HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rardin@binah.cc.brandeis.edu (R. Lynn Rardin)
Subject: Re: MiniDiscs -- What Are They?
Reply-To: rardin@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Organization: Brandeis University
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 15:26:55 GMT

In article <28844@oasys.dt.navy.mil>, curt@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Curt Welch) writes:
>> rhoades@ll.mit.edu (Captain Chaos) writes:
>>I toss out 150 MB as a guess at MD
>>capacity (CD-ROM=600+ MB, MD has ~1/4 the data a CD has).
>
>In rec.audio, ted@dgbt.doc.ca (Ted Grusec) writes:
>>MD, and DCC both use lossy compression.  Therefore, they are TOTALLY
>>USELESS for computer storage!
>
>Ted.  You are confused.  Think about it.  If you still think it won't
>work, get someone to explain it to you.
>
>On the size of the MD, I worked out the likely size last night using
>numbers from an article in MIX.  It came out to about 135 MB - but
>I had to make some assumptions about how the MD would be used
>for data storage.

[details of Curt's calculations deleted]

>Curt Welch

A simpler estimation of the data storage capacity of MD yields a similar 
value:

CDs store roughly 600 MB of data, I believe.  Since the musical storage 
capacity of a CD and an MD are similar in terms of size and Sony claims 
roughly 5:1 data compression for their ATRAC algorithm, the data storage 
capacity of a MD should be roughly 600 MB / 5 = 120 MB.  It's a quick and 
dirty calculation, but the result may not be too far from the true data storage 
capacity of the MD.

-Lynn  (rardin@auriga.rose.brandeis.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.music.cd
From: 2038am@gmuvax2.gmu.edu (That Guy)
Subject: Re: The Bongos?
Organization: George Mason University, Fairfax, Va.
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 22:28:42 GMT

In article <1992Dec24.101835.10194@u.washington.edu> olsenc@stein.u.washington.edu (Clint Olsen) writes:
>I believe they had a song released called "Number With Wings".  If
>anyone knows if they have anything available on CD, please email.
>
>Thanks.


YES, PLEASE!!  
if anybody has ANY details about any of the Bongo's releases that are
available on disc, tell me too.

i have several of their efforst on vinyl, but would certainly appreciate
any information about them on disc.

the albums (vinyl) i have are:
Drums Along The Hudson
The Beat Hotel

additionally, i have 
Richard Barone/James Mastro   --   Nuts And Bolts

and some sampler on either Passport or PVC records, called
Swimming With Sharks (I think, I can't find it right away), that
has two or three live tracks from the Bongos along with other bands.

and I'm looking for the "Numbers With Wings EP" on CD or even VINYL
if anybody has it.

I already have Richard Barone's "Cool Blue Halo" and "Primal Dream"
on CD, and am eagerly anticipating his next release.  Rumours have
it to be released some time in the first few months of '93.

if you have ANY info to share, please E-mail me.  i don't know how
frequently i'll be able to check back here.  and don't delay, i'm not
sure how long until this account expires, but i'm sure it will be some
time before the middle of january.

thanx
-Andy



Newsgroups: rec.music.cd
From: mwasserm@diana.cair.du.edu (MARC Y. WASSERMAN)
Subject: Genesis Questions
Organization: University of Denver, Denver, Colorado
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 93 05:32:25 GMT

Two Questions about Genesis:

1.  I bought "Invisible Touch" on CD and the sound quality seems
poor.  Is this the CD itself or is the quality of this album just
sort of poor on CD?  It doesn't seem to have the dynamic range
of their other albums, and I swear I can hear hiss.

2.  Is their second album, "Trespass", available on CD?  I cannot
find it.

Thank you

Marc Wasserman
mwasserm@diana.cair.du.edu

-- 
"So you're choosing to run from your own people in a rackety old TARDIS?"
		     D  O  C  T  O  R     W  H  O
				30 Years
           "Why not?  After all, that's how it all started!"
From: lindholm@ucs.ubc.ca (George Lindholm)
Newsgroups: rec.music.cd
Subject: Re: CD player with variable playback speed
Date: 29 Dec 1992 08:15:55 GMT
Organization: University Computing Services, UBC, Canada
NNTP-Posting-Host: swiss.ucs.ubc.ca

In article <37174@sophia.inria.fr> glaurent@aenegada.inria.fr (Guillaume Laurent) writes:
>
>
>A friend of mine told me about a CD player that could play back CDs at variable
>speed, just like some old tape recorders.
>Unfortunately, he was unable to give me precise references.
>If anyone has heard more about such a device, I'd be glad to know which firm
>makes it, and how much (approximately) it costs.

Sony has an inexpensive player, the CDP-K1 with +-12% that I bought back in
March and have been very happy with. Sony claims that it is really a 
"Karaoke"(sp?) player thus it comes with two microphone inputs and a voice
filter.
-- 
George Lindholm                                  phone:    (604) 822-4375
University Computing Services, UBC               fax:      (604) 822-5116
6356 Agricultural Road, Vancouver, B.C., Canada  internet: lindholm@ucs.ubc.ca
V6T 1Z2                                          bitnet:   USERGNL@UBCMTSG
Newsgroups: rec.music.cd,misc.consumers
From: dbriggs@zia.aoc.nrao.edu (Daniel Briggs)
Subject: More portable CD stuff -- shock and vibration specs?
Organization: National Radio Astronomy Observatory, Socorro NM
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 19:24:08 GMT

Sorry if this has been hashed to death already, but I just joined the ranks
of the CD player owners about two days ago.

I bought a Sony Diskman, and while I have no problems at all with its
sound, I'm a little disappointed with it's tracking ability and
susceptibility to small shocks.  Basically, I want to know if I had
unreasonable expectations or if I have a particularly crappy unit and
should consider taking it back.

The unit plays fine while on a table.  But I can lift one corner by a few
millimeters, and let it fall, and this shock will cause it to loose
tracking for several seconds.  When I have in it my pocket and am listening
while walking, I can cause it to skip by stepping hard or bumping the
pocket with my arm.  Jogging or running are pretty much out of the
question.  Are they all this bad?

Also what about mechanical damage due to larger shocks?  I've seen videos
of people skydiving with portable CD players, and would like to try it
myself.  Now, it will doubtless skip during opening shock, but is it likely
to permanently damage the player or the CD?  How much of the mechanism in
the player has any freedom of motion?  The laser doesn't come all that
close to the disk, so I probably wouldn't pit the CD.  I have no idea how
sturdy the 1-D track is that constrains the head assembly.  Those CD liners
that put a rubber rim around the edge of the CD would seem to be a good
idea for something like this.  The CD player itself pretty well has to have
the spin axis horizontal, though it might take the shock better with the
axis vertical.  Any optimum ways to mount it to minimize the damage?

-- 
| Daniel Briggs  (dbriggs@nrao.edu)                      |  USPA B-14993
| New Mexico Tech / National Radio Astronomy Observatory |      DoD #387
| P.O. Box O / Socorro, NM 87801   (505) 835-7391        | 
Support the League for Programming Freedom   (info from lpf@uunet.uu.net)
Xref: sparky rec.music.cd:8626 rec.audio:17399
From: cal@gsbux1.uchicago.edu (Cal Lott)
Newsgroups: rec.music.cd,rec.audio
Subject: Re: Is high priced CD player worth the money?
Date: 28 Dec 92 03:55:46 GMT
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

rsilvers@nynexst.com (Robert Silvers) writes:

>In article <2B35918E.19858@news.service.uci.edu> tao@balboa.eng.uci.edu (Eric Yihching Tao) writes:
>>
>>I remember some time ago in Stereo Review magazine that the sound quality
>>in different CD is mininal, so a $199 changer will sound almost as good as
>>any $499 ones, the feature might be less, but as far as sound goes, they
>>are about the same, is this true?
>
>	If you have good speakers, you will notice the difference.  Stereo Review
>is not a good source of information.  Their only purpose is to sell lots of junk
>to consumers.

	That's an interesting opinion, Robert. What caused you to become
convinced of this?

>              My friend's CD player broke and while it was being repaired, he
>hooked up his Sony portable.  The difference was amazing!  The Sony sounded like
>a transistor radio!  He has really good speakers, so your mileage will vary.  I 
>claim that a $500.00 (retail) casette tape player will sound better than a $199.00
>CD changer.

	Perhaps if it were a Nakamichi deck and a *really* bad changer.

	If I were putting a budget system together, I'd still take
an inexpensive changer like the Sony CDP-C225 ($240 list, ~$200 retail)
and stick the extra $300 towards the speakers.

	If I could only choose from one ~$500 component, I'd take the 
Denon DCM-520 (list $500, retail ~$450), which would beat the snot out
of *any* $500 cassette deck.

	Keep in mind that the CD medium won't degrade like the cassette
will, and is generally a more hassle-free medium. (Jump to any track
immediately, no fussy azimuth adjustment problems, etc.)

						-Cal
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Cal Lott          "Oh, I see-- I thought 'no' meant 'spoon'!" --Dan
Email me, baby!   cal@gsbux1.uchicago.edu   cjl1@midway.uchicago.edu
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.music.cd
From: lazlo@triton.unm.edu (Lazlo Nibble)
Subject: Re: Mike Oldfield CD Availability
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 92 23:56:21 GMT
Organization: Usenet Power Elite: Crush-The-Innocent-Newbies Strike Team

jrowney@arco.com writes:

> Does anyone know if the following are available on CD?

All of Oldfield's Virgin albums are available on CD, though a couple of
them (including 'Boxed') are still only available in the UK and Europe.
'Incantations' is available on Caroline in the US.

An aside: the mixes on the CD issue of 'Boxed' aren't the same mixes as on
the vinyl version! 

--
Lazlo (lazlo@triton.unm.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.music.cd
From: Steve@donald.demon.co.uk (Steve Gilbert)
Subject: Re: CD Contains wrong music...
Distribution: world
X-NewsSoftware: GRn 1.16f (10.17.92) by Mike Schwartz & Michael B. Smith
Organization: Private Internet/Usenet node.
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 21:25:52 +0000

In article <725435420snx@sound.demon.co.uk> rob@sound.demon.co.uk (Robert J Barth) writes:
> 
> What we're on about here is a serious error e.g. having the wrong *band* or
> wrong *album* on a CD, not just a track or 2 out of place...
> 
> I hope this is a lot rarer, but I'm willing to be proved wrong !
> 

Is it going to be worth something then?

-- 
                                   ___
                                  (o o)
--------------------------------ooO(_)Ooo----------------------------------
       Steve Gilbert, 38 Melrose Road, Gainsborough, Lincs. DN21 2SD
       steve@donald.demon.co.uk             sgilbert@cix.clink.co.uk
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Xref: sparky rec.music.cd:8555 rec.audio:17129
From: curt@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Curt Welch)
Newsgroups: rec.music.cd,rec.audio
Subject: Re: MiniDiscs -- What Are They?
Date: 22 Dec 92 05:19:45 GMT
Reply-To: curt@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Curt Welch)
Followup-To: rec.music.cd
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD

> rhoades@ll.mit.edu (Captain Chaos) writes:
>I toss out 150 MB as a guess at MD
>capacity (CD-ROM=600+ MB, MD has ~1/4 the data a CD has).

In rec.audio, ted@dgbt.doc.ca (Ted Grusec) writes:
>MD, and DCC both use lossy compression.  Therefore, they are TOTALLY
>USELESS for computer storage!

Ted.  You are confused.  Think about it.  If you still think it won't
work, get someone to explain it to you.

On the size of the MD, I worked out the likely size last night using
numbers from an article in MIX.  It came out to about 135 MB - but
I had to make some assumptions about how the MD would be used
for data storage.

The numbers from the article: The MD ATRAC encoding takes 512 stereo 16
bit samples (2048 bytes) and compresses them into a 424 byte sound
group (212 bytes for each channel).  This gives the fixed compression
ratio of about 4.83 to 1.

11 of these sound groups get packed into every 2 sectors.  A sector
contains 2332 bytes of data plus 20 bytes of other data.  I assume
this other data is for error correction but the article isn't clear.

32 of these sectors are grouped into a cluster.  The cluster has 36
sectors total.  32 for data, 3 for link data (used to form the linked
list I assume) and one for subcode data.

The 512 samples that are compressed into a sound group make up about
11.6 msec of music.  A sector (5.5 groups) holds 63.9 msec of music.
A cluster, (32 sectors) holds 2.04 seconds of music.

If a disk can hold 74 minutes of music, that would be about 2173
clusters on a disk.

For data, I assume they would store one 2048 block in each 2332 byte
sector.  This is similar to how CD-ROMS work where they store 2048
bytes in each 2352 byte subcode block.

Doing this would yeld 2173 (clusters) * 32 (sectors per cluster) *
2048 (bytes per sector) or 142409728 bytes. If you call 1024^2 a MB,
then this would be 135.8 MB.

I sure hope they come out with a MD data drive RSN.  135 MB on
a 2 1/2" disk for $12.  Sounds good to me.

Curt Welch
Newsgroups: rec.music.cd,rec.audio
From: lazlo@triton.unm.edu (Lazlo Nibble)
Subject: Re: MiniDiscs -- What Are They?
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 05:29:43 GMT
Organization: Usenet Power Elite: Crush-The-Innocent-Newbies Strike Team

ted@dgbt.doc.ca (Ted Grusec) writes:

> MD, and DCC both use lossy compression.  Therefore, they are TOTALLY
> USELESS for computer storage!

One had absolutely nothing to do with the other.  Nothing about the design
of MiniDiscs keeps you from storing data on them *un*compressed, or with a
lossless compression algorithm. (Ditto for DCC, but with so many proven
tape-backup formats out there already, I can't imagine why anyone would
bother.)    

--
Lazlo (lazlo@triton.unm.edu)
From: dwellman@amiganet.chi.il.us (Dan Wellman)
Newsgroups: rec.music.cd
Subject: Re: Erasure (concert), New Order, Red Flag
Date: 27 Dec 92 18:39:13 CST
Organization: Amiga Network Information Systems

In article <18868@bunny.GTE.COM>, dwo1@gte.com (Donald W. Ottens) writes:
>A couple of questions regarding these bands:
>1.  Yes, erasure is on tour......has anyone been to their concert?
>    what was it like?  Are they coming to the Northeast?  (I hope so).

I saw their concert opening night in Chicago.  It's an excellent show,
they play almost 30 songs, no opening act.  A lot of dancing, with a show
of dancers, huge scenery, and bizarre costumes.  I thought the show was
great, except the crowd I was with didn't really get into the show, they
just stood around and clapped here and there :)

>2.  Does anyone know if New Order plans on getting back together soon?
>    Do you think they'll ever tour again?

New Order has an album scheduled for release in February.. So yes, they're
together..  However, with the recent bankruptcy of their record company,
the release date may or may not be postponed (no one's real sure what's
happening).  There are rumors floating around that New Order and Depeche
Mode will tour the country in Summer 1993.

Unfortunatley,  I don't know much about Red Flag..

>d ottens gte laboratories inc waltham massachusetts dwo1@gte.com
>-----------------------------------------------------------------

______________________________________________________________________________
Dan Wellman                    | "Mixing.. is the art form of making music
dwellman@amiganet.chi.il.us    |  today..."
Apple II Infinitum!            |  
America Online: DanW190        | - Kraftwerk, in a _Keyboard_ interview 
Newsgroups: rec.music.cd,rec.audio
From: yxl5388@ultb.isc.rit.edu (Y.X. Liu)
Subject: Re: MiniDiscs -- What Are They?
Originator: yxl5388@ultb
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 10:27:47 GMT

In article <1992Dec21.080720.27222@ultb.isc.rit.edu> mds5142@ultb.isc.rit.edu (M.D. Shepherd) writes:
>Up here in Rochester, stores have the play-only minidisc players for
>$500 and the minidisc recorders for $700.  But currently, most places
>are out of them and are handing out rainchecks.  The MD portable player
>is sure much bulkier than I expected, although I couldn't pick it up so
>I'm not sure how heavy it is.  The sound sure was fabulous though.  How
>do they make MDs write-protected?  Is it similar to the little tab on the 3
>1/2 inch diskettes?  The MD cases were certainly small too.  The single
>drawback to this minituarizing and down-sizing is now there's even *less*
>space for the art-work a band can put into a cover.

The play only version (MZ-2P) is 680 grams and the play/record version
(MZ-1) is 690 grams. They're both listed as 1lb 8oz though. Not sure how
they're write-protected either but my guess is also a movable tab. I'll
probably pick one up this week to play with.

>I also saw the DCC player which also had fabulous sound.  I didn't catch
>the price on it though.  And if I did have the money for either one, I'm
>really not sure which one I'd choose to buy, although it would probably
>be the MD.  Is there a stereo sized component MD player, or is the
>portable device made to become part of the system itself?  An MD component
>would seem to defeat its main purpose, portability, so maybe that's a
>stupid question.  Anyway, it'll be interesting to see what happens with
>2 new formats out there.

The price is around $700 and dunno if it's my problem or what but the
cassette tray always seems to get stuck halfway through. I also doubt that
there'll be an MD component, but hopefully smaller units will be made
soon.

=Fractalman
yxl5388@ultb.isc.rit.edu

Newsgroups: rec.music.cd,rec.audio
From: rhoades@ll.mit.edu (Captain Chaos)
Subject: Re: MiniDiscs -- What Are They?
Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 21:00:14 GMT

Perhaps the discrepancy in the projected cost of a blank MD and the current
cost of blank magneto-optical (MO) computer disks is due in part to economies
of scale.  Once they get in to mass-marketing to audio users, maybe they can
get the price down.

I'd like to note that the $225 cost of our MO disks goes to Alphatronix,
the drive manufacturer, who buys 3M, Verbatim, Encore or whatever disks
and verifies/formats/tests/guarantees them.  So materials cost probably isn't
the whole pricetag.

Using MD for computer storage is an appealling idea.  Consumer electronics
formats have certainly crossed over before (DAT, VHS).  I'd argue, however,
that the audio user would actually use more blank disks than the computer
user.  Think about it:  I can fill up 74 minutes of sound easy, but it takes
me a lot longer to fill up 150 MB!  I toss out 150 MB as a guess at MD
capacity (CD-ROM=600+ MB, MD has ~1/4 the data a CD has).

MD vs. DCC price update (Tower has changed them already!):

	prerecorded DCC		$14
	prerecorded MD		$14
	blank DCC (Maxell?)	$11

Andrew
rhoades@ll.mit.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.cd,comp.music
From: jeff@is.s.u-tokyo.ac.jp (Jeff McAffer)
Subject: Re: CD Contains wrong music...
Reply-To: jeff@is.s.u-tokyo.ac.jp
Organization: University of Tokyo / Object Technology International
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 07:51:11 GMT
X-Bytes: 1606

In article <725435420snx@sound.demon.co.uk> rob@sound.demon.co.uk (Robert J Barth) writes:

 >>>um.. that is, if on the cover it said the songs were in order ABCDEFGH, on
 >>>the CD they were EFGHABCD. At least they were all there..
 >>I have a CD (Culture Club's "First Four Years") that has the songs a
 >>bit shuffled orderwise versus the cover.
 >This is not unusual, I have several like that... the Pixies did that, e.g.
 >the CD says '26' the cover says '27'.
 >Hey even the Beatles did it, having completely different UK/US releases of
 >albums..  But this is down to the Group/Management/PR/Machine

I find that alot here.  The Japanese releases have more or fewer
tracks, they are in different order, different names... For some
reason, the Japanese releases are about 50% more expensive.  Yup,
Imports are cheaper!  How's that for a trade barrier Bush-buddy?!

 >What we're on about here is a serious error e.g. having the wrong *band* or
 >wrong *album* on a CD, not just a track or 2 out of place...
 >
 >I hope this is a lot rarer, but I'm willing to be proved wrong !

I have not had this problem and would have thought that it would be
pretty hard to do but then so would alot of all the other problems we
are seeing reported here.  My new NIN CD says it has like 6 track on
the case but it has 99.  Actually 7-98 are blank but 99 has a 7th song
in it.  Most annoying as it takes quite some time to get from 6 to 99.
Don't know if this is on purpose or if its a mistake.

Anyone know when in the manufacturing process the printing goes on a CD?


--
--
ato de, |m        -- Death by stereo!
Newsgroups: rec.music.cd
From: olsenc@stein.u.washington.edu (Clint Olsen)
Subject: "Valley Girl" Soundtrack
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 10:17:02 GMT

Hello:

Is it possible to get this soundtrack on something other
than vinyl?  Some of the groups like Men at Work and the Sparks
are easy to find, but others, like the Payolas are next
to impossible.

Please send email.

-Clint
Newsgroups: rec.music.cd,rec.music.misc
From: schuster@panix.com (Michael Schuster)
Subject: Madness
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 01:37:09 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix & Internet, NYC

Which of the two Madness compilation CD's contains the song "Our House"?
(If both .. which is better?)

-- 
_______________________________Mike Schuster________________________________
NY Pub. Access UNIX/Internet: schuster@panix.com | 70346.1745@CompuServe.COM
The Portal (R) System: schuster@shell.portal.com | MCI Mail,GEnie: MSCHUSTER
From: ultron@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Andrew H Krieg)
Newsgroups: rec.music.cd
Subject: NIN: Broken - 2 indices?
Date: 23 Dec 1992 21:09:10 GMT
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4

Is it possible for a CD to have 2 indices?  I have heard that the new NIN CD
comes in 3 formats, CD + CD3, 99 track CD, and 8 track CD.  My package had
the CD and CD3, so I assumed I had the first format.  Usually, the CD
registers 6 songs and 20+ minutes of music.  Sometimes, however, the CD
registers 99 tracks and 30+ minutes of music, about the same length as the CD
+ CD3 combined would be.  My CD player can never play the CD however, when it
registers this 99 track format.

Are 2 indices possible technically on a CD?  This sort of reminds me of LPs
that have more than 1 groove.  Depending on where you placed the needle, you
may get a different song.  Could the CD index work the same way?
-- 
=     Andrew Krieg	| 						=
= krieg@titan.med.ge.com|  Treguna   Mekoides   Trecorum   Satis   Dee	=
=	   or		|						=
= krieg@point.cs.uwm.edu| 				    - Astoroth	=
Newsgroups: rec.music.cd
From: mcobb@scott.skidmore.edu (mary cobb)
Subject: Re: Rush Recommendations wanted
Organization: Skidmore College, Saratoga Springs NY
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 14:42:44 GMT

Roll The Bones is a good disc, however overplayed by the top-40 wanna-be 
radio stations that try to give you the best of hip-hop and rock'n'roll
in general at the same time.  I love classic rock of the 70's and very early
eighties (Rush, Yes, etc).  The only DDD albums I have are Roll the Bones
and A Little Light Music (which I don't even think is DDD, that might be AAD.)
Where's My Thing? is a great adrenaline track on R.T.B., and all the other
trax are great as well.
 
Eric
 
I see earthquakes & lightnin.
Organization: University/Publications & Printing, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.music.cd
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 07:59:24 -0500 
From: "Daniel E. Tyson" <dt1z+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Marco Cerletti

 I'm looking for a Cd by Marco Cerletti, he plays a Chapman Stick and I
heard it on Echo's. I can't find it here in Pittsburgh Pa. Any info
would be appreciated.
Thanks
Dan
Newsgroups: rec.music.cd