HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: doug@testsys.isis.org (Doug Thompson)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: absolute identity
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 92 19:35:24 EDT
Distribution: na
Organization: SKAN Communications Inc.

In article <1992Aug28.113918.8808@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com> 
(Beginning to think is beginning to be undermined - Albert Camus.) writes: 

> let's see, we have 2000 years of history... that provides the data
> with which to make a few assumptions. you can say you're the exception 
> or those other guys weren't "real christians." But if you accept
> One-Wayism, all other ways are inherently evil. it's integral to
> the whole christian world-view.

Not it isn't. Jesus didn't tell Jews not to be Jews. There is much
more that could be said but suffice it to say that Christianity
doesn't necessarily exclude, it just necessarily includes.

=Doug

---

uuisis!skanadm!doug
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
From: bear@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Bear Giles)
Subject: Re: is newage distinguishable?
Organization: National Oceanic & Atmospheric Adminstration / Boulder Labs
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 03:00:53 GMT

In article <sbuckley.714967021@sfu.ca> sbuckley@fraser.sfu.ca (Stephen Buckley) writes:
>erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp) writes:
>
>>: Bear Giles writes:
>
>>: >Actually, a good definition of a major thrust of the 'new age' can
>>: >be summarized by some 18-th Century radicals:
>>: 
>>: >  The pursuit of life, liberty and happiness with enlightened
>>: >  self-interest.
>
>>Oho!  So it isn't so "new" after all...
>  
>  except that now, people are claiming to be god.

People have been claiming to be gods for thousands of years.  In fact
such claims go back as far as history itself.

There are two big differences, however:

1) The people claiming to be gods are no longer just the priests and/or
   kings.

2) Many people claiming to be god do not mean they are a major deity
   themselves, nor are they an avatar.  Rather, they are an aspect of
   god.

Finally, even Christianity contains elements of that last item. 
Remember confirmation (?) where a person accepts the Holy Ghost
(or Holy Spirit) within themselves?  (Not all denominations
view this in quite the same way, before I get thousands of letters
telling me what 'really' happens).


Bear Giles
bear@fsl.noaa.gov
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
From: bear@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Bear Giles)
Subject: Re: absolute truth
Organization: National Oceanic & Atmospheric Adminstration / Boulder Labs
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 05:17:00 GMT

In article <sbuckley.714790977@sfu.ca> sbuckley@fraser.sfu.ca (Stephen Buckley) writes:
>bear@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Bear Giles) writes:
>... too
>good for needing salvation from someone so primitive as a biblical god.

I can't speak for others, but I certainly don't reject Christianity
because I feel "too good" for salvation from its god.  A _very_ brief
discussion:

What _I_ saw (your mileage may vary) in Christianity was a religion
based on fear.  This is most pronounced in "fundamentalism," but the
concepts of "original sin" and "redemption through Christ" _define_
Christianity.  (I am refering to what people are taught in seminary,
not what your arm-chair bible-thumper will say).

Basically, man is intrinsically evil.  Man can do not good without
divine intervention.  Etc.  Women are even worse, of course, but
that's irrelevant -- they didn't even have souls until the late
middle ages.

You may disagree with this, but this _is_ part of the core of
Christianity.  Occasionally you will read about a theologian who
is downplays the importance of "original sin," and gets in
trouble with his superiors.


I've given this a lot of thought, and I can't accept the concept
of Original Sin.  Humanity isn't perfect, but it is _not_ without
redeeming features.  Moreover, I have seen some of humanity's flaws
institutionalized in the Christian church (say, indulgences, the
inquisitions and intolerance)

Perhaps I could accept a form of 'lite Christianity' :-), but
I've seen several Christian theologians tell me, in no uncertain
terms, that 'Christianity without Original Sin' is _not_ Christianity,
so I don't use that label anymore.


Bear Giles
bear@fsl.noaa.gov
Xref: sparky talk.religion.newage:4063 alt.alien.visitors:6125 sci.skeptic:15036
From: lpb@florida.swdc.stratus.com (Len Bucuvalas)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Date: 29 Aug 92 00:42:27 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc., San Jose, CA

In article <64661@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes:
>Dear Seekers of Truth: The question was asked, "Who is Dharma"? Dharma is
>a person who serves as a channel for some highly evolved beings such
>as Sananda and Hatonn. She has been and is probubly now in the town
>of Tehachapi, Calif. at American West Publisher, P.O. Box 986, Tehachapi,
>Calif 93581, (800) 729-4131. I don't condone nor refute anything that
>is said by her. I have read the book you mentioned by Sananda. Sananda
>speaks about relgious things in a King James sort of words. People who
>read the King James version of the bible seem to like it that way. Many
>times religious things are put down in that way to just weed out the 
>people who are not truely searching for the truth. Newage group do seem
>a lot alike. A group of Light Workers that Don Showen used to work
>with have had Mr. Green and Dharma in to speak to them before. Don 
>doesn't like the information of Hatonn that is coming from Hatonn through
>Dharma. We both enjoyed the information from Hatonn that came through
>Mr. Miller and the Solar Cross.
>John Winston.

Therefore if there are two seperate paths...2 seperate
ideoligies coming from the allegedly same person one must
conclude that:

	1) Someone is lieing
	2) Both are lieing
	3) One or both entities are scitzophrenic
	4) One entity is lying
	5) Both entities are lieing

Len
--
*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*
The accountability of government has gone to the point where the very
use of the law is the instrument of illegality.
		-- Ralph Nader @ Harvard Law School, 1/15/92
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
From: jcitro3@cwis.unomaha.edu (Joe Citro III)
Subject: Re: Get Off John's Back Please!
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 22:06:10 GMT

Xref: sparky talk.religion.newage:4065 alt.alien.visitors:6129 sci.skeptic:15041
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 06:51:14 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1992Aug26.064754.12518@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>

Dear Thinkers: Very profound questions we are getting now, but first 
remember this is OOBE wednesday, same time same channel. If all goes well
I'll be at the property I'm in the process of buying on the south side of
the mountain Mt. Shasta (not the town of Mt. Shasts). I'll be at about
4,960 feet elevation near a place called Widow Springs at a place called
Three Trees. Our place is on Widow Springs Road and Easy Street. It's 
called The Winston Retreat. Everybody is welcome. I am on the same street
as a person whoes kin folks also own a castle over near San Simion, Calif.
I believe they have something to do with newspapers. Our place is not
exactly a castle but more like a wooden housing unit that is in Yosimite.
The question was asked, Who are these people who are doing this picking 
up of people"? These people go by many names, The Confederation of Planets,
The Ashtar Command and the space people. In my opinion everyone here has
lived before and more than likely everyone here on earth has been part 
of this group before. I refer to them as my space brothers and sisters.
Please don't worry about going to Venus in your present body because if 
you are taken to Venus your molecular structure will be changed so that
you will be conducive to that inviorment and take my word for it that
area in the fourth dimension is very nice. In closing Big Al I'm in the 
process of getting the picture you mentioned made but I will wait till
you move if you like. I hope this finds you all well.
John Winston. When I take off (in the physical) I'll be gone till tuesday.
From: walsha@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com (Beginning to think is beginning to be undermined - Albert Camus.)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: absolute identity
Date: 28 Aug 92 11:39:18 EST

In article <sbuckley.714966300@sfu.ca>, sbuckley@fraser.sfu.ca (Stephen Buckley) writes:
> 
>   man, you should be careful about the assumptions you make about me.  i'm
> not a book burner or censorship monger.  

let's see, we have 2000 years of history... that provides the data
with which to make a few assumptions. you can say you're the exception 
or those other guys weren't "real christians." But if you accept
One-Wayism, all other ways are inherently evil. it's integral to
the whole christian world-view.

>   i understand that these books do help people, but from looking at my
> life and the lives of many of my friends, it's not lasting help, 

is there anyone who knows christians and can't say exactly the same 
thing about them? take off the blinders.

> and again, i think you're too uninformed about
> my life to make any assumptions about why i'm a christian.

i know exactly why you're a christian - you think you've found the 
one way and that now you're saved. that's not too tricky.

   ando.
From: Neklan_Brozensky@mindlink.bc.ca (Neklan Brozensky)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: Subject?
Date: 2 Sep 92 08:01:25 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

In article  <1992Aug28.134921.28421@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> Matthew Weasner
writes:
> 
> In article <25660@dog.ee.lbl.gov> sichase@csa3.lbl.gov writes:
> >In article <34544@cbmvax.commodore.com>, kominetz@cbmvax.commodore.com (John
> Kominetz - CATS) writes...
> >> ========================================================================
> >>  "The higher you fly, the faster you fall."          -- Laurie Anderson
> >
> >    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >
> >That's not true.  You have a defective .sig.
> >
> >-Scott
> actually, in a way, I think it is true. You accelerate at the same rate.
> (9.8 m/s ?) So if you are higher, you get more time to accelerate. Therefore,
> you are going faster when you hit the ground and go <SPLAT!>. Elementary, my
> 
> my 2 measly cents.
> matt


Well, that's not necessarily right either. When bodies are free falling in a
fluid or gas, they reach a point called terminal velocity which is dependant
upon the shape of the body and the type of fluid/gas....Sooo, the original
statement is correct up to a point. If you fly high enough that when falling
you accelerate up to the terminal velocity, then  you will not fall faster if
you are flying any higher, previous to falling.  Also the value of 9.8m/(s^2)
is valid only on the planet earth, and even there varies slightly with
altitude.



My 3 cents...
Neklan
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
From: sbuckley@fraser.sfu.ca (Stephen Buckley)
Subject: Re: is newage distinguishable?
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 23:48:22 GMT

Ed Carp writes:

>Perhaps some claim to *be* god.  I only claim that god is within me, a belief
>that any devout Christian would have to agree with.

  only to a point.  jesus holds water with christians but his divinity
and exclusive access to god is simplistic and primitive in the newage.
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors
From: mdl@phelixsalt (Michael Lynch)
Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage
Reply-To: mdl@phelixsalt (Michael Lynch)
Organization: Bellcore
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 15:14:11 GMT

In article <64695@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes:
|> Dear People: In the small town of Mt. Shasta City, Calif. there is an
|> organization call the I AM Group or something to that effect. Now no 
|> matter what I say about this group they are probubly going to get mad
|> at me for saying it, so what else is new. This group was started by a 
|> person by the name of Mr. Ballard who then used the pen name of 
|> Godfrey King (not the person who was beaten up by the cops in L.A.)
|> Mr. Ballard came to the town of Mt. Shasta and took a trip on the sides
|> of the mountain Mt. Shasta. He came in contact with a very wonderful
|> person called Saint Germain. These two people came in contact with
|> eachother on the sides of Mt. Shasta at a place called by some people
|> The cedars (because the short pine trees look like short cedar trees
|> and are wind swept). This is also near a small spring and a little 
|> grass that happens to be the same place that I originally went to 
|> before I ever read the material written by Godfrey King. Saint Germain
|> (who is what I consider to me a Master) taught Mr. King a lot of
|> wonderful things and took him on a lot of spiritual journeys. It all
|> sounds a lot like the story of the Arabian Nights but I consider it 
|> to be true. I've read a lot of the material that is still put out 
|> by the organization. They have a bookstore on the main street of 
|> Mt. Shasta City. They put on a play most every year about the life of 
|> Jesus and I've seen it. It's a good production. They also have a 
|> radio program on sunday morning over the local radio station.
|> If I attempted to join this organization they would probubly kick
|> me out because I'm a loaner.
                        ^^^^^^



When do you have to be returned?


Mike

                        
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
From: sbuckley@fraser.sfu.ca (Stephen Buckley)
Subject: Re: absolute truth
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 01:02:57 GMT

bear@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Bear Giles) writes:

>In article <sbuckley.714778818@sfu.ca> sbuckley@fraser.sfu.ca (Stephen Buckley) writes:
>>bear@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Bear Giles) writes:
>>>Of course, you could always try reading the entire _Illuminatus!_ trilogy
>>>one weekend.  (_Don't_ stop partway through the first book).  If that
>>>doesn't shake up the synapses...
>>
>>  and i love wilson's fiction, but as a practical, relevant philosopher
>>for how to live my life, i'd rather listen to sally jesse raphael.  i've
>>read illuminatus and i loved it as a book.  but as per #2 above, i have
>>no intention of relinquishing my identity or the critical capacity

>Not even his "get into the other person's world view?"

  there's a distinction to be made between getting into another person's
view as in literature or in life in trying to empathize and understand
another's experience, but to abandon my identity is too much.  i'm me
and i'm suspicious of any philosophy that advocates i abandon me.  

>>set tirade=off :)  but the spiritual pablum on the market just disgusts
>>me to no end.

>Out of curiousity, can you give examples?  I would imagine anything
>with crystals, channelling or atlantis, but what about Oral Roberts?
>Pat Robertson and Pat Buchanan?

  i haven't read roberts, robertson or buchanan.  i was refering to the
previous stuff in the list.  basically, all the cosmic muffin stuff
that ends up convincing me that i can be god/perfect/self-sufficient/too
good for needing salvation from someone so primitive as a biblical god.

Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
From: bear@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Bear Giles)
Subject: Re: is newage distinguishable?
Organization: National Oceanic & Atmospheric Adminstration / Boulder Labs
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 21:44:45 GMT

In article <1992Aug26.184453.712@unislc.uucp> erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp) writes:
:Bear Giles (bear@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU) wrote:
:: [1]  The best way to upset an eco-freak is to point out, after s/he
:: choses environmentally sound paper bags over reprehensible plastic bags,
:: that paper bags are _far_ more energy costly than plastic bags
:: (due to the incredible amount of energy required to dry paper pulp).
:
:Now you've done it!  Next thing we're going to see is "paper bags made with
:pulp dried naturally by the sun".  :)

In the Pacific Northwest?!

(BTW, I believe "paper pulp", when pressed and dried, produces paper.
Drying pulp in the sun will just make a big mess.  Imagine a cardboard
box soaked by rain, then left to dry in the sun).


Bear Giles
bear@fsl.noaa.gov
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors
From: bear@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Bear Giles)
Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage
Organization: National Oceanic & Atmospheric Adminstration / Boulder Labs
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 18:52:05 GMT

In article <1684F9D49.LINSCOT@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU> LINSCOT@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU (Stephen M. Linscott) writes:
>  OK, I'm slow... I just noticed that there is only one letter difference
>between newage and sewage!!!
>                                               - Steve -

And god spelled backwards is dog.

And with only additional one letter difference god becomes fog.  Or log.
Or hog.  (Does this explain the prohibition against eating pork?)  And
an 'r' and get a frog.

And of course nobody should forget with a single letter shift (and minor
language change) god is death (tod, dead (adj) in German).


I hope Steve was just making a _really_ dumb joke, but it is that time of
year when the kiddies return.  Oh joy.  (Classes started at CU this
morning).


Bear Giles
bear@fsl.noaa.gov
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
From: arsmith@nyx.cs.du.edu (Alan Smith)
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 92 02:50:05 GMT

In article <1992Aug23.194250.21152@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> rogue@ccs
northeastern.edu (Free Radical) writes:
>In article <64420@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes:
>[...]
>>     they say Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune and 
>>     Pluto do have human life in their appropriate form (you notice
>>     they didn't say they looked exactly like us especiallly).
>
>Or are detectable by any of the NASA probes.  C'mon, John - at least giv
 us 
>something halfway plausable.  Everything you've posted in the past few w
eks
>has not only been silly in the extreme, but is easily disprovable by the
most
>rudimentary study of science.  Give it a rest.
>

HA!  I'vegotitI'vegotitI'vegotit!  I figured it out!  John's not using
*science*.  He's working from perceptions and what he's developed as his
belief system.  Same as us, really.

Big Al.  Somebody thought of this already, huh?
From: walsha@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com (Beginning to think is beginning to be undermined - Albert Camus.)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
Subject: re: absolute identity
Date: 26 Aug 92 09:50:59 EST


sbuckley writes:
>  so can i, but the only thing zen did for me after studying it is that
>it erases my identity.  
>
>[...]
>
>i have no intention of relinquishing my identity 
>

so you have an identity problem, or, from the frequency of repition,
obsession. But do you realize that not everyone has that problem?
Some of us have a pretty firm idea of who and what we are.
We don't look at life thru your obsessions and don't see life as
you see it.

>i am an individual with two parents, a lineage tracable 450
>years on paper 

well, that should help your identity problem a little, or is it
causing it?

>to dump my identity is to wimp out of life.

identity = life. interesting. would you entertain the prospect that
life is possibly more than your identity? 

> but the spiritual pablum on the market just disgusts me to no end.

of course, you're a fundamentalist christian. i'm sure that everything
that is not fundamentalist christian disgusts you and you want to
just get rid of it all. Heck, it might threaten that shakey identity
of yours. Sounds pretty scary.

can you realize that those books that disgust you so much might be
helping some people? or does that idea too threaten your christian 
identity? It seems like you've latched on to a religion that 
succeeds in quelling your fears. Hmm, what's the definition of 
"spiritual pablum?"

    ando.

Xref: sparky talk.religion.newage:4198 alt.alien.visitors:6397
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage
Date: Fri,  4 Sep 92 06:17:27 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
  <65151@cup.portal.com>

Subject: My Friend Len.
Many years back I went over to a college in the San Francisco Bay 
area to listen to a group of people called The Two. They were a man 
and woman who felt that the space people had contacted them to help 
get some earth people to leave this earth. They were not successful
in their endeavors to any great extent but at this lecture I did come
in contact with a person who I will called Len. That is not his real
name but I will use it to protect his people who are still living. I
had come into the lecture late and had missed recording the first part
of the talk and Len shared the first part of his recording with me.
We found that we both knew a lot of the same people in the UFO situation
and decided to meet. He offered to take me on a field trip and put me 
in contact with the people in the flying saucers.
John Winston. More to come later.
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
From: randolph@est.enet.dec.com (Tom Randolph)
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date:  4 SEP 92 14:33:27    


In article <3tmn!h#@lynx.unm.edu>, cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer) writes...
>Maybe you should get your eyes checked and get a clue while you're at it.
>Anything in the earth's atmosphere and unpowered (this includes meteors or
>shooting stars) is obviously under the influence of the earth's gravity and 
>definitely isn't going to travel in a straight line.
> 
>Ithlial
> 
>My opinions, mine, mine, mine!
> 
>To me, boxing is like ballet, except there's no music, no choreography,
>and the dancers hit eachother.

Look, dude, I've seen dozens of photos of meteors. I have yet to see one with a
curved path. How many have you seen? How many real meteors have you seen? I've
probably seen more than you and Winston put together. I'm speaking from what
I've seen with my own eyes over 20 years of watching the sky, not from 
something I got by rubbing a crystal.

If you can honestly tell me that something moving many miles per second, in an
orbit that's as close to straight as it gets except over millions of miles,
looks to you like it's curving, then I say wake up, you're dreaming. Man-made
satellites look and photograph, from the ground, like they're moving in dead
straight lines, and these orbits are much more curved than any meteor is ever
going to be.
-Tom R.   randolph@est.enet.dec.com
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
From: arsmith@nyx.cs.du.edu (Alan Smith)
Subject: Re: "I Am Sananda"
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 06:33:07 GMT


Pleased to meet you.  :~)(

BTW, I thought that dharma was indian for "social obligation."

"I Am Big Al."
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage