HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: shane@psych.psy.uq.oz.au (Shane Brown)
Subject: Re: Lateral Line Erosion & Grounding
Followup-To: rec.aquaria
Organization: University of Queensland. Oz.
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 03:53:47 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.111734.3588@wvnvms.wvnet.edu>,
sh240031@wvnvms.wvnet.edu wrote: 

> I have never experienced it myself, but a freind has a hippo tang that got it
> real bad.  The desease as I have seen it manifests itself as a degenaration of
> skin along the line area.  This exposes the flesh under the skin.  This,
> I think,then opens the way for secondary bacterial infections. 
> 
> The lateral line acts as a sort of sonar for the fish by detecting minute
> changes in the surrounding electromagnetic fields.  When high voltages are 
> present, as in the marine aquarium, it is believed that the fuction of this 
> system isimpaired and is translated into to abnormal stress.  Some fish have 
> been shown to be affected by this stituation than others.

G'Day,
   Is this sort of problem (with the voltage, not necessarily lateral
   line disease) common or ever present in freshwater setups ? My
   setup, in case it's relevant:

          Sacem canister filter.
          200 watt heater
          Undergravel filter, 4 lift tubes, 2 pumps
          Two 40 watt lights, one 30 watt.
          55 gallon tank.
          Fish, plants, rocks, water 8).
          
Cheers, Shane. 

,------------------------THE BIRTH OF LEADERSHIP-------------------,
|_       o   `,         o                           ,____________, |
| `,      o   \`,         o  <>(  <>(   <>(  ---   '| OK gang,   | | 
|  \`,   o    |  \--__,_,       <>(   <>(  ---      | ready, set | |
|   \ `,  _-''           0`,        <>(   <>( --    | ...ATTACK! | |
|    \  `'         {{{ \__'  o   <>(   <>(  <>( --  `---------,--' |
|    / ,'""|/--__| /_---'  o   <>(    <>(   <>(  ---          `,   |
|   /'   o       |/         o      <>(    <>( ---        --- )<>   |
`------------------------------------------------------------------'
Shane Brown: shane@psych.psy.uq.oz.au  fax +617 365 4466 
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria
From: russell@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (David Russell)
Subject: Re: Painted Glass Fish
Organization: Clarkson University
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 20:56:57 GMT

From article <1992Sep7.132713.12611@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu>, by satilley@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu:
> Here's something to make you all groan....
> 
> I stopped in a store to let them know I was checking to see if they were
> *STILL* selling the Painted Glass fish. 
> < text deleted >
> -- 
> Anne Kaelber satilley@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu
> Miami University
> Oxford, Ohio

Here's one to make you happy.

 I told the store I go to most often that the Painted Glass Fish
were actually injected. They have since virtually discontinued selling
them. They sold the ones they already had and have almost sold the
order they already had placed, and have no intentions of ever ordering
them again as stock :-) (only if specifically requested will they
order them, well after all they are a bussiness.) But, with none
in the store, a lot less will be sold in this town.

Just trying to do my part.

 
--
David M. Russell, Mechanical Eng. Dept.
Clarkson University, Potsdam, NY 13676
(315) 268-9806 
russell@sun.soe.clarkson.edu
From: sh240031@wvnvms.wvnet.edu
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria
Subject: [M] Plywood bottom for tank
Date: 11 Sep 92 23:37:57 GMT
Organization: West Virginia Network for Educational Telecomputing

Does anyone have or know anyone who has had experience with construction and
maintainence fo tanks with epoxy covered plywood bottoms???

While pricing materials for the construction of a 300gal. tank, I discovered
that the bottom glass will be about ~$270.  Will plywood work?
From: sh240031@wvnvms.wvnet.edu
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria
Subject: Re: Lateral Line Erosion & Grounding
Date: 9 Sep 92 17:57:54 GMT
Organization: West Virginia Network for Educational Telecomputing

In article <16846@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu>, putzolu@toadflax.cs.ucdavis.edu (David Putzolu) writes:
> In article <1992Sep08.192135.20849@bnr.ca> oste@crchh79.BNR.CA (Greg Osterhout) writes:
>>I have never been able to keep tangs for extended periods.  They always
>>seem to get Lateral Line Disease.  There have been several theories as
>>to the cause of this condition.  The latest theory is induced voltages.
>>
>>I have seen a new product in FAMA by Sandpoint that is supposed to ground
>>the tank and cure Lateral Line erosion.  The product is called
>>Sandpoints Solution Ground and the cost is ~$45.  Has anyone heard anything
>>about this product?  It has a titanium tip to prevent metal corrosion.  But
>>it seems to me that a bacterial slime would cover the tip and prevent the
>>ground from working.  Any opinions on this.

I use a homemade ground created by my local shop keeper.  The electrode is a
specific form of stainless steel.  I don't recall the exact number of the
steel, but I will ask him tonight.  It cost $15.  I don't know that the slime
that builds up hinders its performance, but I do clean it periodically.


> 
> Speaking of lateral line disease - what is it? I've got a Tang in
> my tank, and plenty of electrical stuff, so I worry. My tang is doing
> perfectly well, but his lateral line does seem more visible than it
> used to. What does lateral line disease look like, what are the 
> symptoms, etc., and is it enough to run a wire to a ground to defeat
> and worry about it?
> 
> Thanks!


I have never experienced it myself, but a freind has a hippo tang that got it
real bad.  The desease as I have seen it manifests itself as a degenaration of
skin along the line area.  This exposes the flesh under the skin.  This,
I think,then opens the way for secondary bacterial infections. 

The lateral line acts as a sort of sonar for the fish by detecting minute
changes in the surrounding electromagnetic fields.  When high voltages are 
present, as in the marine aquarium, it is believed that the fuction of this 
system isimpaired and is translated into to abnormal stress.  Some fish have 
been shown to be affected by this stituation than others.

You can measure the voltage in your tank by placing one electrode of a
multi-tester in the tank and the other electrode to the screw that holds the
coverplate on most electric outlets.  If the electrodes are too short, putting
some wire on one of the electrodes will serve as an extension.  If you do this,
make sure you tape the ends together.  If any of the contact points make
contact with your skin, you will get a false low reading.  I would doubt that
any mid to large size marine tank using various pumps, powerheads, and haeters
will have less than 30 free volts.

I am by no means an expert on this matter and any related opinions are
encouraged.

				Carl
				
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria
From: weekley@helios.phy.ohiou.edu (Don Weekley)
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria
Subject: [F] tank and fish suggestions REQUEST
Date: 10 Sep 92 04:45:07 GMT
Organization: Ohio University ASCGL, Athens


Hello again,
	I have fixed my address for postings and am going to try
again to get some advice. I have two questions.

1) What are the pluses and minuses of a HEX tank? 
	I am looking to get a 60gallon HEX tank (because of space
	limitations. Especially for fish who like to race or need
	an especially long tank to swim, can the more circular
	nature of this tank allow them to swim in a circle
	easier, as if it were swimming in a long tank. 
   	Also what would be a good way to set up a UGF in a
	non-rectangular tank that will be effective?
	What about a hood are these easy to setup, to get the
	extra light needed for the added depth of the tank?
	Thanks in advance for your advice.

2) I want this tank to be a community tank and want some thoughts
   on the mix my wife and I want to set up in this tank.
  	She wants:	~12 neon tetras
			2-4 mollies
			2-4 red velvet swords

	I want :	2 dwarf gourami
			1 puffer fish
			1 betta (maybe a friend later)
			1 kuhli loach and/or another algae eater
			1-2 killifish

   I think this may be too much, but we also plan on having as
many plants as we can fit in the tank and still be able to see
the fish from time to time.

	I know this is probably asking alot of everyone but I
want to get a big tank (because I am lazy) and I want to do it
right and have both my wife and I to enjoy it and work on it and
then neither one of us would feel overburdened with the sole
upkeep of the tank. Thanks again in advance.

					Don


-- 
Hey there! Hi there! Ho there!
You're as welcome as can be!
M-I-C-K-E-Y M-O-U-S-E!!
What else can it be?
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria
From: cliff@watson.ibm.com (cliff)
Subject: Filter media			
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1992 13:13:25 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: A

There are so many exotic forms of filter media, e.g. ceramic noodles and the
like.  Is it possible that little or no research has been done to prove these
things help.  It's sometimes amusing to speculate about an entrepreneur
who wishes to make money.  He comes up with a new material and calls
it a pre-pre-filter.  It looks like dog biscuits with fractal holes in it.	
He gives it a fancy sounding German name.  And tells you that you should
put it in your cannister filter before the pre-filter.  A nice way to
make money, but do filter companies really do research to prove that 
some cool-looking material really does something?  Thanks, Cliff
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria
Subject: Re: Electric cats?
From: <UD005565@NDSUVM1.BITNET>
Date: Monday, 14 Sep 1992 13:14:04 CDT
Distribution: usa
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computer Network

     I use to have an elctric catfish in an 80 gallon tank with nothing but
catfish. He did have small eyes but didn't look much like a cigar. He did have
a black and white band on his tail, but I didn't keep him for his beauty, I
liked to ask friends to catch the big slow 12 inch catfish so I could clean the
tank. It was kind of neat. You'd feel the electricty travel up the arm withe
the metal net in it, and then down the leg or the other arm depending on how
the person was grounded.
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria
From: Igor Livshits <igorl@uiuc.edu>
Subject: Re: Lateral Line Erosion & Grounding
X-Xxdate: Thu, 10 Sep 92 00:00:24 GMT
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d9
Organization: NCSA
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 23:05:16 GMT
X-Xxmessage-Id: <A6D53DB81A0114C6@spiff.ncsa.uiuc.edu>

I bought the Sandpoint lead after several months of trying to build one
myself.  I had a tough time finding anyone who would sell me an
appropriate rod of stainless steel for less than the Sandpoint product. 
There was plenty of plated objects (I even used a fork for a while).  
But many types of stainless steel will corrode in salt water.  The ones
having Hg frightened me especially.   Thus, I finally bought the
Sandpoint lead and saved myself the worry and hassle.

My Yellow tang seems to be doing better (especially since I moved the
lead to the tank from the sump).  The Coral Beauty angelfish is about the
same -- she has patches just above her eyes.

Igor
From: sh240031@wvnvms.wvnet.edu
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria
Subject: Re: Does grounding the sump work?
Date: 11 Sep 92 23:37:46 GMT
Organization: West Virginia Network for Educational Telecomputing

In article <1992Sep9.230658.15097@cs.ucla.edu>, jason@lanai.cs.ucla.edu (Jason Rosenberg) writes:
> Carl,
> 
> It sounds like your confusing the measuring of current with voltage.  Voltage
> is not something that flows or travels.  It is a potential energy level.
> A voltmeter effectively does not allow any current to flow (well, very
> miniscule amounts).  You have connected your voltmeter in series, which
> is really how you would want to connect an ammeter to measure current flow.
> To measure voltage, you need to connect your voltmeter in parallel.  That is,
> leave your grounding circuit intact, and measure the difference in voltage
> potential at the electrode and the ground screw, while not disrupting the
> normal operation of your circuit.  So far, you have only measured the voltage
> that exists in your tank when there is no grounding (since you effectively
> disconnected your grounding circuit to insert your voltmeter).  So, 70vac seems
> about right for a typical induced voltage (not grounded).  If your circuit
> is properly grounded, you should measure close to 0 volts.
> 
> So, we are still waiting to hear the results of your next experiment to
> find out if grounding the sump is ok.......
> 
> Jason

Last night I did as was suggested above.  With the ground circuit still
connected I measured the potential between the tank and the ground. A reading 
of 0 VAC was observed.  I then moved the grounding electrode to the sump and
repeated the process. The potential between the tank and ground was measurable
at .201 VAC.  I then proceeded to determine the amount of current flowing
through each configuration.  This was accomplished by inserting a 50ohm
resistor in series with the ground circut and measuring the voltage accross the
resistor.  These values were then use in the equation E=IR (I=R/E) to determine
current.  This value was .00325 or 3.25mA when the ground electrode was in the
tank and .00324 or 3.24mA when the ground was in the sump.

So, I guess this indicates that grounding from the tank, at least in my case,
is a bit, be it small, more efficient, although I don't think it is enough to
say grounding the sump is not effective.

From another post on the same thread someone  questioned the use of expensive
materials for the electrode.  I found out that if stainless steel is to be
used, it must be of the 316s variety. Other types of stainless will corrode in
a salt envirnoment. As for using just any old wire your really asking for
problems.  

Hope this answers the questions.
				
				Carl
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria,alt.aquaria
From: livings@unislc.uucp (Ross Livingston)
Subject: wet dry pumps
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 17:13:19 GMT
Keywords: wet dry pump water test

Howdy all:

I've finalized most of my plans for my DIY w/d and only a few
questions remain.  After I'm done making this thing, I'll post an
explaination of what I did, how much it cost, etc.  First, the situation:

I have a 55g [F] that I'm setting up.  The w/d will be based on a 10g
tank with an acrylic trickle tower.  I'll probably buy 4 gallons (15 l) of
bio-pack unless I get any better suggestions.  The w/d will house a
150 or 200 W heater and will be fed (water) by a pre-filter (connected by
1" (2.54 cm) diameter pvc) which will be fed by a 1" siphon/skimmer box
combo.  Oh yea, I'll be getting Africans, mostly smaller varieties of
Tanginykans (sp?) and will have no live plants and maybe no gravel.

I'm still not sure what to do for a pump.  With my stand setup, the position
of the w/d will mean that there will be 43 inches (109 cm) of head from the
bottom of the w/d to the top of the tank.  I origionally planned on using
an Aquaclear 802 power head.  I've since heard that these don't perform
satisfactorally at this much head, though others report that they do just
fine.  I've also considered getting a Little Giant Quarium 2-MDQ-SC which
will do 465 gph (1767 l/hour) at 3' (91 cm) of head.  This would probably
be a better bet for durability (???) but costwise, a big difference.  I
have priced the 802 at $23US and the Little Giant at $76.50.  What
suggestions can anyone make here?  Any success stories of an 802 performing
well at 3.5' of head?  Any horror stories?

If I get the Little Giant, I won't be getting any additional filtration
equipment right away.  My pre-filter will have a mechanical (floss) filter,
and maybe a charcol filter (this could also go in the w/d).  Will this be
sufficiant for my needs?

If I get the 802 I could also get a pair of smaller power heads just for
circulation, or maybe a canister filter for mechanical filtration.  I'm
worried the w/d and pre-filter combo will not provide adequate mechanical
filtration as the water intake and return will both be at the surface.
Do I NEED some other filtration device that operates on the bottom?  At one
pet store they have a [F] set up with just a w/d as I've described with a
rather light fish load and quite a few plants and they guy said he had
vacuumed the gravel for the first time in 6 mo and got practically no
detritus out.

One more quick question:  What do you all recommend for test kits for [F]
tanks?  Do I need an elaborate (READ: expensive) unit or can I just get
some pH paper from the local chem supply house?  Any suggestions on brands?

Thanks for your help.  I hope my questions are all clear.  I hope to order
very soon so if you have any suggestions, I'd really appreciate it.

If you e-mail me and it bounces, try livings@cs.utah.edu
-- 
Ross Livingston, Unisys Corp.  |  Phone   (801) 594-6217
322 North  2200 West,   D1V03  |  Fax     801-594-4861 / 801-594-6708
Salt Lake City, UT   84116     |  E-Mail  livings@unislc.slc.unisys.com
From: mark@trident.datasys.swri.edu (Mark D. Collier)
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria
Subject: Power heads will not drive skimmer
Date: 14 Sep 92 20:35:18 GMT
Organization: Southwest Research Institute, San Antonio, Texas

In response to my last post about a venturi skimmer design using
powerheads, I must respond that a power head WILL NOT drive a
large skimmer. I tried the aforementioned configuration with vari-
ous containers and in all cases, any meaningful back pressure
stopped the venturi (as reported by several wiser aquarists). Oh
well - I will use the power heads for circulation and say that is
what I bought them for (rather than a disassembled UGF).

My latest tangent is to use a portion of the output of my sump
to drive a skimmer. Anyone else use this design? Martin Moe says
that you should not place the skimmer on the output side of a
trickle filter, but at least two netters have expressed that
their version of this configuration works great.

Thanks, Mark

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mark D. Collier                      Southwest Research Institute
Senior Research Analyst              Automation and Data Systems Division
Voice: (512) 522-3437                Data Systems Department
FAX:   (512) 522-5499                Software Engineering Section
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria,alt.aquaria,sci.aquaria
From: frazier@oahu.cs.ucla.edu (Greg Frazier)
Subject: Re: Rare & exotic plecos
Organization: UCLA, Computer Science Department
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 92 23:37:37 GMT

In <1992Sep9.010153.12695@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu> cpbuehrer@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu writes:

>I know I'm being a lamer for not posting the scientific names, but I'm too lazy
>to walk across the room and get the magazine just to type in those
>unpronouncable latin octo-syllabic names anyway.

Look out - by not posting the sci. names, your eliminating
a lot of petential net.help.  Especially European readers
are going to have no clue as to what a "mango pleco".

>Well...my question to all you fish.net.nuts is where/how to I get my grubby
>little paws on some of these elusive critters...none of the local pet stores
>carry them on a regular basis (if at all).  If I order them through one of
>these pet stores, what kinds of prices should I expect to pay?

It is fairly unlikely that your local pet store will have them.
I have seen a spate of "rare" plecos (rare in pet stores, at least)
come through LA in the last few years, and none of the ones you've
mentioned have been seen by me (at least, not by those names).
Rare plecos go for $60+ here in LA - when Chinese sailfin algae
eaters (or whatever they are called) first showed up here, they
were $150, and that was for a 4" fish.  They're down to the upper
$50's now, as they are a bit more common.  Same for "zebra" plecos -
saw a tank full of 3"-ers for ~$40 ea.

I guess I'd try a number of sources simultaneously.  Certainly
go to a high-quality local pet shop and ask them to look out for
a "mango" pleco, but expect to pay on the order of $150 for the
fish.  You can also call wholesalers and see if they have a clue.
But your best bet may be to write to the editors of the mag you
read about the fish in, and ask them for either possible sources
or an address for the author of the article, etc.

>(Breeding them will be my
>long term goal...but I have to get some first!)  Are there any special
>conditions I'd need to know about to make these plecos ultra happy and healthy?
>(ie: DH, pH, dissolved O2 levels, etc...etc...)

>--Dennis
>  ^^^^^^new pleco freak

Plecos are definitely cool fish.  You will certainly need to know
the proper conditions for keeping the fish - some Loricaridae aren't
fussy, but most are.  There are many species that have not yet been
bred in captivity, so you may be in uncharted waters, so to speak.
Since there are species in plecos in all sorts of water, from brackish
to hard/alkaline/fresh to super-soft/acidic, you will have to know
where your fish came from.
-- 


Greg Frazier	frazier@CS.UCLA.EDU	!{ucbvax,rutgers}!ucla-cs!frazier
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria
From: frazier@kona.cs.ucla.edu (Gregory Frazier)
Subject: Re: [F][P] Any plants in a true Amazonian tank?
Organization: UCLA, Computer Science Department
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 16:38:59 GMT

K. Rogers (krogers@javelin.sim.es.com) wrote:
: My question is: are these guys telling it like it is?  Are all those
: Echinodorus infested black water Amazonian tanks taking artistic
: license?  I suppose such a tank owner could mumble about the tank
: demonstrating flood conditions where normally emergent plants are
: submersed; it's just flooded all year long...

To expand a bit on what Fred said, most of these plants are
bog plants - that is, they sit will their roots in the river
bottom and their leaves out of the water for much of the year.
When the floods come, many plants will shed their leaves and
grow new, submersed leaves.  This is why your new swordplant
will sometimes shed all of its leaves when you put it into
your tank - it was grown emersed, and is now replacing its
old leaves for submersed-type leaves.  This is also true of
Crypts.

: The authors state a real Amazonian black water tank would have just
: lots of rotting logs plus decaying leaves on a muddy bottom.  Doesn't
: sound too attractive to me though beauty is in the eye of the

You'd be surprised - that would be a really cool looking tank, athough
difficult to keep clean (!).
--
"They thought to use and shame me but I win out by nature, because a true
freak cannot be made.  A true freak must be born." - Geek Love

Greg Frazier	frazier@CS.UCLA.EDU	!{ucbvax,rutgers}!ucla-cs!frazier
From: holly@sybase.com (Innocent Bystander)
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria
Subject: Re: Automated water changes
Date: 4 Sep 92 16:22:30 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Sybase, Inc.

In article <2800202@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM> booth@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (George Booth) writes:
>Excellent system!  I only wish I had our tanks somewhere near the
>water source and drain pipes.  And I wish the basement wasn't finished. 
>
>Oh, well.  The ol' Python will continue to get it's weekly workout.


I've never understood architects.  It should be obvious to everyone that
each room in a house needs a drain and a water source.  
Oh well.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
holly@sybase.com 			   *Who else would want this opinion?*
Soff^H^H^HophH^H^H^Hoftwea^H^H^aer Enj^H^H^HEngn^H^H^H^H, uh, Programmer
Sybase, Inc.
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria
From: marti@django.Colorado.EDU (Al Marti)
Subject: Nemos Live Food
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 22:42:00 GMT

that fish place's catalog advertises a live food called "nemos". among other
things the add claims:

	"grows itself just add water"
	"produces live food for weeks"
	"ready source of living protein"
	"provides over 25 vitamins and minerals"
	"hundreds grow over night"
	"grows in own culture dish"
	"excellent for raising baby fish, inverebrates, seahorses, marine fish"

but they never quite tell you what "nemos" are.

has anyone had any experience with "nemos" before in either fresh or salt water?

thanks,

-al marti