Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: SCA combat as Duelling (was Re: SCA Combat in Meridies)
From: z_berryrw@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Date: 30 Jul 92 14:31:25 CST
Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University

In article <712164687.F00002@ocitor.fidonet>, Stephen.Whitis@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Stephen Whitis) writes:
> Greetings unto Wolfrick Thorinsson, from Stephen of the Grove!
> 
> You wrote...
> 
>>I would respectfully point out that "duels" as you have defined them _DO_
>>occur in the SCA.  I am referring to challenge or honour duels.  These
>>combats do occasionally arise, and are a valid part of the re-creation we
>>do.  If one feels dishonoured or wronged, the Field of Honour can be an
>>appropriate means of redress.  As long as these "duels" are strictly
>>within the rules of SCA combat (either Medieval or Renaisance styles) then
>>IMHO they are appropriate.
> 
> I disagree.  Since our entire system of combat (both heavy and ligh
> t) is based on honor, conducting a fight that was arranged
> *because* you are angry with someone is, in my opinion, something
> that should not happen.  I am not, of course, talking about the
> duels that are arranged as a part of the game, those done in jest,
> etc.  But a duel where the combatants are truly upset with each
> other is a bad thing.
Stephen,

IMHO, Persons who feel angry with one another would not choose the field of 
Honour as a forum for dispute resolution.  In plainer speech, if they're 
going to brawl, the aren't going to wait to put on armor first.  I didn't
intend to suggest that angry combatants be allowed to participate.  In fact,
part of a Knight Marshal's job is to watch for things like this.

...deletion...
> And, when the fight is over, what has been done?  Will either of
> the fighters feel that the original problem has been adequetly
> dealt with?
That depends on the spirit and intent of the particpants before they entered
the field.  Again, if they were angry or upset, they shouldn't have fought in
the first place.

> Does [sic :) ] we (the SCA as a whole) believe that Might Makes
> Right?  Has justice, or anything else, been served?  Should
> non-fighters be the inherent "bad-guy" whenever a fighter insults
> them in some way?

{THIS IS NOT A FLAME}
1) "Might Makes Right?" We select our Kingdom Rulers by "Right of
   Arms."  Yes there are other considerations, BUT every ruler has WON the
right to rule by Skill at Arms on the tourney field.
2) "Has justice been served?" Again, I say that depends on the intent of the
  participants in the first place.
3) "non-fighters" = "bad-guy"?  The rules of SCA combat say (and I am
paraphrasing) that no person may ever be required to fight by any means, and 
that any fighter may refuse to fight any combatant at any time, without
specifying reason(s) and WITHOUT LOSS OF HONOUR (though still losing the fight,
if in a tourney).  Any "non-combatant" may ask any combatant to act as
Champion, though of course, the potential champion may decline....

...deletion...
> Stephen of the Grove
> Steppes/Ansteorra        FIDO 1:124/4229
> Stephen.Whitis@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org
> ___
>  X MegaMail 2.10 #0:CRUSADE CRUSADE CRUSADE!!!!
> 
>  * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)

Stephen,

Though I realize I did not say this in my original post, my intent was to
point out that what we do on the tourney field CAN be misconstrued by outsiders
as "duelling."  Though the points you and I have made about duelling in the SCA
may be valid, I was speaking to the issue of mundane law.  I think we agree in
principle, if not in word.  I would NEVER allow combatants who were obviously
angry or upset to step onto my list-field, light or heavy.  I would NEVER use
the pretense of SCA combat, light or heavy, to be used to inflict pain or
injury for the purpose of revenge, or allow same to occur on my list field,
practice field, back yard, or what-have-you.

My basic philosophy on fighting in th SCA is that it must be 1) Safe, 2) Fun
IN THAT ORDER.  Those conditions being satisfied, do what you will.

Wolfrick Thorinsson, Shire of Greywood, Ansteorra

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca