HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: levin@bbn.com (Joel B Levin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Inauguration ceremony
Date: 22 Jan 93 21:25:09 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com

In <1993Jan22.165621.29469@ecrc.de> sanjiva@ecrc.de (Sanjiva Prasad) asks:
|At one stage the band played the tune that Monty Python adopted as
|the theme music (An indication of things to come in the Clinton era?).
|Will someone kindly enlighten me by telling me the name of this tune, 
|who composed it, etc?   [Where are those Cliff Notes on Python (Monty)?]

It's John Phillip Sousa's Liberty March, believe it or not.  Same
American composer who wrote The Stars and Stripes Forever, The
Washington Post March, etc.

I have heard it supposed that one might think of Clinton saying, in
the voice of John Cleese, "And now, for something completely
different."

	/J (sorry I can't post to a Clinton newsgroup frome here)
=
Nets: levin@bbn.com  |  "There were sweetheart roses on Yancey Wilmerding's
POTS: (617)873-3463  |  bureau that morning.  Wide-eyed and distraught, she
              N1MNF  |  stood with all her faculties rooted to the floor."
                     |					-- S. J. Perelman
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: stame@emunix.emich.edu (Stewart Tame)
Subject: Re: "Harlan Ellison's Watching" by Harlan Ellison
Organization: Eastern Michigan University
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 16:37:06 GMT

In article <93022.170004U19807@uicvm.uic.edu> <U19807@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:
>In article <leo.727693316@draconis>, leo@cp.tn.tudelft.nl (Leo Breebaart) says:
>
>>Anyway, I have a question for the Harlan experts out there: in the book,
>>Harlan mentions working on a major Hollywood movie screenplay, but he is
>>so embarrassed about what eventually became of it that he doesn't even
>>want to tell us the name of that movie. But of course I'm just dying
>>to know which movie he's talking about. Does anybody know?
>
>It'd probably be "The Oscar". Judging by the amount of times he both brings
>up and disparages the movie in his nonfiction pieces, it must be (for want
>of a more polite term) a particularly hideous piece of shit. On the other
>hand,since he's had to _review_ some real clinkers since then,he's probably
>gotten over the self-deprecation stage by now.
>

Actually the screenplay was probably _I, Robot_ which was serialized in
Asimov's SF Magazine I believe.  There's also a screenplay included with
the limited edition hardcover of _The Harlan Ellison Hornbook_ (one
incentive to start saving my pennies for it . . . ), the title of which
is something like _Harlan Ellison's Movie_ . . . the screenplay is *not*
included with the mass market hardcover which pisses me off to no end.

		-- Stewart "suspects Harlan lets stuff go out of print
				on purpose" Tame

****************************************************************************
 I understand it's obligatory to mention Kibo somewhere in one's postings.
****************************************************************************
		Email:  stame@emunix.emich.edu
****************************************************************************
Disclaimer:  Not only do my opinions represent those of Eastern Michigan
University, but also those of Dan Quayle, Richard Nixon, Frank Zappa,
Pee-wee Herman, Bart Simpson, Tipper Gore, Murphy Brown, Maggie Thatcher,
and the Easter Bunny.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: ggm@brolga.cc.uq.oz.au (George Michaelson)
Subject: Re: Buried Treasure -or- So, whaddaya use for bookmarks?
Organization: Prentice Centre, University of Queensland
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1993 05:12:36 GMT

jaskew@spam.maths.adelaide.edu.au (Joseph Askew) writes:

>I just happen to be reading a book on the Dutch East India Company at
>the moment (Pepper Guns and Parleys, the D.E.I.C and China 1622-1681
>by John E Wills Jr.) and the author mentions that in going through the
>records of the V.O.C. he found a quill placed between the pages of a
>record book. This, he presumes, had been left there for 300 years!
>It would appear this is a common phenomena!

Dumas: Monte Cristo. The Abbe is secretary to an impoverished Italian
Count and going through his library finds a roman manuscript stuffed
into a book which details where the family jools are hidden. Of course
to keep the av.  14-year-olds blood pulsing the manuscript is ripped in
half vertically and cunning old devil, he re-creates the right hand
half of the entire text by mental agility alone. Holy textual analysis
Batman!

I say "up you" to all these quiche-eater book borrowers who
sanctimoniously refuse to turn down the corners of their tomes.  Go and
Read Myles Na Gopleen praise of the irish book-handling service for
illiterate wealthies: No finer proof of your literary skill than to
annotate that edition of Proust with "how true" "oh yes, I recall that
so well" against the finer chunks of Onanism.

	-George
--
                         George Michaelson
G.Michaelson@cc.uq.oz.au The Prentice Centre      | There's no  market for
                         University of Queensland | hippos in Philadelphia
Phone: +61 7 365 4079    QLD Australia 4072       |          -Bertold Brecht
From: lmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Laurie Mann)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: "Harlan Ellison's Watching" by Harlan Ellison
Date: 26 Jan 93 17:54:49 GMT
Reply-To: lmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com
Organization: Stratus Computer Inc, Marlboro MA
NNTP-Posting-Host: ansible.pubs.stratus.com

Stewart Tame writes
>In article <93025.114017U19807@uicvm.uic.edu> <U19807@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:
>>In article lmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Laurie Mann) says:
>>>I think he was talking about that "classic," The Oscar.
>>Oh,most definitely...his references to it in _The Glass Teat_ make it seem
>>like Harlan cringes merely by typing in the _title_,much less talking about
>>it at length. 
>Are you sure you aren't
>confusing it with _The Doomsman_ which was a double book with some John
>Brunner novel or something like that.  I heard a story about some fan who
>tried to get Harlan to autograph a copy of TD and Harlan proceeded to
>tear it to shreds.

It's possible, but I wonder if this might be an urban legend.

I was told by "someone who knew Harlan" that he would rip up the copy of  
Rockabilly that I had dug out of my father's book collection in 1976 if I tried  
to get him to autograph it.  (It's not a terrible book, considering Harlan  
wrote it when he was VERY young.  It included words like "hippie" meaning  
something like "beatnick" and the book was written in the late '50s!)

Despite being told that, when I met Harlan at a con, I asked him to autograph  
it.

Harlan held the crumbling book and said, "Gee, I haven't seen this edition in a  
long time" and proceded to sign it without further ado."  The book was even  
republished later that year as Spider Kiss.

I have met Harlan in person a few times, and I've found so long as you are  
polite to him, he's generally polite in return.  My only "run-in" with Harlan  
was after I wrote a mixed review of some of his stories in the late '70s in an  
extremely obscure fanzine.  The faned sent Harlan a copy.  Harlan called the  
faned in the middle of the night to complain extravagently.  I thought that was  
pretty unprofessional.  (I mean, I didn't write an "Ellison's writing is sh*t"  
sort of review, I wrote an "Ellison is one of my favorite writers, but I find  
these stories disappointing and here's why" sort of review.)

** lmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Internet) Laurie.Mann (GEnie) **
******      And now for something completely different...     ******
From: vandenbe@eris.cs.umass.edu (Scott Vandenberg)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Books we're too righteous to censor-- but would like to
Date: 28 Jan 93 21:45:35 GMT
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst

In article <C1JuAn.LL@panix.com>, mtaranto@panix.com (Mark Taranto) writes:
|> 
|> S.Courtenage@cs.ucl.ac.uk (Simon) writes:
|> 
|> > I once read an article by someone complaining about this kind of
|> > literature and saying that in general any book whose opening line gave
|> > the name of the main character fell into this class, e.g.
|> 
[deleted-slv]
|> 
|> Here are ten counter-examples:
|> 
|>  1. Gabriel Garcia Marquez -- ONE HUNDRED YEARS OF SOLITUDE
|> 
|> 	Many years later, as he faced the firing squad, Colonel
|> 	Aureliano Buendia was to remember that distant afternoon
|> 	when his father took him to discover ice.
|> 
[2-10 deleted-slv]

11. Herman Melville -- MOBY DICK:  Call me Ishmael.

-- 
@             Scott L. Vandenberg (vandenbe@cs.umass.edu)            @
@   University of Massachusetts-Amherst Computer Science Department  @
@ Lederle Graduate Research Center, Amherst, MA 01003  (413)545-3279 @
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:26044 soc.culture.turkish:14685 talk.politics.mideast:26073
From: terziogl@ee.rochester.edu (Esin Terzioglu)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,soc.culture.turkish,talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: hanif
Date: 22 Jan 93 17:10:05 GMT
Organization: Univ of Rochester, College of Engineering and Applied Science

In article <1993Jan22.090218.24582@doug.cae.wisc.edu> yamen@cae.wisc.edu (Soner Yamen) writes:
>Bildigim kadariyla "hanif" cahiliye devrinde Hz. Ibrahim (as)'a
>tabii olup, putlari reddedenlere deniyor.
>
Evet! Cok dogru. Islamdan once Arabistan'da yasayan, tek tanriya inanan ve   
Hristiyan veya Musevi olmayan kimseler vardi. Bu kimseler "hanif" diye
bilinirler.

Saygilar,
E.T. 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: cjh@tinton.ccur.com (Christopher J. Henrich)
Subject: Re: Fan Fiction--Copyright Infringement? (LONG)
Organization: Concurrent Computer Corp., Tinton Falls, NJ
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1993 19:14:37 GMT

In article <1993Jan20.040655.12700@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> lew@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (lewis.h.mammel..jr) writes:
>In article <1993Jan19.134252.5397@grebyn.com>, fi@grebyn.com (Fiona Webster) writes:
>> And sometimes what might be thought of as fan fiction can contribute
>> a great deal.  Years ago, I happened to know, and have several long
>> conversations with, the fellow who wrote the script for "The Trouble
>> with Tribbles" (Star Trek: The Original Series).  ..............
>
>Ironically, 'Tribbles was a direct ripoff of Heinlein's
>"Flatcat Factorial" chapter in The_Rolling_Stones. ( Copyright 1952 )
>
>I believe this is known to many, but it doesn't seem to be widely
>acknowledged.  

The author of "Trouble with Tribbles" is David Gerrold.  He wrote
a book about the production of this episode.  In it he stated that,
when the process was far advanced (too far to back out easily),
he realized, or was told, that tribbles were very much like flat
cats.  He hadn't consciously intended to rip them off.  Heinlein
was informed about the situation and didn't mind in the least.

Regards,
Chris Henrich
From: crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Lauren L. Crawford)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: INDIAN (ENGLISH) LITERATURE
Date: 21 Jan 93 16:21:34 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania


Thank you for posting this!  Thank you!  Gracias!  Merci!  Namaste!  (OK,
I'm stretching it with that last one.)

I've been looking for something similar for ages.  


-- 
The trick of reason is to get the imagination to seize the actual world --
if only from time to time.     -- Annie Dillard, "An American Childhood"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lauren Crawford  //  crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: leo@cp.tn.tudelft.nl (Leo Breebaart)
Subject: Re: "Harlan Ellison's Watching" by Harlan Ellison
Reply-To: leo@cp.tn.tudelft.nl
Organization: Delft University of Technology
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 09:01:56 GMT

sbrock@csn.org (Steve Brock) writes:

> This book of reviews gets an unequivocal "fingers up." 

Seconded. I enjoyed it tremendously as well, and to my surprise I
actually found Harlan not *nearly* as aggressive and arrogant as I had
expected him to be, from what I had heard of him (I shouldn't be
surprised, I suppose). In fact, I simply just agreed with him most of
the time: I always knew "Gremlins" was a nasty, schizophrenic, sadistic
piece of junk, but Harlan makes the point so much better than I could
ever have done myself.

Anyway, I have a question for the Harlan experts out there: in the book,
Harlan mentions working on a major Hollywood movie screenplay, but he is
so embarrassed about what eventually became of it that he doesn't even
want to tell us the name of that movie. But of course I'm just dying
to know which movie he's talking about. Does anybody know?

-- 
Leo Breebaart  (leo @ cp.tn.tudelft.nl)
From: dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Paradise Lost
Date: 26 Jan 93 20:37:46 GMT
Article-I.D.: netcom.1993Jan26.203746.16247
Distribution: rec
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)

akiy@siva.cs.titech.ac.jp (Akiyama Jun):
>
>Before me is sitting the book/epic/poem "Paradise Lost" by the
>often-said-to-be-more-than-intimidating John Milton.  I wish to read it.
>...I was wondering if anyone out there had any pointers/tips...

My personal opinion is that you should read it twice.  First read it
fairly quickly, just for the 'story', as though it were a novel.  Then
I'd suggest reading Empson's "Milton's God" (your library can get it
for you), which is *not* an annotation of PL, but a collection of
excellent and thought-provoking essays about some of the questions
raised by the book.  With those two under your belt, reread the book
more carefully, and you'll get a lot out of it.

-----
Dani Zweig
dani@netcom.com

   'T is with our judgements as our watches, none
   Go alike, yet each believes his own
		--Alexander Pope
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,talk.politics.soviet
From: jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy)
Subject: Re: Robert Conquest's _The Great Terror_
Reply-To: jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
	<C1AL8J.KL@panix.com> <1993Jan25.002034.19768@husc3.harvard.edu>
Date: 24 Jan 93 22:00:19

There is a distinction to be made between the execution of someone
believed and convicted, perhaps wrongly of a crime, and the killing
of a 1 1/2 year old baby.  Every bit of restraint is valuable.

Even if you believe the execution was motivated by malice and the
person was innocent, the distinction is important.  The killing of the
baby was a signal for a greatly increased level of killings of
innocent people.
--
John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305
*
He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.
From: spp@zabriskie.berkeley.edu (Steve Pope)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Censorship
Date: 26 Jan 1993 21:34:28 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley -- ERL
NNTP-Posting-Host: zion.berkeley.edu

Legal Eagle Mike Godwin writes:

> Freedom of the press and freedom of speech have both improved
> significantly in this country in the last three decades.

I'm wondering, Mike, how you figure this is the
case.  I've witnessed the opposite.  There is the
Reagan/Bush led crackdown on pornography: including
seizing bookstores under RICO and seizure laws;
mail-order porno sting operations; censorship
of rock and rap music.  In the political realm,
immigration laws have been used to keep artists
out of the country who come from such subversive countries
as the Republic of Ireland.  Harassment and stings of political
organizations such as Earth First are nothing new 
but continue unabated.  Reporters continues to get
tossed in jail for contempt.  

Plus, although not governmental in nature, overeager
lawyers mounting civil actions against publishers
are on the rise (e.g. Uri Geller getting a restraining order 
against the Skeptical Enquirer).

In what context are things improving?

Steve
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: garrett@cs.rochester.edu (Bill Garrett)
Subject: Re: Why I signed off this list
Organization: University of Rochester
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 20:56:20 GMT

In article <C17yLu.Er@fc.hp.com> daq@fc.hp.com (Doug Quarnstrom) writes:
>Of course you have to make some effort to distinguish between 
>someone who is giving you valid criticism and someone who is merely
>a rude idiot, but the tone alone is not all that relevant to making this
>determination (for me).
>
>
>doug

I agree with just about everything you've written here.  The tone alone
is also not that important to me, I've come to expect a somewhat
condescending tone from many people on the Usenet (whether the tone
is warranted or not is another point).  My problem comes when the message
is wrapped up in insults not when the tone is bad.  I just handle insults
from people I don't personally know poorly.  I think that lots of people
also don't care to be insulted as a rite of passage on the net.

-- 
Bill Garrett			ARPA: garrett@cs.rochester.edu
University of Rochester		UUCP: {decvax,rutgers}!rochester!garrett
Rochester  NY  14627		VOX:  (716) 275-5605
From: yarnot@babbage.csus.edu (Jan Yarnot)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: For Thine is the kingdom
Date: 25 Jan 93 23:25:17 GMT
Article-I.D.: csusac.1993Jan25.232517.15729
Organization: Moi?

In article <d6n3qd#@rpi.edu> kasprj@rpi.edu writes:
> 
> All right, I tripped up a bit here. It isn't said at the end of the Lord's 
>Prayer. But I could have sworn that _somewhere_ in the Catholic Mass that I
>remember going to (not so long ago that it was in Latin), there occurs the 
>line: "For the kingdom, the power, and the glory are yours, now and forever".
>Now, I know that r.a.b is just swarming with ex-, lapsed and recovered 
>Catholics, but is there anyone in here who's actually been to a Mass lately
>who could tell me that I wasn't hallucinating that part, and where exactly
>it occurs? 
> 
Heck, I'm not one-a them, I still practice, on the theory that someday, I,
or they, will finally get it right.  Your memory is good, and it is right
at the end of the Lord's Prayer, the priest having said a few words, then
we all say that and "amen", which strikes me as being still *in* the LP,
try to pretend it isn't as we might.  (Jesuits, no doubt!)

There was a Father Koesler mystery, ObBooking, by William Keinzle, that
really truly gets an evil Monsignor what he deserves, (different thread).
MIND OVER MURDER, I believe.
> Then again, perhaps they did things differently in St. Mary's parish of 
>Coventry, CT... we always were rather isolated out there.
>------------------------------------------------------------------
>     __  Live from Capitaland, heart of the Empire State...
> ___/  | Jim Kasprzak, computer operator @ RPI, Troy, NY, USA
>/____ *| "And the men who hold high places must be the ones who start 
>     \_|      To mold a new reality -- closer to the heart."
>      ====  e-mail: kasprj@rpi.edu or kasprzak@mts.rpi.edu 


--
---Jan Yarnot, net.grandma.-- | When you go out into the world,
			      | watch out for traffic, hold hands,
                              | and stick together.
CSUS depends on my every word.|             --Robert Fulghum    
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,sci.philosophy.meta
From: Charlie.Creegan@launchpad.unc.edu (Charlie Creegan)
Subject: Re: Relative clauses (was: Re: About Truth...)
Organization: University of North Carolina Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 21:10:03 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.065037.46579@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> miner@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:
>In article <1993Jan21.121758.24967@eff.org>, mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin) writes:
>> In article <1993Jan20.204701.46577@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> miner@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:
>> 
>>>The point is that the non-restrictive type does not occur in the
>>>spoken language.  Simply listen to spoken English (not English being
>>>read aloud) and notice that you never hear (and hopefully cannot
>>>imagine producing) a sentence like your first example above.
>> 
>> I hear nonrestrictive clauses all the time. I'm startled to see someone
>> claim they don't exist in spoken English. 
>
>It's a blanket statement I've heard made numerous times by linguists,
>especially those who work on English.  To me it's always seemed right.
>I can't imagine saying to my wife:
>
>	Guess what?  Molly, who was planning to drop my course, got an
>	A.
>
>Certainly not with the pause intonation (for the comma) that I would
>give it if I were reading it.  However: if you hear them, you hear
>them.  Maybe the experts are wrong; it wouldn't be the first time.
>
>> It should be noted that spoken English and written English do influence
>> each other. It may be that the kinds of people I hear spontaneously
>> generating nonrestrictive clauses are primarily literary and law types--
>> the kinds of people who are more likely to allow their spoken language to
>> be shaped by what they read.
>
>I would suspect this to be the case; yet I am still waiting to hear
>one of these animals even from a bookish speaker.
>
>>>I suppose a speaker could
>>>purposely produce one, but it would sound quite strange.
>> 
>> Not to me.
>> 
>>>> Each of these sentences is entirely speakable,
>>>
>>>Yes--that isn't the point, as I hope I've made clear.  We can speak a
>>>declarative sentence backwards if we wish; and lots of other things;
>>>but in determining what people normally say we must listen.
>> 
>> By "speakable," I meant simply that I would not be surprised to run across
>> either sentence in spoken English.
>> 
>> I will concede, of course, that nonrestrictive clauses are uncommon in
>> spoken English.
>
>A compromise; I'll take it and run <:->.
>
>> --Mike
>> -- 
>> Mike Godwin,    |"I'm waiting for the one-man revolution
>> mnemonic@eff.org| The only one that's coming."
>> (617) 864-0665  |                           
>> EFF, Cambridge  |                   --Robert Frost 
>
>--Ken
> 
>miner@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu | Nobody can explain everything to everybody.
>opinions are my own      | G. K. Chesterton


--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,alt.censorship
From: jon@mitre.org (J. E. Shum)
Subject: Health of Free Speech in USA -- WAS: Re: Censorship
Originator: jon@cyclone
Organization: The Mitre Corporation
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 21:35:08 GMT


In article <1993Jan26.191036.24226@eff.org>, mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin) writes:
> Freedom of the press and freedom of speech have both improved
> significantly in this country in the last three decades.
> 
> --Mike

I recommend that you read _Free Speech for Me--But Not for Thee_ by
Nat Hentoff.  I think it will cause you to reconsider the above
statement.

Free Speech for Me--But Not for Thee:  how the American left and
right relentlessly censor each other

Nat Hentoff

ISBN 0-06-019006-X

Copyright 1992 by Common Sense, Inc.

-- 
<jon@mitre.org>|--24HR Libertarian Party News (900)454-2378 [$1.95 a minute]--
----------------------------------| Libertarian Party            (800)272-1776 
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