HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Too straight looking to be gay
Date: 2 Sep 92 04:45:36 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Sep2.044536.8754
Distribution: usa
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <2AA43B35.13060@ics.uci.edu> tittle@ics.uci.edu (Cindy Tittle Moore) writes:
>Suppose I don't like chocolate chip cookies.  Now, there is one of two
>ways I can go about "expressing" this dislike of mine.  I can simply
>refrain from sampling chocolate chip cookies as they are offered, or I
>can stand up on the table and proclaim my dislike of chocolate chip cookies.
>Anyway, the point is, once you stand on the table, you offend everyone
>else who *does* like chocolate chip cookies.

Actually, you also offend everybody who *IS* a chocolate chip cookie,
an arguably worse offense.

>Furthermore, that you
>felt it necessary to call attention to this by standing on the table
>when you could have simply passed it by brings up the next question of
>*why* is it that you dislike chocolate chip cookies?  Simple dislike
>no longer seems to be the real motivation, because simple dislike
>would have been satisfied with that "no thanks."

Yep.

>I can't quite carry this analogy further without it melting, so I'll
>skip the rest of the parable and point out that by standing on the
>table over "nellyness", so to speak, you've raised the question of how
>much homophobia YOU have.

Bingo.

There are lots of groups of people I might have some vague, unformed
dislike of, but I generally keep my mouth shut about 'em so as not to
unduly offend those unlucky enough to be on my shitlist, AND because
I try to avoid acting dumb and having others think poorly of me.

I suppose if neither of these is reason enough to keep from blabbing,
then you might as well go whole hog, as Alan and Sargon have done.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Not necessarily Christian
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 92 19:33:30 GMT


It has been pointed out to me by email that when I began one
of my postings with "John Graves, who is a Christian
minister," I was not necessarily accurate, for John's
signature says "Unitarian Universalist Minister."  My
correspondent is a UU who finds my implication unsupportable
as a general statement.  It was not my intention to insult
UUs.

The correspondent also points out that John Graves is an
"Intern Minister." This means he has completed his academic
requirements for ordination.  He has yet to convince the
congregations concerned of his fitness to be ordained.

<> Much learning does not teach understanding. -- Heraclitus
-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: vanyel@camelot.bradley.edu (Alan Williams)
Subject: Re: Too straight looking to be gay
Organization: Bradley University
Distribution: usa
Date:  1 Sep 92 22:32:37 GMT

In <1992Aug31.203251.25057@microsoft.com> bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver) writes:
>(anderson)
>/Along comes Alan.  He says, in essence, queens make him
>/queasy.  Shades of Sarver.  He defends this as a personal
>/choice, a matter of his personal tastes.  Hotly crisped, and
>/unlike Sarver, he backtracks.  And that's where we are just
>/now.
>So, Alan isn't allowed to have any personal tastes which conflict
>with gay political correctness, is that it?  It's okay to have
>personal opinions, as long as they're not offensive to anyone?

No, Bob.  It's okay to have personal opinions, as long as they mirror Jess
and Arne's.

>Gosh, Batman; is this what we call a double standard?

You know, Robin, I think you're right....

(Though I would've thought "Bob" was short for "Robert." 8-)

>I have credibility with those who matter, Anderson.  I don't worry
>about the rest of the world.

Credibility, like anything else on the planet, is subjective.  I've
discussed this situation with a lot of people, including some who read the
net.  It's amazing how many of them agree with me on this....

>>Lately I've been on the heated end of this debate for
>>supposedly saying the same things.  I wanna clear the
>>record: I don't condone discrimination.  Point and period.
>>I make my decisions based on *personalities* of
>>*individuals*, much as many of you may think to the
>>contrary.
>/(anderson)
>/... is that your credibility has been severely compromised.
>/Evidently you want to respond to that (makes sense to me) by
>/getting disentangled from Sarver (good idea) and at least
>/being judged as yourself only.
>Hear that, Alan?  I have "tainted" you.  Now it's YOUR credibility
>that is compromised.  

Yeah, I noticed.  Did you ever notice how it hasn't occurred to anyone
that I might have my *own* opinions on this?

>What is it Voltaire said? "I may not agree with a word you say, Sir,
>but I will defend to the death your right to say it"?

Doesn't work with this crowd, Bob.

--

 ________________ Alan Williams | vanyel@camelot.bradley.edu _________________
 \/ "Are you afraid I'm jeopardizing my secret identity, Ned?  I don't     \/
     *have* one, remember?"  --The Black Condor, _Black Condor_ #5
From: adye@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com (Alan Dye)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Question about Microsoft Corp.
Date: 26 Aug 92 17:52:53 GMT
Organization: Hewlett Packard - Boise, ID

I interned with Microsoft for 9 months between Jan 90 and Aug 90.  I found
the company to be pretty positive. They have an employee's Gay and Lesbian
group.  I don't know who is the contact now.  If you end up working there,
you might contact some of the people you see post to soc.motss who are
from MS.

I don't know about domestic partner benefits.  

As for working for the company in general, 

When I was there, there were about 4500 employees.  I understand that
number has doubled since then.  I applied with them when I graduated in
May, and got an offer, but came to work for HP.  While interviewing there, 
I found that the company attitude had changed since I had worked there.  More
stress, more problems, etc... Part of being a part of a rapidly growing
company I guess.

Alan


___________________________________________________________________________
Alan W. Dye   PHONE: (208) 323-6167        adye%hpdmd48.boi@hp.com
                FAX: (208) 323-6344        71053,1301@compuserve.com
    
Software Applications Specialist           "Cleverness is its own reward."
Hewlett Packard Boise Site Operations  
Information Systems Group                  #include <disclaim.h>
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance)
Subject: Re: "fuck"
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 18:53:07 GMT

I like 'fuck me' when said as an expression of amazement, myself.

--
John Dorrance  * Don't fuck with Ms. Congeniality *  thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu

	Every jumbled pile of person has a thinking part that wonders
	     what the part that isn't thinking isn't thinking of
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Sim? status?
Date: 30 Aug 92 03:33:07 GMT
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison


In article <la09jpINN43s@mizar.usc.edu>
adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:

>In article <1992Aug29.204717.2668@macc.wisc.edu> 
>anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:

>> Since I am not married as of yet, willing suitors are
>> perfectly welcome to try being charming.  I've been known to
>> yield to various alluring types.

>I know of one tall, willowy, movie-star handsome creature in 
>West Hollywood with a passion for silent movies, Elisabeth
>Schwarzkopf, and Italian food, whose middle names are Charm 
>and Alluring, who might fit the bill.

He sounds wonderful, that's for sure.

>I believe that all he'd require from you is a big, fat
>monthly check.

You've raised your rates, I see.  Is there a demo version?

It goes the other way; I was looking for something more in
the line of a sugar-chicken; these bones are not too old for
jumpin', but they're tired as hell of workin'!

>Should I hook you up?

Excuse me?  What *are* you proposing?  I have all the
apparatus in perfect working order already, including the
plumbing and the trailer hitch.

>Arne <batting eyelashes furiously>

Aha, that explains the furious wind just now coming
from the west.

Jess (thinking I know how those movie stars get ahead)

<> The emotions may be endless.  The more we express them,
<> the more we may have to express. -- E.M. Forster
-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
From: his@the-temple.East.Sun.COM (Howard Solomon - SunExpress Support Engineer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: The Life of Reilly
Date: 4 Sep 1992 16:41:49 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: his@the-temple.East.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: the-temple.east.sun.com

In article 12919@microsoft.com, georgere@microsoft.com (George V. Reilly) writes:
> Oh, Ry!  Leeeeeeeeeeeeead us into temptation.
> 
> But remember: don't rile Reilly by calling him O'Reilly.
> ________________
> George V. Reilly   <GeorgeRe@Microsoft.Com>

OK.  We'll just call you RADAR.


---
========================================================================
Howard I. Solomon			|ELECTION '92
Software Support Engineer, SunExpress	|Hold your nose and vote for Bill!
his@east.sun.com			|
=========================================================================
From: amz@iguana.cis.ohio-state.edu (Arnold M Zwicky)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: crossposting
Summary: no flames here
Date: 25 Aug 92 16:59:39 GMT
Article-I.D.: cis.1992Aug25.165939.23398
Followup-To: soc.motss
Organization: practicing faggots.

my note to the crossposters was not a flame; well, i posted the note
on this group, so you can judge for yourself.  indeed, i assumed that
most people had crossposted without realizing it; they just got
sucked into it.

the names and addresses of those who posted on the thread are public
knowledge, available to anyone who followed the thread, or even just
the headers in the thread.  i have said nothing more about any
individual poster - not the names of those who replied to me (i
have mostly forgotten them, and have not saved any of the
correspondence), nor what was in replies from particular people.

otherwise, *everyone* who posted in the relevant time span got
my message, as i said.  some of them were apparently trying to stop
the crossposting, without realizing they were contributing to it.

there is no persecution here.

arnold (who will now not post on this subject further or reply
  to any further e-mail on it)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: vanyel@camelot.bradley.edu (Alan Williams)
Subject: Re: Gay Homophobia (was Re: Too straight looking to be gay???) (was re: UNGAY GAY)
Organization: Bradley University
Distribution: usa
Date: 25 Aug 92 21:22:08 GMT

In <l9iq3eINNcqd@mizar.usc.edu> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
>anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) steps between
>mean old abrasive me and nice, caring, thoughtful
>Alan Williams, when he writes:

Whoa.  I like the abrasive types!  8-)

>> Notice that Arne's message is: this is how *I* feel about it.
>(And what other way to feel about it legitimate? <Insert gigantic
>smileyheadthing here>)
>> And notice that Alan's message is: this is how *I* feel
>> about it.
>Yes, well....  <Insert gigantic, etc. ...>
>> Surely that *is* the middle ground.
>Hmmmmmm.  I still think I'm righter.  <Insert, etc. ...>

Nah, it's your imagination, Arne.  *I'm* righter.  8-)

(BTW, all those insertions have got me wondering here. . . .  8-)

--
 ________________ Alan Williams  vanyel@camelot.bradley.edu ___________________
 \/ A hypothetical paradox: What would happen in a battle between an         \/
    _Enterprise_ security team, who always get killed soon after appearing,
    and a squad of Imperial Stormtroopers, who can't hit the broad side of
    a planet?                 	--Tom Galloway
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton)
Subject: Re: British spellings
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 92 05:39:52 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <2aa4f041@ThreeL.co.uk> jf@threel.co.uk (John Fisher) writes:
>
>Btw, Fowler recommends "connexion", "inflexion" etc,
>although most British people regard these as American
>spellings.  I use them, although 3L house style doesn't. 

Hmmm.  I regard them as British, or perhaps Canadian, spellings.

-- 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Hamilton   jfh@netcom.com   P. O. Box 281107   SF, CA   94128-1107
From: rjfleck@cmn3.Stanford.EDU (R. J. Fleck)
Subject: Re: Sept 8th: "A Vigil for Lesbians and Gay Youth"
Organization: CCRMA, Stanford University
Distribution: ca
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 92 16:21:00 GMT

In article <1.gld.2sp92.ulmo@q.net> ulmo@armory.com (Brad Allen) writes:
>"A Vigil for Lesbians and Gay Youth"
>
>A vigil in support of lesbian, gay, and bisexual inclusion in the
>Public School Health Textbooks:
>
>September 8th
>8:00 p.m.
>the New State Building
>(Van Ness & McAllister Streets)
>
>for more information, call LYRIC at (415) 703-6150
>
>[Recently, the very old and politically "Right" members of the State
>Board of Education basically asked for reversal of progress made for
>the textbook content including lesbians, gays, and bisexuals, for the
>next seven to ten years.]

i think, as do others i'm sure, that this is an important issue...  i
will probably be driving up tuesday late afternoon and would be
willing to carpool anyone who would like to come along...  :-)

rj
From: akcs.toby@ddsw1.MCS.COM (Toby Schneiter)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Ok, I did it.
Date: 25 Aug 92 22:00:04 CDT
Keywords: gay symbols, pride

I really empathize with the emotions expressed in your posting. 15 years
ago I thought nothing of appearing in the media, engaging in gay rights
demonstrations - even going to jail trying to get a gay marriage license.
 Today I the extent of my "evident outness" is wearing a lambda earring
and having a pink triangle in the window of my truck.  Mosty people at my
work know I am a lesbian, and I don't "make up boyfriends", etc.  But I
sometimes feel as though I can't, or won't wear my "Pride" shirts
anywhere except to the gay areas of Chicago, and that, in some ways makes
me feel like I am not doing as much as I should/could.  Maybe it is old
age, or plain apathy, or different priorities in my life. I'm not sure,
but I do know that those of us who continue to openly proclaim their
gayness and who have dedicated a large portion of their lives to fighting
for our rights have my wholehearted gratitude and support.  And as hard
as it is to live your life fighting, sometimes I sit back and envy them.
From: vanyel@camelot.bradley.edu (Alan Williams)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Too straight looking to be gay??? (was re: UNGAY GAY)
Date: 30 Aug 92 07:06:44 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Bradley University

In <l9tas1INNk7n@mizar.usc.edu> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
>In article <vanyel.715034438@camelot> 
>vanyel@camelot.bradley.edu (Alan Williams) writes:
>> Try reading *all* my posts.  You might learn something.
>I'd rather reread _Middlemarch_.

Your choice.  Personally, I'd go for _The Mill on the Floss_....

--

 ________________ Alan Williams | vanyel@camelot.bradley.edu _________________
 \/ "Are you afraid I'm jeopardizing my secret identity, Ned?  I don't     \/
     *have* one, remember?"  --The Black Condor, _Black Condor_ #5
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: musical finale
Date: 28 Aug 92 01:59:24 GMT
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison


In article <1992Aug27.015649.18226@syacus.acus.oz.au>
brent@syacus.acus.oz.au (Brent Davies) writes:

>>In article <1992Aug24.070421.5492@syacus.acus.oz.au>
>>brent@syacus.acus.oz.au (Brent Davies) writes:

>>}      --Honegger's "Adagio for Strings"
>          ^^^^^^^^

>(*gakk!*) Did I write that?  I meant Hovahness.  (sp?  Good
>lord, Jess, help?)

Please, please, no need to exaggerate, just "good Jess" will
do.  It's spelled B-a-r-b-e-r.

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: brent@syacus.acus.oz.au (Brent Davies)
Subject: Tangled Family Trees (was Re: Redefining Self)
Organization: Australian Centre for Unisys Software, Melbourne
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 05:47:31 GMT

aberson@enh.nist.gov writes:

>Oh my.  This sounds too much like Daivd's family.  He is an only child,
>has 11 sisters and two brothers, all of them his first cousins.  In
>addition, his father is his uncle, making him his own first cousin.

Once my mother's father's mother and my mother's mother's father were dead,
my mother's father's father married my mother's mother's mother and proceeded
to have several children.  Three generations on, none of us have *yet*
figured out what relationship they are to us.  My mother's family tree looks
more like a topiary. 

I'm not fibbing; this is true.  It *does* sound *WICKED*, though.  Nan?

--Brent
From: jf@threel.co.uk (John Fisher)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: practicing roles
Date: 2 Sep 92 12:41:52 GMT
Organization: 3L Ltd, 86/92 Causewayside, Edinburgh EH9 1PY, UK


In article <1992Aug30.024543.21931@cis.ohio-state.edu>,
amz@iguana.cis.ohio-state.edu (Arnold M Zwicky) writes:

> [on comparitive nelliness]
> so, sure, it works.  this doesn't mean there are gay genes
> that will make my wrists go limp, or whatever.  there's plenty
> of room for learning.  just remember that we learn what we
> are prepared to learn, and what we want to learn.  

One tiny example: I was suprised to learn, reading here,
that crossing your legs by putting one knee on top of the
other is regarded in the States as typically a nelly thing
to do.  In the UK, and I think most other places, this is
completely neutral behaviour.  Everyone does it. 

--John
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: daniel@nstn.ns.ca (Daniel MacKay)
Subject: Re: the openness of USENET
Organization: NSTN Network Operations Centre, Nova Scotia, Canada
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 22:01:40 GMT

Hee hee.  When the issue of using the Internet to transport pictures comes
up, my boss never fails to remind me that there are "some pictures of you
flying around the Internet." Of course, they're not exactly that; there are
just two, and they're in the motss family album, flying around a disk drive
spindle on Steve Dyer's machine.

I think this happpens to anyone who posts to motss; muffins walk into your
door and introduce themselves.  I even had someone come into my office and
ask if the "net dot police" could tell if you were *reading* motss.

It's the perfect icebreaker- try "motss" at your next party!
--
	Daniel MacKay				daniel@nstn.ns.ca
	NOC Manager, NSTN Operations Centre	902-494-NSTN
	Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com (Jake Coughlin)
Subject: Re: Question about Microsoft Corp.
Originator: jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 92 18:31:50 GMT
Organization: IBM T. J. Watson Research

mprats@ocf.berkeley.edu (Mario Prats):
> How gay-frendly is the envvironment [at Microsoft]?
> Any comments will be appreciated.

well, i'd rather work for IBM than get stuck next to Bob Sarver.
-- 
Jason Coughlin ( jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com )
Queer Without A Cause!
"I find myself suddenly in the world, and I recognize that I have one
right alone: that of demanding human behavior of the other." -- Fanon
From: wood@siemens.com. (Jim Wood)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Correspondence
Date: 1 Sep 92 13:04:27 GMT

nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:

>It's been really good for me.  I thank the motss group, in
>general, for providing this for me.

Yes, recently my correspondence with motss folk has picked up quite a
bit -- unfortunately it has coincided with Rob Bernardo's death, and the
correspondence with others has helped greatly.

--
Jim Wood [jwood@siemens.siemens.com] (609) 734-3643
"Rise up on the wings of eagles, and two step among the stars.
 You are not forgotten.  Your smile will echo forever."
   -- Ryerson Schwark, to my friend Rob Bernardo.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver)
Subject: Re: Too straight looking to be gay
Date: 04 Sep 92 02:15:07 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corp.




Hi, Frank.  

I wondered how long it would take.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: norris@infonode.ingr.com (Jeff Norris)
Subject: Re: I'm ready for my closeup, Mr. Archiver
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 15:12:38 GMT

adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:

>In article <1992Aug28.031909.19416@menudo.uh.edu> 
>elee74l@Rosie.UH.EDU writes:
>> In article <1992Aug27.182800.1202@spdcc.com>, 
>> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
>> >Two new head-shots of Arne Adolphson for the motss.pix archive:
>> >arne_adolphson2.gif and arne_adolphson3.gif, to be found in the
>> >usual place.
>>
>> What is the usual place?  
>ursa-major.spdcc.com
>/pub/motss.pix
>A fan!

Why, a fan *club*, Arne.  I'm sure you keep applications by the bedroom door.

><Blush>
>Arne

Oh Arne, please don't be shy.

-jeff, Alabama Chapter President of the Arne Adolphson Fanclub of America.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: vanyel@camelot.bradley.edu (Alan Williams)
Subject: Re: Redefining masculinity
Organization: Bradley University
Distribution: usa
Date: 28 Aug 92 17:44:31 GMT

In <tdober-270892180518@toberkamper.llnl.gov> tdober@llnl.gov (TDO) writes:
>In article <vanyel.714957011@camelot>, vanyel@camelot.bradley.edu (Alan
>Williams) wrote:
>> Whoah, Melinda!  I thought the whole "no female pronouns" thing applied to
>> men referring to *each other* with said pronouns.

>That's not what he (Orr) said.
>He said:
>------------
>In fact, we have a group in Grand Rapids that is supportive in nature
>for gays in their teens.  One of the rules, however, is that you cannot
>refer to each other using feminine pronouns.  I like that a lot.
>------------
>Notice: not "men/boys/males cannot refer to each other using feminine
>pronouns";
>"*YOU*" cannot etc., etc., etc. So unless the group excludes
>women/girls/females entirely, or unless women/girls/females are required to
>call each other "he", the statement is wrong on the face of it, presumably
>because the author is denying the existance of women.
>Clear?

Give me a little credit here, people. . . .

--
 ________________ Alan Williams  vanyel@camelot.bradley.edu ___________________
 \/ A hypothetical paradox: What would happen in a battle between an         \/
    _Enterprise_ security team, who always get killed soon after appearing,
    and a squad of Imperial Stormtroopers, who can't hit the broad side of
    a planet?                 	--Tom Galloway
Newsgroups: soc.motss