From: makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Subject: Re: Lehi and nazies
Reply-To: makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe AZ
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 01:16:15 GMT

In article <1992Sep2.045114.10284@cs.anu.edu.au> bdm@cs.anu.edu.au writes:

# In article 5358@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP, rdtst+@pitt.edu (Richard D Thorne) writes:

# >NO LINK OF SHAMIR TO DOCUMENT NOR OF LEHI TO FASCISM
# >	It was noted that at the time this document was sent 
# >Shamir was not leading LEHI and since authorship can not be 
# >determined by its contents it must be that anyone attributing it 
# >to Shamir  is also engaging in speculation  
 
# At the time the letter was written, Stern was firmly in charge so
# it is reasonable to posit that he wrote it.  There is no direct
# evidence concerning Shamir's involvement except that he was a
# senior member of Lehi at the time.  
 
	Actually, it is much more likely that he instructed someone else
to write it (this is generally the way things are done in any
organization - I have no specific knowledge here), and he reviewed
it.

# Incidentally, the letter was not the only attempt made to contact 
# the Nazis.  Nathan Yellin-Mor (later co-leader with Shamir after
# Stern's death) tried to reach them in person in July 1941, but was
# arrested en-route by the British.

	Not surorising.  However, unless these attempts were the only
thing Lehi was doing (which it obviously was not) this is not
surprising nor does it shed any light on the matter.  There were
probably other attempts also.

# >                                              There exists the 
# >possibility that whoever contacted the Germans meant exactly 
# >what the cable says, but it is also possible that it was worded in 
# >such a way as to best convince the Germans to provide arms.  
# >I'm not sure what makes one possibility more likely than 
# >another.  Lehi's ideology can best be described as anti-British 
# >therefore the proposition that what was written was motivated 
# >more by a hatred of the British than a love of the Germans 
# >seems reasonable.  
 
# Lehi had no love of the Germans.  They believed that the Nazis would
# win the war and that the Nazi flavour of anti-semitism was going to
# be the trend for a long time.  More interestingly, they believed
# that anti-semitism could not be fought because it was JUSTIFIED; 
# it was reasonable for non-Jews to hate Jews because after all the
# Jews were the Chosen People and therefore superior.

	I have a lot of problems with this, and Brendan I believe you owe
lots of peaople an apology for that insulting remark.  I consider the
Jews (me included) to be the chosen people.  I do NOT consider myself
(or any other Jew) superior.  Even if I did, that might make
anti-semitism a predictable response (not that it would make it, just
that it might), but not a JUSTIFIED response.

	Just to let you know, it was this one paragraph that caused me to
respond.  The use of 'JUSTIFIED' is disgusting to say the least.

# >                    Do you have any evidence that LEHI 
# >promoted fascism as their model? (e.g. essays or party 
# >platforms) 
 
# Almost every historian who ever wrote about Lehi called their politics
# fascist.  However, it was much more fascism of the Italian flavour
# than of the German flavour.  The extensive contacts between the
# Revisionists (both Lehi and Irgun) and the Italian fascists are very
# well documented.
 
	One needs to remember that the main thing that seperated the three
major organizations (there were more, but I am talking in terms of
Hagana, Lehi, and Etzel) was in their attitudes towards the British.
There were other differences, including politics, but the major
difference was in how to respond to the British.

# >	Jacques Derogy and Hesi Carmel write of Yair (Stern):
# >"...Following the policy established by the Hagannah at the beginning 
# >of the war, the Irgun had made the decision to subordinate 
# >everything to the struggle against Hitler.  Stern had disagreed with 
# >this truce, which allied the revisionist nationalists with the 
# >international socialist members of the Hagannah and the Jewish 
# >Agency.  He maintained that the Jews must not abandon their 
# >activities against British imperialism, which was occupying Palestine 
# >and forbidding entrance to the persecuted Jews of Europe. Stern 
# >formed a small group of "ultras," attracting many followers of high 
# >quality and character, which came to be known as the Lochamei 

# high quality and character!  a very strange way to describe a band
# of fanatics, desparados and criminals.

	Actually, what you say should be reversed.  Fanatics, desparados
and criminals!  A very strange way to describe people of high quality
and character.
 
# >                                              Amos Kenan (Peace 
# >Now), and Geula Cohen (T'Chiya) span the spectrum of Israeli politics 
# >and that's good evidence that there was no other ideology than that 
# >of convincing the British to leave.  
 
# People change over time.  Your argument is invalid.

	I believe that one of the earliest members of Israel's communist
party also came from Lehi.  Niether the argument, nor your refutation,
can hold, for many reasons.
--

David Makowsky
makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast