From: yiannis@wam.umd.edu (IOANNIS VELISSARAKOS  ATHINA-HELLAS)
Subject: Re: EDUCATION SPECIAL: MAP OF THE WORLD
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 00:22:49 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.191328.8445@sunbim.be> sk@sunbim.be () writes:
>in article <BszI5L.20o@news.cso.uiuc.edu> on 14 Aug 92 17:34:31 GMT
>varnavas@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (varnavas constantine) writes:
>
>
> varnavas> The history I stand behind is that there is
> varnavas> no connection between the Republic of Scopje
> varnavas> and Macedonians.  To use the Macedonian name
> varnavas> and the Macedonian symbols is a forgery.  THe
> varnavas> "Republic of Macedonia" is an artificial
> varnavas> creation of Tito.  Now, tell me what is the
> varnavas> history you stand behind?  I will be
> varnavas> anxiously waiting to rebattle.
>
>
> I would like to make it clear that Macedonians DO exist. 

           where do you guys exist?

>We are Macedonians - just as you are what you 
>say you are.
>

	If you are a Macedonian then what I am? An Arian?? :))

>   Ethnicity is simply self identity and governments should 
>acknowledge self identity as a matter of fact. Let me ask you,
>what is an American, what is an Australian, what is a Canadian?
>We respect everyone's self identity and we expect the same
>in return. The Macedonian people also deserve a place under 
>the sun without too many "Godfathers" or Greek mythology about
>the days of cavemen.  
>
>  The Macedonians, Greeks, Serbians, and other Balkan people
>should look to the future and not the past. 
>

	The Greek Government has offered some kind of help to you 
	 guys, but you insist on using: a) A GREEK NAME,
					b) THE FLAG OF ALEXANDER THE GREAT
					c) THE MACEDONIAN HISTORY
					d) DANGEROUS POLITIC ACTIONS
					e) DANGEROUS CONSTITUTION
	And finally, YOU also look at the past saying that Alexander and
         MAcedonians weren't Greeks. Some of you also have said that the
         were only Slavic-Macedonians and not GREEK-MACEDONIANS (???)


                                          
>   Macedonia had the name long before 1944 when "Tito assigned
>it that name". This can imediately and firmly be shown by
>consulting a number of unprejudiced historians and writers
>[Schevill 1922, Brailsford 1906, Moore 1971, PH 1920, den
>Doolaard 1934, Stavrianos 1958, TNCMH 1968, Woodhouse 1986].
>In this books the proof can be found that the Macedonian
>nationality existed before the Second World War. This is in
>contradiction to the hypothesis that the Macedonian people are
>invented by Tito. The history of the Macedonian people is well
>explained in previous postings on the newsnet, namely the
>translation of the newspaper article from Dr. Detrez.
>
>The territory of NOrthern Greece was called
>Northern Hellas and in Novermber 1988, it was renamed Macedonia
>and Trace. Why?
>

	TI allo 0a akousoume; #%^%^$%&*&&^&^#%^

	WE CHANGED THE NAME Of the Northern Greece (which was called
         (Northern Hellas according to... YOU (who else???) ) to 
         MACEDONIA AND THRACE??? Are you serious NOW? We never called
	 MACEDONIA AND THRACE anything else. The names are there for 
         4,000 years. What you do think we are trying to use the same
         method as you are? For what reason? For not:   
   	 		a) having a history (and we want to create some)?
			b) having a country (and we want to create one) ?
			c) having a language(and we want to create one) ? 
			d) having an identity(and we want to create one)?
			e) HAVING A PAST    (and we want to create one) ?
                        f) having culture   (and we want to create some)?


	    FOR WHAT ANYWAY?   FOR WHAT FOR GOD'S SHAKE??


>   The Greek propaganda machine is hard at work spreading lies
>but the truth will prevail.
>
 
	The Greek Propaganda Machine? Which one? The one which tries 
         to keep ITS PEOPLE OUT OF WAR? The one which tries to keep 
	 its NAMES? The one which tries to show to the rest of the world
         HOW DANGEROUS THE SKOPJEANS ARE? The one which tries to keep
	 ITS HISTORY, CULTURE AND INHERITANCE FOR ITS PEOPLE AND ONLY
 	 FOR THEM. The one which tries to PROTECT its history from THIEFS
	 like the Skopjean Government AND Communist Leader Tito???

	Are the above the lies that the Greek Propaganda tries to spread?
         If these are the lies THEN   Y E S   I  SUPPORT my Government
  	 and its propaganda   1 0 0  %  !!!!. 

	But you Sasa why don't you tell us about the Skopjean Propaganda?
         You seem to me that YOU KNOW LOTS OF THINGS ABOUT THAT... And tell
         us about your Constitution and about the dreams YOU HAVE for 
         Thessaloniki and Aegean.... ???


>Sasa.
>


	Yiannis Velissarakos
	University of Maryland



>BIBLIOGRAPHY:
>
>[Brailsford 1906] Brailsford, H. N., Macedonia: It's races and
>their future., 1906, reprint: Arno Press, New York, 1971.
>
>[den Doolaard 1934] den Doolard, A., Orient-Express, Eerste
>druk 1934, opgenomen in de Salamander 1955, herdrukt 1963, Em.
>Querido's Uitgeverij N.V.  Amsterdam.
>
>[Moore 1971] Moore Frederik, The Balkan Trial, reprint:
>Eastern Europe Collec- tion, New York, 1971.
>
>[PC 1920] Peace Handbooks, (Issued by the Hist. Secction of
>the British foreign office 1920), vol. IV Macedonia.
>
>[Schevill 1922] Schevill, Ferdinand, The history of the Balkan
>Peninsula, Harcourt, Brace and Inc., New York, 1992, reprinted
>edition 1971 by Arno Press, New York.
>
>[Stavrianos 1958] Stavrianos, L.S., The Balkans since 1453,
>professor of History, Northwestern University, Reinhart &
>Comp. Inc., New York, 1958.
>
>[TNCMH 1968] The New Cambridge Modern History, Volume XII
>(Second edi- tion), edited by: C. L. Mowat, Cambridge at the
>University Press, 1968.
>
>[Woodhouse 1986] Woodhouse, C.M., Modern Greece, New Fourth
>Edition, Faber and Faber, London, 1986.
>
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>= Sasa Konecni                     e-mail: sk@sunbim.be           =
>= BIM   sa/nv                      tel:    +32 (2) 759.59.25      =
>= Research & Development           fax:    +32 (2) 759.47.95      =
>= Kwikstraat 4,   B-3078 Everberg,    Belgium                     =
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=


  	BIBLIOGRAPHY???? Tell me a number and I send you references....
	 How many do you want? 1? 100? 1000? 10,000? 1,000,000? 
	 10,000,000? Tell me. How many references for Books DO YOU 
	 want?? I'm waiting......


YIannis Velissarakos

MACEDONIA WAS, IS AND WILL BE FOREVER GREEK!!!!

Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia