From: young@alw.nih.gov (Jeff Young)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.animals
Subject: Re: Wolves vs Men
Date: 6 Apr 92 15:15:25 GMT
Organization: National Institutes of Health, Bethesda, MD


jy> 1) Simply hearing the noise of a gun is enough to scare a deer 
jy>    away.  Deer have no need to know that a gun is lethal from a 
jy>    distance.  Deer don't know the difference between a human with a 
jy>    gun or a human without a gun - unless by scent.  They know the 
jy>    human shape, the human scent, and threatening movement.  They 
jy>    will also make eye contact - if they do and you move a muscle - 
jy>    even blink, they're gone.  

Is deer eyesight sufficiently keen for them to make eye contact from 
a distance?  How could they detect eye blinks, yet not be able to
determine that a human has a gun "unless by scent" ?  

	I don't believe that a deer has the ability to conceptualize
	a gun.  I doubt that a deer could be made to fear only those
	humans with a weapon.  A gun looks like a branch from a tree
	and to a certain extent so does my bow.  A gun does not smell
	like anything else in the woods.  I could easily believe that
	deer are conditioned to the smell of a gun (they smell one
	and often hear a loud noise).  Take for instance, that success-
	ful hunters do not chew gum, smoke, wear cologne, etc.

jy> 2) Two deer walk into the woods.  The first is more experienced 
jy>    with the sights, sounds and smells of man, the second is not.  As 
jy>    soon as the first detects the presence of man, it freezes, points 
jy>    its ears on high, lifts its neck so as to get a better look 
jy>    around and a better smell of the air.  Seeing this, the second 
jy>    deer imitates the behavior.  If this is a false alarm, the first 
jy>    deer will lower its head and continue to browse, if not, it will 
jy>    bolt.  If it bolts, you can be sure that there is something or 
jy>    someone in the area.  As the first bolts the second will follow.  
jy>    The second has had enough time to take in the same stimuli as the 
jy>    first, and therfore, learns by example what is to be avoided in 
jy>    the woods.  

Perhaps, but if the sound of gunfire is the key stimulus, how do 
you account for the claim made by Mike Linan that deer are more 
"fearful" at the conclusion of hunting season than at the beginning.
It seems to me that deer, like horses, would become desensitized to
the sound of gunfire with regular experience.
	
	The difference is "they don't shoot horses."  Deer are the
	targets, horses are the transportation.  To illustrate, my
	dog will hunt all day for me. He will stand on a bird to
	wing and shot.  Were I ever to take a shot at him and he
	knew it, he would probably not hunt with me and perhaps
	anyone else, again.  Fear of gunfire is a problem with hunting
	dogs, in some cases they need only associate the gunfire
	with something unpleasant in a single experience and may 
	take years to get over this fear.  

	Gunfire is a stimulus, not the key stimulus - I didn't mean
	to suggest that it was. 

	Mike is right, I hunt regularly before the start of gun season.
	I never hunt during or directly after gun season (unless I find
	a large parcel of private land on which firearms are not allowed).
	The deer are far too wary during and after gun season.  Their
	movements are limited and occur pre-dawn or after dusk.  

-- 
Russell Lawrence, WP Group, New Orleans (504) 443-5000
russ@wpg.com   uunet!wpg!russ


--
___________	
	jy
	young@heart.dcrt.nih.gov
Newsgroups: talk.politics.animals