From: cbbrowne@csi.uottawa.ca (Christopher Browne)
Subject: Re: When do we stop being outsiders? (WAS Re: The Journal on ...)
Organization: CSI Dept., University of Ottawa
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 92 12:48:59 GMT

In article <SBO.92Apr10124351@gunther.vlsi.polymtl.ca> sbo@vlsi.polymtl.ca (Stephane Boucher) writes:
>In article <1992Apr9.221447.27285@watserv1.waterloo.edu> jkramer@sunwise.UWaterloo.ca (Viscous Pig Dog) writes:
>
>   In article <11408@std-2> audetf@Software.Mitel.COM (Francois Audet)
>   writes:
>
>   >In article (Craig Campbell) writes:
>
>   >>Is it possible, that English Canada is being used as a scapegoat for all
>   >>the woes in Quebec?  Nothing, including Canada is perfect.  
>   >
>   >What do you see on this net? Canada-bashing or Quebec-bashing? Who is
>   >accused of being racist, facist, of wanting to destroy the country?
>
>   I see both. 
>
>   And, saying that a bunch of Quebecois (correct spelling?) are trying to
>   destroy the country is not Quebec-bashing. A bunch of people in Quebec
>   want Quebec to leave Canada. If Quebec leaves Canada then the
>   nation of Canada will be destroyed. Pointing out this fact is not
>   Quebec bashing.
>
>Why use the term "destroy"? Why not use the therm "dismantle" (sp.?)?
                                                      ^ spelling ok!
>
>Yeah, ok, The country will be destroyed, All the provinces will be brought
>to their knees. It will be appocalliptic. Oh no! What kind of stupid people
>want to demolish such a greate nation, namely Canada? We must put those who
>oppose the GREAT Canadian Federation in jail.

You're reading too much into his posting.  He said that the nation of
Canada would be destroyed.  He didn't say that he was criticizing
Quebecois, or suggesting action (i.e. - Jailing people).

>Please! God, save us! Save the Queen and Canada! Save us against those
>nasty sepertist! 

It's actually not politically correct to say "God Save the Queen"
anymore, whether in Quebec OR in TROC.  That would mean being
patriotic, like the "evil Americans."

>Make this country Unilingual anglophones so that we won't get Funking
>French on our cereal Box. We will get back the jobs that where stolen from
>us by the Funcking Frogs.
>
>Let's not give 60 Millions to the province of Quebec. They don't deserve
>it. They must first sign a deal. We won't pay for them. After all, it's not
>their money. It's ours. Furthermore, we only get 800 Millions dispite the
>fact that we are less populous. What an outrage.
>
>Let's solve this once and for all. Let's send the army. Let's put those
>damn Frogs back where they belong.

Definitely turning into a stereotyping of the APEC member.
(Association Promoting English in Canada, or something close.)

1)  When did Quebec ask for $60 million?  What was it for?  Giving $60
million FOR A GOOD REASON is quite possible.

2)  Pay for WHAT for them?  WHAT is not their money?  WHAT is "our"
money?  When did Quebec get $800 million, for WHAT purpose?

If part of this is a response to my fiscally related posting, you're
definitely missed its point.

IF Quebec is to separate, and become a sovereign nation, then MANY
adjustments will have to be made.  It's not just simple enough to say
"Ok. Today Quebec is its own nation."  New laws, new governmental
agencies, probably a new currency (Quebec dollars, perhaps?) would all
have to be introduced.

None of these changes can come easily, quickly, or cheaply.  If Quebec
were a new, unpopulated land, then you could start fresh.  But it's
not.  

Canada and Quebec are intimately linked.  We share a currency.
We share a legal system (at least at the criminal level).  There are
MANY federal regulations that apply in Quebec, and agencies that
run them.  It is the CANADIAN Broadcasting Corporation that runs many
of the French TV stations in Quebec.  Moving such things to Quebec's
hands is not a simple matter.

I ask you:

How do you anticipate making the transition to sovereignty?
Comment est-ce que vous suggerez qu'on fait le transition au
souverent\'{e}?

THIS IS NOT A TRICK QUESTION!  I would really like to know the answer!
Ce n'est pas un question "trucant."  Je veux vraiment savoir la
reponse!

The discussions that I've seen mostly involve fights that say:

Englisher:  "Stupid Quebekers!  Why do they want to separate?"

Quebecois:  "Stupide anglophone!  Il me hait (hait = HATE?), et il ne
peut pas comprendre pourquoi on veut etre distinct!"

I think that separation is PROBABLY a bad idea, because I think it
will be difficult to make it work.  Things are pretty bad now, but I'm
not sure how sovereignty will make things work BETTER, considering the
costs of separation.

A "divorce" (which is in effect what Quebec seems to want) is a
terribly expensive thing.  Assets have to be divided to figure out where the kids go, and where everybody is going to live.

I'll ask the question again, in a slightly different way:

How do you propose that we divide up the "household" between Quebec
and "TROC" if there is a break-up?
-- 
Christopher Browne
cbbrowne@csi.uottawa.ca
University of Ottawa
Master of System Science Program