HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jcbbalt@rocky8.rockefeller.edu (JCB Editor)
Newsgroups: rec.food.drink
Subject: Re: How do you make a Cement Mixer?
Date: 19 Aug 92 20:16:05 GMT
Reply-To: jcb@rocky8 (JCB Editor)
Organization: Rockefeller Univ.,N.Y.C 10021

In article <1992Aug4.230441.1187@news.weeg.uiowa.edu> jwagner@news.weeg.uiowa.edu (Joseph F. Wagner) writes:
>Someone was telling me of drink called a Cement Mixer that had Bailey's in it.
>The effect of the drink was as you drank it, it turned into the consistency of
>cottage cheese. What else is in one of these?
>

Allow Me!!
I first read about the Cement Mixer on the Net on afternoon
and that evening got a brave soul to try one with me.
They are strabge indeed.
You take a shot of Bailey's , don't swallow it, then take
a shot of lime juice and swish them around in your mouth
and they turn into cottage cheese.
It's best to get unsuspecting bystanders to try this without 
warning them of the effects.
Also, the sour of the lime and the sweet of the Bailey's
make a pretty good combination.
carson
From: sbhattac@wissel.GBA.NYU.EDU (Shankar Bhattacharyya)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Hydrodgenizing ~100 lines (was Re: butter vs. margarine)
Date: 15 Aug 92 12:17:43 GMT
Organization: NYU Stern School of Business


In article <1992Aug14.134132.24556@nmr-z.mgh.harvard.edu> alexm@nmr-z.mgh.harvard.edu (Alex Milshteyn) writes:

>Example:

>     H     H H
>2.   C=C=C=C-C-R    - poliunsaturated fatty acids (FA)
>	 H       H        not all carbon atoms have all bonds saturated with
>                      hydrogen (multiple duuble bonds)
>     H   H   H        
>   H-C=C-C=C-C-R
>       H   H H

I have no particular argument with the general ideas in Alex's post, but
there are nits to pick. I'll pick one about molecular structures.

While the examples above would be polyunsaturated, neither form occurs in
food oils. All polyunsaturated fatty acids in food oils have the form:

        R-CH=CH-CH2-CH=CH- etc.

The double bonds are separated by exactly one methylene (i.e. CH2) group,
so the double bonds are not right next to one another. This is not a
trivial issue, by the way. It affects a vast range of reactivity. Apart
from the chemistry, "polyunsaturated fat" is defined, in the US, by law,
for labeling purpose, as the sum of the components of this type.

The first of Alex's examples probably does not occur in nature. It would be
very reactive. Structures of the type C=C=C  are called allenes. 
I seem to remember that there are natural allenes, but C=C=C=C seems like
a bit too much, at least for something you find in quantity.

The second of Alex's examples is conjugated, i.e. there are no saturated
carbons between the double bonds. I suspect that food oils contain traces
of such fatty acids, but that is all. Some vegetable oils, notably tung
oil, contain lots of conjugated acid units, but tung oil is not edible.
Makes for a hell of a furniture finish, though.

I'll go away now. This group is turning into rec.chem.lipid, and has
already gone full circle into conceptual errors that have already been
encountered, and corrected, before. I figure it is time for us nerds to
fade away.

- Shankar
From: skutvik@sleepy.UUCP ( ECMS TEST)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Slaw recipe
Keywords: While I'm at it . . .
Date: 22 Aug 92 21:24:54 GMT
Organization: Boeing Computer Services, Seattle

While I'm at it, here is a recipe for a fun looking salad...

.25 head green cabbage, sliced very thin
6 oz snow peas, stringed
3 large carrots, sliced thin and 2.5 inch long strips
1 TBS cider viniger
3 TBS olive oil
1 tsp ground cumin
1/8 tsp cayenne pepper
1/3 cup chopped walnuts 

combine first three ingredients.
mix all remaining except walnuts, and mix into slaw.
top with walnuts and serve
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: coleman@leland.Stanford.EDU (Michele Coleman)
Subject: VEGAN:  quick and easy black beans with tortilla chips
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 02:47:07 GMT

BLACK BEANS AND TORTILLA CHIPS

     This is a really quick meal I like to make for myself when I come home
tired from work, or so hungry I don't want to wait.

INGREDIENTS:

o  Tortilla chips
	I buy blue-corn tortilla chips because I think they have a better
flavor.  Use your favorite kind.

o  Instant black beans
	These come from Harmony Foods, I believe.  You add boiling water,
wait 5 minutes, and they're done.  I think they're delicious!

o  Tomato, chopped up

o  Salsa


DIRECTIONS
     Put chips down on a plate, and glop beans over it, then add tomato 
pieces and salsa.
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: tiff@kona.cs.ucla.edu (Tiffany Frazier)
Subject: Re: Holier Than Thow (was: Rich & Michael)
Organization: UCLA, Computer Science Department
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 17:33:29 GMT

Ted Wayn Altar (altar@beaufort.sfu.ca) wrote:
: >MacDougal, whose only flesh intake is the occasional Thanksgiving turkey
: >and that not even annually, explicitly states that he is NOT a vegetarian.  
: >He wants to distance himself from the zealots who will be berating someone
:     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
: >who is anything less then their pet idea of perfect, and I understand.
: > . . .
: Do you have access to some privilege information about the underlying
: motives of MacDougal?  Can you provide a quote to substantiate this
: claim?  I think we should all strive responsibly back up our claims,
: especially whenever an invidious or defamatory attibutions about a 
: particular person or group is being made.
: 
:                                        ted

Since I happen to have the book here in my office (really should take it
back home one of these days)... In _The McDougall Program_ p. 140 under
"Are McDougall Dieters Vegetarians?" he says:

"In my early years, I never liked to be called names.  The word vegetarian
(it.) has meanings in our society beyond describing a person who avoids
eating meat.  Many uninformed (and uncharitable) people consider
vegetarians to be slightly mad, part of the radical fringe.  Those
close-minded people are prejudiced, of course.  To escape having this
vegetarian label pinned on me, I have made a point of having roast
turkey on Thanksgiving Day, and sometimes on Christmas, too.  Needless
to say, I advertise this as evidence of being 'normal', and therefore
'thoroughly American'."

Is he wrong - no way.   Actually it seems that both "regular meat-eaters"
and vegetarians/vegans think that McDougall is wacko.   For, regular
meat-eaters it seems that they don't like all these medical claims as to
why they should change their diet (the ethical ones are "easier" to poo-poo).
For vegetarians/vegans it's invariably McDougall's ~10% of fat (by calories)
in your diet suggestion.  Well, there it is.

Personally I have been only lurking quietly on this newsgroup for the
last 7 months because I have "fallen off the wagon" during that time.
I have been unhappy with this, because I really love how I feel on the
McDougall diet and I was _really_ looking forward to having a McDougall
pregnancy.  (I'm 7 mos pregnant, BTW)  However, for the first 3 months,
greasy crappy food was all I could keep down and when I tried to shift
back after the morning sickness went away I just got dizzy and sick.
(I'm sure part of the problem is that I just can't be lacto-vegetarian
- milk has always given my headaches, diarrhea, etc).  I really wanted to
ask advice here, but decided - I don't think so.

Well, sci.med.nutrition should prove to be an interesting newsgroup, I
reckon.

-tiff

--
tiff@cs.ucla.edu
!{rutgers, ucbvax}!ucla-cs!tiff
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: eileen@Data-IO.COM (Eileen Manton)
Subject: Vegan CookBooks
Organization: Data I/O Corporation
Distribution: group 
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 21:59:02 GMT

Here are two Vegan CookBooks worth considering:

     The American Vegetarian Cookbook from the Fit for Life
     Kitchen, by Marilyn Diamond (copyright 1991, hardback)

     The High Road to Health, by Lindsay Wagner (that's the
     Bionic Woman, copyright 1991, hardback).

Both have good recipes and nutritional information.


Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: georgec@eng.umd.edu (George B. Clark)
Subject: Re: Vegan dilemma concerning pancreatic enzymes.
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 20:59:50 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland

In article <1992Aug20.080755.23350@btcs.bt.co.uk> traub@btcs.bt.co.uk (Michael Traub) writes:
>In article <1992Aug19.175736.4859@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
>>Your gut is already populated with its own ecosystem.
>>There's not much you can do about that.
>
>References?
>
>>Definitely transient.  Eating yogurt or taking acidophilus changes
>>the bowel flora somewhat--only slightly--but for only as long as
>>you keep ingesting it.
>
>References?
>
>>If it's enhancing your health, it's because it's an expensive placebo.
>
>What proof do you have for this statement?
>
>You seem to be yet another meat-eating interloper like Rich Young
>who has decided to "save the world" by cleansing vegetarians/vegans
>of their "uninformed" ideas.
>
>Michael Traub


When Steve gives you the truth, you holler for references. Yet when
some layperson, who doesn't have any idea of what they are talking
about makes a sensational claim, you are quick to believe.

I just don't understand.

This colon cleansing stuff has been around for 100 years, and there
is no data anywhere to show there is any merit to it. In fact, this
same topic was recently discussed in detail on sci.med, and not one
single health-care professional defended it. 

It's incredible that anyone with any education believes colon
cleansing and other such nonsense contributes to good health.
It's scares me to realize how gullible people are concerning
matters of personal health. No wonder the quack industry is
booming, and you are its victims.
From: mdk@michael.udev.cdc.com (Mike D. Kail)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Thanks to everyone who replied to my speech query
Date: 20 Aug 92 11:50:00 GMT
Reply-To: mdk@michael.udev.cdc.com (Mike D. Kail)
Organization: Control Data Systems

I would like to thank all of the kind people who took the time
to send me ideas for my persuasive speech.  I have received more
than enough information for a mere 5-7 minute speech, but have
enjoyed reading all of the info as it has increased my own 
education on vegetarianism.

Thanks Again!!!

-- 
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
| Mike D. Kail                          mdk@udev.cdc.com        |
| Control Data Systems, Inc.                                    | 
| 4201 North Lexington Avenue           (612) 482-2942 (W)      |
| Arden Hills, MN  55126                (612) 781-9880 (H)      |
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
| "Fast or slow, no matter what the pace, I know I can win."    |
|  - Morceli                                                    |
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
From: das@voodoo.boeing.com (Deb Schwartz)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Yves Burger Burgers
Date: 14 Aug 92 17:25:30 GMT
Organization: Boeing Graphics project, Bellevue WA

In article <14282@mindlink.bc.ca> Christine_Code@mindlink.bc.ca (Christine Code) writes:
>
>We are both very fond of Yves Veggie Wieners and Yves Deli Slices.   Mmmm!
>Family members who tried those products thought they were the regular old
>meat-based ones.
>
I love the Wieners, especially the chili ones.  With whole-wheat wiener buns,
organic sourkraut (sp) and relish, mustard and ketchup - great quick meal.  I
take some with me whenever I go to a barbeque (although you really have to
watch them carefully on a grill - they go from cooked to burned very fast), 
and have persuaded several carnivore types to try them - responses have
ranged from a surprised 'They're not bad!' to 'I like them better than real
hot dogs'.

Debbie Schwartz // das@voodoo.boeing.com  // or uunet!bcstec!voodoo!das 
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: young@serum.kodak.com
Subject: Re: Nutritional information
Originator: young@sasquatch
Reply-To: young@serum.kodak.com
Organization: Clinical Products Division, Eastman Kodak Company
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 92 12:44:08 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.175810.957@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk> jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin) writes:

[...]

>Does anyone know what proportion of avocado fats is saturated/
>unsaturated/monounsaturated?

   According to the U.S. Department of Agriculture:

	1 California avocado (173 grams without skin and seed) contains:

	   4.5 grams of saturated fat
	   19.4 grams of mono-unsaturated fat
	   3.5 grams of poly-unsaturated fat

	1 Florida avocado (304 grams without skin and seed) contains:

	   5.3 grams of saturated fat
	   14.8 grams of mono-unsaturated fat
	   4.5 grams of poly-unsaturated fat

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>|<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Rich Young                             | Phone: (716) 253-7176
Eastman Kodak Company                  | FAX: (716) 253-7254
Clinical Products Division             | Internet: young@serum.kodak.com
100 Carlson Road                       |
Rochester, New York, USA   14653-9122  | These are MY opinions, not Kodak's!!!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>|<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Don't get angry, get accurate information.
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar)
Subject: Re: Holier Than Thow (was: Rich & Michael)
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 06:48:05 GMT

>A lot of people try to cut down on flesh in their diets to some extent or
>another.  Sometimes they call themselves vegetarians but "only have a
>little fish (or poultry or whatever) now and then"; at other times they
>themselves are unwillingly labeled vegetarians by those around them.
>And every time this comes out, they are subjected to rude diatribes.  The
>net argues not with their sensitivity to other living beings, their desire
>te have less environmental inpact on this earth, or their wish to live a
>healthier life, but rather with the fact that they are not 100.00% squeaky
>clean in their eyes.
>Which really sucks.  

I really don't know what you are talking about.  Can you substantiate this
charge?  What "really sucks", to use your term, are the fast and loose 
criticisms and denigrations made about these vegetarians who so generously 
give of their time to provide helpful information, original recipes and
reasoned replies.  



>Like religious bigots, overrighteous vegetarians have no sympathy and
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>appreciation for people who are trying in their own way to accomplish
>similar goals.

Here we go again.  RUDE remarks and derisive INSULTS.  I least I am
here responding to a direct quote.  Can you do the same?  If not,
then all we have here is an unsubstantiated and unwarranted calumny.


>MacDougal, whose only flesh intake is the occasional Thanksgiving turkey
>and that not even annually, explicitly states that he is NOT a vegetarian.  
>He wants to distance himself from the zealots who will be berating someone
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>who is anything less then their pet idea of perfect, and I understand.
> . . .
Do you have access to some privilege information about the underlying
motives of MacDougal?  Can you provide a quote to substantiate this
claim?  I think we should all strive responsibly back up our claims,
especially whenever an invidious or defamatory attibutions about a 
particular person or group is being made.

                                       ted
From: lovato@odin.mda.uth.tmc.edu (James Lovato)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Help a new vegetarian
Date: 12 Aug 1992 19:34:51 GMT
Organization: University of Texas M.D. Anderson Cancer Center
Originator: lovato@odin

Hi
    I am not a vegetarian (don't hit 'n' yet), but my sister is. She's
only been on this diet about two months. Nobody else in our family is,
so she doesn't really know what to do.
    She is 16 and very active athletically. She is a very good
softball player (that's not just big brother bias), and she is going
to start running cross-country track.
    She needs to keep her weight up through cross-country season for
softball. I want to make sure she stays (becomes) heathy.
    I need general guidelines and advice. Any specific recipes should
be quick and easy to make (no fancy ingredients).
    Please e-mail me with responses (I don't read this group).
    Thanks.
                                            James Lovato
                                            lovato@odin.mda.uth.tmc.edu
Xref: sparky rec.food.veg:7733 alt.support.diet:1696
From: tjfeue@bb1t.monsanto.com
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: I love red meat!  I love sugar!
Date: 12 Aug 92 15:03:45 CST
Organization: Monsanto Company, St. Louis, MO

In article <KRAWCHUK.92Aug11130819@phecda.cs.sfu.ca>, krawchuk@cs.sfu.ca (Bj Krawchuk) writes:
> (J024330 ) wrote:

[lots of suggestions deleted]

> 3) Cheat by using good fats in your stir fries or whatever, like Olive Oil.

Just a little additional suggestion:  Don't get the Wok (pan, whatever) as
hot as you normally would using another oil such as peanut oil since the
olive oil has a much lower smoking point.  But there's really no substitute 
for olive oil in the flavor category :-).

  TED FEUERBACH   Scientific Systems Consultant  Trilogy Consulting, Inc. 
  Lake St. Louis, MO        (314) 537-6603       tjfeue@bb1t.monsanto.com
  Disclaimer:  The opinions expressed herein are MY OWN and obviously not
  the opinions of Trilogy, Monsanto or either of my two ex-wives.
From: therese@garnet.berkeley.edu ()
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: VEGAN:  Orange Pancakes
Date: 17 Aug 1992 17:07:24 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu
Originator: therese@garnet.berkeley.edu

This recipe is adapted from one in the Tassajara bread book.  It
wasn't vegan to begin with, but since I didn't have any eggs in
the house it ended up being so!

Orange Pancakes

1 cup whole wheat flour
1 cup unbleached white flour
1/2 tsp baking soda
1/2 tsp salt
1/2 cup applesauce (I substituted this for the two eggs)
2 Tbls vegetable oil (I used canola)
2 cups orange juice

Mix dry ingredients together.  Make a well and pour wet ingredients
in.  Stir just enough to mix, having some lumps is okay.  Cook on a
griddle.  Top with your choice of stuff, my husband had them with
maple syrup and margerine, I just spread jam on them (raspberry).  You
could also top them with fresh fruit, etc.

Therese

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: traub@btcs.bt.co.uk (Michael Traub)
Subject: Re: the term "vegetarian"
Organization: BT Customer Systems, Brighton, UK
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 10:05:32 GMT

In article <BtDDFD.2sE@acsu.buffalo.edu> marcotte@acsu.buffalo.edu (Brian Marcotte) writes:
>In article <oeZNehC00VpNI990Ff@andrew.cmu.edu> dm3o+@andrew.cmu.edu (David F. McWade) writes:
>>I recently e-mailed the person who puts together the vegetarian FAQ
>>about including such pseudo-terms as "semi-vegetarian",
>>"pesco-vegetarian", etc.  I found those terms offensive basically
>>because use of such terms perpetuates the situation you describe above. 
>>Unfortunately, the FAQ-maker (I forget his name) refused to remove the
>>terms on my suggestion (my argument wasn't as coherently stated as yours
>>is, however).  
>>
>>I would, therefore, like to publicly suggest that those terms be removed
>>from the vegetarian FAQ, please.  Perhaps we can have some debate on
>>this.
>
>I'd like to suggest that the terms "semi-vegetarian" and
>"pesce-vegetarian" can help PREVENT this confusion.

I agree with Brian on this. Semi-vegetarian is a *good* term to
use. I feel at ease when someone tells me they are semi-vegetarian.
It means that they are thinking about it and that they won't complain
when they come over for dinner and find no meat on our table (believe
me some do). I have far more friends who are semi-vegetarian than who
are vegetarian, and more friends who are vegetarian than who are vegan.
With *all* of them I know I can get a decent vegan meal if I go to
their house for dinner. The same cannot be said for those friends who
don't make any claims towards vegetarianism.

I disagree on the term pesce-vegetarian. While I personally used to
be "vegetarian+fish" in the early days (kept my mum happy) I don't
think the term pesce-vegetarian provides any enlightenment whatsoever.
These people are just semi-vegetarian.


-- 
Michael Traub
From: dsouza@hplred.HP.COM (Roy D'Souza)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 20:43:08 GMT
Subject: Re: Nutritional information
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg

>/ hplred:rec.food.veg / young@serum.kodak.com /  5:44 am  Aug 15, 1992 /
>>Does anyone know what proportion of avocado fats is saturated/
>>unsaturated/monounsaturated?
>
>   According to the U.S. Department of Agriculture:
>
>	1 California avocado (173 grams without skin and seed) contains:
>
>	   4.5 grams of saturated fat
>	   19.4 grams of mono-unsaturated fat
>	   3.5 grams of poly-unsaturated fat
>
>	1 Florida avocado (304 grams without skin and seed) contains:
>
>	   5.3 grams of saturated fat
>	   14.8 grams of mono-unsaturated fat
>	   4.5 grams of poly-unsaturated fat
>

Based on Rich's numbers:

A california avocado contains 27.4 grams in fat (27.4 * 9 = 246.6 calories)
out of a total of 173 grams ((27.4 * 9) + ((173 - 27.4) *4)) = 829 calories.)
Hence, in a California avocado, the percentage of fat by weight is 16%, and
the percentage of fat calories is 30%.
In a Florida avocado, using these same calculations, the percentage of fat
by weight is 8% (or by calories is 17%.)

This percentage is much better than for most animal-based food sources, right?
I have naively assumed that everything that is not fat is protein or carb.
(Not factored in fiber, for example.) Even then, are the numbers for avocados
worse than for, say, red meat?

Not to mention that almost all animal fats contain coholesterol, and
pesticides/herbicides/toxins that have accumulated over an animal's lifetime.
Furthermore, I suspect that extracting the fatty acids from the
animal fat tissue in the human digestive system is probably inefficient,
and creates undesirable byproducts.

Lastly, avocados are usually eaten raw, hence the poly-unsaturated
components have not been given a chance to convert into carcinogenic
polyesters.

I guess the point I am trying to make is that the original poster would be
doing her brother more good by emphasizing the 'vegan' aspect over the
'fat content' aspect.

Making a change from a typical American diet to veganism can be difficult.
Since fat content in the diet contributes to taste, would it not make more
sense to emphasize the vegan aspect over the 'fat' aspect?
After all, the vegan sources of fatty acids appear so incredibly
benign when compared to ingesting animal tissue.


Roy