HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tanchoco@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Joe Tanchoco)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.filipino
Subject: Laurence Godfrey
Date: 27 Sep 92 14:52:33 GMT
Article-I.D.: noose.1992Sep27.145233.17308
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

Please note that I have changed the subject title since this
discussion is no longer about the LLWS.

In article <27SEP199206034194@sscvx1.ssc.gov> godfrey@sscvx1.ssc.gov (LAURENCE GODFREY) writes:
>>godfrey@sscvx1.ssc.gov (LAURENCE GODFREY) writes:
>>>I wasn't, I was simply stating a fact - nothing more, nothing less.
>>>--- some stuff deleted
>>>... Secondly, there is
>>>nothing wrong in extrapolating from a sample of people to a population as
>>>a whole - in physics and science as a whole this is a perfectly valid
>>>statistical process.  A generalisation is not automatically invalid by
>>>virtue of the fact that it is a gerneralisation, it is only invalid
>>>if the sampling is flawed. 
>>>---some stuff deleted
>>>Thirdly, and lastly, I was not, in this instance, making a
>>>generalisation in any case.
>>>
>>   Inductive proof requires more rigor and conclusions based on
>>   sampled data are usually stated with a statistical qualification.
>>   You have done neither of these.  
>> 
>>   As to whether you are making a generalization or not ... I still
>>   contend that you are.
>> 
>>   By the way, are you originally from the United Kingdom?
>> 
>
>Yes I am from the UK, ....

   My limited association with UK PhDs leads me to conclude that
   most are snooty and racist.  What is your reaction to this 
   generalization and stereotyping statement?

>... and my knowledge of stats is not quite as limited
>as you suppose, since I have a PhD in nuclear physics and have been
>teaching physics and maths for about 12 yrs since finishing my degrees.
>I wasn't trying to make a quantitative statistical analysis of the 
>Philippines, i was simply trying to make a point about generalisations.
>
   You raised the issue of statistics, I didn't.  I'm not a
   scientist so your knowledge of statistics may be far superior
   to mine.  But this generalization from "a part to the whole",
   as George (?) stated, and its sterotyping effect on Filipinos
   is what I was opposed to from the very beginning.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.filipino
From: tanchoco@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Joe Tanchoco)
Subject: Re: World Series Smoking Gun?
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 03:19:34 GMT

>>godfrey@sscvx1.ssc.gov (LAURENCE GODFREY) writes:
>>>but I have to say in all honesty that I have never encountered
>>>such high densities of dishonesty and agressive crookedness as when I have
>>>visited the Philippines.  I say that from the perspective of one who has
>>>visited and lived in many countries, and travelled a great deal in Asia.
>>>
tanchoco@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (J Tanchoco writes...
>>   Your statement above is the kind of generalization that often
>>   leads to stereotyping.  I would suggest that you be more concrete
>>   on this claim.  
>
godfrey@sscvx1.ssc.gov (LAURENCE GODFREY) writes:
>Sure.  Every taxi driver, every person in the vicinity of Ermita, most
>lower priced stores, every time I bought cigarettes, every foreign exchange
>dealer except the banks, most small hotels, every policeman I.  Manila is
>without doubt the most threatening city I have ever visited, and the most
>unpleasant for tourists.  ALmost everyone wants your money (and I don't
>have much of it) and many give the impression that they would do anything
>to get it.  Unlike the rest of Asia, the Filipinos have lost sight of the
>idea that in order to get the tourists' money you've got to let them have
>a good time, they want the money and be damned with the good time.
>
   Now that I know where you're coming from, we really don't have
   much to argue about.  I should point out, however, that there
   are other types of tourists and tourist attractions that abound
   in the Phil and many of these attractions bring out the cultural 
   and historical makeup of the Phil and the Filipino people.  You
   may argue that the Ermita scene is representative but that,
   I believe, is your own personal bias.

   "Every ... Almost everyone... Unlike the rest of Asia, the 
   Filipinos ..."  If you don't call your post above a generalization, 
   then I don't know what is.  
Newsgroups: soc.culture.filipino
From: godfrey@sscvx1.ssc.gov (LAURENCE GODFREY)
Subject: Re: World Series Smoking Gun?
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Organization: Superconducting Super Collider Laboratory
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 12:09:00 GMT

In article <1992Sep27.031934.9274@noose.ecn.purdue.edu>, tanchoco@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Joe Tanc writes...
>>>godfrey@sscvx1.ssc.gov (LAURENCE GODFREY) writes:
>>>>but I have to say in all honesty that I have never encountered
>>>>such high densities of dishonesty and agressive crookedness as when I have
>>>>visited the Philippines.  I say that from the perspective of one who has
>>>>visited and lived in many countries, and travelled a great deal in Asia.
>>>>
>tanchoco@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (J Tanchoco writes...
>>>   Your statement above is the kind of generalization that often
>>>   leads to stereotyping.  I would suggest that you be more concrete
>>>   on this claim.  
>>
>godfrey@sscvx1.ssc.gov (LAURENCE GODFREY) writes:
>>Sure.  Every taxi driver, every person in the vicinity of Ermita, most
>>lower priced stores, every time I bought cigarettes, every foreign exchange
>>dealer except the banks, most small hotels, every policeman I.  Manila is
>>without doubt the most threatening city I have ever visited, and the most
>>unpleasant for tourists.  ALmost everyone wants your money (and I don't
>>have much of it) and many give the impression that they would do anything
>>to get it.  Unlike the rest of Asia, the Filipinos have lost sight of the
>>idea that in order to get the tourists' money you've got to let them have
>>a good time, they want the money and be damned with the good time.
>>
>   Now that I know where you're coming from, we really don't have
>   much to argue about.  I should point out, however, that there
>   are other types of tourists and tourist attractions that abound
>   in the Phil and many of these attractions bring out the cultural 
>   and historical makeup of the Phil and the Filipino people.  You
>   may argue that the Ermita scene is representative but that,
>   I believe, is your own personal bias.
> 
>   "Every ... Almost everyone... Unlike the rest of Asia, the 
>   Filipinos ..."  If you don't call your post above a generalization, 
>   then I don't know what is.  

Let's not be so pedantic - this means every taxi driver I MET, every
policeman I MET etc. etc.  These are simply statements of fact.  I simply
stayed a few days in Ermita on my first visit to Manila, because there
are inexpensive hotels there.  I met my wife on my first trip - she was
a university student working part-time in a hamburger restaurant (far
from Ermita for your information), and I went all over Manila and
surrounding cities with her, looking at the other torist attractions, so
please don't get the wrong idea.

Laurence
From: aimee@wpd.sgi.com (Aimee Manosa)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.filipino
Subject: Re: Little League World Series fiasco
Date: 28 Sep 92 16:09:37 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.

In article <23408@hacgate.SCG.HAC.COM>, dguerrer@lyra.cel.scg.hac.com (Dan Guerrero) writes:

|> You can humor them and say "Sure, all Filipinos are cheaters.  But we had good
|> teachers...the Americans!"

Yeah...but we've had more than enough time to fix this...don't ya think?

-- 
        ~
Aimee Manosa		aimee@wpd.sgi.com
			Silicon Graphics, Inc
From:  ( )
Newsgroups: soc.culture.filipino
Subject: Three Rebels Killed
Date: 28 Sep 92 16:54:51 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.filipino

MANILA, Philippines (UPI) -- Government troops killed three communist
guerrillas in a clash in a remote village south of Manila, police said
Monday.
	Col. Marcelo Navarro, provincial police chief, said a combined force
of police, military, and paramilitary units were on patrol in a village
of Kalayaan town, Laguna province, 37 miles south of Manila Friday, when
they ran into a band of about 30 rebels.
	He said three rebels were killed in a 30-minute firefight. No
government casualties were reported. The Manila forces recovered three
firearms and a hand-held radio from the rebels.
	Gregorio Rosal, spokesman of the unit of the communist New People's
Army or NPA operating in the area, claimed seven other rebels were
wounded in the encounter, including his wife, and were being held
captive by the police.
	In a handwritten note sent by courier to Navarro, Rosal requested
that proper medical treatment be given those injured in the clash.
	Navarro denied the police had wounded rebels in custody but promised
to look for them.
	Kalayaan is a rebel-controlled area where an NPA training camp was
discovered and destroyed by the military three years ago.
	Clashes between the military and the 13,500-strong NPA have continued
despite an agreement between the government and leaders of the movement
to renew talks on ending the 23-year-old communist insurgency.
	A cease-fire is not a precondition to the negotiations, which have
been delayed because of a dispute on where to hold the talks.
	The Manila government has demanded the talks take place in the
Philippines, while rebel leaders want to hold them in a third country.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.filipino
From: millan@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Subject: Re: soc.culture.filipino.LAURENCE_GODFREY
Reply-To: millan@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Organization: Brandeis University
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 01:42:03 GMT

In article <1992Sep27.225714.20818@cc.uow.edu.au>, u9211306@cc.uow.edu.au (Elpidio S Jabonete Jr) writes:
>
>	I think it's time to have a separate newsgroup for this guy.
>  He's too voluminous for this group.
>
>	Flames welcome.
>
>	Pissed off by non-sense discussions ,
>
>	Jun

  Dear Netters,
  
  i agree with jun- the discussions have definitely gone a little overboard.
But i would just like to point out that in any discussion, there will always
be two parties, both of whom contribute their two-cents of good points and
crap. To cast a negative light on one party instead of other, may just
lead to more "non-sense discussions" instead of cutting them out.  
  I personally feel that both parties would have been better off emailing
each other instead of jostling with words to the point of getting personal
(very personal). That goes for the other netters who have been critical
of each other for the sides taken about the LLWS fiasco. Seriously, i 
have not seen name-calling of the sort since i was in grade school.
  These opinions and recommendations are obviously mine and mine alone,
but perhaps it would be a nice change if we respect each other's rights
to expression, and avoid scathing childish responses. On the net at least.
What you right on private email, then, is another matter. 

M I K O

mitchel d. millan
department of chemistry
brandeis university
waltham, ma 02254-9110


Newsgroups: soc.culture.filipino
From: jskirk01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Subject: Re: Honeycoe, CLARK, + explanation
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 02:17:17 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville

In article <Oct05.204814.46527@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU>, 
mk568652@longs.lance.colostate.edu (Mitchell Kotler) writes:
> 
> Let me get something straight here.
>  
> I don't mean offense to Filipinos or their country, 
> I think it's a great place,the scenery, etc.

I'm afraid that it is anything but straight.  Please, friends, forgive the
following ranting, but I cannot let Mitch remain the lone American voice here. 
I am impressed by the restraint Jose Albert shows in his response to Mitch's 
post, but I don't think I have such self-control, frustrated as I am by what 
appears to me to be well-practiced, self-serving rationalization.  Does no 
other American find this post as offensive as I do?  


> Yes, we servicemen "serviced" the local women but anyone,  whether 
> American , British, or Autralian,
> would indulge in the same way (just try to avoid, it's not easy).  

You didn't "service" the local women.  You "serviced" the local prostitutes.
And because of your "indulging," many Filipino women hesitate to be seen with
white men in public for fear of the effect on their reputations.


> They need our money to survive, whether they sell pottery, art, 
> clothing, or women.  

You'll see that they will survive just fine without our money.  Give the
Filipinos some credit.  Don't you have any notion of how well they were
doing economically before the long Marcos fiasco?

If our economy in the US continues in its present trend, how much do you think
your daughter or sister will bring?  When we need money "to survive," will you
approve of your daughter's sale to a Japanese or German tourist?


> But I'm not feeling guilty for having a good time at Clark or Subic.  
           
I know that popular psychology this week says that we must never feel guilty, 
no matter what we've done, but don't you think that guilt is appropriate when 
we've had a "good time" at someone else's expense?  Whose expense?  Please
read Laurence's latest post on the subject.  


> I can't help the fact that there were beautiful women chasing me 

Well, this would be a novel experience for most of us, but I don't 
think it affects the debate.


> I loved and still love the P.I. , . . .

As do I, but let's try to show the Filipinos the same respect we would demand
for ourselves. 

 
> I am sorry but this is a fact of life.: 

Many facts of life need to be changed, not rationalized.

Jim Kirk
Newsgroups: soc.culture.filipino
From: godfrey@sscvx1.ssc.gov (LAURENCE GODFREY)
Subject: Re: This is Great!
Followup-To: soc.culture.filipino
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Organization: Superconducting Super Collider Laboratory
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 19:10:00 GMT

In article <bernardo-250992182406@126.10.4.42>, bernardo@erevax.bitnet (Marcelino Bernard writes...
>Wow!  I just discovered this news group.  I just have to post and say how
>great it feels to hear<read> from all of you.
> 
>Marcelino Bernardo
>bernardo@erevax.bitnet
> 
><I speak only for myself and not my employer.>


Don't you think your employer, Exxon, would be equally thrilled to discover
this news group?

Laurence
From: kordyle1@husc9.harvard.edu (Marek Kordylewski)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.czecho-slovak
Subject: Re: Help With Currency Question???
Date: 27 Sep 92 23:48:03 GMT
Organization: Harvard University

In article <1992Sep22.172147.25090@newssrv.edvz.univie.ac.at> tom@bim.itc.univie.ac.at (Tom Kovar) writes:
>benes@itk.unit.no (Mila Benes) writes:
>:  
>: do not forget the average monthly salary of perhaps 6000 Kcs
>                                                      ^^^^^^^^
>Optimist...
>								Tom

So, what is the average monthly salary in Czecho-Slovakia, and how is
_average_ understood in this context?

-- 

					Marek Kordylewski
					Kordyle1@husc9.Harvard.edu
					Kordyle1@husc9.Bitnet
Newsgroups: soc.culture.czecho-slovak
From: sommar@enea.se (Erland Sommarskog)
Subject: Re: The Split?
Organization: Enea Data AB
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 12:55:45 GMT

Daniel Romanchik (danr@ais.org) writes:
>Here are a couple of items from the SLOVAK-L mailing list.
>Perhaps Czechoslovakia isn't as close to splitting as we thought?
>
>(RFE/RL articles omitted)

It's difficult not to welcome an outcome which seems to lead to
a referendum. Personally, I am positive to a split, as the
political direction of Cechy and Slovakia seems to be highly
incompatible, but splitting a country without a referendum
is too much for me.

Of course, if there is a referendum there has to be some agreement
on how to interpret the outcome. If both republic votes for split
there is no discussion, but if one votes for a split and one vote
against? I suggest that in this case, the split should be carried
out, since if one parts says no to continuing the marriage a divorce
should take place.

The nightmare would be if both republics voted against splitting,
since the top politicians have committed themselves so strongly
for a split. Maybe Meciar would be more discredited than Klaus,
then again they are driven by different motives. Klaus wants to
get rid of Slovakia of pragmatic reasons: Slovakia will be a
hindrance to a radical economic policy. Meciar on the other hand
has more ideological and nationalist motives for his stance, and
may remain in charge to obstruct necessary changes. Also, I would
also be surprised if he would drop the issue completely and say:
"OK, I was wrong, let's continue to run Czechoslovakia as we used
to do." New unilateral moves about stronger autonomy etc seems
likely to be expected.

Then again, the Slovak separatists never wanted a referendum...
-- 
Erland Sommarskog - ENEA Data, Stockholm - sommar@enea.se
There are many sorts of Macedonians: Greek, Bulgarian, Roumanian, Macedonian...
From: HENRY@brownvm.brown.edu ()
Newsgroups: soc.culture.czecho-slovak
Subject: Re: The Split?
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 11:47:09 EDT
Organization: Brown University - Providence, Rhode Island  USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: brownvm.brown.edu
News-Software: BNN via BNN_POST v1.0 beta

 Re a referendum: The parliament passed a referendum law quite some time ago
(when Havel--still as President--urged it). However, the federal parliament
could never agree on the QUESTION to be asked, so there was no referendum
(although more than 2 million people signed a petition).

 A referendum requires a question that can be answered YES or NO. I have not
seen anywhere a single suggestion of what that question is to be. Clearly,
something like "Are you for the split, yes or no?" does not make a meaningful
referendum, no matter what the result, simply because it does not give any
direction about the future form of coexistence (unitary state, narrow
federation, loose federation, "union" of some sort, or nothing). The only
result that would be useful would be for a majority in both states voting for
 a split. But that would hardly make the problems any better (e.g. dividing the
property, etc.)

So, please, will the referendum fans tell us what the Czechs and Slovaks are
supposed to vote on?

Henry Kucera
Newsgroups: soc.culture.czecho-slovak
From: adamek@athena.mit.edu (Petr Adamek)
Subject: Re: Prst ?
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 02:43:46 GMT

Nice Czech word:

	 ctvrtvrstva       (=a quarter of a layer),


misfortunately with one wowel.

Or:

	  proboststky       ...first "s" is 'sz'



Petr
From: 92kmotorka@gw.wmich.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.czecho-slovak
Subject: Thanks for help with KMOTORKA!
Date: 1 Oct 92 19:48:54 EST
Organization: Western Michigan University

Thank you to all who sent information concerning my name.  It was very 
useful and informitive.  I will be getting back to one or two of you
separately, but I wanted to make sure to thank everybody as a whole.

If anyone has any other useful information for me, I would appreciate it, or if
you know any other Kmotorkas in the United States, I would like to know that as
well.

Thanks again!

Chris

Newsgroups: soc.culture.czecho-slovak
From: ljh655 <ljh655@cscgpo.anu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: The Split again ...
X-Xxmessage-Id: <A6F880E5AB043118@24.49.203.150.in-addr.arpa>
X-Xxdate: Wed, 7 Oct 92 17:56:21 GMT
Organization: Australian National University
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d11
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 92 01:56:44 GMT

Thanks for your follow-ups. I did not suggest the
questions for the future referendums, my reflection was of
a "what if" type. However, I agree with Henry that there
is not much sense in doing all this after Slovakia has
proclaimed its indepedence and issued the new
constitution... But - probably many people still want to
have their own say after the politicians had theirs... And
this might bring the controversy - what if the people will
vote against what their own representatives already
decided for ?!? As a paralel with the Maastricht treaty
was mentioned, I think - what's really also the sense of
all those referendums - even the Danish are now scratching
their heads: 'Oops, didn't we want to be in it after all ?'
Decisions - that's what life's all about. Once the
decision to split was made we shouldn't waste time
arguing, but we should rather make any effort building up
something new. And as far as I see the decision to divorce
has already been made, hasn't it ?

Lubos
Newsgroups: soc.culture.czecho-slovak,soc.culture.esperanto,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.filipino,soc.culture.french
From: bernd@cc.uow.edu.au (Bernd Wechner)
Subject: Make a friend today, send a postcard to Oz ...
Organization: University Of Wollongong
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 04:33:18 GMT

I just started to stick some old postcards on the wall at home and found
it growing into a very interesting collage, or wallpaper of sorts even. A 
great deal of interest value and a dash of nostalgia for me personally as 
well. Now although I had a fair stack, I was a little surprised at how small 
a postcard is and how large a wall is. 

So, I'd like to invite you to send me a postcard for which I will:

a) be eternally grateful
b) send one back (if desired)
c) invite you around for a cup of tea, a chat and even to stay a few days 
   (if you like ...)

Just think, you'll make your mark on my wall, and my life, and maybe
even make a friend for life. Or then again, maybe just a postcard for
your own wall ;-).

To join the revolution, just mail a postcard to me here:

Bernd Wechner
5 Charles Avenue
Minnamurra 2532
Australia

Remembering to include your own name and address if you like and see
what interesting things you can add to that. 

All the best then, and here's hoping we have some friendly people with
some motivation in the audience tonight ;-).

Ciao,

Bernd.
From: HENRY@brownvm.brown.edu ()
Newsgroups: soc.culture.czecho-slovak
Subject: Re: The Split ?
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 13:54:46 EDT
Organization: Brown University - Providence, Rhode Island  USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: brownvm.brown.edu
News-Software: BNN via BNN_POST v1.0 beta

Please, consider: The Maastrich treaty is a very complex document, yet the
referendum on this treaty (in Denmark and France, so far) had to be based on a
YES/NO question. That is simply necessitated by the fact that millions of
people participate in such a vote. A referendum of this kind is not a town
meeting in a New England village or a Swiss canton. That may be regrettable
 but it is a reality of the modern world.

 If the Czech and Slovaks could agree on an arrangement or a treaty, no matter
how complex, for making a common living arrangement, that could be put to a
referendum. The chances of such an agreement, in my opinion, are about zero,
given the fact that Slovakia has proclaimed sovereignty and now has its own
constitution. So, the lesson would seem to be an old one: One cannot do
something unilaterally and expect that it will have no consequences.

Two or even more successive referenda on general questions make no sense to me,
 especially at times of a governmental crisis (the federal government pretends
to govern but does not) and, even more important, at times of urgent economic
reform. Such referenda would only delay what needs to be done and have a null
chance of producing anything positive. And, on the practical side, they would
be very expensive, not only financially but particularly in terms of the
political turmoil and hatreds that they would bring to the surface.

Henry Kucera, Brown University
From: raster@mystix.cs.uoregon.edu (Radek Aster)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.czecho-slovak
Subject: Re: Prst ?
Date: 1 Oct 92 01:05:13 GMT
Article-I.D.: mystix.RASTER.92Sep30170513
Organization: CS Dept, University of Oregon

Kalervo Kontola writes :
>> Is there any others words without vowels ?

How about the old tongue twister "Strc prst skz krk", which means stick your
finger through your throat.

You must be kidding. We Czechs believe in economy of the written word. No
unecessary vowels. Reminds me of a joke.

This Czech guy goes to the eye doctor for an eye exam. The doctor points to
the chart on the far wall and asks the man if he can read the first line on 
the chart. The guy replies: "Read it ? Hell, I know the guy!"

Nazdar,
Radek