From: wlee@argo.acs.oakland.edu (Walter Lee)
Subject: Re: black herring on econ
Reply-To: wlee@argo.acs.oakland.edu
Organization: Oakland University, Rochester, MI
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 01:03:55 GMT

>In article <1992Sep26.183553.6567@vela.acs.oakland.edu> wlee@argo.acs.oakland.edu writes:
>>
>>by.  So why aren't we using everything in our technological bag of tricks in a
>>concerted battle against economic necessity?  To me this means attempting to
>>create (in market terms) a permanent glut of necessity goods like food and
>>housing.  Instead it is used to create a glut of labor, and of course most of
>>us react to this situation precisely the way the archons want us to.  Another
>

In article <1992Sep29.141025.16821@genie.slhs.udel.edu>, nancy@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Nancy Lebovitz) writes:

>I suspect that the present technological level is much too low for a really
>good society. There is just so much shitwork involved in maintaining a
>reasonably comfortable, interesting life that there's a strong incentive
>to create/maintain systems for sloughing that work off onto other people.
>

It probably is too low.  My point is that the technology we already have
could be used to create more leisure than it has.  This is partly because
of political pressure from workers who are reacting to the fact that, in
a market economy, a devaluation of labor is essentially a devaluation
of human beings.  Technology is not used to break the yoke of economic
necessity because economic necessity is one of the levers (as in leverage)
we can be pulled by by both governments and businesses.  Also, producers
of economic necessities (farmers, say) are (justifiably) scared s---less
of, say, a food surplus.

>
>In re cars: I think that it would take two changes to make the
>transportation system much more useful. One is to take away the government
>monopoly on mass transit and permit jitneys. (Jitneys are privately owned
>buses--I gather they're common in the Carribean.) 
>

I would say the same thing, but I must admit I would say it in a way that
less strongly hints at the idea of privatization as panacea.  Certainly
couldn't be any worse than the systems (note plural) in Detroit and its
suburbs.  The Detroit system will take you downtown.  The suburban system
will take you to the malls.  There are vast areas full of office buildings
and industrial parks (workplaces) that are VIRTUALLY UNSERVED.
How do other metro areas compare, net?

>The other is a social change of regarding drivers and hitch-hikers who
>attack each other as guilty of an especially disgusting betrayal instead
>of blaming the victim for being fool enough to trust a stranger.
>

Right on!

>
>I think your project is a very good idea, though my temperment seems to be
>more verbal than technological. (Sometimes there's a little voice in the
>back of my head saying, "What are you doing to help with the Singularity?",
>though. (The Singularity is Vernor Vinge's term for a great technological
>change that will make the future incomprehensible to us-as-we-are-now. One
>of the distinguishing features is intelligence increase.) 

Is this sci-fi?  Any relation to Joan Vinge?  Pleaze cite titles.
My original post was inspired mostly by  "Towards a liberatory technology"
by Murray Bookchin and (I'll admit it) the H.E.A.D. revolution as described
in Bob Wilson's "Schrodinger's Cat" trilogy.

>                              Nancy Lebovitz
>                              calligraphic button catalogue available 
>                                 by email  (170K)
>                              nancy@genie.slhs.udel.edu
>
>Onomatopia--a social/political system that just sounds good
>
>
Walter Lee    wlee@argo.acs.oakland.edu, lee@plex-1.ann-arbor.mi.us

Keep the Aspidistra Flying!