HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tuff@ellis.uchicago.edu (Geoff Tuffli)
Subject: Re: Prejudice vs racism
Reply-To: tuff@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 02:54:25 GMT

In article <1992Sep28.164400.13684@cs.ucla.edu> pierce@lanai.cs.ucla.edu (Brad Pierce) writes:
>In article <1992Sep28.020855.8239@ncsu.edu> jumper@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (Michael Lanham) writes:
>
>>Is there a difference between prejudice and racism? 
>
>Prejudice is simply "an adverse opinion or leaning formed without just
>grounds or before sufficient knowledge". It is an age-old and natural
>heuristic that guides and misguides all finite creatures (such as human
>beings).
>
>Racism, however, is a relatively recent European invention.  Akin to
>astrology or phrenology, racism is the pseudoscience of dividing the
>human species into subspecies called "races", supposedly decisively
>different biologically. Delusions that "race" determines psychocultural
>traits and capacities, that some "race" is inherently superior to some
>other "race", that some "race" has the right to dominate other "races",
>as well as the political systems based on such delusions, are a natural
>chain of symptoms that will only find permanent relief in the uprooting
>of the underlying cause, namely a belief in racism.
>
>-- Brad Pierce
>

*Cough, COUGH*
 
"Racism, however, is a relatively recent European invention"? I'm sorry to
break this to you, but as much as it might make a lot of people feel better
to turn the tables on what have been, admittedly, in many cases extremely
unfair circumstances, that fails to change certain realities.

Racism is _not_ the sole province of White Europe, it neither is now nor was
it created by them in the past. Racism is a _human_ invention, it can be
seen in historical instances as widespread as Japan, America, China, India,
South Africa, Europe, Russia, etc., ad nauseum. Yes, in the United States
there has certainly been more racism in the direction of white -> black, and
white -> oriental, white -> native american, and white -> hispanic than in
the opposite direction, - but that does _not_ make it a "white" thing.
 
In many ways, I think Dr.Martin Luther King might be ashamed today of what
has turned into a game of power-struggles as opposed to the ethical fight
against discrimination - not whites, that he originally envisaged it to be.
Yes, the various minority groups residing in the United States and Europe
today _have_ been given the short end of the stick, in many cases for hundreds
of years. However, this current attitude of "blame it all on the whites" is
nothing more than doing exactly the same thing one is accusing one's oppressors
of doing.
 
	Geoff Tuffli



Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: jumper@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (Michael Lanham)
Subject: Re: Pessimism
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 20:40:26 GMT

cwm54@cas.org () writes:
>	  In short if everyone in this country has a college education
>      then college grads will be cleaning toilets and sweeping streets,
>      and guess who that will be. Until Americans admit that because of
>      our economic system(I make no judgements on the right or wrong of
>      it),"the poor will always be with us" and because of racism the poor
>      will always be disproportinately black; and poverty breeds violence.
>      I don't see americans having the will or ability to understand these
>      cause and effect relationships.If everyone on the welfare roles was
>      "trained", there would be no work for them.( Why can't we be honest?)

The time is 1830-1850:  Replace the word black above with either of two
groups: Irish or Chinese.  What was said above about modern blacks was said
then about shiftless Irish, men who left their wives(& they were Catholic),
families falling apart etc.  

It might add to the discussion to include reasons stretching past simple
racism for groups' ills in this country.

>	  At any rate we must inspire our young to achieve while balancing
>      that inspiration with reality. If one fights racism one's career is
>      slowed(I know first hand), but if one doesn't fight it, one's dignity
>      is gone. If one turns on his own one's climb up the ladder is meteoric.

>	  Is it any wonder we're an angry and confused race?

Human race that is.  It will probably be a riddle as long as we demand all
that we want without concern for the future.  Americans especially have
willingly perpetuated myths and voted in politicians who speak to us of
dreams.  We have all participated in the dream...we seek jobs, seek better
lives than what we now have, or maybe what our parents had.  Maybe we even
hope for a better life for our kids.  But for fifty years we have stolen from
the future to pay for the present--the thefts include stealing people's
dignity, their money, and many other things.   When will it end?  We still
demand 'entitlments' from the government, we demand 'our share' of federal
money, we demand cheap gasoline, inexpensive clothes, a lot of demands for 'my
share'.  Maybe it will end when we are all broke now and tomorrow is to. :-(

He who will not reason, is a bigot; he who cannot is a fool;
and he who dares not is a slave.      --- Sir William Drummond

Michael Lanham       mjlanham@eos.ncsu.edu   &  jumper@catt.ncsu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: HF.GTD@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gabrielle Daniels)
Subject: Re: Jamaican Prime Minister Forecasts End to Nation's IMF Program
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 23:49:31 GMT

In article <Bv6rpH.86r@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>,
kautaj@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (kauta) writes back to what I wrote:
>
>>>I remember Manley saying in the early '80s how he and the country
>>>had been "IMF-ed."
.
>Jerry Rawlings of Ghana made similar noises. Now he is regarded as a role
>model by the IMF..
>
>>came true in Manley's case.  Look to the Sandinistas to similarly
>>refashion themselves in the next Nicaraguan election.
>
>Should that happen, Gen. Augusto Sandino would turn in his grave.....
.
.
Whenever Noam Chomsky comes to the Bay Area, his speeches are SRO.
General Sandino is already spinning, in my view.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: jumper@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (Michael Lanham)
Subject: Re: National flag for blacks
Organization: North Carolina State University
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 16:45:24 GMT

ronaldd@cbnewse.cb.att.com (ronald.h.davis) writes:

>In article <1992Oct6.123401.14284@cas.org> cwm54@cas.org () writes:
>>
>>       I disagree with our black leaders who argue with whites that we
>>    are AS patriotic as they. How could we be?
>>
>easily.  "we" [assuming that you refer to african-americans] have
>contributed every bit as much to this nation over it's history as
>ANY other group [including white americans].  the problem is that
>"history" has not recorded these contributions for the most part.
>i figure the real measure of patriotism is what has the individual
>(or in this case, group) given to this nation.  by that measure,
>african americans are as patriotic as anyone.

>some my equate patriotism with flag wavers but i consider many of
>them to be intolerant assholes who wouldn't know a democracy [or,
>for that matter, "family values"] if it hit them in the face.
>after all, the ku klux klan waves the american flag...

bravo...the only other way I could think of answering the above questions is:
blacks are more patriotic than whites---contribution during every war and no
credit for most of them qualifies in my book as selfless-service (ie
patriotism). Teddy Roosevelt got his rear-end saved by the 10th Black
Regiment on San Juan hill.  And the press gave the credit to the Rough Riders,
even worse is he took credit for the succcess!  General 'Black Jack' Pershing
commanded the 11th(?) black regiment--hence his nickname.

He who will not reason, is a bigot; he who cannot is a fool;
and he who dares not is a slave.      --- Sir William Drummond

Michael Lanham       mjlanham@eos.ncsu.edu   &  jumper@catt.ncsu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: ronaldd@cbnewse.cb.att.com (ronald.h.davis)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: National flag for blacks
Summary: i don't think black people need a "national flag"
Date: 6 Oct 92 16:02:27 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Oct6.123401.14284@cas.org> cwm54@cas.org () writes:
>
>       I disagree with our black leaders who argue with whites that we
>    are AS patriotic as they. How could we be?
>
easily.  "we" [assuming that you refer to african-americans] have
contributed every bit as much to this nation over it's history as
ANY other group [including white americans].  the problem is that
"history" has not recorded these contributions for the most part.
i figure the real measure of patriotism is what has the individual
(or in this case, group) given to this nation.  by that measure,
african americans are as patriotic as anyone.

some my equate patriotism with flag wavers but i consider many of
them to be intolerant assholes who wouldn't know a democracy [or,
for that matter, "family values"] if it hit them in the face.
after all, the ku klux klan waves the american flag...

-- 
  __  ______  __  / __/ |       at&t bell laboratories, naperville il, usa
_/ (_(_) / (_(_/_/_(_/  .       ronald@iexist.att.com / att!iexist!ronald
"if you ain't the lead dog, the scenery never changes" -- edmund wilson
From: ph111-bx@violet.berkeley.edu (;;;;7202)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: peculiar language
Date: 6 Oct 1992 20:42:04 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: violet.berkeley.edu

I'm trying not to flame you, but get a clue.  Words can have more than
one meaning.  From Webster's 9th:

black n  2 : the achromatic color of least lightness characteristically
perceived to belong to objects that neither reflect nor transmit light
[...]
4 a : a person belonging to a dark-skinned race or one stemming in part
from such a race; esp : NEGRO  b : AFRO-AMERICAN

now compare to

orange n  1 a : a globose berry with a reddish yellow rind and a sweet
edible pulp
[...]
3 : any of a group of colors that lie midway between red and yellow in hue
and are of medium lightness and moderate to high saturation
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: dc4l+@andrew.cmu.edu (Dean Calloway)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Boycott "Rhythm & Blues"
Date: 2 Oct 92 06:48:30 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.Qen64yq00WBKM2Xmlu
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Excerpts from netnews.soc.culture.african.american: 1-Oct-92 Re: Boycott
"Rhythm & Blues" by Anthony Maillard@Mdd.com 
> I saw the first episode of R & B. On the comedic side, I thought it was
> very entertaining. The 'LOVE MAN' and the 'JAMAICAN KID' are great
> characters with high potential for Afro-American education regarding
> stereotypes and Caribbean Cultural mis-understandings.
> As far as the 'white' DJ situation: I look at it as excellent. I hope lots
> of Euro-Americans look at this show. Maybe, just maybe, it will give them a
> view of what the other side is thinking or feeling.
> The scenes where 'he' was shunned, where the other DJ's refused to shake
> his hand - Great. Now they will know how 'it' feels..........
>  
> Be careful what you boycott. Be careful when you boycott. Would you prefer

I actually watched the show out of curiousity last night.  Politics
aside, I thought it was absolutely stupid.  The acting is lacking, the
comedy is sophomoric.  The show has little holding it together.

Boycotting won't be necessary.   The show won't last 10 episodes.


DCAL
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: jumper@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (Michael Lanham)
Subject: Re: A Matter of a Will
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 22:02:01 GMT

<FKR@psuvm.psu.edu>  Fred Rozenblad writes:
 
>After reading the paper this morning, along w/ watching the news coverage
>on this topic, I was very displeased to see most of Alex Haley's artifacts
>auctioned off to pay for debts to the State of Tennessee (I believe).  Most
>of his memoires included conservations w/ Malcolm X, his works on Roots, and
>other "priceless" items.

>I'm not sure how much bad debt he may have had, but someone would think he
>would have a will to stop the "vultures" at the auction over his estate.
>I know that it is too late to do anything about that now, but I can't under-
>stand why someone (friend, family, enemy, or whatever) would have to told
>him to have a will. At least his artifacts would remain w/ whoever he deemed
>important. If I remember, he had 1.5M in debt. It appears, after the auction,
>only $100K was raised. Surely his stuff was more than the money "made" on this
>auction.

According to news reports I have read, his son is the executeer of his estate
and his will. He actually did have a will, but the estate decided to pay its
debts before apportioning goods amongst surviving family members.


He who will not reason, is a bigot; he who cannot is a fool;
and he who dares not is a slave.      --- Sir William Drummond

Michael Lanham       mjlanham@eos.ncsu.edu   &  jumper@catt.ncsu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: barnhart@gagme.chi.il.us (Mr Aaron Barnhart)
Subject: Re: Atlanta Project
Originator: barnhart@gagme
Organization: Evanston, Illinois
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 01:37:39 GMT

This is in reply to st0o+@andrew.cmu.edu (Steven Timm), who wrote:
:This morning on NPR there was a feature report on the Atlanta Project,
:which former pres. Jimmy Carter has devoted a lot of time to see going.
:Evidently most of the operations funds are geared towards organizing 
:people for response to the city's needs in responding to poverty and crime.
:But there seems to be a backlash against the project recently by 
:some civil rights leaders.  Can anyone in Atlanta give us details?
:
:Steve Timm

I have before me the January 20, 1992 issue of The Wall Street
Journal, or more accurately, this story that appeared on page
A14:

Carter's 'Atlanta Project' Is Reviving a Dream
To Curb Rampant Poverty in King's Hometown

[...] Already the former president has met with more than 1,500
civic, religious and business leaders, urging them to band together
to cure Atlanta's ills.  With a planned budget of about $4 million a
year, Mr. Carter and his aides plan first to sit down with residents
in 20 of the city's poorest neighborhoods, identify their most
pressing needs, then marshal the money and people needed to answer
those needs.  The first of what he hopes will be tens of thousands
of volunteers are supposed to hit the streets this spring.

"The greatest problem in the nation is that rich, powerful and
secure people like us don't help poor people," he says.  "Somewhere
in God's world there needs to be one major urban community that can
successfully address these problems."

[...] Mr. Carter is also calling in his political chits.  He has
talked to President Bush about the plan.  He will work with Jack
Kemp, sec'y of HUD, to simplify applications for federal aid.

A six-person secretariat to oversee the Atlanta Project, along with
an 18-member advisory board, were selected last November.  The
secretariat will try to match community needs with existing
programs.  Any gaps will be filled with voluntteers.

[...] For isntance, he wants successful mothers to coach pregnant
teens on taking care of babies and even to drive them to doctor
appointments.  He is asking churches to adopt public housing projects
-- to get to know residents, clean yards, and repair boarded-up
units.  There are few Little League teams at the projects; he wants
sponsors to buy uniforms.  School health clinics are rarely open; 
he hopes nurses will volunteer to keep them open.
From: rjb3@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (robert.j.brown)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Boycott "Rhythm & Blues"(Frank's Place Syndic)
Summary: no critical mass ?
Date: 29 Sep 92 21:01:47 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbnewsk.1992Sep29.210147.18160
Organization: AT&T

> >      I've seen a couple of preview clips of "Rhythm and Blues". I have to  
> > agree. This show should be ignored. The money would have been better spent  
> > resurrecting "Frank's Place", which (for those unfamiliar with it) was  
> > about a successful New Orleans restaurant owned and managed by a black  
> > man.
> > 
> > Arthur Johnson
> > johnson@offroad.chem.wisc.edu 
> 
> 
> "Frank's Place" was a good show...an excellent show, in fact. 
> Syndication seems to have all but ignored it, though. I wonder why...
> G.
> 
> --
> Gregory Alan Gross      Welcome to life, where no good deed goes unpunished.

Not likely for the reason you're probably, oh so subtlely, alluding to..

To go into syndication, a weekly series needs a critical mass of about
three or four seasons (about 100 episodes)
worth of shows so that the daily showing (which is the norm)
of the program will not result in interminable repeats.

If I remember correctly, Frank's Place only cut it for about
2 seasons or three max.  Please correct me if I'm missing it.

Bobby - akgua!rjb
From: price@convex.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory Neil Price)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Death Penalty, for or against?
Date: 6 Oct 1992 21:23:29 GMT
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.30

The sentiments expressed by hans@iesd.auc.dk in regard to the death
penalty appear sentimental, and besides the point. The fact that the
death penalty disproportionately, and unjustly affects Black Americans
is not a sufficient reason to reconsider, or abolish it. From a
contractarian viewpoint, allowing the state to execute criminals
can be rationalized, regardless of disparities in its application
across race, gender, and class. In a state of nature, the physically
strong can dominate the physically weak. Men in general, can in
a state of nature, distribute hammurabian justice without sanction.
Clearly, if a civil contract is to be drawn up, no strong man would
surrender his right to mete out death as justice in order to join  
civil society,  unless  of   course  the   contrived   state     can
do it by proxy. It a perfect compromise between the strong and
the weak. Both get to pursue their enlightened self-interest free
from the coercion, theft and murder that would prevail in the
state of nature.


What's the point? A good civil society must have a death penalty.
In fact, one could argue that a (civil) society with a death penalty
is a good one. Considerations of racial disparities in death sentences
are  purely sentimental, nor do they completely reveal   how fair
and just a society is--- A Fair and Just Society must have a Death
Penaly. (Otherwise how many strongmen would join, or continue  to
live in it?) 



G. N. Price 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american,soc.culture.african
From: cwm54@cas.org ()
Subject: Re: Readership for the s.c.a. groups
Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service, Columbus, Ohio
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 17:14:27 GMT

In article <1992Oct5.171147.11201@cas.org> cwm54@cas.org () writes:
>In article <1992Oct4.084438.1773@gagme.chi.il.us> barnhart@gagme.chi.il.us (Mr Aaron Barnhart) writes:
>>
>>Thought readers might want to know that in the latest attempt
>>at a scientific survey of Usenet, soc.culture.african is the
>>399th most widely read newsgroup, averaging 20,000 readers and
>>1,273 postings per month, while soc.culture.african.american
>>is the 499th most widely reader newsgroup, averaging 17,000
>>pairs of eyeballs and 936 gems of wisdom a month (that's gross;
>>to determine net, subtract WCF and Hu postings).
>>
>>The full report can be found in news.lists.
>>
>>Aaron
>>
>
>
>    Thanks for the info but you should subtract MF from that net also.


     I meant gross.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american,soc.culture.african
From: cwm54@cas.org ()
Subject: Re: Readership for the s.c.a. groups
Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service, Columbus, Ohio
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 17:11:47 GMT

In article <1992Oct4.084438.1773@gagme.chi.il.us> barnhart@gagme.chi.il.us (Mr Aaron Barnhart) writes:
>
>Thought readers might want to know that in the latest attempt
>at a scientific survey of Usenet, soc.culture.african is the
>399th most widely read newsgroup, averaging 20,000 readers and
>1,273 postings per month, while soc.culture.african.american
>is the 499th most widely reader newsgroup, averaging 17,000
>pairs of eyeballs and 936 gems of wisdom a month (that's gross;
>to determine net, subtract WCF and Hu postings).
>
>The full report can be found in news.lists.
>
>Aaron
>


    Thanks for the info but you should subtract MF from that net also.
From: jthomp@mainz-emh2.army.mil (JEFFREY THOMPSON)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Semantics {understanding the usage NIGGER by blacks}
Date: 1 Oct 1992 03:15:51 -0500
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu




You said it brother. I feel that the word "nigger used in a particular
context by a particular individual holds thhe meaning intended. Like


"Michael Jackson is one bad nigger. Wow! Give me five bro!!". Or
if you say something like, "Nigger you ain't s...!", you get an immediate
impression of what is meant here; and in this case you'd better put up
your dukes.

Jeff
From: jumper@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (Michael Lanham)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Tardiness in response <was Re: Death Penalty, for or against?>
Date: 2 Oct 92 01:37:23 GMT
Organization: North Carolina State University

cmort@NCoast.ORG (Christopher Morton) writes:
>The criminal justice system works just as the army does.  It reacts tardily 
>and excessively (indeed blindly) to whatever problems are eventually perceived.
Though in many instances valid cases can be made against the army for slow
reaction, I do not believe that is representative.  I get treated better by
the Army than by some firms I have worked for.  I am with people who generally
want to be there, who know why they are there, and if they want out bad enough
they can be gone in a few short days.  The Army may be slower than public
opinion but I would hope so---public opinion is very fickle and subject to
irrationallity at times.  

The Army _is_ and has been  faster than police forces, corporations, and other
government "businesses" when actually integrating women, hispanics, filipinos,
and afr-ams.  It is probably due to the amount of press the Army receives
about it's lack or progress on these issues.  BUt at least we make a more
honest attempt at equality than _a lot_ of the civilian world.

BTW, this is not a flame against the original post, just my experiences and
opinon. 
He who will not reason, is a bigot; he who cannot is a fool;
and he who dares not is a slave.      --- Sir William Drummond

Michael Lanham       mjlanham@eos.ncsu.edu   &  jumper@catt.ncsu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: HF.GTD@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gabrielle Daniels)
Subject: Correct conjugation
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 16:09:21 GMT

Some idiot, Lanham, I believe, thinks I am a man.  Well, since I
can't raise up my dress on line, you're just going to have to
realize that I am a woman. GabriELLE. Didn't you ever conjugate
French in school?
.
I find it amazing that there are so many white guys ganging up on me
on this board.  I must be hitting a really raw nerve.