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Date:         Fri, 4 Sep 1992 07:14:52 +0100
From:         KUBASKA@CSBBYS51.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Paradigm shift

Kamil,
The peple like Feldek,Kusy,Hoffman are maybe not trying to hurt the Slovakia.
But they allready did. I'm sorry, but I have no other expression for their
work, than treachery of national interests.
Have look at some newspapers : Pravda, Narodna obroda, Praca,... they
criticize the political life in Slovakia and that is good, but they see
the positive stuff as well.
But blind agrssive attacks, halftruth and lies of people you mentioned
is nothing else than bad hidden hate to the state that is about to be born.

Marian Kubaska
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.slovak-l
Date:         Fri, 4 Sep 1992 10:08:50 PDT
From:         lhdsy1!HOVMB.HOU281.CHEVRON.COM!TKMARC@UUNET.UU.NET
Subject:      Slovak national interests

>The peple like Feldek,Kusy,Hoffman are maybe not trying to hurt the Slovakia.
>But they allready did. I'm sorry, but I have no other expression for their
>work, than treachery of national interests.
>...
>But blind agrssive attacks, halftruth and lies of people you mentioned
>is nothing else than bad hidden hate to the state that is about to be born.
>
>Marian Kubaska

Marian:

Tell us, what are the national interests of Slovakia? In my
posting I used the term "living conditions," which to me includes
well-being in all aspect of life--economy, culture, politics, social
issues, etc. I believe this is an interest of all people. I also think
that these are the things people you mention consider to be the
national interests of Slovakia. (Can't speak for Kusy or Feldek as
I don't know them, but I feel pretty certain this is true for
Hoffman.) In this respect, I think it is the nationalists and the
populist of Slovakia (the Prokes's, Meciar's, etc) who are damaging
Slovak interests.

Also, I get goose bumps when I hear expressions like "treachery" in
this context. You know, Marian, treachery is a very serious crime,
in CSFR as well as everywhere else. This kind of talk comes from
the people ranging from ordinary citizens all the way to the government
officials. You people are surprised when the world wonders how
democratic independent Slovakia would be?

I can name dozens of journalist and politicians and other public figures
here in the US that I that we'd all be better off without. Often I wish
they'd shut up and disappear. But never would I call them "treachers."
I think it is in the national interests of Slovakia to learn this
lesson.

--Kamil Marcinka (Internet address: tkmarc@hovmb.ion.chevron.com)
From: DUREJ@UAKOM.CS
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.slovak-l
Subject: Re: poetry in slovakia
Date: 4 Sep 92 07:15:23 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Mailer:     Pegasus Mail v2.3 (R3).

> Well, enough is enough. I'll tune back in after Meciar's coronation.
>
> H.K.

  O.K.

  Respectfully,

  Ondrej Durej
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.slovak-l
Date:         Thu, 3 Sep 1992 12:18:11 EST
From:         HAMMERL@UCS.INDIANA.EDU
Subject:      Dubcek, Dam, Constitution

RFE/RL report

DUBCEK REGAINS CONSCIOUSNESS.  A physician in Prague, where
Alexander Dubcek is hospitalized after a car crash, said that
Dubcek regained consciousness following a three-hour spine
operation on 2 September but his condition remains serious. Former
Czechoslovak president Vaclav Havel visited Dubcek in the hospital
and had a short conversation with him. (Jiri Pehe, RFE/RL Inc.)

HUNGARIAN FOREIGN MINISTER IN SLOVAKIA. Geza Jeszenszky met with
Slovak officials in Bratislava on 2 September, Czechoslovak and
Hungarian media report.  Slovak Premier Vladimir Meciar said that
Hungary would like to conclude an agreement with Slovakia on the
treatment of ethnic minorities, but Slovakia "has reservations" and
looks to Hungary first to provide an example by good treatment of
its Slovak minority.  Slovak Foreign Minister Milan Knazko said
that Hungary could be one of the first countries to recognize an
independent Slovakia.  Knazko also said that one meeting with
Jeszenszky will not be enough to solve the Slovak-Hungarian dispute
over the Gabcikovo-Nagymaros hydroelectric project.  Jeszenszky
told Radio Budapest the same day that his government "understands"
Slovakia's efforts toward attaining independence and will accept
any decision taken by the Slovak and Czech peoples regarding their
future. He said Slovakia's independence provides "great
opportunities" for deepening bilateral relations in all fields,
notably the economic, and for solving contentious issues such as
the Danube dam. Jeszenszky said Hungary would welcome a mutual
agreement about ways to coexist reached among Slovakia's citizens
of Slovak, Magyar, and other national origin.  (Jiri Pehe & Alfred
Reisch, RFE/RL Inc.)

ETHNIC HUNGARIAN DEPUTIES EXPLAIN WALKOUT. According to the Magyar
deputies in Slovakia's parliament, the new Slovak constitution
adopted on 1 September does not guarantee the protection of
Slovakia's national minorities, Radio Budapest reported on 2
September.  Miklos Duray, chairman of the Coexistence Political
Movement, said the constitution should not have been adopted. Bela
Bugar, chairman of the Hungarian Christian Democratic Movement,
said the Magyar deputies walked out of parliament to protest the
narrowing of minority rights after none of the amendments submitted
by the Magyar deputies was accepted.  (Alfred Reisch, RFE/RL Inc.)
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Via: uk.ac.mrc-crc; Tue, 1 Sep 1992 09:10:54 +0100
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.slovak-l
Date:         Tue, 1 Sep 1992 09:10:41 BST
From:         Francis Rysavy x3292 <frysavy@MRC-CRC.AC.UK>
Subject:      Re: poetry in slovakia
X-To:         SLOVAK-L@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu

>
> This is a voice from Slovakia:
>
> >Was it necessary to punish the ethnic Germans in that way, as
> >they did? According to inofficial figures approximately 250 000
> >Germans were killed in Bohemia after the WWII - without any
> >court, evidence about fascist activities etc. I don't know, if
> >any European nation in the history tried to solve an ethnic
> >problem in that way, as the Czechs did. Today we are shocked by
> >the cruelty of the ethnic conflict in Bosnia - Hercegovina.  But
> >if you follow the philosophical roots of this intollerancy, you
> >have to open this sad chapter of the Czech history, too.
>
> >Jan Szelepcsenyi
>
>
> Whatever one may think of the Potsdam agreement (US, UK, France and USSR)
> about expelling the Sudeten Germans from Czechoslovakia (and, for that matter,
> a much larger number of ethnic Germans from the new Polish territories),
> 250 000 Germans killed by Czechs is a vicious lie! German historians have now
> established (references appeared a few months ago on Mideur-L list) that the
> number of those killed was very small. 250 000 would represent almost 10% of
> Sudenten population. It is not only untrue, it is patently ridiculous.
>
> However, I fully agree with Mr. Havranek that the Czech and Slovak Republics
> should separate as soon as possible (with different currencies) which, we
> may hope, will give everybody a chance to regain sanity. And the Czechs (and
> I say that as an American) will get the chance of escaping the constant
> Slovak attacks. The Slovaks will then have to take reponsibility for their
> own affairs, at least in the eyes of the world, if not their own.
>
> Henry Kucera, Providence, RI, USA
>

The plot really thickens. Are there any historical facts rather than
emotions supporting these allegations. They might be of great interest
to those who or whose families were expelled from the Sudetenland. I
have so far naively believed that it was the Soviets rather than than
the Czechs themselves who convinced the allies about the need to expel
the Sudeten Germans from Czechoslovakia. Their motivation allegedly was
that with the Germans inside the country the communists would never get
in power.  Are there any reliable facts available ?

Francis R.Rysavy Harrow, UK
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Apparently-To: slovak-l@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.slovak-l
Date:         Thu, 3 Sep 1992 14:01:43 EDT
From:         Eva Zeisky <eva@PUHEP1.PRINCETON.EDU>

Is the Constitution available anywhere in its entirety? There are references
made to bits and pieces of it but I would love to read the whole thing.

Thanks,

Eva Zeisky
eva@puhep1.princeton.edu
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Date:         Thu, 3 Sep 1992 07:27:31 +0100
From:         KUBASKA@CSBBYS51.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Constitution of Slovak republic

Dear Mr. Masek,
There certainly are people who don't agree with this constitution.
But I can't figure it out why should our parliament and our goverment
learn it. I think they allready know it.
Please write to subscribers of this list the issues where the constitution
is of indifferent content.
Please, give them the names of concrete people or political parties which
were elaborated as national enemies. And give them the names of concret people
who elaborated them, as well.
Then I will be able to respond, your contribution, you want me to respond at,
is nothing else but play upon the words, so far.

Marian Kubaska
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.slovak-l
Date:         Mon, 31 Aug 1992 19:29:44 EDT
From:         Henry Kucera <HENRY@BROWNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: poetry in slovakia

This is a voice from Slovakia:

>Was it necessary to punish the ethnic Germans in that way, as
>they did? According to inofficial figures approximately 250 000
>Germans were killed in Bohemia after the WWII - without any
>court, evidence about fascist activities etc. I don't know, if
>any European nation in the history tried to solve an ethnic
>problem in that way, as the Czechs did. Today we are shocked by
>the cruelty of the ethnic conflict in Bosnia - Hercegovina.  But
>if you follow the philosophical roots of this intollerancy, you
>have to open this sad chapter of the Czech history, too.

>Jan Szelepcsenyi


Whatever one may think of the Potsdam agreement (US, UK, France and USSR)
about expelling the Sudeten Germans from Czechoslovakia (and, for that matter,
a much larger number of ethnic Germans from the new Polish territories),
250 000 Germans killed by Czechs is a vicious lie! German historians have now
established (references appeared a few months ago on Mideur-L list) that the
number of those killed was very small. 250 000 would represent almost 10% of
Sudenten population. It is not only untrue, it is patently ridiculous.

However, I fully agree with Mr. Havranek that the Czech and Slovak Republics
should separate as soon as possible (with different currencies) which, we
may hope, will give everybody a chance to regain sanity. And the Czechs (and
I say that as an American) will get the chance of escaping the constant
Slovak attacks. The Slovaks will then have to take reponsibility for their
own affairs, at least in the eyes of the world, if not their own.

Henry Kucera, Providence, RI, USA
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X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.slovak-l
Date:         Wed, 26 Aug 1992 14:00:59 EDT
From:         George Frajkor <gfrajkor@CCS.CARLETON.CA>
Subject:      Re: Slovaks/Hungarians
X-To:         SLOVAK-L@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu
              Sanders" at Jul 21, 92 12:34 pm

David E. Sanders writes:

>My father's family came from south-eastern Slovakia, more specifically Kosice,
> Dubrava, Presov, Velky-Saris, etc.  I am attempting to find out how to trace
> my lost family in Slovakia.  The last contact I know of was in 1961, over 30
> years ago.  Also, I want to find out more about my ancestors.
> Two of these names are very very common, Novak and Sandor.  Also, I have some
> reason to believe that the Sandor's came originally from further south, from
> what is now actually Hungary.
> David Ervin Sanders (but father was born Sandor)
>
      Try:
  Slovenska Genealogicko-heraldicka spolocnost
     Matica Slovenska
   Novomeskeho 32
   036 52  Martin
    Slovak republic
    CSFR
  telephone  42  0842 31371, ext. 459

  they are accumulating quite a good database of people bron in
Slovakia from quite long ago.
   ahoj


    Jan George Frajkor
 School of Journalism                      _!_
 Carleton University,                     __!__
 Ottawa, Ontario                            !
 Canada K1S 5B6                             !
   -- gfrajkor@ccs.carleton.ca --          /^\
  613 788-7404     fax:613 788-5604    /^\/   \/^\
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.slovak-l
Date:         Mon, 31 Aug 1992 13:38:21 EDT
From:         BARBARA BANJAK <UN3600@SRU.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: CONTACT IN BANSKA BYSTRICE
              29 Aug 1992 09:06:43 DST from <janszel@POSEN.MFF.UNIBA.CS>

Ahoj Jan,
     Most of our echange students from Komensky and the Fine Arts
Academy are for one or two semesters.  We have had one student from
Komensky graduate last year from Slippery Rock University with a
degree in English.  We have also had many students come and study
only art courses.  This year we have a graduate student from Komensky
who will be here for a year and complete her Master's degree in History.
Two students from the Komensky are here for the year and will be getting
a degree in Sports Management.  We also have one young lady from Komensky
and the School of Philosophy.  The remainder of the students are all
art majors from the Fine Arts Academy and are studying in our Art
Department.  Barbara.
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Date:         Sat, 29 Aug 1992 09:06:43 DST
From:         Jan Szelepcsenyi <janszel@POSEN.MFF.UNIBA.CS>
Subject:      Re: CONTACT IN BANSKA BYSTRICE
X-To:         Discussion of Slovak issues <SLOVAK-L@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu>

Hi Barbara,

may I learn which curses the 10 students from
Slovakia will attend?

Thanks,

Jan
--
Jan Szelepcsenyi                        	Telephone: + 42 7 220863
janszel@posen.mff.uniba.cs              	Address  : ul. A. Mraza 4
                                                	   821 03 Bratislava
							   Czechoslovakia
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.slovak-l
Date:         Sat, 29 Aug 1992 17:11:42 -0400
From:         George Frajkor <gfrajkor@CCS.CARLETON.CA>
Subject:      post
X-To:         journet@ubvm.BITNET, Slovak-L <Slovak-L@ubvm.BITNET>

  Does anyone know of articles written by Mrs. Mary Battiata in the
Washington Post about Slovakia...  she is a foreign correspondent for
East Europe and she was there before the June elections.
    We have seen nothing since of coverage.  If anyone knows what she
wrote we would appreciate clippings or references.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.slovak-l
Date:         Fri, 28 Aug 1992 10:48:54 EDT
From:         Richard Budd <KLUB@MARISTB.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Addressing

> This raises an interesting question. Does it make any difference in sending it
> ms to Slovakia whether one addresses the mail Slovakia or Czech & Slovak FEd.
> epublic or Czechoslovakia?  My experience is that it takes from 10 days to two
> weeks from US to Bratislava.  What have others expeienced? Stan Brunn

For written mail, 7-9 days from Kral'ovsky Chlmec, 10 days from Kosice,
14 days from Bardejov.  In the case of Bardejov, that was in early 1991.
Correspondences with Bratislava are exclusively on email, but a junior
high student exchange reports about 7-10 days for mail to come from
Bratislava to New York.
The return address on mail from Slovakia has all been CZECHOSLOVAKIA.
I mail out letters to CZECHO-SLOVAKIA.  With the dissolution of the
federation imminent, a good question to ask would be how zip codes and
country addressing will be affected.
========================================================================
Richard Budd              | E-Mail-Bitnet:  -klub@maristb.bitnet
139 South Hamilton Street | Phone -Voice:   -+1 914 454 5803
Poughkeepsie, NY 12601    |       -Fax:     -+1 914 473 5674
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Coordinates:   LAT 41d 41m 30s N  LONG 73d 56m 00s W   | HAVE LAPTOP,
Node Location: Marist College, Poughkeepsie, New York  | WILL TRAVEL
========================================================================
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Date:         Mon, 31 Aug 1992 07:11:00 +0100
From:         KUBASKA@CSBBYS51.BITNET
Subject:      Re: CONTACT IN BANSKA BYSTRICE

I'm not sure if I'm the man your student is looking for.
But here is my address:
    KUBASKA@UAKOM.CS
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Date:         Fri, 4 Sep 1992 12:46:45 METDST
From:         Masek <usarmase@SAVBA.CS>
Subject:      Re: Paradigm shift

Mr.Kubaska writes:
>    ...  Feldek,   Kusy,  Hoffman  ...   treachery  of  national
>    interests.


In the first "Re" I consider  only about the vague term "national
interest".  But  there  is  much  more.  Remember  on the list of
national enemies, compare with "treachery of national interests".
You are very near!
As friend of  Ivan Hoffman I must remark that  I shall inform him
promptly about  your contribution. You  must consider that  he is
not  subscriber  of  MIDEUR-L  and  SLOVAK-L,  he is not present.
However I believe  that you will tell him  "treachery of national
interests" face to face without problem.
Best regards
Martin Masek,Bratislava
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.slovak-l
Date:         Thu, 3 Sep 1992 17:51:54 EDT
From:         Henry Kucera <HENRY@BROWNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: poetry in slovakia

 G. Frajkor, regarding Benes's succes in expelling Germans:

>             I stand by my original posting.  Kucera should now find
>references to support his position.
>

No need, you just did it for me. As I said, Benes must have been a political
genius convicing all those big powers to play his game.

>> >Give credit to the Communists -- once they came to power in the
>> >CSFR (or whatever its name was then) they actually halted the
>> >deportations.
>>
>> The Communists came to absolute power in February 1948. All the Germans were
>> gone by then.
>
>
>       Glad you noticed Henry.  That was my point... that the Czechs
>acted swiftly and brutally so that by the time the Communists took
>power and halted the deportations, the Germans were gone but the
>Hungarians remained in Slovakia.

 How is that again? I thought you said (supra) that the Communists halted the
deportations. I gather you wanted them to deport the Hungarians as well?
Swiftly and brutally? Just like the Slovaks did to Jews in WW2? You know, the
Germans (including the Sudeten ones) behaved atrociously towards the Czechs for
some six years. Perhaps the situation should have been handled differently.
However, the Jews did nothing to Messrs. Tiso, Tuka and Co. except for their
race. It would not be an issue if--as Mr. Marcinka so well said--the Slovak
state 1939-45 were not so readily defended or even idealized by nationalist
Slovaks even today. Unfortunately, it is.
>>
>> >It was not completed when the Communists halted it.  Your impression
>> >that it was a Commy idea probably comes from a recent article in
>> >Lidove Noviny, which is specializing these days in denying history.
>>
>>   The man can read our mind!
>
>         Yes.
>
>
>
>    Jan George Frajkor

  All the other people who thought they could read minds are now in the care
of various physicians.

Well, enough is enough. I'll tune back in after Meciar's coronation.

H.K.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.nodmgt-l
Date:         Thu, 3 Sep 1992 13:14:18 EDT
From:         Larry Snodgrass <SNODGRAS@BITNIC.BITNET>
Subject:      UPDATE cutoff extension

If you are a member of EARN, NetNorth or Gulfnet you can ignore this mail.

The topology enhancements that were added to the Update Verification
Program (UPDATE@BITNIC) last month have reduced the number of errors
encountered during the verification process enough that we have
decided to extend the deadline for submitting updates.  Until further
notice, the deadline for submitting updates to UPDATE@BITNIC for
inclusion in the next month's distribution of the BITEARN NODES file
and routing tables will be midnight on the 20th of each month unless
the 20th falls on a Friday, Saturday or Sunday, in which case the
deadline will be the following Monday at midnight.  For example:

If the 20th is on:          The cutoff date is midnight the:

   Monday                             the 20th
   Tuesday                            the 20th
   Wednesday                          the 20th
   Thursday                           the 20th
   Friday                          Monday the 23rd
   Saturday                        Monday the 22nd
   Sunday                          Monday the 21st

The reason for this staggered cutoff schedule is to allow techreps
and node administrators to respond to topology update requests that
have been submitted by another techrep or node administrator late on
Friday or Saturday or Sunday.  Of course this will not help for
topology updates that are submitted at 11:00 pm on the cutoff date,
so *please* submit topology updates that require approval by another
techrep/node adminstrator as early in the update cycle as possible.

Thanks for your patience and support, and we hope you find this new
cutoff date helpful.

Larry Snodgrass
BITNIC
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Organization: Princeton University, Network Systems, Class. 56
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.nodmgt-l
Date:         Mon, 31 Aug 1992 19:22:53 -0400
From:         gettes@PRINCETON.EDU
Subject:      Re: MAILER NAMES file
              31 Aug 92 22:23:51 +0000. <9208312321.AA04698@Princeton.EDU>

On Mon, 31 Aug 92 22:23:51 +0000 schafer@is.rice.edu said:
> Is there really any likelihood that a new flood of mail only nodes will appear
> after several years of just dead ones in that file?  I see every reason to
> retire MAILER NAMES; I see less reason to invent a new set of tags in
> BITEARN NODES to support a function no one is likely to use.
>
> --
> Richard

Hey, you beat me to it!!!

I second the vote!

/mrg
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Date:         Thu, 3 Sep 1992 13:02:01 CDT
From:         "McMahon,Brian D" <MCMAHON@GRIN1.BITNET>
Subject:      Missing Student
Comments: To: MIDNET-L@KSUVM.BITNET

Gentle Netfolk,

Grinnell College has lost one of its own.  The body of a young woman
discovered several days ago in southern Missouri has been positively
identified as that of missing Grinnell College senior Tammy Zywicki.

Tragic though the news may be, I would like to thank you all on behalf of
the Grinnell College community for the support shown on the network.  Your
kind efforts and concern are greatly appreciated, as I am sure are your
prayers.

Again, my thanks.  I am sorry the news is not better.

Brian McMahon (BDM13)    <MCMAHON@GRIN1.BITNET>    <MCMAHON@AC.GRIN.EDU>
Postmaster / Acad. Software Support   Grinnell College Computer Services
Grinnell, Iowa 50112 USA   Voice: +1 515 269 4901   Fax: +1 515 269 4936
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