From: echeng@phys.psu.edu (Eddie Cheng)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.hongkong,soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Political Prostitutes or Democractic Activitists ?
Date: 23 Nov 92 18:30:25 GMT
Organization: Penn State, Department of Physics

In article <1992Nov23.023056.2465@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> mlibucha@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Mark A Libucha) writes:
>
>No, because I don't think that the average person in China is suffering,
>except in terms of repression by the government. They may desperately want
>the material life that much of the West enjoys, but I don't call that
>suffering. I call living in a Chinese political prison suffering.

	Oh well, Mark.  Last time I said you didn't know life in China
well and I do feel sorry for the tone.  But I still think it is wrong
to assume material life is not important if you know the exact living
standard the majority (not the city folks) Chinese now is living.

>China is a car; MFN will keep the gas tank full; but there's a madman at 
>the wheel. 

	May I offer another analogy?  :-)  

	I think a country is more like a transportation system than a single
car.  Such system needs a good directing manager, good, hard-wording
drivers, good markets for it to operate on and a good feedback system
for making wise decisions.  In US, the manager role is reduced and the
feedback system is enhanced, socalled free-market economy.

	In China, it used to be that the manager is the sole controller
and if the manager is a madman, it goes wild.  What is happending right
now is that the feedback system is slowly taking over some of the
controlls the manager had.  That is called the transition to market
economy.  Today, the manager/madman has far less controlled on the system
that he had just five years ago.  (Witness the decision-making in 
Guandong, for example).  And in addition to that, smaller but more
powerful transportation systems are being built abosolutely outside
of this madman's control and compete with it.  That is the hope to
push aside, or even get rid of, the mad man, I think.

>I understand the arguments that economic freedoms in China will lead to
>human rights. However, I don't agree with them. I'd rather concentrate on
>getting rid of the madman. And I don't think that the loss of MFN would
>cause great loss of life in China. 

	Unfortunately God did not set a quota for madmen.  Getting rid of
one doesn't necessarily mean there isn't going to be annother one.
It is the system that needs to be destroyed, but not to be destroyed in
a rush (like Russia).

>I don't think this is relevant. Do I deserve the same quality of life as
>Ross Perot, the queen of England, or Deng Xiaoping? Do they work any harder
>than me, or you, or anybody else? 

	Mark, in a reply to some netters point "human rights is irrelevant",
you asked "if you or your relative is in jail, do you still think it
irrelevent?"  I think that is a good question to ask..

	Now may I ask if you still think the quality of live is irrelevent
if you or your relative has to work 20 hours a day just not to be hungry,
do not have enough clothes to just keep you warm in the winter and a
family of six or more has to live in a same, small room, etc. etc. ??

	I believe the majority of Chinese do not have even the slightest
imagination of what Perot's life style is.  They simply want to have
a decent living.

	Remember Prof. Li Xiaoling's story that he had to live on an
office desk when he visited home?

>I'd like to see everyone in China have a standard of living like that we
>enjoy in the U.S., but that's not the point. If the wealth in China is going
>to be invested in the CCP (and it will be), I'd rather not contribute to it.

	No, the wealth is not invested in CCP (although they do take an
unfair share now).  It is gradually taken out of their control.



	 Eddie