From: mistik@mistik.anatolia.mn.org (Mustafa Soysal)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: continued lack of concepts of Spiros Triantafyllopoulos
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 92 02:00:52 EDT
Organization: N.A.


[Sorry if this appears twice, the previous one did not seem to make it to
 the net. 
]

> From: by403@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos)
> Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
> Subject: continued misconceptions of Mustafa...
> Date: 9 Sep 1992 01:23:27 GMT
> Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
> Lines: 204
> Message-ID: <18jjmfINNkir@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>
> NNTP-Posting-Host: slc10.ins.cwru.edu
> 
> 
> [This message contains embedded control characters at the beginning and end
> of each paragraph. To find out why, read the ending paragraph first. Tri*]

No explanation there either.  Must be more secret messages.

And with that CLAPping business, you watch too much TV.  Or if you are
trying to pull off tricks, they don't work too well with me.

  <CLAP CLAP CLAP>

> 
> > My posting was just a response to someone saying that any business
> > announcement would be inappropiate.  And you got so scared that all
> > these Turkish and Muslim people could start networking by means of
> > announcements now.
> 
> CLAP-ON Interesting. all you see is "turks/muslims" and everyone else.
> Who's got the binary brain? Have you seen me complain about postings
> is other groups (i.e. the Makedonians, Pakistanis, Bosnians, etc). CLAP-OFF

No, you are the one targeting Turks and Muslims.  See the last paragraph.

> 
> CLAP-ON (exhibit A entered into Mustafa's binary brain...) CLAP-OFF

Unary brain of Spriros did not produce any information to go anywhere.

> 
> CLAP-ON Face it, Mustafa Bey. It has NOTHING to do with NATIONALITY,
> ETHNICITY, or RELIGION. It's, as we say, PERSONAL. I find net.lawyer,
> trailblazer.peddling, 'blind'.headhunter.ads, Macedonian.claims,
> comp.sources.os2, VMS, Sophie.Miao, and many other parts of the net
> silly.  But I don't flame them. (ESENA THELW RE!) CLAP-OFF

Aha, personal vendetta.

> 
> > I see, you drank too much ouzo yesterday.  First bitch when they write,
> > then bitch when they don't write.  Is bitching all your purpose in this
> > life?
> 
> CLAP-ON A good part of it. Just like your pals at the
> 'Mut*u/Cos*r/Kel*y/Et.Al. Posting house'. But, how come you're so fast in
> responding to my articles? I posted mine Monday evening and ahoy and
> behold, i have a reply immediately, Thuesday morning. CLAP-OFF

What did you expect, a week turnaround? What is soo strange about it?
Maybe you are underestimating me.  I might give you more turnaround time
just for a change though. 

> 
> > Aren't you a little off the subject yet? Back to anouncements please. 
> > You are trying hard to make the subject wonder away.  What does this
> > have to do with the properness of announcements in this newsgroup? And
> > while you are at remembering, who scanned someone's picture in violation
> > of copyright law and put it on ftp?  Any relations between you and that group?
> 
> CLAP-ON Boy, your ignorance is cramping my vital organs. I was not the
> one to scan the picture of Hasan (may he rest in obscurity), nor was I
> the one to put it 'on ftp' (what terminology). So you're barking up
> the wrong 'Tri*'. Nice dodging on the 'who put the porno gifs' and the
> 'who forged the message to alt.binaries.pictures.*' issues... CLAP-OFF

You are the ignorant one, and again, what has that ftp thread to do with
posting announcements?

> 
> CLAP-ON As for copyright violations, could you explain to me whether
> posting pretty much the entire works of "Men Are Like That", etc, etc
> etc from the mut*u/Cos*r/Kel*y/Et.Al. posting house violates copyright
> laws which specifically mention electronic media? Nooooo.  I wrote a note
> presenting some fairly decent (even for Tri*) arguments but Mutley got
> his account canned at mcs.com before the mut*u/Cos*r/Kel*y/Et.Al. posting
> house could reply. They should be available on tape somewhere. CLAP-OFF

There is acceptable use regarding educational matters, and personal use. 
Quoting, as long as given the source and in part, is accepted.  If you feel
otherwise, feel free to write letters to the publishers.

> 
> CLAP-ON If you want to talk issues and not idiotic postings, how about the
> idiotic comments of mut*u for all these years? How about Cos*r refusing he
> had anything to do with the forged posts till "the bell rang?"? How about
> mut*u's token posts to soc.culture.jewish? How about KELLY? CLAP-OFF. 

How about your points regarding announcements?  Have got any?

> 
> > Your misconception, it is a free net.  Your censorship does not go
> > beyond your machine.  Why are you trying to explain anything anyway?
> > I got my own brains and don't need your nurturing.
> 
> CLAP-ON You got what? Is that why you found a blatant advertisment
> posted in mostly unrelated groups "acceptable"? Is this why you found
> mut*u's crosspostings from news.admin to soc.culture.australia,
> soc.culture.jewish, news.groups, and alt.test "acceptable"? CLAP-OFF

I have got what you apparently haven't.

As for the announcement, I posted to soc.culture.turkish only, as my
point is related to soc.culture.turkish only.  Do all the bitching you
want in the other groups.  But a Greek person trying to decide what to
be posted at the Turkish group looks a bit off.  Don't get me wrong, I
am not implying that you should not.  But if you do the way you do, your
motivation is obvious. 

> 
> > > to you that I don't like certain people because of their actions, NOT
> > > because of their ethnicity? Did you ever complain when Happyface and
> > > Co. were cross-posting their guts for four years? NOOOOOO.
> > 
> > Why should I complain? Because you would like it? They are doing a good
> > job in wrecking you, and I get all smileys watching it happen.
> 
> CLAP-ON (Notice the limited vocabulary: 'wreck' has appeared in several
> instances) Who wrecked who? Was I asked to post an apology? (two
> actually, if you count the lame one). Did I get my accounts canned from
> lots of machines? Did I forge postings idiotically? Did I post articles
> from non-existing hosts for months at a time? CLAP-OFF

Again, nothing to do with this thread.

> 
> > Ah, what challenges you in my postings? As I said, you aren't getting
> > entertained, you are getting exposed.  Have you noticed yet?
> 
> CLAP-ON If I weren't getting entertained, I would not be posting these.
> Simple. But the CLAPPER-FOR-BRAIN can't think otherwise, can it? CLAP-OFF

Your preference for the form of entertainment is a statement about you.

> 
> #include <cascade.h>

Oh really, and I am doing it all by myself, right?

> > > > > > Mustafa Soysal
> > > > > 
> > > > > But still no kute .signature
> > > 
> > > > Sorry, I am not here to please you.  Do you think the world should
> > > > revolve around you?
> > > 
> > > Nah, should the world revolve around me I'd have to buy me a suit and tie
> > > to look good on the evening news. (In Greek "Se doulevw reeeee").
> > 
> > So why are you trying to get entertainment so hard? Can't live without
> > hassles?
> 
> CLAP-ON Because I live in a "culturally challenged" part of the United States.
> (Indianapolis, IN), where "every 'mut*u's' cherished, every 'Cos*r's'
> appreciated, every 'Soysal's' enjoyed at its best"... CLAP-OFF

Does that read "I am better"?  Are you arian as well?

Still no statements on the announcements.  

> 
> > > > Who cares whether or not if you are impressed.  Do you think people are
> > > > trying to entertain you? I don't think any posting of you is reasonable,
> > > > but who cares?  Are you going to stop posting because of that?
> > > 
> > > Here's exhibit A your honor: Cable TV at $23.95 a month. Usenet is free.
> > > Which one is more entertaining? Usenet, of course. At ANY PRICE.
> > 
> > I bet some are entertained very well by your postings.  That means you
> > are in show business now, put on the suit and tie.
> 
> CLAP-ON Suits and Ties are for the "voluntarily unemployed"
> (consultants :-)) and grad students when they show up for interviews.
> In fact, I don't even OWN a suit.  (These big&tall sizes never go on
> sale, sigh). I do own a few ties, though. CLAP-OFF

Try cutting down the ouzo.

> 
> > That is a wreck.  Quick, Mr mut*u, he needs it really bad.
> 
> CLAP-ON Do you have a fetish for the word 'wreck'? And 'Mr. mut*u?' CLAP-OFF

It is your statement that you had withdrawal symptoms.  And wreck
describes you very well.

> 
> > > (he actually has a cute .signature, but it's made out of non-printable 
> chars, 
> > > like \033\011\012\012\012\011\001\001\000\000\000). 
> > 
> > So, did you decode them yet?  It might be a secret message.
> 
> CLAP-ON Sure. If you take each character and AND it with mut*u's birthday in
> Julian Date, you get the ascii equivalent. In your case it would read: CLAP-OFF

So?

> 
>         CLAP-ON ".sig still waiting mut*u's approval". CLAP-OFF

Really?

> 
> > > Argh. Now I've done it. He's going to put me in his kill file... Wasn't a 
> > > famous Ottoman (TM) that said that "Kill files are a sign of intellectual
> > > inadequacy?"
> > 
> > As for inadequacy, try to note the difference between e-mail kill files and
> > news kill files.  I guess there is no chance. <>
> 
> CLAP-ON You seem decent enough, Mustafa. I'll give it to you in simple
> terms.  Here's the scoop. Out of the "Big Four" in anatolia, you're
> the only one to follow up on my postings (rantings, actually, my sense
> of self-knowledge is supreme). Cos*r only posts infrequent small
> messages, with little entertaining value.  Mut*u's gone for now, and
> even when he was here (COME BACK PLEASE), his entertaining value was
> lost between the quotes. KEL*Y only posts stuff Mut*u wrote without
> the kute-quotes. So that leaves you to bear the load. CLAP-OFF

You really have nothing to say do you?

> 
> CLAP-ON Had you been smart enough you'd realize that you should not try
> to converse with me, as I'm no amateur in the field of flaming. I was
> flaming and being flamed when you were in High School in Turkiye. I
> rarely enjoy engaging rational, reasonable people in flamefests, but
> there are cases where they are asking for it. CLAP-OFF

But see, I was flaming even before elemantary school, and as I mastered the
game I no longer need to practice, and concentrate on the issues now.

> 
> > I set the followup to alt.flame, as you seem to have nothing to say on
> > the subject.  I bet you'll find all the entertainment you want there.
> 
> CLAP-ON Nope. It will continue to haunt you in soc.culture.turkish and
> cross posted to soc.culture.greek. Mutley&Co played the followup to
> and crosspost game for years and nobody minded. Do you? CLAP-OFF

Oh, I see, personal vendetta for screwing your plans.

> 
> > Mustafa Soysal
> 
> > \033\011\012\012\012\011\001\001\000\000\000          (added by tri*)
> 
> CLAP-ON It's hard to flame people when their brains have all the same
> CPU power as the CLAP-ON, CLAP-OFF, THE CLAPPER... You just don't get
> it, Mustafa, Just Don't Get It (SE DOULEVEI XONTRA TWRA, REEEEE) CLAP
> OFF CLAP-OFF CLAP-OFF (end-of-clapper session, 3 CLAP-OFFS and pause).

Still no statements on announcements.

> 
> SERIOUS SUMMARY:

Oh really?

> 
> The real difference between us, Mustafa, is that you (and Cos*r and
> Mut*u) don't like me just because of where I come from. No matter if I
> posted the source code to the comment-to-source-code-interpreter to
> the net, you would never see any value in it because it was written by
> a "Sipa" (your words), an "Infidel", as the Ottomans (TM) would say.
> In such a conflict, issues don't matter.

You are what you do.  I certainly won't like you for what you are doing,
and it will have an effect for the ethnic community you are a member of. 
You are a shame for the Greeks.  I didn't think Sandru was Greek.  But
you seem to be. 

Sipa is not my words, you tried to impose it on my name by inserting it
just before my signature in your text.  You aren't as smart as you
think.  Take a test.  (besides, I wrote SIpa, and it does not mean
infidel, you must be dreaming, drunk, etc..)

> 
> In my case, I don't like you because of what you do or say. I have
> flamed non-Turks, non-Moslems, etc in this HBM debate (in particular in
> news.admin since the people we're talking about can not/will not rise to
> defend themselves using real arguments in these groups, only rehashed
> quotes.  I'm sure you're a nice guy beneath this MYSTIK layer of yours,
> just like Mut*u and Cos*r are.  One does not get to work at A*&T or be a
> Ph.D. candidate by being a jerk. But how can I like someone who dislikes
> me for being Greek, not for what I do or write or say?

Ah, resorting to misspelling, does your editor not copy?

And if you still did not realize, it is what you do.  This is from above
on your article. 

     CLAP-ON Nope. It will continue to haunt you in soc.culture.turkish and

> 
> As for your argument that "I am afraid of all these Turkish and Moslem
> people", I am sorry to say it is idiotic. My own wife is non-Greek
> (Iranian), my mother-in-law is Moslem, three of my ex-roommates from

Sure, all this coming from a person who promises to haunt me, and I will
believe it, heh.  Even so, it would be most bizarre for you to act like
this.  Does she know what you are doing?

I had one good Greek friend at the university (there were others too,
but they weren't good friends), but he seemed to be worried by my
ethnicity by dictation of his fellows all the time.  He did not have a
problem, but his Greek friends did.  The friendship was doomed to fail
under those conditions in the long term.

> college were Moslems (one from Sarajevo, another from Lebanon, one from
> Erythria/Ethiopia). I can count among my friends just about every
> nationality (except "Macedonians" :-)).  That's because I get to like or
> dislike people for what they are, not  where they're from or which
> religion they follow. I realize that Greece, by its virtue (?) of being

So how come Turks and Macedonians don't enjoy the privilege? (This
relates to the beginning of this article.) 

> religion they follow. I realize that Greece, by its virtue (?) of being
> 99% ethnic Greek does sometimes suffer from ethnic stuck-ups, just like 
> other homogeneous countries (i.e Japan). I've worked for 10 years to
> change that perception among non Greeks and have successfuly been
> accepted in all non-Greek circles. To have someone like you write stuff
> like the quote above, i.e. pure stereotyping, is just saddening.

You are judged by your actions Spiros Triantafyllopoulos.  And they
don't speak highly of you.  You can tell me all you want, but I will
look at what you do.

> 
> Spiros
> --
> Spiros Triantafyllopoulos                   by403@cleveland.freenet.edu
> OUZO POWER                                  [Not Really in Cleveland]

Ouzo will also make you gain weight, not speaking of killing lots of
brain cells. 


--
Mustafa Soysal
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Xref: sparky soc.culture.turkish:10004 talk.politics.mideast:20097 talk.politics.soviet:7947 soc.culture.greek:8918 soc.culture.europe:8392 soc.history:8305 news.admin:7601 news.admin.policy:14