HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: burt@ptltd.com (Burton Choinski)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
Subject: Re: New rules cludge
Date: 9 Sep 92 23:43:05 GMT
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
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We use the power push of any excess over the roll needed to hit.  Thus, if
Rei Ninja has a dodge of 22, and you only have a skill of 15, well odds
are you are going to miss.  If you roll a 24 to hit, 2 converts to +2 to 
damage.

(Actually, we have seperate attack and damage rolls, and before y'all
burn me on that, sperate rolls are used for Spells, why not tech.  The 
power pushed excess, or 'Impact" is added IF and only IF the base damage done
exceeds toughness.
     -- Burton
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: Trent Lange <lange@CS.UCLA.EDU>
Subject: Re: New rules cludge
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
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Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 21:14:10 GMT


>This is our house rule, which we've gone over to from the PowerPush
>system.  It's faster and easier to do, and it preserves all of the
>niceties of any such desired system.
>
>jas

Err, most of them.  :-)

- T.
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: wolf@cheshire.oxy.edu (Clinton Richard Wolf)
Subject: Re: Illusions outside Aysle
Organization: Occidental College, Los Angeles, CA 90041 USA.
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 21:05:05 GMT

In article <gatemail1.0b24712234616277@morticia> WYNNE.C@fs.sciences.WLU.EDU writes:
>michael@stb.info.com (Michael Gersten) writes:
>
>
>Why?  Spells aren't long range contradictions -- they are inherent in
>the pattern used by the caster.  If he has the pattern for an
>illusory bridge, then what does it matter where that bridge is?
>
 ooh! ooh! (waves hand frantically as memory is jogged...)
 Another question about the Relics of Power trilogy...
 Did people decide to make Caspar Babbidge an ord or a PR (he would seem to
be an ord, from the description they give of his background, which suggests
a spontaneous transformation...)
 Now here's the million dollar question. A normal spell doesn't cause a long-
range contradiction. But a ward/trigger spell (as is the 'message' he leaves
in the sunken Cambodian temple) DOES. Now, how is this ord throwing a long
range contradiction around everywhere? Should I just ignore it as the obvious
plot device it is, or does someone have a spare kludge they can lend me to
explain to my players? :)
From: hudson@dragon.cpe.ulowell.edu (Kevin Maurice Hudson)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
Subject: Thr Rocket Spell....
Date: 11 Sep 92 21:28:03 GMT
Organization: University of North Texas
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Actually, no.  The spell specifically states that gravity is turned
into heat.  This heat propells you, not air pressure.  Air pressure
would just as likely keep you on the ground as to push you upwards.

--
hudson@dragon.cpe.ulowell.edu		uhqfba@qentba.pcr.hybjryy.rqh
Kevin Hudson, Systems Manager		Xriva Uhqfba, Flfgrzf Znantre
Center for Productivity Enahncement	Pragre sbe Cebqhpgvivgl Ranuaprzrag
University of Massachusetts Lowell	Havirefvgl bs Znffnpuhfrggf Ybjryy
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: mly@sei.cmu.edu (Michael Yacht)
Subject: New rules cludge
Organization: Software Engineering Institute
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 21:37:39 GMT

Ok, yet another rules cludge from the mikester here.  Lately I have been 
fuystrated with the combat system.  I find it silly that:

"I'm harder to hit, I have a dodge of 22, but when I get hit, WHAMMO!"

That is silly...so I got my new cludge:

Choose the LOWER of the two for the damage bonus on a weapon:
a) The bonus # that you got from rolling
b) The amount over the number needed to hit  IE:  If JimBob rolls a 22 on his 
   die, yielding a +8 bonus to hit.  He gets a hit-total of 20, the villian had
   a dodge of 16.  He would get a +4 bonus to damage, not the +8 since the hit-
   total minus the dodge total was SMALLER than the effect bonus from the 
   initial die roll

Gonna test it out for the first time tonight.  We'll see how it goes.  My 
biggest concern is that it will slow down play, but we'll see.

-Mikey


-Mike Yacht -Carnegie Mellon University -- School of Computer Science
====================================================================
Mike Yacht             || specter+@CMU.EDU
"Mikey"                || mly@sei.cmu.edu
From: WYNNE.C@fs.sciences.WLU.EDU (Colin J. Wynne)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
Subject: Re: Illusions outside Aysle
Date: 8 Sep 92 15:38:17 GMT
Organization: University of North Texas
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gdavis@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Grant R. Davis) responds to me:

> > Just because something is real does *not* mean that it must
> > satisfy its own existence to all five senses.
>
> Yes, it does.

Alright, then.  Light is an illusion.  Smells are not real, and we're
obviously all suffering from a mass hallucination about this 'sound'
stuff.  I can't touch any of them, so they're obviously not real.

> > Are Psionics real?  What senses do you use to justify their
> > 'reality'?
>
> Psionics aren't illusions.

Neither are they provable by the traditional five senses.


An image of a bridge is real.  It can be seen, it exists.  To create
that bridge as an 'illusion' is to make the spell easier for the
caster at the expense of not having the caster be solely responsible
for the maintenance of the spell.

To use an 'illusion' of a bridge means that the caster sacrifices
ultimate control over the spell in order to make the pattern simpler -
- i.e., he need only provide a pattern to create the visual aspects
of a bridge, and a small part of the pattern to allow a sentient
target or targets to expand the result of the spell.

This 'illusion' rapes the minds of the targets to make itself more
complete, and to imitate the other qualities (beyond the mere image)
of the bridge.  The more people affected by the spell, the more the
spell can simulate the qualities of a bridge, such as holding weight,
limited only by the effect value (I believe -- it may be the cast
total or sime such) of the spell.

The other sacrifice the wizard makes in order to have a simpler spell
to cast is that when one target successfully withholds his support of
the spell (he 'disbelieves'), not only does the caster not get that
target's support for the spell, but that target also has the ability
to help other targets remove *their* support as well, which at some
point will utterly destroy any integrity possessed by the spell.

Personally, I think that the TORG magic system allows the best
explanation for illusions of any game I have yet seen.  Given the
premise that a spell is contained within its pattern, then an
illusion is just a way to make a spell easier by providing an
expandable pattern.  Whereas most patterns are rigid, mutable only by
powerful mages with all sorts of manipulation theorems, illusions are
designed to be flexible patterns that draw power from the targets to
expand the illusions and increase their abilities.

CJW

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
==  Colin J. Wynne                      wynne.c@fs.science.wlu.edu  ==
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
|      "If computers get too powerful, we can organise them          |
|            into a committee -- that will do them in."              |
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: ctalbott@mksol.dseg.ti.com (christopher j talbott)
Subject: Re: Spell Design of Feather Fall
Organization: Texas Instruments
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 13:10:23 GMT

In article <gatemail1.0b24712445716332@morticia>, hudson@dragon.cpe.ulowell.edu (Kevin Maurice Hudson) writes:
|> 
|> The least expensive and easiest is:
|> 
|> 	Alteration/Inanimate -> Magic -> Inanimate
|> 
|> I wouldn't use death in there at all unless you want some sort of
|> negative result.  Death tends to be a bit overwhelming and you would
|> have to design more than just destruction of Gravity into it in order
|> to account for its power.  Just look at it as transforming gravity
|> into lesser gravity.  I would make the effect value the amount of
|> weight that can be effected.  The rate of descent around .5m/s.
|> 
|> Keep in mind that you will probably want a cast time of 0 (1sec) so
|> the state path should be kept low to keep the process max low.
|> 
|> Actually to keep the numbers low, you could go for
|> 
|> 	Apportation/Folk -> Magic -> Inanimate Forces
|> 
|> Apportation has lower numbers than Alteration
|> 
|> Good luck
|> --
|> hudson@dragon.cpe.ulowell.edu		uhqfba@qentba.pcr.hybjryy.rqh
|> Kevin Hudson, Systems Manager		Xriva Uhqfba, Flfgrzf Znantre
|> Center for Productivity Enahncement	Pragre sbe Cebqhpgvivgl Ranuaprzrag
|> University of Massachusetts Lowell	Havirefvgl bs Znffnpuhfrggf Ybjryy

First of all, I'd like to thank everyone who replied to my plea for help,
especially Dave Oakes, who gave me my first laugh of the morning.

The Alteration/Inanimate -> Magic -> Death was intended to cancel out most of
the gravity, but I've a sneaking suspicion that adding Death as the result
would pretty much render everyone in the volume of effect completely weightless.
Hmmm...perhaps I could hire my mage out to NASA for astronaut training... :-)

Now Kevin's second suggestion (AppFolk/Magic/Inanimate) is kind of intriguing.
I assume (I don't have my sourcebook with me) that we'd be talking about "moving"
people only?  I'm not particularly concerned about the numbers, but I do want
to make sure that I can affect everything in the VoE.  The first one looks like
my best bet...now where did I put that Core Earth equation for terminal velocity?

Thanks again!

-Chris "Why is my sig bigger than yours?  Genetics." Talbott
-- 
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
/// Chris Talbott     ///////// ctalbott@mksol.dseg.ti.com ///////
/// Software Designer ///////// chris@ews7.dseg.ti.com     ///////
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
/// "There are very few personal problems that cannot be        //
///  solved through a suitable application of high explosives." //
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: oakes@jupiter.nmt.edu (David Oakes)
Subject: Re: The Gods and the Possibility Wars
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
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Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 01:59:24 GMT

jim (no, the other one) replies to my post:
 ! > [jim k's (the other jim) post on dieties deleted]
 ! > sucks being a god dont it?
 ! > omnicience + omnipotence = impotence
 ! > (if you can do anything, you do nothing, or are always doing something)
 ! [Three reasons the gods haven't been invoked to squash the High Lords yet:]
 ! > 1) the populace has yet to invoke them (cant/wont/hasnt occured to them)
 ! 	Maybe.  But the jakatts know how.  And some of them object to BK and
 ! Rec Pakken.

yeah, but miracles are more powerful in the hands of the majority,
just easier to be had by the "true believers"
(god as subconscious manifestation of the spirit axiom might be the best yet)

 ! > 2) the "god" doesnt care/different adgenda
 ! 	Sounds reasonable, but what agenda?  (See also Colin's post on why
 ! the gods don't interfere.)  I can't think of one more important than keeping
 ! the Torg from arising.

yeah, youd think god wouldnt want a TORG, and the destruction of everything,
but who knows what benefits THEY might gain from it?
maybe they are tired of being god, 
maybe they get to do something else afetr the universe as we know it is gone,
who knows?

 ! > 3) the "god" is actually incapable of doing so
 ! 	My personal favorite.

basically by acting, god removes the need to act -
the paradox of omnipotence (as shown very well in Marvel's Secret Wars iss 12)

 ! > the simplest excuse is that gods require faith,
 ! > and proof destroys true faith, so they dont do much
 ! 	Hrm, yeah, but there comes a problem with that and miracles.  Our 
 ! current version of 'faith' in a god is basically
 ! [Religion-Game-I'm-Not-Slamming-Religion-Warning]
 ! that of believing strongly in something which never really acts.  But in
 ! higher Spirit-axiom cosms, they *do* do stuff, which changes the definition 
 ! of faith here.

realise that in all the axioms, the higher it is, the more you get for less -
at higher and higher spiritual axioms, it may take less and less faith 
to perform miracles and create gods, until they are self supporting at 33?

 ! > dave "who can know the mind of god(s)?" oakes
 !   jim "i'm darned well gonna try" kiley

dave "bolt from the blue kills TORG GM, film at 11" oakes
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: "Colin J. Wynne"  <WYNNE.C@fs.sciences.WLU.EDU>
Subject:      Testing...
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
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Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 20:40:16 GMT

I'm moving to a new server and mail system, and I just want to make
sure everything is hunky-dorey with the net, here.

CJW

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
==  Colin J. Wynne                      wynne.c@fs.science.wlu.edu  ==
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
|      "If computers get too powerful, we can organise them          |
|            into a committee -- that will do them in."              |
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: "James H. Kiley" <jkiley@andy.bgsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Pure Zone effects on Characters
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
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Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 17:43:20 GMT



On Fri, 11 Sep 1992, Colin J. Wynne wrote:

> I recently ran the Land Below one act from the back of I-verse Update.  In
> fact, I ran it as the second act of the adventure I started writing up
> (and will finish, really!) as 'Mission in the Nile'.  This was the first
> time our characters have spent any significant amount of time adventuring
> in Pure Zones.  In fact, most of the adventure took placein either NE of
> LB pure zones.

I'm curious how it ran as I'm considering running it myself soon...

> There was some disagreement 'twixt my players and I concerning how a SK's
> personality is affected by the reality in which they find themselves.

Imagine. :)

> More or less, what I'm looking for here is who agrees or disagrees with my
> interpretation of Pure Zones.  And that is that, since WL's make up the
> general feeling and atmosphere for a cosm, then if you are in a Pure Zone
> and subject exclusively to those world laws, you will start behaving like
> a native, but without losing the overall sense of self needed to maintain
> your identity and your mission.

Actually, IMHO, your mission is secondary, your identity will be mostly
maintained... 
 
> And if a player refuses to act appropriately for the reality whose PZ he
> is in, I, as gm, shouldsimply assume that he is blowing a p-point every
> fifteen minutes.  Right?


Yes, yes, a thousand times yes.  That's a really good hook to 'enforce' 
appropriate roleplaying, too.  Players realize what's going on, so long as
you tell them *politely* of course that they have just spent a pp.  And
most of them will try to refigure their attitudes toward the adventure at
that point.

JimBob
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: bchapman@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Bruce Patrick Chapman)
Subject: Re: Thr Rocket Spell....
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
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Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 22:41:24 GMT

> 
> Actually, no.  The spell specifically states that gravity is turned
> into heat.  This heat propells you, not air pressure.  Air pressure
> would just as likely keep you on the ground as to push you upwards.
> 
	My though was that the force of gravity was converted to heat
as you were now ligher than air for your volume you floated into the
air in the same way a hot air balloon does (acctually much more like
an air bubble under water for the speed and the word float is too
gentle to be accurate). It seemed to me that the physics would work
better this way than with the idea that heat could produce force as a
reaction.


Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: Jim Ogle (Ks. Jim) <jogle@aoc.nrao.edu>
Subject: Re:  Illusions outside Aysle
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
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Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 07:24:24 GMT

Michael writes:

> Because an illusion of a bridge requires the law of observation to make it real,
> and capable of supporting weight. LOO(k) only operates within Aylse.
> Therefore, outside of Aylse it will hold no weight.

If you are talking about the illusion of a bridge being turned into a
real bridge, then yes, the Law of Observation would certainly be
capable of doing that.  

However, "illusion" has many meanings in the magic system.  It doesn't
just mean false images - almost any spell could be an illusion
depending on how it was created.  Illusions are just spells that don't
create the full desired pattern - they're "cheats".  (See the section
on illusions in the rulesbook.)


Kansas Jim (jogle@aoc.nrao.edu)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: oakes@jupiter.nmt.edu (David Oakes)
Subject: Re: Pure Zone effects on Characters
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
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Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 20:28:07 GMT

[clinton's post on Nile Pure Zones in the Destiny Map deleted]

you know, if it werent for the cyber-edinos,
i could have sworn i was reading a post on KS Jims game
(or at least the smooges)

did _everybody_ "pull a chewebacca" with their edinos,
and make time with a GM created Mathematician, drop dead beautiful too?
(let me guess - she had a weird science mind control perfume
 that acted as super skill charm...)

dave "so much for INFINITE possibilities" oakes
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: Robert Link <link@lcopt.physics.fsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Illusions outside Aysle
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
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Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 22:29:53 GMT

	Fireballs are not illusory spells if taken from the grimoire.  They
	are conjured from nothing, or altered from a ball of pitch.  You can
	disbelieve right until someone throws an asbestos blanket around you
	and rolls you on the ground.  You are still going to burn.
	
  Actually, Conjured Fireball can be disbelieved, as it is classed as an
illusion (i.e. any conjuration which uses as its mechanism something other
than Life, Death, Time, or True Knowledge).  Since the mechanism is Magic, 
the Mind total required is pretty obscene (18 if I remember right, but don't 
hold me to it).


-rpl

Internet:		link@lcopt.physics.fsu.edu
Snail-net:	        PO Box 61519
			Tally, FL 

"Abstinence is a good thing, if practiced in moderation."

Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: Jim Ogle (Ks. Jim) <jogle@aoc.nrao.edu>
Subject: Re: Pure Zone effects on Characters
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
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Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 23:38:40 GMT

Clint writes:

> >for TOTALLY pasive WLs, such as charm bonuses in CP,
> >make a roll each scene, or just dont bother -
> >
>  Nah. Just have them declare they're using the bonus or not, and if they are,
> they have a chance to disconnect on their Charm roll.

No no no no no no!  You cannot turn your world laws on and off like a
faucet!  If you've got a world law that gives you a bonus to something
you HAVE to use it regardless of if you want to or not (unless you are
disconnected or in an alien pure zone of course.)


Kansas Jim (jogle@aoc.nrao.edu)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: "James H. Kiley" <jkiley@andy.bgsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Gods (my, what a presumptuous argument!!)
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
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Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 20:20:30 GMT



On xxx, 8 Sep 1992, Colin J. Wynne wrote:

> OK, Jim, let's take another tack...

[Quantum mechancal foo snipped for the scientifically grumpy, but yes, 
Colin, I do know of what you speak. :) ]

> Either way, this gives us a track that starts with few possibilities,
> expands to countless, indeed, infinite, possibilities, and then
> funnels back down to none.

	Yup.

> Earth, obviously, is in the middle of that track, and that's why we
> are simply glutted with P-energy.  Now, how does this all fit in?
> 
> Let's take Jim's 'worse than Ords' gods.  They have lotsa p-points,
> and lots of power.  Their interaction with their various cosms is
> limited, of course, by spiritual axioms.  But, Spectacular divine
> invocations exist, and could be called down by the faithful.  So, why
> don't they just come and squash out this Gaunt Man dude?
> 
> Jim suggests a certain predetermination, a necessity of confronting
> the Apocalypse as it is fated.  This obviously means that they are
> being funneled down that branching track already.  They have power,
> but as the end approaches, their abilities are more and more confined
> by the limited possibilities of the situation.  They have free will,
> but predestination exists, to an extent, due to circumstance.  The
> gods' hands (or whatever) are tied.

	PreCISEly.  Thank you very much for being more eloquent than I. :)

> Here is my view of the situation, though.  The Wars exist on two
> levels, mortal and immortal.  We, the SK's, fight the battles on the
> earth, against the HL's, who are (as yet) mortal.
> 
> The gods rally against immortal threats -- gods of Apeiros vs. gods
> of the N.O.  Mortals can occassionally take part in the greater
> conflict, as in Rec Stalek, and the gods can help out in the mortal
> conflict (miracles and invocations).  But, for the most part, the
> battles are parallel and separate.

	Gaa.
	Y'see, I *like* that, it's easiest, but it goes against some Torg 
Dogma...  The conflict against the High Lords *is* the conflict against the
Nameless One, at its base level.  One of them will become Torg, the herald/
prophet/whatever of the Nameless One.  Smart gods will stomp on this. :)

> Not quite as metaphysical, but a little easier situation to
> understand, and I think it makes just as much sense.  The gods *are*
> doing what they can, but, hey!, they're gods!  Nobody says we have to
> be able to understand what they do!

	Hrm.  That, I fear, is another phrase I hate.  I like to have my gods
make sense to me as a GM, see. :)

	Ah well...

	JimBo
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg