HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jontom@HQ.Ileaf.COM (J.T. Kittredge)
Subject: Re: long-term relationships...success stories, please...
In-reply-to: bcapps@agora.rain.com's message of 26 Dec 92 17:57:40 GMT
Posting-Front-End: GNU Emacs 18.52.65 of Mon Apr 22 1991 on kontrol (berkeley-unix)
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 92 20:41:14 GMT

In article <BzvoK4.537@agora.rain.com> bcapps@agora.rain.com (Brent Capps) writes:
>>In article <1992Dec17.022140.21531@serval.net.wsu.edu> gerkman@binky.csc.wsu.edu (Joseph M. Gerkman) writes:

>>   ...I kinda want to hear some success stories of long-lasting 
>>   relationships...

>I didn't reply to this at first because I didn't consider 8 years to
>be that long-term -- 5 year, 7 year, 10 year relationships are quite 
>common within our circle of friends.  We once lived upstairs from a 
>couple who had been together 18 years.  I guess I'd consider anything 
>over about 15 years to be long term.

I share Joseph's interest in this subject; I'm very interested in
knowing long term same sex couples because they provide important role
models and examples of the uncelebrated, quiet riches of "Life with
Motss" 

I just started reading a biography of the actress Sarah Bernhardt
("The Divine Sarah" by Gold and Fizdale). My interest in this book was
piqued when I read (in the NYT) that the authors are two men who were
a couple (and a well known piano duo) for forty years until one of
them died shortly before finishing the book.

When I was in college (U Chicago, AB '80), there were two professors,
Howard and Roger, who hosted regular parties for the gay community on
campus. They had been together for over thirty years at that point.

I was rather surprised to not see responses from some of the
Motsketeers I know who have been racking up those years of connubial
domesticity. I suppose I should let them speak for themselves. How
about guys? Maybe the frequent poster who is nearing his twentieth
anniversary, R of R & J, will speak up (and tell us the story again
how the two of you met)? Maybe the frequent poster who by my count is
at about fourteen year or so, S of S & T, will give us his
testimonial?

Here are some non-Motsser couples I know:

 Barb & Barb --		20 years
 Kevin & Richie --      18 years
 Bob & John --		15 years
 Terry & Jack --	10 years

 (I confess, I know many more male couples than female)

I also know many more couples in the five to nine year range who seem
to be in for the long haul.

When I read Larry Kramer lately saying that gay men are very good at
finding love, I thought to myself, "You've been hanging out with the
wrong crowd, boy."

Yours in Motss, JonTom



-- 
"I feel, my dear boy, my arm around you. I feel the pulsation,
 thereby, as it were, of your excellent future and your admirable
 endowment" -- Heny James to his protoge' Henrik Anderson
               (as quoted by Fred Kaplan)
From: owen@autodesk.com (D. Owen Rowley)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Soc.Motss.* / Automoderation.
Date: 21 Dec 92 19:51:29 GMT
Followup-To: soc.motss

In article <1h0dpbINNfp@smurf.sti.com>, dgreen@smurf.sti.com (Dan R. Greening) writes:
> [Jess (Anderson), Bob Donahue, Robert Coren, and Paul Asente suggest 
>  automoderation to get rid of most anti-gay traffic in soc.motss, limiting to 
>  NON cross-posted articles.]
> 
> Hi there, oldtimers!

Hi Dan :-)

> I proposed an experiment about a year and a half ago, that we create an
> automoderated "soc.lesbiangay" or something similar.  I suggested limiting 
> authors to one post per day then.  It went down in flames.  My rule was too
> arbitrary.

I still think limiting the number of posts to one per day is not a good
idea.

> I love the suggested "no crossposts" rule, and it seems to
> have almost universal support.  It is ingenious for its intended goal.

I agree with this too.

> If you all decide to create a group which has this no-crossposts 
> automoderator, name the group something blatent, like "soc.lesbiangay".  
> The only reason "soc.motss" has attracted casual gay/lesbian readers is 
> because of cross-posts.  Soc.motss has an impossibly baroque and closeted 
> name.  If you disallow cross-posts, you must create the new group with an 
> obvious name.

yes, definitly. I also think this is important for just the reason Dan
spells out.

> I suggest it be viewed as an experiment, with some flexibility in 
> determining which rules to apply.  There ought to be a ".rejected"
> group for interested meta-moderators, so they can evaluate what is being 
> rejected.  Another advantage of a ".rejected" newsgroup is that no one can
> claim they are not getting a forum, since some people will read both.
> Furthermore problems with the moderation rules will be apparent to all.
> If the "rejected" group ends up getting lots of good articles, readers will 
> quickly complain.

yup .


LUX ./. owen
--
D. Owen Rowley {uunet,fernwood,sun}!autodesk!owen

  " It will be a cold March 17th that I celebrate the imposition of
	Romes rule, on Pagan Ireland. Erin go ppphhhhhttttttt! "
From: rizzoe@FASECON.ECON.NYU.EDU (Emily Rizzo)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: NYC extends housing rights to gays
Date: 23 Dec 92 16:36:04 GMT
Organization: New York University


Just heard on the radio that the New York City Human Rights Commission has 
extended the right to inherit rental apartments to same sex partners. 
This has implications beyond the obvious one that surviving partners will no 
longer be evicted if their names are not on the lease.  NYC has a small pool 
of rent controlled apartments which are priced considerably below market; 
these apartments are valuable enough to be battled over in divorces and 
inheritance disputes; these too will now be covered.  

Just another small step in the right direction.

And happy holiday of your choice to all,

Emily (about to sign off til Jan. 4th)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: kfj@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Kirk Johanning)
Subject: Re: gay-positive soap opera character
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 19:27:14 GMT
Organization: HP Response Center Atlanta

In <BzztoI.A40@queernet.org> rogerk@queernet.org (Roger B.A. Klorese) writes:

>In article <JPT.92Dec28174934@telecaster.think.com> jpt@telecaster.think.com (James P. Taylor) writes:
>>I have struggled with this post basically cuz I have to admit to having had
>>an afternoon network soap on my tv.

>Around our house, I can blame it on my boyfriend.  ;-)

Well, IMHO, the only real way to watch a soap is to tape it during the
week and then on the weekend breeze through all 5 hour-long episodes
in about 3 1/2 hours.

>>But, I was channel hopping and I was
>>attracted by a very handsome late teenager. He was being complimented by
>>another teenager who said [and I paraphrase] "gee.. it must have been tough
>>telling everyone you were gay last year [?].  I really respect you for
>>doing it."  The other lad says "It wasn't so hard.  Most people didn't
>>react too badly. My father still doesn't totally accept it."  The original
>>fellow says "My dad took it badly too."  [Light bulb pops above head of the
>>person who was being complimented for coming out.  This guy is gay too.]
>>Scene changes to something.  I switch channels.
>>
>>I think the soap was on ABC and around 14:00 EST.  Anyone know the soap??

>It's "One Life to Live."  I'm pretty impressed too.  They did a
>major plot involving the blond kid, Billy Douglas, coming out last
>summer, and I was afraid they'd finish it up and let him fade away,
>but they haven't. (The summer plot interleaved with an AIDS/Names
>Project plot, but scrupulously avoided the "gay == AIDS" thing
>while pointing out we'd carried the brunt of the pain.)

>I was even more amazed they did this particular scene, especially
>if any sort of romance, even subtle and off-camera, is in the
>offing: the (het) actor who plays Billy said he didn't know how
>he'd handle it if they went off in that direction.

I remember seeing an interview of Ryan Phillippe (Billy Douglas) on
Entertainment Tonight a while back, right as he was telling the local
priest that he was gay, in which he claimed to have had some internal
struggle about portraying a gay character but that he had basically
come to terms with it and it would be ok to do this.

That interview basically got me interested in "One Life to Life".
The fact that they were going to do a gay-positive story of a teen and
that this teen was absolutley CUTE has made me set my VCR to tape the
show every day since then.

I do hope that the writers have a little romance planned for Billy.
The other character in the above mentioned conversation, Rick Mitchell,
is also pretty cute.  The way that he was looking at Billy makes me
hopeful that this is just what they are planning on doing ;-)
-- 
______  Kirk Johanning              ______  The opinions expressed above  ______
\    /  Hewlett-Packard             \    /  are mine and may not reflect  \    /
 \  /   Response Center - Atlanta    \  /   those my employer or anybody   \  /
  \/    kfj@hpuerca.atl.hp.com        \/    else for that matter.           \/
From: pauli@sgi.com (Paul Isaacs)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Hispanic Journalists to Meet in Colorado
Date: 30 Dec 1992 18:51:35 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics
NNTP-Posting-Host: uniblab.asd.sgi.com

In article <30DEC92.15212472@enh.nist.gov> aberson@enh.nist.gov writes:
>>"We should >>not be pressured into taking a political stance," Ms. Duarte
>>said.  "I don't think I have ever recalled gays taking a
>>stand on Hispanic issues."
>
>And why should we?  Hispanic issues are not gay issues.  When we march in
>Washington, it's only for gay issues, nothing else!  How dare they ask
>for minority solidarity in this day and age!
>
>[insert smilie here]

And I guess Ms. Duarte never went to an ACTUP meeting in New York.
Last time I was there (okay, it was 1990) they seemed to be thinking a whole
lot about Hispanic issues. Every fact sheet and every poster had to have 
both English and Spanish versions, or it wouldn't get done.  There was at 
least one committee dealing solely with Hispanic issues. And ACTUP also
sent a group down to Puerto Rico to do some protesting and help the people
down there get going with their own direct action group.


pauli.

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: tam@mobydick.leis.bellcore.com (Tom Merkel )
Subject: Re: Congratulating (het) parents on their new baby
Followup-To: soc.motss
Reply-To: tam@westmark.com (Tom Merkel )
Organization: Bellcore
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 92 13:45:11 GMT

In article <Bzo2DH.DFx@cs.columbia.edu>, 
ji@cs.columbia.edu (John Ioannidis) writes:
|> Every once in a while I'll read on the local bboards in the places I
|> have accounts at, that Mr&Mrs so-and-so had a brand new baby, vital
|> statistics of the baby follow, and the message ends with how the
|> father is proud and the mother is resting at the hospital. The message
|> is invariably congratulatory.
|> 
|> So here are my questions:
|> 
|> 1. Is it a het thing, and I just don't understand?

In my experience,  it is all the friends and relatives who make
a big deal of a birth.  With respect to the swelling nuclear family
it is more likely that the proud father is home sleeping after being 
awake for 30 hours,  that the radiant mom is actually stoned on 
demerol and won't rejoin us for a day,  and all the relatives are
pushing and shoving at the viewing room window.  The newborn child is
oblivious to all of this.

Having been through this process twice myself,  I say let them enjoy
whatever little pleasures they can,  because they have *years* of toil 
and sleepless nights ahead of them...

--Tom Merkel tam@westmark.com
From: dauber@tattoo.mti.sgi.com (Jeff Dauber)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Uninformed :)
Date: 31 Dec 92 17:04:34 GMT
Reply-To: dauber@tattoo.mti.sgi.com (Jeff Dauber)
Organization: sgi
NNTP-Posting-Host: tattoo.mti.sgi.com

In article <168CE204E.00112716@ysub.ysu.edu>, 00112716@ysub.ysu.edu writes:


|>    I have just started reading soc.motss and would like it if someone would
|> please post/mail me translations for bear, smurf, etc. codes so I will know
|> where I stand and can understand what others mean.

Remember: Ignorance is bliss.


FWA
From: 00daspeakman@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu (David Speakman, Ball State University)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: How did you find soc.motss?
Date: 21 Dec 92 19:33:40 GMT
Organization: Ball State University, Muncie, In - Univ. Computing Svc's

In article <1992Dec20.231739.8064@reed.edu>, nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:
> How did you discover soc.motss? Did you find it at the same time you
> found Usenet, or later?
> 

I found motss about 6 months of using the net. It was a cross osting to
talk.politics and a subsequent "move gay issues to soc.motss" request that
got me here.

Let's bring motss out of the closet. CHANGE THE NAME.

David
From: aberson@enh.nist.gov
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: RE: "cures" for homosexuality
Date: 30 Dec 92 20:56:58 GMT
Organization: NIST

In a previous article, thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance) wrote:
> 
>John 'Jesus is my pleasure nub' Dorrance

Ooh!  Thanks!

Sim Aberson   Ft. Lauderdale, FL   aberson@ocean.dnet.nasa.gov
"Home is where your roof landed" - t-shirt seen in Miami
"We Will Rebuild (tm)" - majority community response to Andrew
"We Will Redecorate" - gay community response to Andrew
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Mike Reaser)
Subject: Re: EE statements (was: Re: Attention Skiers Boycotting Colorado)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 23:16:07 GMT
Organization: a stone mountain of Kudzu

In <1ht9pgINNn77@spim.mti.sgi.com> dauber@tattoo.mti.sgi.com (Jeff Dauber) writes:

>In article <1ht8mdINN79g@hp-col.col.hp.com>, smithw@col.hp.com (Walter Smith) writes:

>|> I agree that you should be able to seek relief in the court system.  But 
>|> I find so much of the rest to be hysteria.  How many examples can you 
>|> refer to where companies have violated their own EE policies?  

>Let's see... I know of many cases at San Francisco General Hospital where
>it has been violated.  I know of cases at HP and IBM where people are having
>problems.  I can come up with a lot of places where people had to invoke
>the policy.  It happens all the time.

>Why would this surprise you?

Because it's easier to deny it happens if you have your head up 
your ... I mean, have your head in the sand.

Drop into ostrich mode -- if you can't see it, it won't touch you.

>FWA

--
=======================================================================
 Mike Reaser, Hewlett-Packard N. Amer. Response Center - Atlanta
 Internet:  mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com
 NBCS: B5 f t w g+ k s              I barely speak for myself, so
 #include <standard.disclaimer>       don't make me speak for HP
=======================================================================
From: dise@decoy.uoregon.edu (David Casti)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: EE statements (was: Re: Attention Skiers Boycotting Colorado)
Date: 3 Jan 93 18:41:55 GMT
Reply-To: dise@decoy.uoregon.edu
Organization: University of Oregon Network Services
NNTP-Posting-Host: cisco-ts2-line27.uoregon.edu

In article <1ht8mdINN79g@hp-col.col.hp.com> smithw@col.hp.com (Walter Smith)  
writes:
> I find so much of the rest to be hysteria.  How many examples can you 
> refer to where companies have violated their own EE policies?  

My husband was fired July 31, 1992 by Tektronix in a rather flagrant violation  
of their own EE policy.  To date, they've offered four different  
"explanations" for the termination (including sexual orientation), none of  
which held up under the scrutiny of the unemployment folks in Oregon.

He's filing a complaint with the Bureau of Labor and Industries, but since  
Oregon has no civil rights protections for gay folk, it's pretty much a dead  
issue.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jay@banzai.PCC.COM (Jay Schuster)
Subject: Ski Vermont
Summary: VT Ski Assoc looking to take advantage of boycott
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 03:48:44 GMT
Organization: The People's Computer Company, Williston, VT

My housemate got a call the other day from the Vermont Ski Association,
to chat about how they might take advantage of the Colorado boycott.

After all, Vermont is the largest ski state with a G/L
nondiscrimination law.

We had a good chuckle about what some of our conservative opponents
to the law would think of that.  At one of the hearings, state rep
Howrigan said loud enough for the press to hear, but not loud enough to
be picked up by the mike: ``We don't want Vermont to become a
state of cornholers.''

We then thought about how we could do like Czechoslovakia (where
my housemate recently traveled): due to a shortage of hotels,
visitors often stay in the homes of private citizens who rent out
spare rooms.

Make a friend in Vermont, and ski too!  Or something like that.
-- 
Jay Schuster <jay@pcc.COM>	uunet!uvm-gen!banzai!jay, attmail!banzai!jay
The People's Computer Company	`Revolutionary Programming'
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anthropo@carina.unm.edu (Dominick V. Zurlo)
Subject: Re: Last night on television
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 20:31:03 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

In article <1992Dec22.174504.24772@panix.com> mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik) writes:
>My favorite part:  the panty-hose fishnet.  Both when they
>set it up and when it works.

Don't forget the bra they used in Operation Petticoat in the sub's 
engineering section... One of my favorite scenes of the movie..

Dominick

******************************************************************
*  Flapjack                         *    "Yes, I'm bi, -         *
*  B7/8 f+ w (c+d)v g++ k+(+)v
*             s(-/+)v m e r(=)      *     both top and bottom."  *
*******************************************************************

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: endora@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Ken McCamish)
Subject: Re: Homos in the bible
Keywords: bible
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 02:06:49 GMT

In article <Bzzqx8.CH@exnet.co.uk> s0xjg@exnet.co.uk (Xavier Gallagher) writes:
>In article <BzuGu9.IF5@agora.rain.com> taurus@agora.rain.com (Scott Burch) writes:
>>I was reading a book recently that stated that there was some biblical
>>scripture that mentioned the posibliity of David being gay.  Does anyone
>>know of any gay bible characters, or support for the theory that David was
>>gay.  I would be interested in any leads that I can get.  
>
>>****** Practice random senseless acts of kindness ******
>
>
>Jesus was, ofcourse, gay.  Afterall what would *you* do with 12 men
>of your own choice in a desert for three years?
>
>Indeed, which 12 men would you choose?  Lets see...
>
>Xave.
>
>

Well, Xave, IMHO:

	1) Matthew Broderick
	2) Steve Hammond (For weekends)
	3) Marky Mark (Obviously)
	4) Any Soloflex dude
	5) Wil Wheaton (for picnics)
	6) Al Gore (He's kind of cute, and he has power.)
	7) Scott Bakula
	8) My boyfriend (because he's going to read this, I'll bet:-)
	9) Tony Danza (still looks good and not so stupid with mouth closed)
       10) David Spade from SNL (He needs it and he's cute.)
       11) Michael J. Fox 
       12) Purdue President Steven Beering (my gift to PU - get him out of
             here before the campus collapses under the weight of
             conservatism.)

-Kenetha Rae, condom wearer

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rogerk@QueerNet.ORG (Roger B.A. Klorese)
Subject: Re: Liberty (was something relevant about CO-2 long ago...)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 15:34:08 GMT
Organization: QueerNet

In article <rizzoe.602.725062656@FASECON.ECON.NYU.EDU>,
rizzoe@FASECON.ECON.NYU.EDU (Emily Rizzo) writes:
|> Read Arthur Fricke's delightful "Confessions of a Rock Lobster" (or maybe 
|> "Memoirs of..." can't remember which)...

"Reflections."  Then again, "Aaron."

-- 
ROGER B.A. KLORESE                                              +1 415 ALL-ARFF
rogerk@unpc.QueerNet.ORG              {ames,decwrl,pyramid}!sgiblab!unpc!rogerk
"Normal is not something to aspire to, it's something to get away from."
                                                                   -- J. Foster
From: an104@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ric Helton)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: GLAAD: Liz Smith, gay-positive columnist
Date: 30 Dec 1992 01:27:02 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: an104@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ric Helton)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu



LIZ SMITH: ON THE BARRICADES

If you've been reading Liz Smith's syndicated column recently,
you know she hasn't missed an opportunity to lambast homophobes,
praise lesbian and gay causes, report gay-related media develop-
ments (including several items on Gus Van Sant's upcoming Harvey
Milk film), quote relentlessly from _The Advocate_, support
safer-sex education and promote numerous AIDS fund-raisers.

In a standout column on the lesbian-activist daughter if Robert
Mosbaucher (George Bush's chief fundraiser) Liz said, "Forget
that Diane Mosbaucher is gay. Just try considering her as a human
being, and you'll see how admirably she comes off... against the
gay-bashing of a Republican heirarchy headed by her famous
father."

To accknowledge her efforts, drop a note to:

        Liz Smith
        New York Newsday
        2 Park Avenue
        New York, NY 10016
From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: The Boycott, and Colorado Happenings
Date: 31 Dec 92 20:00:41 GMT
Organization: insert anything here

bcapps@agora.rain.com (Brent Capps) writes:
>kpm@druhi.ATT.COM (Kevin Malloy (DoD #106)) writes:
>>The Colorado lesbian and gay community is in chaos.  There has been
>>lots of finger pointing, and blameing, mostly at the main organization
>>that fought Amendment 2, EPOColorado.  

>*sigh* all throughout the election and its aftermath I kept seeing
>history repeat itself; CO2, and the local gay community's reaction
>to it, reminds me of what happened in the Oregon gay community as
>a response to the OCA's first anti-gay success, Measure 8 (1988).
>In short: we were complaisent, we got suprised on election day,
>we spent a lot of energy afterwards pointing fingers at each other.

>There's just one thought I'd like to leave you with.  Remember,
>neither EPOCColorado nor the people in the community opposing 
>the boycott nor the people favoring it are to blame for this mess.
>The HOMOPHOBES are to blame.  Don't let them off easy by shifting
>responsibility to others in the gay community because we couldn't
>stop them this time.

	YES!  That's another reason why I'm annoyed at the
anti-boycotters, etc.  CO:@ didn't spontaneously generate itself,
it was created and carried through by a set of individuals.
Those individuals essentially lied to the general populace.
Why isn't more being done to shed light on this?

	For example --- nice company X is losing $Y because of the
boycott.  Instead of pointing the fingers at us who are only speaking
withour pocketbooks, why aren't they complaining to the CFV orgs
for putting this in, and demanding that they recoup the money from
their "myraids of supposed supporters"?  Granted that opens the
doors for CO to become Xian nightmare from hell, but at least that's
$$$ that won't be used to light 49 other pyres...  Besides, as we
all know, "Xian" groups rarely if ever part with the $$$ they collected
and don;'t tend to give much to communities unless it suits their
agenda...  I think that if a lot of people started holding the CFV
responsible for the boycott (since it is) things might move faster
and with the message that any state would be VERY foolish to attempt
a CO:@ in 1993-4.

BBC
Newsgroups: soc.motss