From: orson@bluemoon.rn.com (Craig Smith)
Subject: Re: Ozone depletion is a hoax
Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024])
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 92 23:42:43 EDT

murfeypj@HYDRA.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU writes:
> I don't remember the mechanism, but chlorine gas (Cl2) cannot make it
> into the ionosphere (where the useful ozone is) by itself, it needs a
> "ride."
> CFC's only break down under the high energy conditions found in the 
> ionosphere and above (intense UV light). In the lower layers of the 
> atmosphere, CFC's are quite inert (as you pointed out). Even if CFC's 
> were to break down in the lower atmosphere, they wouldn't do much to
> reduce the already very low ozone concentrations. The chlorine would
> more likely run into something else first and react with it, ending
> the chain reaction.
> CFC's take a long time (~50 years) to get from the surface to the 
> ionosphere. Turbulance is a stronger force than bouyancy, but it is
> mostly random in direction. This is why it takes CFC's so long to get
> to the ionosphere. Unfortunately, since they are inert everywhere but
> the ionosphere, the CFC's will get there eventually. Because of this
> even if CFC production were halted today, ozone conditions would 
> continue to worsen (at a decreasing rate) for the next ~50 years.

If it takes around 50 years to get into the ionosphere due to turbulance,
why can't turbulance do the same to chlorine from volcanos?  Especially
considering that chlorine gas is much lighter than CFC's, is super-heated
in the eruption, and already has a lot of turbulance?

> When a CFC molecule gets into the ionosphere, it is bombarded with
> very intense UV rays. Under these high energy conditions, the CFC
> molecule gives up a chlorine atom. This chlorine atom (Cl not Cl2)
> is _very_ active, and catalyzes the breakdown of ozone (O3) into 
> oxygen (O2). A single Cl atom destroys ~1000 ozone molecules before
> it runs into another Cl atom and becomes Cl2, which is harmless (I
> believe). 

No, actually Cl2 is *very* active.  It is highly curosive (sp?) due
to the last electron shell wishing to establish an ionic bond over
a covalent bond (Cl2 has a covalent bond). Chlorine in the presence
of just about anything causes a chemical reaction.  This includes
Chlorine gas from volcanos, which forms a lot of different chlorine
compounds, few of which have been investigated to find if they might
deplete ozone.

> I hope this sheds a little light for you. I am glad you took the time
> to try to find out about what is really going on up there, but it 
> upsets me that you would call an event a hoax simply because you 
> didn't understand it. This is the kind of reasoning politicians in
> Washington use.
> It is because of the erronious blanket assumption "If it is inert
> under one set of conditions (i.e. the lab), then it is inert under
> all conditions" that both you and the developing chemists made that
> got us where we are today. If some one had thought to check what
> would happen to CFC's when they got into the upper atmosphere, the
> planet would not be in the dire straits it is (assuming, of course, 
> that the information was not buried by the industry, which it may
> have been). 

The reason I call it a hoax is that all mechanisms I have heard that
get CFC's into the upper atmosphere could get just about any naturally
chlorine compound into the upper atmosphere, included NaCl, salt from
sea water, that there is one heck of a lot of that!  But no investigations
are made about those compounds, despite the fact that they are more
plentiful than CFC's.  
The only alternatives we presently have for CFC's now are flamable and
cannot directly replace CFC's in existing refridgerators and air
conditioners.  If CFC's are completely phased out in 5 years, should
your old refridgerator or air conditioner need a recharge, you will
have to get a new one instead.
Add to that the potentially explosive nature of using compressed flamable
gas instead,  and you are asking for a lot based on an "if".

However, I am glad that you took the time to answer as clearly as you
could, my questions.  Most others I have challenged flamed me.  Thanky
you for your civil response.

Craig E. Smith                                        csmith@onetouch.COM
Columbus, OH                                        orson@bluemoon.rn.com
"Life is a fulltime occupation."--Gene Kalman   ...!uunet!onetouch!csmith
"It's just one .sig after another."--me   ///<<<{{{[[[(((*)))]]]}}}>>>\\\
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