HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pierson@kukri.mps.mlo.dec.com (dan pierson)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Space, the final frontier
Date: 11 Jan 93 22:28:29 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


   Could you give us more info on the opposition of DOD, etc.? On what
   basis are they opposing it? (what do they claim, and are the people
   making the claims hoping for nice jobs at aerospace corporations?)

OK, I was being unnecessarily cagey (but wanted a short post).  The
technology is generally called ballistic launch, i.e. shooting things
out of cannons*.  The DOD takes a dim view of people with very big
cannons.  Even when the cannons in question are fixed and not aimable
at any useful part of Earth.  It's not very rational, but rather
understandable I suppose.

The research was done by a Canadian group in the mid-60's using a pair
of 16" battleship gun barrels joined end to end.  The result was rather
unwieldy but sent packages up over 100 miles.

They claim that fixed guns with lighter barrels built up the side of a
supporting hill or some such would work better.  They also claim that
the large cannon in Iraq was designed for orbital launching, not long
range bombardment (debatable, and not very comforting if true) and
that it had an interesting fairly low tech travelling spaced charge
design to reduce g forces.

[One of the leading researchers was assasinated by the Israelis a bit
 before the Gulf War for designing cannon for Saddam; he'd worked for
 the South Africans before that.  Seems that he flipped out over the
 continual military opposition and decided to sell himself to the
 highest bidder.  Not very admirable...  The folks I met seemed a good
 deal more stable.]

   And while I can imagine mil-space rated packages going at 1000g s
   (as in fired from guns, I remember that electronic proximity fuses
   have been fired from guns for quite some time) is there any significant
   change that COMMERCIAL electronics (factory, consumer) can be packed
   to withstand this kind of ride? 

The packages in question were specially built scientific instruments
(lots of epoxy potting, the gyroscope rotated on compressed air).
They were rather bitter about NASA claims that nothing useful could
survive the launch forces since they'd designed quite a few things
that could and did.  The surviving team members I've talked to
believed that commercial electronics were practical.

Unfortunately, I moved a couple of months ago and may have trouble
locating the papers I picked up.  I'll try and let you know if I find
them or get some more.

This is fun but doesn't seem appropriate for alt.pagan.  Should we
move the thread somewhere?

                                     Blessings,
                                            dan

*Normal explosive propellants are the cheapest approach but they also
have done some work (I think mostly theoretical and model) with other
approaches, including railguns.
--
Dan L. Pierson          Digital Equipment Corporation
pierson@crl.dec.com     Massively Parallel Systems Group
From: alizard@pil
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: A new song from Stayka...
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 93 11:22:56 PST

Re: A new song from Stayka...
To: hz225wu@unidui.uni-duisburg.de (Micaela Pantke)

Stayka: I've been looking for Internet systems local to you that could give
you free of charge or at least low cost local access to E-mail, so that I,
among others, can write you. I posted them here, I guess they must have
scrolled off during the holiday interval during which you were off line, so
here's one that sounds local:
>I can recommend the following BBS, which offers Internet Mail Access:

> Maus Duisburg 1 & 2    Numbers:   +49-2841-536777
> ????????  +49-2841-55275

I've got another one on file but am having trouble digging it out, let me
know if you need others. 

Hope to see you in E-mail soon...
Bright Blessings...
                                                 A.Lizard
====== 93 ====== sum saurus, sum saurus, sum maximus saurus! ====== 93 ======
 (slogan contributed by Jessica Mc Geary)  (translated by Murray Altheim)
Mail to me should be sent to:       |  There are no fnords in this sig file.
alizard%tweekco%boo@PacBell.COM     |  autoreply to address I posted this
     ^^^ preferred site ^^^         |  from only if you want to wait a
PacBell.COM!boo!tweekco!alizard     |  solstice or two for my answer.
alizard@gentoo.com                  |              Kallisti!
     ^^^ backup site                |  PGP2.0 public key available on request

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Public Image Limited VBBS (510) 831-3634 [MUDS] Free Internet Access.
Subs-On Request/PCP Via CALOAK...     VBBS 5.608

Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: George Paap <george_paap@email.sps.mot.com>
Subject: Goddess Remembered and the Burning TImes
X-Xxdate: Tue, 5 Jan 93 16:39:09 GMT
Organization: Motorola RISC
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d16
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 22:43:01 GMT

Perhaps this has already been posted, but
I missed it.  Does anyone know if the 
Goddess Remembered and the Burning Times
are out on video tape and how I can get 
a copy?  All I remember is that they wre (produced?) by
the Canadian Film board.  [If anyone hasn't seen
them, I very highly recommend them]

Thanks,

George

I am my beliefs.
(which almost certainly are not those of my employer)
From: lib1p@jane.uh.edu (Tammy Stark Blandino)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Help with Songs...
Date: 9 Jan 1993 02:13 CST
Organization: University of Houston
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: jane.uh.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

In article <1362@abb-sc.abb-sc.COM>, ksm@abb-sc.abb-sc.com (Ashley) writes...
> 
>In article <1iibbrINNm5b@shelley.u.washington.edu>, mkkuhner@phylo.genetics.washington.edu (Mary K. Kuhner) writes...
>>In article <1ihft4INN324@bigboote.WPI.EDU> brenda@wpi.WPI.EDU (brenda) writes:
>> 
> Quite some time ago I posted a list of pagan recording artists.
> If needed I could write it again.

OH, please do......:)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan

In alt.pagan, darsie@eecs.ucdavis.edu (Richard Darsie) writes:

 >I have a wonderful album by two pagan women, Ruth Barrett & Cynthia Smith,
 >called "Music of the Rolling World". It's fairly old, on the Kicking Mule

I do not have that album, but wanted to mention two others done by these
women, Ruth Barrett and Cyntia ( Yes, Cyntia ) Smith.  Nicely pagan.
Available from Ladyslipper ( 800 634-6044 ), as is lots of women, pagan
music.

Aeolus   AEO001

Deepening   ICE5105

David Post  davep@hpfcpp.fc.hp.com  hplabs!hpfcla!post
From: cassp@ucs.orst.edu (Penny Cass)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Ritualistic questions
Date: 10 Jan 1993 21:58:41 GMT
Organization: University Computing Services - OSU
NNTP-Posting-Host: ucs.orst.edu

In article <1993Jan10.114056.11289@cltr.uq.OZ.AU> czarbock@cltr.uq.oz.au (Carol Zarbock) writes:
>Paul,
>
>Seeing the world as a biological entity, (the world of scope, even if it
>was not what we call the world today), *is* what preliterate cultures *did*
>do.  No, we can not be certain what was done 10,000 years ago, nor even 200
>years ago, but there is a certain amount of reconstruction and best
>guessing that serves me well when trying to come up with something useable
>for *today*.


Athena; 

I quite agree with you.  I did not mean to imply that we should ignore
what we know about the historical basis of modern pagan religion.  My
concern is that virtually every book that deal with the subject is labeled
by someone as a fraud, made up of whole cloth or just plain bogus.  I
have no idea just how accurate these works are, but many of them contain
ideas and techniques for individual and circle eco-religious practice.
So the historical aspect becomes secondary to the funcuntional in my
view.>
>That is one of the reasons I'm down here in Australia.  There are remnants
>to be found, perhaps easier here than in some places.  Even though it may
>not directly relate to my Pagan roots of ancient Great Britain, humans
>throughout the world did have many things in common thought they may have
>gone about things differently due to geographical or climactic reasons.

Now that would be interesting.  I would enjoy reading about what you
have learned ....sort of a compare and contrast type thing.  

>
>No one can *ever* say for certain what was what in the distant or immediate
>past.  Nor can two people even get the same story when they see an
>accident.  I just think the past is worth considering as it may give some
>enlightenment on the present.

I am sure that the past holds much for us.  Whether or not we can ever
discover what my ancient relatives on the isle of South Uist did prior
to the introduction of christianity is doubtful.  I can provide grand-
mother stories, which nobody wants to hear because she never wrote 
anything down.  Besides she would have described herself as a christian
though I doubt that many modern evangalistic reactionary christian types
would consider her one.  Even so, her religion was more magical and 
nature oriented than many pagans I have met.>


>Blessed Be,

>Athena

I still have questions on rituals and ceremonies for esttablishing a
greater spiritual connection with nature - Gaia - 
BB
Paul

-- 
--*--*--*--*--*--*--*-- SECUNDUM NATURAM VIVESI --*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--
"Sustainable development can only be pursued if population size and growth
 are in harmony with the changing productive potential of the ecosystem"- U.N.
-- Internet: casspe@mist.cs.orst.edu --*-- UUCP hplabs!hp-pcd!orstcs!casspe -- 
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: thorfinn@wixer.cactus.org (Thorfinn Einarsson)
Subject: re: being a pagan can be fun...
Organization: Real/Time Communications
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 93 06:39:20 GMT

Let's work together. Each of us is a shining star in the darkness!

Pertaining to state agencies trying to take away parents' children:
A member of the Ring of Troth High Rede (Board of Directors) is a lawyer
living in Arizona. A long while ago, he was working for the state when
he heard of a case where a couple with child was breaking up. The husband
wanted possession of the child, so he made his wife's pagan beliefs a 
big issue with the state. Because the state of Arizona believed that
a single pagan mother would not be a good parent, her child was taken from
her. The Troth Highredesman started to investigate the case, asking for 
information from several state agencies, because he believed she was 
not being treated fairly. He was fired for his efforts. His bosses said
something about proper conduct of state lawyers or some such nonsense.
He is now in private practice.

>Iluinn Dreamdance #30 @9950 WWIVnet writes:
>I tried to explain to him that I was a Pagan, not a Satanist...but he'd have

I am very glad that the state did not take away the child, and I think that
we pagans should try to help each other when dealing with non-pagans.
But, I disagree with the statement, that Satanists and Pagans are mutually
exclusive. Good Luck!

=-= Thorfinn Einarsson =-=-=-= Break On Thru to the Other Side =-=-=-=-=
"Guilt. Although the most acute judges of the witches, and even the
witches themselves, were convinced of the guilt of witchery, the guilt
was non-existent. It is thus with all guilt." ---Nietzsche
=-= From *The Gay Science* [250] =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ALU =-=-=-=-=
From: casspa@atlantis.CS.ORST.EDU (Paul Cass)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: something irritating in Ms. Magazine
Date: 12 Jan 1993 17:13:19 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Outreach Services - Oregon State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: atlantis.cs.orst.edu

In article <C0pJM8.2pH.1@cs.cmu.edu> drake+@cs.cmu.edu (Drake) writes:
>Vossdavi@student.msu.edu (Lisa  Ann) writes:
>
>>happens I'm bolting the door from the inside! Anyone likely to believe that
>>drivel isn't going to know the difference between a wiccan and a satin
>>worshipper!
>
>Oh that's easy...a wiccan is a person who believes in the harmony of the
>universe and the cycle of the seasons and such, while a satin worshipper
>just believes in the Moody Blues and sits around listening to them all day.
>
>                       DRAKE   | or it'll bounce back to you...


There is some sort of connection between satan worship.....ah...just saw
the pun....very nice. |B{)  I would just cancel this message except that
anyone who makes that sort of pun deserves applause.
BB
Paul
>
-- 
                          * * * * * * *
"It is possible to join forces, to identify common goals, and to agree on
 common action." - U.N. World Commission on Development and Environment
		       casspa@jacobs.cs.orst.edu
Xref: sparky alt.pagan:14883 talk.religion.misc:25039
From: amanda@intercon.com (Amanda Walker)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: The meaning of "pagan"
Date: Mon,  4 Jan 1993 01:10:39 -0500
Organization: InterCon Systems Corporation
Distribution: world
Reply-To: amanda@intercon.com (Amanda Walker)
NNTP-Posting-Host: chaos.intercon.com
X-Newsreader: InterCon TCP/Connect II 1.1b31

In article <C0BAv6.LHw.1@cs.cmu.edu>, drake+@cs.cmu.edu (Drake) writes:
> It appears to be a phrase that requires little interpretation.

Oh, come now.  "I am the way, the truth, and the life?"  You can't do 
anything *but* interpret it symbolically.  It has no concrete denotational 
meaning whatsoever.

> However, if you take it to mean what it actually says, you have little 
> difficulty with varying "interpretations." 

Not in this case, since there is no literal meaning assignable to the 
statement.  Any assignment of meaning must perforce make assumptions, and 
interpret the abstract nouns symbolically...

> >Take even Roman Catholicism, arguably the most exclusionary 
> >of Christian sects. 
> 
> Aguable?  Yes.  Successfully arguable?  Not in your wildest dreams.

Heh.  Roman canon law seems to disagree with you.
  
> Unless, of course, you want to play with semantics and define Christian 
> however it suits you.

I don't understand this statement, unless you are claiming that Catholics are 
not Christian.  I've heard this position from evangelicals, though I strongly 
disagree...  What exactly do you mean?

> Yes...however, neither you nor he will find justification with the 
> pages of Holy Writ to support your contention.

The writings of St. Paul?  The Gospel of John?  Do these count?  How about 
Philippians 4:8 or John 14:1-6? 

> The Christian Bible 
> proclaims Jesus of Nazareth to be the one and only path to God, and, by 
> extension, Christianity to be the one and only "true" religion.  Can 
> you provide any Scripture - as oppossed to human interpreter's 
> thoughts - to deny this? 

It sounds like you've been indoctrinated with the Protestant fallacy of "sola 
scriptura"--the thought that scripture is the sole and complete embodiment of 
Divine revelation, and that its meaning is simple and readily apparent.  This 
view is not held by the majority of Christians (Catholic, Orthodox, and 
Anglican), and not even scripture itself supports this view.  See for example 
Matthew 13:10-11; Mark 4:10-11,33-34;  Luke 8:10; John 16:12; 1 Corinthians 
2:4-10; 2 Thessalonians 2:15; 2 Peter 3:16; and so on.  Don't confuse 
whatever brainwashing you may have received with the fullness of two millenia 
of Christian faith.

Of course, I can't pull off your blinders for you, or keep you from looking 
for axes to grind.

I guess this is what I get for participating in a thread that leaked out into 
a talk group :(.

Have fun, folks.  I'll go back to my usual haunts.



Amanda Walker
InterCon Systems Corporation
From: boylan@sltg04.ljo.dec.com (Steve Boylan)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Ritualistic questions
Date: 8 Jan 93 14:38:25 GMT
Reply-To: boylan@ljohub.enet.dec.com (Steve Boylan)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


In article <1iiadjINNa28@leela.CS.ORST.EDU>, casspa@atlantis.CS.ORST.EDU
(Paul Cass) writes:

> I am currently reading "Year of Moons, Season of Trees" by Pattalee 
> Glass-Koentop and I have run into a bit of a block.

[trimmed for brevity]

> Oh yes...does anyone have a suggestion for a substitute for rowan?

The "rowan" is the European mountain ash, Sorbus aucuparia.  A close
relative is Sorbus americana, the American mountain ash, also known
colloquially as a rowan.

				- - Steve

--
Don't miss the 49th New England Folk Festival,
April 23-25, 1993 in Natick, Massachusetts!
From: wcs@anchor.ho.att.com (Bill Stewart +1-908-949-0705)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Why the Cross?
Date: 6 Jan 93 04:46:01 GMT
Organization: Your typical phone company involved in your typical daydream

In article <gate.27smwB1w165w@pil.UUCP> alizard@pil writes:
   If my memory is correct, the cross was only used for ONE class of crime:
   Crimes Against the Roman Empire... e.g. treason. The only way that people

No, it was used for the one universal crime, which is "annoying the government".
It was what the Romans did to people when they wanted to make a point -
for instance, when Julius Caesar was young, he was kidnapped by pirates,
and when his folks paid the ransom he threatened to come back with an
army and crucify them, and later did so.  Some of the later emperors
would crucify hundreds of people after a revolt, and maybe burn them as well.

As Tammy points out, Jesus *was* a political problem for the Roman officials,
as well as for the Jewish ones, and if the Romans could get rid of one problem
by killing off somebody that the local officials were also giving them a
hard time about also, and reminding the local population who was boss,
what's a little conscience-attack between friends.
--
#				Pray for peace;      Bill
# Bill Stewart 1-908-949-0705 wcs@anchor.att.com AT&T Bell Labs 4M312 Holmdel NJ
# !egassem terces eht dnuof ev'uoY  !snoitalutargnoC
From: lib1p@jane.uh.edu (Tammy Stark Blandino)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: In need of phone number, and Runes...
Date: 5 Jan 1993 22:48 CST
Organization: University of Houston
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: jane.uh.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

In article <1993Jan5.224544.16695@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, kditto@nyx.cs.du.edu (Kimborly Ditto) writes...
> 
>Hi there!
> 
>I am in need of the phone number for The Brewer's Witch 

(713) 272-7350
The Brewer's Witch
Houston, Texas

Tammy, still trying to figure Waffle out.
From: cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Subject: something irritating in Ms. Magazine
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 10 Jan 93 21:36:24 GMT

I was reading the latest issue of Ms. Magazine, and came across
something that I would not have expected of them, given their reputation
for sensibility and sensitivity.

In this issue, they discuss the very real and sad existence of cult
ritual abuse of children.  Also in the issue, they actually use the word
Wicca, which I've never read on their pages; I've always been a little
disappointed in the invisibility of Paganism and women's spirituality on
their pages.  They mention various observances of the new year in
passing, Wiccan being one of them.  They also do a piece on Salem
witchcraft, and in it they do discuss the Craft itself, unfortunately
mostly with Laurie Cabot, but at least it's a nice "This is legit" type
of thing.

The problem?  On the front cover of the magazine is a painting meant to
go with the story about cult ritual abuse; it is a child menaced by
abstract demons and surrounded by "weird" symbols obviously meant to
connote satanic stuff, since the article focuses on a very perverse cult
that calls itself satanic.  Featured six times among these symbols of
menace is the pentacle, a symbol of life, rebirth, and creativity, as
well as connection to the natural universe.

Do we need this from Ms.?  I have actually had one of the students I
TA'ed in anthro write on my evaluation that I shouldn't be allowed to
teach because I "obviously" worship Satan (I wore my pentacle outside
my clothes a few times, hiding it the others out of fear of just that
reaction from the ignorant).  After ignoring Wicca so conspicuously, and
then mentioning it only in passing and then doing a piece on witch-hunts
as an excuse to mention Wicca (and not bringing up Paganism and Wicca as
the vibrant and self-reliant religions with rich histories that they
are) they then show a pentacle as if it's a sign of satanism, more
specifically evil.  I expected better from Ms.

The address to write to them, as I'm going to do, is:

Letters to the Editors
Ms. Magazine
230 Park Avenue
New York, NY  10169

We deserve better treatment from a magazine that purports to represent a
feminist viewpoint, and so mistreats a religion that is so richly
connected to feminism in this country. 

Blessings,
Janis
From: troyce@pro-haven.cts.com (Troyce Wilson)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Proof That GUI is SATANIC!!!!
Date: 11 Jan 1993 18:25:54 -0600
Organization: ProLine [pro-haven] - Pariahs' Haven BBS, 409/846-3177, 9600-300
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

I don't know about GUI, but on another computer service, people were
talking about how Pat Robertson was saying that credit cards were Satanic. 
I wonder if this means he won't take donations on charge cards anymore?
---
Internet: troyce@pro-haven.cts.com
UUCP:     crash!pro-haven!troyce
From: ksm@abb-sc.abb-sc.com (Ashley)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Help with Songs...
Date: 8 Jan 93 19:25:32 GMT
Organization: Kaos Laboratories


In article <1iibbrINNm5b@shelley.u.washington.edu>, mkkuhner@phylo.genetics.washington.edu (Mary K. Kuhner) writes...
>In article <1ihft4INN324@bigboote.WPI.EDU> brenda@wpi.WPI.EDU (brenda) writes:
> 
>>Now, the question... are there any songs that all Pagans/Wiccans/Witches
>>know?  at the end of the ritual, they all broke into song heartily, and me 
>>and my friend were just standing there...  Are there any songs that are very
>>popular that i could learn?
> 
>>brenda@wpi.wpi.edu    "One of the witnesses MUST not be telling us      
> 

Liabana is a all women group that puts out tapes of many better known pagan 
songs as well as thier own material, you might try looking for them in your 
local Tower Records. I found a tape of theirs there once in the New Age section 
under a hand drawn card marked "Wiccan Music" (gee, I wonder if a Witch works 
there, hmmmm!)

	Also the band "Sky Cries Mary" has a cover of "The River Is Flowing" on 
their EP. This song was piped up quite loudly by severeral of us Pagan folk 
whenever the christians at the Northern Cal. Reanaissance Pleasure Faire got 
obnoxious with their hymns! Turned into a little music war one night at the 
showers. Seems most of us new it or picked it up quickly...

	Quite some time ago I posted a list of pagan recording artists. If 
needed I could write it again.

			- Ashley
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: Space, the final frontier
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 01:53:53 GMT

cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
: In article <1993Jan2.072222.6330@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes:
: >: If these alleged rocket scientists have NUMBERS that demostrate that scaling
: >: railguns up to the 1 metric ton range with output velocities in the 5
: >: mi/second range are impossible,
: >
: >There would be little problem, in space. It cannot be done here on Earth,
: >due to atmospheric drag.
: 
: Uh -- how do you keep the launching station from soaking up momentum by
: shooting off in the opposite direction?  You'd have to build a PRETTY
: BIG FUCKING STATION.

Depends on the mass of the station. You can always use a lower, and slower,
acceleration to get the station back into position. Or,  you can put it on
a body that has such a large mass, relative to the payload, that the reaction
is negligible.

Bill

: 
: Blessings,
: Janis 
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,talk.religion.misc