HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bzs@ussr.std.com (Barry Shein)
Newsgroups: ne.general
Subject: Re: Privacy and POS (Re: Speaking of ATMs)
Date: 16 Sep 92 00:10:27 GMT
	<1992Sep10.201331.2126@mips2.ma30.bull.com>
	<1992Sep10.214748.26806@osf.org> <CKD.92Sep11004230@loiosh.eff.org>
	<SPIKE.92Sep14140942@coke.std.com>
	<DNB.92Sep14183130@meshugge.media.mit.edu>
	<SPIKE.92Sep15115936@coke.std.com>
Distribution: ne
Organization: The World


A related question is: Should they be allowed to access that
information without paying you? Do you have a copyright or other
protection on the intimate details of your own life (assuming you are
not a public figure and chose to be examined in return for the
remunerations of public life)?

Buying/selling marketing info is big business. Perhaps we are allowing
ourselves to be sheep and future generations will scoff at how stupid
we were as they cash their personal information royalty checks.

--
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD
From: richb@kronos.com (Rich Braun)
Newsgroups: ne.general
Subject: Re: Usenet Network..
Date: 16 Sep 92 00:03:52 GMT
Organization: Kronos Inc. / Waltham, MA
Disclaimer: This posting is a personal opinion and not that of Kronos Inc.

Jeevan_Ramapriya@amicol.UUCP (Jeevan Ramapriya) writes:
>Hi there.. I was just wondering if this network is Nation wide or World
>Wide...
>  By the way, what other world wide Networks are out there...?

USENET is a collection of systems linked together throughout the world.
It is probably the largest single community of users ever created, with
an estimated 2 million active participants today.  I can't think of any
other worldwide network; this is "the" Net.

There are about 1500 worldwide newsgroups.  To create a greater sense of
regional autonomy, some forums are distributed over a limited geographic area.
The New England region has the following regional newsgroups:

  ne.food  -    Discussions about cooking, local restaurants, etc.
  ne.forsale -  Non-commercial postings of second-hand items for sale
  ne.general -  This forum, for items which don't fit into another
  ne.housing -  Housing for rent or sale, or housing wanted
  ne.jobs -     Job postings and occasional discussions
  ne.motss -    Issues within gay/lesbian/bisexual community
  ne.nearnet -  Hierarchy of newsgroups for NEARnet maintenance
  ne.news -     Newsgroup administration inquiries and discussion
  ne.org.bcs -  Boston Computer Society discussion
  ne.org.decus- DEC DECUS user group discussion
  ne.politics - Regional politics
  ne.seminars - Seminar and conference announcements
  ne.wanted -   Items/services/jobs/newsfeeds wanted

-rich
From: beh@geech.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Bruce Howells)
Newsgroups: ne.general
Subject: Musical services
Date: 6 Sep 92 22:24:56 GMT
Distribution: ne
Organization: Internet access via the Free Software Foundation


Accompanist and coach now available for work in the Boston area.  
Credentials include an MM from the University of Michigan in Chamber
Music/accompanying, and proficiency in vocal coaching/languages.  German
tutoring also offered (several years' intensive work in Austria).  

Available for performances, lessons, rehearsals.

Please contact either via this email address (I will forward it to the
pianist) or call directly:  Brian Moll 617-923-0989.

Also offering all levels of piano and organ instruction.

(PERSONAL NOTE:  This man was my coach/accompanist in my DMA at the UM. He
is GREAT!!!!!)

--Nancy Howells (beh@gnu.ai.mit.edu through the graciousness of my hubby)
From: obrien@sparc28.hri.com (Jim Obrien)
Newsgroups: ne.general
Subject: Home owner's Insurance
Date: 8 Sep 92 17:59:36 GMT
Reply-To: obrien@bigbird.hri.com
Organization: Horizon Research, Inc.



I'm currently looking into home owners Insurance. This
is the first time I have done this, so I need  a little
help. 

The house is in the Boston Area (Hull), and its has been
assessed at $65,900. 

My personal belongings are not much, and I don't want to
get any more coverage than what is necessary.

If anyone has any good experiences with a local agencies, or
any info about what to look out for, please let me know.

                                       Thankx Jimm..



+-+-------------+-+----------------------------------------------------+-+
|o|    /////    |o|              Jim O'Brien (obrien)                  |o|
|o|   | @ @     |o|           Horizon Research Inc. (HRI)              |o|
|o|   c  _)     |o|        1432 Main street Waltham Ma. 02154          |o|
|o|    \ o      |o|   obrien@HRI.com (617) 466-8364 FAX (617) 466-8323 |o|
+-+-------------+-+----------------------------------------------------+-+
From: ahughes@arch386.hyperdesk.com (Arch Hughes)
Newsgroups: ne.general
Subject: Re: Anyone else get this from BayBank?
Date: 11 Sep 92 20:03:48 GMT
Reply-To: arch@hyperdesk.com
Organization: HyperDesk Corporation

In article <1992Sep9.131703.8759@ryn.mro4.dec.com>, shapiro@trade.enet.dec.com (Steve Shapiro) writes:
> 
> In article <PSHUANG.92Sep4204536@beeblebrox.mit.edu>, pshuang@athena.mit.edu
> (Ping-Shun Huang) writes...
> 
> 
> Get the card to avoid the charges, and when it arrives, cut it into small
> pieces. When or if you need the reserve $$, just go to the bank, tell them you
> lost the card and have them give it as a cash advance.
> 
> Regards,
> Steve.
> 
> *********************************************************************/

I was suprised to learn recently that, in addition to the 35 cent
charge to use a BayBank ATM, I was hit with a 35 cent charge for a
pair of "in branch" transactions I did (I bought traveller's checks).

I found it cheaper to use my BayBank ATM card at the local grocery
store than at a BayBank ATM (only 15 cents at the grocery).

What's wrong with this picture?

-- 
o o|  Arch Hughes, HyperDesk Corp.        Phone   508-366-5050 x103
o o|  Suite 300, 2000 West Park Dr.       Fax     508-898-3841
---+  Westboro, MA   01581                E-Mail  arch@hyperdesk.com
Newsgroups: ne.general
From: meissner@osf.org (Michael Meissner)
Subject: Re: Anyone else get this from BayBank?
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 02:39:52 GMT

In article <189m9gINNc01@early-bird.think.com> barmar@think.com (Barry
Margolin) writes:

| DIRECT Federal Credit Union is on Cirrus, NYCE, Yankee 24, and Xpress 24 --
| all the same networks as BayBank.  So long as I have my paycheck deposited
| directly into my credit union account, they waive all ATM fees.  So the one
| advantage of BayBank no longer exists.

While I know that I'm a trouble magnet, my wife and I have various
discrepencies with DIRECT Federal Credit Union (the wrong amount
getting deposited, and such), to the point that that we have stopped
using it, and gone back to getting weekly checks, and depositing them
in Shawmut.
--
Michael Meissner	email: meissner@osf.org		phone: 617-621-8861
Open Software Foundation, 11 Cambridge Center, Cambridge, MA, 02142

You are in a twisty little passage of standards, all conflicting.
Newsgroups: ne.general
From: mem@mv.mv.com (Mark E. Mallett)
Subject: Re: Speaking of ATMs
Organization: MV Communications, Inc.
Distribution: ne
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 17:15:09 GMT

In article <SPIKE.92Sep9125246@coke.std.com> spike@coke.std.com (Joe Ilacqua) writes:
>
>	The Purity Supreme in Watertown (on Watertown Street) has
>installed gizmos that let you pay for your groceries with your ATM
>card (or Visa and Master Card).  You swipe your card, enter your code,
>agree to the charge ("PRESS OK IF $59.74 IS CORRECT") and you are off.
>Like paying with a check you can over pay to get cash back.

Not cool.  

I'm sure many people will point this out, but one reason for these things
is not for your convenience.  They are used to gather information about your
purchasing habits.  RISKS has been talking about this for ages; there
was also a NOVA show that included it a year or so ago.

caveat emptor.

-mm-
-- 
Mark E. Mallett  MV Communications, Inc./ PO Box 4963/ Manchester NH/ 03108
Bus. Phone: 603 429 2223    Home: 603 424 8129     BIX: mmallett
Internet: mem@mv.MV.COM  ( uucp: ...{decvax|harvard}!mv!mem )
Looking for news and mail in southern NH / northern MA?  Try MV!
Newsgroups: ne.general
From: dnb@meshugge.media.mit.edu (David N. Blank-Edelman)
Subject: Re: Privacy and POS (Re: Speaking of ATMs)
Organization: M.I.T. Media Laboratory
	<1992Sep10.201331.2126@mips2.ma30.bull.com>
	<1992Sep10.214748.26806@osf.org> <CKD.92Sep11004230@loiosh.eff.org>
	<SPIKE.92Sep14140942@coke.std.com>
Distribution: ne
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 23:31:30 GMT

>       So long as they lower it because I buy free weights from time
> to time and have my bike tuned regularly that's fine with me.

Ahh, so here's another classic risk: the information they collect on
you could be either incomplete or incorrect (you use a friend's card).
        Peace,
           dNb
--

 David N. Blank-Edelman              o/    \  /    \ /     /      \o   
 M.I.T. Media Laboratory            /#      ##o     #     o##      #\
 E15-473F, (617) 253-2169           / \    /  \    /o\    / |\    / \
From: delatizk@bbn.com (Jonathan Delatizky)
Newsgroups: ne.general
Subject: Re: Speaking of ATMs
Date: 10 Sep 1992 13:55:29 GMT
Distribution: ne
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com

grady@world.std.com (Dick Grady) writes:

>I wondered what incentive these stores have in installing this
>system (after all these terminals cost money). 

Immediate transfer of money, and no bounced checks, just for a start.  Lower
costs for processing your payments, since someone doesn't have to make up
deposit slips for the bank.

>                                                I figure that some-one
>wants to collect information on who buys what.  After all, the scanner has
>just recorded everything you bought; now they have your ATM account
>number, which identifies you. (Good grief, maybe they capture
>your PIN also.)

This may be true, too, but is probably not the up-front motivation.

--
Jonathan Delatizky  *  Bolt Beranek & Newman  * If you mention Rimbaud in Bel
delatizky@bbn.com   *    10 Moulton Street    *  Air it is assumed you're
{...}!bbn!delatizky *   Cambridge MA 02138    *  talking about Sylvester
+1 617 873 3366     *  FAX: +1 617 873 2205   *  Stallone  -  Peter Mayle
From: richb@kronos.com (Rich Braun)
Newsgroups: ne.general
Subject: Re: Privacy and POS (Re: Speaking of ATMs)
Date: 11 Sep 92 17:14:05 GMT
Distribution: ne
Organization: Kronos Inc. / Waltham, MA
Disclaimer: This posting is a personal opinion and not that of Kronos Inc.

>mgelman@cyclades.ma30.bull.com (Michael A. Gelman) writes:
>>The problem is: Do your shopping habits belong to you?  (More
>>precisely, does information about your shopping habits belong to you?)

kenny@osf.org (Kenneth Crudup) writes:
>I still don't understand what the harm is. What can they do with such useless
>information? It's not something relevant like how much money I've got in my
>bank/investment accounts, for example.

It's not useless information at all.  If a furniture company can get a
list of all New Englanders who bought furniture within the last year,
then they can target that list.  If an appliance manufacturer has access
to the list of all people who've signed purchase&sale agreements for
housing in the last two months, then it'll have a more captive audience.
This is a very simple marketing technique which has been refined by
new technologies to a rather high level.  The more people use plastic to
log their purchases, the more marketing information can be made available.

If this information were only used for marketing, one could argue it's
a public service:  each citizen would only be pestered by companies in
the business of selling what interests them.  "Junk" mail would become a
thing of the past.

But like medical records, once the information has been created, it becomes
extremely tempting to use it for other purposes which *do not* help the
consumer.  Indeed, it's inevitable that companies will *seek to use it
to their own advantage*.  (In the case of insurance companies, they maintain
medical records to *deny benefits* to entire classes of people.)

I'll keep the $300 in my pocket.  Someday it'll be possible to figure out
who I am based on the serial numbers of the 10s and 20s I pulled out of
an ATM, but until that day cash is conveniently anonymous.  And if I got
ripped off of $300 by a mugger every five years, then I'd still be saving
money over using the ripoff services which banks offer.  (Arguably, the
money would even be going to a better cause!)

-rich
Newsgroups: ne.general
From: lmf@gtech.com (Linda M. Fitzpatrick)
Subject: Re: NE Zoos
Summary: Roger Williams Park Zoo, Providence, RI
Organization: GTECH Corporation, West Greenwich, RI
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 18:27:56 GMT

How about our little zoo here in Rhode Island??  I believe it is the only
zoo in New England that is a member of the AAZPxqrvt-whatever-it-is.

ROGER WILLIAMS PARK ZOO (and check out the museum, and planetarium, etc...)

It has polar bears (Norton and Trixie) that are lots of fun to watch.  The 
elephants are new last year (in the African Plains, also new), and lots 
more is being added all the time.

I am not sure about admission, I am a member, but I think it is about $2.00 
for adults and $1.00 for kids.  First Saturday of every month is free.

They have lots of special events, especially for kids.  I wish I were young
enough to do the sleep-over at the zoo!!! 

(From the postings, you would think this group was only about Massachusetts!!!)


-- 
lmf@soft.gtech.com          GTECH Corporation        ... But don't blame
                               55 Plan Way           GTECH for my thoughts,
Linda M. Fitzpatick      West Greenwich, RI 02817         or lack of!)
From: richb@kronos.com (Rich Braun)
Newsgroups: ne.general
Subject: Re: Debit Cards and confidentiality
Date: 11 Sep 92 17:03:41 GMT
Distribution: ne
Organization: Kronos Inc. / Waltham, MA
Disclaimer: This posting is a personal opinion and not that of Kronos Inc.

gordon@lugh.think.com (gordon linoff) writes:
>One reason why banks like debit cards (as opposed to just
>ATM cards) is that they can accumulate information about
>your buying habits.  ...
>Incidently, collecting (and using) such marketing
>information is standard for most credit cards ...

I'd listen to Gordon; he ought to know--he works for a company whose
major customers include marketing conglomerates which use supercomputers
to analyze (and make available for resale) consumer buying habits...

;-)
-rich
Newsgroups: ne.general
From: rdc@world.std.com (Ralph D Clifford)
Subject: Re: Anyone else get this from BayBank?
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 14:21:25 GMT

In article <7194@bigbird.hri.com.hri.com> limey@hri.com writes:
>In article <1992Sep9.131703.8759@ryn.mro4.dec.com>, shapiro@trade.enet.dec.com (Steve Shapiro) writes:
>|> 
>|> I suggest:
>|> 
>|> Get the card to avoid the charges, and when it arrives, cut it into small
>|> pieces. When or if you need the reserve $$, just go to the bank, tell them you
>|> lost the card and have them give it as a cash advance.
>|> 
>
>Danger Will Robinson!  I wouldn't do that without checking with the bank
>first; the debit card is also your regular ATM card, and they may
>disable the old card after you get the new one.

     They do, as I discovered when I put my old card into a cash machine to
get much needed cash and the machine ate my card.  :-(  Unfortunately, the
new card that BayBank forced me to take in order to avoid charges on my
accounts had been mailed to my old address, not my new.











-- 
Ralph Clifford
From: spike@coke.std.com (Joe Ilacqua)
Newsgroups: ne.general
Subject: Re: Anyone else get this from BayBank?
Date: 9 Sep 92 17:43:51 GMT
	<1992Sep9.131703.8759@ryn.mro4.dec.com>
Organization: Software Tool & Die

In (see above) shapiro@trade.enet.dec.com (Steve Shapiro) writes:
<Get the card to avoid the charges, and when it arrives, cut it into small
<pieces. When or if you need the reserve $$, just go to the bank, tell them you
<lost the card and have them give it as a cash advance.

	Then you are cutting up your ATM card and if you don't use
ATMs then BayBanks has nothing to offer.

->Spike
--
The Truly K00L don't have signatures.
Newsgroups: ne.general
From: kenny@osf.org (Kenneth Crudup)
Subject: Re: Speaking of ATMs
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Distribution: ne
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 18:17:10 GMT


... [debit card usage and purchase tracking discussions deleted] ...

OK, so now the conspiracy-minded among us now fear the great POS debit-card
rage among local grocery stores. (First it was Caller-ID, which we can't get
in NE now. Thanks a lot.)

Now, thanks to technology, the NSA as well as the National Direct Marketing
Board knows I buy a lot of frozen dinners, pink grapefruit juice, and Heineken
Dark beer.

SO-F*CKING-WHAT?

I don't get it. Clue me in. Where's the evil?

-- 
Kenneth R. Crudup, Contractor, OSF DCE QA
OSF, 11 Cambridge Center, Cambridge, MA 02142	+1 617 621 7306
kenny@osf.osf.org			OSF has nothing to do with this post.
Not one of the "PC" weenies.
From: spike@coke.std.com (Joe Ilacqua)
Newsgroups: ne.general
Subject: Re: Speaking of ATMs
Date: 10 Sep 92 18:50:15 GMT
Distribution: ne
Organization: Software Tool & Die

In article <BuCCJo.EJn@world.std.com> grady@world.std.com (Dick Grady) writes:
<I wondered what incentive these stores have in installing this
<system (after all these terminals cost money).  I figure that some-one
<wants to collect information on who buys what.  After all, the scanner has
<just recorded everything you bought; now they have your ATM account
<number, which identifies you.

	Well the system Purity is using does not seem to be
interconnect with the register.  The cashier has to entry the amount
of the charge into the card system.  Not that there couldn't be some
connection in the future.

	Also many bank cards just carry a bank card number, not your
account number.  Your bank would have to sell this information before
it could be useful to anyone.  That would be a bad move in terms of
security for them.

	As other people have pointed out it is likely that payment via
bank card is much cheaper/safer than handling checks.  I bet it means
much faster access to the money too.  No waiting days for checks to
clear.

>(Good grief, maybe they capture your PIN also.)

	I don't think the banks would like that.  But hey, maybe it
records your finger prints when you enter your PIN.

<Well, I value my privacy too much to play this game.  I'll keep on using
<cash, thank you!

	That is your right.  Me, I like the thing and really don't
care if someone figures out what breakfast cereals I eat.

->Spike
--
The Truly K00L don't have signatures.
From: ffitter@world.std.com (Fawn Fitter)
Newsgroups: ne.general
Subject: writer needs recent college grads for article
Keywords: networking jobs career
Date: 16 Sep 92 01:33:24 GMT
Distribution: ne
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA

I am writing an article on networking, i.e. "schmoozing," for a
publication that goes to college students about to enter the job market. 
I need to get comments and/or anecdotes from at least 4 or 5 more recent
(within the last 3 years) graduates who got their current jobs through
networking and can tell me exactly how they did it.
If interested, please email me at ffitter@world.std.com.  Be sure to
include your full *real* name, your school, year of graduation, degree,
and field of study, as well as the best way for me to contact you with
further questions.
I am on a tight deadline and would appreciate your response by 9/21.
Thank you!
From: navsaria@bass.bu.edu (Dipesh Navsaria)
Newsgroups: ne.general
Subject: Re: Registry--not as bad as everyone says?
Date: 5 Sep 92 14:13:35 GMT
Reply-To: navsaria@bass.bu.edu (Dipesh Navsaria)
Followup-To: ne.general
Distribution: ne
Organization: Boston University

I'm in the process of getting my driver's license, and I found that I never had
to wait more than 15 minutes at Nashua Street.  I was quite astonished.  
Calling on the phone is still pretty bad, though.  You can never get through...

Lawrence was where I took my first road test...I was not impressed by the site,
and the examiner was a total jerk...very, very pushy.

Just my opinion...

			     Dipesh Navsaria
			 (navsaria@bu-pub.bu.edu)
	   Practice Random Kindness and Senseless Acts of Beauty
From: pshuang@athena.mit.edu (Ping-Shun Huang)
Newsgroups: ne.general
Subject: Re: BayBank
Date: 10 Sep 92 14:26:43 GMT
	<18m3n0INN51k@early-bird.think.com>
Distribution: ne
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

In article <18m3n0INN51k@early-bird.think.com> barmar@think.com (Barry Margolin) writes:

 > This is probably why they require you to get a $5,000 Reserve Credit line
 > in order to get the Xpress Check card.  Charging a few hundred dollars on
 > the stolen card won't result in checks bouncing, since overdrafts are
 > automatically covered by the credit line.

Uhum. Maybe you've got a $5,000 reserve credit line :) but I sure don't.
I think they only require that you have a reserve credit line, not how
much it is for (although there is probably some minimum reserve credit
line). It would be nice if we could choose the "credit card limit" as a
percentage of the reserve credit line, e.g. if I have a $1,000 credit
line, to be able to specify that the Xpress check limit is $500, so that
I know I still have a $500 "slack" for preventing bounced checks.

--
Ping Huang (INTERNET: pshuang@athena.mit.edu), probably speaking for himself
Newsgroups: ne.general
From: ptrei@bistromath.mitre.org (Peter Trei)
Subject: Re: Privacy and POS (Re: Speaking of ATMs)
Organization: The MITRE Corporation
Distribution: ne
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 15:34:48 GMT

In article <lb1s4pINNjrl@news.bbn.com> levin@bbn.com (Joel B Levin) writes:
>kenny@osf.org (Kenneth Crudup) writes:
>>I still don't understand what the harm is. What can they do with such useless
>>information? It's not something relevant like how much money I've got in my
>>bank/investment accounts, for example.

>Wait till they can break this down into what magazines and newspapers
>you buy.  Wait till political organizations learn they can obtain this
>information.  Wait till one of these parties is in power and the
>government decides it can use this information.  And so on.

>No thanks.

>	/JBL

     Or what videos you rent. (I think there's actually a law on this
one - someone high up was embarassed a couple years ago).

     Or how much liquor and/or tobacco you buy (and they will presume
that you use). Insurance companies and potential employers would like
that data.

     Anytime you use plastic or write a cheque, you leave a record of
your business at a vendor. Anytime the vendor uses a barcode scanner
as well, you can be linked to the product.

     If you use plastic, assume that the transaction will be
permanently available for scrutiny by any interested person. This is
the worst case, but we seem to be rapidly approaching it.

     I don't know what we should do to improve privacy in this
country, but we need to do something. Until then, ATMs are the main
users of my plastic.

							Peter Trei
							ptrei@Mitre.corp

Xref: sparky ne.seminars:214 ne.housing:1135 ne.politics:2305