HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: sci.engr
Subject: Cad/Cam
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 18:32:00 -0500

  Does anyone know of a good shareware CAD/CAM program??  What I want to
  use it for, is a visual representation of some ideas, in a three
  dimensional space.. So it'll need to be able to have text /
  flexibility of use.. I want to use it sort of like flow charts, but
  nothing like them..<grin>  I also don't have internet /usenet access
  (I know, BUMMER! no local access!) so I'll need to get it from a
  gateway to from FidoNet<>Internet.. Or just the name of it and I'll
  look for it by myself..

  If someone knows an anoymous internet modem call in, I'll use it if I
  have to..

<All sugestions will be read, not all will be replied to.>

Thanks.
<Chad.Armstrong@f52.n357.z1.fidonet.org>

... A pedestrian hit me and went under my car.
  Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 

 * Origin: Osten Ard *phantomize@14.4k* (503)258-3612 (1:357/52)
From: landvogt@cs.tu-berlin.de (Walter Landvogt)
Newsgroups: sci.engr
Subject: simulation of ferromagnetic behavior
Date: 21 Jan 1993 08:33:49 GMT
Organization: Technical University of Berlin, Germany
Distribution: sci
NNTP-Posting-Host: morgen.cs.tu-berlin.de
Summary: ask for advice
Keywords: ferromagnetism, simulation


Better late than never:

   A happy new year to all of you!

Has anybody any experience in simulating the magnetic behavior of
ferromagnetic material in magnetic fields?

MacNeal-Schwendler Corporation offers an analysis system (MSC/EMACS).
- Who works with this system?
- Are there other systems on the market?
- Which are the pros and cons of those systems?

In particular, I'm interested in modelling ferromagnetic properties, so
- How does the hysteresis loop pass into the simulation system?
- How do they deal the shape dependency of the magnetization curve?

I would be thank you for any information which puts me on the right
track.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dipl.-Phys. Henry Zander, IPK-Berlin    | email: henry.zander@ipk.fhg.de
Pascalstr. 8-9, 1000 Berlin 10, Germany | phone: ++49 +30/39006-174
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: mt90dac@brunel.ac.uk (Del Cotter)
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology
Subject: Re: Enabling Technology and the Origins of War
Date: 21 Jan 93 13:45:21 GMT
Organization: Brunel University, West London, UK

In article <C154D4.4Lr@well.sf.ca.us> dchapman@well.sf.ca.us (Dave Chapman) writes:
>   The idea of "Enabling Technology" is that warfare was not
>practiced before this time because some necessary factor was
>missing.  Bronze swords are often mentioned, with the idea that
>until weapons technology had advanced far enough, war was too
>risky for the aggressor.
[...]
>   I no longer believe this, and am left with several questions:
>If bronze technology did not enable war, what technology did?
>If it was not a technological factor, was it social or economic?
>How does the American or Polynesian experience fit in?  Both in
>Polynesia and Central America, warlike, socially stratified
>cultures emerged, with only Neolithic technology.

Hmm.  Without wanting to start a semantics argument, I think we want to
find a definition of war which excludes bands of young males going out
with intent to kill or maim other such bands.  Chimps do this, as do
many human cultures past and present, including our own football
supporters.

>   My current suspicion is that the pre-war Neolithic period was
>inherently limited, and that once the population density grew to
>sufficient numbers, the warrior's life became more attractive
>than the farmer's.

How about this?  'War is a conflict between two communities characterised
by the intention of at least one party to despoil or destroy the home of
the other.'

So the events described in the Tain bo Culaigne do not count as a war, but
those in the Iliad do.

>   I also suspect that the wheel had more impact than the sword,
>since it permitted large-scale nomadic cultures to arise.

Fair enough.  You might want to ask this question on sci.anthropology, but
beware of temper tantrums!

-- 
 ',' ' ',','  |                                                  |  ',' ' ',','
   ', ,','    |       Del Cotter       mt90dac@brunel.ac.uk      |    ', ,','  
     ','      |                                                  |      ','    
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology
From: user@computer.uio.no (PC Jorgensen)
Subject: Re: Minoan Scripts
Followup-To: sci.archaeology
Organization: UiO
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 03:42:23 GMT

In article <C0tEED.Jsq@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, strzaskoma@news.cso.uiuc.edu
wrote:
"The Phaistos disk is written in pre-Linear A hieroglyphics which no one in
their right mind claims to be able to decipher at all."


Interesting to read this, because recent events here in Norway seem to 
confirm your conclusion... One and a half year ago, Kjell Aartun, a
Norwegian University stipendiate, who originally is a theologist and has
done research
on Ugaritic and sundry other semitic languages, went to the mass media,
claiming to have read the Phaistos disk, and being able to read Linear A as
well. 

I myself was rather sceptical (please note, this is not my academic field
at all, I just happen to like reading about ancient peoples), partly
because 
a lot of the statements in the newpaper articles seemed a bit odd. My 
scepticism grew when one heard nearly nothing from Aartun - until this
month.

Unfortunately, Aartun seems a 'crank', or rather, a 'rogue professor' (the
term is from Stephen Williams' _Fantastic Archaeology_). He now just not
only
understands Linear A, but also our    r u n e s t o n e s   better than
anyone 
else (he's pariculary interested in the oldest, from ca. 500 AD). These are
full off Linear A signs and hieroglyphics. Both the Phaistos disk and the
so-called Tune stone has fertility cult ritual written on it. Aartun also
sees
semitic language influence in the carvings (well, the newspaper articles
aren't that clear).

This month 5 quite large pieces about this theory have been published in
a tabloid which has cultural aspirations as well. Aartun has been severely
critised by a James E. Knirk, who holds an important post at the so-called
Rune Archive at the University Collection of Antiques.

the bottom-line is, however, that Aartun's book has been accepted by a
very respectable German publishing house. So one might wonder whether his
less fantastic claims could have something for them...

But I remain very much the sceptic...

  

--------------

P C Jorgensen
Graduate student (Russian, Slavic linguistics)
Department of East European and Oriental Studies
University of Oslo
Norway
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology
From: user@computer.uio.no (PC Jorgensen)
Subject: Re: Minoan Scripts
Followup-To: sci.archaeology
Organization: UiO
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 03:57:53 GMT

In article <C0tEED.Jsq@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, strzaskoma@news.cso.uiuc.edu
wrote:
"The Phaistos disk is written in pre-Linear A hieroglyphics which no one in
their right mind claims to be able to decipher at all."


Interesting to read this, because recent events here in Norway seem to 
confirm your conclusion... One and a half year ago, Kjell Aartun, a
Norwegian University stipendiate, who originally is a theologist and has
done research
on Ugaritic and sundry other semitic languages, went to the mass media,
claiming to have read the Phaistos disk, and being able to read Linear A as
well. 

I myself was rather sceptical (please note, this is not my academic field
at all, I just happen to like reading about ancient peoples), partly
because 
a lot of the statements in the newspaper articles seemed a bit odd. My 
scepticism grew when one heard nearly nothing from Aartun - until this
month.

Unfortunately, Aartun seems a 'crank', or rather, a 'rogue professor' (the
term is from Stephen Williams' _Fantastic Archaeology_). He now just not
only
understands Linear A, but also our    r u n e s t o n e s   better than
anyone 
else (he's particulary interested in the oldest, from ca. 500 AD). These
are
full off Linear A signs and hieroglyphics. Both the Phaistos disk and the
so-called Tune stone has fertility cult ritual written on it. Aartun also
sees
semitic language influence in the carvings (well, the newspaper articles
aren't that clear here).

This month 5 quite large pieces about this theory have been published in
a tabloid which has cultural aspirations as well. Aartun has been severely
critised by a James E. Knirk, who holds an important post at the so-called
Rune Archive at the University Collection of Antiques.

the bottom-line is, however, that Aartun's book has been accepted by a
very respectable German publishing house. So one might wonder whether his
less fantastic claims could have something for them...

But I remain very much the sceptic...

  

--------------

P C Jorgensen
Graduate student (Russian, Slavic linguistics)
Department of East European and Oriental Studies
University of Oslo
Norway
From: regthb@crim.pinetree.org (Richard Gerrard)
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology
Subject: Russian Museum System
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 08:52:58 EST
Organization: CRIM Working Group, ICOMOS Canada

I am trying to locate information or an internet address
for information on the Russian museums system.  I am 
specifically interested in how the post-soviet museums
relate to the academies.

We are trying to get a feel for the current state of affairs
prior to making inquiries regarding collections [specifically
those held at the Peter the Great Museum (Ethnology and
Anthropology Museum) in St. Petersburg].

Richard Gerrard
Rerar, Collections Management
Toronto Historical Board

regthb@crim.pinetree.org
v: 416/392-6913
f: 416/392-0115
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology
From: capn@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Steve Thurston)
Subject: Re: Minoan Scripts
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 15:36:22 GMT

In article <user-270193042816@hf-mac16.uio.no> user@computer.uio.no (PC Jorgensen) writes:

>on Ugaritic and sundry other semitic languages, went to the mass media,
>claiming to have read the Phaistos disk, and being able to read Linear A as
>well. 

The problem with things like the Phaistos disk and Linear A is quantity.  Even
if the disk has already been correctly translated, that doesn't mean that we 
know that it's correct.  You need a large number of texts to be certain of a 
language, and if you don't have such a corpus then you're SOL.  The thing 
about languages is that they are cultural phenomena, and thus what sounds
perfectly reasonable to someone from the ancient past may sound really weird 
to us.  I'm having this problem with Akkadian right now.  They have ways of
saying certain things that just sound downright funny to me, but made perfect
sense to them.


-- 
Steve Thurston
capn@mentor.cc.purdue.edu
From: rachel@tartarus.uwa.edu.au (Rachel Thomas)
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology
Subject: searching for papers
Date: 26 Jan 1993 03:10:31 GMT
Organization: The University of Western Australia
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: tartarus.uwa.edu.au
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

I am new to news and am interested in recieving any papers available at
FTP sites..Any help?

Rachel Thomas

Newsgroups: sci.archaeology
From: user@computer.uio.no (PC Jorgensen)
Subject: Re: Minoan scripts
Followup-To: sci.archaeology
Organization: UiO
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 04:01:25 GMT

In article <C0tEED.Jsq@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, strzaskoma@news.cso.uiuc.edu
wrote:
"The Phaistos disk is written in pre-Linear A hieroglyphics which no one in
their right mind claims to be able to decipher at all."


Interesting to read this, because recent events here in Norway seem to 
confirm your conclusion... One and a half year ago, Kjell Aartun, a
Norwegian University stipendiate, who originally is a theologist and has
done research
on Ugaritic and sundry other semitic languages, went to the mass media,
claiming to have read the Phaistos disk, and being able to read Linear A as
well. 

I myself was rather sceptical (please note, this is not my academic field
at all, I just happen to like reading about ancient peoples), partly
because 
a lot of the statements in the newspaper articles seemed a bit odd. My 
scepticism grew when one heard nearly nothing from Aartun - until this
month.

Unfortunately, Aartun seems a 'crank', or rather, a 'rogue professor' (the
term is from Stephen Williams' _Fantastic Archaeology_). He now just not
only
understands Linear A, but also our    r u n e s t o n e s   better than
anyone 
else (he's particulary interested in the oldest, from ca. 500 AD). These
are
full off Linear A signs and hieroglyphics. Both the Phaistos disk and the
so-called Tune stone has fertility cult ritual written on it. Aartun also
sees
semitic language influence in the carvings (well, the newspaper articles
aren't that clear here).

This month 5 quite large pieces about this theory have been published in
a tabloid which has cultural aspirations as well. Aartun has been severely
critised by a James E. Knirk, who holds an important post at the so-called
Rune Archive at the University Collection of Antiques.

the bottom-line is, however, that Aartun's book has been accepted by a
very respectable German publishing house. So one might wonder whether his
less fantastic claims could have something for them...

But I remain very much the sceptic...

  

--------------

P C Jorgensen
Graduate student (Russian, Slavic linguistics)
Department of East European and Oriental Studies
University of Oslo
Norway
From: hbw@xanadu.bu.edu (Howard Wellman)
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology
Subject: Re: Metal working in Mesoamerica
Keywords: mesoamerica, metallurgy
Date: 28 Jan 93 03:20:14 GMT
Organization: Boston University Dept of Archaeology


	For west-central Mexico (Classic) try Dorothy Hosler's 1986 PhD thesis
from UC Santa Barbara.  A previous poster was right, there was little metal
work in the Maya, perhaps some coldworking.  Andean civilizations developed
quite a bit of metallurgy, check under Shimada in Archaeology magazine, 
Friedman et al. in American Antiquity.  
	(sorry, my bibliography is at home, otherwise I could give you
better references.)  
	In general, there was no New World smelting or casting until ca. 900 AD
in the Andes.  Everyone north of that was using native metals (copper, silver,
gold) until the Mexicans started smelting copper ca 1100 - 1400 AD.  North
Americans relied on native copper and silver exclusively, very little goldwork
north of Mexico.
	Another source, Patterson, 1971, American Antiquity.  That'll give you
another bibliography to work from.  Also check Clark and Purdy, 1982, title 
something like _The First Fire-based Technologies.  
	Email me later for a more complete bibliography.  But by all means go 
check your library.  There are lots of sources if you just look.  That's how 
I found all the stuff I'm using now.

H
From: marshal@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Timothy Pat Marshall)
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology
Subject: Metal working in Mesoamerica
Summary: Metal working
Date: 27 Jan 93 05:44:02 GMT
Article-I.D.: matt.1k6hl2INN2br
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: matt.ksu.ksu.edu

I was wondering anyone could suggest some recent sources, or any 
sources for that matter on metal working in Mesoamerica.  I am
doing research for a possible term paper and any assistance
would be grealty appreciated.
                                   TIM
From: sclera@milori.ccit.arizona.edu
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology
Subject: Re: Enabling Technology and the Origin of Sushi
Summary: War is Smell
Date: 21 Jan 93 17:22:21 GMT
Reply-To: bob@sclera.physics.arizona.edu
Distribution: world,local
Nntp-Posting-User: sclera

Concerning the "origins of war", try the book of the same name by A. Ferrill.

C.S. Cornuelle
bob@sclera.physics.arizona.edu
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology,rec.arts.books,alt.mythology,rec.arts.fine,sci.classics
From: amnell@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Marko Amnell)
Subject: Re: Nut, Egyptian sky goddess
Keywords: The Mummy
Organization: University of Helsinki
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 14:16:49 GMT

Matthew Rosenblatt writes in sci.classics:

	Mike Morris writes:

		[Professor E. A. Wallis] Budge also gives a description of
		the Egyptian heaven (page cii), where we find:

	          Nut, the sky goddess, was the wife of Seb, the earth
	          god, from whose embrace she was separated by Shu, the
	          god of the air; when this separation was effected, earth,
	          air, and sky came into being. Signor Lanzone (_Dizionario
	          di Mitologia Egizia_) has collected a number of illustrations
	          of this event from papyri and other documents, wherein we
	          have Seb lying on the ground, and Shu uplifting Nut with
	          his outstretched hands. The feet of the goddess rested on
	          the east, and her hands on the west; this is shown by the
	          scene wherein Shu is accompanied by two females who have
	          on their heads ``east'' and ``west'' respectively. 

		And that's about all I have readily to hand on Nut. My memory
		has it that there may be a Dover edition of a work by Budge
		on Egyptian mythology that would probably tell you more,
		[Mike Morris]

	The illustration that Mr. Morris cites may also be found in Prof.
	Budge's book, _The Mummy_, reprinted by Causeway Books (95 Madison
	Avenue, New York, New York 10016, U.S.A.) in 1974.  It is on page
	292.  Nut is wearing nothing but bracelets and anklets and possibly
	a headdress.  The thumb and fingers of Seb's right hand are grasping
	one of Nut's nipples.  The fingers of his left hand are touching
	her groin.  Nut's torso is covered with stars.

	On the facing page, Nut is illustrated in a standing posture,
	which Prof. Budge describes:

	    "Nut (hieroglyph omitted), the sky, the wife of Seb, and
	  mother of Osiris, Isis, Set, Nephthys, Anubis, Shu, and Tefnut,
	  was represented by a woman having a vase of water (hieroglyph 
	  omitted) on her head, and holding (ankh, hieroglyph omitted)
	  in her right hand and (another hieroglyph omitted) in her left.
	  She was painted on the outside of coffins, and was supposed
	  to protect with her wings the deceased within."

	There are also paperback reprints of Prof. Budge's two-volume set,
	_Osiris_.  Nut is mentioned a number of times in this set.

Thanks, these detailed descriptions of Nut are wonderful!  I'm giving 
Rosanne printouts of the articles in this thread, so she can hunt down the
references.

-- 
Marko Amnell
amnell@klaava.helsinki.fi
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology,rec.arts.books,alt.mythology,rec.arts.fine,sci.classics
From: amnell@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Marko Amnell)
Subject: Re: Nut, Egyptian sky goddess
Keywords: Judgment executed against Egyptian gods -- film at 1.
Organization: University of Helsinki
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 09:53:32 GMT

Matthew Rosenblatt writes:

	Marko Amnell writes:
		
		I'm looking for references on Nut, the ancient Egyptian sky
		goddess. . . . I'm specifically interested in the details
		of Nut's physical appearance.  I already know, eg. that she
		is portrayed in the nude.  I'm asking this for a friend who
		is working on a sculpture of Nut, and she would like to be
		as accurate as possible in her depiction.  [Marko Amnell]

	I was happy to provide Marko Amnell and his friend, Rosanne, with
	whatever information I could find on this subject in Professor 
	E. A. Wallis Budge's book, _The Mummy_.  But I know that Mr. Amnell
	is a student of the Scriptures, and so I would like to call his
	attention to two sections of the Book of Exodus:

	    "For I will go through the land of Egypt in that night,
	  and will smite all the first-born in the land of Egypt,
	  both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I
	  will execute judgments; I am the L-RD."  Exodus (2 Moses) 12:12

	Nut, along with her husband Seb and her assorted offspring Osiris,
	Isis, Set (Typhon), Nephthys, Anubis, Shu, and Tefnut, are among
	the "gods of Egypt" upon whom the L-RD executed judgment during
	the Tenth Plague.  It should be noted that no one believes in
	these Egyptian gods any more, and no one worships them, even
	though there are still people who believe in Krishna, Rama,
	Vishnu, and Shiva.

	    "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, nor any
	  manner of likeness, of any thing that is in heaven above,
	  or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water
	  under the earth; thou shalt not bow down unto them, nor
	  serve them . . ."  Exodus (2 Moses) 20:4-5a.

	Among the People of the Book, prohibition against graven images 
	of items in the earth, sea, or sky has been followed most strictly 
	by Muslims, and least strictly by Christians, with Jews somewhere
	in between.  I was recently advised that a wooden representation
	I had made of the New Moon (essentially a black disk with a thin 
	silver sliver along one edge) would have to be withdrawn and replaced
	because it runs afoul of a "black list" of objects that it is still 
	forbidden for Jews to carve because these objects were once or 
	are still worshipped as gods somewhere.

	I recognize that Rosanne will be sculpting her image of Nut either
	for artistic or academic purposes, with no thought in mind that
	any fool out there would actually worship such an image.  Still,
	it might be wise for her and Marko to consult a competent religious
	authority, appropriate to whatever religion(s) they may believe in,
	before going ahead with this project.

Oops, too late, it's the curse of the Mummy!

-- 
Marko Amnell
amnell@klaava.helsinki.fi
From: HZS@psuvm.psu.edu (Therion)
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology
Subject: Israeli dig news
Date: 27 Jan 93 22:44:49 GMT
Organization: Penn State University


 Just passing this along for informative purposes:

>High Court of Justice Allows Excavations at French Hill in
>Jerusalem

>Israel Radio reports that the High Court of Justice today rejected
>appeals opposing excavations at French Hill in Jerusalem. The
>excavations were aimed at removing the contents of ancient burial
>caves for proper reburial before a highway was built above them.
>The court's ruling paves the way for the road to be built despite
>the discovery of the burial cave. It is anticipated that the road
>will be constructed along a path proposed by a ministerial
>committee over fewer caves than the original path. Regarding four
>other burial caves which were discovered along the highway's
>initially designated course, the High Court of Justice decided that
>they are not holy sites. This decision makes the contents of the
>caves the responsibility of the Israel Antiquities Authority. KOL
>YISRAEL reports that it is customary for the Antiquities Authority
>to transfer human bones found in caves to the Ministry of Religious
>Affairs for reburial.


>Hundreds of Demonstrators Try to Halt Excavations in Jerusalem

>KOL YISRAEL reports this afternoon that hundreds of ultra-religious
>Jews (Hebrew: Haredim) are marching on French Hill in Jerusalem,
>where excavations of the burial cave there resumed following this
>morning's ruling by the High Court of Justice. Security forces are
>halting the crowd, which is forcibly trying to stop the excavation.
>The demonstrators began setting garbage collection sites on fire.
>Two demonstrators are already reported under arrest. Jerusalem's
>Chief of Police told KOL YISRAEL that he predicts the disturbances
>will continue for several days.
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology