HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 11:04:47 -0400 
From: David Schroeder <ds4p+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Mundania Substitute

Good gentles,

Dorothea has asked the folk of the Rialto for recommendations for
a term that might be better than "Mundania" (avoiding Xanth references)
when one needs to speak of contemporary matters.

> Maybe there is a phrase we could use instead? that would indicate "the
> mundane world" unobtrusively and without referencing a clutch of books
> that by comparison make late 20th-century America look like The Enchanted
> Ground?  I invite suggestions.

Here's a suggestion.  I flipped through my handy-dandy Latin dictionary
looking for useful words in this context and found that "nunc" means "now."

I have a picture in my head of an experienced gentle confronting folks
discussing their latest D&D campaign at an event with waving hands and
mild rebukes of "Nunc, nunc!"  It might be fun to try.

It's also rather interesting to note that we'd be using "now" to mean
"later," a shift in word meanings that is not without precedent.  After
all, in modern speech, at least in some quarters, "bad" is "good."

In a similar vein I've often noticed computer-folk in face-to-face
meetings discover a topic that would take a long time to discuss, and
suggest that 
it be taken "off line," that is, outside the scope of _this_ meeting...

Much obliged for your indulgence, good gentles ("bad" gentles?)

  -- Bertram --

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bertram of Bearington                                      Dave Schroeder
Debatable Lands/AEthelmearc/East               Carnegie Mellon University
INTERNET: ds4p@andrew.cmu.edu                         412/731-3230 (Home)
------------------------- PREME * Press On * PREME ----------------------
      "He indulged in every excess, yes in each licentious whim..."      

From: Ruth.Woodring@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Ruth Woodring)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: West Fealty Ceremony?
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1992 19:08:04

Bertram, Ansteorra has no such fixed formula that I know of -- I've heard fealty oaths sworn that were everything from 'I am your man' to those that took five minutes on each side to swear.  Here they usually let the swearers use their own words, and they swear individually. It takes time.
 
Good knights, heralds, and nobles  of our fair land, pray correct this statement if it is wrong.

- Vashti of the Flaming Tresses, Steppes, Ansteorra (Dallas, TX) 

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
From: mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: The size of the Eastrealm
Date: 6 Apr 92 19:33:37 GMT
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM

Greetings from Arval!

Hal, your question about concentration of population is a good one.  I
don't know the figures for sure, but I would guess that 200 miles around
Ostgardr includes a good deal less than half our population.  However,
Justin's observation is key: We really don't have any concept of the
"center" of the kingdom.  Drachenwald and some groups in Canada, Maine, and
West Virginia are generally considered far away, but otherwise we would not
label any part of the kingdom as the center of activity.

Lindorm wrote:

> Eastern law does (or at least used to) implictly forbid Kingdom events to
> be in Drachenwald. (They shall cycle between the non-Drachenwald regions). 

Let me clarify: Crown Tourney is required to circulate through the five
North American regions.  Pennsic War has a fixed site.  Kingdom University
must circulate through the regions (no mention of Drachenwald one way or
the other).  The other kingdom events (Coronation, King's and Queen's
Champion Tournaments, Twelfth Night) may be held anywhere in the realm,
though I grant that none of them has ever been held in Europe.

===========================================================================
Arval Benicoeur                                       mittle@watson.ibm.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: bq434@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael A. Chance)
Subject: Re: Membership requirements
Reply-To: cpg3078@swuts.sbc.com (Michael A. Chance)
Organization: Somewhere in St. Louis, MO
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 92 20:58:51 GMT


Vashti comments:

> we have Elf-Steppers and Steppe-Sea-ers,

I just had this awful mental picture of hordes of fanatical Elf-Steppers
(tall, thin types in black uniforms and pointed ears) charging across the
field at Pennsic.....<shudder> <grin>

I know, I know, into the corner (gee, I wonder who's here this week?)....

Mikjal
(who's obviously not getting enough sleep lately)
-- 
UUCP : uunet!texbell!swuts!cpg3078
Internet : cpg3078@swuts.sbc.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: rday@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Robert E Day)
Subject: Re: "Killed" by Marshalls I asked about marshalling styles, and got a
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 13:48:58 GMT

In article <199204131308.AA7993@comm.Tandem.COM> MCKAY_MICHAEL@tandem.COM write
>(who did not give his SCA name).  I read through it and agreed with most of wh
at
>he said, until I came to this paragraph, which was written in response to my
>tail of my baron being "killed" by marshall's at Pennsic.
>
>Mike Squires (mikes@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu):
>> If this happened in any battle other than the Woods Battle, the marshall in
>> question was violating the War Rules which require the concurrence of two
>> marshalls to declare anyone dead.  In the Woods Battle there are usually no
>> more than one marshall in sight, so the rule has to be relaxed.  This rule w
>> requested by the East, and has been part of the rules for years.
>
>    This really bothered me, but it took me a while to figure out why.  If a
>fighter is not acknowledging blows in such a way that a marshall is obliged to
>"kill" them,  ( ... )

>    I'm still like more details on "Active Marshalling".  Is it widespread? Is
>it only used in wars (or only for Pennsic)?  Do they also dictate arm and leg
>shots, or is it only dead/not-dead?  I'd like to hear from other areas (reply
>off-line to me if you would like, and I will sumarzie the replies).

Here in the M.K., "Active Marshalling" on the tourney field starts with the
marshals talking to the fighters in the fight, _if_they_are_not_talking_to_
_each_other_ and the marshal sees, what is in his opinion, is a problem. If the
fighters have no problems with the fight, _nothing_ happens, the marshal lets
the fighters fight. _If_ the fighters do not agree, the marshal will discuss
the problem with the fighters first. Then if there is repeated occurances of
the problem, a warning would be given, and after that, if the problem
continues, the marshal may pass judgment. This could be a loss of an arm or a
leg, or death. (In a melee, the warning step is often bypassed.)

I cannot speak for everyone here(in the M.K.), but I view "Active Marshaling"
as a help to my honor. If a marshal tells me that I am having a problem, I
try to correct the proplem. In this way, I will(hopefully) rid myself of things
which could seem dishonorable in the eyes of the people watching the fight.

-
Otto
-- 
If the price that I must pay to obtain my *  Robert E. Day/Syr Otto von    *
freedom, is to acknowledge that the Gov-  *  Schwartzkatz, Shire Mugmort   *
ernmet was granted the power to infringe  *  Barony Middle Marches,        *
on them, then I am not free. Paul Anderson*  Middle Kingdom                *
From: mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Event publishing in the East
Date: 17 Apr 92 15:56:15 GMT
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM

Greetings from Arval! Sean MacKay wrote:

> You have made a nice chain of logic, but it all falls down at the because of
> the base statement.  "Events SHOULD be published in the Pikestaff". 

Where did you find that?  I just went back through all the postings on the
subject that I could find, and the word "should" appears in none of them.
It appears nowhere in the passages of law and policy which were quoted.  On
the contrary, EK seneschalate policy reads "must appear in Pikestaff".

===========================================================================
Arval Benicoeur                                       mittle@watson.ibm.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: midzor@tramp.Colorado.EDU (~Parador Moon~)
Subject: Travel distances (was Re: West vs East events, I think)
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 21:08:43 GMT


   There are lots of jokes I have heard about how "far" people in other 
Kingdoms travel, especially since I live in the Outlands.  Keep in mind
that the northern baronies (3) are at least 1 hour apart and that the 
southern baronies (2) are 5 hours apart.  Also, except for central Colorado,
Shires are few and VERY spread out.  So here's a breakdown of travel times
(at least mine, but I'm also a travel maniac during summer break):

For one way travel:

      Nearby                            -  less than 2 hours
      Not nearby                        -  2 to 5 hours
      It had better be a weekend event  -  5 to 8 hours
      A long drive                      -  8 to 15 hours  (Estrella War is 15)
      Pennsic (I'd rather fly, but       
        who can afford it?)             -  25 hours (straight)

   Most of the time I (and whoever I'm traveling with) drive straight through,
even Estrella.  I think Pennsic is the only event I'd consider stopping for the
night.  Being a maniac, and living in New Mexico in the summer, I think I
averaged 1000 miles (round trip) every weekend I went to an event--every 
weekend but two.  i guess with every thing so spread out, and a sparse
population,  a typical drive is 3 to 5 hours.

   I would hazard a guess that people's concept of "a long drive" is more 
related to population rather than Kingdom size/area.  ie. the more populated
the area, the less time people are willing to drive to go to events frequently,
regaurdless of how big (land area) their Kingdom is. opinions?


  Driving the Dream,  :-)
  Kaela Orion, DWS


   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
   |     Overheard at Pennsic:                                             |
   |                                                                       |
   |       "Make way! Make way!  Laurel on a golfcart coming through!      |
   |                                                                       |
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
   |    I would never admit to speaking for CU, so I won't claim to.       |
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
   |                       Visulize Whirled Peas                           |
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
Xref: sparky rec.org.sca:5376 rec.arts.sf.fandom:265
From: eg1n+@andrew.cmu.edu (Eli Brian Goldberg)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca,rec.arts.sf.fandom
Subject: netnews.alt.music.filk formed...
Date: 7 Apr 92 03:27:33 GMT
Organization: Freshman, Electrical and Computer Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

The Powers That Be (i.e. probably Kay Shapiro, Nicolai and Rick Ellis) have
created alt.music.filk.

alt.music.filk is dedicated to the discussion of "filk" music, which includes
virutally all musical "styles", but thematically is generally restricted
to science fiction fandom, space, computers, science fiction, fantasy,
and other topics of similar interest.

This is *NOT* an official message in any way; I just haven't seen a post
about it yet, so I'm sticking my nose in and making sure it gets done... :-)
From: PRIEST@vaxsar.vassar.EDU (CAROLYN PRIEST-DORMAN)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Books with SCA Components
Date: 15 Apr 92 11:48:00 GMT
Organization: The Internet

Unto the fishyfolk of the Rialto, greeting from Thora Sharptooth!

Esther Friesner's UNICORN U., sequel to HARPY HIGH, has a strong SCA bent to
it.  Alas, I lent out my copy after one fascinated reading several months ago,
so the plot details are rather sketchy in my mind.  Basically, a group of SCA
folk (whether under that name or another, I don't quite remember) help the hero
take over a library at Yale University (in order to maintain or restore the
cosmic balance, or something), and to fight demons (or revenants or something). 
Richard the Lion Heart and Saladin make appearances, and it's just too much
fun. ;>

Esther is from Dragonship Haven (New Haven, CT) herself; she puts in lots of
in-jokes about the SCA, the East Kingdom, Yale, and that fabulous library.

*****************************************************************************
Carolyn Priest-Dorman			Thora Sharptooth
Poughkeepsie, New York			Frosted Hills
priest@vassar.edu			East Kingdom
*****************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: MPFOSTER@mtus5.cts.mtu.EDU (Wulfgar Silberbar)
Subject: determinate marshalling
Organization: The Internet
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 15:19:29 GMT

Well, no. Not really. The subject line is not the subject, but it seems
sometimes the only way to get anybody's attention is to follow the thread,
no matter how many times the topic changes.

Branwen relates how strange the Midrealm way of fighting is, with the
marshals talking to the fighters after the bouts, and the fighters not
talking with each other... Where? Where in the Midrealm is this the norm?
It sounds truly horrible. Around these parts, that situation only occurs
in authorization bouts. After the real fighting, the marshals don't talk
to the fighters unless they see a problem (or unless they wish to talk
on a personal basis). I see a relatively high level of camaraderie in the
Midrealm, though not quite to the extent that Branwen reports from the West.

Wulfgar Silberbaer
From: lawbkwn@buacca.BITNET
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Aaargh, I did it again!
Date: 13 Apr 92 14:27:27 GMT
Organization: The Internet

Good gentles, I must humbly beg
your indulgence.
In my recent posting on English Common
Law, I again gave the date of the
writ of Novel disseisen as 1176.
I meant *1166*, which I should
remember, it being 100yrs after the
Conquest.  Curse my clumsy fingers!
I believe I gave the correct date somewhere
in the post.
In Service,
Yaakov
From: christer@sue.komunity.se (Christer Romson)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Persona
Date: 15 Apr 92 11:53:15 GMT
Article-I.D.: sue.m0lb8Gt-0000rxC
Organization: The Internet
X-Unparsable-Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 13: 35 MET DST

Fra Tadhg Liath
> The point I'm trying to make is that the "lesson she taught in the
> off-hand dismissal of a topic" is more likely to be "this teacher is a
> jerk" than something valuable

> If I'm just being overly sensitive, then I can say no more. Nobody seems
> willing to address the subject at hand

I'll address it: I think you're being overly sensitive. (I don't claim to
talk for the rest of the populace, of course). 

If i remember what you've written, you don't have a problem with her
dismissing the topic after barely mentioning it.  Rather, I understand, what
you disapprove of is that she used persona as the means to dismiss the
topic. I think this is overly sensitive. I can't see that this any worse
than most other way of dismissing a topic (except for the outright
insulting ones (e.g., "you're to stupid to understand that").

If you know that her only reason for dismissing the topic is that her
persona wouldn't know about it (and i don't think we know that) i could
understand your reaction better. I might not react the same way, and i
don't think most SCA-folk would. If she is willing to teach about the style
in general, and this was an ocasional thing (We are talking about a series
of "classes taught in persona, aren't we?) I still think you're a little to
sensitive. 

I would probably think she was a jerk if she refused to tell me about this
style at all, even thouh she did know about it.
 ----------------------------  
  |\  | |   /|   | |\  \ | /   
  | \ | |  * |  /| | >  \|/    SCA: Lindorm Eriksson, Nordmark, Drachenw., East
  |   | |\   | / | |/    |     Mundane: Christer Romson, Stockholm, Sweden.
  |   | | \  |  /| |\    |     Email: christer@Sue.KOMunity.Se
  |   | |    | / | | \   |   
  |   | |    |   | |  \  |   
 ----------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: carl@silver.lcs.mit.edu (Carl J.M. Alexander)
Subject: Re: Camp Ovens
Organization: MIT Laboratory for Computer Science
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 21:07:38 GMT

In article <4095@sumax.seattleu.edu> kohrn@sumax.seattleu.edu (David Kohrn) writes:
>Sorry I don't have the documentation offhand (If you're interested I could
>look it up), but I recall having been told in a Med. History/Anthropology
>class that there was a shift in m/f population around the 12th century
>caused in part by the crusades, but more because cooking in cast iron
>was increasing the blood iron in females and allowing more to survive
>child birth. (i.e. before 1100 there were more men than women, afterwards
>more women then men)
>
>				-Calote
>				corinne@reed.edu
>				kohrn@sumax.seattleu.edu
>

I would indeed be interested in seeing a reference on this.  If I 
recall correctly, cast iron (which is a misnomer:  it's actually 
an alloy of iron and a rather high percentage (around 5%, I believe) 
of carbon) was a late 17th C. invention.  It may be that there was 
a radical increase in the supply of iron (wrought iron) around the 
start of the 12th C., hence more use of iron for cookware, but I 
don't know.   
 
Alexander of Kiev 
 
Carl Alexander
carl@silver.lcs.mit.edu
 
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: ingo@norton.waterloo.edu (Electroholic)
Subject: Re: SCA in SF and a new topic
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 14:31:56 GMT

then again, there was the poor viking/norse personna in my barony who
was quoted in a local magazine article as having chosen the name 'norse'
	(although actually posessing a rather nice viking name...)

not to mention, of course (bertram, take note) the numerous mispronounciations
of 'society for creative anachronism' the barony has recieved when marching
in a local parade...the most notable being 'the society for creative
	_anarchy!_ 
one year, the announcer actually got the entire name right...to a cheer
from all involved in the parade!

cat
===============================================================================

		DO NOT USE REPLY OR ANSWERBACK: I WON'T GET YOUR MAIL

	        cat[9005904@sscvax.cis.mcmaster.ca]

===============================================================================

-- 
The University of Waterloo has no opinions, especially not mine.
From: jtn@nutter.cs.vt.edu (Terry Nutter)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Normandy and France
Date: 9 Apr 92 04:41:02 GMT
Followup-To: jtn@vtopus.cs.vt.edu
Organization: SCA

Unto the good gentles of the Rialto does Lord Hossein Ali Qomi send
greetings and prayers for the blessings of Allah.

Lord Fujimoto recently posted:

"Someone wrote/asked/somethinged about William the Conqueror and
his fealty relationships with France.  From my fuzzy memory of history,
it was around 966 A.D. that the French King gave the Viking Chieftain
Rollo control over what is now called Normandy, in return for
becoming Christian and ceasing his raids down the Seine.  The feudal
relationship was more futile... One incident: Norman duke goes to bow
before the Capetian King.  He kneels...grabs the King's foot, and tips the
King over backwards.  Not exactly the normal action of a loyal vassal."

The original source for this story is Dudo of St. Quentin [_De Moribus et
Actis Primorum Normanniae Ducum_, ed. J. Lair (Caen, 1865), p.169].
As Dudo tells the story, Rollo made homage to Charles the Simple for
northern Normandy in 911 C.E.  When he was informed by a French
courtier that it was customary that recipients of grants from the crown
kiss the king's foot, Rollo replied that he would never bend his knee to
anyone or kiss anyone's foot.  When the French made further
entreaties, Rollo relented and permitted one of his warriors to kiss the
king's foot on his behalf.  The warrior walked up to Charles, seated on
his throne, lifted the king's leg in the air, pitched the throne
backwards and, holding the king upside down by one leg, kissed his foot
to the uproarious laughter of the assembled Norsemen and the
mortification of the French court.

There are some problems with the source.  Dudo of St. Quentin was
commissioned by Duke Richard II in the second or third decade of the
eleventh century to compose a panegyric to the dukes of Normandy.
The work is in the tradition of Gregory of Tours' _Historia Francorum_
and Eusebius' _De Vita Constantini_.  While is there is clearly an extant
oral tradition being reported, much of it is mythical and legendary, and
sorting fact from legend in Dudo's work is nearly impossible.  What it
does, however, definitively present is the official attitude of the court of
William the Bastard's grandfather toward the French throne and the
feudal obligations of Normandy to France.  So Lord Fujimoto is entirely
correct in suggesting that Norman attitudes toward Normandy's feudal
relationship with France were not exactly conventional.

In Service to the Society,

Hossein Ali Qomi
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (a.j.s. nusbacher)
Subject: Re: Shield durability
Organization: University of Toronto 
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 15:55:51 GMT

The two important things that are pointed up by Balderik's test of plywood
agin mediaeval weapons are:

1.  SCA fighting may not account for shield attrition, but it also does not
account for having swords trapped in 1 3/4" splits in shields.

2.  Having a layer of stout leather over a wooden shield is a good thing.

Another point:  I own a rattan glaive made to weigh like a mediaeval glaive.  It
is only useful when standing behind Calontiri primaries--it is much too unwieldy
to use one-on-one.  At the same time, however, note that polearms used one-on-
one in mediaeval tournaments were not the big butcher glaives, or even serjeant
type halberds, but specialised tournament halberds and such.  A knight did not
have to worry about his polearm breaking in a combat at the barriers--it meant
a loss of points.  The heavy pike-breaking, head-splitting glaives were meant
for use by mobs of conscripted agricultural workers.

 _____________________________________________________________________________
|        Aryk Nusbacher                .. ..       Hart House, 1916
|                                      ||_||
|          Hart House                  | I |     || ||          || ||  ..    ..
|Informal Education in the University  |   |   . ||_||__________||_||  || ___||
|                                      | O |___|_|__________________|__| /  \ |
|    aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca         |   |       o oo  oo  oo   o      |__| |
|                                      |_A_|_______A_oo  oo  oo   A__^^^______|
|_____________________________________________________`------------____________
From: L6PJDU@irishmvs.cc.nd.EDU (Cathy Lindsay 239-6679, 219)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Please unsubscribe me
Date: 6 Apr 92 13:43:00 GMT
Organization: The Internet

I can now read this group on rec.org.sca, which is more
convenient.  Thanks, however, for several years' Digests--
without the Digest form I would not have been able to
participate in the past.
Katherine Lenge
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: F1.LWD@isumvs.iastate.edu (Lois Domek)
Subject: Thinkwell
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 01:19:56 GMT

Milord Justin,

I have seen this publication just once; how may we obtain a
subscription to Thinkwell?

Lhiannan y Llysieuydd
Axed Root, Calontir
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca