From: snoopy@spacemanspiff.den.mmc.com (Cindy Newell)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv.soaps
Subject: Re: DOOL: TAN: Multiple Responses
Date: 20 Aug 92 21:21:25 GMT
Organization: Denver, Colorado

In article <46667@shamash.cdc.com> Doreen) writes:
> Rick Morris writes:

>>I used to have a joke about a relationship before and after marrage.

>Please don't take this personally, Rick, but I wasn't too amused by
>that joke.  Maybe it's all this wedding stress I'm going through, and
>constantly being quoted the divorce rates these days by thoughtless
>people who don't know me very well.  After 5 years and living together
>for 2, we are very secure that our marriage will survive.

I just wanted to add my $0.02 here since I just took the plunge 2 weeks
ago. 

>>What happens is that the new partner (and I speak from a male perspective
>>here.  I'm sure it works both ways) gets jealous of the life before
>>her.  If the history didn't include her, she wants it OUTTA THERE.
>>Marrage requires a commitment BY BOTH PARTNERS to
>>   1)  Give up what was yours alone.
>>   2)  Accept what was hers/his alone.
>
>I can't believe that is true in most marriages.  It is very important
>for both husband and wife to keep their separate identies as well as
>form a new identity as a couple.  The two can smother each other with
>too much togetherness.  I realize that Matt had a past before me, and
>I don't expect him to forget it.  What he was before we met makes him
>the man I love today.  The same goes for both ways.

I totally agree!!!!  Steve and I are very different type people.  We
have both agreed that we need our own identities as well as our
identity together.  I refuse to just become "someone's wife."  I 
still am the same person as I was 2 weeks ago.  My needs haven't changed.  
Steve and I will give up some things for each other but neither of us 
expect to have to give up the things that make us individuals.  We are
one now, but we also have to be 2. 

>>So, why do marrages fail so often today?  Men REQUIRE their women to accept
>>them WITHOUT CHANGE.  "I ain't changing for NO CHICK, man!"  Men on the
>>other hand require the woman to change.  Many women won't stand for it
>>anymore.  I hope you, little shrub, demand respect from this guy you are
>>marrying.  Don't let him get away with any of this male stuff like
>>requiring you to have dinner on the table after you worked all day just
>>like him.  Like not helping clean the house.  Like demanding his night
>>out with the boys while you have to stay home and watch the kids.
>>And that goes for the rest of you out there.  It changes after marrage.

Things don't have to change!!  

Agreements have to made in the beginning and followed through or 
else one may take advantage of the other as we see in so many marriages 
today.  It is really unfortunate.  I am seeing this sort of thing in 
my family right now with my older sister who is now getting a divorce :-(, 
although their problems go much much deeper than just cleaning house.

>Luckily, we both respect each other as individuals and both try to
>help the other out with all things around the house, etc.  Unfortunately,
>some relationships are much more one sided, and Rick, I agree that those
>women (and men) shouldn't have to put up with it.  But, I do think that
>the husband should have his "night out with the guys" just as well as
>the wife should have her "girls night out" every once in a while.

Amen to that!  :-)

>>The grip gets real tight, and it's for the rest of your life.  Like
>>The Quince says, that piece of paper really makes a difference.

I was watching Oprah yesterday afternoon.  They subject was "Men
who Neglect Their Wives After Marriage."  Two of the guys were saying
that one they had "that piece of paper" that the race was won.  They
felt they didn't need to continue affectionate communication (notes,
flowers, phone calls, etc) after they got married, because it should
be understood by the wives that they still love them.  

>I honestly do not believe that my relationship with Matt will change
>(in two weeks) once those nuptuals take place -- except get better.
>As long as two people keep up the communication, the humor, the mutual
>respect, and the good loving...

I agree!  Wow, only 2 weeks Papaya.  It will go so fast.  

>-- Doreen

Pickle

PS - Papaya, take a few deep breathes and just relax!!!!
-- 
 Cindy Camp - Usual disclaimers apply
 Martin Marietta Astronautics Group  (303)977-9804
 snoopy@spacemanspiff.den.mmc.com  (if that doesn't work try)
 cnewell@azum.den.mmc.com