HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: trw@spl1.spl.loral.com (Tim R Witort)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: 7777777 Seventy Sevens 77777777
Date: 13 Aug 92 21:02:12 GMT
Organization: Loral Software Productivity Laboratory

I just listened to "All Fall Down" by the 77's again
today and am wondering if anyone knows what in the world
is being said at the end of "Ba ba ba ba" as they fade out.
It sounds something like this:

   Dish bawkfa, dish bawkfa goot geh.

And is repeated over and over as the song fades out.
Is this anything meaningful? Is it gobbledegook? Some
foreign language? Tongues? Backmasking? WHAT!!!

thanks to anyone brave enough to interpret....

-- Tim
From: alisonjw@spider.co.uk (Alison J Wyld)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: TANGENT: I would like some terms explained.
Date: 18 Aug 92 17:09:57 GMT
Organization: Spider Systems Limited, Edinburgh, UK.

In article <1992Aug18.153753.7289@cas.org> lvirden@cas.org (Larry W. Virden) writes:
>:
>:
>:Evangelical:
>:
>:-- I know that the verb "to evangelize" has a similar meaning to the verb
>:"to preach."
>:
>
>This is a label tagged to those churchs which put a primary emphasis on
>the scriptures of Christ telling his discipes to go into all the world
>and make disciples.  The churchs train their members to go into the
>communities of the world and knock on doors, present television and radio
>broadcasts, print literature, etc. and present the challenges of the gospel
>to people and inviting them to come to Christ.  Some do so in a more militant
>manner than others.
>
>Again, I do not know what a church emphasising something other than the
>sharing of the gospel would be labeled.
>

Either this is a difference in UK/US usage or you're not quite right
here.

What you describe above is "evangelism" not "evangelicalism".
Evangelicals (mostly) are distinguished by their relience on scripture
(rather than tradition, for example).  They are often quite
intellectually oriented, and there's a lot of emphasis on Bible study
and prayer.  

Alison W.
From: crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Lauren L. Crawford)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: Recommendation for video...
Date: 20 Aug 92 20:21:07 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <1992Aug20.193653.7091@cs.cornell.edu> lmc@cs.cornell.edu (Linda Marie Competillo) writes:
>
>No, he's right. I remember a movie entitled "Exodus" with a theme song by
>the same title, but I don't remember who played in it or anything about it.
>

I believe there was a film based on Leon Uris's novel, _Exodus_, and
the theme song was popular in the '60s.  You can still find it in lots
of beginner piano "pop" music books.  The novel, if I recall, dealt
primarily with the reemergence of the state of Israel in the '40s,
battles between the Palestinians and returning Jews, etc.  It's
primarily a modern tale.


-- 
Lauren Crawford  //  crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu

Verbosity leads to unclear, inarticulate things.
            -- J. Danforth Quayle
From: salaris@niblick.ecn.purdue.edu (Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrabbits)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: Is music amoral??
Date: 19 Aug 92 18:39:20 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

In article <1992Aug18.194409.9953@meaddata.com>, johnt@meaddata.com (John Townsend) writes:
> 
> For anyone interested in the subject of Satanism in secular music, I'd strongly
> recommend the video "Hell's Bells" as a must-see.  It's been a long time since
> I've seen it, but it makes a very strong, practical case for the influence of
> spiritual forces on and through music, even if you don't agree with all of it.
> In answer to your question, I would just point out that backwards incantations
> are a fundamental part of Satanic worship, and are described in the _Satanic
> Bible_.  Something about them being an attempt to "undo" the acts of God, I
> think.
> 
I saw "Hell's Bells" about a year ago and found it to be a typical load
of BS.  Half of the facts they presented were totally off base.  For
example, the perpetual citing of Ozzy Osbourne's "Suicide Solution" as
a pro-suicide song.  It is about his alcoholism and how he was killing
himself with the disease.  All you have to do is read ALL of the song's
lyrics to figure that one out.  Backwards incantations as a part of Satanic
worship are a joke also.  The "Satanic Bible" by Anton LeVay is not to be
taken seriously.  This guy is a joke.  I have read the Satanic bible (or
rather most of it) and I laughed.  I can't see how anyone could take it
seriously.  Oh well, some people whether Christian or not, believe
everything they read and don't think for themselves.

Personally, I have never taken all the Satanism in rock seriously.  As an
Eastern Orthodox Christian, I was taught that evil is simply the lack
of good and not the exact opposite of good.  I was also taught that
Satan is not truly that powerful or significant of a figure as most
fundamentalists and related groups are taught.  Even the 666 stuff out
of Revelation has been taken way way way out of context.


--
Steven C. Salaris                We're...a lot more dangerous than 2 Live Crew
salaris@carcs1.wustl.edu         and their stupid use of foul language because
				 we have ideas.  We have a philosophy.
					      Geoff Tate -- Queensryche
From: noel@crs.cl.msu.edu (Noel Estabrook)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: Need a Scripture reference
Date: 14 Aug 92 11:12:04 GMT
Reply-To: noel@crs.cl.msu.edu.UUCP (Noel Estabrook)
Organization: Michigan State University

>>>In article <1992Aug13.133829.3829@cs.cornell.edu>, lmc@cs.cornell.edu (Linda Marie Competillo) writes:
>I'd sure appreciate a follow-up on it, Noel. This claim came from a real
>down-home Pentecostal southern Evangelist who's conducting Tent Revival for
>all 8 of our area AOG churches this week. I'd be mighty surprised if his 
>reference would be from the Apocrypha! Aside from that, what a glorious time
>we're having!! 70's signs and wonders all over the place!!! Can't hardly 
>wait to get back there again tonight! We have a spiritualist camp 2 miles
>down the road and they are *not* happy campers this week!!

Glad to hear it.  Make em squirm!  Hey, I'll do the best I can on 
researching that for you.  It will probably take a few days, so be
patient...
>
>  Linda
>
>


--
Noel Estabrook          |       Let us not merely do that which is our
noel@crs.cl.msu.edu   __|__	RIGHT, rather, let us desire to do that
Educational Technology  |	which IS right - Me
Michigan State Univ.    |				Romans 12:2
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: yag@eng.umd.edu (Eric Funk)
Subject: ISO Blackhouse discography
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 20:14:47 GMT
Organization: College of Engineering, University of Maryland, College Park
Originator: yag@ee22.eng.umd.edu


I have an incredible LP from ``Blackhouse'' entitled ``Holy War'' which
was released back in circa 1987 on RRR records and produced by Michael Ladd
also of RRR fame.

I consider this THE definitive industrial music album of the late 80's.
My favorite track is ``Whispers of Love'' which consists of a pretty clear
gospel presentation with a mysterious backdrop of throbbing noises.

I was wondering if anyone could give me a complete discography of Blackhouse including
any newer releases.
-- 
EFEFEFEFEFEFEFEFEFEFEFEFEFEFEFEFEFEFEFEFEFEFEFEFEFEFEFEF
 		    \ | /
 [YAG]--------------  * -  yag@eng.umd.edu (N3BYP)  
 		    / | \
From: kroth@david.wheaton.edu (Ken Roth)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: Falwell, Ankerberg, Walter Martin...
Date: 18 Aug 92 15:56:11 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Wheaton College, IL

In article <1992Aug17.134525.10395@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> jlaplant@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John R Laplante) writes:
>  Walter Martin, on the other hand, is someone I hae a great deal of respect
>  for. He has since, as christians say, "gone to be with the Lord." He is
>  indeed associated with the Christian Research INstitute, as the founder
>  (I think). CRI -- so i've been told last night -- is a transdemoninational
>  (e.g. on their staff they have a premillineal dispensationalist as well
>   as a charismatic) group the is a research institute and resource source
>  for information on cults and cultic groups. I think Mr. Martin's most
>  famous book is _Kingdom of the Cults._ 

He is also dead...

(Just so you know)

>john r la plante                    calling from the Ohio State University


Ken
-- 
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
kroth@wheaton.uucp | uunet!tellab5!wheaton!kroth || They call me Gryfalia   
"We believe, we believe, 'cause we felt it burning in our hearts"--77's
"He is no fool who loses what he cannot keep, to gain what he cannot lose."
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: phil@eecs.nwu.edu (William LeFebvre)
Subject: Re: Is music amoral??
Organization: EECS Department, Northwestern University
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 20:43:02 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.170543.2441@rambo.atlanta.dg.com>, wpr@atlanta.dg.com (Bill Rawlins) writes:

|> An example I gave of "fleshly" is the urge you get to mash down the accelerator
|> in your car when the heavy metal music comes on.

Perhaps YOU have that urge, but I don't.  I usually have the urge to
change the music.  But that's because my *personal preference* tends
away from most music characterised as "heavy metal".

|>    Spiritual music fills you
|>    with the love of God, or peace, or praise.  The bottom line is that this
|>    discernment is something that each believer must do - It is a spiritual
|>    discernment that can't be defined with rules.  That is why there
|>    will always be discussions of what is appropriate music for Christians.
|>    - Because we can't define it.  We follow the leading of the Holy Spirit.

I must say this at this point.  After much study, prayer, and thought I 
have come to the conclusion that there are a large body of things and
activities which are not in and of themselves sinful, but will lead SOME
people to sin should they engage in them.  For these people, it is wrong
to engage in these activities, because they will be led into sin.  Someone
who relates hard rock music to the days of his indulgence in sex and drugs
should probably not listen to that STYLE of music, because of the worldly
memories and habits that it stirs up in them.  So for THAT PERSON, it is
wrong to listen to that type of music.  But for others it is not
necessarily so.

(Obviously there are still things that are right and things that are wrong,
and those are universal.  But there are also, I believe, things that are
neither.)

THIS is why we have the holy spirit and why we are directed to use the
spirit to discern right from wrong.  Because the answer the spirit gives
one of us might not be the same answer he gives someone else.  So for
you, Bill Rawlins, the spirit is directing you away from certain types
of music because it stirs up unhealty reactions in you.  But for ME,
Bill LeFebvre, the same music does not have the same effect.

We are individual beings, and we react differently to the same stimuli.
One of the amazing and beautiful things about Christianity is that it
IS personal in that regard.  It's not just a set of rights and wrongs,
but also a mechanism to help us stay in the right...a mechanism that
adapts to the individual in all of us.

I realize that some may not agree with my interpretation of the Christian
faith.  I hope that this somewhat liberal view does not hinder anyone in
their walk with God.

|>     (Romans 8:14, Galatians 5:16)

		Peace,
		Bill
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: hill@spot.Colorado.EDU (Michael Hill)
Subject: Re: CCM:  Ministry or Career? (was Re: Amy Grant's "Sexy" comment)
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 21:27:37 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.171338.4716@pictel.com> harling@pictel.com
(Dan Harling) writes:
>In article <1992Aug11.231158.26267@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> hill@spot.Colorado.EDU
(Michael Hill) writes:
>>In article <85541@netnews.upenn.edu> alailima@eniac.seas.upenn.edu
(The WILD Samoan) writes:
>>>This is very interesting. I just recently had a discussion with some friends
>>>of mine who generally do not listen to CCM because it just isn't good
>>>enough music...So I submit to you that if you want artistic Christian
>>>music, you should look to the "secular Christian" bands. If they can succeed
>>>in the secular world, that generally says a lot about their musical talent.
>>>If you want ministry, look to CCM.
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>
>>Wrong.  (Always IMHO.)  You couldn't ask for better artistic music than
>>King's X (who asked you, Steiner?  :^)  ), and you couldn't ask for a more
>>edifying, uplifting, and *encouraging* song than "Dream in my Life".  I
>>don't see any evidence of a schism between art and ministry here.  (Finger
>>me for the lyrics.)
>
>I was under the impression that King's X was generally considered a
>"secular Christian" band, not in the CCM field.  Reasons that I have
>heard for this include the fact that they are not on a "Christian"
>label, and that their lyrics are not "blatantly Christian" for some
>people's tastes.

I would debate that point about "blatantly Christian" lyrics, but that
is not my goal here; we can pursue it in email, if you like.  But my point
was disagreement with his statement that "If you want ministry, look to
CCM."  What I was saying was that I find plenty of ministry in a band
which doesn't fit the homogeneous pap mold of "CCM".

>If this is the case, King's X is a case in point, not a counterexample,
>as far as art is concerned.  As far as "ministry" is concerned
>(whatever that really means), you get it where you can find it;
>apparently more people find it within the CCM circle than among
>"secular Christian" bands.  However, I agree that the music of King's X
>is a good example of both art and ministry.

I guess.  ("ministry" sentence.)  But does that make it more valid, or
mean that the majority defines who has "ministry" and who doesn't?  I
think your agreement in the last sentence confirms the point I was trying
to make.

			--Michael

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Hill   <><  Isaiah 9:6 | "Don't you forget now that Somebody died for
hill@spot.Colorado.EDU         |  you/ I'm tellin' you the truth, man, I ain't
Ball Aerospace Systems Group & |  gonna lie to you/ Good guys, bad boys, we're
University of Colorado@Boulder |  all the same/ Saved by grace is the name of
$ mv net.flames /dev/null      |  the game."            --Allies, "Burden Down"
-------------------------My boss is a Jewish carpenter!------------------------
Did you ever notice that everybody in favor of abortion has already been born?!
From: jmrg9881@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Jon Reid)
Subject: Re: Music for use in Liturgies
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 19:59:22 GMT

>I have been a reading rec.music.christian for a few months, and
>I would like some information on music and artists that can be 
>incorporated into liturgies that are used outside of the normal
>Sunday worship services (for me the Catholic Mass).

There is a whole (relatively recent) genre of Christian music called
"praise & worship music", and there are a few labels that specialize in it.
Among them are Maranatha, Integrity's Hosanna, and Vineyard.

I go to a Vineyard Christian Fellowship (from which the Vineyard music
originates).  In our worship on Sunday mornings and in our small groups, we
primarily use the Vineyard stuff (of course), but also some Maranatha and
Integrity's Hosanna stuff as well.  You might look for "sampler" albums
from all three labels and see what you like.
-- 
Jon Reid    j-reid@uiuc.edu    GEnie: THE.REIDS
"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose."
From: alan@elroy.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Alan S. Mazer)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: People is not America (was Amy)
Date: 12 Aug 92 15:02:37 GMT
Organization: Image Analysis Systems Group, JPL

In article <1992Aug11.201323.21758@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> noel@crs.cl.msu.edu.UUCP (Noel Estabrook) writes:
>In article <Bsu1C8.64C@news.cso.uiuc.edu> jmrg9881@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Jon Reid) writes:
>>Just no pleasing some people!  (Remember, the "they" that Jesus referred to
>>were the Pharisees -- the fundies of their time -- and the Sadducees -- the
>>liberal theologians of their time.)
>
>Hmmm, don't think I agree with the characterization.  Are you saying that
>those who believe in the inerrancy of Scripture and living a Holy life 
>dedicated to the Lord are all hypocrites who would crucify him again if
>given the chance?

Excuse me for posting, but since the original and reply are public...

I don't think we can say that all the Pharisees are hypocrites any more than we
can say all fundies are hypocrites.  That is, the original analogy is pretty
good.  I once heard a (well known) pastor remark that the Pharisees had gotten
a bad rap.  They devoted their lives to God and while many were twisted there
were others like Nicodemus who were sincere in their faith.  We are very quick
to judge the Pharisees but in reality we're the same in many ways.
-- 
 
-- Alan                        # Mountain Dew and doughnuts...
   ..!ames!elroy!alan          # because breakfast is the most important meal
   alan@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov     # of the day.
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: trw@spl1.spl.loral.com (Tim R Witort)
Subject: Re: Upon this Rock?
Organization: Loral Software Productivity Laboratory
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 21:53:52 GMT

In article <1992Aug21.143344.16072@news.cs.indiana.edu>, azamora@hexagon.cs.indiana.edu (Tony Zamora) writes:
|> I've heard a couple of people talk about the song "Upon this Rock" by Steve  
|> Camp and the album "Upon this Rock" by Larry Norman.  I know about the version  
|> of "Upon this Rock" that Sandi Patti did.  Are these others different versions  
|> of the same song or are they completely different?  What are they like?
                                                                 
  Quite different and quite cool. (not that Sandi's isn't cool too) %\)

|> Tony

-- Tim
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: Is music amoral??
From: steiner@jupiter.cse.utoledo.edu (jason "Think!" steiner)
Date: 18 Aug 92 02:24:58 EST
Distribution: usa

drice@ponder.csci.unt.edu (Keith Rice) writes:
> aaron@binah.cc.brandeis.edu (Scott Aaron) writes:
> 
> >I was just reading in Romans 15 that NOTHING is unclean in itself. 
> >It's only how we take it as individuals.  To say that oscillations
> >of air molecules have associated moral/ethical concepts has always
> >been amusing to me.  The same goes for assigning ethical beliefs to
> >instituions.  I have heard many say that "Stairway to Heaven" is a
> >Satanic song.  I'm always moved by what I perceive as its Christian
> >message ("there are two roads you can go by and there's still time
> >to change the road you're on...").  The morality is in how YOU take
> >it.
> 
> "Stairway" is considered to be a classic example of a song with
> backward messages dealing with Satan.  Jimmy Page of Led Zeppelin is
> an avowed follower of Alistair (sp?) Crowley's writings.  I can't
> remember exactly what "Stairway" says backwards as I have lent mt
> tape of its message to a friend but it is most definitely satanic.

i've done some sampling & processing of supposed backmasking and
Stairway to Heaven has -no- deliberate backmasking. (Def Leppard,
One Bad Pig and Petra do, on the other hand.) the supposed backmasking
on Stairway apparently says "my sweet satan" if you listen closely
enough.

that particular phrase is just a phonetic inversion of the lyrics.
you can tell from the ramping. normal waveforms, including singing
and speech look like this:
 
   __|\__ rising rapidly, then fading away.

backmasking, or a natural voice flipped over, looks like this:

   __/|__ slowly rising, & then cutting off.

"my sweet satan" has the latter waveform, indicating that it's
just an inversion of the normal lyrics. filtering out everything
but the lyrics & then inverting confirms this. if you -really-
want to go on a backmask hunt, don't look for it in the sections
of the songs that have vocals. it interferes there. check the
instrumental parts, especially the ending loop that a lot of bands
use. if you're listening closely you can recognize the distinctive
waveform.

jason "ediug dleif a hsilbup athgou I ,eeG" steiner

--
`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`
`,` Do you happen to be of the mechanical persuasion? `,`
`,`      Don't be taken in / by weak imitations.      `,`
`,`    A robot and a man got the same limitations.    `,`
`,`                -- Rise Robots Rise                `,`
`,`,`,`,`,`,` steiner@jupiter.cse.utoledo.edu `,`,`,`,`,`
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: tford@convex.com (Tom Ford)
Subject: Re: Satan as Heaven's Worship Leader
Summary: more references
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 19:33:32 GMT
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

(Sorry, I missed the beginning of this discussion...)

Here are some points to ponder though:

Some were saying that the reference in Is 14 is talking about man.
Here is the KJV text:
      14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!
      how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
I did notice that the NIV text doesnt mention Lucifer in this verse.  Are
there any Hebrew scholars out there that can explain the translation.

Ez 28:13-18 is another reference that I believe refers to Lucifer and this
subject.....
(it is addressed to the king of Tyrus, but I think it refers to Lucifer
since I dont think that king was previously in the garden of Eden or
an anointed cherib :-) 

Ez 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone
was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the
onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle,
and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared
in thee in the day that thou wast created.
....
28:17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast
corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to
the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
28:18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine
iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring
forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will
bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that
behold thee.

Comments?

Tom Ford
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian