From: martinc@grover.cs.unc.edu (Charles R. Martin)
Newsgroups: alt.sex,soc.singles
Subject: Re: Time for Therapy?
Date: 15 Apr 92 15:33:45 GMT
Followup-To: alt.sex
Distribution: usa
Organization: /theta/theta5/unc/martinc/.organization
In-reply-to: sl298025@silver.ucs.indiana.edu's message of 10 Apr 92 06:53:37 GMT

In article <1992Apr10.015342.5329@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> sl298025@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Lawrence Livermore) writes:

   I've been perusing the self-help section in the bookstore.  Reading a lot 
   about co-dependence.   

   I also feel that the definition I have picked up is way too broad.  It makes
   every relationship I have every seen a pathology.

Not unreasonable question, especially given some of the books'
definitions.  (One of my favorite has the subtitle "Healing the Human
Condition"). 

   So, my question is: how does one know when one is in a situation that
   requires professional help?

Probably Freud's definition is as good as any: when the problems
interfere with your ability to work and to love.  When you find yourself
unable to get on with life, or find yourself impeded *unreasonably* when
you try to do normal things.  (Me, I started therapy when I found I was
having trouble getting out of bed for days at a time.  Depression is a
real good symptom.)

   When is it truly an addiction that has to be treated?

There are checklists of these sorts of things.  Some of the CoDep books
have quizzes that give a sort of codependency index.

   Are there some undeniable signs?

Repetition of very similar bad relationships.  Repeated nightmares,
especially of abuse.  Inappropriate rages or inability to feel
appropriate anger.  Pathological inability to ask for what you need.  A
deep and non-specific sense of shame about youself.

   I don't trust home-brew psychology.  I also do not intend to heal
   myself.

Be careful here.  Your therapist isn't a car mechanic.  She (nominal)
isn't going to put you on the rack and take out your codependency -- but
she will help you find ways to heal yourself.

   The mechanics of the brain are not such that they easily avail themselves to
   sure fixes.

   Denial.  That is what makes me sure I could never truly fix something that
   was killing me.

Umm, did I meantion about a sense of hopelessness, or powerlessness, as
a symptom?

   So, out there, anyone know for sure how do I tell?

No.  No one but you.  As a first approximation, try finding a therapist
for an evaluation.  You've got a .edu address -- try your counseling
center. 

   And if I got the disease, what course of treatment is best? I seem to
   recall that group therapy is best with behavior disorders.  Most bang
   for the buck.

Codependence isn't really a behavioral disorder, it's more a personality
disorder; it has more to do with one's sense of "self" and how it has
been affected by breakdowns in the process of maturing and separating
from the parents during childhood.  And also -- in my opinion -- with a
sense of existential or narcissicistic shame, a sense that one deep down
has no essential worth.

Some people think very highly of 12 step programs; these may help you.
I can get you a phone number for Codependents Anonymous if you want.
Group therapy can help, so can individual therapy.  CoDA is certainly
the least expensive approach, although I have my qualms about sort of
12-step-group dependency as a substitute addiction.  Get in touch with
me about good 12 step books if you want.

   I want this fixed fast and cheap if it is something that requires
   professional attention.

"Good, cheap, fast: pick two."  

   If anyone has such a checklist, please forward it to me.

   Thanks.

   Confused in Indiana

You're more than welcome.  And I mean that literally -- you're welcome
to contact me further.  It's scary enough to just come out and say "I
think I may have a problem."  You done good.
--
Charles R. Martin/(Charlie)/martinc@cs.unc.edu/(ne crm@cs.duke.edu) 
O/Department of Computer Science/Sitterson Hall/UNC/Chapel Hill, NC 27599
H/3611 University Dr #13M/Durham, NC 27707/(919) 419 1754
The universe is full of magical things patiently waiting for our wits to
grow sharper.  -- Eden Phillpot, I'm told.  Anyone have a better reference?
Newsgroups: soc.singles