HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: adams@pyramid.unr.edu (Brian Adams)
Newsgroups: rec.birds
Subject: Re: Kiting vs "kiting"
Date: 13 Nov 92 07:10:27 GMT
Reply-To: adams@pyramid.unr.edu (Brian Adams)
Organization: University of Nevada, Reno  Department of Computer Science


In article <1dgkqjINNjb1@corax.udac.uu.se> ignaz@astro.uu.se writes:

>Everyone will agree that this depends on the definition of the word
>hovering. Two possibilities ...
>
>1) only hummingbirds hover. ...
>
>   ... Only hummingbirds can stand near-perfectly still in the air or
>   fly sideways or backwards.

I have been a couple of feet from a Mountain Chickadee's nest hole,
which was a knothole in the side of a tool shed at a Lake Tahoe ski
resort. The Chickadees were absolutely unafraid and paid little attention
to me as they made their appearances at the nest, with food.

These birds were hovering nearly as perfectly as hummingbirds. Their
wings were a blur and they could hold position quite well. I recall
that they flew backwards and sideways, but I'm not sure they weren't
cheating a little, turning quickly enough to mislead they eye. A slow
motion film comparison to hummers would undoubtedly reveal the hummer's
superior and clean aerobatics, but the little Mountain Chickadee left
a big impression on me.

Brian Adams
From: photo@ccmail.orst.edu (Peter Freeman's Research Group)
Newsgroups: rec.birds
Subject: DDE
Date: 6 Nov 92 01:23:21 GMT
Organization: Chemistry Department, Oregon State University

Hi, I am doing post-doctoral work at Oregon State University, and I just 
thought you'd like to know that I am using DDE as a standard.  I am looking 
at the photochemical breakdown of a tetrachlorinated dioxin (no, not 2,3,7,
8- but 1,2,3,4-) and DDE has the exact same molecular weight as either 
TCDD.  Since the 2,3,7,8 compound is apparently very toxic, it has generated 
lots of interest.  For a long time what people thought was TCDD in their 
Gas Chromatograh/Mass Spectrometry spectra was actually DDE.  It is 2,2-Bis(
4-chlorophenyl)-1,1-dichloroethylene, if that means anything to you.  
Anyway, I remember reading an article once by a supposedly preeminent 
toxicologist, in some place in Maryland I believe, who purported that the 
real culprit was PCB's not DDT.  I don't recall if I have this article in my 
files at home or not.  Is there any truth to this?  Thanks.  Susie    
Newsgroups: rec.birds
From: bloc0017@student.tc.umn.edu (The DuDe)
Subject: Mpls area
Organization: University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, MN
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 18:46:23 GMT

	I live in the Mpls, Minnesota area and I was wondering if anyone
out there knows of any good places to go birding,  I woudl like to stay
close but I guess I could travel a couple of hours but I would be very
intrested in knowing of some good places around here



-- 


The DuDe
bloc0017@student.tc.umn.edu
Xref: sparky rec.birds:1886 sci.bio:4076
From: mvb@chopin.udel.edu (Maurice V. Barnhill)
Newsgroups: rec.birds,sci.bio
Subject: Re: Binocular Vision in Birds (was Trivia
Date: 8 Nov 92 11:58:59 GMT
Organization: University of Delaware

>A better trivia quiestion is:
>Name a bird with better binocular vision to the rear than to the front?
>
>I'll put an answer in a subsequent posting.
>
>Andrew Taylor

Woodcock.
Maurice Barnhill
University of Delaware
mvb@brahms.udel.edu
-- 
         <   Maurice Barnhill  -  Univ. of Delaware -  Newark DE  >
         <      mvb@brahms.udel.edu  -  FAF00911@UDELVM.BITNET    > 
         <   .sig being composed by 10 monkeys at 10 typewriters  >
         <                  Nothing useful yet....                >
Newsgroups: rec.birds
Subject: Re: The American Birding Association
From: <PXF3@psuvm.psu.edu>
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 08:36:08 EST
Organization: Penn State University

I thought I'd add my two-cents worth.  I'm active in National Audubon
Society (NAS) at the local level (conservation chair), state level
(newsletter editor, board member), and at the national level
(participant/speaker at 3 national conventions, delegate to a coalition
working on RCRA issues).

I have found that Audubon is what you make it.  If you are interested in
birding with people from your area, the Audubon field trips each chapter
schedules might be your entire involvement in NAS.  If conservation is your
thing, you may get into the local chapter or state council's activities.  If
you like the magazine (it has changed a lot lately--new editor) that might
be your Audubon experieince.  Chapters can even nominate people to serve on
the national board of directors now, so if you enjoy asking millionaires for
money that might be an option for you.  I suggest you attend a meeting or
two and see how you'd like to get involved.  (Most chapter meetings are open
to anyone.)

I think the best thing about Audubon is the people you meet.  Because of my
15-year involvement in NAS, I have birder and non-birder friends (some of
them quite dear to me) all around the country.

One more thing--the Endangered Species Act is due to be reauthorized, and
many people will try to weaken it.  People who love birds might want to join
NAS (if for no other reason) because it will be fighting hard to strengthen
the ESA.

BTW, the egret is back.  National staff does listen to the members (when
they scream), and at last year's convention in Colorado, lots of people were
wearing buttons with the beloved egret and captions like "Don't tread on me"
and "Save the egret." It worked.

Paula
--
Paula Ford   | Internet: pxf3@psuvm.psu.edu  | PO Box 674
"Snaefridh"  | Bitnet:   pxf3@psuvm          | Hollidaysburg, PA 16648
Den som har droemt Udfaerd og Daad senker ej Sejl uden med Sorg, --Bjoerson
Pennsylvania birders: It's not too late to do a questionnaire (or 2, or 3, or..
Newsgroups: rec.birds
From: tony@zoo.toronto.edu (Anthony L. Lang)
Subject: Re: a northern raptor invasion year?
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 21:04:50 GMT
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology

A week or two ago, someone asked if there will be a big
southward push of northern raptors.  The indications
from the Cranberry Marsh (Lake Ontario n. shore) and Hawk
Cliff (L. Erie n. shore) hawk watch stations is that there
is an invasion of GOSHAWKS (Accipter gentilis) developing.
Since some people think that there is a 10 year cycle, and
this is the 10th year, this makes sense.  
There have been several SNOWY OWLS (Nyctea scandiaca)
around Toronto for the past couple of weeks, and a
GYRFALCON (Falco rusticollis) has been hanging around
Burlington at the west end of L. Ontario.
A friend who works on lemmings in the Canadian arctic
says that this was a catastrophic year for lemmings
because there was no summer, so
this may be a catalyst for an invasion.

Incidentally, the count for GOLDEN EAGLES (Aquila chrysaetos)
at the Ontario hawk stations hit an all time high this
year (one station has almost 30 already).
Of course, this doesn't compare with the hundreds that
are counted at the watch west of Calgary, Alberta,
but it's pretty good for the east.  The Ontario birds
are thought to be breeding in the Gatineau hills in 
west-central Quebec.

-- 
Anthony Lang
Dept. of Zoology, Univ. of Toronto
tony@zoo.utoronto.ca
Newsgroups: rec.birds
From: lbrother@zia.aoc.nrao.edu (Larry Brothers)
Subject: Black-shouldered kites at Bosque del Apache NWR, NM
Organization: National Radio Astronomy Observatory, Socorro NM
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 08:15:59 GMT


As the subject line says, I spotted two black-shouldered kites at "the
Bosque" on Saturday (Nov. 7).  This was barely one-half hour before
sunset, along the eastern edge of the north loop road.  

As we started up the side of the loop, we almost immediately saw these
two white 'somethings' sitting side by side in a small, leafless tree.
The first (and lasting) impression was of doves.  I took a quick look
with binoculars and said "Those are...kites?!"

We got a little closer and, sure enough, two black-shouldered kites,
highly visible with white breasts turned to the wind and the afternoon
sun, preening as raptors will do.  Another couple pulled up behind us
and set up a spotting scope so, naturally, we sauntered back and had
a really close look.  The lady said they had seen them earlier,
hunting and hovering in the air.  (Uh oh, here we go - kiting
kites... :-)

I had never really considered that there might be kites in the area.
We had just come from the visitor center where Gwen dropped off a few
advance copies of the Crane Festival program (more about that later)
and she bought this year's festival tee shirt and I got a Peterson's
_Hawks_, to which I immediately turned.  It says that they are quite
common in western California (how about it Californians?), are
expanding their range and 'have been recorded' in New Mexico.  Well,
they've been recorded again.  I had looked over the weekly tally sheet
at the visitor center, looking at the eagle, falcon and accipter
count.  I didn't even take notice of any kites or if they're even
listed - gotta check on that.  (However, the list told me that the
sharp-shin I saw last month [count=0] was really a Cooper's [count=1];
I ain't so sure)

As I said, the white heads with black eye stripes gives the impression
of turtle doves, all be it giant, killer turtle doves :-).  We watched
for a while before heading on around the loop, timing ourselves to get
back to the ponds just after sunset.  Along the way, we saw the usual
red-tails and kestrels, a half-dozen turkeys, and a coyote (aka 'Bosque
retreiver') taking a siesta in the middle of a bare field.  About
one-tenth of the winter's sandhill cranes and snow geese are here already as
well as five whooping cranes, none of which we saw.  (Whoopers, that
is; plenty of geese and cranes...)

Along those lines, the local media (except Gwen, she never got the
story) is playing up the sighting of a whooper/sandhill hybrid,
something that some might say couldn't happen.  Well, there has been a
problem all along with this 'foster' flock of whooping cranes not
mating with each other.  After all these years, I can imagine one
whooper standing among the sandhills, saying to himself, "I'm going to
mate with *something*!"

As for the Crane Festival, I have the full schedule of events but I
think I'm going to do that as a separate post; this has gotten kinda
long.

Larry
lbrother@banshee.vla.nrao.edu











Newsgroups: rec.birds
From: rice@mirage.rtp.dg.com (Brian Rice)
Subject: The American Birding Association
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 02:43:32 GMT
Distribution: na
Reply-To: rice@dg-rtp.dg.com (Brian Rice)
Organization: Data General Corporation, RTP, NC.
Followup-To: rec.birds

I'm a novice birder; when it first occurred to me, a few months
ago, that maybe I'd be able to learn more about birds if I joined
one of the national birding organizations, it just so happened
that the address of the American Birding Association was ready
to hand.

So I sent in my US$35 or whatever, and, with every issue of their
periodicals (_Birding_ and _Winging It_) I receive, I become more
convinced that I made a mistake.  The take I get on the A.B.A.
from reading their stuff is that they are geared towards people
primarily concerned with racking up big lists.  Their publications
are mainly focused on exotic destinations and recondite identifi-
cation problems, and not much mention is made of conservation issues 
and avian biology--my main interests.

I can't believe the Audubon Society's name didn't pop into my
brain at the appropriate moment...I get the impression that
they might have suited my interests better.  Am I right about
this?  Are there other organizations that might be better still?

Also, I hope I haven't offended any A.B.A. partisans out there; 
in fairness, I should point out that _Birding_ does have beautiful 
photos, and, in many countries, listers have the same rights of 
free association as anyone else. B-)

--
Brian Rice   rice@dg-rtp.dg.com   +1 919 248 6328
DG/UX Software Quality Engineering
Data General Corp., Research Triangle Park, North Carolina    
"If you don't know how to pronounce a word, say it loud!" --William Strunk
From: bloc0017@student.tc.umn.edu (The DuDe)
Newsgroups: rec.birds
Subject: National Audobon Society
Date: 13 Nov 92 18:30:03 GMT
Organization: University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, MN
	I am a member of the national audobon soceity and I am very pleased
	Anyway, my two cents worth is that the National Audobon Society is a


-- 


The DuDe
bloc0017@student.tc.umn.edu
From: drintoul@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (David A Rintoul)
Newsgroups: rec.birds
Subject: Re: The American Birding Association
Date: 12 Nov 92 23:13:08 GMT
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: matt.ksu.ksu.edu

<PXF3@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:

>I thought I'd add my two-cents worth.  I'm active in National Audubon
>Society (NAS) at the local level (conservation chair), state level
>(newsletter editor, board member), and at the national level
>(participant/speaker at 3 national conventions, delegate to a coalition
>working on RCRA issues).

>I have found that Audubon is what you make it.

I second that motion.  ABA is, as noted before, devoted primarily (but
not exclusively) to the notion that a large list of species seen
in the lower 48 will get you into heaven quicker.  Audubon, due to
its local chapter organization and loose state networking, is a more
flexible and changeable beast.  A good local chapter will cover all the
bases for someone who is primarily interested in birds, but will also
allow for the expansion of that interest into areas such as lobbying
for better environmental legislation, education of youth, etc.  The
national organization, on the other hand, is (as noted by the original
poster) less dedicated to these grass-roots bird issues and more
dedicated to publishing magazines and being a high-profile "comprehensive"
conservation organization.  I have been a member of Audubon for about
17 years (on and off), am very active at the local and state level,
but have been annoyed many times by the attitudes of (some, but not all)
of the national leadership staff.


>One more thing--the Endangered Species Act is due to be reauthorized, and
>many people will try to weaken it.  People who love birds might want to join
>NAS (if for no other reason) because it will be fighting hard to strengthen
>the ESA.

As will the NWF, the Sierra Club, the NRDC etc.  Join any of these if
you want, but mostly get active in one of them.

>BTW, the egret is back.  National staff does listen to the members (when
>they scream), and at last year's convention in Colorado, lots of people were
>wearing buttons with the beloved egret and captions like "Don't tread on me"
>and "Save the egret." It worked.

Yes, the egret is back, but the mentality that nearly exiled it is
still in operation at NAS headquarters in NYC.  The egret thing was a
symptom of a larger syndrome.  Screaming by members and non-members
alike has not resulted in the abolition of the Christmas count
participation fee.  What is the difference between these examples?

Answer: $$$$$$$$$$$ 

A blue flag or an egret symbol will not make money for the
organization, but they sure want to keep those bucks rolling in from
CBC fees.

[just my $0.02 worth; the opinions expressed above are mine, but you
can have them if you want them]
-- 
Dave Rintoul            Internet: drintoul@matt.ksu.ksu.edu
Biology Division - KSU     Latitude 39.18, Longitude -96.34
Manhattan KS 66506-4901                         TCN: id2418
(913)-532-5832 or 6663                  FAX: (913)-532-6653
Newsgroups: rec.birds,sci.bio
From: andrewt@watson.ibm.com (Andrew Taylor)
Subject: Binocular Vision in Birds (was Trivia
Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1992 04:34:11 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

In article <92Nov7.140158est.251341-1@descartes.uwaterloo.ca> "\Ian Colman" <ircolman@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca> writes:
>What is the only bird that has binocular vision?

Actually most birds have binocular vision. It is most pronounced in the Owls.

A better trivia quiestion is:
Name a bird with better binocular vision to the rear than to the front?

I'll put an answer in a subsequent posting.

Andrew Taylor
Newsgroups: rec.birds
From: cfwpm@ux1.cts.eiu.edu (Bill McGown)
Subject: Wrens in Winter?
Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1992 22:23:19 GMT
Organization: Eastern Illinois University

I was getting ready to seal up the my green house for the winter. As
part of the ritual we seal the outside door off for insulation reasons.
No sooner than I had the insulation board in had getting ready to fit
it into the door frame a wren came flying through the door carrying 
a bit of paper in it's beak. It flew to an empty pot that was covered 
by some artificial ferns that I had kept and dashed into the pot. Yep,
after it left I found a nest. Now the question! What will these little
fellows do if I seal off their entrance to their nice warm winter quarters?
Keeping that door unsealed over the winter will waste a lot of heat
not to mention a few plants that I overwinter in the unheated green house.

Will they find a new place to build a nest for the winter? or? 

In the past they have nested in the green house starting in the spring 
when I opened it up. They have raised two nice clutches in the last two
years here. We really love them but this is the first time we have
seen evidence that they might be thinking (?) about overwintering here.
Or are they just getting things ready for spring?

All help in solving this moral quandary will be greatly appreciated!

Bill 
As if to just make matters worse I am looking out my study window and 
there one of the little fellows sits in my recently bare maple tree.
Damn, they are cute! She knew I was talking about her!! ;-)

-- 
**************************************************************
W. P. (Bill) McGown                     Eastern Ill. Univ
cfwpm@ux1.cts.eiu.edu                   Psychology Department
                                        Charleston, Il. 61920
Newsgroups: rec.birds
From: aforsten@aton.abo.fi (Annika Forsten INF)
Subject: Re: The American Birding Association
Organization: Abo Akademi University, Finland
	<92317.083608PXF3@psuvm.psu.edu> <1duoe4INNjsa@matt.ksu.ksu.edu>
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 13:17:36 GMT

In article <1duoe4INNjsa@matt.ksu.ksu.edu> drintoul@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (David A Rintoul) writes:

>   I second that motion.  ABA is, as noted before, devoted primarily (but
>   not exclusively) to the notion that a large list of species seen
>   in the lower 48 will get you into heaven quicker.

I don't agree with this. ABA is, IMHO, devoted to the hobby of watching
and identifying birds. Ie. to things that the active birder is interested
in (apart from conservation). The hobby of listing may be common for many
of these active birders, but in no way is it neccessary. I don't think
somebody who is just interested in listing will find much in 'Birding'
to interest them. To just list you don't need to know anything about
birds, only the number to the RBA. I also don't think there is much
to write about listing. True there is the yearly 'listissue' but most of
what ABA publishes has nothing to do with listing, but with seeing birds.

I seems to me that your attitude is that if you're not into conservation
you're a lister. I don't understand this at all. There's lots of fun with
birding even without listing. And not everybody learns identification just
to be able to tick. Even of the birders that do twitch (chase rarities),
ticking isn't neccessarily the most important thing. Seeing new birds is
always fun. Seeing birds in new plumages is also fun, but doesn't yield
a tick. Seeing rare birds is fun and even better if you find them yourselves.
Seeing other birders at the raritysites is nice too. The list is nowhere
the most important thing, it's just a small part of it all. And at least
here people don't look up to others with lots of ticks. Birders look up to
those who are good birders, whether they tick or not.

Do you have a serious problem with listers over there? Or why do you 
bring listers into everything? If ABA publishes rules on how to behave in
the field (which also apply to listers) I don't see it makes ABA a listers
society, I think it is important that somebody takes resposibility for this.

annika forsten, finland
aforsten@aton.abo.fi
From: pck@dde.dk (Peter C. R. Kristensen)
Newsgroups: rec.birds
Subject: Re: DDE
Date: 10 Nov 92 15:21:34 GMT
Organization: Dansk Data Elektronik A/S

photo@ccmail.orst.edu (Peter Freeman's Research Group) writes:

>Hi, I am doing post-doctoral work at Oregon State University, and I just 
>thought you'd like to know that I am using DDE as a standard.  I am looking 
>at the photochemical breakdown of a tetrachlorinated dioxin (no, not 2,3,7,
>8- but 1,2,3,4-) and DDE has the exact same molecular weight as either 
>TCDD.  Since the 2,3,7,8 compound is apparently very toxic, it has generated 
>lots of interest.  For a long time what people thought was TCDD in their 
>Gas Chromatograh/Mass Spectrometry spectra was actually DDE.  It is 2,2-Bis(
>4-chlorophenyl)-1,1-dichloroethylene, if that means anything to you.  
>Anyway, I remember reading an article once by a supposedly preeminent 
>toxicologist, in some place in Maryland I believe, who purported that the 
>real culprit was PCB's not DDT.  I don't recall if I have this article in my 
>files at home or not.  Is there any truth to this?  Thanks.  Susie    

Very interesting, but what is this doing under rec.birds ?
Peter
-- 
*----------------------------------------------------------------------------*
|      |   |       | Peter Roboz Kristensen      Tel:    int +45 42 84 50 11 |
|    __| __| __    | Dansk Data Elektronik A/S,  Fax:    int +45 42 84 52 20 |
|   /  |/  |/__>   | Herlev Hovedgade 199,       Telex:  35258 dde dk        |
From: drintoul@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (David A Rintoul)
Newsgroups: rec.birds
Subject: Re: The American Birding Association
Date: 13 Nov 1992 14:52:38 -0600
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: matt.ksu.ksu.edu

sandee@Think.COM (Daan Sandee) writes:

[much stuff deleted to save you from reading it again]

>|> Do you have a serious problem with listers over there? Or why do you 
>|> bring listers into everything? 
>|> 
>|> annika forsten, finland

>It is a common phenomenon in this country that non-listers sneer at
>listers. Don't let it worry you. More seriously, however, non-listers
>insinuate that listers are interested in listing to the exclusion of
>everything else, which is a vicious libel.

Hoping to stay away from anything remotely resembling sneering
or insinuation, I humbly point out that we probably all know
people who are indeed, " interested in listing to the exclusion of
everything else".  That is a truth, not a vicious libel.

>I wouldn't know that listers are a problem. It is true that they
>harass birds, upon occasions. So do non-listers. Still better than
>the collectomaniacs who want to build a complete museum collection, though.

Harassment is a problem, but not (IMHO) the major problem with listing.
I would submit that the major problem is conspicuous comsumption of
resources to see a bird in say, Texas, that the person has already seen
in large quantities in Mexico.  Flying 1500 miles to add a bird to
a state or lower 48 list is, (again, only an opinion, your opinions
may vary) a problem.  

Thanks for LISTening.
           



-- 
Dave Rintoul            Internet: drintoul@matt.ksu.ksu.edu
Biology Division - KSU     Latitude 39.18, Longitude -96.34
Manhattan KS 66506-4901                         TCN: id2418
(913)-532-5832 or 6663                  FAX: (913)-532-6653