From: HADCRJAM@admin.uh.edu (MILLER, JIMMY A.)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
Subject: Re: 9 1/2 Weeks
Date: 22 Dec 1992 20:08:11 GMT
Organization: University of Houston Administrative Computing
Distribution: world
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In <1992Dec17.014613.14202@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> mdriscol@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu writes:

> In article <4442@cvbnetPrime.COM> csroc@cvbnet.prime.com (cvbnet) writes:
> 
> >ooops my mistake
> >but my point as applies to KiM Basinger, not Carrie Otis
> >is even stronger.  Kim was the aggresser in 9 1/2 weeks,
> >not Mickey Rourke.  Kim is a willing, enthusiastic
> >participant in pleasure(Carrie needing a wee bit of coaxing,
> >but this was not rape by anyones definition but yours.
> 
> What?  Mickey Rourke abused and hurt her and *she* was the
> aggressor?  Interesting.  We are so accustomed to female
> sexual passivity in films that when a woman shows pleasure,
> she is seen as an aggressor.

  Didn't see 9 1/2 Weeks, but can't let the remainder of this slide.

> >When a woman seeks sex it cannot be called rape.
> >Furthur when people are enjoying it , it is called
> >pleasure.  This was pleasureable sex for both people
> >(in both movies)
> 
> First, let me say that it is when MEN enjoy sex that it
> is called pleasure.  Women's pleasure is usually not considered
> important in heterosexual intercourse.

  Actually, I always find that if ANYONE enjoys something, then THAT
INDIVIDUAL calls it PLEASURE.  Last I checked, when a woman enjoys sex
she calls it "pleasure" as well.  This sentence does little for your cred-
ibility -- I find it quite sounds quite hysterical, much like the rantings
of certain right-wing Moral Majority types.

  Your second sentence is an interesting generalization which belongs in the
"Frenzied Man-Hater Hall of Fame".  I also feel it is untrue and would further
observe that I often see things like this and never see anything that serves
to back them up beyond statistically useless anecdotes.  Frankly, if my partner
is not enjoying herself, the I'm not going to enjoy myself.  Good sex is gen-
erally a two-way street (IMO).

> Second, if a woman is raped, she is raped, whether she happened
> to have pleasure [including orgasm] or not.  If she is forced
> or coerced to engage in sexual activity, it is rape.  and it's
> not her fault.

  I don't think anyone would dispute this much.  Frankly, I don't think you 
read the post:  Think about it for a second, if someone desires sex with a
particular person, and that partner has sex with them, it is NOT rape (consent
was given and not withdrawn).

  Did this happen in the movie?  Not that I think it matters to you what DID or
DID NOT happen in the movie...your prejudices on this matter are quite clear.


semper fi,

Jammer Jim Miller 
Texas A&M University '89 and '91
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