HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ACROWSON@ESOC.BITNET
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Re: Salomon 9000EXP opinions
Date: 7 Apr 92 23:03:03 GMT
Article-I.D.: ESOC.92098.193714ACROWSON
Organisation: European Space Operation Centre (E.S.O.C)

In article <1288@lucifer.UUCP>, phil@eg.lucasauto.co.uk (Phil Brown) says:
>
  (much deleted)
>
>My question to add to Dave's is can people relate their experiences of
>Salomon skis.  I have outgrown my old Rossignol XP11s but do not have
>much experience of performance skis so am finding it difficult to
>chose new skis.  Are Salomon skis anything special as they would
>have you believe, or are they just different?
>
I tried a pair of Salomon 9000 2S skis in February, in Crans Montana. I had
heard a lot about how good the Salomons were meant to be. I had also seen a
comparative test of many skis (in the German magazine "Ski"), where the
professional testers had given very high ratings to all the Salomon skis
tested. However, the test also included a group of "amateur" skiers; some
liked the skis but at least half (varying between the skis) didn't get on
with them at all...

I didn't know what to expect. The previous weekend, I had had real problems
getting used to my new boots (after three years in the old ones). What was
adding a new "high performance" (read expensive :) ski to them going to do?

Amazing. Very quick to turn. Very light feel. But stable. And a good edge
grip on hard snow. I had the feeling the skis were doing exactly what I
asked them to without effort. In moguls (I'm not a great mogul skier!), they
seemed to snake their own way down and round the bumps. I was most upset.
This wasn't the right answer. I hoped they would be "just another ski".
I had been very pleased with my new (in October) Volkl P9s until this.

I didn't get to try them in deep snow, except some horrid crust where I fell
flat on my face but would probably have done on any other skis. The only
negative point was a tendency to waver (_not_ flutter) when running absolutely
flat on hard-packed snow at low speeds -- not a big problem! I also missed
slightly the "spring" of my Volkls.

My general impression was of being almost unaware of the skis, just skiing.
They seemed very easy, almost lazy, to ski on -- I felt I was skiing
better than ever, without trying so hard (these two may be related, following
another thread!)  The only problem? Justifying a second new pair of skis in
one season.
From: klaus@captain-crunch.ai.mit.edu (Klaus B. Biggers)
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Re: How Do They Build Moguls?
Date: 6 Apr 92 22:57:02 GMT
Article-I.D.: life.23175
Organization: MIT Artificial Intelligence Laboratory

In article <1992Apr3.004644.25078@nas.nasa.gov> eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya) writes:

>Too bad about the guy in Utah.  He didn't make the LD50 time.

The problem with avalanches is that at zero minutes, your chance of survival
is not 100%, its somewhere around 80% or so isn't it, meaning the ride
can kill you as I believe it did for this fatality.

-klaus                                              klaus@ced.utah.edu

_______________________________________________________________________________
From: harsant@headplant.trl.OZ.AU (Dave Harsant)
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Re: Question
Date: 10 Apr 92 00:54:25 GMT
Organization: Telecom Research Labs,Melbourne, Australia

In article <1992Apr1.195741.7469@gtephx.UUCP> romanenkod@gtephx.UUCP (Dan Romanenko) writes:
>
>Telluride, for one, has this method of rating their slopes:
>  Green
>  Double Green
>  Blue
>  Double Blue
>  Black
>  Double Black
>

I prefer white slopes myself.

:-)


And while on this subject, who was the clown who graded Rolex (at Steamboat)
as Double Black?

--
Dave Harsant,
AOTC Telecommunications Research Laboratories  |  d.harsant@trl.oz.au
From: euaphe@eua.ericsson.se (Peter Henriksson)
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Re: Please help -- need new skis.
Date: 9 Apr 92 18:08:27 GMT
Organization: Ellemtel Telecom Systems Labs, Stockholm, Sweden

rcodo@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Rob Codo) writes:

>**> What are the best skis?
>**> 
>**> Price is no object.
>**> 
>**> -- LSC

>     This is certainly a loaded question.  I have always had good
>     luck with Atomic.  I have been skiing on Atomic's for about
>     ten years and have no complaints.  I really enjoy the Atomic
>     GS skis.  (There are numerous different models) Bernard
>     Knauss, who some claim to be the best GS skier in the
>     world races on Atomic.

Can't say anything about this. I've never had a pair of Atomics.


>     But if price is no object - you might want to consider Volkl.
>     The Volkl Rentigger is an excellent all around ski, (bumps, crud,
>     deep snow - it is even fairly stable at warp speeds) and the p9
>     is a great high performance slalom "rocket".  Volkl makes excellent 
>     equipment, but it is also *very expensive*.  Being an HP'ite, 
>     I am sure you can relate! :-) 

I sure can second the opinion on the Volkl Renntiger. The best allround ski I
have ever tried. All IMHO of course. However, I've seen several US postings
comment on how expensive the Volkls are. How much do they cost over there?
Here in Sweden (That's not Switzerland ;-) they are pretty much in line with
other brand's high performance skis, and they're far cheaper than for example
the Salomon monocoque skis.
Just curious.

>     Ski all spring - golf all summer!

I can second that too. Of course I assume that you're talking about Frisbee Disc Golf,
and not that strange game when you're to put a ball in the ground using some sort
of funny stick ;-)


--
 ( euaphe@eua.ericsson.se (  \_o__    __      _o_   ( "That's the trouble with (
 ) Peter Henriksson       )    |     ' '      \|/   )  reality - It's taken    )
(  Ellemtel Telecom Labs (    /\             `--'  (   far too seriously."    ( 
)  Stockholm , SWEDEN    )   ' '              |    )   - An Emotional Fish    )
From: melle@graham.uswest.com ( Chris Melle )
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: ParaGliding in the US?
Date: 3 Apr 92 00:12:23 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: U S WEST Advanced Technologies
Originator: melle@graham

Hang gliders are still forbidden at most ski areas in the US (due
to liability as already stated).  I believe the primary problem
was transportation; it is quite unwieldy to carry an 18 foot bag
on a chair lift in the wind. Trolls sometimes had problems just
carrying 7 foot tobaggans on the back of the chair.  I think
the ski areas may be more susceptable to paragliders due to
their compactness.

As in the early stages of HG, the willingness of management to
allow such behavior is dependant on the approach. If you were
to make an educated proposal in a businesslike manner (rather
than hopping on the chair with a "big pack" ala renegade style),
I wonder if some areas might go for it.

It can happen. Aspen Mtn allows HG and PG in the summer, Steamboat
allows HG (PG?) in the summer and I have heard that Aspen Highlands may
let a HG or two off the top of Logus(sp?) in the winter.

FYI, Paragliding is much more suitable while wearing skiis since
flying is done in the seated position (as the old HG did). Wearing
skiis while flying prone in a HG has the danger of damaging the
rear flying wires and possibly the sail (in addition to a 
mega-increase in drag).

The following states have certified (by the APA) paragliding
instructors (email me for a detailed list) as of 3/92:
NV AK CA(lots) CO MA ID MT NH NY OR TX UT WA WY MI NC 

Ski fast, talk dirty.
(or as the jackalope sez: "223's, they'll never catch me!"

-- 
Chris Melle    U S WEST Adv. Tech.        FAX: 303 541 6773
4001 Discovery Drive, Suite 320         Phone: 303 541 6836
Boulder, CO  80303                   Internet: melle@uswest.com
UUCP: ...{boulder,bellcore,att,sunpeaks}!uswat!melle
From: lowell@tc.fluke.COM (Lowell Skoog)
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Helicopter Access (was: Alaskan Heliskiing)
Date: 13 Apr 92 17:48:52 GMT
Reply-To: lowell@tc.fluke.COM (Lowell Skoog)
Followup-To: rec.backcountry
Organization: John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, WA

Jim Isbell writes:
>
>Lowell Skoog writes:
>>
>>Do people who have heli-skied (or heli-hiked) ever have doubts 
>>about the practice?

>I can understand your concern but you have to understand "wilderness" in
>Washington and Colorado and even British Columbia is a little different 
>than it is here.

I understand the difference in scale between Alaskan wilderness and
that in the lower forty-eight states.  I'm not condeming the use of 
helicopters, just raising questions about it.

I have used helicopters myself in the Cascades, BC Coast Range, and
Selkirks.  A friend of mine used a helicopter last spring to approach
the Devil's Thumb.  Both my friend and I have felt misgivings about
it.

Helicopters don't extend the limits of the possible really, but they
greatly alter the style of a trip.  Fifty years ago climbers
approached Mt. Waddington by bushwacking from the sea.  Thirty years
ago, they hiked from Tellot Lake after landing in a float plane.
Today, they land right on the glacier in a helicopter.  I've done it
myself.  The Coast Mountains have become a smaller place because of
helicopters.

Kurt Diemberger speaks of a "barrier of fatigue" that is needed to
preserve wilderness.  Europeans like Diemberger, who long ago lost
the wilderness in their home countries, look to places like Canada
and Alaska to preserve it.  I don't want to lock people out of the
wilderness.  I don't even want to eliminate helicopters.  But I
wonder whether it is a good thing to use them as much as we do.

In the Coast Mountains, Don Serl and others have sometimes
compromised by flying in and walking out.  I have considered limiting
my air support to float or ski planes.  This would allow me to enter
deep wilderness, but would put limits on just how close I could get
to a particular objective.

I'm interested in other views on this subject.  Notice that I've
directed follow-ups to rec.backcountry.

					--Lowell Skoog
					  Seattle, Washington, USA
From: derekd@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Derek Dang)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 16:51:33 GMT
Subject: Heavenly tickets for sale
Organization: Desktop Network Group (SSD)
Newsgroups: rec.skiing

Hello,

    I have three tickets for Nevada-side Heavenly for sale.  I bought them
originally for $30, but if you buy all three, I'll sell them at $70.  Please
email me if you are interested.

Derek (too-tired-of-the-4-hour-trip-to-go-skiing) Dang
derek@hpnst.mayfield.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: sailor@cellar.org (Rick Emerson)
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Re: Wedge turning to parallel turning: Ideas?
Date: 14 Apr 92 22:30:11 GMT
Organization: The Cellar BBS and public access system

martel@marvin.mr.sintef.no (Paulo Martel) writes:

> I would like to have the complete reference of the 2 books discussed here,
> "The Centered Skier" and "Skiing from the inside". Are they recommended for
> someone struggling to be a good intermediate skier (and expert some day...)?
> 
 Not having read "Skiing From The Inside" I can't comment but "The Centered
Skier" is recommended for skiers at any level.  Don't look for a great deal
about do 1, 2, 3 and you'll be great, this book is more about the business
of improving one's skiing (e.g., imaging, more is less, and some other
techniques).  I just looked for a copy to send Paul and (sigh...) it's
temporarily out of print.  Try haunting ski stores that have books and
(believe it or not) "New Age" stores - Bantam Books has, for some bizarre
reason, included this book in its New Age collection - blech!

 | Richard B. Emerson     | Reply to Rick@SSG.com                           |
 | System Support Group   |-------------------------------------------------+
 | Post Office Box 180    |   "Choose to chance the rapids                  |
 | Lansdale, PA 19446 USA |    And dare to dance the tide." -- Garth Brooks |
Organisation: European Space Operation Centre (E.S.O.C)
Date: Thursday, 16 Apr 1992 10:36:15 CET
From: <ACROWSON@ESOC.BITNET>
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Re: SLUSHY SKIING

In article <1992Apr15.213340.29683@news.cs.brandeis.edu>,
st910131@pip.cc.brandeis.edu says:
>
>I have a question... Everyone complains about slushy, mushy conditions.
> ... deleted ...
>but for recreational skiiers I can't immagine anything better.  I am an expert
>skiier, can anyone tell me if I'm CRAZY, or if anyone else has this same love
>for SLUSHY SPRING SKIING?
>
I'm not an expert skier but I like slush too. What I don't like is the morning
after, when the slush is pretending to be concrete again. Last weekend in
Verbier we were skiing with this concrete -> soup transformation during the
day, and I decided what I really hated about the early mornings was the NOISE
of the skis clattering over the ice. No real problem skiing this sort of ice,
because it's "textured" by skiers or machines before it freezes, but it's
so LOUD! Any thoughts on what would make a quiet ski (which also works well
on ice and in slush!)?

Anthony Crowson
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: cloyd_j@apollo.hp.com (John Cloyd)
Subject: re : frozen northeast
Originator: cloyd_j@face_plant
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Apollo Division - Chelmsford, MA
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 16:00:54 GMT

    In Maine the biggest dumps of late snow have been at
Saddleback & Sugarloaf. Saddleback closed 2 weeks ago
with the best snow I've seen out here in years. Sugarloaf
got almost as much, and will be open this weekend, though
I think it's their last. Lift tickets there are $20.
Can't think of any place else up here worth driving to.
In N.H. they say Cannon Mt. has gotten major dumps too,
but I'm not sure if it's still open, and Wildcat got a
good amount. 

                                jc
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Re: Avalanche death in Utah
From: hugh@fivegl.co.nz (Hugh Grierson)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 92 00:03:24 GMT
Reply-To: hugh@fivegl.co.nz (Hugh Grierson)
Organization: Task Management Ltd, Auckland, New Zealand

What time of day was the avalanche?  Also, was it a slab or point release?
(Just curious...)

-- 
-Hugh Grierson--hugh@fivegl.co.nz----------Go fast or go home----------------
-Task Management Ltd-Auckland-New Zealand-Ph:+64.9.5206109-Fax:+64.9.5206101-
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: crispin@csd.uwo.ca (Crispin Cowan)
Subject: Re: Telescopic poles wanted -- End of season sale??
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Western Ontario, London
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 04:15:54 GMT

In article <1992Apr12.032055.28986@fcom.cc.utah.edu> bbarkey@victoria.utah.edu (Brian Barkey) writes:
>From: byrnes@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (John Byrnes)
>>IMHO, the only adjustable poles to have are the ones with push buttons.  I've
>>had a pair of Ramers now for...8 years?  They've never slipped.  
>Freinds of mine say that the 'push button poles' are weaker. Also
>I don't know if anyone makes them anymore, do they?
Dunnow about any others, but the ones I have are anything but weaker.
Their main problem is that they are substantially heavier than standard
poles.  Thus, I used them as a kid while I was still growing, and now
keep them around as spares/guest kit.  I don't use them day to day
because of the weight, but I have no doubt that they can stand up to
punishment.  Actually, I don't use them now because I've given up skiing
for snowboarding, but that's a different story :-).

Crispin
-----
Crispin Cowan, CS grad student, University of Western Ontario
Phyz-mail:  Middlesex College, MC28-C, N6A 5B7
E-mail:     crispin@csd.uwo.ca		Voice:  519-661-3342 
"If you want an operating system that is full of vitality and has a
great future, use OS/2."  --Andy Tanenbaum
From: klaus@captain-crunch.ai.mit.edu (Klaus B. Biggers)
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Re: Avalanche death in Utah
Date: 6 Apr 92 22:46:59 GMT
Article-I.D.: life.23171
Organization: MIT Artificial Intelligence Laboratory

In article <1992Apr2.154233.14038@javelin.sim.es.com> bgeer@javelin.sim.es.com writes:

>ome mention was made of photography or video-making as the
>reason for the trip.

They were filming an extreme skiing video financed by the gentleman that
died.

>  I don't recall hearing the size of the group.

12 was the number I got.

>One report included a short interview with the backcountry avalanche
>forecasting service, who indicated avalanche danger was "moderate".

It was raised to high the next day on southern exposures.

Other extreme skiers that have skied this slope in other years had said
that it is a slope which you only ski in the best of conditions on the
most stable days. They said this year did not qualify by those standards.

>The avalanche occured on a south to southeast face & looked like a
>surface slough which carried the skier over an est. 25' rocky cliff
>triggering another slide below it.  The skier was found under 7' of
>snow.  No mention was made (that I heard) of his wearing a
>transceiver.

The initial fracture was one foot in depth and fairly narrow. The
secondary slide had a three foot fracture and ran about 1000 feet.

They were wearing transcievers... otherwise he'd likely still be there.
He was found after 20 minutes. They had dug a snow pit and one skier
opted out saying it was too fragile a snowpack. I guess he was right.

The man was DOA after a life flight to SLC. I heard he had died of the
trauma of the slide, not suffocation or exposure.

>The young man's name was given in the report, but not enunciated
>clearly or spelled on the screen so I am not sure of the last name.
>He had moved to Utah from Boise primarily because of the skiing
>opportunities here.

He had just inherited large sums of money. Both of his parents were
killed in a plane crash in the not so distant past. A year or so I
believe. All of their money came from one of those lawn spraying
companies, I can't recall the name of the company right now but it was a
national chain.. the third largest in the country.

He had just purchased a Condo at Hellgate.

-klaus                                              klaus@ced.utah.edu

_______________________________________________________________________________
Newsgroups: rec.skiing

In rec.skiing, heff@apollo.HP.COM (Jeffery Oesterle) writes:

> 
> For a few months now, I've had variable wrist pain.  My left 
> is worse (I'm a rightie), but both bug me.  I don't think the 

Just curious...do you use poles with straps or plastic wrap around
grips?  If you use straps (preferred by most, including myself), do
you have strap going over your hand, looping down and under your wrist,
or down between your hand and the grip, looping up and over your wrist. 
I find the second method more comfortable, especially in the bumps, 
since I can lean on the strap and not have to grip the pole tightly.
 

> -- 
> ------
> Jeff Oesterle
> ------


John
From: mueller@mount.fsu.edu (Frank Mueller)
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Re: SLUSHY SKIING
Date: 16 Apr 92 17:52:21 GMT
Organization: Florida State University Computer Science

In article <1992Apr15.213340.29683@news.cs.brandeis.edu>, st910131@pip.cc.brandeis.edu writes:

> but for recreational skiiers I can't immagine anything better.  I am an expert
> skiier, can anyone tell me if I'm CRAZY, or if anyone else has this same love
> for SLUSHY SPRING SKIING? 
> 
> 							Todd S.

Well, I remember skiing some slopes in a resort next to Lentzerheide
(forgot the name) during Spring. The slope was facing southwest, it
had been a very warm day and I was already swetting. But although they
were about to close the lifts within the next hour I couldn't resist
to ski down the same slope for many more times: The moguls had softened,
at last at the surface, and I would sometimes get so wild that some of
the slush was catapulted from the ends of my skis into my own face!
It was some of the best mogul skiing I will remember, so you are not
alone with your CRAZE. (Oh, yes, you've got to be a little crazy!)
But I still like a nice powder layer of a few inches on top of moguls
better.

Frank
mueller@cs.fsu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Re: Helmets and Laws
From: hugh@fivegl.co.nz (Hugh Grierson)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 92 22:23:11 GMT
Reply-To: hugh@fivegl.co.nz (Hugh Grierson)
Organization: Task Management Ltd, Auckland, New Zealand

In article <1992Apr8.202421.25427@news.media.mit.edu> carltonj@media.mit.edu (Carlton J. Sparrell) writes:
>In article <daved.702757639@convex.convex.com> daved@convex.com (David Dorfman) writes:
>>I feel the most danger from other skiers hitting me at full velocity. 
>
>Hmmm...My understanding of the NFL is that while the helmets prevent
>certain head injuries, they are also rather efficient weapons.
...
>If one of the prime factors in skiier injuries is collisions with
>other skiiers, putting helmets on those skiiers will make them
>even more dangerous projectiles.  

Your logic is flawed.  NFL players _intend_ to hit each other.

-- 
-Hugh Grierson--hugh@fivegl.co.nz----------Go fast or go home----------------
-Task Management Ltd-Auckland-New Zealand-Ph:+64.9.5206109-Fax:+64.9.5206101-
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: morgan@xerox.jts (Morgan Jones )
Subject: Re: Skiing on ice...
Organization: /home/morgan/.organization
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 23:57:08 GMT

In article <martel.703168473@marvin> martel@marvin.mr.sintef.no (Paulo Martel) writes:

   I do I get a firm grip while turning on ice ? The steel edges of my skis
   do grip on the ice if I'm standing still, as long I tilt the skis enough.
   But it seems to me that the skis are lying too flat on the ice when I turn,
   causing sideways slide. This doesn't seem to be a problem for better skiers,
   they make fast, tight turns on ice with full grip. Any tips ?

IMHO, the best help in learning to ski on ice is learning to complete
your turns.  Most intermediate skiers get a little past the fall line
and then stop turning --- this makes their skis push snow and reduces
their speed.  Advanced skiers never stop turning; they turn as much
as they want and then immediately link into their next turn.  To slow
down, a more advanced skier will complete their turn to the point
where they are skiing uphill.

Intermediate skiers have problems on ice because when their skis stop
turning, they slip and lose their edge.  If you get a chance, get
yourself video'd (sp?) and see how far you get before your turns stop.


-- 
Morgan Jones           -    morgan@jts.com
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: poahbear@leland.Stanford.EDU (David G Lawson)
Subject: Kirkwood 04/12/92
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 92 01:51:28 GMT

  Skied Kirkwood for the first time yesterday. Nice mountain ... but we
thought $35 was a little steep (Blackcomb or Squaw it wasn't...).

  9:00 am - Broken cloud and gusty winds. Hard-packed but good coverage.
            Definitely enough snow to make it worth the trip. All lifts
            except for 7,8 and 9 open. Snow getting thin at the bottom
            but plenty on the best stuff at the top! Would consider
            a half day ticket next time though ... hard-packed + little
            grooming restricted our skiing for the first few hours. The
            Wall was on a "hard-snow hold" much of the morning. But ...
  11:00am - Everything softened up. Great runs off Solitude. Started to
            snow. Moguls ("like butter") everywhere ... great fun! Hardly
            anyone there as well!
   2:30pm - Called it a day as it began to snow heavily. Having listened
            to the snow report I only had spring gear!
  
   Reached Lake Tahoe and it was raining heavily. Must have been a wet day
  at Heavenly and Squaw. Raining (for the most part) all the way home on the
  50. Only a few skiing days left ... :(
Newsgroups: rec.skiing