HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: arthurp@engin.umich.edu (Charles James Mitchell)
Subject: Looking for an Engine
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 17:19:44 EST
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor

Hello,
    Would anyone who can help me please e-mail to:

                arthurp@engin.umich.edu

I am posting for my father who is building a 3/4 scale
replica of the Racing plane   "Mr.  Mulligan"  He is looking
for an engine in the range of 125 hp to 160 hp.  He has been
planning on a Lycoming O-290, but would like to get a round
engine as this fits the design of the airplane better.  He is
retired so he is looking for price as well, hence the O-290 idea.

He is ready to major the engine so run out engines are a posibility.

Other engines that he would like if they can be found are
        Kinner  160 hp  R55
        Warner  145 hp

If anyone has any leads, the info would be greatly appreciated.

                                Charles J. Mitchell
                                arthurp@engin.umich.edu

Newsgroups: rec.aviation.homebuilt
From: tel@cbnews.cb.att.com (thomas.e.lester)
Subject: Re: Homebuilt certification
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 22:06:01 GMT

In article <1992Nov6.192805.12161@news.acns.nwu.edu> kkalan@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Kenneth Kalan) writes:
>Someone asked me yesterday what the certification of a homebuilt involved,
>and I checked the FAR's, but couldn't find it.  There was some info,
>but I thought there was some solo test time like 25 hours if it had a
>certified engine and somewhat greater if it did not.
>
>Could someone post the info or steer me to the correct FAR.  I was using
>the TAB/AREO 1992 AIM/FAR book.
>
	You must register the plane with the FAA (get an N number)
	Meet all FARs for your category.
		i.e. minimum instruments day VFR or
		lights, etc. for night operation

	Get it inspected by the FAA

	Fly X hours within a 25 mile radius designated test area


		X is 25 with certified engine and propellor combination
		X is 40 hours with either non- certified engine, or prop,
		or combination.

		During these hours you MAY NOT  carry any passengers
		
   FAA has many advisory circulars giving details. 

-- 
	-----------------------------------------------------------------
	Tom Lester				att!cblph!tel
	Sonerai IIL (under TEST)		(614) 860-3259
	N4LX 					(614) 927-8106
From: shauns@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Shaun Simpkins)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.homebuilt
Subject: Re: How accurate can I make a homebrew altimeter?
Date: 10 Nov 92 03:51:24 GMT
Article-I.D.: vice.10716
Organization: Tektronix Inc., Beaverton, Or.

> 
> How do standard mechanical altimeters compensate for this nonlinearity?
> 
I don't know.  an aneroid barometer registers pressure by flexing a
diaphragm.  The deflection is nonlinear, but if the diaphragm is large or
thin enough, it can be made very linear.  On the other hand, you can
purposely introduce nonlinearities in response by careful shaping of the 
diaphragm.  

> I assume you looked into putting the sensor in an oven.  Are there any
> major problems with an oven other than warm-up time?
> 
Power, power, power.  An oven would dissipate more power than the entire
electronic circuitry.  There's really no need for an oven - adequate
temperature stability can be had with purely electronic means.  Remember -
the way altimeters are used, you don't want perfect temperature stability
- you want EVERY altimeter to be wrong in the same way.  Besides, ovens
are SOOOO inelegant...and I have an analog designer's ego to maintain.

Perhaps I should dig up the Altimeter TSO.


-- 
				Shaun Simpkins
uucp:	{ucbvax,decvax,chico,pur-ee,cbosg,ihnss}!teklabs!tekcad!vice!shauns
CSnet:	shauns@tek
ARPAnet:shauns.tek@rand-relay
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.homebuilt
From: franks@synoptics.com (Frank Stutzman)
Subject: Buying partially built kits	
Keywords: kits, fly baby,I'm crazy
Reply-To: franks@synoptics.com
Organization: Synoptics Inc. Santa Clara, California.
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 00:48:24 GMT

Somebody do me a favor and tell me why I'm crazier than I think I am...

Got a call from a friend of  mine this morning who knows somebody who is 
selling a Fly Baby that is about 75% done for what sounds to be real cheap -
$2400.  The fuselage, tail feathers, engine mount and undercarriage are all done,
with all of the parts being there for everything else.  The engine is a C-65 that
has no logs and so is a complete mystery.

Can somebody fill me with horror stories about dealing with a partially built airframe
and/or an engine like this?  I am considering picking this thing up and need to be talked
out of it.  Some more information for you to use in dissuading me:

1)  I currently have no place to work on this thing, although by the beginning of the
     year I should have this taken care of.
2)  My skill with hand tools usually extends to doing myself bodily harm.
3)  While I have seen a few Fly Babies, I know nothing about their construction.  Indeed,
      I know slightly more than zip about aircraft construction in general.
4)  I already have an aircraft (part owner actually).  I really don't need another plane,
     although the Fly Baby seems to have an impossibly high fun factor.

Thanks in advance. 

Frank Stutzman          
SynOptics Communcations       |    Eagles soar, but weasels never
Santa Clara, Ca               |    get sucked into jet engines.
franks@synoptics.com          |              -- Elf Sternberg
Cessna N7770T @ PAO
From: shauns@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Shaun Simpkins)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.homebuilt
Subject: Re: Lancair Handling
Date: 6 Nov 92 18:43:24 GMT
Organization: Tektronix Inc., Beaverton, Or.

In article <Bx7MBq.Fz3@plato.ds.boeing.com>, prang@ssc-bee.uucp (Ron Wanttaja) writes:
> 
> Australias CAA have published a report by four of their test
> pilots on the handling of the Lancair 320 kitplane, which they
> say `fails to comply with some very fundamental stability 
> requirements'.
> 
> ...`the aircraft requires an increase in tail
> volume and an increase in dihedral effect ... 
> 

A small article in Sport Aviation,
focusing on the ES rollout at Oshkosh,
mentioned that the Lancair 360 now sports
a 20% larger horizontal tail area,
and that this is retrofittable to the Lancair 320.
Coincidence?

-- 
				Shaun Simpkins
uucp:	{ucbvax,decvax,chico,pur-ee,cbosg,ihnss}!teklabs!tekcad!vice!shauns
CSnet:	shauns@tek
ARPAnet:shauns.tek@rand-relay
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.homebuilt
From: ppawels@eos.ncsu.edu (PAUL  PAWELSKI)
Subject: RE: Flying Saucers
Originator: ppawels@c00578-1403br.eos.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: ppawels@eos.ncsu.edu (PAUL  PAWELSKI)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Distribution: rec
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 20:10:40 GMT


There is also another VTOL called a Skycycle.  There was an article on it in
Sport Aviation about two years ago.  I can't rember the name of the guy who
designed it, but Mont Talor was helping him with the power transfer and the
control system.  The Skycycle used three ducted fans and a single engine that
drove the fans through shafts with dry-fluid couplings (that is how Mr Talor
got involved).  If I recall correctly, at the time of the article they had 
flown it in ground effect.

Paul Pawelski
NCSU MAE Dept
(just another engineer who can't spell!)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.homebuilt
From: archie@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Archie Cobbs)
Subject: Engines
Summary: whataboutem?
Keywords: engines
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 21:50:55 GMT


Just dreaming / babbling a bit here...

OK, so I'm gonna build myself a homebuilt airplane.  What a perfect
opportunity to customize everything to my liking, from the airplane
itself (configuration, performance, utility, fun factor), to avionics,
interior, etc, etc.

I always seem to get caught on the same thing: the engine. I don't
know why, but I've just never really liked the Lycomings and
Continentals that you find in your generic rent-a-plane.

What's so bad about them?  Hmm.. first of all, compared to what's under
the hood of my car, they are from the dark ages technologically. For
example, it's really not a big deal these days to have the mixture
automatically controlled for you. But everyone knows this.

Once a mechanic friend of mine (who tends not to neglect engines)
showed me how one of the valve stems in his Lycoming decided to break.
The engine just plain ATE the valve. You should have seen the piston.
Yuck.

Also, if you want to keep your plane and engine for a long time, it
would seem like liquid-cooled would be the way to go. Less stress.

So my question is: have folks grappled with these feelings? And what
did you do about it?

Items:
	o It is acknowleged that taking an off-the-shelf auto engine
	  and converting it to airplane safety standards (eg, what
	  about dual ignition, propeller gearing, etc?) is a rather
	  difficult task.

	o The Porshe engine. Nice user-friendly "power lever", redundant
	  electrical systems, etc. A failed product. Is there no hope
	  for new products?

	o Continental Voyager liquid cooled engine. They test-ran the
	  thing for an hour with no coolant and it didn't dies. A liquid
	  cooled engine is a happier engine all around. Seems the perfect
	  thing for, say, a Glasair III. Anyone using it? Too expensive?

	o Rotaries... a topic in itself. Kindof a dark horse.

Hmm... well, maybe there's no easy solution. We'll just have to wait
for Toyota... :)  What do you think?

Archie

Newsgroups: rec.aviation.homebuilt
From: kkalan@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Kenneth Kalan)
Subject: Homebuilt certification
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 19:28:05 GMT

Someone asked me yesterday what the certification of a homebuilt involved,
and I checked the FAR's, but couldn't find it.  There was some info,
but I thought there was some solo test time like 25 hours if it had a
certified engine and somewhat greater if it did not.

Could someone post the info or steer me to the correct FAR.  I was using
the TAB/AREO 1992 AIM/FAR book.

Thanks in Advance

Ken Kalan
PP ASEL
kgk@nwu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.homebuilt
From: mark@europa.ssc.gov (Mark Hall)
Subject: Re: Wiring help needed.
Organization: Superconducting Super Collider Laboratory
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 18:11:56 GMT

|> 
|> > 3. Can I use fuses instead of circuit-breakers, and where should they be?
|> 
|> Yech, why would you want to?  The breakers should be somewhere that you
|> can get to them while still flying the plane.  Doesn't need to be overly
|> convenient.
|> 

For some items fuses are a much better choice. Avionics, for example, can
be burned out before a circuit breaker has time to kick-in. For these types
of equipment use a fast blo fuse and do keep spares.
From: ron@topaz.bds.com (Ron Natalie)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.homebuilt
Subject: Re: Wiring help needed.
Date: 6 Nov 1992 14:31:22 GMT
Organization: BDS Systems
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: topaz.bds.com

> 2. What else should I have switches for (apart from strobes on/off)?

I prefer a switch that cuts power to all the avionics in addition to the
master.  This allows the radios to be off when starting the plane without
having to kill each one individually (though it sounds like your master
will not cover the starter in the Rans).  I leave the beacon on all the
time when the master is on.

> 3. Can I use fuses instead of circuit-breakers, and where should they be?

Yech, why would you want to?  The breakers should be somewhere that you
can get to them while still flying the plane.  Doesn't need to be overly
convenient.

Newsgroups: rec.aviation.homebuilt
From: laforce@xenon.arc.nasa.gov (Soren LaForce)
Subject: Re: Mazda's Rotary Engine
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA Ames Res. Ctr. Mtn Vw CA 94035
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 15:24:00 GMT

In article <1992Nov5.132650.14706@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>, Charles.K.Scott@dartmouth.edu (Charles K. Scott) writes...
>In article <7880@transfer.stratus.com>
>spenny@sw.stratus.com (Steve Pennypacker) writes:
> 
> 
>My experience with the Mazda stopped in 1983 when I stopped doing auto
>mechanics for a living.  At that time they did not have any catalytic
>converters, they had a thermal stove which was very much like a
>catalytic converter but really wasn't.  The muffler was fully twice as
>big as anything I'd seen on other cars and weighed two or three times
>more.  I can verify from personal experience how hot the exaust gets
>:-) and technical reports put the exaust temperature several hundred
>degrees hotter than conventional exausts.
> 
>The reason for this is very simple.  A conventional 4 stroke cycle
>engine goes through two complete revolutions to complete one cycle so
>the exaust port opens every other revolution.  But the rotory engine
>has a triangular rotor and everytime the tip passes the exaust port it
>is hot with burned gas; the port never gets a chance to cool down nor
>does the exaust manifold.

I think there is something else going (in addition to the high
thermal cycling).  The conventional wisdom is that rotaries use
more fuel, consequently, I would expect the exhaust gas has been
expanded less (in the engine) and contains a good deal more heat,
since less thermal energy has been converted to kinetic within
the engine.  This would account for the higher exhaust 
temperatures.

I suspect that you will need a "beefy" exhaust system to withstand
the heat the engine is going to produce.  Or just replace it often.




--Soren            laforce@xenon.arc.nasa.gov
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.homebuilt
From: elgersma@src.honeywell.com (Mike Elgersma)
Subject: Re: Mini 500 Heli
Organization: Honeywell Systems & Research Center
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 16:26:20 GMT

In article <189.148.uupcb@pcs.sj.ca.us> paul.burnett@pcs.sj.ca.us (Paul Burnett)  writes:
>
>
>ME>(The following is from memory. They have a brochure with more details.)
>
>I don't suppose you'd have the address for that brochure?  <G>
>---

The address given in "Sport Pilot" is:

     Revolution Helicopter Corp.
     20600 SP3 E 210 Hwy.
     Liberty, MO 64068

 Phone:
       Customer service: (816) 792-1011
       Orders: 1-800-63-ROTOR

They have:
  Complete Info. Package       $15
  1/2 hour Action Video        $30
  PAL (European format) Video  $45
(Foreign orders add $10 for S/H)


The January issue of Popular Mechanics (which comes out in early December) will
have an article on the Mini-500.

Note: I have no affiliation with Revolution Helicopter, I'm just a fan.

-------------------------------
Mike Elgersma     elgersma@src.honeywell.com
---------------------------------------------------
From: dick.zeitlin%acc1bbs@ssr.com (Dick Zeitlin) 
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.homebuilt
Subject: How accurate can I make a
Date: 4 Nov 92 15:16:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Advanced Computer Concepts BBS, New Rochelle, NY 914-654-1981
Reply-To: dick.zeitlin%acc1bbs@ssr.com (Dick Zeitlin) 

JMN> .My question basically is:
   > .How accurate are airplane altimeters and how do they compensate for
   > .weather fluctuations?

They don't compensate for temperature variations.  To be certified, an
altimeter must be accurate to within 75ft. over its range.  That's with
reference to a standard atmosphere.

JMN> .Also, depending on how high we are above sea level to start with, a diffe
   > .pressure variation will be observed per metre of height increment- how
   > .do you take this into account?

Altimeters are referenced to an equivalent sea level pressure.  (The
Kollsman setting)  The linearization of the pressure vs. altitude
relationship is done by PFM.  The relationship is very close to linear,
assuming standard atmosphere.

There's a company named SenSym, locate in Sunnyvale, as I remember, that
sells sensors, and has a good data manual which discusses the design of
an altimeter.

        D/

 * OLX 2.2 * Bring back A-N airways!!    Dick.Zeitlin%acc1bbs@ssr.com
                                  
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.homebuilt
From: black@westford.ccur.com (Samuel Black)
Subject: Info wanted on building skills
Organization: Concurrent Computer Corp.  Westford, MA
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 18:57:24 GMT


I've been doing a lot of looking around at planes lately, and I'm considering
a homebuilt in order to get the range/payload capacity I need (something like
a Berkut would be ideal).  I'm a bit leery, however.  What skills are required
to build a plane?  What tools should I have available?  Are the build-time
estimates accurate?  Are they distributable (if you have two builders, is the
build time cut roughly in half)?

		- sam black

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Once you remove the absurdity from human existence, there isn't much left.
		     __________
		    /  _______/__	...!{decvax,uunet}!masscomp!black
		   /__/______/  /	black@westford.ccur.com
	  Concurrent /_________/
	Computer Corporation
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.homebuilt
From: tel@cbnews.cb.att.com (thomas.e.lester)
Subject: Re: Info wanted on building skills
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 14:51:43 GMT

In article <1992Nov9.185724.7833@westford.ccur.com> black@westford.ccur.com (Samuel Black) writes:
>
>I've been doing a lot of looking around at planes lately, and I'm considering
>a homebuilt in order to get the range/payload capacity I need (something like
>a Berkut would be ideal).  I'm a bit leery, however.  What skills are required
>to build a plane?  

    Only one.   Patience !!   All the others can be obtained along the way.
    Seriously!  But more to the point, it varies with the type of plane
    you decide to build.  Some require welding, others metal working
    as in bending aluminum without making it look like junk, others require
    a lot of composit (epoxy) work.

    So, be prepared to learn new skills and pick your project according to
    you willingness to learn.

>What tools should I have available?  

    The more the better.  Many kits today will advertise only standard
    hand tools.  i.e. wrenches, screwdrivers, etc.  Others require
    access to an entire machine shop.
    I built a tube and fabric fuselage from scratch and aluminum wings
    with a drill press, radial arm saw, welding outfit, and hand tools.
    I REALLY wished I had a lathe for many small custom parts I wanted.

>Are the build-time estimates accurate?  

    Sure!   They just left off that silly extra "0" at the end.

>Are they distributable (if you have two builders, is the
>build time cut roughly in half)?

    Probably increased!  ;-)  Depends on how well you get along
    and how close your quality criteria match.
    It would be nice to have a second person show some interest.  It can
    be lonely building over several years by yourself.  But it can lead to
    a ruined friendship if one is constantly redoing the others work
    because it isn't up to their standard.  Be cautious.


	Qualification to answer:  8 years building a Sonerai.
	And it is finally flying !   8-)

-- 
	-----------------------------------------------------------------
	Tom Lester				att!cblph!tel
	Sonerai IIL (under TEST)		(614) 860-3259
	N4LX 					(614) 927-8106
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.homebuilt
From: ron@etch-eshop.Berkeley.EDU (Ronald Viegelahn)
Subject: looking for kit info
Reply-To: ron@etch-eshop.Berkeley.EDU (Ronald Viegelahn)
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 00:44:46 GMT



  Hello fellow homebuilders:

 I'm just now getting involved with ultralights. In fact I'm
taking my first flying lesson ever tomarrow. I've been looking
at various brochures from different manufacture's.

 I know that it would be in my best interest to wait until I'm
through learning to fly before deciding on what, if any to buy.

 I have built model airplanes all my life ( I'm 38 ). So the concept
of building my own plane doesn't bother me. I pretty much know what
I'd be getting into. ( LOTS OF TIME!! ) 

 My current question is: Has anyone out there have any experience
with the " TEAM INC, minimax "  line of kits ? In particular, do 
these come with precut parts that don't require much sanding ?

 From my experience with building R/C models, there is a world of
difference in the work/time required to build. when the kit you 
buy is of GOOD quality precut parts.

 Any comments,or advice will be apreciated.

				Thanks;

				Ron Viegelahn

				ron@etcheshop.Berkeley.EDU
From: roa@cray.com (Richard O. Ayres)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.homebuilt
Subject: Re: How accurate can I make a homebrew altimeter?
Date: 9 Nov 92 20:11:35 GMT
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.

In article <10701@vice.ICO.TEK.COM> shauns@vice.ICO.TEK.COM
(Shaun Simpkins) writes:
>
>The relationship between pressure and altitude is nonlinear - not
>vastly so, but enough that it must be accounted for if the above accuracy
>requirements are to be met.

How do standard mechanical altimeters compensate for this nonlinearity?

>Semiconductor pressure sensors also have a strong temperature coefficient
>which has to be reduced to near zero to pass FAA regs.

I assume you looked into putting the sensor in an oven.  Are there any
major problems with an oven other than warm-up time?

Rick Ayres
Cray Research, Inc.
roa@techops.cray.com
From: dsnyder@falcon.aamrl.wpafb.af.mil
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.homebuilt
Subject: Re: Mazda's Rotary Engine
Date: 10 Nov 92 10:34:04 EST
Organization: USAF AL/CFH, WPAFB, Dayton, OH

In article <1992Nov6.170319.17877@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>, Charles.K.Scott@dartmouth.edu (Charles K. Scott) writes:
> In article <5NOV199208244378@xenon.arc.nasa.gov>
> laforce@xenon.arc.nasa.gov (Soren LaForce) writes:
> 
>> I would expect the exhaust gas has been
>> expanded less (in the engine) and contains a good deal more heat,
>> since less thermal energy has been converted to kinetic within
>> the engine.  This would account for the higher exhaust 
>> temperatures.
> 
> You may be correct and I may be oversimpifying things but I seem to
> remember somewhere that the Rotory just pumps more exaust cycles into
> the exaust system than conventional engines but someone smarter than me
> will have to do the math.  The way the rotors work produces more
> combustion surface area than conventional piston engines so the
> possibility exists for a less efficient combustion and more left over
> unburned gas.  This may well account for the hotter exaust.
> 
> Corky Scott

  One other data point I might include that might save someone some trouble.
I am told that the Mazda RX-7 uses a tuned exhaust system.  This means
that the mufflers cannot be replaced with a cheaper muffler because the
back pressure is not correct and the engine doesn't run well without the
correct back pressure.  I don't profess to know about this back pressure but
the Mazda mechanic told me this.  He said he has seen numerous engines that
didn't run well because the owner opted for the cheaper exhaust system and
as soon as the correct exhaust was installed the engine ran fine.  Just thought
I would throw in another point to consider.  I wish I could fit one of these
in my Cessna 140.  David-- 

---------------------------------------------------------------------
David B. Snyder                     Logicon Technical Services Inc.
dsnyder@falcon.aamrl.wpafb.af.mil   Wright-Patterson Air Force Base
513-255-7557                        Dayton, Ohio USA
---------------------------------------------------------------------
It is said that GOD doesn't subtract from ones' time on earth, those
hours spent flying.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
1946 Cessna 140 N76234 "The lady in waiting" Owner/Operator
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Opinions expressed are my own and not those of Logicon or the USAF.
---------------------------------------------------------------------