From: jahnke@biosci.arizona.edu (Jerome Jahnke)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm
Subject: Re: **ATTN: Ripped off by Frank Price? (Hermes Author) ***
Date: 11 Dec 92 19:50:26 GMT
Organization: Biology Learning Center

In article <iscjcw-071292131833@ajax.ucop.edu>, iscjcw@uccvma.ucop.edu (Jerry Wilcox) writes:
> 
> In article <1992Dec5.142933.1@tesla.njit.edu>, erh0362@tesla.njit.edu
> (Elliotte Rusty Harold) wrote:
> > 
> >     Seems to me this poster did inform everyone.  And I don't see that he did 
> > anything illegal.  Did Congress make unauthorized dissemination or 
> > possession of character strings illegal while I wasn't looking?
> > If not I think the use of the words "crook" and "Committing crimes" to describe 
> > this post is unjustified and mandates an apology.
> 
> Let me see if I understand you, Elliotte. If I get ahold of your telephone
> calling card "character string" or your Mastercard "character string", or
> your Swiss Bank Account "character string" you are saying it is OK to post
> these in public? How about the password to your CompuServe account or
> wherever else you have an account? How about the account at your
> institution that lets someone change your grades or salary or library
> access? I think the premise you are stating is ridiculous, of course those
> items can't be freely posted

Sure it is legal to post them, it is illegal to use them. This is the 
distinction everyone is looking for. It is legal to know how to build a
nuclear bomb, it is even legal to post information on how to build a nuclear
bomb,it is illegal to build one. I think that the way the orginator of this 
thread handled his problems with Frank Price III was a bit on the stupid side
but I doubt that a court of law can do much.

Getting my credit card number and posting it to a service such as this could
be expensive for me. BUT if you did not use it you wont get in trouble (as
long as I don't bump into one night). It would really piss me off, and I if
I saw such a thing I would immedately call VISA and tell them to get me a new
card and void the other number (which would pay hell with compuserve and 
america online who would stop getting paid, and I would have to fix that as
well).

> There have been numerious prosecutions of individuals posting calling card
> numbers, credit card numbers, system passwords and the like. It is MY
> opinion (and just an opinion) that if Price wanted to take the guy who
> posted the validation string for HIS copyrighted software (assuming he DID
> copyright) to court, the courts would find the guy guilty. If anything,
> what this turkey did was worse than most of the above, because you can
> change your password, calling card number, etc., with relative ease, but
> there are thousands of copies of Hermes around which may now be stolen with
> little or no recourse.

I don't think they prosecuted for posting the information as much as they do
for using the information. When I was a lad I used to get $25 a piece for
credit card carbons. A guy down the street bought them from us, and we spent
hours in the dumpster. He got caught, we got caught, my parents threatend to 
kill me, but according to the family laywer they could not prosecute me.

> I think YOU better wake up and smell the coffee, Elliotte
> -----------
> Jerry Wilcox - iscjcw@uccvma.ucop.edu
> All opinions expressed are MINE -- I'd have a different job if the
> University wanted me to speak for it.

Anyway you had best wake up and smell the coffee, at best this is a grey area,
it is not a cut and dried black. The people who are commiting the crime are
the people who are using the numbers, not the person who posts them.

Jer,
----
Jerome Jahnke
Biology Learning Center
University of Arizona
'jahnke@biosci.arizona.edu' or +1 (602) 621-3820