From: sbhattac@sales.GBA.NYU.EDU (Shankar Bhattacharyya)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: India (was Re: Dairy farming (Was: Ben & Jerry's ice cream))
Date: 16 Apr 92 17:57:40 GMT
Organization: NYU Stern School of Business

In article <1992Apr16.091415.20895@rtf.bt.co.uk> traub@rtf.bt.co.uk (Michael Traub) writes:
>In article <m0lb9A9-00000dC@bootes.cus.cam.ac.uk> RCJ@AUTOMATION.UNIVERSITY-LIBRARY.CAMBRIDGE.AC.UK writes:

>The  dietary  restrictions  of  the  religions  in  India  range  from near
>fruitarian   (the   Pharsees) ........

If you mean the Parsees, this is not generally true. Most Parsees are
omnivorous, and eat plenty of meat. In fact, they have some quite
spectacular meat dishes.

>Generally  it  is  only  the  lowest castes (through lack of money) and the
>highest  caste,  the  Brahmins (or priest caste) who practice vegetarianism
>exclusively.  ...........

And not everywhere. Brahmins from Kashmir and Bengal eat meat and fish. I
believe those from Assam and Bihar do, too. However, Vaishnavs in these
areas do not eat meat, although those in the east eat fish. The number of
Vaishnavs in the east is small, as compared to the overall population.

>India  has  a  large  shoe  making industry. As many of the hindus will not
>kill  cows  the  muslims  do  the  "dirty"  work. This alone accounts for a
>large  number  of  cows  every  year,  though  I have no idea of the actual
>numbers.  Most  of  the  Hindus have no qualms about wearing leather shoes.
>Also many of the Indian musical instruments are made using animal skins.

However, it is possible to get leather from animals that were not killed
for that purpose, or for any other purpose. The national handicrafts and
cottage industries organizations have a series of shops in the major
cities, where at least some leather goods, and possibly all, are made
from the hides of "naturally dead animals". The packaging says so, in
exactly those words. The organizations are Gandhian, and the Gandhian
attitudes remain. I have sandals made from naturally dead animals, bought
at the Khadi Emporium in Bombay.

I suspect that most of  the leather is from  buffalo hides, by the way,
although I have no specifiable basis for that assumption. I don't even
really know that for a fact. A large cow-slaughtering industry would not
go over well in many places.

>               .....  Most Indians do not consume milk, only those addicted
>to  tea  are  milk  drinkers.  The majority of the milk is used for cheese.

Well, that depends. The reason most Indians do not drink milk is that milk
is scarce, and expensive. Middle class families use fair amounts of it.
However, adults do not usually drink milk. It's regarded as something for
growing kids. Of course, we consume rather a lot of yogurt. A substantial
fraction of the population that can afford it eats yogurt every day.
Indeed, I would risk saying that that includes a substantial majority of
the people who can afford it. My family bought about two liters of milk
every day. Everyone in the family ate yogurt at least once a day.

>The  cheese  is  almost  all  suitable for vegetarians, though I personally
>thought  it  tasted  revolting.

It's not necessarily rennet-free, by the way. In fact, I suspect much  of it
is not. Again, I don't have specifics on that.

There is good cheddar type stuff around, though it is scarce. And paneer,
of course, is not really cheese, if that is what Michael is talking about.
Since he knows rather a lot about Indian food, I suspect he really does
mean cheese, and I cheerfully declare that there is a lot of truly bad
cheese around - when I first got to the US I thought  the Kraft plastics
were really terrific, which should tell people something about the average
quality of Indian cheese.

>  .......  Because  there  is  not  enough  milk  to  go  round,  my cousin
>explained  that  the  milk  was watered down (usually by 50%) and soya milk
>was  added  to  produce  the required quantity. Because the milk is watered
>down  it  is  generally not safe for a westerner to consume it, I ate Raita
>with  yoghurt  in it while I was in India and I came back home with a nasty
>bug  (though  it  could have been the salads we ate, as the ingredients are
>washed in tap water).

Almost all Indians always boil milk, even if it has been pasteurized.

Dilution is quite common. The quality of the product from the dairy
farms is predictable, and freely declared. (Yes, we have dairy farms. The
big one in Bombay is the Aarey Milk Colony, not far from where I lived. And
there are quite a few cooperative dairy organizations. In Gujarat there is
a huge cooperative run by the Amul company.)

Whole milk, as well as milk with different levels of fat, reconstituted
stuff, blends with soy, and straight soy milk are all available from
proper, organized sources, and information on composition is available.

Whole buffalo milk, incidentally, contains about 7% milk-fat, and many
people cut that with water at home. That is simply too serious a product.

The family farms also sell milk, often door to door. In slightly rural
areas the milkman may bring the milk around in vivo, cow or buffalo in
tow, and milk the animal on the spot. Or the milk may arrive in large cans,
from which  it is dispensed.

My father, who is entirely capable of pulling a leg or two, would sometimes
ask our milkman, "So, how much water do you add to the milk?" And the
milkman would say, "I would never do that. I'm not like all the other
milkmen." Both parties knew he did dilute the milk, and that both  parties
knew that. It is not a source of rancour. It is just how it is. Anyway,
one day his rather young nephew arrived instead, and his very solemn answer
was, "I don't know. My uncle takes care of that. You'll have to ask him."
My father was very amused. Next morning the uncle arrived as usual, talking
about how kids say the darndest things, although we did not think it was
any big deal. I presume that the kid had reported the conversation.

You just take this for granted. There are social understandings about how
much dilution is allowed. In Calcutta you can buy milk at explicitly
discriminated prices, which reflect the dilution. It's not even a secret.

People talk about their milk supplier in terms of whether the dilution  is
reasonable, and competitive.

- Shankar
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg,talk.politics.animals