From: krueger@galileo.physics.arizona.edu (Ted Krueger)
Newsgroups: alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.bush
Subject: Re: Homophobes in the Military..what nobody is talking about: (Re: Gays in the Military..what nobody is talking about: )
Date: 14 Dec 92 21:14:37 GMT
Distribution: world, na
Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson AZ

In article <1992Dec11.140232.31768@ux1.cts.eiu.edu> cfthb@ux1.cts.eiu.edu (Howard Black) writes:
>In article <1992Dec8.230533.24002@galileo.physics.arizona.edu> krueger@galileo.physics.arizona.edu (Ted Krueger) writes:
>
>>Please, allow me to explain one more time.  When homosexuals are in fear 
>>of losing their job in the military, they are discrete.  They cannot let 
>>it be known that they are gay because they will be booted.  If/When they 
>>are allowed normal entry into the military, they will be an instant 
>>minority.  Their minority status will ensure that they will be able to 
>>get away with more than regular GI's.  Gays WILL act out of line.  And 
>>they will not get prosecuted to the extent that they should, simply 
>>because they are a minority.
>
>    Just like those pesky blacks, who were ushered into the armed forces by
>Executive Order just like gays will be, huh?
>
>    Is this prediction of yours another exercise in mental masturbation for
>you, or can you support it with historical examples?  Blacks are a perfect
>analogy, since they were never able to hide their status - gays will still
>have the option.  I don't see blacks misbehaving and hiding behind some
>"minority status" - but perhaps you have examples of which I'm unaware.
>Please enlighten me.

First of all, please keep your masturbation (mental or otherwise) to yourself.

Secondly, since you are a professor, I am sure that you are aware of all 
the facts, and that I will have a difficult time doing enough research to 
come across a fact that you are not aware of, but let me give it a shot 
using intimate, personal knowledge.

Let me give you one example, and follow that by a claim that it happens 
much more than once.  Let me also remind you that I have been in the U.S. 
military for 22 years (17 as a dependent and 5 on active duty), and ask, 
have you ever served in the military, and do you believe that it is a job 
just like any other?

Example: There is a condition which genetically selects black men as subjects.  
It involves facial hair, which, when shaved, has an increased tendency to 
become ingrown in the face of men so afflicted.  A number of men, a few 
white, but mostly black, applied for and received "shaving-waivers."  These 
waivers allowed them to pass inspection even though facial hair (which is 
prohibited-except for mustaches-in the Air Force) up to a length of 1/8" 
was present.  As time passed, some men (black and white) applied for 
these waivers even though they did not really suffer from the affliction.  
As the numbers increased, unit commanders and supervisors began to deny 
these waivers.  White men were unable to receive or continue their wavers, 
but some black men cried, "racism" and were able to get waivers.  By the 
time I entered the Air Force (1977) it was odd to find a black man who 
had applied for a shaving-waiver which had been denied.  In my troop, in 
basic training, there were 20 black airmen (out of nearly 60 recruits).  
Nineteen of the twenty blacks had shaving-waivers, while none of the others 
did.  The question, "Why is it so easy for blacks to get waivers?" had only 
one answer (of course it was never officially stated), "We simply want to 
avoid the trouble."

I'm sure that you were already aware of this example of "minority-status" 
and that you have considered it and dismissed it.  There are many other 
examples, most of which are individual cases, not general, but some of the 
most heinous were the promotion rates of blacks and women, compared to 
white males.

Ted, yeah, I know it sounds like racism, but am I permitted to state 
     the facts anyway? Krueger


-- 
So the Maples formed a union, and demanded equal rights, "The Oaks are just 
too greedy.  We will make them give us light!"  Now there's no more Oak 
oppression, for they passed a noble law.  And the trees are all kept equal, 
by hatchet, axe and saw.     -  Rush, The Trees