From: eliot@stalfos.engr.washington.edu (eliot)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: INFFINITI vs BMW
Date: 12 Nov 92 21:00:06 GMT
Article-I.D.: engr.Nov12.201906.15650
Organization: clearer than blir

In article <1992Nov11.191116.12480@ctp.com> bpita@ctp.com (Bob Pitas) writes:
>In article <Nov08.232733.16777@engr.washington.edu> eliot@lanmola.engr.washington.edu (eliot) writes:

>Actually, no, the Q45 is not my yardstick...  I meant in a general sense.
>I personally prefer performance cars, and dispise luxury, if only because
>it adds weight. (Therefore decreasing performance)

>My point about
>performance is that in order to get a BMW with the performance capabilities
>of the Q, you have to go to BMWs that cost twice as much.  And at twice
>the price, they're still no more luxurious than the Q.

First of all, which BMW are you talking about that costs twice of a
q45?  the M5 costs somewhere in the $60K range, not quite twice of
$40K+ for the Q.  for $10K less, the 325i comes pretty close to the
q45's accerleration.  Secondly, it sounds like your criteria is coming
down to bang for the buck.  In that case, the Q45 is hardly remarkable
as well.  Lots of pony cars and pocket rockets will put the Q45 to
shame for half the asking price.  Also, I'm not able to quite figure
out if you are for luxury or against luxury since the above two
paragraphs seems to contradict one another.

>I personally wouldn't own a Q because it's performance isn't up to the
>standards I hold, but I've driven one, and I've driven the 735, and
>there was no comparison.

which i wouldn't find unbelievable.. but i wouldn't bash the entire
range based on one less than spectacular example unless i've driven
every single model.

>You don't have to tell me about communication from from the car.

[..]

>I can
>hear *everything* that goes on with my engine, and I routinely shift by
>sound alone.  I feel every little road irregularity I hit...

>But even though the car is noisy inside, and needs to be warmed up in
>winter, (its carberated) and causes passengers fatigue during long trips
>because it rides roughly, I absolutely LOVE to drive it, and look forward
>to driving home (through Cambridge traffic, no less) every night.

you're onto something here.. your mustang is one extreme on the
refinement scale.  the lexus is on the other, and presumably the q45
is towards the lexus end.  comfort and communication tend to be
conflicting requirements.  it is often a compromise.  while i can't
speak for the 735i, i found that the compromises chosen for the 525i
to be as close to perfect as i've ever experienced.  the car is
impressive as a whole.  the whole is greater than the sum of its
parts.  the beauty of its design is in all its subtleties.  the weight
and feel of the controls, the amount of feedback it provides given a
reasonable ride quality, the styling, the sounds, the instruments...

the way the compromises are chosen for the 5 series reflect a lot on
the company's traditions and philosophy.  these are decisions that a
super computer will not be able to make.  the latest japanese super
sedans and super sports cars tend to be technically and scientifically
more perfect than the europeans, but in some cases they are far less
satisfying to the human soul, the lexus being a good example. 

>I know it's hard to judge a car on any objective criteria, since so much
>of the cars value is the fact that the driver should *enjoy* being in
>the car.  After driving the BMW, with it's mushy suspension, and
>no feedback at all, I couldn't wait to get back to my Mustang.  I didn't
>get that feeling as much after driving the Q45.  That's what I'm basing 
>my opinions on.

thanks for clarifying your point.  if i'm not mistaken the 735i is one
of the first german cars to get the god-awful servotronic variable
assist steering that mimics honda at its worst.  current audis have
also been infected by this nightmare, which is why they're falling out
of favor with me.  i have found nissan steering to be better than
average, but nothing like a vw.  not all bmws have servotronic; i
think only the 7 series are cursed with it.. also ZF has improved
servotronic some, so it might not be as bad as before.

while i don't consider the q45 a bad car at all by any objective
standards, it also seems like it is not quite my cup of tea.  i have
yet to come across a critical review that gives its suspension
("active" or not) high praises.  i think i will go drive one this
weekend...


eliot
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