HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jones@pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu (Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879)
Subject: Re: CMStP&P RR
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 15:01:20 GMT
Organization: University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA

In article <1992Dec14.030018.17276@bony1.bony.com>,
billg@bony1.bony.com (Bill Gripp) writes, in part:
> 
> Wasn't the original name of the Milwaukee Road
> Chicago, Milwaukee, St. Paul, and Pacific?

No, that was after they went bankrupt and got reorganized over 50 years ago.
A century ago, they were the Chicago, Milwaukee and Saint Paul.  The
original reporting marks were:  CM&StP.  Later, they used CMStP&P as
reporting marks, and with the advent of modern simplified reporting marks
that came with the use of punched card machines in railroad accounting
offices, they became MILW.
					Doug Jones
					jones@cs.uiowa.edu
From: clark@angelo.amd.com (Brad D. Clark)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Talking Detectors
Date: 17 Dec 92 19:12:53 GMT
Organization: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.

tvervaek@col.hp.com (Tom Vervaeke) writes:



>1. Talking Detectors: I assume they talk by broadcasting on a specific
>   frequency. What is this frequency? Does it vary or always the same.
>   My timetable makes no mention of how to listen in.

The SP and UP ones were already mentioned. ATSF talkers will also give
outside air temp as well, **if** you can understand them They use the
**worst** synthesized voice I have ever heard. At least the ones I hear
around Richmond/Martinez.

          /--------\                Brad Clark  clark@brahms.amd.com
         /          \    II            ______________________________           
 [>-----/------------\___II____<]   | [______________________________] |
 ||         C P R R             |   | [______________________________] |
 ||_____________________________|   |\--------------------------------/|
 [------------------------------]   |---------________________---------|
   (*)-(*) `--------` (*)-(*)         (*) (*)                  (*) (*)
---------------------------------------Camas Prarie Railroad--------------
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: roma@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Jon Roma)
Subject: Re: C&NW Signals
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 00:20:36 GMT

In an earlier posting, I wrote that:

>The C&NW's Chicago suburban lines are also equipped with intermittent
>inductive automatic train stop (ATS).  This is not a cab signal system but
>requires that the engineer acknowledge each restrictive wayside signal in
>order to forestall an automatic brake applciation.

I didn't write this very clearly; C&NW has ATS on the north and northwest
suburban lines.  The west suburban line is part of the Chicago-Omaha main
which is equipped with ATC (automatic train control) and cab signals.
This line has the more advanced system because it was once used by UP's
transcontinental streamliners.

Sorry for the ambiguity.
-- 
Jon Roma
Computing and Communications Services Office,
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Internet:  roma@uiuc.edu      	UUCP:      uunet!uiucuxc!uiuc.edu!roma
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: iain@ee.ryerson.ca (Iain Campbell)
Subject: Re: Unusual tunnels?
Organization: Ryerson Polytechnical Institute, Toronto
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 14:50:40 GMT

In article <3840007@hplred.HPL.HP.COM> jbrandt@hplred.HPL.HP.COM (Jobst Brandt) writes:
>Dave Munroe writes:
>
>> I saw part of an episode on PBS where several railroad tunnels in
>> Switzerland or northern Italy spiraled over on themselves, e.g.
>> after you enter the tunnel heading east, the tunnel climbs and
>> spirals counterclockwise, crosses over itself, and then you exit
>> heading south.  Anyone know of other interesting or unusual
>> tunnels like this?
>
>I'm not aware of such tunnels in north America but they are common

 <stuff deleted>

The spiral tunnels on the Canadian Pacific mainline through the 
Kicking Horse Pass in the Canadian Rockies is not just an example 
of one such tunnel, but actually of two in a row.  The tunnels are
built just as you describe, spiraling over top of each other.  Each
tunnel goes through 270 deg. of arc, with the entrance and exit portals
almost one atop another.  I have observed long trains going through
where the head end is coming out of one portal almost directly
above the tail end disappearing into the lower portal!  

I don't know any specs (ie length, grades, etc) on these tunnels -
perhaps someone else could help with this info ...

Iain


    SS  III   GG                                               SS  III   GG
   S     I   G      iain@ee.ryerson.ca       < now showing    S     I   G
    SS   I  G  GGG  iain@acsserv1.ryerson.ca < coming soon     SS   I  G  GGG
..    S  I   G  G                                          ..    S  I   G  G
..  SS  III   GG                                           ..  SS  III   GG
                                                           

Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: ggg9y@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Garth G. Groff)
Subject: Re: The value (if any) of B units
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 13:19:39 GMT

B-UNITS

One important reason for B-units has yet to be mentioned.
There was considerable fear in the early days of diesels
that labor unions would demand that each unit be counted
as a separate locomotive, each with its own crew.  This 
problem was soon settled, but the "building block" concept
was firmly entrenched with EMD (and others) since builders
were not allowed to experiment with new design concepts 
during the war years.  By the time the GP series went into
production, many railroads were already finding that the
B-unit lacked flexibility (as did the cowl design).  So
very few GP or SD B-units were ever built.

~S
--
Garth (Haridas) Groff
"Not yet famous author"
ggg9y@poe.acc.virginia.EDU         Chant "Govinda Bohlo Hare"
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: exudeb@exu.ericsson.se (Dave Breeding, xt-dGR,)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: HO scale
Date: 18 Dec 92 14:41:40 GMT
Reply-To: exudeb@exu.ericsson.se
Organization: Ericsson Network Systems, Richardson TX
X-Disclaimer: This article was posted by a user at Ericsson.
              Any opinions expressed are strictly those of the
              user and not necessarily those of Ericsson.


In article 724640501snx@coastal.UUCP, donl@coastal.UUCP (Don Lockhart) writes:
>Don Lockhart (donl@nlbbs), The Northern Lights, 207-761-4782 (v.32bis/V-HST)
>
>I picked this conference up in hopes of getting info on HO railroads.
>Looking to get into it with my daughter at Christmas. Am I in the
>wrong place (this looks like real railroad (full scale))? If so is
>there a newsgroup dedicated to the "smaller" scales? Thanks, and Merry
>Christmas to all from the Pine Tree State!


Try: rec.models.railroad.
From: jbrandt@hplred.HPL.HP.COM (Jobst Brandt)
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 21:10:37 GMT
Subject: Re: Unusual tunnels?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Palo Alto, CA
Newsgroups: rec.railroad

Dave Munroe writes:

> I saw part of an episode on PBS where several railroad tunnels in
> Switzerland or northern Italy spiraled over on themselves, e.g.
> after you enter the tunnel heading east, the tunnel climbs and
> spirals counterclockwise, crosses over itself, and then you exit
> heading south.  Anyone know of other interesting or unusual
> tunnels like this?

I'm not aware of such tunnels in north America but they are common
in the Alps and, I am sure in the rest of eastern Europe and
elsewhere.  The Austrians, Italians, French and Swiss have many rail
lines with loops in and out of tunnels.  The Swiss have double loops
on both sides of the Gotthard while the old Furka Oberalp cogwheel
line has a steep helix tunnel at 8% grade and minimum radius on top
of which the highway makes a hairpin turn.

Ride train!

jobst_brandt@hplabs.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: roma@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Jon Roma)
Subject: Re: C&NW Signal Placement???
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 18:47:36 GMT

dermer@convex.csd.uwm.edu (Marshall Dermer) writes:

>Although I live close to the C&NW, I have not been able to spot
>many signals.  Does anyone know on what side of the track the C&NW
>spots their signals (as in spotlight, two-light, three-light signals)?

Being a railroad that is primarily left-hand running, signal placement on
the C&NW is slightly different from most U. S. railroads.

On single track, signals are placed to the right side of the track.  On
double track lines, signals are placed to the left side of the track
governed.  Where three or more tracks are in service, signals are mounted on
gantry bridges and are directly above the track governed.
-- 
Jon Roma
Computing and Communications Services Office,
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Internet:  roma@uiuc.edu      	UUCP:      uunet!uiucuxc!uiuc.edu!roma
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: pierson@cimcad.enet.dec.com (Dave Pierson)
Subject: Re: Switch Heaters?
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: 15 DEC 92 17:38:03    

In article <1992Dec15.202905.16236@hpmcaa.mcm.hp.com>, johnm@hpmcaa.mcm.hp.com.mcm.hp.com (John Mosbarger) writes...
>Tom Vervaeke (tvervaek@col.hp.com) wrote:
	Some heaters are electric, so little visible installation is used.
	Dunno if the ever end up UNDER the foot of the rail.  Seems unlikely.

>: 	  How much force is exerted when the switch is moved?
	Enough.  Saw a demo of a limit detection mechanism during a tour of
	AMTRAK signalling School at Lancater, PA.  The had a broomstick, that
	was the right width to check that the point detector was properly
	set.  It had been snapped clean when the detector was set wrong.

	The mechanism in the switch machine WILL indicate that the points
	are one way or the other, or stuck between, via CTC (or hardwire,
	if "local").  Depending on where the offending object is, (and how
	strong), it may or may not keep the points from going over.  The motors
	run about 1/4 to 1/2 horse, geared way down, so crushing broomsticks,
	or feet, is no problem.  If the motor stalls, a Circuit Breaker pops,
	and, if adjusted right, the detector will realy this back to the
	control point as an "out of correspondence" condition.

>: 	  the track is controlled by the Sante Fe dispatcher #10 from
>: 	  Albequerque, NM. I was sitting there thinking what would
>: 	  happen if an animal or human had his foot in the switch when
>: 	  it started moving. Would it be strong  enough to cause serious
>: 	  damage or is there a sensor to sense resistance? Also, how
>: 	  fast do these things move?
	The breaker is set to protect the motor, not the intruding object.
	
>     The best book I know of is "All About Signals," by John Armstrong,
>and I believe it is long out of print.
	Sadly, seems to be so.

thanks
dave pierson			|the facts, as accurately as i can manage,
Digital Equipment Corporation	|the opinions, my own.
40 Old Bolton Rd		|I am the NRA.
Stow, Mass 01775 USA		pierson@msd26.enet.dec.com
"He has read everything, and, to his credit, written nothing."  A J Raffles
From: 737ochs@gw.wmich.edu
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: The value (if any) of B units
Date: 19 Dec 92 00:13:18 EST
Distribution: world
Organization: Western Michigan University

In article <mX3VVB5w165w@1776.COM>, bob@1776.COM (Robert Coe) writes:
> bill@hpcndaw.CND.HP.COM (Bill Kepner) writes:
>> It seems every couple years somebody looking at reducing costs revists the
>> B unit concept.  Apparently costs of maintaining the controls and crew re-
>> lated equipment is not trivial.  Sometimes RR's think they can manage this 
>> special equipment effectively, such as Santa Fe's Super Fleet GP-60B's.  
>> But I wonder what will happen in 10 years when the normal GP-60's are being 
>> used in local service on branch lines (if they have any left) and the B 
>> units become orphan because you usually don't need ABBA lashups of 12000 HP 
>> on non-mainline trains.
> 
> How about if a RR ordered some A units with a shell cab (no gauges, no con-
> trol equipment, no seats, etc.) for MU operation only?  These ersatz B units 
> would be cheaper and have a higher power-to-weight ratio than normal A units.
> If later on the RR wanted them to live out their declining years as A units, 
> they could buy the necessary equipment from the factory or (better yet) can-
> nibalize damaged A units or ones with blown or worn-out engines.

Sounds like a good idea, in fact, UP is already doing this with some of their
SD40's. They remove all the stuff from the cab except the bare necessities to
move it (controls and such) and remove all the good stuff, (cab seats, toilets
air conditioner, refridgerator, etc)

Fred
From: 737ochs@gw.wmich.edu
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Talking Detectors
Date: 19 Dec 92 00:10:21 EST
Organization: Western Michigan University

In article <BzDIv6.A7t@hplabs.hpl.hp.com>, hintzman@hpljah.hpl.hp.com (Jeff Hintzman) writes:
> In article <BzDHys.2Bt@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>, roma@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Jon Roma) writes:
> |> tvervaek@col.hp.com (Tom Vervaeke) writes:
> |> 
> |> >I have several questions regarding railroad track detectors. My local
> |> >timetable mentions three kinds: talking, non-talking, and talk on  
> |> >defect only. Since I know nothing about this topic also I'm going to ask
> |> >for some more help from fellow netters:
> 
> Much useful stuff deleted.
> 
> How do the "smart" detectors count the number of axles that go by?

There's a small transducer mounted inside the rail that detects the magnetic
field as the flanges go by. There are usually at least 2. This way they can
verify the axle count, or they can also determine the speed, which some
detectors will read off.

Fred
From: raveling@Unify.com (Paul Raveling)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Unusual tunnels?
Date: 16 Dec 92 18:03:56 GMT
Organization: Unify Corporation (Sacramento)

In article <3840007@hplred.HPL.HP.COM>, jbrandt@hplred.HPL.HP.COM (Jobst Brandt) writes:
> Dave Munroe writes:
> 
> > I saw part of an episode on PBS where several railroad tunnels in
> > Switzerland or northern Italy spiraled over on themselves, e.g.
> > after you enter the tunnel heading east, the tunnel climbs and
> > spirals counterclockwise, crosses over itself, and then you exit
> > heading south.  Anyone know of other interesting or unusual
> > tunnels like this?
> 
> I'm not aware of such tunnels in north America but they are common
> in the Alps and, ...I am sure in the rest of eastern Europe and

	There's a well-known pair of such spiral Tunnels in the
	Canadian Rockies, in Yoho National Park.  They've built
	a convenient viewpoint for one of these tunnels, directly
	off the highway (Canada 1 [?]), with a platform built
	out from the hillside to a point adjacent to the rails on
	one approach/departure leg.  It's a good vantage point for
	photographing both ends of a train simultaneously.


------------------
Paul Raveling
Raveling@Unify.com
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: carl_henderson@um.cc.umich.edu (Carl Henderson)
Subject: Re: New Superliner Question
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 09:02:24 EST
Organization: University of Michigan
Followup-To: rec.railroad
Distribution: na

In article <22866@drutx.ATT.COM>, sef@drutx.ATT.COM (Scott E. Farleigh)
wrote:
> 
> In article <15DEC92.10597228.0220@VM1.MCGILL.CA>, CZ94@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA (CZ94) writes:
> > According to the Sept. 1991 Passenger Train Journal, the order is
> > for 140 cars: 6 deluxe sleepers, 55 standard sleepers, 20 diners,
> > 15 lounges, 12 crew dorms, and 32 coaches.  There's an option for
> > an additional 39 cars.
> > 
> > Tom Box
> 
> What is the difference between a deluxe sleeper and a standard
> sleeper? Way back in 1983 my wife and I rode the CZ/Desert Wind
> from Denver to L.A. we had the cheapest room. I thought that there
> was only one type of sleeper car.
> 
> Scott Farleigh

As I understand it, the deluxe sleepers will contain only deluxe bedrooms
(not the usual mix of economy, deluxe, family and special).  The are slated
for use on the Lorton-Sanford Auto-Train.

Carl
From: btiffany@pbs.org
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Switch Heaters?
Date: 16 Dec 92 08:35:57 EST
Organization: PBS:Public Broadcasting Service, Alexandria, VA

In article <1gh3o1INNog1@hp-col.col.hp.com>, tvervaek@col.hp.com (Tom Vervaeke) writes:
> Do switches have heaters built into them to allow them to function in
> very cold weather?

Very often, at least at major interlockings or passing sidings.  From my
observation probably the most common is natural gas.  Little blue flame jets
shoot out below and around the switchpoints and moveable rails.  During the
recent storm they were going full blast at Point of Rocks, Maryland, for
example.  In Brunswick, though, they still have the old smudge pots, smokey
things with big orange flames which make you wonder if they might set the
train on fire ...

-- Bruce Tiffany
From: CZ94@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA (CZ94)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Amtrak Routes
Date: 15 Dec 92 17:19:53 GMT
Organization: McGill University

In article <1992Dec15.155629.6661@ecsvax.uncecs.edu> ehr@ecsvax.uncecs.edu (Ernest H. Robl) writes:
>In article <BzAzM6.K4y@nocusuhs.nnmc.navy.mil>, organic@mgr.hjf.org (Miriam Organic) writes:
>> Is true that AMTRAK is going to start using Superliner cars in the east?
>>
>> Does this include the Chicago-D.C. Capatiol Limited?
>> I watch it every day outside my office window.
>
>What you may be referring to is that when the extension of the
>Sunset from New Orleans to Florida is implemented, Superliners
>will reach the east coast.  That's because clearances are
>adequate for superliners on the entire route.
>
>The problems with clearances are in the D.C. area and on the
>Northeast Corridor.  These problems will not magically go away.
>
I thought the Capitol Limited was one of the few routes in the
east which does *not* have clearance problems (others being
Auto Train and the City of New Orleans).  Where are the problems
on the D.C. - Chicago route?

Tom Box
CZ94@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA
From: iain@ee.ryerson.ca (Iain Campbell)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Thomas and Friends
Date: 16 Dec 92 20:55:43 GMT
Organization: Ryerson Polytechnical Institute, Toronto

In article <1992Dec16.150857.9598@ryn.mro4.dec.com> pierson@ggone.enet.dec.com (Dave Pierson) writes:
>"really useful engines" as they pulled their trains over the railway system

Slight but significant correction, it's "Really Useful Engine"  :-) 
                                         ^      ^      ^

Iain
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: tarumph@uncc.edu (Timothy Allen Rumph)
Subject: Re: Amtrak Routes
Reply-To: tarumph@uncc.edu
Organization: University of NC at Charlotte
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 00:32:37 GMT

In article 1gbt0eINN967@master.cs.rose-hulman.edu, luebeckd@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Ken Luebeck) writes:
>In article <dickson-101292151406@fac2-atalk10.atalk.stolaf.edu>  
>dickson@stolaf.edu (Jim Dickson) writes:
>
>> How about Minneapolis-Des Moines-Kansas City?  This summer's Amtrak  
>report
>> suggested this route might turn an operating profit in year 1.
>
>Such a route would be useful not only because of the cities on the route  
>itself, but because it would intersect with Amtrka routes to the west.  
>Presently, to get from Minneapolis to Colorado, one has to go through  
>Chicago, and spend a night, because the timetable does not figure on  
>people getting off of an eastbound transcontinental only to board a  
>westbound. The route would be invaluble for traffic from St.  
>Paul/Mineapolis to anywhere southwest of it.
>
>Another train I would like to see is an overnight train betwen St. Paul/  
>Minneapolis and Chicago, to court some of the numerous business (and  
>other) travelers that currently fly between the cities.
>

Last year I travelled from my home near Charlotte, NC to my parents house in Sedalia, MO. I order to do this I have to go via Washington or Phili., then Chicago. Going out I can leave Charlotte at 1:04 AM and be in Sedalia the second day at 8:44 PM, traveling overnight to Chicago.

The return trip cannot be made with out an overnight layover. This year it will be in New Orleans. (Sedalia to N.O. on the River Cities, N.O. to Charlotte on the Cresent.

An East-West route not through Chicago or New Orleans would be very heplful.

>Also, I read in a local paper a couple days ago that Amtrak is seeking to  
>revive a Chicago-Florida Route, over the former route of the Floridian.

Any new Chicigo to Florida train would go through Atlanta, which the Floridian dod not. The comunities on the route are apparently willing to put up money for station construction/improvement, but the agreements must be worked out with the host railroads and Amtrak's continuing problem with equptment availability and insufficient capital budget are major problems with opening any new routes.

	Tim Rumph
tarumph@mosaic.uncc.edu
KD4OWS@W4BFB.#CLT.NC.USA.NA
(704)455-5259
From: mstoffan@uumark.UUCP (Mark Stoffan)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Edaville move update
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 92 00:14:17 GMT
Reply-To: nlbbs!mstoffan@uunet.uu.net
Distribution: world
Organization: 

Today's Portland (ME) Press Herald had an article on the proposed 
Edaville move to Portland. Apparently Phineas Sprague, the main force 
behind the project, has worked out an agreement with the current 
Edaville owners which gives him until February 1 to come up with 
financing. This effectively removes the possibility of another 
organization acquiring the collection before that date.
        At least $500,000 for collateral is needed by February, of which 
approximately half has been pledged. Area business people are meeting 
next week to put together a financing plan. The asking price for the 
collection is $1.6 million. With the costs involved in moving everything 
the total needed will be at least $2 million. Sprague may need more than 
$500,000 before the banks will lend for a project of this type.
        Originally only donors of $1000 per year for five years were 
considered, but now $35.00 memberships are available as well. Sprague 
hopes individuals and groups will adopt pieces of equipment and take 
responsibility for them.
        At this point the prospects of success would seem to be rather 
favorable. Sprague was quoted as saying that the work is far from 
finished, but at least a bit of time has been bought.
        Stay tuned. . . .

 Mark Stoffan                           mstoffan@nlbbs.UUCP
 Gorham, Maine  USA                     mark@btsgatep.caps.maine.edu
 Member, 470 Railroad Club, &           Mark.Stoffan@lambada.oit.unc.edu
    B & M RR Historical Society, Inc.   bg213@cleveland.freenet.edu
From: clive@x.co.uk (Clive Feather)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Aldwych (London) tube
Date: 15 Dec 92 20:14:58 GMT
Organization: IXI Limited, Cambridge, UK

In article <1992Dec11.210555.11436@sq.sq.com> msb@sq.sq.com (Mark Brader) writes:
> Yet another component of the amalgamation was the western continuation
> from, um, South Kensington to Hammersmith.  This was originally proposed
> as part of the (Metropolitan) District Railway's proposal for an express
> tube line (the "deep level District") under their existing route.  The
> right to construct that much of it was transferred to the Piccadilly
> project, and the lines were aligned so as to provide for an eventual
> junction with the DLD at South Kensington.

The site of the junction is clearly visible at the east end of South
Kensington station on the Piccadilly - the tunnels curve sharply to the
north to meet the originally planned route, but the southern wall of the
tunnel continues in a straight line for a short distance (it's easier to
see than describe).

-- 
Clive D.W. Feather     | IXI Limited         | If you lie to the compiler,
clive@x.co.uk          | Vision Park         | it will get its revenge.
Phone: +44 223 236 555 | Cambridge   CB4 4RZ |   - Henry Spencer
Fax:   +44 223 236 550 | United Kingdom      |
Newsgroups: rec.railroad