HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jjj@mits.mdata.fi (Joni Jarvenkyla)
Subject: Reading suggestion, was: Re: nirvana ?
Keywords: Nirvana
Organization: Microdata Oy, Helsinki, Finland
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 16:42:10 GMT

When now speaking of Buddhism, different meditation techniques etc I'd
like to give the following as suggested reading:

TRANSFORMATIONS OF CONSCIOUSNESS
Conventional and Contemplative Perspectives on Development

Ken Wilber, Jack Engler and Daniel P Brown

New Science Library, Shambhala, Boston & London, 1986

ISBN 0-87773-309-0 (pbk)
     0-87773-371-6
     0-394-74202-8 (Random House: pbk)
     0-394-55537-6 (Random House)

This book is really something on meditation and consciousness. It brings
together different views and goes deep into the subject. Really good.

(It might be useful to read Charles T Tart's 'Altered states of
Consciousness' for background, though, because ASoC covers more subjects
and gives a good basic perspective on what's-where.)

-- 
jjj@mits.mdata.fi     Thanks, Life; thanks, Death    And the other me:
jjj@niksula.hut.fi    for freeing me from self       Jenny L{rv{joki
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness
From: CCENS03@USLVM.USL.EDU
Subject: Re: : a couple of questions
Organization: University of Southwestern Louisiana
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 16:59:06 GMT

Opinion:  Castaneda's books are fiction, written in a common style that uses
teacher and student dialogue to communicate the author's ideas/concepts in a
way that can be easily understood, detailing them in such a specific manner
that the intent is as clear as possible.  These books are always written in a
way that could be (mis)interpreted as nonficton.  Stanislavski's actor training
texts are an example of a work in the same technique (not that I really expect
anyone here to be familiar with them, but it was the only example I could think
of offhand).
 
                                                  Ellen
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness
From: gordon@tramp.Colorado.EDU (GORDON ALLEN R)
Subject: Re: nirvana ?
Keywords: Nirvana
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 14:13:09 GMT

probst@fraser.sfu.ca (Scott Probst) writes:

>no quibbling, but i'm not sure that the bye-bye is to anything more than
>mistaken beliefs about the way things exist - that is, once your deluded
>ways of thought disappear (which i sincerely hope they do, right now!), things
>still tend to go on. to use a trivial example, probably the buddha would have
>a driving licence were he alive today - that is, you still have to deal
>with phenomena as they arise, temporary though they might be. so, you deal 
>with them, but in a non-deluded way, so you don't get yourself into trouble
>grasping on to them, etc.

>to sum up, were you to become enlightened, you would still perceive
>things, but not as 'real', in the way they appear real at the moment...
>the realisation of their non-inherent reality would be simultaneous with
>the perception of the things themselves.

>how's that sound?

It sounds real good.  But do you buy it?  The problem I have with such explana-
tions is that once we hear one, it either sounds good or not so good.  The
end result is that we tend to think that we 'know' something about the subjec-
cating the taste of a peach.  If what is communicated sounds 'bad' to the other
person, then that person would be less inclined to taste the peach.  If it 
sounds 'good' then the person would be 'looking' for the taste and possibly 
making comparisons.  Thus the only real way of communicating the experience of 
the peach is operationally, that is, by telling the person to taste the peach.

 
This apparent knowledge gets in the way.  Example:  we all know about communica-

-- 
Allen Gordon 		         *If the folly of but one of us was changed to*
Research Associate         	 *intelligence, and divided amongst a thousand*
gordon@tramp.colorado.edu   	 *toads, each would be more intelligent than  *
				 *Aristotle				      *
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness
From: jsuttor@netcom.com (Jeff Suttor)
Subject: Citation: The book of highs
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 17:28:07 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

     Author:  Rosenfeld, Edward.                                        
      Title:  The book of highs; 250 ways to alter consciousness without
                drugs.                                                  
                                                                        
  Published:  {New York} Quadrangle {1973}                              
Description:  1 v. (unpaged) illus. 28 cm.                              
                                                                        
 Subject(s):  Hallucinations and illusions.                             
              Consciousness.                                            
      Notes:  Includes bibliography.
From: zlsiida@fs1.mcc.ac.uk (dave budd)
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness
Subject: Re: nirvana ?
Keywords: Nirvana
Date: 29 Jul 92 12:53:31 GMT
Organization: Manchester Computing Centre
Originator: netnews@uts.mcc.ac.uk

In article <1992Jul29.013447.11405@sfu.ca> probst@fraser.sfu.ca (Scott Probst) writes:

>to sum up, were you to become enlightened, you would still perceive
>things, but not as 'real', in the way they appear real at the moment...
>the realisation of their non-inherent reality would be simultaneous with
>the perception of the things themselves.

>how's that sound?

Fine.  I think it's actually the Taoists who claim to be able to hop into 
and out of this reality more or less at will.

A quote from HSThompson in his sig.....hmmmmmmm

 
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
|  I don't take part in any sport that requires me to change clothes  |
|  Dave Budd, MCC, Oxford Rd, Manchester, England   (44)061-275-6033  |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness
From: CCENS03@USLVM.USL.EDU
Subject: Re: Tibetan Book of the Dead
Organization: University of Southwestern Louisiana
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 19:41:40 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.205644.110501@cs.cmu.edu>
dwp+@cs.cmu.edu (Doug Philips) writes:
 
>In article <zlsiida.1021@fs1.mcc.ac.uk>
>        zlsiida@fs1.mcc.ac.uk (dave budd) writes:
>+In article <1992Jul21.163546.229431@cs.cmu.edu>
>    dwp+@cs.cmu.edu (Doug Philips) writes:
>+>wouldn't be apropos to your experience.  Makes sense to me.
>+Essentially this claims a Tibetan gets a clear white light and others don't.
>+Yet others report that they do.  I'm reading other stuff on what to do when
>+one dies just in case!
>
>Then I misrepresented what Levine said.   He was not claiming that the white
>light was apropos only to Tibetas, but rather the various demons, their
>form, and meaning, etc.
>
>-Doug
 
My intent in bringing it up was not to say that the specific entities described
would be experienced in the forms described in the book, as I think Doug means
as well, but rather that it's a good general map one can use, although the form
the entities take will be different for every person, since every person's
experiences/psyche is different and perceives things in different ways.  "There
is nothing either good nor bad, but thinking makes it so."  (hope I got that
 right)  Like any work, we can take the parts that we find meaningful and use
them to the best of our ability.
 
                                           Ellen
From: probst@fraser.sfu.ca (Scott Probst)
Subject: Re: nirvana ?
Keywords: Nirvana
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 01:34:47 GMT

In article <zlsiida.1059@fs1.mcc.ac.uk> zlsiida@fs1.mcc.ac.uk (dave budd) writes:
>In article <1992Jul27.171437.15641@uwm.edu> glenne@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Neuromancer ) writes:
>
>this world is just illusion for a Buddhist.  Byebye to your physical form 
>doesn't necessarily mean byebye altogether.
>> 
>>Isn't passionately striving for love, happiness, and beauty
>>much better than non-existence?
>
>love---hate     happiness---misery     beauty---ugliness
>Striving for one end of a pair of opposites is to bring the other end into 
>existence as well.
>
>Any REAL buddhists out there want to quibble, expand, comment?

well, i don't know if i qualify as a real, independently existing buddhist,
but anyway: 

no quibbling, but i'm not sure that the bye-bye is to anything more than
mistaken beliefs about the way things exist - that is, once your deluded
ways of thought disappear (which i sincerely hope they do, right now!), things
still tend to go on. to use a trivial example, probably the buddha would have
a driving licence were he alive today - that is, you still have to deal
with phenomena as they arise, temporary though they might be. so, you deal 
with them, but in a non-deluded way, so you don't get yourself into trouble
grasping on to them, etc.

to sum up, were you to become enlightened, you would still perceive
things, but not as 'real', in the way they appear real at the moment...
the realisation of their non-inherent reality would be simultaneous with
the perception of the things themselves.

how's that sound?
-- 
Scott Probst: Brain and Behaviour Laboratory, Psychology dept, SFU
              Graduate Issues Officer, Simon Fraser Student Society.
e-mail: probst@fraser.sfu.ca - ph: (604) 291 3354/3181 - fax: (604) 291 5843
              "yes, well, and here we go again..."   Dr H.S. Thompson
From: pck@acsu.buffalo.edu (Philip C. Kilinskas)
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness
Subject: Re: Non-drug consciousness altering techniques...
Date: 28 Jul 92 17:11:58 GMT
Organization: UB

dwp+@cs.cmu.edu (Doug Philips) writes:

>From "Would the Buddha Wear a Walkman -- A Catalogue of Revolutionary Tools
>for Higher Consciousness" by Judith Hooper and Dick Teresi.

>They claim the book is out of print and hard to find.  But they talked
>with the author and got him to recall 10 techniques which they have
>provided.

Interesting that someone mentioned this book, as I just looked at it in my
local Waldenbooks store at a mall here in Buffalo.  Don't remember the price,
but it looked interesting.

>My question is:  Does anyone out there have this book?  If so, is it
>worth tracking down?

What I found interesting about the book was their mention of how good certain
currently illegal drugs are at altering consciousness, and then asks the 
question, "So how do you alter your consciousness while keeping your urine 
clean?"  as if to say, "Well, we know that a true psychoactive drug will
work a lot better than a strobe light or what have you, but since that's 
illegal, we've got to take what we can get."  

A lot of the consciousness altering methods mentioned in the book are quite
expensive, and in my opinion it would be hard to differentiate the legitimate
ones from ones that are just scams by people to take your money.

Phil
____________________________________________________________________________
pck@acsu.buffalo.edu /  "Our days are like grass..." - Psalms 103:51
Xref: sparky alt.consciousness:334 alt.paranormal:1966
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: a couple of questions
From: jtulli@eagle.wesleyan.edu
Date: 28 Jul 92 22:05:52 EDT
Organization: Wesleyan University

In article <1992Jul27.203416.1@husky1.stmarys.ca>, gen5006@husky1.stmarys.ca 
writes:
 
> 	Monroe also noted experiences in which he 'used' the body of someone
> else.  Maybe this is the type of thing that you are referring to.

no, that would be more a case of possession, i think.  i mean the same
consciousness in two simultaneous physical manifestations encountering itself. 
both people would presumably have different life experiences and only
experience one side of the encounter (at a time).  any ideas?
 
> Bill.

Jude.
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness
From: asuccop@milton.u.washington.edu (Annemarie Succop)
Subject: Re: Non-drug consciousness altering techniques...
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 06:13:08 GMT


	i know there's a similar book out by andrew weil (someone else?)
	out that may be out of print.  i remember reading it & being
	horrified that one of the methods was 'throwing up'.  ew.

	i get chronic migraines & have noticed that if i *didn't* feel
	like i had a spike thru my head & like throwing up, my migraines
	actually would be kinda pleasantly trippily consciousness-
	changing.  everything usually looks very 'bright' and 'important'
	& i tend to think interesting things (b/w trying to act like a normal
	human being that *doesn't* have half of her face falling off.)

	sometimes i get some neat visual persistences/hallucinations, too.

	annemarie, trying to look on the bright side of having had a headache
			18 or so of the last 20 days...
	asuccop@u.washington.edu

Newsgroups: alt.consciousness
From: dwp+@cs.cmu.edu (Doug Philips)
Subject: Re: Tibetan Book of the Dead
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 16:35:46 GMT
Organization: EIEI-U
Summary: something salient, shortly stated, sadly seldom satoric

In article <zlsiida.923@fs1.mcc.ac.uk> zlsiida@fs1.mcc.ac.uk (dave budd) writes:
+well I've read enough of the Bardo Thodol (TibBkDead) to know what to do if 
+it turns out to be true, but I don't expect it to.

Stephen Levine in "Who Dies?" talks briefly about TBD.  Basically he said
paraphrasing liberally, that unless you grew up with that culture, the TBD
wouldn't be apropos to your experience.  Makes sense to me.

-Doug
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness
From: jeffjc@cs.mcgill.ca (Jeffrey CHANCE)
Subject: Re: Meditation (was: TM's effect on populace)
Organization: SOCS - Mcgill University, Montreal, Canada
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 14:39:28 GMT

Doug Philips wrote [some stuff deleted]:
>In article <tertium.711838712@milton>
>	tertium@milton.u.washington.edu (l boyd) writes:
>>Steve Levine speaks eloquently of grasping after experience (the "perfect"
>>meditation session) as a form of spiritual greed.  And greed is any kid of
>>grasping, and it always creates suffering.
>
>That is why I find the distinction between expectation/greed and
>aspiration important.  (Others besides Levine talk about desiring the
>"perfect" meditation session).
>
>>My "objectives" (if you will) when I meditate are only to see my life more
>>clearly.  I would love to achieve liberation, and cannot do it if I am
>>constantly the victim of desires and motivations that I don't know about.

Here is a short essay on this topic, written by my spiritual teacher
Sri Chinmoy. 


Desire and Aspiration
---------------------

Desire is that which binds us. It wants to possess and be possessed.
When we desire, we cry for one hundred, two hundred, three hundred 
things. When we aspire, at that time we don't want to possess and we
don't want to be possessed. Inside us there is something which is
boundless, limitless, infinite. When we aspire, we want to enter
into that very thing within us which is boundless. We want only to
become part and parcel of Him who is infinite. So desire is something
that is going to bind us, whereas aspiration is something that throws
us consciously into the sea of Infinity. 

Aspiration and desire are two different things. We cannot satisfy our
desires. We can only change the object of our desires. Today I would
like another car and tomorrow I would like another house. If I am
frustrated, if I am not fulfilled in a particular desire, then 
tomorrow I will have some other desire. Desires are constantly being
changed. One moment we think of our aspiration and the next moment we
think of our desire. If we get an opportunity to fulfil ourselves
through desire, we don't hesitate. Again, when aspiration enters into
us, we try to fulfil ourselves through aspiration. One time we take
poison and the next time we take nectar. But we have to know that
poison will destroy us, whereas nectar will fulfil us. Let us
drink only the nectar of aspiration.

-----------------------------------

Jeff
--------------------------------------------------------------
|    Jeff Chance                       | That to which you   |
|    Dept. of Chemistry                | give your attention |
|    McGill University, Montreal       | becomes stronger in |
|    MAIL: jeffjc@binkley.cs.mcgill.ca | your life.          |
--------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.cd-rom
From: csc@rabbit.inesc.pt (Area do CSC)
Subject: Any info on CreativeLabs CD-ROM drive ??
Organization: INESC - Inst. Eng. Sistemas e Computadores, LISBOA. PORTUGAL.
Distribution: alt.cd-rom
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 18:56:20 GMT


 Does anyone have any info on the Creative Labs (the makers of the
 Sound Blaster card) CD-ROM drive ??

        - Compatibility, performance, reliability , etc

 In short: IS IT ANY GOOD ?? , can I go ahead and buy it??

 Here in Portugal, I can't seem to find that many brands of CD_DROM
drives. I Just saw the CreativeLabs drive in a shop and.... i'm
thinking of jumping into the BandWagon!

  Thanks in advance for ANY advice !! :-)
From: aa699@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Tony Thomas)
Newsgroups: alt.cd-rom
Subject: Re: Please repost source for simtel CD
Date: 27 Jul 92 17:22:56 GMT
Reply-To: aa699@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Tony Thomas)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)


In a previous article, system@coldbox.cojones.com (Bryan Lockwood) says:

>Awhile back, someone mentioned the availability of certain simtel MS-DOS
>archives on CD-ROM. Could that person (or anyone else) please re-post the
>info on how to get this CD?
>
>Thanks.
>
You can get it from Walnut Creek CD-ROM at 1-800-786-9907.  The price is
$24.95 plus  shipping. 

-- 
aa699@Cleveland.Freenet.EDU/GEnie=A.THOMAS16/Compuserve:71541,3456
TONY THOMAS - SIGop - Audio Arts SIG - Cleveland FreeNet
"True riches is not what you have - It's the kind of person you are"
Newsgroups: alt.cd-rom
From: ACCNEWS@HOFSTRA.BITNET
Subject: Attaching a Hitachi 1502 to a IBM PCXT
Reply-To: ACCNEWS@HOFSTRA.bitnet
Organization: FUNET-NGW
Distribution: alt
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 22:48:00 GMT

From: libmggpm@hofstra.bitnet
Subject: Attaching a Hitachi 1502 to a IBM PCXT

Has anyone ever connected a Hitachi model 1502 to a IBM PC xt (with no
hard drives).  Any help is greatly appreciated
                                           Gary Moore
                                                libmggpm@hofstra - Bitnet
                                                                libmggpm@vaxa.ho
fstra.edu - Internet

ps. the key here is that it is an OCLC M300 (an IBM xt with an OCLC
controller card added to it.  I know the address for the Hitachi driver in
config.sys has to be changed to 200 and I've done this successfully with a
Hitachi 1503s, but I'm having problems with the Hitachi 1502.
Newsgroups: alt.cd-rom
From: LANA@ITOCSIVM.BITNET (maurizio lana)
Subject: software CDROMs for Mac
Reply-To: maurizio lana <LANA@ITOCSIVM.bitnet>
Organization: FUNET-NGW
Distribution: alt
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 18:14:14 GMT

Educorp sells a Quantum Leap CDROM (CD7) containing miscellaneous software for
Macintosh at about 89 dollars. As I bought the Simtel CDROM from Bob Bruce at a
bout 25 dollars, I wonder if it's possible to buy CDROMs for Mac containing pub
lic domain software (like that of sumex-aim, for example). Any ideas?
Please cc: your messages to my address: as I'm going away from my city for holi
days I'll set cdrom-l in suspended animation with nomail...!
Thanks.
Maurizio

MAURIZIO LANA | E-MAIL: LANA@ITOCSIVM.BITNET  | phone & fax 39-11-837262
CISI - Universita' di Torino - V. S. Ottavio 20 - 10124 Torino Italy
Newsgroups: alt.cd-rom
From: msante@ptdca0.intel.com (Mark Santesson)
Subject: Info needed: where is FAQ
Originator: msante@ptdca0
Organization: Portland Technology Development, Intel Corp., Aloha, OR
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 18:26:26 GMT

Is there a list of all the software available for CD-ROMs?  Or at least
a fairly complete list?  Also, where is the FAQ for this newsgroup, I've heard
references to it, but I haven't seen it posted lately...

thanks
-- 
==============================================================================
Mark Santesson               Portland Technology Development, Intel Corp.
msante@ptdca0.intel.com      (503) 642-8355       I don't speak for intel
Newsgroups: alt.cd-rom
From: ts@uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi)
Subject: Re: Garbo CD ROM for Mac: HELP!
Organization: University of Vaasa, Finland
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 18:19:16 GMT

In article <1388@eagle.ukc.ac.uk> dl1@ukc.ac.uk (Duncan Langford) writes:
>I've already had a number of replies to my original posting, some from
>fellow Garbo suffers, one or two from Walnut Creek supporters.
>
>I guess my frustration at having to spend time working out /how/ to pull
>stuff from the CD did rather colour my reaction. Walnut Creek don't seem
>to be the rip-off artists I'd thought, but just PC people after a slice of
>the Mac market without Mac know-how.

The gentle, long-suffering garbo users will have to consider the
underlying nature of the garbo archives.  Yes, indeed, we are
basically a PC site, and the mac material is a kind of a bonus, if
anything.  We concentrate on MsDos & Windows PD and shareware
material, and for example I concentrate on MsDos and do not
personally support our Mac side in any way.  (In fact I've never
even used a Mac).  However, there is a
garbo.uwasa.fi:/mac/HOW.TO.USE.THE.FILES by my fellow moderator
Harri Valkama hv@uwasa.fi at garbo which can be downloaded my FTP or
mail server in the usual manner.  While I will decline to answer any
mac specific questions sent to me, the following applies:

"If you do not know how to go about getting this material, users are
welcome to email me for the prerecorded garbo.uwasa.fi instructions
(long, circa 29Kb).  If you do not receive my reply within five
days, please ask your own site's system manager to construct a
returnable mail path for you". 

   All the best, Timo

..................................................................
Prof. Timo Salmi
Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous FTP archives 128.214.87.1
Faculty of Accounting & Industrial Management; University of Vaasa
Internet: ts@uwasa.fi Bitnet: salmi@finfun   ; SF-65101, Finland
Organization: Central Michigan University
Date: Thursday, 23 Jul 1992 08:32:56 EDT
From: <34MD4AK@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
Newsgroups: alt.cd-rom
Subject: Chinon CD-ROM is it any good

I have been looking at CD-ROM drives and the Chinon looks to be
the best for the price. Does anyone know anything bad about them?


RICK LAFAY             RLAFAY ON BIX             ACIS COMPUTERS
(517) 773-6490                                   (616) 587-8827
MT. PLEASANT MICH                                MANCELONA, MICH
From: weihmayer@gte.com (Robert Weihmayer)
Newsgroups: alt.cd-rom
Subject: NEC CDR,AU/X and PhotoCD
Date: 30 Jul 92 02:14:06 GMT
Followup-To: alt.cd-rom

Does anyone know about how well (or not at all!) the new NEC
CDR-74 or 84 handle AUX 3.0 installation from CD-ROM. SOmeone
on the net said that they cannot handle AUX at all.

NEC states that these drives will handle single session photo
CD. I have a photoCD and cannot mount it at all on my CDR-74.
What is the relevance of the single vs multi session capability?

weihmayer@gte.com
From: jack@admin.mport.COM (Jack Craig)
Newsgroups: alt.cd-rom
Subject: Re: Adaptec 1542B and Pioneer 6-disc CD-ROM changer ?
Date: 30 Jul 92 18:46:36 GMT
Distribution: alt
Organization: Microport Inc., Scotts Valley, CA 95066 US of A

otto@tukki.jyu.fi (Otto J. Makela) writes:

>Does anyone have experience with using Pioneer 6-disc CD-ROM changers
>with Adaptec 1542B cards ?  I have a 386-based CD-ROM server which will
Yes, i have used the pioneers with unix, but not dos. while i have
used 2 6 disk units, we have a customer with 4 - 5 units on one bus.
i havent the foggiest what your chances are on dos.

if you have unix questions, i'll be happy to respond.

jack...
=============================================================================
 Jack Craig      Microport SVR4      408-438-UNIX        uunet!mport.com!jack   
=============================================================================