HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hleaves@gems.vcu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.vectrex
Subject: Re: Emulator for whatever
Date: 20 Dec 92 17:19:26 GMT
Organization: Medical College of Virginia

In article <BzDBxE.7t7@javelin.sim.es.com>, blgardne@javelin.sim.es.com (Dances With Bikers) writes:
> pashdown@javelin.sim.es.com (Pete Ashdown) writes:
> 
>>WHO CARES what platform you write it for?  Just make the source available so
>>we can put it on our individual platforms.  If you think you need a 40 mhz 486
>>to emulate a 1 mhz 6809, think again.
> 
> More to the point, why bother? The Vectrex is self contained, and has
> that nice handle on the top, so why not just lug it to where ever you
> want to play? 
> 
> Unless of course the answer is "Because it's there".  :-)
> -- 
> Blaine Gardner @ Evans & Sutherland  blgardne@javelin.sim.es.com  BIX:blaine_g
> 580 Arapeen Drive, SLC, Utah 84108           Favorite road signs:
> Dumper of Dirtbikes #46             FJ1200   Winding Road Next 77 Miles
> My other motorcycle is a Quadracer           Caution: Passing Areas Not Marked

Maybe I want an emulator because I don't have a Vectrex. It would be nice to be
able to play Vectrex type games on my non-Vectrex system.

-- 
*******************************************************************************
** Hugh L. Eaves                      ** Internet: hleaves@ruby.vcu.edu      **
** Medical College of Virginia        ** Bitnet: hleaves@vcuruby             **
** Department of Human Genetics       ** Voice: (804) 371-8754               **
***************** All non-incendiary communication welcome! *******************
Newsgroups: rec.games.vectrex
From: davewt@NCoast.ORG (David Wright)
Subject: Re: Emulator for Amiga?
Organization: North Coast Public Access *NIX, Cleveland, OH
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 18:56:28 GMT

In article <2917@tau-ceti.isc-br.com> jimc@tau-ceti.isc-br.com (Jim Cathey) writes:
>CC's are so different), byte sex, and word alignment.  Since the 6809
>and 68K series have similar CCR's and the same byte sex, both problems
>should be reduced quite a bit.  And, if you can require a 68020 or
	Exactly.
>Of course, raw CPU emulation is the easy part.  The I/O environment
>is where all the real problems lie.  A CPU-refreshed vector display
>is nothing at all like a hardware-refreshed raster display.  Sound's
>even worse, probably.
	Which is why I said that an Amiga emulator running on a 7.1Mhz machine
would be possible, due to the custom chips for sound and graphics. And running
on the lowER end (not the lowest) 1200 machine you have either a '020 or '030
instead of a measly 68000. The point of having the CPU basically free to
emulate the other CPU and execute the code, and not have to be fiddling with
the graphics and sound is pretty important on a machine like the Vectrex.


						Dave


Newsgroups: rec.games.vectrex
From: Bob_BobR_Retelle@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: rec.games.vectrex
Subject: Re: FOR SALE: Vectrex & Star Trek cart: $100 OBO.
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 92 10:23:15 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1992Dec19.082550.5700@gn.ecn.purdue.edu>

Mark Raymond expressed surprise at the cost of a used Vectrex..
 
Well, one way to look at it is that an original 1965 Ford
Mustang cost around $2999..  if you can find one in excellent
shape today, you can expect to pay more than double that..
 
The Vectrex indeed sold for $69-$99 when it was new, but try to
buy one now, at any price...
 
If you want a 1965 Mustang badly enough, you end up paying the
price..
 
Think of your Vectrex as a good investment, Mark...!
 
                                                            :)
BobR
From: jimc@tau-ceti.isc-br.com (Jim Cathey)
Newsgroups: rec.games.vectrex
Subject: Re: Emulator for Amiga?
Date: 17 Dec 92 21:25:13 GMT
Organization: ISC - Bunker Ramo, Spokane, WA

In article <ERIC.92Dec17125327@iceland.telebit.com> eric@telebit.com (Eric Smith) writes:
>Also, software simulation of a 6809 is not appreciably easier on a 68000 than
>on an 80x86.  Based on the results I have obtained from simulators I have
>developed and optimized, I doubt that a 7.14 MHz 68000 could achieve better
>than 15% of the performance of a 1.5 MHz 6809.

The CP/M simulator I wrote was about a 1.2-1.5 MHz equivalent on an 8 MHz
68000 (if I remember correctly), which is roughly 1/3 of the speed of
Z-80 systems it was trying to emulate.  Without a doubt, the slowest parts
were condition code emulation (because the 8x and 6x approaches to
CC's are so different), byte sex, and word alignment.  Since the 6809
and 68K series have similar CCR's and the same byte sex, both problems
should be reduced quite a bit.  And, if you can require a 68020 or
greater the alignment problem goes away as well.  I should expect the
speed of a simulation to at least double by getting rid of these,
more help comes from the fact that 68020's are faster anyway.  My
guess is that you should be able to match the CPU speed (or get pretty
close) of a Vectrex with any 68020+ system you cared to use.

Of course, raw CPU emulation is the easy part.  The I/O environment
is where all the real problems lie.  A CPU-refreshed vector display
is nothing at all like a hardware-refreshed raster display.  Sound's
even worse, probably.

>As an example, the program "II in a Mac", which is an Apple II simulator for
>the Macintosh, is a fairly well-written 6502 simulator.  On a 7.83 MHz 68000
>in a Macintosh Plus it operates at between 40 to 60% of the performance of a
>real Apple II.  The 6502 is a much simpler processor than the 6809, and is
>much easier to simulate efficiently.

Byte sex and alignment problems here too, but at least the CCR is similar.

-- 
+----------------+
! II      CCCCCC !  Jim Cathey
! II  SSSSCC     !  ISC-Bunker Ramo
! II      CC     !  TAF-C8;  Spokane, WA  99220
! IISSSS  CC     !  UUCP: uunet!isc-br!jimc (jimc@isc-br.isc-br.com)
! II      CCCCCC !  (509) 927-5757
+----------------+
			One Design to rule them all; one Design to find them.
			One Design to bring them all and in the darkness bind
			them.  In the land of Mediocrity where the PC's lie.
Newsgroups: rec.games.vectrex
From: blgardne@javelin.sim.es.com (Dances With Bikers)
Subject: Re: Emulator for whatever
Reply-To: blgardne@javelin.sim.es.com
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corporation
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 20:08:01 GMT

pashdown@javelin.sim.es.com (Pete Ashdown) writes:

>WHO CARES what platform you write it for?  Just make the source available so
>we can put it on our individual platforms.  If you think you need a 40 mhz 486
>to emulate a 1 mhz 6809, think again.

More to the point, why bother? The Vectrex is self contained, and has
that nice handle on the top, so why not just lug it to where ever you
want to play? 

Unless of course the answer is "Because it's there".  :-)
-- 
Blaine Gardner @ Evans & Sutherland  blgardne@javelin.sim.es.com  BIX:blaine_g
580 Arapeen Drive, SLC, Utah 84108           Favorite road signs:
Dumper of Dirtbikes #46             FJ1200   Winding Road Next 77 Miles
My other motorcycle is a Quadracer           Caution: Passing Areas Not Marked
From: lunatic@netcom.com (Lunatic Johnathan Bruce E'Sex)
Newsgroups: rec.games.vectrex
Subject: Re: Emulator for whatever
Date: 18 Dec 92 09:33:49 GMT
Organization: Netcom; Renegade User


    ]-[ow about some hardware person "simply" wiring up a plug-in
 interface for the Vectrex that takes the place of the cartridge
 and allows use of the Vectrex as a display device?  Then write
 your OWN games on whatever host system you have, using all the
 memory and other resources that you want.  The interface could
 double as a way to dump the binaries of the games in the archives
 into the Vectrex so that they could be played as normal.

-- 
   _______________________________________________________
  /         -= Lunatic Johnathan Bruce E'Sex     (:      /
 /  lunatic@netcom.com  GEnie: LUNATIC  CI$: 76170,672  /
/______________________________________________________/
From: exuhag@exu.ericsson.se (James Hague)
Newsgroups: rec.games.vectrex
Subject: Re: Emulator for whatever
Date: 17 Dec 92 21:01:40 GMT
Reply-To: exuhag@exu.ericsson.se
Organization: Ericsson Network Systems, Richardson, TX
X-Disclaimer: This article was posted by a user at Ericsson.
              Any opinions expressed are strictly those of the
              user and not necessarily those of Ericsson.

Pete Ashdown writes:
>
>If you think you need a 40 mhz 486 to emulate a 1 mhz 6809, think again.

The 6808 isn't the problem, it's the other hardware.  Emulating
"simple" systems like the Vectrex and Atari 2600 can require a
surprising amount of CPU power.

In general, I have trouble understanding the need for emulators
of old systems.  The charm of the Vectrex comes from the vector
screen, the joystick, the self-contained cabinet, etc.  Putting
Vectrex games on a boring PC is blasphemy IMO.

If you just want a certain Vectrex game on your PC, with
improvements, then write your own version.  It would probably
be easier to write it from scratch than to worry about an
emulator--plus you could make the game more "PC friendly"
and use the entire screen, etc.  Or better yet, if you just
like the style of the old vector games better than current
games, write a new game which continues the tradition of
that form of entertainment.

--
James Hague   
exuhag@exu.ericsson.se
From: hleaves@gems.vcu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.vectrex
Subject: I want to write an emulator, need specs.
Date: 14 Dec 92 00:42:05 -0400
Organization: Medical College of Virginia

As nobody has responded to the request for a vectrex emulator program, I would
guess that there probably isnt one. However, it does sound like an interesting
(and fun) project. If someone can tell me where I can get a good copy of the
tech. specs for the system, I would like to attempt to write an emulator. It
might not be possible, but I can't tell unless I see the specs for the system.
Of course I'll write it in C so it will be portable. Is C good for graphics? Or
maybe BASIC would be better. :) Who cares if you need a 486/66 processor to run
it! Seriously, if someone can tell me where to get the specs, I could sit down
this christmas vacation and get a good start on it.

Thanks,
Hugh

-- 
*******************************************************************************
** Hugh L. Eaves                      ** Internet: hleaves@ruby.vcu.edu      **
** Medical College of Virginia        ** Bitnet: hleaves@vcuruby             **
** Department of Human Genetics       ** Voice: (804) 371-8754               **
***************** All non-incendiary communication welcome! *******************
Newsgroups: rec.games.vectrex
From: lionel@cs.city.ac.uk (Lionel Tun)
Subject: Re: Emulator for Amiga?
Organization: City University, London
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 14:57:36 GMT

In article <24351@galaxy.ucr.edu> kevin@cassandra.ucr.edu (Kevin Lund) writes:
>In article <1992Dec9.200015.25259@city.cs> lionel@cs.city.ac.uk (Lionel Tun) writes:
>>In article <ByyKzq.Ix3@phage.cshl.org> boutell@isis.cshl.org (Tom Boutell) writes:
>>>Someone told me a vectrex emulator has been written for the Amiga. Assuming
>>>it was done in C, not assembly, I'd be interested in porting it to the
>>>PC. Are the sources available?
>>
>>I would be surprised if a PC were powerful enough to emulate
>>a Vectrex.
>>
>
>I really don't see a problem with an emulation.  Lets say a 33 mhz 486
>(yeah, pretty big PC but what the heck...).  Now, how many lines per
>second do you figure that could draw?  Well, in the Dec. 92 Dr. Dobbs,
>an algorithm is given to draw 2.2 million pixels per second worth of
>lines onto a standard VGA display; at 30 screen updates per second,
>that's 73K pixels worth of lines per screen.  Well, it's in the ballpark
>at least, and 15-20 fps would probably be acceptable.  Also, bear in
>mind that a standard VGA card is very slow; the article's author stated
>that this was the limiting factor in the routines.  So, figure a local
>bus VGA and you're set...
>
>As for emulating the Vectrex's CPU...well, fast Z80 emulations have been
>done, which is again in the ballpark.  People in comp.sys.cpm would know
>better, but somebody said that their Z80 emulator is several times as
>fast as their Z80 based machine.  So lets say we could do it, running
>flat-out, at 10 mhz (worth of simulated processor speed).  But we only
>need what, 1 mhz?  So we're in like flynn!
>
>Sound is of course another issue, but I'd be pretty happy even without
>sound.  Other practical considerations would be aspect ratio and
>controls, but hey, life is rough...

Yes. What I really meant was, if you're going to emulate the Vectex,
don't bother messing around with PC's, go straight to an Amiga and
forget the headaches.

--
  ________  Lionel Tun, lionel@cs.city.ac.uk  ________
 / /_  __/\       Computer Vision Group      /\ \__  _\
/___/_/_/\/ City University, London EC1V 0HB \ \___\_\_\
\___\_\_\/        071-477 8000 ext 3889       \/___/_/_/
Newsgroups: rec.games.vectrex
From: lunatic@netcom.com (Lunatic Johnathan Bruce E'Sex)
Subject: Re: Joystick question
Organization: Netcom; Renegade User
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 10:46:43 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.172653.26224@qualcomm.com> medwards@qualcom.qualcomm.com (Matt Edwards) writes:
>
>A follow up on the joystick question -
>
>I tried the coleco joystick in the game this morning.  I had to carve 
>the plastic end with a knife to make it fit in the slot as the ends
>aren't excatly the same. 
>
>I tried playing mine storm, and it worked - kind of.
>
>Joystick up - hyperspace
>Joystick left - fire
>Joystick right - thrust
>Joystick down (nothing)
>
>Buttons on left and right side - nothing
>
>Keypad - Turns the ship to the right (or left?  I don't remember)
>
>Well, it ALMOST worked!  It gives me some hope at least that it might
>be wired somehow to work correctly?  I'll have to consult my
>elerctronic genius friends.  *grin*
>
>Tony


    \_/
     |ou obviously haven't read my "How to Convert an Atari Joystick
 to Work with the Vectrex" file.  It's in the archives.  In it I detail
 the steps necessary to reconfigure an Atari joystick (which is just a
 bunch of switches, inside) to work as a second controller for games
 that can be played on the keypad exclusively (Armor...Attack, Rip Off,
 and Star Castle).  The Coleco joystick sends out identical signals for
 the joystick motions as an Atari joystick, but if you look inside and
 compare it to an Atari joystick you'll see that it cannot be easily
 reconfigured the way the Atari joystick can.  The Vectrex uses an
 analog joystick, so you'll never be able to get the Coleco (or Atari)
 joystick to work as a replacement for it.

-- 
   _______________________________________________________
  /         -= Lunatic Johnathan Bruce E'Sex     (:      /
 /  lunatic@netcom.com  GEnie: LUNATIC  CI$: 76170,672  /
/______________________________________________________/
From: corsair@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (Gregory Pius)
Newsgroups: rec.games.vectrex
Subject: I WANT YOUR VECTREX!
Date: 16 Dec 92 15:36:23 GMT
Organization: Cybernet BBS, Boca Raton, Florida

Hey!

Does anybody out there want to get rid of an old, dusty, rusty (or perhaps
even broken) Vectrex system and cartridges?

I'll buy it off you and even pay the shipping (what a guy).

Please email me at:

greg@metrolink.com

------------
Gregory Pius * Account Manager * METRO LINK INCORPORATED
Home of the FASTEST X-SERVER IN THE INDUSTRY: 100,000+ XSTONES!!!!
____________
Newsgroups: rec.games.vectrex,alt.games.video.classic
From: zippy@cs.brandeis.edu (Patrick Tufts)
Subject: Re: FOR SALE: Vectrex & Star Trek cart: $100 OBO.
Keywords: vectrex for sale sell
Organization: Brandeis University
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 18:40:45 GMT

I've also seen Vectrex machines for $40-$45 with $5/cart.

You just have to go to flea markets.  Net folks drive the prices up
beyond the normal market value.

--Pat
Newsgroups: rec.games.vectrex
From: khetsah@uwo.ca
Subject: Vectrex for sale or trade 
Organization: Relayed-by-Sendmail
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 19:05:15 GMT
To: rec.games.vectrex@julian.uwo.ca



Vectrex for sale or trade

Vectrex with 9 new unused cartridges and service manual

$200 + shipping.

Will trade for 150-200 Meg SCSI or IDE drive
or 8 Megs of 1Mx9 70ns SIMM's
or Something like the MT-32 Roland sound module,
or 2024, 1950, 1960 monitor.
Will consider other trades, but cash price is firm


Newsgroups: rec.games.vectrex
From: fred@dickens.com (Fred R Stearns)
Subject: Re: International Computer GO Congress
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 02:45:40 GMT
Organization: Dickens Data Systems, Inc.

In article <2933476141.1.p00174@psilink.com> "Andrew W. Buchanan" <p00174@psilink.com> writes:
>I'm sending out this post for any information on the International Computer
>GO Congress they have every year (the big $1.6 million prize contest).
>Specifically, I'm trying to find out the exact rules used in this
>competition. (Scoring, etc.)
>Any information would be greatly appreciated.
>					Thanks,
>					Andy Buchanan
>
Please post the answer.

-- 
Fred R. Stearns -- fred@dickens.com
Everything's a kludge!
From: xp02@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (XIAOFENG PAN)
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Subject: Re: naming conventions
Date: 17 Dec 92 18:07:07 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

In article <1992Dec15.160850.15149@ncsa.uiuc.edu>, rbrown@ncsa.uiuc.edu (Rich Br
own -- Neither) writes:
>In article <8454@public.BTR.COM> rem@public.BTR.COM (Robert E. Maas  rem@btr.co
m) writes:
>play resembles the brush-stroke -- Go and calligraphy were once linked closely
>in ancient China, regarded highly as 2 of 3 fine arts...  I forget what the
>third one was... poetry, I think).  Specifically, a _hane_ is a diagonal play
>
>Gozilla [2k]
>--
>Rich Brown (Neither)
>rbrown@ncsa.uiuc.edu
>
I think go is among the 4 fine arts regarded highly in Ancient China.
1. Music 2. Go 3. Calligrahpy 4. Painting

-panx
From: jansteen@cwi.nl (Jan van der Steen)
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Subject: Re: Komi for small boards
Date: 12 Dec 92 11:20:39 GMT

dif@bhprtc.scpd.oz.au (David Faulkner) writes:

>>> I've read that a komi of 5.5 points is reasonable for a 19x19 game;
>>> but this seems too large for smaller boards.  What makes sense
>>> for boards like 13x13 and 9x9?

>The value of the first move is greater on a smaller board, but also,
>5.5 points on a 9x9 board is worth more than 5.5 points on a 19x19.
>Wouldn't these balance out to some extent?

You made a good point:

According to Nagahara sensei, 6p from Japan, the komi on 9x9, 13x13 and
19x19 is all about the same value of 5.5.

The 5.5 komi on 9x9 seems justified judging from several games played
by professionals on this board size. If there is any interest I can
post two of them played between Go Seigen and Hashimoto Utaro somewhere
in the first half of this century.

Jan van der Steen
-- 
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
     Jan van der Steen                 jansteen@cwi.nl
     Centre for Mathematics and Computer Science (CWI)
     Kruislaan 413, 1098 SJ Amsterdam, The Netherlands
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
From: michael@eichow.tuwien.ac.at
Subject: Vienna Open Go Tournament 12-14 March 1993
Reply-To: michael@eichow.tuwien.ac.at
Organization: Tech. University Vienna, Dept. of Computergraphic
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 09:59:09 GMT

Hello!

Since it is hard here in europe to advertise tournaments, i do so here.

Vienna Open Go Tournament 1993
Friedrich Susan Memorial


Mode:
  Five round tournament Mac Mahon System, open to all players.
  Time limit 75 minutes per player with 5.5 komi.
  Instead of byo-yomi a variable overtime system (London system) will
  be used: After using up time allowance, the clock is reset to 
  20 moves in 10 minutes, then 20 moves in 5 minutes, followed by
  30 moves in 5 minutes until the game is ended. Time failure results
  in a loss.

Tournament Fee:
  ATS 140.- (approx US$ 14.-)

Prices:
  1st place: ATS 5000.- (approx US$ 500.-)
  2nd place: ATS 3000.-
  3rd place: ATS 1500.-
  for others with 5 wins: 350.-
  addidional priced available.

Schedule:
  Fr, March 12:  16:00 - 17:00 Registration
                 18:00 Opening
                 18:30 Round 1
  Sa, March 13:  10:00 Round 2
                 14:00 Round 3
                 17:00 Round 4
  So, March 14:  10:00 Round 5
                 13:00 Closing and Prizegiving

Venue:
  Bezirksvertretung Wien XIX
  Gatterburggasse 14
  A-1190 Vienna
  Austria/Europe

Smoking:
  not permitted in the playing area

Accomodation:
  A limited number of places is available at the 'Jugendgaestehaus der
  Stadt Wien', ATS 140,- per day for bed and breakfast (two bed and
  four bed rooms).
  Hotel price list available on request.

Entry form:
  please email to go@eichow.tuwien.ac.at
  mail to:
    Dr. Alfred Kriegler
    Scheibelreiterg. 12
    A-1190 Wien
    Austria

cut here -----------------------------------------------------------------

   I wish to enter the Vienna Open Go Tournament 1993 - F. Susan memorial
   12-14 March 1993 Vienna
 
   Name:
   Address:
   email:
   Tel:
   Club:
   Strength:
   [ ] accomodation at the Jugendgaestehaus
   [ ] Hotel price list

cut here -----------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: rec.games.go
From: wft@math.canterbury.ac.nz (Bill Taylor)
Subject: Re: Chinese counting
Organization: Department of Mathematics, University of Canterbury
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 01:39:49 GMT

>It is only the abbreviated play mode that tries to end a game when
>there is `no doubt' about all stones' status that causes difficulties.

Yes, that's it exactly. The "abbreviated play mode" is quite a good phrase.

It happens in several standard games, and is a real pain and often a
distortion. Sometimes it's caused by impatience (as with western go-players),
and sometimes by an obsession with elegance (the traditional Japanese view);
and sometimes by misplaced politeness. (This last is seen in the mediaeval
desire to warn a chess opponent before actually capturing his king; this has led
to the unnecessary concept of "check" and its miserable corollary, stalemate).

Go doesn't quite have anything so much against the spirit of the game as 
stalemate at chess, but the Japanese rules are an unfortunate move in that 
direction.

( Then there's my other pet peeve: the off-side rule in soccer !  Same again ! )

>only territory free of opponent's stonesis counted.  
>Perfect for computers and mathematicians.

Yeah, right.  But not bad for go players, either !

--------------------------------------------
Bill Taylor.       wft@math.canterbury.ac.nz 
Bill Trylor. q e  rwft@maih.casterkury.aa.n! 
Tiel Tryloco quer rwst@maihuc sterkesy.ga.n!
ThelwTryd co quer rwsi@mvihus strikesy.gain!
The world conqueror sig-virus strikes again!
--------------------------------------------
From: s9874203@titan.ucc.umass.edu (s9874203)
Subject: Re: Chinese counting
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 16:09:26 GMT

In article <BzD8HM.Kr0@news.cso.uiuc.edu> jzg1795@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Jialin Zhong ) writes:
>
>
>I remember I was told that they counted stones for each side plus half stone
>for each group. Because of the way of counting, fight was implicitly 
>encouraged. If you looked at the ancient Chinese games, there were usually
>quite a few groups separated for each side. I guess Mr. Masaki (not zhuge
>masaki) will be in big disavantage for his style.
>
>Jialin
>

I think things should be contrary to what you said. By old Chinese
counting, you have to GIVE one stone for each of your groups. Therefore
ancient Chinese Go players like center because it is likely to have more
groups if you go for corner. In this sense, I think Mr. Takemiya will be
in advantage. However, this counting system has been discarded long time
ago.

bn 2k
Newsgroups: rec.games.go