From: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath)
Subject: Re: MORE EXPERIENCE
Reply-To: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept of Computer Science
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 16:14:11 GMT

In article <1992Oct02.122724.40524@bas-a.bcc.ac.uk>, ucsatsd@ucl.ac.uk (-8  Big Bad Bob (B3)  8-) writes:
|> In article <1992Oct1.211045.29302@m.cs.uiuc.edu> mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu writes:
|> >Huh?  How can the second body possibly be electromagnetic?  No test has
|> >EVER detected such a second body on ANY electromagnetic frequency.  
|> >Whatever the second body might be, it has been DECISIVELY shown NOT
|> >to be elctromagnetic.  Just what are you basing this claim on?
|> 
|> I'm basing the electromagnetic nature of the second body primarily on the
|> Kirlian aura experiments. The Kirlian Aura is an electromagnetic field, and
|> I vaguely recall experiments in which 'mystics' have affected compassess 
|> through no discernable means (whilst firmly IN body), claiming that they
|> were merely extending their aura to interfere with the instruments. Hearsay
|> occult law states that the Kirlian Aura is a by-product of the body, and that
|> the subtle bodies also have their own respective fields, of which they are
|> comprised. Its just that the frequency, at this point, is getting very very
|> high. (No, I don't know  how high!)

"Hearsay occult law" to the contrary, Kirilian effects are electromagnetic
effects of the FIRST body.  The physical body is well known to have many
electirical properties, WHAICH CAN BE MEASURED.  (The stories you recall 
of 'mystics' affecting compasses reflect simple and well-known stage 
magician trick, and have nothing at all to do with Kirilian effects.)

It doesn't matter how high the frequency might be, radios or other gear 
would be able to detect it, which never happens.

|> 
|> Anyway, from what I remember of my physics days, the electron has been
|> proven to be a small electromagnetic standing wave in a contained area.
|> Since cyclotron  experiments have proven that electrons are splittable into
|> quarks, as are protons and neutrons, then that means that all 3 types of
|> 'basic' particle are, being made of the same thing, also electromagnetic
|> standing waves. Therefore, all matter is made up of electromagnetic waves
|> as it is, and so the suggestion that any of the subtle bodies is not
|> electromagnetic becomes odd.

Yes, but all matter and energy is DETECTABLE by instruments.  The "second
body" has never been detected by any electromagnetic instrument.  Hence,
the "second body" cannot be ordinary physical matter or energy.  The "first
body" is made up of ordinary matter, but the "second body" cannot be.


|> Incidentally,where do you authenticate your claim that the subtle bodies have
|> been 'DECISIVELY' proven to not be electromagnetic?

Read Susan Blackmore, "Beyond the Body", for the details.  In short,
the "second body" has never been detected by any physical measurement,
despite enthusiastic claims to the contrary.  There are also serious 
theoretical problems with the hypothesis of the second body, electromagnetic 
or not.

Whatever the source of the second body experience, there is no evidence
that it is an electromagnetic phenomenon.

(I admit I used the word 'DECICIVELY' to stir debate, but I believe my 
statement is defensible.)

-- 
  Robert E. McGrath
  Urbana Illinois
  mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body,alt.oobe