

> >
> >>You are insulting Kuwaitis by claiming that the oil wells are owned by
> >>``Sabahis'' unless of course if you mean by ``Sabahis'' all Kuwaitis.
> >
> >Of course.  It would be very unfair to insult all Kuwaitis - after all,
> >not all people are rich, just as in Saudi Arabia.
> >
> >>---barrak
> >
> >Barrak feek -
> >
> >Anisa

---barrak

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Subject: Re: Iraqi weaponry, was Re: Soviet Nuclear Weapons Stolen?
Reply-To: hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 14:22:58 GMT

In article <1992Aug26.135941.29015@cas.org>, jac54@cas.org writes:
> In article <BtLE5A.EDw@news.cso.uiuc.edu> daniels@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
(Daniel R. Sawyer) writes:
> >snggab01@uctvax.uct.ac.za writes:
> >
> >>Who was it that provided Saddam with arms for nearly ten years to
bomb and maim
> >>Iranian and Kurdish civilians ? Who subsequently bombed Iraq and killed or
> >>injured nearly 40000 civilians. ? Who has now been providing arms to Syria
> >>as a warm newly found friend ? James Baker was on television shaking
the hand
> >>of Hafez Assad,a hand that was slippery with blood.
> >
> >Yep, that was the U.S.  Although others certainly helped.  But we
should give
> >credit (or discredit) where it is due.  I think the bribe deal to get Syria
> >into the war by giving them Lebanon and God knows what else was bad.  We'll
> >regret it later, I regret it now.
> 
> 	Let's get this right.  There are not, and never were, any U.S.
> 	weapons in the Iraqi inventory.  Soviet, French, Italian, Brazilian,
> 	and others, yes, but no American weapons.  The U.S. loaned the
> 	Iraqis a lot of money that was supposed to go towards other
> 	things, supporting the civilian infrastructure in the main.
> 
> 	The burden of proof now lies with you to demonstrate that such
        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> 	monies were used, with the knowledge of the U.S., to finance
        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> 	weapons purchase and development.
        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> 
> 	My source for the Iraqi inventory was the "The World Defence
> 	Almanac 1990-91" which is a special edition of "The Balance of
> 	Military Power" published by SIPRI if I remember correctly.
> 
> 	Don't assume I'm acting as an apologist for the Iraqis, the
> 	Ba'athists, or the Republicans.  I worry a lot about the
> 	first group but have little time for the other two.
> 
> 	Alec Chambers

Of course, we can absolutely state that the U.S. government was aware
that Kuwait and Saudi Arabia were giving monetary assistance to Iraq
during the war with Iran. Furthermore, the U.S. reflagged Kuwaiti ships
during the war to ensure that they could safely sell their oil. Kuwait
and Saudi Arabia were as involved in the war as the U.S. was involved in
WW II before Pearl Harbor; no troops but lots of money.

Brad Hernlem (hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU)
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: BACK TO LIMBAUGH'S SECRET NONAGENDA
Date: 25 Aug 92 20:47:52 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

Jake writes:

BTW, is that short for Yakov?

>Jim, no one is even listening to you anymore.

Are you the representative of the newsgroup?

Don't you have anything better to contribute to his last statement
or is it too challenging for you?

Who died and made you the Rebbe?

Anisa
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:19206 alt.war:1856
From: mst@vexpert.dbai.tuwien.ac.at (Markus Stumptner)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,alt.war
Subject: Re: Soviet Nuclear Weapons Stolen? / The Count
Date: 26 Aug 92 18:53:53 GMT
Organization: DB and ES Subdivision, TU Vienna

From article <BtLE5A.EDw@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, by daniels@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Daniel R. Sawyer):
> It seems to me that Iran is much more democratic than Iraq, Saudi Arabia, 
> Kuwait, Syria, Jordan and anyone else the U.S. has ever propped up in the
> Middle East (Israel excluded).

There's Turkey, which has its own problems, but is lightyears ahead of
Iran in this respect.  It could also be said that Iran can afford to
be lenient, since nowhere else were dissidents so ruthlessly
exterminated as there (Syria perhaps excluded).  I remember a quote
from the Iranian minister of foreign relations, about two or three
years ago, to the effect of "There are no political prisoners in Iran.
All of them have now be executed.  This sad chapter in our history is
behind us and we can go on unhindered by human rights problems."

Apparently that kind of reasoning really works in international
relations.
-- 
Markus Stumptner                                mst@vexpert.dbai.tuwien.ac.at
University of Technology Vienna                 vexpert!mst@relay.eu.net
Paniglg. 16, A-1040 Vienna, Austria             ...mcsun!vexpert!mst
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Nabil Idriss)
Subject: Bosnians orphans
Originator: nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM
Organization: NCR E&M Columbia SC.
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 92 19:30:14 GMT

SIDON, LEBANON (AUG. 20) UPI - A Muslim orphanage has offered to shelter 100 
Bosnian orphans and has contacted international organizations to secure their
safe passage to Lebanon, an Islamic leader disclosed Thursday. 
   Sheik Mahmoud Salim Jalaleddine, mufti of the Sunni Muslim community in this
southern Lebanon port city, said the Dar Al Yatim orphanage expressed readiness
to receive the orphans from embattled Bosnia- Hercegovia. 
   "The orphanage pledged to take care of them, provide them with food and
clothes, as well as guarantee them good education," Jalaleddine told United
Press International in a telephone interview. 
  He said the orphanage has completed all preparations to receive them as soon
as possible. The mufti said contacts were already underway with international
organizations to secure their safe evacuation from the war-torn region. 
   Minister of State Nazih Bizri said he will relay the proposal to the 
International Committee of the Red Cross. Bizri said he was urging wealthy
businessmen in Sidon to help cover the orphans' travel expenses. 
-- 
Nabil Idriss                           |       FOR EVERY ACTION AN OPPOSITE  
NCR - Midrange Products Division       |       AND EQUAL REACTION.
      Columbia, South Carolina         |      
email: nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM |
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: bdm@cs.anu.edu.au (Brendan McKay)
Subject: Re: Lehi and nazies
Reply-To: bdm@cs.anu.edu.au
Organization: Australian National University
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 08:49:32 GMT

In article 26043@ennews.eas.asu.edu, makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky) writes:
>In article <1992Sep2.045114.10284@cs.anu.edu.au> bdm@cs.anu.edu.au writes:
> 
># Lehi had no love of the Germans.  They believed that the Nazis would
># win the war and that the Nazi flavour of anti-semitism was going to
># be the trend for a long time.  More interestingly, they believed
># that anti-semitism could not be fought because it was JUSTIFIED; 
># it was reasonable for non-Jews to hate Jews because after all the
># Jews were the Chosen People and therefore superior.
>
>	I have a lot of problems with this, and Brendan I believe you owe
>lots of peaople an apology for that insulting remark.  I consider the
>Jews (me included) to be the chosen people.  I do NOT consider myself
>(or any other Jew) superior.  Even if I did, that might make
>anti-semitism a predictable response (not that it would make it, just
>that it might), but not a JUSTIFIED response.
>
>	Just to let you know, it was this one paragraph that caused me to
>respond.  The use of 'JUSTIFIED' is disgusting to say the least.

I expected that you wouldn't like it.  However, you are asking me to
apologise for the beliefs of Stern, which is rather bizarre.  What
I wrote is properly parsed "they [Lehi] believed ... it was justified".
I never said that I believe it was justified, nor do I believe that.

What I have read about the beliefs of Stern and his buddies are that
they belonged to the (hopefully small) subset of Jewish thinkers which
regarded the doctrine of Chosenness as a doctrine of superiority.
I think it fits their policies and behaviour quite well, but I don't
have access to the original source materials that could confirm it.
My most recent reading on the subject was the two books by Lenni
Brenner, Zionism in the Age of the Dictators and The Iron Wall, but
I've read less pointed texts also.

>David Makowsky

Brendan.



Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: adam@sparkle.uucp (Adam Shostack)
Subject: Re: Mutlu's address needed
Organization: Aiken Computation Lab, Harvard University
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 01:23:35 GMT

In article <39146@imag.imag.fr> oueichek@ngulu (Ibaa Oueichek) writes:
>re0x+@andrew.cmu.edu (Radu Eugen Edelstein) writes:
>: Another way to deal with Mutlu's postings would be to flood his
>: original site by each of us' answering each of his postings.
>
> NO NO AND NO. MAIL BOMBING ANY SITE CAN HAVE FATAL RESULTS. If the sys 
>admin of the mentionned site complains about being mail bombed YOU ARE 
>ALOMST SURE TO LOSE YOUR ACCOUNT (I'm quite sure about this, you can ask 
>in more appropriate newsgroups) and you may face more nasty problems.

this is a matter of who your admin is, and if he reads a group flooded
by Mutlu.  Its *rude* to send core files, etc, but then again, so is
flooding 30 odd newsgroups like mutlu does.

>(this is not a threat, i don't pay a damn about Mutlu's revisionism, i'm
>just telling you that it's ILLEGAL).

You're wrong.  Not a damn thing illegal about it.  You might run into
problems if you wrote a letter bomb that took advantage of his
termcap to delete files, or if you cracked his system... But sending
mail of random junk?

Threats, or obcentity might get you in trouble, but not his postings.


>  If you read the path carefully, you'll notice that ALL THE POSTS ARE FORGED
>  through ucbvax.berkeley.edu, that's why you can't email Mutlu (or should i 

They are not "forged," berkeley maintains Mail->news gateways for
folks who aren't "allowed" to post.  They have his name, QED, they are
not forged.

>  I have a better suggestion : start a collect, $5 per irritated reader
>  will be enough. It'l not be difficult to hire an "Armenain terrorist"
>  who's more than willing to get rid of this net.virus.

Great suggestion.

Try reading comp.org.eff.talk for a while, or misc.legal, to see what
the laws are.  Nettiquite is one thing, laws are quite another.

Adam



Adam Shostack 					adam@das.harvard.edu

What a terrible thing to have lost one's .sig.  Or not to have a .sig
at all.  How true that is.      
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: anwar+@cs.cmu.edu (Anwar Mohammed)
Subject: Re: CLINTON SPEECH TEXT: RABIN MEETING
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 13:10:30 GMT

In article <1992Aug27.191306.2431880@locus.com> jle@locus.com (John Elghani/10000000) writes:
>In article <BtnAz1.GCo.2@cs.cmu.edu> anwar+@cs.cmu.edu (Anwar Mohammed) writes:
>>
>>The point is that this is all a LOT MORE than you could say 
>>for any other Arab country.  I've yet to see someone challenge 
>>this statement.
>>
>>Before responding, it is important to point out that I 
>>posted that this was a good "first step". 
>
>Question to Mr. Anwar Mxxxxxxd:
>
>Would you rather see Kuwait run by a 100% true moslem government
>with a 100% true moslem leader regardless if the leader was Kuwaiti,
>Iraqi, or Afghani?  Or you'd rather have the Shabah family continue
>to ride Kuwait.

I would like to see Kuwait run by a Kuwaiti, just like I'd like to 
see Lebanon run by Lebanese, Syria run by Syrians, Jordan run by 
Jordanians, Egypt run by Egyptians, etc.  My personal opinion is that
state and religious institutions should reman seperate to a degree.
You've got a problem with that?

>
>jle
>
>


-- 
Anwar Mohammed                           Graduate Student
anwar+@cs.cmu.edu  (NeXTmail welcome)    School of Computer Science
Voice: +1 412 268 3043                   Carnegie-Mellon University
Fax:   +1 412 681 5739                   Pittsburgh, PA  15213-3890
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Religion and Politics (was: Re: CLINTON SPEECH TEXT...)
Date: 3 Sep 92 19:35:41 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <1992Sep2.203516.1745@midway.uchicago.edu> rivk@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>In article <3694@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh) writes:
>
>>And is the political concept of Zionism?  Why make historical
claims based on Biblical testament then?
>
>Much of the Bible is non-religious history, and it's on that which
secular Zionism bases its claims, such as are taken from the Bible
at all.

Can you elaborate here?  Are not the elements of Zionism based on
the concepts of the Old Testament?  We know that Zionism is a
nationalistic movement more so than religious one, but aren't the
claims based on religion?

Anisa
From: arens@ISI.EDU (Yigal Arens)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: BILL CLINTON ON ISRAEL AND THE MIDDLE
Date: 27 Aug 92 21:50:57 GMT
	<1992Aug25.011556.7264@midway.uchicago.edu>
	<1992Aug26.132051.8356@dscomsf.desy.de>
	<1992Aug26.151840.4948@midway.uchicago.edu>
Organization: USC/Information Sciences Institute
In-reply-to: rivk@ellis.uchicago.edu's message of 26 Aug 92 15:18:40 GMT

In article <1992Aug26.151840.4948@midway.uchicago.edu> rivk@ellis.uchicago.edu (nora gayle rivkis) writes:
> In article <1992Aug26.132051.8356@dscomsf.desy.de> Hallam@zeus02.desy.de writes:
>
> >If someone on the net wants to start claiming that the Mufti was not
> >a fascist then I would be quite happy to engage in the debate.
>
> Go argue with ... Yigal, ...  then, who last I saw were indeed
> claiming precisely that.

I have pointed out over and over again that Ms. Rivkis has a most
unfortunate propensity to claim as fact the most outrageously
preposterous falsities.

I have challenged her on numerous past occasions to substantiate other
bizarre contentions of hers, without success.

I now ask that she produce a statement of mine, *any* statement of mine,
that claims -- whether "precisely" or vaguely -- that the Mufti was or
was not anyting in the world -- fascist, democrat, communist, Zionist,
whatever.

Judging from past experience, we will never hear another word from her
on this subject.  Unless she decides, for once, to admit her problems
with reality.
--
Yigal Arens        "You'd think [Bush] was running for First Lady instead
USC/ISI            of for President."     Bill Clinton, commenting on GOP
arens@isi.edu      attacks on his wife.   LA Times, 8/20.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: anwar+@cs.cmu.edu (Anwar Mohammed)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Computer Science in Israel Ignored
Date: 30 Aug 92 13:47:19 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.BtsuAv.5IM.2
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon


Sorry, I just realized that the original posters had crossposted to
both talk.politics.mideast and soc.culture.jewish.  I will direct 
further posts to talk.politics.mideast.

-anwar
-- 
Anwar Mohammed                           Graduate Student
anwar+@cs.cmu.edu  (NeXTmail welcome)    School of Computer Science
Voice: +1 412 268 3043                   Carnegie-Mellon University
Fax:   +1 412 681 5739                   Pittsburgh, PA  15213-3890