HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: "Colin J. Wynne" <cwynne@liberty.uc.wlu.edu>
Subject: Re: How to remove an orroshian stelae
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 05:09:54 GMT

On Sun, 13 Dec 1992, Michael Gersten wrote:

> The perseverance check? What perseverance check? Remember, the first  
> knight got toasted in another location (his job was to distract Hekton). Out of  
> sight, out of P-check.

THE Perserverance Check.  Simply put, to remove the stela you must see
it.  The stela is an Occult object.  As per the sourcebook, the Occult
*always* requires a Perserverance Check -- and the Pers. DN will be that
of Heketon.  The Knights will be setback with fear, and any gamemaster
worth his salt, upon seeing these carefully hoarded cards, will cause a
major Confusion as the setback while, as I suggested before, Heketon boots
some head with an Occult (or otherwise -- it does have magic skills and
knowledges) spell.

CJW

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
  =====  Colin J. Wynne                     Washington & Lee University  =====
  =====  cwynne@liberty.uc.wlu.edu              Lexington, Virginia      =====
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Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: "Colin J. Wynne" <cwynne@liberty.uc.wlu.edu>
Subject: Re: Superworld...
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 11:07:04 GMT

I know how gross Superman is, but *82* STR on a TORG scale?  What, may I
ask, does that translate into as lifting?  I already know that he could
*kill* any High Lord with one punch.

CJW

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
  =====  Colin J. Wynne                     Washington & Lee University  =====
  =====  cwynne@liberty.uc.wlu.edu              Lexington, Virginia      =====
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Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: gdavis@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Grant R. Davis)
Subject: Re: REVENGE! (spoilage)
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
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Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 17:57:48 GMT

[Rick Jones writes that there are 2 bridges & wimpy SKs can't get them both]

That's right-the adventure is about bringing down both bridges. I see the
Power of Fear is keeping you from going after the one at Illmound ;)


The Grant Man
gdavis@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu

"Gold is most excellent"- Christopher Columbus

Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: jmkaraka@eos.ncsu.edu (JOHN MARTIN KARAKASH)
Subject: Re: GM Cheating
Originator: jmkaraka@c00091-100lez.eos.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: jmkaraka@eos.ncsu.edu (JOHN MARTIN KARAKASH)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 05:13:31 GMT


|>
|>> Every so often this thread comes up - Should GM's cheat?  I say a good GM
|>> is one that see to it that his/her players have a good time.  Sometimes
|>> that means you have to cheat either for or against.  I usually try to avoid
|>> cheating whenever possible, but I also believe firmly in GM fiat.
|>
|>If an encounter is going too easily, then I, as gm, will probably fudge to
|>make it more interesting/challenging -- but, of course, I will then make
|>sure not to really screw over any of the characters since they would have
|>gotten through unscathed if the encounter had been left as-was.
|>
	If done with finesse, 'cheating' is fine.  GM's are not omniscient,
even if they ARE omnipotent.  An example of bad cheating follows...

	I was playing Vampire(tm) (yes, I admit it, *sob!*  Oh, the
humanity of it all!) and we were going up against an elder.  By various
strategems and lots of preparation, we managed to catch him by surprise.
I happened to have a big gun and very good firearms value, so I plugged
him good with my *first* shot.  The GM took one look at this, and said
'well, he is thrown behind the altar from the force of your blow'.
This meant that he took an inertialess 90 degree turn in midair, since he
was standing several feet to one side of the altar at the time.
	This would have been a good place to stop, but the GM also
upped his stats, dropped his generation by one (a mega change for those
who don't play vampire), and let him heal up all the way, while behind
there.  I did not mention the fact, that several other players were
simultaneously shooting and a clever soul had rolled his last grenade
between the elder's feet.
	I probably sound pretty soured by this (your right too!), but
a combat that we had wrapped up due to good playing and were going to
win handily turned into a bloodbath, where only two of the original
six characters survived, and THAT only due to the 'intervention' of
a an NPC who happened to be tagging along (another blatant 'cheat'
fix that didn't fly too well.)
	In summary: I agree with you.  Cheating is a valid GM tactic,
but it's too easy to screw up.

	-john-
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: wolf@cheshire.oxy.edu (Clinton Richard Wolf)
Subject: Re: November Infiniverse
Organization: Occidental College, Los Angeles, CA 90041 USA.
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 01:36:45 GMT

In article <gatemail1.0b35221533126551@morticia> Rick Jones <albert@crick.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu> writes:
>	And just in time for X-mas.
>	Nothing really interesting to report, as the index took
>of Tharkhold contest with his creation "the Liquidator."  (is it me, 
>does that make anyone else think of the villain from Darkwing Duck?)

 Ah, fame... *sniff* ;)

 Are they calling it the Liquidator now? I sent it in as a 'liquefier'... not
that I really care. Most of the critters I came up with had decidedly uncreat-
ive names (tunneler, phaser, etc...), so it's fine if they can come up with 
something better... although Liquidator kinda makes it sound too much like
Terminator or somesuch... ah, well... fokkin' I dunno...


Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: smooge@jupiter.nmt.edu (the Smooge)
Subject: Re: Superworld...
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 22:44:13 GMT

* 
* I know how gross Superman is, but *82* STR on a TORG scale?  What, may I
* ask, does that translate into as lifting?  I already know that he could
* *kill* any High Lord with one punch.
* 
* CJW
* 
Remember that this is first edition superman before Crisis when he could
push around the moon with a little strain. A 82 Str equates to about
3E16 kilograms (30,000,000,000,000 tons). 

Yes this is silly in mixing a superhero cosm with Torg. However as
Kansas Jim pointed out to me last night, the GM is a magical creature
and Superman only has a 12 strength versus magical things :) =).

So instead we take Captain Marvel or some similar DC hero. New Shazam has
a 20 strength in the DC game which probably meant before crisis he had a
40 to 49 strength (DC always made him weaker than Superman...). If we give
CaptMarvel a 40 DC strength it would equate to a 67 Torg Value. He hits
the GM with no bonus. That eqautes to (67-38) result points or 10 wounds
KO 5... The Gaunt Man buys off 9 wounds (with regeneration.) and then eats
Captain Marvel... Of course most any other Highlord would be pudding against
the wall. I would not suggest mixing a superhero cosm with Torg.. I just
like the Torg dynamics and want to see if I can adapt it to a heroes type
game.

Ebenezer Smooge
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: "Colin J. Wynne" <cwynne@liberty.uc.wlu.edu>
Subject: Re: How to remove an orroshian stelae
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 11:01:47 GMT

On Sun, 13 Dec 1992, Michael Gersten wrote:

[the fantasy uprooting deleted]

Five Knights, eh?  With just the right cards, eh?  How many started the
adven and died?  How many cards do they have left after fighting their way
to the stelae?  What about failing the perserverance check against
Heketon, whereupon a setback with fear prevents the Knights from using any
cards?  Of course, Heketon then marks them all for death, and casts a
one-on-many boiling blood (specially altered so as not to require
contagion or hands) and cooks your five Knights.

CJW

p.s.: :P


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
  =====  Colin J. Wynne                     Washington & Lee University  =====
  =====  cwynne@liberty.uc.wlu.edu              Lexington, Virginia      =====
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<


Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: smooge@jupiter.nmt.edu (the Smooge)
Subject: Questions about the GMR.
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 18:06:13 GMT


Spoilers!!!


Ok I have a few questions about actions in the gaunt man returns...

1) It tells GM's during act 1 to take Martyr cards during failed
perserverance checks. I question this because it would seem that
subplots can be pulled by the power of fear. I know cards in the
pool and hand can be taken, but I have always considered a subplot
a card in play (as in being used). The reason of course is that 
since the party are guests of the GM in act two, and they have been
armed with eternity shards to defeat him, a martyr card could be
used to negate his protection (the player catches a glimpse of the
amulet around the GM's neck, reaches over and grabs it while pressing
the eternity shard to the GM. He is of course torn to shreds by
the maelstrom.

2) It would seem that WEG has a different view of talismans and hard
points. I had thought they were quite rare, however every realm base
the party will encounter has a large hardpoint that has been built
there. They all have spirit values of around 6 and large ranges. Also
several minor people running around have talismans. We do get to see
what happens to ords when a hardpoint that they have been working
around is destroyed (poor ords :).

Ok a comment now:

The man who wrote this module was genuinely evil!!! My hat is off to
him! The power of fear is constantly being used, with tons of sounds
for the players to hear in the background, images for them to see,
and other atrocities. He even conveyed the Gaunt Man to the limits
that I am sure are publishable (ie he didnt go soft on him, something
I was worried about)... and made him more than 2 dimensional.

While the amount of possibilities awarded at first had me worried,
after reading the module, I am sure that the party will need every one
of them. Each act could be run as a 1 act adventure, in fact I think
the writer sort of hints at this when he hints that do not run this as
a one night adventure, let the players take their times, to rest and
train in new skills during the module. I personally give a party of
veterans a 40% chance of survival. IE send more storm knights :) :).

ps there are no flying cars or men in armor in this adventure.

Ebenezer Smooge
From: cdr@kpc.com (Carl Rigney)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
Subject: Superheroes and other terrors
Summary: The Captain America Complex
Date: 19 Dec 92 02:46:08 GMT
Organization: Kanawa Pacific Computer Inc, Santa Clara, CA

"There is an island in the bay where the Overwatch sleeps.

Once upon a time there were mighty Heroes, and terrible Villains, who
struggled against one another to protect society or to change it in
their own image and we the people cheered or feared the shadow of their
struggle.

And then came The Darkness that gave one group of Heroes the power to
overthrow all others, creating a perfect world without Heroes, without
Villains, without the shadow of their struggle.  And those last and
best heroes settled in the island in the bay to watch over the world,
their perfect world, and keep it safe forever.  They are the most powerful
beings in creation: The Overwatch.

We can't shatter mountains with our fists or out-run light or kill with
a glance, but We will cloak ourselves in Myth and take up the fallen
banners and go forth to shatter the perfect world in the name of
freedom, or die in the attempt and so strengthen our legend for those
who come after us, to cloak themselves in Myth and take up the fallen
banners.

This is our story."


I think you *can* do a Torg cosm with superpowers, but if you mix it with
genres whose myths are less pure and strong you'll dilute the effect terribly.

--
Carl Rigney
cdr@kpc.com

AEGIS' view on paranormals: Someone in one of the final rounds of "The
Last Hero" asked Shana Grey for her opinion.  Her reply:  "Does it
matter?  I'm just a mortal, caught in the clash of gods - my opinion
makes no difference.  "Sure, I think you've been given a raw deal;
there's no justice in what AEGIS has done to you.  But AEGIS, and
through it the government, doesn't see you as a question of justice.
In their eyes, you're not people, you don't have rights - you're
elemental forces, with abilities and motives beyond our comprehension.
Does the Civil Engineer lose sleep at night because the dam he built
imprisons the river?  Of course not.  The holding facility is no
different than a flood levee, both are just Man trying to reduce the
destructiveness of forces he can't control."
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: Jim Ogle (Ks. Jim) <jogle@aoc.nrao.edu>
Subject: Re:  How to remove an orroshian stelae
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 19:08:10 GMT

Michael writes:

> Trivial.  No shards needed.

Assuming of course you managed to save all those cards through the
course of the adventure AND that the Seize Initiative actually gives
the party initiative (odds are against it in a Dramatic Scene.)


Kansas Jim (jogle@aoc.nrao.edu)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: smooge@jupiter.nmt.edu (the Smooge)
Subject: Re: Superworld...
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 22:14:31 GMT

* the Smooge writes:
* 
* >Here is NightMouse a very sad Batman Clone.
[comments deleted about Batman by my editor sorry]

Hey I know what Batman is about. I said that this was a sad Batman clone
because it was a one-one conversion of Batmans statistics to torg. Geez,
I had this argument a long time ago with Dave and Kansas Jim.... If I were
to implement a Batman he would be a 13 in all stats with maybe a 14 in
Perception (he is the Dark Detective..) Ow and on the lifting, there
have been too many times Batman has had a car dropped on him in a junkyard
and then with strain lifted it off of him. Remember the Lifting skill
only allows him to be better at the PowerPush table (max +2).
* 
* 	I'm very scared WEG will get the idea to implement this munchkin cosm.
*

My major comment on this cosm was that I do not think at the present
it is workable into Torg Mainstream. Please note that I wanted some
criticism on how to work stuff in. A regular storm knight would be
practically worthless in a party of superheroes... However I would
like to be able to create a superhero game using the rules of Torg. I
like one dice, I like possibilities, I love the drama deck. I have
found Torg to be the easiest game to implement in a short time. And I
am sick of the other `superhero' games for either having to spend 6
weeks to get your character built (Champions, Hero, and TMNT (and the
other offshoots)) or being too simplistic in how things are done
(Marvel). (slobber-rant-rave deleted) Sorry I have gone cold turkey off
of caffeine for 5 days.... 

* 
* Jason N. Greene
* 	"Leave the tights at the cleaners and get some cyberware."

Ebenezer Smooge
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: Jim Ogle (Ks. Jim) <jogle@aoc.nrao.edu>
Subject: Funerals?
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 07:05:34 GMT

Just a quick question out of the blue (and from the depths of
boredom); how many funerals have been in people's games?

I don't mean deaths, I mean actual burial ceremony kinds of things.
We had a PC death recently in my game and the players announced that
they would accompany the body back to its hometown for the funeral,
something that they've never done before.  (Granted, most of the
previous deaths it would have been impossible to do such a thing, as
there was either no body to bury or no one around to recover the
body.)  

Its even more of a surprise that the players decided to accompany the
body home, since the deceased character is from Los Angeles....  








Kansas Jim (jogle@aoc.nrao.edu)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: "Colin J. Wynne" <cwynne@liberty.uc.wlu.edu>
Subject: Re: Removing a Stelae in Orrorsh
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 10:58:03 GMT

On Mon, 14 Dec 1992, Kevin Maurice Hudson wrote:

> Yes, but they can do it without interference fom Heketon.  Except in
> their quest for the information and any materials that they will need.

Errr...  When they generate the final Occult total, it will be for an
event that directly affects Heketon.  Therefore Heketon can couter
possibilities until the cows come home at that step.

Besides, all this talk is about 'separating' Heketon from its stela.  The
stelae *are part of Heketon*.  That's like saying, "I want to separate the
Gaunt Man from his left hand."

CJW

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
  =====  Colin J. Wynne                     Washington & Lee University  =====
  =====  cwynne@liberty.uc.wlu.edu              Lexington, Virginia      =====
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<


Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: smooge@jupiter.nmt.edu (the Smooge)
Subject: More hints from TGR
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
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Organization: University of North Texas
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Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 02:27:55 GMT


Just finished the intro... These could be spoilers to players so I will try
to 

Ok hope that worked.

The Gaunt Man sucks the Heart of Coyote dry... he gets out and views what has
happened over the 2 years he has been gone. Mostly he finds all the highlords
except Mobius and 3327 to be complete idiots. He finds 3327 to be a intelligent
but decides that he must pay for his crimes against the TORG (ie invading
territory meant for the GM.) The only highlord he has any respect for
is Mobius. Then he wishes to find Thratchen and sees him with a lot more
of his kind... It would seem that even the Gaunt Man thought Tharkhold
had been destroyed. He tries to find Kranod but only finds a rotting corpse.
Then he sees Jezrael, and what is this cupid shoots the GM? Yep. He
has decided to take a mate (whether or not Jez wishes it is not up to her).
We also find that the GM was married long ago, but the only woman he has 
ever touched was his wife when he killed her. (Leads to wondering what
he plans to do with Jez.)

We also see some powers of a powerful Darkness Device like Heketon. Heketon
could of helped the GM anytime it wanted to, but for the 2 years decided
not. It can also mold reality to its whim (the GM gets it to `redecorate'
Illmound Keep.) I think the bs reason that Heketon could of helped
its highlord even though he was in maelstrom is that he is so close to being
Torg (and thus one with the DD).

The adventure seems to be a plot of the GM to recruit a party of storm knights
to get his revenge on several of his court that betrayed him. He wishes to
test how powerful Earth Stormers are to see how much of a threat they will
be in the future...

Oh about Space Gods: He knew they had been on Earth, and our favorite vampire
had been really working for the GM when he attacks the party at the end
of the module. Manwaring's mission was to destroy the signal fire so that
Earth could not summon help (makes that scene in the adventure plausible now
instead of big firefight...)

Finally, remember the problem with Eternity Shards, our old buddy the GM
had... Well due to an occult ritual (that took him over a month to cast
and a lot of bodies... However there is a great example of the initial
things needed to do for an occult ritual) he is protected while he
wheres an amulet made from stormers and a piece of the HofCoyote and 
he remains inside of Illmound Keep. (so all you have to do now is lure him
out :))

Well enough rambling I have to go eat.

Ebenezer Smooge
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: Rick Jones <albert@crick.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu>
Subject: November Infiniverse
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 03:53:36 GMT

	And just in time for X-mas.

	Nothing really interesting to report, as the index took
center stage.  
	In case ya'll didn't know, our own Clinton Wolf won the Creatures
of Tharkhold contest with his creation "the Liquidator."  (is it me, 
does that make anyone else think of the villain from Darkwing Duck?)
	Also, in forthcoming I-verses, thanks to pressure from the GEnie 
crowd, we will get player handouts on the realms, to give the character's
POV on his or her (or it's ;-) home cosm.
-- 
Rick Jones				Systems Support Center
albert@bcm.tmc.edu			Baylor College of Medicine
Voice: 713-798-7352			standard disclaimers apply
One jump ahead of the slowpokes, One skip ahead of my doom. - Aladdin
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: "James H. Kiley" <jkiley@andy.bgsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Superworld...
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 03:31:10 GMT



On Tue, 15 Dec 1992, Grant R. Davis wrote:

> The Grant Man
> 
> Excited about the Gaunt Man's return...
> and worried that he'll come after me for back royalties!

	You think *you're* worried?

Jim/The.Gaunt.Man@TorgMUSH



Newsgroups: alt.games.torg