From: a_copeab@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.cyber
Subject: GURPS Autoduel with GURPS Cyberpunk
Date: 18 Aug 92 21:25:59 GMT
Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University
Archive-Name: rgc573
News-Moderator: Approval required for posting to rec.games.cyber

In article <1992Aug17.180947.19644@Veritas.COM>, jdale@cats.ucsc.edu writes:
> 
> In article <1992Aug16.234038.4682@Veritas.COM> apple!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!cc697 (Eric Oppen) writes:
>>
>>If you're playing GURPS Cyberpunk, or even if you aren't, these are both
>>very useful references for vehicles and/or weapons and weapon systems.  Be
>>warned, though, the "tanks" they describe are pretty wimpy compared with
>>real ones, or so my informant (who was in the US Army Armor) tells me.
> 
> Not just the tanks, actually (although maybe them especially).  All the
> autoduel stuff is way out of scale with the rest of GURPS.  One way to handle
> it is to use weight and space out of autoduel (or Uncle Al's with the standard
> conversions) and damage of the closest weapon in High-Tech.  Or, multiply
> the damage by at least 3 (it'll still be low, but it's easy).  Also, the
> armor is really bad; PD rises too high, but low armor values (common with the
> high weight of armor) are unrealistically low.  When I played Autoduel, I
> used the formula
>            PD = (x+4)/2    DR = 6 (x+3)/2

	The PD values in Autoduel are okay; Multiply DR by 20. The plastic
armor of AD takes the minimum damage of the weapon that hits it, regardless
of whether it penetrates or not. So, for example, a .50-cal round would knock
12 points of DR off on every hit. There are two special cases: AP (and HEAT)
rounds do only 1/2 of the above damage to armor, and HE rounds do 1/2 the
rolled damage.
 
	The reason that the Autoduel stuff is so out of line with later GURPS
products (like High Tech) is that it came out before the 3rd Edition, which
greatly modified firearm damage (and useage).

	Damage of some basic weapons: MG - 12d, AC - 3dx7, AT - 6dx6, HR -6dx8,
RR - 6dx7, L - 6dx6. Even for the megacorps, these would be pretty hefty
weapons. Vehicles would probably be more likely to carry .30-cals (see  Basic
Set or High Tech; weight is about 50 lbs, 4 cf, $750, 7d) or 5.56mm LMGs (see
High Tech; 20 lbs, 3 cf, $500, 5d). Vehicles armed with such weapons would
easily be LC 0 (a vehicle that was just armored would be 2 or 3).
  
> 
> ALSO, I think all the Autoduel/Car Wars prices are too low for Cyberpunk.
> They don't match.  Multiply Autoduel prices by 4-10 times, at least fo
> weapons.  The vehicle costs aren't bad, though, so maybe only the weapons 
> and maybe electronics (?).  

	Actually, I found the CP prices for cybernetics and computer gear *far*
too high, and I cut them to 10% of that listed (but character points *are*
charged for cybernetics). AD prices are low for CP only if you want to use AD
with CP, not CP with AD (is that confusing enough?). In other words, if you are
running a CP campaign, and you want to introduce armed and armored vehicles,
then yes, you do need to up the weapon (and armor!) prices in AD. On the other
hand, if have a AD campaign you want expand using CP, then the costs should be
left alone (but CP costs *should* be cut). Also note that, in a normal CP
world, the government (or The Company) will not be happy seeing a private
citizen driving around in an armed and armored vehicle, even if it is legal.

> 
> With all that said, I should note I find Autoduel very useful, at least until
> GURPS Vehicles comes out (but are they even working on it now?).  I've used
> it to make drones for a Rigger-type character, with microplanes and
> helicopters, and I'm trying out some super-small body sizes to see how they
> work (good for unmanned drones).

	I've seen playtest rules for Vehicles, and it is possible it may be
finished by the end of the year. When I tried to rebuild AD vehicles, I ended
up with a lot of extra weight and space. Until Vehicles comes out, AD is pretty
good for creating and using vehicles for a CP setting using GURPS.

Brandon Cope