From: kossack@owlnet.rice.edu (Jordan Marc Kossack)
Subject: Re: gun(s) for carry in a car
Reply-To: kossack@qvi.com
Organization: Draft Dodgers for Quayle and Clinton 
Distribution: houston
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 22:46:01 GMT

In article <IO2KB4A@taronga.com> peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) writes:
|> >   Would you be so outraged if the police condoned the protests outside 
|> >   the dome during the RNC?  What if they condoned National Night Out?  
|> 
|> That's great, but it isn't a choice for the police to make. It's a choice
|> for the legislature or the courts. I think that's the main point.

	I'm not picking on you personally Peter, but I've heard a lot 
   of folk say that when it comes to things like carrying firearms, but 
   complain when the same principle is applied to other laws - mostly 
   laws that they, personally, break.  For example, by that principle, 
   the police should stop and ticket EVERY car going over 55mph on the 
   freeway, even though that may be > half the cars on some roads, such 
   as the West Belt (8) or the Gulf Freeway (any time other than 'rush 
   hour') & even if the car is 'only' going 1mph greater than the speed 
   limit.  After all, they're still breaking the law - let them tell it   
   to the judge.  By not stopping every vehicle that the observe exceeding 
   the speed limit, the police are condoning speeding much more blatantly 
   than they are "openly condoning the carrying of fatal weapons by the 
   masses" through failing to search cars driven by non-suspicious folk.  

	Regardless, although you may feel that was the main point of the    
   article I was replying to, I didn't read it that way.         
 

- From: schieber@jetson.uh.edu (Schieber, Jay D.)
- 
- >	I wouldn't count on this, but the comments about how you look
- >and act certainly seem true....my brother in law, an HPD officer, says
- >essentially the same thing.  But, there again, how far can you trust a
- >brother in law?  IME, unless you have done something suspicious, you
- >won't get searched (in vehicle) for a traffic violation.  The key is not
- >to have your weapons in plain view.  And not to act weird.
- 
- This is truly discomforting.  The police are openly condoning the 
- carrying of fatal weapons by the masses.  The police are going to 
- decide who is OK on the basis of looks?  Let me guess: cowboy boots,
- big belt buckles, and chewing tobacco are OK, nose-rings, long hair,
- peace symbols are weird.  Neofascist political ideas are OK, and
- social justice is weird (and threatening).
- 

	Note, Peter, that comments were made regarding the likelihood 
   of a police search based upon ones appearance.  Jay seems to think 
   that this is wrong.  Now, weighing probable cause before conducting 
   a search is something that we (have to) leave to the individual 
   officer.  Certainly, if an individual officer oversteps the bounds, 
   anything found during the search is inadmissible and disciplinary 
   action may be taken against that individual officer.  I said that 
   until we have robocops, individual officers will have to exercise 
   their own personal (and human) judgement when deciding whether or 
   not to conduct a search - does the officer think he has legal cause?  
   Further, I admitted that the "profile" used by police may be poor, 
   and expessed a willingness to discuss this, but claimed that the 
   validity of the "profile" used does not change the fact that the cop 
   on the street must still exercise personal judgement.  It's part of 
   the job.  Unless you want them to arrest/search everybody.   :-)  :-)  

   [ OBTW, I don't wear big belt buckles nor do I chew tobacco; I  ]  
   [ only wear boots when hiking or it's raining; I have a beard & ] 
   [ an earring and I don't wear ties.  The only times I've been   ] 
   [ hassled by cops was when I had short hair, no earring and I   ]  
   [ wore boots on a daily basis.  Anecdotal?  Sure.  But it is a  ]    
   [ data point that oposses what Jay finds "truly discomforting." ]  
   [ And, yes, this was in Houston.                     -- Jordan  ]  


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 Jordan M Kossack  |  kossack@qvi.com  | +1 713 240 2073  |  I am the TSRA  
  
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