HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
X-Envelope-to: ETHOLOGY@FINHUTC.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"ETHOLOGY@FINHUTC"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ethology
Date:         Mon, 28 Sep 1992 18:04:00 BSC
Reply-To:     gomide@BRFAPQ.BITNET
Comments:     @FAPQ.FAPESP.BR - @FAPQ%FPSP.HEPNET - @BRFAPQ.BITNET - .BR gateway
Comments:     Warning -- original Sender: tag was GOMIDE@BRFAPQ
From:         gomide@FPSP.FAPESP.BR
Subject:      Apologies re: InterMeta course

PLEASE DO NOT SEND MONEY !
It is with regret that I perform this task. Dr. Gelson V. Gomes. a
professor of the University of Parana, Brazil, has exceeded this
privileges and announced a eletronic course:

> ____________________________________________________________
>        Mastering INTERNET Tools, Seizing METANET Power -
>                      The InterMeta Course
> ____________________________________________________________

I must apologize for this flagrant breach of network etiquette. Please
be aware that Dr. Gelson had no right to do so, since this is against
the rules of our ANSP network, and also against the Bitnet rules.
PLEASE DO NOT SEND MONEY!
I will not discuss what his motivations were. But his account has been
revoked, and there will be no such course through my network.

Please write by normal mail, to:
-> Gelson V. Gomes
-> 358, R. Alvaro Andrade - ap.1201
-> Curitiba PR BRAZIL 80610-240
to get more information on his objectives. He may want to give the
course by normal mail.  :-)

With regards,
--
Alberto Courrege Gomide | Fundacao de Amparo `a Pesquisa - (11)831-3357
Software Supervisor     | Rua Pio XI, 1500 - CEP 05468-901 - Sao Paulo
<gomide@fapq.fapesp.br> | FAX (11)261-4167 Telex (11)82014 - Brazil
(ACG8) - .BR Domain Technical Contact. |
--
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Subject: (no subject given)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Sat, 3 Oct 1992 23:57:43 -0400
From:         "(James E. Kiefer)" <kieferj@HELIX.NIH.GOV>

FOR SUNDAY 4 OCTOBER 1992

READING: Habakkuk 1:1-13; 2:1-4
 (The prophet begins by complaining that there is calamity and
injustice in the land, and the LORD does not prevent it. He receives
the answer that God is working out His purposes, and that the
righteous shall live by faith.)

PSALM 37:1-18
 (A psalm of encouragement for those to whom it seems that evil is
triumphant, assuring them that God cares for His people and will
vindicate them in His own time.)

EPISTLE: 2 Timothy 1:1-14
 (Paul encourages Timothy to hold fast to what he has been taught,
and to the gift of the Spirit that has been given him, and to
remember that suffering is a part of his calling, for the sake of
Jesus Christ, who has abolished death.)

THE HOLY GOSPEL: Luke 17:5-10
 (Jesus speaks of the importance of faith in God, and reminds his
disciples that a servant must not expect a reward for merely doing
his duty.)

PRAYER
   Almighty and everlasting God, who art always more ready to
   hear than we to pray, and art wont to give more than either
   we desire or deserve: Pour down upon us the abundance of
   thy mercy, forgiving us those things whereof our conscience
   is afraid, and giving us those good things which we are not
   worthy to ask, but through the merits and mediation of
   Jesus Christ thy Son our Lord; who liveth and reigneth with
   thee and the Holy Spirit, one God, for ever and ever.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: Historical Legal Proof (was "to Michael Kline")
From: comjohn@ccu1.aukuni.ac.nz (Mr. John T Jensen)
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 19:07:24 GMT
Organization: University of Auckland, New Zealand.

Eric James Ewanco <ewanco@MLO.DEC.COM> writes:

>there _is_ a disease which causes people to seek blood in order to alleviate
>their pain and has some of the symptoms was ascribe to vampires (for example,
>extreme sensitivity to sunlight) but of course they don't turn into bats or
>anything.

Say, this is interesting.  Can you give me a medical reference for
information on this disease?  I hadn't heard of it.

jj

John Thayer Jensen                      64 9 373 7599 ext. 7543
Commerce Computer Services              64 9 373 7437 (FAX)
Auckland University                     jt.jensen@aukuni.ac.nz
Private Bag 92019
AUCKLAND
New Zealand
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Delivery-Notice:  SMTP MAIL FROM does not correspond to sender.
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL0]
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 2 Oct 1992 15:55:47 CST
From:         Ian Williams <iwilliam@AU.ORACLE.COM>
Subject:      Re: Job Opening
              "HANNR@SERVAX.BITNET" at Oct 1, 92 11:52 am

Sigh, my heart grieves when I see a job advert stating that someone
has to teach CATHOLICISM.. What ever happened to teaching CHRISTIANITY???


sigh.. It is really one of the things that is like waving a Red Flag at a
bull thing to me..

---------------------+-------------+-----------------------------------------
Ian Williams         |    _--_|\   |      Internet: iwilliam@au.oracle.com
Oracle Systems       |   /      \  |	  Phone	  : +61 8 239 3900
Adelaide, Australia  |   \_.--*_/  |
                     |         v   |
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Delivery-Notice:  SMTP MAIL FROM does not correspond to sender.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 2 Oct 1992 13:19:00 EST
From:         "DRCV06::GRAHAM" <GRAHAM%DRCV06.decnet@DRCVAX.AF.MIL>
Subject:      You got me.

Peter, you got me fair and square.  Paul surely did say that he was glad to
have Jesus preached, no matter the motive.  He didn't fail to point out
error, but he was still flag to have Jesus preached under any
circumstances.

Thank you for pointing that out.  I will pray for the far younger Charles
Finney.

Dan Graham
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Orig-To: CHRISTIA@ASUACAD.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 29 Sep 1992 13:11:26 CDT
Comments:     Answering received message
From:         MICHELE LOFTON <MLOFTON@USMCP6.BITNET>
Subject:      RE: IS GOD EVIL?

> (from the King James): "And the Lord repented.."
> (NIV translation): "Then the Lord relented.."
> (New Oxford):  "And the Lord changed his mind..."

There are major differences in the versions shown.  We must remember that
humans wrote and translated the Bible into their own perceptions, which is
the only way they can.  No one is going to know how great the power of God
is. I believe the second one to be the more correct translation, although
it may have seemed at the time the authors wrote this that God had indeed
changed his mind.

Michele Lofton <MLOFTON@USMCP6.BITNET>
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Sun, 27 Sep 1992 13:32:49 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      re: Morality as hiring criterium (was Homosexuality)

Tim:

You say that pagans would not apply to work at a Christian bookstore.
You are wrong.  Do you have any idea how many people apply for a job
without even knowing what it is?  Plenty, I can tell you.

For example, there is a section on our application asking you to list
at least 10 books you have read in the last couple of years.  I can't
tell you how many people unapologetically tell me "Well, I don't read
much."

This is a BOOKSTORE, people!   If you don't READ much, you won't be much
of an employee!

I have a friend who is constantly applying for jobs for which she is
unequivocally unqualified (like "requires 4 years editing experience"--
she says, "well, I can type.").  While there are certainly people who
apply for jobs they honestly think they are qualified for, there are far
more who think that being in college qualifies them for any job there is.

It's really very annoying.

Love INC,

--Kerry
From: creps@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Steve Creps)
Subject: Re:      Re: Purgatory: Justice or Works?
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 20:54:29 GMT

In article <CHRISTIA%92093006154144@ASUACAD.BITNET> Wolfgang Hutter <HUTTER@DULRUU51.BITNET> writes:
>I won't arrive there impure, because I have washed my garments in the
>blood of the Lamb! And I won't arrive there unholy, because I have been
>sanctified through the Spirit by water - not through purgatory:

   Are you saying that you haven't sinned since that time???  What
Eric and I are saying is that there is still a tendancy to sin even
after Baptism.  I don't think there is anyone here who will deny that.
And I think everyone will agree that this tendency is there for most
people at death.  Well then, do people enter Heaven with this tendency
to sin?  If yes, then why does Scripture say no unclean thing shall
enter Heaven?  If no, then where is this tendency to sin removed?

And Tom Brewer writes:
>> Christ died for all our sins.  Nobody said there were venial sins
>> "not forgiven."  There may be venial sins for which sufficient
>penance
>> has not yet been done, but penance comes only _after_ forgiveness.
>> Penance does _not_ bring about forgiveness.
>
>Christ died for all our sins?????? Then STOP! No more! That's it!
>There is no need for Purgatory! GOOD GRIEF! These are your own words!
>Purgatory obviously says Christ's death is not enough. Somethin must
>be added to His attonement. If this is not works, then I'm, err uh,

   Christ died that we might have forgiveness for our sins, and His
death is what enables us to enter Heaven.  If it weren't for that,
then we wouldn't be able to enter Heaven.  But wait; there's more:
Christ died that we might have forgiveness for our sins, and His death
is what enables us to enter Purgatory.  For as no unclean thing shall
enter Heaven, and most of us are still unclean (have a tendency to
sin) even to the time of our deaths, Christ in His mercy also gave us
Purgatory, as a free gift to any who ask for it (by following or
"accepting" Christ), so that we might be purified in order to enter
Heaven.

-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
Steve Creps, Indiana University
creps@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 2 Oct 1992 17:47:00 CET
From:         Peter Tuff <TUK@IAEA1.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: More on C.G. Finney.

Hi, Dan -

Now that you're quiet (just kidding)...

If people are better off not hearing the Gospel rather than hearing
Finney's delivery of it, why was Paul happy that Christ was preached
for less than honorable reasons?

Note:  Charles Finney's grand-nephew works here at the UN office in
Vienna.  I've never talked about his faith with him, but my impression
is that he's a bit soured on something or other.  Maybe this is part of
the "Finney Fallout"...?  :-)    Anyway, pray for him if you would - his
name is Charles Finney.

Love in Jesus!

Peter
IAEA, Vienna
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 29 Sep 1992 19:57:39 EDT
From:         MKLINE%VDH.BITNET@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU
Subject:      Re: Super Book

Subject: Re: Super Book


Memo ------------------------------------------------------------------->
All Tuesdays and Thursdays there is a cartoon show on a local chanel called
Super Book. The Super Book is the Bible and this particular one takes two
kids and a robot to some passages of the OT (Noah, Moses, etc.) The program
is just GREAT !

The song says something like  'You can open it only if you believe in it'
refering to the Super Book.

I find very nice that the Book talks and calls the kids and explains itself.

Our children can watch this stuff !  Praised be the Lord for the people
that use their creativity to do something like this !

MAKS> It's an old series. I still get my children to watch it on
      Saturday's. It is being shown on the Russion Government channel
      paid for and sponsered by the Russian government every week
      night on prime time tv. In other words, they get Super Book
      instead of Murphy Brown. This is nice.

      You'll find they take some liberties on the strories, I can't
      remember which ones, but changes to make the story tell
      better. Still all in all, they tell of God being a loving God,
      and Jesus being a loving Savior interested in the affairs of
      men.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Delivery-Notice:  SMTP MAIL FROM does not correspond to sender.
X-Envelope-to: CHRISTIA@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 6 Oct 1992 14:37:11 PDT
From:         ng910@GVAL1.PNL.GOV
Subject: Re: Re>Clement & Sola Scriptura

Eric,

	What is the authority for the doctrine of "succession of bishops"
within the Catholic church?

Dave		ng910@gval1.pnl.gov
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Delivery-Notice:  SMTP MAIL FROM does not correspond to sender.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 28 Sep 1992 13:39:03 CDT
Reply-To:     bradk%isdgsm@rtsg.mot.com
From:         "(Brad Kaiser)" <bradk%isdgsm@RTSG.MOT.COM>
Subject:      Purgatory: Justice or Works?
              28 Sep 1992 14:22:40 EDT <9209281825.AA05375@motgate.mot.com>

In regard to the thread on Purgatory, 'MAKS' (I forgot your real name)
writes:

>> MAKS> The 1 Cor 3:12 judgement is for what we did on earth, and is as
>>       instant as any judgement. This isn't a baking process...

As I pointed out in the post which kicked this whole thing off, it's
consistent with Catholic teaching to assert that purgatory is the
"painful judgement of the saved one's works in this life".  How much
time it takes isn't an issue, and may not even be a meaningful
concept.  Who knows what our perception of time is like in the
afterlife?  Who knows what our perception of anything is like in the
afterlife?  Perhaps the judgement of the damned is identical to their
suffering, and lasts for eternity, while that of the blessed in
purgatory is instant, after which they are the blessed in heaven.

We don't know.

Other than that, I really liked your post!

In Christ's Peace,

Brad Kaiser
(bradk%isdgsm@rtsg.mot.com)

	  Those who trust in Him shall understand truth,
	  and the faithful shall abide with Him in love;
	  Because grace and mercy are with His holy ones,
	  and His care is with His elect.
		    -- Wis 3:9 [NAB]
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Delivery-Notice:  SMTP MAIL FROM does not correspond to sender.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 5 Oct 1992 15:15:00 EST
From:         "DRCV06::GRAHAM" <GRAHAM%DRCV06.decnet@DRCVAX.AF.MIL>
Subject:      What is clean?

Joe,

I know that many Jews contend that the regulations regarding diet given to
Noah are for everybody, but Paul says in Romans 14:14 that he is persuaded
that nothing is unclean of itself.  In 1 Timothy 4:1-5 you get an even
clearer picture of this.  There can be noreason for the dietary
restrictions to be continued, so James was in error.  The other side of
this is this:  If you feel it would be sin for you to eat blood, you must
follow your conscience, Paul makes this clear, too in Romans 14.  James had
a perfect right to adhere to the dietetic laws, but he had no right to ask
gentiles to do this.

Dan Graham
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 2 Oct 1992 14:01:55 EDT
From:         "MRATCLIFF" <SCICIRC@UGA.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Prpohetic Dreams, Spiritual Warfare In Dreams
              2 Oct 1992 15:57:11 CST from <iwilliam@AU.ORACLE.COM>

   Before I went to college, I often had dreams where gnarled hands would reach
 for me and mocking laughter would ring in my ears.  Also, I was plagued by the
 feeling that I was being followed.  I would catch glimpes of shadows in corner
s, only to turn around and find nothing there.  I was a Christian, but Satan wa
s not a subject brought up very often in my church.
   When I went to college, I met several people who had been with the church fo
r a long time and were strong Christians.  It was they who suggested the idea o
f demons.  At first, I thought they were crazy.  But then I noticed that the ni
ghtmare always coincided with any increase in activity that was Christian.  The
 more I went to church, talked about my faith, and got involved in church-relat
ed events, the more vivid the dream would be and the more frightened I would be
come.
   My friends realized I was in distress and didn't know what to do.  They star
ted pointing out scriptures that demonstrated Jesus' power over evil spirits.
I started to pray ernestly for His protection.  My friends blessed my room.  Fo
r awhile the dream came more often, but it no longer frightened me.  I would wa
ke up, tell IT to leave in the name of Jesus Christ, and go back to sleep.  I n
o longer have the nightmare. AMEN!

   My mother also has dreams, of a sort.  Frequently, she will be woken up in t
he middle of the night, praying for family or friends.  Once, she woke up to fi
nd herself seriously rebuking Satan to "keep his hands off" of a certain family
member who was going through a doubting period in their Christian walk.  She sa
id that she woke up, practically yelling.  My mom laughed about it, but I know
she took the incident very seriously.
   I know that all this sounds like a bad horror movie, but I believe that Sata
n uses our dreams to fight us.  We are more likely to dismiss a dream than an a
ctual apparition.   But I believe that if Satan can reach us thru dreams, then
so can God, and He has promised to be there for us. Thank you, Lord!

Marissa Ratcliff                Science Library
University of GA                Circulation Dept.
Athens, GA
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 20:25:44 EDT
From: Kurt Ludwick <KEL111@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: Dittoheads!

In article <CHRISTIA%92092713134124@ASUACAD.BITNET>,
MKLINE%VDH.BITNET@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU says:

>    MAKS> Well at least I know why there are Dittoheads. No, not just
>this article. With an audience of 7 to 11 MILLION a day, no wonder he's
>been labeled "The Most Dangerous Man in America." I like him!

Um, that's THIRTEEN million to you... :-)

>Maks....

------------
Kurt Ludwick
------------
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Delivery-Notice:  SMTP MAIL FROM does not correspond to sender.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 28 Sep 1992 21:22:44 EDT
From:         Lon Mendelsohn <LMENDELS@CMS.CC.WAYNE.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Rush, a Christian?

Kerry,

Aside from the fact that Mr. Limbaugh is a conservative shill, how
do you know that he is a Christian?

Shalom,

Lon Mendelsohn
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Organization: University of Massachusetts Dartmouth, North Dartmouth, MA, USA
X-Envelope-to: CHRISTIA@ASUACAD.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"CHRISTIA@ASUACAD.BITNET"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 30 Sep 1992 11:32:00 EDT
Comments:     A VAX cluster with VMS V5.5, PMDF V4.0-22, JNET V3.5 & UCX V1.3A
From:         Liz Moreau <EMOREAU@UMASSD.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: DEATH PENALTY- for or against?

>      If the death penalty was enforce today, the way it was in the
>      OT times, do you think we would have as much crime and adultery   -------
>      today?                                                            .com

I'm another one who still has to work out my position on this issue.
I lean heavily towards 'no death penalty.'  We are all appointed to
die once.  Who makes this date?  Us or our Lord?  As Christians we are
told not to judge?  Does this mean that it is okay to judge
non-Christians?

                                        Liz Moreau
From: gjm11@cus.cam.ac.uk (G.J. McCaughan)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Is my salvation the only thing that matters?
Date: 6 Oct 92 01:51:41 GMT
Organization: U of Cambridge, England

I often hear Christians talking as if the ONLY thing that ought to matter
to any individual person is that individual's salvation. For instance, in
the endless arguments about purgatory there were questions like "Do you need
to be 'purged' to be saved? If not, what's the use of purgatory?", while
the "other side" was saying that purgatory improves you by somehow clearing
away your sinfulness in some way that Jesus's death on its own doesn't.
(Or something; I expect I've misunderstood slightly.)

Anyway, the anti-purgatorialists seemed to be saying that there's no reason
why anyone should want to go through any kind of purgatory if it didn't
actually procure their salvation. And this sort of "my salvation is the only
thing that matters to me" thinking appears to be very common.

Now, I think this is totally contrary to scripture (especially to the gospels),
and pretty silly in any case. Jesus was constantly telling his listeners about
the importance of behaving in certain ways, and doing certain things, and not
doing certain other things. Ditto Paul, and the other NT writers of letters.
To be sure, the writers of the NT often talk a lot about salvation (of course!)
but I'm not aware of anything that says that I should only care about my own
salvation.

It's not even clear that salvation in general is all that matters. Many of the
commands Jesus gave have nothing obvious to do with anyone's salvation; he told
us to feed the hungry, and that sort of thing.

So I reckon we ought to be less scared of "works". The gospel that Jesus
preached is not one of salvation by works; but it is certainly a gospel of
works, in that its heaviest emphasis is on living a righteous life. The
salvation bit is very important too, of course; but it simply is not all
there is to Christianity. Faith in Christ may be all there is to salvation,
but salvation is not all there is to Christianity.
-- 
Gareth McCaughan     Dept. of Pure Mathematics & Mathematical Statistics,
gjm11@cus.cam.ac.uk  Cambridge University, England.    [Research student]
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Delivery-Notice:  SMTP MAIL FROM does not correspond to sender.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Sat, 3 Oct 1992 10:05:23 -0400
From:         Eric James Ewanco <ewanco@MLO.DEC.COM>
Subject:      Re: Historical Legal Proof (was "to Michael Kline")

Darren,

Well, I happen to believe that witches _do_ exist, and as for vampires -- well,
there _is_ a disease which causes people to seek blood in order to alleviate
their pain and has some of the symptoms was ascribe to vampires (for example,
extreme sensitivity to sunlight) but of course they don't turn into bats or
anything.

And of course there aren't many witches like the popular myth of old haggard
women stirring up weird concoctions and flying about on broomsticks, now they
are young, beautiful women in suits, but go to your local B. Dalton's and
look in the occult/New Age section and you'll find lots of interesting books
by and about witches and witchcraft.  I have spoken to a witch (she was the
girlfriend of a friend of mine).  I believe they can wield some real occult
power, though I do not think that such power is very strong today, for
example, I do not know a witch who can at will fly on a broom or traverse a
body of water in a sieve.  But they have been known to perform magick.

And Gary Hart is a sorcerer (a shaman) . . .

Eric
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU