HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: muttiah@thistle.ecn.purdue.edu (Ranjan S Muttiah)
Newsgroups: alt.current-events.somalia
Subject: Re: U.S. Is Not Going to War in Somalia for any Good Reasons
Date: 13 Dec 92 01:01:25 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

In article <1992Dec10.222054.22934@news.columbia.edu> egl1@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Elizabeth G. Levy) writes:
>Now, in the case of Somalia, I tend to agree with the application of
>the military (I'd like a better articluation of long-range goals, a
>structural reform of the UN, and the creation of a real UN army.  Hey,
							^^^^^^^^
I would think that would mean a drastic overhaul.  Technically (;-) the
UN is a peace keeping organization.   They are supposed to enter a country
only when all parties of a conflict or whatever have agreed to comply with
what the UN has prescribed (Ex., Cambodia).  Now in the case of the Gulfwar,
the UN was bringing "peace" into a country rather than trying to maintain
it: the UN declared war on one its members :).

>it's X-mas!  What better time for wish lists!).  Certainly, it's a
>better use for the DOD than the support of some 2nd-rate authoritarian
>who claims his country is being overrun by Communist insurgents.  The
>military has to redefine itself for the post-Cold War era, after all.
>Can you think of anything more constructive?

Interesting to speculate whether this was the real reason for going into
Somalia.  The Scenario is that the military realizes that with the new
administration it is going made more lean (and mean ?).  There are a large
number of jobs at stake.  There's pressure on the top military brass because
of this.  They put pressure on Bush to use the miliary in an altruistic mode
(... in line with the Democratic parties idealogies).  The next phase will
be that there will be tremendous pressure on Clinton not to cut back the
miliary. (Hmmm. and he has so many things lined up to use all that "extra"
money on other things...)
Newsgroups: alt.current-events.somalia,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,misc.test,alt.politics.org.un,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.bush,talk.bizarre,alt.politics.british,alt.president.clinton
From: charb@Cadence.COM (Sue Charbonneau)
Subject: Re: Somalia
Organization: Cadence Design Systems, Inc.
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 23:04:57 GMT

In article <BywG9u.566@apollo.hp.com> goykhman_a@apollo.hp.com (Alex Goykhman) writes:
>In article <1992Dec5.024143.18001@gallant.apple.com> kiddyr@gallant.apple.com (Ray Kiddy) writes:
>
>>caused. The lawlessness in Somalia is a reflection of the fundamental lawlessness
>>of American society, the lawlessness that we export abroad...
>
>    One can't help but conlude that Somalia was a country of law until they
>    began importing lawlessness from the U.S.
>

Yeah, where a couple hundred men
can beat up one defenseless woman.
Xref: sparky alt.current-events.somalia:430 alt.fan.rush-limbaugh:9992 alt.politics.org.un:131 talk.politics.misc:63990 alt.politics.bush:14475 talk.bizarre:41375
From: bur@ultisol.gsfc.nasa.gov (MAC)
Newsgroups: alt.current-events.somalia,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.org.un,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.bush,talk.bizarre
Subject: Re: Somalia
Date: 12 Dec 92 22:07:56 GMT
Organization: NASA/GSFC code 923

In misc.test   bhoughto@sedona.intel.com (Blair P. Houghton) writes:
>In article <1992Dec9.151720.5204@meaddata.com> andyw@meaddata.com writes:
>>The marine landing last night looked pretty peaceful to me... Hopefully it
>>will stay that way.  My little brother is going to be in the military.  I'd
>>be pretty proud of him for helping out in a situation like this.
>
>Does he have buck-teeth and the IQ of a clam?
>
>Those seem to be prerequisites, from what I saw
>during interviews on Koppel last night.
>
>But that could just be the Marines.
>
>				--Blair
>				  "The cutbacks seem to have resulted
>				   in more stringent limits on who
>				   they'll take, anymore..."


Somebody else say it, I don't have the heart.


M - What is the IQ of a crab anyway?
From: mwilson@ncratl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM (Mark Wilson)
Newsgroups: alt.current-events.somalia
Subject: Re: Ease Up on the Hatemongering
Date: 11 Dec 92 18:48:11 GMT
Organization: NCR Engineering and Manufacturing Atlanta -- Atlanta, GA

In <Bz1py0.y9@watserv2.uwaterloo.ca> idjohnst@sciborg.uwaterloo.ca (Ian Johnston) writes:

|Yeah, that's the ticket... We'll form an "Internet UN", have a security council,
|and plan military invasions into various hosts / domains.

|After all, one has to keep the peace... ;-)

Was that keep the peace, or keep the pieces. ;*)
-- 
Mob rule doesn't become any prettier, just because the mob start to call itself
a government.
It ain't charity if you are using someone else's money.
Mark.Wilson@AtlantaGA.NCR.com
Newsgroups: alt.appalachian
From: wmc@sei.cmu.edu (Michael Caldwell)
Subject: Re: Romney, Wva
Organization: The Software Engineering Institute
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 09:00:56 EST


In article <1992Dec16.060338.10372@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>, buckley@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (BUCKLEY  CHARLES RAY) writes:
|> In article <Bz9utw.o5L@austin.ibm.com> jpd@austin.ibm.com () writes:
|> >
|> >I'm originally from a small West Virginia town called Romney.  Anyone
|> >every heard of it?  It's in Hampshire county -- which usually bags  
|> >more deer every season than any other Wva county. 
|> >
|> >-- 
|> [.sig deleted]
|> 
|> If I recall correctly, there is a school for the blind there that is very
|> famous. I also recall that it changed hands a time or 2 during the civil
|> war. 
|> 
|> Usually my family went camping at Nancy Hank's birthplace on saddleback
|> Mountain. (for the incurrable trivial wizards, she was Abe Lincoln's mother).
|> Now that is one pretty place.
|> 
|> -- 
|> Charles Buckley    buckley@ucsu.colorado.edu
|> 
|> Just another West Virginia exile in the land of make believe.
|> 
Romney is the home of the West Virginia School for the Deaf and Blind.

I have also camped at Nancy Hank's birthplace. Unfortunately, it is no longer
the pretty place it once was. A few years back a developer bought the
campground and destroyed it so he could build houses in the middle of nowhere.
I haven't been there since this occurred. If there is interest, I can check it
out over the holidays while visiting family in the area. 
The current issue of West Virginia magazine has an article on Nancy Hanks and
has photos of Saddle Mountain and the cabin that was reconstructed at her
birthplace. 

Michael Caldwell
wmc@sei.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.appalachian
From: Richard Glass <Glass@unca.edu>
Subject: Re: Romney, Wva
X-Xxdate: Wed, 16 Dec 92 09:08:21 GMT
Organization: UNC at Asheville
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d7
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 16:04:10 GMT

Re: Romney, Wva
Oh well, I'll try again.  We lost power while I was trying to send this
the last time and 
nothing got out but the header.  Sorry...
I am glad to hear to some other fellow Romney-ites actually made it into
the real world.
I grew up there and love the place, but am glad that I have had a chance
to see some of
the rest of the World.  My father-in-law is Jim Miller who owns Jim
Miller's market just
at the bottom of the mountain;  maybe you know him.  I will be going back
for the Christmas
Holidays, so if you want me to holler at someone, just give a shout.
P.S. about the deer hunting.  Nothing like it.  I still go home to do
some from time to time.
Glass@UNCA.EDU
Newsgroups: alt.appalachian
From: SMCMILLN@NUACVM.ACNS.NWU.EDU
Subject: Re: Appalachia, Religion, SnakeHandlers
Organization: Northwestern University
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 15:19:27 GMT

In article <168BA8843.M19249@mwvm.mitre.org>
M19249@mwvm.mitre.org writes:
 
>If I may wade back into this snakepit of postings,
>Maybe its just that there are more rattlers and copperheads in the mountains
>than there are in cities.  I've seen some interesting liturgical dance in the
>city because thats where the dancers are.  Also, whether snake handling or
>even liturgical dance is the mixing of pagan ritual or not, certainly such
>mixing is rather well documented.  The use of a holiday so close to the winter
>solstice is not really an accident folks.  As for other mixings look to some
>Carribean based "faiths" such as Rastafarianism and Santa Rio. (Feel free to
>correct my spellings).
>-DW, descendant of converted pagans
>"Standard disclaimer"
 
This is my first posting to alt.appalachian, and I'm about to jump
right in the middle so go easy on me.
As far as Jim Burke's offense taken at the use of the word "pagan",
we all need to realize what a nebulous thing language is; how words
change from place to place and person to person. I'm not saying that
Jim is wrong, I'm just saying that his definition of pagan may mean
something to him that it doesn't mean to others. In my teen years I
came to understand "pagan" as beliefs and practitioners of the "Old
Religion", pretty much what most people would call the druidic
tradition. When I went to Ireland though, the term was used (as I
understood it) to refer to any non-christians. Most of the time
muslims or hindus, and less to "druids". Just something to think
about.
Secondly, when I started reading this thread, I was wondering when
someone was going to bring up the syncretic african-american religions.
I've studied enough about Haitian voodoo and seen enough black primitive
baptist and white pentacostal services to realize there's something
similar going on in each one. The shamanic-ecstatic motif is a common
enough occurence around the world among unrelated cultures to be
seen as an almost universal trait. It's just kind of an idea that is
common enough that it occurs everywhere. Given this, it isn't
necessary that snake-handling has to be a survival of some pagan cultural
traits among our ancestors who settled in the Appalachians. It could
have just been an original inovation translating the gospel into a
shamanic experience. Again, just a thought.
 
Scott McMillan (smcmilln@nuacvm)
From: mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Mike Reaser)
Newsgroups: alt.appalachian
Subject: Re: Appalachia, Religion, SnakeHandlers
Keywords: Snakes, Religion
Date: 14 Dec 92 20:43:43 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: a stone mountain of Kudzu

In <1992Dec14.200950.6177@mlb.semi.harris.com> luoni@jasper.mlb.semi.harris.com (Perry Luoni) writes:

>In article <1992Dec12.223017.8652@netcom.com> dhawk@netcom.com (David Hawkins) writes:
>>They don't have snakes there every week -- would make it too easy for
>>the law enformement folks to crack down on them.  It's normally a 
>>special service for those known to the church.  [Just drawing on my
>>experience with the church in Newport, Tennessee.]

>What I want to know is why would there be a law against playing with snakes.
>Does this mean if I go out in the woods and grab me a killer snake I have to
>not only worry about getting bit by the snake but also by the law as well?
>There are just far to many stupid laws, and lawmakers out there.

Aren't some of the snakes used on the enadangered species list?  There's
also the laws against self-endangerment (so-called "suicide" laws) which
might be invoked.

Just a guess, since I'm not a lawyer nor do I play one on TV :-).

--
=======================================================================
 Mike Reaser, Hewlett-Packard N. Amer. Response Center - Atlanta
 Internet:  mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com
 NBCS: B4 f w g+ k s-               I barely speak for myself, so
 #include <standard.disclaimer>       don't make me speak for HP
=======================================================================
Newsgroups: alt.appalachian
From: trev@well.sf.ca.us (Trevor Zion Bauknight)
Subject: Re: Appalachia, Religion, SnakeHandlers
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 05:26:08 GMT

In <168BA8843.M19249@mwvm.mitre.org> M19249@mwvm.mitre.org writes:
>burke@tss.com (Jim Burke) writes:

>>things.  I do in fact think Appalachians retain more of the culture of
>>their ancestors than other Americans - it is the labeling of this as
>>"paganism" that I disagree with.

Here, in a nutshell, is the source of dischord.  I happen to believe that
many vestiges of Celtic paganism survive to this day in the backs of the
minds of at least the older members of Appalachian society, even though
most of the time the origin or meaning of the traditions/superstitions/
turns-of-phrase are long forgotten.  This is, by all means, debatable, but
I'm not sure anyone really wants to get into it on this newsgroup.  I
suppose that part of the reason for my posting was to test the water, and
maybe discuss the specifics via email or something.  I didn't mean to
start a fire.

>mixing is rather well documented.  The use of a holiday so close to the winter
>solstice is not really an accident folks.  As for other mixings look to some
>Carribean based "faiths" such as Rastafarianism and Santa Rio. (Feel free to
>correct my spellings).                              ^^^^^^^^^  

You probably mean Santeria, which is a Cuban derivation of what is commonly
called Voodoo...its deities syncretized to correspond to Saints within
the Catholic church in order for its practicioners to avoid persecution.
Rastafarianism is centered on the belief that the late Emperor of Ethiopia,
Haile Selassie was the prophesied Messiah.  Another interesting mix of
Christianity and paganism in the Caribbean is Jamaica's "Pocomania"...
it features some very offbeat versions of well-known legends...Zora Neale
Hurston talks about it in her book _Tell My Horse_.

But I digress... 
 
Trevor Bauknight         trev@well.sf.ca.us       Jes' Grew Carriers
 
                                                     +-----------+
                  A bowl for the cat,                | _> ###    |
                  a bowl for the dog,                |     |     |
                  a bowl for me...                   +-----------+
Newsgroups: alt.appalachian
From: wmc@sei.cmu.edu (Michael Caldwell)
Subject: Re: Romney, Wva
Organization: The Software Engineering Institute
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 08:10:48 EST


In article <Bz9utw.o5L@austin.ibm.com>, jpd@austin.ibm.com () writes:
|> 
|> I'm originally from a small West Virginia town called Romney.  Anyone
|> every heard of it?  It's in Hampshire county -- which usually bags  
|> more deer every season than any other Wva county. 
|> 
|> -- 
|> ===========================================================================
|>         Note: All opinions expressed here are entirely my own.
|> John Dodson                    internet: jpd@austin.ibm.com
|> IBM AWS                              vm: johnd at ausvm6

Nice to "meet" a "neighbor" on the net. I'm originally from Burlington, an
even smaller town in Mineral county (don't sneeze or you will miss it), 
approximately 15 miles west of Romney on Rt. 50. 
When I was younger (10-15 years ago) my family used to camp along the South
Branch of the Potomac River near Romney.

Michael Caldwell
Resident Affiliate
CASE Environments Project
Software Engineering Institute
Carnegie Mellon University
Newsgroups: alt.appalachian
From: dhawk@netcom.com (David Hawkins)
Subject: Re: Appalachia, Religion, SnakeHandlers
Keywords: Snakes, Religion
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 22:30:17 GMT

trev@well.sf.ca.us (Trevor Zion Bauknight) writes:

>According to Mark, in the last chapter of his book, Jesus appeared

There are three different endings to the Gospel of Mark.  The short
version, which appears in the oldest texts, stops at verse 8, I think.
The other two, including the bit about snakes, were thought to have
been added at a later date.

>>I wonder how often they have to get new snakes,  and whether they 


They don't have snakes there every week -- would make it too easy for
the law enformement folks to crack down on them.  It's normally a 
special service for those known to the church.  [Just drawing on my
experience with the church in Newport, Tennessee.]

later, david
--
David Hawkins    dhawk@netcom.com   dhawk@sybase.com
"The chain which can be yanked is not the eternal chain." 
             -- Gordon Fitch
Newsgroups: alt.appalachian
From: SMCMILLN@NUACVM.ACNS.NWU.EDU
Subject: Re: Appalachia, Religion, SnakeHandlers
Organization: Northwestern University
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 14:34:42 GMT

In article <BzDn7v.n46@tss.com>
burke@tss.com (Jim Burke) writes:
 
>
>Hiya.  Actually, I didn't take offense to the term "pagan".  I readily
>admitted that much of Christianity (including Christmas trees, Easter
>symbols, etc.) have pagan roots.  What I _did_ take offense at was the
>use of the word "primitive" to describe people from Appalachia.  As far
>as "paganism", I simply disagreed with the original posters assessment
>of how paganism related to Appalachian religions vs. other Christian
>religions in the U.S.
 
I've got to agree with you on both of these points. I'm living in Chicago
right now; originally from Georgia; and often get tired of the attitudes
displayed here towards people of Southern and/or Appalachian extraction.
I think the word "primitive" has too many negative connotations attached
to it to be used without some clarification. I would prefer the word
"clannish" to refer to mountain societies. I also agree with you that
the attachment of paganism as a Celtic survivalism in the formation of
snake-handler sects isn't probable to me. I think it was probably an
independent innovation of the people who practice/ed it. Good to talk
with you.
Scott McMillan
Newsgroups: alt.appalachian
From: dougg@churchill.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Doug.Gilliam)
Subject: Trapped Coal Miners
Organization: NCR Corp., Columbia SC
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 14:12:44 GMT

I wrote the original article and have read the responses and just wanted
to apologize for providing apparently wrong information about the CURRENT
state of regulations on non-union coal mines.  My information is
definitely from the 60's and from what a couple of people said, things
have changed since then.  From someone who lost a grandfather in a 
non-union mine in the early 60's, which I know for a fact had little if
any regulation from the federal, state, or local governments or anyone
else, it's good to hear things have changed for the better.

Sorry for the old information which was wrong.

Doug Gilliam


** Doug Gilliam	(Fed. Systems)	803-739-6184
** NCR - MCPD Columbia          FAX 739-7318
** 3325 Platt Springs Rd.	VoicePlus 632
** West Columbia, SC  29170	doug.gilliam@ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM


Newsgroups: alt.appalachian
From: buckley@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (BUCKLEY  CHARLES RAY)
Subject: Re: Romney, Wva
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 06:03:38 GMT

In article <Bz9utw.o5L@austin.ibm.com> jpd@austin.ibm.com () writes:
>
>I'm originally from a small West Virginia town called Romney.  Anyone
>every heard of it?  It's in Hampshire county -- which usually bags  
>more deer every season than any other Wva county. 
>
>-- 
[.sig deleted]

Sure we have heard of Romney. I wouldn't want to go there during hunting
season though. I hear there are a large number of hunters who come from the
Baltimore-DC area. ('But sheriff, I need an uzi to shoot a deer' :-))

If I recall correctly, there is a school for the blind there that is very
famous. I also recall that it changed hands a time or 2 during the civil
war. 

Usually my family went camping at Nancy Hank's birthplace on saddleback
Mountain. (for the incurrable trivial wizards, she was Abe Lincoln's mother).
Now that is one pretty place.


-- 
Charles Buckley    buckley@ucsu.colorado.edu

Just another West Virginia exile in the land of make believe.

Newsgroups: alt.appalachian
From: luoni@jasper.mlb.semi.harris.com (Perry Luoni)
Subject: Re: Appalachia, Religion, SnakeHandlers
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 20:09:50 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Harris Semiconductor, Melbourne FL
Keywords: Snakes, Religion

In article <1992Dec12.223017.8652@netcom.com> dhawk@netcom.com (David Hawkins) writes:
>They don't have snakes there every week -- would make it too easy for
>the law enformement folks to crack down on them.  It's normally a 
>special service for those known to the church.  [Just drawing on my
>experience with the church in Newport, Tennessee.]

What I want to know is why would there be a law against playing with snakes.
Does this mean if I go out in the woods and grab me a killer snake I have to
not only worry about getting bit by the snake but also by the law as well?
There are just far to many stupid laws, and lawmakers out there.
Newsgroups: alt.appalachian
From: Richard Glass <Glass@unca.edu>
Subject: Re: Romney, Wva
X-Xxdate: Wed, 16 Dec 92 06:37:13 GMT
Organization: UNC at Asheville
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d7
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 13:33:02 GMT

Re: Romney, Wva
Newsgroups: alt.appalachian
From: kieran@world.std.com (Aaron L Dickey)
Subject: Re: WVnians, Huntingtonians, Marshall grads--MU playing for nat'l title
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 06:38:32 GMT

The NCAA ruled that 1000 SRO tickets must be made available; half to
MArshall, half to Youngstown or whoever it is they're playing.  These
tickets go on sale at the MArshall box office at 7:30 am Saturday.

The game is totally sold out; thus the network broadcast of the game will
NOT be blacked out in Huntington.  Personally, I'm getting the hell out of
town before the riots start.

--Aaron


Newsgroups: alt.appalachian
From: pdunn@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Patrick L Dunn)
Subject: WVnians, Huntingtonians, Marshall grads--MU playing for nat'l title
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 22:55:31 GMT

Since there have been from time to time posts concerning Marshall Univ., and 
since many MU grads seem to read this board, it
might be a good time to note that the Thundering Herd is playing for the I-AA
football title on Saturday.

The last that I heard, all the seats were sold out--SRO tickets will be sold
Saturday.

GO HERD--
PDunn
Newsgroups: alt.appalachian
From: dhawk@netcom.com (David Hawkins)
Subject: Re: Appalachia, Religion, SnakeHandlers
Keywords: Snakes, Religion
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 00:37:28 GMT

luoni@jasper.mlb.semi.harris.com (Perry Luoni) writes:

>What I want to know is why would there be a law against playing with snakes.
>Does this mean if I go out in the woods and grab me a killer snake I have to
>not only worry about getting bit by the snake but also by the law as well?
>There are just far to many stupid laws, and lawmakers out there.

It's not a specific anti-snake law.  How it works: If I'm holding a
poinsoneous snake and I hand it to you and the snake bites you, am I a
accomplace to your death?? (Not that you would sue me, of course.) 
But any time I distribute something lethal and someone gets killed,
then there's a possibility of a lawsuit.

later, david
--
David Hawkins    dhawk@netcom.com   
"The chain which can be yanked is not the eternal chain." 
             -- Gordon Fitch
From: jpd@austin.ibm.com
Newsgroups: alt.appalachian
Subject: Romney, Wva
Date: 14 Dec 92 23:05:55 GMT
Organization: IBM Austin
Originator: jpd@camino.austin.ibm.com


I'm originally from a small West Virginia town called Romney.  Anyone
every heard of it?  It's in Hampshire county -- which usually bags  
more deer every season than any other Wva county. 

-- 
===========================================================================
        Note: All opinions expressed here are entirely my own.
John Dodson                    internet: jpd@austin.ibm.com
IBM AWS                              vm: johnd at ausvm6
Newsgroups: alt.appalachian