From: altheimm@nextnet.csus.edu (Murray Altheim)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Amazon warriors
Date: 16 Oct 92 17:41:51 GMT
Organization: California State University Sacramento

In article <2ADE2954.6398@news.service.uci.edu>
    cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
>In article <1992Oct15.193314.27787@csus.edu>
      altheimm@nextnet.csus.edu (Murray Altheim) writes:
>
>>A more reasonable conclusion is that men have generally been
>>raised to not only hold open doors for women, but PROTECT them as well.
>
>Protect us from what?  Think about it.
>
>Blessings,
>Janis 

At first I wanted to reply that this protection thingie goes back to the
days of hunter-gatherers, or medieval times, or...

It then occurred to me that protecting women wasn't really a necessary 
agenda for men in a "civilized" society, or at least shouldn't be...

And then I thought about personal experience and the stories I've been told
by friends about their experiences in the Real World. For those of us 
(ie., nonviolent men) who seldom if ever have to deal with a violent 
situation, it's hard to imagine NEEDING to protect a woman from another man,
and yet even I (a pretty nonviolent person) have had occasion to deal with
this. 

In one instance the other man was a PhD student, well respected as a writer
and poet at a nearby university, who had a string of violent relationships
that had gone on for years. He was particularly adept at finding victims
who were strong women who had some weakness he was able to exploit. He was
never violent with them when in the presence of anyone else, but was a very
effective physical and emotional controller. I got involved with one of his
"ex-girlfriends" who he still demanded control of, and to make a very long
story short, it involved a lot of support, friendship, and someone making
a firm stand (the invisible unknown) in support of her. It also involved a
restraining order, a violation of that restraining order, and the eventual
disbarring of him from the PhD program to get him to stop.

My current SO's last relationship ended about three years ago, but she still
fears for her life, and no joke, this guy is quite willing and able to kill
her should he find her. I'm not very physically threatening, and he's over
six feet and has been known to own not only handguns but automatic weapons.
He also uses his fists, as evidenced by nose-to-ear bruises in her past.

And this doesn't even bring up the possibility of an unknown assailant in a
parking lot at night. Sure, if someone was nearby, I would hope that they
would assist regardless of being man or woman, but ignoring the use of 
weapons, how many women would be willing to take on a large male attacker?
I don't know that I'd be able to, but I sure as hell would try.

Women Take Back the Night is a great idea, self defense training and mace
and stun-guns and effective use of a weapon are all great ideas, but the
essential issue here is that in general men are physically larger than 
women and in general have some experience fighting.

When I walk up to a man on the street, if there is an argument I can almost
assume that it could or would resort to blows. I find it incredible, yes,
that we are no longer trained to deal with confrontation without violence,
and, no, I've never had to resort to it myself. I've been able to talk my
way out of a number of confrontations. But I'm not generally in a position
where I have to deal with these things. 

But as some have possibly read, my SO and I are planning to get hitched,
and the idea of some nut out there either from her past or a parking lot
makes me pretty uneasy. The latter I have no control over, other than if
it happened to her (or anyone else) when I was around, I'd try to help.
The former possibility I've already had to deal with, and I've even
considered buying and learning how to use a handgun. You might guess from
the length of this message that it is an issue for me and it has to do
with fear. The idea of some guy beating up, kidnapping or killing the
person I love (should he find her) is a real possibility, and it's hard
for me to ignore or not think about methods of protecting her.  

Blessings,

Murray the Protector
Murray the Destroyer
Murray the Barbarian
Murray the Investment Banker
Murray the Used Car Salesman
Murray the Lion Tamer
Murray the Advanced Weapons Specialist
Murray the Long-Winded

I dunno.

Murray the Man 

Why does that sound strange?

Blessings,

Murray

-- 
Murray M. Altheim      "Ils ont l'orteil de Bouc, & d'un Chevreil l'oreille,
Instructional Consultant    La corne d'un Chamois, & la face vermeille
CSU, Sacramento          Comme un rouge Croissant: & dancent toute nuict
altheimm@csus.edu       Dedans un carrefour, ou pres d'une eau qui bruict."
Newsgroups: alt.pagan