From: schuck@fraser.sfu.ca (Bruce Jonathan Schuck)
Subject: Re: Meat eaters
Reply-To: Bruce_Schuck@sfu.ca
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 22:55:25 GMT

buhr@umanitoba.ca (Kevin Andrew Buhr) writes:

>In article <schuck.724481107@sfu.ca> schuck@fraser.sfu.ca (Bruce
>Jonathan Schuck) writes:
>>
>>  leffler@physics.ubc.ca (Steve Leffler ) writes:
>>
>>  >   Has it occurred to anyone that if everyone gave up eating meat,
>>  >certain domesticated species of animal--particularly cows and
>>  >chickens--would very rapidly become endangered species?  These
>>  >animals have been modified far too much by selective breeding to
>>  >survive in the wild now.
>>
>>  Thats an interesting point. If everyone gave up eating beef tomorrow,
>>  all the beef farmers/ranchers would kill their herd off within a
>>  matter of days because they aren't into keeping cattle as pets.

>You're avoiding the issue.  The meat industry is not static: the
>public demand for animal food products is a force that encourages the
>continued domestication of animals for food purposes.  By eating meat
>(even the domesticated cow), you are setting the precedent that using
>animals for food is okay. 

Precedent? I always thought the precedent for eating meat was that we
evolved as meat eaters *and* vegetation eaters.

Do you really mean to imply human beings are meat eaters because *I*
go out and buy a steak or a cheeseburger?

> Hence, there is little moral pressure
>against the domestication of fish, the proliferation of game parks,

Why should there be? Should we also round up all the predators in
nature and tell them to stop eating meat too? 

>etc.  Besides which it is not a giant ethical leap from eating cows to
>wearing mink, and the mink is not domesticated.

Ever heard of ranch mink? How about fine corinthian leather?


>>  I ask the vegetarians out there:
>>
>>  Is it better to have never lived at all, never to have chewed grass
>>  and dropped cow patties all over the place under a clear blue sky,
>>  never to have got it on with another cow/bull, never sucked milk from
>>  it's mothers teat, never ran as fast as a cows four legs can run,
>>  and never been born,

>Possibly.  Personally, I would rather not live at all than live as
>someone's property.  If you feel differently, bully for you.

There are no *wild* cows anymore.

>>  I ask those questions, because thats the choice, there is no inbetween.

>Yes there is an in-between.  You can eat the occasional hamburger,
>wear leather shoes, but avoid eating shark steak and wearing arctic
>fox coats.  You can also encourage the humane treatment of meat
>cattle, to help the industry reality begin to approach the quaint,
>idyllic scenes you paint.

I think the cattle industry is humane, depsite waht some of the
vegetarian loonies keep claiming.

>Of course, you haven't even started to consider the fabulous
>egological inefficiencies you encourage with your meat-eating
>behaviour.  This argument can't be dealt with by a "Happy Cow"
>theory.

>For your information, I eat meat, and I don't fault you for doing so,
>but if you really believe the stuff you posted, you haven't taken a
>realistic look at the vegetarians' argument.

I take them as seriously as breatharians.

People who claim to be *more* eithical than I am because they chose a
tofu burger over a cheeseburger have to back it up with proof.
They haven't offered any.

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