HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gtaylor@vme.heurikon.com (Gregory Taylor)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Sunday morning music selection
Date: 22 Jan 93 18:57:54 GMT
Reply-To: gtaylor@vme.heurikon.com (Gregory Taylor)
Distribution: na
Organization: Heurikon Corporation, Madison, WI

dmilette@mudhead.uottawa.ca (Denis Milette) writes:
>Just like the title says, would anyone suggest me a few music
>selections for any given sunday morning? You all know the perculiar
>atmosphere that day carries while sipping your morning coffee.
>As you gaze with an uncertain eye your backyard, wondering as to why
>in fact you woke up!

This sure won't show up on the "dead white northern European men with
their dues paid in the club of High Culture" list, but Jolanda and I
are particularly fond of Brian Eno's "Music for Airports." In a strict
sense, the music doesn't really go anywhere, and neither do we. Works
best with enough sunlight to illuminate the clouds from that first 
cup of coffee. Having the sun break through the clouds in time with
the little snippets of melody or sound that play hide and seek is strictly
optional, but desirable.
--
The leveling weight of music and weather/closes the stores, drives the people
underground/into cool rooms under ducts and water pipes./There are ways to
prove the logic of whatever happens./In a movie, the darkness between each 
frame proves it./Gregory Taylor/Heurikon Corporation/Madison, WI/608-828-3385
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: apter@fid.morgan.com (Steve Apter)
Subject: Re: Public Service Announcement
Organization: Morgan Stanley & Co., New York, NY
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 22:08:02 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.220345.10128@fid.morgan.com> apter@fid.morgan.com (Steve Apter) writes:
>
>PS:  On inspecting my treated copy of the Tennstedt/Kennedy Beethoven
>Violin Concerto, I do notice slight marks around where the lighter-
>fluid was applied.
>


However, since Tennstedt's contribution to this performance was not
affected, I've decided not to replace the disk.


Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: naras@cda.mrs.umn.edu (B. Narasimhan)
Subject: Re: BMG December catalog query
Organization: University of Minnesota - Morris
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 14:48:58 GMT

You have to watch your step with BMG.  If you are not
careful, they'll slip one by you.  I have had this
happen to me numerous times.  Of course, when I call them
or write them pointing out the errors, they always say, 

 Oh! yes, you can have this and that free, and we are 
 happy to provide this special service for you.

Special, my foot! If they weren't staffed by incompetents, or
people quite unaware of the Encore offerings or promises,
I wouldn't have the problem in the first place.

-- 
B. Narasimhan                             naras@cda.mrs.umn.edu
Division of Science and Math.
The University of Minnesota at Morris
Morris, MN 56267
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: Classical Music for modern instrument (was Re: The shortest distance between two chords is...)
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 17:49:42 GMT

In article <CB.93Jan22135705@tamarack13.timbuk> cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster) writes:
>Chris Robson writes:

>   As to your point about classicly trained musicians not projecting their
>   training into rock - well isn't that what being idiomatic is all about?
>   I have in mind Joe Jackson, a supurb musician, who has produced work in
>   many different idioms. I don't expect him to use the same harmonies in
>   his 'punk' works as in his '40s swing work.
>...
>     What really turns me off though is bands which use the 'classical'
>   genre (whatever that is) as phallic extensions - (I won't mention
>   ELP by name as I don't want to be flamed).

>I guess since I sounded snobbish, I was risking being misinterpreted.  I wasn't
>thinking of those awful attempts to sound classical in pop (Moody Blues with
>London Symphony and so forth).  I see no reason why idiomatic pop couldn't use
>wider technical resources.  

They do!  Just not in the realms of composition.  After all, pop is not
primarily composed music in the sense that a string quartet is; they don't
all go into the studio or on stage with sheet music.  

>As I said, as far as chords per se, pop sometimes
>does break out of its straitjacket, but for harmonizing voices, never.

Even there, I'd disagree.  Is the memory of CSN so dim?  But, again, 
carefully worked-out part-writing is not the stuff of an ensemble
improvisation, which is the basic technique of rock composition.  
(Much variation, mind you.)  And since it's not a polyphonic
genre -- popular vocal music never has been, to any great extent --
I wonder why you use this as a standard.

Roger



Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: ted@dgbt.doc.ca (Ted Grusec)
Subject: Re: Shostakovich's 8th
Organization: The Communications Research Centre
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 93 01:11:53 GMT

In article <Jan27.231849.46136@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> hurben@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Mike Hurben) writes:
>  I just picked up the Haitink recording of the 8th, and I am quite stunned.
>I really don't know what to make of some of this - the 3rd movement scares
>the hell out of me!  I guess that is the whole point of this piece, but I
>am curious about other impressions, namely about the final minutes of the
>last movement...

If you want to believe this, some of his "biographers", and others,
say he was consciously trying to convey the horrors of Stalinism in
that movement.  Despite this, it's a magnificent work.
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Ted Grusec - Communications Research Centre, Ottawa, Ont., Canada
Internet: ted.grusec@crc.doc.ca - (613) 998 2762 - Fax (613) 993 8657
From: alves@calvin.usc.edu (William Alves)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Define "Well Tempered"
Date: 25 Jan 1993 10:31:34 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: calvin.usc.edu

In article <1993Jan22.190740.16225@Princeton.EDU> roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig) writes:

>In his [Bach's] time
>it was near impossible to implement true equal temperament; the one he
>used had the advantage of feasibility.

Being one who used to regularly tune harpsichords in equal temperament
by ear, what does this mean? It's true that most well- and meantone
temperaments are far easier and less time consuming, but equal tempera-
ment is hardly "near impossible."

(But thanks for the correction to the previous poster re: Bach's alleged
use of equal temperament.)

Bill Alves


Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: Jim Moy <jbm@gr.hp.com>
Subject: Music at end of "Grand Canyon"
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d17
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 16:07:58 GMT
X-Xxdate: Fri, 22 Jan 93 16:09:16 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Greeley Hard Copy Division

Can anyone tell me what the orchestral music is at the end of
the movie "Grand Canyon" (Kline, McDonnel, Glover, et.al.) while
the credits are rolling?

Jim Moy
jbm@gr.hp.com
From: gr@st-andrews.ac.uk (Gavin Ramsay)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Mahler 7
Date: 25 Jan 93 11:10:41 GMT
Organization: St. Andrews University, Scotland.

In article <1993Jan25.015317.8848@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> jcm2w@kelvin.seas.Virginia.EDU (John Clarke Mccanless) writes:
>In article <RM0WB3L5@cc.swarthmore.edu> rbrooks1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Robert Brooks) writes:
>>Picked up the DG Bernstein Mahler 7 yesterday from Philly Tower Records and
>>it completely blew me away (thanks Deryk ;-) ).  I saw the Horenstein too
>>but I'm afraid I fell into the digital trap in deciding which version to buy
>>(it's my first) although I do intend to pick it (Horenstein) up at some
>>point.  Anyone else want to comment on their favorite 7? 
>
>Why...YES! I'LL take a turn! (again! :) )
>
>I love this 7th, also,ut for some reason, perhaps Bud Herseth's amazing
>intensity (as principal trumpet), I like the Abbado/Chicago recording a
>hair better.  
>
>
>-- 
>John C. McCanless				jcm2w@virginia.edu
>
>"Genius!  Pure, unadulterated, GENIUS!!"  - Wile E. Coyote

Have you heard the new Rattle 7? For me, it beats even Berstein! 
gav
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: mvalinis@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Michael J Valinis)
Subject: Re: Music ruined by movies
Keywords: Rollerball
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 23:20:33 GMT

I'm not sure that anyone has mentioned this one yet, but what about 
"Rollerball", one of my favorite movies (no flames please!!).  It employs 
Bach's Toccata & Fugue in d and the Albinoni Adagio VERY effectively.
-- 

>+>  Michael J. Valinis   -=+<*>+=-   mvalinis@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu  <+<
=>+>      "The flute is not an instrument with a good moral effect.      <+<=
>=>+>=>               It is too exciting."  - Aristotle               <=<+<=<
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: rwh@visual.com (Rob Holzel)
Subject: Re: Music at end of "Grand Canyon"
Organization: Visual
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 12:01:16 GMT

All of the music, including the closing fanfare, was written 
especially for the movie by James Newton Howard.  You can get
it on the soundtrack CD.


Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: pking@alfred.carleton.ca (Peter King)
Subject: Gerald Finzi--Clarinet Concerto
Summary: Recommended Recordings--suggestions?
Keywords: Finzi clarinet
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 18:26:40 GMT

I'd appreciate suggestions as to the best CD recording at present
available.
The Hilton one seems highly recommended.
From: dozonoff@bu.edu (david ozonoff)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Greatest Discovery of '92--Take 2
Date: 25 Jan 93 00:57:13 GMT
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

Michael Wulfsohn (wulfsohn@sdac.harvard.edu) wrote:
: Gould and Laredo playing sonatas for violin/ viola and keyboard
: by Bach
:  
Yes. And don't forget the Leonard Rose/Gould sonatas for viola da
gamba in the same 2 disc set. Terrific performances.
--
Dave Ozonoff
dozonoff@med-itvax1
Boston University School of Public Health
80 East Concord St., T3C
Boston, MA 02118
(617) 638-4620
From: edente@pearl.tufts.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Music <<NOT>> killed by movies
Date: 27 Jan 93 19:54:49 GMT
Followup-To: rec.music.classical
Organization: Tufts University - Medford, MA

I hadn't thouIn article <terjer-270193113952@majestix.ifi.unit.no>, terjer@ifi.unit.no (Terje Rydland) writes:
> In article <1993Jan27.001756.1@pearl.tufts.edu>, edente@pearl.tufts.edu
> wrote:
>> 
>> A real rarity: A movie that is very nicely enhanced by the classical
>> music used in it, music that is integral to the movie and not window
>> dressing.  TRULY MADLY DEEPLY, a "small" British film about a pianist
>> getting along in life after her lover, a cellist, has died. 
> 
> Is this a film about Barenboim and du Pre?
> 
> 

> Terje Rydland

I hadn't thought of that parallel - it's an interesting one, but I don't
think it is meant to be. For one thing the genders are reversed, for
another it is in a way a "lighter" kind of film.  In a way like the
movie "Ghost", the cellist returns after death to try to help the pianist
get over her mourning for him.
Ed Dente
 e
From: eijkhout@cupid.cs.utk.edu (Victor Eijkhout)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Classical Music for modern instrument
Date: 24 Jan 93 20:39:56
Organization: /pearl/homes/eijkhout/.organization
	<1jpbt0$1fm@agate.berkeley.edu> <1993Jan23.033540.11775@colorado.edu>
	<Jan.24.02.13.23.1993.21034@ruhets.rutgers.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: cupid.cs.utk.edu
In-reply-to: bweiner@ruhets.rutgers.edu's message of 24 Jan 93 07:13:24 GMT

In article <Jan.24.02.13.23.1993.21034@ruhets.rutgers.edu> bweiner@ruhets.rutgers.edu (Benjamin Weiner) writes:

   It is a little bit hard to know what you are looking for.  How many modern
   instruments are there, after all?  The electric guitar in many ways is still
   just a guitar.  

And hardly anyone writes music for the ways in which an electric guitar
is a new instrument. I've heard exactly one piece (for elec. guitar and
brass band) where precisely the new possibilities were explored:
all the behind the bridge scrapings, ultra high harmonics, etc 
that are only possible with electronic amplification. The player
also had a dozen or so stomp boxes to mould the sound into something
that was nowhere near 'just a guitar' anymore.

   The electric bass is even less of a new instrument since
   one of its major raisons d'etre is simply that it is less of a pain in the
   ass to carry around.

I take offense! You can not separate the history of the mere
materials from the playing techniques that have evolved during
the lifetime of the instrument. On an electric bass you can play
harmonic slides, polyphonic tapped lines, hammering, and probably a
couple of techniques more that don't exist on upright.

   There's a Robert Christgau
   quote: "What the guys in [the band] U.K. don't understand is that it's
   not difficult to rock out in 7/4 time, or even impressive.  It's 
   impossible."

So what are the people on the Balkan doing when they dance around
on 7/8 time? Being immature? I heard UK when I was too young to
know odd metres, and I simply liked that music for the harmonies,
the violin solos, and the general swing (Rendez-vous 602 even made
the charts in the Netherlands; the 7/8 and 5/4 in that piece feel
totally natural).

And it *is* difficult to 'rock out' in 7/4 if by that you mean let the
flow of the music be intuitive. It took me a long time before
I could syncopate over the downbeat and hit odd accents in 5 or
7 time while keeping the rythm flowing.

   -Ben

--
Victor Eijkhout ................................ `There are also a few bugs,
Department of Computer Science .......... though not as many as I've come to
University of Tennessee ............... expect in new [MS]Windows products.'
Knoxville TN 37919 ................................ (from a software review)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: tom@astro.as.arizona.edu (Thomas J. Trebisky)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Who does Tchaikovsky well?
Date: 26 Jan 93 03:50:08 GMT
Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson, AZ


I am in particular interested in good performances of his 5th and 6th
Symphonies.  Yes, I have the Penguin guide, but (sigh) whenever I go
to the CD store, there are always tantalizing things (which are not in
the guide).

Anyway, the net has saved me from disaster before (like the 1980 set
of Karajan Beethoven Symphonies), so I submit the following for comment.

Tchaikovsky Symphony #5 -- Bernstein, DG Dig.
Tchaikovsky Symphony #6 -- Bernstein, DG Dig.
Tchaikovsky Symphony #6 -- Dutoit, Montreal SO, London Dig.

	Years ago (1975??), I was in Chicago downtown, wandering by
	Symphony hall, I found that a performance was soon to begin,
	and some tickets had been returned for resale by people who
	had previously purchased them but could not make it.  To make
	a long story short, I got a ticket for a bargain price and
	found myself with a very good seat -- and the CSO did
	Tchaikovsky's 6th symphony.  It was a potent performance,
	I have never heard it like this before or since.  Wish I
	could remember who the conductor was.

If kind souls feel like commenting, here are some others:

Mahler Symphony #1, Tennstedt, CSO, EMI (?)
Mahler Symphony #7, Rattle, CBSO
Brahms Piano Concerto #2  Haitink, Askenazy

In all cases, except perhaps the last, I believe these are
rather new digital recordings.

I would be grateful for comments on these disks -- they are on the shelves
and mine for the buying.  If there are other more recommendable performances,
by all means enlighten me.
--
	Tom Trebisky	ttrebisky@as.arizona.edu

This program posts news to thousands of machines throughout the entire
civilized world.  Your message will cost the net hundreds if not thousands of
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster)
Subject: Re: Public Service Announcement
In-reply-to: apter@fid.morgan.com's message of Thu, 21 Jan 1993 22:03:45 GMT
Organization: pubs
	<1993Jan21.220345.10128@fid.morgan.com>
Date: 22 Jan 93 12:58:18 CST

Steve Apter writes:

   I might point out that the cheapest nontoxic substance that removes
   the labels without eating through the jewelbox into the CD (and onward
   into the earth's core) should satisfy.

But what *is* it?

   PPS:  alt.heloise?  Is that a *medieval* joke Chris?

Yes, as in "Hints from Heloise and Abelard".

Chris
From: alves@calvin.usc.edu (William Alves)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Define "Well Tempered"
Date: 25 Jan 1993 10:42:30 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: calvin.usc.edu

In article <hbm3h7p@rpi.edu> mccomt@aix.rpi.edu (Todd Michel McComb) writes:

>Thanks for this clarification of the definitions.  One further question
>just to be sure: is meantone a type of well temperament?

Not as it's usually defined, because not all keys in meantone are playable.
Of course playability is a relative and subjective thing, but if you've
ever heard a 1/4-comma meantone wolf fifth, you'd agree that it's not
very pleasant to hear in baroque music, to say the least. Well temperament
developed out of a desire to spread the wolf around more so that the
foreign keys were made playable while the common keys only sounded slightly
worse. (Some well temperaments took other approaches, such as spreading
the pythagorean comma instead of the wolf.)

Bill
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: parson_r@cubldr.colorado.edu (Robert Parson)
Subject: Re: Shostakovich's 8th
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 02:01:22 GMT

In article <Jan27.231849.46136@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU>, hurben@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Mike Hurben) writes:
>   I just picked up the Haitink recording of the 8th, and I am quite stunned.

 Good recording.

> I really don't know what to make of some of this - the 3rd movement scares
> the hell out of me!  
  Yup, that's the idea. Sometimes it's called the "shellfire" movement.

> I guess that is the whole point of this piece, but I
> am curious about other impressions, namely about the final minutes of the
> last movement...
> 
 Inspired.

 DSCH is fond of superficially cheerful finales that turn out to be a lot
 deeper than you thought they'd be. What'd you think about
 the way the climax of the first movement breaks in about 2/3 of the way 
 through the finale?

> Now that I have his 5th, 8th, and 9th, reccomendations as to my next purchase,
> as always, are quite welcome....
> 
 10 and 11. Hold off on 4 and 14 until you're more comfortable with his
 language. And try the 4th and 8th string quartets.

 Robert
From: freed@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Der Wein den mann mit Augen trinkt...)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Brahms and Tosca (Was Re: Brahms Basher Repents)
Date: 26 Jan 1993 23:51:54 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX
NNTP-Posting-Host: foghorn.cc.utexas.edu
Summary: the scream!

It was I who mentioned the Tosca w/ the realistic scream (by the way
I like your description of most operatic screams!) but I'm afraid I
haven't found out what recording it was.  If you find out, tell me!
Oh, and it's not when she jumps, it's when she discovers Mario is really
dead.

freed@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu
From: rags@triples.math.mcgill.ca (Robert A. G. Seely)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Define "Well Tempered"
Date: 23 Jan 93 15:25:10 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization

In article <1993Jan22.190740.16225@Princeton.EDU> roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig) writes:
>
>>As I understand it, Bach wrote the Well-tempered Klavier as a
>>demonstration of the advantages of an even tempered scale.
>
>*sigh* Here we go again.  
>
>He didn't.  But you're close.  
>
>He did so to demonstrate the uses of the *WELL*-tempered tuning system,
>which is close to equal temperament, but not identical to it.  In his time
>it was near impossible to implement true equal temperament; the one he
>used had the advantage of feasibility.
>
>Roger

In all this discussion I am surprised no one has mentioned the pretty little
program recently advertised here (or was it on rec.music.early?) which gives
graphical representations of many different temperaments: TANTRUM by 
smalin@well.sf.ca.us (Stephen Malinowski).  (I hope he won't mind the
advertisement ;-}  .) 

This is available by ftp - but I don't recall where - and I would imagine SM
can give more info for those interested (maybe if he sees this he'll post...)

Some early music performer friends of mine have been playing with this
program a lot lately - it gives a lot of info faster than retuning does, so
allows one to experiment with various tunings quite easily.  They have found
it a useful tool.  

- rags
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: tony@cns.nyu.edu (Tony Movshon)
Subject: Re: Boosey sues Disney
Reply-To: tony@cns.nyu.edu
Organization: New York University
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 19:35:32 GMT

I found this article very curious, too. The Rite of Spring must now be
in the public domain, but it was not in 1939 when Fantasia was made, so
there *was* a contract between Stravinsky (or his agents) and Disney.
Presumably domestic videocassettes were not mentioned in the original
contract :-), so I would guess that Disney's continuing rights to use
the material would depend on the precise wording of the 193x contract.

The NYT piece also commented on how much Stravinsky loathed the way
the music was hacked up for the movie. No comment recorded on the
dinosaurs.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
					Tony Movshon

Internet:  movshon@nyu.edu		Howard Hughes Medical Institute
					Center for Neural Science
					New York University
Phone:	   (212) 998-7880		4 Washington Place, room 809
Fax:	   (212) 995-4183		New York, NY 10003
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: nkumamot@ss.titech.ac.jp (Norichika Kumamoto)
Subject: Re: I need CD recommendations of Bach's Vln Sonatas and Partitas
Organization: Tokyo Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 09:44:36 GMT

Hello!

In article <1993Jan21.124230.1@gsbacd.uchicago.edu> ca_ac@gsbacd.uchicago.edu writes:

   >>> Szeryng (Columbia Portrait) -- I think this was a limited edition (it's 
   >>> 	still listed in H&B catalog...).  Szeryng's tone is like Oistrakh,
   >>> 	or Grumiaux, pure and rich, and this set is worth listening to
   >>> 	just for that reason.  Szeryng's interpretation doesn't have quite
   >>> 	as much variety in tempi from piece to piece as some others, but
   >>> 	still a very nice set.
   >>This mono set is a Japanese import and I have seen it around at various stores.
   >>The cover indicates that the recording was made in 1965 which is nonsense of
   >>course - it was recorded in the early fifties.
   >>This is another set that has been hurt by the remastering (IMHO), 
   >>making Szeryng sound somewhat harsh, but it's an eminently worthwhile set 
   >>nevertheless. Szeryng manages to bring out the contrapuntal nature of this music
   >>(real as well as implied) almost better than anybody else. Listen to the 
   >>fugues in each of the Sonatas. In this respect nobody else comes close. 
   >>That Szeryng's later stereo recording for DG is not generally available on CD
   >>is astounding, since it has all the qualities of these performances and better
   >>sound in addition.

The Szeryng's later stereo recording for DG is available on CD in
Japan. This is my strongly recommended recording. I could get that CDs
because I live in Japan.
--
              $@El5~9)6HBg3XBg3X1!!!M}9)3X8&5f2J(J
       $@EE5$!&EE;R9)3X@l96!!T";^8&5f<<(J  $@Gn;N8e4|2]Dx#3G/(J
                          $@7'K\!!G5?F(J
                   nkumamot@ss.titech.ac.jp
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical