HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tanner@sundog.nas.nasa.gov (Leigh Ann Tanner)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: How long until no longer sick in daycare ?
Date: 10 Nov 92 00:43:00 GMT
Organization: NAS Program, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA

In article <Bx8v20.DA2@unix.amherst.edu>, njamal@unix.amherst.edu (Nuhad Jamal) writes:
|> Heather A Rothwell (tedybear@ravel.udel.edu) wrote:
|> : I work in a daycare center.  Since I started work at the end of August
|> : there has not been one week that I have not been ill, strep throat,
|> : broncitus times 2, a flu here, a bug there (here a bug...there a
|> : flu...everywhere a bug/flu).  No this is not "Old Macdonald's farm"  it is
|> : a daycare that has a policy of allowing any child, regardless of illness
|> : to be in the school.  Yellow gunked noses, wipe them... Child sick in
|> : stomach, put him on a mat to sleep.  We do not send any child home unless
|> : they need to go to the hospital first.  The one exception to this is pink
|> : eye, but even children with that are allowed into the center if they have
|> : medicine (who cares that they have only been taking it 5 min.).  
|> : 
|> : So advice to parents (though it wasn't asked for):
|> : 
|> : Check you daycare  centers policy on what happens with ill children and
|> : staff.  I know that because I have NO sick leave, I have gone to work with
|> : many things that would have kept me out of a public school..  (Please
|> : don't flame me for making the children ill, I an desperate for the money. 
|> : If I don't work, I don't get payed.)
|> : 
|> : 
|> 
|> Checking out a daycare center's policy is an excellent idea...unfortunately
|> it isn't always followed by all parents at all times.  When my son was
|> in daycare not too long ago (he's six now), I remember being upset a lot of
|> the time because parents ignored the center's policy (which was quite
|> strict -- e.g. you can't send your child in until he/she has been on
|> antibiotics for at least 24 hours, etc.) and sent their kids to the
|> center sick.  This led to much bad feeling on the part of the teachers
|> who would have to call the parents to come and pick up their sick kids.
|> It also led to much anger on the part of the parents who were constantly
|> called to pick up their children.  
|> 

I would think that if this policy was *written* down, how could there
be any hard feelings between the parents and teachers.  Our child care
center also has a strict policy about sick children, and yes,
sometimes it is difficult to pick up your child even if they only
have a yellow nose.  But in the long run, I think that everyone benefits
in that everyone's children will be healthier.

Leigh Ann
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: mdw@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (mark.d.wuest)
Subject: Re: Plain Talk About Spanking (long)
Organization: AT&T
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 15:42:58 GMT

In article <1992Nov03.225340.2218016@locus.com> judy@locus.com (Judy Leedom Tyrer) writes:

> [stuff deleted]

>Rather than the same old flame war and same old diatribe about this subject,
>why don't we do what 20/20 didn't do and address positive ways of disciplining
>without spanking.  Our church (yes, we are Christian) is currently teaching
>a course on parenting and spanking is NOT included in the list of things to
>do to discipline children.  However, firm discipline is encouraged.  We are
>working on natural and logical consequences.

> [stuff deleted]

>Our church course has some wonderful scenarios I'd be happy to post if people
>would like to really discuss this issue.

I think we'd like to see them.

Mark
-- 
Mark Wuest                              |     *MY* opinions, not AT&T's!!
mark.wuest@att.com                      |
mdw@cheshire.att.com (NeXT Mail)        |
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: mmeyer@m2.dseg.ti.com (Mark Meyer)
Subject: Re: 20/20 and Spanking
Organization: TI DSEG, Spring Creek, Plano, Tx.
	<5NOV199212085653@eldyn.gsfc.nasa.gov> <1dbvf3INN9vo@mizar.usc.edu>
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 22:44:44 GMT

In article <1dbvf3INN9vo@mizar.usc.edu> biddleco@mizar.usc.edu (Susan Biddlecomb) writes:
> We've decided it's obviously a defiance thing and not a toilet training
> thing and we've begun to exercise punishment in the same way we do for
> ... anything ... she knows not to do. Will it work? We'll see.

	What, pray tell, is this punishment?  Let me say that, given
the controversial nature of this topic, I'm not trying to bait you.
Speaking as a future parent (though not for AT LEAST another 9 months)
I would like to know what other parents do.  Though I myself was
spanked a few times, I want to minimize or eliminate spanking my child
as much as possible.  My wife has less of a problem with spanking as
punishment. 
	
	Now that I think about it, the few times I was spanked, I
cannot now remember why.  However, I distinctly remember why I was
asked to choose my own punishment (no Saturday cartoons) once; that
was for lying.  I remember the specific incident too.  (Maybe I should
have been a lawyer, since that Saturday I watched the live-action
kids' shows. :-) )

-- 
Mark Meyer                                               | mmeyer@dseg.ti.com |
Texas Instruments, Inc.                                  +--------------------+
Every day, Jerry Junkins is grateful that I don't speak for TI.
                "I just had a deja vu experience."  "Hey, just like last time!"
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: JUTTA.LAGE@OFFICE.WANG.COM ("Jutta Lage")
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: My tour of the hospital...
Date: 11 Nov 92 17:14:33 GMT
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs

This is in regards to above article by Tracy Larrabee...I think you actually
lucked out with your birthing center having all these extras like squat bars
etc. My hospital allows me to assume any position I want for the birth and the
nurses are absolutely open-minded and very friendly...that is why I chose
that particular one. They told me February was a quiet month for biths, so I mi
ght get the luxurious birthing room...hm.... but all of the rooms have showers
anyway. It sounds like your hospital has everything you could ask for. How is t
he staff?
What I laughed about in my hospital were the NARROW beds. Almost looked redicul
ous! I might end up on the floor.... Good luck, Jutta
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: allen@tessi.com (Allen Warren)
Subject: Re: What does it mean when it's WHITE?
Organization: Test Systems Strategies, Inc., Beaverton, Oregon
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 21:54:35 GMT

kvt@willow.mitre.org writes:

> her daughter
>had a BM that resulted in an almost floresent
>green color. 

>Any info would be greatly appreciated.

My sons have both had ear infections, colds, etc.
One of the telltale signs of a virus or
infection coming on is the florescent green
stool.  We always knew the boys were getting
sick when we saw this stool.

allen
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: choi@wk59.nas.nasa.gov (Diana Choi)
Subject: Re: 20/20 and Spanking
Organization: NAS Program, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 92 18:29:38 GMT

(Diane Lin) writes:
>....  Spanking a child for playing with matches will not instill in
>him a healthy respect for the danger inherent in that action, IMHO.
>Rather, it might even heighten his curiosity about the object.

Yes, in fact experiments have shown that warning a child in a mild manner 
is more effective than shouting, threatening, or hitting.  The more excited 
behavior SEEMS to be more effective in the short-term (the same day), but
in the long run (the day after) the child tends to remember the
behavior but not what it was about.  Apparently, the more excited behavior 
is too distracting and prevents the child from internalizing the information.  

Other studies show a high correlation between spanking and physical
aggression and low self-esteem in children.

diana
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: Tamara Shaffer <SASTLS@mvs.sas.com>
Subject: Re: Hearing baby's heartbeat at 9 weeks??
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 15:26:00 GMT
Organization: SAS Institute Inc.

>From: baby@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (maureen.paone)
>Message-ID: <1992Nov4.135849.17167@cbnewsj.cb.att.com>
>
>Pardon me if this article has already appeared, I tried to post once
>but I didnt think it made it. Anyway, I am now in my 10th week of
>pregnancy with my third child. Last week I had my first OB visit, and
>along with discussing all the usual stuff (tests, diet etc.) my OB
>decided to listen for the babies heartbeat. He said if he didnt
>hear it, then I shouldn't be concerned. Well he tried it for a while
>to no avail and he then seemed concerned. When I asked him why he
>was showing concern he said that someone as thin as me (god, is he
>blind!!) we should be able to hear it. He then told me to come back
>in one week and if we still didnt hear it then I was to go right in
>for a sonogram.
>
>Ok, now for my questions. Isnt nine weeks a little early to hear the
>heartbeat? I thought with my first it was more like 11 - 12 weeks.
>Has anyone else been through something similar with their OB? Do you
>feel that not hearing the heartbeat at 9 weeks is something to be
>concerned about? Any input you can provide will be appreciated.
>
>Thanks, 
>Maureen 
>--
>*************************************************
>Maureen A. Paone                                *
>Proud Mama to Bryan Michael and Shawn Elizabeth *
>*************** 8-18-88 *********** 4-27-91 *****
 
Maureen, 
I wouldn't be concerned about not hearing the baby's heartbeat
at 9 weeks.  (Of course, I'm not a doctor.)  We heard our baby's
heartbeat last Friday -- I was 12 wks + 6 days.  It was *very*
faint, and the Dr. had to chase it around for a *long* time
before we heard anything.  (I'm thin too.  Well, not overweight
anyway.) :)
TAMARA
mommy to Melissa (5/1/91) and ? (due 5/8/93)
(ps -- Melissa and Shawn are only 5 days apart!  Looks like your
 due date is close to mine too.  Susan Davis, are you reading this?)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: lauraf@classy.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Laura Floom)
Subject: Re: 20/20 and Spanking
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 03:36:22 GMT

In article <1d9s2fINNp09@matt.ksu.ksu.edu> bets@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Beth Schwindt) writes:
>I have a question for everyone here, having heard all of the arguments
>going both directions.
>
>Did anyone whose parents didn't spank ever wish they did, rather than
>the punishment they actually received?
>
>Many times, my father would scream and yell at me for a long time.
>Gradually, I learned to tune him out.  He would have been much more
>effective in disciplining me if he *had* spanked, instead .....

not if the spanking had gone along the same vein as his incessant yelling.
It may have quickly turned into a very abusive situation. What you are saying
is that you wished your father had better parenting skills. How about if
he would have sat down with you and talked to you about it? If you are 
following this thread, you have probably seen the techniques that some of
the non-spanking parents use. Wouldnt you have preferred that sort of thing?

Laura Floom
From: albert@endor.uucp (David Albert)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Plain Talk About Spanking (long)
Date: 6 Nov 92 01:36:58 GMT
Article-I.D.: das.1992Nov6.013658.18534
Organization: Aiken Computation Lab, Harvard University

dsc@gemini.tmc.edu (Doug S. Caprette Bldg. 28 W191 x3892) writes:

>>>4) How can you teach children to be respectful if you don't respect
>>>them?
>Why should this argument apply only to spanking, and not to any other form
>of punishment?

It should.  It does.  I don't believe in 'punishment'.  That does not
mean that I think you can let people (of any age) do things that hurt
themselves or others.  And as a parent you have more of a responsibility
to prevent a child from hurting people than in other sorts of relationships.

There are all sorts of ways to do this.  If you need to restrain someone,
you restrain them.  If someone is tired and needs a rest, you can remove
them from a situation.  If someone has caused harm, you can require
restitution, up to the ability of the person to restore what was damaged.

But punishment nowhere enters into it, as far as I am concerned.  I don't
believe that punishment is a good or useful thing. In fact, I believe that
punishment 'qua' punishment is always counter-productive.  It focuses
attention on the badness rather than on the correct way to behave.  It
makes the person being punished feel victimized rather than sorry.

>If I were to post about scolding a child,
>would you think it inappropriate to equate that with a story about someone
>screaming and cursing at a child?  (Oh Oh, here comes another thread.)

Depends.  What do you mean when you use the word "scolding"?  I don't
"scold" children.  If they have done something that is harmful or
dangerous or anti-social, and I don't think they know it, I tell them
so calmly, once.  If I think they do know it, I remind them that they
can't do it, and remove them from the situation if they continue.
I don't reinforce the behavior by spending lots of time talking to them.
They won't hear me after the first 2 words anyway, they'll be busy
thinking up excuses.  "Scoldings" that last more than 3 or 4 seconds are
clearly (to me) counter productive, as well as, in most cases, being
disrespectful.  I would scold a child only in the same circumstances in
which I would scold a stranger on the street; that is to say, extremely
rarely.  No, that's not true. I have also scolded children when I lose
my temper due to their behavior.  It's a fact of life.  But I'm not
proud of that, and it's certainly not a "method" that I use.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Albert				  | Illegitimi non carborundum est.
albert@das.harvard.edu		 	  |
From: davej@gmuvax2.gmu.edu (David F. Juraschek)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Infant Rocks to noises
Date: 11 Nov 92 15:10:33 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: George Mason University

Our 11 month old daughter is very responsive to noises, sounds and 
especially to music.  (Her mommy is a violist in an orchestra and a music
teacher, so she's been exposed to music from conception.)

Whenever we turn on the dishwasher, vacumn, electric shavers or such, she
will rock back and forth (not transfixed, mind you - she just rocks gently).

Do other infants do this?  She indicates no discomfort and can even be
smiling at the time, but does this indicate some sort of irritation to 
the noise?

She's very normal, very very smart, and a very healthy and happy little
girl as far as is discernable.

Just curious.

-Dave
Newsgroups: misc.kids

shack@cs.arizona.edu (David Shackelford) writes:
[about the fact that he has no kids]
>My current status, future intentions notwithstanding, tends to make
>closed-minded people stop listening.

I'm sure you're right.  Why, I even remember someone, way back at
the beginning of this thread, saying:

>I wonder if the "experts" on the program have kids.  If not, they're
>not any better informed than you are.

Now, who could that have been?
From: pburch@bcm.tmc.edu (Paula Burch)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: 20/20 and Spanking
Date: 11 Nov 1992 20:39:32 GMT
Organization: Baylor College of Medicine, Houston, Tx
Distribution: world
Reply-To: pburch@roc.bcm.tmc.edu (Paula Burch)
NNTP-Posting-Host: roc.mbcr.bcm.tmc.edu
Originator: pburch@roc.mbcr.bcm.tmc.edu


In article <1992Nov10.213616.2227858@locus.com>, judy@locus.com 
(Judy Leedom Tyrer) writes:
|> Any growth, maturity, explanation of point of view, etc. that follow one's
|> getting a net.label is ignored and unnoticed.  The mere presence of one of
|> our signatures on a post pushes those flame buttons, regardless of the
|> content of the post.  We are stereotyped, labelled, and summarily dismissed.

Oh, come on, I've been remarking to myself for several days on how wise 
your recent posts have been!

Surely you have to admit that sometimes you enjoy a good flame war, Judy. 
You have seemed to take such glee in so many of them! ;-)

I was very annoyed by your insisting that Christmas should be taught in 
schools, instead of just the church and the home, but I still read 
everything you post. I particularly appreciate your postings on what 
one can do instead of spanking, and I appreciate your being there as 
a sensible Christian to provide a counterbalance to the weird ones.

Until David Shackelford posts on *any* other subject than spanking, he's 
not going to revise any opinions of him.

Some have been dismayed by the course this thread has taken, but I've found 
it very informative. Of course you've got your whackos on the one side, who 
think that children need to have their disobedience beaten out of them 
(the Bible tells them they must, or so they claim), and you've got those 
on the other extreme who have little enough perspective that they think 
you're a child abuser if you once smack your child's bottom lightly, but
most people are in the middle. 

Most people either don't believe in spanking, but consider that some 
limited spanking may not actually be terribly abusive, or believe that 
some spanking is okay, but they don't do it much. All of these people 
can benefit from a discussion of alternatives that work better than 
spanking. This discussion has taught me a number of good discipline 
techniques, that sound not only nicer but also more effective than spanking. 
I think it's been great.

My own opinion is that spanking in itself is not as damaging as *any*
punishment in which children does not understand what exactly they're
supposed to have done wrong--but that logical and natural consequences
sound a lot more effective, and pleasanter, besides. A trip to the fire 
station to learn about what playing with matches can do sounds like a 
great idea, too, much more sensible than applying yet another spanking.

Paula Burch
pburch@bcm.tmc.edu
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: GeraldR@sunfish.ratsys.com (Gerald Ruderman)
Subject: Kids names for food (wqas Cute things they say)
Organization: Rational Systems, Inc.
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 02:38:31 GMT

In article <Nov07.000231.64436@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> ian@candela.ATMOS.ColoState.Edu (Ian Wittmeyer) writes:
>Sean *used" to like broccoli (when he was 2). he called them 
>"trees" before we told him the real word. sound familiar to 
>anyone???

My daughter liked cooked onions since we called them "noodles." When she was 
2 her 3.5 year old cousin told her they weren't noodles, they were onions. 
My daughter stopped eating them immediately and continued to not eat them 
for years.

Gerald Ruderman                                   geraldr@ratsys.com
From: lynn@elan.Elan.COM (Lynn Gazis)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: 20/20 and Spanking
Date: 10 Nov 92 19:34:58 GMT
Reply-To: lynn@elan (Lynn Gazis)
Organization: Elan Computer Group, Inc., Mountain View, CA

In <1992Nov4.173541.12544@cbfsb.cb.att.com>
mdw@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (mark.d.wuest) writes:

>[...] I sincerely believe a lot of people
>who are avidly against spanking at any time are over-reacting.  Kind
>of like reading about a plane crash and refusing to fly.

Some years ago, a friend of mine was killed by a drunk driver,
leaving me with a fear of driving and a fear of drinking.  I overcame
the fear of driving, because I need to drive for a lot of reasons.
I didn't overcome the fear of drinking because - why bother?  I
never liked the taste, I never liked the effect, and I have no
need to drink.

I believe that there is a difference between limited spanking and
abuse.  I believe that I might be able to raise a family perfectly
well with limited spanking.  I am also afraid that if I spanked
I might, in anger, cross the line to abuse.  And why bother to
overcome that fear?  Unlike driving and riding in planes, spanking
isn't something I am likely to *ever* have to do.  Nobody has
offered any evidence that spanking is more effective in any
situation, or that there actually *are* any children who respond
only to spanking (although David Shackelford has asserted this
without offering evidence).  People *have* offered evidence that
methods other than spanking work, even with some very difficult
children.  I can see why I might fall short of my ideals once
I become a parent (and, since I have a lot of ideals, I'm sure
I'll fall short of at least some of them).  But I can't see
why I should plan on using a discipline method I am uncomfortable
with, which is easy to abuse, and which is less logically connected
to misbehavior than other methods.

Lynn Gazis-Sax
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: ljy@cbnews.cb.att.com (linda.j.young)
Subject: Re: 20/20 and Spanking
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 17:19:26 GMT

> | Michael Miller   millerm@oakhill.sps.mot.com       SAID:
> My 'rule of thumb' above used 'defied authority deliberately' I still stand by
> this, but then I need to qualify it better.

Just thought you all would be interested in knowing where the "rule of thumb"
phrase comes from (I just recently found out).  In medieval times some king
made a ruling that you could beat your wife, but the stick could not be
any thicker than the width of your thumb.

Interesting choice of words used I thought, considering the subject....

Linda
From: pc@slipknot.eng.pyramid.com (pc)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Silly Putty and carpeting
Date: 13 Nov 92 17:23:01 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Pyramid Technology
NNTP-Posting-Host: slipknot.eng.pyramid.com

I'm sure someone here must know the answer to this. :-)

Does anyone know a good solvent or something that will remove
silly putty from carpeting?  Please email as I don't ever
have time to read this newsgroup.

pc
-- 
      -m---------    Patrick Connor           Pyramid Technology   
    ---mmm-------    (408) 428-8819           3860 North 1st St.
  -----mmmmm-----    pc@pyramid.com -or-      San Jose, CA           
-------mmmmmmm---    uunet!pyramid!pc         95134
From: ephraim@think.com (Ephraim Vishniac)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: [5y] Funny things they say
Date: 9 Nov 1992 15:42:52 GMT
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: charon.think.com


Like ten million other kids, David got his own copy of _Beauty and the
Beast_ last week. We already had the book, so he was acquainted with
the setting and the plot. Evidently he had very high expectations for
the movie: when Belle first spoke, he exclaimed "But she needs to talk
French! It's a French village!"

(Since he doesn't speak French himself, I have no idea how he expected
to understand the movie.)
-- 
Ephraim Vishniac    ephraim@think.com   ThinkingCorp@applelink.apple.com
 Thinking Machines Corporation / 245 First Street / Cambridge, MA 02142
        One of the flaws in the anarchic bopper society was
        the ease with which such crazed rumors could spread.
Newsgroups: misc.kids