HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: harvey@indyvax.iupui.edu
Subject: Re: Frosh (was Re: Sexist language (was...
Organization: Indiana University-Purdue University at Indianapolis
Date: 18 Dec 92 23:35:53 -0500

In article <BzG3B8.Kvz@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu>, mmmirash@banshee.ecn.uoknor.edu (Mandar M. Mirashi) writes:
>[much deleted]
>     My only contention was that English spread to other lands from
> England. She is the mother country of the English language. Hence, the
> English used in England is the yardstick by which other dialects must
> be measured.

Sheesh.  Well, suppose MY contention is that Latin spread to other lands
from Italy.  She is the mother country of the Latin language.  Hence, the
Latin used in Italy (now considered a distinct language, Italian) is the
yardstick by which all other dialects of Latin must be measured.

Mandar, only a bozo would believe this argument.  Surely you can see that?

>[more deleted]
>[about his opinions, if you find them...]
> offensive, DON'T read them. Or, if you would like to dispute them, present
> cogent arguments.

Others have done so.  You appear to be completely immune to the effects of
any rational argument.  This causes people to become frustrated, abandon the
use of rational arguments, and flame you instead.

>[more deleted]
> Learn how to make a kill file and you'll be rid of the "nuisance called
> Mandar".   ;)

Excellent suggestion.  Welcome to my kill file.
--
James Harvey
harvey@iupui.edu
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: American English
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 18:48:33 GMT

In article <BzBw0p.At5@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu> mmmirash@midway.ecn.uoknor.edu (Mandar M. Mirashi) writes:
>In article <1992Dec15.192716.1855@netcom.com> sue@netcom.com (Sue Miller) writes:
>>Mandar M. Mirashi burbles:
>>>
>>> [ other attributions deleted cuz Mandar hosed them ]

>>As far as the discussion regarding "native speakers" and what
>>constitutes same, it is worth noting that I completely reject
>>your opinions regarding this topic as well.  I come a lot closer
>>to concurring with Roger's viewpoint than yours, especially
>>since I think he has a far more informed point of view.

>>In the snippet above I was saying that anyone who speaks intelligible
>>English is an English speaker, and s/he has an effect on the
>>language through interactions with other English speakers.  Probably
>>a proportionally greater effect than native speakers (as in, those
>>who have spoken the language from birth).  There is nothing the
>>matter with such innovations, although only a tiny few will be deemed
>>useful by a majority of English speakers and adopted.  This opinion
>>flies directly in the face of your adamant belief that we should
>>all be looking up to a small subset of English speakers as the
>>Keepers of the True English.

>Yes it does; but it also flies in the face of Roger's definition of
>"native" speaker (Look up your article where you asserted that the
>word "native" doesn't count anyway). 

Still can't read, eh, Mandar?  

She said that anyone who can speak the language is a *speaker,*
not a *native* speaker.  She and I agree on what a *native* speaker
is -- and so does everyone else except Mandar.  

Nor did she say that the *word* "native" doesn't count -- you really
*do* need some remedial written-comprehension training.  She said
that one shouldn't restrict oneself to polling native speakers when 
studying the language.  "Native" doesn't count when choosing people
for a language study, she said.

Roger


Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: slb22@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Seth "the Lesser")
Subject: Re: Something NEW, ferGawdzake! 
Organization: Generic American College Kids (G.A.C.K.)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 16:01:03 GMT
Reply-To: slb22@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Seth "the Lesser")
X-Posted-From: cunixb.cc.columbia.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig) writes:
>
>Does all this have to do with language?  You betcha.  Social conventions
>are a form of communication; we say as much with our bodies as we do
>with our organs of speech.  

I think the point was that this is alt.usage.english, not
alt.semiotics.anglophone.

(Gee, now there's a thought.  Anyone for alt.semiotics?)

Seth L. Blumberg          \ Warning: This posting has been determined to cause
slb22@columbia.edu (play)   \ cancer in laboratory animals.  Please make sure
sethb@ctr.columbia.edu (work) \ that no white mice are allowed to read it.  
    > No one I know shares my opinions, least of all Columbia University. <
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: iad@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Ivan A Derzhanski)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Who vs. Whom (FAQ?)
Date: 11 Dec 92 12:51:39 GMT
Organization: Centre for Cognitive Science, Edinburgh, UK

In article <ByxqyA.F2L@techbook.com> dant@techbook.com (Dan Tilque) writes:
>
>It's simple.  Use "whom" when you're putting on airs, "who" otherwise.

Says whom?

("`Whom are you?' he said -- for he had been to evening school.")

-- 
 `D'ye mind tellin me whit the two o ye are gaun oan aboot?' (The Glasgow
Ivan A Derzhanski  (iad@cogsci.ed.ac.uk; iad@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu)    Gospel)
* Centre for Cognitive Science,  2 Buccleuch Place,  Edinburgh EH8 9LW,  UK
* Cowan House, Pollock Halls, 18 Holyrood Park Road, Edinburgh EH16 5BD, UK
From: hayesstw@risc1.unisa.ac.za (Steve Hayes)
Subject: Re: plural of aircraft?
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 06:59:37 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of South Africa

In article <1992Dec16.183424.18332@news.arc.nasa.gov> watson@pioneer.arc.nasa.gov (John S. Watson - FSC) writes:
>
>We got into a debate over this at lunch yesterday:
>What is the plural or the word "aircraft"? 
>Is it "aircraft" or "aircrafts" or both?

It's aircraft.

I've never seen "aircrafts" in writing, nor have I ever heard it in speech.

A similar mistake I have seen quite a lot in writing, though, and have had 
to correct when editing, is "broadcasted". The past tense of broadcast is 
broadcast.

Steve Hayes, Department of Missiology & Editorial Department
Univ. of South Africa, P.O. Box 392, Pretoria, 0001 South Africa
Internet: hayesstw@risc1.unisa.ac.za
          steve.hayes@f20.n7101.z5.fidonet.org
From: chorley@vms.ocom.okstate.edu
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Ted Koppel (was note to Mandar)
Date: 15 Dec 92 21:37:46 GMT
Organization: OSU College of Osteopathic Medicine

In article <BzAF8B.AB2@unixhub.SLAC.Stanford.EDU>, streater@jupiter.SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Tim Streater) writes:
> In article <1992Dec15.021703.5108@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> J.Theodore.Schuerzinger@dartmouth.edu (J. Theodore Schuerzinger) writes:
>>
>>I thought Ted Koppel was originally from the UK.
>>
> With an accent like his? Come come come!
> 
> "Ted Koppel" is only a pseudonym, anyway. His real name is Alfred E. Nueman.
> 
> Tim.

I believe Ted Koppel was born in Lancashire while his parents were refugees
from Nazi Germany.
It's Alfred E. Neuman anyway 

DNC. sorcerer's apprentice
From: mmmirash@banshee.ecn.uoknor.edu (Mandar M. Mirashi)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Frosh (was Re: Sexist language (was...
Date: 20 Dec 92 05:52:05 GMT
Organization: Engineering Computer Network, University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK, USA

In article <1992Dec17.150431.10888@vax.oxford.ac.uk> wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk writes:
>In article <BzBsyn.9IH@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu>, mmmirash@midway.ecn.uoknor.edu (Mandar M. Mirashi) writes:
>> Why does "man" evoke the image of a man only, and "woman" not evoke the
>> image of a man? 
>
>Could it perhaps be that "woman" only refers to female members of the species
>homo sapiens sapiens?
>
And where did you learn that? In your school, obviously. If someone had
pointed out the reverse, you would have accepted it ungrudgingly (
assuming of course, that you were a child when you learnt the word "man").
Similarly, a child would have no problems in associating man with "men"
AND "women" and woman with only women, as long as examples of its usage
are illustrated.


>> After all, "woman" does contain "man". It is just that
>> you have learnt to associate "woman" with a woman and not a man. 
>
>And have also learnt to associate "man" with a male member of homo sapiens
>sapiens.
>

And have learnt to associate "man" with women too. (depending
upon the context) At least *I* have; I don't know about you.


>-- 
>
>Stephen Wilcox             |   For Sale: Posts in British Government. Suit
>wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk    |   outgoing American. Highest bids accepted.

                                                             Mandar.
-- 
"Imagine there are no countries. It isn't hard to do. Nothing to kill or die 
 for, and no religion too. Imagine all the people living life in peace.
 You may say that I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one. I hope that some
 day you'll join us, and the world will be as one." - John Lennon.
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: kgs@panix.com (K.G.Schneider)
Subject: Sources for OED2 Online?
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 05:47:40 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC
Keywords: oed2

Forgive me if this has been FAQ'd to death, but I am looking for
free connections--if any exist--for OED2 online. 

 
-- 
Karen G. Schneider kgs@access.net
"For there's a measure of a kind/And so I'll know just what I've missed
 For I have never known a time/In all my life like this"--Alix Dobkin

Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: prener@watson.ibm.com (Dan Prener)
Subject: Re: Freshman thing...
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 07:16:45 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center, Hawthorne, New York

In article <1992Dec15.115846.2832@cnsvax.uwec.edu> prochnpd@cnsvax.uwec.edu writes:

> Forget the Freshman thing...

> They are:

> 	People that haven't met the requirements to be a sophmore...

Oh.  You mean the sophomorically disadvantaged.
--
                                   Dan Prener (prener@watson.ibm.com)
From: mmmirash@banshee.ecn.uoknor.edu (Mandar M. Mirashi)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Sexist Language
Date: 18 Dec 92 06:55:26 GMT
Followup-To: soc.college,alt.usage.english
Organization: Engineering Computer Network, University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK, USA


In article <101955@netnews.upenn.edu>, pezzillo@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Amy J. Pezzillo) writes:
> In article <1992Dec14.163456.9037@hobbes.kzoo.edu> k044477@hobbes.kzoo.edu (Jamie R. McCarthy) writes:
>>gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener) writes:
>>>

>>And, as we all know, there's nothing sexist about someone writing "he"
>>in place of "he or she."  People who have to resort to artificial,
>>politically correct non-words like "first-year" and the singular "they"
>>are uneducated malcontents with nothing to do, and they're making up
>>problems where none exist.
>>
>>Right?
> 
Exactly, couldn't have said better.

Darrick Mix
Georgetown University
mix@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu
From: indy@immacc.prepnet.com (Dave Tartaglia)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Sophomore rhyme
Date: 17 Dec 1992 09:38:51 -0600
Organization: 'Immaculata College, PA '
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

Someone asked for a rhyme with sophomore.  Here's one I made up:

Med student was he and a sophomore.
No digital grope did he abhor.
His hernial quest 
Brought tears to the best
Causing the rest just to cough more.

Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: evan@hpl.hp.com (Evan Kirshenbaum)
Subject: Re: "a" and sthenic
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 18:06:07 GMT
Reply-To: kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories

In article <BzAyrC.58v@cs.umu.se> dvldbg@cs.umu.se (Daniel Brahneborg) writes:
>Hi!
>
>In a book I have about Natural Language Processing they mention the
>word "sthenic", and say that "no self-respecting native speaker of
>English would dream of using it". Unfortunately neither I nor my
>850-pages english dictionary have ever heard of the word.
>Anybody have any ideas?

You need a new dictionary! :-)  From M/W NCD:

   sthen-ic /'sTEn Ik/ adj [NL 'sthenicus', fr. Gk 'sthenos' strength]
    1 : notably or excessively vigorous or energetic <~ fever> <~
    emotions>  2 : PYKNIC


   pyk-nic /'pIk nIk/ adj [ISV, fr. Gk 'pyknos' dens, stocky--more at
    PYCNIDIUM] : characterized by shortness of stature, broadness of
    girth, and powerful muscularity : ENDOMORPHIC 2b -- pyknic n


No, I'd never heard of either of them either.

>I also wonder about the usage of "a". The same book mentions somewhere
>"... logic is too restricted a language ...". Are there any rules for
>when to put "a" after the adjectives instead of before? It clearly
>only works in a very limited range of situations, I just can't figure
>out which.

I would characterize it more as putting the article in front of the
noun, or more properly, the adverb subcategorizing for an adjective
and a noun phrase.

From a moment's introspection, this seem to occur when you comment on
the *extent* that an adjective applies to a noun:

	Logic is too restricted a language.
	How can he think of climbing so large a mountain?
	You can't tame that fierce a beast.
	how large a budget are we talking about?

It also seems allowable when commenting on the applicability of the
noun to its referent:

	he's (not) enough (of) a hero for my taste.

although this seems much more iffy.

Evan Kirshenbaum		       +------------------------------------
    HP Laboratories		       | He who will not reason, is a bigot;
    3500 Deer Creek Road, Building 26U | he who cannot is a fool; and he who
    Palo Alto, CA  94304	       | dares not is a slave.
				       |               Sir William Drummond
    kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com	       | 
    (415)857-7572
From: thayes@desire.wright.edu
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Freshman thing...
Date: 16 Dec 92 17:20:53 EST
Organization:  Wright State University 

>> Forget the Freshman thing...
> 
>> They are:
> 
>> 	People that haven't met the requirements to be a sophmore...
> 
DP> Oh.  You mean the sophomorically disadvantaged.

Sort of.  I prefer to think of them as "sophomorically impaired," maybe even
"sophomorically challenged."  Just as the less adept students in my classes are
"correct answer impaired"...

-----ted hayes
From: djohns@elm.circa.ufl.edu (David A. Johns)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Who vs. Whom (FAQ?)ex
Date: 12 Dec 92 13:00:43 GMT
Organization: University of Florida, Gainesville

In article <1992Dec8.143433.60325@qut.edu.au> heard@qut.edu.au writes:

# A couple of people have given gramatical rules to work
# out whether to say "who" or "whom". I would like to
# pass on a method I learnt from my fifth grade teacher
# (Thankyou Mr Tonkin).
#
# Re-cast the sentence so that it is no longer a
# question, and to use the singular masculine pronoun.
#
# If you would use "he", in the re-cast sentence the
# sentence needs "who".
#
# If you would use "him", in the re-cast sentence the
# sentence needs "whom".
#
# Thus:
# "Who* did you invite?" becomes
# "Did you invite him?"
#                         and therefore demands "whom".
#
# "Who* cares?" becomes
# "He cares."
#                         and therefore demands "who"


Good approximation, but it doesn't always work.  For instance:

"I don't know who* bought the cheese"
"I don't know him"
        but "I don't know whom bought the cheese" is wrong.

"Give one to who*ever comes through the door"
"Give one to him"
        but "Give one to whomever comes through the door" is wrong.

David Johns


Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: eepjm@wombat.newcastle.edu.au (Peter Moylan)
Subject: Re: who or whom
Organization: University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 02:41:06 GMT

In article <baron.76.723764449@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>, baron@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Dennis Baron) writes:

> In any case, reports of the death of *whom* seem premature.

Ask not for whom the bell tolls.  It tolls for "whom".

(Not to mention "thee".)

-- 
Peter Moylan                      eepjm@wombat.newcastle.edu.au
From: TSOS@uni-duesseldorf.de (Detlef Lannert)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: "Conferencing": Is it a word?
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 12:26:57 GMT
Organization: Universitaetsrechenzentrum, Heinrich-Heine-Universitaet, Duesseldorf
NNTP-Posting-Host: lannert.rz.uni-duesseldorf.de

In article <JJAS.92Dec7211223@acs.nntp-read.bu.edu> jjas@acs.nntp-read.bu.edu (Jason Stephenson) writes:

>Some people seem to take things a bit too seriously around here, and I believe
>that I shall just keep my yap shut in the future.  All of this is irrelevant,
>anyway.           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Oh, don't! If it weren't for the irrelevant stuff, why would I read a.u.e??

You shouldn't take it too seriously when people start conferencing about 
such a topic. You can be sure that when you get a lot of answers, the(!) 
correct one will be among them.

If it's at least a bit unique, I mean.
--
Detlef Lannert      DC3EK      E-Mail: tsos@rz.uni-duesseldorf.de
"Gedanken sind nicht stets parat,
man schreibt auch, wenn man keine hat."             Wilhelm Busch
From: J.Theodore.Schuerzinger@dartmouth.edu (J. Theodore Schuerzinger)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Sexist Language and Thinking
Date: 20 Dec 92 19:46:59 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
X-Posted-From: InterNews1.0b1@newshost.dartmouth.edu

Somebody recently said that just because you change a few words in a
language, it doesn't mean that sexism will vanish; sexism is in the
minds of the people speaking the language.

To wit, I include an excerpt from a letter by Derek Roff to "Esperanto
USA". the publication of the Esperanto League for North America,
printed in the 1992 (2) edition.

A little background: Nouns in Esperanto can refer to either gender. 
One who wishes to specify gender can use the suffix -in to specify
female or the prefix vir- to specify male.  (There is also a prefix ge-
used to specify a group of both genders.)  Many people think Esperanto
is in some way sexist because there is no suffix for the male gender. 
Anyhow, Mr. Roff writes:

"Our knowledge of sexism in our culture influences our analysis.  We
see Esperanto as having a 'monumental slight toward women' because it
lacks a male suffix.  Imagine if the reverse were true, that Esperanto
had *only* a male suffix.  Would we feel that the language slights men?
 No, I am sure ... [we] would albe screaming that this is a terrible
*anti-woman* feature of the language.  Odd, isn't it, that even
reversing the roles, the situation still seems anti-woman.  This is
because we know that society is anti-woman, and tends to turn any
difference against the oppressed."

--Ted Schuerzinger
email: .zed@Dartmouth.EDU
"I should have known it would be bad vodka when all the label said was
'Russian Vodka'."
From: tariqh@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Tariq Hamid)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Excrement in the English Language
Keywords: scatology, slang
Date: 18 Dec 92 14:48:21 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept, QMW, University of London

In <BzGIz2.Lv@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk> dam@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (David Morning) writes:

>tariqh@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Tariq Hamid) writes:

>>I've  heard "diddly squat" being used by in Scotland, I also heard it being used
>>in some american tv shows and films by characters when they want to sound quaint.

>In Scotland? Must have been an American tourist you met.
>Not in use up here.

>Keech (Scottish 'ch') is common though as in "Don't talk keech'
>Means rubbish in that phrase but it also has an excremental meaning.


>Dave

>-- 


Yes I've heard it being used in Scotland by native Scots (some with red hair
incidentally). As for Keech isn't that something you have for breakfast ? :)
Don't you mean Keekh ?  OK, I know what you mean the Scottish 'ch' as in loch.


Another variation on the theme is "Shite". This is used in the north of England
(e.g. Manchester) and in Scotland.

Any other takers for "diddly squat" ? :)

Monty Pfuq Ya Bass,

tariq
--

Tariq Hamid	                 	Internet:  tariqh@dcs.qmw.ac.uk
 Department of Computer Science  	JANET:     tariqh@uk.ac.qmw.dcs
  Queen Mary & Westfield College  
   Mile End Road                   	  Telephone:  +44 71-975 5245
    LONDON, E1 4NS, UK             	  Fax:        +44 81-980 6533
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid)
Subject: Re: "a" and sthenic
Organization: Eris's Restaurant
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 18:54:28 GMT

In article <29704@castle.ed.ac.uk> cam@castle.ed.ac.uk (Chris Malcolm) writes:
>In article <BzAyrC.58v@cs.umu.se> dvldbg@cs.umu.se (Daniel Brahneborg) writes:
>>In a book I have about Natural Language Processing they mention the
>>word "sthenic", and say that "no self-respecting native speaker of
>>English would dream of using it".
>The clue is "speaker", since in speech saying "you're a sthenic" is
>easily confused with the more common "you're asthenic", which not only
>means the opposite, but also carries a historical presumption of
>masturbation. So, if you go into your local biker bar and seek to
>curry favour with some large hairy brute by referring to him as "a
>sthenic" you are likely to be misunderstood.

Chris,
	if I could find a large hairy biker brute who's capable of
recognising "asthenic", my delight would be unbounded :)

				Kay
-- 
6'2", dark short hair, blue eyes, bisexual and horny as ....
Kay Dekker, Dept of Industrial Design, Coventry University, Coventry UK
37 Old Winnings Road, Keresley Village, Coventry   |B0 f t+ g++ k++! s+ e r p!
Phone: +44 203 838668 (work) +44 203 337865 (home) |Deflowerer-of-innocents
From: wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: some questions
Date: 17 Dec 92 15:14:37 GMT
Distribution: alt
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620

In article <1992Dec16.071546.12908@osf.org>, sp@osf.org (Simon Patience) writes:
>> 3)  John mumbled that he was a genius in mathematics, but he actually 
>>     isn't.
> 
> I would replace the "but he actually isn't" with "but actually he wasn't".
> The isn't -> wasn't is to agree with the past tense in first part of the
> sentence and I have no idea why I want to move "actually" but it sounds 
> better to me.

If the sentence is supposed to express that John thinks he is a genius but is
actually a dunce, then it is correct as it stands. I can't think of any logical
explanation for changing isn't to wasn't, unless John said something
paradoxical. ("I am a genius in mathematics, but actually I'm not")

-- 

Stephen Wilcox             |   For Sale: Posts in British Government. Suit
wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk    |   outgoing American. Highest bids accepted.
From: TSOS@uni-duesseldorf.de (Detlef Lannert)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Who vs. Whom (FAQ?)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 13:24:42 GMT
Organization: Universitaetsrechenzentrum, Heinrich-Heine-Universitaet, Duesseldorf
NNTP-Posting-Host: lannert.rz.uni-duesseldorf.de

In article <101113@netnews.upenn.edu> crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Lauren L. Crawford) writes:

>Did you know that "whom" with a "p" on the end spells "whomp"?

These psilent consonants are extremnely difficult to pronounce and can 
cause a great deale of confusion.

>I'm having a _very_ long day.

Strange. On this side of the pond, the nights tend to be _very_ short.
--
Detlef Lannert       DC3EK       E-Mail: tsos@rz.uni-duesseldorf.de
"I am Psmith." - "Oh, you're Smith, are you?" - "With a preliminary
P. Which, however, is not sounded."                   P.G.Wodehouse