HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dkeisen@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dave Eisen)
Subject: Re: roy NL
Organization: Sequoia Peripherals, Inc.
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 92 17:16:25 GMT

In article <1992Sep8.171116.18240@leland.Stanford.EDU> claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
>In article <1992Sep8.153300.1877@island.COM> fester@island.COM (Mike Fester) writes:
>>
>>In any event, it really doesn't matter. Sanders is a quality CF, in a hitters'
>>park. He deserves CONSIDERATION for the ROY, but he IS a part-timer. 
>
>The question is, how much is Karros helping the team by playing everyday?  Not
>much, judging from the fact that he is *below average* for a first baseman.
>Sanders, although he only plays 65% of the time, contributes much more, since
>he is *way* above average.  Similar, although a smaller case, for Alou.
>
>And, should we punish Sanders for Lou Piniella's stupidity?

Yes we should. And at some level we do. If Piniella were dumb enough
to keep Sanders in the minors this year, he would not get any support
at all for ROY. Playing time counts.

As we all know, an average everyday player has some value, even a
below average everyday player does. I would be inclined to think
that a very good player playing 65% of the time is more valuable
than a below average full-time player, but the choice is by no
means clear cut.


-- 
Dave Eisen    dkeisen@leland.Stanford.EDU   Sequoia Peripherals: (415) 967-5644
      There's something in my library to offend everybody.
        --- Washington Coalition Against Censorship
From: mjs@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Marc Sabatella)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 16:55:03 GMT
Subject: Re: RC/27 for 3Bs
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball

In rec.sport.baseball, claudius@leland.stanford.edu (Nelson Lu) writes:

> AL AVERAGE			4.89
> Carney Lansford, Oakland	4.84

Far be it from me to reproduce someone's semi-prviate email in public, but a
certain well-known (on the net, anyhow, and presumably to fans of the
Miskatonic Cephalapods...:-) TWG tree-stump basher just last week congratulated
Carney on suprising him by being average.  Here's hoping for those extra .05
RC/27 by the end of the season!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc "Dave" Sabatella		Disclaimer: OPS is not the One True Statistic
marc@hpmonk.fc.hp.com		that makes all others obsolete
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Mmmm - po-ta-to chips!" - John Stuart Mill
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: olt@elwood.isgs.uiuc.edu (Scott Olt)
Subject: Robin Yount
Organization: Madame Tinkertoy's House of Blue Lights
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 08:04:43 GMT
Keywords: 3000 Hits!


Since it doesn't seem to have been mentioned yet, congratulations to
future Hall of Famer Robin Yount on the occasion of his 3000th hit
tonight!

(Rumor has it that he got his 1000th and his 2000th, as well as his
 3000th off Cleveland pitching...is true?)


'69 Cubs...'92 Athletics...need I say more? :-)

--
Scott Olt                                  | Internet: sdo@uiuc.edu
Illinois State Geological Survey           | UUCP: uunet!uiucuxc!uiuc.edu!sdo
"Most people wouldn't know music if it came up and bit them on the ass."
                              -- Frank Zappa
From: spira@panix.com (Greg "Sarcasm Is A Way Of Life" Spira)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: The Monthly Cecil Fielder Thread
Date: 5 Sep 92 03:21:05 GMT
Organization: Boo!

In <1992Sep4.174435.3715@island.COM> fester@island.COM (Mike Fester) writes:

>In article <37580@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> demers@cs.ucsd.edu (David DeMers) writes:
>>
>>We have reached agreement!  The point of disagreement is that you 
>>contend that Fielder is substantially responsible for the runs, and
>>thf (with lots of agreement by daves and dave-wanna-bes) says
>>that Tettleton, Fryman, Phillips and Whitaker on the whole contributed
>		 ^^^^^^
>>more.  Fielder just got more of the accounting entries called RBIs.

>How did a guy with lower OBP *AND* lower SLG contribute MORE to his team's 
>offense? In the BTW category, in 1990, Fielder had the highest SLG and OBP
>on the team. In '91, he had the highest SLG. This year, he STILL has the highest
>SLG of anyone who hasn't missed more than ~30 games (as of Aug 30).

Mike, you're missing an important distinction here:

1) Over the past year and 3/4, Cecil Fielder has produced more offense
than Travis Fryman.

2) Over the past year and 3/4, Travis Fryman has been a more valuable
offensive player.  He has contributed more though he has produced less.

The key to the difference in contributions is that the difference between
Fryman and a replacement level shortstop/third baseman is larger than the
difference between Fielder and a replacement level first baseman.

Greg 
-- 
  spira@panix.com       "The one-O delivery to Fisk.  He swings.  Long drive,  
 cmcl2!panix!spira      left field!  If it stays fair, it's gone!  Home Run!"  
158-17 Riverside Dr.                     Ned Martin, 10/22/75   
Whitestone NY 11357          (Insert your favorite baseball moment here)
From: z_copeab@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: more fuel to the anti-RBI fire
Date: 8 Sep 92 12:01:17 CST
Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University

Some fuel to the anti-RBI fire:

In 1990, when Fielder hit those 51 HR and had the monster RBI total (132?), he
drove in about 27-28% of the runners in scoring position. George Brett drove in
about 35%, and the league average was about 26.5%. Yes, in 1990 Fielder was
only slightly above average in driving in runs.

Brandon Cope

(ps. the NL leader happened to be Dave Magadan, at 42%, with Lenny Dykstra next
at 37%; NL average was about 25.5%)

pss. The percentages are from the 1991 Elias Baseball Analyst, remembered from
last night's reading.

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: claudius@leland.stanford.edu (Nelson Lu)
Subject: RC/27 for DHes
Organization: DSG, Stanford University
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 92 23:17:09 GMT

Paul Molitor, Milwaukee		7.74	; finally seized the lead from...
Dave Winfield, Toronto		7.63
Brian Downing, Texas		7.45
Chili Davis, Minnesota		6.02	; why can't the Angels have kept them?
Glenn Davis, Baltimore		5.96
Albert Belle, Cleveland		5.66
AL AVERAGE			5.15
Harold Baines, Oakland		4.94
Kevin Maas, New York		4.87
George Bell, Chicago		4.85
George Brett, Kansas City	4.75	; no more comments
Jack Clark, Boston		4.38
Hubie Brooks, California	2.88	; it wasn't you, Harold, was it?

===============================================================================
GO CALIFORNIA ANGELS!
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)
From: hasch@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu (Bruce M Hasch)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Amazing Walk Total
Date: 9 Sep 92 20:09:00 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: The Johns Hopkins University - HCF
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Sep9.182541.20103@news.iastate.edu>, sckelm@iastate.edu (Steven C Kelm) writes...
>This is one of the most amazing things I've seen this year.

C'mon, this is the year SAM HORN hit a triple.  If that isn't amazing, I don't
know what is...  :-) :-) 

>Randy Johnson   172 innings ..... 124 BB !!!
> 
>Good grief - is this close to some kind of record for a season?

Nah, I don't even think it's close.  I can remember reading that Bob Feller
walked over 200 guys several times in his career (however, that was in 300+
innings pitched, so the ratio's pretty comparable).  Nolan walked a LOT of
guys early in his career, too (why swing if you can't hit it anyway...).
Bobby Witt had some amusing lines in his career.  I'm not sure what the
true record is, hopefully someone can help us out...

Of course, Brad Pennington could challenge these ratios, too...
(Last check, 34 IP, 11 (!) H, 33 BB, 53 K)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bruce 'Slower than Sam Horn' Hasch              hasch@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu
Brad Pennington Fan Club                        O's all the way in '92?????
Scarily close to giving up on the O's for this season...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: sgs@milton.u.washington.edu (Steven Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Birthdays
Date: 15 Sep 92 17:41:11 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

Baseball Birthdays

September 15
Gaylord Perry, 1938 (HOF)
Fritz Ostermueller, 1907
Frank Linzy, 1940
Harry McCurdy, 1900 (or possibly 1899)
John "Bud" Clancy, 1900
Hugh McQuillan, 1897
Jean Dubuc, 1889

It would appear that after enjoying considerable popularity around the
turn of the century, September 15 is now thoroughly out of fashion as a
baseball birthday.

--Steve
-- 
 sgs@u.washington.edu             * 
 Steve Smith                      * "We want a pitcher, not a belly itcher." 
 University of Washington HR-20   *    			-- Bill Plummer
 Seattle, WA 98195                * 		
Organization: Senior, Electrical and Computer Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 01:21:05 -0400 
From: Amit Likhyani <al1x+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: RC/27 for CFs

Excerpts from netnews.rec.sport.baseball: 11-Sep-92 RC/27 for CFs by
Nelson Lu@leland.Stanfor 
> NATIONAL LEAGUE                 RC/27   "VALUE"
> Andy Van Slyke, Pittsburgh      8.59    4.10
> Brett Butler, Los Angeles       6.77    2.48
> Deion Sanders, Atlanta          6.66    0.94
> Reggie Sanders, Cincinnati      6.59    1.04    ; + value as LF; cf. Karros
> Lenny Dykstra, Philadelphia     6.58    1.47
> Ray Lankford, St. Louis         6.30    1.96


The Pirates sure did sign the wrong guy.  They lead the league in runs
scored.  They are in first place.  The Mets stink.  Nothing has changed
since last year, despite a big signing.
From: psg+@pitt.edu (Paul S Galvanek)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Negro Leagues (WAS Re: J. Gonzales All-time HR King)
Date: 5 Sep 92 15:03:12 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <1992Sep2.193114.24090@cs.rose-hulman.edu> rickert@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (John H. Rickert) writes:
>
>How do you know that he hit 800 HRs in the Negro Leagues?
>The guys who've actually gone back and counted them have 
>found less than 200. They also found more for Mule Suttles
>and Turkey Stearnes (sp?) than for Gibson.
>

Well my grandfather confirms the existance of two of Gibson's home runs
threw the pitches himself :^)

PSG
From: rickert@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (John H. Rickert)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: roy NL
Date: 4 Sep 92 21:54:08 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.1992Sep4.215408.27162
Organization: Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology


In article <1992Sep4.205730.27736@tamsun.tamu.edu> rlopez@loanstar.tamu.edu  
(Robert Lopez) writes:

> Ok, Dr. Dave.  I'll be convinced.  Maybe.  You got me here, but
> darnit, I still want help on "The Arnsberg Rule."
> 
> Perhaps I root for Karros just because I want something to go right
> for the Dodgers.  Just a small something, but something.

I know the feeling.
Brewer fans were rooting for Pedro Garcia over Al Bumbry in '73.

john rickert
rickert@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: <None>
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 03:13:25 GMT

In article <1992Sep8.124713.852@ccsvax.sfasu.edu> z_copeab@ccsvax.sfasu.edu writes:
>In article <5463@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP>, genetic+@pitt.edu (Dr. Dave) writes:

>> In other words, 90% of the work in getting that run for the team had already
>> been done by the time the RBI man came to the plate.

>> If you always play to get that particular runner home at any cost, you'll 
>> tend to never score more than one run per inning.  Translation: you'll lose
>> a whole lot.

>	Okay, Mr. Obnoxious Baseball Guru, of the 90% of the time that the
>runner on third scores, how often is it the result of a groundout or a hit?

Who cares?  The times it's the result of a groundout, there are fewer 
additional runs in the inning.  

>I was NEVER saying that a groundout is better than a hit -- what I was saying
>was that it's important that the run is scored. I don't want that other 10% to
>occur.

How many potential runs are you willing to give up to get that sure one? 
How important is it that *that* run score *immediately*?  

You are advocating panic baseball: get that run NOW or else.  It's a
losing strategy.  

>	Runner on third, no outs isn't a very common situation. I doubt if it
>occurs as often as once a game. Saying that I'll lose 'a whole lot' based on
>what I would do in an uncommon situation is simply being silly.

Well, there are plenty of similar situations.  And playing for one run is
usually a losing move.

>>>A groundout RBI is better than a popout or strikeout.

>> But a walk is better than either.

>	Not really. The batter has failed to drive in the run, and you can't
>assume the next batter will. And there is now a chance for a DP grounder.

Well, if we started with nobody out, that *still* scores your precious run.
If it's one out, it's a risk -- but one worth taking.  

A popout or a strikeout is obviously worse than a walk, because in all
cases *except* for the DP, it robs the team of at least one chance to 
score; specifically, it keeps one batter from coming to the plate.  If 
that one extra batter reaches base (which happens about 1 time in 3,
league-wide), then ANOTHER batter gets a chance to contribute to the rally.

On average, a K or a popup lowers the runs you're likely to get in the 
inning by about 0.3.  A walk increases that expected  total by about .35.
The RBI grounder increases your expected runs by .18 -- and that includes
the one that you've scored.  *These numbers assume a runner on 3rd, no 
out.*  

With one out:
K/popup: -.5
walk:    +.2
RBI 4-3: +.2.

There, it's a wash; depends on who's coming up next. First and third,
one out is a nice place to be with your 2-3-4 hitters coming up.

Roger
From: sheehan@aludra.usc.edu (Joseph Sheehan)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Todays News (Rickey too)
Date: 15 Sep 1992 14:57:18 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu


In article <92256.173805JIMBO@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> JIMBO@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU writes:
>The San Francisco Chronicle Saturday, Sept. 12 (Letters)
>
>"Why didn't Sandy Alderson throw in Rickey Henderson for
>a dozen fungo bats and some pine tar to be named later?"

	Because that wouldn't be original. That's what they gave
        up to *acquire* Rickey back in 1989!

	Bitter? Who's bitter?    :-)

						Best,
							Joe Sheehan

> James D. Craft <JIMBO@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>

--
sheehan@aludra.usc.edu
Voice: 213 743 0456
From: dzappala@caldera.usc.edu (Daniel Zappala)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Rafael Bournigal for Rookie of the Year!!
Date: 12 Sep 1992 18:22:53 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: world
Reply-To: dzappala@caldera.usc.edu (Daniel Zappala)
NNTP-Posting-Host: caldera.usc.edu


In article <1992Sep9.155535.9431@terminator.cc.umich.edu>, rdunkle@engin.umich.edu (R. M. Dunkle) writes:
|>
|> 	Seriously, though, I think they make you commit an error if you want
|> to play for the Dodgers. Some sort of Hazing. You have to botch one if you 
|> want to be accepted by the guys.
|> 

This doesn't have anything to do with baseball, but this reminds me of an
experience I had playing basketball in 8th grade.  Our team was not that
great, and the few good players we had constantly fouled out.  Being a 
point guard, I wasn't the type to mix it up in the middle, so I rarely
got fouls called on me.  One game, though, I got four fouls somehow,
and our bench went crazy.  When I got subbed back in the game, they were
all cheering me, telling me to go get my fifth foul and join the fraternity.
Even the coach was encouraging me to do this!! Feeling the need for acceptance 
(and we were WAY behind), I went in there and started hacking away.  I went
in for rebounds and just started clobbering guys.  They'd go up for a shot,
and I'd hack away.  Apparently, though, the refs were so used to me not
getting fouls that they just didn't call anything!!  I was practically hitting
these guys, and nothing at all was called...

The bench jockeys were rolling in laughter...


Daniel

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: chee1l5@jetson.uh.edu (Sam Lane)
Subject: Re: Times on Base: all-time records and Frank Thomas
Organization: Univ. of Houston, Dept. of Chem. Eng.
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 15:49:35 GMT

In article <5580@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP>, genetic+@pitt.edu (Dr. Dave) writes:
> 
> Here are, as best I can find them, the all-time records for career times
> reaching base (H+BB+HBP), and times reaching base per game (among players
> with at least 3000 times reaching base).
> 

If you include HBP, then why don't you include reaching on errors and reaching on a fielder's
choice?  They include the same amount of skill (none).


Sam
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: chee1l5@jetson.uh.edu (Sam Lane)
Subject: Re: Times on Base: all-time records and Frank Thomas
Organization: Univ. of Houston, Dept. of Chem. Eng.
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 19:18:49 GMT

>In article <37806@sdcc12.ucsd.edu>, demers@cs.ucsd.edu (David DeMers) writes: 
> >In article <1992Sep8.154935.16353@menudo.uh.edu> chee1l5@jetson.uh.edu (Sam Lane) writes:
> >>In article <5580@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP>, genetic+@pitt.edu (Dr. Dave) writes:
>   
> I tend to think that reaching on errors should be included as
> time on base, but the information is hard to get.  However, reaching
> by FC is substantially different from the others in nature - it
> results in an out.  By "times reaching base", I think Dr. Dave is
> looking at "PA which don't result in an out".

I agree that reaching on a FC is totally worthless, so we can disgard that immediately.  I just 
mentioned it because it is a "time on base".
The thing that rubs me is that guys who bust their ass to beat out a bobbled ball get no credit, while
Don Baylor gets credit for having a bullseye painted on his back.

> 
> btw, if HBP includes no skill, how come Ron Hunt/Don Baylor
> always led in the category?  
> 

Getting hit with a pitch intentionally is extremely stupid. The probability of getting injured and being
out of the lineup for weeks or months (thus hurting your team), far outweighs the benefit of 
reaching base a few more times.  There was a rash of people injured earlier this year while being hit
by pitches, Larkin comes to mind immediately.  Are you saying you think a team would perform
better if the players were coached to be hit by pitches rather than avoid them ? 

Sam
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: roy NL
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 92 17:11:16 GMT

In article <1992Sep8.153300.1877@island.COM> fester@island.COM (Mike Fester) writes:
>
>In any event, it really doesn't matter. Sanders is a quality CF, in a hitters'
>park. He deserves CONSIDERATION for the ROY, but he IS a part-timer. 

So, we should give Karros the ROY just because he plays everyday?  This same
logic gave Walt Weiss the ROY over Bryan Harvey in '88.

The question is, how much is Karros helping the team by playing everyday?  Not
much, judging from the fact that he is *below average* for a first baseman.
Sanders, although he only plays 65% of the time, contributes much more, since
he is *way* above average.  Similar, although a smaller case, for Alou.

And, should we punish Sanders for Lou Piniella's stupidity?

===============================================================================
GO CALIFORNIA ANGELS!
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)
From: sullis@RPI.EDU (Sean C. Sullivan)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: REPOST:  Information on the National Baseball Library
Date: 9 Sep 92 16:30:11 GMT


============================================
Information on the National Baseball Library
============================================

   The National Baseball Library is located in Cooperstown, NY,
USA.  It is a public library.
   The following information was taken from a Baseball Hall
of Fame & Museum brochure:

   The Library is open for research from 9:00 A.M. to 5:00 P.M.
Monday-Friday throughout the year except for New Year's Day,
Presidents' Day, Good Friday, Memorial Day, Labor Day, Columbus Day,
Thanksgiving and Christmas.  Staff assistance for casual visitors
is available on Saturdays and Sundays 9:00 A.M. to 5:00 P.M. in the 
months of June, July and August.  Those engaged in research projects
are urged to make appointments in advance as study space is limited.

   The following library services are available:

Reference Services -
   In person, over the telephone or through the mails.  Write:
   Librarian, National Baseball Library, National Baseball Hall of
   Fame and Museum, Inc., P.O. Box 590, Cooperstown, NY 13326.
   (607) 547-2101

Photocopy Services -
   The library will provide photocopies of library material to
   researchers for a nominal fee.

Photo Reproduction Service -
   An extensive collection of baseball photos including over 150,000
   images of players, teams, stadia, and events in color and black
   and white is available for research.  Reproductions are available
   for a fee.  Write for details.

Genealogy Research -
   Files are maintained containing biographical information on
   major league players, managers, coaches, umpires, executives,
   broadcasters, sportswriters, and other baseball personalities.
   Limited records for minor league players are also available in
   many cases.  We solicit your cooperation in obtaining additional
   material on a given player.

Collections -
   Library collections include baseball literature, periodicals,
   documents, newspapers, guides, team publications, biographical
   files, player records, subject files, scrapbooks, box scores,
   statistics, correspondence and archives, autographs, scorecards,
   programs, schedules, cartoon art, poetry, sheet music, phonograph
   records, audio recordings, film, video recordings and microfilms.


---
-Sean Sullivan
 sullis@rpi.edu
From: uzogg@mcl.ucsb.edu (Kevin Galinsky)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Robin Yount
Keywords: 3000 Hits!
Date: 11 Sep 92 06:26:09 GMT
Distribution: na

Here is a list of his milestone hits:


No. 1 -- April 12, 1974 vs. Baltimore, 4th inning single off Dave McNally

No. 500 -- July 13, 1977 vs New York, 3rd inning single off Don Gullett

No. 1000 -- August 16, 1980 at Cleveland, 4th inning double off Sandy Wihtol

No. 1500 -- August 25, 1983 vs California, 5th inning double off Tommy John

No. 2000 -- September 6, 1986 vs Cleveland, 7th inning single off Don
		Schultze

No. 2500 -- July 2, 1989 at New York, 5th inning single off Jimmy Jones

No. 3000 -- September 9, 1992 vs Cleveland, 7th inning single off Jose Mesa


These were printed in today's Los Angeles Times.

On ESPN tonight they said that he has gotten his hits against a total of
673 different pitchers.


  --  Kevin Galinsky



Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball