HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: walker@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Graham Walker, 227 West Old Main,268-3847,)
Subject: Re: FYI - Politics in NI
Organization: Clarkson University
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 16:13:10 GMT

From article <1992Sep2.141447.21832@dcs.qmw.ac.uk>, by mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach):
> 
> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  the Protestants
> are descended from English-speaking settlers so the language is
> not part of their cultural inheritance.
> 
> Matthew Huntbach

I do not want to sound like a pedant on this point (but I am going to
nevertheless), but the settlers of which you speak were mostly Scots,
and if the point is push it can be argued that originally they can from
Irland in the 500s(?), therefore Irish Gaelic is part of their
inheritance also (even though it was a little further back).

													GW
Organization: Arizona State University
Date: Wednesday, 26 Aug 1992 19:36:51 MST
From: Dan Wilson <ATDYW@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Scots or Picts (was Celtic alchoholism?)
 <1992Aug10.161720.7217@news.clarkson.edu> <1992Aug24.022124.11164@cos.com>

Wasn't Robert de Brus' mother a Celt? I seem to recall he relied heavily on
his Celtic blood to gain the confidence of the Highland Chiefs that he
needed so deperately.
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Date: Tue,  1 Sep 1992 09:45:33 -0400 
From: Lori Cole <lc1r+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Celtic recordings

To add to Ed McGraw's useful compendium (sorry, I don't have label info here):

    Noel Hill & Tony Linnane (Mulligan Records)
    Martin Byrnes (this may be out of print, unfortunately but was on Leader)
    Tony MacMahon (Gael-linn Records)
    Billy McComiskey (Green Linnet Records)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: walker@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Graham Walker, 227 West Old Main,268-3847,)
Subject: Re: Celtic Cross
Organization: Clarkson University
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 18:44:50 GMT

From article <BtyI8s.JyB@unx.sas.com>, by sej@allspice.unx.sas.com (Samuel Johnson):
> 
> . . . . . . . . . . . . Also, this idea that religions that predate
> christ are somehow more legitimate, are simply ludicrous.
>
My point was the opposite, in that I questioned the assumption that religions
(christianity) that post-date other religions (paganism) are more "legitimate"
or "religious".
>
> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . If you read 
> the Bible (which I hope you do, or start soon) you will see that Christ
> can be found at creation {let us make man} as well as visiting the earth
> as a spirit well before he took on a bodily form as Jesus of Nazereth.
> I personally know of no religion that predates the begining of time.
> 
I believe that most people who have contributed to this discussion have
assumed that a religion "originated" when it started to the practiced
(all religions - I assume - would have an origin story and would
therefore claim to start at the begining of time).

																GW
From: swade@ocf.berkeley.edu (Wade Shen)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: FYI - Politics in NI
Date: 31 Aug 1992 16:59:12 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
NNTP-Posting-Host: sandstorm.berkeley.edu

If you are really interested in the topic, I can recommend
a book by Padraig O'Malley called _Uncivil Wars: Northern Ireland Today_
It discusses the various factions in the north including the SLDP, and the PIRA.
Much of the work is interviews with leaders of the Unionist and Nationalist points
of view, but there is also a lot of discussion in regards to the U.K. and Southern
Politics.

As far as I know, the population of N.I> is mostly English speaking.  Gaelic
speakers have tended to be catholic, and catholics make up a minority of the
N.I. population.
From: newt@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Michael Steven Newton)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: "Celtic" French, and Galicia
Keywords: French, Galicia
Date: 26 Aug 92 08:13:09 GMT
Organization: Glasgow University Computing Science Dept.


  The facts that I pulled out of the air were not entirely correct.
So, here is some excerpts from "The Celtic Revolution" by Peter
Berresford Ellis, which you'll have to dispute with him:

  It has been argued that the Celtic speech of Gaul did not 'disappear'
  and that a great deal of it simply incorporated into Low Latin which
  in turn emerged as French.  The Dictionaire General (1890-1900)
  admitted to 400 Celtic words in general use...  Celtic scholars
  Henri Hubert and Georges Dottin believed that a far more extensive
  Celtic vocabulary could be found in Low Latin and French...

  Galicia, which recieved a form of home rule within the Spanish state
  in 1980, is not a Celtic country.  This must be made plain owing to
  the confusion created by a curious programme broadcast in the Channel
  4 television series 'How to be Celtic' (Sept 1983) which made the
  claim for Galicia...

  The Galician language, which is now spoken by 80 percent of Galicia's
  two million population, and is being reintroduced into schools after
  nearly 50 years of ruthless persecution under Franco's Fascist
  state, is a Romance language. It derives from the same Hispanic dialect
  as Portugese...

  The only criteria for recognition of a Celtic people is a linguistic
  one.  Therefore, any adoption of the Galicians into the Celtic fold
  would be detrimental to the national claims of the genuine Celts...


  Unforunately I can't find the passage I read earlier about the flavor
of French in general...
From: newt@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Michael Steven Newton)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Celtic origins and female heroines
Date: 4 Sep 92 07:18:23 GMT
Organization: Glasgow University Computing Science Dept.

stacey@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu (Stacey B. Martin) writes:


>I'm taking a class this semester on the History of Ireland, and I'm astounded by
>the women in the Irish myths and epics. The most interesting thing to me is
>that Maeve, for instance, has so much power and she is not a goddess.

>I think if you read only the first chapter of "The Cattle Raid of Cooley," you'd
>be pleasantly surprised and amused by Maeve. She's something else. I wouldn't
>mind being her when I grow up. :-)

  Well, be careful about interpretations, esp with material like the "Tain".
It's not clear whether Maeve is a goddess representing the land, a historical
figure, a mythological avatar, a clustering of historical attributes, or
what.  Certainly she takes on mythological characteristics, being somewhat
representative of Sovereignty.
  However, she does nicely represent the strong positions of authority and
power which were *possible* (though not predominant) for women in pre-
Christian Celtic society.

  -- Mi/cheal
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: sej@allspice.unx.sas.com (Samuel Johnson)
Subject: Re: Celtic Cross
Originator: sej@allspice.unx.sas.com
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 15:12:28 GMT
Organization: SAS Institute Inc.


vlaad@brewich.hou.tx.us (Vlaad Thunarsson) says:

> (Yes, Evelyn, it is religious, and in Europe the religion in question is
> the worship of the Unconquerable Sun; it predates The Thing That Dripped
> Blood by a few thousand years).
  
I have sat by and read this celtic cross thread for a while now thinking
"Well, I'll finally learn the real origin of this symbol." Then I noticed
that the thread took a different turn: one of christianity bashing.
I'm not suprised at this, the current rise in such sentiment can be seen
everywhere in the states especially on the nightly news or television shows\
where any christian is automatically branded as a "right wing extremist
who refuses to accept anyONE who doesn't believe exactly as they do." 
THIS IS UNTRUE!!! Notice that ONE is capitalized. The true christian, 
who strives to be like Christ (hence the name) accepts other PEOPLE, but
does not necessarily accept their lifestyle. Instead people are encouraged
to fill the void in their life that is there because we are, at birth,
seperated from God.

>A friend of mine suggests that, after you take away all that is Pagan 
>from xtianity, all one has left is a dead rabbi on a stick...

In any case, I think it is interesting that anyone who wants to can make
fun of christianity or christ as in the "dead rabbi on a stick" comment
and be left alone, but let any christian speak up an they are immediately
dubbed a stupid radical. This is unfortunate because that "dead rabbi on
a stick" died on the cross so that you might have eternal life and have
life on earth more abundantly.

Anyway so as to not be too long winded, I close with the argument that
although many pagan practices may be observed by "the church" (mainly
through ignorance), they are not practiced with the same intent as the
pagans themselves would. Also, this idea that religions that predate
christ are somehow more legitimate, are simply ludicrous. If you read 
the Bible (which I hope you do, or start soon) you will see that Christ
can be found at creation {let us make man} as well as visiting the earth
as a spirit well before he took on a bodily form as Jesus of Nazereth.
I personally know of no religion that predates the begining of time.

Yours in Christ,

Samuel 

"For God so loved the world that he gave his only son that whoever
would {accept him and his ways} would not perish {spiritually} but
live eternally."
-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Samuel Johnson        SAS Institute Inc. (919) 677-8000 x6264
 Computer Graphics     SAS Campus Drive      
 sej@unx.sas.com       Cary, NC 27513      

   "MENE, MENE, TEKEL, UPHARSIN..."  Does anybody see?
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic,soc.culture.french
From: cockburn@edieng.enet.dec.com (Craig Cockburn)
Subject: Internet access to Minitel in France
Organization: Digital Equipment Co. Ltd., Reading, England
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 07:32:46 GMT


Thought this might be of interest to readers here

Maybe we could get some more Breton speakers onto the net?

Craig

Article: 476
From: johannes@i11s11.ira.uka.de (Johannes Feulner)
Newsgroups: alt.internet.services,alt.internet.access.wanted
Subject: Re: Gateway to Minitel? (and BTX)
Date: 31 Aug 1992 12:56:23 GMT
Organization: University of Karlsruhe, FRG


In article <827@ozz.oasis.icl.co.uk>, ppg@oasis.icl.co.uk (Philippe Goujard) writes:
|> Peter.Gorny@arbi.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de (Peter Gorny) writes:
|> 
|> >thomson@fluky.mitre.org (Duncan Thomson) writes:
|> 
|> >>Does anyone know how to get from the internet to/from the French
|> >>MINITEL network?

There is a Gateway between the French MINITEL network and its German pendant
BILDSCHIRMTEXT (BTX). And there is also a Gateway between BTX and the Internet
which is operated by FUN!, a BTX service provider. As far as I know its
still in an experimental phase and will go on the air next January.

The Gateway offers telnet, ftp and usenet access.

The address of FUN! is:

	FUN! GbR
	Klaus Nahr/Internet
	Schuetzenstr. 11
	D-7500 Karlsruhe 1 
	GERMANY

	FAX/PHONE: (49)721-359763
	EMail:     klaus@pf.sub.org

Johannes
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Craig Cockburn, Digital Equipment Co. Ltd, Reading, England.     Suas
  Internet: cockburn@edieng.enet.dec.com                           leis
  UUCP:..!decwrl!edieng.enet.dec.com!cockburn                      a'
                                                                   Gha\idhlig!
  Views here are my own, and are not necessarily those of Digital
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Civics test for Irish citizenship?? Is there one?
From: dresler@cabell.vcu.edu (Dan Resler)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 12:21:39 GMT
Organization: Virginia Commonwealth University

oconnell@vms.macc.wisc.edu (Kevin Patrick O'Connell) writes:

>Is there some basic body of knowledge that newly naturalized Irish 
>citizens need to master, as is required of immigrants to the US?? 

No. For an American to become a naturalized Irish citizen, you
simply have to be resident for a minimum of 5 years, get 2 (3?)
people to swear you're an OK person, and then pay your money (it
seems like it was ~200 pounds, but that might have been for a couple).
The forms are turned in at the local Garda station and your
references are checked out. After your check clears (in my opinion,
the most important part of the exercise from the Irish government's point of
view), you must go before a local (district?) judge and swear your
allegiance to the State. Within a month or two you get a nice piece of
paper written in Irish saying you are now a European citizen.

And you can be both a U.S. citizen and a naturalized Irish citizen,
but the U.S. government frowns on it.

Dan Resler

Dept. of Mathematical Sciences
Virginia Commonwealth University
Richmond, VA 
USA 23284-2014

Xref: sparky soc.culture.celtic:5625 sci.physics:13639 sci.misc:1514
From: sichase@csa3.lbl.gov (SCOTT I CHASE)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic,sci.physics,sci.misc
Subject: Re: Impure Mathematics
Date: 27 Aug 92 01:33:22 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory - Berkeley, CA, USA
Distribution: na
Reply-To: sichase@csa3.lbl.gov
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.254.198
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4   

In article <1992Aug26.220526.9695@noao.edu>, muller@noao.edu (Beatrice Muller) writes...

>Well, I am sure you could use mathematical terms in a funny way without
>reference to rape. Rape is never funny or cute!

Please post a list of all topics which are forbidden as subjects of humor.
That way, when you become God I'll know when to keep my sense of humor
under wraps.

-Scott
--------------------
Scott I. Chase			"The question seems to be of such a character
SICHASE@CSA2.LBL.GOV		that if I should come to life after my death
				and some mathematician were to tell me that it
				had been definitely settled, I think I would
				immediately drop dead again."      - Vandiver
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: walker@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Graham Walker, 227 West Old Main,268-3847,)
Subject: Re: Celtic origins and female heroines
Organization: Clarkson University
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 14:28:35 GMT

From article <skenny.715518886@femto.engr.mun.ca>, by skenny@pico.engr.mun.ca (Shawn Kenny):
> newt@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Michael Steven Newton) writes:
> 
>>>followed by the Victorian Mythmakers...and despite the Valkyries there
>>>are no really good female role models for those of us who constitute 51%
>>>of the world.... 
> 
>>   This is something I think Celtic mythology and history provides a lot
>>   of good examples of: Boudicca, Meave, Dierdre, Macha, Epona, Bri/d, etc.
> 
> There is also Fiacal (Warrior) and Bodball (Druidess), these two women
> are related to the myth surrounding Fionn son of Cumaill.
> --

If anyone is further interested in the female side (interpretation) of
the pre-christian celtic culture, I recommend "Women of the Celts" by
Jean Markel (sp?).   

														GW
From: mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Celtic Cross
Date: 2 Sep 92 08:40:33 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept, QMW, University of London, UK.

From: walker@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Graham Walker, 227 West Old Main,268-3847,)
>halloween, and the 1st of May (the fertility festival) became the day of
>Saint Joseph the worker, which then became the internationl labour day

The feast of St.Joseph the Worker was introduced by the RC
Church after the socialist movement had already made May Day a
worker's festival. Taking a charitable viewpoint, you could see
it as an attempt to express Church solidarity with the workers'
movement. In any case, it's not a traditional Church festival.

Matthew Huntbach
From: sharkey@robots.ox.ac.uk (Paul Sharkey)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: 3000th victim
Date: 28 Aug 92 09:21:39 GMT
Organization: Robotics Research Group, Engineering Science Dept, Oxford, UK.
Originator: sharkey@othello.robots

With the media hounds waiting ghoulishly like ambulance chasers for
the 3000th person to be killed since the "start" of the Troubles, they
were rewarded by the IPLO with a brutal slaying of a Catholic who was
travelling on a bus. Other passengers, including children, dived for
cover as 10 rounds were fired, striking the man in the head and chest.

Some snippets that I heard this morning:

From the local SDLP MP: ... gangsterism ... 
 
From the sole survivor (despite 18 bullet wounds) of the busload of
Protestant workers slaughtered a while back: talked about the kids
growing up not knowing anything else but terrorism ... "they're
killing off a whole generation. What will they (terrorists) do when
the next generation comes along, kill them too? ...

From the BBC: ... if the same figure (3000) were translated to the GB
it would correspond to about 95,000 (or was it 195,000?)


From me: The murder of a Catholic by the IPLO as the 3000th victim and
thus as a focus for worldwide media attention was, in some ways,
apposite.  It highlights the tit for tat, murder for murder's sake,
nature of the gunmen. All to protect their own patch of turf, and
maintain their own percentage of the protection rackets, smuggling,
armed robberies, drugs profits, plus the money laundering businesses.


"Erin go bragh" and all that . . . sure. But without the violence.


Paul.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul M Sharkey                      Phone:  +44 (0)865 273 150
Robotics Research Group             Fax:    +44 (0)865 273 908
Dept Engineering Science            
Parks Road, Oxford OX1 3PJ          Email:  sharkey@uk.ac.ox.robots
From: smckinty@sunicnc.France.Sun.COM (Steve McKinty - Sun ICNC)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: FYI - Politics in NI
Date: 2 Sep 1992 12:38:39 GMT
Organization: SunConnect
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: hardy.france.sun.com

In article <31AUG92.10125231@enh.nist.gov>, downey@enh.nist.gov writes:

	> How important are Celtic symbols in NI?  Is Irish spoken or
	> taught much in NI?  These are just a few questions that popped
	> into my head while I was watching the show.
	> 
	> Laura Downey
	> downey@enh.nist.gov

Irish is taught in the Catholic (church-run) schools in NI, and I believe it
is a recognised exam subject in the same way French & German are. From 
talking with schoolfriends from those schools (many years ago) I think it
was compulsory up to about age 15, and optional after that. I don't know
if that has changed in recent years.

Public enquiries in NI are required to accept submissions in Irish in some
circumstances, although the only time I've seen that used is when an
objector wishes to be deliberately obstructive, since it requires translations
of the documents to be made available, and interpreters for spoken discussion,
thus delaying the whole proceedings.

I doubt if there are any people in NI who speak only Irish, and few who
speak it fluently. When I worked in Belfast those of my colleagues who
had been educated in Catholic schools could remember Irish in the same way
that the rest of us could remember French, a few fragments of learnt-by-rote
verbs, but that was about all.

Steve
From: edch14@castle.ed.ac.uk (R V P Flood)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: camping in ireland
Date: 27 Aug 92 11:48:08 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

There are plenty of places that are sufficiently remote for backwood
camping in Ireland. The best places for mountains and forests (my
opinion) are Wicklow (following the Wicklow Way route) and around the
Gap of Dunloe near Kilarney in Kerry. Alot if not all the property you
traverse is part of state forests where you offically are not allowed to
camp but from my experience if you are careful (ie no fires or damage to
the surrounds) you won`t get any grief from locals or officals. 

For more remote places (ie wide open spaces etc) Galway and Donegal are
the best (again my opinion). 

A major misconception about Irish mountains is that they not dangerous
because they are not of the alpine variety or terribly high - be warned
plenty of people die on them every year. I have seen some mountains with
snow on them from December through to April even in Wicklow.

Hope this is of some help

                        Rob....
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: caj@sei.cmu.edu (Carol Jarosz)
Subject: Re: Birthday bumps
Organization: The Software Engineering Institute
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 20:50:34 GMT



|> > giving somebody the "bumps" on their birthday.
|> > 
|> > Does this happen anywhere else?  I'm not even sure if it
|> > happens elsewhere in Ireland.
|> > 
|> > George V. Reilly   <GeorgeRe@Microsoft.Com>


|> My children (born in USA) have not heard of this.
|> 
|> Chris Benson whose email address is apparently under construction.
|> I will post my email address when I know it,
|> but try ...!sgilab!bazooka!cbenson instead of ...bazooka!cbenson
|> 

We have a version of the birthday bumps here(USA), but not as involved as
other places.  We would usually get hit/punched on the arm for every year and
then get pinched (to grow an inch).  It doesn't tickle, especially when
someone hits you in the same place, but I don't think it hurts as much as "the
bumps".  OUCH!

Carol
caj@sei.cmu.edu
From: dfair@octel.com (Donald Fair)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Celtic Cross
Date: 3 Sep 92 16:30:12 GMT
Organization: Octel Communications Inc., Milpitas Ca.

In article <1992Sep3.090633.4243@dcs.qmw.ac.uk> mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach) writes:
>From: dfair@octel.com (Donald Fair)
>>        This may belong in net.religion or something, but isn't
>>        True that some believe that the trinity concept
>>        was added to appeal to the celtic peoples because
>>        they tended to believe in gods/goddesses in sets
>>        of three, and that the promotion of Mary in the
>>        church was added to appeal to the celts who always
>>        had a mother figure as one of their three. I know
>>        the christian trio does not include a female.
>
>More silly romanticism which wants to see swords-and-sorcery
>style celticry everywhere. Most of the debates which defined
>the position of the Trinity took place at the other side of the
>Roman Empire from where the Celts were. Do you really suppose
>that people in Egypt, Syria and Turkey would have indulged in
>endless debates and fighting which has led to lots of little
>Christian groups still spread all over the Middle East, just to
>please a few barbarians on the western fringes of Europe?
>
>Matthew Huntbach

	Huh???
	Where is the mention of swords or sorcery? When
	have the peoples of the middle east not fought
	endlessly over almost any religious ideal.
	My question centered on a question of history
	in hopes that I would get facts.
-- 
_____________________________________________
Donald H. Fair       Software Sanitation Eng.
dfair@octel.com     "They're all small when 
standard disclaimer  They're blue." papa smurf 
---------------------------------------------