HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: "Steven Klos" <p00031@psilink.com>
Subject: Where in the Bay Area is there an Aerodome?
Organization: Open Software Associates
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 20:31:31 GMT
X-Mailer: PSILink (3.2)

Anyone out there do any soaring the in the general Bay Area (left 
coast)?  Last time I lived here (about 2 years ago), there used to be a 
glider port near Vacaville (now a horse ranch or some such thing) and 
one in Fremont (haven't seen any gliders during the last part of the 
summer)...

Any suggestions as to where a guy might go for a fix?  It's been awhile 
since I've been up in any plane that wasn't powered by some noisy jets 
and piloted by someone with a whole bunch more hours then I have at the 
moment.  I need to get some stick time!

Thanks,

SK

Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
From: trebor@foretune.co.jp (Robert J Woodhead)
Subject: Re: Scratching
Organization: Foretune Co., Ltd.
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 04:06:21 GMT

gaynier@elec.uq.oz.au (Ron Gaynier) writes:

>I have often heard people talk about climbing to the top of a rising bubble
>of air, I don't think this is possible. Remember that a glider is normally 
>sinking through the air mass even when thermaling. What causes us to climb is
>the fact that the air mass is rising faster than the glider is sinking and
>the net affect is an increase in altitude. If we could climb faster than the
>air mass is rising then we wouldn't need thermals at all. If you stay in
>a rising bubble of air you will eventually come out the bottom as it rises
>faster than you do.

This assumes that all of the air in the thermal is moving upwards at the
same speed as the thermal as a whole, and this is probably untrue.  If
you've every seen the old "dye in a tank of water" thermal demo, you
know that quite often, the dye at the core of the thermal is sort of
like a donut that is torodially (?) rotating -- the inner core is
going up, over the top, down the outside, and back in again -- due
to friction with the surrounding medium.  This means that the core
of the thermal can be going up faster than the thermal as a whole,
and so a glider circling in the inner core could indeed climb to
the top of the thermal!

Or at least, that's my explanation!

-- 
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ 
| Robert J. Woodhead, Biar Games / AnimEigo, Incs.    trebor@foretune.co.jp |
|  Fundamental Mistakes in the design of the World's User Interface, #3217  |
|                   "Elevators don't have CANCEL buttons"                   | 
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
From: petri@venus.iucf.indiana.edu (HOWARD PETRI)
Subject: Guy Byars E-Mail Address
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4   
     Sorry to use up the bandwidth this way but.....
Reply-To: petri@venus.iucf.indiana.edu
Organization: INDIANA U. CYCLOTRON FACILITY, BLOOMINGTON, IN
Distribution:  usa
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 19:41:20 GMT

Guy, my e-mail bounces using the Wins mailer.
Is something wrong with the address you gave me at Ceasar's Creek
this weekend?         
                         FEGUY@SORC.COM

Howard Petri
Pegasus  (EJ) 
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
From: pet@uni-paderborn.de (Thomas Petrick)
Subject: Re: World class gliders
Organization: Uni-GH Paderborn, Germany
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 17:43:35 GMT

Hi there,

> I understand that the world class fly off is currently in process somewhere
> in Germany. Is there anyone out there who can tell us what is going on there?

The last information I got:

A comparison meeting (12 world class gliders ?!?) took place in
Oerlinghausen(Germany) last week. Up to now, there are no technical details
and photos published. 
I'm going to post some information when I got them (hoping this will happen in
the next 2 weeks).


Bye,
	pet


-- 
+------------------------------+------------------------------+
| Thomas Petrick               |   Uni-GH-Paderborn           |
|                              |                              |
| EMail: pet@uni-paderborn.de  |   Workstation Administration |
+------------------------------+------------------------------+
From: dhoward@doffice.Corp.Sun.COM (Dave Howard)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
Subject: Re: Where in the Bay Area is there an Aerodome?
Date: 5 Oct 1992 20:43:56 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: dhoward@doffice.Corp.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: doffice.corp.sun.com

In article p00031@psilink.com, p00031@psilink.com (Steven Klos) writes:
	> Anyone out there do any soaring the in the general Bay Area (left 
	> coast)?  Last time I lived here (about 2 years ago), there used to be a 
	> glider port near Vacaville (now a horse ranch or some such thing) and 
	> one in Fremont (haven't seen any gliders during the last part of the 
	> summer)...
	> 
	> Any suggestions as to where a guy might go for a fix?  It's been awhile 
	> since I've been up in any plane that wasn't powered by some noisy jets 
	> and piloted by someone with a whole bunch more hours then I have at the 
	> moment.  I need to get some stick time!
	> 
	> Thanks,
	> 
	> SK
	

Lagoon Valley Soaring (in Vacaville) has moved to a new location in 
Vacaville.  Their phone # is the same...707/447-4500.  Sky Soaring
(Fremont) is out of business and moving to Hollister.


-Dave

Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
From: 0000-Admin(0000) <root@lri.uwo.ca>
Subject: Ballasting a glider
Organization: Relayed-by-Sendmail
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 21:32:04 GMT
To: rec.aviation.soaring@julian.uwo.ca


*>I've got two question about soaring:
*>
*>1. Why do high performance sailplanes carry water ballast?  (I got asked this
*>question because a couple of the pictures posted to the net had water
*>streaming out of them.  I used to know, but I forgot.)
*>
*
*The best glide ratio (the ratio of altitude loss to forward movement)
*is independent of operating weight.  However, by increasing operating
*weight, we can change the speed at which that ratio occurs.  More weight,
*the higher the airspeed for best glide ratio.


NO!! NO!! NO!!
Sorry folks, but the polar does change as a function of wing loading.
If you look at the polars for the new breed of gliders it is *very* obvious
that it changes. Additionally, if you look at some glider adverts, 
the best glide ratio improves with greater wing loading.

Unfortunately, I am not too terribly clear on why the glide ratio changes.
Since the new gliders can change the wing loading thru a tremendous range
the Re numbers will change significantly. Perhaps this is one of the 
reasons.

What bothers me, however, is that the formulas in basic aerodynamic
books clearly shows that wing loading is not a factor. The only way
I can see the formulas being correct, yet the polars changing with
wing loading is if the wing characteristic changes significantly with
Re, hence some of the terms in the equations a functions, not 
constants.
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
From: rcg@delphi.dseg.ti.com (bob gibbons)
Subject: Re: Hunting for thermals.
Organization: Texas Instruments
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 14:35:23 GMT

In article <10504@uqcspe.cs.uq.oz.au> colin@cs.uq.oz.au (Colin Millerchip) writes:

>   I'd like to start a discussion on how people hunt for thermals. 
>
>   < deleted >
>
>   The two techniques that I've met are: 
>
>    - clouds; cu-s often have thermals under them, so on clouded days 
>   here in Oz thermal hunting can be fairly straightforward. Other factors
>   have been mentioned/alluded to, such as overdevelopment of the day, or
>   the day "cycling".  

An important point I would like to add is scanning potential cumulus
during the climb. Do not wait until you are up in the haze at cloudbase
to determine the exact direction of flight. While climbing up, look out
along the course line every turn or so to determine cloud growth
history. Which clouds are growing, which are dying. At any instant of
time, both newly formed clouds and dying clouds look identical. If you
have been watching for 5 minutes as you climb, you can tell the
difference. Also you can get a much better view of clouds along the
course line at the lower altitudes of the initial climb, at the top of
the thermal your view of the cu ahead is poor.

Also, look at the cloud shadows on the ground (assuming visibility is
good enough to see that far). These cloud shadows give important clues
as to potential streeting.

>    - heat sources and "triggers": on blue days (ie, a cloudless sky), 
>   look for ground sources that are likely to be hot (for eg, large black
>   paddocks), and then look for the trigger point -- some obstacle,
>   usually slightly downwind of the source, which initiates the thermal.  

On blue days, I have never found ground triggers to be of much use
except when low (below, say, 600m). By and large, I just fly straight on
course until I hit something, with two general guidelines, 1.) if sink
seems to be long lasting, try a 45 deg course deviation, you might be in
a sink street, and 2.) try to stay to the high ground, you determine
this by watching stream beds, usually shown by tree lines along the
beds. These streams, even though small, will follow the low elevations,
try to stay to the intervening high ground for better heating.

Of course these guidelines are for flat land soaring. My principal
soaring area is northeast Texas, very flat.


--
Bob Gibbons				Texas Instruments
Internet: rcg@delphi.dseg.ti.com	Dallas, TX
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
From: Michael Steckner <steckner@lri.uwo.ca>
Subject: I need help with a glider faq
Organization: Relayed-by-Sendmail
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 14:40:45 GMT
To: rec.aviation.soaring@julian.uwo.ca

I would like to assemble a glider faq. It is too large a task for any one
person to take on. Therefore I am looking for help from others on the net.
I would like people who have been flying for many years, some instructors,
some contest pilots, people who have a good idea of the literature 
(magazines, journals etc).

NOTE that this is not necessarily the ONLY faq this group will have. We are
 the umbrella organization for all facets of unpowered flight. I suggest that
we have a glider faq, hang gliding faq, ballooning faq, and whatever other
faqs are deemed necessary. I personally have no knowledge of the other topics
and wish to leave it to those suitably inclined.

Please send me a note stating your interest to help and your background.

Thanks a bunch!
From: tks@kestrel.nwc.navy.mil (Tom Serkowski)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
Subject: Re: Glider Waxing
Date: 6 Oct 92 14:50:39 GMT
Article-I.D.: avalon.BvpFwF.B69
Distribution: usa
Organization: Naval Weapons Center, China Lake, CA

I use Meguiars (sp?) Classic car cleaner/wax with the blessing of my sailplane repairman.

I usually buy a day's shop time & use his heavy-duty buffer & wax the whole
plane annually.

They also make a cleaner that I guess is a mild rubbing compound that works great to remove minor blemishes by hand - if you dont have a power buffer.

Tom Serkowski
ASW20B  (5Z)
From: ge@dutlru3.tudelft.nl (Ge van Geldorp)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
Subject: Publisher of "Werkstattpraxis"?
Date: 5 Oct 92 16:56:34 GMT
Distribution: eunet
Organization: Delft Univ. of Technology, Fac. of Aerospace Engineering


I want to buy the book "Werkstattpraxis", written by Hans Jakobs and Herbert
Luck. The local bookstore can order it for me if I tell them the name of
the publisher. Would someone please dig up his/her copy and tell me?
TIA.

Ge van Geldorp.
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
From: battlec@cs.rpi.edu (Clark Battle)
Subject: mail net
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 01:04:56 GMT

** FOR YOUR REFERENCE **
 
The service addresses, to which questions about the list itself and requests
to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, are as follows:
 
    Internet: Hang-Gliding-Request@fuggles.acc.Virginia.EDU
              Hang-Gliding-Request@uvaarpa.Virginia.EDU
    BITNET:   HG-Req@Virginia
    UUCP:     ...!uunet!virginia!hang-gliding-request
 
You can send mail to the entire list via one of these addresses:
 
    Internet: Hang-Gliding@fuggles.acc.Virginia.EDU
              Hang-Gliding@uvaarpa.Virginia.EDU
    BITNET:   H-Glide@Virginia
    UUCP:     ...!uunet!virginia!hang-gliding
From: imsl1@jane.uh.edu (MIKE BROOKS)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
Subject: Scratching
Date: 2 Oct 92 19:34:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: jane.2OCT199214342932
Organization: University of Houston
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In addition to the existing thermalling thread,
does anyone have tips about thermalling when
at ,say, 1000 feet (and sweating)?

Prior to pattern entry at my home field, I can
usually find some 0-sink to 1/2-knot lift to
work for a while, but I can never sustain it
well enough to make the save and climb out.

Being blown downwind takes on added significance
while trying to keep the field in sight.

Hints? -- Or do I just need to "thermal better"
down low? BTW -- my personal cutoff at this time
is 1100' AGL -- I'm not looking to thermal into the
ground, just practice low saves.

                     Mike Brooks
                     brooks@imsl.com
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
From: harts@sun006.research.ptt.nl (Paul Harts)
Subject: Re: Soaring GODS!
Organization: PTT Research, Groningen
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 13:26:31 GMT

Michael, 

Although I didn't folow a camp, and learned 
soaring in a regular groundschool, I would 
recomment you first to go to a 
camp, on a sunny and thermal location, then 
to practice further in a regular ground school. 

This is probably the way to learn soaring
really fast because especially in your first
say 20 flights it's extremely important to 
be in the air for a longer period. This is 
the only way to learn to make correct curves. 

After the first 20 starts you begin 
concentrating on the start and landing
procedures. From that moment it's only 
important to make a lot of starts, time 
up in the air is irrelevant. So, also 
to keep costs low, I would recomment a
folowup in a groundschool. 

                 /|
--------________//__________
               //           --------
           /-----/  
              |

Paul 
==================================================================
email: P.P.W.M.Harts@research.ptt.nl  | 'What's a FAQ?'
mail : Winschoterdiep OZ 46           |  probably is one.
       P.O. 15000                     |
       9700 CD  Groningen             |
       Netherlands                    |  
==================================================================
From: Bruce.Hoult@bbs.actrix.gen.nz
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
Subject: Re: Two dumb questions...
Date: 3 Oct 92 17:17:34 GMT
Organization: Actrix Information Exchange

In article <1992Oct2.181254.15223@geovision.gvc.com> pt@geovision.gvc.com writes:
>
> 1. Why do high performance sailplanes carry water ballast?  (I got asked this
> question because a couple of the pictures posted to the net had water
> streaming out of them.  I used to know, but I forgot.)

The extra weight gives them a higher sink rate (bad), but also greater
penetration forwards (good in speed competitions).  Interestingly, the
glide angle stays the same, but at a higher speed.


-- 
Bruce.Hoult@bbs.actrix.gen.nz   Twisted pair: +64 4 477 2116
BIX: brucehoult                 Last Resort:  PO Box 4145 Wellington, NZ
"Cray's producing a 500 MIPS personal computer with 256MB RAM and 8 GB
hard disk that fits in your pocket!"   "Great!  Is it PC compatible?"
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
From: geoff@peck.com (Geoff Peck)
Subject: CHARTER: rec.aviation.soaring
Followup-To: rec.aviation.misc
Reply-To: geoff@peck.com
Organization: Geoffrey G. Peck, Consultant, San Jose CA
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 17:06:39 GMT

Welcome to rec.aviation.soaring.  This message, and companion messages
like it, will be posted to each of the new rec.aviation.* groups weekly
through the end of November, to allow people to view the charters of each
newsgroup and better understand where to post articles.

The charter of rec.aviation.soaring is:

*****************************************************************************
*   Soaring and hang-gliding: equipment, maintenance, instruments, safety,  *
*   training, soaring sites, current events, FAI badge rules and class      *
*   definitions, meteorology, history, homebuilts, vintage sailplanes, the  *
*   science and technology of motorless flight, etc.                        *
*****************************************************************************

There are now a thirteen separate subgroups on rec.aviation; if the charter
above doesn't match the content of the article you're posting (or you're
following up), please consider one of the other groups as a more
appropriate forum:

    announce (MOD)    military      piloting        soaring
    answers  (MOD)    misc          products        stories (MOD)
    homebuilt         owning        simulators      student
    ifr 

A common question is "what should I do if an article spans the charters of
two or more groups?"  The answer is cross-posting.  If you have an article
which clearly crosses the boundaries of several groups, you should post a
**single** copy of the article to **all* of the groups.  Don't post
separate copies to each group.  Most modern newsreaders will display the
article exactly once to the reader -- in the first group in which it is
encountered and read.

If you feel that the replies should be directed to a subset of the groups
to which you are submitting your post, be sure to include a line of the
form "Followup-to: groupname" in the header of your message.  See the
header of this message for an example.

If you are replying to a cross-posted article and your reply is germane to
only a subset of the original groups, please ensure that you check the
Newsgroups: line to remove unnecessary groups.  If the reply is germane to
all the groups in which the article was originally posted, try to ensure
that all the groups are listed in the Newsgroups: line.  Some older
newsreaders cause a reply to go only to the group which is currently being
read.

Use cross-posting sparingly.  If an article "90% belongs" in one group and
"10% belongs" in another, post it only to the first group.

						Geoff

Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
From: battlec@cs.rpi.edu (Clark Battle)
Subject: Re: Hunting for thermals.
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 01:09:01 GMT

my dad produces a pretty big thermal after a bowl of beans!  keep your
eye out for him!  :^)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
From: gbb@bnr.co.uk (Geoff Brown)
Subject: Re: Scratching
Organization: BNR Europe Ltd., London Road, Harlow, Essex, UK
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 10:48:10 GMT

In article <gaynier.718246437@s1.elec.uq.oz.au> gaynier@elec.uq.oz.au (Ron Gaynier) writes:
>I have often heard people talk about climbing to the top of a rising bubble
>of air, I don't think this is possible.  . . . . If you stay in
>a rising bubble of air you will eventually come out the bottom as it rises
>faster than you do.
>
>Ron Gaynier

Whenever you are climbing with a gaggle you will notice that everyone tends
to end up at the same level, regardless of the height they join at.  This
seems to imply that the air flow within the bubble may be shaped like a
torus. ie. (cross section).

                  < < <   > > >
                  |   ^   ^   |
                  v   |   |   v
                  |   ^   ^   |
                  v   |   |   v
                  |   ^   ^   |
                  v   |   |   v
                  > > >   < < <

   The air in the centre of the bubble is rising faster than the net height
increase of the bubble.  In this way you do not fall out the bottom, but
all meet at the top.  Unless you join too far underneath, then you circle
down while everyone else circles up (I've seen it happen) !

	Geoff Brown	E-mail: G.B.D.Brown@bnr.co.uk
			BNR Europe Ltd., London Road, Harlow, Essex
From: ludeman@astroatc.uucp (Weekend Pilot)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
Subject: Re: Scratching
Date: 5 Oct 92 15:56:40 GMT
Organization: Astronautics Technology Cntr, Madison, WI

In article <gaynier.718246437@s1.elec.uq.oz.au> gaynier@elec.uq.oz.au (Ron Gaynier) writes:
>
>I have often heard people talk about climbing to the top of a rising bubble
>of air, I don't think this is possible. Remember that a glider is normally 
>sinking through the air mass even when thermaling. 

Clarence See, in the course of forty or more years of flying sailplanes,
told me that exactly *twice* he has thermaled up in the blue to  the 
condensation level and had a cumulus start to form all around him -- i.e.
he was indeed at the very top of the bubble.  This is possible if the thermal
follows the torroidal bubble model, the sailplane is well centered in the
core and the core rate of rise exceeds the overall rate of rise by more
than the sink rate of the sailplane.  Pretty neat.  
-- 
Evan Ludeman   
astroatc!ludeman@spool.cs.wisc.edu 
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
From: kerry@Ingres.COM (Kerry Kurasaki)
Subject: Re: Two dumb questions...
Reply-To: kerry@Ingres.COM (Kerry Kurasaki)
Organization: Ask Computer Systems Inc., Ingres Division, Alameda CA 94501
Date: 6 Oct 92 18:08:45 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.181254.15223@geovision.gvc.com> pt@geovision.gvc.com writes:
>I've got two question about soaring:
>
>1. Why do high performance sailplanes carry water ballast?  (I got asked this
>question because a couple of the pictures posted to the net had water
>streaming out of them.  I used to know, but I forgot.)
>

The best glide ratio (the ratio of altitude loss to forward movement)
is independent of operating weight.  However, by increasing operating
weight, we can change the speed at which that ratio occurs.  More weight,
the higher the airspeed for best glide ratio.

The (minimum) sink rate is very dependent upon operating weight.  Less
weight, less sink.

Water ballast gives the advantage of providing a higher speed-to-fly
(to improve distance making ability in cross-country operations)
when lift is strong (earlier in the day) and the opportunity to reduce
the operating weight (by dumping ballast) to reduce the sink rate
when lift is weak (late in the day).

I hope this explanation is simple and clear.

Kerry
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring