Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: bburgar@cix.compulink.co.uk (Bill Burgar)
Subject: Different Karate Fists
Reply-To: bburgar@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 07:10:25 +0000



Tommy Kelly replies: (sorry I don't remember the name of the original 
poster)
>>The main reason for the 3/4 twist is to be able to hit pressure
points on
>>the body that are not accessable when you full twist punch (palm
facing the
>>floor). If you want to knwo the correct angle, just look at the
angle of
>>the rib cage and see how a 3/4 twisted fist would fit between them.
>
>Ah, now I understand what you mean by 3/4 twist.


I don't - what do you mean? I can't twist my fist 3/4. Unless you
mean
3/4 of 180 degrees?


>Still the answer is no, thats not what I meant.
>
>However, now that you mention it, I have seen the "post-impact" bend 
that
>you mentioned.  It is done by our high grades when doing a gedan
barai
>in kata.
>
>WOuld that be related dya think?
>
>tommy


What is this "post-impact" bend? Which way is the wrist bent etc?




Ted A. Camus writes:
>  Actually, I was proposing that using this style fist allows one to
>  punch with equal force but less tension at the moment of contact.
>  In fact, since there is less 'unnecessary tension' (the index
finger),
>  one might be able to punch even stronger without buckling the
wrist.
>  At least that's the feeling I get, although I have no makiwara to
test
>  it on.


It's certainly true that this fist allows for less tension. Extensive
testing on my makiwara has proved to me that it has several
advantages
over the standard fist. However, it does take some time (and
bruising)
to get it right and even then there are some disadvantages for
example
the thumb is in a more risky position and is prone to getting
knocked.


Over the weekend I tried the Shotokai style fist on the makiwara
after
checking through the books for information about how to use it. As
far as I can tell with this short period of experimentation, it was
very painful to use! So I guess I must be doing it wrong. I am still
interested in experimenting further, so any Shotokai people out there
please post a more detailed description of the fist.


>  I asked the kosho-ryu kempo instructor at our school about it, and 
he
>  suggested that folding the index finger over allowed those people
who
>  could only form 'Shotokai fists' to be able to get those middle
>  knuckles back behind the first ones.  I never had any problems
with
>  forming a flat fist, so I can't really tell how much this trick
helps --
>
>  -- Ted --


He may be right in some cases. However, that's not what the fist is
for. Personally I have never had any problem making a good seiken (at
less than a right angle) and in my case (I can't speak for others)
the
finger being outside or inside makes no difference to the angle of
the
fist.


Be careful how far you believe people who tell you that a technique
was
invented simply for those who couldn't do another technique properly.
Take for example mikuzuki geri (sp?). Someone once told me that this
was
a version of mawashi geri invented by someone who couldn't perform
mawashi geri. The fact that mikuzuki geri is an older technique than
the full round house kick makes it an unlikly explanation. Likewise,
the fact that the index finger over fist is older that the now
standard
fist makes your instructor's explanation unlikely.


As to the mikuzuki geri, I think there is a spectrum of kicks that go
from a straight maegeri right round to a full mawashi geri, mikuzuki
geri coming about halfway between the two (The one you use to kick
your opponents elbow (-; ).




Bill Burgar.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts