HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: soc.women,alt.censorship,talk.politics.misc,soc.men
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 23:31:29 -0400 
From: Thomas Omar Smith <ts2a+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Hate speech okay, Supreme Court says
	<1992Jul21.215707.29491@Princeton.EDU>

Ed says:

>If the St Paul law was unConstitutional because in some strange way it
>addressed the "content" of a "speech act", and (stare the 1988 decisis
>re the Revolutionary Communist Party's flag burning) almost any act is
>therefore speech, then I hereby state that the way I speak about the
>idiot injustice of our economic system is, I knock over convenience
>stores.  A la Thelma 'n Louise.  Whaddya mean there's a law against
>armed robbery?  You is unjustly addressing my speech act based on its
>content, which I claim necessarily includes emptying the cash drawer.
>So all you people git yo ass down on the floor.

The 1988 ruling also held that you could not burn a flag if it would
incite a riot.  The act of burning the flag was legal (it is the
standard method of disposing of old flags).  The act of burning a flag
as a political statement is also legal, since the speech does is
protected under the first amendment.  However, when the burning is done
in a way that will tend to incite a riot, then it becomes a crime.  Not
because of the political content of the speech, but because of the act
of inciting a riot.

I'd make sure I read that ruling completely before I spouted off if I
were you.  Your inability to understand the difference between direct
and indirect action, and the legal consequences, is frightful.

					Tom the non hacker
					Kemp in 96!
					Ross Perot may indeed turn this
					country around.  However, his next act
					will probably be to bend it over.
From: stricher@masig.fsu.edu (Char Aznabul)
Newsgroups: soc.women
Subject: Re: Provocative Questions
Date: 25 Jul 92 15:33:47 GMT
Distribution: na

In article <5415@ssc-bee.ssc-vax.boeing.com> ginger@ssc-vax.boeing.com  
(Ginger Grover) writes:

+  		    Ashley Montague, _The_Natural_Superiority_of_Women_
                                          ^^^^^^^
I doubt it...

K'Char
Newsgroups: soc.women
From: rauser@fraser.sfu.ca (Richard John Rauser)
Subject: Re: Danielle (story)
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 03:18:11 GMT


    The ending of Danielle is not intended to be realistic. The story
moves from a realistic narrative to a surrealistic narrative for the
purpose of expressing its themes in a more dramatic way. 

--
Richard J. Rauser      "Sonic 2!"
rauser@sfu.ca              -what Guile really says
WNI
From: csulaima@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Cynthia Renee Sulaiman)
Newsgroups: soc.women
Subject: Need ideas
Date: 30 Jul 92 18:28:43 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver


   
   I'm doing a paper on domestic violence. One section of the
paper deals with prevention or solutions to domestic violence.

   I'd be interested in hearing from those who have any thoughts
on this topic.

   Thanks

   Cynthia Sulaiman
Newsgroups: soc.women
Subject: Re: RU-486 volunteer
From: RGINZBERG@eagle.wesleyan.edu (Ruth Ginzberg)
Date: 27 Jul 92 06:50:24 EDT
Distribution: world
Organization: Philosophy Dept., Wesleyan University
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.20In-Reply-To: Arthur_T_Hu@cup.portal.com's message of Sun, 26 Jul 92 09:45:54 PDTLines: 18

In <62842@cup.portal.com> Arthur_T_Hu@cup.portal.com writes:

> Believe it or not, there are patterns of behavior that make this a moot
> question. It was never an issue in my family because none of us go pregnant
> or got anybody else pregnant, and it is unbelievably easy to make it happen
> this way (basically we didn't sleep around!)

Obviously your father got your mother pregnant at least once, & from your post
it sounds like possibly more than once.  :-)

Seriously:  Whatever makes you think that only people who are "sleeping around"
need abortions?  Among folks I know who've had abortions, I'd say that an equal
number to those who were unmarried, is the number who were married to the
insemenator.

------------------------
Ruth Ginzberg <rginzberg@eagle.wesleyan.edu>
Philosophy Department;Wesleyan University;USA
Newsgroups: soc.women
From: bhv@areaplg2.corp.mot.com (Bronis Vidugiris)
Subject: Re: What has this got to do with dildos?
Organization: Motorola, CCR&D, CORP, Schaumburg, IL
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 20:58:05 GMT

In article <BrrEC3.GKr@comp.vuw.ac.nz> Gavin.Flower@comp.vuw.ac.nz (Gavin Flower) writes:

)Actually the word "person" is hardly politically correct, "son" is a
)male child, so maybe it should be "perchild"?  

If you say so.  Of corse, then  Menstruate should be Perstruate, or maybe
mynstruate......  Oh yeah - my PC dictionary (very funny - on sale at 
a local bookstore near you) gives 'ovarimony' as the PC substitute for
testimony (because of the "testi" prefix, of course).  In case it isn't
obvious, this is *not* a serious work.  It's got some other neat stuff,
like how 'sun people' are warm, gregarious, etc. etc. [with an inset
picture of "Idi Amin, A Sun Person", and 'ice people' are cold, calculating,
etc etc [with an inset picture of Mother Teresa, An Ice Person].

)This "sexist" language thing, can get somewhat absurd, even when it's
)not just plain clumsy.

I find, though it took some getting used to, that I generally prefer
non-sexist langauge.  There are plenty of anti-male sentiments that are
expressed indirectly through sexist language, IMO (just as there are plenty
of anti-female sentiments expressed this way).  Using non-sexist langauge
tends to defuse them both.

I certainly don't insist that everyone use non-sexist langauge, though I will
occasionally re-word someone's remark in a nonsexist manner to clarify the
meaning.

I *definitely* would like the freedom to be able to use NSL without getting
'jumped on' for combining 'a person' with 'they'.  [And, in general, I'd
like to see some of the more rigid grammarians 'lighten up' on all related
issues, like 'This data'.  Fat chance, I know :-)].

I don't have much sympathy for changing the spelling of words, though.
[Wimmin, wymyn, personhole cover, etc etc etc.].  That does rub me the
wrong way.
Newsgroups: soc.women
Subject: Re: What has this got to do with dildos?
From: Gavin.Flower@comp.vuw.ac.nz (Gavin Flower)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 21:57:38 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Comp. Sci., Victoria Uni. of Wellington, New Zealand.

In article <1992Jul21.183247.17540@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com> bhv@areaplg2.corp.mot.com (Bronis Vidugiris) writes:
>The grammatically correct version:
>
>'When people post to the net, they should know what they are doing'
>
>has a subtly different meaning from 
>
>'When a person posts to the net, he or she should know what he or she is
>doing'.
>
>Which is the 'grammatically correct' but awkward way of saying:
>
>'When a person posts to the net, they should know what they are doing'
>

The first version seems to read the best, the second version is
abominable.  This last version I find yucky, the word "person" is
grossly overused.  As a suffix it tends to dominate the root word,
especially when spoken.   

There is an argument that saying "he or she" discriminates those rare
individuals who are asexual, so to be totally fair, one should say
"he, she, or it".

Actually the word "person" is hardly politically correct, "son" is a
male child, so maybe it should be "perchild"?  

This "sexist" language thing, can get somewhat absurd, even when it's
not just plain clumsy.

I think Helen, from ARM Ltd, had the most sensible post, I've ever
seen on the subject.


Gavin
-- 
Tomorrow's Society                              | flower_g@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
    Depends on                                   ----------------------------
Today's Children  - help us raise them properly! 
*******  These comments have no known correlation with dept. policy!  *******
Newsgroups: soc.women
From: kja@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (krista.j.anderson)
Subject: Re: women's place in life
Organization: AT&T
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 20:28:24 GMT

In article <1992Jul30.033512.1695@lugb.latrobe.edu.au>, CS19240760T@LUST2.LATROBE.EDU.AU (VURGUN, SINAN) writes:
> 	Obviously the guy who wrote the article was just trying to 
> 	get a reaction and what do you do? You write back an article

What's wrong with responding to a bad joke with another bad joke?
Or as a woman, am I supposed to be too rational to do that?
Xref: sparky soc.women:14352 alt.censorship:6492 talk.politics.misc:36639 soc.men:13908
From: slarsen@titian.helios.nd.edu (susan larsen)
Newsgroups: soc.women
Subject: Re: Women and AIDS (Was, for some strange reason, Re: All feminists are lesbian man-haters)
Date: 30 Jul 92 13:10:02 GMT
Organization: University of Notre Dame, Notre Dame

In article <1992Jul30.021047.26587@leland.Stanford.EDU> repnomar@leland.Stanford.EDU (Janet M. Lafler) writes:
>
>According to the CDC, the women whose AIDS cases have been reported to date
>were most likely to have been infected through injection drug use (50%) or 
>sexual contact with an injection drug user (over 20%).  Transmission through
>sexual contact with a bisexual male was only the case in fewer than 5%.
>

Janet,

These add up to about 75%.  What about the other 25% of women's 
AIDS cases?  Transfusions?  Unknown causes?  Does this figure 
reflect female children born with HIV?


Sue Larsen
slarsen@berlin.helios.nd.edu
From: stricher@masig.fsu.edu (Char Aznabul)
Newsgroups: soc.women
Subject: More sarcasm (was: women's place in life)
Date: 29 Jul 92 01:15:33 GMT
Distribution: na

In article <1992Jul28.212406.4109@cbfsb.cb.att.com> kja@cbnewsf.cb.att.com  
(krista.j.anderson) writes:
+ In article <1992Jul26.142146.1@engr>, s_mesbah@engr writes:
+ > 	I am new to this group and I'd just thought I'd share my views with
+ > you.  I think that all you women should get away from the computer and  
start
+ > doing what you were created to do (kitchen, kids, and domesticated love  
slave).
+ 
+ <sarcasm mode on>
+ Yeah?  Well, maybe you should get away from the computer and start
+ doing what you were created to do - go fight a nice,
+ population-controlling war and if you survive, bring back lots of
+ looted treasures to see if you can win yourself a harem.

Shoot, I don't even gotta do that. Some of them looted treasures sure
are pretty, and they'll settle down once I get 'em home.

+ <sarcasm mode off>

K'Char
From: stricher@masig.fsu.edu (Char Aznabul)
Newsgroups: soc.women
Subject: Re: women's place in life
Date: 28 Jul 92 22:29:20 GMT
Followup-To: /dev/null
Distribution: na

In article <131674@lll-winken.LLNL.GOV> lisa@zeppelin.llnl.gov (Lisa  
Corsetti) writes:
+ 
+ Isn't it amazing how some develop computer skills far earlier in life
+ than maturity? 

Isn't it amazing how otherwise saavy people respond to obvious flamebait?

Note the followups...

K'Char
Newsgroups: soc.women
From: peri@cco.caltech.edu (Michal Leah Peri)
Subject: Re: RU-486 volunteer
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 21:06:40 GMT

mlantin@csi.uottawa.ca (Maria Lantin) writes:

>I don't think that one has to "sleep
>around" to get pregant.  It only takes one.  I know this is common sense
>but I think that no matter how a person was brought up mistakes are
>made and unwanted pregnancies occur.  

Gee, I always thought it took two.  She's absolutely right about 
accidents, though.  I was brought up to think that only "bad people"
had accidental pregnancies, but now I know differently.  I do wish our
society would remove the stigma from unintended pregnancies....

Newsgroups: soc.women
From: horen@rs.com (Jonathan B. Horen)
Subject: Re: Right To Not Support
Reply-To: horen@rs.com
Organization: Renaissance Software, Inc.
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 07:37:31 PDT

In article 712307019@lear.cs.duke.edu, gazit@duke.cs.duke.edu (Hillel Gazit) writes:
>
>If you read feminist literature, especially what was written before
>1974, you see talking about the importance of abortion right,
>so women will have sexual freedom.
>
>If you read today's feminists, you see the importance of sending
>the FBI after dead-beat dads, no matter why they don't pay, so
>all these nasty men will not have sexual freedom.
>
>The issue is control, and main-stream feminism just hate the idea
>of men's sexual freedom; they want to control us.  (The "logic"
>is similar to women's "logic" in support of the Prohibition BTW.)


Yasher koach!





Newsgroups: soc.women
From: Will Steeves <goid@zooid.guild.org>
Subject: Re: Deaths of mothers
X-To: CURTIS M. COMPTON
Organization: The Zoo of Ids
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 01:22:00 GMT

compton@plains.NoDak.edu (Curtis M. Compton) writes...
CMC> gordons@coopsol.com (Gordon Storga) writes...
CMC> GS> Pretty funny stuff, Suzanne.  Why don't you try reading one of those ma
CMC> GS> books you claim to have on fetal development.  Check on when the nervou
CMC> GS> system is capable of transmitting pain and then get back to us.

CMC> goid@zooid.guild.org (Will Steeves) speaks for Suzanne...
                                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Actually, I was merely replying to Gordon's question, which I didn't think
I needed Susanne's permission to do.  If he wanted *her* to answer the
question, and nobody else, conceivably he would have asked the question
via e-mail.


CMC> WS> Eight weeks.

CMC> Well, I would like to read your book.  Mine says mylenation begins at the
CMC> 24th week.  Care to comment?

Well, I did not write a book, but this is something that I read here, on the
net, and many times before that.  To clarify, the figure of eight weeks was
given as the point where "rudimentary brain functions begin" (to use exact
wording).

Perhaps therefore, we are speaking at cross purposes if we are referring to
slightly different things.

Besides which, there is still much debate as to what is constiututed by
mylenation and whether or not it is a relevant factor in development
vis-a-vis the abortion debate.

---
Will Steeves, goid@zooid.guild.org                "Neil Hull is GOiD"
ZOOiD BBS, Toronto, Ontario - The Zoo Of Ids
(416) 322-7876
---
 * SLMR 2.1a * I thank my lucky stars I'm not superstitious...
Newsgroups: soc.women
From: repnomar@leland.Stanford.EDU (Janet M. Lafler)
Subject: Re: Women and AIDS (Was, for some strange reason, Re: All feminists are lesbian man-haters)
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 92 03:12:45 GMT

In article <1992Jul30.131002.15964@news.nd.edu> slarsen@titian.helios.nd.edu (susan larsen) writes:
>In article <1992Jul30.021047.26587@leland.Stanford.EDU> repnomar@leland.Stanford.EDU (Janet M. Lafler) writes:
>>
>>According to the CDC, the women whose AIDS cases have been reported to date
>>were most likely to have been infected through injection drug use (50%) or 
>>sexual contact with an injection drug user (over 20%).  Transmission through
>>sexual contact with a bisexual male was only the case in fewer than 5%.
>>
>
>These add up to about 75%.  What about the other 25% of women's 
>AIDS cases?  Transfusions?  Unknown causes?  Does this figure 
>reflect female children born with HIV?

Good questions.  First of all, transmission was "other/undetermined" in about
7% of cases.  This category includes the small number of healthcare workers 
who have suffered occupational exposure, for instance.  In about 8% of cases 
transmission was due to receipt of a blood transfusion, blood components or 
tissue.  About 4% were born in "Pattern-II" countries or had had sex with 
someone born in a "Pattern-II" country.  (Pattern-II countries are those in 
which HIV infection is widely spread via heterosexual intercourse, e.g. some 
African and Caribbean countries.)  For the rest, the transmission was through 
sex with a hemophiliac (.5%), a transfusion recipient (.8%), or an HIV-
infected person whose risk group was unspecified (5%).  And, finally, a tiny 
number had hemophilia or coagulation disorder (and were presumably infected 
through transfusions).  Females with hemophilia/coagulation disorder are 
relatively rare, and they have a hard time surviving after puberty.  (Think
about it.)  

These numbers are all rough, I hasten to add.  They're given in total
cases in the report, not percentages, and I don't have a calculator handy
so I'm doing the arithmetic in my head.

The figures I quoted were adult/adolescent cases of AIDS, that is, cases in
people over age 13.  Pediatric cases of AIDS are, of course, more or less
evenly distributed between males and females, though there's a slight pre-
dominance of males because of the rarity of hemophilia in females.  Pediatric
AIDS cases are only about 1.5% of total cases to date.

/Janet

-- 
Internet: repnomar@leland.stanford.edu // GEnie: J.LAFLER
"Turnips care deeply about many things," remarked Rush, appearing suddenly. 
"Turnips are strongly emotional vegetables...."
Newsgroups: soc.women
From: Will Steeves <goid@zooid.guild.org>
Subject: Re: Impossible
X-To: BETH WEISS
Organization: The Zoo of Ids
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 02:01:00 GMT

bweiss@cs.arizona.edu (Beth Weiss) writes...
BW> There are men whose idea of a compromise is to consider alternatives
BW> until a solution is reached that both parties can deal with.  There
BW> are men whose idea of a partner is someone to share with, and that
BW> includes positive and negatives, housework, childcare, decision
BW> making, and income acquisition.  There are men, in other words, who
BW> want, and are equal partners in a relationship.

BW> Unfortunately, it's been my observation that such men are relatively
BW> rare.

Do not doubt for a minute, however, that there are those who feel that
finding such a *woman* is not at all easy, either.

Will
---
 * SLMR 2.1a * Eric Lindros /Lin-droce/ adj (92):JERK,LOSER,GEEK
From: gazit@duke.cs.duke.edu (Hillel Gazit)
Newsgroups: soc.women
Subject: Re: Right To Not Support
Date: 30 Jul 92 09:20:03 GMT
Reply-To: gazit@cs.duke.edu (Hillel)
Organization: Living In Harmony

In article <1992Jul29.202120.12921@leland.Stanford.EDU> 
repnomar@leland.Stanford.EDU (Janet M. Lafler) writes:
>Mainly what I meant is that if people are going to have sex and don't want
>to have children, they should a) both take responsibility for using birth
>control, b) talk honestly about what they plan to do in case of an unplanned 
>pregnancy *before* they begin a sexual relationship, c) stick to what they 
>have said they would do if such a thing does occur.  And d) if either one 
>can't live with what the other would do should the woman get pregnant, not 
>have sex together.  

You tend to forget that we live in a culture where a woman who says 
"I changed my mind; I just can't have an abortion." gets a lot of
support from pro-life and feminists who praise her maternal instincts.

You also tend to forget that the laws let her take him to the
cleaners because the poor weak (but morally strong...) woman
should have the legal right to force others to pay for her ideals.

You also tend to forget that there is strong feminists' support in
sending the FBI after him, no matter what she promised...
Newsgroups: soc.women
Subject: Re: RU-486 volunteer
From: rivero@mdcbbs.com
Date: 29 Jul 92 15:09:21 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Electronic Data Systems, Unigraphics Division, Cypress CA
Nntp-Posting-User: rivero

In article <1992Jul27.065024.173@news.wesleyan.edu>, RGINZBERG@eagle.wesleyan.edu (Ruth Ginzberg) writes:
> 
> Seriously:  Whatever makes you think that only people who are "sleeping around"
> need abortions?  Among folks I know who've had abortions, I'd say that an equal
> number to those who were unmarried, is the number who were married to the
> insemenator.
> 

  Here here! :)


<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
|  Michael Rivero rivero@mdcbbs.com  Middle-Aged Mutant Ninja Animator   |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
|  You know, Australia's outback is lookin' better and better every day! |
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Newsgroups: soc.women
From: jjj@mits.mdata.fi (Joni Jarvenkyla)
Subject: Re: Feminist Perspective of Batman Returns
Keywords: Batman, feminist, confusion, symbolic, movie
Organization: Microdata Oy, Helsinki, Finland
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 19:05:10 GMT

In article <poznikof.711851264@sfu.ca> poznikof@fraser.sfu.ca (Kenneth Shane Poznikoff) writes:
>That is what confuses me.  When I look at certain scenes,
>I see some progressive notions, for example woman being
>equal to man.  When at other sceens, or if I look at the same 
>scenes in a different light, I see very negative, reactionary 
>notions, for example, the psychotic nature of (Cat)woman.
>
>What do you think?

I think that you're taking the film 900% too seriously.

In my opinion the film is meant to work only in its own context and not
to relate to the real world. God, it's FANTASY! The "stupid lines and
acts" are meant to be FUNNY because they're so goddamn stupid that
nobody's expected to take them seriously, well, uhm, except you.

There are finer nyances in the movie too, but as it most probably was
aimed to be a super success it has to be a whole bunch of a mix-up of
different styles (each to their own; fantasy-people, techno-dweeb boys,
social drama, question of identity etc).

If you want to analyze man-woman relationships, by God go and see a
movie which has been made for this, and not some "Batman"!!!

I smell that you know your feminism well but are not much of a movie
critic.

-- 
jjj@mits.mdata.fi             Kirjoitatko sin{ n{it{ ihan selvin p{in?
jjj@niksula.hut.fi                          -Petteri J{rvinen
From: rawdon@cabrales.cs.wisc.edu (Michael Rawdon)
Newsgroups: soc.women
Subject: Re: Right To Not Support
Date: 29 Jul 92 02:40:35 GMT
Reply-To: rawdon@cabrales.cs.wisc.edu
Organization: University of Wisconsin Computer Sciences Dept., Madison, WI

In <1992Jul28.181317.24582@leland.Stanford.EDU> repnomar@leland.Stanford.EDU (Janet M. Lafler) writes:
>I don't believe in blaming either women or men for the fact that unintended
>pregnancies sometimes occur.  I *do* think it's important to encourage both
>parties to act responsibly.

Define "responsibly", and explain why it is a good thing for those parties to
act responsibly.

-- 
Michael Rawdon
rawdon@cabrales.cs.wisc.edu
University of Wisconsin Computer Sciences Department, Madison, WI

"All we do is live and die."
			- Men Without Hats
From: mmhemsi@isrc.sandia.gov (Michelle M. Hemsing)
Newsgroups: soc.women
Subject: Doing Research on Divorces
Date: 31 Jul 92 14:34:29 GMT
Organization: Sandia National Labs, Org. 1600, Albq., NM

I am a college student writing an English research paper
about the effects of a divorce on an individual (whether
they are the husband, wife, children, relative, etc.)  I am
interested in the negative effects as well as the positive
ones (if there are any).  

Please respond as soon as you can, and I would appreciate
it if you could give me some background information. 
For example:
	Were you a child of a divorce?
	How old were you?
	How does it effect you today?
	What is your outlook on marriage before and after
the divorce?
Any comments are welcome.  Thank you.

Sincerely Michelle
Newsgroups: soc.women,talk.abortion,sci.med
From: mprc@troi.cc.rochester.edu (M. Price)
Subject: Re: Ancient Methods of Birth Control
Organization: University of Rochester - Rochester, New York
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 16:24:58 GMT

In <1992Jul28.125840.8994@news.columbia.edu> stone@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Glenn Stone) writes:

>Now I always thought that 

>in days of old,
>when knights were bold
>and rubbers weren't invented,
>they just wrapped socks
>around their cocks
>and babies were prevented.

     Interesting. I was always told that
in days of old
when knights were bold
and paper wasn't invented,
they wiped their arse
in bits of grass
and went away contented.

     Of course, the history books have been updated since then...

                                                       MP

Newsgroups: soc.women