HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cole@THEORY.phys.virginia.edu
Subject: Re: More strange circles on DEMOS
Reply-To: cole@THEORY.phys.virginia.edu
Organization: Dept. of Physics, University of Virginia
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 02:23:59 GMT

Maybe we are looking at different effects.  What I see is
a coarse jig jag in the longitudinal placement of the
terminator about every 15 deg. of latitude, like a sawtooth.
This seems to be a recent artifact, as I don't recall seeing
it last year.
From: ggiles@cie.uoregon.edu (Gregg Giles)
Newsgroups: sci.space.shuttle
Subject: Antigravity
Date: 27 Aug 92 02:19:33 GMT
Organization: University of Oregon Campus Information Exchange


   What sort of research is going on regarding antigravity? You know: the
ability to counteract the effect of gravity without using brute force. It
seems to me that the future is there. (With our government, however, we'll all
be dust before anything ever comes of it. Sad.)


-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gregg Giles (Dynamix, Inc.)                 BIX: ggiles 
All opinions expressed are my own.          Internet: ggiles@cie.uoregon.edu
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: sci.space.shuttle
From: jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Josh 'K' Hopkins)
Subject: Re: A new orbiter? (dont think so--was Re: National Space Plane)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 04:44:13 GMT

Henry proposed his dream space program, and I pointed out that Ariane 5 was
similar to the rocket he wanted. 

>Alas, it does not meet the specs by my lights. 

Fair enough.  I realized it wasn't quite what you had in mind, but I thought
I should point out that it was there. 

>For one thing, I don't
>consider anything with large solid boosters "man-rateable" :-). 

I'm skeptical myself, but NASA and ESA seem to disagree.

>if we let that one by, there are other problems.  It has the same big
>wart as Titan:  it is too large and too costly.  I didn't pick 5-10 tons
>lightly -- 20 is not what I asked for :-) 

What you want is an Atlas II series at a lower price.  I intentionally gave you
a little extra (well, okay, a factor of 2) because I didn't think you could 
get a crew vehicle and a tug on the same rocket with only 10 tons.  Or did
you word it "at the same time" and I misinterpreted that as requiring a single
rocket?

>-- and 40% less per kg than A4
>is still way, way too expensive.  And they're building exactly 0001 pads
>for it, which is a problem in many ways, including that surge capability
>I asked for:  I want to see three or four launches in one week, to launch
>a mission in several pieces, a rate Arianespace hasn't a prayer of reaching.

40% and one pad assume 8 launches a year -- and of course that development works
according to plan.  Double that and I bet you could increase both savings and
the number of pads.
Maybe we can both agree that Ariane 5 is the closest real-world hardware to 
what you want but is still sadly lacking.
-- 
Josh Hopkins                    Friends don't let friends derive drunk
		     j-hopkins@uiuc.edu
From: dpierce@sgimco.orlando.sgi.com (Dennis Pierce)
Newsgroups: sci.space.shuttle
Subject: KSC vs hurricanes
Date: 4 Sep 92 03:14:48 GMT
Reply-To: dpierce@sgimco.orlando.sgi.com (Dennis Pierce)
Organization: SGI


as I understand the storm tracks concerning FL, KSC is more or less
immune - can someone (like a KSC meteorologist) expand upon this - in
fact, I thought one reason for choosing KSC (aside from the geographics
of jutting in to the ocean and being close to the equator - you know,
normal launch mechanics type of considerations) was that no major
hurricane had hit the cape - sure, a few dance below and above, but
don't hit

I know, I know, immune just means the shark isn't hungry for your
tasty toes yet, but I just wanted to know if I really did hear
this or absorbed it from the ether in slumberland

thanks


Dennis Pierce, SGI, 900 Winderley Place, Ste 130, Maitland, FL 32751
email: dpierce@sgi.com    vmail: 8548              
tel  : 407.660.0073       late : 407.660.2789      
fax  : 407.660.8981       cell : 407.256.8447
From: lwall@netlabs.com (Larry Wall)
Newsgroups: sci.space.shuttle
Subject: Re: Still on the X-30
Date: 27 Aug 92 22:36:15 GMT
Organization: NetLabs, Inc.

In article <1992Aug27.021252.4459@nntp.uoregon.edu> ggiles@cie.uoregon.edu (Gregg Giles) writes:
: 
:    [re: SSTO minimal payload]
: 
:    Sure, the first version of such a vehicle would probably have a small
: payload capacity. But think about this: the Wright brothers couldn't take
: much with them, either. Now we have the C5 Galaxy. Think about it. :-)

THINK about it?  How depressing.  I don't like thinking about things
that will take 70 years to do, if your analogy holds...

Larry Wall
lwall@netlabs.com
From: keithley@apple.com (Craig Keithley)
Newsgroups: sci.space.shuttle
Subject: Re: ***QUESTION***  RE: Space Shuttles...
Date: 20 Aug 92 16:52:10 GMT
Followup-To: sci.space.shuttle
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.

In article <Lc9kPB6w165w@iowegia.uucp>, quest@iowegia.uucp (Steve J. Quest)
wrote:
> 
> 
>         Can anyone answer the question that has been burning a 
> hole in the back of my mind?  The question is:  Why is the flag 
> painted on the shuttle in mirror image?  I have seen this 
> represented on models, and in pictures.  This is quite puzzling.
> 
>         Please post any responses publicly here...........sq

Here's the reason I've heard:

For the same reason flags are reversed on (hmmm, left or right...) the
right hand side of planes.  Imagine the shuttle (or plane) as one big flag,
with the stars towards the front of the shuttle.  So looking at the
flag/shuttle from the left side, the flag looks right.  Stepping around to
the right side, the you would see the back side of the flag/shuttle, and it
would be reversed.

So just think of the shuttle as a darn thick flag.

Craig Keithley
Apple Computer, Inc.
keithley@apple.com
"Progess requires setbacks." - Henry Spencer
Newsgroups: sci.space.shuttle
From: ghasting@vdoe386.vak12ed.edu (George Hastings)
Subject: Re: To view or not to view ...
Organization: Virginia's Public Education Network (Richmond)
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 92 02:04:37 GMT

   The CLOSEST viewing area is (I think) the press area, right
next to the VAB where they stack the shuttles. It's just about
two miles from there to either pad 39A or 39B (a little farther
to 39B)
   The next closest site is a V.I.P. viewing area across the
lagoon, and I think it's about 2.5 miles. The NASA Causeway is
another viewing site, just a little more distant.
   From ANY of those sites, the Orbiter, ET, and SRBs look
incredibly far away and very small, even through binoculars.
You might think at this point, "JEEZ! It wasn't WORTH it,
coming all this way: I could have seen it on NASA SELECT
better, with its closeup TV cameras"
   You'd be WRONG! As the final countdown is underway, and each
step is announced on the loudspeakers, the tension builds. When
they get down to the famous "5-4-3-2-1-0, We have LIFTOFF!" It
is an experience you'll NEVER forget (or EVER expeience by
watching from anywhere else) 
   The huge cloud of white steam from the sound - suppression
flooding of the pad explodes from undet the shuttle, blocking
you view of it for a second or two, and you think, "OHMYGOD! Is
it O.K.?" The orange of the SRB flames lights up the steam
cloud from inside, and the shuttle erupts from the expanding
cloud on a pillar of flame that is SOOOOO BRIGHT your eyes
involuntarily squeeze themselves into a squint, and the shuttle
rises in dead silence for a few more seconds until the sound
finishes rushing across the remainin distance from the pad to
your viewing site.
   The ROAR of the SRBs and main engines smashes into you as a
shock wave, breaking across the area like a tidal wave of the
most incredible noise. It is so loud that you can bellow at the
top of your voice at somebody standing a few feet away from
you, and they will not be able to hear you. Your heart is
pounding and you realize that you're breathing rate has
doubled. The sub-aural frequencies of the rocket roar grab your
guts, and you can feel them trembling in harmony inside your
rib cage. Tears of intensity are probably streaming down your
face by now and you watch the sun-bright SRB flames cataput the
shuttle upward with surprising speed.
   If the day is clear, it is easy to see SRB SEParation 2
minutes and 7 seconds into the flight, and you can see the
flames fade and tail off as the SRBs begin their long drop back
to the ocean about a hundred miles offshore. Within a few
seconds your attentionis back of the dwindling bright spot of
twinkling light that marks the flames of the shuttle main
engines. 
   You'll strain to keep that fading spark in sight as long as
possible as it approaches the horizon, curving off and around
the Earth. Is it worth the drive?
   Yeah, I'd say so! It may be absolutely the most awesome, all
engulfing experience you can have out of bed!
-- 
Newsgroups: sci.space.shuttle
From: DPierce@world.std.com (Richard d Pierce)
Subject: Re: ***QUESTION***  RE: Space Shuttles...
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 02:09:33 GMT

In article <SHAFER.92Aug26094658@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov> shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Mary Shafer) writes:
>On 20 Aug 92 16:52:10 GMT, keithley@apple.com (Craig Keithley) said:
>
>Craig> So just think of the shuttle as a darn thick flag.
>
>Expensive, too.  But it probably can't be burned by protesters.
>

That's right, it can only be burned by the owners :-(

-- 
|                Dick Pierce                |
|    Loudspeaker and Software Consulting    |
| 17 Sartelle Street   Pepperell, MA  01463 |
|       (508) 433-9183 (Voice and FAX)      |
Newsgroups: sci.space.shuttle
From: henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: Antigravity
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 17:07:23 GMT
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology

In article <phfrom.266@nyx.uni-konstanz.de> phfrom@nyx.uni-konstanz.de (Hartmut Frommert) writes:
>>(Well, I lie a little bit...  General relativity says it is possible, but
>>only if your machinery can do fun things like accelerating large lumps
>>of neutronium [assuming you can make it and stabilize it somehow] to
>>substantial fractions of the speed of light in quite short times...
>
>Can you, please, give a reference (seriously) ? Since GR says gravity is 
>curvature -- what is anti-gravity ? anticurvature :-) ?

The only discussions I've seen of this have been Robert Forward's semi-
technical ones; I'm not enough of a physicist to follow the underlying
physics in detail.  Forward's book "Future Magic" is probably a good
place to start.

Roughly speaking, magnetic/electromagnetic phenomena come from electric
charges in motion.  Note that you get a rich variety of behavior which
you would not predict from studying motionless electric charges.  The
various odd GR phenomena -- everything from gravity waves to the Tipler
time machine -- come from gravitational "charges" in motion.  A simple
mental model of gravity as the curvature surrounding a motionless
object isn't adequate to explain them.

Unfortunately, it is hard to do experimental work on the GR oddities,
because gravity is such a feeble force that extremely large masses,
velocities, and accelerations are needed to produce measurable effects.
Even just measuring the static gravitational behavior of motionless 
masses is difficult, which is why the gravitational constant G is so
poorly known compared to most other physical constants.
-- 
There is nothing wrong with making      | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
mistakes, but... make *new* ones. -D.Sim|  henry@zoo.toronto.edu  utzoo!henry
From: cdibble@bonnie.ics.uci.edu (Clifford Thomas Dibble)
Subject: To view or not to view ...
Newsgroups: sci.space.shuttle
Organization: Univ. of Calif., Irvine, Info. & Computer Sci. Dept.
Date: 1 Sep 92 23:12:02 GMT
Distribution: usa

How far away is the viewing area from the shuttle's launch pad?
Is it worth going all the way to Florida to view a launch? I'd
appreciate any travel tips or advice. Thanks in advance.

Cliff Dibble
cdibble@bonnie.ics.uci.edu
Newsgroups: sci.space.shuttle
From: mperlman@nyx.cs.du.edu (Marshal "Airborne" Perlman)
Subject: Re: Weather Satellite pictures
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 17:40:01 GMT

awtron@strawber.princeton.edu (Andrew Tron) writes:

>In article <1992Aug26.165238.7418@aio.jsc.nasa.gov> tes@nomad.uucp (Thomas E. Smith [LORAL]) writes:
>>I've heard of an ftp site about a year ago that keeps satellite pictures from
>>the last 24 hours in gif format. Does any one know where this site is?
>>
>The site is vmd.cso.uiuc.edu.  Once you ftp to this site, cd to directory
>"wx" and set the mode to "binary".  The latest weather satellite gifs in
>high resolution are stored in the files "cvis.gif" and "cir.gif" (visual
>band and infrared band images, respectively.  Lower resolution images
>from the recent (i.e. 24 hr or so) past are stored in the files 
>"cvMMDDZZ.gif" and "ciMMDDZZ.gif" where MM is the month, DD is the date
>and ZZ is the hour in UTC.  Furthermore, composite surface analysis and
>radar images are stored in the files "saMMDDZZ.gif".


try this:


#! /bin/sh

host=vmd.cso.uiuc.edu
dir=wx
tmp=/tmp/sa$$
trap "rm -f $tmp" 1 2 3 15

ftp -niv $host >$tmp <<!
user anonymous
cd $dir
dir SA*.GIF
quit
!

file=`awk '$2=="GIF" {f=$1} END {print f".GIF"}' $tmp`
lfile=`echo $file | tr A-Z a-z`

if [ -f $lfile ] ; then
	echo $lfile: already exists
	exit 1
fi

ftp -ni $host <<!
user anonymous
cd $dir
binary
get $file $lfile
quit
!

echo $lfile: copied

rm $tmp
exit
--
Generic Signature:
Marshal Perlman - Huntington Beach - California - USA - Earth - Milky Way
yaW ykliM - htraE - ASU - ainrofilaC - hcaeB notgnitnuH - namlreP lahsraM
                                                        :erutangiS cireneG
From: Aaron.Mahnken@f101.n207.z1.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: sci.space.shuttle
Subject: To view or not to view ..
X-Sender: newtout 0.02 Aug 21 1992
Date: 03 Sep 92  20:13:00

===========================================================================
 BBS: The Diamond Bar BBS
Date: 09-01-92 (15:12)             Number: 106 From: CLIFFORD THOMAS DIBBLE   
    Refer#: NONE
  To: ALL                           Recvd: NO Subj: TO VIEW OR NOT TO VIEW .. 
     Conf: (368) Space Shut
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
CTD>Organization: Univ. of Calif., Irvine, Info. & Computer Sci. Dept.
CTD>From: cdibble@bonnie.ics.uci.edu (Clifford Thomas Dibble)
CTD>Message-ID: 2AA3F8C2.16642@ics.uci.edu
CTD>Newsgroups: sci.space.shuttle

CTD>How far away is the viewing area from the shuttle's launch pad?
CTD>Is it worth going all the way to Florida to view a launch? I'd
CTD>appreciate any travel tips or advice. Thanks in advance.

If you have a dish (or know someone with one) F2:05 and F2:13 are NASA Select 
TV channels.  13 gives great coverage of the shuttle taking off and landing.  
05 shows what's going on inside the shuttle (if the cameras on).  There's some 
neat things to see.  It's worth it to watch it off a dish at least once
because you don't see those angles on TV (at least where I live).  It's not
just a wide shot of the shuttle taking off.

--- DB 1.38/003346
From: ggiles@cie.uoregon.edu (Gregg Giles)
Newsgroups: sci.space.shuttle
Subject: Re: Still on the X-30
Date: 27 Aug 92 02:12:52 GMT
Organization: University of Oregon Campus Information Exchange


   [re: SSTO minimal payload]

   Sure, the first version of such a vehicle would probably have a small
payload capacity. But think about this: the Wright brothers couldn't take
much with them, either. Now we have the C5 Galaxy. Think about it. :-)


-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gregg Giles (Dynamix, Inc.)                 BIX: ggiles 
All opinions expressed are my own.          Internet: ggiles@cie.uoregon.edu
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: sci.space.shuttle
From: kcarroll@zoo.toronto.edu (Kieran A. Carroll)
Subject: Re: How are station workers getting paid?
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 13:56:03 GMT
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology

In article <1992Aug24.184107.6285@nrcnet0.nrc.ca> sharma@nrcphy1.phy.nrc.ca (Rohit Sharma) writes:
>  Anybody know of the Canadian Space Agency's part in Freedom ?  I heard
>that the CSA was collaborating with the Europoeans (ESA) for the Freedom
>space station.  Will appreciate any details on the CSA-ESA contribution.

I recently received a nice booklet in the mail from the Canadian Space
Agency, titled ``Partenership In Space---An Introduction to Canada's
Special Relationship with the European Space Agency.'' It was sent 
to me by:

Michel Giroux
Director, External Relations
Canadian Space Agency
500 Rene-Levesque Boulevard West
Montreal, Quebec
Canada  H2Z 1Z7

Canada is the only non-European country, apparently, to have
signed an ``Agreement for Close Cooperation with the ESA''.
While Canada and ESA are collaborating with ESA on the SSF project
only to the extent that we are also collaborating with NASA in the
US and NASDA in Japan, we have worked more directly together on 
several large projects. these include:

o the Olympus communications satellite. SPAR Aerospace built the spacecraft's
  large solar arrays under contract to British Aerospace. They also built
  ``some of the commuincations equipment'', and ``handled'' the final
  assembly, integration and testing of the s/c at the David Florida
  Labs in Ottawa. Com Dev, and Ontario company, designed and built
  on-board microwave components (as they do for most com-sats built
  these days).
o the ERS-1 synthetic-aperture radar earth resources satellite. 
  MDA, a Vancouver company, was contracted to design and build the
  ground segment for this spacecraft, a particularly challenging
  task given the flexible nature of this s/c's operations (experience
  that is now beoing put to use in developing the ground segment
  for Canada's Radarsat satellite).
o Canada is also contributing to the carry-on program, ERS-2.

These are the main currently-active programs. Several past
programs were not mentioned; several up-coming ones are alluded to
in the booklet.
-- 

     Kieran A. Carroll @ U of Toronto Aerospace Institute
     uunet!attcan!utzoo!kcarroll kcarroll@zoo.toronto.edu
Newsgroups: sci.space.shuttle
Subject: Re: New NASA logo?
From: ptsyck@miavx2.ham.muohio.edu
Date: 2 Sep 92 01:51:54 EDT
Organization: Miami University, Hamilton campus

Where can I get gifs of the Nasa logos and mission patches???

E-Mail me please, I don't read this group all the time.


Thanks in advance,

Patrick Syck
ptsyck@miavx2.ham.muohio.edu
From: gascan@dcst16.dc (Bill Gascoyne)
Newsgroups: sci.space.shuttle
Subject: Re: Antigravity
Date: 27 Aug 92 16:02:15 GMT
Reply-To: gascan@dcst16.dc
Organization: LSI Logic Corporation

I think they're doing antigravity research at the same place where they're doing
faster-than-light research: Paramount Studios, home of Star Trek.
---
1. Bill Gascoyne
Newsgroups: sci.space.shuttle,talk.politics.space
From: jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Josh 'K' Hopkins)
Subject: Re: hurricane andrew
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 00:39:44 GMT

pettengi@ial3.jsc.nasa.gov (James B. Pettengill) writes:

>With all the talk of the damage in south florida,
>what would the consenquences have been had andrew made
>land fall 200 miles to the north?

>What kind of damage would the cape have sustained?
>I'm guessing the pad would have made it through alright,
>but what about the VAB, OPF, and other important buildings.

I know for a fact that the newest Titan complex is designed to be hurricane 
proof.  My guess is that most of the other buildings would survive as well.

>Say for the sake of argument, the cape got toasted.
>1 orbiter destroyed, one flooded (destroyed ?), and one repairable within six months,
>and one unscathed.  VAB with extensive damage, launch control (with all
>its glass windows smashed, (whew not a pretty picture). Let's not
>forget the 18' storm surge. Would most of the bunkers be flooded?

>Would this cripple the space program?

Well, you've just hypothetically destroyed half the orbiters and left the other
half damaged and without facilities.  I think "cripple" might describe the 
situation accurately.

>Imagine the bill to rebuild a toasted cape.
>20 billion looks like pocket change.

Actually, you could do it for much less than that, valuing new orbiters at 2
billion a piece and remebering that launch complexes aren't that expensive.
Besides, any natural disaster that does that much damage to KSC is going to 
cause incredible damage to the rest of Florida.  KSC probably wouldn't even
be the biggest expense.



> 
-- 
Josh Hopkins           "If you are sitting in an exit row and you cannot read
                       this card or cannot see well enough to follow these
		       instructions, please tell a crew member."
j-hopkins@uiuc.edu                       -United Airlines safety instructions
From: shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Mary Shafer)
Newsgroups: sci.space.shuttle
Subject: Re: National Space Plane
Date: 15 Aug 92 01:58:40 GMT
Organization: NASA Dryden, Edwards, Cal.

On 14 Aug 92 02:14:11 GMT, ggiles@cie.uoregon.edu (Gregg Giles) said:

>    Assuming all goes well, the National Space Plane (NSP) should replace the
> current shuttles (Columbia class). How is the progress of these craft coming
> along? I was pretty impressed with the technology which must be developed
> for it. Hot stuff. (Or at least it will be in orbit.) <Grin>

You'll get a lot further in your search if you use the correct
name.  It's the National AeroSpace Plane, or NASP.

>    Are there any NASA anonynmous ftp sites that might have such info?

I would be surprised if there's any real information available to the
public.  Almost all the NASP material I deal with is at least ITAR or
FEDD or NOFORN, and much of it is SECRET.

At the 1990 NASP meeting, ours was one of the very few unclassified
papers.

Acronym city:
ITAR    International Trade in Arms Regulations
FEDD    For Early Domestic Dissemination
NOFORN  NO FOReigN access

--
Mary Shafer  DoD #0362 KotFR NASA Dryden Flight Research Facility, Edwards, CA
shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov                    Of course I don't speak for NASA
 "There's no kill like a guns kill." LCDR "Hoser" Satrapa, gunnery instructor
                       "A kill is a kill."  Anonymous

--
Newsgroups: sci.space.shuttle
From: root@fincomp.raidernet.com (Neal McClain)
Subject: Re: To view or not to view ...
Organization: Financial Computers Corp., Murfreesboro, TN
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1992 16:34:09 GMT

In <2AA3F8C2.16642@ics.uci.edu> cdibble@bonnie.ics.uci.edu (Clifford Thomas Dibble) writes:

>How far away is the viewing area from the shuttle's launch pad?
>Is it worth going all the way to Florida to view a launch? I'd
>appreciate any travel tips or advice. Thanks in advance.

I saw a night launch from New Smyrna Beach which is about 25 miles
from the cape.  It was without a doubt the most awesome display of
power and light I've ever seen (noisy, too).  I can't imagine what
it would have been like from only a few miles away.

By all means, go watch.


Neal McClain               | Beam me up Scottie, there's no intelligent 
Murfreesboro, Tn           | life down here!   
root@fincomp.raidernet.com | uunet!mjbtn!fincomp!root


Newsgroups: sci.space.shuttle