HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: michael.smith@f842.n800.z3.fido.zeta.org.au (michael smith)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: Copywrong and copyright (was: Good Bye Atari)
Organization: Fidonet. Gate admin is fido@socs.uts.edu.au
Date: 14 Dec 92 07:56:24 GMT

Original to: dmb@xbar.ai.mit.edu
In a message of <04 Dec 1992 15:44:4>, dmb@xbar.ai.mit.edu (3:713/602)
writes:

 d> Frankly, I'm really getting sick of people saying "please think" when
 d> they simply disagree with what I'm saying.  Case in point:
 d> 
 >> Using your analogy, the command-line version of Turbo C is a vastly
 >> inferior product to the user front end, even though the front end uses
the
 >> same compiler underneath.
 d> 
 d> Yes.  That's correct.  If Turbo C had no other interface it would be a
 d> piece of worthless garbage in the eyes of typical programmers.  It
 d> wouldn't sell well.  You wouldn't ever have heard of it.

Umm. 'typical programmers'???  
If by typical programmer you mean the sort of colledge student/hobbyist,
then yeah, I guess not.  Very few professional programmers use the IDE,
simply because, again, borland didn't spend enough time making it _WORK_.
If the IDE supported makefiles, rather than those useless .PRJ files, more
people would use it.  As it stands, of the programmers I know (and we're a
pretty close clique in such a small city) almost every single one uses the
commandline version of the compiler.

Oddly enough, a number have started using DJ Delorie's port of GCC to the
PC, because it actually generates some reasonably fast code, as compared to
TC++/BC++.

I'm not saying 'please think' here - I think more like 'please look'.

 >> User interfaces to compilers are trivial relative to the code generation
 >> side of things, it's the icing on the cake.
 d> 
 d> Ah ha ha ha ha ha!  That's a good one.  Why don't you tell that to the
 d> people who worked almost exclusively on user interface issues for years
 d> at Xerox PARC?  Your claim is completely laughable.  Compiler code
 d> generation is a well-understood *science*.  User interface design
 d> is a best an arcane art, and requires voluminous amounts of code and
 d> tons of tweaking.

Yes, but that has nothing to do with the point at hand.
The point is that most serious programmers don't _WANT_ the poofy IDE
approach if it cramps their style - and most do, Borland's included.

 >> Myself I would prefer a compiler
 >> which was not pretty to drive, but produced good code (its primary job)
 >> than one which looked all flash but prroduced cruddy code.
 d> 
 d> Well yourself you is not the typical programmer, which is why yourself
 d> you is happy with GCC while most of the rest of the world wants
 d> something more polished and easy-to-use.  I'm perfectly happy with GCC
 d> too, but I acknowledge that I'm not the typical computer user.

I think you're closer to the norm than you think.  But that's just my
experience -your mileage may vary.

 d> Dave Baggett

\`miff`                                                       /|\

--- ScanMail 0.68 X0501
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From: jared@midiline.la.ca.us (Luposian Knightwolf)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: HPChrome (HPChroma?) wanted!!!
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 92 15:05:05 PST
Organization: MIDILine BBS - Altadena, CA - (818) 797-3285

I was told there exists such a program in Atari Archive.  It allows the 
Atari ST to use the color features of the Hewlett Packard Deskjet 500C.  
That being the main excitement in my life, I want this program!  Sad for 
me, but I don't know how to get into and use atari archive.  Either that, 
or my node (Midiline BBS) doesn't have access.  So, if anyone within the 
USA would kindly obtain this program via Atari archive and send it to me 
in regular US mail, I'd appreciate it extremely!
 
Please make all replies in Email to: jared@midiline.la.ca.us
 
Thanks!
 
Jared
                                                                        

-----
jared@midiline.la.ca.us (Luposian Knightwolf) 
MIDILine BBS (midiline.la.ca.us) - Altadena CA - (818)797-3285
From: dmb@case.ai.mit.edu (David Baggett)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: I am NOT making this up, OK?  (was Re: Closed ... <ho hum>)
Date: 16 Dec 1992 19:18:27 GMT
Organization: MIT Artificial Intelligence Laboratory
NNTP-Posting-Host: case.ai.mit.edu

In article <1992Dec14.193731.1968@news2.cis.umn.edu> davidli@simvax.labmed.umn.edu writes:
>I, on the other hand, wondered just what the hell David was doing talking to
>folks at Atari who had obviously never programmed on an ST in the first place.
>LYNX programmers ... for crying out loud.

It's just *amazing* to me how you can twist everything around so that
it's not Atari's fault.  We met with the group that was the Falcon
games development group.  Many of them happened to have been Lynx
programmers.  Any cluelessness on their part with respect to the Atari
computers was certainly beyond our control.

Dave Baggett
--
dmb@ai.mit.edu           MIT Artificial Intelligence Laboratory                  
ADVENTIONS: interactive fiction (text adventures) for the 90's!
dmb@ai.mit.edu *** Compu$erve: 76440,2671 *** GEnie: ADVENTIONS
Xref: sparky comp.sys.atari.st:18347 comp.sys.atari.st.tech:6245
From: whitcomb@aurs01.UUCP (Jonathan Whitcomb)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st,comp.sys.atari.st.tech
Subject: Re: Surely someone knows...
Date: 14 Dec 92 20:08:49 GMT
Reply-To: whitcomb@aurxc3.aur.alcatel.com.UUCP (Jonathan Whitcomb)
Organization: Alcatel Network Systems, Raleigh NC

In article <71542@cup.portal.com> Bob_BobR_Retelle@cup.portal.com writes:
>Stephen Matson asked about expanding the memory in a 520STFM..
> 
>The first step is to unsolder all 320 holes that Atari conveniently
>soldered shut for you..

This is by far the most time consuming part of the operation.  BTW, the
holes are soldered shut as a result of wave soldering the boards, not by
any deviousness on the part of Atari.  I found the purchase of a
desoldering iron from Radio Shack to be a great help here, as I'm a
total spaz with a solding iron and a separate solder sucker.

>Then, for safety's sake, install sockets in all RAM locations.
>
>The bypass capacitors aren't particularly critical.. use small
>form factor .01 mfd units to make them fit..
>
>The RAM chips are 256K x 1, 150 ns units.  You can install faster chips
>if can get them cheaper..
> 
>The last step is to install three resistors in the RAS and CAS lines
>from the MMU chip to the new RAM bank.  I forget the exact values of
>these resistors (don't have a 520STFM myself), but they're in the range
>of 150 ohms.  There should already be three resistors going to the
>existing bank of RAM.. check to see what these resistors are, and
>emulate them in the new installation.

I seem to recall the values being smaller, but it might be different for
a Mega ST.

>That should be it.. the operating system will recognize the new RAM
>automatically.. you don't have to do anything special to get it to
>see the full 1 Meg of memory..

Bob summed it up rather well, although I'd like to caution you on ESD
(electrostatic discharge).  You can easily fry your RAM chips or other
IC chips with a discharge you can hardly feel.  A grounded wrist strap
is a good idea, as is using some anti-static spray around your work
area.  Try to resist the temptation to scuff your socks on the carpet or
rub the cat before you pick up the board!

Good luck!
**********************************************************************
Jonathan Whitcomb                    UUCP:  whitcomb%aurgate@mcnc.org
Alcatel Network Systems              
Raleigh, North Carolina              GEnie: J.WHITCOMB3
From: esj@harvee.billerica.ma.us (Eric S Johansson)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Organization: gators 'r us
Subject: Re: Piracy of software
	<1ghsfvINNr7f@rs1.rrz.Uni-Koeln.DE> <1992Dec14.154115.23484@bnr.ca>
	<1gin4lINNn1o@life.ai.mit.edu> <greg.724377764@duke>
Reply-To: esj@harvee.billerica.ma.us
X-Software: HERMES GUS 1.04 Rev. Sep  5 1992
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 22:05:10 -0400

In <greg.724377764@duke>, Greg "Maddog" Knauss writes:
>dmb@case.ai.mit.edu (David Baggett) writes:
>
>>				...the Bill Gates biography...
>
>"Hard Drive."  Or, Bill Gates Really Is a Jerk.

I prefer to think of Bill "the anti-christ of personal computing" gates in 
this outland-ish context:

B"tacopc"G: "will you go on a date with me?"

CW: "no."

B"tacopc"G: <think><think><think> !!ah!! "I'll buy you norway!"

CW" "well, ok.  But no kissing!"

B"tacopc"G: "Oh boy, oh boy, oh boy, oh boy!"

--- eric

:-) for the humor impaired.
-- 
HOME: esj@harvee.billerica.ma.us  HAM  ka1eec
WORK: 617.630.4687 (w)   esj@ruby.polaroid.com
source of the public's fear of the unknown since 1956
From: ph9991_imm@rivers.acc.uwrf.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: Serial Connection
Date: 18 Dec 92 16:50:04 -0600
Organization: University of Wisconsin - River Falls

In article <H.ea.TbbYu2JZmGM@yonder.equinox.gen.nz>, craig@yonder.equinox.gen.nz (Craig Shore) writes:
> This was posted locally by someone without net access, 
>  i'm forwarding it here for him.
> 
> =================================================================
> Path: yonder.equinox.gen.nz!equinox!Mark_Andrews
> From: Mark_Andrews@equinox.gen.nz (Mark Andrews)
> Newsgroups: equinox.atari
> Subject: Serial connection.
> Distribution: world
> Message-ID: <Mark_Andrews.5tyk@equinox.gen.nz>
> Date: 17 Dec 92 17:02:43 +1200
> Organization: Equinox Networks
> 
> A complete stranger came up to me today and asked me how to access the
> serial port on an Atari using GW Basic.  Not surprising I didn't know, but
> I thought someone here might be able to help.
> 
> Aparently he wants to connect some sort of relay device to his RS-232 port,
> he has a prgram written in GW Basic for use on an IBM.  It does something
> like:
> OPEN comms1
> 
> What is the equivilent device name for the Atari or will he have to be
> crude and poke at addresses?

  If he's planning on using ST basic, (but this should work in other
dialects) use this statement:
OPEN "O",filenumber,"AUX:"
where the "O" represents Output file, filenumber is an integer number used
to identify the file. If he plans on inputting data, use "I" instead.

Another way to do this in ST basic is to use the INP and OUT statements.
OUT 1,N% will output a byte (if 0<=N%<=255) to the RS-232 port. To read the
port use
IREADY%=INP(-1) 
if the value is .not. zero there is a byte available and then use 
IDATA%=INP(1)
to get the byte. if you do not use the IREADY%
check, THE SYSTEM WILL HANG until there is a byte available. (This disables
any keyboard [Ctrl-C] or AES events)

Larry Imm
--
larry.o.imm@uwrf.edu
From: ersmith@netcom.com (Eric R. Smith)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: Multi-tasking
Date: 15 Dec 92 18:30:40 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <1givnuINNir@katmandu.solbourne.com> stevem@solbourne.com (Stephen Matson) writes:
> Is MiNT the defacto standard for multi-tasking on the st?

It's not only the de facto standard for multitasking, it's also
the de jure standard (i.e. the official one). Or perhaps more
accurately I should say it's "going to be" the official standard,
since MultiTOS when it is released will use the MiNT kernel to
provide multitasking. (MultiTOS will also provide a much enhanced
AES and desktop which will have extensions to support multitasking).

> I've heard that GFA-Basic programs don't work under MiNT. Is 
> this true?
 
Many GFA Basic programs don't work properly with any multitasking
system. This is partly due to bugs in GFA Basic's memory management,
and partly due to the somewhat cavalier attitudes towards following
the "rules" that some (certainly not all) Basic programmers have.

Regards,
Eric Smith
ersmith@netcom.com	ersmith@atari.uucp
I may work for Atari, but I sure don't speak for them!
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st,comp.sys.atari.st.tech
From: willing@opus.hpl.hp.com (Scott Willingham)
Subject: Re: gem progs run from gulam lock up
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 22:12:33 GMT
Organization: High Speed Electronics Department, HP Labs, Palo Alto, CA
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

svleest@lasso.crhc.uiuc.edu (Steve VanderLeest) writes:
: Certain gem programs that I run from the gulam shell (using the gem
: command) lock up the machine, while others do not.  It also appears that
: every gem program I write and compile myself also lock up.  If I open
: a single window within my program (which runs perfectly from the desktop)
: it also displays a blank window which is the size of the window I ran 
                                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
: gulam from.  No mouse or keyboard inputs are recognized (and they should
  ^^^^^^^^^^
: be).  Does anyone have any ideas why this happens?  I tried simplifying
: my program down to doing next to nothing, but I still get the problem.

Gulam was written well before anyone started running shells within TOS
windows.  It is meant to run on the whole screen and essentially take
over subsequent program launchings, replacing the desktop.  It is thus
not surprising that it doesn't cooperate well with the desktop or even
with any multitasking in general.

Scott Willingham // willing@hpl-opus.hpl.hp.com
From: abaddon@uk.ac.liverpool.scm.suprenum (Kevin o donovan)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: Piracy of software
Date: 16 Dec 92 11:44:42 GMT
	<1992Dec10.171254.23031@nosc.mil> <1g92vdINN1em5@rs1.rrz.Uni-Koeln.DE>
Organization: Centre for Mathematical Software Research, Univ. Liverpool, UK

>>>>> On 11 Dec 92 03:46:53 GMT, aeg03@rrz.uni-koeln.de (Jan T. Kim) said:
> NNTP-Posting-Host: rs1.rrz.uni-koeln.de

> In <1992Dec10.171254.23031@nosc.mil> healy@nosc.mil (Mike Healy) writes:

> However, this reason for prohibiting stealing applies in  no  way
> to  software.  If  someone  copies  my  disk,  I  still  have the
> original. I neither have to spend a significant  amount  of  time
> without  my program, nor do I have to spend any money for getting
> another disk.
But they are stealing from the true owners of the software, the people
who wrote it. If you check your software (assuming any of its original)
you'll probably find a licensing agreement on it, which you agreed to
when you bought the software. And before we come out with the line about
"Pirating only hurts the software companies, not the programmers, so
that's why I do it", lets ask some of these programmers whether or not
they'd like to give you a pat on the back for ripping of their work.

> flow is a severe problem of software property. It is absurd  that
> a  programmer  writes  software so people can use it, and then he
> has to prevent most people from using it in order to turn it into
> money.
Can someone send a copy of this thread to Richard Stallman? I'm sure
he'd be thrilled to see what people are using the ideals of the Gnu 
project to justify. Not.

Kev
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: Big name hype
From: sheppard_r@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
Date: 15 Dec 1992 08:17:05 GMT
Reply-To: sheppard_r@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
 om> <2B285F48.14570@news.service.uci.edu>,<71535@cup.portal.com>
Organization: Wellington City Council (Public Access), Wgtn, Nz
NNTP-Posting-Host: kosmos.wcc.govt.nz

In article <71535@cup.portal.com>, Bob_BobR_Retelle@cup.portal.com writes:
>Regarding Spectrum Holobyte and "Flight of the Intruder"..
> 
>The SH representative who answered questions about why SH was
>NOT going to be releasing ANY more games for the ST said that
>in the first (three?) months of its release, FOTI had sold
>over 10,000 copies on the IBM platform, over 4,000 on the Amiga,
>and only 700 on the Atari ST.  With numbers like that, they
>couldn't justify putting any further resources into any other
>ST releases.
> 
> 
>BobR


Bob there was a masive big flaw in this argument, they never ever counted
the European sales of FOTI, this is the one big flaw in all USA Software
sales, they only look at USA Sales..

Is it not that 90% of the Atari market is in Europe..??.

Also note: when FOTI came out there were 3 or more releases of similar or
better flight simulators at about the same time..!!...


I don't think that Spectrum Holobyte did there home work right..??


May be some one should tell them...??



Roger...............            sheppard_r@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: Christmas Wish List (<$100 US)
From: erkamp@janus (Bob Erkamp)
Date: 14 Dec 92 11:29:02 MDT
Reply-To: erkamp@janus
Organization: Alberta Research Council

In article <Bz0Jow.97C@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu>, kllove@avenger.ecn.uoknor.edu (Kenneth L Love) writes:
>
>I have $100-$110 (US) to buy myself a Christmas present.  I've decided
>to get something for my Mega 2ST (w/ TOS 1.02, 2 MBs RAM, 105 MB HD,
>SC1224, SM??? [monochrome monitor], 720K floppy) system.  I'm looking for
>suggestions.
>
>It can be hardware, software, or a combination of both.  However, I can't
>go over $110 (this is an extreme upper limit).
>
>Here are some of the major packages that I already have:
>     PageStream 2.2
>     Lattice C v5
>     UIS III v3.1
>     LDW Power v1.?
>     Word Writer ST
>     GFA BASIC v3.0
>     I'm sure there are more, but I'm drawing blanks at the moment
>     Lots and lots of games
>
>I'm not terribly interested in more games (though Populous II would be
>an exception if the right offer was made :).
>
>So if you had this system, what you get for $100?
>
>Sending replies by e-mail will be the most likely to be seen, but post if
>you must.
>

Well I have a similar system and I would recommend the following:

TOS 1.4
NeoDesk3
QuickST (now Warp 9)
More memory

Bob
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
From: BWWL@ibm.rz.tu-clausthal.de (Wolfgang Ley)
Subject: Re: LZH decompressor
Organization: Rechenzentrum der TU CLAUSTHAL
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 16:33:41 GMT

In article <church.724304382@sfu.ca>
church@fraser.sfu.ca (Mike James Church) writes:
 
>2 questions.
>
>1.   Where can I get the LZH file decompression program,
>
>and,
>
>2.   Where can Atari file be found on the net?
>
 
Try anonymous FTP to ftp.tu-clausthal.de (139.174.1.3) and look at
/pub/atari/Index.complete.Z etc.
 
An LZH-compresser is in
/pub/atari/archivers/lzh201l.ttp
 
Bye,
  Wolfgang.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
       Wolfgang Ley                               e-mail:
       Teichstrasse 9
W-3392 Clausthal-Zellerfeld                     BWWL@ibm.rz.tu-clausthal.de
       (Germany)                            or  BWWL@sun.rz.tu-clausthal.de
       Phone: +49 5323 82132 (voice)        or  Ley@rz.tu-clausthal.de
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
From: jbunch@nyx.cs.du.edu (John Bunch)
Subject: Re: JRI simm upgrade questions
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 92 22:36:57 GMT

randyh@sad.hp.com (Randy Hosler) writes:

>[ Article crossposted from comp.sys.atari.st.tech ]
>[ Author was Randy Hosler ]
>[ Posted on Tue, 8 Dec 1992 17:09:57 GMT ]

>Hello all,

>I recently became the owner of a 520ST upgraded to 2.5 megs and TOS 1.4.
>Last night I opened up the box to do the Overscan mod and discovered that
>my 520ST had the JRI simm memory upgrade.  I have no documentation on it
>and so am hoping that someone out there can answer my questions.

>I want to add another 2 megs of simms.  How do I disable the 1/2 meg that's
>on the motherboard?  I saw one jumper on the board that plugs into the
>video shifter.  Do I need to remove it to add the extra ram?  

I dont remember about how that was done..  I had a 520 with a jri board.
I had 4 megs, but it has been 2 years since I have used, looked at that
machine. 

>Also there is an extra video shifter socket.  What's the story on this?
>Do I just plug in another shifter for the larger palette or do I need
>some software to enable it?

As far as I can remeber all you have to do is install the second
videoshifter chip and you then get the 4096 color palette.  I dont think
there was any software needed, but if you try it and get no extra palette
colors then send me mail, cause I know I still have the disk that came
with the jri board around here somewhere.

>Please post or email any and all information you may have about this upgrade.

>Thanks, Randy Hosler

John

P.S.  I had no problems with the board,  But I bought an STe for some of
the other feature it offered...  (Blitter, Hardware scrolling etc..)

--
John B Bunch              *  I don't want the world, I just want your
280 Quail St. 1st Floor   *     half....     -TMBG
Albany, NY 12208          *  jbunch@nyx.cs.du.edu If mail here bounces
(518) 436-3810            *  Try John.Bunch@bbs.oit.unc.edu
From: Bob_BobR_Retelle@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: SCSI Floppy Drives
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 92 15:37:45 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <Bz6I6J.9M4@unix.amherst.edu> <Bz6vFJ.18v@ucunix.san.uc.edu>
  <1992Dec13.162843.7658@solace.hsh.se>
  <1992Dec13.175737.26832@u.washington.edu>

Dan Aylward writes:

>Also, it will be easy to hook up an external floppy via the SCSI2 port.  

Umm.. yes, it will be trivially easy to "hook up" a SCSI floppy to
the Falcon's SCSI port.

However..  has anyone ever *priced* a SCSI floppy drive..?

Has anyone even SEEN a SCSI floppy drive for sale..?

(I've asked these questions before, but never gotten much information
so I just took a browse through the new Computer Shopper.  Couldn't find
a single place selling SCSI floppy drives.  Of course, since CS is mostly
PC stuff, I'm not surprised.  It's been said that a Macintosh external
floppy drive might work..  could be.. I don't know squat about Macs..)

Secondly, a SCSI floppy would have to have a SCSI device driver installed,
just like a SCSI hard drive.  The desktop is not going to just automatically
recoginize it as "Drive B"..
 
Would something like ICD's utilities for the Link work with a SCSI floppy?
Maybe..    does ICD sell their Link utilities separately..?

Will AHDI 5.0 work with SCSI floppy drives..?  If not, will Atari think it
much of a priority to modify it to work with them..?  Perhaps the Falcon
will have to come with a new set of hard drive utilities to work with the
internal IDE hard drive anyway, and maybe those will also work with an
external SCSI floppy drive..   does anyone who already have a Falcon
know if that's true or not..?

That's a lot of open questions..  yes, you can "hook up" a LOT of SCSI
devices, but getting them to do anything is the trick...
 
BobR
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
From: mike@medsun.unige.ch (michel morris)
Subject: HP550C GDOS driver ????!!!!
Organization: University of Geneva, Switzerland
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 15:36:26 GMT

Does somebody out there have one?
Or know where to get/buy one?
Or know how to write one (in return for Swiss choccy ;-)  )?
HELP!!!

Mike (monochrome) Morris
From: michael.smith@f842.n800.z3.fido.zeta.org.au (michael smith)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: ZIP
Organization: Fidonet. Gate admin is fido@socs.uts.edu.au
Date: 14 Dec 92 07:46:08 GMT

Original to: qsi@contrast.wlink.nl
In a message of <07 Dec 92 10:48:34>, qsi@contrast.wlink.nl (3:713/602)
writes:

 W>> Do not archie files with ST-ZIP v2.0 It's very fast as doing
 W>> it, and eveb faster at extracting, but it's compression routines
 W>> seem to have a glitch in them. They don't work most of the
 W>> time!
 q> 
 q> I don't have any problems with it. Could you describe the glitch more
 q> precisely?

Ask vincent yourself via fido for more details - basically the problem
manifests itself as corrupted files in an archive (usually only a small
number - the actual size of the file has proven to be unimportnat - it's
just that a larger file is more likely to be hit by the bug 8)

 q> YHS:QSI!

\`miff`                                                       /|\

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Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st