From: thester@nyx.cs.du.edu (Uncle Fester)
Subject: Fan Mail From a Flounder
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix @ U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 18:06:05 GMT


	Excuse me for bringing this to the net, but I feel that this is
	where it belongs.  I have not done anything about posting binaries
	other than take a vote to find out if it was at all possible for
	us to create a separate group for that purpose.  I don't pretend
	to know everything about Internet and never will.  Neither do
	I pretend to know how everyone feels about binaries.  I am just
	a lowly user that likes to explore possibilities.  Now I am
	informed that it will be impossible to post binaries to this
	group without coming off as a "fascist".  Well excuse me folks,
	but I thought we were trying to come up with a workable solution.  
	Had I known it would be a total waste of time and energy, I 
	never would have entered this fray in the first place.
	Do not send me email about this subject.  Period.  If you wish
	to berate me for attempting to bring some sort of consensus to
	this newsgroup regarding binaries, do it here where it belongs.
	That's the way us "fascists" do things.  
	
	The following is an abbreviated account via email between me
	and an un-named dissenter.  If he doesn't like me posting this
	here then too bad. But then, again that's simply because
	I am a "fascist" and that's the way we are.  I don't have the
	text of my replies to him in full here.  That's because I
	didn't think things were going to get this far and didn't save
	them.  If he wants to put 'em here he can.  
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
			REGARDING THE BINARIE VOTE

He says:

    >Whichever way it turns out, please don't encourage folk to post binaries
    >to the regular group.

To which I reply:

    Now, I hardly think this is fair.  The vote is at 46 for, 4 against.
    We will definitely _not_ have a separate group for this.
    I don't see your vote on my list, but that wouldn't change anything.
    The upshot of it is, there will be few postings, and we will come up with
    a protocol to best handle the annoyance to people that don't want them.
    I can't think of one reason other than the subscribers to the digest
    format of this group, that it shouldn't be done.  Even in that case, there
    has to be a way around it.
    Sorry, but I _do_ plan to encourage it, and I myself plan to post binarie
    uuencoded files.  But not until the protocol is arrived at.
    For a machine that is all but dead, (most won't admit this) any and all
    sources available should be utilized.

His response:

It's a shame you feel that way.  There are lots of ways to treat this
problem in an inclusive way, but you're apparently dead set on forging
ahead with a course that will alienate some of the readers.  If you're
really interested in supporting an almost dead machine as much as
possible, I would think it would be a goal to keep eveybody on board as
long as possible.  Apparently the real goal it to take your own favorite
way of doing something and shoving it down the throats of everyone who
disagrees.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 11:15 EDT
    From: thester@nyx.cs.du.edu (Uncle Fester)

I said:

    I would hardly call 46 votes for the binaries against 4 no votes "shoving
    it down the throats of everyone who disagrees."
    As I said (since you didn't seem to catch it), I plan to post binaries
    _when_ a protocol is reached.  If you are a digest subscriber then I am
    sorry that you feel as if your "reading" will be somehow ruined.

To which he replies:

I've been running the digest and the archives for 5 years.  I *do* have
some experience of how this all works, and I've seen firsthand the
flurry of requests for unsubscription that arrive whenever somebody who
believes that netnews is the way of the whole world starts posting
binaries.  We lost ~15 subscribers last time, and if you persist in
doing this, we'll eventually lose a lot of the rest.

** I have to add here that I was ignorant to the fact that he is  **
** responsible for the digest form of this newsgroup.             **

(he continues):

You're obviously intent on doing things your own way without considering
whether there's a way to do things that does a better job of serving
everyone's needs.  So be it, I don't own the newsgroup any more than you
do.  I'm merely suggesting that you can be a fascist and proclaim that
it's the right thing simply because a bunch of people say so, or you can
do things a different way.  It's no skin off my nose, as I have other
means of reading the stuff that aren't impacted by binaries.  It *does*
impact people who read the digests over slow lines.

				  ... obstructive.

    Uncle Fester

You're the expert.   {HIS WORDS}
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
	Yes!  I'm EXPERT-MAN!  Able to shove things down throats in a
	single posting!  Faster than a speeding binarie!  Bend logic
	in my bare hands!  Fighting for the Fascist Way!
	
	Pardon me, but the last time I checked, my 'things-to-do' file
	didn't include forcing anything on anyone.  If there is not
	to be binaries postings, then I can live with that.  What I
	can't stand though is to be termed a 'fascist' for simply
	exploring the idea that it might be nice to have the option
	of posting binaries.  Where was your email back when this
	started, eh?  While there is admittedly overwhelming support
	for the idea of a separate group, there is no clear idea yet
	as to how we could possibly do such a thing here.  Is it
	impossible for the reasons given by no-name above?  Does
	anyone know?  Has anyone tried to find a way for a few
	binaries to coexist with the least amount of disruption?
	I haven't been in this group for 5 years, so how the heck
	should I know?  I thought that's what a forum was for; an
	assembly for discussion of public affairs.  This is the
	forum for the Atari 8-bit computer.  I don't run things here.
	YOU PEOPLE DO.  Post.  Don't post.  I don't care what you
	decide.  I am _not_ a fascist and never dreamed of aspiring (!?)
	to that mentality.  
	I know that I am being harsh with this.  I can't help that.
	I'm sorry.  I don't accept that something can't be done just
	because so-and-so says it can't.  I have seen only one 
	constructive suggestion regarding the conflict between the
	digest subscribers and those that wish to post binaries.
	That was from Itay Chamiel.  And you know what?  Nobody has
	said anything about it!  Why?  Apparently because no-one gives
	a damn, that's why!  
	I may come off as a screaming, fascist lunatic here, but at 
	least I give a damn about whether something should even be
	worthy of scrutiny in the first place.
	
	No apologies for anything I said.
 	Fascists don't apologize unless it's needed.
 	
   
	Uncle Fester
	(I'm the expert. NOT)
	
	   	
--
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