HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: METZE@uimrlm.mrl.uiuc.edu (Virginia Metze)
Subject: thanks 
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.11
Organization: Ginny Metze, not speaking for anyone but myself
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 03:15:45 GMT


Thanks very much to all of you who took the time to direct me
to the derby racing/handicapping mailing list.  I have already
enjoyed it immensely!

Ginny



===============================================================================
Ginny                                  Impeach Thomas!
metze@uimrl7.mrl.uiuc.edu              Impeach the Rehnquist 5, 6 or 7!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Can any of you seriously say the Bill of Rights could get through Congress
today?  It wouldn't even get out of Committee."  F. Lee Bailey, 1967. 
===============================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger)
Subject: Re: AC Info Wanted
Organization: Summit NJ
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 20:07:51 GMT

>> I'm going to be in New Jersey the weekend of October 16th and was wondering
>> if anyone could tell me at which casinos I'd find the best minimums at this
>> time of year.
>
>I was just in AC on Septermber 26th, a Saturday.  If you want to play
>table games for $5.00 on a weekend, you should arrive *very* early on
>Saturday morning.  The $5 tables begin disappearing around 11 AM.  By
>5 PM, you'll be hard-pressed to find one anywhere in town.  The only
>exception to this seems to be at TropWorld, where they have a specific
>section of the casino running under the "Boardwalk Games" banner.  This
>area had 8-10 $5.00 BJ tables at 9 PM on Saturday night.  I couldn't
>be sure, but it looks like they maintain these tables at $5 at all times.
>Applause for TropWorld for bucking the "screw the customer" trend in AC.
>Quite a few people were hovering over these tables waiting for a spot,
>however.

I wouldn't give any applause ot TropWorld, or any other A/C casino.

If they were really customer oriented, they would-

    1.	Have $2 tables, at least at off-peak times.
    2.	Have at least 10% nickel slot and video poker machines.
    3.  Provide reasonably priced meals or meal specials in their
	delis and coffee shops.

And if I didn't go to Reno a few months ago, I never would've know
what a properly run casino industry could do to be more customer
oriented.
-- 
Stan Krieger                 All opinions, advice, or suggestions, even
UNIX System Laboratories     if related to my employment, are my own.
Summit, NJ
smk@usl.com
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: kolt@quads.uchicago.edu (Matt K/Gonzo)
Subject: How/Where to play DD in LV
Reply-To: kolt@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 11:54:37 GMT

OK. After my last trip in Aug, I decided that I probably ought to play some DD 
games, since the # of Strip games is dwindling. I have some questions.

When playing DD, do you count the # of rounds, or eyeball the discards?
What constitutes acceptable/good rules, and should I be picky?
What kind of spreads do these rules require to grind out much of a profit?
Where do I find good rules? 
  My instincts and experience tell me that I should play Strip rules +DAS as my
minimum favorable rules and play the LV Hilton if they still have their awesome
rules...but do they use their surrender to spot counters? Is it worth playing
DD at all? Is it worth playing tables/casinos w/ nDAS? Who has DAS on DD?

Thanks a bunch.
Matt, who is planning to be in LV 14-22 Dec. (maybe)

-- 
Matt Koltnow   B0 t-- w- c g+ k s+ e r- p   "Truth is not kind; and you
Email: kolt@midway.uchicago.edu              say neither am I." --Toad the    
Ntalk: kolt@ellis.uchicago.edu (or @quads)   Wet Sprocket      
Boycott the IP... R.I.P. MSS...Hugs to all...Standard Disclaimers Apply...
From: cramer@optilink.com (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: AMT Backup .380 problems...
Date: 29 Sep 92 00:03:54 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA


In article <80405@ut-emx.uucp>, ccap001@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Paul Morris) writes:
# 
# I bought an AMT once, and took it home and just looked it over real well. I 
# found the tooling and workmanship on the piece to be poor to very bad. Just   
# working the action by hand was rough and unreliable in feeding rounds. Needless
# to say I never fired it. I traded it it in for a Colt Mustang Plus II which is
# a VERY nice pistol for what it is intended to be. It is a bit larger than the
# AMT and cost about twice the bucks. But for me it makes better sense to have 
# one that is built right and works right. I also like the magazine release and
# the saftey on the Colt better than the AMT. One other thing I like about the 
# Colt is the fact that is designed after the 1911 which makes it very easy to 
# get into if you are familiar with that style of pistol.
# 
# Just my $.02 worth
# 
# P. Morris


I'm afraid I didn't have enough knowledge to recognize how deficient
a design the AMT Backup was.  I bought one in .22.  The first time I
tried to take it apart to clean it, I couldn't get it apart.  I drove
up to the factory, and they took care of the problem, which turned
out to be that they had put the wrong size pin in the gun that held
it together!

It was reasonably accurate, when it worked, but it was such a pain
to disassemble and clean that I couldn't take it seriously as a defensive
weapon (even ignoring the caliber problem).

A Colt Mustang makes much more sense.  So does a Walther PPK/S.
-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
Bush: War on Drugs, tax cut->bigger deficit.  Clinton: War on Drugs, spending
increase->bigger deficit.  What a great choice.
From: rnoguchi@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Ryan Alexander Noguchi)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .40 S&W Help Sought
Date: 3 Oct 92 20:37:51 GMT
Article-I.D.: phoenix.9210031715.AA21567
Organization: Princeton University

In article <1992Oct2.163801.11217@henson.cc.wwu.edu> n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio) writes:
#gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn) writes:

##Glock semiauto pistols already incorporate three safety devices; how
##many does it take to satisfy you?  I suspect what you are asking for
##is simply an external safety lever such as found on a standard M1911A1.
##While it is needed on an M1911A1, it is not needed on a Glock; the two
##operating systems have radically different characteristics.

#What I don't like about the glock is the fact that you don't get a
#second chance on a misfire.

This is true of all DAO's I know.  The same is true with a revolver; you
don't get a second chance on a misfire unless you pull the trigger five
or six more times.  (-:

The proper response to a misfire under combat conditions is the
tap-rack-bang drill, not to just pull the trigger again.  Sometimes this
isn't feasible (if your other arm is badly injured, blown off, pinned
down, etc.), so it's really a judgement call.  In a real combat
situation, either option would probably take the same amount of time,
but with the tap-rack-bang you're assured a fresh try at a new round,
discarding the possibly defective or even nonexistent round in the
chamber.  With a little practice, you can perform the drill in a
fraction of a second.

- Ryan                               rnoguchi@phoenix.Princeton.EDU
===================================================================
"We, too, born to freedom, and believing in freedom, are willing to 
fight to maintain freedom. We, and all others who believe as deeply
as we do, would rather die on our feet than live on our knees."-FDR
===================================================================
From: THOMASR%DUKEMVS.BITNET@ncsuvm.cc.ncsu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Old Astra pistol - info. wanted
Date: 27 Sep 92 21:07:37 GMT

I'd appreciate any info anyone can supply me with regarding
the following pistol.
     It seems to be a 1920's Astra, Ruby-type, .32 ACP,
no external hammer, about 9 round capacity.
     The slid says:

juan esperanza y pedro unceta-guernica (Espana)
cal 7.65 pistola automatica patentada
Atras Mod 1915

    Ther is an "EU" with a circle around it.  There are also
two small stars on the base of the grip near the magazine
release.  |t has "hard rubber" grips.
     The barrel has a crown, the letters "PO" and large,
oddly shaped characters that appear to be "HOPC".

      I would be interested in historical information.  I could
not find a :
"Model 1915" in Handguns of the World.
     It is in good condition and the barrel seems scarcely used.
     I would like an estimate of its value.  Also, I wonder if
it would be safe to fire factory loads through the gun.  Is the
steel in these old Astras of good quality?  Can I be sure
that it is standard .32 ACP?

     As usual, thanks for the help!!!
From: kunz@avalon.physik.unizh.ch (kunz peter)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Murphy's Laws of Combat
Date: 2 Oct 92 16:57:41 GMT
Organization: Informatik Club Uni Zurich

hmm, how bout making an internet limited edition poster of MLC?


cu
-pete


-- 
Peter J. Kunz		Home:		(+41) 061 721 75 56 (Weekends)
P.O. Box 315		Business:	(+41) 01  261 35 74 (Weekdays)
4106 Therwil		Fax:		(+41) 061 324 71 88
Switzerland		E-Mail:		pkunz@amiga.physik.unizh.ch

[MODERATOR: Sounds like a good exercise for some apprentice postscript
hacker....]
From: gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Holsters
Date: 28 Sep 92 21:56:48 GMT
Organization: U.S. Army Ballistic Research Lab, APG MD.


In article <9209221804.AA13491@relay1.UU.NET> bates@bbn.com (Madeleine Bates) writes:
#... and if you forget to take your finger off the trigger, ...

Well, there's the real problem -- a violation of a fundamental firearm
safety rule.

#Most shooters, instructors, and holster makers seem to think that the
#covered trigger guard is safer, ...

For a gun like Glock's with no external safety, a covered trigger is a
must for safety purposes.

#Whichever type of holster you have, practice non-speed drawing and
#holstering with an empty gun hundreds of times until you teach your
#trigger finger to be flat along the frame of the gun, not on the
#trigger, during both operations.

Absolutely one should practice, but keeping the finger away from the
trigger until the target is in the sights and the decision has been
made to fire is a basic principle that needs to be drilled into the
operator before he's ever allowed to touch a loaded gun.
From: gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Concealed Weapons Permit ( again.... )
Date: 1 Oct 92 23:30:39 GMT
Organization: U.S. Army Ballistic Research Lab, APG MD.


In article <199209290353.AA21249@cherokee.advtech.uswest.com> kdlin@advtech.uswest.com (David Lin) writes:
#... However, do I really want to have a CWP?

Only you can answer that question.

#It seems to be very safe around here and people seem to be very friendly
#too. My job is computer related and no chance to deal with violent
#criminals.

I bet the citizenry of Killeen, TX felt exactly that way, before a couple
dozen of them were slaughtered in Luby's Cafeteria by a lunatic last year.

However, you are the proper person to evaluate the probable risk TO YOU.
If you feel safer, or safe enough, unarmed, then one would think you
wouldn't opt to bear arms even if it were not a legal hassle to do so.

#So are there any reasons for me to try to obtain a CWP?

Other than a perceived possible need for a ready defensive weapon,
I'd say the main reason would be to exercise your rights simply to
help stave off their atrophy.

#As a side question, if I do put my loaded pistol ( Beretta -- Hey! Defend your
#life with style!! :) in my car and get stopped by a cop for traffic violations,
#what are the good excuses to tell him/her about why do I have a loaded 
#shinning beautiful pistol in my car? Thanks again.

You do not owe the police any explanation at all; you said it was legal
in your locality to transport loaded weapons.  In a free society, the
police are supposed to be public servants, not the public be slaves of
the police.

Presumably you have a reason for whatever you happen to be doing...
From: rnoguchi@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Ryan Alexander Noguchi)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Glock doesn't *need* a safety  (Re: .40 S&W Help Sought)
Date: 2 Oct 92 11:39:06 GMT
Organization: Princeton University

In article <19242@smoke.brl.mil> gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn) writes:
#In article <9209290112.AA11721@phoenix.Princeton.EDU> rnoguchi@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Ryan Alexander Noguchi) writes:

#Glock semiauto pistols already incorporate three safety devices; how
#many does it take to satisfy you?  I suspect what you are asking for
#is simply an external safety lever such as found on a standard M1911A1.
#While it is needed on an M1911A1, it is not needed on a Glock; the two
#operating systems have radically different characteristics.

Alright, by now I think my concern over AD's in Glocks is unwarranted.
Under stress, when performing a gross motor action like holstering, the
~6 lb trigger of the Glock would not be noticeably different from the 
8-9 lb trigger of normal DAO's, which I had no problem with.  And the
trigger safety should prevent most non-finger AD's which was my primary
concern.  The tactical advantages are probably orders of magnitude more
important than that small extra margin of safety gained in "peacetime."

##... it would make things more difficult for the casual would-be-killer
##who snatches your piece away from you before you can deploy it.
#
#We've previously gone over this territory, with general comments to
#the effect that external safeties should not be relied on for this use.

I remember the discussion of the "Heidi" safety of months past.
An external safety is not a *substitute* for retention of the weapon,
of course; it simply adds a measure of safety, a safety net.  The safety
would not only protect you from the criminal who disarmed you, but would
also protect the EMT who picks your gun up out of the street after
you get hit by a bus, or the curious child who decides to take the gun
from the holster of his soundly sleeping uncle.  Sure, they're unlikely
circumstances, but so is the need for  a gun to defend one's life.  It
certainly doesn't detract from the gun's tactical utility any more than
a safety does on a Colt Gov't Model or a Taurus PT-92. There may be
engineering difficulties with incorporating it in the design, and some
strength may be sacrificed in the process, though.  

The question is *not* "is a safety *needed*," but rather "would a safety
introduce a net benefit to the shooter who wants one."  I would say
"yes," but if that would be used by anti-gunners to justify requiring
safeties on all pistols (even only on all Glocks), then that would  
certainly change my decision to "no."  

- Ryan                               rnoguchi@phoenix.Princeton.EDU
===================================================================
"We, too, born to freedom, and believing in freedom, are willing to 
fight to maintain freedom. We, and all others who believe as deeply
as we do, would rather die on our feet than live on our knees."-FDR
===================================================================
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: HELP: 9mm vs .380. Which to buy?
Date: 1 Oct 92 23:30:50 GMT
Organization: Western Washington University

mcdphx!systemname!gcall@enuucp.eas.asu.edu (Glen Call) writes:


#9mm is considered by many to be an adequate man-stopper.  .380 is marginal,
#especially if shot placement is disturbed by stress.  The Ruger 9mm auto's
#are known for their durability, allowing the choice of very hot loads.
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
	What 9mm isn't?
From: kdw@icd.ab.com (Kenneth D. Whitehead)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Last of the Mohicans Artillery
Date: 1 Oct 92 23:30:47 GMT
Organization: Allen-Bradley Company, Inc.

#Seriously, does anyone here have any comments on the artillery in the siege
#scenes?  It seemed fairly realistic.  Except perhaps for the fact that most
#of the pieces didn't seem to recoil much.  Hmm, perhaps they weren't
#actually shotted?

I read an article on this in "Muzzleloader" magazine;
the arty was molded out of fiberglass, and fired electronically.
From: toby@milton.u.washington.edu (Toby Bradshaw)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .38s lose oomph in a .357?
Date: 28 Sep 92 19:39:05 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <12622@sail.LABS.TEK.COM> tcmaint@sail.labs.tek.com (-Broadband Network Maintenance) writes:
#I have a question on relaoding equipment. I need a tool to
#turn the necks of .308WCF cases as the neck walls are getting thick and 
#causing higher pressure and chambering problems. 
#
#What tools are recommended? 

I use one made by Sinclair.  It works well, but the adjustment for
depth of cut is "cut and try", so a good micrometer is essential.
The mandrel that goes inside the neck is .307 for .30 caliber,
so you can calculate your case wall thickness by miking the
neck diameter as you turn.  If you have a lot of cases to do,
and maximum accuracy is less important than the speed of
operation, try reaming the necks.  Wilson's case trimmer can
be set up with a reamer.  I believe Forster makes a power
attachment for their neck turner; I've always turned necks
by hand, though, for benchrest.  Neck turning is a huge
pain in the butt.  I don't mind too much on my BR rifle,
where the cases go 100 loadings or more and the cases won't
fit without neck turning anyhow, but I stopped turning
necks on my regular varmint and hunting ammunition a long
time ago.

Toby Bradshaw
Department of Biochemistry and College of Forest Resources
University of Washington, Seattle
toby@u.washington.edu

"A well-educated electorate being necessary to the prosperity of
a free state, the right of the people to keep and read books, shall
not be infringed."  Do you believe that all "inflammatory" books
should be stored in libraries, since no honest person needs such a
book at home where a child might read it?
From: sfaber@ihlpb.att.com (Steven R Faber)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Rifling Twist Angles - stability
Date: 28 Sep 92 19:39:06 GMT
Organization: AT&T

Came across the book "Methods of Exterior Ballistics" written 
just after WW1 that is a detailed mathematical treatment of 
the subject, and has the answer we've been looking for.

Instead of using the angular momentum over the transverse moment
as a measure of stability, we should be looking at the rate of 
change of the yaw angle and considering the moment of inertia around
the transverse axis.

rate of change in yaw angle (y) = torque around trasverse axis/ It

where "It" is transverse moment of inertia.

Then the assumption is made that all the force acting on the projectile
is due to the drag on the front cross sectional area and that is
independent of yaw angle assuming small yaw angles.

Then scaling a given projectile by radius "r" including length.

y*It* sin(angle) =
    const (c) * dens of air (p) * area (r^2) * moment arm (r) sin(angle)

(It) is proportional to r^5  (1/2*m*r^2)

so:   y = c*p*v^2/r^2


Then after an involved derivation he finds that a projectile is stable
when 

		y < 1/4*w^2*(Il/It)^2

where Il is the longitudinal moment of inertia and w is the spin rate.

so the stability ratio is:  substituting w=2*pi*v*twist(in^-1)

		(v*tw)^2*(Il/It)^2*r^2/(p*v^2)  =
		

		r^2*(Il/It)^2/p
		
		
Note that velocity drops out!
Of course this assumes all the velocity is obtained from the gun.

now substitute rifling angle (r.a) = 2*pi*r*twist   so the stab ratio =

		(r.a.)^2*(Il/It)^2/p
		---------------------
		
So stability is independent of velocity or the caliber! 
Don't you love it when everything drops out:)
Guess Bart's post really summed things up.

The above ratio implies that for greater stablity you want to
concentrate the mass in the center of the bullet, so a longer projectile
gives poorer stability, and denser air gives poorer stability.
Stability is independent of the density of the projectile since it
has the ratio of moments of inertia along the different axes.

The book mentioned that you can be over stabilized since the bullet
has to follow an arcing trajectory, which could then lead to forces
that could disintegrate the bullet if it is overstable.


If we increase the length of a projectile by factor "L"
and assume a ogival projectile  which has approximately the same
moments of inertia as a cylinder:

the Il will be proportional to L and
the It will be proportional to L^3

so to keep the same stability we must increase the rifling angle
by L^2.


Steve
From: cower@SSD.intel.com (Rich Cower)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Twist on Skao 6mm PPC is 1 -14
Date: 2 Oct 92 21:46:03 GMT
Organization: Supercomputer Systems Division, Intel Corp.


If anyone else needs this, the twist rate on the Sako 6mm PPC is 1 - 14.
Thanks to Dan Lija in Plains, MT. for this info.
From: rnoguchi@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Ryan Alexander Noguchi)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Glock adoption
Date: 3 Oct 92 20:37:48 GMT
Article-I.D.: phoenix.9210031653.AA19895
Organization: Princeton University

In article <1992Oct3.003922.5337@latcs1.lat.oz.au> jd@latcs1.lat.oz.au
(John Dimogotsis) writes:
#	Has the Glock been adopted by any large organization, police-force or
#military?

To name a few:
Austria:  Military and Police
Norway:  Military
UK:  London Police
Hong Kong:  Royal Hong Kong Police
US Government:
	DoDCIS (Criminal Investigative Service)
	NIS (Naval Investigative Service)
	authorized duty weapon for most federal law enforcement
		agencies, including DEA, INS, US Marshalls Service, 
		US Customs Service, IRS, Border Patrol

And probably thousands of Police Departments around the country,
including D.C. Metro PD and Smyrna PD (Georgia, home of Glock's US
office).
 
- Ryan                               rnoguchi@phoenix.Princeton.EDU
===================================================================
"We, too, born to freedom, and believing in freedom, are willing to 
fight to maintain freedom. We, and all others who believe as deeply
as we do, would rather die on our feet than live on our knees."-FDR
===================================================================
From: Thi_Huynh@univel.COM (Thi Huynh)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Silencer questions
Date: 1 Oct 92 23:31:48 GMT

robert@cuba.vlsivie.tuwien.ac.at (Robert Glock) wrote:
#
# - How much of the bang do they _really_ suppress (I don't think movies
#   are good reference 8-) )? Could you compare the resulting noise 
#   to some everyday noise?

Well, this depend mostly on the quality of the silencer.  A friend of mine
has a silenced Ingram MAC-10 full-auto.  All you can hear during full-auto
firing is the slamming of the bolt against the breach face.

# - Do silencers affect the accuracy of the gun?

With the newer "wipeless" silencers, accuracy potential is not affected.
The gun, however, will shoot to a different point of aim since the flexing
of the barrel as the bullet travels through is affected.  All you need to
do is re-zeroing the sights.

# - Do silencers wear out through repeated use? If so, how many shots
#   (approx.) can you shoot before you have to replace the silencer?

Silencers don't wear out.  You need, however, to replace the baffle material.
Aluminum shavings will last for at least 1500 .45 ACP rounds before
replacement is necessary.

-tt