HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: privette@frodo.colorado.edu (Jeff Privette)
Subject: Re: Clinton Space Position
Organization: Colorado Center for Astrodynamics Research
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 22:26:44 GMT

In article <1992Jul29.130035.18031@news.Hawaii.Edu>, annis@hale.ifa.hawaii.edu (James Annis) writes:

|> so faded is just that George Bush has been extraordinarily good for
|> both the defense and civilian space program. His administration
|> keeps putting money and political capital into the programs.

I think your analysis was a fair one among the sea of politically slanted
posts by others.  However, in Bush's
January State of the Union address ( his "defining moment of the presidency"),
Bush vowed to cut back funding on some 200-odd projects that he could legally
do w/out Congressional approval.  I thought I remembered someone noting that
one project cutback was the extension of the Magellan mission?  Is this true?
If so, then I would modify the above statement as Bush perhaps has perhaps been
great for shuttle/man in space/lunar base/mars base but rather serendipity
on space *science*.




   
Newsgroups: talk.politics.space,sci.space
From: rspear@sookit (Richard Spear)
Subject: Re: Facility Tours
Organization: Image Analysis Systems Group, JPL
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 17:32:31 GMT

jpl is free but tours should be arranged with the public information
office


--
richard
rspear@sookit.jpl.nasa.gov
all disclaimers apply
Newsgroups: talk.politics.space
From: seds%cspar.dnet@Fedex.Msfc.Nasa.Gov
Subject: Re: Clinton Space Position
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 21:14:00 GMT

In article <1992Jul26.090837.14750@news.Hawaii.Edu>, annis@hale.ifa.hawaii.edu (James Annis) writes...
>seds%cspar.dnet@Fedex.Msfc.Nasa.Gov writes:
>>> 
>>>>-Bill Clinton on America's Space Program
> 
>>Right again. Look at the proposed transfer of funds from space station. None
>>of it goes to unmanned exploration. It all goes to Veterans and quote "other
>>science projects"
> 
>That wasn't in the position "post" I got. 
> 
>It sounds rather like the plan the current space station foes in congress 
>are putting together in order to rally a kill. Are you sure you're not 
>mixing the origins? In other words, I'd love to have a reference.
>--
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>James Annis                                annis@galileo.ifa.hawaii.edu
>Institute for Astronomy    University of Hawaii, Honolulu, Hawaii USA 
>----------------------------------------------------------------------

They are for all practical purposes the same. Clinton, if he wanted to really
support space like he says would as the supposed head of the democratic party
ask the congress critters to modify their positions to one that is more in
line with the party's election platform.

Truth is that he will do no such thing.  As Paul Harvey said last week, Clinton
is a sacrificial lamb. If he does not get in it paves the way for Cuomo in 96
and if he does win the election he will do just exactly like congressional 
democrats and the special interests tell him to do, just like Jimmy Carter did.

The democratic party of the White House is seperate from the political party of
the democrats in congress and it has been that way since the demise of LBJ.

I wish it were different. I don't like either of the candidates and have not 
conclusively made up my mind yet, but it is simply wishful thinking that a 
Clinton Administration will support unmanned space exploration at the expense
of SS Freedom

Dennis Wingo, University of Alabama in Huntsville
From: privette@frodo.colorado.edu (Jeff Privette)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.space
Subject: Re: Throw Congress out the airlock!
Date: 30 Jul 92 21:54:10 GMT
Organization: Colorado Center for Astrodynamics Research

In article <3134@bcstec.ca.boeing.com>, hall@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Robert J. Hall) writes:
|> 
|>   IMO, it now appears that the writing is on the wall for not only space
|> station, but possibly the entire manned program. The Democrats, who control
|> congress and the NASA purse strings, appear to be increasingly anti-space

|>  Anyway, that's my $0.02 worth. Flame away, ye of flatulent disposition.

Well, okay.  From what I have heard and read, most efforts to kill Space
Station are bipartisan.  Just this morning (07/30), NPR replayed an
eloquent speech by a *Republican* chastising pro-Space Station Congress critters
for falsely claiming the Station could be used effectively/economically
for such things as cancer research, etc.  One sentence was something to the
effect of, "If you want to do cancer research, throw $1B to the Nat. Health
Inst., don't blow it on a laboratory in space that won't even achieve your
goals."  

Fact is, there are plenty of Democrats *for* Space Station (obviously -- it
enjoys great popularity in the Senate) and plenty of Republicans *against*
it.  Both Clinton and Bush are for it.  The same pork-barrel you (and I)
criticize was probably what saved Fred since its dividends are spread out
across so many states.

In light of this, you don't seem to be commenting on the fate of the Space
Station, but rather just venting a personal party preference (no matter
how misguided it may be :) )
From: David.Anderman@ofa123.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: talk.politics.space
Subject: Bush on space
X-Sender: newtout 0.01 Jul 13 1992
Date: 30 Jul 92  08:09:42

I concur that Bush was *great* on the Shuttle/Space Station - but he couldn't 
bring himself to continue to support the CRAF program, even though the cost of 
that program was minimal compared to the Johnson Space Center programs, and
the rewards from CRAF may have been substantial.
 
Bush and his folks talked well about the Space Program, but in the final
analysis, their actions essentially duplicated those of the Reagan
Administration - support for big programs that would have to be funded heavily 
only after they left office.

--- Maximus 2.00
Newsgroups: talk.politics.space,sci.space
From: robichau@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov (Paul Robichaux)
Subject: Re: Facility Tours
Reply-To: robichau@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov
Organization: New Technology, Inc.
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 16:10:12 GMT

In <MeP1saa00Uzx81jWZT@andrew.cmu.edu> tw1t+@andrew.cmu.edu (Theodore Wadsworth) writes:

>Does anyone know the charges for tours of the various NASA facilities
>(Huntsville Space Center, "Space Camp", ...)?

The US Space and Rocket Center (a commercial enterprise) operates
Space Camp; I don't know how much the various camps cost, but they do
have an 800 number.

The Space and Rocket Center also has a nifty museum, an IMAX theater,
and a _very_ good bus tour of Marshall Space Flight Center facilities.
$11.95 adults, ~$6 kids. 9am-5pm, 7 days a week, all year except
Christmas (they _are_ open on Easter!)

A happy and frequent visitor,
-Paul
-- 
Paul Robichaux, KD4JZG          | I shouldn't bitch / I shouldn't cry
robichau@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov   | I'd start a revolution but I don't have time.


Newsgroups: talk.politics.space
From: ddavey@iscp.bellcore.com (Doug Davey)
Subject: Re: Clinton Space Position
Reply-To: ddavey@iscp.bellcore.com
Organization: Bell Communications Research
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 01:45:46 GMT

In article <Bs498B.4DI@zoo.toronto.edu>, henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes:
> In article <1992Jul28.143654.17945@walter.bellcore.com> ddavey@iscp.bellcore.com writes:
> >...I would respectfully ask that those who neither pay the taxes
> >nor vote in the elections kindly refrain from posting politcal analyses
> >of political statements from the USAian election campaign...
> 
> Political analyses?  Heaven forbid.  I don't understand US politics well
> enough to analyze them. :-)  I was merely translating some of the Clinton
> position from campaignspeak (which is as international as graft, stupidity,
> shortsightedness, and voter ignorance and apathy) into the sci.space
> vernacular.  I wasn't making any attempt to read between the lines or infer
> an overall position -- just pointing out what the statement's own words
> clearly mean.  Do you really think any of my translations are wrong?

Henry,
Please note that I didn't challenge your translations.  In fact, I believe
they are accurate.  What I challenged was what I saw as an inappropriate
attempt to influence another country's politics.  (An infraction of which
the US has, er, occasionally, been guilty itself. :-) ) However, now that
you have moved the discussion to talk.politics.space and out of sci.space
(where it never belonged).  I'm persuaded by the argument put forth by
games@max.u.washington.edu (John) (see below) that you have an obligation
to humanity (Jeepers! I hope I never have one of those) to post your  
analyses, whether they are political or technical.

In article <1992Jul28.121753.1@max.u.washington.edu>, games@max.u.washington.edu writes:
> As an affected party, Mr. Spencer certainly has the right to comment upon
> the platforms proposed by the parties.
> 
> And if you don't like the above logic, then as an "expert" commentator in the
> field, he has not only the right, but the duty to comment upon the platforms,
> in order to help clarify what they mean for the rest of us who choose not to
> take quite as much time deciphering the reading between the lines.

-- 
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
  Doug Davey        ddavey@iscp.bellcore.com         bcr!iscp!ddavey
From: dlp@fido.caltech.edu (Deborah L. Padgett)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.space
Subject: Bill Clinton's daughter pro-space ?
Summary: Quote from July 27 Space News
Date: 29 Jul 92 02:22:01 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: California Institute of Technology


    The July 27 issue of Space News quotes Bill Clinton as saying (p. 18) :

"I am the grandson of a working woman, the son of a single mother,
the husband of a working wife who makes a lot more than I do. 
I am the father of a daughter who wants to build space stations in the sky."

    
   Does anyone have further information about his daughter's interests
or background ?  It would be interesting to know just how much pro-space
sentiment is in his family.  Anyone on the net know more ?

                                        Karl Stapelfeldt
                                        dlp@fido.caltech.edu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.space
From: annis@hale.ifa.hawaii.edu (James Annis)
Subject: Re: Clinton Space Position
Organization: Institute for Astronomy, Hawaii
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 09:08:37 GMT

seds%cspar.dnet@Fedex.Msfc.Nasa.Gov writes:
>> 
>>>-Bill Clinton on America's Space Program

>Right again. Look at the proposed transfer of funds from space station. None
>of it goes to unmanned exploration. It all goes to Veterans and quote "other
>science projects"

That wasn't in the position "post" I got. 

It sounds rather like the plan the current space station foes in congress 
are putting together in order to rally a kill. Are you sure you're not 
mixing the origins? In other words, I'd love to have a reference.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
James Annis                                annis@galileo.ifa.hawaii.edu
Institute for Astronomy    University of Hawaii, Honolulu, Hawaii USA 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: talk.politics.space
From: dumoulin@titan.ksc.nasa.gov (Jim Dumoulin)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.space,sci.space
Subject: Re: Facility Tours
Date: 23 Jul 92 09:31:13 EST
Organization: NASA, Kennedy Space Center

In article <MeP1saa00Uzx81jWZT@andrew.cmu.edu>, tw1t+@andrew.cmu.edu (Theodore Wadsworth) writes:
> Does anyone know the charges for tours of the various NASA facilities
> (Huntsville Space Center, "Space Camp", ...)?
> 

    The visitor center at the Kennedy Space Center is free of charge
    and is open from 9:00am to 7:00pm everyday except Christmas and
    some launch days.  Bus tours of the KSC and CCAFS launch complexes
    are available for a nominal cost (around $4) as well as some IMAX
    movies.  The visitor center contains a large display of Space hardware
    and a "Rocket Garden" consisting of many of the vehicles launched from
    KSC.  A full scale walk-thru mockup of the Space Shuttle is also
    available.   Contact Spaceport USA Visitor Information Center at
    (407) 867-1566 for more information.
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
   Jim Dumoulin                      INTERNET: DUMOULIN@TITAN.KSC.NASA.GOV
   NASA / Payload Operations      SPAN/HEPnet: KSCP00::DUMOULIN
   Kennedy Space Center
   Florida, USA  32899
From: bval@ilws61 (Valentine Bob)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: stones over the wall
Date: 29 Jul 92 06:26:12 GMT
Organization: Intel
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4


> = David Sternlight  


>I believe bob's analogy comparing the Palestinians with the North
>Vietnamese leading to the conclusion that the Intifada will eventually
>success is badly flawed and that his conclusion can thus not flow
>by analogy.

[deleted section on Palestinian dependence on Israel for jobs]

[deleted section pointing out the Palestinians inability to get
 weapons comparable in quality to those of the Israelis]

Of course, you are correct. The situations are too different to
compare.

My point was that, with the exception of Jerusalem, Israel is divided on the
value of "fighting" for the West Bank / Gaza. The "security / traditional
homeland / (other?)" motivations for staying are not as compelling as the
reasons for not staying. 

I don't believe the Palestinians are divided on whether to continue their
struggle or not, this land is all they are going to have, its
all they've got, and they want it.

So however imbalanced in weaponry and however imbalanced the losses in
the struggle, the Palestinians will stay in it, and, eventually, the
Israelis will tire of it as the U.S. did of VietNam. 


Which is not to say that real negotiations leading to autonomy leading to
statehood will not be a successful conclusion to the Intifadah. 



>By the way, an interesting corrolary of the conversation is that the
>Palestinian claimed that most Territory Palestinians were so linked to
>Israel economically that if there were a mutually acceptable
>settlement (and perhaps the dust settled for a few years) an attack on
>Israel by other Arab countries would be so inimical to the
>self-interest of the Palestinians that they would side with Israel,
>and help defend against the aggressor.

>Although some may find such a statement surprising, it's at least
>worth noticing.

>David Sternlight        David Sternlight Inc.        email:analyst@netcom.COM


Similarly, there is some commerce flowing across the Jordan and Lebanese
borders, as well as laborers coming into Israel from Lebanon every day.

One would hope that the ties that exist between the peoples of the region
will be enough to motivate a peace and to swiftly mend wounds once peace
has been agreed upon.

Bob
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: rivk@quads.uchicago.edu (nora gayle rivkis)
Subject: Re: U.S. territories vs. Israel territories
Reply-To: rivk@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 17:02:46 GMT

In article <1992Jul30.015256.29117@anasaz> scott@qip.UUCP (Scott Gibson) writes:
>In article <1992Jul29.143532.1796@oakhill.sps.mot.com> diaz@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Rafael Diaz) writes:
>>
>>  Could somebody explain why is it O.K not to have presidential 
>>  voting power in U.S. territories?

>All that Puerto Rico requires to gain congressional and presidential
>voting power, is to petition for statehood.  In other words, the power
>to gain the vote is in their hands.  They have _chosen_ not to use
>it.
>
>I'm surprised you didn't point out Washington, D.C.  As a federal
>district, Washington's citizens are similarly restricted in their
>federal voting priveledges.  Why?  Because they aren't a state.

Yes; and unlike the Puerto Ricans, they've asked to be a state, repeatedly.
So while they may fit the limited-autonomy model (they have a mayor, even
if their recent one was slime), they are certainly occupied against their
will.

>Scott Gibson                   {ames!ncar!noao!asuvax,mcdphx}!anasaz!qip!scott

	-Nora
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Palestinians killed in the occupied territories..
From: drori@gumby.Altos.COM (Ghiora Drori)
Date: 28 Jul 92 16:27:36 GMT
Reply-To: drori@altos.COM (Ghiora Drori)
Distribution: World
Organization: Altos Computer Systems, San Jose, CA


This is from a local Hebrew News paper "Hayey LA"
Special from Haretz:

Since the beginning of the Intifada 769 residents of the territories
have been killed by the IDF. 566 residents where killed by the
residents. 39 Israelis where killed.
15469 Palestinaians where wounded, 5,457 Israeli's were wounded. 
These numbers are according to the IDF chief prosecuter Ilan Shief.
...
From: murray.bbs@cybernet.cse.fau.edu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Sinai/Taba (was: Withdrawl from Territories)
Date: 25 Jul 92 23:53:56 GMT
Organization: Florida Atlantic University, Boca Raton

> the middle of the desert, it didn't bother anyone and the Egyptians could
> most definitly let it stay. It should be clear that if and when Israel
> withdraws from the west bank, this pattern should not return.
> 
Let us all hope this will never happen.

              ==========================================
                | We want to be troubled no more by Arabs;|
                |          room to breathe;               |
                |    a skyline cleansed of them           |
                |                                         |
                |      Franz Kafke, Jackals and Arabs     |
                ===========================================
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Iraq/Kuwait border dispute?
From: Radu Eugen Edelstein <re0x+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 00:24:35 -0400 
Organization: Masters student, Information Networking Institute, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Yossi writes:
I heard that there are currently discussions on where the border between
Iraq and Kuwait should lie. From what I hear the Kuwaitis demand that some
land that used to be part of Iraq before Aug 2nd should be part of Kuwait.
Apparently, the US supports this claim.


I say:
Iraqis signed that land off at the end of the "mother of all...".
It is thus land that, according to international legislation,
belongs to Kuwait (as war reparation).
Rad
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: nyh@wpi.WPI.EDU (Nevo Y Hed)
Subject: Re: FACTS EVERY ISRAEL BASHER MUST AVOID!
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 05:54:41 GMT



Before I start - my original claim was ignored by Yigal - he did not
show that throwing stones o\ver the wall is justified reaction to the
forbiden rally.

In article <22003@venera.isi.edu> arens@ISI.EDU (Yigal Arens) writes:
>I'm sorry Mr. Nevo, but *you* have apparently not looked at the video --
>at least not carefully enough.  First, it does not show any person
>actually throwing stones, it shows stones being thrown from behind the
>wall on the Haram side and landing on the other side of the wall.
>Second, it does not show the stones coming down on people -- in fact,
>they didn't.  Everyone had already left the western wall area before the
>stone throwing started.  You couldn't have missed the fact that there
>were no injuries -- certainly an amazing thing to have (not) happened if
>such a shower of stones really fell on the 30,000 people who some
>Israelis falsely claim were present at the time.

While the number of people seen in the video was small I dont see why
any part of my original argument should be voided.  I dont have a copy
on me - maybe we saw different versions [I think I saw it on CNN].   I
am pretty sure then showed the stone throwers - and who did the police
[located at the plaza] shoot at?  Worshipers or stone throwers - Arens
please answer.

>Now the Israeli propagandists justify their need to fire on the Arabs by
>the need to protect the people being supposedly showered with stones.
>Now that we realize there were actually no people in any such danger, we
>see that somebody was lying.  What else is new?

You saw noone at the time of stone throwing?  I am pretty sure I have
seen them - not in the thousands but they were there [not at the time
when some got arrested].

	-Nevo
-- 
Nevo Y.	 Hed              nyh@wpi.wpi.edu
++1-508-754-2491          CS student, Worcester Polytechnic Institute.
"I like my cigar too, but I take it out of my mouth from time to time" G.Marx
From: davidba@carmel.technion.ac.il (David Ben_Ami)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: territories vs the territories
Date: 21 Jul 92 19:25:30 GMT
Organization: Technion, Israel Inst. of Technology

In article <21981@venera.isi.edu> arens@ISI.EDU (Yigal Arens) writes:
>In article <0eOrGre00WB28UcXJa@andrew.cmu.edu> re0x+@andrew.cmu.edu (Radu Eugen Edelstein) writes:
>>
>> Hallam writes:
>> I think that it is more enlightening to consider that no member of the
>> security council recognises the Israeli annexation of Eastern Jerusalem
>>
>>
>> I say:
>> According to what I know, the US does recognize Eastern Jerusalem as
>> part of Israel.  It is Jerusalem's status as capital of Israel that
>> the US has problems with.  I think someone recently posted something
>> similar to what I am saying.
>
>I'm afraid you know wrong.  The US does not even recognize western
>Jerusalem (i.e., the part taken by Israel in 1948) as part of Israel.
>I've mentioned in the past that the US State Department will not record
>a person's country of origin in a passport as 'Israel' if they were born
>in Jerusalem.
>--
>Yigal Arens   "He seems like an average type of man.  He's not, like, smart.
So according to Jim Baker and Mag Tatweiler I am not an Israeli then
:-))

I think that only proves American Hypocricy regarding Jerusalem and 
Israel's rights in it. They totally ignore the cultural, historical
and political rights of the Jews in Jerusalem.

David "Born in Jerusalem" Ben-Ami. 
-- 
=============================================================================
  David Ben-Ami (irc: bigdav)      |   "I can resist anything but Temptation"
  s2780369@Techst02.Technion.Ac.Il |       Oscar Wilde
  davidba@Carmel.Technion.Ac.Il  davidba@Moav.Techniona.Ac.Il
From: rdtst+@pitt.edu (Richard D. Thorne)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Radio Host Fired After Jewish Prote
Date: 30 Jul 92 21:43:50 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

| ...devoid of facts. Well was I right or was I right?
| 
| Phill Hallam-Baker

    What does that have to do with any thing you've ever said.  Anyway
    you'll let us know when you're right.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast