HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cbbrowne@csi.uottawa.ca (Christopher Browne)
Subject: Re: Apples and Oranges
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, University of Ottawa
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 23:30:09 GMT

In article <Bs7L82.Eu0@ireq.hydro.qc.ca> beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca (Denis Beauregard) writes:
>In article <1992Jul29.161936.17199@morgan.ucs.mun.ca> power@random.ucs.mun.ca writes:
>>
>>Looked at from this perspective, this country is in trouble - we are not
>>even discussing the same issues! 
>
>If you look at my postings a few month old, I said something like that :
>there is no solution except secession of Quebec.  Maybe another solution
>is to accompany this with a shared common commercial space, but with
>Quebec having full power or deciding what power to give away (instead
>of current Ottawa choice).  This is Souverainete-Association : Quebec
>keeps her way of doing things and Canada do the same.

2 comments:

(1) For Quebec to have "full power" elicits in most of us the concern
that this would mean that Quebec would have power within the country
that nobody else has, and power is something that is easy to abuse.
And with the way the Quebec government has been treating anglophones
in Quebec lately, there's not much reassurance.

(2) "Quebec keeps her way of doing things" - that sounds as if you
don't want there to be ANY changes.  Do you want sovereignty, or do
you not?  The way things are done now, Quebec doesn't have
sovereignty.  It doesn't make any sense to have sovereignty and not
use it.  Either "keeps her way" means that there's no need for
sovereignty, or it's a contradiction of what you really mean.

>First name of PQ was actually Mouvement Souverainete-Association and this
>form of government is probably enough to accomodate both Quebec (Quebec
>gets full powers and is no more considered as a child facing parents ;
>this would be also feeling of maturity, etc.) and CSQ (no special power for
>Quebec in the same political space of Canada while keeping the existing
>commercial/economics space).

But politics and economics are STRONGLY linked.  Both do have to go
together.
-- 
Christopher Browne
cbbrowne@csi.uottawa.ca
University of Ottawa
Master of System Science Program
Xref: sparky can.general:3399 can.politics:5341
Newsgroups: can.general,can.politics
From: ematias@dgp.toronto.edu (Edgar Matias)
Subject: Re: RACISM???/Access to English schools
Organization: CSRI, University of Toronto
Distribution: can
Date: 23 Jul 92 23:38:54 GMT


>  As the original target for the "man from Del Monte" reference
> ....
>  My suspicion is that this relates to something in Popular American
>  culture that I have missed.

I'm not sure if it is American or Canadian but I believe it is in reference
to a commercial that used to run some years ago where the "man from Del
Monte" would visit a farm (he owned) and would inspect the produce.
The fruit had to pass the "man from Del Monte" seal of approval before
it was let loose on the world.

I believe it was meant as a good-natured insult (if there is such a thing).
Of course, in reality there is no "man from Del Monte".  In Quebec the
fruits go unchecked...

Edgar "Who do you think you are?  The man from Del Monte?" Matias
Xref: sparky can.general:3415 can.politics:5370
From: peterd@cc.mcgill.ca (Peter Deutsch)
Newsgroups: can.general,can.politics
Subject: Re: FLQ (was Re: French/English status after independence)
Date: 29 Jul 92 16:25:26 GMT
Organization: Bunyip Information Systems (the archie people)

In article <Bs5KyK.3qo@ireq.hydro.qc.ca> beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca (Denis Beauregard) writes:
>In article <28JUL92.10924094.0067@VM1.MCGILL.CA> CZ94@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA (CZ94) writes:
>>In article <12398@audetf> audetf@Software.Mitel.COM (Francois Audet) writes:
>>>
>>>Why the hell is two isolated murders always given as example of
>>>so-called Quebec nationalism, or violence in Quebec.
>>>
>>*Two* isolated murders?  Laporte and who else?
>>
>>I don't think it's at all true that the FLQ is always given as an
>>"example of so-called Quebec nationalism."  I certainly haven't
>>seen such a tendency in this news group.
>>
>>Tom Box
>>CZ94@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA
>
>There was someone killed by a bomb in (I think) a mailbox.
>So isolated that you don't remember both events!

There were also at least a few people injured by those
bombs that we have also forgotten. I remember a column in
the Gazette a while back (by Nick auf de Mar) in which he
talked about one bomb squad member who was so badly
injured that he is still in a chronic care hospital today.

We should also remember that when bombs were going off no
one had any idea how many people were behind the violence.
I would venture to say that even today there are few
separatists who would be willing to break windows or
spraypaint English signs. Still, it is also true that it
is probably unsafe for a merchant in many areas of
Montreal to willingly violate the sign laws and not expect
violence in the form of graffiti or broken windows.



				- peterd
From: Nick_Janow@mindlink.bc.ca (Nick Janow)
Newsgroups: can.general
Subject: Re: Bicycle Helmets
Date: 27 Jul 92 07:43:43 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: can

gaea@zooid.guild.org writes:

> To paraphrase what I said, I like going out on rides around my neighbourhood
> where I am going no more than twice the speed of a walking person. I can
> still fall off my bike, but I doubt I'll be doing much damage.

Cyclists who believe this are "potential brain injury cases."  An object
dropping 2m reaches a speed of 22.5 km/h, and it's all too easy to lose your
balance and either get tangled in the bike or panic, and thus fall over and hit
your head on a hard surface.  Serious injuries from cyclists at low or zero
speed are not a theory, they're documented statistics.  :(

> What differentiates a bicycle accident that happens when you're not moving
> and just a plain "accident"?? I mean, you can fall off of just about anything
> that's hip height or so, they don't call it a "wall accident" (gotta watch
> out for those... :)

For the statistics, I suppose the difference is in that one happens while using
a bicycle.  Why it might be worse than tripping over something or falling off a
chair is likely a combination of factors.  On a bike you are more likely to
fall sideways, rather than simply crumpling, which puts you in a more likely
position for head injuries.  Also, you might be more likely to panic or
"freeze" while losing balance on a bike, again putting your head and neck
muscles (as well as other parts of your body) in a position and condition that
could result in more serious injuries than a simple fall.  In a simple fall,
you might not tense as much, or you might twist or use your arms to minimize
the damage.

--

Nick_Janow@mindlink.bc.ca
Xref: sparky can.general:3713 can.politics:5648
Newsgroups: can.general,can.politics
From: ematias@dgp.toronto.edu (Edgar Matias)
Subject: Re: Does Quebec *want* to stay in Canada> (was Re: RACISM???...)
Organization: CSRI, University of Toronto
Date: 31 Jul 92 19:20:41 GMT


In article <1992Jul30.150058.5724@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu> ematias@dgp.toronto.e
du (Edgar Matias) writes:
>Like I keep telling, YOU DO NOT KNOW THE POINT OF VIEW OF THE MAJORITY
>OF QUEBEC.  NO ONE DOES.  The only way to find out is to have a
>referendum.

In article <1992Jul31.172648.7384@unixg.ubc.ca>, buckland@ucs.ubc.ca (Tony Buckland) replies:
> I've been cooling down on the Quebec debate since I realized -
> hardly the insight of the century, but it took me a while - that
> a lot of participants are claiming "Quebec" status to back their
> own separatist (whether the people want it or not) aims.

Are you listening Denis??

Edgar
From: loucks@Software.Mitel.COM (Jack Loucks)
Newsgroups: can.general
Subject: CTV Sports Olympic Coverage (Host Broadcaster Feed)
Date: 30 Jul 92 14:43:51 GMT
Distribution: can
Organization: Mitel. Kanata (Ontario). Canada.

I too was disappointed with CTV's olympic coverage, more
specifically Tuesday evening prime time coverage of the CANADA-USA
men's volleyball match. (Here was an exciting match, and
all the average Canuck saw was a very fragmented fifth
game which showed Canada losing!)

I called CTV sports (416) 928-6060 and was told that
CTV is having problems with the "feed from the host
broadcaster", and that this is why some of the 
coverage is so choppy...why doesn't CTV sports anchor
Rod Black apologize (on-air) for the edited coverage
if this is the case?

Simply curious,

JRL
-- 
Jack Loucks                          E-mail   : Jack.Loucks@Software.Mitel.COM
MITEL Corporation                    Phone    : (613) 592-2122 X4937
340 Legget Drive
KANATA, Ontario, CANADA K2K 1X3
From: Desiree_Bradley@mindlink.bc.ca (Desiree Bradley)
Newsgroups: can.general
Subject: Re: Does Quebec *want* to stay in Canada> (was Re: RACISM???
Date: 30 Jul 92 20:49:19 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: can

First, I will make one correction to my previous message regarding finding out
if people in Quebec want to separate.  The answer is spelled
R-E-F-E-R-E-N-D-U-M and not REFERUNDUM.  That was a typo.  I really can spell.

So you ask why people INSIDE Quebec should be allowed to make the decision on
whether or not to split up Canada.  Well, I still stand by what I said about it
not being practical (when you think of the efforts to keep Yuogoslavia
together) to keep Quebec in by force.  Frankly, I hadn't thought yesterday
about the possibility of dropping a neutron bomb (the one that I heard kills
all the people and leave the buildings standing).  However, I am very squeamish
about that sort of thing.  Obviously, my interest in keeping Canada together
has its limits.

From my vantage point in Vancouver it seems to me that the Atlantic Provinces,
Newfoundland, and Labrador will be hung out to dry if Quebec decides to leave.
Then there is the little matter of feeling that all my life I have heard, "Do
this or Quebec will leave" and "Do that or Quebec will leave."  So when
somebody on this board brought up the question of whether Quebec wants to
leave, I felt that the only way was to ask the people in Quebec (all of them).
Then we will know if people in Quebec have a longing to leave Canada (as the
Latvians, Lithuanians or Estonians had for getting out from under the USSR
after being taken over in 1940 as a result of the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact) or
if the threat of Quebec separatism is a political ploy used by the Quebec MP's
and the Quebec government to either get more federal contracts or to keep
people outside of Central Canada down.  Remember the NEP (which would never
have happened if oil was struck on Lake Ontario or in Quebec) and the CF-18
contract?

It's not that I am want to send Quebec packing but I think that it is pointless
to have opinions on whether Quebec wants to stay in Canada unless the people
there get asked.  I'm not looking forward to being told that Quebec wants to go
but I can't see how to keep them in Canada if they don't want to stay.  As for
the right of people INSIDE Quebec making the decision on splitting up Canada,
my answer to you is that life isn't always fair.


Desiree Bradley

P.S. It seems to me that a lot of Canadian history is about how Quebec (aka
Lower Canada) and Ontario (aka Upper Canada) could not get along.
From: adammot@r-node.gts.org (Adam Mottershead)
Newsgroups: can.general
Subject: Re: CTV's Olympic Coverage Sucks!
Date: 30 Jul 92 19:47:47 GMT
Distribution: can
Organization: R-node Public Access UNIX System (416-636-2026) 24hrs.

>How bad is CTV's coverage...CTV's coverage is so bad that NBC looks
>good in comparison.  Terrible editing, terrible flow, terrible 
>commentary.
>
>Would you buy a used car from Rod Black or Dan Matheson?  Tracey
>Wilson at least has potential.  Rob Faulds has been their only
>reasonably competent event announcer.  

I can disagree and agree with you on CTV/NBC's Olympics coverage.

The CTV coverage is well, lacking in the commentary department.  Most of the
commentators are just sports anchors from local CTV affiliates and have no
real play-by-play experience.  Talking about an event that has already happened
is alot easier than trying to talk about it as it happends.
 
But as for the editting and video quality, I would have to stick with CTV. 
There is a discussion on rec.video.satellite regarding the NBC Olypic
transmissions.  If you look close enough when there is a fast moving object
on the screen, there are video artifacts from the previous frame left over
(aka. ghosting).  Some people say it is in the PAL > NTSC format conversion
and others say it the video compressor NBC Is using....
Xref: sparky can.general:3341 can.politics:5264
From: steven@spxtech.qc.ca (Steven C. Potter)
Newsgroups: can.general,can.politics
Subject: Re: RACISM???/Access to English schools
Date: 21 Jul 92 17:53:30 GMT
Organization: Securiplex Technologies Inc., Montreal, Canada
X-Bytes: 921

From article <1992Jul21.001511.15200@csi.uottawa.ca>, by cbbrowne@csi.uottawa.ca (Christopher Browne):
> 
> I believe the appropriate word to interject here is: "touch\'{e}"!
> 
> If it is OK to require that anglophones be assimilated into the French
> community in Quebec, and Quebecois are happy with the idea of forced
> assimilation, then why shouldn't the anglophones of Canada require
> that the Quebecois be assimilated into the English community?  If one
> is ok, then so must be the other.  If one is NOT ok, then BOTH are
> unacceptable.  And both forms of assimilation ARE quite equivalent.
> 

   Denis? 
-- 
  ///==================================================================\\\
  ||| Steve Potter:         steven%spxtech@CAM.ORG                     |||
  ||| Expertise/Experience: Computer Systems Engineering / Real Ale /  |||
  |||                       Politics in Education in Quebec            |||
Xref: sparky can.general:3450 can.politics:5428
Newsgroups: can.general,can.politics
From: ematias@dgp.toronto.edu (Edgar Matias)
Subject: Re: RACISM???/Access to English schools
Organization: CSRI, University of Toronto
Date: 26 Jul 92 17:05:15 GMT


>No idea who is *YOU*, but...

I was reminding you that you do not speak for TROQuebec.  In your original
post you used the word "we", which implied the rest of Quebec felt as you did.
This may be navel gazing, but...

>Except for having PM and opposition leader from Quebec, what you describe
>is exactly the same situation as 30 years ago.

I don't know what things were like 30 years ago, since I was not alive 30 years
ago ;-).  All I can comment on is what I see now.  What I see is a Quebec with
considerable political power flexing its muscles and scar(r)ing the sh*t out of
the rest of the country (and possibly itself also).

>A lot of provinces with no effective French schooling.

The key words in that sentence are __effective__ & __schooling__.  The school
where I went to was bad in many areas.  This is more reflective in the 
incompetance of many teachers than anything else.               ^^^-- "of"

>This is one think that insecure us : that there is _today_ no guarantee
>at all that the 30 years ago situation can come back.

(There you go using "us"/we again.  You're not TROQq.)  I'm sorry but I
don't see how it could revert by to how it was.  All the momentum is going
the other way.  You are being paranoid.  There too many francophones in power
for such a thing to happen.  You underestimate yourselves (great, now I'm 
referring to you in the plural... :).

>when Quebec is absent, nothing,
>absolutely nothing is done to favor her.
> 
>Ca, c'est le test supreme : savoir qu'en l'absence du Quebec, c'est
>un coup de poignard dans le dos qu'on va avoir.

That is not true.  You are being paranoid again.  Quebec is not at the table now
and the TROQ is bending over backwards to meet her demands.  Besides, explain
to me how one negogiates with someone who is absent???

Edgar
Newsgroups: can.general,can.politics
From: sbo@vlsi.polymtl.ca (Stephane Boucher)
Newsgroups: can.general,can.politics
Subject: Re: RACISM???/Access to English schools
Date: 21 Jul 92 17:08:12 GMT
	<1992Jul20.204009.3372@csi.uottawa.ca>
Distribution: can
Organization: Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal

>>>>> On 20 Jul 92 20:40:09 GMT, cbbrowne@csi.uottawa.ca (Christopher Browne) said:

  > I guess that he should have known better than to cite Great Britain
  > for doing something nice.  A Quebecois would NEVER accept that
  > something good could come out of London.  Silly example,
  > Mr. Potter.

Hmmm, I recently bought KEF speakers, and at the moment
there are Peter Grabriel, Genesis, Pink Floyd and Sting CDs
on my desk.

That does not mean I want a stupid queen of Canada, for one
thing. (No offense intended to loyalists).

--
  ,                          ,                           ,
Stephane Boucher, ing. jr. | Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal
sbo@vlsi.polymtl.ca        | Tel: (514)340-5950
sbo@info.polymtl.ca        | Fax: (514)340-4078
Newsgroups: can.general,can.politics
From: fengstad@alpha.uleth.ca (Grant Fengstad)
Subject: Canadian / Air Canada
Summary: What is the general perception?
Keywords: merger, airlines
Organization: University of Lethbridge
Distribution: can
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 15:54:06 GMT

Well, with the recent announcements over the last few months affecting
so many various airlines, and more specifically, the announcement that
the "alliance" between American and Canadian Airlines has failed, I'd
like to solicit general responses and feelings on this subject.

More and more indications point to Ottawa.  In today's Globe, the
Federal Gov't admitted they had a lot to do with the failed
American/Canadian alliance.  Seems that they were willing to purchase 3
aircraft from Canadian, if and only if Canadian would begin merger talks
with Air Canada.  The motivation:  It appears to save Quebec jobs at the
expense of Ontario and Western Canadian jobs (please don't flame me, I'm
only stating what I've read).  

I for one am tired of the Gov't getting their fingers dirty doing closet
deals such as this.  I am speaking somewhat emotionally as this may
directly affect my employment as well.  

What do people out there think?  Is this going to save the "Airline
Industry" in Canada or is it the beginning of a monopoly?  

--
#====================================================================#
# Grant M. Fengstad		     E Mail: fengstad@alpha.Uleth.CA #
# Manager, Network Operations	     Voice:     (403) 382-6724       #
# Canadian Regional Airlines Ltd.    FAX:	(403) 327-1229       #
#====================================================================#
Xref: sparky can.general:3424 can.politics:5387
From: myhui@bnr.ca (Michael Hui)
Subject: Chevron gas stations
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada
Distribution: can
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 23:27:43 GMT

This brand name exists in the USA, but not in Canada.
I remember that it did at one time exist.
What happened to it? Can we get Chevron products here in Canada?
Xref: sparky can.general:3535 can.politics:5496
From: steven@spxtech.qc.ca (Steven C. Potter)
Newsgroups: can.general,can.politics
Subject: Re: RACISM???/Access to English schools
Date: 28 Jul 92 14:21:34 GMT
Organization: Securiplex Technologies Inc., Montreal, Canada
X-Bytes: 1511

From article <Bs2tos.AL6@ireq.hydro.qc.ca>, by beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca
 Denis Beauregard writes:-

>>world, therefore, women should hold 51% of posts in government. There are
>>40% anglophones in Quebec, therefore they should have 40% of the radio
>
> There _was_, and this in Montreal, not in Quebec (was never more than 20%)

  The percentage of the TOTAL Quebec population of English mother tongue
  has fallen from 24% in 1861 to less than 10% today.

  I have the figures for Montreal at home - I'll dig them up later.
  Montreal is much higher, of course.

> 
> [Stuff deleted]
> 
>    ...  If it is constantly necessary to fight to have something, this is
> not exactly dignity.

  Thank you!

  You are showing signs of understanding something of my position.

  Constantly fighting to gain the right to have your children attend the
  publicly funded school of your choice; in their own neighbourhood; in
  their own language; is not exactly "dignity" is it!?

> Why is that "united" Canada unable to find something that Quebec will accept?

  That's a good question.

  Put it another way:-

  Why is it that the nationalists in Quebec can not accept anything "united"
  Canada has to offer?
  
-- 
  ///==================================================================\\\
  ||| Steve Potter:         steven%spxtech@CAM.ORG                     |||
  ||| Expertise/Experience: Computer Systems Engineering / Real Ale /  |||
  |||                       Politics in Education in Quebec            |||
Newsgroups: can.general,can.politics,soc.culture.canada
From: sbo@vlsi.polymtl.ca (Stephane Boucher)
Subject: Re: RACISM???/Access to English schools
Organization: Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 00:32:24 GMT


>>>>> On 23 Jul 92 18:31:29 GMT, steven@spxtech.qc.ca (Steven C. Potter) said:
  > X-Bytes: 708

  > Denis,
   [...]
  > I am waiting for your response ...

Oh, in that case I'll say something similar: I'm still
waiting for your comment on the meaning of "where number
warrants". I'm also waiting your comment regarding the fact
that you do not get together with the other minorities of
Canada (e.g. Francophone in CSQ) to tackle the question in a
more global way.

Merci d'avance.
--
  ,                          ,                           ,
Stephane Boucher, ing. jr. | Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal
sbo@vlsi.polymtl.ca        | Tel: (514)340-5950
sbo@info.polymtl.ca        | Fax: (514)340-4078
Xref: sparky can.general:3538 can.politics:5503