HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: farenebt@craft.camp.clarkson.edu (Bri Farenell ("Droopy"))
Subject: Could Charlottetown happen in the US?
Keywords: Charlottetown, US
Organization: Clarkson University
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 00:23:03 GMT

I am relatively familiar with the Charlottetown accord
(for an American anyways). Anyways, I was wathcing last
night a CBC special on the week (?) in which the Charlottetown
treaty was negotiated and I thought the whole process was
fascinating. I was amazed how civil the premiers were to
each other. Bourrassa, Rae, Obeid Mercredi all seemed civil
to each other even despite their differences. I realize that
there was some animosity like Clyde Wells and the Manitoba
PM (I only saw the last 45 minutes of it though) but all in
all, you didn't hear much part rhetoric. Being an American,
I was expecting a process like that to be acrimonious and
squabblesome but they all acted like leaders... something we
Americans sorely lack. I honestly doubt that anything the
magnitude of a new constitution could ever be worked out
with such foresitght and leadership given the present
state of American politics. I waz certainly impressed
with Canadians. (although I still hate your hockey :)
============================================================================
BRI FARENELL			    "If you choose not to decide, you still have
FARENEBT@CRAFT.CAMP.CLARKSON.EDU        made a choice."  --RUSH ("Free Will)
CLARKSON '95			 	   
A politically incorrect, pro-life, liberal, card-carrying member of the ACLU.
===========================================================================
CLINTON/GORE FOR PRESIDENT		DAVE ROBERTS FOR CONGRESS (NY-24TH)


Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,can.politics
From: CZ94 <CZ94@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA>
Subject: Method of choosing Senators (was Re: I was going to ...)
Organization: McGill University
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 14:31:00 GMT

In article <1992Oct06.224026.38189@bas-a.bcc.ac.uk> uctlxpd@ucl.ac.uk (Peter Bartlett) writes:
>
>Thanks; this is starting to make some sense.  But does it mean that the
>method of appointment/election of senators is not going to be specifically
>written into the constitution?  As a lawyer, that strikes me as a rather
>bizarre outcome, and as someone trying to follow the politics, I find it
>hard to believe that the west would go for "unwritten rules" as to the
>appointment of senators (that's what we have now, after all!).
>
>Or is it expected that a different system of election will be in effect
>in each province?  Surely what in fact will happen is Ontario and BC will
>use what in my Globe and Mail Draft is labelled section 7 paragraph 1, and
>elect senators within the legislatures, using their majorities in their
>assemblies to get the result they want?
>
Yes, it appears that the constitution will not specify how Senators
are to be chosen, and different provinces will use different methods
of choosing them.  The common opinion is that election by the
provincial legislature will be used by Quebec, because the provincial
government wants to be able to claim to be the sole legitimate
representative of Quebec opinion, and directly-elected Senators
might threaten this position.

In most other provinces, Senators are expected to be directly elected.
I don't know how gender equality is to be enforced in the provinces
that choose to do so.  I would guess that there would be two
separate ballots, one for 3 male Senators, and one for 3 females.

Tom Box
CZ94@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA
From: uctlxpd@ucl.ac.uk (Peter Bartlett)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
Subject: Re: Does Canada sell immigration permits?
Date: 15 Oct 92 12:46:04 GMT
Organization: Bloomsbury Computing Consortium

bkt@blacks.jpl.nasa.gov (Barrie Trinkle) writes:

>Today's Wall Street Journal has an editorial by Gary Becker (who
>won the Nobel Prize in economics yesterday) touting the advantages
>of an immigration system in which permits are auctioned.  He
>cites Canada as an example of a country which currently sells permits,
>"although in a partial and elitist fashion."  Does anyone know what he
>means?  Are immigration permits available for money in Canada, and if
>so, for how much and to whom and under what conditions?

Presumably, he is referring to the investor categories of immigrant.
Essentially, if you have lots of bucks you are prepared to invest
in the country, we let you in.  (I don't have my immigration texts here;
if memory serves, when I left the country in '89, the price was about
$ 1/4 million).  We also (by tradition, not law) let you jump any
administrative queue, and let you apply from within the country (occasion-
ally requiring you to take a fast trip to Buffalo or some other 
border city, so the inconsistency with the Immigration Act doesn't 
appear TOO blatent.  You head down for the weekend, and your documents
are waiting for you.  Immigration lawyers call this a "Buffalo shuffle".)

Similar provisions apply if you have somewhat less bucks, but can 
demonstrate that you will be running a business which will hire
Canadians when you get here.

peter.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
From: bross@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Brian J Ross)
Subject: Re: Why can't I vote?
Organization: Dept of Computer Science, Brock University
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 20:37:06 GMT

dekoning@frcl.bull.fr (Gerard de Koning) writes:
: The information I received from the Canadian embassy in Paris, is as follows:
: 
:  Canadians, who come from Quebec and are temporarily living abroad, 
:  may vote in the referendum.
: 
:  Canadians, who come from the rest of Canada and are temporarily living abroad,
:  may NOT vote in the referendum.
: 
: Apparently, this has something to do with provincial referendum legislation
: taking precedence and Quebec was the only jurisdiction to remember those
: living abroad.
: 
: If this is correct, this is totally unacceptable.  For a national referendum,
: all Canadians should have an equal right to participate.  And for a long-term
: issue, such as the constitution, those Canadians who expect be return to Canada
: have as much interest as anyone in the future of the our country.

Sounds like asymettrical federalism to me.   :-)


-- 
Brian Ross                         "I fell into some ice and your scientists 
bross@sandcastle.cosc.brocku.ca     thawed me! Your modern world frightens and
                                    confuses me!" -- Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer
Xref: sparky soc.culture.canada:7285 can.politics:8197
From: audetf@Software.Mitel.COM (Francois Audet)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,can.politics
Subject: Re: The Accord and BC
Date: 8 Oct 92 13:01:00 GMT
Organization: Mitel. Kanata (Ontario). Canada.

In article <BvM9pn.5Fu@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca> dbowman@gorgon (Don A. Bowman) writes:
>Currently Health Care is federally funded through transfer payments. This
>means that the feds collect the money through income tax, and give some
>back to the province. 

Not exactly true. It's 50% funded by the federal government, 50%
funded by the provincial governement (at least, that's the way it is
in Quebec). It is 100% administrated by the provincial government.


-- 
                                                       Francois Audet
                                                           '
        Telephone: (613) 592-2121 x1754     Facsimile: (613) 592-4784
                          Internet: Francois.Audet@software.Mitel.COM
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
From: robinson@mdivax1.uucp (Jim Robinson)
Subject: Re: U.S.A. vs Canada (was: Re: TO ALL CANADIAN WHO LIVE IN TORONTO!!)
Reply-To: robinson@mdd.comm.mot.com (Jim Robinson)
Organization: Motorola - Mobile Data Division; Richmond, BC
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: 9 Oct 92 20:52:05 GMT

Eric Tholome (tholome@bangalore.esf.de) wrote:

>Since some of you are comparing the U.S.A. and Canada, I thought I'd ask
>you the following question: it seems generally admitted that Canada (on
>average) is a better place to live than the U.S.A. (on average again.
>Please no comment, this isn't the question yet!).  But what about
>California? I've spent quite some time in several different places in the
>U.S.A. and lived a year in California (near SF). Well, it seemed to me that
>California was really far above the average American state, especially
>around SF. Unfortunately, I've never been to Canada (but I'm sure I'll make
>it soon). Therefore I'd like to know how you, netters, would compare
>California with Canada, especially with the West Canadian Coast (Vancouver,
>...). In other words, when Mark Bartelt quotes his visitors saying about
>Toronto: "it's a much nicer (and more fun) place to live than whatever (US)
>cities they're currently living in", has he had this reaction from people
>living in the Bay Area of SF?  And if it turns out that, YES, Canada is
>even better than California, well, I'll take the next plane! :-) >

SF is one great city, and I could probably live there fairly happily.
Santa Cruz also seems nice, although a bit small.  However, Southern CA is,
IMHO, an entirely different matter. I lived in Brea & worked in Fullerton
(Orange County) for two years and I can't say enjoyed it very much. If you
like suburbs (and suburbs, and more suburbs, and malls) than you will like
where I was. If you don't well.... Also, I found that for a sizable
percentage of the people I met, the (negative) Southern CA stereotype
really did apply. 

I really enjoy where I live now (wrt scenery, people, available activities,
weather) and would probably only consider moving if I could not satisfy
career objectives here. However, having said that, if I were to move, it
would probably be to somewhere on the west coast: Seattle, Portland, SF
area.
-- 
Jim Robinson
robinson@mdd.comm.mot.com
{ubc-cs!van-bc,uunet}!mdivax1!robinson

Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
From: de@cray.com (Duane Eitzen)
Subject: Re: What about the Canadians?
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 14 Oct 92 13:24:43 CDT

In article <Bw2sKH.DG@ireq.hydro.qc.ca> beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca (Denis Beauregard) writes:
>One thing that may happen (more likely than splitting Montreal City):
>Quebec would keep the Canada name and symbols.  After all, the first time
>Canada word was used to define a geographical place, it was in 1535 by
>Jacques Cartier and defined Quebec City.  Maple leaf was proposed by
>French Canadian nationalists (to use the then vocabulary) to replace
>the Union Jack.  The same way, the O Canada (original version) was to
>replace the God Save the King (if it was a king at that time.  Or was it
>Vicky?  Then it replaced God Save the Queen).
>
>So, it Quebec keeps her symbols (OK, we can drop the beaver) which,
>anyway, symbolise the central Canada, what will happen to:
>Canucks (from Canada)
>Maple Leaf (renamed Trillium Power?)
>
>Someone suggested (in the 1865's?) to call it Borealia (i.e. Northland, just
>like Australia is Southland).  In this case, the Canucks would be renamed
>the Boreals.

I think TROC would keep the maple leaf and the name Canada. Perhaps Quebec
would keep them too. There would undoubtbly be some people on both sides
who think it is inappropriate for the other side to use the symbol and name,
but you can't really stop a sovereign nation from calling itself whatever
it wants. Surely there are more important things to fight over.

Duane.
From: v064myby@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Christophe J Quaranta)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
Subject: Kids in the Hall
Date: 7 Oct 92 15:38:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41


	Kids on CBS?  Great!  I thought their material was a little too
raunchy for US tv.  Even on CBC they cut out a lot of the stuff that's
shown on HBO. 
	BTW I think the show has gone downhill in the past 2 years.  Scott
Thompson may be gay, but he doesn't do a good 'fag.' NO FLAMES PLEASE!!
						
						Latre,
						Chris
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,can.politics
From: bh419@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ted B Samsel)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
Subject: T.O O.k
Date: 8 Oct 1992 11:00:05 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


  We really liked Toronto...I'd like to see more of Canada.
-- 
Ted....
From: maennig@fred.informatik.uni-dortmund.de (Olaf Maennig)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
Subject: What is the referendum about?
Date: 12 Oct 1992 11:51:09 GMT
Organization: CS Department, Dortmund University, Germany
Distribution: world
Reply-To: maennig@siggi.informatik.uni-dortmund.de
NNTP-Posting-Host: fred

Hi, people!

I'm a German reader of this newsgroup, and due to a server problem I could
not read this group for a while.

Now, I read all the statements about the referendum, but I have not got what
it is about, and what the people has to vote for or against.

Could anyone tell the _facts_ to me shortly?

Thanx in advance.
	Olaf
-- 

 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     _                   Department of Computer Science IV
    / \     |\/|         University of Dortmund, Germany
    \_/laf  |  |aennig   e-mail: maennig@siggi.informatik.uni-dortmund.de
 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
Subject: Re: Does Canada sell immigration permits?
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 14:29:01 GMT

In article <1992Oct15.124604.20828@bas-a.bcc.ac.uk> uctlxpd@ucl.ac.uk (Peter Bartlett) writes:
>bkt@blacks.jpl.nasa.gov (Barrie Trinkle) writes:
>
>>Today's Wall Street Journal has an editorial by Gary Becker (who
>>won the Nobel Prize in economics yesterday) touting the advantages
>>of an immigration system in which permits are auctioned.  He
>>cites Canada as an example of a country which currently sells permits,
>>"although in a partial and elitist fashion."  Does anyone know what he
>>means?  Are immigration permits available for money in Canada, and if
>>so, for how much and to whom and under what conditions?
>
>Presumably, he is referring to the investor categories of immigrant.
>Essentially, if you have lots of bucks you are prepared to invest
>in the country, we let you in.  (I don't have my immigration texts here;
>if memory serves, when I left the country in '89, the price was about
>$ 1/4 million).  We also (by tradition, not law) let you jump any
>administrative queue, and let you apply from within the country (occasion-
>ally requiring you to take a fast trip to Buffalo or some other 
>border city, so the inconsistency with the Immigration Act doesn't 
>appear TOO blatent.  You head down for the weekend, and your documents
>are waiting for you.  Immigration lawyers call this a "Buffalo shuffle".)
>
>Similar provisions apply if you have somewhat less bucks, but can 
>demonstrate that you will be running a business which will hire
>Canadians when you get here.
>

It should be remembered that this constitutes a very small portion of
the total immigration to Canada...Canada has a proportionally much
higher immigration rate than the US, and most of it in "family" class
immigration (currently the what constitutes "family" is way to broad,
and the definition should be narrowed to a spouse and non-adult children,
and more of the immigration shifted to the independent class).

The so-called investor class constitutes less than 10% of Canadian
immigration.

Gerald
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
From: nick@sunburn.uwaterloo.ca (Nick Fitzpatrick)
Subject: Re: Registration for the Referendum from outside the country
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 21:18:12 GMT

In article <BvtAH7.JwL@casper.cs.uct.ac.za> gds@cs.uct.ac.za writes:
>cpaulse@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Chris D Paulse) writes:
>
>>How do I register for the referendum from here in Ohio?
>
>Can Canadians residing outside Canada (even permanently) also vote 
>in this referendum?
>-- 
>Riel Smit,  Computer Science                              gds@cs.uct.ac.za
>University of Cape Town                      gds%cs.uct.ac.za@rain.psg.com

No they can not.  (We should make this a FAQ)  (We should MAKE a FAQ :-)

Unless they are Quebeckers, in which case they can!  (Though, it is
probably far too late, they have already sent me my ballot).

(The Quebec referendum, which was set up first, is being done under
Quebec law).  Everybody else is voting under federal law.  The question, 
and date, is the same.

Nicholas Fitzpatrick

Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,can.politics
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
From: migod@turing.toronto.edu (Mike Godfrey)
Subject: Re: TO ALL MISERABLE CANADIANS IN TO!
Organization: CSRI, University of Toronto
Date: 15 Oct 92 13:11:49 GMT

In article <1992Oct14.204500.1@summer.chem.su.oz.au> piton_m@summer.chem.su.oz.au writes:
>Dear disgruntled (yes, that's probably you!):
>
>Well, I've got to say that I'm deeply disappointed.  All this bullshit about
>anti-US, anti-Toronto, anti-French, anti-blah-blah-blah, stuff on the 
>board.  Can't anyone be positive about things anymore?  

How about those Blue Jays, eh?

>In Toronto, my wife and I were paying over
>$1000/mo for a little one bdrm apartment while in Sydney -- which everyone
>who's never been here says is so expensive -- we have a gorgeous two bedroom
>townhouse (a terrace home, here, mate) for less than $C700/mo (at a higher
>wage than in TO and Van.).  Milk was $6 for 4 litres.  Has TO gone crazy?
>I hope I have, sometimes.

The bottom has dropped out of the real estate/rental market in Toronto.  
The building I'm living in is nice, new, clean, right downtown and we're 
having problems filling 2 bedroom apts at $850 per month -- too many luxury 
condos are sitting unsold and the owners are renting them out Real Cheap.
We buy our milk for $3.29 / 4 litres at the corner store.  

-- 
Mike Godfrey	          "I will not expose the ignorance of the faculty.
Dept of Comp Sci, UofT     I will not expose the ignorance of the faculty."
migod@turing.toronto.edu			   	-- The Simpsons

Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,can.politics
From: robinc@bnr.ca (Robin Collins)
Subject: Re: I was going to vote yes, BUT NOW ....
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada
Date: Thu, 08 Oct 92 14:11:34 GMT

In article <1992Oct08.101358.44714@bas-a.bcc.ac.uk> uctlxpd@ucl.ac.uk (Peter Bartlett) writes:
>huots00@DMI.USherb.CA (SYLVAIN HUOT) writes:
>
>>--> Francophone senators.
>
>>Francophone senators is different of Quebec senators.
>
>>Anyone that say "Je suis francophone" will be considered a 
>>"Francophone senator" ????
>
>Actually, no, not exactly; but you're right, it's pretty iffy.  The draft
>says:  "On entering the Senate, Senators should be required to declare
>whether they are Francophones for the prupose of the double majority 
>voting rule.  Any process for challenging these declarations should be
>left to the rules of the Senate."
>
>Whatever that means...


In either case, the clause is racist as hell.
Why not pre-select Senate seats for skin colour and gender too?
Frank.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
From: bross@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Brian J Ross)
Subject: Re: Registration for the Referendum from outside the country
Organization: Dept of Computer Science, Brock University
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 18:22:12 GMT

gds@casper.cs.uct.ac.za (Riel Smit) writes:
: cpaulse@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Chris D Paulse) writes:
: 
: >How do I register for the referendum from here in Ohio?
: 
: Can Canadians residing outside Canada (even permanently) also vote 
: in this referendum?

I've heard that Quebecers residing abroad can vote in the referendum, but 
other non-resident Canadians cannot.  You should consult a Canadian consulate 
to find out for certain.

-- 
Brian Ross                         "I fell into some ice and your scientists 
bross@sandcastle.cosc.brocku.ca     thawed me! Your modern world frightens and
                                    confuses me!" -- Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
From: godfrey@sscvx1.ssc.gov (LAURENCE GODFREY)
Subject: Re: TO ALL CANADIANS
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Organization: Superconducting Super Collider Laboratory
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 00:18:00 GMT

In article <1992Oct12.202959.23218@morrow.stanford.edu>, silva@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Holly Silva)   writes...
>(Anthony Maillard) writes:
>>This really makes me sick.   Let's address it this way....
>	
>	You are the second jerk, M. Maillard, who assumed Sir Laurence
>Godawful to be an American _despite_ his explicit statement to the contrary.
> 

I have not been knighted, and I think it is rather unlikely to happen
as the Queen and I have not seen eye to eye since I wrote about one of her
sons' A'level results about 10 years ago.

I quite like the Godawful though - quite funny for Hollyier_than_thou
Silva, whose failure once again to have anything sensible to say apparently
means that we're all in luck
>======================================================================
>|| Holly Silva			I have nothing terribly clever to say||
>|| Applied Earth Sciences	today.  You're in luck.		     ||
>|| Stanford University						     ||
From: bob1@cos.com (Bob Blackshaw)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
Subject: Re: Mike Godfrey
Date: 14 Oct 92 13:57:28 GMT
Organization: Corporation for Open Systems

In <13OCT199219354076@sscvx1.ssc.gov> godfrey@sscvx1.ssc.gov (LAURENCE GODFREY) writes:



>I feel sorry for poor Mike Godfrey, who people keep confusing with me.
>I (Laurence) am the "idiot" who loathes Canada, Mike is the person who
>seems to like it over there.  As far as I know, neither of us is an American,
>though i frequently wish I were.  I do not think we are related.

Funny, we sure don't wish that. We already have enough problems.

>Laurence

Bob.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
Subject: Re: Constitutional powers
From: Steve.Withers@bbs.actrix.gen.nz
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 11:11:27 GMT
Organization: Actrix Information Exchange

In article <Bw02JD.5zB.1@cs.cmu.edu> clamen+@CS.CMU.EDU writes:
> 
> Here's a tricky question for you net.constitutional experts:
> 
> 
> What are the powers/responsibilities of the Prime Minister of Canada,
> as outlined in the Constitution Act, 1867 and the Constitution Act,
> 1982?

If it is anything like the 1867 B.N.A. Act, Cabinet, Ministers and the Prime
Minister do not exist in law. They are conventions....no legal entities.
 
I would be interested to know if this has changed.
 
Steve
-- 
Steve Withers - Wellington, New Zealand | On Sept. 19th, 88% of NZ voters opted
Steve.Withers@bbs.actrix.gen.nz         | for proportional representation. It
withers_s@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz            | looks like we may get a more  
**** Happy user of OS/2 v2!! ****       | democratic system "real soon now".