HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: paul@sco.COM (Paul Jackson)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: Do U customize games 4 players?
Date: 15 Aug 92 18:23:57 GMT
Organization: SCO Canada, Inc.

In article <1992Aug13.134751.58135@cc.usu.edu> sl9b4@cc.usu.edu (Deep Six) writes:
>So, if I write reasonable, realistic scenarios, the characters will not 
>have as many opportunities to play out their specialties, but the plots 
>will be more solid. What would you do? 

Personally, I'd do a combination of both :-). When I design scenarios all I
do is design the goal and the environment (eg, scenario is to rescue person
A from prison, I know where the prison is, how it is built, who is in
charge, etc). I haven't a clue how the group is going to achieve the goal.

So, what I'd do is set up the scenario so various characters abilities are
likely to come into play. If one of the characters is an ex Navy Seal (all
sorts of water related skills) I'd put the prison on an Island. If another
character was jungle trained, then the Island might well have a jungle on it,
if one character was wonderful at interacting with Koreans I'd make at least
one significant NPC Korean, etc (I'm somewhat exaggerating the extent that
I'd go to, you get the point).

What the players then do with all this is up to them.
From: batemanc@p4.cs.man.ac.uk (Mad Chris)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: Diceless or Senseless? Confession!
Date: 17 Aug 92 14:21:50 GMT

millerl@wharton.upenn.edu writes:

>> Yes, I'm a pedant. Just watch. If you had read the Principia Dicordia,
>> you would know there could not possibly be a pseudo-Discordian. There
>> is Discordian, and there is the rest of the world.

>That's right. Read what you wrote and think about it.

Sorry, I don't get your point here. If you choose to follow Eris, you are
( more than almost any other religion - save humanism or neozen, perhaps )
free to do what the hell you like. Discordianism embraces personal choice,
albiet in a somewhat perverted way.

Anyway, this is nothing to do with rpg's anymore, and I don't really want
to debate religion with you. Oh, by the way, whilst this is going into 
public forum, can I just ask whether advocacy was created to debate or to
let off steam by insulting people? Or both?

Relax, it's only life.

Mad Chris.
From: seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu (Sea Wasp)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: Chili Wars
Date: 13 Aug 92 15:47:59 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh
Originator: seawasp@pmax1.cis.pitt.edu

In article <13AUG199208381349@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov> spzkny@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (JAMES ZAKANY) writes:
>In article <4655@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP>,
> seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu (Sea Wasp) writes...

>Ever had Cincinnati "CHILI" fly boy?  Go to Skyline and order a "four-way". 
>You'll see what I mean.  By the way, I never pass up a chance to make fun 
>of Pittsburg, too!  'Bout the only city that a Clevelander can feel 
>comfortably superior to...

	Guess I underestimated the idiocy of Ohians, eh? No one can tell
the difference between Cincinnati and Cleveland, you know. But go ahead,
make fun of Pitt if you want; I just live here, I'm not foolish enough
to be a NATIVE.

>>	Ha. Having been across this country and through several others,
>>I can tell you straight out: there is no such THING as a REALLY spicy
>>buffalo wing.  They can't hold enough of the spices.

>In Pittsburg, they think nothing can compare to Iron City beer, too!
>I say, go to the Buffalo Brew Pub, order a meal of hot wings and a glass of 
>Amber (their own special brew) and enjoy a truly forkless meal...

	So, you drink BEER! No wonder you can't even tell what works and
doesn't work with food! Beer is a holdover from the unenlightened masses
who use it to wash down anything that gets in their mouths. It's just
club soda mixed with essence of rotted grain, and tastes that way, too.
Pure, non-bubbling water is the only proper beverage for enjoying 
your dinner.

>>	TACOs, on the other hand, CAN be hot enough, as can a good strong
>>bowl of chili. I prefer the convenience of TACOs, although you need special
>>house rule -- er, you need soft fried tortillas in order to properly 
>>experience them. 

>So, do you use a fork when you eat that or not?  Sounds like a bastard food 
>that could be eaten either way.  As such, it's probably inferior to both...

	NEVER use a fork on a TACO, they'll take it away from you and beat
you to death with it. TACOs are a forkless system of eating, but they 
have the tortilla as a means to maintain control of the system without
the messiness of the WINGS slobs. If you DO happen to spill some of the
filling, you can still avoid the messiness of hands direct by introducing
a corn CHIP mod to the system.


                                 Sea Wasp
                                   /^\
                                   ;;;
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: littlefield@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Subject: Re: marvel
Reply-To: littlefield@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Organization: Brandeis University
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 16:43:17 GMT

In article <marrou.714244942@eola.cs.ucf.edu>, marrou@cs.ucf.edu (Lance R. Marrou) writes:
>af2e+@andrew.cmu.edu (Alex Feely) writes:
>
>>Hello,
>>I just joined this bboard, but I'd like to say somthing. Has anyone
>>heard of MARVEL SUPER HEROES! I'm not looking for a game, right now I
>>play AD&D2, But this is a good game published by tsr, It's even been in
>>DRAGON magazine. It's high time people recognize it for what it is. It's
>>far SUPERior to any other comic role-playing system. 
>     ^^^^^^^^
>>                                                                        
>>         Sincerely,
>>                                                                        
>>     Alex Feely
>
>Not!!!  Champions is _much_ better!!
>
>--
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
>Lance R. Marrou
>   Work   - Marrou@IST.UCF.edu
>   School - Marrou@Eola.cs.UCF.edu

	Is this a joke? This is a joke, innit?

--"Nigel"

Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: ftsomers@cs.tcd.ie (fergal somers)
Subject: Re: Diceless vs Diced vs Fnord vs Jimmy Carter vs Superman
Organization: Trinity College, Dublin (Computer Science)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 14:15:42 GMT

In article <David_Braun.032v@panam.wimsey.bc.ca> David_Braun@panam.wimsey.bc.ca (David Braun) writes:
>10 REM David's Incredible Diced Game Simulator
>20 INPUT "WHAT IS YOUR NEXT ACTION? ";NA$
>30 DIEROLL = RND(1)
>40 REM Let the dice decide everything
>50 IF DIEROLL > .5 THEN PRINT "YOU SUCCEED."
>60 IF DIEROLL < .5 THEN PRINT "YOU FAIL."
>70 IF DIEROLL = .5 THEN PRINT "SOME KIND OF CRITICAL/FUMBLE HAPPENS."
>80 GOTO 20

AAARRRGH. Takes me back to my Spectrum 48k days (although this almost
but not entirely unlike real Spectrum Basic)

Gleep. Lets get the cure/smiths albums out and get that teenage angst
going again.

-- 
|boingboingboingboingboingboingboingboingboin~ Fergal  "no sleep till bedtime"|
|            A LEAP AHEAD                    ~ Somers.  ftsomers@cs.tcd.ie    |
|          THROUGH INSANITY                  ~ JEDER FUER SICH UND GOTT GEGEN |
|boingboingboingboingboingboingboingboingboin~ ALLES -  but always SKATE HARD |
Organization: Central Michigan University
Date: Sunday, 23 Aug 1992 07:38:01 EDT
From: <34ZBTXQ@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: RE: What's Wrong with SUPERS?

 GURPS Supers clearly states that the UB cost is optional; don't use it if you
don't like it.
 The Costume advantage is kinda dumb. I just give it free to anyone who has a
power that might roast their costume. It's overpriced at 20 points.
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: ratinox@splinter.coe.northeastern.edu (Richard Pieri/Stainless Steel Rat)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: What's Wrong with SUPERS?
Date: 20 Aug 92 16:27:47 GMT
Article-I.D.: splinter.RATINOX.92Aug20122747
Reply-To: ratinox@meceng.coe.northeastern.edu
Organization: 3WA, Boston Office. Or Nu Meta Chi. Take your pick.
In-reply-to: 34ZBTXQ@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU's message of 20 Aug 92 11:55:13 GMT
X-Get-A-Clue: Have two, they're small.
X-Signature-Virus-Protection: Version 1.51
X-Posting-Software: GNUS 3.14.1 [ NNTP-based News Reader for GNU Emacs ]

>>>>> "3" == 34ZBTXQ <34ZBTXQ@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU> writes:

3>  What is it that so many people hate about GURPS Supers?! I admit, it
3> ain't Champions, but it's not a bad supers game!
[...]
3> I haven't yet found a hero concept that I can't build with Supers, and
3> the injection of somewhat more "realistic" effects is interesting. So
                                  ^^^^^^^^^^^
3> what's the problem?

Supers, by my definition, are *not* realistic. GURPS Supers also puts too
much emphasis on points and mechanics. For example, it's the only game I
know of where you have to *pay points* just for a costume. For cryin' out
loud, why bother? Everyone gets one, so why charge them for it? Just to
make it indestructable? Superman's outfit ain't, and neither is Spider
Man's (Supe's mom made his and Spidey made his himself, both out of whole
cloth, as it were :-).

--Rat

||||| | | | |  |  |  |   |   |    |    |    |   |   |  |  |  |  | | | | | |||||
                                                   __        ___ 
Richard Pieri, Northeastern's Stainless Steel Rat/   | /| / /   | The Worlds
Internet: ratinox@meceng.coe.northeastern.edu   /__  |/ |/ / /| | Welfare Works
    UUCP: ...!northeastern.edu!meceng!ratinox  /   | /| / / / | | Association:
  BITNET: UA_RLP@NUHUB{.BITNET}               /__  |/ |/ / /  | | I will solve
  USNail: 14 Westdale RD  Holbrook, MA 02343 /   | /| / / /___| | any problem
 ICBMnet: 42 deg 1 min N, 71 deg 0 min W    /    |/ |/ /_//_____| for you.
From: doug@abby.chem.ucla.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: CHILI    LOYD
Date: 18 Aug 92 23:02:40 GMT
Reply-To: doug@abby.chem.ucla.edu
Organization: Department of Chemistry, UCLA

In article <1992Aug17.193722.2293@menudo.uh.edu>, white@tree.egr.uh.edu (Mitchell White) writes:
>     Hey there little buddy! Don't go and do something silly. I, personally,  
>can't thank you enough for your original column that got this thing started.  
>As someone else pointed out, the flaming here is mild compared with  
>elsewhere, and I've gotten a few laughs out of this which is more than I've  
>gotten out of the "Which system is best?" debate. Besides, why flog yourself,  
>when you can watch the Ohio kids flog each other? 
>     MLW

Yuh say thuh flamin' is mild?  That's 'cuz you ain't usin' enuff PEPPUHS,
boy.

B^) B^) B^) for the humor impaired


-Doug Gibson
 doug@abby.chem.ucla.edu

Neither UCLA nor the National Science Foundation has a clue what I am doing.
They just pay me to do it.

"We have to tear you to shreds because we care." - EAC
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: seurer@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (Bill Seurer)
Subject: Re: GURPS Total Rewrite
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 23:07:13 GMT
Reply-To: BillSeurer@vnet.ibm.com
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM Rochester

In article <1992Aug12.214923.27597@leland.Stanford.EDU>, bingcros@leland.Stanford.EDU (Richard Crosby) writes:
|> 
|> The most useless point sink that is usually "just for the sake of the
|> character" is Military Rank.  5 points per rank and the points go
|> quick.  Almost always useless, too.  Might be useful in a modern game
|> set in a country run by a military dictatorship, but it's never useful
|> in a game where you are separated from your military organization.
|> Kind of like paying for the advantage "Contact: NY police chief" when
|> the game is set in Egypt.

It would be totally useless until that time they try to sneak onto a
military base...

Why sneak when you're an officer?  Just walk right in!

P.S.  I agree wholeheartedly that GMs should reduce/increase/whatever
the cost of things that don't fit (or fit too well) their game.  Or
just ignore those points spent on Boating in your Dune campaign set on
Arrakis.

- Bill Seurer     Language and Compiler Development      IBM Rochester, MN
  Internet: BillSeurer@vnet.ibm.com    America On-Line: BillSeurer@aol.com
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: PCHEM14@Zeus.unomaha.edu (FALL88)
Subject: Re: What's Wrong with SUPERS?
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 05:53:43 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.11

In <1992Aug20.213528.7541@news.unomaha.edu> PCHEM14@Zeus.unomaha.edu writes:

> A few things don't make any sense to me.  Like unusual background.  In
> a supers game, why is this here?  The point is to be a super, not to
> see if you can encourage someone to play a normal with a large (50 to
> 250 points) point bribe.  If the cost of the powers are right in the
> first place, then why is this necessary?  It also leads to a cute 'ol
> paradox: I am playing a street supers game, where the players are the
> only supers of thier type.  250 pt characters, the rules recommend.
> Well, unusual background is 250 pts, leaving players with 0 pts.  So
> are you going to play 0 pt supers or 250 pt super-normals?  The real
> solution is simple: I, the GM, approve every character.  No matter if
> you can 'afford' it or not, you only play characters that fit in my
> world.  Simple.

My own error here, the unusual background cost is added to the intended
point base of the game, making, for example, IST superheros worth 650 
points apiece.  (GURPS Supers, page 5.)  However, I sorely disagree with
the author's contention that this is the best way to balance games.  First,
it says GURPS Supers isn't balanced.  Second, it's a wierd way to balance
the powers.  For example, why is the Unusual Background cost variable with
how common super-powers are?  This isn't a balance at all.  If it was, it
would be relative to something else (like the number of points of super-
powers) or a straight cost.  There is simply a limit to how valuable a
2d6 fireball is, no matter how rare it is.  It is not worth 262 points no
matter what, 262 points by itself is enough to build a *very* competent
normal (dare we say heroic) and a 2d6 crushing attack power just isn't a
comparison to that.  Unusual Background costs should be small, if they
are used at all.  25-50 pts tops.  And a flat cost too, not some scale
based on rarity.  However, really, if the powers were balanced in the 
first place, wouldn't all if this be unnecessary?  I feel it's a backward
way of approaching the problem.

-james
From: uc-chan@mcl.ucsb.edu (Christina Callihan)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: >>Put Up or Shut UP (Dice[less])
Date: 13 Aug 92 05:12:33 GMT

My apologies to all who got my truncated post...let's try that again.  :)

***********   

In <1992Aug11.012959.22593@u.washington.edu> rrn@milton.u.washington.edu (H++ Visser) writes:

>There seems to be this idea that people who don't like playing games w/o
>dice are some sort of neanderthal tribe, whose minds would be instantly
>enlightened if we tried one. Well, guess what? The idea isn't all that new.
>I don't know anyone who plays RPGs that hasn't done it once or twice. Most
>somehow missed the divine white light somehow. Maybe there's too much 
>background radiation where I live, or rain or something. 

There also seems to be this idea that people who are interested in the
concept of diceless roleplaying are on some holy crusade to "convert" all
the poor dice-using shlubs out there.  Puh-leeeeeze.

May I put forth a few propositions that I think most people can agree on
(and which have already been mentioned, but I think some are missing them)?

1)	Dice systems can be done well or badly.

2)	Diceless systems can be done well or badly.  

3)	Definitions of "well" or "badly" are largely a matter of PERSONAL
	TASTE AND OPINION.  

4)	If you don't like what you got, get what you like.  

5)	If you do like what you got, why bother defending it when you can
	enjoy it?

I am fully capable of enjoying both dice and diceless games, when they suit
my taste.  I do not demand that anyone else share my taste.  In short, I am
not trying to cram diceless down anyone's throat, so don't try to cram dice
down mine!  I'm just as free as you are to enjoy whatever kind of game or
playing style that I like.

I guess I just really don't see the point to these "discussions".  If they
can remain reasonably friendly, fine, but when they get venomous, why bother?
It is ALL IMO, or IYO, or I-somebody's-O, after all.  I really don't think
that anyone is out to melt down all the world's dice, or burn all the copies
of diceless systems, so why don't we just refrain from the trashfest and
play whatever the hell we want?


The AMBER player who actually has a life,

____________________________________________________________________________
If You Know What |     Christina M. Callihan     |  Doing STRANGE THINGS
 You're Doing,   |  AKA C-chan, Bwee, Chrystal-  |  in the name of Art,
   It's Not      |   Elf & Who Knows What Else   |  and STRANGER THINGS
   Research!     |       (I sure don't)          |    in the name of
 => => => => =>  |     uc-chan@mcl.ucsb.edu      |       CHOCOLATE
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
(The opinions in this post are not endorsed by the University of California
at Santa Barbara....THANK GOODNESS!!!!!!!!!  ;^}  )
From: millerl@wharton.upenn.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: Diceless or Senseless? Confession!
Date: 19 Aug 92 06:48:02 GMT
Organization: Newt World Order

In article <batemanc.714061310@p4.cs.man.ac.uk>, batemanc@p4.cs.man.ac.uk (Mad Chris) writes:
> Oh, by the way, whilst this is going into 
> public forum, can I just ask whether advocacy was created to debate or to
> let off steam by insulting people? Or both?

Uhuh.

I proposed it as an area for comparison and contrast of game systems
predicting that it would become a flame ghetto. It's been common
knowledge, as told in the administrative postings, that discussions
about the relative merits of different game systems almost always
degenerate into flame wars. Some people like those flame wars, others
don't, and .advocacy was created to keep them in their own spot and to
make .misc and .dnd kinder, gentler newsgroups without the constant
flames about Hero vs Gurps or xD&D vs the rest of the world or dice
versus diceless or all the other b.s. that drove people crazy in
rec.games.frp before the reorg.

I find it to be a useful group as long as people let out their hostility
in this group and mind their manners in the others. That's the best that
I think we can expect. If there were no hostility there would be no call
for .advocacy, and it never would have passed.

> Relax, it's only life.

Why wouldn't we relax, we're doing this for fun, right?

-- 
whoah,
+++++++++++++++++++++++23
Loren Miller                           internet: MILLERL@wharton.upenn.edu
The more corrupt the government, the greater the number of laws -- Tacitus
From: millerl@wharton.upenn.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: Diceless or Senseless? Confession!
Date: 15 Aug 92 01:58:59 GMT
Organization: Newt World Order

In article <batemanc.713803354@p4.cs.man.ac.uk>, batemanc@p4.cs.man.ac.uk (Mad Chris) writes:
> And notice that the acusation that all diceless people want the death
> of diced games is a misnomer, not perpetrated by me. And if that was all
> this discussion was, do you think it would have generated this volume
> of replies?

Hmmm. I thought you *did* say it, or at least imply it. Anyway, you ask
(I paraphrase) "if the dice war just past was based on the assumption
that the 'diceless people want the death of diced games' then why did it
go on so long?" Why? Because it's so insulting it pissed off everybody
who had any interest in diceless games, and so plausibly paranoid it
pissed off everybody who loves dice.

Don't underestimate our ability to get cranky if we think someone
insulted us, or our tendency to take paranoid fantasies seriously.

> Yes, I'm a pedant. Just watch. If you had read the Principia Dicordia,
> you would know there could not possibly be a pseudo-Discordian. There
> is Discordian, and there is the rest of the world.

That's right. Read what you wrote and think about it.


May this punch-line enlighten you as it did the young man in Camdem
Benares' Zen Story. "Some say he is a holy man. Others say he is a
shithead."

-- 
whoah,
+++++++++++++++++++++++23
Loren Miller                           internet: MILLERL@wharton.upenn.edu
The more corrupt the government, the greater the number of laws -- Tacitus
From: gharris@jade.tufts.edu (George W. Harris)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: sprinters revisited (was Re: GURPS Total Rewrite)
Date: 18 Aug 92 19:24:21 GMT
Organization: Tufts University - Medford, MA
Originator: gharris@jade.tufts.edu

In article <1992Aug18.070632.3146@news.unomaha.edu> PCHEM14@Zeus.unomaha.edu (FALL88) writes:
>
>Running seems to be a contest of ST and height overcoming weight, with HT
>preventing you from getting worn out too quickly.  I'd not include DX since
>you don't prove that these people have high DX, rather than that the maxima
>of (ST+height)/weight expression occurrs below the ST of a good linesman.

	Hmm.. you could probably simplify this a good bit.  Looking at Major
League Baseball, you see that most of the speedsters (people who steal lots
of bases, have good defensive range, hit plenty of triples) tend to not be
tall.  This tends to suggest that height is *not* a positive in running.  It
may be that these people are also less massive than their taller brethren, but
I'd bet that a 6'6" guy who weighs the same as a fast 5'6" guy wouldn't have
anywhere near the strength.

	Of course, all of these measures of running ability involve a high
degree of acceleration.  For accelerating, I'd look at power/mass, which could
probably be approximated by ST/weight, but for peak speed stride length would
also be important.  The guy who is fastest for 30 meters probably isn't the 
same guy wh is fastest for 400 meters, and neither of those would win the 
10,000m race.

>-james
--
"If you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce, they taste more like
prunes than rhubarb does."              -Groucho Marx 

gharris@jade.tufts.edu          George Harris, Tufts Univ. Dept. of Mathematics
From: uc-chan@mcl.ucsb.edu (Christina Callihan)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: Diceless or Senseless?
Date: 12 Aug 92 06:57:02 GMT

In <1992Aug11.134846.2202@orionsci> goodwin@orionsci (Ben Goodwin) writes:

[stuff snipped]  

>You know what I find interesting, its that you're implying that people who
>play diceless are anti dice.  I joined this thread because I saw alot of
>people stating that diceless is bad.  I don't think I've said dicey is
>bad.  I've said diceless isn't and that there are some advantages to diceless
>over dicey.  I think that most of the people on the diceless side play
>dicey games and that they are just defending another style that they also
>play from the "I hate diceless cause its stupid" crowd.

>Check the pro diceless posters names.  I know that at least two of them
>are avowed SRun people and I'm sure many of the others play other evil
>dice controlled games. :)

>You missed the point, or I did.  This is a defense of diceless thread not
>an attack on dicey.  Just check the title!

Preeee-cisely.  I thank you for making this point.  People, I play dice
RPGs A LOT.  I _enjoy_ dice RPGs.  I also happen to enjoy AMBER, a
diceless RPG.  Different strokes.

So let's all quit peeing on each other's trees, hmmmmm?  :)


____________________________________________________________________________
If You Know What |     Christina M. Callihan     |  Doing STRANGE THINGS
 You're Doing,   |  AKA C-chan, Bwee, Chrystal-  |  in the name of Art,
   It's Not      |   Elf & Who Knows What Else   |  and STRANGER THINGS
   Research!     |       (I sure don't)          |    in the name of
 => => => => =>  |     uc-chan@mcl.ucsb.edu      |       CHOCOLATE
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

(The opinions in this post are not endorsed by the University of California
at Santa Barbara....THANK GOODNESS!!!!!!!!!  ;^}  )