HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: broster@europe.mcd.mot.com (Juergen Brosterhues)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Use of WM hints
Date: 6 Nov 92 12:37:52 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Workstation Div., Supermicro Systems Group, Sony Corporation

Message-Id: <9211061100.AA08287@europe.mcd.mot.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 92 11:00:35 GMT

Hi,

I try to write a software to determine all programs currently running
on a particular X-server. The software builds a .xsession file which
should start all applications with the correct parameters and a
geometry string depending on the window positions found (I know of
xlsclients, doing more or less what I want, but I'm writing the
program as an exercise).

Anyway, here's what I'm doing in my program:
	1) use XQueryTree for the RootWindow to get the toplevel windows
	2) a recursive function scans the complete window hierarchy
	3) windows are only looked at, if they have an entry for
	   WM_COMMAND
	4) for these windows, the geometry is determined (XGetGeometry),
	   and a .xsession entry is generated

All works fine so far, except one thing:
There's a desktop manager (LookingGlass) running which creates several
windows (eg, a desktop window with icons). All of the windows have the
same entry for WM_COMMAND.
Of course, I want to start LookingGlass only once, so I tried to
figure out which of the windows was the "real" application window. I
used XGetTransientForHint for this purpose, but this function always
returned 0 (zero) for the Window Id (I also tried XGetWindowProperty,
which lead to the same result).

BTW, I'm using a window manager (mwm).

Now my questions:
	1) How can I distinguish between "real" application windows
	   and additional windows created by the application ?
	2) Is there a way to detect applications which don't set the
	   WM_COMMAND hint (xman, for example, doesn't set it) ?

Thanks for your help.
-- 
Best regards,

Juergen Brosterhues (UNIX SW-Support)
Motorola MCD                      WACCVM: QUG118
Wahlerstrasse 28                  email : broster@europe.mcd.mot.com
D-4000 Duesseldorf 30             UUCP  : juebro@mcsd.europe.mcd.mot.com        
West Germany                      Tel   : (49) - (211) 658 9935        
                                  Fax   : (49) - (211) 658 9954
From: dwight@geohub.gcn.uoknor.edu (Dwight D. Moore)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Re: X Window System bibliography
Date: 12 Nov 92 13:01:00 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Geosciences Computing Network, Univ. of Oklahoma

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 19:06:06 GMT
Message-Id: <1992Nov6.190606.1481@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x,ba.windows.x,comp.windows.x.motif,misc.books.technical

In article <Bx9FBs.Aoq@ora.com>, david@ora.com (David Flanagan) writes:
|>Xref: constellation comp.windows.x:13093 ba.windows.x:97 comp.windows.x.motif:5699
|>misc.books.technical:1165
|>Newsgroups: comp.windows.x,ba.windows.x,comp.windows.x.motif,misc.books.technical
|>Path:
|
constellation!mimbres.cs.unm.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!sdd.hp.com!
!think.com!spdcc!ora.com!david
|>From: david@ora.com (David Flanagan)
|>Subject: Re: X Window System bibliography
|>Message-ID: <Bx9FBs.Aoq@ora.com>
|>Organization: O'Reilly & Associates, Inc.
|>References: <1992Nov4.215357.7506@PA.dec.com>
|>Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 20:23:52 GMT
|>Lines: 108
|>
|>Ken Lee's recently posted bibliography is certainly useful, but it has
|>always annoyed me that he lumps all of the O'Reilly & Associates books
|>together, rather than treating them indivdually.  I've asked him a
|>couple of times, without success, to do me the courtesy of including my
|>name when he mentions the books I wrote (as he does for all other
|>authors), and to include the ISBN numbers of O'Reilly & Associates books
|>(as he does with all other books) so that people can order them through
|>bookstores.
|>	David Flanagan

Ken certainly provides us with a nice, voluntary, useful service. We certainly do
appreciate it and he is under no obligation to conform to anyone's preconceptions
of what form the list should take. However, maybe if we ask him nicely....how
about it Ken?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dwight D. Moore
Geosciences Computing Network
University of Oklahoma

dwight@geohub.gcn.uoknor.edu (129.15.40.10)
These opinions do not necessarily represent the opinions of OU or the GCN.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: bernward@rcc.de (Bernward Averwald)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Re: Wanted: PCL5 displayer on terminals
Date: 10 Nov 92 03:30:10 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Home

Date: 9 Nov 92 22:15:38 GMT
Message-Id: <1992Nov9.221538.7498@rcc.de>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x,comp.os.ms-windows.misc

In article <1992Nov9.181734.21674@quando.quantum.de> spies@quarc.munic.quantum.de (Juergen Spies) writes:
>We are looking for programs to display PCL5-files (the HP printer language)
>on X-Terminals and MS-Windows PCs.
>
>Any hints on commercial products or PD-software are appreciated.
>
Please summarize.
-- 
        Bernward Averwald, Heinrichstr. 42, 4600 Dortmund 1, Germany
        Voice: +49 231 144048, FAX: +49 231 144047,  email: b@rcc.de
               Lange Hunde, Kurze Menschen - von Schmidt
From: mip@castle.ed.ac.uk (M I Parsons)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Re: X Toolkit Error: Can't Open display!!!
Date: 8 Nov 92 19:30:04 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Edinburgh University

Date: 8 Nov 92 11:46:09 GMT
Message-Id: <27845@castle.ed.ac.uk>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x.apps,comp.windows.x

In article <1dc5cdINNkdl@fnnews.fnal.gov> shah@fnalb.fnal.gov writes:
>In article <1d9meiINNfh@sacomm.schulz.unisa.edu.au>, cowleym@sacomm.schulz.unisa.edu.au () writes:
>|> 
>|> Trying to run any X-windows application from a window on our Ultrix machine, 
>|> on my VMS VAXstation, over DECNET, as myself (not the superuser) I always 
>|> get the message:  

>|> Xlib:  connection to "saccs1::0.0" refused by server
>|> Xlib:  Client is not authorized to access server
>|> X Toolkit Error: Can't Open display
>|> 
>|> I am running Motif on a VAXstation 3100.
>
>On you VMS system type following command:
>
>$ set display/create/node='nodename'/trans=decnet
>
>and then start Xapplication on remote system.
>
>Hope this helps :-)

Unfortunately I don't think it will! The VMS command:

SET DISPLAY/CREATE/NODE=nodename

sets the DECW$DISPLAY logical on the machine which is going to run
the client so that the client can find out which machine to display to.
The information from the previous poster doesn't make sense therefore.

It sounds to me like one of two things:

(1) Is the VAX you are trying to display to running VMS or EWS (ie
    only running a server and a scaled down version of the VAXeln O/S)?
    If so certain default files have to be set up correctly for you to
    display remotely - it's all badly ;-) explained in the manual!

(2) When you log into your Ultrix machine you don't by any chance log
    into another VAX along the way do you? I've found I can't display
    remotely if I do this - well written DEC software....

One thing that is always useful is to go into session manager security
and put these 3 entries in:

Node Username Transport
---- -------- ---------
*    *        *
*    *        DECNET
*    *        TCPIP

This (for yet another unknown reason) is the most likely way to connect
to a VAX (just putting * * * doesn't always work....)

Hope this helps,

Mark Parsons.
From: lesh@BRL.MIL (Steve Lesh (ISC|jamesf))
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: DESQview/X over serial
Date: 12 Nov 92 19:42:33 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Workstation Div., Supermicro Systems Group, Sony Corporation

Date:     Thu, 12 Nov 92 13:50:30 EST
Message-Id:  <9211121350.aa10153@SMOKE.BRL.MIL>

	I would like to use DESQview/X between two PCs connected via 9600
baud modems.  The only thing I've seen permitting this is a commercial soft-
ware product listing for $400.

	Any suggestions concerning a cheaper solution would be appreciated.
Please reply to:  lesh@smoke.brl.mil (I'm not a list subscriber).

Thanks,

Steven Lesh
From: desktop@strobe.atc.olivetti.com (Jon Ericson)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Test
Date: 12 Nov 92 10:31:56 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Workstation Div., Supermicro Systems Group, Sony Corporation

Message-Id: <9211120834.AA21920@strobe.ATC.Olivetti.Com>
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 0:34:30 PST
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL0]

test (please ignore)
From: mtn@ece.arizona.edu (Mike Nguyen)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Resizing
Date: 7 Nov 92 01:00:54 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: University of Arizona Dept. of Electrical and Computer Engineering

Date: 5 Nov 92 18:53:21 GMT
Message-Id: <1992Nov5.115321@ece.arizona.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x.intrinsics,comp.windows.x


In a box widget, is there anyway of not having the window resize itself if
say, a label widget was made a child of the box widget.  In my case, I have
a "quit" command widget that is a child of a "canvas" box widget.  However,
when the quit window is realize, the canvas window shrinks to the size of
the quit command widget.
Can anybody offer any suggestions?

Thanks in advance.

Mike Nguyen
mtn@desert-gw.ece.arizona.edu
From: ccjg@Hyaena.ru.ac.za (John Goetsch)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: X-windows "Hello World" program wanted
Date: 6 Nov 92 00:10:28 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa

Date: 2 Nov 92 14:07:08 GMT
Message-Id: <ccjg.720713228@Hyaena>
Newsgroups: comp.sources.wanted,comp.windows.x

Hi,

I am looking for the source code for a typical x-windows version of the
"hello world" program....


Anybody that can help me with this?

Thanks in advance.

John

John Goetsch                              Internet:  ccjg@hyaena.ru.ac.za  
Computing Centre, Rhodes University       Fax:       (0461) 25049 
P.O. Box 94, Grahamstown, 6140, RSA       Telephone: (0461) 22023 ext 286
--
John Goetsch                              Internet:  ccjg@hyaena.ru.ac.za  
Computing Centre, Rhodes University       Fax:       (0461) 25049 
P.O. Box 94, Grahamstown, 6140, RSA       Telephone: (0461) 22023 ext 286
From: qarl@wuecl.wustl.edu (Karl Stiefvater)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: HELP: Has anyone written The Ultimate XBiff? (Y.A.B.)
Date: 9 Nov 92 13:06:32 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis MO

Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1992 20:27:29 GMT
Message-Id: <1992Nov4.202729.11561@wuecl.wustl.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x

I'm looking for a version of Xbiff which has the following properties:

	1)  It determines if there is new mail by reading the mail spool
		file, and looking at the "status" field.

	2)  It uses stat(2) before it reads the mail spool file.

	3)  It uses the Pixmap (xpm) format for color images.

	4)  It allows me to specify diffent images depending on the
		contents of the spool.


I no such creature exists, would someone be willing to beef up their version?

Much thanks,
- Karl
From: thole@cs.rulimburg.nl (Johan Thole)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: X on two screens using cgfour and bwtwo
Date: 4 Nov 92 20:06:03 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: University of Limburg, Maastricht

Date: 4 Nov 92 10:34:12 GMT
Message-Id: <thole.720873252@cs.rulimburg.nl>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.admin,comp.windows.x

Hello,

We have just installed SunOS 4.1.1 (previously running SunOS 4.1)
on our Sun3's and have re-installed
X11R4 and Motif. Our Sun3/60's have a bwtwo and a cgfour framebuffer.

The previous sysadmin (not working here anymore) had installed X11R4 so
that X was running on two screens (a color-screen on the cgfour and a
bw-screen on the bwtwo). We have not been able to get this behaviour back
after the new installation. Have we configured something in the wrong way?

Any help would be very appreciated!

Johan Thole.

P.S. We can run sunview on two screens.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Johan Thole (thole@cs.rulimburg.nl) | The wrong side of a door is
University of Limburg               | where the dog is.
Dept. of computer science           | #include <std/disclaimer.h>
From: ip217@brems.ii.uib.no (Torgeir Veimo)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Re: Compiling aXe. anything wrong?
Date: 11 Nov 92 14:02:49 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: University of Bergen, Norway

Date: 11 Nov 92 10:43:23 GMT
Message-Id: <1992Nov11.104323.11449@alf.uib.no>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x

After trying several things to get aXe version 3.1 to compile on our sun 3/50s with
sunos 4.1.1 and X11R4, i added

#include <X11/Object.h>
#include <X11/ObjectP.h>

in the AxeEditor.c file. Now Axe compield just fine. I don't know why i had to include
these, but maybe it have got to do with the headerfiles wehave in our /usr/include/X11
at this university. I don't know wether these are the R4 version, since I'm only
studying here...

No I just have to get the installation right.... :)

-- 
Torgeir Veimo

-----------------------------------------------------
Studying at the University of Bergen

"...I'm gona wave my freak flag high!" (Jimi Hendrix)

"word wrap? you must be kidding..."
-----------------------------------------------------
From: dan@moon.imp.ch (Daniel Mueller)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: RGB->HSV/HSV->RGB conversion
Date: 6 Nov 92 12:09:34 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: ImproWare AG

Date: 4 Nov 92 14:40:36 GMT
Message-Id: <Bx74rp.HDq@impch.imp.ch>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x



Hi there,


I want to write a conversion from rgb to hsv and hsv to rgb. Does anyone
know a book for background information or better a public domain source 
code from where i can get ne necessary informations?


Please answer me by e-mail, if possible: dan@imp.ch


				many thanks in advance
From: strauss@melpar.lcs.mit.edu (Audrey Strauss)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Allocating a static colormap with X11R5
Date: 7 Nov 92 21:54:58 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: E-Systems, Melpar Division

Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1992 23:46:39 GMT
Message-Id: <Bx44ps.5D8@melpar>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x

	I'm attempting to use X11R5 with the MIT server, but am having
difficulty allocating a static colormap for the root window, when I kick
off the server.  The OpenWindows3.0 server (xnews) took a command line arg 
which doesn't seem to be an option with the MIT server (startx). Is there
any simple way of doing setting up the colormap without making the cmap myself
and attaching multiple tasks to it?? Any suggestions?  Also, any ideas re.
dual screen protocol when starting up the MIT server?

			I'll be anxiously awating your replies...
				Audrey Strauss
From: jabuck@diamond.nswc.navy.mil (Jerald A. Buck (N62))
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Shared Memory Extension to X11 information please
Date: 8 Nov 92 11:20:19 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: NAVSWC DD White Oak Det.

Date: 6 Nov 92 18:20:15 GMT
Message-Id: <1992Nov6.182015.29549@relay.nswc.navy.mil>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x,comp.windows.x.apps


	I am looking for information on the Shared Memory
Extension to X11.  If anyone could send me information on
how to utilize the shared memory extensions, such as sample
code, tips, pointers, or tell where I could find some 
doucmentation or books on the subject.  Any information would
be much appreciated.

Please respond by email: jabuck@nswc-wo.nswc.navy.mil

Thanks in advance.

			- Jerry -
-- 

************************************************
*  Jerald A. Buck                              *
*  Naval Surface Warfare Center                *
*  Dahlgren Division White Oak Detachment      *
*  Code N62                                    *
*  10901 New Hampshire Ave.                    *
*  Silver Spring, MD 20903-5000                *
*  Email: jabuck@nswc-wo.nswc.navy.mil         *
*  Phone: 301-394-5192                         *
************************************************
From: xm9@sdcc12.ucsd.edu (richard g. adair)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Re: X Under Windows NT
Date: 11 Nov 92 21:25:22 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Arete Associates, San Diego

Date: 5 Nov 92 15:25:37 GMT
Message-Id: <40601@sdcc12.ucsd.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x,comp.sys.dec,comp.windows.news

In article <rtonoi0@zola.esd.sgi.com> msc@ramoth.esd.sgi.com (Mark Callow) writes:
>
>> At NASA we run our realtime flight simulator on an SGI doing the
>> simulation models in one CPU and out the window visuals in another.
>> The entire frame runs in under 1ms,  I think you have experience
>> with the wrong machine running X.
>This example proves nothing.  The flight simulator is not an X program.
>If it was an X program there is no way you could generate frames in
>"under 1 ms".

Vendors who do fast X graphics (SGI, HP, etc.) use an extended X
driver that creates a transparent "hole" in the X server for special
graphics.  For example, the HP uses a 4 plane overlay for X on their
SRX series of graphics tops.  The remaining 24 planes are not
controlled by the X server.  When you make a graphics window on the
24 plane device using HP's Starbase graphics, a corresponding
transparent hole opens in the X server so you can see it.  In any
event, the graphics are displayed at DMA speed without intervention
by the X server.

By the by, the HP SRX blows the tails off the SGI 4D stuff, and the
SRX is now an antique!  What the HP does to a VAXStation is enough to
get the person responsible for purchase fired!

Tony Burzio
Arete Associates
San Diego, CA
From: iperrigo@csr.UVic.CA (Ian Perrigo)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: C++ classes for X?
Date: 8 Nov 92 20:48:53 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: University of Victoria

Date: Tue, 3 Nov 92 21:56:22 GMT
Message-Id: <1992Nov3.215622.29907@sol.UVic.CA>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x

Does anyone know of any good (free or cheap) C++ class libraries that encapsulate the X interface and can be compiled by g++? Has anyone had any success with UIT & g++? I'd be interested in hearing any success/horror stories of the like. Email or posting would be fine, my
address is: iperrigo@cs.uvic.ca

Much thanks in advance...
Ian.
From: wsadkin@bbn.com (Will Sadkin)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Anyone have a scrolling menu widget?
Date: 8 Nov 92 11:28:07 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Workstation Div., Supermicro Systems Group, Sony Corporation

Date: 3 Nov 92 19:54:57 GMT
Message-Id: <lfdm8hINNobj@news.bbn.com>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x,comp.windows.x.apps


-- 
I have a real-time application in which I want to present a frequently
updating set of information to choose from.   Has anyone written a
"scrolling menu" widget?  My department and I have been using Athena
only for some time now, so this would be the preferred environment for
such a beastie.  We are also running on SGI's, which, to my knowledge,
have not been upgraded to R5 yet.

Please respond via email, as with the present volume of traffic and 
my schedule, I cannot keep up with comp.windows.x.  

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Will Sadkin                | "Never draw what you can copy;
BBN Systems & Technologies |  never copy what you can trace;
wsadkin@bbn.com            |  never trace what you can cut out and paste down!"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: dov@menora.weizmann.ac.il (Dov Grobgeld)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Re: 8 bit font in xterm
Date: 5 Nov 92 07:31:56 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Weizmann Institute of Science, Computation Center.

Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1992 21:36:24 GMT
Message-Id: <1992Oct31.213624.7463@wisipc.weizmann.ac.il>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x

mouse@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu (der Mouse) writes:
: In article <1992Oct28.120759.12711@wisipc.weizmann.ac.il>, dov@menora.weizmann.ac.il (Dov Grobgeld) writes:
:
: > My xterm (X11R5) doesn't show any characters with the high bit set
: > (character codes 128-255).
:
: Insufficient information.  What happens to them?  Do they show up as
: spaces?  As blobs?  As the corresponding characters with the high bit
: stripped?
:
Ok, here comes more complete information. First of all, it only
affects the characters in the range 128-159, but in the rest of
this articles I will still refer to them as "eightbit" characters.

The eight bit characters are words in a text file with a space and
a comma inbetween them. E.g. "xxxx, xxxx, xxxx" where x represents
an eight bit character. What is output to the screen is ", , ".

I put my aixterm in sleep mode with the command: sleep 999999 and
pasted a few of the eightbit characters to the xterm window. No
luck. They are eaten up..

: In the first two cases, I would suspect a problem with the fonts; in
: the third case, I would suspect a problem with your tty modes (probably
: set to strip the high bit on output).
:
: 					der Mouse
:
: 			    mouse@larry.mcrcim.mcgill.edu

Neither of your proposed solution is correct, I'm afraid. :-(

--
                                                        ___   ___
                                                      /  o  \   o \
Dov Grobgeld                                         ( o  o  ) o   |
The Weizmann Institute of Science, Israel             \  o  /o  o /
"Where the tree of wisdom carries oranges"              | |   | |
                                                       _| |_ _| |_
From: klee@wsl.dec.com (Ken Lee)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Re: Want to overlay bitmap onto a pixmap
Date: 8 Nov 92 10:40:25 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: DEC Western Software Laboratory

Date: Tue, 3 Nov 92 18:27:21 GMT
Message-Id: <1992Nov3.182721.2621@PA.dec.com>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x

|> I have an application where a 3D wireframe object is rendered
|> into a 1 bit deep pixmap and a shaded version is rendered into
|> an 8 bit deep pixmap.  I'd like to overlay the wireframe image
|> onto the shaded image, and have the wire frame appear in white
|> on top, with the original black parts of the wireframe not
|> altering the shaded image.  I've tried using an XCopyArea
|> with a GCFunction of GXor but that doesn't seem to work.

XCopyArea requires that the source and destination have the same
depth.  Try XCopyPlane, specifying a foreground of white and
a background of 0.

-- 
Ken Lee
DEC Western Software Laboratory, Palo Alto, Calif.
Internet: klee@wsl.dec.com
uucp: uunet!decwrl!klee
From: ehgasm2@uts.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Marshall)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Re: Editors on X
Date: 4 Nov 92 23:50:30 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Manchester Computing Centre, Manchester, England, M13 9PL.

Date: 31 Oct 92 14:28:56 GMT
Message-Id: <5993@mccuts.uts.mcc.ac.uk>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x

In article <1992Oct29.130324@se28.wg2.waii.com> starr@wg2.waii.com writes:
>In article <11868.9210281607@irix.le.ac.uk>, cms2@leicester.ac.UK ("Dr C.M. Smith") writes:
>|> Is there a better editor than xedit available?
>vi, emacs, teco, edlin, ed, brief, crisp, cat, etc.

What is `etc'?  Never heard of that one!

Anyhow, you forgot `epoch' - emacs with steroids.  So good, that dispite its
problems, I can't go back to emacs.  Also `lemacs' from Lucid, which is free
and based on the yet-to-be released emacs-19.  Epoch is based on emacs-18.

Simon.


-- 
Simon Marshall, Dept. of Computer Science, University of Hull, Hull HU6 7RX, UK
  "Football isn't about life and death.  It's more important than that." Bill
Email: S.Marshall@Hull.ac.uk    Phone: +44 482 465181    Fax: 466666   Shankley