HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: steph@cs.uiuc.edu (Dale Stephenson)
Subject: Re: Errors (was Re: Robinson and Boyer)
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 23:50:55 GMT

In <1992Apr12.025345.2652@Princeton.EDU> niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent) writes:

>In <1992Apr11.233104.7386@m.cs.uiuc.edu> steph@cs.uiuc.edu (Dale Stephenson):
>>Here's a legitimate use of errors:

>>Calculating ERAs.

>I'm not so sure about that.  It's pretty arbitrary, even if the official
>scorers aren't.   Besides the obvious flaw with ERA (a pitcher can give
>up 10 runs on 4 hrs after a 2 out error and not be charged with any of them)
>there are other problems.  Lets suppose the second baseman is shifted
>behind second base, and the ball is hit to his normal position.  Player
>A is really fast, runs over to the normal position, and then boots the
>ball.  Player B never comes close to the ball.  In one case, the pitcher
>is absolved of all responsibility, even though each case has the same result.

I didn't say ERA was necessarily a good stat, anymore than RBI is.  However,
since we keep track of it, we definitely need errors to help calculate it.

>>Here is a (fictitious) situation in which error totals actually tell 
>>you something about the fielders:

>>		Inn	Chnces	Errors
>>Murphy, RF	700	700	  2
>>Lucy,   RF	700	700	100

>>Assuming ballpark effects, L/R effects, and equivalent leagues :->, we
>>can tell that we have two outfielders with equivalent range, but one
>>is a lot better than the other.

>Yes, but we know that without errors.  Chances = PO + A + E.  Thus,
>Murphy has 698 PO + A, while Lucy has 600.  Why do you even need to
>bring the errors into it?

We don't *need* errors, but in this situation we can use errors.  Since
chances and errors tell us one is better, why did you need to bring
assists and putouts into it?  :->

I'm not claiming that errors are particularly useful, or that errors
give you *any* information you can't get from another source.  However,
since errors clearly *can* be used in the hypothetical situation, it
strikes me as a bit silly to imply that errors can convey no information.
-- 
Dale J. Stephenson |*| (steph@cs.uiuc.edu) |*| Gigabit Study Group 

  "It is considered good to look wise, especially when not 
   overburdened with information" -- J. Golden Kimball
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: s5170748@deimos.ucc.umass.edu (THAN LEE)
Subject: Re: Hall of Fame trivia (easy)
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 21:15:00 GMT

In article <1992Apr6.212822.14228@cs.rose-hulman.edu>, rickert@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (John H. Rickert) writes...
>In article <6APR199202443392@deimos.ucc.umass.edu>  
>s5170748@deimos.ucc.umass.edu (THAN LEE) writes:
>> 
>>   OK, here's a simple trivia question...what surname has the most inductees
>> into the HOF?  And, can you name them all?
> 
>How about Frank, Brooks and Jackie Robinson?

  You have the right name, but you forgot about Wilbert Robinson, manager
of many mediocre and sometimes stellar teams in the first 1/4 of the
century.

Than Lee
From: niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Henderson vs. Ryan
Date: 16 Apr 92 21:37:31 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Princeton University
Originator: news@ernie.Princeton.EDU

In article <1992Apr16.151912.7420@daffy.cs.wisc.edu> justus@cat4.cs.wisc.edu (Curtis Justus) writes:
>Hey... I've been reading some of the articles on the subject, and I think
>there is something else that could be looked at...

>Let's compare attitudes...  Henderson is constantly accused of not trying
>his hardest.  It is great that he does as well as he does while sluffing
>off, but I take away a lot of credit from a guy who needs a wheelbarrow
>full of money from his teammates in order to "lure" him to spring training.

He's accused of 'not trying,' but I don't believe it.  
(1) I don't believe the mediots have any clue whether he is or isn't.
(2) I don't care whether he tries, as long as he performs, which he does.
(3) If he does what he does without trying, that would mean that if he *did*
    try, he'd make the Babe look like a little leaguer.  (Ok, so I'm
    exaggerating a *little*, but you get the point.)

>Now let's look at Ryan... he is a rather low-keyed guy.  Sure he does a bunch
>of commercials, but that has only happened lately, not when he was the age
>Henderson is now.   Give Ryan credit as a role model, not Henderson who thinks
>it is, as another discussion in the group says, "a ME sport."

Why?  I don't WANT Ryan to be a role model.  I admire him AS A PITCHER.
He isn't babysitting my kids (actually, I don't HAVE any kids), and I'm
not a pitcher.  So why would I want him to be a role model?

Incidentally, it's only in the last 3 years that Ryan was even respected.
Until he came to the Rangers, he was just "a glorified .500 pitcher," and
a pitcher "who only cares about padding his strikeout stats, rather than
winning."  There were many who predicted he was going to fall on his
face once he had to face DHs instead of pitchers without the protection
of the Astrodome.

>cj

-- 
David M. Nieporent              |ALEast 92: 1.Baltimore 2.Boston 3.Toronto
niepornt@phoenix.princeton.edu  |4. Detroit 5.Milwaukee 6.NY 8.Cleveland
"Baseball stathead, and card-carrying member of the ACLU.  And proud of it."
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: ac985@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Joel Tscherne)
Subject: Re: Recommendation for a periodical containing COMPLETE stats
Reply-To: ac985@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Joel Tscherne)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 92 17:40:48 GMT


In a previous article, clare@bissun.kodak.com (Bill Clare) says:

>
>I am looking for a recommendation for a periodical (preferably a cheap one) 
>which contains COMPLETE statistics including HRs, RBIs, SBs, wins, and 
>saves for a pool I am in.  I need to know the whole league, not just
>top <n> players (e.g. my fiancee has Carlton Fisk, and sure as hell he
>is not going to be in any reasonable sized <n> for top <n> stolen bases).

Two choices, neither of them expensive.  USA Today publishes complete
statistics for each team.  They publish American League on Tuesdays and
National League on Wednesdays.  USA Today costs 50 cents per day.

The other source is USA Today Baseball Weekly.  It comes out on
Wednesday and costs $1.00 per issue.

So depending on whether you need both leagues or not, it should cost you
no more than $1.00 per week.


>

-- 
          JOEL TSCHERNE - Internet: ac985@cleveland.Freenet.edu 
=============================================================================
             "We always earned our money the old-fashioned way: 
                  We beat people for it." --Paul Ellering 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: CAVGEOE@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu
Subject: Re: '92 edition of Giants
Organization: Yale University
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 15:48:39 EDT

In article <8psjh4f.mzimmers@netcom.com>
mzimmers@netcom.com (Michael Zimmers) writes:
 
>
>
>After watching the Giants knock around the Braves' pitching staff
>tonight, a couple of thoughts crossed my fertile mind...
>
>1)  This season's edition of the team has significantly more speed
>    than any other in quite awhile (early '70s, perhaps).  Fielding
>    a lineup that includes Lewis, Felder, McGee and Clayton gives
>    them team speed that is, well, almost acceptable, and *much*
>    better than the stone-laden teams of late.  I realize that an
>    outfield of Felder, Lewis and McGee is a bit light on punch (OK,
>    so it's very light on punch), but it's fun to see the team run a
>    bit.
>
SanFran played a nice game last night (it'll take more than one loss
to make me bitter towards the Giants after the last weekend last year
-- maybe last night was part of the deal in that conspiracy last year
where everyone tanked their games except Frisco? :-)), but the season
is *very* young.  Lewis, Felder and Clayton have a lot to prove (pro-
jected OPS: Lewis .661, Felder .638, Clayton .623!), and we haven't
seen the Giants' 4th and 5th starters yet.  Still, last night and
Opening Night (always capitalize names of holidays!) at Dodger Stadium
looked very impressive for the Giants -- time for a letdown tonight!
 
Jeff
GO BRAVES! -- 2-1
 
 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: justus@cat4.cs.wisc.edu (Curtis Justus)
Subject: Re: Henderson vs. Ryan
Organization: University of Wisconsin, Madison -- Computer Sciences Dept.
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 15:19:12 GMT

Hey... I've been reading some of the articles on the subject, and I think
there is something else that could be looked at...

Let's compare attitudes...  Henderson is constantly accused of not trying
his hardest.  It is great that he does as well as he does while sluffing
off, but I take away a lot of credit from a guy who needs a wheelbarrow
full of money from his teammates in order to "lure" him to spring training.

Now let's look at Ryan... he is a rather low-keyed guy.  Sure he does a bunch
of commercials, but that has only happened lately, not when he was the age
Henderson is now.   Give Ryan credit as a role model, not Henderson who thinks
it is, as another discussion in the group says, "a ME sport."

cj
-- 
*****************************************************************************
*                             *                                             *
* Curtis Justus               *  "Would someone get Gary Sheffield his      *
* justus@garfield.cs.wisc.edu *   bottle?"  Rick McKinley, no one important *
*                             *                                             *
*           "I love you, too - but I'm not going to smile :)"               *
* ***************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: texdude@camelot.bradley.edu (Philip Allen)
Subject: Re: Bobby Valentine uses Al Newman to leadoff!
Organization: Bradley University
Distribution: na
Date:  9 Apr 92 17:33:44 GMT

In <ku6eu2INN922@saltillo.cs.utexas.edu> colaluca@cs.utexas.edu (Mark Colaluca) writes:

>Busby also mentions
>that Franco will be the leadoff when healthy, though I fail to
>see how bum knees help your team in a leadoff role...

Franco has always had bad knees.  He often takes a day or two off if the
Rangers have been playing in a lot of artificial turf parks because of his
knee problems.  His injuries have never (to my knowledge) been as bad as
they are now, last year he stole 30+ bases with bad knees.  I always wanted
Franco to lead off.  He takes a lot of pitches.  He can steal bases.  The
only problem is he doesn't run out infield grounders (well he runs, just
not very fast).


Phil

From: rcodo@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Rob Codo)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 19:08:52 GMT
Subject: Re: Chicago White Sox
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball

>**  First, I would like to heartily thank Larry Himes, the Cubs
**> GM for making a great trade, in my opinion, to help the White Sox.  People
**> can say what they wish, but by getting George Bell for Sammy Sosa and Ken
**> Patterson, I think the White Sox seriously ripped the Cubs off. 

    I agree.  I am not a Cub fan , infact I root for who ever they are 
    playing.  But being a lifelong, die-hard Chi-sox fan ( I still
    think Richie "call me Dick" Allen was one of the best ever) even
    I felt bad for the Cubs.  
    
    It was the feeling you get when you just got a hot stock tip, or
    you just got an unbeleivable deal on a used car. You know you 
    should not do it - but you do anyway.  Oh well -

**> just want to go on record saying that the White Sox are going to win the
**> division this year, and probably the World Series. This is their year.

    I hope - You can never count Oakalnd out and lets not forget the
    World Champion Twins.

    Rcodo
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Sabo out
From: kstith@eve.wright.edu ()
Date: 8 Apr 92 12:22:46 EST
Distribution: usa
Organization: Wright State University

Bad news for the Reds....Sabo is going to be out 2 weeks with his
sprained ankle. They're probably going to put him on the disabled list
and bring up Brantley. So Roberts is now going to be moved to 3rd and
Doran will play 2nd. Right now they are still in good shape...but
another infield injury will hurt.

				Ken
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: 1991 AL East Pennant Race
Date: 16 Apr 92 17:32:41 GMT
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

In article <1992Apr16.001903.5991@e2big.mko.dec.com> gobrien@trooa.enet.dec.com (Glenn O'Brien) writes:
>Rather than join in yet another pointless 
>argument about the merits of the 1992 
>Blue Jays, I would like address the margin of victory last year.  Toronto won 
>by 7 games over both Boston and Detroit.  And Boston did not sit in first from 
>June to October (Detroit tied for one day).  The Jays never gave up the lead.  
>The above makes it appear they just made it to the playoffs.  While the Jays 
>won 91 games, the Sox were three losses from a .500 record.

But it wasn't quite the blowout you make it out to be.  

Date		Sox record	Games behind Jays
mid-May		18-9		Two ahead of Toronto
June 19		33-30		0
July 15		43-32		8.5
August 7	50-57		11.5

Then, the Red Sox blow out Toronto in a four-game sweep where they hit .399
as a team, scoring 39 runs.  This is in Toronto, mind you.

August 12	54-57		7
August 22	59-58		3.5

Toronto gets hot...

September 1	66-63		6.5

Then the Sox win 15 out of 19

September 21	81-67		0.5

And, okay, they finish 3-11, and Toronto kept winning.  But the Blue Jays
were not very far from permanently nailing in their reputation as chokers.
They played consistently, for the most part, but it's not untrue to say
that they won the pennant in the last days of the season.  The Sox came
very close to pulling off one of the great come-from-behind pennant
races of all time.
-- 
Ted Frank          + "Question whether attorney's filing claim for 'stud fee'
1307 E 60 St, #109 +  as countersuit to paternity action was improperly
U o' C Law Skool   +  motivated required remand."  Headnote 9, Committee on
Chi, IL 60637      +  Legal Ethics of WVa State Bar v Douglas, 370 SE2d 325.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: dxf12@po.CWRU.Edu (Douglas Fowler)
Subject: Re: Cubs farm news & trivia question
Reply-To: dxf12@po.CWRU.Edu (Douglas Fowler)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 92 15:07:07 GMT


In a previous article, twap8@isuvax.iastate.edu (Mike McNarney) says:

>LI-Cub (thatIowa Cub, that is) Lance Dickson was unable to make his opening day start against Louisville due to stuiffness in his leftshoulderhoulder stiffness. No other informationm  was
>immediately available. Another note of interest: Derrick May has now hit two
>home runs in two games, half (I think) of his 1991 total. Derrick May
>detractors, eat my shorts. AlsoSpeaking While I'm gloating, how about Sosa's throw to
>get Gilkey at homer  Friday atv  Wrigley Field? Sure, the bullpen eventually
>coughed up the game, but it was an exciting play.
>
>And now I'll get into the inane triva via question departmenttrend: What player was
>Carl Yastrenskiemski's defensive replacement in his last game in 1983?
>Hint: Good luck one and all. 
>
     What about Dave Stapleton?
     Hope this reads okay; somethings batty with my editor; I get all these
control-H's in certain places.
>---------------------------
>Mike McNarney
>twap8@isuvax.bitnet
>Iowa State University, USENET censotrs
>Ames, IA 50013-0007
>515/296-8797
>
-- 
Doug Fowler: dxf12@po.CWRU.edu      :    "Every baby born into the world is
Real home: Canton, Ohio             :  finer than the last."--Charles Dickens
 Trying to follow in the path of our :     "A baby is an inestimable
Lord;anything close will be a success:  blessing and bother."--Mark Twain
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: dxf12@po.CWRU.Edu (Douglas Fowler)
Subject: Re: 15 day DL...WHY?
Reply-To: dxf12@po.CWRU.Edu (Douglas Fowler)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 92 14:36:50 GMT


In a previous article, farenebt@craft.camp.clarkson.edu (Big Bri) says:

>Why is it called the 15 day DL when some players stay on it much or
>most of the season? For instance, Orel Hershiser was on the 15 day DL
>from April 1990 to summer 1991 straight through. I know the teams just
>keep renewing putting a player on it but it sounds kind of stupid to say
>"Hal Morris was put on the 15 day DL and will be out 4-6 weeks...."

     There are only a few spots on the DL for each team; I think you can have
3 on the 15-day, 3 on the 21-day, and 4 on the 60-day one. (Or, I could be
way off on the figures.)  Hence, Hershiser may have been on the 15-day one
because of a number of other injuries, or because they anticipate other
possible injuries.  You can also move a player from one DL to another, I
believe.
     The Resd may have decided 60 days was too long (that is 2 months), and
wanted to leave room on the 21-day one in case Bill Doran's back leads to
traction or something and sidelines him for a few weeks.  Also, Sabo is out
(I think he's on the 21-day one), and so is Larkin. (Don't know the extent of
his injury.)
     BTW, there's soem really great shennanigans involving the DL and Eric
Plunk in Sparky Lyle's book "The Year I Owned the Yankees," where PLunk is
moved around so many times that the league loses track of him on their
computers and informs the Yankees he can't pitch because, according to the
league office, he doesn't exist.  That's a hilarious book.
-- 
Doug Fowler: dxf12@po.CWRU.edu      :    "Every baby born into the world is
Real home: Canton, Ohio             :  finer than the last."--Charles Dickens
 Trying to follow in the path of our :     "A baby is an inestimable
Lord;anything close will be a success:  blessing and bother."--Mark Twain
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: dfl@math.wayne.edu (David Frohardt-Lane)
Subject: Re: A couple of things...
Organization: Wayne State University Math Department, Detroit
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 13:01:41 GMT

In article <1992Apr17.052205.5021@leland.Stanford.EDU> burger@leland.Stanford.EDU (Scott Schlossberg) writes:
>Hi all.  There were a couple of things on my mind, so I figured I would share
>them with you all to see what anyone had to say.
>
>1) A friend and me were talking and we were wondering if anyone had ever 
>gotten three outs batting/baserunning in one inning.  This would not include
>grouding into a DP.  My friend insisted that this would be impossible.  I think
>that a team could do it if it scored a bunch of runs.  In a related question,
>what's the most runs ever scored in one inning? (This isn't a trivia question.
>I don't know the answer)

I doubt it.  The team would have to go through the order at least two
times, and I don't know if that has ever been done before.

>2) I read in this group last year (or sometime long ago) that there was a 
>formula by Bill James or STATS or someone that allowed the prediction of a
>teams W/L percentage based on number of runs scored and number of runs given 
>up.  I don't remember the formula, but it involved squaring something and
>some division.  If I remember correctly, this was extremely accurate.  Could
>someone please enlighten me.

Here it is (I think): (runs)(runs)/(runs)(runs)+(Oppruns)(Oppruns)

--
David Frohardt-Lane       dfl@math.wayne.edu
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Go Pistons, Red Wings, Lions, Tigers, U-M Football and U-M Basketball!!
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: m_lehoul@oz.plymouth.edu (Michael L. Le Houllier)
Subject: Re: MATT YOUNG TOSSES NO-HITTER, LOSES 2-1
Reply-To: m_lehoul@oz.plymouth.edu (Michael L. Le Houllier)
Organization: Plymouth State College - Plymouth, N.H.
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 92 14:02:08 GMT

In article <1992Apr13.022436.20357@mv.mv.com> mem@mv.mv.com (Mark E. Mallett) writes:
>In article <1992Apr13.001022.29645@casbah.acns.nwu.edu> todd@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Todd Pedlar) writes:
>>Nope.  You can lose and still get credit for the no no if you pitch the 9 
>>innings - Hawkins' game was in Chicago, I think, so he only threw 8...
>
>I understand "no no" to mean "no hits, no runs."  Is there a dialect
>of baseball-speak in which this is not so?

I always thought "no no" meant a perfect game, no hits, walks or errors.
>
>-mm-
>
>-- 
>Mark E. Mallett  MV Communications, Inc./ PO Box 4963/ Manchester NH/ 03108
>Bus. Phone: 603 429 2223    Home: 603 424 8129     BIX: mmallett
>Internet: mem@mv.MV.COM  ( uucp: ...{decvax|harvard}!mv!mem )
>Looking for news and mail in southern NH / northern MA?  Try MV!


-- 
 Michael Le Houllier           *  John 3:16  * Nov 12, 1991 - Dili      
 (m_lehoul@oz.plymouth.edu.us) *  Remember: June 4, 1989 - Beijing
 Go BLUE JAYS  8-1    Mop up the Yanks, bring on the Slop Sox.
 CANADIENS:  First Round  vs. Hartford Whalers... give us a real team!
From: dgh2@quads.uchicago.edu (Doug G. Huffer)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: 3000 hits
Date: 8 Apr 92 22:30:10 GMT
Reply-To: dgh2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

In article <8dsFLjm00iUx48NS0a@andrew.cmu.edu> dw1o+@andrew.cmu.edu (David Henry Willis) writes:
>On ESPN baseball tonight (4/6) they stated that never before had 2
>men achieved the 3000 hit mark in the same season.  Yount and
>Brett may do it this year.  But am I wrong or didn't Yaz and Brock
>get there in 1979??
>
>Regards,
>Dave Willis

Actually, the May issue of Baseball Digest (just arrived today), goes
over this same thing.  Here is their list of players who have joined
the 3000 hit club in the same year:

1914
Honus Wagner, Pirates, June 19 
Nap Lajoie, Indians, August 27 

1925
Tris Speaker, Indians, May 17
Eddie Collins, White Sox, June 3 

1970
Hank Aaron, Braves, May 17 
Willie Mays, Giants, July 18 

1979
Lou Brock, Cardinals, August 13  
Carl Yastrzemski, Red Sox, September 12 


*************************************************************************
* Doug G. Huffer                   * 1992 World Series:			* 
* e-mail: dgh2@quads.uchicago.edu  * Royals over Cubs in 6		* 
* The University of Chicago -      * Hey! and like you predicted the    *
*    No, we're not a state school! * Braves and Twins in 1991!!         *
*************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: aaron@juliet.caltech.edu (Packman, Aaron I.)
Subject: Re: Subjective trivia question
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.40    
Organization: California Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 08:49:00 GMT

In article <204624@unix.cis.pitt.edu>, dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu (David M Tate) writes...
>Here's a cute alternative to arguing about Frank vs. Cecil or the value of
>errors in evaluating defensive value.
> 
>Who would be your pick as the best offensive player to never lead the league
>in any major offensive category?  (Major off. cats. are BA, OBP, SLG, H, R,
>RBI, 2B, 3B, HR, BB, SB).  I have somebody in mind, but I'll wait to see who
>else gets nominated.
> 
This is a stab in the dark, but how about recent hall of fame inductee
Red Schoendeinst?  Did he ever lead in 2b or R?  I'm almost certain that
he never led in any of the other categories (though he came close!).

aaron packman
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball