HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: shoichi@rkna50.riken.go.jp (Shoichi Kubodera)
Subject: Re: Mahler 9 (was Re:Mahler 1)
Organization: Institute of Physical & Chemical Research (RIKEN) Saitama,Japan
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 09:41:08 GMT

In article <459QBRRW@cc.swarthmore.edu> rbrooks1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Rob Brooks) writes:
>In article <1992Oct2.022221.5496@cucs5.cs.cuhk.hk>,
>bmtong@cucs11.cs.cuhk.hk (Tong Bo-Ming) writes:
>
>> 	I would also like to hear about all the favourite recordings of
>> Mahler's 9th and Song of the Earth.  Any suggestions ?
>>
>I recently bought Barbirolli's version of the ninth and it is quite good
>(the finale is magical).  The best I've heard is without a doubt
>Haitink/Concertge-
>bow from his 70's cycle and Karajan's is well worth looking into.  As far
>as "Das Liede" goes the performance on EMI with Klemperer/Ludwig/Wunderlich
>has this kind of effect on you: A while ago my dad was driving home when
>this recording came on the radio and he stopped by the side of the road to
>hear the whole thing.  It's awesome.

I would vote for Karajan's live performance (DG) for the best 9th ever
officially recorded.

THE best 9th I've ever heard is also Karajan's live at the 100-year
anniversary concert of the Berlin Philharmonic in 1979 (?). Our
radio station broadcast that. Oh, there is no question, that is the best.

Recent Bernstein's 9th with Berlin Philharmonic is also awesome. There is 
a rumor saying;  Lenny made such extraordinary performance with Berlin
while Karajan was still there. That is the reason Karajan re-recorded the
9th with Berlin at live. 

Speaking about the Das Lied, I would agree  the Ludwig/Wunderlich/
Klemperer performance is the best among all. However, I want to keep the 
monoral Walter/Ferrier recording one of the best of the Erde.

Shoichi Kubodera
shoichi@rkna50.riken.go.jp
 
So many Mahler CDs, but so few good Mahler CDs.......


 
9th with Berlin
From: givler@bermuda.cbm.commodore.com (Greg Givler)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: voice training and sinus conditions
Date: 25 Sep 92 18:26:25 GMT
Organization: Another Amiga UNIX System

In article <Bv1Fzw.ECJ@news.udel.edu> conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad) writes:
>One of the most important things for the original questioner to get from
>all this is the sheer fact of the volume and variety of response
>generated.
>
>In other words, vocal training is a topic on which people disagree
>strongly.  You will read a lot of very knowledgeable-sounding and
>well-expressed statements that are diametrically opposed to each other.
>
>I'm the same -- some of what I've read in this series of responses has
>evoked an involuntary shout of disagreement from me.  So the main thing
>is that you, the voice student, will have to make your own way,
>maintaining that precarious balance between *trusting* your teacher
>(which is necessary) and maintaining a healthy skepticism if the results
>seem detrimental (also necessary).  It takes years, and many (most?)
>singers can tell of years spent on false trails and misguided study with
>someone who seemed convincing at the time.
>

You know as I look back on this, I feel very fortunate. My voice teacher 
and I had a very good Student, Teacher relationship. There have never been
any real differences of opinion, in the way to achieve the Goal, a good 
sound. After a break, where I could not afford lessons, I went back and
was able to discuss philosophy of voice with him. Quite a different
approach. Also he had changed his thinking about certain things, but 
it all seemed to fit well with my voice and worked for me.

>The only thing certain about this topic is that people disagree hugely
>about it.

Ain't it the Truth.

>
>Jon Alan Conrad

Greg
-- 
Greg Givler                 | "There are lies, damned lies, and statistics"
Commodore Product Assurance | - Mark Twain
givler@cbmvax.commodore.com |
===============================================================================
From: inr@eccles.caltech.edu (I. Neill Reid)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: re: recording Poulenc
Date: 5 Oct 1992 11:36 PST
Organization: California Institute of Technology
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: eccles.caltech.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

 kos@cunyvms1.gc.cuny.edu (Bob Kosovsky) writes:

>The point is that Dover is out to make money.  The only way they can be 
>assured of earning something is to reprint public domain editions.
>If you want good editions that incorporate recent musicological editing
>practices, ya gotta pay for it.

 How does this square with Dover's Haydn symphony editions (nos. 88-104) 
which claim to be edited (in part at least) by Robbins Landon - from 
earlier postings on this issue, I'd have thought that they would _not_ 
be public domain.

 Neill Reid 

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: alan@highlite.uucp (Alan McConnell)
Subject: Re: Beethoven Sonata 32
Organization: Gotham Communications Research
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 14:05:48 GMT

carnes@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Richard Carnes) writes:

>danb@zx.qsp.UUCP (Daniel Benbenisty) writes:

      (stuff skipped)

>What's going on in this variation, of course, is a continuation of the
>process of rhythmic diminution that began in the first variation.  The
>*tempo* in this movement doesn't change, but the notes get faster and
>faster, culminating in the famous trills.
     Excellent short analysis - the explanation of what sounds like
     jazz IMHO.

>Another jazzy piece is a scherzo from one of the op. 18 quartets (the
>B-flat major?).

>Richard Carnes
     And don't forget the 3rd variation in the slow movement of Op 127.
Alan McConnell
-- 
Alan McConnell             "What wondrous life is this I lead!
Pixel Analysis              Ripe apples drop about my head . ."
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: mvalinis@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Michael J Valinis)
Subject: Re: A Midsummer Night's Dream
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 01:03:11 GMT

I would like to put in a plug for my favorite recording of _A Midsummer Night's
Dream_ (the one by Mendelssohn).  It is by the Orchestra of the Age of Enlighte
nment, conducted by Charles Mackerras.  Originally issued by Virgin Records, I
have the reissue from the Musical Heritage Society (Cassette MHC 312324K -- 
before my CD days!).  The album contains the Overture and excerpts from the 
Incidental Music.  That quartet of natural horns! Wow!  I don't think I'll ever
be able to listen to that section on modern instruments again.  The flip side 
is a quite serviceable Italian Symphony, again quite a revelation played on 
instruments similar to those available to the composer.  Whatever you think 
about "period" instruments, this album is well worth the listen.
-- 
=>   Michael J. Valinis   -=+{*}+=-   mvalinis@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu   <=
+>=>          "People who make music together cannot be enemies          <=<+
=>+>=>       at least while the music lasts."   - Paul Hindemith       <=<+<=
+>=>+>=>+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+<=<+<=<+
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: bmtong@cucs11.cs.cuhk.hk (Tong Bo-Ming)
Subject: Re: Who Composed 'A Midsummers Night Dream"?
Organization: Faculty of Engineering, The Chinese U. of Hong Kong
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 14:36:49 GMT

sstrong@kean.ucs.mun.ca writes:

>As the title says.. Who composed "A Midsummers Night Dream" ?
>I Believe if was Mendelson (SP?) but I am not 100% sure, (But I am sure 
>someone out there is.).
>Can someone please mail me (or post but I doubt this trivial info will be 
>of interest to anyone else) with the answer.

>Thanks.
>Steve Strong.
>-- 
>sstrong@kean.ucs.mun.ca
>Electrical Engineering, Memorial University of Newfoundland

Yes, it's Mendelssohn.

But there's another "A Midsummer's Night Dream" by Benjamin Britten.

 ________________________________________
|                                        |
| Was entstanden ist, das muB vergehen ! |
| Was vergangen, auferstehen !   ________|___________________________
|_______________________________|                                    |
                                | All that is created must die.      |
Tong Bo-Ming                    | All that has died must rise again. |
                                |____________________________________|
email:bmtong@cucs11.cs.cuhk.hk
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: IMAGING.CLUB@OFFICE.WANG.COM ("Imaging Club")
Subject: Audience Thrilled by French Baroque Evening at Longy School of Music
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: 01 Oct 92 00:25:35 EST

CAMBRIDGE, MA--September 27, 1992--The Longy School of Music in Cambridge
offered a wonderful evening of French Baroque music Friday in their
concert hall.  The faculty concert featured works by Elisabeth-Claude
Jacquet de la Guerre, Telemann, Marin Marais, Anne Danican-Philidor,
and Teobaldi Gatti.

The audience was enthralled by the performances given by Carol Epple,
traverso, Frances Conover Fitch, harpsichord, Douglas Freundlich,
theorbo, Jane Hershey, viola de Gamba, Sonya Lindblad, recorder,
Dana Maiben, violin, Peter Sykes, harpsichord, and Margaret Daniels
Girard, the masked baroque dancer.  Mr Sykes is also chairman of the
Early Music Department at the Longy School of Music.

The performance was part of the very successful SeptemberFest 1992 series
at Longy. The School is located next to Harvard University Law School
at Harvard Square, making it readily accessible for upcoming Longy
concerts.

by Michael.Willett@OFFICE.Wang.com
From: jdooley@maemaster.eng.uci.edu (John R. Dooley)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Das Lied van der Erde ( was Re: Mahler 1)
Date: 2 Oct 92 16:27:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.2ACC786E.28020
Organization: University of California, Irvine

Tong Bo-Ming writes:
>
>	I would also like to hear about all the favourite recordings of
>Mahler's 9th and Song of the Earth.  Any suggestions ?
>

I'm especially fond of Bernard Haitnik's Phillips (mid-price 8-))
recording with (There is nothin' like a) Dame Janet Baker.  There's
also a Bruno Walter recording (I think it's on Angel) from the early
50s that's supposed to be great.  Haven't heard it 8-(.

John D.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: brad@buck.viewlogic.com (Bradford Kellogg)
Subject: Why LPs are superior to CDs (was Re: Why switch to CD?)
Originator: brad@buck
Organization: Viewlogic Systems, Inc.
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 20:05:56 GMT


Yes, LPs are superior to CDs. The LP sleeve is about 12 1/4 inches
square, with a nice BIG picture on the front, and lots of neat text
on the back in a readable type size. With double albums or single
fold outs, you can have 4 areas of 1 foot square each for pictures
and text. The LP falls readily out of the sleeve, and then you can
put it on your record player and listen to it while admiring the
nice BIG picture from across the room.

And what do CDs have? After struggling to open up that plastic thing
which falls to the floor and cracks, you have to tear that silly little 
booklet to shreds in order to extract it from the now broken plastic 
case, where inside you find text the same type size as the compact 
Oxford English Dictionary, so you can't read it. When you try to take 
out the CD in order to play it, the center retainer is so tight that 
you have to pull with all your strength to get the CD off, at which 
point the CD snaps in two. Now it's out of the case, but to play it you 
tape it back together, only to discover it won't play, and you don't
even have a nice BIG picture to look at. So, you see, CDs are useless.

I visted my brother in college and watched his roommate roll an LP 
across the floor, stomp on the edge, breaking it into many pieces, 
whereupon he taped it back together, put it on the record player, and 
it played! Okay, so it sounded a little funky, and he could only play
the side without the tape, but it played. Try that with a CD.

I rest my case.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: Shenkarian analysis
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Distribution: rec
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 12:55:39 GMT

In article <CB.92Sep14171755@tamarack13.timbuk> cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster) writes:

>I haven't looked into Schenker but he seems to offer what might be
>thought of as the down-side of the German approach to things.  I just
>don't understand what he adds to the old I-V-I "irreducible" plan for
>tonal works.  

Well, then, maybe you *should* look in.  Then you might begin to understand.

One thing he offers is a way of relating the deeper levels of the layout
of a piece to the events up on the surface.  Also, he relates the actual
charateristics of I-V-I and other basic progressions to the actual events
in a given piece, removing them from the realm of simple generalization.

As for "the German approach," what does this mean?  Excess of system?
Insistence that only German music is music?  All of these things can be
avoided while still learning from Schenker -- but "looking into" Schenker
is still necessary for enlightenment about his work....

>What I've noticed is that many themes begin on note 5, such as the first
>theme in Mozart's clarinet concerto.  The fifth note over the tonic
>chord seems a perfect Mozartian (or anyone else's) beginning: it's
>stable but not really stable; the chord has no tension, but the melody
>is "open to suggestion".  But the melody will of course end on 1.  So my
>own little hypothesis was that, with an over-all harmonic scheme of
>I-V-I, the primitive melody is 5-1, or maybe 5-7-8.  

Schenker, _Der Freie Satz,_  passim, makes the same argument.  (Actually,
he backs away from 5-4-3-2-1 upper lines somewhat in this, his final
book; and some neo-Schenkerians don't use descents from 5.)  But that's
all pretty irrelevant for several reasons:

--the first note of the piece need not be the first note of the Urlinie.
Many pieces, after all, begin on the tonic note and build up to the 
structural 3 or 5 or whatever.  

--The "Urlinie" is not a "primitive melody," at least, not in any of 
Schenker's writings after about 1921.  It is the upper voice of a
2-part contrapuntal structure that underlies the harmonic-contrapuntal
processes that, in turn, produce tonal melody.

--5-7-8 has some contrapuntal problems at deep levels, among other things.

>And even if the
>melody doesn't actually begin on 5, well, it still does in spirit.  (The
>down-side of German thinking: I have a system that explains everything,
>which is true even if reality doesn't seem to conform to it.)  So maybe

Well, reality as far as what Schenker said certainly includes descents
from 5, so chill out for just a moment, hm?

>I should develop a 3000-page theory from this; votes?

By all means.  But read Schenker's considerably shorter one first.

Roger
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Who wrote "A Midsummer Night's Dream"?
From: brian@comp.vuw.ac.nz (Brian Boutel)
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 08:26:17 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Comp. Sci., Victoria Uni. of Wellington, New Zealand.


In article <srgcraf.16.0@grace.cri.nz>, srgcraf@grace.cri.nz (Ross A Fletcher) writes:
|> In article <199209300651.AA21344@tuna.wang.com> DAVID.CASHMORE@OFFICE.WANG.COM ("David Cashmore") writes:
|> >From: DAVID.CASHMORE@OFFICE.WANG.COM ("David Cashmore")
|> >Subject: Who wrote "A Midsummer Night's Dream"?
|> >Date: 30 Sep 92 02:45:26 EST
|> >I seem to remember hearing a version by Benjamin Britten one Sunday afternoon
|> >on Concert FM.  Isn't the famous wedding march (yes we had it at ours) from
|> >the Mendolsohn (SP also?) version?
|> >
|> >David
|> 
|> The march which brides come in to is Mendelssohn, i.e. anglicised to "Here 
|> Comes the Bride" but the one frequently used to leave the church is more 
|> likely to be the wedding march from Wagner's "Lohengrin."  I doubt if you 
|> heard a "version" by Benjamin Britten - you might have heard him conducting 
|> a performance.
|> 
|> Ross

It's the other way round, Wagner (Bridal March, "Here comes the Bride" ) in,
Mendelssohn (Wedding March) out. 

And Britten did compose an operatic version of  A Midsummer Night's Dream, I saw
it performed (in German) in Osnabruck, I think, in the early '60s. My hosts were
somewhat bemused. Their only reaction was that they thought they preferred German
Music. And let me assure you I can tell the difference between Britten and
Mendelssohn.

--brian

-- 
Internet: brian@comp.vuw.ac.nz
Postal: Brian Boutel, Computer Science Dept, Victoria University of Wellington,
        PO Box 600, Wellington, New Zealand
Phone: +64 4 471-5328   Fax: +64 4 495-5232
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: steve@fid.morgan.com (Steve Apter)
Subject: Re: Anyone heard of this piece?
Organization: Morgan Stanley & Co., New York, NY
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 16:12:16 GMT

In article <icking.717859517@gmd.de> icking@gmd.de (Werner Icking) writes:
>In <1992Sep22.223549.1596@TorreyPinesCA.ncr.com> lms@TorreyPinesCA.ncr.com (Max Stern 310-524-6152) writes:
>
>>In article <15180@mindlink.bc.ca> Mike_Quigley@mindlink.bc.ca (Mike
>>Quigley) writes:
>>>[...]
>>>Didn't Ernst Toch write something like this? I think he did a piece called the
>>>Geographical Fugue which had excerpts from a road map...
>
>>The Geographical Fugue is a piece for six (if I remember correctly)
>                                       four (standard SATB)
>>voices, who recite (in German) the names of various geographical
>>locations like "der Fluss Mississippi," Brindisi, etc.  It is entirely
>>spoken, so the main musical elements are rhythm, counterpoint,
>>dynamics, and form.
>
>I have an LP which contains: "Fuge (aus?) der Geographie". It's a set
>of two LPs from the Lockenhaus 1982 Festival which is organized by
>Gidon Kraemer et.al. The B-side of the 2nd LP contains a lot of musical
>jokes, the last of them is Toch's Fuge.
>
>The best piece is "Meditation" (JSB & Gounod) played by Franz Xaver
>Ohnesorg (Luftpumpe - bicycle pump?) and Oleg Maisenberg (Piano).
>I do not understand how FXO was able to continue playing while the
>audience was shaked from laughing (you understand my english?).

There is a new Philips CD of Lockenhaus Encores (called, I believe,
just that) which may contain several of these pieces.  It may, in
fact, be identical to the set you describe.

>
>Werner
>--
>Werner Icking           icking@gmd.de            (+49 2241) 14-2443     __o
>GMD - Gesellschaft fuer Mathematik und Datenverarbeitung mbH          _`\<,_
>Schloss Birlinghoven, P.O.Box 1316, D-5205 Sankt Augustin, Germany   (_)/ (_)
>                             "Der Dativ ist dem Genitiv sein Tod." ~~~~~~~~~~~
From: rwilmer@zinka.mitre.org (R. Wilmer)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Bruno Walter's Mozart recordings, Giulini
Date: 28 Sep 92 18:43:47 GMT
Organization: Mitre Corporation, McLean, VA

In article <BvAuF3.EDv@news.udel.edu> conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad) writes:
 >In article <1992Sep28.055358.18626@cmcl2.nyu.edu> tony@cns.nyu.edu writes:
 >
 >>If you like the style, I'd also commend highly the Giulini/NPO coupling
 >>of Symphonies 40 and 41, available on London's cheap Jubilee label.
 >
 >Absolutely.  One of the first classical records I bought in college, and
 >still one of my favorites.  What color and drama Giulini makes this
 >music reveal.  (One of my first remembered bits of revulsion at those
 >with an anti-humanly "pure" idea of Mozart came when I read an American
 >Record Guide review of Giulini's "Don Giovanni" in which the *ssh*l*
 >reviewer said something like "Giulini elicits too wide a range of color
 >and accent for Mozart."  [That was in 1964.]  *Too wide* a range of
 >color, excuse me?)


And how beautifully Giulini conducted the A major piano concerto
in the televised recording he made with Horowitz.

(It took me a while to fill in the ****s describing the
purist record reviewer.)  

Richard
From: rwh@visual.com (Rob Holzel)
Subject: Re: Mahler 1
Organization: Visual
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 92 13:00:28 GMT

> I've heard that the new Tenstett (spelling?) C.S.O. live recording on
>Angel/E.M.I. is just incredible.  Any advice?

I'm a Tennstedt fanatic, but I must count myself as a detractor on this
particular release.  It isn't anywhere near the level of his recent
Mahler Fifth.  I think the Bernstein you already have is much better.

Rob


Xref: sparky rec.music.classical:13822 rec.music.misc:24608 rec.music.makers:10041
From: rlk@underprize.think.com (Robert Krawitz)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical,rec.music.misc,rec.music.makers
Subject: Re: INformation on VIOLA..
Date: 5 Oct 92 12:15:19
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge Mass., USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: underprize.think.com
In-reply-to: icking@gmd.de's message of Mon, 5 Oct 1992 11:40:15 GMT

In article <icking.718285215@gmd.de> icking@gmd.de (Werner Icking) writes:

	      a good violinist,
	       a bad violinist,
	    a former violinist,                     <========
(A violinist who has seen the light)
   and one who hates violinists.
--
ames >>>>>>>>>  |	Robert Krawitz <rlk@think.com>	245 First St.
bloom-beacon >  |think!rlk				Cambridge, MA  02142
harvard >>>>>>  .	Thinking Machines Corp.		(617)234-2116

Member of the League for Programming Freedom -- write league@prep.ai.mit.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dbrooks@penge.osf.org (David Brooks)
Subject: Re: Speaking of leitmotifs
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: 27 Sep 92 22:04:02

In article <92270.214000KSSHC@CUNYVM.BITNET> Ken Sherrill <KSSHC@CUNYVM.BITNET> writes:
>I haven't the Solti Ring on CD, but I think that you are referring to the
>Redemption Through Love theme -- which I recently learned also had a second
>name, something like Brunnhilde the ________. (Can someone fill in the blank?)

Is that the same theme that is called "I Have a Love", in West Side Story?
That song is pretty clearly lifted from the figure that closes
Goetterdammerung. 

How about a thread that identifies the borrowings in WSS (or did we do that
before)?
--
David Brooks					dbrooks@osf.org
Open Software Foundation			uunet!osf.org!dbrooks
Four more months!  Four more months!
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: rchrd@netcom.com (Richard Friedman)
Subject: Re: Karlheinz
Organization: Applied Parallel Rsrch (Berkeley)
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 16:35:48 GMT

smoliar@argon.iss.nus.sg (stephen smoliar) writes:

>I have only acquired three of the discs, mostly to satisfy my curiosity on
>a few counts:

>	3	Elektronische Musik 1952-1960
>			Etude			ORTF
>			Studie I		WDR
>			Studie II		WDR
>			Gesang der Juenglinge	WDR
>			Kontakte		WDR
>			 (just the electronic material)

>	4	Kontra-Punkte
>		Zeitmasze
>		Stop
>		Adieu

>	20	"Am Himmel wandre ich . . ."

How does the transfer to CD sound, especially for the
electronic works.  Also, comment on the printed material.
I understand that KS has supplied some additional notes
for these releases.
-- 
/\=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=/\
\/Richard Friedman (510)528-7055  |  rchrd@netcom.com    
/\Applied Parallel Rsch (Berkeley)|                          /\
\/=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=\/

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical