HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: lovegod@wam.umd.edu (Donald Andrew Agarrat)
Subject: Re: My *sigh* ad in the Washington Blade
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 22:16:28 GMT

In article <1992Dec14.151901.1@mscf.med.upenn.edu>  
smith@mscf.med.upenn.edu (Amelia T. Smith) writes:
} In article <1992Dec7.174728.23397@spdcc.com>, joe@spdcc.com  
(Joseph Francis) writes:
} [...] 
} >   Have you tried the D.C.
} > Eagle? There are a fair number of men of color there without
} > out-of-water attitude...
} Seriously, I went to the D.C. Eagle in early October; had an 
} excellent time, good conversation, and my beers kept getting 
} cheaper as the bartender and I discovered that we had more in 
} common than skin color, sexual preference, and the wearin' o' 
} the leather. 
} 
} Even had one guy walk over and tell us how nice it was to see 
} "girls" in the bar ... <shrug> I thanked him. I thought he was 
} sincerely trying to make us feel welcome. So what if he called 
} me something I haven't been in (seems like) eons?
} 
} So, I second jojo's suggestion of the D.C. Eagle.
} 
} Father Amelia

But, Father Amelia and Mama Jojo, *puts his head down in shame*  
I have no leather garments ...

Donald - Leatherless
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Roy Romer Writes Me
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 02:39:43 GMT


Received today from Colorado Governor Roy Romer:
------------------------------------------------

December 10, 1992

Dear Mr. Anderson:

Thank you for informing me of your views regarding the
recent voter approval of Amendment 2.

As you undoubtedly know, I opposed Amendment 2 when it was
proposed and I remain personally opposed to this measure.
However, as Governor of Colorado, I have an obligation to
enforce its provisions and will do so.

I believe that the proponents of this amendment incorrectly
presented it as preventing gays and lesbians from being
granted special rights.  The truth is that claim was merely
a clouding of the issue.  Factually, the issue involves
making certain that all Colorado residents are treated
equally under the law.

Sexual orientation should not be permitted to be used in
this state as an excuse for denial of civil rights or
employment opportunities.  I believe that every American and
every Coloradan should be protected against discrimination
regardless of age, religion, sex, sexual orientation or
race.  And although Colorado will adhere to the law and its
provisions, I will work hard to ensure that it is not used
as an excuse for discrimination.

I believe we must use this time of dispute to begin to build
a better understanding among Colorado's people of the
importance and value of diversity.  It is that diversity
that I believe makes Colorado a very special place to live.
It can also help make this state the kind of place where
all people, including residents and visitors, are
comfortable and treated with equality.

Sincerely,

/s/ Roy Romer
Governor

-- 
[Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin]
[Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson]
[Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888]
[---------> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <---------]
From: wolfe@wolves.Durham.NC.US (G. Wolfe Woodbury)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: A reply to Mr. Pierce (was Re: PHOBE ALERT: That XX Louis Sheldon...)
Date: 16 Dec 92 17:31:28 GMT
Organization: Red Wolfe @ The Wolves Den
X-Md4-Signature: 5c4c82652c75b5b1ab31d6b50c0f5a85

bob@dolores.Stanford.EDU (Bob Lodenkamper) writes:
>wolfe@wolves.Durham.NC.US (G. Wolfe Woodbury) writes: 
>
>	   Or have we forgotten that the freedom we have to speak depends
>   on defending the freedom to speak for EVERYONE.
>
>	   Better to put up with a bit of discomfort than to submit to
>   tyranny -- whether the tyranny be of the "fundies" or of the
>   "politically correct."
>
>............
>
>Am I reading this right?  Do you really think "freedom of speech"
>means "freedom from criticism"?
>
>And, if the criticism is itself speech, how does free speech defend
>the original and not the criticism?

No, I am not suggesting that there isn't an equal right to criticize the
words andor actions of someone who makes a statement in the midst of
the debate.

I am reacting to the (which appears to me as) mindless and automatic reactions
of some forks to the casual appearance of "bitch" in a posting.  The use of
that word *is* (admittedly) misogynist, but no more or less so than lots of
other words used in all sorts of places.

My sensitivity in these cases is that I seem to be seeing objections to
the use of language that is motivated by the "facist" protectors of
"political correctness" simply because what is being talked about is
something that is disagreed with.  I see similar uses of words and
phrases in posts by others passed over with absolutely NO comments
about the inappropriate language, but that is in threads where the
PoPC (protectors of political correctness) are engaging each other in
full caballistic amity.

(I doesn't help that I've been getting around to reading motss at 1 and 2 am
in the mornings!)
-- 
G. Wolfe Woodbury @ The Wolves Den, Durham NC	[This site is NOT affiliated  ]
wolfe@wolves.durham.nc.us			[with Duke University! Idiots!]
UUCP: ...!duke!wolves!wolfe      <Standard Disclaimers apply>
    Above All, we celebrate!  --Celebrate the Circle, Statement of Purpose.
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Hi Honey, I'm home (GKTT85)
Date: 16 Dec 92 23:24:04 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Dec16.232404.15042
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1992Dec16.224037.6480@psych.toronto.edu> jarvis@psych.toronto.edu (Brian Jarvis) writes:
>The Cohens were looking quite good -tasty even- when I was last in their
>area; I'm sure they'll have more to add.

Well, I'm going to have to wait for an introduction.

Who _are_ these "Cohens of New England"?  I'm afraid I only know the
San Francisco Cohens who live in the Haight.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: gandalf@dworkin.ccs.northeastern.edu (Thomas M Farrell)
Subject: Re: Aladdin (was Re: Jason and the Argonauts)
Organization: College of Computer Science, Northeastern University
	<1992Dec2.222931.23887@usl.edu> <1992Dec14.235201.5875@dvorak.amd.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 02:33:14 GMT

In article <1992Dec14.235201.5875@dvorak.amd.com> tdbear@dvorak.amd.com (Thomas D. Barrett) writes:

   >
   >"I am getting pretty fond of you, kid.... *Not* that I am ready to 
   >pick-out curtains or anything, you know" 
   >                  -the Blue Genie to Aladdin

   I definitely caught this one the first time AND the second time.  It
   wasn't IMHO anything worse than Men on Films type humor... it was 
   a little stereotypical, but was not otherwise attacking.  I wouldn't
   think that it would be negative to a g/l youth.

I thought it was very funny, and I wouldn't have been offended if one
of my friends said it to me.

   As a side point... I hate to admit it, but I am absolutely in love
   with Aladdin... can't decide if it is the singer or the voice-over
   guy or even the animation guy... 

I have a friend who looks like Aladin, but he's str8.

			Tom
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: fogarty@sir-c.jpl.nasa.gov (Tim Fogarty)
Subject: Re: soc.foo
Organization: JPL, Shuttle Imaging Radar Software Group
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 02:12:59 GMT


|>In article <18164@autodesk.COM> owen@autodesk.com (D. Owen Rowley) writes:
|>>I'd also like to add my support for dumping the *motss* tag.

|>>Of course I prefer soc.queer, and understand that there are folks
|>>who have problems with that label, but ther doesn't seem to be another
|>>word that sums it up so neatly.
|>
|>I'd like to suggest that we use "soc.gay", and that we declare by
|>group fiat that "gay" covers all of us. Before you flame: I'm a
|>bisexual, so I've been told that "gay" doesn't cover me. But it's
|>still fairly inclusive, and we can make it more so.

soc.lesbigay

--
Tim Fogarty
Sys Man and Sys Admin for the EGSE in the POCC at JSC for SRL-1, STS-59
FOGARTY@SIR-C.JPL.NASA.GOV
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance)
Subject: Please ignore
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 03:31:44 GMT

Sorry, it just struck me that I read a whole day's worth of soc.motss
without posting or following-up on anything, and my cabal membership
clearly stipulates that I must post daily. Please excuse the interruption.

John

(ObMotss: So... how 'bout them genitalia?)

--
thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu * John Dorrance * Kiss me, I'm an aphrodisiac!

		...and may all your Yuletides be trite.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: brent@syacus.acus.oz.au (Brent Davies)
Subject: Re: An "enlightening" experience
Organization: Australian Centre for Unisys Software, Melbourne
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 01:14:15 GMT

mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon) writes:

>In article <1992Dec10.012319.8168@syacus.acus.oz.au>,
>brent@syacus.acus.oz.au (Brent Davies) wrote:

>[on Andrew S.'s complaint that 'cabal' is anti-semetic]

>> You box shadows, sir!  :-)

>Now, Andrew may actually be serious, in which case this misses the
>mark completely.  

I assumed he was. Perhaps you could clarify, Andrew?

>However, at a dinner with Big Bob and the Furry
>Aviatrix (who sez that to improve domestic situations, you should
>microwave your partners cats...) - I mentioned complaining about
>the "Like Buttah" skit as 'anti-semetic.'  The point being not
>that I felt it actually was a vicious piece of comedy, but that
>there is a tendency on soc.motss to cry 'homophobia' and 'misogyny'
>at the very slightest provocation.

I would say, "there is a tendency on soc.motss to *name* homophobia and
misogyny whenever they're detected." From what I've seen over the weeks,
Matthew, I doubt we'll ever agree on this issue.

>To remove from daily usage every word which gave the slightest
>offense to a member of any such group would leave the language
>rather poor (not to mention the fact that it would never work...)

Of course. And that was my point.

--Brent Davies (brent@syacus.acus.oz.au)
From: mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Pittsburg, Pa
Date: 17 Dec 92 21:29:13 GMT
Organization: (getting there)

markm@ogicse.ogi.edu (Mark Morrissey) describes what he claims is
the official cabal application.  There must be a Reason that I
repeatedly construed deatil #3:
 >3. It must bear a notary seal (raised fonts on CRT's is soooo tricky).
as
"an otary seal."

Mustn't there?

Mara [who is wondering just when Steve will get the software that
     morphs her into Arne-- or was that vice versa?]
-- 

  Mara Chibnik
  mara@panix.com                Life is too important to be taken seriously.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore)
Subject: Re: Castro Street (Re: Two threads: women posting and "cures" and its spinoffs)
Organization: Cornell Theory Center
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 16:43:11 GMT

[] 
There are several problems here, not the least of which
is that we really don't share a history.  My own feeling is
that if I spent all my time reacting to the considerable
misogyny on the net I'd miss what little traffic there is
that actually interests me.  It became quite clear shortly
after Melmon's appearance here, for example, that he's a
raving woman-hater, and because he has nothing worthwhile
or interesting to contribute I would't miss anything if he
were to be deposited in my kill file.  If everyone did the
same it would mean that he would rant on unchallenged, but
the best thing about people like that is that if you ignore
them they genuinely do go away.  *HINT*.

This is not Steve's newsgroup, or Greg's newsgroup, or
Jess' newsgroup, and there is no cabal.  How many times
must it be said that if you don't like the content, it's
incumbent upon you to change it?  I was baffled by your
request that the men talk about something that you find
interesting, and that you then were offended by Greg's
response.  The only way to guarantee that things will go in
a direction that you find pleasing is to steer them there
yourself.  You can't stop the stupid or insensitive
responses to women's posts, but you can choose to ignore
them or to address them in a way that doesn't cause the
discussion to deteriorate further (yeah, I know - not my
forte, exactly).

BTW, on the subject of insensitivity, I think it does
indicate that sometimes men will go out of their way to
indulge the women for fear of appearing anti-woman that
nobody has called you on the "shyster" thing.  Unlike
"cabal," which may or may not have roots in "kabbalah"
but isn't obviously anti-Jewish, "shyster" is quite
obviously antisemitic and I, for one, am not comfortable
with its use.
--
       Melinda Shore - Cornell Theory Center - shore@tc.cornell.edu
From: dh0a@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (DONALD L. HARDY)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Drooling over the "Europa, Europa" guy.
Date: 16 Dec 92 14:16:58 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

>>...there is no motss content in [Europa, Europa]...
>Not quite true. While the hero is in a Nazi infantry unit, he's
>befriended by a soldier who (they heavily imply) is gay.

"...heavily imply....?  Groping him in the tub and chasing him around the
barn is an implication?  And the scene where the character dies?  Where
Solomon kissed him (which scene ripped me apart, but then I am a real sucker
for such stuff)?

No question in MY mind!

D.
-- 

******************************************************************************

Donald L. Hardy                                    Office of Physical Planning
Project Planner                                    Lehigh University
dh0a@lehigh.edu                                    (215) 758 5110
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton)
Subject: Re: A Taste of Culture
Keywords: Gay food 
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 05:25:47 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.190330.21999@tc.cornell.edu> shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore) writes:
>
>Too bad you're not a lesbian, or else you'd be able to
>bring in some sort of disgustingly texture-free grey
>casserole made of lentils, potatos, and rice in an
>earthenware container.

This may be on the way out.  To my surprise, several people on the "immune"
mailing list are touting meat and sugar as the way to a healthy life. 


-- 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Hamilton   jfh@netcom.com   P. O. Box 281107   SF, CA   94128-1107
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rjwill6@pbsdts.sdcrc.pacbell.com (Rod Williams)
Subject: Irish President Meets with LesBiGays
Originator: rjwill6@pbsdts.sdcrc.pacbell.com
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, California
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 23:23:00 GMT


My indispensable source for Irish news, the weekly,
e-mailed "Irish Emigrant", informs me:

     - President Robinson met a delegation representing homosexual
       groups at Aras an Uachtarain on Saturday.

I remember Cathal mentioning some time ago that this
meeting was planned.  I do hope he, or another faithful
Irish motssketeer, will give us a full report...
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
rod williams -=- pacific bell -=- san ramon, ca -=- rjwill6@pacbell.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: spencer@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (S. Spencer Sun)
Subject: request for Langston Hughes poem
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: spencer@phoenix.princeton.edu (S. Spencer Sun)
Organization: Live Organ Transplants
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 05:21:00 GMT

Over the summer, someone posted a poem by Langston Hughes.  I forget the
title, but it's a basically a monologue from a man to his mother
(actually, I guess it would be an apostrophe, but anyway) about him
passing her earlier in the day and not being able to acknowledge her
presence, because while she's obviously black, he is so light as to be
able to pass for white, so he couldn't make it appear as if he knew her.

It would come in handy for a discussion I'm having in e-mail... so, I'd
really appreciate it if someone could mail it to me (or post it?  Dunno.
Elf recently re-posted the broken glasses parable so ... ;-) )

-----
sss/PU'94 Dept of CS (spencer@phoenix.princeton.edu)/JvNCnet (spencer@jvnc.net)
"The subtle, truly debilitating manifestations of a degenerate society are
twofold.  First, the ruling class no longer cares for the proletariat.
Second, the proletariat no longer cares."  [J. G. Betancourt, "Johnny Zed"]

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: dbidwa@sei.cmu.edu (Daniel Bidwa)
Subject: Re: Devil CD's
Organization: Software Engineering Institute
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 16:49:40 EST

Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison):
> One of the things I like about Metallica is James
> Hetfield's interesting, intelligent and INTELLIGIBLE lyrics; they
> don't have a great deal of competition in this field, IMHO.

Me: 
>Metallica, blech, Megadeth, blech.

nasiatka@anhep3.anl.gov.bitnet (Jim Wylde Heavy Metal Homo):
>But what yer both not mentioning is that *both* of them have
>serious political views, and express them in thier music, and
>at least try to make a difference, unlike some of the other
>metal bands that can't get past cars and broads (yeecchh!)

Wellll, while neither group is singing about cars and broads, they're also not
exactly breaking new lyrical ground any more. Over a five record stretch,
Metallica has covered the war/death/isolation/lonliness territory pretty much
to the exclusion of anything else -- maybe not the "get wasted and party"
cliche, but no less a cliche. (Admittedly, Metallica was/is one of the biggest
influences on the heavier metal scene, and are the reason so many bands have
that big-midrange-small-treble-Marshall-on-10 guitar chuk-chuk-chuk sound.) I
personally find the w/d/i/l cliche a bit more palatable than the beer and
babes bit, but it's hardly any different in the end than, say, the Smiths.

And the idea that either band has serious political views is ludicrous.

Dan, who's lately been listening to death metal, which sings (um) about
serious political stuff like dismemberment and necrophilia

p.s. Never heard of Helot Revolt, but I'm kind of on the wrong coast for that.
More info?
Xref: sparky soc.motss:53011 soc.bi:16812
From: solovay@netcom.com (Andrew M. Solovay)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.bi
Subject: Re: The MOW Platform (was Re: NOTICE - Details...)
Date: 18 Dec 92 19:05:33 GMT
Organization: People's Front of Judea

In article <1992Dec17.030649.32173@watson.ibm.com> jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com (Jake Coughlin) writes:
>mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas):
>>   Let's turn this around, if the inner sanctum were run by
>> a bunch of libertarians and did some pretty good PR would
>> you feel quite as comfortable? 
>
>wrong question.  the correct question is: would you march?
>answer: grinding my teeth.

Ah, but the devil is in the details. Suppose the MOW platform had
the following demands:

    We demand complete freedom of conscience in all matters,
    whether personal, sexual, or financial. Therefore we demand
    that all minimum wage and rent control laws be abolished.

    More than most people, we are in danger of physical violence
    from bigots. We therefore insist on the right to defend
    ourselves as necessary, and demand that all gun-control laws
    be abolished.

    We demand that the government stop intruding on people's 
    lives by forcing them to support charities which they might
    otherwise reject. Accordingly we demand that all taxpayer-
    funded welfare, food-stamp, and medical programs be
    eliminated.

Now would you march? Come on, this would make the platform more
inclusive, wouldn't it? It would help reach out to the
libertarian wing. Surely you wouldn't feel excluded by such an
inclusive action?
-- 
Andrew Solovay    
                "I know that, in America and under capitalism,
                 I am the freest woman in history."
                                --- Camille Paglia
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon)
Subject: Re: The MOW Platform (was Re: NOTICE - Details...)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 18:37:20 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.
Followup-To: soc.motss,soc.bi

In article <1992Dec15.015407.16075@gordian.com>, mike@gordian.com (Michael
A. Thomas) wrote:

>   Oh bother. Why do even try.

With this one, daaahhhhlink -

   jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com

- it ain't worth it. Trying will just wind him up tighter and tighter,
until the shrill schreeecchhhh of tinkerbell angst shatters your
screen and leaves you blind with disbelief.

*X* 
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance)
Subject: Re: Have yourself a fairy little X-Mas (Re: It's That Time of Y
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 07:26:05 GMT

markm@ogicse.ogi.edu (Mark Morrissey) writes:

>And if you find them, John dear (not John Deer), please send them

DeerE! *Three* e's, dammit. I live in Nebraska; I should know.

>over.  Maybe I can show them something else to do with their hands.

You wish. And don't ask which instruments I was thinking of...

--
thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu * John Dorrance * Kiss me, I'm an aphrodisiac!

		...and may all your Yuletides be trite.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: More perks for homos.
Keywords: perks, homos
Organization: Elitist Usenet Administrators, Turkey Division
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 17:46:37 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.204109.22265@leland.Stanford.EDU> prufrock@leland.Stanford.EDU (Scot N Gibson) writes:

>Made me *proud* to be a fag.

Move to the Amherst-Northampton area.  You can't go outside without
tripping over a Toyota or Big-Dodge-Truck (tm) covered with
faggot/dyke stickers.  They start to *bore* you after a while!  It's
great.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / 
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /               Rocks say goodbye.
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) / 
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Soc.Motss.*
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 03:43:14 GMT

In article <BzCy82.C6D@hpuerca.atl.hp.com>
mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Mike Reaser) writes:

>>I await superior suggestions.

>How about soc.motss.support?  If the intention for the group is that it
>is a place where motssers can go for a "shoulder to lean on" (whether 
>the problem is coming out, relationship issues, whatever), then wouldn't
>"support" be a little clearer?

I wasn't thinking only of a shoulder to lean on - style
things, but support is not so bad, either.  I'm sure that
for some people it conjures up images they don't care for,
but depite my current fondness for "being," I could live
with "support" too.

-- 
[Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin]
[Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson]
[Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888]
[---------> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <---------]
Newsgroups: soc.motss