HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: AS.GGG@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gwyn Gordon)
Subject: re: mechanical hackamores
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 16:37:01 GMT

>>If you came across a 15-year-old jumper that had tons of talent
but had
>>been misused in the past, would you put it out to pasture because it
>>wouldn't do the jumpers in a hollow snaffle?
>
>No, I wouldn't.  I would find a bit or headgear that it goes well in,
>or at least better in, and I would retrain it.  Horses are retrained
>all the time from past abuses and many become quiet and reliable.
>Karen Karlsson posted about her half-Arab that she is currently
>retraining, he no longer tosses his head because of fear of bad hands.

I don't think we were talking about head-tossing. We were talking
about, um, the horse that was strong on the trail and whether or not
she should change to a stronger bit during competition? I think?

Yes, horses are to some extent retrainable. Something occured to me:
with a horse that has bad habits, the idea is to 1) do training at
home, 2) reinforce the training at shows (don't let them get away
with it in the show environment) and then 3) bring the two closer
and closer together. Duh, I can't say this well. I mean, I would
start out riding that horse in a different bit at shows, and then as
the horse got better and better, I would decrease and
decrease the strength of the bit at shows until I was using the same
bit for both schooling and showing. SLOWLY decreasing the disparity
between the two situations. Of course, this could take a lifetime,
but it would be worth it.


>        Yes but why change those aids for a show when the horse is
>going properly in training.  You'll just confuse them.

same aids + more bit = same response, but more of it
     ****        ***

different aids + any bit, same or different = confusion
          ****


>pointers and the horse will understand that just because it is a
>show they cannot get away with things.

Yeah, very important. Smart little buggers, aren't they?


>        The requirement for 4th level and above, which includes FEI
>(Olympic) level is that the horse be ridden in a double bridle, the
>bradoon must be of either straight, jointed, or french mouth snaffle,
                                                 ************

What's a french mouth? Sorry if this has been explained before. Is
that one with 2 joints, what I call a "breaking bit"? I'd appreciate
knowing this.

I'm also interested to know why upper-level dressage is done in a
double bridle, whereas lower levels are done in a plain snaffle.
Does this mean that the amount of collection/control needed is too
difficult (or impossible?) to get in a snaffle?  This would seem to
suggest that the horses aren't well-schooled enough, if we're going
to be critical.  That doesn't make sense, though, because the double
bridle is the "classic." PLEASE HELP THIS POOR HUNTER/JUMPER RIDER
UNDERSTAND. It's very interesting to me.

-gwyn
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: Hunt Seat Hand position
From: sbishop@desire.wright.edu
Date: 13 Aug 92 22:09:52 EST
Organization: Wright State University 

In article <16efrkINNkjo@hpsdde.sdd.hp.com>, regard@sdd.hp.com (Adrienne Regard) writes:
> In article <1992Aug13.121729.3423@desire.wright.edu> sbishop@desire.wright.edu writes:
>>
>>I need some assistance from some of you 'hunt seat' people out there.
>>
>>are showing in hunt classes with their hands in the 'doggie paw' position,
>>very low on the withers.  These people seem to be winning.  Since I am
>>helping my girl friend's daughters with their riding, I was telling them
>>to ride the way I have been trained.  Is this just a local thing?  Should
>>I change my technique?
> 
> 
> Ask some judges in the area.  They can tell you if the regional/local 
> standards have changed, or have any say on this point.  Some things are just
> taste, and tastes change.  Some things are written into the rule books.
> Since the judges are making the judgements, they are the ones to answer
> you with authority.

Well, I don't have a whole lot of confidence in a lot of the judges around 
here.  And usually going up to a judge at a show is next to impossible, they
are busy judging the classes, my kid might be in the next class and other
parents get very huffy if you talk to the judge while the show is still
going on.  (You might be currying favor, sucking up, etc.)  I was just 
curious if this might be a local fad or if anyone else out there has seen
this hand position.  BTW, all of these people were on QHs.

Sue
> 
> Adrienne Regard
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: sknopp@vax (KNOPP, SHERRON)
Subject: Re: Bowed tendon, sniff
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Williams College Center for Computing
Distribution: na
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 00:22:00 GMT

In article <1992Aug21.170101.22881@gvl.unisys.com>, red@prc.unisys.com writes...
>Before I get to the bowed tendon part, I have to give you a little
>background.
> 
>After saving up for a few years, I bought a very flashy grey quarter
>horse mare who had racked up the points in Western Pleasure competitions.
>She passed her vet check, and went lame 3 days later with what was finally
>diagnosed as navicular.  The dealer who sold her to me took her back and
>gave me a not-so-flashy but sturdy Morgan mare instead.  
> 
>For about six months we had bi- or tri-weekly trail rides, with moderate
>trotting, cantering, and jumping an occasional small log.  Then I moved
>her to pasture board at a farther distance from the trails I like the most,
>so daily rides became a little longer and involved jumping two 2-ft obstacles
>to get to the trails.  After two weeks of this kind of riding, my Morgan
>had a bowed tendon.  

>The vet says it will take six months before anyone should get on her, and
>then it's a long recovery process until she'll be ready for even the moderate
>riding I was doing before minus the jumping.
> 
>The dealer who sold her to me has offered to buy her back for exactly the
>amount of money a meat dealer would give, which indicates what he'd do with
>her if I accepted that offer.  

Wow--without knowing any more than what you've posted, I find myself
wondering about the integrity of the dealer and the competency of the vet.
Navicular is NOT hard to diagnose--and what the dealer is now offering
you sounds like blackmail.  I'd want the full purchase price back that
I'd paid on the original "flashy" horse--and I'd go to a more reputable/
reliable dealer/trainer.  (But I hope there are things I don't know that
would make this a less disturbing tale.)

SHerron
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: woit@qucis.queensu.ca (Denise Woit)
Subject: hunt seat equitation
Organization: Computing & Information Science, Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 17:30:22 GMT

Hi,
I sold my last horse 10 years ago and haven't ridden much since then, 
but reading this newsgroup has inspired me to begin hunt seat lessons.

I had my first lesson this week, and I am confused.

When I took lessons as a child (in the dark ages) I was told to point
my toes straight ahead, to grip with my knees, and to post from the
knees. The lower leg was against the horse, but not gripping, and was
free to move back for certain leg aids (to make the horse bend, etc.)
This is how I rode 10 years ago and I did very well in hunt seat
and western equitation classes at the time (although I used longer 
stirrups, and refrained from posting in the western classes :-)

When I went to this lesson, the instructor  said that my toes and 
knees should point out, that I should always be gripping with the
lower leg, and that I should post from the lower leg, not knees.
(As you have probably guessed, I joined a lesson that was working
on the posting trot.)

What happened? I can only think of two explanations: Either my 
instructor is a nut-bar, or something has changed since I was a kid.
I am leaning towards believing that something has changed.
Can someone tell me if this is really how people ride now, and why it
is better?
Thanks,
					...Denise Woit
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: alan_c@cix.compulink.co.uk (Alan Chapman)
Subject: Re: synthetic saddles
Cc: alan_c@cix.compulink.co.uk
Reply-To: alan_c@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 23:10:40 +0000

du
 
> I have a Thorogood with the adjustable tree.  I really like it, it fits 

Persoanl opinion strikes again! Trever (17hh TB), I sometimes ride,
has a Thorogood saddle and I HATE it!

>
> Sue

Alan.
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: Mike.Hoffmann@sniap.mchp.sni.de (Mike Hoffmann)
Subject: Irish - small horse, so what ? (Re: more olympics)
Organization: Siemens-Nixdorf AG, AP 712
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 15:16:41 GMT

In article <1992Aug11.034612.1097@cco.caltech.edu> elainel@cco.caltech.edu (Elaine E. Lindelef) writes:
>I sympathize with the announcer who predicted that little Irish would
>never make it--I was thinking the same myself! He's a neat little horse,
>but he isn't a power horse. Wow! (In fact, I think I heard Dello Joio

All those here who express astonishment or are pleased at the good performance
of a small horse like Irish seem completely to forget the little bouncing
rubber-ball Jappeloupe (I think that's the right spelling). Him being maybe
15h (?). But he still won everything in site, maybe 6-8 years ago.

Mike
-- 
Mike Hoffmann, Siemens-Nixdorf AG, SNI AP 712  
INTERNET: Mike.Hoffmann@sniap.mchp.sni.de
"Bosnia has no oil [as opposed to Kuwait]." (unknown citizen of Sarajevo)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: marsh@cs.cornell.edu (Dorothy Marsh)
Subject: Hackamores  (I'm posting this for Jodie Gilmore)
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 13:59:30 GMT




I thought I'd add my 2 cents' worth about hackamores. I have ridden
with a hackamore for about as long as I can remember. When I break
my horses, I usually start them in a snaffle (every horse, esp. ones
you want to resell, should be able to work in a bit). But then I
alternate between bit and hackamore for training work. Of course, you
can't show in a hackamore, in most cases.

(an aside--I am amazed that Olympic people can use mechanical hackamores
in show jumping. I am sure that if I had showed up at a jumping show
in WA when I was showing, I would have been disqualified for inappropriate
equipment!)

Anyway, I *like* hackamores very much. But like any piece of horse
equipment, or technique, you have to evaluate your horse. I never
rode my Shetland Pony (my first horse) with one--she had a mouth
of iron, and definitely could not be 'ridden with a halter'. My next
pony, a Welsh/Arab cross, had a great mouth, and could be ridden with
a curb, a snaffle, a halter, a hackamore, etc. And in general, I used
a hackamore (actually, for many years I used a braided 'Indian hackamore'
that my uncle made out of baling twine--worked great!)

My next horse, a Percheron/Morgan/QH gelding, was an old roping
horse, and was *terrified* of bits. Obviously, he had been yanked on
for many years. He threw his head terribly, if you even thought of
touching the reins. So, I put him in a hackamore immediately, and he
was happy. He did run away quite a bit with other horses, but he would
also do that with a bit... Eventually, I was able to ride him with a
bit at shows. But the hackamore was his thing.

And my current horse, a sensitive, determined, hot mare called Mira,
works best in a hackamore--the nose piece is padded with fake fur,
and the chin strap is plain leather, and is loose enough to cause people
who don't ride with us often to say "you sure that's tight enough?".
I can ride her with a bit--I showed her English and to get the response
I wanted I rode her with a pelham, but trained with a snaffle--but she
throws her head much more with a curb, and pulls through a snaffle.
With the hackamore, she is just right.

You can even 'collect' (to a certain degree) and balance a horse
using a hackamore. I don't think you could do dressage with it. But
if the hackamore fits right and you use it in partnership with your
understanding of your horse's attitude and habits, it is no more cruel,
and causes no more headtossing than any other headgear. 

--
Jodie Gilmore
sasjmg@unx.sas.com

**********************************************************************


Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: marsh@cs.cornell.edu (Dorothy Marsh)
Subject: Post from Jodie Gilmore
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 17:21:28 GMT



                  ATTENTION ALL NORTH CAROLINA RIDERS!!!

The NC Wildlife Resources Commission has passed a ruling, outlawing
all horseback riding on all game lands in Wake, Orange, Durham, and
Chatham counties--this especially affects the Jordan Lake and Falls
Lake game lands.

The original charter for these lands (from the US Congress) included
"equestrian activities". Plus, the Commission did not publicize the
new ruling which went into effect July 1, nor did they post the lands
"no horses"--thus, some poor rider got fined for riding on the land,
when no one even knew of the ruling!!

There is a petition circulating, asking that the Commission to immediately
suspend the new ruling, and allow select representatives of the horse
community to help them form a task force to establish good land
management plans that include horse back riding.

I have copies of the petition if anyone would like one--send me your
US Mail address and I'll send you one. The signatures must be turned
in by August 25th, I believe, so we'll have to move fast!

--
Jodie Gilmore
sasjmg@unx.sas.com

**********************************************************************
From: sknopp@vax (KNOPP, SHERRON)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: IRISH - how big is small?
Date: 18 Aug 92 17:53:00 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Williams College Center for Computing
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Aug17.200448.19054@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, pfau@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (lynn.r.pfau) writes...
>There has been a lot of discussion about IRISH  being "small".
>Does anyone know just how small he is?
> 
Irish is 15.3,

Sherron
Williamstown, MA
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: lcasey@uoft02.utoledo.edu
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: Trailering a weanling
Date: 20 Aug 92 09:43:10 EST
Organization: University of Toledo, Computer Services

My experience with trailering weanlings has been good.  I teach the babies to
load and stand tied in the trailer before we take a trip.  Once the baby is
happy to stand in the trailer quietly, we will take a trip.  Last year's
baby rode to his first show alone (about 45 min. drive) and did fine.
His next trip was about 2 hours with no problems.  On the way back, the truck
blew a radiator hose and the baby stood in the trailer for *9* hours, alone!
He stood quietly all that time and was a real jewel through the whole disaster.
Not bad for a 5 month old colt.

I *always* wrap legs on babies (and everybody else).  I use the soft, thick
polo wraps on the babies without quilts when they are small.  The wraps
provide support and protect those tiny legs from bumps and bruises.  Teaching
the baby to stand still to have his legs wrapped is a good lesson for them to
learn young.

BTW, I've never hauled a mare and baby together with one or both loose.
The babies have always been tied. (I have a slant load trailer.)  
Leigh
trailer.

Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: karenk@col.hp.com (Karen Kemerling)
Subject: horse
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 23:24:11 GMT
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division

I am looking to buy my first horse.  I will use him/her 
for pleasure riding but eventually I would like to barrel
race and pole bend....  I was wondering if any of you 
veterans may have some suggestions as to what type of
horse I should look for and how much I should reasonably
pay.  I'm very serious and am willing to spend time with
this horse... let me know what you think..


Thanks,



Karen K.
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Cautiously good news
From: sbishop@desire.wright.edu
Date: 14 Aug 92 19:34:03 EST
Organization: Wright State University 


For all of you who have been pulling for me and my mare, I have tentative
good news from the vet in N.C. where she is in pasture with the stallion.

The vet palpated her in foal this week (about four weeks along).  I am 
cautiously hopeful, we've gotten this far before with this mare and stallion
but she absorbed before 45 days.  If she IS still safely in foal by the
middle of September then we will talk about bringing her home the last of
the month.  If she loses this one again, we are going to give up and bring
her home.  

One of the vet's two mares is also in foal, we are both keeping our fingers
crossed.  We've also tenatively worked out a deal, if she has a filly and
I have a stud colt, we may work out a swap.  

(For those of you who have no idea what I am talking about...)  

My registered Arabian mare, Rose of Quality has been in N.C. at the stud
farm since the 1st of March.  She is of excellent Domestic Arabian bloodlines
(Double R and CMK) and is double *Count Dorsaz on her sire's side.  She is
being bred to Count Fast, one of the very few living sons of *Count Dorsaz
and the only one who is of straight Crabbet breeding.  Unfortunately after
I shipped her down to the stud farm, Count Fast started having fertility
problems and we feared he had gone completely sterile.  Turning him out
in the pasture with the vet's two mares and my mare was our last ditch
effort to get foals.  My mare did palpate in foal in June, lost the foal
between 28 and 45 days.  So, we are hoping that this time everything works.

And for all of you who helped with fertility rituals (hey, we were desparate!),
from dancing around trees in Canada to pouring libations on Druid sites in
Europe, mucho gratitude!   Sounds like just maybe the spirits got on our
side!

Sue
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 20:33:25 EDT
From: <CSS3@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: bit suggestions wanted
 <1992Aug13.050131.26314@sserve.cc.adfa.oz.au>

Re. the plea for advice for what bit to use on a "hot" competitive trail
horse. My half-Arab mare was always too strong to ride just in a snaffle but
I had success using a Pelham bit with medium-length shanks and a snaffle
mouth.  That way if she was going OK I didn't have to use the curb rein. The
Pelham has one bit but attachments for a snaffle rein plus a curb rein and also
 has a curb chain. I think this is still a fairly mild bit but does give you
that extra control out on the trail. When I would take my weekly dressage les-s
ons, I would tie up the curb rein over her neck and just ride on the snaffle re
in. Keeping her behind another horse, as another person suggested, also helped
me avoid runaways. The more you ride the horse, the more attuned you'll get to
each other, too, and you'll be surprised how well you communicate by the time
you've put in lots of miles in preparation for that ride.  Good luck. My mare g
ot 2nd in novice division when we did a 30-mile ride and it was one of my
biggest horse-related thrills. (Note: this message is being posted on my husban
d's logon as I don't have access to the eques. net on my office system altho I
can send and receive messages on Bitnet. --Mary Ann Whitley. mqw5@psuadmin)
From: VBENJAM@uga.cc.uga.edu (Virginia Benjamin)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Isoxuprine, was trtmt/navicular
Date: 12 Aug 92 22:57:05 GMT
Reply-To: equestrians@world.std.com
Organization: BBN news/mail gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: news.bbn.com

Yes, it was definitely a long shot to use isoxuprine on a foundered horse
several years after the debilitating episode, but I was anxious to give any-
thing a try.  After B's coffin  bone rotated and all the laminae died, his
circulation was so compromised that he grew an abnormal amount of heel (good
bloodflow down the back of the leg) and almost no toe.  At the vet school here
in Athens, they were trying isoxuprine to stimulate circulation and
possibly prevent the side-effect of founder in some colic cases (circa mid-80s)
so when they suggested that I (as a client) try it to see if there was any pos-
sibility of improving circulation AFTER founder, I said why not, hoping to
improve the circulation up the front of the hoof/leg. But after 3 months I
could see no improvement, so I just went back with the mundane stuff like
frequent trims/reshoes to keep the angle correct so he would be comfortable.

virginia
athens, ga.
From: tracy@scoraz.resp-sci.arizona.edu (Tracy Scheinkman)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: re: side-pulls
Date: 19 Aug 92 06:53:21 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson, AZ


From: kcumming@bingsuns.cc.binghamton.edu (kcumming)

Subject: side-pulls

>Hmm. . . I don't know Tracy, several of the side-pulls I own have mouth
>pieces. Both of them were marketed as side-pulls.  I have several books
>on bits - I'll do some reading tonight on side-pulls vs. half breeds.
>But for now - I stand with my original description of side -pulls.

>Kitty Cummings

	Please let me know what your research discovers. 

				Tracy and everybody
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: 6175190@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Subject: Re: Horse attacking dogs was Drivers encounter ...
Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space Company, Inc.
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 17:36:54 GMT

>Horses' reactions to dogs can sometimes be quite interesting. I remember once

My yearling Morgan gelding and his pasture mate (also yearling Morgan
gelding) have taken to "herding" the dogs that venture into their
pasture. They don't seem to be aggressive or mean, just that it is a
fun game! Once or twice I've seen them try to take after pigeons.

If only they'd chase the ground squirrels out of the pasture! ;-)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: marsh@cs.cornell.edu (Dorothy Marsh)
Subject: Re: First Horse
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 19:21:53 GMT

In article <EeZHSyq00WBLM3unUY@andrew.cmu.edu> Jean Andrews <ja23+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>I just purchased a 1 1/2 registered quarter horse, Touch of Elegance,
>Ellie for short, for my daughter.   She has a very bad habit of
>rearing and we have started using the chain around her upper nose
>attached to the lead rope.  Is there any other options available.  I
>realize we will have a lot of work to do with her, but she really is
>spoiled and also kicks alot.  I got it in the stomach the other night
>after she had reared at the sight of the killer wheelbarrow and then 
>turned and kicked me (I don't think she was aiming for me, just a
>lucky shot).  Thanks in advance.


I don't know what your past experience is dealing with difficult horses,
but if you aren't experienced with this kind of behavior, she may
be more than you should deal with yourself.  I know that this isn't
what you want to hear, but there are a lot of nice, safe horses
out there that are a lot more fun to work with, not to mention
safer for you and your family.

If you decide to keep her, find a very experienced horseperson
or professional trainer to work with her.  If you don't, you may
end up getting hurt.  No horse is worth your life.

Sorry this is such a negative post, but it doesn't sound like
a good situation, and I felt it was necessary to voice my opinion.

Good luck, whatever you decide.

     Dorothy
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: pfau@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (lynn.r.pfau)
Subject: IRISH - how big is small?
Organization: AT&T
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 20:04:48 GMT

There has been a lot of discussion about IRISH  being "small".
Does anyone know just how small he is?

thanks, Lynn Pfau
AT&T
Naperville, Il
ihlpe!pfau