HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mailrus!gatech!mit-eddie!liverpool.media.mit.edu!testarne@uunet.UU.NET (Th)
Newsgroups: sci.virtual-worlds
Subject: Re: TECH: Synchronized communications between various machines
Date: 14 Apr 92 01:46:14 GMT
Organization: MIT Media Laboratory
Originator: hlab@milton.u.washington.edu


        When you're dealing with something as low bandwidth as an RS-232 line
you may want to consider all sorts of cheats.  A lot depends on what your data
is going to look like.

(1) For many of the methods already suggested, you may want to degrade the
    graphics on the lower end machines.  For instance, use lower resolution.
    If the user wants better, let him buy a better system.

(2) If your data is relatively sparse (low bits per graphics object, not 
    saturating your bandwidth), you may just want to flood information to the
    machines as fast as possible.  If a machine gets behind, it throws away
    all except the most recent set of states that have come across.

(3) If you have a known max graphics delay, you can just send updates at that
    speed. While the lag may seem bad at first, you can compensate by using
    predictive filters (yeah, I know, get off my soapbox) to send your best gues
s
    at what the world will look like in 1/nth of a second in the future.  We use
    Kalman filters for our polhemi, but for many applications, simple prediction
 
    based on velocity or velocity and acceleration without the noise reduction
    could be OK.  These extra processes tend to take little process time.

(4) In general I recommend making things asynchronous, but for some applications
    this may be not feasible (big lags).  However, it allows the people willing
    to sink money into good machines to have better quality, which is a good
    technology pusher.

(5) Split things up into several processes.  Many multi-tasking operating
    systems do the right thing (or a first approximation to it) so that this
    works much better than you would think.  You have to watch tight loops
    though.  BTW, is it true POSIX still does not have select()?

                                                        Thad
From: cyclone@netcom.com (Bill Sheppard)
Newsgroups: sci.virtual-worlds
Subject: Re: TECH: VR Studio Demo?
Date: 6 Apr 92 19:03:55 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Apr7.201556.17352
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
Originator: hlab@milton.u.washington.edu


So has anyone solved the adventure?  I can only find 2 gold bars, and can't
make sense of the pyramids/cubes on top of the store.

-- 
**************************** cyclone@netcom.com  ******************************
*                          Witty Signature Pending                            *
*                      Applications Now Being Accepted...                     *
*******************************************************************************
Newsgroups: sci.virtual-worlds
From: cyberoid@u.washington.edu (Bob Jacobson)
Subject: ADMIN: The Moderator Returns from Europe:  Report to Follow
Originator: hlab@milton.u.washington.edu
Organization: WORLDESIGN
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 06:35:16 GMT



Pip pip and Buenos Dios, my time abroad has regretfully drawn to an end and
I have returned home to beautiful Seattle...wiser by far and appreciative
of all the kindnesses shown to me by my hosts in Ireland, England, Italy,
and Spain.

Lots to report of general interest and one truly significant breakthrough
product, a software package for distributing world-building assignments
among various platforms, from a workstation on down to a PC (and it even
runs worlds on a dumb terminal!).  More on this in my trip report, to
follow shortly.

Thanks to co-moderator Mark DeLoura [*bow*] for another fine demonstration of 
his intellectual and diplomatic skills as he piloted the newsgroup in my
absence.  Thanks also to list-maintainer Greg Newby and the colleagues
at The WELL, Compuserve, and GEnie for keeping things active in those 
quarters.

Nice to be back among you!

Bob Jacobson
Moderator

PS So what's the new Big Topic?

[From Mark DeLoura:  Well, what can you tell us about this Sega game
        system, Bob?  :)  ]
From: skydiver@dispates.u.washington.edu (People have real lives?)
Newsgroups: sci.virtual-worlds
Subject: Re: PHIL: sci.virtual-worlds.mud
Date: 14 Apr 92 10:45:08 GMT
Organization: University of Washington
Originator: hlab@milton.u.washington.edu


In article <1992Apr09.200207.131667@zeus.calpoly.edu> claudius@zeus.calpoly.edu 
 
(King_Claudius) writes:
> 
> I know this is going to be a religious war, but I seriously think that it's
> time that it be discussed.  MUDs have, in my opinion, risen above the realm  
of
> 'games' to those of textual [and soon to be graphical] virtual reality  
systems.
> 
they already are. 

There is one MUD (which is open right now) which uses graphical as well as 
textual sims, it's called BRSmud, and you have to compile a client for it.
BRSmuds require xterm libraries, so any xterm or NeXT with the xlibs can run  
it.
Anyone want to check it out?
telnet 128.138.248.32 5555 (TMI) and ask around...I think the guy's name is 
solaris on there.

-Cohort
Newsgroups: sci.virtual-worlds
From: cyberman@toz.buffalo.ny.us (Cyberman)
Subject: Re: TECH: Using TI340x0
Originator: hlab@milton.u.washington.edu
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 00:17:59 GMT



DG>b) I have heard disqueting rumors from other newsgroups (e.g.
DG>comp.sys.intel, comp.parallel) that Intel is discreetly diminishing
DG>support for the i860. This is unfortunate since it represents the
DG>company's best work to date on silicon, and is at present the
DG>closest thing we have to the ideal VR chip (hardware graphics,
DG>pipelined instructions, excellent MIPS/$, great floating point)
DG>in spite of its drawbacks (dreadful intruction set, poor 3rd-party
DG>vendor support, and it's easily a 4-month hack to port WorldTool
DG>to the i860 IPX/UNIX environment).

Typical hyper myopic INTEL.  They probably don't want it to
compete with the P5.  OR thier are having internal politics
squables. What I don't understand is why they have such high
prices for the I860.  Why?  The 486 has MORE silicon than it.
1.2 million as opposed to the I860's 1 million.

They over priced thier development tools.  [Like small businesses
can afford thier extortionary prices] I think they have really
ruined the sellability of the I860.

DG>My question is: what is the consensus among participants in this
DG>newsgroup as to the continued viability of the i860, vs. say,
DG>MIPS or SPARC (support for which doesn't look to be fading for
DG>many years to come)? I'm working on a hardware spec for a VR
DG>platform and just settled on the 860, but now I worry.

I perfer the I860 myself.  Intel just plain DOESN'T know what it
has!  I think they are having internal problems.  [called moron
pair interaction or administratium]  Thier I860 is briliant their
marketing for it is a dismal failure.  I don't even think they
have tried to market it.

I'm sure if some other Co. had it it would be in much greater
use.

        STEPHEN CYBERMAN@TOZ.BUFFALO.NY.US
        commiserated at Thu  04-09-1992  17:48:25
---
 * SLMR 2.1a * Unable to locate Coffee -- Operator Halted!
From: evenson@hitl.washington.edu (Mark Evenson)
Newsgroups: sci.virtual-worlds
Subject: Re: PHIL: Use of "VR" term
Date: 7 Apr 92 09:20:44 GMT
Article-I.D.: jabberwo.EVENSON.92Apr7012044
Organization: R+D Hipsters @ virtual HITLab, Ithaca
Originator: hlab@milton.u.washington.edu


In article <1992Apr5.180557.10458@u.washington.edu>
lwl@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Lydia Leong) writes:
[...]

   Most MUDders wouldn't claim that MUDs are Virtual Reality in the sense
   the word is used in the academic world. I think they're a step in the
   right direction (especially Tiny-variety MUDs, which are least as much
   'VR' as the Lucasfilm Habitat, IMHO), but they aren't Virtual Reality;
   that term, in an academic context, is reserved for a graphically-based
   world which one interacts with directly.

   I suppose you could call VR anything which is a computer mock-up of a
   universe with which one could somehow interact, but you're then getting
   into too broad of a definition -- are regular video games VR? standard
   text adventure games? I think not.

   VR as used by MUDders is just a convenience term.
[...]

Not really, as it seems to reflect an emerging trope in the cultural
studies part of the academy.  

For example, the Gulf War becomes the first VR war not so much because of
the configuration of F117A cockpits, but how the war was ``fought'' out
over CNN in a series of ``virtual realities'' (i.e. Smart Weapon VR,
Pentagon briefing chart VR, Iraqi TV's VR . . .)

And the stock market is a kind of virtual reality--the current bull market
as not being tied in *any* way to an economic reality (or at least
apparently functioning independently).

As shorthand, I think a fair first iteration of the use of ``virtual
reality'' as a term in academic cultural discourse would show a common
heritage with the notion of ``ideology'' as used by the succesors to
Gramsci.

And as I complementary term, this same emergent discourse uses
``cyberspace'' to denote the space engendered by the play of distributed
telecomputing technologies.

Whether the dominantly technological-orientated *posters* to this newsgroup
think this is a fair distinction (who knows about the lurkers?), might be
an interesting thread.  But I think there is a pretty good rationale
for the distinction I've laid out.  But this is useless unless others
think it's usefull. . .

Too bad that that the Third Conference on Cyberspace got canned for the
year--I was looking forward towards attending a conference at which the
``technologists'' (re)engaged the ``discursive'' virtual worlds enthusiasts.

I (like many?) look forward to the days in which this distinction is merely
historical, and the VR researcher is both technologically and discursively
oriented.  Of course, she already is:  she just doesn't know it.
Newsgroups: sci.virtual-worlds
From: Jim Orlowski <JJO107@psuvm.psu.edu>
Subject: APPS: VRS Demo Solved!
Originator: hlab@milton.u.washington.edu
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 21:52:09 GMT


I did it.  I finally solved the VR Studio Demo.

If you want some help (clues), you can e-mail me.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Jim Orlowski                   "I think we're gonna need a new Timmy!"
BitNet: JJO107@PSUVM                                     --Mr. Lizard
InterNet: JJO107@PSUVM.PSU.EDU                             Dinosaurs
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: machin@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Dave Machin)
Newsgroups: sci.virtual-worlds
Subject: Re: TECH: VR Studio Demo?
Date: 11 Apr 92 15:22:19 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Apr12.001207.1275
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Originator: hlab@milton.u.washington.edu



In looking at the programming I found that the room in the lighthouse must
be entered in order to put the scuba gear on.  Also, you need a GOLD key to
open the chest...not a wooden one.
Newsgroups: sci.virtual-worlds
From: thinman@netcom.com (Lance Norskog)
Subject: Re: TECH: Using TI340x0
Originator: hlab@milton.u.washington.edu
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 02:48:53 GMT


How does the Toshiba HSP stack up?  My impression from reading
the chip literature was that it could do 20k gouraud-shade triangles
per second, whatever that means this week.  It appeared to be
a mini-SGI pipeline on a chip for less than $150 US in quantity.
DiVision uses 2 of these and an 860 on the PC-based VR system
they showed at SIGGRAPH last summer in Electronic Realities.

Toshiba Semi marketing here in Silicon Valley disclaimed 
almost all knowledge of the chip, claiming that the customers
who use it send their engineers to Toshiba U. in Japan.  
(In sales this is called a brush-off.)

Lance Norskog
From: deering@deering.Eng.Sun.COM (Michael F. Deering)
Newsgroups: sci.virtual-worlds
Subject: Re: TECH: Using TI340x0
Date: 9 Apr 92 02:31:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: exodus.ku7b3iINN9m1
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
Originator: hlab@milton.u.washington.edu


Re recent posts about the TI34020 and the i860 as silicon engines for VR.

To build reasonable performance 3D rendering HW you need lots of 32-bit
flops and lots of deep pixel VRAM writing capability, and at the best
price per op you can get.  The i860 primarrly exceles as 64-bit/32-bit
flop engine.  While it has some special pixel rendering instructions,
they don't go nearly as fast as an inexpensive gate array can drive VRAM.

I designed an i860 into Sun's current highest performance graphics machine,
the SparcStation 2GT, but only use the i860 for the tasks it is best suited
for.  About half of the 32-bit floating point is off-loaded to two TIC30's,
and all of the pixel pushing is off-loaded to dedicated silicon.  While
this is a medium end design, this was designed a few years ago, the same
trade-offs have now scaled down into inexpensive architectures that people
will be doing VR applications on.

The i860 as origionally priced was *not* the least $/flop DSP chip, the
reason a lot of graphics people used it was that it had the highest
flop/single-chip rating, which kept system architectures simple.  While
Intel as been aggressively bringing the price of the i860 and its
follow-ons down, there are a *lot* of other competative choices out
there (and I don't mean just SPARC).

For pixel pushing, you're choices are more limited.  There are only a
few chips out on the general market that accelerate Z-buffered shading;
every major system vendor has their own propitary chips, because it can
make such a *big* performance difference.  The TI34020 is an intermediate
choice that can make sense in some markets broader than Z-buffered 3D.

All other things (like cost) being equal, the faster the graphics, the
better the machine will be for VR.  Thus the best designs will be the
ones that focus on price-performance, using whatever silicon you can
get your hands on.  I personally do not like using VR systems under
10 frames per second.  Combine this with your personal preference for
minimum world complexity (triangle count, total area fill), and its easy
to see how limited most of today's silicon choices are.

Michael Deering                         Email: Michael.Deering@Eng.Sun.COM
Sun Microsystems                        Phone: (415) 336-3017
Mountain View, CA
From: gross@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Ben Gross)
Newsgroups: sci.virtual-worlds
Subject: TECH: Power Glove timing diagrams wanted
Date: 10 Apr 92 00:39:16 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Originator: hlab@milton.u.washington.edu


  I am looking for any power glove timing diagrams that are avaliable.  If you
have them, please mail them to me or tell me where I can find them.
Ben Gross

-- 
! Mail to: b-gross@uiuc.edu    /!\    NeXT mail: bmg50042@sumter.cso.uiuc.edu !
! No matter where you go, there you are.   --Buckaroo Bonzai--                !
!-------------> Reality is only for those who lack imagination. <-------------!
!-----------> Disclaimer:  I am the Lorax, I speak for the trees. <-----------!

[Moderator (Mark): I'd recommend checking karazm.math.uh.edu for the timing
        diagrams.  I believe they were there last time I checked.]
Newsgroups: sci.virtual-worlds
From: claudius@zeus.calpoly.edu (King_Claudius)
Subject: PHIL: sci.virtual-worlds.mud
Originator: hlab@milton.u.washington.edu
Organization: California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 20:02:07 GMT


I know this is going to be a religious war, but I seriously think that it's
time that it be discussed.  MUDs have, in my opinion, risen above the realm of
'games' to those of textual [and soon to be graphical] virtual reality systems.

The discussion in rec.games.mud* seems to be toward the 'game' aspect.

What would sci.virtual-worlds.mud be about?  About how we can build upon the
concepts of the muds and develop them to fit the needs of those interested in
vurtual reality systems as well as building servers which are not games but
societies in an of themselves.  [many are (somewhat) already...]  I can see the
newsgroup as being moderated, to stem the flood of posts that plague
rec.games.mud* asking if a server is up or not.
-- 
VOTE VOTE VOTE VOTE VOTE VOTE VOTE VOTE VOTE VOTE VOTE VOTE VOTE VOTE VOTE VOTE
---King Claudius---                                   claudius@zeus.calpoly.edu
From: tmaddox@milton.u.washington.edu (Tom Maddox)
Newsgroups: sci.virtual-worlds
Subject: Sex & Violence in VR
Date: 7 Apr 92 23:45:12 GMT
Organization: The Evergreen State College, Olympia, Washington
Originator: hlab@milton.u.washington.edu


In article <31374@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> aamicone@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Andrew Micone) writ
es:
>In article <1992Mar30.122146.1168@wkuvx1.bitnet> kinnema@wkuvx1.bitnet (Mark Ki
nney, Attorney at Chaos) writes:
>>In article <1992Mar27.174807.10501@news.unomaha.edu>, ACM023@Zeus.unomaha.edu 
(Ed Stastny ACMM) writes:
>>> Also, there was a sub-article (half a page) on "virtual sex" with a few
>>> Timothy Leary comments in it.
>>
>>An interesting note to tie in with the recent "VR porn" discussion here: It
>>seems (according to this article, anyway) that the organizations working on VR
>>are reluctant to talk about this aspect of it, for PR reasons. They did
>>acknoledge the possibility, though.
>
>I can't blame them, all this media hype about VR Porn is only
>hurting the serious research efforts in the field. Most VR research
>has been going on quietly for many years now in fields like medical
>imaging and improved interface technologies. Research grants are
>going to go to other fields if it's percieved that VR's ultimate
>goal is a virtual sex playground. That's not to say that it's not an
>interesting idea, I know there are some startups like PiR (Pleasure
>instruments Research) working on the hardware side of the problem.
>They too like to keep a low-profile, which I can understand since
>many of us might feel, er, uncomfortable knowing what sort of
>"research" might be going on next door...moral outrage might be a
>better term

        I find very amusing the notion that anyone would feel moral outrage 
about vr research going into virtual sex, given the equanimity with which 
AI and vr researchers in particular have taken military money.

        "Sure, I'm a serious researcher.  I do Death Machine Simulations--
no sex, no sirree because that would be *dirty*."

        In fact, those serious researchers will respond to institutional needs
(killing, commanding, controlling, for instance; healing also, to be sure), not
to our individual human ones, because institutions pay the freight on research.

        Folks out in the Gibsonian "Street," however, will undoubtedly put the
technologies thus developed to new and innaresting uses; as I've said, I believe
vr porn will be one of them.


-- 
                                Tom Maddox
                        tmaddox@u.washington.edu
                "Writing is reading and reading is writing."
                                A. S. Byatt
Newsgroups: sci.virtual-worlds
From: wood@IDA.ORG (Jonathan Wood)
Subject: CONF: Virtual Reality Conferences
Originator: hlab@milton.u.washington.edu
Organization: IDA, Alexandria, VA
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 20:27:39 GMT


Anyone know about conferences in Virtual Reality?  I thought I heard
of one in the Washington DC area this summer....

-- 
Jon Wood, wood@ida.org, (703) 845-6632

[Moderator (Mark): Most conferences get posted in here one way or another--
        checking back through past postings should find several conferences.]
Newsgroups: sci.virtual-worlds
From: machin@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Dave Machin)
Subject: TECH: Equipment info
Originator: hlab@milton.u.washington.edu
Organization: Purdue University
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 22:39:49 GMT



I am looking for virtual reality equipment on any level which is capable
of the following:

  Multiple people in the same reality (at least two but more would be nice)
  Two glove input devices per person (not a must)
  Quick head tracking device per person
  Medium to high resolution visual display (320x200 and up) with full color
  3D sound

The only multiple person VR system I have heard of is the VREAM systems
second version.  Problem is that they have not released the first version
yet.  I have looked at the FAQ list but it is quite difficult to find what
I need from it.  If anyone knows if such equipment is or soon will be 
available please let me know.  Thanks in advance.

Dave Machin
machin@mentor.cc.purdue.edu
Newsgroups: sci.virtual-worlds
From: billc@Apple.COM (Bill Cockayne)
Subject: TECH: PGlove and Sega code/drawings for Macintosh
Originator: hlab@milton.u.washington.edu
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 00:46:07 GMT




I am presently building a Macintosh based VR system for school. I am building
it out of my pocket so i need to build all the interfaces myself.
 
Can someone tell me where to get the Mac stuff for the Sega glasses? The
site mentioned in previous articles does not have the stuff (info-mac) and
the euro site is unknown to my system.
 
I am also looking for anyone that can give me info on the high-res stuff
for the PGlove...the article/drawing from Joe Britt does not include info
on this.
 
Thanx
Bill Cockayne
net: billc@apple.com
From: geoffrey@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Geoff Thomas)
Newsgroups: sci.virtual-worlds
Subject: TECH: How to measure the spread of fingers on the hand?
Date: 13 Apr 92 04:47:16 GMT
Organization: Computer Science,University of Canterbury,New Zealand
Originator: hlab@milton.u.washington.edu



Hi, I'm wanting to know how the Exos DHM measures the angle BETWEEN
the fingers, and the large number of positions the thumb can have.

I know it use Hall-Effect sensors to measure the flex of the fingers,
but how does it tell how wide they are spread out, and what their
position is?

Any help / ideas / comments much appreciated!

Thanks,


Geoff.
From: cmcl2!acf3.nyu.edu!checker@uunet.UU.NET (Christopher Hecker)
Newsgroups: sci.virtual-worlds
Subject: Re: APPS/CONF: Virtual Reality in Medicine
Date: 16 Apr 92 07:06:55 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Apr17.180006.10786
Organization: New York University
Originator: hlab@milton.u.washington.edu



I can't seem to remember his name, but a fellow from the Army gave a
really great lecture at a recent VR conference here in NYC.  His was one
of the best lectures there...if no one else beats me to it, I will try
and find his name and address for you.

Chris
Newsgroups: sci.virtual-worlds