From: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Subject: Re: Israeli Expulsion of 418 Palestinians
Reply-To: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe AZ
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 05:40:59 GMT

In article <EGGERTJ.92Dec21225433@moses.atc.ll.mit.edu> eggertj@atc.ll.mit.edu writes:

# In article <1992Dec22.002443.18839@ennews.eas.asu.edu> makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky) writes:

# >   In article <EGGERTJ.92Dec18160400@moses.atc.ll.mit.edu> eggertj@atc.ll.mit.edu writes:

# >   # What do you think happened?  Were the deportees convicted of any
# >   # crime?  No.  Thus under the presumption of innocence until proven
# >   # guilt, the Israelis just committed a mass deportation of innocent
# >   # civilians.

# >	   They commited a deportation of HAMAS members.  They openly admit
# >   that.  They are actually deserving of death.  This is just another
# >   case of the weak and wimpy way Israel treats terrorists.  Because they
# >   did not execute them, some will commit acts of terrorism resulting in
# >   loss of life.
 
# Were the deportees convicted of terrorism?  No.  Were the deportees
# proven in a court of law to be members of an outlaw group?  No.
# Indeed, according to independent reports, many if not most of the
# deportees were _not_ members of Hamas at all.  They may have spoken
# out in favor of Hamas, but were not members.  It is doubtful that many
# if any of the deportees were Hamas guerillas.

	They were all admited members of HAMAS.  There is a war going on
if you did not know it.  HAMS has declared this war against Israel.
Their presence is a physical threat to both Jews and Arabs.  Your "due
process" talk is nonsense when put up against this situation.
 
# You cannot execute or deport an entire population because of a fear
# that some of them may eventually become criminals.

	They did not deport an entire population.  They deported 400
members of a criminal organization.  They are criminals.

# >   # I wonder how many atrocities have been committed in the name of
# >   # "security"?  Certainly the Holocaust numbers among them.  The
# >   # invasion of Poland is another.

# >	   You are being ridiculous here.  By following your theory to its
# >   logical conclusion, governments should do nothing in the name of
# >   security.  Well, that will have all of the effect (actually quite
# >   less) of a morality Maginot line.

# By hyperbole you can prove anything.  We are both guilty of that at
# times, I admit.
 
	Does that mean you retract your statement?

# >   # The problem here is that it is clear that Israel doesn't know what is
# >   # going on.  Mass deportations is a response out of proportion to the
# >   # crime.  Guilt by association is assumed.  So the ideas is if you round
# >   # up enough of the suspicious characters and send them all packing, no
# >   # more crimes will be committed?  Whoever has that idea is the one that
# >   # should be committed.

# >	   Don't be an idiot.  No one is claiming that all of them
# >   participated in the murder.  They do, however, belong and acknowledge
# >   support for the organization that is proud to have the murderers as
# >   members.

# By that argument, any Likud member should be deported from Israel
# immediately.  Schamir was, after all, a terrorist as well.  Guilt
# by association is a tool of totalitarianism, not one of justice.

	Shamir (if he was a terrorist, and I am not arguing either way
here) was not currently a terrorist, and he was not a member of Likud
when he committed those actions.  Your analogy does not hold.
--
	There are three types of people in the world.  Those that are good
at math and those that are not.

makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu