HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: msvg2539@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Mark V.)
Subject: Re: Phone Calls at 2/3 the Speed of Light
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 21:57:39 GMT
Keywords: phone, telephone, speed

kristaz@bcarh792.bnr.ca (Krista Zeidler) writes:

>In article <1993Jan10.044909.6050@infonode.ingr.com>, krajnatg@infonode.ingr.com (Tom G. Krajna) writes:
>|> While watching the traditional wintertime pigskin fest today, I noticed
>|> an AT&T commercial that showed three red sports cars and listed their
>|> speeds in miles-per-hour.  Next came a red phone (cute, eh?) and listed
>|> its speed: 440,000,000 mph (if I remember correctly).
>|> 
>|> Doing the ol' 186,282 * 3600, though, I get more like 670,615,200.  So
>|> what gives?  Is AT&T using slow lines?  Is my math bad?  More importantly,
>|> will Sprint or MCI run ads touting a 50% speed increase over AT&T?
>|> 


>How about the fact that electrical signals in copper wire run at less than
>the speed of light.  Unless AT&T has completely converted all of their
>lines to fiber (and even that is slightly slower than the speed of light
>in vacuum), they are right not to claim a speed equivalent to that of light
>in vacuum.

>Krista

Look at the ratio of the speed of light (670,615,200 MPH) to the number AT&T
posted in their commercial (440,000,000 MPH). The ratio is 1.52.

The speed of light in something other than vacuum is reduced by the refractive
index of that material. In an optical fiber (a form of glass), the refractive
index is typically close to 1.5 .

I'm sure this is how AT&T derived their number.

-Mark V.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Say you're in a car traveling at the speed of light. You turn on the 
 headlights. Does anything happen?
					-Steven Wright
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: wingo@apple.com (Tony Wingo)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.urban
Subject: Re: Computer theft
Date: 8 Jan 93 18:17:42 GMT
Followup-To: alt.folklore.urban
Organization: Apple Computer

In article <1993Jan3.050838.29514@netcom.com>, bml@netcom.com (Brian
Leibowitz) wrote:
> 
> I heard this story many years ago and was wondering if it really happened.
> 
> A programmer at a bank changed the interest calculations on accounts
> to round down instead of rounding to the nearest penny.  All the fractions
> of pennies were put in a dummy account and then withdrawn.  The bank did
> not notice for a while because the amount of interest paid was still correct
> and the books balanced.
> After the programmer was caught, the bank pressed charges.  The defense
> was that the programmer did not steal from the bank and thus the bank
> had no right to press charges - the depositors as a group would have
> had to press the charges.  The courts agreed and the programmer was
> found not guilty.  The programmer could not be retried due to double
> jeopordy laws.

I first ran into this story around 1969-1970, and it was old then.  

Supposedly the programmer assigned the dummy account an unlikely name
begining with Z (something like Zzyz), and he was caught when the bank did
some sort of promotion that involved giving a prize to the two people with
names at the beginning and end of the account list.

-tony

>>usual disclaimer<<
From: Geoff@equinox.gen.nz (Geoff Mccaughan)
Subject: Re: Federal Reserve Notes (Re: I Live to FAQ!)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.urban
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: 5 Jan 93 21:29:56 +1200
Organization: Equinox Networks

Jeremy Mathers (pynq@quads.uchicago.edu) wrote:

>Since all the big bills were discontinued in 1969, are you saying that
>the largest bill you will see in circulation today (except of course for
>any pre-69's that people might still be circulating, but then again,
>that was, hmmm, 33 years ago...), is a C-note?
                 ^^
Hmmm, which century are you posting from???

--
Geoff, Sysop Equinox (equinox.gen.nz) +64 (3) 3854406 [4 Lines]
                               Voice: +64 (3) 3852101
        "Hi. You have just entered the fourth dimension. Small isn't it?"
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.urban
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Subject: Shamen
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 19:05:03 GMT

In article <1993Jan6.171249.12923@lucrece.robots.ox.ac.uk> neil@robots.ox.ac.uk (Neil Townsend) writes:
>ObUL: The Shamen's `Ebenezer Goode' isn't about drugs, its a song
>about a fictional character inspired by 8 DJ's who are currently
>moving the London scene.
>ObTruth: That's what Mr. C. Shamen said (On MTV-Europe.) Just before
>explaining that he was glad to be back in the south-east [of England]
>because people there really appreciated `experimental dance music.'

Didn't the lead-singer of Shamen drown or something?

ObUL: People have been getting a lot of free dinners from riding elevators
      at Cooperstown.
-- 
ted frank                     | thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu 
standard disclaimers          | void where prohibited
the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637
never shout movie in a crowded firestation
Xref: sparky alt.folklore.urban:33271 rec.arts.startrek.misc:13539
From: linden@positive.Eng.Sun.COM (Peter van der Linden)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.urban,rec.arts.startrek.misc
Subject: The canonical Star Trek plot
Date: 12 Jan 93 02:42:52 GMT
Organization: Boof's house of fish-sticks & software
NNTP-Posting-Host: positive

I'm glad to see that they are *still* using "canonical plot #1" though:

         "Trekkers encounter all-powerful & superior life form
          who don't understand earthlings, initially imprison them,
          but are persuaded to coexist peacefully"

E.g.
         The Cage   (pilot for Star Trek)
         Encounter at Far-Point (first episode of for ST:TNG)
         whatever-this-was-called  (first episode of Deep Throat Nine)

Nice to have some continuity.  
'Course, some originality would be good too...

Please post other canonical Star Trek plots, e.g the one about encountering
two warring primitive cultures & the conflict with the prime directive.

--
Peter van der Linden   linden@eng.sun.com 
   The propagation of chain letters on Internet is forbidden;
   please pass this important information on to all your friends.
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.urban
From: PAPAI@kcgl1.eng.ohio-state.edu (Jonathan Papai)
Subject: Re: Amusing Street Name Consequnces
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 20:29:41 GMT

In article <1993Jan8.144507.23661@ms.uky.edu>,fehr@ms.uky.edu (Jeff Davis) writes:
>In actually very nice Columbus, Ohio -- current home of the longest
>running crush in the Mid West -- two crossing downtown streets bear
>the names Broad St. and High St. The building at their junction is
>aptly named the Broad High Building.
-
	We actually call it the Capitol (sp).  Or do you mean
that other building?  What crush?

ObUL: Even though Columbus, Ohio is the largest Columbus in the world
by a large margin, everybody still appends ",Ohio".

Jon "very nice Columbus, Ohio?" Papai
From: twv@hpcss01.cup.hp.com (Terry Von Gease)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 18:21:35 GMT
Subject: Peter Norton, son of Betty Crocker
Organization: the Lodi Home for the Bald
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.urban

I have it on good authority that Peter Norton, PC weenie extraordinaire,
is really a fictitious persona much like that of Betty Crocker. Purported
photographs of the Bjarnum of Binary are, in fact, fradulent.  Either 
clever renderings or retouched photos of lesser beings.  That his handlers
have caused him to age over the last few years is a nice touch.  Much like 
the faint wisps of grey that have appeared in dear old Betty's do over time.

Terry
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.urban
From: PAPAI@kcgl1.eng.ohio-state.edu (Jonathan Papai)
Subject: Re: No US President Ever Survived an Energy Crisis
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 22:16:20 GMT

cardo@oahu.cs.ucla.edu (Ric Crabbe) writes:
>masticol@cadenza.rutgers.edu (Steve Masticola) writes:
>>Nixon:	First Energy Crisis, 1973. 	Forced to resign, 1974.
>...because he was caught asking people to steal for him.

Probably for obstruction of justice, the coverup.

Nixon could have survived quite easily had he said right
from the start "Yeah, we did it, sorry, won't happen again".

ObUL: Richard, Otis, and Norm Nixon are unrelated.

Jon "Then again, I could be wrong." Papai
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.urban
From: pt@geovision.gvc.com (Paul Tomblin)
Subject: Re: Late breaking potential UL!
Reply-To: pt@geovision.gvc.com
Organization: Not officially GeoVision Systems Inc., Ottawa, Ontario
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 01:22:22 GMT

PAPAI@kcgl1.eng.ohio-state.edu (Jonathan Papai) writes:
>Jon "If Christ and Anti-Christ collide, energy released=mC^2" Papai

Just what _is_ the mass of your average Saviour (or Anti-Saviour as the case
may be), eh?

-- 
Paul Tomblin, speaking from but not for GeoVision Systems Inc.
"He who hasn't hacked assembly language as a youth has no
heart. He who does so as an adult has no brain."
    - John Moore (john@asuvax.eas.asu.edu) on rec.humor.funny
Organization: Junior, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.college,alt.folklore.urban
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 11:50:34 -0500 
From: "Stephen M. Lacy" <sl31+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Architect Suicides
Distribution: world

Excerpts from netnews.alt.folklore.college: 11-Jan-93 Re: Architect
Suicides by turnerbl@ucbeh.san.uc.ed 
> Skibo, wow, it is a really poor design.  How awful to inflict it on the 
> students.  

Just a little bit 'o CMU lore here: Thought it might be relevant at
other campuses too.  

As you know, our "student union" per-say is called "Skibo" and is
disgusting, poorly designed, falling down, etc. etc.   Well, of course,
the university has had plans to demolish it for quite some time, and
guess what the freshman are told "The new university center should be
finished by the time you graduate"  But, as always, they fail to get
funding, or change design, or something like that, and it doesn't get
finished. (or even started for that matter -- they told me Skibo was
going to be demolished last summer)  I'm a junior, and I was told that
the new U.C. would be finished by the time I graduated, people who are
seniors were told the same thing, and so were people who graduated a
year ago.  I'm sure that the freshman of today are still told the same
thing.....too bad its not true....

Steve



"I may be mad, I may be blind, I may be viciously unkind, but I can
still read what you're thinking." -Annie Lennox

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.college
From: tnhe6@isuvax.iastate.edu
Subject: travelling lawn ornament
Reply-To: tnhe6@isuvax.iastate.edu
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 04:03:46 GMT


	I think I remember seeing this in an old National Lampoon. I know
	I've got the issue around here somewhere. I'm pretty sure it
	predates all of these. I'll see if I can find it.


					Tim Bob
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.college
From: mch6@ellis.uchicago.edu (Huitzilopochtli)
Subject: Re: Snoball fight and nudes
Keywords: Freshmen, nude, race, police 
Reply-To: mch6@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 01:49:47 GMT

Well, as for holding the nude olympics on the coldest day of the year, I have only one question :  What if the contest is held on a Saturday, and the temperature sinks to a brisk 5 degrees, the next day having even colder temperatures?  Are the results from the first negated by the fact that it wasn't the coldest night of the year?
	Actuall, my cousin went to Lawrence U. in Appletin, Wi. Apparently, their version of nude olympics is quite a hit. Any input from people at Lawrence is welcomed (I'd like to hear the story again, actually).

matt
Xref: sparky alt.folklore.college:3371 alt.folklore.urban:33069
From: sl31+@andrew.cmu.edu (Stephen M. Lacy)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.college,alt.folklore.urban
Subject: Re: Architecture (Was: Architect Suicides)
Date: 10 Jan 93 01:01:19 GMT
Organization: Junior, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Excerpts from netnews.alt.folklore.college: 9-Jan-93 Re: Architecture
(Was: Arch.. by Mark Brodsky@casbah.acns 
> Yea, we've got a Kresge hall here at NU as well. Just how much money did

There's a Kresge Theatre at the Drama department here at CMU too.  How
many are we up to now?

"Eight o'clock in the morning and the daylight makes me look and feel
like hell" -OMD
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.college
From: scottm@sage.cc.purdue.edu (scott )
Subject: Re: Snoball fight and nudes
Keywords: Freshmen, nude, race, police 
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 04:51:51 GMT

Here at Purdue University, we hold the Nude Olympics at one of our all-male dorms(Cary Quad). From what I understand, if a colder temp. occurs after the olympics are held, people have another - just for the hell of it. So far this year we have had one actual olypics and at least two false alarms.

Scott

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: md@sco.COM (Michael Davidson)
Subject: Re: p_Hungarian Notation
Organization: The Santa Cruz Operation, Inc.
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1993 16:44:55 GMT
Keywords: programing style, var names, Charles Samoyi, Hungarian Notation, C Style


pyotr@halcyon.com (Peter D. Hampe) writes:

>I'm looking for Charles Samoyi's article on "Hungarian Notation"

That's *not* how you spell his name (but I'm not even going to
attempt to spell it) - his name shares some of the characteristics
of his programming style in being hard to pronounce and almost
impossible to spell correctly - see below.

>from about 4 years back.  Its the one where in he 'codified' the
>variable naming convention that has us starting variables
>with mnemonics of the type (e.g. pointers start pVarName, strings
>are sVarName, handles are hVarName, and so on).

>Teacher has recomended this for the betterment of our
>programing lives - but she can't find it, or a reference, so
>she has put out a Quest.  If any one can send/post pointers,
>references, the entire article, I'll be grateful and attempt
>to post a summation.

For your sake I sincerely hope that you can't find a copy of this
article. I have had the misfortune to work on some Microsoft code
that was written in Hungarian style and it was a nightmare!!

Part of the problem may have been that the programmers appeared
to be limiting the length of the identifiers so that everything
was very structured and very terse, so you got variable names like

mpggrgsn
mpgrggr
mpgsndra
mpgsnseg

which were all "mapping tables" (hence the "mp" prefix) that mapped
something to something else ..... One of the disadvantages of highly
structured naming schemes is that it *can* produces names like this
which are very hard to remember, practically unpronounceable, and
very easy to confuse with each other because transposing two characters
canb easily change one identifier into another (but I always though
that these were the very reasons *why* this style was called Hungarian -
it was completely incomprehensible to almost everyone).

I *do* believe that sensible structured naming conventions for
identifiers are "a good thing", but all the examples of Hungarian
that I have seen lead me to believe that it is definitely *not* the
way to go.
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: Charlie_Gibbs@mindlink.bc.ca (Charlie Gibbs)
Subject: Re: VCS processor (was Re: Game machine processors)
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 22:30:19 GMT

In article <1i63h4INN7tu@uniwa.uwa.edu.au> john@gu.uwa.edu.au
(John West) writes:

>Any other evil hardware hacks in production machines? Things that really
>should never have been done?

     How about the 80x86 family?  :-)

     (Or does this belong in the 4004 thread?)

Charlie_Gibbs@mindlink.bc.ca
"It's lonely here, there's no one left to torture."  -- Leonard Cohen
From: magnus@thep.lu.se (Magnus Olsson)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: 4004 instruction set? (was Re: Help needed identifying old Intel chips (4004?))
Keywords: Intel 4004 4002 4001
Date: 5 Jan 93 10:04:43 GMT
Organization: Theoretical Physics, Lund University, Sweden

In article <1993Jan05.031629.373187@sue.cc.uregina.ca> bayko@mercury.cs.uregina.ca (John  Bayko) writes:
>Here is an official product announcement for the 4004, for anyone
>who is interested...

[...]

>    The  heart  of  any  MSC-4  system  is  a  Type 4004 CPU,
>which  incudes  a  set  of  45  instructions. 

Speaking of this, could anyone please post the 4004's instruction set
and programming model? I think that would interesting to compare to
today's architectures...

              Magnus Olsson                | \e+      /_
    Department of Theoretical Physics      |  \  Z   / q
        University of Lund, Sweden         |   >----<           
 magnus@thep.lu.se, thepmo@seldc52.bitnet  |  /      \===== g
PGP key available via finger or on request | /e-      \q
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: dbrooks@osf.org (David Brooks)
Subject: Re: Operating System Destiny
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 17:46:30 GMT

guy@Auspex.COM (Guy Harris) writes:
| >Coincidence or _Something_ More?
| 
| Yes, yes, and Dave Cutler was, I think, the prime mover behind both of
| them.  It's been noted several times before....

...and Dave Cutler is rumored to have grumbled "it took you long enough
to notice."
-- 
David Brooks					dbrooks@osf.org
Open Software Foundation			uunet!osf.org!dbrooks
Shine out, fair sun, with all your heat!  Black winter freezes to his seat...
The boneless fish close quaking lies...the stars in icicles arise!
From: Edward.Rice@p4214.f70.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Edward Rice)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Number of numbers (Was Re: PI)
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1993 01:00:18 -0500

Magnus Olsson said to All: 

  MO> Another is that a number is random if all N-digit sequences have the
  MO> same probability of appearing in its decimal expansion. (A number that
  MO> satisfies this is also called a "normal number").

This doesn't match what I learned in stat.  The number:
 
    3.12345678901234567890 (repeating)

has equal probability of a digit appearing, but isn't random (and the digits are
not pseudo-random) by any interpretation of the term I have ever heard.


Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: alderson@cisco.com (Rich Alderson)
Subject: Re: Mass Bus
Originator: alderson@leland.Stanford.EDU
Reply-To: alderson@cisco.com (Rich Alderson)
Organization: Cisco Systems (MIS)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 01:55:48 GMT

In article <1816@ocpt.ccur.com>, pechter@ocpt (Bill Pechter) writes:
>In article <1993Jan7.072148.1480@netcom.com> sspatter@netcom.com (Samuel Scott Patterson) writes:
>>'lo.
>>
>>     anybody out there got any idea what Mass Bus is?  I have a card in
>>my Unibus PDP-11/34a that has a jack on it and the card is labeled, 
>
>Ah the good old days.
>
>The Massbus is a 32 bit bus used for disk and tape drives.  It's 
>a syncronous  (I think) bus that was specific to the DEC RM02/3/5
>RP04/5/6 disk drives and TU16/TE16/TU45/TU77/TU78 tape drives.

Not exactly.  It was a 54-pin bus, but 18 bits were data, not 32.

RP07s are native Massbus, too.

TU72 tapes and RP20 disks were IBM-style bus-and-tag, with a controller that
translated to Massbus.

>The controller was an RH11 (PDP11), RH70 (PDP11/70 PDP11/74), RH780
>or RH750 (I'm skipping the KA/KL 36 bit stuff like the RH20 'cause 
>I never had much to do with them and I don't want to mislead).

Prior to the KL, there was no Massbus.  The IO bus on a KA or KI was another
beast altogether.  And it was in use on KLs, too for things like the IMP
network connection.

>The Massbus was DEC's answer to IBM BUS and TAG cables and channel adapters.
>They were proprietary.  The connectors were also subject to failure from
>improper use.

Can you say "bent pins"?  I knew you could!  :-)

I was never in the -11 world (other than as the FE for my 20's), so I can't
address that side.  (Well, one phonetics lab I worked in had an -11, but I
didn't do too much with it other than erasing the working copy of Adventure by
accident. :-)
-- 
Rich Alderson   'I wish life was not so short,' he thought.  'Languages take
                such a time, and so do all the things one wants to know about.'
                                                        --J. R. R. Tolkien,
alderson@leland.stanford.edu                              _The Lost Road_
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.arch,comp.sys.intel
From: karl@ddsw1.mcs.com (Karl Denninger)
Subject: Re: NeXTstep not running on Cyrix 486DLC (was Re: Apple IIGS...)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 03:05:13 GMT
Organization: MCSNet, Chicago, IL

In article <C0noJA.EpM@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> lemson@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (David Lemson) writes:
>aj923@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (P. J. Remner) writes:
>
>
>>It should.  A 486 is much faster than a 386 of the same speed.  Case in
>>point: The 486SX/25 (like the one I'm using now) is a little faster than
>>an AMD 386/40, but the 486SX is upgradeable for $450.
>
>What?  I have seen two benchmarks that put the 386/40 at a faster
>cpu speed than the 486SX/25.
>I think that anyone who buys either is crazy right now.  Buy at
>least a 486DX/33, or you are throwing your money away if you ever
>intend to need full-blown 486 power.

Only the cost of the CPU if you buy wisely.  Buy a clone machine which has
the universal socket complement (386/486SX/486DX/Overdrive).  They're out
there.  I have one in my PC, and the flexibility for the future I have is
well worth the extra (~$10.00) cost that I had to put up front.  The board I
have can run up to 50Mhz clock rates and use any of the processors named
above.  Move a few jumpers and put the chip in the appropriate socket.
There is also a Weitek 4167 socket on the board.

I am, of course, gambling that the 486/DX50s will be cheap in a year or so.
The 486SX/25 was, for now, extremely cheap.  I can afford to toss $100 or 
so of processor chip a year or two down the road; the expensive part (the
board) is still useful even in that event.

--
Karl Denninger (karl@ddsw1.MCS.COM, <well-connected>!ddsw1!karl)
Data Line: [+1 312 248-0900]
From: kiki@bass.bu.edu (Keith Baccki)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Apple IIGS being discontinued Dec 1992
Date: 11 Jan 93 00:38:28 GMT
Reply-To: kiki@bass.bu.edu (Keith Baccki)
Followup-To: alt.folklore.computers
Organization: Boston University

In article <1993Jan2.053341.4665@ra.msstate.edu> jmpierce@whale.st.usm.edu (Jimmy Malcolm Pierce) writes:
>
> (P. J. Remner) writes:
>>And then a madman runs into the room with a megaphone and yells, "ERASE
>>HARD DISK!!!!!"....
>

	Holy cow!!!! A madman just ran in the lab here, pushed me out
of my chair and typed 'rm -r *;logout' !!!!! Oh whatever will I do?

>   Of course the computers are set to recognize the peoples' voices
>who work in only that room { And selected supervisors, so the machines 
>can be reset }. And those who work there do a 'hangup' on their
>microphones, laugh at the idiot who provided them with a moments 
>entertainment, call security, and after security removes the idiot, 
>resumes work. No big deal.
>

	If you're using an OS that doesn't ask for confirmation of
THAT action, then you deserve it...


				
			keith

Lines: 16
Date: Thu,  7 Jan 93 09:55:40 MST
From: kelly@baloo.ee.byu.edu (J. Kelly Flanagan)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.arch,comp.sys.intel
Subject: Re: NeXTstep not running on Cyrix 486DLC (was Re: Apple IIGS...)
	<1ide2jINNru@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>
	<1993Jan6.091513.7530@news.columbia.edu>



	Why so much conversation over so little??????????

	The difference in cost of the 486DLC and a real processor
	(486DX 25, 33, or 50 MHz) is very little when the cost of the
	entire system is considered.

	Lets get back to discussing important, interesting
	architectures and not the differences between toys.

Kelly
kelly@ee.byu.edu	--	These are my own opinions


	
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,alt.folklore.urban,alt.religion.kibology,alt.fan.warlord,alt.geek