From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: Hitler and Christianity
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 22:34:44 GMT

ciaran@county.lmt.mn.org (Ciaran Benson) writes:
: >>:   I mean, really, a discussion of dat ol' debbel on alt.Pagan?
: >>: 
: >>:   Without even one reference to rituals? ;)
: 
: >So, what does ritual have to do with Paganism? Other than being
: >one facet of the lifestyle that some people practice.
: 
:   It is an essential component of my Paganism.  My religion would
: be worthless to me if it was not an outgrowth of my lifestyle, and
: was not a sacred ritual of life.  The idea of a religion which was
: NOT a lifestyle seems very sad to me.

Well, make that "a religion which is not part of a lifestyle" and I
would agree 100%. Basing my life on my religion seems backwards, to
me. I would rather my religious beliefs were compatable with what I
practice in life - if not, then it is easy enough to change the
religious belief.

:   Thank you, though, for acting as appologist for all of the
: Pagans out there who don't do ritual and who are offended by my
: mentioning ritual in alt.pagan.  I'm hoping that there is a
: sufficiently large number of Pagans in alt.pagan who do consider
: ritual an important facet of their religion that they'll get the
: joke and maybe get a laugh or two out of it.

Oh, I don't think any are upset about the mention of ritual. The
ones that were upset, including me, were the ones that did not
like your definition of Paganism.

I am sure all that post here are aware that ritual is an important
part of many religions. This is true of mainline religions as well.

: >Hm, I must have missed something - I do not recall seeing any 
: >such posts. Where were they? How recent were they?
: 
:   I was refering to some private mail which I got, and was trying
: to deflect any more -- I few folks have written to me privately
: about this, and upon reflection I've seen that the people who
: wrote the most caustic private mail are not regular posters to
: alt.pagan.

Not too surprising. They would probably publically run up against
one of us "caustic posters" - something that they probably would
not enjoy. There is a big difference between screaming and yelling
and making a fool of yourself in private and in public. Some cannot
stand the dents in their ego that occur when they do something that
is foolish in public. Me, I just don't know any better. :-)

:   I suspect now that the folks who wrote me these letters were not
: alt.paganers at all.  The mail which I sent to those addresses
: has all come bad undeliverable -- bad addresses and such.

You should see some of the mail I get when I defend the Satanists
or the Christians. :-)  The best thing to do with such hate mail
is just delete it. If there is reasonable arguement, then pay
attention - you might learn something. Otherwise, it is not worth
even the effort of reading through.

:   That I was getting these nasty letters at the time that I was
: first trying to get a handle of what alt.pagan is about has,
: admittedly, left me rather touchy about posting here.  Especially
: since there's a good chance that any post I make will earn me
: a couple of week's worth of responses (public and private)
: reminding me that I'm practicing a lifestyle, not a religion.

Well, you are practicing a lifestyle. Whether that lifestyle consists
totally of your religion is a matter only you can decide and define.
To others, their religion is only part of their life - as such, they
object to the restrictive definition that you have used.

:   Unfortunately, this probably means that I've wrongly flamed back
: at people who I had confused with the nasties who were privately
: sending me slime-mail.  Appologies all around.

More than likely. It takes a bit to separate the two. I treat e-mail
and the net as separate entities. I pretend that all unsolicited e-mail
is the same as junk mail. I scan it and, if it appears to be interesting,
then I read it - otherwise it goes in the bit bucket.

No need to apologize - you have every right to state your own opinions.
Don't let some people who disagree stop you.

Bill