From: nyikos@math.scarolina.edu (Peter Nyikos)
Subject: Re: Is it Christian values or chavinism?
Organization: USC  Department of Computer Science
Date:  4 Oct 92 01:30:06 GMT

In <1992Sep30.072730.14377@netcom.com> gordons@netcom.com (Gordon Storga) writes:

><nyikos.717792761@milo.math.scarolina.edu> nyikos@math.scarolina.edu (Peter Nyikos) writes:
>>In <10880@scott.ed.ac.uk> iad@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Ivan A Derzhanski) writes:
>>><nyikos.717627005@milo.math.scarolina.edu> nyikos@math.scarolina.edu (Peter Nyikos) writes:
>>>>In <1992Sep25.211600.23804@coopsol.com> gordons@coopsol.com (Gordon Storga) writes:
>>>>><1992Sep18.233054.14674@noao.edu> forgach@noao.edu (Suzanne Forgach) said:
>...
>>>>>>Oh, yeah, you mean like the way unborn babies "fake" their suffering when
>>>>>>they are ripped limb from limb via abortion.
>>
>>>No, I don't mean like that way.  I don't think unborn babies scream or
>>>wringle when ripped limb by limb, so they don't show suffering, fake
>>>or genuine. 
>>
>>"Wringle"? do you mean "wriggle," by any chance?
>>
>>"...the hub of the needle in the woman's belly has jerked.  First to
>>one side. Then to the other side. Once more it wiggles, is *tugged*,
>>like a fishing line nibbled by a sunfish.  It is the fetus that 
>>worries thus."  --R. Selzer, "What I saw in Abortion."

{Restorations:}

>>A far more graphic account of the struggle of a fetus as a result
>>of a saline abortion can be found in a recent post of mine:

>>[From THE SUFFERING OF SOME UNBORN AND THEIR MOTHERS Case 1]

	>>After the (amniotic) fluid was withdrawn, he injected 200 cc's of the
>>saline solution--half a pint of concentrated salt solution.  From then
>>on it was terrible.  My baby began thrashing about--it was like a 
>>regular boxing match in there.  She was in pain.  The saline was burning
>>her skin, her eyes, her throat.  It was choking her, making her sick.
>>She was in agony trying to escape.  She was scared and confused at how her
>>wonderful little home had suddenly been turned into a death trap.

>>	For some reason it had never entered my mind that with an abortion
>>she would have to die.  I had never wanted my baby to die; I only wanted
>>to get rid of my "problem". But it was too late to turn back now.  There
>>was no way to save her.  So instead I talked to her.  I tried to comfort
>>her.  I tried to ease her pain.  I told her I didn't want to do this to
>>her, but it was too late to stop it.  I didn't want her to die.  I 
>>begged her not to die.  I told her I was sorry, to forgive me, that I
>>was wrong, that I didn't want to kill her.

>>	For two hours I could feel her struggling inside me.  But then,
>>as suddenly as it began, she stopped.  Even today, I remember her very
>>last kick on my left side.  She had no strength left.  She gave up and
>>died. Despite my grief and guilt, I was relieved that her pain was 
>>finally over.  But I was never the same again.  The abortion killed not
>>only my daughter; it killed a part of me.

>>[End of excerpt]

>You know, I threw a couple of pieces of bacon in a hot frying pan once.
>They sizzled and popped, writhed and curled up, they even changed color.

>I never thought at any time that they were aware and feeling pain.  Do you?

You're a sick man, Gordon.

Peter Nyikos

Newsgroups: talk.abortion