HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: daveb@harlqn.co.uk (Dave Berry)
Subject: Re: Images in the media
Organization: Harlequin Ltd, Cambridge, UK
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 10:22:05 GMT

vashti@concave.cs.wits.ac.za (Vashti Galpin) writes:
>Last night, I saw the BBC production of `Oranges are not the Only
>Fruit' based on Jeanette Winterson's booko

Yes. I enjoyed that too.  I even suggested adding it to the list
of bi-positive videos that we were showing at a national conference,
until someone pointed out that the bisexual character wasn't exactly
a positive portrayal!

Dave.
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: rsr@soda.berkeley.edu (Roy S. Rapoport)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: accidently out
Date: 11 Nov 1992 23:22:02 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley, CS Undergraduate Association
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu

In article <28005@castle.ed.ac.uk> moragw@castle.ed.ac.uk (Alloy Serving Woman) writes:
[Accidentally out to the 'rents]

->When they left, after big hugs and dad's usual contribution to the poor
->student daughter fund, I felt really unnerved.  They know about me and
->they're politely leaving me to talk about it if I want to, not forcing
->me or anything, which is great, I suppose.  So why does it feel so
->stomach churningly weird ?  Don't know what else to say, just wanted to
->share my feelings, maybe get some reassurances.

*gentle hug* 

May I suggest a possible reason why you're feeling this way?

I've had a fantasy of accidentally being outed to my parents for a while now
... it would make things so much easier, and none of the responsibility
would be on my shoulders ... it would just be an accident.

I think the idea of sort of accidentally outing yourself to your parents
without making a 'big' thing out of is a rather attractive one ... 

So here you were, thinking this whole "talk" thing with your parents could
be avoided when they suddenly realized you're queer, and they're _still_
leaving the opportunity, the initiative up to you ... 

I know the feeling ... 

-roy

-- 
Roy S. Rapoport          rsr@soda.berkeley.edu             rsr@ocf.berkeley.edu
"Letters from you make me feel good."  -Laura Creighton
"Why do you guys all have to have penises?" -anon
DISCLAIMER:  "I meant every word of it, but I doubt anyone else did."
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: MJW19@phx.cam.ac.uk (Michael Williams)
Subject: Re: accidently out
Reply-To: MJW19@phx.cam.ac.uk (M.J. Williams)
Organization: The National Society for the Inversion of Cudddly Tigers
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 00:39:44 GMT

In article <1ds4iqINNc3a@agate.berkeley.edu> rsr@soda.berkeley.edu (Roy S. Rapoport) writes:
>I've had a fantasy of accidentally being outed to my parents for a while now
>... it would make things so much easier, and none of the responsibility
>would be on my shoulders ... it would just be an accident.

Oh, bliss... The only problem is that it would have to be an accident. An
accident that is engineered is no longer an accident. Oh well...

Mike.
--
____________________________________________________________________________
\  /  / Michael Williams                     Part II Computer Science Tripos
|\/|\/\ MJW19@phx.cam.ac.uk                          University of Cambridge
|  |(__)Cymdeithas Genedlaethol Traddodiad Troi Teigrod Mwythus Ben I Waered
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: sconley@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Stephen M Conley)
Subject: Re: New Age Androgynous Bisexuals...
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 23:44:21 GMT

In article <Bx8oFL.9Iu@newcastle.ac.uk> J.W.Harley@newcastle.ac.uk (Jon Harley)
 writes:

>When someone comes into bi-space and attacks part of the bisexual community
>(ie new age bisexuals), attacking and seeking to ridicule their beliefs, to
>me that is oppression. I want the bisexual community to be all-inclusive.
>Elf's view seems to be that we should not welcome all bisexuals, only the
>ones he approves of. If I was an androgynous new age bi, I would feel
>oppressed by this.

No.  Oppression is Measure 9 in Oregon or 2 in Colorado.  Not Elf's
opinion.  By allowing someone's opinion of you to make you feel oppressed, 
you create your own oppression, and an oppression you've earned, at that!  
Liberation is not "Don't say bad things about me."  Liberation is "Fuck you, 
I don't care what you think."  That's why PC-speak is so stupid.

Beliefs are attacked all the time.  That's how we find out which beliefs
are the best:  by seeing which ones stand up to attack.  No, Elf has every
moral right to attack beliefs he sees as destructive, and those under attack
have every right to fire back (intellectually, that is--some of my
anarchocapitalist friends might take me literally here :-).  People call
things like that "argument" and "debate".

>His damn opinion is divisive and negative towards others, so yes.

Nearly every opinion is divisive and negative towards others.  My opinion
that red Lifesavers are the best is negative towards those who prefer yellow.
An opinion is *never* oppression.  To think so is to take the first step
down a long dark road...

>It is a matter of indifference to me whether my views happen to coincide
>with what is currently PC or not.

Personally, I find your views divisive and negative toward anyone who wants
to speak and think freely, but I will not leap to the conclusion that you're
oppressing anyone.

>/jon

Steve
From: fenthe@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Oxford bi info
Date: 11 Nov 92 12:24:14 -0500
Organization: Carnegie Mellon Computer Club

In article <1992Nov10.164733.10033@vax.oxford.ac.uk>, rcharles@vax.oxford.ac.uk writes:
> A big hello out there to all like minded folk.

 Hi! Great to see you made it to soc.bi.. 

 (I'm the skinny one with the leggings and juggling stuff from the meetings..  
<grin> )

 **hugs, snuggles, and other such de-muffinning-type pleasures**

-- 
Daniel Mitchell = Fenthe Marten = fenthe@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu =
m91djm@ecs.ox.ac.uk = dmitchell@cix.compulink.co.uk = bi furry juggler
Snailmail: 18, High St // Earls Colne // Essex CO6 2PA // ENGLAND
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: gtoal@ibmpcug.co.uk (Graham Toal)
Subject: Re: Altruism (was: two men)
Organization: The IBM PC User Group, UK.
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 13:29:06 GMT

In article <1992Nov8.082616.14207@midway.uchicago.edu> orc@amber.uchicago.edu writes:
>   (For example, I was moderately active in resisting the Vietnam
>war when I was a child.  Admittedly, there was very little chance
>that I would have been at risk in the war, because it petered out
>when I was 12-13, and the circles which my family and friends moved
>were in the class that didn't get drafted (I grew up in the USA,
>which got cannon fodder in the old-fashioned way), but still, the
>war was *wrong* and needed to be resisted.  The immediate risk to
>me of these actions was, I dunno, a nice little addition to the
>Parsons family FBI file, and the gain? I can't think of anything,
>if you disregard the lives saved by stopping the war, and repairing
>the damage to the moral fibre of the USA, which would be obvious.)

The gain?  Look how damn smug you are!  You're sure you did the right
thing.  Your 'pleasure centre' in your brain has been stimulated by
this knowledge countless times.  *that's* what I meant by the value
of the act being rated higher than the concrete consequences.

Now if you had, for instance, supported OR9 because you knew the majority
of people in Oregon wanted it, but afterwards felt like a shit for
having done it - *that* would be altruistic.

Altruism is mainly self-deception about motives coupled with enlightened
self-interest.  There's nothing wrong with it but admit to yourself that
your motives are purely selfish even if the results *are* for the
betterment of society.

G
--
From: rsr@soda.berkeley.edu (Roy S. Rapoport)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: My inner man
Date: 11 Nov 1992 13:18:39 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley, CS Undergraduate Association
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu

In article <s882916.721456368@otto> s882916@otto (Vikki POLLARD) writes:

->
->Inner man. GROSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
->
->ok ok so I'm slighty sexist I know so don't bother telling me.

Hey Vikki, did you know you're sexist?  

-roy
-- 
Roy S. Rapoport          rsr@soda.berkeley.edu             rsr@ocf.berkeley.edu
"Letters from you make me feel good."  -Laura Creighton
"Why do you guys all have to have penises?" -anon
DISCLAIMER:  "I meant every word of it, but I doubt anyone else did."
From: seamus@ravel.udel.edu (James G Dilmore)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: definitions, motivations, and a question (was Re: Altruism)
Date: 10 Nov 92 22:22:59 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.BxIu6C.4vq
Organization: University of Delaware

In article <MUFFY.92Nov10140657@remarque.berkeley.edu> muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu (Muffy Barkocy) writes:
>Actually, it seems to me that the discussion is much more about
>motivations than about behaviors.  As you say, there is some agreement
>as to which behaviors are desirable.  I suppose if we ever finish this
>discussion, we can start talking about whether motivations are more,
>less, or equally as important as actions...*grin*.
>
>That last seems to have rather a lot of bi-relevance, by the way.  I was
>reminded of this by a recent (read it a couple of minutes ago)
>demuffining.  Why is it that there's so often the question of *doing*
>something (sex) with members of both sexes before saying you're bi?  Why
>isn't it based on attraction rather than action?  I was pretty much this
>way myself, but I still don't understand it.
>
>Muffy
>--
I assume that the demuffing in question was mine.  My stance on this
issue is that it is definitely the motivations which make someone bi.
Many people consider themselves het, but are not sexually active.  The
same is true for any orientation.  If one is attracted to both sexes I
see this for myself as bi.  I stop short of applying this to anyone else.
Many people do not choose to identify themselves as bi for one reason or
another.  That is fine I don't think it needs to be absolute.  

I think that this designation is important in the realm of GLB public
perception.  The general public(that I know) view the GLB community as
a sex-crazed, oversexed, perverted bunch who will do just about anything
to get off.  This is definitely something which I feel should be dispelled.
Along these lines I totally agree with Muffy.

Jim, who is quickly getting his sea-legs
-- 
Jim Dilmore - seamus@brahms.udel.edu    
               SILENCE = DEATH    
This is not a black and white world,
to be alive I believe the colors must be swirled- Live.~
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: sconley@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Stephen M Conley)
Subject: Re: Bisexual libertariansn ear
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 01:56:14 GMT

In article <1992Nov6.231754.8252@Princeton.EDU> datepper@phoenix.Princeton.EDU
(David Aaron Tepper) writes:

>Interesting that Steve Conley pointed out that a lot of bisexuals are
>libertarians. I am one myself--I've got the card and everything! Could
>this be a trend?               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

The bisexual card or the Libertarian card?  If it's the former, where
can I get one?  "The Bisexual Card.  It pays to be Bisexual."

>More to the point, how hospitable has the LP been to non-heteros
>compared to the Democrats or Republicans?

I'm not out anywhere except the net, but if I were I'd be out to my
friends in the LP.  In fact, I'm seriously considering coming out to
two of them.  They're very, very tolerant people.

One of our local state legislature canididates emphasized the extension
of free association rights to GLBO*s in his campaign.  In Ohio, it
is a misdemeanor to 'hit' on a motss.  He didn't seem concerned that
some people might question his sexual orientation just because he made 
GLBO* rights part of his campaign.

Also, the LP is the only party I know of that supports extended marriage
and polyamorous arrangements.  In fact, we don't even support state
licensing of marriage, since it's essentially just a contract.

Of course, like any organization the LP is made up of all sorts of people,
so your mileage may vary.

Steve
sconley@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
"I will liberate you for food!"
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: kraig@athena.cs.uga.edu (Kraig Count)
Subject: Re: Finally Doing It ... Coming Out
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 17:58:11 GMT

In article <1992Nov9.225742.15759@midway.uchicago.edu> orc@amber.uchicago.edu writes:
>In article <1992Nov9.192631.28625@athena.cs.uga.edu> kraig@athena.cs.uga.edu (Kraig Count) writes:
>|be both Gay and Straight, and my least favorite "All You Really Need
>|is a Good Woman and you will Forget this BULLSHIT").
>
>   I've always liked this last stereotype.  It can be so
>wonderfully bogus.  In my case, it fits in quite well with my
>stress sensitive kinsey rating - recently, after spending some time
>with a very nice woman indeed, I noticed my sexual orientation
>tilting in a rather non-heterosexual direction indeed.  It would be
>a wonderful way to confuse someone who tried to unload that
>stereotype on you: "All you need is a Good Woman(tm)" "Yeah, but
>whenever I fuck a Good Woman(tm), I then want to go out and do it
>with a Good Man(tm) too!" (as certain readers of soc.bi can
>probably testify about ;-)
>

Indeed, I have found that I have always wanted both in quick 
succesion (sp?).  Unfortunately, this never seems to happen
*sigh*

<*hugs*> to everyone

later,

kraig

Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: dwells@lonestar.utsa.edu (Darren . Wells)
Subject: Re: a tiny bit more out
Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 18:08:37 GMT

In article <1992Nov4.213850.19519@ctp.com> sthor@ctp.com (Sarah Thornburg) writes:
>This is my first post here, but I've been reading for a while, and finally


*sniff sniff*

Is this a fresh muffin?

*sniffs again*
*eyes light up*
*runs in direction of Sarah*


*pounce*
*lick*

Welcome welcome welcome!
Have an e-hug!  *hug*


And have a nice day.

Darren
(gleefully spending 1000's of dollars of the school's money to
respond to every other post)

Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid)
Subject: Re: Homophobic garbage
Organization: Eris's Restaurant
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 16:01:09 GMT

In article <1ds6faINNcfd@agate.berkeley.edu> rsr@soda.berkeley.edu (Roy S. Rapoport) writes:
>3)   MALE will come in with a random number between the lowest integer and the 
>     highest ... so the chances of it being 0 (so !MALE is true) are very very
>     small.

Nope.  MALE's value is implementation-dependent.

>4)   You don't have 'then' in C.

True.  I didn't spot that :(

>8)   Your tab style sucks (I'd have deducted some points, but then again, I'm
>     anal-retentive).

Aww, it was harmless enough.

>9)   You didn't seed the random function.

True.

>10)  rand() is much less reliable than random()

Not everyone *has* random().

>Now, then ... for my implementation.  

>---
>#include <stdio.h>
>
>/* Mundane number of partners is assumed for the benefit of the original
>   poster 
>*/
>int partner_1 ; 
>int partner_2 ; 

Ah! Gotcha!  partner_1 and partner_2 aren't distinct in the first 7
characters, so old (V7) linkers can't distinguish between them.  Better
not use these externs from another module...

>/* Mundane number of genders is assumed for the benefit of the original 
>   poster
>*/
>#define MALE 1
>#define FEMALE !MALE

Nope.  Why bother with !MALE when you can write 0, and save evaluations?

>char *approval(void) {

Ewwww! Ansiform! Ansiform! <spit>.  Anyway, it's much nicer not to have
partner_1 and partner_2 as externs; pass them into the function instead.

>	if (partner_1 == partner_2) {
>		/* Same-sex */
>		if (partner_1 == MALE) {
>			/* Fags */
>			return ("Y'all are freaks and will burn in hell!") ; 
>		}
>		else {
>			/* Dykes */
>			return ("Y'all are so hot! I'm joining you!") ; 
>		}
>	}
>	else {
>		/* Breeders */
>		return("Y'all are OK.") ; 
>	}
>}
>		
>main(void) {
>
>	/* Initialize the random function */
>	srandom(time(0)) ; 

Where are your extern declarations for srandom() and time()?

>	partner_1 = random() % 2 ; 
>	partner_2 = random() % 2 ; 

Again, no extern declaration for random().  You're assuming that
the lsb for random() is well-distributed (it's not).  Even given
that, why not random() & 1?

>	printf("%s\n", approval()) ; 

No exit() or return()?

>}
>
>---
>
>Granted, this will yield heterosexual couples 50% of the time (Chance of
>having a lesbian couple: .5 * .5 = .25.  Chance of having a gay couple: .5 *
>.5 = .25.  Chance of having a same-sex couple = .25 + .25 = .5.  Chance of
>having a het couple: 1 - P(same-sex) = 1 - .5 = .5).

And what about the standard deviance? :)


				Kay
-- 
6'2", dark short hair, blue eyes, bisexual and horny as ....
Kay Dekker, Dept of Industrial Design, Coventry University, Coventry UK
37 Old Winnings Road, Keresley Village, Coventry   |B0 f t+ g++ k++! s+ e r p!
Phone: +44 203 838668 (work) +44 203 337865 (home) |Deflowerer-of-innocents
From: kludge@grissom.larc.nasa.gov (Scott Dorsey)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Wanderer Returns
Date: 13 Nov 1992 20:45:33 GMT
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center and Reptile Farm
NNTP-Posting-Host: grissom.larc.nasa.gov

>>And what do you know?  Yes, THE HOT TUB WAS WORKING!
>>(After some filtration with a hastily-bought kiddy goldfish-net.)

On a similar note, I'm going to be in Seattle and Portland for the first
week in December.  Anything exciting going on?  Yes, I realize that Seattle
isn't Scotland, but...
--scott
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: MJW19@phx.cam.ac.uk (Michael Williams)
Subject: Re: .sig
Reply-To: MJW19@phx.cam.ac.uk (M.J. Williams)
Organization: The National Society for the Inversion of Cudddly Tigers
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 22:27:22 GMT

In article <1992Nov10.210901.24110@aber.ac.uk> ahb0@aber.ac.uk (Anna He Baik) writes:
>
>Awwww......Hugs & swsus mawr from a fellow muffin then!
>eek....leapt into this without checking out wot i gotta do to
>post this....erm...wibble!
>swsus,
>yon

What was that I heard? Nah... Must have been the wind...
There it goes again... Was that "Muffin" I heard?...
Hmm...

*STALK*

...

*POUNCE*
*HUG*

There, have one back 8-)

Mike.
--
____________________________________________________________________________
\  /  / Michael Williams                     Part II Computer Science Tripos
|\/|\/\ MJW19@phx.cam.ac.uk                          University of Cambridge
|  |(__)Cymdeithas Genedlaethol Traddodiad Troi Teigrod Mwythus Ben I Waered
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid)
Subject: Re: New Age Androgynous Bisexuals...
Organization: Eris's Restaurant
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 15:36:33 GMT

In article <01010066.idankb@unicorn.resun.com> chris@unicorn.resun.com writes:
> Or is sex with Elf suddenly a "God" given right? :-)

If it were, I'd probably be on my knees now :)

				Kay
-- 
6'2", dark short hair, blue eyes, bisexual and horny as ....
Kay Dekker, Dept of Industrial Design, Coventry University, Coventry UK
37 Old Winnings Road, Keresley Village, Coventry   |B0 f t+ g++ k++! s+ e r p!
Phone: +44 203 838668 (work) +44 203 337865 (home) |Deflowerer-of-innocents
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: gtoal@ibmpcug.co.uk (Graham Toal)
Subject: Re: Altruism (was: two men)
Organization: The IBM PC User Group, UK.
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 00:43:47 GMT

In article <Bx8ty5.HoK@newcastle.ac.uk> J.W.Harley@newcastle.ac.uk (Jon Harley) writes:
>>all self-satisfied and smug because they are so self-sacrificing.
>
>NOT TRUE and I resent being called self-satisfied and smug.

Altruism is where the positive value of self-satisfaction from the act done
outweighs the negative concrete value to yourself of the action.  I dispute
that true altruism - where you do something to your detriment, voluntarily,
*and feel bad about it* exists.

To convince yourself that you work from altruistic motives is shallow
self-deception.

G
--
From: mreape@cs.tcd.ie (Mike Reape)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: This has probably already been asked...
Date: 12 Nov 92 17:36:47 GMT
Organization: Trinity College, Dublin (Computer Science)

In article <1992Nov11.131236.10704@dsg.cs.tcd.ie> cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Ciaran McHale) writes:
>In article <dbarber.721164647@crash.cts.com>
>dbarber@crash.cts.com (David C. Barber) writes:
>>Why is the lack of acceptance from the gays as bad as the lack of
>>acceptance from the hets?
>
>As an analogy: hurt often hurts more if it comes from a friend or
>family member rather than from a stranger.
>
>So, as a bisexual person, I can expect to get shit from straight people.
>To me, the straight people are "strangers" in the analogy. When a GL
>person (who are "family") gives me shit, it hurts much more than
>*comparable* [1] shit from a straight person.

In my experience I always get equal amounts of hassle from gays and
straights (per capita so to speak).  I never see anything but evidence
that gays and straights don't feel threatened by bisexuals in roughly
equal amounts (again considering the numbers).  I think that's the key
to understanding why gays can reject bis (we're a threat) and why I
see gay intolerance just as unacceptable and infuriating as straight
intolerance.  I've always reacted more with anger than hurt and the
point is that I would get just as angry at a gay man say for giving me
shit as a straight person.  They both just feel like alien communities
to me (says someone who lives in an almost totally straight world.
Take all of the above with a grain of salt.)

-Mike
From: sa121@cl.cam.ac.uk (S. Arrowsmith)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Finally Doing It ... Coming Out
Date: 9 Nov 92 21:55:28 GMT
Reply-To: SA121@phx.cam.ac.uk (S. Arrowsmith)
Organization: Surrealists against Lobsters

In article <1992Nov9.055900.15756@midway.uchicago.edu> orc@amber.uchicago.edu writes:
>  (That said, there are two people on this planet that I'm
>remaining closeted to; I am still pretending to be straight to my
>two surviving grandparents, who are distressingly fundamentalist
>Xian, and very old and fragile.  Having to deflect their
>increasingly frequent questions about when I'm gonna find a
>girlfriend and settle down like my brothers is, well, annoying in
>the extreme, and I only tolerate it from them because I fear that
>the truth would kill them.  Dealing with them is *more than enough
>self-deception for this camper, thankyouverymuch.)
>
(I'm not going to put a huge great lot about this here 'cos I'm on
a slow and grungy terminal -- but I had to say something about that
last para.):

Much the same as me -- except in my case it's one surviving grand-
parent and two of my father's aunts, all three grey haired old ladies
and Christian to boot.  And they used to really bug me about getting 
a girlfriend, but that seems to have stopped recently (maybe they
got the hint that I didn't appreciate the question).  Much as I was
tempted at times, I never turned round and said "No, I don't have a 
girlfriend -- I've got a boyfriend."  Of course, that's no longer
an option (if nothing else, I like to be honest) but getting across 
the full extent of my unattached status if they start up again at
Christmas could get, er, entertaining.  My parents have requested
that I don't out myself to them, but if those stupid questions start
up again, I will not be held responsible for my actions....

--
\S
SA121@phx.cam.ac.uk   | There's nowt |"And in this moment, I need to be needed
sarrowsm@nyx.cs.du.edu| so queer as  |"When my self-esteem is sinking,
                      | folk....     |"I like to be liked" -- Peter Gabriel