From: ems@michael.apple.com (E. Michael Smith)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Hardening the Target (was Re: Killing burglars.)
Date: 31 Aug 92 21:07:21 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc, Cupertino, CA

In article <1992Aug28.181532.1803@sdc.com> kenk@sdc.com (Ken Konecki) writes:
>In article <1992Aug28.033901.3515@michael.apple.com> ems@michael.apple.com (E. Michael Smith) writes:
>>In article <8822@ncratl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM> mwilson@ncratl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM (Mark Wilson) writes:
>>>In <1992Aug24.145037.1946@sdc.com> kenk@sdc.com (Ken Konecki) writes:
>>>
>>>>Why are guns necessary?  A can of aerosol EZ-OFF used properly can be just
>>>>as effective as a gun for the purposes of defense.  One quick shot in the
>>>>face and it's over before it begins. 
>>
>>>What happens if you miss.  You have one very PO'ed burglar and there
>>>you are just a couple of feet away.  
>>
>>What happens if he is wearing glasses?  Or just gets a hand up 
>>enough to block the spray from getting his eyes?  You get nuked.
>
>What happens is the burglar isn't carrying a thermonuclear device?

'nuked' is often used to mean 'killed' and is not always used
literally.  If it was only used litterally, then my microwave oven
would have taken out much of the office several times today ...
since the folks here often 'nuke' their lunch in the microwave... ;-)

>What happens if you can't hit the burglar with your firearm?  What happens

I presume you mean can't hit the burglar with a SHOT from your firearm.
If so, you have a major problem.  This is but one of the reasons why
I advocate training with any firearm one choses to use.  This is also
part of why I put use of a firearm way down on the list, after hardening
the target and running away.  It is a recognized hazard of gun fights.

On the off chance you really meant 'hit the burglar with your firearm'...
You have a decent chance of using it as a bo-ken, if you know how to 
fight with a 'stick'.  It is a decent weapon (assuming a long gun)
as a club or spear, which is why the military affixes bayonettes.
If you are intent on hitting the burglar with your firearm, I'd 
strongly suggest martial arts training with emphasis on bo-ken !! ;-)

>when a few humor impaired, self righteous gun mongers get access to the net?

Um, excuse me, but I must have missed the smiley face on the original
posting about EZ-OFF.  I am hardly humor impared (since the most common
criticism I get at work is joking too much...) but I do not take
LETHAL FORCE lightly, especially when the apparent wrong advice given 
could get someone killed.  Since you now assert that it was humor,
I withdraw the harshness of my criticism (though NOT the content).

Please post something stating that EZ-OFF used as a combat weapon
was just a joke, though, so that others who were mislead by the 
lack of a smiley face can also know it was just a joke.

Also, I'm neither self righteous nor a gun monger.  (You must have missed
the posting where I stated that my guns all live in a gun safe and
I depend on martial arts (Shotokan Karate) and a Bow for home defence.)
A 'gun monger' would, literally, be one who sells guns.  I don't have an
FFL, so cannot sell them.  It figuratively means someone who advocates
the use of guns rabidly.  I think if you look at my postings you will
see that I have regularly advocated TRAINING, RESTRAINT, DON'T FIRE
IF YOU ARE NOT SURE, and other non-gun use.  I have tried to convince
folks NOT to use a gun, but if they must, to use it wisely and with
good training.  Hardly a rabid advocate...  

I've advocated 'hardening the target' as far more important than weapons.

I've advocated escape before violence.

None of this seems to be what a gun monger would do.

Perhaps you are just smarting a bit from having posted something
a bit stupid and gotten called on it...

Some folks here have asked for information about the use of firearms
in home defense.  Some bogus information was posted.  I feel it is
my duty to do what I can to show the bogus info is, in fact, bogus,
and could get someone killed.  It is also my duty to try to convince
people to learn something about combat before they lightly advocate
it as a way to solve a home intruder problem...
The Karate-do would let me do no less...

If you think this is humorless, perhaps it is because the topic is
a very serious one and not something to joke lightly about.

>>A can of EZ-OFF just MAY stop SOME bad guys, but don't depend on it
>>for your life. 
>
>By the same token, don't depend on any firearms for your life either.

At last, a VERY TRUE STATEMENT.

As I said in an earlier posting:  By the time you need to resort to 
a firearm, you have already done the wrong thing.  The time to win
the fight comes long before, by avoiding it.  Killing someone only
changes the way you loose ... (though I'd rather loose it this way
than by being killed myself, it is better to win by avoidance.)

"When to tigres fight, one of them is killed, the other is seriously
wounded" ...

First 'Harden the target'!

Way down the list, (after running away!), is use of lethal force.


-- 

E. Michael Smith  ems@apple.COM

'Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it.  Boldness has
 genius, power and magic in it.'  -  Goethe

I am not responsible nor is anyone else.  Everything is disclaimed.