HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cyc@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Yi-Chieh Chang)
Subject: Re: Election in Taiwan
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 00:45:58 GMT

>>Every country formed in this world cannot avoid bloodshed unfortunately.
>>Even given the birth to a baby can't avoid bloodshed, so why are you so 
>>afraid of bloodshed ? If so, I don't think you can even have a child.
>>Besides, who can guarantee that there won't be bloodshed if KMT united with
>>CCP ? In fact, there may be lot more bloodshed if CCP come to Taiwan.
>>
>
>It is the real intention revealed by a TI terrorist. They want bloodshed 
>no matter what would result. They stay in the US and gladly see the blood
>shed from somebody else's body as long as the blood did not drain from their
>own body. See the grim face behind the mask. Why does this gentleman not let
>his daughter's blood shed from her body involuntarily by other people?
>

Then the real threat from CCP and those stupid pro-uni KMTers is that they 
tried every means to threaten Taiwanese not to be independent, while they 
never say what will happen if CCP comes.  (Even more blood.)
Taiwanese will choose a right thing to do no matter how hard it could be
and will never do something bad no matter how easy it can be done.
Surrender only needs to bend your knees, but to fight takes all your
strength. 
Taiwanese want to build their own great country no matter how hard
it would be, while many others just want to surrender and being ruled by
other people, yet they are yelling to those brave people 'surrender quickly 
and you will become a slave easily and never need to worry about your
future because your master will do that for you'.
I want TI, because I'm a brave man and have confidence that I can build a
new great country out of my own hand. Taiwanese not only want to be
independent, we also want to beat Chinese in every way, that's why we want
to be independent, because we want to be better not worse.

Yi-Chieh
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: An-Ly Yao <anlyyao@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Date: 02 Jan 93 04:13 PST
Subject: Re: Excellence, Made in Taiwan
Nf-ID: #R:8Ka=Jq+@engin.umich.edu:-586746245:cdp:1474900026:000:222
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!anlyyao    Jan  2 04:13:00 1993


Excellence mady in Taiwan, why not? My company (Siemens, Germany) does OEM
business with Taiwan, and in these days we have good experience with manufac-
turers there.

a happy new year!
Goetz Kluge
1993/01/02
Seoul, KOREA

Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: joy@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Chien-Chung Chen)
Subject: Re: more than 50% support TI
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 09:08:25 GMT

In article <C044A2.8z8@news.iastate.edu> wwang@iastate.edu (Wen-Ping Wang) writes:
>In article <1992Dec30.161649.22832@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> li@sicvax.enet.dec.com (Tom Li) writes:
>> ........
>>Many people blame "One-China" policy has caused our isolation from the 
>>international community. I think "One-China" policy is not a real cause but CCP 
>>is. At present Taiwan has difficulty to be recognized as "Republic of 
>>ANYTHING". The fault is not the name of China, Taiwan, or Taipei but 
>>"Republic". Sometimes I naively wonder whether we can be more flexible to use 
>>just "Taiwan" to enter the international organizations - a geographical name 
>>which is less controversial and widely-recognized.
>>
>
>Imagine 20 years ago when we were kicked out of the UN, if we agreed
>to change our country name to Taiwan, we might have a seat in UN now
>and there will have 'One China and One Taiwan'. Imagine 10 years ago when
>China still isolated itself from the rest of the world, if we started
>to use the name Taiwan and there definitely will have 'One China and
>One Taiwan'. If above were true, then we don't have to argue here
>anymore. :-) 

Agree.

>So is 'One China' policy to blame?

You may blame the old day's "One China policy". But today's "One China
policy" is for today Taiwan's survival. I mean Tom Li is arguing that
the declaration of "One China and One Taiwan" now will not do Taiwan
any good.

Time has and situation have changed. Yesterday I missed the last day's
opportunity to buy an on-sale Sharp TV. Can't I consider buying other
brands such as RCA today?

-- Chien-Chung Chen
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: joy@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Chien-Chung Chen)
Subject: Re: More 50% support TI
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 18:21:32 GMT

In article <1993Jan1.030520.1@oread.cc.ukans.edu> shaohui@oread.cc.ukans.edu writes:
>[CCP-supporting argument deleted]
>Sorry I can not response to anyone concerning on my opions. I have much much
>move important things to do than talking. ...

Hey, it's not fair to throw in a bomb and say you don't play anymore.
Well, who has time to argue with the air? I've got better thing to do
too (watching bowl games).

-- Chien-Chung Chen
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: li@sicvax.enet.dec.com (Tom Li)
Subject: Re: More 50% support TI
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 19:21:52 GMT


In article <1993Jan1.030520.1@oread.cc.ukans.edu>, shaohui@oread.cc.ukans.edu writes...
>I first apologize to post on sct, because I am a mainlander and someone here
>might think I want to issue another vobal war between us. No, my intetion is to
>tell some stories and hope that can solve some misunderstanding between us.

You dont have to apologize. SCT is an open forum and everyone can post his/her
opinion. But if you write something (too) biased then be expect protest even 
sometimes nasty responses :)

>a better life and a better political system. when I watched the president
>debate this year. And there is a electronic poll is hold on the TV, I can not
>help myself thinking  that it is like a video game. Everyone engaged in it and
>the designer makes money. This summer, I travelled in Colorado, one America who
>has been to many Asian countries praised Singapore greatly, but bet your pandom,
>does not appreciate the "political progress" in Taiwan because people are earge
>to exchange fight in streets and congress, the transpotation is massed up. On
>the other hand, Japan has never achieve any big demoncratic progress after the
>withdrawl of occupation army. Instead they concentrated on the improvement of
>their companies and techniques. They are more respectable than many
>democratic countries in this whord.  Chinese people has an tentency to be 
>involved in political game if they have chance, but they never agree with each
>other until one is the conquer. If Taiwainese are still eager to argure with
>each other and enjoy the self-complimency of been a "democratic COUNTRY". It
>will lose its chance to advance to a high tech. products producer.

Every country has different way of "democracy". If you think political 
convention in US like circus then you should watch C-SPAN for debates in
British parliament. But there is one thing in common, people (or delegates)
can express their opinion freely. When you see Legislators in Taiwan's
Legislative Yuan fighting each other that is because KMT was overwhelmly 
controlling unfairly. I never worry that too much. I think it is better 
than just acted as a rubber stamp (certainly it seems very peacefully).

>     ****** Political arguments are drugs. The more you use it, the more you 
>lose in it.**********

Not necessary if with a positive attitude. Sometimes I sense the stubborness 
of Chinese people, why things have to be 0 or 1 can they be something between
sometimes?

Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: nhuang@cs.ulowell.edu (Bill Huang)
Subject: Re: How I post articles in Chinese
Organization: ZEN Self Constraint Institute of Technology
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 17:01:39 GMT

In article <1992Dec20.110835.3569@csie.nctu.edu.tw> chshan@csie.nctu.edu.tw (S. Shann()) writes:
>    I've posted an article to suggest us should post articles in
>Chinese, and I received many messages to ask me how to post in 
>Chinese. That's the way I do:
>
>    1. Turn on the power switch of my PC
>    2. Load ETen chinese system
             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
i believe many people do not know what this system is, the most important
question is : where can i get it? (commercial or shareware?)

>    3. Login to host

so you have ethernet board on your pc, mm... ok, what about if i am using
modem connection? then i have to use something on unix, any suggestion?
Organization: University of Maine System
Date: Wednesday, 23 Dec 1992 01:04:49 EST
From: Robert Pan <IO11043@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: We Taiwanese have won this election

In article <23DEC92.11342497@twncu865.ncu.edu.tw>, u333057@twncu865.ncu.edu.tw
says:
>
>    The general legislature election had been ended last Saturday(19/12).The  i
>Ta
>wan ruling party KMT lost this election.The Democracy Progress Party(DPP)won
>this election.102 new legislators are KMT's,50 new legislators are DPP's,9 are
>other party's or no party.
>    Although KMT is still the ruling party,but they(KMT)lost many of Taiwan
>electorate's votes.About 31% votes are voted to DPP,DPP won the best votes &
>seats in any election than before.They(DPP)have about 18 seats legislators
>before this election ,but this increases to 50 seats for DPP!Because the
>ruling
>party KMT have many faults this year,so they got lower votes.It's a serious
>warning for KMT.If the ruling party go on doing many things wrong,they will be
>down & the ruling party will be changed.
>    I think it's the real democrary.Which party is better,people will want
>them
>up.And if the ruling party is bad,couldn't satisfy us citizens,we'll let them
>down & chang the ruling party.We could chose the ruling party by our own
>votes.
>No one(including govenment,ruling party,army force etc)could interfere our
>choices.
>    We Taiwanese have told all over the world that we could have good real
>democracy on our own.We have the newest congress,& we'll chose our own
>presiden
>t by our own.
>    When will you Chinese chose your own government by your own?
>                               Tsao Yi-Wen(A university student in Taiwan)
>                                          (Please forgive my poor English..)
>
So, those people who voted for KMT are Chinese, and those who voted for
DPP are Taiwanese? If it's not false, then Chinese have chosen their own
government at least in Taiwan :-).
===================================
Robert Pan               Telephone: (207) 581-2298 Office
                                    (207) 827-8823 Home
1 Hayes St.               Internet: io11043@maine.maine.edu
Old Town, ME 04468-1117    Bitnet: io11043@maine
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi)
Subject: Re: Election in Taiwan
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Lowell Computer Science
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 09:09:23 GMT

In article <1992Dec21.075755.27682@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> nlu@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
>In article <BzLFvo.B4A@ulowell.ulowell.edu> cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi) writes:
>
>Besides, the fact that the DPP won a significant portion of the vote this time
>is an indication that they don't have a mandate to declare Taiwanese
>independence without a plebiscite, and they know it.  Last time, at the
>National Assembly elections, the DPP emphasized TI, and failed miserably.
>This time around, they de-emphasized TI and instead advocated reform from
>within, for the most part.  (Even those "TI candidates" that a TIer posted a
>list of toned down their TI tenets.)  And besides, 36% is hardly close to
>being a majority anyway, and even if they carry a majority, it would take
The danger is that the U.S. is behind all the TI deal. And DDP might
concel it's real intention until seizing power on the issue of TI.
From: v999qx29@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: more than 50% support TI
Date: 2 Jan 93 05:28:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <C03IGE.rA@ulowell.ulowell.edu>, cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi) writes...
>How much can you prepare? If there is going to be War across the Straight, it
>will not be a little one. For China side, Westen intervention should be
>considered. It will not be a civil War, it is going to be another battle
>between East and West civilization. The force in Taiwan itself will not play
>a major role in the future military confrontation, at least China will think
>that Way. 
>You know, We mainlanders are no longer Confusious_moralist_whimpy_monks. Past
>history of China taught us not to have any illusions in dealing with the
>West.


Judged from your postings in both soc.culture.china & soc.culture.taiwan, you
are a Marxist, Leninist and communist. Your body might be Chinese as those of 
people in Taiwan but your mind is a hybrid of German Jew and Russian. How can
you say the war between your comrades( don't tell me it is the Chinese people
, it is a lie and you know it ) and Taiwanese is a war between East and West?
Is communism closer to Chinese culture than captalism?
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: wwang@iastate.edu (Wen-Ping Wang)
Subject: Re: more than 50% support TI
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 07:18:01 GMT

In article <1992Dec30.161649.22832@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> li@sicvax.enet.dec.com (Tom Li) writes:
> ........
>Many people blame "One-China" policy has caused our isolation from the 
>international community. I think "One-China" policy is not a real cause but CCP 
>is. At present Taiwan has difficulty to be recognized as "Republic of 
>ANYTHING". The fault is not the name of China, Taiwan, or Taipei but 
>"Republic". Sometimes I naively wonder whether we can be more flexible to use 
>just "Taiwan" to enter the international organizations - a geographical name 
>which is less controversial and widely-recognized.
>

Imagine 20 years ago when we were kicked out of the UN, if we agreed
to change our country name to Taiwan, we might have a seat in UN now
and there will have 'One China and One Taiwan'. Imagine 10 years ago when
China still isolated itself from the rest of the world, if we started
to use the name Taiwan and there definitely will have 'One China and
One Taiwan'. If above were true, then we don't have to argue here
anymore. :-) 

So is 'One China' policy to blame?

W.P. Wang


Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi)
Subject: Re: more than 50% support TI
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Lowell Computer Science
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 23:02:58 GMT

In article <1992Dec31.053308.17774@zip.eecs.umich.edu> joy@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Chien-Chung Chen) writes:
>In article <C03IGE.rA@ulowell.ulowell.edu> cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi) writes:
>>In article <1992Dec30.211918.3032@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> li@sicvax.enet.dec.com (Tom Li) writes:
>>>Certainly anything is possible, I never say we should not prepare for a 
>>>possible war but we have to take cost versus benefit into account. 
>>How much can you prepare? If there is going to be War across the Straight, it
>>will not be a little one. For China side, Westen intervention should be
>>considered. It will not be a civil War, it is going to be another battle
>>between East and West civilization. The force in Taiwan itself will not play
>>a major role in the future military confrontation, at least China will think
>>that Way. 
>
>Another battle between East and West civilization? Don't you think you
>stretch your imagination a little bit too wild? If Taiwan's people don't
>want the war, no Western country can talk us into one. If Taiwan's people
>decide to seek independence, it's by our own decision, not by others'.
>Why should Taiwan Independence have anything to do with Wetern Imperialism?
Not so! When I saw a TV show hosted by William Buckley Jr, on Fire Line with
major Taiwan officials: Foreign Minister, Gvt SpokesMan, and MandLand Cmmte Vice
director. I was astonished about how naive those officials are, how much
the capability Buckley posses to mainipulate them. From persitent listening to
Taiwan Radio, my perception was renforced. Those things just enlight me the
reasons behind China humiliation during WWII, KMt's defeat by CCP, KMT's
stands on lot of issues, Korea War, and relationship between Tawain and U.S.,
etc.
>Why is people's will so unimportant in your mind? Too much influence from
>CCP's education?
 I had both sides of "educations": communists's and West's. 
You only had one side of story.
>
>>You know, We mainlanders are no longer Confusious_moralist_whimpy_monks. Past
>>history of China taught us not to have any illusions in dealing with the
>>West.
>
>Another fist-waving argument from you again. I think Confucious' moralism
>has been flushed down the toilet in your mind. Dr. Sun said Chinese is a
>peace-loving people. Don't act like a counter-example, OK?
Not without justice.
>
>-- Chien-Chung Chen


Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: chshan@csie.nctu.edu.tw (S. Shann())
Subject: Re: Hou You can get Chinese telnet
Organization: Computer Science & Information Engin., Chiao-Tung U, Taiwan, ROC
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 03:57:02 GMT

  The IP address of ftp.csie.nctu.edu.tw is
                    140.113.17.159

  Get it & enjoy it !
                                           Shann
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: fgg8386@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Fangpu Gao)
Subject: Re: newwer china
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Distribution: soc
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 02:39:15 GMT

"micky wong" <micky.wong@canrem.com> writes:
>......
>Do you want evidence on how those CCP's cadres robbing today's China?

Yes.  Please.
-- 
#+++++++++ Fangpu  Gao  (fgg8386@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu) +++++++++++++++++++++++#
| Univ of Illinois @ Urbana-Champaign |  461 Freer, 906 S. Goodwin Ave.   |
| Department of Kinesiology           |  Urbana, IL  61801                |
#++++++++++    Phone:(217)3338561 (w),   (217)3370568(h)  ++++++++++++++++#
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: cyc@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Yi-Chieh Chang)
Subject: Re: more than 50% support TI
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 19:17:23 GMT

>>What if China don't buy our effort toward mutual understanding eventually?
>
>Then I would say "**** with CCP we go ahead for independence (or status-quo)".
>Sometimes I think independence (or unification) itself is not really a bad 
>thing at all, it is just like pro-choice and anti-abortion disputes. Neither
>is absolute wrong or absolute right. The bad thing is that political motives 
>behind the ideas. I feel these ideas have often been distorted by special 
>interest groups to serve their political purposes. During the Chinese civil 
>war, Chinese people turned their back and supported CCP. After 40 years it is 
>clearly that CCP is much worse than KMT. We just have to be very careful with 
>these special interest groups this time.
>

The only and most important reason I support TI is that Taiwanese can't
give CCP 'one inch' in touching Taiwan, otherwise Taiwan is doomed.
For example, if Taiwanese are scared when CCP threatened to attack Taiwan if
we go for TI, then what are we going to do if CCP do the same trick 
when they decide to send their governors or even troops to Taiwan. Are we
going to reject it or accept it ? If you give people one inch, they will
ask for one foot, if you give one foot, they will ask for all of your
properties. So, Taiwanese must be wise and confident enough not to give CCP
even 'one inch' at the very beginning.

Yi-Chieh
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: joy@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Chien-Chung Chen)
Subject: Re: China(was More than 50% support TI)
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 04:32:58 GMT

In article <1993Jan4.025634.9120@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> nlu@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
>In article <C0B1ns.AI3@ulowell.ulowell.edu> cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi) writes:
>>China has land that can produce  three harvests of rice and one harvest of
>>weeds for fertilizer.
>
>Hmmm...  Why do you want to produce weeds?  Or do you mean seaweed?  Yum!
>
>(Sorry; I know that you meant "wheat," but I just can't resist it.)

Growing "wheat" for fertilizer? I get confused by both of you.
Could some kind soul explain this to me?

-- Chien-Chung Chen
From: liaohen@cbnews.cb.att.com (Heng-Hsin Liao)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: more than 50% support TI
Date: 23 Dec 92 21:39:00 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Lab

From article <YCHEN.92Dec23145112@sp1.csrd.uiuc.edu>, by ychen@sp1.csrd.uiuc.edu (Yung-Chin Chen):
> In article <Bzq28F.15x@cs.uiuc.edu> yang@milton.cs.uiuc.edu (Der-Shung Yang) writes:
> 
>>   Is "One China, One Taiwan" equivelent to TI?  I think the idea of "One China, 
>>   One Taiwan" is more moderate than TI.  I guess you can say that most people
>>   in Taiwan do not want to reunify with China.  However, it's not the same as
>>   saying that most people in Taiwan support TI.
> 
> I would call "One China, One Taiwan" as IT (independent Taiwan). No
> matter what it is, TI or IT, from CCP's point of view (and Mr. Hau),
> they are all TI and they cannot be tolerated.

I would be a little bit conservative on this. My estimation is 35-40%.
However, this number encourages me to predict a referendum and an
independence declaration before 2000.

One thing needs to be noted is that after the election, Mainstream KMT
will need some time for reintegration. Non-mainstream KMT, on the other
hand, have no problem on reintegration for several reasons. This fact
will impact whether Hau stays and whether KMT will be conservative or
progressive for the next few years a lot.


Heng-Hsin
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: wwang@iastate.edu (Wen-Ping Wang)
Subject: Re: Election in Taiwan
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 04:55:05 GMT

In article <Bzozx7.Fyt@austin.ibm.com> tylee@leety.austin.ibm.com (Ty Lee) writes:
>In article <BzovCK.5vs@news.iastate.edu> wwang@iastate.edu (Wen-Ping Wang) writes:
>>
>>How do you know those two people( namely, Cheng nan-rong and Jhen
>>yi-hwa ) were forced by the "TI terrorist" to burn themself, istead
>>of by their own will to express the right for freedom of speech?
>>
>
>No, I believe no soul in the world would burn itself without external
>forces. And, according to the newspaper I read, they were inflamed by 
>other people. 
>
>I don't believe human being would have freedom of speech
>after death, except by the people who intended to exploit the deaths.
>

I really don't like to repeat the story of Mr. Cheng nan-rong unless
the netters are interested. But just when there are couple articles
discussing about the possible biased position of several newspapers,
does it occur to you that the story you read might have been twisted
already?  

W.P. Wang
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: tsen+@cs.cmu.edu (Chung Kang Tsen)
Subject: applying graduate school
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 22:37:41 GMT


Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan