X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL0]
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 15 Apr 1992 17:56:02 EST
From:         Ian Williams <iwilliam@AU.ORACLE.COM>
Subject:      Re: your mail
X-To:         spk@aberystwyth.ac.uk
              "spk@aberystwyth.ac.uk" at Apr 14, 92 4:33 pm

>>>>
>>>> Ian,
>>>>   Thanks for your message,
>>>>
No problems.. Hopefully I can answer some of the points.

>>>> You state that you believe it possible that we can lose our Justification.
>>>> I have a few more posts to make to describe how I read those scriptures
>>>> which you would use to justify that position.
>>>>
>>>> You have said from time to time on the list that you are an adopted son
>>>> of God. Tell me, if you and your wife adopted a child and in ten years
>>>> time that child turned around and said "I don't want to be your child
>>>> anymore.", what would you say?
>>>>
Stephen,
	This is the exact time where the adoption is broken.. Our adoption is
not broken by us sinning, or by lack of faith , or love or anything like that.
God is our Father and he will never reject us.

We however can say to him, I no longer want to be your son.. If we deny him
as our Father, then the bible does say that he will deny us as His son..

If my child said I no longer wanted to be your son, then If I loved him
enough, I would have the grace to  let him make that decision.. The old
story about if you love something set it free, if it returns it is yours,
if it doesnt, it never was.... God sets us free, and His love and grace
is so powerfull that he actually gives us the oportunity to deny him... I
don't know if I could love my children that way, but God can, because God
is perfect love..

The RCC idea of unforgiven sin leading to hell or what ever is not what we
are talking about. I am talking about the deliberate denying of Christs
sacrifice for us..


>>>> Adoption is a serious business. We become a part of a family, and within
>>>> that family (if it is a healthy family), there will be disagreements,
>>>> chastening from the father, rewards when the children do well and so
>>>> on.
>>>>
Exactly right. When there is sin, there is forgivness...
Don't forget the parable of the prodigal son. Until the son came back to
the Father, he was lost... If the son had never come back, he would never
know that the Father had still forgiven him.. (if we never come back to
the Father after moving away by a deliberate denial, then we will never
know his forgivness)


>>>> Now God is our heavenly father, and we are His adopted children. If
>>>> we turn around and say "I'm going to go to this all night party, and
>>>> that's final" then God may rightly chasten us for our rebellion, but
>>>> he will not cast us out. Even if we say "I don't want to be your child
>>>> anymore." He will continue to love us and keep us.
>>>>
The first thing you said was correct, the second I disagree with... If
we go to our all night party of Sin, then God is still waiting for us
to go home... If we give up our legal right as children and heirs, then
we loose the priviledges of being in that family... Even a king can abdicate
from the throne, and that is in effect what we are doing.. we are giving up
our rights as sons and daughters of God..


>>>> When we accept Christ it is a serious commitment on both our part and
>>>> God's part. We are adopted into his family, adopted brothers of Christ
>>>> , the one "true" son of God. Just as you will never disown your children
>>>> (natural or adopted), so God will never desert us.
>>>>
Exactly.... God WILL never forsake or leave us.. But we can turn away from
Him.. Its two different things..


>>>> There is no doubt that such an act of rebellion from us would *grieve*
>>>> God, but he is faithful to his promises, which is why I know that I am
>>>> saved *regardless of what I do*.
>>>>
I am sorry, but I see no biblical basis for that conclusion... You
are saved irrespective of Sin whilst you are a child of God, but outside of
being a child, you are lost....


>>>> Comments?
>>>>
>>>> Stephen.
>
>
Hope that helps... I am going to copy this to the list for other comment..
Hope you don't mind!
---------------------+-------------+-----------------------------------------
Ian Williams         |    _--_|\   |      Internet: iwilliam@au.oracle.com
Oracle Systems       |   /      \  |	  Phone	  : +61 8 239 3900
Adelaide, Australia  |   \_.--*_/  |
                     |         v   |
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU