From: CLF@ECLX.PSU.EDU (Christopher L Frame)
Subject: Re: Powered Body Armor
Organization: Penn State Engineering Computer Lab
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 21:05:46 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.24

In <83773@ut-emx.uucp> wolfone@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu writes:

> In article <Uf0bywu00iV4029adc@andrew.cmu.edu> js43+@andrew.cmu.edu (James William Stepanek) writes:
> ]There was an article in the latest Discover magazine on the subject of
> ]powered suits for various uses. They mentioned that the armed forces
> 
> What issue number? I haven't found any new issues and the last one focused 
> mainly on disease transmission between continents. Just in time for Columbus
> Day.


	YES, please give more information on the issue number on this net.


> ]have been trying at this for ~30 yrs. They also say that there is still
> ]interest in the field. There have been discussions of this subject in
> ].sci.military, but they tend to throw out anything remotely off what
> ]they consider pure military science. I therefore think this could be a
> ]good place for a discussion of the concepts , their
> ]implementation,tactics and doctrine surrounding said devices. 
> 
> Try rec.arts.anime too :)
> 
> Seriously, I think this a good thing to discuss since developments in things
> like exoskeletons and life support and portable heavy weapons makes PA more
> and more likely. I think it's still a decade or so off, but why wait to 
> discuss tactics/strategy? :)


	I don't feel it is a decade or so off.  Perhaps a utilitarian model
could be designed and produced in limited quantities now.  Although life 
support systems would probably overburden the system, I agree with the need
for power assisted armored suits (Combat Armor) to enhance the load carrying
capability of soldiers.  Arm a soldier in Combat Armor with a 20 or 30mm
cannon and you've got a VERY mobile can opener.
 

> ]    I personally think the powere armor with strength augmentation would
> ]have a few limitations in the present day but is not unworkable( then
> ]again so does dod considering they are still researching it) and would
> ]be best used in special forces type units. This would be justified on
> ]the basis that these suits would cost a pretty penny, but then again so
> ]does training for a SEAL/SAS/SF ect and the possibility of magnifying
> ]the effectiveness on such soldiers could have great effect. Say you want
> 
> I think you are right on this aspect. I think that PArmor will remain expensive
> as the technology improves, though. It may get cheap enough that you can outfit
> batallions of marines or ranger type troops with them but it will be awhile
> before regular infantry are going to be assigned these. At least I hope so;
> else it would ruin a story I'm making up for alt.cyberpunk.chatsubo. :)
> 
> ]Noriega( old example , but what the hell), you drop a few of these into
> ]Panama City into where he can be best localized, and then proceed to
> ]scare people (considering strength augmentation scare should be a mild
> ]word) into revealing his location. Also these would be great for hostage
> ]rescue. Both the rescuers would be safe (within reason) and they could
> ]possible interpose themselves as shield for the hostages. Also deep
> 
> I don't know about this. Unless you are talking about *light* powered armor,
> those suits may be too clunky to sneak in on terrorists for hostage rescue.
> You would still need agile infiltrators, maybe using suits that are built for
> suppressing IR and vislight but little armor/strength to successfully sneak
> up on people. The stealth models would probably be more like tight-fitting 
> space suits than high-tech knight's garb (see Madox-01, ask about it in raa.)

	The problem with the idea of tight-fitting suits is the power assist
requirement.  Our technology is limited for machines/engines/mechanisms that
can produce enough power to enhance human capabilites AND fit in a "bodysuit"
I'm afraid that comic book character suits are a bit much for our present
technology and any reasonable costs.

	Madox-01 type suits, which I comsider Combat Armor are quite feasible.

> The more heavily armored suits could be in position to move in fast to secure 
> the area when the infiltrators free the hostages, though.
> 
> ]strike penetration of fixed strategic assets would be greatly
> ]facilitated by these devices. City fighting would also bee a good use,
> ]considering that they would act as very small light tanks, and be
> ](hopefully) proof from sniper fire.
> 
> If you could drop them from orbit (a la _Starship Troopers_) I'd see the
> utility in strategic drops. 

	Ouch.  This is a tough one.  Temperatures get pretty high.  Let's
concentrate on stopping small arms ammunition and mines first.

> Maybe via stealth transport, etc. I wouldn't 
> depend on them sneaking behind enemy lines, though. Until a fusion reactor
> becomes small enough for PArmor, these things won't be able to have much range.
> 
> Just adding things you haven't mentioned to enhance my thoughts.
> 
> On city fighting: these things would be death to tanks in the streets. The
> equivalent of a light tank moving with most of the mobility of PBIs would
> make them deadly to tanks restricted in movement by rubble, etc. Snipers
> would probably not have the weapons to deal with these.. unless they were
> using PArmor too! Another strike against tanks would be that their anti-
> personnel weapons would be useless against PArmor, forcing them to waste
> main gun ammo on overkilling them w/anti-tank rounds. Of course, tanks might
> start carrying medium-caliber weapons to deal w/PArmored infantry, but I have
> no idea on this.
> 
> 
	I agree that standard armor vehicles would need to use their larger
caliber weapons to eliminate Combat Armor threats, but don't overlook infantry
using RPG's, etc (as stated in another posting).

	
> -- 
> Patrick Chester            |----------------------------------------------------
> wolfone@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu |"The earth is too fragile a basket in which to keep
> Politically Incorrect      |  all your eggs." Robert A. Heinlein
> Future Lunar Colonist      |"The meek shall inherit the Earth. The rest of us
> #^%$!! Militarist          |  are going to the stars." Anonymous
> (Of the Sun Tzu mentality) |----------------------------------------------------



Christopher SS Frame
General Armaments