HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ocsinc@netcom.com (Operations Control Systems)
Subject: Math education program for children
Followup-To: poster
Keywords: math, education, child
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 06:30:15 GMT

A new math education program has been uploaded to :
WSMR-SIMTEL2.Army.Mil as

pd1:<msdos.education>
MATHLT13.ZIP   LiltMath: A game-like math drill for age 6-12

It is menu driven, easy to use. There 12 levels and quesions in level
12 are challenging to most of us.

Wuestions can be displyed in vertical or horizontal format.
Answers can be typed in left-ward, right-ward or multi-select.
Score records are kept for each user and each level.

It is tiny, less than 64K, runs on almost any DOC pc.

It is free for shools using it in class rooms.

If you can not get it from the network, send me a mail.

Arthur
From: Christina.Macpherson@f405.n622.z3.fidonet.org (Christina Macpherson)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.math
Subject: taking tests
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 93 16:06:52 PDT
Organization: FidoNet node 3:622/405

To: Carol Hooper

Hello,
I am in Year 5 in Blackalls Public School and I saw
your message about tests. I do better with all tests
when I get to school and find out by surprise that they
are on that day. I do best in maths this way.

My dad is a teacher as well. He always says that he
likes it when kids can work without a warning. He has
a gifted and talented program and he is always giving
surprise challenges just like tests.

Yours,
C.L.M. - Blackalls Park, Lake Macquarie City, Australia


--  
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Internet: Christina.Macpherson@f405.n622.z3.fidonet.org
From: choy@skorpio.usask.ca (I am a terminator.)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.math
Subject: RE: INTEGRALS
Date: 25 Jan 1993 16:44:13 GMT
Organization: University of Saskatchewan, Saskatoon, Canada
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: skorpio.usask.ca

In article <40110.2B5EBAC2@puddle.fidonet.org>, Sheila.King@f315.n103.z1.fidonet.org (Sheila King) writes:
|> Hi Henry Choy,
|> 
|> Reading your message in response to Mike Bouldan, regarding integrating
|> 1/x from -2 to 2 you say:
|> 
|> -> Just integrate from -2 to 0 (NOT FROM 0 to -2) and then from 0 to 2.
|> -> You have to take the limits each time. But what is -infinity +
|> -> infinity? You don't know, so you add the positive and negative halves
|> -> of the series together: i.e. I{0,2}(1/x-1/x)dx = 0 in the limit.
|> 
|> That the answer is zero. Which seems to make sense to me (not that I'm
|> any authority). However, Mike didn't think this was the right answer,
|> and it doesn't agree with Brian Harvey's post, so I'm a little puzzled.
|> Are you _positive_ this is the answer to this problem?

Sorry. I made a mistake. There is no answer. The limit is undefined
because the left and right side limits don't agree (+ and - infinity).
See earlier post.

You can't even use L'Hopital's rule, which is a rule proven for
normal limits, not the Reimann sums used in definite integrals.

-- 

Henry Choy
choy@cs.usask.ca

What rolls down stairs alone or in pairs            This has been brought to 
Rolls over your neighbor's dog?                     you by the numbers 4
What's great for a snack and fits on your back?     and 9 and the letter P.
It's Log, Log, Log!  -- "The Log Song", from            -- Big Bird
                         Ren & Stimpy

Math is tough!       -- Barbie
From: Scott.Inman@f360.n322.z1.fidonet.org (Scott Inman)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.math
Subject: Pre-calc
Date: 27 Jan 93 23:27:53 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:322/360 - Cul De Sac, Holliston MA


Hello everyone!

Let me introduce myself.  I'm Scott Inman, from Abington,
Massachusetts.  I'm presently in my 2nd year of college, and have a
GPA of 3.50.  BUT, I've got a serious problem.  I have failed Pre-calc
twice!  I took it at night school, and failed.  Then, I took it in
full-time college, and failed again.  They did not affect my GPA
because I withdrew from the class before I was forced to recieve a
 grade.  I excel in Algebra I, II , and III, and I
honestly LOVE math/algebra, but I HATE PRE-CALC.  I was wondering, does
anybody have a computer game/learning program lying around that teaches
PRE-CALC?  I would be willing to pay top-dollar to anyone who has a
program that could help me.  Thank you for your time, and hope to hear
from you soon!

Youry truly,
Scott Inman


--  
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Internet: Scott.Inman@f360.n322.z1.fidonet.org
From: Sheila.King@f315.n103.z1.fidonet.org (Sheila King)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.math
Subject: RE: INTEGRALS
Date: 20 Jan 93 02:03:00 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:103/315 - Castle of the Four , Diamond Bar CA

Brian,

Thanks for your post on Mike Bouldan's question about the integral of
1/x from -2 to 2. I found it quite helpful. Let me try to restate what I
*think* you're saying, and you tell me if I've got it.

-> The easiest example to understand is the infinite series
->
->       1 + -1 + 1 + -1 + 1 + -1 + ...
->
-> Using arguments not so very different from yours, we can either say
-> that this is the same as
->
->       (1 + -1) + (1 + -1) + (1 + -1) + ... = 0+0+0+... = 0
->
-> or say that the same series is equal to
->       1 + (-1 + 1) + (-1 + 1) + ... = 1+0+0+0+... = 1
->
-> Nothing is wrong with the manipulation in either case; the trouble is
-> that they don't prove "the answer is 0" or "the answer is 1."  They
-> prove "if there is an answer then it's 0" and "if there is an answer
-> then it's 1."  No contradiction there, since there isn't an answer;
-> the series diverges.

So, what you're saying is that any time a sum or difference involves a
divergent series, there is no answer to the sum or difference? Is this
true in all cases?

-> You can't say "infinity minus infinity is zero"; it could just as
-> well be any finite number (e.g., the number of counting numbers minus
-> the number of positive integers is 1), or infinite (e.g., the number
-> of integers minus the number of positive integers).

But there are techniques for evaluating limits that tend to infinity
minus infinity. These are commonly taught in first year calculus in the
chapter including L'Hopitals rule. How are these different from this
example?

I gotta make sure I know my stuff before I do this next year...

Sheila
coming to you from Diamond Bar, CA (in Los Angeles County)
                                                                                                                  

--  
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Internet: Sheila.King@f315.n103.z1.fidonet.org
From: radcliff@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (David G Radcliffe)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.math
Subject: Re: INTEGRALS
Date: 21 Jan 1993 17:19:26 GMT
Organization: UW-Milwaukee Math Department
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]

I think some people are making this more complicated than it needs
to be.  By definition, I{-2,2} 1/x = I{-2,0} 1/x + I{0,2} 1/x
*provided* that the integrals on the right converge. Both of the
integrals on the right diverge, therefore the integral on the left
diverges.  If you look at the *definition* of an improper integral,
rather than doing a lot of intuitive handwaving, then everything
becomes clear.

--
David Radcliffe                                
radcliff@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
From: Iain.Macpherson@f405.n622.z3.fidonet.org (Iain Macpherson)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.math
Subject: Re: CALCULATORS
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 93 08:53:16 PDT
Organization: FidoNet node 3:622/405

BB>I don't let my students my students at the grade 7 and grade 9
BB>levels of math use calculators that often. When calculators
BB>eliminate needless tedious work then that is fine. I would
BB>rather a student become familiar with various numerical
BB>relationships - and the 'pencil and paper' approach seems to
BB>work very well.

BB>In the 'REAL' world many people do use their own brain to do
BB>calculations instead of pulling out the pocket calculator.
BB>I have nothing against using calculators...and it is up to the
BB>teacher to make it clear to the student when a calculator is a
BB>necessity and when a calculator is a crutch!

       Hear! Hear!

       I'm glad there's a few of us left in the world. I find I'm in agreement with each of your remarks in this context.


--  
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Internet: Iain.Macpherson@f405.n622.z3.fidonet.org
From: Sheila.King@f315.n103.z1.fidonet.org (Sheila King)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.math
Subject: RE: INTEGRALS
Date: 20 Jan 93 01:52:00 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:103/315 - Castle of the Four , Diamond Bar CA

Hi Henry Choy,

Reading your message in response to Mike Bouldan, regarding integrating
1/x from -2 to 2 you say:

-> Just integrate from -2 to 0 (NOT FROM 0 to -2) and then from 0 to 2.
-> You have to take the limits each time. But what is -infinity +
-> infinity? You don't know, so you add the positive and negative halves
-> of the series together: i.e. I{0,2}(1/x-1/x)dx = 0 in the limit.

That the answer is zero. Which seems to make sense to me (not that I'm
any authority). However, Mike didn't think this was the right answer,
and it doesn't agree with Brian Harvey's post, so I'm a little puzzled.
Are you _positive_ this is the answer to this problem?

Sheila
coming to you from Diamond Bar, CA (in Los Angeles County)
                                      

--  
uucp: uunet!m2xenix!puddle!103!315!Sheila.King
Internet: Sheila.King@f315.n103.z1.fidonet.org
From: Andrew.Probert@f20.n772.z3.fidonet.org (Andrew Probert)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.math
Subject: Statistics
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 01:26:06 PDT
Organization: FidoNet node 3:772/20 - IBM NZ Ltd Gate, Auckland

Hi, Crystal. You said

CAJ=8>I just found this area so let me repeat a message I left in
   =8>the general area.  I am beginning a Statistics class in a
   =8>couple of weeks.  Since I have a COMPLETE phobia to math I
   =8>am looking for a modem tutor.  The class will only have
   =8>two tests and lots of ungraded homework.  The topics
   =8>included in this class are analysis of variance and
   =8>multiple regression.
   =8>HELP... If you know this stuff,
   =8>leave me a message

I have done stats to undergraduate university level. In fact, I am
presently finishing off a degree in economics with a bent towards
econometrics, which is largely based on stats.
I would be glad to help you out if you like. However, could you tell me
what maths and stats you already know? Have you already learnt simple
linear regression modelling? Are you familiar with linear algebra?
What topics will your course begin with?


I hope to hear from you,

Yours faithfully,

Andrew
___
 * SLMR 2.0 * Back Up My Hard Drive? I Can't Find The Reverse Switch!


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Internet: Andrew.Probert@f20.n772.z3.fidonet.org
From: choy@dvinci.USask.Ca (Henry Choy)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.math
Subject: Re: heres a question
Date: 27 Jan 1993 22:43:38 GMT
Organization: University of Saskatchewan
NNTP-Posting-Host: dvinci.usask.ca
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

David G Radcliffe (radcliff@csd4.csd.uwm.edu) wrote:
: Brian Mcdonald (Brian.Mcdonald@p4.f18.n128.z1.fidonet.org) wrote:
: : how many polygons are there that all its sides are longer than any of its 
: : diagonals
: : ?????????????????????????peace and i'm outa here
: 
: There are infinitely many.  Consider the polygon ABCD, with
: A = (-2,0), B = (x,1), C = (0,0), and D = (x,-1).  If x > sqrt(3)
: then all the sides are longer than the diagonals.

Let's make it easy: consider any diamond (let's start with a rhombus).
Draw the diagonals. Take hold of two corners joined by a diagonal.
Pull apart along the infinite line containing the diagonal and you get
a shape whose sides are the longer than the shorter diagonal. The
short diagonal is the shortest side of two (isosceles) triangles.

Now draw a different polygon and its diagonals. Keep one of these
diagonals fixed and pull the other corners until the sides are longer
than the poor old diagonal.

Now how many polygons are there that all its sides are longer than all
its diagonals?
 
--

Henry Choy
choy@cs.usask.ca

What rolls down stairs alone or in pairs            This has been brought to 
Rolls over your neighbor's dog?                     you by the numbers 4
What's great for a snack and fits on your back?     and 9 and the letter P.
It's Log, Log, Log!  -- "The Log Song", from            -- Big Bird
                         Ren & Stimpy

Math is tough!       -- Barbie
From: Christina.Macpherson@f405.n622.z3.fidonet.org (Christina Macpherson)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.math
Subject: Calculators in school
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 93 16:06:18 PDT
Organization: FidoNet node 3:622/405

To: Brian Bridal

Hello,
I am in Year 5 in Blackalls Public School and I do not
agree with having calculators out all the time in class.
They are a help sometimes but the let silly kids be lazy
and not use their brains.
My dad teaches too. In some classes, he gives rewards to
kids who don't use calculators. Some kids end up faster
without them.
I will have to practise my tables before school starts
in February. I've done no practise in a month.

Yours,
C.L.M. - Blackalls Park, Lake Macquarie City, Australia


--  
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Internet: Christina.Macpherson@f405.n622.z3.fidonet.org
From: Brian.Mcdonald@p4.f18.n128.z1.fidonet.org (Brian Mcdonald)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.math
Subject: Re: Who were medalists in Math Olympiad for past 20 years?
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 19:21:36 PDT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:128/18.4 - D-20 Ed Network, Colorado Springs CO

i don't know but i think anyone who cares who wins a test that takes 5 hours 
to take is pretty weird



--  
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Internet: Brian.Mcdonald@p4.f18.n128.z1.fidonet.org
From: choy@skorpio.usask.ca (I am a terminator.)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.math
Subject: Re: TAKING TESTS
Date: 25 Jan 1993 18:03:21 GMT
Organization: University of Saskatchewan, Saskatoon, Canada
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: skorpio.usask.ca

In article <40925.2B615DB5@puddle.fidonet.org>, Sheila.King@f315.n103.z1.fidonet.org (Sheila King) writes:
|> Dear Christina,
|> 
|> In a message to Carol Hooper you said:
|> 
|> -> I am in Year 5 in Blackalls Public School and I saw
|> -> your message about tests. I do better with all tests
|> -> when I get to school and find out by surprise that they
|> -> are on that day. I do best in maths this way.
|> 
|> That is interesting, that you prefer to have surprise tests rather than
|> scheduled ones. However, I wonder, do you think there might be some kids
|> who have trouble with math, that if they are surprised with a test get
|> so nervous about it that they do poorly. In other words, if they knew
|> the test was coming ahead of time, they might feel less nervous about
|> the test since they had already had a chance to be certain they were
|> prepared, and as a result they do better on the test?

I find that exams are boring because I've solved so many problems
beforehand. But you have to really understand the concepts to work out
a lot of problems and see a lot of different problem scenarios. I like
to work a problem out to the extent that the answer is obvious. I might
just need to write a hint or a procedure for getting the answer. I like
to solve many problems of different types and to see different scenarios
of the same problem type. Definitions of things like addition, subtraction,
multiplication, division, positive, negative, number (real, rational,
irrational, natural, integer, imaginary, complex), exponent, function,
relation, set, equality, order, and, or, not, implies, for all, there
exists, operation, solution, prime, factorial, permutation, combination,
probability, etc. should be known by heart. These ideas can be motived
from everyday affairs and applied to these affairs. I see these ideas
as interesting for their own sake, and I generalize on mathematics to
explore new ideas.

-- 

Henry Choy
choy@cs.usask.ca

What rolls down stairs alone or in pairs            This has been brought to 
Rolls over your neighbor's dog?                     you by the numbers 4
What's great for a snack and fits on your back?     and 9 and the letter P.
It's Log, Log, Log!  -- "The Log Song", from            -- Big Bird
                         Ren & Stimpy

Math is tough!       -- Barbie
From: Sarah.Camp@f40.n2310.z1.fidonet.org (Sarah Camp)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.math
Subject: hi
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 93 09:09:00 PDT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:2310/40 - EVSC BBS, Evansville IN

Hi
  My name is Sarah Camp. What is your name?  I have one sister and four
 brothers. Do you have a sister or brother? I like sports. Do you like sports?
 I have two mothers and two dads.  Do you have a mom or dad? 

--  
uucp: uunet!m2xenix!puddle!2310!40!Sarah.Camp
Internet: Sarah.Camp@f40.n2310.z1.fidonet.org
From: cb919@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike Bolduan)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.math
Subject: Re: STRANG'S CALCULUS TEXT
Date: 27 Jan 1993 02:19:48 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Sheila, here is the scoop oj Gilbert Strang's book:
Calculus   by Gilbert Strang
pub by Wellesley Cambridge Press   Box 82-279
Wellesley  MA  02181
1991     ISBN   )-9614088-2-0
Ph is  617-431-8488   (the puiblisher, NOT Strang! :-)  )
It is an EXCELLENT book for a teacher of calculusd to have
on their bookshelf -- I am not quite as sure whether
you would want to actually adopt it and use it with kids
in high school.

mike
-- 
mike bolduan
bolduan@catlin
Newsgroups: k12.ed.math
From: apk@athena.mit.edu (Alan Kaufman)
Subject: Re: heres a question
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 20:24:24 GMT

Every polygon has a "convex corner?"  Err, what is a convex corner?

[The intersection of a finite set of convex regions is convex, and a planar
pologon is the intersection of a finite number of half-planes
(which are convex), so "polygon" implies a convex figure. ]
From: Felix.Grant@p10.f17.n258.z2.fidonet.org (Felix Grant)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.math
Subject: bicycle gear ratios
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 11:59:22 PDT
Organization: FidoNet node 2:258/17.10 - Hollingworth High S, Milnrow

Quoting:
  Fri 15 Jan 93  7:29
     By: William I Johnston
     To: All

 > Does anyone know how many teeth are on each of the gears
 > (front and rear) of a typical ten-speed bicycle?

I don't know about the US, but in the UK there *is no* "typical" number in that sense.  The balance between chainwheel and sprockets varies, for the same ratios - even between different examples of the same model.  Suggest asking a bicycle store for approximate values.

 > What kinds of questions would you ask high school students
 > about this to teach ratio concepts?

I would be inclined to ask the students to count the teeth on a real bicycle, then use the reulting data ... much more experiential involvement, wider skills development, better education.  Also ask them to find out what ratios are appropriate for particular applications that interest them (a particular road race, or a cyclocross over Mt Hood, perhaps?) then draw up practical ways in which these ratios might be made up from stocks actually available at their local cycle shop.

Felix


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From: Sheila.King@f315.n103.z1.fidonet.org (Sheila King)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.math
Subject: TAKING TESTS             
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 18:15:00 PDT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:103/315 - Castle of the Four , Diamond Bar CA

Dear Christina,

In a message to Carol Hooper you said:

-> I am in Year 5 in Blackalls Public School and I saw
-> your message about tests. I do better with all tests
-> when I get to school and find out by surprise that they
-> are on that day. I do best in maths this way.

That is interesting, that you prefer to have surprise tests rather than
scheduled ones. However, I wonder, do you think there might be some kids
who have trouble with math, that if they are surprised with a test get
so nervous about it that they do poorly. In other words, if they knew
the test was coming ahead of time, they might feel less nervous about
the test since they had already had a chance to be certain they were
prepared, and as a result they do better on the test?

Sheila
coming to you from Diamond Bar, CA (in Los Angeles County)
                                                                         

--  
uucp: uunet!m2xenix!puddle!103!315!Sheila.King
Internet: Sheila.King@f315.n103.z1.fidonet.org
From: cb919@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike Bolduan)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.math
Subject: Re: INTEGRALS
Date: 21 Jan 1993 17:41:32 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


David Radcliffe:

YES!!!!
You said it much better than I could have. It is a matter of 
definition and a definition is "what we say it is". We have the 
right to define anything we want in any way we wish. It is a 
"bad" definition (and hence should probably not have been 
made) if it leads to "nastiness" (e.g., contradictions) down the 
road.
This reminds me just a tad about the huge debate a couple of 
years ago about the meaning of 0^0. (and please let's just let 
sleeping dogs lie!)This also is a matter of how we wish to 
define something.
If I had read a bit more about improper integrals I would 
have quickly found the part that defines the "sum" of two 
integrals as divergent if EITHER (or both) of the integrals 
which make it up are divergent. This is the case here, so: end 
of story. The integral of 1/x from -1 to 1 is divergent and 
NOT ZERO. Sometimes "common sense" takes it in the ear...   
:-)
BTW I would highly recommend a couple of books for 
people interested in calculus as it (should) be taught these 
days:
1) The new material by the Harvard Consortium published 
by Wiley
2) The book by Dick and Patton which integrates (sorry 
'bout that!   :-))  technology into the class)
3) Calculus by Gilbert Strang which is a VERY interesting 
book (although 'tain't cheap!)

Looks like I got folks thinking a bit. Neat-O
mike



bolduan@catseq.catlin.edu    internet
bolduan@catlin     bitnet
-- 
mike bolduan
bolduan@catlin