HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
Subject: Re: RETIBOL
Date: 25 Aug 92 17:56:29 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Aug25.175629.25541
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1992Aug25.120642.321@sage.hnrc.tufts.edu> loszewski_im@sage.hnrc.tufts.edu writes:
>> Neither drug is sold in the US: neither
>> is FDA approved, and, anyway, these would Rx-only drugs if they
>> were approved.  It's illegal to sell them in the US.
>
>Steve, are you sure?  I was under the impression that it was not FDA approved,
>but still legal to sell it.  The owner of the nutrition shop I go to told me 
>the FDA raided his store about a month ago and took all the Clenbuterol he had.
>He told me the product isn't exactly black market, but more like gray market
>"material."

It was probably imported from a country in which it was sold legally.
That is, it's not made in a bathtub, but it is still illegal to sell.
The legal issues here are somewhat grey and complicated (the FDA strictly-
speaking can control only interstate commerce, but by its exercise of power
and legal precendents backing their actions up, the FDA has a longer reach than
you'd expect from statute.)   There is also local state drug law, which
usually parallels federal drug law, but is sometimes stricter.  Clenbuterol
would probably be considered a Mass. Schedule VI controlled substance,
if only by virtue of the fact that it would be Rx only if it were approved
in the US.

>Dym. 25 is not (or is it?) FDA approved but it is still sold on the
>shelf.  At least the FDA did not confiscate that when they raided the shop.  I
>would think that if Dym 25 (ephedrine HCl) is found in OTC meds., then it must
>be FDA approved.  Is there anyone out there that can more clearly define FDA
>approval?

If Dymetadrine said anything about weight loss or losing fat or assisting
in workouts, by FDA standards, it would be deemed "misbranded" and hence
illegal to sell.  Since I suspect it DOESN'T say anything along these lines,
it is probably treated as equivalent to ordinary OTC ephedrine.  Strictly
speaking, a drug company has to get approval for the sale of ANY drug, even
one containing an active ingredient already approved, and if the manufacturers
of Dymetadrine didn't approach them, it's probably breaking some aspect of the
federal food and drug act.  However, since the FDA has limited time, money,
and personnel, it tends to concentrate on violations which are more obvious
and more potentially a threat to health.  That's why Dymetadrine was left
alone (each such confiscation requires a separate legal action.)


-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: shishir@chpc.chpc.org (Shishir Gundavaram)
Subject: Mini "chutes" and Sprinting
Organization: Center For High Perf. Computing of WPI; Marlboro Ma
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 17:30:59 GMT


To all the Sprinting gurus,

I was wondering what the price of the mini "chutes" (used to artificially
increase resistance -- to improve sprinting, and also running in general)
is? and where I could buy 'em?

Thanks,

--Shishir


===============================================================================
Shishir Gundavaram                           "If  the  Carter government hadn't
The Center for High Performance Computing     kept the Americans  out of Moscow
293 Boston Post Road West, Suite 170          in 1980, *CARL LEWIS*  would have
Marlborough, MA 01752                         been  the  fastest man over three
                                              Olympics and a full decade."
Email: shishir@{fishn,chpc}.chpc.org
Phone: (508) 624-7600 x633                   "I have been very blessed to coach
                                              some  of  the greatest that  have
"Sure I can beat him on any given day--       ever  played  the game,  but if I
 that he breaks his leg."                     were to  start a  team today, the
 ---- Mel Purcell assessing his chances       greatest  player  and   the   one
      of beating *IVAN LENDL* (87).           guy   I'd    choose    would   be
                                              *LARRY BIRD*" --Red Auerbach (86)
===============================================================================
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: mazur@inmet.camb.inmet.com (Beth Mazur)
Subject: Re: Fat Burner Pills
Organization: Intermetrics Inc, Cambridge MA
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 18:17:07 GMT

In article <1992Aug25.120911.322@sage.hnrc.tufts.edu> loszewski_im@sage.hnrc.tufts.edu writes:
>In article <1992Aug25.014247.19326@spdcc.com>, dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
>> In article <2A9983B3.1539@orion.oac.uci.edu> dan@cafws2.eng.uci.edu (Dan Harkless) writes:
>>>Hello everyone.  Anyone have any opinions on "Fat Burner" pills?
>>>been trying some that contain (in 4 caplets):
>>>L-Choline Bitartrate    1500 mg >L-Inositol              1000 mg
>>>L-Carnitine              500 mg >DL-Methionine            300 mg
>>>Betaine HCL              300 mg >Vitamine B-6              10 mg
>>>Chromium Picolinate     200 mcg
>>>I have read the recent thread about CP, and also an article from
>>>Virgilio Velasco from July 10th, and I can't seem to draw any consensus on
>>>whether these things aid in fat burning, or if they're snake oil.
>> 
>> They're a complete waste of money.
>
>Not true.  I have had great success with liquid L-Carnitine.  It is well known
>that L-Carnitine helps to mobilize fat so that it can be used up better in 
>aerobic work.

In his latest book, Atkins talks about L-Carnitine.  He points out that
non-liquid forms are essentially useless, so even if it does work to
mobilize fat (as you and he suggest), what is in this pills is unlikely
to do much.  Atkins is also a big fan of Chromium Picolinate.

He also talks about one of the other aminos (L-Gsomething) as being
useful for carbo cravings and suggests it for people who are having
trouble adapting to his low-carbo diet. 

Beth Mazur                   "...life is more than a vision.  The sweetest
mazur@inmet.inmet.com         part is acting after making a decision."
...!uunet!inmet!mazur                                  -- The Indigo Girls
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: ah532@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike Gleba)
Subject: Re: RETIBOL
Reply-To: ah532@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike Gleba)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 92 04:15:08 GMT


In a previous article, mfuchs@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Mike Fuchs) says:

>
>    The other day I ran across this product called "Retibol".  Does
>    any body out there have any information regarding this substance.
>    I understand it deals with protein synthesis.  How does this compare
>    to cyclofinil or clenbuterol plus ?  I assume their is no androgenic
>    effects. Any suggestions/alternaives along with infrmation on the
>    above would be deeply appreciated.
>
>				       Thanks in advance....
>
>
>					      Michael
>
>
>
>       ......Any.gym.thats.open.on.sunday.is.worth.joining..........
>
Retibol is a product that is quoted to be 50% as effective as a good
steroid. I was going to buy retibol but at almost $50 a bottle, a month
supply would cost me a good $250- $300. I could go on roids for that
much. trust me, stick with basic supplements, like aminos and weight
gainers, good food, and rest. It seems to easy, and it took me 2 years
to realize it, and I still may not have gotten it. :)

-Mike

-- 
Bodybuilders and Volleyball Players Will Rule The World

Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: poo@athena.mit.edu (Claude Poux)
Subject: Re: arnold, lats and TV
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 17:20:50 GMT

In article <DEHP.35@calvin.edu> DEHP@calvin.edu (Phil de Haan) writes:
>
>Did anyone catch the new show on ABC last night called, I think, "Going to 
>Extremes."  It wasn't great, but one line in the show made me inclined to 
>watch again.  A doctor (the show is about some medical school in the 
>tropics) is looking at a recently shipped cadaver and says:  "Boy I haven't 
>seen lats like that on a white guy since the young Arnold."  Hmmmm.
>

well, sounds to me like they interviewed an extremely limited doctor.  the
title of the program was appropriate, i guess.....



>
>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>       Phil de Haan (DoD #0578) -- Calvin College, Home of the 1992
>                   NCAA III men's basketball champions
>
>   There is nothing more galling to angry people than the coolness
>of those on whom they wish to vent their spleen . . . Alexander Dumas
>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: mazur@inmet.camb.inmet.com (Beth Mazur)
Subject: Re: What's the deal with those carbohydrates
Organization: Intermetrics Inc, Cambridge MA
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 18:35:54 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.235559.15599@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> vxv4@po.CWRU.Edu (Virgilio Velasco) writes:
>
>In a previous article, loszewski_im@sage.hnrc.tufts.edu () says:
>
>>complex carbs are converted to energy slower than simple carbs.  That
>>is why you should consume complex carbs rather than simple carbs before your
>>workouts; so that you have sustained energy release through your workout.
>>hope this was helpful.
>
>	Also, since they are less rapidly absorbed into the bloodstream
>from the intestines, your glucose level doesn't go up as rapidly.  If
>your glucose level rises too much, your body will start converting the
>excess to fat.  Hence, complex carbs are less fattening than simple
>carbs.

I doubt this is true.  If your glucose level rises too much, your body
produces insulin.  In most people, it is just as likely that the insulin
can cause the muscles to store the excess as glycogen. 

According to studies reported by Martin Katahn in the T-Factor Diet book, 
participants had to be overfed by thousands of carbohydrate calories before
the body started converting them to fat.  His theory is that the body
rarely converts excess carbos to fat--and that any that aren't needed
are burned off either by raising the metabolism or are stored as glycogen.

Now the subjects were fit adults.  It is possible that there are people
who react to raised glucose levels poorly (the so-called insulin-resistant
a la Drs. Atkins, Hellers, and Ezrin) and would do well to avoid eating
foods that would raise blood glucose too quickly.  But these are generally 
people who have been fighting obesity all their lives, not people who
want to lose 10 lbs.

Beth Mazur                   "...life is more than a vision.  The sweetest
mazur@inmet.inmet.com         part is acting after making a decision."
...!uunet!inmet!mazur                                  -- The Indigo Girls
From: SSDC2@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU (J Green)
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
Subject: Re: Reference Books
Date: 1 Sep 92 12:08:03 GMT

>From: jmeritt@rod.mitre.org (Jim Meritt)
>
>Could people please point out their favorite (or add it) and give a short
>line or two on why, please?

my favorite:  Beyond Built - Bob Paris

why? it's an excellent book for any level bodybuilder, giving good
descriptions of exercises, as well as what you should be THINING while
doing each exercise. also tips on diet, training logs, contest prep, etc.
plus lots of great photos of the exercises (and Bob! ;-)

Janice"Bob Paris fan, but i'd recommend the book even if you aren't!"G

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Janice Green, Research Programmer      Social Science Data Center   __o
Janice_Green@Brown.edu                 Brown University           _`\<,_
SSDC2@BROWNVM          -+||-----||+-   Providence, RI (USA)      (*)/ (*)
From: ekp@mcnc.org (Edward Pavelchek)
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
Subject: Re: Katahn and carbohydrates -- the references
Date: 3 Sep 92 15:08:43 GMT
Organization: Good place for a disclaimer

In article <1992Aug31.190339.19581@inmet.camb.inmet.com> mazur@inmet.camb.inmet.com (Beth Mazur) writes:
>Here are some of the passages and references from Katahn's T-Factor
>Diet book.
>
>	Each day, in order to saturate glycogen stores, they 
>	fed their subjects 1500 more calories than they had burned on
>	they previous day. 

>	In addition, there
>	was a 35 percent increase in the metabolic rate so that by
>	Day 7 of overfeeding in the experiment (the last day of
>	overfeeding), the subjects were consuming over 5000 calories
>	a day, approximately 4000 of which were in the form of
>	carbohydrate.
>	...Acheson and his colleagues concluded that while it is possible
>	to force the conversion of carbohydrate to fat, to do so glycogen
>	stores must first increase by about 500 g over their normal
>	level.

First, I want to thank Beth for posting this sort of stuff.  I find 
it fascinating, and confusing.  Many papers can be effectively 
summarized in a paragraph or so, at least for the point of view under
discussion. I hope more people will contribute in this way.

I'd like to comment 'technically', but I started reading about hunger
this spring also, and came quickly to the conclusion that it was far
more complicated, and far less understood, than exercise physiology.
You have seen how well we agree on that.

I can't resist one observation.  The normal RQ is 0.82, which implies
that 60% of non-protein energy is coming from fat.  If a 'typical'
American diet is 40% fat, 15% protein and 45% carbs, where is the 
fat deduced from the RQ coming from?
-- 
Ed Pavelchek   ekp@mcnc.org
But I make a profit of 3 1/4 cents an egg by selling them for 4 1/4
cents an egg to the people in Malta I buy them from for 7 cents an egg.
Of course, *I* don't make the profit.          Joseph Heller, Catcha 22
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver)
Subject: Re: I WAS ON ABC W/ADAM FOR TWO MIN
Date: 24 Aug 92 22:40:20 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corp.


>How much better are you are armwrestling now than you were at it last
>year?  Think you've improved enough that you could take me? :)


/(silver)
/I'd rip your arm off and eat it like a chicken leg.  :-)

							-Adam


Um, Adam, from what I've read so far, I'd be real careful throwing
the words "chicken leg" around, if I were you . . .
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: ekp@mcnc.org (Edward Pavelchek)
Subject: Re: Fitness thoughts
Organization: Good place for a disclaimer
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 19:15:58 GMT

In article <1992Sep2.151100.28230@inmet.camb.inmet.com> mazur@inmet.camb.inmet.com (Beth Mazur) writes:
>However, the more glucose/glycogen that is used, the more that needs to
>be replaced.  People who are trying to lose a substantial amount of
>weight are proabably better off at a lower intensity (using a higher
>percentage of fat as fuel), because the last thing they probably want 
>are serious carbo cravings after exercise.

This is a whole 'nother can of worms, which I haven't attacked in the
past.  As far as I can tell, the state of knowledge is such that it
is both less attackable and less defensible.

From a dieting point of view, both Katahn and the forgotten authors of 
the "Carbo Addicts" cannot both be right for some individual.  There
have been high carb, high fat, high protein, low carb etc diets pushed.
The only spot I can't think of is a high carb, high fat low protein
diet.  I'm sure someone can name one.  (the Irish diet!)
Each of these may work for someone.  But who?

Most people do not exercise to glycogen depletion.  Even extremely fit
ones.  Certainly not the overweight, out of shapes that it is
claimed that _TNFoF_ is aimed at.  If glycogen depletion was such a
big bear, then why aren't guidelines to avoid it mentioned?

One of the few accepted facts in
'hungerology' seems to be that mild exercise depresses appetite.
This along with the calories required for exercise, and some post
exercise metabolic elevation, seem adequate to explain weight loss.
It seem incumbent for the 'burn fat, not glycogen' crowd to dig
up a few references in support of this plausible, but apparently
untested hypothesis.
-- 
Ed Pavelchek   ekp@mcnc.org
But I make a profit of 3 1/4 cents an egg by selling them for 4 1/4
cents an egg to the people in Malta I buy them from for 7 cents an egg.
Of course, *I* don't make the profit.          Joseph Heller, Catcha 22
From: klin@ucrengr.ucr.edu (kenneth m. lin)
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
Subject: Seeking Info/Comment on FUTUREX-1000
Date: 24 Aug 92 19:26:37 GMT
Article-I.D.: galaxy.21925
Distribution: na
Organization: University of California, Riverside


I saw this advertisement for a product called FUTUREX-1000 in SelfCare Catalog 
of Emeryville, California:

ESSENTIAL TOOL FOR A HEALTHY DIET

Dieting to lose weight?  What you are really looking to lose is body fat, even
as you gain lean muscle.  That's why, for dieters, the Body Fat Tester is 
essential as a scale.  When placed against your bicep, infrared light measures,
calculates, and instantly displays your percent body fat.  Using the accom-
panying charts, you can set goals and measure, track, and control your body 
fat on a regular basis.  < And so on.> 
Measures 4.5" x 2.5" x 1.25".
Price: $99.95

The address of the company is

   SelfCare Catalog
   5850 Shellmound Street
   Emeryville, CA 94608 
   tel 1 (800) 345-3371
 
Anyway, I have the following questions:

* Has anyone reading this post ever seen or used this product before?  
  If so, how accurate is it?
* Is the price reasonable? 

I am seriously considering buying this product since it seems so convenient 
and I can keep track of my body fat in daily basis.

Thanks in Advance
   
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: bn112@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Chris Katopis)
Subject: Home Water Purification Systems: How to Buy ... ?
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 04:23:16 GMT


I want to get a home water purification system for my
kitchen sink.  what should i look for in terms of systems,
(charcoal vs. ???), brand names, mounting??
i know NOTHING about these appliances
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: aw@sei.cmu.edu (Anne Wulffraat)
Subject: General Fitness
Organization: Software Engineering Institute
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 19:25:14 GMT


I am surprised that no one has mentioned Perceived Exertion in the midst of
all the talk about target heart rates. Perceived Exertion is the determination
of your work state through outward physical signs. Can you breath easily?
Can you speak? Are you light-headed and uncomfortable? We use these techniques
to some extent but they're being relied on more heavily because people on 
the extreme ends of the fitness scale render traditional heart rate charts
ineffective.

I also wanted to mention that body fat percentage is not the only fitness
measurement. Fitness has four aspects, all of which must be developed to be
truly fit. They are:	1.) Body fat
			2.) Strength 
			3.) Flexibility
			4.) Cardiovascular endurance
and not necessarily in that order. 

Now I have a question for anyone who has read this far. Do you see a lot of
eating disorders and low self-images where you work out? I'm particularly
interested in this occurrence among men. It seems to be a trend among fitness 
fanatics (evident even on the posts I've read here) to become intensely 
focussed on one aspect of the fitness routine - i.e. body fat, perfect abs,
weight, etc. and to lose the all-around focus necessary for real fitness.
What do you think?

Thanks.

-Anne Wulffraat
 (an aerobics instructor/weight lifter among other things)
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: ghlangf@pbhyb.PacBell.COM (Garrison H. Langford)
Subject: Re: step Reebok
Organization: Pacific * Bell
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 14:00:14 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.014523.1438@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu>, control3@McRCIM.McGill.EDU (Mark Readman) writes:
> 
> At the step class that I go to the instructors have
> some great step moves but I wouldnt know how to 
> explain them in a compact way.
> 
> Is there a standard way to record moves used in 
> aerobics or step classes ?
> 
> Mark.
> 
> -- 
> 
Most of the basic STEP moves/patterns have common names.  For
example, Right Leg Lead, Left Leg Lead, Tap on Top, Straddle, etc
However, when patterns are put together, or a new move is "made
up"/discovered by an instructor, you can get some very creative
names to things - We have "Corkscrew," and "Chili Dog" at our
club which are comprised of a group of general moves all put
together, so that once the instructor has cued the class through
all the moves, says "and put all this together to make the "Chili
Dog," and then will cue the entire pattern as that instead of
breaking it down again - I think its fun and makes a class more
interesting.

By the way, "Chili Dog" is Right Leg Lead with Left Knee raised,
Left Leg steps down to the left side of the step, right leg taps down,
Right Grapevine over the step, Left Leg up on the step (now from
the right side of the STEP), right leg up with knee lift, Right
leg comes back into a basic right/left leg leg pattern. It takes
a little while to build into the whole thing, but once were
there, it's "do the chilidog!"



 




-- 
======================================================
~~~~G. H. Langford 	pacbell.com!pbhyd!ghlangf ~~~~
"I'm not really bad.....just drawn that way"-J.Rabbitt
======================================================
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
Subject: Re: Muscle by S. Fussell
Date: 3 Sep 92 17:54:28 GMT
Article-I.D.: henson.1992Sep3.175428.20372
Organization: Western Washington University


shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Mary Shafer) writes:

>I'm about half through with it and it's a very good book.  The photos
>are amazing.

I read it when it came out, and re-read it a few days ago.  The photos
are interesting.  It shows him at 22, a skinny sack of bones, at age
age 30, a muscle bound freak, and at age 31, a rather ordinary looking
guy.

At 25, he started building, from 6'4", 170 lbs.   It shows him at various
times, becoming huge.  At the height of his folly, and full of roids
according to his book, he was 250 lbs at age 30.

After giving up lifting and the drugs, he dropped down to 200 lbs over
4 months and stayed there.  When I read that I was thinking that if
hypertrophied muscles will go away so quickly, what's the point of 
spending all the time and effort to maintain them?

Jim Del Vecchio
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: cathys@Ingres.COM (Cathy Savino)
Subject: Re: Competative powerlifting for women
Reply-To: cathys@ingres.com (Cathy Savino)
Organization: Ingres, An ASK Company 
Date: 3 Sep 92 22:22:20 GMT


In article <1992Aug31.121244.14433@rchland.ibm.com>, alter@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (E. Alter) writes:
|> I have a friend who is interested in getting into competative powerlifting.
|> Without any serious weight training, she's quite strong (she was in shot-put in
|> high-school track).  Can anyone point me to
|> sources for training ideas, rules, techniques, competitions (in Minnesota), so I
|> can get her going on the right track?

There are TOO many powerlifting federations around to address all of them, but
The ADFPA (American Drug Free Powerlifing Federation) State Coordinator in
Minnesota is:

Micheal Hartle
5354 Dupont Avenue s.
Minneapolis, MN 55419
(612)824-1890

She could call or write, he may know of any powerlifing gyms near her, how to get a rule
book (but talking to a powerlifter may help more), upcoming meets, State 
records in her weight class, etc. There's also a magazine (Powerlifting USA)
which has lots of article about traing techniques, meet results, etc.
I don't have it with me, but I can get the info for her to subscribe (It's
pretty hard to find at the newsatand.) If you'd like to email me some
questions, I'd be glad to answer what I can.  I'm pretty sure
that the Women's ADFPA nationals in going to be in Chicago in april of '93.
If it's close enough, that would be a great meet for her to see.

--
Cathy Savino 
   ___     _____   __  __       Ingres, An ASK Company
  / _ \   / ____\  | |/ /       1080 Marina Village Parkway
 / /_\ \  \____ \  | |\ \       Alameda, Ca 94501
/_/   \_\ \_____/  |_| \_\      (510) 748-3524
                                cathys@ingres.com
Newsgroups: misc.fitness