From: xeno@iastate.edu (Gary L Snethen)
Subject: Re: English is easy to learn ?????
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Distribution: inet
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 15:29:45 GMT

In <920814070414_72627.2647_DHJ35-2@CompuServe.COM> 72627.2647@compuserve.com (Don HARLOW) writes:

>To: Janis Maria Cortese >INTERNET:cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu;
>Esperanto >INTERNET:esperanto@rand.org

>

>>All natural languages have irregularities; English isn't so bad on this.
>>It's worst characteristic is monumentally stupid spelling.

>Not so bad? Ah, Janis. English, a language with some 300 strong and 
>irregular verbs, two standard plural endings (in the spoken language) 
>and a host of non-standard ones derived from a variety of sources, a 
>...

>>And I'd rather not speak a language that classifies my mom as a female
>>father, thank you.

>That's not really the way an Esperanto speaker looks at it -- a "patrino" 
>remains a mother. But if you insist on looking at it that way, consider it 
>a tradeoff -- Esperanto also has "konkubo", a word lacking in English, 
>where only women can hold down that august and traditional household 
>position.

>(By the way, Esperanto makes fairly heavy use of something called 
>back-formation. I can't claim that "mother" doesn't derive from 
>"father" in Esperanto; but, like "konkubo" from "konkubino", the 
>much more common word "edzo" = husband _does_ derive from 
>"edzino" = wife. If "mother" is a "female father" in Esperanto, is 
>"husband" then a "desexed wife"?)

> ...Don Harlow...

I am very new to Esperanto, but am diligently learning it...

Regarding Janis' concern about the -in suffix:

I realize that 'in' is not truly a suffix, but a root in it's own right.
Thus, the word 'ina' for feminine, and 'ino' for female?  (I have not learned
these words, but due to the orthogonality of the language, I believe their
meanings would be fully understood even if they weren't used commonly).

The need for male-female symmetry in a language is well-founded.  True,
when I hear the word 'patrino,' I think 'mother' and not 'female father',
but if I were a young girl growing up learning Esperanto (as a first OR
second language), I might begin to develop a concept that women are
variations of men.  With my religeon and culture strengthening this
viewpoint, by the time I reached womanhood, I would have a built-in
apprehension that men (meaning males) are the basis of humanity, and
that women are somewhat 'decorative' variations...  Icing on the cake,
so to speak.

Prefixing the masculines with 'vir' could be just as bad, or even worse.
Now I am a 'man-parent' or a 'parent who is a female.' And virino becomes
a 'man who is a woman' hands-down.  This is aggrevated by the fact that
Esperanto makes strong use of word order to put significance and importance
on certain words within a sentence (usually the first words).

In fact, even if the prefix-suffix problem was reversed so that feminines
were prefixed, the problem would persist.  The lack of symmetry gives room
for some womens' doubts to fester and some mens' belief in their dominance
over women to strengthen.  So this language 'problem' is really only
a catalyst for the underlying problem of sexism.

Esperantists should understand this problem very well.  Esperanto was
intentionally designed so that no nation had an 'upper hand' or could
claim to have an 'upper hand' if they so desired.  Similar dymanics apply
to the sexes.

I was concerned about this issue when I began learning Esperanto, and I
asked my tutor if a solution had been proposed.  He told me that the
'suffix' '-icx' had been proposed to represent the masculine, but that it
was not standard yet, and its use would have to be explained in a footnote
if I intended to use it.  My understanding of the use of this suffix would
be to represent mother as 'patrino' and father as 'patricxo'.  'Patro' would
become 'parent.'

I think this is a wonderful solution, and I for one, plan to use it.
In addition to providing symmetry to the sexes, it supplies Esperanto with
a default neutral gender, which I feel is a positive step.

After all, why do we constantly feel the need to refer to all living things
as 'male' or 'female'?  I think everyone should examine that question for
him/her-self (yes, men and women alike).

In summary, Esperanto was created as a language of equality for all the
world.  If someone feels left out, their words should be listened to, and
Esperanto refined if need be.  None of us want the language problem to be
'solved' by hundreds of new 'international languages' being produced every
decade.  We believe in Esperanto, and if Esperanto has a flaw, we should
not be traditionalists and say "it's done...  it cannot be changed."
We should simply step forward, see the flaw, and correct it.  There is
no dictatorship deciding how we use Esperanto... it is up to us to
instill the change, and this can only be done through use.

La opinio de unu viro.     The opinion of one human being.


---Zino (Xeno)---

Xeno (Gary) Snethen, xeno@iastate.edu

Newsgroups: soc.culture.esperanto