From: hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Subject: Re: War Resisters League on Terrorism (should be "of" terrorism)
Reply-To: hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 18:14:54 GMT

In article <dfs.703188069@ro>, dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll) writes:
> In <1992Apr13.143417.8587@ncsu.edu> hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad
> Hernlem) writes:
> 
> >You included a large list of hostage takings, murders, etc..
> 
> Most of which were committed by Hezbollah.  The article from leb-net
> was mostly about Syria, true, but included several descriptions of
> Hezbollah acts.  To that list we can add one which I forgot to
> mention - the bombing of the synagogue in Turkey.  The list of kidnapped
> people specifically referred to those committed by Hezbollah.
> 
> >Readers please note that in much of what David posted [deleted for
> >brevity] there is no reference or evidence that the Hezbollah committed
> >these acts and in some cases the implication is that the Syrians and
> >their allies were responsible, not the Hezbollah.
> 
> See above.
> 
> >Again David is
> >expanding the guilt of one group to include everything he finds
> >offensive. The SLA and Israel have hundreds of hostages in south
> >Lebanon, many of which have suffered severe torture. The Israeli
> >occupiers and the SLA almost daily shell Lebanese villages (when
> >Hezbollah rocketted Israel for the first time during the days after
> >Mosawi's murder this was presented as if it happens all the time).
> 
> Not by me.  Further, the SLA is a Lebanese group, which shows that not
> all Lebanese view Hezbollah as resistance fighters.
>
> [...]
> >From the vast examples of what the Hezbollah
> >actually do (fight Israeli occupation) I, personally, cannot accept what
> >David claims as Hezbollah's stated goal.
> 
> First of all, I find your claim that Islamic Jihad and Hezbollah are
> separate groups absurd, considering that in article
> ncsu.1992Mar31.161827.26150 on Match 31, you wrote:
> 
> > In Beirut, the Islamic Jihad, considered the terrorist arm of the
> > Hezbollah, issued a statement claiming credit for the Argentine bombing.
> > It called the act a suicide bombing, and said the deceased driver of the
> > vehicle was an Argentine convert to Islam.
> 
> You wrote this quoting the Iran Times of Friday, March 27, 1992, and did
> not dispute that assessment of Islamic Jihad.
> 
> Secondly, in article <1991Dec4.154344.4856@ncsu.edu>, you wrote:
> 
> > Hezbollah, which advocates wiping out the Jewish state, has stepped
> > up its attacks against Israeli targets in southern Lebanon to sabotage
> > the Middle East peace talks.
> 
> So is not Hezbollah's STATED GOAL the destruction of Israel, as I asserted?
> Mr. Hernlem, please make up your mind!

I would like to state that regarding the last two excerpts of my
postings, I do disagree with the editorializing which was done in both
those pieces. I cannot with good faith present articles from which I
have cut out these sorts of parts. We have discussed this several times;
no news article is free from opinion! About the second excerpt one could
argue that Israel is attempting to derail the peace talks by continuing
its brutal bombardment of villages in Lebanon in retaliation to attacks
on its occupation forces and by assassinating Mosawi who has been
instrumental in the negotiations last year to press for the release of
virtually all Western hostages and to try to obtain the release of
Israel's Palestinian and Lebanese hostages and the return of the
presumed Israeli hostages or their remains. About your last question, in
my opinion the answer to this is no. See my next paragraph.

> >I think rather that their
> >"stated" goal is to eradicate Zionism and the evil which it has spawned
> >in the middle east.
> 
> I can tell you, Brad, that 95% of Jews would consider the eradication of
> Zionism as a profoundly antisemitic act, and whether or not you agree
> is irrelevant.  The fact is that by having such a goal, Hezbollah has
> declared war on Jews.

I know from reading your posts that we both disagree about the
definition of "Zionism". This is a word which means different things to
different people. I am absolutely convinced that what the Hezbollah are
refering to when they criticize "Zionism" is the racist idea that one
people somehow has a god-given right to land, property, or respect which
is not given to all people. I do not believe that you, David, believe in
this "Zionism", and I know that there are many Jews who also do not.
However, just like you say that many Jews view such criticism of Zionism
as an affront to Jews, I believe that many Hezbollahis and others view
the extreme and brutal actions of Israel's government of representing
the manifestation of Zionism. If I were a PR consultant to the Hezbollah
I would tell them to knock this "Zionism" bashing off and choose
different words to express their concerns. We should also remember that
what we are told that the Hezbollah are saying is the translation of
people who probably have no interest in making sure that they get it
right (hence when Hezbollah says something to effect of wiping out
Zionism they could either be paraphrased as advocating the elimination
of the form of fascism practiced by the Israeli government or they could
be paraphrased as promoting the destruction of Israel depending upon
what sort of reporter you are).
 
> >This position would be taken by many to mean the
> >eradication of Jews but I think that is not what is meant. Jews are one
> >of the "peoples of the Book" and they must be respected in Iran by
> >Islamic law.
> 
> Oh please.
> 
> >Because Hezbollah is a creation of Iran,
> 
> Wait a sec - I thought Hezbollah was the "Lebanese resistance movement."  But
> now, you're telling me that Hezbollah is the creation of a foreign
government,
> imposed on the people of Southern Lebanon??? Please make up your mind!  If
> what you say is true, then Hezbollah has no more legitimacy in Lebanon than
> the IDF.

I would agree that Iranians have no more business in Lebanon than the
IDF unless they were invited but Lebanese have every right to join any
organization that they wish and Iran has every right to provide
assistance to these people provided that the Lebanese government allows it.
 
> >it would be
> >against Iranian law, Islamic law and common sense for Hezbollah to
> >promote the genocide of Jews.
> 
> Oh please.  Iran had no problem with murdering thousands of Bahais,
> so it already has plenty of practice in genocide.  A friend in my
> undergraduate engineering class fled Iran because he was under the
> death sentence, simply because he was Bahai.  Most of the professors
> at his university were murdered by the so-called Iranian "law", and he
> (the most kind and gentle person you would ever want to meet) is still
> considered under death sentence in Iran.
> 
> Iran had no problem imposing a "death sentence" on Salman Rushdie.  So
> much for Iranian "law."
> 
>
> --
>                      |         | "Step up and shake the hand
> David F. Skoll       | ||||||| |  Of someone you can't stand,
> |_ _ _  __   __ _ __ |  \\V//  |  You can tolerate him if you try..."
>  / |  | |_|   | |  | |  __|__  |  -- Tom Lehrer, "National Brotherhood Week"
>
_____|________________________________________________________________________

Brad Hernlem
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast