HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: idfraser@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Ian Fraser)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Masons/Knights Templar
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 92 02:18:33 MDT
Organization: Edmonton Remote Systems #1, Edmonton, AB, Canada

-
-y unlikely that you could become one as in masonry homosexuals are
- not openly admitted.
-
- Eshin-Fun
-



 Really? That should come as quite a surprise to the openly homosexual members
of my Lodge!

For the record, Masonry has the following requirements for membership(or did,
when I joined 5 years ago):

1) You must be a deist. (You must believe in _some_ form_ of Divine.)
2) You must be male.
3) You must be freeborn. (True, it's hardly applicable now, but it _is_ still a
requirement)
4) You must be well recommended. (Someone you have known for at least 2 years
must put your name forth)

That's it. Period. There are _no_other_ requirements!!

' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' '
 
Bright Blessings to you and yours!  
 
Hawk
 
Circle of Ashtoreth, 
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada.
From: conib@peri.gvg.tek.com (Coni Britten)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Nazi Germany (was Re: Freedom of Religion as well as everything else)
Keywords: Civil Rights, Pagan
Date: 26 Aug 92 23:25:42 GMT
Organization: Grass Valley Group, Grass Valley, CA

In article <1992Aug26.062340.3851@colorado.edu> bear@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Bear Giles) writes:
>
>BTW, a friend of mine (and follower of Asatru) claims that the U.S.
>is now much worse than Nazi Germany, and his parents lived under
>Hitler.  He claims the S.S. could _not_ seize your property and
>demand you prove "innocence," at great cost, before recovering it.

Far be it from me to defend our facist society here in the U.S., but on
this one small point ...

Under the Nazi regime my uncle was placed in a concentration camp for two
years for listening to a foreign radio broadcast.  He was a very well
known and respected doctor of medicine in Klaipeda, Lithuania.  His daughter
had (innocently) written the damning information in a school report that
had a title something like "What my family life is like".

There's no way you can say that this scenario happens in the U.S.  However,
it is very true that the Nazis did *not* seize my uncle's property; when he
got out of the concentration camp, he returned home with his property (if
not his health) still intact.

My uncle was not Jewish.  However, I understand that Jewish people's
properties were confiscated when they were sent to the camps; of course,
they were not expected to return.

(It was the Soviets who seized my uncle's property after the war was
"over".)

Frankly, while I *would* say (and have said, many, many times) that the U.S.
is *approaching* the facisism of Nazi Germany, IMHO anyone who is innocent
enough to claim that the U.S. is "much worse" than Nazi Germany effectively
trivializes the horror that occurred there, even if it was not their intent.

Again, I am *not* defending the facism here in the U.S. -- this so-called
War on Drugs is truly an excuse for our government to degenerate to an
even deeper degree of facism than had existed before.  However, they aren't
gassing people and they aren't incarcerating people for LISTENING to the
"wrong ideas".  Not yet, anyway.


Coni Britten
conib@peri.gvg.tek.com
From: wce@hogbbs.scol.pa.us (Bill Eichman)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Gathering of the Tribes
Date: 27 Aug 92 19:26:55 GMT
Organization: The Heart of Gold BBS, Lemont PA

sfee@ncratl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM (Sandie Fee) writes:

> I'm trying to find out about the Gathering of the Tribes which is to take
> place in Northern Georgia the middle of Sept. Any information as to when,
> where, and whats to take place would be greatly appreciated. 
> 


Speaking of festivals in Ga., anyone here following what's been happening 
with the Spiral festival? I haven't heard-- is it defunct, or still 
occuring annually?

Thanks, Bill
From: mimir@milton.u.washington.edu (Al Billings)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Wicca (was Re: Pat Robertson)
Date: 4 Sep 92 07:24:45 GMT
Organization: The Friends of Loki Society

In article <Bu1Fow.IuC@news.cso.uiuc.edu> ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe) writes:
>
>They are Celtic.  There is at least one inscription from Celtic Britain of
>Roman times which identifies a horned figure of a god as Cernunnos.  This is the
>source of the later name Herne.  Also, the Wild Hunt stories are even more
>prevelant in Wales (a Celtic country) than in England. 

 Uh, The Wild Hunt is Germanic. Sorry. IT is known by quite a few names in
Germany and in the more Northern regions. It is Odhinn riding with either
the dead or his servants.

> I am not sure what the
>first historical/archaeological incident of the Green Man is but I believe that
>I have seen indications that it is more common in Celtic areas.  I am not sure
>what the ADF has to do with the issue, since we were discussing Wiccan sources
>and ADF is much more recent.  Where have you seen citations for Wicca being 
>based on English folk-lore?  I've given evidence for my position twice now, but
>you have yet to give even one example of what you mean.  You keep bringing up
>elements which come in from Ceremonial Magic, but we started with the statement
>that Wicca was created from Ceremonial elements, mixed with Celtic folklore.
>What are you actually arguing?  What is your point?

 My point? My point is that Wicca is not Celtic in any way other by the
names it has appropriated for a couple of things. Things like the Maypole
are part of English Folklore. I mention the ADF because it is a Celtic
group, as opposed to various kinds of Wicca which are not.

Wassail,
Grendel

                           mimir@u.washington.edu
    /\  /\       +----------------------------------------+
   /__\/__\      | "I know that I hung on the windy tree  |          |
  /\  /\  /\     |  all of nights nine, wounded by Gar,   |          |
 /__\/__\/__\    |   given to Odhinn, myself to myself,   |          |
    /\  /\       | upon that tree of which none can tell  |          |
   /__\/__\      |      from what root it rises."         |    ______|______
                 +----------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: fannin@news.cis.ohio-state.edu (elizabeth a fannin)
Subject: desert wind
Organization: The Ohio State University Department of Computer and Information Science
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 19:30:53 GMT

i posted this once i think, but it has cropped up again.  "desert winds" is
the group headed (?) by alan scott bachman.  they have 4 tapes out now:
"ancient winds," "mystic winds," "return to the goddess (possibly "goddess
dance?")" and "return to the goddess 2" is now out, i think.  there are some
songs repeated on the various tapes (there's a chiftetelli--a greek rhythm--on
"return to the goddess" and on ?the one with the yellow cover? as "journey of
light").  however, it is indeed neat stuff (with a strong middle eastern
flair, for us dancers! :-) (hi lynne! :-)

i think i have an address for them.  if anyone wants (and no one else posts)
it, i will try to remember to bring it in....

if you like them you might like some of delilah's tapes; they are rather
similar in flavor.  and ramal lamarr's stuff, "omens, oracles and mysticisms
of dance."  

on another note: anyone know anything about the group "the dead can dance?" i
have several albums and i love their stuff (at least some of it for dancing),
but i have no idea what language they're singing in sometimes.....
From: canders@isr.harvard.edu (Carl E. Anderson)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: free lionfood! (was: Celtic Cross)
Date: 1 Sep 92 15:48:49 GMT
Organization: Harvard University, Cambridge, MA

In article <1992Sep1.015904.11214@latcs1.lat.oz.au> burns@latcs1.lat.oz.au (Jonathan Burns) writes:
>Hang on dere, man. You mean there are _pre-Christian_ British crosses?
>WHERE? I presume we're talking about a distinct quartered-circle design,
>here, not a triskele or swastika.
>
>I mean I'd love this to be true ...

	Well, be happy dude - it's true.  The quartered circle is very very
old.  It's found in Celtic symbols and I think some of the ancient
Scandinavian rock carvings as well (but I'm not sure).
	It's not that surprising to find, as it's a very simple and
intuitive design.  Take two lines and lay 'em across each other.  There you
go.  SImplest thing in the world.  If you really wanna get fancy, draw a
circle around them.  Woah!  Pretty amazing stuff.

	Yup, Christian, pre-Christian - that cross is everywhere.

Cheers,
Carl

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl Edlund Anderson	            	"Hefi ek ok aldri sva reitt vapn
canders@isr.harvard.edu			at manni at eigi hafi vidh kommit."
OR
anderso2@husc.harvard.edu			- Skarphedhinn Njalsson 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: gmg@aatdev.uucp (Gary Godfrey)
Subject: Re: Children's Pagan Books???
Organization: Andrew/KMW
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 92 16:25:23 GMT

donita@scic.intel.com (Donita Thompson) writes:

>What about pagan books for children? Anybody know of any?

Depending on age and what you mean by pagan, I can recommend
books by Zylpha Keatly Snyder (sp?).  You might want to be
careful of some of her books (depending on the attitudes you
wish to impress.) - some of them portray magic and ritual
in a positive light (_The_Egypt_Game_ and _Black_and_Blue_Magic)
others in a somewhat negative light (_The_Witches_of_Worm_).

It's been 15 years since I've read any of them; my memory
may be a little off..


Good Luck,

---------------------
Gary Godfrey				..cs.utexas.edu!dogface!aatdev!gmg
Andrew Corp.
Austin, TX
From: cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Subject: Re: Freedom of Religion as well as everything else
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Keywords: Civil Rights, Pagan
Date: 25 Aug 92 16:36:31 GMT

In article <7513@monmouth.edu> c1741@moncol.monmouth.edu (MICHAEL CARSON) writes:
>
>	I was thinking of Switzerland, myself.  I haven't looked into their
>immigration laws, but I LIKE the thought of all adult males being in the
>military, and keeping their weapons at home (especially considering their
>reluctance to go to war).  Kinda makes the population hard to control, dunnit?

I don't know about this one.  Here is Uhmurka, people are fucking BORN
with guns, and we are an international joke in Europe because of it.
DOesn't make US any less susceptible to mind-control.  Hell, three
little TV commercials picked the last president of the country!

Blessings,
Janis 

Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: mimir@milton.u.washington.edu (Al Billings)
Subject: Re: info wanted on runes
Organization: The Friends of Loki Society
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 06:54:31 GMT

In article <1992Aug27.183037.8109@access.digex.com> corun@access.digex.com (Corun MacAnndra) writes:
>
>Also, isn't the word Anglo-Saxon a combination of the names of two separate
>peoples, one of whom, the Angles, originated in Angleland (ie., England)?
>This would seem to make the Angles a Celtic people joined with the Saxons,
>a Celtic-German (by your definition) people. Three quarters Celtic is pretty
>close to all Celtic for most purposes.

 The name for England is the other way around. The Angles moved there and
then it was named after them. They were not native. They were a germanic
people from Europe, not Celts and not from the isles. The Angles, the
Jutes, and the Saxons were all Germanic.

Wassail,
Grendel

                           mimir@u.washington.edu
    /\  /\       +----------------------------------------+
   /__\/__\      | "I know that I hung on the windy tree  |          |
  /\  /\  /\     |  all of nights nine, wounded by Gar,   |          |
 /__\/__\/__\    |   given to Odhinn, myself to myself,   |          |
    /\  /\       | upon that tree of which none can tell  |          |
   /__\/__\      |      from what root it rises."         |    ______|______
                 +----------------------------------------+


Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: gerda@brewich.hou.tx.us (Gerda Thunarsson)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: source for masons being luciferian
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 92 14:05:51 CDT
Organization: The Brewer's Witch BBS, +1 713 272 7350, Brewich.Hou.TX.US

My Odhinnsgodi's father was a mason, and my Odhinnsgodi has gotten a 
masonic bible.  It is in that document that I read (or rather was shown) 
that masons are luciferian.  I read that word in that book.  if you want 
i can get you the publication date, and the page number of where i found 
that.
 
Gerda Thunarsson
 

------------------
gerda@brewich.hou.tx.us (Gerda Thunarsson)
(Alternate) gerda%brewich@lobster.hou.tx.us
Origin: The Brewer's Witch BBS -- Houston, TX -- +1 713 272 7350
     "Silence is the voice of complicity" - Vote Early, Vote Often!
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: pciszek@nyx.cs.du.edu (Paul Ciszek)
Subject: Re: Freedom of Religion as well as everything else
Keywords: Civil Rights, Pagan
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 02:34:42 GMT

emarsh@hernes-sun.Eng.Sun.COM (Eric Marsh) writes:

>I feel exactly the same way. With my training and my wife's, we can do
>quite well most anywhere in the world. I rather like the idea of New Zealand.

But will your wife like New Zealand?  The rest of the world is not quite so nice
as American liberals seem to think; I've heard scathing commentaries from
American women who have been to New Zealand and Australia.  In Germany, the
government owns most of the broadcasting.  In France, they think the idea of
"sexual harrasment" is silly.  Consider:  within the last century, most nations
of the world have at some time been ruled by far more thoroughly fascist
governments than anything the US has produced-- yet.
--
Paul Ciszek, pciszek@nyx.cs.du.edu | No nation was ever drunk when wine was
                                   | cheap.   -- Thomas Jefferson
From: cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: yet another weensy question from you-know-who
Date: 3 Sep 92 18:50:57 GMT
Organization: University of California, Irvine

This occurred to me a while back and I never resolved it.  I was GOING
to post and see if anyone knew anything I didn't, but forgot to.  

ANYway, I was wondering if there were any non-xtian symbolism behind a
sand dollar.  I already KNOW the xtian symbolism -- you're talking to
someone who did 12 years of the catholic school thang, so don't bother
to post that.

Based on the appearance of the thing, though, it MUST have had some kind
of Mediterranean Pagan interpretation.  I mean, REALLY -- It has a five-
pointed star on it, it has five of Aphrodite's totemic birds inside, and
provided the dollar is large enough, it has a nice fat genital cleft on
the front.

Based on this, and based as well on the fact that it is called a xtian
symbol -- and so many other xtian symbols are borrowings -- it must have
been a Pagan symbol as well.  Hell, I use one of the things as a ritual
pentacle!  Natural, cheap, plentiful, and prettier than any hammered
plate ever made -- and a lot more evocative, given the cleft and the
doves inside.

However, I have never found anything -- even in Walker's works -- that
talks about a sand dollar as a spiritual symbol in the ancient world.
While I trust Barbara Walker (in any but etymological circumstances), I
am not prepared to believe that, given the copious symbolism in the
thing, it was never used in a Pagan way in the Mediterranean. 

Bascially, this is just an open call for information that anyone has
heard about Pagan symbolism given the sand dollar.  It has just GOT to
be out there . . .

Blessings,
Janis
From: krikket@meltdown.chi.il.us (D. 'krikket' Krick)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Canada (was: Re: Freedom of Religion as well as everything else)
Date: 1 Sep 92 23:19:36 GMT
Organization: The Meltdown - A Team Star BBS

In article <1992Aug31.220149.8878@samba.oit.unc.edu>, shava@hermes.oit.unc.edu
(Shava Nerad Averett) writes:
>Gee, I have a brother in Bellingham, WA...  I really like Vancouver.  Anyone
>wanna look into a pagan diaspora to BC if the elections go badly in November?
>
>/* almost serious, but wish I weren't */

Can you honestly say that the elections COULD go good?  I honestly don't see a
choice..  And I'm interested, but I fail to see how a 21 year old rent-a-cop
(err., Security Officer) could hack out a living in Canada, before I finish my
schooling...

Krikket               ! krikket@meltdown.chi.il.us ! USnail:3 Danada Square E.
a.k.a Doug Krick      ! Team Star Charter Member   !        Suite 246
Data ph# 708/665-9732 ! #include<std.disclaimers>  !        Wheaton, Il 60187
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Just another commentary on the sad state of affairs on our nation today.
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: manes@tandon.com (Dane Manes)
Subject: Church of All Worlds?
Organization: Tandon Corporation, Moorpark, CA
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 16:45:44 GMT

Hi guys!

Got a question here.  I was reading a copy of the _Green Egg_, found by one
of my roomates in a search of the eternally bizarre (that also netted the 
current copy of _Mondo 2000_), and noticed that it was published by the
"Church of All Worlds."  Now Heinlein only wanted to make us think about 
what we were doing and where we were going, but I feel that he also came up
with some pretty good ideas as well.

Are these guys for real?  What are they about?  I'm going to call them
today (the Los Angelese Nest) and see what's up, but I'd like to have your
opinions as well.

May you never thirst,
Dane
-- 
Dane Manes                  manes@tandon.com                 voice 805-378-7899
Tandon Corporation          76376.2266@compuserve.com          fax 805-529-9033
Product Support Engineer    "If it ain't broke, it hasn't been tested by Dane!"
---                                                                         ---
From: cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Subject: Re: New pagans and reading
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 2 Sep 92 05:36:41 GMT

An especially good piece of advice is to get the archaeological
information from the horse's mouth.  DO NOT TAKE AN OCCULT BOOK AS THE
LAST WORD IN ARCHAEOLOGICAL INFORMATION.  Many people have an agenda or
certain point of view they want to push (this occurs in the scientific
community as well, of course, but usually gets torpedoed quickly by
other scientists), so try to get to a university library and find some
doctoral theses on the subject or some academic papers or textbooks.
Supplement this with the occult reading, of course, since the
spiritualists can shake you up and make you aware of the larger cultural
biases at work in the scientific community.  And trust your own
judgement at the last.  

I just finished two books on Minoan Crete -- _Town, Palace, and House
Cult in Minoan Crete_ by Geraldine Cornelia Gesell and another wonderful
one called _Minoans: Life in Bronze Age Crete_ by Rodney Castleden.
This last comes especially highly recommended, as it addresses many of
the commonly held "facts" about Minoans and how they may be
overidealized as peace-loving flower-children on the basis of very
little evidence (mostly on the sole basis of their very powerful and
vivid artwork -- it's really gorgeous).  I am going to continue
researching into Crete, and supplementing it with my other readings by
Barbara Walker, Merlin Stone, Rosalind Miles, and others.  (A friend of
mine -- The Marvelous Sally -- keeps encouraging me to read Mary Daly as
well.)

Basically, don't make the mistake of taking Aradia et al as a valid work of
archaeological research on its own.  You can't approach something like
this from only one point of view.  Take heed in the fact that many
modern books written by archaeologists (especially about Minoans :-))
are written by people who are just as fascinated by the spirituality as
you are; that's why they're studying it.

Blessings,
Janis
From: c1741@moncol.monmouth.edu (MICHAEL CARSON)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Pat Robertson quote (good for a nervous laugh)
Date: 27 Aug 92 12:58:11 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Monmouth College, W. Long Branch, N.J.  07764

In article <l9ok6lINN2sa@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> emarsh@hernes-sun.Eng.Sun.COM (Eric Marsh) writes:
>
>In that case may I suggest that you do what I've been doing? Walk down
>to your local democratic office and volunteer to work for the candidate
>of your choice. Send a donation to the candidate of your choice. Write
>a letter to your local paper about the secret activities of the religious
>right. Talk to people. Enlighten them.
>
>Eric

	I have to be VERY carefull in doing this.  I work for the DoD, so
the Hatch Act greatly restricts what I may and may not do.  :(


|o|\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/|o|
|o| Of Course I speak  |      michael carson       | Carpe Diem, Man.        |o|
|o|  only for myself.  | c1741@moncol.monmouth.edu |                -me      |o|
|o| Would YOU let me   +---------------------------+-------------------------|o|
|o|  speak for you?!?  |      All flames to: nobody@moncol.monmouth.edu      |o|
|o|\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/|o|
From: cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Subject: Re: Can Someone help?
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 30 Aug 92 22:07:39 GMT

In article <q1y9PB20w165w@korova.uucp> system@korova.uucp (razorback) writes:
>arciordi@nyx.cs.du.edu (Andy Ciordia) writes:
>
>> 
>> I have asked earlier, for information on learing the Techniques of
>> magik/teachings of all sorts of pagan kinds, yet I recieved no response.. 
>> I am living in Charlotte North Carolina, does anyone know anything on
>> someone I could contatct to help me with this?  I take all suggestions and
>> questions openly.. So pleases respond..
>
>i would suggest reading...read, read, read!

Let me second this (as a matter of fact, I'm going to second this even
is you don't let me).  Finding this stuff out on your own is
unbelievably rewarding; when I did it, I would read things up until 4am
without stopping because I could bear to put the books down.  (Of
course, this is a normal occurrence with me . . . )

I am now a Solitary because, after ingesting all this, I wanted some 
time to sift through it and digest it -- add what I would to it, and try 
to color it with myself.  Right now, I'm investigating Minoan Crete and
pre-Socratic and pre-classical Greece and Tuscany.  Just reading the
books can get those ol' creative juices flowing -- then just think to
yourself a while and wait until it sinks into your bones, and you find
out what you need to add from yourself.    

Think of it this way -- figuring this stuff out is the most endlessly
challenging and most fun puzzle you'll ever do.  And have you ever been
doing a crossword and had someone tell you the answers over your
shoulder?  It's most fun to do it on your own!

>then go and experiment with the ideas presented...get a good grasp on 
>everything at first, and then zero in on things that catch your 
>eye...anything by joseph campbell is good for starters, or lynn V. 
>andrews...particularly carlos castaneda...(sorry, i mispelled more than 
>half of those)

Fixed `em up for you! 

Blessings,
Janis 

From: reykja@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Reykja Sigurdsson)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 02:54:39 GMT
Subject: Thanks -- flames and all
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: alt.pagan

Hailsa...

        I want to thank everyone for their replies to my posting about
abandoning the sinking ship. Unfortunately, I pushed the wrong 
button and deleted all of my e-mail. ;-( Groan. Moan.) Anyway, if 
anyone wants a response, please re-post me at rks@teal.csn.org. 


-thanks! 

rks