HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: elie@hdtv.njit.edu (Elie I. Mourad)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: Bill Clinton's message to CLAO and Lebanese Americans
Date: 30 Sep 92 17:14:16 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <1992Sep30.155614.11612@ulrik.uio.no>, e.d.wardini@easteur-orient.uio.no (Elie Dib Wardini) writes:
|> In article <1992Sep29.164233.1356@ee.eng.ohio-state.edu>
|> rached@sample.eng.ohio-state.edu (Rached Zantout) writes:
|> >Hi Fellow Netters
|> 
|> >
|> >CLAO, has the duty to inform Mr. Clinton about the Israeli role in Lebanon and
|> >their massacres inthe human and economic sectors, otherwise they will be
|> giving
|> >him a distorted picture of Lebanon which will only contribute to chaos in the
|> US
|> >policy in Lebanon "if Mr. Clinton becomes a president".
|> 
|> I agree with Rached on this one. We should never compromise one occupation to
|> get rid of the other.
|> 
|> Which by the way is the policy of Mr. Bush, who feels that he occupation of
|> Lebanon is a good price (among other prices) to pay to rid Kuwait.
|> 
|> >
|> >rached
|> >
|> 
|> 
|> elie wardini

CLAO's position has never changed. Syrians and Israelis have to leave 
Lebanon. This message was/is very clear during all CLAO sponsored picketing,
letters to newspapers, congressmen, senators, etc...
As a matter of fact, I believe CLAO is one of the few organizations that
I know of (in the US) that have adopted an unambiguous approach to the 
Lebanese problem. 
They are nevertheless biased in their support of Gen. Aoun :-).

Regards, Elie.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.lebanon:4222 soc.culture.iranian:8572
From: e.d.wardini@easteur-orient.uio.no (Elie Dib Wardini) (Elie Dib Wardini)
Subject: Re: Democracy not a majority dictatorship
Organization: UiO
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 11:48:55 GMT

In article <1992Sep25.153830.3883@prism.poly.edu> medawar@prism.poly.edu
(Bassem Medawar) writes:
>
>
>
>Elie.. if say 80% of the country wants some language, say X, to be the only 
>official language of the country, should their wish of the majority be
honored?
>How about 75%, 70%, etc.. ?
>
>The answer is whatever vote procedure (or percentage vote) it takes to change 
>the constitution since Arabic is defined as the official language in the 
>consitution.

The question is one of princilple. THe constitution and following the
constitution we should educate our children that it is allowed to be different
and that it is a fact of lifa that people are different.

Therefore, I would say that Lebanon should have (classical)Arabic as an
official language. I have no problem with this. Yet is shoudl be possible for
me, or my children to choose which langauge they wish to use in their dealings
with the government. THe actual languages are (calssical)Arabic, French,
English, Armenian, possibly Kurdish(?).

About the Governmental BACC, again I am not gainst having (Calssical)Arabic as
part ofthe exam. Just as FRench and English. Again it is the principle, that
ARabic should not be our sole language of education. THus I shoudl be able to
choose which languages (by school) I want to study my different subjects in.

Contary to the lastest decision of government, which included LEbanon in the
ARab League system of education.

As far as dialectal Lebanese is concerned, again it is a matter of principle.
If someday someone decides that we want to write LEbanese, and prepares a
system by which we are able to write it. It should be an open option like any
other language (to say the least, when in fact it is LEBANESE that is the
mother tongue of all Lebanese.) THus I am raising issues to make a point of
principle.

>bassem
>


elie wardini
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: e.d.wardini@easteur-orient.uio.no (Elie Dib Wardini) (Elie Dib Wardini)
Subject: Re: The "ploy" w-shu kamen ?
Organization: UiO
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 08:41:29 GMT

In article <NMOUAWAD.92Oct4154749@neumann.waterloo.edu> nmouawad@waterloo.edu
(Naji Mouawad) writes:
>
>
>To those of you accusing us of a "ploy" of "isolasionim" and of
>"destroying the richness of our culture":
>
> there is no "ploy", that is none that I know of here in Waterloo
>Ontario :).
>
> As it stands Alphaleb is a tool of communcation. You are welcome to
>use it make comments on its constitution and suggest modifications.
>You can ignore it and since you are the majority you have not to
>worry: the small minority we form (isn't Lebanon a country of
>minorities ?) we will use it happily and be contend in our little
>corner.
>
> You do not need to worry, we will soon disapear and leave you alone.

Naji I share your feelings. Maybe it is best that we in fact isolate ourselves?
Maybe then they will be happy! they will have proved their self-fulfilling
prophecy i.e. isolate anyone who does not agree with your, then accuse them of
isolationanism!

I hope that the Middle East will get out of this vicious circle! but, is not
pluralism the same as chaos?  :(

I get more and more pessimistic every day!

NB: you know I bet that instead of understanding our feelings, many are going
to become sarcastic and start calling us paranoid, or the lost archeologists,
or schitzophrenics etc.

may God bless them!

>
>naji.


elie wardini
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: hani@tarragon.engin.umich.edu (Hani Abinassif)
Subject: Re: English ? (Was Re: soc.culture.lebanon.dialect?)
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 92 16:34:55 EDT
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor
Originator: hani@tarragon.engin.umich.edu


In article <1992Oct6.135217.4128@PA.dec.com>, krt@ddxrsg.mlo.dec.com (Khaled Tabbara) writes:
> 
> 
> 
> I found AlphaLeb a little hard to understand sometimes. At other times
> it is fun to read and sounds a lot like the Lebanese dialect !
> 
> I don't really care what language you use as long as we understand each
> other. And since English seems to be the most commonly known language
> how about we use that ? (you are using English to debate AlphaLeb after all!)


	This so called Lebanese dialect is another attempt to distant
Lebanon from its Arab roots.  It has been displayed previuosly here on this
group, by insisting on using French in responding to ongoing discussions.
I personally have no problem with that (or what Bassem, innocently or not,
have been proposing), however, it has been displayed through history, that
ARABIC is rich enough to suit all purposes.  Keeping this in mind, I wonder
why THEY insist on using a Lebanese Dialect, a Franco-Phone alias, or even
a Phonician extinct language (as someone suggested)?

	Let it be known, I am a Lebanese, and I speak the Lebanese Dialect
(which is a handicap sometime), but I insist on using ARABIC as a written
Language.  If some day, someone wants to revive Akl's failures, then by
all means, be our guest. However, I plea with those, not to predict what
will be the modus oprandi as far as languages is concerned.  It is too
naive to extrapolate from personal preferences....and that is what it is:
Personal Preferences.
 
	
> 
> Is there anything that you can express in AlphaLeb that you can't express
> in the English alphabet ?

Good point.  Out of technical or other needs, English has been THE language
to use even in scientific Confrences. 

> 
> Regards,
> 
> -------------------------------
> Khaled Tabbara

-Hani
-- 
 ----------------------------         --------------------------
| Hani_Nassif@um.cc.umich.edu| _____ | 1354 G.G.Brown           |
| hani@engin.umich.edu       |       | Ann Arbor, MI 48109      |
 ----------------------------         --------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: nmouawad@waterloo.edu (Naji Mouawad)
Subject: Re: English ? (Was Re: soc.culture.lebanon.dialect?)
Organization: University of Waterloo
	<1992Oct6.094518.16306@ulrik.uio.no> <1992Oct6.135217.4128@PA.dec.com>
	<1992Oct6.160039.22495@prism.poly.edu>
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 20:21:16 GMT



"-khalil ? kifak ya khalil ?"

ma-twekhezneh be hal-sou'al. ba@rif enno ma esmak khalil lekin Habet
ezkour el-massraHieh la-eno hi @ibara @an yalle ma-bynkatab be ayya
legha tenieh.

iza betlaHiz enno "flames" bel-englizeh ma-henne ella "fashit-khele'"
bel-lebnene. bass fashit-el-khele' aHla !

w-ba@dein @adad kbir men-el-Tolab yalle @ayshin be manTa'a ma'tou@a
@an el-lebnenyyeh, azoneh be-laoua mahdoume el-kelme el-lebnenyyeh
be-hal baHr el-englizeh.

"miss lola what time is with you because my stop watch"...

naji.

--
     -------------------------------------------------------------------
    | Naji Mouawad  |          nmouawad@watmath.waterloo.edu            |
    |  University   |---------------------------------------------------|
    | Of Waterloo   |   "The Stranger in us is our most familiar Self"  |
     -------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: e.d.wardini@easteur-orient.uio.no (Elie Dib Wardini) (Elie Dib Wardini)
Subject: Re: Bill Clinton's message to CLAO and Lebanese Americans
Organization: UiO
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 15:56:14 GMT

In article <1992Sep29.164233.1356@ee.eng.ohio-state.edu>
rached@sample.eng.ohio-state.edu (Rached Zantout) writes:
>Hi Fellow Netters

>
>CLAO, has the duty to inform Mr. Clinton about the Israeli role in Lebanon and
>their massacres inthe human and economic sectors, otherwise they will be
giving
>him a distorted picture of Lebanon which will only contribute to chaos in the
US
>policy in Lebanon "if Mr. Clinton becomes a president".

I agree with Rached on this one. We should never compromise one occupation to
get rid of the other.

Which by the way is the policy of Mr. Bush, who feels that he occupation of
Lebanon is a good price (among other prices) to pay to rid Kuwait.

>
>rached
>


elie wardini
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: 9999sc01@uhdvx3.dt.uh.edu (Alexandre Khalil)
Subject: Re: Some thoughts on Arabic aphabet news reader
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41A   
Organization: University of Houston-Downtown
X-Lunar-Date: 0 days, 4 hours, 15 minutes since the first quarter of the moon
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 02:18:00 GMT

In article <1992Oct5.230250.4196@prism.poly.edu>, medawar@prism.poly.edu (Bassem Medawar) writes...
>In article <5OCT199210380471@uhdvx3.dt.uh.edu> 9999sc01@uhdvx3.dt.uh.edu (Alexandre Khalil) writes:
> 
>>>>Caveat: This discussion is getting technical: some of us might not be interested
> 
>First an update, people who are involved in the first effort to write an Arabic/
>Farsi reader have contacted me by email.  The person who sent the mail indicated
>that they will be making a public post about this soon.  Until then, I will
>not comment any further the subject (after this message).

Ok.

>>It is my understanding that the Mac/PCs are not directly connected to the Net
>>for the quasi-totality of them.
> 
>Wrong.. I have PC's here in our labs that *are* directly connected to Internet
>using the public domain NCSA software.  This software allows telnet, ftp, lpr,
>etc.. and can even use name servers within and outside your domain.  You can 
>ftp from anywhere in the world into such a software equipped PC.  I have even 
>myself installed quite a few of them.  I am sure the same applies for the Mac 
>(Elie?)

You are certainly right here: I will still venture that not too many PC/Mac
are connected that way, 1% 0.1%....
My PC at home is not. I suspect that Elie's and Khaled's personal Macs
are not either.

>>Rather, they are just used as terminals after having been provided with the 
> 
>>right terminal emulator. Some of them might have IP -Interner Protocol- numbers 
>>but those would only be recognizable in their local network unlike e.g.:
>>prism.poly.edu which will have wider acceptance.
> 
>No, see above.  Of course you have to have a network interface card in your PC
>to be able to connect to the net.

You are right.

>>In a *lowly* PC, this is certainly true. But if this PC is equipped with 
>>EGA/VGA, you can reprogram the character set. One easy solution is to arrange
>>the terminal emulator to place the soft font you wish to use -namely Arabic-in 
>>the upper ASCII 128 to 255, as in ISO 8859-6 or some other convention like 
>>IBM's code page for Arabic. This way, the two alphabets are available
>>simultaneously: Latin in the lower table and Arabic in the upper one. Of 
>>course, adding a third font will need more work, but we are not there yet.
> 
>Yeah.. that WOULD work, I now agree.  It means though that you stick with the
>same font throughout the program, which is ok.

You are right.

One last thing, you have an immediate solution if you load the IBM Arabic code 
page using some DOS command and use MS-Kermit setting the orientation to right 
to left. This supposes that the transmission will let the 8 bit characters go 
through. Mmm... You still need a keyboard driver to access the upper table and 
place the right character form.

See you soon.

>>alex
> 
>bassem

alex
From: medawar@prism.poly.edu (Bassem Medawar)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: The psycholgy of reading latinized arabic and it dialects
Date: 3 Oct 92 21:17:29 GMT
Organization: Polytechnic University, New York

If you find it difficult as I do to read Latinized Arabic and its dialects
(namely Lebanese dialects) that is being and will posted on the net, here is
a little advice:  read it aloud.

By reading it aloud, your audible memory will help your iconic memory read
the words.  I've had this problem in reverse with English.  When someone asks
me to spell an English word, I have to write it (or type it) to help me spell
it.  I've learned written English long before I started to practice it.
Another similar point, when someone reads a sentence for me and asks me to
explain it, I ask if I can read the sentence myself.  While this can be
explained in terms of the ability to visually go back over parts or all of
a sentence, it can also be explained in the terms I stated above.  I am
better at comprehending English text I read than English words I hear.
Perhaps I have an impairment of some sort but it is more likely attributed
to the fact that I learned written English before spoken English.  I don't
have any such problem with Arabic.

So, read the Latinized Arabic or Lebanese aloud, or if you are in a crowded
room, mumble it to yourself, lest they think you're becoming schizo :)

After a while of reading Latinized Arabic and Lebanese your iconic memory
will start to participate in the recognition process.  By then, I hope, it
would've become common place to display Arabic alphabet characters on 
terminals and we wouldn't need such transliteration schemes anymore.

bassem
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: e.d.wardini@easteur-orient.uio.no (Elie Dib Wardini) (Elie Dib Wardini)
Subject: Re: al-lugha al-@arabiyya, wa-qiimatuha
Organization: UiO
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 14:13:28 GMT

In article <1992Oct3.212334.17382@prism.poly.edu> medawar@prism.poly.edu
(Bassem Medawar) writes:
>In article <1992Oct3.130415.25233@ulrik.uio.no>
e.d.wardini@easteur-orient.uio.no (Elie Dib Wardini) (Elie Dib Wardini) writes:
>>ara anna al-kathiira min ukhwaanina al-@arabi, al-lubnaaniyyuna minhum
>>khaSattan @ala haadhihi al-shabakati, yakhaafuuna ana ba@Da al-aHruf
>>al-Laatiniyya sa-tudhiilu majdahum aw karaamatahum.
>>
>>limaadha?
>[..]
>>elie wardini
>
>You mean "limaaz^a" or limaazha", no?
>
>There is no "dh" in the AlephLeb v.1 proposal :)

ma@ak ha''. limaazha? limaazha yaKaafuuna? wa-mimman?

>bassem
>

elie wardini
Organization: Middle East Technical University - Computer Center
Date: Wednesday, 30 Sep 1992 12:45:40 TUR
From: <C70861@TRMETU.BITNET>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Amer`can un`vers`ty of be`rut

     The Amer`can un`vers`ty of Be`rut has been,for a long t`me,one of

the most em`nent features of sc`ence and technology,not only `n the m`ddle

east,but `n the whole world as well...

 In sp`te of the var`ous problems that block `ts development dur`ng the

war years,A.U.B. `s st`ll conserv`ng `ts po`nts of strength as a lead`ng

edge `n the world of knowledge...

   For more `nformat`on,post your quest`ons e`ther to th`s newsgroup,or

by d`rect e-ma`l to :

                                 c70861TRMETU.BITNET
                                 Abdul-Ham`d Sadka
From: medawar@prism.poly.edu (Bassem Medawar)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: English ? (Was Re: soc.culture.lebanon.dialect?)
Date: 6 Oct 92 16:00:39 GMT
Organization: Polytechnic University, New York

I reply to you Khaled T. because you make an important point that have not
been made before.  Otherwise, I don't intend to get back into the AlephLeb 
business debate.

In article <1992Oct6.135217.4128@PA.dec.com> tabbara@3d.enet.dec.com writes:

>I don't really care what language you use as long as we understand each
>other. And since English seems to be the most commonly known language
>how about we use that ? (you are using English to debate AlphaLeb after all!) 

Recall the debate about the dabate between the Clinton and Bush camps, between
the Arabs and the Israelis in the peace talks.  If you are already having
a debate about the debate then you didn't need the debate because you're
already talking.  No.  The debate is a different ball game than the debate about
the debate.

>
>Is there anything that you can express in AlphaLeb that you can't express
>in the English alphabet ?  

I receive many letters, written in English, classical Arabic and Lebanese
(darij, with the Arabic alphabet).  Of all those letters the ones I enjoy most 
re the ones written in darij.

>Khaled Tabbara

bassem
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: 9999sc01@uhdvx3.dt.uh.edu (Alexandre Khalil)
Subject: Re: English ? (Was Re: soc.culture.lebanon.dialect?)
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41A   
Organization: University of Houston-Downtown
X-Lunar-Date: 1 day, 5 hours, 14 minutes since the first quarter of the moon
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 02:56:00 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.135217.4128@PA.dec.com>, tabbara@3d.enet.dec.com writes...
> 
[...]
>Is there anything that you can express in AlphaLeb that you can't express
>in the English alphabet ?  

Yes, the jokes whether it be on the HamaSne, geHHa, Trablus or keserwaan

>Khaled Tabbara

alex
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: ayman@eecs.umich.edu (Ayman I. Kayssi)
Subject: Re: AlpaLeb V 1.0
Organization: ACAL, EECS, University of Michigan, Ann Arbor
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 03:08:37 GMT

Samir (hyper@ecf.toronto.edu) wrote:
: 
: Wow, Ayman....I thought two days ago you said that it was purely scientific
: and you saw no political maneuvers in it!!!! :)))))
: 
: It was certain that you would come around!!! :))))

Yes Samir,
while I viewed AlphaLeb as a purely transitional tool to standardize the
way we write Lebanese Arabic on the Net, until a better solution (read:
writing Lebanese Arabic using ARABIC letters) is available, others have
added a political dimension to it, and are making bogus claims about its
suitability as an alphabet for the so-called Lebanese language. I do not
believe in writing Arabic using Latin letters, but I do think that AlphaLeb
could presently serve the first purpose, that of communicating Arabic text
over the Net.
--
Ayman I. Kayssi                               |    ayman@eecs.umich.edu
EECS Department                               +------------------------
University of Michigan                        |          (313) 764-8033
From: jcc@waikato.ac.nz
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: Amer`can un`vers`ty of be`rut
Date: 1 Oct 92 12:29:01 +1200
Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand

In article <92274.124540C70861@TRMETU.BITNET>, <C70861@TRMETU.BITNET> writes:
stuff deleted ...
>  In sp`te of the var`ous problems that block `ts development dur`ng the
> war years,A.U.B. `s st`ll conserv`ng `ts po`nts of strength as a lead`ng
> edge `n the world of knowledge...
>    For more `nformat`on,post your quest`ons e`ther to th`s newsgroup

I'd really appreciate it if you or anyone else knowledgeable about culture of
the Middle East (especially Lebanese culture) could mail or post anything to
me. I am a graduate student in New Zealand, and I am writing a paper on the
culture of the Middle East. If you (or anyone from the AUB) have any
information about the culture, values, verbal and non-verbal communication
habits etc. for Lebanese or Middle Eastern culture I would very much appreciate
any information you could possibly give me.

>                                  Abdul-Ham`d Sadka

Peace, 
John Corban
jcc@waikato.ac.nz
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Sunday, 27 Sep 1992 22:04:33 CDT
From: Nasri <U38065@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: Ambassadors' names

Russian :    Niko Balkhoff
German  :    Shlakhto Btakhto
Chinese :    Shim Tizi Shim
French  :    Jean Masekliye
Spanish :    Dandalero Sandofik
Japanese:    Yama Neyek Emmo Yama

          Am I forgetting anything else ?


Nasri


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+        Je suis jeune, il est vrai; mais aux ames bien nees            +
+        La valeur n'attend point le nombre des annees.                 +
+                                              LE CID (DON RODRIGUE)    +
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: hani@pepper.engin.umich.edu (Hani Abinassif)
Subject: Re: Ambassadors' names
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 15:30:44 EDT
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor
Originator: hani@pepper.engin.umich.edu


In article <1992Sep28.050433.2459669@locus.com>, jle@locus.com (John Elghani/10000000) writes:
> In article <92270.164616U38065@uicvm.uic.edu> Nasri <U38065@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:
> >Here's an example:  The Russian ambassador is: Niko Balakhoff
> >                    The German ambassador is : Shlakhto Btakhto
> >                    The Chinese ambassador is: Shim Tizi Shim
> 
> 		     The Soviet Gorby:  Gerrbo w shoof
> 		     The Qatari :  Kilmabisto Al Tany
> 		     Naif Hawatmi (PFLP D) : Hatif Hawajbo.
> 		     Saddam : Bumper
> 
> jle

This humor (if it is!) is not only distastefull, redundant and
boring, but also out of context.  
If bored try This STANDUP rehersal infront of a mirror for our
sake:-)
-Hani
-- 
 ____    ____ "These views are explicitly/implicitly
|    \  /    | mine...and not that of U-M or CAEN",   
 | |\ \/ /| |  University of Michigan            | Hani_Nassif@um.cc.umich.edu
|__ | \/ |___| Computer Aided Engineering Network| hani@engin.umich.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: nkjle@locus.com (John Elghani/10000000)
Subject: Re: al-lugha al-@arabiyya is pissed off
Organization: LC
Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1992 05:57:02 GMT

Arabic Language speaking in peotry:

Ana albahro fe ahsha`hi addurro
			Fahal sa`alo al ghawwasati an sadafati

Ataw ahlahom bil mojizati
			Faya laytakom ta`toona bil kalimati

jle


Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon