From: strom@Watson.Ibm.Com (Rob Strom)
Subject: Tolerating Atheists (was Re: Jesus vs. Cub Scouts?)
Date: Thu, 08 Oct 92 21:12:32 GMT
Organization: IBM Research

In article <1992Oct8.185406.1020@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>, stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger) writes:
|> Merlyn LeRoy writes:
|> >Stan Krieger writes:
|> > >Todd Stevens writes:
|> >...
[Todd is a Christian Boy Scout leader who is uncomfortable
with giving out religious awards to Jews, Muslims, Buddhists,
etc. in his troop, because this may encourage "discrediting"
of Jesus.]

[Stan criticizes Todd for slighting other
religions and exhorts Todd to learn more tolerance.]

[Merlyn attacks Stan's hypocrisy in criticizing Todd's
intolerance given that Stan has argued in the past that atheists
don't belong in Scouting.]

Stan redirects the followups to alt.atheism and responds:

|> The points I raised do NOT apply to atheists, and I'd wish you'd stop
|> cluttering up rec.scouting with your anti-religion agenda!!!
|> 

The issue originally was raised on rec.scouting, and had to
do with the duties of scout leaders to show tolerance.  So
you were wrong to complain that Merlyn posted where he did.
You may not agree with what he said, but it was as topical
for the forum as what you said.

Now that *you* have broadened the question to whether tolerance
of other religions and tolerance of non-religion have an equal
moral footing, I agree it is more appropriate to discuss it here.
(Although talk.religion.misc could equally be appropriate ---
both Stan and I are Jewish, so why do we do our argument on alt.atheism?)

|> A religious belief is a POSITIVE moral value, and a value that children
|> should be encouraged to adopt.   The issue in these postings is that
|> a BSA unit adult leader was unable to respect legitimate RELIGIOUS
|> beliefs different from his own.  It had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with
|> atheism.
|> 
|> You KNOW the BSA policy in the area of religion, and you know WHY it's
|> a BSA policy.  Trying to equate tolerance toward atheism with tolerance
|> towards legitimate religious beliefs and values is like trying to compare
|> apples and oranges.  Religion/atheism is a TOTALLY separate issue from
|> respecting others RELIGIONS.

I disagree completely, both from the point of view of 
general American pluralistic values, and from the point
of view of Judaism, which explicitly preaches
toleration and respect of the "righteous stranger".
I believe we have a general duty of toleration both
of religious beliefs *and* of religious non-beliefs.
I am an American and a Jew, but I expect people
of other faiths and nationalities with a tradition
of tolerance will agree with me.

In fact, if a distinction were to be made, Jewish
tradition comes down more harshly on "idol-worshippers"
than on atheists.  This presumably derives not
so much from the different beliefs of the "idol-worshippers"
as from the abominable *behaviors* associated
with particular cults.

Why is atheism any different from "legitimate" (what does
this mean anyway) religious beliefs you don't happen to have?
Why is the question of Jews tolerating Christians
different from the question of Jews tolerating atheists?

Remember you pulled this discussion off of rec.scouting,
so the context is toleration in general, not toleration
within Boy Scouts of America.


-- 
Rob Strom, strom@watson.ibm.com, (914) 784-7641
IBM Research, 30 Saw Mill River Road, P.O. Box 704, Yorktown Heights, NY  10598