HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: L621035@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Subject: Re: Use of Family car
Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space Company, Inc.
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 13:16:31 GMT

------------------------- Original Article -------------------------

All of this is probably a fairly valid argument for locating within
walking distance of a high school, or at least in an area with decent
transit service.
####################################################################
  We *did* locate within walking distance to a high school, but in CA, that
means nothing since they (the powers that be) are trying to create a totally
equal socio-economic mix in all of the high schools, & now my teen is required
to go to school 10 miles away, across a major freeway & 2 railroad tracks.  And
because of "budget cuts" if your child is in band, drama, sports, cheerleading,
or needs an extra class for university rqmts, you must provide transportation!
The "mass transit" system is as rural as the area we live in, unfortunately.
So when my teen gets her license this Friday, she'll get to use the truck for
getting to school with.  BTW Mom & dad both work, & don't get home in time for
chauffering, so that option is out. :-(
Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens
From: dedek@meaddata.com (Mike Dedek)
Subject: Re: QUIET?...advice with kids...
Organization: Mead Data Central, Dayton OH
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 12:57:01 GMT

In article <51920002@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com>, karlf@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com (Karl Fengler) writes:

<I'm dating woman, kids 11 & 14, for 3 months.  She's divorced for 7 yrs, I  
for 10. Kids are ok kids.>
|> 
|> My observasions here are this:
|>            1. Both kids lack respect for mom.
|>            2. The language they use towards mom, in my opinion, is
|>               unacceptable.
|>            3. I sence jealousy from the boy, for taking time away from mom.
|>            
|> What I would like advice with is, how can I get close without it being
|> as if I'm budding in? Also I just want any advice as to how kids behave,
|> so I can see where they're (the kids) are coming from.
|> 
|> There is more, but I'll laeve it at that.
|> 
|> Thanks in advance for any help, or insight...

<Karl Fangler>

My uncle had a similar situation.  His girlfriend (now wife) was widowed with
3 kids, age 19, 16, 12 (now age 23, 19, 15).  The oldest was a girl and didn't
seem to have problems.  The younger two, boys, exhibited similar behavior as
you describe.  In addition the older boy was getting into "trouble".  The
woman had difficulty dealing with this and often acted irrationally instead
of handling it correctly (that is, the boys hit her occasionally, she fought
with them on their level, etc.) It's
difficult to say what to do at this point, i.e. dating for 3 months.  But
when my uncle and the woman got serious,  they decided that my uncle would
take a more forceful role in their discipline.  This has made quite a bit of
difference, although there is still room for improvement (my uncle has to
boys as well).

The problem was that the mother could not or would not adequately discipline
because the father had done this before.  The boys needed a strong presence
to provide guidance and control in their lives.  My uncle provides this.  It
is difficult because the kids say "You're not my father."  The mother must
support my uncle in order for this to work.

Please note my uncle does not beat the kids or anything extreme.  But he 
provides strength which the children cannot manipulate around.

-Mike Dedek

Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens
Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens

              Please answer these 9 questions and return.

1.) Do you think equal rights for men and women is generally a good idea?
Yes                  [ ]
Sometimes            [ ]
No                   [ ]
Haven't heard enough [ ]
Other                [ ]

2.) Are you pro choice?
Yes                  [ ]
Sometimes            [ ]
No                   [ ]
Haven't heard enough [ ]
Other                [ ]

3.) Are you in favor of adoption?
Yes                  [ ]
Sometimes            [ ]
No                   [ ]
Haven't heard enough [ ]
Other                [ ]

4.) Do you think men should be allowed to legally terminate their parental
rights and responsibilities before fetal viability?
Yes                  [ ]
Sometimes            [ ]
No                   [ ]
Haven't heard enough [ ]
Other                [ ]

5.) What sex are you?
Male               [ ]
Female             [ ]

6.) How old are you?
Under 18           [ ]
19 to 65           [ ]
Over 65            [ ]

7.) What religion are you?
Protestant         [ ]
Catholic           [ ]
Jewish             [ ]
Other              [ ]

8.) What political party are you affiliated with?
Democratic         [ ]
Republican         [ ]
Other              [ ]

9.) How many years of education have you completed?
Grade School       [ ]
High School        [ ]
College            [ ]
More               [ ]
Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens
From: noraa@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (aaron.l.hoffmeyer)
Subject: Re: Youth Protection
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 10:46:06 GMT

In article <11OCT92.01201797@meena.cc.uregina.ca> isilver@meena.cc.uregina.ca writes:
>      As a generalization, though, I do feel that a kid who
>takes 27 aspirins is pretty troubled, but one must view each
>situation on its merits.

I don't know, "pretty troubled" just sounds a little too extreme to me.
The key here is "aspirin."  If the child really wanted to end it all,
aspirin is not indicative of that.  Sure, it could cause damage, but it
was more likely to get some needed attention.  The aspirin was a flag -
a distress signal, not a firm commitment to end it all.  As such, it
apparently worked.  This girl is getting that needed attention and her
problems are being uncovered and addressed.

What I am concerned about are social workers and psychologists who
basically believe we should all be in therapy all the time.  I mean,
what did humanity do before all you folks knew all the answers and how
much have you improved things?  Really, have crime, sexual abuse, child
abuse, delinquency, vandalism, suicide et. al. decreased since the
advent of modern, popular psychology?

What psychologists and social workers do, the family, church and
community used to do - and with a lot more concern and empathy for those
involved.  You see, for those people, it wasn't a pay-check - it was
life or death.

"So, how do you feel about that? - Oops, we were just getting
somewhere, but I see your time is up.  Leave a check with the
receptionist and schedule another appointment."

That's not to say there aren't good psychologists and social workers
that are meeting needs.  However, the approach seems to be off-kilter
to me.  Where are the "good" results?  Is there a better way?

Sometimes people have to put the past in the past and get on with their
lives - and that is something they must do for themselves - no
psychologist or social worker can do it for them.  If anything,
whipping dead horses can sometimes make things worse.

Aaron L. Hoffmeyer
TR@CBNEA.ATT.COM 
Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens
From: isilver@meena.cc.uregina.ca
Subject: RE: Youth Protection
Date: 11 OCT 92 01:20:17 GMT
Organization: University of Regina, Regina, Sask., Canada

      Oh, good grief! You must have read about the child pro-
tection officer in Halifax who apprehended 3 kids because they
had blue birth-marks on their buttocks. It sounds as though the
social service system is over-reactig.
(reacting)
      I can tell you that, as a school counsellor, I have seen
both extremes. In my last job, I had a student who was being abu-
sed by her parents, & was told by the child protection officer
that 'all 15 year old girls lie' and that I obviously had some
sexual interest in the kid, to keep on seeing her in counselling
sessions (my office had a BIG see-through window in the door, to
avoid any possible compromise). Another time, I was ordered by a
child protection officer to return a young person to her home
even though (a) she was over 16, & thus legally able to leave
home and (b) the police had clear evidence of abuse. After
consulting my school division's lawyer, & the lawyer for the R.C.
M.P., I facilitated the girl's leaving home, & was glad of it.
      In the case you described, there is no reason to believe
that your daughter was making a suicidal threat. Kids ALWAYS
speak of phone-calls, etc., in life-or-death terms (I live with
3 teens). I do believe, however, that were I a school counsellor
in your daughter's school, I'd be watching her pretty closely. It
seems as though asll normal precautions are being taken by you,
though, with counselling firmly in place. I'd tell the meddling
social worker to worry about the real cases, & leave your daugh-
ter strictly alone.
      As a generalization, though, I do feel that a kid who
takes 27 aspirins is pretty troubled, but one must view each
situation on its merits.
       Regards
                            Ian
From: shedevil@vix.com (Anne P. Mitchell JD)
Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens
Subject: Re: QUIET?...advice with kids...
Date: 7 Oct 1992 08:24:04 -0700
Organization: Fathers' Rights & Equality Exchange
NNTP-Posting-Host: gw.home.vix.com

In a recent missive dedek@meaddata.com (Mike Dedek) tells us:
*
*My uncle had a similar situation.  His girlfriend (now wife) was widowed with
*3 kids, age 19, 16, 12 (now age 23, 19, 15).  The oldest was a girl and didn't
*seem to have problems.  The younger two, boys, exhibited similar behavior as
*you describe.  In addition the older boy was getting into "trouble".  The
*woman had difficulty dealing with this and often acted irrationally instead
*of handling it correctly (that is, the boys hit her occasionally, she fought
*with them on their level, etc.) It's

*The problem was that the mother could not or would not adequately discipline
*because the father had done this before.  The boys needed a strong presence


I must put in a word of caution here, as this is a very dangerous and
slippery slope.  From my own experience [my beau entered our life when
my daughter was about 12] what one person [i.e. the parent] thinks is
"adequate" or "correct" may be very different than what the other
person [i.e. the new mate] thinks is "adequate" or "correct".  If the
new mate has little or no experience with adolescents, this can
exacerbate the situation.  For example, I allow my daughter *some*
latitude in how she may express her opinions, and a few other things.
My belief, and thus the way I parent, is that if you know what the
limits are of the behaviours you will tolerate, and those limits
include some elasticity for testing those limits [as teens *always*
will], then by anticipating and allowing for that, you can avoid some
of the *true* and oft-dangerous rebellion which some teens go through
when bound too tightly.  

Unfortunatley, when first coming into the relationship, my beau saw
what *I* had already thus determined to be *acceptable* behaviour as
"inappropriate" and "unacceptable" behaviour on the part of my
daughter.  The end result was my telling him to leave my parenting to
me, and to butt out.  Quite frankly, at that early stage of the
relationship it wasn't much his business..and I'd be surprised if at
after only 3 months of dating the original poster's uncle could
possibly be at a point where he should be having such input, and in my
opinion he should *never* make such judgements.

Step-parenting is a very difficult thing at best, and most counsellors
I have both read and talked to will caution a step-parent to *refrain*
from trying to take on a real parenting role for a *LONG* time [i.e
months to years].


-- 
   LOOKING FOR:  David Widdicombe, Hobson Woodward, Lorna Taylor & JJ Lancey
I am: Anne Mitchell, mom, & founder of the Fathers' Rights & Equality Exchange
Ask me about FREE!  FREE files available via anonymous ftp 128.45.1.1; dir /pub
			DE STELLA MARTIS VERE VENISTI
Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens
From: lpj@col.hp.com (Laura Johnson)
Subject: Re: Please Help
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 17:09:08 GMT
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division

Yeah, I think you need to tell us what this is about, please.

Also, what does "are you in favor of adoption" mean? Are there
people who think there should be no adoption? 


-- 
Laura Johnson
lpj@hpctdls.col.hp.com
Opinions expressed are my own, but may be licensed for a nominal fee.
Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens
From: solman@athena.mit.edu (Jason W Solinsky)
Subject: Re: Please Help
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 06:37:40 GMT

In article <25540001@hpwrce.mayfield.hp.com>, kingsley@hpwrce.mayfield.hp.com (Kingsley Morse) writes:
|>               Please answer these 9 questions and return.
|> 
|> 1.) Do you think equal rights for men and women is generally a good idea?
|> Yes                  [ ]
|> Sometimes            [ ]
|> No                   [ ]
|> Haven't heard enough [ ]
|> Other                [ ]

What are equal rights? If it means that the law should treat men and women
equally, yes, but that is already the case. If you mean that employers should
not be allowed to use the sex of employees as a factor in making decisions
then absolutely not. That would be like forcing employers to ignore the
education of employees or potential employees. Gender has a huge impact on the
productivity, reliability and most importantly employer's liability with respect
to the employee.

|> 2.) Are you pro choice?
|> Yes                  [ ]
|> Sometimes            [ ]
|> No                   [ ]
|> Haven't heard enough [ ]
|> Other                [ ]

Yes, but I am aware that Row v. Wade is unconstitutional and that states are
allowed to choose for themselves whether thay will allow abortions or not.
 
|> 3.) Are you in favor of adoption?
|> Yes                  [ ]
|> Sometimes            [ ]
|> No                   [ ]
|> Haven't heard enough [ ]
|> Other                [ ]

Yes

|> 4.) Do you think men should be allowed to legally terminate their parental
|> rights and responsibilities before fetal viability?
|> Yes                  [ ]
|> Sometimes            [ ]
|> No                   [ ]
|> Haven't heard enough [ ]
|> Other                [ ]

This depends. If this would absolve the father of all responsibility, then yes.
If this option were not available, and fathers could be held liable for child
support, then clearly mother's should require the father's permission before
being allowed to have an abortion.
 
|> 5.) What sex are you?
|> Male               [x]
|> Female             [ ]
|> 
|> 6.) How old are you?
|> Under 18           [ ]
|> 19 to 65           [ ]
|> Over 65            [ ]
None of the above

|> 
|> 7.) What religion are you?
|> Protestant         [ ]
|> Catholic           [ ]
|> Jewish             [x]
|> Other              [ ]
|> 
|> 8.) What political party are you affiliated with?
|> Democratic         [ ]
|> Republican         [x]
|> Other              [ ]
|> 
|> 9.) How many years of education have you completed?
|> Grade School       [ ]
|> High School        [ ]
|> College            [x]
|> More               [ ]
Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens
From: L621035@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Subject: Teens & Jobs
Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space Company, Inc.
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 23:01:35 GMT

  Hello.  I've seen several posts lately that made references to teens getting
jobs.  Doesn't that interfere with their school work?  & since most jobs are
evenings & weekends, doesn't that mean an end to their social life also?  This
is only posed to those who don't *need* their teens to work, in order to keep
a roof over your head.  I've been working full time since I was 14 YO, & I miss
not having a teen life.  No dances, parties, or hanging out.  I was always at
work.  I watch my own daughter & her friends, & I do envy some of the fun that
they seem to be having.
  I wouldn't want to have a "spoiled rotten" kid, & I do believe in rewarding
my teen for work around the house, which is the only work I want her to have
right now.  How else could she keep her grades up & get all those scholarships
she's going to need to get into the university that she wants to get into?  If
she were to work, there's no way she could make the amount of money available
in scholarships, in the number of hours that fast-food joints offer.  Also, she
would spend her money all on stuff, which we now buy her for just doing dishes.
& there still wouldn't be any college money.
  I do realize that there are situations where a teen does need to work.  I was
one of them.  But, I hope that if there are parents who have adequate income,
they don't "insist" that their teen work, just to purchase necessities.  I do
know of this kind of situation.  It saddens me that my daughter's best friend
has to spend all of her free time at work, while her mother sits on her a$$ at
home, just so my daughter's friend can have deoderant & toothpaste!
  These were my own opinions...yours may differ....
pf
Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens
From: rfelix@netcom.com (Robbie Felix)
Subject: Re: Use of Family car
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 21:42:32 GMT

In article <1bk2ujINNdop@agate.berkeley.edu> bh@anarres.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Brian Harvey) writes:
>ndallen@nyx.cs.du.edu (Nigel Allen) writes:
>>I am suprised that nobody has pointed out that teenagers are more likely
>>to be involved in an automobile accident, partly because they're
>>inexperienced drivers, and partly because they're teenagers and more
>>likely to do dumb teenage things.
>> [...]
>> I recognize that extra-curricular activities are important for kids, and
>>that they miss a lot if their only way home is a school bus that leaves a
>>few minutes after the end of classes. But there are fairly compelling
>>reasons not to allow teenagers the routine use of the family car.
>
>Indeed, this is a terrifying risk.  But there is an argument for accepting
>the risk:  They have to learn some time.  It's much like the two sides of
>the argument about alcohol.  Should we keep kids dry until they're 21 and
>then suddenly turn them loose?  Or should we give them limited experience
>with alcohol from a much earlier age, gradually preparing them for the time
>when they have to make decisions on their own?
>
I am on a different side of this issue. I have a 16 year old daughter.
I had a car that I chose not to trade in a few years ago, in order to
provide a car for her. I am a working woman and felt that it would be
great if my daughter could drive. I thought she would be able to take
on grocery shopping, running errands and helping out more ( she
already does a lot of the house and yard work).

I expected that she could get a part-time job to pay for the insurance
and gas.

She turned 16 in May. She has little interest in a driver's
licsense. She doesn't want the responsibility of a part time job OR of
driving. She uses public transportation or goes out with friends...

I feel that it is her decision and she has chosen wisely, for her. If
she cannot handle the costs and responsibility, she is better off
using public transportation. I look forward to the day she begins to
drive, but she will have to decide it is something she wants. I cannot
force my wishes on her.

I will celebrate the day she feels she is ready for the responsibility
of owning her own car. But I respect her ability to establish limits
for herself,too.

Funny how there are always plenty of sides to an issue!

rf



Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens
From: jonwllms@csugrad.cs.vt.edu (John Williams)
Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens
Subject: Re: Use of Family car
Date: 16 Oct 92 14:20:38 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Virginia Tech Computer Science Dept, Blacksburg, VA
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

ndallen@nyx.cs.du.edu (Nigel Allen) writes:
: 
: I am suprised that nobody has pointed out that teenagers are more likely
: to be involved in an automobile accident, partly because they're
: inexperienced drivers, and partly because they're teenagers and more
: likely to do dumb teenage things.
:  
: At least in rural and suburban areas, auto accidents are still the highest
: cause of death in the 15-to-19 age group. And lots of high school
: yearbooks have black-bordered photos of a few students who were killed in
: a car crash.
:   
: And it isn't just drunk drivers who get killed. Their passengers get
: killed too, and if an out-of-control car plows into someone els's car,
: then more people get injured or killed.
:  
: All of this is probably a fairly valid argument for locating within
: walking distance of a high school, or at least in an area with decent
: transit service.
:  
:  I recognize that extra-curricular activities are important for kids, and
: that they miss a lot if their only way home is a school bus that leaves a
: few minutes after the end of classes. But there are fairly compelling
: reasons not to allow teenagers the routine use of the family car.
:  
:  (I suppose I should refrain from discussing the role of the automobile in
: adolescent sexuality, except to mention that teens want cars for purposes
: other than transportation... the showing-off-the-car part worries me more
: than what they might do in a parked car, since at least when the car is
: parked they can't drive it fast.)

I am disturbed that you attribute this behavior to all teenagers. It seems to
me that this is a concern that should be considered on a person-by-person basis, and not blanketed to all teens.

"No, you can't have the car tonight. To many teens die from drunk driving."

But perhaps the child doesn't drink - doesn't care to drink. Won't drink. Do we keep the car from her because others do? As for inexperience, when would you
have one learn to drive? When they are home, under some semblance of control
from thier parents? Away at college, where peer preasure to do stupid things
is greater, and a parent's influence less? Out "in the real world," after college? 

-- 
*** | John Williams                   |                                   | ***
*** | jonwllms@csugrad.cs.vt.edu      |  "Now go away or I shall taunt    | ***
*** | Virginia Tech                   |   you a second time!"             | ***
*** | Computer Science Undergrad      |                                   | ***
Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens
From: ndallen@nyx.cs.du.edu (Nigel Allen)
Subject: Re: Use of Family car
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 09:45:57 GMT


I am suprised that nobody has pointed out that teenagers are more likely
to be involved in an automobile accident, partly because they're
inexperienced drivers, and partly because they're teenagers and more
likely to do dumb teenage things.
 
At least in rural and suburban areas, auto accidents are still the highest
cause of death in the 15-to-19 age group. And lots of high school
yearbooks have black-bordered photos of a few students who were killed in
a car crash.
  
And it isn't just drunk drivers who get killed. Their passengers get
killed too, and if an out-of-control car plows into someone els's car,
then more people get injured or killed.
 
All of this is probably a fairly valid argument for locating within
walking distance of a high school, or at least in an area with decent
transit service.
 
 I recognize that extra-curricular activities are important for kids, and
that they miss a lot if their only way home is a school bus that leaves a
few minutes after the end of classes. But there are fairly compelling
reasons not to allow teenagers the routine use of the family car.
 
 (I suppose I should refrain from discussing the role of the automobile in
adolescent sexuality, except to mention that teens want cars for purposes
other than transportation... the showing-off-the-car part worries me more
than what they might do in a parked car, since at least when the car is
parked they can't drive it fast.)

Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens