HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jcollier@ariel.its.unimelb.EDU.AU (John Donald Collier)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: Proof: God wrote the Bible
Date: 4 Oct 92 06:37:33 GMT
Organization: University of Melbourne, Australia

Then God was not overly concerned about truth, since there
are many things the Bible says that are easily disprovable.
I can't say how many things that are not so easily disprovable
are wrong. Perhaps God just wanted to test the faith of
His followers in the face of incontrovertable evidence.
That is certainly in keeping with the rather jealous,
tempermental, paranoid, and fickle control freak portrayed
in the Bible. Reminds me of a boss I once had who had risen
to his level of incompetence.

On the other hand, perhaps the Bible was written by fallible
humans whose conception of the truth came through vague
glimmerings on good days.


Some errors in the Bible about easily observable facts:

Genesis 1:7, Psalm 148:4  Above the sky is sea.
Genesis 7:11, Psalm 24:1-2, 136:6  Flat earth founded on underlying sea.
Leviticus 11:5,6    Badgers and hares chew the cud.
Leviticus 11:13-19  Bats are included among the birds.
Leviticus 11:20-23  Winged insects have 4 legs.
Psalm 93:1, 104:5   Earth is stationary.
Matthew 13:31-32    Mustard seeds are smallest.
Evil spirits and demons cause disease -- found in Matthew, Mark, Luke.
1 Kings 7:23        Pi = 3.

Some straightforward contradictions:

Compare Genesis 33:18-20 with Acts 7:15-16.
Compare II Samuel 10:18 with I Chronicles 19:18.
Compare Genesis 7:12, 8:7 -- rain for 40 days
     with Genesis 8:3, 7:24 -- rain for 150 days
Compare Exodus 12:8-9 with Deuteronomy 16:7 and II Chronicles 35:13.

Some contradictions in the creation stories:

Genesis 1:24-27     God creates the animals, and then male and female          
          humans.
Genesis 2:7,19-23   God creates man first, and then animals, and               
     finally woman. 
Also compare the Genesis stories with other creation stories in Proverbs 8:22-31,
Job 26:7-12 and Psalms 79:13-17.

A contradiction in the Genealogies (more are rumoured):

Compare I Chronicles 15-17 with Matthew 1:11.

Jesus and Isaiah:

Compare John 1:18 with Isaiah 6:1-9. 

Contradictions between the Gospels:

Compare the cause of Judas death in Acts and Matthew.

Compare the time of the Crucifixion relative to Passover in John with Matthew,
Luke and Mark.

Compare Luke with Matthew and Mark on whether any of the apostles witnessed
the Crucifixion.

Doctrinal peculiarities:

1 Corinthians 7:8-9   Paul says not to get married.
  
-- 
John Collier 			Email: jcollier@ariel.ucs.unimelb.edu.au
HPS -- U. of Melbourne		  	Fax:   61+3 344 7959
Parkville, Victoria, AUSTRALIA 3052
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology
From: kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry)
Subject: Re: Re^2: UFOs and Newage
Organization: Two rooms filled with typography, in downtown Boston
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 04:19:47 GMT

In article <1992Sep25.175939.15686@tellab5.tellabs.com> jcj@tellabs.com (JCJ) writes:
>Exactly!  Perhaps John does have contact with the aliens - I have him in 
>my KILL file and somehow he still keeps getting through!  Sessile
>doorway a la dumptruck?  Kibo!

What a shoddy misquote.  What my good friend L. Ron really said was
"Sessile exploding headroom avec Damfwalze mit umlaut," shortly before
he was found dead with an E-meter's electrodes glued to his most
sensitive nodal points.

							-- K.



Xref: sparky talk.religion.newage:4469 alt.alien.visitors:6973 sci.skeptic:17013
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 92 07:21:08 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

Subject: The History of the Earth (4.5 Billion Years).
  I'm now going to be putting down somethings from a book called Letters To 
You From Balaron.  Now Balaron is sort of a space type individual. He-She is 
the intelligence that permiates the whole universe. He has existed a long 
time and  claims to have observed the Earth in its very beginning.  Whether 
or not a  person believes in him or not the information seems to be of good 
origin, and it appears to make a lot of sense to me. 
  First of all let me state that the Earth is 4.5 billion years old, also Mars 
is the same age.  Their have been civilizations on Earth for the last 3 
billion years, with people coming, going and staying here.
  When you think of life on other planets it doesn't always have to be exactly 
like we are here. Sometimes it is of a lighter consistency, finer 
consistency and a higher frequency. Balaron made the following statement, 
"Remember my dear ones of Earth, that though other worlds may seem hostile 
to you, they are to the beings inhabiting them, as beautiful, loving and 
refreshing as is your world to you"
  After the Earth was formed the first space people that came to it, observed 
the Earth and they brought along some good type bacteria, benign bacteria 
and minute plant life. In other words, small plants like mosses and lichens. 
 This produced a sort of a loam soil out of the rocks and water that was on 
Earth. 
  For a long time the S. P. didn't come back but they sent their first colony 
here finally and they set a set up a colony here. They brought other types 
of animal life with them at that time, and these people were in 
communication with their fellow people on other planets but their friends 
who were on other planets got in inner glactic wars and they didn't come in 
contact with people on Earth for quite a long time and the Earth people 
became cave dwellers and eventually ceased to exist.
  Now the second colony that came here were more technically advanced than the 
first colony. They seemed for a time to do well. They disappeared in a huge 
seismic convulsion, which changed the face of the Earth.
End Part 1.
John Winston.
From: sma@waikato.ac.nz (Stephen Anderson)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: Proof: God wrote the Bible
Date: 7 Oct 92 14:46:18 +1300
Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand

In article <1992Oct6.230852.22018@unislc.uucp>, erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp) writes:
> 
> : Jesus said "I am the way, the truth and the life.  No-one comes to the father
> : but by me.
> 
> Hmmm...he most certainly did NOT say that!  Jesus didn't speak English,
> remember?  The most probable translation of this passage might be "My way is the
> only way to the Father".  Try that one on for size, since it more closely fits
> the teachings of Christ.  He never solicited worship, tribute, or any of that
> stuff you would expect God-in-the-flesh to solicit.
>
If you really want to argue semantics, the Christ did say that, but he would
not have used those words, rather speaking in aramaic.
> 
> : Also, what evidence have you that this messiah that the Jews thought was coming 
> : was the one fortold?  Or did the Jews just think a saviour would save them from
> : what they wanted to be saved from (the Romans).
> 
> The Jews were promised a Messiah, a savior, in (among other places) Daniel and
> Isiah.  Isaiah (shit, I never can get that spelling right) gets quite specific
> in appearance, too...
Yes, but none of the references refer to a Messiah in the way that you
described - a warrior that would rise up against the Roman occupiors.  Some
Jews merely wanted that because they were oppressed.

Stephen..
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
From: gorski@pslu1.psl.wisc.edu (Tom Gorski)
Subject: Re: Heaven (was Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day)
Organization: Physical Sciences Lab, University of Wisconsin
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 17:41:34 GMT

In article <Sep.30.12.21.57.1992.11950@ruhets.rutgers.edu> farris@ruhets.rutgers.edu (Lorenzo Farris) writes:
>In article <1992Sep30.132125.8199@pslu1.psl.wisc.edu>, gorski@pslu1.psl.wisc.edu (Tom Gorski) writes:
>> In article <92273.142247RAJA@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> <RAJA@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> writes:
>> >Ah! the "truth" is , that you don't get to stay in Heaven permanently. You
>> >have to come back to this or another planet to get  a chance to fulfil your
>> >desires. You can stay permanently when you don't have any material desires
>> >left. But for a religious person "Heaven" is the presence of God and that
>> >has nothing to do with nice weather etc.etc.

>> Man, I'll have to bite on this one.
>> A cute story to be sure, but how do you know this?  

>> >rajagopalan

>> --Tom G.

>The truth is, you don't even have to die to get there.  It's simply a 
>different state of awareness.  You can see evidence of it by observing
>a being who is in that state of awareness.  You can "know" it by
                                                     ^^^^^^
                                    what's with the quotes here?

>engaging in the practices which eventually put you in that state of
>awareness. Heaven is right here, all around you, and within you, if
>you just learn how to see it.

Your heaven sounds like different animal than the original poster.
Wish you fellas would get together on your terms.  Yours sounds like
a personal thing, whereas the other heaven sounds like a big country
club run by God.

In either case, you're both offering hearsay, something you've read or
heard someplace, and only the unusally soft-headed would believe either
of you word-for-word.  Don't you agree?  

>"Ask me a riddle, and I [should] reply,       Lorenzo Farris
>`Cottleston, Cottleston, Cottleston Pie'"     farris@ruhets.rutgers.edu
>                -Winnie the Pooh          

--Tom G.
From: farris@ruhets.rutgers.edu (Lorenzo Farris)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: Proof: God wrote the Bible
Date: 3 Oct 92 12:59:49 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

In article <1992Oct2.191132.13237@tc.fluke.COM>, nordenga@tc.fluke.COM (Arnold E. Nordeng) writes:
> If you want to claim the bible is untrustworthy in its facts or details, 
> then how can you as a "christian" support the resurrection as a fact or 
> detail, the cornerstone of our faith?  The common theme of all non-Christian
> religions is to first doubt the bible as the inerrant word of God--something
> that Jesus Christ did not do.
> Just look at JW's, Mormons, Islam, Newage, Christian Science, Moonies & the
> Unitarians, Bahai's etc etc etc......  
> 
> 
> -Arnold Nordeng
>  nordenga@tc.fluke.COM

Now wait just a over-zealous minute. Number one, many "non-Christian"
religions did just fine and dandy for millenia without having a
Christian bible to refute.  For example: Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism,
etc. Number two, the cornerstone of my faith in Jesus is His message
of Love, nothing else.  If you bring that one principle into your life
fully, I think you will find the whole issue of the literal truth of
the bible rather moot.

I now return you to you regularly scheduled debate.....
-- 

"Ask me a riddle, and I [should] reply,       Lorenzo Farris
`Cottleston, Cottleston, Cottleston Pie'"     farris@ruhets.rutgers.edu
                -Winnie the Pooh          
[bracketed addition mine]                 
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
From: erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp)
Subject: Re: Heaven (was Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 20:11:49 GMT

Tom Gorski (gorski@pslu1.psl.wisc.edu) wrote:

: Your heaven sounds like different animal than the original poster.
: Wish you fellas would get together on your terms.  Yours sounds like
: a personal thing, whereas the other heaven sounds like a big country
: club run by God.

You just happen to be correct, Tom.  Heaven *is* a big country club run by
God.  How do I know?  Because He just hired me as manager! :)
-- 
Ed Carp, N7EKG     erc@apple.com                801/538-0177
"This is the final task I will ever give you, and it  goes  on  forever.   Act
happy, feel happy, be happy, without a reason in the world. Then you can love,
and do what you will."           -- Dan Millman, "Way Of The Peaceful Warrior"
From: dnibby@asylum.UUCP (Dana Nibby)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
Subject: WTBWAW
Date: 3 Oct 92 16:12:59 GMT
Organization: Epilogue Technology Corp.

I have about 10 copies of the book "Would the Buddha Wear
a Walkman?" by Hooper and Teresi for sale. This book is a good
introduction to mind machines, brain toys, and consciousness
alteration in general. I'm selling it for $11 in the U.S.
(list price is $16.95) If you'd like a copy, send e-mail to

    d_nibby@unhh.unh.edu
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology
Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage
Date: Sat,  3 Oct 92 07:21:25 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1992Sep23.164901.27569@cbnewsc.cb.att.com><1992Sep25.175939.15686@tellab5
 .tellabs.com> <Bv6411.KIv@world.std.com><66981@cup.portal.com>
  <RSHOLMES.92Oct1221127@rodan.syr.EDU>

Dear Everbody: Thanks for your patience (Mike) I'm taking off for 
Mt. Shasta now and should be back on tuesday or wednesday.
John Winston
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
From: adam@brewich.hou.tx.us (Adam zaidi)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
Subject: Sabaeans
Date: Sat, 03 Oct 92 17:27:47 CDT
Organization: The Brewer's Witch BBS, +1 713 272 7350, Brewich.Hou.TX.US

Actually the Sabaeans did worship the heavenly bodies, especially the 
Sun.  They came from Yemen (Kingdom of Sheba).  Their Queen Bilqis (Queen 
of Sheba) later converted to King Solomon's religion after visiting him 
in Jerusalem.  When Bilqis converted, so did most of her nation's people. 
 Later on the Kingdom of Sheba expanded to Ethiopia and Oman.  That was 
how the Sabaean religious principles were acquired by other peoples, 
including Eqyptians, Greeks, Turks, Romans, Persians, etc.  Even today in 
modern day Yemen and Oman there are afew nomads who practice the Sabaean 
religion.  How do I know this?  My source is my father, who is 
Omani/Yemeni.  The Sabaeans are also mentioned in the Qur'an.
                Blessed Be!
                 --Adam--

------------------
adam@brewich.hou.tx.us (Adam zaidi)
Origin: The Brewer's Witch BBS -- Houston, TX -- +1 713 272 7350
     "Silence is the voice of complicity" - Vote Early, Vote Often!
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 92 07:41:55 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1992Sep26.192053.15449@cbnewsc.cb.att.com>

Dear Baby Watchers: Some well thought questions have been asked about
our Baby Talkers. Sara has now aged quite a bit from her origninal talking
at 20 minutes old. She is considered to be a one year old now. It is 
my opinion that more and more such cases will show up in the future. 
Everybody lives before they are born here at this time. In the past it
has been the rule to erase a person's memory before they are born. Now
this is not being done in some cases. Sara continues to talk but speaks
mostly about the future. They say that we suppose she is beginning to
forget her life before birth. She lives in San Marco, Italy.
John Winston.
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
From: rjp1@cbnewsc.cb.att.com (be here now)
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 19:20:53 GMT

)Subject: Baby Talk.
)A few years back I used to have a teacher and Guru called Merele.  He's now
)dead.  A lot of things he would tell me were hard to believe. When he would
)try to tell me something that was very hard for me to believe he would cry.

Pass on oxide rats go unless yogi.  
Drain oxide nutation onto the bacon
Ears lifting in exercise
Verily edificed hanging in Mexico.

)This last week I saw where Sara Inserra has started talking at 20 minutes
)old. The first thing that she said was to tell the nurse to take her to her
)mother because she wanted to give her a message from her grandmother (Nana).
)
)She says she was chosen as a volunteer to bring God's message of hope to
)the world. God loves us all and we will all be in Heaven with Him sooner 
)or later.
)So what do you think folks would a 20 minute old kid lie?
)John Winston.
 
Nevertheless overlord, the Hymn articulates tragedy scenes and
fondles inert babes!  Likewise in sterile tubular excressence notice..
Cautiously or yiddish or temporary excavator intrudes somewhere
next establishing a ratty bisexual yogurt...


--
Bob Pietkivitch     | "Moon, my long lost friend, is smiling from above."
rjp1@ihspa.att.com  |  -- Genesis, Stagnation 1970
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 18:08:55 EDT
From: <WJS112@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: Becoming aware
Distribution: world

indeed, i'll agree on the sex bit...sex can be very spiritual.  Carefull now,
lets not be ruled by it...
                      gersha,
                             fuzzy.
Xref: sparky talk.religion.newage:4527 alt.alien.visitors:7155 sci.skeptic:17383
From: eradm@brahms.Berkeley.EDU (Erik Radmall)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Heaven (was Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day)
Keywords: Heaven
Date: 2 Oct 92 17:32:12 GMT
Reply-To: eradm@brahms.Berkeley.EDU (Erik Radmall)
Organization: Xerox

In article <1992Oct2.141636.12979@ntb.ch>, milsom@ntb.ch (Paul Milsom) writes:
|> 
|> Free Radical (RA) asks about reincarnation:
|> 
|> 		> Paul - which people acknowledge this, and do they have any 		
|> 		> scientific basis for doing so?
|> 
|> The people I was referring to are the ones who are what I would have to call 
|> "spiritual" in the western world. There are others, non-spiritual, here too. 
|> There are also apparently several hundreds of millions of believers in 
|> reincarnation in places like India, Tibet, Japan and other countries (Hindus, 
|> Buddhists, Jains). Some rogue Christian churches also still accept this 
|> doctrine, and indeed it was accepted Christian belief until about the 5th 
|> Century, when it was edited from the bible after the decision of a Council. 

	What evidence do you have that reincarnation was accepted before the
	5th century by Christians? Who edited it? What council decided it?
	What did the Bible originally say?
	(no flames please - these are simply questions for references, not an attack).
|> 
	[much deleted]
|> 					Cheers,   Paul.
|> 
|> milsom@ntb.ch
|> Neu-Technikum Buchs Switzerland

-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
J. Erik Radmall                    | Xerox Corp.
eradm@brahms.wbst845e.xerox.com    | Knowledge-Based Systems Competency Center
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: button@jug.Eng.Sun.COM (Russ Button)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
Subject: WANTED: Tai Chi instruction
Date: 5 Oct 1992 22:36:47 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Distribution: ba
Reply-To: button@jug.Eng.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: jug


Can someone recommend a Tai Chi instructor in the East Bay?
Preferably between Hayward and Fremont.

Russ Button
button@jug.eng.sun.com
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
From: ted@eslvcr.wimsey.bc.ca (Ted Powell)
Subject: Kirlian Photography (was: July 4, 1992 - Global etc)
Followup-To: talk.religion.newage,sci.skeptic
Summary: A measure of electrical conductivity patterns.
Organization: Entropy Limited, Vancouver Canada
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 92 20:19:56 GMT

In article <1992Oct1.131518.28896@mailer.cc.fsu.edu> waddell@firnvx.firn.edu writes:
>In article <1992Sep30.192757.17590@random.ccs.northeastern.edu>, 
>      rogue@ccs.northeastern.edu (Free Radical) writes...
>> 
>>I've read of some controlled experiments regarding auras, and they
>>always seem to indicate that auras are a figment of the perceiver's
>>imagination, and have no objective reality.  Do you have any evidence
>>to the contrary?
>
>I believe that Kirlean(sp?) photography takes pictures of auras.

The evidence suggests that Kirlian photography gives pictures of electrical
discharges, whose shapes depend on patterns of electrical conductivity in
the objects being used.
    For example, if you place a leaf in the apparatus and make a picture,
you'll get something in the shape of a leaf with a fringe around the
outside (since the discharge from the electric field being applied extends
somewhat beyond the boundaries of the leaf). If you now tear off part of
the leaf, and leave the remainder in its same position in the apparatus,
you will now get a picture in which the "missing" part of the leaf still
appears, albeit more faintly than before, _provided_ that you don't
thoroughly clean the apparatus in between, removing residue left by the
whole leaf at the end of the first run. Some people attach a mystical
significance to this.

Reference:
    There's a chapter on Kirlian photography in "Science and the
Paranormal", Barry Singer and George Abell, eds. The book's at home, so if
anyone needs to know things like ISBN, publisher, etc, please email me.

Anyone following this thread from alt.alien.visitors, please note that I've
omitted that group from the Followup-To: -- I don't think Mr Kirlian was an
alien.  :-)

-- 
ted@eslvcr.wimsey.bc.ca   {ubc-cs,uunet}!van-bc!eslvcr!ted   (Ted Powell)
Xref: sparky talk.religion.newage:4495 alt.alien.visitors:7099 alt.religion.kibology:4056
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology
Subject: Re: Re^2: UFOs and Newage
Date: Thu,  1 Oct 92 06:49:23 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1992Sep23.164901.27569@cbnewsc.cb.att.com>
  <1992Sep25.175939.15686@tellab5.tellabs.com> <Bv6411.KIv@world.std.com>

Dear Folks: Some people may like to call this the end times and that
is OK, because it is the end of the age. The bible says that Jesus
said I'll be with you to the end of the world, and it did say this
in the King James version of the bible but in the original text it
says, I will be with you to the end of the age. We're just getting 
started folks, hold on to your hats. It may get a little bumpy before
we get to smooth sailing.
John Winston.
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
From: gorski@pslu1.psl.wisc.edu (Tom Gorski)
Subject: Heaven (was Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day)
Organization: Physical Sciences Lab, University of Wisconsin
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 13:21:25 GMT

In article <92273.142247RAJA@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> <RAJA@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> writes:
>Ah! the "truth" is , that you don't get to stay in Heaven permanently. You
>have to come back to this or another planet to get  a chance to fulfil your
>desires. You can stay permanently when you don't have any material desires
>left. But for a religious person "Heaven" is the presence of God and that
>has nothing to do with nice weather etc.etc.

Man, I'll have to bite on this one.

A cute story to be sure, but how do you know this?  

>rajagopalan

--Tom G.
Xref: sparky talk.religion.newage:4490 alt.alien.visitors:7083 sci.skeptic:17237