HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: lmalloy@abacus.bates.edu (Laura G. Malloy)
Subject: Re: DOS 6 Beta Looks for OS/2!!!!!!!!
Organization: Bates College, Lewiston, Maine
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 01:42:51 GMT

In article <930104183427@rgam.sc.ti.com> 5692330@mcimail.com (Robert Gammon) writes:

>One of my co-workers recently bought a 486-33 IBM ValuePoint witht OS/2 2.0 
>installed on the hard drive.  This occured in the last two weeks.  In the 
>documentation package shipped with the machine was a coupon to return for a
>copy of DOS 5 + Windoze.  He thinks that the package is free (although maybe
>not, he wasn't very interested in this feature).  Looks like IBM has met M$'s
>offer and then some.
>
>--
>Regards,
>Robert Gammon
>(713)-274-3299       (voice)
>(713)-274-2324       (fax)

Interesting that such a coupon is included (and quite admirable), but I
wonder if it's a regular feature or a limited time offer?  The IBM
people I've spoken to have never mentioned it even though I asked quite
specifically about deleting OS/2 from the Valuepoint machine in
question.  If, indeed, the package is free (or low cost) and the offer
is a regular part of the Valupoint line, cheers to IBM! 

Joe Malloy
German Deparment
Hamilton College
From: jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: FCC will proclaim Microsoft is run by Communists! :)
Date: 4 Jan 1993 15:58:31 GMT
Organization: UT Health Science Center Houston

In article <1993Jan4.003732.13494@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> helz@ecn.purdue.edu (Randall A Helzerman) writes:
>And I'll bet that Chystler dealerships are going to be the first ones with
>replacement parts for the 1994 model LeBaron.  This is a non-issue.

Tell Lotus and Word Perfect that MS will beat them to the street by two
months, and that that's a non-issue. Then duck.
-- 
Jay Maynard, EMT-P, K5ZC, PP-ASEL | Never ascribe to malice that which can
jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu      | adequately be explained by stupidity.
      "Science is all in the public domain, and allows few secrets."
              -- Tom Clancy, _The Sum of all Fears_
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: wiegand@rtsg.mot.com (Robert Wiegand)
Subject: Re: ftc and ms
Reply-To: motcid!wiegand@uunet.uu.net
Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 15:17:43 GMT

discar@nosc.mil (Joe Discar) writes:

[Stuff deleted]

>In paradise, I assume, everybody can be happy... but in the real world,
>there are going to be some people that get what they want and some people
>that don't.  Luckily (or unluckily as the case is) some countries like the
>U.S. let the MAJORITY make the decision about how things will go--and the
>MINORITY have to take it (or convince the populace at large that their
                           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>way is better).  This is true in politics and MARKETING.  If the majority
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>of people want product A, product A should succeed.

>At this time, the majority of computer users WANT MS-DOS... over 80% in
>fact.  And Microsoft Windows has been in the top ten list for over 84 weeks
>(Merisel figures).  If a vendor wishes to maximize his profits, he addresses
>the MAJORITY market... I'm sorry that you don't "like" it, but that's the
>way it is.

>If you don't think that that's the way it should be (and 2 out of ten people
>don't)--then convince the populace-at-large that OS/2 (or Taligent or
         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Unix) is the way to go... and I guarantee you, when those who desire OS/2
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>are a majority, the Vendors will follow suit.


That's exactly what we are trying to do. That's the whole point of the
argument. When a minority feel that they are being stepped on by the
majority they have to make a little noise to be heard. No one will
do anything to help someone who just sits there quietly and takes the
abuse. I don't expect things to change overnight, but if I don't speak
up things will never change.

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Wiegand - Motorola Inc.
motcid!wiegand@uunet.uu.net            uunet!motcid!wiegand
Disclamer: I didn't do it - I was somewhere else at the time.
From: lansche@torolab6.VNET.IBM.COM (Martin Lansche)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 93 11:46:18 EST
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: Does IBM have an Internet email address?
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not those of IBM
News-Software: UReply 3.0

In <C0Do0D.3Kn@news.cso.uiuc.edu> J. Fippen writes:
>   I use os2 and love the program. If IBM had an email address, I'd
>tell them directly what I like, and don't like, about the program as I
>use it each day. Can anyone help me?
>   Thanks    John Fippen
>
Well, as an IBMer and as a happy OS/2 user, thank you for your praise r.e.
OS/2.  Does IBM have an email address?  Well, there are 400,000 (no 375,000
no 350,000, no 3??,000) IBMers most of which were not involved in OS/2
development, sales, or support.  Many of us have access to Internet, and
others watch Compuserve as required by their jobs.  Almost all of us have
email addresses, although most are available only to other IBMers.
  I work in an area adjacent to the C Set/2 and Workframe/2 product
developers.  These two products have established Internet accounts that are
monitored by their technical staff.  I am unaware of a OS/2 equivalent account.
 ---- The following is taken from comp.os.os2.programming ----
You can take your choice of support for WorkSet/2.  Aside from posting
questions here (we do try to monitor this newsgroup), you can send
questions about C Set/2 to cset2@vnet.ibm.com, or about WorkFrame/2 to
workframe@vnet.ibm.com.  If you want to officially report a problem,
call 1-800-3-IBM-OS2.   -tim
----  End of insertion ----

Some of you who watch this conference may be unaware of this, but these
conferences are being watched by many IBMers.  Some, like myself, because they
are OS/2 "fans" - I run it at home, and love it.  Others have a professional
interest - they work in OS/2 development, marketing, or support.  So my
suggestion, John, is to post your kudos and complaints to this conference.  If
your complaints are really reports of bugs (I don't want to discuss semantical
differences here), then use one of the official reporting channels, e.g.
Compuserve, IBM Support Centres, IBM National BBSes, 1-800-3-IBM-OS2, etc...

Cheers, and thanks,
Martin Lansche, IBM Toronto Lab, Canada
  ________________________________________________________________________
   Ilu Iluvatar en kare eldain a firimoin ar antarota mannar valion :
   numessier.  Toi aina, mana, meldielto -- enga morion : talantie.
   ----------------------------------------------------------------------
   The father made the world for elves and mortals and he gave it into
   the hands of the Lords in the West.  They are blessed, holy and loved,
   except the black one.  He has fallen.  (J.R.R. Tolkien).
  ________________________________________________________________________

Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: brian@jaguar.cs.utah.edu (Brian Sturgill)
Subject: Re: Tidbits 01/06/93
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 93 19:14:44 GMT

In article <96096@rphroy.ph.gmr.com> rbotimer@max.ct.gmr.com (R Douglas Botimer) writes:
>In article <1993Jan7.063028.14772@fcom.cc.utah.edu> brian@jaguar.cs.utah.edu  
>(Brian Sturgill) writes:
>:
>:Index
>:	Future MS-DOS to fuse 32-bit DOS, Windows.
>:	Novell's acquisition of USL sends stock edging downward.
>:	Next in trouble/Ross Next Boss at IBM?
>:	MS and MM at COMDEX
>:	Windows BIG at COMDEX
>:	FTC closing in on antitrust action against Microsoft
>:	Miscellaneous quotes and charts from a MacWeek year end report.
>:
>:------------
>
>Details Deleted....
>
>Welcome back Brian!  The fuel you add to this forum was missed over the  
>Holidays, it was quiet.
>
>Microsoft's "Chicago" referenced in the first article "Future MS-DOS to fuse  
>32-bit DOS, Windows" sounds a awful lot like Intel's 486SX - damage control!   
>The competition (OS/2) is starting to take an unexpected bite out of market  
>share, got to do something FAST!  Microsoft is beginning to realize NT won't  
>capture the desktop because it is to expensive (both price and resources) and  
>DOS/Windows 3.x just can't compare to OS/2.

Chicago is a long running project.  I've known about it since last
July, and I don't think it was specifically a response to OS/2 2.0 as
it was started well before OS/2 2.0 came out. Microsoft has never
claimed that NT (at the time it ships) is for the mass market.  They
have always said it is for high-end desktops and servers.  The
statement made at the July developers conference was that in 2 or 3
years after it releases NT would be the dominant OS, and of course that
is partially market-hype.  Though, as was pointed out at the DC, 2 or 3
years from now NT could easily be running on hand-held devices.

The idea behind Chicago is to smooth the transition for people with older or
(at the time it comes out) very cheap Intel hardware.
Also the combination of Win32s, Chicago, and NT, makes it very easy and
desirable for developers to switch their Windows apps to 32-bit code, as
most of their customers can run the 32-bit version already.

>
>The OS/2 2.1 beta is great!!  It runs very nicely on my Victor 386SX/25.  The  
>only disappointment is higher resolution video and that is mainly a limitation  
>of my hardware.  Quattro Pro for Windows performs nicely,  as well as under  
>Windows 3.1.

I am glad to hear this, I look forward to running my _Windows_ programs
under it during those times I'm developing under OS/2.  I'm not sure
what IBM has in mind though... this certainly will not encourage the
sales of PM apps.

>Doug

Brian
-- 
C. Brian Sturgill                          NeXTStep 486 is for _YOU_!!!!
University of Utah                    Microsoft needs competition, but I want
Center for Software Science          to be one of the many running Windows NT!
brian@cs.utah.edu; CIS: 70363,1373    :-) :-) :-)  NT SDK: $69; (800) 227-4679
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: des@inmos.co.uk (David Shepherd)
Subject: Re: FCC will proclaim Microsoft is run by Communists! : )
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 93 13:23:39 GMT

Laura G. Malloy (lmalloy@abacus.bates.edu) wrote:
: There's one thing that troubles me about this assumption that MS put a
: code checker into Win 3.1 for the sole purpose of befuddling DR-DOS
: users: if it's this easy to find out what they did, if it was as easy to
: correct as I've heard it was, if it was as easy for DR to update (they
: had the needed mod within hours of the Win 3.1 release), why for Pete's
: (!) sake would they do something so transparent?  If this is, indeed,
: what they did, they look awfully bad.  Since MS is darn good at
: marketing (which I would think includes projecting a positive image of
: the company), I find it difficult to believe they'd shoot themselves in
: the foot so.    

: Any plausible reasons why they might have had an incompatiblitiy with
: DR-DOS?  


from a conspiracy theory point of view

1) it was easy to fix so that it DR could claim that MS had tried to
lock them out of machines running Win 3.1

2) they had several months during beta testing of publicity that DR-DOS
would not run Win 3.1 which probably still is a factor when people
consider the compatibility of DR-DOS. I think MS were trying to
generate a sense of fear in going the DR-DOS route so that people would
decide to play safe and stick with MS-DOS.

of course this tactic can always backfire. I was a happy DR-DOS 5 user
who wanted to get a windows environment. There seemed to be 2 obvious
choices - Win 3.1 or OS/2. Win 3.1 would involve me buying MS-DOS 5 or
upgrading to DR-DOS 6 + fix (and DR UK were offering virtually no
discount for the DR-DOS 6 upgrade) as well as Win 3.1 so this was one
of the reasons for going OS/2, though the main one was that it looked
like a much better system.

--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
david shepherd: des@inmos.co.uk                     tel: 0454-616616 x 625
                inmos ltd, 1000 aztec west, almondsbury, bristol, bs12 4sq
                New Year Resolution for 1993: Start using capital letters.
From: Gary.Woodman@anu.edu.au (Gary Woodman)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: W4Wk threat to OS/2 receeds....!
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 02:36:51 GMT
Organization: Computer Services Centre, Australian National University
NNTP-Posting-Host: 150.203.5.23

In article <1993Jan11.232427.4005@actrix.gen.nz> Steve.Withers@bbs.actrix.gen.nz writes:

>reception of E-mail via Da-Vinci while in our accounting app resulted in the
>accounting app data files locking. 

Well, you already know the answer to that is MS Mail! :-)

>W4Wk has been order *off* all PCs. 

This says more about your boss than OS/2, W4W or MS...

--
Gary.Woodman@anu.edu.au         This post made from 100% recycled electrons.
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: linstee@dutecaj.et.tudelft.nl (Erik van Linstee)
Subject: Re: FCC will proclaim Microsoft is run by Communists! : )
Organization: Delft University of Technology, Dept. of Electrical Engineering
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1993 21:08:00 GMT

jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard) writes:

>In article <1993Jan6.135137.21866@wraxall.inmos.co.uk> des@inmos.co.uk (David Shepherd) writes:
>>Jay Maynard (jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu) wrote:
>>: You must never have run it on lesser hardware, then; it ran fine for me on a
>>: 386SX-16 with 8 meg RAM and two 40 meg hard disks.
>>you had 8 meg RAM ? you had it lucky, I only had 5 Meg RAM and it
>>was acceptable.

>5 meg RAM? Luxury! We had to run on 2 meg, and stay up late at night just to
>feed the squirrels turning the generator!

You had quirrels? What luxury! All we had was a blind bat and his
guidance dog. We spent months training the dog to even find the
generator.

>(Is that a colonel coming this way?)
>-- 
>Jay Maynard, EMT-P, K5ZC, PP-ASEL | Never ascribe to malice that which can
>jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu      | adequately be explained by stupidity.
>      "Science is all in the public domain, and allows few secrets."
>              -- Tom Clancy, _The Sum of All Fears_


Sorry, forgot which group this was :-)
-- 
Erik van Linstee   |   Delft University of Technology   |   I'll be back ... 
----
   We are god, 'cause only we can create the idea of his existence
   in our holy brains...  (Yello)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: rsrodger@wam.umd.edu (Yamanari)
Subject: Re: OS/2 bigot and NT
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 01:28:48 GMT

In article <93008.123303VALHC@CUNYVM.BITNET> <VALHC@CUNYVM.BITNET> writes:
>I think it's safe to rule out the possibilty that MicroSoft and Intel may
>have collaborated to "fix" NT so as to prevent it from running AMD's 386
>clone.  I don't see how doing this can be any advantage for MicroSoft,
>although it certainly would be in Intel's favor.  Microsoft would do well
>to maximize the hardware base on which NT can run and excluding machines
>built around AMD's chips would run counter to that.


	I think you were addressing a different topic than
	what you ended up writing about.  NT runs fine on all
	Intel compatible processors--Cyrix, AMD.  

	The one that doesn't--or *suppposedly* doesnt (I don't believe
	it for a second) is NeXT486.  Supposedly, it will only run on
	a genuine Intel 486SX or DX.  The Cyrix 486slc (?) is a full 
	80486 sans coprocessor (and Cyrix's external is faster than the
	DX's internal one).  NS486 will probably run fine--but NeXT
	says no.

	One has to wonder.


-- 
      Blaming "society" for your problems is like blaming clouds for rain.
 ---  boycott == coercion == censorship == closed mindedness == cowardice  ---
	      "Psalms 23:1  The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want."  
		Shepherds are for sheep.   -----      Pain teaches.
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: wiegand@rtsg.mot.com (Robert Wiegand)
Subject: Re: FCC will proclaim Microsoft is run by Communists! : )
Reply-To: motcid!wiegand@uunet.uu.net
Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 15:34:51 GMT

helz@ecn.purdue.edu (Randall A Helzerman) writes:

>For the life of me, I can't understand why someone would use the word "force"
>to describe what is going on.  If someone offers me a deal which will put
>more money in my pocket and I accept it, have I been "forced?"  Economic
>"force" means that I get richer if I comply--physical force means that I
>get my brains blown out if I don't comply.  Dudes, the difference couldn't
>be greater.

Computer hardware is *very* cost sensitive. There is very little difference
between brand A hardware and brand B hardware. People (for the most part)
buy based on cost. For a hardware vendor saving a few dollars on product
cost may be the difference between making a profit and going out of
business. This isn't just a matter of making a few extra dollars for them.
This is a matter of survival for them. Under these condition it's quite
possible to *force* them to do something.

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Wiegand - Motorola Inc.
motcid!wiegand@uunet.uu.net            uunet!motcid!wiegand
Disclamer: I didn't do it - I was somewhere else at the time.
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: bai@msiadmin.cit.cornell.edu (Dov Bai-MSI Visitor)
Subject: Re: Bill Gates:  What a weenie...
Organization: /usr/local/lib/news/organization
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 17:04:39 GMT

In article <1993Jan5.065611.16312@zooid.guild.org> Mark Kovarski <kovarski@zooid.guild.org> writes:
>bai@msiadmin.cit.cornell.edu (Dov Bai-MSI Visitor) writes:

>>What an attitude. Here sits a man who built a successful company 
>>from scratch, and trying to explain how he did it. Rather then 
>>listening and trying to learn something, you are ridiculing
>>him because his ideas dont fit your world view. Why did you bother
>>viewing the interview ? Does it give you some emotional gratification
>>to ridicule someone else ?

>While many of you Microsoft Wingagas may not like what I posted, and your

I am not a Window user, I have used OS/2 IBM version since ver. 1.2 (IBM).

>gently feelings might not take it, I will continue to say whatever I feel
>like saying. If you don't like it, feel free to take me to court.

You can post whatever you "feel" even if it is nonesense. But dont
delude yourself that you are doing any service to OS/2 by posting
what you did. Quite the contrary. As I said in an earlier posting,
MS-haters dont care about what they are destroying, even it is 
self-harming. 

Kill files are much cheaper than lawyers...

Dov
From: herborth@pinot.Waterloo.NCR.Com (Chris Herborth)
Newsgroups: wat.general,ncr.sys.os2,comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Wanted: Your opinions about OS/2 2.x
Date: 8 Jan 93 16:05:10 GMT
Organization: NCR Canada Ltd., Waterloo, Ont.
Originator: herborth@

Having come to the decision that I need a more powerful computer (my
trusty Atari ST is nearly at the end of its useful lifespan; hardware
and software support for the platform is non-existant in North America),
I've been attracted to OS/2.

What I'd like is some first hand accounts (in email preferably) of what
you think of OS/2, especially the WorkPlace Shell.  How does it compare
to Windows?  X?  The Mac System?  GEM on the Atari?  OS/2 1.2?  Other
GUIs you've used (NeXTstep, SunOS, whatever)?

What sort of hardware are you running OS/2 on, and how fast/slow does it
seem?  What problems have you run into?  What great things have you run
into?

I'd like to gather as much info as I can before I start looking for the
hardware.  My fiancee's father is planning to buy a clone, and I'd like
to tell him to put OS/2 on it instead of DOS... that way I'll be
able to get some hands-on experience before I get my own system, and his
hardware would get a chance to do real 32-bit computing.  I'd
hate to stick him with something he can't use though... up until now,
he's been a DOS-head, fumbling along with WordPerfect (ack!) and Lotus
1-2-3.  I've been using GUIs, DOS, and unix for ages, so I'm mostly
after a good interface... Windows doesn't fit the bill, and it's a
serious shame to put DOS/Windows on good 32-bit hardware.

Any and all candid opinions welcome!
-- 
----------================= _   /\ =================================----------
Chris Herborth              \`o.0'             herborth@pinot.Waterloo.NCR.COM
Information Products Co-Op  =(___)=
NCR E&M Waterloo               U        Laura Palmer: "Bob"'s favourite snack. 

Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: jahonen@cs.joensuu.fi (Jarmo Ahonen)
Subject: Re: NT Destined to Succeed??
Organization: University of Joensuu
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 07:35:39 GMT

rsrodger@wam.umd.edu (Yamanari) writes:

>In article <19189@mindlink.bc.ca> Ian_Upright@mindlink.bc.ca (Ian Upright) writes:
>>At times I didn't, and with all of NT's supposed capability, and Microsoft's
>>marketing, I thought it could actually be a success.. NOT!

>	It also offers more bang for the buck in terms of performance,
>	but OS/2 is hardly more solid than the NT beta.  (recent fud
>	to the contrary inthis base on an obviously misconfigured
>	machine, ignored).  If mission-critical is the goal, then
>	NT or UNIX (preferably UNIX) are clearly superior to OS/2.

>	Compatibility-wise, NT can't touch OS/2.  It's a matter of
>	system integrity.

If *I* want system integrity and stability, *I* would go for a Sparc Classic
or any other *real* workstation with a *real* OS. But because I want to run
all my old dirty software I bought OS/2. If I could get the same software
for a Sun, I would never even look at an OS made by a company which has
used more than TEN years with the DOS without making it substantially better
in any way. Well... I'd even buy a Sun if I could get it for the same money
than a 486 with a reasonable configuration (disk 400 MB, 17" screen, 16MB
of memory).

>> Once native apps hit the market, and driver support gets
>>better, watch that number double or tripple very fast..  



>	I've heard this one for the last 12 months. I still don't 
>	have a decent driver for my ATI or Diamond cards, and the
>	much-hyped "seamless windows" doesn't work with post-SP
>	8514/a's.

Well... If I remember right, the first date for NT was a year ago...
I should check this but I could not care less - if OS/2 does not succeed,
I'll do what I should (?) have done in the first place: buy a Sun or
similar machine.

During the meantime I will have enough time to use my OS/2 for a year or two.
After that time my machine will be at least a bit outdated and then NT does
not matter in any case...
From: os2man@panix.com (Larry Salomon Jr.)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: Does IBM have an Internet email address?
Date: 11 Jan 93 16:41:09 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC

In <1993Jan11.113200.13655@kth.se> d92-jhe@dront.nada.kth.se (Johan Hellman) writes:

> Why not just a mailaddress to which all such suggestions could be
>mailed? Something like suggestions@os2.ibm.com. That way we would all
>know where to send our feature requests.

Because no one else can see what everyone else suggested, so IBM ends up
getting 1000 requests for feature 'A'.

Cheers,
Q
-- 
"If you choose not to decide, you  | "My other body is in the shop" - seen
 still have made a choice" - Rush  |  on a T-shirt
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy