HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sherwani@sol.cs.wmich.edu (Naveed Sherwani)
Subject: Re: Contradictions of (so called) upholders of rights
Summary: I am not indifferent, I am a logician -- so I am just differnt : -)
Organization: Western Michigan Univ. Comp. Sci. Dept.
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 20:51:32 GMT

In article <l97l5vINNp34@pageboy.cs.utexas.edu>, hyder@cs.utexas.edu (Syed Irfan Hyder) writes:
> In article <1992Aug19.234503.2531@sol.cs.wmich.edu> sherwani@sol.cs.wmich.edu (Naveed Sherwani) writes:
> >
> Moral of the three novels:
> 
> If one is bestowed with knowledge, intelligence, and opportunity,
> and if he doesn't use them to obliterate injustice in this world,
> then his indifference is construed by history as escape. For such
> escapes into indifference, neutrality and apathy, history never
> forgives. The missed opportunities always come back to haunt.
> Such people are then made an example for those who come later.
> They are an example and a warning for us to shape up and act. If not,
> then shortly we will be made yet another example!!!!!!!!!!
>

I agree, we must fight to remove injustice. I have always voiced
my opinion in favor of jumadars of Pakistan, females in Islam,
minorites, hungry people of somalia, etc.

> >
> >In other words, your ultimate truth stops, where my nose starts,
> >whatever your ultimate truth is, could be total trash for me.
> >In a world, where everyone is looking for ultimate truth and acting
> >upon and naking others follow it, would be a terrible world.
> >As a result, we propose a differnt model, which allows you to
> >find you ultimate truth but you cannot not impose it on others,
> >until they want it without pressure.
> >If you feel that ultimate truth is unique, then your message should
> >be so powerful, that poeple will folk to you, you dont have use force.
> 
> I agree will all the above. But the question remains that all the
> above logic "should not" make us "indifferent", apathetic and
> listless for injustices happenings around us. There are times when
> there is no doubt about an "injustice" being done __ for instance
> today in Bosnia. However, in such times, rationalizing like
> "national security etc" should not make us indifferent, which
> in turns appears as aiding the tyrant and the cruels. A situation
> so clearly apparent to us today vis-a-vis bosnia and serbia.
> 
> 
I am not indiffernt, I am trying to establish some rights for
females. We have to fight that injustice. But you see we must do
that by educating people and telling them why it is injustice
not by using laws of one particular god thay may not care about.


regards,

-Naveed
From: ahussain@prism.poly.edu (Arshad Hussain)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: DESI BOYS & ARAB WOMEN
Date: 14 Aug 92 21:57:23 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Polytechnic University, New York

>From: msardar@digi.lonestar.org (Mohammed Tariq Sardar)
>Subject: DESI BOYS & ARAB WOMEN
>Date: 14 Aug 92 16:31:05 GMT

>A particular story which i found disturbing  was treatment
>of young DESI servants by ARAB women. These young servants are forced in 
>to sexual relationship with elder women against their wishes.

Sardar Ji,

They are having good time. For Sheiks and Shekhanis, non-Arab non-White
is slave(male/female).

Arshad
From: memon@acsu.buffalo.edu (Naveed Siraj Memon)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: aik baat bataaiN
Date: 23 Aug 92 07:45:56 GMT
Organization: UB

From: mughal@iago.caltech.edu (ASIM M MUGHAL)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Multiple wives

     >Hmm... what way is it different than how a man loves? He is willing to
     >give up *everthing* for her!
     >{play Mr. Bolton's song 'When the man loves a woman'}


Make that Percy Sledge, who originally did the song way back when we was fab :)
BTW, the guy has made his name by singing two songs that are still good to 
listen to in their original version. The second one is "sittin' at the dock
of the bay, wasting time" by Otis Redding.


Well I deleted most of what arguments were tossed back and forth 
between all the netters involved but reminds of a Pakistani guy who was
going out with a Jewish girl. He was giving me a hard time about
my arranged engagement. So I asked him if he was willing to give up his
family. The answer I guess should be obvious. I dont know why I posted
this comment, maybe the word *everything* seemed too simplifying.


Top-10 songs are made for their commercial value,  any hint 
that suggests that they represent social reality, is purely co-incidental :)



Naveed
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: shaukat@pk.army.us ( "Mohd. Shaukat ")
Subject: Re: SOUTH ASIAN SPORTS ACHIEVEMENTS
Organization: Pakistan Army, US Consulate
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 18:57:55 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.021132.3838@leland.Stanford.EDU>  
usman@leland.Stanford.EDU (Usman Hameed) writes:
> 
> As a return gesture Indian world class rifle shooters are imparting
> training to Pakistani athletes at the Siachin Training Complex.
> Unfortunately the casualty rate is unacceptably high even for
> preliminary events, and some recruits have been criticized in
> the local media as being army jawans.  Who knows, maybe
> the lure of fame & lucrative Reebok/Nike contracts may focus
> these people away from doggy fraternization towards the
> true Olympic spirit of peace, harmony, and the thrill of competition.
> 
> Usman
> 

Dear Mr. Hameed,
	I was shocked to see your article dated August 12th.  You have reduced  
the massacre of a lot of people to a joke.  This is not funny.  People are  
dying every day, losing their legs and arms.  How would you like to go through  
life with one less arm.  Just 'cause you are sitting in a nice cold room typing  
on a stupid computer does not mean that you should forget your brothers who are  
out in the sun saving your life.  As a devout Moslem, that I know you are, you  
must either go fight with them or sit and pray for them.  We still need more  
jawans to protect our homeland.  With the grace of God, we shall overcome all  
odds.  The time is right now.  Let us all Moslems join hands and defeat the  
evil empire.  Just like Luke Skywalker in Star Wars or was it Return of the  
Jedi.  Heck, I don't remember.  So as I was saying, you,Mr. Hameed, should  
enroll in Pakistan Army.  As a matter of fact, I have sent your name to the  
recruitment agency.  You can expect a call soon.  If you are lucky, you will  
become a hero and then we'll have another holiday on ... what's your birthday  
anyway?   Otherwise I'd like to get your car and maybe your stereo, please.  So  
how is Ithaca? Rafay and I are planning to play cricket with Captan Jee this  
Saturday.  We just need you but I guess you can't fly here just to play cricket  
with Captan Jee.

Mohd. Shaukat
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: asim@pak.sps.mot.com (Asim Omair)
Subject: Re: It rains in Karachi
Organization: Motorola Inc., Austin Tx.
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 14:30:58 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.193724.26724@newton.ccs.tuns.ca> jamalin@newton.ccs.tuns.ca (Nadeem Jamali) writes:
>Now about Karachi rains.. according to what appears to be a "slightly"
>exaggerated news I got just now, about 6 (six) inches of rain
>fell in Karachi (yesterday??). ........ Telephone lines are in a 
>mess. I got a line after trying some 15 times, and got disconnected 
>after 2 minutes. Tried again.. got a line and again lost it. Anyway,
>it seems this rain has been worst since '77. Around Agha's (Clifton),
>water was some 4 feet high (I hope this is the exaggerated part). About
>500 cars got stuck. Some 27 people have died. Minister for religious
>affairs has accused Benazir of blasphemy.. ooops.. anyway.. that's
>all for now.
>Nadeem Jamali                                     jamalin@newton.ccs.tuns.ca
>School of Computer Science			  
>Technical University of Nova Scotia		  (902)420-7882  

I talked to my brother last night and he told me that he left his car at work
and came back home on a mini-bus, since he didn't want to take the risk of
getting his car stuck, as there were water puddles everywhere (especially at
roundabouts). He was able to get his car the next day. By the way, I was able
to get the call through the first time, but there was some interference in the
line.
*****************************************************************************
SPORT     FAVOURITE TEAM/PLAYER                    |  asim@pak.sps.mot.com  |
-----     ---------------------                    | 5413 Manchaca Rd. #223 |
CRICKET : Pakistan/Imran Khan                      |    Austin, TX 78745    |
SOCCER  : Manchester United (England)/Bryan Robson |TEL#(512)-444-7076 :home|
TENNIS  : Stefan Edberg and Steffi Graf            |    (512)-891-8342 :work|
*****************************************************************************
From: hyder@cs.utexas.edu (Syed Irfan Hyder)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Contradictions of (so called) upholders of rights
Date: 17 Aug 92 15:17:35 GMT
Organization: U Texas Dept of Computer Sciences, Austin TX
NNTP-Posting-Host: pageboy.cs.utexas.edu

In article <1992Aug13.214419.3588@sol.cs.wmich.edu> sherwani@sol.cs.wmich.edu (Naveed Sherwani) writes:
>
>Same is true for polygamy laws in Islam, these are laws made by MEN
>to be imposed on WOMEN, if women had some say in this, I would 
>like to see how these laws would look like.
>

Well, the fear exhibited by the so called upholders of women rights
doesn't subscribe to the above. The way dictatorships are protected
in the Gulf. The way Algeria's elections were looked down upon,
the way right of the people to vote in the Muslim countries is
denied by explicit USA and the Western support to those countries 
is there for all to see. 

I am all for you. Just give the right of women to decide for themselves
and you will see that women in Muslim countries will overwhelmingly
select Islam. Don't leave people like Saddam in their place so 
that the Shias in the south and the Kurds in the north do not
elect Islam. Also stop aiding Shahs, sheiks, dictators like 
Sadaat and Muabarak and Zia and you will be pleasently suprsiesed
with the choice of the Muslim women.

P.S.

Most women who are recent converts to veil and Islam are in fact
educated __ most often from Western countries.

Muslim women are pretty knowledgeble about the so called 
rights of women in the West to choose for themselves what
is right for them.
From: rkrithiv@SEDONA.INTEL.COM (Ramamurthy Krithivas)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Does August 14 mean anything to us (INDIANS) ?? ==NO==
Date: 20 Aug 92 19:12:09 GMT



From: waseems@sco.COM (Waseem Siddiqi)
>India should start by treating it's own Muslims properly. Only then, the
>Pakistanis will stop seeing India as a Hindu daemon and may begin to
>think of it as a brother-in-history.

  Stopping the alleged/supposed bad treatement to muslims in India 
  is not going to stop Pakistanis misperception of India. 

  Nor is anything going to enlighten Pakistanis about the greatness 
  of India. 

  Pakistanis can have a better vision of India, only if they change 
  their poisoned HISTORY TEXT BOOKS. 

  Till then Pakistan is not going to see India as a "brother-in-history"
  nor a "sister-in-trignomentry".

  But suffice to mention, saare jehan se accha yeh hindustan hamaara. 
  We care the DAMN if any one else disagrees. 

Krithi. 

  We => Many/Most Indians.
From: rk@NMS.HLS.COM (S Ramakrishnan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Waseem Siddiqui (waseems@sco.COM), SCO Inc., Canada.
Date: 23 Aug 92 08:47:56 GMT
Organization: Hughes LAN Systems Inc., Mountain View, Ca

[ Sorry to have to post this here; I couldn't send this across by email ]

Waseem:

I 've been trying to reach you by email (waseems@sco.com) unsuccessfully
for a number of days now. Your UUCP address didn't work either.
Thanx for your letter. Do you have an alternative email address where 
I may write you ? 

Thanx.

---
S Ramakrishnan, Hughes LAN Systems Inc., Mountain View, Ca
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: arkay@leland.Stanford.EDU (Abdur Khan)
Subject: Re: FZ, a legend leaving us...
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 23:09:57 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.124232.30462@davidsys.com> merchant@davidsys.com (Rukhsana Merchant) writes:
>
>	The Rumor is true......
>
>Farrukh Zafar is returning to God's country...  A legend zipping
>through our lives.....   He will be missed!!!
>
>I, among other SCPians, male and femails ;-), wish him all the best!!
>
>-Rukhsana [beyond words....] Merchant

Is it true, is he actually leaving us, many of us will not belive this
until we see the exhaust fumes of his plane as it takes off.

obviously we will need another commentator and chaeuffer(sp) for LA trips

sahibzada rafay khan[ topfull or topless ?????????? lets take a poll]
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: cs461a09@umbc5.umbc.edu (cs461a09)
Subject: Contradications in Quran move your discussion in other place.
Organization: University of Maryland Baltimore Campus, Academic Computing Services
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 23:38:54 GMT



		Subject: Re: Contradictions in Quaran
		=====================================

==============================================================================
>Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.indian
							^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>From: ahmed-shakil@CS.YALE.EDU (Shakil Waiz Ahmed)
>Subject: Re: Contradictions in Quaran
================================================================================

	This topic is discussed for a long time here in Sco.culture.indian.  
I think a religiou book
, object, priest or related to it should be given proper respect.

	Religious discussions have to be discussed on proper platform so
no ones religious beliefs etc. are hurt.  TO EXPRESS THIS FEELING
WE HAVE A NEWSGROUP CALLED

			SOC.RELIGION.ISLAM

WHERE ISLAM IS EVERYTHING.  In USA every one has right to preach and discuss
there believes BUT WHO HAS RIGHT TO DISCUSS in CULTURE>INDIAN.

=====================
Now that bastards have not learned anything so far I will be a bastard too.

Hey folks I HAVE A PET PIG CALLED 420 he is REAL CUTE. I LOVE PIG
I LOVE MY PIG.
PLEASE HAVE A PIG AS YOUR PET.
Some times Americans have pet as pig they eat pig.
I LIKE TO EAT PIG IT IS A CLEAN ANIMAL TO EAT.
I LOVE PIG SOMETIMES IT PISSES ON some religious books too.
BYE.
=======
	take your religiou discussion to a religious platform and
not cultural platform and spoil religious sanity.

IF YOU GUYS REALY LOVE YOUR RELIGION TAKE IT TO SACRIED PLATFORM.

BYE.
From: ahussain@prism.poly.edu (Arshad Hussain)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Muslim gays and lesbians
Date: 23 Aug 92 14:39:10 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Polytechnic University, New York


>From: nazir@sw.stratus.com (Meer Nazir)
>Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
>Subject: GAYS in our society

>In article <1992Aug21.151218.23727@prism.poly.edu>, ahussain@prism.poly.edu (Arshad Hussain) writes:
>> [deleted]

>Do not go far away just read "YADOON Ki BARAT" by Josh Malih Abadi. This book
>is an autobiography of Josh, he himself right about his family home and
>Luchnow culture. About his college days and extra extra. I do not have the
>copy here in states You can read this book and find above topic. 

Oh!! I forgot when I wrote this post. I have read it.  The chapter regarding 
this issue is 'May-ray Ishq'. 

Thank-you for reminding me.

>MEER NAZIR

Arshad
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: mirza@vxcrna.cern.ch (MIRZA,I./EP)
Subject: Re: Multiple wives
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: European Organization for Nuclear Research, CERN
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 09:06:00 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.153127.1@mcclb0.med.nyu.edu>, ali@mcclb0.med.nyu.edu writes...
>In article <1992Aug20.031222.4238@cco.caltech.edu>, asim@irk.ugcs.caltech.edu (A. M. Mughal) writes:
>> In article <1992Aug19.183759.1@mcclb0.med.nyu.edu> ali@mcclb0.med.nyu.edu writes:
>>>In article <1992Aug18.101149.30461@davidsys.com>, merchant@davidsys.com (Rukhsana Merchant) writes:
>>>> 
>>>> 	The point of Islam allowing multiple wives is not an issue that
>>>> .....................
>>>> Islam is the exception.
>>>
>>>  You're right there * were* definite reasons for allowing multiple
>>>  ......
>>>acquiring another wife.  No doubt about it!!
>>>jahanara  
>>>> 
>>>> -Rukhsana Merchant
>> 
>> Asim Mughal
>> [Standard Disclaimer]

     Just to remind all of you two things. First there is no special condition
     mentioned in Quran for having more than a single wife beside "justice"
     whose interpretation is left entirely on the man himself. 
     Second the limit is only on wifes. There is no limit on "Laundees"
     or mistresses .

Mirza Ilyas
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: obaid@ecf.toronto.edu
Subject: Re: Contradictions in Secularism
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility
Distribution: world 
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 20:24:35 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.185857.766@sol.cs.wmich.edu> sherwani@sol.cs.wmich.edu (Naveed Sherwani) writes:
>
>
>[ Stuff deleted] 
>
>Hyder Bhai:
>
>Since no  one but me and you seem to be interested in 
>
>   Prophets, crooks, mangoes, secularism, etc.
>
>I suggest we move this disscussion to email, unless, we
>see any reason to waste the bandwidth.
>
>regards,
>
>-Naveed

There are some of us who read silently.....well at least I do.

Please don't move it off the net, if you can help it....I am learning 
a lot.

Thanx

NadeemS

Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.indian
From: memon@acsu.buffalo.edu (Naveed Siraj Memon)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re liberals in Pakistan
Date: 15 Aug 92 15:03:54 GMT
Organization: UB

From: sherwani@sol.cs.wmich.edu (Naveed Sherwani)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan

>Liberalism died in Pakistan in late seventies. For some reason,
>which I dont understand, Pakistan is increasingly becoming
>conservative. When the whole world is waking up and joining
>the global village, Pakistan is going back into a shell.

The world is waking up to join the Right my dear sir. There was no substantial 
change by the declaration that a New World Order will re-unite the people to
fight injustice. Somalian drought, Ethnic cleansing, appointment of conservative
supreme court judges, hey I see the entire world going to the right.


>Now Pakistan has no place for its liberal citizens. Freedom
>of expression is limited by religious considerations and freedom
>of thought is limited by vision which does not go beyond our national religion. 

And who will change the status quo. That is a more relevant question. My plane
leaves September 6 btw.:) Survival takes a higher priority than calling for
social justice in Pakistan, otherwise don't tell me that you and I and our
army of liberals could not have achieved any thing in Pakistan. Oh well, 
maybe another lifetime.


>regards,

>-Naveed


"You got to speak out against the madness"
"You got to speak your mind, if you dare"        
"And it appears to be a long time before the dawn".
                                                  
     					     Crosby Stills Nash and Young (71)



chota Naveed.


PS: distribution restricted to SCP for some obvious irrelevance to SCI/SCB.




Naveed
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: mughal@iago.caltech.edu (ASIM M MUGHAL)
Subject: Re: Inquiry about (Allama?) Mohammad Asad.
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Originator: Mughal@Romeo.Caltech.Edu (Asim Mughal -Moderator)
Organization: California Institute of Technology
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 16:08:00 GMT


In article <26442@life.ai.mit.edu>, smst71!goofy.onf (Omar Farooq) writes...
> 
>        I would appreciate if someone could inform me about the latter life
>of Mohammad Asad,i.e. after his conversion to Al-Islam especially his last
>days in Gibraltar.I would really appreciate this information.
>        If you know of any book which addresses this question ,please let
>me know.
>-----------------
>Around what era was Mohd. Asad around? or is around!

	I remember there was a nice long article on Mohammad Assad, his life
        and his books on the network. It was posted on S.R.I about month or
        so ago and it also appeared in a newsletter over the network. If you
        send an message to the editors of the newsletter at MUSLIMS @ ASUACAD
        they might be able to pull it out for you. Or if you are familiar
        with LISTSERVs you may  want to retrieve it directly from
        LISTSERV@ASUACAD.

        Regards,

        Asim Mughal
        [Standard Disclaimer]
> 
> 
> 
>=========================================================================
>Omar Farooq                               INTERNET:   omar.farooq@att.com
>FAX: 908.805.7230                              ATT:   somerset!smst71!onf
>OFF: 908.805.2458                            LOCAL:   onf
>=========================================================================
>
From: khalid@bu-bio.bu.edu (Rasheed A. Khalid)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Request for Bosnians
Date: 19 Aug 92 18:10:36 GMT
Organization: Biology Department, Boston University, Boston, MA, USA

I do not think that the self appointed world leader (USA) should
be blamed for any sufferings that Muslims are going through.  Take
Afghanistan alone as the most recent example of the unwise path
Muslims are following.  Who are they fighting against.  As long as
there is no unity among the Muslims in the world, no one but ourselves
should be blamed.  We need to educate our people and we need strong
leaders with the ability to face authorities or this world and who
fear none but Allah.  Saddam would have been a good one if fearlessness
were the only virtue involved.  But there is more to it -- some common
sense and fear of God is needed too.  Apparently, he has no fear,
even of God.
More later.
Regards,
Rasheed.
From: sl57h@cc.usu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: DESI JOKES (adults) #7
Date: 22 Aug 92 17:24:12 GMT
Organization: Utah State University


     What type of
d sardar you are? Don't you know punjabi's don't use this type of
language (e.g. they don't use "salaa" in their language). The joke is actually
abou
From: azam@databusters.ag.ndsu.NoDak.edu (syed azam)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Immegration Attorneys in Bay Area ?
Date: 18 Aug 92 20:53:45 GMT


Hi! I am looking for the names of qualified and experienced  
immegration attorneys in San Jose-Santa Clara area. If any one of you  
have personal experiance or knowledge, please send me their phone  
numbers via e-mail. 

I appreciate any help.

Sincerely,

Syed Azam

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Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan