HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Audrey
Date: 25 Jan 1993 14:05:45 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <C1FJn2.4oI@hpuerca.atl.hp.com> 
mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Mike Reaser) writes:
> In <1k1k5dINNh1m@mizar.usc.edu>
> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
> >What, may I ask, do Academy Awards have to do with great
> >acting?  For that matter, what do Academy Awards have to
> >do with any kind of acting?
>
> But Arne, just remember some of the greatest film actors of all time:

[list deleted]

You can add to that list the names Greta Garbo and
Marlene Dietrich.

> And how many competitive, non-honorary Oscars, in total, did these 
> performers win as a group?
>
> Zero.

Acting-category Academy Awards have almost nothing to do 
with acting.  Was John Wayne really *that* fabulous in
"True Grit"?  Was Katharine Hepburn all *that* remarkable
in "Lion in Winter"?  Elizabeth Taylor in "Butterfield 8"?

> All of the appeared in films eligible for Academy Award consideration,
> and in fact several were nominated multiple times -- Thelma Ritter,

I *adore* Thelma Ritter.

> for example, was nominated four (or possibly five, I'm going from
> memory) years in a row in the early 1950's -- but _NONE_ of them ever
> was awarded that little statue "with no genitalia" (as Dustin Hoffman
> declared when he won for _Kramer vs. Kramer_).

Dustin Hoffman.  Blech.

> So _OF COURSE_ a multiple winner of Oscars must be a "great actress".
>
> Or, possibly as you stated Arne, a "great movie star", as were Bogart,
> Ingrid Bergman, and Clark Gable.

Well, there are great movie stars who are great actors.  There
are also great movie stars who are great movie actors.  (Garbo
is preeminent here.)  And, of course, there are also great movie 
stars who are, by any objective standard, *terrible* actors.  (Joan 
Crawford comes to mind.)  But the Academy Awards have nothing to
do with the quality of an actor's performance.  Never have (do
you really think Luise Rainer was *that* magnificent?), and
never will.

Arne


Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mjt@world.std.com (Mitch J Trachtenberg)
Subject: Gays in Military: Powell's phone number
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Distribution: soc
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 15:10:28 GMT

The New York Times today reported that the Pentagon had received
about 20 calls against the ban on gays in the military, 600 for.

The phone number for General Powell's office at the Pentagon
is 703 697-9121, and the Pentagon switchboard is 703 545 6700.

An argument that may be more persuasive than "you're a bigoted 
jerk," is that the military's commander in chief, voted in by
the nation's civilian population, should be allowed to make 
policy without insubordination by his subordinates.

Mitch Trachtenberg
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Movie stars
Date: 27 Jan 1993 12:23:41 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <1993Jan27.154411.15437@sun0.urz.uni-heidelberg.de> 
gsmith@clio.iwr.uni-heidelberg.de (Gene W. Smith) writes:
> In article <1k1k5dINNh1m@mizar.usc.edu> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu
> (adolphson) writes:
> >I think Katharine Hepburn is a great movie star.  That I
> >don't particularly care for her is a failing, I suppose.
> >(That I can't stand Humphrey Bogart is a sign of my
> >good taste.) 
>
> It's a sign you don't respond to male icons in the same way you do
> female ones, I think. 

This is true, and it extends beyond iconic movie stars.
I vastly prefer the sound of a woman's singing voice --
in opera, jazz, pop, Broadway (no, I don't listen to 
rock at all) -- to a man's.

> Bogie is as iconic as Garbo, and it's kind of
> funny to see that you don't notice this.

I do recognize the fact that he's iconic.  I just don't
respond to him *at all*.  I think he's unwatchable.

> Now, if you want to complain about Jimmy Stewart or Gary Cooper or
> (God help us) the Duke, go ahead.

I wouldn't complain (all that much) about Jimmy Stewart,
and the only complaints I have about Cooper (one of the
most stunningly beautiful men who ever lived) have to do 
with his reactionary politics.  John Wayne is a complete 
mystery to me.  Anyway, I *do* respond to Gary Cooper, Cary 
Grant, John Gilbert, and Valentino in exactly the same way -- 
if not with the same fervor -- that I respond to Garbo and
Dietrich and Davis.  

Arne
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: dem@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Doron Meyer)
Subject: Re: Tips for coming out to friends?
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 13:15:49 GMT

In article <1993Jan24.065752.2143@macc.wisc.edu> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>
>In article <1jrdj1INNe5a@mizar.usc.edu>
>adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (Arne Adolphson) writes:
>
>>I read these things and I wonder if I grew up on Mars.  Is
>>being gay *such* a big deal?  I just can't believe it is.
>
>I read these things and conclude you *did* grow up on Mars,
>hon.  Ava rara that you are, it seems not to have been an
>especially big deal for you.  But it is for most people.
>Most people are miles from anyone or anything, both
>literally and figuratively.

When I first read Arne's response, I was first upset at what
I considered its insensitivity.  But the more I thought about it,
the more I realized how right Arne is.  It *isn't* a big deal.
But it certainly seems like it, and to a lot of other people,
it *is* a big deal.  Just ask CFV why they're going to all this trouble.

This doesn't mean everything is peachy keen.  It's not.  But, like
a lot of changes for teenagers, it can seem like the whole world 
has flipped on its ear.  Not everyone has known or let themselves
know since an early age.

>>It really isn't a big deal.  Oh sure, it seems like it's a
>>huge thing, but who the fuck cares any more?
>
>Well, the person who's asking for support in this instance
>has told us he's living with two clearly homophobic
>roommates who are already hassling him and he isn't even out
>to them.  So I would say he cares, and maybe with good
>reason.  I don't think you can in good conscience just advise
>a stranger across the country to throw all caution to the
>winds.  Doron has to live with the consequences of his
>actions, and since we can't promise to be there for him when
>the chips are down, I think he may know his local conditions
>best.  Fortunately, better support than he's been having is
>available in New Jersey, and I think he's starting to access
>it.

Umm, Jess... I think you're confusing my thread and someone elses.  I
live in a single, thank god, nice and small and *my* *own*..  Of
course, there are a lot of people in my dorm that are homophobic, but
there are a lot who aren't.  And, except for one friend who I told the
other day, no one has the first clue.  It went well, despite my bungling.
I suppose that's Arne's point.. if it doesn't go well, it's *their* fault
and they don't matter anyways.  I can agree, but around this time
when everything is changing regardless, to lose people who you
thought were your friends is devastating.

The other thread, about the guy with two homophobic roomates, is very
scary.  I thank my lucky stars I'm not in his shoes.  I'm still
in the closet, and will be for at least until college.  Whatever
problems I have for now are with myself, not anyone else.

Doron
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: gnn@cs.vu.nl (Guest GNN)
Subject: Re: safe sex question
Organization: Fac. Wiskunde & Informatica, VU, Amsterdam
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 12:15:37 GMT

fjvwing@cs.vu.nl (FJ!!) writes:

>Honey, I may not be a pro, but I know what they like. Give em the full
>show.

OK, I can't help it.  The phrase you're looking for is, "Let
go of my ears, I know what I'm doing!" :->

Now, back to your regularly scheduled program.

Dag,
George
From: drp@dosbears.UUCP (David R. Preston)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: ST:TNG actors
Date: 23 Jan 93 21:21:48 GMT
Reply-To: drp@dosbears.uucp
Organization: DosBears

In article <1993Jan18.225036.13936@Princeton.EDU> spencer@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (S. Spencer Sun) writes:
>
>Brent Spiner doesn't look all that bad, when he's not Data
>
>Anyone heard his album?  Yes, he _sings_!

I hope he sings better than Shatner and Nimoy did on their
albums....

--
         David R. Preston   drp@dosbears.uucp dosbears@netcom.com
              Information gladly given but safety requires
               the avoidance of unnecessary conversation.
            D. R. Preston 584 Castro St. #614 SF CA 94114 USA
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rizzoe@FASECON.ECON.NYU.EDU (Emily Rizzo)
Subject: Re: URGENT: Gay Military ban Action
Organization: New York University
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 21:59:09 GMT

In article <9301252112.AA26115@client.its.rpi.edu> buckmr@rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire) writes:
>Sub:    URGENT! Military Ban Action
>Many citizens of the US are sending messages by phone and mail to the White
>House urging President Clinton to NOT lift the ban on gays and lesbians in the
>military.  It is essential that our voices in support of ending the 50 year ban
>are heard:
>IMMEDIATELY DO THE FOLLOWING:
>1.  Telephone the White House at 202-456-1111 and tell them to lift the ban
>now.  If you get a busy signal,  keep trying.  It doesn't count unless you
>connect.

The phones were busy but I was able to fax with no problem:
The fax number at the White House is 202-456-2883.

Emily
From: wilsonscottr@bvc.edu
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Hair Stylists
Date: 24 Jan 93 17:52:16 CST
Organization: Buena Vista College, Storm Lake, IA

In article <93021.103929ASG102@psuvm.psu.edu>, The Dreamer <ASG102@psuvm.psu.edu> 
suggests:

>      Well, it depends if you are out to him (assuming that your stylist is
> a he).

Why, pray tell, would I want to flirt with a **WOMAN**?

> With mine, I started by wearing my freedom rings in plain view.

Did that already.
  
> Usually it's enough of a signal
> to tell him that you are interested.
>
Here's what happened (tell me if I signalled loud enough or if I didn't 
pick up on his signal):

One of my gay friends referred him to me, so I went and made an appointment 
(wearing my freedom rings).

Got there early for my appointment and was talking with one of the female 
hair stylist who couldn't remember how many guys were in the Village 
People.  I told her and find out she wants to do YMCA for her friend's 
birthday party in April.  She asked me if I'd be interested in helping, so 
I volunteered.

She said to leave my name and number for her before I left so she could get 
a hold of me.

So I do the small talk bit with David (the hair stylist) and then we start 
talking about the bars in the area and how difficult it is to meet gay 
people in the town that I live in (a small city, very religious, 
conservative, and very closeted).  There's a city 30 miles away that is 
home of the Univeristy of Arkansas that I visit incessently to visit all my 
gay friends (and get on the Net).  He says that there are a lot of men in 
my town and that he'd be happy to give me a call and let me know of any 
social functions that popped up.  He also talked about this idea he's been 
thinking about, inviting a group of men over for a Saturday brunch.  He 
said he'd keep me in mind if I was interested.

So my hair got cut, I paid (and tipped) him, and gave him my name and 
number to give to the other hair stylist, and he gives me his name and 
number.

Suggestions?

-- 
       Scott Wilson       wilsonscottr@bvc.edu	

	"When a straight guy meets a gay guy, right away he thinks to 
	 himself that the gay guy wants to suck his dick.  I say, `Doll,
	 don't flatter yourself!'"  -Scott Valentine
Organization: Central Michigan University
Date: Wednesday, 27 Jan 1993 15:30:06 EST
From: <347NGLA@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: QUESTION ABOUT ALT.SEX.MOTSS

Hi,

I won't take up too much of your time, I hope.  I was just hoping
for some information and possible help.  Does anyone get ALT.SEX.MOTSS?
It isn't available for me and I was just wondering if it's possible
to forward it?  I would appreciate any help, thank you!  John
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: tdbear@dvorak.amd.com (Thomas D. Barrett)
Subject: Re: "No Wavering on Gay Soldiers"
Organization: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.; Austin, Texas
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 15:04:48 GMT

In article <=5j3jfh@rpi.edu> buckmr@vccsouth16.its.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire) writes:
>Cool beans! But I'm STILL curious about whether the Executive Order will cover
>anything else but the Armed Forces? I mean, the FBI and CIA still discriminate,
>don't they?

Well, according to my one on ones with the HR people at the CIA and
NSA they do not discriminate, but from experience in such matters I
know that what that means is that they value the "opinion" of their
security investigators and depending on the "opinion" of said
investigator concerning gays and lesbians, one might be disqualified
for a number of different reasons (none of which would be
homosexuality).


-- 
|Tom Barrett (TDBear), Sr. Engineer|tom.barrett@amd.com|v:512-462-6856 |
|AMD PCD MS-520 | 5900 E. Ben White|Austin, TX  78741  |f:512-462-5155 |
|"No is yes, And we're all free" ---Tracy Chapman, "Why?"              |
|My views are my own and may not be the same as the company of origin  |
From: ac999273@umbc.edu (ac999273)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Clinton Names White House E-Mail Director
Date: 26 Jan 1993 20:09:47 -0500
Organization: Univ. of MD, Baltimore County
NNTP-Posting-Host: umbc5.umbc.edu

In article <1993Jan26.235017.1301@PacBell.COM> rjwill6@pbsdts.sdcrc.pacbell.com (Rod Williams) writes:
>
>
>From Communications Daily, 1/19/93...
>
>    The Clinton Administration will become the first presidency
>    to have an official responsible for making official
>    Presidential documents widely available using electronic
>    distribution.  Jonathan Gill has been named Director of
>    via such electronic venues as CompuServe, GEnie and Internet.

	Please find us the Internet Address, somone.....
It would be fun  to E-mail the pres. don't you think?  Oh, and not to
mention useful...



--



Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: MARKD@urjwc.ucla.edu ("Davis, Mark A.")
Subject: subscribe
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 15:37:00 PST
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Please subscribe me.

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas)
Subject: Re: Is Dan Quayle a Twinkie?
Organization: Gordian; Costa Mesa, CA
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 18:13:27 GMT

In article <C15qq9.40t@fig.citib.com>, glp@fig.citib.com (Greg Parkinson) writes:
> I was writing about someone particularly vile - 
> Michael, did you ever meet someone named "Magpie"?

  Yes. Not my cup o' tea though. He of course typifies
the West Street Beach set. Wasn't he the one with the
little radio station "KGAY"?

> As to the spiteful part, perhaps I was suffering
> from momentary Melmania, although it's more likely
> that I wrote from the perspective of how I felt at
> the time I knew these people and not as my current
> tolerant, forgiving, and understanding self.

  Oh dear. Vivid memories of distressful situations
will do that for you. I really don't understand why
you were so unhappy at that time. That set of people
wasn't the *only* clique around. Of course, I'm
not particularly socially motivated so I doubt that
I could understand why this might be important to
anybody.
 
> Besides, Mike, these people were and are much more
> *your* crowd.  I had to flee Southern California;
> you seem to like it there.

  Oh, I wouldn't call it *my* crowd. I would certainly
partake in some of the luscious nubiles that were produced
out of that crowd; but we were never, well, on the same
wavelength. I could never get beyond a yawn with disco
music (and it's little dog Madonna too), and honestly
the beach bores me.
  But home is where you make it. I have my list of gripes
about living here, as anybody would, but they seem to be
outweighed by other circumstances. I really can't imagine
living in a city (especially like NYC. Gad, can you imagine?
My apprentice assholeship would probably become a full 
professorship within months) and life is, well, comfortable
here. 
  Besides, I met Todd here and have been happy ever since.
It's probably just me, but I find cities to be less conducive
to forming long term relationships. Back when I was making
a lot of the commitments that have cemented my feet here,
that was exactly what I was looking for. So it wasn't
really that I had any great love of being here, it's just
that I thought my odds were better by being here...
-- 

		Michael Thomas	(mike@gordian.com)
	"I don't think Bambi Eyes will get you that flame thrower..."  
		-- Hobbes to Calvin
		USnail: 20361 Irvine Ave Santa Ana Heights, Ca,	92707-5637
		PaBell: (714) 850-0205 (714) 850-0533 (fax)
From: kmeyer@aero.org (Kraig R. Meyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Fighting fundies
Date: 22 Jan 93 14:37:06
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: solarium.aero.org
In-reply-to: mchaffee@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu's message of Fri, 22 Jan 1993 02:06:47 GMT

mchaffee@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Real Life?!?! HA!!) said:

> I was just sitting here, reading soc.motss, and I have noticed a
>number of men- tions of the same thing: These fundie groups that are
>trying to make our lives a hell are "non-profit"!  Now, I may be wrong
>here, but is it not required for a non-profit organization to abstain
>from any political activity?  I'm probably being naive here, but
>couldn't a few calls to attorney generals regarding the activities of
>trash like OCA, CFV, etc. possibly result in some investigation?  At
>the least, if they were questioned or accused on this, they might have
>to divert some of their funds to staying in operation.

The IRS has investigated one of Lou Sheldon's organizations (probably
the Traditional Values Coalition).  I don't understand what happened,
but my understanding is that a GLB* group notified the IRS, the IRS
investigated, but such investigations aren't of a public nature.  I
could be wrong though.

The definition of "political activities" is rather unclear to me,
anyway.  CSW/LA (LA Gay Pride) is a nonprofit organization prohibited
from political activities.  Our legal counsel advised us that we 
could NOT lend office space to people collecting signatures for a gay
rights initiative, but that it is OK for us to send money to LIFE
Lobby, the Gay rights lobbying organization in Sacramento.

A smart group (for or against any issue) would have a non-profit
organization incorporated for lobbying and most activities, and a
for-profit one incorporated just for doing those few things that
qualify as "political activities."

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
| The opinions expressed above are my own and do not necessarily          |
| represent those of The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA.           |
|									  |
| Kraig R. Meyer		   	                 kmeyer@aero.org  |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: brent@syacus.acus.oz.au (Brent Davies)
Subject: Re: Canines and Felines (was Re: Smoke in gay bars)
Organization: Australian Centre for Unisys Software, Melbourne
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 22:41:27 GMT

anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:

>I'd only admit it here, where nobody's listening, and I
>really disapprove of single-issue politics, but actually I
>voted for Socks, not Bill.  If only I could get Stuart to
>sneak over here (he'd have to, I think Barb would not
>approve) and get stoned and we could meow-mix it up a
>little, oh baby.  My kitty attacks him, which is something I
>would like to do m'self.  She has taste.  He was a varsity
>gymnast here.

*WICKED* boy! Nevertheless, cats' taste is not to be discounted.

I voted for Socks too. Once I realized we could have a First Cat, my ballot
was pre-marked.

-- 
 _--_|\    Brent Davies                    ACSnet:    brent@syacus.acus.OZ
/      \   Aust Centre for Unisys SW       Internet:  brent@syacus.acus.OZ.AU
\_.--._/   700 Blackburn Rd                Voice:     +61-3-550-1640
      v    Melbourne, Australia 3168       FAX:       +61-3-550-1599
From: timbomb@cs.uq.oz.au (Tim Mansfield)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Pro-Queer violence and Re: Starting Trouble: Homophobia at
Date: 25 Jan 93 02:16:23 GMT
Reply-To: timbomb@cs.uq.oz.au

In <1993Jan22.120336.15247@spdcc.com> joe@spdcc.com (Joseph Francis) writes:

>In article <16B5D7469.TMCCART3@ua1vm.ua.edu> TMCCART3@ua1vm.ua.edu (Tracey McCartney) writes:
>>Y'know, I'd never read much of this guy's claptrap, and I just assumed the
>>claptrap he was posting was crossposted from another group a la KKKra*m*r.
>>But careful examination of the header, which I normally strip off, shows
>>that he *hangs around here full time*! What's the male equivalent of a
>>fag hag?

>1) Fag Stag

Or around here, 

2) Fag Dag

(dag - n. Colloq. an odd or amusing person - Macquarie Dictionary 2 ed
1989)
--
Tim Mansfield                                         timbomb@cs.uq.oz.au
Dept of Comp Sci, Uni of Qld, Australia, 4072           +61 (0)7 365 2956
"Nothing is wrong with the idea that there would be a God...  
		who changes the water." mvs@softway.oz (Mark V. Shaney)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: msimpson@spdcc.com (Michael L. R. Simpson)
Subject: Re: Where is Ron Dellums? (was Re: Congressional Contacts...)
Followup-To: soc.motss
Organization: Custom Training Institute, Los Angeles CA
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 06:24:15 GMT

In article <1993Jan27.144356.13492@Princeton.EDU> 
	sbgreene@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Steven Greene) writes:

>Has anyone heard from Rep. Ronald Dellums, Mr. Liberal himself, the new
>chair of the House Armed Services Committee?  Why hasn't he had
>anything to say about lifting the military ban? 

There was a clip of Dellums on CNN this evening, arguing against the
ban.  Although it may have been to one of those notorious (near-) empty
House chambers.
-- 

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Pro-Queer violence
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 93 14:46:44 GMT


In article <18459@autodesk.COM> owen@autodesk.com (D. Owen
Rowley) writes:

>In article <1993Jan21.125633.6833@macc.wisc.edu>,
>anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:

>>I agreed with nearly everything else you said, but apart
>>from being short-lived, I don't think QN has anything in
>>common with the Cultural Revolution, neither in motive,
>>effect, nor historical significance.

>The things I see in common are methodological, and
>stylistic.

I see your point, but mine was that the parallel was
probably pretty loose.  Your main point -- short duration --
was not loose, of course.

>An emphasis on slogans and street action.  A tendency for
>high emotional involvement to push the boundarys of
>acceptable tactics, sometimes too far (ie: scapegoating,
>getting mired in process)

"Pushing the boundaries" in the instance of China's Cultural
Revolution is speaking lightly of murder, mayhem, the
wanton destruction of artifacts of high cultural value,
book-burning, and other fascist mob violence.  I'm glad that
Queer Nation was not parallel in any of those senses.

>I am very much in favor of QN, and feel that our movement
>towards equality is benefited by their timely existence.

I'm certainly with you on that one.

<> Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you mad.
<> -- Aldous Huxley
-- 
[Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin]
[Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson]
[Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888]
[---------> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <---------]
Newsgroups: soc.motss