From: georgew@hspice.portal.com (George Wu)
Subject: Re: What is real racism? (Re: Was: Why rish asians should vote Republican)
Organization: Meta - Software
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 19:45:10 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.040848.13667@leland.Stanford.EDU> underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
>In article <1992Nov18.023033.3440@hspice.portal.com> georgew@hspice.portal.com
>(George Wu) writes:
>>>And then, Mr. Wu translates my condemnation of Chinese culture into
>>>"hating a man without knowing him".
>>     It seems quite logical to me.  You have condemned an extremely large
>>group of people.  You can't possibly have met every person who holds that
>>cultures' values.
>...
>>>Let's apply Mr. Wu's reasoning to Nazism, a virulent subculture of
>>>Western society, and the Khmer Rouge, a political group.
>>>Then, Mr. Wu basically says, "Hatred of African-Americans, Nazis, or even
>>>the Khmer Rouge are all the same.  You don't know every member of the group.
>>>You just hate them all."
>>     Some of the intrinsic policies of the Nazi Party include anti-Semitism
>>and genocide.  By definition, a Nazi believes in killing Jews.  What
>>comparable belief is intrinsic to one raised in Chinese society?  Chinese
>>culture may be difficult to define, as any culture is, but you're the only
>
>We can apply Mr. Wu's reasoning here.  He claims that in order to judge
>a culture, you must have met every single member of that culture.
>
>Has Mr. Wu met every single Nazi?  I'm sure that he hasn't.  Mr. Wu cannot
>condemn Nazis because he can't make a judgement about them (since he hasn't
>met everyone of them).  To reiterate, Mr. Wu does not believe the following
>statement "By definition, a Nazi believes in killing Jews."
>
>By the way, I condemn Nazis.  I haven't met every one of them; actually,
>I haven't even met one.

     Very well, I grant you have pointed out an error in my argument.  Let
me state it this way: you condemn Chinese culture for certain alleged
abhorrent practices.  Your postings aside, I've seen *no* independent study
or publication stating such behavior is inherent to Chinese culture.  In the
absence of such evidence, I fail to see how you can make such claims about
Chinese culture.

>I do not believe that infanticide is committed by all members of Chinese
>culture.  As someone else noted, that something is not practiced by
>all members of that culture does preclude it from being "intrinsic" to that
>culture.
>
>However, infanticide is much more a part of Chinese culture than Western
>culture.  Not all women in Chinese culture are treated poorly, but the
>treatment of women in Chinese culture is much worse than in Western culture.

     Again, on what basis do you make these claims?

>>[something about the need for data points]

>Let me put this another way.  If tomorrow, the gov'ts of the USA
>and China were wiped, what kind of gov't would the people in those
>countries erect?

>I believe that the people in the USA would erect a democratic gov't,
>again.  I don't have statistical information to back me up.  I have
>not met every member of American society.  However, because I have an
>understanding of American society, I believe that this is a reasonable
>conclusion.

>Similarly, I believe that the people in China would again erect a
>totalitarian gov't because their culture is so oppresive toward
>individuality (and just plain leaving people alone).  I don't have
>statistical information to back me up.  I have not met every member of
>American society.  However, because I have an understanding of Chinese
>society, I believe that this a reasonable conclusion.

     In the absence for the much called for "data points," I can only
conclude your beliefs are without logical or scientific foundation.  I
further conclude the most likely basis of those beliefs is pure and
simple racism.

>People like Mr. Wu and his Chinese-cu friends are apt to criticize,
>not culture, but a person's skin color.  They think that African-Americans
>are inferior because they are black.  They think that Hispanics are
>inferior because they are brown.  They would not hire an African-American
>because her skin is too dark.  They want women who are virgins.

>That's real bigotry.  That's real racism.  That's real sexism.

>Again, Mr. Wu and his Chinese-cu friends believe that culture = genetics.
>They insist that because a person is Chinese-ge, she must also be Chinese-cu.
>This is a belief shared by Nazis, Klansmen, and rednecks; i.e. because
>you are Chinese-ge, you are expected to do the Chinese-cu thing.

     You libel me.  On what basis do you claim I "think that African-
Americans are inferior because they are black?"  I hold none of these
beliefs, and none of my posts has ever indicated such beliefs.  I demand
a public apology and retraction.  It is one thing to debate and even to
point out an error in my logic.  However, it is completely unacceptable
to publicly accuse a man of racism without foundation.  Nowhere in the
referenced post or anywhere else have I ever implied I thought anything
of a man on the basis of his skin color.

							George


-- 
----
George J Wu,  georgew@hspice.portal.com or georgew@metasw.com
Meta-Software,  1300 White Oaks Road,  Campbell, CA 95008,  (408) 369-5400
Never be the first to believe.  Never be the last to deceive.  ---  Chess
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