HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ss1@kepler.unh.edu (The Rink)
Subject: Re: ESB- Luke & the Cave
Organization: Turkey Hall
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 23:08:03 GMT

>I thought of Luke's face in the Vader mask was to show that Luke 
>had as much hate and anger in him, as Vader did, and it could have
>fortold, if Luke turned to the dark side, he would become another
>Vader.

Sounds good to me.  And to add a few comments:  Yoda mentioned something
about Luke's "failure at the cave" proving he was not ready to face Vader.
I believe this has to do with Yoda saying "You will not need your lightsaber"
or whatever before Luke went into the cave -- but Luke used it anyway to fight
Vader's likeness.
-- 
-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-
| Samuel Stoddard  a.k.a.  The Rink |  I LOVE DISNEY AND BORDER COLLIES!!!  |
|    University of New Hampshire    |----------------------------------------
------------------------------------|  Freedom is not the right to do what  |
| Love is giving to the basic needs |  we want but the power to do what we  |
| of another without the motive of  |                        ought.         |
| personal gain. ___________________|_ss1@kepler.unh.edu____________________|
From: lim@pecan.cns.udel.edu (Julie Lim)
Subject: Re: ROTJ-Lynch, ROTJ-Soap Opera
Organization: University of Delaware, Newark
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 03:01:20 GMT

In article <1bav3nINNlbt@stanley.cis.Brown.EDU> ST201714@brownvm.brown.edu () writes:
>
>I DID like ROTJ, but I would much rather watch SW  and TESB any day.  They were
> less soap-opera-ish.  I was always waiting for Chewbacca to inform us that
>Chief Chirpa was a distant relative of an outcast Wookie, who helped Vader in
>the slave-trade.  Or that somehow, Wedge was Luke's half-brother from his mom's
> second marriage with the King (?) of Alderrann (sp?) 


	Gosh, you mean relating characters to lots of other characters is
*bad*? Damn, I knew I'd been reading trash all these years-- this, whaddaya
call it, Greek mythology stuff. Someone better have a word with Ovid and
Hesiod and those other hacks. :)

	Besides, Wedge is *not* Luke and Leia's half-brother (unless perhaps
you listen to Steve Tilson (poke)). He's their first cousin. I know these
things.

	(Sorry. I've been staying up too late writing SW fanfic again. Just
hit <N> next time and save yourself the trouble.)


-- 
	My job is in New Jersey. My net account is in Delaware. My money is
somewhere in between.

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: rex@cyclops.itc.gu.edu.au (Rex Baker)
Subject: Re: misc. 
Organization: ITC, Griffith University, Brisbane, Australia
Date:  8 Oct 92 06:34:28 GMT

bender@riscee.pko.dec.com (Patricia Bender) writes:


>I watched the trilogy again this weekend and had a few comments/
>questions.

>James Earl Jones was listed in the credits of ROTJ, but not TESB
>or SW.  Is there any official reason why he was ROTJ, but not TESB?
>I can understand not listing his name in SW, but am slightly confused
>about listing it in ROTJ but not TESB.  After the success of SW, you'd
>think that JEJ (fun with acronyms, FWA) would get credit in TESB.

>When Vader confronts Luke in TESB, he comments that Obi-Wan taught Luke
>well.  I can understand this as Vader did not know how long Ben had
>instructed Luke before Vader killed Ben.  Then, in ROTJ, Vader again
>comments on Ben's training of Luke and mentions how improved he is.  Now,
>wait a minute.  Ben is dead.  Vader knows that Ben is dead.  Why would
>Vader assume that Ben was still teaching Luke?  Is it common knowledge
>that the ghosts of past jedi hang around?  And, if so, why aren't there
>other jedi ghost floating around?  I mean, hey, they can spy on the Empire
>and pass information to the Alliance.  Okay, I'm getting carried away.  
>But the comment did strike me as ... wrongish.  Obviously, Vader had no
>knowledge about Yoda.


Hang about Patricia, surely the training and in particular the training 
techniques taught to Luke by Ben could be practised and his skills improved
greatly even after Ben had gone? My analogy is this - I'm learning to play
the guitar and even though I no longer go to lessons with my previous teacher,
I still practise the techniques etc. that he taught me and obviously this
leads to improvement (vast) in the playing skills. So even though Vader
didn't know about Yoda, it is not unreasonable for Vader to make the statement
in ROTJ.  :-)

Also, remember that "the force was strong" in Luke - so presumably with
his "talent" it would not take as much training as some....


>With this argument, I would have to lean towards Uncle Owen or Aunt Beau
>not being related to Vader:  If there were so few forceful people/beings
>left and the force is powerful with Skywalkers, it wouldn't make sense to
>allow him/her killed (hey, those ghosts could have warned them (= ) or not
>to train him/her.  (Yes, I know, arguments about how they didn't want 
>anything to do with the force follow.)  I always liked the idea that they
>were related to Luke's mom.


>patricia

Anyway, they`re just my own thoughts regarding your questions.
Rex.
R.Baker@itc.gu.edu.au
From: pip@pro-freedom.cts.com (David Pipgras)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Re: misc.
Date: 7 Oct 92 07:25:11 GMT
Article-I.D.: pro-free.1992Oct7.002511.2131
Organization: ProLine [pro-freedom] AppleVan (Apple UG of Vancouver, WA)

James Earl Jones was not given screen scredit in Star Wars, becuase *HE*
felt he did not deserve it for just a day's work...George went along with
his requests, but did make him re-do the vocals for Vader several times, so
that he earned enough money for his efforts... 

George finally decided that he was gonna get screen credit for ROTJ,
whether he liked it or not...


As for the Vader/Obi-Wan connection, I think he took a guess that Obi-Wan
had been teaching Luke for a while, and that lead to the comment, not to
mention that *HE* was taught by Obi-Wan.  In ROTJ, Vader made a comment
that Luke had improved his abilities....not that Obi-Wan had helped him
improved his abilities..... I suppose he assumed that luke had been
practicing in between the time of the two meetings, and growing stronger in
the Force, etc...

Dave
==============================================================
From: sjs28257@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Steve Stelter)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Re: Vaders death
Date: 12 Oct 92 15:43:45 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.Bw0MCz.8uH
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

deitch@gisatl.fidonet.org (David Deitch) writes:

>I say both you are wrong.  Vader's existence depended on the Dark Side of the force.  His life, whether he realized it or not, was tied up with the power of the Emporer.  Without the Emporer, Vader's power and control over the force was too diminished to keep him alive.  

>More, I believe Vader's arguments to Luke to overthrow the Emporer were simply to lure Luke into the Dark Side, that they were planned by the Emporer, sinc I find it very difficult to believe that with all the Emporer's power he would not know what is going on in Vader's mind.

I feel uncomfortable viewing Vader as nothing more than a mind-pawn of the
Emperor; he's...well...too *cool* for that.  Besides, Vader must have been
acting on his own in Bespin at the very least, unless the Emperor is able
to keep mental control and surveillance on Vader from across the Galaxy.

Here's an alternate theory that I don't think has been mentioned yet: Vader's
life depends on the Dark Side, as mentioned above, but not on the Emperor.
That is, it was Vader's own hate, combined with the power of the Dark Side
of the Force, that gave Vader the will to stay alive.  (That and his
respirator, of course.)           

In this case, Vader's death is a direct result of him abandoning the Dark
Side and becoming good.  When he left the path of evil, he also rejected
the very energy that he had previously relied upon to keep body and soul
together.

                           --Steve Stelter
                             sjs28257@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars,alt.mythology
From: lim@pecan.cns.udel.edu (Julie Lim)
Subject: Re: ROTJ-Lynch, ROTJ-Soap Opera
Organization: University of Delaware, Newark
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 23:25:02 GMT

In article <1992Oct15.134650.15252@news.acns.nwu.edu> ssc@nwu.edu (Steven Chung) writes:
>In article <1992Oct14.235601.19965@udel.edu> lim@pecan.cns.udel.edu (Julie Lim) writes:
># 
># in _The Libation-Bearers_, by <mumble> (Aeschylus?), there appears 
># Chyrsothemis, a daughter of Clytemnestra and Agamemnon who isn't referred to
># anywhere else in mythology or classical lit.
>
>Nope.  Iliad, Book IX, line 145, where Agamemnon mentions his daughters:
>
>Xrusothemis kai Laodikh kai 'Iphianassa
>
>[Chrysothemis and Laodike and Iphianassa (Iphigenia)]


	Mon dieu! I stand abashed! (Bash. Bash. Okay, you can stop bashing
now-- ouch!)

	But now that we're cross-posting to the realm of experts, is there
or is there ain't cases of classical writers suddenly deciding that two
characters were related, when no such bond had been documented before? I
have no solid proof, but I definitely think such creativity didn't just begin
in the past century or so.


-- 
Coming soon: lim@graphics.rent.com
Please direct mail to this new address. I need a reason to use my local
(and free, as far as my phone bill goes) account. Murky buckets.
From: d'mayeur@tier.key.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: New Lucasfilm Mag?
Date: 16 Oct 92 19:15:36 GMT
Organization: Allegheny College


	

	Just to make sure, is there anyone out there who reads this  
newsgroup AND who also subsribes to the Lucasfilm Fan Club?
	It seems to me that the new all-telling issue should have been  
released by now. [...Or is the club delaying it on purpose?...]
	So, would someone with these resources at his/her disposal please  
type in a summary of the Lucas interview?

		Thanks.
From: jordan@castor (USENET's Chuck)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Re: Vader's weakened character
Date: 14 Oct 92 02:18:36 GMT
Organization: University of Georgia

I saw Darth Vader's change in character in a different way.  In Star Wars,
he was powerful, but he was also not really in charge.  Grand Moff Tarkin
was the head guy in charge of the Death Star, and Vader was really just a
big scary henchman who could choke people.  (He was the most memorable
character from the first movie, but if you'll look at the power struggles
in the movie, he seems more like a Merlin-type character than the most
powerful figure in the Empire.)  In the second film, the Emperor is intro-
duced, and he is naturally Vader's superior.  However, he's on a distant
planet, so Vader is in charge of the fleet while they're recouperating (sp?)
after the defeat of Death Star.  So, he is really the main villain of the
second film, because he is in control of all the attempts to capture Luke's
friends and Luke himself.  In the third film, the Emperor takes personal
control over what he sees will be the final destruction of the Rebellion,
so we get to see more of Vader being subservient.  Add to that the fact that
ROTJ was generally a "sweeter" (sickeningly so) movie and you get the change
in Vader's character.

So... there.

CHUCK

-- 
                  Chuck Jordan | jordan@castor.cs.uga.edu
SPY Magazine's 1,000 Reasons Not to Vote for George Bush:
   NO 15: In January 1992 he said, "I will do what I have to to be reelected."
From: tlg4@po.CWRU.Edu (TJ Goldstein)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Re: No more movies?
Date: 12 Oct 1992 14:02:59 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: tlg4@po.CWRU.Edu (TJ Goldstein)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc5.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, pjm6z@kelvin.seas.Virginia.EDU (Dave Lister) says:

>In article <1992Oct10.183114.1108@zia.aoc.nrao.edu> jogle@zia.aoc.nrao.edu (Jim Ogle (Ks. Jim)) writes:
>>In article <mumble> wool8657@mach1.wlu.ca (john woolsey 9209 U) writes:
>>
>>>I remember hearing somewhere that Lucas said he would film movie VII when
>>                                                                  ^^^
>>
>>Just to be picky, that should be movie I, since the next movie should
>>be the start of the first trilogy.
>>
>
>Why, what makes you the authority of which trilogy Lucas will do next if
>he even does one at all?  Personally I see absolutely no point to the
>first trilogy even being put onto the screen.

Um, this is a pretty well established fact, here.  Has been for about
ten years.  He's not being snotty, just trying to eliminate confusion.


-- 
Assistant Sysop, SF&F Sig       (GO SCIFI)|TJ Goldstein
Primary Sysop, CWRU Safety Sig (GO SAFETY)|tlg4@Cleveland.Freenet.Edu
Chat Coord., Academy One Sim's   (GO ACAD)|
                  Still waiting for Radish Dude ...
From: flowerpt@coos.dartmouth.edu (Bill McGonigle)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Re: No more movies?
Date: 15 Oct 92 02:04:10 GMT
Article-I.D.: dartvax.1992Oct15.020410.22506
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

In article <Bw336L.EtM@mach1.wlu.ca> wool8657@mach1.wlu.ca (john woolsey 9209 U) writes:
>>>Why, what makes you the authority of which trilogy Lucas will do next if
>>>he even does one at all?  Personally I see absolutely no point to the
>>>first trilogy even being put onto the screen.
>>
>I agree the first trilogy will be fun, but I doubt they will do it up front
>since the third trilogy is far more sellable. I see the first trilogy as
>more likely to be contracted out at a later date. Probably from Lucas's
>estate once he bites it.

Actually, about two years ago, Lucasfilm announced that when they did the
next movies, it would be the first trilogy.  I remember hearing about it
on the morning newscast.  It made me quite happy.

For those skeptics out there, who need everything documented, I was
listening to WHTZ, 100.3, out of New York City that morning.

-Bill 
-- 
Bill.McGonigle@Dartmouth.edu  - Stir, Whip, Stir, Whip, Whip, Whip, Whip, Stir, 
Beat -To Make Bantha Suprise - "Do you ever get the feeling that the story's too
damn real, and in the present tense?"-Jethro Tull  -  I shot J.R. - H. Simpson
Snail Mail: HB 2660, Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH, 03755-4015. (603) 640-5780
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: thealien@unlv.edu (Sean McCarthy)
Subject: Star Wars Glasses
Organization: UNLV
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 02:05:58 GMT

	I have I *think* a complete set of Star Wars/ESB/ROTJ glasses.
If I did, and they were all unused, what would be the value, likely?

	The thing is, I can't remember whether I got Jabba or not...hmmm..
____________________________________________________________________________
Sean McCarthy IS             {  }"I'm told it's my duty to fight against
thealien@cs.unlv.edu          }{   the Law, that there's freedom in my blade
thealien@redrock.nevada.edu  {  }  and that wizardry's my trade.."
"Chaotic is NOT Evil!"- Me    }{    -Black Blade by Blue Oyster Cult
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 13:33:47 EDT
From: Eric Leven <ESL108@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Re: ESB- Luke & the Cave
 <1992Oct13.033351.308@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> <SS.92Oct13073819@wpi.WPI.EDU>
 <1992Oct14.055833.29131@bohra.cpg.oz.au>

The above are all fine interpretations, I agree with all of them. However,
I also believe the following:

Luke is told that he doesn't need his weapons by Yoda. Luke ignores the advice
and takes his weapons in case of danger. What Luke doesn't realize is that
weapons symbolize one route to the dark side. The use of violence, etc to
solve his problems will lead him to the dark side, and to become another Vader.
Hence, Luke's face in the mask.

Eric Leven
"Film Major"
Penn Sate University

"I am NOT a comittee!"
From: jogle@zia.aoc.nrao.edu (Jim Ogle (Ks. Jim))
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Re: No more movies?
Date: 10 Oct 92 18:31:14 GMT
Organization: National Radio Astronomy Observatory, Socorro NM

In article <mumble> wool8657@mach1.wlu.ca (john woolsey 9209 U) writes:

>I remember hearing somewhere that Lucas said he would film movie VII when
                                                                  ^^^

Just to be picky, that should be movie I, since the next movie should
be the start of the first trilogy.

>he was completed with the young indiana jones series. So if it went well it
>would be quite a while. Since the young indianna jones series seems to have
>flopped miserably I guess we will be hearing Star Wars soon.

Young Indiana Jones did not flop, its apparently doing quite well.
ABC bought a bunch of new episodes for this season so Lucas is going
to be busy for at least a little while longer with the show.

-- 
Kansas Jim (Jim Ogle, TORG guru)                               /|
jogle@aoc.nrao.edu (NRAO-VLBA, Socorro New Mexico)           o| |-
"I'd be apathetic if I cared."                              /| \|
From: shoham@ll.mit.edu (Daniel Shoham)
Subject: Re: Vader's Tie Fighter
Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 92 17:02:48 GMT

In article <1b34vpINNq8r@bigboote.WPI.EDU> joea@wpi.WPI.EDU (The Mighty Vanguard) writes:
>Say what?  You are making a BIG assumption that solar panels today work the
>same as they do in the intergalactic society of Star Wars.  This is not going

Hardly. I make no assumption about technology other than to say that efficiency
is never above 100% (or in other words I assume conservation of energy is
still valid). There is not enough energy IN solar radiation to be relevent
no matter how good the collectors are!


>to be the case.  It's also possible that the solar panels only serve to
>recharge the fighter's fuel cells when its too far away from its home Star 
>Destroyer and convienently near a solar body.  Who knows?  The panels might

The Tie fighter will have to bake in front of a star for a VERY long time if
it wishes to store up enough energy for a long duration flight elsewhere.

>not be purely 'solar' but also collect various interstellar background 
>radiation as well.  So, before we 'through' the sourcebook away, let's give it

Interstellar backgroung radiation is even less energetic than solar radiation.

A more reasonable use for the panels would be as some SENSORS (i.e. like
antennas) that need a lot of cross section area in order to get enough
signal from weak sources.

(the comment about throughing a book away was for dramatic effect, not to be
taken too seriously).

>a decent chance of explaining the advanced technlogy it's supposed to and not
>use 20th century standards as a close comparison.  Just my $0.03   Later
>******************************************************************************
>  NoRMaL life : Joseph S. Amato   InterNet : joea@wpi.wpi.edu (130.215.24.1)
>  IRC name    : Vanguard          RingNet  : (508) 791-3298      
>  Street name : Joe               SlowNet  : WPI Box 2714 Worcester, MA 01609
>******************************************************************************
>  A Quote:               
>     "Doesn't everyone realize that apathy is the key to life?" -lguthrie  
>******************************************************************************
>

Dan Shoham
shoham@ll.mit.edu
From: g-martin1@uiuc.edu (Gregory A. Martin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Re: The real story on the new ROTJ script
Date: 17 Oct 92 03:52:54 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.Bw8ys7.DAt
Reply-To: g-martin1@uiuc.edu (Gregory A. Martin)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Originator: gamg6900@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu

ss1@kepler.unh.edu (The Rink) writes:
>Okay, guys, let me clear things up.  I sent in the changed version of the
>ROTJ script.  The differences are as follows:
>	Approximately ten scanner errors -- things like a "1" being scanned
>		in instead of an "I", and a comma instead of a period, etc.
>		Only about TEN of these.
>	The Lando scene was taken out and put in a separate file.  This
>		wasn't even my doing -- I just moved it to the end.
>	The page headers (page numbers, etc) were taken out.  This is the
>		biggest change, and the only worthwhile one.  The format is
>		now such that the script reads straight through with no
>		page boundaries or anything.
>That's all, folks.  So if you'd like to download a copy of the script in this
>format, fine, if not, it is no big deal.  *NO* significant changes were made,
>and NOTHING was changed in the content, wording, or anything else of the

Actually, if you're going to take out stuff that didn't appear in the final
movie then you should also take out:
	Scene 44: The sandstorm
	Scene 68: Vader choking the Emporor's guards
	Scene 51: Ben talking to Luke contains extra dialog
	Lando death scenes

						Greg Martin
						g-martin1@uiuc.edu
From: pip@pro-freedom.cts.com (David Pipgras)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Re: Delta Source Scrutiny
Date: 8 Oct 92 06:47:16 GMT
Article-I.D.: pro-free.1992Oct7.234716.2160
Organization: ProLine [pro-freedom] AppleVan (Apple UG of Vancouver, WA)

In <1687812A97.MHART00@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU>
MHART00@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU (mason hart) writes:

>With Zahn going to so much trouble to keep the identity of
>Delta Source a secret, it almost has to be a person.  He's
>trying to set up a surprise for his readers, and something
>as mundane as a "bug" would be far too anticlimactic.  My
>money's still on Winter.
> 
>"Life IS pain.  Anyone who tells you differently is selling something."
>-- mason hart, rice u.



Hmmm.. Maaaybe, just maaaybe Zahn is trying to point out Winter sooo much
that everyone will think that it is too obvious, and look for another
person to be Delta Source, that when she *IS* revealed as Delta Source,
everyone will go...."Duhhh...I thought that's who it was, but that was too
obivous...."

Well, ok, so I bored waiting for Volume III....

Dave
==============================================================
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: alumni106@camins.camosun.bc.ca (Max Sterling)
Subject: Re: Vader's Death
Organization: Camosun College
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 07:16:59 GMT

In article <1bcagtINNjrc@bigboote.WPI.EDU>, mmartin@wpi.WPI.EDU (Matthew Wayne Martin) writes:
> 

> 	STAR WARS wasn't meant to be and isn't a very complex story.  There are
> few if any hidden meanings (especially in ROTJ).

Are you out of your MIND?!? The complete trilogy is absolutely riddled 
with symbolism! If you can figure out what Lucas was trying to say in 
each of the movies, you'd not only have a better understanding of 
martial arts, but you would probably have a much better understanding of 
the meaning of life itself. Sure, you COULD always commit blasphemy and 
merely look at the saga as a mindless shoot-em-up, but to do so would be 
to ignore the whole point of Star Wars. Mata ne.

                                                         -=]> Max <[=-

+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Kup- "This reminds me of the time when my   +-> Kup- "You ever SEEN a Regulan|
|      my platoon was stranded on Regulan IV;|         Metal Monger, lad?"    |
|      there we were, only SEVEN HUNDRED of  |   Hot Rod- "Uh, no,..."        |
|      US, against THREE WHOLE REGULAN METAL |   Kup- "TRUST me! We were      |
|      Mongers!"                             |         outnumbered!           |
|Hot Rod- "Seven HUNDRED of YOU? Against     +--------------------------------+
|          THREE of THEM? Aw, come on, Kup!"-+ alumni106@camins.camosun.bc.ca |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+