HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jdnicoll@watyew.uwaterloo.ca (James Davis Nicoll)
Subject: Re: Election sun rising
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 04:01:00 GMT

In article <1992Sep1.194348.26576@bcrka451.bnr.ca> nadeau@bnr.ca (Rheal Nadeau) writes:
>
>On the other hand, Mulroney does want to get re-elected; if that means
>piggy-backing on the constitutional deal, I wouldn't put it past him.
>It would show him to be totally morally bankrupt, but would that
>surprise anyone?
>
>Still, I suspect his best electoral move is to try for a resounding
>vote in the referendum, then call an election while this deal is
>still fresh in people's minds as a Real Success (TM).

	If he links the deal with re-electing him, he puts the
other parties at a disadvantage, since to oppose him would be
presented as opposing the deal. If  he waits, then he loses that
lever and people may think 'OK, the Confederation is tottering
on for another decade (Which is all these agreements seem good
for) so let's  turf him while  we can.' 

	If he waits and the referendum *fails*, then he is really
screwed at the polls. Better for him to link re-election and the
deal.

	If it fails, how will conflict of interest on the part
of Quebecois in the  Federal government negotiating devolution
be resolved? Seems like over-representation for people from a 
secessionist regime to be involved on both sides of the table.

							James Nicoll
From: yadallee@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Dave Shariff Yadallee)
Newsgroups: can.general
Subject: Re: Zundel
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 92 05:50:34 MDT
Organization: Edmonton Remote Systems #2, Edmonton, AB, Canada

clewis@bcarh1d7.bnr.ca (Chris Lewis) writes:

- In article <12727@hans> hans@Software.Mitel.COM (Hans Johnsen) writes:
- >dkmiller@unixg.ubc.ca (Derek K. Miller) writes:
- >>Zundel was charged under the "spreading of false news" law, and Keegstra
- >>under the "promoting hatred" law. They are different, and the Supreme
- >>Court has ruled that the first is too vague and violates freedom of speech
- >>provisions of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms;
-
- >I'll just add, in case you think that laws against lying cannot be
- >abused, that the law was (I'm fairly sure) written to protect the
- >monarchs from damaging rumours. While this may be a "nice" thing
- >to do, I think only Dave Yadallee would support a law like that.
-
  seeming that I got mentioned,  I am of the belief that once a law is enacted,
IT APPLIES TO ALL PEOPLE, not to a select group. To furthur follow this up, try
participating in soc.culture.british under any subject that mentions the
Royals.

Try not to be misquotive in the future, please??

Thank you.

Dave Shariff Yadallee (yadallee@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca,
userLIBE@mts.ucs.ualberta.ca)
God Save the Queen, God Bless us All! Remember! Jesus Saves!!
Treaty of Maastricht, synonymous with the Key to Armageddon.
Xref: sparky can.general:4272 can.politics:6420 soc.culture.canada:6266
Newsgroups: can.general,can.politics,soc.culture.canada
From: migod@turing.toronto.edu (Mike Godfrey)
Subject: Re: Election sun rising
Organization: CSRI, University of Toronto
Date: 3 Sep 92 18:22:39 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.160549.28424@mks.com> chris@mks.com (Chris Retterath) writes:
>Did you forget how John Turner became Prime Minister?
>He sure wasn't elected! Same with Miller in Ontario, and that 'first woman' premier
>in British Columbia. None of them were elected. So much for our system
>protecting us from unelected shmucks..

Yes, but they all did the honourable thing and called elections soon after
becoming party leader ... which is more than you can say for Nova Scotia's
current premier ... in fact, that's the only fair way for a ruling party to
change leaders ... but it does depend on people doing the right thing ...
someone tell the NS Tories this please.

-- 
Mike Godfrey	          "I will not expose the ignorance of the faculty.
Dept of Comp Sci, UofT     I will not expose the ignorance of the faculty."
migod@turing.toronto.edu			   -- The Simpsons

Xref: sparky can.general:4193 soc.culture.canada:6153
Newsgroups: can.general,soc.culture.canada
From: quoctp@cs.toronto.edu (Quoc Tuan Pham)
Subject: Re: Tragedy at concordia and a net-proposal to prevent furthur incidents
Organization: University of Toronto
Date: 28 Aug 92 01:38:08 GMT

In article <1992Aug27.133137.3270@mcshub.dcss.mcmaster.ca> masonp@physun.physics.mcmaster.ca (Peter Mason) writes:
>
>>This is not flame but just fact. Handguns (which were used by Fabrikant
>>in the shooting) are not at all "far too easy to get" legally in Canada.
...
>>and ask for a handgun permit. I could post an outline of the process
>>required to obtain a handgun permit if there is enough interest in this 
>>group.
>
>Please don't.  Please.

Please don't confuse me with facts, I'm in Physics!

>Guns suck.

Only if they're abused. On the other hand, bigotry always sucks.

>
>peace,
>
>
>Peter
>
>-- 
>----------------------------------
>Peter Mason
>masonp@nukie.physics.mcmaster.ca
>Hamilton, Ontario (ack! pthhht!), Canada


Newsgroups: can.general,can.politics,soc.culture.canada
From: nadeau@bnr.ca (Rheal Nadeau)
Subject: Re: Election sun rising
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 20:08:54 GMT

In article <1992Sep4.180742.5242@bnr.ca> alanw@bnr.ca writes:

>The Canadian Parliamentary system wouldn't be that bad, if only we could crack
>party discipline.

Once again:  Proportional representation!  If a party gets 40% of the
votes, they get 40% of the seats.  Period.  So no majority government
unless a party gets more than 50% of the votes, which is unlikely even
now, and would be even more unlikely in a proportional representation
system (how many people favour the Green Party, for example, but vote
PC or liberal because they feel voting Green would be throwing their
vote away?  But with PropRep, 1% of the vote would get the Greens 2 or
3 seats, so the vote WOULD count.)

A further advantage, illustrated above, would be to allow more
viewpoints to be represented in parliament, not just the very narrow
perspectives of the big three parties.

And finally, I believe this system would be more effective for
allocating seats to special interest groups than quotas - you want a
woman representative?  Vote for the Feminist Party!  You want a Native
rep?  Vote First Nations!  (In other words, YOU decide where your
priorities are, which special interest group best represents you.)

In fact, under such a system, I could create my own party, the Rhealist
Party of Canada, and if I can convince .5% of the voters ACROSS THE
WHOLE COUNTRY that I'm worth their vote, I'm in!  (Nah, never mind -
those guys have to wear suits and ties all the time...)

The Rhealist - Rheal Nadeau - nadeau@bnr
This has been a paid broadcast by the Rhealist Party of Canada
   Electoral Platform, Point 1:  Abolish suits and ties!
Newsgroups: can.general
From: buckland@ucs.ubc.ca (Tony Buckland)
Subject: Re: Zundel
Organization: University of B.C. Computing Services
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 23:01:34 GMT

In article <sbuckley.715155956@sfu.ca> sbuckley@fraser.sfu.ca (Stephen Buckley) writes:
>labach@acs.ucalgary.ca (Terence Michael Labach) writes:
>
>>In article <skenny.715018264@femto.engr.mun.ca> skenny@pico.engr.mun.ca (Shawn Kenny) writes:
>>He was charged with spreading "false news".  In essence, lying.  I can
>>think of some circumstances where lying should be against the law, but
>>this isn't one of them.
>
>  what would be such a circumstance?

 In an ad.  While under oath.  On various governmental and other
 applications.  In a professional (medical, engineering, etc)
 report.  Etc.
Newsgroups: can.general
From: cbbrowne@csi.uottawa.ca (Christopher Browne)
Subject: Re: Zundel
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, University of Ottawa
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 14:20:10 GMT

In article <skenny.715018264@femto.engr.mun.ca> skenny@pico.engr.mun.ca (Shawn Kenny) writes:
>In reference to the original posting, I didn't catch the story on the
>National but from memory Zundel wasn't charged under Canada's "hate law"
>but something else. The judge noted this in the concluding statement.
>Wasn't this the difference between the Kiegstra case and Zundel's?

Yup.  Zundel was charged with something called (roughly) "Uttering
false news."  Quite different from making statements that "promote
hatred towards an identifyable group."

I could be totally off base here, but I suspect that writing ANY kind
of fiction (a novel, maybe?) could be interpreted (under suitably
pessimal conditions) as "uttering false news."  For instance, the
movie JFK might potentially qualify, if it didn't have LOTS of
disclaimers ("This is FICTION.  FICTION.  Not necessarily real life.
FICTION.")

My feeling is that the "false news" charge was the wrong thing with
which to charge Zundel.  "Hate literature" would have been more
appropriate.
-- 
Christopher Browne
cbbrowne@csi.uottawa.ca
University of Ottawa
Master of System Science Program
Newsgroups: can.general
From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
Subject: Re: zundel
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 11:27:23 GMT

In article <sbuckley.714978223@sfu.ca> sbuckley@fraser.sfu.ca (Stephen Buckley) writes:
>  well i just saw knowlton nash.  on the national tonight, i saw that
>the supreme court has freed ernst zundel.  it seems it's a higher good
>to be able to say anything anyone wants regardless of its repurcussions.
>free speech is the greater moral than truth.  i'm pretty shocked.
>if anybody thinks this is a good ruling, can you please tell me why?
>

Without free speech and expression, it is impossible to discover
or find truth.  If one loves truth, one must embrace free speech
and fight censorship whereever it appears.

If truth is on your side, you don't need censorship.  Your ideas
will prevail in the marketplace of ideas.  Fight lies with truth
and better ideas, not with censorship.

Now if the Supreme Court would reverse its MacKinnon/Dworkinesque
rulings on pornography and hate literature.

Censorship also gives the perveyors of lies and hate a platform
for their ideas, and a stage to play the martyr and victim.

It is also better for the population not to be lulled into
complacency...good people must know bad people are out there...
censorship just drives the ideas underground and weakens our
defenses against the hate and lies.                

Gerald
Xref: sparky can.general:4163 soc.culture.canada:6104
From: beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca (Denis Beauregard)
Newsgroups: can.general,soc.culture.canada
Subject: Re: Tragedy at concordia and a net-proposal to prevent furthur incidents
Date: 26 Aug 92 12:47:05 GMT
Organization: Institut de recherche d'Hydro-Quebec, Varennes, Canada

In article <BtJK7o.5F8@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> srklump@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (elm) writes:
>In article <Te92PB3w165w@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca>, yadallee@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Dave Shariff Yadallee) writes:
>> 
>> Hello.  Unbelievable!! What is Montreal's Academic community coming to.  First
>> Polytechnique, now Concordia.  What is happening?
>> 
>> ...
>
>I don't believe that the fact that both incidents occurred in Montreal has
>anything deep about it.  The first was a psycho madman, which could happen
>anywhere (U of T, UBC, Memorial - why not?).  The second was (looks like)
>a very depressed and emotionally unstable man, which again could happen
>anywhere.  I doubt that being in Montreal had much to do with anything.
>
>I know this wasn't the main point of the article.
>
>Stephen. 

There is one common point : the fact a tragedy already occured in the
same town helped the second event in that the second person learned from
the first event.  But, because we had much less information about
previous events in other towns, other events had less influence.

-- 
  \_\    Denis Beauregard  *  internet:beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca
 /   \   Genealogiste officiel : Beauregard/Jarret/Jarest/Vincent
J   __>  Vient de paraitre : Andre Jarret et ses Ancetres
\_.-===  En vente par l'auteur                      Opinions ? Et pis non !
Xref: sparky can.general:4246 can.politics:6357 soc.culture.canada:6233
From: iaf@cl.cam.ac.uk (Innes Ferguson)
Newsgroups: can.general,can.politics,soc.culture.canada
Subject: Re: Election sun rising
Date: 2 Sep 92 12:11:50 GMT
Reply-To: iaf@cl.cam.ac.uk (Innes Ferguson)
Organization: U of Cambridge Computer Lab, UK

>Just to pull a "Devil's Advocate" for a minute...
>
>Mr. Mulroney is the leader of the PC party.  He is morally obligated to do
>his best to keep the party in power.  It would be morally bankrupt for him
>to throw away all benefit that might have been received for the timing of
>a constitutional deal.
>
>Question:  Do you think that the PM should time the election such that he
>is most likely to lose?  On what basis do you think that he should make
>such a decision?

Like so many other aspects of the political framework in Canada, I'm
guessing Canada imported the system of choosing election dates from 
the British. It's sad how British-like (read undemocratic) Canada's
political institutions are even today (the Senate being the prime example).

The solution, in this case, would be to copy the US: have fixed terms
of office. That way the debate about whether the PM should act primarily
in the interests of his/her party rather than in the interests of the people
(hence the word "democracy" and all that) wouldn't arise. (OK, they might
still, but the PM would have less flexibility.) I think it's "morally
bankrupt" (to use your terms) for a PM to choose a date on the
basis of party advantage. We're not dealing with team sports here
after all!

Cheers... Innes
From: Alain_Archambault@mindlink.bc.ca (Alain Archambault)
Newsgroups: can.general
Subject: LOOKING FOR SHARED ACCOM. IN VANCOUVER
Date: 31 Aug 92 22:47:06 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: can


I am a young man who is looking to share a house with 1 or 2 others.
I need one large room (preferably on the top floor and with
a bath room ) and I have plenty of household appliances to share...

I am looking for a house on the West Side of Vancouver with
rent in the $300-$600 range. References available if needed.

Please send me E-Mail at Alain_Archambault@mindlink.bc.ca







--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                          |
From :   Alain Archambault                |
         in Beautiful British Columbia,   |
         Canada                           |  God is dead, but Elvis is alive.
                                          |                     - Anonymous
E-Mail : Alain_Archambault@min
From: "steve hartwell" <steve.hartwell@canrem.com>
Newsgroups: can.general
Subject: zundel
Date: 1 Sep 92 19:43:50 EST
Reply-To: "steve hartwell" <steve.hartwell@canrem.com>
Distribution: can
Organization: Canada Remote Systems





     Original message from: TERENCE MICHAEL LABACH
     Original message to:   ALL

TM>  Newsgroup: can.general
TM> Message-ID: <LABACH.92Aug28085017@acs5.acs.ucalgary.ca>
TM>    Subject: Zundel
TM>
TM>In article <1992Aug28.112723.29850@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca>
TM>golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy) writes:
TM>> In article <sbuckley.714978223@sfu.ca> sbuckley@fraser.sfu.ca
TM>of its repurcussions. > >free speech is the greater moral than
TM>truth.  i'm pretty shocked. > >if anybody thinks this is a good
TM>ruling, can you please tell me why? >
TM>> Without free speech and expression, it is impossible to discover

TM>Yes!  Censorship is both a crude weapon and a bad substitute for
TM>> Fight lies with truth
TM>> and better ideas, not with censorship.

 =======================

 Hi all, I don't know who said what, but I am compelled finally to say
 something about something in this newsgroup.

 Freedom of Speech - without the right to yell fire in a public place
 if there isn't one
 As little censorship as possible, which is not the same thing as
 'anything goes'

 Are two fundamentals of democracy. And must be fought for, sometimes
 to the death if need be.

 Having said that, these fundamental rights can only be accorded to
 those people and groups who also believe in them too, and practice
 them as should we all.

 I am 42, and WASP. I have no personal experience of World War II.
 BUT, there is more than enough evidence and proof that Nazis
 Do Not Believe in Democracy, Freedom of Speech, nor wrongful
 or unrequired Censorship.

 My parents' generation went to War, fought and Died, to stop
 Nazis from 'purifying' the earth, as is going on in the Baltic
 regions right now - where one Canadian Peacekeeper has been killed,
 and several gravely wounded fighting that same type of Nazism.

 Nazism - irregardless of race, creed, religion, nation, where ever
 it pops up, used to be, and always should be - a crime against
 all of us. Like driving on the wrong side of the road, or murder,
 there are some things society just Cannot allow to go unpunished.

 I never thought that anything could make me feel so ill, so sick,
 as to be losing Canada to the United States,

 Until I saw a picture of triumphant Zundel, and his brown shirts,
 in the newspaper, with Canadian Flags on their shoulders.

 The possibility that Canada would be lost to Nazis, is worse.

 I say - to protect Freedom of Speech, and Democracy, rule in favour
 of the appealer - Zundel - based on his appeal.

 Then take 'em all out and shoot the sons of bitches.

 from       steve.hartwell@canrem.com

---
  ACCESS/MAIL 1.00 #0274  Zundel & Democracy is an Oxymoron !! eh
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario/Detroit, MI
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: can.general,soc.culture.canada
From: ohrd!rdowlati@cs.toronto.edu (Ramin Dowlati)
Subject: Re: Tragedy at concordia and a net-proposal to prevent furthur incidents
Organization: Ontario Hydro - Research Division
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 92 21:29:07 GMT

In article <92Aug26.204639edt.47888@neat.cs.toronto.edu> quoctp@cs.toronto.edu (Quoc Tuan Pham) writes:

> [stuff deleted]           Handguns (which were used by Fabrikant
>in the shooting) are not at all "far too easy to get" legally in Canada.
>In fact, Canada has one of the strictest law concerning legal ownership
>of handguns. 

Obviously there are alot of loop holes, and the laws are not strict enough.
Can anybody out there really justify the sale of fire arms in this society?
Surely, we can maintain some type of hunters association and isolate the
fire arms within them so they don't find their way into the cities.

-Cheers


A

C
fire arms 
Newsgroups: can.general
From: buckland@ucs.ubc.ca (Tony Buckland)
Subject: Re: Can an accident occur without someone breaking the law?
Organization: University of B.C. Computing Services
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 21:58:47 GMT

In article <braeuer.715059427@unixg.ubc.ca> braeuer@unixg.ubc.ca (Peter Braeuer) writes:
>Well... if the shop left a crucial part out of the steering assembly, or
>if they screw up your brakes in a not-obvious-until-it's-too-late fashion,
>or if the rom decides that your car is moving way too slowly...but that's
>hardly a common occurence (I hope) :^).
>Of course someone broke the law, but not the drivers.

 
 I think you'll find that your responsibility for keeping your vehicle
 in safe condition (whether or not you are driving it when the
 accident happens) extends to cover repairs done, as they almost always
 are, by someone else hired by you.  It may not seem fair, but it's
 something like a captain of a ship being responsible for everything
 done by anyone under her/his command; it's up to the captain to find
 ways of being fully informed of what everyone else does, and it's up
 to you to obtain the services of competent mechanics.  On the other
 hand, factory errors, such as the ROM error above, are, so far as I
 know, the responsibility of the manufacturer (anyone with some legal
 knowledge care to comment on whether you're responsible for your
 vehicle not being in safe condition because it was built that way?).
Newsgroups: can.general
From: charles@cs.UAlberta.CA (Charles Jobagy)
Subject: Re: zundel
Organization: University of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada
Distribution: can
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 15:37:30 GMT

steve.hartwell@canrem.com (steve hartwell) writes:





> Name withheld, of inquirer, but the question needs answering in the
> newsgroup.


>UG>z  Newsgroup: Private mail
>UG>z    Subject: zundel
>UG>
>UG>In article <1992Sep1.709.6540@dosgate> you write:
>UG>>
>UG>> My parents' generation went to War, fought and Died, to stop
>UG>> Nazis from 'purifying' the earth, as is going on in the Baltic
>UG>> regions right now - where one Canadian Peacekeeper has been
>UG>killed, > and several gravely wounded fighting that same type of
>UG>Nazism. >
>UG>Can you provide more information about this Baltic death?
>UG>(Was it in Finland, Estonia, Latvia, or Lithuania?)
>UG>Or, do you intend to use Balkan?
>UG>(Greece, Macedonia, ex-Yugoslavia?)

> Many thanks for asking me - you are absolutely correct, I goofed.
> Figures. First message I send in the newsgroup, and goof.

> I meant Balkan ex-Yugoslavia.

> Thankyou for bringing that to my attention.
> from       steve.hartwell@canrem.com

Don't worry about it, the TV news airheads are making the same mistake and
they are paid well to "keep you informed".

>---
> ~ ACCESS/MAIL 1.00 #0274 ~ Tagline frequencies are Open....
>--
>Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario/Detroit, MI
>World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044

Charles Jobagy
charles@cs.ualberta.ca
Xref: sparky can.general:4199 misc.consumers:15789
From: boris@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (boris)
Newsgroups: can.general,misc.consumers
Subject: Re: Pyramidal mail-order scam
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 03:21:17 CST
Organization: system 6626 BBS, Winnipeg MB

janick@bcrkd13.bnr.ca (Janick Bergeron) writes:

> I just received a letter for a pyramidal mail-order scam. It claims to
> be entirely legal (even says to refer to Title 18, Section 1302 of the
> US Postal and Lottery Code) but I'm convinced it is not (and this is
> Canada where the law may be different).
> 
> I have phoned Canada Post but they simply told me to send them a copy
> of the letter and envelopped it was sent in to them and the local
> police.
> 
> It seems that it was send to everyone in the villages in my area (easy
> to look-up address in a phone book and the postal code is the same for
> everyone) and I want to send a letter to the editor of the local
> newspaper to tell people not to fall for it. I'd like to support my
> letter with a reference to the actual law prohibiting these scams.
> 
> Can anyone help me there ?
> 
> The details are simple:
> 
> You send $5 (cash) to 4 different addresses to order a copy of the
> following reports (one per address):
> 
> "How to make $250,000 through multi-level mail order sales"
> "Major corporations and multi-level sales"
> "Sources for the best mailing lists"
> "Evaluating multi-level sales programs"
> 
> Then the usual stuff: put your name in position #1 then shift the other
> names down by one, dropping the name #4. Send copies of the reports you
> have received when people send you their orders.
> 
> Interesting twist: the instructions specifically ask you to keep
> sending more programs until you receive at least 15-20 orders for
> report #1 and 100 for report #2. They want to make sure this thing
> keeps going and garantees returns.
> 
> --
> Janick Bergeron    Bell-Northern Research, Ltd       Ph.: (613) 763-5457
> System Timing   P.O. Box 3511, Station C, Stop 049   Fax: (613) 763-7241
> Verification     Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, K1Y 4H7  email:  janick@bnr.ca 
> library quote; use quote.funny;                  use std.disclaimer.all;

sounds more like a chain letter in a different guise than a mail-order 
scam.

;--- (boris) a user of sys6626, running waffle 1.64
;E-mail: boris@sys6626.bison.mb.ca
;system 6626: 63 point west drive, winnipeg manitoba canada R3T 5G8