From: thompson@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: PC (OS/2) / Amiga debate -- hopefully a rational debate, an I an ideali
Date: 3 Sep 92 15:35:16 CDT
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

In article <BtxoCu.In4@starnine.com>, mikeh@starnine.com (Mike Haas) writes:
> In article <1992Aug27.161036.384@ctr.columbia.edu> jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>>In article <BtM61A.Bs@starnine.com> mikeh@starnine.com (Mike Haas) writes:
>>
>>OS/2 itself is solid.  There are bugs in the WPS, but the WPS is brand new
>>software -- and very sophisticated software at that.
> 
> That's why it has bugs?  Because it's s-o-o-o sophisticated?

As sophistication goes up, so does the chance of bugs.  Are you rational
enough to see this?

> 
>>
>>>
>>>>Don't compare OS/2 2.0 to AmigaDOS -- AmigaDOS
>>>>isn't even close in terms of functionality,
>>>
>>>Of course it is... pre-emptive multitasking, GUI based system.  Probably
>>>better than OS/2 in real-time response.  Addresses 1.8 GIG of memory.
>>>Multi-media capable... make that natural.
>>>
>>
>>It still isn't even close to OS/2 in terms of functionality.
> 
> Sure Jerry, you can just stand there and repeat it over and over...

O.K.  Device independent graphics, virtual memory, ability to run a 
virtual machine running MS-DOS, DR-DOS, or most any real mode operating
system, compatible with 28,000 DOS apps, 4-5,000 Windows apps, and 
1-2,000 OS/2 apps (numbers are approximate) plus anyting that runs under
a real mode operating system booted in a virtual machine, every process
runs in its own memory address space--protects the apps from each other,
30 day money back guarantee, etc.  I could go on.

>>
>>How much for one of those BridgeBoards?  What's on it, a 286?  If you think
>>a BridgeBoard is comparable to having a PC, you're sadly mistaken.
> 
> I know... with the 386 BB from C=, you also have the AMiga!
> You're right!  A PC can't compare!
> 

Again, how much for a 386 BB?  Are they shipping?  What chip is on it?
A dx, sx, 20mHz, etc.?  

>>>
>>>Yeah.  I have both 2.04 AND 1.3 installed on my hard disk in less than
>>>8 meg (my 2.04 partition is 6 meg and has 3 meg free).
>>>
>>>From what I understand, OS/2 needs something over 30 meg, minimum?
>>>'Zat right?
>>>
>>
>>'Zat's wrong.
> 
> Well, Jerry, what's the right number? 28Meg? 25Meg?  Decline to comment?

It is wrong.  It can take up 17 megs for just OS/2 compatibility.  At 
work, with OS/2 fully installed, it takes 27 megs.  Anyway, you are 
getting two operating systems, and an operating environment (Windows),
plus Adobe Type Manager 2.0.  You are also getting more features.  If 
you don't want the features, you can nix them off your hard disk.

> 
>>No video support out of the box?!  What box?
>>Find me a clone vendor that doeesn't sell complete systems.
> 
> Yeah.  All different.  Show me 2 vendors that sell the SAME system?

Gateway, High Definition, Acma, and hundreds of others will sell you
the same system configuration.  They may have peripherals made by 
different companies, but they operate the same.  If you want to be
locked into just a few choices and a few prices for a computer, fine.
I prefer competition to drive the price down.  And please don't
spout off about incompatibilities, because I have had no problems.

> 
>>
>>Kludged in?!  You mean, kind of like your built-in flicker-fixer, Mike?
> 
> No, I don't mean factory-installed, present-in-every-system features.
> BTW, the interlace of the AMiga is a GOOD THING.  It's one of the
> reasons the Amiga is so much better at video that Intel trash.
> (Seen Pournelle's latest column?  Even HE admits how superior
> the Amiga is for creating multi-media!).
> 
> The fact that some systems flicker simply means their owners
> can have high-quality tools at less cost.  MY system is
           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> rock-solid.  Just like Amiga VS. PC prices...you get what
> you pay for!

What?  You totally lost me.  Interlace is good?  You like going blind?
(And by the way, Pournelle is no authority on anyting--my opinion as
well as the opinion of many others (source:  postings on usenet))

So flickering is a sign of high quality?  Sure it means low cost, but
high quality?  What are you saying?  

My system's display is flicker free because it is noninterlaced.  
1024x768x256 colors at 70 Hz refresh rate.  That is higher quality
than a flickering 43 Hz interlaced display.  

Concerning prices.  PC's are not lower in price because they lack
quality.  They are lower in price due to market competition.  
Commodore does not have to worry about that.  They can set their
prices at whatever they want.

> 
> Didn't have much to say about PC's until I started working with them
> about a year ago.  Since then... I have seen no elegance...nothing
> of "cool design"...absolutely NOTHING to endear me to the machine in
> any way.  In fact, quite the opposite (obviously).  It reminds me
> of that Chevy Vega I had years ago... I feel damn lucky when I get it
> to do what I want!
> 
> 8-character filenames & single-letter drives...tsk, tsk.
> 
> Face it... they're garbage!

You have not make the distintion between hardware and software.
8 character filenames are gone in OS/2.  It is not a limit of
the hardware.  Before you bash PC's, you should:

1)  Make sure you know what you're talking about or your posts will
    degenerate into threads of correction after correction.
    I'm not saying you don't entirely know what you are talking
    about, just there are some things that are in error.

2)  Be a bit more rational.  Lose the emotion bit.  Then you won't
    start a flame thread, instead you'll start an informative thread
    about the differences between Amigas and PC's.

3)  If you have to bash the PC, at least specify if you are bashing
    the hardware aspect or the software aspect.

-- 
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|  Charles A. Thompson               |  thompson@ukanvm.cc.ukans.edu         |
|  University of Kansas              |  thompson@ukanvax.cc.ukans.edu        |
|  _Avid_ SkiBum                     |  OS/2 2.0 is for YOU!!!               |
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Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy