HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mjv8557@eafs000.ca.boeing.com (Mark J. Vandiver)
Subject: Re: speakers for classical music
Organization: be41t
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 18:26:12 GMT

mjf9968@rigel.tamu.edu (Pi(3.143832666)) writes:

>In article <43291@sdcc12.ucsd.edu>, wsun@jeeves.ucsd.edu (Fiberman) writes...
>>If money were no object, what speakers are the best for
>>listening to classical music?
>> 
>>-fm

>	I've heard good things about the Watt/Puppies.
>	Only $220,000 a pair too!  What a bargain!

>	"Money were no object"!  I'm sorry, but you must
>	be kidding.  If money were no object, you could 
>	just hire out the Atlanta Symphony (picked at random)
>	and have 'em do it live.

>	Audio reproduction is *always* a question of the
>	"best sound for the dollar", not simply "the best
>	sound".

>	Living better through chemsitry,
>	Mike "Pi" Freeman
>	MJF9968@rigel.tamu.edu
Try Martin Logans! the cheapies are 2000.oo a pair, and the biggies
are 4000.oo a pair. Listen to them, Best imaging, clarity, frequency
response of any speaker I've listened to under 10,000 a pair. Granted
this is a lot of money! But I have a pair of DQ 10's from Dahlquist
with 2 DQ1W Subwoofers that I purchased 15 years ago. At the time they
cost 1700.oo for the set. A lot of $$$, but I still have them today,
use them as my main speakers. 15 years later, 2000.oo is not bad for
speakers that sound better than what I got then for 1700! Not even 
ten dallars a month for something you use everyday! not bad!
CAnt even get a car for that!
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: qchorn@mtu.edu (Horn)
Subject: Re: WANTED: older Magnavox CD Player
Organization: Michigan Technological University
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 22:53:28 GMT


There's a guy on rec.audio who is selling a "like new"
Magnavox CD player for $125.

Quinn C. Horn
Michigan Technological University
From: pascal@CAM.ORG (Pascal Gosselin)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: Stereo Review's critical judgement
Date: 4 Jan 93 18:40:29 GMT
Organization: Communications Accessibles Montreal, Quebec Canada

palane@iastate.edu (Paul A. Lane) writes:
>Stereo Review believes there are no audible differences between competently
>built preamps, amplifiers, CD players, and cables (plus most tweaks). I would
>be shocked if they ever claimed to here any differences among these compo-
>nents.

Finally someone that understands what digital audio is all about.

You see, CD is very simple. 16bit audio samples (linear) played back
at 44.1Khz. Now, each 16bit value corresponds to a particular voltage
level, which makes the sound we hear.  As long as the D/A converter is
linear, the sound will be essentially perfect.

As for those of you buying $1000+ CD players, I'm afraid you are getting
taken for a big, expensive ride.

It's like buying a Compaq 486 whatever vs. buying a quality clone. Once
the system is set up, SOFTWARE is SOFTWARE and will perform identically
on both computers.  The guy with the Compaq is getting a better casing
and potentially a better warranty. He's got a computer that's better
built, but NOT one that performs better.

Speakers, on the other hand, are mechanical devices (like hard drives) that
will greatly vary in quality based on price.

If anyone has scientific blind tests proving otherwise, please post them,
I'm very curious.

-Pascal
-- 
+--------------------------+-------------------------------------------------+
    Pascal Gosselin        |     Communications Accessibles Montreal  
    pascal@CAM.ORG         |  A non-profit corporation.  Newsfeeds & More.   
  Apple Support Specialist |  For info: info@CAM.ORG or Voice (514) 923-2102 
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: DPierce@world.std.com (Richard D Pierce)
Subject: Re: Those b*s*a*ds in the white van - I hope they got them.
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 21:29:37 GMT

In article <12JAN199312470067@rigel.tamu.edu> mjf9968@rigel.tamu.edu (Pi(3.143832666)) writes:
>
>	Completely off the rec.audio subject, and not to defend
>	Reagan, but I really don't think that this guy falls under
>	the realm of "consumer protection".  First off, he wholely
>	admits that he thought the speakers were stolen ("They told
>	me ... they were BOSE studio speakers being delivered to a
>	record co...."), and secondly, he was an idiot: "...For a 
>	test I said, ('You realize I am spending my tuition money...
>	if these are worthless I can't go to school in the fall'.)".
>	He expected that these complete strangers should *care*
>	about him.  As a "test" he told them he was completely at
>	their mercy, and then gets incensed that they took advantage 
>	of him.  He's a schmuck, and you're a schmuck for thinking
>	that the government should take care of him, and idiots
>	like him.

Well, no, it relates directly to consumer protection. The speakers were
not stolen, they were not Bose monitors. This is one of the many
"official" stories the company taught the sales people (the guys in the
white vans). The court case I was involved in dealt specifically with
those sorts of misrepresentations.

If, for example, it had been two cops selling real stolen goods in a sting
operation, "Hey, these are GREAT speakers, but they're a little hot, but
since they're $1000 a pair Bose monitors, I'll sell them to you for only
$150, but you gotta keep quite about them..." I think anyone who was stung
might have a reasonable case for an entrapment suit, since they might not
otherwise fall for a deal, except for the great price. Why should these
guys in the van get away with it? Why not represent the speakers for what
they really are (answer, because no one would buy them!).

The whole point is that these guys in the van are legally held to the same
standards as other merchants (not "should be", but, according to at least
one court case, "are").

Period.

-- 
|                Dick Pierce                |
|    Loudspeaker and Software Consulting    |
| 17 Sartelle Street   Pepperell, MA  01463 |
|       (508) 433-9183 (Voice and FAX)      |
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: carton@hull.cs.jhu.edu (John Charles Carton)
Subject: Columbia Mail Order Phone #
Organization: Johns Hopkins Computer Science Department, Baltimore, MD
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 13:06:33 GMT

Does anyone have a phone number to contact the Columbia CD mail order
service?  I noticed a # to BMG in the FAQ, but none for Columbia.
From: igb@fulcrum.co.uk (Ian G Batten)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: How can different digital cables sound different?
Date: 5 Jan 93 13:38:54 GMT
Organization: Fulcrum Communications

In article <1993Jan5.070435.16297W@lumina.edb.tih.no> ketil@edb.tih.no (Ketil Albertsen,TIH) writes:
> There are lots of error correcting encodings that do not rely on
> retransmission, but on extra data transmitted as part of the normal
> data exchange. Lots of this is built into the CD format itself - if
> the disk has a scratch, rereading ("retransmitting") it a hundred 
> times won't remove the scratch. But error correcting codes can get 
> around it.

But the error correction used by the CD drive or DAT machine has been
done long before the bitstream is passed over an SPDIF or AEU/EBS
interface.  There is no error correction on that link.

More importantly, there is no clock.  The clock for the DAC is recovered
from the SPDIF datastream.  Jitter in that link will cause on the time
axis the same problems as quantisation errors on the voltage axis: a
source of error between the sampled and the reconstructed waveforms.

Now I have no views on digital interconnects;  my CD and  DAC are linked
with a cable originally from some 2M telecomm racks, my DAT and DAC by a
cheap  Toslink fibre.  However I  would be interested  to know just what
contribution to the overall noise and distortion is made by jitter, just
as  we know  that  quantisation  noise is 96db  down.  The  issue of its
audibility comes later: first quantify the problem.

ian
From: w0s7835@tamsun.tamu.edu (Won Sohn)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Question about Precision Fidelity C9 Preamplifier
Date: 5 Jan 1993 01:55:44 -0600
Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station, TX
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: tamsun.tamu.edu
Summary: PF-C9 Preamp

Is there anyone who knows about PRECISION FIDELITY C9 preamplifier?

My knowledge:
	1. about 10 years old.
	2. hybrid with 12 tubes and FETs.
	3. Better sound than Audio Research SP-6B preamp with my system.

I am particularly interested in its price, quality, and reliabilty.
I would appreciate any comment or suggestions about my question.

Thanks.
Won Sohn

	e-mail:	sohn@ee.tamu.edu
From: shetline@bbn.com (Kerry Shetline)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: How can different digital cables sound different?
Followup-To: rec.audio
Date: 5 Jan 1993 17:47:44 GMT
Organization: BBN
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com

In article <C0E2ry.7Hq@world.std.com>, DPierce@world.std.com (Richard D
Pierce) wrote:
> Take it from someone who is heavily involved in the design of a
> professional digital audio editing workstation. An error-free rate of
> 99.99999% implies a sample error once every 10 million samples which, at
> 44.1 kHz sample rate stereo implies a wrong sample once every 113 seconds.
> If we delivered our product with that kind of error rate, the customers
> would have every right to reject the product. Say the one sample you got
> wrong has the most significant bit flipped, the means you'll get a one
> sample polarity reversal. That will manifest itself as quite and audible
> click.

I think the point should be made here that when a digital cable is bad,
it's BAD. Errors manifest themselves in obvious ways. It's when people
start making claims that their
gold-iridium-multi-weave-oxygen-free-low-cholesterol cables "sound more
musical", "produce tighter base", "preserve ambient information", etc.,
that we've gone off the deep end.

-Kerry
-
-
-
-
From: lstowell@pyrnova.mis.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: MiniDiscs -- What Are They?
Date: 7 Jan 93 01:44:38 GMT
Reply-To: lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corporation

In article <1993Jan6.165948.26279@news.ysu.edu> joe@avs.com (Joe Peterson) writes:
>
>Well, perhaps you are expecting too much from MD technology.  If you are
>listening with an extreamly critical ear, and throwing it on a test bench,
>you are bound to be disappointed!  I own one of these recorders, and I find
>it really cool.  For it's purposes, it sounds great (IMHO).  I have not
>sensed any loss of high frequency response, but then again I have not
>looked at the numbers.  MD, after all, uses perceptual algorithms to
>decrease the data.  I would not be surprized to see strange things (i.e.
>different from CD and DAT) on the test bench.  What counts to me is
>that it is very pleasing to listen to - A LOT better than cassette (again
>IMHO!).
>
    Could you be a bit more specific on what kind of cassette you
    compare it to?

    o  mid-fi auto deck with Dolby B

    o  Ford/JBL system in a Town Car

    o  Walkman quality portable

    o  mid-fi home deck

    o  something like a NAD with HX Pro and Dolby C

    o  Nakamichi Dragon


    Are you dubbing CD's and h.q. LP's or just commercial FM?

    And if you don't mind, what brand/model do you have?   

    Does it sound good over $200 headphones or does it sound better
    over typical "walkman quality" phones?
From: aq511@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jet-Sun Lin)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Sony CDP-C725 and C89ES
Date: 10 Jan 1993 07:04:49 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: aq511@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jet-Sun Lin)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


I am in the market for a new Compact Disc player, and I would like to upgrade
from my current machine to a fairly "high-end" model.

I would like to spend from $400 to $800 or so.  I currently have a one-
disc model, and I would like to upgrade to a carousel.

I have done a little shopping, and I found the Sony CDP-C725 and the
Sony C89ES to be pretty cool machines that were both within my price range.

I have a general question and some specific questions about these models:
First, I would like to know any general impressions that anyone out
there might have (especially if you own one of these models).
Also, I would like to know how well the Digital Signal Processing
works.  And I would like to know the differences between these two
models.  As far as I could tell, they had the same features except for
some very minor differences and the fact that the ES is a limited
production series.  Why the $300 price difference?

Thanks for any information!
-- 
	<Jet>		Jet-Sun Lin		IMSA Class of 1993
	jet@imsasun.imsa.edu (preferred)	aq511@cleveland.freenet.edu
	"What Matters isn't being applauded when you arrive,
	 but being missed when you leave."    --Baltasar Gracian
From: gmaltby@unpcs1.cs.unp.ac.za (Gavin Maltby)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: Cyrus 782 or Mission 763i?
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 12:47:18 GMT
Organization: University of Natal, Pietermaritzburg, South Africa
NNTP-Posting-Host: pc036.cc.unp.ac.za

In article <C0FoDG.1I1@sci.kun.nl> sokovin@sci.kun.nl (Victor Sokovin) writes:
>Newsgroups: rec.audio
>Path: ee.und.ac.za!shrike.und.ac.za!psgrain!uunet!mcsun!sun4nl!sci.kun.nl!sokovin
>From: sokovin@sci.kun.nl (Victor Sokovin)
>Subject: Cyrus 782 or Mission 763i?
>Message-ID: <C0FoDG.1I1@sci.kun.nl>
>Sender: news@sci.kun.nl (News owner)
>Nntp-Posting-Host: sickbock.sci.kun.nl
>Organization: University of Nijmegen, The Netherlands
>Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 13:05:39 GMT
>Lines: 6

>   I have got the Cyrus One amplifier and would like to buy either Cyrus 782 
>or Mission 763i loudspeakers. Can anybody give an advice? Other suggestions?
>Thank you in advance.
>                                                              Victor
>                                                     sokovin@sci.kun.nl
> 
Hi,

I've seen Tannoy sixes (say 605's) partner a Cyrus *very* successfully.

Cheers

Gavin
From: grayt@Software.Mitel.COM (Tom Gray)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: How can different digital cables sound different?
Date: 11 Jan 93 18:43:42 GMT
Organization: Mitel. Kanata (Ontario). Canada.

In article <184819@pyramid.pyramid.com> lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell) writes:
}In article <shetline-060193111942@128.89.19.85> shetline@bbn.com (Kerry Shetline) writes:
}>
}>Not understanding the technology makes it easier. There is much more room
}>for "magic" that way. But sometimes I think partial understanding is even
}>more dangerous. Yes, sometimes a 0 that is supposed to be 0 volts is 0.2
}>volts, and a 1 that is supposed to be 5 volts is only 4.7, but that does
}>not change the way digital devices respond to the information. Bits are
}>still bits. This is the kind of thing, however, that some people will try
}>to attribute nonsensical claims to.
}>
}    Yeah, a LITTLE knowledge can be really dangerous.  Particularly
}    when you expose it on the 'net.
}
}    Most commercial circuits I know of a 0 is at least 0.7 volts or
}    more...as that's the saturation of silicon.  And if things were
}    as perfect as you said, and there is no such thing as rise time
}    problems, then all those Schmitt triggers and stuff must be due
}    to hallucinations, right?
}
}    And modems REALLY don't need Trellis coding...group delay
}    distortion is just a myth after all.  And manchester coding is
}    really unnecessary, as after all everybody knows that a 1 is a 1
}    and a 0 is a 0.  And PLL clock recovery circuits are a total waste
}    of time as they are never necessary.  And jitter buffers are a
}    marketing gimmick designed to raise the price of LAN cards.
}
}    Gimme a break.  And PLEASE don't design any LAN interfaces....


I've designed DAC's and ADC's, I've designed Schmitt triggers, capacitive
peaking circuits and Manchester decoders, PLL's ,jitter buffer, clock
extracters, Manchester decoders, Manchester encoder's, clock and frame
synchronizers.

It isn't brain surgery. 

You still didn't address the point that a validly decoded 1 ia a 1 and a validly
decoded 0 is a 0. You can estimate the chances of invalidly deciding a bit
by a simple BER calculation.

Now just what is your point?


(Incidentally for TTL the MAXIMUM LOW OUTPUT VOLTAGE is .7v (54 family))



-- 
i.sinature
From: rouben@math9.math.umbc.edu (Rouben Rostamian)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: A receiver as a wake-up alarm?  (SUMMARY)
Date: 8 Jan 1993 22:58:58 GMT
Organization: Department of Mathematics
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: math9.math.umbc.edu
Originator: rouben@math9.math.umbc.edu

In a recent message to this newgroup I wrote:

> Is it possible to use a stereo receiver as a wake-up alarm?
> 
> I have a Nikko receiver with remote control in my bedroom.  It seems
> not too far-fetched to imagine a generic, inexpensive bedside alarm
> clock that will send a signal to the receiver to turn it on at a preset
> time.  Does such a device exist, or did I just give away an idea that
> will be the invention of the decade? :-)

Many people responded -- some via email and some via the net.
The answers were of two distinct types, perhaps due to some
vagueness in my original message.

One group of responses suggested plugging the receiver into an outlet
equipped with a timer.  Electric timers, generally inexpensive devices
available at hardware stores, are often used to turn house lights on an
off at preset intervals.

Three drawbacks of such timers were also mentioned:
a) Turning the receiver off at the electrical outlet level
may cause it to lose its presets.
b) Some receivers may not turn on just by applying electrical power
to them.  The on/off button must be pressed to activate the internal
relays.
c) These timers are generally not very accurate.  In some mechanical
models the gradation of their timing dials can be as coarse as 15 minute
intervals.  Some electronic versions are more accurate, although they cost
more.

The other group of responses recommended a universal remote-control
device called CP8 made by Memorex and sold in the Radio Shack stores.
It interacts with the receiver via the infrared port like any
remote-controller, but it also has a built-in clock and programmable
memory, so that it can send the on (or off) signal at a prescribed
time.

I called two local Radio Shack stores.  They used to carry the CP8, 
but do not carry it anymore.  I found the CP8 in my J&R Music World
mail-order catalogue, listed for $79.95.  Here is what the catalogue
says:
Memorex CP8-Turbo Universal Remote
o replaces up to 8 A/V remotes
o LCD display w/real-time clock
o Stores up to 156 command codes

One respondent, who recommended the devise, also cautioned that
changing the wake-up time involves re-programming the unit, so it
may not be as easy to use as an alarm clock.

Many thanks to everyone who responded to my message.

--
Rouben Rostamian
From: roth@3d.enet.dec.com (Jim Roth)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: How do 1 bit (or bitstream) CD's work?
Date: 11 Jan 93 22:13:43 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


>Edward Walsh (edw@boi.hp.com) wrote:
>: So how do 1 bit players work? So far I have only received vague answers.
>: It doesn't appear to be in the FAQ, and I have missed any answers about
>: this that might have been given in this group. So far the only insight I
>: have is that it might involve pulse width modulation and a counter. This
>: still doesn't answer what would be done with the pulse width modulated
>: signal to get audio out, or how the pulse width is determined in the
>: first place. A counter would have to have a mighty speedy clock. Thanks
>: for any insights.

If you've ever seen dithered bitonal pictures on a PC (particularly the
type where diffusive dither sometimes known as Floyd-Steinberg dither),
you can see a visual analog of how one bit D-A converters work.
Here you have *one bit* of video resolution per pixel, and yet one
sees a clear rendition of a gray scale image.

Why does it work so well?  Floyd Steinberg dither takes the error
comitted by quantizing each pixel and distributes it to neighborhing
pixels alongside and below (to be processed later in the scanning.)
The error is dispersed into spatial frequencies that are less visible.

Single bit converters do much the same thing.  The audio samples off
the CD are numerically interpolated (oversampled) and fed to a one bit
DAC.  The error comitted in the DAC is numerically fed back in the manner
of a recursive IIR filter so as to disperse the error out of the audio band.

The basic idea is not deep or esoteric, but precise analysis and
implementation does require some subtle reasoning and theory.

Note that the very first commercial CD players from Phillips used
a 14 bit DAC with 4X oversampling and this kind of dither to achieve
near 16 bit performance.  The idea wasn't new then either, it goes back
to the earliest attempts to digitize signals.

- Jim
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: garyp@rmtc.paramax.com (Gary Palangian [RMTC/ISP])
Subject: Contact Information
Keywords: Polk, Paradigm
Organization: Paramax Systems
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 17:12:24 GMT


Does anybody have telephone numbers for Polk and/or Paradigm?

I have an 800 for Polk but it is a recording.  I want to talk
to a real human being.

I can't find Paradigm locally and want to talk to Paradigm to see
if they have a dealer in my area (Denver, CO).


Thanks,


Gary P.

Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: eilifl@dhhalden.no (EILIF LIEN)
Subject: Walkman with Dolby C ???
Organization: Ostfold College
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 15:52:17 GMT

Well, I don't want to carry all my CDs around, so, therefore I'm looking for 
a *good* sounding walkman, original or not.

But.....all of them seem to have Dolby B only.  So what do I do when I 
have done all my taping with C ?  Ngh!

Well, is there any walkman at USD 100 to 300 equipped with Dolby C ?

If you know anything, please Reply. Thanks!

Eilif Lien             *_/__/__/__/  *_/  __/        __/  *_/__/__/__/
<eilifl@dhhalden.no>  __/           __/  __/        __/  __/
Student at Ostfold   __/__/__/     __/  __/        __/  __/__/__/
College, dept. of   __/           __/  __/        __/  __/
computer science   __/__/__/__/  __/  *_/__/__/  __/  __/
From: cj164@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jeff Ryan Glover)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: audio amplifier book
Date: 8 Jan 1993 16:00:20 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: cj164@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jeff Ryan Glover)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Does anyone know of a book that goes into the details of audio amplifier
design?  I've looked in book stores and libraries with no luck thus far.  
I'm specifically interested in class B (and class AB - I don't even really 
understand what a class AB amp is).  Maybe there's some FAQs out there too?

Thanks

-- 
----------------------
Jeff Glover					ME?
cj164@cleveland.freenet.edu                  	 P.C.?
eaeu188@orion.oac.uci.edu			    NNNOOOTTTT!!!!
From: todd@csrnxt1.ae.utexas.edu (Todd W. Thompson)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Kef speakers
Date: 6 Jan 93 09:21:04 GMT

I had a chance to listen to some Kef Q-90 speakers recently, and I liked
what I heard. However, I haven't had the chance to listen around as much
as perhaps I would've liked. These speakers are demos, and the dealer
will give the pair to me for $750. He says they normally retail around $1000.

A) Is this a good deal?

B) Are these good speakers for the money? More to the point, if you've
listened to them, would YOU buy them for this money? Please reply
somewhat soon, if you don't mind.

C) In the grand ranking of speakers, where would the Kef's be placed?

Thanks for any help!

Todd