HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.stat-l
Date:         Wed, 16 Dec 1992 12:59:10 -0500
Reply-To:     "Paul A. Thompson" <pat@po.CWRU.Edu>
From:         "Paul A. Thompson" <pat@PO.CWRU.EDU>
Subject: Re: uses of factor analysis (fwd)

>
>Byron Davis <byron@EDU.UTAH.USI.OSIRIS> writes:
>>
>> However, I must emphasize again that these failings are not the failings of
>> statistical packages or statistical techniques. They are the failings of
>> particular individuals (e.g., students, professors, authors, reviewers and
>> editors). No tool once made, is safe from misuse but the answer to this
>> problem is not to destroy all tools, it is to better educate the users.
>>
>    True, very true.  A damning illustration of just how true this can be has
>been shown to me by a colleague in the form of a rejection letter he received
>froma journal.  He had written a letter pointing out that a paper just
>published in this particular psychological journal was more than somewhat
>flawed, in fact, the analysis performed was so wrong that the conclusions
>reached by the paper (which managed to coincide with the author's know 'biases'
>about the subject matter) were in fact the opposite of what was really going
>on.  My colleague, who wished to remain nameless but is known to a few on
>this list, actually showed, in his letter, how the analysis *should* have been
>performed, and what the conclusions *should* have been.  I can't remember the
>exact words, but the editor more or less said that it would be embarrassing to
>publish the letter, seeing as it exposed some rather large holes in their
>reviewing process.  (I suppose that since the objections were mathematical
>in nature, most psychologists would have ignored them anyway...)
>
Very true.  Another example in psychiatry is a famous paper published in
1982, with author initials A and O, involving factor analysis of
SANS and SAPS data.  They did not rotate their initial extraction, and
interpreted the unrotated loadings, which is deranged.  This paper is
almost a citation classic, and has spawned numerous sentences of the following
sort "A and O (1982)showed that pos and neg symptoms are bipolar, but
this was not supported by the analysis reported here".  Finally,
in 1990, A published an article (A, A, and A, 1990), in which they admit
that the original paper was nuts.  Incidentally, A is an editor of a
MAJOR journal, and known to be vindictive.  So nobody had the guts to
publish the fact that the original was incorrectly performed.

After the topic of factor analysis is finished, can we talk about
deranged uses of SEMs (structural equation models)?  Boy, talk about
some bad stuff...

--
Paul Thompson, Ph.D.  |  Department of Psychiatry  |  (216) 844-7463
Case Western Reserve University  | Cleveland, OH  44106
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When I hear "family values," I reach for my revolver. - para. Hans Jonst
From: HARTWD@SLUVCA.SLU.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.stat-l
Subject: Re: Spreadsheets and graphics
Date: 15 Dec 92 14:21:00 GMT
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Allen Reese writes:


>Graphics are too serious to be treated as trivia or graffitti.  Too many lies
> are told every
>day using data and graphics.  Shame is, many of the people telling them don't
> know they're
>lies.

Which is why I require all of my students to read:

"How to Lie with Statistics", by Darrell Huff, 1954, now in its 39th
printing from W. W. Norton & Co.  I get my copies from a national
chain for $3.95.  If they are the persistant type, I let them
read my copy of "The Visual Display of Quantitative Information"
but only under armed guard.  :-)


William D. Hart,  Saint Louis University
(Which is not responsible for my opinions or spelling)
bitnet:    hartwd@sluvca
internet   hartwd@sluvca.slu.edu
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.stat-l
Date:         Fri, 11 Dec 1992 15:41:28 EST
From:         DWINSLOW@UCS.INDIANA.EDU
Subject:      CI of binomial to the nth

While we're on the subject of confidence intervals for proportional data,  What
 is the SE for a proportion raised to a certain (constant) power?
        Thanks-Donald DWINSLOW@UCS.INDIANA.EDU
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.stat-l
Date:         Thu, 17 Dec 1992 10:58:39 CET
From:         Joop Hox <A716HOX@HASARA11.BITNET>
Subject:      IOT

I have always heard the IOT refered to as the 'Inter Ocular Traumatic test',
which I like more because it rhymes with 'dramatic'.

(I recently went to a New York travesty opera company which featured a
'traumatic soprano' too...)

Joop Hox
University of Amsterdam
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.stat-l
From: dmurdoch@mast.queensu.ca (Duncan Murdoch)
Subject: Re: Populist vs. Puritan Statistics
Organization: Queen's University
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 14:37:08 GMT

In article <9212121439.AA07054@halmos.math.UNB.CA> Rolf Turner <rolf@MATH.UNB.CA> writes:
>If students are not statistically inclined, mightn't they be more put
>off by having to write a program in a spreadsheet language than by
>typing ``twosample c1 c2'' in Minitab (and then discussing the meaning
>and implications of the results that this gives)?

But you don't have to write a program in a spreadsheet language:  you just 
point at the data and ask for a graph, or point at the data and ask for a 
linear regression.  It's a *far* more natural way to do statistics than 
Minitab or SAS or S supports.  

On the negative side, the spreadsheets are generally not easily extensible; 
if the author didn't think of what you want to do, it's generally a 
big job to put it in.  As well, they're often not very well done in terms of 
using stable numerical methods, and on difficult data sets may well give 
wrong answers.  

I think there's plenty of room for serious statistical work to be done in 
spreadsheets.  Now that most spreadsheets allow external code to be linked 
in to provide new functions, there's no reason someone couldn't put together 
a package that could do everything Minitab can do, but in a spreadsheet.
That would, in my opinion, be a far better setting for teaching statistics.

Duncan Murdoch
dmurdoch@mast.queensu.ca
From: AHKARP1@UCBCMSA.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.stat-l
Subject: visual analog scales
Date: 16 Dec 92 07:56:00 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

Hello...I am looking for sources of information about visual analog scales.
My particular interest is in identifying journal articles and/or text book
discussions about their theoretical derivation, and how the results are
collected/used.

Thanks...any insights greatly appreciated.

Andrew Karp
UC Berkeley
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.stat-l
Date:         Thu, 17 Dec 1992 10:12:16 EST
From:         Tim Dorcey <TCD@CORNELLC.BITNET>
Subject:      data manipulation in Minitab

     From the mention of Minitab that I saw in the recent discussion of
stat packages, I'm led to believe that someone out there can help me with
what seems like a routine data manipulation problem.  Given a column of
data, how would one create a new column where the first element is the
average of row1-row3, the second element is the average of row4-row6,
etc.  The only thing I could think of would be to create a column of
indices 1 1 1 2 2 2 3 3 3 .... , and then use ANOVA to get predicted
values.  This seems pretty round about and I don't even know how I
would generate the indices in the first place.  Anybody know the
simple answer to this problem?  Thanks in advance.

Tim Dorcey                        BITNET:   TCD@CORNELLC
Statistical Software Consultant   Internet: TCD@CORNELLC.CIT.CORNELL.EDU
Cornell Information Technologies  Phone:    (607) 255-5715
Cornell University
Ithaca, NY  14853
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.stat-l
Date:         Fri, 11 Dec 1992 13:12:38 CST
From:         Ed Johnson <EJOHNSO3@UA1VM.BITNET>
Subject:      Populist vs. Puritan Statistics

The discussion of spreadsheets for statistics reminds me of my undergraduate
days at Brooks Institute of Photography when we regularly berated the then new
instamatic cameras that were incapable of producing a professional-quality im-
age--yet millions of Americans bought the little things. And today there are
in millions of scrapbooks images--albeit fuzzy--of friends and family, who
have since passed away. And we have those memories only because of the unpro-
fessional instamatic camera.

I often wonder whether we are scaring away students from statistics by our de-
sire to teach them how to produce professional-quality statistics, whereas
very few of them will ever be statisticians and would gain far more from learn-
ing how to take statistical snapshots--albeit fuzzy.


 ___________________________________________________________________
 |                         |                                        |
 |  Ed Johnson             |   "...of making many books there is    |
 |  Dept. of Mass Comm.    |   no end; and much study is a weari-   |
 |  University of Alabama  |   ness of the flesh."                  |
 |  Tuscaloosa, AL 35487   |            --Ecclesiastes 12:12        |
 |                         |                                        |
 |_________________________|________________________________________|
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.cdromlan
Date:         Fri, 18 Dec 1992 16:54:59 CST
              <CDROMLAN@IDBSU.BITNET>
From:         "Ed Perry, Regina, Canada" <PERRYEDW@MAX.CC.UREGINA.CA>
Subject:      OED

I've been following this " networking of the OED " question with interest since
 the first time it popped up on CDROMLAN. The relationship between a company
 and its customers ( or potential customers ) can be a pretty fragile and
 easily ruined thing. I think Scott Barker's last three sentences made that
 point very well.

 This business of site licencing is a real can of worms. Some companies like
 Wilson have their act together quite well. Others don't. Take a look at the
 site licence for the Chapman and Hall  CHCD Dictionary  of Natural Products.
 That one would be a natural to network for access from student labs and
 faculty offices. But the licence says you may not use it on any multi-user
 network .  Period.  In fact, if the licence is strictly interpreted, you
 might be in violation if you took the product and software out of the library
 and  across to demo it for a Chem Dept faculty meeting without prior written
 permission from the publisher. I thinkpart of the problem is that some
 producers of electronic products haven't come to grips with the potential
 uses for their goodies, and are still viewing them with a " book " mind set.
 Guess maybe we buyers have some " producer education " cut out for us. Ed.
From: WERTHMULLER@SIENA.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.cdromlan
Subject: Re: Macs vs IBM
Date: 16 Dec 92 13:23:19 GMT
              <CDROMLAN@IDBSU.BITNET>
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In responce to Mac platform restricting access.
Yes. It does restrict your access NOW. But how long will this go on ?
Remember the words open systems ? The question is how long will this take?
SilverPlater seems to be going in that direction providing Dual access
(Mac & PC ) by 1994.
Another question is how much restriction can you work with and for how long ?

Has anyone used the Apple CDROM products ? I bet it was nice and easy to
install.(no messing with config.sys, interface cards, address conflicts,Irq
conflicts )

Derek Werthmuller
Werthmuller@Siena.Bitnet
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.cdromlan
Date:         Mon, 14 Dec 1992 09:58:36 -0700
              <CDROMLAN@IDBSU.BITNET>
From:         LSMITH@CCNODE.COLORADO.EDU
Subject:      Re: CDROM networking

Re: CD-ROM databases appropriate for K-12 libraries without extra license
fees.

As a former high school media specialist, I can think of three that we used
successfully (and productively):  SIRS (full-text newspaper and magazine
articles--rather expensive, but easy to use and liked by students--good
for junior high as well); Wilson's Readers' Guide (includes abstracts; the
public and school library edition is under $400 if taken quarterly); Front
Page News (thousands of fulltext articles from wire services--very inexpen-
sive and fairly easy to search).  We also used McGraw-Hill Science and
Technical Reference Set (no extra license fees), but not as successfully--
the search engine isn't quite so user friendly.

Good luck.

Leroy Smith, The Colorado College   (lsmith@cc.colorado.edu)
From: holbor@ccmail.orst.edu (Richard Holbo)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.cdromlan
Subject: Re: TCP/IP access to Novell/Multiplatter network
Date: 13 Dec 92 02:16:23 GMT
Organization: Oregon State University Libraries
NNTP-Posting-Host: standdx05.kerr.orst.edu


	Should've included this in previous message, but if you would like 
to give my system a try, it is at osulib.kerr.orst.edu (128.193.202.19).  It 
will not actually let you use the CD's without a password, but you can get 
the Menu, and see how the thing works etc.

                 =========================================
                 Richard Holbo              (503) 737-0952
                 Systems Analyst
                 Oregon State University Libraries
                          holbor@ccmail.orst.edu
                 =========================================
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Date:         Mon, 14 Dec 1992 08:35:17 -0600
Reply-To:     "Harriet A. Rood" <hrood@tenet.edu>
              <CDROMLAN@IDBSU.BITNET>
From:         "Harriet A. Rood" <hrood@TENET.EDU>
Subject:      CD/Rom stacks

Here is my second question for the day.  (I have split these up so that
you can answer one or all)  At present we have a stand alone Hitachi with
MAS.  When we go on a network I want to start adding resources.  I would
like to purchase several players either to string or as a tower.  The old
Hitachi will not do as it is a 1500 and is pretty slow.  I have been
watching the comments on this network and am more confused than ever.
What do you all out there recommend to start with.  I would like 6 or 7
really dependable machines that can easily be added to the network.
             *******************************************************
             * Harriet Rood                                        *
             * Head Librarian              (210)  423-6006 ext 530 *
             * Marine Military Academy      FAX   (210) 423-7716   *
             * 320 Iwo Jima Blvd.           hrood@tenet.edu        *
             * Harlingen, TX 78550                                 *
             *******************************************************
                                " Semper Fi"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.cdromlan
From: Ashley@chaz.demon.co.uk (Charles Ashley)
Subject: re: satellites & internet
Distribution: world
Organization: Learned Information (Europe) Ltd.
Reply-To: ashley@chaz.demon.co.uk
X-Mailer: Simple NEWS 1.90 (ka9q DIS 1.19)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 10:48:06 +0000


-- 
*****************************************************************************
*                          - Charles Ashley -                               *
*    Internet:   ashley@chaz.demon.co.uk        Learned Information Ltd.    *
*    CompuServe: 71333,624                      tel: +44 (0)71-278-3414     *
*****************************************************************************


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Organization: Missouri Library Network Corp.
Priority:     normal
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Date:         Fri, 11 Dec 1992 13:01:54 CDT
Reply-To:     doug@mlnc486.mlnc.com
              <CDROMLAN@IDBSU.BITNET>
From:         Doug Tremere <DOUG@MLNC486.MLNC.COM>
Subject:      Re: texel drives

If I may make one correction here.  The Hitachi 1503S drive has been
discontinued for a few years now.  It is NOT known as the "WORKHORSE"
(although they are extremely rugged).  There is a drive actually called
the "WORKHORSE" from TODD Enterprises, which is a Hitachi CDR-3700 drive
in an external case.

As far as comparisons go, the 1503S had a average access speed of 800
milliseconds with an 8K buffer.  The CDR-3700 has an average access speed
of 274 milliseconds with a 64K buffer.  I think that shows that there is
no comparison between the 2 in performance.

Hope I didn't offend anyone, just wanted to make sure the facts were clear.




Doug Tremere                      Missouri Library Network Corporation
equipment@mlnc486.mlnc.com        St. Louis, MO         1-800-264-3799


> From:          "D.E. 'Dave' Bloomberg" <BLOOMBER%FAUVAX.BITNET@pucc.Princeton.
 EDU>
> Subject:       Re: texel drives

>     Hi,
>
>     We are using a mix of Hitachi 1503S' and Texel drives.  The Texel
>     players are roughly 100% faster than the WORKHORSE Hitachi's.
>     When entering a search term with ERIC, It will keep up as fast as
>     I can type VS having to wait several seconds for the system to
>     catch up with my typing.
>
>     As to durability, I can't render a long-term position since we've
>     only had them since the end of August.  I can tell you that we
>     just ordered 21 more (that will give us a total of 42 Texel's) for our
>     third CD server.  For the short term they have behaved very well.
>
>      We did have a gremlin for a couple weeks, but our Vendor just
>      came in and gave us 5 new players since we didn't have the time
>      to pin-point the EXACT problem (apparently one of the players
>      was just a little out of spec; so we replaced the whole stack).
>
>      The external Texel players we use do tend to run a little hot.  Our
>      vendor just recently gave us some oversized rubber feet, and
>      that little bit larger air-gap (1/2in vs 1/4in) seems to help ALOT!!
>
>
>      Dave Bloomberg
>      BLOOMBER@FAUVAX
>Doug Tremere                           Missouri Library Network Corporation
Computer Services Manager              St. Louis, MO         1-800-264-3799
equipment@mlnc486.mlnc.com
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Subject: (no subject given)
Via:      UK.AC.OX.VAX; 14 DEC 92 15:30:22 GMT
Subj:     Apple client software for ISO9660 CDs
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.cdromlan
Date:         Mon, 14 Dec 1992 15:30:55 GMT
              <CDROMLAN@IDBSU.BITNET>
From:         RGLYNN@VAX.OXFORD.AC.UK

The OED2 ISO9660 compact disc can be read from both PC cd drives
and Apple Mac cd drives.  We didn't buy anything special to enable
us to read the ISO9660 disc on the Mac -- this facility is built
into the driver software that comes with the Apple cd drive (System
7 at least, and I guess that a similar system extension is available
for System 6 Macs).

(By the way, the Mac version of OED2 won't be available until June
1993 -- just in case any of you tries to order it!)

Ruth Glynn
CD-ROM Project Manager
Oxford University Press
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Date:         Fri, 11 Dec 1992 12:34:00 -0700
Reply-To:     rbessin@ca.uky.edu
              <CDROMLAN@IDBSU.BITNET>
From:         Ricardo Bessin <rbessin@CA.UKY.EDU>
Subject:      CDROM for LAN

Hello:

  Could you please include me on your mailing list for "Use of CDROM
  in LAN environments"

Thanks, Ric Bessin

rbessin@ca.uky.edu

---
Ricardo Bessin
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.cdromlan
Date:         Wed, 16 Dec 1992 16:49:13 GMT
              <CDROMLAN@IDBSU.BITNET>
From:         RGLYNN@VAX.OXFORD.AC.UK
Subject:      OED2 for Mac and IBM

Of course OUP has an enlightened sales policy!  In the case of
the OED2 CD-ROM the cost of the package for a site is dictated
by the numbers of users and it will be accommodated by the
licence issued to that site.  We are not often asked to
supply both versions of a package but when we are we tend to discount
the second version purchased.  We don't have a hard-and-fast
rule for this and usually consider each case individually since,
typically, sites ask for funny numbers of things which can't
be easily accommodated within the standard distribution system.

Ruth

Ruth Glynn
CD-ROM Project Manager, OUP
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Date:         Mon, 14 Dec 1992 12:04:18 FULL
              <CDROMLAN@IDBSU.BITNET>
From:         NATHH@CITADEL.BITNET
Subject:      Re: TCP/IP access to Novell/Multiplatter network

Richard,

I tried your system through the Internet and it looks very good.  I was itching
   to get into it.

Herb Nath
The Citadel