From: kane@buast7.bu.edu (Hot Young Star)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,ca.politics,ba.politics
Subject: Re: Molesters vs Molestation (WAS Re: Against Our Will)
Date: 29 Jul 92 20:49:29 GMT
Followup-To: talk.politics.misc
Organization: Astronomy Department, Boston University, Boston, MA, USA

In article <92240@bu.edu> I was arguing with Clayton about the implications
of child molestation studies he had referred to:

>[Janet Hyde] said 20% of the molestations (note: NOT molesters, but
>MOLESTATIONS) were committed by men on boys. She implied nothing about
>those men's sexual orientation to adults.
>
>Comprehend the difference?

I found a California sex offenders survey by Frisbie and Dondis (1965,
"Recidivism Among Treated Sex Offenders") which echoes this. Before they
get to the issue of recidivism, they present an overview of molestation:

Their sample is 1509 adult male patients, of whom 68% had been convicted of
abuse of girls, 28% of abuse of boys, and 4% of abuse of both boys and girls.
All were incarcerated for treatment.

Frisbie and Dondis treat homosexuality as a completely different disorder
[let's leave aside their assumptions about how society should deal with
homosexuals, they're not too kind] where homosexuality is defined as occurring
only between adult males over the age of 18. They have a separate sample of 19
homosexuals punished for homosexual acts with adults (note the much smaller
incidence, 19 compared to 427 for boy-molesters).

Even studies extremely inolerant of homosexuality among consenting adults
assume that it involves a completely different dynamic than men who molest
boys.

>You are persistently misunderstanding my point. If men who molest boys
>do so at a rate about ***12*** times that of men who molest girls [Abel
>and Harlow] (which by the way I believe), then those men make up a much
>smaller fraction of molesters than the girl-molesters, because they
>INDIVIDUALLY do a lot more damage. If we are to believe Hyde, 20% of the
>molestations involve boys. In the large sample of Abel and Harlow, 67000,
>this would mean about 13400 incidents. Now, since boy-molesters apparently
>have a large average number of victims, 282, then the average number of
>boy-molesters in the sample would be 13400 divided by 282, which is 48.

Frisbie and Dondis also find that boy-molesters have a signficantly greater
average number of victims than girl-molesters. But they don't conclude that
the boy molesters are homosexuals.

>Think about it. 48 out of 403. This is about 12%. This number represents the
>fraction of MOLESTERS that molest boys exclusively.
>But then Abel and Harlow present another amazing statistic, that of these 48,
>the men who molested boys, "only 21% were exclusive homosexuals".

So 21% of 48 is about 10. 10 out of 403 molesters considered themselves to
be exclusively homosexual.

>In light of
>the fact that this subsample deals only with boys, their statement can't
>logically be made to say that men who molest boys are homosexual, since they
>themselves say that only 21% are homosexual.
>
>But making that assumption is EXACTLY what you did with Hyde's conclusion.
>You took her statement that 20% of the molestation incidents were homosexual,
>that is, involving men and boys, and then made the leap of faith that all
>of these molesters were homosexual themselves. But by golly, Abel and Harlow
>say you can't do that---only 21% of the guys who molest boys are actually
>homosexual!

>The proper conclusion to make is that "men who molest boys,
>regardless of their sexual orientation with respect to adults, do so
>at a rate very much higher than their girl molesting counterparts.

And that molesters who self-identify as exclusively homosexual make up
a very small fraction (10 out of 403) of all molesters.

Here is some other info I dug up:

[1.] David Finkelhor et al, 1986 "Sourcebook on Child Sexual Abuse"

p62: based on the review of many studies, Finkelhor concludes that
71% of victims are female, 29% male. He quotes studies which give
female-to-male victim ratios ranging from 1.5:1 all the way to 9:1.

[2.] Groth et al, 1978 LAE Journal of the American Criminal Justice
Association, vol 41, #1:

he says 83% of all adult boy-molesters identify as exclusively heterosexual,
17% as bisexual, and ***NONE*** as homosexual.

[3.] A good overview of information about child molestation is provided by
Mary deYoung (1987) "Child Molestation Bibliography". She presents a
chapter on homosexual child molestation:

"As some of the cited historical references have demonstrated, the
notion that homosexuals in general pose a risk to children is deeply
rooted within culture. Most studies on homosexuality and on sexual
preference would debunk that notion, but the belief seems to persist
and is all too often easilt mobilized by reported cases of homosexual
child molestation that seem to give it credibility and substance.

"Perhaps because that very belief has been so persistent it has become
a stimulus to research" [...]

deYoung then goes on to give many references, among them:

[under clinical descriptions]

Fischer and Howell, 1970 Diseases of the Nervous System, 31, 9:
"Psychological Needs of Homosexual Pedophiliacs". They conclude
unexpectedly that homosexual child molesters have higher HETEROSEXUAL
drives than do heterosexual child molesters.

Freund et al, 1982 Behavior Research and Therapy, 20, 2:
"Experimental Analysis of Pedophilia". The authors administer
phallometric (i.e. arousal measuring) tests with pictures of nude
males and females to boy-molesters, to test their sexual responses.
The hypothesis tested is that a large fraction will be heterosexual
or bisexual (or bisexual in the sense that they prefer adult females
but male children). The authors conclude that indeed this is true.

Groth and Burgess, 1980 American Journal of Psychiatry, 137, 7:
"Male Rape: Offenders and Victims". Sexual interests in other adults
are almost always unresolved or conflictual, in males molesters of
other males, both adults and children.

Brian.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
kane@{buast7,astro}.bu.edu (Hot Young Star) Astronomy Dept, Boston University,
Boston, MA 02215. True personal salvation is achieved by absolute faith in
oneself.
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