From: smayo@wang.com (Scott Mayo)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Self-love, self-esteem, and "saving the earth" as heresies
Date: 9 Apr 92 08:09:44 GMT
Organization: Wang Labs, Lowell MA, USA

>>To a very great extent, any creed that teaches a person to consider
>>themselves as wonderful and always improving is going to run afoul
>>of Christianity. Christians, under the prodding of scripture and personal
>>experience, take a darker view of the goodness inherent in man (ie, many deny
>>it exists). 

>You mention scripture. In my New Testament I find:

>"You are a light for all the world. A town that stands on a hill
>cannot be hidden. When a lamp is lit, it is not put under the
>meal-tub, but on the lamp-stand, where it gives light to everyone in
>the house.  And you, like the lamp, must shed light among your
>fellows, so that, when they see the good you do, they may give praise
>to your Father in heaven." Matt 5:14-16

>So saying you are a light to the world should not be called heresy.

This is a call, pure and simple, to live as purely as we can, as witness
to our love for our Lord. This doesn't support your view or mine. It
simply indicates that we should try to live morally. Neither heresy nor
very suprising. I sometimes do good; it does not prove that I *am* good.

>"What will a man gain by winning the whole world, at the cost of his
>true self" Matt 16:26

>This makes no sense unless your true self--who you really are--is
>good. 

Close. The self is *valuable*, extremely so in God's eyes. It is worth
saving, which is why Jesus died on a cross for us. Valuable does not
equal good. BTW, I use "good" to mean "perfect, as God is perfect." I
don't mean "culturally acceptable" by it. Anyone can please man.

As an example, I have wonderful, and much-loved, children. But I wouldn't,
exactly, call them *good*. Not by God's standards and not even, some
days, by my own.

>"A pupil is not superior to his master, but everyone, when his training
>is complete, will reach his teacher's level" Luke 6:40

>Jesus is telling us we will reach his level. An obvious New Age heresy!

What an interesting translation you are using. Mine renders it "...will be
like his teacher." Anyone out there with a better knowledge of the greek
want to clarify this for me? Is the implication that of equality with God
for all believers?

>Jesus answered, "Is it not written in your own Law, 'I said: You are
>gods'?  Those are called gods to whom the word of God was
>delivered--and Scripture cannot be set aside. Then why do you charge
>me with blasphemy because I, consecrated and sent into the world by
>the Father, said, 'I am God's Son'?"

I don't think that *I* can achieve the goodness and perfection of God.
Jesus is quite a different matter. Jesus said this, BTW, to folk
who wanted to stone him for claiming equality with God. (You quoted
John 10:34-36, but neglected to drag in 10:31-33). I find that significant.

It seems to me that a number of other verses might be marshalled in my
defense. There are a few potent verses
in the OT, pointing out that "all our rightousness is filthy rags before
God", which says it all, really.

>The heresy hunters didn't like this sort of talk back then either.  If
>your impulse when you see someone manifesting their privilege as a
>child of God is "crucify him!", I think you need to take a look at
>this attitude and ask why. You might find it is just this attitude
>which is blocking your progress.

For some reason "blocking your progress" rings in my ears as a Newage
buzzword. I'm not making progress, in that sense, at all. I'm being
redeemed by my saviour, and doing my best not to make the process more
difficult than it has to be. 
--
These are only my opinions.  You should hear my convictions.
smayo@wang.com