HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: JBK5@psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ingrafx
Subject: Re: The Power Of The Image.
Date: 19 Nov 92 00:56:34 GMT
Organization: Penn State University

In article <INGRAFX%92111501452124@PSUVM.PSU.EDU>,
MAPPAMUNDI@CSOVAX.PORTSMOUTH.AC.UK says:
>
>I have chosen to look at the power of the image, in particular by looking at
>use of images by conservation groups as a means of persuasion.  I hope to
>attempt to interpret such images and in addition look at the persuasion held
>within the accompanying narrative.  Does anybody out there have any
>suggestions
>references or any other useful information which may assist me.

you may want to take a look at a new book:

alexander wilson.  <the culture of nature> (blackwell, 1991)

he deals with current issues in promoting nature and all the associated
myths...and he includes quite a few images.  not exactly related to the
conservation issue is:

alan burnett "propaganda cartography" (in david pepper <the geography of
peace and war> [blackwell, 1985])

but he argues for the use of "propaganda" maps for the promotion of peace
and anti-military purposes.  sort of along the same lines...

jbk


   ' . ' ' '  .'.'.'..''.'.'..''..'.'.'.''..'.'...''...''' '  . '   '  .
 '    . '..'.'jb krygier    penn state encampment of geography . ' '  .
 .  ' ' .'.. 'jbk5@psuvm.psu.edu          blaise@.essc.psu.edu .'. ' '
   '  '   ' '..'..'...'.''...'.'.'.'...'.'.'''.'.''.'.'.' . .  ' .  ' '
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Return-Path: <@CICT-GW.CICT.FR:reynes@cict.fr>
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ingrafx
Date:         Mon, 23 Nov 1992 09:23:15 WET
From:         Jacques Reynes <reynes@CICT.FR>
Subject:      Re: GUI textbook
              "hoffmann@URZDFN.KARTOG

SIGNOFF INGRAFX
--

----------------------------------------------------------
Jacques REYNES                      reynes@cict.fr
Centre Interuniveritaire de Calcul de Toulouse
118 route de Narbonne
31062 TOULOUSE CEDEX
FRANCE
tel : + 33 61 36 60 56
fax : + 33 61 52 14 58
----------------------------------------------------------
From: MAPPAMUNDI@CSOVAX.PORTSMOUTH.AC.UK
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ingrafx
Subject: interllectual interpretation
Date: 18 Nov 92 14:14:00 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Via: uk.ac.portsmouth.csovax; Wed, 18 Nov 1992 14:23:00 +0000

Hello to every one on ingrafx
  I am very interested in your opinions on peoples interllectual
interpretation of graphics. I'm concerned with the idea that
cartographers presume they can create perfect graphics , ones
that are aesthetically pleasing, easy to understand and graphically
correcr, but by being cartographers they are binkered to the fact
that every day people do not always understand what the graphics mean.
  The interllectual ability of the reader defines how much they
understand. Those of a lower interllectual ability will only see what
is on the surface of a piece of graphics, while others will look
below the surface image to find the hidden meanings and biases.
Due to this most cartographic work does not always convey the information
it was supposed to producing dual messages in the work.
  I am interestaed to know if cartographers are aware of this split
readership or if they are deliberataly creating maps that are only
understood by half the population because to create an easily
understood one, would mean it was not perfect and not worth creating
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ingrafx
Date:         Mon, 16 Nov 1992 08:10:09 -0500
From:         hoffmann@URZDFN.KARTOGRAPHIE.TU-DRESDEN.DBP.DE
Subject:      RE: off list

To sign off you have to send the email message to
<listserv@psuvm.bitnet> with the mail body
<unsub ingrafx> only...
The listprocessor will then confirm you by email that you have been removed
from the list.
Only for those on Bitnet you can send an interactive message
<tell listserv at hostname unsub listname> but I prefere the email
"sub or unsub" commands.
---
It's surprisingly, that this kind of listserver procedures are not well
known by users...
---
Therefore, you can also order the listserver memo list by sending
the command in the email body
<get listserv memo> and you will get an email of about 40 Kbytes on
HOW TO USE THE LISTSERV commands at different hosts.

Hope this will be of additional help.
FH-TUD
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To:           listserv@awiimc12
From:         hoffmann@urzdfn.kartographie.TU-DRESDEN.DBP.DE
Message-Id:   <921113132406*hoffmann@urzdfn.kartographie.TU-DRESDEN.DBP.DE>

get listserv memo
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Via:      UK.AC.PORT.CV; 19 NOV 92  9:09:50 GMT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ingrafx
Date:         Thu, 19 Nov 1992 09:12:00 GMT
From:         jeremy <CRAMPTONJ@CSOVAX.PORTSMOUTH.AC.UK>
Subject:      RE: VARIOUS

Fist, there is no need to shout!

>DEAR LIST: AFTER ABOUT A WEEK OF NOT READING MY E-MAIL, I SIGNED
>ON THIS PM TO FIND 79 MESSAGES FROM THIS LIST. FOR EACH ONE I HAVE
>15 LINES OF ROUTING INFORMATION. AS WELL, MY SCREEN MUST HAVE
>FEWER CHARACTERS ALLOWED IN WIDTH THAN OTHERS OF YOU AS I OFTEN
>GET A LINE OF TEXT, THEN A FEW LETTERS ON THE NEXT LINE, THEN
>ANOTHER FULL LINE, ETC. WHEN I ASK FOR A MESSAGE TO DISPLAY, IT
>AUTOMATICALLY PAGES DOWN TO THE END AND I HAVE TO WAIT AND THEN
>PAGE UP TO READ IT. I HAVE PATIENTLY DISPLAYED ALL 79 MESSAGES

I am sorry you only have access to an old email system, but I would
have thought that more a matter for your site admin than this list.

>JEREMY, I DON'T WANT TO BE MEAN TO YOUR STUDENTS BUT MANY OF THEIR
>QUESTIONS ARE DISCUSSED IN THE OBVIOUS CARTOGRAPHIC LITERATURE
>SOURCES - CAN'T THEY DO SOME LIBRARY RESEARCH FIRST?

This however, is a reasonable point, so let me explain what we are
trying to do.  I have told the seminar that email is an excellent
"resource" by which they can supplement their ordinary research.
For most students in the United Kingdom, email isn't even an option,
and as you can see, they do not have individual accounts, just one
class account (which is why there seem to be a lot of similar requests).
That is the best that we can achieve at Portsmouth.

That said, some of the posts look suspiciously like premature ideas
seeking someone else's research/thinking time.  I'm not too worried--
those posts are unlikely to attract a reply, while the more thoughtful
and considered descriptions of research proposals will be more
interesting to the net.  It's kind of electronic darwinism in action.
I do feel it is working; the students are excited, and even yourself felt
able to offer some references:

>RE SOUND AND CART: AN UNPUBLISHED MA THESIS FROM CARLETON UNIVERSITY
>IN 1987 BY STEVE GLAVIN WAS ENTITLED CREATING SOUND SYMBOLS FROM

I hope this clears up any misunderstanding of what we are trying to
achieve here.
__
jeremy..                cramptonj@csovax.portsmouth.ac.uk   [internet]
                  or..  cramptonj@uk.ac.portsmouth.csovax   [janet]
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ingrafx
Date:         Fri, 20 Nov 1992 10:14:52 +0900
From:         Michael Cohen <mcohen@NTTSPCH.NTT.JP>
Subject:      Re: Graphical excellence??? (re: Tufte,1983)

Readers of this list might also want to check out:

Pictorial Maps
Nigel Holmes
1991
Herbert Press
ISBN 1-871569-43-5

for a very accessible survey of eponymous subject.
Holmes makes a compelling argument that maps are more
successful pragmatically (getting people to read
them) if they're interesting visually.

Michael Cohen
Audio Media Group                   voice: [+81](468)59-8503/2360
NTT Human Interface Labs            fax:   [+81](468)59-2898 [g3]
1-2356 Take Yokosuka-shi                   [+81](468)55-1054 [g4]
Kanagawa-ken 238-03          (NeXT) e-mail: mcohen@nttspch.ntt.jp
Japan
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
From: pkokkone@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Pellervo Kokkonen)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ingrafx
Subject: Re:      Re: interllectual interpretation
Date: 19 Nov 1992 14:22:49 GMT
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4

In article <921119080039.23829716@CCSUA.CTSTATEU.EDU> BROWNH@CCSUA.CTSTATEU.EDU writes:
>I'd hate to have only a deconstructionist map when trying to navigate
>a strange city.  

	Could you tell me what is a deconstructionist map? Do you think
	people who are doing post-structuralist interpretations of maps
	as cultural objects, would as cartographers compile different
	kind of maps?

>... resorting to subjectivism ...
>better than the now much condemned retreat to objectivism.  

	Who is resorting to subjectivism? Could you suggest some
	examples that I could study. Do you mean maps or research
	publications?

>deconstructionists have a point, but taken in an extreem sense leads to

	I do not think "deconstructionists" have promoted a new cartography.
	Neither have they excluded "internalist" studies in cartography.
	In my opinion they have offered a more comprehensive, complementary
	perspective.

	Pellervo Kokkonen


Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ingrafx
Date:         Mon, 16 Nov 1992 13:36:10 LCL
From:         "Stephen C. Nodvin: NPS-CPSU/UNIV. TENNESSEE"
              <PA120028@UTKVM1.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: GPS and Neighborhood Mapping
              15 Nov 1992 10:47:44 EST from <71161.3563@COMPUSERVE.COM>

You could get a good response to your question by getting on the GIS
mailing list
To get on the list, send a mail message with the following line:
subscribe gis-l
to:
listserv@UBVM.BITNET.  You should be able to subscribe through the CompuServe
Internet gateway.
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------*
| Stephen C. Nodvin; National Park Service-Cooperative Park Studies Unit   |
| Dept. Forestry/ Univ. Tennessee        Internet: NODVIN@UTKVX.UTK.edu    |
| Knoxville, Tennessee 37901-1071 USA    BITNET:   NODVIN@UTKVX.bitnet     |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Full-Name: Joel Chasse
Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.25]
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ingrafx
Date:         Sun, 15 Nov 1992 21:20:13 EST
From:         Joel Chasse <Joel_Chasse@UQAR.UQUEBEC.CA>
Subject:      I need help to signoff.

Apologies to the list....
This LISTSERV didn't let me signoff. It wants me to stay.

TO THE LIST OWNER: please remove me from the list.
My address should be: RIR0240@UQAR.UQUEBEC.CA
                  or: mochajoe@UQAR.UQUEBEC.CA
                  or: Joel Chasse@UQAR.UQUEBEC.CA
                  or: Joel_Chasse@UQAR.UQUEBEC.CA
    Thanks.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.3 5/22/91)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ingrafx
Date:         Thu, 19 Nov 1992 08:40:53 -0500
From:         "Keith C. Clarke" <kclarke@RESDGW6.ER.USGS.GOV>
Subject:      Re: Graphical excellence??? (re: Tufte,1983)
              Tufte,1983)" (Nov 19, 12:24pm)

I am rather concerned that the discussion around Graphical
Excellence is a little too focussed on popular and thematic
cartography. The actual transfer from a virtual to a real map,
what could be called the symbolization transformation, is only one
of a huge number of places where subjectivity creeps into the
cartographic process. What about dealing with data collection
positional error? What about "hiding" the data structure by
smoothing contours, for example? Maps are not just a set of
symbols for Deconstructionists to pull apart, they are made,
used, consumed, stored, and destroyed continuously. Why not
take a look at how symbolization on Topo quads changed over the
100 year period it took to complete the mapping? How much of the
lack of excellence is due to "pre-post-modern" thinking, and how
much is due to technology, schedules, perhaps even personalities?
Keep in mind that for every Time magazine map, thousands of
aero-charts, hiking trail maps, weather maps, topo sheets,
softcopy maps etc. are made.
Another issue, being discussed right now on GIS-L, is how the
pricing of digital cartographic data affects use. If ever there
was an agenda behind the virtual maps that digital cartographic data
represent, its right under your noses in the U.K.
kclarke@everest.hunter.cuny.edu
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Mailer: WinNET Mail, v1.0
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ingrafx
Date:         Sun, 15 Nov 1992 10:28:13 -0500
Reply-To:     Jeff Green <jgreen@modemnews.win.net>
From:         Jeff Green <jgreen@MODEMNEWS.WIN.NET>
Subject:      Re: Money projections

>aphic designs on money, such as bank notes.     If you have any relevant
> information or views on such a subject matter i would love to hear from you.

To be sure the American Dollar is one of the blandest looking
currencies there are. To see a better example of currency just
look at the Canadian dollar (Centennial series). There are also
other factors here. The US $ is also one of the few currencies
that do not have different sizes for the different denominations.

With the passage of the disabilities act, the government may finally
be forced to change the way the greenback has looked and felt,
perhaps having a one dollar bill smaller than a five, than a ten,
whatever. People have tried for a long time to change the dollar
but to no success.

Jeff

_________________________________________________________________________
Jeff Green                              Internet:jgreen@ModemNews.win.net
ModemNews Magazine
203.359.2299 BBS                        116 Dean Street Suite B
203.969.1183 Voice                      Stamford, CT 06902-6251
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ingrafx
Date:         Fri, 20 Nov 1992 06:48:30 -0800
From:         Tony Navarra <navarra@WELL.SF.CA.US>
Subject:      signoff

UNSUBSCRIBE Tony
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ingrafx
Date:         Tue, 17 Nov 1992 02:37:54 -0500
From:         hoffmann@URZDFN.KARTOGRAPHIE.TU-DRESDEN.DBP.DE
Subject:      GUI textbook

F.Y.I. only:
------------

   Grafische Bediener-Oberflaechen  - Ein Leitfaden fuer das
   Anwendungsdesign.
   By JENZ et.al (in German). To be printed!
   Price: 98.- DM (until November 20th: 85.- DM)
   Shipping costs additionally!

For pre-orderings:

   Unternehmensberatung Jenz & Partner GmbH
   Beethovenstr. 30
   W-6455 ERLENSEE
   Germany

   Tel.: +49-6183-9100.0        Fax.: +49-6183-9100.14
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Content:

- User interaction models
- Interface between shell and application
- Windows, menus, interaction elements and their functioning
- Rules for application design
- Rules for ergonomic use of menus and interaction elements
- Relations between dialogue interface, application logic and db interface


FH-TUD
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Original_To:  BITNET%"INGRAFX@PSUVM.BITNET"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ingrafx
Date:         Fri, 20 Nov 1992 12:37:00 EDT
From:         Great Map Dude <EDNEY@BINGVAXA.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: OBJECTIVE PROJECTIONS?

Alan mentions Athelstan Spilhouse's [sp?] projection.  For the record,
Spilhouse has used that projection
as the basis of an atlas of the oceans published by the American Philosophical
Society, Philadelphia (1991/92?).

I also agree with Alan about the worth of 'mis'representation.  (i read somethin
g
else this morning which also used `misrepresentation', and set me thinking.)
if you agree with Roland Barthes that all language formations are actually
DEformations, then you accept that any REpresentation involves a certain
amount of alteration (call it what you will) of the subject matter.  by refering
to misrepresentations, you promote the assumption that a representation is
correct (whatever that word means) and that prefect replication is possible.

Matthew Edney
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ingrafx
Date:         Fri, 20 Nov 1992 08:24:57 -0500
From:         NYB@PSUVM.BITNET
Subject:      Re: OBJECTIVE PROJECTIONS?

You might want to consider the projection developed by Athelstan Spilhaus,
(Smithsonian Mag. Nov. 1979) pp. 116-122). The goal was to develop a
projection that emphasized the interconnectedness of the worlds oceans --
a 'propaganda' purpose that many of us interested in taking care of
the environment would support. I think you will find the idea of
'misrepresentation' problematic because it can not be defined except
from a particular value-laden point of view.
  Alan MacEachren
  Geography
  Penn State
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ingrafx
Date:         Fri, 20 Nov 1992 16:52:58 PST
From:         Scott Morehouse <esri!astro!scott@UUNET.UU.NET>
Subject:      Re: OBJECTIVE PROJECTIONS?

Here are some thoughts on Tony Moore's "objective cartography" ideas:

> - is there any such thing as a completely objective map or are all maps
> subject to linkages with ideologies to differing degrees?

All maps are models of reality.  All models are based on some simplifying
assumptions or conceptual framework.  Anything but reality (or the famous
1:1 scale map) will have an implicit "point of view".

I think the best we could do would be to make these assumptions
explicit for the map reader (e.g "the zero meridian passes through
London on this map because Britian won the great battle over the location
of 0 in the late 19th century, beating out Paris, Warsaw, ..." and "the
soil categories on this map were designed in 1935 for agricultural
planning in the lowland regions of the country by an agronomist trained
in Canada so the delineation of wetland or upland soils is probably all
wrong and ...".  This "truth in labelling" approach is the one being
taken for characterizing the quality of GIS datasets (see, for example,
the US SDTS standard).


> - from looking at how ideologies can be upheld in various projections we
> can judge what projections are closest to objectivity (like R. Buckminster
> Fuller's projection in Axelsen and Jones' 1987 article?), but can we then
> create a new projection using conventional cartographic method that strives
 for
>  objectivity as much as possible, avoiding the traits that characterize a
> typical projection with a political agenda to the largest possible degree?

I always thought that "objectivity" was an ideology in it's own right.
(It sure was for Bucky Fuller!)  You are just talking about making
propaganda maps for the "objectivitists"!


  -Scott Morehouse
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Date:         Mon, 16 Nov 1992 07:40:53 -0500
From:         TRIMET1@AIP.BITNET
Subject:      off list

listserv at psuvm signoff ingrafx
From: 71161.3563@COMPUSERVE.COM (James R Harvey)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ingrafx
Subject: GPS and Neighborhood Mapping
Date: 15 Nov 92 15:47:44 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

I am seeking to contact those involved in integrating the GPS (Global
Positioning System) satellite receivers into PC based computers for the
purpose of creating "neighborhood maps." To explain, there was an article
in Business Week, Nov 16, 1992, about a company GeoSpan Corp. in
Minneapolis that is using a fleet of vans loaded with video cameras to
drive through neighborhoods and take video images of the housing. The
images are then compressed and stored on CD. The van carries a GPS and the
resultant data is linked to it.

These data are useful for, say, real estate agents to give prospective
clients a quick tour through a neighborhood.

Can anyone be of help to me to see how extensive this kind of thing might
be or how difficult it might be to implement for other purposes?

Regards,
Jim Harvey (no company affiliation)
3114 Robinwood Dr.
Salt Lake City, UT  84118
(801) 968-2343
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ingrafx
Date:         Fri, 20 Nov 1992 10:22:47 -0400
From:         Gary Davis <davis@UNBSJ.CA>
Subject:      Re: interllectual interpretation

I am a newcomer to this subject, and I would appreciate it if someone
would define some terms for me:

        Is "interllectual" (above) a pun?  If so/not could someone explain
                it to me?
        What is a "deconstructionist map"?
        What is the "subject/object ontological dichotomy"?
        What is meant here by "subjectivism" and "objectivism"?
        What is "parocchial presentism"?

This message is not meant to be rude or critical.  I would just like to
know what I am reading.  Thanks. --Gary


On Thu, 19 Nov 1992, BROWNH@CCSUA.CTSTATEU.EDU wrote:

> I'd hate to have only a deconstructionist map when trying to navigate
> a strange city.

> I suspect the subject/object ontological dichotomy is
> a peculiar artifact of the Western cultural tradition, and trying to
> escape that conceptual contradiction by resorting to subjectivism is no
> better than the now much condemned retreat to objectivism.

> There are well defined and broadly
> understood alternatives once we escape the prison of a very parochial
> presentism.
>
> Haines Brown  (brownh@ccsua.ctstateu.edu)
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Return-Path: <sdl@linus.mitre.org>
Full-Name: Steven D. Litvintchouk
Posted-Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 17:17:52 -0500
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ingrafx
Date:         Thu, 19 Nov 1992 17:17:52 -0500
From:         sdl@LINUS.MITRE.ORG
Subject:      someone please remove me from the INGRAFX mailing list!

I apologize in advance for bothering all of you subscribers....

I have been unable to get off the INGRAFX mailing list, even though I
have tried email to INGRAFX-REQUEST, LISTSERV, etc., from several
different addresses.  I have given up trying.

Please, please remove me from this INGRAFX mailing list!  Thanx in
advance!



Steven Litvintchouk
MITRE Corporation
202 Burlington Road
Bedford, MA  01730

Fone:  (617)271-7753
ARPA:  sdl@mitre.org
UUCP:  linus!sdl
        "Where does he get those wonderful toys?"
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU