HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: brianc@pdx.mentorg.com (Brian Caslis @ SST)
Subject: Re: 3.0 + Adobe Illustrator
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 22:41:11 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: mentor
Keywords: 
Followup-To: 

Humm, Illustrator is working fine on my machine with 3.0. I can
double click on .ai files and everything. I installed 3.0 from
scratch and then reinstalled Illustrator so maybe that is how
it needs to be done.

-- 
Brian Caslis		* Email: brianc@pdx.mentorg.com
Mentor Graphics Corp.	* 
8005 S.W. Boeckman Road	* Phone: (503)685-1404
Wilsonville, OR  97070	* Fax:   (503)685-1268
From: matthews@oberon.umd.edu (Mike Matthews)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.sysadmin
Subject: Solved -- renderman 'rpc not registered' problem
Date: 8 Nov 92 02:10:20 GMT
Originator: matthews@oberon.umd.edu

Thanks to Robert Nicholson and Andrew Stone (indirectly) for their
suggestions.  They probably solved one of my problems before I could get that
far.

Y'see, I had upgraded my old HD to 3.0 using UpgradePrep.  Then I got a new
HD and did a BuildDisk on it from the old HD.  Figuring I could just copy the
/private/etc directory over (which I did before from my 2.1 system to my
upgraded 3.0 system, at least the flat files) so I didn't have to reinstall
NetInfo.

Well, my inetd.conf file was missing this line, see.

renderd/1      dgram   rpc/udp wait root /usr/prman/rpc.renderd     rpc.renderd

Oooooooooooooooooooops.
------
Mike Matthews, matthews@oberon.umd.edu (NeXTmail accepted)
------
Operating-system software is the program that orchestrates all the basic
functions of a computer.
- The Wall Street Journal, Tuesday, September 15, 1987, page 40

Xref: sparky comp.sys.next.sysadmin:6417 comp.sys.next.misc:21869
From: hardy@golem.ps.uci.edu (Meinhard E. Mayer (Hardy))
Subject: Re: How to get AmS-TeX working (NS 3.0)
In-reply-to: ntomczak@vega.math.ualberta.ca's message of Tue, 10 Nov 1992 17:57:28 GMT
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.misc
Organization: Department of Physics, UC Irvine, CA 92717-4575, USA
Date: 11 Nov 92 05:08:40 GMT

One correction to Michal's posting: the ams-fonts, metafont sources,
etc can be obtained from e-math.ams.org, as well as from
labrea.stanford.edu, and other archives.


--
Hardy 
-----
Meinhard E. Mayer,  Department of Physics, UC Irvine 
e-mail: hardy@golem.ps.uci.edu (preferred) or MMAYER@UCI.BITNET
!!!! NO NEXTMAIL TO THESE ADDRESSES, PLEASE !!!!!
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.sysadmin
From: davecb@nexus.yorku.ca (David Collier-Brown)
Subject: Re: popd mail works? available?
Organization: York University
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 13:48:40 GMT

eps@futon.SFSU.EDU (Eric P. Scott) writes:
|None--we run POP servers for the benefit of Macintoys and other
|"inadequate" machines.  POP clients offer no advantage to us;
|NeXTs are perfectly happy NFS-mounting a mail spool, and a
|suitably hacked sendmail.cf takes care of things in the other
|direction.

  This probably should be crossposted to comp.mail.sendmail.flame (:-)), but
York is trying very hard to provide e-mail to a large community which is
**not** early-adopters, and so tend to regard sendmail's vagarities as the
actions of a **formally erronious** mail program.  That we have to use nfs
mounts and hacked sendmails is a positive disadvantage to us.
  We're a zmailer-and-pop site, and would prefer never to see another
copy of sendmail again.  Thus the question about proper NeXT pop clients.

--dave
-- 
David Collier-Brown,  | davecb@CCS.YorkU.CA | lethe!dave
72 Abitibi Ave.,      | Oh ye who lead / Take Heed,
Willowdale, Ontario,  | Blindness we may forgive,
CANADA. 416-223-8968  | But baseness we will smite.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.sysadmin
From: kickaha@siddhartha.math.lsa.umich.edu (Brian K. Boonstra)
Subject: Re: NewsReader/Moria for the NeXT
Reply-To: kickaha@siddhartha.math.lsa.umich.edu
Organization: University of Michigan Math Dept
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 21:28:34 GMT

In article <T8ZSBY3L@cc.swarthmore.edu> eoliver@acc.haverford.edu (Erik Oliver)  
writes:
> Lacking extremely productive things to leave our NeXT doing all day, we
> would like to get a _TEXTUAL_ newsreader for the NeXT, ie one that will

If you don't want to spend a lot of time compiling, there's a precompiled version  
of trn available by anonymous ftp from the purdue archives. If you want it to  
create the threadfiles, you'll need to delve into running the mthreads program.  
Otherwise, it should work right off the bat.

--
Brian K. Boonstra    (313) 994-0014,764-6046     kickaha@umich.edu

 "My strength is as the strength of ten because my code is pure."
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.sysadmin
From: jeffo@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (J.B. Nicholson-Owens)
Subject: /etc/mtab mode change with dismount
Reply-To: jeffo@uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 00:42:35 GMT

What is the correct way to keep the mode of /etc/mtab from changing to
root-only read and write when a volume is unmounted?  I inserted and
ejected a floppy disk on my 3.0 Cube and it changed the mode of
/etc/mtab so that nobody but root can use df(1) (the 'df' command).

On a related note, is the fix for this to make df(1) setuid root?  I'm
hesitant to do that, but if that's the only way to fix this problem...

And lastly, on a clean 3.0 system, what is the output of the following
command?:

ls -lg /bin/df /etc/mtab

Thanks.
-- 
-- Jeff (jeffo@uiuc.edu)
-- NeXTmail ok
From: root@noproblem.uchicago.edu (Operator)
Subject: Re: The Next NeXTWorld Expo
Reply-To: paul@netsys.com
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 19:04:28 GMT

In article <1992Oct30.172818.11210@seas.smu.edu> dleon@seas.smu.edu (David  
Leon) writes:
> In article <1992Oct29.161404.7301@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>  
coco@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (felix.lugo) writes:
> >In article <1992Oct29.140739.3997@lkba.uucp> uunet!lkba!lkb writes:
> >| In article <1992Oct27.212418.28817@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>  
> >| coco@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (felix.lugo) writes:
[CHOMP]

> >| Since the 1st one was on the West coast I suggest that the 2nd one be  
on the  
> >| East coast.  Say... Baltimore or Washington.

> >	no, No, NO!  Orlando.  (I live in Florida)   8^) 8^) 8^)
> >
> >--Felix
> 
> Hey why don't we copmromise a little here.  How about Dallas, TX? (where  
I
> am at)!!!
> 
> --David
> dleon@seas.smu.edu

A great location would be in Chicago.  NeXT has a decent size office in  
NBC tower and it  could draw it's ExPO help from there.  Chicago is one of  
the strongholds for NeXT and it is a very large market.  Chicago is in the  
midwest (more like mid east if you look at a map) and therefore a central  
expo place to draw from all parts of the U.S. (I guess folks in Europe  
could care less where it is held if it's in the U.S.) and the best reason  
of all... I live here and can't afford to fly to the west coast.


Paul R. Woods
SysCon
------------------------------------------------------------
Providing full internet access to all major cities (U.S.)
at a resonable cost.  
Sattelite Usenet feeds via Sattelite.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: byer@adobe.com (Scott Byer)
Subject: Re: DEC's alpha is "way fast" according to WSJournal
Reply-To: byer@adobe.com (Scott Byer)
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 17:48:33 GMT

Joseph R. Grace <JGrace@TetraSoft.com> writes

> The Wall Street Journal, Tuesday, November 10, 1992, page B4, John
> R.  Wilke, staff reporter of The Wall Street Journal.

> Digital's Alpha chip is a technical departure from much of the rest
> of the field, capable of swallowing 64 bits of data at once, or
> four billion times as much data as the 32-bit chips championed by
> competitors.

> WHOA --- that's way fast I/O!  (Me again.  :-) I guess it has a
> hidden mode which DEC has kept under wraps until the machines's
> introduction today.  Frankly I'm amazed.  :-)

Huh? Dec's Alpha architecture has always been 64 bits (as far as
I know).  And, yes, it does make for some wicked-fast I/O.

And 64 bits does give programs a big edge.  And they don't even
have to be changed that much to use it.  (Well, not if they were
designed right in the first place. ;-)

--
Scott Byer                             NeXTMail: byer@mv.us.adobe.com
Adobe Systems Incorporated               These are *my* opinions, and  
1585 Charleston Road, P.O. Box 7900        do not necessarily reflect
Mountain View, CA 94039-7900             the opinions of my employer.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: kline@cs.arizona.edu (Nick Kline)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: DEC's alpha is "way fast" according to WSJournal
Date: 13 Nov 92 03:59:31 GMT
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson

> byer@adobe.com (Scott Byer) writes:
>Charles William Swiger writes
>
>> I don't see a major revolution occurring with the transition between
>> 32-bit and 64-bit processors because the computer industry really
>> hasn't max'ed out the possibilities of 32-bit machines yet.  (How
>> many people do you know have complained that their machines can
>> only address 4 gigs at a time? Anyone ever seen a machine with more
>> than 4 gigs? Cray YMP's in your local supercomputing center, perhaps,
>> but not machines intended for the consumer market.)
>
>Actually, there are quite a few sites with large databases that
>now have to be split among several files.  With 64 bits of address
>space you can either fseek or memory-map that 20 Gigabyte database
>out on disk, no problem.
>


And I am working on a research project supporting time in temporal 
databases.  32 bits of resolution is simply not enough.  Using 64 bits
we can represent any time in the age of the universe (+- 20 billion years,
as we allow overlap), and higher resolutions (to the nano second) for all
of recorded human history.  This kind of thing is very slow on machines
that don't support 64 bits as builtin types.  

I want 64 bits yesterday.

-nick
---

	"This isn't a game; this is garbage collection!"
	      - heard during my Ph. D. Oral Qualifier

Nick Kline, Univ. of Az., Computer Science, Tucson, AZ 85721
(kline@cs.arizona.edu -or- {noao|allegra|cmcl2}!arizona!kline)
From: rsrodger@next10csc.wam.umd.edu (Robert Stephen Rodgers)
Subject: Really stupid Question: NS486 (WHEN??)
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 16:53:09 GMT



	Really dumb question.

	I hate to ask, but I understand that the Jan. '93
	date given in Byte Magazine some two months back is now considered
	invalid.

	I've heard rumors that it may be _June_ before NS486 is out,
	and I've hear others that it will be out on New Years (this
	particular rumor involved a NY party celebrating the release..)..

	So I'm ingnoring all of them at this point. 

	So what I'm asking is--does anyone know the lastest word
	from NeXT itself?  

	NS486:  When?

--
 Robert Stephen Rodgers  ||  rsrodger@wam.umd.edu  || IRC: Yamanari
 --------NeXTmail-preferred!!--------------------------------------
 Snout: O Bottom, thou art chang'd!  What do I see on thee?          
 Bottom: What do you see?  You see an ass-head of your own, do you?  
	Q:  What did the academic say to the art major?
	A:  "I'll take a big mac and fries."
From: szatrows@gandalf.rutgers.edu (John Kheit)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: NeXT Prices: They appear too high for me!
Date: 13 Nov 92 19:14:39 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

>It might be a good idea for NeXT and its CC's to listen a little to
>  what the users want and not to and not to tell them how to do their
> jobs.

Jeez, I dont remember telling anyone to do anything...?  And if thats
the way it came out, that wasn't my intent.

I guess I'll have to ad a disclaimer to my .sig that what I say is
only my opinion and not that of NeXT.  Even if that is whay I meant to
say i.e. that you should do your job the way I want you to do it, I
dont see how you can extrapolate that NeXT feels the same way?

At any rate I dont think that NeXTSTEP is just a pretty interface and
I DO believe if thats all you think it is then maybe you are missing
out on a lot of the wonderful things that make NeXTSTEP a great
environment.  If any environment is more than the sum of its parts its
NeXTSTEP and, yes its interface is pretty, but I truely believe that
there is much more to it than spiffy looking windows.
	So when I see some one pan NeXTSTEP and say the only value it
has is a pretty interface I want to go out and say there is more to NS
than a pretty interface.

	At anyrate my opologies if what I said came off as a flame, I
didnt intend on upseting anyone; I only wanted to comment that I think
that NS is much more than pretty icons (although I like the pretty
icons alot ;-)

later, John
-- 
NeXT Campus Consultant---Rutgers, the State University of New Jersey |my    %^)
John Kheit/monoChrome  |                                             |fried %-)
173 Westgate Drive     | Audix#5512                                  |brain %>)
Edison, NJ 08820-1163  | kheit@hangout.rutgers.edu,szatrows@gandalf.rutgers.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: mal2n@fulton.seas.Virginia.EDU
Subject: NeXTStep 486 Demo?
Organization: University of Virginia
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 02:01:21 GMT

Is there a demo of NeXTStep 486 that is about to be released?  If so where
can I get it?  Hopefully a FTP site......
I'm trying to justify upgrading several PCs to prepare for the release.
If there is a demo please let me know and tell me how to get it.

	Thanks!
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: dleon@seas.smu.edu (David Leon)
Subject: Re: NeXT edu prices go UP!
Organization: SMU School Of Engineering and Applied Science
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 21:46:09 GMT

The current move by NeXT re: raising prices for edu cunsumers (and in the 
case of SMU, removing their presence completely) strikes me as short-sighted.
It's funny how whenever a company needs to tighten its belt, it often
sacrifices its long-term viability.  Am I alone in thinking that edu consumers
eventually graduate and keep purchasing NeXT hardware/software?  Am I still
alone in thinking that training students with NeXT computers will help bolster
corporate sales later (or at least NOT training students with NeXT machines
with HURT corporate sales later)?  It's not like NeXT is spending a whole lot
on advertising and marketing (which is what edu sales do).  I'd really like
to know what is going on with this move.

dleon@seas.smu.edu
Standard disclaimers for the idiots that need them.
From: ttn@cs.tut.fi (Tero Nieminen)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: NeXT's binaries need a diet, or the solution to NeXT's multiprocessor problem.
Date: 7 Nov 92 11:30:48
Organization: Tampere Univ. of Technology, Finland.
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: kivikkorastas.cs.tut.fi
In-reply-to: ifbb657@cc.utexas.edu's message of 6 Nov 92 22:09:11 GMT

In article <83161@ut-emx.uucp> ifbb657@cc.utexas.edu (Douglas Floyd) writes:

   OK, NeXT is using FatBinaries to do machine code for each processor.
   The bad thing about this is when NeXTStep runs on other processors,
   binaries must be compiled and included with the release.  P-Code is
   too S----L----O----W, and interpreting binaries is slllloooowwww also.

   My solution:

[deteted a solution of hadware independent intermediate code]

Probably what they will do is to shi a utility to strip unnecessary
binaries out. This way users won't need to compile anything or even keep
the compiler on their disks. It might make it more difficult for the
programmer to support all platforms, though.
-- 
         Tero Nieminen                      DANGER!
         ttn@cs.tut.fi                   Computer Bytes!
From: S.A.McIntyre@durham.ac.uk
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: NeXT edu prices go UP!  AGAIN!
Keywords: worse
Date: 6 Nov 92 13:40:46 GMT
Reply-To: S.A.McIntyre@durham.ac.uk
Organization: University of Newcastle upon Tyne, UK, NE1 7RU


[ US whinges about NeXT pricing ommitted]


It could be worse, you could live in the UK where the prices are as  
follows:

NeXTstation 8/105 (nonturbo) = #2940
Monitor for above = # 690
Starting Point Kit = # 160

for a total of: #3790, plus 17.5% tax, of course.

(today's exchange rate is about 1.54 dollars to the pound)

For the systems that the US people are speaking of, 
Monoturbo 16/250 = 4010
Monitor = 690
SPK = 160

total = 4860 + tax = 5710.50 into dollars = 8794.17

Keep in mind that the standard of living in the UK is effectively half of  
the US,and the cost is about twice, not to mention the virtual lack of  
educational funding from the govt and private bodies holding back, and  
virtually NO awareness of NeXT as a company via marketing in the UK (IE  
you can kiss support goodbye)....

Hey, you've got it pretty good over there...

Scott
From: mrothste@keiko.acs.calpoly.edu (Rothstein)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: 486 vs NeXTstation - pros and cons??
Date: 6 Nov 92 20:30:26 GMT
Reply-To: mrothste@data.acs.calpoly.edu
Organization: Cal Poly State University, San Luis Obispo

In article <1992Nov5.234327.12478@pencom.com> ricardo@chuy (Ricardo  
Parada) writes:
> In article <1d9f64INN8cu@crcnis1.unl.edu> jaffe@hoss.unl.edu (David  
Jaffe)  
> writes:
> > Could someone please comment on the pros and cons of getting a
> > NeXTstation (turbo) vs. getting a 486 and the "NeXT operating system"?
> > Does Mathematica come with the latter "package"?
> > 
> > David Jaffe (jaffe@hoss.unl.edu)
> > University of Nebraska - Lincoln
> 
> 486 PC are can be recycled (i.e. they can be used for other operating  
> systems not only NS 486).  They run (or will run) most OS: MS-DOS, OS/2,  
> NT, NS 486, Destiny, Solaris, SCO, etc.
> 
> When it comes to NS, MOST or maybe I should say SOME 486 PCs will be  
> upgradable to color apparently and you can have a wider choice of  
hardware  
> (i.e. Token Ring instead of Ethernet network interface cards).  You also  
> get to choose which computer display you get (ViewSonic, or whatever).
> 
> You can also have multiple Operating Systems in your Hard Disk and pick  
> the one you want to load when you start your computer.
> 
> --
> + Ricardo J. Parada

For myself I feel the biggest difference will be NeXT's multiple I/O  
chanels.  Im sorrta used to doing several in/out things at one time  
(smoothly) but as I can't afford NeXT hardware...

--
-Mont

   NeXTmail OK :-)
   President CP-NUG (Cal Poly NeXT User Group)
   mrothste@data.acs.calpoly.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: byer@adobe.com (Scott Byer)
Subject: Re: NeXT's binaries need a diet, or the solution to NeXT's multiprocessor problem.
Reply-To: byer@adobe.com (Scott Byer)
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 18:58:16 GMT

Jon Rosen writes

>   Indeed fat binaries are a "cool" idea.  I just question your 30%
>   figure.  Do you have this on some authority from somewhere?   

>   I can not imagine that fat binaries aren't easily 80-90% machine
>   dependent.  Practically nothing you mentioned above (strings,
>   numerical constants, tiffs, etc) not to mention code is easily
>   machine independent.

Strings, nibs, tiffs are all machine independant.  Numerical
constants can be made so if the program start-up code flips them
at initialization time (trivial), same for floating point.  (Have
you ever traced through _start? :-)

Leaving __text as about the only thing left.

Now, this is on the NeXT, with the AppKit that every program should
be using very heavily, so most of the UI functionality is actually
contained within the nib portion of the code.  Experience with
poking around several binaries shows __text figures in about the
30% range.

>   Any constant
>   data structures might have alignment differences (you mentioned
>   that but made light of it).

Structure padding is usually a compiler issue, unless the processor
enforces larger pointer alignments.  Neither the 486 or the 040
enforce any serious alignment restrictions, so the compiler can be
made to easily solve this problem.

>   As a side note, what happens to object archive files?  Are they
>   portable across environments?  If so, how is this handled?

Did you use the NXStream object like you were supposed to for
archiving?  Good, taken care of.  With that object being your veneer,
it can do the flippy-flop stuff (at a small cost of performance,
of course) without your application even having to know it was
being done.

Small survey:
NeXTGo: 8% text 	(mosty UI)
Adobe_Seperator: 63% 	(highest I found, a compute intensive app)
PasteUp: 35%		(Probably the most representative)
NewsGrazer: 38%

(I did this by taking the _text number from "size" on the application
binary, and the size of the entire '.app' folder in bytes.  That
way, seperated '.nibs' (as in PasteUp's case) are counted properly
in the size of the application.  Watch out for bundles, though,
they contain code that needs to be counted.)

--
Scott Byer                             NeXTMail: byer@mv.us.adobe.com
Adobe Systems Incorporated               These are *my* opinions, and  
1585 Charleston Road, P.O. Box 7900        do not necessarily reflect
Mountain View, CA 94039-7900             the opinions of my employer.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: NeXT edu prices go UP! AGAIN!
From: <HWTQC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Wednesday, 11 Nov 1992 08:16:52 EST
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center

Paraphrasing bwebster (I'm still getting the hang of VM's
NetPost) in re availability of Microsoft vs. NeXTStep:

> The 486 is out of the reach of most people?

The issue raised is current availability. Unless you can tell me where I
can buy NeXTStep 486 (walk out the door, put down my money, and take it
home), it is not yet a viable alternative; at least not today.

-------
Harry Wert
Queens College Academic Computer Center
NeXT Mail: wert@alehouse.acc.qc.edu

Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: philip@utstat.uucp (Philip McDunnough)
Subject: Re: NeXT Prices: They appear too high for me!
Organization: University of Toronto, Dept. of Statistics
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 06:29:58 GMT

In article <Nov.11.01.49.04.1992.26185@gandalf.rutgers.edu> szatrows@gandalf.rutgers.edu (John Kheit) writes:
>I'm not going to argue a subjective point of 'if next is concerned
>with us anymore'...  I couldnt hope to guess that kind of information.

Seems reasonable.
>
>But I think that saying that next is just a prettier interface is a
>plainly LAME statement.  I'm not going to bother stating why NeXTstep
>is more than just a pretty interface, but if thats why you bought a
>next (as a trophy to parade around as a pretty interface) you've
>really missed the boat on what this machine is all about.

The NeXT is different things to different people. However, I think it is 
rather presumptuous to assume that you know what NeXT is all about and that
we better buy into what NeXt thinks is the answer. NeXT has not found 
the answer to all the world's problems. I rather suspect that many people
have a NeXT because it is a "pretty interface", easy to use, comes with
Mathematica, etc...I see nothing wrong with this. It might be a good idea
for NeXT and its CC's to listen a little to what the users want and not to
tell them how to do their jobs.

Philip McDunnough
University of Toronto
philip@utstat.toronto.edu