From: gross@befvax.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: THE HOAXER PROJECT REPORT (Racist and Anti-Semitic Hoaxes and more!)
Reply-To: gross@befvax.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago, Dept of Molecular Genetics
Distribution: world,local
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 05:40:50 GMT

In article <1992Apr16.010319.1368@highland.oz.au>, andrew@highland.oz.au (Andrew Morton) writes:
>Ralph:      Never
>Anti-Ralph: Frequent (Assigning political status where none was given,
>                      accusations of posting under a pseudonym, etc)

Your just wrong about this.  Ralph has called people lots of names.
He posts articles from groups with a clear political status.  
Pseudonym?  Ask him who he works for, where he lives, what his job is,
what his training is.  No answer.

>:    2. Name calling and labeling
>
>Ralph:      Minimal
>Anti-Ralph: Shitbrain, dickhead, nazi trash, etc, etc

Ralph refers to all of his enemies as Zionists.  See what names he calls
Elie Weisel, Simon Weinsenthal and the ADL.

>:    3. Irresponsible sweeping generalizations
>
>Not much on either side.

"Zionist control of the media?"

>:    4. Inadequate proof for assertions
>
>Well, proof of assertions is the very substance of this debate.

Sorry, but nothing the IHR says has ever been published in a refereed journal.
Please look at the court case.

>:    5. Advocacy of double standards

See how Ralph and his friends use historical texts.

>:    6. Tendency to view their opponents and critics as essentially evil
>
>Ralph:       I don't think so
>Anti-Ralph:  Assuredly

He calls all his enemies Zionist, and says he is anti-Zionist.

>:    7. Manichean worldview
>
>Where's my dictionary?

Dichotomy of good vs. evil.  
Winston believes that there is an evil Jewish conspiracy to dominate
the world.  

>:    8. Advocacy of some degee of censorship or repression of their
>:       opponents and/or critics

>Ralph:      No
>Anti-Ralph: Enormously

Bullshit.  They quote texts out of context, which means they repress
the actual content and use it for their own purposes.  
They also publish the Ad from the Northwestern Daily without saying that
it is an ad, and don't publish the Northwestern Daily's response.
Pete Faust said that anyone who says that Jews were gassed is a war
criminal.  What do you think of that?


>:    9. Tend to identify themselves in terms of who their enemies are:
>:       whom they hate and who hates them
>
>Not much of this

Bullshit.  They call all their enemies Zionist and call themselves anti-
Zionist.  They also call anybody who believes in the truth of the Holocaust
"exterminationists", and call themselves "revisionists."  What more do 
you want.

>:    10. Tendency toward argument by intimidation

>Ralph:      Never
>Anti-Ralph: Frequent (censorship, removal of connection, etc)

Apparently your not familiar with the practices of the KKK affiliated
group the NAAWP where Ralph gets his information from.  Do you consider
cross burning intimidation?

>:    11. Use of slogans, buzzwords, and thought-stopping cliches
>
>Ralph:      Don't think so
>Anti-Ralph: Nazi trash, Anti-Semite, Racist, etc, etc

Zionist thought police?  Zionist control of the press?  Zionist control
of the banks?  'Freedom of speech'?  'Hoax'

>:    12. Assumption of moral or other superiority over others

>Not really relevant
Really, when they call Elie Wiesel, the Nobel Prize winner for Peace a
liar?  When they say that the Jews are lying about the holocaust and they
are telling the truth?  When they say they are for freedom of speech and
others aren't?

>:    14. Belief that it's okay to do bad things in the service of a "good"
>:        cause
>
>Not unless you include censorship.

How about insulting the memory of the dead, and slandering holocaust
survivors, Elie Wiesel, Simon Weisenthal, Mermelstein, and the ADL.

>:    15. Emphasis on emotional responses and, correspondingly, less
>:        importance attached to reasoning and logical analysis
>
>Ralph:      Not guilty
>Anti-Ralph: Guilty: name calling, mainly.

The 'logical reasoning' in the articles they post is nonsense.  The
motivation for the conclusions is hate, not scholarship.
This comes from the Duke Univeristy History Department.

>:    16. Hypersensitivity and vigilance
>
>Ralph:      Nope
>Anti-Ralph: Nope: you don't need to be hyper-sensitive to be offended by Ralph.

Ralph refers to anyone who disagrees with him as a Zionist.

>:    19. Inclination toward "groupthink"
>
>Well, Ralph's argument is that this is so.
Ralph's discussion of Jews is classic group think.

>:    20. Tendency to personalize hostility
>
>Ralph:      Nope
>Anti-Ralph: Pretty clear-cut.

You haven't been reading.  Look at what they say about Mermelstein.

>:    21. Extremists often feel that the system is no good unless they win
>
>Ralph:      Guilty!!! Blames PC thinking, media bias, etc for unpopularity
>               of his ideas.
>Anti-Ralph: Innocent!   (They've won)
He also blames this for the court case.

>-------
>
>Conclusion: It's about time Ralph's detractors calmed down a bit.

It's about time for Ralph Winston to be exposed for what he really is.

>Caveat: It's easy for Ralph to win this one, because most of his postings
>        consist of one-way transcriptions of other people's essay-style
>        writings, rather than real dialogue.
No shit.  That way everything is polished and nice, and neat.  Just like
the Ads that they put in the newspaper which the Duke Univeristy Dept
of History says that they look like scholarship from their appearance,
but have no scholarship in content.

>Recommendation: Don't respond to Ralph's pre-potted postings.  Try to
>                draw him into real interactive debate/discussion.

He doesn't answer any of my questions.   And I refuse to debate him
as an equal.  Here's why: 

"The 'revisionism'.. is not meant to rectify a historical
error; rather its aim is to hurt Jews and to demean and demonize them.
...As historians we deplore the effort to use the language of 'scholarship'
to distort and oblieterate and event which, to our everlasting shame,
did occur.  We urge all the members of the Duke community to treat
such advertisment with the contempt they deserve."
	Quoted from 'The history department responds to Holocaust Ad'
	Unanimously approved at History Department meeting, 11/8/91
	Duke University Chronicle, Wed, Nov 13, 1991 

Leon Gross
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV.
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