From: phil@netcom.com (Phil Ronzone)
Subject: Re: "encouraging tolerance" is a bad goal
Organization: Generally in favor of, but mostly random.
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 21:17:48 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.044829.20769@pb2esac.uucp> jlbrand@pb2esac.uucp (Jack Brand) writes:
>In article <st+p4#n.phil@netcom.com> phil@netcom.com (Phil Ronzone) writes:
    >>In article <1992Sep29.091033.17267@pb2esac.uucp>
    >>jlbrand@pb2esac.uucp (Jack Brand) writes: Since money for the
    >>schools is being coerced (taxed) from people, they rightly
    >>feel that they should not pay for ideas to be to taught to
    >>their kids that they disagree with.
    >
    >The best way to insure that everyone's prejudices remain as
    >intact as possible is to shut down the Evil Secular Humanist
    >public schools and ship the kidlets off to the local
    >extension of your church. This will happen shortly, mostly
    >because public schools have in many areas fallen down on the
    >job they were supposed to be doing. Americans were never ones
    >to be accused of caution when it comes to throwing the baby
    >out with the bathwater.

So we go from the Evil Secular Jumanist public schools of them [those you
disagree with / don't like?] to the Evil Religious private schools?

Maybe so -- but, then, I state that people have such a right.


I'm not going to say they can't. Do you?


    >>So in reality, you have posed an impossible situation -- sort
    >>of like asking how the NAZIs could not be anti-semitic.
    >>
    >Well, some of us live in the real world, too - working within
    >the public school system because it exists, we believe it
    >should not entirely be thrown overboard, and that
    >alternatives may be much worse. Therefore, to me, asking a
    >question that I did ("should we teach Disability Awareness?")
    >really bears little resemblence to some sort of Nazi analogy.

The NAZIs had zero tolerance forschool choices -- the children got the
State approved choice. Period. Is this not what you seek?

I say each parent can choose. And this means that some set of parents
will choose stupidly IN MY OPINION, but then, I don't presume to run their
lives. Do you?


    >>Note that if we changed to NOT teach tolerance, we'd then be
    >>pissing off a different set of parents.
    >>
    >True. But just because something *might* go wrong with a
    >method does not invalidate the method. Of course the easy way
    >out is to throw up our hands and say "Gosh, there's a chance
    >this scheme of teaching kids somewhat independent of the
    >day-to-day whims of the parents could go wrong, so we give
    >up. It's all a bad idea."
    >
    >Some of us do not choose the easy way out.

No, you choose the inherent fascist way. Even your wording is loaded with
automatic assumptions that YOU know better than "day-to-day whims" of
parents. Yes, the NAZIs too thought that that THEY could do better than
the parents.

    >>See what happens when FOA is fucked with?
    >>
    >Yes - that it will take fine tuning to make a society work.
    >Sorry, life is not easy, fair, clear-cut, or black and white.
    >I am not quite yet convinced that marching to a narrow slogan
    >("Pure FOA, never deviated from, is the Answer") will produce
    >one long throb of happy motoring for our society.
    >
    >"There is no substitute for talent, experience, intelligence
    >and hard work." (Bjarne Stroustrup)
    >
    >This includes simplistic political philosophy.

As yes, we must have "happy motoring". Well, freedom ain't efficient.
Jails are -- uniform accomodations, uniform food, uniform uniforms!
No needless billions, tens of billions spent on designer jeans,
fancy cars, ethnic meals, mountain bikes ...

Well, the whole point of freedom is NOT to have one glorious happy
State, but rather, it is to let each one of us puruse happiness in
our own way.

And as much as it may upset you (or me), that means that some parents
will teach and raise their kids in ways YOU don't like.

But then again, it means YOU can raise YOUR kids in ways I don't like
as well.

Now, who is REALLY the more tolerant here? I think it tis me and not thee...



-- 
phil@netcom.com (Phil Ronzone)

"I can't get no satisfaction ...", M. Jagger
"Yeah, right, tell me another one Mick.", P. Ronzone

These opinions are MINE, and you can't have 'em!  (But I'll rent 'em cheap ...)
Newsgroups: ba.politics