From: nicinski@fndaud.fnal.gov (Tom Nicinski)
Newsgroups: rec.photo
Subject: Re: Which 210mm 5.6 copal ?
Date: 26 Jan 1993 19:56:30 GMT
Organization: Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory, Batavia IL
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: fndaud.fnal.gov

In article <C1GvE3.H0D@math.uwaterloo.ca>, accwai@math.uwaterloo.ca (Andy Wai) writes:
|> In article <1993Jan26.113727.9273@spectrum.xerox.com> mcfarland.henr801c@xerox.com writes:
|> >
|> >Prices from B&H (Feb 1993) Sutterbug
|> >
|> >			   price    AoV  IC
|> >
|> >Sinar       Sinaron-s      $797     72   310
|> >Schneider   APO-Symmar     $792     72   305
|> >Rodenstock  Sironar-N      $625     72   301
|> >Nikkor      Symmetrical    $510     72   301

My Nikkor catalog says the Nikkor-W 210 only has a 295mm image circle.  I'll use
that value for calculations below.

|> >
|> >(AoV = angle of view; IC = image circle)
|> >
|> >All of these lenses are 210mm f5.6 copal, ranging in
|> >price from $500 to $800 (all unmounted prices). The cost
|> >difference is presumed to be a quality difference,

You should also look at the shutters.  I suspect they're all Copal 1, in which
case there's no difference.

As for the price, ask whether you're getting the USA importer/manufacturer
warranty.  B&H (a reasonable place to shop) doesn't incluse USA for all their
Nikkors (the one's I'm familiar with).  It may be $30 to $40 more for the USA
warranty.

|> 
|> Probably not.  As far as I know, they're all Plasmat type lenses and they
|> all perform more or less the same.  The Schneider says Apo, but the rest
|> aren't really that far off.  The Nikkor, in particular, is known for it's
|> sharpness and contrast.  I have one in 180mm which I used quite a bit.  It
|> works quite well.

I have the Nikkor-W 210 and it's quite a good lens.  You can ask Schneider to
send you the MTF curves for their lenses (they'll want to know which ones you're
interested in).  I'm not sure if the others offer them (I know Nikon doesn't).

|> 
|> >although
|> >the two top priced lenses do have a larger image circle.

Look at what those image circles really mean in terms of additional camera move-
ments.  The table below is indexed by the image circle.  The movement values are
only for one movement at a time and for a horizontally composed image (for e.g.,
you don't get as much rise/fall if you also swing the lens):

                                                        (mm)        (deg)
Lens                      Length Apert Coverage@f/22 Shift Rise  Swing Tilt
------------------------- ------ ----- ------------- ----- ----- ----- -----
Sinaron-S                  210mm f/5.6  310mm  72deg  82.9  90.5  18.0  20.3
Schneider APO-Symmar       210mm f/5.6  305mm  71deg  80.2  87.8  17.5  19.8
Nikkor-W                   210mm f/5.6  295mm  70deg  74.9  82.3  16.5  18.7

|> 
|> If angular coverage are the same, how can image circle be different?

The angle of coverage is only an approximation.  Use the image circle to get the
actual angle of coverage (72.86 vs. 71.97 vs. 70.17 degrees).

|> 
|> >The question is, how much of a quality difference
|> >is there between the Rodenstock and Schneider that
|> >is worth $160. Similarily, is the Sinar
|> >better or worse than the Schneider ?

From some photographers I've talked to, there are some color differences in the
lenses.  These are generalizations, but the Germans (Schneider and Rodenstock)
tend to be cooler while the Japanese (Fujinon (not imported to the U.S. except
from Del's) and Nikkor) tend to be a bit warmer.  For B&W, this should not be
any problem, but for color, you may want to stick with the same color casts.
I've also talked to a MAC V.P. who, from what I remember, prefers the Roden-
stock lenses for B&W because he liked their tonality.  It's all a matter of
personal taste (just like film).  If you're in a big city, you should be able
to rent some of these lenses out for a day and test them.
 
|> 
|> As far as I know, Sinaron-s is actually relabeled Sironar-N.  The Sinaron
|> may be in DB mount though.  So check before you buy.  Anyway, they're all
|> good enough that they aren't the limiting factor in general.  So don't worry
|> about this kind of thing too much.  (Just my $.02 of course)
|> 
|> Andy Wai
Xref: sparky rec.photo:24199 soc.culture.indian:45034 rec.travel:18121