From: Tagi@cup.portal.com (Tagi Mordred Nagashiva)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Another Crowley question
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 92 16:13:49 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1992Aug25.173429.1732@m.cs.uiuc.edu>

9208.25. e.v.


Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
The word of Sin is Restriction.


Since Gerald has written such nice posts lately, and since
I'm his OTO brother, I figured I'd come to his defense.  I don't
usually participate in these sling-bashings, but it sounded like
fun, and I wanted to take a poke at Robert. ;>  Onward...


Robert McGrath writes to Gerald Del Campo:

Now I'm REALLY mad.  First you call me a fundamentalist, now
you are calling me a christian and a sheep.  This is total and 
complete BS, as I have absolutely no use for Christianity or its 
moral code, and I formed my own opinion based on limited data. 

Sure, I am making a moral judgement of Crowely's behavior,  but it is
based on rather diffused notions of proper human behavior,
such as the notion that deceiving your friends is bad, exploiting
your friends is bad, cheating your friends is bad.  That is
"not straight" and that is what I am talking about.


Response:

I didn't hear any name-calling.  Gerald characterized your
TONE and your STYLE as sheepish and whimpy (my words), but I didn't
hear him talking about you.  I could be mistaken.

I find your words completely self-contradictory.  First you say
you have no use for 'Christianity or its moral code' and then you
go on to judge all kinds of things as 'bad'.  Really, check out
the above two paragraphs.  I think it may be the 'proper human
behavior' comments you make that repulse those like me.  Since when
did you become the bastion of propriety?  And how DOESN'T this
fit in with Christianity and its notions of moral sheep?


Robert:

I haven't said ANYTHING AT ALL about Crowley's writings or his "system".
ALL I said was that, so far as I can tell, he was a miserable excuse for
a human being.  Perhaps his writings have some value to you or others,
but that has little to do with my characterization of his behavior.


Response:

Actually, I find that you haven't said much of anything.  Did you KNOW
Mr. Crowley?  I doubt it, yet you are willing to condemn him as a 
'miserable excuse for a human being'.  Honestly, that sounds like the
Fundamentalist crap I keep hearing from many closed-minded, work-ethic,
proper-pantied, lullabouts.  Please!  Differentiate yourself quickly!


Robert:

I get the distinct impression that you are an enthusiastic apologist 
for AC.  I draw no conclusion from that hypothesis other than to
infer that there is little point in arguing with you about AC,
as you are taking it personally and I'm not.


Response:

While Gerald has at times seemed to fit this description rather nicely,
I think that his behavior in this thread has been above reproach.  It
sounds like he's trying to balance out your radicality and you are the
one taking it personally, but computers are tricky things, you know?


Robert:

If you want to avoid insulting me, don't EVER call me a christian
again.  And you might omit references to how I'm acting like
a sheep.


Response:

I COULD be insulted by your characterization and eschewal of the term
'Christian', yet I tend to think that insult and offense are taken
by the weak of will.

Why would we WANT to avoid 'insulting you'?  I think you are just
trying to key into any feelings of responsibility (misplaced) we
might have regarding your feelings.  If you can't take being called
names, then you better stay out of alt.flame.  It's HOT in here!


[no, I do NOT worship Mr. Crowley, and I DO consider myself Christian!
flame THAT, boys]


Invoke me under my stars.  Love is the law, love under will.


I am I!



Frater (I) Nigris (666 - the REAL one :D)