HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: vjs@rhyolite.wpd.sgi.com (Vernon Schryver)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.fddi
Subject: Re: FDDI perf. numbers or reference.
Date: 16 Aug 92 02:15:45 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.  Mountain View, CA

In article <1992Aug14.142235.4913@puma.ATL.GE.COM>, gthaker@fergie.atl.ge.com (Gautam H Thaker) writes:
> I am looking for measured throughput and latency perf. numbers for FDDI net
> for experiments involving a small (2-6) number of modern Unix workstations.
> It would be particularly helpful if comparisons are made with same
> workstations connected via ethernet. Any ref. to published data would also
> be welcome.  Finally, can anyone tell me how FDDI handles broadcast
> messages for dynamically changeable subset of workstations?


The performance of UNIX workstations for TCP/IP or UDP/IP over FDDI
varies by at least a factor of 3, and perhaps 5.  From 20-30Mbit/sec to
50-98 Mbit/sec.  It depends on many things, of course starting with the
maker and model of workstation.

No single number would be accurate.  This is just like any other
benchmarking situation.


As for "broadcasts to dynamically changing subsets", some of us support
UDP/IP multicasts with communities defined with IGMP.  Others support
raw MAC level broadcasts.


Vernon Schryver,   vjs@sgi.com
From: koning@koning.enet.dec.com (Paul Koning)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.fddi
Subject: Re: Ring Purge
Keywords: Ring Purge, DEC, FDDI
Date: 21 Aug 92 15:09:54 GMT
Reply-To: koning@koning.enet.dec.com
Organization: Digital Equipment Co., distributed systems architecture


In article <1992Aug21.120827.26529@newshost.lanl.gov>, ajj@beta.lanl.gov (Andrew J. Johnson) writes:
|>Can anyone point me to documentation or a written description of
|>ring purge on an FDDI ring as implemented by DEC in their concentrators?

There was a paper on it in the latest LCN conference.

|>Does this give any other vendors of FDDI gear problems?

Not if they are implemented according to the standard.  Note that you can
turn off the ring purger if you run into bad implementations.

	paul
|>                                       Andy Johnson
|>                                       Westinghouse Savannah River Company
|>                                       u560115@lanl.gov
|>                                       (803) 644-1493
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.fddi
Subject: 100 
From: ejones@desire.wright.edu
Date: 17 Aug 92 12:44:07 EST
Organization: Wright State University 

I am looking for a little info on the proposed standard for doing 100 Mbs 
over unshielded twisted pair. Is this going to be called CDDI as the rumors
have it? What type of connectors will be "standard" for this? RJ45? Thanks
for the help.
	Ed Jones
	Dept. Of. Psychology
	Wright State University
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.fddi
From: 1841hss@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (anil.verma)
Subject: FDDI vs. ATM
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 17:26:33 GMT

I want to know about the pros/cons of FDDI vs. ATM.  In my opinion, ATM 
can provide more bandwidth that makes it suitable for Wide Area Links
but this is not an advantage in the LAN environment because computers 
today can't even exceed FDDI throughput limits.  Also, are there any
ATM cards available for computers like the prolifiration of FDDI cards?
Actually, the prices for FDDI cards are getting lower all the time -
something that was always one of my big complaints about FDDI.

Please post your views on FDDI vs. ATM or Email me directly.

TIA

Anil Verma
Email: attmail!averma
From: 1841hss@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (anil.verma)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.fddi
Subject: FDDI Testing
Date: 19 Aug 92 17:12:19 GMT
Organization: AT&T

I am trying to find out the FDDI throughput for Sun and Pyramid machines
and about FDDI Tests that have throughput numbers in general.  The source 
could be an ftp site or a technical/trade publication.

Please post any info or reply to me by Email.

Thanks in advance,

Anil Verma
Email: attmail!averma
Xref: sparky comp.dcom.lans:1898 comp.dcom.lans.ethernet:1691
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans,comp.dcom.lans.ethernet
Subject: Need a program to copy from PC to PC over ethernet.
From: jemenake@zeus.calpoly.edu (Joe Emenaker)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 02:09:14 GMT
Organization: California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo

I'm in an interesting situation here. I'm a technician for one of the
computer labs here at Cal Poly and we just got about 200+ 386 computers
that we're going to have in our computer lab and also issued to
secretaries. They're all going to have almost identical configurations and
software (especially all of the lab PCs). So, either my boss or I had the
idea of copying one computer's entire hard disk over to the other. I
suggested we use one of those spiffy serial null-modem programs. Well, for
a 120MB hard disk, that would take about 4 hours!

I got my hands on a program called FastLynx which, through crafty thinking,
is able to use a parallel port to communicate with 5 pins in either
direction. It would still take close to an hour to transfer this way,
though.

Then it hit me: All of these PCs have Hewlett Packard ethernet cards in
them and we have gobs of 3ft cables just waiting to be connected to them. I
figured, it would be great if I could somehow use the ethernet cards to
talk to each other like a null-modem cable is used for. Because, as I
understand it, ethernet RIPS! It's like 10 Mbits/sec or so isn't it?

So, to keep a long post from getting any longer, does anyone have a program
that would let me transfer files between two computers that were connected
by an ethernet connection?


-- 
Joe Emenaker - Sexual Engineer | It's not a fear of FLYING that I suffer from.
   jemenake@nike.calpoly.edu   | It's a fear of landing is such a way as to 
CalPoly, San Luis Obispo, Ca.  | exceed the performance specifications for the 
 (This is the .sig of the day) | airplane!  - Me
Xref: sparky comp.dcom.lans:1894 comp.sys.novell:6538 comp.dcom.lans.ethernet:1642
From: hoagland@cc.fsu.edu (Jim Hoagland)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans,comp.sys.novell,comp.dcom.lans.ethernet
Subject: Re: Remote access of PC via TCP/IP
Summary: I need access (control of) my PC via TCP/IP...
Keywords: remote access TCP/IP IBM PC
Date: 14 Aug 92 14:11:06 GMT
Organization: Florida State University Computing Center

In article <loher.9.0@cc1.unt.edu> loher@cc1.unt.edu (DarrenPaulLoher) writes:
>From: loher@cc1.unt.edu (DarrenPaulLoher)
>Subject: Re: Remote access of PC via TCP/IP
>Summary: I need access (control of) my PC via TCP/IP...
>Keywords: remote access TCP/IP IBM PC
>Date: 5 Aug 92 20:26:40 GMT
>In article <jonesw.712937298@whitefish> jonesw@rtsg.mot.com (Wesley S. Jones) writes:
>>Xref: mercury.unt.edu comp.dcom.lans:4236 comp.dcom.lans.ethernet:1565 comp.sys.novell:8822
>>Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans,comp.dcom.lans.ethernet,comp.sys.novell
>>Path: mercury.unt.edu!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!yale!gumby!destroyer!uunet!ftpbox!motsrd!white!rtsg.mot.com!whitefish!jonesw
>>From: jonesw@rtsg.mot.com (Wesley S. Jones)
>>Subject: Remote access of PC via TCP/IP
>>Message-ID: <jonesw.712937298@whitefish>
>>Summary: I need access (control of) my PC via TCP/IP...
>>Keywords: remote access TCP/IP IBM PC
>>Sender: news@rtsg.mot.com
>>Nntp-Posting-Host: whitefish
>>Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group
>>Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1992 14:08:18 GMT
>>Lines: 14
>>
>>I am looking for a software package which will allow me to telnet into my PC
>>and take control of its operation.  Such software packages are available for
>>the modem (pcANYWHERE and Carbon Copy are two examples) but I have not seen
>>such software for use over a LAN.  Does anyone know of such software?
>>
>>Please mail me any ideas which you might have.  Thanks in advance,
>>
>>Wesley Stuart Jones
>>-- 
>>%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
>>%%  Wesley Stuart Jones   	jonesw@rtsg.mot.com                     %%
>>%%                        	wstuartj@ecn.purdue.edu                 %%
>>%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
>
>There is a package called LAN-Assist.  It is commercial software.  It lets
>you take control of remote PC's on a novell network.
>
>darren@unt.edu

There is a package called "telnetd" and it is part of the WATTCP package 
which is public domain.

_______________________________________________________
Jim Hoagland             Internet: hoagland@cc.fsu.edu
Florida State University        ATTnet: (904) 644-2591
Academic Computing and
Networking Services B-168
119 Sliger Building
Tallahassee, Florida  32306
From: bnostran@ds5000.DAC.Northeastern.edu (Barbara Nostrand)
Newsgroups: alt.heraldry.sca
Subject: Heraldry Newsgroup
Date: 23 Aug 92 04:05:30 GMT
Organization: Northeastern University, Boston, MA. 02115, USA

Noble Heralds!

How fares the vote on the new heraldry newsgroup?

					Your Humble Servant
					Solveig Throndardottir
					Totally Ignorant
From: cls@truffula.sj.ca.us (Cameron L. Spitzer)
Subject: Re: Please write for a nuclear test ban (sample letter)
Organization: Save the Humans!
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 92 17:01:21 GMT
Summary: sample letter, bill number

In article <1992Aug22.063249.8543@truffula.sj.ca.us> cls@truffula.sj.ca.us
(that's me) writes:
>
>Summary:  Now's the time to write to help end nuclear testing.  There's
>progress, but it's not in the bag yet.

Council on Economic Priorities also produced a bulletin on this
legislation, and it came with a handy sample letter, and a list of swing
votes.

The undecided Senators are: William S. Cohen (R-ME), 
Alfonse M. D'Amato (R-NY), Alan J. Dixon (D-IL), David Durenburger (R-MN),
J. James Exon (D-NE), Bob Graham (D-FL), J. Bennett Johnston (D-LA),
and William V. Roth Jr. (R-DE).

Here's the sample letter from CEP:




The Honorable -------
U. S. Senate
Washington, DC 20510

                                          July    1992

Dear Senator --------,

I am writing to urge you to support the Nuclear Testing Moratorium,
S. 2064.  The bill offers a historic chance to not only stop nuclear
testing in the United States, but to affirm similar moratoriums being
adopted in other countries.  Public opinion has long supported a test
ban.  The end of the cold war makes a U. S. ban a timely and important
action.

Please do everything in your power to ensure the passage of S. 2064.

                                          Sincerely,



-end-
You could change "I am writing to urge you to" to "Please."
If you're just writing your own two senators, the second paragraph is
adequate.  If you write all the swings, please change the wording
around so it doesn't look like you ran it off on a mimeograph.
Congressmembers hate receiving mimeographed letters.

I corrected a spelling error in the swing list and added the first
names using the handy Congressional Directory available from Friends
Committee on National Legislation, 245 2nd ST NW, Washington DC
20002-5795, (202) 547-6000.  FCNL's weekly update is posted to
misc.activism.progressive.  Look for FCNL in the subject line.

Cameron Spitzer, San Jose, CA
Newsgroups: alt.save.the.earth,talk.environment
From: gaia@access.digex.com (gaia enterprises)
Subject: Re: Recycling window glass
Summary: separation of glass necessary
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 14:55:12 GMT

In article <5807@m1.cs.man.ac.uk>, bane@vtx.ma.man.ac.uk writes:
"so the glass used in clear bottles is different to that used in windows???
I knew that one had to be careful when it came to collecting plastics for
recycling.. but glass???!!!"

yes. glass has liquid properties (look at the waves due to settling in 
old windowpanes). glass is usually contains additional components 
(like metal ions for color). the thermodynamic effect of molal freezing
point depression / boiling point elevation will change the properties of
recycled glass if one is not careful what one tosses into the bin. guess
that's what the recycling companies are trying to avoid.

CM Tseng
Gaia Enterprises
Recycled Products List


Newsgroups: alt.save.the.earth
From: loren@bluemoon.rn.com (Loren Sims)
Subject: Re: Short commercials?
Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024])
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 92 11:53:38 EDT

In article <BsDK5A.59w@ais.org>
draper@ais.org (Pat Draper) writes:
  
...
> I was watching channel 50 from Detroit, and they had a 10 second blurb
> about how short commercials save electricity.  They also had a phone 
> number to call.
>
> Is this inane or what?  The network transmits from sign-on to sign-off
> at the same power, don't they?  And is it *really* such a big deal?
>
> My hypothesis is that short commercials use *more* electricity. if 
> anything.
  
  Actually, I don't see how it could make any difference, except that 
there *moght* be more power used with shorter commercials, assuming that 
that would mean *more* commercials, what with powering up equipment more
often or some such, but this isn't likely.  Short commercials *might* mean
use of less electricity for the people who produce the commercial, and of 
course, electricity use during the duration of the ad is less, simply 
because the duration is shorter, but as you suggest, they'll only fill 
that time with something else, so electricity use will be the same, unless
it means that the station will sign-off earlier because they're 'done'
earlier, but this doesn't sound likely either.
  
  My hypothesis is that they were pulling your leg.  It would be 
interesting to find out what sort of information is available from
that phone number.
  
  If you really want to save electricity, turn off the TV.
                                                                   -Loren

 This is from
     loren@bluemoon.rn.com
who doesn't have his (or her) own obnoxious signature yet
Newsgroups: alt.save.the.earth,talk.environment
From: cls@truffula.sj.ca.us (Cameron L. Spitzer)
Subject: Please write for a nuclear test ban
Organization: Save the Humans!
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 92 06:32:49 GMT


Summary:  Now's the time to write to help end nuclear testing.  There's
progress, but it's not in the bag yet.

Here's the text of the August 1992 20/20 Vision Bulletin:


                      Subject: Victory on Nuclear Testing

Background: On August 3, the Senate voted 68-26 (with 6 members absent) for a
nine-month nuclear test moratorium and a halt to all nuclear testing by 1996.
While different than the 12-month moratorium passed by the House, it is a
major victory - the first time the Senate has ever endorsed *any* limits on
testing.

The large margin of victory was surprising, and in no small part due to
intense grassroots pressure on this issue.  The proposal, passed as an
amendment to the Energy and Water Appropriations bill, calls for the following
provisions:

  o   A nine month moratorium on nuclear tests, from October 1992 to July 1993

  o   After the moratorium, the US may conduct up to five tests per year, no
      more than 15 tests, and test only to enhance the safety of nuclear
      weapons [sic], with two exceptions: one test per year can be conducted
      for reliability if Congress does not dissent, and one test per year can
      be performed for the United Kingdom.

  o   Before any tests, the President must make a plan for a multilateral
      comprehensive test ban, assess the number and types of US warheads
      remaining, and plan for installing modern safety features [sic] on each
      warhead.

  o   The US cannot conduct *any* nuclear tests after September 30, 1996,
      unless a successor state of the former Soviet Union conducts a nuclear
      weapons test.

While promising, these proposals face challenges in future Senate action on
the Defense Authorization bill and in the House-Senate Conference Committees.

     Action:  Write your Senators.  If they voted for the Senate testing
        moratorium, thank them & ask them to support a halt to testing.

        Senator -------, US Senate, Washington DC 20510  (202)224-3121

The following Senators voted *against* the nuclear testing moratorium:
Brown (R-CO), Bryan (D-NV), Burns (R-MT), Coats (R-ND), Cochran (R-MS)
Cohen (R-ME), Craig (R-ID), Dole (R-KA), Domemici (R-NM), Garn (R-UT)
Gramm (R-TX), Hollings (R-SC), Lott (R-MS), Lugar (R-IN), Mack (R-FL)
McCain (R-AZ), Nickles (R-OK), Reid (D-NV), Roth (R-DE), Rudman (R-NH),
Simpson (R-WY), Smith (R-NH), Symms (R-ID), Thurmond (R-SC), Wallop (R-WY),
Warner (R-VA).

Sens. Burdick (D-ND), Dixon (D-IL), Gore (D-TN), Hatch (R-UT), Helms (R-NC),
and Seymour (R-CA) were absent and didn't vote.

If your Senators are not listed above, they supported the moratorium.
-end-

20/20 Vision, 30 Cottage Street, Amherst MA 01002  (413) 549-4555 charges
20 bucks a year for these monthly postcards which list meaningful actions
that take 20 minutes or less to do.  Posted (with permission of 20/20's
Director) by Cameron Spitzer in San Jose.
From: red_trek@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.save.the.earth
Subject: To gilesm@bird, re: Short Env Tips
Date: 18 Aug 92 11:10:04 -0500
Organization: Carnegie Mellon Computer Club

NOte to: gilesm@bird

[apologies to everyone else for using a public forum
to target one person]

I tried to send you a copy of "Short Envrionmental Tips" via
e-mail, but my computer seems to think your node doesn't
exist or something!  I tried sending it as a file.  Did
you receive it?  Please let me know.

BTW, "Short Env Tips" was posted in this newsgroup a
few days ago.  It's expired from my site, but if it's
still in yours perhaps you could extract it.

Red_Trek@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
From: b_nbca@icarus.lbl.gov (Bruce Nordman)
Newsgroups: alt.save.the.earth
Subject: Re: Recycling window glass
Date: 18 Aug 1992 01:09:27 GMT
Organization: lbl
Distribution: world
Reply-To: b_nbca@icarus.lbl.gov (Bruce Nordman)
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.12.154

In article <5776@m1.cs.man.ac.uk>, bane@vtx.ma.man.ac.uk) (M i c h a e l ;-)
writes:
|> In article <1992Aug15.030425.27437@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>,
|> bj437@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Paul B. Hindemith) writes:
|> |> 
|> |> My science Club has been recycling the old windows from my school.
|> |> We're recycling the aluminum and steel frames, but the glass gets thrown
|> |> away because the recycling stations in my area (Omaha, NE) will only
|> |> take bottle glass.  Does this glass just have to go to the landfill?  I
|> |> wish it wouldn't!
|> |> -- 
|> |> bj437@Cleveland.Freenet.CWRU  Paul B. Hindemith  Omaha NE  Creighton Prep
|> |> <<sig deleted>>
|> 
|> ummm..... I don't see why they won't take it (you do have colored glass over
|> there
|> don't you?)... I'd be very tempted just to take it along to the nearest
|> bottle bank
|> and dump it in there!
|> 
|> Michael

Actually, this would be irresponsible.  Different kinds of glass
melt at different temperatures, and so any non-container glass
is often considered a contaminant by the glass factories.
This isn't to say that some glass factories might use window
glass (I don't know), but one can't assume this.  Also, when
materials that don't belong in a recycling bin start getting
added, even if they are actually ok, it encourages other people
to add materials that aren't ok.  There probably are routes
by which you could recycle the old window glass -- call a local
glass installer/store and ask what they do.

Bruce Nordman
B_Nordman@lbl.gov
From: bane@vtx.ma.man.ac.uk) (M i c h a e l ;-)
Newsgroups: alt.save.the.earth
Subject: Re: Recycling window glass
Date: 18 Aug 92 11:11:53 GMT
Reply-To: bane@vtx.ma.man.ac.uk
Organization: Magic Michael's Mushroom Factory.

In article <25558@dog.ee.lbl.gov>, b_nbca@icarus.lbl.gov (Bruce Nordman) writes:
|> In article <5776@m1.cs.man.ac.uk>, bane@vtx.ma.man.ac.uk) (M i c h a e l ;-)
|> writes:
|> |> In article <1992Aug15.030425.27437@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>,
|> |> bj437@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Paul B. Hindemith) writes:
|> |> |> 
|> |> |> My science Club has been recycling the old windows from my school.
|> |> |> We're recycling the aluminum and steel frames, but the glass gets thrown
|> |> |> away because the recycling stations in my area (Omaha, NE) will only
|> |> |> take bottle glass.  Does this glass just have to go to the landfill?  I
|> |> |> wish it wouldn't!
|> |> |> -- 
|> |> |> bj437@Cleveland.Freenet.CWRU  Paul B. Hindemith  Omaha NE  Creighton Prep
|> |> |> <<sig deleted>>
|> |> 
|> |> ummm..... I don't see why they won't take it (you do have colored glass over
|> |> there
|> |> don't you?)... I'd be very tempted just to take it along to the nearest
|> |> bottle bank
|> |> and dump it in there!
|> |> 
|> |> Michael
|> 
|> Actually, this would be irresponsible.  Different kinds of glass
|> melt at different temperatures, and so any non-container glass
|> is often considered a contaminant by the glass factories.
|> This isn't to say that some glass factories might use window
|> glass (I don't know), but one can't assume this.  Also, when
|> materials that don't belong in a recycling bin start getting
|> added, even if they are actually ok, it encourages other people
|> to add materials that aren't ok.  There probably are routes
|> by which you could recycle the old window glass -- call a local
|> glass installer/store and ask what they do.
|> 
|> Bruce Nordman
|> B_Nordman@lbl.gov 

so the glass used in clear bottles is different to that used in windows???
I knew that one had to be careful when it came to collecting plastics for recycling..
but glass???!!!
From: cfhammer@guvax.georgetown.edu
Newsgroups: alt.save.the.earth
Subject: Re: glass
Date: 23 Aug 92 10:12:52 -0400
Distribution: world
Organization: Georgetown University

In article <1992Aug23.091212.6989@news.iastate.edu>,
                txdv1@isuvax.iastate.edu (Angela KAY Rolling) writes:

> glass os a product made by melting silacon sand. it acures naturaly in 
> valcanic eruptions and is called obstadin (i beleve). natural glass tends to
> be black. because it does acure naturaly and natural glass has no - efect.

yes, glass does occur naturally, but the impurities in sand tend to 
color the glass (like carbon or metal ions).

> it is safe to asume that glass has no - efect (beyond punctured tiers). 
> silicon sand is not an endangered resorce like fossale fuels are. no mater
> how you look at it it takes more energy to recycale glass then to make more.
> reusing bottles is a difrint story.
>
> ELF-KIN

yes, it is true that sand is not an endangered resource, but there is 
another problem. glass makes up 8.2% of our landfills. anything we can
do to reduce (_along_ with recycle and reuse) our waste stream will be 
useful to our descendants. glass is the ideal material for recycling 
because it can be reprocessed over and over again without significant 
change. it does _not_ take more energy to recycle than to make more 
bottles. as long as the end user is conscious about sorting according 
to color type and glass type, the process is quite efficient (at least 
more so than repurifying from scratch). just make sure not to mix 
container glass with household glass (like plate glass windows, light 
bulbs, baking dishes, and car headlamps). remove all metal and 
ceramics. paper labels don't really matter as they are combustible. 
after you sort it, the cullet (industrial term for crushed glass) 
melts at a lower temperature and produces a high quality container 
again without too much energy and effort (like sorting).

CM Tseng
Gaia Enterprises
Recycled Products List
internet: gaia@access.digex.com
Newsgroups: alt.save.the.earth
From: calondis@meaddata.com (David Calondis)
Subject: Recycling Glass Bottles 
Organization: Mead Data Central, Dayton OH
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 12:56:08 GMT
Distribution: na

Anyone know of recycling efforts that exist for our favorite bars/pubs?
I hate to see so much glass being thrown away.  Don't bar owners/mgrs
realize they can cash in on glass recycling (at least at one center
near me...)?  
-- 
+-------------------+-----------------------+-------------------+
|    __o      __o   |    David Calondis     |    __o      __o   | 
|  _`\>,_   _`\>,_  | calondis@meaddata.com |  _`\<,_   _`\<,_  |
| ( )/ (_) (_)/ (_) |   Mead Data Central   | (_)/ (_) (_)/ (_) |
+-------------------+-----------------------+-------------------+
Newsgroups: alt.save.the.earth