HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: stame@emunix.emich.edu (Stewart Tame)
Subject: Re: "Harlan Ellison's Watching" by Harlan Ellison
Organization: Eastern Michigan University
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 16:33:26 GMT

In article <sterbenc-220193101322@150.130.23.185> sterbenc@ivhs.mot.com (Joe Sterbenc) writes:
>> And read _The Glass Teat_ to find out his opinion of Spiro Agnew.  One I
>> agree with heartily.
>
>*throws tantrum, kicking feet in air* I CAN'T FIND THIS #$%#$ BOOK! I 
>read it two or three times at school, but I can't find it anywhere now
>and I've never even SEEN "The Other...". If _anyone_ can help me out
>here, I'll be forever in your debt. Or at least for six to eight weeks.
> 

Lottsa luck.  The book is out of print and will set you back a hefty sum if
you *do* manage to find it.  However if I were ever faced with the daunting
task of compiling a list of The Ten Best Ellison books, this one would
definitely be on it.  Actually I'd probably cheat and try to count _The
Glass Teat_ and _The Other Glass Teat_ as one book . . . :-)  From time
to time I see copies of both appear in the local used book shop but it's
not exactly a dependably regular occurence . . . the sad fact is that most
people who own Ellison books are loath to give them up.  Most books in used
book stores are there because the owners didn't like them.

		-- Stewart "dreams of completing his Ellison collection
				someday" Tame

****************************************************************************
 I understand it's obligatory to mention Kibo somewhere in one's postings.
****************************************************************************
		Email:  stame@emunix.emich.edu
****************************************************************************
Disclaimer:  Not only do my opinions represent those of Eastern Michigan
University, but also those of Dan Quayle, Richard Nixon, Frank Zappa,
Pee-wee Herman, Bart Simpson, Tipper Gore, Murphy Brown, Maggie Thatcher,
and the Easter Bunny.
From: wismith@amelia.nas.nasa.gov (William R. Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Ancient History Novels
Date: 25 Jan 93 20:29:41 GMT
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA

gary g link writes:

	"Reindeer Moon" springs to mind as a reasonable anthro-novel...far
	better than the Jean Auel anthro-porn.


I second the recommendation for _RM_ and also her second book _Animal
Wife_.



William Sburgfort Smith
Intel, SSD
From: hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: John Sayles on Fiction and Movies
Date: 28 Jan 93 03:57:47 GMT
Organization: Clark University

I ran across this passage in John Sayles' book _Thinking In
Pictures: The Making of the Movie "Matewan"_ (good book if you can
find it): 

     Much is made of the differences between fiction and movies,
     yet in some ways they have more in common than movies and
     theater.  It is possible in fiction to "move the eye" around
     a setting, very much the way a tracking shot in movies does,
     by selecting and ordering details.  This is something that is
     very difficult in theater, because our eyes tend to make us as
     aware of the spotlight as of the object being lit, whereas in
     fiction and movies there is nothing *but* the object being
     described or seen on screen.  Generally in theater the eye is
     moved by the actors, whereas in both movies and fiction the
     eye can be led to wander away from characters to other
     important parts of the story.

     But finally, fiction is words describing images, where in
     movies you have the images themselves.  Fiction relies more on
     the imagination of the reader, while movies often seem to be
     imagination made solid.  This potential for solidity in
     movies, their ability to make you feel the tangible weight of
     objects, the immediate consequences of actions, has something
     to do with why some stories present themselves as movies and
     some don't.


Any comments?

In an e-mail conversation on this subject, another r.a.b.ster and I
came up with only two other film directors who, like Sayles, wrote
fiction (as opposed to screenplays) -- Doris Doerrie and Neil Jordan.
If anyone can think of other examples, please let me know.

Heather
HHENDERSON@vax.clarku.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: The Pentagon Papers and Prior Restraint
From: del_col@ab.wvnet.edu
Date: 27 Jan 93 13:52:02 -0500
Organization: Alderson-Broaddus College

In a recent posting SubGenius implied that the Nixon adminstration's efforts
to stymie the Pentagon Papers was not a bona fide case of prior restraint
because publication had already started before any action was taken.

The facts are as follows.

The first installments were published June 13, 1971.

Three installments later, the Justice Department obtained a temporary
restraining order from the Federal District Court in NY.  The gov't then
sought a permanent injunction.

On June 30 the Supreme Court voted 6-3 to reject Nixon's efforts.

The case was indeed one involving prior restraint--the effort to prevent 
publication of the remaining installments of the papers.  The majority opinions
repeatedly recognize that prior restraint was the paramount issue.

J. Del Col

 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: fi@grebyn.com (Fiona Webster)
Subject: Re: Most-anthologized English-language poem
Organization: Grebyn Timesharing
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 16:08:23 GMT

Michael Feld challenges us to guess what's *the* most anthologized
English poem of all time.  I'm really looking forward to seeing that
list of the top ten--computers can be so much fun sometimes.

The William Blake "Tyger" poem sounds pretty plausible, but I'll
throw in a few more what-the-hell guesses:

	--John Keat's "On a Grecian Urn"
	--Edgar A. Poe's "The Raven"
	--John Donne's "Song: Go and Catch a Falling Star" or
	   maybe the "no man is an island" one

Let's have some more guesses!

					--perhaps nauseatingly
					   over-enthusiastic of late,

							Fiona
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: vferguson@subway.enet.dec.com (Virginia Ferguson)
Subject: Re: Asimov on SF -or- Confessions of an pulp writer
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 15:55:06 GMT


In article <20JAN199320160346@rigel.tamu.edu>, spb0457@rigel.tamu.edu (SubGenius) writes...
> 
> 
>I just dug this up.  It's from a longish essay from the venerated pen
>of Dr. Issac Asimov entitled "Social Science Fiction."


Do you have the title of a book containing this essay?


Thanks for any info.
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:26127 soc.culture.turkish:14800 talk.politics.mideast:26116
From: bv652@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ilan Uri Woll)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,soc.culture.turkish,talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: hanif
Date: 23 Jan 1993 17:19:08 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: bv652@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ilan Uri Woll)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, yamen@cae.wisc.edu (Soner Yamen) says:

>Bildigim kadariyla "hanif" cahiliye devrinde Hz. Ibrahim (as)'a
>tabii olup, putlari reddedenlere deniyor.
>

It is EXTREMELY bad form to print a message in Arabic and not translate 
for the rest of us.

-- 
---  !      ^    !\  !
 !   !     /-\   ! \ !
___  !__  /   \  !  \!  
                        Avoid cliches like the plague" George Shaw
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:26089 comp.graphics.visualization:2065
From: jjh00@diag.amdahl.com (Joel Hanes)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,comp.graphics.visualization
Subject: Re: Book Review: The Scientific Image by Harry Robin
Date: 23 Jan 93 00:37:04 GMT
Reply-To: jjh00@diag.amdahl.com
Organization: Amdahl Corporation  Sunnyvale California


  rsquires@cyclops.eece.unm.edu (Roger Squires) writes:
>
>	On this subject, I've always wondered how good
>	the book(s) advertised in SciAm and SciNews are.
>	The ad I'm thinking of is the one with the graphic
>	of Napolean's Russian campaign.  As I recall the
>	price is reasonable, and am curious how it compares
>	to the high dollar books in these reviews.

_The_Display_of_Quantitative_Information_, Tufte

Philip Morrison's review in Scientific American positively
gushed -- it, and it's successor _Envisioning_Information_,
are on my do-definitely-buy-these-real-soon-now list.

E. Nobuyo Miya -- I'm sure you've read at least one of these. 
Whaddya think?

---
Joel Hanes 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,soc.culture.turkish,talk.politics.mideast
From: yamen@cae.wisc.edu (Soner Yamen)
Subject: hanif
Organization: U of Wisconsin-Madison College of Engineering
Date: 22 Jan 93 09:02:18 CST

Bildigim kadariyla "hanif" cahiliye devrinde Hz. Ibrahim (as)'a
tabii olup, putlari reddedenlere deniyor.

----

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: daq@fc.hp.com (Doug Quarnstrom)
Subject: Re: Read 'em and weep: Depressing novels (was books be don't censor)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 22:54:19 GMT
Organization: SPUGE
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.8 PL6]

SubGenius (spb0457@rigel.tamu.edu) wrote:
: Paul Lewis writes...
: >If you want depressing, how about _To Have and Have Not_ by Hemingway?  One of
: >my favorite books, but it certainly doesn't leave you very inspired.  Quite
: >fatalistic...
: 
: +-------------------------------------SubG------------------------------------+
: This sounds like a thread to me.
: 
: Graham Green's _Brighton Rock_ and Kingsley Amis' _The Anti-Death League_ both
: rank right up there in the take-a-warm-bath-and-slash-your-wrists league,
: portraying the ancient bearded myth as (as Twain sez it) `a malign thug.'
: 
: I've also found Camus (and all the rest of those angst-ridden Frenchmen) to
: routinely produce `downers.'

Although I suspect many people might find Camus somewhat uplifting.

Is there even a subject that will depress almost everyone?

doug
From: sph0301@utsph.sph.uth.tmc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Buried Treasure -or- So, whaddaya use for bookmarks?
Date: 25 Jan 93 16:19:16 GMT
Organization: Univ. of Texas School of Public Health

In article <1993Jan25.031919.24203@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> lorenzo@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (Eric Lorenzo) writes:
>I don't use anything quite as exotic, but have managed to hold onto the
>stub that they rip off your ticket when you board a plane.  Somehow this
>stub has lasted years and several books.

when I was travelling a lot that's what I used to use... still find old
ones stuck in books now and again.  now I mostly use little yellow
post-its...
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:26006 comp.graphics.visualization:2057
From: rsquires@cyclops.eece.unm.edu (Roger Squires)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,comp.graphics.visualization
Subject: Re: Book Review: The Scientific Image by Harry Robin
Date: 22 Jan 1993 09:13:09 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
NNTP-Posting-Host: cyclops.eece.unm.edu

In article <1993Jan22.075947.4032@nas.nasa.gov> eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya) writes:
>
>Second of two book reviews on visualization
>

	On this subject, I've always wondered how good
	the book(s) advertised in SciAm and SciNews are.
	The ad I'm thinking of is the one with the graphic
	of Napolean's Russian campaign.  As I recall the
	price is reasonable, and am curious how it compares
	to the high dollar books in these reviews.

rms
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:26056 comp.graphics.visualization:2062
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 13:37:25 CST
From: Cole Kendall <U48073@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,comp.graphics.visualization
Subject: Visual Display of Quantitative Information by Tufte

In article <1jodr5INNo1@lynx.unm.edu>, rsquires@cyclops.eece.unm.edu (Roger
Squires) says:
>
>        On this subject, I've always wondered how good
>        the book(s) advertised in SciAm and SciNews are.
>        The ad I'm thinking of is the one with the graphic
>        of Napolean's Russian campaign.  As I recall the
>        price is reasonable, and am curious how it compares
>        to the high dollar books in these reviews.
>
_The Visual Display of Quantitative Information_ by Edward Tufte,
some sort of professor at Yale (design? architecture ?).  He discusses
how to create informative data displays, using many examples from
journals, magazines and elsewhere.  I found it useful, but I am
in the business of displaying quantitative information.

Cole Kendall
From: revpk@cellar.org (Brian 'Rev P-K' Siano)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: "Harlan Ellison's Watching" by Harlan Ellison
Date: 28 Jan 93 17:25:58 GMT
Organization: The Cellar BBS and public access system

rafem@gvlf8-k.gvl.unisys.com (Ralph Marrone) writes:

> In article <1993Jan23.163706.18662@zip.eecs.umich.edu> stame@emunix.emich.edu
> >In article <93022.170004U19807@uicvm.uic.edu> <U19807@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:
> >>In article <leo.727693316@draconis>, leo@cp.tn.tudelft.nl (Leo Breebaart) s
> >>
> >>>Anyway, I have a question for the Harlan experts out there: in the book,
> >>>Harlan mentions working on a major Hollywood movie screenplay, but he is
> >>>so embarrassed about what eventually became of it that he doesn't even
> >>>want to tell us the name of that movie. But of course I'm just dying
> >>>to know which movie he's talking about. Does anybody know?
> >>
> >
> >Actually the screenplay was probably _I, Robot_ which was serialized in
> >Asimov's SF Magazine I believe. 
> 
> I believe Ellison's _I, Robot_ screenplay surfaced as an episode of Outer
> Limits, an early 60's TV program.
> 
	The movie was _The Oscar_, starring Stephen Boyd. Ellison was one of
three authors who'd worked on the film.

	The _I, Robot_ script was written in the early 1980s; never produced
(although Irvin Kershner and David Lean were reportedly interested in it),
it was published in _Asimov's_ a few years ago.

	IMHO, apart from one important plot point, I thought it would have
made an extraodrinary SF movie.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian "Rev. P-K" Siano                                  revpk@cellar.org

"Do I BELIEVE in the Bible? Hell, man, I've even SEEN one!!"
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Mints and books (was: Books we're too righteous to censor)
Date: 25 Jan 93 20:53:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: netcom.1993Jan25.205300.8815
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)

marcy@sqwest.wimsey.bc.ca (Marcy Thompson):
>Even worse, they somehow knew I had bought the [tacky winged unicorn]
>for a pubescent girl...

This may not have been knowledge, so much as statistical near-certainty.
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:26155 talk.politics.soviet:10683
From: muh@physics1 (Yury M. Mukharsky)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Robert Conquest's _The Great Terror_
Date: 24 Jan 1993 03:46:05 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization
NNTP-Posting-Host: physics1.berkeley.edu

In article <C1AL8J.KL@panix.com> gcf@panix.com (Gordon Fitch) writes:
>
>But it is certain that mistakes will be made, and the
>innocent sometimes executed, even if not very often.
>penalty being considered more important.  Therefore 
>they support the same idea of terror as Krylenko;
>the difference is that Krylenko was explicit.
>-- 
Oh, yes and manufacture of cars are cold-blooded murderers as well. It's
inevitable that somebody will be killed by these evil machines. Frankly,
even manufactures of baby goods are quite a monsters, every-body heard about
babies choked by pacifiers. As for medicines, I just can not find whom compare
these evil manifactures with. 

As for myself, probably less evil way of conduct will be to go out ab
and kill somebody. At least I'll do it explicitly. Any volunteers?

Yury M.

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: kate@cactus.org (Katherine M. Catmull)
Subject: Re: academic settings
Organization: Capital Area Central Texas UNIX Society, Austin, Tx
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 20:34:30 GMT



David Latane asks if anyone has ever actually played Humiliation.

I've played a version of it  in which you state the name of the
book you are most embarrassed not to have read. (No points for 
other people having read it; no wayto "win," really, except
by acclamation I suppose.)

I learned it at a New Year's Eve party, many years ago, from a
delightful and learned Welsh Classics professor.     

Kate



-- 
- - - - - - - -
kate@cactus.org
Be the voice of night and Florida in my ear.
From: trish_r@mind.ORG (Trish Rucker)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Contemporary Literature
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 04:34:48 -0500
Organization: Fortress Development HQ

I'd love to talk with others here who have similar literary interests:
 
Albert Goldbarth
Sharon Olds
the whole SUDDEN FICTION genre
Carolyn Forche
Tess Gallagher
Plath, Sexton, Berryman, et al
Theodore Roethke
Randall Jarrell
Margaret Atwood
Margaret Drabble
John Irving
Milan Kundera
Isaac Bashevis Singer
 
and much more ...
 
My regular Internet address is:
 
trish.rucker@ehbbs.gwinnett.com
 

 Hope to talk to you soon!
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:25847 sci.philosophy.meta:3108
From: miner@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,sci.philosophy.meta
Subject: Re: Relative clauses (was: Re: About Truth...)
Date: 20 Jan 93 20:47:01 CST
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

In article <1993Jan20.224839.16083@eff.org>, mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin) writes:
> In article <1993Jan20.092219.46543@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> miner@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:
> 
>>(In fact
>>the distinction's non-existent in spoken English,
>>unless the speaker is reading.  I haven't checked
>>to see whether Fowler points that out...)
> 
> This is false. The distinction does in fact exist in spoken English
> (and even when the speaker is not aware of it). Compare:

And you ask me to read:
> 
> The speech, which Clinton wrote himself in longhand, was shorter
> than expected.
> 
> The speech that Clinton wrote himself in longhand was shorter than
> expected.

Of course I read them differently.  When reading the first one I
represent the comma after "The speech" as a slight pause.

The point is that the non-restrictive type does not occur in the
spoken language.  Simply listen to spoken English (not English being
read aloud) and notice that you never hear (and hopefully cannot
imagine producing) a sentence like your first example above.

I realize it's rather surprising, but the non-restrictive relative
clause exists only in the written language.  I suppose a speaker could
purposely produce one, but it would sound quite strange.

> Each of these sentences is entirely speakable,

Yes--that isn't the point, as I hope I've made clear.  We can speak a
declarative sentence backwards if we wish; and lots of other things;
but in determining what people normally say we must listen.

[...]

> --Mike

> -- 
> Mike Godwin,    |"I'm waiting for the one-man revolution
> mnemonic@eff.org| The only one that's coming."
> (617) 864-0665  |                           
> EFF, Cambridge  |                   --Robert Frost 

-Ken
-- 
miner@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu | Nobody can explain everything to everybody.
opinions are my own      | G. K. Chesterton
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:25979 alt.sex:42816
From: walsh@optilink.COM (Mark Walsh)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,alt.sex
Subject: Re: Texas law-makers are stupid
Date: 18 Jan 93 22:39:17 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

From article <C0xqnv.7Ap@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>, by shulick@navajo.ucs.indiana.edu (Sam Hulick):
> In article <C0xDz1.6AL@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, StarOwl@uiuc.edu says most sayishly:
#>Homosexuality is not yet legal in all states of the union.  For example,
#>anything other than sex between a man and a woman in the missionary 
#>position is illegal in Tennessee.

> Har.  And just how did Texas law-makers plan on enforcing this law?  "Hey
> you, yes you!  I see you through that window!  Anal sex is illegal,
> you're under arrest!  But after I do your wife."  Seems like Texas
> law-makers are pretty dense.  As are other law-makers in other states.
> For instance, pre-marital sex is illegal in some states.  Good luck in
> enforcing THAT one.   Duhhh.

Tennessee == Texas?  Oh well, I was never that great at geography.

Most of these laws are relics from the previous century.  It is my
sincere hope that a hundred years from now, people will look back
at the late twentieth century attempts to legislate morality, roll
their eyes, and say "What were those stone age people thinking?"
-- 
Mark Walsh (walsh@optilink) -- UUCP: uunet!optilink!walsh
AOL: BigCookie -- Amateur Radio: KM6XU@WX3K -- USCF: L10861
"What, me worry?" - William M. Gaines, 1922-1992
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.arts.poems
From: jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy)
Subject: Re: New prize
Reply-To: jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
Date: 26 Jan 93 20:47:07

You're on for Feb 6 in Berkeley.  Cactus Taqueria will do fine unless
the profits from _Halo_ have been so large that Tom invites us all
to Chez Panisse.
--
John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305
*
He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams)
Subject: Re: Deconstructing Angelou
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, California
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 20:32:19 GMT

> francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir) writes:
>> Benjamin John McCall quotes the Inaugural Poem:
>
>>	... the mastadon, the dinosaur 
>>	who left dry tokens of their sojourn 
>>	here on our planet floor ...
>
>William Sapphire, of the New York Times, remarked that this conjured 
>up for him an image that he was not certain Angelou had intended. On 
>a related matter, did anyone else notice how often the Radio and TV 
>Johnnies granted Maya Italian citizenship? Maya Angelo: a cross-town 
>rival to Mama Celeste, perhaps.

That is the way Ms. Angelou herself insists her name
be pronounced (according to a different issue of The
New York Times).
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
rod williams -=- pacific bell -=- san ramon, ca -=- rjwill6@pacbell.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: akiy@siva.cs.titech.ac.jp (Akiyama Jun)
Subject: Re: Paradise Lost
Reply-To: akiy@cs.titech.ac.jp
Organization: Tokyo Institute of Tech., Dept. of Computer Science, Japan
	<1993Jan26.233845.13444@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Distribution: rec
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 06:40:06 GMT

(John G Norman) writes on books about "Paradise Lost":

> Two oldies but goodies:

> 1.  C. S. Lewis, A PREFACE TO PARADISE LOST

Many, many recommendations for this book.  I'll place it at the top of
my list of "How to Read 'Paradise Lost'" pointers.

> 2.  Christopher Ricks, MILTON'S GRAND STYLE
>     Briefly explains why Milton's language is so beautiful, so weird,
>     and so worth memorizing.

But isn't Milton's language worth memorizing because it's so
beautiful, so beautiful because it's so weird, and so weird because
it's so worth memorizing?  (And vice versas).   

> P.S. Read it aloud.

This is one of the ways I first survived Shakespeare, then Chaucer.
Definitely fun, although people might think strangely of me when I
start reciting epic poetry in the subways...  (But then, maybe not.)

Thanks for the advice.  I'll search for the books.

	Jun

--
           akiy@cs.titech.ac.jp|Amiga/Mac/IBM/NeXT/NEC (ugh)/Unix-box User   
UCLA undergrad, studying abroad|"False ideas may be refuted indeed by argument,
  Tokyo Institute of Technology| but by true ideas alone are they expelled."
    Natural Language Processing| ---John Henry Newman, _Apologia Pro Vita Sua_
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:26466 alt.president.clinton:1855