HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: andy@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (Andy Freeman)
Subject: Re: FAQ: The Record Thing
Organization: /usr/lib/news/organizatoin
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 15:39:19 GMT

In article <V6PVPB2w164w@mintir.new-orleans.la.us> elendil@mintir.new-orleans.la.us (Edward J. Branley) writes:
>andy@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (Andy Freeman) writes:
>> Hint: to the extent that the second part of the plan depends on the
>> first part, it is silly to propose the second part until AFTER the
>> first part has been done.  In other words, if Congress rejects the
>> plan in 1990, it doesn't do any good to submit the budget for the
>> plan's second year in 1991.  Bush has to rework the year 1 plan and
>> submit it.  And so on.
>>
>> It is unreasonable to say "well, he had a plan that we didn't follow,
>> and that didn't work, so therefore, his new plan won't work either."
>> We don't know if the first plan would have worked; we didn't follow
>> it.
>
>So, because his original 'plan' is now inoperative, that means he is now under
>no obligation to try again?

He's obligated to keep submitting year 1 of the plan, reworked to take
into account changes since the previous time it was proposed.  Are
you claiming that he didn't?  He says that he has, but that each
year it has been declared dead on arrival and the demos have gone
on with a continuation of their plan.

What would you have him do?  Veto the budget and let the fed govt
coast (like CA is doing) until he gets something acceptable?  As
long as Congress won't accept his plan, that's his only option.

>That means that the Bush administration is just as
>guilty as the Congress on the deficit issue.

No one ever claimed that he wasn't.  We're arguing about how we want
to get out.  We've been trying the Clinton plan (more taxes and
"investment") since the 1990 "deal"; is it working?

-andy
--
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ARPA:    andy@cs.stanford.edu
From: egl1@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Elizabeth G. Levy)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.bush
Subject: Re: President Bush
Date: 1 Sep 92 00:28:58 GMT
Reply-To: egl1@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Elizabeth G. Levy)
Organization: Columbia University

In article <1992Aug31.201641.14028@aio.jsc.nasa.gov> cessna@kn5f.jsc.nasa.gov (Mark Taylor Evert) writes:
>In article <1992Aug30.181022.21289@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> 
>bx822@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ben Hansen) writes:
>>  Is there a Republican out there who can tell me that the 
>> "no new taxes" pledge was not a cynical manipulation at best
>> and a lie at worst?
>
>Is there a Democrat out there who can tell me that Clinton kept his 
>promise COMPLETELY intact for a middle class tax cut which he made early 
>in his campaign???

I was from the Tsongas camp, so I thought it was a stupid promise to
start with, and shouldn't have been made.  Oh, well.  In any case,
it's no worse than Bush's "no new taxes": both pledges were revised
with regard to the cirucmstances.  I believe Clinton still has about
half the middle-class tax cut he mentioned at the beginning.

>
>Compare the attitudes of the 2 candidates towards taxes.   Bush 
>reluctantly increased them to appease Congress and admitted it is a 
>mistake after Congress failed to keep it's end of the bargain and reduce 
>spending.  Clinton can't wait to raise them and says nothing about 
>reducing spending.  In fact, he wants to increase it.
>
>Mark T. Evert
>Friendswood, TX
>
>My opinions are my own.

More like the opinions of Bush's speechwriter (almost verbatim from
the acceptance speech, minus that ridiculous 128 number).  About
Congress reducing spending: did Bush submit a budget without a
deficit?  Was Bush's deficit bigger, or smaller?  In regard to
Clinton's tax raises in Arkansas, I believe the New Republic noted
that a number of them were temporary hikes (this is from the more
reasonable list).  Further, the hikes Clinton used to close budget
gaps were directed to teacher salaries.

--
Sweet Thames, run softly till I end my song
Sweet Thames, run softly, for I speak not loud or long.
			-- T.S. Eliot, "The Wasteland"
Newsgroups: alt.politics.bush
From: sean@cae.wisc.edu (Sean Rutledge)
Subject: Re: Is this a socialist county?
Organization: U of Wisconsin-Madison College of Engineering
Date: 29 Aug 92 21:29:12 CDT

In article <5864@transfer.stratus.com> cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares) writes:
>In article <1992Aug23.070115.3144@techbook.com>, szabo@techbook.com (Nick Szabo) writes:
>> I've seen fat folks on food stamps.
>
>This is in fact a common condition, that the newly poor gain weight.  
>In fact, there is some name for it.  It occurs because more of the
>person's calories now come from starches, which are much cheaper, rather
>than proteins.  I guess you could call it the "macaroni & cheese syndrome."
>-- 

It still angers me to see someone buy potato chips etc. with food
stamps when I don't buy them because they are too expensive.  Why should
my tax money subsidize "luxuries" for these people that I cannot afford???


sean rutledge                              murphy was an optimist!!!
sean@cae.wisc.edu

Newsgroups: alt.politics.bush
From: lfoard@Turing.ORG (Lawrence C. Foard)
Subject: Re: Offended at being called 
Organization: The Turing Project, Charlottesville Virginia.
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 05:24:23 GMT

In article <1992Aug26.013636.16635@ncsu.edu> dsh@odin.ece.ncsu.edu (Doug Holtsinger) writes:
>Why not add "obesity" to discrimination clauses?  Or how about
>"ugliness" or "smelliness"?   Fat, ugly, and smelly people face 
>far more overt job and housing discrimination than homosexuals.  
>And unlike homosexuals, they can't hide their handicap. 
>
>Give me a good reason to support gay rights legislation.

So why can't I discriminate based on religion? After all a religious
person can hide there religion, infact with a bit of deprogramming it
can even be changed.

Why should Christians have the right to be married or serve in the
military? After all they could hide or change there religion...
-- 
>>Unix/C Contract worker available 5 years C/unix work experience<<  ______
Available for Telecommuting/Travel and contracts on the T Line       \    /
in the Boston MA area. Send me e-mail for a copy of my Resume.        \  /
       -- VWIS 508-793-9568 (2400 baud), Linux support BBS.--          \/
From: masticol@cadenza.rutgers.edu (Steve Masticola)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.bush
Subject: Re: Radio idea (family values)
Date: 1 Sep 92 13:01:30 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

howeird@hplabsz.hpl.hp.com writes:

""On the radio this morning (WMAG-99.5FM Winston-Salem) a caller had an idea
""regarding the recent emphasis in the elections on "family values."
"Isn't it amusing:

"Ronald Reagan has a son who, against daddy's wishes, became a ballerina, 
"George Bush has a son who was indicted for taking part in shady banking 
"deals, and these guys are preaching to >us< about family values? 

To say nothing of Reagan's daughter, who had her tubes tied to avoid
bringing any more Reagans into the world...

- Steve (masticol@cs.rutgers.edu).
From: c60a-zg@volga.Berkeley.EDU (Martin Guerrero-LabA)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.bush
Subject: Re: Passing out Condoms  (Was Re: Better Off Than Four Years Ago NOT)
Date: 26 Aug 92 21:30:29 GMT
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley

In article <27234@life.ai.mit.edu> benjamin@rice-chex.ai.mit.edu (Benjamin Renaud) writes:
>In article <1992Aug26.024744.6464@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> c60a-zg@volga.Berkeley.EDU (Martin Guerrero-LabA) writes:
>>
>>One thing that bothers me is:
>>  Why is the school, esp. Public schools the one doing the sex ed, and not
>>the family where the primary education should be.   We must be careful not
>>to get to a point where socialism and communistic ideas take a hold of our
>>country.
>
>Why not leaving thermo and existencial philosophy to the family?
>Because it doesn't (in most cases...of course college professors have
>families) know much about it. Why not leaving AIDS education to the
>family? Because in lots of cases the family -IS- incompetent (yes you
>family values people that CAN happen) and doesn't know mich about it.
>It is a MEDICAL ISSUE. It's not like we have public schools teaching
>kids how to give a blow job.

The family is incompetent?  Why not have government take over the role of
the family?  Why not have communes since the family is so incompetent?  Why
not take the children in a family and have government agencies take care
of them?  The family is oppressive anyway.

But the family needs to instill a valued sex education.  If they choose
to, they can send their children to a private organization OF THEIR 
CHOOSING to supplement the family.  There needs to be better communication
between parents and children anyway, and not children and government.
Newsgroups: alt.politics.bush,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.election
From: c60a-zg@volga.Berkeley.EDU (Martin Guerrero-LabA)
Subject: Computer Simulation: Perot/Bush/Clinton
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 03:56:33 GMT

The program used in this article is
   PRESIDENT ELECT: 1988 Version by SSI.

Perot is defined as in my last article.  Generally speaking, he is slightly
left of center.

Initial stats:
   Inflation: 3.0%
   Unemployment: 7.7%
   GNP: 0% (rate of growth)
   Morale: 3 (in a scale of 1-9.  9 equals 'We're Number One!'  3 means
	     'signs of demoralization')

If anyone has better stats, please tell.

Using Perot Number One:
1. Clinton	3	42%
   BUSH		535	53%
   Perot	0	5%
2. Clinton	189	44%
   BUSH 	349	46%
   Perot	0	10%
3. Clinton	207	45%
   BUSH		331	47%
   Perot	0	8%

So far:
  Clinton: 0-3
  Bush: 3-0
  Perot: 0-3


Using Perot Number Two:
1. Clinton	97	40%
   BUSH		441	49%
   Perot	0	10%
2. Clinton	102	43%
   BUSH		436	47%
   Perot	0	10%
3. Clinton	156	43%
   BUSH		382	45%
   Perot	0	11%

Totals so far:
  Clinton: 0-6
  Bush: 6-0
  Perot: 0-6

But in a two man race, the results are:
  Clinton: 6-4
  Bush: 4-6


Anyone have any suggestions to improve this simulation?

Newsgroups: alt.politics.bush
From: jason@ab20.larc.nasa.gov (Jason Austin)
Subject: Re: Clarence Thomas
Reply-To: Jason C. Austin <j.c.austin@larc.nasa.gov>
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 18:27:48 GMT

In article <1992Aug30.221319.2770@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> bx822@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ben Hansen) writes:
-> 
->  Is there a Republican out there willing to defend the appointment
-> of Clarence Thomas to the Supreme Court? He is the judicial 
-> equivalent of dragging drunks to the polls on election day, to
-> the point of physically helping them pull the lever. He is 
-> additionally a slap in the face to African-Americans, by 
-> condescenscion. Are conservatives proud of the law he makes?
-> Did he ask a question this term? I would be embarrassed to have
-> this man defending my ideology.
-> -- 
-> Ben Hansen
-> bx822@cleveland.freenet.edu

	How about a few examples of what he's done that you're all in
a huff about.  I can guarantee you that he will never make a law on
the Supreme Court, and his decisions to date have reflected a
conservative ideal which is why Bush appointed him.  
-- 
Jason C.Austin 
j.c.austin@larc.nasa.gov

Newsgroups: alt.politics.bush,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.elections
From: andy@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (Andy Freeman)
Subject: Re: FAQ: The Record Thing
Organization: /usr/lib/news/organizatoin
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 16:04:47 GMT

In article <1992Sep2.150224.28781@m5.harvard.edu> borden@m5.harvard.edu writes:
>In article <1992Sep1.222411.12082@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> andy@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (Andy Freeman) writes:
>>In article <3T5DqB3w164w@mintir.new-orleans.la.us> elendil@mintir.new-orleans.la.us (Edward J. Branley) writes:
>>>
>>>What Clinton proposes is more dramatic than 1990, since that was a compromise
>>>that was hammered out by two diametrically opposed groups.  Clinton's economic
>>>plan calls for tax increases to control the deficit and re-direction of
>>>spending from areas where it is not necessary (certain defense expenditures,
>>>for example) into areas where the government can make a contribution to the
>>>overall economy, such as job training, education, etc.
>>
>>The 1990 "compromise" was over how far to move in that direction; it
>>did all of those things.  The Clinton plan is more dramatic; it goes
>>farther.  Will more of the same really be an improvement?
>>
>The 1990 compromise controlled the deficit?  Then why do we have the largest
>budget deficit ever?

No, the 1990 compromise did not control the deficit.  Since Clinton's
plan uses the same "increase taxes and `invest more', to grow out of
the deficit" measures to control the deficit, why will it be any more
successful?  It won't be?  Oops.

-andy
--
UUCP:    {arpa gateways, sun, decwrl, uunet, rutgers}!cs.stanford.edu!andy
ARPA:    andy@cs.stanford.edu
Newsgroups: alt.politics.bush
From: jewell@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Larry Jewell)
Subject: Re: Clinton blunder
Organization: Purdue University
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 13:51:18 GMT

In article <1992Aug31.124201.12832@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> jlinder@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Jeffrey S Linder) writes:
>How did President Bush screw up the hurricane relief effort?
>
>Jeff.

Outright leadership failure.  With a Class 4 hurricane coming, do you pre-stage
your equipment to react in minimum time for deployment to areas where they're
needed?  Do you send representatives of FEMA to stay by the Governors of states
which may be affected?  Do you prepare for a major disaster, and then relax
ONLY if prompt response is not needed?  With 12 years to control such federal
agencies, do you make sure that the appointees are competent and can react
appropriately when needed?

Only if you are a leader.

Only if you are NOT a political hack who's looking for a second term of 
national mismanagement.

Maybe I thought of these things because I'm NOT running for office.

Larry J
-- 
#Larry W. Jewell (ex-USN)     WWII-L Listowner    jewell@mace.cc.purdue.edu # 
#"Sunday's horoscope is noteworthy because of its strange, sudden and wholly#
#unpredictable and inexplicable occurrences, affecting all phases of life." #
#--"Your Horoscope," L.A. Evening Herald Express, Saturday, Dec. 6, 1941.   #
Newsgroups: alt.politics.bush,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.elections
From: nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson)
Subject: Re: Passing out Condoms (Was Re: Better Off Than Four Years Ago NOT)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 20:28:20 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA

In article <1992Aug27.180359.28549@den.mmc.com> sims@possum.den.mmc.com (John Sims) writes:
>nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes:
>
>>  But, (AGAIN!) : they aren't doing it.   So what about all the teenagers
>>  who are out there *now* having sex, making babies, and catching STD's,
>>  (some of which are fatal)?
>How interesting, that you stereotype all parents this way. 

  How am I stereotyping all parents?  I am merely pointing out the
  undeniable: that millions of families DON'T provide such guidance.
  What are you going to offer those children?


>>  Fine, but as I said before THIS IS HYPOTHETICAL.  Because NOBODY
>>  has a plan, resources, etc, in place to even attempt this. And there
>>  is no agreement about how to do it anyway -- e.g., there is very 
>>  broad diasgreement among the "experts" about why blacks, say, have
>>  such a high rate of unwed motherhood.   And it's totally academic
>>  to all the kids who are today growing up in dysfunctional or nonexistent
>>  families now.
>
>No, its not hypothetical, just don't want to hear the answer.  You folks
>don't want to accept the fact that the church can be a very positive
>force in this area, both in building up families, and helping educate
>children. 

  Read what you wrote!   "Can be" is a conditional.  This is what I mean
  by hypothetical.   "Can be" is not the same as "is".  The church has
  been one of the central institutions in the black community for 
  a century or more.  A huge percentage of black leaders in the US
  have either been clergymen or sons and daughters of clergymen. But
  this has not prevented blacks from having an astronomical rate of
  unwed motherhood.   What is your plan?   What *specifically* do you
  think ought to be done?   I don't want any hand-waving "we all have
  to change our attitudes and raise our children better" -- that's
  an empty platitude.   What are you proposing we do TODAY about
  14 and 15 year old kids who are having sex and producing babies?          
  If you were emperor what specific steps would you take?


>>  BY ALL MEANS promote healthy, functional families, if you think
>>  you know how.  But how long will that take?  And what will you do
>>  about the kids who are having unprotected sex and making babies
>>  right now?   
>And just how is dispensing free condoms going to change it?  The last
>time I checked, they aren't expensive.  I don't think the cost is the
>issue, its the usage.  If you give them away, just how
>are you going to make sure they're used?

  There's no way -- I'm sure only a small % will reliably use them.  
  But at least THOSE kids will reduce their risk of AIDS, other STD's
  and pregnancy.                                       


---peter




Newsgroups: alt.politics.bush
From: lcypher@nuchat.sccsi.com (Louis Cypher)
Subject: Re: trust
Organization: /etc/organization
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 23:14:15 GMT

In article <1992Aug27.173547.17277@digibd.com> merlyn@digibd.com (Merlyn LeRoy) writes:
>c60a-zg@volga.Berkeley.EDU (Martin Guerrero-LabA) writes:
>>Personally, one of my yardsticks in choosing a president is:
>>   Who would you rather be friends with?   Who would you prefer to be your
>>close relative?
>>Personally speaking, Bush wins hands down.
>
>Bush can't win this one with me, simply because he considers my religious
>views so reprehensible; it seems I don't believe in his god, so he doesn't
>consider me to be a patriot or a citizen, or (apparently) worthy of any
>respect.  This kind of bigotry I can do without.
>
>---
>Merlyn LeRoy

This is oh so true...I have met both Clinton and Bush, and frankly,
Clinton is much more my type. I can't even stand to look at Bush
without thinking of the hate and fearmongering he throws out at
various groups of people, such as atheists, homosexuals, etc, et all.

Besides, Bush has TERRIBLE taste.(not that this affects my vote, but
somebody might be interested)...an Uncle of mine moved into Bush's
old house down here in Houston. The carpets were so revolting he 
had them all torn out. They were THICK, puke-green shag, and do you
know where the carpet(actually the remnants) is now? It is in my
doghouse out back....I was thinking while the convention was here
I might be able to make some money from seeling the putrid carpet,
but then thought the only person with taste like that would be Bush
himself....Just an interesting little story....

Anybody want to buy a piece of Bush's beutiful carpet? For a WHOLE
1 foot square piece(dog hair and all), I will GIVE it away for, oh
.50 cents....anybody?
From: mjenkins@alfred.carleton.ca (Michael Jenkinson)
Subject: A new campaign slogan
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 12:04:54 GMT

Me thinks the Republicans have missed a really obvious shot at the
Democratic ticket.

I mean, sure, they're painting Clinton and Al as big-spending liberals
who will increase the deficit and being soft on crime...

...but Bush should say something like, "If you vote for Bill and Gore,
that's what you're going to get, bills and gore!"

Flames to the above address. :)

Michael
Newsgroups: alt.politics.bush
From: jlinder@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Jeffrey S Linder)
Subject: Re: Bush/Florida/Hurricane Andrew
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 12:49:06 GMT

In article <5iNaqB4w164w@mintir.new-orleans.la.us> elendil@mintir.new-orleans.l
a.us (Edward J. Branley) writes:
>I've been watching CNN this afternoon, listening to Gov. Lawton Chiles and
>other Floridians, while watching scenes of the aftermath of the hurricane and
>the continuation of relief efforts.  What struck me about the whole discussion
>with Chiles is that there must be a lot of angry voters in South Florida right
>now.  Angry voters who have their Congresscritters down there with them
>pitching in to help.  It's going to be hard for the President to duck
>responsibility for the slowness of the response time of FEMA and the military
>in providing help.

Once Gov. Chiles asked for help from the military (only he can ask) the
military responed within 24 hours.
>
>This means that Bush and his surrogates are going to have to spend more time
>and money in FL than they had planned.  They've all but conceded CA to Clinton
,
>and this new requirement in FL now means they've probably already lost Texas,
>since Clinton is leading there and they're going to have to re-direct resource
s
>to FL.
>
>With CA and TX gone, they've got to fight for FL.  I don't know if that's goin
g
>to be even possible, however.  Of course, given the way FEMA handled things
>after Hugo in Charleston, all those people in South FL may not have homes or
>voting places by November...
>
>
>
>
>|Edward J. Branley                         elendil@mintir.New-Orleans.LA.US|
>|Seashell Software                                UUCP:  rex!mintir!elendil|
>|3508 North Woodlawn Avenue                          Compu$erve: 71237,2227|
>|Metairie, LA   70006       voice: +1-504-455-5087     bbs: +1-504-455-8665|
Xref: sparky alt.politics.bush:3412 alt.politics.clinton:3440 alt.politics.elections:11913
From: greenie@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.politics.bush,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.elections
Subject: Live Electronic Conference On The Elections
Date: 29 Aug 92 15:43:49 GMT
Organization: Carnegie Mellon Computer Club

I'm posting this message for the Conference Hosts;

The IDS World Network will be holding a "live", CB-Simulator chat conference
on the 1992 election and the candidates.  Topics currently being considered
include The Economy, Healthcare, Education, Family Values, Abortion, and
"World Leadership Role".

The first discussion will take place on September 4th from 7PM EST until
9:30PM EST.

We invite everyone to participate.  CB Chat discussions on the IDS World
Network are completely free.

To reach the IDS World Network, TELNET to ids.net [155.212.1.2].  If you have
an account already, you're all set, although you can apply for one by signing
on with GUEST as a username.

That's September 4th, 7PM EST on the IDS World Network CB Simulator.
telnet ids.net [155.212.1.2]
Xref: sparky alt.politics.bush:2909 talk.politics.theory:3867