HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: minsky@media.mit.edu (Marvin Minsky)
Newsgroups: sci.cryonics
Subject: unpublished chapters of "The Turing Option"
Date: 26 Sep 92 22:20:43 GMT
Followup-To: comp.ai.philosophy
Organization: MIT Media Laboratory

I have archived two unpublished chapters of "The Turing Option" by
Harry Harrison and Marvin Minsky, published by Warner Books, August
1992.  Use  
  ftp wuarchive.wustl.edu  (and then login with name "anonymous")
  cd doc/minsky
  get option.chapters

These chapters have a lot of far-out ideas about how to build a
humanlike machine. Harry Harrison and I have been longtime friends.
One day he said that he liked my book 'The Society of Mind' and
suggested that the ideas could reach a larger audience if I wrote a
version in the form of a novel.  When I said I didn't have the talent
for that, he offered to collaborate.  We decided that the central
character Brian would be a mathematical super-hacker of the future who
would build the first AI with a human-like mind. Harry drafted the
action plot, and I suppled the technical stuff. While our hero is
building his robot (in the year 2023) he is shot in the head by
mysterious criminals who steal the prototype.  This lets us explain
computational aspects of the theory in the context of repairing
Brian's brain, while also explaining psychological aspects in the
context of reconstructing his childhood memories.

A co-author does not have complete control.  These FTP chapters are
part of the text I wrote that did not make it into the published book.
Both Harry and the editor at Warner thought they would slow down the
story too much.  At the time I disagreed, but now I think they were
right.
Xref: sparky sci.cryonics:578 news.answers:3227
From: ibacon@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Ian Bacon)
Newsgroups: sci.cryonics
Subject: Life extension info ?
Date: 28 Sep 1992 19:15:32 +0800
Organization: The University of Westrn Australia
NNTP-Posting-Host: uniwa.uwa.edu.au
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

I have heard a little about life extension. Can anyone suggest a recent
book that explains the current state of research, or even better, can
someone tell me if there is an online repository of life extension info.

Thankyou in advance.
Newsgroups: sci.cryonics
From: kqb@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (kevin.q.brown)
Subject: Future need for cryonics
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 22:55:52 GMT
X-Crossposted-To: cryonics mailing list

    ------------------------ Forwarded Message ------------------------

> Date: Sat, 3 Oct 92 10:35:52 CDT
> From: Brian Wowk <wowk@ccu.UManitoba.CA>
> Message-Subject: CRYONICS: Future need for cryonics

Keith Henson:
 
> Brian, I worked the numbers recently and I think I came up with a 
> very rough doubling time of three years for suspension patients, 
> which is roughly the same as the number who are signed up.  For 
> 500 by the turn (of the century) you are projecting a factor of 20
> in under 8 years, and another factor of 20 in the next ten years.   
 
        My projections were based on the exponential fit to membership 
growth over the previous four years published in the April 1992 issue of 
Cryonics, which gives an annual growth rate of 33%.  At this rate we 
will have 500 patients in 10.5 years (I did say "near" the turn, not 
"by" the turn), and 10000 patients in 21 years.
 
> The end of cryonics (not last out, but when people quit going in) 
> is harder to project, but interest in nanotechnology is growing 
> rapidly, as is the money spent on things which contribute to 
> progress in this area.  Current projections by those most 
> knowledgeable (which everyone admits are just informed guesses) 
> centers around 2013.  That would give us 21 years or about 7 
> doublings--in round numbers about a hundred times the current 
> number of 25.  Delay nanotech by another six to eight years, and 
> you do indeed get to 10k patients.
 
        Keith, I really don't understand what you are saying here.  Are 
you suggesting that there won't be any degenerative, terminal diseases 
left in 21 years?  There is just no way this is going to happen.  If we 
had mature nanotechnology TODAY it would still take decades to figure 
out how to apply it to problems as complex as aging.  Medical 
conservatism and FDA foot-dragging alone ensure this.   
 
> Re cerebral ischemic injury, I would assume that even fairly 
> early nanotechnology would be up to keeping your heart going. 
 
        A beating heart won't do you much good when your blood supply is 
on the pavement instead of your vessels after an automobile accident.  
Traumatic injuries will ensure a large supply of suspension patients 
throughout the 21st century.  Only a comprehensive redesign of the 
central nervous system to make it immune to ischemic injury will solve 
this problem.  I confidently stand by my prediction that the number of 
patients in suspension will peak at over a million.  
 
                                                --- Brian Wowk     
Newsgroups: sci.cryonics
From: kqb@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (kevin.q.brown)
Subject: Re: verification of suspensions
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 22:13:58 GMT
X-Crossposted-To: cryonics mailing list

    ------------------------ Forwarded Message ------------------------

> From: hkhenson@cup.portal.com
> Message-Subject: CRYONICS
> Date: Mon,  5 Oct 92 03:04:10 PDT

Sigh, it is 2:30 in the morning, and I just got back from an Alcor 
board meeting after 7 hours of driving.  But, Daniel Hitt asked a very 
legitimate question.

>That is, what auditing procedures (for the bodies, not just the finances)
>are done?  Are there independent auditors?

You need a little history to understand why this is such a touchy 
point.  The Cryonics Society of California failed in the late 
70s-early 80s, taking half a dozen patients into irreversible loss. 
Many Alcor policies and customs to prevent another such failure stem 
from that time.  Alcor is as open as possible in regard to members (or 
other interested parties) inspecting the dewars, the logs of liquid 
nitrogen added, invoices and paid checks for liquid nitrogen, and the 
like.  

>After all, the dewars are opaque (i suppose), and if one were suspended,
>one might not want one's dewar to be opened for a stranger to inspect.

They are opaque indeed.  But, with the lid off, you can see down under 
the LN2, and at least count the patients.  The whole body patients are 
in sleeping bags to prevent warming up (and fractures) when they must 
be transfered from dewar to dewar.  The head-only patients are 
protected by aluminum cans, which can also be counted.  There is, by 
the way, a fairly elaborate published record (by patient number) on 
almost all of the patients. 

>If there are no auditors, how can a cryonics organization both
>promise privacy to the suspendees and also prove to
>potential clients that is keeping frozen bodies, and will keep theirs?

While the two are in conflict, we manage the best we can.  You are 
welcome to visit almost any time at the Alcor facility in Riverside, 
California.

Keith Henson  Member of the board
Newsgroups: sci.cryonics
From: pete@cssc-syd.tansu.com.au (Peter Alexander Merel)
Subject: New Scientist article, 26 September
Summary: Morton Schatzman writes article hostile to cryonics in New Scientist
Keywords: Hostile article
Organization: Customised Software Solutions Centres, AOTC
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 03:06:41 GMT

I don't know how many folk here have seen this article, but it should
be readily available so I'll refrain from extensive quotes. The basic
gist is that cryonicists are ignoring the established biological facts, or 
fantasizing about something called nanotechnology, which is rhetorically
dubbed "science fiction".

The article covers the basic facts about Alcor, describes Thomas Donaldson's
situation, and gives a treatment of the cryonicist mindset, but salts that
liberally with zero-sum and lunatic fringe themes. If finishes by suggesting 
that cryonic suspension is " ... an unusual and expensive way of disposing of 
dead bodies".

It seems that Schatzman did interview people at Trans-time and Alcor, and 
faithfully transcribed some of their literature. The fact that he gets some 
of this information out is probably useful. Unfortunately the emphasis he 
gives to tissue degradation and the lack of information about nanotech make 
the article counterproductive - folk who read it should find cryonics more 
difficult to accept than folk who do not.

And, yes, he trots out the 'hamburger into beef' thing. Phrases like that 
are too tempting for a journo to pass up. I've always like the letter 
analogy, but 'hamburger into beef' is snappier than that. Cryonics is 
crying out for a little political phrase like that.

It is probably worth writing a reply to Schatzman - a few hundred letters
won't make that big a dent in New Scientist's editorial opinion, but if we
save one benighted letter column browser then it would be worth it. The life 
you save may save your own. Hey, that ain't bad. Not as good as hamburger 
into beef, but not bad ... Um, how about "shit into shinola" ... Nah ...
"Rage, rage againt the dying of the light" ... too arty farty ... "I am
the resurrection and the light" ... now that's catchy. I give it a seven. You
can dance to it.

-- 
Internet: pete@cssc-syd.tansu.com.au   UUCP: {uunet,mcvax}!munnari!cssc-syd!pete
Snail: 1/18-20 Orion Road, Lane Cove NSW 2066 Australia    Phone: +61 2 911 3130
Theftright Peter A. Merel (T) 1992. Rights to all replies, followups, originals,
sources and anything else I can get my hands on reserved.
Newsgroups: sci.cryonics
From: kqb@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (kevin.q.brown)
Subject: "Anti-Freeze" Protein
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 22:31:37 GMT
X-Crossposted-To: cryonics mailing list

    ------------------------ Forwarded Message ------------------------

> Message-Subject: CRYONICS ACS Science News September 92
> From: edgar@spectrx.Saigon.COM (Edgar W. Swank)
> Date: Fri, 02 Oct 92 07:24:34 PDT

SCIENCE REPORT
[Reprinted from the September 92 Immortalist]
 
The New York Times reports that DNA Plant Technology Corp of
Cinaminson NJ, a biotech company specializing in developing foods that
stay fresh longer, has utilized genetic engineering to duplicate an
"anti-freeze" protein that winter flounder produce to block ice
crystals from forming.
 
Anti-freeze proteins are produced naturally by fish that live
inextremely cold water.  The proteins block ice crystals by fouling up
the orderly geometry of ice seeds.
 
Dr.  Jon Bedbrook, executive VP of DNA Plant Technology says the
crystals develop when water molecules accumulate and freeze on a tiny
particle that serve as a seed for the ice.  However, the molecules
settle down only if the can accumulate on one another in neat lines
and rows.  The anti-freeze proteins prevent that by attaching to a
first layer of water molecules and creating a surface that is too
irregular for other molecules to accumulate.
 
Although scientists have known about anti-freeze proteins for years
they had remained little more than a curiosity as extracting
commercial quantities from Arctic fish would be prohibitively
expensive.
 
The new protein however, can be produced by simply splicing the gene
into yeast, bacteria and plants.

--
edgar@spectrx.saigon.com (Edgar W. Swank)
SPECTROX SYSTEMS +1.408.252.1005  Silicon Valley, Ca
Newsgroups: sci.cryonics
From: kelvinp@crchh447.bnr.ca (Kelvin Porter)
Newsgroups: sci.fractals
Subject: Fractal Oscillator Circuitry
Keywords: Fractal VCO Oscillator Circuit
Date: 5 Oct 92 23:44:29 GMT
Organization: BNR, Inc.

I remember, way back in the early days of 'Strange Attractors', seeing an article
(written I believe by University of Texas Non-Linear Dynamics Professors)
which mentioned capacitors that exhibited chaotic characteristics...
It may have been in the Springer-Verlag "Intelligeneer"?????

My question is can direct me to reference(s) regarding chaotic circuitry or better
yet post ASCII schematics?

I'm intrigued by the possibility of making voltage controlled oscillators with
chaotic properties for making music (a synthesizer with Voltage Controlled
Chaos-cillators, if you will).  I would also be interested in digital implementations
as well.

Please post your responses to sci.fractals; I'm not sure I can receive external
mail.  Thanks for your assistance.

Regards,

Kelvin R. Porter

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I do not speak for BNR.
Newsgroups: sci.fractals
From: sdyck@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Sheldon Dyck)
Subject: Xfractint where is it?
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 23:31:24 GMT


Does anybody know where I can get the executable for Xfractint 
ver 106?  I've found the source but I can't get it to compile 
in SunOS. Thanks in advance.


+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+
| Sheldon Dyck    <sdyck>                     | 58 Pincarrow Road         |
| Department of Mathematics,                  | Winnipeg, Manitoba.       |
| University of Manitoba.                     | Canada,  R3Y-1E3.         |
| e-mail: sdyck@ccu.UManitoba.CA              | (204)-488-6990            |
+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+
Newsgroups: sci.fractals
From: dusan@sooner.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Dusan Doliak)
Subject: Does anyone know e-mail of prof.Chui
Reply-To: dusan@sooner.b17a.ingr.com
Organization: Intergraph Corp. Huntsville, AL
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 14:19:00 GMT

or Marian Neamtu, which is working at Vanderbildt uni. Nashville, I think,
their work has something common with fractal integral transformations.

Thank						Dusan Doliak
From: vpatel@athena.cs.uga.edu (Viren Patel)
Newsgroups: sci.fractals
Subject: Looking for Fractint for DOS machines
Date: 29 Sep 92 00:44:04 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens

Hello fellow fractal enthusiasts. I have two questions:

1. What is the latest version of Fractint for DOS machines?

2. Where can I get this latest version? Ftp sites would be useful.

Thanks in advance.
From: edgar@function.mps.ohio-state.edu (Gerald Edgar)
Newsgroups: sci.fractals
Subject: Re: Edgar's "Classics on Fractals"
Date: 2 Oct 1992 08:26:41 -0400
Organization: The Ohio State University, Dept. of Math.
NNTP-Posting-Host: function.mps.ohio-state.edu

In article <BvGHHH.5KL@math.uwaterloo.ca> rdblack@neumann.uwaterloo.ca (Robert D. Black) writes:
>A while back I heard that Gerald Edgar was working on a new book,
>being the translation into English of various classic papers on
>fractals.  I believe the book was to be called (appropriately)
>"Classics on Fractals".
>
>Does anyone know if this book has been published yet?  Thanks,
>

Not yet.  The artwork, the commentaries, and all but 3 of the translations
are done.  My guess is that it will be out some time in 1993...



-- 
  Gerald A. Edgar                Internet:  edgar@mps.ohio-state.edu
  Department of Mathematics      Bitnet:    EDGAR@OHSTPY
  The Ohio State University      telephone: 614-292-0395 (Office)
  Columbus, OH 43210             -292-4975 (Math. Dept.) -292-1479 (Dept. Fax)
Newsgroups: sci.fractals
From: wung@puttgen.ee.gatech.edu (Peter Wung)
Subject: Re: Fractal Oscillator Circuitry
Reply-To: wung@puttgen.ee.gatech.edu
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 14:16:52 GMT

In article 10063@bnr.ca, kelvinp@crchh447.bnr.ca (Kelvin Porter) writes:
>|I remember, way back in the early days of 'Strange Attractors', seeing an article
>|(written I believe by University of Texas Non-Linear Dynamics Professors)
>|which mentioned capacitors that exhibited chaotic characteristics...
>|It may have been in the Springer-Verlag "Intelligeneer"?????
>|
>|My question is can direct me to reference(s) regarding chaotic circuitry or better
>|yet post ASCII schematics?
>|
>|I'm intrigued by the possibility of making voltage controlled oscillators with
>|chaotic properties for making music (a synthesizer with Voltage Controlled
>|Chaos-cillators, if you will).  I would also be interested in digital implementations
>|as well.
>|
>|Please post your responses to sci.fractals; I'm not sure I can receive external
>|mail.  Thanks for your assistance.
>|
>|Regards,
>|
>|Kelvin R. Porter
>|
>|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>|I do not speak for BNR.


Uou might want to check out articles and books written by Prof. Leon Chua, 
I seem to remember that he wrote an article in the IEEE Proceedings magazine
a few years ago on the subject.  He also has a book out from Springer Verlag
on the topic.

********************************************************************
*Peter Wung			Email:wung@ee.gatech.edu	   * 
*Electric Power Laboratory	Snail mail: 33787 Ga. Tech Station * 
*School of Electrical Engineering	    Atlanta, GA 30332      *
*Georgia Institute of Technology			    	   *
*Atlanta, Georgia						   *
*   	"Pass, Set, CRUSH!"...					   * 
*  	Well, 2 out of 3 ain't bad for a short, fat guy. 	   *
*								   *
********************************************************************
Newsgroups: sci.fractals
Subject: Re: Mac shareware fractals program?
From: cwhi2@cs.aukuni.ac.nz (Craig Dean          Whitmore       )
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 23:27:01 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept. University of Auckland

In <1992Sep28.210252.24785@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> sas5_ss@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Scott Schneier) writes:

>Does any kind person know of a mac shareware fractals program? If so could you 
>please mail me and let me know what site, if any, I can ftp it from.

The best on that i have found is a program called mandella.  It was posted
in mac sources a while ago or if you want to ftp it you can get it from
ccu1.aukuni.ac.nz (130.216.3.1) in mac/applications
File called mandella-61.hqx
ps: use login name anonymous

>					Thanks,
>					Scott Schneier
>				sas5_ss@uhura.cc.rochester.edu
>-- 
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>|  Scott Schneier                 | "If it's too hard to do,              |
>|  sas5_ss@uhura.cc.rochester.edu |  it's not worth doing."-Homer Simpson |
>|-------------------------------------------------------------------------|
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|Craig Whitmore                     |  /////                               |
|Auckland University                | (<>_<>)                              |
|Auckland                           |  \---/                               |
From: demers@cs.ucsd.edu (David DeMers)
Newsgroups: sci.fractals
Subject: Re: fractal software
Date: 29 Sep 92 22:31:53 GMT
Organization: CSE Dept., UC San Diego


In article <Bv5xzx.HKM@cs.psu.edu>, crg@stat.psu.edu (Colin R Goodall) writes:

|> 
|> The most favored software seems to be xfractint .    But
|> only SunOS, Ultrix, AIX, and HPUX are mentioned under UNIX,
|> in the xfractint README file.   Is there something available
|> for Silicon Graphics workstations also?   Trying to compile
|> xfractint on my Personal Iris (IRIX 4.0.1), cc passed the
|> prototyping test (but I'm not convinced yet that prototyping
|> will work to the extent required).  However, IRIX does not
|> include the ftime() system call, and there's no
|> /usr/include/sys/timeb.h.     Can someone please either
|> (1) provide me some pointers to build xfractint on the SGIs, or
|> (2) recommend alternative software for SGIs?
|> 
|> Thanks,
|> Colin Goodall
|> crg@stat.psu.edu

sorry to post, as this likely has only limited interest, but mail bounced;

I've written an ftime for the SGI, and snarfed
up timeb.h from a Sun.  My ftime is incomplete (it
is sufficient for the application I needed it for).

/* ftime.c below */

#include <sys/types.h>
#include <sys/time.h>
#include <sys/timeb.h>

void
ftime(tp)
struct timeb *tp;
{
        tp->time = clock();
        tp->millitm = 0;
}

-------------------------------------

/* timeb.h */

/*      @(#)timeb.h 2.5 88/02/08 SMI; from UCB 4.2 81/02/19     */

/*
 * Structure returned by ftime system call
 */
struct timeb
{
        time_t  time;
        unsigned short millitm;
        short   timezone;
        short   dstflag;
};
 
/* you will want to set the timezone and dstflag too, probably */



-- 
Dave DeMers			 ddemers@UCSD   demers@cs.ucsd.edu
Computer Science & Engineering	C-014		demers%cs@ucsd.bitnet
UC San Diego					...!ucsd!cs!demers
La Jolla, CA 92093-0114	(619) 534-0688, or -8187, FAX: (619) 534-7029
-- 
Dave DeMers			 ddemers@UCSD   demers@cs.ucsd.edu
Computer Science & Engineering	C-014		demers%cs@ucsd.bitnet
UC San Diego					...!ucsd!cs!demers
La Jolla, CA 92093-0114	(619) 534-0688, or -8187, FAX: (619) 534-7029
Newsgroups: sci.fractals
From: jcyr@bnr.ca (Jean Cyr)
Subject: Postscript Fractal Fern
Reply-To: jcyr@bnr.ca (Jean Cyr)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 14:53:37 GMT

Quite some time ago, I remember seing an article in Byte magazine (I think),
that contained a Postscript string that would print a fractal fern. I no
longer have access to this issue of the mag, but would like to use the fern
string to benchmark postscript printer engines. Could anyone having access to
this little postscript program please post it here ?

Thanks

Newsgroups: sci.fractals
From: sassoj@rs6412.ecs.rpi.edu (John J. Sasso Jr.)
Subject: Lebesgue measure in Fractal Dimension
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy NY
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 22:26:07 GMT

Newsgroups: sci.math,
Subject: sci.math.research, sci.fractals
Summary: 
Followup-To: 
Distribution: usa
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy NY
Keywords: Lebesgue measure, Cantor set, Fractals, Hausdorff dimension


   In Real Analysis, I learned that the set {x : 0 < x < 1} has Lebesgue 
measure 1 for the Lebesgue measure defined in R^1, but is 0 for the Lebesgue
measure defined in R^2 (thus, the measure of a set is relative to what 
space, i.e., R^1, R^2, etc..., the Lebesgue measure is defined in).

   Now, the Cantor set has Lebesgue measure 0 for the Lebesgue measure defined
in spaces R^1, R^2, etc...  However, the Cantor does have a fractal dimension
(or Hausdorff dimension) between 0 and 1 (I cannnot recall the value), and
I'll call this dimension Df.  Is it possible to define a Lebesgue measure in
a space of dimension Df (R^Df) such that the measure of the Cantor set is a 
value other than 0?

                        John



Newsgroups: sci.fractals
From: magnasco@research.nj.nec.com (Marcelo Magnasco)
Subject: Re: Link between fractals and "non-analytic distributions"
Originator: magnasco@asterion
Organization: NEC Research Institute
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 92 19:53:28 GMT

In article <BvoqI9.JFr@nic.umass.edu> S2822338@deimos.ucc.umass.edu (s2822338) writes:
>> I would appreciate it if someone could post or mail me the definition
>> of a "non-analytic distribution", apparently associated 
>> with a fractal support.  Let me state the context of my question:
>...
>> Does someone know of a book or article which deals with the 
>> calculus of such distributions?

If you have some mathematical background, Rudin's Real and Complex Analysis
will do. If you really know your math, then you will be able to go to 
Ma~ne's Ergodic Theory and Differentiable Dynamics. 

>wouldn't "non-analytic" imply that there would have to be some OTHER method of
>"figuring it all out" other than calculation... therefore no calculus per se
>would exist... or at least we'd have to look at something BESIDES the
>calculations, not necessarily to their exclusion...

"Calculus" is not equal to "calculations", and "Analysis" (as a branch of
mathematics) has nothing to do with "figuring it all out"... they were named
so centuries ago and the names remain.

A function is analytic in a domain iff you can expand it in Taylor series,
and the radius of convergence of this series is nonzero inside the domain.
That is, an analytic function has an infinite number of derivatives, and
you can locally know the function from the derivatives at one single 
point. 

Fractals are nonanalytic because they are non-differentiable everywhere. 
The converse is not entirely true. 

Best Regards,
Marcelo Magnasco
marcelo@mjf.rockefeller.edu	magnasco@research.nj.nec.com