HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ufltai@memstvx1.memst.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Where To Test
Date: 11 Oct 92 17:57:25 GMT
Organization: Memphis State University


Hiya,
	If you have never posted to news before, and want to test your posting
capabilities, please post to the *.test groups.  It is just as good a test,
*AND* people will respond and tell you that your post reached their site.  I
just posted a test to alt.test and had four sites reply to me via email.  Plus
you get how your test post propagated (had a reply from Israel and South
Africa....!!!)
	Testing in *.test groups is highly recommended as sometimes you can
piss off people in the other groups and get some hatemail.  I did notice that
most people here seems to just "grin and bear it."
	Also, it is highly recommended that you browse around in news.answers. 
They maintain a lot of articles there pertaining to usage of news, and what you
should and should not do.
	It is also highly recommended to new readers that you stick around and
follow the group for a week or so before posting, to get a "feel" for the group
and to avoid asking that that has just been discussed (FAQ material? :)).
	I will probably post this article once every week (plus and minus a
couple of weeks as situation calls for) so please ignore future postings with
the same title, or set up a kill file.
	Ciao.

-Tai
From: smustopo@nyx.cs.du.edu (sofjan mustopoh)
Subject: Re: SINGAPORE LAWSE (sic)
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 92 00:33:14 GMT

In article <1992Oct7.112115.13387@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu> jbfink@miavx1.ac
.muohio.edu (Adder) writes:
>In article <1992Oct6.091609.175@news.Hawaii.Edu>, guiyu@spectra (Kui Yu 
hang) writes:
>> BEFORE Singapore can ATTAIN the stature of a modern and civilized coun
ry, we
>> have to TRAIN/DISCIPLINE ourselves by means of TOUGH laws. 
>> 
>
>I'm sorry.
>
>I want the freedom to think what I like and believe in whatever politica
 
>system I like without fear of being thrown in prison courtesy of the ISA

>
>I want the freedom to protest something which I think is wrong.
>
>I want to be treated like an adult, not like some stupid kid.
>
>-- adder
>
>Most of all...
>I want the freedom to drive across the Causeway with a quarter tank of g
s.



     But then developing country needs stabilty and need
  a stable goverments. gov will try hard to suppres
  the stupid some who has nothing to do and keep on grumbling
  about anything gov. say. 
     Take a look at Nicaragua. They try to have democracy.
  but no stable and strong gov. So every legislator keep on
  arguing anything the other and others(rember democracy) side
  said . result are Zip,nada,null in growth.

    I would like a gov. that is strong enought but yet not 
  oppressive. i might be dreaming but hey USA has its democracy
  figure out so loooooong ago yet they have  Commie hunts at
 the 50's by Mc Carthy . Civil right's at 60's  and so on and on
  While ASEAN countries with the exception of Thailand only
  have their independence in last 50 years. what can we expect !!

     And i really Inflame by Dwight Joe the under dog comparing
  his glorious western democracy without using time and education
  perspective. !!!!!


  Muskie 

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Othman Ahmad)
Subject: Re: Bosnia (was Re: Muslims converting to other religions in England!)
Organization: Nanyang Technological University - Singapore
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 09:56:26 GMT

Budi Rahardjo (rahardj@ccu.umanitoba.ca) wrote:
: rswiftrw@cc.curtin.edu.au (Rod Swift) writes:
: 
: >eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Othman Ahmad) writes:
: 
: >> If people like you were to be given the absolute power, I'm sure you have
: >> no restrain to use it to the extent of "ethnic cleansing".
: 
: >May I ask whether you believe it right for Muslims to be "ethnically cleansing"
: >Bosnia-Hercegovina at this present time.  Do you support the shipment of
: >guns to Muslim peoples in that civil war?
: 
: I am not sure whether sending guns is good or bad. But for sure sending
: health & medical supplies is good, don't you agree ?. Remember hundred 
: thousands of Muslims & Croats are freezing to death this winter, just 
: because there's no shelter and here we're just talking ...
: [What if your parents/sister/brother is one of them. Would you just stand
: there ? What would you do ?]
: 
: I saw a news last week: a mother has to leave the country (I think
: to Germany) and the son is staying in Sarajevo. The mom was crying on the bus
: because she may not see her son again [forever]. The son shook his and 
: told his mother not to cry... 
: 
If the serbs can be driven out, it only takes one day to deliver all supplies.

--
Othman bin Ahmad, School of EEE,
Nanyang Technological University, Singapore 2263.
Internet Email: eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg
Bitnet Email: eoahmad@ntuvax.bitnet

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: ygoh@fraser.sfu.ca (Kelvin Goh)
Subject: Re: St Joe, Kuch
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 17:40:05 GMT

fxb6@po.CWRU.Edu (Fabian Bigar) writes:


>Anyone from St Joe, Kuching ? or From Kolej TDT Bujang Miri ?
>-- 
>Ora Et Labora

I'm from St. Joe. There are two other netters from there that I know of.
From: gt6737b@prism.gatech.EDU (E.A. JAAFAR)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: Muslims converting to other religions in England!
Date: 8 Oct 92 15:59:21 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

In article <BvsHxn.63K@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>, emfar@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Anak Jati Terengganu) writes:
> 
> 	By the way...  I really like know more story about Muslims
> 	converting away in England.. Anyone has something to share ?
> 
> 
Firstly let me make it clear that I think this story really an old story
over the summer where the President of Kelab UMNO United Kingdom & Eire
made a stunning unfounded revealation that 41 malay women renounce their
religion(islam) upon marriage.  For those who was here for the summer
might have came across my posting on this issue.       

Under pressure from various groups in M'sia and esp from the Ministry of
Education itself, the Kelab, made an investigation on the matter
(which is an irony since its president flippantly speaking with such
authority and confidence said he knows those people), and later found out
that the Kelab doesnt have any evidence to support its alligations but
on one(1 not 41) case.  I believe that the Kelab was reacting hastily,
causing unnecessary alarm. Could it be a publicity stunt?  God knows!

FYI, under the M'sian constitution, there is a strong tie between malays
and islam.  Contrary to what a m'sian guy in s'pore 'thinks', under 
article 160A (if I'm not mistaken) of the m'sian constitution, one can
find that a malay must be a moslem in order to claim his/her rights.  This
also was the basis of my last posting on this issue.                     
(whether or not this is fair is not within the scope of this article and
I refuse to be dragged into such area of discussion.)

However, let me point out one thing that I've failed completely to realize
when I posted, "malay & islam: an everlasting match?" over the summer.
My friends here quickly to inform me the fact that Islam is a relationship
between a person and its creator.  To be a moslem is really easy.  One
just have to pronounce the 'syahadah' and that's it.  But whether that
person really is a moslem is non of our business.  
Therefore, no other moslem may accuse other moslem of being 'murtad' unless
that person involved in the accusation admit it publicly.

That's all folks.  Y'all have a great day.  btw, as usual, your hate-mail
should be addressed to me directly.                  


-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
| E.A. JAAFAR, North Ave. Trade School, Atlanta.  GO BRAVES NL WEST CHAMPS.|
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: looi@ssf-corp.dhl.com (Wan Looi)
Subject: Re: Mat Setia and satellite parabolic antenna 
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 23:10:26 GMT
Organization: DHL Worldwide Express, Redwood City, Calif., USA

In article <1992Oct6.200551.26684@serval.net.wsu.edu> ktan@luke.eecs.wsu.edu (Kaiswee Tan - EECS (cpts330)) writes:
>
>
> According to the NST, Information Minister of Malaysia Datuk Mohamad Rahmat
> stunned reporters last week when he admitted that he owned a satellite
> parabolic antenna.
>
> [ text deleted ]
>

Guess what the latest is...Rahmat is going to prosecute some RTM reporters
for "misinforming" Malaysian public about the recent riots in East Timor.
RTM 1's showing of riots from foreign source had drawn protest from 
Indonesian government. Rahmat, who was educated in Indonesia made an
apology and assured his Indonesian counterpart that he would prosecute
those "irresponsible" reporters.

-looi

-- 
Systems Arch., DHL Airways, Inc., 333 Twin Dolphin Dr, Redwood City, CA 94065
INET: looi@sysarch.attmail.com  UUNET: uunet!dhl!looi
VOICE: (415) 802-4584	FAX: (415) 593-1689

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: chai@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Ian Chai)
Subject: Re: SINGAPORE LAWSE
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 23:15:18 GMT

Amos.Omondi@comp.vuw.ac.nz (Amos Omondi) writes:
>My opinion of Singapore's supposedly draconian laws is that they appear 
>to work quite well and probably account for the country's rapid progress 
>in the last 3 decades.  I think cleanliness, low crime, efficiency in 
>services, etc. seem to be more than an adequate return for such things as not 
>having the right to chew gum.  

You have the right to chew gum... you just don't have the right to
*buy* gum 8-)

But, yes, I agree... I'd rather not chew gum and not be mugged than
chew gum and be mugged 8-)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: af620@yfn.ysu.edu (Andrew Tan)
Subject: Re: Muslims converting to other religions in England!
Reply-To: af620@yfn.ysu.edu (Andrew Tan)
Organization: St. Elizabeth Hospital, Youngstown, OH
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 21:43:34 GMT


In a previous article, eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Othman Ahmad) says:

>This is another example of people who do not know how to think like the other
>side. People make mistakes but intelligent people know how to filter mistakes
>from the context of the sentence. Sometimes I deliberately not remove any
>mistake just to test the reader.  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Waahhhh...I didn't know reading netnews also got test one ah?

  
>	Is this the standard of the culture of the commenter? Isn't it 
>chinese?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Ahhhh...I see you have not let me down, Pak Othman. Good thing I
brought enuf money to buy "jagung", besides my popcorn and "rojak" while
I view the forthcoming flame-war, ya?  Syabas! Anybody else join me? :)


YA'LL take care...
ATAN


>
>--
>Othman bin Ahmad, School of EEE,
>Nanyang Technological University, Singapore 2263.
>Internet Email: eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg
>Bitnet Email: eoahmad@ntuvax.bitnet
>
>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: ktan@yoda.eecs.wsu.edu (Kaiswee Tan - EECS (cpts330))
Subject: Re: Mat Setia and satellite parabolic antenna and the 5% dude
Organization: Washington State University!
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 92 09:40:06 GMT

In article <1992Oct7.060951.29023@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg> eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Othman Ahmad) writes:
>songbac@coos.dartmouth.edu (Durian) writes:
>: 
>: 	It's (not?) fun to see our "Bersih, Cekap dan Amanah" Yang 
>: Berhormat caught doing what he prevents others from doing.  It will 
>: be worse still if they all act that our 5% minister who said 
>: "The prime minister did not ask me to resign blah blah blah" or 
>: something like that.  They are supposed to serve the country, not
>: the PM or themselves.
>
>Another potential dictator. Presumed guilty even before any trial.
>With so many dictators around, it is indeed surprising that we have
>a democracy at all.
>
>: 
>: 	Let's hope whoever is responsible will resign but I won't put
>: too much hope in that.  :-> 
>: 
>
>Samy Velu did not realise that rahmat has a permit for a satellite dish.
>There was a photo of the permit dated a long time ago, signed by Leo Moggie,
>the previous minister for Post and Communications.
>	As an information minister, it is very important for him to monitor
>those views. He will be incapacitated if he does not have any.
>: 
>
>--
>Othman bin Ahmad, School of EEE,
>Nanyang Technological University, Singapore 2263.
>Internet Email: eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg
>Bitnet Email: eoahmad@ntuvax.bitnet
>

>-According to the news released by Bernama two weeks ago, our Yang Berhomat
 was quoted as having said that  O N L Y   The King, His Atas(Prime Minister),
 Malay rulers and foreign missions were allowed to have satellite parabolic
 antenna and nobody else should have it. He was not saying anything 'bout the
 antenna at his home. In fact he did not need one and shouldn't have one at home since he's the Information Minister, RTM can provide him heaps of informations
 he needs to know.(May be he like to be alone when watching something that...
 not very healthy for Malaysia public...I guess???)
 Obviously, this is a double-standard(as a Malaysian, I'm used to it already...
 no worries). How could Yang Berhomat tell the folks not to do it and he did 
 otherwise?
 Encik Ahmad, do you really think that Yang Berhomat is doin' the right thing?
 if he can have  one, I don't see why samy 5%, Vijandran, Kelantan's MB Nik
 Aziz, even Lim Kit Sian and etc should not have one too.
 May be the folks with rational thinking can own one too.
 


 Kai
 Anak Kelantan, Buatan Malaysia.
From: emfar@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Anak Jati Terengganu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: Muslims converting to other religions in England!
Date: 8 Oct 92 06:27:22 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center


	It seems that the discussion under this subject is away from what
	it says.  I suggest that those who still discussing on 
	Malays  being Muslims  to discuss it on different title..

	By the way...  I really like know more story about Muslims
	converting away in England.. Anyone has something to share ?


=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
= Mohamad Fadzrul Engku               | E-mail: emfar@mentor.cc.purdue.edu    =
= 422-8 South Grant,                  |       : engkumx@mentor.cc.purdue.edu  =
= West Lafayette, IN 47906            | Voice : (317)743 3029                 =
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: siong@fraser.sfu.ca (Siong Heng Chan)
Subject: Andersonians!!!! (Ipoh, Perak.)
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 03:12:57 GMT

Hi there!!!!
            Actually, I'm an old boy from Anderson Secondary School Ipoh.
I was just plain curious to see how many Andersonians out there in the
world.  If you are one, please either write to me or post up an article here!
Just to see if I can maybe plan an old boys association overseas...  :^)

Graduated from Anderson myself in 1990 after SPM.  While I was there, I was
active in the debating club, school band and the school prefect board.  Also
a member in the infamous Anderson LEO club!

email add : siong@sfu.ca

So if you guys are out there, write in or to me!!!!!

Siong Heng, Chan.
From: 9122011j@lux.latrobe.edu.au (Henry Choo )
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: La Trobe University Reply
Date: 16 Oct 92 09:08:38 GMT
Organization: La Trobe University


	Hi ya, I'm looking for Victor (vcs_teo@csd.brispoly.uk),
You were looking for a response from La trobe, so here it is. Anyway I
have tried to mail you but it seems my machine has difficulty locating
yours. So why don't you mail me first, and see if it works, if all
things fail, then I can't help you and your friend very much, except 
pass him/her a message, through this newsgroup.

				Henry Choo.

E-mail-
	9122011j@lux.latrobe.edu.au
From: lteo_ss@troi.cc.rochester.edu (Leslie Teo)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: Article by Sumiko Tan of The Straits Times
Date: 16 Oct 92 19:09:54 GMT
Distribution: soc.culture.asean
Organization: University of Rochester (Rochester, NY)

In article <1992Oct15.200757.25438@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> mhmann@nyx.cs.du.edu (Me Mann) writes:
>In article <15OCT199213500067@sscvx1.ssc.gov> godfrey@sscvx1.ssc.gov (LAURENCE GODFREY) writes:
>>In article <Bw64pw.AM4@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>, ysoh@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (CaRa SoH)    writes...
>>> 
>>can't think of one just at the moment.
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>I don't mean to call you parochial, but you are not following
>the economic development  of the world too much. It is a model to
>the Chinese of Mainland China, Vietnam and even some of the new
>Countries of the disbanded USSR and quite a few more in Asia and
>Africa.  However that does not mean that it has nothing to learn
>from others but then those numbers qouted are just statistics
>from a survey. How accurate are they?
>
>
>-Mann

There is certainly a lot to be learned from Singapore's success. Indeed,
the 'secrets' of S'pore's success aren't exclusive to S'pore alone. Some
of 'them' have been around since the turn of the century. At the same
time, Singapore is in many ways unique and without many of the problems
(or advantages) of large nations. Furthermore, Singapore's political
system allowed the government to carry out policies which probably can't
be repeated anywhere else. 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: smustopo@nyx.cs.du.edu (sofjan mustopoh)
Subject: Re: Indonesian Cultural Show
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Keywords: Indonesia Culture
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 92 04:55:07 GMT


   God i'm Blue with envy last time we plan for Indonesian
 Culture night ,It was a disaster .though we have 150 + 
 Indonesian here in Lexingto Kentucky . We can't come out
 with a concrete plan. Several Individual want a Super
 Colosal Night, Even with Kecak . shame the whole plan
 went to drain. but ATleast part of us come with
 Indonesian X'mas Night. 
   
    If Anybody can help send me  your procedure of
 planing and executing the Indonesian night. I'll
 be very gratefull. 

 BTW Our School also has the UK initial
 UK : Univ. of Kentucky  "Go Wildcat"

  Muskie

Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish
From: dobo@cs.UAlberta.CA (W. Dobosiewicz)
Subject: Re: On Polish Anti-semitism
Organization: University of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 04:36:35 GMT

avr@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (adam.v.reed) writes:

>In article <dobo.718777510@swalwell>, dobo@cs.UAlberta.CA (W. Dobosiewicz) writes:
>< 
>< Could you give ONE example of "Aryan legislation of Nazi Germany" (or
>< anything even remotely similar) that was adopted by the parliament of Poland
>< in the 30s?

>One instance was the delegation of professional licensing of
>engineers to a professional association that, with several
>others, had adopted the Nazi "Aryan Paragraph" as a
>qualification for membership. Another was a copy of Nazi
>legislation against Kosher slaughtering of cattle. I've
>already posted references on both.

I did not see those postings, probably by mistake. Nevertheless:
First, what did that "professional licensing" legislation say? According
to older people I asked, the only qualification for calling oneself
an engineer in prewar Poland (and still is nowadays) was having a
degree in engineering.  No licensing from any other body was
needed. Hence, delegating such licensing to an association of engineers
(which one, I would like to know) is a red herring.

Second, Kosher slaughtering of cattle was perfectly legal in Poland,
provided it was done by a licensed ritual butcher. I heard many times that
obtaining such a license was sometimes difficult because of obstacles laid
by bureaucrats, one assumes for antisemitic reasons. But where was the
"Nazi legislation" against ritual slaughtering? (I must confess my
ignorance with respect to the latter: what exactly was the Nazi
official attitude towards ritual slaughtering?)


>< I have to accuse you publicly of spreading lies. As you wanted examples of
>< anti-Polish false statements being promoted publicly by American Jews, you
>< have a good example now: one produced by yourself.
>< (Unless, of course, you give the example, in which case I will promptly
>< withdraw my accusations with appropriate apologies.)

>Do that.

You have to try a bit harder. But I will not break my promise.
But Roger said "legislation" and nothing else will do.

(By the way, you promised details on those Hebrew texts in 13th century
Poland and earlier. We are still waiting for them.)

>					Adam_V_Reed@ATT.com

W. Dobosiewicz
From: sethr@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (seth.r.rosenthal)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish
Subject: Re: Jews under Soviets in Eastern Poland, 1939-1941
Keywords: Persecution by Soviet secret police, and facts vs. myths.
Date: 8 Oct 92 20:01:09 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories

In article <1992Oct8.174812.21244@cbnewsj.cb.att.com>, avr@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (adam.v.reed) writes:
> Krzysztof Kniaz writes:
> > ....
> >- What would happen if the situation were reversed, i.e. the
> >  Poles were the persecuted minority, and the Jews were largely
> >  tolerated? Would the Jews behave differently? This is not quite an 
> >  abstract question as a similar situation developed in the eastern part
> >  of Poland after it was taken over by the Soviet Union in 1939.  The 
> >  experiences were not encouraging.
> > ....
> 
> I'm affraid that the above comment about the relative situation of
> Jews and non-Jewish Poles under the Soviet occupation may be
> based on yet another counterfactual myth. So far, the most
> comprehensive available study of that occupation is
> 
> Jan T. Gross: Revolution from Abroad: The Soviet Conquest of
> Poland's Western Ukraine and Western Byelorussia. Princeton:
> Princeton University Press, 1988; ISBN 0-691-09433-0.
> 
> I also recommend the same author's
> 
> Gross, Jan Tomasz, and Irena Grudzinska-Gross: W czterdziestym
> nas matko na Sybir zeslali. London: Aneks, 1983.
> 
> In a footnote to page xx in his preface to RfA, Gross cites a
> 1944 memorandum of the Polish Foreign Ministry in London,
> compiled from personal files at the Polish Red Cross in Teheran,
> giving a statistical breakdown of Polish citizens deported by
> the Soviet secret police to the Siberian Gulag, where most of
> them died. Of the deportees, 52% were non-Jewish Poles; 30% were
> Jews. At the time, Jews accounted for about 11% of the population
> of eastern Poland; non-Jewish Poles, about 41%.  I.e., a Jew
> stood two to three times the non-Jewish Pole's chance of being
> arrested by the secret police and sent to death in the Gulag.
> 

The Soviets had a twisted logic on this one, I'm sure.  I have spoken to
a number of recent emigre's from Russia.  They all say
that a Soviet-Jewish POW returning to the Soviet Union was
highly likely to be shot unilaterally, since to survive under
German occupation they had to have collaborated with the Nazis
(or so the Soviet theory went).

Adam, do you have a good statistic on how many Polish Jews died
in Stalin's labor camps?

		Seth Rosenthal

Disclaimer: All opinions are my own, not my employers'.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish