From: don@chester (Don McCoy)
Subject: Re: What about date rape? (was: Prostitution as a cure...)
Organization: University of Delaware, College of Marine Studies
Distribution: talk.rape
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 04:20:38 GMT

In article <1992Oct9.185005.27227@news.nd.edu> slarsen@berlin.helios.nd.edu 
(susan larsen) writes:
>
 . . . [deleted]
>
>If a young man pursues dating as a means of acquiring sex 
>acceptably and, further, his culture encourages dating as 
>a societally-approved means of acquiring sex, I would 
>suggest that less thoughtful or less sensitive young men could 
>begin to see sex as a pay off or even an entitlement based 
>on his "investment" in and expectations of dating.  Inject 
 . . . [stuff deleted]

Good point.  Later you talk about changing attitudes toward
dating as a means for sex.  But first let me ask whether you think
having sex is the real issue.  I suspect that sex is merely a 
manifestation of a young adult's desire to gain acceptability
both in hir own mind and with others.  You say that dating is
a vehicle for sex; i think sex is a vehicle for self esteem (well,
in cases where the potential for date rape exist).  The statements
are compatible.  I agree that 'changing attitudes' is what's needed.

Two things might be wrought out of all this:  1) How does one
develop a healthy view towards sex in a culture that discourages
openess on the topic (in most cases) and 2) How do you learn to 
respect other's opinions even when you disagree (e.g. about whether
to have sex or not).  

I don't have answers.  I don't even know that these are the right 
questions.  What's a "healthy view towards sex" exactly?  One thing
comes to mind that I've heard somewhere before. Open communication 
is necessary between couples *before* they find themselves in a
situation where their needs and wants conflict.  This doesn't
apply to the hypothetical scum-sucking pig that encourages a woman
to drink a lot, say, with the _intent_ of making her a bit more
pliable.  These are no different than stranger rapists, with a 
slight twist in technique.  It does apply to (I think) the vast 
majority of younger people who haven't come to terms with their
feelings towards sex and dating.  Discussion with your partner may
(nay, *will*) help.

Now I'll get a little preachy.  Why do people associate sex with
words like "dirty" and so on.  Clearly it is not.  For me, sex 
between two consenting people is fine, provided their motives are
not selfish.  And yes, the person who seeks sex as a replacement
for self esteem is being selfish.For the most part, I believe that
archaic attitudes about sex, that is, many "christian" attitudes
prevent it from being discussed openly both in the family and in
relationships.  (sorry for that last part, just MHO).

>attitude that could be readily changed is the idea that "Men always 
>pay."  By sharing dating costs, there would no longer exist any 
>obligation to perform based on monetary considerations.  Given  
>this, dating expectations should shift away from sex and more 
>toward companionship.  

I agree, but I think it's changing.  I, for one, haven't been in a
relationship where both don't share the costs.

>Any comments?

Apparently so.  Sometimes I can go on, and on, and on and on...
Hope it makes sense. 

..don...
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