HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: atkinson@itd.nrl.navy.mil (Randall Atkinson)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: comp.os.386bsd
Date: 7 Oct 92 16:56:07 GMT
Organization: Naval Research Laboratory, DC

In article <1992Oct7.144806.4537@terminator.cc.umich.edu> pauls@css.itd.umich.edu (Paul Southworth) writes:
>In article <1992Oct7.041359.554@fcom.cc.utah.edu> terry@cs.weber.edu (A Wizard of Earth C) writes:

>And what does this have to do with serving the community of users who
>are working with a specific package, 386bsd 0.1, and want specific help
>on OS-specific questions?  The "fuzziness" of the issue is belied by the
>traffic we have on issues specific to 386bsd (and nothing else).  

  Bullshit.  The discussion is generic to all forms of BSD on the
intel IBM PC-like hardware and has NOTHING to do with whether it is
BSDJ (aka 386bsd) or BSDI or the stuff directly from UC Berkeley.
There are no meaningful differences between BSDJ and BSDI other than
price and availability of commercial support and Jolitz-politics.


Newsgroups: news.groups,chile.grupos
From: chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg)
Subject: Re: Por que ingles?  [Why English?]
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 13:09:12 GMT
Organization: TC Telemanagement, Clearwater, FL

According to smiranda@dcc.uchile.cl (Sergio Miranda M.):
>Por que discutimos de una jerarquia de espanol en ingles???
>[Why do we discuss a Spanish hierarchy in English???]

Porque' la creacio'n de la jeraquia dependera' en administradores en
muchos pai'zes, y el idioma mas universal es el ingles.  [Because the
creation of a hierarchy depends on administrators in many countries,
and the most "universal" language is English.]
-- 
Chip Salzenberg at Teltronics/TCT  <chip@tct.com>, <73717.366@compuserve.com>
   "I am truly as big a genius as all other Rush fans." -- Bruce Bufalini
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: dave@frackit.UUCP (Dave Ratcliffe)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: Create a killfile? AAAAAAAARGH!
Date: 15 Oct 92 21:44:32 GMT
Article-I.D.: frackit.1693
Organization: Data Factory Services, Harrisburg, Pa.


 In article <rawdon.718939267@cs.wisc.edu>, rawdon@colby.cs.wisc.edu (Michael Rawdon) writes:
 > In <N3LDsB4w164w@jwt.UUCP> bbs-jwelch@jwt.UUCP (Johnathon Welch) writes:
 > >> So please, those of you who have a kneejerk reaction to an otherwise worthy
 > >> newsgroup or alt. group to say "You slobs, USE A KILLFILE," try remembering
 > >> that not everyone CAN.
 > 
 > >Thanks Joel, yes people, some of us CANT use a killfile..  Some of us 
 > >DONT go to college and have access to a UNIX system!
 > 
 > Ahhh, logic.  "If we don't have 'em, then it's our moral duty to drag those
 > that do back to the dark ages."

Ahhh, logic. "If they don't have 'em they are less than human and
their opinions are unworthy of consideration"

No one is trying to drag you or anyone else back into the dark ages.
Those of us out here without killfiles just want those of you WITH them
to remember that we are out here. If you've got 'em, fine. Use them in
good health. Looking at those of us without them as if we were a lower
form of life and somehow unworthy detracts from YOUR respectability.
Using them as a club to beat others with simply makes matters worse. 

Now, can we put this particular topic away for a few months? I have no
doubt it'll come up again soon enough :)


-- 
 ...uunet!wa3wbu!frackit!dave -or-                       |  Dave Ratcliffe  |
 frackit!dave@uunet.UU.NET -or- dave@frackit.uucp -or-   |  Sys. <*> Admin. |
 vogon1!compnect!frackit!dave@psuvax1.psu.edu            | Harrisburg,  Pa. |
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: paul@xcluud.sccsi.com (Paul Hutmacher)
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.autos.offroad
Organization: Greater Montrose UFO Appreciation Society & Data Haven
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 01:45:16 GMT

In article <BvpwHo.Gzr@uunet.uu.net> gregc@jacobi.WPI.EDU (Greg "Your Friendly Neighborhood Poet" Charland) writes:
>     It seems to me that an alt.4wd group would be a good start.
>     Anyone with anything to say about this is asked to post an opinion on 
>news.groups.  I more than welcome any suggestion.  Thank you for your
>attention.

I'm not sure if the offroad mailing list doesn't already cover this in
some fashion.  We presently don't have more than five messages a day
on it and I think that's just because it's been re-started and the
novelty is fresh.

I prefer the mailing list.

-- 
Paul Hutmacher
paul@xcluud.sccsi.com
{lobster,nuchat}!xcluud!paul
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: huggins@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Jim Huggins)
Subject: Re: RFD: comp.archives.msdos.announce moderated and comp.archives.msdos.d
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor, MI
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 03:32:38 GMT

In article <1992Oct10.182715.25962@netcom.com> fuzzy@netcom.com (Fuzzy Fox) writes:
|The proposed c.a.m.d newsgroup is not moderated.  How do you figure that
|people will not post their incessant discussions?  I am quite convinced
|that if created, c.a.m.d will go the exact same path as c.b.i.p.d and
|c.b.i.p.a.

Which perhaps leads to a suggestion ... if c.a.m.a is meant to be 
the moderated version of what c.b.i.p.a was supposed to be, how 'bout
setting follow-ups in c.a.m.a to c.b.i.p.a?  

That might solve the problem of what to do about c.b.i.p.a, although
it doesn't address the off-topic discussions there and the non-
similarities of the names.  Comments?

-- 
Jim Huggins, Univ. of Michigan                          huggins@eecs.umich.edu
"You cannot pray to a personal computer no matter how user-friendly it is."
                                                          -- W. Bingham Hunter
From: support2@igc.apc.org (IGC User Support)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: PeaceNet/The Well
Date: 14 Oct 92 02:44:00 GMT
Nf-ID: #R:i3HisB1w165w@surfcty.com:-1941305212:cdp:1431100008:000:255
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!support2    Oct 13 19:44:00 1992


PeaceNet and the WELL are online services, like CompuServe or
Prodigy, except that they are nonprofit.  For more information
on PeaceNet and its sister networks, EcoNet, ConflictNet and
HomeoNet, write to support@igc.apc.org

Tom Gray
IGC Support
-------
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: scs@iti.org (Steve Simmons)
Subject: Re: RFD: soc.religion.islam.ahmadiyya moderated
Organization: Industrial Technology Institute
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 13:48:24 GMT

rana@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (Nabeel Ahmad Rana) writes:

>	The group will be MODERATED because of its controversial nature.
>The moderators have been decided through personal e-mail contacts within the
>Ahmadiyya Muslim Netters community. The community has generally agreed to 
>have the following moderators to start the newsgroup:

>Moderator:	Nabeel A. Rana  (rana@rintintin.colorado.edu)
>Co-Moderator:	Dr. Tahir Ijaz (ijaz@ccu.umanitoba.ca)

While I am not in principle opposed to moderated groups of this type,
I would like to see a clear statement from the moderators and in the
charter that moderation will not be used to quash dissenting opinion.
No related topic should be off-limits, and the moderation should be
used to avoid flamage, not supress dissent or disagreements.
-- 
scs:  Currently tied for 2536th on the Zwicky list with `zwicky'.  The
      list was compiled by Elizabeth Zwicky (not Fritz, not Arnold),
      zwicky@erg.sri.com.
Xref: sparky news.groups:18841 rec.music.bluenote:7719
From: Jonathan Egre' <jonathan@mantis.co.uk>
Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.music.bluenote
Subject: Re: r.m.bluenote --> r.m.jazz + r.m.blues (was: rec.music.jazz)
Date: Wed, 07 Oct 92 17:26:15 BST
Distribution: world
Organization: Mantis Consultants, Cambridge. UK.

mingus@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Damballah Wedo) writes:

> My belief that there is narrowmindedness going on here is based on the
> number of arguments in favor of a split that are variations on "I don't
> want to have to wade through articles I'm not interested in." I read
> that sentence as "My tastes are sealed in concrete, and I don't want
> anything new to enter into my consciousness." Looks like narrowmindeness
> to me.

The narrow-minded statement was written by YOU, not them.

> If this is not why you have taken the lead int he splitting efforts,
> by all means, explain the real reason. Because I do wish to understand
> why you are expending so much energy on a non-problem.

The real reason has been explained over and over again.  I'll try to 
summarize as well as I can:

(1) Many people are only interested in EITHER jazz OR blues, but not both.

    This is apparently an alien concept to many people, especially some
    jazz enthusiasts, who apparently believe that it is not humanly possible
    to hear jazz and still prefer other styles of music.

(2) These people OBJECT to being told that they should read postings about
    BOTH blues and jazz "because it's good for you".

(3) Many people find it very easy to distinguish between blues and jazz in
    practice.  The number of artists, and the number of discussions in 
    rec.music.bluenote, which cannot be classified as EITHER blues OR
    jazz is perceived by many people to be small.

(4) Some people are finding it increasingly difficult to pick out the 
    articles that they want to read in rec.music.bluenote.  This is 
    especially true for the blues-only enthusiasts, who have to hunt for 
    blues articles in a newsgroup which mostly contains jazz articles.

Therefore, these people would like to see separate blues and jazz newsgroups.
I really cannot see why so many people cannot even UNDERSTAND why some people
find separate blues and jazz newsgroups desirable.  

Whether or not a separation SHOULD occur depends mainly on exactly how many
people would like to see separate newsgroups for blues and jazz.

In other words, I think a CFV would be a good idea.

-- Jonathan Egre' = jonathan@mantis.co.uk = jonathan_e@cix.compulink.co.uk --
========= Serious but friendly request for the benefit of everyone: =========
When posting an item of local interest to a global newsgroup, please use 
"Distribution:" so that people on the other side of the world are not 
inconvenienced.  Consult your manual or local expert for technical details.

Newsgroups: news.groups
From: fuzzy@netcom.com (Fuzzy Fox)
Subject: Re: RFD: comp.binaries.ms-windows moderated
Organization: Foxes 'R' Us - Seven locations to serve you
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 02:54:54 GMT

bruce@ais.com (Bruce C. Wright) writes:

>> I like the idea of a comp.binaries.ms-windows - as long as a good
>> moderator is found.  If one such as the current c.b.i.p. is selected,
>> then the newsgroup traffic will be so small that there will be no need
>> to even create the newsgroup...

>Is this because of the moderator, or because there are relatively few
>submissions in the first place?

My understanding is that the moderator has an overflowing queue full of
submissions, but does not have an adequate staff of testers to make sure
the submissions actually work.  That, and lately he has been plagued by
hardware failures that make it difficult for him to do his job (for
now).

-- 
#ifdef TRUE         | Fuzzy Fox                  fuzzy@netcom.com
#define  TRUE   0   | a.k.a. David DeSimone      an207@cleveland.freenet.edu
#define  FALSE  1   |   "Verily, thou art indeed a fool."   -- Chuckles the
#endif              |         Jester, moments before his untimely death.
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: ckd@eff.org (Christopher Davis)
Subject: Re: Create a killfile? AAAAAAAARGH!
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation Tech Central
	<CKD.92Oct11154816@loiosh.eff.org> <1690@frackit.UUCP>
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 16:47:18 GMT

Dave> == Dave Ratcliffe <dave@frackit.UUCP> 

 Dave> Those who know Bnews are aware that Vnews and readnews are
 Dave> supplied as a part of the package. They are compiled along with
 Dave> the executables for Bnews and utilize variables set for use with
 Dave> inews and other programs in the package. So while Bnews DOES
 Dave> include the transport mechanism it also includes 2 news readers.
 Dave> I may have been lax in specifying this in my posting but I
 Dave> assumed those with knowledge of Bnews would understand what I
 Dave> meant.

And I still say that just means your problem is with the distributed
newsreaders.  If you'd like I'll mail you the source for a current
version of rn; it has killfiles.  It also works just fine under B news,
and it's free.

I don't use /bin/mail just because it came with my sendmail source.

(And no, I never bothered with B news, because we've always run C news.)
--
Christopher K. Davis      |       NET.INSIGHTS INTO ARTISTIC CRITICISM:
<ckd@eff.org>   EFF #14   | ``[Y]ou don't cure bad art by locking it all up
System Administrator, EFF | in one museum, you cure it by throwing tomatoes
+1 617 864 0665  [CKD1]   | at bad artists.'' --Barry Shein <bzs@world.std.com>
From: fau@po.CWRU.Edu (Francis A. Uy)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: 2nd CFV and VOTE ACK: rec.games.abstract
Date: 11 Oct 1992 20:54:04 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: fau@po.CWRU.Edu (Francis A. Uy)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, neilb@scs.leeds.ac.uk (Neil Bowers) says:

>rec.games.abstract.  During the 30 day discussion period there were
>no serious objections to the group, or the proposed name.  I have

Actually, this is a lie.  There were several
 posts objecting to the proposed name during
 the discussion period.  (I think).  As to
 whether they were 'serious' or not is a
 matter of opinion.
-- 
Francis A. Uy			now a Bawlmorean, hon.
Program Director, WUMD		ISO part time job to pay the rent.
From: sergio@Ingres.COM (Sergio L Aponte)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: Cual es la razon?
Date: 9 Oct 92 17:59:25 GMT
Organization: Ingres, an ASK Company, Alameda CA 94501
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5


	Hi. Me again. Seems some didn't like the spanish here!
	My apology if this is improper (Is it a LAW to post here in english?)
	This might be the problem itself...

: 	Me interesa saber cual es la logica que indica que establecer estos
: 	grupos es apropiado...

	I am interested in the logic behind the establishement of this
	newsgroups.
: 
: 	1) Si existe logica para decir que los grupos tienen una razon de
: 	existir, lo mismo se puede decir de panama.*, china.*, etc, etc...

	1) If there is a logic behind their existance, then the same logic
	would apply to "panama.*", "china.*", etc, etc...
: 
: 	2) El USENET esta repartido en temas, no nacinalidades. El que quiere
: 	saber de futboll, puede leer el grupo de futboll y ver articulos de
: 	todo el mundo.

	2) USENET is divided by subject, not nacionalities. If you want to read
	about futboll, can read the futboll group and find articles from 
	around the world.
: 
: 	3) Idioma? Nadie dice que no puedes postear en el idioma que te de la
: 	gana en el grupo que te de la gana...

	3) Language? Nobody says you can't post on whichever language you care
	to in which ever newsgroup you care to...

: 
: 	4) Tambien existe la possibilidad de controlar tu distribuicion, para
: 	que articulos de interest nacinal sean distribuidos en esa nacion
: 	solamente, aunque a mi me encanta ver articulos de todo el mundo.

	4) There is always the posibility of controling distribution, so that
	articles of national interest get distributed within that country
	only, although I enjoy reading articles from around the world.
: 
: 	Mi punto es : my newsrc reporta alrededor de 1900 newsgroups genericos.
: 	Si ahora Chile quiere esos 1900 temas pero en "chile.", depues panama
: 	quiere esos 1900 temas en "panama.", china en "china.", etc... Donde
: 	vamos a llegar?

	My point is : my newsrc reports around 1900 generic newsgroups. If Chile
	now wants those 1900 subjects under "chile.", later Panama wants those
	1900 subject under "panam.", China under "china.", etc... Where will
	we get?
: 
: 	BTW, yo no estoy de acuerdo con los "us." grupos tampoco!
: 
	By-the-way, I don't agree with the "us." groups I've seen show up...

: --
: ===============================================================   _|||_
: Sergio L. Aponte, SMTS @ Ingres, an ASK Company                   <*,*>
: Internet : sergio@coqui.ingres.com                                [`-']  Keko
: UUCP     : {sun,mtxinu,pyramid,pacbell}!ingres!coqui!sergio       _"_"_  Jones
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: kko@fraser.sfu.ca (Samuel Ko)
Subject: Re: RFD: comp.archives.msdos.announce moderated and comp.archives.msdos.d
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 05:47:16 GMT

huggins@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Jim Huggins) writes:

>Which perhaps leads to a suggestion ... if c.a.m.a is meant to be 
>the moderated version of what c.b.i.p.a was supposed to be, how 'bout
>setting follow-ups in c.a.m.a to c.b.i.p.a?  

>That might solve the problem of what to do about c.b.i.p.a, although
>it doesn't address the off-topic discussions there and the non-
>similarities of the names.  Comments?

I think not ... One reason why we have this proposal is to move
announcements/discussions/requests regarding MSDOS (and to a lesser
extent Windows) sharewares/freewares out of the c.b.i.p hierarchy
... as they have nothing to do with the posting of uuencoded binary
files, they shouldn't be covered under the comp.binaries hierarchy.

Another reason for the proposal is to have a moderated group for
noise-free upload announcements by ftp sites moderators ... and a
group dedicated to the discussions/requests of MSDOS sharewares/
freewares/public domain programs. It is true that due to the unmoderated
nature of the discussions/requests group, off-charter postings are unavoidable.
However, c.a.m.d will be read by the moderators of c.a.m.a and gentle
guidance will be sent to people posting off-charter articles. Also 
the majority of off-charter posts in the current c.b.i.p.a and
c.b.i.p.d are requests for archive files. As such requests are within
the charter of the proposed c.a.m.d, mis-postings are expected to be
low.

As to the fate of c.b.i.p.archive which is now almost an empty set due
to the leaving of major contributors and unsubscription of many of its 
ex-readers, it will be dealt with after this creation of the
comp.archives.msdos newsgroups. In any case, the c.b.i.p.a won't be
used for upload annoucements / discussions due to its highly negative
image.

S a m u e l ... coordinating the creation of comp.archives.msdos.* ...
From: rpaw@ocf.berkeley.edu (Richard Tse-Woon Paw)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: rec.games.mecha!
Date: 15 Oct 1992 07:30:06 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
NNTP-Posting-Host: hailstorm.berkeley.edu

I've heard that there is a proposal for a group called rec.games.mecha!
and I'd like to cast my votye for it.
-- 
Richard Tse-Woon Paw            Within each man is the most powerful weapon
rpaw@ocf.berkeley.edu                  on Earth.  ---  The human mind
rpaw@ucsee.berkeley.edu          
Choy Lay Fut Kung Fu
From: aberigan@nde.unl.edu (A. Berigan)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: use a KILLFILE
Date: 16 Oct 1992 04:32:50 GMT
Organization: Ord High School, Ord, NE
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: nde.unl.edu

I do.  Indeed, I'm about to put the line:

news.groups:!s:kill

In my nn killfile.

-- 
     __o          (10/3)  1/      (11/3)
  __p\<,_       WF      + /(10-WF)
__(")/ (`)__     
~~~~~~~~~~~~ aberigan@nde.unl.edu (Greg Berigan)
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg)
Subject: Re: use a KILLFILE
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 21:11:54 GMT
Organization: TC Telemanagement, Clearwater, FL

According to jfurr@vtssi.vt.edu (Joel Furr):
>If the ultimate answer to off-topic invaders in your newsgroup is "use a
>killfile" then for Christ's sake, what do we have newsgroup charters for?

Please learn to distinguish between "encouragement" and "coercion."
Usenet has lots of the former and almost none of the latter.
Newsgroup charters encourage correct article placement.  However,
nothing coerces such placement.  Therefore, KILL files are a highly
recommended tool of survival on Usenet.

Clear yet?
-- 
Chip Salzenberg at Teltronics/TCT  <chip@tct.com>, <73717.366@compuserve.com>
    "My favorite phenomenon is when someone mails me or posts to this
     group, either calling me a newbie or telling me that my postings
     are not relevant to alt.non.sequitur."           -- Matt Welsh
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: fred_s@earwax.pei.com (Fred Scott)
Subject: Re: not everybody uses UNIX to read news
Organization: Protocol Engines Incorporated
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 20:22:09 GMT

In article <!tgp7rg@lynx.unm.edu> lazlo@triton.unm.edu (Lazlo Nibble) writes:
>chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg) writes:
>
>> "Mandatory" means "required", and indeed, KILL files are not required. 
>> However, they are _very_ _strongly_ _recommended_.  And if you don't use
>> KILL files, any resulting problems are _yours_.  Don't bother us about
>> them, okay? 
>
>Sigh.  You'd better clarify this in the original document, Chip.  Some
>people are destined to Just Not Get It Unless It's Written In Stone.

Sigh.  I think most of the rest of the net is trying to point out: whether or
not it is indeed bad manners to assume someone read news on a UNIX box is
totally irrelevant to the original complaint.  It is not bad manners to expect
people to use kill files or to have to live with threads they don't happen to
care about reading.  The point is that the original complaint was not valid.

Fred
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: karish@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Chuck Karish)
Subject: Re: r.m.bluenote --> r.m.jazz + r.m.blues (was: rec.music.jazz)
Organization: Mindcraft, Inc.
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 20:14:55 GMT

In article <RSHAPIRO.92Oct15110428@kariba.bbn.com> rshapiro@bbn.com
(Richard Shapiro) writes:
[Chuck Karish wrote:]
>>Usenet rules for conducting votes require that a concrete proposal be
>>put on the table and discussed in news.groups before a vote may be
>>taken.  So far, there has not been such a proposal
>
>Huh? The proposal is to convert rec.music.bluenote, a jazz&blues
>newsgroup, into rec.music.jazz and rec.music.blues. Whether or not you
>agree with proposal, you can hardly say it isn't concrete.

The guidelines say that the purpose of the discussion
period is to give the proponents the opportunity to
agree on a name and a charter for each new group.
I have yet to see a concise statement of purpose and
proposed scope for either of the new groups.  Don't
tell me that "everybody knows" what these should be;
we're discussing this here in news.groups to see
whether there really is enough consensus on specific
proposals to make a vote worthwhile.

If many voters are surprised and upset by the contents
of the proposed charters when they're finally revealed
in the CFV, the proponents might be disappointed when
the votes are counted.

>The standard newsgroup creation process has been followed perfectly.

I suggest that Richard Shapiro read the guidelines.
--

    Chuck Karish          karish@mindcraft.com
    (415) 323-9000 x117   karish@pangea.stanford.edu
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: tale@ten.uu.net (David C Lawrence)
Subject: Re: RFD: comp.archives.msdos.announce moderated and comp.archives.msdos.d
	<1992Oct9.170656.12594@rei.com> <BvwFty.EHx@NCoast.ORG>
Organization: UUNET Technologies, Inc.
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 13:16:55 GMT

In article <BvwFty.EHx@NCoast.ORG> brown@NCoast.ORG (Stan Brown) writes:
> I welcome c.a.m.a on its own merits, because the moderators would be the
> folks who originate ths useful announcements on cbip.archives now.
> c.a.m.a.d is needed, because where else do we report bugs?

Newsgroups: comp.os.msdos.apps,comp.bugs.misc

comp.sources.bugs would also be appropriate for a lot of it.

Those groups already exist and are very low volume.