HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: white@drwho.ee.ufl.edu (John White)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware
Subject: need info on SS10 audio capability
Keywords: audio, sparcstation10
Date: 29 Jul 92 15:03:09 GMT
Followup-To: white@drwho.ee.ufl.edu
Organization: University of Florida, Electrical Engineering Dept.

***************************************************
Our Research Lab has a few questions concerning the
SPARCstation 10's audio capabilities ...

We do a lot of NSF and NIH research on speech 
synthesis and currently use an ATT DSP32C VME board
and ESPS software (plus a lot of custom C stuff).

***************************************************

If you respond, please reply directly to:
white@drwho.ee.ufl.edu
and we will post results.
Thank you very much !

**************************************************
Our questions concerning the 10:
**************************************************

1)  stereo or mono ?
2)  which A/D and D/A chip(s)?
3)  native data format(s):
  	a) 8-bit u-law (like our IPX's, ELC's, etc.) ?
	b) 16-bit linear (PCM) ?
	c) other ?
	
	(I realize you can convert _some_ formats
  	to others via simple filters)

3.5)  supported sampling rate(s)? (yes, I know
      we can also convert fs with filters)

4)  How is the background (idle) noise?  We ask this
    because our ELC's and IPX's have audible background 
    interference, apparently associated with bad 
    shielding or grounding (i.e. no separate converter
    ground).  All of them do it, we use headphones a lot
    and are critical listeners ...

5)  anything else we should know ?

***************************************************

We're real close to buying one, so if there's anything
you think we should know, please contact us directly.
And again, thanks.

***************************************************
From: langjahr@is7.ifistg.uucp (Andreas Langjahr)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware
Subject: Help for Rimfire 35XX VMEbus SCSI Adapter wanted
Date: 30 Jul 92 14:50:28 GMT
Distribution: comp.sys.sun.hardware
Organization: IfI, Univ. Stuttgart, W Germany


Has anyone experience with Rimfire 35XX VMEbus SCSI Host Bus Adapter,
and can explain how to install it to a 4/260 ?

Thanks in advance
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andreas Langjahr                 SMTP:langjahr@informatik.uni-stuttgart.de
Institut fuer Informatik         X400:langjahr@informatik.uni-stuttgart.dbp.de
Breitwiesenstr. 20/22
D - 7000 Stuttgart 80            Tel.: 0711-7816-440
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware,comp.sys.sun.wanted
From: nanook@eskimo.celestial.com (Robert Dinse)
Subject: Video Drivers
Keywords: Video Projector Drivers
Organization: -> ESKIMO NORTH (206) For-Ever <-
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 17:17:31 GMT


     We would like to be able to drive about 4 hi-resolution video projectors
(Sony model VPH1271Q) and be able to put different graphics/text on different
screens (like multiple X-window screens).

     Can anyone recommend a hardware device(s) that will allow us to do this?

     One solution would be to use a bunch of X-terminals with video output but
that would be ugly.
From: Bob.Smith@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Bob Smith)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware
Subject: Need info on 3rd Party color monitor for GX frame buffer
Date: 30 Jul 92 13:28:34 GMT
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service


Hello again with another question,

Anyone know of 3rd party 16"+ color monitors wich will work with a
s-bus based GX frame buffer.  Dodn't have the bux to buy an official
$+++ one from sun, so I'm fishing for info.

Thanks in advance,

bob smith

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware
From: canrem.com!sunlife!grant (Grant Fischer)
Subject: Fujitsu 3480-compatible tape drive on a Sun
Organization: SunLife of Canada
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 20:13:01 GMT


We're investigating putting a Fujitsu M2483B drive on our 4/490.
This drive may have been formally known as model M2481, and is 
a SCSI 3480 cartridge drive.

We want to be able to read using 'dd' 3480 cartdridges
created by our IBM mainframe , and we would like to hear from
people who have some experience with this, or with attaching
unusual SCSI drives.

Specifically, I want to know if an enhanced 'st' driver from
Sun is necessary, or is it only necessary if we want to 
control an Auto Cartridge Loader. We aren't going to use the
drive for dumps/restores, just plain old 'dd', one tape at a
time. We're running 4.1.1, but can go to 4.1.2 if necessary.

Please reply to the e-mail address below.

Thanks!


Grant Fischer              phone: 416-979-6076
Sun Life of Canada         fax  : 416-979-6030
                           email: canrem.com!sunlife!grant

Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware
From: tuna@KANCHENJUNGA.LCS.MIT.EDU (Kirk 'UhOh' Johnson)
Subject: Two questions about suns and VME
Summary: 4/110 guts into 3/280 chassis, ejector levers
Keywords: donuts, crullers, coffee rolls
Reply-To: Kirk Johnson <tuna@lcs.mit.edu>
Organization: Massachvsetts Institvte of Technology
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 19:04:39 GMT

question 1:

 we've got a 3/280 sitting around doing nothing and, for need of
 VME slots, would like to swap the guts of a 4/110 (the two slot
 processor, memory, framebuffer combo) into the 3/280 backplane.
 not knowing a great deal about configuring these backplanes,
 we're wondering if there's any reason this should or shouldn't
 work. (if you think it should work, do you have any good ideas
 about how to decide which slot to put the board in, how to
 configure the jumpers, etc.)

question 2:

 we're building a VME board that will be populating one of these
 3/280 backplane slots, and would like to put ejector levers on
 the board. anybody have any good ideas where one can get
 information about and purchase the necessary hardware?

please e-mail replies; i'll summarize to the net if there's enough
interest.

thanks very much,

kirk
-- 

 Kirk Johnson ------ tuna@lcs.mit.edu ------ Yow! Have I graduated yet?
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware
From: wtm@uhura.neoucom.edu (Bill Mayhew)
Subject: Re: Networking recommendation
Organization: Northeastern Ohio Universities College of Medicine
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 18:12:55 GMT

Yes, you can wire two 10baseT transcievers back-to-back.  You do
have to make (or buy) a cable that crosses over the receive and
transmit pairs in the cable.  The pins are 2, 3, 4, and 6.  I don't
recall off hand which are receive and transmit.  Write if you can't
find it in the manual, and I'll look it up.


-- 
Bill Mayhew      NEOUCOM Computer Services Department
Rootstown, OH  44272-9995  USA    phone: 216-325-2511
wtm@uhura.neoucom.edu   (140.220.1.1)
From: cudep@warwick.ac.uk (Ian Dickinson)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware
Subject: Re: Networking recommendation
Date: 23 Jul 92 10:25:05 GMT
Organization: Team Limpid's Meathead With Aptitude - Kunst und Wahnsinn

In article <1992Jul22.182937.643@zia.aoc.nrao.edu> rmilner@zia.aoc.nrao.edu (Ruth Milner) writes:
>>     I've got two Sun 3/80s that I'd like to network together.  What's a
>>     good (read cheap) method?
>Join them with a piece of thinwire and terminators at each end. Might cost
>$25 or so (two terminators, two T-connectors, n feet of coax).

I didn't think that 3/80s had thin-net,ie AUI only.
In which case add 2 micro-transceivers to the price.

Cheers,
--
Ian
-- 
\/ato - Ian Dickinson - NIC handle: ID17                              Yo! Bum 
vato@csv.warwick.ac.uk  ...!mcsun!uknet!warwick!vato                     rush
/I=I/S=Dickinson/OU=CSV/O=Warwick/PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/                 the
@c=GB@o=University of Warwick@ou=Computing Services@cn=Ian Dickinson     show
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware
From: oneill@cs.ulowell.edu (Brian 'Doc' O'Neill)
Subject: Re: Help!! Lost partition table on Hitachi drive
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Lowell Computer Science
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 13:41:51 GMT

Thanks to those who responded...

My solution was that suninstall kept a copy of the partition tables it had
set up when the OS was installed, and placed it in /etc/install/disk_info.*.
Since I never repartitioned the drive after the install, that information
was correct...

Thanks to Janet Walz for pointing that out...

=======================================================================
Brian O'Neill - Systems Manager, Computer Science 	 (508) 934-3645
University of Massachusetts at Lowell
Internet: oneill@ulowell.edu		Moderator, comp.binaries.ibm.pc
Xref: sparky comp.sys.sun.hardware:3640 comp.sys.sun.wanted:1228
From: n3hnr@hpb.cis.pitt.edu (Jason Galanter)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware,comp.sys.sun.wanted
Subject: 12MB Sun memory board forsale/trade
Date: 30 Jul 92 21:07:21 GMT
Followup-To: comp.sys.sun.hardware
Organization: University of Pittsburgh
Originator: n3hnr@hpb.cis.pitt.edu

I have a Clearpoint SNME-3E 12MB memory board for a Sun system, I am
really not quite sure what this thing is worth however I would like to
get 4 4x9MB SIMMS in trade.


				J
-- 
Jason Galanter / N3HNR      | n3hnr@hpb.cis.pitt.edu 
322 Mall Blvd., Suite 306   | galanter+@pitt.edu 
Monroeville, PA 15146       | 
(412)521-6042               | * How's that for an information-only .sig? 
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware
From: andre@leland.Stanford.EDU (Chang-Li Hung)
Subject: Help on ELC
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 00:39:53 GMT

Hi,

The ELC in our lab crashed once recently. The machine was very hot and
power-on test failed. The message from the screen is to replace the 
mother board.  However, after being turned off for one day, the machine
is back on line again and everything works fine. I wonder if that's the
overheating cause the problem. Is there a way to check the fan's
condition.
Thanks in advance.

Chang-Li Hung
andre@structure.stanford.edu


Followup-To: 
Distribution: ba
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Keywords: ELC


Xref: sparky comp.sys.sun.hardware:3596 comp.periphs.scsi:3788
From: km@mathcs.emory.edu (Ken Mandelberg)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware,comp.periphs.scsi
Subject: IPI fault light
Date: 29 Jul 92 16:31:00 GMT
Reply-To: km@mathcs.emory.edu
Followup-To: comp.sys.sun.hardware
Organization: Emory University, Dept of Math and CS

We had an interface card go bad in one of our Sun Seagate Elite IPI
drives. We replaced the board and the drive now works correctly,
although the fault light comes on and stays on when the drive spins up.
The same thing happened to another drive in which we had the bad
interface board for a while during testing.

My guess is that while the bad interface board was in, an error
indicator was recorded on the disk by the interface firmware. Formating
the drive (with Sun format) doesn't seem to effect this. The fault
light still stays on although the drive(s) are working perfectly.

Does anyone know how to get rid of the fault indication?

---
Ken Mandelberg      | km@mathcs.emory.edu          PREFERRED
Emory University    | {rutgers,gatech}!emory!km    UUCP 
Dept of Math and CS | km@emory.bitnet              NON-DOMAIN BITNET  
Atlanta, GA 30322   | Phone: Voice (404) 727-7963, FAX 727-5611

Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware
From: eap@ora.com (Eric Pearce)
Subject: Mini-DIN to DB25F cables
Organization: O'Reilly & Associates, Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 21:47:17 GMT

I need an alternate supplier for these cables.  I'm setting up a bunch
of IPCs and do not want to pay Sun $40 per cable.  The Sun part number
is 530-1662.  The offical description is:  "RS-232 Cable, External, 
1.0 M, Mini-Din to DB-25".
Has anybody found them at reasonable price?

Thanks
-e
-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric Pearce eap@ora.com 
O'Reilly & Associates, Publishers of NutShell Series Handbooks
103 Morris St, Sebastopol, CA 95472  1-800-998-9938
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware
From: famatthews@gallua.gallaudet.edu (Allen Matthews)
Subject: Re: Where did Precision Standard Time go?
Organization: Gallaudet University, Washington, D.C.
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 16:15:35 GMT


	The Precision Standard Time, Inc went out of business. But the
other company have purchase the equipments and the rights from PSTI..
Formerly PSTI clock are now owned by new company called TRACONEX..

	I just contact them to get software for our DEC Ultrix system
to listen to PSTI clock..   My contact person is...

		Robert Young
		3162 E. La Palma Avenue, Suite E
		Anaheim, CA 92806
		(714) 632-9510, FAX (714) 632-3723

					- Allen -

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Allen Matthews - Supervisor, Computer Operation
Gallaudet University Computer Services, Washington, D.C. 

  Bitnet: FAMATTHEWS@GALLUA			(202) 651-5276 TDD
INTERNET: Famatthews@gallua.gallaudet.edu	(202) 651-5300 Voice/TDD
From: gt1111a@prism.gatech.EDU (Vincent Fox)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware
Subject: swapping to slow&fast disks on same controller: good idea?
Date: 29 Jul 92 16:39:12 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

I have a Sparc II running SunOS 4.1.2 and am in the process of setting it
up as a fileserver. For right now, it will have a Wren 7, two Wren 8's,
and one Seagate Elite external, in addition to the internal 424. These
are all on the same bus. I may be getting a second SCSI controller in the
the future, but for now I have to pile them all onto one.

Right now, I've got 32 meg swap partitions on each disk. Reading O'Reilly's
book on System Performance Tuning, it recommends only putting the swaps on
the fastest disks, since SCSI handles simultaneous access to different
drives poorly and you'll just end up shooting yourself in the foot.

The Elite spins at 5400 RPM and Seagate claims an 11 msec access time, 
with the rest of the drives at I think 17 msec or slower. Thus according
to his logic I should just have one big swap paritition on the Elite and
use the space on the Wrens for files. Your recommendations and insights
are welcome :-)

-- 
The War on Drugs is just a part of the War on the US Constitution. 
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware,alt.sys.sun
From: sysmark@helios.physics.utoronto.ca (Mark Bartelt)
Subject: Sparc-10 performance oddity
Reply-To: mark@cita.toronto.edu
Organization: University of Toronto Physics/Astronomy/CITA
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 12:58:43 GMT

I've noticed a peculiarity (described below) with the Sparc-10/41.  Does
anyone have a clue as to what's going on?  To compare the Sparc-10 with
older Sparcs, I ran an admittedly crude zeroth-order test of non-FP CPU
horsepower, namely how much CPU time does it take for "dc" to calculate
sqrt(2) N times to D decimal places, for various combinations of N and D.
The test was run three times on a Sparc-1+, a Sparc-2, and a Sparc-10/41.
(At least I'm *told* it was a 10/41; it was in the booth at a trade show
earlier this summer.)  Here are the performance ratios:

                        RelativePerf
        Prec    Loops   2:1+    41:2
        ----    -----   ----    ----
          5     50000   1.72    1.64
         20      7000   1.73    1.35
         50      1400   1.72    1.24
         99       400   1.74    1.20

Note that the performance of the Sparc-2 relative to the Sparc-1+ is
fairly constant, independent of which test was run.  But for the 10/41,
the performance (relative to the Sparc-2) differed, depending on which
test was run.  (Also, running the *same* test repeatedly gave a wider
variance of CPU times than one sees on the older Sparcs.)

So, a couple questions:  First, even in the best case above, the 10/41
doesn't perform anywhere near as well as one might hope, based on the
published MIPS/SPECint figures.  Is this expected?

Secondly, why should the performance ratios depend on the precision that
dc is using?  I suppose it could be related to cache hit rates or some
such, but I can't believe that dc, even at 99 decimal places of precision,
needs so much memory that the cache hit ratio would drop dramatically.

The script used to get the times is appended below.  Does anyone have any
insights?

Mark Bartelt                                                  416/978-5619
Canadian Institute for                               mark@cita.toronto.edu
Theoretical Astrophysics                             mark@cita.utoronto.ca

"Clothes not busy being worn are busy drying."   -   Dylan, on laundry day

---------------

#!/bin/sh

x1=2vc2vc2vc2vc2vc2vc2vc2vc2vc2vc	# 10
x2=$x1$x1$x1$x1$x1$x1$x1$x1$x1$x1	# 100
x3=$x2$x2$x2$x2$x2$x2$x2$x2$x2$x2	# 1000
x4=$x3$x3$x3$x3$x3$x3$x3$x3$x3$x3	# 10000

echo  5k$x4$x4$x4$x4$x4					| time dc
echo 20k$x3$x3$x3$x3$x3$x3$x3				| time dc
echo 50k$x2$x2$x2$x2$x2$x2$x2$x2$x2$x2$x2$x2$x2$x2	| time dc
echo 99k$x2$x2$x2$x2					| time dc
From: nabil@qiclab.scn.rain.com (Aaron Nabil)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware
Subject: Used Emulex MD-21 ESDI to SCSI converter $100
Date: 27 Jul 92 11:46:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: qiclab.1992Jul27.114609.16070
Distribution: usa
Organization: Explosive Space Modulators - R - Us

Used Emulex MD-21 ESDI to SCSI converter $100

Aaron @ (503) 644-2515
-- 
Aaron
nabil@cse.ogi.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware
From: oneill@cs.ulowell.edu (Brian 'Doc' O'Neill)
Subject: Help!! Lost partition table on Hitachi drive
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Lowell Computer Science
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 20:47:10 GMT

One of the Hitachi drives on our 4/280 lost its label from a poweer outage,
and with it the partition information. I've been able to fix the label, but
the partitions were not the defaults. Is there a way to find out where there
partitions were, given the fact that there were 4.2 file systems on them? Is
there a way to scan the wrong device looking for the file system information
that would be enough to restore from?

Help would be much appreciated, as it would save days of our time...

=======================================================================
Brian O'Neill - Systems Manager, Computer Science 	 (508) 934-3645
University of Massachusetts at Lowell
Internet: oneill@ulowell.edu		Moderator, comp.binaries.ibm.pc
From: cudep@warwick.ac.uk (Ian Dickinson)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware
Subject: Re: Networking recommendation
Date: 30 Jul 92 10:56:04 GMT
Organization: Team Limpid's Meathead With Aptitude - Kunst und Wahnsinn

In article <1992Jul23.130454.3965@ll.mit.edu> mikem@ll.mit.edu writes:
>In article <1992Jul22.182937.643@zia.aoc.nrao.edu> rmilner@zia.aoc.nrao.edu (Ruth Milner) writes:
>>Join them with a piece of thinwire and terminators at each end. Might cost
>>$25 or so (two terminators, two T-connectors, n feet of coax).
>3/80s don't have internal transceivers, and there's no way to just take
>the 15-pin ethernet ports of the 3/80s and wire them together.  (Are there
>any electronics wizards out there who'd like to say otherwise?  Maybe it's
>possible if you only have TWO workstations?)

Is it possible using a direct connection between 2 10baseT tranceivers?

>Clearly, Steve Aliamus wants to avoid spending the $60-$70 or so each for
>a pair of ethernet transceivers, or else find a source for the cheapest
>possible transceivers.

Back to basics, it never actually said that ethernet was necessary
(though I'd guess it's quite likely).  How about a null modem cable
and running compressed slip?  Definately cheap, but short on bandwidth.

Cheers,
-- 
\/ato - Ian Dickinson - NIC handle: ID17                              Yo! Bum 
vato@csv.warwick.ac.uk  ...!mcsun!uknet!warwick!vato                     rush
/I=I/S=Dickinson/OU=CSV/O=Warwick/PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/                 the
@c=GB@o=University of Warwick@ou=Computing Services@cn=Ian Dickinson     show
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware,comp.sys.sun.managers
From: ckd@eff.org (Christopher Davis)
Subject: Re: IPC Problems
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation Tech Central
	<1992Jul22.181038.8008@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca>
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 22:57:54 GMT

SC> == Stephen R. Czapor <steve@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca> 

 SC> I am now shopping for a disk in the 500M - 1.3G range for a 
 SC> SPARCstation 2 running SunOS 4.1.1.  I gather that there would
 SC> be trouble with a 1.3G, and since I don't have software support
 SC> I might be better off to avoid trouble for now.  This leaves me
 SC> wondering: what's the largest disk I can use without patches ?

We were able to run a Fujitsu M2266S on our old 4/110 running 4.1
without problems.  That's nominally a 1.2G drive, but it formats down to
less than 1G.  The limit is 1G, without the patch.
--
Christopher Davis * ckd@eff.org * System Administrator, EFF * +1 617 864 0665
   ``The First Amendment is often inconvenient.  But that is besides the
  point.  Inconvenience does not absolve the government of its obligation
         to tolerate speech.'' --Justice Anthony Kennedy, in 91-155
Xref: sparky comp.sys.sun.hardware:3639 comp.unix.solaris:128
From: fwp@CC.MsState.Edu (Frank Peters)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware,comp.unix.solaris
Subject: Re: SuperSparc upgrades for MP series systems w/o Solaris 2.0?
Keywords: Solaris 2.0, Viking, hosed
Date: 30 Jul 92 21:06:45 GMT
Organization: Computing Center, Mississippi State University

In article <wilson.712526112@sundance> wilson@sundance.llnl.gov (Michael Wilson - USC ) says:
: medin@cincsac.arc.nasa.gov (Milo S. Medin) writes:
: > 
: > 
: >Anyways, does anyone out there know if there is anyway to use new Viking
: >CPU's in the MP series without taking the plunge to 2.0?
: > 
: I'm certainly no expert, but my understanding is that you can run 4.1.3 on
: viking 4/6?? series machines.

You can run 4.1.3 on the model 30 and model 41 uniprocessor systems.
On the model 52 and model 54 multiprocessor (2 and 4 CPUs respectively)
systems you will need to run Solaris 2.0.  The same is true for the
equivalent SPARCstation 10 systems.
--
Frank Peters  -  UNIX Systems Programmer  -  Mississippi State University
Internet: fwp@CC.MsState.Edu  -  Phone: (601)325-7030  -  FAX: (601)325-8921
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware,comp.sys.sun.misc,alt.sys.sun
From: mike@socrates.umd.edu (Mike Santangelo (UNIX/VMS Sysmgr))
Subject: R/W Optical Drive: Need Recomendation
Summary: (see subject)
Keywords: R/W Optical,Sun SPARC,SCSI
Organization: University of Maryland University College
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 17:37:12 GMT

Looking for any recomendations on 5 1/4" Read-Write Optical Disk
Drives that are known compatible with Sun SPARC workstations.  At very
least need name/phone# of vendor and model number.  Additionally
subsystem price, cost of the removable media, storage capacity,
compliance with standards, and any experiences (good/bad) you have had
with it would be MUCH appreciated.

Thanks!
-- 
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Michael F. Santangelo                 + Internet: mike@socrates.umd.edu
Computer & Network Systems Admin      +           mike@cbl.umd.edu
CBL / CEES (Solomons Island)          +           mike@kavishar.umd.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware,misc.forsale.computers,ba.market.computers