From: schuck@fraser.sfu.ca (Bruce Jonathan Schuck)
Subject: Re: Teen Agent, Can you Hear Me? Teen Agent, Can You See Me? (was: Clay Shaw is Clay Bertrand, Oswald *was* a Teen Agent
Reply-To: Bruce_Schuck@sfu.ca
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 06:54:53 GMT

Mitchell S Todd >
Bruce Schuck >>
Robert "Skeptical of one side only" Sheaffer >>>
David Wright >>>>

>>>Oswald was only 20 when he went to the USSR, supposedly as a "CIA
>>>operative." That means that his alleged training must have taken
>>>place while he was literally a teenager.

>>So. They train teenagers to fly fighter planes.

>	Since when? Last I checked, you have to be a college grad
>	to fly one.

Did you check 1959/1960?

Whether you did or not is irrelevant. There are hundreds of deadly
MOS' in the military and most of them *don't* have an age
requirement.

>>They sent hundreds of thousands of teenagers to Vietnam.

>	"They" did so more by necessity than choice. Conscription
>	tends to keep the grunts young, especially when an unpopular
>	war keeps a lot of poeple from enlisting on thier own for
>	longer terms.

>	Anyway, how did these tenneagers do in 'Nam?

Not very well at all.

Are you implying the military was *smarter* in 1960 than in 1964-1975?

That *is* wishful thinking. :)

>>If you have any evidence that the CIA or other US agencies wait until
>>people are over 21 to send them off to die please post it.

>	Yeah, but the idea is for the spy not to die. They're there
>	to collect information. Generally specialized information.
>	That requires a specialist with a good deal of knowledge in
>	his specialty. 

Why specialized information? Spies come in all types. Some specialize,
some don't. His mission may have been very simple. It's goal could
have been to learn how the KGB/GRU handle military defectors. Such
information would be of great value for future infiltrators.

>>There is evidence that the Office of Naval Intelligence had a program 
>>designed to infiltrate the USSR by having young military personnel act
>>disaffected and defect. The program may have infiltrated as many as 40
>>military personnel , some for only a few weeks , into the USSR.

>>Between 1945 and 1959, only 2 US military personnel defected to the USSR.

>>In the 18 months leading up to 1960, 11 men with military backgrounds
>>or backgrounds with access to sensitive data defected.

>>Just a coincidence -- I think not!

>	And what were these men supposed to find out? A defector would
>	be so controlled and scrutinized by the Soviets that they would
>	be of little or no use. 

Finding out *how* the KGB and GRU operated would have been excellent
intelligence, and worth the risk of losing an occasional motivated
Marine. The military didn't have much problem with killing off lots of
Marines a few years later in Vietnam for much less gain.

>       Anyway, how many of these men returned?

A few. Oswald was one.

>	How can you be a spy when the MVD/KGB, sure that you are a spy,
>	is keeping close tabs on you?

Gee you are dense! How did all those KGB men operate in the West when
everyone knew who they were. The answer is pretty damn well!
The same goes for intelligence officers operating out of embassies
behind what was the Iron Curtain. Just because its hard doesn't mean
you don't try!

>	Which leads to the big question: what was Oswald supposed to
>	find out? 

I can think of 100's of things he could find out just by being in the
USSR. Are the people dissatisfied? Who would be good to contact?
Do they eat well? What would be a good bribe? What's the state of
their electronics industry etc etc. He could even marry the daughter
of someone high up in the party and listen to gossip!

Gee Mitchell...you have no imagination at all. Or do you think all
spies carry Walther PPK's and Licenses to Kill and say "My names Bond,
James Bond." :) :) :)