HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bemj1@cl.cam.ac.uk (Bernie Jones)
Subject: Re: Different Newspapers ...
Reply-To: Bernie.Jones@cl.cam.ac.uk
Organization: U of Cambridge Comp Lab, UK
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 09:07:14 GMT

In article <D84WB15Z@cc.swarthmore.edu> ment@cs.swarthmore.edu (Andrew Ment) writes:
>
>On the topic of newspapers, I've just recently returned from Britain, to
>the U.S. and I have to say that I was singularly disappointed with the 
>newspapers there.  I'm not speaking of the daily record, but the 
>"quality" papers like the independent and the times.
>
>First of all they're damned expensive.  As a student it was hard to justify
>spending 45 pence for a paper when I was trying to spend 75 on my tea.
>
>Second of all, the newspapers in the world's most international city
>were singularly absorbed with domestic news.  Reading the independent,
>which I was told was the best but now I would prefer the Guardian, one
>gets a large amount of information about what has happened in the past
>day in the UK.  For the past two weeks the press complaint's commission
>got pretty much the main focus.  (I know that they're self-interested, but
>it is not as if the rest of the world took a nap, big things were happening
>in Bosnia and Iraq!).  Almost never is there a decent background piece on
>other, less prominent, parts of the world.
>
>I understand complaints that the New York Times is bulky, difficult to
>read on the subway because you have to turn pages, ... But damn it
>I much prefer it.  If you read the NYT cover to cover for a week you'll
>have a pretty good grip on what's happening in the world, and WHY.  In
>Britain, or other parts of the U.S. you're pretty much left with the 
>Economist as the only news source that puts a large amount of information
>in context.
>

What??? FOREIGN news - there's no such thing, old chap. Anything that
hasn't happened _in_ or _with_ Britain obviously isn't important in the
greater scheme of things, and hence is not worth devoting time and space
to report!

The (vocal) majority of Brits simply aren't interested in anything that's
happened outside the country - it's been like that for years and will
continue to be like that. A while back the BBC tried to make their news
more international (and it's pretty good now) but they got letters of
complaint whose gist was: "What do you think you're doing showing all
this foreign business when theres such alot of weather happening over
here (this was the time when GB suddenly got rather windy, and trees
and buildings were falling over)." The result was that due to viewer
pressure they had to cut down foreign coverage (of fairly important
stuff) and do lots of reports about trees falling over.

CHanging the subject from the above, if you reckon the quality papers
are expensive over here, how much does the NYT cost then?

Bernie
From: jaskew@spam.ua.oz (Joseph Askew)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Britain and HK
Summary: We do son
Date: 26 Jan 93 01:16:26 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.british
Distribution: world
Organization: Statistics, Pure & Applied Mathematics, University of Adelaide

In article <1jp8p2INN1n5@bnsgd245.bnr.co.uk> bocmunro@bnr.co.uk (Bruce Munro) writes:
>In article <1jgi0kINNb0@network.ucsd.edu> fledgist@weber.ucsd.edu (Fragano Ledgister) writes:
>>In article <1jerh5INN2q7@grapevine.EBay.Sun.COM> martin.baines@uk.sun.com writes:

>>>>* What are the UK colonies left after HK is given back to China?

>>>Caymen Islands

>>That's Cayman Islands, please!

Surely it should be 'Cayperson Islands' (ducks for cover after making the
worst joke on s.c.b for the last decade - excepting DSY and Holwhatshisname)

>>>Anguila

>>Two ells, please.

And I thought an ell was a length of cloth!

>>Also, the British Indian Ocean Territory, the British Antarctic
>>Territory, Montserrat, the Turks and Caicos Islands, Pitcairn
>>Island, Ascension and Tristan da Cunha, and a couple of rocks in the
>>Pacific.

Note that the British Antarctic Territory claim is disputed by Chile
and our old favourite Argentina. Britain and the others are bound by
treaty not to press any claim for such territory. This is widely thought
to be because the US doesn't have any historic grounds for a claim (unlike
Britain Chile etc whose claims exist and are merely pathetically weak)
and doesn't want anyone else to get their hands on it :-)

>You sure about Pitcairn Island? I thought it was administered by New
>Zealand these days. Talking about Pitcairn, who owns Norfolk Island,
>where many of the mutineers descendents ended up, these days?

We have it! It has been the centre of some controversy lately (hard as
that is to imagine) as it has been moved under the adminstrative area
of New South Wales. Apparently all the locals don't like it.


Joseph Askew


-- 
Joseph Askew, Gauche and Proud  Barbarian horns draw out the northern wind;
jaskew@spam.maths.adelaide.edu  Paler than water lies the Thistle Pass;
Disclaimer? Sue, see if I care  Sky swallows up the road to Kokonor;
One China One Korea One Eire32  Moonlight, a thousand miles along the Wall.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: jackson@soldev.tti.com (Dick Jackson)
Subject: Re: American humo(u)r (was Re: Studying Me
Organization: Transaction Technology Inc.
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 19:48:22 GMT

In article <4015@wyse.wyse.com> jmunro@wyse.wyse.com (Jim Munro x2497) writes:
>In article <1jek0uINN9ba@curie.lif.icnet.uk> pt@curie.lif.icnet.uk (Paul Taylor <pt@acl.icnet.uk>) writes:
>>
>>If my memory serves me right the figure for Los Angeles, quoted by a net user earlier on in this debate, is: 2500

>2500 seems a little high, I'd guess you've got one too many zeros.

The number of gang related murders for Los Angeles county in 1992 was just
published -- it was just over 800.  LA County is a huge area and has a
population of many millions, maybe as many as ten.  But the area affected
by gang murders is a small percentage of the total, as is the population
directly affected. The article giving these numbers did not say how many
other murders there were.

Why do Americans trample on our group with non-British information like
this?  Why do I aid and abet them?

Dick
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: hillyer@rrc.chevron.com (Martin J. Hillyer,50-1267,(510)242-3123)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: seperate hot and cold water taps in th
Date: 24 Jan 93 01:27:18 GMT
Reply-To: hillyer@rrc.chevron.com
Organization: Chevron, Richmond, California

In article 24088@hemlock.cray.com, trk@palm15.cray.com (Tim Kirby) writes:
>"Nadine Smith" (nmsmith@sunflower.bio.indiana.edu) wrote:
>: 
>: 	Could someone please tell a confused American (no jokes, please!)
>: 	why the hot and cold water taps are seperate in the UK?
>: 	And why if there is only one faucet is the hot and cold
>: 	water kept seperate until it comes out of the tap? 
>
---stuff deleted----
 ... I suspect there may be a connection (sic) with the fact
>that a tap in a house in the UK may be supplied from either
>
>(1) The main (more good stuff deleted) 
>or
>
>(2) From a storage tank in the (roof/loft/attic/whatever). The tank in the roof
>    would be fed by the main via a ballcock (automatic valve that opens when
>    the water level drops). This supply would be used to feed the hot water
>    tank and usually the other taps in the bathroom. Because the water could
>    be standing for a long time and all sorts of horrible contaminants could
>    get into it (dead mice, perhaps ?) this water is not considered drinkable
>    (I always wondered why Mum said not to drink from the bathroom tap ;-)
>    Since the hot water comes from this supply, it is kept separate from the
>    mains supply all the time - presumably to keep whatever nasty things that
>    might be in the hot water from contaminating the drinking water.
---more stuff deleted---
>Tim
>
I am sure this is the correct explanation - in fact my mother used to tell me that they
indeed found a mouse in the attic tank once.   This attic tank had a gravity feed to a
copper tank in the 'airing cupboard' , a closet where a big copper hot water tank was
located; this hot water tank was connected via two pipes to the stove in the kitchen
 on the ground floor below.  The stove heated water which rose by convection, and thus
 maintained circulation of hot water all the time when the stove was lit.  It was hard
 to get a hot bath during a heat wave (i.e., any temp above 75F).

The only disadvantage to this system came during the war, when a V-1 fell about a
block away from our house.  After the sound of the bomb exploding, then the crash of
glass as most of our windows were shattered (except the leaded lights, of course), 
came the sound of water, as the attic tank had ruptured its seams.  Quite exciting
to have a waterfall inside the house!

Martin
From: cah@cs.bham.ac.uk (Ceri Hopkins)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: london, england
Date: 26 Jan 93 14:39:31 GMT
	<C15wpw.HIC@world.std.com> <1993Jan22.121322.12693@lut.ac.uk>
Distribution: soc
Organization: School of Computer Science, University of Birmingham, UK

>>>>> On 22 Jan 93 12:13:22 GMT, R.J.Woolley@lut.ac.uk said:

Rob> In article <C15wpw.HIC@world.std.com> eac@world.std.com (Eric A Cottrell) writes:
>SEveral maps that call this section "CITY". I also noticed that regional
>names seem to be London centered, i.e. The North, The West County, etc.
>73 Eric   eac@world.std.com

Rob> As far as I'm aware, the origin of the phrase "The West Country"
Rob> comes from when Cornwall and the west were full of Britons, and
Rob> the rest of the country contained Anglo-Saxons. Can anyone
Rob> confirm this?

You are correct except, of course, it was "West Wales" -- at least on
a number historic maps I have seen. "Wales" being related to
"Walliser" -- foreign(er).

Ceri
--
Ceri Hopkins                                    
School of Computer Science                        C.A.Hopkins@Cs.Bham.Ac.Uk
University of Birmingham			  Tel. +44-21-414-3743
From: adam@castle.ed.ac.uk (Adam Hamilton)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,uk.politics
Subject: Re: Tony Benn to abolish monarchy
Date: 25 Jan 93 10:57:32 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

In article <C1EMJn.KLD@dcs.ed.ac.uk> eo@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Emma Osman) writes:
:>
:>I'm not sure of the principle of election however I know that he's against PR
:>and against any form of nominated membership.This would seem to restrict it to
:>first past the post but I can't say for sure.
:
:After the recent documentary on the House of Lords on C4 , someone-or-other
:was quoted as saying we couldn't do worse than the current lot, even if they 
:pulled people in at random from off the street.
:
:Now *there's* an idea. Pot-luck-peerage, anyone?  :-)

	Well, when we use this principle for jury service it is hailed as
democratic, judgement by one's peers (no capital P) etc.  Why not take it
one step further?
	"Dear Sir or Madam,
		You have been selected to serve a term of 1 year as legislator
for the Mumbleshire West constituency.  You may be ineligible for one of the
following reasons (judge, lawyer, policeman etc. but NOT insanity [tradition
dies hard y'know])."
From: haverkam@uni-duesseldorf.de (Wilhelm Haverkamp)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Contacts with High-Schools in Northern Ireland wanted
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 10:34:47 GMT
Organization: Universitaetsrechenzentrum, Heinrich-Heine-Universitaet Duesseldorf
NNTP-Posting-Host: haverkamp.rz.uni-duesseldorf.de

A Duesseldorf High-School class would like to come
in contact with a school in Northern Ireland to
discuss with them actual Irish problems.
The class in Duesseldorf consists of girls between
17 - 18 years; as their school has no connection
to the Internet they want to use my email-address.
If you know a High-School in Northern Ireland
which would be interested in such a discussion
via email or if you could work as a "relais"
- please let me know.
Wilhelm
From: carnahan@carson.u.washington.edu (Kerry Carnahan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: help with info on MTV Europe in britain
Date: 28 Jan 1993 01:30:43 GMT
Organization: University of Washington
NNTP-Posting-Host: carson.u.washington.edu


I'm a grad student in Seattle and am trying to write a thesis comparing
MTV news in the U.S.A. and Europe (especially Britain).  I'm looking for
two things: 1) any opinions or info that anyone may have on the way MTV is
scheduled, programmed (or anything else) in Europe, and 2) someone who'd be
willing to tape a few MTV news broadcasts and send them to me in exchange
for similar types of stuff from here.  I can get a hold of cool Seattle
music, I can tape TV shows, I can get comic books or books, whatever. 
Please let me know!

Kerry Carnahan
carnahan@u.washington.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: li@oracorp.com (Li Gong)
Subject: Re: "Not too bad"
Organization: ORA Corporation, Ithaca, New York
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 21:12:42 GMT

Jim Munro x2497 writes:
>I learned very quickly that when asked how I was, not to answer 'Not too bad'. THis
>gets interpreted as 'really ill'.  The correct answer in the US is 'Great!!'.

Isn't "Great!!" the typical and almost the only suitable answer (or
the only one you would expect to get) to ANY question in the US?
-- 
Li GONG, ORA Corporation, 301 Dates Drive, Ithaca, New York 14850, USA
  Email: li@oracorp.com   Tel: 607-277-2020        Fax: 607-277-3206
From: wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: london, england
Date: 23 Jan 93 12:29:09 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620

In article <llp785INNco@news.bbn.com>, rnewman@bbn.com (Ron Newman) writes:
> But what would you do instead?   Many US newspapers are also called
> "Times" or "Observer".   No US newspaper is called "Le Monde" or
> "La Stampa", so people don't feel the need to attach city
> names to these.

The British "Times"; the British "Observer". 
-- 

Stephen Wilcox             |   For Sale: Posts in British Government. Suit
wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk    |   outgoing American. Highest bids accepted.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: yozzo@watson.ibm.com (Ralph Yozzo)
Subject: Re: Americanisms (was Re: Back from the UK)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 14:59:55 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

In article <28566@dog.ee.lbl.gov> mike@fionn.lbl.gov (Michael Helm) writes:
>briand@tekig5.PEN.TEK.COM writes:
>>It's fun to listen to US folks try to pronounce Spanish. You see, Spanish
>
>Maybe so, but nothing tops the BBC pronunciation of Nicaragua:
>"Knicker-ague-ah".

This brings to mind a question.  When and why did the Americans
and the Brits part company in the pronunciation
of the "ary" sound at the end of words?

For example, the Brits pronounce "secretary" as "sec-RE-tree".
While American pronounce it, "sec-re-tar-e".

Also, the Brits seem to often stress the second syllable in mult-syllable
words.  While the American stressing of syllables seems to be random.
For example, Americans say "RE-search" and Brits say "re-SEARCH".


-- 
 Ralph Yozzo (yozzo@watson.ibm.com)  
 From the beautiful and historic New York State Mid-Hudson Valley.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,soc.culture.usa
From: andy@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (Andy Freeman)
Subject: Re: US and European crime rates
Organization: Computer Science Department,  Stanford University.
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 19:13:39 GMT

In article <1ja89mINNapk@lindy.Stanford.EDU> jon@lindy.Stanford.EDU
(Jon Corelis) writes:
>If America had European-style social welfare programs,
>supported by European-style progressive taxation programs, to provide
>European-style health, education, unemployment, and family leave and
>support programs, along with European-style gun control laws, then
>America would also have European-style crime rates.

Since those European-style crime rates predate the gun control laws,
it isn't clear that the gun control laws contribute to the crime
rates.  Are European criminals psychic?

I wonder which of the other factors Corelis listed happened after the
benefits he attributes to them.

-andy
--
From: yan-dicky@cs.yale.edu (Dicky Yan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: British computer companies
Date: 27 Jan 1993 10:24:22 -0500
Organization: Yale University Computer Science Dept., New Haven, CT 06520-2158
NNTP-Posting-Host: macaw.zoo.cs.yale.edu
Keywords: british computers

In article <1262@bazooka.amb.org> cbenson@bazooka.amb.org (Christopher Benson) writes:
>In order to refute a claim of a co-worker here in California, I
>would like a quick list of British computer (hardware, complete
>systems) manufacturers. This does not have to be complete, but
>lets start with ICL.  I would like a few more names please.
>
>With thanks, Chris Benson
>email or postings are fine.  I am not sure of my email address now,
>but the heading should be correct.

I think Fujitsu has a large stake in ICL. I doubt whether it should still
be considered British. Do you count PC manufacturers?

How about BBC?

Do Ferranti and GEC,  make mainframes?

Dicky.
From: jmunro@wyse.wyse.com (Jim Munro x2497)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: london, england
Date: 26 Jan 93 18:17:53 GMT
Distribution: soc
Organization: Wyse Technologies San Jose, Ca

In article <1993Jan25.111541.27130@cas.org> jac54@cas.org writes:
 >>>> California Cuisine, which is your basic Nouvelle Cuisine, but made with
 >>>> fresh ingredients year round.
 >>>
 >>>Unfortunately mixed with the no-salt, low-cholesterol, half-fat, one calorie
 >>>zero flavour other ingredients...
>>
>>Oh, I forgot, we also have good health and long life.
>>
 >
 >	Life expectancy in the U.S. is lower than that in France, where
 >	they drink vast quantities of liver toxins and eat cholesterol by
 >	the bucket.
 >
 >	Funny world isn't it?


I thought we were talking about California. There is a asubstantial difference
in 'lifestyle' between California and the rest of the US. I think you will
find the CAlifornia statistics to be better than FRance, at least for
life expectancy.

Jim Munro
From: Adrian.Waterworth@newcastle.ac.uk (Adrian Waterworth)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: 'Prejudice' (was Re: US as No. 1 (3 data books))
Date: 26 Jan 93 09:27:45 GMT
Organization: University of Newcastle upon Tyne, UK, NE1 7RU


	[ Going off at a tangent for a while... ]

geoffl@kells.demon.co.uk (Geoff Landergan) writes:

>In article <C1F01w.HG4@newcastle.ac.uk> Adrian.Waterworth@newcastle.ac.uk writes:

>>(And please note that my use of the word "prejudice" in this sense is
>>not meant to be perjorative - it is simply a suitable term to describe
>>the type of unconsciously weighted view to which I refer.)

>Then the word you are looking for is 'bias'.

	No it isn't.  The appropriate word is 'prejudice'.  As in...

'bias' n. slant; one-sided inclination; bent swaying impulse ...

'prejudice' n. bias, partiality; pre-conceived opinion ...
                                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

(Definitions taken from Collins, since my trusty OED is at home.)

	The only meaning of the word bias that gets anywhere near the
concept that I was trying to convey is "one-sided inclination" (and
that is still some way from the mark).  The word prejudice, on the
other hand, does capture the intended concept of "pre-conceived
opinion" - as the definition so clearly illustrates.

	Perhaps my use of the phrase "unconsciously weighted view"
clouded my meaning somewhat.  If that is so, please allow me to offer
my apologies.  (Although I hoped that it would have been clear from
what I was writing at the time that I was, in fact, referring to
prejudice - pure and simple.)

	An interesting note on this point (well, interesting to me
anyway) is that I even had to include the above quoted caveat in the
first place.  The negative connotations of the word prejudice seem to
have become so fixed in the public mind that to accuse someone of being
prejudiced is often interpreted as a grave insult and one has to be
careful not to give offence when using the word in everyday
conversation.  This seems strange to me, since I have yet to meet
anyone who is not prejudiced against someone or something - even if
only mildly so.  Perhaps this is another example of a word becoming
something of a linguistic 'persona non grata', so to speak, simply
as a result of accustomed usage.

				Ade.

		\----------------------------------------/
		 |  Adrian.Waterworth@newcastle.ac.uk	|
		/ ---------------------------------------\
Xref: sparky soc.culture.british:19275 soc.culture.europe:11349
From: yadallee@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Dave Shariff Yadallee)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,soc.culture.europe
Subject: NO EuroState!!
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 93 05:56:41 MST
Organization: Edmonton Remote Systems #3, Edmonton, AB, Canada

I will say again, any good Eurocrat is a dead one!!

I for one believe that Sovereign states in the EC should first and foremost
dictate there own destiny WITHOUT being bully by big Brother EuroParliament.

IMHO, let the EuroParliament have powers like the UN.  European nations are
distinct from each other, and should exercise veto power aganst ANY
EuroParliament legislation.

The fact that common Defence is part of Euro-identity disgusts me!! Does that
mean that soldiers from a number of country have to get involved in a war
which, in the historic sense, is NOT one for there concern?

Imagine the UK in Chad, or ITaly in Israel.  Revolting!!

Common currency - an infringment over nation-state sovereignty.

Now don't me wrong, I am a free-and-fair trader, but NEVER in favour of
political infringment.

Dave Shariff Yadallee (B. Sc. (Econ/Math) (U of Alberta 1990) )
 (yadallee@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca, userLIBE@mts.ucs.ualberta.ca)
God Save the Queen, God Bless us All! Remember! Jesus Saves!!
Birthdate: 29 Jan 1969, Redhill, Surrey, England, UK
From: cjackson@adobe.com (Curtis Jackson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Americanisms (was Re: Back from the UK
Date: 26 Jan 93 17:39:24 GMT
Article-I.D.: adobe.1993Jan26.173924.3418
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated, Mountain View

In article <1k3k22INN1sb@grapevine.EBay.Sun.COM> martinb@uk.sun.com writes:
}There is also a lot of the West Country accent in US English -
}especially the nasalisations, and long vowels. I have heard
}it argued that this was contributed by settlers from Devon,
}and from sailors (many of whom came from that area). No idea
}if it's true, but most people seem to believe it if you say
}it loadly enough.

*sigh* The United States spans some 3000 miles (on the continent alone)
wide and at least 2000 high. It incorporates coastal regions,
mountainous areas, vast plains, river deltas, and rolling hills.
There is not only more than one distinct accent in "US English",
there are countless accents. Like the fictitious Henry Higgins
of the Pygmalian-derived "My Fair Lady", a studied American can
easily tell the difference between someone from the northern
Atlanta, Georgia suburbs and someone from the eastern suburbs.
A half-deaf mental incompetent can tell the difference between
a person from Brooklyn, New York and a person from eastern
Pennsylvania, and those two areas are only some 60 miles apart.

We have French-influenced people living in Massachusetts who, upon
realizing that they have forgotten to bring a sweater to keep their
baby warm, will call up to the window of the house: "T'ro me down
de baby a sweater!" We have a backwoods pocket of inbred hamlets
in the Appalachian mountains who have been so isolated that they
speak what scholars believe to be almost pure authentic Elizabethan
English. We have flat midwestern accents with identifiable Swedish
influences, we have street language/culture like jive and hip-hop,
we have drawling Texans who pronounce "oil" as "earl", and "tyre"
as "tar". We have Bostonians who are incapable of pronouncing
the diphone (?) "ar" as anything but "ah", and we have *southern*
Californian valley-speak that I won't begin to attempt to characterise.

In short (not that I've already run long), Martin's first sentence
above is absurd and meaningless.
-- 
Curtis Jackson			'91 Black Lab/Blue Heeler "Studley Doright"
cjackson@mv.us.adobe.com	'92 Collie/Golden "George"
DoD #721	KotB		'91 Hawk GT	'81 Maxim 650
"I'd rather die while I'm living than live while I'm dead." -- J. Buffett