HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: lps@cs.Buffalo.EDU (Lawrence P. Schnitzer)
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.driving
Subject: Re: Michelin MXV tire and its competitors
Date: 19 Aug 92 15:51:17 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: State University of New York at Buffalo / CEDAR Research Group
Originator: lps@fomalhaut.cs.buffalo.edu


In article <Bt4zC3.Cz7@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>, msingh@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (The Supreme Commander) writes:
|> >on a price/performance basis, the MXV is one of the worst tires
|> >Michelin has ever produced.  i was never happier than when i finally
|> >wore out the set that came as OE on my Alfa sedan and got to
|> >replace them with decent tires.
|> 
|> I had a set of MXV's on my '87 Integra. Now, that car is bad in slick
|> conditions as it is, but the MXV's made it *far* worse. Terrible set
|> of tires in my opinion.
|> 

I concur, MXVs are the worst set of tires I`ve ever owned.
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.driving
From: kh@sei.cmu.edu (Kurt Haverstock)
Subject: Re: Radar Detectors and regular people
Organization: Software Engineering Institute
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 16:49:21 GMT

In article Re: Radar Detectors and regular people of 13 Aug 92 15:24:34 GMT msingh@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (The Supreme Commander) writes:

>The low speed limits must
>be left over's from the 60's!
>
Actually, the early 70's. Ironically, most people were driving cars in the
60's that were juggernauts at speeds in excess of 60 mph with higher posted
legal speeds. Consider the ballistics and handling of the cars...
particularly Dodge products. 360's blazing around on bias-ply tires
with 4-wheel drum brakes just daring the driver to attempt steering
in any other direction but a straight line...yow!

>
>-- 
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>The Supreme Commander wishes you a Supreme day. 
>I'm a Magic Man, oooh, I got the magic hands, yeah...

Kurt
From: jsb@ecl.psu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Dodge Daytona R/T
Date: 17 Aug 92 13:39:16 EDT
Organization: Engineering Computer Lab, Pennsylvania State University

In article <1992Aug16.095007.17639@nntp.hut.fi>, jkosone1@vipunen.hut.fi (Jussi T Kosonen) writes: 
> 
> First of all I dunno if there is such a car at all...
> or is it Dodge Daytona IROC R/T ????
> 
> But anyway.....i'd like to know some facts about that car...
> 
> - First year when it was for sale....

This year, it's a brand new model. Will be VERY hard to find though,
only about 1000 will be built.

> - Info about the engine ...is it 2,2 litre Turbo about 200 HP???

224 hp, same engine that was previously installed in the Dodge Spirit R/T

> - And if someone owns one......tell me your opinions about it.

I don't own one, but I know a guy who does... He's very happy with it, he
claims that he's dusted off 5.0 liter mustangs with it.

My opinion: It is quick, but it has more turbo lag than my Diamond Star
turbo (2wd), doesn't really "feel" any quicker, and costs about $6,000
more. It also has a very flexy chassis, the handling would benefit
greatly if the chassis were stiffened up. It's comparative rareness
makes it somewhat exclusive, but it doesn't offer anywhere near the
"bang-for-the-buck" that a Diamond Star turbo, or Mustang 5.0 liter
does.

> - Does the body have somekind of aero-kit or is it a stock Daytona body?

It has a bit more aero goodies tacked on, but it's still quite tasteful.
It really is a quite nice-looking car.

> - Price range from new to used.

No price on used ones since it's brand-new. The going price is somewhere
around $21,000 to $22,000, depending on the dealer and the options.
 
> Any information appreciated..

I hope I've been of some help.


Greg Granville
jsb@ecl.psu.edu
From: esc@ulysses.att.com (E. Steve Crandall)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Paint Durability
Date: 20 Aug 92 14:31:21 GMT
Distribution: na


I'm in the process of shopping for a new car and will probably end
up with a Ford Probe.  The dealer tells me (and this may not be true)
that my first choice in color - bright yellow - is not available as
the factory is having problems with it.  He also claims that such
colors fade rapidly.  My second choice would be a rather loud metallic
green.  

Question:  How well do metallic paints hold up (fade etc) and are there
great differences between the colors as well as shades (dark vs light)?

thanks for any comments!

Steve Crandall
evan.crandall@att.com

Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: eliaz@csc.technion.ac.il (Amir Eliaz)
Subject: Seek Opel Corsa (Israel only)
Organization: Technion, Israel Inst. Tech., Haifa
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 18:18:37 GMT
X-Posted-From: csc.cs.technion.ac.il
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

I am looking for an Opel Corsa 1.2 L. 3/5 doors 1986/7.
Answers from Haifa(Israel) or Tel-Aviv(Israel) ONLY to :
eliaz@csc.cs.technion.ac.il

04-294326 Amir.
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: beuf@wpi.WPI.EDU (Richard J Fuller)
Subject: DEALING WITH DEALERS (THE ART OF THE DEAL)
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 17:22:53 GMT



I have been reading this news group for about 2-3 months now
and I have yet to see someone detail their experience with dealers
WHat I am looking for would be a narrative 'story' from first dealer
visited to final purchase.  How did you decide on the price you wanted, 
and more importantly what did you do to get it.


If you walk in to a dealer and say " $250 over invoice" they may or 
may not go for it
 


Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: hdasilva@cs.ulowell.edu (Herbert DaSilva)
Subject: Re: Chrysler TC by Maserati
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Lowell Computer Science
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 02:36:18 GMT

In article <92227.104714WJT101@psuvm.psu.edu> WJT101@psuvm.psu.edu writes:
>Hello,
>I just took my car in for service at my Chrysler dealer and saw one of
>these cars on the lot.  I've seen these  cars advertised used for far less
>than the original new prices of $30k to $37k.   I understand Chrysler had
>some quality problems with the early 1989 models.   Were ANY of the TC
>6 cylinder models equipped with the lousy ultradrive transmission?

  Unless I'm sadly mistaken, there never was a TC with a V6.  All TCs
  came with a TurboIII engine rated at 180hp for the auto version, and
  200hp for the 5-speed version.

>How are these cars on reliability?

  The engines were less powerful fore-runners to the current 224hp
  TurboIII, and although parts are hard to get for these particular
  motors, they should be good on reliability.

>Does anybody think they'll be a collector's item 10+ years down the
>road?  They seem like a fun and unique little roadsters for the
>money.  Any comments (good or bad) would be appreciated! 

  Whether they're collector's items depends on if someone wants to
  collect them. :-)  Unfortunately, they suffer from an identity
  crisis, as they are frequently mistaken for the substantially
  less expensive Lebaron.  The old TurboIII has plenty of punch, but
  it's pretty peaky and rather noisy (for a luxury car) compared to the
  V6 or TurboI-2.5 that is in the new Lebarons.  For about the same
  price as a used TC, I imagine you could get a brand new Lebaron GTC.

	Herb "Mopar Maniac" DaSilva
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: mcj@zycor.lgc.com ()
Subject: 1988 IROC-Z convertible for sale
Originator: mcj@miles.zycor.lgc.com
Organization: Landmark/Zycor  (Austin TX)
Distribution: tx
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 21:07:07 GMT






For sale:  1988 Chevy IROC-Z Convertible.
Color   :  Black
Engine  :  5.0L, automatic trans
Mileage :  65,000
Where   :  Austin, TX


This car is extremely clean and well maintained.  Plenty of good
gatorback tread left.  I'm asking 12,400 but that's negotiable
within reason.  Contact me at my email address for more info.


Mike



 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Michael C. Jones                                       Landmark/Zycor
mcj@zycor.lgc.com                                      220 Foremost Dr.
                                                       Austin, Texas 78745
                                                       (512) 282-6699
                                                  FAX  (512) 282-8122
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: wlp1@gte.com (William L. Papp)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: '91 '92 Dodge Caravan Wanted
Keywords: Caravan '91 '92
Date: 15 Aug 92 20:40:07 GMT
Distribution: ne
Organization: GTE Laboratories Incorporated, Waltham MA


I am looking to buy a '91 '92 Dodge Caravan. Would also 
like to here any comments on this auto.

Thanks - 

Bill Papp
wlp1@bunny.gte.com
mesa@tahiti.gte.com
harvard!bunny!wlp1
From: jfox@hooksett.East.Sun.COM (John Fox - SunExpress IR)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: $758 for an oil change?
Date: 18 Aug 1992 19:51:15 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: jfox@hooksett.East.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: hooksett.east.sun.com

In article 22971@bnr.ca, jcyuhn@crchh574.BNR.CA (James Yuhn) writes:
> tpickett@auspex.com (Tom Pickett) writes of his SHO:
> |>
> |> [ Stuff Deleted ]
> |>
> |>I called Swanson Ford in Los Gatos, CA (recommended by several people)
> |>and they said the 30,000 mile service is $550 - 575.  That includes
> |>fuel injection service (clean injectors throttle body...) changing all
> |>filters on the car, tune-up, scan all codes (computer system).  He says
> |>the SHO is actually $150 cheaper than a car with auto transmission.
> |>
> |> [ More Stuff Deleted ]
> |>
> |>Tom Pickett 
> |>tpickett@auspex.com
> |>SHO  GOZE
>    
>   These kinds of prices are what keeps the dealer in business 
>   folks. Just for reference, I performed all the 30K mile services
>   on my SHO. Here's what I spent, off the top of my head:
>  
>   Two bottles of antifreeze, plus distilled
>   water, and a good garden hose                     $10
>   Six quarts Mobil 1 and a Fram filter              $25
>   Three quarts Amsoil ATF                           $18
>   Grease seals and grease for rear bearings         $10
>   Air Filter (Fram)                                 $10 (?)                     
> Bottle of Techron  (Can't remember price on this) $??
>   Bottle of Castrol LMA brake fluid                 $5 (?)
>   Rotate tires                                      $Free
>                                                    ---------
>   Total Cost                                        $78 +
>    
>   The Taurus has no grease fittings, so one doesn't 
>   require a front end lube. I still need to replace 
>   the fuel filter, but that is about a $10 part, and
>   an easy hours labor, from start to finish. Spark
>   plugs are a 60K mile service item. SHOs have no
>   distributor.  
>   
>   So, for less than a hundred bucks, I have performed 
>   the same services, using higher quality fluids and 
>   lubricants than the dealer supplies for more than 
>   five times that amount of money. Total time invested
>   is maybe six hours. (I work slow, OK?)
>  
>   Just thought it makes an interesting comparison, and
>   shows that a little knowledge can go a long way toward
>   saving a few dollars.
>  
>  --------------------------------------
>  Jim Yuhn
>  Bell-Northern Research
>  Richardson, TX
>  


Jim, what use does an SHO have for auto tranny fluid?



John






























































Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: dclayton@bnr.ca (Don Clayton)
Subject: Re: $758 for an oil change?
Reply-To: dclayton@bnr.ca (Don Clayton)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 13:16:58 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.215551.4386@tsoft.sf-bay.org>, meiboy@tsoft.sf-bay.org (MeiBoy of UCU) writes:
|> Usually when I take my car to the Ford dealer every 7500 miles for
|> sheduled maintenance, it costs about $170 and it includes
|> oil change, checking the hoses, battery, etc., lubing the chassis,
|> and rotating the tires.  
|> But today, I took my car in for the 30,000 mile sheduled maintenance
|> service and the  guy told me it will cost $758.  And this is not
|> for fixing anything.
|> Can anybody tell me what they do at 30,000 mi. that they don't
|> do at other mileages on Ford cars?
|> Has any other Ford owners experienced the same thing at their
|> 30,000 mile maintenance?

Well, I spend $25 on oil changes (8000 Kilometers) and $125 (30000 K) on 
tune-ups on my Isuzu.  And everyone told me not to buy a Japanese car 
because the maintenance costs are higher...

My parents had a friend who owned a Ferrari and his tune-ups cost $800,
but for him the air filter was $400.  I didn't know Ford was making Ferrari's
these days :)

Man, what a rip-off!

Don
My brain, my thoughts, my words.
Let's pretend that protestants and catholics are friends.
   Northern Pikes
Xref: sparky rec.autos:20335 rec.autos.vw:4808
From: pnelson@cobra.Tymnet.COM (Phil Nelson)
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.vw
Subject: Re: Disgusting diesels (was:Re: reliable cars)
Summary: when will they die?
Date: 20 Aug 92 19:03:23 GMT
Followup-To: rec.autos
Organization: BT North America (Tymnet)


 If you have ever been trapped behind an aged, slow, stinky diesel Rabbit
you will appreciate why I think long life is among their worst features.


-- 
Phil Nelson . [ames|pyramid]!oliveb!tymix!pnelson . Voice:408-922-7508

  To make an apt answer is a joy to a man,
       and a word in season, how good it is!            Proverbs 15:23
From: Brian.E.Hannon@dartmouth.edu (Brian E. Hannon)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Does anyone like the new Prelude?
Date: 13 Aug 92 01:44:32 GMT
 <Bsw36w.8J7@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

I like it.  :-P
From: davoli@natinst.com (Russell J. Davoli)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Does anyone like the new Prelude?
Date: 12 Aug 92 17:07:35 GMT
Article-I.D.: natinst.1992Aug12.170735.24996
Distribution: usa
Organization: National Instruments Corp.

In article <BsuH1z.Byt@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, rra21220@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Rae R. Aranas) writes:
> 
> I was just wondering what
> all of the rec.auto readers
> thought about the new 
> Honda Prelude 
> 
> Looking for opinions,
> RRA

I don't like the rear end of the new Prelude.  It looks like they squished it
up the chopped off some, then added those cheesy tail lights.  Say what you
will, I don't like those triangular lights.  I guess I really didn't react
much to the front and side design when I first saw it because I have trouble
remember what they looked like.

I also took a short test drive in one, and was really underwhelmed by the
interior and dash.  The Prelude has a number of indicators set off to the
passenger side of the dash, much like my '86 200SX, and I find that under
most conditions I either can't see them or don't notice them.  Some people
may not care since I think all of those indicators were "idiot lights", but
it seems stupid to me that if you're going to the trouble to add an indicator
of any sort to put it where the driver may not notice it.  I guess it
encourages you to always have a codriver to watch those lights. :-)


-Russell Davoli
From: esprit@netcom.com (Alan F. Perry)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Does anyone like the new Prelude?
Date: 17 Aug 92 19:41:40 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <Aug17.184258.11848@engr.washington.edu> eliot@lanmola.engr.washington.edu (eliot) writes:
>
>Mr Honda retired from the company years ago.  Also, the current crop of
>Honda products that are getting booed were not designed overnight.  They
>were designed when Honda was much more popular.  In short, I don't Mr.
>Honda's death has anything to do with what Honda is offering today.
>
>eliot

I disagree.

Even though Mr. Honda retired long before he died, his presence was surely
felt.  I am sure that there are things that the company could not do
either out of respect for his wishes or possible action that he might take.

alan
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.driving,rec.autos.sport,rec.autos.tech,rec.autos.vw
From: hotshot@wam.umd.edu (Target Ace)
Subject: WANTED - VW AM/FM CASSETTE 
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 19:41:13 GMT

 I am looking for a used working VW AM/FM cassette reciever for my Jetta.
 If any of you out there have one that's been lying around or want to
 replace it with a new system...here's your chance to get rid of it :)
 Let me know how much you want for it. Thanx.

 Cheers

 Rick

Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: eliot@lanmola.engr.washington.edu (eliot)
Subject: Re: Does anyone like the new Prelude?
Organization: clearer than blir
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 18:42:20 GMT


Mr Honda retired from the company years ago.  Also, the current crop of
Honda products that are getting booed were not designed overnight.  They
were designed when Honda was much more popular.  In short, I don't Mr.
Honda's death has anything to do with what Honda is offering today.

eliot
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: jnielsen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John F Nielsen)
Subject: Re: Dealer Profit on Small Imports?
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 13:50:58 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.150847.17086@uwm.edu> greis@csd4.csd.uwm.edu writes:
>From article <1992Aug20.133521.4832@sei.cmu.edu>, by sjb@sei.cmu.edu (Sandra Bond):
>> 
>While I won't tell you what invoice is on the Colt, I assure you, the
>markup isn't that much. If you don't believe me, go to the library and look
>at what the markup is yourself. People seem to have lost sight of what
>sticker prices are in the first place. The sticker price is the price of
>the car. Invoice is what the dealer paid for the car (barring DCIs).
>The dealer is in a wholesale situation, you're in a retail situation.

That is true to some extent, but the problem is that many dealerships
have outrageous markups. My Celica was overpriced by about $4500!
Should one blindly walk in and accept whatever price is on the sticker?
Acceptable dealer profit is around $500 for most cars. I think the
reason why people are looking at invoice prices nowadays is because
of the ways dealerships have been ripping people off. In other words
it is their fault.


>Auto prices in Europe are 30-40% higher than in the US, while interest
>rates are approaching 15%. While most people feel that salesmen are slime,
>do you work strictly on commission, only to have everything after several
>hours fall through? (Because a customer shopped you, and felt they got a
>better deal by $50!!!) Why do you feel you should be able to buy a car
>for wholesale? Do  you really think that you are that special?
>When a car is with minimal markup so you don't have to dicker, you still
>want to make life hard. Arrrgh.

Don't try to take an extremist approach, I really doubt that many
people bargain just to get $50. In most cases this issue is several
thousand dollars. I think most people agree that dealerships should
make a profit, what people don't like is their dishonest tactics to
gouge a consumer.

When you walk in and look at a car, how can you tell whether or not
it is reasonably priced. Can you figure out in your head how much
it cost to develop,build, promote the car, and then add acceptable
dealer profit? If one has no basis of knowledge, one could eaisly
pay $12,000 instead of $10,000 for a car and still think they paid
a reasonable price. Also, a big difference between buying a car and
normal retail is that A LOT more money is at stake.

To the original poster:

Go take a look at Edmund's. It is ALWAYS better to come in informed.
How can you know ahead of time whether or not this is a honest
dealership which is not trying to charge $2000 extra for no good
reason? 

john

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
John Nielsen   MAGNUS Consultant            ______   ______   __  __	
"I can't compete with you physically,      /\  __ \ /\  ___\ /\ \/\ \
and you're no match for my brains."   	   \ \ \/\ \\ \___  \\ \ \_\ \
From: wiryaman@riscee.pko.dec.com (Santa Wiryaman)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Toyota markup
Date: 20 Aug 92 13:36:13 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation, Maynard MA

In article <1992Aug19.222426.22766@wlbr.iipo.gtegsc.com> simon@wlbr.iipo.gtegsc.com (Mark Simon) writes:
>
>The sleazeperson will whine that they need to cover other costs like
>advertising.  Tell him to take it out of the $600.  I bought my '91
>Celica GT this way in Dec. '90 (actually, the dealer wanted $660 more
>and I relented).  I saved over $2,500 this way (better than the $1,000
>rebates off LIST that the dealerships usually offer).
>
>Good luck.  The Celica is a great car.
>
>-- Mark
>

If it was a manufacturer's rebate, it is off whatever price the dealer agreed to
sell the car, not from LIST price.  So if the dealer cost was really accurate,
then they made $1,600 profit, not $600.  This is a tactic dealers like to play
with rebate.  If you want to deal from list price, they'll give you the rebate.
If you want to deal from dealer's cost, they try not to include the rebate,
and at closing they'll ask you to sign the rebate form, assigning the rebate
to the dealer.


-- 
Santa Wiryaman

INTERNET : wiryaman@riscee.pko.dec.com
UUCP     : ...!decwrl!riscee.pko.dec.com!wiryaman
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: dwjz@bcarh975.bnr.ca (Doug Zolmer)
Subject: Re: Honda Civic Bashing continues...
Organization: BNR Europe Ltd, Maidenhead, UK
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 20:50:05 GMT

In article <1992Aug21.200306.11526@mlb.semi.harris.com> cbh@opus.mlb.semi.harris.com (Cherie Slasor) writes:
>Actually, this is kind of interesting.  Are the pro-Civic'ers Democrats
>and anti-Civic'ers Republicans?  Just curious.......    :^)
>

Even with all those problems I listed with my '92 Civic EX, I'm _still_
a happy Honda owner.  What's a democrat and a republican?  We have
three main political parties and some fringe parties here in Canada.
I like the Reform party (it's a fringe party).  I'll let you guys 
figure out what that means...

>
>
>-- 
>====================================================================
>Cherie Slasor			     |	Harris Semiconductor
>Phone:    (407) 724-7607	     |	P.O. Box 883, MS #62B-022
>          cbh@mlb.semi.harris.com    |  Melbourne, FL   32902-0883


--
dwjz@bnr.ca  Voice: +1 613 763-8217  Disclaimer: my opinions only
From: rxkgre@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au (Geof Evans)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: alt.autos.antique
Date: 13 Aug 92 19:58:04 GMT
Organization: RMIT Computer Centre, Melbourne Australia.

dpl@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (douglas.p.linden) writes:

>Is alt.autos.antique still alive and active? I have asked that
>it be added to our server, but i have not seen any cross-postings
>which leads me to believe the group may not exist any more.

<<<* Over my dead terminal ! (easy to arrange 8->) No I think that
     traffic in alt.autos.antique is inversely proportional to the 
     amount of oil burnt at midnight by grease stained nitrous crazed
     looneys...who will be back to posting when they 're done wrenching.
     That's my theory anyway. Me Dave & Phil are still here...aren't we ?
     Hey guys...guys ??? Heellloooo....anybody out there.
                                                         CFN-Bigfoot.
-- 
  ___________________________________________________________________  
|| Geof Evans                 | DOMAIN: rxkgre@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au  ||
|| Melbourne,Australia 3000   | Tel: +61 3 663 3663		     ||
||   If they *really* wanna know...tell 'em that God was drunk.      ||
||___________________________________________________________________||

			
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.driving,rec.autos.sport,rec.autos.tech,rec.autos.vw