HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: fls@econ.duke.edu (Forrest Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: The Trap
Date: 21 Jan 93 15:57:57 GMT
Organization: Duke University; Durham, N.C.


	Where are the posts about THE game last night?

	In the second half, a Virginia player made the mistake of picking the
ball up in the corner (I think it might have been Jeffries, but I couldn't see
him :-) ).  He got surrounded by Montross and Lynch.  He COMPLETELY DISAPPEARED.
It was in my estimation the archetypal trap.  That play should be shown to 
every basketball player in the game (especially those about to play UNC).

	By the way . . . the game did not prove that UVa should not be in the
Top 10.  It just showed that, when they play well, UNC is VERY GOOD.

-- 
   __  __                                     
  |__ |__                             %  
  | |  __|  fls@keynes.econ.duke.edu  %  See what the bears in the
    |__                               %  back room will have.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: ash@ulysses.mr.ams.com (Alan Harder)
Subject: Re: UVA beats Duke @ Cameron!!!!(Re: Duke Wins Doubleheader Game 1, 65-56)
Organization: American Math. Society
	<1993Jan18.134047.8409@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 17:52:00 GMT

In article <1993Jan18.134047.8409@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> rwd4f@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Rob Dobson) writes:

   >(summary of win over creampuff big 10 team deleted)

You forgot the smileies, son.  And, by the way, that's *Mr.* creampuff
big 10 team, to you.

(Summary of win over creampuff ACC team deleted) ;^)  <- See how it's done?

   >Regardless, UVa has now put themselves in real good position to go
   >to the big dance; with 15 games left the Hoos just have to go a modest
   >9-6 to make the big 20, and could probably make the NCAAs with 18....

And lose to a creampuff big 10 team.

   >-rob



-Alan Harder                
 Go Blue!                   

 My opinions are not the opinions of the American Mathematical Society.
 Did you think they were?

Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: creasman@cheshire.oxy.edu (Scott Michael Creasman)
Subject: Re: The Biggest Upset of the Decade?
Organization: Occidental College, Los Angeles, CA 90041 USA.
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 04:50:53 GMT

In article <1k2ekvINN6kf@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> as232@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael Lerner) writes:
>
>Kansas was blown out by Long Beach State.  Is this the biggest upset of the
>decade?
>

Probably not.  Long Beach State is a better team than anyone
gives them credit for.

>Georgia Tech and Charleston was big, but GT was not ranked #1.
>

Even that wasn't all that big a deal.  Has Georgia Tech won a
game since then?

>However, Long Beach State defeated UNLV at home earlier this season.  It's a
>good team, and they were at the bottom of the Top 25 earlier this year (Slipped
>out about 3 or 4 weeks ago).
>

They were in the Top 25 last week I believe, at least on the AP Poll.  They
fell out after losing to a couple of conference opponents.  They have a
lot of potential, but really aren't very consistant.  They beat UNLV one
week, and then followed by losing to Fresno St. or Pacific or somebody
equally as bad. 

>Still, Kansas was ranked #1, and at home.  This has to be one of the biggest
>chokes I can remember.
>

Choke? 

>Why did Kansas lose?  They failed to respect their opponent.  When you fail
>to respect your opponent, you deserve to get beat.

Maybe, but you should not take any credit from Long Beach St.  They aren't
a bad team, and should easily qualify for the NCAA Tournament. 

Scott

Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: saunders@luther.che.wisc.edu (Brian E. Saunders)
Subject: Re: Wisconsin beats Michigan State!
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Madison
Date: 25 Jan 93 13:55:21 CST

In article <1993Jan25.081753.28381@hemlock.cray.com> jeffy@cray.com (Jeffrey Neau) writes:
>
>It would be good to see Wisconsin make the tourney this year.  When's the
>last time (ever?)

Wisconsin won the NCAA in 1941.  I don't think they've made it since then,
but it is hard to say.  They probably should have gone in 1989, but they
really blew some games that they could have won.  Still, at 17-11 with many
upset wins at home, you'd think they would have gotten in.  A lousy road
record and dual losses to a losing Purdue team probably did them in,
though.

I seriously doubt they get in the NCAA's.  Michigan destroyed Bucky up
here, and IU will probably do the same.  Plus, teams like Purdue and
Michigan State could start playing well again, and get a V in the
Fieldhouse.  Still, a 6 or 7-win conference record looks very attainable
right now, and 7 wins will put them at 14-13 for the season, enough to get
them in the NIT.  They'd have to go 10-8 to get in the Big Dance, and I
really don't see that happenning.

>Anything can happen in the Big 10 this year.  About the only sure thing is
>Indiana will win.  Other than that, who knows?

No kidding.  On any given night, the "middle seven" teams could beat each
other, and possibly even get an upset against the "big two".  Plus, I can
see Penn State pulling an upset in the barn sometime this year.
-- 

Brian E. Saunders			saunders@luther.che.wisc.edu
From: dah@cveng121.veheng.det (Dewane A. Hall)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: MOREHOUSE COLLEGE
Date: 26 Jan 93 15:52:23 GMT
Reply-To: dah@cveng121.veheng.det
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.


Post Morehouse College (SIAC) basketball 
schedule and player roster.

-----------------------------------------
From the workstation of a MOREHOUSE MAN

If you don't know, you better ask somebody.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: greg@duke.cs.unlv.edu (Greg Wohletz)
Subject: Re: 3 POINT SHOOTERS? Who are they?
Reply-To: greg@duke.cs.unlv.edu (Greg Wohletz)
Organization: UNLV Computer Science and Electrical Engineering
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 93 00:40:40 GMT

eastout@ugcs.caltech.edu (Eric A Stout) writes:
) In article <82064@hydra.gatech.EDU> (Jeffrey N. Burch) writes:
) >From today's papers...
) >
) >NCAA 3 Point Leaders (by percentage)
) >---------------------------------------------
) >Gibson, UNLV		30-53		56.6%
) >Davis, Middle Tenn	22-40		55.0%
) >Anderson, Kent		29-53		54.7%
) >Capers, Arizona St	20-37		54.1%
) >Peinton, East Tenn	22-41		53.7%
) >Witman, W Michigan	42-79		53.2%
) >McCaffrey, Vandy	35-66		53.0%
) >Ford, Kentucky		35-66		53.0%
) >Mills, Arizona		25-48		52.1%
) >Ryder, Siena		23-45		51.1%
) >
) 
) Okay, I'm going to put my nerd hat on for a minute here.  Do these numbers look
) funny to any of the economists out there?  I'm not sure I can make my point
) coherent here, but it looks to me like these guys should be shooting a consid-
) erably larger number of threes than they are right now.  Gibson, for example,
) is averaging 1.70 points every time he throws up a three point shot.  Now, I
) happen to know that UNLV doesn't average 1.70 points/shot overall, because that
) would be they were hitting about 85% of their two-pointers (discount free
) throws from this admittedly suspect analysis).  So why doesn't Gibson shoot
) more?

Cause he can only shoot this well if he set, and open, and someone
passes him the ball.  He can't do it off the dribble.  This decreases
his oportunities.  He does shoot anytime the above is true...

						--Greg


Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary L. Newell)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Re: Brian Hendrick
Date: 25 Jan 93 21:15:27 GMT
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson

In article <C1F9x6.9ut.2@cs.cmu.edu>, landay+@cs.cmu.edu (James A Landay) writes:
> Hmmm... Brian Hendrick managed 23 points against UCLA in Cal's

 Against UCLA? Geez - big accomplishment there... especially when you
score 104 points total... Let's see how good ol Brian does against a
true center like Ed Stokes this season...

> win on Sunday.  Not bad for a guy who has had a hard time
> coming back from a knee injury he suffered last year.  Plus, we all know
> he isn't very good (even though he has been all-Pac 10 three
> years running) 

 His performance last season was poor. He was out for extended periods with
his injury and his stats were not the best in the conference at the center 
position. He simply was not the best last season and should not
have made the first team.

> on Cal's team that is any good (though it will be a crime if
> Murray doesn't make all-Pac 10 this year, along with Kidd and
> Haase on the all-frosh team.)

What bullshit. Murray makes all pac-10? Get a grip James. I guess you
haven't seen much of the Pac this season. In fact, for the hell of it,
let's try to figure the first team all-pac

 OK Well the center spot is going to either Haskins or Stokes.
 Mills is clearly going to be on it.
 Stoudamire or Kidd are likely to go first team also in fact they might both go.
 I'd expect  O Bannon to be selected as well. 

 So there's 6 players. There's the kid Henderson from WSU who is getting a big
push from Sampson, Smith at ASU deserves a look, Manning at UW looks good,
Anyone at Oregon? (Stoudamire maybe?), OSU has the guard I've forgotten.
USC must have someone with numbers, Stanford? OK so not Stanford but I
find it hard to see 3 Cal players making the team.

 The way I see it, Cal might get a player on the first team if they finish in
the top 3 but I see no way they'd ge two players unless the second player
is Henderick and the Pac *gives* him another all-pac position as they seem
to do every season.

 As for the all freshmen team, I figure Arizona has at least two spots
locked up. You figure Kidd, Geary, Blair or Maclean (I doubt the coaches in
the Pac have the balls to give Az 3 spots) and that leaves two spots
for the rest of the league. 

 Does anyone have any top-10 stats for the pac, as in fg% ft% 3-pt% total pts
assists and so forth.

 Also, is there any team in the Pac that even comes close to the depth that
Arizona has? I can't think of a single team that can go to the bench game in
and game out and get as many quality minutes from its reserves than Az.
Its kind of scary really - I mean if Arizona's second 5 (Geary, MaClean,
Williams, Bohanon and Blair) started for a Pac-10 team they'd probably be in 
2nd place now...



				gln
From: fls@econ.duke.edu (Forrest Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Re: Dean and the Four Corners
Date: 21 Jan 93 21:52:40 GMT
Organization: Duke University; Durham, N.C.

Rob Mac K writes:

>My favorite UNC stall-ball story was the 1979 home final for Duke
>(surprise!) versus Carolina.  

...

>Well, down 7-0 at half time, Deano elected to come out and play in the
>second half.  They lost 47-40.

	That's my favorite 4-corners story, too, but I guess for a different
reason.  I was there, and it was, at the time, a rueful experience.
	It was the final game of the regular season.  I think Duke had a better
team that year, and playing in Cameron on Senior Day the Dookies were a clear
favorite. 
	But a funny thing happened.  During the next week, prior to the ACC
tournament, all anybody at Duke could talk about was the 7-0 halftime score.
(It seems, as evidenced by Rob's remarks, that it's still dominating their
consciousness.)
	Anyway, when the ACC tournament came up the next weekend, while Duke
concentrated on the game from the week previous, the Tar Heels were more
concerned with the game at hand.  
	I think the Heels and Devils met in the championship game . . . and
guess who won?
	It was clearly, to me at least, a case of using the 4-corners to win
the *next* game!
	
-- 
   __  __                                     
  |__ |__                             %  
  | |  __|  fls@keynes.econ.duke.edu  %  See what the bears in the
    |__                               %  back room will have.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: sms35849@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Scott M. Stortzum)
Subject: Clarence "Bighouse" Gaines
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 03:43:53 GMT

Excuse me, but is Clarence Gaines still an active coach?  (Wiston-
Salem I believe)  I remember hearing that he won his 800th game
last year (could've been 2 years ago).  Could someone print a 
list of the coaches with the most collegiate wins, active and/or
inactive.

Congrats to Lou Henson, who won his 600th tonight against Penn
State.  Illinois hit 24-24 free throws, and only had 5 turnovers.


Scott
From: gharris@jade.tufts.edu (George W. Harris)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Re: Dean and the Four Corners
Date: 22 Jan 93 13:18:05 GMT
Organization: Tufts University - Medford, MA

In article <30008@oasys.dt.navy.mil> swilliam@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Steve Williams) writes:
>In rec.sport.basketball.college, Curt.Hill@launchpad.unc.edu (Curt Hill) 
>writes:
>
> >One can gripe at Smith but he was only using the rules to win games....
> >
> >Dean said he was in favor of a shot clock, but if he wouldn't have 
> >cheesed so many people off, the NCAA might still not have a shot clock 
> >today.....
>
>If you think that the 4 Corners or variants in the last two minutes
>of the game was bad, there was one Duke-UNC game in the 1960's that 
>probably tops it all.
>
>	<example deleted>

	There was another instance more recently as well.  In the regular 
season finale in 1979 at Cameron, UNC went into the four corners immediately
and stayed in it for the entire half.  Unfortunately for them, they only 
managed one shot in the entire half, by Rich `Chick' Yonaker, and that was
an air ball.  Duke led at the half 7-0, setting an all-time record for
defense in a half that may be matched but will never be exceeded.

	UNC reverted to their normal offense in the second half, and the 
final score was 47-40.

	I think there was a Duke-NCState game in the late '60s that State
won by the score of 12-10, but I could be mistaken.

> Steve Williams                           swilliam@oasys.dt.navy.mil
--
gharris@jade.tufts.edu          
George W. Harris              	"He'd kill us if he had the chance."  
Dept. of Mathematics            
Tufts University              			The Conversation
From: wlee@cis.ohio-state.edu (Wang-Chien Lee)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Possesion Arrow
Date: 21 Jan 1993 14:47:50 -0500
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: golf.cis.ohio-state.edu
Summary: rules


Would someone please tell me how the possesion arrow is decided?
In a jump ball situation, we look at the possesion arrow to decide
which side the ball belongs to. However, I never had a clue how it's
decided. 

-- wang-chien
-- 
--
Wang-Chien Lee  CIS Dept., The Ohio State University, Columbus, Ohio
arpa: wang-c@cis.ohio-state.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: ags@seaman.cc.purdue.edu (Dave Seaman)
Subject: Re: Rules question
Organization: Purdue University
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 21:52:23 GMT

In article <1993Jan25.203202.136@cs.tulane.edu> keleher@cs.tulane.edu  
(William Keleher) writes:
> 
>   Two questions actually:
> 
> #1) Excluding technical fouls, is it possible to score more than 5  
points
>     on a single possession?  Is there any way to score 5 other than a  
good
>     3-pt attempt and a foul away from the shot in the double bonus?

Depends on what you mean by a "possession." Suppose the second free throw  
is missed and an offensive player puts in the rebound, completing a  
six-point play? Suppose he instead passes to a teammate who shoots another  
3-pointer and another foul is called away from the ball?

It used to be fairly common to have fouls called "after the shot," meaning  
that a single player could rack up a 5-point play if there was contact  
after he released the shot. Steve Alford once did this in a tournament  
game, and I saw another play like it within the last year, but I don't  
remember who it was.

 
> #2) At the last game I went to, a fan tried to explain to me some rule
>     change involving shooters leaning forward to draw a foul - evidently
>     this is now a "player-control" foul against the shooter?  This guy
>     didn't seem to really know what he was talking about, can someone  
fill
>     me in?

It can happen in a variety of ways, but the common characteristic is that  
the player with the ball is the one who initiates contact. A foul is  
called, but there are no free throws. The ball goes to the other team.
This rule has been in effect for at least thirty years, but there may be  
some minor refinements or points of emphasis in determining exactly what  
constitutes a "player-control foul".

--
Dave Seaman
ags@seaman.cc.purdue.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college,psu.sports
From: exby@spot.Colorado.EDU (Doc Exby)
Subject: Re: ATTENTION ALL PENN STATERS-IMPORTANT!!!
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 16:14:01 GMT

jdh@math.psu.edu (Jeremy D Hall) writes:

>In article <exby.728080700@spot.Colorado.EDU> exby@spot.Colorado.EDU (Doc Exby) writes:

>As far as the "money" issue, it's FREE to students here at Penn State.  

i think a wise man once said - "all that is free man not be worthwhile"
or something like that.

>If I wanted to see dunk after dunk, I'd follow the NBA.  Then again, the team
>from Colorado, the Denver Nuggets, was about as exciting as watching mold
>form the last time I knew...

they arent a playoff team but at least they have players with
athletic abilities and speed.  you probably havent seen Laphonso
play this year have you tho?

>>     Bastion of truth and justice
>>....................................

>Notice, of course that he has to tell you TWICE that he's the bastard...oops,
>"bastion" of truth and justice.  :^)

yeah, problem with the ol .sig  it's been fixed now.

>-Jeremy Hall
>-Penn State Univ.
>jdh@math.psu.edu

::j

     Bastion of truth and justice
.....................................
-=====-                        -=====-
  -=-   exby@spot.Colorado.EDU   -=-
   -                              -
From: whg@acpub.duke.edu (WILLIAM GAY)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Re: 3 POINT SHOOTERS? Who are they?
Date: 27 Jan 93 14:54:36 GMT
Organization: Duke University; Durham, N.C.

I know Bill McCaffrey is playing well at Vandy, but how well is he
shooting the 3?  Does he shoot it alot?

Donald Williams of UNC and Travis Best of GaTech are two of the
best 3-point shooter in the ACC.

-Will
From: whg@acpub.duke.edu (WILLIAM GAY)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Re: Dean and the Four Corners
Date: 21 Jan 93 22:08:41 GMT
Organization: Duke University; Durham, N.C.

In article <8923@news.duke.edu> fls@econ.duke.edu (Forrest Smith) writes:
>Rob Mac K writes:
>
>	That's my favorite 4-corners story, too, but I guess for a different
>reason.  I was there, and it was, at the time, a rueful experience.

stuff about UNC losing at home and then winning the next week because
those Dukies were still crying about the previous game.

>	It was clearly, to me at least, a case of using the 4-corners to win
>the *next* game!
>	

Oh horseshit.  Dean had a team that couldn't cope, so he played it the
way he thought he had too.  Then, when his team scored even with Duke
without the stall-ball, he probably had his eyes opened a little.  I
seriously doubt he went to the 4-corners to set up Duke for the ACC
championship.  That would be like Michigan throwing up a bunch of threes
to make the opposition forget about Webber the next time around, at the
cost of the current game.  I am sure the 4-corners rattled some people
in Durham, and maybe this convinced him to abandon it in the end.  Dean
would never throw a senior day game to "win the *next* game".  Save your
"you misunderstood my point" flames.  I am sure you were just carried
away by the magic of the moment.
From: tjehl@sedona.intel.com (Timothy Jehl)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Re: The art of getting fouled. Re: tOSU 69 - IU 96
Date: 26 Jan 1993 00:07:11 GMT
Organization: Intel Corporation.
Distribution: na
Reply-To: tjehl@sedona.intel.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: july.intel.com
Originator: tjehl@sedona


   I felt that the analysts in this game did a reasonably decent
job of explaining the difference in the foul situation that teams
like IU usually enjoy.  If you play the game at the three point line,
you hardly ever get fouled, whereas if your offense is designed to
work the ball into the paint to get the high percentage shot, you get
fouled a lot.  IU's offense has always been designed to have their
offense move into the 10 ft. range.  When they play teams that also
use that type of offense (your proverbial half court offense), you
see the foul situation even up noticeably.
   Note that Knight, while willing to take advantage of the rule
once it was in place, was one of the most ardent opponents to the
three point shot rule.

TJ
From: lpc4@po.CWRU.Edu (Lawrence P. Colucci)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Re: The art of getting fouled. Re: tOSU 69 - IU 96
Date: 25 Jan 1993 21:09:21 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


While I have to agree that IU is good at getting calls to go their
way, I still have problems with the travelling call on Simpson with
the "Freshman Flash" that was supposedly unnecessary.  From where I
sat, he was about to be checked by an IU player and seemed to stop
after he had been blocked, tried to get the ball away and change his
shot.  Maybe it was just hot dogging, but I would like to have another
close look at the position of the other player.  Not that the call would
have made that much differeence, but it seemed he didn't deserve
some of the comments the announcers made.
And even though the players are good at getting calls, I'm sure that
the refs didn't hesitate when they had a little doubt in their minds
who to favor - I mean at one point it was 19-3 IU advantage from the
free throw line.  Sure, you say, OSU is an inexperienced team.  But
the numbers were worse last year with the four seniors, JJ, and
Funderburke.  I guess that Randy is just too clean for that sort of
thing.
From: landay+@cs.cmu.edu (James A Landay)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Brian Hendrick
Date: 25 Jan 93 18:27:01 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.C1F9x6.9ut.2
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

Hmmm... Brian Hendrick managed 23 points against UCLA in Cal's
win on Sunday.  Not bad for a guy who has had a hard time
coming back from a knee injury he suffered last year.  Plus, we all know
he isn't very good (even though he has been all-Pac 10 three
years running) and only scores because there is nobody else
on Cal's team that is any good (though it will be a crime if
Murray doesn't make all-Pac 10 this year, along with Kidd and
Haase on the all-frosh team.)



-- 

James A. Landay
landay@cs.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: wung@eecom.gatech.edu (Peter Wung)
Subject: Re: Biggest Upset of the Decade
Reply-To: wung@eecom.gatech.edu
Organization: School of EE, Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta, GA
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 19:02:54 GMT

How about Nova beating Georgetown in '86(?)
---
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*Peter Wung			Email:wung@ee.gatech.edu	   * 
*Electric Power Laboratory	Snail mail: 33787 Ga. Tech Station * 
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*Atlanta, Georgia						   *
*   	"Pass, Set, CRUSH!"...					   * 
*  	Well, 2 out of 3 ain't bad for a short, fat guy. 	   *
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