From: keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Re: Jedi powers
Date: 21 Nov 1992 10:34:47 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
NNTP-Posting-Host: punisher.caltech.edu

nnhill@david.wheaton.edu (Nathan N Hill) writes:

>[lots of stuff deleted]

>Kenobi's description of the rise of the Empire seems to indicate that Vader's
>turn was essential:

>ANH: "Vader helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi Knights...Now the
>	Jedi are all but extinct..."

>RotJ: "My mistake [training Vader inadequately] has had terrible consequences
>	for the galaxy.."

I took this to imply that there weren't any other "evil" Jedi.  I guess it 
only took one, though.  He knew thier limintations and how to best defeat
them.

>To me it seems clear that Vader's help was necessary to exterminate the Jedi
>so thoroughly. Incidentally, I think Obi-Wan was just being humble when he
>accepted responsibility for Vader's fall. Whatever anyone says, he was a super
>studly Jedi, one of the best ever. [and BTW I don't think he's 100 years
>old...more like seventy or seventy-five.]

Well, we haven't really seen any other Jedi that have been properly trained.
I like that older figure because it helps us understand why GM Tarkin thought
that Ben must surely be dead.  It is strange though that Ben was the only 
Jedi to survive...  did he avoid the fight?  Was he just too old?  Apparently
Tarkin knew about Kenobi, so surely the Empire must've looked for him.
Grand Moff Tarkin was the second-highest ranking Imperial official that we
see in the Trilogy (second only to the Emperor).

>Another tidbit, someone thought Ben could hide on Tatooine because he was
>near Luke, or Jabba; I say phooey. Jabba had no force-power, and Luke's
>untrained ability couldn't hide Ben's, or Vader wouldn't have sensed him on
>the Death Star. Not to mention that Leia, with lots of untrained
>force-sensetivity, was never detected by Vader even when he interrogated her.

This whole thing about sensing Jedi from such a distance is a bit silly.
Sure, Vader is able to sense that Kenobi is aboard the Death Star (but it
takes him a while to figure it out), and he is able to sense Luke's
force abilities in the Death Star trench, and also Luke on the Imperial
Shuttle, but I really think that it is a close-range thing.  I mean, at
the end of Empire, don't Vader and Luke share some mental message?  But
this doesn't mean that Vader knows exactly where Luke is.  The Force
comes from all around.  You might be able to sense someone's presence (or
at least the presence of the Force in action--being used by someone), but
I doubt it is so directional.

>I'm willing to play along with Zahn while I read his books, but I don't buy
>the Yoda-hid-by-the-cave theory. The only reason the Emperor knew about Luke
>was his ability to forsee the future somewhat. (And perhaps some Imperial
>Intelligence info. ...BTW is "Imperial Intelligence" an oxy moron?)

I don't like playing along with Zahn at all.  As I have posted before, I
think that he has put too emphasis on the Force in general, ruining the
mystic.  Now that he has assigned all of the strict rules as to the
Force's limits, etc., what is the point?  This isn't some role-playing-game
where we need the whole thing codified (although I hear he used the RPG
manuals as a source for his work--phththtt).  We never learn the limits
of Gandalf's or Merlin's powers...

keith