From: aaldrich@encore.com (Al Aldrich)
Subject: Re: Scummy behavior of pagan males
Organization: Encore Computer Corporation
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 21:35:53 GMT

russell@Apple.COM (Russell Williams) writes:

>In article <1992Nov16.102307.44819@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> kumagic@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (Stephen R. Figgins) writes:
>>I can think of plenty more, these just leapt to mind as examples of
>>men's scummy behavior both within and without our community.  I would
>>be interested in hearing others examples of men's scummy behavior
>>within the pagan community.   Or am I the only one who notices this
>>stuff?  It has been said that men within the pagan community were
>>different than men outside the community in their relations to women.
>>I have said this is not very true.  What do others think?

>Certainly there's "scummy" behavior by men toward women within the
>Pagan community. But to claim that because the difference isn't
>absolute and complete there is *no* significant difference is to make a very
>pessimistic and depressing argument. If there aren't more men
>who treat women with respect and fewer men who treat women
>poorly in the Pagan community, that would seem to argue that the
>situation is pretty hopeless. It argues that religions and value
>systems that are respectful of women are irrelevant to male behavior.
>I disagree with this, and also feel that expecting complete change
>is unrealistic, particularly given that the Pagan community exists
>within a much larger and broader sexist culture. 

>I think this is one of the most important things that should be
>taught about living our religion. We have a long way to go,
>but I don't think we've been complete failures at it, either.

I would like to say that I agree with you, but in truth , just realized that
I have very little experience in comparing pagan and non-pagan men. If I
just take my own personal acquaintences, I find that the number of pagans
I `know'(have met) are women by margins of about 10 to 1. The only other
man in my CUUPs chapter treated his kids horribly and was in marriage
crisis when we left New Hampshire 1 year ago. I considered his behaviour 
very scummy. The interesting part is that he WAS trying and was recognizing
his scumminess, just seemed to be unable to do anything about it.
( although I don't think he would appreciate being called scum. I think
  I would prefer to think of it as `programmed'.)

  The majority of pagan men that I know `of' are right here on this net.
  So in theory, and from what I have been able to glean here, it appears
  that the `programmed condition' of men in paganism is much less than
  outside, I cannot personally vouch for that. I think the difference that
  the original poster might be missing is in attitudes toward change as
  opposed to actions. It is very tough to reprogram ourselves but it
  seems to me that the vast majority of pagan men are on the road, while
  others(not pagan), may be still looking for it(the road), and still more don't
  even acknowledge that they are lost( off road :-)

Food for thought.

Blessed Be
al

-- 
Al Aldrich	inet:aaldrich@encore.com
"..if you understood everything I said, you'd be me." miles davis
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