HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rooney@cheshire.oxy.edu (Michael Sean Rooney)
Subject: Re: D&D and political correctness
Followup-To: rec.games.frp.dnd, talk.arguments.pointless
Summary: gentle, barely warm flame
Keywords: stop moaning about pseudo-PC
Organization: Occidental College, Los Angeles, CA 90041 USA.
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 22:17:37 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.162635.3253@aa.cad.slb.com> jackson@ess43.Berkeley.EDU (Jeff Jackson) writes:
>|> In article <65927@cup.portal.com>, Tagi@cup.portal.com (Tagi Mordred
>|>    Nagashiva) writes:
>|> 
>
>|> 
>|>    Enscribing a scroll requires the mage to essentially memorize the spell from
>|> hir book, have material components at hand, and essentially 'cast' the spell
>|> into the scroll as sHe inscribes it, which is why the process takes (in my
>|> world) one hour/spell level, plus the required inks, parchment, and quiet area
>|> to work....
>|> 
>|> > Thyagi
>
>
>    Well, I see that even fantasy worlds are not immune to the PC effect.
>
>
>
>       - JWJ

	"PC effect"??  What's that?

	Oh, JWJ means considering that not all persons are men and that
our language should reflect that fact.  What a terrifying prospect.   

	Let's not bicker pseudo-politics on this group, please?

Cordially,

Michael S. Rooney
From: z_copeab@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Thri-kreen PC (DARK SUN)
Date: 26 Sep 92 17:38:29 CST
Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University

In article <1992Sep25.202109.14375@Princeton.EDU>, tao@ginger.princeton.edu (Terry Tao) writes:
> |>
> |> 	Well, IF all four attacks hit, then they would do 4-16 points of 
> |> damage. However, the chances of all four attacks hitting (THAC0 16) is
> |> less than 1%. With a two-handed sword, the chance is 25% (damage 3-18).
> |> With two long swords (damage 1-8 each) the chance of hitting with both is
> |> about 6.25%. All of these have roughly the same average damage (10 for claws,
> |> 10.5 for 2H-sword, and 9 for long swords). Sorry, but he has a better chance to
> |> do damage if he's using a single large weapon.
> |> 	(note: even if you change the THAC0, the above trend still holds)
> 
> Your mathematics is strange.  4 attacks at 1d4 is marginally better than two attacks at 1d8.  Let's use your Thac0 16

	Well, no, it isn't that strange. The hit chances are correct, and the
conclusion (last line of the first paragraph) *is* correct.
                                                                      
Brandon Cope
From: cptully@med.unc.edu (Christopher P. Tully,Pathology,62699)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Trolls' regeneration
Date: 30 Sep 92 18:07:59 GMT
Reply-To: cptully@med.unc.edu
Organization: UNC-CH School of Medicine

In article 92Sep28173905@despair.cs.uchicago.edu, covin@tartarus.uchicago.edu (David Covin) writes:
>In article <1992Sep28.212012.6975@Princeton.EDU> tao@potato.princeton.edu (Terry Tao) writes:

{edited for simplicity}

>  freezing to death-- I'd be tempted to rule that trolls can be frozen
>            solid and thawed out again intact, just because I think
>            trollsicles are a neat idea, reminiscent of the old Horror
>            Comics thing of having a caveman (or horrible beast) frozen
>            in ice come alive again after it's thawed out. 
>
>David Covin                           covin@despair.uchicago.edu

David-

No offense, but you're obviously not a biologist.  I'm absolutely sure
(I haven't played in fffaaarrr too long) but I seem to recall that
trools are flesh and blood like the rest of us (if I'm wrong don't
flame me - just comment and ignore the rest of what I have to say :).
Anyway, there is one major problem with frezing living cells - unless
you go to extreme lengths and are very careful, the water in the cells
forms little tiny ice crystals that lyse (cut open) the cells.  I would
tend to think that doing this to any creature (magical or not) would
have rather drastic effects on its health!

However this is fantasy, so go ahead and have trollsicles if you want -
nobody said we had to follow the rules of reality, but they do make god
guidelines sometimes.

Either way you go, have FUN!
Chris
---
*********************************************************************
Chris(topher) P. Tully				<cptully@med.unc.edu>
Univ. of North Carolina - Chapel Hill		1122 Vic Charles Dr.
Department of Pathology				Raleigh, NC 27606
CB# 7525			work: (919) 966-2699
Chapel Hill, NC 27599		hone: (919) 851-8816
*********************************************************************
I get paid for my opinions, but that doesn't mean that UNC or anybody
                     else agrees with them.
From: boelter3945@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Swords of Sharpness and Incredible Constitution
Date: 28 Sep 92 11:24:27 -0500
Summary: Trolls, Sword of Sharpness, High constitutions, and other stuff.
Keywords: Trolls, regeneration, sword, sharpness, constitution
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

In article <1992Sep27.233456.10325@beaver.cs.washington.edu>,
   guido@cs.washington.edu (Guido Hunt) writes:
> [...story about finding Sword of Sharpness and what to do with it...]

   Not being a medical student, I can't profess to know everything about this
(or anything, for that matter).  But here's how I would do it.

   Losing an appendage, _immediate_ system shock check to avoid falling
unconscious.  Each round unattended, lose x hp due to blood loss (where x is
the original # of hp lost due to the hit), and another system shock check at a
temporary -1 on CON (cumulative).

   Major tending to will be needed to stop this process, taking one round with
either a proficiency in healing (can't just 'patch up' this one), or a spell of
at least Cure Serious level (ie: Cure Light or Potion of Healing will not
work).

> Two, we have a VERY healthy elf in our group, he has a 20 con.

   Dang, that's healthy.  Considering Elves start with -1 on their CON, getting
to 20 is an interesting feat.  Besides, doesn't this violate racial maximums as
well? (Didn't think you could do that, at least not with permanent magic items,
like tomes. Should work with temporary items though).
> Our question is
> what if he sustains enought damage to take him below -10, does he die or
> does his regen still work and eventually he will get back up like a troll.

   No, reaching -10 will still cause death.  In fact, a troll hitting -10 will
still dies as well, at least in my ruling.  It's the fact that they regenerate
that makes it difficult to bring them to -10. :-)

> Thats all for now...
> -Guido Hunt

   That's my reply for now, too. :-)

                                        John "Nightwind" Boelter

--
*******************************************************************************
* John Boelter        a.k.a. Nightwind            boelter3945@iscsvax.uni.edu *
* Organizational Manager and contact person for everything and then some.     *
*******************************************************************************
* The individual who said we only use 10%  * The first 90% of a task takes    *
* of our brain's mental capacity, was      * 90% of the time, and the last    *
* probably 90% incorrect.                  * 10% takes the other 90%.         *
*            -Unknown comic on A&E-        *   -99 rule of Project Schedules- *
*******************************************************************************
From: jvogel@math.rutgers.edu (jeff vogel)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Lich
Date: 30 Sep 92 19:36:25 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

abistak@nyx.cs.du.edu (Andrew Bistak) writes:
>Our party consists of a Paladin(lev 9)/Bard(lev 10)/Fighter-Mage ( lev 7 7)
>and a thief unfortunately. Heres the problem, does anyone know how to
>defeat a damn Lich? Some stats/weaknesses would be nice.
>regards, Andrew

The generally accepted procedure is as follows:
	1. Hit it with a sword. (or stick, club, arrow, chees grater, 
	   whatever's handy)
	2. Take a lot of damage.

Repeat if necessary, and not dead.

Other, more exotic procedures include:
	1. Casting a fly spell on a high-level cleric, and having him/her
	   fly up to a cloud and turn the moisture in it into holy water.
	   Lure the lich outside, perhaps with a highly stacked female
	   lich. Have a druid make the cloud rain. End of lich.
	2. Send the lich an exploding candy-gram.
	3. Throw a portable hole over it, then toss in a bag of holding.

See? It's easy? All it takes is a little creativity.


						- Jeff Vogel
						  Rutgers
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Date: Fri,  2 Oct 1992 14:52:26 -0400 
From: "Jordan M. Wolbrum" <jw67+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Trolls' regeneration
	<1992Oct2.123826.11192@waikato.ac.nz>

 
>Player swings sword and cuts troll in half.
>Player now faces two trolls of half strength (add both trolls regeneration, so
>					     they are more than half strength).

This makes a sword of sharpness a dangerous weapon to use against
trolls, doesn't it?

Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: bryan@uhura1.uucp (Bryan Curnutt)
Subject: Re: Rary's Mnemonic Enhancer loophole
Reply-To: bryan%uhura1@uunet.uu.net
Organization: Stoner Associates, Inc./DREM Incorporated, Houston Texas
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1992 15:23:49 GMT

In article <1992Sep25.141948.11028@waikato.ac.nz> cdb@waikato.ac.nz (Craig D. Beere) writes:
>> Second, it takes about 1 hour to
>> memorize a 4th level spell and about 15 minutes to memorize a 1st level
>> spell.  
>No again, 10 minutes per spell level.

This is an example of why it's important, when you're asking questions
about rules, to specify whether you're using 1st edition or 2nd.

Under 1st ed., it takes 15 minutes per spell level to memorize spells.

Under 2nd ed., it takes 10 minutes per spell level.

Under 1st ed., it takes 4 hours of rest (usually, but not necessarily,
sleep) before you can memorize 1st or 2nd level spells, 6 hours for
3rd or 4th level, 8 hours for 5th or 6th level, 10 hours for 7th or
8th level, and 12 hours for 9th level.

Under 2nd ed., the only spell-rest rule that I can find is "The wizard
must have a clear head gained from a restful night's sleep."  (Presumably,
you can't memorize spells when you have a hangover. :-)
-- 
Any opinions above are mine, and do not necessarily reflect the views of SAI.
Bryan Curnutt
bryan%uhura1@uunet.uu.net
From: boelter3945@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: A bunch of questions.
Date: 30 Sep 92 09:39:38 -0500
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

In article <1992Sep29.190303.19554@ugle.unit.no>, skomedal@solan.unit.no (Knut
   Torstein Skomedal) writes:
> 
> Another "minor" issue under debate in our group is the immunities of dragons.
> A red dragon is immune to fire damage from birth. Does that mean that it's
> immune to all sorts of firebased magic? (fireball, flamestrike, etc ad
> infinitum)  I'm inclined to say yes. I've got a collection of 71(?)
> different species of dragons by now(not counting those in the
> net.monster.manual), so the question could quickly become important.

   I have always gone under the ruling that dragons who use a particular breath
weapon are immune to any natural form of that weapon, and if less than adult
age, take half/quarter damage from the magical variety or no damage if adult or
higher in age (ie: completely immune).

> That's all for now folks. More will probably follow later.
> Knut Skomedal

                                        John "Nightwind" Boelter

--
*******************************************************************************
* John Boelter        a.k.a. Nightwind            boelter3945@iscsvax.uni.edu *
* Organizational Manager and contact person for everything and then some.     *
*******************************************************************************
* The individual who said we only use 10%  * The first 90% of a task takes    *
* of our brain's mental capacity, was      * 90% of the time, and the last    *
* probably 90% incorrect.                  * 10% takes the other 90%.         *
*            -Unknown comic on A&E-        *   -99 rule of Project Schedules- *
*******************************************************************************
From: boelter3945@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Trolls' regeneration
Date: 29 Sep 92 15:33:00 -0500
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

In article <1992Sep29.144457.26331@Princeton.EDU>, tao@potato.princeton.edu
   (Terry Tao) writes:
> I suddenly have a bad vision of trolls enchanted with permanent resist fire
> spells and some form of protection against acid..

   Hmm, this could be nasty.  A wizard somehow gets some trolls to work for
him, and sets them up with Ring or Potion or spell of Resist Fire, a Scroll of
Protection from Acid, and then a Haste spell (ouch, 6 _strong_ attacks per
round? ) Nasty indeed!

> SOMETHING MUST BE ABLE TO
> KILL THEM? eating them should (digestive acids), what about putting a troll
> in a blender?

   A blender?? *slightly sick look*  Reminds me of Gremlins and the kitchen
scene (one in the blender/mixer, one in the microwave.. *ick*)

   Eating them, well, if you could _manage_ to get the horrid taste down, the
acids in the stomach would do it, yes.  As for a blender, that won't work,
that's just physical damage, which they can regenerate.

> if the trolls ability is magical, can it be DISPELLED or temporarily negated?

   It's not, it's innate to their race and can't be dispelled.

                                        John "Nightwind" Boelter

--
*******************************************************************************
* John Boelter        a.k.a. Nightwind            boelter3945@iscsvax.uni.edu *
* Organizational Manager and contact person for everything and then some.     *
*******************************************************************************
* The individual who said we only use 10%  * The first 90% of a task takes    *
* of our brain's mental capacity, was      * 90% of the time, and the last    *
* probably 90% incorrect.                  * 10% takes the other 90%.         *
*            -Unknown comic on A&E-        *   -99 rule of Project Schedules- *
*******************************************************************************
From: ccoprdj@prism.gatech.EDU (Jorge Diaz)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Critical Hits
Keywords: complexity
Date: 6 Oct 92 20:25:21 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

In article <1992Oct5.160921.29563@aio.jsc.nasa.gov> kjenks@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov writes:

Well, I'm not a DM, but I am a player, and I'm glad our DM uses critical
hits (although he doesn't use the tables that people have been posting,
he uses the simple "double damage on a natural 20" method).

>Critical hits/fumbles are only part of the fantasy literature on which
>D&D is based as a bad plot device.  If Merry and Pippin were in
>hand-to-hand combat with a Nozgul, do you honestly think they'd have
>ANY chance of winning?  I thought not.

No?  What about Smaug?  You wouldn't call an arrow shot taking down
a dragon a critical hit?  Or did this dragon only have 1-8 hit points?

>I challenge you, nay, I DARE you, as DM's, to play a few games without
>your crit/fumble system.  I guarantee that you won't miss it.  Your
>fighters will live longer, they won't throw their hard-won magic
>weapons away, and you'll all have more time to do some role-playing.
>Isn't that more fun than the old hack-and-slash?

Well, when a bunch of first level characters ran into a troll, and the
only thing that saved us was a critical hit that did double damage,
I was very thankful that our DM used the system.  What's wrong with it?
You think it makes more sense for a 7th level fighter to just walk into
a room with 20 orcs and fight them hand to hand, because he knows that
he's invincible?


-- 
Jorge Diaz                       | "I want you to remember, Clark... in all
Georgia Institute of Technology  |  the years to come, in your most private
Office of Information Technology |  moments...my hand at your throat.  I want
ccoprdj@prism.gatech.edu         |  you to remember the one man who beat you."
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se (Bertil Jonell)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Deaths Door
Date: 1 Oct 92 07:27:07 GMT
Organization: Chalmers University of Technology

In article <1992Sep30.170430.1@vx24.cc.monash.edu.au> edb892rsft@vx24.cc.monash.edu.au writes:
>I was just wondering what effects apply to a character to is reduced to
>a hit point total of between 0 and -9?

  I just felt the need to quote the player of Picka the Gnome "No, I'm a 
halfling, not a Gnome!" Thief. The latter had been cut down and gone through
multiple web-burn cycles:

  "I stopped counting at -13, and that was some rounds ago!"

:)

-bertil-
--
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."
		"Revive the Swedish-Madagascan Brigand Pact!"
From: joniteig@flipper.pvv.unit.no (Jon Inge Teigland)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Dual classing
Date: 6 Oct 92 10:54:13 GMT
Organization: University of Trondheim, Norway

z_copeab@ccsvax.sfasu.edu writes:
: In article <1992Oct3.140621.13514@ultb.isc.rit.edu>, swv3752@ritvax.isc.rit.edu (Morning Reaper) writes:
: 	If you want to run the Game According to T$R. I and many others don't,
: and are quite willing to break with the printed rules when they don't make a
: great deal of sense. 
: 	Also, by the logic of T$R's argument, you could also say that the
: fighter should loose his HPs -- they represent luck, skill, etc. after the
: first level. The reason why fighters have more HPs than mages is because they
: are combat trained. Thus, the fighter moving to mage should have to forfeit all
: HPs, since they are part of his 'old' character knowledge. The fact that T$R
: exempts this creates, IMHO, a severe flaw in their argument, as HP totals are
: *very* class-dependant.
: 
One thing I have thought about for a long time:
Consider a Character with str 17, con 14, int 17 and wis 17, and
consider two different ways he can dualclass.
1: First he becomes a lvl 9 fighter, then he dualclasses to mage,
   becoming lvl 9 mage, and lastly he dualclasses to cleric, becoming
   lvl 10 cleric.
2: First he becomes a lvl 9 mage, then he dualclasses to fighter,
   becoming lvl 9 fighter, and lastly he dualclasses to cleric,
   becoming lvl 10 cleric.
In both the two cases he will be able to use all the powers of a lvl 9
fighter, lvl 9 mage, and lvl 10 cleric, and basically one should never
be able to tell the difference. However, in the first case he will
have an average of 51.5 hp ( 5.5*9 +2) while in the second case he will
have an average of 24.5 hp ( 2.5*9 +2).
Does anyone think this is fair ? Have anyone done anything to change or
improve it in any way ?

Jon Inge
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: mage@en.ecn.purdue.edu (Mage)
Subject: Killing Liches with Staves of the Magi, HA!!!
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 92 22:21:17 GMT

>In article <Qen9xn200Uh_051CEr@andrew.cmu.edu>, "Jordan M. Wolbrum" <jw67+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>> What's all the commotion about a Lich?  It's just a monster, not even
>> the most powerful undead!  Now a Type VI demon, that's a monster!  
>> 
>> If you really need to kill a lich, have your henchman break the Staff of
>> the Magi near it.  It will never survive.
>
I have to say, I have seen some power-gamers, but you take the cake.
I will explain my arguement in three parts.
  1) Who has a Staff of the Magi to waste on killing a lich in the
     first place, perhaps as a last ditch effort, but never as a 
     killing technique.
  2) Your "Henchman" had better be a magic-user, because the act of
     a retributive strike requires more than the actual breaking
     of the staff, it is a magical property that the magic-user
     may invoke.
  3) See the DM's guide and I'm sure given time I can reference
     plenty of other materials, Your henchman is not very likely
     to throw away his life so that you may collect the lich's
     hoard, as a matter of fact you merely requesting such an act
     is a break of faith with him and one that any other henchmen
     you have are not likely to take easily.  A henchman serves
     you but is not your slave and only the most fanatical would
     protect you with their lives, but never attack a lich for
     you in the way you describe.
I have seen more of the Power-Gamer attitude in the many years
I have played the game than I sometimes can tend to bear, Most
of the veteran gamers, especially those who enjoy the heroic 
campaign and the saga, would agree most heartily with this
letter.
My apologies to the other readers of the rec.games.frp.dnd.
I felt tat this needed to be addressed netwide rather than
in a personal flame.
Thanks for your time and consideration.
Tony aka mage.

PS> calling a lich just a monster is like calling a lambourghini just a car.
From: jw67+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jordan M. Wolbrum)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Critical Hits
Date: 5 Oct 92 04:56:09 GMT
Organization: Freshman, CIT general, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

This is my critical hit/fumble method.

If a natural 20 is rolled, and a natural 19 or less would hit, the
attack does 2X damage.  Everything is doubled except poison and
spells/psionics.

Example:

Runeweaver attacks a kobold with his +1 dagger, and rolls a nat. 20.  He
has a 17 strength.   He has previously cast shocking grasp on his
weapon.  On the damage die he rolls a 4, resulting in (4+1str+1mag)*2,
or 12 points of damage, plus spell damage.

Example 2:

The kobold's brother swings at Runeweaver, who has Bracers AC 0 and a 15
Dex(AC -1), and rolls a 20.  He is using a short sword and rolls a 5. 
Runeweaver takes 5 points of damage.(The kobold was not skilled enough
to get a critical hit).

Fumbles:

Generally, fumbles do not occur in my campaign.  The characters are
skilled, but more than that, they are luckier than average folks.  But,
if a character uses a poorly crafted weapon, it breaks on a nat. 1. 
Also, two consecutive nat. 1's usually mean something bad happens(hit a
friend, drop weapon, etc. based on what will enhance play).

Example 3:

Runeweaver is now facing a green dragon, and has exhausted his spells. 
He prepares his sling and rolls a natural 1.  Miss!  The dragon
continues attacking the other party members.  In the second round,
Runeweaver tries again, and rolls another 1.  The sling bullet now hits
the party cleric, disrupting his spell.

I use this system because it is relatively simple, and doesn't require
rolling on a table.
                            Jordan M. Wolbrum
                         at jw67@andrew.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: brunborg@solan.unit.no (]dne Brunborg)
Subject: Re: Lich & Demi-Lich...
Keywords: lich
Organization: Norwegian Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 11:40:50 GMT

In article <69570@hydra.gatech.EDU>, tmiller@prism.gatech.EDU (Thomas Miller) writes:
 > > In article <1992Sep30.134229.19463@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, abistak@nyx.cs.du.edu (Andrew Bistak) writes:
 > > > Our party consists of a Paladin(lev 9)/Bard(lev 10)/Fighter-Mage ( lev
 > > > 7 7) and a thief unfortunately.   [Here's] the problem, does anyone know
 > > > how to defeat a damn Lich?  Some stats/weaknesses would be nice.
 > > > regards, Andrew
 > > 
 > 
 > 
 >   With only four characters in the party, my advice would be to flee
 > and come back later with more help...
 > 
 > 
 > 

 - unless your paladin has a Holy Sword +6, Instant Undead Slayer or Lich Killer
or something like that. You must have a sword wich ignore stoneskin (he's sure to
have at least 10 attacks absorbed, at wich time you're dead) and always win
initiative. Don't use fireballs, he'll have Spell Turning for sure. 
And the paladin must fly and be Hasted, and be able to Detect Invisibility.
And finally, try to get Divine Intervention. Then you might survive.

Good luck!!

So long!

		Aadne Brunborg
		Norwegian Institute of Thechnology
		University of Trondheim
		NORWAY

	"If ye can't see it, it's right behind ye..."
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd