From: u9148043@cs.uow.edu.au (Justin Jay Lister)
Subject: Re: Oh my God! Help my friend not buy an IBM!
Organization: Dept of Computer Science, Wollongong University, Australia
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 05:06:55 GMT

x90wardell@gw.wmich.edu writes:

>In article <1992Nov11.104630.10722@mercury.unt.edu>, west@ponder.csci.unt.edu (Bruce West) writes:
>>>>In article <1992Nov9.200117.27089@cs.olemiss.edu>, skip@cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls) writes:
>>>
>>     Still assuming you the have the afore mentioned system.  First, Amiga
>> blows away the sound blaster pro card - but screw sound...it's not really
>> important.  The 030 beats the 386, the 040 beats the 486 - fact.  The mz.
>> rating on the motorolla chips is about 15% faster than the comprapable
>> Intel chip.  Amiga techies - come back me up  here.  So that is your
>> "raw computing power".  
>>     Now your reference to animation and multitasking is laughable!  The Amiga
>> *is* multitasking.  The IBM does *NOT* premtive multitask - period.  The
>> IBM does not use special coprocessors - period.  To name a few of the
>> revolutionary video and animation devices for Amiga only.... one word,
>> Toaster.  In terms of 24 bit hi-res scientific analysis check out thenew
>> GVP card.
Nah give vivid as an example.. 8)

>	Let me bring you back to Earth now.  Strange a CS major would
>not know that any computer is CAPABLE of preemptively multitasking.  Even
>the commodore 64 could have if it had the OS for it.  Of course, it
>is unlikely that with 64k it could have been done but the point is made.
>	OS/2 preemptively multitasks just as the Amgia does. 

I don't think it is exactly the same, but yes it can multitask its processes,
It does't have co-processors getting every other clock tick.

>	Furthermore, my graphics card DOES have a coprocessor so my
>graphcis ARE coprocessed which is why I can do animation.  Do you even

ahhh but it is stealing the cpu isn't it, whereas ours isn't!

>have a video toaster?  The video toaster exists for the PC by the way.
>As for 68040 vs 486, do you have a 68040?  Only the amiga 4000 comes with
>a 68040 and its 25mhz.  I have never seen anyone with an Amiga 4000 (they

You haven't heard there is acclerator cards available for any amiga to have
an 040! sorry. False the 4000 only comes with an 040, have you heard of the
3000T/040 ? Besides there are many users out there with 500's 2000's and 3000s
that have 040 cards - I imagine there are even some with 040 600's.

>are still new granted) but my statement was about any Amiga setup I have
>seen and the best Amiga I have seen/used is a 3000.  It is also a long

One can sit down and use a computer and say that is pathetic, for a real
experience one has to do more than sit down for 1/2 an hour.

>and fruitless debate to shoot whether the 486 is faster than the 040 or
>not.  I think the motorolas are better than intels, no doubt about it.

>						-Brad



>> 
>>> 
>>>>	By the way, what is "Cutting" edge to an Amiga user?  Multimedia?
>> 
>>     The cutting edge of computers is pretty well-defined.  Integrated systems.
>> Multimedia, Virtual Reality, user-friendly, object oriented, whatever you
>> wanna call it.  It's the quest for the "unifying theory of computing" if you
>> will.  Some system so incredible it will permeate all walks of life.
>> 
>>>>	I think perhaps our difference in opinion is lack of experience.
>>>>It appears you haven't spent a lot of time with IBMs equipped to the max
>>>>and I will concede that I probably haven't seen Amigas equipped to the
>>>>max.  I will say this however, this machine here is certainly superior
>>   
>>    I'm at an IBM campus.  I use 486s everyday.  I am forced to program on
>> them in many classes, including the asm level.  So I think I understand
>> the machine and it's capabilities.  The more you learn the more you wonder
>> how Intel ever sold a chip with such backward thinking.  3 generations of
>> chips to get to flat memory - Christ!
>> 
>>>>to any amiga I have used in terms of speed, workablity, graphics,
>>>>and multitasking.  I am not familiar with that Amiga 1200 and I have
>>>>not used teh Amiga 4000 however.  Keep in mind though, you can buy
>>>>machines like mine now for under $2000.
>> 
>>    You don't have one of those hacked up 486s do you?  Now those are sad.
>> Can you say bottleneck?  Waste of power?  knew ya could.  4000 blows away
>> all the current clone PCs and IBM OSs.               
>> 
>>>>	And before you go out and call IBM users "lame" or "boring"
>>>>or wahtever.  Think how you feel when IBm users come on and say "Go
>>>>play with your lamo toy."  I know most Amiga users get quite offended
>>>>when somene wrongly calls the Amiga a "toy".  To call IBMs "lame"
>> 
>>    I'll be the first to concede that IBM has much better wp and spreadsheet
>> software.  But then again there arn't alot of video title out for BetaCam -
>> but I don't think production studios are gonna sell theirs ;)  That's how
>> IBM get's it's "boring" reputation...as well as the lack of decent animation.
>> And the Amiga gets it "toy" image for the same reasoin - great sound and
>> graphics.
>> 
>>>>and basing it on the old IBM XT or something (which you didn't do but
>>>>you have seen it on this conference) is pretty offensive too.  Unless
>>>>someone here happens to have an IBM compatible with 16 megs of ram,
>>>>OS/2 2.01, Coprocessed 24bit video and also has an Amiga, I don't think
>>>>people should say that the Amiga "blows" away clones as a general
>>>>statement.  There are too many clones out there with too many options.
>>>>One could say "Amigas blow away the typical clone setup." and I wouldn't
>>>>argue with that.
>> 
>>     I say Amiga blows away clones because the Amiga can do anything a clone
>> can do - and more.  With any option.  You add a 24 bit card - I'll add a
>> better 24 bit card.  You add a sound card, I'll add a DSP.  You get OS/2  
>> I have AmigaDos3.0.  Every step of the way I win.  That's my point.
>>     Besides, I must make an ideological point - since you are a EE. The
>> Amiga has and always will be the "hackers" computer in my view (hacker in
>> the true sense of the word).  Much like my old Apple ][+.  Anyone
>> remember double-hi-res on the Apple.  We just pulled it out of our ass!
>> That's the type of machine the Amiga is.  The Toaster, where the hell does
>> a product like that come from and cost under a k to make?!?  AmigaLand.
>> The Amiga is a computer of potential and product.  The users take it
>> to its limits.  You buy a Mac, you have a mac, that's it.  You buy a clone,
>> you have an Intel chip surrounded by the cheapest parts guys like me and you
>> could find - all put together.  You buy an Amiga (later models), you have
>> a streamlined, NTSC compatable (big plus for CS graphics),premtive     
>> multitasking system with the most creative consumers (hackers).  These hackers
>> are the real key to Amigas success and will be the key to its continued
>> success.
>> 
>>>>							-Brad
>> 
>> Ciao....
>> 
>>                                                               - Jason
>> 
>> 
>> 
-- 
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