HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mathew <mathew@mantis.co.uk>
Newsgroups: uk.misc
Subject: Re: Record shops (LPs)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 17:06:03 GMT
Distribution: uk
Organization: Mantis Consultants, Cambridge. UK.

snail@lsl.co.uk writes:
> In article <ag4TVB19w165w@mantis.co.uk>, mathew@mantis.co.uk (mathew) writes:
> > I bought an album on CD for #10.99.  Previously, I had bought it on tape fo
> > #5.99, worn the tape out through repeated listening, bought it on LP for
> > #6.99, and worn the LP out through repeated listening.  Which was cheaper,
> > the LP and tape or the CD?
> 
> Just shows the power of marketing. Next year you'll be telling us about the
> mini-disc player you've bought and the DCC drive you've got.

I don't plan on buying Mini-disc or DCC.  If the music industry
conspiracy kills of CD, I still won't need to buy my album again.  The
CD won't wear out, and I can tape it onto a blank DCC or Mini-disc.

> In answer to the question, The CD was cheaper to the buyer, but very few
> people will have gone through all formats before buying the tape, I just
> find that remarkable.

The point is that records and tapes wear out.  Even if you stick to
just records, they wear out and need to be replaced periodically.
Unless, of course, you don't mind the gradual reduction in sound
quality.  I used to play an album once and tape it, and then listen to
the tape until it wore out.  I'd then tape the album again.  Obviously
this is a lot more hassle than just getting a CD, and the cost of an
album plus good quality blank tape is close to the cost of a CD
anyway.


mathew
-- 
Lung cancer and arteriosclerosis.
For people who like to smoke.
From: pd@x.co.uk (Paul Davey)
Newsgroups: uk.misc
Subject: Re: Record shops (LPs)
Date: 18 Dec 92 13:36:42 GMT
Distribution: uk
Organization: Not a lot
X-Disclaimer: This is not the view of IXI Ltd unless explicitly stated.
X-Copyright: The author asserts the right of paternity in this message.


>>>>> On 16 Dec 92 16:05:53 GMT, steve@acorn.co.uk (Steve "daffy" Hunt) said:

-> T R Stickland (bsstrs@gdr.bath.ac.uk) wrote:
-> : The problem wil digital technology is taht you cannot record everything.

-> Yes and in fact CD players gently roll off the high frequency
-> information before the limit imposed by the sampling freqency to avoid
-> coming to an abrupt ceiling.

-> Although you cannot actually *hear* sound above 20-odd KHz, its
-> absense supposedly alters our subjective perception of the audible
-> lower frequencies.  

I saw Prof. Jack Dinsdale of the University of Dundee lecture on CD's
vs LP's last month in London.

One quote was that CD's finish at 20kHz, whereas good quality LP's
have a frequency range of up 30kHz, and that while you might not be
able to hear a 26kHz tone very clearly, you can hear the difference
between a 26kHz and 27kHz tone. I presume they beat together.

He also said that CD's distort most in the quiet sections (due to
quantisation noise) whereas LP's distort most in the loudest sections.

Summing up he said:

A lot depends on the listener, but you can get sound that is as good
as a CD or some would say better, from an LP.

There were some interesting demos with a Rock Turntable and a top CD
player with some AAA and DDD recordings of the same performance. 

I'd have to say the LP's sounded slightly ``smoother'' to me, but
thats a very subjective opinion.

--
    Regards,			IXI            Internet: pd@x.co.uk
	Paul Davey		Vision Park    UUCP:     pd@ixi.uucp
				Cambridge      Bang:     ...!uunet!ixi!pd
 "These are interesting times"	CB4 4ZR, UK    Tel:      +44 223 236 555
From: snail@lsl.co.uk
Newsgroups: uk.misc
Subject: Re: Libertarian philosophy (was Re: Transport...)
Date: 18 Dec 92 17:32:43 GMT
Distribution: uk
Organization: Laser-Scan Ltd., Cambridge

In article <BzD1Ir.6AK@cck.coventry.ac.uk>, ljp@cch.coventry.ac.uk (Guido) writes:
> In article <29624@castle.ed.ac.uk> fofp@castle.ed.ac.uk (M Holmes) writes:
>>cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Chris Cooke) writes:
>>The scene: A swiss restaurant
>>
>>My Favourite Pudding: Hot Apple Pie and cold Ice cream.
>>
>>Main Problem: My franglaise isn't great :-)
>>
>>Anyway, comes time for pudding I figure out that there's apple pie and
>>something (it wasn't custard) and there's ice cream. So I figure I'll
>>have apple pie and ice cream. Now occasionally in the uk, I come across
>>a waiter who gets difficult, but they can usually be won over with a
>>little persuasion, argument, or sheer bolshiness.
>>
>>Not a swiss waiter though. We get into it and I'm told that I can have
>>apple pie OR ice cream. I point out that they *have* both back in the
>>kitchen, what's the problem? The problem is that apple pie and ice cream
>>is not on the menu. It transpires that it is also impossible to get the
>>apple pie without whatever swiss delight it's smothered in so I can't
>>even have both.
>>
>>My pal advises me to give up, it just can't be done there.
>>
>>Over the visit, I discovered that this attitude is pretty pervasive
>>there. There's no "the customer is always right", it's "Authority is
>>always right." Somewhat disconcerting to me really.
> 
> Well I don't think that this has anything to do with `Authority'.
> The reason you couldn't get what you wanted was because you went
> into a crap restaurant. The menu items were bought in, in pre-packed
> standard portion sizes. You can't get apple-pie without the gunk
> 'cos the gunk is already on it.

Well I agree with Mike on this, and in part I agree with you. However you have
to be pretty cynical (or a victim yourself) to think up a senario like that.
Really appealed to my sense of Humour tho! Thanks.
-- 
snail@lsl.co.uk      

"Washing one's hands of the conflict between the powerful and the powerless
 means to side with the powerful, not to be Neutral."
                                                     Quote by Freire.
                                                     Poster by OXFAM.
From: cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Chris Cooke)
Newsgroups: uk.misc
Subject: Re: Mailing lists from hell
Date: 16 Dec 92 15:57:41 GMT
	<Bz9Dpq.75J@exnet.co.uk> <CAH.92Dec16143519@fat-controller.bham.ac.uk>
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Edinburgh, Scotland

In article <CAH.92Dec16143519@fat-controller.bham.ac.uk> cah@cs.bham.ac.uk (Ceri Hopkins) writes:

   There was a geezer in the States a couple of years ago who was
   prosecuted for misuse of telephone equipment for pulling this stunt.

   Good story though. He was annoyed when he found out his mother had
   pledged money to some religious group after the equivalent of a 0800
   number was advertised on "God TV" or whatever. So he got a computer to
   dial them inter-state at 30 second intervals for ages (a month or
   so?).

   I thought he deserved a medal.

He reckoned that it was worth it, apparently.  It cost him about $10,000 to
deprive the religious group of several million dollars of income.
--
	-- Chris. 	cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk   (on Janet, cc@uk.ac.ed.dcs)
From: snail@lsl.co.uk
Newsgroups: uk.misc
Subject: Re: Transport subsidies - Was: Car Parking
Date: 18 Dec 92 19:38:50 GMT
Organization: Laser-Scan Ltd., Cambridge

I don't have time to reply to this mammoth (nearly 600 lines) but one bit does
stand out, then I'm off for a curry :-).

In article <29705@castle.ed.ac.uk>, fofp@castle.ed.ac.uk (M Holmes) writes:
> smee@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee) writes:
[Mike's odd orchid growers convention...]

>>You are assuming some fairly rich orchid lovers (or else a hell of a lot
>>of them, highly organised) and a fairly poor company.  The reverse is at
>>least as likely.  Go look for newspaper stories about the new Tesco
>>being built (in the face of great opposition) on Golden Hill in Bristol.
>>Even as we speak.
> 
> Is the opposition willing to buy out the land used? If not then the land
> is worth more to Tesco than the opposition. Wealth has been maximised.

No. Economic wealth has been maximised. Social wealth has been minimised
(locally). Perhaps the residents didn't have XXXXX pounds spare. Tesco are a
powerful organisation. They have a lot of money. Just goes to show that money
is power (I'm really getting to like this slogan :-) ).

Right I'll just run 'frontend' (my execuatble don't ya know) and then I'm
off for a curry. I'll be around a bit next week, so you can still flame me,
but then I'm gone for a while. (didn't even finish uk.misc today, let alone
uk.politics).

Good cheer to all.
-- 
snail@lsl.co.uk      

"Washing one's hands of the conflict between the powerful and the powerless
 means to side with the powerful, not to be Neutral."
                                                     Quote by Freire.
                                                     Poster by OXFAM.
From: bsstrs@gdr.bath.ac.uk (T R Stickland)
Newsgroups: uk.misc
Subject: Re: Record shops (LPs)
Date: 15 Dec 92 15:44:54 GMT
Distribution: uk
Organization: School of Biological Sciences, University of Bath, UK

In the referenced article, jrg@doc.ic.ac.uk (James Grinter) writes:
>
>We're told, that the latest players are always getting better and
>reading and playing the data from the CD more accurately. Does this
>give the possibility that the data on the disc, when it was recorded,
>could be incorrect too? Or are they saying that the recording
>equipment has always been perfect, but we've only just fixed the
>players?

Roughly speaking, digital technology allows you to retrieve _exactly_
what you stored.  In case of errors, error correction should restore
the _exact_ original data.

Analogue technology will let you retireve an approximation of what you
recorded.

The problem wil digital technology is taht you cannot record everything.
So you get a nearly perfect copy of part of your original signal only.
These ommisions are what analogue fans find unaaceptable.  On CDs (don't
know if this is down to the format or common to all digital technology)
you particularly miss out on high frequency information.  Cymbals expecially
sound bad, for example.

With analogue technology you get an imperfect, distorted signal, but you
haven't (completely) hacked out certain segments of the information.  Sins
of commission rather than ommision...

This also means that with analogue recordings you can potentially keep
improving the reproduction you get.  With digital technology you are
limited at source - there is only so much information stored...

-- 
# Tim Stickland # bsstrs@gdr.bath.ac.uk # A politician uses science like a    #
# School of Biology, Univ. of Bath,     # drunk uses a lamp post -            #
# Bath, BA2 7AY, U.K. # TEL +44 (0)225  # more for support than illumination. #
# 826826 x5864 # FAX +44 (0)225 826779  #  ('Wildcat', Donald Rooum)          #
From: fofp@castle.ed.ac.uk (M Holmes)
Newsgroups: uk.misc
Subject: Re: Private Health (was Transport subsidies - Was: Car Parking)
Date: 14 Dec 92 10:48:42 GMT
Distribution: uk
Organization: Edinburgh University

Alan.Holmes@brunel.ac.uk (Alan J Holmes) writes:

~In article <29226@castle.ed.ac.uk~ fofp@castle.ed.ac.uk (M Holmes) writes:

~~That's not what I intended to claim. I was asked to point out where the
~~money would come from for a person to pay for road tolls etc and I tried
~~to point out that a substantial amount of returned taxation would be
~~available to do so. The point being of course that money doesn't just
~~disappear. 

~What on earth makes you think that the government will give you
~a reduction in tax if they removed the supply of services from
~general taxation?  I think the money would disapear into the
~bottomless coffers (sp?) of the treasury.

Well, yes. However the argument under discussion was libertarianism. One
of the main ideas of which is to abolish involuntary taxation. That way
it's more a case of whether *you* give it to the government.

Sorry, I think you may have come in at the end of the discussion on this one.


~Regards

~Alan Holmes

Mike Holmes
Newsgroups: uk.misc
From: dingram@dims.demon.co.uk ("Darren P. Ingram")
Subject: Re: Mailing lists from hell 
Distribution: world
Organization: Darren Ingram Media Services
X-Mailer: Simple NEWS 1.90 (ka9q DIS 1.19)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 19:36:02 +0000

In article <1992Dec14.101847.704@city.cs> simon@cs.city.ac.uk writes:

>
>Anyone got any suggestions?

Use their freepost address and enclose a brick:-)

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-Darren P. Ingram / DIMS (dingram@dims.demon.co.uk)   - Views expressed do  -
-184 Brookside Avenue, Whoberley, Coventry CV5 8AD UK - not automatically   -
-Tel:+44 203 717 417/Fax:+44 203 717 418/Tlx 94026650 - represent those of  -
-24-HOUR response number:+44 374 108 268              - DIMS or its clients -
- News, features, marketing & PR support and research/consultancy services  -
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: rap@nnsgs50.lon40.nt.com (Richard Porter)
Newsgroups: uk.misc
Subject: Re: Transport subsidies - Was: Car Parking
Date: 14 Dec 1992 11:36:04 GMT
Organization: BNR Europe Limited
NNTP-Posting-Host: nnsgs50.lon40.nt.com

In article <Bz5uov.30n@ibmpcug.co.uk> gtoal@ibmpcug.co.uk (Graham Toal) writes:
>Since I had just got off the tube from the Olympia about 15 minutes before
>I posted that, I resent the suggestion that I'm lying.  Thats how long
>it took.  Long wait at Olympia, long wait at Edgeware Road at the end of
>the District line.  Left Olympia 5 to 4 when they kicked everyone out; got out
>at Kings Cross just after 5.

You were obviously a bit unlucky on this occasion, but the implication of your
posting was that it normally takes an hour to get from Olympia to Kings Cross.
From: gdb15@grebe.cl.cam.ac.uk (Guy Barry)
Newsgroups: uk.misc
Subject: Re: Gastein Valley
Date: 17 Dec 92 20:47:16 GMT
Reply-To: gdb15@cl.cam.ac.uk
Organization: U of Cambridge Computer Lab, UK

In article <BzDD2A.B7D@cck.coventry.ac.uk> csg264@cch.coventry.ac.uk () writes:
>Having read through every article in this newsgroup I notice that there
>seems to be a distinct lack of European skiers subscribing. 

Well I never!

[Yes I know the original article was crossposted...]

--
Guy Barry, University of Cambridge | Phone: +44 (0)223 334757 
Computer Laboratory                | Fax: +44 (0)223 334678
New Museums Site, Pembroke Street  | JANET: Guy.Barry@uk.ac.cam.cl 
Cambridge CB2 3QG, England, UK     | Internet: Guy.Barry@cl.cam.ac.uk
From: rt@uknet.ac.uk (Roy.Thearle)
Newsgroups: uk.net,uk.misc
Subject: Re: uk.bcs.announce
Date: 18 Dec 92 16:27:01 GMT
Followup-To: uk.net
Distribution: uk
Organization: UKnet

In article <1992Dec16.093051.2510@dct.ac.uk> ccdarg@dct.ac.uk (Alan Greig) writes:
>In the checkgroups posting recently posted by uknet the group
>uk.bcs.announce is listed as unmoderated. This is incorrect and
>should be moderated by mcramm@dct.ac.uk. Could any sysadmins who
>have now set it unmoderated please set it back...
>
>The group uk.bcs.misc is correctly listed as unmoderated.

Apologies for this. A corrected version has now been sent (it also includes
uk.tex).

Roy
--
Roy Thearle - UKnet Backbone Support
UKnet (GBnet Ltd) - The UK branch of EUnet
Connecting Europe since 1982
From: peter@memex.co.uk (Peter Ilieve)
Newsgroups: uk.misc
Subject: Re: Record shops (LPs)
Date: 18 Dec 92 09:33:25 GMT
Distribution: uk
Organization: Memex Information Systems Ltd, East Kilbrde, Scotland

In article <1992Dec17.094832.13698@bristol.ac.uk>
P.Smee@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee) writes:
>
>In article <DBPVVB22w165w@mantis.co.uk> mathew@mantis.co.uk (mathew) writes:
>>
>>The other thing to check with a CD player is that it has *twin* D/A or
>>Bitstream conversion systems.  Cheaper players often share one D/A between
>>left and right, which leads to phase problems.
>
>Um, well, except the phase error is going to be a consistent time delay
>of 1/22000 second (approx) in one channel.  You can compensate for that
>by sitting 1/2 inch closer to the speaker which is 'behind'.

I believe the BBC had trouble with this phase error though.
They still have to care about producing a mono signal, but if you just add
the two stereo channels together all the high frequencies disappear.


		Peter Ilieve		peter@memex.co.uk
From: pho@mserv1.dl.ac.uk (P.Owens,C20,3492)
Newsgroups: uk.misc
Subject: Re: Transport subsidies - Was: Car Parking
Date: 14 Dec 1992 17:04:06 GMT
Organization: Daresbury Laboratory, UK
Distribution: world
Reply-To: pho@mserv1.dl.ac.uk
NNTP-Posting-Host: nnsx.dl.ac.uk

fofp@castle.ed.ac.uk (M Holmes) writes:

>So? Since the people that travle will be paying the tolls directly, they
>won't be charge for the tax thus saved. It balances out except that you
>also save on the government bureacracy involved in the forcible
>collection of the tax.

If your going to start talking about efficiency now then it must
be cheaper for the government bureacracy to collect a pound in
taxes than it is to collect a pound from a toll booth.

---
Pete Owens
P.Owens@daresbury.ac.uk
From: mathew <mathew@mantis.co.uk>
Newsgroups: uk.misc
Subject: Re: Private Health (was Transport subsidies - Was: Car Parking)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 13:42:07 GMT
Distribution: uk
Organization: Mantis Consultants, Cambridge. UK.

halpin@vax.oxford.ac.uk writes:
> In article <T6BkVB12w165w@mantis.co.uk>, mathew@mantis.co.uk (mathew) writes:
> > halpin@vax.oxford.ac.uk writes:
> >> But your gross income is completely notional: you never see it,
> >> it's not what your employer pays for you to work for him, and it is
> >   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >> not what you would be paid in the absence of tax[grab].
> > 
> > Sorry, but where does the money come from that the government takes out of 
> > wages, if not from my employer?  Are you suggesting that the government giv
> > my employer money to give to me, so that they can take it away again?  If s
> > surely that's another excellent argument for reducing the tax grab?
> 
> Your gross income exists only on your payslip - it's *notional*, an
> accounting device. Your employer pays *more* than that for you to
> work for him (Gross + employer's taxes + fringe benefits + coke
> machine for the programmers + costs of space + ...) and he'd pay
> you something completely different if there were no taxes.

Oh, I see.  You're arguing that the employer would actually have even *more*
money that he could pay me than FoFP has suggested.  That's alright then.

> > If my employer is paying less tax, and I'm paying less tax, where are you
> > suggesting that extra money will disappear to?
> 
> I'm psychic! I gave the answer before you asked the question :-)
> (i.e. he'll get most of the extra money, not you).

Hmm.  So why have wages ever increased anywhere?

> I'd like to suggest a correlation between likelihood of benefitting
> from a propertarian-type society and support for free-market       
> ideology, but that'd be (a) inflammatory and (b) a
> less-than-adequate explanation...

Propertarian?


mathew
From: fofp@castle.ed.ac.uk (M Holmes)
Newsgroups: uk.misc
Subject: Re: Transport subsidies - Was: Car Parking
Date: 16 Dec 92 12:08:05 GMT
Distribution: uk
Organization: Edinburgh University

sb380@city.ac.uk (HOLT A D) writes:

>Now I can see some validity in the argument that taxation is a form of theft.
>I can see no way that any form of wealth tax (or any of the three recent
>forms of local taxation: rates, poll tax, council tax) can be defined as other
>than theft.

Agreed.

>But I can weasel out of it for Income, Inheritence, and Purchase/VA taxes 
>on the ground that these tax the *transfer* of resources.

Well, ok. But why should te govrenment be permitted to remove money
without consent when resources are being transferred?

Actually, I agree with you here up to a point. I do agree with taxes on
transfers and trades inasmuch as they represent a *contract*. That
contract may be required to be protected in law for reasons of fraud,
warranty, etc.

Since I advocate that the government's job is to run the justice system
then it's fair to require those who have contracts which need protecting
to pay for the service, probably in the form of a trade tax. On the
other hand, I'd agree with people opting out voluntarily and leaving any
trade unprotected in this way, so long as it was mutually agreed.

Similarly, since the Army and Police are partially there to protect your
property from theft (by foreign or local thieves) there's a case for a
wealth tax on that issue, although it might be best to tax insurance
premiums since the insurers have an interest in working out the riks
involved in different cases.

Of course, since I realise that there are some anarchists who disagree
with being forced to contribute to this level of government, I'd
advocate that they were allowed to opt out of this tax too. Naturally
though, if they were burgled, they'd have no recourse from the Police,
but presumably they reckon that their faith in human nature is well
placed. It's their choice and I'd hate to force my choices on them.

>Andy

FoFP
From: steve@acorn.co.uk (Steve "daffy" Hunt)
Newsgroups: uk.misc
Subject: Re: Glad I Don't Drive
Date: 15 Dec 92 10:33:35 GMT
Distribution: uk
Organization: Acorn Computers Limited, Cambridge, UK
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]

Ridley McIntyre (gdg019@cch.coventry.ac.uk) wrote:
: Yep. Ever had a list of threads that involve nothing but motorised transport?

It's a free(ish) newsgroup.  If you don't like the choice of threads,
start one that does interest you.
-- 
				Steve Hunt	steve@acorn.co.uk
From: cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Chris Cooke)
Newsgroups: uk.misc
Subject: Re: Record shops (LPs)
Date: 16 Dec 92 10:04:32 GMT
Distribution: uk
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Edinburgh, Scotland

In article <ag4TVB19w165w@mantis.co.uk> mathew@mantis.co.uk (mathew) writes:

   I bought an album on CD for #10.99.  Previously, I had bought it on tape for
   #5.99, worn the tape out through repeated listening, bought it on LP for
   #6.99, and worn the LP out through repeated listening.  Which was cheaper,
   the LP and tape or the CD?

A decent cartridge would have been much cheaper in the long run.  Then the
record wouldn't have been worn out by repeated listening...
--
	-- Chris. 	cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk   (on Janet, cc@uk.ac.ed.dcs)
From: mathew <mathew@mantis.co.uk>
Newsgroups: uk.misc
Subject: Re: Record shops (LPs)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 13:23:37 GMT
Distribution: uk
Organization: Mantis Consultants, Cambridge. UK.

jrg@doc.ic.ac.uk (James Grinter) writes:
> We're told, that the latest players are always getting better and
> reading and playing the data from the CD more accurately. Does this
> give the possibility that the data on the disc, when it was recorded,
> could be incorrect too? Or are they saying that the recording
> equipment has always been perfect, but we've only just fixed the
> players?

The mastering technology is improving too.  In the early days it was common
for record companies to use the wrong master.

LP master tapes have pre-emphasis, which means that bits of the frequency
spectrum have been boosted to compensate for the effects of translating the
sound to wiggles on a bit of plastic and back.  This is entirely unnecessary
for CD (and makes 'em sound nasty).

One classic example is Talking Heads' "Speaking in Tongues".  Not only did
they use a master tape with pre-emphasis, they used one which had several
tracks missing.  They've only just re-released the proper version.  (I've
been waiting somewhat impatiently...)


mathew
-- 
Lung cancer and arteriosclerosis.
For people who like to smoke.