HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Organization: Virginia Polytechnic Institute
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.relusr-l
Date:         Thu, 21 Jan 1993 23:50:48 EST
From:         Valdis Kletnieks <VALDIS@VTVM1.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Ops and all this private garbage.

On Thu, 21 Jan 1993 18:50:41 -0500 <PIMBRES1@ITHACA> said:
>PS- What exactly is the point where the descriptive becomes obscene.  It might
>be good to know.  :p

If it helps any,  I personally judge by the rule  "Would they allow this
to be said on prime-time US network TV without <bleep>ing it?"

This  has  the advantages  of  being  understood  by most  native  North
Americans, being reasonably easy to  judge violations, and still allow a
great deal of flexibility for the  users. Note that "intent" enters into
it - consider that Dr.  Ruth discussing something would almost certainly
be allowed, but the average low-budget skin-flik showing it would not be
allowed.  Also  note  that  creative  use of  the  English  language  is
encouraged - it  is amazing what (for instance)  "Married with Children"
or "The Golden Girls" gets away with....

Hopefully that injects a *little* light...

/Valdis
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.relusr-l
Date:         Thu, 21 Jan 1993 23:49:56 EST
From:         V C Morrison <ENMORRIS@ECUVM1.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Channels....
              21 Jan 1993 17:39:15 EST from <VALDIS@VTVM1.CC.VT.EDU>

Sounds VERY cool, Valdis.  <smile>


_________/
________/\
_______/\ \
______/\ \ \
_____/\ \ \ \     "If I cannot bring you comfort,
____/\ \ \ \ \     Then at least I bring you hope."
___/\ \ \ \ \ \
__/\ \ \ \ \ \ \
  \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \
   \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\-={W A L K   T H E   W E B}=_________________________
   / / / / / / / /                           enmorris@ecuvm1.bitnet
  / / / / / / / /      []dreamweaver[]   enmorris@ecuvax.cis.ecu.edu
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Subject: (no subject given)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.relusr-l
Date:         Thu, 21 Jan 1993 14:03:28 -0500
From:         "David L. Boucher" <FAC2445@UOFT01.BITNET>

if there is to be any change to the current default of /signon to channel
one, i propose that the default be to assign users to a random channel
from 2-99.  that should satisfy anyone who is so xxxx that they can't even
select their own channel and so want RELAY to do it for them.

- xenon
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.relusr-l
Date:         Fri, 22 Jan 1993 13:35:16 EST
From:         V C Morrison <ENMORRIS@ECUVM1.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Changing /signon options ?

IRC is the Internet Relay Chat.  It's similar to bitnet relay, except its large
r, faster, and ten times more obnoxious.  I try to stay away from it when I can
.  Besides, there's already a DreamWvr there (shorter nicknames).  Only one of
me to a system.  <gryn>


_________/
________/\
_______/\ \
______/\ \ \
_____/\ \ \ \     "If I cannot bring you comfort,
____/\ \ \ \ \     Then at least I bring you hope."
___/\ \ \ \ \ \
__/\ \ \ \ \ \ \
  \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \
   \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\-={W A L K   T H E   W E B}=_________________________
   / / / / / / / /                           enmorris@ecuvm1.bitnet
  / / / / / / / /      []dreamweaver[]   enmorris@ecuvax.cis.ecu.edu
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.relusr-l
Date:         Fri, 22 Jan 1993 13:50:44 CST
From:         "Jim Glover (Key), Relay Op" <SPJRG@LATECH.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Changing /signon options ?

>For example, I'm usually on one channel, which is a fairly random
>number.  I have NEVER seen anyone else on that channel unless they are
>a friend or I /invited them.

Everything I'm saying about this becomes obsolete when the new version
of Relay comes out, but until *everyone* is using it, this "old way"
of doing things still applies, that is...

If you are a "general class" (class 3) user, and can use *huge* channel
numbers, you can get away with your line of thinking, but then again,
not if you use a channel number like "7654321" or something else with
an obvious pattern.  It simply is not acceptable to pop in without an
invitation on 100-999 (with the only exception being channels like 333
or 561, often used by many).  In the last year or so, I've both found the
channel I was used to thinking of as "mine" (which was 832 until someone
else started using that one quite a bit) occuppied, and I've had people
/signon to that channel, or other private channels, uninvited.  It's
simply not acceptable to shrug the whole thing off by saying, "Well, as
long as I only occasionally violate someone's privacy, that's OK."
It's not.

When the new version of Relay is universally available, with its "semi-
private" and "private" distinction, it won't be possible for a user to
do things they shouldn't (*grin*  ...well, at least not with respect to
signing on private channels).  But until the time comes that everyone has
access to the new version, it is at least a serious violation of Relay
etiquette to /signon or /ch to channels 100-999 without an invitation,
or without checking first to confirm that the channel is, in fact, empty.

>BTW, what is IRC??

IRC is the Internet version of Relay.  To use it, you must have an account
on a system which is on Internet, and which has an "IRC server".  (Also,
there are sites you can Telnet to which allow limited IRC access.)  IRC
has no equivalent to Relay's ops.  But one concept IRC does have which has
been hinted at here recently is the concept of a "channel op" who controls
access to and some of the behavior of a channel (s)he has created, or has
been granted control of.
                                --Jim (Key)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.relusr-l
From: ckd@eff.org (Christopher Davis)
Subject: Re: Relay Ops and IRC Equivalent
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation Tech Central
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 19:15:27 GMT

RJ> == Rich Jacobs <RJACOBS@CCVM.SUNYSB.EDU>

 RJ> This is one of the major reasons why I avoid IRC most of the time.
 RJ> There are *to many* people with higher privalages on IRC and I see
 RJ> this "channel op" privelage as being abused to a very high degree.

So start your own channel.

 RJ> I have been on channels where people are booted off for no reason at
 RJ> all.

So start your own channel.

 RJ> It is not uncommon to see 5 and 6 people booted off a channel.

So leave that channel and start your own channel.

 RJ> When you have so many people that have that type of power, there is a
 RJ> great chance of it being abused.  And I have seen it in action.

So go to a different channel.

The whole point of channel operators on IRC was to allow users to have more
power over their own destinies--both to get IRC operators out of the
business of resolving user-user disputes and to take some of the "glamour"
out of being an IRC operator.

If you want a quiet channel for people to converse, and you don't want
anyone kicking, or whatever, start your channel, invite some people, and
don't give anyone else channel operator!
--
 * Christopher Davis * <ckd@eff.org> * <ckd@kei.com> * [CKD1] * MIME * RIPEM *
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X-VMS-To: IN%"RELUSR-L@NCSUVM.BITNET"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.relusr-l
Date:         Mon, 25 Jan 1993 23:08:00 EST
From:         ALYOSHA@DRYCAS.BITNET
Subject:      Please CEASE all posts to this list temporarily!

Effective IMMEDIATELY, please DO NOT POST to this list.  In other words,
the post you are now reading should be the last one you read for a while.

If you haven't noticed, RELUSR-L has been locked, and no new SUBscriptions
have been accepted for about two weeks now.  The reason for this is that
the list owner's account is currently inaccessible to her and she has been
unable to log on and delete those people subscribed to the list from
accounts which no longer exist.  As a result, for every message sent to
the list (including this one, unfortunately) an error message is generated
back to her account for every invalid userid@node subscribed.  As you can
imagine, her mailbox is filling quickly and uncontrollably.  So, for the
time being, DO NOT POST to this list.

If you have general questions about Relay, please feel free to direct
them to me or to any Relay Operator you see signed onto Relay.  The
general discussion of Relay, however, will have to cease until the list
owner returns and reactivates the list.

Thank you for your understanding and cooperation.  If you have any
questions about this post, reply directly to me, NOT to the list.

- Alex Rudd - <Alyosha> - Relay Operator, Va_Tech Relay
 ahrjj@cunyvm   or   alyosha@drycas
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Subject: (no subject given)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.relusr-l
Date:         Tue, 26 Jan 1993 13:01:01 CST
From:         "Ajay J. Patel." <FREE2019@UIUCVMD.BITNET>

Where can i get the files to get access to IRC from my VM account?
Thank you, in advance.

--AJ.  Free2019@uiucvmd.cso.uiuc.edu
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.relusr-l
Date:         Tue, 26 Jan 1993 11:13:10 EST
From:         Sheila Patterson <SFP@CORNELLC.CIT.CORNELL.EDU>
Subject:      Re: The easiest way to become a RELAY OP........
              26 Jan 1993 10:56:52 EST from
              <IP25348%PORTLAND.BITNET@CORNELLA.cit.cornell.edu>

Wow... is that how it's done ?    -Sheila <Mom>, Ithaca_NY Master Op


On Tue, 26 Jan 1993 10:56:52 EST <IP25348%PORTLAND.BITNET@CORNELLA.cit.cornell.e
>The easiest way to become a RELAY OP is......
>to sleep with a MASTER OP (or so I am told)
>
>Nick "Stimpy" Brassard
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X-VMS-Cc: KYCHENG
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.relusr-l
Date:         Tue, 26 Jan 1993 09:47:00 GMT+0800
From:         "K.Y. Cheng (852) 789-6840" <KYCHENG@OLIV1.OLI.HK>

The rule of thumb is obscene...

That rule says you can whip your wife, so long the whip is no thicker than the
size your thumb!!

Apparently in Ye Olde England, husbands were entitled to apply the "rule"
without fear of being punished....
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Original_To:  JNET%"relusr-l@ncsuvm"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.relusr-l
Date:         Tue, 26 Jan 1993 13:32:00 MST
From:         MCBRAYER@SMC.BITNET
Subject:      Re: becoming an op

>The easiest way to become a RELAY OP is......
>to sleep with a MASTER OP (or so I am told)

Hmm...guess that means I shouldn't take any trips to Los Angeles.  I didn't
realize there was a 'charge'.  Sorry, Jafop. ;-)

Devil/Reprobate
From: SAWYER@NAUVAX.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.relusr-l
Subject: Re: The easiest way to become a RELAY OP........
Date: 26 Jan 93 17:05:31 GMT
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Stimpy says
>The easiest way to become a RELAY OP is......
>to sleep with a MASTER OP (or so I am told)

I hope there is a lot more to it than that.

Scott "Knight"  Sawyer
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Organization: Virginia Polytechnic Institute
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.relusr-l
Date:         Thu, 21 Jan 1993 12:02:52 EST
From:         Valdis Kletnieks <VALDIS@VTVM1.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Changing /signon options ?

On Thu, 21 Jan 1993 14:51:34 MET Fred Melssen said:
>Good suggestion. Maybe the following one is even better: Do not allocote
>users on any channel at all when they sign on. Only when they choose
>a channel by themselves they are put on it.

Fred:

Yes, that's an even better suggestion.  Unfortunately, there's currently
some 14,000 lines of code in Relay V2, most of which makes the rather
rash assumption that a user is always on some channel.

I have a few ideas on how to hack this into working correctly, but there's
*no* way to do it and be backward compatible.  In other words, I have to
put the support code into V2.07 so the relay doesn't crash, get all the sites
to upgrade, then release V2.08 that actually allows users to do it.

As for the original query - the reason that /signon fails if ch 1 is full
is because when I was writing the code, I figured that it would be rather
confusing for novice users if they did a /signon, and found themselves on
channel 3 or 4 (which could happen if 1,2, and 3 are all full).  Then you'd
get all the problems of "I did a /names 1, I signed on, and all the users are
different"...

It's easy enough to code the change if there's sufficient demand for it..

/Valdis
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Organization: SPIE - The International Society for Optical Engineering
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Date:         Fri, 22 Jan 93 00:58:09 GMT
From:         AL@MOM.SPIE.ORG
Subject:      WordPerfect Office 3.1
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.pmdf-l

We've been looking into purchasing WP Office 3.1 and one of our questions
is how/if this will interface with PMDF (4.1-7).  Whilst I wade through
the WP Office manuals I thought I'd see if anyone has any input on the
viability of this idea.

Muchas gracias for any info.
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Date:         Fri, 22 Jan 93 05:03:10 GMT
From:         sysprgd@ROADS.SA.GOV.AU
Subject:      PMDF to/from MRGATE & MR (NO PMDF_MR)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.pmdf-l


I am looking for a quick/simple(?) method to handle mail between PMDF on one
node of a non-homogeneous cluster and DEC's MRGATE and All-in-1 Mail (not IOS)
based on another node of the cluster.

The main difficulty I face (until I can relocate the MR component to the node
with PMDf and install PMDF-MR [hooray! but not in the shorter term...]) is the
rewriting of the from addresses of the mail entering PMDF from MRGATE. The
from address typically looks like

        "RTWKV::MRGATE::\"AM::SYSPRGD\""@Roads.SA.Gov.AU

when it reaches it's destination.
RTWKV = cluster alias
AM = All-in-1 Mail MR mailbox

I would have thought the best method would be to attempt to rewrite the from
address to something more like

                sysprgd@mrgate.Roads.SA.Gov.AU

which is then easy to handle on the incoming side.

Any examples, ideas or suggestions more than welcome!!

Thanks,

        Mike.
_______________________________________________________________________________
        Mike de Laine
        Email:  mike@roads.sa.gov.au Phone: +61 8 343 2469 Fax: +61 8 343 2768
___   ___  ___  ___   ___  ___  ___  ___  ___  ___  ___  ___  ___  ___ ___  ___
        Post :  Dept. of Road Transport, Information Technology,
                PO Box 1, Walkerville, South Australia, 5081.
_______________________________________________________________________________
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Date:         Thu, 21 Jan 93 19:30:11 WET+0100
From:         "David P. Morgan" <david@ITTPUB.NL>
Subject:      Internet mail/X.400 ?
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.pmdf-l


I couldn't find anywhere more suitable to post this ...

Does anyone know how one can send from Internet to X.400 and vice versa ?
Is there a gateway which is available to all and how would the addresses
be mapped to one another ?

thanks in advance

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David P. Morgan                        Internet: david@ittpub.nl        |ucannot
ITT Publitec R+D BV                    UUCP:     ...!sun4nl!ittpub!david|readdis
Amsterdam                              PSI:      020412905761212::DAVID |onavt52
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Date:         Tue, 26 Jan 93 20:44:31 GMT
From:         "Daniel C. Newman" <DAN@SIGURD.INNOSOFT.COM>
Subject:      RE: PMDF-FAX question
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.pmdf-l
              26 Jan 1993 10:52:43 -0700" <9301261752.AA21505@drifter.uwyo.edu>


> We are considering various FAX solutions for the campus e-mail network. The
> problem that we have with most of them is handling inbound FAXs. Several
> PC FAX vendors support the use of Direct Inward Dialing (DID), usually via an
> EXACOM DID module. The DID module passes to the FAX server the "actual" phone
> number that was dialed. The server then uses this to route the FAX to the
> correct e-mail user. This solution is fine except that it does not address all

> possible e-mail systems on campus and the cost for some of the PC software is
> very high.
>
> Is there any way to currently use a DID type line with PMDF-FAX, or are there
> plans for such. We like the way PMDF-FAX works but dont want to have to someon
   e
> there to manually route the incoming FAXs.

To the best of my knowledge there is still only one DID capable, external FAX
modem.  That is the FaxBox line from DCE corporation.  These modems are,
however, pricy (e.g., a FaxBox/30 costs ~ $2,500 and that's without the DID
module).

PMDF-FAX does support the DCE FaxBox line and 4.2 supports the DID routing
capabilities of the FaxBox.

DCE is in Stamford, Connecticut.  There phone number is (203) 358-3940.

Dan
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Date:         Fri, 22 Jan 93 03:07:49 GMT
From:         Jeremy Begg <JEREMY@VSM.COM.AU>
Subject:      RE: Telex channels for PMDF
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.pmdf-l

>> Is anyone aware of a third party product that would give PMDF the capability
>>to send and receive Telexes - preferably using a Hasler Telex box?
>
>Digital has (or used to have) a Message Router/Telex gateway (MR/Telex I
>believe it is called).  PMDF and PMDF-MR should connect you to that although
>I don't personally know of anyone who has done this.

I don't know if Innosoft is aware of this, but here's something a friend of mine

told me.  He works for a government financial authority, and a while ago they
were looking around for electronic mail systems.  They considered PMDF, but had
to reject it because it does not include a Telex interface.

Apparently, FAX is not a legally acceptable means of communicating financial
information, because of problems with authentication, so they have to use Telex
instead.  If PMDF had Telex, they would probably have purchased it.  Perhaps
there's a whole market that Innosoft are missing out on?

Regards,

        Jeremy Begg

  +----------------------------------------------------------+
  | VSM Software Services,  |  E-Mail:  jeremy@vsm.com.au    |
  | P.O.Box 801, Unley,     |   Phone:  +61 8 4145074 (pager)|
  | South Australia 5061    |     FAX:  +61 8 3734911        |
  +----------------------------------------------------------+
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Date:         Thu, 21 Jan 93 20:10:42 GMT
From:         The PMDF Postmaster <MAC@GVG34.GVG.TEK.COM>
Subject:      Aliases and FAXen
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.pmdf-l

Hello,

We have been happily using PMDF-FAX for sometime now.  I now am being asked
to add lots of aliases to make sending FAXes easier.  The rub is that the
users would like to use an alias and override some of the attribute pairs
when then send the message.  This would allow specifying a unique ``please
deliver this to'' without having to remember the phone number.  Can I do
this?  How do I do this?

Thanks in advance,

Bill
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Date:         Mon, 25 Jan 93 21:02:15 GMT
From:         Ned Freed <NED@SIGURD.INNOSOFT.COM>
Subject:      RE: WordPerfect Office 3.1
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.pmdf-l
              21 Jan 1993 11:40:21 -0700 (PDT)"
              <01GTS28V1C82000AET@mom.spie.org>

> We've been looking into purchasing WP Office 3.1 and one of our questions
> is how/if this will interface with PMDF (4.1-7).  Whilst I wade through
> the WP Office manuals I thought I'd see if anyone has any input on the
> viability of this idea.

If you're referring to the VMS implementation, there is a foreign protocol
interface to VMS MAIL that PMDF can talk to. This interface does work, but
a fair amount of richness is lost (attachments, formatting, etc.).
Unfortunately, there is no API we can use to build our own interface on
VMS.

WP Office on PCs doesn't have either the VMS MAIL interface or an API, but
there is hope since the next release of the product is supposed to have an API.
We are already involved in building a gateway using this interface.
I don't know if this API will be available on VMS; I doubt it. There may
eventually be some other API on VMS; we'll just have to wait for WPCorp to
figure out what they are doing in this area before we'll be able to do
anything.

                                Ned
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Date:         Wed, 27 Jan 93 19:19:57 GMT
From:         John C Klensin <KLENSIN@INFOODS.MIT.EDU>
Subject: RE: trying to reach a Bitnet address
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.pmdf-l

>I just rebuilt my config
>database.  When I look into the xmailer.nodes file, the node is there and
>designated as net.EARN as opposed to net.BITNET what I think it should be, or
>shouldn't it?  How can reach that node?

Idiots!

Anna,
  Fixing this is a two-step process and I would strongly encourage you
to take both steps.

(1) Either edit the xmailer.nodes file to replace :net.EARN with
:net.BITNET globally before using it or (I suspect this will work, but
am not sure) go into your PMDF.CNF file and insert a rewrite rule to
change any occurrences of string.EARN it encounters into string.BITNET.

I would recommend checking the xmailer.nodes to be sure that it doesn't
contain such bogons as net.GULFNET also; if so, you will need to patch
those too.

(2) Figure out your xmailer.nodes file is coming from.  If it is a copy
of BITNIC's XMAILER NAMES, send, or have your BITREP send (if you are
not that person) a strong note to CREN protesting changes in the content
and semantics of these key files without consultation and approval (or
at least advanced warning) to members.

It might be worthwhile pointing out that this sort of thing doesn't
inspire institutional conviction that CREN dues are worth paying if
there are other options (see the last few days of flaming on FUTURE-L
for the context of that remark).

  john
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