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Date:         Wed, 29 Jul 1992 14:20:30 EDT
Reply-To:     Bill McGarry <wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com>
From:         Bill McGarry <wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com>
Subject:      Handicap Digest # 2836
X-To:         LHCAP <l-hcap@VM1.NODAK.EDU>

                             THE HANDICAP DIGEST

                                 Issue # 2836

                          Wednesday, July 29, 1992

Today's Topics:


                                ******

                           Blink Talk Digest # 669

                          Re: nfb bbs censorship??
                 More Thoughts on Organizations of the Blind
                             Re: "blind loyalty"
                                turbo braille
                                turbo braille
                                 Re: spanish
                            Re: braille keyboards
                         Re: consumer organizations
                                 Re: spanish


                                ******


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                              Bill McGarry (Moderator)
                              (203) 337-1518



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Subject: Re: nfb bbs censorship??
From: Carla.Campbell@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Carla Campbell)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/89.0 - BlinkLink, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

Hi and thanks for your thoughts.  I appreciated what you had to say and
that you took the time to say it.  Naturally, I disagree with some of
your points (no, I don't enjoy discent for its own sake, but I do like
rapid-fire exchange of ideas for its use as a brain-stirring device...
;-) )  But you wrote very articulately and gave me food for thought.
That, I can always appreciate.  I've got hungry thoughts.

 JM> The politics of blindness is really no different than any other
 JM> politics.  There are people willing to join a political party
 JM> and "get their hands dirty" trying to express their opinions
 JM> and bring others around to believing what they believe.  Then
 JM> there are those who are waiting for some magical organization
 JM> to come into existence that reflects their beliefs

Then there are those of us who do not believe that the individual is
powerless and pursue our beliefs as individuals.  We still hope, some
day, to find people of a like mind on these issues with whom to pool our
energy, but we do not feel that we should commit ourselves to upholding
a dozen philosophies in which we do not beleive for the sake of
promoting one in which we do.  Think of us as special interest
lobbiests.

I do not hope for the mythical, magical organization made up of people
who think just as I do on every subject.  I merely hope to find, some
day, that one of the organizations has a majority with whom I agree more
than about 15% of the time, or who are willing to accept my input of
energy on only those issues which I feel are important and on the
policies which I feel are correct.  My mind has been changed on many an
issue in the past, as well, when those with whom I disagreed treated me
with respect and *convinced* me of the correctness of their perspective.
I am not unwilling to be shown flaws in my reasoning or, better yet, to
listen to aspects of an issue which I had never considered.  I don't
feel that I want to compromise my basic beleifs, or that I am actually
"wrong" 80% of the time, however.

Meanwhile, I do not remain "politically inactive" any more than do those
special interest lobbiest who write letters to Congresspeople, promote
their causes in public and do their best to empower those around them
whom they do feel represent their interests or who need their support as
individuals.

(more on other matters in next message)
                                                 --Carla

... Read what I mean, not what I write!

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!89.0!Carla.Campbell
Internet: Carla.Campbell@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: More Thoughts on Organizations of the Blind
From: Carla.Campbell@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Carla Campbell)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/89.0 - BlinkLink, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

JM> The NFB is criticized for being "dogmatic" and its members are
JM> criticized for toeing the "party line."  Or, using the same
JM> examples that produce those two descriptions, on could call the
JM> NFB "organized" and its members "disciplined."  I prefer the JM> latter.

Ah, but which *is* it?  And why is being "disciplined" (as opposed to
self-disciplined) so much better than "toeing the party line?"  It is
not the semantics to which I object, but the concept which lies behind
both of those words.

 JM> their disagreements very public and have tried to bring
 JM> pressure from outside the organization to change policy.

I agree with you wholeheartedly that this sort of thing is not only
undemocratic, but unethical and inappropriate-- but I question that it
is *possible*.  Who could bring pressure on an organization which
answers only to its members?  What sort of pressure could be brought
upon those members to make them change their minds on an issue, other
than persuasion?  If they can be persuaded, by words alone,  to change
their minds, why is this bad?

I am uncertain that I, as an individual, would be able or willing to
keep silent about issues on which my opinions and the organization's
policies differed.  While I would certainly not try to bring outside
pressure to bear on the organization to change official policy, I would
equally resent their bringing pressure to bear on me to prevent me from
actively pursuing, (as an individual,) the matter which concerned me,
outside the auspices of the organization.  Much as if I were to join a
political party with which I had one or two exceptional disagreements, I
would not be able or willing to accept their dictating how I act on
those issues.  If they were issues on which I did not care deeply, it
might be otherwise.

For the sake of analogy, let us take abortion-- ought I to join a party
who actively promotes  a view on that matter which I do not hold?  If I
do join, because, otherwise, I enthusiastically support their platform?
What if I wanted to protest on that issue-- as an individual, without
drawing on the resources or the name of my party?  Would it be
inappropriate for me to do so if my views differed from my party's,
presuming I was a party member, not a candidate...?

 JM> topic imaginable.  But the debate stops at the meeting house
 JM> door.  If an organization is to have any clout, especially an
 JM> organization that represents such a numerical minority in
 JM> society, it must be able to speak with one voice.

I agree, again, wholeheartedly in the need for presenting a united front
and a smiling public face.  What I question is where the debate stops:
the meeting house door or the meeting house manager's office door?
Where is this "private" debate carried on and how are the members at
large included in it?
JM> You can tell a lot about a man by the friends--and
 JM> the enemies--he makes.

This is very true.
 JM> I hope you and others with open minds will consider what I've
 JM> said here. The organized blind movement would be stronger with
 JM> your input and your participation.  You won't always get your
 JM> way, but you'll be able to take pride in the positive things
 JM> that get accomplished.

As you say, I remain with an open mind.  I am not in the least averse to
joining an organization whose general philosophy and more than half of
whose specific policies are ones which I feel that I can support.
Joining an organization with which I often disagree (as in at least half
the time) would not seem a terribly productive use of my time (or of the
time of those who would have to listen to me and so obviously disagree
with me on some very basic level.)  Joining such an organization with a
view to changing it would also be distasteful to me, since its
membership obviously *likes it the way it is* and does not wish for
change.  So I am left spending my energy as an individual.  It is not,
perhaps, the most productive use of that energy, but it is the most
productive use I have yet found.  But I haven't stopped looking.

thanks, again, for your thoughtful response to my expressions of
curiosity.
                                                  --Carla

... Read what I mean, not what I write!

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!89.0!Carla.Campbell
Internet: Carla.Campbell@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Re: "blind loyalty"
From: Daveed.Mandell@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Daveed Mandell)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/89.0 - BlinkLink, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

I was disappointed.  Too much "it is said that...".  Not

a good hallmark of investigative journalism.

Much too flimsy.

--Daveed--

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!89.0!Daveed.Mandell
Internet: Daveed.Mandell@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: turbo braille
From: Chuck.Hallenbeck@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Chuck Hallenbeck)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/89.0 - BlinkLink, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 BG> Could you tell me what the price will be for Turbo Braille?
 BG> U.s. funds will be fine I can do the conversion.  Thanks alot.

 BG> Brad

Hi, Brad.
Turbo Braille Version 3 costs new users $295. Call us at 913-843-0351
for more details. Our 800 number may not be reachable from Canada. ...
Chuck.

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!89.0!Chuck.Hallenbeck
Internet: Chuck.Hallenbeck@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: turbo braille
From: Chuck.Hallenbeck@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Chuck Hallenbeck)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/89.0 - BlinkLink, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 KB> Hello Chuck, I did an interesting experiment with Turbobraille
 KB> last night.
 KB> I translated an ASCII file of
 KB> 253358 bytes.
 KB> with version 3 I got just 9.2 lines per   second, but with
 KB> version 2.7 I got a faster rate of 13.4 lines   per second.

Hi, Keith.
That sounds about right. Version 3 has nearly 1100 translation rules
compared to about 550 for version 2.7. Most of the extra rules are for
Grade 3 braille translation, but they are there and must be sifted
through. Also we are now using a "large memory model" instead of a
"small memory model" C program, so function calls and data references
involve more software overhead. Finally, there is a lot more processing
going on. We decided to use some of the incredible speed of version 2.7
and put it to good use. Your figures are correct and that is what I
        would expect to get on an XT system.
I am back now from Washington, and will be in touch with Steve shortly
to get his help with the Q&A Write problem. Don't give up on us. ...
Chuck.

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!89.0!Chuck.Hallenbeck
Internet: Chuck.Hallenbeck@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Re: spanish
From: dashiell@nadc.nadc.navy.mil (Jude DaShiell)

No grade two braille is very different in spanish than it is in
english and this also holds true for other languages as well.
I have had occassion to sample some of the grade 2 foreign braille
and found I couldn't read it as soon as the writer switched into
grade two.
There's a good reason for this too and cryptanalysis would support
this, different languages have different high frequency words and even
letter usages.  The Hawaiian language is a striking example since its
alphabet has only twelve letters and the language is far
heavier into the use of vowels than is english.
One of the problems with our own grade two braille system and by extension
grade three braille system since three is an extension of two is that
cryptanalysts were not on the panel that created the forms of
braille so the most efficient use of contractions wasn't accomplished.
Grade two was claimed by its proponents to save 50% in writing over
grade one braille when in fact its at most 10% to 12% savings.
That's an illustration of just how bad a job was done by B.A.N.A. earlier
this century.  Congress isn't into loosing money so B.A.N.A. has been told
to go back to the drawing board and get it right this time.
Let's hope that cryptanalysts and philologists are on their panel this time
as well as ergonomic specialists who are specialists in time and
motion studies.  Maybe they'll get it right this time but I'll not hold my
breath.

jude <dashiell@nadc.nadc.navy.mil>




------



Subject: Re: braille keyboards
From: dashiell@nadc.nadc.navy.mil (Jude DaShiell)

Yes the Perkins brailler can be ordered with a unimanual keyboard specify
which hand.  Also the Stainsby brailler can be used with one hand since in
its configuration I've been told that the positions of the keys
mirror the positions of the dots in the braille cell on the original model.
Another advantage of the Stainsby over the Perkins is that it can be ordered
interpoint where Perkins cannot.

jude <dashiell@nadc.nadc.navy.mil>




------



Subject: Re: consumer organizations
From: dashiell@nadc.nadc.navy.mil (Jude DaShiell)

I think the first requirement is membership in good standing then
maybe you get a call back.  These consumer organizations are into
hard times financially but that's to be expected when most of your
membership base is unemployed.

jude <dashiell@nadc.nadc.navy.mil>




------



Subject: Re: spanish
From: dashiell@nadc.nadc.navy.mil (Jude DaShiell)

You can't beat the price on Hadley courses either since
they're free to the blind.  You do have to return all books and
tapes but that's only reasonable and though hadley
has two braille magazines in production specifically the
Hadley Focus and Orbit hadley doesn't distribute them
very well.
Hadley isn't where you want to go if you're looking to do courses in higher
Mathematics or very much in computer science but they can get the
job done on more basic stuff and languages provided you don't want to
learn any asian languages.

jude <dashiell@nadc.nadc.navy.mil>




------






                                ******

                  End of Issue # 2836 of the Handicap Digest

                                ******
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU