HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: elw4@po.CWRU.Edu (Evan L. Werkema)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: GE chugging
Date: 17 Nov 1992 06:06:45 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: elw4@po.CWRU.Edu (Evan L. Werkema)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc5.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, U93_PTUPACZE@VAXC.STEVENS-TECH.EDU (Prime Mover Software Development) says:

>Ah, yes, a favorite topic of mine...
>
>GE's chugging have long been a part of my railroad memories. I grew up on the 
>Erie Lackawanna Boonton Line, and their freight U33C/U36C's were fairly 
>common. But even better were their U34CH commuter units - their HEP generators 
>were run off the prime mover; hence, they were always running at the 
>equivalent of Run 6 - so you can imagine the sound as they accelerated from a 
>stop! WOW!  Today's Susquehanna's DASH 8-40B's still have that familiar GE 
>chug, though I think GE's figured out how to quiet 'em down - you can only 
>hear the Suskie's units when they notch out climbing up Sparta Mountain or on 
>the grade out of Butler. The spirit is still there.

  GE came up with an exhaust silencer in 1980 to comply with EPA regulations.
The "fat" stack on late Dash-7's and Dash-8's is a result.  They are much
quieter than the old stacks...I was surprised to hear how loud a old U36C was 
compared to a C30-7.  Amtrak's DASH 8-32BWH's draw HEP off the main generators
too, but they're still fairly quiet beasts, and FAR quieter than an F40PH.


>As for explanations... GE's and Alcos share a common trait: four-cycle 
>engines. 

  They share more than that...GE's FDL-16 has the same bore, stroke, and RPM
as the Alco 251.  I made some recordings of GBW C424's last summer, and 
was surprised at how similar they sounded to the B23-7's I got on the ATSF.


>GM's have a two-cycle engine, which "explodes" its cylinders at a 
>high rate of speed. The four-cycle timing of GE's and Alcos allows a short 
>pause, and a deadening of sound temporarily before the next "explosion." I 
>think this allows the sound to reverbrate better, and makes the next 
>"explosion" seem more loud; hence, the "stalk-chopper" sound.

  We liked to call them "cabbage cutters," but now that they've muffled them,
the discriptor isn't quite so apt.

>Another neat sound I enjoy are turbocharged EMD's - especially the 50/60 
>series. Their turbochargers are slightly more melodic, but they all have that 
>neat high-pitched humming...

  I haven't noticed it on any other engine, but DASH 8-40B's seem to have
a charasteristic whine they emit under load.  It makes them easy to pick out
in recordings.
-- 
   -----_._._,_,,_,__._._     _._.__,_,,_,_._._----      
  _Ioo I ===        ====I     I====        === IooI____   I~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~I
|_II___I____Santa Fe____I_| |_I__Evan Werkema__I__I___I_| I elw4@po.cwru.edu I
`-~O==O~===========~O==O~-`~`-~O==O~=============~O==O~-`~~o==o~\/~\/~\/~o==o~
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: terryfry@access.digex.com (Terry Fry)
Subject: Re: Amtrak List of Trains by # (LOOONG) (fwd)
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, Maryland USA
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 00:15:10 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.144544.24267@bony1.bony.com> billg@bony1.bony.com (Bill Gripp) writes:
>In article <TML.92Nov16103137@hemuli.tik.vtt.fi> tml@tik.vtt.fi (Tor Lillqvist) writes:
>>In article <Pine.3.05.9211151945.A26182-e100000@uafhp.uark.edu> plaws@uafhp.uark.edu (Peter Laws) writes:
>>    1) Taken from _Amtrak System Train Timetables_, valid through 4/3/93.
>>
>>     1 Sunset Ltd.             NOL LAX 136 Comb w/21 SAS
>>			       ^^^ ^^^
>>
>>Why does Amtrak use what I assume are *airport* designators for
>>stations? Isn't that both stupid, as trains are supposed to compete
>>with airplanes, and misleading, as many cities have several airports,
>>none of which presumably are as conveniently located as the railway
>>station(s)?
>
>I don't know where Amtrak came up with it's abreviations, but is it
>possible that some were adopted from the roads over which Amtrak
>opperates?  Could it be that the RR's used LAX first?

No.... that's a airline code.  Amtrak has its own subset of codes,
but they had started out trying to use the airline systems codes.

Its now even more confusing.
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: jtbell@hubcap.clemson.edu (Jon Bell)
Subject: Re: Staten Island Rapid Transit
Organization: Presbyterian College, Clinton SC
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 23:45:53 GMT

In article <1992Nov19.192446.5862@news.columbia.edu> brennan@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Joseph Brennan) writes:

>Jon Bell summarized but with some inaccuracy.  SIRT is operated by its
>own public agency, the Staten Island Rapid Transit Operating Authority,
>controlled by the MTA.  The electric MUs are slightly modified R44
>subway cars (some details had to be changed to meet ICC standards--
>not sure what).

Thanks for the corrections and the many other interesting details.
After I posted, I remembered the subway-style seating and realized that
SIRT cars couldn't be the commuter-rail type.  I _do_ remember them
as looking different somehow from the usual subway stock, but it's been
seven years now...

Another interesting way to do an SIRT excursion is to take the subway
to Bay Ridge (Brooklyn), then a bus over the Verazzano-Narrows Bridge, 
then the SIRT, and finally the ferry back to Manhattan.

Jon Bell / Dept. of Physics & Comp. Sci. / Presbyterian College / Clinton SC
From: hostler@diane.ucsb.edu (David Hartsough)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: U.S. railroad maps (topo maps)
Date: 15 Nov 92 18:10:14 GMT
Distribution: na

I work at a store which carries topos for the entire U.S.  When
we receive a new edition of a map, we cut the title corners off the old 
editions, send the titles back to USGS for some credit, and recycle
the rest of the old maps in various ways, including "topolopes" -
topo envelopes.  

People come in occasionally looking for old editions, but we can't
help them.

David
From: johnm@hpmcaa.mcm.hp.com (John Mosbarger)
Subject: Re: Vandalism
Organization: HP Cardiology Business Unit - McMinnville, OR
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 17:08:59 GMT

David Bromage (brom@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au) wrote:

[.....]

: I believe in some US ciies, trains are shot at. Can anyone elaborate?
: 
: David

     A couple of years ago, an SP caboose on a southbound train north of
Klamath Falls took some bullets.  With the large population of Native
Americans in the area, noone was really surprised.  Maybe that contributed
to the demise of the caboose:  Fewer targets :-).

John

--
*****************************************************************************
| John Mosbarger          |                                                 |
|                         |     "One thing the world needs is popular       |
| HP McMinnville, OR      |      government at popular prices."             |
|                         | 	                     --George Barker        |
| johnm@hpmcaa.mcm.hp.com |                     	                    |
|***************************************************************************|
|                     Opinions are mine and mine alone.                     |
*****************************************************************************
From: hudson@pnet51.orb.mn.org (Hudson Leighton)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Why do GE's "Chug"?
Date: 19 Nov 92 15:25:05 GMT
Organization: People-Net [pnet51], Minneapolis, MN.

I watched a repair man shut off all of the injectors on a Alco Switcher
except one now that sounded weird it did stay running.

He was looking for something and ran the engine on each cylinder in turn,
ideling of course


UUCP: {crash tcnet}!orbit!pnet51!hudson
INET: hudson@pnet51.orb.mn.org
ICBM: Lat. 44.59 x lon. 93.13
HAM:  N0NMX  444.100 repeater
Advertisement: Try the Railway Post Office BBS (612) 377-2197 a Railfan BBS
From: tom@drutx.ATT.COM (MaddenTC)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Stupid People
Summary: Personal responsibility
Date: 18 Nov 92 23:35:06 GMT
Article-I.D.: drutx.22525
Distribution: usa
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories - Denver

In article <1992Nov18.210843.3481@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>, zephyr@cory.Berkeley.EDU (COIFMAN) writes:
> In article <1992Nov17.194002.17469@wubios.wustl.edu> derek@wubios.wustl.edu (Derek Morgan) writes:
> >
> >She has been unable to comment on her proud, defiant stand in the face of the
> >oncoming frieght. Her family is preparing to take legal action against the
> >engineer, saying that since he saw the car on the tracks, he was negligent in
> >not stopping the train.
> >
> >Geez.
> >
> >Derek Morgan
> 
>  If we lived in a world that worked the right way, the rail road would
> be preparing to take legal action against the driver for tresspassign,
> damage to their locomotive, loss of revinue do to having the main shut
> down, etc..
> 
> 
> 
>    _ -----------  -------------  ----------- _  -------------/^^^^^^^^\----
>   /^____________||_____________||____________^\|[] ==== ====  ___ ___   == |
>  'o-o ------ o-o  o-o ----- o-o  o-o ------ o-o o-o ------------------- o-o
> Way of the Zephyrs        zephyr@cory.berkeley.edu             Benn Coifman
>                            zephyr@robotics.berkeley.edu


Few years back I did some scuba diving off Cabo San Lucas. The
Colorado divemaster who put the trip together made it very clear
that US liability practices didn't hold in Cabo. Even though a
local dive shop provided the boats and guides, if there were any
accidents we could take no legal action against them. In fact,
we, the divers, could be sued by the locals for "misrepresenting
our skill level" and damaging the shop's reputation. This
concept of "personal responsibility in action" didn't sit too
well with some members of the group.

Small companies might be able to sue, even here, but large
companies that need to maintain a positive public image, like
Amtrak, almost never seek to recover damages from injured
parties - the P.R. costs are too high. The closest you'll get to
that would be the utilities that go after contractors who sever
buried cables or pipelines. In those cases there is (usually) a
service outage, so the utility gets to be a hero by restoring
service quickly. Hard to look like a hero, even when you're in
the right, if it's your 100-ton loco plowing into a 2-ton
idiot container.

Tom

____________________________________________________________________ 
Thomas C. Madden  tom@drutx.att.com  AT&T Bell Laboratories  Denver                                                  
These are my opinions only!!
From: ggg9y@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Garth G. Groff)
Subject: Re: U.S. railroad maps (topo maps)
Organization: University of Virginia
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 13:23:40 GMT

OLD TOPO MAPS

Our library is a U.S. Superintendent of Documents 
Depository.  The rules of the game say that outdated
USGS topos are supposed to be disposed of when a new
edition is issued.  So older topos are rare, at least
at depository libraries.  Of course, there is nothing 
I know of to prevent these older maps from being 
placed in a non-depository collection.  For example,
I found many old maps available at the California
room in the State Library in Sacramento last year.

I would be certain that the most topos ever issued are
in the Library of Congress or the National Archives, 
or both.  Of course, you have to go to Washington to 
use them....
~S
--
Garth (Haridas) Groff
"Not yet famous author"
ggg9y@poe.acc.virginia.EDU         Chant "Govinda Bohlo Hare"
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: roma@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Jon Roma)
Subject: Re: Why long end of engine forward?
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 21:27:31 GMT

ggg9y@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Garth G. Groff) writes:

>The reason N&W and Southern continuted buying high
>hoods and running them long end first for so long
>so simple to any Southerner: it's a tradition (this
>explains everything without answering anything).

>By the way, another tradition I'll miss is white
>flags on Southern extras.  This was railroad with
>class.

On parts of the Southern here in Illinois, train orders are still in use
although they are copied via radio instead of being handed up by an operator.
Thus, train order rules are still in effect, which includes the use of
white or green flags or lights.
-- 
Jon Roma
Computing and Communications Services Office,
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Internet:  roma@uiuc.edu      	UUCP:      uunet!uiucuxc!uiuc.edu!roma
Newsgroups: rec.railroad,rec.models.railroad
From: smb@ulysses.att.com (Steven Bellovin)
Subject: current details of NYS&W #120
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 17:18:40 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories

I'd like some information on exactly what NYS&W 120 (an SW9) looks
like right now.  I have some older pictures, from about 1986, and
some newer ones (including two of my own), and I know there have
been changes.  Unfortunately, it no longer operates near me, so I
can't go out to check the details...

First -- how many horns does it have?  The older pictures show a single
yellow horn.  Newer pictures have a silver horn.  I think, but I'm
not certain, that there are now three horns.  (Assuming that there
are three, does anyone of the modeling persuasion know of a detail
part that matches?)

Second, what color are the sideframes on the trucks?  Older pictures
showed silver sideframes; the newer ones indicate black sideframes,
but that area isn't shown very well on the pictures I have.

Third, is there a radio antenna on the cab roof?  I think I can make
out a horizontal one on the engineer's side, but I'm not sure.

Fourth, what color is the fuel filler painted?

I know about the round silver spark arrestors replacing the odd-shaped
black ones, and I think I've located suitable detail parts.

Does anyone know of any other changes since the publication of the
Railpace book on the Susquehanna?


		Thanks,


		--Steve Bellovin


Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: ehr@ecsvax.uncecs.edu (Ernest H. Robl)
Subject: Flags (Was Re: Why long end of engine forward?)
Summary: classification flags
Organization: UNC Educational Computing Service
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 22:24:23 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.172826.20701@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>, ggg9y@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Garth G. Groff) writes:

 .. [stuff deleted] ...
> 
> By the way, another tradition I'll miss is white
> flags on Southern extras.  This was railroad with
> class.


Reminds me of the fan trip I chased one time which had an advance
van that visited all of the passenger boarding sites about half an
hour ahead of the steam train.  The van was flying green flags --
indicating he had another section following.

-- Ernest
-- 
"My other computer is a Nikon N8008." -- Ernest H. Robl
Ernest H. Robl (ehr@ecsvax)  Durham, NC, USA   +1  919   286-3845
                                         FAX:  +1  919   286-1696
This .signature exceeds plate C specifications (for rec.railroad fans)
From: ehr@ecsvax.uncecs.edu (Ernest H. Robl)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Scanners
Summary: Bearcat BC70 price
Keywords: Scanners
Date: 15 Nov 92 22:35:44 GMT
Organization: UNC Educational Computing Service


By the way, forgot to include in my previous post that if I remember
correctly, Scanner World currently has the Bearcat BC70 for about
$125 -- so your local price is a bit high.  I don't have the most
recent Scanner World catalog -- I gave it away to someone else
interested in scanners -- but had noted that the price of the 70
had gone down from the $145 it was listed for previously.  

I've been looking at this small unit myself as a possibility for trips 
where size and weight are an important factor.

     Scanner World, USA
     10 New Scotland AVe.
     Albany, NY  12208         (518) 436-9606

(No connection with Scanner World other than having been a 
satisfied customer for a number of years.)

So, anyone out there been using one of these?

-- Ernest
-- 
"My other computer is a Nikon N8008." -- Ernest H. Robl
Ernest H. Robl (ehr@ecsvax)  Durham, NC, USA   +1  919   286-3845
                                         FAX:  +1  919   286-1696
This .signature exceeds plate C specifications (for rec.railroad fans)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: zephyr@cory.Berkeley.EDU (COIFMAN)
Subject: Re: Vandalism and stone throwing
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 22:56:35 GMT


 One day, I was listening to a tale from a Milwaukee (now Soo)
conductor. He had been working this run with the same crew for a couple
of years. It was about twenty mile out, switch and come back. Each time
they went on the run, no matter what time of day, when they passed a
particular stretch, there would be these two kids out there throwing
rocks at the train. 
 Well, one day, they were tooling along and as they aproched the area
with the kids, the engineer started to accelerate. But the kids were
nowhere to be found. So the conductor says, "Stop the train, stop the
train." The engineer thought he was crazy, but went along with it. They
grabbed every single last torpedo they could find in the engine and
caboose and laid them end to end on the track behind the train. Then,
they climbed back abord the train and continued on to do their
switching.
 On the return trip, they slowed down and laid on the horn, just to make
sure that the kids would be there. Now mind you, they were in an SW1200
or similar small switcher with no short hood and were running cab
forward. 
 They round a curve, and there on an over pass are the two kids. One of
them has a cinder block held high above his head just waiting for the
right moment. A moment that did not come. Right before the train hit the
row of torpedos laid out on the rail, the conductor grabbed his trusty
broom, threw open the cab door and made like he was holding a shotgun.
 The cinder block fell and hit a much better target than the train, but
needless to say, they never had any problems from those kids anymore.



    r++-----------,---,-------------.            Benn Coifman 
   /~____________/ ""||      @      |       zephyr@cory.berkeley.edu
  / o-o  (*) (*)  o :  o-o-o   o-o-o      zephyr@robotics.berkeley.edu

Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: pierson@gimp77.enet.dec.com (dave pierson)
Subject: Re: Scaring away meese
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Distribution: na
Date: 15 NOV 92 09:59:52    

In article <6km8TB2w165w@1776.COM>, bob@1776.COM (Robert Coe) writes...

>So did CN change the sound of their horns?  What is the physics of a steam
>whistle?  Would it sound about the same if run on compressed air?

	We REALLY need my friend the organ builder.  Their pipes cover all the
	variations.   8)>>

	The Whistle has a small aperture, to break up the air flow, with a
	resonator on it, typically closed at the top.  (Actually, multiple
	resonators, with multiple apertures.  hence the nomenclature "three
	chime", "four chime", etc.)  Length determines fumdamental pitch,
	length/dia detemines the overtone (hramonic) content, and, thus, the
	sound.  Some asset heatedly that one needs steam to make it sound
	"right", but i remain unconvinced.  If memory serves, this would be
	called a "flue" pipe in organ work.

	The Horn, has a small reed, or diaphragm, way in the back, activated by
	the compressed air (can also be activated by steam).  The tone is set
	by the interaction of the horn length and the dimensions of the reed.
	(Think of the organ builder: hundreds of pipes, each with a reed to
	tweak...)  The horn matches the acoustic impedance of the reed or
	diaphragm to the acoustic impedance of the free air.  Again, multi
	chime sets are common.  This would be called a "reed" pipe in organ
	work.

	I once noted that a particular lot of MBTA diesels had remarkably
	unmusical horns.  I was told (dunno if true) that the "noxious"
	horns were better at getting drivers attention at grade crossings.

	NJ Transit used to have a switcher at Hoboken with a particularly
	DEEEEeeeeeep  Horn.  I _think_ they hijacked the horn off one of the
	original ferry boats and bolted it to the switcher....

thanks
dave pierson			|the facts, as accurately as i can manage,
Digital Equipment Corporation	|the opinions, my own.
40 Old Bolton Road		|I am the NRA.
Stow, Mass	USA	
01775				pierson@msd27.enet.dec.com
"He has read everything, and, to his credit, written nothing."  A J Raffles
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: zephyr@cory.Berkeley.EDU (COIFMAN)
Subject: Re: Stupid People
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 21:08:43 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.194002.17469@wubios.wustl.edu> derek@wubios.wustl.edu (Derek Morgan) writes:
 .
 .
 .
>
>28-year pregnant mother drives around crossing gate to wait for train to pass
>on far track. In gaining these precious 10 yards, which will save her an
>enormous amount of time, she fails to realize that the gate now behind her
>has a purpose; an oncoming train hits her car. She is in critical condition;
>her three children in the car with her were also injured.
>
>She has been unable to comment on her proud, defiant stand in the face of the
>oncoming frieght. Her family is preparing to take legal action against the
>engineer, saying that since he saw the car on the tracks, he was negligent in
>not stopping the train.
>
>Geez.
>
>Derek Morgan

 If we lived in a world that worked the right way, the rail road would
be preparing to take legal action against the driver for tresspassign,
damage to their locomotive, loss of revinue do to having the main shut
down, etc..



   _ -----------  -------------  ----------- _  -------------/^^^^^^^^\----
  /^____________||_____________||____________^\|[] ==== ====  ___ ___   == |
 'o-o ------ o-o  o-o ----- o-o  o-o ------ o-o o-o ------------------- o-o
Way of the Zephyrs        zephyr@cory.berkeley.edu             Benn Coifman
                           zephyr@robotics.berkeley.edu
From: romeo@niagara.Tymnet.COM (Michael Stimac)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Hopping trains for a ride
Date: 17 Nov 92 19:14:58 GMT
Organization: BT North America (Tymnet)

In article <55121@donald.WichitaKS.NCR.COM> msjohnso@donald.WichitaKS.NCR.COM (Mark Johnson) writes:
>hleaves@gems.vcu.edu writes:
>
>>I used to know a group of people who hopped freight trains for free rides and a
>>thrill. I presume that this is very illegal. What are the laws regarding doing
>>this? I've heard that the caboose crew is allowed to shoot people trying to
>>jump their trains. Is this true? It seems like rather a severe measure to
>
>The railroads generally prosecute freight hoppers as some variation of
>simple trespassing; shoot-on-sight has never been allowed, to my knowledge.
>I've heard stories of folks being thrown off moving trains, back in the
>bad old days (1930's or so). Today, I think they usually hold them for some
>local law enforcement agency.

Persons interested in this topic might enjoy the movie _Emporer of
the North Pole_ (US, 1973). It depicts a dramtic story of hoboes
during 1933, and the ongoing battle between the 'boes and an over-
zealous railroad conductor. In keeping with the 'hard times' the
battle gets pretty brutal.

(the movie is also known as _Emporer of the North_ and
_Emporer of the Northwest_)

Michael Stimac
-- 
Michael Stimac
(415) 355-8889
romeo@tymnet.com
These opinions are not necessarily anyone's but my own.
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: billg@bony1.bony.com (Bill Gripp)
Subject: Re: Locomotive pilots
Organization: LA&W RR
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 06:23:22 GMT

>> William Adams writes:
>>
>> Also: I have seen one particular pilot on a Conrail engine in Pittsburgh,
>> PA
>> with the lower outside corners cut off and the markings "3rd rail cutout"
>> chalked on.  Is there 3rd rail track on freight-shared tracks around here?

No doubt this is for the Hudson line from Croton North south.

Newsgroups: rec.railroad