HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: thietaniemi@cc.helsinki.fi (Tapani Hietaniemi)
Subject: The Grand Duchy of Transdniestria?
Organization: University of Helsinki
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 15:29:30 GMT


Reading the Radio Free Europe reports is interesting indeed!
The detail below got my attention this time:

-----------------------------------------------------------------
> LEBED URGES TERRITORIAL CHANGES IN MOLDOVA. Lt.-Gen.  Aleksandr
> Lebed, commander of Russia's 14th Army in Moldova, warned in
> Pravda of 20 January that hostilities may resume "at any moment"

<deleted>

> In the same interview, Lebed called for the "Dniester
> republic's" accession to the Russian Federation under a status
> similar to that of Finland within Tsarist Russia.     ^^^^^^^^
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
<deleted>
> Vladimir Socor, RFE/RL, Inc.
------------------------------------------------------------------

I wonder whether gospodin Lebed knows what he is demanding.

According to his opinion, Transdniestria should

- be a Grand Duchy in a personal union with the Russian emperor,
  which would be the Grand Duke of Transdniestria (Boris II?).
- have the state religion of it's own.
- have the official languages of it's own.
- have it's own citizenship that would be distinct from the Russian one.
- have it's own autonomous legislation based on previous (in the case
  of Finland Swedish) legislation.

Bozhe tsarya hrani!
Tapani Hietaniemi, Universitas Helsingiensis
                   urbs fennorum

Xref: sparky talk.politics.soviet:10700 soc.culture.soviet:12362
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center
Date: Sunday, 24 Jan 1993 09:17:17 EST
From: Dimitri Vulis <DLVGC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Who did the zhlobs vote for? (Was: Re: My .2*10^(-2) $ (Was: Robert

In article <kosinov.727559248@ceg.uiuc.edu>, kosinov@ceg.uiuc.edu (Greg
Kosinovsky) says:
>1) George Bush is not, by any stretch of the imagination, a CONSERVATIVE
>Republican. Ideologically, the difference between him and Clinton is marginal
>--
>both are political opportunists, rather than believers in a certain philosophy
>of government.
It's hard to defend Bush, but to say that he was as much of a creep as Clintor
is unwarranted.  Bush broke a single campaign promise ("No new taxes").
Clintor broke several (about the Haitians, about the deficit, about tax cut
for the middle class, about a welfare reform) before even his inauguration.
Bush was a highly decorated
WWII veteran.  Clintor is a draft dodger.  Between the two political
opportunists, I'd pick Bush.
>2) Overwealming majority of Soviet immigrants are not welfare hogs (especially
>those who are already citizens).
You're wrong here, and I suspect you don't know what your talking about :)
[Where the heck is 'uiuc'? :) Not anywhere near BB, I bet ]
The overwhelming majority (90+%) of S.e.s that came here after 1986 are on
welfare,according to NYANA, and this 'wave' is now beginning to get its citi
zenship papers. Most couldn't vote, but are overwhelmingly pro-Clintor,
hoping that he'll raise their welfare payments.
An insignificant number came between '81 and '86.
I don't know the percentage of S.e's who came before '81 and are still on
welfare:  I've seen _a lot_ of them, many working for cash. Those on
welfare voted for Xlintor, same as the class of '86.  Those who work for
a living and pay taxes (and there are a lot of those) also gave many
votes to C. --- higher percentage, it seemed to me, than working Americans
(but I don't have precise #'s, alas)

> Given a choice between two essentially similar canditates, ex-Sovoks (who are
>mostly Jewish) went for the one who didn't seem hostile towards Israel.
I do hope you mean Bush, or is 'seem' the keyword here?  Clintor is
surrounded by self-hating Jews who would like Israel to go off the map.
The same Jews probably voted for Hitler in '33 and will vote for the
pogromshchik Dinkins in NYC mayoral election.  I'm seriously concerned
about Israel's survival in the next 4 years.
>P.S. I was a major Conservative/Republican organizer on my campus, and I am
>still
>envolved in these activities (though grad school and family don't exactly leave
>much time for it), but I didn't vote in this election. And the only candidate I
>even looked at seriously since the very beginning of the primaries was Clinton
>(until I saw that he was as pathetic a choise as anyone else).
Well, _I_ voted for Bush, and I'm sure that assholes like Mizha Z. voted for
Clintor, even though he's not on welfare (yet). :)

Dimitri
Disclaimer: CUNY is.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
From: pv02@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (PETER VOROBIEFF)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Recalling in sorrow the boring memory of Mudlu the Undead
Date: 23 Jan 93 01:37:50 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

In article <106039@netnews.upenn.edu>, sergei@upenn5.hep.upenn.edu (Sergei Borodin) writes:
>In article <1993Jan21.171046.31651@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> pv02@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (PETER VOROBIEFF) writes:
>>In article <105872@netnews.upenn.edu>, sergei@upenn5.hep.upenn.edu (Sergei Borodin) writes:
>>
>>Everybody was warned THRICE not to step into the shit!
>
> Well, as you correctly guessed, I was afraid of 
> followups.

No foul mudlu ratf**k followup followed. #*)

>  I'm quite confident that the program needs your reply
>  to be initiated.

Unfortunately, it does not. When there are no mudlu-baits, it
just generates new messages, sometimes in awful quantity.

>>With best regards from the Lurking Beasts of the Forests of Gnoy who
>>have just finished feasting on the bloated corpse of a certain National
>>Guard Soldier...

>  I appreciate that. The Little Soldier kinda pisses me
>  off. Shall we unscrew his balls?

Let the lesser carrion-beasts dispose of the bodily remains of the
pest. BTW, probably the most cruel thing would be just to let him be
"as is".

-- 
---
Thus spake Kalmoth the Dreaded, Bane of the Forests of Gnoy.
From: oleg@NETCOM.COM (Oleg Kiselev)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: s NAU^NOJ TO^KI ZRENIQ, OTKUDA BER$TSQ TAKOE GOWNO,
              KAK wLADISLAW?
Date: 28 Jan 93 01:01:00 GMT
Reply-To: "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" <TPS-L@INDYCMS.BITNET>

In article <NIKOLAY.93Jan26015701@husc10.harvard.edu> nikolay@husc10.harvard.edu
 (Philip Nikolayev) writes:
>>>I am ready to bet $100 that it is spelled GOVNO, not GAVNO. Any takers ?
>> Isn't it the same root as in GOVYADINA?
>Yes.

Only if you are a vegetarian.
--
Oleg Kiselev at home                    ...use the header to find the path
From: zeleny@HUSC10.HARVARD.EDU (Mikhail Zeleny)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Robert Conquest's _The Great Terror_
Date: 28 Jan 93 16:58:55 GMT
Reply-To: "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" <TPS-L@INDYCMS.BITNET>

In article <JMC.93Jan27163928@SAIL.Stanford.EDU> jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU writes:

>I take an action to be vindicated by something if the something makes
>it completely ok.  "aggravated" and "extenuated" are the opposites.
>When a crime is committed and extenuating circumstances are found
>the sentence is less than it would otherwise be, but the person
>need not be unpunished.  When there are aggravating circumstances,
>the punishment is greater than standard.

I accept your terminology.  The question remains: do you think that
the participants' culpability for the wrongful execution of Albert
Parsons is extenuated any less than the participants' culpability for
the wrongful execution of the Romanov Crown Princess, given that the
justifying grounds for each killing are similar in condemning the
victim as harmful and dangerous to the well-being of the State?

>--
>John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305
>*
>He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.
>

cordially,
mikhail zeleny@husc.harvard.edu
"Le cul des femmes est monotone comme l'esprit des hommes."
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.soviet
From: thietaniemi@cc.helsinki.fi (Tapani Hietaniemi)
Subject: CSCE minority commissioner on BALTICS
Organization: University of Helsinki
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 15:05:40 GMT


I continue documenting the Conference on Security and Co-operation in
Europe evaluation process:

--------------------------------------------------------------------
> CSCE COMMISSION CONCLUDES BALTIC VISIT. On 23 January a CSCE
> delegation headed by High Commissioner on Minorities Max van der
> Stoel ended its series of four-day visits to each of the Baltic
> States and departed for Moscow, Baltfax reports.  Meetings were
> held with the presidents of Estonia, Lennart Meri, Latvia,
> Anatolijs Gorbunovs, and Lithuania, Algirdas Brazauskas, their
> foreign ministers, and other parliamentarians and representatives
> of the national minorities. At a press conference in Vilnius Van
> der Stoel said that the national minorities in Lithuania are in a
> better position than in the other two republics because of the
> citizenship law in that country. Saulius Girnius, RFE/RL, Inc.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
forwarded without comment by
the observer
Tapani Hietaniemi, Universitas Helsingiensis
                   urbs fennorum
From: thietaniemi@cc.helsinki.fi (Tapani Hietaniemi)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: ESTONIAN citizens in PETSERI/PETSHORA (Was: The Grand Duchy...
Date: 27 Jan 93 11:14:54 GMT
Followup-To: talk.politics.soviet
Organization: University of Helsinki

In article <106747@netnews.upenn.edu>, sergei@upenn5.hep.upenn.edu 
(Sergei Borodin) writes:
> In article <1993Jan27.014908.14110@dxcern.cern.ch> gen@vsnhd7.cern.ch 
(Eugene Chudakov) writes:
> 
>>   One my friend who had visited Pechory few weeks ago wrote me in 
>>an e-mail that the local people got upset about Estonian claims and
>>have no will to go into Estonia. 
> 
>   No wonder. Firstly, they will be denied in honorable
>   Estonian citizenship as being non-ethnic Estonians,
>   then they will be called "occupiers" and finally
>   will be asked to leave. 


Here you only reveal that you have not or you will not grasp
anything about the Estonian citizenship issue.

Some of the people (if not the majority) of the Petsherians are 
Estonian citizens, because one of their (grand)parents has been
an Estonian citizen. According to the existing citizenship
legislation there should be masses of Russian speaking Estonian
citizens in Petserimaa/Petshora. But this is no reason to change
borders, there will be thousands of Russian citizens in Tallinn,
Eastern Virumaa and Narva in the near future. There will be mixed
citizenries in Estonia and Russia - welcome to Europe!

The Russian and Estonian speaking Petsherians in Petserimaa/Petshora 
that are Estonian citizens will remain Estonian citizens.
According to the Constitution:
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Art.8. No person that has acquired the Estonian citizenship by birth
       may be deprived of it.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Somebody can "ask" them to leave but no one can force them to it.
According to the Constitution:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Art.36. No Estonian citizen may be deported from Estonia or
        prevented from settling in Estonia.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Tens of thousands Estonians were deported during the forties and
fifties. They have had enough of it. It's totally other people that
have deported the Estonians and currently keep up speaking about
deportations. It's their tradition.


with best regards
the observer
Tapani Hietaniemi, Universitas Helsingiensis
                   urbs fennorum
From: dharkins@papillon.ucsd.edu (Dan Harkins)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Sergei Borodin, genius
Date: 21 Jan 1993 18:26:51 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: papillon.ucsd.edu

I posted some time back and used the word "mutlu" in my post. I was summarily
attacked by Sergei Borodin (sergei@upenn5.hep.upenn.edu) for causing a program
to flood the internet with responses. Peter Vorobieff (pv02@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu)
in article <1993Jan20.194717.81036@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> did the same and also
was attacked by Sergei Borodin, the self-styled genius.

Yet for some reason, Mr. Besdelnik--oops-- Borodin can post articles like
<105529@netnews.upenn.edu> and <105899@netnews.upenn.edu> which too include
words like "Argic" and too generate multi-line responses. Just what gives here?

I can take critisism, but not from hypocrites. 

Idii v zhopoo, Sergei.

Dan Harkins
dharkins@ucsd.edu
From: jmc@SAIL.STANFORD.EDU (John McCarthy)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Robert Conquest's _The Great Terror_
Date: 28 Jan 93 00:43:37 GMT
Reply-To: "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" <TPS-L@INDYCMS.BITNET>

I take an action to be vindicated by something if the something makes
it completely ok.  "aggravated" and "extenuated" are the opposites.
When a crime is committed and extenuating circumstances are found
the sentence is less than it would otherwise be, but the person
need not be unpunished.  When there are aggravating circumstances,
the punishment is greater than standard.
--
John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305
*
He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.
From: pmsc13sg@UMASSD.EDU (Stephen Grossman)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Marxism
Date: 26 Jan 93 15:29:09 GMT
Reply-To: pmsc13sg@UMASSD.EDU
Organization: UMASS DARTMOUTH, NO. DARTMOUTH, MA.

In article <1993Jan25.233515.16257@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu>, mkagalen@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu (michael kagalenko) writes:
>In article <C1FL1y.FLp@umassd.edu> pmsc13sg@UMASSD.EDU writes:
>>
>>            (... a lot of crap, basically) 
>>
>Yet another Argic ;
>"That has nothing to do with the fact that millions of innocent
>Americans were slaughtered by Marxists..."
>
>
>     I'm kinda curious.
>     What property of *.soviet newsgroups attracts people with various 
>emotional disorders ?  *sigh*
>   
SG	What are you talking about??? 
	Don't confuse emotion with reason.
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
	"In that world, you'll be able to rise in the morning with the spirit
you had known in your childhood: that spirit of eagerness, adventure and cer-
tainty which comes from dealing with a rational universe."
                                                              AYN RAND
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stephen Grossman <PMSC13SG@UMASSD.EDU>
================================================================================
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.soviet
From: goykhman@apollo.hp.com (Red Herring)
Subject: Re: CSCE minority commissioner on LATVIA
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 16:17:06 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Chelmsford, MA

In article <1993Jan23.145409.1@cc.helsinki.fi> thietaniemi@cc.helsinki.fi (Tapani Hietaniemi) writes:
>Instead of arguing about the minority situation on the Baltic
>states with unsufficient information, it might be more fruitful
>to read some evaluations on the situation that are made by some
>third party or respected international organisations.
>
>Here a briefing of the standpoint of the minority rights commissioner 
>of the Conference of Security and Co-operation in Europe:
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------
>CSCE COMMISSIONER ON MINORITY RIGHTS IN LATVIA. CSCE High
>Commissioner on Minorities Max van der Stoel told Latvian Supreme
>Council Chairman Anatolijs Gorbunovs and Foreign Minister Georgs
>Andrejevs that he had not observed any abuses of ethnic minority
>rights of non-Latvians who are citizens of the republic,

    Of course, because there no such a thing as a non-Latvian 
    citizen of Latvia.  Even half-Latvians can't become 
    a citizen.

    A couple of weeks ago I received a letter from somebody whose late 
    mother was an ethnic Latvian and a citizen of Latvia (born there
    before 1940, lived there all her life, and buried in Riga). 
    That person is being denied citizenship because of non-Latvian
    father.

    However, it would be unfair to characterize Lhe Latvian
    citizenship practices as being Nazi-like: the Nazis generally
    recognized half-Germans as "volksdeutche" (sp?), did they not?



-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Follow the money" Deep Throat
Disclaimer: Other opinions are mine only
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ajc@papillon.ucsd.edu (The Smoking Gun)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: "Soviet" logic
Date: 22 Jan 1993 17:27:01 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: papillon.ucsd.edu

In article <105872@netnews.upenn.edu> sergei@upenn5.hep.upenn.edu (Sergei
Borodin) writes about people who write "mutlu" or "argic" in posts:

> It makes me wonder why, you people, are doing this?
> Who cares what the program will pick up from the
> database?

In <195529@netnews.upenn.edu> and <105899@netnews.upenn.edu> he baits Mutlu
(I'm still not convinced he's a computer) and get reams in response.
Which makes me wonder? Is Sergei Borodin a schizophrenic or computer program
himself or just a self-righteous hypocrite?

In article <104942@netnews.upenn.edu> he bleats:

> Smart people actually don't care what he writes.
> Only idiots help the computer to spread his junk
> over the net.

Well, I guess that makes you an idiot then, doesn't it?

In article <106017@netnews.upenn.edu> he writes:

>    [ much whining about email deleted ]
>          I promise you to forward ALL "the program's"
> posts and your foolish replies as well to your account.

Don't play with fire, jack, or you're likely to get burned.
But, go ahead if you want:
			MUTLU...ARGIC...TURKS KILLED MILLIONS OF ARMENIANS!
			MUTLU...ARGIC
			MUTLU...ARGIC

And those with a limited grasp of the English language would do well not 
to trivially correct other's Russian ("maslom" instead of "maslim", on 
a latin keyboard).

Dan Harkins
dharkins@ucsd.edu
From: verbit@COOLIDGE.HARVARD.EDU ("Mikhail S. Verbitsky")
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: CSCE minority commissioner on LATVIA
Date: 28 Jan 93 06:06:53 GMT
Reply-To: "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" <TPS-L@INDYCMS.BITNET>

I want to thank Boris very much for writing clearly
(more clearly than I could) my personal objections to
xSoviet nationalistic goverments.

In article <93026.125612BAV2@psuvm.psu.edu>
Boris A. Veytsman <BAV2@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:

>For me the alternative to nationalism is individualism. I readily
>recognize anybody's rights as a person, as an Estonian, Finn, etc.
>But - maybe it's my fault - I don't understand rights of nations
>per se. Somebody wise (don't remember his name just now) said that
>something immoral for an individual is also immoral for millions
>of them - and is immoral for a nation. I cannot understand nation's
>right which are not reducible to rights of individuals. The opposite
>view I call nationalism.

Tapani wrote previously:
>>That's your splendid idea and you will be left alone with it. You are
>>trying to say that the Baltics are pressing the non-citizens to emigrate.
>>Well, you should try to substantiate your claim with some evidence. Which
>>might be hard.

>Ok. A lot of Russian-speaking people speak about pressing. Are they all
>liars? Have I not read Riga newspapers?

To read scs is enough to gain evidence, if one is not insisting
on seeing only what he wants. The recent article written
by some patriot reads "There is PLENTY of space in Russia
for Baltic Russians" or some such. Clearly, Russian-speakers
in Baltics *are* pressed to leave - at least by halfwits
like the author of these words. It seems to me
that unfortunately said halfwits are in majority among
citizens of Estonia and Latvia.

Misha.
From: verbit@COOLIDGE.HARVARD.EDU ("Mikhail S. Verbitsky")
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: The Grand Duchy of Transdniestria?
Date: 28 Jan 93 07:26:55 GMT
Reply-To: "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" <TPS-L@INDYCMS.BITNET>

In article <1993Jan27.014908.14110@dxcern.cern.ch> gen@vsnhd7.cern.ch
(Eugene Chudakov) writes:


>    That reminds me a recent case with Estonia, since Mr.Hietaniemi
>represents Estonian interests in this newsgroup.
>
>   Few monthes ago Estonia made a territorial claim to Russia
>for historically Estonian lands that included a place called
>Pechory. I heard about this Pechory recently by chance.
>I could hardly consider this place to be historically Estonian,
>even if I knew what it means.

        The area is historically Estonian by no means.
        Its population was always mixed and never predominantly
        Estonian. It was Estonian for 20 years and Russian
        for some 500 years. Finally, Estonia got it from
        defeatist Bolshevic goverment in 1920 when Bolshevics
        were ready to give any land to anybody to end
        the war. As well as Brests peace treaty the
        giving away of Pechory has no legal force.

>The land around was always an arena
>of clashes of different powers like Poland, Prussia, Russia...
>and was nearly all the time under some domination.

        Under Russian domination from 17 century and lots of
        times before.

>   The claim was done, however, on a legitimate ground since this place
>was given by the soviet government to Estonia in 1920, perhaps in a trade
>for some political favours (there were still some white troops hanging
>around in Estonia).

        Sorry, Eugene, but your article written in a very
        annoying style. How do you can judge if the claim
        is legitimate if you, as you wrote, know nothing
        from the history of region? Treaties made by
        non-legit (Bolshevic) goverment are non-legit.
        Period.

>>Bozhe tsarya hrani!

>God save the Queen!

Satan, my sweet Satan, please kill them both!

Misha.
Xref: sparky talk.politics.soviet:10767 soc.culture.soviet:12456
From: MEDS002@UABDPO.BITNET ("A.J. Wright")
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: HELP!!!!!
Date: 28 Jan 93 21:43:09 GMT
Reply-To: "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" <TPS-L@INDYCMS.BITNET>

Would the listowner please contact me; I am unable to unsubscribe from the
list using all methods known to me. Sorry to burden the entire list with
my problem.

A.J. Wright
meds002@uabdpo
meds002@uabdpo.dpo.uab.edu
From: zuma!sera@NET.BIO.NET (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: "ASALA/SDPA/ARF" Nazis/criminals/terrorists massacred "Erez".
Date: 28 Jan 93 02:13:07 GMT
Reply-To: "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" <TPS-L@INDYCMS.BITNET>
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish

In article <1475100112@igc.org> pnmideast@igc.org writes:

>/* Written  4:04 pm  Jan 13, 1992 by newsdesk in cdp:ips.englibrary */
>Copyright Inter Press Service 1991, all rights reserved.  Permission to re-
>print within 7 days of original date only with permission from 'newsdesk'.


        Historical and Traditional Armenian Barbarism
        =============================================

 "...that more people have to die..."

                          SDPA <91@urartu.UUCP>


        October 24, 1975 - Paris
        Ismail Erez and his driver, Talip Yener are murdered.
        The ASALA and the SDPA dispute responsibility.

        February 16, 1976 - Beirut
        Oktar Cirit is assassinated in a restaurant on Hamra Street.
        The ASALA claims responsibility.


Serdar Argic

                           'We closed the roads and mountain passes that
                            might serve as ways of escape for the Turks
                            and then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)
                           'In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists
                            a single Turkish soul.'    (Sahak Melkonian)
Xref: sparky talk.politics.soviet:10825 soc.culture.soviet:12507