HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pharvey@mipos3.intel.com (Paul Harvey)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Misogyny was (veggies, women, fear)
Date: 22 Jul 92 00:04:08 GMT

In article <711627331.F00001@therose.pdx.com> 
Frank.Perricone@f814.n355.z1.therose.pdx.com (Frank Perricone) writes:
>WHAT IS IT ABOUT WOMEN THAT MEN FEAR?

That's what I'd like to know too. Is it because they are allied with the
snake and forced us to eat the fruit of knowledge from the garden of Eden?
Women just don't seem threatening to me. Are they just pretending? Will
they become evil slave masters when they get the chance? If they get
machine guns, will we have to call them SIR or MAM. I really can't
remember the last time I felt threatened by a woman. Even in school. Sure
they are good at word games and the subtle dig but threatening? I just
don't know. Maybe if you went to Catholic school and were harassed as a
child by a nun. Maybe if your mother was cruel. There must be some cruel
mothers. Sure there have been lots of women I would have liked to gotten
to know better, if you know what I mean, and sure I've been turned down or
given the old not tonight line. I've done the same to women, that's to be
expected isn't it? Just because you find yourself attracted to a woman at
a certain time doesn't mean it's the right time or that she will be attracted
to you. What reasons can there be for fearing women? That I'd really like
to know. If you women have any ideas, please jump right in. My tone may
sound sarcastic, but I'm really just curious. If you fear follow-up 
retribution, just put the message "pharvey don't follow-up" in your post and 
you have my word I will not. That goes for either sex.
From: krikket@meltdown.chi.il.us (D. 'krikket' Krick)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: >suggestion<
Date: 23 Jul 92 09:17:11 GMT
Organization: The Meltdown - A Team Star BBS

In article <1992Jul22.133646.1@fnalno.fnal.gov>, holzman@fnalno.fnal.gov
(Daniel B. Holzman) writes:
>In article <krikket.4963@meltdown.chi.il.us>, krikket@meltdown.chi.il.us (D. 
>'krikket' Krick) writes:

>> Oh High Priest of mine,

>*snicker* Fine, fine.  Now I know how Peregrine felt at Goddess Gathering >when Morningstar introduced him to everyone as "Lord Peregrine."

<ZAP! Stuff deleted>

>> For many people, 

<ZAP! (Several sentances in () but the origional sentance continues) >

>> don't directly identify with any of the
>> sub-catagories because they are often learning paganism and magical studies
>> through trial and error, using and blending many of the different
>> sub-catagories of Paganism, and having fun at it at the same time.

>>         How else, but as a "Pagan" would you identify someone who blends
>> "Wiccan Formula Magic" (tm) with "Neo-Shamanism" [I refuse to call it 
>> Shamanism, for the Amer. Inds would be appalled at it!] a good healthy dose >> of a few obscure pagan traditions [IE: Merlanic], a good quanitity of 
>> origional material, and a few other oddities thrown in.  The result would >> NOT be anything that fits into any of the sub-catagories, but is still
>> Pagan, none-the-less.

>(In the same sense of light sarcasm and fun):

>I'd call you "Literati", perhaps, maybe "illeterai" in my crasser moments >(with apologies to Steve Jackson).  My list of pagan religions was not meant >to be exhaustive.

(Continuing in lightheared mannerisms)

Oh Most Wise and Majestic Religious Leader,

Dispite the insults you have lain upon me, I fear that the origional intent of my grovel was not understood.  What else but "Pagan" (With a capitol P) would qualify for those who identify with the term "Pagan" but not one of the numerous subsets, of which neither of us were attempting to list comprehensively?

Krikket               ! krikket@meltdown.chi.il.us ! USnail:3 Danada Square E.
a.k.a Doug Krick      ! Team Star Charter Member   !        Suite 246
Data ph# 708/665-9732 ! #include<std.disclaimers>  !        Wheaton, Il 60187

 'If you are what you eat, then I'm Dead Meat'  -- Timbuk 3 "Grand 'ol Party"
From: iebtcom@accucx.cc.ruu.nl (Mike Adamczyk )
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Druid request
Date: 29 Jul 92 08:27:22 GMT
Followup-To: alt.pagan
Organization: Full Circles

In article <1992Jul28.123708.3152@ducvax.auburn.edu>,
wmathews@ducvax.auburn.edu wrote:
> 
> John Writes:
> >Are there any Druidic organizations out there?  I was wondering what
> >a Druid would do in his daily rituals and what sort of things the
> >religion requires of it's members.  I am just curious.
>  
> >Thanks,
>  
> >John Cairns
>  
>  
> >*****************
> >Pardon my ignorance.
> 
> There are several, but the two largest (that I know of) are the
> Reformed Druids of North America (RDNA) and Ar n'Draiocht Fein
> (which translates from Modern Irish to mean "Our Own Druidism").
> I don't know much about RDNA, but I have been an on-again/off-again
> member of ADF for about six years. ADF was founded by Isaac Bonewits,
> whose book _Real Magic_ has recently gone back into print. 
> 
> The latest address I have for ADF (I'm off-again at the moment)
> is this one:
> ADF
> PO Box 9398
> Berkeley, CA 94709
> 
> Reformed Druids of North America
> Bodfish
> Box 142
> Orinda, CA 94563
> (please note that the RDNA address comes from Margot Adler's book
> _Drawing Down the Moon_, so I'm not sure if it's still valid.
> 
> wendelin
> wmathews@ducvax.auburn.edu

Hi John
Here's my promised information about druids

THE ORDER OF BARDS OVATES & DRUIDS
The Order has two main aims
1.To help the individual develop his potential- spiritual, intellectual,
emotional, physical and artisitic.
2. To work with the natural world, to cherish and protect it. and to
cooperate with it in every way- both esoterical and exoterical.

The adress is:
OBOD
260 Kew Road
Richmond, Surrey
TW9 3EG England

Interesting books:
The mind of the druid by Dr. E. Graham Howe
Skoob Books publishing ltd. 1989

The Book of Druidry
by Ross Nichols
Aquarian press 1990

And the books of Philip Garr-Gomm
The elements of the Druid Tradition and many more of him, he's the chief of
the OBOD.

Lots of pleasure and interesting times on your path may the light be with
you.
Stay in touch I like to communicate all around the world to share
knowledge, help etc. 

Blessed be
From: mkkuhner@phylo.genetics.washington.edu (Mary K. Kuhner)
Subject: Re: SEXES (was "something I just wanted to complain about")
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 16:44:49 GMT

It was a real delight to see, at the Spring Mysteries Festival, a huge,
valuptuous, 'overweight' Goddess-image of a woman in transparent orange
gauze, taking obvious delight in her body.  I think she gave a little
gift of healing to practically every woman who saw her.  I know she did
to me.

Storm/Mary K. Kuhner mkkuhner@genetics.washington.edu
From: darsie@eecs.ucdavis.edu (Richard Darsie)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Kali (Was Re: More Crone Images)
Date: 30 Jul 92 21:23:38 GMT
Organization: University of California, Davis

In article <24300@castle.ed.ac.uk>, egnr76@castle.ed.ac.uk (A Kashko) writes:
> 
> In article <y9sooB1w164w@ailanth.UUCP > ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com (Ailsa N.T. Murphy) writes:
>  >yup, i don't know how i missed that.  kali is NOT a crone.  she is 
>  >usually shown as being either grotesquely ugly or young and beautiful.  
>  >but grotesquely ugly does not equal croneliness.  kali is not a celtic, 
>  >or really even an indo-european goddess.  she isn't part of the 
>  >maiden-mother-crone trilogy...
> 
> 	Interesting. So where did kali come from, if not indo-european?
> Suggests to me Kali may be an outsider figure, or maybe related to
> a trickster. Now to go away and think about this.

My understanding is that Kali is an incarnation or manifestation of 
the Hindu god Siva ("The Destroyer"). "She" is the epitome of death,
destruction, etc., i.e., entropy.  Interestingly, in Hindu cosmology,
which is quite different from anything western, we are considered to
be living in the "Kali Yuga", or the Dark Age, characterized by
extremes of selfishness and materialism. Hindu prophecy states that
at some point the Kali Yuga will end and there will be worldwide
spiritual renewal (hm, sound familiar??)

Richard
(Tuneweaver)
From: heimberg@pacific.mitre.org (Jeff Heimberger)
Subject: Re: Who cares
Organization: The MITRE Corporation
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 16:31:50 GMT


In article <ZLiBoB7w164w@ailanth.UUCP> ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com (Ailsa N.T. Murphy) writes:

>[Lots of really nasty personal attacks and name-calling deleted...]

Gee, Ailsa, hit a raw nerve, didn't I?

I'm truly sorry that you can't address the issues without attacking me
personally or name-calling.  That's the problem -- there is generally
little reasoned discussion about the issues, the solutions, etc.
People just square off, start name calling, get into throwing rocks,
and finally a riot ensues.

If you'd care to talk about this in a reasonable manner, please respond
again.  I refuse to add flames to your fire.

Regards,

Jeff H...
From: pharvey@mipos3.intel.com (Paul Harvey)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Women, men, scum, and wicca . . .
Date: 23 Jul 92 20:15:42 GMT

In article <krikket.5019@meltdown.chi.il.us> 
krikket@meltdown.chi.il.us (D. 'krikket' Krick) writes:
>I would like to point out that there is a rather big difference between 
>affermative action groups and women-only groups.

Well, yeah I guess. I don't get what you're saying here. Affirmative action
groups are groups that try to correct for the built-in discrimination in
the system. Think about this: In Europe, at some time point which I forget,
the decision was made that only degreed doctors should be allowed to practice
medicine. Seems like a good idea, huh? Only one problem, women weren't
allowed to go to college. Hence the term "Witch Doctor". You see what I'm
saying? You can't go into the ghetto and say, "OK, you are now free, now go
out and get those high paying jobs". You see the problem? The people of the
ghetto have been denied the same access to education as those in the suburbs.
Do you just write them off to errors made in the past? If there was equality
now, there would be no need for affirmative action. It is one thing to free
the slaves, it's a whole 'nuther matter to correct the system.

>What is the difference between a white-male-only golf course and a (select 
>any group, Black, Female, etc.)-only function? Both are blatent discrimination!

It's a bit more complex than that. There is nothing wrong with a White, 
male-only golf course, provided the following: It is privately funded, it is
not the only golf course in town if others want to play, and it is not used 
for business along the lines of the old boy network. Unfortunately, it's that
last requirement that trips up most White men only organizations since most of
them serve only as networking clubs for the advancement of White men. You are 
free to associate with whomever you want, as long as it does not prevent 
others from attaining their rights. There is no rule that says we all have 
to pass as something like Michael Jackson or lose our cultural identities in a 
huge melting pot. We are all ethnics, even the great white ghost.
From: darsie@eecs.ucdavis.edu (Richard Darsie)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Love and Trust
Date: 22 Jul 92 23:08:43 GMT
Organization: University of California, Davis

I vaguely recall some time ago that someone posted a story about a
circle of women (in Australia?) who were threatened by some redneck
types and "defended" themselves by concentrating on the bonds
of love and trust between them.  I was struck by the similarity
of this to another story I have heard, concerning the Burmese
Theravada Buddhist meditation master S. N. Goenka. He and his
students were practicing meditation in their hall, when a very angry
and disturbed individual who held some imagined grudge against Goenka
burst in and threatened to kill him. Goenka told his students, "Let us
do metta meditation."  Metta (the Pali word for "loving-kindness") is
of the "paramitas" or "perfections" which are aimed at in Theravada
(and indeed all) Buddhist practice, and metta meditation is a particular
practice which enhances the development of this characteristic. The
upshot of the story is, after Goenka and his students did the metta
meditation for a few minutes, the threatening individual simply ceased
his ranting and went away. 

Since these two stories seemed to be almost identical, it seems to
me that both groups of people were tapping into the same energy. 
I was wondering if anyone else out there has any similar experiences
to report.

--Richard

                          *********************************
Richard Darsie            *                               *
(Tuneweaver)              *     The one who dies with     *
darsie@eecs.ucdavis.edu   *   the most instruments WINS!  *
                          *                               *
                          *********************************
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: heimberg@pacific.mitre.org (Jeff Heimberger)
Subject: Re: Who cares - gay rights
Organization: The MITRE Corporation
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 11:41:11 GMT

In article <1992Jul25.050919.19619@wolves.uucp> wolfe@wolves.uucp (G. Wolfe Woodbury) writes:
>heimberg@pacific.mitre.org (Jeff Heimberger) writes:
>>aaldrich@geppetto.encore.com (Al Aldrich) writes:
>>>tmhoff@oogoody.Corp.Sun.COM (Todd Hoff) writes:
>>>>5. Oppress and descriminate against homosexuals. I didn't do it.
>>>But what do you do to support gay rights now?
>>But what do gay rights activists do to support hetero rights now?
>	:
>><Donning flame retardant underwear...>
>
>You're going to need it!   You've happend to punch one of my buttons!
>
>Flame On!
>
>	You sniveling little heterosexual breeder!  Where did you ever
>learn to think?  I guess you're just being driven by your hormones and
>reacting to the "social norms" that inhibit your compassion.
>
>Flame off.
>
>[Note: that is a classic Usenet flame, lots of personal animosity based ]
>[on absolutely no facts or knowledge. :-)                               ]

And you've hit one of my buttons.

I don't respond to people who preface their arguments with such
invective language.

Regards,

Jeff H...
From: larry@bradley.bradley.edu (Larry D. Stratton)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Misogyny (etc.--PHarvey)
Date: 24 Jul 92 15:11:38 GMT
Organization: Bradley University

In <1992Jul24.102928.6641@ac.dal.ca> jblain@ac.dal.ca writes:
>In article <1992Jul22.174656.26545@cis.umassd.edu>, cscionti@UMASSD.EDU writes:
>> (women, that is).

>This doesn't seem "obvious" to me, only circular. To say anyone is afraid of
>something because they are "scary", fearsome, etc is tautological. Why are 
>women perceived as "scary"? Who perceives us as "scary" . . .? 
>(Note that I said "perceived as", not "are". I don't consider I'm "scary" . . .)

   I agree with the 'perceived', Jenny.  One theory is that men have a
   need to control, part of the masculine mystique.  Women have been 
   finding new strength and a new sense of personna.  The conflict that
   arises is seen as threatening to the male.
From: pharvey@mipos3.intel.com (Paul Harvey)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: More Crone Images (was re: stereotypes)
Date: 30 Jul 92 21:57:31 GMT

In article <y9sooB1w164w@ailanth.UUCP> 
ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com (Ailsa N.T. Murphy) writes:
>has anyone but me ever thought that the whole crone = death thing is wrong? 

That would be my current conclusion. Of course I think of the trinity as
being girl-woman-crone, slightly different perhaps. And then the idea of the
crone as death seems to close to the modern idea of the young virgin being the
most "valuable" or "desirable" of all the ages of women. Both strike me as
lacking or deficient somehow. The elderly are actually agents of life as their
death allows the cycles to continue, allows the lives of the new. So in a 
sense, the children are the agents of death, as they eventually require the
death of the elderly. It is not all so depressing as it may all seem. Life is
sacred and so anything that keeps the cycles of life going is also sacred. Life
feeds on life and the result is of course death. The only question is does
one feed the fire or quench the fire? The fire of life, that is.
From: pharvey@mipos3.intel.com (Paul Harvey)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Overthrow "THE MAN" symbolically, was (Who cares)
Date: 24 Jul 92 21:01:47 GMT
	<eTeFoB1w164w@ailanth.UUCP>

In article <eTeFoB1w164w@ailanth.UUCP> 
ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com (Ailsa N.T. Murphy) writes:
>so far as i'm concerned, 
>i think the best tactics would be for all the oppressed groups to get 
>together, bury their differences (for example homophobia in the black 
>community and racism in the gay male community) and overthrow the man.  
>together there's a lot more of us than there are of them.  and ALL of us 
>who are white need to overthrow whatever traces of the man exist withion  
>ourselves...

Yeah, I'll go for that, overthrow "THE MAN" in ourselves. All of us are
oppressor and oppressed in varying degrees, all of us suffer, all of us
should overthrow "THE MAN" in ourselves. Not cast out, but turn around
to serve all humankind. Boy, I was stupid, mista bob dobalina, it took
a while before I could see through the mask. Now, tell me, who is number
one?

Be seeing you!

Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: radzy@ICSI.Berkeley.EDU (Tim Radzykewycz)
Subject: Re: FAQ list?
Organization: International Computer Science Institute, Berkeley, CA, U.S.A.
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 16:33:56 GMT



amadeus@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Susan Harwood Kaczmarczik) writes:
> However.  I've volunteered my services before; if the sentiment
> changes I'd be willing to help create one [FAQ], but not alone.

I think we *should* have one.  It doesn't have to give definitive
answers to all the questions, but instead, it can give a range of
answers or just say that we can't decide.

Susan, would you like to work with me to put one together, and
run it past everyone for concensus?  (-:  Oh, great!  Edited
by Kaczmarczik and Radzykewycz.  :-)

Bear Blessings!

------------------------------------------------------------
					|  An it harm none,
	-- radzy			|  do as ye will.
					|
	Tim Omelan Radzykewycz     	|  "Just pray for a
	The Incredible Radical Cabbage	|  tough hide and a
					|  tender heart."
	radzy@icsi.berkeley.edu	        |    -- Ruth Graham
					|
------------------------------------------------------------
> Hi! I am a .signature virus. Copy me into your .signature to join in!
From: idfraser@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Ian Fraser)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: alt.wicca, anyone?
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 92 02:03:08 MDT
Organization: Edmonton Remote Systems #1, Edmonton, AB, Canada

wolfe@wolves.uucp (G. Wolfe Woodbury) writes:

> If you want an alt.pagan.wicca group, or don't want it, or want a
> different name, reply to me by email and I'll track the responses as a
> straw poll of support.
I'm in favor of soc.religion.wicca, a moderated newsgroup. (I've already 
voted, please disregard this, Wolfe) The bifg advantage, it seems to me, 
is that this would prevent the "Attack of the Killer Fundies", and the 
resultant wasted bandwidth.
 
Just a thought.

Ian Fraser              idfraser@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca
Edmonton Remote Systems:  Celebrating 10 years of service to Northern Alberta
From: cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Subject: another piddly question from you know who
Summary: looking for Tarot deck info 
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Keywords: Tarot  
Date: 27 Jul 92 03:17:33 GMT

*static crackle*

We interrupt your regularly scheduled flamefest for the following
bulletin:

Janis Cortese, feminist and sarcastic w(b)itch extraordinare, is searching
for information regarding a certain Tarot deck called the Art Nouveau
Tarot.  Pictured in a catalogue, one card out of the deck displays a
person with dark hair, facing forward, with both hands bent at the
elbows and arms raised to chest level, palms facing slightly inward.
Between the palms is what appears to be (the picture is barely a third
of an inch wide) a small, glowing reddish rectangular object.  The
background is the typical stained-glass look of the other cards, in
predominantly blue and light orange.

Any of our home viewers with information about this card -- which one it
is -- will win FA-A-A-A-bulous cash prizes and will have their name
entered in a contest for a ca$h scholarship to the Liberty Baptist
University!!!!  Don't wait, folks!  Enter now!

And, the next time that thirst urge hits, go for a nice cool can of your
favorite domestic beer -- guaranteed to make you irresistible to any and
all members of whatever sex you call friend!

We now return you to your regularly scheduled flamefest.

*static*

"Oh, yeah?  Oh, yeah . . . "

_______________________________________

Seriously, if anyone has seen this deck and can tell me which card this
is, I would appreciate it.  There's a good chance that, if the deck
comes in a box, this card is pictured on the front.

Muchissimas gracias (lit. meaning thanks AND blessings), 
Janis
From: canders@isr.harvard.edu (Carl E. Anderson)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: European homogeneity (Was: Lithuania)
Date: 24 Jul 92 16:57:44 GMT
Organization: Harvard University, Cambridge, MA

In article <1439@lysator.liu.se> ceci@lysator.liu.se (Ceci Henningsson) writes:
>ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe) writes:
>>Wolfe, I think that the writer meant that each area of Europe is homogeneous.
>>While it is not perfectly true, from an American point of view the homogen-
>>eity of individual locales in Europe is nothing short of incomprehensible.
>>What is incomprehensible often becomes legendary.
>
>I suppose that's why they fight on Balcan. Bosnien-Hercegovina is
>currently divided between four forces: Croatians, Serbs, Bosnians and
>the UN (who hold the aerodrome outside of Sarajevo). Take a look on
>the map and see how small Bosnien is and then come back and say that
>European is a regionally homogenous continent.  

	To a certain extent, it depends on what size regions you're talking
about.  It is not unreasonable to think of Croatian folk tradition as
opposed to Serbian traditions, etc.  Obviously there are some differences.
	This isn't intended to excuse their beating the hell out of each
other.  _That_ remains unfortunate.

>While you have your atlas out, take a look at Northern Ireland, the
>British province permanently under a low-grade civil war. Then look at
>the Baltic states (Lithuania is one of them). They have a major
>problem there now with the Russian minority. Czechoslovakia has just
>embarked on the process of becoming two separate states, hopefully
>without too much bloodshed. In Germany the two kinds of Germans are
>having severe difficulties to mount some understanding for eachother.
>In Sweden the Lapp population is ignored as much as possible, whereas
>it is very popular to tell jokes about peple from the southern
>provinces.

	Again, technically these can be considered different cultural
communities, and would be in most cases by a folklorist.  Nevertheless,
even when discussing two different types of Germans, even if you look at
only one of those groups (or even smaller subdivisions within them) the
fact is that the communities in question _are_ more ethnically homogenous
than most communities in the US.

>I'm sorry if I get preachy on the subject. Get a subscription of the
>National Geographic and you want have to be told this.

	Get a subscription anyway - it's a great mag :)

Regards,
Carl

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl Edlund Anderson	            	"Hefi ek ok aldri sva reitt vapn
canders@isr.harvard.edu			at manni at eigi hafi vidh kommit."
OR
anderso2@husc.harvard.edu			- Skarphedhinn Njalsson 
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