HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ciaran@county.lmt.mn.org (Ciaran Benson)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mecha,rec.arts.anime
Subject: Re: Robotech vs. ? SuperConductive Shields
Date: 25 Jan 93 22:51:19 GMT
Reply-To: ciaran@county.lmt.mn.org (Ciaran Benson)
Organization: LaserMaster Technologies, Minneapolis, MN

In article <1jl9pdINNhuf@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu>, probe@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Prabal Nandy) writes:
> since the Enterprise always raises shields whenever some star is
> giving off too much Radiation, or whenever they're going through a debris
> field, etc... I'll assume that the shields DO block these things.
>    My next assumption is that damage absorbed is directly proportional to
> energy drain on shield. I.e., if it's blocked by the shield, the shield uses
> energy to do this

	I'm not sure I'm happy with myself for continuing this conversation, especially since 
these are exactly the kinds of topics I usually "mark read".  Still, this shields thing has 
tweaked a memory of an experiment I and some engineering friends played with.

	SoOkFine, that being said ...

	The shields of the Enterprise share several characteristics with superconductors, 
especially in that they match the potential of incoming energy and, like a magnet, repel it.  I'd 
imagine that if you set a magnet against the Enterprise (in the presence of gravity so the 
magnet would "sit" on the Enterprise) and "powered up" the shields you would end up with a 
levitating magnet.

	So, for some kinds of "attacks", the shields become "satiated" and the energy must be 
absorbed by the ship's systems or radiated into space -- not an easy task in a vacum.

	That would require the engineers of that century to have created a "powered" 
superconductive web which could be turned on and off -- in space, yet.  It would be easier to 
just coat the entire ship with a high-temperature superconductor and leave the shields 
permanently "on" as a feature of the ship's construction.

	If this were true, I'd imagine that the satiated shields could be used as a power source to 
fuel energy weapons.  Why this doesn't happen is all in the mind of the writers.

	Sorry for yaking about Trek in an Anime group, but there it was, and so was I.

	Ciaran.

----------
Ciaran@county.lmt.mn.org                    NOT an LM SpokesBeing

"... hey but I don't care 'cause sometimes I said sometimes I hear
  my voice and it's been HERE silent all these years" -- TORI AMOS
From: edmonds@cs.ubc.ca (Brian Edmonds)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mecha
Subject: Re: Mech spreadsheet...WHAT???!?!?!?!?!
Date: 25 Jan 1993 15:50:53 -0800
Organization: Computer Science, University of B.C., Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: cobra.cs.ubc.ca

tfpayn01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu wrote:
>	I've been away from this group for a few days, and I've OBVIOUSLY
>missed something.  What IS this 'mech spreadsheet?
Well, I posted a mech design spreadsheet for sc (a PD UNIX spreadsheet 
program), and Stephane has since offered his (apparently 123) 
spreadsheet if there's interest.  Of course, there is always the DOS 
mech112 package for creating mechs, but the advantage of the 
spreadsheet approach is you can change fairly fundemental things in 
mech design (such as double engines) easily. 

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian Edmonds (MSc CompSci)                            edmonds@cs.ubc.ca
From: blurr@deforest.ee.washington.edu ( Gary Hoy Eng 8950112)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mecha
Subject: Mecha!
Date: 26 Jan 1993 19:21:37 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: deforest.ee.washington.edu

My friends and I play Mecha too.  We've found it definitely catches
the anime feel better than Btech or Mekton.  It's fast paced and 
furious.  However, mecha mortality is extremely high, so starting 
out with green characters and doing an rpg-like campaign is very 
difficult. (We've cycled through two full companies of mecha and 
pilots in only four battles.) 
The system includes dodging, flying, transforming, beam sabres (Gundam), 
lasers, cannons, shields (physical and energy), exploding, HUGE missle
spreads (a la Rtech), punching, kicking, and all that neat stuff
that you see in the shows.  (And just like the shows, your mecha get 
blown up after one or two hits, depeding on design). 
It's a wonderfully generic system - you even design your own weapons.
The only thing we have against it are design limits and the ability
of enemy mechs to blow up in your face and kill you 
after cutting it in half with beam sabres.
The design limits use points which are implied to be linked to 
tonnage (i.e. big heavy mechs get more design points) however one 
can make an extremely fast, maneuverable super-heavy unit that is
faster and more maneuverable than the fastest light mech possible.
I would suggest playing it if you have lots of models to use and 
aren't too tight-assed to use substitute figures for your mecha 
(I use Ral Partha Marauders for my MAC II designs...).
--
From: taia_a@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz (Second Genyosha)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mecha
Subject: Re: Arrow IV mech and spotter
Date: 26 Jan 1993 23:37:21 GMT
Organization: Wellington City Council (Public Access), Wgtn, Nz
Distribution: world
Reply-To: taia_a@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
NNTP-Posting-Host: kosmos.wcc.govt.nz

In article <1k2jf8INNkot@cobra.cs.ubc.ca>, edmonds@cs.ubc.ca (Brian Edmonds) writes:
>taia_a@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz wrote:
>>Crossbow XBW-1K
>Very nice. :)

Thank you :)

>> This mek has all 51 crits used and is without hands and lower arm actuators
>>and is "legal" in it's design. Though the cost of this mek is huge! I figure
>>it out to some 11,516,000 C-bills and add 5,000 C-bills for every ton of
>>homing Arrow rounds. Not cheap, but I have played these againist Dasher
>>Wolfpacks and won!
>Hmm, you may want to recalculate that.  I come up with a cost of 23MC.  
>This raises a question I hadn't thought of before.  Is the ammo cost 
>multiplied by the (1+tonnage/100) factor too?  It appears from the 
>Compendium that it is, but that seems silly. 

 I forgot the final battlemech cost multiplier which doubles my cost estimates.
So the actual costing is now 23,032,000 C-bills! Include the cheapest ammo
as this covers the cost of the ammo bins etc.

>I was considering making my own double Arrow IV platform, but I think 
>this one just about covers what I had in mind. :)
>Brian Edmonds (MSc CompSci)                            edmonds@cs.ubc.ca

 My design of the Crossbow can be simplified and shrunk down in weight, but
to do so means removing a large pulse laser and the design loses its
symmertry (sp) and seems unbalanced. I like the Crossbow just cause it worked
out the first time I made it. Since most of my designs start at a certain
tonnage and then I try to cut it down. The 75 ton Battlemaster is a good
example of this. The Arrow IV Missile Artillery System is huge and needs
large ammo bins to feed it and why only have one? Might as well have two
and make the mek a real fire support platform.

 Though the Arrow would be better served on a vehicle, with the new rules
you are risking the loss of a very valuable weapon should meks do a "Ground
Unit Overrun" (Compendium Pg 51).
 I'll stick to Crossbows for my Arrow carriers though VTOL Arrow carriers
are very attractive.

This has been....
 Tony Taia                 (Chu-sa of the Second Genyosha)
 TAIA_A@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz  **Join the DCMS see the Inner Sphere and kill it**
3055-3067: So little time, so many Clan meks to kill! Pussycats -1/2 price :)
**Noone knows what I know, so you know that what I know is only mine to know**
From: yaotl@shakala.com (Dave Georgeson)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mecha
Subject: Re: Who needs light mecha?
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 22:03:32 PST
Organization: Shakala BBS (ClanZen Radio Network) Sunnyvale, CA 408-734-2289

> Coming to think about it, why a walking chasis?  Who needs mech
> at all?  Why not build Ogres instead?  I mean anything walking
> is inherently instable anyways, and has a gigantic profile.
> I know, I know...mechs look much cooler!  But besides that.
> 
>   -- Gil

Gil, you're generally right about light mecha only being able to carry a 
limited amount of firepower (ok, that's only GENERALLY correct, but it's 
most of the time), BUT, assuming that the mecha is able to move and react 
like the mecha we see in anime, the light chassis has some distinct 
advantages. First of all, it's lighter frame allows it to duck and weave 
with the best of them, making it harder to hit in battle. (Who needs 
armor if you don't get hit?) Also, the same engines mounted on a mid or 
heavy chassis will give a great deal more thrust on a lighter frame 
(assuming it can stand the stress). And, lastly, from a roleplay 
standpoint, those lighter chassis (just what IS plural for chassis?), are 
easier to build and take less resources on a wartime economy. There is 
also a common military viewpoint that even though lighter vehicles carry 
lighter weapons, an army with restricted resources can field so MANY more 
light vehicles than heavy ones, that the sheer NUMBERS of weapons often 
destroy an enemy force in the first round of volleys. (This often works 
in games of all kinds.)

------------------------------------------------------------------
Dave Georgeson  - yaotl@shakala.com 
Shakala BBS (ClanZen Radio Network) Sunnyvale, CA 408-734-2289
Newsgroups: rec.games.mecha
From: kgnome@cs.concordia.ca (MATIS stephane)
Subject: Re: [Btech] Engines....Hmmmm.
Organization: Computer Science, Concordia University, Montreal, Quebec
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 13:48:43 GMT

In article <1993Jan24.132444.19747@husc3.harvard.edu> ender2@husc8.harvard.edu (Matt Ender) writes:
>In article <1jsa4jINNfma@cobra.cs.ubc.ca> edmonds@cs.ubc.ca (Brian Edmonds) writes:
>>Seems to be a decent reason.  My question is:  is there a simple 
>>formula that given the engine rating you can calculate the tonnage?  
>>This would be very nice to work into the mech design spreadsheet (sc) I 
>>made.  Also, is there a simple formula for the internal structure 
>>points? 
>
>If you're on a spreadsheet, I'd recommend using table lookup -- just
>put the values off on the side somewhere, and use sc's equivalent of
>123's @VLOOKUP to nab the appropriate values.  There is a formula that
>someone posted a long time back, but I don't remember it, and I think
>a few weights come out half a ton off.
>
>-- Matt

Does anyone want my spreadsheet ? WK1 format is ugly, as I use a lot of
colors to help with visualisation. Ie anything in light blue is
"editable".

	XLS, WK1 and Mesa format are available.


+---------------------------------+   ___     ___       ___
| Stephane I. Matis               |  /   \_BATLLETECH  /\__\ Viva NeXT! 
| E-Mail : kgnome@cs.concordia.ca |  \___/   \___/     \/__/ NeXTSTEP 3.0!
| "It Just Works..." - Steve Jobs |      \___/   
+---------------------------------+       Wolfnet Operative & NeXThead
From: edmonds@cs.ubc.ca (Brian Edmonds)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mecha
Subject: Re: Arrow IV mech and spotter
Date: 21 Jan 1993 17:11:28 -0800
Organization: Computer Science, University of B.C., Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: cobra.cs.ubc.ca

bradleah@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (II Andrew Bradley) wrote:
>		Death Rain
>Tons: 100
> [ ... ]
>Center Torso		62	    N/A		28
>R/L Torso		42	    42		22 each
What happened to the rule (page 113, sec 11) that the armour in any 
location canot exceed twice the amount of internal structure for that 
location? 

>Arrow IV		Rt		15	15	3 tons/Rt      10
>Arrow IV		Lt		15	15	3 tons/Lt      10
Hmm, how'd you get that many crits into a torso?

[ Rules references from the Battletech Compendium (1640) ]
Did I miss some earlier rules modification?

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian Edmonds (MSc CompSci)                            edmonds@cs.ubc.ca
Xref: sparky rec.games.mecha:1347 rec.arts.anime:30016
From: cs_b173@ceres.kingston.ac.uk (Hotchkiss F G)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mecha,rec.arts.anime
Subject: Re: Robotech vs. ?
Date: 22 Jan 1993 16:16:56 -0000
Organization: Kingston University, Kingston-upon-Thames
NNTP-Posting-Host: ceres.kingston.ac.uk

Newsgroups: rec.games.mecha,rec.arts.anime
Subject: Re: Robotech vs. ?
Organization: Kingston University, Kingston-upon-Thames


In article <1jl9pdINNhuf@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu> probe@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Prabal Nandy) writes:
>   Two things, really...... First, the Shields of the Enterprise must lose
>energy whenever anythng hits it. This counts as meteors, asteroids, ship
>debris... and missiles... and lasers.
 
In the outrageous okona episode, it is made quite clear that lasers are no 
threat to the NCC 1701-D.  Compared with "modern" phasers, lasers do such a
small ammount of damage that it can be continually repaired ad infinatum.

>   If this were not true, then these things would pass through the shield
>unabated... since the Enterprise always raises shields whenever some star is
>giving off too much Radiation, or whenever they're going through a debris
>field, etc... I'll assume that the shields DO block these things.

This is what shields were originally designed for, to stop dangerous
radiation and asteroids.  Yes, they do have a combat function, but that was 
only realised and added after the first few hostile encounters.  Remember, 
Star Fleets mission has always been primarily exploration.

>   Another point to keep in mind is that I don't think that the Enterprise's
>main weapons (Phasers) can't target small, rapidly moving targets
>(Veritechs)... Certainly several HUNDRED veritechs weaving about and firing
>their full compliments of missiles can easily Dodge 15 phaser arrays (Fired
>by an officer who couldn't hit the backside of a Borg Cube... Ok, so he DID
>hit the backside of a Borgcube, but he was aiming for the Front side!)

You say that you're an SFB veteran.  If the SDF 1 can launch two VTs at a
time every two impulses, how many will it have in the air before the
photon torpedoes hit?
Perhaps the daedalus manoeuvre?

Captain Caffeine, the man without sleep.

Organization: Freshman, CIT general, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.mecha
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 15:15:02 -0500 
From: Robert Everett Brunskill <rb6t+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Shadowboxing

In article <30333@castle.ed.ac.uk> emeu09@castle.ed.ac.uk (Mech Eng
Student) wri
tes:
>
>I have not actually read the rules for shadowoxing (I can't unzip) just
the art
icles posted to the newsgroup but it srikes me that it ought to be
virtually imp
ossible to dodge a laser, travels a the speed of light y'know.  I quite
agree wi
th the ability to dodge other weapons however not even the clan pilots
have fast
 enough reflexes to avoid a laser IMHO.
>
>TTFN
>Roderick Easton

I can't consistanly unzip either.  Just thinking, but it seems that it
would be more likely to dodge an arm mounted weapon or a mech turning
toward you and firing, simply because the pilot would see the weapon
moving to point at them.  Whereas torso mounted weapons of a mech facing
you offer no such advantage.

Rob Brunskill
From: jrob@ecst.csuchico.edu (Gillis the Humble)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mecha
Subject: Re: Ral Partha on 2750 'mechs
Date: 25 Jan 93 17:09:17 GMT
Organization: California State University, Chico
NNTP-Posting-Host: flambe.ecst.csuchico.edu

>perhaps Ral-Partha thought that the two technologies called for larger  
>miniature sizes. well, that's just an idea if you want something to tell  
>others as far as why those miniatures are bigger.
>
I Don't think that's it.  I think it's because Ral is getting lazy....

They just aren't making miniatures as good as they used to....

				Cable
From: shyeah@wam.umd.edu (Orange Beef)
Subject: Robotech vs ?
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 03:25:51 GMT

	Ok, enough arguements about who would win vs SDF-1 and the
good old enterprise (either the new one or the old one[like I remember their
numbers either])  The SDF-1 was unreliable...the main cannon would not fire,
no fold systems...so why compare the 1st model(the SDF-1) to a more tested
and varied ship(Enterprise)  Get a real comparison...
	The SDF-3 vs the New Enterprise...both tested and reliable!
Who would win? Of course the SDF-3...2 MAIN CANNONS! 4 Rail Cannons,
over 2000 mech's, and other nasties that could cause trouble for the
Enterprise...plus the SDF-3 has the barrior shield and pin-point barrior...
The fold system works too...So why compare the old compare the almighty
SDF-3 will ya...8)

...sig..what sig? I'm a Robotech fan...I dont need no sig...

Newsgroups: rec.games.mecha,rec.arts.anime
From: cmeadows@nyx.cs.du.edu (Chris Meadows)
Subject: Re: Robotech vs. ?
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 93 16:52:04 GMT

In article <1k4rjoINNna@shelley.u.washington.edu> avalon@stein.u.washingt
n.edu (Prince Charming) writes:
>In article <1993Jan25.064844.19351@midway.uchicago.edu> arp2@midway.uchi
ago.edu writes:
>>>
>>>One of the things that bothers me is when Worf does miss an "easy shot
 when
>>>the plot demands it. It could be done another way. Threaten the Captia
, beam
>>>in and ambush him, etc. One question to the above idea though...... Th
 veritech
>>>couldn't enter though an airlock, it is much to large. The only place 
hat it 
>>>could enter would be the shuttle bay. Assuming they did board there, t
ey would 
>>>have to abandon thier fighters because the hallways/turbo lifts aren't
adapted
>>>for anything that big either.
>>>
>>>Avalon
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>How about entering through a hole they blast in the hull, and then maki
g
>>on the spot alterations to the hallways in order to accomodate their 
>>prodigious size.  It really wouldn't be much of a problem.
>>
>>-Andrew Polis
>
>I see....first they take down the deflector shields with weapons that do
't
>have the power. Then they breach the hull or the shuttle bay doors with 
hose
>same weapons. THEN they they take down the security array (force fields 
nd
>computer controled phasers) against which they have no listed defenses o
her
>than good looks. O.K., Andrew, got it!! ;)
>
>Avalon
>


First the SDF-3 sends in Vindicators/Shadow Alphas, which knock out
the deflectors.  Then the Betas debark teams of Cyclone Riders to
blast through the bulkhead doors and get through to the bridge.
Their armor will protect them from the phaser arrays for as long
as it takes to blast the emitters with their minimissiles.  Then
the Enterprise is theirs!

--
Chris Meadows  | Robotech/RIFTS/Palladium fanfic author/editor                  
CHM173S@SMSVMA | They Might Be Giants about Star Trek aliens:                   
CHM173S@VMA.SMSU.EDU   | "Everybody wants prosthetic foreheads                  
CMEADOWS@NYX.CS.DU.EDU | on their real heads!"                                  
Newsgroups: rec.games.mecha
From: arp2@ellis.uchicago.edu (andrew robert polis)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mecha,rec.arts.anime
Subject: Re: Robotech vs. ?
Date: 23 Jan 93 10:05:15 GMT
Reply-To: arp2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago


What's all this talk of pinpoint barriers, guys.  Let's not forget that those
little suckers were replaced with a full barrier shield that can withstand
the might of several hundred lasers, missels, etc bfore overloading.
And if it does overload, it just wipes out everything in sight (entire
Zentradi armada) leaving the SDF-1 completely undamaged (except for a few
people in engineering).  
   Since we all know the enterprise has wimpy firepower compared to Zentradi
warships, it couldn't possibly damage the SDF-1.  And if Geordi managed to
modify the phasers so that they could overload the barrier, it would just
explode destroying the enterprise.  So, the SDF wins unless the enterprise
runs away.

-Andrew Polis
Newsgroups: rec.games.mecha
From: kgnome@cs.concordia.ca (MATIS stephane)
Subject: Re: Question for Stephane or anyone who can answer....
Organization: Computer Science, Concordia University, Montreal, Quebec
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 13:55:40 GMT

In article <1jvutfINNcm3@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> as298@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Stephen E. McGinnis) writes:
>
>To Whom Ever Knows The Answer......
>My local game store owner/comic store owner asked me if I had heard
>why FASA had sold all sales rights of the novels to ROC. By this I
>mean....they are no longer available to the game distributors that
>he has been able to get said items before, and they told him they 
>could no longer get them because of FASA's contract with ROC that
>ROC has taken to mean that they can sell only to major book distributors
>instead of game distributors. This seems to me to be totally ignoring
>a whole area of sellers and buyers in that these people can't get
>the books to sell to those who really are interested in the game.
>Does anyone else agree with this? I just feel that this is another of
>the many situations that FASA has dropped the ball. Another such item
>is the fact that FASA has sold the rights of all of the Mech Centers
>and the technology being developed for the simulators to Disney Corp.
>No longer a FASA product they are now Disney property. How long do
>you think they will remain BattleTech related products. Just my 2 
>cents worth....if anyone knows the answers to these let me know.

	I quoted everything to make sure whoever read this will get the
whole story.

	Alright, I'll go for an official answer from FASA, but let me
point out a certain number of things.

	1. ROC made deals with many game companies to print and
distribute their novels. This cut costs, expanded the audience and gave
the authors more money. (Probally lots more)

	2. My game store receives the new novels without a hitch...
which means that your game stores' supplier is being "stuffed" by his
supplier ...

	3. Disney Corp, to my knowledge, has nothing to do with FASA.
The truth seems to be that Shamrock, the holding company of the Disney
FAMILY has got an arrangement with Virtual  Worlds Inc., FASA's sister
company. I belive Tim Disney himself is now on the board of directors in
a position of some sort.

	4. All in all, these things are good for FASA ... IMHO.

>Stephen
>
>-- 
>Stephen E. McGinnis      My name...Inigio Montoya...
>418 MacArthur            You killed my father...
>College Station, TX      Prepare to die...
>        77840                    Princess Bride


+---------------------------------+   ___     ___       ___
| Stephane I. Matis               |  /   \_BATLLETECH  /\__\ Viva NeXT! 
| E-Mail : kgnome@cs.concordia.ca |  \___/   \___/     \/__/ NeXTSTEP 3.0!
| "It Just Works..." - Steve Jobs |      \___/   
+---------------------------------+       Wolfnet Operative & NeXThead 
Xref: sparky rec.games.mecha:1354 rec.arts.anime:30027
From: debasish@engin.umich.edu (Debasish Mishra)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mecha
Subject: re: SDF-1 vs. NCC1701-D
Date: 21 Jan 93 19:09:16 GMT
X-Received: by usenet.pa.dec.com; id AA13866; Thu, 21 Jan 93 11:09:29 -0800
X-Received: by inet-gw-2.pa.dec.com; id AA21355; Thu, 21 Jan 93 11:09:26 -0800
X-Received: from marina.engin.umich.edu by srvr2.engin.umich.edu (5.64/1.35)
	id AA23680; Thu, 21 Jan 93 14:09:24 -0500
X-Received: by marina.engin.umich.edu (5.64/1.35)
	id 5db3fd4bb.001a914; Thu, 21 Jan 93 14:09:16 -0500
X-To: rec.games.mecha.usenet


Ok. whoever wrote this is wrong on SDF-1  specs:

>Now, 50 km away, the enterprise watches the main gun devastate >everything in 1000 miles of EMPTY SPACE.

>Once the LRMs and main gun are gone, the SDF-1 has nothing that >can reach over 2000 miles from the ship. 2000 miles is ROCK >THROWING range for the 1701. Game ov
>er, insert next challenge.


[DAMN EDITOR!] 
The Main Gun on SDF-1 is 60,000 MILES. The Enterprise would be toast at anything
less than 100,000 km. Second, 2000 km is within easy range of most onboard
weapons and Veritechs, whose max speed is MACH 4.3 (approx. 4000 km\hr)

I'm writing fan-fic on this... I intend to be fair to both Enterprise and SDF-1.
Look for it tomorrow as I forgot the disc today... :(

debasish@engin.umich.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.mecha,rec.arts.anime