From: Petch@gvg47.gvg.tek.com (Chuck Petch)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Fundamentalist Nightmare
Date: 19 Nov 92 16:28:13 GMT
Organization: Grass Valley Group, Grass Valley, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: oboe.gvg.tek.com

In article <1ecn4cINN217@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, bx461@cleveland.Freenet.Edu
(Leo J. Mauler) wrote:
> 
> 
> What really bugs me about Fundamentalists bashing Gays is that
> they claim to have a deep personal relationship with Jesus,
> yet use Old Testament teachings to justify gay-bashing.
> 
> As I recall from my days as a Catholic robot, Jesus came along
> and started saying, "Hey guys, wouldn't it be a neat idea if
> we were nice to people for a change?  Like "Love your neighbor
> as yourself"!  Like "If you have to bend a rule to help
> someone, DO IT! (Sabbath)" ".  
> 
> Those guys who followed the Old Testament LIKE THE FUNDIES 
> had Jesus killed for saying things like that.  Makes you
> wonder about those televangelists...
> 
> Finally, this bit about "love your neighbor as yourself".  I
> live in Lawrence, KS, which is just a few dozen miles from
> Topeka, KS, the home of the infamous Reverend Fred Phelps.
> On nearly every week you can find him organizing some anti-gay
> protest, with people carrying lots of signs encouraging people
> to hate gays.
> 
> If Rev. Phelps is truly a follower of Jesus' teachings, and he
> truly "loves his neighbor as himself," the Reverend Fred
> Phelps must hate himself a LOT!


It amazes me how people who know very little about the religion they are
criticizing manage to be so certain about their opinions. Being a
fundamentalist simply means getting back to the fundamental ideas taught in
the Bible without embellishing it with present day fads, such as the idea
that homosexuality is not morally offensive. 

Let's try a few specifics rather than the broad generalities the critics
seem to prefer. First, Jesus did tell us to love one another. But if you
know that much, you must also know that Jesus actively rebuked sin.
Remember the woman caught in the act of adultery? What did Jesus say to
her? First He told the crowd, "Let he who is without sin cast the first
stone." Then he told her, "No one condemns you. GO AND SIN NO MORE." 

The same Jesus told us to go and make disciples, but he also set standards
of morality for all of His disciples (Christians). He told us to confront a
fellow Christian if they break those standards, and further, to break
fellowship with them if they refuse to listen. This is hard stuff, but IT'S
NOT UNLOVING. Is it better to tolerate now and let a person lose his or her
life with God for eternity? God does judge people for their actions; the
Bible says so. What are His criteria? First, belief in Jesus. Second,
obedience to his commandments. I didn't say that; Jesus did.

Next, is homosexuality a sin, or should we simply tolerate it? Check out
Romans Chapter 1 in the NEW TESTAMENT where the apostle Paul refers to
homosexuality as a sin so repulsive that it shouldn't even be spoken about.
The language is absolutely clear--God did not make us for that kind of
life.

So where does that leave us. Should Christians hate homosexuals? Absolutely
not. First, we have to remember that we ourselves are sinners and are not
fit to judge others. Regarding other sinners, we are expected to love the
person but hate the sin. Practically speaking, that means to accept and
love any individual who crosses your path, but also tell them about the
love and forgiveness of Jesus and encourage them to GIVE UP THEIR SIN. Any
other approach would be UNLOVING because to tolerate the sin would be to
let people die in their sins and face judgement.

In actual practice, I know that there are many churches that reach out to
homosexuals with the message that God loves them and wants them in His
family. The Foursquare Church in San Francisco is one. They actively
minister to and love the people in the homosexual community. But they
expect any homosexual who wants to join the church to give up their sin. To
do otherwise would be to condemn them to eternity without God, a very
unloving act.

Finally, is God evil because he condemns sin, judges people for it, and
casts them into hell if they have not accepted Jesus as Savior? Certainly
not. He's God. He made us, and He sets the rules He wants us to live by.
It's our choice whether we want to live by them or not, but if we choose
not to, we shouldn't come whining to Him on the day of judgement. WE made
the choice for sin and against God, effectively casting ourselves into
hell. And finally, the Bible says God loves us, EVERY ONE OF US, more than
we love our own children. He wants us to make the right choice, to choose
Him and not hell, but it's entirely up to us. And I can verify this much;
life as a Christian has been far more joyful and satisfying than it ever
was before I was a Christian. Seek Jesus out, and ask Him to forgive your
sins and come into your life. You won't regret it.

Chuck Petch