HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kos@cunyvms1.gc.cuny.edu (Bob Kosovsky)
Subject: Re: Korngold
Reply-To: kos@cunyvms1.gc.cuny.edu
Organization: Computer Center, CUNY Graduate School, New York NY 10036
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 23:24:38 GMT

In article <CB.92Sep3111810@tamarack13.timbuk>, cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster) writes:
>   As I understand it, [Korngold] was not just *good*; he essentially invented
>   the whole technique of film scoring.  Maybe Bob K. can fill this in.
>
>Michel Hafner writes:
>   That's not true. He certainly was one of the top five film music
>   composers in Hollywood from the mid 30s to the mid 40s, but he didn't
>   invent the basic scoring techniques...

The assuming there are "basic scoring techniques" Korngold himself took credit
(so far as I know) of basically two techniques (neither of which qualifies,
in my opinion, as "basic").
1.  He felt obliged to develop a tighter syncronization between action/dialogue
and music.  If there were only a few seconds for music in between other events
he would take advantage of it.  (I think this actually was done before, but
Korngold probably took it to an extreme degree.)

2.  One technique that I think is very distinct in Korngold's films is no
doubt adaptated from opera.  This is the technique of underscoring someone's
voice with a different pitch range.  This is also the secret of Wagner's instru-
mentation.  For example, a soprano could be backed with lower or higher 
instruments.  But to have instruments in the same range would contribute to
drowning her out.  In Korngold's later films (I noticed it strongly in
JUAREZ [1939]) he also tries to highlight the (non-singing) voices of the
actors and actresses by deriving an orchestration that doesn't conflict with
their vocal ranges.

I think a telling think about Korngold was that after he achived a certain
successful way of doing things, he seemed not inclined to modify or grow,
or want to change.  Perhaps that's among the reasons why he wanted to
give up film music - that he couldn't find his capacity to grow in the
field.  I've never seen his last film, MAGIC FIRE (1956) - a bio about
Wagner, done about 10 years after his previous effort, but I would be
surprised if it showed advancement.  Those composers who could adapt and
develop themselves through film music were the most successful (e.g. Steiner,
Newman; even Copland and Thomson in their brief stints).
Bob Kosovsky
Graduate Center -- Ph.D. Program in Music(student)/ City University of New York
New York Public Library -- Music Division
bitnet:   kos@cunyvms1.bitnet        internet: kos@cunyvms1.gc.cuny.edu
Disclaimer:  My opinions do not necessarily represent those of my institutions.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: rwd4f@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Rob Dobson)
Subject: Re: Beethoven's 10th. Symphony
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 15:44:57 GMT

Chandos's edition of Beethovens complete symphonies (an excellent collection,
IMNSHO, conducted by Weller) also contains the 1st movement of the 10th
symphony, "realized and completed by Barry Cooper". I never listened to
this so i dont know what its like....

-rob
From: jseboldt@pnet51.orb.mn.org (John Seboldt)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Help!  Suggestions needed for Violin/Organ music!
Date: 13 Sep 92 05:05:02 GMT
Organization: People-Net [pnet51], Minneapolis, MN.

lungtt@gus19.ecn.purdue.edu (Terence T. Lung) writes:
>The subject heading says it all.
>I am a violinist and I have a bad itch to duo it out with an organ.
>
>I can only think of a handful of pieces though:
>(1) various Albinoni
>(2) selected movements from Vivaldi's Concertos for Two Orchestras
>(3) Vitali's Chaconne in G minor
>
>well that's it.  Does anyone know anymore?
>
>Thanks
>
>at loss for ideas,
>Terence

You will find a number of pieces by Josef Rheinberger if you want some nice
rich 19th century, well-crafted items.  I can think of a "Romanze", I believe,
that I have heard, for which I don't have the program.  Sic your local
excellent classical music seller on it!

: John Seboldt...Minneapolis, MN...As a ham, K0JD...as a human,       :
: right-brained yet right-handed...as a musician, techie yet creative :
:   UUCP: {crash, tcnet, petrus, quest}!orbit!pnet51!jseboldt         :
:   ARPA: crash!orbit!pnet51!jseboldt@nosc.mil                        :
:   INET: jseboldt@pnet51.orb.mn.org                                  :
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Looking for Canon in D Music...
From: <DMW122@psuvm.psu.edu>
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 18:26:01 EDT
Organization: Penn State University

Hi,
     I don't read this news group, but maybe you guys can help me.  My girlfrie
nd's favorite song is Canon in D.  I've two different versions currently, but I
 know there has to be more advanced piano solos for Canon in D out there...
     Difficulty is not a concern.  If anyone knows of anywhere I can get a copy
 of a really advanced (and nice sounding) version of Pachelbel's Canon in D, I
would be extremely grateful.   Thanks:)       Duane Whitlock
                                               DMW122@psuvm.psu.edu
From: wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: re : recommendations for choral music
Date: 10 Sep 92 17:30:37 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620

In article <1992Sep10.141210.23350@Princeton.EDU>, roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig) writes:
> In article <1992Sep9.122159.8776@vax.oxford.ac.uk> wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk writes:
>>In article <8SEP199220025974@eccles.caltech.edu>, inr@eccles.caltech.edu (I. Neill Reid) writes:
>>> as a follow-up to wilcox@vax.oxford etc etc etc
> 
>>>  1) I think the original poster meant the Westminster Choir (as in
>>>  opposite Princeton) - not the Westminster Cathedral Choir. They're
>>>  pretty fine
> 
>>Fair enough: it's not a choir which is known over here.
> 
> A small point: I'm sure that *some* of their dozens of recordings with
> the NY Phil and Phila. Orch under Bernstein, Stoky, Ormandy, Muti,
> etc. have been released in England over the last four decades...
> 
OK, OK. I take this to mean that they are actually more of a chorus than a
choir, which is not an area I have much knowledge of. (READ: I am an appalling
snob who thinks that every choir with more than 40 people in it sounds
precisely the same; in any case I'm not interested, being too pre-occupied with
my own particular concerns to waste much time on large-scale choral works which
can be performed on one run-through. ;-)
Alternatively, I could have mis-read CD labels: I don't read them all *that*
closely. (And yes, you're right about US high-school choirs: I avoid them like
the plague!) 
-- 

Stephen Wilcox             |   Remember what happened to the dinosaurs!
wilcox@maths.oxford.ac.uk  |    I did---and look what happened to me.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: smith@honesty.Stanford.EDU (Jeremy Smith)
Subject: THE Mozart *Requiem* 
Reply-To: smith@honesty.Stanford.EDU.Stanford.EDU (Jeremy Smith)
Organization: Stanford University Computer Science Department
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 06:44:52 GMT

In article <1992Sep12.142858.22192@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> mvalinis@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Michael J Valinis) writes:
>May I recommend a group that does not seen to have been mentioned yet?
>
>For a larger group, what about the Rundfunkchor Leipzig?  I have them on two
>albums, both of which are favorites of mine:
>
>1) Mozart : Requiem (casstte: Philips 7337 320 - also on CD)
>   Performed with Margaret Price, Trudeliese Schmidt, Theo Adam, and the
>   Staatskapelle Dresden, under Peter Schreier.    Awesome!!

O.K., but you should really here the Monteverdi Choir under the baton
of John Elliot Gardiner.  Schreier takes too liesurely a pace in Rex  
Tremendae for my taste.  Barbara Bonney, Anne Sophie Von Otter, Hans
Peter Blochwitz, and Willard White are the singers: an superlative cast 
with the exception of White.  The balance and clarity of this recording 
are beyond virtually every recording of Mozart's requiem i've heard with 
the exception of Christopher Hogwood's version.  

Still, I am wanting more from this piece.  As good as Gardiner's version
is,  the English Baroque Soloists occasionally (very seldom actually)
lack the requisite intensity.  But perhaps i'm expecting too much.
Soloists, Choir, and Orchestra are a handful to manage.

Jeremy.

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: steve@fid.morgan.com (Steve Apter)
Subject: Re: re : recommendations for choral music
Organization: Morgan Stanley & Co., New York, NY
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 19:36:04 GMT

In article <8SEP199220025974@eccles.caltech.edu> inr@eccles.caltech.edu (I. Neill Reid) writes:

> Other fine groups that sprang to mind later - the Huelgas ensemble under
>Paul van Nevel (I think - try their Brumel Et ecce terrae)

Yes.  This is an astonishingly beautiful work, and a lovely performance.
On Sony.

> Neill Reid - inr@eccles.caltech.edu
From: genetic+@pitt.edu (Dr. Dave)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Six fingers to play harpsichord, eh?
Date: 8 Sep 92 17:51:28 GMT
Organization: Department of Industrial Engineering

Thus spake packer@amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov (Charles Packer):
>
>Anyway, was there in that era a =theory= of why the unused fingers
>shouldn't be used?

My high-school madrigal director said that the theory was as follows:

	The correct way to strike the key is longitudinally, with a
	curving motion, so that the finger retains its natural relaxed
	curved position, and the key is struck with maximum moment and
	precision.  However, to do this with the thumb would involve a
	bizarre rotation of the wrist, throwing the other fingers down
	below the level of the keys, in order to strike with the tip of
	the thumb in the same way that you strike with the tips of the
	other fingers.  To strike with the *edge* of the thumb was as
	unthinkable as to strike with the pad (or edge) of one of the
	other fingers.


-- 
      David M. Tate      | From my dugout sleep I fell into the Game
 dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu | And I crouched in the circle while my insides froze
 Randall 'Chico' Jarrell | One out from death, one hit from dreamt-of glory
"Death of a Pinch Hitter"| I woke to 'Strike One!' and the nightmare sliders...
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: gds@oahu.cs.ucla.edu (Greg Skinner)
Subject: Re: Ever heard "Synths are making orchestras useless"?
Originator: gds@oahu.cs.ucla.edu
Keywords: synths orchestra obsolete
Reply-To: gds@cs.ucla.edu (Greg Skinner)
Organization: in your face!
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 19:37:41 GMT

In article <6600@kielouta.fi> f1toyl@uta.fi (Topi Ylinen) writes:
>Computer music lacks committedness, vividness, immediacy and all the
>"ethereal beauties" we have learnt to respect in classical music.
>Notes are simply certain frequencies.

I agree to a certain extent.  It depends on the context in which the
music is set.

>Thus, the only kind of music which may be threatened by synths, is
>(IMHO deservedly) popular music, which, as is, lacks the
>above-mentioned qualities already... (as a rule, at least)

There is a movement in popular music to return to acoustic
instruments in contexts where acoustics had once been used but
electronic instruments were substituted because it was the "in" thing
to do.

--gregbo
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster)
Subject: Re: Mahler's 5th Symphony by Solti and remastering CDs
In-reply-to: conrad@brahms.udel.edu's message of Mon, 7 Sep 1992 17:52:40 GMT
Organization: pubs
	<4SEP199209185595@portal.lasc.lockheed.com>
	<CB.92Sep4160011@tamarack13.timbuk> <Bu7yzs.E7v@news.udel.edu>
Distribution: usa
Date: 8 Sep 92 11:58:50 CDT

Jon Conrad writes:

   Oh, you meant "never conducted the Chicago Symphony" (while Solti was
   music director.  True, but so what?  Karajan never guest-conducted 
   anyone else's orchestra ANYwhere.

No, what I meant (I realize this is getting tedious) was, the Berlin
Phil never visited Chicago during Solti's tenure there (as well as that
Karajan didn't conduct the CSO in this period which may be less
significant).

   >In this battle of
   >the titans, my sympathies are with Solti across the board.

   First you'll have to convince us there was such a battle.  Maybe there
   was, but the fictitious nature of your examples doesn't inspire
   confidence.

This rivalry was a staple of Chicago music critics when I lived there.
I seem to have my facts wrong concerning Bayreuth, but if there's
absolutely nothing to this gossip, quite a few people are spinning
something out of thin air (which wouldn't be the first time in history,
of course).  Can anyone shed light on the hypothesis that the purported
dispute derives from the WWII period?

Chris
From: givler@bermuda.cbm.commodore.com (Greg Givler)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: voice training and sinus conditions
Date: 14 Sep 92 17:30:59 GMT
Organization: Another Amiga UNIX System

In article <46976@dscatl.UUCP> mgresham@dscatl.UUCP (Mark Gresham) writes:
>In article <1992Sep8.200108.24418@cs.ucla.edu> gds@oahu.cs.ucla.edu (Greg Skinner) writes:
>>I've been working with a voice teacher for the last few months, mostly
>>on eliminating my voice break.  She thinks one problem I am having
>>with my progress is that I may have a deviated septum, or some other
>>sinus condition that has affected my ability to get a lot of resonance
>>in my head voice.
>
>Did she look up your nose or something?  What makes her come to
>the conclusion of a deviated septum?  As for a sinus condition or
>etc. thingys like it, you'd probably have had reason to know that
>before taking lessons, for sure.

I had wondered about this myself. I have had bad sinuses all my life, and
you just learn to sing around it. There are times that that is difficult
but it is not impossible. In fact I think it helped me when I had to
sing with a cold. You can get by all the phelm that way.
>Cheers,
>
>--Mark Gresham
>
>dscatl!mgresham@gatech.edu
>
>==========================

Greg
-- 
Greg Givler                 | "If you're not going to kill me,
Commodore Product Assurance | I have things to do." - From Darkman
givler@cbmvax.commodore.com |
===============================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster)
Subject: Gesa:nge, Lieder 
Organization: pubs
Date: 8 Sep 92 12:32:10 CDT


To the guy I sent a note to about that word (see Subject): I was
thinking of Brahms's Vier ernste Gesa:nge.

Chris Brewster
cb@cray.com
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Friday, 4 Sep 1992 15:14:31 CDT
From: <U58402@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: _New Yorker_ story by Gopnik
 <1992Sep1.152055.29447@Princeton.EDU>
 <1992Sep1.170656.7127@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>
 <1992Sep1.234813.24799@ccu.umanitoba.ca>

In article <1992Sep1.234813.24799@ccu.umanitoba.ca>, feld@ccu.umanitoba.ca
(Michael Feld) says:
>
>Is the Adam Gopnik story in the recent _New Yorker_, "Musical Fathers"
>about the sort of people (or the sort of fatherly ones, anyway) who
>read this newsgroup?  Should we/they react hostilely?


I actually thought it was very funny. Those who read this newsgroup
should read this story, if they haven't done so. I saw many aspects of
my own behavior being skewered in the story.

Wilbur Pan
(aka u58402@uicvm.uic.edu
 at the ever so friendly and personal univ. of ill. at chicago)


Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dbrooks@penge.osf.org (David Brooks)
Subject: Re: Last Night of the Proms / words
Organization: Open Software Foundation
	<30232@goofy.Apple.COM> <1992Sep9.115524.8775@vax.oxford.ac.uk>
Date: 13 Sep 92 23:03:35

wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk writes:

>Can someone sort this out? I seem to remember that Elgar set the whole of the
>`Land of Hope and Glory' verse in the Coronation Ode, but to completely
>different music for a soprano soloist. He also used the Pomp and Circumstance
>Music to set the verse Dave quotes, for full chorus. Someone else then set
>`Land of Hope...' to the March, for Lord alone knows what reason. Is my memory
>failing me or am I right?

Words and music were indeed together in the Coronation Ode.  "Land of Hope
and Glory", slightly adapted from the March, was the 7th and last number.
Here's the story according to Michael Kennedy.  It seems to deny the common
idea that Elgar hated the words, although E. was often ambivalent about
such things.

Marches 1 and 2 were written by August 1901, and performed to much success.
Kennedy thinks the first audience heard "a tune that is at once memorable,
stirring, disturbing, and singable."  I certainly wish I could hear it
without the mental overlay of the words.

E. had been corresponding with A. C. Benson about a Coronation ode since
March, and the Ode was ready in April 1902, for an intended June 26 gala.
The King had suggested, apparently in November, that the aria from the
March should be sung, although Jaeger, E's musical conscience, had warned
against setting any words at all: "it will sound horrible".  But Elgar was
"never one to bother too much about whether the words fitted his tunes if
he thought the tunes good enough".  [Good, or rather bad, examples of these
can be found in "The Music Makers"].

But the King's appendicitis operation forced a cancellation.  Many were
disappointed.  E. to Jaeger: "Don't for heaven's sake sympathise with
me...My own interest in the thing ceased as usual when I had finished the
MS.", although he conducted the eventual first performance.

So there were some "consolation" performances, which probably gave rise to
the idea that "Land of Hope and GLory" was somehow separate: this movement
was first sung by Clara Butt in London in June, and the Ode complete in
Sheffield in October, with Muriel Foster the contralto.  Since the
resulting instant popularity of the words, audiences have heard the
self-confident assertiveness, rather than the note of recessional and
melancholy.

I think the idea that the awful words pursued Elgar like a wraith is due
mostly to Ken Russell's overheated imagination.  And I agree with Kennedy
that "attempts to change the words have met with little success, because
only the squeamish worry about them any more."

If you're still with me, I have a question.  How did the tune become
associated with American graduation ceremonies?  It seems so utterly
inappropriate, especially without the words.  The optimism of No. 4 would
be much more fitting, to my mind.
--
David Brooks					dbrooks@osf.org
Open Software Foundation			uunet!osf.org!dbrooks
Four more months!  Four more months!
From: mgresham@dscatl.UUCP (Mark Gresham)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: recommandation for good performances of choral works.
Date: 13 Sep 92 04:48:01 GMT
Reply-To: mgresham@dscatl.UUCP (Mark Gresham)
Organization: Digital Systems Co,  Atlanta, Ga

In article <1992Sep11.114011.8808@vax.oxford.ac.uk> wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk writes:
>> (I don't suggest that the school of training amongst Anglican
>> choirs is a hoax, but that the promotional representation
>> in America of what is THE Engish sound perhaps is.).)
>
>It's not: the vast majority of smallish choirs (<40) sing in what they imagine
>to be the same way. I happen to be lucky and have sung in a few choirs who
>deliberately *don't* try to ape Kings and Rutter's band.

Perhaps I should have clarified that I mean Northeastern American
choirs trying to imitate the "English sound."  We don't have in
the U.S. a long-standing tradition of a cathedral schooling that
trains boys (or girls) from age 7 in a consistant, common
school of vocal/choral technique.  Granted, its attraction comes
partly from the distinctly different sound produced from what is
the majority "American" (eastern seaboard) choral sound, which for
my tastes comes across often as bellicose and bovine.
  There is another option, which one may identify with
Minneapolis/St. Paul's choirs/choruses, which is still in the
minority in the U.S., but which produces the clarity of the
English sound without the cool wimpiness of the Cambridge Singers,
and has breadth of dynamic range and warmth without being bovine
or having a constant vibrato you could fly a Boeing 757 through.
(Or having an 'edge' to some voices.)
This "Minnesota sound" might be most favorably compared
(naturally) with choral sounds out of, to the best of my
current knowledge, Scandinavia.

Cheers,

--Mark Gresham

dscatl!mgresham@gatech.edu

==========================
From: cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Sibelius 2nd symphony
Date: 4 Sep 92 20:00:19 GMT
Article-I.D.: tamarack.CB.92Sep4150017
Organization: pubs
In-reply-to: inr@eccles.caltech.edu's message of Fri, 4 Sep 1992 09:01:00 GMT

Jason E Frank

   >Has anyone out there had a chance to listen to Blomstedt/San
   >Francisco Symphony's reading of Sibelius Symphony #2, Tapiola,
   >and Valse Triste?  I'm in the market for a "thinking-person's"
   >Sibelius' 2nd ...

There are those of use who think the second should be retired since it's
so much weaker (with its unfortunate heart-on-sleeve Tchaikovsky
influence) than what follows.  Listen to the Sixth conducted by Colin
Davis.  (I don't mean to be crotchety; I just am.)

Chris Brewster
cb@cray.com
From: arora@cs.Buffalo.EDU (Kulbir S. Arora)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: ENCHANTED APRIL soundtrack?
Date: 7 Sep 92 23:59:25 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, SUNY/BUFFALO
Originator: arora@cygnus.cs.buffalo.edu


	Is the plaintive refrain of the oboe repeated often in the recent
movie ENCHANTED APRIL a known piece?  There were no musical credits in
the film; it's possible the piece was written for the movie...

-- 
===============================================================================
Kulbir S. Arora,  State Univ. of New York at Buffalo, Dept. of Computer Science
INTERNET: arora@cs.buffalo.edu         BITNET: arora%cs.buffalo.edu@ubvm.bitnet
UUCP: ...!{rutgers,uunet}!cs.buffalo.edu!arora
From: al@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Haus Der Luge)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Wedding Music
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 92 09:36:49 CST
Organization: system 6626 BBS, Winnipeg MB

 
IDEAL WEDDING ACCOMPIANENT:
 
Varese - Ionisation
Anton Webern - 5 Satze Op.5
Witold Lutoslawski - String Quartet (1964)
John Cage - 4'33"
 
Of course, this is assuming that:
(a) there happens to be a handy orchestra pit in the church
(b) you happen to have a handy string orchestra and some 30 odd 
percussionists in that pit
(c) you are slightly demented
 
HausDerLuge


;--- (Haus Der Luge) a user of sys6626, running waffle 1.64
;E-mail: al@sys6626.bison.mb.ca
;system 6626: 63 point west drive, winnipeg manitoba canada R3T 5G8
From: jseboldt@pnet51.orb.mn.org (John Seboldt)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Joining the dots ...
Date: 7 Sep 92 16:05:02 GMT
Organization: People-Net [pnet51], Minneapolis, MN.

chrisr@hpcvra.cv.hp.com (Chris Robson) writes:
>Hi,
>	I am looking for a book on the development of musical notation. I
>guess there must be 000s of them out there, so I will give my 'wish list'.
>If anyone knows of a book that comes close, then I would be really grateful
>to hear of it.
>

It's a bit scholarly and dry, no color plates and stops at 1600, but what the
heck, try 

     The Notation of Polyphonic Music, 900-1600, by Willi Apel
     Cambridge, MA:  The Medieval Academy of America, 1953 (fifth edn).

Did an early music notation course with Albert Luper at University of Iowa, a
one-on-one tutorial.  The classic musicologist -- fine man, fine scholar,
rigorous discipline and perfection, knows his stuff!

: John Seboldt...Minneapolis, MN...As a ham, K0JD...as a human,       :
: right-brained yet right-handed...as a musician, techie yet creative :
:   UUCP: {crash, tcnet, petrus, quest}!orbit!pnet51!jseboldt         :
:   ARPA: crash!orbit!pnet51!jseboldt@nosc.mil                        :
:   INET: jseboldt@pnet51.orb.mn.org                                  :
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical