From: dixon@spot.Colorado.EDU (Life is real?)
Subject: Re: sour-sour
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 05:15:32 GMT

In article <1dprogINN9p2@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> msr7@po.CWRU.Edu (Mark S. Rzeszotarski) writes:
>
>>Subject: sour-sour
>>From: A.S.Chamove@massey.ac.nz (A.S. Chamove)
>>Date: Tue Nov 10 17:30:13 1992
>>
>>I want to make my sourdough more sour.  How do I do it?
>>
>>I have tried using more starter
>>putting in more sugar (so the yeast will make more sour)
>>letting it rise for 3-5 hours
>>
>>What makes the sour?  and I can I make the bread more sour?
>>
>>
>I have been experimenting with a couple of starters and the
>effect of temperature on the sourness of the bread.  Based, on
>my preliminary experiments I suggest you try proofing the dough
>for about 12 hours at close to 85 degrees F.  With two quite

Are you *sure* you mean proof the *dough* for 12 hours at 85 degrees?
Surely you'd expect it to rise and fall within that time.  But 12 hours
at 85 degrees is fine for the starter.  Does your bread just rise in
a couple of hours then sit there lookin' funny for 10 more hours?  How
to you prevent drying?  Signed, Skeptical.  (grin)

>different starters, I have found that temperature seems to
>be the key.  You will also get a more sour result if you use
>some rye flour in the bread.  According to the literature I have
>been reading, a temperature near 85 results in the rapid
>proliferation of several beneficial lactobacilli (bacteria) in
>the bread which help it to sour.  I built a temperature controlled
>proofing box and have been using it for my experiments.  Too bad

 I concur...a warmer proof results in a more sour starter.  You may
try using a warmer proof for the starter, proofed for long enough so
the starter actually gets past peak, i.e. about 18 hours.  Then go
ahead and make the bread, but expect it to rise slower.  I'd expect to
also need a warmer place (90-95 degrees) to raise the bread, and that'll
help get more 'sour' in the 'sour'.  Also, the rye is a good idea.  I made
bread that could make a pickle pucker by making a pure rye starter and
proofing for 24 hours at 75 degrees (1 tablespoon method described in
the starter doctor FAQ).

>it takes about 3-4 days between each experiment! (Not enough
>fiendish butter slatherers around!)

I'll volunteer!  I've been too busy for the last few weeks to make
my own!!

>        In summary, I suggest proofing for a longer time at an
>elevated temperature if possible.  Also, don't add too much sugar
>or you will inhibit the growth of the yeast.

Questions: 1) How would the sugar inhibit the growth of yeast?  By causing
it to outgrow itself, i.e. alcohol levels get too high?  2) Could you post
your temperature-controlled proof box design?  It's a hot topic (pardon
the pun) now and then around here, so I'm sure there's others besides
myself who would like to see it.  (Thanks)

>Regards,
>-- 
>Mark S. Rzeszotarski, Ph.D. (msr7@po.cwru.edu) CWRU Biomed. Eng.
>Medical Physicist, The Mt. Sinai Medical Center, Cleveland, OH, USA
>"So long and thanks for all the Saccharomyces Exiguus!"

More regards,
--
Brian S. Dixon, MSEE (briand@cv.hp.com) Computer Engineer.
Hewlett Packard, Inkjet Components Division, Corvallis, OR, USA
"Bye"