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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 10 Apr 1992 02:26:47 CDT
From:         Lonnie Schubert <S096556@UMRVMA.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Becky and Mormonism

On Thu, 9 Apr 1992 12:20:42 PDT Doug Gould said:
>>tn>      According to the ``authorized'' version of the first vision,
>>tn>      Joseph Smith taught, ``...I asked the personages who stood
>>tn>      above me in the light, which of all the sects was right,...I
>>tn>      was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all
>>tn>      wrong, and the personage who addressed me said that all their
>>tn>      creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors
>>tn>      were all corrupt,... (_Times and Seasons_, Vol. 3, page 748)
>
>Yes, you're quite right.  Joseph did say "all of their _creeds_" were an
>abomination to God; or, more precisely, Joseph quoted God making such
>a statement.  That doesn't contradict the 13th Article of Faith which I
>[..........]
>The phrase "professors were all corrupt" I take to mean
>those who preached or taught the creeds God objected to, not
>everything about every person who found himself or herself an
>innocent member of those other denominations.
>.+++++++++++++++++++++.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.
>| Doug Gould          | Jesus: "Come unto me...my yoke is easy, |
>`+++++++++++++++++++++^+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++'
All,
I have here on this list already professed full acceptance of and
allegence to the Apostle's creed.  I have stated that I agree with the
Nicene creed.  I now profess full acceptance and allegence to the
bible doctrines held by the majority of _Pentecostal_ denominations,
specifically that professed by the Assemblies of God and the Church
of God as explained in the book _Foundations of Pentecostal Theology_,
by, Guy P. Duffield and Nathaniel M Van Cleave, L.I.F.E. Bible College,
1100 Glendale Boulevard, Los Angeles, CA. (LoCC# BX8762.Z5D84 1983).
I have had a full semester course with this large reference [style]
book as the text.  I have studied it and accept it fully.  I recomend
EVERYONE obtain a copy of this thorough work for reference.
My personal theology largly is laid on the doctrines clearly and precisely
set forth in the indicated work.  I profess these creeds and doctines.
I have taught them.  I have presented scripture for them (as does the
cited work).  I have stood in the pulpit and proclaimed them as the very
truths taught by the scriptures.  And as Becky points out, these are
the doctrines and creeds I will teach my children with all diligence.

There can be no doubt about Joseph Smith, Junior's statement.  He claimed
that God spoke those words.  He claimed divine authority to the assertion.
There is no middle ground on which the words can fall.  Either God said it,
or J.S.jr. was lieing.  I further assert that such a bold and specific
statement could not be uttered as a falsehood without intent to deceive;
thus I conclude that either J.S.jr. spoke true, or he spoke a lie with
the express intent of lending creedence to a deception he was purporting.
From this I conclude that I am corrupt and abomninable before God and
as such would be quite worthy and deserving of contempt since I willfully,
knowingly, and unresearvedly asspouse the creeds specified by J.S.jr. and
even profess and teach these creeds to others, OR Joseph Smith, Jr. was
a lier and deceiver, worthy of no praise or allegience.  He specificly
claimed that GOD said thus and so.  If he was correct and true, I am damned.
If he was false, he is a false prophet and a willful deceiver and swindler.
Again I say, either I am damned, or Joseph Smith was a lier.

I have spoken boldly here.  I will not appologize for that.  I firmly believe
there is no middle ground for person like me who has for over 20 years
held these doctrines and creeds.  I am convinced of the above.  I am also
convinced of Him whom I serve and have faith that He will complete in me
the work He has begun.  I am firmly convinced and have full faith that Jesus,
the Christ, will accept me and call me His own in the Kingdom that He rules.
Jesus has promised me a place in heaven, a mansion if you will.  My faith
is ONLY in Him and His word, the Bible, comprised of the Old Testament and
the New Testament.
   Lonnie Eugene Schubert
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