HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: aeporro@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov (Bob Porro)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 45 ACP, 9mm
Date: 19 Nov 92 15:10:35 GMT
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center

In article <1eavbrINNf9n@roche.csl.sri.com>, dstine@cisco.com (David Stine) writes...
#In article <m5mauB1w164w@upchrch.UUCP> upchrch!joel@peora.sdc.ccur.com (Joel Upchurch  ) writes:
##
##While I have reservations about the 10mm as a pistol ammo, I suspect
##that it might find a place as carbine and submachine gun ammo. It
##should achieve quite respectable energies when fired out of a carbine
##barrel. I wouldn't be surprised, based on the results I've read with
##.357 Magnum fired out of a carbine, if the energies for the 155 grain
##bullet weren't up in the 30-30 range. There would be obvious advantages
##to getting assault rifle like performance out of a submachine gun.
##
# 
#ya, know, this sets me to thinking: the 10 would seem (at first blush) to be
#about the right size for a gas-operated semi carbine, say something like an
#updated M1 Carbine. A full-house 10 or (ha!) a +P 10 tends to eat handguns up,
#but where you could devote some more beef to the receiver and a gas machanism,
#I would think that it might be a decent round for a brush-busting deer
#carbine.
# 
#any other thoughts? am I up too late?
# 

I read that H & K is producing a 10 mm Auto Carbine based on their MP5 design.  
I doubt if any semi-auto versions will be imported to the U.S. for the general 
public due to the ban on importation of the military look-a-like semi autos.

******************************************************************************
| Bob Porro                    || (The opinions expressed here are not       |
| aeporro@venus.lerc.nasa.gov  ||  necessarily those of the management ?\*!) |
|                              ||                                            |
******************************************************************************
From: apskato@vax1.mankato.msus.edu
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: S&W 5906
Date: 17 Nov 92 13:14:51 GMT
Organization: Mankato State University

In article <kf1yKHG00WBLE4PJNg@andrew.cmu.edu>, se08+@andrew.cmu.edu (Seth Adam Eliot) writes:
# roy@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu writes >
# 
# # I want to get some ideas from some people on the S&W 5906 good, bad, 
# # or indifferent.  I already own a Taurus 92, and would like to stay in the
# # 9mm family for my second gun, and I have looked at the 5906.  Anyone
# that owns
# # one (or used to own one) what are your opinion?
# 
# ...and on a related note: what the heck is the differemce between the
# 5906 and the new 915, besides $110 ?
# 
# -Seth
# 
# 

Ug. There was just an article on it in one of the law enforcement mags I get. 
I know that they only come with one clip and I believe that they only have the
safety on the right side.  I think it uses fixed sights, but I don't recall. 
It's essentially the economy version of the 5906.
 

Eric Huber
Mankato State University
Law Enforcement Program
From: mcdphx!systemname!gcall@enuucp.eas.asu.edu (Glen Call)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .45 caliber handguns
Date: 22 Nov 92 20:20:30 GMT
Organization: Motorola Computer Group Marketing


My advice is, buy the Gold Cup.  I picked up a stainless one for $730 a couple
of years ago, and could probably get one even cheaper now.  The fit and finish
is perfect, and the accuracy much better than the Springfield I once owned.  One
other reason is that it is much harder to get your money back out of a
customized weapon.

My $.02 worth.
Glen
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Glen Call                          Technical Marketing Systems Engineer
Motorola Computer Systems, Inc.    gcall@phx.mcd.mot.com or mcdapps!gcall
M/S DW212                          phone: (602) 438-3408
2900 S. Diablo Way                 pager: 1-602-244-3252 Pager#2818 (digital)
Tempe, AZ 85282                    FAX:   (602) 438-3534
From: wa3wbu!john@uunet.UU.NET (John Gayman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: tac light and tapping holes
Date: 16 Nov 92 16:46:06 GMT
Article-I.D.: wa3wbu.1551
Organization: @ WA3WBU, Marysville, PA


In article <62039@mimsy.umd.edu>, purtilo@cs.umd.edu writes:
# Hi, two quickies on tech-talk, away from the rec.guns introspection thread...
# 
# 
# 1.  I'd like to put ghost-ring sights on a defensive shotgun.  Didn't get
# much response to my post on this before (more than a month ago), but found
# some sights in Brownells that look like they could work.  But these would
# entail drilling the receiver to mount.  I tentatively plan on getting a
# parkerized 870, chambered for 3" shells, mount a 20" cylinder; the sights
# would be tritium, and I'd probably go for a mag extension, side saddle and
# maybe a small tac-light, with pressure switch.  Straight synthetic stock,
# no pistol grip.  So ... the question is, can you good folks guide me through
# the wonders of getting the mount on the receiver?  (Aside:  Some of you had


   Would these happen to be the Sage International sights offered by 
Brownells ?  I ordered a pair of these a year ago for my Mossberg 590
and was very pleased with the robust construction of the sights. One
disappointing feature was the Tritium insert on the front sight. It is 
totally worthless on the sights I have. Out on the front of my 20"
barrel it is much too dim to be useful. If you are in total darkness for
a while and can just make it out. I didn't really care about that feature
when I bought them so I am still happy with the sights. As for nice
ghost rings, they work very nice.  I took the gun to a local gunsmith
and he only charged $30 to do an expert installation. That front ring
apparently requires you to heat it and expand it before putting it on.
After I got it back from the gunsmith, I took a file and removed the 
sharp edges from the front sight guards. They may have since changed the 
construction slightly so your results may differ. 

					John

-- 
John Gayman, WA3WBU 
UUCP: uunet!wa3wbu!john
Packet: WA3WBU @ WB3EAH 

	[MODERATOR:  And Jim replies right away: "Those are indeed one
	 of the two or three brands that I am considering from Brownells.
	 Glad to hear that they are worth while, and also about the extra
	 details concerning installation.  The tritium report is a little
	 disappointing, but then again, I feel a shotgun, unlike a pistol
	 as I reported before, is an appropriate weapon to consider having
	 a flashlight mounted on."]
From: robert_walton@NeXT.COM (Robert Walton)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Sotgun Question...
Date: 24 Nov 92 00:02:50 GMT


Please tell me I didn't do something stupid.

I saw a Beretta BL-3 O/U shotgun at the gun show yesterday.  While most  
credible O/Us are $1000+, and modern Berettas much more than that, this  
older, slightly beat-up Beretta was priced at $450 on consignment!   
Actually, I got him down to $403, *including* tax and registration, before  
letting go of my cash, which made the purchase price a mere $360...which  
worries the hell out of me now that the blood lust of making the find is  
wearing off...

The Gun --

Make/Model:  Beretta BL-3, 28" 12 G. O/U, F/M choke, vent rib.
Condition:  Good lock up, clean bores, appears fully functional.  Some  
dings on the rib, small nicks on the stock.  A little blueing is starting  
to go under the forward edge of the receiver.
Price Paid:  $360

Good decision?  Any information you have on BL-3s appreciated,

Robert
From: bbx!bbxrbk!russ@unmvax.cs.unm.edu (Russ Kepler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: LONG, rec.guns discussion
Date: 17 Nov 92 13:15:47 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization

In article <1992Nov16.204737.13635@afit.af.mil> lriggins@afit.af.mil (L. Maurice Riggins) writes:
#I must be doing something wrong... it takes me around 3 hours to do
#500 rounds of pistol ammo.  Maybe it's all those "attention" breaks 
#from the wife and kids trying to compete with the Dillon :-) (tough
#competition).  I can't even imagine the pain of a single-stage press.

Well, you are doing something wrong.  What you should be doing, and
clearly aren't, is to ask the wife or kids to load the bullets for you
the moment they enter the room.  That way you either double your
production speed or get the needed quiet to do 500 rounds/hour. ;-)
	[MODERATOR:  Your sweetie feeding bullets and filling primer
	 pickup tubes; your kids running the polisher; pleasant gab 
	 about that nice double-tap little Johnnie did on the B-27 
	 earlier, or June knocking down that last ram at 200yds with
	 her .45-70 hand cannon.  Ahhh ... family values!]

-- 
Russ Kepler, posting from home   bbxrbk!russ@bbx.basis.com
Will hack unix for food
From: ke4zv!gary@gatech.edu (Gary Coffman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Need info on small .25 semi-auto handgun
Date: 19 Nov 92 15:15:03 GMT
Organization: Gannett Technologies Group

In article <1992Nov14.182012.6445@henson.cc.wwu.edu> n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio) writes:
#
#If I had a desire for another pocket .22, I would get the Beretta 21.  It's
#gotta be better than the zinc Jennings that was my first gun.

Hey, my Jennings emptied the magazine on one trigger pull, or sometimes
just when jacking a round in the chamber. Slam fire city. That might
give it impressive firepower, but followup shots were slow since you
had to put in a new magazine. After tinkering with it, and letting a
gunsmith tinker with it, I retired it to the scrap metal bin at the
local recycler.

My cut on tiny guns is that the .25ACP is a horrible choice. The
ammo is outrageously expensive, and very ineffective. Most any
.22LR will be more effective. The tiny Mustang in .380 might be
an option, but I consider the minimum carry gun to be a Starlight
BKS in 9mm, or a Charter Bulldog in .44SPL.

On the tiny tip barrel Berrettas, I used to have a Minx. It was a fun
little gun, and reliable for the few boxes of shells I put through it.
But loud, that little thing was more painful to the ears than a full
house .44 Mag. A friend of mine got in a barfight with a Jetfire .25ACP, 
he shot a guy three times at point blank range. The guy proceeded to almost
beat him to death for irritating him. I don't think the guy even realized
he'd been shot until the paramedics arrived. My friend was in the hospital
longer than the guy he shot.

Gary
From: gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Defense/Combat Questions
Date: 21 Nov 92 13:19:12 GMT
Organization: U.S. Army Ballistic Research Lab, APG MD.


In article <1992Nov17.194417.5071@ultb.isc.rit.edu> mxb1517@ultb.isc.rit.edu (M.X. Blair) writes:
#In article <1992Nov17.023122.7776@michael.apple.com> ems@michael.apple.com (E. Michael Smith) writes:
##What we were shown was rather simple.  Hold the flashlight at
##arms length.  Most bad guys will shoot at the light, and be off
##by one arms length from your vitals...  You shoot at their muzzle flash...
#	That is, as long as the ambient light doesn't light up enough of you
#in the process.

I agree that it's important to identify the target but it's even more
urgent to survive the encounter.  I hear that it didn't take criminals
long to figure out how far away from the light to shoot to have a good
chance of hitting the light wielder.  Also, shooting at muzzle flash
may not be a good plan; if the opponent is not a total klutz he should
be either behind cover or on the move.  I don't think there is a good
way to conduct shootouts in pitch darkness unless you have a helicopter
light platform assisting..
From: boardman%cancer.unm.edu@lynx.unm.edu (Bob Boardman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Nat'l Match M1A Value?
Date: 20 Nov 92 22:33:10 GMT
Organization: UNM Cancer Center


    A person I know here at the university has an older Springfield
  National Match M1A, and was considering possibly selling it to me,
  except we don't really have a good handle on what would be a fair
  price for this particular gun.  Following is his description:

____________________________________________________________________________

  Why don't you ask some of your shooting buddies what they think one like I
have would be worth, maybe they would be familiar with the older Springfield
National Match M1A's like mine: 10,000 range serial number, bedded stock,
NM sights, wood upper hand guard, absolutely mint condition! etc. etc.
Let me know what they think.

____________________________________________________________________________

    Well, I know what the current production M1As are going for, except that
  there are several different "match grade" ones produced now, and I'm not
  really sure how they compare to the older "national match" model.  I'm also
  unsure of whether the relatively low serial number adds any collector
  value, since I was of the opinion that these rifles were valued more for
  how well they shoot in competition rather than being "collectable" per se.
    Since I'm looking for a shooter, I wouldn't want to buy this one if it
  has significant added "collector value" due to the low serial number.
    Since I consider all of you here on rec.guns as my "shooting buddies",
  I decided to post this to the net and I'll let him see the responses for
  himself (I know that he sometimes reads rec.guns, and I'll inform him that
  I have posted his question.

  -Bob
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
|**I _AM_ a member of a well-regulated militia - self-regulated, that is!!!!**|
| Bob Boardman,Albuquerque,New Mexico - NRA LIFE, NMSSA, Zia Rifle&Pistol Club|
|        internet:boardman@cancer.unm.edu    bitnet:BOARDMAN@UNMB             |
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
From: cain@silverblue.fac.cs.cmu.edu (Sebastian Nightingale Cain)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Glock21 handgun forsale
Date: 19 Nov 92 15:07:11 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

Hello all - I have a Glock 21 forsale - excellent condition, purchased in  
early august , about 200 rounds through it so far, .45ACP, holds 13  
rounds.  Asking $400. 

--


Sebastian Nightingale Cain        cain@silverblue.fac.cs.cmu.edu

As a matter of fact, that is a banana in my pocket.
From: moore@tc.fluke.COM (Matt Moore)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Defense/Combat Questions
Date: 17 Nov 92 18:32:56 GMT
Organization: John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, WA

In article <199211160438.AA22652@cherokee.advtech.uswest.com> kdlin@advtech.uswest.com (David Lin) writes:
#I noticed that I'd posted quite a few questions these days. Guess I'm
#still in a curious mood. So two more questions come:
#
#(1) I've read quite a few defense/combat articles wherein the good guys
#    mount flash lights on their weapons and go searching for the bad guys.
#  ......
#    So what am I missing here?

 You are not missing anything. Going searching for the bad guys is very,
very dangerous, and even more so at night, and there aren't many ways to
reduce the danger. The best way is not to search at all; barricade
yourself in a defensible location and let the bad guys do the searching
(or even better, just go away). If you must search, the safest way is to
use a trained dog for the risky maneuvers (the dog goes around blind
corners first, etc).

 If for some crazy reason, you decide to search for bad guys at night,
definitely use a flashlight, but only turn it on for 2 seconds or less,
then turn it off and change position. For instance, you might turn your
flashlight on to sweep a room before entering, then turn it off and move
into the room if it looked safe, or back away from the door if it didn't.
Do this fast enough and the bad guy *may* not have time to shoot you
before you move.

#(2) In one of Ayoob's articles, "Be Roll-out Ready for Home Defense", he
#    suggests a few things handy for home defense.
#    ......
#    My questions is how 
#    far can/do you go?

 Personally I would call the police; they already have that gear, and
better yet, the numbers and training to use it effectively.

 That said, a gun and a flashlight are basic. After that, a trained dog
would be the most desireable addition. The Kevlar vest, cellular phone,
night vision gear, and high-tech ears (in that order) all sound very
useful; it just depends on how much money you want to tie up in equipment
that you will probably never use for real (although you will practice with
it regularly). If you still have money to burn, consider a second set of
all of the above for your spouse or whomever. Searching as a team is much
safer than searching individually (although still highly unsafe in an
absolute sense).

						Matt Moore
						John Fluke Mfg. Co.
						standard disclaimers apply
From: hudson@ualr.edu
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Thoughts on SA M1A
Date: 20 Nov 92 13:46:04 GMT
Organization: University of Arkansas at Little Rock

In article <1eb0nhINNfcr@roche.csl.sri.com>, dstine@cisco.com (David Stine) writes:
# 
# I'm casting about for thoughts, opinions and experiences on the Springfield
# M1A line. In particular, I'm curious as to:
# 
# - the real reason one should get the TRW bolt
#
# please email to dsa@cisco.com -- i'll summarize and repost if people would
# like.
# 
# many thanks,
# dsa
# 
-- 

On the original M14s, as made between 1957 and 1964, the TRW machine line 
was considered the very best, as it used then "spaceage" techniques.  Also, 
the TRW rifles as a group shot more accurately and were more reliable, etc.
.. than the H&R or SA weapons.  If you are interested in the M14 and its 
design and problems (as in, why was such a fine rifle made for only 7 years
?) get a copy of Blake Stevens book.  I THINK the name of it is:

The M14 Rifle: From The Garand to the M21

That's pretty close, anyway.

BTW, I understand that the H&R line was the worst, actually closed down due 
to quality problems a few times, etc... .

Keith

___________________________________________________________

Keith Hudson		hudson%eivax@ualr.edu	(best)
   N5EEZ		mkhudson@ualr.edu	(secondary)
-----------------------------------------------------------
          University of Arkansas at Little Rock
      Department of Electronics and Instrumentation
___________________________________________________________
From: forda@gtephx.UUCP (Andrew Ford @ AGCS, Phoenix, Arizona)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Little-known membership benefits of the NRA
Date: 19 Nov 92 15:14:01 GMT
Organization: gte

In article <1992Nov13.172122.28167@ttinews.tti.com>, hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath) writes:
# In article <7dGH02Nl2aX.01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> efk00@cd.amdahl.com (Eddie Kieger) writes:
# }In article <9211090626.AA13672@relay2.UU.NET>, m0102@tnc.UUCP (FRANK NEY) writes:
# 
# }#I guarantee that the NRA sticker is used by the DC police as probable
# }#cause to search your vehicle for contraband firearms.
# }
# }Is this really legal (as in upheld in court)??
# }I knoiw they probably WOULD search you in any case, but could they make 
# }it hold up in a court as probable cause, or will they have to "invent"
# }something else (and we ALL know THAT doesn't happen, right??)??
# 
# As explained to me by an active LAPD officer, "probable cause" need only
# exist in the mind of the officer on the scene.  It will likely be based on
# something you know nothing about (e.g.:  He just got a radio bulletin
# about a bank robber driving a getaway car of your make, model and color)
# and he's not obliged to explain it to you.
# 
# I don't hang any unnecessary stickers or messages on my car.  With all the
# jurisdictions in L.A. (I drive through four just going to work) you never
# know who might be taking an interest or what their department policy is
# that day.
# 
I guess this is one of those things that depends on where you live.

Open carry and carrying a loaded weapon within reach in a vehicle (provided
that it is holstered or in a storage compartment) are both legal in Arizona,
so I have not legal problems (so far) with my NRA sticker and "I'm a gun owner
and I vote" bumper sticker.  In fact, I think my house is the only one on the
block where the vehicles have not been stolen from during the night.  

(Shooting a criminal in Arizona is more likely to get you an award than
prosection or a civil case -- provided you are protecting life.)



-- 
"25 States allow anyone to buy a gun, strap it on, and walk down the street with
no permit of any kind: some say it's crazy.  However, 4 out of 5 US murders are 
committed in the other half of the country: so who is crazy?"   -  Andrew Ford
gtephx!forda@enuucp.eas.asu.edu  OR  !uunet!samsung!romed!enuucp!gtephx!forda
From: davidst@microsoft.com (David Steckler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Saw Double Action Only AMT Backup
Date: 23 Nov 92 21:40:26 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article <LR6iuB1w164w@upchrch.UUCP> upchrch!joel@peora.sdc.ccur.com (Joel Upchurch  ) writes:
#I was trading e-mail with another member of this group the other day,
#when I said that my ideal pocket gun would be .380 with a Colt Mustang
#Pocketlite form factor and a double action only trigger.
#
#
#Does anybody know anything more about this pistol?
#

Yes. Avoid this gun. I owned one for about a week before taking the
piece-o-crap back and trading up for a Walther PPK/S. It didn't feed correctly
and it was a bitch to clean (you actually have to use a punch, a rubber mallet
and a small dowel to get the thing apart). According to someone who sent
me mail when I posted my problems to this group, there are two kinds of AMT
backups, those that work and those that don't and you don't know which kind
you got until you try it at the range.

Even if the stupid thing worked correctly, cleaning it was such a pain I 
don't know if I'd want to spend 1/2 hour in dissasembly/reassembly each time
I went to the range.

I now have a PPK/S and am _very_ happy. I don't think I can be any clearer:
Avoid the AMT Backup. (unless, of course you like spending your time talking
with your gunsmith about why your .380 isn't working :-)

	...Dave

P.S. Yes, some people out there have AMT Backups that work just fine. But many
people, myself included, have gotten duds. Doesn't instill a high level of 
confidence.
From: amirza@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Anmar Caves)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Taurus PT99 AF
Date: 16 Nov 92 23:09:16 GMT
Article-I.D.: rutgers.9211161856.AA23850
Organization: Indiana University

In article <1992Nov16.052129.7821@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> mporter@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Matthew D Porter) writes:
#Hello,
#
#     I've been reading this group for six months now and I think I'm ready to 
#purchase my first handgun.  I settled on a 9mm auto, and because of cost (I'm 
#still in school) I would like to get a Browning Hi-Power or a Taurus.  Ok, an 
#acquaintance is selling his Taurus PT99AF and he's not sure how much it is 
#worth.  I have not fired it yet (I will), but I know it has only had 200-300 
#rounds put through it and it is missing a little blueing where the slide has 
#been moving.  I checked the blue book values, and assuming it is 95% condition,
#its average worth is $270.  My question is:  Are these values accurate?  I'm 
#concerned that these values are under current retail.  I'd like to hear what 
#Taurus' sell for in the real world.  I will probably check prices at my local 
#gun stores as well, to get an idea of what to offer.

I've owned 2 PT99AFs, one blued, one nickel.

I picked up the nickel one for about $330 used a few months ago.  My
first one I put several thousand rounds through, and I was very
pleased with it.  The nickel one I've put almost 1000 rounds through
it and I'm just as happy.  It is a very accurate gun, very reliable,
and IMNSHO a very pretty one at that.  If you can get it for under
$350 it's well worth it.


-- 
Anmar Mirza   # Chief of Tranquility  #My Opinions! NotIU's!#Purveyor of
EMT-D         # Base, Lawrence Co. IN # Legalize Explosives!#nontraditional
N9ISY (tech)  # Somewhere out on the  # Politicians prefer  #family values
Networks Tech.# Mirza Ranch.C'mon over# unarmed peasants.   #Space For Rent