HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ceci@lysator.liu.se (Ceci Henningsson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Election Fraud by the Conservatives
Date: 15 Apr 92 18:41:02 GMT
Organization: Lysator Computer Club, Linkoping University, Sweden

Jim Reid and Nick Haines write:

>      As far as I know, no poll tax collectors use the electoral roll to
>      gather names and addresses.

>   Council officials maintain that there are "fireproof walls" between
>   the staff working on these two tasks. However,  it stretches
>   credibility to accept that the staff don't/won't share information or
>   that the Poll Tax computers don't look at the Electoral Roll computers

Isn't there something like the German informational right to
self-decision (informationelles Selbstbestimmungsrecht) in the UK? The
German right to information self-decision is valid aswell for
computerized data as for traditional card-index systems. It states
that authorities musn't collect or trade information about the
citizens without their expressed consent.

An example of the opposite is Sweden. Here the authorities are allowed
to trade information about aswell single citizens as groups of
citizens. They are even allowed to sell the information to companies.

--Ceci

--
=====ceci@lysator.liu.se===========================================
water-colour n. artists' paint mixed with water (not oil); 
			From The Oxford Guide to the English Language
===================================================================
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: goddard+@cs.cmu.edu (Nigel Goddard)
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Election Results
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 14:01:04 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

Woe unto us!  I spent the evening listening to the results on 
the World Service with a group of fellow Brits.  Stunned disbelief,
followed by gnashing of teeth.  One woman announced she is no
longer British.  Those who had thought of returning from exile
will remain abroad.  Those who had thought they were abroad
temporarily will reconsider.

Nigel

-- 
Nigel Goddard
goddard@b.gp.cs.cmu.edu

Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,soc.culture.celtic,uk.politics
From: cockburn@majors.enet.dec.com (Craig Cockburn)
Subject: New cross party pressure group for Scottish Home Rule
Organization: Digital Equipment Co. Ltd., Newbury, England
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 09:57:16 GMT


From Scotland on Sunday, 12-Apr-92, P1

New pressure group in push for referendum

The political initiative in Scotland was seized from the mainstream parties
yesterday by a new pressure group which plans a series of massive rallies
and protests to demand a multi-option referendum on the future of Scotland.

As the Labour party issued a warning against taking "ill-conceived" action
in the immediate aftermath of the election, two of its MPs helped to
launch the new organisation, Scotland United, with an appeal for a 
united campaign by opposition groups in Scotland.

The new group is a "rainbow coalition" including Labour MPs, leading
members of the Liberal Democrats, trade union leaders and SNP supporting
musicians such as Pat Kane of Hue and Cry and Ricky Ross of Deacon Blue.
It is calling on Scots who are dismayed and angered at the outcome of
the General Election to gather in Glasgow's George Square at 5m this
afternoon for the first in what is expected to be a series of rallies
around Scotland, with a referendum as the central demand.

At its official launch yesterday Labour MP George Galloway said the
organisation was being created to build bridges between the country's
divided political groupings. Dundee East MP John McAllion said the
people of Scotland were fed up with the parties fighting each other.
"No party on its own can deliver to the Scottish people. I will not
wait another five years. Action now." The other Labour MPs to join
the grouping are Denis Canavan and Willie McKelvey

Pledging a mass demonstration in Edinburgh to beseige the Scottish
Office, Galloway invoked the spirit of the mass protests in Leipzig
and Prague which foreshadowed the collapse of one-party government
in East Germany and Czechoslavakia.

The case for a multi-option referendum was also being pushed yesterday
by the SNP

(the article goes on, this is about half of it)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Craig Cockburn, Digital Equipment Co. Ltd, Newbury, England.  
  ARPAnet: cockburn@majors.enet.dec.com                            Saor
  UUCP:..!decwrl!majors.enet.dec.com!cockburn                      Alba!

  Views here are my own, and are not necessarily those of Digital
Xref: sparky soc.culture.british:6161 rec.arts.books:7840
From: goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: ENGLISH AS SHE IS SPOKE
Date: 12 Apr 92 11:36:24 GMT
Article-I.D.: agate.s97boINNpui
Reply-To: goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb)
Organization: The Sinister Icy Black Hand of Death Club
NNTP-Posting-Host: hailstorm.berkeley.edu
Originator: goldfarb@hailstorm.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Apr10.030105.13771@oracorp.com> harper@oracorp.com (Douglas Harper) writes:
)-- 
)Douglas Harper          harper@oracorp.com      (607) 277-6093 [ext 252]
)#
)Question for the net:  who said of the Holy Roman Empire that it was
)neither holy, nor Roman, nor an empire?

	Wasn't it Voltaire?

	(If not, then it must've been Disraeli. :-)

-- 
David Goldfarb    goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu   (Insert standard disclaimer)
"Yes, netrek is very relaxing. The beauty, the calmness. It is being used
experimentally to reduce blood pressure in patients at the Mayo Clinic."
			-- Mark Hall, on alt.games.xtrek
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: livesey@solntze.esd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)
Subject: Re: British Bill: of Rights? of Goods?
Organization: sgi
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 92 23:50:51 GMT

In article <1992Apr14.111556.8141@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>, baker@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Andrew Baker) writes:
|>
|> If you are "arguing against the notion that a written Constitution
|> immunizes you against such high jinks", then I am not necessarily
|> disagreeing with you.  I was just referring to one aspect of a
|> Constitution: election rules.  I think it makes sense to say that
|> simply winning the election does not give you the right to modify
|> the election rules in a fundamental way.  On the other hand, if the
|> U.S. Government *does* want to modify the rules, there is a well-defined
|> (and arduous) procedure to follow.

Yet you are forgetting that the US does change the rules.  One of
the current scandals in the US is the way that boundaries are changed.
Too often, boundary commissions are dominated by a single party, which
then goes ahead and changes boundaries to favour the election of the
incumbent, or of a particualr racial minority, or whatever.   Quite
often it's done with the best of motives, but it leaves to election
districts which are clearly very peculiar, and I think most people
would admit that the motive, one way or another, is to influence the
election result.

|> 
|> To put it another way, a U.S. President might unilaterally declare
|> himself "President for Life", and the Constitution wouldn't leap
|> to battle and beat him up, but at least people would know that rules
|> were being broken.  The peculiar thing about Britain is that it is
|> not clear what rules would be broken by the ruling party rigging
|> the game in its favor.  Suppose one government votes for PR
|> in order to increase its chances of being reelected.  Then finally
|> after many years, the other party takes control, and then changes it
|> back to the old way!  Are they breaking the rules or not?  Your
|> answer seems to be that this depends on the good judgment of the
|> MPs and ultimately the Queen.  Which is fine I guess, but peculiar
|> from an American perspective.

The only thing that is peculiar, really, is that Americans think that 
they can define a set of "rules", and that having those rules in the
Constitution makes them special.   We have rules too, and they are to
a large extent written down.   We just don't enshrine them in a single 
document.

jon.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: ST402679@brownvm.brown.edu (Simon Bandler)
Subject: The Green Party
Organization: Brown University
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 12:39:58 GMT

I was just wondering, from these fields afar remote, as to what what to those
Greens in this most recent election of April 9. Do they now command such little
support as to not justify even a mention on the net ? Under 1% ?

I dont think they are about to start a new revolution, but surely their message
should still be considered seriously.
From: traub@rtf.bt.co.uk (Michael Traub)
Newsgroups: uk.politics,soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Simple message
Date: 10 Apr 92 13:12:59 GMT
Organization: BT Customer Systems, Brighton, UK

In article <1992Apr10.102148.23170@cl.cam.ac.uk> mrw@cl.cam.ac.uk (Michael Warner) writes:
>In article <1992Apr9.080008.15420@rtf.bt.co.uk> traub@rtf.bt.co.uk (Michael Traub) writes:
>>Just in case you really are, people on low incomes spend a far higher
>>proportion of their salary on mortgages than people on higher incomes.
>>This is fact, if you don't believe me check with your building society.
>
>And mortgages are non-VAT.   Therefore, the above would suggest that
>the rich pay proportionally more VAT.   What non-VAT goods are rich
>people buying proportionally far more more of ?

Explain your quantum leap in deductive logic, why would the rich pay
proportionally more VAT because they pay proportionally less on a mortgage?


-- 
Michael Traub
BT Customer Systems, Brighton Systems Centre. traub@rtf.bt.co.uk
Newsgroups: uk.politics,soc.culture.british
From: sp@mirabeau.osf.fr (Simon Patience)
Subject: Re: Simple message
Reply-To: sp@mirabeau.osf.fr (Simon Patience)
Organization: OSF Research Institute
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 12:18:14 GMT

In article <1992Apr9.075013.15123@rtf.bt.co.uk>, traub@rtf.bt.co.uk
(Michael Traub) writes:
> In article <1992Apr8.181241.7526@maths.nott.ac.uk>
anw@maths.nott.ac.uk (Dr A. N. Walker) writes:
> >In article <1992Apr8.080132.8373@rtf.bt.co.uk>
traub@rtf.bt.co.uk(Michael Traub) writes:
> >>From your own examples I can see no mention of A spending thity times
> >>as much as B on VAT rated goods. Wanna try again?
> >
> >	Computers, restaurant meals, payments to travel agents aren't
> >VAT rated?  I'm unfamiliar with the details of the "tax" on wine and
> >on cars, but I'm certain that there are such costs, whether of not
> >they are called VAT.
> >
> He has *thirty* times as many computers? *Thirty* times as many cars?

Don't be stupid, You asked for examples of items he spent 30 times,
which he gave you.

> I admit he may have thirty times as many meals in a restaurant. However
> in case your maths is that poor, there is a lot more VAT revenue made on
> a computer or a car than on a meal in a restaurant.

Surely it depends on how much you spend on each item annually rather
than a one off shot. People go out for meals rather more often than they
buy a car/computer.

> >>Try telling the truth?
> >
> >	I don't recall ever being called a liar in public before.  As an
> >academic, my reputation is quite important to me.  Do you really want a
> >civilised debate, or do we degenerate into slanging?
> >
> Whatever you prefer, just don't lie to make a point, or do you insist
> that your friend has thirty cars?

I think it was you that insisted on that. I think you should try telling
the truth.

Simon.

  Simon Patience
  Open Software Foundation			Phone: +33-76-63-48-72
  Research Institute				FAX:   +33-76-51-05-32
  2 Avenue De Vignate				Email: sp@gr.osf.org
  38610 Gieres, France				       uunet!gr.osf.org!sp
Xref: sparky soc.culture.british:6644 rec.arts.books:8115
From: soren@bu-geo.bu.edu (Soren Ryherd)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: ENGLISH AS SHE IS SPOKE
Summary: N.E. oddities
Keywords: grinders,subs,heroes,package stores,spas,tonic
Date: 16 Apr 92 21:16:23 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.british
Organization: Boston University

In article <WARK.92Apr14135421@gandalf.think.com> wark@gandalf.think.com (Mark Warkentin) writes:
>In article <1992Apr14.123955.5987@athena.mit.edu> terra@athena.mit.edu (Terra Witkop) writes:
>
>   In article <kujhdnINNtd@early-bird.think.com> wark@think.com (Mark Warkentin) writes:
>   >Here in beanytown lots of the locals use the word "tonic".  Anyone heard of
>   >the usage elswhere?
>   >-- 
>
>   I've been living in Metro-Boston for almost 4 years, and have *very*
>   rarely heard anyone refer to soda (I grew up in Western Mass., where
>   all fizzy drinks are soda) as "tonic"; maybe I heard this once or
>   twice from my ex-SO's mother, who grew up in Revere.  When I went to
>   UMASS-Amherst, there were a lot of students from Boston, and I had
>   to get used to referring to grinders as "subs" -- now the word
>   "grinder" sounds weird to me...
>
>May be just a north shore phenomenon.  In Malden - Melrose where I've lived
>for  6 years, it's all they use.

At the local market here in Brighton (West Boston) the carbonated drinks
are all lumped under the "tonic" sign.  Other things I've noticed as
unusual N.E. lingo are package store for liquor store, spa for
convenience store, and the aforementioned sub, which I knew as a "hero"
growing up on the west coast.  I think someone already mentioned the
local "frappe" for a milkshake, although I think some would argue that
they are two different things.  On the ice cream front, people here also
ask for two "dips" of ice cream, rather than two "scoops", which I found
odd.  One other thing I noticed is that people don't use the word
"freeway" much here, perhaps because the local six-laner isn't.  Free,
that is.
-- 
-Soren Ryherd			soren@bu-geo.bu.edu
 Boston University Center for Remote Sensing
 "Verbosity leads to unclear, inarticulate things." - Dan Quayle
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: evansg@uproar.enet.dec.com (Gwyn Evans @ IME)
Subject: Re: Election Fraud by the Conservatives
Keywords: Poll Tax
Reply-To: evansg@uproar.enet.dec.com (Gwyn Evans @ IME)
Organization: Digital Equipment Service Industries Solutions Company Ltd
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 15:06:56 GMT


In article <1992Apr10.102209.22158@osf.org>, david@guadet.gr.osf.org (David
George) writes:
A dissapointed Labour voting friend of mine claims that "Labour was robbed"
by  
>the poll tax.  He says Labour would have one but for the 'million Labour
>voters  
>who couldn't afford to register to vote".  In view of the 77.5% turn out
>is  
>there any truth in this ?

   Hard to tell, as if they don't register for the Poll Tax, they wouldn't
register for the voting lists and thus wouldn't be counted amoung the 22.5%
(or whatever value it ends up as) who didn't turn out.
   Comparisons with '87 regarding turnout _may_ be skewed by the fact that
yesterday had extremely good weather over most/all of the country and while
I think that the weather in '87 was quite good locally, I don't think that
applied nationally.

Gwyn 
--
+======================================================================+
| Gwyn Evans  | evansg@uproar.enet.dec.com |  Uxbridge, Middlesex, UK  |
| DESISCo - Digital Equipment Service Industries Solutions Company Ltd |
|  Views expressed and statements made are mine and not those of DEC   |
+======================================================================+
From: strgh@warwick.ac.uk (J E H Shaw)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Majorities
Date: 16 Apr 92 13:04:17 GMT
Organization: Computing Services, Warwick University, UK

For a little light relief, here's a song I wrote while an undergraduate
in 1974(?) during the run-up to the election between, in the red corner,
Harold `pipe-smoking' Wilson and, in the blue corner, Ted `Grocer' Heath.
The standard of debate had been similar to that in the recent election,
full of `did - didn't, is - isn't's, character assassinations, tabloid
panics about Labour leads in some polls, etc., all with a rather depressing
backdrop of fuel strikes, rail strikes etc. etc.

THE MAJORITY
  (to the tune of Jefferson Airplane's `White Rabbit')

One poll says it's larger,
And one poll says it's small,
And the one that Marplan gives you
Is the biggest con of all,
Go ask Gallup,
They're on the ball.

And if you go voting Labour,
Then the country's going to fall,
For that hookah-smoking caterpillar
Is grosser than them all,
Go ask Harris,
He's ten feet tall.

When the crumbs left on the cheeseboard
Are the only food you know,
Or you're sitting in the front room
And the fire is burning low,
Just blame ASLEF,
When they go slow.

If wage-claims and inflation
Increase the price of bread,
It's the Marxists on the shop-floor
And the reds under the bed;
Remember what the Tories said -
Vote for Ted
Vote for Ted.

       -- Ewart `Plus c,a change' Shaw

ObDisclaimer: Don't blame me, I've never voted for them.
-- 
J.E.H.Shaw,  Department of Statistics, |  JANET:  strgh@uk.ac.warwick.csv
             University of Warwick,    |  BITNET: strgh%uk.ac.warwick.csv@UKACRL
             Coventry  CV4 7AL,  U.K.  |  PHONE:  +44 203 523069
$$\times\times\qquad\top\gamma\alpha\omega\exists\qquad{\odot\odot\atop\smile}$$
From: anw@maths.nott.ac.uk (Dr A. N. Walker)
Newsgroups: uk.politics,soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Simple message
Date: 8 Apr 92 18:12:41 GMT
Reply-To: anw@maths.nott.ac.uk (Dr A. N. Walker)
Organization: Maths Dept., Nott'm Univ., UK.

In article <1992Apr8.080132.8373@rtf.bt.co.uk> traub@rtf.bt.co.uk
(Michael Traub) writes:

>Freom your own examples I can see no mention of A spending thity times
>as much as B on VAT rated goods. Wanna try again?

	Computers, restaurant meals, payments to travel agents aren't
VAT rated?  I'm unfamiliar with the details of the "tax" on wine and
on cars, but I'm certain that there are such costs, whether of not
they are called VAT.

>Try telling the truth?

	I don't recall ever being called a liar in public before.  As an
academic, my reputation is quite important to me.  Do you really want a
civilised debate, or do we degenerate into slanging?

>>	       How much do you think your expenditure on luxury goods would
>>decline *now* if your income were slashed by 97%?
>>
>It wouldn't change at all. I have all the luxury goods I require already
>(and I bought most of them while I was a student).

	In that case, you are still spending thirty times as much as you
would if on the smaller income.  But I would be surprised if you currently
buy negligible quantities of VAT-rated goods, and even more surprised if
you wouldn't reconsider your household expenditure in the light of a cut
in income.

-- 
Andy Walker, Maths Dept., Nott'm Univ., UK.
anw@maths.nott.ac.uk
Xref: sparky soc.culture.british:6642 alt.society.civil-liberty:3517 misc.legal:9385 talk.politics.misc:18512
From: sasafw@dobo.unx.sas.com (Fred Welden)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,alt.society.civil-liberty,misc.legal,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: British Bill: of Rights? of Goods?
Date: 16 Apr 92 19:06:40 GMT
    <1992Apr15.140429.581@CERIS.Purdue.EDU> 
    <1g7wKk#0qW3125rwrX46khOrq5BQ5YL=eric@snark.thyrsus.com>
Organization: SAS Institute Inc.
Originator: sasafw@dobo.unx.sas.com
X-Bytes: 1414

In article <1g7wKk#0qW3125rwrX46khOrq5BQ5YL=eric@snark.thyrsus.com>, eric@snark.thyrsus.com (Eric S. Raymond) writes:
|The U.K. is not a constitutional republic.  Americans find this difficult to
|remember, because the British system seems superficially so much like ours.  But
|the British rely much more than us on the "common law", a body of statute and
|(often unwritten) tradition with roots going back to the Anglo-Saxon folkmoots
|and even earlier Germanic tribal law (which is why the descriptions of legal
|proceedings in the Icelandic sagas from c.1000 can sound more familiar than
|modern judicial transcripts from a "civil law" country like France).

Don't forget the civil-law state of Louisiana, as well.  My understanding
of Louisiana law is that it is based on Napoleonic civil code and the
concepts of common law and judicial precedent carry very little weight
there.  In some cases, this works out better for the people--each judge
must judge according to the letter of the law, not the letter of the
law and all subsequent interpretations of it by previous judges.  In
other cases, perhaps not so well.  Divorces and inheritances there seem
pretty weird to non-Louisianans.

But then, Louisianans seem pretty weird to non-Louisianans.  I know,
I'm from New Orleans myself. :)




-- 
--Fred, or another blind 8th-century BC  |  sasafw@dobo.unx.sas.com
        Hellenic poet of the same name.  |
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,alt.politics.british
From: jac61@cas.org ()
Subject: Re: Rampant paranoia (was Voting slips: what happens to them,DANGER!)
Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service, Columbus, Ohio
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 10:59:28 GMT

In article <1992Apr7.112804.8339@aber.ac.uk> dpl@aber.ac.uk (David Philip Langstaff) writes:
>In article <1992Apr7.083816.26697@tcom.stc.co.uk> jes@tcom.stc.co.uk (JES) writes:
>>In article <1992Apr04.213121.8468@robobar.co.uk> gtoal@robobar.co.uk (Graham Toal "gtoal@vangogh.cs.berkeley.edu") writes:
>>>OK, what you missed (and haven't noticed any time you voted) is that
>>>when you go to vote, they find your name in a large book.
>>
>>The book is electoral register.  This is the means by which you are
>>'ticked off' when you vote, so that you cannot vote more than once.  You
>>cannot vote at a polling station where you are not on the register (for
>>that station).

	[Stuff about the mechanics of voting deleted]
>
>So, in summary, if TPTB want to find out how you, or anybody else, voted, all
>they have to do is look in the piles of ballot papers and do a little matching
>up. However, the information they might get from this would, of course, not
>be much use as to divuldge it would cause all sorts of ructions. Still,
>checking ballot papers for CPGB & NF candidates may be part of the secret
>vetting procedures - who knows ?
>
>
	Having had dealings with security clearances and background checks
	and so on, I keep asking myself why this should be so important?

	If the powers that be are interested in digging up something on you
	they'll usually start with your bank account.  Then they'll start
	talking to neighbours and friends and checking your tax and police
	records.  My recollection is that MI5 (for want of a better term) has
	the various minority political parties well enough covered to be able
	to find out if you are a member, a secret member, or a sympathiser.

	This sort of information is more likely to indicate that you're up to
	no good than your voting record will.  Also, if you don't vote there is
	no record to check.

	Any intelligent subversive grouping is going to tell its members to
	dissociate itself in public from them and even vote against them.
	Remember the Prime case?  Working for the Soviets at GCHQ and strongly
	anti-union?

	The only real problem would be if you tell "them" that you voted one
	way when you voted another.  In most countries lying to a government
	officers in the course of business is illegal.  If you're daft
	enough to lie about these things then you're probably too daft to be
	trusted anyway.

	Alec Chambers.

	Don't blame me, I voted Labour.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.british:6430 alt.society.civil-liberty:3459
From: lee@wang.com (Lee Story)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,alt.society.civil-liberty
Subject: Re: British Bill: of Rights? of Goods?
Date: 14 Apr 92 19:53:09 GMT
	<1992Apr7.164634.9611@Csli.Stanford.EDU>
	<1992Apr12.214458.16901@yang.earlham.edu>
	<RJC.92Apr13204605@brodie.cstr.ed.ac.uk>
Organization: Wang Laboratories, Inc.


(Richard Caley) writes:
   I really, really, like the fact that the House of Lords could find a
   man guilty of raping his wife dispite the fact that it is clearly not
   illegal.

This is fine as long as the Lords cannot also prescribe a penalty for
the non-crime.  However heinous the deed, there is good reason for
the prohibition against ex post facto criminal law which is part of
the US Bill of Rights.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Lee Story (lee@wang.com) Wang Laboratories, Inc.
              (Merrimack Valley Paddlers)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: uk.politics,soc.culture.british