HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls)
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Organization: University of Mississippi, Dept. of Computer Science
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 05:27:04 GMT

In article <1993Jan12.210030.1472@msi.com> bill@west.msi.com writes:
>Jack Radigan (jprad@faatcrl.faa.gov) wrote:
>:   More Amigas are used to accomplish "real" work Jerry, more than you're
>: able to admit to yourself.  Of course, it's rather nice to take a recreational
>: diversion with a game every now and then, which is how the A500 here (which is
>: normally setup as a debugging console) is for.
>
>More Amigas are used to accomplish "real" work than what?  PCs? Macs?
>Sega Genesis?  Super Nintendo Entertainment System?  I concede on the
>last two, but not on the first two.

Where did he compare numbers of Amigas to any other platform?  Sheesh...

>+-----------------+-------------------------------+-------------------------+
>| Bill Poitras    | Molecular Simulations Inc.    | Tel (408)522-9229       |
>| (bill)          | Sunnyvale, CA USA             |                         | 
>|                 | FAX (408)732-0831             | bill@west.msi.com       |
>+-----------------+-------------------------------+-------------------------+

Skip Sauls, Amiga Advocate
skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu
From: thom@crayfish.ucsd.edu (Thom Cleland)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re:  Comdex/Quicktime released for the PC
Date: 8 Jan 93 05:13:00 GMT
Organization: Tenuous at best
NNTP-Posting-Host: crayfish.ucsd.edu

>In article <1993Jan6.132955.18409@pcnntp.apple.com> Dale_Adams@gateway.qm.apple.com (Dale Adams) writes:
>>A number of Mac dealers have some overstock of the old Classic they're 
>>trying to sell.  Apple no longer manufactures the Classic (and hasn't for 
>>a number of months).  As I stated before, all current Macintosh computers
>>have at least a 16 MHz '030.  By the way, does that A600 you're price-
>>comparing have a hard disk (how big?) and a monitor?  (And how much RAM 
>>does it have?)  I've seen 4 MB Classics with 40 MB hard disks advertised 
>>for well under $800.
>
...but noone seems to have answered your question.  The A600 sells for
as low as the high $200s.  With keyboard, of course.  That doesn't include
monitor, but you can hook it up to your TV  (via RCA or RF)  in color.
A 40 MB hard drive is a couple/few hundred dollars more.  I believe
they're 2 MB, but they might be just 1 MB; not sure; anyway, RAM's cheap.

The A600, frankly, (and in my opinion), is in two markets.  The maximally-
cheap computer for teaching kids wordprocessing market and the Nintendo/SEGA
market.  That it can do both is its special marketing niche.  Any student
(save the totally penniless)  will probably be in the market for an A1200  
at least.  That's why  (IMHO) the lineup is structured like that... there's
a cost-minimized model that nevertheless has up-to-date technology  (AGA).
Commodore is good and cheap at the low end; always has been.  Their
recurrent troubles  (which I think they are finally transcending)  have been
in the high end market.  

For the record, if anyone cares, I think the A1200 should be graced with
a 68030, say at 16 or 25 MHz.  It won't hurt anybody, shouldn't cost much
more  (true?), and the limited expansion capabilities
should prevent encroachment on the rumored A4000/030 market.  No reason
to carry along those old '020s  (unless CBM bought them at a Motorola
closeout sale...)

>>- Dale Adams
>
Thom!



-- 
Thom Cleland     \ /^^/  >Neural systems/network physiology< >Amigaphile<  
(619) 453-7516    \OO/  >Aoinagi Shito-ryu == bend, and the wind passes <
tcleland@ucsd.edu  ++  >B3 f cdv g++ k+(+) m s+ r+ p growl+ purr++ zzz- <
"Wild magic is graven in every rock, every tree, in every blade of grass" 
Xref: sparky comp.sys.amiga.advocacy:32772 comp.sys.amiga.misc:19509
From: bruce@zuhause.MN.ORG (Bruce Albrecht)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: Re:  Byte A4000/A3000T-040 ReviewREFRESH
Distribution: world
Date: 6 Jan 93 08:35:30 CST
Organization: Society to Stamp Out Bogus Organizations

In article <1993Jan4.220613.2650@vax1.mankato.msus.edu> kickstart@vax1.mankato.msus.edu writes:
>What I was always curious about was, what percentage of 3000/4000 owners are
>first time Amiga owners?  It seems like all the people I knew who purchased
>them were just Amiga owners upgrading systems.  Is the number of users
>increasing, or is it just the same number of users continually buying a new
>machine every 4 years?

I was a first time Amiga owner when I bought my A3000 in July 1990.
--
bruce@zuhause.mn.org
Youth is wasted on the young.

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: sg7017095@v9000 (tomwoof)
Subject: Re: Amiga OS weaknesses and strengths
Followup-To: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Organization: Nanyang Technological University - Singapore
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 15:27:00 GMT

I can't believe it, but this guy's got a point!

-twf-
From: iank@microsoft.com (Ian Kennedy)
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Date: 07 Jan 93 22:22:39 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article <1ifjpeINN9ll@uwm.edu> bloc1469@ee.ee.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block) writes:
>In article <1993Jan6.141519.19372@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>>Of course it was, unless you were running Windows 3.0 (not 3.1), specifically
>>set to Real Mode.  Were you?
>
>Eek.  Umm.  I don't know.  I do remember "turning off" protected mode.
>Does 3.1 lack the capability?  That would suggest I was running under
>3.0, which may explain even further why it didn't work...

Yikes! You run Windows in Real Mode? gack. The only way to run Windows is
386-Enhanced mode on a, yep you guessed it, 386 or better. You get the
virtual memory and Windows gets linear addressing. It's also much
faster than "Real Mode".

Ian.
-- 
"Apple's attitude toward its ROM code is a little like that of a rich kid
toward his inheritance. Not actually knowing how to create wealth himself,
he guards what he has with hysterical fervor." - John Perry Barlow
MAIL : IANK@MICROSOFT.COM			 Crime and Puzzlement
From: pjotr@ludd.luth.se (Peter Sj|str|m)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: RISC Amiga?
Date: 12 Jan 93 23:58:22 GMT
Organization: Lule} Tekniska H|gskolas Datorf|rening - Ludd

In <C0pMHr.15C@news.udel.edu> don@chopin.udel.edu (Donald R Lloyd) writes:

> papresco@cantor.math.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Prescod) writes:
>>
>>Yes, and once the 68060 IS released (probably over a year from now and
>>behind schedule), how long will it take for a stock Amiga to
>>incorporate it.  They are selling PCs that can use the Pentium already.

	Well, since Motorola says 1st Q -94 for mass production, that's
not late, I think. :)

>     And the Pentium will arrive right on time.  Not.  It's already been
>delayed several times.
>     They're already selling Amigas that can use the '060 (or Pentium,
>for that matter :-)

	'can use the Pentium'... :) 

		/Peter
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 18:49:04 GMT
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
X-Posted-From: hemi.msi.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

Michael van Elst (mlelstv@specklec.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de) wrote:
:
: Personal computer do not run UNIX
:

Ha!  I beg to differ.  Mine sure does...

:
: nor was VM added to BSD. VM is an intrinsic
: feature of any UNIX.

I thought UNIX did not originally have VM, and that the first UNIX version
to have it was BSD.  Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

:
: The only UNIXish OS I know that avoids VM is the Cray
: operating system (UNICOS), guess why.
:

Because Crays are shipped with gigabytes of RAM?

:
: Michael van Elst
:
--
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
| JERRY J. SHEKHEL  | Molecular Simulations Inc. | Time just fades the pages |
| Drummers do it... |     Burlington, MA USA     | in my book of memories.   |
|    ... In rhythm! |        jerry@msi.com       |         -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
From: root@rkamiga.UUCP (Rick Kelly)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re:   Does reading this group make you depressed? The story of a victim.
Distribution: world
Date: 2 Jan 93 07:07:10 EST
Organization: Rick's Amiga

In article <bruce.0dgd@zuhause.MN.ORG> bruce@zuhause.MN.ORG (Bruce Albrecht) writes:
>In article <C03GDA.HoJ@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett) writes:
>>   I stated that there is no Amiga CD-ROM or (good) productivity software 
>>available for the Amiga.  Perhaps my qualifying productivity software with the
>>word "good" confused people.  I did this because the Amiga does have some
>>productivity software available, but no really good productivity software
>>available.  Perhaps if I had stated "there is no CD-ROM or productivity 
>>software available for the Amiga", leaving out the word "good", it would 
>>have made more sense.  But then people would have countered by naming apps
>>like Final Copy which are productivity apps, but not very good productivity
>>apps.
>
>It's tough to counter a Marc Barrett argument.  Just what are "good" productivity
>apps?  Apparently anything written for any machine EXCEPT the Amiga.  Seriously,
>most of the Amiga WP software is comparable to the WP software one gets in packages
>like MS Works.  It's true that WP5.1, MS Word and Ami-Pro are a step above the Amiga
>WP, but many of those features that are lacking in the Amiga WP software aren't used
>by most DOS/Mac users.  The two areas where I'd say the Amiga is way behind Mac/DOS
>apps are spreadsheets and databases.

And the real DBMS products for MSDOS are Informix and Oracle which 
cost $1000+.

--
Rick Kelly		Rick's Amiga		Framingham, Mass.

		think!unixland!rmkhome!rkamiga!root

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: mikeh@starnine.com (Mike Haas)
Subject: Re: More Amiga OS weaknesses and strengths
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 01:56:39 GMT
Organization: StarNine Technologies, Inc.

>In article <C0CJnH.4DL@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett) writes:
>
>Besides, Apple manages
>to sell three times as many Macintoshes as Commodore sells Amigas, every
>year 

Is THAT all?  Only 3 times more?  That's pretty good...

Used to more than that... they're losing ground!  :-)

Way to go, C=!   Thanks for pointing that out, Mark!
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: emcoop@bnr.ca (hume smith)
Subject: Re: Byte's Amiga 4000 review...
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Ottawa, Canada
	<1993Jan10.164112.9102@ra.msstate.edu>
	<C0nnDn.3ML@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu>
	<1993Jan10.224326.24838@ra.msstate.edu>
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 00:02:16 GMT

In article <1993Jan10.224326.24838@ra.msstate.edu> skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls) writes:

   In article <C0nnDn.3ML@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> papresco@cantor.math.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Prescod) writes:
   >As to REXX...It's not a very nice language anyways.  The only reason
   >IBM includes it is because ALL of their operating systems do.  I would
   >prefer if they would replace it with Perl or something.  It was by no
   >means "borrowed" from the Amiga.

   I agree, I think that REXX absolutely sucks and I don't use it.  The
   RexxMaster is not running on my machine because I have no use for it.

i've seen a piece of REXX code, and it does look awful.  maybe it's time
for someone to port TCL.  anyone have any idea how hard it would be?

this message probably doesn't belong here.  sorry.  most likely
the last thing the Amiga market needs is two such things running
around.

--
Hume Smith
hume.smith@acadiau.ca
emcoop@bnr.ca
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 15:30:19 GMT
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
X-Posted-From: hemi.msi.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

Jack Radigan (jprad@faatcrl.faa.gov) wrote:
:
: >Yes, but VM can help you make the best use of your physical RAM (by swapping
: >out unused code).
:
:   But how does the system "know" which code to swap out?  Is it the entire
: code segment for a program, or just sections of it?  
:

Get an OS design book, and read up on the subject of demand paging.  Actually,
a decent VM system won't even bother swapping out code -- it'll just discard
it and read it back in from the executable file when necessary.

:   -jack-
--
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
| JERRY J. SHEKHEL  | Molecular Simulations Inc. | Time just fades the pages |
| Drummers do it... |     Burlington, MA USA     | in my book of memories.   |
|    ... In rhythm! |        jerry@msi.com       |         -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
From: matt-dah@dsv.su.se (Mattias Dahlberg)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: POWER-PC  Info wanted !!!
Date: 7 Jan 93 10:57:17 GMT
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]

Mattias Myrberg (m92mmy@tdb.uu.se) wrote:

: Can anyone tell me something about the Power PC-project ?

In an Amiga usegroup?

: Power-PC will have fast RISC-processors, actually they'll be
: so blazingly fast that they'll be used to emulate other processors.

Yes, it will have a RISC processor. The most interesting, though, is
that the processor is decided to be "free", which makes it a good
candidate for the RISC processor coming to the Amiga.

: What does this mean to the future of the Amiga, and AmigaOS ?????

As I wrote, probably nice things.

: Thanks in adance (don't email, post here :^)

You advocat! ;-)

--
=========================================================
=  Regards  =  email:              =  1280x512x262000+  = 
=  Mattias  =  matt-dah@dsv.su.se  =  I love it.        =
=========================================================
=  If we don't *buy* our programs, there soon won't be  =
=  any new software for the Amiga. Obvious, is it not?  =
=========================================================
From: g2z092@rick.cs.ubc.ca (Ron Siemens)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Date: 9 Jan 1993 13:40:07 -0800
Organization: Computer Science, University of B.C., Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: gambier.rick.cs.ubc.ca

In article <jprad.726558500@faatcrl> jprad@faatcrl.faa.gov (Jack Radigan) writes:
>g2z092@rick.cs.ubc.ca (Ron Siemens) writes:
>
>>>  If the programmer is bad to average, probably.  But, just like hand-coded
>>>assembly versus compiled code, in the hands of an expert, never...  ;-)
>
>>Yikes!  -jack- using this kind of reasoning, you'd also have to admit the Mac'
>>method of multi-tasking is superior to the Amiga's.
>
>  Another lept conclusion, another pair of broken ankles...
>
>  Comparing the output of a compiler to handcoded assembly has absolutely no
>relation to the mechanics of preemptive and cooperative multitasking.
>
>  Go ahead though, they're your ankles. ;-)
>
>  -jack-
>

Although my quoted text of what you said may be misleading, I'm not
referring to the distinction between compiled code and hand-coded assembly
as you have assumed.  Rather the distinction between OS supplied virtual
memory or programmer-supplied virtual memory.  You advocate the programmer-
supplied method.  Putting this burdon on the programmer is non-sense, when
the OS could do it efficiently and seemlessly.  This is analogous to the
OS-provided multitasking the Amiga has, and the programmer-provided multi-
tasking the Mac has.  It's just as rediculous to have the programmer
provide VM as it is for the programmer to provide the multitasking
support the way the Mac does. 

Can I spell it out any clearer?  Besides, it is a trivial and obvious
fact that hand-coded assembly can easily be more efficient then compiled
code...

Ron
From: gerald@seas.gwu.edu (Gerald G. Washington)
Subject: Re: HELP--AMIGA OR IBM PC CLONE?
Organization: George Washington University
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 18:37:49 GMT

barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett) writes:
>   Final Copy is garbage.  Outline fonts is its primary selling point, and
>Final Copy's outline font support sucks.  It must be more than a little
>embarassing for Commodore that the word processing program they are packaging
>with their 'power up' A1200s can't even support the CompuGraphic outline fonts
>that are included with the system.  Final Copy II also sucks, and FC II is
>better than Final Copy.

Come on, now.  Mr. Marc Shekhel (er, Barrett) seems to think that any word
processor which cannot type a person's papers itself sucks.  No offense, but
that viewpoint is extreme beyond belief.  I have often used Scribble to type
in documents for class (I wouldn't recommend this...).  It works fine, and it
lacks 99% of the features of Final Copy II.

I do think that ADPro could use some improvements now that the Amiga has the
graphics to fully support that type of program.  More real-time (on-screen)
image processing would be good.

-- Gerald
From: root@rkamiga.UUCP (Rick Kelly)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re:   CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Distribution: world
Date: 7 Jan 93 15:58:20 EST
Organization: Rick's Amiga

In article <1993Jan6.223030.22990@usl.edu> das9674@ucs.usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A) writes:
>In article <root.03ev@rkamiga.UUCP> root@rkamiga.UUCP (Rick Kelly) writes:
>>In article <1993Jan4.154432.23110@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>>>
>>>Hard disk is cheaper than RAM, unless you can tell me where
>>>I can buy 340MB RAM for $600.
>>
>>Frequent swapping is a sign that it is time to buy more memory.
>
>Look, this is getting silly.  If I were running RAM-only, and started 
>using a few programs that caused problems with RAM restriction, I'd
>much rather allocated a few megs of my harddrive space to take care of it,
>than to spend over $100 which I don't have on RAM, see?

My patience gets tested easily. :-)

--

Rick Kelly		Rick's Amiga		Framingham, Mass.

		   merk!rmkhome!rkamiga!root
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Amiga and Macintosh Printing
From: martin@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (Psigon Matrix....do you DOUBT us??)
Date: 8 Jan 93 10:50:35 -0600
Reply-To: martin@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU
Organization: St. Cloud State University, St. Cloud, MN

In article <C0IysA.KHH@news.iastate.edu>, barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett) writes:
>In article <C0Ipwn.2tv@starnine.com> mikeh@starnine.com (Mike Haas) writes:
>>Because the Amiga's printing system is flexible, and the can optimize
>>things as they see fit.
>
>>The Amiga is designed for printing to a wider range of printers than
>>the Mac.  ImageWriters & LaserWriters.  Wow.
>
>   I have a package here that includes Macintosh printer drivers for over 
>1000 printers.  WOW!!
>

Yea, Marc wow.  You blew $99 on a GDT Softworks program that should be FREE.
Oh wait, I forget, you had to buy a serial-parallel converter too...anyhow,
tack another $100 on your mac system to make it print to "non-apple" printers.


Wow, indeed.


>| Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu


Jim
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Screeeemmmmmin fast 4000/040..YEEEEEEHA!!          X-ASOCC (CBM Blew that one)
          Jim Martin   MATRIX -- If it's made, we sell it. Almost.
  -----(612) 656-9693--                         MARTIN@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU
      We're almost done with the Cray module for the EmPlanT.  :) heh
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 14:57:00 GMT
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
X-Posted-From: hemi.msi.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

Mike Haas (mikeh@starnine.com) wrote:
: >
: >Hardly.  Do you have any idea how VM works, or what it does?  If you're
: >talking about multitasking several CPU-intensive apps, a decent VM system
: >can only help.  Yes, that's right.  The application's working set always
: >remains in RAM, while the dormant part is swapped out, resulting in more free
: >RAM for applications, WITHOUT any significant performance degradation.  This
:                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^
: Oh, so VM only introduces INsignificant performance degredation, eh?
:

VM introduces the penalty associated with passing all addresses references
through the MMU, which is insignificant on a decent system.

:
: The benefit of VM is allowing more apps to run.  Period.  It can only
: have a negative effect on performance, the effect may be large or
: not-so-large, but it is inescapble.
:

Untrue.  Let's look at two systems.  System A has 8MB RAM.  System B has
8MB RAM + VM.  You need to run two CPU-intensive applications.  Each
application's image size is 5MB.  Each application's CPU-intensive working
set size is 2MB.  System A *cannot* multitask the two applications -- you
must run them sequentially.  System B *may* swap a bit initially, but it
will eventually reach a state where both applications are running smoothly,
*without* swapping.  This is an example of VM increasing performance and
productivity.

:
: What you just said is pure rubbish, Jerry.  Ever run Unix in 4 Meg?
: You'll get bored waiting for 'ls'.
:

There it is again.  Both you and Greg keep whining about minimum
RAM configurations.  What does this have to do with whether or not VM
is useful?  I never said that VM is better than RAM; I said that VM is
better than no VM.  Get the difference?
--
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
| JERRY J. SHEKHEL  | Molecular Simulations Inc. | Time just fades the pages |
| Drummers do it... |     Burlington, MA USA     | in my book of memories.   |
|    ... In rhythm! |        jerry@msi.com       |         -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
From: cs_e445@ceres (Vlod Kalicun)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: A4000 Pricing
Date: 8 Jan 1993 17:22:04 GMT
Organization: Kingston University
NNTP-Posting-Host: ceres.kingston.ac.uk
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

ggg@kepler.unh.edu (Gregory G Greene) writes:
:    today that its now 2690 with the powerup deal.  One question I have is,
:    why is it called a powerup deal when you don't have to previously own 
:    an Amiga to powerup from?  Why not just lower the retail price instead.
:    I hope CBM extends it past March.  I was thinking of getting an A1200
:    with large HD, but right now I am only about $900 dollars away from being
:    able to afford the A4000.  
: 
: 							Greg Greene
:                                                         ggg@kepler.unh.edu

Why does the Power Up only apply to the states.
The Europe market is quite a big chunk for C= and yet we don't get
any of these offers.

Is it C= UK just being greedy or just lazy??

Regards..

Vlod
-Amiga Advocate.
----------------------------------------------
Amiga - Anything else isn't worth considering
----------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy