From: ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti)
Subject: Re: Koenigsberg/Kaliningrad
Organization: University of Jyvaskyla, Finland
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 07:25:39 GMT

>
>Well, historical claims are double-edged things.
>Shouldn't we consider returning Finland to Russia instead?

1809 Finland fell under a Russian administration after a
war. As a result 1939-45 wars again , this time just a part of
Finland fell under a administration of SU.

>
>Seriously, Finland's government is better than its citizens in
>understanding that territorial claims in the modern world will
>practically inevitably lead to bloodshed. Don't you consider
>the experience of Yugoslavia, Abkhazia, Karabakh, South Ossetia,
>Gaza Strip, Penjab et al sufficient enough to never make the
>same mistake again? It's quite wise of Yeltsin to discourage
>any such attempts for the sake of claimant's well-being.
>Russia is a big country and has more agressive nationalists
>than entire Finland's population, though, God the witness, Russians
>are less nationalistic than any European nation. Nationalism
>is an earmark of small nations feeling vulnerable facing
>seemingly imminent dissolution in an overwhelmingly big nation.
>Not the case with Russians who are willingly blending with other
>nationalities having no fear of ethnical dissolution. To find
>a "pure" Russian is far more difficult task than to find a
>"pure" ex-Soviet Jew or Finn or (name YF small ethnic group here).
>Anyway, don't wake the sleeping bear. It's bigger than you can
>imagine.
>
I rally sometimes wonder are the russians not at all tired of the wars
because they have had them quite plentiful during this century. Still
I can read even in this net boasting how dangerous we the russians are.
I would like to ask how many years of peace Russia/SU has had during
this century, when Russia/SY has not had involved in a war outside
the Empire or inside of it. Cannot the russian people connect
the level of living with the everlasting wars at all?


>In article <1992Sep3.094059.13701@jyu.fi> ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti) writes:
>>I am not at all interested in America, it is not interesting like Russia.
>
>Ah, russophobic blues. Why didn't you emigrate to Russia?

I use to visit as often I can Karelia and I am interested in to
help for instance the fathers of the town Sortavala. I even once
suggested to come and consult but they did not take me very seriously
because they want to make the mistakes.
You see russofobia even there where there is not. 
>
>>That is why
>>I am deeply concerned that you will loose your russian roots in America. 
>
>Jews aren't real minority in US.
>
I was writning and asking about the russians in US not jews.

>>How the russians keep russian culture alive in America?
>
>Well, concerning Russians -- my wife got baptised here in US (her
>God father is count Tolstoy -- no less!). At least, the Russian
>Orthodox Church is well alive here. There are numerous Russian
>communities in Alaska (which was a Russian province before it was
>leased to America and not returned to the Bol'sheviks).
>
>>The task can be very difficult compared to Estonia which
>>now is so HORRIBLE place for the russians.
>
>I guess it's not much better for Estonians. Fascist government
>separating citizens by blood will eventually start seprating them
>by political attitudes. Hitler's example is well-known.
>
You seem to not know anuthing about Estonia. 
The first free elected governemet in the area of former SU you
call faschist!!!??? I call that soviet propaganda
of the old style. It seems to be weel and kicking.
To mix into this even Hitler is more ridiculous.

If the estonians try to clean the heritage of communist system =
nazi system or alike it called ethnic opression, faschism etc.
What are the muslims expelling russians from Cenral Asia for you,
also nazis? For me this all is decolonialization process and
a very normal and the most civilized way it is done until now
in Estonia where everything goes democratically, people are not
killed etc. like in Caucasus,Central Asia,Moldova you name the places.
It is ridiculous to call the estonians in this kind of situation
fashists. Are you an old style commie , which still lives
of the commie propaganda?



>>Sometimes I am about bursting
>>into the tears when reading all those hardships our neighbours the russian
>>mates/excomrades face in Estonia & Baltic states.
>
>You'd better think of the future of a small country which has
>no natural resources or high-technology and is going to aggravate
>the neighbor country (which basically is their only reliable
>market and source of supplies) by their mindless ethnic policy.
>
Well  if you look closer  Europe the small countries can offer
the best standard of living for their citizens than big countries.
For example Iceland,Finland,Norway etc. you can see that the small size
seem to be also a factor for the hight standards.
That is very well know in the Baltic countries. The big size of
the country does not lead automatically to a high standaed of
living for their inhabitants. In fact in places like Luxembourg,
Monaco,Andorra the standard of living is higher than their big neighbours
have. So will go the process in the Baltic states too.


>C'mon. Do you really think the American aid makes any real difference
>for Russia? The West is simply unable to provide relevant amount of
>aid. Moreover, there is strong opposition in Russia to getting any
>aid at all. The real purpose of the loans is to get Western economy
>more involved in operations in Russian markets and therefore stimulate
>closer intergration of the closed-loop ex-Soviet economy with the
>world economy.

I am not fan of american help given for Russia. And not a fan of american
culture in genarally. I think the russians had to be careful with that
and turn more to Europe. 

>
>As for Finns -- your example seems to support the popular in Russia
>opinion of Finns being, well, dumb. "Chukhna" is the word.
> 
I know this chukna very well. I do not find it bad because all neighbours
have their names in Europe, it is quite normal. We have nick-names
for the swedes and russians and their have theri own of us. 
The belgians are objects of french jokes, friisians of german jokes,
finns in norwegians jokes...you find that everywhere in Europe.
A book made to laught best was a norwegain joke-book about the Finns.
We may write similar about them??
If in russian "folklore" etc. the Finns are considered dumbs it does
not mean that the Finns are dumbs. We have similar "images" of the russians,
swedes etc. but it does not mean that they are that and that.

>>The thankfulness will be immense in Moscow when someone notices that there
>>is at least one peace of the Empire's border where people are
>>not whining more land and lebensraum.
>
>Or to get in the neighbor's pockets (which is essentially the same).
>
EX Soviet Union in on debt for Finland  6 milliard Finnish marks.
(SU companies for the Finnish companies actually.) So???

>>BTW, I red that (Source World Almanac) there is 101 mill. russian
>>speakers in Europe.  On a second place there is the german speakers and
>>they were 92 millions. 
>
>Russians were involved in trading with Europe for hundreds of years.
>I don't find it surprising that French was a household language
>of Russian aristocrathy and there is a rather big population of
>ethnic Germans in Russia.
>

Jarmo Ryyti
>>(Redy to consult)
>
>What? Moya tvoya ne ponimaiy.
>
>--vadim


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