HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: nninja@nyx.cs.du.edu (Net Ninja)
Subject: Alt.Industrial
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix @ U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 04:48:37 GMT

Alt.Industrial is now, suddenly a quite active group
specializing in all aspects of industrial culture including but by no
means limited to industrial processes, cyberpunk, industrial music, 
politics and lifestyle in the industrial age, and all remaining forms of
avant-garde "art" dealing specifically or allgorically with industrial
issues.

This is good!  Many people will agree that the discussion of this group
over the past 5 days has been very intriguing, educational, and enjoyable
for all participants.  However:

I have since learned, and regret to inform you, that alt.industrial is
still
techically a forum for the Industrial Computing society. (However many
people have gotten confused by this so they changed to
alt.industrial.computing.

This is good, and this is bad.  The alt.i.c. people don't seem to mind, a
d
we all like it, but the "official purpose" or whatever of the group needs
to be changed!!!

Meanwhile I invite all Denizens of Industrial Culture to check this group
out!!!  It's hapenin' man!!!  If we can keep this up we can secure a 
place for all to discuss Industrial Culture!!!!

Also, concidering the new _functional_ definition of alt.industrial, 
it seems now that we need a new FAQ.  Anybody interested in writing one,
please contact me or the alt.industrial list to share ideas.

Enjoy!

Net Ninja
p
Newsgroups: alt.industrial
From: dnakamur@nyx.cs.du.edu (Damo Nakamura)
Subject: NIN + Ministry poseurs: Not! (was: Re: Industrial Music, hey!)
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 92 01:42:24 GMT


Let me ask you this Phil:
If Ministry and NIN are not "true industrial" how could Skinny Puppy
could be considered any different?

Granted, we probably both think SP is of better quality
but come on: by your standards "Rabies" and "Too Dark Park"
are sort of "clicheed" and "Last Rights" could easily serve as the
new soundtrack to "Blade Runner".  Plus they're sort of popular.

You see, with your ranting about "pop" vs. "real" industrial
you back yourself into a corner of endless classifications.
(which then lead to contradictions).

Just lighten up and listen to the music!  Granted, I know you despise
NIN and Ministry, I _still_ don't understand what makes them "not
industrial".  Ministry uses and has used guitars to express their own
version of industrial terror.  Quite effectively on their middle albums, I
might add. They also use drum machines, etc.  But who cares what they
use!!?!?! Just _listen_ before talking next time OK Phil?

P.S. Phil's insistent, oh-so -alternative behavior is exactly the same of
those "poseur-types" he slags on so much :>

DAMO LA DANCING FLATWURM
:>
W
Newsgroups: alt.industrial
From: nninja@nyx.cs.du.edu (Net Ninja)
Subject: Re: NIN + Ministry poseurs: Not!
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 92 22:14:27 GMT

In article <1992Oct12.200136.18440@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> pbancrof@nyx.cs.d
.edu (Phil Bancroft) writes:
>In article <1992Oct12.183907.14632@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> nninja@nyx.cs.du

>du (Net Ninja) writes:
>
>>"much better than rave" - hey that's not saying much!
>
>If you want to slam away as an apocalyptic gesture while mushroom
>clouds are going off - ay, those cocksuckers encroach once more
>on the intellectual abyss we all must inhabit, GO AHEAD MAKE MY DAY.
>
>I've got better things to do like, I don't know, save the universe!!!
>
>P H I L  B A N C R O F T
>PHIL AS IN PHUCK
>
>
Oh,you're so fucking pretentious. Get a sense of humor and a life.

You make Consolidated sound like a SNL act.

Sheesh.

Net Ninja
From: 01mbmccabe@bsu-ucs.uucp
Newsgroups: alt.industrial
Subject: Re: NIN + Ministry poseurs: Not!
Date: 12 Oct 92 07:29:50 GMT

In article <1992Oct12.014224.19655@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, dnakamur@nyx.cs.du.edu (Dam
> 
> P.S. Phil's insistent, oh-so -alternative behavior is exactly the same of
> those "poseur-types" he slags on so much :>
> 
> DAMO LA DANCING FLATWURM




Could be a supremity complex...
Newsgroups: alt.industrial,alt.cyberpunk
From: carlsoje@cda.mrs.umn.edu (Joel E. Carlson 1625773)
Subject: Re: Mondo 2000
Organization: University of Minnesota - Morris
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 16:29:13 GMT

In article <1992Oct13.034358.3925@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> nninja@nyx.cs.du.edu (Net Ninja) writes:
>
>Hey - here's something for industrial/"cyberpunk" culture for you.
>Has anybody else heard of this?
>
>-Mondo 2000- is a glossy, futuristic publication out of Berkeley
>specializing

Oh great another Mondo thread.  There is more to cyberpunk than a glossy
5.95 rag!


Newsgroups: alt.industrial
From: nninja@nyx.cs.du.edu (Net Ninja)
Subject: Re: NIN + Ministry poseurs: Not!
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 92 18:39:07 GMT


You're _all_ missing the pt. about NIN.  Of course you shouldn't take
NIN seriously as a political force.  It's just that Trent produces the
slamminest dance music this side of the Atlantic.  Put any NIN in a mix
with FLA, maybe DM's first album, some Front 242 and you forget everything
except how your body's shakin'.  Much better then rave!

Net Ninja
From: rht3@po.CWRU.Edu (Randall H. Thatcher)
Newsgroups: alt.industrial
Subject: Chem Lab
Date: 15 Oct 1992 06:37:54 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


Does anyone know when the album "burn out at hydrogen bar" will
come out???  I talked to jared over the summer and he said they
were about to record it, but they were having production problems.

Please E-mail me if you have heard anything!

-- 
Randall H. Thatcher                                  Uebung macht
rht3@po.CWRU.edu                                     den Meister!
tel/fax 216.754.1349
Newsgroups: alt.industrial
From: william@sage.cc.purdue.edu (jon)
Subject: Re: Industrial music, hey!
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 05:52:32 GMT

In article <1992Oct10.052002.19085@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> pbancrof@nyx.cs.du.edu (Phil Bancroft) writes:
>Hey - any of you into other stuff besided gristle?
>No, and I don't mean poseur shite like new Ministry or NIN...
>



"poseur shite"?!?!?!?

----->>>>>> yeah...... right!!!
            got a life??
            get real!
            get another!!!                                   (stolen .sig) ;)
********************************************************************************
My opinions are mine, alllllllllll MINE!  Ya hear? MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>william@sage.cc.purdue.edu<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
********************************************************************************
Newsgroups: alt.industrial
From: dskimish@nyx.cs.du.edu (David Skimishara)
Subject: MST3K?
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 92 04:45:28 GMT


okay, before anyone flames me on this, yes I _do_ know that mystery
science theater has its own newsgroup.  With that out of my way I will
continue with my story.  I have been gone to a surveyors' convention in
Arizona and while there some people introduced me to the cable tv show
mystery science theater.  At first I thought it would be another late
night Elvira clone, but nuuuuuuu!  These guys were great and after a while
their whimsical and slightly anarchistic style had left its mark on me. 
My question to you, dear net readers (who know of this show), is do you
consider mst3k industrial?  Think of it, Joel interacts with 2 evil humans
and the only companions who truely share his life with him are mechanical.
Just some food for thought.
Dave
Newsgroups: alt.industrial
From: nninja@nyx.cs.du.edu (Net Ninja)
Subject: new releases
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 92 01:45:19 GMT


I noticed at the local store that the following are "new releases"
Mute Records - Nervous Systems compilation
The Orb - Assassin single
Legendary Pink Dots - Shadow weaver
Prodigy - The Prodigy Experience



Also, 808 State's new album is supposed to be out a while ago! where is it!

Net Ninja
From: system@cyberden.uucp
Newsgroups: alt.industrial
Subject: Re: Now that I think about it
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 15:25:04 PDT
Organization: Indescribable Creations

Actually, this group has been around for years... it was supposed to be
a group for discussing industrial related items such as large scale presses,
factory equipment, etc... but has been going back and forth between that and
industrial music for ever..

You may want to also check out alt.noise

<X>orcist

__________________________________________________________________________
   |       /         |\
   | H E   \ Y B E R |/ E N            [ system@cyberden.uucp ]
Newsgroups: alt.industrial
From: pbancrof@nyx.cs.du.edu (Phil Bancroft)
Subject: Re: NIN + Ministry poseurs: Not!
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 92 20:01:36 GMT

In article <1992Oct12.183907.14632@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> nninja@nyx.cs.du.
du (Net Ninja) writes:
>
>You're _all_ missing the pt. about NIN.  Of course you shouldn't take
>NIN seriously as a political force.  It's just that Trent produces the
>slamminest dance music this side of the Atlantic.  Put any NIN in a mix
>with FLA, maybe DM's first album, some Front 242 and you forget everythi
g
>except how your body's shakin'.  Much better then rave!
>
>Net Ninja
>
>


"much better than rave" - hey that's not saying much!

If you want to slam away as an apocalyptic gesture while mushroom
clouds are going off - ay, those cocksuckers encroach once more
on the intellectual abyss we all must inhabit, GO AHEAD MAKE MY DAY.

I've got better things to do like, I don't know, save the universe!!!

P H I L  B A N C R O F T
PHIL AS IN PHUCK


Newsgroups: alt.industrial,alt.cyberpunk,alt.postmodern
From: pwh@bradley.bradley.edu (Pete Hartman)
Subject: Re: Mondo 2000
Organization: Bradley University
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 20:47:16 GMT


Gee, what cojones you have, ragging away in the far reaches.


Wouldn't want dirty diapers like you out at a rave anyway.  If you
gotta rag things to feel good about yourself, maybe you should go
see a pshrink.
-- 
Pete Hartman		       Bradley University	pwh@bradley.bradley.edu
        There are always connections; you have only to want to find them
Newsgroups: alt.industrial
From: hthornbu@jarthur.claremont.edu (Harvey D. Thornburg)
Subject: Re: Tastes in music
Organization: The Universe
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 18:23:38 GMT


If you haven't yet pick up Nitzer Ebb's first album _That Total Age_
=the ultimate in "hate+anger" industrial (much better than their newer
stuff IMHO)

Other things I'm assuming you would like (I guess you're into "dance" 
industrial from your listing) are Frontline Assembly (any album), any 
side projects (Delerium, Cyberaktif, Intermix), and also: Front 242, KMFDM, 
Apolitik, PCB/Contagion, Pig, Meat Beat Manifesto (they have a new album out!)

If you're into techno at all (never too late to start) you might get into
the harder, Belgian stuff like Lords of Acid, T99, and also hardcore UK
breakbeat like Prodigy (new album coming out soon!), Aphex Twin, Eon, etc.
Most of this stuff you can mosh to w/o getting _too_ many dirty looks...

You might also wato check out the "roots" of this dance-industrial: try
any Cabaret Voltaire after 1980, oh, and you _must_ check out DAF.  I can't
believe sometimes how much they sound like Nitzer Ebb even though they were
quite active in the 70's.

Did I forget anybody? Probably.

Let's start some discussion!
Enjoy,
-H
(hthornbu@jarthur.claremont.edu)
-- 
|-H                               |  "Sensations as hard to forget |
|(hthornbu@jarthur.claremont.edu) |   as they are to ignore"       |
Newsgroups: alt.industrial,alt.cyberpunk,alt.music.alternative,alt.rave
From: nninja@nyx.cs.du.edu (Net Ninja)
Subject: Re: Rave?
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 92 07:05:08 GMT

In article <1992Oct15.022832.1@eagle.wesleyan.edu> kzimmerman@eagle.wesle
an.edu writes:
>In article <1992Oct14.221136.14504@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, jselwonk@nyx.cs
du.edu (Jon Selwonk) writes:
>> 
>> What is Rave?
>Do you mean the pop side of techno, songs like Sesame's Treet? Well, eve

>hardcore ravers hate it, like myself... ;)
>Or do you mean raves themselves? 
>
>> Why do people hate it so much, and...
>See above. I can see a non-techno lover hearing "rave" music and declari
g the
>whole thing to be shite. Shame really. Like judging industrial thru NIN.
>
>> Why is it so "incompatible" with Cyberpunk and industrial culture.
>
>I don't see it as incompatible with cyberpunk culture but then again I'm
not a
>cyberpunk. As for industrial, well, industrial culture is heavily negati
e and
>depressed and angry, while techno is at turns happy or brutally forceful
(the
>old breakbeat vs. hardcore axis). It's never really "angry" in the teen-
ngst
>sense...
>
>Anybody else?
>> 
>> Thanks
>> CSFrosh
>> 


I've heard some techno and some mix tapes which _are_ very angst-y, like
Aphex Twin, Dr. Fernando, etc.  But the stuff that gets played at the raves
_I_ go to is like "Sesame Street" and "James Brown is Dead" and stuff -
definitely not industrial.  Rave is really a much better incarnation of
the disco movement and thus has very little to do with industrial culture.
 However, at raves themselves there is always an undercurrent of impending
apocalypse....

THat's kind if "cyberpunk if you think abut it...

BTW, anybody know when Aphex Twin is going to release a full album:
everybody "else" has or has one in the works.

Net Ninja

Xref: sparky alt.industrial:250 alt.cyberpunk:4790 alt.music.alternative:12887 alt.rave:3901
Newsgroups: alt.industrial,alt.cyberpunk,alt.music.alternative,alt.rave
Subject: Re: Rave?
From: kzimmerman@eagle.wesleyan.edu
Date: 15 Oct 92 02:28:32 EDT
Organization: Wesleyan University

In article <1992Oct14.221136.14504@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, jselwonk@nyx.cs.du.edu (Jon Selwonk) writes:
> 
> What is Rave?
Do you mean the pop side of techno, songs like Sesame's Treet? Well, even
hardcore ravers hate it, like myself... ;)
Or do you mean raves themselves? 

> Why do people hate it so much, and...
See above. I can see a non-techno lover hearing "rave" music and declaring the
whole thing to be shite. Shame really. Like judging industrial thru NIN.

> Why is it so "incompatible" with Cyberpunk and industrial culture.

I don't see it as incompatible with cyberpunk culture but then again I'm not a
cyberpunk. As for industrial, well, industrial culture is heavily negative and
depressed and angry, while techno is at turns happy or brutally forceful (the
old breakbeat vs. hardcore axis). It's never really "angry" in the teen-angst
sense...

Anybody else?
> 
> Thanks
> CSFrosh
> 
Newsgroups: alt.industrial,alt.cyberpunk
From: ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu (andy)
Subject: Re: Mondo 2000
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 92 22:27:19 GMT


Hmm...Mondo 2000 you say?...hmmm, nope, nope, that just doesn;t ring
any bells....Can't say that I've heard of that one....

big-ass smiley for the sarcastically-impaired.

--
 ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu   FutureCulture E-List: [future-request@nyx.cs.du.edu]
 andy (hawkeye)         new edge, technoculture, cyberpunk, virtual reality,
                        raves, etc. Home of the famous :) FutureCulture FAQ!
 
Newsgroups: alt.industrial,alt.cyberpunk,alt.music.alternative
From: jselwonk@nyx.cs.du.edu (Jon Selwonk)
Subject: Rave?
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix @ U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 92 22:11:36 GMT


What is Rave?
Why do people hate it so much, and...
Why is is so "incompatible" with Cyberpunk and industy culture.

Thanks
CSFrosh

Newsgroups: alt.industrial
From: dnakamur@nyx.cs.du.edu (Damo Nakamura)
Subject: Now that I think about it
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix @ U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 92 09:05:57 GMT


Now that I think about it, this is alt.industrial; right?
Why limit ourselves to industrial _music_ per se.

Alt.industrial should be devoted to discussion of industrial _culture_ as
well.  This can include Re: search stuff, but I'd like to muse for a
second on how industrial culture has infiltrated itself into pop culture

Just look at the "industrial" movies of the 80's and 90's.  Stuff like
Blade Runner, Terminator 1, the Max Headroom stuff, etc. reallt captures
for me the _essence of what it's like to live in an industrial society. 
If you compare this to stuff like before industrial music, all those
cheezy 50's sci-fi movies, you'll find that those movies of today paint a
much bleaker picture of industrial and corporate process and (this is
important) are supposed to take place much less further into the future. 
I think Blade Runner and the original Terminator were supposed to take
place in the 1990's, while Max Headroom was always "20 min. into the
future."

Anyway, I find industrial culture - the culture all of us live in yet most
of us choose to ignore - quite intriguing.  So Phil and whoever else is
out there, you wouldn't mind too much if I talked about industrial culture
too much would you?

Oh ps. Phil, thanks for the TG lyrics.  I have Tiab Guls, as you prob.know:
cuz the mood just FITS the lyrics!!!!!!!!

Remember, industrial culture and music intertwine - they both reflect on
each other and dissipate enlightening waves of energy.

-DAMO DA DANCING FLATWURM
-yeah yeah have an industrial fucking night.

Newsgroups: alt.industrial,alt.cyberpunk
From: mimir@stein.u.washington.edu (Al Billings)
Subject: Re: Mondo 2000
Organization: The Friends of Loki Society
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 23:41:14 GMT

In article <Bw2J4q.7ov@cda.mrs.umn.edu> carlsoje@cda.mrs.umn.edu (Joel E. Carlson 1625773) writes:
>In article <1992Oct13.034358.3925@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> nninja@nyx.cs.du.edu (Net Ninja) writes:
>>
>>Hey - here's something for industrial/"cyberpunk" culture for you.
>>Has anybody else heard of this?
>>
>>-Mondo 2000- is a glossy, futuristic publication out of Berkeley
>>specializing
>
>Oh great another Mondo thread.  There is more to cyberpunk than a glossy
>5.95 rag!

 Someone tell the idiot to read the FAQ.

Wassail,
Al

                           mimir@u.washington.edu
    /\  /\       +----------------------------------------+
   /__\/__\      | "I know that I hung on the windy tree  |          |
  /\  /\  /\     |  all of nights nine, wounded by Gar,   |          |
 /__\/__\/__\    |   given to Odhinn, myself to myself,   |          |
    /\  /\       | upon that tree of which none can tell  |          |
   /__\/__\      |      from what root it rises."         |    ______|______
                 +----------------------------------------+


Newsgroups: alt.industrial
From: dskimish@nyx.cs.du.edu (David Skimishara)
Subject: Re: Industrial music, hey!
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 92 21:30:08 GMT


hey, the only time I like to hear NIN is when it's being crushed under a
steam roller (believe me, I've done this, and the sound was great)  I'm
glad we can use this group as a discussion about the direction of
industrial
(oops) music, and culture in general
Dave (no .sig, bit I'm working on it)

Newsgroups: alt.industrial,alt.cyberpunk,alt.music.alternative
From: ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu (andy)
Subject: Re: Rave?
Followup-To: alt.rave
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 92 23:04:18 GMT

In article <1992Oct14.221136.14504@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>
jselwonk@nyx.cs.du.edu (Jon Selwonk) writes: 

|What is Rave?
|Why do people hate it so much, and...
|Why is is so "incompatible" with Cyberpunk and industy culture.

Read and follow-up to alt.rave...

As far as the cyberpunk/idustrial angle is concerned, a lot of
stereotypes regarding both those subcultures (which are fairly
intertwined at times [too much so, at other times]) is that they tend
to be:  dark, depressing, goth + tech, maybe even apocalyptic.

Rave culture on the other hand stereotypicaly tends to be happy,
free-ish, hippie + tech, maybe even hopeful!

(please, no flames regarding my use of the word subculture...if you
don't agree, then know that I already understand why - but those words
are convenient)...

|Thanks
|CSFrosh

--
 ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu   FutureCulture E-List: [future-request@nyx.cs.du.edu]
 andy (hawkeye)         new edge, technoculture, cyberpunk, virtual reality,
                        raves, etc. Home of the famous :) FutureCulture FAQ!
 
Newsgroups: alt.industrial,sci.electronics