HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: vjs@rhyolite.wpd.sgi.com (Vernon Schryver)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.misc
Subject: Re: Token Ring vs. Ethernet
Date: 22 Nov 92 03:28:49 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.  Mountain View, CA

In article <722284839snx@crynwr.com>, nelson@crynwr.com (Russell Nelson) writes:
> ...
>    >Something that might hurry up the decades long death of token ring
>    >might be higher speed LAN's.  The short term winner(s) in those wars
>    >might have some effect on the numbers of new ethernet and token ring
>    >networks.  I thinking of cable plants and hubs that can be used for
>    >for both high and low speed links to the desktop.
> 
>    Token-ring won't die.  Eventually, FDDI will be much more common
>    than E-net and TR.
> 
> Both Token-ring and FDDI will die.  Did you miss all the hoopla about
> 100Mbps Ethernet?  It was in all the papers.

Everything dies eventually.  Everything.  However, I don't think those
babbling that new buzz have a clue about what will kill FDDI.

Until a few months ago, I was wandering around agreeing with the then
current buzz that ATM will replace FDDI.  I'm not so sure today.  ATM
is not developing as fast as it must to be healthy in the LAN market.
I assume ATM interfaces that require host programmed I/O for each byte
are only temporary stupidities.  Something else about ATM as a LAN has
begun to smell bad, but I can't quite put my nose on it.
Maybe it's just post-buzz depression.

It will be a at least 6 to 18 months before more than a few dozen
people in the world have informed technical opinions on how whether
100MHz ethernet works under any interesting circumstances.  Until then,
almost all opinions about it are not even worth pubishing in the
netnews.  The wonderful stuff you hear now is green manure, intended to
fertilize standards committees and the budgets of those few people
actually working on it, or to demonstrate that the speaker is up on the
latest buzz.

100Mhz ethernet will remain a maybe-or-maybe-not until you can order
and have delivered within 4 weeks 100 MAC and support chips.  Until you
can build 100 prototypes, the hype is empty.

Sheesh!  100Mbit/sec FDDI-over copper is 2 or 3 years old, and the
current, almost standardized scheme is very different from the previous
proposals.


> ...
> I'm contracting with someone to write an FDDI packet driver.  The
> silly thing needs a 180Kb TSR to manage the FDDI connection.
> ...

That so many people in the 1990's can't program themselves out of an
elevator in less then 5 years with 500 people and 50MBytes of code says
little about anything technically interesting.

You don't need 180KByte of code to run an FDDI interface, but it does
require vastly more than makes good sense.   Send your thanks to ANSI.

Remember that before 100MHz ethernet is real, it will have to survive
that same Standards Process.  Remember how many decades ISDN and FDDI
have been plodding through committees.  Remember how many years 10BaseT
required.  By the time 100MHz ethernet is half standardized, 100
Mbit/sec will not be fast.


Vernon Schryver,  vjs@sgi.com
From: peter@palin.cc.monash.edu.au (Peter Hawkins)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.misc
Subject: REQ: MSDOS TCP/IP stack in ASM or Pascal
Date: 18 Nov 92 23:47:16 GMT
Organization: Monash University, Melb., Australia.

I need to interface a turbo pascal (V6) application to TCP/IP. The
application is heavily OOP & TVision etc so I pretty well am forced
to use turbo pascal. It's huge & re-writing in C is not practical.
I could use novell IPX & Banyan Vines, but I want it to be more
general if I can.

I got a copy of wattcp - a mixture of asm & C, and compiled it with
BCC, but unfortunately I couldn't link the C & pascal object files
without leaving unresolved externals - Borland's advice was that
interfacing C to Pascal will not work with any C code which is either
not-straightforward (in calling) or which utilises intrinsic libraries.
(They advised against my attempting it - and suggested I re-write the
TCP/IP stack in pascal!)

Before embarking on a major project such as re-writing the stack, or
giving up and using IPX and Vines, I thought I'd try and see if anyone
knew:

1)  What public domain / commercial TCP/IP stacks are there which might
    be callable from turbo C?

2)  Are there any stacks around written entirely in assembly or (joy of
    joys!) pascal?

Thanks in advance,

Peter

-- 
Peter Hawkins,
Assistant Lecturer, Computer Centre
Monash University, Australia
peter@palin.cc.monash.edu.au
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.misc
From: bjork@telebit.com (Steven Bjork)
Subject: Re: Token Ring vs. Ethernet
Organization: Telebit Corporation; Sunnyvale, CA, USA
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 15:30:19 GMT

In article <sige6ao@rhyolite.wpd.sgi.com>,
 vjs@rhyolite.wpd.sgi.com (Vernon Schryver) writes:

>Ethernet is far more common and not significantly worse than token
>ring.  Since token ring is not significantly better (it can be argued
>to be worse since it is so much more fragile), token ring is dead in
>the long run.  The universe does not tolerate competing, largely
>equivalent standards forever; eventually the less common one disappears.

IBM has realized this, and has tried to Forstall the Demise with
the so-called "tropic" token chip. The pc world has seen a sudden
influx of "cheap" (for token that is) ring cards.

--Steven
From: ian@ukpoit.co.uk (Ian Spare)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.misc
Subject: Routable NetBEUI
Date: 18 Nov 92 15:44:36 GMT
Organization: iT - The Information Technology Business Of The Post Office
NNTP-Posting-Host: george.ukpoit.co.uk


It is my understanding that the NetBEUI protocol is non-routable I have 
been told ( at a rumour level !! ) that it is intended to make it a routable
protocol, would anyone care to comment on this ??


-- 
Ian Spare , iT , Barker Lane , CHESTERFIELD , DERBYS , S40 1DY , GREAT BRITAIN
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      iT - The Information Technology Business Of The Post Office
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  In Tune With Technology ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: nelson@crynwr.com (Russell Nelson)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.misc
Subject: ENET<->ARCNET
Date: 20 Nov 92 18:22:40 GMT
Organization: Crynwr Software

In article <1992Nov18.161037.22362@sci34hub.sci.com> gary@sci34hub.sci.com writes:

   You can't covert Ethernet[TM] to ArcNET[TM].

Datapoint says that it's ARCNET, all caps.

-russ <nelson@crynwr.com> What canst *thou* say?
Crynwr Software           Crynwr Software sells packet driver support.
11 Grant St.              315-268-1925 Voice  |  LPF member - ask me about
Potsdam, NY 13676         315-268-9201 FAX    |  the harm software patents do.
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.misc
From: rfranken@mcs213d.cs.umr.edu (Richard Brett Frankenberger)
Subject: Re: Disk cache on PC workstation for Novell server drives???
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 16:35:25 GMT
Organization: University of Missouri - Rolla
Keywords: disk cache network

In article <rdempste.9.722354510@unpcs1.cs.unp.ac.za> rdempste@unpcs1.cs.unp.ac.za (Rob Dempster) writes:
>I am currently in the process of considering migrating to Windows 3.1
>I am running Windows 3.1 on a 25Mhz 80486SX with 8 MB of RAM and a 40 MB hard
>disk. I have a 2 MB SMARTDRV disk cache running and this makes the software
>that I run from the hard drive very snappy. Unfortunately I also have to pull
>some applications of a Novell LAN server and this really slows things down.
>I have tried some fixes such as putting my Borland C include files on the
>local hard drive. I would have put the library files there as well but don't 
>have the space. So at the moment it seems that I will have to get a larger 
>drive or find a driver similar to SMARTDRV that works with Novell file 
>server drives? I would be most interested to hear whether such a driver 
>exists or alternatively any other advice that would be useful.
>Please email the address given below. Thanks!!
>
>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>rdempste@unpcs1.cs.unp.ac.za          department of computer science
>dempster@unpsun1.cc.unp.ac.za         university of natal

Good luck ... If you find one, I would appreciate hearing about it ...
 
I doubt you'll have too much luck, though -- First, most disk caches cache at
the cluster level.  There is no such thing on server drives - they are
strictly file oriented - not block oriented (i.e. there is no such thing as an
INT 25 call on a server drive - where caching frequently takes place) ... so
it would require more than eliminating the check that locks out network drives 
in SMARTDRV.EXE - it would have to be redesigned to cache at the file level.
 
Also (although this shouldn't preclude a network cache - there are lots of other
programs that can be dangerous if used incorrectly), caching some network
drives would be harmful (i.e. a drive containing a database file that is
being continually updated by many users - how would file locks work - you
lock a record, then I go to read it - I shouldn't be able to do so, but I am
because its in my cache, so the server never gets asked) - but programs
(such as C or whatever) that aren't being changed should be able to be cached.
 
(Probably have to specifiy caching or not on the drive level).
 
       - Brett
From: thomasf@columbia.solbourne.com
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.misc
Subject: X.25 networks
Date: 18 Nov 1992 15:24:45 GMT
Organization: Solbourne Computer, Inc., Longmont, CO  USA
Distribution: world
Reply-To: thomasf@solbourne.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: columbia.solbourne.com


Don't know if this is the right group for this but...

Can anyone point me in the right direction on where I can get info
on X.25 networks?  I have heard rumors about a network similiar to the
internet on X.25 but don't really have any other info.
	Thanks,
		Tom...
From: richard_kogut@brown.edu (Richard M. Kogut)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.misc
Subject: Re: Token Ring vs. Ethernet
Date: 19 Nov 1992 21:39:27 GMT
Organization: Brown University Computing & Information Services
NNTP-Posting-Host: rich_kogut.cis.brown.edu

In article <1992Nov19.190924.12205@netcom.com> seifert@netcom.com (Rich Seifert) writes:
>From: seifert@netcom.com (Rich Seifert)
>Subject: Re: Token Ring vs. Ethernet
>Date: 19 Nov 92 19:09:24 GMT
>In article <1992Nov18.172211.10451@mccc.edu>, pjh@mccc.edu (P. J. Holsberg) writes:
>> If you were starting from scratch (in a college) and had to network 5
>> rooms of 30 MS-DOS/Windows PCs (using multiple servers), would you use
>> Ethernet or Token Ring, and why?
>> 
>> Background: a local resident who is an expert for a company that is very
>> big in PC networking says that the only reasons that so many campuses are
>> networked with Ethernet rather than Token Ring are that (a) Ethernet was
>> on the scene first and (b) until recently, Ethernet was less expensive.
>> He contends that Token Ring is the answer to the question in the first
>> paragraph in that it is now about the same cost as Ethernet, has larger
>> packets and is thus more efficient, and has about 60% higher throughput.
>> 
I agree with everyone recommending Ethernet. Note that with modern Ethernets,
you would use a 10BASE-T hub with star wiring which should give better
reliability than Token Ring. You could also use standard Level 3 UTP wiring
(although you should put in Level 5 if no wires are there now). If there were
multiple servers, you could also use Kalpana-style Ethernet switching to get
performance benefits unavailable with Token Ring, at a very low cost.
Richard M. Kogut,   Manager, Systems Services
                    Brown University Computing & Information Services
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.misc
From: schore@mccc.edu (Robin Schore)
Subject: Re: What is SLIP???
Organization: The College on the Other Side of US 1
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 20:07:30 GMT

In article <1992Nov12.155620.4017@wvnvms.wvnet.edu> dtg@wvnvms.wvnet.edu writes:
>Can anyone tell me what the program/tool SLIP is???  What does it do??? Who
>should I contact to find more about it???  
>
>My boss had heard about this and asked me to post.  We are currently looking
>into the communications world for our SPARC-based LAN for our new offices (off
>the project site, which has Internet connections already).
>
>Thanks.
>
>dave
>grasso@cards.com
From: gary@sci34hub.sci.com (Gary Heston)
Subject: Re: ENET<->ARCNET
Reply-To: gary@sci34hub.sci.com (Gary Heston)
Organization: SCI Systems, Inc., Huntsville, Al.
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 16:10:37 GMT

In article <1e92r5INNnni@rave.larc.nasa.gov> jka@windshear.larc.nasa.gov (J. Keith Alston) writes:
>Hi,

Hello!

>  I would like to connect an SCO unix box to an existing arcnet/novell
>  network. If this is at all possible the first thing I need is some
>  device that converts thick or thin e-net to arcnet(phone line).

You can't covert Ethernet[TM] to ArcNET[TM]. If you're running NetWare[TM]
3.11 then you can put an Ethernet[TM] card in the server and configure it
to do internal TCP/IP bridging, thereby allowing the ArcNET[TM] users to
access the SCO[TM] Unix[TM] host via a telnet program or other TCP/IP 
functions.

If you're running NetWare[TM] 2.x or earlier, I don't know of any way
other than replacing the ArcNET[TM] with Ethernet[TM].

>  If thats possible the next step would be to allow the sco box to
>  pass email back and forth between novell/cc:mail. Any help on
>  this would be greatly appreciated.

cc:Mail[TM] has available a SMTP gateway, but you'll find that an
inquiry in comp.sys.novell will get many recommendations that you
dump cc:Mail[TM] and replace it with Pegasus Mail, which is free,
works better, and has available a SMTP gateway that is also free. 
(The one from cc:Mail[TM] is about $2500.) This is what we did here.

(Hmmmm.... I think I won't bother with the [TM]s any more. There's 
just too many of them....  :-) )

-- 
Gary Heston    SCI Systems, Inc.  gary@sci34hub.sci.com   site admin
The Chairman of the Board and the CFO speak for SCI. I'm neither.
"Data sheet: HSN-3000 Nuclear Event Detector. The [NED] senses the gamma
radiation pulse [from a] nuclear weapon." As if we wouldn't notice...
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.misc
From: scoggin@snow-white.ee.udel.edu (John K Scoggin)
Subject: Re: Token Ring vs. Ethernet
Organization: Delmarva Power & Light Company, Newark
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 21:17:13 GMT

In article <1992Nov19.193651.21854@umr.edu> rfranken@mcs213f.cs.umr.edu (Richard Brett Frankenberger) writes:
>  Snip, snip, snip ...
>Bottom line,  You probably won't go wrong with either, but with token-ring, you
>won't have to worry about one user sticking a pin through the cable and downing
>the entire net.  (Not that that's a likely occurance, but it makes the point
>about token-ring's robustness).  Ethernet will likely be cheaper, however.
> 
>         - Brett   (rfranken@cs.umr.edu)

Most people in the Real World (tm) build ethernets with 10BaseT - stick a pin
in a TP cable and you loose one workstation ...

	- John

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
John K. Scoggin, Jr.			Email:   scoggin@udel.edu
Supervisor, Network Operations			 scoggin@delmarva.com
Delmarva Power & Light Co.		Voice:	 302-451-5200
P.O. Box 6066				Fax:	 302-451-5321
Newark, DE 19714-6066
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Your milage may vary.  Void where prohibited by law (or common sense).
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.misc,comp.dcom.servers,sci.engr,sci.electronics
From: kb7uv@panix.com (Andy Funk)
Subject: Re: Wireless communication
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 13:06:39 GMT
Organization: Panix, NYC

In <1992Nov18.193438.453@tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca> timk@tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca (Tim Kuehn) writes:

>I'm looking for a means to obtain data from remote sensors via 
>some wireless means such as radio. There will be one sensor per 
>point, with one central receiver. Data can be accepted via a 
>serial port from the central receiver into the system, most likely
>a PC of some kind.


><<<----+---------+-----+--------------+-----+---------------------------+-->>>
>    +   Tim Kuehn   +   TDK Consulting   +    (519)-888-0766
>    +   <><         +   Services         +    timk@tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca 
><<<----+---------+-----+--------------+-----+---------------------------+-->>>


One approach to your problem is known as packet radio, which is exactly
what you need -- digital data via radio.

You can find information on the hobby side of packet radio in
rec.radio.amateur.packet.

Several manufacturers make complete turn-key packet systems -- connect the
RS-232 cables and treat the "box" as an external modem, only the data is
transmitted by radio, not telephone.

I recommend this manufacturer:

PacComm Packet Radio systems, Inc.
4413 N. Hesperides St.
Tampa, FL  33614-7618
Voice: 813-874-2980
FAX:   813-872-8696
BBS:   813-874-3078

Internet:  76576.2003@compuserve.com



As I recall, PacComm's commercial units can respond to the "Hayes
Standard" AT Command Set, just like a modem.  This should help simplify
your project.

Good luck!

-Andy-
-- 
    Andrew Funk, KB7UV                     Internet: kb7uv@panix.com
    ENG Editor/Microwave                     Packet: kb7uv@kb7uv.#nli.ny.usa
    WCBS-TV Channel 2 News                      BBS: 718-956-7133
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.misc
From: jlt1@crosfield.co.uk (john tricker)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.misc,comp.dcom.lans.fddi
Subject: FDDI subnets in a WAN environment
Keywords: FDDI WAN
Date: 18 Nov 92 17:37:13 GMT
Organization: Crosfield Electronics, Hemel Hempstead, United Kingdom.

In the near future we will have several FDDI based subnets separated by large 
(>200km) distances. Each subnets traffic will be consist of high bandwidth, 
large, async, TCP file transfers and some background activity. Traffic between 
subnets will be as follows.

	Bandwidth  		10 MBytes/sec during file transfer
				< 1 MByte/sec at other times
	File size		6000 MBytes ( 10 mins duration )
	File frequence		1 or 2 transfers per hour.
	Acceptable latency	< 1 minute

We would like to link the subnets together to form one network cloud. Clearly 
neither the 'rent a low bandwidth line and use buffering' or the 'rent a high 
bandwidth line and waste most of it' solutions are cost effective. Can anyone 
suggest appropriate technologies, or products, for the support of this type of 
traffic ?
-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
#include <discliamer.std>  \_^o.  ->>>	jlt1@crosfield.co.uk	<<<-
--------------------------_ LL __------------------------------------------
From: vjs@rhyolite.wpd.sgi.com (Vernon Schryver)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.misc
Subject: Re: Token Ring vs. Ethernet
Date: 21 Nov 92 01:28:56 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.  Mountain View, CA

In article <1992Nov20.205654.23381@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>, barr@tramp.Colorado.EDU (BARR DOUG) writes:
> Can you connect Macintoshes to Token ring? Suns? Nexts? Silcon Graphics?
> RS6000's? Vaxen? Decstation 5000's ...? 

As time passes, all workstation vendors are coming out with token ring
interfaces.  Except for VAX's and perhaps Next and MAC's, I think all
of those in that list have token ring interfaces.

If the point is that ethernet interfaces are "native" to all of those
and "token ring" interfaces are second class, then it is valid.


> If Appletalk running over ethernet is ethertalk, is Appletalk runing over
> Token Ring Tokentalk?
> On a more serious note:
> I just tested an ethernet card with 10BaseT and 10Base2 ports, cost $79.00! 

Someone else has pointed to 10BaseT hubs at $60/port.

I think the cost of the silicon to build a good token ring interface is
a good fraction of $140.  That is cost to the manufacturer, not price
to the consumer.

Token Ring will be as dead as TP4 and DECNET Phase IV in another year
or two.  There will be people running Token Ring networks for decades,
just as there are still people using bisync after all these decades.
There will be people installing new TP4 and DECNET Phase IV
applications and Token Ring networks 5 years from now.  That
workstation vendors are designing new token ring hardware indicates no
more than the fact that many computer vendors continue to support
DECNET Phase IV and TP4.  That only shows that big enough corpses can
be revered by the bereaved and profitable to the morticians long after
they start smelling bad.


Does anyone think arcnet is healthy?


Vernon Schryver,  vjs@sgi.com
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.misc
From: rdempste@unpcs1.cs.unp.ac.za (Rob Dempster)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.misc
Subject: Disk cache on PC workstation for Novell server drives???
Keywords: disk cache network
Date: 21 Nov 92 14:01:50 GMT
Article-I.D.: unpcs1.rdempste.9.722354510
Organization: Dept. Computer Science, UNP
NNTP-Posting-Host: pc089.cc.unp.ac.za

I am currently in the process of considering migrating to Windows 3.1
I am running Windows 3.1 on a 25Mhz 80486SX with 8 MB of RAM and a 40 MB hard
disk. I have a 2 MB SMARTDRV disk cache running and this makes the software
that I run from the hard drive very snappy. Unfortunately I also have to pull
some applications of a Novell LAN server and this really slows things down.
I have tried some fixes such as putting my Borland C include files on the
local hard drive. I would have put the library files there as well but don't 
have the space. So at the moment it seems that I will have to get a larger 
drive or find a driver similar to SMARTDRV that works with Novell file 
server drives? I would be most interested to hear whether such a driver 
exists or alternatively any other advice that would be useful.
Please email the address given below. Thanks!!

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
rdempste@unpcs1.cs.unp.ac.za          department of computer science
dempster@unpsun1.cc.unp.ac.za         university of natal
                                      p o box 375
fax : +27 331 955599                  3200 pietermaritzburg
ph :  +27 331 955645/46/50            south africa
From: bob@comlab.gatech.edu (Bob Baggerman)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.misc
Subject: Re: Routable NetBEUI
Date: 19 Nov 92 15:14:08 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

Ian Spare writes:
>It is my understanding that the NetBEUI protocol is non-routable I have 
>been told ( at a rumour level !! ) that it is intended to make it a routable
>protocol, would anyone care to comment on this ??

That would surprise me a lot.  I guess my first question is "Why"?  If you
need something routable why not use a NetBIOS based on a routable protocol
like TCP/IP, XNS, OSI, IPX, or DECnet?  NetBEUI is small and fast.  I'd
prefer to keep it that way, minus the extra overhead of making it routable.

Bob

--
Bob Baggerman                         !  bob.baggerman@gtri.gatech.edu
Communications Laboratory             !  bob@comlab.gatech.edu
Georgia Tech Research Institute       !  qseclrb@prism.gatech.edu
Atlanta, GA  30332  USA               !  404-894-3525
From: liebgold@edison.seas.ucla.edu (Dan M. Liebgold)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.misc
Subject: Suggestions for Mac/PC lan?
Date: 16 Nov 92 19:40:50 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: SEASnet, University of California, Los Angeles


I need to put three pcs and a Mac IIci on an thicknet based LAN. Has
anyone worked with this type of configuration before? Any suggestions?

thanks...

dl
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dan Liebgold                  liebgold@seas.ucla.edu|"Gentleman! You
310 DeNeve Dr.       Good Things: Rush, Anime, Linux| can't fight in here!
LA, CA 90024          Bad Things:  TV, MS-DOS, AC/DC| This is the war room!"