HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tmohler+@cs.cmu.edu (Tim Mohler)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Engineer bashing
Date: 24 Jul 92 07:49:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.1992Jul24.074926.160211
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

In article <13069.2a6e91fc@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu> msp@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu (Michael S. Pettersen) writes:

>In general, the broader the range of a person's tastes, the better.  On the 
>other hand, if some natural scientists don't like the humanities, and some 
>social scientists don't like the nat scis, then it doesn't really seem to 
>me that you make them better people by forcing them to take classes which 
>are wasted on them.  Liberal arts shouldn't be forced on those for whom it 
>is unsuitable.

I am a math major here at CMU, but I also have an english major which is in
reality a "technical writing" major, meaning that I learn how to arrange
documents pleasingly, write technical reports and so forth.

However, as an english major, no matter how tenuously related to the
traditional dead white authors english major I may be, I still have to
take a core set of english courses called Discourse and Historical
Change, Reading 20th Century Culture, and something else with discourse
in the title, I forget what right now.

Anyways, I HATED all three of those courses, and I cursed the day the Dept.
Head was born. On the other hand, I, by god, learned something, even if it
was only about things I detested. I learned a bunch about different points of
view, and maybe I even soaked up a bit of the postmodern critical theory
that was thrown at me.

I consider those three courses perhaps the most valuable I have taken here,
because I learned something about myself, about others, and about my culture,
not just about writing or about mathematics.

I think you should be forced to take courses such as these, and at CMU, it
is tough to evade thinking in any course. That makes sure you will work
at it, even if you hate every minute of it.

Lastly, if you aren't "suited" for liberal arts or don't like them, why are
you at a liberal arts institution? (is henry going to jump on me for that
word :)

Tim
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: kls4344@ritvax.isc.rit.edu (Person in flux)
Subject: Re: PEOPLE ellipsis in english
Reply-To: kls4344@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 12:32:25 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.210101.24356@cis.ohio-state.edu>, 
amz@iguana.cis.ohio-state.edu (Arnold M Zwicky) writes:
>in  article <1992Jul28.125339.12752@ultb.isc.rit.edu>
>kls4344@ritvax.isc.rit.edu writes, in response to me:
>
>>I want people to remember that the word "deaf" is adjectival (maybe you, 
>>as a linguist, can help me clarify), and that deaf people want to be referred
>>to as people, just like gay people do.  I hate the term "the deaf" because 
>>it's so narrow and focuses only on one part of a fascinating group of people.
>
>the informed realize that what is going on here is not a denial of the
>label "people" to certain groups.  
[explanations of nationality adjectives, etc., deleted]
>but that's only for nationality adjectives.  pronunciation is pretty
>much irrelevant otherwise, and usually PEOPLE ellipsis is
>equal-opportunity: "the sighted and the blind", "the rich and the
>poor", *but not* "the straight and the gay", "the intelligent and the
>stupid".  there is no slur based on english grammar in the expression
>"the deaf" meaning `deaf people' (and i chose "the deaf" rather than
>"deaf people" deliberately to vary the construction: "gay people,
>ethnic minorities, and the deaf").  *however*, if deaf people
>themselves don't like to be referred to as "the deaf" (despite the
>National Theatre for the Deaf and so on), i'll be happy to switch.  on
>the other hand, i don't want to see problems invented (on the grounds
>of dubious principles) where there aren't any.        

You probably are right that my quibble is based on dubious principles, but I
did want to bring it up anyway because it does bother me.  I shall, however,
henceforth chill out about it, particularly in the context of your inimitable
and rhythmic writing style.  Thanks for the linguistic background.

Katie

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas)
Subject: Re: British Pronounciation
Organization: Gordian; Costa Mesa, CA
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 15:55:29 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.051321.10849@macc.wisc.edu>, anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
> At Dartmouth there was Thomas Scott Kirkpatrick Scott-Craig.
> At Wisconsin, Birute Cipliauskaite (the C is 'ts').
> 
> Next, I'm sure, we'll have camp names.  My favorite:
> Ophelia Meate.

  I knew a teacher who had a kid by the name of Adam Baum. 
Poor kid, mean parents.
-- 

		Michael Thomas	(mike@gordian.com)
	"I don't think Bambi Eyes will get you that flame thrower..."  
		-- Hobbes to Calvin
		USnail: 20361 Irvine Ave Santa Ana Heights, Ca,	92707-5637
		PaBell: (714) 850-0205 (714) 850-0533 (fax)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rhb@ucs.usl.edu (Bird Rendell H.)
Subject: People Mag (Re: Bewitched
Organization: Univ. of Southwestern La., Lafayette
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 01:30:38 GMT

Le Jojo sez:
>I think the US equivalent in "TV Guide" would be a bit different; maybe not.

I can't speak for "TV Guide", but the other day I was getting my hair
cut and trying to find something to read other than Hair Styling magazines,
and I ran across the July 5th (or so) issue of People magazine. It had
a big article about alimony (and the fact that Joan Lunden got stuck
with making huge payments to her new ex-husband).

About mid-article, it suddenly started talking about Martina. The paragraph
started like this:

"...And exorbitant demands are not reserved for members of the opposite sex
as Martina N. found out. When Julie Nelson  {or whatever her name is}
decided she wanted out, she sued Martina for half of everything including:
the two Mercedes..."

It was all done very matter-of-factly. I was so impressed I almost
dropped the magazine!      ;-)


Rendell

p.s.  The judgement was semi-against Martina. Julie will get to write
her kiss-n-tell-all book for which she is getting paid $$$$, and will
probably earn even more...
Xref: sparky soc.motss:33042 soc.bi:9843
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.bi
Subject: Re: On sex with men
Date: 30 Jul 92 02:41:12 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Jul30.024112.23574
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

In article <1327@dosbears> drp@dosbears.uucp writes:
>I think maybe you're not meeting, or not attracting, relaxed laid-back
>gay men. We're out here. :-)>

I think Jojo's sampling is probably a little odd...

yes, we/they are out there. I know.
-- 
                __
nelson@reed.edu \/                                            Love under will
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: thom@access.digex.com (The Elf-Lad)
Subject: How to get equity in insurance coverage?
Keywords: insurance, motss, domestic partners
Organization: Express Access Public Access UNIX, Greenbelt, Maryland USA
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 19:50:34 GMT

My company is fairly gay-positive, and includes sexual orientation in
its non-discrimination clause. 

The company pays 100% of each employee's health insurance. They
will also pay 50% for insuring spouses and dependents of employees.
At a recent staff meeting in which we discussed these and other
benefits, I asked if perhaps this latter policy weren't inequitable,
in that it discriminates against non-married employees with live-in
partners, both straight and gay. There was some heated discussion
(including an implication by one woman that being married was
the natural state, since those of who were not married made the
"choice" to remain single, and therefore were not entitled to the
same benefits). In the end, though, the vice president said he
would look into the feasibility of insuring the equivalent of
domestic partners.

Today, he came to my office, and said that it was not possible;
our insurer (Blue Cross of Washington, DC) will not insure anyone
other than spouses and dependents of employees. He said that the
company does not consider the policy inequitable, since they would
do it if they could, but that married people "deserve" this benefit
because many of them would be unable to work otherwise.

Certainly I don't want the company to take away a benefit from my
married colleagues, and I don't have a domestic partner myself so
the discussion has been a bit academic, but I still find the final
stance of the management inequitable.

My main question is, what is happening in those cities that have
domestic partnership legislation? Who is insuring the partners of
non-married employees in these places, if (as my vp assures me) the
insurance companies will only insure wedded couples?

Also, what is the likely effect that the domestic partnership 
pending in DC will have on my company? We're located in the District,
but we are not a branch of District government.

I think that my management is willing to{try to work out a solution,
though I don't think they consider this important enough to spend
much time on (after all, there's only one employee living with 
a motos while remaining unmarried, and I'm the only gay employee). 
That's why I'm trying to do some of the ground work, and present
them with options.

Thanks.
-- 
Thom Watson
elf-lad@access.digex.com (preferred)
elflad0@aol.com          GEnie=T.WATSON7
thom.watson@p924.f70.n109.z1.fidonet.org
Xref: sparky soc.motss:32023 rec.arts.tv:15083
From: cole@unix.SRI.COM (Susan Cole)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,rec.arts.tv
Subject: Re: Do You Remember any Gay/Lesbian Characters on TV Series?
Date: 21 Jul 92 18:28:42 GMT
Followup-To: soc.motss
Organization: SRI International, Menlo Park, California

There was a gay male couple on 'Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman'.  Was this
perhaps the first instance of ongoing gay characters in a TV series?

-- 
cole@unix.sri.com
{amdahl,rutgers}!sri-unix!cole
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.sex.motss
From: dthompso@nyx.cs.du.edu (David Thompson)
Subject: Hi. I'm Dave.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix @ U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 17:08:04 GMT



Hello, my name is David Thompson, and I think I speak for homosexuals
worldwide when I say, golly-gee-gosh!  Sometimes I get so mad I could
just stomp my foot!  People today are so homophobic it's terrible.  Just
as the color of someone's skin doesn't matter, neither should who a person
chooses to boink or be boinked by. Man, woman, both, or neither.
Gay Rights Forever!  Wake up America!
 
Xref: sparky soc.motss:32719 talk.politics.misc:36245
From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: There was this sign in the window...
Keywords: @$#!% NewsWatcher bug...
Date: 27 Jul 92 20:14:09 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <1992Jul23.145049.1784@mtdiablo.Concord.CA.US>, rob@mtdiablo.Concord.CA.US (Rob Bernardo) writes:
> sfsmith@pennsas.upenn.edu (Sandy F. Smith, Jr.) wrote:
# #The paper was deluged with letters -- supporting the ambulance drivers.  The
# #general tone of the letters ran like this: "Sexual harassment is sexual
# #harassment, regardless who's doing the harassing.  Putting a "We're Straight"
# #sign in the window in response to a come-on should be no more offensive than
# #saying "no, I'm not interested" to a pick-up line in a bar.  And now these
# #men are getting punished for just saying no?  Come on--this is grossly 
# #unfair."  The paper also excerpted a _Philadelphia Daily News_ column by
# #Jill Porter that made much the same point.
# 
# A publicly displayed sign stating one's sexual orientation is not just
# an act of saying "no." In context, it's obnoxious and insensitive.
# -- 
# Rob Bernardo
# rob@mtdiablo.Concord.CA.US

I see.  Sort of like a public display of affection by a same-sex
couple.  I guess those laws are OK after all, aren't they?
-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
"Well, maybe the Holocaust was right *for that culture*." -- a moral relativist
with whom I work.
From: drp@dosbears.UUCP (David R. Preston)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Snow (absolutely no motss relevance)
Date: 28 Jul 92 17:42:33 GMT
Reply-To: drp@dosbears.uucp
Organization: DosBears

In article <70348@apple.Apple.COM> stevenso@Apple.COM (David Stevenson) writes:
>broughton@admin.usask.ca notes:
>>
>>After all, almost every English word if put in quotes is a quotation
>>from the Oxford English Dictionary.
>
>Well, there're worse places to quote from.

Almost every word in the OED is quoted from somewhere else, so
there are better places from which to quote :-)

--
         David R. Preston   drp@dosbears.uucp dosbears@netcom.com
              Information gladly given but safety requires
               the avoidance of unnecessary conversation.
            D. R. Preston 584 Castro St. #614 SF CA 94114 USA
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.bi
From: grinch@micor.ocunix.on.ca (Dave Ferguson)
Subject: Re: Breeders and other epithets
Organization: M.B. Cormier INC., Orleans (Ont)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 22:50:10 GMT


> [monosexual stuff]
>
>Bi the way, has anyone ever known a "bisexual" who is primarily
>homosocial (if you will)?  Every bisexual I know has a MOTOS on
>hir arm but also professes interest in MOTSS. :-)

Daemon


-- 
+ D.C.X. Ferguson, "Daemon"          Industry, Science & Technology Canada   +
+ grinch@micor.ocunix.on.ca          Policy Sector                           +
+                                    Ottawa, Ontario, CANADA                 +
+        No tax dollars were expended to bring you this message              +
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jglover@ducvax.auburn.edu (Jay Glover)
Subject: Re: aikido!
Organization: Auburn University, AL
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 15:46:45 GMT

In article <33825@cbmvax.commodore.com>, kominetz@cbmvax.commodore.com (John Kominetz - CATS) writes:
> In article <asuccop.712440851@milton> asuccop@milton.u.washington.edu (Annemarie Succop) writes:
>>
>>	nice to see other queer aikido folks around!
> 
> There are a few of us around.  :-)
> Any other gay martial artists out there?

Ummm...   6th kyu, Shotokan Karate
Been training for a little less than a year.

 - jay g
From: scott@bbx.basis.com (Scott Amspoker)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: resonances
Date: 29 Jul 92 03:48:57 GMT
Organization: BASIS International, Ltd., Albuquerque NM USA

In article <1992Jul28.060025.23824@reed.edu> nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:
>[how does Arnold always manage to post interesting things?]
>
>In article <deafpride@vadier.gr.osf.org> emcmanus@gr.osf.org (Eamonn McManus) writes:
>>While (as Arnold points out) there are important differences, the
>>tales of deaf people resisting attempts to force them to be "normal"
>>and of the establishment of Deaf Pride groups are surely striking to
>>any gay person.
>
>What's also striking to me is the amount of synergy there is between
>people who are fluent in sign (at least ASL) and lesbigay people. My
>experience is somewhat sketchy - I only have data from Portland and
>Seattle, and only from two or three people. But it seems like a
>proportionately huge number of signers are lesbigay.

Maybe I don't get out of the house enough but the only signer I
know is a lesbian.  She carries a beeper in case they need her
down at the city jail/police headquarters for interpret for
a deaf person who has been brought in.  When I first met her all
I could think was "geez, how many deaf folks get arrested in this
town everyday".  It's just something I'd never really thought about
before.

-- 
Scott Amspoker                       |    
Basis International, Albuquerque, NM |  Too bad ignorance isn't really
                                     |  bliss.  Then it could be outlawed.
scott@bbx.basis.com                  |
Xref: sparky soc.motss:32626 rec.arts.tv:15423 rec.arts.tv.uk:4525 rec.arts.tv.soaps:26662 soc.bi:9591 alt.politics.homosexuality:5203
From: sara@castle.ed.ac.uk (Swamp Thing)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,rec.arts.tv,rec.arts.tv.uk,rec.arts.tv.soaps,soc.bi,alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: Do You Remember any Gay/Lesbian Characters on TV Series?
Date: 27 Jul 92 14:03:08 GMT
Organization: News Addicts

kominetz@cbmvax.commodore.com (John Kominetz - CATS) writes:

>In article <BrsMLs.8x7@news.cso.uiuc.edu> ziauddin@osiris.cso.uiuc.edu (Tasneem Ziauddin) writes:
>>armitage@ficus.lmc.edu writes:
>>>In article <1992Jul20.190203.21469@ccu.umanitoba.ca> wyatt@ccu.umanitoba.ca  writes:
>>
>>>a British program I've seen in the States on Public Television once or twice 
>>>has a gay male regular -- I believe it's called "Are You Being Served".  
>>>They play off of it with puns and such.
>>
>>The show is "Are You Being Served?" and the character's name is Mr.
>>Humphreys.

Mr Humphreys was never actually *stated* to be gay; this was very much a
series of the 70s and it relied very much on stereotypes and innuendo. 
Mr Humphreys was a stereotyped limp-wristed queen who worked in the
menswear department of the store (Grace Bros) in which the sitcom was
set, and much joking would be made around his, eg.  taking a customer's
inside leg measurements.  But it would never be stated that he was gay;
this was left up to the innuendo.  I think it was funny although I'm
sure *many* would disagree with me for reasons varying from (un)PCness
to naffness.  However it's the naffness of Jimmy Perry and David Croft
sitcoms that appeals to me and thus I'm a confirmed fan of such classics
as _It Ain't Half Hot Mum_ (which had a drag queen character analogous
to AYBS's Mr Humphries - the show was about a British army entertainment
unit in the Indian jungle), _Dad's Army_, _Hi Di Hi_ and _'Allo 'Allo_.

Sara
-- 
 >{8-)     Sara Hopkins     (-8}<              _____^__
 Geography Dept.  Edinburgh Uni.  Drummond St. \ OOO/ / The Thing
 Edinburgh,  EH8  9XP,  UK. +44 (0/31) 650 2662 \++/ /   From
 >{8-) sara@geovax.ed.ac.uk (-8}<                \/\/ The Swamp
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jns@wam.umd.edu (J. N. Shaumeyer)
Subject: the new innocent
Originator: jns@rac2.wam.umd.edu
Organization: Militant Homosexual Lobby, Gay Lifestyle, Inc.
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 05:31:27 GMT


The following excerpt is from an article on the
front page of _The Diamondback_, the student 
newspaper here at U. Maryland, from July 23.
The headline was "HIV tests urged by officials".

      "We're not seeing many positive results
   [from testing so far], but the risky behavior
   is there," Hoban [health services director] said.
      According to the results of a 1991 study by
   the Maryland Campus AIDS Research Effort, 21%
   of the 3,394 campus students surveyed had had
   10 or more sexual partners.  Also, 25.3% of those
   surveyed reported having heterosexual anal
   intercourse, and 12.6% reported having had a 
   sexually transmitted disease.

I was shocked to see that so many had reported
having *heterosexual* Gay Sex [tm], not to mention
their unbridled promiscuity.

When some of these people develop AIDS, how long
will it take to transform them into 'innocent'
victims?

--jns
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: B-word: False Analogy to "Good/Bad Jews"
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 00:01:54 GMT


Thanks go to Arnold Zwicky for a good posting on the
linguistic aspects (ambiguity in the way evaluative
adjectives work).

But no one has yet mentioned a specific, and I think
important, historical issue related to anti-Semitism and the
phrase "good Jew, bad Jew." For one thing, these phrases
must always be used in quotes (sneer quotes, if you like),
because apart from sectarian religious dialog *within* the
Jewish community, they *always* indicate anti-Semitism, that
is, anti-Jewish sentiment.

The most common "good/bad Jew" argument arises from the
bigoted attitude that Jews who do what non-Jews want them to
do (99% of the time they mean some form of "stay in your
place and don't make trouble for us") are "good," and those
who don't are "bad."  There is an even more virulent form
of this that suggests all Jews are really "bad," but the
subservient, self-abnegating Jews are marginally "better."

A related important thrust has to do with what some writers
call "house" Jews, a category that is to Jews en masse
somewhat as the "Uncle Tom" concept is to African Americans:
someone willing to be a toady to those in power.

Another important thrust involves a prejudice that is also
common within parts of the Jewish community itself: that the
educated, (western) Europeanized Jews are (or were, since
we're really talking pre-Hitler here) "better" than the
central or eastern European Jews (for example, in the Warsaw
ghetto).

I think all of this is rather different from the "breeder"
as homophobe (or not) discussion preceding.

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: A New Boom and Bust Theory
Date: 28 Jul 1992 12:58:46 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <1992Jul27.174045.16658@news.columbia.edu> 
egl1@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Elizabeth G. Levy) types:

I'm not quite sure I understand why this article was cross-posted
to talk.politics.misc and the rest, nor do I understand, really,
why it was posted to soc.motss.  Is it particularly motss-ish to
be interested in the relative breast sizes of Marilyn Monroe,
Jayne Mansfield, Penelope Tree, and Twiggy?

Well, as long as we're talking about body parts, how about
this paragraph from today's LA Times:

	Perkins said he has "absolute confidence" in the
	identity of the man in custody.  In addition to
	photograph and fingerprint match-ups, Perkins said,
	Hawkins [a bisexual alleged murderer] has a rare
	condition -- a lack of skin pigmentation in his
	genitals -- that has confirmed his identity.

--Arne
From: fjvwing@cs.vu.nl (FJ!!)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: sex with gay and bi men (part 3)
Date: 30 Jul 92 19:55:53 GMT

emcmanus@gr.osf.org (Eamonn McManus) writes:
:amz@iguana.cis.ohio-state.edu (Arnold M Zwicky) writes:
:/(dean is, unfortunately, now at a site that doesn't get news.  pity,
:/since he *loves* being displayed in public.  i'll send him a copy
:/of these postings, though.)
:This is the same Dean who indulged in very public very naked
:mud-wrestling at Europride, unless I am very much mistaken.  Not, I
:think we can say, a shy person.

'FJ, if a person sitting at another table is allowed to smoke a cigar, forcing
me to inhale his carcinogenic fumes, I don't see why I shouldn't be allowed to
jack off, which is a totally private, non-intrusive activity. Provided I catch 
the semen of course.'

My trip to Switzerland provided me with all new ways to look at loads of
subjects. Going to a restaurant has never been the same again.

					FJ!! (insiders joke: big dogs)
From: lisbon@vpnet.chi.il.us (Gerry Swetsky)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Results from the Con Part I
Date: 31 Jul 92 09:36:13 GMT
Organization: Vpnet Public Access

In article <1992Jul29.211125.24594@midway.uchicago.edu> elle@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:
>>The answers/decisions from the meeting of the motss.cabal held at the .con.
>
>1G.  Chicago.

    1H.  At Ellen and Cliff's place.

--
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Xref: sparky soc.motss:32296 alt.activism:13340 talk.politics.misc:35555 alt.individualism:4480