From: cmcurtin@bluemoon.use.com (Matthew Curtin)
Subject: Re: Fun things to do to RTM (was: Internet worm)
Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024])
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 92 12:47:03 EST

mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539) writes:

> In <R8qkVB7w165w@bluemoon.use.com> cmcurtin@bluemoon.use.com (Matthew Curtin)
> 
> >As much as we'd like for everyone to be a perfect example of what everyone 
> >else should be like, we're going to have to come to grips with the reality 
> >that people will do irresponsible things from time to time. No one is 
> >about to stand up and say that they have never done anything that they 
> >should not have, they've never caused anyone else any grief, etc.
> 
> Quite true.  And when people demonstrate a lack of judgement like
> that, we generally try not to put them in a position to repeat it
> until we've been reassured that they do indeed understand just what
> the problem was.  A lot of people here don't seem to get that even if
> Morris' Worm had worked as intended, RELEASING IT INTO OTHER PEOPLES'
> SYSTEMS WITHOUT PERMISSION is the problem -- not whether it messed up
> and hurt things worse than intended.

But how is he supposed to reassure us that he indeed understands what the 
problem is? Do we give him the opportunity to work with us in making 
computer security, in this case, better, or do we send him off to the 
slammer?

> >Many of the people that have made computing what it is today - the people 
> >that have pushed further and discovered new things - are people who have 
> >"done things they should not have."
> 
> Yes, and various great men throughout the world have broken varoius
> laws at one point or another.  Does this reasoning imply that we
> should do away with courts and prisons because of that?

No; that would be goint to too much of an extreme. Some things that should 
be considered when sentencing these people are: intent, damage done, and 
what kind of person the offender is. Morris was a gifted grad student who, 
in the course of experimenting, did a naughty thing; he should not receive 
the same sort of sentance that Joe Data-diddler would get.

> >To cite just one example, let me remind you of Steve Wozniak. He created 
> >the Apple II computer, which gave birth to the "computer revolution", 
> >bringing computers to everyone. The Apple II was the first "open system," 
> >a term which we hear a lot about nowadays. I doubt that anyone would argue 
> >that Woz was crucial in helping make the computer industry what it is 
> >today. Yet, in getting experience which no doubt helped him create the 
> >Apple II, he had a friend help him to sneak into the Sylvania company to 
> >use thier timesharing computer. He built blue boxes and sold them from 
> >door to door in college. These are bad things - he stole time from 
> >Sylvania's computer, he stole - and helped others to steal - the services 
> >of ma bell.
> 
> >If Woz had been caught, and intolerant utopians had put him away, never to 
> >think another electronic thought, we would be years behind our current 
> >technology. You would be sitting in your office playing with your brand 
> >new CoCo right now.
> 
> Gee, I don't recall anyone saying we should shoot Morris.  Did I miss
> something? 

Last time I checked, "putting someone away" didn't imply shooting him...

> >Instead of angrily trying to get revenge on those who have created 
> >headaches and frustrations to us, it would seem to be in everyone's best 
> >interest to learn from those who have something to teach us.
> 
> Yes, it would be in everyone's best interest.  The first thing for you
> to learn is that people can disagree with you without necessarily
> having all these 'evil' motives that you want to attribute to them and
> then chastise them for having.  I'm not particularly angry, nor am I
> interested in 'revenge'.  Two mistakes in a single sentence would seem
> to invalidate your entire premise.

I'm not attempting to attribute evil motives to anyone who disagrees with 
my point of view (the net would be pretty darn boring if everyone agreed:)
What I'm saying is that there are people out there who want to keep Morris 
from ever touching a computer again, and that that wouldn't do anyone any 
good. My point is that a great number of people want to react too quickly, 
without considering the reprocussions of the action they propose, and 
would do damage without realizing it.


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