HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hshubs@eff.org (Howard Shubs)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Computer-related (well, not really) auto license tags
Date: 17 Apr 92 04:38:53 GMT
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Originator: hshubs@eff.org

In article <1992Apr17.031653.11680@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> ptd2@po.CWRU.Edu (Palmer T. Davis) writes:
[text deleted]
>(wondering whether a car is a block or a character device)

Seems to me that it'd depend on who's using it.  :-)
-- 
Howard S Shubs      hshubs@eff.org      I don't represent the EFF,
The Denim Adept     hshubs@BIX.com      but I do agree with them.
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva)
Subject: Re: Sig style
Organization: Taronga Park BBS
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 21:50:23 GMT

Jay.Ashworth@f160.n3603.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jay Ashworth) writes about my .sig:
>Delightful.  But you oughtta use a nicer font...

What would you suggest? I wanted to stroke the quote in cooper black, but ran
out of room. The wolf should probably be done in LucidaSans-Typewriter, but
hardly anyone has that. Helvetica or Palatino? No? How about Hershey-Plain?
-- 
/F{findfont exch scalefont setfont}def /S{moveto show}def /T{/Times-Roman F}def
6 T (Have you hugged your wolf today?)468 20 S 9 T (Taronga Park BBS)24 35 S 10
/Courier F(`-_-')488 40 S ( 'U` )488 30 S 6 T (+1 713 568 0480 2400/n/8/1)24 27
S (+1 713 568 1032 Trailblazer)24 20 S 12 T (Peter da Silva)24 45 S showpage
From: jlowrey@skat.usc.edu (John 'Fritz' Lowrey)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Sinclair Lore Query
Date: 15 Apr 1992 19:54:31 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: skat.usc.edu

In article <1992Apr16.021018.28122@descartes.waterloo.edu> dagbrown@descartes.waterloo.edu (Dave Brown) writes:
>In article <1992Apr13.094328.1@mdcbbs.com> rivero@mdcbbs.com writes:
>>
>>  Found a working Sinclair with memory expansion and some tape programs 
>>for $5 at a yard sale over the weekend. Anyone have interesting stories about
>>this little machine?
>>
>I remember using one of those!  Is it the ZX80, ZX81, or the Spectrum?
>
>I remember when the Spectrum first came out it was billed as featuring
>"color and sound"  .  Not "more colors" or "Better sound..."   just
>"color and sound."  The ZX80 had about 1K of RAM, and the ZX81 had a tiny
>amount more and a calculator keyboard (not just a flat
>piece of plastic...).  At any rate, I encountered a Spectrum
[ ... edited ... ]
>				Dave Brown
>				dagbrown@descartes.waterloo.edu
>				I'd rather be using TECO.

	Wrongo Dave!
	The keyboard on the ZX81 is the same flat, membrane keyboard that
graced the ZX80.  An interesting piece of work, but a real snarl to actualy
use (touch typing?  forget it!).
	My father tracked down a third party memory board for ours, so we 
had a whole 64KB.  My biggest peev about the machine was the darn power
cord.  Our was never well seated, and the slightest bump would cut the
power, and you know what that means |-}.
	I still have it, and I have toyed with the idea of trying to cobble
together a terminal program for it and a null modem to connect the edge
strip on the back to an RS232 port on my UnixPC.  It'll prob'ly never
happen though.

						Lovin' the Z80,
						Fritz


-- 
        "I've never seen a purple cow,         | J. "Fritz" Lowrey
         I hope I never see one,               | USC Computer Consulting
         But, let me tell you, here and now,   | Internet: jlowrey@usc.edu
         I'd rather see than be one."          | UUCP:     !uunet!usc!jlowrey
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: You kyou've been in hack mode too long ...
Date: 14 Apr 92 11:00:01 GMT
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway

In <11203@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu> mwt@bcm.tmc.edu (Man Wei Tam) writes:

>... you start dreaming code

If I've really been working hard I find myself waking up suddenly.
Maybe I'm dreaming code and it dumps core...
-- 
/|/-\/-\          The entire kitchen is		Jerusalem
 |__/__/_/        still full of strange hamantaschen
 |warren@         And the custodian
/ nysernet.org    is starting to get worried.
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: markg@pdx077 (Mark Gonzales)
Subject: Re: Space Shuttle Computers
Organization: Intel Corp., Hillsboro, Oregon
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 20:00:23 GMT

>witczak@romeo.egr.msu.edu (Mark Witczak) writes:
>
>	He finished the speech by saying that in the future NASA will be 
>using off the shelf components. I seriously doubt that you'll see a 386 
>or a 68000 on it anytime soon.  I would be willing to bet my career that 
>the shuttle will never say INTEL INSIDE.

No, you can buy Mil Spec Intel i386 and i486 CPUs now.  The Intel
Military data book says class S qualified parts are available, which I
think means space qualified. 

Mark
--
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: You know you've been in hack mode too long when...
From: geoff@satori.equinox.gen.nz (Geoff McCaughan)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 92 23:37:42   M
Organization: The Equinox Network CHCH NZ (Node SATORI)

evilted@vesta.unm.edu () writes:

> ...you're looking for your hilighter and you think:
> find . -pen HiLiter -print

You fumble dialling the telephone, and make a stab for the backspace
key [and wonder why the numbers aren't coming up on your screen].

| Geoff - Sysop Equinox (equinox.gen.nz) +64 (3) 3854406 (4 Lines)
| Email:  geoff@satori.equinox.gen.nz
|         "If I post something lucid, is that satorial eloquence?"
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: hshubs@eff.org (Howard Shubs)
Subject: Re: Why is a byte called a byte?
Originator: hshubs@eff.org
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 04:32:43 GMT

In article <0dvGY1q00Vsa4=5gBt@andrew.cmu.edu> "Joseph M. Newcomer" <jn11+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>>pic@igc.org writes:
>> 
>>>Can anyone out there tell me why a byte is called a byte?  Who
>>>came up with the term?  When was it first used?
>> 
>>No, a byte is not called a byte. It is called an etyb.
>
>No, it is called a ybet, or possibly a teby.  Depends on the endianess of
>the original machine.  I've seen both permutations, but never etyb.

You should get yer hands on a stack-based machine, then.

-- 
Howard S Shubs      hshubs@eff.org      I don't represent the EFF,
The Denim Adept     hshubs@BIX.com      but I do agree with them.
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: Brian Ridgely <ridgelyb@copper.ucs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Virus Jokes
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 19:28:21 GMT

Wanted: Virus Jokes

Some friends and I are discussing the evolution of computer jokes
and are particularly interested in jokes about computer viruses.
Do any of you know some?  (Jokes, that is, not viruses!  :-)
We would appreciate if you could mail or post any jokes you
remember, from the earliest up to the Michaelangelo jokes, along
with your best guess on the year.  Thanks!

Brian Ridgely
ridgely@alma.edu 
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: wcsjc@alfred.carleton.ca (John Coughlin)
Subject: Re: CP-6?
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 21:17:08 GMT

In <9671@bnr-rsc.UUCP> christo@bcarh803.BNR.CA (Mark Christopher) writes:

>I don't recall much about the on-line help.  What I do remember is that
>the text for the various errors the system spewed out were looked up in
>a file.  A friend of mine told me that one April 1st, the error messages
>magically became some strange combination of pig-latin and rhyming slang...

God!  Another computer Urban Legend!
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: Mark Crispin <mrc@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU>
Subject: microwaves
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Organization: University of Washington
Mime-Version: 1.0
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 22:59:19 GMT

That story about burning a potato in the microwave due to its lousy interface
brings back memories.

The timer on a microwave oven, like a speedometer, is one of those devices
that should be *REQUIRED* to be analog.  The sheer idiocy of digital input and
display on such a thing boggles the imagination.  The designers responsible
for such crap should be drawn & quartered, and their offspring sterilized so
that the defective genes die out...  ;-}

This isn't even something new.  During WWII, the RAF was trying to find out
why so many of their pilots were crashing.  It turned out to be the fault of
the new-fangled digital altimeter some designer thought would be cute.  The
pilots simply could not process the information from the device, particularly
during manuevers.  The result -- still used today -- is an analog device with
digital used solely to represent 1000s of feet.  This is straight out of first
semester of industrial design.

A good book to read about how things should be designed is Donald A. Norman's
`The Psychology of Everyday Things.'  The Japanese translation (which I
assisted in) is `Dare no tame no DESAIN?'.
From: bosman@fwi.uva.nl (Dr.D)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Why Grey? Are computer unhappy objects?
Date: 14 Apr 92 16:20:47 GMT
Organization: FWI, University of Amsterdam

baylock@meltdown.chi.il.us (Mike Andersen) writes:

>In article <1992Apr11.043224.25604@thoth.rent.com>, azog@thoth.rent.com (Billy
>D'Augustine) writes:
>>You know, Ive been following this thread for some time now, but so far
>>I havent seen a explanation as to _why_ computers are mostly grey?
>>

>Probably because grey is a neutral color and will go well with most other
>furnishings/colors in a office or home.

Is grey a color? 
-- 
|bosman@fwi.uva.nl_   //    |  Honest Officer , had I known my health       |
|-----------------\\ //AMIGA|  stood in jeopardy I would never had lit one. |
|   [  PE  ]       \//      |              -MAXIM (of the Hells Angels)-    |
|__________ Quickly Scotty,beam me up.There is no ox..y..ge...______________|
From: Jay.Ashworth@f160.n3603.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jay Ashworth)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: WAR GAMES II, or How I Learned To Start Worrying And Hate The Bomb
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 14:23:00 EDT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:3603/160 - Hacker's Haven, Clearwater FL

In a msg of <Friday April 10 1992>, Eric S. Raymond wrote to All:

 >> Nice job!
 ESR> Thanks.  To *all* of you.  The volume of fan mail has been remarkable;
 ESR> I'm gratified that so many enjoyed this mini-epic.

Count me in.

Are you going to post the risks post-script?  Or should I? :-)

Cheers,
-- jra

(BTW: I gather you mailed me the unix FAQ thingie..  I got headers but no body.  How long is it?  Maybe we should try jra%acorn@tct.com)

--  
Internet: Jay.Ashworth@f160.n3603.z1.FIDONET.ORG
UUCP: ...!uunet!ndcc!tct!psycho!160!Jay.Ashworth
Note:psycho is a free gateway between Usenet & Fidonet. For info write to
     root@psycho.fidonet.org.
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,talk.bizarre
From: avg@uunet.uu.net (Vadim Antonov)
Subject: Re: Help me upgrade my computer
Organization: Berkeley Software Design                
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 22:08:47 GMT

Real hackers usually have their machines undecorated with all
covers removed for easier access and better ventilation (though
i know a machine which wouldn't work without covers due to heating
problems! PC is not a case, though).

Vadim Antonov
Berkeley Software Design, Inc.
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: fstuart@eng.auburn.edu (Frank Stuart)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Disk and Drive incompatible....
Keywords: Disk 3.5 5.25 Formatting
Date: 11 Apr 92 20:45:18 GMT
Organization: Auburn University Engineering

In article <9204101748.25@rmkhome.UUCP> rmk@rmkhome.UUCP (Rick Kelly) writes:
>
>This doesn't seem to work reliably under MSDOS. 

Do you know of anything that does?  :>


Frank Stuart           |   Slower traffic keep right.  |  Don't Panic!
fstuart@eng.auburn.edu |   MMMMMmmmmm lutefisk.        |  Never moon a werewolf.
From: jch+@cs.cmu.edu (Jonathan Hardwick)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Mel: Fact or Fiction?
Date: 12 Apr 92 01:53:26 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

In article <ZVGEA3F@taronga.com> peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) writes:
> In article <1g4zD0#5Y7TMc91F3txBBKKvL5OsXmP=eric@snark.thyrsus.com> eric@snark.thyrsus.com (Eric S. Raymond) writes:
> >I have a dim memory of someone (perhaps Ed Nather) telling me of a connection
> >between Royal-McBee and Litton Industries.  It may be that the Litton 1230
> >is the same machine with a different faceplate, or a close relative.
> 
> Sounds like this machine is a dead cert for the Computer Folklore Museum.
> 
> Now we just need a Computer Folklore Museum.

The Computer Museum in Boston might be persuaded to find some space
for the beast, perhaps in their "timeline" of computers. 

> A copy of the blackjack program listing would help...

They have touch-screen displays scattered along the timeline.  All you
need is someone to write a simulator of the Litton 1230 that talks to
one of these screens, and Mel's code could be resurrected to play
against visitors.  Put a pretty-printed version of the poem/epic next
to the display, and away you go.  For extra style points, add a
graphical simulation of the machine grabbing instructions off drum as
it plays the game, and let the visitors marvel at the optimized way
the head moves over the drum.

I'm sure Mel would appreciate it.

Jonathan H.
From: Charlie_Gibbs@mindlink.bc.ca (Charlie Gibbs)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: You know you've been in hack mode too long when...
Date: 17 Apr 92 00:34:17 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

In article <1992Apr16.095950.4103@pollux.lu.se> magnus@thep.lu.se
(Magnus Olsson) writes:

>I once read an SF story about a man who had lost his SSN, or maybe
>just his Smart Card or something, in a future USA where everything
>was computerized. In order to survive, he had to persuade other people
>to buy him food, because no restaurants accepted cash. Scary.

     I once heard that someone's ID was stolen by a person who
committed further crimes and was caught.  The criminal record was
entered against the original victim's SSN, which caused him no end
of problems.  When he tried to get his record cleared, he was told
(by a bureaucrat no doubt) that that couldn't be done, and that
he'd have to get a new SSN.

     I can't remember where or when this was supposed to have
happened.  It might be an Urban Legend, but considering how
bureaucracies work I wouldn't be too sure.

>It's not quite that bad (yet) in Seden, of course - you can survive
>excellently without a SSN, although your employer may have some
>difficulty paying you - but you'd be effectively dead to the
>authorities until you were found out.

     Sort of like the "blanks" in Max Headroom's world.  It sounds
attractive sometimes...

Charlie_Gibbs@mindlink.bc.ca
"I'm cursed with hair from HELL!"  -- Night Court
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: prp@SSD.intel.com (Paul Pierce)
Subject: Re: Mel: Fact or Fiction?
Reply-To: prp@SSD.intel.com (Paul Pierce)
Organization: Intel Scientific Computers
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 01:25:08 GMT

In article <1992Apr12.015326.293691@cs.cmu.edu>, jch+@cs.cmu.edu (Jonathan Hardwick) writes:
|> In article <ZVGEA3F@taronga.com> peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) writes:
|> > In article <1g4zD0#5Y7TMc91F3txBBKKvL5OsXmP=eric@snark.thyrsus.com> eric@snark.thyrsus.com (Eric S. Raymond) writes:
|> > 
|> > Sounds like this machine is a dead cert for the Computer Folklore Museum.
|> 
|> The Computer Museum in Boston might be persuaded to find some space
|> for the beast, perhaps in their "timeline" of computers. 
|> 
|> > A copy of the blackjack program listing would help...
|> 
|>                                                           ...  All you
|> need is someone to write a simulator of the Litton 1230 that talks to
|> one of these screens, and Mel's code could be resurrected to play
|> against visitors.
|> 
|> I'm sure Mel would appreciate it.
|> 
|> Jonathan H.

The programming system for this machine (as shipped by Litton) is pretty silly.
The "operating system" is an interpreter for a machine language for a
dumber machine (which is quite a trick). People were supposed to write programs
directly in the interpreted machine language, and its likely thats what the
slot machine program is written in.

The interpreted machine instruction set is documented, but the instruction set
of the actual machine is not (as far as I could tell, and I have maintenance
documentation.) I figured out the real hardware instruction set by looking at
the logic equations or something (it was several years ago) and tested some
of the instructions.

Mel's blackjack program was certainly written in the hardware instruction set.
From a description of the RPC-4000 I saw once, I think it might have been a
more powerful machine than the Litton 1230.

My 1230 is about the only machine I have that the Computer Museum either doesn't
have one of already or doesn't need because of IBM's excellent collection. But
they do have a Royal-McBee LGP-30, which is a much more interesting machine.

Anyway, if someone found Mel's blackjack program and it would run on a 1230, I
can in principle supply documentation for a simulator and copies of test tapes.


-- 
Paul Pierce			prp@ssd.intel.com
Intel
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: You know you've been in hack mode too long when...
From: derek@fivegl.co.nz (Derek Tearne)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 01:54:30 GMT
Reply-To: derek@fivegl.co.nz (Derek Tearne)
Organization: Task Management Ltd, Auckland, New Zealand

In article <amon.703012768@Xenon.Stanford.EDU> amon@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Laurent Amon) writes:
>hseung@retina.anatomy.upenn.edu (Hyunsuk Seung) writes:
>
>>In article <4jtj67k@lynx.unm.edu> evilted@vesta.unm.edu writes:
>>>...you're looking for your hilighter and you think:
>>>find . -pen HiLiter -print
>>> 
>>> additions?
>
>>... you want more coffee and you think:
>
>>finger waiter; cat *coffee* | grep -v decaff | drink | more
>
>Some months ago, late at night, hacking on a project, I was trying to get at
>some munchies, and having problems to open them (fingers stayed in keyboard
>mode). I found myself thinking:
>
>Finger: Error, cannot open chocolate_bar.

Or the time I woke up with a severe hangover and can remember this
thought:

Error: Hard disk not found - attempting to boot from floppy disk


-- 
Derek Tearne      derek@fivegl.co.nz | If yo
  rek      l   .nz                   | yo
New Zea
and while he wasn't looking the .sig eaters were busy at work
From: kevind@pogo.wv.tek.com (Kevin Draz)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Mel: Fact or Fiction?
Date: 9 Apr 92 07:03:51 GMT
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Wilsonville,  OR.

>
>1964 doesn't seem real to date the drum-memory machines.  Perhaps the story
>starts in 1964 and flashs back for most of its time-line.  Any company making
>non-core memory machines by then was already dead or dying.
>

In 1983, my high school was donated a Litton [4 digit number forgotten] ABS
system.  The ABS meant "Automated Business System."  It had a 4K drum
internal to a big box with rotary octal coded switches, with lots of loose
7400 stuff on ECB's, a mechanically latched/release optically scanned
keyboard, a whopping 16K outboard memory expansion unit (CPU & memory side
by side are the size of and looked just like a washer/dryer combo!).

The actual "mass storage" of data records for the monster was a magnetic
stripe-on-the-edge tractorfeed tty.

To the point... we got the marketing ads/docs/etc. for the machine, and I
remember the copyrights were (c) 1968 (I think!).  We naturally dissected
the machine [it didn't run when donated] and I saw QA stickers on the drum
assy. for 1971 [the inspector's signature was "Carol".  This memory is
pretty clear.]

The photos show the standard girl attachment for the period [optional
accessory?].  She was wearing a shirt with collars which went to the start
of her sleeves, and a hairdo piled up for miles.  Definetly "bouffant."
Same ads also claim that this machine was faster/had more memory than
competitors "NCR, Burroughs, and Freiden, too".

So, I believe at least one company was still using drum memory in the late 
60's, albiet for low-end small office equipment, like something a car
dealership would use, etc.  In fact, all the software I saw in the docs was
proprietary accounting-type stuff, and you bought the system with the sw.
preloaded on your drum.

Maybe the dead/dying phrase is deadly accurate.  I've never heard of Litton
making a computer before or since.  And who is/was Freiden?

-- 
----
kevind@pogo.wv.tek.com  | For most software publishers, quality is job 1.01.
Tektronix Color Printers|                            -- MacWeek Magazine
From: smith@sctc.com (Rick Smith)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Is SOAP a Myth?? (was: Mel: Fact or Fiction?)
Date: 17 Apr 92 13:14:57 GMT
Article-I.D.: sctc.1992Apr17.131457.17694
Organization: SCTC

lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner) asks:

>Are you sure that SOAP actually worked?  

I never used it personally, though I remember looking at old SOAP
listings at Boston U. They used an IBM 650 running SOAP to determine
that "my kids got 69% fewer cavities using Crest."

In any case, you should be able to go to any general work on '50s
efforts in automatic programming and find references to it. I got
the feeling it was an important part of the 650's market success.

Rick.
smith@sctc.com       arden hills, minnesota
From: jlb10@cl.cam.ac.uk (John Beaven)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Patron saint of computers
Date: 6 Apr 92 16:13:16 GMT
Reply-To: jlb10@cl.cam.ac.uk (John Beaven)
Organization: U of Cambridge Computer Lab, UK

St Stephen.

(How did he die?)

John
From: ollis@redbck.enet.dec.com (Stephen Ollis)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Why is a byte called a byte?
Date: 12 Apr 92 23:36:12 GMT
Reply-To: ollis@redbck.enet.dec.com
Distribution: na
Organization: DIGITAL Equipment Corporation, Rhodes, AUSTRALIA


When I was just a clueless computer wanna-be, my family and I went
out to dinner with some of my dad's friends.. This guy was a 
`programmer' (cue awe-inspiring sound effects (hey I was 13!!)) 
and he was talking a bit about programming.  He was talking about
nybbles something I'd not heard about.. so I asked him .. He recited
`There are 8 bits in a byte, and half a byte's a nybble'.. I laughed 
so hard coz I thought he was joking.. and then I found out he wasn't.
Mind you, I found it's a great mnemonic for teaching ...

+----------------------------------+-----------------------------+
| Steve Ollis, DIGITAL Australia   | "She's the airhead from     | 
| Email: ollis@redbck.enet.dec.com |  hell..."                   |
+----------------------------------+-----------------------------+
From: "scott gregory" <scott.gregory@canrem.com>
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: "the machine that cha
Date: 12 Apr 92 12:53:20 EST
Reply-To: "scott gregory" <scott.gregory@canrem.com>
Distribution: alt
Organization: Canada Remote Systems

<<<Rick Smith> on 04-11-92> said to All>

RS>RE: omissions.

RS>If they get to Anastasoff, they'll probably do it when they cover
RS>The Lawsuit, if they ever do.

I suggest you read the last couple of digests in comp.risks, which has
a reply from the producers of the "Machine that Changed the World" series
regarding Anastasoff's (sp?) machine, and other related issues.

Scott G.
--> scott.gregory@canrem.com <-- | 8805763@SSCVax.McMaster.CA
---
  DeLuxe 1.21 #5411  Hey you kids, get out of that Jello tree!
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario/Detroit, MI
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers