From: bkoike@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Bryce Koike)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: game vs reality simulation
Date: 5 Oct 92 18:43:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: sdcc12.39036
Organization: University of California, San Diego


	This conversation has gotten off the track that it was
previously on and I'd like to bring it back to where it was.

	The argument:

	A character with a 15 HT is too poweful.

	I still believe that anyone with a 15 stat can be considered
"heroic."  A normal person on the street has 25 points to them --
hardly enough to warrant a 15 stat (which costs 60 points).  Anyone
with a 15 stat is going to be, practically by definition, quite
incredible.

	Sample GURPS combat with a character with a 10 HT (which
happens to be most of my characters).  He is unarmed and beset by
serveral foes.  Regardless, he's pretty good -- good enough to only
take one hit a turn.

Pistol Shot To Vitals  (assuming 2d+2 damage, normal ammunition)
Turn 1
	He takes 10 damage (not unlikely).  Damage to vitals is x3,
so he takes 30 damage.  At the 0 HT mark he must make a
consciousness roll and makes it (barely).  At the -HT mark he must
make a HT roll or die.  He fails and dies.

	This is fairly standard.  He only has a 50% chance of
surviving a shot to the "vitals".  A shot to the vitals, I am
assuming, is a shot placed to penetrate organs in the chest region.l
A torso shot, on the other hand, covers everything from the crotch
up to the shoulders.  It was mentioned that a shot placed
perpedicularly to bone will most likely shatter it and seriously
damage vital organs.  I'd consider that an organ shot.

Pistol Shot to Torso (same gun as above...it's 9mm in GURPS)
Turn 1
	He takes 10 damage which brings him down to 0 HT.  He must
make a roll to stay conscious and makes it.  He is now down to 1/2
MOVE, is stunned, and cannot do anything until he snaps out of it.

Turn 2
	He takes 10 damage from another bullet.  He fails his HT
roll and dies.  It's possible that he could have survived this one,
but even if he did, he would have to make a roll every turn to stay
conscious.  If he failed, he would be knocked out.  Without medical
help, he's guaranteed to die.

Rifle Shot to Torso (6d weapon, similar to the M16)
Turn 1
	He takes 21 points of damage to the torso.  He fails his HT
roll and falls unconscious.  He makes his HT roll to stay alive,
though (but barely).

Turn 2
	He takes 17 points of damage to the torso.  This time he
fails his HT roll and dies.


	Average people tend to die very quickly without the aid of
armor in combats, even with the supposedly-wimpy GURPS handguns.
The argument was centered around extremely above-average individuals
and their ability to take damage.  (Note:  a character with 10 HT
taking a brain shot will almost always die.  He is knocked
unconscious immediately, takes damage x4 [no blowthrough].
Pretending that the gun did 12 points of damage, he'd take 40 damage
which comes out to 3 HT rolls to survive.  The odds are against this
guy unless he's very lucky.  And 20 more points of damage will kill
him permanent like anyway.)
	The average person (and I assume that the average soldier in
the military hovers between HT 10-11.  Those in special programs
will most likely have a higher health, though) will die very quickly
in combat.  The argument was that GURPS did not handle combat
"realistically."  The solution, it seemed, would be to switch TORSO
with VITALS (every shot to the chest ALWAYS penetrates major
organs?).  Unfortunately, this would prove to be even more
unrealistic in my book.
	The high-HT character would be able to withstand more damage
in general, but the message I posted a few days back showed that
even a person like this, when shot in the vitals, would only last 4
seconds at the most if he took a single shot to the vitals a turn.
After this point he would be shredded and irrevocably dead unless
you have rules for ressurection...