From: rafatm@sage.cc.purdue.edu (unknown)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Re: On Rafats view of Hindu society
Date: 15 Dec 92 22:51:46 GMT
Organization: Purdue University

In article <1992Dec15.212950.13969@watson.ibm.com>, kundu@watson.ibm.com (Sandip Kundu) writes:
> >   As to your wanting proof that converting to Islam will bring equality, I  
> >suggest that you read up on Islam simply for educational purposes. You will
> >find that Islam has always preached equality among men. A man who was at
> >the bottom of the social, political, and economical heirarchy simply due
> >to some idiotic caste system would have nothing to lose by converting to
> >Islam (or in fact even Christianity and Judaism). 
> >
> >regards 
> >Rafat Sadiq    
> 
> Rafat,
> 
> I am not an expert on Hinduism. To different people it means
> different things anyway. The foundation of Hinduism is believed
> to be on Vedas. I have not read Vedas. However, I was brought 
> up to believe that casteism is not prescribed by Vedas. 
> Casteism was documented and prescribed by a book called "MonuSanhita".
> MonuSanhita is not considered to be a valid interpretation of
> anything. 
> 
> I have read the new testament. I have not come across any
> evidence to justify that "the sun goes around the earth" or
> that the "earth is flat". However, we all know that in the 
> medieval period, in the name of bible, the clergy chastised
> and ostracized anyone who disagreed with their
> interpretation. The point here is that what is practiced need
> not necessarily be what is preached.
> 
> Now, let us turn to Hinduism. By referring to casteism, which is
> still practised by many Hindus, you claimed elsewhere that a
> just society can not be based on Hinduism. By that statement
> you are implying one or both of the following :
> 
> 1. there is sanction for casteism in Vedas.
> 2. those practising Hinduism today are incapable of reforming/
> cleansing the malady of casteism from the present society.
> 
> Why do not you spell out which of the above you are saying. If
> you are saying 1) you have to provide reference. If you are
> saying 2) you have to elaborate on your reasoning process.
> 
   I did not condemn Hinduism in general. I merely stated that the I am
against the caste system. I make no aoplogies for that. But if anyone
read my article and though that I was condemning Hinduism as a whole,
mea culpa.
> FYI, casteism, as it is practiced today only affects marriages and
> not professions. Not everyone uses a caste denomination to
> guide marriages, I did not. Since marriage is a matter of
> personal choice I am not even sure if it can be branded 
> evil. For example SWM seeking SWF is not considered racist by
> most people.
> 
    The caste system is a delciate issue. The vast majority of my Hindu
friends are vehemently against it. What I was trying to say is that during
that period in time, the caste system was rigidly enforced. By converting to
Islam, or in fact any relgion without a caste system, one would have nothing
to lose and everything to gain.i
mos
> I have witnessed such explicit preferences among Muslim
> community also. I have seen advertisements where a Syed is
> seeking a Syed (no mention of economic and educational
> preferences, sole preference Syed). Is that casteism in veil ?
> 
   I don`t know if you could call that casteism as well. However I will
say that just as you do not care about the caste system, I do not think that
such practices are correct. My personal opinion and nothing else. 
> If you want a fair comparison of Hindu and Muslim societies,
> either compare what is preached, or compare what is practiced.
> Do not confuse both as you have done here.
   What do you mean by this. I am not making a value judgement as to which 
religion is better. My point is that by converting to a religion without a 
caste system, a member of the schedule caste can only benefit from it. 
Perhaps he may not personaly, but at least his children will have the chance
to better themseleves and not have to live for the rest of their lives, branded
with the sign of an untouchable.

> 
> Muslim Honey gatherers in Sundarban areas worship "BonDebi" before
> embarking on a trip to jungle areas. Do they know what they are
> practicing ? If they don't, is it just to conclude that they
> converted to Islam after understanding the implications of
> being a Muslim ? Again if not, did they do it to raise their
   If what you have mentioned is true, the honey gatherers are not
Muslims as they have violated the first pillar of Islam. 

> status in society ? They continue to be exploited by the
> same family they were selling to before (typically Hindu). 
> Since they have not raised their social, economic or political 
> status by conversion, it opens up a lot of room for other motives 
> for conversion. 

regards
Rafat Sadiq
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh