HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andrew Michael Woodward)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Macho quiz (for Laura)
Date: 21 Nov 92 09:09:26 GMT
Organization: University of Wales, Aberystwyth


>Ever try a 5.12-13 without power?

I used to climb some very hard stuff(6c Brit) with a tiny and very 
fluffy girl. She used to float effrotlessly up stuff I'd just grovelled up
This was very annoying. She was not strong, she just moved with the 
precise efficiency of a computer controlled ballet dancer. Power is VERY 
useful at these grades, but even here it seems its not essential if you move 
well enough.

Sadly, I need the power.

Cheers

Andy
From: andrew@alice.att.com (Andrew Hume)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: learning to lead
Summary: another tack
Date: 19 Nov 92 23:27:43 GMT
Article-I.D.: alice.24256
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories, Murray Hill NJ



	another reason to lead is to go climbing at all!
i climbed several times in australia before coming to Bell Labs
and wanted to do some climbing. I didn't know any climbers so
I taught a friend (via toproping at the local practice cliffs)
and then we went to the Gunks and I taught myself how to lead
(I had never lead in Australia).

	i was certainly scared shitless (even it was only a 5.3)
but it was the only way I was going to get climbing done (my partner
wasn't keen on leading). I've since mastered the tension of leading
which is enjoyable in itself with one exception. The labs periodically
give out free tetanus shots. I scheduled myself for one (over 7 years
since the last one) and at the last moment they changed the day to
the day before i was climbing at the gunks. no problem, i said,
just do it in the left shoulder. next day, about 2/3 of teh way up,
i started feeling really shitty. to make things worse, i got off
route and had to down-climb a bunch. i finished the climb with about
103 fever. I asked later about the shot and was told they included
a diptheria dose for free with the tetanus shot. I was a tad testy
about informed consent; leading with a raging fever is not enjoyable.

			andrew
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: bruceg@Cadence.COM (Bruce Gustifson)
Subject: Re: Californiphobia (use to be: Trip Report: A Day in Eldorado
Organization: Cadence Design Systems, Inc.
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 16:03:46 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.001025.20775@walter.bellcore.com> flag@banco.bellcore.com (Steve Waddell) writes:
>In article <106480311@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM>, byrnes@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (John Byrnes) writes:
>|> > 
>|> > >I think there is an attitude problem towards anybody who is not from
>|> > >Colorado.  Xenophobia.
>|> > 
  I've been to Colorado and I found the folks in Denver to exceptionally easy
to get along with for folks in a major city, EVEN after they found out I was
from Ca. Never got out on the crags, though, as I wasn't yet a climber. Just
my experience. Mort, what do you think?
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: jahn@guinness.Idbsu.EDU (Greg Jahn)
Subject: Re: USFS Backcountry Fees
Reply-To: jahn@guinness.idbsu.edu
Organization: BSU - Data Center
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 15:55:22 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.000127.8587@leland.Stanford.EDU>,
 garth@leland.Stanford.EDU (Douglas Garth Jensen) writes:
|>In article <1ebq8hINNm63@morrow.stanford.edu>
|>AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney) writes:
|>>I have just seen a news report on a proposal to charge user fees for
|>>backpacking and hiking use of the National Forests.  My first
|>>response was negative.  However, to say that the money collected
|>>would be used to replace logging revenues.  The implication was that
|>>for every $1 collected from backpackers there would be $1 less in
|>>timber sales.  If this is true I would be inclined to change my
|>>view.
|>
|>If the National Forest Service was really so interested in reducing
|>logging
|>and maintaining revenue, it should simply increase the cost of trees
|>to the
|>timber companies to a price which more reasonably represents their
|>true value.
|>As I understand it, the NFS now sells trees on NFS land to the timber
|>|>companies for something like 1 dollar per tree.  As if that isn't
|>already
|>enough of an insult, the cost to U.S. taxpayers of making those trees
|>|>available to the timber companies (by building roads and taking care
|>of
|>paper work) is about $1.40 per tree.  In other words, we actually PAY
|>the
|>timber companies to take the trees.  I'm skeptical that the NFS would
|>use
|>fees from backpackers in a productive way.

If I follow this correctly, and, based on my understanding of the
issue, wouldn't it be reasonable to propose to the forest service
that they stop ALL welfare logging, and, with the money that they
SAVE because of not paying the loggers to cut trees, ... shouldn't
they PAY US a $1 for every time we go hiking?  If they did this,
maybe I could more easily understand the life of a timber industry
executive.

--
Greg Jahn Boise State Univ.|>>>>>>>Official Disclaimer <<<<<<<<<<<<
/ jahn@guinness.idbsu.edu /|" Only the names here are fictitious.
/ dosjahn@idbsu.bitnet    /|  The story, unfortunately, is
/ (208)385-3891.thephone  /|  absolutely true. " - Joseph Brodesky

Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: ummorea0@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Gene Moreau)
Subject: building an Ice Climbing tower.
Originator: ummorea0@ccu.umanitoba.ca
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 19:57:00 GMT

Hi!  Since that we are stuck out here in the prairies our local section of
the Alpine Club of Canada is thinking about putting up an ice tower this
winter.  The only ideas we have had is some sort of telephone pole
construction with chicken wire for the ice to stick to.  What I am
wondering is has any one out there tried(successfully or otherwise) to
build one?  If so please send me any construction ideas that you have. 

Thnx in advance


-- 
Gene Moreau                 | "Morning comes far to early when it's cold
University of Mantitoba     |  outside and there is a maniac on the loose"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada  |    - unknown
ummorea0@cuu.umanitoba.ca
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: eru@watson.ibm.com (Erich Ruetsche)
Subject: Re: learning to lead
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 07:48:09 GMT
Distribution: usa
Reply-To: eru@titlis.zurich.ibm.com (Erich Ruetsche)
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM Zurich research

> Eugene Miya wrote:
>It's one thing to follow a line of bolts and/or patches of white.
>It's another thing to follow a crack and place pro.

I agree, but its still another thing to climb a vertical wall in limbstone with a bolt
every ten meters ( go to Wendenstoecke, Kirchlispitze (Switzerland) or Marmolata (Dolomites))

BUT this is not an argument for learning to lead ! Today leading should be learned
in a fault tolerant environement. I knew also to many people which hadn't this
possibility and had to learn in the OLD style - pin, placed pro, ...Dead
Placing Pro and finding a route is the 2nd step in learning to lead. You learn this
quite a bit faster if you feel still comfortable standing 2 m ontop of the
last pro. 
I really don't think that it is necessary that todays beginners have to make the
same very long way to leading I (we ?) made 10-15 years ago :  climbing second,
climbing 1st in easy grades, climbing 1 in hard grades and bad pro,
 first ascent in hard grades and finally nice climbing with good bolts (see above).

I know that it can be problem to learn the 2nd step, but that is not necessary for 
many people. They stay in their overbolted area and are happy. People who learn it
this way  learn it fast and may become excellent climber and alpinists.
People like Profit, F.Legrand, Susi Good, Patissier, C Destivelle learned it this 
way with pretty good success  :-)

Erich Ruetsche, eru@zurich.ibm.com
climbing and living in rainy Switzerland
(!!! new climbing gym opening in Sargans begin next year. Design: Susi + Edi Good !!!)
From: Paul.Williams@brunel.ac.uk (Paul M Williams)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Macho quiz (for Laura)
Date: 18 Nov 92 16:32:26 GMT
Organization: Brunel University, Uxbridge, UK
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

TP Monks (tpm@ecs) wrote:

: Here's an American example:
: 	Subject: 5.10 #32
: And a British one:
: 	Subject: E3 #7
: 
: Hey, this could be interesting!  Perhaps all you tanned Californian muscled
: rock athletes in Lycra out there have a low grade/pull-up ratio from 
: climbing all those steep never-ending cracks, whereas us English have a
: high one from climbing those stubby little stanage routes with sloping
: rounded breaks whilst wearing bobble hats!

It really depends on how you define how many pull ups. For instance (here comes the macho ego bit) on a pull up pyramid (1 to 10 and back down to 1 again with 30 second rest between each go) I can go 100 but in a single attempt probably about 30 if fresh.

Oh yeah, I climb about E4/E5 (ish)

Well my addition to the macho survey.

Cheers

Paul
From: drisinge@oracle.uucp (David Risinger)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Pittsburgh, PA  - Climbing Competition
Date: 20 Nov 92 22:47:57 GMT
Organization: Oracle Corporation, Redwood Shores, CA  94065
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

***********  NOTICE  *******************************************

Mountain Dreams International, Inc.  Rock Climbing Competition

December 6, 1992 - Registration & Warm-up  8am
                 - Competition Begins     10am

Indoor climbing wall.

Divisions:  Men & Women - Beginner, Intermediate, Advanced
            Kids & Seniors

Prizes Awarded to Top 3 in each Division.
Consolation prizes to everyone who enters.

FREE Entry - Spectators Encouraged!

Call to register or for more information!

Mountain Dreams International, Inc.
1121 Bower Hill Road
Pittsburgh, PA 15243
412-276-8660

**************  ALSO **************************

December 5, 1992

Climbing Shoe Demo!!

Test Drive the 1993 rock shoes on the indoor climbing wall!

Call for details - 412-276-8660
From: tpm@ecs (TP Monks)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Macho quiz (for Laura)
Date: 20 Nov 92 12:27:14 GMT


Thanks to all the people who mailed their climbing grade and # pullups.

All # pullups were pretty high - either those who are less dedicated
to the bar were afraid of subsequent blackmail, or you're all a bunch of
muscle-bound hunks.  That is apart from the one respondant who climbs
F6c and can't do a single pullup.  I can only assume that there are
some pretty smooth slabs out there!

A surprising but definite trend has emerged:  The more pullups you can 
do the harder you will be able to climb!
There weren't really enough responses to plot, or analyse ( a few 
people were keen to see regression analysis, variance, SD, etc etc :-),
so that's about it, unless some more people mail...

If you feel inclined, please mail me your vital climbing statistics, heck,
its only for fun!

Tim



--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Monks                                Vision, Speech and Signal Processing
tpm@ecs.soton.ac.uk                                    Southampton University
Tel: +44 (703) 592774                                   Fax: +44 (703) 592895
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: jacobson5821@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Advice on Boreal Ballets
Date: 16 Nov 92 12:11:16 -0600
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

I am looking to buy some Boreal Ballet shoes.  Does anyone have some any advice
or have liked theirs or not liked theirs?  If you are wanting to sell a pair
that are in very good condition (size 7 1/2) please email me!

                                Thanks in advance,
                                                Paul Jacobson

P.S.  I will be climbing cracks and faces on limestone.

Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna)
Subject: Re: training, pullups
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 00:58:09 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department

In article <1992Nov21.000629.27184@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> sgs8r@kelvin.seas.Virginia.EDU (Steve Strickland, sgs8r@virginia.edu) writes:
>Meant to post this a while back but....
>
>*And* many studies
>have shown that the most effective way to increase  this "1 repetition maximum"
>(1 RM) is to do sets to exhaustion of 3-6 repetitions. 

Is this also true of various other muscle groups, legs for instance, or
only pullups?

-- 

-Wayne Trzyna
 trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Newsgroups: rec.climbing


Me too!  I'll be around Detroit, Grand Rapids and Kalamazoo over Chrismas.

John

Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: storm@geog.utah.edu (John Storm)
Subject: Re: learning to lead
Organization: DIGIT Lab
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 18:46:46 GMT

In article <1992Nov19.111731.22565@aber.ac.uk>, azw@aber.ac.uk (Andrew Michael Woodward) writes:
|> >bolts being placed where they are not neccessary if the leader would just
|> >hang around to place the gear.
|> 
|> 
|> I started climbing in the machine nuts on string era. Bolts are a wonderful
|> invention, you cna get on with the climbing instead of wasting all your
|> time and enthusiasm fiddling silly lumps of metal into chossy cvracks
|> that are the wrong shape anyway. Stick bolts beside all cracks. Outlaw
|> natural gear. I LOVE bolts.
|> 

I hate all these #$%@ing trails, why don't we just pave them all.
That way we can ride our skateboards and get on with the climbing instead
of "wasting all our time and enthusiasm fiddling with all this walking shit"

Matter of fact, I hate all this crack climbing anyway, why don't we just
fill them all in, that way we can all do face :-}

Get a life ...  why don't you just outlaw the bolts too!, that way
you wont have to waste your time fiddling around with ropes, crabs,
etc...  

After all you're only in it for the CLIMBING experience -> do us a favor
and take up free soloing :-)

Storm
storm@geog.utah.edu
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: morrison@cup.hp.com (Bobbie_Morrison)
Subject: Re: Cleaning the smell out of rock shoes?
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 17:13:50 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.8 PL6]

Green, Peter G. (pggreen@juliet.caltech.edu) wrote:
: Help!
: 
: Mine have gotten really bad and considerable amounts of water and
: baking soda haven't been able to do the job.  Any suggestions are
: welocome; I don't want my girlfriend to quit climbing with me!
: Email replies will be summarized if appropriate.
: 
: Thanks,
: -Peter Green
: pgg@chemsys.caltech.edu
: 

I occasionally wash my shoes.  I climb without socks and my feet tend
to sweat alot (gross), so my shoes really stink and they eventually
stretch out.  So when they get really bad I run water in the inside, 
swish it around and work it through the lining, then dump it out. 
Note: I don't fully submerge the shoes.  It seems to work just fine,
but it definitely *shrinks* my shoes (the shoes I've washed are Boreal
Ballets).

John Morton (another netter) uses powder in his shoes, and also opening
the tongue up to dry out the inside and setting them in the sun.

-bobbie
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: czichon@psyche.csc.ti.com (Cary Czichon)
Subject: Re: ATC Recall
Organization: Texas Instruments
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 18:20:17 GMT

In article <1992Nov14.001340.620@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>
mmartin@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu (Mike Martin) writes:

>I heard today that there was a recall of BD ATC by REI because
>of a problem which BD was addressing in ATC delivered after
>October, 1992.  I don't know what the problem is but I have
>heard a RUMOR (not necessarily to be believed) that the device
>was believed to cause excesssive rope wear on rappel.

>I called the Seattle 800 number for REI and confirmed that
>a recall had been issued for ATC delivered before October, 1992.
>I don't know if it is a BD recall or an REI recall but REI
>suggested a return to an REI store or to some address which
>I didn't take down because there are 2 REI stores in this area.

>REI was offering refunds or replacement although they haven't
>had any stock for a while.

>The RUMOR claimed that the device caused too sharp a bend in
>the rope.  Is anyone out there in touch with BD to confirm
>or deny?

>mike martin
>mmartin@math.du.edu

Readers, Black Diamond is NOT recalling ATCs.  I called them about this
posting.  Mine was not the first phone call.  An REI employee found a surface
defect (burr or sharp edge?) on the inside of the ATC he owned causing
excessive wear to his rope.  REI may be replacing ATCs they've sold that have
similar surface defects.  I'm not sure of their plans.  I've heard of no
other instances of such defects.

Black Diamond knows of no design defects in the ATC.  I, and all of my climbing
friends feel that it's the best belay device commonly sold at climbing shops.

Cary Czichon
czichon@csc.ti.com
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: davin@hardy.u.washington.edu (David Veale)
Subject: Ramer avalanche beacons
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 22:15:04 GMT

Has anyone tried one of the new Ramer avalanche beacons?  Are they any good?
Also, what prices have you seen on other beacons (i.e. anything cheap?)

					-Dave
From: AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: USFS Backcountry Fees
Date: 17 Nov 1992 14:04:01 -0800
Organization: Stanford University
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: morrow.stanford.edu

I have just seen a news report on a proposal to charge user fees for
backpacking and hiking use of the National Forests.  My first
response was negative.  However, to say that the money collected
would be used to replace logging revenues.  The implication was that
for every $1 collected from backpackers there would be $1 less in
timber sales.  If this is true I would be inclined to change my
view.

Does anyone have more information on this proposal?  If it would
really reduce logging and new logging roads, I think a lot of people
would be very interested.

Marc Whitney
as.msw@FORSYTHE.stanford.edu

Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: Doug.Hemken@launchpad.unc.edu (Doug Hemken)
Subject: Re: USFS Backcountry Fees
Organization: University of North Carolina Extended Bulletin Board Service
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 17:53:48 GMT


Fees for use should be proportional to the maintenance and facilities in
an area.  You shouldn't have to pay (an individual user fee) for a simple walk
in a public woods.

-=> Doug Hemken
--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: Salathe 
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 92 01:44:21 GMT

My favorite Salathe story concerns his trip to a small little spire
in Sequoia with a 4K ft. approach.  All Salathe wanted from Steck
was a little orange juice to go with his dates.  Having done that
approach, I did not regard it as trivial.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Associate Editor, Software and Publication Reviews
  Scientific Programming
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Seeking Books to buy:	Bongard, Pattern Recognition
			3 down 1 to go.
From: bobh@minaret.hwr.arizona.edu (Bob Harrington)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Macho quiz (for Laura)
Date: 16 Nov 92 22:46:26 GMT
Organization: University of Arizona -- Tucson, AZ

In article <13543@ecs.soton.ac.uk> tpm@ecs (TP Monks) writes:
>
>I guess that I'm exempt from Laura's recent complaint since I'm British,
>so here goes for a dumb macho survey barely disguised as science:
>
>I've been climbing for almost 2 yrs now and have trained pretty hard,
>figuring that the more pull ups and wrist curls you can do, the harder
>you can climb.  Since January however, my strength has hardly improved
>at all, but my climbing has got way better, leading me to consider the
>fact that maybe technique has something to do with it as well (what a 
>radical idea!).
>			   
>So, maybe pull-ups aren't everything.  In order to check this *astonishing*
>premise it would be nice to check the pull-up to grade correlation.
>All you need to do is send me a message with all relevant info in the 
>subject field. I'll post the results, from which you will be able to 
>ascertain to no less than three decimal points exactly how your climbing 
>grade will or will not increase by learning to do that one extra 
>pull-up :->.
>
>Here's an American example:
>	Subject: 5.10 #32
>And a British one:
>	Subject: E3 #7

The results could be interesting, so let's try to do this right. We need
to be more specific as to what constitutes our "climbing grade". Should
we send you:

higest grade ever red pointed             # of pull-ups could do at 
                                            the time

higest grade ever on-sighted                          "

grade that would have a 90%               # number of pull-ups can do
success rate on today                       today

something else??

>Hey, this could be interesting!  Perhaps all you tanned Californian muscled
>rock athletes in Lycra out there have a low grade/pull-up ratio from 
>climbing all those steep never-ending cracks, whereas us English have a
>high one from climbing those stubby little stanage routes with sloping
>rounded breaks whilst wearing bobble hats!
>

I think you are right in expecting the degree of correlation to depend on the
type of climbing that people do. Pull-up strength almost completely controls
how hard a route you can do in the Shawangunks, whereas it's almost irrelevant
in slab climbing. I think the correlation between finger strength and climbing
ability is likely to be stronger. Or better, finger strength divided by body
weight.

>Flame on, I'm waiting!
>
>Tim
>
>   
>--
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Tim Monks                                Vision, Speech and Signal Processing
>tpm@ecs.soton.ac.uk                                    Southampton University
>Tel: +44 (703) 592774                                   Fax: +44 (703) 592895


Bob Harrington
bobh@hwr.arizona.edu
From: ma91amc@cen.ex.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: A pain in the shin!
Date: 23 Nov 92 15:00:57 GMT
Organization: University of Exeter, UK.

blah blah "shin splints"
It is unlikly that you are suffering from shin splints
These are stress fractures of the shin, and are more often caused by actions
such as running. Quite often long jumpers and triple jumpers get them
As both a climber and a runner i sort of have a joint interest here
A while back before i took up climbing i had these pains just as you describe
I had them to the point where it hurt every time i went out on a run, after
only a moderate distance.
All the doctor said to me was that it was just the muscles around the shin
growing at a faster rate than the sheaths in which they are contained.
This exerts a great pressure,and causes this pain.
Take some time off, and try new shoes was the advice i was given
It would appear that unless you are landing heavily on your shins a lot, then 
your problem will be similar to mine

But all i can offer is this little consolation
If you were suffering from shin splints then the cure would be this
Take a LONG (region of 4-6 months) break from exercise that will exert pressure
on your shins
I guess buying a new pair of boots that maybe fit better has got to be better 
than being grounded for 6 months

As for the effect on fingers,.. well i don't have a clue beyond the fact that 
i'm not a particularly good climber and i keep ripping mine to shreds

Adrian.
Newsgroups: rec.climbing