HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: andyw@meaddata.com (Andy Welter)
Subject: Re: Tires : Slicks vs. Treaded: Help Pleas
Organization: Mead Data Central, Dayton OH
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 13:33:24 GMT
Reply-To: andyw@meaddata.com

In article 718451041@vipunen.hut.fi, bassek@lesti.hut.fi (Basse Kankkonen) writes:
>It ocurred to me that the formula of friction is F=u*m*g
>(u=constant of friction,m=mass,g=acc. 9.81m/s^2)
>This means that the traction is not depending on the area.
>BUT the constant u is depending on the temperature, and a tire with less
>area heats up faster and it will decrease the lifetime of the tire and the 
>grip of course.
>(Thats why cars don't use bicycle wheels!!!)
>
>Basse
>-- 
>
I believe that formula for friction is a simplified one that does not take into
account all variables.  I don't believe this takes into account the shear strength
of the materials in question.  The contant of friction (u) is assumed to be constant
within the range of mass in question.  

In practice, a skinny tire puts much more force/sq area of the contact patch.
when this overcomes the shear strength of the rubber it will slide more than
the formula would imply.  Since wider and slick tires have more square area
in contact with the road, the rubber won't shear off as soon.

As for tire heat, another thing that makes grooved tires heat up faster is 
tread squirm... the treads flexing adds more heat to the tire.  The treads
also give a weak spots that will chunk and blister easier than a smooth surface.

I believe that a bigger tire does tend to have greater rolling resistance than a
smaller one, this may slow down a slick versus a grooved tire and cut into its
fuel economy, but if this was enough to make a difference, you wouldn't see race
cars universally using slicks in the dry. (except for those rally and off road 
crazies :-) )

Note, I am not a materials scientist, physisist, physics student, or tire technition.
In fact, I sometimes even forget to check my tire pressure when I get gas!


---
|Andrew Welter	     |  All views are mine and not |      (513) 865-6822   
|Mead Data Central   |    that of my employer      |      pd&o-ps-ts-dsp       
|P.O. Box 933        |                             |     andyw@meaddata.com
|Dayton, Ohio  45401 |          	           | ...!uunet!meaddata!andyw

Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: thos@suite.sw.oz.au (Thomas Cohen)
Subject: Re: Seeking advice
Organization: Softway Pty Ltd
Date:  7 Oct 92 22:16:01 GMT

In <5639@pita.UUCP> zong@CS.HUJI.AC.IL (Yaniv Azriel) writes:

>The bit about
>the sling (over taking a car by first sitting on its arse), is it for real ? A
>friend of mine, who is a REAL expert of physics, she says it does not make 
>too much sense since the gain from reduced air resistance would not be that 
>significant. Does any one have a certified answer ?

Here is where real life overtakes university education. At 'normal' speeds
the air resistance (read 'drag') would indeed not be a problem. On a car
travelling at 200mph, it certainly is. Doesn't it increase with the square
of the velocity or something?

regards,
-- 
thos cohen  				       |Softway Pty Ltd
"Detachment of any of the four wheels adversely|ACSnet:         thos@softway.oz
 affects vehicle stability..." -               |UUCP: ...!uunet!softway.oz!thos
 National Highway Traffic Safety Administration|Internet:    thos@softway.oz.au
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: b102smi@utarlg.uta.edu (George M. Smiley)
Subject: Re: carbon brakes [was: something about the Honda RA168E engine]
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: The University of Texas at Arlington
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 22:08:00 GMT

(Mark Jackson) writes...
(Richard Banks) forwards comments by A.H.Henry@gdr.bath.ac.uk (Andrew
>Henry), buried in the middle of which we find:
> 
>>     The main advantage
>>     with the carbon brakes is that they are about a half of the weight of
>>     the iron ones.
> 
>Then how is it that they dramatically reduce stopping distance?  Or was
>all of that "banning carbon fiber brakes is a Good Thing because it
>will promote overtaking under braking" stuff posted a while back in
>error?
> 
First off, it is Carbon-carbon brakes, not carbon-fiber. They do not 
dramatically stop braking distances as has been suggested. It is possible
to get the same performance from iron rotors if one is willing to use
a thick, large diameter rotor. But, as Andrew pointed out, iron weighs
a good deal more than carbon brakes and that weight is in fairly important
place on the race car as it is affects suspension reaction.

Another point to consider is the way the brake material reacts to heat.
As tire adhesion went up, braking pressure increased and along with it 
heat increased. Small iron rotors are unable to shed this increased heat
and they will enventually shatter. (I've witnessed this on a motorcyle -
not a fun thing at all.) Carbon-carbon brakes react in the opposite manner.
Early designs had poor coefficients of friction and tended to react slowly
until enough heat was built up to allow the carbon brakes to grab. So, in
fact, iron brakes reacted in a linear fashion (the harder you braked the
faster you slowed) whilst carbon brakes offered nonlinear response (one
would brake poorly until enough heat built up and the fun began).

However, this has become achient history. People much smarter than myself 
have found ways (varying the weave pattern, varying the resins, even 
modifying the carbon strands themselves) to create carbon brake systems
with high coefficients and quick reaction times. However, they are in 
no way superior to iron brakes eccept for weight and they cost an ever
increasing amount of money as the resin materials grow ever more exotic
and the processes more complex.

I, for one, look for the day that engine builders begin to exploit
carbon-carbon technology to make such stuff as pistons and connecting
rods. Such designs would make for some very high-revving motors which
in turn would lead to more power. There exist motorcycle race engines
using both, but, they are few and far between. Why none in the self
proclaimed leader of motorsport engineering, F1 ? 

Against the rules ? Infeasible for larger motors ?

Andrew ?

George.
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: salil@igor.tamri.com (Salil Saxena)
Subject: IMSA Supercar Del Mar results
Organization: TOSHIBA America MRI, South San Francisco, CA
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 18:18:40 GMT

Here are the results of the IMSA Bridgstone Supercar series at Del Mar.

 1. Hans Stuck		Porsche 911T
 2. Doc Bundy		Lotus XR180
 3. David Murray	Lotus XR180
 4. Andy Pilgram	Lotus XR180
 5. Hurley Haywood	Porsche 911T
 6. Chet Fillip		Consuiler GTP
 7. Mike Brockman	Lotus XR180
 8. Kenny Wallace	Corvette LT1
 9. Willy Lewis		Mazda RX7
10. Casf Whitehead	Nissan 300ZX TT
11. Shane Lewis		Consuiler GTP
12. Sean Roe		Corvette L98
13. Jarett Freeman	Porsche 944T
14. Lon Bender		Porsche 944T
15. Bow Lemler		Lotus XR180
       (Lemier ?)

Results taken from the San Francisco Chronical 10/12/92

-- 
Salil Saxena		Gotta love those British Roadsters - '91 Lotus Elan SE
Toshiba America MRI, Inc.		Internet: salil@igor.tamri.com	
South San Francisco, CA  94080		Phone: (415) 872-2722 x2283
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Opionions expressed are mine and only mine <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: jcsmith@eos.ncsu.edu (Jay C. Smith)
Subject: Re: New Galmer at Nazareth. Why?
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 13:26:29 GMT

In article <1992Oct7.172303.2071@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> colfelt@ucsu.Colorado.EDU 
(Andrew BW Colfelt) writes:
>Maybe if someone can post Little Al's performances at Loudon
>and Phoenix we can get a read on how bad the G92 really is
>on 1 mile (albeit banked) ovals? 

Al qualified 11th at Phoenix and finished 5th, 3 laps down.
Danny qualified 7th at Phoenix and finished 12th, 17 laps down.

Al qualified 6th at Loudon and finished 8th, 5 laps down.
Danny qualified 18th at Loudon and finished 9th, 7 laps down.
(Remember, New Hampshire qualifying order was based on practice times.)

Al qualified 13th at Nazareth and finished 11th, 5 laps down.
Danny qualified 11th at Nazareth and had a suspension failure.

--
Jay C. Smith
Domain/internet: jcsmith@eos.ncsu.edu
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Good.  For a minute I thought we were in trouble."
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: pmh2962@tamsun.tamu.edu (Patrick Michael Hayes)
Subject: NASCAR Stuff: Charlotte (Spoiler for MY 500 pole)
Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 03:13:29 GMT

Howdy!
	According to UPI sources Richard Petty became the first inductee
in Charlotte's Court of Legends.  The King pressed both hands and his
right foot (!) into wet cement as part of the induction ceremony.  STP
reported that Richard also signed his millionth autograph today at
Charlotte.
	Qualifying for the MY 500 was held at night -- with (look out!)

Alan Kulwicki getting his 6th pole; speed was 179 mph.  Second
was Ken Schrader, 178.8; followed by Irvan, Martin, and Rudd.
	Jimmy Spencer takes over Jeff Purvis' spot in the Bobby
Allison TBird while Jeff recovers from injuries.
	Sterlin Marlin inks a 3-year deal with Stavola Bros/Raybestos.
	New Hampshire (you lucky dogs!) gets a WC race in 93. <What
about TWS?, sniff!>

	Thanks to UPI for the info.
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pat Hayes, Meteorology, TAMU  <whoop!>  " ... Aggie by the grace of God."
net: phayes@tamu.edu -or- O&M 1008, TAMU, CS, TX 77843-3150 (409)845-1680 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: b102smi@utarlg.uta.edu (George M. Smiley)
Subject: Re: Speed Comparison
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: The University of Texas at Arlington
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 16:28:00 GMT

jsw@umiacs.umd.edu (Jeff Webber) writes...
b102smi@utarlg.uta.edu (George M. Smiley) writes:
>>Oh, but wait, you guys will love this one:
>>
>>Track       Motorcycle Lap Record  (91)   91 Nascar Pole Time
>>
>>Watkins Glen   1:32.340                      1:11.851
>>Sears Point    1:42.000                      1:40.095
> 
>Watkins Glen has different lengths depending on how it is set up.
>Were they both using the same course length??
> 
It has been pointed out to me that Nascar drivers are afraid to
run the full course whereas the WERA Sprints were run on the long
version. So one can safely assume that a 500cc GP machine 
would be somewhat faster than a NASCAR WC car around a road
circuit. 

Now that I think about it, did NASCAR use the turn one chicane
at Sears Point in 91 ? The aforementioned lap record is without
the chicane. With the chicane add 2 seconds.

George

Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: CENG51@maccvm.corp.mot.com (Craig Witkowski)
Subject: Re: Top Five (US) drivers; forget the tracks ....
Organization: Motorola
Date: 11 Oct 1992 16:36:36 CDT

------------------------- Original Article -------------------------
Being a GREAT fan of the Dutch Boy, I'd be REALLY interested in how you
arrived at this conclusion.

BTW it's spelled Luyendyk.  You know "lazy on the dyke".

Rob U
--
-       Rob Unglenieks             REAL race cars DON'T wear BOWTIES       -
------------------------- Reply ------------------------------------

Then how come it's taken so long for the FoMoCo Blue Oval to wrangle the
NASCAR Manufacturers Cup away from the Bowtie Brigade?  Let's see if the
Ford camp can string together another eight MCs together - NOT!

Craig Witkowski                   Have you OUTdriven a Ford lately?
                                  I have (constantly!)
                                  :-)    :-)     :-)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: brien@topcat.b11.ingr.com (Brien Gilliam)
Subject: Re: Jr & Flossie - NOT!
Reply-To: brien@topcat.b11.ingr.com
Organization: Intergraph Corp. Huntsville, AL
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 20:45:26 GMT

In article <1992Oct12.172703.24437@convex.com>, miller@convex.com (Ken Miller) writes:
|> In article <1992Oct12.163653.8344@tamsun.tamu.edu> pmh2962@tamsun.tamu.edu (Patrick Michael Hayes) writes:
|> >this weekend (the JJ development car -- that JJ pulled to get BE
|> >a couple more points when the trackbar gave out) came from.
|> >
|> 	The local paper in Hampton Roads Va. says that Bill Elliott "hit
|> 	the turn 4 wall" on lap 295 while running 6th, which caused the
|> 	problem. The paper also stated Hut Stricklin went out after 305
|> 	laps due to "engine failure". Bill Elliott completed 310 laps.
|> 
|> 	I can see Junior pulling Hut's car out to assist Elliott, but
|> 	after the **great** coverage by TBS, I wonder if Hut's car actually
|> 	did have problems? Did Elliott actually come in contact with the
|> 	turn 4 wall? Can anyone confirm/deny this?
|> 

I didn't notice any damage on the right side of the car. I did wonder why he
didn't get into the wall when the bar mooring broke.

Hut wasn't running very well; I can see Junior telling him to "park it". 

Looks like a three-way, maybe four-way, duel for the Championship. 
Go Bill!   Go Mark!

-- 

	Brien C. Gilliam
	Intergraph Corporation		brien@topcat.b11.ingr.com
	Huntsville, AL 35894		(205)730-5652
From: jth4@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (JON T. HUTCHINSON)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Nascar address needed
Date: 12 Oct 92 14:02:47 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University


   I am looking for the address and phone number (if possible) for the
   publication  " Winston Cup Scene". I believe that is the name. Also, are
   there any other Nascar/Winston Cup publications available. Thanks in advance.
-- 
________________________________________________________________________

Jon T. Hutchinson, Network Coordinator
Office of Telecommunications
office 215-758-5099
fax    215-758-6127
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: trubik@triton.unm.edu (S. M. Trujillo)
Subject: HELP - Need Net access in Indianapolis
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 92 01:53:30 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
Distribution: usa

First, I apologize for this abuse of the net.

I'll be in Indianapolis 10/14-20 and will (likely) need access to a 
(preferably) UNIX system on which I can complete some schoolwork 
while I take care of other things in town.  Is there a public access
system in the town?  Is there someone at IUPUI who can help?  I'd be 
willing to drive up to Purdue (Rob U, are you out there?) or down to 
IU if necessary.

Again, I apologize for this abuse of the net.  I didn't know what 
would be the appropriate group to post such a request to, and thought 
my net.friends at r.a.s. might be able to help out.  Please send any 
responses and/or flames via e-mail if possible.

Thanks,
-- 
--  s  t  e  v  e  n
:: :: :: :: :: :: ::
"fire on the hemisphere below" - b/b/m/s
From: dans@rehab1.UUCP (Dan Schein)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Nazareth Notes  IndyCars
Date: 6 Oct 92 17:15:19 GMT
Reply-To: dans@rehab1.UUCP (Dan Schein)
Organization: Reading Rehab Hospital, Reading PA

In article <1992Oct5.100612.52423@gmuvax.gmu.edu> dreining@gmuvax.gmu.edu writes:
>Let's start with the good stuff:
>
>Was Penske using a crude form of spread spectrum 
>technology to keep folks from listening in on 
>team conversations? It was difficult to follow their
>transmissions as the signal seemed to skip between
>a couple of different channels. It was not very fast
>though. The signal remained on one channel for 15-20
>seconds.

  I couldn't find the Marlboro Penske's Saturday or Sunday! However I was
 listening to Paul Tracy on Sunday. He chats quite a bit for a guy whos
 in competition.

  What frequencies were you monitoring for the Marlboro's ?!?

 -Dan
-- 
  Reading Rehabilitation Hospital                 Network Adminstration,
  Dan Schein - Information Systems    __|__       Programming, Parenting,
  RD 1 Box 250                   ______(*)______  Rappelling, and soon...
  Reading, PA 19607                   o/ \o       Sky Diving!

  rehab1!dans@cbmvax.commodore.com -OR- {uunet,rutgers}!cbmvax!rehab1!dans
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: cornutt@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov (David Cornutt)
Subject: Rumors of my death...
Organization: NASA/MSFC
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 21:17:58 GMT

... have been greatly exaggerated.  We've been switching over to a
server system for our PCs here.  It's been exasperating at times,
but I've now got a direct network link to lambda.  That RS-232
stuff is outta here! :-)

Now, to start a new topic: does anyone *really* want to win the WC
championship?  The Elliott and Allison teams sure don't look like it...
could this be Mark Martin's year after all?

-- 
David Cornutt, New Technology Inc., Huntsville, AL  (205) 461-4517
(cornutt@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov; some insane route applies)
"The opinions expressed herein are not necessarily those of my employer,
not necessarily mine, and probably not necessary."
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: taylor@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Ross Taylor,Peyt312,6652,2655436)
Subject: Re: F1 Portugal--AutoSprint  summary
Organization: Clarkson University
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 12:42:04 GMT

From article <1992Oct12.220322.6470@fys.ruu.nl>, by koopman@fys.ruu.nl (Rob Koopman):
> Another summary of news from AutoSprint. Issue nr 40 was printed
> after the Portugese GP (and before the Estoril tyre tests).
> 
[stuff deleted]


> tap in fuel line that allows FISA personell to rapidly take fuel
> monsters.

> That's it
> Rob Koopman

For the most part, you'd never guess that Rob is from Holland by his English
which is very good.  Just occasionally he gives it away as he does in this
delightful sentence.

For those who don't know and coudn't guess, a monster is a sample.

My favorite Dutch to English translation is their word for guinea pig
(as in experimental animal).  The Dutch word is proef-konijn (Rob, check
my spelling) which literally translated means test rabbit!

Ross Taylor
From: jth4@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (JON T. HUTCHINSON)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Michael Waltrip
Date: 13 Oct 92 02:04:07 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University


  Does anybody know why Michael Waltrip punched Dave Marcis in the mouth after
  the race? Does this have anything to do with what happened on or off the
  track??
-- 
________________________________________________________________________

Jon T. Hutchinson, Network Coordinator
Office of Telecommunications
office 215-758-5099
fax    215-758-6127
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 12:27:32 EDT
From: Jonathan Swaby <JFS10@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Rahal's '93 Chasis (was Re: New Galmer at Nazareth. Why?)
 <1992Oct7.150255.24734@cbnews.cb.att.com>

In article <1992Oct7.150255.24734@cbnews.cb.att.com>, nrc@cbnews.cb.att.com (N.
Richard Caldwell) says:

>From article <71839246512645@c00484-224wi.eos.ncsu.edu>, by                   u
>jcsmith@eos.ncsu.ed
>(Jay C. Smith):
>> In article <5OCT199221582602@utarlg.uta.edu> b102smi@utarlg.uta.edu
>> (George M. Smiley) writes:
>>>On a related note, how good is the Truesports chassis ? Rahal seemed
>>>to think it worth risking next years title hopes (he has to be the
>>>favorite with Andretti gone) on.
>>
>> Will Rahal be using a Truesports chassis?  I thought the future of that was
>> still very much up in the air, especially for '93.

>Same question here.  Did I miss something?  Last I heard, Rahal would
>be taking over the Truesports facility but there was no mention at all
>of him taking over the Truesports chasis.  In fact, I got the distinct
>impression that effort was effectively dead at the end of this season.
I heard on ESPN coverage of the last indycar race that Rahal likes the
chassis, so much that he will use it next year. Apparently he has hired
the cars designer. I think the car is to be powered by a chevy C.

>Will Rahal be picking up this development effort?
I think if he wins the championship he probably won't have a problem
with funding.

Jonathan Swaby
From: conrad@pico.qpsx.oz.au (Conrad Drake)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: carbon brakes [was: something about the Honda RA168E engine]
Date: 14 Oct 92 08:11:51 GMT
Reply-To: conrad@pico.qpsx.oz.au
Organization: QPSX Communications
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

[stuff about brakes and pistons deleted, half of the "why not motors"
question also accidentally deleted]
: not being able to use composites in stuff like connecting rods, because
: you can't really put a wrist pin in it, as well as the resin couldn't with-
: stand that much heat. But, if a piston could, I don't see why a rod couldn't.
: Kap Parfrey is the resident expert on composites here. Would you be so kind
: as to help here, Kap?????????
: 
Well, not being Kap, I'll stick my 2c (Oz) in.

I remember that in the early-to mid 80's a mob in the USoA were racing a
sports car with a carbon fibre motor.  The only bits that were not
carbon were the pistons and combustion chambers, for heat reasons. 
(noting that Cosworth now provides ceramic topped pistons it should be
possible to solve that, too).

No references, I'm afraid - I think it was a towards/beyond 2000 doco.

My reasons why not?  Carbon doesnot offer remachinablity.  Plus the cost
would be horrific, even by F1 standards.

These are the reasons given by the bike racers for not using carbon
chassis (they tend to move their motors around in the frame a lot).

Comments from the more knoweledgeable?

Conrad (who cannot spelle todaye^h)
--
"A carnival of misery so tragically our own,
 Where gathered 'round the ballot box we reap what we have sown"
               "These Festivals" Leunig, 1992

Email: conrad@pico.qpsx.oz.au
Snail: QPSX Communications, Private Bag 24, West Perth 6005, Australia. 
Numbers:(ph) +61 9 324 1641, (fx) +61 9 321 2984 (dod) 0604
From: welty@cabot.balltown.cma.COM (richard welty)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: race car project: ITB Alfetta Sedan
Date: 7 Oct 92 22:11:00 GMT
Organization: New York State Institute for Sebastian Cabot Studies

In article <1992Oct05.171931.19731@i88.isc.com> dye@i88.isc.com (Ken R. Dye ) writes:
>To me, it doesn't make sense to wait a whole year doing time
>trials.  Around here, anyway, the Alfa clubs wants something
>like $250 for Road America, while typical race entries run
>around $125 (and a lot more bang for the buck).  Which would
>you rather have your car break at?

sounds like pricing is just about reversed out your way.  typically i
can do driving schools around here for under $100 per day (note that
i prefer driving schools to time trials for the purposes of just doing
laps; time trial formats in these parts leave a lot to be desired.)

>Anyway, what worked for me:

>1) get the car safe

certainly this is an issue; however -- the thing is that the car i'm
starting on has been siting for a while (ever since a bad intake valve
was diagnosed), and it's never had a real going over.  i'm already time
trialing and going to club driving schools; for me this will be a car
change more than anything else, at least initially.  when i believe that
the car works, and when i'm comfortable with it, i'll go racing (preferably
at the start of the season rather than the end of it.)

>2) get a MILD motor overhaul(something that will *last*, no 11.0:1
> compression)

SCCA IT rules don't permit anything more than a mild motor overhaul.
i'm figuring to get a good but not exotic valve job done, and hope that
the bottom end of this motor is reasonably sound.  if it isn't; well,
i'm busy collecting used 2 liter alfa bottom ends.

>3) whatever $$$ are left can go for mild suspension tweaks and race
>   entry fees

not to mention mandatory safty gear like driving suits, etc.

i think i'm just approaching more slowly than most; a shortage of that
most basic of necessities (cash) is a contributing factor here.

richard
-- 
richard welty                            518-393-7228
welty@cabot.balltown.cma.com
  ``if you can read this, mario, you're too close''
    -- bumper sticker seen on a CART safety truck
From: yeung@teecs.UUCP (Elvin(K.K.) Yeung)
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 01:40:06 GMT
Subject: Re: Senna test drive Williams
Organization: Litton Systems, Toronto ONT