HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: battlec@cs.rpi.edu (Clark Battle)
Subject: IMHO
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 16:51:48 GMT

maybe I'm just an idiot but what does IMHO mean?  I see it written here
a lot.
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
From: KHATCH@130.187.170.178 (kh)
Subject: Re: MORE EXPERIENCE
Organization: Terra Incognita
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 14:54:29 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.11

In <1992Sep29.194915.2309@m.cs.uiuc.edu> mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu writes:

> I HAVE thought of the second body, but I was pretty sure that it is NOT
> material OR electrical.  Assuming the second body actually exists
> outside your own head (which has not been demonstrated) an electric
> field should NOT have any effect.  How could it?  If the second body
> is affected by electricity, then it would be effected by the electrical
> properties of all ordinary matter, and would interact with them.
> 

  I've noticed that flying too close to power lines in OBEs can be very 
unpleasant.  Since I'm from the camp that says that OBEs are purely mental 
(not supernatural) I have attributed this effect to the fact that I have been 
so heavily warned about powerlines from the time I was old enough to fly a 
kite. Do we fly our kites near power lines? No, they're DANGEROUS! Do we fly 
our (second) body near powerlines?
From: toma@hyperion.gsfc.nasa.gov (Tom Atwater)
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
Subject: Re: Spiritual Guides and more
Date: 6 Oct 92 13:55:45 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Code 916, NASA Goddard Space Flight Center

In article <1992Oct6.000422.24470@u.washington.edu> dali@milton.u.washington.edu (David A. Lee) writes:
>In article <1aq0r6INNi64@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> oldham@ces.cwru.edu (Daniel Oldham) writes:
[overselves, ancient souls, 'Alkasia' record, etc.

>Sounds like someone has been reading a little too much Robert Monroe!

Doesn't sound like that to me.
My impression of Monroe is that he is very careful about what he does,
and as far as I know has never mentioned in his books any of the subjects
given in the original post.

If you are lumping him in with many of the things labeled 'new age' today,
than you are making a mistake.
From: rik@hplb.hpl.hp.com (Richard Beckett)
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 08:57:20 GMT
Subject: Re: Spirit Guides
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Labs, Bristol, UK
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
Distribution: usa
Reply-To: rik@hplb.hpl.hp.com


	Oh No ! I've caught the dreaded .signature virus !!!



	Cheers,


		RIK


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rik O'Chet, Bristol, England.		
Email: rik@hplb.hpl.hp.com		One's never alone with a Rubber Duck !
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------



	Cheers,


		RIK


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rik O'Chet, Bristol, England.		
Email: rik@hplb.hpl.hp.com		One's never alone with a Rubber Duck !
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------



	Cheers,


		RIK


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rik O'Chet, Bristol, England.		
Email: rik@hplb.hpl.hp.com		One's never alone with a Rubber Duck !
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Xref: sparky alt.out-of-body:121 alt.oobe:290
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body,alt.oobe
Subject: Re: MORE EXPERIENCE
From: S952092@UMSLVMA.UMSL.EDU
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 17:59:35 GMT
Organization: UM ST. LOUIS

In article <1992Sep28.194359.14124@m.cs.uiuc.edu>
mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath) writes:
 
>
>In article <1992Sep20.204054.1@husky1.stmarys.ca>, gen5006@husky1.stmarys.ca (Bill McKinnon) writes in aprt:
>|> *Pessimist Mode On*
>|>
>|> First, and most obvious to most who've done obe's, stay away from sources of
>|> electricity.  They do nasty things to you.
>
 
Robert McGrath asked:
>Huh?  Just what sort of nasty things do you claim might happen?
>How can electricity have any effect at all on you when you are OBE'ing?
 
   Have ever thought of material of the second body? If you look at
  cases of haunted houses-a lot of static ELECTRICITY was detected.Well,
  I can haunt a house myself :), but it is not fun anymore.
Anyway electric fieldsshould have some affect on your second body.
 
Jack.
From: jtulli@eagle.wesleyan.edu
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
Subject: from alt.oobe
Date: 1 Oct 92 01:19:01 GMT
Organization: Wesleyan University

Subject: WTBWAW for sale
From: dnibby@asylum.UUCP (Dana Nibby)
Organization: Epilogue Technology Corp.

I have about 10 copies of the book "Would the Buddha Wear
a Walkman?" by Hooper and Teresi for sale. This book is a good
introduction to mind machines, brain toys, and consciousness
alteration in general. I'm selling it for $11 in the U.S.
(list price is $16.95) If you'd like a copy, send e-mail to

    d_nibby@unhh.unh.edu
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body,alt.oobe
From: lcd@ais.org (Leon Dent)
Subject: Re: Oprah - 09/24/92
Keywords: Oprah Astral Projection Brain Machine
Organization: UMCC
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 21:58:32 GMT

The Joen Rivers show preceded the Oprah show.  It was on the same subject,
NDE.  The was a Dr. Raymond(?) Moody who professes to be able to
duplicate NDE without a death experience.  At the the of Joan's show
she was invited to Alabama (Dr. Moody's home base).  She said she would
tell her experiences on Monday's show (this show aired on Fri. I think).

I missed Monday's show. (So sue me). 

At the end of Oprah's show the man who stood in the audience and spoke
about Joan's experience was a guest on Joan's show with Dr. Moody.
(He is an associate of Dr. Moody).

Also, in a Fox TV show Sightings, Dr. Moody was featured amongst others
and the subject was also NDE. 

(NDE=Near Death Experience).

Leon "I watch way too much T.V." Dent
lcd@ais.org
From: oldham@ces.cwru.edu (Daniel Oldham)
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
Subject: RE: Spiritual Guides and more
Date: 6 Oct 1992 15:04:37 GMT
Organization: Computer Engineering and Science, Case Western Reserve University
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: king.ces.cwru.edu

Newsgroups: alt.oobe,alt.out-of-body
Subject: Re: Spiritual Guides and more
Summary: 
Expires: 
Followup-To: 
Distribution: usa
Organization: Computer Engineering and Science, Case Western Reserve University
Keywords: 

In article <1992Oct5.212047.1599@m.cs.uiuc.edu> mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu writes:
>In article <1aq0r6INNi64@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, oldham@ces.cwru.edu (Daniel Oldham) writes:
>|> The second body is a vibration that is at a higher level then electromagnetic
>|> vibrations. 
>What is vibrating?  What "level" is EM vibrations at and what "level" is
>the second body at?  In what sense is one "level" "higher" than another,
>and how do you know?

The universe is made from a spectrum of vibrations were radio and light waves 
just make up a small part of it. The levels are hard to describe for they
extended beyond three dimensions but it is "like" an object can be there in
more than just one shape, it can be all of them at the same time. How do I
know, I don't.

>|> You may be able to measure the effects of the
>|> second body on some materials like you can measure the effects of pyramid power.
>You may be right.  Just how do you measure "pyramid power"?

Pyramid power can not be measured with normal devices but the effect on an
object can be detected. You take a reading before, apply the energy, and then
read the result and compare it to the first reading.

>
>|> Ever person has a spiritual guide called your Overself. You may call upon your
>|> Overself to aid in your development. There are also guides among us to help
>|> answer questions in a more direct manner.
>Oh yes?  And how do you know this?

By looking at the answers to the questions.

>
>|> At this time there are many ancient souls returning to the earth. The ability
>|> to out of body and much more were a gift to us that all people used during
>|> the time of the ancients. Most of this ability was lost after the great
>|> destruction.
>Oh yes?  Evidence?

Very little physical evidence remains if that is what you need to fill your
quest. You need to look beyond what you can hold in your hands and the answers you seek lay within yourself. You must walk this path by yourself.

>This sounds like a bunch of mystic mumbo-jumbo.  Why should I pay more
>attention to this rather than to the 100's of other folks with similar
>unsubstantiated theories about second bodies?

You should not! You should continue with questions but you need to take some
time out to relax. Just for once close your eyes and look inside your head.

dano:

>
>-- 
>  Robert E. McGrath
>  Urbana Illinois
>  mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
From: wpalmer@oasys.dt.navy.mil (William Palmer)
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
Subject: address of the Monroe Institute?
Date: 6 Oct 92 19:48:33 GMT
Reply-To: wpalmer@oasys.dt.navy.mil (William Palmer)
Organization: Naval Surface Warfare Center, Annapolis, MD

Hi all,

	 Can any of you provide me with the address and telephone number
of the Monroe Institute? I know they're located somewhere in rural Virginia,
but that's about as close as I can come. Thanks for your help.

|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Bill Palmer, Code 2744                  voice: 410-267-2964/4817
Applications and Special Projects branch  fax: 410-267-2561
Naval Surface Warfare Center          autovon: 281-4817
Annapolis, MD, USA, 21402-5067       InterNet: wpalmer@oasys.dt.navy.mil

"...death and life are in the power of the tongue."  - Proverbs 18:21
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
-- 
----------------------------------------------
I'm the victim of EJ's signature virus! Oh No!
Xref: sparky alt.out-of-body:143 alt.oobe:305
From: toma@hyperion.gsfc.nasa.gov (Tom Atwater)
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body,alt.oobe
Subject: Re: MORE EXPERIENCE
Date: 2 Oct 92 18:37:19 GMT
Organization: Code 916, NASA Goddard Space Flight Center

In article <1992Oct1.211045.29302@m.cs.uiuc.edu> mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu writes:
>Huh?  How can the second body possibly be electromagnetic?  No test has
>EVER detected such a second body on ANY electromagnetic frequency.  
>Whatever the second body might be, it has been DECISIVELY shown NOT
>to be elctromagnetic.

I do not think that this is the case.
What you mean is, given the current state of our measuring tools,
it has not 'conclusively' (whatever that means) been detected.

What exactly IS your source for claiming that it has 'been DECISIVELY shown NOT
to be electromagnetic', while we're at it?
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
From: fsjas2@ix.acf-lab.alaska.edu (Jeffrey Allen Searles)
Subject: Just Curious
Reply-To: fsjas2@acad3.alaska.edu
Organization: University of Alaska Computer Network
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 23:10:07 GMT

I was just curious what everyone thought was the best way to go about
trying to have an OOBE.  I've never had one but am interested.

J Allan Searles
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
From: forrie@morwyn.uucp (Forrest Aldrich)
Subject: Information/Help needed with OOBEs
Organization: Vision Graphics
			  Dover, NH
			  USA
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 03:02:31 GMT


I'm looking for someone adept at the art of OOBE with whom I can
collaborate and ask some questions (get some help, etc.).  Please
respond via personal email...

Thank you.

-- 
	   -----------	      Forrest Aldrich	      -----------
	   -------     morwyn!forrie@unhtel.unh.edu	  -------
	   ----						     ----
	   --	     VISION GRAPHICS --	Dover, NH - USA	       --
	   ------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body,alt.oobe
From: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath)
Subject: Re: MORE EXPERIENCE
Reply-To: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept of Computer Science
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 17:34:16 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.142636.39623@bas-a.bcc.ac.uk>, ucsatsd@ucl.ac.uk (-8  Big Bad Bob (B3)  8-) writes in part:
[...]
|> clarify "glow", he specified an internal sparkling movement. I asked him to
|> then attempt to move into one of the lines, with he seemed to do with ease,
|> and described himself as being in a sparkling cylindrical river. I had him
|> follow this path into the computer, and he then described a huge, 3-dimensional
|> network structure of lines of generally  yellow/white colour, but with one
|> large, blue-dotted one leading out. Guessing that this may be a representation
|> of the modem-link, I asked him to follow it as best he could. He reported, as 
|> he did so, that it was very tricky, as there were many identical lines, and
|> many junctions. He quickly lost sight of his point of origin (but at no point
|> felt there would be any trouble getting back to his body). After some minutes
|> he described arriving at another big yellow/white network, but with many, many
|> of the blue dotted lines, and some blue solid. At this point he started getting
|> a little disorientated, due to the complexity of his surroundings, and 
|> I told him to finish the experiment, and drop out of OOBE, which he did. He
[...]

Very imaginative.  Of course this has nothing at all to do with the electrical
properties of the computer, modem, telephone connetion.  Nice example of
creative visualization, though.

-- 
  Robert E. McGrath
  Urbana Illinois
  mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
Xref: sparky alt.out-of-body:139 alt.oobe:303
From: ucsatsd@ucl.ac.uk (-8  Big Bad Bob (B3)  8-)
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body,alt.oobe
Subject: Re: MORE EXPERIENCE
Date: 2 Oct 92 12:27:24 GMT
Organization: The HRC

In article <1992Oct1.211045.29302@m.cs.uiuc.edu> mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu writes:
>Huh?  How can the second body possibly be electromagnetic?  No test has
>EVER detected such a second body on ANY electromagnetic frequency.  
>Whatever the second body might be, it has been DECISIVELY shown NOT
>to be elctromagnetic.  Just what are you basing this claim on?

I'm basing the electromagnetic nature of the second body primarily on the
Kirlian aura experiments. The Kirlian Aura is an electromagnetic field, and
I vaguely recall experiments in which 'mystics' have affected compassess 
through no discernable means (whilst firmly IN body), claiming that they
were merely extending their aura to interfere with the instruments. Hearsay
occult law states that the Kirlian Aura is a by-product of the body, and that
the subtle bodies also have their own respective fields, of which they are
comprised. Its just that the frequency, at this point, is getting very very
high. (No, I don't know  how high!)

Anyway, from what I remember of my physics days, the electron has been
proven to be a small electromagnetic standing wave in a contained area.
Since cyclotron  experiments have proven that electrons are splittable into
quarks, as are protons and neutrons, then that means that all 3 types of
'basic' particle are, being made of the same thing, also electromagnetic
standing waves. Therefore, all matter is made up of electromagnetic waves
as it is, and so the suggestion that any of the subtle bodies is not
electromagnetic becomes odd.

Incidentally,where do you authenticate your claim that the subtle bodies have
been 'DECISIVELY' proven to not be electromagnetic?

Tim.

--
                                  |   "Everything is true, even false things."
        *****     B3     *****    | "Even false things? How can that be??"
                                  |   "Dont ask me man, I didn't do it!"
    | ucsatsd@ucl.ac.uk // perhaps via nsf.ac.uk if you get desperate..... |
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
Subject: Spirit Guides
From: S952092@UMSLVMA.UMSL.EDU
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 21:02:40 GMT
Organization: UM ST. LOUIS

 
Well, arguing about is second body electromagnetic or not will not
bring us anywhere. Why don't we focus more on our experiences.....
Check out one of mines, I think it was fascinating.....
 
I woke up astrally(my body was asleep). When I open my astral eyes,I could
 see a huge tall figure standing beside my bad.
At first I became kind of uncomfortable, it was about 8 feet tall. But then
I could feel that the entity does not aggressive at all. I was even feeling
secure when it was there. I thought it was my guide, so I separated my astral
arm out of physical and reached for his hand.
Then I could see how his hand reached out for mine and took it. It felt
like the real hand too.He began gently pull me out of my body. Separation
is a very interesting event during OOBEs. As soon I separated my head, I
began to feel lighterand flewup to the ceiling like a hot air balloon.
When I reached the ceiling the entity was gone. Well, since I was out-of-
body I desided to go over my friends house, where he put a note for me
to read. My friend is very sceptical.Emagine his surprise when I gave him
a call in the morning and told what was written on his note.
 
I am interested if anybody else were pulled out of body just like I was.
By-the-way during a day after experience, I felt a strangetingling sensetion
in my right arm. The arm that I used to take the entities hand.....
 
 
 
Jack.
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body,alt.oobe
From: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath)
Subject: Re: MORE EXPERIENCE
Reply-To: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept of Computer Science
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 16:03:16 GMT

In article <1992Oct1.140438.1@acad3.alaska.edu>, fsrsg@acad3.alaska.edu (Richard S. Guse) writes:
|> In article <1992Oct1.211045.29302@m.cs.uiuc.edu>, mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath) writes:
|> > In article <1992Oct01.104950.39732@bas-a.bcc.ac.uk>, ucsatsd@ucl.ac.uk (-8  Big Bad Bob (B3)  8-) writes in part:
|> > |> Anyway, it has no bearing on the real crux of my post, which was that the
|> > |> second body is electromagnetic, and that I have never found electricity to
|> > |> be problematic during OOBE, despite reasonable possibility of interference.
|> > 
|> > Huh?  How can the second body possibly be electromagnetic?  No test has
|> > EVER detected such a second body on ANY electromagnetic frequency.  
|> > Whatever the second body might be, it has been DECISIVELY shown NOT
|> > to be elctromagnetic.  Just what are you basing this claim on?
|> > 
|> on the contrary.  In many books I've read, including Monroe, they have
|> mentioned an affinity of the astral body to power lines.  However, I believe
|> there is more here than meets the eye...in more ways than one!
|> 
|> -r
What does "an affinity" mean?  And what does "an affinity" have to do
with the claim that the "second body" is electromagnetic?  And what
in the world do you mean by "more here than meets the eye...in more
ways than one"?

-- 
  Robert E. McGrath
  Urbana Illinois
  mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
From: preiser@cancer.unm.edu (Doug Preiser)
Subject: Re: IMHO
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 92 21:48:26 GMT
Organization: UNM Cancer Center
Reply-To: preiser@cancer.unm.edu

In article <!+lz5ff@rpi.edu>, battlec@cs.rpi.edu (Clark Battle) writes:
>maybe I'm just an idiot but what does IMHO mean?  I see it written here
>a lot.
IMHO, IMHO means In My Humble Opinion.
   Internet: preiser@cancer.unm.edu
   Bitnet:   preiser@unmb                     I do M
Xref: sparky alt.out-of-body:124 alt.oobe:294
From: lionhart@netlink.cts.com (Jackie Zucconi)
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
Subject: OBE limitations
Date: 5 Oct 92 05:01:26 GMT
Organization: NetLink Online Communications, San Diego CA


 Sorry Gary, I'm unable to remember off hand the title and author of the 
book I read but his claims led me to a few questions. First he claimed 
that there was no geographical boundary for OBE's, a person can "visit" 
anywhere on Earth and this same author even postulated other planets but 
admitted he never heard of anyone going to them; what's the groups 
consensus on this matter? My next question deals with time limitations. 
This same author stated that it was possible to travel backwards and 
forwards in time duuring an OBE, the only problem was that the further 
you traveled from the present time the "fuzzier" things became so one 
would reach a point were they really couldn't see/hear anything because 
they traveled too far. I would also like to know whether or not the group 
adheres to this theory. If "time travel" is indeed a viable aspect of 
OBE's I just might try to have an OBE (thus my cause of interest).
                           jackie

--                    
INTERNET:  lionhart@netlink.cts.com (Jackie Zucconi)
UUCP:   ...!ryptyde!netlink!lionhart
NetLink Online Communications * Public Access in San Diego, CA (619) 453-1115
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
From: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath)
Subject: Re: THE DIVINE MASTERS and SOUL TRAVEL
Reply-To: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept of Computer Science
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 02:56:03 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.162312.1553@cnsvax.uwec.edu>, mcelwre@cnsvax.uwec.edu writes:
|>           
|> 
|>                       THE DIVINE MASTERS and SOUL TRAVEL 
|>       
Why is this posted here?
From: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath)
Subject: Re: MORE EXPERIENCE
Reply-To: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept of Computer Science
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 19:43:59 GMT

In article <1992Sep20.204054.1@husky1.stmarys.ca>, gen5006@husky1.stmarys.ca (Bill McKinnon) writes in aprt:
|> *Pessimist Mode On*
|> 
|> First, and most obvious to most who've done obe's, stay away from sources of
|> electricity.  They do nasty things to you.  

Huh?  Just what sort of nasty things do you claim might happen?
How can electricity have any effect at all on you when you are OBE'ing?

-- 
  Robert E. McGrath
  Urbana Illinois
  mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
Xref: sparky alt.out-of-body:155 alt.oobe:311
From: ucsatsd@ucl.ac.uk (-8  Big Bad Bob (B3)  8-)
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body,alt.oobe
Subject: Re: MORE EXPERIENCE
Date: 5 Oct 92 11:51:26 GMT
Organization: The HRC

In article <1992Oct5.024034.3605@m.cs.uiuc.edu> mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu writes, 
quoting me:
>|> to deny the possibility  (including Susan Blackmore, who, in an interview
>|> which I saw, admitted that she had never got any positive result  in any
>|> paranormal experiment whatsoever, which to my fanciful mind suggests a
>|> suppressor.)
>She has, however, definitely had an OBE (among other amazing personal
>experiences).  Don't be so closed-minded and bigoted.  Why don't you find 

That's good news. I'm extremely pleased for her. When I saw the interview,
she seemed rather depressed about the whole thing. I have, of course, no
idea as to how old the interview was.

>out the truth about what Blackmore has experienced instead of labelling her.  
>Read her books.  You might learn something.

Undoubtedly!  Sadly, I'm hideously broke, but if I come across one, I'll
have a looksee. 

>|> comprises the etheric body. To detect the movement of the body through
>|> electromagnetic interference would be like trying to spot someone move from
>|> New York to Los Angeles by looking for deflections in the Earth's orbit.
>This is all very poetic.  Do you have any evidence for any of these 
>marvelous (but hardly original) speculations?

No. I can think of no test that could distinguish whether or not OOBE is 
actually a physical seperation, scrying, or some odd microcosm-represents-
macrocosm thing. Really, its just a personal belief.

>In the end, I find that, after all the to-and-froing, we come to a fair
>agreement:
>
>  1.  The 'second body' might be some electromagnetic phenomenon.
>  2.  There is no evidence that this actually is the case.
>  3.  There are other hypotheses which should be considered (such
>  as your etherial levels or subtle body theory)

Absolutely. I tend not to hold dogmatic opinions on anything much, and feel
that most situations support an examination of multiple hypotheses.

It doesn't really matter very much, as far as I'm concerned. The crux is that
I have proven to personal satisfaction that it is possible to use OOBEs to
view areas of the planet that were previously unknown, in real-time. 

Tim.  
--
                                  |   "Everything is true, even false things."
        *****     B3     *****    | "Even false things? How can that be??"
                                  |   "Dont ask me man, I didn't do it!"
    | ucsatsd@ucl.ac.uk // perhaps via nsf.ac.uk if you get desperate..... |  
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body