HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: WESCHAP@VMD.CSO.UIUC.EDU (Wes Chapman)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Subject: Re: Interchange?
Date: 30 Sep 92 01:17:21 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
              29 Sep 1992 12:33:18 CDT from <DLANGHAM@ENGLISH.AS.UA.EDU>

Interchange is available from the Daedalus Group, Inc., 1106 Clayton Ln.,
Suite #448E, Austin, TX 78723.  Prices range from $85 to $130 a station (if
my price sheet is current) depending on how many stations you're buying for.
Wes Chapman
Illinois Wesleyan University
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Date:         Thu, 1 Oct 1992 20:24:49 -0700
From:         James Crosswhite <JCROSS@OREGON.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Basic writing, again and again

I'm very interested in the way people are speaking up for memorization.
Socrates relayed the idea that writing may wreck memory, but people here
seem to be saying that memorizing enhances one's ability to write. The only
other time I've had students memorize was in an American Renaissance course
I taught at UC San Diego. Instead of a final paper, or exam, each student
memorized and recited at least 20 lines of Whitman. They all thought it was a
very strange thing for me to ask, but they were intense and energetic
during the recitations--and very interested in seeing what other people
thought was worth memorizing. I was satisfied that each one of them would
take at least something from the course. And isn't there an old Amherst
doctrine that knowing a poem is knowing how to perform it?
  Do others out there use memorization? What I have memorized has changed me,
I think, has become part of the repertoire of myself. Has it helped my
writing? I don't know.
jim crosswhite jcross@oregon.uoregon.edu
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Date:         Thu, 1 Oct 1992 20:03:16 CDT
From:         Bob Boston <S2.RSB@ISUMVS.IASTATE.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Computer Proficiency vs. Writing

Re:  Writing vs. Computing

I didn't understand why this string has turned into a discussion far removed
(in my mind) from my original concern when I wrote to Gordon Thomas, so I went
back to my original message to him and found I had said this:

"...our objective is to teach  writing, not to teach computer proficiency. I'm
already seeing that these  objectives conflict.  We want to spend as little
class time as possible on  computer training so that we can concentrate on
teaching writing.  Therefore, we want to use hardware and software that
require little computer expertise--  precisely what the administration does
NOT want us to use."

I wish we could use boldface on Internet/Bitnet, for the operative clause here
is "...we want to use hardware and software that require little computer
expertise...." In short, stuff that's easy to use, that's all.

At first, the administration tried to get us to use line editors on VAX or NAS
9180 terminals.  Then they urged us to use AT&T workstations running Writer's
Workbench (gotta have that grammar instruction).  Both were cheap, and that
was their main attraction for the bean counters.  We were able to ignore their
"suggestions" and get our first Mac classroom only because Apple gave us the
computers (the price couldn't be beaten).

Now the administration has decided that our next Writing Labs will be equipped
with MS-DOS computers.  They "want students to be proficient on all computer
systems."  That's not a bad goal, but why do WE have to achieve it?  Last
year's computer-use questionnaire showed that only two tenure-track writing
teachers out of a total English Department faculty of 180 use MS-DOS machines.
Since we schedule 15 sections of 26 students in each computer classroom, those
two writing teachers may feel a bit overworked if we open MS-DOS classrooms.

Okay, I'm overstating the case. My point, however, is what Gordon said in his
original message: "The real reason for this (potential) bonanza is that many
faculty  and Computer Services people (and managers of other general-purpose
labs) see  our facility as the cornerstone in building a networked set of
student labs  run by various departments (including the central Computer
Services) and that INTRODUCES the students to this environment."

Few of us like to be told what teaching materials we may use in our classes.
A department's course committee or area committee may recommend certain texts
or casebooks we would prefer not to use, but when they do so at least we know
the materials are intended to teach what we're supposed to be teaching.

In this situation the administration is trying to tell our department what we
MUST use, and they're telling us that they value us for teaching computer
proficiency rather than writing. I don't like that at all, and I may be
looking for a job in the near future.

Bob Boston
Iowa State University
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Sat, 3 Oct 1992 18:54:31 CDT
From:         Rockie Beaman <S1.RJB@ISUMVS.BITNET>
Subject:      Welcome new megabunny

 I would like to welcome another ISU megabunny, Carol Leininger, to MBU.
After spending three years working in Switzerland as a writer for a drug
company, Carol has returned to ISU to complete a doctorate.  She is also
currently teaching in one of our networked computer labs.

You'll have to ask Carol about what kind of "drugs" she wrote about.

Rockie

BTW:  The IRC chat on Faigley is scheduled for Thursday, October 8th, at 9:00
CST.  (Thanks, Robert, for pointing out that a calendar date is helpful.)
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Date:         Tue, 6 Oct 1992 04:55:14 CDT
From:         "(McDonald James C)" <jcm5337@USL.EDU>
Subject: Re: class size

Lisa, Shirley Little at San Diego State surveyed the writing programs in the
California State system, including class sizes, last year.  You should be able
to get numbers from her.
   Jim McDonald
From: IACDES@ASUACAD.BITNET (David E. Schwalm)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Subject: Outputs
Date: 6 Oct 92 15:47:05 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU


 Ok, here it is in English. The state legislature always wants to talk about t
 eaching loads (pretty negative terminology, in any case). In some states, the
 legislature (FLA for example) has determined that the teaching load of every
 faculty member will be 12 hours per semester. But then folks can start getting
 exceptions for this and that, and the net effect has been that no is teaching
 any more or less that they were before the edict; they just have to through
 all kinds of paperwork, reviews, hassles, etc. It's turned outto be very
 inefficient. Give me a four course teaching load, and I'll teach four small
 courses. To avoid all this and yet respond to legislative and public concerns
 about undergraduate education in particular, we are planning to describe what
 kind of experience an undergraduate ought to have--how many big courses, how
 many small ones, how many from TAs, how many from tenured/tenure track
 faculty, and so on. We are also going to try to figure out (this willbe
 trickier) what students who graduate from ASU (West or Main) ought to be able
 to do, generally and particularly and then figure out a way to assess our
 success in helping student reach these goals. And then we are going to figure
 out how to provide these experiences for the students headed our way. But the
 burden will be on departments and colleges to figure out how to make the best
 use of their funds and faculty. If big courses are necessary, get the right
 faculty teaching them. Some faculty serve the institution better as teachers,
 some as scholars, some combine the two better than others. The point is to
 develop several models of faculty excellence rather than the one that tends to
 dominate now. We hope to incorporate Boyer's notions of research; we want to
 consider alternative forms of faculty development; we want to figure out how
 to reward and honor all sorts of excellence. IN short, we want to move toward
 the goals we set by getting faculty to do what they do best. And I hope tohell
 that we can do this, and not fall back into counting publications only.

 -- David E. Schwalm, Assoc. Provost for Academic Programs
 ___Arizona State University West
 ___4701 West Thunderbird Rd.
 ___Phoenix, AZ 85069-7100___(602) 543-4500
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Thu, 1 Oct 1992 15:11:47 --500
From:         slatin@UTXVM.CC.UTEXAS.EDU
Subject:      Re: Facilities open in evening hours

THanks, Susanmarie-- I figured it would be something like that.  And I
would like to make it easier for our students to use Mail, too (and Eudora,
and StorySpace, and various and sundry other things there isn't time to do
during the first 24 hours of the day...).

John
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Date:         Fri, 2 Oct 1992 09:06:42 EDT
From:         mer <MROSE01@UKCC.UKY.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Basic writing, again and again

James:

              I've often required memorization in the American courses I've
              taught--particularly Whitman and Dickinson; course it all depends
              on how you do it.

              For example, I've had students tell me that I ruined ED for them
              for life by asking them to sing poems to the tune of the Yellow
              Rose of Texas, as suggested by a megabunnie about 1-1/2 yrs ago.

             'Course another approach related to imitatio is parody.
              I still chuckle over the one ED parody based on the
              Texas Chainsaw Massacre that I got fairly recently, entitled:

                             "I Saw a Buzz Saw when I Died"

              If there is interest, I'll try to dig it up and post it......mer
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Date:         Mon, 28 Sep 1992 20:02:57 -0700
From:         Karen Schwalm <SCHWALM@GC.BITNET>
Subject:      Basic writing, one more time

I have an immense favor to ask of megabunnies.  A colleague today (whom I
like and respect) indicated that she is thinking about changing how she
teaches ENG071 (our basic writing course) to include more grammar
instruction...so that more than half of the course is grammar instruction.
Her reasons for doing this include that most of the people in our
department have made ENG 071 a grammar course.  I allowed as how there was
NO research to indicate that teaching grammar helped basic writers improve
their writing, and in fact, such instruction might HINDER their learning.
She was confused.

I have dug out our copy of Theresa Enos' book on Basic Writing, and can hand
her my well-thumbed copy of Errors and Expectations, but what I would really
like here is a couple of pithy exhortations as to why she shouldn't turn to
teaching grammar.  Why should she resist the trend in our department (
albeit uninformed, as I see it)?  Help, help!!

I would like to print out responses (as I have done in the past on other
topics) and forward them to this colleague.  Realize that this is a person
with an open mind and incredible reserves of energy.  I think she would do
anything if it could point to results.

Even though I have been silent, I have been reading; you all are a constant
source of encouragement and support, whether you know it or not!



--Karen T. Schwalm              Department of English
--Glendale Community College    Maricopa Community College District
--6000 West Olive Avenue        Voice: (602) 435-3651  Bitnet: schwalm@gc
--Glendale, Arizona  85302      Internet: schwalm@gc.maricopa.edu
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Date:         Sun, 27 Sep 1992 11:33:54 CDT
From:         Jim Layton X <JRL721F@SMSVMA.BITNET>
Subject:      Announcement. . . .

From reading the screens, it appears appropriate to announce to the MBU-L
membership that Eric H. Hobson, a recent Ph. D. graduate from the University
of Tennessee is the new director of the Writing Center at Southwest Missouri
State University.   His new computer arrived on Friday and he should be on
this network soon.  Bitnet for Eric is:  EHH909F@SMSVMA  --  We anticipate
many wonderful ideas from Eric.

Sincerely,
          Jim

JAMES R. (JIM) LAYTON, ASSOCIATE VICE PRESIDENT
OFFICE OF ACADEMIC SERVICES / ACADEMIC  AFFAIRS
Southwest Missouri State University
Springfield, Missouri  MO65804-0094
JRL721F@SMSVMA.BITNET
FAX:  417 836 4884 OR 8432
TEL:  417 836 5034  (O)
TEL:  417 883 9346  (H)
From: RCRAIG2@KENTVM.BITNET (Ray Craig)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Subject: C&C Phone?
Date: 29 Sep 92 15:46:53 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

MBUers:

Does anyone have handy a phone number for ordering
publications from _Computers & Composition_ at
Michigan Tech?

Thanks again,
Ray Craig
rcraig2@kentvm
English, Kent State University
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Sat, 3 Oct 1992 17:27:00 CDT
From:         Fred Kemp <YKFOK@TTACS.BITNET>
Subject:      silence on MBU

Technical post:
I've been haunted by a number of error messages indicating
in-boxes that have filled, etc.  These things, depending on the
gated networks, can geometrically expand.  So these days I cut
people off from MBU quickly to avoid the deadly "this message
will continue to be transmitted for five days. . ." creating an
incredible complex of bounced dud messages ricocheting all over
the place.  How would YOU like to log on every other night with
300 messages waiting, 200 of which are error messages that it
takes 30 minutes to delete before your account is free enough to
send a message?

My point is this.  If you are one of those admirable people who
have turned on students and colleagues to MBU, be sure to inform
them that they can't simply walk away from an
account without signing off from their bitnet lists.  My second
point is my standard point:  if you suddenly stop receiving MBU,
it is probably that something has caused error messages to come
to me and I removed you, expecting that if your account is in good
standing and you want MBU, you will sign on again.

 Fred Kemp, TTU, MBU long-suffering owner
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Sat, 3 Oct 1992 12:31:00 EDT
From:         "Composition Digest (Robert Royar,
              Moderator)" <R0MILL01@ULKYVX.BITNET>
Subject:      (Fwd: *C&CD*) Always include dates in announcements (10)

Date:         Sat, 03 Oct 1992 09:37:42 EDT
From:         IN%"RobertRoyar@Delphi.com" Robert Royar (C&CD Moderator)
Message-id:   <1992Oct03.093742.1.Grendel.Lair@Cratylus>
Subject:      Always include dates in announcements (10)
Reply-to:     IN%"R0MILL01@ULKYVX.LOUISVILLE.EDU"  C&CD
Organization: Cratylus Educational Software

When announcing a meeting on the net (such as an IRC get together), it will
help if the announcer includes a calendar date.  Keep in mind that a posted
message may bang around a few days before finally landing in a reader's
mail box--so Thursday might be past or coming up.  Date headers on mail are
sometimes off from the time the message was actually sent.

------------------------------
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Date:         Tue, 6 Oct 1992 08:20:00 EST
From:         Joel Nydahl <NYDAHL@BABSON.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Jazz and New Age

Gary -- If you want "simpleness" and elegance in jazz, you might try nearly
anything by Johnny Hodges, Sidney Bechet, or EARLY Miles Davis--albums
entitled "Workin'" and "Diggin'" and "Walkin'" (and others) on the old Prestige
label circa 1953-55.  There's lots else, of course, but these spring to mind.
Also the Dave Brubeck Quartet of the middle and late '50s--especiall "Jazz Goes
to College" on Columbia, if it's still in print.  (My introduction to jazz!)

Joel Nydahl
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Date:         Tue, 6 Oct 1992 18:02:15 CDT
From:         "(McDonald James C)" <jcm5337@USL.EDU>
Subject: Re: Class size

Class sizes from a 1989 survey of Louisiana programs that I conducted:

Developmental courses:
LSU-Baton Rouge	18
Southeastern Louisiana U--20
McNeese SU--22
LSU--Alexandria--25
Delgado CC--25
Dillard U--25
LSU-Shreveport--25
U of Southwestern Louisiana--25 (for a 5-hour course)
U of New Orleans--27
Louisiana Tech--28
Northeast Louisiana U--30
Northwestern State U--30
Southern U-New Orleans--30
Southern U-Baton Rouge--40

Freshman composition:
Centenary--18
LSU--24
LSU-Shreveport--25
U of New Orleans--25
LSU-Alexandria--28
Delgado CC--27
Southeastern Louisiana U--27
Louisiana Tech--28
U of Southwestern Louisiana--28
McNeese State U--30
Northeast Louisiana U--30
Dillard U--35
Northwestern State U--35
Southern U-New Orleans--35
Southern U-Baton Rouge--40
  Grambling State University did not participate in the survey, but I learned
that one freshman composition class had 52 students that year, but the sections
averaged in the mid-40s.

Upper-division writing courses:
Centenary--20
LSU-Shreveport--20
Northeast Louisiana--20
Southwestern Louisiana--23
LSU-Baton Rouge--24
Southeastern Louisiana--25
U of New Orleans--25
McNeese State--30
Southern-New Orleans--30
Dillard--35
LSU-Alexandria--35
Northwestern State--35
Louisiana Tech--40
Southern-Baton Rouge--50

William Lalicker reported the results of a survey of Kentucky universities in
COMPOSITION CHRONICLE last year.
   Jim McDonald
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Organization: Samford University Writing Programs
X-Acknowledge-To: <DHROBERT@SAMFORD>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Wed, 30 Sep 1992 11:01:52 CDT
From:         "David H. Roberts" <DHROBERT@SAMFORD.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Campus-wide e-mail

John Slatin:
Our computer-equipped classrooms are reserved for classes from 8am until
5pm and then become open labs from 5 to midnight and all day sat & sun.
We have no major problems with the arrangement.

   __________________________________________
   David H. Roberts
   Director of University Writing Programs
   Samford University
   Birmingham, AL 35229-2207 USA
   Voice: (205) 870-2964; Fax: (205) 870-2384
   Bitnet:  DHROBERT@SAMFORD
   _______________________________________________
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
From: r0mill01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu (Robert Delius Royar)
Subject: Is the group down?
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 23:32:35 GMT
Reply-To: r0mill01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Organization: University of Louisville

Sorry to eat up the bandwidth with this, but there's been no mail on any of 
our readers or in my own mailbox from MBU-L since early Saturaday morning, 
including mirrored versions of my own postings.  Is this group clogged 
again?

robert royar
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Tue, 29 Sep 1992 14:30:43 EDT
From:         rselfe@MTU.EDU
Subject:      Re: ...and I thought heaven was Iowa

>
>Iowa may indeed be a little piece of heaven, but after 3 days in the NorthWest
>of Colorado I can say that Colorado is close to heaven too!  The aspen were
>quaking at their golden peak.  However, this is the only time of year when I
>miss Michigam--the northerly part of it in particular.  Every fall we'd go to
>the UP and wallow, literally and figurativey, in the leaves.  No colors like
>them anywhere!  Tell me, Dickie or Cindy, what I'm missin'
>Liz    :-(
>

I tried to do this last year Liz and of course failed. But . . . .

It's the individual trees that pop my cork.  The red and yellow maples and
rusty oaks that still have a green core but are changing to fire, flame,
and rust around the edges.  But then the there are the overlooks with
Superior in the background heaving and blowing and entire hillsides bright
with decay.  Now you can see all the little gullies and cuts in the cliffs
that were concealed by the mass of summer (?) green.  It's cool; it really
is football weather, if there ever was such a thing.  It is the fall I saw
each year in my school books but never experienced as I grew up in Texas.
In the evening you can hear chainsaws working through truck loads of 8 ft.
bolts, enough wood heat for three winters in our house.  I like.


Dickie Selfe              rselfe@mtu.edu
Humanities Dept.          906-487-3225
Michigan Technological U.
Houghton, MI   49931
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Date:         Fri, 2 Oct 1992 07:33:00 EDT
From:         "Composition Digest (Robert Royar,
              Moderator)" <R0MILL01@ULKYVX.BITNET>
Subject: (Fwd: *C&CD*) RE: Computers and Composition Digest 6. 283 (11)

Date: Thu, 01 Oct 92 11:21:07 CDT
From: Nancy Zuercher <UZNT07@SDNET.BITNET>
Message-id: <01GPFNECC32O8WWHOM@ulkyvx.bitnet>
Subject: RE: Computers and Composition Digest 6.283 (11)
Reply-to: Computers & Composition Digest (R. Royar) <R0MILL01@ULKYVX.BITNET>

More on grammar in basic writing--and, for that matter, in writing courses
in general:  The best and most comprehensive treatment of this issue that I
know is John Mayher's UNCOMMON SENSE.  The book won an award from NCTE and
delves into the (il)logic of prescribing more grammar when students, es-
pecially basic writers, make errors.  The book argues for whole language
approaches at any level--elementary through college, and is readable and
persuasive.

------------------------------
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Date:         Fri, 2 Oct 1992 09:09:00 EST
From:         "JEFFREY R. GALIN" <GALIN@PITTVMS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Basic writing, again and again

David Schwalm wrote that "Erasmus was big on imitatio.  And wrote
further that this technique "should be a regular part of the k-16
curriculum."  I can only assume that he is speaking in earnest here,
echoing what Martin Rosenberg suggested in a few earlier posts (I'm not
as sure Martin was serious, never know).
        At the risk of flaming, I'll keep my response to a minimum.
Basically I'd like to know WHY folks think imitating and reciting
*should* be a part of k -16 curriculum.  Yes, Churchill, Erasmus, and
Malcom X learned from this technique.  So too did several generations
"learn" from the rote study of grammar.  Doctors used leeches for quite
a while as well.  But, because one can learn from a given technique, or
thinks that a given technique works, doesn't mean that it is a technique
worth reproducing.  Perhaps I am too much a product of the process
paradigm.  Perhaps I too use the imitatio technique without realizing
that I am doing so with my students.
        But, I must say, I don't quite understand what is being called
for when I hear David and Martin resuscitating techniques like imitatio.
I'd be interested in hearing more.
jeff galin
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Date:         Fri, 2 Oct 1992 08:20:25 CDT
From:         Rockie Beaman <S1.RJB@ISUMVS.BITNET>
Subject:      Invite to IRC again

An Invitation to All to Join an Internet Relay Chat:

On Thursday night, at 9:00 (CST), ircsters from across the country will be
joining the net to have a synchronous conversation about the following
article:  Faigley, Lester.  "Non-Academic Writing:  The Social Perspective."
Writing in Non-Academic Settings.  Eds.  Odell & Gaswami.  New York:
Guilford, 1985. ppgs. 231-248.

I'm posting this note early so that people can obtain copies in time to read
before next Thursday's session.

We had a good time last Thursday night.  I encourage you all to come join us.

Rockie at Iowa State
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