From: jonke@vim.brl.mil (Patrick J. Jonke )
Newsgroups: misc.legal
Subject: Re: Hate Speech Okay, says the Supreme Court
Keywords: DELENDUS EST FEMINISMUS
Date: 31 Jul 92 16:03:25 GMT
Organization: U.S. Army Ballistic Research Laboratory, APG, MD.

>>. . . I've taught at the university level and witnessed, in the
>>period 1970-, a wide decline in writing and thinking ability.  You
>>don't have to believe me; take a look at SATs.

>Mr. Nilges is correct, in my estimation.  I have encountered college
>graduates of whom it is hard to believe, from their writing and from
>their state of general knowledge, that they graduated from high school.


I feel there is no small amount of tunnel vision involved in this 
perception. I have encountered recent graduates who have great difficulty
with grammar and I have also encountered not-so-recent graduates who
for many decades have relied on the secretarial pool to correct their bad 
English.

If the language skills of the average college graduate today are below
those of yesterday, I feel this is because many more recent graduates
have technical degrees. The academic curriculum for an average technical 
degree does not allow much room for language skill courses and those
courses are clearly not necessary for academic success. I use the word
"clearly" because the best engineers and scientists graduating today
are often Asian-Americans for whom English is a second language.


>Why were the Jews so successful academically? I believe it was because
>their parents, especially their mothers who were full-time mothers with
>no outside employment, devoted their lives to preparing their children
>to "succeed."


I disagree. My family history is unusual in that both of my grandparents
(on my mother's side) worked full time jobs. My grandmother, now 78, was
a C&P telephone switchboard operator. My mother also worked full-time,
first as a secretary and then (after earning a Master's Degree) as a
librarian. She quit her job as a secretary in order to raise 5 children
to school age and then returned to college for her degree. All five of
her children completed 4 year college degrees (two engineers, one
computer scientist, one teacher, and one liberal arts/dietitician).

Neither my grandmother nor my mother "devoted their lives full time" to
mothering, unless one considers their balance of family and career as
a way of "preparing their children to succeed" by solid example. Yes, my
mother did suspend her career to raise her children, but that is a far cry
from what Matt suggested.

In addition, I return to the example of Asian-Americans as further evidence
against the idea that "full-time" mothering is necessary. I don't know if
you have any Asian-Americans in LRAD, Matt, but we do here in VLD. One of
my coworkers is a Vietnamese immigrant and I can assure you that his
mother did not devote herself solely to raising children. Both of his
parents worked full-time in as many jobs as possible in order to support
their children and help pay for their college tuition. I once courted a
Chinese-American woman whose parents were the same.

The key to the success of Asian-Americans is not full-time mothers, but
an extended family support structure (a "full-time family" so to speak)
and solid dedication. 

Asian-Americans want to be successful. Most students do not.


> That's what the mothers in today's Asian immigrant families do for
> their children. 
> That's why Asians have displaced Jews at places like
> the Bronx High School of Science and Harvard.

Yes, the mothers "do things" for their families, but they also work.
Most Americans do not want to work that hard. I only know one Jewish
couple, so I don't have many close contacts to the Jewish community, but
I tentatively propose that today's Jewish-American families do not
feel as threatened as those of the 40s and 50s. Certainly anti-Semitism
is alive and well, but the United States is far removed from the type of
openly hostile anti-Semitism that once occupied the pages of newspapers
and novels. On the other hand, Asian-Americans feel a degree of
insecurity traced directly to the situation they left behind when they
emigrated to the US. I submit that both Jewish people and Asian people,
at different times, were strongly motivated to be successful.

> So, yes, there has been a decline in American students' ability...
>... I lay the blame for this decline squarely at the feet of feminism, 
> that pernicious movement that has misled millions of American women into 
> neglecting their children.

Utter nonsense. Child "neglect" has nothing to do with feminism. The
world of the 50s was fine if you were a white American male, among the
most privileged persons in the world. The rest of the people, women and
minorities, desired change. Overhauling the status quo can never be
done without severe disruptions in a society and I believe we are living
through those disruptions now. Nonetheless, it is the change that is
disruptive and not the ideal.

Matt suggested in a previous post that quite often feminists (both male
and female) are concerned more with their own interests than the
interests of their children. I disagree only in that I feel it is a
severe mistake to single out "feminists" instead of "Americans".
However, I also look to the long-term and believe the change toward a
more egalitarian society is much better for all children, not just white
males, and that the disruptions are a short-term phenomenon.

Unfortunately for feminism, it, like many other "progressive"
disciplines such as environmentalism, is beset with high profile
"leaders" who are far more radical than the mainstream and do a great
deal of harm. Therefore, many people vilify "feminists" when they
really intend to vilify outspoken, radical feminists. 

In my eyes, a "feminist" is a person who supports non-traditional roles
for women. I do not accept the idea that heterosexual sex is rape but I
still consider myself a feminist. I also fail to see how my grandmother's 
and my mother's careers adversely affected their families in the manner 
Matt suggested. 

The United States cannot continue to prosper if it neglects the
potential leadership, academic achievement, and business acumen of 51%
of the population by sustaining "male priviledge".


Patrick Jonke
US Army Ballistic Research Laboratory
-- 
	I thought I'd never love but four women in my life,
		my mother, my sister, my kitty-cat, and my wife...
 
	A smile, two bangs, and a religion.
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