From: alan@osf.org (Alan Hamilton)
Subject: Re: Gender and Bi Groups
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 23:04:46 GMT

bryant@icd.teradyne.com writes:
>The result was that Biversity had members of at least four genders by
>the end of the summer.  I have heard comments from some of these people
>(and from TV and TS members) that this is the first group of any
>sexuality where they ever felt truely welcomed and comfortable.

daveb@harlqn.co.uk (Dave Berry) writes:
>Could you clarify what you mean by "genders" here?  Are you referring
>to karotype, or what?  Some TS's refer to themselves as a third sex,
>are they included in your definition?

bryant@icd.teradyne.com writes:
>I had to look up the word karyotype in the dictionary.

Me, too.  And anyone else still reading this thread probably had as
much difficulty as I had remembering what I was told in high school
biology class about 'karotype' and 'phenotype'.

Karotype: the chromosomal characteristics of a cell, or the
chromosomes themselves, or a representation of them.

Phenotype: the visible properties of an organism that are produced by
the interaction of the genotype and the environment.

bryant@icd.teradyne.com writes:
> I was equating gender and karyotype.

daveb@harlqn.co.uk (Dave Berry) writes:
>It's interesting to compare this approach with the approach that Alan
>uses in his glossary of terms about sexual and gender identity.  Would
>either of you like to comment?

bryant@icd.teradyne.com writes:
>I don't have Alan's definitions handy...  Comments, Alan?

There are several layers here:

:Karotype: the chromosomal characteristics of a cell, or the
chromosomes themselves, or a representation of them.  One of several
combinations of X, Y and O (missing) sex chromosomes.

:Phenotype: The visible properties of an organism that are produced by
the interaction of the genotype and the environment.  Whether you are
physically male, female, neuter, or hermaphrodite.  (The Glossary's
definition of "sex" corresponds to phenotype.)

:Gender assigned at birth: Based on what they could tell about your
phenotype at birth, whether everyone around you decided to train you
and treat you as masculine or feminine.  (These are called "genetic
male/female", but are based on the phenotype.)

:Gender identity: Whether you, personally, feel masculine, feminine,
or androgynous (or none of the above.)

One's sexual identity (most commonly heterosexual, gay/lesbian,
bisexual, or asexual) is usually based on:

  o One's own gender identity.

  o The apparent gender role and/or gender identity and/or phenotype
of those to whom one is romantically or sexually attracted.  (Some
people are attracted to butches or femmes, whether male or female;
some are attracted to people who identify as men or as women; some are
attracted to penis/balls or vagina/clitoris/breasts and don't care
about the gender role or gender identity of their partner.  Many
construct their requirements on the basis of a combination of
phenotype, gender identity, and gender role.)

  o The importance that these attractions or relationships have for
one.  For instance, one might have sex with both women and men, but
only place importance on one's sexual relationships with members of
the other sex, and therefore consider oneself heterosexual.

In other words, when one thinks of the many layers involved, sexual
identity is something of a house of cards: built on the constructs of
gender identity, gender role, and phenotype; all of which are built on
top of the many possible values of karotype.

 -Alan