HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: johnson@swings.enet.dec.com (Dennis M. Johnson)
Subject: Re: Is personality visible through email
Reply-To: johnson@swings.enet.dec.com (Dennis M. Johnson)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 15:08:25 GMT


In article <1992Dec18.141641.27714@dsg.cs.tcd.ie>, cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Ciaran McHale) writes:
|>Newsgroups: soc.bi
|>Path: e2big.mko.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!news.crl.dec.com!deccrl!caen!uunet!mcsun!ieunet!tcdcs!maths.tcd.ie!longvalley!cjmchale
|>From: cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Ciaran McHale)
|>Subject: Is personality visible through email
|>Message-ID: <1992Dec18.141641.27714@dsg.cs.tcd.ie>
|>Organization: DSG, Dept. of Computer Science, Trinity College Dublin
|>References: <1gltqpINNhsr@agate.berkeley.edu>
|>Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 09:16:41 EST
|>Lines: 19
|>
|>In <1gltqpINNhsr@agate.berkeley.edu> mlloyd@ocf.berkeley.edu (M. Lloyd) writes:
|>>[...] I just want to observe that I am still amazed at the
|>>extent to which email can convey personality to a careful reader.  [...]
|>>It's my HO that people project more of themselves than they think they
|>>do, in the main. [...] I'm equally amused by misreads, I should add.
|>
|>When I met some soc.bi folk at the London Pride march and then up in
|>Edinburgh, several people were surprised that I was not much like I
|>appeared on the net. It appears that I come across as being 40+ years of
|>age and have no sense of humour. I was amused when I met Kay Dekker and
|>after chatting to him for about 5 minutes he proclaimed "You're nothing
|>like what I expected. You're *smiling*!"
|>
|>
|>Ciaran.
|>-- 
|>---- Ciaran McHale (cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie)
|>\bi/ Department of Computer Science, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland.
|> \/  Telephone: +353-1-7021539 FAX: +353-1-6772204
|>

I think I would join you Ciaran. I've learned, over a period of time, that mail
almost never reveals personality and a lot of people fool themselves into
believing that they know what another person is like based on their writing.

Dj
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: rowe@engin.umich.edu (Steven Rowe)
Subject: Re: Moms, and getting them back (was Re: Coming Out: The Report)
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 92 00:41:54 EST
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor

In article <1992Dec11.155543.2255@cbnews.cb.att.com> eleanor@cbnews.cb.att.com (eleanor.j.evans) writes:
>I really need a hug.  Or 20.
>
>Piglet...

Hug. HUG. (hug). HUUUUGGGG! hughughug. Hold. Sway. Stroke.
Hug! Hug. hughughughughughughughughughug.

I wish they weren't just e-hugs.  Take care.


-- 
Steve Rowe: B0 f- w- c g+ k+ s- e+ r-
I drank too much beer, then tried to sober up by drinking
too much coffee.  The result was that I was still making
irrational decisions, but I was making them *FAST*!  -me
From: mlloyd@ocf.berkeley.edu (M. Lloyd)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: anti-bi's
Date: 17 Dec 1992 05:33:43 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
NNTP-Posting-Host: earthquake.berkeley.edu

iw@tosser.Rational.COM (The_Devine_Dolly) writes:
>rsr@soda.berkeley.edu (Roy S. Rapoport) writes:
>
>>As for the 'urban myth about lesbians being anti-male', I suspect entirely
>>too many men automatically convert "not interested in men" to "anti-men".
>
>See ... we agree more that you can imagine.  This was the hot button
>you pressed for me.  What you say is very true!

"Whaddya mean, you're not interested in men?  My mother was, so why
aren't you??  After all, men do all the *real* work in this society -
the politics, the business, the art, so they *must* be more important.
Jeez, you must be really sick to ignore all of that."

Human beings would probably be OK if they were never children - if they
came into the world fully self-conscious instead of fully self-centred
and absorbing of everything without judgement.  So you get yourself a
choice: you can strike out on your own, in a self-selecting separate
world, be it bi, lesbian, Wiccan or whatever, or you can sit out here
with the phobes, the uncaring, and the dangerous partially clued, as we
wait for the decline and fall of the Rome we know as home, perhaps being
bold enough to daub the odd bit of "Romanes eunt domus" on the walls.

I'm not depressed; I'm just taking my cod liver oil.  Tastes pretty
foul, but it keeps you in one peace.

hugs
Mike
-- 
Mike Lloyd, B0/1 h- f- t w- g+ k+ s m- e? |    "Bloody nose and burning eyes
      Retro-hippy, music nut, bi and      |  Raised in laughter to the skies"
          backrubber of devotion          |                 - Bruce Cockburn
               --The end of confusion is the beginning of death--
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: cathyf@is.rice.edu (Catherine Anne Foulston)
Subject: Re: A question about Stephen M. Conley
Organization: Rice University
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 05:29:01 GMT

In article <Bz1wG5.6FL@cck.coventry.ac.uk> idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid) writes:

>Sorry, I *still* don't believe in the existence of political parties
>with any principles other than "We want to be in power".  Alice
>Cooper was right.

Some Libertarians, if not the party itself, are not after power.
As possible evidence, I offer the fact that Libertarians have run for
office on the platform that if elected to the office, they would then
phase out or abolish that office, leaving themselves officeless.

	Cathy
	not a libertarian, but kinda leaning over that direction.
-- 
Cathy Foulston + Rice University + Network & Systems Support + cathyf@rice.edu
Why you should recycle bytes:  "Believe it or not, most deleted bytes currently
find their way straight into the Internet refuse stream, often to turn up in
postings to Usenet, or worse, OSI standards documents!"  -- Peter Deutsch
From: mlloyd@ocf.berkeley.edu (M. Lloyd)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Introduction, or De-Muffining
Date: 19 Dec 1992 10:30:13 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
NNTP-Posting-Host: tsunami.berkeley.edu

safarj@rebecca.its.rpi.edu (Jonah Emanuel Safar) writes:
>woodhous@latcs2.lat.oz.au (Joe P Woodhouse) writes:
>>safarj@jec311.its.rpi.edu (Jonah Emanuel Safar) writes:
>>>Okay folks, here's an intersting question,
>>>what is the perfect height?
>
>>   5'1", 5'2", 5'5", 5'6", 5'7" & 5'7", I'd say.
>
>Well then... lets just try to do some sample statistics here then...
>Mean: 5' 4 2/3" Median: 5' 5 1/2" Mode: 5' 7"

Note the mode, telling us sweet FA as usual.

>S.D.: 6 2/3" (For small samples, remember, divide by n-1)
                   ^^^^^
Splutter?!  Remove that word this instant.  The only situation where
division by n is appropriate is if you have sampled the whole
population.  Now in Joe's case, I might have believed this had happened,
or will soon :-) 

>>>And take make matters even more strange, can
>>>we come up with an equation relating your height to the perfect height of
>>>your partner(s)....?
>
>>   I think my equation would have to be non-deterministic, given the range
>>of the values above that it generates...
>
>Non-deterministic?  Never!  I'm sure we can come up with something...
>Anyone? :)

Spoken like an engineer... *grin*  "Gimme the points and I'll fit you a
curve."  But then, everyone going back to Erasmus has been attributed
with the most important of statistical quotes, "give me 8 parameters and
I'll draw you an elephant, give me 9 and I'll make it wave its trunk."

Naw, I'll applaud Joe for taking the non-det route. 
   ** Be Stochastic - It's Good For You **

hugs
Mike, thinking of a joke about engineers and sheep

PS the joke is neither obscene nor particularly anti-engineer; it just
sounded good that way :-)
-- 
Mike Lloyd, B0/1 h- f- t w- g+ k+ s m- e? |    "Bloody nose and burning eyes
      Retro-hippy, music nut, bi and      |  Raised in laughter to the skies"
          backrubber of devotion          |                 - Bruce Cockburn
               --The end of confusion is the beginning of death--
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Ciaran McHale)
Subject: Re: Attack of the Seperatists (was Re: Roy's "consenting" slave)
Organization: DSG, Dept. of Computer Science, Trinity College Dublin
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 21:11:37 GMT

Warning. Bad pun coming up.

Roy, perhaps you should just... Jack off all trades and be a master of
none.

<ducks>

By the way, I'm a Computer Scientist, but if you're going to work
alphabetically then I might change career and become an Aardvark
Specialist (whatever that might be) :-)


Ciaran.
-- 
---- Ciaran McHale (cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie)
\bi/ Department of Computer Science, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland.
 \/  Telephone: +353-1-7021539 FAX: +353-1-6772204
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Ciaran McHale)
Subject: Re: Hi!
Organization: DSG, Dept. of Computer Science, Trinity College Dublin
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 13:08:06 GMT

In <1992Dec12.031655.24195@microunity.com> qua@microunity.com
(Henry Massalin) writes:
>> I'm assuming that Jenneke's introductory paragraph means you haven't
>> been here before.
>
>Actually, I had posted once before - two (?) years ago - and had been duly
>welcomed.  Does that count? :-)

Soc.bi has only been around for about 14 months so I doubt if it was
that long ago. Though, it certainly _seems_ longer than that.

Welcome (again).


Ciaran.
-- 
---- Ciaran McHale (cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie)
\bi/ Department of Computer Science, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland.
 \/  Telephone: +353-1-7021539 FAX: +353-1-6772204
From: mlloyd@ocf.berkeley.edu (M. Lloyd)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Seperatists etc.
Date: 19 Dec 1992 06:47:02 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
NNTP-Posting-Host: tsunami.berkeley.edu

Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu (Albert Lunde) writes:
>This is not (*Thank Goddess and/or Muffy*) alt.feminism, and
>I hope we are not so far apart we can't hear each other.
>
>I feel emotionally unwilling to take sides.  At the same time
>my intellect, and explaining my self leads me to write long digessions
>like this. I hope others will not take them in a hostile spirit.

Emphatically not, in this quarter, Albert.  You give me less to say by
spelling out many of the convolutions I see but am unwilling to work on
too much here.  I was *very* nervous of this whole thread in so "public"
a forum as soc.bi; the kind of sparks it seemed likely to generate are
not intrinsically bad, but I was personally unwilling to put myself in
the firing line unless I was sure, either of exactly what I felt, or
that I could maintain a constructive fairness (this last may be harder,
say, on the Dworkin/MacKinnon stuff).  

Still, as I commented to someone recently, this kind of heat-level is
hardly some failure.  It's more the normative nature of net.talk putting
in a fleeting (?) appearance in this beautiful anomaly of a group.  No,
this ain't alt.feminism, and won't be in the near future.  If enough
people take your lead, Albert, and make careful sense, I think we'll
manage :-)

hugs
Mike, in publically private mode
-- 
Mike Lloyd, B0/1 h- f- t w- g+ k+ s m- e? |    "Bloody nose and burning eyes
      Retro-hippy, music nut, bi and      |  Raised in laughter to the skies"
          backrubber of devotion          |                 - Bruce Cockburn
               --The end of confusion is the beginning of death--
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: wells@athena.cs.uga.edu (Scott Wells)
Subject: Anti-bi fear proves false
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 20:56:36 GMT


A few days ago I posted how I had some gay-positive, but bi-snitty
straight friends. Last night I came out to them, and there were
supportive, even curious and asked bi-responsible questions. I hope
I'm wrong like that more often.

Eleven more people to come out to, including my family. *Eek*

 
-- 
Scott Wells                        +  Get thee behind me Satan !
Internet: wells@athena.cs.uga.edu  + 
University of Georgia		   +  Looking for families: Wells, Fox (TN)
Athens, Georgia, USA               +  Coatney (TN), Wilvert (PA)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: noonan@tolkin.enet.dec.com (Enoperiod)
Subject: Re: This Whole Penis Thing ...
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Distribution: soc.bi
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 18:30:44 GMT


In article <1992Dec8.204401.22938@fivenine.apple.com>, haynes@fivenine.apple.com (Charles Haynes) writes...
> 
>But Iseult, I *have* a detachable penis. I really do. You've *seen* it!
>(And mine's STILL bigger. :-)
> 
> 
>	-- Charles


         And it is a very nice one, too, Charles.


         Especially with the skirt.  



         (*8


         E
Newsgroups: soc.bi,soc.motss
From: dbshapco@napier.uwaterloo.ca (Brad Shapcott)
Subject: Re: Liberty (was something relevant about CO-2 long ago...)
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 00:32:13 GMT


>  Tim writes:
>
>>In article <1992Dec18.194804.2371@tc.cornell.edu> shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (
M
>elinda Shore) writes:
>>
>>>I forgot, in my previous posting, to thank all you Big
>>>Smart Men for explaining to us Poor Addled Women exactly
>>>how to go about achieving gender parity.  Thanks!
>>
>He appears to be all of these things simply because he's *not*
>struggling with new ideas; in fact, he's blissfully unaware of their
>existence.
>
>Tim Pierce
>

But frankly, I don't see Melinda's comment about `Big Smart Men` being pointed
specifically at Alan.  Maybe her comment was flip, but she seems to have hinted
at and hit quite a wide number of current threads with it.

And anyways, where is this getting anyone?  Alan comes out no better, nor
does Melinda.  I'm getting worked up about this whole issue of writing people
out of causes because we'd rather attack what they are than change them into
what they should be (which itself works with many current threads).

Men will run the spectrum from fully clued to arrogant sexist pigs, and things
in between.  Attaching human qualities to them in proportion dangerously
writes off exactly the people who most need the education.  I know, for as
I admitted in a previous post, I've been there all the way.  And it wasn't
comments like Melinda's that ever took me away from that.


Brad
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: anti-bi's
From: woodhous@latcs2.lat.oz.au (Joe P Woodhouse)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 03:27:17 GMT
Organization: Comp Sci, La Trobe Uni, Australia

rsr@soda.berkeley.edu (Roy S. Rapoport) writes:
>As for the 'urban myth about lesbians being anti-male', I suspect entirely
>too many men automatically convert "not interested in men" to "anti-men".

   Ah, I wish to clarify an earlier post of mine here, lest I have
misrepresented myself. When I listed a few instances of some intolerance
on the part of lesbians I know, I most specifically wasn't having my
feathers ruffled by them "not being interested in men". At the time, 
they very very strongly caught me as examples of an active stance against
men (I'm thinking of cues like tone and body language which I couldn't
really represent well in my post).

   But yeah. It just occurred to me that maybe I was sounding like I
was sounding a bit hetboy-ish.

Joe.

  / Joe Woodhouse        / I'm just a sweet bisexual...   / Hello, there.
 / Latrobe University   /    (think - Rocky Horror)      / Threesomes are fun.
/ Melbourne, Australia / Music. Magic. Mathematics. Me. / I like cats! (miaow!)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: ktfizazi@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Kamal Tayeb Fizazi)
Subject: Re: anti-bi's
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 08:05:03 GMT

In article <1992Dec13.200933.25655@koko.csustan.edu> bjm@ceti.csustan.edu (Barb Moose) writes:
>I just read the post regarding the terrible reaction to a bi button.
>I have found personally that I get it from both straights and les/gays.
>I initially thought that I would be supported from lesbians and gays, but
>NOOOOOOOOOO....   so, what is the reason?  I am confused.  I feel now
>like I really don't fit in, and have to re-closet from everyone.
>Any suggestions?
> Barb Moose
I have found that many gays resent (I can't generalize about all of them, and
not at all about lesbians) the fact that if we want to, we can pick up and go,
and start a socially-accepted relationship.  We don't have to endure the 
attacks that accompany out homosexuality...  We aren't as visible if we don't
want to be.  
For a lot of them that have been struggling to come out and feel validated in 
society, the fact that if/when they get dumped by a bi for a member of the 
opposite sex makes the rejection hurt more, precisely because we can also find
within this new relationship, a comfortable social life.  It is difficult for
them not to resent.  However they are not all like that.  I have found some 
gay/les friends to be very supportive.
Kamal

-- 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-| Dunya => the world
Desperately seeking person to make my baraka virulent :^) | Hanyah=> is easy
(would someone help me rouse it? anyone??? anyone???)     | Sma'  => the sky
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-| Safyah=> is pure
From: STella@thelema.uucp (STella)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Roy's "consenting" slave
Date: 14 Dec 92 10:37:27 GMT
Organization: Idiosyncratic Anarchic Order

In article <s882916.724315458@otto> s882916@otto (Vikki POLLARD) writes:
>
>You men just don't get it huh?

Neither do we women, Vikki....

You seem not to have noticed that more than a couple women have
responded to your stupid attack on Roy, and tried to tell you what
you're missing.  Me, I figure it's like trying to teach a pig to sing,
waste of time and annoys the pig.

(On the other hand, if this discussion were in alt.sex.bondage, I
could see a FINE thread breaking out on the art of teaching a pig to
sing....)

You haven't responded, far as I've seen, to Kerry's post, in which she
did a fine job of explaining the clues you're missing, either.

But instead of thinking about this, instead of considering the
possibility that some of us who have played BDSM might have an insight
to offer, you want to make it an issue of men vs. women.  Of course,
to do this, you have to ignore the women (including Roy's slave)
who've told you you're full of shit, and pretend that only MEN have
noticed.

It doesn't work here, dearie, not for me, not (I hope) for Roy and
Kerry, and not for anyone reading this thread who has two neurons to
rub together.  Might work for you, though....

STella@xanadu.com	1016 E. El Camino Real, #302, Sunnyvale, CA 94087
STella%thelema.uucp@dec.com	Don't blame me, I voted Libertarian!
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: sconley@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Stephen M Conley)
Subject: Re: A question about Stephen M. Conley
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 06:54:57 GMT

In article <1g6ccuINN6he@plts.uucp> tal@plts.uucp (Tom Limoncelli) writes:

[...]
>
>Anyway, substitute "not doing activism" for "straight" and I feel
>that my argument still holds.

That seems like a pretty good way of discouraging activism, if all the
activists get together and tell the non-activists to piss off.  The point
of all my arguments has been that I simply cannot accept anti-discrimination
legislation without some sort of evidence that it does not violate the
individual's right to associate freely.  I am interested in and will gladly
participate in activism that doesn't violate individual rights (better 
definitions forthcoming after my post-finals carousing has left my 
bloodstream).

>>Why do certain portions of the American bi/les/gay community hold the
>>belief that if you're not a Democrat, you must be straight?
>
>Maybe it's because we've been hurt by Dems and Repubs but less by
>the Dems?  Maybe because I find the libertarian rhetoric hypocritical?
>(PLEASE let's not start these debates again, take them to another
>newsgroup)

Okay, I won't start any ideological debates (at least, I hope not).  But I 
have to point out that there are other ideas involved in politics besides 
those relating directly to les/bi/gay rights.  If I believe in free trade,
non-interventionism, and les/bi/gay rights, shouldn't I support the party
that best reflects that?  How does that make me any less queer?

--
Steve Conley                       "Jupiter:  America's dairy land!" --MST3K
sconley@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu    | Disclaimer:  OSU is too damn big to
Don't blame me, I voted Libertarian! |              have any opinions at all.
From: mlloyd@ocf.berkeley.edu (M. Lloyd)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Singing Queers
Date: 20 Dec 1992 08:16:11 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
NNTP-Posting-Host: earthquake.berkeley.edu

as010b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (andrew david simchik) writes:
>I heard rumours about Sarah MacLachlan, and don't forget the Depeche boys
>(at least Martin, and Vince Clarke now of Erasure).
                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^
So true.  But it's worth adding Andy Bell, the guy with the voice in
Erasure.  (I took a dislike to them to start with, becaus he sounded
like a poor imitation of Alison Moyet, aka Alf, who used to play with
Vince as Yazoo, or Yaz in the States [not to be confused with Yazz, a
rather different Brit singer]; I've no info on Moyet's queerstatus.) 

Bell looks *really* amazing in tights.  He can do that glam thang like
no-one else - so OTT.  Makes Liberace look like, well, what he is.
According to the Voice, last time Erasure played in NYC, they covered
"Stand By Your Man".  For this number, Bell wore cowboy-style chaps
which left his rear end appropriately exposed .... :-)

Mike
-- 
Mike Lloyd, B0/1 h- f- t w- g+ k+ s m- e? |    "Bloody nose and burning eyes
      Retro-hippy, music nut, bi and      |  Raised in laughter to the skies"
          backrubber of devotion          |                 - Bruce Cockburn
               --The end of confusion is the beginning of death--
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: panda@Micor.OCUnix.on.ca (Elizabeth Holden)
Subject: Re: Another one with a problem...
Organization: M.B. Cormier INC.
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 07:45:13 EST

jcf@world.std.com (Joseph C Fineman) writes:

> And to hell with people who demand that you call yourself this or
> that.  "Identity" (in the psychological sense) is an idiot

Huh?  Why?  I think the notion of "identity" is important because to each 
of us our self-image is important.  If someone *else* tries to define 
your identity by attaching a label, that's something different and 
doesn't mean a thing.  But defining oneself.... well, it's part of 
knowing yourself - trying to put it in words and concepts - and to most 
people I've observed, this is fairly important to coping with the world.  
Understanding oneself and relating to others in view of this 
understanding.

I suspect we're disagreeing over the implications of words....

Namaste,
Elizabeth


Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: sconley@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Stephen M Conley)
Subject: Re: Hugs, & NO question about Stephen M. Conley!
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 06:58:53 GMT

Thanks for all the hugs, everyone!  :-)  I needed 'em.  And special thanks
to STella:  I might just take you up on that!

Ah, it's been a fascinating evening.  I'll post more coherently later. %-)

Steve
Newsgroups: soc.bi