HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gt7237a@prism.gatech.EDU (Matt Le Blanc)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm
Subject: Hangup problems
Date: 17 Aug 92 03:17:35 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

Does anyone know why my modem hangs up when I try to download *.txt
files and *.shar files.  It might happen with other files also, but my
modem doesn't hang up when I download *.hqx files.  I am using Zterm .9
and receiving via Zmodem.  My connection also gets hung up whenever I do
a 'ls' and there is a long list.  By long list, I mean at least two
screen fulls.  Thanks for any responses.  
					Matt Le Blanc
From: Rick_McCormack@mindlink.bc.ca (Rick McCormack)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm
Subject: Abaton Interfax on Localtalk??
Date: 13 Aug 92 21:21:30 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

Anyone using the Abaton Interfax with the included software for sharing the fax
on a localtalk net (FaxShare? ShareFax?) who would care to comment on its
usefullness?  I need to know if the software allows all users on the network to
use the fax AND also to use the modem (not at the same time obviously). I had
planned on using the Global village unit with Hayes connect, but that only
allows the MODEM to be networked, NOT the fax.

Any other solutions to this would also be worth hearing about. I will summarize
to the net if it looks like any one else is interested in this workgroup
problem.

Thanks for any input.

Rick McCormack

--
 _________________________________________________________
| IMAGISTICS Business Theatre Technology | Rick McCormack |
|  Interactive   Effective   Compelling  | Vancouver,  BC |
|________________________________________|________________|
|  UseNet: Rick_McCormack@mindlink.uucp  |  A O-L: Rique  |
|_________________________________________________________|
.
From: A.L.Radtke@bradford.ac.uk (Drew Radtke)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm
Subject: Program to beep on mac when popmail arrives over unix needed
Date: 18 Aug 92 22:51:26 GMT
Organization: University of Bradford, UK
Originator: s3535@muser

I would like to know if anyone knows of a program which will make my Mac
beep (or some other attention grabbing device) when I get mail sent to
my unix account via popmail.

I've got software to read the mail, I just want something that will run
in the background and poll my mailbox every so often.

Shareware would be nice, obviously.

I've a Mac II ethernetted to a sun system which reads mail using pop 3
very well.

Thanks for any help!
-- 
Drew Radtke * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * A.L.Radtke@bradford.ac.uk
* * * * * * * * Fax: +44 274 305340 * Voice: +44 274 383180 * * * * * * * *
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm
From: berry@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (Joel R. Berry)
Subject: NCSA Telnet Costom.
Keywords: function key support
Organization: Arizona State University
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 22:49:59 GMT

I am currently using NCSA Telnet for the Macintosh and I need full
function key support.  I am using version 2.5 and have tried to use
the resedit program to edit the KCHAR but function keys are not
settable as far as I can tell.  Actually I could may be using it wrong
because I could not find any docs on remapping keys.  I am using  a
Progress database program over the network and need terminal emulators
for the mac and NCSA has been the best bet I could find.   If anybody
knows of a program for the mac (or PC for that Mater ) that will enable
the mac to emulate a terminal (preferrably a wyse 50 or 60 ) with all
of the function keys mapped.  As far as I can tell the function keys
are not mapped at all.  Please reply via mail.  Thanks
Joel Berry
--

-----------------------------------------------------------
Joel Berry | berry@enuxha.eas.asu.edu
-----------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm
From: djh@cs.mu.OZ.AU (David Hornsby)
Subject: Re: Forcing CAP to do CR/LF translation on writes
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 14:07:16 GMT

simon@mmpe.mineral.ualberta.ca (Simon Tortike) writes:
>Unfortunately, CAP is not translating the CRs back to LFs (or is it CR
>LF?) when the file is saved back to disk ... is there any way to force
>CAP to do the translation when writing?

CAP patch 102 adds the ability to define a UNIX filename suffix to Mac
creator and type mapping and the translation method to be used. The code
is included by defining USR_FILE_TYPES in m4.features at Configure time.

The mapping may be global or per user. An example file would be ...

# The available forms of translation are
#	Ascii, map LF to CR and vice versa
#	Text, map Mac quotes to UNIX quotes (not vice-versa, implies Ascii)
#	Raw, no translation
#
# EXTN	XLate	CREAT	TYPE	Comment
#
.c	Ascii	'MPS '	'TEXT'	"This is a UNIX C source file."
.hqx	Ascii	'BnHq'	'TEXT'	"This is a UNIX BinHex file."
.gif	Raw     'JRVL'  'GIFf'  "This is a UNIX GIF file."
*	Ascii	'unix'	'TEXT'	"This is a UNIX created file."


Double clicking on UNIX C source files opens the MPW Editor, BinHex 4.0
for *.hqx files, a GIF Application for *.gif (with no translation) and
everything else (*) has the default CAP gothic U icon. Anything with an
'Ascii' translation can be opened by UNIX or Mac based editors with the
desired behaviour. The mapping file is only used on files that start off
as UNIX files, ie: have no .finderinfo and .resource components. See the
file cap60/extras/afpfile for other sample mappings.

 - David.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm
From: ferch@ucs.ubc.ca (Les Ferch)
Subject: No LocalTalk icon in MacTCP
Keywords: MacTCP
Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 06:35:54 GMT

OK, this is WIERD!

I have both a LocalTalk and Ethernet connection on my Mac. Everything has
worked fine until yesterday when the LocalTalk icon dissapeared from my
MacTCP control panel. Software problem I figured, but NO, it is most
definitely NOT, I REPEAT NOT, a software problem.

I can switch back and forth between LocalTalk and EtherTalk in the Network
control panel and see all zones, printers, and servers with either
connection. When I have EtherTalk selected, I get EtherTalk and Ethernet
choices in MacTCP. When I have LocalTalk selected in Network, I just get
Ethernet as the choice in MacTCP.

I checked another Mac that has both a LocalTalk and Ethernet connection.
No problem there, LocalTalk shows up just fine in MacTCP when LocalTalk is
selected in Network.

I took my ethernet card out (thinking that MacTCP is being clever and
using the Ethernet card always because it's there) but then I got no icon
at all in MacTCP!

I tried my System Folder (it's on an external hard drive) on two other
Macs and no problem there, LocalTalk shows up just fine in MacTCP. This
really confirms that my software is just fine.

I suspected my LocalTalk connection (even though AppleTalk works just fine)
and take my computer to another office - no LocalTalk icon in MacTCP.

Therefore, I conclude that my Mac IIci has a very subtle hardware problem
that only affects MacTCP LocalTalk connections. I called Apple technical
support in Toronto - this was a new one on them - they suggested replacing
my System Software - obviously not the solution!

Anyone else ever see this problem?
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm
From: leonardr@ccs.itd.umich.edu
Subject: Re: Hardware Handshaking with CTB
Originator: leonardr@diddley.ccs.itd.umich.edu
Organization: Campus Computing Sites, University of Michigan-Ann Arbor
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 16:48:14 GMT

In article <YeXGeM000k009Z5EoM@transarc.com> Barry_Wolman@transarc.com writes:
>The Apple Modem Tool in the CTB doesn't support hardware handshaking, which
>is needed to take full advantage of high speed modems.  The two supported
>choices are xon/xoff and none.  I'm currently using none;  I'm pretty sure
>that sooner or later I'll start seeing buffer overruns.  Does anyone know
>if hardware handshaking will be supported in a future release of the Modem
>Tool?
>
	Version 1.1 (and later) of the Apple Modem Tool support Hardware
Handshaking and can be found on your choice of FTP suite.

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Leonard Rosenthol		  Internet: leonardr@ccs.itd.umich.edu
Director of Advanced Technology   AppleLink: MACgician
Aladdin Systems, inc.		  GEnie:     MACgician
From: u_banzai@mcl.ucsb.edu (Marc Tamsky)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm
Subject: Is there a MacTCP based Archie client?
Date: 21 Aug 92 08:38:31 GMT
Organization: Banzai Institute For Strageic Information and Biomedical Engineering
NNTP-Posting-Host: dial-slip43.ucsd.edu
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1.1d7
X-XXMessage-ID: <A6B9F97D28040B2B@dial-slip43.ucsd.edu>
X-XXDate: Fri, 21 Aug 92 01:38:05 GMT

I am looking for a Mac based archie program that will allow me to query
archie servers.

I thought one existed, but after searching the major ftp
sites and many mirrors of the smaller ones, I haven't found it.

I have also searched the archie ftp sites for client software.

----------
u_banzai@mcl.ucsb.edu    	       	KB6JWE				Marc Tamsky

In New Salem, ND stands the worlds largest Holstein Cow.
12000#, 38' H, 50' L.....	it's fiberglass!
From: A.L.Radtke@bradford.ac.uk (Drew Radtke)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm
Subject: Re: Program to beep on mac when popmail arrives over unix needed
Date: 19 Aug 92 11:50:26 GMT
Organization: University of Bradford, UK
Originator: s3535@mail

A.L.Radtke@bradford.ac.uk (Drew Radtke) writes:
>I would like to know if anyone knows of a program which will make my Mac
>beep (or some other attention grabbing device) when I get mail sent to
>my unix account via popmail.
>
>I've got software to read the mail, I just want something that will run
>in the background and poll my mailbox every so often.
>
>Shareware would be nice, obviously.

Thanks to *everyone* who said I ought to use Eudora; I got it and it
does work and it's excellent! I've had too numerous replies to
acknowledge them all!
-- 
Drew Radtke * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * A.L.Radtke@bradford.ac.uk
* * * * * * * * Fax: +44 274 305340 * Voice: +44 274 383180 * * * * * * * *
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm
From: kdb@intercon.com (Kurt D Baumann)
Subject: Re: Sun to Mac connection
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 21:18:22 GMT
Reply-To: kdb@intercon.com (Kurt D Baumann)
Organization: InterCon Systems Corporation

In article <1992Aug11.194505.4240@news.acns.nwu.edu>, 
barryc@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Barry Chiu) writes:
> What "free" is out there to let my fiends Mac connect directly to a lone Sun
> for file transfers?

Might I suggest a Exorcism first.

Hm, try NCSA telnet, Nuntius, and Eudora.  Those are some good TCP/IP 
packages that will allow connectivity to a SUN.


Kurt Baumann                  Creators of fine TCP/IP Products
InterCon Systems
From: iscjcw@uccvma.ucop.edu (Jerry Wilcox)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm
Subject: Re: Eudora Return Address format question
Followup-To: comp.sys.mac.comm
Date: 21 Aug 1992 15:49:51 GMT
Organization: University of California, Office of the President
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: ajax.ucop.edu

In article <1992Aug20.220522.10404@midway.uchicago.edu>,
ogil@quads.uchicago.edu (Brian W. Ogilvie) wrote:
> Does anyone know whether it's possible to make Eudora accept the
> "fullname <user@host>" return address format?  If not, it's my
> candidate for new feature (Steve Dorner is already a candidate for
> Macintosh Saint).
> 
> Thanks much (and even more if you have a solution).
> -- 
> Brian W. Ogilvie           DISCLAIMER: You think I have time to
> b-ogilvie@uchicago.edu       think about everything I post?

I use Eudora and have mmy return address set to 

     Jerry Wilcox <iscjcw@uccvma.ucop.edu>

and have no problems at all. In fact, all of here who are using Eudora have
our addresses set up that way.

-----------
Jerry Wilcox - iscjcw@uccvma.ucop.edu
All opinions expressed are MINE -- I'd have a different job if the
University wanted me to speak for it.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm,alt.internet.access.watnted,news.newusers.questions,
From: Jack.Carbaugh@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Jack Carbaugh)
Subject: Access to the Internet in SC + questions
Keywords: mac,internet,access
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 12:31:38 GMT

1.  Please forgive if posted incorrectly
2.  I am trying to find a way to access the internet from my HOME. I have a
    Macintosh SE w/4 MB Ram and a 2400 BD modem.  I live in Myrtle Beach,
    South Carolina.  I would like a dial in number as I'm not directly
    connected to an ethernet net w/ internet access.
3.  I would like FTP and news access.
4.  I would like any information on programs such as FTP, Telnet, etc which
    would help me do FTP with a near mac interface using the modem

Currently, I am using MacNet (or Net Mac)/KA9Q for FTP access. Unfortunately,
I must call long distance to use it.

If anyone is out there from SC who could recommend/direct me to a host
system in SC I would be very elated!

I used to access the internet from the U of Pgh's mainframes, but I'm not
living there now, and am not a student therefore I don't have an account.

I would even consider a commercial source providing that it's cost isn't too
prohibitive ;)

Thanks, in advance!!

jack carbaugh

jack.carbaugh@bbs.oit.unc.edu



--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm
From: dauter@terminator.cc.umich.edu (Michael Dautermann)
Subject: Re: updating WK --> 11.14?
Followup-To: comp.sys.mac.comm
Summary: get your whiteknight updating stuff on mac.archive!
Keywords: white, knight, archive, mac, pd, excellent
Organization: We're from the government, ma'am
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 08:58:58 GMT
Expires: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 04:00:00 GMT

In article <19920817004621IYI4DTN@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU> IYI4DTN@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (Gann Matsuda) writes:
>In article <16AUG199217154876@jetson.uh.edu>, on 16 Aug 92 22:15:00 GMT,
>hcls7@jetson.uh.edu (Marino, Nancy F.) writes:
>
>>
>>I am using White Knight v. 11.12. I downloaded the updates to 11.13 and 11.14
>>from [censored], but when I un-binhex them and decompress them, they seem to be just
>>inert files: that is, I can't figure out what to do with them next. Is there a
>>program I need, for which these files are scripts? Or what gives?
>>
>You also need to get the POP Updater application.  The file(s) you
>downloaded contain the update, but they require the POP application
>to do you any good.  You should be able to find the updater on [censored].

Nsncy is looking for "pupdecryptor", which can be found on our excellent
mac.archive site...

Looking in >>>> mac.archive.umich.edu <<<<, in the 
mac/misc/update directory, you can find these things...

$ls whi* pup*
pupdecryptor2.0.cpt.hqx         whitek11.10updater.cpt.hqx
whitek11.05updater.cpt.hqx      whitek11.11updater.cpt.hqx
whitek11.06updater.cpt.hqx      whitek11.12updater.cpt.hqx
whitek11.07updater.cpt.hqx      whitek11.13updater.sit.hqx
whitek11.08updater.cpt.hqx      whitek11.14updater.cpt.hqx 
   
you can get on our frequent ftp'er mailing list (to which I mail
lists of new files added to mac.archive) by dropping me a note
at "mac-recent-request@mac.archive.umich.edu".....

our index is available for ftp'ing in the /mac/00help directory
as "index.txt"....

hope this helps....



-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------
dauter@terminator.cc.umich.edu = usermyke@umichum.bitnet = myke@umich.edu
mike@mac.archive.umich.edu = that's MISTER archive to you... 
Michael Dautermann - U-M Ann Arbor, Dearborn and, soon.. your world!
Xref: sparky comp.sys.mac.comm:7877 comp.sys.mac.misc:14759
From: df2tg2n@ties.bell-atl.com (Steve Rosen)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm,comp.sys.mac.misc
Subject: Need a little info on UUPC 3.0 for Mac
Date: 13 Aug 92 13:28:46 GMT
Reply-To: df2tg2n@shoes.bell-atl.com
Organization: Bell Atlantic - Phila, PA


Can somebody summarize the use of UUPC on the Mac?  Here are a few
questions I have concerning running under Sys 7.

(1) Can UUPC run in background?

(2) How hard is it to setup and admin?

(3) Is 3.0 the latest version?

(4) Can I receive news, send mail, send files, other?

Thanks in advance! I need a brief background before I invest the time and
effort to set it up.

-- 
 --=========================================================================--
   Steven M. Rosen / Consultant @ Bell Atlantic - SW Engr. Tech. & Standards
                                  1717 Arch Street (6S2), Phila., PA 19103
   Phone Numbers: W (215)466-2061, FAX (215)563-0517, H (215)465-5334
               +++ Internet/E-Mail: df2tg2n@shoes.bell-atl.com +++
 --=========================================================================--
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm
From: alanr@liszt.media-lab.media.mit.edu (Alan Ruttenberg)
Subject: remote access "not installed"
Organization: MIT Media Laboratory Music and Cognition Group
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 06:55:53 GMT

In article <1992Aug22.203952.12282@midway.uchicago.edu> choi@gsbsrc.uchicago.edu (Dongseok Choi) writes:

   From: choi@gsbsrc.uchicago.edu (Dongseok Choi)
   Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 20:39:52 GMT

   Hello, netters!
    I recently got a powerbook 100. Appletalk Remote Access came with it.
    So, I tried to install it on MacIIsi and powerbook 100. 
    Installer said installation was successful. So reboot the machine,
    and I opened 'Remote Access' then I got

    '.. Installation is not proper (or extension off)....'

Did you try turning on appletalk? To do this, go to the chooser and click the
appletalk "on" button, then restart.


-alan
From: davidj@byron.u.washington.edu (David Jardine)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm
Subject: Appleshare for application sharing?
Date: 21 Aug 92 16:14:50 GMT
Reply-To: davidj@u.washington.edu
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

Hello, everyone:

How fast is Appleshare for sharing of applications instead of files?

We are thinking of installing an Appleshare network for the purpose of 
sharing APPLICATIONS, not FILES. Our reason for considering Appleshare for 
application sharing is that we have several applications which are used 
infrequently by most of the members of our department. Each individual 
needs these applications only 5 or 6 times per year. If we can make these 
applications available over an Appleshare network, we could cut down on 
illegal copying of these applications while still permitting each user to 
work in his or her own office. I suspect that not more than 3 people would 
run applications from the server at the same time (i.e. one person might 
run PageMaker while another ran StatView).

If we do this, we would upgrade to Ethernet in order to speed up the 
communication between the server and the nodes. Our network has 25 Macs. 
Approximately 10 of these are Mac Pluses or Mac Classics, so we would have 
to use an external Ethernet SCSI device for these computers. The other 
computers are LCs or better. We would use a Mac II as the Appleshare 
server (after we installed a large, fast hard disk).

Will this situation work? Will the applications run extraordinarily 
slowly, or will they run fast enough that the less sophisticated users 
will think that the applications are running on their personal computer 
rather than the server?

David Jardine (davidj@u.washington.edu)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm
From: bevis@ais.org (Jeremy Lechtzin)
Subject: Re: No LocalTalk icon in MacTCP
Organization: the ptolemaic terrascope
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 18:40:11 GMT

I've also had this problem - on a system exclusively run on SLIP.  As I have
no appletalk connection, it hadn't really mattered, but it was puzzling.  I
think the problem in my case was caused by MacTCP applications crashing.
Getting a new system file usually fixes the problem for me, but not always.
In any case, this isn't a problem that's going to keep me awake at night.
Oh, BTW: I tried zapping pram, but that didn't fix anything.  Getting a new
system file seems to be a better solution.

From: Charlie.Mingo@p4218.f70.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Charlie Mingo)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm
Subject: MacProducts Magic FAX/MODEM [Q]
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 00:06:12 -0500

erf@progress.COM (Eric Feigenson) writes:

  > Does anyone have any experience with the 14.4KB MacProducts FAX/Modem
  > which has been advertised recently in MacUser?  It's incredibly
  > inexpensive (less than $300) for the speed of 14.4KB for both Modem
  > and FAX.  Any comments from the collective Net Consciousness?
  > 
  > Any other info on FAX/Modems in the 9600-14400 Baud range would also
  > be welcome.

   It's actually a pretty typical price.  There's a whole new generation
of v.32bis/fax modems available for under $300 now, all based on the 
Rockwell chipset.  Zoom and Supra make comparable priced offerings.


Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm
From: tim@maths.tcd.ie (Timothy Murphy)
Subject: Kermit -- latest version?
Summary: What is the latest version of Kermit?
Keywords: kermit Macintosh computer communication
Organization: Dept. of Maths, Trinity College, Dublin, Ireland.
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 15:21:40 GMT

Could some please tell me what is the latest version of MacKermit?
I have v98, but was mention of v99.
I looked in Columbia, but couldn't find it.

I sometimes have a problem with getting files in MacBinary mode
with MacKermit -- there is a complaint
that the resource fork is the wrong length.
Usually, but not always, the application works in spite of this.

Is this a known bug? 
And if so is it corrected in v99?
(Or am I doing something wrong?)

The problem arises most often in my case
when retrieving .sit files.


-- 
Timothy Murphy  
e-mail: tim@maths.tcd.ie
tel: +353-1-2842366
s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm
From: schwager@cs.uiuc.edu (Mike Schwager)
Subject: Mac X number pad problems with vi and gnuemacs
Summary: This is weird
Keywords: Mac X
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 16:30:14 GMT

Greetings,
I'm having trouble with MacX.  If I have an xterm and type on the number
keys in sequence at a shell prompt, I get:
     123456789
like one would expect.  However, if I now fire up vi and type on the number
keys, I get something like this:

q
r
s
... (etc)
It looks like it's sending a <cr> and a letter.  If I fire up gnuemacs, I
get a beep and the same letter.  I think it's sending an <esc><cr> and
letter, or something equally unsavory.  However, if I do
     setenv DISPLAY mymac.cs.uiuc.edu:0
and then run gnuemacs, it brings up its own window and properly accepts the
number pad entries.

Can anyone explain this behavior?  Better yet, tell me how to fix it?  We
need this because actually the problem also manifests itself in our UNIX
database program, and there's a lot of number entry that needs to be done.
-Mike

Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm,comp.sys.novell
From: billv@gizmo.westford.ccur.com (Bill Verry)
Subject: Novell to Mac (LocalTalk) Printing
Reply-To: billv@gizmo.westford.ccur.com (Bill Verry)
Organization: Concurrent Computer Corp. Westford MA.
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 15:54:10 GMT

I'm not sure exactly from which group I'd get the best assistance
so I've cross-posted due to curiousity.

I've got a Novell 3.11 network with DL2000's in the servers and
would like to have the capability for my Novelle users to print
directly to Mac LaserWriters. Can do? If so. How? 

Please e-mail me with any suggestions or comments.

Thank you very much,
BV
--
Bill Verry (billv@westford.ccur.com)| "When I do something
Concurrent Computer Corp.           |  right nobody remembers,
Westford, Ma. 01886                 | When I do something
(508) 392-2464 FAX (508) 392-2343   |  wrong nobody forgets"