HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: drury@helix.nih.gov (Richard Drury)
Subject: Re: Car jacking
Organization: National Institutes of Health, Bethesda
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 21:59:24 GMT

dkm@cci632.cci.com (Don Morrill) writes:
>Questions:
>If the kid had gotten into my car with the claw hammer, what actions could
>I have taken. I have a very small car with a low roof so an overhand attack
>from the punk with the hammer is ruled out. With my limited MA training, the
>best I could come up with is either a fist to the groin as he entered the car
>or perhaps a palm-heel strike to the nose with a hito(sp?) to the side of
>the neck (brachial plexis???).

Just get out.  Chances are, he wants your car, not you.  Hope
that the police recover your car, but if they don't, have the
insurance company buy you a new one.  Property just isn't worth
getting seriously injured over, so why take the chance?  If he
comes after you anyway, now you have superior position and range
of motion.  He has to get out of the car, and it's going to be a
lot harder than he thinks.

>If the kid did strike me with the hammer and make me drive off with his
>friends following, what then. Jump from the car and let it drive off
>uncontrollably, possibly hitting a bystander? Ride it out for a while and
>hope for the best? Continue to attack the youth who already has struck me
>at least once?

I doubt it would go down that way.  These guys want your car, not
you.  The first thing you would get told is to get out, which
fits in just fine with plan A above.  If I *had* to drive, I
guess I would try to make it an interesting ride.  Once up to 
lethal speed, he is going to have a problem making you do much of
anything without risking his own skin.  The longer he waits, the 
closer you get to a nice busy part of town.  Police substations 
are good too.  And don't forget the maniacal laugh.  Our little
friend should understand that he has just climbed into the car
with G. Gordon Liddy's evil twin.
--
Richard A. Drury
drury@helix.nih.gov
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: dsmythe@netcom.com (Dave Smythe)
Subject: Re: The FAQ: a modest (but serious) proposal
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 02:32:07 GMT

In article <Bz47FL.953@apollo.hp.com> stave@apollo.hp.com writes:
>It sounds great, but it seems to me that the the original
>(unofficial) FAQ would make an awfully good starting point.
>Does anyone have a copy of this mythical beast?

Here's version 1.3, the last that I saved.

------------------------------------------------------------

From netcomsv!decwrl!usenet.coe.montana.edu!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!bronze!sunnie.huji.ac.il!izar Sun Dec  1 12:52:57 PST 1991
Article: 11807 of rec.martial-arts
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: villard@venus.cc.hollandc.pe.ca (Excuse me sir...What does this core meltdown light mean)
Subject: Karatemania 5
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Holland College - Charlottetown PEI
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 13:14:00 GMT

I recently seen Karatemania 5 here in Canada, Jean-Yves Theriault 
regained his title (that he lost because he retired from a fight with 
a back injury). Rick Roufus knocked out Jersey Long(by the way Rick is 
a hell of a nice guy and a great partier)

I was appalled by the antics of Leo DeSnoo, Theriaults opponent. Now I 
am biased because Jean-Yves is a very good friend of mine, and don't 
get me wrong, out of the ring DeSnoo and his trainer are the nicest 
people you'd want to meet, but he kept throwing leg kicks.  At one 
point he even trapped Jean-Yves leg, and swept him.  That might be all 
fine and well in Thai kickboxing, but if you want to fight in the PKA 
then learn the rules.  Although Jean-Yves was ahead on points, the 
fight was stopped due to the leg attacks.  Theriault was called the 
victor.  

Anyhow I just feel that people should get their acts together a fight 
within the rules.

Kent
villard@venus.cc.holland.pe.ca
respond with your opinions on anything
From: brad@SSD.CSD.HARRIS.COM (Brad Appleton)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Agreed: rec.martial-arts hierarchy
Date: 20 Dec 92 21:50:33 GMT
Organization: Harris Computers Systems Division, Fort Lauderdale,FL
NNTP-Posting-Host: hcx1.ssd.csd.harris.com

I agree with Stephen. I think splitting this group up would be a big
mistake!  Its not too difficult (IMHO) to sort out the articles you
want if you are interested strictly in TKD or Aikido or Judo (assuming
your newsreader supports threads).  I also feel that the input from
people studying MAs other than my own is invaluable and adds many
insights that I wouldnt (or couldnt) have thought of coming from my
background. It helps make me aware of other alternatives, other
ways of thinking, and other philosophies of fighting and I personally
feel that we are all much richer (intellectually) because of it.

I would consider it a tremendous loss if this breakup were to occur!!!


______________________ "And miles to go before I sleep." ______________________
 Brad Appleton           brad@ssd.csd.harris.com       Harris Computer Systems
                            uunet!travis!brad          Fort Lauderdale, FL USA
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Disclaimer: I said it, not my company! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: twcaps@dante.lbl.gov (Terry Chan)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: ki and science
Date: 16 Dec 1992 05:29:27 GMT
Organization: Department of Redundancy Department
Reply-To: TWChan@lbl.gov (Terry Chan)
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.13.76

bburgar@cix.compulink.co.uk and drury@helix.nih.gov (Richard Drury) writes:
  +>
  +>Mmmn... what would a device that measures ki be called?
  +>
  +>A Kiometer,
  +>A Kido,
  +>A Kimeter,
  +>A Kimomitor
  +>A Kimoscope....  ?????
  +
  +Uke.

Kibo?


Terry "What?  That's taken?" Chan
--
Energy and Environment Division   | Internet:  TWChan@lbl.gov
Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory      | 
Berkeley, California  USA  94720  | Carpe Per Diem
From: krause@hpindda.cup.hp.com (Mike Krause)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: "Bloodsport" questions
Date: 17 Dec 92 15:39:20 GMT
Organization: HP Information Networks, Cupertino, CA

/ hpindda:rec.martial-arts / durway@mpd.tandem.com (Lindsey Durway) /  1:12 pm  Dec  9, 1992 /

>- The African fellow who did the monkey style of fighting (monkey-do?):
>Is that a real style?  What part of Africa?  It was a damn good
>imitation of a chimp.  Are there in fact formal traditional martial
>arts in Africa?  

Formal has many meanings.  Africa has thousands of tribes who have lived
for thousands of years fighting for survival against the environment and
against each other.  So, there are probably quite a few martial systems
in existance.  As for the movie, I thought I read that Paulie Zink, a well
known Chinese monkey practicioner was in the movie and had something to do
with the gentleman in question.


>- The death touch that Van Damme did--there was a stack of bricks,
>and he struck the top brick and broke just the bottom brick.  Is this
>for real?  What's it called?  Is the technique found only in a few
>styles, or is it common to a number of styles?  Can any of you gurus
>out there in net.land do it?

They refered to it as Dim Mak, which is an art dealing with pressure
points.  What they showed in the movie with a trick involving shims 
placed on the bricks that allow a person to break any brick below 
depending on where the strike occurs.  The brick in the movie was 
nothing more than a prop designed to break as shown.  Could anyone
do this stunt?  Probably yes, if they understood the placement of the
shims and such.  Bricks placed on top of one another with gaps in between
are difficult to break, but it can be done.  One of my instructors used
to place a brick on a concrete floor and sit down next to it and simply
break it into small pieces - all of the bricks broke, not just the
bottom one.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Dance Notatation
From: ttrimble@eagle.wesleyan.edu
Date: 16 Dec 92 11:47:18 EST
Organization: Wesleyan University

In article <1992Dec15.233127.13718@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>, esh6h@fulton.seas.Virginia.EDU (Erik Scot Hatcher) writes:
> 
> Hello!
> 
> I'm a martial artist and I've looking to document some of
> my moves (forms,katas, etc).
> 
> I've heard of a dance notation that is used to put the
> moves on paper.
> 
> Anybody in net land know of this?  Can you-mail me or
> post to rec.martial-arts if you have any information on
> this.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 		Erik Hatcher

i have studied Laban movement analysis, which is a system for movement notation
and (of course) analysis.  i found the courses i took to be very benificial to
my dancing, my choreography and my martial arts training.  i feel, however,
that this style of movent notation has severe limitations.  it does not (as
others have already commented) help very much when describing hand gestures and
other intricate movements and it takes a long time before you can become
"fluent" enough in Laban terms to actually notate movement (like a dance or a
MA form).  i do not use this notation to help me remember forms and i rarely
even use it in writting down my choreography.  you should not read from all of
this that i do not think that learning Laban movement analysis (lma) is useless
or a waste of your time.  i feel that it has helped me tremendously, just not 
in the area of writting things down.  with the terms and ideas i have gotten 
from "lma" have helped me greatly is learning and teaching movement (both dance
and martial arts).  learning "lma" will help you diferentiate between different
types of movement and different qualities within that movement.  these are
things that are often hard to see and harder to articulate.  taking a few
courses in some style of movement analysis would IMHO help anyone in their own
study of martial arts and in their ability to teach what they know to others.
					just my $.02 worth
		  
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: gummitch@techbook.com (Jeff Frane)
Subject: Re: Aikido Question (no, this is not a poll...)
Organization: TECHbooks of Beaverton Oregon - Public Access Unix
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 22:01:48 GMT

wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) writes:

>In article <1g38kuINNfh0@master.cs.rose-hulman.edu> acharya@HYDRA.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU writes:
>>has anyone been in a similar situation? i would like to hear your comments/

>	Poor guy hasn't learned to be uke yet.  Try working the technique
>very very slowly.  Tell him you really need to work on this and so you need to
>go very slowly and lightly.  As you proceed feel for the points where his
>resistance is and explore how you get stuck/go around his strength.  Don't
>worry at all about throwing him.  
>									wr

I think this is the best advice I've seen yet in response to this
question.  Use this person has an opportunity to explore your own
technique and relax.  Since this person probably has the same problem
when he is nage, there's another opportunity -- to work on your own
ukemi.

The one thing I would *not* do is spend too much time -- or any --
talking to him about his "problem".  If there is a problem, it's up to
your sensei to point it out, IMO, and up to you simply to work with it.

--Jeff Frane


-- 
gummitch@techbook.COM  Public Access UNIX at (503) 220-0636 (1200/2400) 


Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: mshimer@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Mike Shimer)
Subject: Silat
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 21:28:54 GMT

I've read this news group for a while but never felt complied to post 
somthing until someone said Silat was like a mix between Tae Kwon Do and 
Bok Fu?  
First of all according to Herman Suwanda there are around 200 styles of Silat 
in Indonesia.  So they're might be a style that looks like TKD. I really doubt
it, cos most arts in Phillipines and Indonesia don't use high kicks due to  
the availability of a knife, which rules out high kicks altogether, unless
you like getting your arteries and nerves cut... anyway....
What does it look like?  It's kinda hard to explain.  The only stuff I've 
seen, and it doesn't look ANYTHING like TKD, is from Pendekar Paul DeThours, 
Pendekar Herman Suwanda, The blend of Silat arts that Dan Inosanto does 
at seminars and the stuff my instructor in Indianapolis does, a lot of which 
is from Suryadi Jafri. All the Silat I've seen is very efficient, effective 
and to the point.  When it's done in dance form some might look at it and 
think "that looks stupid you can't fight with that."  Then when you see/feel 
what those moves actually do you don't feel that way any more.  I've been 
thrown so fast before that, even though I was in a good postition to, I 
didn't have time to breakfall.  That is quick.  A lot of times you don't 
end up in a nice side fall position you land on you side in an awkward 
position.  There is one technique in Harimau Silat that if applied would 
dislocate your shoulder AND rip your knee out of socket before 
you hit the ground. It's pretty brutal stuff. Thats one reason some 
instructors don't teach publically.  

	-Mike Shimer, Bloomington IN    
	 mshimer@silver.indiana.edu

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: plumpton@wampyr.cc.uow.edu.au (David Plumpton)
Subject: Re: Finishing techniques
Organization: University Of Wollongong
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 02:17:22 GMT

schan@birch.srg.af.mil (Stephen Chan x4485) writes:

>In article <1992Dec13.220443.26287@cc.uow.edu.au> plumpton@wampyr.cc.uow.edu.au (David Plumpton) writes:
>>My Karate Sensei has told us a couple of times that a sufficiently enraged,
>>drugged or mentally handicapped person can escape from *any* form of joint
>>lock or hold by simple brute force.

>	How does this statement sound: "any sufficiently enraged, drugged or
>mentally handicapped person can survive a _single_ Karate strike"?
>	Aren't you using an unfair basis of comparison here?

I don't think I'm being unfair, as I'm only referring to joint locks.

>	I suggest that your Sensei, while an expert at Karate, isn't
>necessarily an expert in locking/pinning techniques. If you're good at what
>you do, then as soon as someone squirms out of pin #1, you herd them into
>pin #2, and so on, until you nail them down with one (or decide to be nasty and
>break something).

I'll have to stand up for him here, although I admit I have little basis for
comparison. His joint techniques seem to be extremely impressive. He is
certainly capable of switching techniques as you describe. Our Karate style
puts quite a bit of emphasis on them.

>> He told us a story about some extremely
>>pleasant businessman who would become a total psycho after two drinks in a 
>>bar, and have to be restrained. He says that he got a perfect joint lock
>>on this guy immediately (and when he does a joint lock, it's pretty
>>awesomely effective in my experience), but the guy managed to lift him off
>>the ground "like a dry twig".

>	A *very* important aspect of a properly applied lock is that it leaves
>your opponent unable to apply their strength - you aren't just applying pain
>to some limb, you are using a single limb to control the entire framework of
>your opponent's body. If you manage to carry off, you can control your
>opponent like a big rag doll.

I think my Sensei's point is that under some conditions, pain won't affect
some people.

>> My Sensei must mass at least 85 kilos.
>>He went on to say that the only way to deal with such a person is to choke
>>them, no air no fight.

>	As a matter of fact, I know a Hapkido instructor who successfully
>gained control of and pinned a PCP'ed assailant for about 15 minutes, until
>the police came. He claims that while the guy had lots of strength, it was very
>"shallow", and *extremely* easy to manipulate him.

Perhaps he was still affected by pain?
-- 
/------------------------------\ /-------------------------------\
I       David Plumpton          I     There is a holy trinity:    |
I plumpton@wampyr.cc.uow.edu.au I N Tesla, R Feynman and C Sagan  |
\------------------------------/ \-------------------------------/
From: sog@craycos.com (Steve Gombosi)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Judo Esoterica
Date: 16 Dec 92 20:24:38 GMT
Organization: Cray Computer Corporation

In article <1992Dec16.112755.5720@ms.uky.edu> taddiken@ms.uky.edu (scott taddiken) writes:
>Geoff Gleeson, sometime coach of the British national team, visited the
>archives of the Kodokan as a special student, and has verified to his
>satisfaction that this is not the way the throw was done by Kano or his
>early students, in performance of the kata.  Rather, they remained
>standing through the entire movement, and there was one other crucial
>subtlety: As the throwee pushed strongly, stepping with his right foot,
>the thrower took a quick step forward with _his_ right foot, toward
>throwee's left side.  Then he stepped back and around with his left foot,

Sort of an "inside tenkan"????

Makes sense to me, but I'm not a judoka.

Steve
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts,rec.arts.dance,rec.folk-dancing
From: klong@sura.net (K.A. Long)
Subject: Re: Dance Notatation
Organization: SURAnet, College Park, MD, USA, NA, Earth, Milky Way
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 13:09:56 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.233127.13718@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> esh6h@fulton.seas.Virginia.EDU (Erik Scot Hatcher) writes:
>
>Hello!
>
>I'm a martial artist and I've looking to document some of
>my moves (forms,katas, etc).
>
>I've heard of a dance notation that is used to put the
>moves on paper.
>
>Anybody in net land know of this?  Can you-mail me or
>post to rec.martial-arts if you have any information on
>this.
>
>Thanks,
>
>		Erik Hatcher


Labanotation is used in many fields to document movement (synchronized
swimming, gymnastics, ice skating, etc.).  I took a semester long
course and only brushed the surface.  With the arm and hand movements
that are so important in martial arts (even down to the fingers) I 
imagine it would take an experienced Notator to do what you are asking.
There is a Mac based program that would make it easier to document but
you have to know what it all means, first.

klong
From: gatenby@v2.cgu.mcc.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Finishing techniques
Date: 15 Dec 92 16:44:28 GMT
Organization: Manchester Computing Centre CGU

Todd Ellner writes:
> What techniques would you use if you _really_ had to stop someone?
> If the proverbial 7'-300lb-PCP using-steroid monkey-whose spent half
> his life in Folsom prison-and wants to rip your lungs out was in the
> alley with you and you could set up one or two shots what would they
> be? No guns or knives allowed.

His eyes (my fingers)
His knees (my feet)
His groin (my fist)
His groin (my feet)

 Neil Gatenby, Computer Graphics Unit,	| Email: gatenby@uk.ac.mcc.cgu.v2
 University of Manchester,		| Tel: (+44)61 275 6095
 Manchester M13 9PL, England.		| Fax: (+44)61 275 6040
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 	     Strive to Survive, Causing Least Suffering Possible
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: drury@helix.nih.gov (Richard Drury)
Subject: Re: Moving to Raleigh, North Carolina
Organization: National Institutes of Health
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 05:45:23 GMT

Gordon.Wormser@launchpad.unc.edu (Gordon Wormser) writes:
>shawmd@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Michael D Shaw) writes: 
>>Well I finally got a job, so its off to Raleigh, North Carolina I go. Anyway 
>>anyone have recommendations for instructors who teach either Wing Chun,Aikido,
>>Tai Chi, or Kendo in the Raleigh-Carey-Durham area
>.
>[snip]
>
>The Martial Arts Center 
>Address:  328 West Morgan Street,
>          Raleigh, NC 27601 
>Phone:    (919) 834-1133 
>Sensei:  John Lamont, Godan
>Weapons:  Jo/Bokken kata (alike and mixed) 
>Style:  Hombu 
>Affiliat:  Aikido Association of America (Shihan Fumio Toyoda)

I've trained with Lamont and friends.  If you like your Aikido
tough, practical and potentially effective against real bad
guys, you can't do better than working with this group.
Actually, the opportunity to train there is a pretty good reason
to move to Raleigh all by itself.
--
Richard A. Drury
drury@helix.nih.gov
From: twcaps@tennyson.lbl.gov (Terry Chan)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Drugs & Fighting (was Finishing techniques)
Date: 16 Dec 1992 23:47:13 GMT
Organization: Department of Redundancy Department
Distribution: york
Reply-To: TWChan@lbl.gov (Terry Chan)
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.12.117

peterf@ariel.yorku.ca (Peter Forth) writes:
 +
 +Once my old instructor told me a story about two guys who he used to know
 +who would take Acid before sparring with each other.  He tried sparring with
 +them once and discovered that although neither opponent was very skilled while
 +off the drug, while the drug was in effect, their awareness approached the
 +level of a good blackbelt.  Of course it goes without saying that the more
 +aware you are in a fight (of yourself, your opponent, your surroundings etc) 
 +the better you'll do.

Without casting any doubt on your instructor's veracity one way or 
the other, this thread is coming close to a once commonly held idea 
that drugs (alcohol, heroin, etc.) enhances creativity/productivity/
ability.  I have my doubts.  After all, on an acid trip, you might
start reacting to perceived threats and start going after mutant 
toilets or something, but I guess you never know.

Awareness is something, but if you can't do anything about it, I
think it tends to feed fear and paranoia.

Terry
--
Energy and Environment Division   | Internet:  TWChan@lbl.gov
Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory      | 
Berkeley, California  USA  94720  | Carpe Per Diem
From: snorthc@relay.nswc.navy.mil (Stephen Northcutt - K31)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: strangleholds, length of time to work, and which are dangerous.
Keywords: strike or strangle
Date: 11 Dec 92 19:40:09 GMT
Reply-To: snorthc@relay.nswc.navy.mil
Organization: Naval Surface Warfare Center

--------------------------------------------------------------
Scott Taddiken writes:
I'd like to ask a little more about this "thump" to the neck which knocks a 
person unconcious.  The explanation that was given was that the blood backs up
and then bangs into the brain, knocking him out.  Well, if that were the case,
then wouldn't I pass out some of the time when I managed to evade a powerful
"poke choke" just in time (in judo competition)?  I don't doubt that one might
knock an opponent unconcious with a strike to the neck, especially if some of
y'all have done it, but this business about it being a quarter-second strangle
seems unlikely.


If you are referring to what I wrote, it is more a stunner than a knockout
as I understand.  I have had my knees buckle, but regained control before I
dropped.  I have seen a person dropped with this technique, but it was an
accident, she was new to MA and not yet in "fighting" shape.  Still the
couple seconds you are stunned is PLENTY of time for bad things to happen
to you.

I can't really evaluate your "poke choke" comment, I did my best to describe
the strike I mean, and how it works.  I have learned it in other places
than just from my Police buddy (at Seongs TKD academy it is self defense
move 1, but we don't explain the details till later).

> but this business about it being a quarter-second strangle seems unlikely.
I didn't post nothing about a quarter second (I don't think) but I am here
to tell you the throat strikes I mentioned work fast.

Please note though, most of the people are talking about grabbing the throat,
I am talking about striking it, big difference.

Now per strangles, my point is simply if someone gets ahold of your throat
bad things can happen.

Finally, I wonder, who all was taught the windpipe attack, where
you put your 4fingers together in a knife strike, the thumb on the
opposite side about an inch apart from the fingers and strike with the fingers
parallel to and just outside of the windpipe.  Definately one to avoid receiving!  

================== We Design and Build Fine Networks ===================
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