HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: briang@atlastele.com (Brian Godfrey)
Subject: Re: Cold feet
Organization: Atlas Telecom Inc.
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 20:16:17 GMT

In article <1992Dec14.170824.795@hls.com> ravi@hls.com writes:
>Hi,
>	This might sound silly but how do you keep your feet warm inside
>a sleeping bag ? 

   Crawl into it feet first.

   (Seriously, wear a hat.)

-- 
--Brian M. Godfrey
  atlastele.com
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: ari@world.std.com (Ari I Halberstadt)
Subject: Re: Which pack: Gregory or Mountainsmith?
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 19:08:12 GMT

In article <C00CIs.Hp7@chinet.chi.il.us> eberg@chinet.chi.il.us (Erik Arthur Berg) writes:
>   I'm trying to decide which pack to buy; a Mountainsmith Elite 5000
>or a Gregory Nova.  I've looked at the Mountainsmith and it seems very
>well constructed with lots of nice details.  I have used a Gregory
>Day and a Half pack and liked it but I haven't found a dealer in Chicago
>that carries Gregory to look at a Nova.  Anybody familiar with both care
>to make a recommendation?  I will post a summary if there is interest.

A few months ago I was looking at packs. Many people said the
Mountainsmith tended to fall apart. I've only heard good things about
Gregory. In the end, it came down to a choice between a Gregory Nova
and a Dana Designs ArcFlex Terraplane.  The Dana won because it
was slightly more comfortable on my back, but this had more to do with
the precise shape of the pack and my back than with superior
construction on the part of Dana (or so I've been told, though I
think the Dana is great).
-- 
Ari Halberstadt       ari@world.std.com             #include <std/disclaimer.h>
Ramsgate (n.) All institutional buildings must, by law, contain at least twenty
ramsgates. These are doors that open the opposite way to the one you expect.
	-- D. Adams & J. Lloyd "The Meaning of Liff", p75.
From: gdixon@bozell.com (Glenn Dixon)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: On-Line Weather reports from UofM and NOAA (How?)
Date: 22 Dec 1992 13:49:22 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

Specifically, how can I access these by e-mail?

Thanks!



&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
& Glenn E. Dixon          & You are the one who causes me pain; you are the &
& Temerlin McClain        & one who causes me grief; you are the one who    &
& gdixon@bozell.com       & lied to me; it won't be long, soon you will see.&
& (NeXTmail welcome!)     & King is coming!          - King's X -           &
& My company has NO CLUE! &                                                 &
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
From: bowen@cs.Buffalo.EDU (Devon E Bowen)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: First Aid Liability
Date: 21 Dec 92 20:46:14 GMT
Organization: State University of New York at Buffalo/Comp Sci
Originator: bowen@mira.cs.buffalo.edu


In article <1gqtlnINN395@grapevine.EBay.Sun.COM>, greg@antizen.EBay.Sun.COM writes:
> It was recognized a long time ago that if first-aiders or well-meaning
> citizens could be sued, no one would ever stop to help.

I have heard that in some European countries (Switzerland and Germany at
least) first aid knowledge is required for a drivers license and that you
must stop and help if you see an accident. I've also heard that no one
ever does.

Devon
From: kiravuo@hut.fi (Timo Kiravuo)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: First Aid Liability
Date: 22 Dec 92 16:13:45 GMT
	<1992Dec18.131457.22726@brtph560.bnr.ca>
	<1992Dec21.194142.32300@eecs.nwu.edu>
Reply-To: kiravuo@hila.hut.fi
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Computing Center

In article <1992Dec21.194142.32300@eecs.nwu.edu> travis@eecs.nwu.edu (Travis Marlatte) writes:
>I was told during training and tell my classes that one can pass
>an accident by and not get involved. Once one approaches the accident
>and begins to give aid, then that person is bound to follow through.

In Finland you are required to assist in an emergancy and if you do
not, you may face fines or prison.

I have neve heard about a law suit in a first aid case in this
country. 
--
Timo Kiravuo, kiravuo@hut.fi
Helsinki University of Technology, Computer Center, Finland
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: marlatt@spot.Colorado.EDU (Stuart W. Marlatt)
Subject: Re: other bashing.
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 16:06:28 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.182636.28571@nas.nasa.gov> eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya) writes:
>In article <1992Nov15.201031.9408@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>
>marlatt@spot.Colorado.EDU (Stuart W. Marlatt) writes:
>P.S. Sending more SB's to Ilana today.
I'll look her up this week. You must have found a magic SB fountain...
[...]
>>        Mark Twain (Clemens).
see Ascent, III.

>>        Norbert Casteret.
>
>We don't have NC, and I don't have time to look up his writings.
>But if you could elaborate.
Thought he might get by you. Classic accounts of early French caving.
_The Years Under the Earth_, _The Darkness Under the Earth_, others.

>  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
>Seeking Books to buy:	Bongard, Pattern Recognition
>			3 down 1 to go.
Have you checked with Spartan Books?


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do I dare                                                                 
Disturb the universe?                                                     
In a minute there is time                                                 
For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse.                  
  --T.S. Eliot,  The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock                      
..............................................................................
s.w. marlatt, <><  &  *(:-)               Prov. 25.2
University of Colorado:                   marlatt@spot.Colorado.edu  492-3939
National Center for Atmospheric Research: marlatt@neit.cgd.ucar.edu  497-1669
------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini)
Subject: Re: GPS, PC or non-PC?
Organization: Unocal Corporation
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 16:35:07 GMT

In article <725071189.AA06844@urchin.fidonet.org> Carl.Seiler@f10.n106.z1.fidonet.org (Carl Seiler) writes:
>In a msg on <Dec 21 15:01>, Anmar Caves writes:
>Could someone please explain to a newbie exactly what GPS stands for?

Global Positioning System.  Twenty or so satellites broadcast their position
and a time.  Your local box can give a location from 200 m to 0.1 m
depending on many factors.  Price still above $1000 per box.  May become
a "personal location system" for backcountry use when price drops.
From: AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: travels on the backways
Date: 30 Dec 1992 08:51:46 -0800
Organization: Stanford University
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: morrow.stanford.edu

In article <1hqbjkINN72n@jethro.Corp.Sun.COM>,
ruthb@hotspring.sitka.sun.com (Ruth Blackburn) writes:
>
>
>I believe all people should be able to enjoy the outdoors, though there are
>places that the physically challenged might find very difficult to negotiate.
>I know that here in the SF Bay Area some trails are wheelchair accessible,
>and I have seen at least one such up in the foothills of the Sierra.  I wouldn't
>think it's possible to make all trails accessible, though, due to difficulty and
>costs, but I think having trails designed specifically for folks physically
>impaired would be beneficial.
>
>BTW, I don't venture far into the backcountry, tending to be a car-camping type.
>Those who regularly pack into the wilderness might view this issue differently.
>Also, I don't let my dog chase the wildlife, much as she would like to :-).
>
This is one of the circumstances where I am willing to accept pack
animals and/or horses on the trail with me.  (not that it does me
much good "not to accept them"!)  I also recognize that thae same
conditions that may preclude longer hikes may also prevent travel by
horseback though not neccessarily.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: RZAA80@email.sps.mot.com (Jim Chott)
Subject: Re: Slot canyon hiking
Followup-To: rec.backcountry
Organization: Motorola SPS
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 17:22:38 GMT

The Buckskin Gulch on the Arizona/Utah state line is a pretty neat
hike.  We used Wire Pass to get in and had to turn sideways with
packs on to get through.  Comes out at the Paria river.  I've seen
pictures of Antelope canyon in N. Arizona which were impressive but
haven't done it yet.

> Enjoy and leave no trace of your visit.



Jim Chott                            85 Toyota 4WD pickup
rzaa80@email.sps.mot.com             72 LeMans Sport Convertible
Tempe, Arizona
From: ruthb@hotspring.sitka.sun.com (Ruth Blackburn)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: travels on the backways
Date: 29 Dec 92 20:14:44 GMT
Reply-To: ruthb@hotspring.sitka.sun.com
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: hotspring.sitka.sun.com

In article 24537@jetsun.weitek.COM, nadja@jetsun.weitek.COM (Nadja Adolf) writes:
>Having reached the age and stage of decreptitude where long hikes are no
>longer an option, I've taken to using a two wheel drive pickup and a light
>weight hard sided travel trailer to go bounding down abandoned logging roads
>and other remote spots. My consort and I have found a number of neat
>places for people who aren't up to more than a mile or two of hiking or
>aren't up to hiking at all.
>
>I guess I'd like some discussion of access for the physically impaired. I'm
>sort of tired of folks who let their dogs chase the wildlife, then get
>annoyed with us because we have used an existing road and an existing 
>pull off spot to leave a trailer. The idea that the outdoors is only for
>the physically perfect bothers me. Please don't tell me to try conditioning -
>we both have joint problems that restrict our activities. 
>
>Feedback?


I believe all people should be able to enjoy the outdoors, though there are 
places that the physically challenged might find very difficult to negotiate.
I know that here in the SF Bay Area some trails are wheelchair accessible, 
and I have seen at least one such up in the foothills of the Sierra.  I wouldn't 
think it's possible to make all trails accessible, though, due to difficulty and 
costs, but I think having trails designed specifically for folks physically
impaired would be beneficial.

BTW, I don't venture far into the backcountry, tending to be a car-camping type.
Those who regularly pack into the wilderness might view this issue differently.
Also, I don't let my dog chase the wildlife, much as she would like to :-).

Ruth
ruthb@sitka.sun.com
From: greeven@clipper.ingr.com (John Greeven)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Travel in Chile and the Antarctic
Date: 31 Dec 92 18:11:24 GMT
Organization: Intergraph Advanced Processor Division - Palo Alto, CA

I just returned from a trip to Chile and would like to exchange ideas
about travel in these areas via email.

John
greeven@clipper.ingr.com
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: Herberg_David@tandem.com (David Herberg)
Subject: Re: Antelope Canyon, Arizona
Organization: Tandem Computers Inc.
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 01:37:07 GMT

In article <29026@oasys.dt.navy.mil> mulvihil@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Lawrence 
Mulvihill) writes:
> I'm looking for information on Antelope (Corkscrew?)Canyon.
> Has anyone out there done it?  How's access?  How dangerous?
> Etc.

I "did" it last year.  It's three miles away from the highway up an open 
wash.  I took 4wd as do most visitors and drove right up to it.  The slot 
is no more than 150 yards long.  Upstream, the slot opens up to a wide 
wash again.  It isn't dangerous at all, since you can leave inside of one 
minute.  Flash floods aren't the raging wall of water roaring across a 
hitherto dry washbed.  The water starts rising first.  Since Antelope 
Canyon is normally bone dry, leave when the first water arrives.  Even 
when the slot is filled with floodwater, the wash below is so wide that 
you will have no trouble driving back out.

A permit from the Navajos is required to visit the site, which is on their 
private property.  There is a trading post a couple of miles s.e. of Page 
where the permits are available.  Last I checked, it was $7 for 7 day 
limit.  Antelope Canyon suffers from overvisitation, graffiti, and trash.

David Herberg, Herberg_David@tandem.com
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: UC512052@mizzou1.missouri.edu (David K. Drum)
Subject: Backpacker Magazine Issues 1-17 for sale
Organization: University of Missouri
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 02:25:08 GMT
X-Posted-From: mizzou1.missouri.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

Hi all,
 
I have copies 1-17 of the BackPacker magazine in excellent condition for
sale to the best offer. Purchaser pays for shipping, depending on where
you live, it will cost $4.00 to $8.00.
 
Please respond via email.
 
Regards,
 
David K. Drum uc512052@mizzou1.missouri.edu
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: bohack@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (edward.e.harstead)
Subject: Re: Winter Boots
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 19:01:37 GMT

In article <1992Dec30.133558@roper.mc.ti.com> a722756@roper.mc.ti.com (W. Donald Rolph) writes:
>
>There are also a family of boots technically called vaporbarrier boots, with the
>Korea Boot (black - felt insulation) and the Bunny boot (white - foam insulation)
>being classic members.  These boots are superb for snowshowing and winter hiking
>at sub zero temperatures

I have looked for the Korea boot (aka Mickey Mouse boots) and have
not been able to find them at any Army/Navy store in NYC or northern NJ.

Does anyone know if they are still available?

Ed Harstead
From: edb@hpgrla.gr.hp.com (Ed Beshore)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 21:08:52 GMT
Subject: Re: Fleece jacket recommendation
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Greeley, CO
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry

I have the NF Denali fleece jacket.  The taslan patches on the shoulders and the
breast resists wear from pack straps. (Fleece pills a lot).  The
NF also has a large left vertical breast pocket that is great for gloves
or glasses.

Campmoor has the NF jacket at a pretty good discount at $135.  Buy a
Ear Gear ear warmer for $10 and they will take another 10% off both items for
(135+10)*.9 = $130.50 for both.

Finally, the NF jacket has snaps to hold it securly inside the NF shell,
keeping the shell from riding up over the fleece jacket.

--------------------------------------------------------------
Edward Beshore                     
Hewlett Packard Company            Voice:       (303) 350-4826
700 71st Avenue                    FAX:         (303) 350-4675
Greeley Colorado, 80634            email: edb@hpgrla.gr.hp.com
--------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: molnar@Bisco.CAnet.CA (Tom Molnar)
Subject: Re: Fleece jacket recommendation
Organization: UTCS Campus Access
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 17:45:41 GMT

In article <1992Dec20.181028.21908@news.columbia.edu> dth2@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (David T Ho) writes:
# I would like to purchase a fleece jacket to zip into my North Face
# shell.  I was considering between North Face and Patagoina.  (both
# will zip into my shell) Anyone have any suggestions?  Thanks.

I'm embarrased to admit I have too many several fleece tops, including
TNF Denali (polartec 300 wt), Dhulagari (sp?) (poalartec 200 wt), MEC
(polartec 300 and 200), patagonia baby retro, synchilla snap-T and, sigh,
other patagonia fleece pieces...

I've found the warmest to be the patagonia baby retro, but I don't like
the fit too much.  The fabric doesn't stretch.  When I need insulation
of that calibre I put up with the fit (it's a bit loose).  My favourite
warm top is the patagonia synchilla snap-T.  The fabric is better than
the malden mills polartec 300 (used by TNF and many others) in that it
is warmer, and more pill resitstant, and more resistant to picking up
body odors after long sweaty days.  The fit is perfect for me (but that
doesn't mean much to you!).  The TNF jackets aren't as warm as I'd
like, but they are well made and include a draft flap.  The mid-weight
Dhulagari (sp?) is cut rather large, too large for my likes actually.

An interesting fleece top is the new glissade from patagonia.  It combines the
heavy baby retro pile and a lightweight nylon cover for wind resistance and
is reversible.  It's the one fleece piece I don't have...(yet).

Patagonia is pricey, but I rarely pay list for any piece I buy.  Once you
own it, there's a very good chance you won't regret paying for it.  It is
hard to plunk the money down to get the first piece though.

Regards,
Tom
From: myersdr@epcinext3.cern.ch (David Myers)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Lyme Disease E-mail Network...
Date: 21 Dec 92 13:56:01 GMT
Organization: CERN European Lab for Particle Physics

Following the idea that prevention is better than cure, it would interest me to  
know if information is available about the (European) areas in which the vector  
is endemic. Is the tick sensitive to temperature, less likely to be encountered  
above a certain altitude, at a certain time of year, etc? Also, what are the  
initial symptoms?

Thanks for info.
David Myers
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: czichon@psyche.csc.ti.com (Cary Czichon)
Subject: Re: Invitation from Rockport
Keywords: Rockport, Kilamanjaro
Organization: Texas Instruments
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 17:59:02 GMT

In article <1992Dec21.113525.3018@ms.uky.edu> cyeomans@ms.uky.edu (Charles Yeomans) writes:
>In article <1992Dec20.025713.24993@news.media.mit.edu> geek@media.mit.edu (Chris Schmandt) writes:
>>In article <1992Dec15.230425.2793@csc.ti.com> czichon@psyche.csc.ti.com (Cary Czichon) writes:
>>>Is their training program supposed to allow acclimatization to 19,340 feet in
>>>one day?  Amazing!  Can you spell cerebral edema?  I knew you could.

>>I'm not defending Rockport's one day "assault" on kilimanjaro, but the
>>reading that I did after getting pulmonary edema in Colorado was that
>>it usually takes 2-3 days before edema sets in seriously.  In my case,
>>I ascended from sea level, where I live, to about 12K feet the same
>>day, and remained near that altitude for 4 nights; my symptoms got
>>pronounced only on the last night.

>>But I'm not a doctor nor an expert.

>Isn't this how, for example, Messner climbed Denali in a day?  As I
>undersatnd it, he went up to 14,000 ft and hung out for several days,
>then went to the summit and back in a day.

Everyone reacts to large changes in altitude differently.  Developing great
cardiovascular strength doesn't guarantee immunity to AMS.  By going from
Kilimanjaro's base to its summit in one day and staying there through
the night, most people would develop severe AMS or worse.  An interesting
book on altitude sickness is GOING HIGHER by Charles S. Houston, M.D.  Lots
of interesting stories.

Cary Czichon
czichon@csc.ti.com
From: bob.kenyon@freddy.ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Bob Kenyon) 
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Winter Boots
Date: 26 Dec 92 10:09:00 GMT
Reply-To: bob.kenyon@freddy.ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Bob Kenyon) 
Distribution: world
Organization: Freddy's Place BBS - Edmonton, AB - 403-456-4241

To: au143@cleveland.Freenet.Edu

MNBK>        There has been some discussion about winter boots.
MNBK>I'd like to ask (again !) if the concept of RUBBER BOOT is
MNBK>totally unknown to Americans, etc. !

MNBK>        In Finland, we have these winter rubber boots with
MNBK>extra warm soles and thick removable felt shoe inside. A little
MNBK>bit heavy, perhaps, but keep your feet warm - and dry, in all
MNBK>weathers. Easy to get dry, as you can pull the felt shoe out of the
MNBK>boot. Durable. And can be used as ski boots.

MNBK>--
MNBK>----- Mikael Niku [a.k.a. Turilas]
MNBK>***** E-Mail: au143@cleveland.freenet.edu
MNBK>----- SnailMail: Puodinmaentie 23, 91900 Liminka, FINLAND
MNBK>*********************************************************

I've seen rubber boots worn, but they always seem to have a problem with
condensation build-up. My favourite choice, unless in heavy snow or very
cold conditions, is my regular leather hiking boot. I make sure they
have a good coating of "Snow Seal", and also wear a pair of gaiters.

Works good, and quite warm.

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Bob Kenyon                             FREDDY'S PLACE BBS
Edmonton, AB. Canada                   (403)456-4241

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////


 * SLMR 2.1a * Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (P)anic
                                                      
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: GPS, PC or non-PC?
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 92 21:50:17 GMT
Distribution: usa

Sorry Greg ill and out on vacation.
One does not discuss certain operational aspects of weapons systems in
the clear.  You can easily contact firms like NF, Black Diamond, Alpine
Research (Ramer), they all have DoD contracts.  All of them will tell you
either
	1) yes, we have such contracts but we are not at liberty to
	discuss them.
or
	2) Go away.
Then so are Apple IIs used by the DoD and Apple will give you an either 1) or
2).  Some stuff can be used out of the box, other stuff requires mods.

You can contact the Pentagon via phone or mail and ask them for unclassified
uses of GPS and the history of its development (interesting) or backpacking,
camping, or climbing gear.  The number via the federal telephone system is
	FTS 545-6700
Ask for a public information officer.
Some where around here is the Zip code......

If guilt is on one's conscious:
Why one of the most interesting spinoffs came from determining trajectories
of artillery shells.
Merely asking the question here biases the sample of readers.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Associate Editor, Software and Publication Reviews
  Scientific Programming
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Seeking Books to buy:	Bongard, Pattern Recognition
			3 down 1 to go.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: rlm@sunlight.Physics.UIowa.Edu (Robert Mutel)
Subject: AAS Phoenix Meeting: Anyone for squash or tennis? 
Organization: Department of Physics and Astronomy, University of Iowa
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 16:20:04 GMT

This is only peripherally astronomical, but...

I'll be attending the AAS meeting in Phoenix from 2-6 January and would like to
schedule some squash games (the Hilton claims to have squash courts). Failing
that I would also like a few games of tennis (I am a reasonable squash player
but
mediocre at tennis). Anyone interested?

-- 
Robert Mutel
Department of Physics and Astronomy
University of Iowa
Iowa City IA 52242

Telephone: 319-335-1950      FAX: 319-335-1753
Email: rlm@sunlight.physics.uiowa.edu  (internet) 
       iowa::rlm (span)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry