HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jvh@nature.berkeley.edu
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: bullet & gasoline truck
Date: 10 Apr 92 18:19:35 GMT


Forgive me if this question has been asked, but I just got around
to seeing "Thelma & Louise" and I just don't believe that a bullet
from a handgun can cause a gasoline truck to explode.  It seems
to me that the things must be thick enough to repel a handgun
bullet or they'd be blowing up all the time.  Even were a bullet
to puncture the tank, would it explode upon puncture?  I know in
that case, gas would spill and another bullet could spark on something
maybe, but on contact?  Does anyone know?

Thank you

Joan V
From: reb@amc.com (Bob Brunjes)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Indoor range backstops
Date: 14 Apr 92 14:30:45 GMT

A couple of friends of mine are very serious
about building an indoor private-use pistol
range in their basement.  While they haven't
established an exact upper limit on allowable
bullet energy/penetration, their intent is to
shoot only mid-range (no magnums) pistol 
loads, like .38 spl., .44 spl., 9mm, .45 ACP
(hardball, I would hope).

What I'm trying to find out for them is:
What's available for backstop designs and
materials?  I've heard mention of some rubber-
matrix hanging material, and I'd like some 
thickness/alloy information on steels for
cartridges in this energy/velocity range.

Email or post; I would think this is of general 
interest.

Thanks in advance-

 
Bob Brunjes		Applied Microsystems Corp
			Redmond, WA
			reb@amc.com
From: toby@milton.u.washington.edu (Toby Bradshaw)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: A calibre question
Date: 16 Apr 92 17:55:56 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

#The .50 BMG stands for Browning Machine Gun.
#
#It has become quite popular for 1000 yard target shooting.  The army uses a
#McMillian built .50 BMG for sniping out to 2000 meters especially if the target
#is microwave dishes, fuel dumps, etc.  According to the Special Forces weapons
#specialist who briefed me, they have to be sure of their shot, because the
#barrel heats up enough with one shot to change the point of impact 2 feet at
#2000 meters.

The current record for the FCSA (Fifty Caliber Shooter Association) is
a 5-shot 4-1/4 inch group at 1000 yards.  Evidently, well-made rifles
with good handloads don't mind a little heat.

#If you are used to conventional sporting rounds (even the 8mm Rem. Mag.) the
#only way to describe the case is HUGE!.  I don't have the exact specs, but the
#projectile has got to be 2 to 3 inches long (and 1/2 inch in diameter).  The
#case itself is 6 or 7 inches long and thicker than a broomhandle.  There is a
#slight shoulder on it.  I bet the case head is at least an inch in diameter. 
#I've never fired one, but the McMillan rifle I saw had a large muzzle brake on
#it that worked like a jet thruster to pull the rifle away from the shoulder. 
#This was to help counteract _some_ of the recoil.

I think the standard .50BMG puts out about 14,000ft-lbs. of muzzle
energy, flinging a ~750gr bullet downrange at about 2900fps.  The BR
guys are using monolithic solids with drive bands, since the guv
issue bullets won't cut it in BR.  With the clamshell brakes, these
guys are shooting 50 pound rifles (max allowed weight) free recoil;
i.e., no shoulder contact.  Powder charges run in the 235gr range,
for about 25 or 30 rounds per pound of powder.
From: lvc@cbvox1.att.com (Lawrence V Cipriani)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Combo handgun/subgun course at Chapman Academy
Date: 12 Apr 92 21:30:47 GMT
Organization: Ideology Busters, Inc.

I received a letter today from the organizer of the rifle course at
the Chapman Academy.  The course is on!

Also, he mentioned Ray Chapman is willing to teach a combination
handgun / submachine gun course.

If you are seriously interested in or would seriously consider taking
this course let me know.  Send me your name and US postal address,
and I'll forward them to the person organizing the class.

You'll have to bring your own weapon to the course, and you'll have
to have proper federal and state documentation, etc.  Please do not
contact the Chapman Academy at this time about this [possible] course.
-- 
Larry Cipriani, att!cbvox1!lvc or lvc@cbvox1.att.com
"An unarmed people are slaves, or subject to slavery
at any moment." -- Huey P. Newton.
From: hes@unity.ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: bullet & gasoline truck
Date: 13 Apr 92 20:42:06 GMT
Organization: Computing Center, North Carolina State University

In article <53100@mimsy.umd.edu> rrw@philabs.philips.com (Roger White) writes:
#In article <53044@mimsy.umd.edu> rtaraz@ascoli.WPI.EDU (Ramin Taraz) writes:
###>>>> On 10 Apr 92 23:21:05 GMT, rrw@philabs.philips.com (Roger White) said:
## ...
##rrw> In another scene, a fellow selling soft body armour, shoots
##rrw> himself point-blank with a .44 mag - no problem and then shoots
##rrw> another fellow point-blank with a rifle (I forget the caliber).
##rrw> The shootee is standing on one foot at the time and the impact
##rrw> doesn't even make him lose his balance.
##
##
##Now, lets see here, how can somebody get hit with a bullet from a
##rifle and not loose his balance?  I dont care how good the armour is,
##you do loose your balance! (or maybe I am mistaking, I never stopped a
##bullet with my body)  

  It's a situation of transfer of momentum.  The momentum transferred
to the person hit by the bullet is going to be less than the momentum
transferred to the shooter of the bullet.  (Quite a bit less, because
of the momentum of the hot gases plus other factors.)  Therefore the
target would less likely to be knocked off balance than the shooter.
Do people who shoot a .44 mag or a rifle get knock off balance?
##
##One more thing, how can a _soft_ body armour protect you from a .44 magnum?

  1)It stops the bullet, preventing a penetration wound.

  2)It distributes the impact over a larger (than .44" diameter) area.
## ...

  I saw the Deadly Weapons video, there is a lot of information there
and quite a few myths are dispelled.  There is some material there
on whether a .44 MAGNUM bullet will really shatter an engine block.
Also some good demo on full- versus semi-auto fire.

--henry schaffer  n c state univ
From: infmx!gregm@uunet.UU.NET (Greg Mitchell)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: bullet & gasoline truck
Date: 14 Apr 92 14:31:20 GMT
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.

In article <53066@mimsy.umd.edu> me@asmodeus.u.washington.edu (My Account) writes:
#Well, if you shoot the block with a .44 MAG then damn right it's gonna stop  
#functioning (I should know, I'm a mechanic)
#
#Engines just don't like running with cracked blocks...
#
#-Cohort

Nor do they like running without coolant for very long.  ( Ever loose
a radiator hose or freeze plug ? )  If you were to pierce the water
jacket or much more likely put a hole in the radiator the car won't
get very far at all.  Same thing if you were to pierce the oil pan
( or filter, although unlikely ), it just aint going to go for very long.
And if you were to bust the carburetor and get a bunch of gas to run
over hot exhaust manifolds you'd probably get a good fire going real
quick.  I suppose its alot like shooting any other critter, they'll
die its just a matter of when.


    Greg Mitchell          gregm@informix.com
From: gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Gun-Free School Zones and Gun Cases
Date: 16 Apr 92 13:12:43 GMT
Organization: U.S. Army Ballistic Research Laboratory, APG, MD.


In article <53161@mimsy.umd.edu> andy@sail.stanford.edu (Andy Freeman) writes:
#... it "shall be deemed to be a misdemeanor" ... for non-licensees to
#possess a gun within 1000 ft of a school.

What is a "licensee"?  I didn't know the federal government issued licenses.
From: ejohnson@cs.washington.edu (Eric Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Revolver Hammer Shrouds...
Date: 7 Apr 92 13:05:24 GMT
Organization: Sarah Brady Fan Club


A` taved: gun-control@cs.umd.edu

In article <52558@mimsy.umd.edu> jca@crash.cts.com (John C. Archambeau) writes:
#In article <52502@mimsy.umd.edu> asbestos@nwu.edu (Michael A. Atkinson) writes:
##I was wrong on at least two counts: the Centennial Airweight is not rated
##to +P+ (and possibly not even +P) and the little lever I read about in a
##magazine article apparently does not exist.  Oh, and modern revolvers don't
##need to have an empty chamber under the hammer to be safe when dropped.
#
#That's funny.  I've seen a picture of a S&W Centennial 640 opened up and
#it had engraved in it "Tested for +P+" in it.  And in the ad on the back
#of last month's G&A by S&W, it says it is +P rated.

There are two different guns here: The 640 is a steel framed 5 shot .38 
that has "Tested for +P" on it, beneath the cylinder, visible when you
swing out the cylinder. The 642 is the aluminum airweight version. It is
VERY light, and would probably make an ideal concealed carry weapon. 
I believe it is NOT rated for +P, so I wouldn't give ti a steady diet of
+P. 
#
#I plan on buying the 940 Centennial so I won't have to buy ammunition
#just for the revolver.  :)  I'd also imagine that the 940 (9mm) is a
#hair smaller (the cylinder) since 9mm is just a hair smaller than .357
#bullets.

I bet there is almost no difference in the external dimensions. I'd even wager 
that the bore diameter is the same.
#
#Who is right?  I do want my revolver to handle +P+ rounds or at very
#least +P rounds.

I don't know about the 940. But, even the best .38 +P+ loads only approach
the performance of good 9mm loads, so even if the 940 cannot handle +P, 
it will probably still exhibit better performance. 

...flames to null... :)
-- 
begin 644 .signature
M+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM
M+0I))VT@=&AE('9I8W1I;2!O9B!%2B=S('-I9VYA='5R92!V:7)U<R$@3V@@
$3F\A"FT@
From: skrone@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (stuart.krone)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: "GLOCK" - A Book Review
Date: 10 Apr 92 23:20:51 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <52927@mimsy.umd.edu> hes@unity.ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer) writes:
#In article <52854@mimsy.umd.edu> skrone@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (stuart.krone) writes:
##In article <52804@mimsy.umd.edu> hes@unity.ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer) writes:
###
#
##Did these look easy to manufacture yoursef?
#
#  Yes, they look in the picture very much like the standard
#cups with some scallops cut out of the flanges to allow water
#to flow through.
Thanks for the information. I think I'll pick up the book.
The idea  sounds very interesting.
#
#  By the way, they only tested the firing to a depth of 28"

28 inches ?? I guess shark hunting is out of the question :-)

#(if memory serves) and don't warrant firing any deeper than
#that.  They do make a fuss about the possibility of ear 
#damage.
#
#--henry schaffer  n c state univ
#
From: wmartin@STL-06SIMA.ARMY.MIL (Will Martin)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re:  T/C Contender
Date: 8 Apr 92 20:28:56 GMT

#From:           Andy Freeman <andy@sail.stanford.edu>
#There is a disadvantage to owning <16" barrels, namely, you can't own
#a shoulder stock unless it is on a second frame that was sold by the
#factory as a carbine.  (If you only own a sold as carbine frame, you
#can't own ANY <16" barrels or a handgun stock because using the former
#alone is creating a short barrel rifle while using the latter at all
#is coverting a rifle into a handgun.)  If all your barrels are >16"
#and you own a sold as handgun frame, you can't assemble a
#short-barrelled rifle no matter what you do.  (Putting a shoulder
#stock on a handgun with a >16" barrel is okay; you're making a legal
#rifle from a handgun.)  If you own a 14" barrel, a 16" barrel, a
#shoulder stock and only a sold as handgun frame, you're in violation
#of NFA even if you never use the stock with the 14" barrel.

I've wonmdered about this for years. I even wrote the NRA about it some
time back and got back a response which basically said nothing much...

Are the T/C frames *marked* "Carbine" or "Pistol" or are there some
dimensional differences between the frames sold as a carbine with stock
and > 16" bbls and the frames sold as pistols?

If not, how can anyone tell you have a T/C bought as a carbine and then
you bought a pistol grip and a shorter bbl and are using it as a pistol?

Aside from the legal issues, are there any mechanical reasons you cannot
buy a carbine and then buy all sorts of pistol bbls and grips and 
mix and interchange the parts?

Regards, Will
wmartin@st-louis-emh2.army.mil OR wmartin@stl-06sima.army.mil
From: jsm%n4vu.UUCP@mathcs.emory.edu (John Miller    )
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 9mm Clip prices?
Date: 12 Apr 92 21:30:52 GMT
Organization: Universal Consulting

sybok@athena.mit.edu (The Terminator) writes:

# What's strange is that my SA1911 came with a 7-round magazine, although
# I've always though they came with 8-rounders.  (Yes, I checked. Seven rounds.

Now that you mention it . . . 
 
My SA P9 magazines have a rather large follower that *could* be cut down 
to allow another round or two.  Could it be that they're trying to 
protect us from spring fatigue?  (i.e., even if you cram the magazine full, 
because of the long follower, the spring is still not under extreme 
compression)

 John Miller, N4VU            Fayetteville              Voice: (404) 676-4189
 jsm@n4vu.UUCP                (Atlanta) GA, USA          Data: (404) 964-5277
 -----------------  A tedious tag overwhelms the sig_nature  ----------------
From: thi@mips2.ma30.bull.com (Saigon Smuggler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Reasons to carry
Date: 7 Apr 92 13:05:56 GMT
Organization: Bull HN Information Systems Inc.


Does anyone know if the state of Utah issues concealed carry permits?

Thanks,

-tt
From: dingbat@cix.compulink.co.uk (Codesmiths)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: "GLOCK" - A Book Review
Date: 12 Apr 92 21:30:55 GMT

# In article <52977@mimsy.umd.edu> crs@beta.lanl.gov (Charlie Sorsby) writes:
# #In article <52909@mimsy.umd.edu> you write:
# #= 
# #=     According to Peter Kasler, amphib. spring cups are restricted sale
# #=     items by Glock, although not due to any legal restrictions.



# Speaking of which, I wonder _why_ they are restricted??


Fear of lawsuits, from someone stupid enough to shoot with their head
underwater & burst their eardrums ?

          Andy Dingley    dingbat@cix.compulink.co.uk
From: C08926RC@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu (Rob)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: AR-15 Kits
Date: 11 Apr 92 23:43:59 GMT

#From previous posts I've learned which companies have the better AR-15
kits, and which companies to stay away from.  I noticed that Sarco has
AR-15 kits for $275, less lower receiver.  Since I'm on a budget, this
appeals to me.

Does anyone have experience with the Sarco kits?  Should they be
avoided?

I guess I should ask the same question about thier .45 auto kits...


Rob
C08926RC@WUVMD
From: kmwheeler@ualr.edu
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: RE: AR-15 kits
Date: 16 Apr 92 13:12:30 GMT
Organization: University of Arkansas at Little Rock

Who's AR-15 kit is best?

I know that if you are going to build an AR-15, you better use
AR-15 parts. (M-16 parts in an AR-15 lower reciever can cause
unintentional firing of the weapon--The BATF did a report to 
FFL holders concerning construction of AR-15 with M-16 parts)

Also--does anyone have any experience with the CM-2037 flare launcher?

(It looks like a M-203, but costs 10 times less)

I've seen some interesting loads available for the 37mm launcher.  It
might be fun in the backwoods of Arkansas.

Keith
From: sybok@m4-035-19.MIT.EDU (The Terminator)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: capstun shelf-life
Date: 10 Apr 92 23:20:42 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

In article <52961@mimsy.umd.edu> jvh@nature.berkeley.edu writes:
#
#Does anyone know the life of a capstun spray?  I know that the
#various mace sprays are no good after a couple years (sometimes
#sooner), but does this hold also for the capstun spray?  I see
#no expiration date on the capstun dog spray available in CA,
#(for dogs only).
#
#Joan V
#

The instructions accompanying a defense spray will usually say that
the cannister should be "test fired" once a month to ensure proper
function.  Since a quantity of the spray is lost each time this is done,
Capstun would have a limited lifetime in this sense.
From: messina@netcom.com (Tony Porczyk)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Glock 21
Date: 16 Apr 92 22:29:03 GMT
Organization: Messina Software

sybok@m4-035-2.MIT.EDU (The Terminator) writes:

##I agree with every word here.  I was prejudiced against .45 after shooting
##Springfield which handled like a piece of junk, unbalanced and throwing
##bullets at whichever direction. 

# The Springfield Armory 1911 is the greatest autoloading pistol ever created,
# and the 45ACP cartridge is the greatest load. Not only is the stock 
# SA1911 the base gun for professional shooters across the country

The key word here is "base".  Sorry, I don't want a base, I want a
pistol that handles perfectly out of the box.  I don't want to put
$1000 extra in a gun I will use for self-defense (besides the fact
that I do not want to have to modify such gun for obvious, I hope,
reasons). 

# The Glock looks like a toy gun made from cheap plastic, while the
# 1911's handsome appearance is legendary. 

I don't buy a self-defense gun on looks alone.  If I did, i would
probably buy a different one anyway.  I prefer cheap, reliable, light
plastic gun that handles like a dream.  I suspect that when time comes
to use it, I will not be discussing the aesthetic aspects of it with
the guy in front of me anyway. 

Tony

Ps.: I tried the new Colt 2000.  I thought nothing could beat the
attrocious trigger of the old Ruger P85.  Well, I was wrong.  This one
is a *magnitude* worse... 

t.
From: earlw@Apple.COM (Earl Wallace)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Smoking those little orange disks
Date: 15 Apr 92 14:03:58 GMT
Organization: Dewey, Screwum & Howe, Inc.


For the second time in my life, I went out and fired some shotgun shells at
the trap range.  I have perhaps a total of 1 hour experience and yet I seem 
to be smoking these disks at a much higher rate than I would have expected
(over 70%).  Is this considered normal?  What percentage of the clays should
be hit to be considered good?

It's more fun to shoot these things out of the air than bore holes in a paper
target...
From: claytonc@pogo.wv.tek.com (Clayton Carpenter)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Tokarev, Makarov. Any good?
Date: 13 Apr 92 20:42:11 GMT
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Wilsonville,  OR.


Hi,

I have a buyer who is interested in an inexpensive
9mm autoloader.  A friend of mine has a Helwan
Brigader and this guy likes it.  My question is
how do the Tokarev, and Makarov, compare in quality
and reliability to something like a Helwan?

I would be interested in hearing from anyone with
experience with these models.

Thanks

Clayton Carpenter
From: leem@jpl-devvax.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Lee Mellinger)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: SIG Sauer P226 vs. P228
Date: 9 Apr 92 23:31:05 GMT
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory (NASA)

In article <52873@mimsy.umd.edu> baechler@lia.di.epfl.ch (Emmanuel Baechler) writes:
:
:
:# well, i dont think the P7 is *that* much smaller than the P228.
:# i personally don't like the H&K squeeze trigger set-up at all.
:
:# also, i believe that in the M9 testing they were unreliable, although every
:# person i know that has owned one says they have never had a problem, with
:# the exception of an occasional jam.
:
:The original name of the HK P7 was: "*POLIZEI* Sebstblade Pistole" (Police
:automatic pistol). This gun had never been designed for military use. It 
:has been designed for criminal and antiterrorist police departments. So,
:it's quite understandable that the US army didn't like it. I fact I wonder
:why HK tried to get this contract at all. This also explain that policemen
:and people like this gun a lot for their own self defense.
:
:No, In fact, I have been extrememly busy and couldn't take time to
:write to them. I have a bit more time now, so, I'll ask them one of
:Emmanuel Baechler

The original designation of the P7 was PSP, the P7 refers to the
BDR competition.  The Bundeswehr adopted the P7 as their standard
sidearm after an evaluation similar to the US Army's.

I have Trijicon sights on my P7, very easy to install, it took only
one day by Armson.

Lee

"Mit Pulver und Blei, die Gedanken sind frei."

|Lee F. Mellinger                 Caltech/Jet Propulsion Laboratory - NASA
|4800 Oak Grove Drive, Pasadena, CA 91109 818/354-1163  FTS 792-1163     
|leem@jpl-devvax.JPL.NASA.GOV
From: cavasin@convex.com (Vince Cavasin)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Need High Standard Target Pistol info
Date: 16 Apr 92 22:29:08 GMT
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA

My dad recently decided it was time to by a decent .22 pistol for plinking.
He remembers a High Standard .22 target pistol a friend of his had back in the
mid-seventies, and decided that was what he wants, but he can't find anything
like it at the one or two local gun stores he checked out.  He asked me if I
could help (more because I live in Texas than because I have net access:^).
I'm clueless.  Does High Standard still make a .22 target pistol?  Did they
ever?  Can anyone give me any info?  Like models, prices and availability?
Sorry I can't be more specific, the old man didn't mention the action type or
anything else, and I didn't think to ask at the time.

thanks,
vince
From: C.T.Teo@massey.ac.nz (C.T. Teo)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Blessed Sig 210???????
Date: 15 Apr 92 14:03:45 GMT
Organization: Massey University, Palmerston North, New Zealand

Re: Blessed Sig 210?????

I am new to rec.guns and whatever relevant information I could get on Sig seems
to suggest that it is a precision piece of hardware. Of interest to me is the
9mm para model. Why is ONE Sig 210 equivalent to THREE P226 in terms of price?
Aren't the basic internal mechanism the same? Is comparing a similar capacity
Honda and a BMW a good analogy? Or same model BMW except one with more "extras"
and "turbocharged"?

C.T.Teo@massey.ac.nz
Massey University
Palmerston North
New Zealand
From: forda@gtephx.UUCP (Andrew Ford @ AGCS, Phoenix, Arizona)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Carry by security guards in CA
Date: 7 Apr 92 13:04:45 GMT
Organization: gte

In article <52553@mimsy.umd.edu>, lairdb@crash.cts.com (Laird P. Broadfield) writes:
# In <52483@mimsy.umd.edu> kdlin@laplace.scd.ucar.edu ( Desperado ) writes:
# 
# #Is this a security company like Westec?
# 
# #I've often seen security guards from security/protection companies
# #of their cars saying that they are armed patrol. How can they do that?
# #Isn't it illegal to open carry a loaded firearm in California?
# 
# There is a specific exemption for uniformed security guards in CA that
# have completed an "Armed Guard Firearms Qualification Course" (or 
# something like that.)  It's covered in 1202? of the PC.
# 
# (RTFM.  :-)

This should come as no surprise.  I've yet to see any gun control proposition
or law which prevents the very wealthy from protecting their property.


-- 
It's a wonderful feeling when you voted for the winner, but the time to vote for
the guy who "could win" is past: vote your conscience - Marrou/Lord in 92!
Andrew Ford INTERNET: gtephx!forda@asuvax.eas.asu.edu
            UUCP: !uunet!samsung!romed!asuvax!gtephx!forda