HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: coren@osf.org (Robert Coren)
Subject: Re: Siting Cons
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 21:50:35 GMT

In article <1992Apr6.201550.15144@macc.wisc.edu>, anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
> So (how much in contrast to you would be more for you to
> say), when I think of a motss.con, what the thing presents
> to me is the idea of meeting the people whose postings I've
> read (and loved or hated) for so long, of having a
> conversation over lunch or a cup of coffee, of going to a
> new bookstore, and (to be sure) catching a few new vistas
> along the way.
> ...
> My guess is that some of this makes me, rather than you,
> more the oddball...

This is odd? Although I've only been to one motss.con, this strikes me
as being the whole *point* of said events -- so we can meet and mingle
with the people who produce all these dancing phosphors.

Of course, some say that *I'm* odd...

Also, I don't really know what this conversation is supposed to be
about, since I've been away for two weeks (and decided that the only
possible way to deal with 2000+ unread articles in soc.motss was to
blow them all away). So I'd like to welcome you all back into my life.
	Robert
From: stevenso@Apple.COM (David Stevenson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Heinlein and sexism (Was Asimov and sexism)
Date: 8 Apr 92 19:38:02 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik) lists:
>
>As for the household word, I'm no sf maven.  Mixer?  Blender?
>Chopper?  Spoon?  Lamp?  Staircase?
>
Would these be Tom Mixer, Blender Starr, Dennis Chopper, Spoon River,
Charles Lamp and Alister Staircase, perchance?
From: IO81409@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (Ailsa N.T. Murphy)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Heinlein and sexism (Was Asimov and sexism)
Date: 6 Apr 92 04:15:43 GMT
Article-I.D.: MAINE.92097.001543IO81409
 <1992Apr4.013122.12984@u.washington.edu> <1992Apr4.180210.28424@cs.ubc.ca>
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Maine System

out gay SF/fantasy writers:

1) samuel delany
2) gael baudino (one of my favorites)
3) marion zimmer bradley

who else?  i'm curious...

                                    -ailsa
From: aberson@enh.nist.gov
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: RE: Auto-Fellatio (Re: Heterosexual Exploitation of Homosexuality?)
Date: 15 Apr 92 15:13:46 GMT
Organization: NIST

In a previous article, twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) wrote:
>On the other hand, I've heard that it is a physical impossibility for
>women (I tend to distrust such absolutes, though) but that one in five
>men are capable of giving it to themselves.

From a discussion I had with a number of friends years ago in college, the
1 in 5 is about right, but amongst us all, only the Jewish men could do
it while the non-Jews couldn't.  Coincidence?

                                                                        __
    Sim David Aberson   Ft. Lauderdale, FL   aberson%3338.span@sdsc.edu \/
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com (Jake Coughlin)
Subject: Re: Pride Parades
Originator: jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 92 14:37:52 GMT
Organization: IBM T. J. Watson Research

glp@fig.citib.com (Greg Parkinson):
> My first couple of pride parades were in San Francisco; I thought
> *that* parade was large.  Then I went to my first NY parade - 
> and was awed.  Not that there aren't many reasons to prefer
> other parades in other places - but to quote JoJo, quantity has
> a quality all its own.

can someone give me the dates of the NYC Pride March?  you can rip
up my queer card as long as you issue me a new one at NYC Pride.
on second thought, RIP UP MY QUEER CARD -- then i can be a closetted
virgin again, ripe for picking...
-- 
Jason Coughlin ( jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com )
Queer Without A Cause!
"I find myself suddenly in the world, and I recognize that I have one
right alone: that of demanding human behavior of the other." -- Fanon
From: onr@netcom.com (D. Owen Rowley)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Goin' to Amsterdam
Date: 17 Apr 92 04:48:10 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <exotica.703447994@milton> exotica@milton.u.washington.edu (Tsilke Pearlman) writes:
>onr@netcom.com (D. Owen Rowley) writes:
>>Mac Donalds and Burger king

>No, no, NO.
>The Blauwe Hollander (whats the male prep. in Dutch?).
>Cheap dutch food and lot's of it. Huge plates of brown beans with apples
>and bacon, turreens of split pea soup to bathe in, giant mounds of
>ribs, and humongous sausages...This is the place to go, and only a block
>>or two from the McD's on Leidsestraat.

Perhaps it was the two weeks in London prior to out Amsterdamn adventure,
but every place I ate in Amsterdamn ( besides Micky Dees and Burger Shri)
gave me gastric distress. 
At least I lost weight :-)

>>>	-fine instant sexual gratification.
>>The basement of the Argos.
>>The upstairs at the Web
>     
>Yup, and yup, according to our male traveling companion, who started at

Did you think I didn't from whence I spoke :-} ( smirk)

>the Argos, found a Top to take him to the C'ring and the Web and ended
>up in a private fuck pad romping on the leather bedspread.

I prefered to start at the web, with occasional forays to the Cuckoos nest
( I used to own a bar in Providence by the same name)
And found the clump of Leather bars on Woermerstraat more accomodating
for those extra late hours.
They have a nice sling at the Argos in case you get sleepy :-)

>I, of course, only got glimpses of suchlike...

As I understand it Women are not allowed in any of these bars.
A policy I disagree with when its leather women being excluded, but agree
with when its a doe eyed tourist clinging for life to her date.
I figure its the same operative principle as that behind women only
workout centers who don't want gawkers.

LUX .. owen

-- 
D. Owen Rowley .. Note this acct is not my primary USENET access
mail gets to me quicker if you send it to owen@autodesk.com

*No matter where you go, there you are.*
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Those Big Northern People (was Re: outing the stars)
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 92 08:34:14 GMT


In article <kus9upINN9je@mizar.usc.edu>
adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:

>No thanks, but I *could* stand a little more of that aquavit.

Unless one is a recovered alcoholic, the first-time visitor
to my humble abode is virtually required to gulp down an
ice-cold shot of good Aquavit.  Most people seem to be having
it for the first time in their lives.  I hardly ever drink,
period, and even less often straight spirits, but there are
certain rituals to be observed.

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
From: idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Michael Nyman, Drowning by Numbers
Date: 8 Apr 92 17:41:59 GMT
Organization: Eris's Restaurant

In article <CARLTON.92Apr7202833@husc8.harvard.edu> carlton@husc8.harvard.edu (david carlton) writes:
[Drowning by Numbers]
>I'm not sure which part I liked best.  The game with the sheep and the
>teacups was a riot, I thought.  Or the time when they were driving
>along the road and ran into a pair of dead cows with numbers painted
>upon their rumps and red paint marking the location.  Hangman's
>cricket was funny, too, though on too large a scale to be the gem that
>some of the other games were.

But wouldn't you love to know the complete rules for Hangman's Cricket?
One of these days I'll sit down with a video and try to reconstruct as
much of it as possible.  Then all I need is enough people to play...

[Nyman's music]
>I can't say that I like him so much.  I liked his music okay the first
>time I saw one of the movies, but it started to get a bit much even
>then and after that it really started to pale.  I think it fits the
>movies fairly well, but I do wish that it didn't all sound so
>incredibly similar.

I know what you mean, but... it doesn't: not all of it, at least.  Yes,
he continually quotes from himself (there are, for example, remarkable
thematic resemblances between one of the String Quartets and Out Of The
Ruins, and between La Traverse'e De Paris and Prospero's Books), but if
you'd care to hear some Nyman that is quite unNymanesque, try 1-100 (long
(20 minutes) increasingly slow and majestic downward chromatic chordal
traversal of the piano keboard); the String Quartets (really quite
excellent); or the Songbook.  Ute Lemper is an angel.  Still, I guess
I'd like to hear a collaboration between Nyman and Diamanda Galas :)

Still, for absolute spinewrenching gutgrabbing heartbursting magic, my
vote has to go on Zoo Caprices (Alexander Balanescu playing solo violin
arrangements of most of the pieces from A Zed And Two Noughts); tough,
gritty, uncompromising, and utterly virtuosic.  Really.


				Kay
-- 
6'2", dark short hair, blue eyes, bisexual and horny as ....
Kay Dekker, Dept of Industrial Design, Coventry Poly, Coventry UK
37 Old Winnings Road, Keresley Village, Coventry   |B0 f t+ g++ k++! s+ e r p!
Phone: +44 203 838668 (work) +44 203 337865 (home) |Deflowerer-of-innocents
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mike@gordian.com (Michael Thomas)
Subject: Re: Outed at my high school (anonymous post)
Reply-To: mike@gordian.com (Michael Thomas)
Organization: Gordian; Costa Mesa, CA
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 21:39:35 GMT

In article <1992Apr14.194125.20152@watson.ibm.com>, jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com (Jake Coughlin) writes:
|> frankly, i don't see a practical solution to this poor guy's situation
|> so i wouldn't even worry about it right now.  i think he's far too
|> young to be standing tall and making a statement, especially given that
|> his parents are not supportive.  rather, what's more important is the
|> young man himself, and how he's going to cope within this situation.
|> once he's nolonger dependent on his family and community, he can come
|> back and make whatever stand needs to be made against these ignorant
|> fools.

   I don't disagree that this guy is screwed, and is not going to have
any easy way out but...
   When I was in high school I had a civics teacher who, though I normally
disagreed with him (not in a combative way) I could get along with him
in a civil matter. In fact he invited me to his house to meet some 
congress critter who was running at the time, and we would talk often
after school. This teacher knew me pretty well.
   One day, sitting in class (bored as I recall) he tossed me out of the
class completely out of the blue in front of the entire class. No provocation, 
nothing. He claimed (a day or so later, he would not talk to me after class)
that I made an obscene gesture to him. In fact I had not the foggiest idea
what he was talking to me about; I had never even seen the gesture he claims
I made. This, of course, is one semester before graduation and I  would
have been completely screwed had my ejection been permanent. 
   I was furious as well as scared. The more I thought about it, the less
that I could believe that it was an honest error. But I needed to graduate
and pragmatism bulldozed principle. I have never quite forgiven myself
for buckling under to that reprehensible bastard. If I had it to do over
I would have raised a stink beyond belief.
   The moral of the story is: even at 17 these kinds of things can stick
with you for the rest of your life. You only have one chance to set them
right, and that is now. At 17 you do have some recourse of using your wits
to expose the petty bastards for what they are: cowards. The odds are not
particularily in your favor, but the self esteem, which is what they are
trying to crush, will be the one thing you gain (not a bad consolation prize).
If you cannot do it, so be it; but at least learn from the experience such 
that you will be in a better position to defend yourself from the bastards 
of the world in the future.
   Most of all, Do not give them the benifit of the doubt, they are WRONG!
Do not accept unearned guilt! 
-- 


		Michael Thomas	(mike@gordian.com)
	"I don't think Bambi Eyes will get you that flame thrower..."  
		-- Hobbes to Calvin
		USnail: 20361 Irvine Ave Santa Ana Heights, Ca,	92707-5637
		PaBell: (714) 850-0205 (714) 850-0533 (fax)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore)
Subject: Re: concert review
Reply-To: shore@tc.cornell.edu
Organization: Cornell Theory Center
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 22:08:49 GMT

In article <1992Apr16.212524.23313@csrd.uiuc.edu>, hsu@sp24.csrd.uiuc.edu (William Tsun-Yuk Hsu) writes:
> I'm not sure what distinctions you're trying to make here. And which
> of her musical decisions is she implementing with "limited success"?

I can't tell if she's trying a bunch of stuff, thinking
that some of is neat, and recording it (the Kitchen Sink
approach), or making intellectual decisions about the
music only to have them not work out particularly well
when implemented (the I Should Have Been A Musicologist
approach).  At any rate, I've only heard her on the radio
and seen her on film but I'm assuming that what I heard
was chosen as representative of the best of her work.

For me, it's less a question of accessibility (let's face 
it, there are people in new music who are far, far less 
accessible) than it is of distrust of fashion.  This is
putting it very badly and I apologize for any lack of
clarity on my part, but I think that there's too great a
disparity between what I know intellectually about her and
her music and the evidence of my ears.  Maybe I'll be able
to describe it better after I've thought about it awhile
(maybe not) - watch this space.
-- 
       Melinda Shore - Cornell Theory Center - shore@tc.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Responding to Bigots
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 92 15:26:37 GMT


In article <1992Apr9.155733.4172@ifi.unizh.ch>
kiser@ifi.unizh.ch (Markus Kiser) writes:

(responding to Markus's earlier posting)

>>And this last point of yours
>>reminds me of another: one result of the repeated harrangues
>>of the asterisked jerks (yet another has just reappeared) is
>>that the stupidity and obvious bigotry of their remarks
>>could well backfire, in effect waking up people who
>>themselves haven't thought much yet about the discrimination
>>we are so familiar with.

>The two sides of the medal, of course.

Several people have mentioned general strategies for dealing
with the jerks who seem drawn to us like bees to honey (in
spite of their vigorous loathing -- and that tells you
something).  I think the frankly sexual come-on is a pretty
good one, as is being very campy toward them.  We should
probably all develop a repertory of other tactics.

>What restricts your argument a bit is that soc.motss is
>still likelier to be a place where gay people find good
>arguments than a place where bigots get inspiration for
>their bigotry.

I'm not sure I get your point here; maybe "restricts" wasn't
the word you wanted?  Seems more like "bolsters" or
"additionally supports" would fit better.

Maybe it was to say that the role of informing our
sympathizers or the merely curious would be secondary to the
role of arming our own with good arguments.  In that case,
my guess is you'd be right.

I would guess that most of these jerks appear in our midst
because they're so ego-weak in the larger world they feel
compelled to trot over here and bait the fags, lezzies, and
bisekshals.  Some probably come because what they really
crave is the humiliation, which after all they deserve.  For
others, this clearly credits them with something too nearly
approaching sense; there's a lot of brown-shirt mentality
loose in the world, really antisocial people.

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
From: huxtable@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (Kathryn Huxtable)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Cornell Protests Military Ban
Date: 8 Apr 92 16:25:21 CDT
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

Melinda Shore writes:
[about Cornell asking the DoD to not discriminate on basis of
sexual orientation]
> Those of you who are also at universities where there are
> active ROTC programs and on-campus military recruitment may
> want to ask your school to do the same.  I think it's a great
> idea.

In article <1992Apr7.195035.12349@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu>,
    golds_ss@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Stuart S Goldstone) writes:
[Johns Hopkins Student Council votes to do something similar]
> From what I've heard, the administration agreed to give the Department of
> Defense five years to change their policy or ROTC will be phased out.
[...]
> 	(Hopkins relies heavily on the government for funding for such
> projects as the Applied Physics Laboratory; the government is also a major
> contractor for Hopkins projects.  This is why many believe that the Hopkins
> administration will never agree to do something which might upset the
> government.)

Most colleges these days rely heavily on federal funding.
KU along with many other state and land grant colleges has
also asked the DoD to cease discriminating in its ROTC
programs on the basis of sexual orientation.  We have not
gotten satisfactory response from the DoD.

One problem many universities have is that they are not
their own masters.  We've been given to understand that if
we push this too hard we'll get punished by the state board
of regents or by the legislature.  My understanding is that
other universities have fared similarly.

Jess, didn't Madison's faculty vote last year to abolish
ROTC since it violated the school's non-discrimination
policy only to have it overturned by someone in the
administration?

I think pushing this is a great idea but it'll take a lot of
careful pushing to actually change anything or get ROTC off
of any significant number of campuses.

-- 
Kathryn Huxtable              \   "Women who laugh too much, and the women
huxtable@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu   /\   who love them." --- Jamie Anderson
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: chrism@hpic001.mentorg.com (Chris McCabe)
Subject: Re: The rights of minors (was Re: Outed at my high school)
Originator: chrism@hpic001
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 17:03:48 GMT
Organization: Mentor Graphics 
Keywords: 
Followup-To: 


In article <1992Apr16.141435.9067@Princeton.EDU>, sbgreene@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Steven Greene) writes:
|> While I agree that a legal challange would be very difficult (but
|> not impossible) without the support of the student's parents, it
|> is very disempowering to tell the student he has no choice but to
|> put up with terroristic behavior.

  I agree.
  One might be surprised at how quickly the school administration will act to
fix a wrong action made by the school.  I think most students feel they are
powerless since teachers and school administration often have the attitude
"just do what I say".  I have always believed "Question Authority!", and when
I was in high school, I often found myself in heated arguments with the school
administration about school policy or actions by teachers.  In ALL cases that
I can remember, the school agreed with me and took action.  The school knows
your rights, and if you make them aware that you know your rights have been
violated and might do something about it, they get really nervous.  A legal
challenge is often not required at all, just the threat of one.  It may not
even be a matter of rights, but of reasonable policies.  Talk to them.  When
they realize you are serious, they will listen.  Don't put up with any crap!  Fight for your rights, it may be easier than you think.

  -Chris  (climbing down the soapbox)
-- 
Chris McCabe   chris_mccabe@mentorg.com
    Mentor Graphics Corporation
(503) 685-7000 (w)   (503) 232-4250 (h)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: balistik@big-brother.nevada.edu (Shawn Hicks)
Subject: Re: Telling US marshals where to put it.
Keywords: auction, pornography
Organization: Not yet, but we're working on it...
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 23:50:53 GMT

In article <36176@ogicse.ogi.edu>, markm@ogicse.ogi.edu (Mark Morrissey) writes:
>In article <1992Apr12.070220.27865@nevada.edu> balistik@big-brother.nevada.edu (Shawn Hicks) writes:
>>[...]
>>       But that leaves the specialty rubber goods. Try as they may, 
>>Current Wisdom staff has not been able to come up with a single
>>suggestion as to what the U.S. marshals should do with those.
>
>I can just see the police auction now:
>
>  "...And now Lot #42.  Lot #42, Rubber Thingies.  What do I hear
>   bid for Lot #42, Rubber Thingies..."
>
>Since the con is a not-for-profit event :-), maybe they would be willing
>to donate them to us?  Shawn, you are now in charge of door prizes.


Mark, I suspect the U.S. Marshals will refuse to give them up. I
hear they have become quite attached to them and some are even
talking about opening a local shop. 

BTW, I volunteer to be the door prize. 


Shawn
Spring Break day 4
From: gal@brchh109.bnr.ca (Gene Lavergne)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Opera Queens
Date: 16 Apr 92 19:21:00 GMT
Reply-To: gal@bnr.ca
Organization: BNR Richardson

In article <librdb.702821087@gsusgi1.gsu.edu>, (Roy D. Berridge) writes:
|>From: librdb@gsusgi2.gsu.edu (Roy D. Berridge)
|>
|> I am sorry, but Hildegard Behrens owns the part.  There will
|> be no discussion.  Thank you.							
|>
|> Roy.
|>
Considering that she has not been able to sing her Elektras at the
Met for the past two weeks, I would suggest she owns NO parts at 
this point in time.  This is a sign of things to come.

I have loved her work in the past and was pleasantly surprised by 
her Fidelio at the Met.  The voice is in tatters.  I suspect the end
is near.  I will miss her.

Gene

--

| gal@bnr.ca (Gene A. Lavergne) | In all of opera, I most identify |
| ESN 446-4842 / (214) 997-4842 | with the character of Elektra.   |
| PO Box 851986, Richardson, TX | That often worries me.           |
| USA 75085-1986 | Opinions expressed here are mine and not BNR's. |
From: buckmr@RPI.EDU (Rondel K. Buckmire)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: 1-800-876-1199: OUT!
Date: 10 Apr 92 19:57:29 GMT


I read (in USA TODAY, of all places) that the new magazine OUT! is going to 
start an 800 number where you can and become a charter subscriber and get a
17-track CD with songs by people like Lou Reed, David Byrne, k.d. lang and
Debbie Harry.

OUT! is supposed to be a lesbian and gay fashion/lifestyle magazine with no 
phone-sex ads etc. Sort of like a Queer _Vanity Fair_ or _Details_ or
something like that.

---
RON BUCKMIRE, 11 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735. 
vox:(518)-276-8910 fax:(518)-276-6920 buckmr@rpi.edu buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet
"I wouldn't mind her personality if only she could ACT." -BETTE on Joan Crawford
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rjchou@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Ri Jen Chou)
Subject: Re: lack of humility
Organization: Motorola Inc., Austin, Texas
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 22:21:01 GMT

Congratulations, Arnold!!!!!!!   This calls for a celebration,
but it must wait until we next meet.  Until then, I send you
my most heartfelt joy upon hearing the news.   


Ri-Jen

-- 
Ri-Jen Chou   		rjchou@decimator.sps.mot.com
1901 Larchmont 		rjchou@emx.utexas.edu		      
Austin Texas 78704