HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: manis@cs.ubc.ca (Vincent Manis)
Newsgroups: comp.edu,comp.lang.scheme,comp.lang.logo
Subject: Re: Spread of Scheme and SICP?
Date: 21 Dec 1992 10:08:58 -0800
Organization: Institute for Pure and Applied Eschatology
Distribution: net
NNTP-Posting-Host: columbia.cs.ubc.ca

As a college educator who uses Scheme, I believe that Logo is a better
HS preparation for university CS studies which use Scheme than Scheme
is. There are several reasons for this:

- most HS CS students will never take further CS studies, and Logo has
the virtue of having a syntax which is (though less elegant, to my eye)
easier to learn than that of Scheme. 

- the syntax of Logo is visibly different from that of Scheme, which
acts as a hook for a post-secondary CS teacher. Students who have
studied a language ``completely'' in HS sometimes show up at college or
university thinking that they have nothing more to learn, and take CS
courses for easy credits. By using a language which is visibly different
(though with much of the same semantics), it is possible to signal to
the students that something new is about to be learned (students
unfortunately use syntax as the major clue about what they're supposed
to be learning). 

- the ability and background of HS CS teachers varies widely. Some have
very strong CS backgrounds, and are quite capable of developing new
curriculum. Others have weaker CS backgrounds, and are only capable of
following an existing syllabus. Still others have essentially no CS
backgrounds (they may, for example, be `computer' teachers, whose
knowledge is essentially that of computer usage), and are not able to
teach the abstruse concepts required to teach somebody how to write
computer programs. Such teachers will at least do no damage if they are
using a language not used in post-secondary institutions. 

Although I believe that Logo would be a *wonderful* language for
high-school CS, I am very pessimistic about the likelihood of it
becoming widespread. First, in BC at least, CS is not receiving a great
deal of attention as a priority subject for in-service education; in
fact, CS12 (the intro to CS course in Grade 12) is not exactly
flourishing. Second, the HS teachers who are interested in learning how
to teach CS generally go and take a couple of university CS courses,
which generally use Pascal, Modula, or (heaven help us!) C. I think it
would take a real effort, including writing textbooks (Brian Harvey's
`Computer Science Logo Style' books are outstanding, but educators want
a choice of texts), pre- and in-service training courses, etc., to make
this happen. I'm not sure the will is there. 



-- 
\    Vincent Manis <manis@cs.ubc.ca>      "There is no law that vulgarity and
 \   Computer Science, Langara College     literary excellence cannot coexist."
 /\  100 W. 49th Ave, Vancouver, BC, Canada (604) 324-5205  -- A. Trevor Hodge
/  \ Co-author of ``The Schematics of Computation'', Prentice-Hall, Jan 1994
Newsgroups: comp.edu,comp.lang.scheme,comp.lang.logo
From: brent@ssd.csd.harris.com (Brent Benson)
Subject: Re: Spread of Scheme and SICP?
Organization: Harris Computer Systems
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 18:09:29 GMT
	<BzM8Iu.2Fx.2@cs.cmu.edu>

zitsky+@CS.CMU.EDU (Mark Ryan Miller) writes:

> I despise Lisp because it has too many constructs, and it's no fun.

This reminds me of what the King said to Mozart: "Too many notes" :-).
--
Brent Benson                     
Harris Computer Systems
Newsgroups: comp.edu,comp.lang.scheme,comp.lang.logo
From: nagle@netcom.com (John Nagle)
Subject: Re: Spread of Scheme and SICP?
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 06:08:25 GMT

caroma@ai.mit.edu (Carl R. Manning) writes:
>Hi,
>I was wondering if anyone is keeping track of how widely Scheme and
>SICP (Abelson and Sussman's Structure and Interpretation of Computer
>Programs) is being used in universities. 

       Well, I just bought the book "The SCHEME Programming Language",
thinking it was the reference manual.  It turns out to be a textbook
written by somebody at Indiana University for their own dialect of
Scheme.  Not in the same league with SICP.  Phrases such as
"high paradigmicity" appear.  I pity the students at Indiana who
have to use this thing.

       Maybe I can take the book back and get a refund.

						John Nagle

       
Xref: sparky comp.edu:2261 comp.lang.scheme:2846 comp.lang.logo:387
From: Chewy@cup.portal.com (Paul Frederick Snively)
Newsgroups: comp.edu,comp.lang.scheme,comp.lang.logo
Subject: Re: Spread of Scheme and SICP?
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 92 09:38:03 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: usa
  <1992Dec31.060825.1524@netcom.com>

For what it's worth, `The Scheme Programming Language' is not, to the best of
my recollection, used as a standalone text at Indiana University.

BTW, the term `high paradigmicity' didn't come from `The Scheme Programming
Language's author, Kent Dybvig.  It showed up in the foreword, which was
written by a professor at IU, Dan Friedman.  Dr. Dan is perhaps best known in
Scheme circles as one of the co-authors of `The Little LISPer,' which was the
text that initially got me hooked on Lisp (when I was in high school--it would
be some years yet before SICP would be written, and a year or two more after
that before I could understand it)!

When Dr. Dan coined the phrase `high paradigmicity,' he also acknowledged that
it was awkward but apparently could not find a more elegant way to say the
same thing.  If you wish proof that Dr. Dan isn't normally so elliptical, I
would gladly point you toward `The Little LISPer,' `Scheme and the Art of
Programming,' and/or `Essentials of Programming Languages,' all of which bear
his pen marks.

Again, to reassure you that all at Indiana is not lost, bear in mind that
while, like any large university, they do have some clunker texts, they also
have `The Little LISPer,' SICP, and others, and as far as staff goes, they
have people like Dan Friedman and Douglas Hofstadter.  I've had the pleasure
of meeting Dr. Hofstadter on a couple of occassions; unfortunately I cannot
say the same with respect to Dr. Dan.  Nevertheless, my memories of my time
spent in Lindley Hall in Bloomington, Indiana are mostly pleasant ones.

In any case, I'm sorry that you don't find `The Scheme Programming Language'
to your liking, but I'd recommend keeping it around as a reference, for which
I feel it is relatively well suited.

Paul Snively
Chewy@cup.portal.com
From: slimick+@pitt.edu (John C Slimick)
Newsgroups: comp.edu
Subject: Address for University of Central Florida
Date: 30 Dec 92 23:22:42 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Pittsburgh
Originator: slimick@unixd2.cis.pitt.edu


Could someone send me the email address of the Internet
administrator at the University of Central Florida, 
Orlando, FL? It would be greatly appreciated.

email to: slimick@tullah.upb.pitt.edu

THX in advance,
john slimick
university of pittsburgh at bradford

Newsgroups: comp.edu
From: hartley@emily.uvm.edu (Stephen J. Hartley)
Subject: AAHE 7 Principles
Keywords: AAHE undergraduate-education
Organization: University of Vermont -- Division of EMBA Computer Facility
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 23:48:51 GMT

  The January 1993 issue of the "Communications of the ACM" contains a
classified job advertisement from Northeast Missouri State University that
says they are "committed to AAHE's Seven Principles for Good Practice in
Undergraduate Education."  Does anybody know what they are?  Do you have a
journal reference?  What does AAHE stand for?  Thanks.  Send e-mail and I
will summarize for the net.
Stephen J. Hartley, Visiting Assistant Professor, office ph: (215) 895-2678
Math and Computer Science, Drexel University, Philadelphia, PA  19104
shartley@mcs.drexel.edu
Xref: sparky comp.edu:2238 comp.lang.scheme:2813 comp.lang.logo:379
From: gjc@mitech.com (George J. Carrette)
Newsgroups: comp.edu,comp.lang.scheme,comp.lang.logo
Subject: Re: Spread of Scheme and SICP?
Date: 22 Dec 92 12:13:42 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Mitech Corporation, Concord MA

In article <BRENT.92Dec21130929@amber.ssd.csd.harris.com>, brent@ssd.csd.harris.com (Brent Benson) writes:
> zitsky+@CS.CMU.EDU (Mark Ryan Miller) writes:
> 
>> I despise Lisp because it has too many constructs, and it's no fun.
> 
> This reminds me of what the King said to Mozart: "Too many notes" :-).
> --

It might remind you of it, but the better musical analog
when comparing scheme and common lisp would be a statement 
along the lines of

    "too many instruments, conflicting orchestration"

-gjc
From: oshea@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (michael oshea)
Newsgroups: comp.edu
Subject: WANTED: Info on how to open dialogue w/Spanish or LA sites.
Date: 27 Dec 92 16:00:34 GMT
Organization: University of Virginia

I am interested in opening a dialogue in English or Spanish
with Internet sites to discover how to access resources
available in Spanish.  For example, the equivalent of USA Today
in Spanish.  I would like to incorporate this type of
information into college-level Spanish courses I currently
teach.  Any ideas on how to proceed would be greatly
appreciated. Thank you. oshea@poe.acc@Virginia.EDU.
From: r0mill01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Newsgroups: comp.edu.composition
Subject: (Fwd: *C&CD*) RE: Documentation/MIL-STD (9)
Date: 29 Dec 92 23:33:02 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville


Entry: 9
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 92 15:23:24 -0500
From: kippi@porsche.visix.COM (Kippi Fagerlund)
Subject: RE: Documentation/MIL-STD (9)
Message-id: <9212282023.AA19566@nsx.visix.COM>
Reply-to: Computers & Composition Digest (R. Royar) <R0MILL01@ULKYVX.BITNET>

Marcy,

I saw your posting -- unfortunately I missed the previous posts -- I don't
get to read this newsgroup too often and the articles weren't available at
my site. Could you forward me the information you received about MIL-ST???

Thanks!

Kippi Fagerlund

kippi@visix.com

------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.edu.composition
From: r0mill01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Subject: (Fwd: *C&CD*) Do colleges require only first-year writing? (8)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 23:22:44 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville


Entry: 8
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 05:01:00 EST
From: IN%"RobertRoyar@Delphi.COM" Robert Royar, (C&CD Moderator)
Message-id: <1992Dec29.050100.v7.055.1.Grendel.Lair@Cratylus>
Subject: Do colleges require only first-year writing? (8)
Reply-to: "Computers & Composition Digest (R. Royar)" <R0MILL01@ULKYVX.BITNET>
Organization: Cratylus Educational Software

>From: CROWLEY@NAUVAX.BITNET
>Subject: Standardizing Composition Classes (*MBU*)
>Message-id: <01GSV3I45ZK08WX75X@ulkyvx.bitnet>

>    4.  Institutional politics:  I have concluded that the one thing that
>makes FE different from all other college courses is the fact that it is
>required.  If we don't require it, perhaps (this is a big perhaps) it might
>assume the status enjoyed by other university courses.

Does this mean that many colleges do not require other courses from all
students? We require math (which includes basic math if placed in it),
history, philosophy, intermediate writing, lit, and a few others. These are
all part of a 30+-hour "core curriculum" with standard syllabi (our admin
showed us accred-agency docs that suopport their claim that standard
syllabi are necessary for these courses) but what NYIT and our accreditors
call syllabi (10-25 page documents) are a bit more elaborate than what MBU
has been calling syllabi (which we would call course outlines).

As an undergrad I had to take 12 hrs of required German language (the
specific language was mandated by ones major which for me began as
Chemistry). I had to take history, and a few electives from a very
constrained range. Even at the senior level there was one required
(non-English) "elective" which I hated to have to take.

I assumed that most colleges had some required core courses. Is this just
naive?

 -- Robert Royar (RobertRoyar@Delphi.com) New York Institute of Technology
    "If the Russians can get rid of the Communists, the Americans can get rid
    of the Republicans."                                        - Rudy Rucker

------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.edu.composition
From: r0mill01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Subject: Documentation/MIL-STD
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 09:25:35 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville


Entry: 12
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 00:19 EST
From: Marcy Bauman <MLB14@PSUVM.BITNET>
Subject: RE: (Fwd: *C&CD*) RE: (Fwd: *C&CD*) RE: RE: So much CS,  so little time [LONG]
(2)(10)(16) (12)
Message-id: <01GSLHT3DW748WWG8Z@ulkyvx.bitnet>
Reply-to: Computers & Composition Digest (R. Royar) <R0MILL01@ULKYVX.BITNET>

Jonathan,

Thanks for the info about MIL-ST ???.  I will write to the address you sent
(which is on the previous screen, so Ican't refer to it more cogently.) I'd
like to know more about that, and my tech writing students would, too.

Couldn't help but notice that the brief overview of the software design
process that you sent didn't allow for documentation.  Does the long version
(contained in the document I'm about to send for) explicitly state when and
where and how documentation ought to be done?  I still don't know how to
counter the attitude that documentation is the expendable part of the
project because "once the users start using the system, they'll never need
the documentation anyway."

Marcy

------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.edu.composition
From: gjc@mitech.com (George J. Carrette)
Newsgroups: comp.edu,comp.lang.scheme,comp.lang.logo
Subject: Re: Spread of Scheme and SICP?
Date: 22 Dec 92 12:18:15 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Mitech Corporation, Concord MA

In article <CAROMA.92Dec21002710@cookie-crisp.ai.mit.edu>, caroma@ai.mit.edu (Carl R. Manning) writes:
> I'm trying to help someone
> who is trying to make an argument for a high school district to
> (continue to) allow teaching Logo rather than being restricted to
> Basic and Pascal.

Of course the -absolutely-last- thing that many high schools would
be guilty of doing is to possibly be preparing students to go 
to a place like MIT. 

Isn't there some kind of SAT or ACT that uses Pascal?


Xref: sparky comp.protocols.tcp-ip:5771 comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc:7194
From: trier@slc6.ins.cwru.edu (Stephen C. Trier)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip,comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc
Subject: Re: ShareWare TCP/IP Kernels for DOS / Rlogin / FTP ???
Followup-To: comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc
Date: 30 Dec 1992 15:41:44 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland OH (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc6.ins.cwru.edu

In article <C0202r.AIA@well.sf.ca.us> swslr@well.sf.ca.us (Larry Krone) writes:
>Does anybody out there know if / where ShareWare kernels for the above 
>systems can be had....Short of shareware, is anything available that
>can be licensed at a low cost per seat (under $50)....

Would you be satisfied with something free or even public domain, or do you
insist on the restrictions, guilt trip, and expense of shareware?  ;-)

There are lots of free software packages for MS-DOS that offer the services
you mention.  CUTCP supports telnet, rlogin, and FTP, among others.  If you
can be happy with telnet instead of rlogin, you can consider WATTCP with
MS-Kermit, NCSA Telnet, ka9q (if you are an educational site or a ham), or
the old Harvard PC/IP suite.  I'm sure there are others I've forgotten.

If you really, really, want shareware, you could try Win/QVTnet.  It runs
under Windows and offers telnet and FTP, among other services.

Followups to comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc, please.

-- 
Stephen Trier                      "We want to offer you a price that you
Network software type               just can't afford to take advantage of."
Case Western Reserve University         - Sales blurb from HSC Software
trier@ins.cwru.edu
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip
From: Jan.vOorschot@dnpap.et.tudelft.nl (Jan van Oorschot)
Subject: Re: RMON-Compliant Ethernet Monitors
Organization: Delft University of Technology, Dept. of Electrical Engineering
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 18:06:42 GMT

scoggin@mercury.delmarva.com (John K. Scoggin) writes:

>Does anyone have a list of RMON-compliant ethernet monitors?  I am familiar
>with Hewlett-Packard, TTC, and Novell - are there others?

we have developed a RMON compliant monitor for OS/2, BTNG
(Beholder, the next generation). You can get it
(plus source code) from:
	
	dnpap.et.tudelft.nl:/pub/btng/btng1*.zip
	
It is still in beta.
	
It include the Tricklet SNMP utilities library for both Unix and
OS/2. Somebody has ported Tricklet to DOS.

Documentation is still absent apart from an installation manual.

Jan

-- Ir. Jan van Oorschot.      --- Email: Jan.vOorschot@dnpap.et.tudelft.nl --
-- Data Network Performance Analysis Project                               --
-- CARDIT, Delft University of Technology ------------ Tel: (31)-15-786179 --
-- P.O.Box 5031, 2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands ------ Fax: (31)-15-784898 --
--
-- Ir. Jan van Oorschot.      --- Email: Jan.vOorschot@dnpap.et.tudelft.nl --
-- Data Network Performance Analysis Project                               --
-- CARDIT, Delft University of Technology ------------ Tel: (31)-15-786179 --
-- P.O.Box 5031, 2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands ------ Fax: (31)-15-784898 --
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip
From: dean@world.std.com (Dean S Banfield)
Subject: XDR - need implementation
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Distribution: comp
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 22:12:26 GMT

Hi,

We are writing a socket based api set and I want it to support heterogenus
platform use.  Sun seems to have a spec out for eXternal Data Representation
(XDR) so that two dissimilar machines can pass various data types without
regard to hardware implementation.

Our Suns speak happily toeach other, but our SCO box is left out in the cold
because SCO's TCP/IP doesn't supply the XDR calls.  Is there an XDR 
implementation for SCO (public or commercial)?

please e-mail me as I rarely read this group.
thanks in advance.


Dean Banfield
dean@world.std.com
-- 
Dean S. Banfield			Voice: (203) 656-1500
Real Decisions Corporation		FAX  : (203) 656-1659
22 Thorndal Circle			email: dean@world.std.com
Darien, CT 06820
From: taybh@hpsgm2.sgp.hp.com (Beng Hang TAY)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 01:30:13 GMT
Subject: Comer's book Vol 3 - TLI version?
Organization: HP Singapore Notes-Server
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip

Hi,
	According to the Comer's book "Internetworking with TCP/IP" Vol 3 BSD
	Socket Version, there is a companion book for TLI version. Does anybody
	know the TLI version is out?

	Thanx.

.Beng-Hang.
From: jbvb@vax.ftp.com (James B. VanBokkelen)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip
Subject: Re: Problems detecting a dead client connections ??????
Keywords: TCP crashes
Date: 29 Dec 92 20:05:00 GMT
Reply-To: jbvb@ftp.com
Organization: FTP Software, Inc., Wakefield, MA
Nntp-Software: PC/TCP NNTP

In article <1992Dec29.161908.951@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> sylvain@killians.gsfc.nasa.gov (Gregory Sylvain) writes:
    
    The problem manifests itself when the client end of a tcp client/server 
    connection desides to "go away".  (By "go away", this could mean that the 
    client crashed or that the client actually closed the connection with a 
    successfull call to shutdown(2).)

I'm not a real 4bsd internals expert, but as I understand shutdown(2), it
should send a FIN, initiating a normal TCP connection close handshake.
    
    Given that the connection is non-blocking on both ends.  And provided that
    the server isn't reading or writing from the socket at the time the client
    crashes, THE SERVER WILL NEVER DETECT THAT THE CLIENT ISN'T THERE ANYMORE.

This is true regardless of the blocking/non-blocking state of either end
of the connection, when one end's operating system (or TCP) crashes, or
network connectivity is suddenly lost.
    
    The next time around, when the server tries to read from the socket,
    the server will get an EWOULDBLOCK.  This make some sense, since there 
    obviously isn't any infomation left to read.  But why wont the server 
    get an error more like ECONNRESET or ECONNABORTED.

Ya pays yer penny and gets yer choice...

If you don't mind a steady stream of "keepalive" packets the whole time the
connection is open, then most TCPs will give you an indication when they
haven't gotten any traffic in some time T, whose exact value may be fixed
or configurable depending on the implementation.  On an SGI or other
4bsd-derived TCP, read up on SO_KEEPALIVE.  You might find that it is
easier to design the application protocol with a NOOP command, which can be
used to check connection liveness instead of a TCP keepalive.

But this may well annoy (or bankrupt) users of PayPerPacket networks, or
those with Dial On Demand serial links.  They'll want you to design your
application-layer protocol so that each end has some way of giving up after
waiting "too long", without probing the connection at all.

In short, if you need to know the state of the connection, you need traffic
of one sort or another, which has a cost.

James B. VanBokkelen		2 High St., North Andover, MA  01845
FTP Software Inc.		voice: (508) 685-4000  fax: (508) 794-4488
From: harvey@indyvax.iupui.edu
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip
Subject: Re: PCS WITH DUPLICATE TCP ADDRESSES
Date: 23 Dec 92 12:59:17 -0500
Organization: Indiana University-Purdue University at Indianapolis

In article <1992Dec22.191907.23824@mmm.serc.3m.com>, ccg@tcdsp1.mmm.com ("Charles Ganzhorn") writes:
> BOOTP is major bad idea.  You have to configure your routers to pass the
> silly stuff 'cuz you won't necessarily have a load host in all subnets.
> This means you lose the usual isolation that IP provides you between
> subnets (BOOTP uses a global IP broadcast).

Well, the routers we use (Ciscos) can be configured to forward global IP
broadcasts for specific IP protocols to specified sets of "helper" addresses.
This way you can have redundant BOOTP servers without "losing isolation."

Before using BOOTP you should certainly understand how this will affect points
of potential failure for the clients.  For example, is it acceptable for
workstation X to be unbootable or have IP disabled when router Y is down?

> Also, if your BOOTP logs all requests, a station whose download doesn't
> get satisfied typically requests every five seconds and ends up filling
> up the logs on systems.

Whoever wrote the client code should have have spared a few more instructions
in the boot code and made it back off exponentially to some upper limit on the
retry interval.  This isn't a failure of BOOTP, but a poorly designed client...

BOOTP is useful for other things besides loading a boot image.  You can use
it just to provide IP address, netmask, default router, default DNS servers,
and other servers, i.e., all the IP-related things that you have to configure
for individual workstations.

Used correctly, BOOTP can reduce workstation configuration headaches.
--
James Harvey    IUPUI OIT Technical Support/Networks
harvey@iupui.edu  harvey@indiana.edu  uucp:iugate!harvey  bitnet:harvey@indyvax
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip
From: apple@drvax3.msfc.nasa.gov (Kathleen Applegate)
Subject: Re: TCP/IP vs. PATHWORKS
Organization: NASA/MSFC
Date: 31 Dec 92 14:41:48 GMT

mjr@TIS.COM (Marcus J. Ranum) writes:

>mikeg@rocdec.roc.wayne.edu (Michael George) writes:
>>Recently DEC-NET changed its name to PATHWORKS.
           ^^^^^^^
You're probably thinking of DECnet-DOS, which was a Neanderthal 
predecessor to Pathworks.

>	No it didn't. DECnet's still DECnet. Pathworks is a product for
>PC desktop access to file and print and login services over a network.
>It can use either DECnet or TCP/IP as the transport layer.

Don't forget IPX.  You get the license for that when you buy the
basic Pathworks license ... you just have to buy the media and
documentation kit to actually implement it.  Of course, the IPX
only comes into play with a Novell server--the VMS and Ultrix
servers will expect either DECnet or TCP/IP.  Or at least that's
true until DEC releases its new product for Novell integration
that is an implementation of Novell's portable NetWare.

--
Kathleen Applegate, Sr. Analyst      apple@drvax3.msfc.nasa.gov           
Marshall Space Flight Center             Voice:  (205) 544-7656
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip