From: HC61@lafibm.lafayette.edu (HC61000)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: Quantum (and untutored Zen) and Beliefs (was Re: Absolutes)
Date: 19 Dec 92 21:26:10 GMT
Organization: Lafayette College
Originator: news@lafcol

In article <1992Dec17.200321.11367@data-io.com> li@Data-IO.COM (Phyllis Rostykus) writes:
>In article <1govt3INN2cl@gap.caltech.edu> lydick@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU writes:
>>I don't agree with your substitution of "true" for "valid."  I've just flipped
>>a coin, and haven't checked to see which way it somes up.  Now, were I to
>>believe it came up heads, and you were to believe it came up tails (rather than
>>both of us doing the reasonable thing and simply admitting that we don't know),
>>both beliefs would be invalid, in that there's no basis for either of them.  In
>>that sense, they'd both be equally valid.  However, one of them would be true,
>>while the other would not.
>
>Hmmm.. thought some more about this, and I don't really think that beliefs
>change what *is*.  Provable fact, verfied and cross-checked facts aren't
>changeable by belief.  Though perceptions of an event by different people
>may be different.  That's why I seperate the two.  The above is an example
>of a verfieable event and shows, perfectly, why belief can't change fact.
>
>But belief of things which cannot be verified is may be true beliefs to
>those that believe them.  No matter how they conflict.
>
>Does that make it any more clear?  "Is there a God?" is a question which
>cannot be verified.  "What's the result of the next toss of the coin." is
>something which can be verfied with the next toss of the coin.  Is the
>difference clear?
>
>It's the difference between asking "Are you a German national?" and "Are you
>a Buddist?"  *Being* a German is verifiable, there is documentation as to
>ones citizenary, usually; and it can be crosschecked by more than one
>person and verifiable by more than one person.  Someone can be verified as
>a German by an outside source.  Being a member of any relgion is a matter
>of belief.  There might be church record, etc.; but that is no proof that
>one actually believes in the tenants of that organization.   I'm recorded
>as being baptized in some Baptist church, but I am no Baptist by my
>beliefs.
>
>--
>Phyllis Rostykus    | "... and how you feel can make it real  | - _US_
>aka Liralen         | Real as anything you've seen            |   Peter
>"I'm no Saint!!" Li | Get a life with this dreamer's dream."  |   Gabriel
>.
>.

However, the cat gendenkenexperiment = thought experiment. That is to
say, if it were to be tried, the example would not be relevant any
longer.  To put it another way, the cat in the box has two
existances, 1: the cat's point of view, and 2: the experimenter's pov.
After the time has elapsed, the cat knows if it is alive. To the
experimenter, who has no data, the cat exists as a cloud of probilities.
Restatement: If the penny lands heads, I will become a CPA. Therefore,
I melt the penny. I take the resulting platter and flip it. Is the penny
heads or tails? Mu.
I probably should introduce myself more than just entering the bar and
asking for a diet caffine free coke.
VL: Chris, CIH, (Old handles: Paranoia, Egon, BlueBlood, The Stranger
(I still use the last. It's a reference to the Doors' "People are
Strange"))
RL: Christopher Ian Hare
Born/age Aug 12 74, 18
Drinks:Diet, Caffeine Free Coca- Cola, Cascadia Water (Like Clearly
Canadian, but 2 calories instead of 120), milk.
Am I getting Through?