From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish,talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: Gagging at the mess of "visser the revisionist"s lies.
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 92 16:40:01 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <14676.2b0672bb@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu> viznyuk@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu writes:

>> For nearly one thousand years, the Turkish and Kurdish people 
>> lived on their homeland - the last one hundred under the 
>> oppressive Soviet and Armenian occupation. The persecutions
>> culminated in 1914: The Armenian Government (Dashnaks and
>> Hunchaks) planned and carried out a Genocide against its 
>> Muslim subjects. 2.5 million Turks and Kurds were murdered
>> and the remainder driven out of their homeland. After one
>> thousand years, Turkish and Kurdish lands were empty of Turks
>> and Kurds. 

>  Wait a moment, Mutlu. Isn't Turkish goverment just completing
>the final solution of Kurdish question by exterminating
>Kurds in Northern Iraq and Eastern Turkey, eh ?

It could be, perhaps, that your head wasn't screwed on just right, "vizzy".
And this must be a common comprehension level shared by all the members
of the KGB. The PKK, the Marxist Kurdish Workers Party, was created by the 
KGB (vizzy's favorite clown). PKK is a pawn in the hands of the neighboring 
countries and Germany who have sinister designs on Turkiye. The PKK is 
quite active in Turkiye; they raid the villages and the military camps, 
massacre the civilians and the soldiers indiscriminately. The main victims 
of the PKK's attacks are fellow Kurds in southeastern Turkiye, who have 
been assimilated into the Turkish population, have the democratic rights
of all Turkish citizens and are represented in Turkiye's parliament
and government (the current foreign minister, Hikmet Cetin, is an 
ethnic Kurd.) It also means that I support the claims of the Turks and 
Kurds to return to their lands in x-Soviet Armenia, to determine their 
own future as a nation in their own homeland, "vizzy". Turkiye has 
prospered for over 60 years with Kurds, and I see no reason to change 
it.

When the borders of the new Turkish state were drawn up at the
start of the Turkish Independence War (1919-1923) the Kurds
were asked whether they considered themselves part of the 
ultimate Turkish homeland. At a time when the victors of the
First World War were planning to give a large part of Eastern
Anatolia to a Kurdish state, just for the heck of breaking
up Ottoman lands, the Kurds did not want to form their own
state, but made common cause with the Turks with whom they
have been living together for centuries. After almost 70
years many of them have been fully integrated in the Turkish 
society and political life. Furthermore, no ethnic or religious 
group was given minority status in Lausanne Agreement except 
non-Muslims in Turkiye and Muslims in Greece, given the status 
on the basis of reciprocity. Also recognized were special rights 
which could be described as privileges. That was how the Greek 
and Jewish communities gained a 'minority' status. It seems that 
you have not had time to study the Lausanne Agreement. Read the 
Lausanne Agreement and the Turkish Constitution before you drivel. 

Turkiye's territorial integrity is not negotiable. There are separatists 
in Corsica and in the Pyrenees, but the territorial integrity of France 
or Spain is not negotiable. Anyone who does not want to live in the 
Republic of Turkiye is free to emigrate, but Turkiye cannot be broken up
to accommodate the KGB that wants to build, of all things, a Marxist 
state for the Kurds. Not a chance.

Right from the outset certain things must be made clear to everyone. 
Again, Turkiye's territorial integrity is not negotiable. If some day 
the white-hating black extremists [or Klu Klux Klan or Nazi Armenians, 
for that matter] in this country would go far enough to want an 
independent purely black [or white or Nazi Armenian] state, I do not 
believe that the United States Government would just donate part of its 
territory for this 'noble cause.' I do not want to even imagine
what the white majority [or blacks] will do to them. The pundits
who love to construct some of the scenarios that give large chunks
of other peoples' lands to Kurds, would not be that generous with
their own lands. Have you ever heard of 'The Turkish Independence
War?'

To put it simply and bluntly, the problem cannot be solved just by
neutralizing the PKK (although that would be extremely easy for the
Turkish military), but by making the population of Eastern Anatolia
'love' the government they elect. That is the way any democracy 
should work. 

And, of course...

Source: Hassan Arfa, "The Kurds," (London, 1968), pp. 25-26.

 "When the Russian armies invaded Turkey after the Sarikamish disaster 
  of 1914, their columns were preceded by battalions of irregular 
  Armenian volunteers, both from the Caucasus and from Turkey. One of 
  these was commanded by a certain Andranik, a blood-thirsty adventurer.
  These Armenian volunteers committed all kinds of excesses, more
  than six hundred thousand Kurds being killed between 1915 and 1916 in 
  the eastern vilayets of Turkey."

Source: "U.S. Library of Congress:" 'Bristol Papers' - General Correspondence
Container #34.

 "While the Dashnaks were in power they did everything in the world to keep the
  pot boiling by attacking Kurds, Turks and Tartars; by committing outrages
  against the Moslems; by massacring the Moslems; and robbing and destroying
  their homes;....During the last two years the Armenians in Russian Caucasus
  have shown no ability to govern themselves and especially no ability to 
  govern or handle other races under their power."

Sources: (The Ottoman State, the Ministry of War), "Islam Ahalinin 
Ducar Olduklari Mezalim Hakkinda Vesaike Mustenid Malumat," (Istanbul, 1918). 
The French version: "Documents Relatifs aux Atrocites Commises par les Armeniens
sur la Population Musulmane," (Istanbul, 1919). In the Latin script: H. K.
Turkozu, ed., "Osmanli ve Sovyet Belgeleriyle Ermeni Mezalimi," (Ankara,
1982). In addition: Z. Basar, ed., "Ermenilerden Gorduklerimiz," (Ankara,
1974) and, edited by the same author, "Ermeniler Hakkinda Makaleler -
Derlemeler," (Ankara, 1978). "Askeri Tarih Belgeleri ...," Vol. 32, 83
(December 1983), document numbered 1881.
"Askeri Tarih Belgeleri ....," Vol. 31, 81 (December 1982), document
 numbered 1869.

"Those who were capable of fighting were taken away at the very beginning
 with the excuse of forced labor in road construction, they were taken
 in the direction of Sarikamis and annihilated. When the Russian army
 withdrew, a part of the remaining people was destroyed in Armenian
 massacres and cruelties: they were thrown into wells, they were locked
 in houses and burned down, they were killed with bayonets and swords, in places
 selected as butchering spots, their bellies were torn open, their lungs
 were pulled out, and girls and women were hanged by their hair after
 being subjected to every conceivable abominable act. A very small part 
 of the people who were spared these abominations far worse than the
 cruelty of the inquisition resembled living dead and were suffering
 from temporary insanity because of the dire poverty they had lived
 in and because of the frightful experiences they had been subjected to.
 Including women and children, such persons discovered so far do not
 exceed one thousand five hundred in Erzincan and thirty thousand in
 Erzurum. All the fields in Erzincan and Erzurum are untilled, everything
 that the people had has been taken away from them, and we found them
 in a destitute situation. At the present time, the people are subsisting
 on some food they obtained, impelled by starvation, from Russian storages
 left behind after their occupation of this area."
 
Serdar Argic

                     'This war quickly developed into one of extermination. 
                      We closed the roads and mountain passes that might 
                      serve as ways of escape for the Tartars [Turks] and 
                      then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)