HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: anwar+@cs.cmu.edu (Anwar Mohammed)
Subject: Re: CLINTON SPEECH TEXT: RABIN MEETING
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 15:04:38 GMT

In article <3648@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh) writes:
>In article <Btp39J.Cy0.2@cs.cmu.edu> anwar+@cs.cmu.edu (Anwar Mohammed) writes:
>>
>>I would like to see Kuwait run by a Kuwaiti, just like I'd like to 
>>see Lebanon run by Lebanese, Syria run by Syrians, Jordan run by 
>>Jordanians, Egypt run by Egyptians, etc.  My personal opinion is that
>>state and religious institutions should reman seperate to a degree.
>>You've got a problem with that?
>
>Unfortunately it is not that easy in such a traditionalist society.
>
>The facts are, that the non-Muslim governments and people want to
>mold it into their own standards and are too busy in intervening in
>their policies and that is where the main conflict lies.  They are
>too fearful of a strong Islamic government and nation, despite what
>the majority *want*, and will continue to suppress it by installing
>ruthless puppet regimes (Syria, Iraq, Algeria) and pseudo emirates

Point of history: wasn't the government of Algeria made up of
the same "freedom fighters" who won a bloody war of independence 
from the west (specifically France).  In light of this, it seems
that your implicit accusation against the west (who "are too fearful 
of a strong Islamic government and nation") ignores the fact that
most of the Arab people's problems are self-inflicted and have very
little to do with the West.

>and sheikdoms (Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Qatar, Bahrain).  The people,
>of course, are always the recipients of injustice, poverty, and
>dehumanization.  And that is why people like Kaddafi, et al are
>allowed to exist.
>
>Such is the case with your own government after the war, Anwar.

Nonsense.  My government was allowed to exist because it has more
political and historical legitimacy than most can claim, including 
the minority governments in Iraq and Syrian and that transplanted
monarch in Jordan.

I've got news for you Anisa, a country's citizens determine the 
legitimacy of a government.  Thus, Kuwaitis are the sole determinors
of whether their government is legitimate.   Therefore, you have
absolutely no say in this.

>
>Anisa
>


-- 
Anwar Mohammed                           Graduate Student
anwar+@cs.cmu.edu  (NeXTmail welcome)    School of Computer Science
Voice: +1 412 268 3043                   Carnegie-Mellon University
Fax:   +1 412 681 5739                   Pittsburgh, PA  15213-3890
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Nabil Idriss)
Subject: Re: Where is everyone?
Organization: NCR E&M Columbia SC.
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 18:36:44 GMT

In article <1992Aug27.170113.29912@colorado.edu> perlman@qso.Colorado.EDU (Eric S. Perlman) writes:
>During the last week or two, I have witnessed the number of real content
>articles - regardless of viewpoint - go down, while the share of articles
>by Mr. Mutlu has increased dramatically.  Last week, for example,
>there was one particularly bad instance where 32 messages remained
>unread before I tried reading them, and my kill file then proceeded to
>destroy *31* of those 32 messages.  There are only two names in my kill
>file for tpm:  Hasan Mutlu's and Ralph Winston's.  None of those
>messages were Winston's.  
>
>The result?  Talk.politics.mideast has effectively become
>talk.politics.mutlu.  Many of you have been on this net long enough to
>recall the effort undertaken by Nevo Hed and Sandra Reyes earlier this
>summer:  Operation Reclaim TPM.  For about two months it was successful,
>but currently Mutt-lu is back, and more rabid than ever.
>
>At this point I have become thoroughly disgusted with the situation, and
>call for a renewal of Operation Reclaim TPM.  Talk.politics.mideast is
>for the discussion of current and past middle eastern politics, and not
>for the discussion of quotes posted over and over again, in response to
>authors too numerous to name, and so often posted completely out of
>context - as Mr. Milson has so diligently shown.  In fact, the posting
>of material more than a few times repeatedly is a violation of
>netiquette, as has been pointed out to Mr. Mutlu before.   It also is
>not for the trashing of anyone who treads on one particular person's pet
>peeves.  Hear me well, Mutlu:  Everyone is entitled to their own
>opinion, and *NOT NECESSARILY YOUR* opinion.  
>
>Let's reclaim tpm as a medium for pluralistic debate, not autocratic
>dictation!
>
>
>-- 
>"How sad to see/A model of decorum and tranquillity/become like any other sport
>A battleground for rival ideologies to slug it out with glee." -Tim Rice,"Chess"
>     Eric S. Perlman 				 <perlman@qso.colorado.edu> 
>  Center for Astrophysics and Space Astronomy, University of Colorado, Boulder


I have a suggestion for you Hasan Mutlu. Why don't you combine all your
responses into one long article? This way you reduce traffic on tpm.
-- 
Nabil Idriss                           |       FOR EVERY ACTION AN OPPOSITE  
NCR - Midrange Products Division       |       AND EQUAL REACTION.
      Columbia, South Carolina         |      
email: nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM |
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,misc.headlines
From: jbf@wts.com (Jens B. Fiederer)
Subject: Re: Fair Swap
Organization: Wegmans Transaction Services
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 17:37:48 GMT

In article <1992Aug31.205301.4416@cs.brown.edu> dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) writes:
.....
>kept them in the worst conditions possible, in the meanwhile buying
>half of the united states and causing segmentation faults in
>the computers of the Swiss banks.
>
>-Danny Keren.
>
Segmentation faults are unlikely to be caused by the use of large numbers
unless these numbers are used as indices to an array.  In most financial
software, Arab balances are more likely to generate overflow errors or
silent wrap-around.

Jens
From: backon@vms.huji.ac.il
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Mutlu's address needed
Date: 31 Aug 92 08:54:29 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Hebrew University of Jerusalem

In article <4ebjX4a00WB8NERe5J@andrew.cmu.edu>, Radu Eugen Edelstein <re0x+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
> Another way to deal with Mutlu's postings would be to flood his
> original site by each of us' answering each of his postings.
> Unfortunately all my attempts to send him mail resulted with my
> message's being bounced.  I believe an attempt to identify how
> we can send him messages or lobbying with our own system administrators
> to force Mutlu's site to recieve messages or (in case of non-compliance)
> to revoke that site's internet access, is worth spending the time.
> Bringing our case to the system administrators (the only ones that
> have the power over internet access) will also have support from most
> users on the other bboards bothed by Mutlu.
> I have recently researched the topic of policing bboards and it is my
> interpretation that such an action is consistent with the freedom of
> speach principle: a site that has the permission to access internet
> for posting *should* permit messages from internet users to access that
> site.  Because not all schools are in session yet, I will repost a
> message with a similar content around September 5 and at that time I
> will send it to all bboards which face the same issue, too.
> I plan on asking everyone who is bothered by Mutlu's overdoing his
> posting to contact their system administrators with a request to do
> something about Mutlu's side, and to do so in the interval between
> September 10 and September 20.  A coordinated action will prove more
> usefull than our previous isolated attempts.
> I would make the following solution suggestions to the system administrators:
> 1.  Make Mutlu's side allow our direct answer to Mutlu or
> 2.  Restrict Mutlu's access to our bboard or
> 3.  Allow Mutlu only a limited number of postings or
> 4.  Remove Mutlu's access through that site or, as a last resort,
> 5.  Deny Mutlu's site the access to internet (this should be used
>     from the begining, as a leverage in convincing that site to
>     accept a solution from among 1-4).
>
> I will be waiting for any suggestions from you up to September 3rd.
> Meanwhile, does anybody know where Mutlu is posting to, if it is
> possible to send him our answers, or the status of his site ?
>
> Rad


I suggest simply to find the fax number of the Information Attache at the
Turkish Embassy in Washington and bring to his attention the damage caused by
Mutlu to Turkish claims on *whatever* happened 80 years ago. Then you'll soon
find out whether Mutlu is, in fact, working under the aegis of the Turkish
government (or whether he's an AI program gone beserk).

This sort of reminds me of the movie NETWORK where thousands of people shout in
unison (I forget the exact quote):  "WE'VE HAD ENOUGH AND WE CAN'T TAKE IT ANY
LONGER" !!

I'm on a VAX and ANUNEWS unfortunately doesn't have "kill" files.

Josh
backon@VMS.HUJI.AC.IL
From: davidba@carmel.technion.ac.il (David Ben_Ami)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: politics
Date: 1 Sep 92 14:17:48 GMT
Organization: Technion, Israel Inst. of Technology

In article <1992Aug31.191405.2446208@locus.com> jle@locus.com (John Elghani/10000000) writes:
>In article <1992Aug31.163951.25193@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> sethr@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (seth.r.rosenthal) writes:
>>In article <1992Aug26.022619.2423654@locus.com>, jle@locus.com (John Elghani/10000000) writes:
>>> In article <3625@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh) writes:
>>> >In article <1992Aug21.073928.17880@cs.anu.edu.au> bdm@cs.anu.edu.au writes:
>>> >>
>>> >>In article 22555@rs.com, horen@rs.com (Jonathan B. Horen) writes:
>>> >>>The Philistines were *never* in Israel -- and their name *never* evolved into
>>> 				  ^^^^^^^^^
>>> What Israel?  The now adays place known, by force, as israel is the stolen
>>> land of the Philistines.  Israel of the thieves , if you wish , exists
>>> around Germany that if the Germans, Polish, ...etc wish it to be.  This
>>> land is that of the Philistines.  Read actual history books and ask the
>>> people of the land, do not read the books of a bunch of thief-authors, and
>>> ask the invadors.
>>>
>>
>>The land of the Philistines was around Gaza.  They controlled 5
>>coastal cities there, after failing in their attempt to invade
>>Egypt.  Philistines were Anatolian Greeks, and have no ethnic
>>ties with current inhabitants of the region.  In Archeological
>>Review an article on the results of excavations of the Philistine
>
>So, the name Philistine in Arabic, Hebrew, Persian, ...etc that points
>to the people of Palestine , is just a cooincidence , right?
>
>Don't be fooled with by the letters P and Ph when English translation
>takes place .
>

The Arabs living between teh Jordan and the sea call themselves
Palestinians not because they have any memories of the PHilistines
but because that's the name the Roman called the country in order 
to quench Jewish rebelion 2000 years ago.

The Arabs have no connection to the philistines more than the Chinese
or the Finnish has. They just happened to use the Roman name of the 
country.

I think the Arabs call themselves "Falastiniun" cause P is not 
known to Arab speakers. The original Biblical name of the Philistines
is "Plishtim".


David.
-- 
=============================================================================
  David Ben-Ami (irc: bigdav)      |   "I can resist anything but Temptation"
  s2780369@Techst02.Technion.Ac.Il |       Oscar Wilde
  davidba@Carmel.Technion.Ac.Il  davidba@Moav.Techniona.Ac.Il
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: idfriedm@hertz.uwaterloo.ca (id friedman)
Subject: Re: BILL CLINTON ON ISRAEL AND THE MIDDLE
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 03:18:50 GMT

In article <1992Aug26.133025.8516@dscomsf.desy.de> Hallam@zeus02.desy.de writes:
>In article <BtJspK.A58@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>, idfriedm@hertz.uwaterloo.ca (id
>friedman) writes:
>|>In article <25149@castle.ed.ac.uk> egpv29@castle.ed.ac.uk (JHenderson)
>|>writes:
>|>>In article <1992Aug24.095753.307@rs.com> horen@rs.com writes:
>|>>=>
>|>>=>The US trade boycotts against Cuba and Vietnam are *strictly* between
>|>>=>the US and Cuba/Vietnam. The US has *never* said that it would not
>|>>=>trade with *other* countries which do trade with Cuba/Vietnam.
>|>>
>|>>There you go again. The US has said that ships doing business with Cuba
>|>>are barred from the US.
>|>>
>|> Has the US said that if my Japanese company does business with Cuba, it
>|> won't do any business with the U.S?
>|>
>|> I don't think so.
>
>You think wrong.
>
 Which cars are sold in Cuba? Are these companies prohibited from selling in
 the U.S ( I think that ** only recently ** were Japanese cars which sold
 to Israel allowed to sell to Arab conutries.).

 Does the U.S gov't keep a list of foreign countries which do *** any type ***
 of business with Cuba and, as a matter of principle, prohibit them from
 doing business with the U.S? 

 The U.S may do so with ships.
 The Arab countries, as a matter of principle, do so with all companies
 ( OF course, in reality, the boycott is sometimes broken).

Ishay     



>--
>
>Phill Hallam-Baker


Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: bx573@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Alan H. Stein)
Subject: Re: CLINTON SPEECH TEXT: RABIN MEETING
Reply-To: bx573@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Alan H. Stein)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 12:18:21 GMT


In a previous article, anwar+@cs.cmu.edu (Anwar Mohammed) says:

>In article <3628@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh) writes:
>>In article <1992Aug25.120204.17755@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal) writes:
>>>Truly free democratic elections in Arab couould probably also help.
>>
>>Yes, but do you have any solutions on getting rid of the dictators
>>first?
>
>Perhaps by following the example of Kuwait by holding constitutionally 
>mandated elections and allowing the Press to freely discuss issues related 
>to the elections.  

Did I miss something somewhere.  Could anyone tell me more about the
election results?  Was the Kuwaiti royal family re-elected?  By what 
margin?
-- 
bx573@cleveland.freenet.edu----Alan H. Stein----stein@uconnvm.uconn.edu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,misc.headlines,talk.politics.misc,alt.conspiracy,alt.censorship,soc.rights.human,alt.discrimination
From: hallam@zeus02.desy.de (Phillip M. Hallam-Baker)
Subject: Re: Islamic Fundamentalism in Egypt Targets Christians as it Did Jews
Reply-To: hallam@zeus02.desy.de
Organization: DESY ZEUS Central Data Acquisition
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 01:53:55 GMT


I have as little time for Jake's hate posts against arabs as I have for
those of Mutlu or ARF.

His tactics and racism is indistinguishable from those of the people he
is condemning, there are bigoted arabs therfore all arabs are bigots,
just as well we know better than to apply the same principle to
"Zionists" living in the USA.


Phill Hallam-Baker
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 00:10:44 -0400 
From: Radu Eugen Edelstein <re0x+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Mutlu's address needed                

Another way to deal with Mutlu's postings would be to flood his
original site by each of us' answering each of his postings.
Unfortunately all my attempts to send him mail resulted with my
message's being bounced.  I believe an attempt to identify how
we can send him messages or lobbying with our own system administrators
to force Mutlu's site to recieve messages or (in case of non-compliance)
to revoke that site's internet access, is worth spending the time.
Bringing our case to the system administrators (the only ones that
have the power over internet access) will also have support from most
users on the other bboards bothed by Mutlu.
I have recently researched the topic of policing bboards and it is my
interpretation that such an action is consistent with the freedom of
speach principle: a site that has the permission to access internet
for posting *should* permit messages from internet users to access that
site.  Because not all schools are in session yet, I will repost a
message with a similar content around September 5 and at that time I
will send it to all bboards which face the same issue, too.
I plan on asking everyone who is bothered by Mutlu's overdoing his
posting to contact their system administrators with a request to do
something about Mutlu's side, and to do so in the interval between
September 10 and September 20.  A coordinated action will prove more
usefull than our previous isolated attempts.
I would make the following solution suggestions to the system administrators:
1.  Make Mutlu's side allow our direct answer to Mutlu or
2.  Restrict Mutlu's access to our bboard or
3.  Allow Mutlu only a limited number of postings or
4.  Remove Mutlu's access through that site or, as a last resort,
5.  Deny Mutlu's site the access to internet (this should be used
    from the begining, as a leverage in convincing that site to
    accept a solution from among 1-4).

I will be waiting for any suggestions from you up to September 3rd.
Meanwhile, does anybody know where Mutlu is posting to, if it is
possible to send him our answers, or the status of his site ?

Rad
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: hallam@zeus02.desy.de (Phill Hallam-Baker)
Subject: Re: Eggert vs. Livni
Reply-To: Hallam@zeus02.desy.de
Organization: Deutsches Elektronen Synchrotron, Experiment ZEUS bei HERA
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 13:22:10 GMT

In article <1992Aug26.123117.16987@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>,
bx573@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Alan H. Stein) writes:

|>In a previous article, hallam@zeus02.desy.de (Phill Hallam-Baker) says:
|>
|>>
|>>Jakes ludicrous constructions on 242 are in fact belied by the preamble
|>>"Emphasizing the inadmissibility of acquisition of territory by war". If 242
|>>could be interpreted as Jake attempts, ie that Israel is only obliged to
|>return
|>>part of the territories in return for recognition the preamble would read
|>>differently.
|>
|>Phill conveniently ignores the historical reality that Egypt and Jordan
|>originally took the territories by force.  Thus, the return of the
|>territories itself would be accepting the acquisition of territory by force.

This is entirely irrelevant. Nobody is contemplating the return of the
teritories to Jordan or Egypt, these countries do not persist in making any
claims to them. The only state making claims in the region is Syria which is
demanding the Golan heigts back.

The point about the preamble is that in international law there are plenty of
provisions that rule out the aquisition of territory by force. That is pretty
much the whole of what international law is about. There is however not a
requirement to recognise other governments. To this extent it is quite correct
(if nieve) to demand unconditional withdrawal from the territories.

Just one question, when did Jake serve in the Israeli army and what rank did he
reach?

--

Phill Hallam-Baker
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: anwar+@cs.cmu.edu (Anwar Mohammed)
Subject: Re: CLINTON SPEECH TEXT: RABIN MEETING
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 13:22:53 GMT

In article <1992Aug26.121821.16407@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> bx573@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Alan H. Stein) writes:
>
>In a previous article, anwar+@cs.cmu.edu (Anwar Mohammed) says:
>
>>In article <3628@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh) writes:
>>>In article <1992Aug25.120204.17755@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal) writes:
>>>>Truly free democratic elections in Arab couould probably also help.
>>>
>>>Yes, but do you have any solutions on getting rid of the dictators
>>>first?
>>
>>Perhaps by following the example of Kuwait by holding constitutionally 
>>mandated elections and allowing the Press to freely discuss issues related 
>>to the elections.  
>
>Did I miss something somewhere.  Could anyone tell me more about the
>election results?  Was the Kuwaiti royal family re-elected?  By what 
>margin?

You've missed quite a bit:

1. Kuwait is a constitutional monarchy, and has been one for about thirty years.  
Like Britain and the inumerable other similiar monarchies, the monarch is not up 
for election.  There was an active free press and national assembly in all but
the period between '86 and the invasion.  Once post-liberation martial law 
was lifted, many restrictions on the press were lifted.

2. Elections are scheduled for October.  Not having any psychic abilities 
myself, I don't think I could provide you with any information on the outcome.

>-- 
>bx573@cleveland.freenet.edu----Alan H. Stein----stein@uconnvm.uconn.edu


-- 
Anwar Mohammed                           Graduate Student
anwar+@cs.cmu.edu  (NeXTmail welcome)    School of Computer Science
Voice: +1 412 268 3043                   Carnegie-Mellon University
Fax:   +1 412 681 5739                   Pittsburgh, PA  15213-3890
From: anwar+@cs.cmu.edu (Anwar Mohammed)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Arabs/leftists? (was Re: Computer Science in Israel Ignored)
Date: 30 Aug 92 17:22:56 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

In article <1992Aug30.165318.4726@ennews.eas.asu.edu> makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky) writes:
>In article <Btsu27.5Dv.2@cs.cmu.edu> anwar+@cs.cmu.edu (Anwar Mohammed) writes:
>
># In article <1992Aug30.013713.19594@ennews.eas.asu.edu> makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky) writes:
>
># >	Second of all, the University of Arizona denied me admission to
># >its graduate CS program because as an undergrad I was a "trouble
># >maker" and activist who among other things demonstrated against
># >University administration policies when they favored
># >Arabs/Iranians/the usual American leftist crowed against Jewish
># >students.  
> 
># If you'd like to do a comparative study of the political affiliations of
># Arab-Americans and Jews this country, I'm sure that from a _conservative_
># perspective, Arab-Americans compare favorably.  The fact that leftists usually
># support anything that goes against U.S. government policy only means that they 
># and most Arab-Americans generally agree on one issue, the Middle East.  One 
># could probably say the same thing about most ethnic groups.
> 
># I would not use this net as an indicator.
>
>	I do not understand your point.  I was not talking about anything
>other then Middle East issues, and while I did not explicitly mention
>this, I honestly do not think there was a need to.

I just felt that bunching Arabs/Iranians with the "usual leftist crowd" might
mislead a few people.  I didn't think it was that big a deal, just wanted to
clarify things.  You'd be suprised how many people have misconceptions about
Arabs...like for example, that we have "harams".

>
>	Not that it matters, but I probably agree with you about
>Arab-Americans being typically conservative, at least as far as their
>organiztions go.  I do not know about the majority of individual Arabs,
>however I have seen some Arab Americans (James Zogby in particular)
>speaking on behalf of their organizations in what most people would
>call a "conservative" tone.
>--
>
>David Makowsky
>makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu


-- 
Anwar Mohammed                           Graduate Student
anwar+@cs.cmu.edu  (NeXTmail welcome)    School of Computer Science
Voice: +1 412 268 3043                   Carnegie-Mellon University
Fax:   +1 412 681 5739                   Pittsburgh, PA  15213-3890