HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cjdcosta@eos.ncsu.edu (CHRISTOPHER J DCOSTA)
Subject: Re: A question of conscience
Originator: cjdcosta@zepplin.ece.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: cjdcosta@eos.ncsu.edu (CHRISTOPHER J DCOSTA)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 03:42:18 GMT


Dave.Aronson@f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Dave Aronson) writes-

>cjdcosta@eos.ncsu.edu (CHRISTOPHER J DCOSTA) writes:
>
>CJD> But I do include Mensa membership in the 'personal'
>CJD> section of my resume along with my other interests. I believe it does, to
>a
>CJD> certain extent, say something about me,
>
>Ah, but positive or negative?  And putting it on the resume can be interpreted
>as a statement in itself.

Yeah, and isn't it embarassing :-\ 

But seriously, I've NEVER felt the necessity to tell anyone that I'm a member
etc, and would most DEFINITELY NOT flash my membership card at anyone. Anyone 
who did would rightly be suspect.  I've also repeated often enough that IMHO 
Mensa's not really all that selective. We (or at least I) join for the 
enjoyment and entertainment it affords me. 

At the same time, I've always felt, and still do feel, that people in Mensa 
ARE more intelligent than others (and since there is no consensus on that 
definition, you will grant me the freedom of defining intelligence for myself.)
The same goes for those much-maligned standardised tests.. At least in college,
most people knew who were the sharpest guys around- and although they didn't 
always top the class, ALL these guys sailed through their GREs. I at least was 
reasonably satisfied about how well these tests could predict intelligence. 

Yet for quite some time now, I've been subconciously "getting PC" about IQ test
results, opining stuff like "Well, we're not smarter, just different", etc. 
This has largely been in an attempt to accomodate the dissenting opinions, in 
the interests of consensus and decorum. It was only when someone else on this 
forum expressed the same opinion to me by email, that I realised that many 
others probably felt just as I did. 

Although I don't want to make any sweeping generalisations, I believe that the 
assortment of flames that we've received has put many of us on the defensive. 
And in a nutshell, I believe that we as a group have been quite effective in
discrediting the very tests that we privately consider quite fair. And all 
this in an attempt to come across as nice, humble, accomodating, and 
politically correct. 

Dave's surely wondering by now what this has to do with the resume issure. Well,
although I'll agree that the purpose of the resume is to get you an interview 
and hopefully a job, I think that if a potential employer is anal-retentive enough
to hold my membership against me, I'm not sure if I'd want to work for him/her.
Whether it speaks positively of me or not is debatable.
From: jwp@chem.ucsd.edu (John Pierce)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: AG Hotel sites
Date: 18 Aug 1992 19:42:32 GMT
Organization: Chemistry Dept, UC San Diego
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: chedccf0.ucsd.edu

Mike Steiner writes:
 > 
 > So, what do you all thing about this?  If the 1994 AG were to be at a Hyatt,
 > would that keep you from going?

It would be a (negative) factor to consider, though by itself it would
probably not be decisive.

Personally, for a number of years I've avoided Hyatts whenever possible.
In my experience, other similarly priced hotels (notably Mariotts) offer
considerably better accomodations.

-- John Pierce, Chemistry, UC San Diego
   jpierce@ucsd.edu
From: Craig.Wagner@p2.f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Craig Wagner)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Prejudice against intelligence
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 09:49:59 -0500

  TP> For what it's worth, being athletically better doesn't guarantee
  TP> acceptance either.  I was on the gymnastics team in high school.  I
  TP> even earned a letter.  I still couldn't get a date, had few friends,
  TP> didn't go to the proms, etc. (I've since found that being in
  TP> reasonably good physical condition _does_ help.  Healthy people are
  TP> generally more attractive). Also, as someone else pointed out, bars
  TP> are a poor place to seek our intellectual equals unless there's a
  TP> Mensa Happy Hour in progress.  In that case, of course, everyone will
  TP> be too busy pigging out on the free lunch to talk much. (I no longer
  TP> go to happy hours.  I find such behavior embarrassing).

Egad.  What must you think of the typical RG hospitality suite pigfests?
From: jlacey@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (james.w.lacey)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Demise of honor programs in public high schools
Date: 18 Aug 92 21:37:34 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Aug17.150702.10728@alliant.com> werme@alliant.com (Ric Werme) writes:
>The latest public school bandwagon seems to be "heterogeneous grouping",
>where kids of all abilities are mixed into a class.  The claim is that
>with ability grouping, the slower students are put into the slow
>group and never have a chance to reach their potential. ....

This movement (to eliminate ability grouping) appears to be spreading 
all over the country.  In my town, the high school principle explained
that the smart kids can help the slower learners, so it is a win/win
situation.  I dont buy it.  I remember in high school that there
was a college track and general track, with higher college track
levels (we didnt use the term honors) in math and science.

To use a specific example, the honors math class was heavy into
calculus.  The kids in this class had sufficient preparation
to apply for and get accepted into schools like MIT.  
Without this backround, forget it.

Now if/when the high school eliminates ability grouping, how
will the bright kids get the calculus backround to get into MIT?
They may feel real cozy because they have been helping out
their slower pals in the homogeneous math class, but cozy
isnt an admission criteria to MIT.

I think the problem is that Americans have assumed that everyone
should get an academic education.  In Germany, they have a
vocational school to apprentice program, where non-academic students
can study a trade and are given apprentice positions in industry.
This is not like the vocational schools in the US, where there
is usually little or no integration between school and industry.

-- 
     Jim Lacey  --  my own opinions    
     email:  att!cbnewsl!jlacey  or  jlacey@cbnewsl.cb.att.com
     D'ou venons-nous? Que sommes-nous? Ou allons-nous?
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Daylenth
Date: 12 Aug 92 20:58:03 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.120838.10441@walter.cray.com>, glover@midnight.cray.com (Roger Glover) writes:

> Pendantics of the world, unite!  You have nothing to miss but the point!
> 
> Err, ... what was the point anyway?

Many people would tell you that this newsroup in entirely pointless.
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: seb@draper.com (Steve Bacher)
Subject: Re: Mensa math question
Organization: Draper Laboratory
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 12:07:00 GMT

The following REXX program:

do x = 0 to 9
 do y = 0 to 9
  do z = 0 to 9
   if try(x,y,z) then say x || y || z "is a solution."
  end
 end
end
 
return
 
try: parse arg x,y,z
 
 return (x + y) * (y + z) * (x + z) = 3 * (100*x + 10*y + z)
 


produces the following output:

 000 is a solution.
 676 is a solution.

On the IBM System/390 mainframe this took about half a second of CPU time.

Who needs geniuses?    :-)


 - seb
From: mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: SAT percentiles
Date: 21 Aug 92 18:41:15 GMT

In article <0D7A19B2C0400543@ccfvx3.draper.com>, skh4161@mvs.draper.com (Kjeld Hvatum) writes:
> 
> 
>  From: Mike Steiner <mike_steiner@qm.claris.com>
>  Message-ID: <15040@claris.com>
> 
> >In article <B5745D0980003377@ccfvx3.draper.com>, skh4161@mvs.draper.com (Kjeld
> > Hvatum) writes:
> >>                         SAT Population   General Population (estimate)
> >>                         --------------   -----------------------------
> >>...
> >>          1450   ?           99.6                99.9
> >>          1500   ?           99.9                99.97
> >>...
> >
> >Are you sure?  Last that I heard, the triple nine society requires 1504
> >on the SAT for admission.
> 
> The TNS SAT requirement was recently changed from 1550 to 1470.
> ISPE is the one with the 1504 cutoff.  TNS may have had that
> cutoff when they split off from ISPE, but I'm not sure.

Well, my 1443 is still not quite enough--not that I'd join, anyway.  I'm
in Mensa primarily for the social aspects; that's why I'm not renewing my
Intertel membership.
From: OCONNELLWR@VTCC1.CC.VT.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: re:maladjusted genius-dorks
Date: 14 Aug 1992 00:16:15 -0500
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu
X-Unparseable-Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 1:15:56 -0400 (EDT)

	Not to put too fine a point on it, but I think the argument "all
geniusses (sp?) who are not well-liked would be not well-liked even if they
were average" is a bit of a cop-out.  Certain obvious aspects of intelligence
(top score on the test, singled out as a "sterling example" by the teacher) 
would contribute to general dislike, maladjustment, etc... given the right high
school and appropriate inmates.
	Moreover, I went to the Montgomery County, MD Sci/Math/CS magnet schoo
I got along reasonably well with many of the other technojocks, but have found
consistent difficulty fitting into the social scene of people with more "averag" intelligence.
<go ahead- rebuttal on the basis that magnet schools are inherently evil; I had
an insufficiently diverse social environment; I was dork all along but the
smart kids tried to be nice to me; etc...>.
At any rate, I hardly think we can generalize that _all_ unliked geniusses have
some trait that would make life difficult for those of average intelligence.

{humor on}
	But perhaps you're right, Mr. Fuller.  My life would be miserable even
if I were just average, or even dumber than a salad bowl.  Guess my plan of
a better social scene through alcohold-induced-brain-damage will fail.  Nothing
left for me to do but blow my brains out.
	Goodbye, cruel R.O.M. .....
<CARRIER LOST>
From: cjdcosta@eos.ncsu.edu (CHRISTOPHER J DCOSTA)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Prejudice against intelligence
Date: 21 Aug 92 02:00:56 GMT
Reply-To: cjdcosta@eos.ncsu.edu (CHRISTOPHER J DCOSTA)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Originator: cjdcosta@zepplin.ece.ncsu.edu


fuller@athena.cs.uga.edu (James P. H. Fuller) writes..
>
>tolman%asylum.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Kenneth Tolman) writes:
>> You walk into a bar, sit down next to an attractive person, and then
>>smile.  They look up at you, and say, "Hey, aren't you on the University
>>(soccer, football, swimming, etc ) team?"
>>  You look at them for a second, and they seem really interested.  "yeah,"
>>>  Something went wrong, because the attractive person has suddenly turned
>>cold.
>>
>>  So why is it acceptable to be athletically better than everyone else,
>>but not to be more intelligent?  Are people afraid of intelligence?  Is
>>there some ancient cultural mystique which surrounds the concept of
>>intelligence?  What is the deal?
>
>     Well, a bar isn't my first choice of places to locate bright new friends.
>I think the turn-off in your scenario is perfectly easy to understand: what
>went through the suddenly-cold person's mind was "Oh God, what to talk about?"
>and she (he) drew a blank ("Met any good Fibonacci numbers lately?")

Bullseye, James, and that's exactly the point Ken was making. The MOTOS was
apparently attracted to our math whiz here, which must mean that he WAS
reasonably good looking, and could well have ALSO been on the football/swimming
team. Or at least capable of liking the game and of contributing to related
conversation. So why was the assumption made that math alone was his life? And
remember the references you'd posted some time ago about the misrepresentation
of the intelligent by the typical nerd stereotype. 
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath)
Subject: Re: Prejudice against intelligence
Organization: The Cat Factory
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 17:37:32 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.051121.2209@hellgate.utah.edu> tolman%asylum.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Kenneth Tolman) writes:
} You walk into a bar, sit down next to an attractive person, and then
}smile.  They look up at you, and say, "Hey, aren't you on the University
}(soccer, football, swimming, etc ) team?"
}  You look at them for a second, and they seem really interested.  "yeah,"
}you reply, "I am on the math team"
}  Something went wrong, because the attractive person has suddenly turned
}cold.
}
}  So why is it acceptable to be athletically better than everyone else,
}but not to be more intelligent?  ...

For what it's worth, being athletically better doesn't guarantee
acceptance either.  I was on the gymnastics team in high school.  I even
earned a letter.  I still couldn't get a date, had few friends, didn't go
to the proms, etc. (I've since found that being in reasonably good
physical condition _does_ help.  Healthy people are generally more
attractive).

Also, as someone else pointed out, bars are a poor place to seek our
intellectual equals unless there's a Mensa Happy Hour in progress.  In
that case, of course, everyone will be too busy pigging out on the free
lunch to talk much. (I no longer go to happy hours.  I find such behavior
embarrassing).

The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@polymath.tti.com)
Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp                   Turn the rascals out!
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483     No incumbents in '92!
Santa Monica, CA  90405
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: sya@admin.keh.utulsa.edu (Syed Shibli)
Subject: Re: Dorky Yellow Map Pin (was Re: Being ashamed of being in Mensa)
Organization: Yale CS Mail/News Gateway
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 17:56:57 GMT


  Perhaps the discussion should center around why the Dorky Yellow Map 
  Pin is yellow. I've seen red pins, and blue pins, and black pins, but
  I cannot figure out why it has to be yellow. Why can't it be orange,
  just like life jackets, sea buoys, and highway construction cones? 
  That way, if a Mensan were to be lost in a heavy fog, or a storm, that 
  little Dorky Orange Map Pin might even save the life of the wearer. 
  Or why can't it be red, for that matter? Red means a lot of different
  things: halt, bad, distress, blood, war, roses, et cetera. And so do
  Mensans: its members are a diversified group of people who share different
  views on a host of different subjects. Just as you can detect distress in 
  one member, you can also be repulsed by the bad breath of another. Red
  is a versatile color, and so are Mensans. How about blue? Or black? I
  can wear my Dorky Blue Map Pin at a Mensa lunch and simultaneously let
  all the others know that I'm in a blue mood, or that I like Robert
  Johnson's blues. Or how about green? Green means so many good things to
  a lot of people. Greenpeace. Greenacres. Conservation of the world's
  green forests. Green means Go! at a traffic stop, so you wouldn't have 
  to wait anymore. Your Boss gives you the green light to implement your
  new marketing strategy. Most vegetables are green, and you know how
  good vegetables are for you. Mensans can all wear their Dorky Green
  Map Pins with pride. But why then does it have to be yellow?

--
Syed Shibli                          | +1 918 631 3257 (work)
505 South Gary, #14, Tulsa, OK 74104 | sya%admin@tusun2.mcs.utulsa.edu
From: schin@acs.bu.edu (neil schier)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Famous Mensans besides Isaac Asimov and Mel Lazarus, Chekov (ST)
Date: 20 Aug 92 13:09:13 GMT
Organization: Boston University, Boston, MA, USA
Originator: schin@acs.bu.edu

Besides the three guys (CHekhov from Star Trek that is Mel Lazarus draws
the Momma cartoon) who else, who is famous, is in Mensa?

Incidentally, a trivia question in one of the bulletins asked what famous
Mensan wore his dorky yellow pin while guest starring in Mission Impossible?

who was it?

Regards
NEil
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: werme@alliant.com (Ric Werme)
Subject: Re: Becoming one of the few...
Organization: Alliant Computer Systems Corp.
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 19:47:49 GMT

In article <2006@usna.NAVY.MIL> potter@attila.usna.navy.mil (Mr. Jeff Potter (CADIG  STAFF)) writes:
>   Could some one please e-mail me or post with information regarding how
>one goes about becoming a member of MENSA? I have taken several independent
>IQ tests which have placed me at about 135 to 145.

Aha! New dimensions in military intelligence!

Yes, that should qualify, I'm sure someone else has already sent you
the information you asked for.  I just couldn't let that wisecrack
go uncracked.  (And apologies, we usually wait for potential members
to join and become used to the group before we start picking on
them....)
-- 
| A pride of lions               | Eric J Werme                 |
| A gaggle of geese              | 77 Tater St                  |
| An odd lot of programmers      | Mont Vernon NH  03057        |
| A Constitution of Libertarians | Phone: 603-673-3993          |
From: jwp@chem.ucsd.edu (John Pierce)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Newsletter (and other) costs
Date: 12 Aug 1992 20:41:44 GMT
Organization: Chemistry Dept, UC San Diego
NNTP-Posting-Host: chedccf0.ucsd.edu

The San Diego MENSAN currently runs 28 8.5x11 pages (including the cover which
is on the same stock as the inside pages).  Collating and stapling is done by
volunteers by hand, though that's primarily for social purposes:  the "event"
of putting together regularly gets 10-20 attendees, and seems to particularly
attract new(er) members who are actually willing to work for the group.  The
editors tell me that having it done by the printer would not increase costs
significantly.  San Diego has an average of monthly membership of 1000-1100
people, so around 1200 copies are mailed each month.  The MENSAN's budget for
7/92-6/93 is just over $10K, which is realistic given the current size and the
last several years' costs.  Basically, we spend a little over $10/member/year
to produce and mail the MENSAN.

The newsletter budget does not allow for any capital expenditures, e.g.,
computer and laser printer repair or replacement.  That's a significant, but
deliberate, omission.  The editors use their own equipment and the existing
group-owned PC is used only for limited primary input.  Realistically, it is
highly unlikely we will ever again have editors who do not have their own
equipment; and if we did, group-owned equipment would very likely be useless
anyway.  From the group's point of view, e.g., paying for repair of privately
owned equipment is cheaper than buying and maintaining group-owned equipment.
We do own and maintain software sufficient to the job, though I can't imagine
someone attempting to take on the editorship of a large group newsletter these
days without already having decent hardware and software that they like.

Budgeted 92-93 expenses outside of the newsletter are about $4.4K, and we're
projecting a net deficit of about $1.2K.  In reality, both expenses and income
are likely to be a somewhat lower than projected, and the deficit should also
be slightly lower.  We're allowing the deficit spending since there was about
a $4K surplus in the bank as of 6/30/92.  The board decided it was time to
feed some of that back to the membership, primarily by producing a newsletter
that's somewhat larger than we could otherwise afford.

-- John W Pierce, LocSec, San Diego Mensa
   jpierce@ucsd.edu
From: blayda@acsu.buffalo.edu (Danger)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Mensa math question
Date: 14 Aug 92 20:21:37 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: UB

In article <311959E120203286@ccfvx3.draper.com> seb@draper.com (Steve Bacher) writes:
>The following REXX program:
>
>do x = 0 to 9
> do y = 0 to 9
>  do z = 0 to 9
>   if try(x,y,z) then say x || y || z "is a solution."
>  end
> end
>end
> 
>return
> 
>try: parse arg x,y,z
> 
> return (x + y) * (y + z) * (x + z) = 3 * (100*x + 10*y + z)
>
>produces the following output:
>
> 000 is a solution.
> 676 is a solution.

Sacrelige! Blaspheme!

>
>Who needs geniuses?    :-)

*sigh*


-- 
************************************************************************
Thaddeus Krag Blayda blayda@acsu.buffalo.edu, v063j3h4@ubvms.buffalo.edu
# Caution : DANGER #  This Country is at critical mass.
Vote Libertarian in '92!  Vote Marrou/Lord!  Vote to have your freedom back.
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: SSR48327@VAX1.UTULSA.EDU (Syed Shibli)
Subject: Why these computer solutions?
X-Unparseable-Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 17: 56:38 -0500 (CDT)
Organization: Yale CS Mail/News Gateway
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 22:56:49 GMT


From the keyboard of Steve Bacher, who writes:

>The reason I'm posting these computer solutions to puzzlers is to emphasize
>that times have changed.  The days when people could amuse each other with
>simple arithmetical "brain teasers" are slipping away, 
>[stuff deleted]
>Brain teasers will have to be more sophisticated - either closer to being
>NP-complete, or involving a much larger number of potential solutions,
>[stuff deleted]

  Not necessarily. A lot of the appeal of solving brain teasers is that you
  get a chance to use your intellectual dexterity (and I'm not referring
  to writing a computer program) to solve the problem. I think of this as
  similar to solving a PDE. You can solve a problem numerically, but
  nothing beats the satisfaction of coming up with a solution analytically. 
 
-- 
Syed Shibli                          | +1 918 631 3257 (work)
505 South Gary, #14, Tulsa, OK 74104 | sya%admin@tusun2.mcs.utulsa.edu
From: mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Mensa math question
Date: 20 Aug 92 17:19:49 GMT

In article <714272423.F00005@blkcat.UUCP>, Dave.Aronson@f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Dave Aronson) writes:

> Of course [added later: as Mike Steiner just saw thru his telescope pointed at
> my office] there's always the degenerate solution of 000, perfect for us
> degenerates....

'Tain't my 'scope, Dave; it's Bill Johnson's (in case you forgot).  BTW, I
heard from him last week.  He and his wife of two years (or has it been only one
year?) have split up, and will be divorced in a few weeks.

Anyhow, it's the only scope I know of that can look into office windows from
across the continent.
From: Dave.Aronson@f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Dave Aronson)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: A question of conscience
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 12:43:38 -0500

mike_steiner@qm.claris.com writes:

MS> he said "are you a fucking genius

Given Mensa's reputation, you proved both parts.  ;->