HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: marco@itnsg1.cineca.it (Marco Olivotto)
Subject: Re: Genesis: What everybody misses
Organization: Laboratorio di Fisica Computazionale, INFM. Trento Italia
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 09:12:21 GMT

Ryan.J.Victor@dartmouth.edu (Ryan J. Victor) writes:

>I can't believe the debate that has swept this network! And so
>one-sided! Genesis this and Genesis that; old and new; good and
>garbage; Gabriel and Collins. Relax, most of you have got it all wrong.

	Maybe.

>When Genesis first started they wanted to be a song writing collective;
>they didn't even want to play their stuff, just sell it to bands.

	The only official biography I know (Armando Gallo's "I know what
I like"), comes from a guy who was close to the band for some 8 long years
(and he's also a good friend of mine, by the way). There is no mention of
Genesis wanting to sell their stuff to others. The very first songs were
written and rehearsed at The Charterhouse, where Peter and Tony used to
study, and almost immediately recorded and submitted to Decca, which actual-
ly rejected them he first time (the famous Johnatan King episode started
from that "accident").
	Neither Spencer Bright in his (otherwise crappy) Gabriel's biography
ever mentions this.

>has always written for its current audience. In the seventies, they
>were the cutting edge with their incredibly complex, layered sound and
>their oh so British flair for the fantastic. But as times changed, so
>their music evolved. This is why they are the sole progressive rock
>band to survive the punk era, escaping the label of being antiquated by
>becoming leaner to suit the times. 

	Just a point: please all remember that until 1974 Genesis were
virtually no-one, in spite of the efforts made by Stratton-Smith to push
them up in their own country. Genesis were sort of stars in Italy (my
country), Belgium and possibly some other European countries, but they
were totally pissed off by English and, partially, by Americans.
	I bet they write for their audience - every musician does! But
their potential audience now is of millions; in those days it was of some
thousands, possibly. This changes something, doesn't it?
	As for Charisma and management, I've had quite an interesting chat
with none but Peter Hammill exactly two weeks ago. Things weren't quite as
nice and plain as we would like to believe. Also, it is official that the
band started to pay their debts off just after "A Trick Of The Tail". A lot
is still unknown about the glorious Charisma days.

>been and always will be there in their music. If you don't like
>anything past Gabriel's stuff, I suggest you re-listen to it and think
>about the possibility that your musical tastes haven't evolved. By the

	Agreed, but this doesn't mean that Genesis are as honest as they
were in the past. None could justify a song like "Invisible Touch" played
by THAT band...

>"And God, He's writing the lyrics to a brand new tune"

"In Blood, He's writing the lyrics of a brand new tune".
Justice done :) :) :)!

Bye, M.
From: a908875@tiuk.ti.com (Angus McDonald       (0032 gusm))
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
Subject: Re: the worst genesis song
Date: 31 Jul 92 15:49:37 GMT
Reply-To: a908875@tiuk.ti.com
Organization: Texas Instruments Ltd.

Steve Hastings choice of "Whodunnit" as the worst Genesis song sounds like 
the most sensible choice so far. I would like also like to add "Just A Job To
Do" from "Genesis" as a pretty close contender though. I've even heard Tony Banks
admit that the second size of that album is pretty poor.

Whoever chose "Throwing It All Away" as the worst song - sorry, I disagree, it's
my personal favourite off of "Invisible Touch" !

What I'd like to know is what is everybody's FAVOURITE Genesis song. Or is that 
a forgone conclusion? Is "Supper's Ready" the greatest song in the history of
prog rock? Let's hear what you all think.


P.S. There's heaven ahead in number eleven.
P.P.S. I'm going to see Genesis at Knebworth on Sunday. Anyone else gonna be there?
        If so don't forget to write and say what you think of it.
P.P.P.S. Gabriel's new album will undoubtedly be exquisite.
From: cthulhu@sparky.cis.ufl.edu (Mark Kupper)
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
Subject: Re: Dixie Dregs
Date: 24 Jul 92 14:39:18 GMT
Organization: Univ. of Florida CIS Dept.

In article <1992Jul20.070104.20400@fhg1.fhg.de> weikl@ilt.fhg.de writes:
>
>>I was wondering if anyone could recomend any of the Dixie Dregs' albums?
>> 
>Any - especially "Dregs of the Earth" (sigh, finally someone is mentioning marvellous Steve Morse; did you hear his cd "Southern Steel"? - increadible).

 DOTE is a bit hard to find these days; you'll have to get that on import. I
would only recommend _The Introduction_ for solo Morse stuff. I would 
recommend _Unsung Heroes_ (hard to find), _Night of the Living Dregs_, 
_What If_, and _Free Fall_ for Dregs albums.
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
From: rseguine@buckeye.mitre.org (Roy SeGuine)
Subject: Re: e: What are best albums of Genesis?
Organization: The MITRE Corporation
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 15:20:04 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.235131.20528@leland.Stanford.EDU>  
orpheus@leland.Stanford.EDU (Owen Duncan Smith) writes:
> >> >>> >> > >> >But me... I'm just a lawn mower
> >> >>> >> > >> I can tell by the way you walk.
> >> >>> >> > >It must be a draw...  there's no one left alive.
> >> >>> >> > So the Blackcap Barons toss a coin to settle the score.
> >> >>> >> The Pied Piper takes his children underground
> >> >>> >Mild mannered supermen are held by kryptonite
> >> >>> And the foolish virgins giggle with their bodies' glowing bright
> >> >>Amongst the weeds and slimey waters
> >> >we're gonna make it right - tonight, tonight, tonight   oh, oh
> >> And the seven trumpets blowing sweet rock and roll
> >See me stretch for God's elastic acre
> A flower?!?
>
He places the number into the tube
From: jonathan@sdg.dra.com
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
Subject: Re: Roger Dean Artwork
Date: 29 Jul 92 11:42:15 CDT
Organization: Data Research Associates, St. Louis MO

In article <1992Jul29.153457.4644@bmerh85.bnr.ca>, reaume@bmerh962.bnr.ca (Andy Reaume) writes:
> Does anyone in prog land know if any of Roger Dean's artwork is still
> available in poster form. I had a dozen or so I bought 10 years ago
> at a poster shop on Bank St. in Ottawa. They were recently damaged
> and the store no longer carries them. I can't find anywhere in Ottawa
> or Toronto that carries any of his work. Please reply via 
> alt.music.progressive. 
> 
> - Andy     ``Progressive Rock is the Thinking Man's Rock''

What I wound up doing was purchasing the latest of Dean's books,
"Magnetic Storm", I believe was the title, and carefully cutting out a
couple of the prints that I liked, which I then had framed.  Of course
I needed to buy two copies of the book that way.  I looked for years
for Roger Dean posters and found nothing.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jonathan J. Moss   /   Data Research Associates   / St. Louis, MO  USA
From: johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira)
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
Subject: Re: Dead Can Dance
Keywords: Progressive
Date: 29 Jul 92 22:19:10 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Auspex Systems, Inc.

In article <1992Jul28.172210.6708@bnlux1.bnl.gov> schroede@bnlux1.bnl.gov (gary l. schroeder) writes:
|Progressive music once (in the 70's) meant a particular genre of rock.
|It was a label for the times much like 'punk' or 'acid', etc.  That time
|has elapsed.  Now, "progressive" refers to a select number of bands from
|the 70's.  Generally, Genesis, Yes, ELP, and maybe a couple of others.

A couple of others?  That is the understatement of the year.  Granted, those
seem to be the only groups being discussed here.  I think it's time for a
repost of the progressive rock group list.

-- 
+============================================================================++
| John Fereira            "Is that all you ever think about?"                |
| johnf@auspex.com                                                           |
+============================================================================++
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
From: mkuinder@cape.UWaterloo.ca (Mike Kuindersma)
Subject: Re: Kitten
Keywords: I can top that.
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 19:05:41 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.172309.3068@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> thrash@virginia.edu (Scott Evans) writes:
>
>Just thought everyone would like to know I got a kitten.
>
>Her name is Kayleigh.
>
>
>s

Last year, July 11/91, I got a daughter.  Her name is Kayleigh.
 
:-)
 
  ----- Mike Kuindersma  mkuinder@cape.UWaterloo.ca
 
no snappy .sig!
-- 
*************************************************************************
*  mkuinder@cape.UWaterloo.ca  * Opinions expressed are not those of UW *
*************************************************************************
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
From: malcolm@wrs.com (Malcolm Humes)
Subject: Re: Buying directly from the artist (was Re: Who is 'Progressive' in the 90s)
Keywords: Progressive
Organization: Wind River Systems, Inc.
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 21:53:04 GMT

ranjit@netcom.com (Ranjit Padmanabhan) writes:

>>                 ... Buy direct from the artists when you can and let
>>them make some money for a change instead of it all going to the 
>>middlemen! ...

>I probably have an agenda here, but, if it weren't for the many independent
>mail-order companies who spent money and time distributing and spreading the
>word about Djam Karet's music, it is very unlikely that they would get the
>coverage that they now enjoy. So, before you grudge the "middlemen" their,
>often minimal, cut, it would help to have a broader understanding of the
>dynamics of the music business.

Perhaps I did phrase that a bit poorly...
 
I guess I see both sides of it - I agree on your input (albiet perhaps biased)
but it's also my impression from people I know know press their own music
that few of them make any money at it. Many lose money in pressing and 
promoting their own works. So I think it's fair to give them a little extra
in those few situations where one can support the artist directly. It gives
me a good feeling to have some direct communication with the band, to have
them personally respond to my letter or order.  And from my experience buying 
something direct from the artist is generally less expensive than through
retail or mailorder distributers.  

But it's true, if it weren't for distributers like Wayside and yourself I
might not hear about some release I want or some new band that might interest
me. This would probably be more critical to me if I didn't have Usenet access.
But these days there are so few artists that do press their own releases, and
finding them is difficult. I doubt that much of a distributers catalog is
going to be things that one could buy direct from the artist even if one
wanted to, so I doubt that the distributer could really be hurt by lost sales
from those that do choose to buy direct.
 
In this case I was thinking more of the middlemen being the wholesale 
distributers and the record stores, not speciality services or mailorder 
businesses.

 - malcolm@wrs.com

Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
From: ranjit@netcom.com (Ranjit Padmanabhan)
Subject: Buying directly from the artist (was Re: Who is 'Progressive' in the 90s)
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 00:02:24 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Keywords: Progressive

In article <malcolm.712259227@wrs.com> malcolm@wrs.com (Malcolm Humes) writes:

Regarding Djam Karet:
>                 ... Buy direct from the artists when you can and let
>them make some money for a change instead of it all going to the 
>middlemen! ...

I probably have an agenda here, but, if it weren't for the many independent
mail-order companies who spent money and time distributing and spreading the
word about Djam Karet's music, it is very unlikely that they would get the
coverage that they now enjoy. So, before you grudge the "middlemen" their,
often minimal, cut, it would help to have a broader understanding of the
dynamics of the music business.

Ranjit
From: johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira)
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
Subject: Re: Who is 'Progressive' in the 90s
Keywords: Progressive
Date: 27 Jul 92 21:38:46 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Auspex Systems, Inc.

In article <1992Jul27.164130.22160@bnr.ca> blindsay@bcarh773.bnr.ca (Brian Lindsay) writes:
|So unless
|this group is devoted to 70's Nostalgia, maybe someone could discuss who
|are the best progressive groups working today?  (And what makes them
|"progressive"). 

I agree with this in a way.  If you look at the subject in a.m.p you'll find
that most are devoted to the most mainstream of the progressive group, even
by the standards of the 70's.  Yes, Genesis, ELP, King Crimson, Marillion
are without a doubt the most mainstream groups in the progressive genre. There
are so many other groups that could be discussed.  Those don't necessarily
have to be contempory prog-rock groups.  How about a discussion of Italian
progressive rock groups (PFM being the most well known).  German groups
(Nektar, Amon Duhl,...).  Dutch groups?  Focus has been mentioned but there
are others.  An old favorite that that I've rarely seen discussed anywhere in
the music groups was Man.  

Just to get things started,  I've got an album by a group called "Galaxy".  The
album is called "Natures Clear Well".  I think it's excellent.  Anyone heard
it?  Anyone heard anything else by them?




-- 
+============================================================================++
| John Fereira            "Is that all you ever think about?"                |
| johnf@auspex.com                                                           |
+============================================================================++
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
From: mcmahan@cs.unca.edu (Scott McMahan -- Genesis mailing list owner)
Subject: Re: Will the real Genesis please stand up? 
Organization: University of North Carolina at Asheville
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 21:12:52 GMT

jstimson@jarthur.claremont.edu (John Stimson) writes:

:So I'd have to cast my vote with "Old" Genesis.  I can't
:say where the cutoff would be, but sometime after ATotT and before Genesis.

There sure is a lot of Genesis bashing going on!
This must be put down Genesis week on a.m.p.

People who divide Genesis into pieces are only hurting themselves --
Genesis is a seamless whole, a continuum. Only when you start
arbitrarily dividing them do you find any faults, and those are
created by the way you view Genesis.

Some people don't seem to like the love songs, or the ballads, or
something in the Genesis repertoire -- but the fact is that Genesis
are very diverse and tackle more musical forms than just certain
aspects of progressive rock. There's something there for everyone.

The 'real' Genesis has been, is, and always will be Genesis.

Scott

Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
From: schroede@bnlux1.bnl.gov (gary l. schroeder)
Subject: Re: Flying pianos/Drum clinic ELP
Organization: Brookhaven National Laboratory, Upton, NY 11973
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 13:08:46 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.002951.7577@ultb.isc.rit.edu> jks4675@ritvax.isc.rit.edu writes:

>As for the ego business....nothing to say about Carl Palmer???????
>When somebody asked him what he thought about Neil Peart (RUSH)
>he struck a gong. So much for modesty.

That's very amusing considering the fact that Palmer's drumming (which I
used to idolize) was banal and completely uninteresting on "Black Moon".
For the vast majority of the album, it goes completely unnoticed as a
background "tap", more characteristic of a rythm machine than the
once-great Carl Palmer.

It's unfortunate that he didn't have more class with regards to his
assessment of Neil Peart.  While I'm not a Rabid Rush Fanatic, I do
enjoy their music and have always been greatly impressed with Peart's
innovative drumming.  After seeing Peart's 5 min. solo at a concert a
couple of months ago, I believe that it can hardly be dismissed by a
gong.


-- 
--------------
Gary Schroeder		
schroede@bnlux1.bnl.gov 
Brookhaven National Laboratory     "Home of the Big BNL Burger."
From: johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira)
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
Subject: Re: Roger Dean Artwork
Date: 29 Jul 92 23:59:16 GMT
Organization: Auspex Systems, Inc.

In article <1992Jul29.114215.149@sdg.dra.com> jonathan@sdg.dra.com writes:
>In article <1992Jul29.153457.4644@bmerh85.bnr.ca>, reaume@bmerh962.bnr.ca (Andy Reaume) writes:
|> Does anyone in prog land know if any of Roger Dean's artwork is still
|> available in poster form. I had a dozen or so I bought 10 years ago
|> at a poster shop on Bank St. in Ottawa. They were recently damaged
|> and the store no longer carries them. I can't find anywhere in Ottawa
|> or Toronto that carries any of his work. Please reply via 
|> alt.music.progressive. 
|> 
|> - Andy     ``Progressive Rock is the Thinking Man's Rock''
|
|What I wound up doing was purchasing the latest of Dean's books,
|"Magnetic Storm", I believe was the title, and carefully cutting out a
|couple of the prints that I liked, which I then had framed.  Of course
|I needed to buy two copies of the book that way.  I looked for years
|for Roger Dean posters and found nothing.

I don't know about Roger Dean posters being currently available but I used
to have a poster of the cover of Tales of Topographic Oceans that I used
as a background for a 30 gallon aquarium.  It looked real nice.
-- 
+============================================================================++
| John Fereira            "Is that all you ever think about?"                |
| johnf@auspex.com                                                           |
+============================================================================++
From: dld30@QUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Dave Dooley)
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
Subject: RE:Looking for LEGEND soundtrack
Date: 23 Jul 92 23:57:54 GMT
Reply-To: dld30@QUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Dave Dooley)
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <Brpwzp.1yn@me.utoronto.ca> steinman@me.utoronto.ca (David Steinman) writes:
>ejhupper@rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu (Eric Huppertz) writes:
>
>>Boy, am I having a tough time finding the CD of the soundtrack from
>>the movie _Legend_.  (Tom Cruise)  Music by Tangerine Dream, with
>>one song by Bryan Ferry and one TD song with Jon Anderson (Yes) on the
>>vocals...  I have tried import record stores but no luck, and even
>>Varese Sarabande doesn't carry it.  
>
>>Anyone know where the Legend soundtrack can be ordered on CD?
>
>You and me both!  I tried finding it a couple of years ago, with no luck.
>The best I could do was a 12" EP of Ferry's song (Is Your Love Strong
>Enough(?)).  My understanding is that an LP of the soundtrack was released
>around the time of the movie, and is now out of print, and that no CD was
>ever released.  Good luck.  If you do manage to find out about a CD, pls let
>me know.
>--
>Dave!

I know it exists because I saw it on CD about a month ago. I was in the
sountracks section looking for "La Carrera Panamericana", the "new"
Pink Floyd soundtrack. It wasn't there, but right behind where it should
have been, there was a copy of the Legend soundtrack.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-Dave                     |           If wishes were horses,
--------------------------|           dogfood would be a lot cheaper.
dld30@quts.ccc.amdahl.com |                          -me
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
From: wcsanil@superior.carleton.ca (Anil Prasad)
Subject: Re: Jon and ... Kitaro!
Organization: Carleton University, Ottawa, Canada
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 08:01:21 GMT

In article <92210.002549MWEINTR@auvm.american.edu> MWEINTR@auvm.american.edu writes:
>_Dream_ (not _Dreams_) has been out in the states for over 2 weeks now, and it
>is great!
>
>This is my 1st Kitaro disc (I bought it cuz of Jon), are all Kitaro this good?

Let's just say that animal shelters all over the world are disposing
of their gas chambers and lethal injections and are investing in
CD players and Kitaro CD libraries. Much less cruel, and it
accomplishes the same goal.

>The Anderson tracks are Lady of Dreams, Agreement, and Island of Life... plus
>he does chanting on Dream of Chant, but that's nothing special... 
>His lyrics are also as good as some of his Yes lyrics of late....

Is this supposed to be a positive selling point?

ap
wcsanil@ccs.carleton.ca
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
From: wcsanil@superior.carleton.ca (Anil Prasad)
Subject: ELP compilation details wanted
Organization: The Apathy Research Council of Canada
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 00:22:26 GMT

The new ELP double CD "The Atl-antique Years" has yet to be
released in Canada (so what else is new?). Can someone please
post details about what unreleased/rare stuff is on this thing?

Also, the new Kansas disc has yet to be released by this dubious
"Intersound of Canada" company. Most record stores think I'm an alien
from pluto when I ask them about the new live CD. The sales-geeks
always look at me like I'm completely insane.. the response
usually goes "Kansas broke up over 20 years ago didn't they?"
or "We don't have it on our release sheets, I think you're mistaken
about this" or the best line "We don't carry any of that ethnic
music here."

Gosh, how I love major record chains!!! From the looks of it, the
only requirement for employment at one of these stores is an I.Q.
higher than your shoe size.

Anil Prasad
wcsanil@ccs.carleotn.ca
From: johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira)
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
Subject: Re: Apology
Date: 30 Jul 92 21:12:03 GMT
Organization: Auspex Systems, Inc.

In article <84822@netnews.upenn.edu> jarnot@kin.lap.upenn.edu (Kevin J. Jarnot) writes:
|In article <1992Jul29.033825.3557@cunews.carleton.ca> wcsanil@superior.carleton.ca (Anil Prasad) writes:
|>I think we should rename this newsgroup:
|>
|>alt.music.1970.style.prototypical.blathering.keyboards.progressive.and.not.
|>80s.or.90s.pseudo.alternative.crap.manufactured.by.talentless.morons.
|>and.marketed.by.equally.moronic.record.companies.to.pimply.high.school.
|>students
|>
|
|
|Well, it IS a bit long, but it fits! :-)
|
|Couldn't have said better myself...
|
I disagree.  He left out "pretentious" and "pompous".  Other than that it
was pretty good.

-- 
+============================================================================++
| John Fereira            "Is that all you ever think about?"                |
| johnf@auspex.com                                                           |
+============================================================================++
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
From: gvh@metrosoft.com (Gordon Van Huizen)
Subject: ELP Video
Reply-To: gvh@metrosoft.com (Gordon Van Huizen)
Organization: Metrosoft
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 00:19:18 GMT

Does anybody have a decent copy of ELP performing at California Jam? I  
have the same REALLY bad copy (that contains the ending of Pictures and an  
excerpt from Toccata) that's been floating around for some time. At least  
it contains the flying piano...



-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Van Huizen           vox: 619.488.9411  fax: 619.488.3045
Metrosoft                   gvh@metrosoft.com [NeXTmail welcome]
----------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive