From: mahadeva@point.cs.uwm.edu (Aruna Mahadevan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: More about India
Date: 6 Oct 1992 23:01:29 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin, Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.2.5

In article <1992Oct6.150358.28380@coe.montana.edu> prem@cs.montana.edu (M.P.Premkumar) writes:
>Hi nettors,
>
>It seems suddenly people realised that India is not a place for women to live
>in. Oh yeah and USA is always better. BULLSHIT.
>
>I just saw arguments by people based on their experiences in Delhi and Bombay
>alone. Maybe eave teasing happens in Madras, Bangalore and Calcutta too. Anybody
>heard of any eave teasing in towns and villages ? Any incidents ? 
>
My friends and I have experienced the same harrassment on buses in
Delhi, Bombay, Bangalore and Madras, and yes, also in towns.  We've also
had to duck into bookstores or shops to avoid being followed home --
this in broad daylight, with PLENTY of people walking around!!  
We couldn't travel from Bangalore to Hyderabad to take a test without
being harrassed on the bus!  I suppose you would blame us for going
'unescorted'???

>The truth is people here are over exaggerating the issue very much. Yes, its
>true that eave teasing is there in big cities. But it doesn't mean that all
>men are like that. Maybe a few. But the few make their presence felt. One
>example I can offer in the same lines: The foul mouthing of some "civilised"
>nettors against some members of the opposite sex. If someone read SCI and
>decided that all Indian men are like that then will you all accept that ?
>
I wish you wouldn't generalize -- how do you know what it feels like for
women to dread going to College on the bus?  I don't know where you went
to College, but when we went to College, 90% of the men were like that,
and that is a conservative estimate on my part.

>USA is better than India in treating women eh ? I assume people just study
>and study and don't look around what's happening here. Did any of you see
>the statistics of sexual harrasment in USA ? Did any of you see the series
>of women beating cases shown in CNN and other news bulletins ? Based on my
>observations I think USA treats women very very badly compared to India.
>
You don't think these things happen in India?  Alot of cases like these
don't come out in India because the women are so embarrassed by the
harrassment and keep it a secret or all the brainwashing that if she is
beaten by the husband, she MUST be doing something wrong to DESERVE
it!!!  I've actually heard people ridicule the poor woman who has been
harrassed and has been bold enough to come forward, which explains why
there are so few cases reported.

>Here women are nothing but sex objects to men(most of them). Men stare here
>also at beautiful women passing all kinds of comments. Whereas in India the
>teasing stops in the roads here it follows the women wherever she goes. And
>they get beaten by their husbands(I accept that this is common in India too)
>and their boy friends. 
>
So when men harrass women on the buses or trains in India, they are
actually respecting them and not treating them as sex objects??!!
I've actually had NO experience of sexual harrassment in the US, and I
used public transport for the first three years that I was here.  Did
you stop to think how emotionally distressing it is to be harrassed even
walking on the road.  You don't have to actually touch a woman to make
her feel cheap and dirty.  I've had a lot of "educated" Indian men tell
me that I should get married and raise babies, and leave the jobs to the
men, whose right it is to have the job!  Is that not treating women as 
baby-making machines?   I don't think anyone is exaggerating here.  USA
is much better in treating woemn as individuals, but it has a long way
to go yet.  India has twice as far to go!  
I remember reading a report about a policeman in Delhi adivsing a woman
to stop fighting with her husband and go home when she went to complain
about physical abuse.  The motivation behind this is respect for the
woman, right??

>Guys here are always looking for women for sex. And most of them do get what
>they wanted by persuasion or force. Men go to bars to "pick up" girls for the
>night. The work place is also not so good to the women here. And I can tell
>for sure that offices in India are much better than here in the USA where
>women are always apprehensive of what might happen to them.
>
Well, all I can say is that these things happen in India too.  
Office atmosphere can be the same in
India too.  I have worked for almost a year here now without feeling
"apprehensive".  In fact, my views are solicited and I feel respected.

>The schools are biased towards men here. Did any one of you read the reports
>about how girls are discriminated in the school education system here ?
>
Discrimination is everywhere - nobody said USA is perfect.  I have
personally found that women hesitate to study Engineering or Math for
fear of being labelled nerdy or geeky but how many of you actually had
a serious discussion of Math or Physics with your woman classmate in
College in India?  More women may study science in India but how many
opportunities do they have to demonstrate that they know their stuff?

>So for heavensake don't try to glorify USA and degrade India at every 
>opportunity. And don't just complain on everything in India without you
>doing anything to help. [I remember seeing a report that Delhi Women students
>formed an action group against eave teasing - I wonder how many of the people
>who complained here did anything of that sort when they were in India].
>While I accept that women are not always treated well in India I also say that
>USA is no better.
>
I don't see anyone glorifying USA.. they just pointed out that it is
easier to avoid being sexually harrassed while commuting and women do
get a little more respect here than in India.  Maybe women are raising
their voices now in Delhi because they have had enough -- when we were
in College, people believed that the only reason a woman would be
sexually harrassed would be if she provoked the guy -- nobody would
believe otherwise; so we had no recourse but to forget the incident
and go on or quit school!  I think that the change has to come through
education, and that requires a receptive audience.  Also, the parents
of boys and girls should educate them that girls can be anything they
wish to be.

>
>Sincerely yours,
>M.P.Premkumar

Aruna