From: wbarnes@sura.net (Bill Barnes)
Subject: Re: Japanimation reviews con't (may contain SPOILERS)
Organization: SURAnet, College Park, MD, USA, NA, Earth, Milky Way
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 18:49:08 GMT

In article <n11b1t@ofa123.fidonet.org> Kevin.Kline@ofa123.fidonet.org writes:
> HD> Probably.  There is no difference between porno with humans
> HD> in them and porno with anime girls and guys in them.
>OK OK OK... I know that there is Lesbian character in "Roseanne" (for
>American TV example) but there is never any actuall kissing or anything sexual
>done like in the one Japanimation I saw where 2 girls were KISSING each other 
>at the beginning and in bed with each other!!!

OK, couple of points Kev:

1)	Ever watch L.A. Law?  They had a lesbian (or potentially lesbian at
	least - didn't stick with it to find out) relationship in it a couple
	of years back.  They were *gasp* kissing!  No stunt doubles, no
	rubber lips, nothing!  Don't know if there was a sex scene, but
	anyway, homosexuality is still a relatively new topic, but it has
	cropped up in America's entertainment media every now and then.

2)	Think of the "hot two girl action!" anime as basically a porn film
	and live with it.  If that bothers you, too bad - they're not trying
	to cater to you, so why should they care?

3)	You obviously don't approve of homosexuality - any particular
	reason you don't fess up and say, "This bothers me" rather than
	going into diatribes?  You're begging for a serious flaming from
	any gay rights activist.

>I for one just don't want to see animation go into the garbage can with
>lesbians kissing each other.  Any animator who has to WASTE time in drawing up
>saucered-eye lesbians for prono animation really has to be sick.

Well then, why don't you not waste your time on them?  Do you get all worked
up about porn movies?  Or since they're live action, you don't care?

[I'm not even going to bother arguing about "alternative lifestyles" and
"respecting the beliefs of others" with you...]

>And if that 
>stuff is passed off as "quality stuff", that spells trouble and it can and
>will backfire against the animation industry as a whole.  

Whoa.  Backtrack.  When did anyone *ever* try to pass off such obvious
sexploitation anime as "quality stuff?"  Wasn't me.  Any of you people?

No one is claiming that all anime is wonderful - it has its share of
crap just like everything else.  We obviously get into differences of
opinion over what it worthy of merit.  

>Animation in my opinion is something special (afterall it take lots and lots 
			    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>of drawn pictures to do a feature) and it is sad when they have to draw up
>prono animation (especailly lesbians) or make junk with lots of blood and gore
>without redeming value.

You persist in clinging to your belief that animation is somehow (or
should be) a more "innocent" or "pristine" medium than, say,
live-action movies - your attitude towards violence in animation
proves that.  That's your call.  But it would be appreciated if you
stopped acting like you expect the rest of us to agree with you.  We
are not impressed.

>Animation unlike other mediums (i.e. live-action movies) is not quite
>established yet in terms of stability and the continuing of showing garbage as
>animation (i.e. girls with guns) will turn off people to animation in general 
>and it will hurt the animation industry in the long run.  Using animation for 
>prono is sad, and if that is what will be called mature, we are all in
>trouble.  This doesn't seem to be the case right now, and lets hope it doesn't
>go in that direction.

"Not quite established?"  Animation has been around since *at least* the
1910s - I wouldn't be surprised if some deranged cartoonist, eyes agleam,
was experimenting since the camera was invented, or before ("I've invented...
THE FLIPBOOK!!").  That's almost as long as live-action have been around.
Seems pretty well-established to me.

And lest you think using sex/nudity is a relatively new thing, I'll
remind you that some of Edison's early "films" (if that's what you
want to call them) involved nekkid women.  We won't bother tracing its
roots in other media, but suffice it to say, as someone else said, sex
sells and it continually appears in every medium.  It's a topic of
continual interest and its treatment can range from intellectual
analysis to dirty old men drooling over pictures of prepubescent
girls.  If you don't like it, tough eggs - just try to make it go away!

Also, you still persist in your claims that bad anime will hurt the animation
industry.  Bad anime may hurt anime here in America, but I don't see how
any other animators, especially Disney, would really give a damn.

> It's kind of like video games and CD-ROM players, many people are willig to
>buy CD-ROM players for better video games and that will help.  But alas the
>same saucered-eye look in most CD-ROM games has hurt already and people are
>already selling off their CD-ROM players (which will hurt video game
>advacement).  More on this in rec.video.games and a lot later on.

????  I fail to follow that line of reasoning...

[Happy CD-ROM owner browses through video games.  SUDDENLY! his eyes
bulge out as they graze across a cover!]  "Good lord, what's this?!
They look like...like...cartoons!  With big eyes!  With funky white
specs in them!  AIIIIIIIEEEEE!!!"  [His brain twisting spastically,
the CD-ROM drive owner promptly sells off his CD-ROM drive in order to
save what's left of his irreperably damaged sanity.  He is
unfortunately reduced to drooling and watching Smurfs reruns.]

I...don't think so.
-- 
-----------------------
William Barnes		SURAnet Operations
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Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation