From: Ross Ridge <ross@zooid.guild.org>
Subject: Re: Interesting facts about bicycles in Ontario (from MoT)
Organization: ZOOiD BBS
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 08:24:37 GMT

evan@telly.on.ca (Evan Leibovitch) writes:
>There are more than 3 million bicycles and 2 million cyclists in Ontario.
>...not one of which must be checked for roadworthiness at any time.

Ross Ridge <ross@zooid.guild.org> writes:
>Why should they be?  Unlike cars, a poorly maintained bike doesn't
>result in more polution.

evan@telly.on.ca (Evan Leibovitch) writes:
>Besides the point. (When you don't have a reasonable answer, I guess you
>can always throw up the old pollution argument...)

Sorry, your the one without a reasonable answer.  Why on earth should
the goverment go the through the expense of checking bicycles when
they clearly pose much, much, less of risk to society than cars. 

>Are you really saying there's nothing wrong with having poorly
>maintained bikes on main roads?

Not enough to warrant mandatory inspections.

>>Unlike cars, bikes don't kill, mutalate and injure thousands of people
>>every year.  
>
>Then why the push for helmets? The only reason bike don't injure as many
>as cars is because there are fewer bikes on the major roads.

Cars kill and injure people at a much, much, greater rate than bicycles.  

>>Again why should they be?  An unlicenced cyclist is less of a danger
>>to society than a licenced motorist.  
>
>That someone believes this is really dangerous. A licence can be revoked
>from a bad motorist. There is no such manner with which to keep a bad
>cyclist off the road.
>
>Or are you really suggesting that there are no bad cyclists?

I'm suggesting the bad cyclists don't pose enough problem to warrant
the government going through the expense of licencing cyclists.

>>>...such legistlation being rarely heeded and never enforced...
>>
>>For cars too...
>
>I got stopped by police a few years ago because the light over my rear
>licence plate was burned out. This kind of surveilance is also not
>heavily enforced, by whatever it is, it's greater than the non-existant
>checking of bicycles.

It's needed for cars, it's not needed for bicycles.

>>>A little knowledge of the rules of the HTA, required as a requisite for
>>>driving bicycles on major roads, wouldn't hurt either.
>
>>An even better idea would be to improve testing procedures for motor
>>vehicle licencing, it's clear too many motorists ingore the HTA making
>>Canadian roads just about the most dangerous in the world.
>
>Such is the mind of the cyclist apologist, to whom cyclists can do no
>wrong and motorists can do no right. Saying that motorists ignore the
>HTA dances around the issue that cyclists aren't even required to know
>the basics of it.

Cyclist are required to know all of it.  Ignorance of the law of is no
excuse.  But requiring testing of cyclists of complete waste of tax
payer money.

>>One driver going 120km/h on the 401 is more dangerous than legions
>>of cyclists riding on the sidewalk.
>
>Proof, please. This is a myth.

Consider the force of impact of one 2 ton car going 120km/h.  Now consider
how many 30kg bicycles going 20km/h you'ld need to equal the force of impact.  


>>You're just blowing a lot of
>>smoke here, bicycles don't cause anywhere near the problems that
>>cars do. 
>
>Which of course excuses the problems that bikes cause.
>
>I never said cars and motorists don't cause problems. I just suggest
>that the glowing terms with which bikes are referred to aren't so
>glowing. And the cyclist's habit of constantly avoiding the issue of
>poor cycling practices by citing poor motoring practices became tiresome
>long ago.

Personally I'm sick of motorists trying to excuse their own bad driving
habits by blaming cyclists.  Your the one avoid the real issue dangerous
driving on the roads.  Canada has about most dangerous roads in the
world (according to UN's Human Development Report 1992), and it's not
because of bicyclists.

>>>>The bicycle industry and related tourist activities contribute more than
>>>>$150 million a year to the Ontario economy.
>>>
>>>Which would be spent elsewhere in the economy if it wasn't spent here. Yawn.
>>
>>Not true at all.
>
>So if people didn't spend money on bikes, they'd just keep it in the
>bank? Riiight.

Yes.  They'd also spend it outside of Ontario.

>Absolutely amazing. Not a single response that doesn't duck the issue by
>bitching about cars.

Someone who recklessly ingores posted speed limits has no right bitching
about bicycles. 

							Ross Ridge

-- 
Ross Ridge - The Great HTMU					     l/	 //
								    [OO][oo]
ross@zooid.guild.org						    /()\/()/
uunet.ca!zooid!ross						     db	 //