HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: GC.GGG@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gwyn Gordon)
Subject: Re: half pass vs leg yield (was flying changes)
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 21:56:40 GMT

In article <Bw2tL2.DqK@news.larc.nasa.gov>,
patty@alpha.larc.nasa.gov (Patty Howell) writes:

>GG:Do you change the bend on each circle, or maintain one bend
>GG:throughout the whole 8? The latter is very helpful, in my
>GG:experience.
>
>  Sometimes yes, sometimes no. When I get a few really good strides
>  in counter flexion (usually takes till about the third loop), then
>  the next time across the center I keep the bend "as a reward" and
>  change it the next time to do the other side. It is also interesting
>  to note that after some good strides in counter flexion, the next
>  circle w/o counter flexion  is *very* well balanced. (No surprise, obviously)

This is what I like to do best with horses that tend to fall in
around turns -- whether it's from sourness, anticipation, or
just being green. It seems to make them suddenly aware of the fact
that they can and should react to your leg (a point utterly lost on
some). When you practice maintaining the same bend throughout a
figure 8, ALL your turns become better, from circles to rollbacks to
just going around on the rail.

>PH>If a horse is leaning on your hands during these exercises, he needs
>PH>to learn the critical lesson of letting the reins act through his
>PH>body to place him on his haunches.
>
>GG:Are you saying this is something he'll naturally figure out, or are
>GG:there things the rider needs to do?
>
>  Definitely things the rider needs to do. This is where we can all
>  learn something from the oldtime Western reinsmen. Balance w/o
>  collection. ON A LOOSE REIN. Want some specific exercises?

YES.

>GG:No no, this is great. Thanks.
>
>  Yea,I think so too. So, why do you live in CA?!!

Uhhh....I like really overpriced, overpopulated ex-paradises that
have no seasons? No, I was born, raised and schooled here, and
haven't quite gotten it out of my system yet.

=gg
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: brandyt@microsoft.com (Barbara Brandy Thorp)
Subject: Recommended: Face Grooma
Date: 08 Oct 92 16:09:43 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corp.

A couple of weeks ago I got a Head and Face Grooma.
It's like a round curry, only the rubber brisles are
really soft.  It didn't look like it would work that
well, but Ilike my big Grooma, and thought "Whatt the..."

Anyway, this thing is great!  My horse has always just
tolerated being brushed and stuff.  It is always a race
to see if I can finish before he gets tired of standing
still.  Now after I Face Grooma his face and legs he
is almost asleep and sighing with pleasure.  Plus, this
thing takes dried mud off his legs with ease.  

I have been looking for a way to give him pleasure that
isn't food related for years, and this really works.

..brandyt.

(I have no relationship with whatever company makes
 the Grooma line, other than as a customer)

Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: grass@ulysses.att.com (Judith Grass)
Subject: Re: Body clipper advice needed
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 19:53:56 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Labs

In article <ldohp2INNsla@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> clarefg@bestbet.Eng.Sun.COM writes:
>It's getting close to time to body clip my wooley horse.  I have been 
>looking for clippers but can only find the little kind for wiskers and 
>bridle paths.
>
>Can anyone give me the brand name, model and prices of some good quality
>body clippers?  IF in the Bay Area, where to get them would help.

I can give you an anti-recommendation....   If you can find *** anything ***
OTHER than the Oster/Sunbeam large animal clippers, it would be worth
trying them.  And I wouldn't even ask about the price.

The first set of Oster clippers I bought expired after clipping 1/2 a horse.
Yup.  There I was with my horse 1/2 done, and no way to continue.
I paid around $200 for those clippers, but the switch it has is a cheap
and unreliable a switch as you can buy.  I had to take the clippers in and
get the switch repaired before I could use them again.  I borrowed a
pair of clippers to finish my horse.

The next year I was going to be more prepared.  I spent another $200 
on a second, backup set of clippers.  Unfortunately, also from Oster/Sunbeam.
That is all you can find in tack stores in this area.  So much for
the "magic of the marketplace".

Those clippers have never worked more than 15 minutes in the entire 
4 years that I have owned them.  Plug it in.  It cuts for 5 minutes,
then it is totally dead until you bring it home, take it apart, 
replace the switch, and try to continue.

The original clippers have been working OK since the new switch
was put in,  but they are identical to the new clippers: so I can't
rely on them.

My trainer says this has been similar to her experience with the Oster
clippers.  She has about 5 pairs.. the intention being that if you
have enough backups, probably all of them can't fail before the horse
is clipped.

Frankly, even thinking about the clippers makes me so mad I want
to send hate mail to Sunbeam's CEO.  At this point there is no
product that company makes that I would purchase if there is any
other brand I can find.  

Second clipping peeve:  Why is it I send my blades to be sharpened,
for about $30 bucks a set, and they always come back duller than they
went out... so dull they do not cut, period?  

Grrrrrr....

		-- Judy Grass
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: GC.GGG@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gwyn Gordon)
Subject: Re: Slaughter Houses (LONG)
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 18:08:21 GMT

In article <DOCONNOR.92Oct9110808@potato.sedona.intel.com>,
doconnor@sedona.intel.com (Dennis O'Connor) writes:
>
>king@glacier.Stanford.EDU (Robin King) writes:
>] >So, my question is:  why are people so shocked when they hear about
>] >horses being slaughtered, but don't give a damn about exactly the same
>] >thing happening to other animals?  What's the difference between the
>] >killing of *any* horse and the killing of any cattle?
>]
>] Lots of us DON'T eat cows and sheep and pigs for the
>] precise reason that there _is_ no difference.
>
>Where is there a difference ? Chickens ? Lobsters ? Oysters ?
>Insects ? Amoebas ? Grass ?
>
>There's a lot of difference between eating carnivores and
>eating herbivores, from several aspects : ecosystemic efficiency,
>accumulated toxins, disease transmission and taste, at least.
>Stick to eating herbivores when possible, I'd advise.

You know what? This whole train is getting out there. This is
rec.equestrian, not rec.vegetarian.bashing or rec.food.commentary.

Why don't we stick to horses: riding, showing, training, whatever.

>] It doesn't matter to me whether I knew the animal or not, I don't
>] want to support the animal-eating/abuse industry.
>
>You may not support it but you do benefit from it. The details of
>the agribusiness system are complex, but it comes down to this :
>meat production leads to lower proces for vegetables and grain.
>For example, hay and corn are two of the three biggest crops
>grown in this country, and the majority of both goes to feeding
>animals that will be slaughtered for meat.
>
>Human beings evolved eating meat, just like wolves, tigers, bears,
>and a bunch of other animals. When you are dead, little animals will
>eat you. It's part of the cycle of life, as natural as breathing.

Dennis, if you want to debate the benefits and drawbacks to meat
eating, by all means e-mail me. Aren't you ignoring the
environmental impact of cattle production, blah blah blah? Write
gwyn.gordon@forsythe.stanford.edu if you want, if not no problem.


=gwyn
From: corich_a@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: Letting loose
Date: 13 Oct 92 13:24:24 NZST
Organization: Welligton City Council, Public Access.
NNTP-Posting-Host: blade.wcc.govt.nz

In article <1992Oct12.192726.23159@ms.uky.edu>, dahead00@nx28.mik.uky.edu (Zippidy Do Dah) writes:
> In article <seqLmbO00iV3A1_78k@andrew.cmu.edu>  writes:
>> Well we finally gave it a shot at letting Strawberry loose.  
> (stuff deleted)
> 
> I missed this thread as I have just started reading this newsgroup ( are  
> their any other equine groups on the net or is this it??)
> 
> Anyway my short comments on turning out.  Maybe I have alot of old  
> hardbooter in me but I am a firm beliver in keeping a horse outside as  
> opposed to inside.  Unless you are training it is best to keep your horses  
> together out in the feild to keep them mentally and physically healthy.   
> Most horse are very social and need to be near but not on top of each  
> other and in the elements.  
(STUFF DELETED)

Down here in New Zealand the majority of our horses are kept
outside..permanently.

In winter we rug them up and feed them more.

Apparently thats why NZ thoroughbreds do so well in cross-country eventing.
Because they are born and develop outside they are hardy and tough.

PS With working full time I don't think I would have time for a stabled horse..
how do all you full time workers manage it?

Alison, Wellington, New Zealand
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: GC.SUL@forsythe.stanford.edu (Sullivan)
Subject: wormers and slaughter
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 03:00:33 GMT

I can't imagine there is any way they can check if a h orse has had
any medicine or wormers before it is slaughtered.  For instance, I
could hypothetically worm my horse, take it to an Auction where it
is bought by a meat man, then 4 days later the horse is in Texas at
the
Slaughterhouse being killed.  I just can't see there is any way to
enforce this or even check it out.

(This is not to mean that I support slaughterhouses)

Karen
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: dahead00@nx28.mik.uky.edu (Zippidy Do Dah)
Subject: Re: Letting loose
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 19:27:26 GMT

In article <seqLmbO00iV3A1_78k@andrew.cmu.edu>  writes:
> Well we finally gave it a shot at letting Strawberry loose.  
(stuff deleted)

I missed this thread as I have just started reading this newsgroup ( are  
their any other equine groups on the net or is this it??)

Anyway my short comments on turning out.  Maybe I have alot of old  
hardbooter in me but I am a firm beliver in keeping a horse outside as  
opposed to inside.  Unless you are training it is best to keep your horses  
together out in the feild to keep them mentally and physically healthy.   
Most horse are very social and need to be near but not on top of each  
other and in the elements.  Wind and snow is not as important as providing  
shelter from the rain especially when you get those cold fall/winter rains  
that always seem to bring on the nasties.  And once the snots do come by  
having all your stock out together they all get it at once instead of  
having it in a one after the other process that can last for weeks or  
months and drive you about half crazy. Your horses may look alot scruffier  
but my observation is they are alot hardier and better developed in the  
long run....  I favor run in sheds to stalls except for cold rains and  
bitter cold with high winds.  But check how the wind blows over you  
property before building to provide the maximum benefit....

Don't know if this helps but thats my thinkin on the subject......

Zippy D  Who prefers warm spring rains to those cold fall ones anyday
From: rse3765@summa.tamu.edu (ERKERT, RONALD STEWART)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: Slaughter Houses (LONG)
Date: 8 Oct 92 20:13:00 GMT
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

Point 1:

As an Animal Science major here at A&M we are required to take a
course in Meat production.  This class involves a lab where students
actually slaughter hogs, lambs, and heifers.  We use a captive-bolt gun
to stun the lambs, this is not used on cattle as the brains are used and
would be condemned if bone fragments are found in it.

The bolt doesn't actually kill the animal.  Rather it acts as a general
anesthetic.  Don't get me wrong, the animal doesn't feel a thing after being
stunned.  In order to remove the blood from the animal the heart must pump.

There are occasions where the animal jerks and is partially conscious and 
has to be gunned again.  Fortunately this is rare.

After being stunned the animal is stuck and bled, during which some nervous
movement is possible and the norm.  After bleeding, the hide is removed, the
carcass is cleaned, gutted, split, cleaned, and refrigerated.

I won't go into anymore detail than that, as it's not a sight for weak
stomachs.  Even in lab there were several who would leave during bleeding or
at other points.  The lab was never forced on anyone.

Drugs cannot be used if the meat is to be sold for human consumption, which a
lot of horse meat is (shipped overseas after slaughter).  By that I mean that
drugs are not allowed because they will not have had time to clear from the
system before slaughter.

Point 2:

A lot of people I know mistake Animal Rights for Animal Welfare.  I am 
adamantly against animal rights, however, I am completely for animal welfare.
There is a big difference between the two.  This is already getting long so
I won't torture y'all and go into lengthy reasoning.

Point 3:

Most Americans are against the consumption of horseflesh by humans because
of church doctrine which has been ingrained on us for several centuries.  In
many European and Asian countries horse meat is a delicacy just like dog and
cat.

Horses, like dogs and cats, are often times seen as members of the family rather
than livestock and so becomes, literally, cannibalism.

*step down from soapbox*

Any flames on the subject can be sent directly to me so that I can kill them 
without having to subject everyone else on the net to it.  I realize I sound 
like an uncaring boor, but I can assure you that, as a horse owner, I am 
anything but.  Nor do I apologize for my views.  Open minded discussions on 
the subject are welcomed.

I do, however, apologize for getting so long here.  

Ron
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: blythedr@infonode.ingr.com (Dennis Blythe)
Subject: Re: Support against Inhumane Slaughtering
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 08:47:06 GMT

>
>
>Unless I am mistaken, one of the main organizers of this group is a 
>Trakehner breeder originally from Germany, who now lives in Northern CA.
>I doubt that she would be interested in stopping horse trade since that
>would affect her income. I believe the group is exactly what it's name
>says "Against the Horse Slaughter Trade".
>			^^^^^^^^^
>Any one with any more info on the group?
>
>Also, realize that there is a significant trade in stolen horses which
>are sold to rendering plants. I believe the new CA legislation requiring
>inspection of horses leaving the state for slaughter( and comparing them
>to descriptions or stolen horses) was started by several owners who had
>their horses stolen and recovered them from rendering plants ( barely in
>time ).
>
>
>Kyle Karnosh
>Con Brio Farms
>Quality Warmblood Sporthorses
>Gilroy, CA


  Yes, You are correct. Liakos is the name of the women who is the main
organizer of this group. She was born in Germany and now resides in
California. She has accomplished a great deal in the fight agaisnt
inhumantiy. I spoke with her on the phone last night. From what I
understood she (personaly) would like to see horse slaughtering
come to an end. period. But a great deal of people and other countries
will not support that issue. The coalition is against live trade
over seas ( Because numerous horses are neglected in the transport).
And we have no rights to how forien countries kill horses that are
exported. We need to reform how horses are hauled and to hire haulers
that have been schooled on how to care and feed and water theses 
horses when they are in transport and how to euthinize the ones that 
are injured in route. Sorry to everyone about the repeat. I just
want to be sure that Ms. Liakos intention are represented right.
I hope that I have done that. The way I feel about is, all animals
deserve to be treated humainly ( don't confuse me with animal. vs
people right. That is not what this is about). If we complained
to our congress person about every animal on gods earth, it would
fall on deaf ears. That is why we have special intrest groups.
  

  If anyone has anymore questions on the purpose of this welfare group
please contact the Coalition Against the Horse Slaughter Trade,
PO Box 907 penngrove,CA 94951 or call (707)762-3644. They will be
happy to answer any questions. 

  Pam
From: karlm@sequent.com (Karl Maerz)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Sentimentality and Burying Horses
Date: 15 Oct 92 00:54:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: sequent.1992Oct15.005414.3863
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc.

mdresser@pbs.org (Melanie Dresser) writes:
>... What a friend of mine did and I will probably do 
>if I can, is hire someone with a backhoe to dig the grave, then have 
>the vet give him an injection, so he is painlessly, peacefully and
>humanely put down.  I am not interested in "recycling" my horse, I want
>to know he is resting in peace, and yes that is sentimental, but he
>has given me so much, that is the least I can do for him when the time
>comes.  I may also look into cremation, but that may be costly for
>an animal the size of a horse.

Beware the potential for ground water contamination.  There are
laws against doing that here in Oregon (though I'm not sure at what
governmental level) because of that reason.  I personally know several
people who have buried their horses anyway, and once thought that's what
I would do.  I don't think so anymore.  If one of my horses up and dies
on me or has to be put down suddenly -- in other words, I end up with a 
carcass on my hands -- I'll probably call the rendering plant.  If I
have more time to work with, I'll look for a humane way out for my
critter.  That might end up being a lethal injection and call the
renderer anyway, or I'd at least be willing to check out the zoo
donation option, depending on the specifics.  I would even possibly
consider the slaughterhouse if its done humanely and I accompany the 
horse all the way to the end.  In any case, if I've made the call to 
euthanize my horse I will be there when he/she takes the last breath.
I won't haul one of my friends to the auction.

Karl Maerz
karlm@sequent.com
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: lbm@avs.com (Linda B. Merims)
Subject: Re: Slaughter Houses (LONG)
Organization: Advanced Visual Systems Inc.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 19:00:14 GMT
X-Posted-From: phobos.avs.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

Re:  why don't they inject the horse...

Yes, you reasoned correctly.  As I believe a few other people
have already alluded, you can't use an animal for meat that has been
put down by lethal injection.  This is what the vet told me.

Linda Merims
From: ja23+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jean Andrews)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Letting Loose
Date: 12 Oct 92 13:24:55 GMT
Organization: Graduate School of Industrial Administr., Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Well we finally gave it a shot at letting Strawberry loose.  We put her
out with Gwen and she bucked and ran for about 10 minutes with Gwen 
following right behind her.  The only time Strawberry followed was when
they went in the indoor arena and Strawberry didn't realize you could also
get out the other side.  They grazed side by side and walked all over the
place (it has been cleaned up quite alot with still more to go).  She
even found a wonderful muddy spot and rolled over and over.  We then
let another mare, Impression, Gwen's friend out.  Strawberry reared up and
actually tried to keep Impression away from her new friend Gwen.  Impression
ran back into the stable and in her stall.  Strawberry was out for about
an hour and a half and as soon as the lead was put on, settled down right
away.  She did get a nick on her left rear fetlock, nothing serious.  I
think we'll introduce another horse the next time she is out.  Another
question everyone, Missi does ride her for at least an hour every day 
either on trails or in the arena.  How much out time by herself should she
get?  We still want to be there for the next few times and aren't sure we
really want her out with all the mares, there are about 15 and some are
truly nasty.  One will go after humans, teeth barred rushing you.  We
saw how happy she was out, but how much is enough?  Thanks everyone for
all your suggestions and for caring.  I think I was just as scared letting
her out for the first time as I was letting my older daughter drive!

Jean, Missi and Strawberry Pai
From: dlc@gasco.uucp (endurance is my life)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: New Mailing List Announcement
Date: 12 Oct 92 23:02:48 GMT
Article-I.D.: gasco.1992Oct12.230248.17643
Organization: Northwest Natural Gas, Portland, OR

Not too long ago there was a brief post about a model horse
mailing list (for showing, remaking, collecting, etc, model 
horses of all makes).

This is a follow up of sorts to let you all know that the 
mailing list now has it's own address.

If you're interested in being on the list, send email to:
model-horse-request@xzact.com. The address to submit articles
to is: model-horse@xzact.com.

Hope to see some of you there!

>>-Darci->

--
  Darci L. Chapman    \   Northwest Natural Gas   /   Honor Diversity
   X Window Systems    \    Portland, Oregon     /   Not Bigotry
    Consultant          \    dlc@gasco.com      /   Vote NO on Measure 9
 
"The outside of a horse is good for the inside of a man or a woman." W. Rogers
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian