From: aidler@sanjuan.UVic.CA (E Alan Idler)
Subject: Re: Children in church (was Re: 20/20 and Spanking)
Organization: University of Victoria
Date: 13 Nov 92 00:09:24 GMT

judy@locus.com (Judy Leedom Tyrer) writes:

>In article <dlhanson.31.721337335@nap.amoco.com> dlhanson@nap.amoco.com (David L. Hanson ) writes:
>>
>>I would also ask why the children, of all ages, are not in the church
>>service with their parents.  Jesus Christ said specifically "let them
>>come to me" when the disciples tried to keep the children from bothering
>>Him.  Even in our churches, we don't want to be bothered by children which
>>is a sad commentary on society and churches (my local church is guilt of
>>this also).
>>

Since I don't attend at Judy's church, it may be
difficult for me to follow all the implicit
assumptions in her posting so I plead forgiveness
in advance.

>Well, I can see several reasons.  First and foremost for why MY children are
>in Children's Fellowship and not in church is that church is geared for adults
>and children find it boring.  I can remember counting the number candles in
>the candelabra, the number of rafters and beams, calculating how many people
>can squeeze into a pew, and how long it took to polish all the wood.  In
>our church, children under age 6 may either be in fellowship with other
>children or in church.  

Children need to become accustomed to the formalities
of church worship, the language of the Bible, etc.

Our children spend an hour (maybe less ... [see below]) 
in a family service with us followed by two with children
from their own age group.

We hope that they will receive some spiritual fulfillment
from the family service.  We also believe that it is
important for children to see their parents' religious
participation.
We also pray and read scriptures together daily for 
these purposes.

>Second is that toddlers tend to be very disruptive to the service.  As a
>parent I NEED quiet prayer time to commune with God, to listen to the sermon,
>to contemplate on my life.  Trying to keep my daughter from running up the
>aisle, screaming, kicking her heels on the pew in front of me, etc. is not
>conducive to worship.  

We are asked to exhibit some tolerance for younger 
families.  However, parents are requested to remove
children who won't settle.  When we remove our 
children, they know that it will be to *sit* like 
they should in church -- not play (a reward).
They usually choose to be in church with the others.

Mrs. Idler practices reverence at home with the
children for short periods of time.

We bring quiet toys with us to church.  We told
our son at 6YO that he had to wait ~20 minutes for
communion and then 5 minutes into the sermons
before he could ask for the toys.  Now that he
is almost 9 we expect him to wait 10 minutes.
We imposed this limit because we want to 
encourage some interest in the service and
because we don't want him to become bored with the
toys too soon.
After all, what are we going to say then?  "Listen
to the interesting sermon, son."

>We have three Holy Days each year in which all children are requested to attend
>services.  They are Christmas, Palm Sunday, and Easter Sunday.  On these days
>the services are geared toward the children.  On Christmas, Mother Beryl dresses
>like a shepherd in Jerusalem talking about "have you heard this rumor".  All
>the children run up and sit on the dais.  She acts shocked when they tell her
>about Jesus being born and being the son of God. It is a charming and delightful
>service.  The other days are more formal, but still involve stories geared for
>children.

>Our children come into service for baptisms whenever they occur and every
>Sunday for communion.  They are welcome any other time.  But to force a 3 YO
>to sit still and be quiet while some adult drones on and on is not the way
>I envision establishing a love of church in my children.  Rather it made me
>run away as fast as I could as far as I could as soon as I could.

Our children and youth participate much more than this 
in our regular services.

From the age of 12, our young men may participate in 
preparing and delivering the communion.
My son is keenly awaiting this opportunity.

Our youth will occasionally preach short sermons.
Even the children have the opportunity to contribute, too.
On Sunday the 22nd, the entire service will involve 
their participation.  Mostly there will be children's choirs, 
but each child is asked to make an individual contribution 
as well.  My 6YO has a one line part of a poem to recite and 
my 8YO volunteered to prepare a one minute sermon (under
Mrs. Idler's tutelage).

>Jesus said, "Suffer the little children to come unto me."  Not, "Shove me down
>the little children's throats."  I think there is a world of difference.
>-- 
>Judy Leedom Tyrer

I am never reluctant to participate with my children 
in worship or Christian service. 
I try to be tolerant of their needs.
From time to time we have services that we know will
last 2 hours or involve attending church twice on
a Sunday.  Some "fanatics" will bring their children
(and we all suffer ...).  Mrs. Idler and I will 
decide which of us will remain home with the
children and the other parent will attend separately.

A IDLER
From: janem@hpfcdc.fc.hp.com (Jane Marcus)
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1992 19:44:31 GMT
Subject: Re: Our parents and spanking  Re: 20/20 and Spanking
Organization: HP Fort Collins, Co.