From: echong@porpoise.ecn.purdue.edu (Edwin Chong)
Subject: Re: US vs British university degree
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 14:53:57 GMT

In article <1992Aug26.060234.4707@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg> eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Othman Ahmad) writes:
>If you are good at passing exams you can do well in US universities. For
>example there was a Malaysian PSD scholar who graduated with PhD in 5 years
>after MCE(GCE O level). This is fact, I read in in Malaysian newspaper.
>	 In UK , no matter how brilliat you are, you can only
>get it in 6 years, 1 year A level, 3 year BSc, 2 year PhD.
>	Because you can take exams in USA for your PhD, your research work
>need not be of greater depth. In UK system, you must do more original unguided
>work to complete your PhD.
>	A colleague of mine who got his PhD from USA commented that, in USA
>ordinary student can get PhD because he is guided whereas he may fail in a 
>UK system because he is unguided.

Yes, I guess in general what you say is true. However, it is very
difficult to make generalizations about things in the USA; the
variation is too great. There are really lousy universities, and there
are *great* universities. At the lousiest of universities, you can
probably get a PhD with minimal original work. At the best of
universities, you have to publish several journal papers before being
allowed to get out.

It is true that the US system is more structured; more guidance, more
interaction with Professors and peers. This often makes it more
pressurizing as well. I've known at least 2 UK educated students who
went to Princeton for graduate studies, and found the pressure unbearable.
One went back to Cambridge, I think. 

>: Virtually all PhD programs in the US require students to pass a
>: "qualifying exam". This is a comprehensive exam on the student's area
>: of specialization, typically at an advanced level. Preparation for
>: this exam is usually much more intensive than any undergraduate exam.
>
>Those who graduate from UK system like Hong Kong can score A easily in these
>courses.

Agreed.

>UK only teach you the fundamentals. Like Maxwell equations. The rest you must
>solve yourself. You are not taught. You must work out from first principles
>in order to solve your problems. Now I realise that some of our exam questions
>are actually taken from "published papers" which we are asked to prove.
>	You can imagine how difficult it is to pass in the UK system.

Hmm...my experience must be biased. I noticed UK and Australian
universities teach a lot of "practical" subjects, whereas the US
universities I've encountered teach mostly fundamentals.

>
>Now that I have worked in Industry and lecture at a University, I strongly
>believe that we must teach student fundamentals instead of practical skills
>which are just the application of those fundamental theories. The practical
>skills are argueable and "will become obsolete". The fundamentals will not 
>become obsolete.

I totally agree.

>
>This explains why UK trained professionals tend to develop original ideas and
>are in great demand even in USA, at least the better ones. This is called
>brain drain from UK and Europe.
>
>HOw do you feel if a group of students were sent to UK and another to USA with
>similar MCE exam results, and find that in USA everyone passes? From UK,  a lot
>of them failed or only manage to get general degree.
>
>In USA, to get 90% in normal. In UK, you are lucky to get 70%.
>There is no point in having a large syllabus when the exam questions are 
>easy and straight forward, and the marking also less strict.

As I said, it's hard to generalize. This may be true in some US
schools, but not all. Probably not the top schools.

>
>In USA the employers know about this so they judge the graduates from the 
>University that they graduate. The same is true to Japan. The battle is
>therefore to get into the Elite Universities.

Exactly.

>IMHO Malaysian Government should only send scholarship holders to the top
>Universities in the World, after spending so much money on them, instead of
>sending to the lower class ones. They may as well be sent to local Universities.

I think so too. In fact, I know of very few Malaysians in the very top
engineering schools.  I've always wondered why. Is it because they do
not know what the top schools are? There are tons of Taiwanese,
Koreans, Japanese, and Hong-Kong students at these top universities.
Where are the Malaysians?


------
Edwin Chong
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean