HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: glenn@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (GLENN ROBERT ALAN)
Subject: Re: Stay off the rudder!
Summary: The ground comes up quick...
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 04:45:38 GMT

In article <1992Oct1.201111.22634@ee.rochester.edu> dela@ee.rochester.edu (Del Armstrong) writes:
>In article <1992Sep30.162333.23749@umbc3.umbc.edu>, robie@umbc4.umbc.edu (Mr. William Robie; POSI (GRAD)) writes:
>|>Some even suggested that the safest way to descend through clouds was to
>|>induce a spin, then recover as you broke out.  I never followed the
>|>wisdom of this unless, of course you happened to be over the only crack
>|>in the cloud cover and you could see that it was safe to descend at that
>|>one particular spot.
>
>I've seen articles in Soaring which advocate spinning through a cloud
>deck if you get stuck on top. I have to admit, it seems like a
>reasonable procedure to me ... if you know that your plane has a safe,
>stable spin.

I've never heard of this method, it seems that in theory, it would work if
your plane has VERY good spin characteristics, and you don't have a world-
class case of vertigo when you break out.  There are a couple of
considerations, though.  First of all, how quick can you recover from a spin
once you break out?  Unless you are near a weather reporting station over 
flat terrain, there really is no way to know how low the ceiling is.  If you
are spinning down and the ceiling is 400', you may only get a couple of
seconds of "oh my GOD!!" before ->|SMACK|<-.  Second of all, when you are
spinning down, you may get a bad case of vertigo and may take significantly
longer time to recover.

The safest way, of course, is to avoid such situations.  But if you are
going to do any significant cross-country flying and you want to get
anywhere, experience indicates you might encounter such a situation.
So be prepared.  The private pilot test standards require that you
be proficient in IMC flight in emergency situations.  If you are planning
on traveling, make sure you stay proficient.  Get an IFR hood and another
friend who is a pilot.  Go up and practice level flight, turns, climbs,
decents, stall recoveries, VOR tracking (if you don't normally use it for
visual navigation).  Don't go barreling off into the wild blue yonder if
you think you might find IFR or on-top conditions, and you're not rated.
But for that one time when you absolutely, positively must get there 
and the weather is VFR but not quite perfect... 

If you plan on a lot of traveling, an instrument rating might be a wise
investment, although not all have the money.

-Robert A. Glenn
Major Electrical Engineering, CU Boulder
From: kelly@ipld01.hac.com (Keith Kelly)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
Subject: Re: wanna be a pilot with eye-glasses???
Date: 5 Oct 92 21:03:54 GMT
Organization: Hughes Aircraft Company - Canoga Park, CA

In article <1992Oct3.232600.5132@nic.funet.fi> asunta@convex.csc.FI (Miika Asunta) writes:
>
>I have about -6 in both eyes.
>
>Have I any chance to become a private pilot?

I concur with others in saying that all one needs is a 'Statement of 
Demonstrated Ability' or waiver.  This can apply to eyesight or just about
anything else.  I don't know the cost (I got mine when I was in the Air
Force) but I've had mine for 20 years and have yet to had an examiner ask
to even see my waiver when I get my second class examination.  Since there 
is no expiration date on the waiver, I would presume that the examiner would 
at least check to see that the current eye prescription is within the limits 
that are stated on the waiver or get a new waiver.  And I have 20/200 in one
eye and 20/400 in the other!!

-- 
Keith Kelly                    Internet   : kelly@ipla01.hac.com         
"Of all the things I've lost   UUCP       : ...!usc!!hacgate!ipla01!kelly
 I miss my mind the most"      Phone      : (818) 702-2328
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
From: braner@trantor.emba.uvm.edu (Moshe Braner)
Subject: climbing high with a fixed pitch prop
Organization: University of Vermont, EMBA Computer Facility
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 13:18:05 GMT

[please post articles relating to basic training in r.a.STUDENTS!]

Somebody at the NEFI suggested to me an unusual technique for climbing
in a simple airplane (e.g. my 172):  accelerate to cruise speed in level
flight, zoom up gaining altitude quickly until speed drops to about Vx,
repeat.  I've tried that and it sure is fun, but does it really increase
the overall climb rate?  I see two related theoretical considerations:

*	With a fixed pitch prop, more power can be delivered from the
	engine at airspeeds closer to cruise.  When climbing high, Vy
	goes down (closer to Vx) and at that low speed power output
	is reduced due to low engine RPMs.  (But it still is Vy!)

*	When accelerating to near cruise speed, drag goes up, which
	counteracts some of the increased power output.

So what's the total outcome?  I would also like to know how much would a
"climb" (lower pitched) prop would increase climb rate at altitude, and
ceiling?  Would one climb at a lower or higher IAS with such a prop?  And
how much would cruise speed and fuel consumption suffer?

-- 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Moshe Braner                          braner@emily.emba.uvm.edu
47 McGee Road, Essex, VT 05452        (802) 879-0876                        
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.ifr
From: medin@catbyte.b30.ingr.com (Dave Medin)
Subject: Re: Stay off the rudder!
Reply-To: medin@catbyte.b30.ingr.com
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville AL
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 16:07:06 GMT

In article <1992Oct5.231603.24358@porthos.cc.bellcore.com>, patter@dasher.uucp (24224-guthrie) writes:
|> In article <1992Oct5.200118.18558@ee.rochester.edu> dela@ee.rochester.edu (Del Armstrong) writes:

|> >- Is it generally considered possible to fly IFR with just airspeed,
|> >  altimeter and a compass?
|> 
|> In an open cockpit, yes but very difficult. In a cabin aircraft, generally no.
|> 
|> >  I imagine airspeed and altimeter would be
|> >  fine for controlling pitch, but can you keep the wings level with just
|> >  a compass?
|> 
|> Exactly. With the old biplanes, they handled this by the feel of the wind
|> on a cheek and the sound of the wires. 
|> 
|> >  How about the trick Mr. Robbie referred to of using just
|> >  rudder and compass to keep the wings level, will that really work?
|> 
|> All IFR pilots are required to do some training with the vacuum instruments
|> out (this usually means with the attitude indicator non-functional). It
|> is possible to use the needle and ball as an attitute indicator (but *I*
|> can't do it). I would suppose that the magnetic compass could help a
|> little, since it tilts to one side when you bank. You'd have to be very
|> precise.

I was trained to make a straight-ahead descent using airspeed, power (tach), and
a compass. The technique is outlined in Kerschner's "Student Pilot Handbook"
and his "Advanced Pilot Handbook," both available through Sporty's and IMHO
the best texts out there.

The technique is practiced on a heading of South, where any deviations
in heading are exaggerated (remember the NOSE rule for compass
performance--North Opposite South Exceeds). It would been quite
hellish to do this in turbulence...

-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------
       Dave Medin			Phone:	(205) 730-3169 (w)
    Intergraph Corp.				(205) 837-1174 (h)
       M/S GD3004
  Huntsville, AL 35894 		Internet: medin@catbyte.b30.ingr.com
				UUCP:  ...uunet!ingr!b30!catbyte!medin

   ******* Everywhere You Look (at least around my office) *******

 * The opinions expressed here are mine (or those of my machine)
From: kendall@sceng.ub.com (Greg Kendall)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
Subject: Re: wanna be a pilot with eye-glasses???
Date: 5 Oct 92 18:16:21 GMT
Organization: Ungermann Bass

In article <X1a5RB1w165w@hstorm.hacktic.nl> north@hstorm.hacktic.nl (Ad Timmering) writes:

>Hi Miika,

>asunta@convex.csc.FI (Miika Asunta) writes:
>> I have about -6 in both eyes.
>> Have I any chance to become a private pilot?

The FAA is mostly interested in your corrected visual acuity, not your
prescription.  If you are corrected to 20/20, have normal color vision
and depth preception, not problem.

>As far as I know, YES. My father has -5.25 in both eyes (+/- 0.25) and he
>definitely passed his medical check, they made no problem of it. He can NOT
                                                                  ^^^^^^^^^^
>become a commercial pilot, but that wasn't really his intention anyway. :-)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
WRONG!  I wear -14.00 and -15.00 diopter lenses, I have a Commercial 
certificate and a 2nd class medical.
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.ifr
From: mancus@zaphod.jsc.nasa.gov (Keith Mancus/MDSSC)
Subject: Re: Partial panel ? (was:Re: Stay off the rudder!)
Followup-To: rec.aviation.ifr
Organization: IGOAL, NASA Johnson Space Center, Houston
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 14:29:02 GMT

In article <WD.92Oct6114803@sam.cs.tu-berlin.de> wd@cs.tu-berlin.de (Wolfgang Diestelkamp) writes:
>In article <1992Oct5.231603.24358@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> patter@dasher.uucp (24224-guthrie) writes:
>
>> All IFR pilots are required to do some training with the vacuum instruments
>> out (this usually means with the attitude indicator non-functional). It
>> is possible to use the needle and ball as an attitute indicator (but *I*
>> can't do it). I would suppose that the magnetic compass could help a
>> little, since it tilts to one side when you bank. You'd have to be very
>> precise.

>This is one thing I have never really understood; I know (in principal,
>and I have tried it a couple of times with instructor), how to fly
>on this sort of partial panel, but the question that always came
>up was: The "needle" (or the turn indicator [not the ball]) is a gyroscope
>instrument, so if the vacuum system fails, how come this one does not fail ?
>-- 
>Wolfgang Diestelkamp
>wd@cs.tu-berlin.de
>wolfgang@first.gmd.de

  Because the turn indicator is normally an electric device, while the
attitude indicator and directional gyro are vacuum instruments.  I'm
pretty sure there's an FAA reg requiring that they be driven from different
sources, although you can get the reverse (older needle-and-ball's are
vacuum driven, and electric AI and DG's are available).

  While minimal panels are common in older lightplanes, I'm not sure
I've ever seen one without a needle and ball.  This includes the J-3's
This includes the J-3's in which my first rides took place.

  You're lucky; I had the AI tumble itself while climbing out on my
(VFR) checkride, under the hood...fortunately, I don't consider partial
panel a big deal, at least without the hassle of talking to Center at
the same time. :-)

-- 
| Keith Mancus    <mancus@sweetpea.jsc.nasa.gov>                         |
|                 N5WVR                                                  |
|  "If I owned Texas and I owned Hell, I'd rent out Texas and live       |
|  in Hell." -General Sheridan                                           |
Xref: sparky rec.aviation.piloting:55 rec.aviation.ifr:34
From: ron@topaz.bds.com (Ron Natalie)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.ifr
Subject: Re: Partial panel ? (was:Re: Stay off the rudder!)
Date: 6 Oct 1992 16:18:58 GMT
Organization: BDS Systems
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: topaz.bds.com

> The "needle" (or the turn indicator [not the ball]) is a gyroscope
> instrument, so if the vacuum system fails, how come this one does not fail.
 


While the heading and attitude indicators are driven off usually the
same vacuum pump, most turn coordinators are electrically driven, and
shouldn't (ha ha) fail at the same time as the vacuum driven instruments.

-Ron
From: berry@athos.pei.com (Berry Kercheval)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
Subject: Re: FAA waiver (Re: wanna be a pilot with eye-glasses???)
Date: 5 Oct 92 16:18:48 GMT
	<1992Oct5.154220.14392@athena.mit.edu>
Reply-To: berry@pei.com
Organization: Protocol Engines, Inc., Mt. View, California

>>>>> On 5 Oct 92 15:42:20 GMT, dac@athena.mit.edu (David A Cohn) said:
David> It varies. I've heard tell of people needing to go up with an examiner
David> and demonstrate that they can still fly (to a limited extent) without
David> their glasses.


I did this during my PP training and I'd encourage all myopics to do
so as well.  (WITH!!! an instructor!)

I took off, and took off my glasses on downwind.  With
Dave-my-instructor hovering over the controls, I discovered that I
could still see the runway, judge its shape (and therefore my position
and height) and even still read the instruments, sort of.  I know from
experience, for instance, that on final the airspeed needle should be
at about 4:30.  This was easy to see, even if I could no longer read
the numbers.

I proceeded to make the best landing of the day :-)

This exercise went a long way to building confidence in general, as
well as dispelling my fear that if I lost my glasses I was Tango
Uniform.  I am now pretty confident that in the unlikely event that I
lost my glasses, I could get down in one piece if I could find an
airport.  (probably I'd declare an emergency and ask for radar vectors
to the nearest airport, prefereably one with PAR or an ILS)

But please, DO NOT attempt this without an CFI or at the very least an
experienced safety pilot in the right seat, and if he says 'I've got
it' or 'go around' DO IT!

  --berry

(P.S. Even so,  I fly with *4* pair of glasses: my regulars, my
prescription sunglasses, and the backup prescription sunglasses and
prescription safety glasses that live in my flight bag.)

--
Berry Kercheval :: berry@pei.com :: Protocol Engines, Inc.  Mt. View, CA
"Car pool fatigue: it's like shell shock, but you don't get any VA benefits.
They just fill your gas tank and send you back to the front."
From: north@hstorm.hacktic.nl (Ad Timmering)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
Subject: Re: wanna be a pilot with eye-glasses???
Date: 5 Oct 92 11:48:30 GMT
Organization: Hstorm BBS, Den Helder - The Netherlands

al@qiclab.scn.rain.com (Alan Peterman) writes:

> I have -7.25 and -8 vision, and had NO problem getting a waiver for a 2nd
> class physical.  Since the waiver has no expiration, I don't forsee
> (maybe cause I'm blind?) any problems with this in the future.  There 
> are lots of other things that may keep me from getting a medical, but
> vision is one of the easiest to get waived.  It's also one of the
> easiest to "fake" - but that's a whole 'nother thread..
Well as far as I know it's not possible to get a waiver in the Netherlands.
Of course, I may be wrong.

Regards,
        Ad.

--
Ad Timmering, SP-ASEL
north@hstorm.hacktic.nl
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
From: dworden@cwis.unomaha.edu (David Paul Worden)
Subject: Private Pilots
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 16:08:12 GMT

I am interested in getting a fixed wing private pilots license as well as a
rotorcraft (helocopter) pilots license.  I would like to know approx. how long
it takes to get one, as well as, an approx. cost.  Please post a response or 
e-mail me at dworden@cwis.unomaha.edu.

David
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David P. Worden                                        dworden@cwis.unomaha.edu

ALWAYS A MAN AHEAD OF HIS TIME.  At his Highland Park, Michigan auto plant, 
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
From: "Steven Klos" <p00031@psilink.com>
Subject: Re: I wanna be a pilot...
Organization: Open Software Associates
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 16:38:05 GMT
X-Mailer: PSILink (3.2)

>DATE:   1 Oct 92 18:31:19 GMT
>FROM:   Robert Hayden <rahayden@news.weeg.uiowa.edu>
>
>(in general) worth it?  I realize entry-level positions is probably as a
>midnight cargo-carrier to Fed-Ex or something, but it is something I've
>always toyed with in the back of my brain.  Any information would be welcomed.

Actually, flying cargo for Fed-Ex is supposed to be a pretty cushy job 
with a very good salary behind it (at least that's what I've heard from 
a friend of mine in the Navy with lots of Turboprop experience in P3's). 
An entry position is more like using a tug to pull gliders up and the 
pay is something like - here's your room and board and a bit of pocket 
change.  

I've been interested in getting into aviation myself, but from 
everything I've heard from talking to various folks in the business, 
it's really tough and you have to sell your body to get enough hours for 
any real company to hire you.  Currently, my friend in the navy said 
that their are a lot of P3 instructors (read - high time logbooks) who 
would like to retire, but just can't get jobs in the airlines.  

Don't want to disuade you from getting into aviation, but for myself, I 
didn't want to be a poor college student again (i.e. no money coming in) 
so didn't go the route of aviation.  Maybe I should have as I'm in a 
start up company right now and feel like a poor college student again :-).

Cheers,

SK


Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.ifr
From: lhe@sics.se (Lars-Henrik Eriksson)
Subject: Re: Partial panel ? (was:Re: Stay off the rudder!)
Organization: Swedish Institute of Computer Science, Kista
	<1992Oct5.161218.18416@porthos.cc.bellcore.com>
	<1992Oct5.200118.18558@ee.rochester.edu>
	<1992Oct5.231603.24358@porthos.cc.bellcore.com>
	<WD.92Oct6114803@sam.cs.tu-berlin.de>
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 13:09:24 GMT

In article <WD.92Oct6114803@sam.cs.tu-berlin.de> wd@cs.tu-berlin.de (Wolfgang Diestelkamp) writes:
   In article <1992Oct5.231603.24358@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> patter@dasher.uucp (24224-guthrie) writes:

   > All IFR pilots are required to do some training with the vacuum instruments
   > out (this usually means with the attitude indicator non-functional). It
   > is possible to use the needle and ball as an attitute indicator 

   This is one thing I have never really understood; I know (in principal,
   and I have tried it a couple of times with instructor), how to fly
   on this sort of partial panel, but the question that always came
   up was: The "needle" (or the turn indicator [not the ball]) is a gyroscope
   instrument, so if the vacuum system fails, how come this one does not fail ?

It is electrically powered!! Haven't you noticed the sound of the turn
coordinator spinning up when you turn on the main switch?
--
Lars-Henrik Eriksson                            Internet: lhe@sics.se
Swedish Institute of Computer Science           Phone (intn'l): +46 8 752 15 09
Box 1263                                        Telefon (nat'l): 08 - 752 15 09
S-164 28  KISTA, SWEDEN                         Fax: +46 8 751 72 30
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
From: aps@world.std.com (Armando P. Stettner)
Subject: Re: Private Pilots
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 18:51:08 GMT

I did my private pilot in about 3 months.  I flew about three times
a week.  This also included switching from a less experienced instructor
(seemingly interested only in building his time) to a retired American
Airlines 747 captain/instructor.

I did not take a formal ground school but just studied the material
(most of it was really fun).  Now, with these red Gliem (spelling?)
books, studying for the exams should be very easy.  I highly recommend
these books.  I also recommend the Kershner books.

	armando
From: megazone@obsidian.WPI.EDU (MegaZone23)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
Subject: Re: Private Pilots
Date: 2 Oct 1992 01:20:11 GMT
Organization: WPI USAF -- United Society of Animation Fans
NNTP-Posting-Host: obsidian.wpi.edu

In article <1992Oct1.160812.392@news.unomaha.edu> dworden@cwis.unomaha.edu (David Paul Worden) writes:
>I am interested in getting a fixed wing private pilots license as well as a
>rotorcraft (helocopter) pilots license.  I would like to know approx. how long
>it takes to get one, as well as, an approx. cost.  Please post a response or 

Hmm... after several years of doing it while I could I finally got mine...
fixed wing that is..

But Richmor aviation (schenectady NY) has had a few students get their license
in les than 2 weeks. Of course that means you have to work your ass off and
fly like everyday for a few hours... But it can be done.

Cost is in the range of $2500. I believe it is the Part 141 training system.

###############################################################################
# I have one prejudice, and that is against stupidity.  Use your mind, think! #
#Email megazone@wpi.wpi.edu  Moderator, WPI anime FTP site 130.215.24.1 /anime#
###############################################################################
From: al@qiclab.scn.rain.com (Alan Peterman)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
Subject: Re: wanna be a pilot with eye-glasses???
Date: 5 Oct 92 00:54:29 GMT
Organization: SCN Research/Qic Laboratories of Tigard, Oregon.

In article <X1a5RB1w165w@hstorm.hacktic.nl> north@hstorm.hacktic.nl (Ad Timmering) writes:
>As far as I know, YES. My father has -5.25 in both eyes (+/- 0.25) and he
>definitely passed his medical check, they made no problem of it. He can NOT
>become a commercial pilot, but that wasn't really his intention anyway. :-)

I have -7.25 and -8 vision, and had NO problem getting a waiver for a 2nd
class physical.  Since the waiver has no expiration, I don't forsee
(maybe cause I'm blind?) any problems with this in the future.  There 
are lots of other things that may keep me from getting a medical, but
vision is one of the easiest to get waived.  It's also one of the
easiest to "fake" - but that's a whole 'nother thread..


-- 
Alan L. Peterman                                 (503)-684-1984 hm & work
                       al@qiclab.scn.rain.com
It's odd how as I get older, the days are longer, but the years are shorter!
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
From: asunta@convex.csc.FI (Miika Asunta)
Subject: wanna be a pilot with eye-glasses???
Organization: Finnish Academic and Research Network Project - FUNET
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 92 23:26:00 GMT


I have about -6 in both eyes.

Have I any chance to become a private pilot?
--
Miika Asunta
asunta@convex.csc.fi			Double Bass Player
tel. +358-0-494 093			Macintosh Programmer
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
From: dac@athena.mit.edu (David A Cohn)
Subject: Re: FAA waiver (Re: wanna be a pilot with eye-glasses???) 
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 15:42:20 GMT

In article <1992Oct4.225858.21790@netcom.com> hchong@netcom.com (Hoi Chong) writes:
>When I passed my 3rd class medical, I asked and the doctor replied that
>the only way I am going to get 2nd class is to get a FAA waiver.  To get
>that waiver I have to go for a thorough eye examination to ensure I 
>don't have any eye problem (other than short-sightedness).  Has anybody 
>done this?  How is it?  How costly is it?  How hard is it to "pass"?

It varies. I've heard tell of people needing to go up with an examiner
and demonstrate that they can still fly (to a limited extent) without
their glasses.

I was the other extreme: I asked about a 2nd class medical and the AME
asked me if I'd had any problems flying caused by my myopia. I hadn't,
and he granted me one right there, listing the reason as "on basis of
previous flight experience." No time, no money, no hassle. Your
mileage may vary. Ask your AME.

-David "Pablo" Cohn		cohn@psyche.mit.edu
 still no feathers
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
From: verhulst@raven.aosg.gsf.dec.com ()
Subject: Re: wanna be a pilot with eye-glasses???
Organization: AOSG
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 14:25:17 GMT


>I have about -6 in both eyes.
>Have I any chance to become a private pilot?

In which country?   I am -6.75 in both eyes (fully correctable to 20/20)
and have had no problem at all in getting a US 3rd class medical.

Tony v.
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting