HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath)
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
Subject: Re: Please Label Experience Messages "Experience"
Date: 12 Oct 92 18:00:43 GMT
Reply-To: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept of Computer Science

In article <29mFsB1w165w@netlink.cts.com>, jim@netlink.cts.com (Jim Bowery) writes:
|> Please put the word "Experience" at the top of your message if you
|> are posting an account of an experience you've had or know of.
|> 
|> --                    
|> INTERNET:  jim@netlink.cts.com (Jim Bowery)
|> UUCP:   ...!ryptyde!netlink!jim
|> NetLink Online Communications * Public Access in San Diego, CA (619) 453-1115

Which will allow those who only want to read about experiences to avoid 
all other types of postings....

-- 
  Robert E. McGrath
  Urbana Illinois
  mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
From: jim@netlink.cts.com (Jim Bowery)
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
Subject: Re: astral planes
Date: 15 Oct 92 14:55:14 GMT
Organization: NetLink Online Communications, San Diego CA

Robert McGrathK writes:
>I might also point out that, IMHO, this phenomnon is actually pretty 
well 
>understood, and there is plenty of reliable information about what the 
>experiences are like.  The experiences posted here are pretty similar to
>hundreds of others I have read about.  There is no reason not to post
>them, but I don't think much new ground is being broken here.
 
A FAQ list should be set up containing compilations of sources of 
"reliable information about what the experiences are like".  All
too often, what we have are the voluminous accounts of one person, 
like Monroe, which necessarily BIASES the accounts.  What is far
more important is to extract the salient character of the experience
from a wide variety of people with a wide variety of backgrounds
and "spiritual paths."
 
To claim that "not much new ground is being broken here" is to
leave unaddressed fact that most people find the very idea of 
oobe bizzare at best.  
 
Furthermore, I already have seen new ground broken here.  In all
my readings on oobes and hypnogogic states, I've never run across
a description of the lightning flashes subsequent to the sleep
paralysis terror -- which I've experienced personally -- yet among 
the first messages I saw in here were precise descriptions of that
experience.  
 
Also, not everyone has the same technique for eliciting oobes.  
You should respect to the techniques others use -- as good and 
effective as your own may be.  Part of the experience is the
activity leading up to the actual oob event itself.

--                    
INTERNET:  jim@netlink.cts.com (Jim Bowery)
UUCP:   ...!ryptyde!netlink!jim
NetLink Online Communications * Public Access in San Diego, CA (619) 453-1115
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
From: KHATCH@130.187.170.178 (kh)
Subject: Re: astral planes
Organization: Terra Incognita
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 19:28:18 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.11

In <1992Oct13.220447.24827@m.cs.uiuc.edu> mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu writes:

> I might also point out that, IMHO, this phenomnon is actually pretty well 
> understood, and there is plenty of reliable information about what the 
> experiences are like.  The experiences posted here are pretty similar to
> hundreds of others I have read about.  There is no reason not to post
> them, but I don't think much new ground is being broken here.

    I see this group primarily as a forum for us to share and compare our
personal experiences and observations.  If this is it's primary purpose then
we should all stop wasting our time here and instead read those "hundreds of
others" in printed material.  For many of us OBEs are a strange new world that
we've stumbled into, often totally by accident, and we are trying to learn a
few things from each other.  My personal opinion is that OBEs are a purely
mental phenomenon.  I used to spend a lot of time bashing people who easily
accepted paranormal claims as simple fact.  Now I simply want to compare notes
with others who have had this experience.  There seem to be a number of common
factors regardless of personal belief systems and I find the various personal
interpretations interesting. 

    New ground will never be broken as long as people feel intimidated about 
offering personal experience.  We'll simply be stuck with that finite list of 
"hundreds" of existing examples.
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
From: TARZAN
Subject: RE. MORE EXPERIENCE
Organization: Bell-Northern Research
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 15:49:08 GMT

I HAVE READ OF A WOMAN WHO WHILE TRAVELLING OUT OF BODY BECAME STUCK TO A POWER
TRANSMISSION LINE.  SHE SAID SHE HAD TO FOLLOW THE LINE TO A GROUNDING POINT TO
BE ABLE TO GET OFF OF IT.  INTERESTING.  
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
From: anne@cs.UAlberta.CA (Anne J.R. Nield)
Subject: Re: near death exp.
Organization: University of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 19:15:21 GMT

mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath) writes:



>1.  Why is it so important whether "people like your uncle" "share their
>    experiences"?


Because we might learn something from them??

>2.  I do not accept that the one and only reason people don't "share"
>    is because some "people" "carelessly treat another's deeply meaningful
>    experience as if it were nothing".

Maybe not the only reason -- but I'd guess it was right up there in the
top 3!!

>3.  Just exactly how am I supposed to treat someone's "deeply meaninful
>    experience" anyway?  It's not necessarily that meaningful to me.

Speaking for myself, I would rather hear about someone's "deeply
meaningful experience" than some sort of intellectual mind game.

>I don't like to see people be unkind and insensative any more than you 
>do, but why do we need so many posts on this topic?

I just happened to be "passing through" this group -- but isn't its
title something to do with "OBE's".  Doesn't the "E" have something to
do with "Experience"? 

Just wondering what the point of discussing something is if experiences
don't count.  But -- maybe I missed something here!?

Anne

Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
From: news@novell.com (The Netnews Manager)
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
Subject: Re: First try...
Date: 8 Oct 92 00:48:28 GMT
Organization: Novell Inc., San Jose, Califonia

All I can say is just take your time.  I used to go through that
myself.  Now it's under control.  At first, I used to get OOBE's
without knowing anything about it.  Then one day, I was in a book-store
(Tower) and I decided to look for what I was experiencing, but yet didn't
know the terminology.  Just then I saw a book with a lady in front of it
separating from her body.  At that point, that's where I realized that I
was having OOBE's.  So ever since, I've been reading about the subject.
I also didn't know there was an alt.OOBE, till someone from the FreeNet
made mention to it.  To me, this is like home, in that I can now tell
people about OOBE's.
From: rmaratas@novell.com (Robert Maratas)
B

B
A
A
A
A
A
A



Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
From: TARZAN
Subject: TO ROBERT
Organization: Bell-Northern Research
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 20:48:25 GMT

ROBERT, DO WHAT YOU WANT TO DO.   LIFE.
From: efinley@infoserv.com (Elliot Finley)
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
Subject: Re: address of the Monroe Institute?
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 92 22:04:14 PDT
Distribution: world
Organization: Personalized Programming

Here is the address to the monroe institute.


                The Monroe Institute
                Route 1, Box 175
                Faber, Virginia 22938
                (804) 361-1252

Hope this helps

                   Elliot Finley
                    (efinley@infoserv.com)
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 12:03:37 EDT
From: <CCS105@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
Subject: Re: astral planes



>       First of all, I am not a religious fanatic, I am however a catholic
which I don't even know what that means.  Naturally I am interested in anything
that is related to what happens after we die.  However, I find it extremely
difficult to believe people (I am very open minded) when they start subdividing
astral planes into subregions, and they know the exact number of "planes" after
>you die, etc, etc.    Where do you get all of this information???
>        How do you expect me to believe this stuff?  Do not insult my
>intelligence.

My Response:

A catholic,(to most) means you believe in Jesus's teachings.  It is hard to
 believe that someone can know all of the various plains you go to when you
leave this earth.  Of course, the very title of this group, is also hard to
believe for most americans. It is possible through experience and other peoples
knowlege to get a sense of what happens when you die.  However, anyone who says
"you should know of the 5 plains available when you die"...is full of it.
The Roman catholic religion devides up what happens when you die into 4 div.
heaven, purgatory limbo, and hell.  It could be possible to split up these
groups, but no one really knows exactly where they will go when they die.
THey might however, get a general idea. I prefer to think there are several
thousand levels in where you can go.



>       Is there a subdivision in this astral world for my dog?  If not,
>why not?  the dog and any other animal are biological creatures, just like
>us humans.  For the same reasons, even a cockroach deserves a spot in this
stral plane.  Who knows, it may even reincarnate as a trout next time it comes
>round.


MY Response
    Good question. If you believe that your dog has a soul, then i guess their
would be a place.  I do not really pay a lot of attention to the eastern,"if
you eat a lot, you will be a pig in your next life stuff. I'm sure it is
possible to reincarnate into a lower form, but i doubt it happens alot. THe
time you spend before you reincarnate again is to cleanse your soul, hence you
go to the level that you belong.
                             later, gersha

                                      smitty
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
From: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath)
Subject: Re: astral planes
Reply-To: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept of Computer Science
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 19:55:19 GMT

In article <1992Oct8.234803.1@eagle.wesleyan.edu>, jtulli@eagle.wesleyan.edu writes:
|> i do not know much about divisions of astral planes, etc., but i would most
|> definately say that your dog is equal to you, and a blade of grass is equal to
|> your dog who is equal to you.  all living things have consciousness, which
|> makes them all equal, which means that they probably have access to certain
|> regions of the astral after they die and maybe when they sleep/oobe, just like
|> us :)
|> 
|> my opinion (not so humble this time :)
|> 
|> Jude

You don't seem to be operating on quite the same level of reality
that I am.  I am easily able to distinguish between myself,
my dog, and my lawn.  More to the point, I can distinguish what
appears to be different kinds of consciousness in these entities.
How you can possibly claim that all are "equal to you" is beyond
me.

Anyway, since dogs and cats sleep and apparently dream, I'm willing 
to suppose that they might have OBEs (although I know of no evidence
that they do).  Can we think of a clever experiment to determine
if a pet actually has an OBE?

Grass, however, has no brain, and does not sleep or dream.  Since grass
doesn't seem to be self-aware, I can't see how it could have much
"experience" of any kind, in or out of its "body".

-- 
  Robert E. McGrath
  Urbana Illinois
  mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
From: marino@dxcern.cern.ch (Massimo Marino)
Subject: Re: First try...[thanks]
Organization: CERN European Lab for Particle Physics
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 13:52:54 GMT

I wish to thank all the guys that took the time to answer me,
either posting or via e-mailing me. I have to tell (also for the benefit of
newcomers as me) that most answers tend to reassure me that OOBE experiences
are safe but one, advicing me that these experiences should be undergone with
the help and guide of experienced persons (he mentioned oriental religion
meditation practice - I tend to say *properly* mentioned as this - IMHO -
sort of things oriental religions have always been related with). Needles to
say there's no experienced person in the area to reckon on, and - still 
needless to say - this is not going to stop me trying more.

I also received mails from unexperienced persons like me and I think, if
this proposition will be supported by others (I am just one), that it would be nice if one can find a post explaining most of the basic things (who knows out there wich are *basic* things) to trace a shortcut toward OOBE; (maybe it does not exist a recipe valid for everyone - I am too novice to judge).

Apart from all these words, I have two questions about OOBE:

a) the control of movement of the *astral* body (is it the right definition?)
happens to be of the same sort of the physical one or one should try a totally different approach? 

b) it seems (from answers I received) that the presence of another *person*, *entity*, *whatever*, is not rare nor dangerous, BUT, what in world is that presence, and why is there?

I thing I relaxed enough to try again one of these nights... should I follow a different approach from getting relaxed and *forgetting* the body?
Is it possible to obtain OOBE consciousnessly or it happens usually after losing consciousness (and then regaining it again by chance).

So actually there were 4 questions, sorry 'bout that...

Cheers, Max
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Massimo Marino     |internet: marino@hplaa01.cern.ch| marino@dxcern.cern.ch     
CERN - PPE Division|bitnet:   marino@cernvm.bitnet  |  
1211 Geneve 23     |decnet:   vxcern::marino        |   
Switzerland        |FAX:      (41) (22) 785 - 0207  |  
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: CCS105@psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
Subject: Re: near death exp.ENOUGH??
Date: 15 Oct 92 20:12:37 GMT
 <1992Oct14.211514.21737@m.cs.uiuc.edu> <anne.719176521@menaik>
Organization: Penn State University

Anne---I would suggest that you are correct in your assumption. I would
also ask the group to focus on the articles, instead of thrashing each other.
A textbook wont cover life, experience is needed.  You get a basic
understanding through technical stuff, which is the backbone,if you will. You
grow from it. Experience is what uses technology, and advances it.

    Experiences will cover things not written down, and it helps you look at
things in a different light. No one has to criticize someone elses experience.
Just listen to it and pick out ideas, if there are any there.
                             Thats all for now. Gersha,

                                          Smitty.
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
From: forrie@morwyn.uucp (Forrest Aldrich)
Subject: Re: address of the Monroe Institute?
Organization: Vision Graphics
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 15:38:40 GMT
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

William Palmer (wpalmer@oasys.dt.navy.mil) wrote:
|
| 	 Can any of you provide me with the address and telephone number
| of the Monroe Institute? I know they're located somewhere in rural Virginia,
| but that's about as close as I can come. Thanks for your help.
|
[ ... ]

	The Monroe Institute
	Route 1, Box 175
	Faber, VA  22938-9749

	(804) 361-1252

	Ask for their information packet.  It has a lot of information about
	what the program is about... it also lists some tape sets available.
	I found the people I spoke with to be very friendly, courteous and
	helpful.


-- 
	   -----------	      Forrest Aldrich	      -----------
	   -------     morwyn!forrie@unhtel.unh.edu	  -------
	   ----						     ----
	   --	     VISION GRAPHICS --	Dover, NH - USA	       --
	   ------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
From: rmaratas@novell.com (Robert Maratas)
Subject: Re: OBE limitations
Organization: Novell Inc., San Jose, Califonia
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 00:39:44 GMT

You might talking about Robert A. Monroe.  He's written a couple of
books about OOBE's and shared some interesting experiences along the
way.

Bob
From: toma@hyperion.gsfc.nasa.gov (Tom Atwater)
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
Subject: Re: Question on Robert Monroe
Date: 9 Oct 92 12:23:54 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Code 916, NASA Goddard Space Flight Center

In article <1992Oct8.152924.30247@m.cs.uiuc.edu> mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu writes:
>In article <1b1fisINNst1@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, oldham@ces.cwru.edu (Daniel Oldham) writes:
>|> What is this Robert Monroe Institute? 
>|> 
>|> I have never heard of it and there seems to be a lot of talk about it.
>|> I gather that it is a place where people train for OOB?
>Its exactly that.  They talk a good game, and presumably get enough
>business to stay in business 20 years.

They also do research on altered states of consciousness.
Currently they are studying things like the response of psychic healers'
brain waves while healing.
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
From: sbiles@nmsu.edu (Susannah E Biles)
Subject: ahem....
Organization: NMSU Computer Science
Distribution: alt.out-of-body
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 00:13:54 GMT


I find NO problem with posting stories!
That is what this group is for! To post interesting stories and
experiences in order to impart some interesting fact or some sort of
information for us to discuss. 
That does not mean that straight factual data cannot be posted
either..there is room for both and I believe that trying to censor
certain posts is insane...
We are here to share our experiences with the subject of the news
group and the story relating the experience of the woman who got stuck
to a power transmission line is valid material especially considering
there has been an ongoing debate over "energy" of astral bodies and
there relation or lack thereof to other  power sources.
IMHO All posts should be appreciated and not dismissed just because someone
thinks that they should.
Thanks for listening
Susannah
From: awest@ub.d.umn.edu (The Piano Man)
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
Subject: OOBE with someone else in bed
Date: 15 Oct 1992 14:36:37 -0500
Organization: University of Minnesota, Duluth
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: ub.d.umn.edu
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
Subject: Re: astral planes
From: jtulli@eagle.wesleyan.edu
Date: 9 Oct 92 19:16:29 EDT
Organization: Wesleyan University

In article <1992Oct9.195519.12162@m.cs.uiuc.edu>, mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert 
McGrath) writes:
> 
> You don't seem to be operating on quite the same level of reality
> that I am.  I am easily able to distinguish between myself,
> my dog, and my lawn.  More to the point, I can distinguish what
> appears to be different kinds of consciousness in these entities.
> How you can possibly claim that all are "equal to you" is beyond
> me.

hmm...sorry if i'm unclear...what i mean by "equal" is that they are both one
consciousness.  all consciousnesses are inherently equal (i think), though some 
are more highly evolved than others.
 
> Anyway, since dogs and cats sleep and apparently dream, I'm willing 
> to suppose that they might have OBEs (although I know of no evidence
> that they do).  Can we think of a clever experiment to determine
> if a pet actually has an OBE?

perhaps try to meet her or him while (s)he (the pet) is sleeping and you (the
person) is OBEing...

> Grass, however, has no brain, and does not sleep or dream.  Since grass
> doesn't seem to be self-aware, I can't see how it could have much
> "experience" of any kind, in or out of its "body".

i've heard of experiments in which a guy goes into a room full of plants and
kills a plant or two in the presence of all the others.  the
plants emit a vibration that has been compared to a scream...then whenever the
"murderer" comes back in the room, the still-living plants emit that same
vibration...i think there's more to plants than science acknowledges...

Jude
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
Subject: Re: astral planes
From: jtulli@eagle.wesleyan.edu
Date: 8 Oct 92 23:48:03 EDT
Organization: Wesleyan University

i do not know much about divisions of astral planes, etc., but i would most
definately say that your dog is equal to you, and a blade of grass is equal to
your dog who is equal to you.  all living things have consciousness, which
makes them all equal, which means that they probably have access to certain
regions of the astral after they die and maybe when they sleep/oobe, just like
us :)

my opinion (not so humble this time :)

Jude
From: oldham@ces.cwru.edu (Daniel Oldham)
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
Subject: Astral Guide
Date: 8 Oct 1992 14:24:25 GMT
Organization: Computer Engineering and Science, Case Western Reserve University
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: king.ces.cwru.edu

Steps to astral travel

1) Find a quiet and secure location.
2) Lay down, close your eyes and relax.
3) Remove any fear from your mind.
4) Think of your astral body gradually drifting upwards or rolling
	out of your physical body.
5) As you drift away you may feel a slight snapping sensation or
	ringing in your ears.
6) If you snap back or jerk, go to sleep and wait one day.
7) If you are not afraid and you did not twitch, your astral body
	will slowly float off.
8) For your first time breath shallowly, hardly think and
	when you are consciously out avoid looking at your physical body.
9) When you are ready to return just think about being back in
	your physical body and wake up.

Your astral body and physical body are connected by the silver cord
which goes from your umbilicus to the umbilicus of your astral body.

Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
From: ebail@ctp.com (Erik Bailey)
Subject: Re: THE DIVINE MASTERS and SOUL TRAVEL
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 19:17:38 GMT
Organization: Cambridge Technology Partners

In article <1992Oct6.162312.1553@cnsvax.uwec.edu> mcelwre@cnsvax.uwec.edu writes:
>                      THE DIVINE MASTERS and SOUL TRAVEL 

Please -- feel free to post anything you want, but try not to CAPITALIZE
every OTHER word IN the POST!!! It makes it extremely difficult to read,
and also comes across as self-righteous and preachy.

All IMHO, of course.

--Erik

-- 
Erik Bailey   | Cambridge Technology Partners      | The usual disclaimer
              | 304 Vassar St., Cambridge MA 02139 | applies: this post is
ebail@ctp.com | (617) 374-8418                     | mine, not my employer's.
      /earth is 98% full; please remove any excess inhabitants.
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
From: tindall@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Mike Tindall)
Subject: Re: Please Help
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 03:25:48 GMT

In article <1992Oct8.210558.11791@nrtpa038.bnr.ca> TARZAN writes:
>In article <63240001@hpwrce.mayfield.hp.com> kingsley@hpwrce.mayfield.hp.com
>(Kingsley Morse) writes:
>>              Please answer these 9 questions and return.


Trust me- they'll go away.  Bank on it.  Anyone for forming alt.clairvoyant?
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
Subject: Dual Consciousness [noise conditions(oobe)]
From: S952092@UMSLVMA.UMSL.EDU
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 14:24:25 GMT
Organization: UM ST. LOUIS

     Hi everybody, I had that interesting experience.....
  I woke up (atrally, my phys. body was asleep), I also could see my room
  with my eyes closed(common ability in the trance condition), so I decided
  to separate. But it did not seem to work, I could not rise myself up, then
  I tried rolling and it worked. I went to another room, but I felt somewhat
  uncomfortable, I could still feel my physical body which was sleeping soundly
  in my bed.
        When I reach the other room, I also discovered, that I still could see
  MY room with my right eye, but with my left I could the other room. It seemed
  to be that I was at two different places at once, that was really cool.
     I wonder if anybody else had such experience...
 
                                         Jack.