HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: yasu@ll.mit.edu (Alan Yasutovich)
Subject: Re: Alternatives to Spanking?
Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 14:35:10 GMT

In article <1992Jul27.203110.15519@cs.brown.edu> mhn@cs.brown.edu (Marian H. Nodine) writes:
>In reply to my posting on spanking, consequences, and tantrums ...
>In article <92209.134321CXF12@psuvm.psu.edu> <CXF12@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>>I agree with a previous poster that tantrums are not necessarily "bad", but
>>that it is important to teach children to channel their anger or frustration
>>in a way that won't hurt someone else.
>
>I, too think that tantrums are not always "bad".  I tend to try to categorize
>my kids tantrums into those that are caused by frustration, and those
>that are based in rebellion.  For frustration, I try to teach my children
>that they can ask for help if they want.  This has actually worked very
>well, even with my 19-month-old.  Rebellion, however, is a different problem.
>I think the original poster was really defining a rebellious tantrum -- 
>every time her friend's son was asked to do something by his mother, he
>went into a temper tantrum.  This kind of tantrum I do think is bad, and
>requires some action on the part of the parents. 
>
>>However, I wanted to comment on the
>>implication that spankings (unlike showers?) bear a logical relationship to
>>tantrums.  How does hitting a child bear a logical relationship to having a
>>tantrum?
>
>The reason I commented about spanking was that this was a solution that
>the mother originally tried, and had given up on.  I did not think that
>she had tried it in any way that had a chance of being effective, and
>tried to give a different perspective on this approach.  The showers,
>even though they do not seem to be a good approach, were effective ...
>
>In terms of spanking being a logical consequence, it isn't.  There is not
>really a logical consequence for rebellion, at least an immediate one.
>In the long term, rebellion leads to resentment and bitterness, which
>*are* destructive to the family relationships, but by the time it builds
>up to this stage and is recognized, it is often too late.
>(Over-disciplining your children also can have this effect.)
>
>In our family, we spank after rebellious tantrums because we have a rule
>with our children that rebellion leads to spanking, and a rebellious
>tantrum is treated in the same way as other rebellious acts.  In almost
>every other case, we use logical consequences, though.


	Even *I*, the advocate of spanking, disagree with this.

	Our daughter threw a tantrum once.  My wife walked away.
				     ^^^^
				     ^^^^


-- 
	Alan Yasutovich
	"inquiring  (and nosey) minds WANT TO KNOW!!!"
	I can remember when "safe sex" meant having a padded headboard!!
	Tick Tock.....Tick Tock......Tick Tock .....Tick Tock......
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: skipa@milton.u.washington.edu (Skip Albertson)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Twelve yr. old caught stealing women's underwear!
Summary: 12 yr old caught stealing women's underwear
Keywords: 12 yr. old caught stealing women's underwear
Date: 29 Jul 92 02:06:34 GMT
Article-I.D.: milton.skipa.712375594
Organization: University of Washington

If your 12 yr. old boy was caught stealing women's underwear
at a department store, what would you do?
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: wensel@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Sharon Taylor)
Subject: Re: Nice Furniture and kids
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 19:34:45 GMT

If you are looking at sofas and soft chairs, I highly
recommend selecting fabrics with olefin in them.
I have a sofa that has been abused by three wild kids
and their friends for more than a decade
and, while the pillows are sagging, the fabric looks
practically new.  Olefin holds up like iron.
I've shopping for a new sofa now and the salespeople
at La-Z-Boy and Breuners agreed with me that olefin
is the most sturdy fabric.

I'll also second the other poster who suggested getting
fabric colors and patterns that hide stains.  Before you
buy new furniture, imagine what it will look like with
grape juice and chip crumbs spilled all over it.  :-)
- Sharon Taylor
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: leeba@mot.com (Leeba Salzman)
Subject: Re: Waking up at night
Reply-To: leeba@mcil.comm.mot.com
Organization: Motorola Communications Israel Ltd., Tel Aviv
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 05:34:02 GMT

In article <TIGGER.92Jul21131929@satyr.Sylvan.COM> tigger@satyr.Sylvan.COM (Grace Sylvan) writes:
>There is an alternative test to the glucose test for diabetes.
>
>Ask your doctor about it -- it has to do with eating a high
>carbohydrate meal 2(?) hours before the blood test. My midwife always
>uses that test instead of the sugar water test. (Many of her clients
>also don't ingest tons of sugar in their diet, and much prefer the
>test which better matches their eating habits)
>
As I recall there are two tests GTT (Glucose Tolerance Test) which involves
drinking that awful stuff and PTT (can't remember name offhand).  

In the PTT, they take blood while you're fasting, you eat a high carbo meal 
(they told me to have a sandwich with jelly and some drink with sugar), then
take blood 2 hours later.  If you score high (i.e. your body couldn't 
process the sugar well within that space of time), they give you the GTT.

In the GTT, they take blood, you drink the stuff, and then they take blood
at 60, 90 and 120 minutes.

During all three of my pregnancies the PTT test was considered adequate (once
per trimester.)  I was told now, that they are moving towards making the GTT 
standard.

I seem to recall that women who don't have blood sugar problems usually have 
lower blood sugar readings during pregnancy.  Can anyone confirm this?
From: IO81409@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (Ailsa N.T. Murphy)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: why do people react to this stuff (long)
Date: 31 Jul 92 06:46:15 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Maine System

add to her post the fact that peopel who post posts
quoting the bible on child beating also might post
posts quoting the bible on such lovely ideas as
"thou shalt not suffer a witvh to live" and "for a
man to lie with a mans as with a woman is an abomination."
the bible is used as stick to beat people with altogether
too often for the beatees to react sensibly when seeing
it dragged out again...  never know when one might get
hit with it again...

this is why i never quote religious texts.  people who
care what they say already know, and peopel who don't
care what they say don't want to know.  so why shove it
up people's noses?  add to that teh fatc that no one ever
refers to the christian god by name, or qualifies it
with the fact that it is the CHRISTIAN god, nto the ONLY
god, which is pretty damned arrogant if you ask me.  there
are a lot of deities worshipped and honored on this planet,
so referring to one of them as God or Goddess is stupid.
i might as well name my cat, Cat, or my daughter, Girl.  or
say that my feelings on any given subject are THE maternal
opinions on a subject.

                                  -ailsa
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: thall@Ingres.COM (Trevor Hall)
Subject: Re: Alternatives to Spanking?
Reply-To: thall@Ingres.COM (Trevor Hall)
Organization: Ask Computer Systems Inc., Ingres Division, Alameda CA 94501
Distribution: na
Date: 27 Jul 92 15:39:02 GMT

In article <1992Jul27.145247.6791@cs.brown.edu> mhn@cs.brown.edu (Marian H. Nodine) writes:
>In <1992Jul25.192711.16723@cbnewsc.cb.att.com> kapa@cbnewsc.cb.att.com (k.a.perkins) writes:
>If this is the approach you are taking, you need to teach the child
>to calm down and get things under control.  Once the child has been
>brought under control, *then* you explain that having a tantrum is
>wrong, and why.  *Then* you spank them.  Then you forgive them for
>having the tantrum, give them a hug, affirm your love for them, and
>
...
>no relationship to cleanliness.  Timeouts are better, because they teach 
>the child that being out of control is wrong, so you give them some time
>to get under control.  If she wants to use a timeout, she may need to

I have to disagree on a semantic point.  It's the general concept that
tantrums are "wrong" and that "being out of control" is "wrong".  By
definition, "being out of control" means that the child is not acting
deliberately.  The tantrum results because the child is no longer able
to deal with a situation in a deliberate/rational manner.

I don't believe that the tantrum itself is what needs to be controlled.
The trantrum needs to run it's course, to provide the child with some
outlet for his/her frustration.  What does need to be controlled is
any sort of physical destructiveness by the child and/or our response
to the tantrum.

The child needs to know two things:

	o People occasionally lose control.  It doesn't mean that you
	  are "bad" or "wrong", just that you have reached your limit.

	o There are non-destructive ways of acting when you have reached
	  your limit.  You can yell, hit the floor, stamp your feet.  You
	  should not hit someone else, hit yourself, or try to force the
	  other guy's car off the road.

Regarding my last comment, yes, I have tantrums, too.  Usually in rush-hour
traffic.  So I yell (with the windows up), and generally berate the ances-
try of the other driver.  Then, after a minute or two, it's over.  I
haven't hurt anyone and I am back under control again.

--
 +-----+ Trevor Hall                     "Frisbeetarianism: the belief
 |    #| Database Engineer                that when you die, your soul
 |     | Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.   goes up on the roof and gets
 +-----+ thall@sequent.com                stuck."
Organization: University of Maine System
Date: Tuesday, 21 Jul 1992 16:45:35 EDT
From: Ailsa N.T. Murphy <IO81409@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: baby's last name?
 <1992Jul21.162624.2561@hplabsz.hpl.hp.com>

i'm shaking my head in amazement that the fact that people
might think that the child was born out of wedlock is an
issue worth worrying about.  what if they do?  in my case,
they woudl be quite correct.  no big deal, imho.  lots of
kids have unmarried mothers, especially in the lesbian
community *grin*

of course, i'm an oddity.  i took my husband's surname
when i got married, as my husband was less abusive than
my father, and i have not changed it back on teh divorce.
so katy is katherine elizabeth cunningham, and i am
ailsa nitara tivon murphy.  if i produce more kids, they
will be murphys, or perhaps murphy-cunninghams, so to
give them a link with katy.  but upon having had a few
years to think about it, no way in hell would i allow a
child i have given birth to to have any other surname than mine.
sperm-things are emphemeral.  mothers are forever.

                                        -ailsa
--
It's not what you got, it's what you give           _______________
It ain't the life you want, it's the life you live. \    DYKE    /
It's not what you got, it's what you give             \ PRIDE! /
And it ain't what it's not, but what it is.             \    /
(IO81409@maine.maine.edu or wang.com!ailanth!ailsa)       \/
From: ooblick@intercon.com (Mikki Barry)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Use of drugs during labor - and electronic monitoring
Date: 28 Jul 92 16:13:52 GMT
Reply-To: ooblick@intercon.com (Mikki Barry)
Organization: InterCon Systems Corporation, Herndon, VA

In article <1992Jul28.031113.10985@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov>, 
lauraf@classy.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Laura Floom) writes:
> Well,  here is another thing to think about. Before monitors Nurses were
> trained to listen using an instrument called (I think) a fetasope. Let me
> repeat that, nurses *USED TO BE* trained to use that device. My Doctor, a
> dear old-fashioned soul, likes to talk about the good old days before all
> the fancy equipment when nurses knew how to use the whatchamacallit. Now
> days nurses know how to use the electronic monitors. That is life. Before
> that they used something else. Those days are gone. Now it is monitors. Like
> it or not. It may be dangerous to assume that you dont want the new 
technology,
> cause the old technology doesnt exist anymore. The previous generation was 
> monitored too, but in a different way. 

Well, that's not exactly true.  Certified nurse midwives usually use 
fetoscopes exclusively.  They are far more accurate.  Recent studies have 
proven that the section and forceps rate for those using fetoscopes was far 
lower, and the rate of fetal complications was also lower than with continual 
electronic monitoring.

NB this is not to say that there are no uses for electronic monitoring.  Lots 
of times, higher risk mothers and/or babies need to be monitored constantly.  
If this is the case, they probably don't have a midwife anyway.
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: chirlian@fieser.brynmawr.edu (L.E. Chirlian)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Things we swore we'd never do!
Date: 30 Jul 1992 20:21:48 -0500
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

	
	This morning, I was horrified to find myself doing one of
those things always hated as a child and swore I wouldn't do to my
_own_ child.  What was it you ask?  Well please don't judge me too
harshlly but....

	I washed a bit of smeared food off her face by licking my
finger and rubbing!

	Anyone else out there have any confessions?
						Lisa
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Lisa Chirlian                                  chirlian@fieser.brynmawr.edu
 Department of Chemistry, Bryn Mawr College, Bryn Mawr, PA 19010
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: IO81409@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (Ailsa N.T. Murphy)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Twelve yr. old caught stealing women's underwear!
Date: 30 Jul 92 09:24:20 GMT
Organization: University of Maine System

i'd sit him down and talk to him.  and i would tell him that
just because most boys don't wear women's underwear, doesn't
mean that it is WRONG.  and if her really wants some women's
underwear, we can buy him some.  if he ISN'T stealing it because he
is a young transvestite/transsexual, then you'll find out REAL
fast.  and if one of the above does turn out to be the reason,
then you can get the kid help early.  sex change operations
work MUCH better on peopel who have not gone through puberty.

i would imagine that "Oh my god, my son is a transvestitie/transsexual!"
was probably the original poster's worst possible case scenario.
so, find out!  the only cure for transsexuality is a sex change or
suicide, and people who can't get teh former treatment eventually
opt for the latter one.  and transvestism is also just there, but
harmless, and doesn't in any way indicate that the kid is gay.
most TVs are straight...
                                  -ailsa

p.s. if the original poster's worry was that the kid is gay, i
would tend to doubt it...  why would someoen who is turned on by
men want WOMEN's underwear?
From: swk004@muvms3.bitnet (CONNIE LEINEN, SWK004@MARSHALL, HUNTINGTON, WV)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Response to Deluge About Hillary Clinton
Date: 27 Jul 92 11:28:57 GMT
Organization: Marshall University

In article <1992Jul22.144714.10646@news.nd.edu>, slarsen@verdi.helios.nd.edu (susan larsen) writes:
> Instead of trashing H. Clinton for possibly stepping on a few parental 
> toes, I think the woman should be commended for having the courage to 
> put the force of her personality, learning and reputation to work for 
> the poorest and most legally defenseless segment of our society.
> 
> Treat your children well.
> 
> Sue Larsen
> slarsen@berlin.helios.nd.edu


While I think H. Clinton's plan has quite a few flaws, like Sue Larsen,
I am pleased to see that the problem of "rightless" children is finally
receiving some attention.  Ms. Clinton's plan, as Anne Mitchell points
out, is ripe for misuse.  I might even agree with Ms. Mitchell that this
plan in reality does nothing for the children who most need to "divorce"
their parents.  But I am heartened that the problem is being addressed.

Connie

Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: campbellw@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com (Bill at Allen-Bradley in Cleveland)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: misc.teenagers?
Date: 28 Jul 92 14:56:45 EST

In article <4638@sersun1.essex.ac.uk>, jane@solb1.essex.ac.uk (Shelton J) writes:
> In article <1992Jul21.103440.20277@cbnewsh.cb.att.com> bgt@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (barbara.tongue) writes:
>>folks,
>>
>>being a new lurker to this group, i was wondering
>>
>>	a.) where to post articles about teenagers (this group seems to be
>>		about young children and i don't get any alt groups)
>>
>>	b.) has there ever been a push to creat misc.teenagers?
>>
> OK, I'll rise to this.  Yes, some of us _do_ have teenagers, but if
> anyone else is like me, we're trying to forget about it :-)
> 
> Seriously, I'd be interested in misc.teenagers, but in the meantime,
> has anyone any advice to offer on how to get a stroppy 14 year old
> to do as he is asked?
> 
> We don't have much problem with the big issues - he is a decent kid
> who doesn't give us sleepless nights.  No staying out, no smoking, no
> drugs etc... BUT
> 
> He can be the most obnoxious being on this earth - particularly to me.
> If he doesn't want to do something, like keep his room tidy, he simply
> doesn't.  Getting him to do his homework is a nightmare.  He bugs the
> hell out of his little brothers.  As an example, he was given a TV for
> his room so he could have peace from the littlies - he spends his time
> watching TV in the living room, screeching at the littlies to shut up!
> 
> Time out doesn't work - he simply refuses to leave the room.  Reason
> doesn't work - he can be _really_ unreasonable.
> 
> All in all, there are times when, Heaven help me, I REALLY dislike
> the child.
> 
> Anyone have similar problems?  How do you get your kids to behave
> in a civilised fashion?
> 
> Jane

	I have a 13 year old daughter and a 11 year old son... and
I certainly can relate!! (Even though I am not the custodial parent).
Not long ago I saw this Bill Cosby show where he is talking about
kids. It was so great (it's been around for awhile). He talked about
how it has to do with kids having brain damage - that's why you have
to tell them the same things over and over and over... and then
they continue to do the same thing and when asked why they respond,
'I don't know'. It really helped me put alot of my frustration into
perspective.

Bill

Xref: sparky misc.kids:19998 misc.education:3035
From: uejiowh@dssv01.crd.ge.com (W. H. Uejio)
Newsgroups: misc.kids,misc.education
Subject: Re: Educational funding (was Hillary Clinton)
Date: 29 Jul 92 20:42:01 GMT
Reply-To: uejiowh@crd.ge.com
Organization: GE R&D, DICE Program

I would suggest you look at the budget for the school district
before making generalizations.  If 95% of the 8K goes to teachers
salaries, is this corruption?

I doubt it.  It may be bad negotiation by the appropriate school
board but definitely not corruption.  

In the district I am in, 45% of the school budget goes to teachers,
another 10% goes to administration, which includes the after school
program incentives to teachers, such as coaching, and department heads.

Wayne Uejio             General Electric CRD   Disclaimer: opinions 
uejiowh@crd.ge.com      KWC-275                expressed are my own 
Office: 518-387-6441    P.O. Box 8             and not the company's
Fax:    518-387-7080    Schenectady NY 12301   opinion
From: wang@optigfx.optigfx.com (Alice Wang)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: storing breast milk (was Pregnancy Worries)
Date: 23 Jul 92 18:46:28 GMT
Organization: Optigraphics Corporation, San Diego

In article <1992Jul20.154526.11196@ralph.lafayette.la.us> rha@ralph.lafayette.la.us (Ruth Alleman) writes:
>I freeze expressed milk in disposable bottles with a twist-tie
>closure.  I put a date on the tab (that top part that you're supposed
>to pull off after you get the ring in place) with a "Sharpe pen".

I also use disposable bottles with a twist-tie to store my breast milk.
But for logging the date, I put a piece of clear tape on the bag and
write in the date and quantity with a ballpoint pen.  Then I put another
piece of clear tape on top of that to prevent smearing.  This work very
well.  Of course, I do this before I pour the milk in.  It's amazing
how fast you can defrost these frozen breast milk.

Alice Wang
Mom to Christine, 7 mo
wang@optigfx.com


Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: ohrd!crobshaw@cs.toronto.edu (Catherine Robshaw)
Subject: Re: Pregnancy Worries (WAS: Re: Waking up at night)
Organization: "Ontario Hydro - Research Division"
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 19:08:23 GMT

lorenzo@hsi.com (Evelyn Lorenzo) writes:
: In article <34886@fibercom.COM> rrg@rtp (Rhonda Gaines) writes:
: 
: >On a related note, in the past few days (I wear panty liners all the
: >time whether I'm pregnant or not.  The seem to deter yeast infections)
: >I've noticed that my pantiliner has been saturated by the end of a
: >day.  Not wringing wet or anything.  
:     [text deleted]
: >I'm thinking that if it were a problem, then I would
: >have the same thing happen at night but since there's not anything
: >resembling a puddle in the bed the next morning I'm trying to
: >reassure myself there's nothing wrong.  My next OB appointment is
: >7/30 so I'll definitely mention it then but in the meantime, what
: >is the net.wisdom on this?
: >
: > -rhonda
: >  29 weeks down 11+/- to go!!!
: >
: 
: Rhonda,
: 
: Although increased discharge is common during pregnancy, what you're 
: describing sounds like it's fluid rather than viscous in consistency.  
: I think you should give your OB a call and explain what you've been seeing
: for the past few days.  If the OB thinks it's warranted, there's a test 
: they can do to make sure it's not amniotic fluid and that you haven't 
: "sprung a leak" - just a peek under the microscope.  I'd at least call now
: instead of waiting the next week and a half until your appointment.  
: 
: There's no harm in being cautious - I wouldn't be hesitant to call, either.
: That's what OBs are in business for, right???  

Rhonda, I too had this discharge you describe.  I was about 38 weeks.
It started on a Thursday/Friday.  I did not really think anything of 
it but I mentioned it to my doctor on the Monday following.  He had
me go to the hospital on the Tuesday, prepared for anything.  He said
if it was amniotic fluid, then I would be staying.  So I checked in.
The test they did was very simple.  They took the minipad I had been
wearing and using a cotton swab dipped in some fluid they rubbed it
on the pad.  If it turned a certain colour, then it was amniotic fluid.
If it is, they are fearful of infection to the baby.  Needless to say
I stayed in the hospital and was induced on the Wednesday, one week
early.  There was no water left to break, it had all drained out.
That Tuesday night was the longest of my life!

So I hope this is not your problem, you might be a mom sooner than
you think!  Please post and let me know.  Thanks.

Catharine Robshaw
Mother to 9.5 mo old Bradley
ohrd!crobshaw@cs.toronto.edu