HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: u_nique@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Jerray Wei)
Subject: Re: La Lakers
Organization: HAC - Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 22:26:27 GMT

In article <1992Dec23.205047.12407@ll.mit.edu> nates@ll.mit.edu ( Nate Smith) writes:
>In article <1992Dec23.152357.28826@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu> u_nique@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Jerray Wei) writes:
>
>you dont get it do you?  when low post players have the defense collapse
>on them, they kick it back out to the passer (Magic or Pippen or Jordan
>above), and the passer quickly feeds the bombadier (Scott or Paxson) for
>a wide open jumper.  when the low post threats deteriorate (as in the
>Celtics case) or the passer drops a notch in court recognition (as in
>the Lakers), the outside shot isnt that open anymore.  actually in
>Grant's case its more like that he gets an Offensive rebound and kicks
>it out to pippen or michael and then they find paxson all alone.

Sure I get that, but if you watch the game, just how often does it happen?
With the old Lakers, with Kareem being such a force, it did, but that was
kind of before Byron Scott's time (and then he was still a 1 on 1 force).
And then again, both Worthy and Kareem using shot the darn ball everytime
they got it.  Magic looked a lot more to pass.

As for the Bulls...when was the last time you saw Bill Cartwright (ie.
their so called low post threat) get the ball much less doubled?  Grant
hardly ever gets the ball in the post (he's barely averaging double figures
now right)?  Every single time that Paxson shot, it was from Jordan or
Pippen flying into the lane (somewhat out of control) and drawing the
whole court full of defenders.  So in the Bulls case, this normal low post
thing never happens.  Heck, they run a triangle, it's not built for that.

Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: prb@chinet.chi.il.us (Paul Botts)
Subject: Re: Culture comes to USENET (was Re: Jordan & Pippen: No Olympics)
Organization: Chinet - Public Access UNIX
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 07:17:49 GMT

In article <1992Dec31.151940.1192@ll.mit.edu> nates@ll.mit.edu ( Nate Smith) writes:
>
>just an opinion here:  the one who should complain about it for Chicago
>is Phil Jackson.  just like yelling at the refs, the coach should step
>up for the players and draw the heat.  or the owner.  it doesnt look
>right coming from MJ & SP.
>

That point had not occured to me until you popinted it out, but I think
you're absolutely right. I'm not sure if it would have made a
difference, but the management should have seen this coming and made
some effort to head it off, more than giving MJ and SP the first week of
training camp off.
Surely it is not coincidence that the besides Pippen and Jordan's
complaints about, essentially, burnout, the other Dream Teamer who was
in the Finals (Clyde) is down and out. It's not just the Olympics,
remember that those three players, of all the Dream Teamers, had played
in the most NBA season+playoffs games over the past three seasons. Over
the course of those three seasons, they had played close to an entire
extra NBA season - that's *got* to get to you sooner or later. It would
be nice if the Bulls and Blazers could have trimmed these guys' minutes
by a few per game to compensate for the fatigue, but hey, they *are*
superstars after all, and the teams are trying to win every game.
Personally, I think if CLyde can get healthy, his break may end up doing
the Blzers some good come May, cause he'll have gotten a chance to
recharge the batteries a bit. I sort of wish MJ and SP would each come
down with some sort of not-too-threatening, mild disease for a couple of
weeks this winter - chicken pox, say - which would force them to spend a
couple of weeks lying around watching the rest of the Bulls go 1-7 or
whatever on the tube. Once they got healthy they might come back
refreshed and fired up, and then I think the Bulls would roar through
the playoffs like they did in '91.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: terry@garfield.Stanford.EDU (Terry Wong)
Subject: Billy Owens update
Keywords: Billy Owens, Warriors
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 93 00:55:58 GMT

Billy Owens is still on IR with torn cartiliage in his knee.  He has
missed 11 games since he last played Dec. 8 against Indiana.  Subsequently,
his knee has been scanned every 5 games and the slight tear has still
not healed.  The Warriors are going to wait another 10 days or so and
scan it again.  If it has not healed at that time, Owens will probably
have surgery, which would knock him out at least another 6 weeks.

Meanwhile, the Warriors have won 9 of 11 since Owens has been out.  
This has fueled trade rumors involving Owens.  The most persistent
rumor that has been circulating for a couple of weeks is that Owens will 
be traded to Indiana.  Supposedly, Indiana
has proposed Owens for Rik Smits, their 7'4" center straight up, while
the Warriors have countered with Owens and Tyrone Hill for Rik Smits
and Detlef Schrempf.  Obviously, both trades are unevenly weighted towards
Indiana and the Warriors, respectively, and are unlikely to happen.
The Warriors would certainly be improved with Smits and Schrempf instead
of Owens and Hill.  Schrempf is one of the best all-around players
in the game today, while Smits has plently of size and skill.
On the other hand, they would be giving up much
younger players (Schrempf is 29, Smits is 26, while Owens is 23 and Hill is
24.), both of whom have not reached their full potentials.  Hill is 
much improved this year and has moved into position as the NBA's 15th
best rebounder based on rpg.  Owens is a potential all-star in a couple of
years, although he had not played consistently well before his injury.

If I were Nelson, I would make this trade if Indiana went for it.
What do others think?  Good trade or bad?

				 terry@garfield.Stanford.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: bertone@anasazi.com (Scott Bertone)
Subject: TEST!!
Organization: Anasazi, Inc.  Phoenix, Arizona USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 05:08:17 GMT
Summary: TEST!! SKIP!! 



This is a test!!!

jsb.



Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: ojt@cs.brown.edu (Oren J. Tversky)
Subject: Re: Players under 6 feet in the NBA
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Brown University
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 21:07:02 GMT

In article <1h57coINNonb@handy.usc.edu> haghighi@handy.usc.edu (Manouchehr Haghighi) writes:

>   Path: brunix!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!usc!not-for-mail
>   From: haghighi@handy.usc.edu (Manouchehr Haghighi)
>   Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
>  Date: 21 Dec 1992 11:54:00 -0800
>  Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 
>  Lines: 15
>   Distribution: na
>   NNTP-Posting-Host: handy.usc.edu
>
>   Muggsy Bogues 5`3
>
>
>   Spud Webb 5`7
>
>
>   Michael Adams 5`10
>
>
>   Dana Barros 5`11
>
>
>   Terrel Brandon 5`11




How about:

*  Keith "Mister" Jennigs (Golden State Warriors) 5'6" currently on IR

*  Greg  Grant  (Philadelphia 76ers) 5'6"

*  Mike  Izullino (Dallas Mavericks) He's listed at around 6'0", but I
   think he's definitely under 6'0"

*  Scotty Brooks (Houston?) 5'10"


It's hard to tell sometimes a lot of point gurads are listed at 6'0"
or 6'1" and are actually shorter.


--
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: lej@pdn.paradyne.com (Leo James)
Subject: Re: Bulls vs. Knicks!
Organization: AT&T Paradyne, Largo, Florida
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 16:34:16 GMT

In article <1hrushINNcjc@shelley.u.washington.edu> tt300zx@milton.u.washington.edu (twin turbo 300zx) writes:
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>In fact, I don't believe there is a Knick team.  Some fancy East Coast magic
>>with a little Pat Riley thrown in, and ... I mean, look at the line-up:
>>
>>Patrick Ewing - the 7 ft disappearing center (chopstick)       (smartass#1)
>>Anthony Mason - the swaggering forward who can't do more than foul hard
>>Charles Oakley - Rebound and miss
>>Greg Anthony - another smartass less-than-steady ball-handler (smartass#2)
>>John Starks - trash-talking flibbertigibbet (smartass#3)
>>Charles Smith - I think he played better with the Clips
>>Doc Rivers - Too old (doc? where in the hell did he get that name? he wants
>		       to be like julius or what? c'mon glenn :)
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>	can not put it any better than this, this is it :) /tt300zx
>

May you spend the rest of your days shining shoes at the corner of
125th and Lexington. 

Without coats!
--
+---------------------+-----------------------+-----------------------+
|Leopold E. James     | "A heart, a soul, AND | AT&T Paradyne         |
|ph: (813) 530-8425   |  a mind are terrible  | P.O. Box 2826, LG-132,|
|lej@pdn.paradyne.com |  things to waste."    | Largo, FL 34649 (USA) |
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: paul@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (Greg Paul)
Subject: Re: Phoenix is absolutely scary...
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe, AZ
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 20:17:03 GMT

In article <1hrudiINNci3@shelley.u.washington.edu> tt300zx@milton.u.washington.edu (twin turbo 300zx) writes:
>>This is a team that looked awesome, and is just now adding Kevin Johnson
>>back into the folds (AllStar level Point Guard, former main man), and
>>Richard Dumas, who scored 27 tonight, and looks very, very good.  This team
>>went from being extremely talented and tough, to that and deep as well.
>>Barkley, Johnson, Majerle, Ainge, Chambers, Dumas, Ceballos, etc...
>
>	no doubt, phenix has 'too much' talents this year.
>	they have all the big-name players such as tommy chamber,
>	KJ, barkeley, ceballos, danny ainge, dan majerle...this is
>	what's gonna kill them this year. i am thinking that they
>	MiGHT not be 'together' enuf mentally to earn an championship.
>	everybody wants to show off, barkeley was traded because he
>	WaNTED to be traded to a 'championship' team, he wants a championship
>	for him and for himself only. he COULD very well be a selfish
>	player, i'm not sure, but sure looks like it. he has overshadowed
>	the S.T.A.R. players in phoenix.
>

   Huh?  If you think everyone on the Suns wants to show off you haven't
been watching the games.  Barkley is playing like the league MVP this
season.  He not only scores and rebounds, but has been very an extremely
effective passer also.  As a team, the Suns are looking far less selfish
than they have in past years, heck even Tom Chambers is making smart 
passes he wouldn't have just a couple years ago.  The single biggest
thing Barkley and Ainge have brought to the team is an attitude where
this team expects to win when they step onto the court.  

   If this is the type of play the Suns are getting from a team where
'everybody wants to show off', we'll take it.

>
>>Can anyone beat them??  The Bulls, no.  The Knicks... No.  The Blazers, yeah
>>right..  The Jazz..  not this year...
>
>	i think the bulls just beat them in october, 1992, right?
>	i could be wrong because i remember that jordan and the company
>	went to phoenix and beat them by about 10 pts, yeah, that's right,
>	it was jordan's first visit to phoenix's newly constructed 'great
>	west arena'. jordan and the bulls killed the phoenix, no doubt.
>	the telecaster even said, "let's wait for the rematch in chicago
>	in march of 93..." yup, we'll see who can beat phoenix. :)
>

   The best thing about Phoenix is that they aren't playing anywhere near
their peak form.  The Houston game the other night with KJ back may have
been the closest they've come so far.  It was the first time KJ's been
effective all season due to his injury. 

   This team should be even better than they are now in another month..


--
================ "Mr. Clinton, tell me more about how sheep's =================
================= bladders may be used to cure the economy." ==================
Greg Paul  (Mouser)		  |  paul@enuxha.eas.asu.edu  GO SPARTANS!!
MSCS student, Insight technician  |     Triangle Fraternity
From: centeno@pasadena-dc.bofa.com (R. CENTENO)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Lakers are in Trouble
Date: 31 Dec 92 08:04:35 PDT
Organization: Bank America Systems Engineering, Pasadena, CA

In article <1992Dec30.211456.11296@microsoft.com>,paulg@microsoft.com (Paul Goode) writes,
|> >Well, it may soon be time for Jerry West to act. The optimism
|> 
|> I'm thiking Vlade, Worthy, and Scott for Hakeem and draft pic(s).  Vlade 
|>

>Gosh, I bet Houston can't wait to make this deal. I mean, how often
>do you get to pick Jerry West's pocket like this, anyway?

How do you figure that would be picking West's Pocket???  First of all Vlade
is the 4th highest salary in the NBA.  Secondly, Worthy's and Scott's salary
are also high (Don't quote me, but I think Worthy is 2+ mil, and Scott is
1+mil).  This would free up a substancial amount of $$$ for them to acquire
more players.  Thirdly, the Lakers would get the Big-Time center they always
wanted.

>One absolutely correct strategic point that Larry Brown makes is
>that you make trades to improve your team; otherwise, you don't
>make them. (Admittedly, Larry could have executed on this better
>with San Antonio.) So I'm the Houston GM. My team is 14-9, and 
>you want me to trade you my franchise player *plus* a bunch of
>draft picks for one possibly interesting player and two has-beens?
>How does this improve my team, either now or in the next few
>seasons? Why do people always think that their excess baggage
>is worth my superstar? Not even Steve Patterson would make this
>trade...

If I remember correctly, Hakeem did not give 100% to the Rockets last season, 
and was in a very big fued with management over wether or not he was injured.
He even claimed "that he would not play for them next year" (actually this 
season).  Therefore you get rid of a problem player, and also improve your
team (hopefully, if i'm the GM). Even if Hakeem left, You still have a few 
very good players (Thorp,Smith).  To add a Worthy (hoping that he will return 
to form...is my gamble if i'm a GM) to the lineup, You add leadership and a 
lot of playoff/championship experience.  Scott becomes the token in the 
picture.  He has talent, but he has to want to play, he is a gamble (A lot of 
GM's do that).  Now, the down side for the Rockets, #1 Lose a great center for 
a possibly interesting one (as you pointedout), #2 Are you still under the 
Salary Cap???  #3 If it turns out to be a bad trade, the GM is probably gone.

>Paul

-Rob
From: hira@cme.nist.gov (Ron Hira)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: The Wizard's minutes?
Date: 29 Dec 92 19:06:53 GMT
Reply-To: hira@cme.nist.gov
Organization: National Institute of Standards and Technology

Anyone out in King land know why the Wizard, Walt Williams, has been 
getting such little PT? I thought that he started out real strong and
got lotsa mins, but lately it seems like he gets under <20. Its not
like the Kings are winning a whole heck of a lot or anything either.

Thanks,
Ron

Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: sridhar@asuvax.eas.asu.edu (Sridhar Venkataraman )
Subject: Re: Phoenix is absolutely scary...
Organization: ASU, Valley of the Sun(s), AZ
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 13:54:10 GMT

davem@uvmark.uucp (Dave Meeks) writes:

)Can anyone beat them?? The Bulls, no.  The Knicks... No.  The Blazers, yeah
)right..  The Jazz..  not this year...

It is interesting that the only defeat at home for the Suns has
come at the hands of the Bulls (right?). 

)It should be obvious, the Suns just have the talent this year...

Hopefully, KJ should be starting against Houston on Wednesday. The
only worry has been the apparent ease with which the Suns (especially
Barkley) have been getting technicals.  Yesterday it was Chambers.

Sridhar.

--
Sridhar Venkataraman			sridhar@asuvax.eas.asu.edu
From: cig@duke.cs.duke.edu (Curry I. Guinn)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Michael Jordan in coma
Date: 22 Dec 92 15:06:13 GMT
Organization: Duke University Computer Science Dept.; Durham, N.C.

>In article <1992Dec21.185348.25740@ll.mit.edu> nates@ll.mit.edu ( Nate Smith) writes:
>
>   boston won that game, so the defense was equal to the task.  they would
>   have won by a lot more, except that jordan was unconscious.  no defense
                                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Hey, the great ones like MJ play through their injuries unlike those wusses
like Mark Price and Danny Manning.
From: tt300zx@milton.u.washington.edu (twin turbo 300zx)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Bulls vs. Knicks!
Date: 31 Dec 1992 08:07:53 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
NNTP-Posting-Host: milton.u.washington.edu

>And let's not forget the 37 point humiliation that the Knicks put on 
>Da Bulls in the Garden... sure Jordan was not at 100% after turning his 
>ankle, but I recall most people agreeing (including devote Bulls fans) 

	37 pts win for the knicks = 12 pts win for the bulls
	------------------------------------------------------
	who cares about the pts? chicago didn't bother to catch
	up and lost the game, big deal. but it was the new york
	knicks who faltered and shattered and lost their lead
	in the x'mas game in chicago.

>long it would take to get all the new faces to play together?  This team 
>has played 25 games together, and is in the class of the NBA elite already! 
>They should only get better as the season progresses.

	not with doc(?) river and greg anthony.
From: kompella@cs.ucsd.edu (Vachaspathi Kompella)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: La Lakers
Date: 23 Dec 92 23:14:43 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: CSE Dept., UC San Diego



In article <1992Dec23.152357.28826@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu>, u_nique@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu
(Jerray Wei) writes:
|>
|> One final note...you mention Horace Grant being a factor for helping Paxson
|> out.  I have watched a hell of a lot of Bulls games...and I don't even
|> remember even an accidental assist from Grant to Paxson.

Oh, but two passes can do it.  And that's what is so awful about Paxson :)
He knows where to stand, and he knows the pass is coming, either a kick out
straight to him, or via someone else.  It's the fear of the inside the paint
game that makes people sag off him.  So watch how many times Horace Grant
tries to shoot EVERY TIME he's in the paint, and watch how many times he
kicks it back out.  How would you attack a double team?  A couple of passes
and the defense is scrambling, esp. if there is the drive threat from MJ
or Scottie.  That's what I mean.  I'm talking about how the defense has to
plan to guard when there are go-to-the-hole people that you have to deny
position.  You can't double team unless you plan to.  Expecting the offensive
player to come conveniently close so that a double team can happen is not
a good strategy :)

Jerray, you are arguing the wrong thing with the wrong person.  I'm not the
one who said that Byron's game was not affected by Magic's departure, or
even the one who was comparing who suffered more, Worthy or Byron.  My point
is that Byron's game is suited to a quick passing team that has a penchant
for strong inside play with reliable people that may have to be double-teamed.
That leaves a reliable outside jump shooter with plenty of time to nail
the shot when the defense converges in the paint.

Oh so Kareem is not a good passer, huh?  What makes a good passer as far
as a center goes?  I don't have the figures, only memories, so I can't
argue this point, but Kareem didn't have to put up Magic's numbers to
be a good passer.  He just had to have the outside threat to passs to to take
some double team pressure off him.  I think he did that much and more.  Maybe
I'm talking through my hat, but that's what it looked like to me.  Again,
remember that an assist isn't my definition of a good passer.  It's knowing
when to throw the pass, and to whom.  Game plans are built on multiple passes.
And when you have a Magic who can pass real well, well, get him the ball,
and he'll deliver.

At this rate, I'm going to have to buy a basketball stat book.  Anyone know
of a good one?  Something with some history in it, maybe?

-Vach

Lakers over Seattle!
Chargers over Seattle!
From: rns@deakin.OZ.AU (Robert Sturrock)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Aussie Beers and Luc Longley
Date: 1 Jan 1993 14:15:13 +1100
Organization: Deakin University
NNTP-Posting-Host: rastaban.cc.deakin.oz.au

Me:

>: ps. no Australian worth his salt would drink Foster's anyway.

Mike Lewis:

>What, pray tell, would an Australian worth his salt drink?  I'm always on the
>lookout for a good beer...

"Victoria Bitter", also made by CUB (the same brewery responsible for
Foster's) could well be considered the "staple ale" for many
Australians (at least down south, where I'm from).  Fosters is mainly
sold to the international market;  I rarely see people drinking it
around here,  It's just too damned sweet for my taste!  Personally, I
like the Cooper's beers (Cooper's Pale Ale, Cooper's Sparkling
Ale...).  They are more naturally brewed, and tend to have a less
"artificial" taste.

There are a great many breweries in Australia.  "Cascade", "Redback",
"Tooheys" (Red, New, Old) are not bad beers.  Stay clear of anything
from up north tho' (like XXXX- a truly aweful beer!).  "Swan" (Swine)
is dishwater also.  Most Aussie beers sit around 5-6% alcohol.  There
has been a big shift in recent years towards "light" beer: it costs
only .5 as much, and helps you avoid the dreaded "booze bus".

I'm raving a bit here, having consumed excessive amounts of said
beverage last night (NYE).. Hope this helps.

>ObBasketball: Longley is an above average NBA stiff, IMHO.  I don't see that
>he's any worse than, say, Will Perdue or Greg Dreiling, for example.  I don't
>know that there are too many other teams besides Dallas and Minnesota that he
>would get significant minutes for, but that doesn't mean he doesn't belong in
>the NBA.

Yes, my point exactly.  I'm not suggesting he is going to be anything
special, but I don't think it is accurate to say he doesn't belong in
the league.  He is only a second year player, and has shown quite
a bit of improvement from his rookie year (which admittedly, he would
need to!).


Rob
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro