HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: robinc@bnr.ca (Robin Collins)
Subject: Re: WORLD GOVERNMENT
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 17:03:19 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.052117.14913@ncar.ucar.edu> gary@isis.cgd.ucar.edu (Gary Strand) writes:
>sm> Stephen McIntyre
>
>sm> Citizens become more susceptable to propaganda precisely because they lack
>sm> a good education.
>
>  Actually, intellectuals are no less susceptible to propaganda than the "un-
>  washed masses". Hitler enjoyed considerable support among the German intel-
>  lectual elite, and when one reads what American intellectuals wrote about
>  Stalin during the 1930s, it's pretty obvious that merely being "educated"
>  is no safeguard against totalitarians and their lies.
>


Well Gary, it looks like you thought the same thought as I did (although
earlier).
I am very interested in what happened in Germany and in particular,
what happened to  educated intellectuals who were duped by
nazi propaganda.

I have a feeling it had a lot to do with POWER, with feelings of
alienation in addition to the propaganda (and more so than propaganda.)
Look at some of the intellectuals who fell for fascism: GB Shaw to some
extent, Ezra Pound, James Joyce and many others.

This worship of power, including today's talk of "empowerment",  
may be the problem in terms of suspension of critical thinking. 
Fundamentalism is a good example, perhaps,
and is not all that dissimilar to totalitarianism. Some extremely intelligent
people have been fundamentalists, or dogmatists. Such is fuel for fascism. 
I think some of the libertarians are right in this area of thought (and 
which is why people like Chomsky call themselves libertarian socialists, I
suspect.)

Any thoughts?


Frank.
Xref: sparky misc.headlines:5608 alt.activism:14804 talk.politics.misc:39619
From: mwilson@ncratl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM (Mark Wilson)
Newsgroups: misc.headlines,alt.activism,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: WORLD GOVERNMENT
Date: 14 Aug 92 13:28:25 GMT
Organization: NCR Engineering and Manufacturing Atlanta -- Atlanta, GA

>A world government could have 
>constitutional restrictions on its power so it can only deal with global 
>issues.

>ALEX

You hope this will be the case.  I see no reason to be so optimistic.
Given the types of governments that the vast majority of people on this
planet live under.  Also consider that if you don't like the government
there will be no place else to go.  That is still an option today.

-- 
--Mark

Newsgroups: misc.headlines,alt.activism,talk.politics.misc
From: aws@iti.org (Allen W. Sherzer)
Subject: Re: Iraq renews threats against Kuwait
Organization: Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 19:19:00 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.171037.2896@bmerh85.bnr.ca> robinc@bnr.ca (Robin Collins) writes:

>But if the UN is to be a "civilized body", then perhaps it should first
>be democratic, in terms of national representation (if not population
>representation).

Given that the majority of UN member states are dictatorships or one
party states where dissent generally isn't allowed I find this talk of
'democracy' at the UN somewhat laughable.

    Allen
-- 
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Allen W. Sherzer | "If they can put a man on the Moon, why can't they     |
|  aws@iti.org     |  put a man on the Moon?"                               |
+----------------------253 DAYS TO FIRST FLIGHT OF DCX----------------------+
Newsgroups: misc.headlines,alt.activism,talk.politics.misc
From: gary@isis.cgd.ucar.edu (Gary Strand)
Subject: Re: WORLD GOVERNMENT
Organization: Climate and Global Dynamics Division/NCAR, Boulder, CO
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 04:52:46 GMT

sm> Stephen McIntyre

sm> [E]ducation is the best way to help society protect itself from the
sm> blatherings and blubberings of political and/or religious propaganda.  It
sm> would be a good tool in creating a more unified, and informed, world.

  Under a WG, who will run the education system? The WG? If so, you should 
  examine what's been happening with education in the US. If anything, too
  many citizens are becoming *more* susceptible to government propaganda.
  Read Chmosky or Chomsky-lite (ie, Harel) to see what I mean. 


--
Gary Strand                      Opinions stated herein are mine alone and are
strandwg@ncar.ucar.edu            not representative of NCAR, UCAR, or the NSF
Xref: sparky misc.headlines:5529 alt.activism:14668 talk.politics.misc:39066
Newsgroups: misc.headlines,alt.activism,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: WORLD GOVERNMENT
From: adams@spss.com (Steve Adams)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 14:41:09 GMT
Organization: SPSS Inc.

trajan@cwis.unomaha.edu (Stephen McIntyre) writes:

>goykhman_a@apollo.hp.com  writes:

>> In article <1992Aug11.145521.29060@mcshub.dcss.mcmaster.ca> bunker@physun.physics.mcmaster.ca (Alex Bunker) writes:
>> ...
>> >World govenrment is closer at hand now than in the 60's and yes I will
>> >not hide it Frank can speak for himself but I will stand proud and say
>> >I AM IN FAVOR OF WORLD GOVERNMENT AND I REFUSE TO FEEL ANY ALLEGENCE TO
>> >ANY SUBUNIT OF THE WHOLE COMMONLY KNOWN AS A COUNTRY!!!!
>> 
>>     Do you realize that if the New World Order takes hold,
>>     there will be no place to hide?

>Why would you have to hide?  Are you breaking any laws or something
>     that would make you want to hide?

Maybe because you disagree with government policies on taxes, civil
liberties, etc....right now, if I dislike the laws enough, I have to option
of going somewhere else...

 -Steve
--
 The opinions expressed above are those of the author and not SPSS, Inc.
                        -------------------
     adams@spss.com                           Phone: (312) 329-3522
     Steve Adams                              Fax:   (312) 329-3558
Xref: sparky misc.headlines:5620 alt.activism:14829 talk.politics.misc:39728
From: gary@ke4zv.uucp (Gary Coffman)
Newsgroups: misc.headlines,alt.activism,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: WORLD GOVERNMENT
Date: 14 Aug 92 14:15:35 GMT
Article-I.D.: ke4zv.1992Aug14.141535.9416
Reply-To: gary@ke4zv.UUCP (Gary Coffman)
Organization: Gannett Technologies Group

In article <1992Aug12.001838.14325@news.unomaha.edu> trajan@cwis.unomaha.edu (Stephen McIntyre) writes:
>goykhman_a@apollo.hp.com  writes:
>
>>     Do you realize that if the New World Order takes hold,
>>     there will be no place to hide?
>
>Why would you have to hide?  Are you breaking any laws or something
>     that would make you want to hide?

That's a singularly stupid statement. If you were living in a country
that decided to exterminate jews, would you happily obey the law?
Suppose you were a jew. Stupid, dangerous, and vicious laws have been 
passed throughout history by dictatorships *and* by democracies. Mob rule 
is one of the most dangerous kinds of rule, look at the French revolution,
or early Soviet Union for examples of what happens when the will of the 
majority is unchecked. Or look at the US where the majority (white)
considered it proper to enslave a minority (black) and passed *laws*
enforcing that condition. Would you obey the law and return a runaway
slave to his rightful owner? Would you do it knowing he would be whipped
to within an inch of his life, or perhaps actually killed? A place to
hide is sometimes vital when the howling mob decides to impose their
*majority* will on some hapless minority.

Our founding fathers partially saw this danger called democracy. That's
why the US is not a democracy. It's a constitutional republic with some
democratic elements. The system of checks and balances on majority whim
is an attempt to mitigate the horrors of the mob. It's fallible because
it's operated by fallible men, but it's better than any purely democratic
alternative in protecting the rights of individuals.

Gary
Newsgroups: misc.headlines,alt.activism,talk.politics.misc
From: stevem@solbourne.com (Stephen Matson)
Subject: Re: WORLD GOVERNMENT
Organization: Solbourne Computer, Inc., Longmont, CO
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 17:30:59 GMT

trajan@cwis.unomaha.edu (Stephen McIntyre) writes:
>goykhman_a@apollo.hp.com  writes:
>> 
>>     Do you realize that if the New World Order takes hold,
>>     there will be no place to hide?
>
>Why would you have to hide?  Are you breaking any laws or something
>     that would make you want to hide?
>

  I hope your just trying to be funny, right?

 Jews in 1940 Germany were breaking laws by not turning themselves in for
 the ovens. Instead they went into hiding or ran.

  Get the point?

---
  "Freedom is irrelevant, self determination is irrelevant. You must comply!"

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<*LIVE FREE OR DIE*>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Steve Matson (The original Rocky Mountain nationalist)         **COLORADO**

Newsgroups: misc.headlines,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.bush
From: art@world.std.com (Al Thompson)
Subject: Re: Candidates and their women
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
	<1992Aug14.114954.16393@dg-rtp.dg.com>
	<1992Aug15.014816.26727@pony.Ingres.COM>
	<1992Aug15.094733.597@ccsvax.sfasu.edu>
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 15:08:56 GMT

In article <1992Aug15.094733.597@ccsvax.sfasu.edu> f_gautjw@ccsvax.sfasu.edu writes:

   In article <1992Aug15.014816.26727@pony.Ingres.COM>, garrett@Ingres.COM (QUOTE OF THE YEAR) writes:
[...]

	   But I think this misses the main point.  Why has the press had
   free reign to bludgeon Gary Hart, Clinton and others with stories of
   their picadillos but seems to just now be coming out of its strait
   jacket with respect to GHWB?

Because these is objective proof that Hart and Clinton were fooling
around.  There is no such evidence in Bush's case.  The putative
statements of a dead man don't count for much.

Newsgroups: misc.headlines,alt.activism,talk.politics.misc
From: f_gautjw@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Newsgroups: misc.headlines,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.bush
Subject: Re: Candidates and their women
Date: 15 Aug 92 09:47:33 CST
Distribution: na
Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University

In article <1992Aug15.014816.26727@pony.Ingres.COM>, garrett@Ingres.COM (QUOTE OF THE YEAR) writes:
> In article <1992Aug14.114954.16393@dg-rtp.dg.com>, grossg@patriot.rtp.dg.com (Gross writes...
>>In article <STEINMAN.92Aug4084513@hawk.is.morgan.com> steinman@is.morgan.com (Jan Steinman) writes:
>>>I just heard a report this morning that Bush soundly rebuked his
>>>campaign manager for writing a press release that made references to
>>>Clinton's "bimbos". Also, my spouse just returned from UK, where she
>>>said the press is full of stories about Bush's womanizing in the past.
>>>
>>Actually, there is no accounting for the British tabloid press.  Those
>>people thrive on innuendo and rumor.
>> 
> I was wondering, just what does this have to do with whether a canidate
> would make a good president or not? This isn't sarcastic, or a jab. Just
> an honest question. Personally, I would rather a president get his "rocks
> off" over a woman than over the power of his position (no pun intended).
> 
> Garrett@Ingres.com

	I think a lot of people would agree with you in that most are
interested in the quality of leadership provided and not the side-show
activities of personal life.

	But I think this misses the main point.  Why has the press had
free reign to bludgeon Gary Hart, Clinton and others with stories of
their picadillos but seems to just now be coming out of its strait
jacket with respect to GHWB?
Xref: sparky misc.headlines:5556 soc.misc:953
From: mwilson@ncratl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM (Mark Wilson)
Newsgroups: misc.headlines,soc.misc
Subject: Re: Professional athletes in Olympics?
Date: 12 Aug 92 16:41:06 GMT
Organization: NCR Engineering and Manufacturing Atlanta -- Atlanta, GA

In <10AUG199222593503@amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov> packer@amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov
(Charles Packer) writes:

>I've never paid much attention to the Olympics, but
>have always known they are for =amateurs=, no
>professional athletes need apply. Now comes a front
>page story in the NY Times about the "Dream Team"
>of professional basketball players. There was no
>background explanatory material in the story.
>Could somebody bring me up to date on this situation?

Professional athletes have been attending the Olympics for quite some time.
(30 - 40 years?)  You may not have been aware of it because some nations
had become very adept at disquising their professionals as amateurs.

The rules makers have recently decided to let the games catch up with
reality and stop the hypocrisy behind all these suppossedly "amateur"
athletes.  Now the best athletes in the world are allowed to compete,
regardless of how they may make their living.

BTW, the rules for who may compete are different for each sport.  Don't
ask me to explain how or why this is, I don't completely understand it
myself.  Something about there being a different federation for each
sport, and each federation gets to set at least some of its own rules.

-- 
--Mark

Newsgroups: misc.headlines,alt.activism,talk.politics.misc
From: gary@isis.cgd.ucar.edu (Gary Strand)
Subject: Intellectuals and totalitarians II (was Re: WORLD GOVERNMENT)
Organization: Climate and Global Dynamics Division/NCAR, Boulder, CO
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 03:41:03 GMT

sm> Stephen McIntyre

sm> Perhaps the biggest reason for the attraction of Germans (including the
sm> "intellectual elite") to Hitler was because of the misery caused by the
sm> depression of that era.  People's spirits, as well as their homes, were
sm> broken-- they were a tired nation.  Any hope offered to them was considered
sm> good, even if the man offering the hope was a tyrant.

  Other countries have suffered problems similar to Germany's, and didn't
  turn to tyrants. The US, for one. FDR was highly authoritarian by the stan-
  dards set by previous Presidents, but he was no Hitler.

  It's not just the current set of problems faced by a country that allows
  a Hitler to arise, it's also the set of cultural beliefs that a nation's
  people share. Germans of that era felt that they needed a strong leader
  to tell them what to do, a sentiment shared by many Americans today. That's
  what energized Perot's campaign to a large extent. Those "Ross for Boss"
  bumper sticker's weren't just a catchy slogan.

  Anyway, going back to the world government discussion a bit, what needs to
  be changed for a WG to work is a change from this kind of cultural attitude.
  And, as we've seen, having an educated citizenry isn't a guard against it.
  What else needs to be done to create a planet full of people who don't 
  have these kinds of ideas? Making them smart isn't enough.


--
Gary Strand                      Opinions stated herein are mine alone and are
strandwg@ncar.ucar.edu            not representative of NCAR, UCAR, or the NSF
Newsgroups: misc.headlines,alt.activism,talk.politics.misc
From: cedman@714-725-3165.nts.uci.edu (Carl Edman)
Newsgroups: misc.headlines,alt.activism,talk.politics.misc
Subject: (none)
Date: 20 Aug 92 15:12:15 GMT

Subject: Re: European Social democracy vs. American Capitalism
Reply-To: cedman@golem.ps.uci.edu (Carl Edman)

Alex Bunker writes
> Gary Strand writes:
> >  In any case, all the countries which have your style of socialism have
> >  other parties of lesser or greater socialistic orientation, those parties 
> >  with a decidedly less leftist bent being ascendant for several years now,
> >  at least. 
> 
> NOT!
> The last european parliamentary elections say the Eurosocialists take
> power away from the Christian Demos. CDU in germany is in BIG trouble
> and the SDP is gaining popularity etc..

NOT ! NOT !

The Eurosocialists did _not_ take away power from the Christian Democrats. The  
Eurosocialists have had control of the EP since it was founded. This just  
didn't change the last time around. 

As for the CDU, every single mid-term it has been low in the polls and yet it  
did win every single national election in Germany for more than a decade. And  
the opposition party which is by the way the SPD (you would not happen to be a  
synonym for Thurgood Marshall here posting on the net ?). This party is so  
_terminally_ embarrased about it close friendship with the butchers of the  
StaSi-state that I'm surprised that it is still around e.g. just a few years  
before the wall fell they actually managed to get the west german center for  
the tracking of human rights violations in east germany closed because it  
offended their friends who are now on trial for mass murder (that was _their_  
argument).

> See above Kinnock made one of the biggest seat gains for a
> political party i a single election in British history.
> The cons. just had too strong an encumbancy factor. They
> wont have that next time and they will lose. What you say
> about Norway is about 2 years out of date. Mitterand is
> just the victim of a cranky electrorate the right is no
> more popular. 

So that it why he was booted out of his party post ? Because he was such a  
great victor ? I'm afraid your understanding of politics is a little bit  
confused.

As for Mitterand he is one of the last ruling self-confessed communists in  
Europe. But if East Berlin and Moscow can fall, so can Paris.

	Carl Edman
Xref: sparky misc.headlines:5698 alt.conspiracy:10101
From: art@world.std.com (Al Thompson)
Newsgroups: misc.headlines,alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: Candidates and their women
Date: 18 Aug 92 17:26:31 GMT
	<1992Aug14.114954.16393@dg-rtp.dg.com>
	<1992Aug15.014816.26727@pony.Ingres.COM>
	<1992Aug15.094733.597@ccsvax.sfasu.edu>
	<ART.92Aug17100856@world.std.com>
	<13384.2a906e3f@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu>
Distribution: na
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA

In article <13384.2a906e3f@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu> vancleef@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu writes:

   In article <ART.92Aug17100856@world.std.com>, art@world.std.com (Al Thompson) writes:
   > In article <1992Aug15.094733.597@ccsvax.sfasu.edu> f_gautjw@ccsvax.sfasu.edu writes:
   > 
   >    In article <1992Aug15.014816.26727@pony.Ingres.COM>, garrett@Ingres.COM (QUOTE OF THE YEAR) writes:
   > [...]
   > 
   > 	   But I think this misses the main point.  Why has the press had
   >    free reign to bludgeon Gary Hart, Clinton and others with stories of
   >    their picadillos but seems to just now be coming out of its strait
   >    jacket with respect to GHWB?
   > 
   > Because these is objective proof that Hart and Clinton were fooling
   > around.  There is no such evidence in Bush's case.  The putative
   > statements of a dead man don't count for much.
   > 

   Isn't it interesing how some people associated with controversy about
   Reagan or Bush are conveniently dead?

Silly me, I should have spotted this CIA plot along time ago.  Just like
the way they gave brain cancer to William Casey.  You know, Wild Bill
Donovan, wartime leader of the OSS (the CIA's predcessor) also died of
brain cancer.  If that doesn't prove a conspiracy I can't imagine what
would.
Newsgroups: misc.headlines,alt.activism,talk.politics.misc
From: gary@isis.cgd.ucar.edu (Gary Strand)
Subject: Intellectuals and totalitarianism (was Re: WORLD GOVERNMENT)
Organization: Climate and Global Dynamics Division/NCAR, Boulder, CO
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 03:31:02 GMT

f > "Frank" (Robin Collins)

f > Some extremely intelligent people have been fundamentalists, or dogmatists.
f > Such is fuel for fascism.  I think some of the libertarians are right in
f > this area of thought (and which is why people like Chomsky call themselves
f > libertarian socialists, I suspect.) Any thoughts?

  On what? That we agree that being an intellectual is no safeguard against
  falling for totalitarian's propaganda? Or that being an intellectual is
  no guarantee against being wrong, or just ignorant and stupid? Makes one
  wonder why so many intellectuals are of leftist persuasion, doesn't it?

  Sometimes I think your average blue-collar Joe Steelworker has more sense
  and wisdom than all the lefty intellectuals infesting academia and the
  "elite".


--
Gary Strand                      Opinions stated herein are mine alone and are
strandwg@ncar.ucar.edu            not representative of NCAR, UCAR, or the NSF
Newsgroups: misc.headlines,alt.activism,talk.politics.misc
Newsgroups: misc.headlines,soc.culture.yugoslavia
Subject: Re: More Sarajevo notes
From: adams@spss.com (Steve Adams)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 16:39:41 GMT
Organization: SPSS Inc.

packer@amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov (Charles Packer) writes:

>Still not much has been published in the way of pictures
>of the alleged destruction of Sarajevo. There are two possible
>reasons for this:

>1. There is no destruction, after all; to some degree or other,
>   it's a hoax.

>2. There is destruction, but the media are waiting to release
>   pictures to coincide with some event in the offing.

3. It is %&$*(&%$*( dangerous to move around in Yugoslavia...ask Sam
Donaldson's (ex-)Producer...and they were travelling in a Govt. convoy...

 -Steve
--
 The opinions expressed above are those of the author and not SPSS, Inc.
                        -------------------
     adams@spss.com                           Phone: (312) 329-3522
     Steve Adams                              Fax:   (312) 329-3558
Newsgroups: misc.headlines,alt.activism,talk.politics.misc
From: aws@iti.org (Allen W. Sherzer)
Subject: Re: Iraq renews threats against Kuwait
Organization: Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 15:27:14 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.133703.18030@bmerh85.bnr.ca> robinc@bnr.ca (Robin Collins) writes:

>>Given that the majority of UN member states are dictatorships or one
>>party states where dissent generally isn't allowed I find this talk of
>>'democracy' at the UN somewhat laughable.

>Alas, then I guess the US should be allowed to run the show because it
>has put most of those dictatorship into power in the first place anyway, eh?
>Interesting concept of democracy you have there....

Note the classic liberal defense: when painted into a corner, change the
subject and blame the US.

I think you would have a hard time proving that the US put 51% of the
world dictators into power but let's stick to the point. What's the
point behind democracy in a body where most members have nothing but
contempt for it?

   Allen
-- 
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Allen W. Sherzer | "If they can put a man on the Moon, why can't they     |
|  aws@iti.org     |  put a man on the Moon?"                               |
+----------------------252 DAYS TO FIRST FLIGHT OF DCX----------------------+
Xref: sparky misc.headlines:5869 soc.misc:966
From: packer@amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov (Charles Packer)
Newsgroups: misc.headlines,soc.misc
Subject: Photo -- clearing Bosnian mines
Date: 23 Aug 92 11:42:00 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Independence
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1

Apparently mines are being laid on the surface nowadays. A photo
in the NY Times Friday, credited to "Brogi/Contrasto/Saba"
is captioned 

  "United Nations forces clearing mines last week in the town
   of Banja Luka, Bosnia."

It shows seven mines resting on a street, arrayed in a circle about
15 feet in diameter. A soldier has picked up one mine. Another
soldier is bending down to pick up another. The mines have 
convenient handles for carrying.

This is in accord with a story I saw last week about a the driver
in a relief supply vehicle who, at a checkpoint, asked the
soldiers to "clear the mines" so he could proceed, and
they obliged.

As far as I can tell, mines are not placed with signs next to
them that say, for example, "This is a mine."
Newsgroups: misc.headlines,alt.activism,talk.politics.misc