HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: alix@solwarra.gbrmpa.gov.au (Alix Walker )
Subject: Re: another Nippon goof?
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Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 03:30:08 GMT

> Or things like Iron Fist or Stone Fist, which certainly sound like extremely
> damaging strikes intended to do real killing damage. If they are not killing
> damage strikes, then why does the book say that Strike is not a particularly
> potent manuever?
> 
> BUT, is there a rule somewhere that tags Unarmed Combat damage as non-killing
> damage? We've never reduced damage from Unarmed Combat attacks.
> 
>Chris, in the rule book pg 76 under Stun Damage.. "This includes blows from
clubs, rubber bullets, fistfights, and knockout gas"
                       ^^^^^^^^^^

When checking for damage from a stun-type weapon, ignore knockdown result,
treat a wound as a knockdown, and any #wound result has the number reduced
by one.

The trouble with making the Strike as the regular STR+2 is does that mean
only those styles with Stike get to have STR+2. This would seem to
contradict one benefit of martial arts. I would say that someone just
forgot to add in the damage. I'm open to other suggestions though, but KJ's
is a good one.

Winston (in a box)
 
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: alix@solwarra.gbrmpa.gov.au (Alix Walker )
Subject: Re: another Nippon goof?
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Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 01:47:43 GMT

> I've always assumed that the Strike was the basic martial arts attack
> maneuver and all it does is allows you to get the +2 damage bonus that
> Martial Arts gives you anyway (why they bothered making it a maneuver
> and why some styles don't get it but get the +2 damage modifier anyway
> kind of invalidates the idea but it was the best I came up with).
> 
I know, that's the problem with assuming that it is the basic maneuver. So
if it isn't, then what can it be?
I thought that it might just be a +3, or something (haven't really decided).
The troube (the other trouble) is that the Block/Strike is a combination of
the two (I think so anyway?), which lends to it being the basic +2.

Well I'm open to any suggestions, someone must play it as something.

Winston (in a box not wanting to learn any style with Stike)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: hudson@dragon.cpe.ulowell.edu (Kevin Maurice Hudson)
Subject:  Accelerated time
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Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 21:56:17 GMT

==> On Tue, 25 Aug 92 15:20:55 MDT, oakes@jupiter.nmt.edu (David Oakes) said:

  DO> if i remember correctly, one can bypass the power push table,
  DO> but this requires the spell to be illusory, which would confer
  DO> no bonuses to learning or healing, but might fool the body into
  DO> thinking that it has slept, but not much more

  DO> dave "of course, i could be totaly wrong on this push thing"
  DO> oakes


Bzzzttt! Wrong answer.  The way to get past the power push table is to
use magic as the mechanism.  Any other mechanism requires that the
result points be pushed.

All conjurations are illusory unless they use an essence as the mechanism.

--
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Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: alix@solwarra.gbrmpa.gov.au (Alix Walker )
Subject: Re: Reality Bubbles
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Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 23:39:38 GMT

> Yes, they are more useful but does it make sense to allow
> contradictions in reality bubbles?  That was why I originally ruled
> (forgetting what it said in the rulesbook) that you couldn't - if you
> are strengthening the connection to your home reality shouldn't there
> be some penalty or restriction on creating contradictions?  Of course,
> if you feel the normal contradiction rules are enough of a penalty
> then run it that way - YMMV.

Not really should there be more penalties. If your standing in your home
cosm but causing a contrdiction (eg: ninja in Nippon fireing a Cyberpapacy
gun) then there is no additional penalties. I was trying to say that a
reality bubble effectively means that you are causeing the contradiction
as if you were in your home cosm, no matter where you are presently standing.
I really do believe that this is the interpretation which is meant by the
Rule Book. If you can't cause contradictions (which was how we used to
play it) there is also times when you want to but can't, some of these
are life threatening. I know that this is not a good reason so you can
ignore it but, it seems strange that something which you have even have to
spend a PP for to help you, you would sometimes be better off without.

> 
> And that Dark Avenger using the parachute - why bother with a reality
> bubble?  The parachute will be a four-case contradiction regardless!
> 
The were jumping into a pure zone, and he wanted to Fear straight away
(I think that was the reason, long time ago now)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: Jim Ogle (Ks. Jim) <jogle@aoc.nrao.edu>
Subject: Re:  timlines
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Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 16:51:21 GMT

Cliff writes:

> Question:"How would you (you being any of the experienced TORG GM's
> which inhabit these lines) structure a campain which is going to be
> constructed alomost purely from the published modules?"
> 
> The way I read it, the possibility chalice adventures should be near
> the start, are there any (shorter) ones which can be played before
> these.  I would like to have a bit of GMing experience under my belt
> before I tackle these.

Well, "Before the Dawn" is a good place to start (it comes in the
boxed set); its a pretty good intro adventure and serves as a good
introduction to the Living Land, the Nile Empire, and you could use
stuff from the Orrorsh sourcebook to make the final scenes a good
introduction into why Orrorsh is not a fun place to visit.  8-)

I'd move on to the Possibility Chalice modules after that, with maybe
one or two homegrown adventures in between (since you have to get them
from Indonesia to the US) - I did it that way with a small Orrorsh
adventure (pre Orrorsh SB but it still made everyone afraid of
Orrosh), a small Nippon Tech story, and then a big adventure in the US
that I used as a lead-in to "The Destiny Map".  If you wanted to you
could use some of the small adventures in "Full Moon Draw" and/or
"Cylent Scream" instead of brewing your own.

After "The Forever City" its pretty much up to you what order to run
things in; most of the adventures in FMD and CS can be used about
anywhere in the timeline.  A lot of the stuff in "The Cassandra Files"
can be turned into good adventures too, though some of them should be
used early on in the timeline.  Some of the adventures in
"Queenswrath" aren't bad either (but they are limited to Aysle
adventures).  

I'd put the following modules into the timeline in roughly the order
below, but be sure to put small adventures between them:

*	Crucible of Pain (strikes me as being early in the course of
the invasion)
* 	Operation Hard Sell (after Nippon Tech invades North America
of course)
*	High Lord of Earth
(Space Gods arrive sometime between these two modules)
* 	Temple of Rec Stalek
(Tharkold arrives sometime between these two)
*	City of Demons (a couple of months after Tharkold invades)
*	Central Valley Gate (ditto)

If you are interested in getting story ideas you'll probably want to
consider subscribing to the Infiniverse newsletter (information is in
the boxed set or can be found in the FAQ list when I post it sometime
soon).  

Kansas Jim (jogle@aoc.nrao.edu)
From: usenet@transfer.stratus.com (Mr. Network News)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
Subject: Re: Stuff more rediculous than the Gravitic Ray Gun
Date: 1 Sep 92 22:34:57 GMT
Reply-To: Dave_Wetzel@vos.stratus.com
Organization: Dave_Wetzel


Christopher Michael Lawyer asks for other way-too-powerful stuff in torg:

Playing a Race Cyber-mage (tharkhold SB) I can offer lazer armor as 
perhaps the single most rediculously powerful spell.  Concider:

  * You can get it as a begining character (need alt magic + light to be 
    about 18, not too tough).  
  * It's backlash and difficulty are fairly low.  
  * You cast it on yourself, so there's no possibility of someone 
canceling 
    any PP you put into it.  
  * The bonus goes to the effect value (20 or so) and this total becomes
    your armor value *AND* your base damage in unarmed combat.

You can easily get a 30+ armor rating and do 30+ damage whenever you touch 
someone or when someone touches you!

Chilling Dark is another high power Tharkoldu spell with low cost.  You do 
an intimidate to anyone in an area with a value of 22 + bonus.  If you get 
a setback, the victim can do nothing but sit and shudder.  Hideously 
effective.  And again, available to first time characters and low 
backlash/difficulty.

--------------
Dave_Wetzel@vos.stratus.com
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: Jim Ogle (Ks. Jim) <jogle@aoc.nrao.edu>
Subject: Re:  Living Land Miracles (was  Re: cosm placement (hindsight) (was Re: GENcon))
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
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Rick replies:

> > Wow, Rick liking something about the Living Land!  8-)
> 
> 	I like some of the fundamental concepts in the Living Land (the
> Viet-Nam aspects, the back to nature bits, the natural settings vs American
> pop culture), but the handling of it bit rocks.  I have yet to see an 
> adventure in the Living Land that was not one of these three plots
> 
> 	1> rescue the Core Earth hostages from Edeinos
> 	2> rescue the CEH from Spartans
> 	3> escort some schmuck into the LL and keep him outa trouble

Definite agreement here.  Of course, that shouldn't have stopped you
from making up your own LL adventures....  8-)

It's interesting that most of what WEG has done with the LL has been
just using it more as a setting for the plots of other invaders than
for anything that the lizards are doing themselves - Operation Hard
Sell had a Nippon plot, the Destiny Map had a Nile plot, Central
Valley Gate had a Tharkold plot (plus Spartans plus Nippon plus a
"rescue the hostages" plot).

> 	Okay, so Stalek was the exception, but other than that, WEG

Although it did have the "rescue the hostages" plot as part of its
main thread too....

> has been singularly unimmaginative in their handling of the LL.  Also,
> IMHO, the setting doesn't lend itself well to RPG's.  It would well if
> you were heavily into role-playing and wanted to spend a lot of time
> hugging trees and storytelling with the optants, but there doesn't seem
> to be much to appeal to gamers.

It depends on the gamers I guess.  While I'll agree that most of my
players don't like the Living Land, there used to be a group of gamers
around here that played AD&D in a primitive caveman type of setting and
they probably would have liked roleplaying in the Living Land....

Kansas Jim (jogle@aoc.nrao.edu)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: cbekar@fraser.sfu.ca (Clifford Bekar)
Subject: timlines
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 07:12:44 GMT

Quick question by a relative newcomer to the TORG mythos. Last
Christmas my family was perceptive enough to notice my subtle
hints concerning my desire for a copy of TORG.  I quickly talked
my long term AD&D group into giving it a shot ("cards, what kind
of RPG uses cards...").  Soon we were all hooked.
 
Now that I have all the sourcebooks, a fairly good grasp of the 
rules, and a willing set of players, I find myself preparing for a
TORG campaign.  What I I really don't have, however, is a good grasp
of the timeline.  One of the great things about TORG is that nothing
happens in a vacuum, it all ties in to a ongoing backdrop against
which the characters operate.  While this provides a great sense of
consistency, and gives the game a motivation, it also constrains.

Question:"How would you (you being any of the experienced TORG GM's
which inhabit these lines) structure a campain which is going to be
constructed alomost purely from the published modules?"

The way I read it, the possibility chalice adventures should be near
the start, are there any (shorter) ones which can be played before
these.  I would like to have a bit of GMing experience under my belt
before I tackle these.

Thanks in advance for any help on the topic!

Cliff Bekar
Simon Fraser University
From: oakes@jupiter.nmt.edu (David Oakes)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
Subject: Re:  Plans for people's cosmverses...
Date: 2 Sep 92 18:51:36 GMT
Organization: University of North Texas
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Michael Gersten(michael@stb.info.com) dares:
 ! 10. Western
 ! 	as soon as I can figure out where they should land.

(i know i am going to hate myself in the morning, but...)
west of China, just past the Himalayas, maybe a bit south

dave "i dont use smileys, figure it out for yourself" oakes
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: Rick Jones <albert@crick.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu>
Subject: Re: Discontinuous Realms (was Re: GenCon Report)
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Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 15:01:54 GMT

> not as contrived as the explanation of the NT/LL zones in the west -
> how the stelae are not used by both sides, but that BK (re?)planted them
> so perfectly close to the new NT ones, that they form mixed zones (???)
> (i think that was what rick posted, claiming it from WEG via GEnie)

	Um, that was just my theory as to how they did it.  It wasn't 
official.  
-- 
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Voice: 713-798-7352			standard disclaimers apply
    Wanted:Scrodinger's Cat.  Dead or Alive.  $10,000 Reward.
From: albert@crick.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu (Rick Jones)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
Subject: Re: Other high tech axiom toys
Date: 2 Sep 92 20:12:48 GMT
Organization: University of North Texas
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> dropping rocks on Illmound keep deleted

	That reminds me of the old joke.

Q: What happens when you drop an a-bomb on Chthulhu?

A: 10 seconds later, he's back.  Radioactive and mad as hell.

	Illmound keep is alive, in some sick sense.  And I hope that
when the Gaunt Dude returns, they give us a possible map of his home.
Of course, it shouldn't stay consistant if anyone's foolish/lucky
enough to go there twice.
-- 
Rick Jones				Systems Support Center
albert@bcm.tmc.edu			Baylor College of Medicine
Voice: 713-798-7352			standard disclaimers apply
    Wanted:Scrodinger's Cat.  Dead or Alive.  $10,000 Reward.
From: oakes@jupiter.nmt.edu (David Oakes)
Subject: Re:  Accelerated time
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Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 22:50:19 GMT

hudson@dragon.cpe.ulowell.edu		uhqfba@qentba.pcr.hybjryy.rqh
 !   DO> dave "of course, i could be totaly wrong on this push thing"
 !   DO> oakes
 ! Bzzzttt! Wrong answer.  The way to get past the power push table is to
 ! use magic as the mechanism.  Any other mechanism requires that the
 ! result points be pushed.

and using magic as the mechanism increases the base difficulty,
and since a day is TORG val 18, we are still talking an effect of 26

 ! All conjurations are illusory unless they use an essence as the mechanism.

this reminds me:
in a homebrew game with a VERY open magic system, Time has been a pet of mine.
what has been hashed out is that to actually CREATE time - so that the passing
hour actually confers the benefits of a day - requires conjuration.

of course, this is not neccessarily so in TORG, as alterations are powerful,
aguably as powerful as conjuration in most cases, but i see alterations as 
making a long time seem short by slowing you down (stasis fields), or making
a short time seem long by speeding you up (??? - maybe different plane of 
reality, a la Star Trek and comic books), but not being able to grant you
an extra day, or make someone else age fifty years...

dave "apportation, maybe.  Joe Mage, Time Vampire..." oakes
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: hudson@dragon.cpe.ulowell.edu (Kevin Maurice Hudson)
Subject: Magic as mechanism and spell difficulty
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Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 19:02:00 GMT

==> On Tue, 25 Aug 92 19:35 PDT, michael@stb.info.com (Michael Gersten) said:

>and using magic as the mechanism increases the base difficulty, and
>since a day is TORG val 18, we are still talking an effect of 26

Sorry... a day is a value of 25.  An hour is 18.  A minute is 9.
Think of a 25 hour day and you'll remember that a day is also a value
of 25.

  MG> Ok, how does using magic as the mechanism increas the base
  MG> difficulty?  I know that it increases the state path, but I have
  MG> never seen that dominate the total spell sum.  --

Doesn't increase the base difficulty at all.  It generally adds 3-8
points to the state path though.  Sometimes this can kick the Maximum
value up enough to make the spell total a bit large.  As they pointed
out in the Aysle source book:  having Magic so close to the inanimate
forces and elements make destruction spells easy.

--
hudson@dragon.cpe.ulowell.edu		uhqfba@qentba.pcr.hybjryy.rqh
Kevin Hudson, Systems Manager		Xriva Uhqfba, Flfgrzf Znantre
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From: jogle@aoc.nrao.edu (Ks. Jim)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
Subject: Reconnection
Date: 31 Aug 92 20:28:27 GMT
Organization: University of North Texas
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Cinton replies:

> >Well, a monitor would just have the base of 25, as the penalty for
> >axiom differences only applies to four-case contradictions.
> >
> Well, I don't think this is true, for two reasons...one, when he disconnects,
> he is now operating under LL axioms, so using the tool to reconnect IS a four
> case contradiction... and two, if you don't interpret it this way, an Akashan
> using say, a short bow, has the same difficulty reconnecting as one using the
>Ray?!? I figure the Eo1 can reconcile Tech 8 with Tech 7 easier than reconcil-
> ing tech 30 with tech 7... otherwise, why bother using low-tech weapons? (I
>like the idea of someone carrying a short bow... sure, it's cutting edge tech-
> nology for the LL (and thus a contradiction), but it's a lot easier to recon-
> nect with than a .44 magnum!

Well, under the first interpretation every reconnection attempt is
going to be penalized unless you travel to a realm that supports
whatever disconnected you.  Also, I don't think you have to use the
item to reconnect, since you cannot use it while you are disconnected
(remember, while disconnected you cannot create contradictions).  

I agree in principle with your second point though.  However, if you
penalize someone that way on a one-case it takes a lot of the "bite"
out of the 'four-case contradiction blues', since there is now little
difference between the one-case and four-case situations.  

In other words, if they both carry an axiom based penalty and the only
difference is that one occurs slighty more often than the other, why
NOT risk those four-case contradictions?  If I had a choice between a
+16 and a +19 reconnection penalty (Tech 23 weapon vs Tech 26 weapon
in the Living Land) but the damage values are 17 or 26 I'll take the
bigger damage and slightly bigger reco penalty.  Yeah, the odds are
that I'll disconnect more often but fights will be over a lot faster
so it may actually balance out in my favor to risk the four-case.

Early on I did run it where there was a reco penalty based on axiom
differences but it slowed things down slightly, the players didn't
care for it, and it was really difficult assessing the penalty on
Social axiom contradictions in the Living Land.
Kansas Jim (jogle@aoc.nrao.edu)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: Robert Link <link@lcopt.physics.fsu.edu.physics.fsu.edu>
Subject: Re:  super skill grumbles
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Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 04:17:08 GMT


	
		Yes, you are reading it correctly.  Just be glad his super-skill
	isn't fire combat.  Our Nile Gunslinger has super-skill:FireCombat. 
	He's @#$%ing deadly with it.  He defaults to doing Vital blows, just for
	the damage up, and still hits all the time.  Fortunately, our 
	Tharkhold Munchkin/LAPD-er hadn't thought of it. 
	
  Super-skill Fire combat may be pretty annoying, but for my money, 
Intimidation would be the worse of the two.  After all, the Torg system
doesn't care how much you hit by, and after a certain point, further 
increases in the skill generating the action value are of dubious benefit.
After you rack up a FC skill of about 20 or so, most enemies can't dodge, 
and a good many can't dodge even with vital blow penalties (especially if 
you're using the trademark weapon rules).  Intimidation, on the other hand, 
at arbitrarily high values can produce consistent "player's call" results, 
and we all know what that means.  Even a consistent "break" result can give
the players an undue advantage.
  Oh, and Heaven forbid the player took reality for his Super Skill instead.
The Torg modules seem rather fond of minor villians with low reality skill
and 4-5 possibilities (which will all too rapidly find their way onto the
player's character sheet, purchasing him--on average--a point or two extra
Reality).
  In short, the problem with Super-skill is that no villian made to
withstand a hero's super-skill can be anything but overwhelming to the
rest of the players.  It simply isn't balanced. . .

	
-rpl

Internet:		link@lcopt.physics.fsu.edu
Snail-net:	        PO Box 61519
			Tally, FL 

"Figures don't lie, but liars DO figure. . ."


Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: Rick Jones <albert@crick.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu>
Subject: Re: GenCon Report (Incredibly long, thousands of spoilers)
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Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 18:08:38 GMT

>  Hmm. What about miniatures themselves? 

	There's a set of figs put out by Lance and Laser.  I haven't 
ever seen 'em, but they do exist.  
	There's a set for some of the High Lords, a Ravagon set, and
a gospog set.  They REALLY should make more.  I mean, how often do 
characters meet the Gaunt Man?

	Shadowrun figures work okay for most genres, and I have an
old set of Steve Jackson Cardboard Super-heros and normals that 
do when I get up the energy to use figures.


-- 
Rick Jones				Systems Support Center
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Newsgroups: alt.games.torg