Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Spike Lee
From: ljones@andrew.ATL.GE.COM (LeRoy E Jones)
Date: 3 Nov 1992 15:06:10 GMT
Organization: GE Aerospace, Advanced Technology Labs
NNTP-Posting-Host: andy.atl.ge.com

In article <ZouJTB1w163w@peewee> peewee@infoserv.com (Philip Stromer) writes:
>>In article <1992Oct31.223326.14751@sbcs.sunysb.edu>, Ronald Johnson writes:
>>First of all, a lot of inner city parents may not have the money to send 
>>their children to private schools
>
>I know.  If parents had CHOICE in schools, this problem could improve.
>The child could take the $6K received from the feds and take it to
>whatever school the parents wish to take him to.  This would force the
>lousy schools out of business.  I'm all ears if anyone has a better
>solution.

Well, assuming that the figure given to parents across the board is indeed $6K,
which I really doubt would happen, What happens to the children once schools
get over crowded, and people are forced to go to those "leftover" schools? What
is the quality of education there? Schools have a minimum operation cost, and
if enrollment is too low, it becomes a drain on the system, and needs subsidies
anyway. If it is made up of kids who couldn't get into other schools because
they were too crowded, or the schools are too far, or whatever, what will the
difference be between that and what we have now?


>>...also, who's the say that these private schools will teach the truth 
>>that these public schools arent
>
>You should be able to send your kid to any school you wish.  If the
>school's shit stinks, take your kid to another school.  Right now,
>you don't even have a choice.

As I pointed out above, with vouchers, you may not have a choice either.


>>...also the public school education isnt all together useless, the point 
>>in which all of this back and forth replies stems from my point that the 
>>public school history books refuse to tell the truth, refuse to give black 
>>people their props, all my public school life Ive read about all these white heroes, and
>>the only black person I read about was Martin Luther King
>
>I guess I must've went to better public schools here in San Jose.  I
>remember well learning at a young age about Crispus Attucks and
>Marcus Garvey and Tuskegee Institute and Nat Turner and George
>Washington Carver and Rosa Parks (who I've met and spoken with!).

Yeah, I bet the quality of education was better than say, Philly (where I
went to public school). My high school was named after G. W. Carver, and
I never heard his name mentioned in any history class of mine. Public schools
aren't all bad, but the degree of "badness" is proportional with the degree
of poverty in the area. Also, the point is that a people who forget their
freedom story are doomed to be enslaved again. THE MOST IMPORTANT THING FOR
A BLACK CHILD TO LEARN IS BLACK HISTORY!! If in Philly, where blacks are 40%
of almost 2 million, Black History is neglected, distorted, and trivialized,
how can I call that education. So what that I get to choose which one of the
knives stab me...I'll still die.


>>My earliest memory of Malcolm X was that he was this evil viscious violent 
>>man..Shows how they attempt to distort the intent of blacks who were tired 
>>of being yes men
>
>Do you deny that Malcolm X said, in a public speech, that "everybody's
>wet-eyed over a handful of Jews who brought it upon themselves", in 
>referring to the Holocaust?  I'll provide the exact date and location
>if you so desire.  David Duke used to be a Klansman, but he never
>hanged anyone.  He says he's changed, that he's a new man.  Why not
>give him the same benefit that you give Malcolm X?  Personally, I
>think both of them have skeletons in their closet that forbids me
>from ever truly liking either one of them.  It's a Jewish thing.

Well, I won't try to trivialize the Holocaust...it was a tragedy. Now,
as to this quote, I need to read the speech to get the context down. Knowing
Malcolm X's general message, I would guess this interpretation. First, the
number of Jews that died in the Holocaust is a "handful" compared to the
number of Africans that died in Africa, middle passage, and slavery. 
Second, if I am trying to inspire a people against apathy, and toward
empowerment and control of their own destiny, I might point at another
group, who everyone knows, that was the victim of severe injustice, and say
they didn't do enough to prevent the tragedy (i.e.- brought it on themselves).
The tactic is just to empower one group, not necessarily to trivialize 
another's struggle. Again, I need to read the speech for context.


>>Accept it, the public education teaches HIStory, not history
>
>Then why don't you or some other leading black historians get jobs
>in public schools and teach "history" instead of "HIStory"?  
>Perhaps the white teachers are all wrong in their history lessons.
>These conspiracy theories are easy to make, but exceedingly difficult 
>to prove.  When it comes to historical revisionism, the burden of proof
>is on the revisionist.  Clarence Page, a (black liberal) editorial
>writer for the Chicago Tribune, even disses historical revisionism.

Easier said than done, but some are trying. The fact is, we need to get people
involved in a lot of areas and professions. Everyday role models are as 
important as good teachers. We need the engineers, scientists, judges, doctors,
mayors, and just good upstanding citizens. Some people are taking education
into their own hands, but I think there needs to be a fundamental change in
attitude of all the people.


>>Also, I notice that you tend to always bring up the fact that youre married
>>to a black woman anytime someone accuses you of being racist 
>
>Damn straight, baby!  When someone calls me a racist, just because I don't
>agree with him on a certain topic, that's bullshit!  If I'm such a racist,
>I most likely would have excluded black women from my marriage pool, no?
>
>>Why do you have to keep bringing her up, is this supposed to prove 
>>something? 
>
>Yes, that I'm NOT a racist.  But the REAL reason I'm even chatting here
>is because Dianne (that's her name) doesn't believe me that there are
>people that actually refuse to condemn the LA riots.  This newsgroup
>has proven my point.  She's really reeling.  When she saw the LA riots,
>she wanted to line up the rioters and shoot 'em on sight.  All of 'em.

Having a black wife doesn't exclude you from being a racist. I am not calling
you one, but I just want to point out that if the woman has a low self image,
a racist may be able to pull her because she doesn't think she worth more.
Also, a racist can have can think s/he isn't one, and often doesn't...usually
by that same argument  of knowing/marrying/supporting some member(s) of an 
oppressed racial group. I don't know you at all well enough to make that kind
of judgement about you, so please don't think I'm calling you a racist, or that
I'm insulting your family.


>What's even worse is that White America (tm) was PISSED OFF at the
>Rodney King verdict.  Then the riots came, and White America 
>was even MORE pissed off at the rioters.  Rodney King kinda fell
>into the background.  If IDIOTS like Ethyl Waters would have
>just condemned the rioters from the start, White America  would
>probably have re-focused on Rodney King.  But nooo, she blamed White
>America  for the Rodney King verdict.  She blamed White America 
>for the riots.  Individual responsibility played no role.    

Well, the shoe fits in many senses. It isn't that she absolved the rioters of
any wrong doing, it's just that the view that they were just crazies and 
opportunists had to be combatted. The point is that the enabling factors
which led to the riots are *not* the fault of those in South Central. That's
just the truth. It's like saying a woman was wrong to stab a man who repeatedly
raped her...yeah, murder is wrong, but she had just cause and everyone needs
to look at the situation she was in before they pass judgement and say she's
a cold blooded killer.


>Thanx, same to you and yours, and may we find a mutually amicable solution
>that the rest of the country can also live with.

Nice wish...I hope so too.
>
>--Philip Stromer (peewee@infoserv.com)


	- Lee (ljones@atl.ge.com)