HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jeff@meaddata.com (Jeff Finton)
Subject: Re: Balls bouncing off water
Followup-To: Balls bouncing off water
Organization: Mead Data Central, Dayton OH
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 22:35:43 GMT

In article <1992Oct5.100753.11867@st-andrews.ac.uk>, cdcs@st-andrews.ac.uk (Colin D. C. Steele) writes:
|> On THREE occasions in recent months, I have made a mess of iron shots over a
|> water hazard (pond on 14th/15th on Eden course, St Andrews) and the ball has
|> bounced off the water. On two of the occasions, it arrived safely back on
|> dry land while on the other occasion, it bounced off the water 6 times before
|> sinking in the 7th time.
|> 
|> Is this sort of thing more common than would appear (i.e. has it happened to
|> others) or is it just that I play badly enough to put the wrong sort of spin
|> on the ball and it comes to my aid on occasions like this ?
|> 
|> CDC

I once birdied what was then the 8th hole at the Findlay, Ohio Country Club by
skipping two wood shots out of the Blanchard River which crosses the hole in
front of both the tee and the green.  The first shot was a badly topped and
typically violent drive from an elevated tee.  It skipped the four foot bank of
the river and ended up about three feet past the river bank.  On the second
shot I attempted to carry a three wood about 200 yards over the bend in the
river and moderately topped it to see it dive into the river and then skip out
and roll about 30 yards to within 3 feet for a birdie put.

So it does happen and if any body could tell me how to do this consistently I
could shure improve my handicap.  All those balls I feed to the fish sure add
to it!


-- 
___________________________________________________________________________________
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeff Finton         |  The most beautiful thing we can   |  Software Platforms
Mead Data Central   |  can experience is the mysterious. |  (513) 865-1792
P.O. Box 933        |                                    |  jeff@meaddata.com
Dayton, Ohio 45401  |                -- Albert Einstein  |  ...!uunet!meaddata!jeff
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: WLC@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu (Bill Cunningham)
Subject: Re: Help me straighten my drive
Organization: Yale University
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 13:33:36 EDT

In article <1992Sep21.182217.10760@mmm.serc.3m.com>
us267384@mmm.serc.3m.com (Steven M. Anastasi) writes:
 
>I figure that I still have a fundamental problem with an outside-
>inside swing.  What can I do to stop doing this?  I've tried the
>flatter swing, I've tried keeping my leading elbow in tight to
>my body, etc.
>
Is it your LEADING elbow that you are worried about? Or your trailing elbow?
I.e. the right elbow for a righthanded golfer.
>
I would say that your pro worked before, you might consider returning for a
lesson or two. You did not say how well you played this summer, but I will
assume that you have played for a while and have a good basic swing. If this
is not true and you want to be sure that you have built a sound swing go the
the bookstore. Purchase Ben Hogan's Five Lessons: The Modern Fundamentals of
Golf. There are many ways to swing a golf club, despite what Mr. Leadbetter
might say. However I do agree with the great Mr. Hogan, there are certain
fundamentals that are common to all the swings of the greats. Hogan's book
if STUDIED WITH DILIGENCE is as good as any guide to acquiring these
fundamentals and incorporating them into a sound repeating swing as any there
is. Again it is not the only such guide but it is proven and approachable one.
 
If you are confident that you have a pretty good swing Hogan might still help
but you also might want to leave him alone. Still go to the bookstore.
Purchase Harvey Penick's Little Red Book. This is a new book by one of the
all time great teachers of the game. Crenshaw and Kite are among his pupils,
although this doesn't really matter. Pay attention to nearly everything
Penick says but pay particular attention to his Slow Motion Drill and The
Magic Move. Practice the Move the way Mr. Penick says to practice the Move. I
will not summarize the Move because that would be an injustice to the poetry
Mr. Penick brings to the description.
 
If you are comfortable with your pro, and you did state that he helped you
earlier, then try to incorporate your understanding of Mr. Hogan and/or Mr.
Penick with a few lessons with your teaching professional. One of the many
things about which Mr. Penick is correct is that the pro can often spot in
five minutes the flaw it would take you a month to isolate on the range.
 
Happy practice,
 
Bill Cunninham
From: cdcs@st-andrews.ac.uk (Colin D. C. Steele)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Balls bouncing off water
Date: 5 Oct 92 10:07:53 GMT
Organization: St. Andrews University, Scotland.

On THREE occasions in recent months, I have made a mess of iron shots over a
water hazard (pond on 14th/15th on Eden course, St Andrews) and the ball has
bounced off the water. On two of the occasions, it arrived safely back on
dry land while on the other occasion, it bounced off the water 6 times before
sinking in the 7th time.

Is this sort of thing more common than would appear (i.e. has it happened to
others) or is it just that I play badly enough to put the wrong sort of spin
on the ball and it comes to my aid on occasions like this ?

CDC
From: jsm3916@ritvax.isc.rit.edu (J. Steven Mayer)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Handicap.
Date: 28 Sep 92 19:09:35 GMT
Reply-To: jsm3916@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology


	How is your handicap calculated and what is it used for?
Also, if you were to choose a ball to play, based solely on distance, say for a
really long par 5, what would you choose?


l8r
-Steve

P.S. - I finally got a Birdie!  Too bad I missed that long put for Eagle, :(
but who's complainin' ;)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: lcn@nlcd00.cft.philips.nl (Leo Noordhuizen)
Subject: Re: Hitting straight
Organization: Philips Centre For Technology, Eindhoven
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 08:20:10 GMT

Jim Southard (southard@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM) wrote:
: >   I took up golf recently (2 weeks ago to be exact). After driving
: >   I guess must be close to 1,000 balls by now, with a 7-iron and
: >   #1 wood, my both hands are acheing very bad.
: 
: ....
: 2.  Wrong grip.  I had my right hand too strong (BTW, I'm right handed), with
:     the thumb/forefinger groove pointing outside my right shoulder and my
:     thumb on top-right of the shaft.  It caused me to push with my
:     thumb/forefinger combo and made my thumb sore.  I now make sure to
:     keep my right thumb on the left side of the shaft, lightly
:     against the tip of my left forefinger.

                            ^^^^
That is a very difficult thing to do!  :-)  I presume you meant
the right forefinger.

As an aside: Has anybody hints on how to get rid of the tension
and resulting struggling at (important) matches ? Normally I play
reasonbly (handicap 17), but find it very hard to play on that
level when things matter.
--
  Leo C. Noordhuizen	          uucp: lcn@nlcd00.cft.philips.nl
  Philips - Automation Technology phone: 31-40-735834
  Building SAQ,                   5600 MD  Eindhoven, The Netherlands
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: ear@sei.cmu.edu (Eugene Rindels)
Subject: golf news
Organization: Software Engineering Institute
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 12:01:16 GMT


Part of an interview Jonh Daly gave UPI.



	``I can honestly say that there is nothing wrong with my life right
now,'' he says. ``In fact, it's terrific.''
	It got a little bit better Sunday when he won the B.C. Open by six
strokes, his first victory since his remarkable run at the 1991 PGA
Championship.
	``Compared to the way I used to live, this is a dream,'' said Daly,
who drank far too much at one time. ``On the whole I'm proud of the way
I handled myself in this situation. I'm 26 and making decisions that
most people don't face until they're in their 40s or later. Yeah, I
think I'm doing pretty good.''
	The former Arkansas All-America with the booming drives burst onto
the golf scene last year when he came off the alternate's list the night
before the PGA Championship and won the title at Crooked Stick in
Indiana.
	He finished the year 17th on the money list, led the tour in driving
distance with a record 288-yard average and was named Rookie of the
Year. Then came the crutiny and the forecasts of immediate greatness.
And the pressure grew each week he didn't win or made a careless or
angry remark.
	``I couldn't focus on golf until I was able to close the book on my
defense of the PGA,'' says Daly, who shot an 18-under-par 266, one shot
off the B.C. Open record, to beat Ken Green, Jay Haas, Joel Edwards and
Nolan Henke.
	``You've got to be focused to win out here. Since then I've been able
to pay attention to the game. You need 100 percent concentration on golf
to succeed.''
	He says he shortened his booming swing in preparation for the tight,
6,966-yard par-71 En Joie Golf Club. But he still put on a driving
exhibition unparalleled in the 20-year history of the community-
sponsored tournament -- capped by a 340-plus yard drive on the 72nd hole
before a gallery of nearly 12,000.
	``Coming down the 18th your heart's pounding and the hair is sticking
straight up on your arms -- there's no feeling like it,'' said Daly,
whose career earnings of $941,938 is the highest ever by a second-year
pro. ``I've always said that I play for the fans.''
	Next year's B.C. Open, which is named for a nationally syndicated
cartoon character created by Endicott native Johnny Hart, will be played
opposite the Ryder Cup matches in Europe -- which should keep the sport's
biggest names away from Endicott. But not Daly.
	``Right now I don't think that I'd accept a Ryder Cup invitation even
if I did have the points,'' he said. ``I'd like my first Ryder Cup
appearance to be in the United States. I want our fans to see it.
	``I told Alex (Alexander, the B.C. Open director) that I'd be back
here next year. The only thing I asked was for the same four partners
that I had in this year's pro-am. He said that would be OK.''


-----------
Eugene A. Rindels    ear@sei.cmu.edu     Former SSgt  USMC "Semper Fi"
Real-Time Systems Program
Software Engineering Institute
Carnegie Mellon University, Pittsburgh PA
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: davet@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (Dave Tutelman)
Subject: Re: Build-your-own Catalogs
Organization: AT&T Bell Labs - Lincroft, NJ
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 12:10:26 GMT

In article <718327113.F00002@tdkt.kksys.com> David.Moore@tdkt.kksys.com (David Moore) writes:
>
>Comments/recommendations on golf component companies:

... [ some good info deleted ] ...
>
>Golfsmith emphasizes that swingweight of clubs really isn't that big
>a deal and their selection of  components  reflect  that  (very  few
>clubs  with swingweight ports). Golfworks, however, is OBSESSED with
>swingweight and offer most  of  their  components  with  swingweight
>options. Dynacraft seems to care a bit about swingweight.

It's worth noting that Golfsmith's stated position on swingweight isn't
just that it doesn't matter.  They're in favor of lighter weight and
lighter swingweight, as promoting higher clubhead speed.  As has been
repeatedly posted, that's a valid position, provided you can control
the club.  You therefore might expect Golfsmith's typical clubheads
to be a few grams lighter than the others', and in general the irons are.

Unfortunately, Golfsmith hasn't kept the courage of their convictions on
this issue.  They do sell "graphite weighted" clubheads (heavier heads,
ostensibly to compensate for lighter graphite shafts).  In fact, they
made an unadvertised switch in their "Big Gun" driver head, adding ten
grams so it's graphite weighted.  (Speculation about the REAL reason is
in the past; "graphite weighting" is what I'm told by THREE of their
technical people.)
So, having failed to convince the market of the correctness of their
position, they're again playing the "target swingweight" game.

Dave
From: davet@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (Dave Tutelman)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Re: Graphite Shafts
Date: 1 Oct 92 12:19:24 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Labs - Lincroft, NJ

In article <ILH.92Sep30182800@winnie-the-pooh.lcs.mit.edu> ilh@lcs.mit.edu writes:
>What's a typical torque rating for a steel shaft, say a TT Dynamic Gold?

When I asked this question of one of the component places (either GolfSmith
or GolfWorks, don't remember), they checked with their technical expert and
came back with an answer of between 1 and 2 degrees (closer to 1).

It takes a REAL expensive composite shaft to be that stiff torsionally,
and I believe torsional stiffness is much more important in an iron shaft
than a driver shaft.

Hope this helps.

Dave
From: gilbert@CS.ColoState.EDU (brian david gilbert)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Re: Balls bouncing off water
Date: 5 Oct 92 15:37:26 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department

In article <1992Oct5.100753.11867@st-andrews.ac.uk> cdcs@st-andrews.ac.uk (Colin D. C. Steele) writes:
>On THREE occasions in recent months, I have made a mess of iron shots over a
>water hazard (pond on 14th/15th on Eden course, St Andrews) and the ball has
>bounced off the water. On two of the occasions, it arrived safely back on
>dry land while on the other occasion, it bounced off the water 6 times before
>sinking in the 7th time.
>Is this sort of thing more common than would appear (i.e. has it happened to
>others) or is it just that I play badly enough to put the wrong sort of spin
>on the ball and it comes to my aid on occasions like this ?
>CDC

I can't speak for everyone but I've had balls skip like a stone
off the water and land back on the fairway.  We were playing
yesterday on a new course in Loveland, Co. called Mariana's
Butte when one of the women tried to hit an iron over the water
in the corner of a dogleg.  The ball skip off the water 5 times
before hopping back on the fairway and rolling onto the green
within 3 feet of the hole, pretty amazing!

I don't think it has anything to do with the spin on the ball,
I think it has to do with the speed of the ball.  Try skipping
round rocks sometime, if you throw them hard enough they'll skip.
Same goes for a golfball.

By the way, Mariana's Butte is one beautiful course.  It just opened
in Aug.  It has spectacular views of the Colorado foothills.  I prefer
the back nine over the front nine, because of the hills.  Number 14
is my favorite, it's a 120 yard, par 3.  What makes it hard is the 65-70
foot drop in elevation between tee and green.  Boy, talk about leaving
ball marks on the green, I'm having to fix 1.5 inch deep marks.  I
only wish other's would do the same for their ball marks.  I end up
fixing mine plus 4 or 5 others on almost every hole.  I guess I look
at it as my contribution to keeping the game enjoyable for the rest
of us. :-)

May your drives be straight and your putts true!

Brian


-- 
*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*
* Email: gilbert@cs.colostate.edu | Yes my life is better left to chance  *
* Computer Info Processing Spec.  | I could have missed the pain but I'd  *
* Morgan Lib. Colo. State Univer. | of had to miss the dance. Garth Brooks*
From: d90gl@efd.lth.se (Gustaf Loefberg)
Subject: Re: Golf News
Reply-To: d90gl@efd.lth.se (Gustaf Loefberg)
Organization: Lund Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 08:38:58 GMT

In article <1992Sep28.134049.13518@sei.cmu.edu>, ear@sei.cmu.edu (Eugene Rindels) writes:
|> 
|> 
|> 
|> 
|> John Daly shot a 4-under-par 67 to win the $800,000 B.C. Open in
|> Endicott, N.Y., by six strokes.
|> Ken Green, Nolan Henke, Jay Haas and Joel Edwards tied for second. 
|> 
|> Spain's Miguel Angel Jimenez first European Tour victory with a three-stroke
|> over Nick Faldo to triumph in the $1.02 million Belgian Open.
|> 
|> 

Actually Faldo only tied for fifth after a real choke. He played the
first eight holes in 32 ( par 34 ) with sparkling shots but after a miss
at the nineth he played like a beginner and got back in 42 ( par 37 ).
From: GRUFF@u.washington.edu (Gary M Ruff)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: rules
Summary: dumb
Keywords: ball collision
Date: 2 Oct 92 20:13:17 GMT
Organization: Univ Computer Services, University of Washington

You should have just continued to play without saying anything and saved 
yourself two strokes, as it happened you ruined both your game and the other 
persons who's ball you hit..
From: davet@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (Dave Tutelman)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Re: Graphite Shafts
Date: 3 Oct 92 01:33:42 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Labs - Lincroft, NJ

I'm in complete agreement with Michael's latest posting.
Relevant exerpts follow:

In article <1992Oct2.214053.10178@netcom.com> mzimmers@netcom.com (Michael Zimmers) writes:
>In article <1992Oct2.121026.7319@cbnewsj.cb.att.com> davet@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (Dave Tutelman) writes:
>
>>In article <1992Sep30.151820.9264@netcom.com> mzimmers@netcom.com (Michael Zimmers) writes:
>
>>>There are several benefits from graphite shafts, most the result
>>>of the fact that a shaftmaker can fabricate more properties into
>>>a graphite (or boron) shaft than he can with steel. 
>
>>That probably ought to be the case.  But let's look at your examples
>>in practice.
>> ...
>>>- reduced torque
>
>>	Not from what I am told by the "experts" at GolfSmith or
>>	GolfWorks.  Steel shafts are typically in the 1-2 degree range.
>>	You've got to pay a lot to get graphite that low in torsion; your
>>	low-price graphite shafts aren't even close.  In the GolfWorks
>>	catalog, for instance, graphites with less than 3 degrees of torque
>>	start about $50 and go up from there; under 2 degrees is closer to
>>	(or over) $100.
>
>How about "wider range of torque"?  I flipped through my GW catalog and
>found torque ranges from 7.0 down to 1.6 (which is much lower than most
>of us will ever need).

Yup!

>This is also a good time to expand on your point that the lower torque
>ratings are found on only the most expensive shafts.  A lot of people
>treat the buzzword "graphite" as some kind of generic term that tells
>them all they need to know about the shaft.  Baloney!  There is a huge
>variation in behavior and quality.  One needs to do one's homework.

Exactly!

> ...
>I guess the real answer is that graphite gives the clubmaker a bit more
>choice in defining the club's behavior, but one needs to use that
>liberty wisely or you'll end up with an expensive set of clubs that 
>don't work for your game.
>
>What's interesting is that for years, golf pros were fond of saying
>that the shaft was 90% of the club.  I guess we're getting closer to
>it being 90% of the price as well...

Very good point!

Dave
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: fragante@unixg.ubc.ca (Gv Fragante)
Subject: Re: Caddie-ing
Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 16:29:18 GMT

In <1a836hINNk40@network.ucsd.edu> kim@guppy.uucp (Isaac Kim) writes:

>BTW, who is representing Canada in this tournament?

The names escape me at the moment, but the guy that comes to mind is Doug
Roxbough (sic?), the perennial B.C. Amateur Champion for the last few decades.
You probably know he won 11 times. Anyway, the story is that Doug only finished
5th or something like that during the qualifying events, and so was designated
as an alternate. However, later on one of the young guys who was on the main
line-up withdrew stating that he was joining Q school at the time of the
amateur championship. So Doug got this guy's slot.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: fragante@unixg.ubc.ca (Gv Fragante)
Subject: Re: Caddie-ing
Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Distribution: sqnt
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 18:18:35 GMT

In <1992Sep29.151716.25193@sequent.com> john@sequent.com (John Vander Borght) writes:

>There are a new kind of spikeless shoes that are really spikeless.  They
>are almost the same as the Rockports I wear every day.  They are made by
>FootJoy and have a basically smooth sole with some ridges that run across
>the shoes.  My club is encouraging us to buy them as they have an article
>from the USGA about how bad spikes are for the greens.

Yes, I have seen the truly spikeless shoes from Foot-Joy. I guess instead of
rubber spikes, the soles have a tread pattern like tires to grip the ground.
I question it's efficacy on the fairways though - if it will keep your foot
firmly planted on the ground.

The other spikeless shoe that caught my attention is the Etonic ST 6000. You
know that the Etonic Stabilizer series have these little pyramid shaped spikes
on the soles. Well, the sole of the ST 6000 is mostly made up of these pyramid
spikes. I guess they grip better than rubber spikes and doesn't leave as big
a spike mark than metal spikes. The nice thing about this shoes is that it uses
a velcro strap instead of a lacing system. This is really convenient when going
to the range and changing from your office shoes to your golf shoes. Best of
all, it's cheap. About C$40, less down there in the States fer'sure.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf

>   I took up golf recently (2 weeks ago to be exact). After driving
>   I guess must be close to 1,000 balls by now, with a 7-iron and
>   #1 wood, my both hands are acheing very bad.


I also just started playing golf this summer and had the same problem at the
beginning.  In my case I found it to originate from one of five causes (the
first two are key problems that also caused me to mis-hit a lot of balls):

1.  Gripping too hard (already mentioned in another response).  This caused
    general hand soreness.  I liked the bird-holding analogy in the other
    response - the grip has to be firm but not tense.

2.  Wrong grip.  I had my right hand too strong (BTW, I'm right handed), with
    the thumb/forefinger groove pointing outside my right shoulder and my
    thumb on top-right of the shaft.  It caused me to push with my
    thumb/forefinger combo and made my thumb sore.  I now make sure to
    keep my right thumb on the left side of the shaft, lightly against the tip
    of my left forefinger.

3.  Using an interlocking grip (right pinky and left forefinger interlocked).
    This caused significant soreness in both of those fingers, aggravated
    I think by gripping too hard.  I switched to an overlapping grip (which
    was just as comfortable and effective) and the soreness went away.

4.  Not wearing a glove.  My wedding band on my left hand started wearing
    a blister at the base of my finger.  Taking off the ring was an option,
    but I was afraid I'd loose it and I didn't want to have to explain to
    my wife why I was playing golf without my wedding band on.... 

5.  Hitting too many balls (already mentioned in another response).  I've
    found that as I've played more my hands have gotten stronger, but at the
    beginning I overdid it.

I mentioned my hand soreness to a frequent golfer and his comment was "If
you're doing it right your hands shouldn't be sore."  After struggling
through and correcting some of the fundamental problems in my grip and swing,
I've come to believe he was right.

Jim Southard
southard@fc.hp.com