From: clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu)
Subject: Re: Asian <> Asian-American
Organization: Nynex Science and Technology
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 13:08:52 GMT

In article <1992Jul27.164536.7505@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com> maridai@ecs.comm.mot.com (Marida Ignacio) writes:
>Ok, since this is SCAA, what am I doing here?  I am a Filipino (thus, Asian)
>and should not be sticking my nose in this newsgroup, right?  NOT.

  You're Asian, right?  You live in America, right? 
  So go ahead, stick your nose in.

>This is so because, my kind is referred to here from time to time (maybe,
>more than a few times) that I figured, I must express an Asian point of view,
>my way (rather than let somebody put words into my mouth.)
>
>I have read threads here that discuss, in a sarcastic and in an intentionally
>vicious, prejudicial contempt mode, the separation between Asians and Asian-
>Americans.  There has been effort too to identify the borderline kinds with
>Nth generation classification.

  Funny, the only vicious, prejudicial contemptous mode posting have to
  do with a certain barbaric culture.  Although there is a point in that
  genetics != culture.  So if you believe that, you'll see that AAs are
  not culturally Asian.  The Nth generation classification is just a handy
  way of telling how far separated you are from your ancestor's culture.
>
>To those who are prejudiced against Asians just because they are N>2nd
>generation Asian-American, let me tell you this:
>
>1]  Without your Asian ancestor who came here in America, you wouldn't even
>    be born here at all, pinheads.  I am not demanding too much for you
>    to stick with me.  I don't need you.  I came here and have been going
>    through adjustment by myself, I don't need your constant whining to
>    worry about besides my own.

  Okay, so you're dealing with living in America, too.  You're going
  through adjustment.  Tell us some more about your own worries.  Don't
  you think it's relevant to being an Asian in America?  Or is it just
  generic human stuff and totally unrelated to being Asian.  In the latter
  case, you don't need us.
>
>2]  For those Asian-Americans who do not want to associate themselves with
>    Asians for reasons that include forcing America to *see* the difference
>    between As and AAs and to consistently live and adopt this attitude:
>    "Ah, there's an American, all right (referring to AA)" and "Ah, he/she
>    is Asian..." - I am very much in favor and would even be proud of my
>    ancestry than be associated with an AA who is *ungrateful* and
>    *prejudiced*.                                        

  Those who don't want to associate with Asians usually find that Asians such
  as yourself REJECT them for not being Asian (or insert ETHNIC since Asian Asians
  don't think in terms of Asian, but rather Chinese, Korean, Filipino, Vietnamese)
  at the same time "Americans (nonAsian)" keep trying to force AAs into the
  same category as yourself.  Can you explain why an European immigrant, say
  Katarina Witt is "welcomed to America" and immediately claimed by Americans
  whereas a 4-5th generation American who happens to have Japanese ancestors
  is still said to be "Our Japanese"?  Is it logical to expect Koreans and
  Japanese to want to associate with each other just because they look the same?
  So why expect 5th generation JapaneseAm to associate with Japanese immigrants
  just because they look the same.  The reason America has to be forced to
  see the difference is that to most people, yourself included, genetics==culture,
  and when two people look alike, they must think alike, and act alike, and
  feel alike.
>
>3]  For those AAs who worry because even at N>2nd generation, they still
>    have features or evident traces of Asian ancestry in their looks -
>    wake up and go down to earth.  You are too superficial, you do not
>    have any calcium (confidence) in your bones as to feel ashamed of how
>    you look and let this be a prime factor in *facing* others.  You are
>    too shallow as to perhaps, because you yourself, judge others by their
>    looks.  "Attitude covets attitude." " Do not do unto others what you
>    wouldn't want others to do unto you."  You look at yourself and America
>    *this way* and America waves the same look at you.  You practice
>    prejudice, and I say it is a form of racism - being prejudiced of the
>    Asian race, and America (and the world) becomes *psychic* and feels
>    prejudice towards you too.

  We happen to be proud of our features and looks.  Sorry, buddy, try again.
  We just don't like to be judged by our looks.  Again you're too naive
  if you believe for a minute that America (and you probably mean nonAsian America)
  does not judge you by your looks.  If America did not judge people by looks,
  then explain the enslavement of Blacks, explain the genocide of Native
  Americans, explain the internment of Japanese Americans during WWII,
  explain the Jim Crow laws and segregation.  I guess you think the Blacks,
  Native Americans, and Japanese brought it upon themselves by hating their
  own looks.  Those slave traders must have been *psychic* to select only
  the self-hating ones.  Those Indian-killers must have had *psychic* bullets
  that found their way only to the hearts of those who hated their own looks.

>
>    You do have a *big* attitude (psychological) problem.  The point is,
>    you contribute *a lot* to how others would look at you and I tell
>    you, isolating yourself from Asians is not a solution to your problem.
>    You are, (not Caucasoids, Negroids, other Aborigines) nobody else's,
>    your own responsibility.  So, grow up and do yourself a favor by doing
>    your part of the bargain.  *There may not even be an offense intended
>    for your defensive attitude and remarks.*  Maybe then others (other
>    race) will accept you for yourself if you accept yourself for what
>    you are first (unless you really despise yourself that is why you
>    want to identify with another race).

  Nobody said to isolate themselves from Asians.  In fact most of us do
  not go around asking people what generation they are just to pick and choose
  who to isolate from.  In my experience we AAs happen to associate with
  many more people than a recent immigrant who tends to stick in their own
  group.  So what's wrong with having friend who are "Caucasoids, Negroids, and
  other Aborigines"?  I happen to identify with the HUMAN race.  I don't see
  what's so bad about that.  We AAs also have Asian friends that cut across
  ethnic lines.  I don't see that among recent immigrants.  At Cornell there
  were 5 Chinese-ethnically related clubs, and never do they mix.  As an
  AA I cut across all of them, as well as the international students, and yes,
  white & Black & Hispanic & mixed-raced Americans, too.
>
>4]  You make a big deal about the question "Where are you from?", all
>    because you want to oblige America to stop being intimidating and
>    *force the hope* that *that* question will just mean where did you
>    live previously and *not* what is your ethnicity.  You are just wasting
>    too much effort on very trivial issues and the problem with this
>    effort is it in turn creates a storm that disturbs and destroys
>    instead of actually being constructive.  In short, you cause bad
>    commotion.  (Haven't you realized yet, Dear Abby is playing upon this
>    kind of bad commotion - what for? for intrigues and publicities -
>    to keep the column up.)

  Okay Marida.  Let's reverse roles.  Let's suppose that I'm a White American
  who has immigrated to the Phillipines.  I have kids there that are Filipino.
  When people ask me where I"m from, I'm happy and proud to say America.
  That was the homeland I knew and loved as a child.  What if there was a
  big anti-America feeling in the Phillipines, and everywhere my kids went
  people blamed them for everything America did.  My kids speak fluent Tagalog,
  don't speak English, except maybe a little bit at home, and have all
  Filipino friends.  Yet everytime an American flag burns in a protest,
  they get chased home by gangs of Filipinos yelling anti-American slogans.
  Then my grandchildren are born, and sent to a concentration camp because
  the Phillipines is at war with America over the naval and air bases.
  Just because my grandchildren, (and some of them have Filipino blood),
  are light-skinned and have a last name Smith, they are treated like dirt,
  even as they join the Filipino Army to fight against America, their wives
  and children are interned in a concentration camp.  Meanwhile British
  and French Filipinos were buttons saying, "I'm British, NOT American",
  "I'm French, NOT American".  Then you wonder if my grandchildren want
  to be called Filipino or American?

  More realistically, do you still call Filipinos with Spanish ancestry,
  Spanish or Filipino?  Do you still associate them with Spain?  Do you
  go up to a lighter skinned Filipino and ask them "Where you from?"
  or comment, "My my, your Tagalog is excellent."
>
>5]  You label yourselves like a commodity (i.e. rice: long grain, short
>    grain, etc.).  You brand yourselves; put yourselves into profiles, etc.
>    This kind of attitude is very contributory to racism.  I'd rather
>    not contribute to the conflict (or division).  Instead of shouting
>    "Racist, racist!"  (you even call each other this too, that is why
>    it can never stop or subside.  BECAUSE YOU KEEP BRINGING IT UP!),

  In my dreams, I wish that if I never brought up racism, it would disappear.
  Wow, shut my eyes, bury my head in the sand, if I refuse to see it,
  acknowledge it, hear it, speak it, it doesn't exist anymore.
  If we could only do this for all the world's evil.

>    chill-out and say, "So, you've got preferences.  (I wouldn't even bother
>    to ask why unless I want to make a mountain out of an ant hill) I've
>    got mine too.  I guess everybody does as an individual."  Deep inside,
>    believe this and respect this existing in everybody.

  Above you say you don't want to contribute to racial conflict.
  Next you say you accept preferences and respect its existence in everybody.
  Okay, very pragmatic.  If we all accept racism, and preferences, then
  it'll just stay the ant hill it is.  No big deal.  Everyone's got
  prejudices.  You've got yours, I've got mine.  Only what if my prejudices
  stand in your way?  Then what?  What if I'm prejudiced against everyone
  whose name starts with an M and thinks that they should die?
  I guess you'd just chill out, as I put a bullet through your head.
  Hey, I've got a right to my prejudices.  <sarcasm above>
>
>Well, about the *ones* who call themselves *kings* and *queens* of the land,
>don't worry.  They too will have their time to wake up and realize what
>they are missing down here on earth.  But don't make it too much *your*
>responsibility to force them.  Worry about more important matters other
>than making America treat you as equal or someday, put you on a pedestal.
>(This shows you sublimating.)  Is that all what life is worth to you?

  Yeah, but the *kings* and *queens* don't usually wake up unless forcibly
  dumped off their pedestal.  Like life's so good, why wake up?  Do you
  think the *kings* and *queens* of South Africa would voluntarily give
  up their positions of privilege?  Do you think ANYONE would voluntarily
  out of the goodness of their hearts give up being *kings* and *queens*?
  Every emperor, dictator, despot in history had to be forced out by the
  people they oppressed.  Did Marcos leave because he woke up and realized
  that he was missing down here on earth? 

  Okay, we shouldn't worry about trivial matters such as being treated as
  an equal.  No, our AA lives are not worth it even to ourselves.  That's
  your prescription?  If being treated as equals isn't important, then
  what is?  Or do you prefer to just find yourself a niche as pampered
  pet of the kings and queens, and to hell with the rest of the masses.
  That must be your more important matter.
>
>P.S.  The above is addressed to AAs who are prejudiced against Asians only.
>      I did not do this to start a thread or a flamewar.  Like most who 
>      post, I too would just like to express my own opinion.
> 

  Good.  My opinion differs from you.  And don't consider it a flame because
  it isn't.  I too am just expression my own opinion.


Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american