HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mblakele@jarthur.claremont.edu (Michael Blakeley)
Subject: Beta Code (was Re: How many volumes would all Greek writings fill?)
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 00:53:58 GMT


	I'd like more info on this Beta Code, please! I've got a Greek font
(with breathing marks, etc.) for the mac _almost_ ready (it'll be public-
domain), and I'd like it to be as "standard" as possible.
	This is the first mention of Beta-code I've heard. I know about the
Cadmus font for the Mac, but I consider it an ugly kludge, extremely un-Maclike
and incompatible with System 7.
	Please post, or e-mail and I'll summarize.

-- mike
From: ggonth@uuisis.isis.org (Gilles Gonthier)
Newsgroups: sci.classics
Subject: Re: a. C. n. L
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 03:00:28 GMT
Organization: UUISIS Electronic Mail Service (Ottawa)

In <adjg.721875587@sour.sw.oz.au> adjg@sour.sw.oz.au (Andrew Gollan) wrote:
> Subject: a. C. n. L.
> (...)
> This is given as the equivalent of 50 BC in some post classical material
> (including Asterix). Anyone know the decoding?
 
The letters a. C. n. L stand for:
 
                ante Christum natum (anno) quinquagesimo
          lit.: before Christ born         the fiftieth (year)
              (the fiftieth year before the birth of Christ).
 
L = 50,  cardinal number: quinquaginta, ordinal number: quinquagesimus,a,um
 
***********************************************************************
*            Gilles Gonthier - "Pro-Family and proud of it"  :-)      *
*                      Ottawa, Ontario, Canada.                       *
*                   E-mail: ggonth@uuisis.isis.org                    *
***********************************************************************
 
-- 

----------------------------------------------------------------------
UUCP: uunet.ca!uuisis.isis.org!rjbeeth             Voice: 613-825-5324
DNS:  rjbeeth@uuisis.isis.org, rjbeeth@uuisis.UUCP
Xref: sparky sci.classics:1009 alt.mythology:2051
From: lnh@soliton.physics.arizona.edu (sometimes a Wombat)
Newsgroups: sci.classics,alt.mythology
Subject: Re: Robert Graves-- transcendent genius or raving loon?
Date: 14 Nov 92 18:31:28 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Society for the Appreciation of Janni Lee Simner

This morning I came across a discription of Samuel Butler as an amature
scholar of "considerable erudition and maddening eccentricity."  In the
next paragraph, Graves was cited as having received the decending
mantle of that title.

	Larry "Heh" Hammer
--

LNH@physics.arizona.edu   \  For love all love of other sights controls,
GEnie: L.HAMMER2           \ And makes one little room an everywhere -- Donne
Newsgroups: sci.classics
From: ogil@quads.uchicago.edu (Brian W. Ogilvie)
Subject: Re: How many volumes would all Greek writings fill?
Reply-To: ogil@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: Morris Fishbein Center for the History of Science and Medicine
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 04:02:10 GMT

An important fact to remember in this thread is that we are discussing
only EXTANT works. As a Renaissance scholar, I am constantly reminded
that interpretations of the ancient world depend to a large degree on
the fortuities of transmission. Probably a good portion of classical
Greek literature was lost in the transition from book-roll to codex
which took place in the second through fourth centuries AD, though I
have no idea what percentage disappeared.
-- 
Brian W. Ogilvie           DISCLAIMER: You think I have time to
b-ogilvie@uchicago.edu       think about everything I post?
Newsgroups: sci.classics
From: alderson@elaine46.Stanford.EDU (Rich Alderson)
Subject: Re: How many volumes would all Greek writings fill?
Originator: alderson@leland.Stanford.EDU
Reply-To: alderson@elaine46.Stanford.EDU (Rich Alderson)
Organization: Stanford University Academic Information Resources
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 01:50:48 GMT

In article <41281@sdcc12.ucsd.edu>, ph600fcy@sdcc14 (Matthew Harrington) writes:
>If someone compiled all of the literature, philosophy, history, etc., written
>in classical Greek, how many volumes would this be?  Let us say that a volume
>is the size of an Encyclopedia Brittanica volume, with which most people will
>be familiar.

Well, the Thesaurus Linguae Graecae, with all the texts from Homer to 600 AD,
covers 1 CD-ROM.  I think the EB is about the same size, isn't it?
-- 
Rich Alderson   'I wish life was not so short,' he thought.  'Languages take
                such a time, and so do all the things one wants to know about.'
                                                        --J. R. R. Tolkien,
alderson@leland.stanford.edu                              _The Lost Road_
Newsgroups: sci.classics
From: "david meadows" <david.meadows@canrem.com>
Subject: know an adjective for bla
Reply-To: "david meadows" <david.meadows@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: sci
Date: 20 Nov 92 15:15:31 EST

JM>etc. was suggested as 'peribothron' on the grounds that 'Bothros'
  >was the name of a sort of Ancient Greek 'Black Hole of Calcutta'
  >and came to mean 'a deep dark pit that you never get out of'.
  >[I'm trying to cross-post this to sci.classics in case someone there
  >can tell me whether this is true.]

Technically speaking, `bothros' is not a `sort of Ancient Greek `Black
hole of Calcutta' ... the Black Hole of Calcutta was an infamous
prison in British India colonial times. A bothros is a simple Greek
word for a pit or trench dug in the ground. It is often used in the
sense of a pit which was dug for the purpose of dumping sacrificial
victims, blood, guts, and the like as an offering to the gods below
the earth.

Even so, bothrotic is a nice adjective.

David Meadows
---
  1st 1.01 #813  Wish that I was on old Rocky Top, down in the TN hills...
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: sci.classics
From: alderson@elaine46.Stanford.EDU (Rich Alderson)
Subject: Re: Powell on Greek Alphabet
Originator: alderson@leland.Stanford.EDU
Reply-To: alderson@elaine46.Stanford.EDU (Rich Alderson)
Organization: Stanford University Academic Information Resources
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 17:08:35 GMT

In article <1992Nov20.034020.26274@Csli.Stanford.EDU>, andrews@Csli (Avery Andrews) writes:
>In article  <1992Nov16.183821.26079@leland.Stanford.EDU>,
>  Rich Alderson (alderson@leland.Stanford.EDU) writes:
> 
>>What may have been optional in the traditional songs was a phonetic
>>realization of the phoneme /w/.
> 
>oops.
> 
>>I don't remember, and don't have any references at hand, whether there was a
>>"w" series of signs in Linear B.  Anyone?
> 
>There was, also in the Cypriot script (just peered in Chadwick, etc.)

Good!  Given the Cypriot evidence, I will forge ahead with a speculation I
didn't want to make public before.

It is claimed, I think rightly, that the Homeric songs were originally composed
in an Arcado-Cypriot dialect, rather than Attic-Ionic; both dialect groups are
derived from South Greek, in opposition to the North Greek Dorians et al.
Given this, and given the existence of a "w" series in Cypriot, I would claim
that the optionality of pronouncing /w/ in the songs arose among the *Attic-
Ionic* aoidoi, whose dialects were losing or had lost the phoneme, and who
therefore had to learn a foreign sound from their Arcado-Cypriot colleagues.

Thus, there is good reason for the developer of the alphabet to have included
*wau* in his/her invention, if Powell is correct in his speculations about the
reason for its creation.
-- 
Rich Alderson   'I wish life was not so short,' he thought.  'Languages take
                such a time, and so do all the things one wants to know about.'
                                                        --J. R. R. Tolkien,
alderson@leland.stanford.edu                              _The Lost Road_
Newsgroups: sci.classics
From: adjg@sour.sw.oz.au (Andrew Gollan)
Subject: a. C. n. L.
Organization: Softway Pty Ltd
Date: 16 Nov 92 00:59:47 GMT

This is given as the equivalent of 50 BC in some post classical material
(including Asterix). Anyone know the decoding?
-- 
Q.C. (Queen's Counsellor): A	|Andrew Gollan - "Anti-Family and proud of it"
learned associate of a gay man.	|Phone: +61 2 698 2322  Fax: +61 2 699 9174
Handbag: A male fashion	     __	|Softway, GPO Box 305,
accessory of a gay woman.    \/	|Strawberry Hills NSW 2012, Australia
From: luis@cs.arizona.edu (Luis Fernandez)
Newsgroups: sci.classics
Subject: Wanted: Info concerning Dardanos
Keywords: Dardanos, Laomedon
Date: 15 Nov 92 20:34:26 GMT


Greetings.

  I'm searching for books concerning Dardanos and his kin. Primarily,
I'm hoping to find information about Laomedon, his sons, and their sons.
What I would like is pre-Homeric sources, or later books that make references 
to them. I've been having a good time looking through ancient mythology trying 
to find references made to this family, but there's just so much and time 
is so scarce I feel that external help may be benificial. Basically what I
wish to do is make a sort of catalogue. I need information regarding who
begat whom and what everyone did. I'm also very interested in the war between
Hercules (with the Greeks) and Laomedon; specifically, what roles the lead
characters appearing in the Illiad played (and the time differential between 
this war and the war with Troy; how many years passed between them? How old
was Hector and what role did he play? &c.)

Thanks in advance for any help that you may give.
  Luis Fernandez
--
Luis Fernandez                       .sig out for lunch....
luis@caslon.cs.arizona.edu           Be back in an hour 
Newsgroups: sci.classics
From: alderson@elaine46.Stanford.EDU (Rich Alderson)
Subject: Re: How many volumes would all Greek writings fill?
Originator: alderson@leland.Stanford.EDU
Reply-To: alderson@elaine46.Stanford.EDU (Rich Alderson)
Organization: Stanford University Academic Information Resources
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 17:10:39 GMT

In article <By6CAv.8HB@Novell.COM>, karl_best@novell (Karl Best) writes:
>re: the Thesarus Lingua Greacea CDROM: Any idea where to obtain this disk,  
>pricing, what format (Greek? English?) the content is in?

The TLG is a project at the University of California at Irvine, with its own
offices and everything.  You can probably get the information you need simply
by addressing your request to

	Thesaurus Linguae Graecae
	University of California
	Irvine, CA

Umm.  I don't have the ZIP handy, but you can look it up at the post office...

And please note the correct spelling in the address.
-- 
Rich Alderson   'I wish life was not so short,' he thought.  'Languages take
                such a time, and so do all the things one wants to know about.'
                                                        --J. R. R. Tolkien,
alderson@leland.stanford.edu                              _The Lost Road_
Newsgroups: sci.classics
From: andrews@Csli.Stanford.EDU (Avery Andrews)
Subject: Re: Powell on Greek Alphabet
Organization: Stanford University CSLI
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 03:40:20 GMT

In article  <1992Nov16.183821.26079@leland.Stanford.EDU>,
  Rich Alderson (alderson@leland.Stanford.EDU) writes:
 
 >Let's be clear on terminology here.   
 >
 >"Digamma" and "wau" are the names of a *letter*.  /w/ is the phoneme they
 >represent.
 
 >What may have been optional in the traditional songs was a phonetic realizati$
 >of the phoneme /w/.
 
oops.
 
                                                                                
  >I don't remember, and don't have any references at hand, whether there was a
  >"w" series of signs in Linear B.  Anyone?
 
There was, also in the Cypriot script (just peered in Chadwick, etc.)
  
Avery.Andrews@anu.edu.au
From: ph600fcy@sdcc14.ucsd.edu (Matthew Harrington)
Newsgroups: sci.classics
Subject: How many volumes would all Greek writings fill?
Date: 19 Nov 92 21:15:33 GMT

If someone compiled all of the literature, philosophy, history,
etc., written in classical Greek, how many volumes would this be?
Let us say that a volume is the size of an Encyclopedia Brittanica
volume, with which most people will be familiar.

					Regards,

					Matt Harrington

-- 
---------------------------------
Matthew B. Harrington
mbharrington@ucsd.edu

Newsgroups: sci.classics
From: karl_best@novell.com (Karl Best)
Subject: Re: How many volumes would all Greek writings fill?
Organization: Novell, Inc.
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 14:59:18 GMT

re: the Thesarus Lingua Greacea CDROM: Any idea where to obtain this disk,  
pricing, what format (Greek? English?) the content is in?

--
Karl Best                              Far away, across the field
Novell Tech Pubs           ...  __o    the tolling of the iron bell
Provo, Utah  801-429-3428 ..   -\<,    draws the faithful to their knees
kbest@doc.novell.com      ...(_)/(_).  to hear the softly spoken magic spell
karl_best@novell.com                      -Roger Waters, Pink Floyd
Newsgroups: sci.classics
From: alderson@elaine46.Stanford.EDU (Rich Alderson)
Subject: Re: >>Powell on Greek Alphabet
Originator: alderson@leland.Stanford.EDU
Reply-To: alderson@elaine46.Stanford.EDU (Rich Alderson)
Organization: Stanford University Academic Information Resources
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 18:38:21 GMT

In article <1992Nov12.033735.20291@Csli.Stanford.EDU>, andrews@Csli (Avery Andrews) writes:
>In article <1992Nov10.143512.16452@news.vanderbilt.edu>,
>  rickertj@athena.cas.vanderbilt.edu (John Rickert) writes:
>  
>  >   Just curious, but what argument or arguments does Powell make   
>  >regarding digamma?  It's needed at some spots for scansion, and yet
>  >it isn't written.
> 
>Powell believes that at the time of transcription (in the 750-850
>period, though I don't have the book here & am hopeless at remembering
>dates) digamma was used by the aoidoi optionally, & written down by
>the transcriber, using waw (but digamma had disappeared in ordinary 
>speech).  The motive for thinking digamma was there is that the
>transcriber invented upsilon for the u-vowel, which would not have been
>necessary if waw wasn't being used for something else.  

Let's be clear on terminology here.

"Digamma" and "wau" are the names of a *letter*.  /w/ is the phoneme they
represent.

What may have been optional in the traditional songs was a phonetic realization
of the phoneme /w/.

I don't remember, and don't have any references at hand, whether there was a
"w" series of signs in Linear B.  Anyone?
-- 
Rich Alderson   'I wish life was not so short,' he thought.  'Languages take
                such a time, and so do all the things one wants to know about.'
                                                        --J. R. R. Tolkien,
alderson@leland.stanford.edu                              _The Lost Road_
Newsgroups: sci.classics
From: alderson@elaine46.Stanford.EDU (Rich Alderson)
Subject: Re: a. C. n. L.
Originator: alderson@leland.Stanford.EDU
Reply-To: alderson@elaine46.Stanford.EDU (Rich Alderson)
Organization: Stanford University Academic Information Resources
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 18:48:24 GMT

In article <adjg.721875587@sour.sw.oz.au>, adjg@sour (Andrew Gollan) writes:
>This is given as the equivalent of 50 BC in some post classical material
>(including Asterix). Anyone know the decoding?

At a guess, "ante Christi nativitate quinginta"?
-- 
Rich Alderson   'I wish life was not so short,' he thought.  'Languages take
                such a time, and so do all the things one wants to know about.'
                                                        --J. R. R. Tolkien,
alderson@leland.stanford.edu                              _The Lost Road_
Newsgroups: sci.classics
From: jhelling@cs.ruu.nl (Jeroen Hellingman)
Subject: Re: How many volumes would all Greek writings fill?
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 10:11:25 GMT
Organization: Utrecht University, Dept. of Computer Science

In <41281@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> ph600fcy@sdcc14.ucsd.edu (Matthew Harrington) writes:

>If someone compiled all of the literature, philosophy, history,
>etc., written in classical Greek, how many volumes would this be?
>Let us say that a volume is the size of an Encyclopedia Brittanica
>volume, with which most people will be familiar.
>
This has actually been done. Almost everything from Homer till the Byzantine
Period seems to fit on one CD-ROM, thesaurus lingua greacea. A CD-rom can
contain about 600MegaBytes, But I don't know how filled up it is.

Jeroen

-- 
Jeroen Hellingman                 E-mail: <jhelling@cs.ruu.nl>
't Zand 2                         Phone: +31-3473-73935 (home)
4133 TB Vianen                    (18.00--21.00 GMT)
The Netherlands                   Answer in English, German, or Dutch.
Newsgroups: sci.energy
From: gary@ke4zv.uucp (Gary Coffman)
Subject: Re: Renewable Energy - solar
Reply-To: gary@ke4zv.UUCP (Gary Coffman)
Organization: Gannett Technologies Group
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 06:03:52 GMT

In article <Nov18.182720.65718@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> kk881595@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu writes:
>In article <1992Nov14.185409.17561@ke4zv.uucp>, gary@ke4zv.uucp (Gary Coffman) writes:
>|> Actually, all the approaches listed, with the exception of geothermal,
>|> *are* solar energy. And *all* have better efficiency than *direct* solar.
>|> However, the *most* efficient collectors of solar energy remain *plants*.
>|> Burning plants, freshly dead, or concentrated under tons of rocks for
>|> eons, is still the most efficient use of solar energy. And there is very
>|> little capital cost involved with setting up the "plants."  :-)
>|> 
> 
>I wonder what you mean by efficient.  If one considers the
>solar energy hitting a leaf, photosynthesis converting that energy,
>the plant forming cellulose from that energy, that cellulose 
>being collected by humans, then burned to produce heat, that heat
>converted to work that is then converted to electricity as
>the system, do you really claim that this is more efficient
>than even the worst photovoltaic cell?  If one added the
>additional processes involved in converting the plant to
>fossil fuel then the "efficiency" would be even worse.

Ah, but unlike photovoltaic cells, or solar thermal collectors,
it costs us nothing, or nearly nothing to deploy organic solar
collectors. Converting that energy to readily usable combustibles
also costs us nothing. Our only cost is that of recovery, and that's
only a fraction of the cost of photovoltaics.

Whether the *thermodynamic* efficiency of photovoltaics is higher
or not, I can't say, but the *economic* efficiency of plants as
energy collectors is a clear winner.

Gary
From: yodaiken@chelm.cs.umass.edu (victor yodaiken)
Newsgroups: sci.energy
Subject: Re: Greenpeace: Anti-US feelings
Date: 19 Nov 92 19:03:17 GMT
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst

In article <1992Nov17.161857.24416@gn.ecn.purdue.edu> dyrda@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Richard Dyrda) writes:
>
> As with the current thread on Greenpeace's amnesia on Saddam's environmental
>catastrophies, oh I forgot it was the US's fault because we were bombing
>him at the time. I'd like to show some other environmental disasters that
>Greenpeace seems to have forgotten.
>
> Yellow Rain usage in Afghanistan and SE Asia.
> RNS SSN Mike sinking in the N. Atlantic due to reactor fire.
> Eastern Europe, esp. Romania and Hungary and their garbage problems
> Daniel Ortega using chemical agents on Sandinista farms and "suspected" farms.

This is, of course, confused, innacurate, and absurd. 
I won't bother to refute this farrago of nonsense and misinformation line 
by line but  I am mystified by Daniel Ortega's use of "chemical
agents" on the "suspected" farms of his own party. What's a 
"'suspected' farm"? Why would Mr. Ortega use these "chemical agents" on
them? 

> It seems that Greenpeace only cares about Capitalistic countries' eco-
>faults. The US and the free world spend well over $1 trillion dollars
>on ours and the world's so-called ecological time bombs. I don't see any

Sounds alarming.


-- 


yodaiken@chelm.cs.umass.edu
From: dyrda@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Richard Dyrda)
Newsgroups: sci.energy
Subject: Re: Greenpeace: Anti-US feelings
Date: 20 Nov 92 14:54:14 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

>In article <1849@spam.ua.oz> jaskew@spam.ua.oz (Joseph Askew) writes:
>I was reading a biology paper once on the alledged use of 'Yellow Rain'.
>It turns out to be bee spit not biological or chemical weaponry. Another
>attrocity story from the dark side of the Cold War.

 Not only that but it is also made up of bee feces. It isn't alleged, when
the KGB files were opened it was plain as day. Also check out some books
on chemical warfare, specifically "Yellow Rain", it has some hideous
stories from some Afghanis who survived some attacks.

>Any evidence? It seems just to be stupid to spray chemicals on people you
>can shoot.

 Violet Chammoro (sp) has been trying to prosecute Ortega's Chief of
Staff who evidently ordered these attacks for some time now. And no they
couldn't shoot them because some of these farms were on Honduran soil.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Richard Dyrda                         |  "I'm your ice cream man stop
School of Nuclear Engineering         |   when I'm passing by!! They say
Idaho National Engineering Laboratory |   all my flavors are guaranteed 
c/o Purdue University                 |   to satisy!!" Van Halen 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Newsgroups: sci.energy
From: hawk@iastate.edu (John D Hawkinson)
Subject: Re: Pu production (was: Greennazis
Summary: fissile production and depletion in a pressurized water reactor 
Keywords: light water reactor, plutonium "breeding", fuel reprocessing
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Distribution: world 
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 20:33:29 GMT

Regarding the discussion thread on what's in nuclear fuel before and after it's
"cooked" in a reactor core...there's a computer program available through Oak 
Ridge National Labs that does isotope generation and depletion calculations 
for nuclear fuel (ORIGEN 2.1).  We've got a copy of the program here.  In the 
hopes of shedding some light on the numbers debate, I set up a test run for:

Pressurized Water Reactor (PWR), U.S. 
3.2% U-235 enrichment (typical early 1980s value--utilities are now going to
     higher U-235 enrichments to prolong the 'run time' between refueling
     outages and get more energy per ton of fuel).
3 cycles of operation; total burnup 33,000 MWdy/MTIHM.  (We're getting 33,000 
     megawatt-days per metric ton of initial heavy metal, e.g., uranium).

For each ton of fuel irradiated, we start with:
1000 kg uranium at 3.2% U-235 enrichment (e.g, 32 kg U-235), and no plutonium.

At the end of the irradiation, right when the fuel is discharged, we get:
956 kgs uranium at 0.8% U-235 enrichment. 

We also get slightly more than 9 kg of plutonium produced, for an 'enrichment'
of 0.9%.  Most of *that* can be recycled and burned in a nuclear reactor to 
make electricity, along with the U-235 that remains in the fuel rods.  

The upshot of this is that we started with 32 kg of 'fissile' isotopes (the 
'power-making stuff') in each ton of uranium, and at fuel discharge we have
about 14 kg of 'fissile' isotopes left.  (Extracting the 'fissile' isotopes
from the spent fuel for recycling is one of the goals of nuclear fuel 
reprocessing).

Scaling these numbers up to match the figures given for a "representative 
pressurized water reactor" as listed in Anthony Nero's "A Guidebook to Nuclear
Reactors", we have:

Total amount of fuel UO2 = 217,000 lbs.  (Metric: 98,636 kg).
Multiply by (238)/(238 + 16*2) to get weight of uranium: 86,946 kg, or about
87 metric tons.

So, plutonium produced for the whole core is: 
9.046 kg/ton U * 86.946 tons U = 786.5 kg with 33,000 MW-days (33 GW-day) of 
power produced.

Expressing this in the form used in the discussion thread, kg plutonium 
produced per GW-day of plant operation for our representitive PWR:
786.5 (kg Pu/plant) / 33 GW-day = 23.8 kg/GW-day.

"Actual mileage may vary" depending on initial fuel enrichment, total fuel 
burn-up, design efficiency of the reactor core, etcetera ad nauseum...

Hope this helped.
/s/ hawk@iastate.edu