From: nabeel@sce.carleton.ca (Bulbul)
Subject: Re: Arab U N I T Y
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 23:27:59 GMT

In <1992Nov20.031353.11773@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> abde@troi.cc.rochester.edu (Tamer A. Abdelgawad) writes:

" But Abu Bakr, Omar and other 'kholafaa' had immense power over the growing
" Islamic empire:  If my memory doesn't fail me, they had the power to 
" *appoint* governors to the various regions, and while there was 'shura',
" I believe the ultimate decision on matters of state was in their hands.
" They certainly had the power to wage war, they controlled the treasury
" 'beit elmal' and so on.  Maybe we would trust Abu Bakr and Omar (raa) with
" that kind of power, but I *certainly* would not trust anyone alive with
" that kind of power today.

  You are implicitly declaring decent people nonexistant! iLi .ktasho mAtO?
I believe that still there are some decent people albeit very rare. Also
those high positions can be monitored by e.g. a council which in itself
monitored by a public council elected by people. Sort of like in the States
but much better.

" As far as Muslims in Medina, I think you're being a little unrealistic.  You
" are comparing temporary emergency relief of a few hundred (maybe a few
" thousand) immigrants done under the eyes of the Messenger of God himself, to
" the wholesale economic merging of countries with very uneven wealth.

   I think my comparison holds. the differences are:
   * Muslims were decent people.
   * The Medinites had _earned_ the money.
   * The sacrifice was extremely higher than today's unity.
   * Much money is being lost by corruption and elite tourism.

   I am not asking Saudis to make such a sacrifice, you don't collect grapes
from thorns. Also, the economic impact is less than what you say, also it
will stimulate productivity rather than using Asians to do the jobs and
stay in London or wharever. It is not an economical damper, it is also a
revolution in all aspects of life.

" Again, It's a free world.  If the Saudis perceive that it is safer to 
" invest in democracies, rather than the mostly politically unstable and
" unpredictable Arab/Muslim countries, who can blame them.  I don't think
" Islam advocates stupidity in doing business/trade.

   Islam does not advocate stupidy in business, but I do not think giving
the Sudanese separatist money has anything to do with business. Why can't
this money be invested in SA itself? Wasting money is hardly considered
business or a legitimate one at that. I do not blame a pig for rolling in
merde neither do I blame dogs for panting.

" Where does the Koran specifically 'mandate' a unity of the sort you're
" advocating?  And what exactly does the Koran say about the critical

   I leave this as an excercise for the reader.

" proportion of a certain population that would have to be Muslim for that

   That ratio that can maintain a Muslim country. If only one person can make
a Muslim country in his country, that is enough. Why don't you read the
history of establishing the State in Medina?

" population to be included in the mandated unity?  You treat the Koran
" as if it had no room for conflicting interpretations.  If that were true
" we wouldn't have Shi'aa and Sunni Muslims, and ElAzhar would be superfluous.

   ElAzhar is superfluous already. "shay.ka al'azhari aYoha .SiDIqo aftinA fI
birmIlayni naf.tiYayni, atayA min .kAdimi l.haramayni, 'anaqifo ma^a boSHin 'am
ma^a .saDAmi .hosayni?" But can any interpretation of Koran be that we must be 
enemies? Be groups and factions? Please enlighten me.

" Tamer Abdelgawad

--------------------sig.temp------------------------------------------
            _
 |\________(@)= |CENSORED|   In no way, do the expressed opinions (if any)
  \_\  --/ _/                represent the author or anyone else living or
    \=====/                  dead.
       ||                                          
       ~~         Intelligence: "waLah la'akiSHoh hal^a.sfOr."


Xref: sparky soc.culture.arabic:4953 soc.culture.lebanon:5077