HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: alsaggaf@athena.mit.edu (M. Saggaf)
Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.vm.bug
Subject: vm does not recognize my mail packets. Help!
Date: 15 Aug 92 02:50:30 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology


 I'm a newbie to vm, and so far I like it very much, especially its
ability to extract messages from digests (I converted from elm).
However, I have one problem: sometimes vm does not recognaize my mail
packets. It knows the location of the file and everything but
sometimes it incorporates the mail and other times it tells me that no
mail has arraived, although mail did arrave.

 I think that depending on the first message of the packet, sometimes
vm does not recognize that the file is a valid mail file; for example,
editing the mail packet and removing the first message somtimes solves
the problem. 

 I inspected vm.el and there is a function called
vm-compatible-folder-p, but I couldn't make any sense of it (I don't
know elisp well enough).

 So the question is: what is it that vm is looking for in the mail
packet to recognize it? I can then write a small shell script that would add
that to the packet so that vm would identify it.

 BTW, I'm using vm 5.31 (beta), and  elm had no problem with any of my
packets whatsoever. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 /M. Saggaf
Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.vm.bug
From: kpc@pluto.arc.nasa.gov (k p c)
Subject: bug with fcc file
Reply-To: kpc@ptolemy.arc.nasa.gov
Organization: NASA Ames Research Center AI Research Branch (Sterling).
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 21:04:57 GMT

when i visit my fcc file, where i keep old incoming and outgoing
messages, vm-visit-when-saving does not work properly.  sending a
message with fcc updates the disk file no matter what.  it would be
great if vm-visit-when-saving were honored for this file and this
header.

5.32, 18.58.
vm-visit-when-saving's value is 0

--
i'm open to comparing career notes with other ai and cogsci people.
Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.vm.bug
From: kpc@pluto.arc.nasa.gov (k p c)
Subject: c-c y bugs
Reply-To: kpc@ptolemy.arc.nasa.gov
Organization: NASA Ames Research Center AI Research Branch (Sterling).
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 07:55:05 GMT

c-c y is a good feature.

two things:

it isn't always at the message you want to yank.  i wonder if there is
a way to do it more efficiently than to do c-x o c-v c-n c-n c-n c-n
... c-x o (number) ret.

windows return to a weird state.  i think they should return to the
message being composed.
--
i'm open to comparing career notes with other ai and cogsci people.
Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.vm.info
From: peterc@suite.sw.oz.au (Peter Chubb)
Subject: VM and POP
Organization: Softway Pty Ltd
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 92 23:38:27 GMT


Has anyone patched VM to communicate with a POP_3 server?  I want to
be able to read mail where the mail spool file is not directly
accessible from emacs.

The movemail program understands POP to a limited extent -- its main
problem at present is that it doesn't send a password -- but vm
expects to be able to get at the spool file directly (in
vm-compatible-folder-p)



			Regards,

				- Peter Chubb

Softway Pty Ltd, P.O. Box 305, Strawberry Hills, NSW 2012, AUSTRALIA
Phone: +61 2 698 2322;       Fax: +61 2 699 9174;     Telex: AA27987
Internet: peterc@softway.oz.au	   UUCP: ...!uunet!softway.oz!peterc
Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.vm.info
From: msanghvi@cs.ulowell.edu (Mehul Sanghvi)
Subject: Carbon Copies
Reply-To: msanghvi@cs.ulowell.edu
Organization: UMass-Lowell Comp. Sci. Dept.
Distribution: gnu
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 22:39:40 GMT


hello!

  does anyone out there know how to get VM to prompt for carbon copies?? when
i mail something the To: and Subject: fields always appear, but i dont get the
Cc: prompt or the Bcc: prompt. i tried going through the documentation but was
unable to come across any variable or the likes that i could set. Does this
mean that i have to write my own function to do this?? 

all help appreciated.

thanks

peace

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mehul "raja lakhan" Sanghvi    | UMass-Lowell, Comp. Sci. Dept.
Inet: msanghvi@cs.ulowell.edu  | US Mail:  754 Aiken St. #11
UUCP: harvard!ulowell!msanghvi |           Lowell, MA. 01850-1804
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A formal parsing algorithm should not always be used.
		-- D. Gries

A lack of leadership is no substitute for inaction.
A language that doesn't affect the way you think about programming is
not worth knowing.
From: meb4593@galileo.rtn.ca.boeing.com (Michael Bain)
Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.vm.info
Subject: Help needed to automatically extract messages to folders
Date: 13 Aug 92 18:00:22 GMT
Organization: Boeing Commercial Airplane Group, Seattle


I'm having difficulty in making the conversion to VM, mainly in the
area of having my messages from different mailing lists automatically
saved into folders.  Previously. I used mush to parse out the messages
into the appropriate folders.  From what I gather through the info
files, I need to set a variable (vm-auto-xxx-alist) that will parse the
headers and set a default mail folder for saving.  If I'm on the right
track, I think I need an example .vm file since I'm not very Lisp
literate and can't seem to get this variable to work.

Thanks.


-- 
Michael Bain                                            (206) 234-6942
Boeing Commercial Airplane Group           meb4593@icdfs.ca.boeing.com
Seattle, WA 98124
Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.vm.info
Subject: Re: Mailing list
From: goodhear@husc9.Harvard.EDU (Eric Goodheart)
Date: 21 Aug 92 19:10:52 EDT
Distribution: world
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

In article <9208211423.AA01909@wendy-fate.UU.NET>, kyle@wendy-fate.uu.net (Kyle Jones) writes:
|> Eric Goodheart writes:
|>  > This may be a FAQ.
|>  > 
|>  > How do I get vm to reply to the sender of a letter from a mailing list, rather
|>  > than to the mailing list itself?
|> 
|> `r' or `R' shoudl be doing this, unless the mailing list is one
|> of those that inserts "Reply-to: list", in which case you'll be
|> manually replace the list address with that of the sender.

Yes, that is my problem.  But I would like to avoid having to change the address
manually since it means switching to the INBOX buffer to get the sender's 
address and then make the change.  There must be a better way.

Eric
Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.vm.info
From: msanghvi@sol.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Mehul Sanghvi)
Subject: Re: Help needed to automatically extract messages to folders
Organization: somewhere on earth
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 02:43:09 GMT


  I'm having difficulty in making the conversion to VM, mainly in the
  area of having my messages from different mailing lists automatically
  saved into folders.  Previously. I used mush to parse out the messages
  into the appropriate folders.  From what I gather through the info
  files, I need to set a variable (vm-auto-xxx-alist) that will parse the
  headers and set a default mail folder for saving.  If I'm on the right
  track, I think I need an example .vm file since I'm not very Lisp
  literate and can't seem to get this variable to work.

Could someone email to me also the example .vm file as i would like to use
this feature of it as well

thanks.

peace

-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mehul "raja lakhan" Sanghvi            |  UMass-Lowell, Comp. Sci. Dept.
UUCP: ...!harvard!ulowell!msanghvi     |  SnailNET: 754 Aiken St. #11, 
INTERNET: msanghvi@cs.ulowell.edu      |            Lowell, MA. 01850-1804
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A non-vegetarian anti-abortionist is a contradiction in terms.
		--Phyllis Schlafly
From: ryanr@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Richard Ryan)
Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.vm.info
Subject: Re: reading without changing mailbox
Date: 19 Aug 92 08:16:12 GMT
	<9208171435.AA08461@wendy-fate.UU.NET>
Organization: College of Natural Sciences, Colorado State University

>>>>> On 17 Aug 92 14:35:37 GMT, kyle@wendy-fate.uu.net (Kyle Jones) said:

 > Is there a way to get vm to read mail without changing the
 > incoming mail box?

Kyle> In VM 5.32 you should be able to use C-x C-q in the folder buffer.

Hi,

I know this is probably going to be like the time I didn't realize
you were supposed to press the space bar to read mail in VM, but
heck, when I tried C-x C-q while running VM, nothing seemed to happen
and when I had to do the normal "q" to quit, VM seemed to make all
the changes it normally makes.  What am I doing wrong?  Also, when
I tried "C-x q" I got a message about "Not defining or executing kbd."
Does that mean anything other than I shouldn't type "C-x q"   ?

Thanks,
Richard.
--
--
ryanr@lamar.ColoState.EDU
From: kyle@wendy-fate.uu.net (Kyle Jones)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 10:35:37 -0400
Subject: reading without changing mailbox
Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.vm.info
richard ryan writes:
 > Is there a way to get vm to read mail without changing the
 > incoming mail box?

In VM 5.32 you should be able to use C-x C-q in the folder buffer.

 > Also, does vm have to write to a temporary file to read?

VM uses a temp file only in the special case of the primary inbox.
VM uses the crash box as a transfer point between the spool files
and the primary inbox.

 > Does it have to write anything to be able to read?

No.
Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.vm.info
From: sti@cs.hut.fi (Sami-Jaakko Tikka)
Subject: Re: turning off backup for mail files
X-Md4-Signature: 47ac4be23c4525e19e2380a90b79eeca
Reply-To: Sami.Tikka@hut.fi
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
	<9208112126.AA01204@wendy-fate.UU.NET>
	<RYANR.92Aug17031308@lamar.ColoState.EDU>
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 18:24:47 GMT


I get along by putting the line 

(setq vm-mode-hooks (cons 'no-backups vm-mode-hooks))

in ~/.vm instead of ~/.emacs.  When .vm is loaded, vm-mode-hooks is
already defined.

--
Sami.Tikka@hut.fi                                  "Live Long and Prosper!"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I think there's a world market for about 5 computers."
        - Thomas J. Watson, Chairman of the Board, IBM (around 1948)
From: ryanr@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Richard Ryan)
Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.vm.info
Subject: Re: turning off backup for mail files
Date: 17 Aug 92 08:13:08 GMT
	<9208112126.AA01204@wendy-fate.UU.NET>
Organization: College of Natural Sciences, Colorado State University

>>>>> On 11 Aug 92 21:26:20 GMT, kyle@wendy-fate.uu.net (Kyle Jones) said:

Hi,

I've tried the following and I get an "error in init file" message.
The machine here runs emacs 18.57.3 and I'm using vm 5.32

Kyle> (defun no-backups ()
Kyle>   (make-local-variable 'make-backup-files)
Kyle>   (setq make-backup-files nil))

Kyle> (setq vm-mode-hooks (cons 'no-backups vm-mode-hooks))

Could someone tell me how to get this working?

Thanks,
Richard.
--
--
ryanr@lamar.ColoState.EDU
From: ryanr@beethoven.CS.ColoState.EDU (richard ryan)
Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.vm.info
Subject: reading without changing mailbox
Date: 17 Aug 92 07:44:35 GMT
Distribution: gnu
Organization: Computer Science Department, Colorado State University

Hi,

Is there a way to get vm to read mail without changing the
incoming mail box?  Also, does vm have to write to a temporary
file to read?  Does it have to write anything to be able to read?
And of course, my last question is, are there any FAQ's for
vm somewhere?

Thanks,
Richard.
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 19:09:00 EST
From: rcardena@pr.oracle.com (Ricardo Cardenas)
Subject: making my vm-auto-folder-alist look neater!
Errors-To: info-vm-request@uunet.uu.net
Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.vm.info
x-gateway: Wed from info-vm to gnu.emacs.vm.info; Wed, 19 Aug 1992 19:53:25 EDT

Here's an example of how I set my vm-auto-folder-list in my ~/.vm file:

    (setq vm-auto-folder-alist
      '(
        ("To"
         ("boriken@\\|peru@\\|sganet-s@" . "culture")
         ("inet-\\(mgrs\\|users\\)" . "networking"))
        ("Cc"
         ("boriken@\\|peru@\\|sganet-s@" . "culture")
         ("inet-\\(mgrs\\|users\\)" . "networking"))))

It all works great, but I'd like the LISP code to look neater.  I
realize this ain't really a VM question.

1) First trouble is, I hate the double-backslashes I need to type so
that I can quote the regexp special characters ( | ).  Not knowing LISP
syntax too well, can anyone tell me if there is a way for me to assign a
value to vm-auto-folder-alist without using all those annoying
backslashes?

2) Also, what if I wish to reuse certain constructs so I don't have to
type and maintain them in two different places (the real version of my
vm-auto-folder-alist is a lot longer than this).  So that I can use
something like this (pseudo-code):

        (setq x '("boriken@\\|peru@\\|sganet-s@" . "culture"))
        (setq vm-auto-folder-alist '( ("To" x) ("Cc" x)))



Please write if you have any lisp clues.  And be kind if this is an RTFM
question.  I have read SFM.  Thanks. -Ricardo (rcardena@pr.oracle.com)
From: goodhear@husc9.Harvard.EDU (Eric Goodheart)
Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.vm.info
Subject: Mailing list
Date: 21 Aug 92 02:45:53 GMT
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

This may be a FAQ.

How do I get vm to reply to the sender of a letter from a mailing list, rather
than to the mailing list itself?

Eric
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 13:46:28 MDT
From: jerry@math.ep.utexas.edu (Jerry)
Organization: Department of Mathematical Sciences, University of Texas at El Paso
Subject: Re: reading without changing mailbox
	<RYANR.92Aug17024435@beethoven.CS.ColoState.EDU>
	<RYANR.92Aug19031612@lamar.ColoState.EDU>
Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.vm.info
x-gateway: Wed from info-vm to gnu.emacs.vm.info; Wed, 19 Aug 1992 15:52:55 EDT

Richard Ryan on August 19 wrote:
>>>>>> On 17 Aug 92 14:35:37 GMT, kyle@wendy-fate.uu.net (Kyle Jones) said:
-> 
> > Is there a way to get vm to read mail without changing the
> > incoming mail box?
-> 
-> Kyle> In VM 5.32 you should be able to use C-x C-q in the folder buffer.

You will also want

    (setq vm-preview-lines 15)

or some other non-nil value.  Otherwise the folder will be modified
via vm-thoughtfully-select-message going to the first unread message
and, ahem, marking it as having been read.  Jamie lost an autosave
file this way.

-Jerry
x-gateway: rodan.UU.NET from info-vm to gnu.emacs.vm.info; Fri, 21 Aug 1992 10:23:41 EDT
From: kyle@wendy-fate.uu.net (Kyle Jones)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 10:23:21 -0400
Subject: Mailing list
Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.vm.info
Eric Goodheart writes:
 > This may be a FAQ.
 > 
 > How do I get vm to reply to the sender of a letter from a mailing list, rather
 > than to the mailing list itself?

`r' or `R' shoudl be doing this, unless the mailing list is one
of those that inserts "Reply-to: list", in which case you'll be
manually replace the list address with that of the sender.
From: kyle@wendy-fate.uu.net (Kyle Jones)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 16:32:09 -0400
Subject: Re: reading without changing mailbox
	<9208191946.AA17488@banach.math.ep.utexas.edu>
	<RYANR.92Aug17024435@beethoven.CS.ColoState.EDU>
	<RYANR.92Aug19031612@lamar.ColoState.EDU>
Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.vm.info
x-gateway: Wed from info-vm to gnu.emacs.vm.info; Wed, 19 Aug 1992 16:32:27 EDT

Jerry writes:
 > Richard Ryan on August 19 wrote:
 > >>>>>> On 17 Aug 92 14:35:37 GMT, kyle@wendy-fate.uu.net (Kyle Jones) said:
 > -> 
 > > > Is there a way to get vm to read mail without changing the
 > > > incoming mail box?
 > -> 
 > -> Kyle> In VM 5.32 you should be able to use C-x C-q in the folder buffer.
 > 
 > You will also want
 > 
 >     (setq vm-preview-lines 15)
 > 
 > or some other non-nil value.  Otherwise the folder will be modified
 > via vm-thoughtfully-select-message going to the first unread message
 > and, ahem, marking it as having been read.  Jamie lost an autosave
 > file this way.

Better to just use a prefix arg to vm or vm-visit-folder, which
will maake the folder read-only before it's too late.
Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.vm.info
From: rwhitby@research.canon.oz.au (Rod Whitby)
Subject: VM setting default-directory kills (require 'file) in vm-mode-hooks
Originator: rwhitby@bing
Organization: Canon Information Systems Research, Australia
Distribution: gnu
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 08:29:17 GMT

For a while now, I have been getting intermittent errors of the form:

"(error (void-variable From))"

when loading vm.  I just found out what it was, and I thought I'd
share the solution so others don't pull out as much hair as I did.

If you have:

1/ a function on your vm-mode-hooks that tries to load another 
   file (i.e. `(require 'bbdb)')

2/ a mail folder of the same name as the file (i.e. ~/Mail/bbdb)

3/ a `nil' entry in your load-path (which means use the current directory)

then it turns out that when the vm-mode-hooks are run, the
default-directory is set to the vm-folder-directory, and therefore
emacs will try to load and evaluate your mail folder.

The solution, of course, is to remove the nil entry from your
load-path.

Not the easiest of problems to track down ...

-- 
Rod Whitby (rwhitby@research.canon.oz.au)     _--_|\ 
                                             /      \
Canon Information Systems Research Australia \_.--._/
1 Thomas Holt Drive, North Ryde, N.S.W., 2113.     v 
Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.vm.info
From: drew@drew.b17a.ingr.com (Drew Mills)
Subject: VM startup problems
Reply-To: drew@drew.b17a.ingr.com
Organization: Cartographic Applications, Intergraph
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 19:49:45 GMT

I've got VM 5.32 and I can't seem to get it to start properly.  The README
file says something about loading vm.elc  but I didn't get a vm.el in my
tar distribution.  If I load every single lisp file, I can get it to run
(since I'm not sure which ones need running) but I can't load bytecompile
files, only .el files.  When I try to load the .elc files I get an error
message about 'Invalid Function: (macro lambda nil.....'.

If I got a bogus distribution (vm.el really isn't in there!) could someone
point me to an anonftp site that has a good distribution?

Thanks
  ________________________________________________________________________
 /                                    |                                   \
|   Drew Mills                        | Mail Stop: IW17A6                  |
|   Cartographic Applications         | E-Mail:    drew@drew.b17a.ingr.com |
|   Intergraph Corporation            | Telephone: (205) 730-1809          |
|   Huntsville, Alabama  35894-0001   | FAX:       (205) 730-7296          |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|                   ...Consider yourself a disclaimee                      |
 \________________________________________________________________________/

Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.vm.info
From: lux@sol.UVic.CA (Michael O'Henly)
Subject: Installing VM
Keywords: Installing VM
Organization: University of Victoria
Date: 15 Aug 92 21:00:55 GMT

	I'm an emacs neophyte (obviously!) and I'm having trouble
installing VM (vm 5.32 beta).

	So far, I've untarred the distribution files into a directory
pointed to the load-path variable, and byte-compiled to produce a
vm.elc file. Now I'm stuck. What's next?

	Do I have to add each of VM's functions individually to my
.emacs file so that they are autoloaded?

	I know this is really elementary stuff but I would be most
grateful for some help...

	Thanks.

	Michael.
--
Michael O'Henly                 
McPherson Library                Internet:  lux@sol.uvic.ca
University of Victoria                      lux@uvvm.uvic.ca
Victoria, B.C., Canada             BITNET:  lux@uvvm



From: kyle@wendy-fate.uu.net (Kyle Jones)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 10:16:16 -0400
Subject: Re: turning off backup for mail files
	<CIAMAC.92Aug11152343@victoria.media.mit.edu>
	<RYANR.92Aug17031308@lamar.ColoState.EDU>
Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.vm.info
Richard Ryan writes:
 > >>>>> On 11 Aug 92 21:26:20 GMT, kyle@wendy-fate.uu.net (Kyle Jones) said:
 > 
 > Hi,
 > 
 > I've tried the following and I get an "error in init file" message.
 > The machine here runs emacs 18.57.3 and I'm using vm 5.32
 > 
 > Kyle> (defun no-backups ()
 > Kyle>   (make-local-variable 'make-backup-files)
 > Kyle>   (setq make-backup-files nil))
 > 
 > Kyle> (setq vm-mode-hooks (cons 'no-backups vm-mode-hooks))
 > 
 > Could someone tell me how to get this working?

Sorry, I forgot the usual

(defvar vm-mode-hooks nil)

that's required before any of the other code.
From: alsaggaf@athena.mit.edu (M. Saggaf)
Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.vm.info
Subject: vm does not recognize my mail packets. Help!
Date: 14 Aug 92 02:21:24 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology


 I'm a newbie to vm, and so far I like it very much, especially its
ability to extract messages from digests (I converted from elm).
However, I have one problem: sometimes vm does not recognaize my mail
packets. It knows the location of the file and everything but
sometimes it incorporates the mail and other times it tells me that no
mail has arraived, although mail did arrave.

 I think that depending on the first message of the packet, sometimes
vm does not recognize that the file is a valid mail file; for example,
editing the mail packet and removing the first message somtimes solves
the problem. 

 I inspected vm.el and there is a function called
vm-compatible-folder-p, but I couldn't make any sense of it (I don't
know elisp well enough).

 So the question is: what is it that vm is looking for in the mail
packet to recognize it? I can then write a small shell script that would add
that to the packet so that vm would identify it.

 BTW, I'm using vm 5.31 (beta), and  elm had no problem with any of my
packets whatsoever. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 /M. Saggaf
From: kyle@wendy-fate.uu.net (Kyle Jones)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 10:16:38 -0400
Subject: Re: reading without changing mailbox
	<RYANR.92Aug17024435@beethoven.CS.ColoState.EDU>
	<RYANR.92Aug19031612@lamar.ColoState.EDU>
Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.vm.info
Kyle> In VM 5.32 you should be able to use C-x C-q in the folder buffer.

Richard Ryan writes:
 > I know this is probably going to be like the time I didn't realize
 > you were supposed to press the space bar to read mail in VM, but
 > heck, when I tried C-x C-q while running VM, nothing seemed to happen
 > and when I had to do the normal "q" to quit, VM seemed to make all
 > the changes it normally makes.

It could be a couple of things.  If you did C-x C-q in the
summary buffer instead of the folder buffer, then the folder
won't be made read only.  This is something that should be fixed.

Also, if you made changes before you made the folder read only,
VM will still save changes when you quit, just as Emacs will save
modified buffers if they are read only.
From: kyle@wendy-fate.uu.net (Kyle Jones)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 19:26:41 -0400
Subject: Carbon Copies
Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.vm.info
Mehul Sanghvi writes:
 >   does anyone out there know how to get VM to prompt for carbon copies?? when
 > i mail something the To: and Subject: fields always appear, but i dont get the
 > Cc: prompt or the Bcc: prompt. i tried going through the documentation but was
 > unable to come across any variable or the likes that i could set. Does this
 > mean that i have to write my own function to do this?? 

I've been thinking about having VM honor most of the Berkeley
Mail .mailrc variables if it seems reasonable.  I'll keep the
askcc thing in mind at least.