HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ksm@abb-sc.abb-sc.com (Ashley)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Youthful experiences
Date: 5 Oct 92 22:42:18 GMT
Organization: Kaos Laboratories


 Hullo folks - 

	As a latecomer to the group I probably did not see the impetus of the 
current topics, but it seems to me that many of us Pagan-folk where ostricized 
at a young age. Social outcasts, invisible children or outright loathed by the 
masses around us. Is this painful awakening in any way reposible/related to our 
being Pagan? one might see being Pagan as a form of protest/revolution if 
viewed in the right context. 

	I also had an extraordinarily painful childhood, being well known and 
hated by other children and even adults for my refusal to compromise who I was 
and be what they wanted me to be. Any attempt to do so was met with sneers of 
contemptous superioriy anyway, so what was the point? This helped give me an 
inner rage that I still have to this day. Useful. Even though one must clean 
it first, anger IS an energy (quote:Johnny Rotten).

	Anyway, I have noticed that these experiences are common to many of us 
and aside from a family traditionalist who was trained from birth, I have never 
met a witch who was voted Ms. Congeniality / Mr. Personality in school. What 
are your experiences?


			- Ashley

		"Dreams are like water......colorless and dangerous"
From: ymir@eagles.uucp (Ymir Thunarsson)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Hi La Mort.
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 92 16:56:57 CDT
Organization: Eagles Reaches Church of Asatru - Elder Hof

Heilsa La Mort. (Death)!

  Thank you so much for the kind words of welcome. I look forward to sharing
ideas, general conversation and much, much more with you, as well as, with
others on this net (hopefully). Let me know what is going on your way and I
will share what is happening here at EAGLES REACHES. Until then...BE TRUE!

                          Wassail !
                          Ymir Thunarsson
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: aaldrich@encore.com (Al Aldrich)
Subject: Re: another poem
Organization: Encore Computer Corporation
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 20:51:50 GMT

marty@world.std.com (Marty M HaleEvans) writes:


>However, I just can't get around hating what you call "feminine" women. 

I haven't heard anyone say they hate `feminine women'..I believe the 
argument is that ALL women are feminine because they are women, and that
any other measure is purely artificial.


>I used to feel the way you do, that's why I want to make this statement. I 
>like to think I've gotten past it. Even though I tend to have a knee-jerk
>reaction to "pretty" women, I've now met enough of them I respect to catch
>myself, and I've made enough peace with my own self-image that I don't need
>to blame hurts from the past on innocent passers-by. I'm thinking in particular
>of two co-workers of mine, both of whom I refused to trust when I first met
>them: one is a tall, thin, gorgeous Englishwoman, and another is a soft-spoken
>blonde, blue-eyed waif. However, as I got to know them, I realized they hadn't
>a snotty bone in their bodies, and are both great people; the former is working
>on some personal problems with a strength and grace I marvel at, and the latter
>has one of the sharpest feminist minds I know.

You defeat your own argument by defining pretty, gorgeous,etc...as slim,
tall, blonde and blue-eyed and soft mannered. I certainly have not heard
anything either that sounds like undermining or devaluing women by the
participants in this thread. Sounds to my ears all pretty much directed
toward clueless people regardless of their gender. 

Just my $.02
/al

I know I deleted a lot of stuff, but I get tired of really long line
by line picking apart of peoples words. I think you get the idea..

Blessed Be


-- 
Al Aldrich	inet:aaldrich@encore.com
"..if you understood everything I said, you'd be me." miles davis
----------------------------------------------------------------------
MY opinions are not to be construed as those of my employer.
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Mabinogian
From: hobbs_a@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz (Anthony 'the Bard' Hobbs)
Date: 27 Sep 1992 22:57:38 GMT
Reply-To: hobbs_a@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
 <1992Sep24.181819.9301@radian.uucp>,<librik.717554423@cory.Berkeley.EDU>
Organization: Wellington City Council (Public Access), Wgtn, Nz
NNTP-Posting-Host: kosmos.wcc.govt.nz

In article <librik.717554423@cory.Berkeley.EDU>, librik@cory.Berkeley.EDU (David Librik) writes:

>        Gwyr a aeth Gatraeth gan wawr   ("Men went to Catraeth with the dawn")
>in Modern written Welsh, that would be:
>        Aeth gwyr i Gatraeth gan wawr
>Think of the difference between the English of "Beowulf" (three hundred years
>after the Gododdin) and modern English.  Of course, in modern SPOKEN Welsh,
>the above line would be:
>        Mi ddaru i wyr fynd i Gatraeth efo'r wawr

Well, in the version *I* learned ("Cymraeg Byw"), that'd be

	 Fe aeth wyr i Gatraeth gyda'r wawr

which is a bit closer to the written language, but then, I'm a New Zealander, 
what'd I know? :-) Yours looks like North East Wales dialect to me...

anthony (mae hen wlad fy nhadau yn annwyl i fi...)
--
Anthony Hobbs    	Schwaibo	    hobbs_a@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
OverPope, First Holy Reformed Church of Snack Food - Kate Bush Is Goddess

DISCLAIMER: I am not Romanian and was not head of the Securitate for 15 years.
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: jill@gopher.ccbr.umn.edu (Jill Hollifield)
Subject: Re: Hey, Babe . . . What's Your Sign?
Organization: Coordinating Centers For Biometric Research, University of Minnesota
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 15:29:01 GMT


Here 'tis:  Born January 19, 1966, 5:14am, Bangor ME.
Sun sign is Capricorn, but I don't see it!  Don't know about the rest -
that might shed some light on my non-Capricorniness.

Jill
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: corun@access.digex.com (Corun MacAnndra)
Subject: Re: Who do you kneel to when you pray?
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 01:21:43 GMT

In article <1992Sep25.204527.4259@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes:
>
>Since gods are the creations of the worshippers, they are indistinguishable.
>That is an interesting thought because, if true, then there either are a lot
>of different gods with the same name or each god with the same name just has
>a large number of personalities.

Now that is an interesting idea. Shades of Sybil. Schizophrenic gods.

"It's like a Hindu nightmare!" Nick Danger's comment about Lt. Bradshaw going
schizo in the episode _The Three Faces of Al_ (just for you Firesign fans)

>I still disagree. I do not believe that simple profanity is an invocation 
>of your deity. I believe it to be a strong expression of displeasure, nothing
>more. Words have power, when you want them to have power - simply using them
>does not make them powerful. When you pray, or perform any other ritual, in
>which you invoke a god - then you are conscientiously doing so. You could 
>just as easily do so without god/goddess names, just a visualization. If you
>wished, you could easily have a deity with no name - even few characteristics,
>if that is what you wished. Such a deity would be just as valid as any other.

There is alot going on in the average subconscious mind. Can anyone be
certain that the profanity they use is not really an invocation? Can we not
therefore imbue these words with power subconsciously?

>Agreed - assuming that you believe that any such invoking can produce 
>undesireable consequences. It all comes down to personal belief. If you
>believe that making a statement of displeasure (which happens to contain
>the name of a diety) is invoking that deity, then I can understand your
>feelings.

And that and my comment above about subconscious direction of power into
words is really what it's all about. I don't have a deity that I follow,
so I often say "God Damn it!" or "Christ on a mini bike!", but if I feel
an inner twinge that I should be careful (and I think alot of the folk here
can say they've felt and recognized similar twinges of wrongness), I won't
do it. I only say what I've said to give everyone here something to think
about. What's right for me isn't necessarily right for anyone else.

>I think it would be better to state that one should not perform any sort
>of magical ritual without being aware of possible consequences. For that
>matter, a person should not perform any kind of ritual, without being
>aware of possible consequences. Magic need not be involved.

Agreed, but it applies to everything, even profanity.

Bb,

Corun


-- 
===========================================================================
    Corun MacAnndra    | To sit with a pretty woman for an hour seems like
  Dark Horde by birth  | a minute. To sit on a hot stove for a minute seems
    Moritu by choice   | like an hour. That's relativity. --  A. Einstein
From: c1741@moncol.monmouth.edu (MICHAEL CARSON)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: another poem
Date: 29 Sep 92 15:56:08 GMT
Organization: Monmouth College, W. Long Branch, N.J.  07764

In article <1992Sep28.233619.25767@ncsu.edu> blchapma@eos.ncsu.edu (BEKKI LYN) writes:
>
>In article <7605@monmouth.edu>, c1741@moncol.monmouth.edu (MICHAEL CARSON) writes:
>	[stuff on insulting news report on H.Clinton deleted]

>I'm still getting over the chocolate chip cookies...

	Huh?  I know I live in a cave, but what happened between H.Clinton and
the choclate chip cookies?

|o|\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/|o|
|o| Of Course I speak  |      michael carson       | Carpe Diem, Man.        |o|
|o|  only for myself.  | c1741@moncol.monmouth.edu |                -me      |o|
|o| Would YOU let me   +---------------------------+-------------------------|o|
|o|  speak for you?!?  |      All flames to: nobody@moncol.monmouth.edu      |o|
|o|\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/|o|
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: radzy@ICSI.Berkeley.EDU (T. O. Radzykewycz)
Subject: Re: night and winter
Organization: International Computer Science Institute, Berkeley, CA, U.S.A.
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 23:02:55 GMT

electric@meltdown.chi.il.us (Rick Martinez) writes:
> My favourite weather.....Rain.  There's nothing like a good electrical storm
> to get my spirits up.  I feel closer to nature when out in the rain.  Why?
> Because nature is asserting itself and becoming the key aspect of every persons
> day who is in the area of the rain.

I, too, love the rain.  When we first moved to the San Jose area, the
winters were plenty rainy enough -- people were talking about how there was
sooooo much rain and they hadn't seen that much rain in years.  I felt right
at home.  Then, we started this drought, and I find that I've become HOMESICK.
For a couple YEARS, I didn't feel very homesick.  Then there wasn't enough
rain, and I started feeling it.

As for electrical storms, I love them, too.  But that's a different story
and I don't feel up to talking about it right now.

Blessings!

		-- radzy

------------------------------------------------------------
					|  An it harm none,
	T. O. Radzykewycz	     	|  do as ye will.
	The Incredible Radical Cabbage	|
					|  "Just pray for a
	radzy@cogsci.berkeley.edu       |  tough hide and a
	        			|  tender heart."
	        			|    -- Ruth Graham
------------------------------------------------------------
Tribal Mother was old, and lay ill on a bed of moss and
fern.   Her hair was long and grey.   Her face was very
wrinkled.    Tamura'nun-pa thought:   How beautiful you
are, Mother, so old and wise.
From: t00022@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: I was wondering....
Date: 28 Sep 92 20:06:32 GMT
Reply-To: t00022@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU
Organization: St. Cloud State University, St. Cloud, MN

I like it, I like it!  And it doesn't seem all that Christian to me.  Do you still write poetry?
From: pkappess@erc.cat.syr.edu (Peter Kappesser)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Thanks
Date: 4 Oct 92 01:11:17 GMT
Organization: Electronic Resource Center, Syracuse

In article <1992Sep30.154101.3863@news2.cis.umn.edu> jill@gopher.ccbr.umn.edu (Jill Hollifield) writes:
>
>My name is Jill, and I just wanted to say thanks to all of you who post
>regularly to this group.  I just discovered you about a month ago, and
>have enjoyed the humor, support, and sharing that goes on here.  I am
>a solitary practitioner, and its really nice to have found a group I
>can participate in.
>
Hello and welcome! I'm relatively new here too ... I was lurking for quite some
time, mainly because it took me a while to figure out how the system worked,
how to read messages effectively, and how to use this idiotic editor to reply!
But I enjoy the atmosphere here too. There's just so much love and sharing
around here ... as if we had our own circle! That's important to me, since
I'm a solitary practicioner too, and it's great just to be able to talk about
things with others who understand.

Bright Blessings,
			-- PeterCat
From: ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Ren Festival???
Date: 30 Sep 92 06:49:23 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

kditto@nyx.cs.du.edu (Kimborly Ditto) writes:


>Where is the Ohio Renissance (I can't spell, 'scuse me :)) held??
>Is it far from Toledo?  When does it run?  Is it still going on??

I will post to avoid having to answer this more than once.

The Ohio Renaisance Festival is over for the year.  It ran for six weekends--
from mid-August to the last weekend in September.  (In fact, Kamala didn't get
back until this very afternoon.)

It is near Dayton, about an hour north of Cincinatti.  I don't have exact
directions, but if you email me next summer, I will mail you the dates and
directions.  I can also tell people the dates for Bristol or Colorado. 


              Merry meet, merry part, merry meet again,
                               Br'anArthur

Queer, Peculiar, and Wyrd! :-)

******************************************************************************
Newage is hypoallergenic spirituality--
it's for people who are allergic to the word religion.
                                   --Jon Jay Obermark
From: jimoates@panix.com (Jim Oates)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Wanted: E-Mail Friends
Summary: Looking to Make Friends Via E-Mail
Keywords: Paganism
Date: 2 Oct 92 20:46:56 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC


I'm interested in corresponding, via E-Mail, with anyone
interested in taking a novice "under their wing".

I find this all very fascinating, and I'd like to talk
with people about their experiences.

I'm willing and eager to find out more.  I've been searching
for a long time for a "spirituality" that I can embrace,
and would like to talk with anyone who thinks that
this is it.

I love to write, and love interesting conversation.

Thanks...
Jim



jimoates@panix.com




-- 
Admit Nothing
Blame Everyone
From: simcock@waikato.ac.nz
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: righteous anger
Date: 29 Sep 92 18:29:00 +1200
Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand

In article <1992Sep27.033452.3825@ncsu.edu>, barclay@RAIL9000.gatech.edu (Barclay Blanchard) writes:
> A friend and I were discussing religion the other day.  She's Christian but is
> very cool.  She said that she couldn't really begin to love and trust God 
> until she was able to get angry with Him.  That was also my spiritual 
> breakthrough.  I'd been in therapy for about a year and was finally realizing
> how little nurturing my parents gave me.  I got really pissed off at Goddess/
> God and cussed her/him out for a few days.  And it was when I realized that
> Goddess/God could understand my anger and love me because of it that I
> realized how much I love Goddess/God and get from Her/Him/Them.  It's not
> as if they'll promise me a fair life or replace my parents for me... it's too
> late for that.  But getting angry at the Deity(s) was a major step in my 
> self-healing process.
> 
> Has anyone here had similar experience?
> 
> Do you find this blasphemous?  (I ask out of curiosity; I won't change my mind
> ... it's not at all blasphemous for me.)
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Barclay Elizabeth Blanchard    barclay@rail9000@gatech.edu
> "I've been laughed at by some of the funniest people."
> --Lissie, Alice Walker's _The Temple of My Familiar_


I was raised sort of agnositic/humanist. I found it easy to get aggro at the
 Gods, Goddesses, Spirts, and other Powers That Be.
I recently made the strongest connection with my deities when I could say 
"Hey, I love you babe." (Okay I should show some respect).
It was electrifing.


					-Matthew.
Xref: sparky alt.pagan:10645 alt.religion.sabaean:41
From: lilleyc@cs.man.ac.uk (Chris Lilley)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,alt.religion.sabaean
Subject: Silver Bough
Date: 5 Oct 92 20:22:08 GMT
Followup-To: alt.pagan
Organization: Dept Computer Science, University of Manchester, U.K.

Hi there

I have had a couple of mails and seen some postings enquiring about
the Silver Bough which I refered to in a posting last week. It seems
some people are confusing it with the (perhaps similarly named, but
quite different) Golden Bough.

So here is the ref in case you want to look it up.

McNeill, Florence Marian (1885-1979) 'The Silver Bough, a four volume
study of the national and local festivals of Scotland'.

There are several imprints that I have seen, 1959 Glasgow: MacLellan
is I believe the original, it was republished by them in 1968 and
reprinted by Cannongate Press of Edinburgh in 1989.

The four volumes are:

1) Scottish folk-lore and folk belief
2) A calendar of Scottish national festivals: Candlemass to Harvest
Home
3) A calendar of Scottish national festivals: Halloween to Yule
4) The local festivals of Scotland.


While on the subject, I came across the following ref which looked
interesting though I have not run down a copy yet:

Napier, James 'Folk lore; or, superstitious beliefs in the West of
Scotland within this century. With an appendix shewing [sic] the
probable relation of the Modern Festivals of Christmas, May Day, St.
John's Day and Halloween, to ancient sun and fire worship' Paisley:
Alex Gardner, 1879.

They don't make snappy titles like that anymore...

--
Chris Lilley
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technical Author, ITTI Computer Graphics and Visualisation Training Project
Computer Graphics Unit, Manchester Computing Centre, Manchester, UK
Internet:   lilley@cgu.mcc.ac.uk        Janet:   lilley@uk.ac.mcc.cgu
Voice:      +44 (0)61 275 6095          Fax:     +44 (0)61 275 6040
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: pharvey@mipos3.intel.com (Paul Harvey)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Rain was (night and winter)
Date: 1 Oct 92 20:16:31 GMT
	<electric.9071@meltdown.chi.il.us> 
	<1992Sep29.230255.28457@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>
Organization: Press *REWIND* if I haven't blow your mind.

In article <1992Sep29.230255.28457@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> 
radzy@ICSI.Berkeley.EDU (T. O. Radzykewycz) writes:
>electric@meltdown.chi.il.us (Rick Martinez) writes:
>> My favourite weather.....Rain.  There's nothing like a good electrical storm
>> to get my spirits up.  I feel closer to nature when out in the rain.  Why?
>> Because nature is asserting itself and becoming the key aspect of every persons
>> day who is in the area of the rain.
>I, too, love the rain.  When we first moved to the San Jose area, the

Speaking of rain, you peoples who love rain gotta love Hana, Maui, Hawai'i.
It's the wet side of the island, the eastern side of Haleakala gets 300-400
inches of rain per year and all that fresh water just pours down through
the porous volcanic soils and makes the sheltered ocean coves almost fresh
water. Hana is 75-85 oF year round. What you do is go to your favorite cove,
take your clothes off and cover them so they don't get wet and then sit back
and enjoy. It'll be hot and sunny for about an hour and then the clouds will
come in and it'll rain for half an hour or so and then the sun comes back, and
this just repeats all day, almost everyday. So you can go swiming in the cove,
bath in the sunshine and bath in the rain. In the evening, you can listen to 
the rain and watch the electrical display offshore while burning some kukui
(candle) nuts. It's cool to spend about a week over there or so, after awhile 
you get saturated, then it's time to go back to the dry side of the island,
where they only get 10 inches, and dry out. Maybe do some apple bananas and
some passionfruits and a soursop or two or catch a coconut and eat it.
From: gil@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au (Gil Hardwick)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: The Serpent
Distribution: world
Date: Mon, 05 Oct 92 04:22:05 GMT
Organization: STAFF STRATEGIES - Anthropologists & Training Agents

Also the dragon.

Gil

--
Gil Hardwick                                      gil@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au
Independent Consulting Ethnologist                            3:690/660.6
PERTH, Western Australia                                 (+61 9) 399 2401
   * * Sustainable Community Development & Environmental Education * *
From: ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com (Ailsa N.T. Murphy)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Trad and Non-Trad in Seattle [Was:  Request for Info - Samhain]
Date: 30 Sep 92 14:36:43 GMT
Reply-To: ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com (Ailsa N.T. Murphy)
Organization: Ailanthus Project

marty@world.std.com (Marty M HaleEvans) writes:

> Ailsa --
>
> Would you also say that rejecting homosexual imagery is not, essential
> rejecting homosexuals?
>
> Just curious,
>
within ritual, whihc is the context of whihc i was speaking, no.  you
use the imagery that means somethign to you.  if symbolizing lesbian
sex does nothgin for you an an emotional or spiritual level, then it
woudl be ratehr pointless to base a ritual on it.  in large group
rituals, one has to make do with whatever one finds, but when one is
structuring one's OWN rituals, making them to fit oneslf is only good
sense.
>
> =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
> "Another beer, and then he eyes                 marty@world.std.com
> The barmaid's legs and waist and thighs.        Marty Hale-Evans
> 'Needs to lose some weight,' he grunts,         89 Mass. Ave., Suite 1
> 'But just the same, I'd fuck her once.'         Boston, MA  02115
> He orders pizza, buys a round,              M    @    *    O    %    8
> Gains an appetizing pound."                \|/  \|/  \|/  \|/  \|/  \|

LOVE your sig quote!  what's it from???  like the flowers too...  B)

                                             -ailsa

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
                    ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com
Desire.  The weight of.  The weight of our              ________
desire.  Then laugh, cry, but laugh             Silence \      / Action
more than you cry, and when you hold               =     \    /    =
the world in your hands, love Her.               Death    \  /    Life
                     - Alma Luz Villanueva                 \/
From: haley@husc10.harvard.edu (Elizabeth Haley)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: the chocolate chip cookie that ate Cleveland
Date: 2 Oct 92 08:22:15 GMT
 <1992Sep30.224403.5325@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> <17755@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> <2ACBB64F.2220@news.service.uci.edu>
Distribution: na

Somehow, this reminds me of the wonderful theory of a friend...
There are 3 types of calories:
1. Nutritional Calories, supplied by foods that also supply vitamins
Minerals, etc.
2. Empty Calories, supplied by foods that have little or no other
nutritional value.
3. Beautiful Calories, Supplied by Chocolate.
Newsgroups: alt.pagan