HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: JDW5139@TAMXRD.TAMU.EDU
Subject:      Re: MFN under Clinton Administration
Reply-To: JDW5139@TAMXRD.TAMU.EDU
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 00:02:42 GMT
Comments: To: china-nt@uga.cc.uga.edu

>From:         & Wang <joe@ASTRO.AS.UTEXAS.EDU>
>Subject:      MFN under Clinton Administration

>The biggest question that will determine what happens in June is that
>of Clinton's own views.  Unfortunately, Clinton has no foreign policy
>record so that it is impossible to see what he actually thinks on the
>matter.  It is possible that he brought up the issue of MFN only to
>challenge Bush's foreign record, and that he will propose mild
>sanctions.  After all, Reagan criticized Carter's recognition of the
>PRC in the 1980 elections.  On the other hand, it's also possible that
>he is interested in "punishing" China and will try to impose very
>harsh sanctions.
>
>Right now, I'm trying to remain optimistic, but I also am quite
>worried.

Your analysis is right. In view of the uncertainty, we should, perhaps,
take offensive measures. At an appropriate time, the Chinese organizations
may want to communicate their view points to the Clinton administration.
In doing so, we may influence President Clinton's China policy or at least
let him be aware of our concerns. After all, the CSS in the States are
among the best China experts.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: C0370@UNIVSCVM.BITNET
Subject: (none)
Reply-To: C0370@UNIVSCVM.BITNET
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 16:30:01 GMT
Comments:     Originally-From: C0370@UNIVSCVM

>......
>>"One of the most important elements of democracy is not to interfere
>>others, not to bring troubles to others," Dai said.
>......
>MS.QING DAI used to (still now?) critisize harshly Director Zhang Yimou of his
>moives. She accused him of trading dirts of China for applause of foreigners.
>Did she interfere Mr.Zhang?

To me, they are quite different issues. 1) Ms. Dai criticized (not accused)
Mr. Zhang in public media. 2) Her critique did not jeopardize Mr. Zhang's
career. In fact, Mr. Zhang has never been arrested because of Ms. Dai's
comments. He was, and still is a successful director. Contrarily, Mr. Shen's
activity did put those people who he interviewed during his political trip
in China in jeopardy.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china,soc.culture.china
From: x0y3510@tamuts.tamu.edu (Xuejun Yang)
Subject: Re: Chinese, Are You Jealous?
Organization: ~/lib/organization
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 14:23:47 GMT

In article <0eyOs9K00Uzx84N=BV@andrew.cmu.edu> Rikiya Asano <ra01+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>Mr. Xiao,
>
>             Are you crazy? Who are the "slaves" that you are referring
>to? Are you calling my friends "slaves"? Shame on you, if this is true.
>You sound like a redneck up there in Indiana. Come back down to earth!

I think Mr. Li is one of those people with very low self-esteem and
unsure of one's position in other people's minds. He is an extreme
example of the saying " The grass is always greener on the other side
of the fence" phenomenon. He mixed up formality with reality. I
just hope he could grow up and as you correctly said come back down
to earth.


Xref: sparky talk.politics.china:2553 soc.culture.china:29899
From: lix@thames.bu.edu (Xiaowen Li)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china,soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Patriotism is the Opium of the Mass (was Re: Chinese, Are You Jealous)
Date: 8 Nov 92 02:12:53 GMT
Followup-To: talk.politics.china
Organization: Boston University

Well, I have got a lot of good points recently.

Xiaolin: China has not got a democracy system, shame on you, old Chinese!
Eddie: We have to practice and imrove it graduately, we have some non-zero
       starting point.
Ya-Gui: Patriotism is the opium of the mass.

Can't help adding mine in:

Lix: Green card is the best cure.

Any more?
-- 
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: Qingsong Zhang <qsz2u@FARADAY.CLAS.VIRGINIA.EDU>
Subject:      Forward upon request:  Reception for Senator Gorton
Reply-To: Qingsong Zhang <qsz2u@FARADAY.CLAS.VIRGINIA.EDU>
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 22:35:01 GMT
Comments: To: china-nt@uga.cc.uga.edu

Upon the request of Mr. Dong, I forward the following message
to China-net.

---------------------------------------------------------------

From: Liqun Dong <dlq@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Reception for S1216 at Seattle


              The Celebrating Reception for Slade Gordon
                      at Seattle, Washington

    To thank U.S. senator Slade Gordon from Washington state, the
principal initiator of the Chinese Students Protection Act of 1992
and other U.S. congressmen and congresswomen from Washington who
have supported the said Act, promote timely implementation of the
Act and provide further impetus to the unity of the Chinese commuity,
Chinese groups in the Seattle area have proposed to hold a
celebrating reception for Chinese affairs legistration on Nov., 24,
1992.

    The reception is co-sponsored by local Chinese organizations,
IFCSS, and National Committee of Chinese Student Affair. A task force
(TFCR) has been set up to prepare for the occasion.

    Coordinators of TFCR:
         Liqun Dong   UW, council memeber of 4th IFCSS
         Ping Luo     Health care analyst, former council member of IFCSS
         Gordon Xu    Software Engineer

    The reception is part of hte nation-wide lobby campaign for the
Chinese Students Protection Act and is designed to promote the common
interest of all beneficiaries throughout the United States. Since the
base of Chinese students is rather small in the Seattle area, it would
be difficult to rely exclusively on local beneficiary donations to
cover the necessary expenses. TFCR welcomes donatins from interested
individuals and organizations across teh country. If you are willing to
lend a hand, please write your check to the order of TFCR and mail it to:

                P.O. Box 85021
                Seattle, WA 98145



                        Task Force for the Celebrating Reception
                        for Chinese Affair Legistration at Seattle
From: jwh3@po.CWRU.Edu (Junwei W. Hou)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
Subject: re: the congratulation letter to Clinton
Date: 5 Nov 1992 23:49:16 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: jwh3@po.CWRU.Edu (Junwei W. Hou)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, chen%molly@SDSC.EDU ("") says:

>Dear Mr. Dawei Zhou:
>
>	You are very quick at seizing the opportunity. However, there is
>a difference between your hero Dr. Zhao Haiqing and (even:-) Bush. Bush
>is there now to ensure a smooth transition of the Administration and to
>"finish some unfinished business". Do you know how many MINUTES (right,
>not HOURS) your hero ZHQ spent in the HQ in the MONTH that was supposed
>to be a transition period? Also, I can guarantee you that Bush will not
>start a "new business" and fight with Clinton for whatever Clinton's
>Administration may accomplish.
>
>>
>Shizhong Chen
>

     A very, very good point indeed.  

     It's so astonishingly true that a near-insane ego, an "ex-"
title, plus liar-style "competence" could make a "hero" in not-
quite-so-few CSS's minds where the greatness of this nation seems
shy away from the shameless words and deeds of the "hero". 
 
     Since when has the word "jerk" acquired a meaning of "hero"?

     Or perhaps one could find this extra meaning somewhere in a
Chinese-Biochemistry Dictionary.


                              
                                   Junwei
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: ldong@hila.hut.fi (Liyun Dong)
Subject: Re:      Names and addresses, Human Rights in China
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 07:43:17 GMT

In article <BxJ2pA.6n0@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> Yuan M Jiang <ymj1@CUNIXB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU> writes:
>Human Rights in China (HRiC) is a non-political organization with the purpose
>of promoting human rights in China according to the United Nation
>Declaration of Human Rights.  It has its headquarter in New York, USA.
>However, many of its board directors are in China, for example, Yu HaoCheng,
>Wang RuoShui and Guo LuoJi.  It contacts people in China regularly.
>
>This holiday season, HRiC will send greeting cards to people in China. Our
>hope is to reach a  a vast array of people who are concerned  with or
>interested in human rights issues.  The purpose of this outreach mailing is to
>let people who suffer human rights violations in China know that we care
>about them and we hope to work on their behalf.  We also want to reach
>people who are concerned.  Please send us  the names and addresses of
>people you know in China who would apprecite receiving such a card.
>
>You may mail the names and addresses in China to
>Huamn Rights in China
>485 Fifth Ave., 3Fl
>New York, NY  10017
>USA
>
>or send them to this email address in PinYin with tones and meaning stated
>so that we can figure out the correct Chinese characters.  Uuencoded or Hz
>coded GB files are better.
>
>Thanks.

You want to get more people arrested in exchange of getting your salaries
paid by HRiC?


Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: "(Xiaowen Li)" <lix@CRSA.BU.EDU>
Subject:      Re:  china-nt: Homeworks
Reply-To: "(Xiaowen Li)" <lix@CRSA.BU.EDU>
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 23:33:15 GMT
Comments: To: CHINA-NT@uga.cc.uga.edu

Yuan M Jiang wrote:
>Raymond Luh got a different one too: Chinese don't need human rights.

Then he is deadly wrong. But he has got what he deserves. His office
was raided and he was tested by "What_graph(?) Ce HuangYi", etc. by FBI,
his job in NASA Ames Center is still pending (maybe OK now, I hope).
All his UCMFN champain's email files are now legally in hands of government.
Well, I hope I did not say anything wrong in that champaign:-(

In such circumstance, I humbly suggest we mention that gentleman more
politely and cite him more accurately, since he has no way to defend himself
on this network.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: Undetermined origin c/o Postmaster <POSTMASTER@UGA.BITNET>
Subject:      Service Message
Reply-To: Undetermined origin c/o Postmaster <POSTMASTER@UGA.BITNET>
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 00:24:09 GMT
Comments: To: CHINA-NT@uga.cc.uga.edu

Report on your message to: /R=AM/U=YUNFENG/@mrgate.uwyo.edu
Reason: Failed to transfer; communications failure (0)
Arrival-date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 17:24:09 MST
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: "(Jinghong Li)" <jli@AMSC01.ENGR.UDAYTON.EDU>
Subject:      Re: MFN under Clinton's administration
Reply-To: "(Jinghong Li)" <jli@AMSC01.ENGR.UDAYTON.EDU>
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 03:17:27 GMT
Comments: cc: jli@amsc01.BITNET

>From: YAO@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU
>  The election of Clinton raises the question that if the CMFN would

I think Yang Yao raised several interest points, but some of his/her
conclusions seem not very convencing.

While agreed that each Country will mainly act according to their
own interests, I think the defination of "national interests" was
misunderstood in the mentioned post.  For a Country, let's define
to a non-ditatorship country, "national interests" covers many areas.
Not only export/import, not only economy, not only security, it often
and should include of respect of freedom of speech, basic human rights,
law and order, and etc.

Talking about Bush's behavior during the last couple of months, well,
there was really not much of "for Amecrican interests".   His
"everything goes" election maniac has indeed made history.  So, hold
your praise to him, at least for now.

No one knows what will President Clinton do on MFN, yet.  But every
indication tells us that a CMFN is very likely in the near future.
The question now is NOT how to justify non-condition-mfn's rightness,
rather, how to do the following two things:

    1.  push the Chinese Government act: respect human rights, release
        all (at least all 64 related) political prisoners, gurantee
        each and every oversea CSS's freedom when they go back, and etc;

        Please remember, it is time for the CG to make some real
        progress, NOT the other way around.  If you really care about
        reform in China, join us to make it work for the people, not just
        those priviledged few.

    2.  In the meantime, we can work on a more realistic MFN bill
        -- believe or not, there will be a bill regardless of IFCSS
        lobby or not -- what we can do is to make it workable.

Opportunities come and go, if one can catch it, he will only have himself
to blame -- this applies we CSS, and the Chinese Government.


Jinghong
From: wwxiong@tony.ksu.ksu.edu (Weize Wade Xiong)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
Subject: Reasons for Japan's China policy.
Date: 5 Nov 1992 22:10:20 -0600
Organization: Kansas State University
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: tony.ksu.ksu.edu


The Japanese, so far, has shown little friendly gesture toward China. Politicaly
they have failed  to apologize for their actions during the World War II. 
Economicaly, they have invested very little in China. I think there are 3 main
reasons behind these policies.
 
1) The evil Japnaese Nationalism has not died in Japan. In fact, it is growing
with Japan's economic strength. Young Japanese Know little about their
Grandfather's crimes in China.

2) The fear toward the Chinese Communist Goverment pervent the Japanese companies
from puting their money inside China. This also pervent Japanese Goverment from
getting to close to China.

3) Another fear that Japanese have, is the growth of China will outweight Japan's
economic super power position in the FarEast. They are affrid of a Super China.

I believe a good relationship between the two nations is important to both
countries. If we could work together, and solve the differences between us, the
future of the Far East will be great. After all China and Japan has more in
common than any other nations. Our culture and histry are tied together.


Weize Xiong
 
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: yawei@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (~{QG9p~})
Subject: Re: D-fighters in the U.S. :-)
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 03:01:25 GMT

In article <(~{5K6,F=~})DENG.92Nov8184028@math12.bunny.rhic.bnl.gov> deng@bunny.rhic.bnl.gov (~{5K6,F=~}) writes:

>Look at what happened in Georgia, the confederacy flag was incorporated on
>the state flag in the 50's. BTW, I bet if Colorado voted to secede from the
>Union, the union army would be descending on the soil of Colorado. Hey
>Liberals, where's Colorado people's right to self-determination?!  ;-).

Seriously, in that case, I think the people of Colorado should then
have the right of self-determination and seccesion.  It's a shame
that the authors of the U.S. constitution did not take care of this
matter. And after the precedent of the Civil War, I really don't 
know what would happen now ... (or what kind of excuse would be used
to stop the succession, rather.)

Back to the subject of the last message, I think the "damned liberals"
are justified to challenge the "voters of Colorado".  You see, unlike
some others on this net who would either like or dislike democracy
depending on the circumstances, I have ALWAYS placed individual
rights over democracy. Democracy is not supreme, individual right
is. When democracy interferes unfairly with individual human rights, 
this democracy should be challenged.  I have NEVER waffled on this. :-)

Funny thing that CCP sometimes can afford to be pretentious about
democracy, like putting on some faked "votes" here and there, but
it never tried to be pretentious about individual rights.
Interesting indeed.


    Ya-Gui Wei


Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: kxd5425@usl.edu (Du Kaisheng)
Subject: Re: MFN under Clinton's administration
Organization: University of Southwestern Louisiana
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 06:03:34 GMT

In article <wshi.721437421@ponder> wshi@ponder.csci.unt.edu (Weiping Shi) writes:
>In <1992Nov10.174608.21517@usl.edu> kxd5425@usl.edu (Du Kaisheng) writes:
>
>>Sorry I don't understand. I think I am still living in a much uneducated world
>>in which food and shelters are more important than an empty slogan.
>
>To make it clear,
>if Mr. A lets you have free speach and voting right,
>but no food or shelters, then Mr. A respects your human right.
>If Mr. B lets you to have food and shelter but no free speech
>and voting rights, Mr. B violates your human right.
>
>A proof that human right does not include food and shelters,
>look at the conditions in the CMFN.
>Food and shelters are what CCP is referring to as
>"surviving rights".
>
>Which one do you want is your choice.
>

If I can't survive then I would rather choose food and shelter. If I have had
enough food and a good place to live then I will fight for my "human right"
defined by you. Survival is always if the top priority to me.

To make thing clear: There are lat of homeless people in America. They have
all kinds of "human right" you are dying for. Would you like to trade everythingyou have now with him for the right of "free speech and voting ". I really
doubt it.

Also I don't care who refered the right of survival as the human right. For
me this problem is much more urgent than the right.  I do not mean those
right are not important.  A poor democratic country is no better than a
rich non-democratic country. It is seemed to me that Singapore was referred 
to as a country dictated by Li guang1yao4. It is much better than India.


Du
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
Subject: Alumni of Chengdu College of Geology (6th Notice)
From: <WXG101@psuvm.psu.edu>
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 17:00:21 EST
Organization: Penn State University


Hi, alumni of Chengdu College of Geology staying oversea:

An effort is being made to work out an alumni directory for the people who ever
studied or worked in Chengdu College of Geology (Chengdu Di-Yuan) and are stayi
ng in this country. If you want to be in the directory (absolutely free), or if
 you know somebody else wants, send a breif message about your name, class, curr
ent address, phone number and major to wxg101@psuvm.psu.edu. So far I know at
least 25 of our alumni here and of course hope to have additional ten or
more. Once the dirctory is, if possible, completed, I will send the directory t
o all the alumni.
      The idea cameout when I met with some Di-Yuan alumni at GSA last week at
Cincinnati.Hopefully, such a directory will help you
      - find the person(s) you missed
      - talk to each other
      - get help from or provide help to your colleagues
      - seek possibilities for co-operative research
      - ...

      Thank you.         wxg101 at psuvm.psu.edu


P.S. Please Specify your class (e.g. 79312, Hydrogeology)
Please Specify your last name (e.g. Weixing GUO or Guo, Weixing)

Newsgroups: talk.politics.drugs
From: doctor1@cbnewse.cb.att.com (patrick.b.hailey)
Subject: Re: Drug Legalization & Taxation, Drug Use [was Re: SOMEBODY'S GOT TO SAY IT]
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 08:52:35 GMT

In article <BxBLAL.83o@unix.amherst.edu> pfcouvar@unix.amherst.edu (Peter F. Couvares) writes:
>>> The solution is to legalize and tax drugs [...] to fund more education,
>>> advertisement, and rehabilitation programs.
>>Read my lips: less taxes, period.
>	I don't agree. Although the government has absolutely no legitimate
>authority to prohibit drug use, that doesn't necessarily mean that it
>shouldn't try to offset some of its negative consequences.
>...
>I don't think taxation for the purposes of education, quality & quantity>
>regulation, and rehabilitation poses any threat to people's freedom,

If you had left education off the list, you wouldn't have said anything I
disagree with enough to bother responding.  But government involvement in
education is a huge threat to our freedom.  Come on, Peter, you've been
around here a long time.  You experienced first hand the garbage they fill
people's minds with.

>I have one other small objection:
>>Careful!  The vast majority of drug users find drugs a boon, not a bane.
>	I wouldn't say the _vast_ majority. It really depends on where and at
>whom you look. In middle class areas, you'll find much healthier, happier
>drug use than you will in lower class areas. I have lots of compelling
>reasons to use drugs responsibly, but many others do not. In a situation of
>economic and social stability, people don't tend to abuse drugs as much as
>they do in situations of economic and social despair.

But the "middle class" ARE the vast majority of drug users.  They're not the
ones the warriors choose to highlight (lest the people realize that the
government has truly declared a war on its own citizens), and they're not
the ones that are shown on the news when they get caught, and they aren't
the ones that get addicted or cause the problems, but they are the vast
majority of the drug-involved population.

>	Reading further into your post, I get the feeling that you actually
>agree with me on this second point, but comments like the one above often
>turn people who have witnessed the very opposite away from the idea of drug
>legalizaton.

I can't help that.  The vast majority of drug users have no drug problems.
Period.  Perpetuating the myth that they do is not going to help the cause.

   Thanks awfully,
             Patrick

Newsgroups: talk.politics.drugs
From: rwilson@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Randy Wilson)
Subject: Re: irrelevancies (was Re: YYYEEEEESSSSSSS!!!)
Keywords: Braun,Feinstein,Boxer,Gore,Legalization,Hemp
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 21:41:53 GMT

In article <dmeyers.720977908@mal-s2> dmeyers@mal-s2.gatech.edu (Dave Meyers) writes:
>In <1992Nov4.233331.1@fnalo.fnal.gov> maxwell@fnalo.fnal.gov writes:
>>to elect a black female as a U.S. Senator, and to the voters of California
>
>Now, this is what my new subject is about.  In a vision of equality
>and people doing what they can as people, it seems to me that the
>gender and race of those we elected is completely irrelevant.  It
>sounds nice to cheer "yay - a <insert physical charaterization here>
>got elected!!!!", but is it not FAR FAR more important what the
>elected people THINK and plan on doing?

I disagree.  You're right, it is "more important what the elected
people think and plan on doing."  But:

>I don't care if the elected official is green, purple, blue,
>male, female, or a eunich for that matter.  The important thing
>is what they think about the issues, and how they think 
>about them (ie. for future issues).

Exactly.  "How they think about future issues" is very important.  And
what will shape that?  Their experiences.  And as much as we don't
like it, the experiences of a non-rich black woman in the US today are
FAR FAR different from those of a rich white man.  When those future
problems come up, don't we want someone in the US government who
understands the experiences of a black woman in the US today?

Randy

ObDrugs:  the Santa Cruz MJ initiative passed with ~75% yes votes.  But
what does this really mean?  Can Santa Cruz tell their police not to
enforce certain laws, and have it actually work?