From: chrisl@joplin.wri.com (Chris LaReau)
Subject: Re: Coaster Cloning (was Re: Six Flags Policies)
Organization: Wolfram Research, Inc.
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 21:54:36 GMT

In <1992Oct15.232651.29572@news.media.mit.edu> maglione@media.mit.edu (Tom Maglione) writes:

>In article <1992Oct15.150438.17055@pmafire.inel.gov> geoff@pmafire.inel.gov (Geoff Allen) writes:
>>Several of Traver's coasters look pretty darn similar to me.  Why wasn't
>>that a problem?  And why aren't all those old coasters named ``Cyclone''
>>or ``Bobs'' or ``Airplane'' a problem? ;^)

>Whoa, hold on here, Geoff. You need to go back to (or buy) the Legends of
>Terror book from ACE about Harry Guy Traver, and maybe even go looking
>through old patents (I did once for a term paper at MIT). You will find
>that Traver built only wooden coasters, albeit some had steel support
>structures, but they all sported wooden tracking. Every wooden coaster that
>was ever built anywhere has been unique, even if based on some common
>design. This is particularly true for Traver designs; you will note that
>in Legends of Terror, each Traver Cyclone, for example, is prefaced by its
>location (e.g.Revere Beach Cyclone, Crystal Beach Cyclone, etc.) because
>each Cyclone was different, even though it was based on common design
>elements. If anything, I view the usage of same names by Traver as a
>matter of pride and marketing: if you had ridden a Traver Cyclone anywhere
>you knew what you were in for. I know of multiple Cyclone coasters, and
>I can think of at least two Bobs coasters, but I don't know of more than
>one Aeroplane (this is the correct spelling) coaster. Also, I believe that
>the Aeroplane coaster from Rye Playland was actually designed by Prior and
>Church, and if Traver was involved with it, it was probably as the
>construction contractor.

Traver Engineering (the company, not necessarily Harry Traver personally;
see the Cartmell interview of Harry Davis excerpt in the Traver book)
_designed_ very few coasters as such (but built very many more).
From (probably faulty) memory:

Jazz Railway (was this around Washington DC I think?)
Oaks Park Zip
Philadelphia Sesquicentennial Cyclone (same ride moved to Chicago)
Crystal Beach Cyclone
Palisades Park Cyclone
Revere Beach Lightning

The Jazz Railway, Zip, and the first two Cyclones were unique rides. The
last two were identical layouts to the Crystal Beach ride. I
believe Traver engineering also designed a strange coaster around a park
in France or some European country, and possibly a "lost" ride or two.
The other coasters built by Traver were Fred Church (Prior & Church),
designs, which to me makes them Church coasters rather than Traver coasters.
The Revere Beach Cyclone, Riverview Bobs, Cyclone Racer, Mission Beach
Giant Dipper, and many others fall into this category. After all, we don't
attribute the Screamin' Eagle to Frontier Construction, do we? It's a John
Allen design, but Frontier built it. I really wish we could get away from
calling every coaster that Traver had anything to do with a Traver ride.

Tom: wooden coasters are inherently unique even if built to the same design?
I assume that by implication steel coasters are not? I don't buy it.
The Traver "triplets", i.e. Crystal Beach Cyclone, Revere Beach Lightning,
and Palisades Cyclone were identical. According to Rich Munch, the Palisades
ride had to be built in a somewhat tighter space, and was accordingly
a bit more severe than the others because of shorter radii for curves, but
was for all intents and purposes the same design. In your example, you
are quite correct though, since Crystal Beach was a Traver design, and
Revere Beach was a Church design, with markedly different characteristics. 

Also, (again according to Munch) all of Fred Church's designs had the
generic name "Bobs". What the park called the ride was up to them.
Three Bobs that I know of were Riverview, Manchester, and Coney Island;
the Coney ride was later renamed the Tornado. I'm sure there must have
been more Bobs than that.

Chris

-----------------------
Chris LaReau  chrisl@wri.com  (working for, not speaking for) ...
Wolfram Research Inc. 100 Trade Centre Dr. Champaign IL 61820  (217) 398-0700
"Would it save you a lot of time if I just gave up and went mad now?" - A. Dent