HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: fountain@bach.udel.edu (Eric Randolp Benson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Full auto rate of fire
Date: 5 Jan 93 23:14:44 GMT
Organization: University of Delaware

In article <9301050847.aa13157@claudius.pica.army.mil> erudnick@pica.army.mil (FSAC-SID) writes:
#
#Jim Del Vecchio writes:
##        A reliable, high mag capacity, .22 LR submachine gun would
##be quite a neat item, imo.   I wonder if there will ever be such a
##thing developed.
#
#
#Where ya been, Jim? :)
#
#There are at least 3 such weapons. Two efforts were made in the US, one
#I think by American Arms, the other by Ilarco. Currently such a weapon
#is made somewhere in what's left of Yugoslavia, and has been used in
#combat there.
#
#All the concepts look similar, a bit like a small Thompson SMG, with the
#big difference being the use of a top mounted horizontal pan, or drum,
#magazine, like the Lewis gun or the Degtyarev DP. Mag capacity is 177-180
#rds, and firing rate well over 1000 rds/min.
#
#Apparently very effective at close range.
In Shotgun News,Birmingham Pistol Wholesale advertises a sound supressed
AMT Lightning, full auto and a Ruger (gak) 10-22 full auto, sound
supressed rifle.  
	More expensive than I can afford...

	Someone else was telling me (not sure how much truth there is to it)
tht you could either purchase or convert Calico .22's to full auto. It
would give you a 100 round helical clip and low recoil, concealable
package.  Don't know how true it is...
Eric Benson
From: amirza@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Anmar Caves)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: guns vs. K9s
Date: 5 Jan 93 03:28:44 GMT
Organization: Indiana University

In article <1993Jan4.130458.7348@email.tuwien.ac.at> holger@vmars.tuwien.ac.at (Holger Reusch (Dipl. Gerhard + Joe)) writes:
#A past experience of a relative of mine prompts me to ask for in-
#sights.
#
#Consider the following scenario:
#
#You are confronted with a very  unfriendly  and  rather  big  dog
#(growling,  foam  at  the mouth, suspected rabies) in your garden
#(so carry laws are not an issue).  What gun/ammo would  you  like
#to have with you?

Since I like to follow the first rule of gunfighting (bring a gun),
I'd have to say that the gun of choice for me is whatever one happens
to be readily available at the time.  I would certainly hope that
several rounds from my carry weapon should suffice, and if they didn't,
and I survived, I'd give serious thought to going with something more
powerful.  Spending time out at the ranch, I, on occasion, have to deal
with dog packs, and while I haven't killed one yet, it's always a
thought.  

An aside, I had my first real dog scare out there a few weeks ago.  A
medium sized dog startled me while I was cutting firewood, and damn
near got cut in half when I jumped up with a fully running chainsaw.
He then ran away and came back later that night and scared the
bejeezus out of me when he jumped me in the dark while I was getting
firewood.  I clubbed him with the piece I was carrying, then fired a
few shots in his general direction as he retreated.  The next morning
he showed up again, tail wagging.  Real friendly dog, but when it
comes to rabies I take no chances.  I was away last weekend, so I
don't know if he's still hanging around.


-- 
Anmar Mirza   # Chief of Tranquility  #My Opinions! NotIU's!#Purveyor of
EMT-D         # Base, Lawrence Co. IN # Legalize Explosives!#nontraditional
N9ISY (tech)  # Somewhere out on the  # Politicians prefer  #family values
Networks Tech.# Mirza Ranch.C'mon over# unarmed peasants.   #Space For Rent
From: archer@utkvm1.utk.edu (T. Archer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Home Invasion Prevention Tactics Wanted
Date: 12 Jan 93 22:17:54 GMT
Organization: University of Tennessee

In article <9301121516.AA10441@slopoke.mlb.semi.harris.com> rliles@spuds.mlb.semi.harris.com (Ray Liles) writes:

#Within the past week, there have been 5 cases of home invasion in the Orlando,
#Florida area.  The incidents occur in the early evening, when everyone is awake
#and typically watching television.  The *invaders* violently crash or break in,
#using the element of surprise.  All have been armed and there are generally 3
#or more.

#In all 5 cases, the invaders were after money and jewelry.  I think there was
#only one case in which they took an electronic item.  By the way, this is not a
#gang that has hit 5 times -- there are different groups.  I can not remember all
#the stats, but in at least 2 incidents gun fire was used by the invaders, even
#when the victims were not armed.

#Yes, I have protection and security devices, but I don't profess to be RAMBO.
#I would appreciate *practical* solutions and tactical recommendations for 
#handling the situation.  This is obviously beyond the typical, single intruder,
#sneaking into your house.

For standard front doors, I would suggest a classic bar, similar to the ones 
in the middle ages.  A simple one involves a wood block nailed to the center 
of the door, another one on the floor, and a steel pipe wedged between 
them.  Two men with a battering ram will hurt themselved trying to open 
this. 

Caution: it is only as strong as the door, which is only as strong as the 
frame.
From: GWH@UH.EDU (Gregory W Hayes)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Full auto rate of fire
Date: 10 Jan 93 04:34:58 GMT
Organization: University of Houston

In article <1993Jan7.190853.4671@CERIS.Purdue.EDU> jheath@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Jim Heath) writes:
##From article <1ib3u0INN7j0@menudo.uh.edu>, by GWH@UH.EDU (Gregory W Hayes):
## #	A reliable, high mag capacity, .22 LR submachine gun would 
## #be quite a neat item, imo.   I wonder if there will ever be such a
## #thing developed.
## 
## A friend and I were thinking about building a .22LR gatling gun...  Just
## got to get the TMs for the feed mechanism for a chain gun, dump alot of 
## .22LR into the hopper and power up the electric drill... :-)
## 
#
#I realize you're joking ;-{), but wouldn't this be illegal?  I understand
#the hand-cranked gatling (original) is legal and some company was making
#and selling them, but I don't remember seeing a price.

Yep, unfortunately, having it powered by a motor makes it illegal.

I too would like to know how the "new" gatling is not illegal.  The gist
of the idea, from what I understand, is that each barrel is only fired
once, but how did they come up with that since its operated by a crank?
(One rev of crank == one trigger pull?)

#Just for curiousity, is there a difference between the late 1800s Gatling
#and the "chain" gun that is now called a "Gatling" (other than the
#electric motor).

This now has really piqued my interest.  I think I'm going to have to
order the plans for a gatling and get the appropriate TM/FMFMs and find
out what the difference is.

Anybody who can get me the address for the plans from SGN, I'd
appreciate it... (I don't have a subscription and the bookstores nearby
don't carry it...)

Greg Hayes
From: scott@pcc9.spacelabs.com (Scott West)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: No Dillon Press Now
Date: 6 Jan 93 22:26:22 GMT

After waiting for the Christmas rush to subside I called DILLON today to place and
order for the new XL 650.  I have been thinking about getting a DILLON as a addition 
to my RCBS progressive, just so I wouldn't have to go through the pain of setting up 
the different calibers.

Well, DILLON is no longer in the business of the no interest payment program.  Thats the program
where they would charge your VISA account over 5 months, it was history as of the 1st of the year. 
A fellow shooter here a work used the program and it worked great,  wonder what happened?




=============================================
Scott West			'God created Washington
SpaceLabs Medical 		 for those born here'
Redmond, Washington
From: ole@delab.sintef.no (Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Case Trimming
Date: 8 Jan 93 14:07:08 GMT
Organization: SINTEF DELAB, Trondheim, Norway.

Well, dillon makes a case trimmer which consists of a trimming die
which you mount in the press and a motor driven trimmer head. Fast,
easy and accurate. Of course, you have to deburr the case afterwards,
although it makes a very clean cut. I have shot cartridges trimmed
with this trimmer without deburring, and it didn't seen to affect
accuracy much. (This is NOT a BR rifle)
My only complaint is that they make it only in .223, .308 and 30-06.
However, a trimming die could be made fairly easily from a standard
sizing die, it should only be a matter of some drilling, turning and
threading.
From: wmartin@STL-06SIMA.ARMY.MIL (Will Martin)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re:  Sale on Jane's books (sub. rec.guns)
Date: 6 Jan 93 18:22:34 GMT

Just to add to Henry's note: Barnes & Noble also has an 800 number that
they don't show on their catalog order forms but which does appear in
certain of their ads.  We use it when we order (I have already ordered the
Jane's books he listed): 800-242-6657

By the way, note that the "Security and Co-In" book is a paperback -- the
same large size as the other Jane's books, but not hardcover like the
Infantry Weapons and other more-"traditional" volumes.  I did order this one
from B&N, even though I do have an older edition already.  The emphasis in
this book is on civilian-type gear as opposed to strictly military
equipment. 

These Barnes & Noble prices are somewhat less than the prices being charged
by Global Sales in Nevada for the Jane's remaindered books they've been
advertising in Shotgun News for a while now... 

Those who are interested in military-surplus electonics should note that
this B&N catalog also lists a recent volume of "Jane's Military
Communications". However, the price is pretty steep -- $45 is I recall.
I'll pay that level for Infantry Weapons, but I recall that "Military
Communications" used to go for much less - I bought a couple volumes in
the past at the $15 or so level. Also, the most recent military
electronics isn't going to be showing up on the surplus market anyway,
so older volumes of this can be more useful than later ones... :-)

Regards, Will
wmartin@st-louis-emh2.army.mil OR wmartin@stl-06sima.army.mil
From: fist@iscp.bellcore.com (Richard Pierson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Reloading Info for .44 Automag
Date: 7 Jan 93 23:59:32 GMT
Organization: Bellcore

Back in 71 Remington ran a limited production run of
.44 automag brass out of one of their mexican plants.
Prior to that it was carried in the stores that sold
them (automags) new. Might want to try remington and
see if they plan on ever having another "run" of brass.
I have a set of RCBS dies for making up the rounds using
.308 brass, when I was shooting it regularly I used to get
about 4 reloads out of them vs +10 out of the factory brass.
Now I did use "once fired" 7.62 out of various M-60's and 
M-14's so that may have had something to do with it. I don't
know whether the current manuals have any loadings on it,
I haven't fired mine in almost 10 years. I'm leary of breaking
parts and only being able to get replacements from High Standard
automags (no where near the quality of the originals) if they
are even available, mag-na-porting helped it ALOT to where
it is much more comfortable to shoot than any of my other
.44 mags (don't have a DE and haven't fired one yet).
Saw an original AMC for sale down here in NJ at a dealer
going for $1100.00 on consignment but as money is somewhat
tight (need new truck) I had to pass on it, I'll end up 
regretting it later I guess (I kinda do now). It was in
good shape with no ported barrel so I guess it wasn't fired
much :-) and it had 4 mags, now those I would like to have
a few extra of. Now you have me thinking, going to have to
look at my notes it's been so long since I even thought 
about it. There was somethin about forming the brass that
I remember was a PIA (besides the military crimped primer).
When you fire it watch where you put your fingers or you
will rip off a thumb nail (as for all those snickers I'm hearing
out there, when was the last time you did something dumb
or had a finger where it didn't belong at the wrong time).
If that happens it's always good for grossing out people
by pretending you "Just pulled it off for cleaning" :-)

-- 
##########################################################
There are only two types of ships in the NAVY; SUBMARINES 
                 and TARGETS !!!
#1/XS1100LH	#2/10/10/92
Richard Pierson E06584 vnet: [908] 699-6063
Internet: fist@iscp.bellcore.com,|| UUNET:uunet!bcr!fist  
#include <std.disclaimer> My opinions are my own!!!
I Don't shop in malls, I BUY my jeans, jackets and ammo
in the same store.
From: cower@SSD.intel.com (Rich Cower)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: pet loads for 223 (AR type rifles)
Date: 4 Jan 93 18:35:14 GMT
Organization: Supercomputer Systems Division (SSD), Intel


My favorite load for my Colt H-BAR is 25 Gr. of WIN 748, CCI small
rifle primer (400) and the Win. 55 grain FMJ bullet. I use recycled
military brass from Midway and River City (very nice, already trimmed).
I purchase the bullets from Black Hills, $218 per case. (if anyone
knows where to get them for less, please let me know).

When dialing in a load for these rifles, try loading 5 or so in
.5 grain increments or smaller, start lower than your manual suggests
if using surplus brass. The results are intersting. My gun
shot groups that touch at both 25 and 26 grains of 748, it really
spread out at other loadings. Being cheap, I settled on 25 grains
vs. the more expensive 26 grain load.

I'm not responsilbe if you blow yourself up doing these things.

...rich
From:  (MJ)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Pyrodex Is Corrosive
Date: 6 Jan 93 22:26:07 GMT


I don't know why so many people have the impression that Pyrodex is not
corrosive.  It is.  Hogdon says so and the dozen or so articles I've read
on it have stated the same.

My personal experience is that it doesn't burn noticably cleaner that Black
Powder and the standard grade stuff isn't as accurate.

Oh yeah, why would anyone buy a cap and ball revolver and screw around with
smokeless powders or want to convert it to a cartridge gun?  Obviously the
fun of shooting a cap and ball black powder sixgun is lost on you people. 
Stick to cartridge guns.  (Flame away)

MJ

[As if you didn't already know, my opinions are my own and not my
company's.]
From: rdh@sli.com (Robert D. Houk)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Long recoil guide rod for TZ75/Klones
Date: 4 Jan 93 13:32:07 GMT
Organization: Software Leverage, Inc. Arlington, Ma

I'm looking for a recoil spring guide rod for a "long slide" TZ75/klone
pistol. It needs to be at least 4.3 inches long. Anyone out there in
net-land know of such a beastie?

					-RDH
From: se08+@andrew.cmu.edu (Seth Adam Eliot)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Penetrating Brick wall (was: Self Protect Handgun vs. Shotgun.)
Date: 7 Jan 93 23:59:41 GMT

Excerpts from netnews.rec.guns: 6-Jan-93 Re: Self Protect Handgun vs..
by Dan Sorenson@iastate.edu 
# #Question to the net: does anyone know how well brick stops things? I.e.
# #is a brick house "bulletproof" to any appreciable degree?  
#  
#         I have a chunk of red brick on my desk right now.  It weighs
# only a few ounces, and is roughly triangular with dimensions of
# 1"x1"x0.5".  It was the largest fragment found after shooting a red
# brick with a .30-30 Winchester at 25 feet.  The .222 Remington
# produces fragments that more closely resemble talcum powder.  The
# .45ACP breaks the brick but doesn't disintegrate it as much,
# and the .22 merely takes a small chip out of it.  Your milage 
# may vary depending upon bullet construction and gun.

Shooting a single brick, while somewhat informative, is not a good
indication of penetration capacity through a brick WALL.

When a single brick is struck by the projectile, much of the destructive
energy transfered will be used to form and propagate cracks through the
body.  The stress state required for this involves appreciable tension,
shear, and torsion.  That's everything EXCEPT compression, which is
where brick excels.  In a brick wall, all the bricks (except edges) are
in compression, and are resistant to tension, shear and torsion.

-Seth

__________________________________________________________________________
"Why am I dangerous?...
                    ...because I'm right!"     -Rush Limbaugh

Seth Eliot                    Dept of Material Science and Engineering
                              Carnegie Mellon Univerity,   Pittsburgh, PA
ARPA    :eliot+@cmu.edu       |------------------------------------------
   or    se08+@andrew.cmu.edu |
Bitnet:  se08%andrew@cmccvb   |      
------------------------------|
From: ems@michael.apple.com (E. Michael Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Blackpowder and smokeless loads.
Date: 5 Jan 93 14:55:29 GMT
Organization: Circle 'C' Shellfish Ranch, Shores of the Pacific, California


Be aware that the data from 'Cartridges of the World' is for,
obviously, *cartridges*.

Since the pressure goes up as the space gets smaller, loading
a 'cartridge' load into a muzzle loading gun is looking for a
big pressure jump(!) that could break the gun and shooter...

(The ball is rammed down on top of the powder.  Smokeless is much
more compact than black powder, so the space is much smaller.
To adapt a cartridge load to a muzzle loading gun would take
a bit of work/talent and a lot of caution due to this variance
in the space occupied between cap and ball ...)

Some more data points:

Pg. 229:  7.5 mm Swedish Nagant Revolver
	Bullet  Powder/grains   MV      ME      Comments
	93      Unique  4       960     196
	93      Bullseye 2.2    725     110
	98      Red Dot 1.5     700     106     accurate load
	105     Bullseye 2.0    720     118     dup factory ball.
	105     FFFg    11.5    725     121     dup factory ball.
	115     2400    5.2     700     112
	104     Fact. Load      725     121     50-yd. MRT=2.4"

Pg. 244:  44 Smith & Wesson American
	200     Bullseye 4.5    800     286
	200     Unique  5.5     765     264     MAX.
	200     230P    4.3     740     246     MAX.
	218     FFg     25.0    660     196     Approx. orig. load
	205     Fac. Load       682     212     to-yd. MRT=2.5"

Pg. 246:  44 Colt
	210     Bullseye 4.0    700     230
	210     FFg     23      660     206     Original Comm. load
	225     FFg     23      640     207     U.S.Army load

Pg. 250:  45 Colt

Historical notes:  Introduced in 1873 by Colt as one of the cartridges
for their famous RPeacemakerS [...]  It was originally a blackpowder 
number loaded with 40 grains of FFg powder and a 255 grain lead bullet.
Muzzle velocity of the original load was about 810 fps.

	235	Unique	10.0	1020	548
	250	Unique	 9.0	880	445
	255	Bullseye 6.0	870	434
	255	Unique	 8.6	860	425	Dup. Factory ball.
	255	2400	17.5	1010	585
	255	Fact. Load	855	405	50-yd.  MRT=1.6"

Pg. 250:  45 Smith & Wesson
	230	FFFg	28.0	730	276	Military load
	250	FFFg	28.0	710	283	Commercial load
	230	Bullseye 4.6	740	284	MAX.
	250	Bullseye 4.6	715	287	MAX.
	230	Fact. Load	730	276	50-yd. MRT=2.3"
	250	Fact. Load	710	283	50-yd. MRT=2.5"


Hope that this helps to answer the question of how much blackpowder is
the same or similar to how much smokeless!


-- 

E. Michael Smith  ems@apple.COM

'Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it.  Boldness has
 genius, power and magic in it.'  -  Goethe

I am not responsible nor is anyone else.  Everything is disclaimed.
From: pklauren@nmsu.edu (Patrick M Klaurens)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Self Protect Handgun vs. Shotgun.
Date: 5 Jan 93 23:15:54 GMT
Organization: NMSU Computer Science

The only reason I wanna carry a handgun is because when you try to
conceal a shotgun or rifle under your shirt, it looks like you are
trying to conceal a shotgun or rifle under your shirt.
pat
From: donb@igor.tamri.com (Don Baldwin)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Shooting Straight Up
Date: 9 Jan 93 14:25:13 GMT
Organization: TOSHIBA America MRI, South San Francisco, CA

#	What does this mean?  Well, if you shot the bullet, and then stepped
#into the spot you fired the gun from, when the bullet came down, you'd be
#dead.

Which might not actually be such a bad idea, from a Darwinian point of view...

   don

p.s.  I meant that it might improve the species if all people who shot
      straight up were hit by falling bullets, not the above writer in
      particular. :)
From: parker@cac.washington.edu (Michael Parker )
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Reloading Info for .44 Automag
Date: 6 Jan 93 18:22:52 GMT
Organization: UW Computing


I will be aquiring a .44 Automag (different from a .44 magnum automatic)
and I need some good sources of information for reloading purposes.  I
could really use a good book or two that goes into loads using both the
.308 and 30-06 cases, along with the ususal powder and bullet specifications
and reccomendations.

I would also like to hear from people of re-load for .44 automags and would
appreciated any advice.  Also, I understand that one can use standard 
.44 magnum dies for these loads - its just a matter of which casings being
used.

Thanks for any information!

Michael Parker

-- 
****************************************************

Michael W. Parker                       
Client Services Consultant
Academic Computing Center, HG-45
University of Washington
Internet:  parker@u.washington.edu 

****************************************************
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Bersa Thunder 9
Date: 12 Jan 93 03:09:54 GMT
Organization: Western Washington University

Would you really want a gun with "Thunder Nine" etched
into the slide?

Jim "captain thunder" Del Vecchio
From: btree!hale@UCSD.EDU (Bob Hale)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: guns vs. K9s
Date: 5 Jan 93 23:15:08 GMT
Organization: Brooktree Corporation, San Diego

In article <9301050156.AA00147@rutgers.edu> amirza@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Anmar Caves) writes:
#In article <1993Jan4.130458.7348@email.tuwien.ac.at> holger@vmars.tuwien.ac.at (Holger Reusch (Dipl. Gerhard + Joe)) writes:
##A past experience of a relative of mine prompts me to ask for in-
##sights.
##
##Consider the following scenario:
##
##You are confronted with a very  unfriendly  and  rather  big  dog
##(growling,  foam  at  the mouth, suspected rabies) in your garden
##(so carry laws are not an issue).  What gun/ammo would  you  like
##to have with you?
#
#Since I like to follow the first rule of gunfighting (bring a gun),
#I'd have to say that the gun of choice for me is whatever one happens
#to be readily available at the time.  I would certainly hope that
#several rounds from my carry weapon should suffice, and if they didn't,
#and I survived, I'd give serious thought to going with something more
#powerful.

Anwar is absolutely correct - you should bring whatever adequate
firearm that is readily available.  The problem lies in defining
"adequate".

I knew a fellow who worked for the City of San Diego who related the
following story to me:  one of the city's animal control officers
was bitten by a rabid dog after she had emptied the standard issue
.38 revolver into the dog.  She switched to a .45 after that.  I don't
know if even the .45 has the stopping power needed, but she felt a
lot better about the job when she was carrying the .45.

I have seen a .22LR fired into a dog have *absolutely* no effect
whatsoever.  I don't know what finally brought that dog down
because I left the area.

Personally I would use a 12 gauge loaded with #2 or larger shot
and I would be prepared to put several shells into the dog.  You
can assume that the dog may be as much or more of a threat as a
human high on PCP, and such humans feel no pain.

BTW, the new rabies shots are much less painful than the old ones
so it's not as gruelling a treatment at it used to be.  Still,
prevention is the right answer - don't expose yourself unnecessarily
to the rabies virus.

Bob Hale                                      ...!ucsd!btree!hale
...!btree!hale@ucsd.edu                       ...!ucsd!btree!hale@uunet.uu.net