HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: andersa@Riga.DoCS.UU.SE (Anders Andersson)
Subject: Re: Understanding language (Was: Re:  <None>)
Organization: Uppsala University, Sweden
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 17:39:31 GMT

In article <ANDERS.92Jul27023440@lise12.lise.unit.no>, anders@lise12.lise.unit.no (Anders Christensen) writes:
> It is a test given by military recruits, performed in the seventies.

>               Understands:  Swedish  Danish  Norwegian  Average         
>                      --------------------------------------------------
> Swedish recruits               -       23%     48%        36%
> Danish recruits               49%       -      69%        58%
> Norwegian recruits            88%      73%      -         81%
> 
> (Note: the "average" column comes from the book too. I'm not quite
>  sure how they manage to get 58 as the average of 49 and 69 ... )

Perhaps the Danish recruits were subjected to more samples of Swedish
than of Norwegian speech, thus giving less importance to the results
of the latter?  Just a thought.

By the way, the dashes seem to indicate the recruits weren't tested
with respect to their own language.  That's a pity; it might have
provided for even more interesting comparisons...

> Comments on those numbers?

I'd like to see averages calculated by language as well.  Assuming
that the number of recruits of each nationality was the same, they
might be something like:
                                69%      48%     59%

Perhaps that tells something about which language is easiest to
understand (even though I admit that the difference is not as
striking as for the averages by nationality)..?

> With these kind of understanding among military recruits, perhaps a
> Nordic military union isn't such a good idea after all :-)

No problem.  Just let the Swedish officers give the orders; they
will easily be understood by the Danish and Norwegian privates. :-)
--
Anders Andersson, Dept. of Computer Systems, Uppsala University
Paper Mail: Box 520, S-751 20 UPPSALA, Sweden
Phone: +46 18 183170   EMail: andersa@DoCS.UU.SE
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: kimmel@cortex.sai.vtt.fi     (Jyrki Kimmel)
Subject: Re: Shoes inside (Was: Re: San Diego Responds to Potential Dane Invasion)
Organization: Technical Research Centre of Finland (VTT/SAI)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 05:32:53 GMT

In article <1992Jul25.003220.20493@aero.org> dgolber@aero.org (Dave Golber) writes:
>>It takes a conscious action for me to
>>enter a home without removing my shoes.
>
>Ah: but do you leave your sword at the door?
>
>Dave Golber
>

Finns in general do not live in a role-playing game.
We do have laws agains bearing arms in public. The Finnish all-
purpose knife, puukko, specifically, is banned even when sheathed.
It does belong to some national costumes as an ornament, though,
and as such, can be found e. g. on people at the convention
of the Center Party of Finland. I wonder why the use of the puukko there so far
has not found any appropriate use! It may be only because we have
an old saying "olis kirveelle t|it{", that is, "we could use an axe here".

(sorry about the deviation from the original subject...)

Jyrki
-- 
Jyrki Kimmel, VTT Medical Engineering Laboratory kimmel@cortex.sai.vtt.fi
signature in proposal in peer review phase (PPRP). Proposed motto:
"El{m{ on kivaa!" ("Life is fun!")  -Kaisa-Maria, age 3
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: urf@ki.icl.se (Urban F)
Subject: Re: Shoes inside (Was: Re: San Diego Responds to Potential Dane Invasion)
X-Alternate-Address: N.G.U.Fredriksson.swe2001@oasis.icl.co.uk
Organization: None, on USENET I speak only for myself.
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 16:26:34 GMT

>In article <1992Jul24.152618.13664@midway.uchicago.edu> rtp1@quads.uchicago.edu (raymond thomas pierrehumbert) writes:
>> The only problem we have is that we follow the Swedish custom of
>> not wearing shoes in the house (keeps things cleaner).  

This is in fact not an all-Swedish custom.  In those homes belonging
to the "upper class", the wearing of shoes indoors is common.
(I've only got a little 1:st hand experience, so I don't know _how_
common it is _today_, or if it changes over time.)
-- 
 Urban Fredriksson  (more info in header)  Stupid ASCII map of Sweden: /
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: Martin.Helin@hut.fi (Martin Helin)
Subject: Re: Kate Moore/U of Finland
Reply-To: Martin.Helin@hut.fi
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Date: 31 Jul 92 10:59:57

emolinar@stake.DaytonOH.NCR.COM (Elizabeth Molinaro) writes:

*        The subject and keywords say it all:  I am
*        looking for Kate's e-mail address at the
*        U Finland, Helsinki, Linguistics Dept.

Try moore@cc.helsinki.fi

*        If you know her please forward mine:

I don't know her but will do.

	 Martin



--
Martin Helin	Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Internet : Martin.Helin@hut.fi UUCP : uunet.uu.net!kaira.hut.fi!s30986u
X.400 : G=Martin S=Helin O=hut ADMD=fumail C=fi
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: styri@hal.nta.no (YuNoHoo)
Subject: Re: Understanding language (Was: Re:  <None>)
Reply-To: styri@nta.no
Organization: Bohemians and Globetrotters, Unlimited
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 16:34:43 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.150657.1632@kth.se>, Tomas Eriksson writes:
>
>Actually, some terrible Swedish groups (especially 'dansband' and the 
>like) tend to make their own versions of foreign hits.  [stuff deleted]
> [...]
>A sad practice. If they don't expose you to this kind of torture in 
>Norway, you should be happy.

Sorry, it's even worse. Some terrible norwegian groups actually translates
their stuff into swedish before they release their terrible records in
sweden. As a decent norwegian I apologize for treating swedes like this.

(And, sure - we've got the same torture here. Viva MTV!!!)

---
YuNoHoo
From: Jakob Nielsen <nielsen@bellcore.com>
Subject: Re: DANSK mailing list - how to sub?
Organization: Bellcore - Bell Communications Research
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d1
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 17:23:50 GMT

In article <momotaro.711652333@odin> Bryan Stack, momotaro@odin.unomaha.edu
writes:
>Last year someone posted a message about a mailing list called DANSK, 
>with the address dansk-request@sysadmin.com.  My machine does not like
>this address; says sysadmin.com is an unknown host.  Is this group still
>going?  If so, what is the correct address for subscribing?


Yes, the list still exists. I got a message from it as late as today.
The address is dansk-request@sysadmin.com and I have had no problems
mailing to sysadmin.com. Try again. 
--
Jakob Nielsen, nielsen@bellcore.com, fax (201)  829-2645
Bellcore, MRE 2P-370, 445 South St., Morristown, NJ 09792-1910, USA
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: walrus@bessel.umd.edu (Grig Larson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Lego Rebuttal   was: Re: San Diego Responds to Potential Dane Invasion
Date: 24 Jul 92 15:27:24 GMT
Organization: Punkadyne Industries(tm)


Hmm. Well, a Lego Theme Park in America would be interesting, but I doubt
it would be very successful. A lot of examples were given, like slow rides
and a somewhat boring setup. 

Every few years when I was growing up, Sears around here would give a
sort of "Lego Tour" in which lego replicas of famous buildings would 
be on display. It was fun for the kids, but wasn't a great crowd attraction
according to a lot of store employees.

Personally, I *loved* legos, and still have mine. I'm married, and with a
child, and I still have a 4'x2' box filled to overflowing with those little
snap-together blocks. I would love to build with them again, but my cats
eat them. My parent encouraged me to build with them, and I have a lot of
sets that are pre-specialization, myself. I agree with the common complaints
that most pieces are 3-part space shuttles, but if you want basic blocks,
you can call the Lego Outlet in Conn, and get yourself a custom order. I
know, as a friend of mine did this to build a replica of a real castle he
plans to build. Prices are somewhat reasonable for bulk, too. Schools also
use this.
 
I guess as a Danish import, this is the best as anything goes. If you are
complaining about stepping on them as a parent, well, you can enforce where
they stay like my parents did. Once and a while a cat would get one outside
my room, but it wasn't a big problem. I would rather have to suffer a sore
foot or two in exchange for my son's (or daughter's if I get one) education.


 _S_T_A_R__________
/                  \ Starring Loki Sky Walker, Princess Freya, Ham Salami,
| "May the Norse   | Odin Ben Kenobi, and Chewbaccus. Coming soon to a
|  be with you..." | sweat lodge near you. Get in line now!
|                  |
\________T_H_O_R_S_/ walrus@bessel.umd.edu is irresponsible for his comments
From: ct@dde.dk (Claus Tondering)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Finnish question
Date: 31 Jul 92 06:57:35 GMT
Organization: Dansk Data Elektronik A/S

pjt@vipunen.hut.fi (Pekka Juhani Taipale) writes:

>There is another official use for these accented characters.  I think
>that both are used in the Saami language, which has an official
>position in Lapland, and thus they should be taken into account when
>designing a character set for use in Finland.

So are you saying that the S and Z with a hacek accent ARE required
by the Saami language? Does that include the Saamis who live in Norway
and Sweden, so that these two letters are also relevant in a Norwegian
and Swedish character set?

By the way, what is the relationship between Finnish and Saami? Are they
close?
-- 
Claus Tondering
Dansk Data Elektronik A/S, Herlev, Denmark
E-mail: ct@dde.dk
From: ct@dde.dk (Claus Tondering)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Question about Finnish
Date: 24 Jul 92 08:52:12 GMT
Organization: Dansk Data Elektronik A/S

ISO standard 6937 mentions that the Finnish language uses two characters
that look like S and Z with a small v above (a hacek accent).

I have never seen any Finnish text that uses these two characters.
Does Finnish use them? Or has Finnish used them in the past?
-- 
Claus Tondering
Dansk Data Elektronik A/S, Herlev, Denmark
E-mail: ct@dde.dk
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: strong@tc.fluke.COM (Norm Strong)
Subject: Re: Understanding language (Was: Re:  <None>)
Organization: John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, WA
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 18:46:29 GMT

In article <ANDERS.92Jul27023440@lise12.lise.unit.no> anders@lise12.lise.unit.no (Anders Christensen) writes:
}
}It is a test given by military recruits, performed in the seventies.
}(Sorry, there's no better description of it in the book, maybe someone
}else knows more, it could be interesting to see the whole report.) It
}tested how well they understood spoken language from the other
}Scandinavian countries. It is not stated anything about whether
}accents were used, how they measured 'understands', how many recruits
}were tested, the geographically origin of those tested, or what time
}of the year the test was done etc etc, so I can't guarantee the
}correctness of these numbers.
}
}Anyway, here are the numbers:
}
}              Understands:  Swedish  Danish  Norwegian  Average         
}                     --------------------------------------------------
}Swedish recruits               -       23%     48%        36%
}Danish recruits               49%       -      69%        58%
}Norwegian recruits            88%      73%      -         81%
}
}(Note: the "average" column comes from the book too. I'm not quite
} sure how they manage to get 58 as the average of 49 and 69 ... )
}
}Comments on those numbers?

You bet!  What on earth is the significance of the Average?  36% is the
average number of Swedish recruits that--what?  

It makes no sense at all to me.  Perhaps the percentage of Swedish
recruits that understand BOTH Danish and Norwegian would be of some
interest, or the percentage that understand at least one other language.

The average of 23% and 48% is without meaning.  

-- 

Norm Strong  (strong@tc.fluke.com)
2528 31st S.   Seattle WA 98144   USA
From: korkiako@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Jorma Korkiakoski)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Finnish question
Date: 29 Jul 92 22:04:54 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki

In <TML.92Jul29225946@hemuli.tik.vtt.fi> tml@tik.vtt.fi (Tor Lillqvist) writes:

>In article <1992Jul29.092653.21749@nntp.hut.fi> pjt@vipunen.hut.fi (Pekka Juhani Taipale) writes:
>   there are no compounds in which a certain combination of letters
>   triggers a different pronounciation than what the letters themselves
>   suggest, 
>   There is only one exception to this rule, the "ng" compound which is
>   pronounced differently than just "n" and "g" appended together.  An

>Don't forget the "nk" compound, for example "pankki". Are there other
>exceptions?
 
	Yup! When you speak Finnish you bind subsequent words together.
   	Example: "Tule heti t{nne!" ( Come here now! ) is pronounciated 
	as: "Tuleh_hetit_t{nne". ( The underscore denotes that the words
	are more or less "concatenated." ) 


	--j->k
-- 
/--+
+ Jorma Korkiakoski       + "[l{ panttaa s{mpyl{{s!" + 
+ korkiako@cc.helsinki.fi + - TKM -                  +
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: dudley.chi@xerox.com (Tim Dudley)
Subject: Classic Lutheran foods (was: Re: Importing goods from the U.S.????
Organization: Bell-Northern Research
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 14:41:54 GMT

In article <1992Jul31.060001.11709@sai.vtt.fi> kimmel@cortex.sai.vtt.fi    
(Jyrki Kimmel) writes:
>In article <1992Jul30.010033.12339@schaefer.math.wisc.edu>
junikka@schaefer.math.wisc.edu (Jari Junikka) writes:
>>jsamuels@lawlab_2.vill.edu (Jeffrey Samuelson) writes:
>>
>>2) Jello        (This probably would not sell well in Finland. Personally,
>>                 I don't like food items to perform for me. And why on earth
>>                 anyone would like to eat agar-agar and artificial
flavorings?
>
>The good thing about Jello is, you can be absolutely positively certain
>that no natural ingredient has interfered with the manufacture of
>the substance. And, life is so much more colorful seen through Jello.
>

I have never been to a Lutheran church supper at which some form of
Jello has not been served.  Most often, it's lime jello squares with 
shredded carrots suspended inside (don't know the Norwegian term for
this...), but often one can find red jello with little miniature white
marshmallows inside, and maybe topped with shredded carrots.  Classic
Norwegian fare!  (Along with lutefisk.  There are marked similarities
between the consistency of properly cooked lutefisk and Jello, and history 
tells us that unflavored Jello was used as a substitute for lutefisk by the 
early Scandinavian immigrants to Minnesota and North Dakota in the US, 
where lutefisk was hard to come by.  The characteristic "taste" was imparted
to the Jello in a variety of ways, most of which are too delicate to describe
here.  Due to Progress, one can now buy lutefisk in both Minnesota and North
Dakota fairly easily ,which may account for the decline in sales of unflavored
Jello in those places.)

For more fascinating Jello recipes, see the book "Scandinavian Humor and
Other Myths".

Incidentally, there was a Learned Paper presented at SIGGRAPH a few
years back concerning the light propagation properties of Jello, which is
worth having a look at.  The acutal reference escapes me. (You know how
Jello is...)

                             :-)
       
Tim

Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: tt@tarzan.jyu.fi (Tapani Tarvainen)
Subject: Re: Finnish question
Originator: tt@tarzan.jyu.fi
Organization: University of Jyvaskyla
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 15:23:38 GMT

In article <1992Jul29.092653.21749@nntp.hut.fi> pjt@vipunen.hut.fi (Pekka Juhani Taipale) writes:

>In article <9207271145.AA10264@Aragorn> ct@dde.dk (Claus Tondering) writes:
>>ISO standard 6937 mentions that the Finnish language uses two characters
>>that look like S and Z with a small v above (a hacek accent).
>>
>>I have never seen any Finnish text that uses these two characters.
>>Does Finnish use them? Or has Finnish used them in the past?

>Finnish language uses neither of them.

(Additional explanations omitted.)

>There is another official use for these accented characters.  I think
>that both are used in the Saami language, which has an official
>position in Lapland, and thus they should be taken into account when
>designing a character set for use in Finland.

Also, Estonian uses them: although there also sh and zh can be
substituted, it's still (or was recently ... ) officially disapproved.
And they're not present in ISO 8859/1 :-(.  (They are in 8859/2 if I
remember correctly, but that one doesn't have another character
Estonian needs much more, namely o with ~ on top.  As far as I can
tell, no ISO Latin variant allows writing Estonian properly.
Well, we can hope they'll get used to sh and zh ...
until everybody supports ISO 10646 in full :-)).
--
Tapani Tarvainen    (tarvaine@jyu.fi, tarvainen@finjyu.bitnet)
From: anders@lise4.lise.unit.no (Anders Christensen)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Reading about viking. (Was: Ro"da Orm)
Date: 27 Jul 92 21:16:04 GMT
	<1992Jul21.172659.22426@walter.bellcore.com>
	<1992Jul22.002514.27785@corax.udac.uu.se>
	<1992Jul27.070224.10036@koko.csustan.edu>
Organization: /home/flipper/anders/.organization

pierrehumbert, rtp1@quads.uchicago.edu writes:

>This all whets my appetite for history of the Viking era. Are
>there any recommendations for good texts for a casual reader?

What about 'the real stuff': the original sagas. 

They are often quite short, have a unique style, they don't lack
violence and a certain sence of 'humor', and they portray a lot of
interesting personalities.

I'd recommend the saga about Eigil Skallagrimson as a start, and maybe
also Snorre Sturlasons sagas about Norwegian kings. At least the
latter has been published in English, I think, and is often sold in
'tourist-traps'. It should not be too difficult to find in a bookstore
specializing in Nordic books.

-anders
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: jafitv@termo.unit.no (Jan Arne Fagertun)
Subject: Re: EC (Was: Laughing at americans)
Reply-To: jafitv@termo.unit.no (Jan Arne Fagertun)
Organization: SINTEF, Norwegian Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 09:11:18 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.001820.12268@ifi.uio.no>, oysteint@ifi.uio.no (\ystein Tvedten) writes:
|> > >
|> > >Tomas, and all of you pro-EEC's in Sweden and Norway :
|> > >
|> > >It's no good idea to say that "If Norway, Sweden, ..... join EC, ...."
|> > >as an argument for actually joining EEC.
|> > 
|> 
|> Why isn't it a good idea ? You NO people are so arrogant, acting like Norway
|> already has voted no to the E(E)C. 
|> 
|> > >Norway will not join EEC, and if you use norwegian EEC-membership as a
|> > >major argument for Sweden to join EEC, you might get into a problem
|> > >in just a short time.
|> > 
|> 
|> hey, nothing is desided about the EC in Norway YET, so stop talking like it
|> already have been desided!
|> 


Ooooooh, what a burst of adrenalin. :->

Don't be so angry, I think you understand perfectly well what I meant
(at least you should). After the danish "nej" the people against E(E)C
increased to a very clear majority. Of course, the situation may change
again, but from your (and other pro-people's) reaction the situation
seems pretty desparate. And believe me, if your medicine to the
norwegian voters is like your outbursts, the no-majority will surely
increase :-)


|> 
|> > >Besides, it looks like Denmark's membership may be questionable, too.
|> > >This may increase your problems. You may have to switch from saying
|> > >"Sweden must join EC because Norway and Denmark ...." to "Sweden must
|> > >join EC in spite of Norway and Denmark ....".
|> > 
|> 
|> Denmark voted no to the Maastricht(sp?)-treaty, about a closer political,
|> economic and military union, but it was not a no to the EC.
|> 
|> 
|> Yes, the major No-To-E(E)C party in Norway, Sosialistisk Venstre (SV) compares
|> the EC union to a new union with Sweden, something I find completely stupid and
|> idiot (like most of the leaders of SV, Anne-Inger - g} og heng deg)
|> 
--


I'm sorry for you that the situation looks desperate, but reactions like
this is surely just pathetic.

+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Jan Arne Fagertun, Research Engineer, SINTEF Division Termodynamics |
| E-mail: Jan.A.Fagertun@termo.unit.no                                |
| Phone : +47 7 596890                            Fax  : +47 7 944513 |
| Mail  : SINTEF/Varmeteknikk, 7034 Trondheim, Norway                 |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: tiger@vipunen.hut.fi (Karl R. Tigerstedt)
Subject: Re: Kate Moore/U of Finland
Keywords: looking for e-mail address
Reply-To: tiger@vipunen.hut.fi (Karl R. Tigerstedt)
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 05:22:34 GMT

In article <1225@stake.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> emolinar@stake.DaytonOH.NCR.COM (Elizabeth Molinaro) writes:
>
>        The subject and keywords say it all:  I am
>        looking for Kate's e-mail address at the
>        U Finland, Helsinki, Linguistics Dept.
       
     I can't help feeling a bit amused when such terms as Finland and Helsinki
are being mixed up. It's like saying: Univeristy of USA, Chicago. 
   The Univeristy of Helsinki is NOT the only one here...
-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I have only come here seeking knowledge.
 Things they would not teach me of in college"    - The Police
*** Karl Tigerstedt , email tiger@vipunen.hut.fi ***
From: junikka@schaefer.math.wisc.edu (Jari Junikka)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Importing goods from the U.S.????
Date: 30 Jul 92 01:00:33 GMT
Organization: Univ. of Wisconsin Dept. of Mathematics

jsamuels@lawlab_2.vill.edu (Jeffrey Samuelson) writes:

>In article <1992Jul29.185934.1@tnclus.tele.nokia.fi> 
>pbrown@tnclus.tele.nokia.fi writes:

>>  I have an item in mind that is available in the U.S. (yes, it's a legal
>>substance!) which Finns have never seen before, and which I believe
>>could go over quite well here.  I have absolutely no idea where to 
>>begin in pursuing this idea, so thought that maybe someone here could
>>help.  So, any experienced entrepreneurs out there?

>Let me guess, Crime or Peanut Butter :)........ 

My guesses:
1) Wonder bread (warning: this probably should be sold as 
                 bread substitute in Finland. That is the case in some
                 European country I've forgotten.)
2) Jello        (This probably would not sell well in Finland. Personally,
                 I don't like food items to perform for me. And why on earth
                 anyone would like to eat agar-agar and artificial flavorings?)


So Jeffrey, let us know what you want to market in Finland.
I'm sure the government will impose the proper duty/tax which
will depend on the marketablity of your product.
And if no one wants to buy it, then it must a luxory item
and so deserves to be taxed even heavier. :-)

jari
From: sharder@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Soren Harder)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Understanding language (Was: Re: <None>)
Date: 28 Jul 92 18:01:17 GMT
Organization: Centre for Cognitive Science, Edinburgh, UK

styri@hal.nta.no (YuNoHoo) writes:

>In article <ANDERS.92Jul28005142@lise4.lise.unit.no>, Anders Christensen writes:
>>
>>4) Norwegians, when speaking to Swedes, tend to fill in some Swedish
>>   words in the conversation, to make it more easy to understand, and
>>   thus not 'forcing' Swedes to understand Norwegian. I have seldom
>>   heard Swedes do the same thing.

>The question is, of course: Do the swedes "hear" that you're filling
>in these words?   :-)

Nope, often not. I know it from working as a (Danish written) language
consultant for a Norwegian. I understood 90% of what he was saying,
but I later found out (from my co-worker who is half Norwegian) that
he was practically speaking Danish. And I didn't notice a thing :-) :-).

Soren

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Soren Harder, (MSc student)
Centre for Cognitive Science, 2 Buccleuch Place, Edinburgh
E-mail: sharder@cogsci.ed.ac.uk
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^