HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: burge@qdeck.com (Bill Burge)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Beretta 92 problems
Date: 28 Aug 92 15:07:17 GMT
Organization: Quarterdeck Office Systems, Santa Monica CA

In article <9208261621.AA00704@nuc.Utah.univel.COM> Thi_Huynh@univel.COM (Thi Huynh) writes:
#It's hard to comment on range rental guns since any person can rent
#them and shoot his/her own "newly developed super hot" reloads.
#If I were to experiment with +P+ or hotter reloads, I would rather
#rent a gun to try it out first if I can find a range which rents
#guns.
#

Every range that I have gone to requires that THIER ammo be used in
rental guns for just this reason.

Bill	burge@qdeck.com
From: ahahma@utu.fi (Arno Hahma)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: net.chemist wanted
Date: 26 Aug 92 13:30:28 GMT
Organization: University of Turku

In article <1992Aug24.181113.19481@cbnewse.cb.att.com> sfaber@ihlpb.att.com (Steven R Faber) writes:

#If you have a mixture of metal ions, the one with the lowest potential
#will plate out in preference to the others, until the concentration
#of the first is lowered to such an extent that the voltage across the cell
#increases to the point it can plate out the metal with the next higher
#reducing voltage.   In the case of Zn and Cu, the voltages are so

Thermodynamically correct, but not in practice. Electroplating is not
a reversible process - ever heard about overvoltage at an electrode?
That is, by applying enough voltage both metals can be plated
simultaneously.  There are numerous recipes for plating brass, bronze,
etc. in the books about electroplating. Check any encyclopedia about
chemical technology, say that of Kirk&Othmer.

#could get a mixture of both to plate.   In fact in the case of Zn, I
#don't think you could plate it at all from an aqueous solution, since

Again, hydrogen overvoltage in action causing hydrogen to be evolved
after Zn.  Nails, sheet metal, etc. is being zinc plated
electrolytically and it is done from aqueous solution.

#you would start reducing hydrogen first.  Then to prevent that, you
#could make the solution more basic, reducing the concentration of H+,
#but then you would precipitate out zinc hydroxide.

Unless you add something that complexes the Zn, like cyanide. However,
there are also acid baths for zinc plating.

#Steve Faber

ArNO
    2
From: wa3wbu!john@uunet.UU.NET (John Gayman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Colt Sporter Models and Prices
Date: 28 Aug 92 15:07:46 GMT
Organization: @ WA3WBU, Marysville, PA


In article <9208242255.AA20288@spsgate.sps.mot.com>, rigg@ssdt-tempe.sps.mot.com (Dana Rigg) writes:
# #   Competition Hbar: This is essentually a Match Hbar with the carrying 
# #        handle milled off and a weaver-type base milled in. Comes with a 
# #        ARMS scope base and rings. Made in response to demand for a rifle
# #        which was easier to use with a scope without the need for a 
# #        cheek-piece. 1:9 twist.
# 
# Perhaps some gun stores do sell the Competition HBAR in this fashion but I
# don't think it comes from Colt this way.  The handle is detachable with a
# weaver base milled underneath.  It doesn't come with the scope or rings (at
# least mine didn't).  The detachable handle allows you to switch quickly
# between iron sights and a scope.  Because the handle comes off, the scope
# is not mounted high but at a more comfortable level.  You can also use weaver
# mounts!
# 

   The key here is that there are TWO models of the Competition HBAR. Colt
originally made 2000 of them in the Colt Custom Shop. These came with an
ARMS base and scope rings, no carrying handle. When it appeared that the
rifles were well received, they moved them into normal production. The
standard production rifles are the ones that come with the detachable 
carrying handle. So if your serial number is 2000 or above, you have one
of the standard production models. The ARMS base gives you a bit more room
for a scope with a larger objective. The base mounts to the receiver with
quick disconnect clamps and then the scope mounts to the base. It makes for
a very close tolerance fit. I can remove the scope and remount it with 
absolutely no change in bullet placement at 100 yds. 

   Actually the whole concept is slightly bogus, as was discussed on this
group when the Comp HBAR came out. The front sight interferes with the 
scope. You might not see it at first but it's there. I wasn't a true
beleiver until shooting on a sunny day one day I kept seeing this glare
coming from somewhere. Low and behold, it was being reflected into the 
scope from the sloping rear portion of the front sight. I've since had
it milled off and am enjoying an obstruction-free scope view. :-)



						John


-- 
John Gayman, WA3WBU 
UUCP: uunet!wa3wbu!john
Packet: WA3WBU @ WB3EAH
From: psilva@agora.rain.com (Paul Silva)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Shooting Ranges (Portland/Beaverton)
Date: 4 Sep 92 02:33:21 GMT
Organization: Open Communications Forum


Hi,

  Just wondering if anyone in the Portland/Beaverton area could recommend 
  a good shooting range to use.  Do any local ranges have 200 yard benches?

  Thanks,

  Paul Silva
  psilva@agora.rain.com
From: xabaea@levels.unisa.edu.au
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Weapon naming competition (FOR REAL!)
Date: 1 Sep 92 13:16:37 GMT
Organization: University of South Australia

Hi there...


British Aerospace Australia has just produced a markedly superior FLIR (forward
looking Infra-Red) system for helicopters operating in a tropical environment.
You know, those bulbous things under the nose of choppers which targeted
the laser-guided bombs which obliterated Iraqi tanks and stuff.

The only trouble is, we can't think of a catchy product
name for it, suggested names are things like "night-scanner", "view finder"
and that sort of thing.

So if youd like a small piece of immortality, in the knowlegde that you contrib-
uted to naming this product, and can think of a catchy name that implies:

1) the fact that it operates on the principle of infra-red (heat) radiation
   and is usually used at night
2) its a passive device, so the name should suggest stealth
3) Designed to work best in a tropical atmosphere.
4) Is of high performance

You can use REPLY or preferably, mail to me at

grn@baea.com.au

"Competition" closes on September 8. I'll let you know is your name is
successful.
From: se08+@andrew.cmu.edu (Seth Adam Eliot)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Advice for a first time buyer
Date: 3 Sep 92 22:02:44 GMT

I've searched previous posts, and have gleaned some info, but I'd
like to solicit info and opinions regarding my pending purchase of a
handgun for myself, and one for my girlfriend.  I've had little/no
experince with this, so type slowly :-) and explain in detail.

ME: I'd like to buy a gun because I believe that handling and
shooting firearms is a skill I should have (and I'd like to aquire
one before they're made completely illegal).  I plan to practice at
the range and make a hobby out of it, but self-defense is not
dismissable as a motivation for buying this handgun.

I've done some reading, and I believe that a .38 caliber would suit
me as being a compromise between power and handibility by a novice.
I like machines and the such, and therefore would like a gun that I
can take apart and re-assemble -- a gun that I could get to know well.

My tentative conclusion is a .38 Special.  probably a swing-cylinder
revolver. 

Any comments on the validity of this, and any recommenations of
particular makes would be appreciated.

HER:  She's looking for the security provided by a good self-defense
gun.  Although reading some of the material I've found for her has
sparked an enthusiasm beyond defense.  She however has very little
interest in the inner-workings of things.

.38 caliber seems appropriate here too.  But for her, the ease of a
point and shoot semi-automatic might be more approprate.

Again, comments on the gun type and specific makes of that type are requested.

-Seth

__________________________________________________________________________
"We... have no use for adventures.  Nasty disturbing uncomfortable
things!  Make you late for dinner!"  -- B. Baggins 

Seth Eliot,            Dept of Material Science and Engineering
                       Carnegie Mellon Univerity,   Pittsburgh, PA
ARPA    :eliot+@cmu.edu            --------------------------------------
   or    se08+@andrew.cmu.edu
Bitnet:  se08%andrew@cmccvb        
---------------------------------
From: dionj@netcom.com (Dion Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Remington 11-87 orange flash upon extraction
Date: 3 Sep 92 14:08:47 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

My Remington 11-87 shotgun often (especially when not freshly cleaned)
throws a disconcerting amount of orange fire out the ejection
port when I'm shooting.  No malfunction of any kind, just seems
like a lot of powder is still burning in there after the
load has left and the bolt has been kicked back.

Some friends have said this is normal.  If so, I can get used
to it.  Happens with several different kinds of factory shells.

On the other hand, maybe I should have a stronger bolt assembly
spring (the one in the stock that loads the bolt)?  Or could the
gas operation mechanism be operating the bolt too soon?
-Dionj@netcom.com
-- 
Dion L. Johnson  --  dionj@netcom.com
The material above is my personal opinion, and has no official sanction
from The Santa Cruz Operation, Inc.
From: bressler@iftccu.boeing.com (Rick Bressler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Concealed carry...
Date: 31 Aug 92 22:01:51 GMT
Organization: Boeing Commercial Airplane Group


#What is the best type of holster to use?  Where is the best place to carry
#(side, front, back, shoulder)?  Any specific models that are particularly
#outstanding?

Probably flame time again, but here goes.  All the professionals I've
talked to or read about recommend strong side waist level holster.  This
will generally give you the best speed on a draw and depending no your
normal mode of dress will often be very concealable.  Anybody who
seriously carries a gun full time will probably attest that you do have
to make compromises.  It isn't nearly as glamorous as Hollywood
portrays.  In fact, it's often a pain in the butt.  (surprise)

Rick.
From: hes@unity.ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Ballistics at high altitude
Date: 23 Aug 92 20:37:50 GMT
Organization: NCSU Computing Center


  In the Shooting Bench by Bob Milek column in the Sept. 1992
issue of Guns & Ammo this question is discussed, and a few
examples are given for the .25-06 and the .30-06 for altitudes
of 5,200 and 9,500.

  The short version of the lesson is "At reasonable hunting ranges of
300 to 350 yards, the difference the altitude makes is not worth
considering."

  The bullet retains velocity better at higher altitude, and so
shows less drop.  At longer ranges (e.g.400 - 500 yards) the
difference gets large enough to be of concern ( 4" for the .25-06 and
6 1/2 " for the .30-06 at 500 yards.)

--henry schaffer  n c state univ
From: hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Black Talon Bullets
Date: 3 Sep 92 22:02:41 GMT
Organization: The Cat Factory

In article <1992Sep2.194222.23828@icd.ab.com> kdw@icd.ab.com (Kenneth D. Whitehead) writes:

}Well, it sounds like the Black Talons should work, but...
}
}What happens when you dust a bad guy and the prosecutor finds out about this
}b-a-a-a-d ammo you've been using?  Wouldn't you find yourself in the same
}potential fix as the guy who used special handloads?

My thoughts, too.  It's one reason my guns are a GP100 and a P226 instead
of a "Combat Master" or species of snake. (Not the main reason, but a
reason).

The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@polymath.tti.com)
Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp                   Turn the rascals out!
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483     No incumbents in '92!
Santa Monica, CA  90405
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Advice for a first time buyer
Date: 4 Sep 92 12:57:08 GMT
Organization: Western Washington University

se08+@andrew.cmu.edu (Seth Adam Eliot) writes:

You have it backwards, revolvers are simpler than pistols,
not the other way around.  


Revolvers to look at, considering your specs:

Ruger GP100	.357/.38	4" (3")  barrel, 40 oz 	6 shot *
Ruger SP101	.357/.38	2" (3")  barrel, 25 oz 	5 shot

S&W 65		.357/.38	3" (4")  barrel, 31 oz 	6 shot
S&W 19/66	.357/.38	2.5" (4")	 30 oz	6 shot * 
S&W 64		.38		2" (4")  barrel, 28 oz	6 shot  
S&W small frames.38		2"		 20 oz  5 shot
		.38		2"		 14 oz  5 shot **
i.e.	Centenial	(concealed hammer)
	Chief's Special (standard), etc.
Taurus 85/85CH	.38		2" 		 21 oz  5 shot
Charter Arms	.38		2"		 16 oz  5 shot **

The Charters are ugly and cheap, but they work ok.  The Taurus ones come
with bigger, more comfortable grips than the S&W tiny .38s.  Rugers
and S&Ws are fine with any kind of heavy use with factory ammo.

* adjustable sights
** aluminum frames, less durable than steel.  can be a pain to shoot, imo.

Jim Del Vecchio
From: cramer@optilink.com (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Travelling help
Date: 26 Aug 92 02:14:48 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA


In article <lairdb.714255004@crash>, lairdb@crash.cts.com writes:
# In <1992Aug19.022135.16461@ttinews.tti.com> hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath) writes:
# [wrt Kalifornia]
# #                                                               Remember
# #that loaded magazine == loaded gun (in fact, live ammunition touching any
# #part of a gun, including the magazine, is legally the same as a loaded
# #gun).
# 
# Incidenatlly, this has come up before.  I got curious, and talked 
# (informally) to several people about it, all of whom "had never heard
# such a ridiculous interpretation" (roughly the words of a local ADA.)
# He pointed out what I had thought, that the wording of the PC section
# in question is most sensibly read to say that if the magazine is out
# of the firearm, then it's not loaded.
# 
# Not to say that a rabid, conviction-hungry prosecutor couldn't read it
# any way he wanted to, but does anyone have a cite?
# 
# Laird P. Broadfield     lairdb@crash.cts.com    ...{ucsd, nosc}!crash!lairdb

This is a new form of Kalifornia madness.  I don't know if anyone has
been convicted or not, but the last time my wife went shooting at the
indoor range in Cotati, CA, the rangemaster warned her that Cotati
Police had taken to sitting outside the range, and stopping people
coming out of, or into the range, and inspecting their handguns.
They were using the "ridiculous interpretation" of the Kalifornia
law to confiscate guns from people who had a loaded magazine in 
the same bag as a gun.  No effect for my wife, she has a permit
to carry, but it's pretty amazing to think that the Cotati PD has
enough time and energy to engage in this sort of madness.



-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
Alcohol prohibition didn't work; drug prohibition doesn't work; gun
prohibition won't work.
From: burge@qdeck.com (Bill Burge)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: getting started in reloading
Date: 26 Aug 92 02:14:34 GMT
Organization: Quarterdeck Office Systems, Santa Monica CA

In article <9208241330.AA10945@news.cis.ohio-state.edu> rane+@pulsar.fac.cs.cmu.edu writes:
#Hello all.  I am rather new to shootin' and was looking for  
#recommendations on what I need to get into reloading.  I'll
#be reloading for 9mm, .45ACP and .308 initially.  The .45 and 
#9 reloads will for plinkin' and just poppin' off at the range.
#The .308's on the other hand will be for precision shooting.
#I need something that can crank out a good number of 9's and .45's
#in a short amount of time (called a progressive press?). 
#

For the progressive I love my Dillon 550.  THe 650 is cool but more
expensive.  The SqDeal is cheaper but is cheaper.  My belief is that
most shooters will outgrow the SqDeal too soon.  As for the .308, you
need to provide more info on the "precision" of the shooting.  If you:

trim to length
aneal
neck turn
primer pocket ream
flash hole unify
sort by weight
sort by lot
follow your powder, primer, bullet lot#s
etc.

You can go with a series of channels.  If you want to carefully load a few
308's and will trim to length and aneal you can buy most decent reloading
tools and not tell much difference.  THe better are from Redding.  For the
obsessive, mentioned above, contact Sinclair or Neil Jones.

Jones - (814)763-2769
Sinclair - (717)752-3655 

"The Ultimate in Rifle Accurracy" has a good description of the reloading
technique.

Bill	burge@qdeck.com
From: C_PUFFER@unhh.unh.edu (Charles   Puffer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: How to design a gun?
Date: 28 Aug 92 20:34:38 GMT
Organization: University of New Hampshire

Greetings;
	I would like to find a book that tells how to design a gun. most of my
questions are things like. How wo you work ou the correct masses and spring 
loads for blowback on an automatic? How can you make rounds in the magasin or
clip move the way you would want?

	I could sit down and use my old phy401 book and a balistics chart but
why reinvent the wheel.

Thanks in advance.

[_-_-_-_-_]            
 |       |______________     Charles Puffer
 |      /             /  \   C_PUFFER@UNHH.UNH.EDU
 |    /_____________/      \
 |    |            |  |^|  |        Lord Duncan Forbes
 |    |            |  | |  |         Barony of Stonemarche
From: burge@qdeck.com (Bill Burge)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: IHMSA (Silhouette shooting) address wanted!
Date: 3 Sep 92 22:03:13 GMT
Organization: Quarterdeck Office Systems, Santa Monica CA

In article <9208311653.AA03017@elroy.Jpl.Nasa.Gov> minh@inst-sun1.jpl.nasa.gov (Minh Lang) writes:
#Hi, I'm looking for the address of IHMSA (International Metallic
#Silhouette Association)
#and also the membership due. I would appreciate any info. Thanks.
#BTW, are there any silhouette shooters here? 
#

IHMSA
P.O.Box 5038
Meriden,  CT
06450

(203)237-5244		$20

Bill	burge@qdeck.com
From: th2_oate@csd.brispoly.ac.uk (Tom Oates)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Stupid shooter tricks
Date: 26 Aug 92 13:30:30 GMT
Organization: Bristol Polytechnic, England

In article <11880@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.com (Clayton Cramer) writes:

#You left out Sten idiosyncrasy #3: a friend served with the British
#Army occupation forces in Germany just after WW2 -- if you dropped a
#Sten on the ground, butt first, just right, it would occasionally
#start firing, and continue until empty.  He only managed to do it
#once, but that was enough.

I can attest to this. The Mk2 Sten was the worst for doing it. The
others (Mks 3 and 5) were safer - but not by much. In terms of value 
for money the Sten was and is the finest machine gun in the world. Why? 
Because if you could buy one today at cost price, it would cost not much 
more than twenty-five dollars. It's all the middle-men and paper work that 
boost the price.

You left out Sten idiosyncrasy #4. Unlike other machine guns which
required lubrication, the Sten needed none and continued to 
fire quite happily, even when bone dry. If you ever take a Sten to
pieces you'll be impressed/appalled by the awesome simplicity of the 
design. It's the kind of thing you could make in your garage...

-- 
*************************************************************************
*  Tom Oates  (Bristol Poly, England)    *   DISCLAIMER:-               *
*  JANET: th2_oate@csd.brispoly.ac.uk    *   I speak only for myself.   *
*************************************************************************
From: jamison@hobbes.Corp.Sun.COM (& Gray)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .40 s&w questions
Date: 28 Aug 92 01:21:58 GMT
Organization: Fun Microsystems, Inc.

In article <9208261846.AA29223@Eng.Sun.COM> jamison@hobbes.Corp.Sun.COM (& Gray) writes:
#   What Jim was referring to was a potential problem with the
#   decocking Taurus PT-92's.  The safety lever has three positions:
#   up for safe, straight for fire (like older 92's), and a third
#   lower position that decocks.  On mine at least, the lever does
#   NOT spring back to "fire" after decocking, but rather stays
#   in the lower position, which is essentially a second safety
#   position. [...]

One thing I didn't mention above is a discovery I made while
investigating this behavior in my PT-99: if the pistol has been
decocked without the decocker (i.e. by pulling the trigger and
letting the hammer down), the safety lever WILL NOT go down
past the fire position into the decocker position, so there's
no risk of doing so under stress.  Yes, doing this defeats 
the purpose of the decocker, but if you carry with hammer
down & safety on, it could give you an extra margin of safety
when the s__t hits the fan -- balanced against the reduced
safety of letting the hammer down manually. 

			-- Jamie




--
Jamie Gray, jamison@Eng.sun.COM        "I am the milkman of human kindness;
Sun Microsystems, Mountain View, CA     I will leave you an extra pint"
From: bercov@bevsun.bev.lbl.gov (John Bercovitz)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: What's the best pocket-sized gun?
Date: 25 Aug 92 21:20:24 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory, California

In article <9208242256.AA19436@network.ucsd.edu> mbh@sdphu1.ucsd.edu 
(Matt Harrington) writes:

#At the range the other day, a man showed me a pistol which he keeps in
#his back pocket in a leather holster reminiscent of a wallet.  I think
#that he said it was a Bauer (?) .25  I can't find these guns in my
#Shooter's Bible '93, so they must have gone out of business a while ago.

Pretty sure those Galco wallet holsters were made illegal in the People's
Republic of California about 10 years ago.  It makes the gun into the
equivalent of a pen gun or a cane gun in this state, at least that's what
a gun dealer told me.  So check it out carefully before you attempt to
buy one.

John Bercovitz     (JHBercovitz@lbl.gov)
From: erudnick@pica.army.mil (FSAC-SID)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 10mm information needed
Date: 31 Aug 92 17:10:05 GMT


Doug Gwyn writes:
#9mm is definitely not as effective a manstopper as the larger
#calibers.

Standards? References?


Ed Rudnicki     erudnick@pica.army.mil     All disclaimers apply
Protect the Second Amendment - boycott Ruger products
"That's not true," Bill hissed to his lawyer. "The facts are-"
"Don't worry about facts, Bill, no one else here does. Facts can't
alter this case."       -"Bill the Galactic Hero" Harry Harrison
From: fleck@cs.itc.hp.com (Dave Fleck)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Washington state handgun hunting
Date: 31 Aug 92 22:02:04 GMT


    "HANDGUNS - For deer, bear, or cougar hunting, centerfire handguns
    approved for hunting purposes must be a minimum of .24 caliber, have
    a minimum barrel length of four (4) inches, usa a mushrooming or
    expanding-type bullet, and generate a minimum of 500 foot pounds of
    energy at 100 yards. "


This is almost identical to the Colorado regs this year for those who
are interested.  But I believe that all big game are covered for this.
They do not specifically say that a .357 is not allowed, but at least
one gun shop I asked advised not using one.  Good thing I have a .44

I can post the exact reg if someone wants it.

Dave
From: mbh@sdphu3.ucsd.edu (Matt Harrington)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Before I buy, what is a good SKS price?
Date: 28 Aug 92 01:21:45 GMT
Organization: Physics Department, UCSD


I'd like to pick up one of these SKS 7.62x39 rifles.  One store which I
called has new ones for $129.  I've heard that they can be had for as
little as $100 at gun shows.  However, there aren't any shows in my area
for a while (that I know of).  Anyway, before I plunk down my cash, is the
$129 price a good deal?  What does the SKS run for in other cities?

Also, is there anything about this rifle which I should look for?  I mean,
do they have a quality reputation or are they pretty cheap?

Thanks in advance for the help!

					Regards,

					Matt Harrington