HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tomm@crhc.uiuc.edu (Thomas B Maciukenas)
Newsgroups: comp.text.interleaf
Subject: Oops, forgot my signature :^)
Date: 9 Jan 1993 17:24:02 -0600
Organization: Center for Reliable and High-Performance Computing, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
NNTP-Posting-Host: treflan.crhc.uiuc.edu

          (__)
     _____(@@)
    /| ## (..)
   * ||--||   Mooooooooooooooooooooooo..........
-- 
_-Tom_Maciukenas_(tomm@crhc.uiuc.edu)_________________________

"To live reflected in a spoon,
 makes it too hard to stay in tune." - Greg Lake   "Huh?" - Me
Newsgroups: comp.text.interleaf
From: irakliot@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Leo J. Irakliotis)
Subject: Newsletter using Ileaf 5.2
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1993 15:32:35 GMT
Reply-To: irakliot@lance.colostate.edu
Organization: Engineering Network Services, Colorado State University


Is there anyone in this group with experience on setting up a
newsletter (up to 12 pages) on Ileaf5.2? I would like any suggestion
and advice of the following issues:

*   table of contents
*   skiping to pages/columns (i.e. a article that begins on page 2
    might continue on page 7).
*   tips and hints for better typesetting.

Cheers,
-- 
Leo J Irakliotis                 irakliot@eva.lance.colostate.edu
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Electrical Engineering                      l.irakliotis@ieee.org
Colorado State U
(303) 491-2021                              Optical Computing Lab
Newsgroups: comp.text
From: Nitezki@NiDat.sub.org (Peter Nitezki)
Subject: Re: Oxford - Dictionaries
Organization: private site of Peter Nitezki, Kraichtal, Germany
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 14:18:05 GMT

In article <1993Jan7.142110.7204@zeus.ieee.org> jbarth@ep.ieee.org (Jeremy  
Barth) writes:
> > I think a long time ago (circa 1990) I remembered
> > reading about a project out of university of waterloo
> > in which they were doing a comphresive effort to put
> > the complete oxford english dictionary into an
> > electronic format.  Has this been done?
> 
> I don't know about the U of W-loo, but Oxford itself
> put the dictionary on CD-ROM years ago.   In 1992 they 
> came out with a far better version.  
> 
> I'm not sure what the price is, but it's probably
> going to be fairly high.

Not that I want to advertise it or that I have any interest in selling the  
things, but on NeXT computers operating system there comes a Webster  
dictionary plus the complete works of William Shakespeare free of any  
charge (ok the whole thing is a bit pricey but you get a whole computer  
with it ;-) ). Spelling, thesaurus, citations and book quality formatted  
text. Want anything more?
-- 
Peter Nitezki       | Nitezki@NiDat.sub.org # Blessed thou who knoweth
Staarenbergstr. 44  | Tel.:  +49 7251 62495 # not about the pleasure and
D-7527 Kraichtal 2  | Fax :  +49 7251 69215 # delight of being hooked
GERMANY             |                       # up to the Net. Peter 1,3-5
Newsgroups: comp.text,alt.text.dwb,comp.sys.att
From: kak@hico2.westmark.com (Kris A. Kugel)
Subject: info needed on gc2pic
Keywords: pic troff gc
Reply-To: query@hico2.westmark.com
Organization: High Country Software
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 18:47:17 GMT

There's a set of troff macros that turn a "typewriter drawing" into
lines called "gc".
As I recall, it handles curves through the use of adjacent '(' or '@'
characters.  I think they work only for certain Xerox printers.

	.GS
		@@@
	       @   @
		@@@
	.GE

There's a filter version, called "gc2pic",
which generates "pic" output.  The version I used
did not handle any form of curves.

Given my lack of a working "xcip/cip" program
for generating pic output, gc2pic seems like
the easiest way of creating pic pictures fast.

Is there a newer version of gc2pic available that corrects
the curve problem?

Kris A. Kugel	908-842-2707
hico2!query	query@hico2.westmark.com
Newsgroups: comp.text
From: gilbertd@chipmunk.bio.indiana.edu (Don Gilbert)
Subject: List of RTF capable wordprocessors
Organization: Biology, Indiana University - Bloomington
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 18:26:54 GMT

RTF (Rich Text Format) capable wordprocessors:

Platform       Wordprocessor             Version
--------       ---------------          ----------------
Mac            Microsoft Word           all versions
Mac            WordPerfect              1?, 2 (current)
Mac            WriteNow                 2,3 (current)
Mac            MacWrite II              (current)

MS-DOS         Microsoft Word           all versions (?)
MS-DOS         WordPerfect              The version we have does not. 3.1?
MS-DOS         AmiPro (Lotus)           2 and 3 Better that Word Perfect

MS-Windows     Microsoft Word           all versions
MS-Windows     WordPerfect              current 
MS-Windows     Dagesh                   1.0 

NeXT           WriteNow                 current
NeXT           WordPerfect              (Not yet?)

Acorn RISCOS   !Impression             with Business package

Sun            WordPerfect              Not yet

XWindows       WordPerfect              Not yet
XWindows       Framemaker		(maybe, not verified)
XWindows       Andrew User Interface System

Unix command-line  troff/ditroff        any - using troff2rtf and rtf2troff

-----------
XWindows = various Unix computers with xwindows unless specified.
troff2rtf and rtf2troff are available by ftp from ftp.primate.wisc.edu.
Wayne Rindone registered a request with WordPerfect corp to have
them add RTF to their XWin-Unix versions.

In article <BzJ4ot.6vp@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> I wrote:
>I am looking at RTF (Rich Text Format, specified by Microsoft)
>as a possible  cross-platform, cross-wordprocessor interchange
>format for documents.
>...
>Anyone who knows of other word processors that can read/write RTF
>format, please advise me.  I'll repost a summary of responses.

Thanks to all who replied, including:
 Charles Loader <charles@morgan.ucs.mun.ca>
 Tom Gordon <thomas@hera.gmd.de>
 Wilfred.Hansen@cs.cmu.edu
 johnl@iecc.cambridge.ma.us (John R. Levine)
 P A Viton <pviton@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
 rindone%morgan@harvard.harvard.edu (Wayne P Rindone)
 David Fox <dfox@quack.sac.ca.us>
 warren@itexjct.jct.ac.il (Warren Burstein)
 daved@physiol.su.oz.au (Dave Davey)


-- 
Don Gilbert                                     gilbert@bio.indiana.edu
biocomputing office, biology dept., indiana univ., bloomington, in 47405
From: ucgadkw@ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk)
Newsgroups: comp.text
Subject: Re: List of RTF capable wordprocessors
Date: 6 Jan 93 11:28:55 GMT
Organization: Bloomsbury Computing Consortium

add:

DOS      Signature (XyQuest)     all versions.
Newsgroups: comp.text.sgml
From: edb@HQ.Ileaf.COM (Ed Blachman x4420)
Subject: Re: Precedence of SGML Operators?
Reply-To: edb@HQ.Ileaf.COM (Ed Blachman x4420)
Organization: Interleaf, Inc.
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 93 15:39:33 GMT

In article <93005.142005U35395@uicvm.uic.edu> U35395@uicvm.uic.edu (C. M. Sperberg-McQueen) writes:
> The analyses posted already seem to me to hit the case:  looks like
> a bug in Mark-It.

Just one further note: Holger Rath found this bug in Mark-It 2.0, which is
actually a rather old version (1988) version of Mark-It.  In the more recent
Mark-It 2.2.3 (late '91? early '92?), that bug is no longer present.

Ed Blachman		edb@hq.ileaf.com  (or)	...!uunet!leafusa!edb
From: bdowning@Control.COM (Bill Downing)
Newsgroups: comp.text.sgml
Subject: Re: FrameBuilder
Date: 12 Jan 93 03:17:24 GMT
Organization: Control Technology Corp., Hopkinton MA

thomas@gmd.de (Tom Gordon, I3.KI 2665) writes:

>Anyway, I'm not holding my breath.  It would be nice to get a demo version
>to play with, and a complete set of documentation.

>Finally, I see an email address for Frame on the back cover, in case any 
>of you would like to get in direct contact with the company:  comments@frame.com

You might also try cross-posting these FrameBuilder articles to
comp.text.frame, although I'm not sure how often anyone from
FrameMaker Technology reads the newsgroup...:-)


-- 
Bill Downing, President		Email: bdowning@schunix.uucp
DOWNING ASSOCIATES, INC.	       bdowning@control.com
8 Doyle Lane
Hopkinton, MA 01748		Voice: 508-435-4567
From: drmacro@ralvm13.VNET.IBM.COM
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 93 17:09:16 EST
Newsgroups: comp.text.sgml
Subject:  "full SGML support"
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not those of IBM
News-Software: UReply 3.1

In the discussion of FrameBuilder, the phrase "full SGML support"
has been bandied about.  The problem with the term is that anyone
who claims it currently is lying, if we take it literally, because
no-one supports the LINK feature (that I know of) and no-one supports
CONCUR, that I know of, thus, no-one provides "full" SGML support, and
if anyone claims to support those, I'd want to see proof of how they
do it before I accepted their word for it.  I would not accept parsing
of valid LPDs with no other LINK-related function available as "support",
for example.

I wonder if we shouldn't agree as a community what "full SGML
support" really means so that we have a consistent and reasonable
standard for applications, a standard that is not onerous but that
is complete enough to be useful and worth advertising.

I would accept the following definition of "full" as reasonable:

o Support for all *required* features of SGML
o Support for variant syntaxes and any set of capacity values
o Support for SUBDOC

I would like to see support for the following as part of "full",
but wouldn't push the matter:

o Support for the APPINFO statement in SGML declarations (minimally,
  making the information defined on APPINFO available through one
  or more application interfaces).
o Support for LINK.

I would not insist on CONCUR, despite Michael Sperberg-McQueen's arguments
to the contrary.

Perhaps we can define "complete SGML support" to mean support for
*all* aspects of ISO 8879.  This would prevent pedants like Erik
and myself from getting difficult when people claim "full" SGML
support and give us, the community of SGML users, a somewhat
reliable method of judging applications using a reasonable set
of criteria.

Eliot Kimber                      Internet:  drmacro@ralvm13.vnet.ibm.com
Dept E14/B500                     IBMMAIL:   USIB2DK9@IBMMAIL
Network Programs Information Development     Phone: 1-919-543-7091
IBM Corporation
Research Triangle Park, NC 27709
Newsgroups: comp.text.sgml
From: john@thelonius.mitre.org (John D. Burger)
Subject: Separation of text and markup
Organization: Artificial Intelligence Center, MITRE Corporation
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 19:42:17 GMT

Erik Naggum (erik@naggum.no) writes:

  If you wish to separate the markup from the text completely, you will need to
  establish a means to identify the start and end of all elements in the
  separated text.  This is certainly _possible_, but you wouldn't want to do it,
  because you would end up with more things to take care of than writing an
  SGML-aware editor from scratch.

We're developing a text understanding system that marks up the source with
semantic information in SGML (e.g. <VIOLENCE victim="...">).  What we will
eventually have is a SUITE of such processors, from simple (but fast) to
sophisticated (but slow).  Different users may run different processors on the
same source document, and may eventually wish to merge or compare the results.

What this seems to require is exactly what you describe, namely, keeping track of
where every element (or at least every tag) is, in terms of the original
document.

Since processors might treat white space differently (e.g. two blank lines vs.
indentation for paragraphs), it even seems that we have to index the SGML down to
the individual characters, not just words or other tokens.

Are there any tools we can take advantage of that already do this?

John Burger
john@mitre.org
Newsgroups: comp.text.sgml
From: alfa@b23a.b23a.ingr.com (Laura Walker)
Subject: Request: GCA SGML Conference Notes
Organization: Intergraph
Distribution: comp
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 14:29:45 GMT

Seybold Report on Publishing Systems - Vol 22, No. 7 indicated that
Michael Sperberg-McQueen had posted an extensive report on the conference
to this newsgroup.  

Having been out of touch with Internet over the holidays, I missed it.
I'd be extremely grateful to whomever would be kind enough to repost
that report.  


----------------------------------------------------------------------
|  /|| ||~| /|  |   | /|| |/[~|~|	     laura@alfa.b23a.ingr.com
|_/ ||_|| \/ |  |_|_|/ ||_|\[_| \    	     temp. beeper:   720-0073
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Laura Walker				     Voice:    205 / 730-8175	
Federal & Industrial Publishing Solutions    FAX:      205 / 730-9478
INTERGRAPH CORPORATION 		 	     Mailstop: LR23A2       
One Madison Industrial Park 	 	     Building 23A, Room 105H
Huntsville, Alabama   USA 35894 	     --standard disclaimer--
From: ag129@cus.cam.ac.uk (Alasdair Grant)
Newsgroups: comp.text.sgml
Subject: Re: SGML for data querying
Date: 7 Jan 93 14:28:52 GMT
Organization: U of Cambridge, England


But support for queries of the form "move to previous <item> element"
would be difficult to support without storing the entire database in
fully parsed form.  Then you're not really talking about SGML at
all, you're talking about a hierarchical database, object-oriented even,
with facilities for SGML import and export.

In fact thinking of this as SGML could raise many problems, for example
forcing users to make distinctions between element-attributes and element
data, and forcing them to know about ordering even when (to the data) it
might not be significant.  To me, choosing whether to store data in
content or attributes is one of the real hassles of DTD design.  Surely
the way to go is define a common view of object-oriented databases, and
then settle on a way in which these can be imported and exported as SGML.

One useful thing to do might be to build SGML support into one of the
string-processing languages like SNOBOL or Icon.  (I don't really class
Rexx or Perl since they only have linear patterns, but I do know of some
database query languages which work on the SNOBOL model.)
From: wohler@vnet.ibm.com (Wayne L. Wohler)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 93 15:57:01 MST
Newsgroups: comp.text.sgml
Subject: Re: SGML (DSSSL) Query Grammar
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not those of IBM
News-Software: UReply 3.1

In <ROBIN.93Jan9123126@utafll.utafll.uta.edu> Robin Cover writes:
>I would like to know if anyone has recent information about the DSSSL
>Query Grammar.  There's a single file in the ORA/Davenport directory
>dating I think to July 1992, but I'm sure lots has happened since
>then.  I'd like to read any papers, minutes, TRs or other documents
>that discuss the theoretical and practical issues.
There has certainly been a lot of changes in the DSSSL grammar since
last June.  The grammar has not changed significantly since the SGML '92
Query Grammar session in Danvers, although some changes will be
considered in Knoxville.  In general, the best place for information on
DSSSL and its status is the standards editor, Sharon Adler.  I suggest
that unless you have an urgent need for immediate information, you hold
such queries until after a special working group meeting being held
March 15-26.  The purpose of that meeting is to prepare the DIS for
distribution and review.  Sharon's e-mail address is 'sca@ebt.com'.
>
>Michael Sperberg-McQueen said parenthetically in the "SGML '92 report"
>that he hoped the list of thirteen sample queries distributed by
>Paula Angerstein to the panelists discussing SGML query languages
>might be posted publicly.  Does anyone have this list, or was it
>posted already?  Could anyone supply Paula's email address?
I have seen (and have a copy of) the hardcopy of the results of the
query session in Danvers (it does not include the SFQL queries).  I have
not seen such any comprehensive softcopy.  If someone has hardcopy of
the SFQL queries, please send them to me.  For the first 20 who ask,
(please as through e-mail) I'll send hardcopy of the queries.  If there
are significantly more requests than that, I won't be able to respond.
>
>More generally, I would be interested in anything written recently on
>SGML query languages, whether specifically related to DSSSL or HyTime
>or not.  I'll gratefully receive any such documents or leads that will
>help track down the most promising proposals and experiments.
I haven't seem much besides the DSSSL working papers.  The other day I
did read a paper <cit>SGML Documents and Nonlinear Text Retrieval</> by
Macleod, I.A. et al.  The paper cam from the proceedings of a conference
on intelligence text and image handling ... RIAO '91 in Barcelona.  It
referenced and built on FUL/TEXT by Fulcrum Technologies.  It also
referenced a paper by Macleod <cit/A Query Language for Retrieving
Information from Hierarchic Text Structures/, Technical Report
89-263, Queen's University, Kingston, 1989 which I have not seen.

Wayne L. Wohler                   Internet:  wohler@vnet.ibm.com
Dept G82/910M                     IBMMAIL:   USIB29WX@IBMMAIL
Publishing Solutions Development             Phone: 1-303-924-0470
IBM Corporation
Boulder, Colorado  80301-9191
From: brian@sgml.com (Brian E. Travis)
Newsgroups: comp.text.sgml
Subject: <TAG> Abstracts, January, 1993
Distribution: world
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 93 05:26:59 GMT
Organization: SGML Associates, Inc.
Reply-To: brian@sgmlinc.com

The January, 1993 issue of <TAG>, The SGML Newsletter, is in 
the mail. As a service to the readers of comp.text.sgml, the 
table of contents, along with a brief description of each 
article, is listed below.

<TAG>, published monthly, is the only regular source of 
information  for the SGML industry: articles, reviews, product 
news, tutorials, standards updates, user group information, case 
studies, and useful technical tips and information. <TAG> is 
designed to be an objective voice of the SGML community. We 
accept no advertising and encourage frank and open debate on the 
issues faced by the information publisher.

For more information about <TAG>, contact SGML Associates at
    +1 303-680-0875, 
    by fax: +1 303-680-4906, 
    or by e-mail: tag@sgml.com.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                       <TAG> January 1993
-----------------------------------------------------------------
This issue marks the beginning of out seventh year of 
publication. We would like to thank all of our subscribers and 
contributors for supporting us over the years.
    
The DTD May Not Be Enough: SGML Declarations
    by Wayne Wohler, Advisory Engineer with IBM in Boulder, 
    Colorado.
    
    This is part II of a three-part tutorial on the SGML 
    Declaration. The Declaration is a little-understood piece of 
    SGML, and can solve many problems that users encounter in 
    implementing SGML in their organizations. This tutorial 
    series attempts to explain the Declaration and its use.
    
    Part II describes the Reference Concrete Syntax.

1992 Abstracts
    Brief abstracts for each feature printed in all issues of 
    1992, plus headlines for news articles.
            
News
    Calendar
    Avalanche Announces SGML Hammer
    Datalogics Introduces DL Composer
    Technical Report Available
    Movement
    New SGML Book Available
    On-Line Publishing '93

--
Brian E. Travis                                              brian@sgml.com
Managing Editor,                                      Tele: +1 303 680-0875
<TAG> The SGML Newsletter                              Fax: +1 303 680-4906
From: hartman@informix.com (Robert Hartman)
Newsgroups: comp.text.sgml
Subject: Re: FrameBuilder
Date: 12 Jan 93 20:22:01 GMT
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.

In article <1993Jan12.150838.22518@gmd.de> thomas@gmd.de writes:
>In article 28407@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com, lange@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com (Alex Lange) writes:
>> 
>> As for "native SGML support," I realized that was an untruth when I was
>> told that documents are stored in Frame's binary format.
>
>Although I too would prefer that SGML editors store documents in SGML,
>rather than some binary format, this is not uncommon.  Well, at least
>SoftQuad's Author/Editor product also does this.    I don't think this
>should be one of the required features for a "fully conform" SGML editor.

I do.  The entire point of SGML is to provide generalized
application-level access to a document's contents.  This can only be
done if the documents are stored in marked-up ASCII form.  Any binary
format will by nature be propietary to some degree.  This will prevent
other applications from importing or operating on that text (important
keyword that).  While I might go so far as to say that one could
"precompile" or store style catalogs in a binary format, that's as far
as the SGML concept can be stretched without breaking.

-r
From: bernd@melon.iss.nus.sg (Bernd Nordhausen)
Newsgroups: comp.text.sgml
Subject: DTD desgin for forms
Date: 6 Jan 93 09:13:26 GMT
Organization: Institute Of Systems Science, NUS
Originator: bernd@melon


I am in the process of writing DTD's for forms, eg. tax forms, application
forms, etc.  I think SGML is ideal for representing forms as form in SGML 
will be more structured, and can be better queried. However, there are some 
interesting questions that arise.

For example,  when one designs several forms, should each form have a 
separate DTD, or should you have one general DTD with each separate 
form an instance of that DTD?

Has anybody else designed DTD's for such purposes? I would like to exchange 
some ideas and thoughts.

Cheers, Bernd
-- 
   Bernd Nordhausen (bernd@iss.nus.sg)
   Institute of Systems Science                           Ph: +65 772-6240 
   National University of Singapore                      FAX: +65 778-2571
   Singapore 0511
From: robin@utafll.uta.edu (Robin Cover)
Subject: SGML (DSSSL) Query Grammar
Organization: UT Arlington
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 18:31:26 GMT

I would like to know if anyone has recent information about the DSSSL
Query Grammar.  There's a single file in the ORA/Davenport directory
dating I think to July 1992, but I'm sure lots has happened since
then.  I'd like to read any papers, minutes, TRs or other documents
that discuss the theoretical and practical issues.

Michael Sperberg-McQueen said parenthetically in the "SGML '92 report"
that he hoped the list of thirteen sample queries distributed by
Paula Angerstein to the panelists discussing SGML query languages
might be posted publicly.  Does anyone have this list, or was it
posted already?  Could anyone supply Paula's email address?

More generally, I would be interested in anything written recently on
SGML query languages, whether specifically related to DSSSL or HyTime
or not.  I'll gratefully receive any such documents or leads that will
help track down the most promising proposals and experiments.

Robin Cover

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robin Cover              BITNET:   zrcc1001@smuvm1  ("one-zero-zero-one")
6634 Sarah Drive         Internet: robin@utafll.uta.edu  ("uta-ef-el-el")
Dallas, TX  75236  USA   Internet: zrcc1001@vm.cis.smu.edu
Tel: (1 214) 296-1783    Internet: robin@ling.uta.edu
FAX: (1 214) 709-2433    Internet: robin@txsil.sil.org
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