HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Wed, 9 Sep 1992 07:54:29 EDT
From:         K=A*T <MEC038@UKCC.UKY.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Bad v. Harmful
              9 Sep 1992 07:25:06 EDT from <MEC038@UKCC.UKY.EDU>

One more thing, Jimbo:

Is lying bad?  Only if hurts other people.

Is playing the music loud on a park-bench sitting next to another
person bad?  Not if that person is deaf.

Is forgetting your anniversary's date bad?  You betcha!   :-)
No really.  Is that bad?  Not if your spouse doesn't mind
and is not hurt/harmed.

Another one of those "X" statements.  (For those of you who are
algebraically-impaired you may want to replace "X" with "she has
gained weight."  But we don't know anything else about the situation.
For example, we don't know whether she is recovering from a serious
ailment during which she had lost a lot of weight and gaining
weight now would be a sign of recovery or that she has been hopelessly
trying to lose weight for many years.)

KAT:   Jimbo, yesterday I said "X" to my secretary.  Was that bad?
Jimbo: I don't know, KAT, was she hurt?

KAT:   Jimbo, yesterday I said "X" to my secretary.  Was that harmful?
Jimbo: I don't know, KAT, what you said, was it bad?

Now, it seems to me that the first set of Q/A is more
reasonable/logical than the second one.

What do you say?  As I said before, *I* am not sure any more.

--KAT
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Date:         Sun, 6 Sep 1992 14:11:25 EST
From:         macphil <IQTI400@INDYCMS.IUPUI.EDU>
Subject:      The origin of AIDS
Comments: To: Forum for the Discussion of Politics <POLITICS@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu>
              5 Sep 1992 09:42:27 -0400 from <KILBURN@WVSVAX.WVN ET.EDU>

On Sat, 5 Sep 1992 09:42:27 -0400 <KILBURN@WVSVAX.WVNET.EDU> said:
>> Tell ya' what.  Pick an AIDS case, oh just any one of 'em.  Trace the chain
>> ALLLLLLLLLLLL the way back to its origin.  Just what did you find?
>
>An African monkey with a perfectly harmless virus. . .

this is still considered to be a *potential* source, not the definitive
source.  the origins are still being speculated heavily.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The lesser of two evils is still evil." - Winston Churchill

MacPhil / iqti400@indycms.bitnet / iqti400@indycms.iupui.edu
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Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 1992 09:32:00 EST
From:         JCOCURUL@DREW.BITNET
Subject:      Re: It's always the money

In article <tfilt319892@drew.edu>, Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET> writes
   :
> Uh, Chris:
>
> the scribes were doing so, the entire copy was destroyed.  The
> accuracy of the autographs is confirmed by the number of copies, by the
> Septuagint, and by the Dead Sea Scrolls.  And, there are more than 5000
> copies in ancient Greek of all or portions of the New Testament.  Although
> there are some minor differences in those manuscripts, none deal with
> doctrinal issues.
>
> Whatever the legitimate Bible used, there is no disagreement on the
> basic tenets--the 10 commandments, the greatest commandment, and
> the sermon on the mount--that form the foundation of Judeo-Christian
> morality.

The Septuagint or Greek version of the bible has many differences than
the Hebrew version.  Many new testament scriptural references was
based on the septuagint, not the Hebrew version.  The Greek
translation of many verses confused several phrases and put in
question various attempts to connect New Testament events with
old testament references.  We also have no idea how accurate the bible is
to the intent of the orginal writers since we don't have the original
versions to compare them to -- we have trouble finding scraps from
earlier than the 100s.  The Dead Sea Scrolls don't have the complete
canon, and we don't know where the Essenes or whoever got them from.
We don't even have a clear idea how the Resurrection took place with
four versions, one (Mark the earliest and most accurate) mostly lost.

>
> --Missy P 2 B
>
  -Joe
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Date:         Tue, 15 Sep 1992 13:57:57 CDT
From:         fred <CCHILDER@UNMCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      hollywood is evil but i'll take their money

Robert:

Clinton may have had some big dollar campaign functions but it takes
money to fight money. The demo ticket has also logged a lot of hard
miles on the bus curcuit to meet the public face to face.

I think it is tremendously cynical of the republican ticket to target
hollywood as the source of all evil in our society and at the same time
use the hollywood influence to pick up big bucks. I know that some of
you will think that bob hope is a pure and virtuous (sp?) man, but he
doesn't have all those well endowed women on his shows because he is
a puritan.

fred
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Date:         Mon, 14 Sep 1992 13:10:00 EST
From:         linda <SABOE@VUVAXCOM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Term Limits

>In Pennsylvania, a political neophyte is giving an incumbant Senator (Spector)
>a real run for his money.  She (I don't remember her name) came out of

her name is lynn yeakel (sp?)

-linda
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Date:         Sat, 5 Sep 1992 18:26:50 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: homosexuality
              5 Sep 1992 20:17:20 GMT from <jwales@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU>

Jimbo:

Wrong again.  "Base impulses" are things *individuals* ought
to be able to control.  I think you got that point.

HOWEVER, when they fail to do so (control those impulses), something
else must be set up to see that they do.  Government is a *last*
resort, but it is a legitimate one.  I did *not* mean to imply that
people ought to be left alone to *exercise* those impulses, but
to *responsibly* control them.  When they fail to do so, they lose
corresponding legal and social rights.  When you exceed the speed
limit (we do not send the police along in your car with you to
watch you drive and pull your foot off the gas pedal when you are
misbehaving), and you are unrepentant about it, and state that you
intend to do it again (or actually do it), the state may restrict or
remove your driver's license.  When you steal something, the state
can take away your freedom to roam the community stealing things.

Liberty comes with responsibility.  If you abuse it, you lose it.

--Missy P 2 B
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
From: jwales@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (jimmy donal wales)
Subject: Re: KAT is bad if and only if Jimbo is harmful
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 23:00:12 GMT


I hereby give all members of the POLITICS list permission to come
swim in my pool anytime they wish, provided that they agree to
pay the damages in case they break something and provided that I
never ever find out about it or am affected in any way.  (So I
suppose that rather than PAYING the damages, it would be fine to
just make sure you fix things back like they were.)

In fact, you can do anything you like that doesn't harm me or place
me in any danger of harm.  Be aware that I probably construe 'harm'
quite broadly... but still, swimming in my pool is fine.

--Jimbo

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Date:         Sun, 13 Sep 1992 18:08:32 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Bad v. Harmful
              13 Sep 1992 17:55:08 EDT from <MEC038@UKCC.UKY.EDU>

KAT:

You misunderstood my answer.  I was afraid that might happen.  Let me
try to be more clear.  It would be WRONG for me to deny my citizenship.
It would be WRONG to deny Christ's Lordship in my life.  However, I
KNOW I would not deny Christ.  I must regretfully admit that I am not
certain in my heart that I would not succumb to the temptation to sin
by lying to avoid being taken hostage.  It would not, however, be right.

Now, I could have said, of course I would not lie about my citizenship.
However, it would have been a lie for me to say that because I do not
KNOW that to be the case.  I didn't wish to mislead you into thinking that
I am some kind of paragon that can avoid all temptation to sin, because
that would not be true.  I am a sinner, and I have never said otherwise
since becoming a Christian (before I was a Christian, I had no problem
denying the reality of sin).  In fact, I would go so far as to say
that some of the behavioral sin I have committed, both before and
after salvation, might be seen as far more heinous than some of the
sins we have been discussing here.  However, I do *not* believe it
serves the nation or the culture well to replace ideals of behavior
with behavioral realities.  In other words, I would not want society
to accomodate my sin, because I recognize that it *is* sin.

At any rate, knowing my own ability to fall into sin, I did not think
it would be honest to say that I would definitely admit to my citizenship,
despite the fact that I know it to be the right thing to do.

Is that any clearer?

--Missy P 2 B
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Sat, 12 Sep 1992 23:59:43 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Is homosexuality immoral?

Michael:

I give you the words of Benjamin Franklin to the convention:

  "We have been assured...in the sacred writings that except the Lord
build the house, they labor in vain that build it.  I firmly believe
this.  I also believe that, without His concurring aid, we shall succeed
in this political building no better than the builders of Babel; we
shall be divided by our little, partial, local interests; our projects
will be confounded; and we ourselves shall become a reproach and a
byword down to future ages.  And what is worse, mankind may hereafter,
from this unfortunate instance, despair of establishing government by
human wisdom and leave it to chance, war, or conquest...I therefore
beg leave to move that, henceforth, prayers imploring the assistance
of Heaven and its blessing on our deliberations, be held in this
assembly every morning before we proceed to business."  (quoted
by Norman Cousins, in In God We Trust.)

Franklin was right.  When the nation forgets the God who gave it
birth, it becomes divided by the petty concerns of individual
selfishness.  Today we are seeing the result of 30 years of denial
and rebellion.  We cannot unite because we have no basis on which
to do so.  We are a factionalized people with no foundation.  And it
is time to second Franklin's modest proposal.

--Missy P 2 B
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Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 1992 17:15:12 -0400
From:         Rick George <RIGEORGE@VASSAR.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: ERA

> >>I don't mean to be Mr. Semantic, but "gender" is a grammatical term and,
> >>while popular use may be to the contrary, is not a synonym for "sex",
> >>which has to do with male and female division of a species.  It would
> >>have been incorrect to replace "sex" with "gender" in the ERA.
> >>
> >>...Rick
>
> Well, you better get a letter off to Roget's Thesaurus, they don't seem to
> know.  "Gender" is the first alternative for "sex" in their handy little
> reference.
>
> My other handy little reference, it's called a dictionary, defines gender as
> classification into masculine, feminine and neuter. Gosh, this sounds like
> it could mean differences in anatomy.  Along with this same general definition
   ,
> the word sex also contains *activities*, thus the potential for use/misuse
> of the term in the amendment.
>
> The use of the term *gender* would have removed the implied endorsement of
> perverted sex acts.  That's why they refused!  The largest amount of support
> for the ERA came from the homosexual community.  I wonder why?
>
> ---Robert

According to Fowler's Dictionary of Modern English Usage:  Gender "is
a grammatical term only.  To talk of persons or creatures of the
masculine or feminine g[ender], meaning of the male or female sex, is
either a jocularity (permissible or not according to context) or a
blunder."  Perhaps you are suggesting that the context of the U.S.
Constitution makes jocularity permissible.  Or perhaps you made a
blunder.  Either way, I'll take Fowler over any Roget's thesaurus for
rules of usage.

And my "handy refernce" dictionary (Random House) defines gender
as "a grammatical classification of nouns and pronouns into masculine,
feminine, and neuter."

Substituting the word "gender" for "sex" (apart from being incorrect, as
I have said) does not seem to be too strong a reason to oppose equal
rights.

...Rick
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Date:         Fri, 4 Sep 1992 17:59:10 EDT
From:         Jamie <PL436000@BROWNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: democratic platform/labor unions

MacP:

>When the player/agent and the team/mgmt cannot come to terms, they
>each submit a figure to the arbitrator.  This person then selects
>one of the two values...no compromise, no other figures involved:
>just the two submitted.

Just to ingratiate myself with the History Czars....

This bargaining device has a venerable history. In Athens, in the
good old days, they used such a system for criminal sentencing.
After a conviction, the prosecution would propose a punishment. Then
the defense would propose an alternative punishment. The jury had
to choose between the two, no compromise.

Of course, it was partly because of this system that Socrates was
put to death (after the prosecution proposed a death sentence,
Socrates proposed his alternative: the city should give him a
pension for life. Work out the moral for yourself).

Jamie
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Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 1992 12:26:00 EDT
From:         CMORRISO@SNYESCVA.BITNET
Subject:      RE: Pennies From Heaven

Of all the things around that are funded, are not necessary, and cannot be
afforded, the NEA is very low on my list.  However much of my tax money is
going to it (I really don't think it's that much) I consider to be worthwhile,
whether I like or approve of it or not.

As far as I'm concerned, art is one of those things that may not be necessary
for life, but are necessary for a good life.  And it is important to make sure
that there are a great many sorts of art around.

I'm of course assuming that you're talking about the National Endowment for
the Arts, which has been the subject of discussion.  If anybody wants to do
away with the National Education Association, that would be another story
of course, but I don't think they are funded.  I wonder what old Jesse Helms
would say if he found out that a majority of their members are habitual
pedagogs?  But the theatre is bad enough.  Did you know that the theatre is
filled with habitual thespians?

                                 Chris Morrison
                                 Cmorriso@snyescva.bitnet
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Date:         Tue, 15 Sep 1992 14:45:59 -0500
From:         Jason Briggs Cormier <CORJB@RHODES.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: clinton and college

Missy:

This is about those "Crummy" jobs:  I think that
after NAFTA, Mexicans will be doing them anyway
and if we don't educate our citizens,then they
will be unemployed anyway.

j.b.
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Date:         Fri, 11 Sep 1992 13:40:21 EDT
From:         Janet Perry <JPERRY@ERS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Interest Rates

>>Interest rates--who sets them?
The objective of Federal Reserve policy is to provide a money supply in line
with the national objective of stables prices, economic growth and high
employment.  The Fed sets the interest rate that it loans money to
commercial banks (it also sells bonds).  The commercial banks take that
money and loan it to their best customers using the "prime rate".  That's
why different banks have different rates--they are making money by loaning
at a rate higher that what they borrow it at.   The prime rate reported in
the news is an average of the largest lenders.
For my next lesson, I will describe how to make a loan for $M over lunch, with
particulars drawn out on a damp napkin, and requiring no
collateral, because all the risk of payback will be borne by the FDIC.
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Date:         Fri, 11 Sep 1992 07:30:36 EDT
From:         K=A*T <MEC038@UKCC.UKY.EDU>
Subject:      Re: KAT is bad if and only if Jimbo is harmful
              10 Sep 1992 18:22:23 GMT from <jwales@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU>

From:         jimmy donal wales <jwales@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU>

> But I was harmed in the ex ante sense.  You put my life in serious
> danger.  Only luck saved me.

> I claim now that it is possible that some action might not actually
> have harmed me, but that action is still bad.  When?  Precisely when
> the action harmed me in the ex ante (as opposed to ex post or 'actual)
> sense.

(Jimbo, I think we are converging rapidly.)

I totally agree with your "ex post harm" and "ex ante harm."
You do not consider "ex ante harm" to be actual harm but
consider it bad.  But if I ask you why it is bad you would
answer "because it was ex ante harm."  So it is the concept
of harm (whether ex post or ex ante) which is first recognized
and **THEN** we decide it is bad.  This what I all along was
trying to say.

> --Jimbo

--KAT
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Date:         Mon, 14 Sep 1992 21:18:55 EST
From:         macphil <IQTI400@INDYCMS.IUPUI.EDU>
Subject:      Re: vote early, vote often ...
Comments: To: Forum for the Discussion of Politics <POLITICS@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu>

On Mon, 14 Sep 1992 21:37:18 EDT Jamie said:
>I'm waiting to cast my ballot until I discover which of the
>various candidates is most like Harry Truman. I won't vote for
>anyone who does not in some way resemble Harry, and I will probably
>vote for whomever resembles him in the most salient respects.
>My criterion of course is applicable to both the real election
>and the virtual one.
>Jamie
>(For example, have any of our candidates ordered an atomic bomb
>to be dropped on anyone recently?)


let's not forget the story floating in the media now about Truman
holding the record for the lowest popularity rating(s)!

------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The lesser of two evils is still evil." - Winston Churchill

MacPhil / iqti400@indycms.bitnet / iqti400@indycms.iupui.edu
From: CDELL@UMKCVAX1.BITNET (VALENTINE M. SMITH)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Subject: A quote from WRITERS to stir the waters ...
Date: 13 Sep 92 15:59:39 GMT
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Date: 10 Sep 1992 07:33:32 -0700
From: djl@MAILHOST.PP.PDX.EDU
Subject: Quote of the Day

Theology is never any help;  it is searching in a dark celler at
midnight for a black cat that isn't there.    -- Robert Heinlein,
"Job, A Comedy of Manners."
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Date:         Mon, 14 Sep 1992 22:21:03 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: vote early, vote often ...

Jamie:

I didn't know there *was* an atomic bomb until after Roosevelt died,
either.  (Does that count?)

--Missy P 2 B
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Date:         Sun, 6 Sep 1992 13:41:00 EST
From:         Tyrone Slothrop <199561011@VUVAXCOM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: little answer

jasonz:

so suppose that your employers notice that you have a big zit
on your nose, and they don't like zits, so they fire you.

this is ok?

sounds like bullshit to me.
sounds like something that one could sue for.

brni
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Date:         Tue, 8 Sep 1992 07:23:03 -0400
From:         Rick George <RIGEORGE@VASSAR.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Elizabeth Holtzman: Request for info

>
>   I'm doing a report on Elizabeth Holtzman, who is running for the NY
>Democratic primary for the US Senate race.  Anyone who knows of where
>I could get material on her or knows anything of interest about her
>would be doing be a big favor if they post such info.  Thanks for any
>info available or regret for not having such info.
>
>      -Joe

Joe...

I think that the current issue of the Village Voice has a piece on
Liz Holtzman--it's the one with Euro-Disney on the cover.  It also
has more on the Ferraro/organized crime allegations.  I also think
that there may have been an article on Holtzman in New York magazine
within the last six weeks, but I can't recall for sure.  Obviously,
the New York newspapers of late would be good sources for Liz-info.

Liz Holtman was campaigning at Wigstock yesterday--a drag queen festival
held in Tompkins Square Park.  All of the candidates are really pouring
it on for the September 15 primary.

...Rick
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Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 1992 13:56:51 -0500
From:         ANTHLAL@UMNACVX.BITNET
Subject:      the once and future king

hey-ho, i'm back.  we have resorted to rational discourse (well, more
rational than it has been, anyway...) and i have returned.  here's a
switch...let's talk about politics.
ross perot is now on every ballot in every state in the union except
arizona, since by law they could not file until today.  they expect
to have that lil' problem taken care of by the end of next week.
predictions...over to you, pat buchanan!!!!
well, i'm no pat buchanan, but my prediction is:
perot will re-enter the race.  will take roughly 20% of the national
vote.  will hurt clinton more than bush, but anyway you slice it,
it
is gonna be a squeaker.  perot withdrew, imho, because he saw his
campaign peaking too early.  he also did not want to deal with the
intense scrutiny for any longer than he had to.  i don't think that
this was the best strategy on earth, but, hey, whatever.
diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks.  although what dana plato
has to do with it, i'm not sure.
unca ross was in florida yesterday or today or something.  i only saw a
portion of it on cnn...i was walking through coffman union, dodging the pro-life
   and pro-choice folk demonstrating on the mall...and anyway, he *personally*
guaranteed that if you donate to the salvation army, that money will
get directly to housing, clothing, and food projects.  thanks, ross,
i'll breathe a little easier tonight.
perot:  leader!
perot:  catalyst for change!
perot:  vacillator!
perot:  the man who knows enough to get the hell out of dodge while the
        gettin's good...but will go back when he remembers where he
        buried the gold in his yard!

                         + + + anneliese "perot-noid schizophrenic" l.
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