From: bes@cco.caltech.edu (Behnam Sadeghi)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.iranian
Subject: Re: Islamic Hypocrites.
Date: 29 Aug 92 23:25:40 GMT
Article-I.D.: cco.1992Aug29.232540.1566
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena

In article <17epsoINN2u4@agate.berkeley.edu> ceg@dec-4.CE.Berkeley.EDU writes:
>Behnam Sadeghi, in his infinite wisdom, writes:
>
>>1.  It doesn't require a historian to know that Qarebagh (Karabak)
>>    belongs to Azerbaijan.
>
>Oh God, the woods are full of linguists these days. Look Armenians
>don't call the region Karabagh, we call it Artsakh as it was called
>a thousand years before Turkic tribes arrived in the area from Central
>Asia. But, lets follow your brilliant logic here and see what happens.
>The Soviet name for the region is Nagorno-Kara-Bagh. The etymology is
>as follows: Nagorno (Russian for mountainous), Kara (Turkish for black)
>and Bagh (Arabic, borrowed by Farsi, meaning garden). So, then according
>to you, it should belong to Russians, Arabs and Turks! Now Azer-baijan:
>Azer (Farsi, meaning fire) Baijan (From Farsi, corruption of Payandeh,
>i.e. permanent) ... remember the days of Zoroaster? So then, all of
>Azerbaijan should belong to Iran. By the way, should we give all Iranian
>regions/towns with Turkish names to the Turks? You have an Arab's last
>name, does that make you an Arab?

I guess it's very convinient for you to falsely attribute an illogical
line of reasoning to me and then try demolishing that arguement!  Could
you please point out where I reasoned as you claim I did?

>>2.  Azerbaijan has offered cultural autonomy to Qarebagh.
>
>Yeah right! Armenians are going to get cultural autonomy from the
>same Azeri government that just a couple days ago started bombing
>civilian areas of the regional capital, Stepanakert, with fixed wing
>aircraft!!!

As long as Armenian separatists occupy Karabagh by force, Azerbaijan
has every right to bomb them.  However, if the Armenians in the 
enclave accept Azeri sovereignity and give up the war against 
Azerbaijan, they will be given cultural autonomy.

>Where you in the cheering stands in 1988 during the Sumgait pogroms
>and in 1989 during the Baku pogroms? Are you just uninformed? Can you
>please explain where the Armenian populations of the regions of Sumgait,
>Baku, Shamakhi, Getashen, Martunashen, Shahumian and Mardakert of
>Azerbaijan are today? Hint: They are not there anymore. Call it
>"cleansing" if you wish. 

During the period that you mention atrocities were committed by 
both sides.  However, what I wrote about the worst atrocity in
this conflict is true.

>Do the 400,000 Talysh of Azerbaijan, an Iranian speaking people
>with language similar to Gilaki and Mazendarani, have cultural
>autonomy? Have you even heard of them? Or are you just plain
>ignorant?!

As far as I know, Azerbaijan has offered cultural autonomy to
Karabagh.  I have no idea of it has offerred the same thing to any
other groups.  Certainly, the latter is irrelevant to the point under
discussion because we're talking about Karabagh and Armenians, not
any other ethnic group.

>If you don't like Uncle Sam, why don't you go back to Iran and help
>liberate Karabagh for the Azeris. Once thats done, you can help 
>Azerbaijan "liberate" Iranian Western and Eastern Azerbaijan.
>And Behnam, here you could enlist the help of Turkish military advisors.
>Oh, Farsi speakers don't have to worry. Azerbaijan will give them
>cultural autonomy, the same kind of cultural autonomy that the Arabs
>gave the Persians and the Turks are giving the Kurds. 

You have an interesting way of changing the subject.  But now that
you asked, yes, I'm going to Iran.  Also, Iranian Azeris are already
liberated.  For example, Iran's supreme leader is an Azeri himself.

>CEG
>
>PS Behnam, while you are being such a humanitarian, why don't you
>give cultural autonomy to Iran's Kurds, Bakhtiaris, Lurs, Qashqai,
>Qarapaq, Afshars, Baluch, Turkoman, Arabs, and not to forget full
>cultural autonomy for the Azeris! We'll talk about the kind of 
>cultural autonomy Armenians have in Iran later...

I still don't see what Azerbaijan's offer to Karabagh has to do with
the status of ethnic groups in Iran!  Could you elaborate please?
Once you establish what the connection is (if any) could you then explain to
us what the status of all the Iranian ethnic groups you mentioned is?

Obviously, you're trying to diffuse my point by confusing it with
other unrelated issues.

Behnam Sadeghi

P.S.  You write:  "Behnam, while you're being such a humanitarian, why
don't you give cultural autonomy to ... [long list of ethnicities]."

For the record, I don't have the power to give or deny cultural autonomy
Newsgroups: soc.culture.iranian