HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: russell@Apple.COM (Russell Williams)
Newsgroups: rec.photo
Subject: Re: photo-developing, specifically nudes
Date: 12 Aug 92 15:47:56 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

In article <1992Aug11.190609.26057@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk> jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin) writes:
>that transition?  I can't think of even *one* interesting nude photograph
>in colour...  since people come in all-over shades of pink and brown, the
>only visual contrasts you're ever going to get will be reproducible in
>monochrome.  [...] Redheads excepted too, but they've been done.

Why take pictures of plants in color? Leaves are all green and trunks are
all brown, except in fall, and that's been done :-).  

>And remember that ordinary colour prints will age much faster than your
>wife will - in 20 years they'll be pallid garbage - so if one motivation is
>to depict her for the future while she's at her prime, forget about doing
>it with colour negative film.

Properly stored color negatives should last 20+ years with little noticeable
degradation. It might be necessary to make new prints after 20 years. 
Slides will last 50+ years; Kodachromes possibly longer. Cibachrome prints
will last longer than most spouses. 

Either you like nudes in color or you don't. It's not something an
argument is likely to resolve. If you're interested in longevity, you have
to take more care in color material selection, but it is certainly
possible for color images to outlive their subjects.
-- 
Russell Williams
Not speaking for Apple Computer
Newsgroups: rec.photo
From: bu890@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Brian Segal)
Subject: Re: Flourencent light question
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 92 11:46:32 GMT


Hi:

Well, yes. there are various flourescent correction filters out there,
but reality is that the bulbs vary from type to type, and also they
need a certain warm-up time to achieve stability.

There is no good substitute for a filter set and a color meter, I am afraid,
if color accuracy is vitally important.
brian
####
Newsgroups: rec.photo
From: hamm@weejordy.physics.mun.ca (Craig Hamm)
Subject: Re: Rates for freelance photographer
Organization: Ocean Sciences Centre
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 15:32:26 GMT

In article <v__n3sq.tomrice@netcom.com>, tomrice@netcom.com (Tom R. Rice) writes:
|> 
|> But a word of caution:  be really sure this is what you want to get
|> into.  Amateurs who just wanna make some bucks at what seems to be a
|> fun racket are not only in for a big surprise, but also demean the 
|> profession.
|> 
|> trr  
|> -- 
|> "Start off every day with a smile and get it over with."  --W.C.Fields
|> Tom R. Rice   WB6BYH                   Holler Observatory - 
|> tomrice@netcom.com                     Longitude:  121 d  30 m  20 s W 
|> CIS: 71160,1122                        Latitude:    37 d  25 m  10 s N 

	OK, I'll bite.  How does it demean the profession if I'm *good*
	and someone is willing to pay me for my product.  I know what the
	rates are around here for framing, printing/enlarging etc, and I
	can supply, in SOME cases, an equal product to that of a pro, for
	less.  So sue me.  

	Now, I would TOTALLY agree that I personally would never do a 
	wedding shoot, or similar, but selling landscapes, and doing
	portraiture, I should be allowed to compete with the pros.  If
	I happen to suck, I will stop getting money, and I'd drop out
	of the market.  It seems to sound like you just don't like being
	undercut by competent people, but maybe I misread you (?).  

	The other side of the coin is that if the purchaser has a choice
	between the 'scum undercutting amatuer' and the pro, and the work
	is comparable, shouldn't they have the final word as to who
	is demeaning to the profession, or at least who's going to get
	their money?

	CH		: )

-- 
  
    Craig Hamm, 		From 'Viz', Victor Pratt, the stupid twat
    Memorial University	        Biker: "My bike's got a flat, Vic"
    DoD #1500,           	Vic:   "Really? Whereabouts is it living?"
    '81 Maxim 650 
    ----

Newsgroups: rec.photo
From: chucksi@stc.comm.mot.com (Charlie)
Subject: 300 mm/f2.8 - Which is the BEST for the ELAN?
Organization: none
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 13:56:53 GMT


Subject line says it all - I need some help. Who makes this lens for the ELAN?
I know Sigma does, does anyone else? What's the general quality of third party
lenses of this size (and expense). I was appalled at the price difference 
between the Canon ($2700) and Sigma (~$2000) ----


				Chuck
-- 
Chuck Siu		"Oh, I can be suave. But I bet you meet a lot of suave 
chucksi@comm.mot.com	 guys. And that wouldn't make me any different from all
			 those other guys. Have you ever met any crude guys?"
			 -Robert Redford to Lena Olin    "Havana"
Newsgroups: rec.photo
From: jgong@.com (John Gong)
Subject: Re: F4s, SB-24, what gives?
Reply-To: jgong@oracle.UUCP (John Gong)
Organization: Oracle Internet Staff
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 18:21:48 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <1992Aug17.161712.8184@clark.edu> gsnow@clark.edu (Gary Snow) writes:
>In article <bd8magh.hchong@netcom.com> hchong@netcom.com (Hoi Chong) writes:
>>
>>Do we have to live with "front person too white while back person 2 feet back
>>too dark" without going to ceiling bounce (not available)? 
>>
>>What setting should I set my camera at?  M?  Aperture priority?  Shutter
>>priority?  Program?
>>
>>This is for a indoor party, ceiling sometimes not available deal.  Please
>>give your experience with F4s/SB-24.  Thanks in advance.  
>
>Well, I don't know much about the F4s/SB-24 combo (being a Cannon and Minolta
>freak), but it would seem that all you need to do it set a slower shutter
>speed to let more of the natural ambient light into the picture.  If your
>
>Gary


Excellent suggestion.  In fact the new Nikons allow you to do so easily.
Use the SB-24 in fillflash mode, and I think the F4 will  calculate the
rest.  I've been doing the same with a 6006 and the builtin flash.  Just
set it to fillflash mode and matrix metering. Presto. Great indoor party
photos. (Still gotta watch out for redeye with the builtin flash, though.)


           John
From: bc@Apple.COM (bill coderre)
Newsgroups: rec.photo
Subject: Re: Ilford XP1/2
Date: 21 Aug 92 21:00:15 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc, Cupertino, CA

william c ray:
|Ok, so XP1 & 2 have really fine printing grain, that's understandable
|considering the dye-cloud structure of the negative image.  Now how does
|this affect the edge-sharpness & definition?  Do we loose sharp edges
|since the dye clouds are relatively uncontrolable?  

Yes, you lose a little, but not a whole lot. If you are picky, you
will have to try it to see. It's different than either b/w or color.

|Also, what does the
|tonal response curve look like?  Everyone seems to claim that shooting it
|from 4 stops under to 4 stops over is ok.  Is the density curve really
|flat throughout that entire range?  

The density curve is never really flat, but it's OK. Nothing too
surprising.

|What sort of contrast am I looking
|at?  Will I be able to print on 2-3, or am I going to have to step up
|to 4 or 5 to get max-black and clean whites on the same sheet?

Note that the negatives are not "grey" and therefore might affect
polycontrast papers strangely. I didn't have too much trouble with the
paper combinations I always used. The resulting prints did not reek of
"different film." I did find that at higher ratings, overall contrast
did go down. It was kindof like I had run TriX at 1600 and then
push-processed /just that one frame./

I don't think that XP1 or equivalent is going to replace all your b/w
films. It's great, however, when EVERYTHING is beyond your control and
you can't predict what's going to happen, because pretty much any
exposure produces a printable negative.

If you are Ansel Junior, or Mister No Grain Ever, or Mister Studio,
stick to something else. If you are Mister Professional, you probably
don't need a trick like XP1 in your bag that often. But if you're
Mister Newshound or Mister Roll a Year, you might find it convenient
and helpful to have a roll hanging around for Just Such an Emergency.

mr HEINOUS
currently using only disposable cameras. they're grrrreat!
From: gerry@dvorak.amd.com (Gerard McKee)
Newsgroups: rec.photo
Subject: Recommended Slide Film for Portraits
Date: 14 Aug 92 20:17:18 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.; Austin, Texas


RECOMMENDATIONS FOR COLOR SLIDE FILM FOR PORTRAITS?

Could somebody recommend a color slide film for portraits that renders skintones well.
I would like a film that does skin color as good as Vericolor III print film.

I have tried Kodachrome 25 and gotten pretty good results but my last roll had scratches
on some of the slides from Kodalux in Dallas. I am not going to use Kodachrome anymore
because of the poor Quality Control and will stick with an E-6 film.

I have tried FUJI Velvia, but it makes skin look very red. Any minor blemish, like acne,
becomes a red blotch. The model ends up looking all flushed.

How about Fujichrome 100?

Gerry McKee
gerry@wopner.amd.com
From: kjm@cnmss.tredydev.unisys.com (Ken J. McFadden)
Newsgroups: rec.photo
Subject: Re: 8 exposure rolls, police, large format, zone system, hat hair
Date: 19 Aug 92 15:19:26 GMT
Organization: Unisys Corporation, Tredyffrin

In article <l92cakINNaae@news.bbn.com> koolish@BBN.COM (Richard M. Koolish) writes:
>
>My local Kodak dealer had some 8 exposure rolls of Ektacolor GPF-160
>Professional film.  Can the 4, 2, and 1 exposure rolls of 35mm film
>be far behind?  :-)

I saw a blurb about these 8 exposure rolls - they are primarily intended for
police officiers that might only shoot a handful of exposures at the scene of
a crime and don't want to wait for the next crime before getting the roll
developed.

Actually, 1 exposure rolls may make some of the fans of large format and the
zone system jealous.  Using the single exposure rolls would be more convenient
than those nasty large format film holders with the ability to push or pull
process individual frames.  And you have the added benefit that 35mm doesn't
promote hat hair.  8^)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ken McFadden        kjm@cnmss.tredydev.unisys.com
Unisys Corporation  kjm@cnmsa.tredydev.unisys.com
P.O. Box 203        work: (215) 648-3742
Paoli, PA 19301     home: (215) 675-0382
From: jay@metran.UUCP (Jay Ts)
Newsgroups: rec.photo
Subject: Re: Nikon FG (? info wanted)
Date: 20 Aug 92 06:06:02 GMT
Organization: Metran Technology, Tampa, Florida

sgccpgs@citec.oz.au (Paul Salanitri) writes:
: Does anyone know about this camera, I'm thinking of buying a 2nd hand
: one (possibly 10 years old)
: I must have a really accurate meter.

The meter in mine is accurate, but unfortunately, the display only reads
to the nearest 1/2 stop, and it is confusing to use in manual mode.  Want
to buy mine?  No?

Jay Ts
From: monson@hobo.ECE.ORST.EDU (Ty Monson)
Newsgroups: rec.photo
Subject: Re: media permanence (was Re: photo-developing, specifically nudes)
Date: 18 Aug 92 18:03:46 GMT
Organization: ECE Dept.,OSU,Corvallis

In article <1992Aug14.154136.29761@clark.edu> gsnow@clark.edu (Gary Snow) writes:
>In article <1992Aug13.215935.28028@cello.hpl.hp.com> jacobson@cello.hpl.hp.com (David Jacobson) writes:
>>
>>Jack Champin addresses digital media problems as though the problem
>>were only a materials problem.  (How long will tapes last?)  A much
>>more serious problem is obsolesence.  Ever tried to find someplace
>>that will read an 800 bpi tape, or a Hollerith (IBM) card?  How about
>>an 8 inch floppy disk?  How about punched paper tape?  Don't even
>>think about those little casettes that used to go in Hewlett-Packard
>>2645 terminals.  Going beyond digital, What about music on one of
>>those 3M cartiridges?  Or even an 8-track cartridge.  78 RPM records?
>
>Actually, thats one thing great about digital media. If a new format comes
>out, all you have to do is copy your old stuff to the new format (with NO
      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>loss in quality, every digital image is just as good as the original, no
>matter how many copies are made from it), and you are all set.
>Gary Snow
>uunet!clark!gsnow  or  gsnow@clark.edu

Of course, the fine B&W prints originally being discussed can sit
indefinitely, unattended, without need for investment in new equipment,
and still be ready for immediate viewing anytime in the future.

And prints are useful to anyone with eyes, not just people with fancy
high-tech equipment.
From: enenkel@cs.toronto.edu (Robert Frederick Enenkel)
Newsgroups: rec.photo
Subject: cine cameras & obsolescence
Date: 13 Aug 92 02:33:37 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto

I have an Regular-8mm spring-wound cine camera, and in its day it shot
a lot of film.  Unfortunately I don't know where to get film for it any
more, and even if I were to use 16mm film (it's the same, isn't it?),
I wouldn't know where to get it processed (ie. developed and cut down
the middle).  

I'd like to buy a used Super-8mm or 16mm cine camera and projector to
replace it.  I think film and processing is still available for these
formats (am I right?).  What I'd like to know is, how long can I expect
it to remain available?  If Super-8 is on the way out, should I buy 16mm
in the hope that it will remain available longer?  Thanks for any help.

P.S.  Please don't suggest I get a video camera.  I *like* film.

Robert Enenkel
From: fiddler@concertina.Eng.Sun.COM (steve hix)
Newsgroups: rec.photo
Subject: Re: NIKON SLR midroll rewind
Date: 12 Aug 92 18:19:44 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: concertina

In article <16840E289.SETTLE@LSTC2VM.stortek.com> SETTLE@LSTC2VM.stortek.com (Jeff Settle) writes:
> 
>Why do we go through all of this giberish. If you are interested
>enough in photography to be using two kinds of film, just get a second
>body.

Well, some people who would like to be using more than one type of
film might not be able to afford a second body (at least for a while).
(Harking back to school days...)

Some people have actually encountered the elusive dead camera body.
Resurrecting one takes time and money (if only for to replace the
batteries that died.)

Some of us probably wear belt and suspenders.  :}

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of making many books there is no end...  |  What's wrong with chasing 
                       -- Eccl. 12:12    |  nebulae till 3 am?  |-(
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: andyc@hplsla.hp.com (Andy Cassino)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 16:49:44 GMT
Subject: Re: Cibachrome low contrast paper vs normal
Organization: HP Lake Stevens, WA
Newsgroups: rec.photo

luong@naxos.inria.fr (Quang-Tuan Luong) writes:
| 
| A friend of mine took some printing lessons and his professor told
| him that everyone first uses the normal (high contrast) cibachrome
| paper first, and then, as they get more experienced, shifts to the
| new low-contrast one. Has anyone here compared the performance of
| the two papers ? How good is the low contrast one ?
| 

Yes. I think it is excellent stuff. I still use regular Ilfochrome though.
It's like having two contrast grades of black and white paper available, one
grade does not do everything.

I disagree with your prof's generalization. I know excellent printers that
mask everything and have yet to even try the low contrast stuff. 

    %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
    % Andy Cassino                                       %
    % Hewlett-Packard - Lake Stevens Instrument Division %
    %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Newsgroups: rec.photo
From: rslugg@med.unc.edu (Robert Slugg)
Subject: Re: Rates for freelance photographer
Organization: UNC-CH School of Medicine
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 03:17:34 GMT

I think two types of photography were being discussed.  For "art"
photography where one shoots the pictures, prints them, and then sells
them as a finished product, then anyone can do it.  For contracted
photography, it is a different story.  First, you will need samples of
your work in a portfolio.  For a wedding, an odd collection of pictures
from lots of weddings won't do.  Anyone can get a few good pictures at any
wedding.  They will want to see a proof book from an entire wedding start
to finish.  They will also want references.  It may sound simple but it
isn't.  Since you are bound by a contract, you have to be able to deliver
despite unforseen conditions, and they will occur at every wedding,
guaranteed.  Remember, if you screw up, you are out at a minimum film
and/or processing costs.  If you are new don't expect to see much money up
front.  People also won't sign contracts unless there is a clause where
they get all their money back at a minimum.  I am currently expanding into
the enviromental family portrait field, and it is tough and slow going.
Right now I am basically covering costs and generating a portfolio.
Anyone who thinks this is easy money has never looked at the start-up
costs.  We aren't talking vacation pictures anymore, although showing
excellent vacation pictures and mentioning you do other types of
photography doesn't hurt.  Its no coincidence that my seminars include
some damn nice pictures that have nothing to do with neuroscience.  Just
because you took a few nice wedding or swimsuit pictures doesn't mean the
Kennedy's or Sports Illustrated are going to call you the next day.  Get
ready to work for love and cost first.  Some day you might also look back
fondly to the good old days when your ass wasn't on the line everytime you
clicked the shutter.

Bob
.
From: serge@mais.hydro.qc.ca (Serge Oligny)
Newsgroups: rec.photo
Subject: Re: B&W on a Colour Enlarger
Date: 20 Aug 92 14:01:04 GMT
Article-I.D.: tdsb-s.serge.714319264
Organization: Hydro-Quebec, Montreal, Canada

gordon@meiko.com (Gordon Henderson) writes:

>I have been making B&W prints for some time now on variable-contrast paper
>with an enlarger with a filter tray for the contrast gels. The problem is that
>this setup is 120 miles away, and I'd like to do some enlargments this week
>but I can't get to my usual machine for another 2 weeks. However, I've got
>access to a colour enlarger with a dichromat head. Can I use this for B&W
>prints?

>(I know I could do it on fixed grade paper with no problems, but I have a
>stock of variable-contrast paper, and I'd like to not have to buy
>some graded paper if possible)

>Thanks in advance.


I am doing just that with Oriantal RC/VC paper.  The info. sheet in the box
include the combinations of dichro. filter values to reach each paper grade
(by 1/2 grade increment).  If I remember well, they distinguish between two
families of dichroic heads: a) Durst and a few others and b) Omega/Beseler 
and a few others.  Looks to me like a difference between European standards
and American standards as far as filtering values are concerned.

Remember that most VC paper will behave as grade 2 when no filtering is used.
Increasing Yellow filtration will smooth the paper response (toward grade 0)
and Magenta filtration will harden it (toward grade 5).  The 2 extreme grade
are attained with approx. 200cc unit of filtration (grade 0 and 5 that is).


Serge Oligny


--
______________________________________________________________________________
                                      This is a personal opinion that have
serge @mais.hydro.qc.ca               nothing to do with my employer.
______________________________________________________________________________
From: duane@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (duane.galensky)
Newsgroups: rec.photo
Subject: Re: SB-24 Speedlight
Date: 13 Aug 92 17:57:11 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Aug12.234058.27062@cello.hpl.hp.com> jacobson@cello.hpl.hp.com (David Jacobson) writes:
>
>You can also select "auto" mode.  This is useful for firing a
>pre-flash to see if you are close enough, especially when you are
>using bounce flash or a diffuser, since the LCD bar chart on the back
>is not applicable then (it doesn't even light up if the head is tipped
>up).  (Sorry, there is no way to tell if your are too close.)

great suggestion!  thanks!

duane
Newsgroups: rec.photo
From: rspeirs@javelin.sim.es.com (Ron Speirs)
Subject: Re: Does anyone have any experience with Ilford XP1?
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corporation
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 17:42:54 GMT

In article <fred-mckenzie-110892115559@128.159.169.79> fred-mckenzie@ksc.nasa.gov (Fred McKenzie) writes:
>In article <1992Aug11.125721.5680@cis.ohio-state.edu>,
>ray@anaconda.cis.ohio-state.edu (william c ray) wrote:
>>   Anyone have any comments on XP1?  I'm considering buying a ton of it
>> since Freestyle has it for really cheap.  How's the edge sharpness?
>> (I realize that the grain in printing ought to be next to non-existant)
>
>The local camera shop has the XP2 in stock.  They indicated that there was
>some kind of problem with the XP1, which I know nothing about.  It may have
>something to do with processing it in the C41 chemicals, and printing on
>color paper.  I recall something about an irregular color cast in the
>finished prints.
>
Of course.  Even though XP1/XP2 is processed in C41, it yields a black-and
-white negative which should be printed on black-and-white paper.  You can
get a quick and dirty proof on color paper, but you won't see the advantages
of the film that way.

>If a splotchy color cast in the negatives developed in C41 is the only
>problem, development in B&W chemicals, and printing on B&W paper, may make
>it a good deal.
>
I would NOT recommend developing XP1/XP2 in B&W chemicals.  It is really a
"color" film, that is, the silver in the film is there only to facilitate
formation of visible dyes during the color developer; except that those
dyes are black.  There is probably less silver in XP1/XP2 than ordinary
B&W film, and so contrast will be weak. You WILL get a negative with B&W 
developer, but the incomplete dye molecules left in the film wil degrade
the image.

You can do an experiment to visualize the situation:  Print a B&W negative
onto regular B&W paper.  Then print the same negative onto Color Negative
Paper (like Ektacolor Plus), and develop the print in B&W developer.  Be
sure to handle in total darkness - no safelight.  Use normal stop, fix and
wash.  Then compare the prints.  I think you'll see the difference.

Ron Speirs, Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp., Salt Lake City, Utah

Newsgroups: rec.photo
From: lazaro@garfield.cs.mun.ca (Lazaro Nunez)
Subject: Developing ORWO films
Organization: CS Dept., Memorial University of Newfoundland
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 13:56:51 GMT

I was wondering if somebody could help me.
I have two films from the former East Germany (brand name ORWO), and I've
taken them to all the local photo processors but none has the means
to develop them.
Does anybody know of a firm in Canada or the United States (preferably in 
Canada) where I could send the films for developing?
Any help would be highly appreciated.

Lazaro Nun~ez Figueiral
lazaro@garfield.cs.mun.ca