From: vidynath@function.mps.ohio-state.edu (Vidhyarath K Rao)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
Subject: Re: Are Aryans natives of India?
Date: 11 Sep 1992 18:07:20 -0400
Organization: Department of Mathematics, The Ohio State University
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: function.mps.ohio-state.edu
Summary: Nit-picking

In article <42622@ogicse.ogi.edu> partha@mse.ogi.edu (R. Parthasarathy) writes:
[lots of deleted stuff]
>Aryan speaking people must have invaded these places in hordes
>and destroyed most of them, pretty much the same way as Genghis Khan's hordes
>wiped out existing civilizations. 

The current consensus is that the Indus Valley civilization was done in by
changes in the river flow patterns. Archeology does not support large
scale destructions/massacres.

> The aryan Gods, viz.. Indra,
>Mithra, Varuna etc.. have been mentioned in other cultures in the middle
>east that existed several millennia ago (eg. the Hittites). 
						  ^^^^^^^^^
Must be Mittanis. The exact relationship to Indo-Aryans is not clear.
 

>(8) Fire is a very important thing in colder climates. When Zarathurstra
>formed his religion he gave tremendous importance to fire. In order to
>sustain fire in cold regions where wood is scarce, cow dung becomes an
>alternate source. 

Fire is important to most people. At least those who cook their food.
Climate has not much to do with it.

What is somewhat unusual about Indians and Iranians is that they considered
fire as the messenger of gods. Thus the throwing of sacrificial portions
into the fire. I am not sure how prevelant this concept is elsewhere.

>(11) Soma drinking has not been proved to be a popular practice in
>southern India where the "native cultures" are said to be pushed down to.
>I don't know if plants for making soma grow in the sub-continent regions 
>much.

First we have to figure out what Soma plant really is. Nobody knows for
sure. The plants used in historical times are all clearly meant to be
substitutes. None them match the descriptions in the RgVeda. But, of course,
all these substitutes grow in the subcontinent. The original, by inference,
does not. It is not clear if the hoama of the Zorostrians is the real
article either.

>(12) Vedas seem to have become an important aspect of life among these
>people after settling at the Punjab region. The sections which migrated
>towards the Iranian plateau don't seem to have followed Vedic rituals
>even though they had worshipped Indra, Mithra, Varuna, Athithi, Aswin etc..
>(This I found in a book written by an Iranian general about history of
>Persia). Yama in Vedic religion was called Jamshed by their Persian
>counterparts. In fact the two sections seem to have gone the opposite way.
>Asuras came to be associated with evil beings in Vedic religion while 
>they became demi-gods and divine for the Iranians (Ahura Mazda was the
>Lord in Zorashtrianism. Ahura = Asura, Sindh = Hindh, Soma = Hoama etc..)

Several points here: Names change over time too. In the Avesta, Yama is
called Yima. Jamshed is (I think) middle persian. Ahura Mazda is Avestan,
later version being Ohrmazd or something like that. Historical accuracy is
important in history :-^

In the RgVeda, and to some extent in the AtharvaVeda, Asura means lord.
It never means demon in the RgVeda. That is a shift in meaning that occured
later. Interestingly enough, deva/divine etc mean god in all Indo-European
languages except Iranian ones. There div is devil. No consensus among the
experts on why.

I am told that there are several correspondances between Vedas and Avesta.
Apparently there are verses of the RgVeda that can be found in the Avesta
after applying certain well-defined changes of pronounciation. Avesta
even contains analogues of certain yajus. Soma ritual is similar in broad
outline in both. Zarathustra was apparently against animal sacrifices, which
may lead to the differences in ritual at historical times.

Just nit-picking.

-- 
Vidhyanth Rao			It is the man, not the method, that solves
nathrao+@osu.edu		the problem. - Henri Poincare
(614)-366-9341			[as paraphrased by E. T. Bell]
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil,soc.culture.indian