HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: merlyn@ora.com (Randal L. Schwartz)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: Re: Tell Viacom Cable to add the SCI-FI Channel
Date: 30 Sep 92 16:01:12 GMT
Article-I.D.: romulus.MERLYN.92Sep30090108
	<1992Sep29.192720.12774@data-io.com>
Distribution: pnw
Organization: Stonehenge Consulting Services; Portland, Oregon, USA

In article <1992Sep29.192720.12774@data-io.com> jewell@Data-IO.COM (Cal Jewell) writes:
   #or even Channel 29 (badly-made, out-of- #focus local access)

   Until the laws get changed, public access is the law of the land.
   Cable companies are required to offer production facilities to any
   cable subscriber and to air the resulting programs unedited and 
   uncensored. Besides, where else would you see Sister Paula? Amazing
   stuff.

Sister Paula? So *that's* where Paula is playing in Seattle!

Hey, don't look too close at the credits for that show (especially the
new fall season).  You may see a familiar name (c.f. the .sig file
below).

By the way, Sister Paula was interviewed by Joan Rivers two days ago,
and will be appearing on the show broadcast by WGN on Wednesday,
October 5th.

Just another video producer (with some gems and some duds :-),

--
Randal L. Schwartz / Stonehenge Consulting Services (503)777-0095
merlyn@reed.edu (guest account) merlyn@ora.com (better for permanent record)
cute quote: "Welcome to Portland, Oregon -- home of the California Raisins!"
Newsgroups: pnw.general,rec.music.folk
From: David Ruggiero <osiris@halcyon.com>
Subject: Re: Save the Folklife Festival...City Council meeting Thursday
Originator: osiris@halcyon.com
Reply-To: osiris@halcyon.halcyon.com (David Ruggiero)
Organization: Northwest Nexus Inc. (206) 455-3505
Distribution: pnw
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 16:29:03 GMT

[Since kaliyuga's post went out with a bad subject line, I will re-quote 
 most of it here...] kaliyuga@carson.u.washington.edu writes:

  There will be a public hearing at 7 pm Thursday, October 8, 1992 in
  the City Council Chambers, Municipal Building, 11th floor, 600 Fourth Ave
  in downtown Seattle. Seattle Center proposes to begin charging an
  admission to Northwest Folklife Festival this year and into the future.
  Folklife has been free to all for the entire 21 years of its history. Over
  7000 people volunteer their time and energy to make it the most fun of all
  the public events held in Seattle. Performers and many other individuals
  donate their services, and more than 80% of the cost of the festival comes
  from donations, sales, and corporate and foundation support. Many other
  cultural events are held free of charge at Seattle Center, which is part
  of its reason for being, as stated in its mission statement. 

  Now Seattle Center management has singled out Folklife from all the other
  non-commercial events held there, to attempt to begin charging. Please
  call all the members of the City Council (684-8888) and the Mayor
  (684-4000) and ask them to prevent this from happening. Also please attend
  the City Council public hearing and speak up against the fees. Many
  families attend the whole long weekend with their kids. If there was a
  fee, more would not be able to do so. 

  Please call Northwest Folklife for more information on how you can help
  prevent this wonderful cultural event from being limited and
  commercialized (684-7300), and please attend the public hearing. Go at
  6:30 to sign up to speak.

David sez:

The only thing I would add to this post is some background: Seattle Center,
like all Seattle City departments, has a mandated 1% budget cut this year.
This amounts to $200,000, which is the estimated value they place on the
in-kind services they "give" to Folklife. Essentially, they are trying
to balance their budget entirely on the backs of the Festival, a terrible
and completely visionless piece of bureaucratic hand-washing that saves the
Center from having to make some *real* choices about their fiscal outlays.

If you want Folklife to be like Bumbershoot, with huge lines and locked gates
and ever-rising admission charges, then perhaps you don't really care about
this. If you *do* care, make your opinion felt - as the poster stated above,
either in person or by phone.

Feel free to call me if you have any questions....547-6060.

  

-- 
David Ruggiero  (osiris@halcyon.com)      Seattle, WA
Newsgroups: pnw.general
From: ckd@eff.org (Christopher Davis)
Subject: Re: Protest Vote '92  (Was: Don't waste your vote on Bush or Clinton)
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation Tech Central
	<1992Sep27.185512.22951@mdd.comm.mot.com>
	<1992Oct3.165759.329@splat.hf.intel.com>
	<1992Oct05.143015.13877@microsoft.com> <43674@ogicse.ogi.edu>
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 20:05:48 GMT

Kim> == Kim Flowers <kimf@ogicse.ogi.edu> 

 Kim> Therefore we should stop trying to ban guns, and ban gun
 Kim> manufacturing!  It's a little easier to find a gun factory than a
 Kim> gun.

I guess that's why the War on (some) Drugs has been so successful in
shutting down the drug factories instead of going after the drugs.
--
Christopher K. Davis      |       NET.INSIGHTS INTO ARTISTIC CRITICISM:
<ckd@eff.org>   EFF #14   | ``[Y]ou don't cure bad art by locking it all up
System Administrator, EFF | in one museum, you cure it by throwing tomatoes
+1 617 864 0665  [CKD1]   | at bad artists.'' --Barry Shein <bzs@world.std.com>
Newsgroups: pnw.general
From: briank@ars2.uucp (D. Brian Kimmel)
Subject: Newsgroup Creation (Was Proposal for pnw.motss)
Organization: Automated Retail Systems, Seattle, Wa
Distribution: pnw
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 21:13:38 GMT

In <1992Oct5.045443.1553@seanews.akita.com> billmcc@seanews.akita.com (Bill McCormick) writes:

>I propose that we adopt a protocol similar to the mainstream Usenet
>heirarchy, adapted for the fewer readers of the pnw newsgroups.
>Specifically that votes be held according to the newsgroup creation
>guidelines and that instead of the 100 votes with a 2/3 majority we
>use 25 votes with a 2/3 majority.

I think this is overkill, requiring 25 votes.
I just did
	fgrep "#N" /u/uumaps/* | grep -l
and got 15,466
	fgrep "#N" /u/uumaps/u.usa.wa* | grep -l
and got 305
'or' got 271 and 'id' got 12.  Add 67 if you want to add 'can.bc'.
This gives the 

Thus with 4% of the computer population (based on uucp maps) this proposal
would require 25% of the worldwide vote.

This seems to me to be much too restrictive.

As I see it, the purpose of news is to allow a free flow of information
and ideas between people with similar interests/needs.  Balanced
against this need/desire for free information flow is the requirement to
keep the news system manageable.

I would therefore offer this counter proposal:
    In the seattle and pnw local heirarchy a newsgroup may be created
    *except* if at least 50% of the people voting object and at least
    5 people vote.  

Comments?
-- 
D. Brian Kimmel           /    briank@ars2.UUCP   \   The Emerald City....
Director of R & D        \  Voice: (206) 325-8922  / Seattle, Washington.
Automated Retail Systems  \  Fax: (206) 325-9127  / Standard disclaimer(s).
Newsgroups: pnw.general
From: elf@halcyon.com (Elf Sternberg)
Subject: Re: Proposal for pnw.motss
Originator: elf@halcyon.com
Reply-To: elf@halcyon.com (Elf Sternberg)
Organization: Pendor, UnLtd.
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 22:05:39 GMT

In article <1992Oct04.055142.552@microsoft.com>
     georgere@microsoft.com (George V. Reilly) writes:

>There are dozens of posters to soc.motss and soc.bi at
>the University of Washington and the other universities on the
>net in the PNW and (presumably) hundreds of readers.  And then
>there are the readers and posters at the small commerical and
>public-access sites.

   Such as Halcyon, Polari, and Seanews.  Let me toss my voice into
this and say that the mail-list route has been tried and has worked
sufficiently; I think it's time pnw.motss came into being.

>As Wendy Thrash pointed out, "if you build it, they will come."
>This is true for roads and it's true for newsgroups.

   Very true.

            Elf !!!
-- 
Elf Sternberg    __   |     I have looked into the abyss, and the abyss
elf@halcyon.com  \/   | has looked into me.  Neither liked what we saw.
elf@polari.online.com |                              - Brother Theodore
From: jerryg@ssd.intel.com (Jerry Gaiser)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: Re: Cable Access (was Re: Tell Viacom Cable to add the SCI-FI Channel)
Date: 29 Sep 92 17:15:25 GMT
Article-I.D.: SSD.1992Sep29.171525.16306
Organization: Supercomputer Systems Division, Intel Corp.

In article <MERLYN.92Sep29091610@romulus.reed.edu> merlyn@ora.com (Randal L. Schwartz) writes:
>Cable access... use it or lose it.  It's your chance to say what you
>want about what you want and get it out to the community without
>worrying about what censors or sponsors will limit for you.
>
>(Yes, I'm biased.  I'm chairman of the board of Tualatin Valley
>Community Access, providing 9 channels of public, educational, and
>government access to 65,000 subscribers in Oregon.  And I vote. :-)
>
>Just another video producer,

As a viewer of the Columbia Cable system and a frequent viewer of the 
public access channels, I can say there _are_ some gems buried there.
-- 
Jerry Gaiser
         Usenet: jerryg@ssd.intel.com
        Fidonet: 1:105/380
           PBBS: n7pwf@n7pwf.or.usa.na
From: del@fnx.uucp (Dag Erik Lindberg)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: Re: Proposal for pnw.motss
Keywords: new newsgroup motss for pnw
Date: 1 Oct 92 18:06:29 GMT
Distribution: pnw
Organization: I/Ovations

In <1992Sep30.165819.6672@xzact.com> minerva@xzact.COM (Darci L. Chapman) writes:
>Since we know of no formal policy for pnw newsgroup creation and unless 
>there are strenuous objections, a newgroup with a pnw distribution 
>will be issued on October 14, giving a roughly two week discussion 
>period. If someone knows of a policy on such things, we'll be happy 
>to follow it if they'll send it to me.

There is no formal policy because it hasn't been necessary.  This does
not mean that anyone should go creating groups willy-nilly.  The net is
a cooperative effort, and succeeds to the degree that we cooperate.  We
recently went through this discussion in seattle.admin.  You have taken
the appropriate first step:  announcing your intent and allowing a
discussion period.  However, your criteria for creating the new group is
flawed, IMHO.  Rather than creating the group if there are no
objections, the group should only be created if there is SIGNIFICANT
SUPPORT of the group.

>Estimated traffic will average around 5 messages/day, based on the
>traffic on the pdx-motss mailing list.  Traffic may be a little higher 
>for the next few months as Oregon's Measure 9 battle, and similar 
>efforts getting underway in Washington, probably will be a frequent 
>topic of discussion.

Why is this group needed?  Is there some reason why the minimal traffic
couldn't be supported in pnw.general?   It's not like pnw.general is
flooded with new messages every day.  I would prefer to see any relevant
issues discussed in pnw.general until such time as there is either
a) sufficient traffic to justify a new group b) some other overriding
reason why the traffic is not appropriate for the pnw.general group.

-- 
del AKA Erik Lindberg                             uunet!pilchuck!fnx!del
                          Who is John Galt?
From: bobk@dogear.spk.wa.us (Bob Kirkpatrick)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: Re: Proposal for pnw.motss
Date: 5 Oct 92 13:52:57 GMT
Article-I.D.: dogear.yec7RB2w165w
Organization: Dog Ear'd Systems of Spokane, WA

billmcc@seanews.akita.com (Bill McCormick) writes:

> In article <BvMCLw.AtK@agora.rain.com> rickc@agora.rain.com (Rick Coates) wri
> >I understand the concern about too many pnw groups (agora receives all
> >of five, three of which even have postings), but, ya know, it *could*
> >be deleted, if necessary.
> >
> >Let's give it a shot.
> 
> This seems to have turned into a holy war.  It's OK with me -- so at
> least SEANEWS will carry it.

Amen. I have no objections to the group, and believe that the proponents
have made a reasonable case for it. I don't think it's gone Holy War, 
though. Comments and discussion were asked for, and given. No big deal.

> The discussion here has brought up once again that there isn't a method
> of adding and deleting regional newsgroups.
> 
> I propose that we adopt a protocol similar to the mainstream Usenet
> heirarchy, adapted for the fewer readers of the pnw newsgroups.
> Specifically that votes be held according to the newsgroup creation
> guidelines and that instead of the 100 votes with a 2/3 majority we
> use 25 votes with a 2/3 majority.

Dunno on this one. The only group creation in a few years that irked me
was pnw.personals. I had no objections to the group, but was annoyed by
the arbitrary stance that the creator took. "I'm doing this, screw all
of you who don't like it." As such, his newgroup went into the trash
can here.

If folks do decide to put a procedure in place, I'll support it. But I
don't think that pnw.motss should be held up waiting for one. (Didn't
think you were advocating this, I'm just thinking aloud.) :-)


--- 
Bob Kirkpatrick <bobk@dogear.spk.wa.us>
Dog Ear'd Systems of Spokane, WA
From: dbrooks@misty.boeing.com (David Brooks)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: WANTEDL[D-METHOW LAND
Date: 5 Oct 92 21:15:58 GMT
Organization: Boeing Commercial Airplane BCS Support

I'm looking for land in the Methow valley (North Central Washington).  I 
particularly like the Twisp/Carlton end of the valley, but am open to looking
at anything you might have available.  I prefer a situation where new or 
existing construction will not be particularly visible (i.e. somewhat
isolated).  If you have land or know anyone who does, send email or call at
(206) 783-3142

Thanks, David

******************************************************************

dbrooks@misty

*****************************************************************
Newsgroups: pnw.general
From: jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton)
Subject: Re: Proposal for pnw.motss
Keywords: new newsgroup motss for pnw
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Distribution: pnw
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 17:25:25 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.090025.12581@beaver.cs.washington.edu> 
wendyt@cs.washington.edu (Wendy Thrash) writes:
>
>This depends on the region.  The San Francisco Bay Area, for example,
>has long had ba.motss,   I believe there's also a ba.politics, though
>perhaps I'm confusing it with ca.politics.

Here's a list of ba. groups carried by Netcom, from /usr/lib/news/active.  I 
don't know what the numbers at the end of the line mean, but I assume they're 
related to volume.  

ba.announce 0000311 00302 m
ba.general 0012707 12447 y
ba.food 0009896 09786 y
ba.forsale 0000001513 01460 y
ba.internet 0000563 00525 y
ba.israelis 0000147 00148 y
ba.jobs.misc 0000000510 00499 y
ba.jobs.offered 0000002495 02330 y
ba.market 0000000707 00708 x
ba.market.computers 0008872 08654 y
ba.market.housing 0007635 07377 y
ba.market.misc 0016075 15801 y
ba.market.vehicles 0007576 07464 y
ba.motss 0004197 04126 y
ba.mountain-folk 0000723 00705 y
ba.music 0004612 04504 y
ba.news 0001816 01816 y
ba.news.config 0000272 00272 y
ba.news.group 0000547 00548 y
ba.news.stats 0002854 02831 y
ba.politics 0012837 12580 y
ba.seminars 0002228 02215 y
ba.singles 0006751 06649 y
ba.sports 0001371 01358 y
ba.test 0004297 04246 y
ba.transportation 0005733 05675 y
ba.wanted 0000000471 00460 y
ba.weather 0006640 06621 y
ba.windows.x 0000574 00561 y
ba.dance 0000000082 00068 y
ba.broadcast 0000000160 00152 y
ba.motorcycles 0000000466 00339 y


-- 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Hamilton   jfh@netcom.com   P. O. Box 281107   SF, CA   94128-1107
From: bobk@dogear.spk.wa.us (Bob Kirkpatrick)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: Re: Tell Viacom Cable to add the SCI-FI Channel
Date: 29 Sep 92 07:24:21 GMT
Article-I.D.: dogear.aFquRB1w165w
Organization: Dog Ear'd Systems of Spokane, WA

wendyt@tera.com (Wendy Thrash) writes:

> Jim Lubin suggests we call Viacom to request the Sci-Fi Channel.
> Sounds fine, but what will they remove?  If I could get them to
> dump Channel 34 (all religion, all the time) or Channel 33 (shop
> till long after you drop) or even Channel 29 (badly-made, out-of-
> focus local access) I'd be happy, but I don't want to lose anything
> interesting, and I'm afraid they'd dump Channel 32 (Canadian TV,
> on those rare occasions when it hasn't been blacked out) or Channel
> 30 (second PBS option -- probably the most likely to go).
> 
> Anybody know what they might drop?  Somehow I doubt it would be 34.
> Maybe if we all promised to go to the church of their choice 34 would
> go away.
> ---

The sci-fi channel is on 41 here in Spokane.

Don't tell me that eastside Washington, the poor relative to the
gold coast has a one up on the west????

Omigawd.

--- 
Bob Kirkpatrick <bobk@dogear.spk.wa.us>
Dog Ear'd Systems of Spokane, WA 
Newsgroups: pnw.general,alt.politics.elections
From: guest@splat.hf.intel.com (subnet guest)
Subject: Re: Protest Vote '92  (Was: Don't waste your vote on Bush or Clinton)
Organization: Industrial Computing Division - Intel Corp. - Hillsboro Or.
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 92 16:57:59 GMT

In article <1992Sep27.185512.22951@mdd.comm.mot.com>, zintel@mdd.comm.mot.com (Mike Zintel) writes:
> Gun control is not a panacea, however the assertion that a proliferation of
> guns will reduce killing is equally misguided.


I agree.

Prohibition of guns would be just as effective as the prohibition of 
alcohol was earlier this century or the prohibition of (some) drugs
is now.  Criminals, by definition, do not respect laws.  How many times
must this lesson be repeated before it sinks in to the 'legislate
away society's problems' crowd?  How can we redirect the focus of
these well-meaning but misguided citizens from the tools associated
with unacceptable behavior to the root causes of the behavior?


Dennis Willson    dgw@marvin.hf.intel.com
From: merrillg@polari.online.com
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: I am rooting for USC :)
Date: 3 Oct 92 00:02:17 GMT
Article-I.D.: polari.1992Oct3.000217.21512
Organization: Seattle Online Public Access Unix.  (206) 328-4944 (all lines telebit-equipped)

I just graduated from 'SC, and wanted to see a Dawg get cut down :)


-- 
================================================================
		HELL		HEAVEN	|
Cooks		English		French	|
Cops		German		English	|
From: del@fnx.uucp (Dag Erik Lindberg)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: Re: Proposal for pnw.motss
Keywords: new newsgroup motss for pnw
Date: 3 Oct 92 00:45:26 GMT
Distribution: pnw
Organization: I/Ovations

In <1992Oct2.193143.8265@amc.com> john@amc.com (John Sambrook) writes:

>Volume can be a reason to create a newgroup, but it isn't the only
>reason for creating one, nor is volume a necessary precondition.  What

Agreed.

>matters, according to the accepted rules, is that you be able to
>convince sufficient people to vote for your proposed group.

You have misinterpreted the function of the 'accepted rules' here.  The
purpose of the rules is to foster a discussion of why the newsgroup
should be created, and then to show that there is an interest in the
group sufficient to justify it's burden to the net.  The way you state
it, the rules are merely an obstacle to your desire, which can be
subverted by convincing people (that may have no interest in the group) to
vote for it.

-- 
del AKA Erik Lindberg                             uunet!pilchuck!fnx!del
                          Who is John Galt?
From: mnb@voodoo.boeing.com (Mike Burr)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: Perot in the White House?
Date: 2 Oct 92 23:13:33 GMT
Distribution: pnw
Organization: Boeing Graphics project, Bellevue WA

In article <1992Oct2.021956.22831@polari> dwdyer@polari.online.com writes:
>
>OK, he's back in.  But, he keeps claiming still that he wants ISSUES to be
>the "issue".  Fine.  Gimme some details, Ross!  He won't.  He wants to be
>the head honcho, and by that I mean the one in power to decide which plan to
>enact AT THE TIME.

I agree.  My impressions of Perot are that he is only comfortable in
being the *sole* authority.  While this is possible in your own company,
how is this going to work with congress getting in the way all the time?
Can he handle it?  I have my doubts.  I can just see him being the first
president to say "Thats it, I've had it.  If you won't play my way then
I'm going home!".  I've already witnessed his short temper with an 
"uncooperative" press.... I've got my doubts folks.


-- 
Michael Burr   mnb@voodoo.boeing.com  | Boeing Computer Services, Bellevue WA
Newsgroups: pnw.general
From: merrillg@polari.online.com
Subject: Wanted! UW-USC tickets
Organization: Seattle Online Public Access Unix (206) 328-4944
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 01:32:59 GMT

WANTED! USC-UW tickets!
2-3 tickets for the UW-USC football game this coming weekend
please email back here
merrillg@polairi.online.com

thanx
Greg


-- 
================================================================
		HELL		HEAVEN	|
Cooks		English		French	|
Cops		German		English	|
From: wendyt@cs.washington.edu (Wendy Thrash)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: Re: Proposal for pnw.motss
Keywords: new newsgroup motss for pnw
Date: 2 Oct 92 09:00:25 GMT
Article-I.D.: beaver.1992Oct2.090025.12581
Distribution: pnw
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, U. of Washington, Seattle

In article <1992Oct2.042848.12610@nwnexus.WA.COM> osiris@halcyon.halcyon.com (David Ruggiero) writes:
>I don't know the answers (though I'm sure others will have opinions!),
>but I do know that such regional groups are the exception, not the
>rule; regional groups tend towards far more general interest topics
>(foocity.forsale, foocity.jobs.offered, etc.) -- and I think there are some
>good reasons behind this. . . .

This depends on the region.  The San Francisco Bay Area, for example,
has long had ba.motss,   I believe there's also a ba.politics, though
perhaps I'm confusing it with ca.politics.

I don't think that the congestion of soc.motss is a sufficient reason
for a regional group, particularly since a fair share of that congestion
of late has been originating in this region.  Are there matters of purely
regional interest that could best be discussed in pnw.motss?  Certainly.
Would there be enough traffic of purely regional interest to justify the group?
Here's my prediction:  If you build it, they will come.  Moreover, given
that some people have already suggested that there would be no such traffic,
I would not be surprised to see enough Gay and Lesbian traffic in pnw.general
from now on to convince the staunchest defender of small newsgroup hierarchies
that just one more couldn't hurt.  Come to think of it, there are a few
things I've been wondering about. . . .
---
-Wendy T., pnw.generalist
From: bobk@gibdo.engr.washington.edu (Bob)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: Re: Protest Vote '92  (Was: Don't waste your vote on Bush or Clinton)
Date: 30 Sep 92 23:01:39 GMT
Article-I.D.: gibdo.1992Sep30.225630.14334
Organization: University of Washington


  Remember, if you want to do your civic duty and register a protest
  vote you must register at least 30 days before the election (Saturday,
  October 3rd is the last day).

  You can register at most fire stations, public libraries and public
  schools, but call ahead to make sure.
  ==

  Bob                                        Seattle, Washington
Newsgroups: pnw.general