HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: osmith@abbott.SEAS.UCLA.EDU (Owen I. Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .308 for 1000 yd. Matches
Date: 25 Jul 92 22:02:29 GMT
Organization: SEASnet, University of California, Los Angeles


In article <1992Jul22.212546.27830@informix.com> infmx!gregm@uunet.UU.NET (Greg Mitchell) writes:
#
#... As the air density decreases the speed of sound increases.  
#Isn't this relation linerally proportional ? 
#
For an ideal gas (not a bad approximation for air) the speed of sound
depends ONLY on the temperature.  It's proportional to the square
root of the absolute temperature, and so AT CONSTANT PRESSURE goes as
the inverse square root of the density.
#
#The bullet will decelerate slower in the thinner air, but shouldn't
#it cross through the trans-sonic at a higher speed ?  
#
No, not unless the temperature is higher.

Owen I Smith; UCLA DEPT CHEM ENG; 5531 Boelter Hall; LA CA 90024; (213)825-2125
Internet:osmith@SEAS.UCLA.EDU                 UUCP: ... {ucbvax!ucla-cs}!osmith
From: cbl@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu (Chris Luchini)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Unique a 'dirty' powder?!?
Date: 23 Jul 92 14:29:42 GMT
Organization: High Energy Physics, University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign

In article <9207212234.AA15173@smrtstr.smartstar.com>, you write:
[snip...]
#Another thing, is that every manual recommends using Hercules Unique powder.
#It is accurate powder, but it's really dirty.  I used it once, but never
#again.  After about 200 rounds, it made my gun jam.  With Bullseye, I never
#had that problem.  Unique probably works ok if you have a 'special test
#barrel', and clean it every 10 shots or so.  

	I keep hearing this about Unique. I've never had a problem with
	it being dirty. I used 5.8-6.0 grain under a 115 Jacketed bullet,
	or 4.3 under a 147 grain cast bullet. I've put 3000 cast rounds through
	a gun without cleaning before I started to have functioning problems.
	Yes, if you use light charge weights of unique, it'll not really
	burn, just smolder :). Up your charge weight, and it'll be as
	clean buring as any other powder.

	If you want to shoot light loads, use a faster burning powder,
	AA#2, Bullseye spring to mind. 

#lower.  AA#5 works good, but AA#7 did not work as well.  Win 231, is about
#the same as Bulseye, but seems a bit more accurate.

	ACK AA#7 is like glue when used with 115 grain bullets. It works
	find with 147 grain Jacketed, I use 7.3-7.8 grains depending
	on how much internal case capacity I have with that paticular
	bullet style. BE VERY CAREFULL WITH 147 GRAIN BULLETS IN 9MM.
	THE VERY SMALL INITIAL CASE CAPACITY CAN MAKE MINOR CHANGES IN
	OVERALL LENGTH, OR SWITCHING CASES, PRIMERS, OR EVEN CASE BELLING
	AND BULLET CRIMPING, CAUSE _*GREAT*_ CHANGES IN PRESSURE.	
	I trim, flash hole debur, cut the primer pockets, and weigh
	each case before I load these hot 147 grain 9mm loads. 
	I have measured 25% change in internal case capacity between
	2 different bullet styles, and 2 types of Federal cases. The
	difference in just the cases is .5 grains of water capacity,
	about 7%.

	As a side benifit, if you happen upon a combination that is on
	the high side of the case capacity range, you can greatly exceed
	published velocities. Don't even try for hot 147 loads if you
	aren't willing to go to the bother to do every step (and then some)
	that I've listed above. 


#
#One problem with the 9mm, is finding the cases after you shoot them.  You'll
#probably loose at least 25% of your cases, so don't spend alot of time
	
	I usually loose 1-3%. . . So yes, I do spend a bunch of time
	preping cases.

#swear by them.  You should try to use bullets that have as much surface
#touching the rifling as possible.  
#

	Depends. . . With 147 grain bullets, more bore contact area is
	not usually a good thing.

-Chris L
*1110 W. Green/Urbana IL 61801/217-333-0505/cbl@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu 
* Remember, only mere mortals need sleep!
From: leem@jpl-devvax.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Lee Mellinger)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Open Carry was Re: Georgia - Land of Paradise for Progunners???
Date: 29 Jul 92 15:00:38 GMT
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory (NASA)

In article <m0mD3K3-0000hIC@crash.cts.com> jca@crash.cts.com (John C. Archambeau) writes:
:In article <1992Jul27.013407.26236@massey.ac.nz> C.T.Teo@massey.ac.nz (C.T. Teo) writes:
:
:As for open carry, there are many open carry states in the US.  Whether
:or not you see it is dependant upon whether or not the residents of the
:locale choose the exercise that right or not.  
:I did know before hand that Nevada is an open carry state, but it's
:still strange to me people carrying openly because I was born and raised
:in the People's Republik of Kalifornia.
: ** INTERNET: jca@thewall.cts.com        |

If you were born and raised in California, then you should have known
that until a year ago January, California was an open carry state as
well as Nevada.


Lee

"Nothing blasts forever" -- Keats on ammo.

"Mit Pulver und Blei, die Gedanken sind frei."

|Lee F. Mellinger                 Caltech/Jet Propulsion Laboratory - NASA
|4800 Oak Grove Drive, Pasadena, CA 91109 818/354-1163  FTS 792-1163     
|leem@jpl-devvax.JPL.NASA.GOV
From: uk09365@nx21.mik.uky.edu (robert i kesten)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Hollowpoints illegal in N.J. ?
Date: 23 Jul 92 23:51:39 GMT
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences

In article <18982@smoke.brl.mil> gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn) writes:
# 
# In article <1992Jul21.031454.23408@csl.sri.com> dstine@cisco.com (David  
S.A. Stine) writes:
# #How utterly humorous. It was just 4 years ago that there was a flap  
when the
# #LAPD decided to run a trial using semi-jacket hollowpoints in service
# #sidearms. They claimed that it was a good idea, since overpenetration  
of FMJ
# #9's resulted in bystander injuries.
# 
# Since a responsible defensive user of a handgun would select  
hollow-point
# bullets as the most appropriate choice for the intended purpose, one has
# to wonder what the lay public's perception of hollow-points is.  I guess
# I'm too familiar with weapons technology to grasp what the public  
perception
# is -- could somebody who's sure of it please summarize what the "man on  
the
# street" thinks about hollow-point rounds?  Apparently they have a bad  
rep..

	We had an active raging gun-control debate on one of the
local machines a year or so ago.  One minor sub-thread dealt
with hollow-point bullets and why someone would want to use them
and whether they should be legal to own or not.
	The utility of hollow-points in defensive shootings
was explained but some people continued to cling to the idea
that hollow-points are good for nothing except maiming other
humans.  The idea that it might be beneficial, and of greater
morality even, to put an attacker on the ground with one shot
from a hollow-point rather than letting him bleed to death
from multiple hardnose wounds never did gain acceptance from
some of these people.
	The fact that the Geneva Convention (or is it the
Hague Convention... whatever) requires military smallarms ammo
to be full-metal-jacket just gives backing to this argument.
These people assume that this proves that hollow-points are
inhumane.

Robert K.
From: post@hpfcso.fc.hp.com (David Post)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Ricochets (was: Shooting in Dumps)
Date: 28 Jul 92 12:37:11 GMT

Paul Ritter on airport security measures:
# detector in BOTH airports. Try and explain THAT to their security! I must
# admit that the security in England were MUCH more relaxed than here. Here,
# weapons were drawn and I was carted away. Not too cool.

My goodness!  What airport was that?  I accidently went through the
detectors at the Denver airport with several fired 9mm cases.  The guy first
said "you can't go through with that!"  So I said " Would you kindly throw
it away?  I don't need it."  I was getting very nervous.  He just gave it
back and said it was ok.

David Post  davep@hpfcpp.fc.hp.com  hplabs!hpfcla!post
From: sybok@athena.mit.edu (The Rifleman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: SOMETHING STRANGE GOING ON?
Date: 27 Jul 92 13:53:54 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

I was reading Shotgun News the other day, and something strange occurred
to me.  SN is chock full of large ads for military/sporting rifles and pistols,
with price quotes and pictures, but has very few ads for shotguns.  In fact,
I only saw one large ad for shotguns, and those were sporting semi-autos.  Are
defense pumps like the Mossberg 500/590, Remington 870, and Winchester 1300
not sold in shotgun news?  I thought it was amusing, since after all, it's
"Shotgun News."
From: dingbat@cix.compulink.co.uk (Codesmiths)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: M1 Garand/M1A history & differences?
Date: 30 Jul 92 14:36:44 GMT



# The Garand was also used in Nam.  As you may have observed, when
# the Garand fires its last round it makes a distinctive "t-ting"
# sound as it ejects the clip.  Victor Charlie observed this and
# told his comrades.


My uncle was a (British) Para shortly after D Day. Although he
carried a Sten for most of it, he related this same story about US
grunts carrying Garands.

He also claimed that a GI night-patrol trick was to carry an empty
clip, and after a brief exchange of fire to toss this clip onto the
ground, making much the same noise. The enemy heard this, and made a
rush, only to find that the magazine wasn't as empty as he thought.

True ? Dead_Granny story ? (or should that be a Sgt_York story 8-) )

          Andy Dingley    dingbat@cix.compulink.co.uk
From: prichard@devon.larc.nasa.gov
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: British gun laws circa 1960
Date: 22 Jul 92 02:58:14 GMT
Organization: Lockheed Engineering & Sciences Co.


not a t.p.g. question, but an informational one;

I have a book by an English dude who sailed around the world sometime
around 1960.  at one point, he mentions checking his Webley .45 since
the upcoming port had a bad reputation.  

1) would this handgun (presumably a revolver) been legal to posess in
   the British isles, and

2) might this an American cartridge such as .45 Colt or .45 ACP?  .45
   seems a bit big for an old British revolver.

--
 ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
 | Devon Prichard                       "Tyrants seldom want pretexts." |
 | Assistant Towel-Folder                Edmund Burke, 1791.            |
 | Lockheed Engineering & Sciences Co.                                  |
 | prichard@devon.larc.nasa.gov                                         |
 ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
From: brian@pdx.csd.mot.com (Brian Vandewettering)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Clip ejecting noise of M1 Garand
Date: 30 Jul 92 14:36:27 GMT
Organization: Motorola CSD, Beaverton, OR


In article <9207281914.AA04100@jupiter.ame.arizona.edu> raymond@jupiter.ame.arizona.edu (Raymond Man) writes:

#So can any M1 users tell us their own experience?

Yes it makes a fairly loud sound.  "Ting!"   I think most of the noise
comes from the clip bouncing off of the receiver on it's way down, since 
the noise from the clip's initial ejection would be covered by muzzle blast.  

Also, the clip has a kind of tuning fork shape which seems to resonate 
rather well.  Therefore, it continues to make noise until it contacts 
something to dampen the vibrations, such as the ground...

Is the noise a tactical disadvantage?  I don't think so, since the Garand
is a fast rifle to reload.  There is no old clip/magazine to deal with.
Just grab a new clip and shove it in.  Also, there is no magazine hanging
out the bottom of the rifle to get in the way.  Lastly, when you hit 
someone with a 30-06 he's pretty likely to die on the spot, which would
hopefully demoralize his buddies and send them running.

At a practical match I witnessed a few guys trying to drop shilhouette 
targets using the .223 Remington cartridge.  Several targets required 
4 to 5 hits before dropping.  However, those hit with 30 caliber rounds
went DOWN.  Although I have no personal experience in the matter, I would 
suppose the same thing would occur on the battlefield.

brian@pdx.csd.mot.com

-- 
"It cannot be presumed that any clause in the Constitution is intended to
be without effect..."

- Chief Justice John Marshall, Marbury v. Madison, 1803
From: jackson@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Dwight Jackson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Local Police firearms upgrade...
Date: 28 Jul 92 20:38:30 GMT


Our local Police (Calgary City Police Services) have finally won the right
to retire their .38 Special S&W revolvers with semi-automatic handguns.  They
have been trying for years to get .357 Magnums, but have always met a brick
wall by the city council.

Replacements are...1,200 Glock 22's & 23's in .40 S&W.  The uniformed officers
will get the 15 shot 22's and the 13 shot 23's will be used by detectives and
undercover officers.  Total cost is said to be estimated at $825,000.

(No one will know, but these are the guys that emptied 8 shots from their
revolvers into a Great Dane, then had to finish the dog off with a shotgun...
all in front of the owners, the media and the usual crowd of neighbourhood kids)

The department also has decided to spend $25,000 on 1,000 "Peper Spray" units
to have the officers carry on their belts.  (oops, "Pepper-Spray"...)

They have also decided to put their revolvers on the used-gun market, and hope
to get about $80.00 each for them.  This from the people who support a total
ban on handgun ownership by the general public (in this town anyway...).

Sheesh...

...dwight
From: callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Beretta 92F vs. Sig P228
Date: 31 Jul 92 12:58:01 GMT
Organization: Engineering Computer Network, University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK, USA

In article <9207282316.AA23403@dog.ee.lbl.gov> etjue@lbl.gov (Eric T. Jue) writes:
#I am considering purchasing either the Beretta 92F or the Sig P228.  I
#prefer the Sig but can't decide because of price differences.  The best
#prices I could find is $489 for the 92F and $549 for the P228.  Are these
#prices really good?  What are your opinions concerning these guns?  I
#appreciate any responses my posting.  Thank you very much.

My first question is why you're comparing the 92F and the P228. The logical
comparison would be P226 v. 92F or P228 v. 92C, as the 226 and 92F are 15+1
while the 228 and 92C are 12+1 "mid-size" pistols. 
Given the fact that you are looking at the 92F and P228 (and you obviously
know the difference between the P226 and P228), you have to ask yourself
whether you want the superior accuracy and reliability of the SIG or the
higher capacity and slightly better ergonomics of the Beretta. In all
actuality, the differences in accuracy, reliability, and ergonomics
between the two are negligible wrt the shooter; I have a P226 and a
Beretta 92G, and I shoot equally well with both of them. (At combat
distances, I can put the SIG's shots in a 2" circle, and I could cut your
heart out with the Beretta. My only problem with hitting the X is my 
vision...Damn, I wish I could see clearly past 12" w/out my glasses. :-(
The real deciding factor is whether you want the larger Beretta or the
smaller SIG. (Smaller is a subjective term; the SIG feels heavier to
me, even though the P226 is slightly smaller than the Beretta...)
Personally, I would choose the SIG--but that's only because I
already have a P226 and Beretta 92G, and I like the concealability
factor of the P228. Your mileage may vary.

				James
James P. Callison       Microcomputer Coordinator        OU Law Library 
Callison@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu   /\        Callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor
	constellation!biglaw!callison@mailhost.ecn.uoknor.edu
DISCLAIMER: I'm not an engineer, but I play one at work...
From: rats@ihlpm.att.com
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: $5,000 to blow on guns
Date: 23 Jul 92 21:03:16 GMT

I would like to have a Armalite AR-10 with original scope and belt-feed
top as an accessory, AND, one of those 3rd generation night vision scopes
like Litton's to top it...
From: lvc@cbvox1.att.com (Lawrence V Cipriani)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Fouling Shot index available on line
Date: 25 Jul 92 13:12:03 GMT
Organization: Ideology Busters, Inc.

The index for "The Fouling Shot", the journal of The Cast Bullet
Association, is now available via anonymous ftp on decoy.uoregon.edu.

This index is maintained by Norm Johnson, njohnson@marlin.nosc.mil,
who asks that if you join the CBA or order Fouling Shot reprints
because of the index to let him know.

You should be able to retrieve a copy of the file using the following
commands:

     Command                         Comments
     ---------------------------     -----------------------------------------
     ftp decoy.uoregon.edu           (that's 128.223.32.19 for non-DNS people)
     login: anonymous                (anonymous MUST be entered lowercase!)
     password: blah                  (anything is fine for the password)
     cd pub/fs-index                 (change directories to the right place)
     dir                             (see what's there...)
     get README                      (get little file explaining what's there)
     get 91index.asc                 (the actual 91 Fouling Shot Index in ASCII)
     quit                            (say good bye when done)

Note that decoy is a NeXT workstation running UNIX, and hence filenames and
such are case sensitive: README isn't the same as reADme which isn't the same
as readme which isn't the same as ReAdMe.
-- 
Larry Cipriani, att!cbvox1!lvc or lvc@cbvox1.att.com
"I just love the smell of gunpowder." -- Bugs Bunny
From: burge@qdeck.com (Bill Burge)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Sig P220 vs. Glock 21
Date: 21 Jul 92 21:12:29 GMT
Organization: Quarterdeck Office Systems, Santa Monica CA

#the SIG is one of the _most_ reliable automatics in existance today! It's
#far less critical of what you feed it than any other auto (including the
#Glock, from what I've read and heard--my personal experience with a Glock
#was that it jammed something awful, but I'm willing to attribute that to
#its being a dirty range gun. Never mind the fact that the range SIG P226
#was in similar shape, and didn't fail once... ;-) And personally, I prefer
#the hammer and being able to choose between SA and DA. And the ergonomics
#of the SIG...the Glock, fine a pistol as it is (yes, I said it was a fine
#pistol) just cannot compare to the ergonomics of the SIG. It also can't
#compare in the accuracy catagory...
#
#
#					James
#
#James P. Callison       Microcomputer Coordinator        OU Law Library 

James,

The problem that you having with the Glock was probably related to range ammo.
Glocks prefer the food HOT.  My Glocks only fail to feed when I try to wean
them from gunpowder.  If you like softer recoil with a Glock - either heavier
bullets or smaller amounts of faster burning powder.  Most range loads are 
niether.

bill	 burge@qdeck.com
From: jheath@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Jim Heath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: $5000 Shopping Spree
Date: 23 Jul 92 21:02:48 GMT
Organization: Center for Environmental and Regulatory Information Systems, Purdue University

#From article <1992Jul23.000854.4178@athena.mit.edu>, by sybok@athena.mit.edu (The Rifleman):
# In article <11366@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.com (Clayton Cramer) writes:
# #
# #In article <9207211127.AA12411@mimsy.cs.UMD.EDU>, C08926RC@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu (Rob) writes:
# ## Guns magazine is currently running a contest in which the grand prize
# ## is a $5000 firearms shopping spree.  I thought this would be an interesting
# ## subject here.
# ## 
# ## If you had $5000 to spend on firearms and/or accessories, what would
# ## you buy?
# ## 
# ## Rob
# #
# #Barrett Light .50.  No question.  You never know when blue whales
# #will come back on land, or _Jurassic Park_ will cease to be fiction.
# 
# What about "Puff the Magic Dragon"--a 20mm self-powered gatling gun with
# six chambers.  Must be six or eight inches in diameter and cylindrically
# shaped, weighing in at 40 pounds or more.  You pick it up, squeeze
# the trigger, and the chambers spin around unleasing shots until the belt
# runs out.  Is this PTMD or maybe a "GE Chain Gun."  Are these transferable?
# My dream vacation would be a trip to Arizona wastelands with one of these
# machine gatling cannons, 1000 watermelons, and a mile-long belt rolled up
# on a giant spool.  I'd set the watermelons down in a pattern around me,
# put on my ears, pick up the cannon, and Rock 'n Roll. . . .
# 
# And some would say there's no "sporting purpose" for a 20mm cannon.  Not so.

Aside from the song, the "Puff the Magic Dragon" I remember was a
cargo plane with 2 or 3 miniguns mounted in it to fire behind the
wings.  Miniguns used .308 ammo I believe.  The 20mm cannon of
the same (or similar) design was called a Gatling Gun.  At least,
that's what I remember from ROTC movies a long time ago.  (and
then there was "The Green Berets" ;-{)  ) 
-- 
"Land of song, said the warrior bard,           Jim Heath
Though all the world betrays thee.
One sword, at least, thy rights shall guard, (The Minstrel Boy)
One faithful harp will praise thee."         (Thomas Moore)
From: bartb@hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com (Bart Bobbitt)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: M1A/M14 Magazines in Bolt Gun
Date: 31 Jul 92 15:58:06 GMT

Some time ago, someone wanted to know about converting a bolt gun to
accept M1A/M14 magazines.  Well, it's happening.

Mo's Competitor Supplies, Brookfield, CT, now has a conversion scheme to
adapt Model 70 Winchesters to accept these magazines.  The conversion
comes with one 9-round magazine.  That magazine conforms to the highpower
rule that limits the depth of the rifle to, I think, 3.25-in. below bore
center.
From: holger@vmars.tuwien.ac.at (Holger Reusch (Dipl. ALF in spe))
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Why FMJs as war ammo (was: Hollowpoints...)
Date: 24 Jul 92 15:37:03 GMT
Organization: Technical University Vienna, Dept. for Realtime Systems, AUSTRIA

In <9207232240.aa07162@s.s.ms.uky.edu> uk09365@nx21.mik.uky.edu (robert i kesten) writes:
#	The fact that the Geneva Convention (or is it the
#Hague Convention... whatever) requires military smallarms ammo
#to be full-metal-jacket just gives backing to this argument.
#These people assume that this proves that hollow-points are
#inhumane.

The *real* reason behind the restriction on FMJ bullets in war was,
according to my history professor, the fact that a wounded man ties up
more resources (treatment, reconvalescence, hospital) than a dead man.
Hence, from a logistic point of view, it's preferable to wound as many
of the enemy's soldiers instead of killing them.  The kill per hit
ratio is lowest for FMJ bullets, so that's what gets used in war.

Sounds logical and cynic enough to be true, hm? 

-- 
| Holger Reusch                             |
| Technical University of Vienna, Austria <-+--- No kangaroos here,
| Dept. for Real-Time Systems               |    sorry!
| holger@vmars.tuwien.ac.at                 |
From: booth@mdd.comm.mot.com (Greg Booth)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: JHP's In Canada??
Date: 31 Jul 92 00:24:38 GMT
Organization: Motorola - Mobile Data Division; Richmond, BC

In <m0mDagg-0001seC@rose.com> andrzej.taramina@rose.com (andrzej taramina) writes:


#Date Entered: 07-30-92 00:39

#Someone recently mentioned that Hollowpoints are illegal in handguns
#in Canada (or at least Ontario).  Anyone out there familiar with
#Canuck law that can verify or deny this statement?

#Sure would like to know since I have a box of .357 JHP's that would
#go great in my 686 revolver!

#Many thanks for the clarification.........

Trust me, the law is anything but clear.

Your JHPs are legal for your .357 rifle, but not for a pistol,
despite being more powerfull out of a rifle.
You can buy HP bullets, but not sell loaded rounds, except
if they are for a rifle.

Call up Canada Customs, they should know.


-- 
Greg Booth BSc                        | Diligentia-Vis-Celeritas
BCAA-PCDHF-BCWF-NFA-NRA-IPSC-BCFSS    |  	Incolumitas
Motorola Mobile Data Division         | 
booth@mdd.comm.mot.com cgb003@email.comm.mot.com