From: tigger@satyr.Sylvan.COM (Grace Sylvan)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Examples for discussion (was Re: Plain Talk About Spanking (long))
Date: 10 Nov 92 06:59:56 GMT
	<1992Nov5.154258.9354@cbfsb.cb.att.com>
	<1992Nov06.235228.2222640@locus.com>
Organization: Sylvan Associates


   "You tell your 6 YO that you need to vacuum the floor and he needs to pick
   up his toys.  An hour later and the toys are not picked up."

First of all, I wouldn't let an hour go by for a 6 year old. I would
expect the toys to be picked up soon after I made the request, or
agree on a SPECIFIC time he'd do it (if he was busy at the time).

I would not have the 6 yr old vaccum after the toys are picked up
because it might not happen at all. (the consequence needs to be one
you can enforce without compounding the enforcement situation!).

I might say 'I expect the toys to be picked up by dinner'. If the toys
aren't picked up, I'd send him in to pick them up before he could come
to dinner. (or some other appropriate activity - fav. TV show comes to
mind). These consequences aren't totally related - but I might
consider them for the time frame use. I might also warn the child -
'dinner in 5 minutes!'.

My solution with my 3 year old (and we just did this) is I pick up the
toys (I just wanted the room neater!) and she can't have them again
until tomorrow. She has a desk with large plastic letters, and for
some reason, most of the letters were *all* over the livingroom floor
instead of in the desk compartment. I told her that it was cleaning up
time, and asked her where the letters belonged. (They were only part
of a huge mess, of course her brother did help). She told me, but
refused to pick them up. I requested a few times, then I told her that
I'd count to 5, and if she didn't clean them up, I would, and she
couldn't have any of them again until tomorrow. I counted. I started
picking up. She got concerned. I got a small bag, and continued
picking up. She started to cry. I continued, with her standing next to
me. I then went to take the remaining ones out of the desk (I did say
ALL). She tried to interfere, I kept going. Then, she did manage to
grab some, and to my suprise, put them into the bag, too, even though
she was clearly distressed.

The wonder is that when I continued my cleanup and noticed another toy
with many pieces on the floor and asked her to clean it up, she did
it, and quickly.

   "Your 4 year old forgets to flush the toilet.  This is one of your pet
   peeves and you really cannot allow it to continue."

Every time you find it not flushed, call the 4 year old in and make
them do it then. If that doesn't improve things, then pay attention
for a while, and try and catch them right after they've toileted and
then be sure the toilet is flushed. (After all, it is your peeve)  My
reason for this to teach a new pattern - pee, wipe, pull up pants,
flush, leave - or something like that, so that the flushing becomes
part of the automatic pattern.

   -----
   "Your 15 year old is supposed to be home at 8 PM.  It is now 10 PM and 
   and your child comes sauntering into the house."

Sauntering?  Hmm. Is this the first time the child is late? Has the
child had a drink?

First offense - I'd ask why the child was late.  I'd tell child how
upset/worried I was, and insist that next time there was going to be a
delay in arrival, that I be called. Possibly mention that if something
*had* happened, they wouldn't necessarily want to be rescued hours and
hours late.

I'd also look at the reason(s) my child gave, and consider if
renegotiating the 8 pm agreement is in order.

Multiple offenses - communicate my worry/disgust, and set up a time
for a brainstorming session. Both sit down and make a list of all
ideas (even those that the other says won't work) to solve the
problem. ie, later time home, calling in, arranging in advance that 1
night a week can be later than usual, picking child up, child has
watch with alarm and sets alarm so that they'll leave for home on
time, and so on. Then you both calmly go over the list and both sides
have veto power (and give a reason why (I won't pick you up, I'm too
busy with the baby at that time)). Then the two of you together
(presumably with the 15 year old leading - this method should be
employeed with younger kids, too!) look at the ideas that are left and
decide on a new agreement as to what will happen next time, and, if it
seems necessary, the length of time this new agreement it will be
tried for.
-- 

Tigger (Grace Sylvan)                Mom of Katherine Yelena, 8/8/89,
tigger@satyr.sylvan.com              Corey 1/31/91; we loved him so,
                                     Robin Gregory born 2/28/92

 "It seems to me that our large goal is to find the ways to help our
 children become humane and strong."
 
              - Dr Haim Ginott quoted by Adele Faber & Elaine Mazlish
Newsgroups: misc.kids