HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
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Date:         Thu, 7 Jan 1993 19:31:18 CST
From:         Irvin Peckham <peckham@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>
Subject:      Re: daedalus

Bill,
thanks for that.
I have ordered a demo.  I needed to know that I could rewrite
invention sequences, etc., to make them specific to the genre
we're working in.
Irv
--
Irvin Peckham
University of Nebraska at Omaha
peckham@unomaha.edu
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Date:         Thu, 7 Jan 1993 06:30:00 EDT
From:         "Composition Digest (Robert Royar,
              Moderator)" <R0MILL01@ULKYVX.BITNET>
Subject:      (Fwd: *C&CD*) What I was NOT complaining about/ (Required
              Courses) (18)

Entry: 18
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1993 04:27:50 EST
From: IN%"RobertRoyar@Delphi.COM" Robert Royar, (C&CD Moderator)
Message-id: <1993Jan07.042750.v7.061.1.Grendel.Lair@Cratylus>
Subject: What I was NOT complaining about/ (Required Courses) (18)
Reply-to: "Computers & Composition Digest (R. Royar)" <R0MILL01@ULKYVX.BITNET>
Organization: Cratylus Educational Software

In message <199301070337.AA01173@abel.bethel.edu> Gallus wrote
[Text of required course diiscussion quotation omitted]
>From: Gallus <galbri@abel.bethel.edu>
>Subject: RE: (Fwd: *C&CD*) Do colleges require only first-year writing? (8)

>What are you complaining about?  I have to take approximately 60 credit
>hours of so-called core curriculim.  I am not complaining when I say this,
>as I realize that by

Honestly, I wasn't complaining.

In my original post I was responding to a comment that First-year English
(FE) was the only required course that students in college must take--all
other core requirements being essentially selectable electives. My own
college experience in the mid 70s was quite different from this as I was
required to take a number of specific courses. And where I teach we require
a number of sprecific courses (including intermediate writing courses) in
which the student has either no choice or the choice is a very narrow range
of courses which each must be equivalent in terms of the total amount of
work and the types of assignments given.

 -- Robert Royar (RobertRoyar@Delphi.com) New York Institute of Technology
    "#include "Snappy.Disclaimer.And.Quotation""
                                                    - DCL-F-FILENOTFOUND

------------------------------
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Date:         Thu, 7 Jan 1993 11:11:00 CDT
From:         Amanda Corcoran <YKFAC@TTACS.BITNET>
Subject:      RE: daedalus

Irv,
I don't know about Writer's Helper, but instructors can quite
easily customize both invention heuristics and revision guides in
Daedalus by using DAEDALUS MAIL for both or just the invention
part, and by using DAEDALUS RESPOND to make your own question
series.

You're right; the Daedalus included heuristics are a little
overwhelming for many student writers and a little too generic
for really useful application to many writings.  The customizing
capabilities, however, allow the instructor more flexibility in
the classroom with these applications than is often first
apparent.

Hope this helps clarify a little.

Amanda Inskip Corcoran--Texas Tech
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Date:         Tue, 5 Jan 1993 10:59:30 CST
From:         "Patty Ericsson" <PATTY@SDNET.BITNET>
Subject:      WIOLE

Would one of you update me on WIOLE.  I just skimmed hundreds of messages
and missed the meaning.  Thanks!

Patty
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Date:         Wed, 6 Jan 1993 15:19:00 EST
From:         "Rhoda Carroll, Vermont College,
              Montpelier" <RHODA%MUNIN%HUGIN@NORWICH.BITNET>
Subject:      RE: cites of "silenced" women and minorities in trad. classes

Irv, Bernice Sandler did the groundbreaking (I almost said *seminal*) study
of observed and measurable behavior differentials among males and females
in academe:

        Sandler, Bernice. THE CAMPUS CLIMATE REVISITED: A CHILLY ONE
                FOR WOMEN, FACULTY, ADMINISTRATORS, and GRADUATE
                STUDENTS.  Project on the Status and Education of Women,
                Association of American Colleges. 1986.

And by the way, Irv -- you never explained how you avoid "putting grades"
all semester yet manage to "put a grade" on the registrar's printout.....


Come on, fess up.

Rhoda
Rhoda Carroll*Vermont College of Norwich University*Rhoda@Norwich.Bitnet
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Date:         Mon, 4 Jan 1993 16:30:05 EST
Comments:     Warning -- original Sender: tag was mmcooper@WALKER2.HU.MTU.EDU
From:         mmcooper@MTU.EDU
Subject:      Standardizing Composition Classes

Sharon says, "we know how to teach writing, and we'll do it on
the same basis that all the rest of you guys do, by offering the best damn
writing courses around that students will enjoy and profit from and will
rush to take. "  I've always thought this would be the ideal way to offer
writing classes -- as my colleague Diana George says, I want students in my
writing classes who want to learn how to write.  And I don't think students
who don't want to learn how to write can be forced to learn by being
required to take first-year writing (although when they are required to
some of them discover, with a lot of work on the part of their teachers,
that they do want to, which is just to say that they need good advising and
perhaps a more enticing notion of what learning to write entails).  Yes,
abolishing the requirement for first-year writing would be a good idea in a
lot of ways, as many others have pointed out.  (I'm not quite sure how it
resolves the problem of bad [current-traditional, drill and usage oriented]
courses, though, given that the people who do teach these would probably
still think they were good courses and many students think is just what
they themselves need.)

I used to argue that we should get rid of first-year writing courses
because they give the impression that one can be taught/learn everything
one needs to know about writing in two terms and because they seem to
result in a completely acontextual writing situation, where the only
purpose of writing is to learn to write.  But now I think that what we need
is a more comprehensive program for enabling students to learn to write
throughout their college (and grade school and high school and
postgraduate) careers.  We need not only writing courses at several levels
-- good ones, taught by people who like to write and who like to teach it
-- but also good writing-across-the curriculum programs, where faculty in
other disciplines also pay attention to real writing concerns (that's
anything beyond mechanics) and teach other genres of writing, and good
writing centers, where students can get specialized and personalized
instruction, and extensive use of electronic writing in and outside of
classes, where teachers and students interact about ideas and concerns in
less formal kinds of writing. (I used e-mail with my two sections of
first-year writing last quarter and it almost killed me but I found it very
useful in coming to know their concerns and ideas better.)  If we were to
think about all of these things together, and really think about all the
kinds of things people need to do in order to become good writers and
thinkers, we might not get so hung up in such (forgive me) parochial
questions as, What To Do with the FY Writing Class.


Marilyn Cooper
mmcooper@mtu.edu
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Date:         Wed, 6 Jan 1993 20:51:29 EST
From:         Roni Keane <VKEANE@CCVM.SUNYSB.EDU>
Subject:      Re: (Fwd: *C&CD*) Do colleges require only first-year writing? (8)

Rob,

At Stony Brook we have only one university-wide required course, EGC 101.We
do have core requirements but students have a choice of courses to fulfill
these requirements. --Roni Keane
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Date:         Wed, 6 Jan 1993 18:47:32 CST
From:         Irvin Peckham <peckham@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>
Subject:      Irv's not grading

Can whoever I sent my explanation of how i avoid putting
grades on essays but still put grades on transcripts bounce
that back to me?  I would write it out again--but I'm
pressed at the moment and a few people have been asking
for it.  I'm hesitant to display my sneaky little strategies,
but I guess I would like to try them out on others.
Irv
--
Irvin Peckham
University of Nebraska at Omaha
peckham@unomaha.edu
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Date:         Wed, 6 Jan 1993 08:35:06 -0500
From:         "I only look tired." <JSALING@RCNVMS.RCN.MASS.EDU>
Subject:      TA acculturation

I'm responding to an old topic (Dec 30 was the date of David's message I
just read), but after I got back from my break (four days--big deal) our
VAX was screwed up.  It let me read about one message a day and then
kicked me off the system.  This morning things seem better, I've already
read eight messages and responded to two.  But who can predict?

Anyway, when I was at Marshall, the new TA's took a class in which they
were required to visit several comp classes and then write a report
on their observations.  Since the TAs also worked for me in the writing
center, They found it easy to ask if they could visit my class, so I had
probably more than my share of observers.  Two things about the experience
stand out in my memory.  One is that talking to the TAs about what they
observed was very valuable to me as a teacher.  It was good feedback and
gacve me new perspectives on what I was doing in the classroom.

The other thing that stands out is that several of the TAs made it a point
to get to the class early and spend the five or ten minutes before class
started talking to the students as they arrived about what the class was
like and what kinds of things happened.  Those who took the time to talk
with the students all told me it helped them understand better what they
were seeing, and I always found their feedback much more insightful and
useful than that from the ta's who came in cold.

joe s
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Date:         Wed, 6 Jan 1993 23:20:06 EST
From:         "David Tillyer, CCNY" <DATCC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: daedalus
              6 Jan 1993 18:25:25 CST from <peckham@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>

Irv.  You mentioned Clinton working his magic.  I understand the
tongue-in-cheekedness of this remark.  However, I would be interested
in how many of us seriously see any magic that even the most education-
minded president could work.  What do other people think?  I really "Don't
stop thinking about tomorrow." but, are "Happy days" really "here again?"
David Tillyer, who works his magic at CCNY
DATCC@CUNYVM
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Date:         Thu, 7 Jan 1993 19:32:56 CST
From:         Irvin Peckham <peckham@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>
Subject:      RE: daedalus

Amanda:
Clarification of rewriting daedalus.
It did help.  Thanks.
Irv
--
Irvin Peckham
University of Nebraska at Omaha
peckham@unomaha.edu
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Date:         Tue, 5 Jan 1993 10:47:00 CST
From:         "brown, lady" <ykflb@TTACS1.TTU.EDU>
Subject:      RE: More Info on Forum

Bob, where is Forum located?  To explain my question, I am
interested in trying Forum in a non-computer classroom for a
literature class.  Would I have the only copy?  Would students
have copies on their own disks?  Would I need a networked
classroom to make Forum work?  At the Advanced Technological
Learning Center at the library, students have access to Mac SEs
(I believe that's what they have over there).  Or would the
students need to use Forum in our networked classroom in the
English building?  I can't teach the literature class in the Mac
Classroom because we have only 19 computers and the class size is
35-37.  Even so, I want to introduce some of the techniques I use
in my computer classes to these students.  One idea is to ask
Fred to set up a class for me and students can go by at their
convenience and log onto Interchange.  A problem this coming
semester is that the Mac Classroom is already heavily scheduled
with computer/composition classes.  Hmmm.  I plan to figure
something out.  Do you think I could use Forum in my situation?
Lady Falls Brown

By the way, I didn't use e-mail because I can't get non-bitnet
addresses to work.  Sorry, everybody else.
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Date:         Thu, 7 Jan 1993 12:33:12 +0000
From:         rmcdonell%ucsd.edu@SDSC.BITNET
Subject:      Re: (Fwd: *C&CD*) Do colleges require only first-year writing? (8)

>>
>>   One may
>> >argue that students who attend the ivies are better prepared (and of course
>> >they are) than the generally working class students--the ones who go to
>> >the cheaper schools, but I wonder if another social imperative is at
>> >work here?
>> >Irv
>>
>> "Better prepared for whose what?" might be another way to ask the question
>> and open the issue of the "social imperative" to the question of "Whose?"
>> as well.
>>
>> robt
>>
>> rmcdonell@ucsd.edu
>>
>Robert:
>Actually, I can't really remember what I was writing about.  I think
>they are better prepared for assuming open-ended social role--they
>define their own projects, purposes, rewards, etc.--they are better
>prepared to assume positions that most of us find more rewarding than
>those positions in which roles and rewards are defined for us.  The
>social imperative might be that those of us who have made our way into
>these positions have a deep interested in reserving those kinds of
>positions (which are, after all, more fun that the others) for our
>children--the ones who go to these elite schools.
>Irv
>How is ucsd these days?  Let's meet at CCCC.
>--
>Irvin Peckham
>University of Nebraska at Omaha
>peckham@unomaha.edu

Irvin,

I see what you're saying, and it is true, but I think, given that accession
to such open-ended postions, to one degree or another, requires submission
to that social imperative(call it hegemony, dominant ideology, whatever)
and its reproduction, that it is difficult (I hope) to be "happy" unless
one is attempting to (radically) transform/subvert the hegemonic order.

UCSD  has the virtue of being situated very close to the Pacific Ocean
(that vast expanse of blueland that has befuddled the most assiduous of
sub-dividers).  What more can one say re: an institution that consistently
ranks among the top five grant-grubbers in the nation--the majority of them
war department related.
rmcdonell@ucsd.edu
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Date:         Mon, 4 Jan 1993 19:19:20 CST
From:         Irvin Peckham <peckham@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>
Subject:      cites of "silenced" women and minorities in trad. classes

I am writing a proposal in a rush and I need some citations/
documentations that women and/or minorities speak out less in
the traditional lecture/socratic dialogue oriented classroom.
The leftovers, of course, are the Caucasian males who monopolize
the conversation.  I have heard plenty of anecdotal evidence,
but I could use more empirically based citations.  I would
appreciate any quick help on this.  I will of course pretend
to have read all recommended studies.
Irv
--
Irvin Peckham
University of Nebraska at Omaha
peckham@unomaha.edu
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Date:         Mon, 4 Jan 1993 19:13:35 -0700
From:         Karen Schwalm <SCHWALM@GC.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: cites of "silenced" women and minorities in trad. classes

An important piece about the participation of women in the classroom is

Hall, R.M.  (1982).  The Classroom Climate: A Chilly One for Women?  Report
of the Project on the Status and Education of Women.  Washington:
Association of American Colleges.

[While this report is ten years old, I believe a supplementary report was
issued last year that noted little change.  This report focuses on post-
secondary education; most other research concentrates on the elementary
school classroom.]


In relation to women and science, see

Tobias, S.  (1990).  They're not dumb, they're different.  Change, 22(4),
11-30.


--Karen T. Schwalm              Department of English
--Glendale Community College    Maricopa Community College District
--6000 West Olive Avenue        Voice: (602) 435-3651  Bitnet: schwalm@gc
--Glendale, Arizona  85302      Internet: schwalm@gc.maricopa.edu
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Date:         Fri, 8 Jan 1993 08:58:09 -0600
From:         RONRON@USU.BITNET
Subject:      Re: (Fwd: *C&CD*) RE: RE: But what can we isolated YouEssers do?
              (3)

Liz Hamp-Lyons -- forgive me for replying through the net but I can't get
your address to work directly.  The concept that language is totally a
social construct springs out of philisophical investigarions which deny
that anything can be constituted as other than a selfconsistent system.
The system need not agree with other systems, only with itself.  Thus
we effectively cut off discussion of how one system might interact with
another, especially if it suits our agenda to do so.  However, language
is a catetory of biological function and as such has charecteristics
and behavioral consequences that are independent of any social construct.
I don't buy your assertion that power relationships are purely social.
How did we get this far afield?

Ron Shook
"This is the secret of life: after dinner, wash the bowls."
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Date:         Fri, 8 Jan 1993 10:26:57 CST
From:         "Michael S. Hart" <HART@VMD.CSO.UIUC.EDU>
Subject:      msh 1 FTP Instructions

This is a one page suggestion of how to give instructions for ftp:
(Might also work for telnet and other programs)

Instead of saying ftp to so.n.so for file /dir/subdir/subdir/filename.ext
I would suggest writing the instructions exactly as they appear onscreen,
perhaps including the feedback from the other end, perhaps not.

The reason is that the instructee may then be able to exactly copy lines
from your instructions to the command line, rather than typing them over
again (with attendant errors or loss of time) or having to cut and paste
repeatedly. . .such as cutting the line: get /dir/subdir/subdir/filename
once to make the cd line and once to make the get line (while having the
requirement of typing cd and get before pasting each line).


Example:

ftp so.n.so
login anonymous
password yourname@yournode
cd /dir/subdir/subdir
bin (if necessary)
prompt (if necessary)
get filename.ext
or
mget filenam*
quit

Happy New Year!

=====================================================

Thank you for your interest,

Michael S. Hart, Professor of Electronic Text
Executive Director of Project Gutenberg Etext
Illinois Benedictine College, Lisle, IL 60532
No official connection to U of Illinois--UIUC
hart @uiucvmd.bitnet or hart@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu
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Date:         Wed, 6 Jan 1993 22:06:20 -0700
From:         "David E. Schwalm" <IACDES@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: daedalus

Oh Happy Days! Down here in the booming SW, we are looking at a mid-year
"revertment" of 2-3% of our budget, not to make up for revenue shortfalls but
to pay for higher than anticipated cost in healthcare, prisons, etc. And then
we're looking at 2-4% budget reduction for next year because our land
developer governor wants to institute a symbolic tax cut. Budget cuts tend to
be larger than they seem since we are then unable to accommodate as many
students, collect less tuition, and so on. I would like to see what Clinton
can do with the likes of J. Fife Symington.

-- David E. Schwalm, Assoc. Provost for Academic Programs
___Arizona State University West
___4701 West Thunderbird Rd.
___Phoenix, AZ 85069-7100___(602) 543-4500
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Date:         Mon, 4 Jan 1993 09:44:45 -0500
From:         "(Raul A. Huerta)" <kendo@UC1.UCSU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: WIOLE

Dear Eric,

I would appreciate it if you would forward a copy of the "Online Writing
Center" proposal.

Su segundo servidor,

Raul Huerta
Director
Frank E. Gannett Memorial Library
Utica College of Syracuse University
1600 Burrstone Road
Utica, NY 13502
315-792-3041 (voice)
315-792-3361 (fax)
kendo@uc1.ucsu.edu
******************************************
If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he
hears a different drummer.  Let him step to the music which he hears,
however measured or far away.  It is not important that he should mature
as soon as an apple tree or an oak.  Should he turn his spring into summer?
 H.D. Thoreau
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Date:         Sat, 9 Jan 1993 10:32:08 CST
From:         Irvin Peckham <peckham@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>
Subject:      RE: not grading essay/ but satisfying the registrar
              Montpelier" at Jan 7, 93 10:48 pm

Rhoda:
Please send me a copy of PARTICIPATION.  I'm interested.
I'm going to forward the first description of the non
grading statment that I have since had rebounced to me.
Mostly the same stuff, but I think i included a couple of
different perspectives.
irv
--
Irvin Peckham
University of Nebraska at Omaha
peckham@unomaha.edu
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Date:         Thu, 7 Jan 1993 22:48:00 EST
From:         "Rhoda Carroll, Vermont College,
              Montpelier" <RHODA%MUNIN%HUGIN@NORWICH.BITNET>
Subject:      RE: not grading essay/ but satisfying the registrar

Thanks, Irv. Interesting!  We work so much the same way, but
I've always put a grade on the paper.  Now I'm willing to try
it without.  If anything weird happens, I'll let you know here.

Thanks again, and thanks too to all of you who added such
valuable insights to the high school/college discussion
a while back.  I just wrote a new "WHat Participation Is and
What It Is Not" handout, so if anyone wants it, let me know,
and I'll be glad to send it by way of a more substantial thank you.

Here's to a great semester!

Rhoda Carroll*Vermont College of Norwich University*Rhoda@Norwich.Bitnet
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Date:         Mon, 4 Jan 1993 08:34:39 CST
From:         Irvin Peckham <peckham@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>
Subject:      Re: our teachers, our students
              93 8:53 pm

Liz:
I'll hope for better luck here.  I have a dean who is
easy to talk to, will support anything that doesn't
cost money, and a couple of things that do.  I also have
a good working relationship with quite a few of the lit
people--as well as some outstanding grad students and
adjunts.  Not bad for starters.  I of course recognize,
however, how easy it is to sink time into WPAing when
one should be writing.
Irv
--
Irvin Peckham
University of Nebraska at Omaha
peckham@unomaha.edu
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