From: cory@enigami.mv.com (Cory Kempf)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: changing a newsgroup's moderator
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 13:51:37 EST
Organization: EnigamI, Inc., Nashua, NH
Reply-To: cory@enigami.mv.com
X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.6v1


In article <JIK.92Aug11222217@pit-manager.mit.edu> (news.groups), jik@athena.mit.edu (Jonathan I. Kamens) writes:
>In article <0105011F.ar8mnn@dragon.enigami.mv.com> cory@enigami.mv.com (Cory Kempf) writes:
>
>   And really, is hir oppinion of hir performance really reflective of
>   what the readership of the net thinks about hir performance?  
>
>The mere fact that he is around and wants to vote means something
>about his fitness as moderator.

Really?  Lets say, just for sake of arguement, that I was moderator
of one of the IBM-PC binaries groups.  One day, I saw the light (or
was hit on the head, depending on which side you are on), and decided
to start posting Mac binaries that group to the exclusion of the PC
binaries.  Let us further assume that I think that I am doing a great
job.  See all the traffic in my group?

Does my vote for myself say any thing about my actual performance,
as perceived by the readership as a whole?

This is an *EXTREME* example.  But the point is that the moderator's
oppinion of hirself is really not important when compared to the oppinions
of the readership.  

>You're one of the people who has been arguing that the moderator isn't
>special, that he's just another reader of the newsgroup.  If that's
>the case, then surely he, too, should be able to vote for whomever he
>thinks is best able to moderate the newsgroup.  If that is him, then
>so be it.

Like I said above, I don't think that the people being voted on should
vote in the question.  Especially with the pre-existing weighting.

At any rate, that is just my oppinion of what the moderator SHOULD
decide for hirself.  I do *not* advocate enforcement of said oppinion.

>   There already *IS* a set of guidelines for changes to the status quo.
>   Why do we need to special case changing moderators?
>
>Let's see what the current guidelines say, shall we?  Right at the
>top:
>
>+				 GUIDELINES FOR USENET GROUP CREATION
>+
>+REQUIREMENTS FOR GROUP CREATION:
>+
>+   These are guidelines that have been generally agreed upon across
>+USENET as appropriate for following in the creating of new newsgroups in
>+the "standard" USENET newsgroup hierarchy. They are NOT intended as 
>+guidelines for setting USENET policy other than group creations[...]
>
>"They are NOT intended as guidelines for setting USENET policy other
>than group creations."  Pretty clear, eh?

[begin sarcasm]
Amazing!  The Guidelines for Usenet Group Creation are for group creation.
I never would have guessed.
[end sarcasm]

I am not advocating a change to policy.  I interpret the later section
which states that the moderator should be selected in the discussion
phase, and should be included in the CFV.  Specifically, I interpret
the selection of a moderator as falling under these guidelines:

Given:

+2) The name and charter of the proposed group and whether it will be moderated
+   or unmoderated (and if the former, who the moderator(s) will be) should be
+   determined during the discussion period.

and:

+The Vote

+1) AFTER the discussion period, if it has been determined that a new group is
+   really desired, a name and charter are agreed upon, and it has been
+   determined whether the group will be moderated and if so who will
+   moderate it, a call for votes may be posted to news.announce.newgroups and
+   any other groups or mailing lists that the original request for discussion
+   might have been posted to.

and:

+4) The newgroup message will be sent by the news.announce.newgroups moderator
+   at the end of the waiting period of a successful vote.  If the new group is
+   moderated, the vote-taker should send a message during the waiting period to
+   Gene Spafford <spaf@cs.purdue.edu> and David C. Lawrence <tale@rpi.edu> with
+   both the moderator's contact address and the group's submission address.

imply that the creation process includes selecting a moderator for
moderated newsgroup, and that the moderator is selected by an elective
process.

The only change to the proceedure is that the newgroup message does
not need to be sent (although it would do no harm if it was).  Thus,
A change in moderator falls under the existing newgroup policy, as
a vote to create a new group of the same name, but with a different
selection of moderator.  Or so I see it. 

+C


-------------------------------------------------------------
Cory Kempf                    EnigamI, Inc.
cory@enigami.mv.com           ...!decvax!enigami!cory
Annon:	wi.5036@wizvax.methuen.ma.us

"F' cryin' out loud, it's *your* life; shouldn't you at least examine 
your lifestyle values to see if they are really what *you* want."
										--Keith Lim
Newsgroups: news.groups