Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: what give's? (was: There used to be someone called Michael Traub)
Date: 07 Sep 92  19:23:51 mst

 > From: tiff@kona.cs.ucla.edu (Tiffany Frazier)
 > Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
 > Subject: Re: what give's? (was: There used to be
 > someone called Michael Traub)
 > Organization: UCLA, Computer Science Department
 > Date: Tue, 1 Sep 92 23:13:10 GMT

 > Abhay Bulsari VT (abulsari@abo.fi) wrote:
 > : I got this in the mail this morning. I have not corrected
 > : any mistakes I have noticed in it (e.g. Michael is vegan, not
                                ^^^
 > : just vegetarian).
 > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 > Why is this necessary?  If one is fixated with labels
 > one can simply state "Michael is vegan." - adding the ",
 > not just  vegetarian" can only be meant to denegrate
 > vegetarians.  (An odd thing for this group I might add.)

Within my own experience, very few vegtarians seem to be the pompous, self- aggrandizing, opininated zealots that we have been 'treated' to here.  Is it "necessary"?  I hope not -- I don't like 'petulant children', either.

 > I truly can not believe what has been going on in this
 > newsgroup.

Nor I -- there are four to six(?) people here that have appointed themselves judge, jury, and executioner; we now also have an 'official scorekeeper' (also self-appointed, of course) to rack up whatever 'brownie points' may be garnered by whatever self-righteous, self-appointed 'minor deity' proclaiming themselves to be this week's 'winner'.

 > From what I can garner we have vegetarians/vegans/people/whatever
 > refusing to post for fear? of being flamed/insulted/having their
 > egos bruised (pick most appropriate one, I truly don't know which);

I presume it's because most people just don't need the hassle.  Mercifully, some people still post recipes through all the 'noise', and *they* are the reason that most of us just don't disconnect ourselves from rec.food.veg.

 > some people advocating a maintaining and posting a list where
 > everyone is appropriately labelled (too bad we can't make people
 > sew armbands on their clothes); some people advocating censorship/
 > expulsion of those who don't fit it/don't belong (the ones with
 > armbands in case you didn't know); some people demanding public
 > apologies for sideways glances (and worse, I concede); and so
 > on, and so on.

Yup -- ad nauseum.  ;-)

I presume they're 'warming up' for the [cook]book burning...  ;->

 > Everyone has a right to say just about whatever they want in just
 > about whatever way they want to... and that seems (to me) to be
 > entirely appropriate.   If this is not desireable then one should
 > do a call to moderate this newsgroup (however one does that, I
 > don't know) and see what happens.

A moderated newsgroup would be a major blessing.  I suspect that the calls for a 'rec.food.veg.recipes' newsgroup is symptomatic of many people's dissatisfaction with what's going on.  Presumably, everyone here has a common interest -- vegetarianism.  Why is it so hard for some people to 'get along', then?

The ones that I feel particularly sorry for are the people that are 'nascent vegetarians' -- those that 'arrive' here seeking help or advice, uncertain if this is something that they can make into a viable lifestyle.  What they see is (or ought to be) an embarrassment to anyone that associates 'rational' with the word 'vegetarian'.

 > Some of the things I've been reading are making me wonder if there
 > aren't a surprising number of intolerant, childish, cliquish, and
 > close-minded people on this group.  What gives?  I'd prefer to imagine
 > that this is not the case and would suggest simply setting an example
 > via one's postings rather than participating in this seemingly ridiculous
 > and unending escalation of words.

Most people grow up -- but some don't.  :-<

 > As an example - if "you" (whoever) think that Dyer is misinformed/
 > being a jerk/whatever then how about a rational post pointing out
 > the misinformation... By directing the subject towards the real _content_
 > of the posts then maybe we all could learn something from some healthy
 > arguing!!

I'm willing to listen to anything that's a rationally-based discourse and welcome the ability to discuss almost any topic intelligently.  Before that becomes possible here, a couple of children are going to have to let go of their egos; when that happens, *everyone* will benefit.

I hope I live to see it -- this newsgroup has the potential of doing vegetarianism a major service by promoting it as *the* rational choice of 'alternative' lifestyle.  IMHO, no one that's involved in these 'rants and raves' is going to convince anyone else of anything positive about either vegetarianism or vegetarians, and we're all going to be tarred with the same brush.  |-(

 > Well - I feel better now, anyway.

Hang in there, Tiffany -- maybe they'll all insult each other so badly, they'll all go play elsewhere...  ;-)


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