X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Approved-By:  Bill McGarry <wtm@SHELDEV.SHEL.ISC-BR.COM>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.l-hcap
Date:         Tue, 14 Apr 1992 17:27:15 EDT
Reply-To:     Bill McGarry <wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com>
From:         Bill McGarry <wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com>
Subject:      Handicap Digest # 2583
X-To:         LHCAP <l-hcap@VM1.NODAK.EDU>

                          THE HANDICAP DIGEST

                               Issue # 2583

                           Monday, April 13, 1992

Today's Topics:


                                ******


                               lipreading term
                              One Hand Signing
                           Re: Telephone Companies
                         Re: Me And We And Deafness
                                SIGN LANGUAGE
                           Me and We and Deafness
                           Me and We and Deafness
                                ASL & English
                             Prominent Deaf Info
                                 Re: Audism


                                ******


To subscribe to the Handicap Digest mailing list or have your
thoughts in the next issue, please send electronic mail to
Bill McGarry at any of the following addresses:


UUCP:       {oliveb, isc-br, decvax}!bunker!wtm
INTERNET:   wtm@bunker.shel.isc-br.com
BITNET:     l-hcap@ndsuvm1.bitnet
Fidonet:    The Handicap News BBS (141/420)   1-203-337-1607
	    (300/1200/2400 baud, 24 hours)
Compuserve: 73170,1064

                              Bill McGarry (Moderator)
                              (203) 337-1518



------



Subject: lipreading term
From: Karen.Keil@p0.f809.n104.z1.fidonet.org (Karen Keil)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/809.0 - Fantasy Mountain, Golden CO


[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]

Just had another thought...the term 'orthophonist' is probably
equivalent to the American term, 'speech therapist.'  Other than
that, I never called my therapists by any other name.

In high school, I also had a special person called an 'itinerant
teacher.'  He/she would come to my school once a week at least and
meet with me to talk about how things were going and to help out if
I had problems.  They were a great help, especially when something
was going wrong in a class.  Even when everything was going well, we
would talk about other things, such as future plans like college.
They all said to aim high and to never sell myself short.

This itinerant teacher concept was something brand-new to me and I
haven't heard of this done elsewhere to date.

Karen

--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!104!809.0!Karen.Keil
Internet: Karen.Keil@p0.f809.n104.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: One Hand Signing
From: James.Womack@f71.n382.z1.fidonet.org (James Womack)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:382/71 - BitStream, Round Rock Tx


[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]

A lot of people with severe cerebral palsy with arms and hands
curled or one immobile also sign. In Arizona, we had a hearing lady
with one arm (and she was a stunning beauty too) and she signed
just fine. Her arm was cut off at the elbow and I had no trouble
talking with her via signs. Heck, she was better than some people
who had worked with the Deaf for 20 years and still can't sign
worth a darn!

--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!382!71!James.Womack
Internet: James.Womack@f71.n382.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Re: Telephone Companies
From: Ann.Stalnaker@p0.f2120.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Ann Stalnaker)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:124/2120.0 - Fingers Talk, Irving TX


[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]

Hi Ron - good to see you back around.

 > DL>>  You mean TDDs are charged different then voice/ascii
 > calls?

 ==>It all depends if you telephone company offers a discount,
 ==>and you have a hearing impaired TDD user within your
 ==>household.  You must contact your telephone company for
 ==>further information and possibly a discount application.

 > In fact, non-deaf businesses with TDD access pay MORE than
 > the cost of a telephone call, since TDD calls take longer.
 >  One of hazards of providing access.

 > Support your local accessible businesses!  Make accessibility
 > an economic necessity for any good businessperson!

I receive a HI discount on both of my phone lines here at home,
the BBS one and the TT one.

Most businesses are able to write off the telephone charges
on their bills as an expense, however, they are usually given
a tax break if they have disabled employees.  I think when
the communication portion of the ADA goes into effect in
July 1993, businesses will be able to realize a discount
if they provide access for their disabled/HI customers.

What I'm really concerned about right now is with all of
the computerized services offered by the phone companies
not being compatible with TT's.  It is a major concern here
in the DFW area since they are the test site for the computerized
operator services (which I hope fails big time).  Most residential
lines do not have an extender (which is the bell device that
amplifies the tone) which causes us some real frustration when
we can't transmit data on our TT's when we call long distance
to other states that have not upgraded to the state of the art
new telephone lines.  The phone companies are aware of the
problem but they are not sure how to fix it yet other than to
add the extender on to the lines that need it.

I never had any problems from my office but then most businesses
have the extender on their lines, especially those that use
computers for the operation of their business (what businesses
don't nowadays) but my sister who works for a large corporation
all of a sudden had some problems calling Oklahoma about a month
ago.  This is what I was going through here at home after no
problems the first month and a half after I moved here.  She
works in Dallas, I work and live in Irving...so we feel it is
something AT&T, SW Bell and GTE have failed to catch.  It's
really a weird situation and naturally they don't even have
a trouble shoot technician who is knowledgeable with this
sort of problem.  Looks like it is going to take some of
us to educate them, huh?  What a BIG headache...

--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!124!2120.0!Ann.Stalnaker
Internet: Ann.Stalnaker@p0.f2120.n124.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Re: Me And We And Deafness
From: Ann.Stalnaker@p0.f2120.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Ann Stalnaker)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:124/2120.0 - Fingers Talk, Irving TX


[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]

 > We each have our own identity and some of us might think
 > we are part of a deaf group.  I think that I'm part of
 > a group allright but the name of this group is called
 > "Human Beings". I don't believe in grouping people
 > (like deafs or blinds) and creating their own culture.
 > or blinds)  It's putting oneself apart of the society.
 > I KNOW I'm deaf and God knows I've accepted it quite a
 > while ago.

Thanks for your excellent message, Hugues.  I certainly
agree with you about the grouping - and until others
realize that we need to join forces as a whole, we are
not going to be able to open the barriers.

I've never been a part of any group and I don't intend to
be in the future.  I am ME first and I love people - it
doesn't matter what group they are in - we all are human
beings and individuals first.

--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!124!2120.0!Ann.Stalnaker
Internet: Ann.Stalnaker@p0.f2120.n124.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: SIGN LANGUAGE
From: Betty.Mcbroom@f27.n3615.z1.fidonet.org (Betty Mcbroom)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:3615/27 - TN Deafness I N BBS, Knoxville TN


[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]

LG>Please describe to me how in the world your friend manages to use sign
LG>language with one hand.  From what I have witnessed of sign language, most o
LG>the signs reqquire two hands.  Like "friend" -- you put one forefinger on to
LG>of the other forefinger.  Or "work" -- you put one fist on top of the other
LG>fist.  How could you do either of these one handed?

Hope you don't mind me jumping in, Laurel.   But I know signers
that have one-hand, or couple of fingers on both elbows (like those
Thalidimode babies), or hands with cut tendons because of a knife
attack, or paralysis on one side due to stroke or brain damage.
That hasn't stopped these people from using signs.  And they aren't
condemned by the other people we know.

If I'm holding something like a baby or a fragile vase, I can still
sign "friend" or  "work" with one hand and still be understood.  The
hand used is the dominant hand and it still would make the same
movements and parameters.

                            b

 ~ SLMR 2.1a ~ I BBS because no one can read my handwriting

--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!3615!27!Betty.Mcbroom
Internet: Betty.Mcbroom@f27.n3615.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Me and We and Deafness
From: Karen.Keil@f71.n343.z1.fidonet.org (Karen Keil)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:343/71 - Seattle Hearing Imp, Seattle WA


[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]

 JW> Karen, you are part of a group whether you want to be
 JW> or not. First of all, by virtue of your mom and
 JW> dad, you are member of a social group called a
 JW> nuclear family (and nuclear in this case has
 JW> nothing to do with sibling rivalries or other
 JW> family fights <grin.).  Second, by virtue of being
 JW> born, you are automatically a member of a national
 JW> group. I'm assuming you are an American. By the
 JW> same token, you are also a member of a
 JW> subspecies of the biological family tree known as homo sapiens. We
 JW> refer to such subgroups as races. All members of
 JW> such
 JW> subgroups have what we called " social structures."
 JW>  Such structures posses certain social norms,
 JW> traditions, and a language. The language embodies
 JW> the soul of that culture.A language reflects and
 JW> expresses a people's self-perception. For example,

You are right about a person belonging to a group whether he/she
chooses to belong or not.  You are correct about the family group,
the national group (American) and about the human species.  Yes, I
feel a part of these groups and define my identity in these ways,
too.  I also identify with certain ethnic groups from which I'm
descended from who came to America from the 'Old Country.'  You are
correct that we belong to certain groups regardless of whether it
was our personal choice or not.  But....we can choose not to belong
to such groups that we are born into...such as renouncing my
American citizenship to become say, a subject of Australia.

 JW>      Culturally Deaf people share a common
 JW> background, a common history, a common language, a body of
 JW> folklore, and even legends. These elements are the basic
 JW> components of every cultural. Therefore, Deaf people are a
 JW> cultural in every sense. They posses the elements
 JW> that comprise the concept of "we."

I notice that you capitalize the word 'Deaf' in this paragraph.  I
am deaf, true, but I am not Deaf.   I don't feel a part of the Deaf
Culture; I feel a part of the 'deaf people', meaning all people who
share the same common experience of hearing loss that affects their
lives.  In this group includes both 'Deaf' and 'deaf' and 'hard of
hearing' and whatever terms there are.  Therefore, by your
definition, I'm not part of the Deaf people, because I don't share
the common language of sign language, for one thing.   This is part
of why I have mixed feelings about the deaf identity....I'm in the
deaf world, but I'm not of it.  That's why I don't feel the 'we'
part of the Deaf concept.

 JW>      No matter who you are, CIRCUMSTANCES dictate how
 JW> you the individual view yourself. As Americans, we are highly
..........
 JW> Circumstances can make us perceive ourselves as
 JW> Deaf first. Other circumstanes make us perceive
 JW> ourselves as James first or Karen first or whatever
 JW> the concept of "I' or "me" calls itself.

Can't argue with that.  Circumstances also include people who lump
me with deaf people.....and that identification introduces me to
situations I wouldn't have encountered otherwise, such as the deaf
employee group at my company, which has both Deaf and deaf people
(like me).

 JW>      I hope your feelings are less mixed now. Mine
 JW> were once mixed too. I used to hate sign language
 JW> in any form. I used to detest deaf people, though I
 JW> was deaf myself. Then I discovered both myself and
 JW> my Deaf self, and I love them both. It does not
 JW> mean I reject others, either "deaf" or hearing. It
 JW> means I'm not ashamed of who and what I am. It
 JW> means I under the "me" better. It means I accept my
 JW> deafness and love  "my people." That I will not
 JW> waste my time and life trying to be something I am
 JW> not. I simply am. And I belong.

It's difficult for me to express just what I feel about the Deaf
culture in relation to myself.  (Mixed feelings, definitely.)  I
did not hate sign language when I encountered it....I just felt
left out, not knowing the language, stories and other components of
the Deaf culture.  I never hated Deaf people---it was just that I
felt frustrated not having a common ground with them--not even
common interests, e.g. discussing books.  I felt that many Deaf
people were not versed in the culture of the hearing world (don't
know how else to term it) and that they were short-changing
themselves by isolating themselves as a separate Cultural group
with nothing shared with other human groups, not even fluency in
written English.

Also, some Deaf people came across to me as very simple-minded, not
having much breadth of view of life, e.g. limited and shallow.
Mind you, this is just my personal opinion.  Going in the same
vein, I undoubtedly seem simple and naive to some hearing people,
especially in the social area.  Even now, I'm still learning things
about social aspects that most people have learned years ago.

There are many things I like about the Deaf culture--the sign
language is beautiful and poetic and I want to learn more of it.
Many of the Deaf experiences are the same as mine---being isolated
where sound is required--e.g. telephones and not being able to
communicate with hearing relatives this way, etc.  There are some
things I don't like about the Deaf culture--its exclusiveness.....I
don't like being labelled negatively as a 'hearie' ( a deaf person
who acts like a hearing person) and having this be implied as
'bad.'

 JW>      I hope your feelings are less mixed now. Mine
 JW> were once mixed too. I used to hate sign language
 JW> in any form. I used to detest deaf people, though I
 JW> was deaf myself. Then I discovered both myself and
 JW> my Deaf self, and I love them both. It does not
 JW> mean I reject others, either "deaf" or hearing. It
 JW> means I'm not ashamed of who and what I am. It
 JW> means I under the "me" better. It means I accept my
 JW> deafness and love  "my people." That I will not
 JW> waste my time and life trying to be something I am
 JW> not. I simply am. And I belong.

I'm not ashamed of being deaf, but I don't regard it as a badge of
identity.  It is just something that exists and which I have to
live with.  I agree that we should accept it as part of ourselves
and not try to be hearing people and 'hear' things where we just
can't.

More later.

Karen

--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!343!71!Karen.Keil
Internet: Karen.Keil@f71.n343.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Me and We and Deafness
From: Karen.Keil@f71.n343.z1.fidonet.org (Karen Keil)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:343/71 - Seattle Hearing Imp, Seattle WA


[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]

Still continued.....
Will quote this section again with more comments....

 JW>      I hope your feelings are less mixed now. Mine
 JW> were once mixed too. I used to hate sign language
 JW> in any form. I used to detest deaf people, though I
 JW> was deaf myself. Then I discovered both myself and
 JW> my Deaf self, and I love them both. It does not
 JW> mean I reject others, either "deaf" or hearing. It
 JW> means I'm not ashamed of who and what I am. It
 JW> means I under the "me" better. It means I accept my
 JW> deafness and love  "my people." That I will not
 JW> waste my time and life trying to be something I am
 JW> not. I simply am. And I belong.

I don't have a Deaf self.  I have a 'me' self, a personal identity
that has common elements with other people that enables me to be
part of many groups--family, national, social, etc.  I identify
with other deaf people and clip out articles wherever I find them,
for ex. the Denver Broncos football deaf black player Kenny
Walker.  I identify with him and root for him because we have an
element in common in our identities--deafness.

I subscribe to a variety of Deaf publications and magazines not
only to learn more about the Deaf culture, but also to benefit from
the information to make my life easier.  For instance, information
about TDDs, relay services, experiences of other deaf people to
show that I'm not alone in experiencing certain things.  For the
same reason, I joined SHHH to make my life better and more
meaningful.

There are many things that could be said or expressed, but writing
this has lifted some of the load off my chest.  The bottom line is,
I'm not a hearing person and will never be able to do many things
most hearing people enjoy, and I will not be able to participate
fully in their conversations and gatherings.  But, at the same
time, I'm not a 'Deaf' person and won't be able to participate
fully in the Deaf world unless I learn sign language and other
cultural things.  I'm in between, and the idea of the Deaf culture
to be 'exclusive' is NOT a wise course to be pursued!

I'm trying to meet everyone halfway, both hearing and Deaf and
deaf, and the desire of some 'Deaf' people to be exclusive does not
make things easier.

Enough for now...I said too much!

Karen

--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!343!71!Karen.Keil
Internet: Karen.Keil@f71.n343.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: ASL & English
From: James.Womack@f71.n382.z1.fidonet.org (James Womack)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:382/71 - BitStream, Round Rock Tx


[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]

from: Wayne Silsbee
To:Patrick Hayes

Okay. I'll accept this analysis. It *looks* unstructured. From my
original argument, this changes nothing. It still *causes* the
shortening and "de-structuralizing" of English when English is
signed.

Right? Wrong?
---------------------------------------------------------------

JW>You're wrong, I am afraid. Whenever a non-native user of a
language faces that language, it "looks" or "sounds" funny. that's
because s/he recognizes it is distinct from his/her own language.
This in no way means the different language is non-structured. It
means it is distinct from ones own. When you go assigning a
westernized alphabet to Asian, Soviet, and other language that
possess their own alphabet, you make it "unstructured" in terms of
phonetic representation. But to call it unstructured is an insult
to the people and culture whose language it is. They didn't ask you
to mess with what's theirs and not yours.

Now with SEE and ASL, the people involved took the motions and some
of the handshapes of ASL and hearized it into SEE, SE,and other MCE
forms. Then had the gall to cal ASL unstructured.

English tends to be the odd language out when you look at word
order of other languages. We say theirs is backwards while ignoring
that ours is the one different from the so many "theirs." English
is shot with exceptions so that it has a contradictory set of
grammar and syntax rules. Other languages tend to rather consistent
with grammar, gender references, and meanings. If one really wants
to call language unstructured,English is a prime candidate for it.
So much so, that ASL according to research has more common
characteristics shared with most languages on Earth than English
does (research in this area is supposed to be on-going at the
University of Michigan last I heard).

If you took Spanish and added English prefixes and suffixes and
word order to it, you'd get such a hodgepodge of gooblygook,the
native Spanish speakers would not recognize it. Who would waste
their time this way, you ask? A gosh darn good question! Because
that's exactly what educators have done with ASL! After making
signs practically unintelligible to native users, they sit back and
lament why the majority of Deaf can't master English. As if
phonetics can be perceived by the eye! It is inherent ridiculous.
The eye is a photo-particle collector. the ear is a sonic receptor.
These two organs have totally different functions! That this basic
scientific fact escapes "educators" of the Deaf is inconceivable.
But it has escaped them nonetheless. And the result is them sitting
back there saying how unstructured the visually based natural
language of the deaf is and how structured the phonetically based
hearing people's English is. The absurdity is just incredible. And
it persists. But now, its beginning to anger Deaf people. Very
much.

--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!382!71!James.Womack
Internet: James.Womack@f71.n382.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Prominent Deaf Info
From: James.Womack@f71.n382.z1.fidonet.org (James Womack)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:382/71 - BitStream, Round Rock Tx


[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]

> I am writing this request for my wife on her request since she does
> not have access to Newsnet.  She is working in the Lexington
> Institute in New York under a College work study program, and she
> has been asked to compile a list of prominent people who are deaf
> and who are minorities (black, hispanic, indian, oriental, etc)
> past or present.

> It seems that they are not too easy to find.  As a side
> question,this is for my own curiosity, are there any books written
> on studies of how other societies, ancient or modern, have dealt
> with the deaf people? Was there a serious effort to communicate
> with them or were they just considered

JW>

I'd advise you togetthe following books from the Gallaudet
Bookstore: DEAF IN AMERICA; VOICES OF A CULTURE, AMERICAN DEAF
CULTURE, DEAF LIKE ME,BLACK AND DEAF IN AMERICA, A PLACE OF THEIR
OWN.

--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!382!71!James.Womack
Internet: James.Womack@f71.n382.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Re: Audism
From: John.Linko@p0.f26.n129.z1.fidonet.org (John Linko)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/26.0 - SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]

If you are concerned about the "hits" you are taking, perhaps you
should evaluate the rhetoric you are dishing out, even if it is
coming from other sources.

I am married to a hearing-impaired woman who was taught in an
"oral" setting. So, despite the challenges thrust upon her by
forces beyond anyone's control, she has been taught to speak. She
does this rather well. I admire her for this. I do not consider her
better than other hearing-impaired persons, yet my admiration for
her abilities is labeled as something akin to racism. I do not
consider her inferior, yet a general statement is made that those
hearing persons who taught her have MISLED her and her parents into
believing that she would be happier by speaking. And despite all of
these "injustices", she and I both have good jobs, a house, and a
beautiful baby boy.

Although I haven't been following this thread lately, I have to
take issue with the pessimistic tone that accompanies these types
of attacks on the nature of Deaf education in this country.  As
"just a spouse" and not a credentialed professional, I may only
have a one-sided view of the issue, but it appears to be the one
side that you have not considered. I do not consider my wife to be
a "victim" of Audism; I consider her more of a testimonial to the
potential of ORALISM, which is defined by Webster as "advocacy or
use of the oral method of teaching the deaf".

If you are going to relate the definition of Audism to the
definition of Racism, I must relate the definition of Oralism to
the definition of Feminism, "the theory of the political, economic,
and social equality of the sexes". As far as I am concerned, a Deaf
person can relate their educational experience and cultural
background to the Audism/Racism or Oralism/Feminism models. In
fact, there may be as many interpretations of one's educational and
cultural influences as there are Deaf people. Your attempt to make
them all accede to your model of cultural "assignment" is an
example of how narrow-minded some segments of the so-called "deaf
culture" can be.  JL

--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!26.0!John.Linko
Internet: John.Linko@p0.f26.n129.z1.fidonet.org




------






                                ******

             End of Issue # 2583 of the Handicap Digest

                                ******
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU