HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: memon@acsu.buffalo.edu (Naveed Siraj Memon)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re maindki ko zukam ....
Date: 10 Apr 92 04:28:33 GMT
Organization: UB

From: ss511583@longs.LANCE.ColoState.EDU (Sohban Shahid)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Re maindki ko zukaam. Take some advil




>Naveed you know it very well that Jafry is an exceptional budy but  what 
>happened to you. Jafry was on one extreme  and you are  the other extreme.
>Kahaan zameen aur woo bhee jafry jaisee zameen aur kahaan woo roushan
>fhallak.  Can we live somewhere in between?   I think so we can buy it.


Are you calling me the roshan fallak :) I did not think so. Sahab! hum to 
rayt kay zarooN ke manind bikhar jayaN gay. Rahee baat Jafry kee, to chota
bhai hay. Duniya maiN jeenay ka tariqa sikhana chahta hoN onhaiN. Pyar muhabat
sikhana chata hoN onhaiN. Khoon khool to uThata hay jab va zubaaN kholtay haiN
but I love my extreme insanity but you may have figured that one out by now.
Islam nay kabhi muhabat kay baghayr dil naheeN jeetay. Instead of calling me
the other side of the extreme, the ones wanting to live in the middle seem to 
conform to his extreme logic rather than switching to the path that I have 
sought to choose or atleast questioning his ways if they don't see where I am 
coming from. Even otherwise whenever Islam was forceful it produced counterprod-
uctive missionaries. If you have not realised that by now judging from Jafry's ,
logic then his forcefulness and the overwhelming silence of those searching the
middle ground are a losing cause to the Faith. Meanwhile if I ever come across
as another maniac then I guess I have to apologize 'cause I know that scpians
love conformity. Aur is pagal kay din thoRay haiN vasay bhee. Once I return to 
sohni dharti, I would have to re learn how to be keep my mouth shut if ever 
came across the jafrys. Is vehshat kay din thoRay haiN. (jafry kay) zulm kee
meyaad kay din thoRay haiN. 







Naveed[jis dil vich pyar dee dayray hin
       bas us dil kooN irfaan samajh
       jay kooN pyar dee jaaN sunJan naheeN
       os banday kooN nadaan sumjh  
       aye pyar ay dars waliyaaN da
       aye maslak paak nabeeyan da
       inmool pyar dee doolat aye] Memon


again apologies to seraiki speaking people on the net. 


>----------------------------------------------------
>SOHBAN SHAHID              e-mail ss511583@longs.lance.ColoState.Edu
>Civil Engg. Dept.                    (303) 491 5844/8204 (work)
>Colorado State University (303) 224 0397  (home)
>Ft. Collins, CO-80523
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.indian
From: khan@davidsys.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: 2 + 2 = 5
Date: 8 Apr 92 11:08:23 PST
Organization: DAVID Systems Inc, Sunnyvale CA

  If you add two plus two and it equals four in
your mind, but then supposing you find that
Islam says that two plus two equals five, then
you better go with Islam, because in the end
when your perception of this universe is allowed
to improve, you will find that 2 + 2 = 5!

  Thus, God wants to check if you trust Him.
This is the whole story of this world. 
It is the ultimate illusion, created to test
a human being's imaan.

  Do not go too much into worldly schemes.
You will get further away from developing
the ability to distinguish from reality
and illusion. Always look for Signs, and for
that you need a soft heart, a heart that
can hear the whisper of the wind, the pattern
of circumstances and their effects.

  You are actually two entities: the body
and the soul. The soul understands imaan,
but the body may be unaware of its own soul.
When the body's need for ego is vanquished,
soul and body become one, and the body recognizes
the soul. It is important to perform prayer
and remembrance of Allah swt to make this
connection between the two entities.
From: zafar@splinter.coe.northeastern.edu (Syed Z. Kazmi)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Qadiani
Date: 16 Apr 92 18:45:48 GMT
Article-I.D.: splinter.ZAFAR.92Apr16144548
Distribution: soc.culture.pakistan
Organization: Northeastern University


In article <1992Apr16.133711.495@ccu.umanitoba.ca> umnoor@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Nasir Ahmed Noor) writes:


>   Altaf,
>   Get a life babe.
>
>   I direct thee to my ``open letter'' still on the net.
>   Either prove your claim that Ahmadis are non-Muslims and their
>   beliefs are anti-Islam from Quran or Shut Up.  Isn't it strange
>   that every body comes up and calls us Ahmadis Non-Muslim and
>   Hazrat Ahmad an imposter but can't prove the claim. Well here is
>   a little secret for you---if you keep on following your maulvis
>   with blind folded eyes, this is bound to happen. And just to get
>   a real life falvour of the type of knowledge your maulvis posses
>   and distribute, read a (now classic) letter posted by Jafry a few
>   weeks ago.
>
>   loosen up!! Islam has already suffered *A LOT* at hands of people 
>   like yourself.


Dearest Noor

You are setting the example of "Ulta chor Kotwaal ko daantey".

Whenever a claim(of any sort) is made by a person, it is upto him to
prove his claim right, not on the other people to prove the person
wrong. 

So, it is not our duty to prove that Mirza Ghulam Ahmed was not a
prophet. It is your responsibility to prove him the prophet of God.

If you are unable to prove that then either you are wrong or incapable
of. In both the cases we are not the one to be blamed.

May God show us both the way to his will.

ZAFAR
From: umnoor@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Nasir Ahmed Noor)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Reply #1 to Mr. Jamal Mubarak
Date: 8 Apr 92 15:58:36 GMT
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada

In <t=h+=V#@engin.umich.edu> jamal@caen.engin.umich.edu (Jamal Mubarak) writes:

>Did I stop replying or did you?

Yes and No. Yes in a sense that you  did post a followup, No becuase you
did not deal with the real stuff in my post. Where I prove our interpretation
of Khatam-e-Nabuuat from Quran.
Please, Do not hit ``f'' now, wait till you read my post titled ``reply #3''

>Did I not post a reply to it on the net and even e-mail it to you?

Sir, I did not recieve any mail from you. If I am forgetting it, I am sorry
but the best of my knowledge serves me to the opposite.

>Mr Noor, have you gone totally off your rocker?  Why are you lying?  Did I
                                                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
???

>not reply to you on the net and even e-mail you the article after you said
>that you had not read my reply to it? Are you okay? Has this debate disturbed
                                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>your mental equilibrium?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

???

Please hold your followup/reply until you read my post ``reply #3''--coming
up.

Nasir Ahmed Noor
umnoor@ccu.umanitoba.ca
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: mece1e3@Jane.UH.EDU (Arindam Ghosh)
Subject: Re: Mawdudi & Qadiyanis (III)
Reply-To: mece1e3@Jane.UH.EDU
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 15:35:30 GMT

>--"It is well known to all those who study the history of nations how
>the persian  government maltreated Merza  Ali Mohammad  Bab, the founder
>of Babism and his followers. It destroyed Babism for nothing  else than
>religious disputes. It is as well   known how the Turkish government
>ill-treated Bhah'Allah, the founder of Baha'ism and his followers
>between 1863-1893.  It imprisoned them in Istanbul first then in
>Edranovel and  Acca. We also not know any other three countries which
>demonstrated religious fanatism and narrowness and which do not cope
>with the age of civilization and  culture. Our knowledge of these three
Except that they did not succeed to destroy it and the Bahais did not
need to pray to a foreign power to come as their rescuer.
Arindam

Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: ahmad@ec.ecn.purdue.edu (Rashid Ahmad)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: A Poem by Faiz.
Date: 14 Apr 92 18:12:45 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network


      Here is the last part of one of Faiz's greatest masterpieces,
      'Mulaqat'. It always strikes me as the cry of hope for the wretched
      who, even in their misery, turn to good tidings.


      Alam naseebon, jigar figaron
      Ki subh aflaak par nahin hai
      Jahan pe ham tum khare hen donon
      Sahar ka roshan ufq yahin hai
      Yahin pe gham ke sharar khil kar
      Shafaq ka gulzar ban gaye hain
      Yahin pe qatil dukhon ke teeshe
      Qatar andar qatar kirnon
      Ke aatsheen haar ban gaye hen.

      Yeh gham jo iss raat ne diya hai
      Yeh gham sahar ka yaqeen bana hai
      Yaqeen jo gham se kareem tar hai
      Sahar jo shab se azeem tar hai.
From: hyder@cs.utexas.edu (Syed Irfan Hyder)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Mr. Maudoodi,Islamic State and Constitution
Date: 12 Apr 1992 13:29:40 -0500
Organization: U Texas Dept of Computer Sciences, Austin TX
NNTP-Posting-Host: pageboy.cs.utexas.edu

In article <1992Apr10.223101.24221@prism.poly.edu> ahussain@prism.poly.edu (Arshad Hussain) writes:

>The land gives sense of patriotism, not the religion.


Would you please elaborate on the above comment?

Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: mirza@sce.carleton.ca (Murad A. Mirza)
Subject: Re: Mr. Mirza plays and misses (burqa and women)
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 00:09:47 GMT

hyder@cs.utexas.edu (Syed Irfan Hyder) writes:


>Dear Murad Mirza:

>	I just don't know how to comment on your recent form
>where "burqa and women" are concerned. 

>I think you are being consistently
>beaten outside the off-stick. You are playing again and again
>and missing. You are fortunate that some of your thick inside
>edges barely missed the stumps by hair-line. You may consider
>yourself lucky to be still out there.
>I know that outfield has moisture on it , adding extra
>pace to the ball. Also, there is wind moving in from the covers,
>and angling in to the batsman, further 
>aiding the occasional in-cutters. Further complicating the
>situation, is the over-cast sky.

>The reason why you have been unable to judge the pace and
>swing of the ball is that you are not concentrating. Furthermore
>your bat is often away from the body. You must try to come in
> line before you attempt a stroke. If you are having
>difficulty in judging the pace of the ball, try to come
>on the front foot meeting at  the pitch of the ball instead of going
>on the back foot.

>Furthermore, the bowler is intelligently exploiting
>the rough on the pitch. Bowler is also varying  the pace. 
>I would recommend that
>you do some gardening and try to pave the rough made
>by the other bowler who is stepping on to the wicket from the
>other side. If you are really having difficulty, why
>don't you seek  help from the umpire:

>regards

>Irfan Hyder

assalam alaikum karaar bhai

as you have noted i don't have any concentration, what was i saying?
as you, lo phir bhool gaya, dimagh kahin aur hay aur zehan kahin

bowler kay vary niary ho rahay hain, umpire (Nadia) ko doosri team
ney ziada paisay offer ker diyae hain, islaey aab Nadia say Wasi hogaya.

though i have to say bowler is too intelligence to be true, kahin Nadia =
Wasi aur bowler = Khan tou nahin (bowler will say typical mail shovanizm)

Charana Utarna Uthana Bithana Hamara Kam hay. bowler ko khush ho lanay
dain bus Allah unki honay wali SAS pur reham karay.

Murad [afraid of the DAY] Mirza

as 
                  
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: arkay@leland.Stanford.EDU (Abdur Khan)
Subject: Re: baser instincts and religion
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 92 14:32:32 GMT

In article <1992Apr16.112351.20490@doug.cae.wisc.edu> ahasan@cae.wisc.edu (Ali Hasan) writes:
>In article <1992Apr16.050813.23464@leland.Stanford.EDU> arkay@leland.Stanford.EDU (Abdur Khan) writes:
>>
>>My dear felow brothers,
>>a few weeks ago i saw this disgusting and dirty movie called baser instincts.
>>
>>tooba tooba tooba , may god have pity on these people. The movie has no story 
>>
>>and is only about sex and sex nothing else. No wonder american society is 
>
>...[deleted]...
>
>	I was planning to see that movie on sunday, but reading this,
>	I think I'll go on friday!
>
>						--ali.
>
>-- 

Mr Ali,

don't don't be corrupted by western society it will only lead you to evil,
shaitan and hell.

listen to me i have already seen the movie it is very very bad.

sahibzada rafay khan[ looking for ......... blonde,redhead,brunnette all in one
From: memon@acsu.buffalo.edu (Naveed Siraj Memon)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Request
Date: 14 Apr 92 00:36:45 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: UB






Does anyone have an account of the celebration in Pak following the Pakistani
win in the World Cup in Aust-NZ. We are going to show a 10 minute
tape of all the highlights of the final at the Pakistani Night at SUNY/Buf. 
I rememeber I saw one article
that had a detailed description of the celebration in different cities of
Pakistan. Mail me anything you have.

Thanks in advance




Naveed
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: jamal@z.eecs.umich.edu (Jamal Mubarak)
Subject: Re: 'Ham agai to garmia bazar dekhna'
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 12:28:36 GMT

In article <92097.04382432JMVQG@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU> Mahfooz Ahmed Jafry <32JMVQG@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU> writes:
>
>Salam Alaikum :  'Ham Aagai to garmie bazar dekhna'

Wa alaikum salaam,

>ugh e-mail, I need help from Brothers like Murad Mirza, Jamal Mubrak and Irfan
>Hyder that what I do in response ?  Eid is restricted to muslims only but ummno

Since you specifically ask my help, perhaps you could just say "Happy Eid" or
"Enjoy your Eid."  That way you are not specifically implying Allah's blessings.
But check with your sheikh.  He might still object....

Jamal
From: ss511583@longs.LANCE.ColoState.EDU (Sohban Shahid)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Pakistan, Karachi aur XYZ.......(synopsis).......
Date: 8 Apr 92 19:32:44 GMT
Reply-To: ss511583@longs.LANCE.ColoState.EDU (Sohban Shahid)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Engineering College, Colorado State University

>>>		Tum Gunnahgar Ho	   ..... by   Haaris Khaleeq
>>>
>>>
>>>	..............
>>>	..............
>>>
>>>	Tum nay chaha keh rungoN kay nusloN kay but
>>>	yeh illaqooN kay but, yeh qabeeloN lay but
>>>	muslekoN kay puraney nuzzer'yoN kay but
>>>	yeh rasoom o riwaj aur tareeqoN kay but
>>>	aur sub say baRRa but, yeh daulat ka but
>>>	tum nay chaha keh tum sarey but toRR do
>>>
>>>		tum nay chaha ghulat, tum nay socha ghulat
>>>		tum gunnah'gar ho
>>>
>>>	..............
>>>	..............
>>>

Indeed its well written but after reading your post this looks to me
as if you are trying to say some unspoken things.  May  be  I  am 
wrong in my judgement but after seeing Karachi in so much fire
everything looks flameable.

----------------------------------------------------
SOHBAN SHAHID                 e-mail ss511583@longs.lance.ColoState.Edu
Civil Engg. Dept .                     (303) 491 5844/8204 (work)
Colorado State University  (303) 224 0397  (home)
Ft. Collins, CO-80523
From: khan@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (LAHORI POOND)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: SCARY THOUGHT
Date: 12 Apr 92 20:36:51 GMT
Organization: Purdue University



       I just had a very scary thought.What would happen if all the people
 on SCP were locked in a room without any exits.This is a very scary thought     indded any comments??.



later



    Seven people took a ride
    Six bachelors and their bride
    seven people took a ride....
   



   lahori(LHL 111) Poond
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: blrj_ltd@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (MUSTT MALANG)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: OLYMPIC BAN
Keywords: NO..SORRY..IMPOSSIBLE...NO WAY...UNH UNH....NAHIIIINNNN!!!!
Date: 11 Apr 92 21:28:33 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester Computing Center

Well, this is quite a surprising twist of events.  Although every one
knew of the widespread(ing) drug abuse in Pakistan, I did not think
that athletes would turn to such drugs as anabolic steroids to boost 
their performance, especially after the infamous Ben Johnson incident
at the Seoul Olympics and the Greek(?) weight lifters who were also
banned and stripped of their medals at the World Championships a few 
years ago.

However, do what they will to Hussein, the accused abbuser, the Olympic
Committee should not punish the Pakistani national team or the nation 
of Pakistan by banning the team from the Barcelona Olympics.  It makes
no sense to me why they would do that.  Did they ban the entire Canadian
Olympic squad after Johnson's embarrassing exit from world athletics (last
I heard he lost to Carl Lewis in a face off) ?  Or even think of banning
the Canadian Athletics team after his departure ?   (Johnson might have
been the only Canadian Sprinter though so we can't be sure that they wouln't)
The point is that a team should not be punished for the actions of another...

The correct thing to do for the IOC would be to allow Pakistan to compete in 
the Barcelona Olympics, but ban Hussein for life (or another similar sentence)
from involvement in Olympic Hockey.  The same for the Hockey Council...Hussein
should be stripped of his Champions Trophy medal and made an example of...

I hope nobody thinks that I am against Pakistan excelling at the International
level of hockey or any other sport.  The fact is that for children all over 
Pakistan their only heroes are sports figures.  Imran, Javed and Wasim are the more common ones, but for those that follow hockey with as great (or greater) a 
passion as most of us follow cricket, such a sports figure is not worthy of
the adulation of millions of adoring youngsters.  They deserve a true hero,
one who treats his body as the gift of God and does his best for the team 
without bending the rules or hiding behind anybody else for his mistakes.

Here's hoping that Pakistan regain their hockey title in Barcelona...with
the respect of the rest of the world. 

MUSTT [ah...if only I could watch Hasan Sardar once again] MALANG
From: hyder@cs.utexas.edu (Syed Irfan Hyder)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: A sad news: And a wonderful logic!
Date: 14 Apr 1992 13:09:21 -0500
Organization: U Texas Dept of Computer Sciences, Austin TX
Distribution: usa,world
NNTP-Posting-Host: pageboy.cs.utexas.edu

In article <1992Apr14.131712.1105@ucbeh.san.uc.edu> minhaszt@ucbeh.san.uc.edu writes:
:I found this in SCP
:
:::From: towfiq@FTP.COM (Mark Towfiq)
:::Subject: PROMINENT IRANIAN BAHA'I EXECUTED
:::Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 13:25:14 GMT
:: Lines: 55
:: 
:: 
:::Washington, D.C.--Representatives of the American Baha'i community
:::today announced that a prominent Iranian Baha'i, Bahman Samandari, was
:::secretly executed in Tehran on March 18 and was buried two days later
:::in an unmarked grave in a Tehran cemetery.  Authorities refuse to
:::disclose the location of the gravesite.
:: 
:: If Bahman Samandari had not committed any CAPITAL offense, 
:: this  is  a shameful and condemnable act against humanity.
:: Human life is more important than IDEOLOGY, philosophy of life.
:: It must be respected at any cost.
:: 
:: Alas! who will convince the MULLAH?

Except, of course, the above wonderful, exquisite, rational,
logical and substantive reasoning! Any comments from those
who have taken philosophy and reasoning courses?
From: rc05@gte.com (Ramesh Chandak)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: ***** P.M.T ******* (part I)
Date: 9 Apr 92 22:52:02 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.pakistan
Organization: GTE Laboratories Incorporated, Waltham MA

Ms. F. Khurshid writes 
>                   P.M.T. (Pre-Marital Tension)
>                  ------------------------------
>  
> My first experience of P.M.T. came when I was 21. Throughout my studies my
> parents had resisted the idea of marriage for me thinking it unwise. However,
> after I failed my second year at college and when I was feeling at an all

are yeh kya ho raha hain ?

- Tiku Talsania
From: mausoof@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Have you driven a Floyd, lately
Date: 13 Apr 92 16:19:44 CDT
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

	Since there has been a call to arms for all Pink Floyd fans I guess I
have to join in. I am posting something that is relevant to the scp and the
current Floydian debate. I want to know if someone else has experienced this 
	In their second album, "saucer full of secrets", their is a song called
"Set the control for the heart of the sun". The organ being played in that song
appears similar to a number by Malka Pukhraj called "Abhi to me Jawan Ho". Any
comments ? This is not a joke, if you have both the songs please listen to
them. Unfortunately, I don't have the latter song and would be getting it this
summer from Pakistan. My question is when did the song from Malka Pukhraj came
out, I know that "A saucer full of secrets" came out in 1969.

Carefull with that axe Eugene
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

					Saqib Mausoof

Carefull with that axe Eugene,
From: hyder@cs.utexas.edu (Syed Irfan Hyder)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Analyzing ...: Yet another case of out of context conclusion!
Date: 9 Apr 1992 20:08:31 -0500
Organization: U Texas Dept of Computer Sciences, Austin TX
NNTP-Posting-Host: burr.cs.utexas.edu

In article <1992Apr9.195717.29192@ucunix.san.uc.edu> bhatnagr@ucunix.san.uc.edu (Raj Bhatnagar) writes:
>In article <ku926bINN6sp@pageboy.cs.utexas.edu> hyder@cs.utexas.edu (Syed Irfan Hyder) writes:
>
>>I think this is the right time to explain the way such problems
>>are approached in Islam:
                =========
		^^^^^^^^^
		
>>First Islamic proofs ("nuqli dallail") are sought.
>>	1: A given hypothesis is confirmed or refuted through Quran
>>	2: Further substantiations of the position are then
>>		obtained through Hadith, if (1) remains ambiguous.
>>Then scholors resort to using their own intelligence:
>>	3: To further substantiate the position obtained 
>>	   from (1) and (2), a scholor tries to use his own
>>	   reasoning and intellectual abilities to find
>>           confirmations.
>
>In the above, #1 and #2 as the basis of a proof are possible only for 
>those who believe in the Truth and absoluteness of the Quran and 
>the hadeeth. For the non-Muslims, #3 is the only argument - and you
>propose to keep devising a new #3 every time the old #3 becomes
>discrepent, obsolete or out of fashion. 
>

Dear Sir, before you quip in please try to understand the
context of such discussions. It is very clear in the first
part of the statement that I wrote that I am discussing
the strategy of how to approach such problems within Islam!
					      ======

No where did I say that we use the same strategy for proving
to non-Muslims!

Had you closely read Mr. Gopal's posting to which I was replying
above, you would not have made this mistake.

Mr. Gopal was conducting a thought experiment GIVEN that a 
certain premise about "hijab"  has been found to be valid
within Islam, THEN would a certain person be willing to 
accept it. That is if the whole extent of "hijab" is proven
in Quran and Hadith, would some one be willing to accept it
without argument or would one be looking for some more
arguments. #3 above refers to the arguments which may 
follow GIVEN that Quran and Hadith are accepted as
"first principles".

The case you are referring to pertains to non-muslims who
doesnot believe in Quran and Hadith and therefore the
whole methodology above is not applicable to them.

If you are really interested in the methodology of reasoning
used for non-Muslims or skeptics then you are referred to
another related train of discussion "bad arguments: Inadequacy
of "pure reason"". There was first a very thought provoking
article by Mr. Nadeem Husain (nadeem@deathstar.Stanford.EDU 
(Nadeem Hussain) Message-ID: <nadeem.702616599@deathstar>)
to which I replied later on the other day. I don't have
its id but will be close after Nadeem's article.



>You sure can do it, but then the issue becomes of justifiability of
>the proposition according to time and place, and not at all of the
>claimed universality and timelessness of the proposition.


Read the above references.