From: analog@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Mike Monahan)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: The Official Dorm-Rec review of "Quality of Life"  (spoilers)
Date: 18 Nov 92 19:42:51 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center

In article <BxxEqA.MoA@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> analog@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Mike Monahan) writes:


	Yes, I'm sorry to say i wrote what appeared in that postin, and also a  great deal more.  Unfortunately, my terminal appears to be in the habit of 
performing its own editing (maybe we sould sever the command pathways?)

	I'll try again.


In article <1ee0svINNn8e@gap.caltech.edu> thogek@cco.caltech.edu (Thomas G. Kiefer) writes:
>In article <Bxw65s.5Ir@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> myempire@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Matt J. Martin) writes:
>>In article <1ebu55INNcei@gap.caltech.edu> thogek@cco.caltech.edu (Thomas G. Kiefer) writes:
>>>"Quality of Life" spoilers below...

>>>>Contradiction if you don't think about it.  She wanted to use the exocomps,
>>>>and they'd been having "problems" with the command pathways, and somebody
>>>>thought that they might be thinking and alive.  So, cut off the command
>>>>pathways!  Even if it's meaningless, it'll shut the bozos up and let her
>>>>use them.
>>>  
>>>  The contradiction lies in her suggesting a tactic that would only work if the
>>>exocomps were "alive", and then still insisting that they weren't.  If she did
>>>believe that the tactic would work then she obviously must have accepted the
>>>fact they were alive.  And if that's the case, then she's immoral as well as
>>>annoying.
>>
>>Grr.  Did you read what I said above AT ALL?  You certainly didn't address it,
>>so why did you respond?  I'll try again.


	Oh, thank you great sage.
	Now let us examine your handywork.


>
>It appeared that the only way to save Picard and LaForge was to send the
>exocomps over on a "suicide" mission.  Data firmly objected to this, as they
>were sentient beings, and would probably refuse to endanger themselves,
>anyway.  Riker wasn't so sure about the sentience part, but insisted that
>he'd rather risk the maybe-sentient exocomps than the two humans.  Riker did
>agree that their possible resistance and/or command-path problems (sentient
>or no) could be a problem.  The Doctor, frustrated at all this garbage about
>her obviously non-sentient tools, said fine, we'll disconnect their command
>pathways; will that make you happy?


	Excellent!  You too have seen the episode.  Congratulations.


>
>The tactic "would only work if the exocomps were 'alive'", as you said.
>The doctor ardently disbelieved that they could be alive, but also figured
>that disconnecting the command pathways wouldn't hurt anything, and actually
>might bypass the command-path problems they *had* been having, and it would
>take care of the "what if they resist?" worry the others had.

	To quote the mighty sage: "...take care of the 'what if they resist'    worry the others had."  Does not resistance require an act of will?  And 
therefore an act of sentience???  Sorry, strike one.


>  She did not
>suggest it because it would work, but because it would shut those damned
>Federation officers up.


	To quote again: "She did not suggest it because it would work,..."
	That's funny, it didn't seem to me she suggested it because it wouldn't work.  I'm pretty she whe must have thought it would work.  And therin lies the contradiction.  Sorry, strike two.	

	Hmmmmm.  Let's see.  I don't recall the Dorm Rec questioning her motivesas regards the method of saving Picard and Laforge.  So I will address your     claim that no contradiction existed in her argument.  I'll try to use small     words and easy sentence structure so you'll be sure to understand this time.

	Data claims that use of the Exocomps in the suggested manner will cause them to "turn themselves off."  Here Mr. Data affirms his belief that the tiny
machines are sentient; for as I previously posited, terminating their own       commands requires and act of will, etc.
	The scientist's response is, as you already stated, that severing these neural pathways will prevent them from _SHUTTING THEMSELVES OFF_ and allow them to save Picard and Geordi.  Now, despite our dissagreance as concerns her       motives for suggesting this, one must admit that this solution assumes,         a priori, sentience on the part of the Exocomps, and therefore contradicts her  position that they are thoughtless machines.  
	Hence, surely even you can now see that in order for her to suggest     severing the command pathways, she has to assume that the Exocomps are sentient,otherwise, there's no point in severing them.  Therein lies the rub, if she     claims to believe they are mere machines.

	Strike Three!  Yer' Out.

	Once again, thank you for playing.

	

>
>Maybe you should actually try READING my posting before jumping all over it.
>(Your posting above and your flaming e-mail suggest that you have not.)  You
>might discover that not everyone fires away as you have.
>-- 
>======================================================
>====> Thomas Kiefer <===> thogek@cco.caltech.edu <====
>======================================================
	

	Thank you for the warning, Mr. Kiefer.  Perhaps you should try some     thought with your reading next time.  It just might avoid these nasty 
misunderstandings.


>
>					Affectionately,
>
>
>					Michael J. Monahan
>					Member: Dorm Rec
>
>-- 
>	The Analog Person (analog@mentor.cc.purdue.edu)
>	Suffering is the origin of conciousness.- Dostoyevsky
>	I want to look at life, in the available light-Neil Peart
>	A little fascism every now and then is good for you!- Matt J. Martin


-- 
	The Analog Person (analog@mentor.cc.purdue.edu)
	Suffering is the origin of conciousness.- Dostoyevsky
	I want to look at life, in the available light-Neil Peart
	A little fascism every now and then is good for you!- Matt J. Martin