HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cheating@ccvm.sunysb.edu
Subject: Re: IdEAL ORDER Psychic TV Background Info
Originator: cheading@casbah.acns.nwu.edu
Keywords: H760
Organization: Mollusk Infrastructure
Originatory: <ccvm.sunysb.edu>
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 19:09:38 GMT

In article <9208201327.AA05379@dorsai.com> Jeff Harrington <idealord@DORSAI.COM> writes:
>In 1983 he began actively using the effect to wreak havoc in the incipient
>mind of the media/state and thus to create conceptual holes in the
>framework of Amerikkkan conceptual reality.  By concentrating his efforts
>on the evening news, primarily CBS Evening News, he began the process of
>beautiful luminescent chaos as action.  (Just as a sidenote, Hakim Brey
>has stolen practically every idea he ever had from our project and without
>paying tribute (ha ha, yawn...)).

Oh, really?  So, did he change the spelling of his name to make people
think he was original?

Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.fnord-l
Date:         Tue, 18 Aug 1992 10:36:00 EDT
From:         General Mills <LIBALP@EMUVM1.BITNET>
Subject:      re: Steamshovel Press

Kenn Thomas <SKTHOMA@UMSLVMA.BITNET> says:
>If you get any answers, let me know.  You should know about Steamshovel Press,
though.  It's a "conspiracy theory" zine that not's available as a list.  Curre
nt issue has interviews with Kennedy assassination researchers (MArk Lane, Jim
Marrs, Dick Gregory and Kerry Thornley), plus stuff on AIDS and flying saucers.
  Next issue has stuff on Danny Casolaro and INSLAW and an article based on the
 prison file of Wilhelm Reich.  Avaialble for $4 plus $1 postage from 5927 King
sbury, St. Louis, MO 63112.

Kenn, baby, for cryin' out loud!  You never come around anymore just to shoot
the breeze, just to hang out, just to, you know, BE ONE OF THEY GUYS.
Now the only time you come around is to do one of your (bitterly) *plugs*!
You didn't used to be such a big shot, but now you're, you're ...different,
Kenny, you ain't like you used to be; success has changed you, Kenn, it's
changed you, ya hear me?  I know we ain't sophisticated like your show-biz
friends, but we've always been here for ya, ain't we Kenn?  But Kenny, Kenny,
ARE YOU HERE FOR US?  Plug, plug, (sob) plug, . . .Get outta here . .th'pain..
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: FNORD-L@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu
X-VMS-To: IN%"FNORD-L@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu"
X-VMS-Cc: MATMACCONAON
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.fnord-l
Date:         Sat, 15 Aug 1992 14:18:00 GMT
From:         Tetra Hedron <MATMACCONAON@BODKIN.UCG.IE>
Subject:      Re: ri/ros
X-To:         FNORD-L@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu

> So:
> he/she=ri
> his/her(s)=ros

him/her=ri.

Think of it rather as "it"=ri, "its"=ros (at the not-so-small-and-
insignificant ris(que)k of *SERIOUSLY* I-mean-godamnit *SERIOUSLY*
offending some of the [word when used by sausage signifying "people" and
when used by people signifiying "sausage" no I'm not telling you starts
with a 't' though go on go on guess] all of the time, tee-hee, sausages
of the fn(or)d un(b)ite).

> Of course, it awaits approval by Cuthbert.

I grovel in anticipation.

> PeeHead is dead?  Another casualty?  Did this happen on Stony brook?

Lordy, no. At least ... I *don't* think ... it so hahd to wemembeh bahck
thaht fah, y'know, I kin wemembeh wen dis wuz all feeuhlds, y'know dat?

Sorry. I forgot myself (again). Just like PeeHead really. They got him
*good* in the end, only I never saw nothing. Ohnosir.

Petunia is peeved, but says "Ki" all the same.

th (but please, call me t)
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Delivery-Notice:  SMTP MAIL FROM does not correspond to sender.
X-Envelope-to: fnord-l@ubvm.BITNET
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.fnord-l
Date:         Fri, 21 Aug 1992 13:54:21 -0400
From:         "The Caterpillar Cannot Understand The Butterfly"
              <salsbury@ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Whattaya say, bud?
X-To:         LIBALP%EMUVM1.BITNET@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu
              21 Aug 1992 11:00 EDT <9208211619.AA06519@acsu.buffalo.edu>

   Date:         Fri, 21 Aug 1992 11:00 EDT
   From: Arthur Parker <LIBALP%EMUVM1.BITNET@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu>


   I recently posted on FNORD-L
   >Personal stuff: some examples please, Pat, so that the guilty parties Might
   >Know Their Crimes and Desist.
   and this remark was echoed by someone, Robert Holder I believe, but we have
   not received any reply from you.  Come to think of it, you don't seem to
   respond to anything said to you, no matter how relevant or polite.  You
   occasionally voice your disapproval at What's Going On but you don't follow
   up and you offer no further explanation even when asked.  Some of us
   get the impression that you feel you're ABOVE everyone else to the extent
   that you won't condescend to answer or just plain old participate in even
   the "Proper" discussions.  Talking and not listening?  Listening and not
   caring?  Think how you would feel if you were having a conversation and
   someone occasionally threw out Bits of Wisdom and Gems of Criticism but
   wouldn't deign to respond to anything you said (or so it seemed).
   I find it a bit frustrating.

   Hoping I'm Wrong,
   Arthur Parker



Sorry.
        Been really busy, of late, trying to graduate, and haven't had the
time to devote to the list that I'd like to. My appologies to any I've
offended.

Pat

   Patrick G. Salsbury                    State University of NY @ Buffalo, USA
SALSBURY@ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU                       Disclaimers are silly. ;^)

                          "All bound for Mu Mu Land!"
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.fnord-l
Date:         Tue, 18 Aug 1992 23:36:40 PDT
From:         jprovo@GNU.AI.MIT.EDU
Subject:      re: hypocrite anarchist
X-To:         fnord-l@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu

From: MM <mbm@PACSCL.UARC.UPENN.EDU>
>
>of thinking? One of the things I have liked abut fnord--and analytical dis-
>cussion of course breaks the spell, breaks the characters, destroys the
>pure illusions of persona--is that there hasn't really been "a topic."  I
>came onto the list at the time when Salamander's works were unreeling in
>pop-eyed madness. I was curious whether any of his text was computer generated,
bleah - here we definitely see [tip o' the hat to Fossy or whoever] a definite
Old Way of Thinking -- the list had no existance before you showed up, eh then?

bleah - shall I continue with this one...?

>Was it the re-posting of the official nature
>and purpose of fnord that set this off?
please - that happens monthly.

>To me, it feels as though an intrusion of analytic
>thought changes the very atmosphere of the board, where it is often difficult
of course, you weren't around when the babble changed the very atmosphere of
the maillist - twit. Change is, pal. The very fact that you are coherent thru
this letter changed you'd the supposed atmosphere you didn't want to disturb.
take that one and smoke it with yer frop, fan boy.

end of critique
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Organization: Emory University - Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.fnord-l
Date:         Fri, 21 Aug 1992 12:56:09 EDT
From:         LIBWCA@EMUVM1.BITNET
Subject:      ME ME ME

Perhaps I should point out the two recent posts listed as being from
Unknown Origin were actually from me.  Since both posts were flames,
I wouldn't want anyone thinking I'm trying to be anonymous, ner nothing
like that...
Bill Anderson
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL2]
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.fnord-l
Date:         Thu, 20 Aug 1992 09:27:39 EDT
From:         Jeff Harrington <idealord@DORSAI.COM>
Subject:      IdEAL ORDER Psychic TV Background Info
X-To:         future@nyx.cs.du.edu
X-cc:         extropians@gnu.ai.mit.edu, FNORD-L@UBVM.BITNET

The IdEAL ORDER Psychic TV project is an extension of the work of two
artist, Jeff Harrington and Elsie Russell.  Jeff Harrington developed the
ability to "will" light to emanate from a broadcasting television camera
in 1982 while working at an audio/video retail store in NYC and while
engaged in the IdEAL ORDER Grafitti Art project.  As an extension of
his Zen meditative practices he meditates on the image received on an
ordinary TV and light appears inside the lens of the camera which is
facing the newscaster or politician on camera.  This light is bright
enough to cause serious distraction and can be moved at will by him as
an ongoing commentary of the broadcast.

In 1983 he began actively using the effect to wreak havoc in the incipient
mind of the media/state and thus to create conceptual holes in the
framework of Amerikkkan conceptual reality.  By concentrating his efforts
on the evening news, primarily CBS Evening News, he began the process of
beautiful luminescent chaos as action.  (Just as a sidenote, Hakim Brey
has stolen practically every idea he ever had from our project and without
paying tribute (ha ha, yawn...)).

Since 1983 Jeff has "zapped" practically every news person, politician, and
celebrity ;) who has appeared on the tube.  In 1991 in order to prove the
effect to skeptics, he began the Thursday zap of CBS Evening News.
Previously, CBS was being "illuminated" every day of the week.  Now, only
on Thursdays is CBS "illuminated."  This is so that people outside of the
rumor mill surrounding this project can exercise personal skeptical
discernment and verify the effect for themselves.

At present a "cult of secrecy" controls access to information about this
phenomenon.  In the early 1980's NY artists were spreading rumors that we
were religious figures or Napoleonic world dominator wanna-bes.  We are
neither religious nor political.  We are anarchists interested in causing
philisophical, artistic and political chaos.  Spread the virus!!!

Elsie Russell
Jeff Harrington
idealord@dorsai.com
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.fnord-l
Date:         Mon, 17 Aug 1992 13:59:00 EDT
From:         Leicester of Yark <LIBALP@EMUVM1.BITNET>
Subject:      Snivle/Elvis Wedlim/Bedlam

Merciful (Haw Haw Haw) Dickens says, among other things:
>me to take my finger out of my nose just long enough to point out that

also
>bit at the nose:

and
>You Pick Your Nose And Eat It,

Clearly, Something is Up (remainder of joke omitted).
Did you pretend to deny the is-ness of the Salamander?  Yea, that not only
did the body grow a new tail, but also, in addition, that the tail grew
a new body, and that they did infest the carpets of the Leri-L-ites this
weekend?

Scurrilous indeed!

Was the predicate?

alp
From: cheating@CCVM.SUNYSB.EDU (queue cue)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.fnord-l
Subject: Re: FNORD-L & LERI-L
Date: 18 Aug 92 16:55:01 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

OH YEAH, YA LITTLE PUTZ?!? YOU *WISH* IT WERE THAT WAY, YOU AND YOUR
TYPE, "DONTCHA JUST KNOW". WOULD MAKE IT ONE WHOLE HELL OF A LOT EASIER
FOR YOU IF THERE WEREN'T ANY BLOODY PROBLEMS, SO YOU JUST GO RIGHT
AHEAD AND DROP YOUR PLEASANT "HAVE A NICE DAY" SOUND BITES ON THE
UNSUSPECTING PUBLIC WHO GOBBLE IT UP CUZ THEY DON'T KNOW ANY BETTER
AT ALL. YOU JUST KEEP YOUR LERI-L, BOY, THAT'S WHAT YOU CAN DO; JUST
LET IT BE A SAFE HAVEN FOR THE UNSUSPECTING, BUT YOU WON'T FOOL THIS
TOP CAT, NOSIRREE BUCKAROO, AS, ON MY WORD AS A CARTOON AND A GENTLEMAN,
IF I CATCH YOU SPREADING YOUR DISGUSTING FILTH AROUND HERE AGAIN,
I'M A GONNA OPEN A CAN O' WHOOP-ASS ON YOU, BOY.


That one was called, "Mercifull [sic] Lee on Sabbatical".

Thank you and gook night!

M.
From: LIBJRM@EMUVM1.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.fnord-l
Subject: Re: FNORD-L & LERI-L
Date: 18 Aug 92 15:27:00 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

M writes:

>
I'm in complete agreement on this point, assuming you're taking an air of
sarcasm here.  I'm not a member of LERI-L, probably couldn't be if I tried,
and I would hope that those beloved keepers of the flame who started this
group would either try to keep it alive with well reasoned discussion,
active participation, or the occasional gem of late-breaking news, or,
barring that, kill the damn thing.  The idea of a "SECRET list for
initiates" is pretty comical and juvenile, but, sadly, it seems to exist.

I have no intention of flailing the dead horse of this debate; however, I must
point out that to assume LERI-L to be a "secret" list, as M seems to, is
misguided to say the least. If you tried to subscribe, you could. It's an open
list, created by people who had nothing at all to do with FNORD-L. This
"comical and juvenile" idea of a "secret list for initiates" exists only in
the minds of those who would criticize something they don't seem to know
anything about, making their comments roughly as relevant as a nun talking
about sex.

Please don't mistake this for a defense of either list's content. Just thought
I'd try to clear up what seems to be a growing misconception.

Doncha just know it,

JM
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.fnord-l
Date:         Fri, 14 Aug 1992 18:19:47 EDT
From:         Robert Holder <robert@WHIPLASH.ER.USGS.GOV>
Subject:      Re: Salamander
X-To:         FNORD-L@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu

> Can you successfully (and sincerely) advocate anarchy without behaving in
> an anarchic manner?


...sorry to keep yakking but I'm waiting on the tape drive and the idleness
is killing me.

It sounds like you are asking whether a person can be a sincere hypocrit
(correct me if I'm wrong) and I am NOT partisan in the Extropian discussion.
A hypocrit is somebody whose words and actions are inconsistent with each
other.  I imagine this is also true for psychotics and con-artists. But the
"sincerely" qualifier in your question rules out the con-artists.

So if I understand your question, my answer is "Yes, if they are hypocrits
or psychotic".  Maybe hypocrit is not the right word here, but I believe
that people are quite capable of sincerely advocating things which they
do not naturally do themselves.  Look at Hitler and Himmler; each one only
saw concentration camp victims *once* and Hitler got pale and quesy and
Himmler almost passed out!  Yet they were the architects of those systems.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~robert holder~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~       unix beast wrassler  us geological survey        ~
~ robert@whiplash.er.usgs.gov  st petersburg florida usa ~
~ FREEDOM HAS ALWAYS BEEN AN EXPENSIVE THING dr m l king ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~namaste~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Return-Path: <mbm@pacscl.uarc.upenn.edu>
Posted-Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 00:59:46 EDT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.fnord-l
Date:         Thu, 13 Aug 1992 00:59:46 EDT
From:         MM <mbm@PACSCL.UARC.UPENN.EDU>
Subject:      broken spells

Sue Sugarhouse.

in her longest mother's hose

bespoke a hornet's nest

to a lackluster, microform midinette.


Lackluster grids of analytical desuetude, or


The monkeybutt flashed in the London Zoo (quondam)


Thanks again for all the words I learned in school.


Thanks for blending in with the ghouls.


Thanks for unrolling me like a number of spools,

into that harlot's garden.



Born again.  Shot out of that lake of fire into arms of glory.

Scratched his behind against a heavenly lyre, to end our story.




Deedee
Return-Path: <mbm@pacscl.uarc.upenn.edu>
Posted-Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 13:39:12 EDT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.fnord-l
Date:         Wed, 19 Aug 1992 13:39:12 EDT
From:         MM <mbm@PACSCL.UARC.UPENN.EDU>
Subject:      meme

What is a meme?


Is RONALD REAGAN IS IN HEAVEN a meme?
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.fnord-l
Date:         Thu, 20 Aug 1992 11:03:01 EDT
From:         Robert Holder <robert@WHIPLASH.ER.USGS.GOV>
Subject:      Re: pigshit
X-To:         FNORD-L@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu

> From: MM <mbm@PACSCL.UARC.UPENN.EDU>
> 	"All those who have vantage points in their spirit, I mean, on some
> side or other of their heads and in a few strictly localized brain areas;
> all those who are masters of their language; all those for whom words have
etc.

I'm trying to understand (or should I just let it wash over me directly
into my subconcious? ....nah) are you blasting academic/intellectual
elitists?  The western rational religon?  Please elaborate for us fucking
new guys...persons...experientially-challanged accursed new-persons...

my GOD I hate the 90's!  maybe it's all just a snivelling, cowardly
incompetent brain-damaged dream...

also, the intro sez RAW, Leary, etc.  how do the people on this
list feel about Ram Dass?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~robert holder~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~       assistant unix troll   us geological survey      ~
~ robert@whiplash.er.usgs.gov  st petersburg florida usa ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~VISUALIZE JERRY GARCIA'S GUT~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Return-Path: <mbm@pacscl.uarc.upenn.edu>
Posted-Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 20:00:54 EDT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.fnord-l
Date:         Thu, 13 Aug 1992 20:00:54 EDT
From:         MM <mbm@PACSCL.UARC.UPENN.EDU>
Subject:      Me me messages

Me too. No, actually, although this isn't the place for serious discussion, I
don't ask much, but I keep seeing   MEME or MEME STRUCTURE.  In school I
learned about SEMES. This is new. I am a busy, intelligent person just like
you. Please be so considerate as to apprise me of this phomeme. Grout.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.fnord-l
Date:         Wed, 19 Aug 1992 09:13:28 EDT
From:         Robert Holder <robert@WHIPLASH.ER.USGS.GOV>
Subject:      this letter is a notice of collection
X-To:         FNORD-L@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu

high speed screws in the water
bearing one one five range two thousand yards
blow ballast blow safety blow negative
when you hear the tone in your right ear
raise your right hand
when you hear the tone in your left ear
raise your left hand
when you hear the tone in your head
raise the syringe to your jugular vein
insert the needle and depress the plunger
extract, rinse and repeat
you are not to sleep, smoke or talk
all employees must wash hands
before leaving the breakroom
there will be no questions
until the exit light is turned on
you have five days to file a petition
with the clerk of the circuit court
if you have not filed your petition
within five days
a warrant will be issued for your arrest
any noncompliance with instructions
issued to you by the arresting officer
will be interpreted as resisting arrest
this letter is a notice of collection
our agency has been contacted by citibank
visa regarding your unpaid balance on your
account in the amount of $17.42
if this balance is not paid
within seven days
a report of non-payment of loan will
be entered in your credit record
please watch your head
and hold the handrail
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Return-Path: <mbm@pacscl.uarc.upenn.edu>
Posted-Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 14:07:33 EDT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.fnord-l
Date:         Wed, 19 Aug 1992 14:07:33 EDT
From:         MM <mbm@PACSCL.UARC.UPENN.EDU>
Subject:      hypocrite

Did j.provo just do that for fun. I coldn't tell. J., you seem so pleased with
yourself that you find a little contradiction of analytic thought, as though
I would not be aware of anything that elementary. Sort of pathetic, in light
of the OLD THINKING crime of mine. Stay on ground where you don't get dizzy,
so you don't look so stupid, is my advice. Further, you come across like a
member of a closed and vicious neighborhood. A newcomer isn't allowed to
speak until he's been around for years. That's so fucking old it's hard to
measure. Look into the smart drugs. mbm


Mighty MBM, I should say.
From: jprovo@GNU.AI.MIT.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.fnord-l
Subject: mbm
Date: 20 Aug 92 03:18:08 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-To:         fnord-l@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu

No, a newcomer -as you term yourself- may speak anytime, I wouldn't want it
otherwise...but keep in mind that Things As You Found Them are not nesc. Things
As They Were, Things As They Started or Things As They Will Be.

If it weren't for the fun of it, I'd have killed myself a long time ago.

Contra-diction, maladiction.  I have always engaged in 'model agnosticism' [tho
I've alwaqys just called it a form of relativism]; any seeming contradictions
are just distorted mirror images of a pupil staring at itself, a bouncing baby
bowling ball.

Actually, if anyone has a _real_ source of supposed smart drugs [hell, even the
false ones (most ---> all may be that) that are just jazzed-up amphetamines] inb
the Boston-ish area, lemme know....

joe, whop hates trying to ram a vt-term emulation down the throat of an
ansi device....
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.fnord-l
Date:         Fri, 21 Aug 1992 10:35:13 EDT
From:         Robert Holder <robert@WHIPLASH.ER.USGS.GOV>
Subject:      Re: robert [re: brain areas]
X-To:         FNORD-L@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu

ah, heat!  well, I never said I wasn't full of shit,
and now you have kindly pointed that out for me.

the attack on .gov was a cheap shot, but generally true
even (lately especially) in my case.

all lessons are painful, many of my teachers end up playing
the role of enemy.  hollywood (america?) doesn't like that
but it's a fact of life.

also, I change my mind a lot.  I know I'm not alone there.
I know it's ok for me to do that, being an organism.
so if you see contradictions in me, it MAY be that you
are seeing my growth.  So strange I should defend foss to
the straights and then come here and get blasted by the
deviants.  and go ahead call me a namedropper...

so stupid mail is a waste of users time.  well what do you
do about all the stupid users like me?  you think I'm the
enemy? maybe.  I came to fnord to see new ideas.  I sent
my general attack to stir things up, I thought that would
be appropriate here in the new idea area.  Obviously it
has pissed you off (probably others too).  Most learning is
painful.  and I ain't going away.  if you want to filter
me out, that's my loss, and I would regret it: you are the
one (one of the ones?)  I came here to reach.  Out of place
in the electronic age, you are somebody who believes in
something.

if everybody wants me to fuck off, I'll shut up.  I guess if
I don't fit in here (either) then you can all kick me out.
believe me this wouldn't be the first time.  then I can play
the martyr, won't that be fun!

disagreement is the source of learning.  you think I'm a
"stonehead" (dry empiric geologist)?  It's not true.  I believe
productive discourse stands on it's own, not needing emotional
support.

incidentally, I do respect leary and all the other fringe
thinkers of our culture.  but are they the leaders today?  so
far, lacking a clear leader, I have chosen to stand alone.
Where do the people on this list want to go?  that will affect
the path we all chose to follow, as members of the list.

FINALLY, jprovo, I WAS ATTACKED FIRST (ugliest on the list etc.)
and I responded.  more flames, I'm sorry jprovo, that is not
what I meant to start here.  But I'm not going to lay down and
die!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~robert holder~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~       assistant unix troll   us geological survey      ~
~ robert@whiplash.er.usgs.gov  st petersburg florida usa ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~VISUALIZE MOSH~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.fnord-l