HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
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Date:         Mon, 6 Apr 1992 11:34:00 EDT
From:         Joy! Joy! Joy! <ESTHER@SUD1.ED.RAY.COM>
Subject:      forwarded per Nick's request -- eap (don't tell the Dr I typed!)

Nick asked me to post this question to the list -- Regards! Esther @ Raytheon
esther@mar.ed.ray.com or esther@rayssd.ssd.ray.com          Marlborough, MA
---------------------------------------------------
Recently, there was some discussion of a quote about
marriages between deaf and hearing. Does anyone in this
list have some data on the subject? For example what is
the percentage of deaf people marrying hearing? Is the
divorce rate in these marriages higher than in the ones
between deaf and deaf?
It would also be helpful if you can refer me to a book
with subject the problems in those marriages. And any
personal experiences through the list would be helpful
too.
Of course, I understand that a marriage is always an
affair between two *specific* people, and thus each
marriage has it's own *specific* problems, indepently
of whether it involves deaf people or not. Yet, we
should admit that there are also some special problems
related to the deafness. On a short term basis they
can certainly be overcome (some people are more capable
in that than others) but for a long term, I don't know.
Personaly I know of marriages that broke up with the
onset of deafness and marriages between deaf and hearing
that have lasted for a long time. But from the one or two
cases that I happen to be aware of, I cannot come to any
conclussion and I would appreciate your comments.

Thanks for your time,

Nick Hatzigeorgiu, UCLA
(26 years old, deaf since 12)
-------------------------------------------------------
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Date:         Wed, 15 Apr 1992 11:25:00 EDT
From:         "Irene Scott, User Support Specialist" <ISCOTT@ITHACAOA.BITNET>
Subject:      One more opinion...

Hi folks,

I'm hearing impaired and due to an inherited condition have a
number of hearing impaired (cousins) and Deaf (sister, brother,
and others)relatives as well as hearing relatives in my family.
So I am in the thick of all three cultures.  I've been reading
with interest the exchanges in the last few days!

I say I'm exposed to "three" cultures because certainly hearing
folks have
their own ways but also is there a cultural difference between
the hearing
impaired and Deaf folks.  Some differences are very noticable,
some slight.
In my own family, for example, I see a very noticable difference
in the way
the Deaf relatives write compared to the way the hearing and
hearing
impaired ones do.  I think a lot has to do with the fact that
individuals
who don't hear the language will write differently than folks
who do hear
the language at least to some degree.  Sometimes who the writer
is needs
to be taken into consideration by the reader; my sister, for
example, uses a
lot of exclimations!! and CAPITAL LETTERS as well as doing some
creative
things with verbs in her writing - but isn't necessarily trying
to be nasty
or opinioniated; she's trying to get her point across and does
it well.
Since using ASL it seems that she writes as though she is
signing
and using ways to convey the feelings that would otherwise be
conveyed
by her expressions or the sign itself.

Those three different cultures come together on this conference.
If insteadwe were all say, Australian, Japaneese and French we
would have communication problems even if we all wrote in
English because of the differences in our experiences,
backgrounds and education. One person's statement of frustration
might be taken by another as a statement of anger.  I'm not
trying to defend someone who writes nasty messages to
people on purpose but I am suggesting that patience and
understanding is
the best way to not only bridge the gap but to also begin to see
and
even enjoy each other's differences.



Oh well, just wanted to put in my two cents!

Irene Scott
ISCOTT@OTHACAOA
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Date:         Tue, 14 Apr 1992 21:00:53 EDT
From:         Annie Senghas <annie@PSYCHE.MIT.EDU>
Subject:      bio sketch

Hi.  I just joined the list this week, and would like to introduce
myself:

NAME: Annie Senghas
AGE: 27
OCCUPATION: Graduate Student at MIT (Massachusetts Institute of
Technology), in psycholinguistics
HEARING STATUS: Hearing
COMMUNICATION STRATEGIES: With hearing people, spoken English, some
broken Spanish.  With deaf people (depending on their strategies) I
can use some sign- I have five years of sporadic classes in ASL and
one year working on Idioma de Signos Nicaraguense (Nicaraguan Sign
Language).
WHY I SUBSCRIBE TO DEAF-L: I do research in language acquisition, and
am interested in what the acquisition of signed languages, and the
creolization of new languages, can tell us about how the mind works.
In the course of some of this work I have begun to become familiar
with some people in the Deaf community.  I think it is crucial to be
familiar with (and welcome) in a community if you want to understand
the language(s) of its people.  I have found my contact with deaf
communities so far to be enjoyable and I would like to broaden those
ties.  I am a member of HANDS, the MIT Deaf Studies/Deaf Interests
group, but my membership has lapsed this year because of scheduling
conflicts, so I feel particularly distant.  Also I am a computer list
junkie.
QUESTIONS I WOULD LIKE TO ADDRESS: One personal issue that interests
me is the politics and perspective gained by not being in the
mainstream.  This issue seems to me to be already on the table, so I
may join in on the discussion.

-Annie
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Date:         Thu, 16 Apr 1992 11:22:55 CDT
From:         BARRY BERGEN <BERGEN@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Signature
              16 Apr 1992 07:46:09 -0500 from <djk59109@UXA.CSO. UIUC.EDU>

Sorry,

You have ended my blissful ignorance.  In future, I remain

                         Barry Bergen (bergen@ricevm1.rice.edu)
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Mon, 6 Apr 1992 18:00:38 EDT
From:         Mireille <M104540@UQAM.BITNET>
Subject:      A.G. Bell on TV

Someone have noted the canadian program on A.G.Bell life in america ? I have
watched the first part yesterday, and I will watch the next part tonight since
I am a canadian.
I really enjoyed the portrayal of that man,he did know sign language !And I was
a bit surprised since I find the man portryed in a much sympathetic way. I have
read "When the mind hear" from Lane, and he only show the really bad sides of
Bell. But the man was first really found of his deaf mother, and he really
wanted to help the deaf children. He was a great mind of his times, and I know
he disliked the concept of Deaf culture but, I must say I find he have some
good sides too!
Personnaly, I met Lane at the "Deaf Way" in Washington, and I really didn't
understand why Deaf people think of him as almost a "god" ! I don't even know
if he know ASL since all his speechs was interpreted by ASL interpreters.
I did find him a bit arrogant, and didn't think of him as a warm man.
He surely approach the concept of deafness with an original way, and I must say
I can second most of his reasonings, but he is a bit to hard on some people
that donpt think like him, and that, I don't really like.
I am all for the Deaf culture and I am always ready to defend it, but, don't we
also have to respect people who did try to improve the life of the Deaf, and I
know a lot of people think that Bell only made mistakes, but I am not sure any-
more that he was only evil for the Deaf.But, I didn't see the second part, I
can always change my mind again...
Fot the new one on the list that don't know me, I became deaf, and know ASL and
LSQ ( our sign language here in the province of Quebec), I speak, lipread and
always try to learn all that can help me communicate with everybody. But yes, I
find that the deaf kids have the right to learn a sign language that can help
them grasp the meaning of language..
Take care everyone,
Mireille Caissy, Montreal, Quebec ( Can), M104540@UQAM.Bitnet.Ca
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Date:         Mon, 6 Apr 1992 11:35:00 -0700
From:         I See U! <CONLEYJ@CUBLDR.COLORADO.EDU>
Subject:      Re: voice versus sign

yes, I agree that people r confusing Deaf with deaf.  Some of us have started
and/or accepted (depending on ur view as to who REALLY came up with the
difference between them) that culturally deaf will be with a big 'D' while the
others will be using the smaller 'd'.

Sooooo, that means most ASL Deaf will be the cultural Deaf; anyone else
outside of this will be desinanated as deaf.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Tue, 14 Apr 1992 08:57:48 -0500
From:         "David J. Krueger" <djk59109@UXA.CSO.UIUC.EDU>
Subject:      Re: INTRO

>Stephen Hawking, the physicist, is proud not because of
>his disability but because of his achievements.

Nick,

That is exactly what I was trying to convey.  People, hearing people,
should not focus on the disablity of any person to belittle that person's
accomplishments.  I run into that kind of thinking often and it is usually
a shock to these people that I have accomplished a lot FOR A DEAF PERSON.
If I was hearing, I would still accomplish a lot (would I?? That is for
another lifetime, not this one) but it wouldn't be viewed as it is viewed
just because of my deafness.  I'm just trying to promote Deaf awareness
and start the thinking that a Deaf or even any disabled (in hearing minds)
people can do anything except what is limited by their disablity.  In our
case, it would be that we wouldn't seek out a job to be a telephone operator
but if to be a special telephone operator, only for TTD, then YES, a Deaf
person would seek that job.  I may be confusing, BUT, do *YOU* get my point?

				Yad doog a evah,

				David (djk59109@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Thu, 16 Apr 1992 07:46:09 -0500
From:         "David J. Krueger" <djk59109@UXA.CSO.UIUC.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Signature

Yes, I realize it is such a trivial thing, but it helps other Deaf-L
subscribers to recognize who you are.  Personally, I think the headers
(comes with the mail, automatically) are enough, but there are other
ways of getting Deaf-L postings, other than getting them through the email
system.  So, in that case, a signature would be appreciated when the
name of the poster is known.  That's what I think. I may be wrong, am I?

				Using the 10 percent of my grey matter,

				David (djk59109@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu)
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Date:         Thu, 9 Apr 1992 15:58:29 EDT
From:         Bill McGarry <wtm@SHELDEV.SHEL.ISC-BR.COM>
Subject:      Re: Please send info re devices to ease/prevent wrist RSI
X-To:         DEAF-L%SIUCVMB.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu
              Paris" at Apr 9, 92 8:52 am

Hi Esther,

If you have ftp access, ftp to "handicap.shel.isc-br.com" and go
to the "ibm" directory.  There is a file in there called "mobility.zip"
which is from the IBM disability resource center.  I know that
the Data Glove is in there.  You  might also want to contact IBM
(address at the end).

While you're on that ftp site, check out the "mobile" directory.
There are some programs in there that might help you such
as "Anarkey" and the Mind Reader word predictor.


                                Bill McGarry
                                (203) 337-1518

UUCP:       {oliveb, philabs, decvax, yale}!bunker!wtm
INTERNET:   wtm@bunker.shel.isc-br.com
BITNET:     l-hcap@ndsuvm1.bitnet
Fidonet:    The Handicap News BBS (141/420)   1-203-337-1607
            (300/1200/2400 baud, 24 hours)
Compuserve: 73170,1064


        IBM National Support Center for Persons with Disabilities
        P. O. Box 2150
        Atlanta, GA 30055
        (800) 426-2133
        (404) 238-4806

        (800) 284-9482 (TDD)
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Tue, 14 Apr 1992 18:31:28 CDT
Comments:     Warning -- original Sender: tag was
From:         "Keith Watt: 205-544-4669TTY - AL RELAY: 800-548-2547V"
              <kwatt%hrtr1.span%Fedex.Msfc.Nasa.Gov@SDSC.BITNET>
Subject:      "Have a nice day!"

Thebest repsonse (from a cynic's point of view) that I've ever encountered
to "Have a nice day!":



"Thanks, but I have other plans."



Keith
(cwatt@nasamail.nasa.gov)
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Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date:         Tue, 7 Apr 1992 09:06:39 CDT
Comments:     Warning -- original Sender: tag was NETNEWS@UICVM.UIC.EDU
From:         Kimberly Laird <U30993@UICVM.UIC.EDU>
Subject:      Re: TDD

Someone else mentioned that TDD meant Telecommunication  Device
for the Deaf. I've heard that TDD is actually Text Display
Device, since people who've lost their voice (cancer, accident,
whatever) also use this.  Anyone else have better information?
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Tue, 14 Apr 1992 14:08:57 -0500
From:         "David J. Krueger" <djk59109@UXA.CSO.UIUC.EDU>
Subject:      Re: percentage of deaf at university

Kim,

Are you seriously telling me that the Rehab Services tried to tell
you that they would not pay for a notetaker or interpreter??? They even
tried that line on me, but I didn't let them get away with it!  If you
remember 504, it states that an educational institute, such as UIC, that
receives FEDERAL FUNDING for ANYTHING, it is required to follow the
condtions and rules stated in 504. In 504, Deaf people are recognized as
handicapped and 504 forces these reluctant administrators to give you
an education that is EQUAL to the education given to othe hearing students.
Unless UIC is TOTALLY privately funded, this is a situation where
discrimination DOES apply and I strongly encourage you to show these
administrators a copy of 504 and point out that they have denied you
equal access. If you need help, contact the National Center of the Law
and Deaf (is that right? I know it is NCLD).  It is located on Gallaudet
campus and they would be more than happy to provide you with materials
that you would need to back-up your statements.  If I am wrong, please
let me know...

				Trying to make equality a reality...

				David (djk59109@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu)
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Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date:         Tue, 14 Apr 1992 11:10:59 CDT
Comments:     Warning -- original Sender: tag was NETNEWS@UICVM.UIC.EDU
From:         Kimberly Laird <U30993@UICVM.UIC.EDU>
Subject:      Re: percentage of deaf at university

I have to agree with David James on the possibility that
use of Rehab/Disabled Students Services is not a good
way to determine how many deaf are on campus.  Take my
case.....I was the only deaf person in elementary, high school,
and in college (but it was a small liberal arts college), when
I went to grad school, disabled students services told me about
at least one other deaf student....

I went to the University of Michigan, I finally decided to give
Disabled Students Services a try because of newspaper articles about
the service. Previously, I'd been actively discouraged from
using their services. direct quote, "oh, you're deaf.....

well, um, we really only provide services for people in wheelchairs."
Guess that means I'm not "really disabled/handicapped".  (Big smile here...)

If I'd wanted a notetaker, it would've come out of my own
pocket.  And the professors wouldn't allow it....
So, what good would they do me?  Perhaps ADA will change this a little...

%-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-%=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-%
Kimberly J. Laird
 *University of Illinois-Chicago
   *BITNET:U30993@UICVM//INTERNET:U30993@UICVM.CC.UIC.EDU
%-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-%=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
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Date:         Fri, 10 Apr 1992 16:16:04 -0500
From:         "David J. Krueger" <djk59109@UXA.CSO.UIUC.EDU>
Subject:      Re: seeing your own messages

Christine,

If you want to see your messages, just type your login (cromano) at the
"cc: " prompt.  "cc" stands for "carbon copy" so, all you have to do is to
type that and the letter you sent through the network would also be sent to
you.  Glad to help you...  :)

					Later Daze,

					David (uxa.cso.uiuc.edu)
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Organization: Linguistics Dept, U-145, UCONN, Storrs CT 06269
X-Acknowledge-To: <CROMANO@UCONNVM>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Fri, 10 Apr 1992 17:12:08 EST
From:         christine romano <CROMANO@UCONNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Seeing your own messages

But i sent the message about not seeing my own messages to the list and
didn't get it back.  I'm not interested in a copy that's in my own notebook.
I mean an actual mail message to me from the list that I submitted to the
list.  I think the command has "repro" in it, but I can't figure out the
exact syntax of the command.
From: ANNE@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Subject: Re: Lane on Lane
Date: 13 Apr 92 19:44:15 GMT
Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center

In article <DEAF-L%92041301535380@SIUCVMB.BITNET>, LEW@TAUNIVM.BITNET (Lew
Golan) says:
>
>     As for your not having strong opinions on how deaf people should
>marry: that's a red herring. Nobody said anything about how DEAF people
>should marry.
>     This whole thing is about the attitude of HEARING people toward the
>deaf. You rebutted Bell's position by paraphrasing George:
>
>>  Hearing persons willing to marry someone deaf are commonly inferior
>>  to their spouse morally, socially, or intellectually, or seek the
>>  alliance for reasons other than love.
>
>     According to your book, you, as a hearing person, apparently agree
>that no hearing person in his right mind would marry a deaf person.
>
>Lew Golan, Tel-Aviv University <lew@vm.tau.ac.il>

I think part of the dispute about this quote is the judgment that Lane
appears to be making about the hearing persons who marry deaf persons.
The quote seems to be saying that those hearing people *are* "commonly"
inferior, etc (quotes mine).  First, it looks like Lane is saying these
hearing people are inferior.  It's possible that what he meant here is
that a large number of hearing people who marry deaf people, when
*they* are asked whether they consider themselves superior to their
spouse, say "yes".  That is to say, a large number of the hearing spouses
believe *themselves* to be superior, and that they may in fact give
this as the *reason* why they're willing to marry their deaf spouse.
(ie, Why did you marry a deaf person?  Because I could help lift them
from their lowly status in life, etc.)

As a scientist, I'm used to looking for the true facts on any stand, and
it does bother me that Lane does not make it clear whether he's talking
about George's judgement of hearing spouses, the judgment of the hearing
spouse him/herself, or his own judgment.  But I think it is possible
that the judgment is based on what hearing spouses have said themselves,
and is not his own judgment.

Lee Anne
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Organization: Linguistics Dept, U-145, UCONN, Storrs CT 06269
X-Acknowledge-To: <CROMANO@UCONNVM>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Fri, 10 Apr 1992 15:35:17 EST
From:         christine romano <CROMANO@UCONNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      seeing your own messages

Sorry to bother people on the list with this, but how can I set it
up so that I can see my own messages; i.e. so that when I send something
into the list, it gets sent to me along with getting sent to everyone
else?  Thanks.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Tue, 7 Apr 1992 09:41:24 EDT
From:         "Tilak Ratnanather" <tratnana@EUREKA-GOLD.WBME.JHU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Question about TDD
X-To:         DEAF-L%SIUCVMB.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu

TDD stands for Telecommunications Device for the Deaf. It is sometimes
used interchangeably with TTY (TeleTYpewriter). But with the advent of
computers and modems, the Federal government has introduced a generic
term: TextTelephone (TT) along with other mind boggling federalese jargon!

In United Kingdom, TDDs are known as Minicoms use of which has proliferated
in recent years.

Regards

Tilak Ratnanather (ex-patriate Brit!)
Dept of Otolaryngology - Head & Neck Surgery
The Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine, Baltimore, MD.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Mon, 6 Apr 1992 23:53:44 EDT
From:         Mireille <M104540@UQAM.BITNET>
Subject:      RE: A.G. Bell on TV
              6 Apr 1992 19:32:14 EDT from <CASK%CATCC.bitnet@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

I am really sorry, I didn't take the time to record it on my video ! I didn't
think that someone would ask for a copy !
I hope that it will get on the american tv soon, but, I think I can have the
address of the broadcaster here in Canada, and maybe you could write them to
have a copy of the program.
I did saw the second part tonight, and it was most focused on his brillant
inventions, he did other things than invent the telephone !But it didn't show
the war that went on with Gallaudet, we did saw their first encounter, but not
the disputs between the two men that Lane write about.
We did see that he take a part on the education of Helen Keller, and that she
talked and lipread with her hands.I am not sure that it is a good portrayal of
the Deaf or anything, because the wife of A.G. Bell didn't want to learn sign
language or have any contact with the Deaf. She did know the signed alaphabet.
He had a research on genetic cause of deafness, because he wanted so much for
his wife to hear, but didn't continue his work on this field.She was not too
dependant from him, she really had a mind of her own !
But, let me know if you want the video tape, I will ask around if anyone I
know have a copy, or if you want the address of the broadcaster.

Mireille Caissy, Montreal, Que (Can). M104540@UQAM.Bitnet.Ca
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Wed, 15 Apr 1992 07:25:07 CDT
Comments:     Warning -- original Sender: tag was
From:         "Keith Watt: 205-544-4669TTY - AL RELAY: 800-548-2547V"
              <kwatt%hrtr1.span%Fedex.Msfc.Nasa.Gov@SDSC.BITNET>
Subject:      Have as nice a day as you wish to have...<grin>

>Are you seriously telling me that you would rather hear, "*&#$ you and
>hope you die!!!" than "Have a nice day"??? Also, I was trying to be...
>what shall I say... "courteous and respectful" to the other Deaf-L
>subscribers. Is it an unwritten rule that I have to be cruel and a mean
>*&% to them,when I REALLY want to get on their good side and debate valid
>points of various things (granted, opinions may differ at this point).
>I'm not trying to rag on you, just trying to clarify the reason why I say,
>"Have a nice day..."  :)

Hi David -

    It was a joke I happened to have read the day before seeing your
post...my apologies if you thought I was serious,  I was just passing on a
bit of levity I had seen.  I think it's hysterical, really.  Basically I'm
a cheerful person, I assure you!

Have a nice day (really!),

Keith
(cwatt@nasamail.nasa.gov)
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Fri, 17 Apr 1992 14:44:49 EDT
From:         "Philippians 3:10-11" <beeba@VAX001.KENYON.EDU>
Subject:      question
X-To:         deaf-l%siucvmb.bitnet@cunyvm.cuny.edu

um, what is imho?


God Bless!

april beeba
beeba@vax001.kenyon.edu
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