From: davem@uvmark.uucp (Dave Meeks)
Subject: Re: Jordan >= Magic && Bird
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 15:47:46 GMT
Organization: Vmark Software, Inc.

In article <1992Aug27.190856.6592@rti.rti.org> wgr@rti.rti.org writes:
>In article <1992Aug26.213743.16703@uvmark.uucp> davem@uvmark.uucp (Dave Meeks) writes:
>
>One thing people always seem to overlook is that Bird's teammates also made
>*him* better.  Dennis Johnson was a great player before he ever teamed up
>with Bird.  For several years Kevin McHale was easily the best low post
>player, and one of the top five players overall, in the league.  He and Bird
>made *each other* more effective.  Larry could sit out there 22 feet from the
>hoop with Kevin posted up and Bird's man would be in a quandry over whether
>to double down.  If he (or someone else) didn't, McHale would surely score
>(hell, he'd even score against the double team); if he did double down, Larry
>would drain the set shot.

Good point in some respects. DJ was a great player before he teamed up.  When
he finally made it to Boston, he wasn't nearly the player he had been.  No
more AllDefensive 1st teams, no more AllNBA teams, no more playoff MVPs, etc..
His point production and steals went down with the Celtics, though his assists
went up (with people like Bird, McHale, etc.. no wonder).   As for McHale
helping Bird, in some ways, but remember that McHale may have been the 
originator of the term "black hole".  He never passed out, even when double
and triple teamed.  What made him great was that he still scored when double
and triple teamed.
>
>On the other hand, Horace Grant is a good player, but I don't see how he
>makes Jordan much better.  I guess he's good at going to the hoop without the
>ball when Jordan drives and the opposing power forward comes over to help out.
>Michael's unlikely forays to the hoop might get embarrassing if he couldn't
>bail out with a pass to Horace for the slam, but Grant doesn't have much of
>a post game.  Jordan's penetration makes Horace a *much* more effective
>offensive player.  Pippen helps out by making sure the other team can't just
>concentrate on Michael, but compare Jordan's teammates with Bird's teammates
>of the '80s and I think it's clear that Boston had a lot more talent.

Horace helps Michael out in the fact that he is a very good offensive rebounder
and great at getting the feed and putting it in.  This makes life easy for
Mike, as he knows when he goes to score that if he gets caught in the air,
he can pass itoff to Horace, or if he shoots and misses, Horace may just get
it back.  Jordan does help Horace more than Bird helped McHale though.  
But, look at Pinckney and how much better he looks with Bird on the floor, or
Dee Brown, or Gamble, etc..  It is clear however, that Bird did have more 
talented people around him.  
>
>So I'm not arguing that Jordan is a better than Bird was, but I think it's
>hard to determine who was superior at making his teammates better.  In my
>opinion, Bird's teammates would have been better than Jordan's even if they
>hadn't played with Bird.

Good point...
-- 
David T. Meeks                    ||" We are jigsaw pieces, aligned on the 
VMark Software, Inc.              ||  perimeter edge, 
uvmark!davem@merk.com             ||  interlocked through a missing piece"
davem%uvmark@merk.com             ||" ...This world is totally Fugazi"