From: pharvey@mipos3.intel.com (Paul Harvey)
Subject: Re: Stop thinking? (Was: Why I am an atheist)
Organization: Jah! Ras TafarI!
	<1992Sep10.173920.7448@ac.dal.ca>
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 19:44:55 GMT

In article <1992Sep10.173920.7448@ac.dal.ca> hartigan@ac.dal.ca writes:
>Firstly - Jesus WAS God. 

Personification of God, of human flesh, separated at birth, transformed by
passage through his mother, Mary. When a virgin gives birth, you know
something is up, but you still have a baby of human flesh.

(regarding Steve's quasi-hereticism:)
>Well, this is so wildly heretical that I won't even bother calling you
>a heretic any more. :)  Once you recognize human creativity, it is 
>darn tempting to think that maybe humans created.........God? And this
>whole cosmology?  Yikes!

God created man in his own image and man, being only human, returned the favor.

>Humans assisting with the creation. That means God is not the sole 
>creator of the universe. He only created part of it...hmmmm....so 
>he is NOT the source of all goodness, then...just SOME of it.

Well, keep in mind that the transcendent it transcendent. Now that said,
assuming the human notion of source, yes God is the original source of all,
but there is only one constant and that is change. Change means recreation.
So from the W. American tradition, coyote and fox created the universe, but
they do so everyday and so does the human being, though seemingly oblivious
to this fact. And, just to tie back into my original statement, creation
sustaining and destruction are not transcendent, they are human
manifestations of the transcendent which is transcendent, of all.

>And if we can create independently, maybe we can do better than God!

Hmm, better? That is not transcendent, is it? Who defines what is better?

>Maybe we can create a heaven on earth - maybe...maybe <gasp> we...don't...
>NEED...God!  

We are not separated from Heaven by time, only by perception. Heaven is right
here, right now, only most don't see it for what it is. Do you see what life 
is really worth? Hell is not seeing. We have created Hell on Earth due to
our failure to see, can we restore Heaven? And NEED God? Tsk, tsk, tsk,
(you shoulda used wisk) that is once again not transcendent. Do you expect 
God to just quit? Try this mantra: The transcendent is transcendent.

>Maybe our creations will be inherently BETTER than God's
>once we get our act together.  Hurray!  Steve, old buddy, you've moved out
>of the middle ages and into the Renaissance!  The next step, of course,
>is that if we are independent sources of value, than a God-centered
>ethic is not the only one possible. There are OTHER ways to judge good
>and bad besides the whims of that stodgy old Yahweh...
>..and the only reason to obey Yahweh, now, is FEAR.

Knowledge of good and bad? Now I ask you, is that transcendent? Who needs
this knowledge to see the world, to do the right thing? And FEAR and DESIRE,
well you know the story by now, right?

>Hurray! We've just invented Fundamentalism! We've reached the modern
>age at last.  Fundamentalism, of course, is Christianity for the
>19th and 20th centuries. 
>Looking back on that little odyssey, it is fascinating how inevitably
>one step leads to the next. I was just free-associating, to see what
>the ramifications of the free will doctrine you espouse are...and one
>step after another the conclusions followed the pattern of Western
>Christianity since the Renaissance.  I see why, now, St. Augustine 
>and Luther and those guys insisted on predestination.  The other way
>leads inevitably to the anti-intellectualism (believe or burn, baby!)
>of Fundamentalism.

Brain death. They have eyes and yet they do not see. The Lord delivered
our kind FROM slavery, any longing for the broken shackles is of our own
design, any slavemaster found is not of the way of light.

>Comments?

Jah! Ras TafarI! Government says don't eat the plant, it makes you rebel.
Against what? Roma backwards is amor.

>"Two men say they're Jesus, ONE of 'em must be wrong..." (Dire Straits)

Ah, the Persian light/dark duality. Perhaps these two men are only advocating
the two opposite sides of the argument, perhaps the answer for you lies
somewhere in between. What is light without dark and dark without light?

>If this is YOUR dream, then you are the Creator of all I see....Yikes!
>That makes you.....God! Holy mackerel, sir, this is indeed an honour!

Ah, ah ah! Remember your mantra please. And also remember that Parker Lewis
can not lose.

>I have my own thoughts about Genesis 3 - English student thoughts. Big,
>important, SECRET, English student thoughts...:)

Allright, out with it already. We've been giving you all our secrets, sure
maybe they are not real valuable, but what did you expect from a free gift?
I expect to see a post on your thoughts on Genesis soon or I shall have to
turn you and your people into dung hills. Oh and while you're at it, I had
a dream last night and I expect that you will also tell me my dream and tell
what it means otherwise the same dung hill penality will apply. Sorry, 
justice is justice, why do you think that lady holding the scales is
blindfolded?

>Come on, tell me AGAIN that there's such thing as free will! Even YOU don't
>believe it! :)

Bend down low, let me tell you what I know. Can you hear the freedom train 
brother? We are going to ride that train, we are going to walk the freedom 
walk and talk the freedom talk. All across this country, we hear the word 
that man must be free, get ready. This is my right, I don't care who the guy 
is, I know my right. This is stand up for my right. And I won't give up the
fight. Tonight we go north to freedom, north in the metaphorical sense. First
we go underground as underman, then we go overground as overman. By plumbing
the depths, thus shall we know and scale the heights. We are all freemen,
but we must fight for that right, against those who would seek to enslave us.
This is dharma, this is do the right thing. This is not Zarathustra's Ape.

>Sean Hartigan
>hartigan@ac.dal.ca
>Space-age cybernomad, English student, veteran of 1,000 psychic wars...
>..and I STILL can't find my car keys!

Ah, let me see, I'm gettin' a vib right now, ah, um, that hurt, ah, I've got
it! Your keys are in your pocket! Ever notice how your keys are usually right
in front of you or where you left them last, it is a question of perception,
don't you think? Finding entails a search, ... of the mind.
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