From: bcoleman@hayes.com (Bill Coleman)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: When is a CLI faster than a GUI?
Date: 29 Sep 92 11:34:40 EDT
Organization: Hayes Microcomputer Products, Norcross, GA

In article <tx_pmng.marquis@netcom.com>, marquis@netcom.com (Roger Marquis) writes:
>>> |> I find a heavy reliance on point and click menus to be insulting to
>>> |> my intelligence.
>>> 
>>I think this is a reaction to the psycological reality that the graphic
>>interface takes less cognitive effort than a CLI. QED.
>>
>>Really. It is like their subconcious is saying, "Hey, this is easy. That's
>>not right. Using a computer is supposed to be hard. This must be childish.
>>I'm insulted."
> 
> Bill, You really know how to come up with them don't you!  This
> explanation is pretty out there.  I guess it's easy to come up with
> self serving hypotheses if you're not in touch with reality.  

Roger, I don't think this is so far-fetched. Examine the anti-graphic UI
postings. On several occasions I've seen the vitrolic term "pretty icons."
There seems to be some kind of association between "easy" and childish.

People have preconceived notions of what certain experiences are supposed
to be like. If you spend years using a CLI, you'd get the impression that
using a computer takes a large portion of your attention. When suddenly
confronted with a computer interface that takes very little attention, people
react. Some react positively, some reject it as "childish." I think this
reaction has more to do with fundamental personality types.

> In other words I disagree.  The reason I find it insulting is that the
> programmer has clearly ignored the desires of users who would prefer
> to use the keyboard.  He is assuming that users are not capable of
> remembering what options they wish to select and force them to pull
> down the menu to select an option.  

In your original posting, you weren't specific. The Apple Human Interface
Guidelines has a comprehensive list of command key equivalents. As a very
experienced Mac user, I get pissed off about programs that don't do such
simple things as command-O for open and command-W for close. I get really
annoyed with programs that use command-key equivalents in non-standard
ways (like when command-A isn't Select All. THINK Pascal. Grrr).

When the command keys aren't present, they cause a minor delay, since 
nothing happens. Then you have to fall back on the "old way" of doing
things with the mouse. This isn't so bad.

When the command keys are defined in a non-standard way, then you end up
doing something you didn't want to in the first place. This makes you
paranoid. You have to carefully ask yourself before pressing each command-key,
"is this the right one, or is it something non-standard?" It slows you
down, and there's no cure for it. (Whereas the truely annoyed can change
the command-keys with ResEdit)

On this point I agree. Consideration should be made for the keyboard
bound user. Arrow keys, extended keyboard keys and the like should be
supported where they make sense. Tabbing between fields, proper dialog
dismissal, and even dialog button shortcuts are highly recommended. Of 
course, there are some things in the MacOS that will have to be done with
the mouse regardless. You can't elminate the mouse, but you can be
accomidating to the keyboard user.

That single aspect, however, doesn't make the MacOS insulting to your
intelligence.

> It's like WordPerfect asking "Are
> you sure you want to quit" when you just selected 'File' 'eXit'.  

File / *EXIT* ? This is a Mac program? Mac Programs use File / Quit. 
And the shortcut is command-Q, not X. This sounds like an example from
that *other*, not so well thought out graphic interface that attempts
to imitate the Mac. (Poorly) They have no standards. What do you expect?

Around here, we term such dialogs as "road blocks." They get in your
way each time. It is one thing to ask a user "Do you want to save the
work you are going to lose" dialog when he quits with unsaved changes.
But to gratuitiously ask "Are you sure ?" every time is unnecessarily
annoying! ARGH!

I can think of an example from the FLEX OS. (Early microcomputing OS
for the 6800 and later 6809) This CLI required you to fully type the
name of a file you wanted to delete: "DELETE FRED.TXT". It would
then come back with the question "Delete FRED.TXT ?" To which you would
invariably answer "Y" (for yes) since you had to type in the entire file
name in the first place (no wildcards). Now, it would not delete the
file just yet, but ask you again "Are you sure ?" Of course you would
answer "Y" and the file would be deleted.

The amusing thing happened if you answered "N" to the second question.
The OS would respond with "I thought so" and exit. Cute programming. Bad
interface.

> The programming is assuming that you need help every step of the way and
> are likely to make a mistake if given too many options.  Pleeeasee.

I agree. It sounds like a poorly conceived interface. Programming efforts
should be applied to streamlining the user's task, not pandering to him.

-- 
Bill Coleman, AA4LR                ! CIS: 76067,2327    AppleLink: D1958
Principal Software Engineer        ! Packet Radio: AA4LR @ W4QO
Hayes Microcomputer Products, Inc. ! UUCP: uunet!hayes!bcoleman
POB 105203 Atlanta, GA 30348 USA   ! Internet: bcoleman%hayes@uunet.uu.net
Disclaimer: "My employer doesn't pay me to have opinions."
Quote: "The same light shines on vineyards that makes deserts." -Steve Hackett.

Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy