HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kevin
Subject: Re: USENET Salary Survey
Originator: kevin@dubhe
Reply-To: kevin
Organization: none
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 16:56:52 GMT


In article <BxJ0qL.5Ls@dale.cts.com>, npm@dale.cts.com (Nancy Milligan) writes:
>
> Has anyone ever toyed with the idea of maintaining a salary survey on 
> usenet?  I was thinking that we could post a message here every month
> asking for participants.  Folks could mail their salary and job title
> to the person who maintains this proposed survey and a summary is posted
> each month.
> 

Could one of you job-agency/recruiters out there do this ?

Kev.
-- 
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: olson@dstl86.gsfc.nasa.gov (Paul Olson)
Subject: Re: How do you get a Federal job?
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Mission Operations and Data Systems
Date: 10 Nov 1992 09:36 EST  

In article <1992Nov9.125815.1042@altair.selu.edu>, tmis1692@altair.selu.edu writes...
>I am interested in learning about computer programming/management positions
>within the Federal Government.  Does the government post listings of job
>openings related to computer programming and computer systems management?  What
>is the procedure to follow when applying for a government job?
> 
>Thanks for any info, advice, tips, traps etc.
> 
>Kevin Calmes - TMIS1692@selu.edu

You can obtain the information you want by contacting the Office of Personnel
Management.  If you have a federal office of any type in your area, they should
have a personnel department.  You can also look there.  The federal employment
application form is the SF-171.

I hate to tell you this, Kevin, but most of the government has had a hiring
freeze.  In addition, federal jobs will be on the wane in the next four years. 
If Clinton gets his act together to prevent this country from collapsing
financially, he will be cutting back on federal jobs and the benefits they
receive.  If he doesn't, the jobs will be cut when the president after Clinton
takes office in '96.  It's not a good time to work for the government.

       __  Paul J. Olson - VAX Systems Manager & Resident Amiga Addict 
  C=  ///  Voice -     301/286-4246, 301725-5501                       
 __  ///   DECnet-    DSTL86::OLSON                                    
 \\\///    Internet - olson@dstl86.gsfc.nasa.gov                       
  \XX/     Disclaimer: Statements in my messages are wholely my own.   
  AMIGA    "[the universe originated] as a quantum fluctuation         
            of absolutely nothing." - Guth & Steinhardt
From: jbm@hal.com (Brad Might)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: they really want SALARY HISTORY
Date: 12 Nov 92 18:00:38 GMT
	<BxC29y.FD5.2@cs.cmu.edu> <2249@indep1.UUCP>
Organization: HaL Computer Systems
NNTP-Posting-Host: halserv1.hal.com
In-reply-to: clifto@indep1.UUCP's message of 11 Nov 92 18:40:42 GMT

>>>>> On 11 Nov 92 18:40:42 GMT, clifto@indep1.UUCP (Cliff Sharp) said:

> (Mark S McWhinney) writes:
>> [comments omitted]
>>clifto@indep1.UUCP (Cliff Sharp):
>>

>    That's why I usually try to work through a headhunter/contract consulting
> firm and let _them_ handle the negotiations.  Besides, they usually know
> better about what the market will bear.  So, usually my remark is that I
> consider it kind of personal and prefer that they handle salary negotiations
> and discussions with my agent.  I usually find that respected.


I have had the opposite occur. The headhunter that I dealt with learned my
salary, tried to convince me that that was quite high for the area I was
moving to, and made me feel like I was getting a great deal with a 5%
increase.

After I started working, I find that I'm actually making about 33% less
than most of the others with the same job.  And of course you can never
make it up. Your increases and considered worth are based upon your salary,
not ability and responsibility and actual worth to the company. Hence
people job-hopping for better salaries, even if just to get decently paid.

By the way, from what I hear this company (and some others) have a
reputation for doing just that sort of thing (lying about what you can
make). I think it is so that they can provide their clients with good
employees  for less. 

On an individual basis, it does make sense for a headhunter to get the
employee as much as possible, but when placing many people, it is better
for the headhunter to do volume than make individual killings.


brad
--
- standard disclaimers apply -
jbm@hal.com (Brad Might)      
HAL Computer Systems - (512)794-2855
8920 Business Park Drive Suite 300 Austin, Tx 78759
From: bsridhar@acsu.buffalo.edu (Sridhar B)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Ph.D EE Looking Job
Date: 6 Nov 92 00:01:45 GMT
Organization: State University of New York at Buffalo
Originator: bsridhar@mordred.eng.buffalo.edu


In article <0096328A.A7822BC0@vms.csd.mu.edu>, 5623vyasr@vms.csd.mu.edu writes:

[ stuff deleted...]

This is not the newsgroup for this. You must be aware of misc.jobs.resumes. Do
this there. I have obverved that you keep posting this every 3 days. Do it in
misc.jobs.resumes if you want, but not here.

Sridhar
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: psn6493@usl.edu (Nagpal Prakash S)
Subject: Job fair in Dallas Cancelled
Organization: University of Southwestern Louisiana
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 02:53:27 GMT


Hello Again,
I had posted earlier requesting information on a Career Fair in 
Dallas. Bad news folks. It has been cancelled. I found that out
from the organizers, Business People, Inc. At least the person who
called me claimed to be from this company and said that the fair had 
been cancelled.
Disappointing.

:<(
	: (
:-(

Oh! if you want to confirm this , BPI has an 800 number, I have left
this number in my office and cannot get into it until Monday. You
can however call 1(800)555-1212 , they will give you the number.

Later.
Prakash.
prakash@usl.edu

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer : Do not blame me for the inaccuracy of this information. Call
	     and check.  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: klee@wsl.dec.com (Ken Lee)
Subject: Re: need info, advice, something to help me please..
Keywords: I know that this is for engin., CS, MIS and all but....
Reply-To: klee@wsl.dec.com
Organization: DEC Western Software Laboratory
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 92 23:18:33 GMT

|> I am wondering
|> if it would be wise to try and post my resume on here for an internship next
|> summer. 

Periodically, someone asks if posting resumes to the net works.   A few
people respond saying that they got jobs that way, but these are always
people with lots of professional experience.  Companies seeking entry
level people usually hire through other means, e.g., direct contact
with professors or college placement offices.

Has any recent college grad ever received a job offer by posting their
resume to the net?  If no one responds positively, I recommend that you
save the net bandwidth for those who do have a chance.

-- 
Ken Lee
DEC Western Software Laboratory, Palo Alto, Calif.
Internet: klee@wsl.dec.com
uucp: uunet!decwrl!klee
Xref: sparky misc.jobs.misc:7643 misc.rural:2483
From: mb@smsc.sony.com (Michael Burg)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc,misc.rural
Subject: Living in a rural area and having a 'high-tech' job (Possible?)
Keywords: rural living,high tech job
Date: 10 Nov 92 17:15:49 GMT
Article-I.D.: smsc.1992Nov10.171549.23644
Organization: Sony Microsystems Corp, San Jose, CA


(This is cross-posted between misc.jobs.misc and misc.rural)

Hello all...


The next job I would like to take is one which would allow me to live in
a rural area of a state (right now I have my sights set on the Pacfic
Northwest - Oregon, Idaho, Washington, and possibly Montana) BUT allow me
to have a high-tech job (i.e. computer programing) with a decent pay.

I would like to here from people who have done (or are doing) this (living
in a rural area and having a high-tech job). And I would like to know...

1) How did you find the job(s)? (headhunter, newspaper??)
   a) Was/Is this for a major company? 
2) Do you commute to a urban area for work?
  a) Does your company allow you to 'telecommute' or work at home?
3) How does your pay compare to a job in a urban area (after adjusting
   each for the cost of living in either area)?

Now a more general question...

Just how many computer companys are there in area mention above (i.e. Pacfic-
Northwest) that are located in rural areas???


Thanks much in advance,


-- Michael


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Burg @ Sony Microsystems, 651 River Oaks Parkway  San Jose CA 95134
E-Mail: mb@weed.smsc.sony.com or ..!{uunet,mips}!sonyusa!mb
From: johnson@sleipnir.mnesouth.corp.mot.com ("Johnson")
Subject: Re: they really want SALARY HISTORY
Reply-To: johnson@sleipnir.mnesouth.corp.mot.com
Organization: Motorola Wireless Enterprises, Schaumburg, IL
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 00:17:59 GMT

In article <Bx8CyH.5tn.2@cs.cmu.edu>, msm@mse.cmu.edu (Mark S McWhinney) writes:
=)4) In an earlier reply to a message from Anatole Wilson, I stated "...
=)   so give me a better way of measuring [employee worth as related to
=)   starting salary] that is both objective and meaningful."  Not
=)   surprisingly, I have received no answers.

This may be because there isn't one.  While "human resources" types are
continually trying to get people to fit into neat boxes, reality just
isn't like that.  Let me contend, for the sake of argument, that the
best way to predict a coin toss is to toss a similar coin and assume
the result will be identical.  I challenge you to come up with a better
prediction method that is simple and objective.  If you cannot, I will
assume that this is a good prediction mechanism.

I realize that you mentioned this yourself in paragraph (2) above, but
if you truly realized it you would not be seriously advocating the use
of or demand for this information.
-- 
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| "Johnson"                              |Just because you're paranoid doesn't|
| johnson@sleipnir.mnesouth.corp.mot.com |   mean they're not out to get you. |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Let's face it; if our lawyers knew what went on here, they'd shut us down.  |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Telecommuters, Remote Workers
From: 9138827a@levels.unisa.edu.au
Date: 29 Oct 92 14:08:15 +0930
Organization: University of South Australia

This item has been cross-posted to misc.jobs.contract and misc.rural
====================================================================

I am undertaking postgraduate study at the School of Library and
Information Management, University of South Australia, Adelaide, on
the particular information needs of telecommuters - those who perform
job-related work at a site away from an organisation and communicate
electronically rather than commuting physically.
 
I would be very interested in, and would greatly appreciate a response
from those who are telecommuters, to the following questions. If you
are not a telecommuter but know of others who are it would be
appreciated if you could pass this on to them:
 
 
Q1      Does the organisation to which you telecommute provide any
        library and information services which are accessible to you
        online? (eg catalogs, reference assistance, databases, literature
        searches, document delivery services, organisation information
        such as daily bulletins and administrative gazettes.)
 
        If yes:
 
        (a) What services are provided?
        (b) How useful are these services to you?
 
Q2      (a)     What is the nature of the organisation to which you
                telecommute?
 
        (b)     If you sometimes commute physically to your organisation,
                how frequently do you do this?
 
Q3      What are the particular information needs that you have as a
        telecommuter?
 
Q4      What basic information services do you consider should be
        provided by an organisation for its telecommuters? (see Q5 for
        additional and desirable services)
 
Q5      What additional information services would you perceive as being
        highly desirable for an organisation to provide for its
        telecommuters?
 
Q6      Are there any further comments you wish to make regarding the
        information needs of telecommuters?
 
Q7      Would you like a summary of the results of this survey E-mailed
        to you?
 
Respondents can be assured that individuals and organisations will not
be identified in any report or summary of this survey.
 
Please E-mail your response to my Internet address:
 
9138827a@ntx.city.unisa.edu.au
 
Thank you for your cooperation
 
Bronwen Strong
From: hamon@a.cs.okstate.edu (HAMON SHARON ANN)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: the second interview
Date: 12 Nov 92 22:25:07 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Oklahoma State University, Computer Science, Stillwater

In article <crb2.721598278@Ra.MsState.Edu> crb2@Ra.MsState.Edu (Chad R. Berthelson) writes:
>I just came back from a second interview (plant trip), out of state..
>BUT I know there is 1 position open and 4 people where plant tripped.
>that means that all things equal, I have a 25% chance of that job 

Thought you'd like to know the stats from the original poster. 
The company flew in about 40 people and were hiring 10-15.  So I probably
have a 25% chance at worst, a 50% chance at best (based on my evaluation
on how well the interview went, my resume, etc.).  Needless to say, I'm
not holding my breath.  I'm hopeful, though!
From: clifto@indep1.UUCP (Cliff Sharp)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: code samples?
Date: 7 Nov 92 21:44:11 GMT
Organization: as little as possible

In article <1d8qjdINNpuf@uwm.edu> fino@point.cs.uwm.edu (Alexander Finogenov) writes:
>How can one present one's code samples if this person was not self employed,
>thus does not own even a single line of the code he/she has written because
>all this code is an asset of the companies this person worked for and is
>protected by the law?

   Can you _really_ say you've never written any of this sort of code on
your own time, on your own computer?
   Worst case: when I worked for Zenith Data Systems, I borrowed "my" 
computer on weekends.  What I wrote was MY property; the only problem was
that under Illinois State Law, they had "shop rights" to use anything I
wrote for any purpose they wanted (e.g., to sell it).  Even then, I'm told
that they needed my permission in writing to do so (might or might not be
true).  Regardless, _I_ owned the software and the copyright to it; their
"shop rights" only had to do with the fact that I used their equipment to
implement it.
   It all depends on whether you did it on company time and/or on company
equipment.  Usually, some attorney will offer you a free consultation via
phone to tell you what you're up against.  Take advantage of that.

-- 
+------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|   Cliff Sharp  |      clifto@indep1.chi.il.us   OR  clifto@indep1.uucp       |
|     WA9PDM     |                 Use whichever one works                     |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: krishna@intellection.com (Krishna Rangarajan)
Subject: C++, MS-Windows, Sybase
Organization: Intellection, Inc.
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 04:22:03 GMT

A friend of mine is looking for a person with 2+ years of experience with C++ in MS-Windows environment.  Experience with Sybase is an added advantage.  The position is located in California.  

Please do not send me mail. Instead contact him directly -

Sanjay Balan
(312) 808-1699


Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: purple@emcdec1.ece.uiuc.edu ( )
Subject: anonymous salary CS
Reply-To: purple@emcdec1.ece.uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 21:12:57 GMT

    Location: Phoenix, Az, USA

    Full Time Job:

        Individual Contributor, database porting and value adds
        Tasks include platform specific error resolution and C
        programming

        Experience: 11 years, CS degree

        Salary: 55K

    Part Time:

        Motif/C programming for end-user applications

        Salary: $35 per hour (about 20 hours/week)



--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul R. Hayes

Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: morris@grian.cps.altadena.ca.us (Mike Morris)
Subject: Re: the second interview, continued
Organization: College Park Software, Altadena, CA
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 09:50:53 GMT

proberts@informix.com (Paul Roberts) writes:

>In article <1992Oct29.182630.12474@PA.dec.com> klee@wsl.dec.com writes:
>>|> I just thought of another question:  what attire is considered appropriate?
>>|> Should I wear my interview suit or just something nice?
>>
>>This depends on the company.  Here in Silicon Valley, noone (candidates
>>or interviewers) wears suits to interviews (except at IBM).  On the
>>east coast, everyone does.
>>

>I often see people coming to interviews in suits at this company.
>I am not sure what kind of positions they are interviewing for.
>I'd be very surprised if at least some of them are not programmers.

I've been in the racket since 1965.  I've been on both sides of the 
interviewing desk (in fact I'm position-hunting right now).  At many
companies the first interviewer (you'll typically see between one and 
three on a "job interview") takes notes on a form, and the notes include
how you present yourself.  At one company one of the criteria was (for
men) if your shoes were shined!  The thinking was that if the person
doesn't take pride in his looks he probably won't take pride in his
work.  Please, no flames about this policy - I didn't make it, I'm just
reporting it (by the way, the co folded several years later).  Another
code (for ladies) was if they were in "nice clothes" or a suit - for the
same reason.

Personally, I don't care if I'm interviewing at a start-up where the CEO
wears blue jeans and holey sneakers, or at a Fortune 100 - I wear my
best suit, and wear a everyday shirt for the drive there, then change to
my best shirt and tie just before I get there (this trick keeps the
shirt clean and crisp).  I carry a good looking leather folder with
a couple extra copies of my resume (not xeroxes, laserjet originals),
plus a references sheet (being able to hand a sheet with 3 business and
3 personal references to the interviewer when they ask if you can give
them 3 references shows preparation - and I have another sheet with 2
and wnother with 4).  I also carry a sheet with sufficient info in case
I need to fill out a DOD background check form.  I also check the 
comapny out in the Thomas Directory (any big library reference section),
and the local CofC.  It's also helpful to do a bit of extra 
research - if you have a week before the interview call the company PR 
dept and ask for a annual report (if you think somebody might put two and two
together, have it sent to a friend at a different adress).  I once got
a job even though I was not the most qualified person simply because I
knew enough about the company to ask intelligent questions in the
interview - it showed that I had an interest in the company.

Please pardon teh typos.  It's 2am.
-- 
Mike Morris   WA6ILQ   | This space intentionally left blank.
PO Box 1130            | 
Arcadia, CA. 91077     | All opinions must be my own since nobody pays
818-447-7052 evenings  | me enough to be their mouthpiece...
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: ehall@cmpny.sscnet.ucla.edu (Eric Hall)
Subject: Re: What does I.B.M stand for?
Reply-To: ehall@cmpny.sscnet.ucla.edu (Eric Hall)
Organization: Network Computing Magazine
Date: Sat, 07 Nov 92 22:16:36 GMT

>>I.B.M. = 
>
>>  Itsy Bitsy Machine
>>  I Bring Manuals
>> I've Been Moved
>>  Others?
>
>International Big Mother
>Incredibly Big Mistake
>I build Macintosh (seen on a t-shirt in a Cupertino supermarket)
>I Bought Macintosh (seen at Comdex)
>Its Beyond Me (common response to "Why doesn't it work?" questions...)

My favorite is "Intercourse Before Masturbation". They'd rather screw
you than screw themselves.

Not that I necessarily believe this, mind you.


Eric Hall
Dir, East Coast Labs
Network Computing Magazine
516-562-5288
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: sonic@bearpit.cray.com (Curtis Swanson)
Subject: Re: they really want SALARY HISTORY
Reply-To: sonic@bearpit.cray.com (Curtis Swanson)
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 5 Nov 92 17:47:58 CST

Mark S McWhinney writes:

>5) If people with a NON-TRIVIAL level of experience, say 10 years,
>   have an average salary increase of 5% over the 10 years, they have
>   just kept up with inflation.  If you argue that they could just be
>   victims of their circumstances, then I would have to ask that if
>   they are really better than the 5% rate, why did they not find a
>   better job?  We all hit bumps and unexpected turns in our career
>   paths, but after many years our true worth as employees shows
>   through.  Stated another way, random noise obscures our true value
>   as shown by our salary rates over the short term, but in the longer
>   term the noise is less of a factor and the true value comes out.

What if, as someone else has said, you are not someone who always fights
for the highest salary?  I have always been given an average or above average
(within the compaany) raise but, since I like what I'm doing and make enough
to life nicely, I haven't pushed for maximum raises or advancments.  Should I
be considered a lesser worker for that?  Would you rather have a person who's
always jumping around looking for the biggest wage gain or someone who wants
to be paid well for a job they like?

Just curious, and I don't have a better indicator because I have never 
considered the question.  Thanks for the qualifications of your opinions:
they helped me to understand your position better.

***  Curt Swanson  ***  sonic@romulus.cray.com  ***  IOTTMCO  *********
HOME:n - That mythical place where you can go and relax.......
Life is......   Well, 'fun' is a relative term, isn't it?
I'd rather be in a coma.........
***  Warning: This signature expires on 30-NOV-92!  *******************