HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bobk@ESD.3Com.COM (Bob Konigsberg)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Re: Mushroom pins
Date: 8 Sep 92 19:44:34 GMT

ayao@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Aubrey Yao) writes:


>I remember reading that the typical Master key padlock utilizes mushroom pins.
> Could someone explain to me the concept behind them and hopefully from that,
>I will be able to deduce why they are more difficult to pick than typical
>pins. :)

An ASCII graphic seems in order here.  Here is 1 mushroom pin *above* the
shear line:

           |  ____  |
------------  |   | ---------------- plug shell
------------- -   - ----------------- shear line
|           |  /  \ |               | plug body
|           | |   | |               |
|           | |   | |               |

As you can see (allowing for graphics resolution), there is a
false shear line below the top of the pin, and when picked, there
is a good chance that the picker will accidently get the wrong
place on the pin, and thereby prevent the lock from being picked.

BobK

Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: sethb@fid.morgan.com (Seth Breidbart)
Subject: Re: Card Key Locks
Organization: my opinions only
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 23:41:31 GMT

In article <1992Sep12.233828.21112@cco.caltech.edu>
pvmason@cco.caltech.edu (Peter V. Mason) writes:

>4. The key I was given enters the code for the key of the next user.
>I'm a little vague about this, but the implication was clearly
>that they do not need to go to the room to change the key for
>the next occupant. 

The way this works is, the microprocessor "knows" about a sequence of
change keys (say, 20 of them).  When key #n+1 is used, key #n becomes
invalid and no longer works.  Thus, the staff only has to physically
visit the door every 20 guests.  There are also special keys, for
instance, there's one that tells the microprocessor "back up one key".

Seth		sethb@fid.morgan.com
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: Larry Margolis <margoli@watson.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: Opening a Deadbolt (Request for Advice)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 15:54:38 GMT
Reply-To: margoli@watson.ibm.com
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: The Village Waterbed

In  <1992Sep10.125411.6932@samba.oit.unc.edu>  Paul.Elkins@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Paul Elkins) writes:
>
> What is a "slap-hammer"?  how does it work?
> Is this tool home-made or store-bought?

It's used for automotive work, mainly pulling out dents.  The tip contains
a screw that you screw into the sheet metal (or the plug), and the rest is
essentially a lead weight on a shaft.  Screw the tip into whatever you want
to yank out, then slide the weight along the shaft rapidly until it hits the
handle, and it will apply that force to whatever the screw is inserted in.

Larry Margolis, MARGOLI@YKTVMV (Bitnet), margoli@watson.IBM.com (Internet)
From: bthurman@uncavx.unca.edu
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Re: Homeric Lock
Date: 11 Sep 92 17:11:40 GMT
Organization: University of North Carolina at Asheville
Nntp-Posting-User: rcrisp

bearded Bill decided to share it, because chances are slim that your key will
match mine:


Subj:   Homeric lock

attempt quick verbal description
1.wooden bar slides on either (a) back of wall or (b) back of door
2.if (a) two retainers of bar on wall, one on door
if (b) two retainers of bar on door, one on wall
3.thong fixed onto bottom of bar, at midpoint of bar and thong, has one end
thru hole to outside on left other end thru hole to outside on right
4.top of bar has 2 or more holes into which bottoms of vertical pegs can fall
holes are set at desired intervals to match key
5.each vertical peg on inside of door/wall has shape and retainers so that it
can slide up and down and will not rotate in retainer
(one method will have been to design fanned out end of vertical peg above
retainers; this expedites larger target holes for key; also implies slot for
key will be set high)
6.metal key can be seen as almost anchor shaped, with as many prongs extending
back toward user as there are vertical pegs to be lifted by placing the ends of
the prongs in their holes
7.slot in door or wall wide enough to accomodate 'key' (which in turn must be
wide enough to cover all the pegs = 'tumblers') should have its bottom at just
the right level, so that, when the key is rotated 90 degrees and rests on
bottom of slot the prongs of the key will exactly match the holes in the top of
the pegs  --lift and pull thong
From: jhawk@panix.com (John Hawkinson)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Re: alt.locksmithing archive
Date: 15 Sep 92 18:28:49 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC

Hobbit has archived alt.locksmithing for us on babyoil.ftp.com.

--
John Hawkinson
jhawk@panix.com
From: tracker@wpi.WPI.EDU (William L Schongar)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Re: Card Key Locks
Date: 10 Sep 1992 12:37:43 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
NNTP-Posting-Host: wpi.wpi.edu

rlwst8+@pitt.edu (Robert L Williamson) writes:
>I don't know a whole lot about locks but I recently went to Disney World with
>a friend and the room keys we were given were simply these plastic cards
>with some holes punched in them.  Would it be all that hard to pick one 
>of these kind of locks?  Just curious (no I don't plan to break in to 
>hotel rooms). 

 On some models, those holes let LEDs emitted on one side pass through to the
detectors on the other. If you block certain holes, the door won't
open. It would be rather hard to pick, unless you could get something
back towards the solenoid and move that. They're reasonably easy to
disassemble from the front if the door is open, but when they took
apart the one in my hotel room (No, I didn't do anything to it, the
emitter batteries died.) it took them a good 5-10 minutes. And those
are people that know exactly what they're doing. Well, at least they
thought so.

 On other hole models there is a 'true' pin system, where it does
actually push certain pins. I would think that this would be difficult
to pick, due to the sheer number of pins present, and the arrangement.
There were about 30 holes in my cardkey, I think it was a Schlage
brand cardlock...I could be wrong. 

 Granted, there are problems with both of these systems, and ways they
can be bypassed. The former one can be outdone by collecting enough
keys, and stacking them up. What's left is a pattern of holes that's
the base pattern for the master key. Normally they modify that by
putting one hole in an obscure corner, just to annoy you.

 They normally keep the keys for the pin-card system, so you can't
stack them too easily to check for patterns. It would be incredibly
simple to make copies of either kind of key though.

-Tracker


Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: jdb@arp.anu.edu.au (John D. Barlow)
Subject: Re: Aussie Key design
Organization: Parallel Computing Research Facility, ANU.
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 00:11:55 GMT

In article <18tjjcINNei8@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, wb8foz@skybridge.SCL.CWRU.Edu (David Lesher) writes:
|> Has anyone else seen these? The vender says they are unpopular,
|> mainly because the keys tend to saw holes in pockets ;_]

Yep - strangly enough I have (G'day from down under).
We use these at my work.  The key has the following markings
on it:

	BiLock
	Australia
	regd. key system do not duplicate

as well as the phone number of our local lock supplier.  I have
also heard of these keys being marketed under "crocodile" brand
name (due in part to the double-teeth lower jaw appearance).  The
construction is relatively cheap - take a piece of flat brass,
put two (sharp) 90 degree bends in it, then add a piece of molded
plastic (which forms the "handle" part of the key).


side view:

	|``---...
	|        ``---...
	|                ``` ----_____  ____  ______  ______
	|                             \/    `'      \/      \
	|                                                    \
	|_____________________________________________________\

end views (x-section of side view):
	______
	|    | -plastic
	|    |
	|    |            ------
	||  ||            ||  ||               ||  ||
	||  || -metal     ||  ||               ||  ||
	||__||            ||__||               ||__||
	`----'            `----'               `----'

Crude ascii graphics excused, the (side view) left half is the plastic
tab-handle, and the bottom half is the bent-metal plate (the two
overlap in the bottom left quarter).

The key goes into the lock up to the half-way point (where the plastic
tab starts).  One problem we have had with this is the accumulation
of dust inside the "U" tube, next to the plastic tab.  This stops the
key from going all the way into the lock, then the key owners complain
that there lock doesn't work :-)

Basically it is a dual-row of pins, so picking is complicated by having
to pick two rows of tumblers "simultaneously" (I assume you would have to
try alternate sides, so it would take longer to pick).

I have seen NO evidence of the locks being any physically stronger than
standard single-row-of-pins locks, so the use of a sledgehammer is still
effective :-)

I have seen these used in our office (as standard door-locks) and I have
seen advertising for these in automotive alarm systems (after market
add-ons to the inside of your car).

I have not tried picking them, so I don't know how hard they are to pick.
Also I don't have much experience picking locks, so I couldn't really
compare them.  I can easily imagine copying one of the keys in the simplest
of fashions (after all, the key is a bent piece of sheet-brass with filed
V notches).

-- 
John Barlow, Parallel Computing Research Facility, Australian National
University, I-Block, PO Box 4, Canberra, 2601, Australia.
email = John.Barlow@anu.edu.au
[International = +61 6, Australia = 06] [Phone = 2492930, Fax = 2490747]
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: ayao@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Aubrey Yao)
Subject: Mushroom pins
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 16:41:05 GMT


I remember reading that the typical Master key padlock utilizes mushroom pins.
 Could someone explain to me the concept behind them and hopefully from that,
I will be able to deduce why they are more difficult to pick than typical
pins. :)

AY
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: Larry Margolis <margoli@watson.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: Opening a Deadbolt (Request for Advice)
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1992 23:16:42 GMT
Reply-To: margoli@watson.ibm.com
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: The Village Waterbed

In  <1992Sep9.221509.17883@leland.Stanford.EDU>  charles@leland.Stanford.EDU (Charles Benjamin Roosen) writes:
>
> I have lost the key to a deadbolt lock (I think it's a Kwikset).  If it doesn't
> turn up in a day or two I guess I'll call a locksmith to get it open.

If it's not a double-cylinder lock, you should be able to disassemble it
without the key.  Much cheaper if you take it to the locksmith...

> 1.  How big a job is opening a deadbolt?  Can it be picked relatively easily?

Depends on the cylinder.  A Kwikset is easy.

> 2.  Once I get it open what are my options in terms of rekeying?  Is it
>     straightforward to make a new key for a lock,

Yes.

> Is a new cylinder something I can get at a hardware store and put in myself?

Kwickset is meant to be easy to replace; the inner part of the cylinder
pops out and you can insert a new one.  I don't know if hardware stores
would carry the replacement.

> As long as someone's coming out to open the door should I have them rekey,

If you don't know where the key is, you want to rekey for security.
If someone's coming out anyway, the difference in price to have them
put in the new cylinder might not be too bad.  You could price it first,
then ask how much the locksmith would want.

> or is it much cheaper to just do something myself?

You want cheap?  If it's a Kwickset, try using a slap-hammer to yank out the
cylinder.  The inner face is held in with two spring clips.  (This assumes
the lock is not in a cheap hollow door.  If it is, this might not be a
cheap solution.  :-)

Larry Margolis, MARGOLI@YKTVMV (Bitnet), margoli@watson.IBM.com (Internet)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: andrew@cubetech.com (Andrew Loewenstern)
Subject: Re: Mushroom pins
Organization: Cube Technologies, Inc.
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 01:59:39 GMT

In article <79466@ut-emx.uucp> ifbb657@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Douglas Floyd) writes:
>How does one pick a lock with mushroom or pins?

One techniqe is to push the mushroom pins up to the top and then
"scrub" them down.

>-- 
>ifbb657@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Douglas R. Floyd)
>
>MS-Windows NT:              Disclaimer:  I speak for
>                            myself.
>Better DOS than Windows,
>Better Windows than DOS.


andrew
NeXTSTEP:  better than NT.
-- 
andrew@cubetech.com     | "We shall not cease from exploration
Andrew Loewenstern      |  And the end of our exploring
Cube Technologies, Inc. |  Will be to arrive where we started
                        |  And know the place for the first time." -T.S. Eliot
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: ben@monmouth.edu (Bennett Broder)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Re: Lockset revisited
Date: 14 Sep 92 13:12:45 GMT
Organization: Monmouth College, W. Long Branch, NJ  07764

In article <1992Sep12.231039.29805@watson.ibm.com> margoli@watson.IBM.com writes:
>1.  I wouldn't bother changing the doorknob if it's of decent quality.
>    Use a high-security cylinder on the deadbolt and don't worry about
>    "very high quality" for the doorknob.
>
>2.  The normal Medeco cylinder is a lot cheaper than the removable core
>    version, and much more secure than any other removable core system
>    I know of.  Do you really need the removable core feature?


I agree, don't depend on a key-in-knob lock as your primary lock, but:
If you want a Medeco cylinder in a key-in-knob lockset, you can put the
Medeco into an Arrow lockset and save some money.  I did this on my front
door so that I would have both the deadbolt and the lockset keyed alike.
(I would have used a passage lockset with the dead-bolt, but I don't feel
like getting out the key to throw the dead bolt when I'm only going to be
gone a few minutes, e.g. down to the corner to walk the dog)
-- 

Bennett Broder               Monmouth College
                             Computer Services
ben@monmouth.edu             W. Long Branch, NJ 07764
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: mkohlhaa@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (mike)
Subject: FAQ
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 19:22:04 GMT

Could someone please post or e-mail me the FAQ or it's archived location?

Thanks,



-- 

					-- Mike
From: ifbb657@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Douglas Floyd)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Lockset revisited
Date: 10 Sep 92 15:22:33 GMT
Reply-To: ifbb657@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Douglas Floyd)
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX
Originator: ifbb657@dewey.cc.utexas.edu

First, I would like to apologize for the bad typing on the last two
posts.  I am not yet used to the university terminals.

I am planning in a month or so to move into a house with my
older brother.  The locksets on the doors are OK but I am
looking for something better.   I am looking for a very high
quality knob lock and deadbolt set.  I have heard that Medeco
has locksets, and I am wondering if there is anything out there 
that is as strong (and cheaper) than the Medeco Embassy removable
core systems?

Again, I apologize for the bad typing in my first two posts, and
I thank you in advance for reading this.


-- 
ifbb657@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Douglas R. Floyd)

MS-Windows NT:              Disclaimer:  I speak for
                            myself.
Better DOS than Windows,
Better Windows than DOS.
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: Larry Margolis <margoli@watson.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: Lockset revisited
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 23:10:39 GMT
Reply-To: margoli@watson.IBM.com
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: The Village Waterbed

In  <79469@ut-emx.uucp>  ifbb657@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Douglas Floyd) writes:
>
> I am planning in a month or so to move into a house with my
> older brother.  The locksets on the doors are OK but I am
> looking for something better.   I am looking for a very high
> quality knob lock and deadbolt set.  I have heard that Medeco
> has locksets, and I am wondering if there is anything out there
> that is as strong (and cheaper) than the Medeco Embassy removable
> core systems?

1.  I wouldn't bother changing the doorknob if it's of decent quality.
    Use a high-security cylinder on the deadbolt and don't worry about
    "very high quality" for the doorknob.

2.  The normal Medeco cylinder is a lot cheaper than the removable core
    version, and much more secure than any other removable core system
    I know of.  Do you really need the removable core feature?

Larry Margolis, MARGOLI@YKTVMV (Bitnet), margoli@watson.IBM.com (Internet)
From: edwards@ee.fit.edu (John Edwards)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Re: Libraries - anti-theft systems
Date: 8 Sep 92 01:36:41 GMT
Organization: Florida Tech, CP/EE Dept.

>rdale@cstp.umkc.edu writes:

>> Some software stores use a similar system.  If you look, you'll
>> use it -- I see no indication that they've run it over a
>> demagnetizer.  It *could* be under the counter and activates
>> when the sale is entered, but why the subterfuge?

Well, a local music store used to have tags on them with what looked
like a strip of magnetic material, which the clerks had to run thru
their magic "demagntizing" machine in order to pass thru the safty
gate.  Even audio tapes.

Well, it actually wasn't a magnetic strip.  Instead it was a fine
wire coil. Essentially a flat inductor.  and the magic demagnitizer
was just the tip of a razor blade that cut the wires when you ran
it thru the machine.

I suppose they cammoflaged it in the hope that someone would try a bar
magnet or tape head demagnitizer in their attempt to steal, instead of
an xacto-knife.

Eventually they got tired of using the machine, and would just hand
you your purchase on the other side of the security gate.
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: harton@owlnet.rice.edu (Tracy Brian Harton)
Subject: Re: ABUS Granite
Organization: Rice University
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 04:34:06 GMT

>This lock's my favourite ! I've bought two of 'em and am still very
>statisfied. They are strong, virtually unpickable, and they don't
>rust because
> of the plastic outsides. The only way someone would be able to
>open these, is
> either with a key or with TNT (Or maybe an industrial drill).
 
Well, I don't think they're that unpickable.  At my college, one of the dorms
pulled a prank on another by putting one of these locks around the neck of
the other dorm's president.  Apparentely, the president simply went to
a locksmith and it was picked and removed...  

Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: lepard@mayo.edu (Kevin O. Lepard)
Subject: Re: Wanted: no. and addr. of locksmithing stores
Reply-To: lepard@mayo.edu
Organization: Mayo Foundation
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 16:23:31 GMT

In article 172423MABBC@CUNYVM.BITNET, The Computer.... <MABBC@CUNYVM.BITNET> () writes:
>
>Hello:
>
>    A long time ago, someone posted the number to a store where they
>had gotten their lockpicking kit from.  I had it but now it appears
>that I have lost it.  Can anyone send me a number to a store that
>sells lockpicks??  I would appreciate it also if the store has a
>catalog...  Any help is appreciated....Also is it possible for the
>responses to be sent to me in order to avoid crowded bandswidth..
>
>Thanks in advance..

Could you forward any responses you get to me?  Thanks a lot!

>
>*======================================================================*
>* Mabbc@Cunyvm.Bitnet      <== Bitnet                                  *
>* Mabbc@Cunyvm.Cuny.Edu    <== Internet                                *
>*======================================================================*


Kevin
---

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kevin O. Lepard
Internet:  lepard@mayo.edu

Disclaimer:  These opinions are mine alone and do not necessarily represent
those of the Mayo Foundation, Mayo Clinic, or any other person or institution.
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center
Date: Wednesday, 9 Sep 1992 13:12:23 EDT
From: The Computer.... <MABBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Re: dealing with complete novices

In article <2aa95114@babyoil.ftp.com>, hobbit@babyoil.ftp.com (*Hobbit*) says:
>
>The Big Hint is that it is permissible to push against the door, with your
>shoulder or something.  With sufficient discussion, even the seriously
>clue-challenged will realize that one of the latches will stick open
>and you can then let go of its knob.
>
>_H*

     I'm sorry but being a complete novice, such that I am, the
first thought that comes to my mind is not one about whether a latch
sticks or not.  As a matter of fact, the thought about any latch sticking
didn't even come to mind.. I am sorry to appear this picky but someone
has to stand up for all of the novices out there in Netland..

*======================================================================*
* Mabbc@Cunyvm.Bitnet      <== Bitnet                                  *
* Mabbc@Cunyvm.Cuny.Edu    <== Internet                                *
*======================================================================*
From: rlwst8+@pitt.edu (Robert L Williamson)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Re: Card Key Locks
Date: 7 Sep 92 20:05:09 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

I don't know a whole lot about locks but I recently went to Disney World with
a friend and the room keys we were given were simply these plastic cards
with some holes punched in them.  Would it be all that hard to pick one 
of these kind of locks?  Just curious (no I don't plan to break in to 
hotel rooms). 
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: yerazunis@cthulu.enet.dec.com
Subject: Kryptonite defeat time (was ABUS Granite)
Organization: Turing Police
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 20:02:10 GMT


In article <1992Sep12.222518.11060@rtfm.mlb.fl.us>, luckey@rtfm.mlb.fl.us (Jon Luckey) writes...
>Reminds me of the story I heard about the time when the first 'kryptonite'
>locks came out, with their guarentee to replace a bike if it was stolen
>thru defeating the lock.
> 
>Story was about people using liquid nitrogen to freeze the locks, then
>breaking it with a hammer.
> 
>Has anyone heard of such a thing happening, or should this be crossposted
>to alt.folklore.urban-legends?

Well, a friend of mine lost the key to his Kryptonite (clone, I believe) while
it was locked to his Vitus Aluminum frame (a >$2000 bike frame that he did 
NOT want damaged.)  

I recognized the bike as his, so I took the lock off- with a 20-Kilowatt
power pick (also known as a honking-big arc welder).

Time to defeat the lock: six seconds.  I must be getting out of practice.

	-Bill

Copyright 1992 William S. Yerazunis (aka Crah the Merciless)
All rights reserved, no responsibility taken.

     "If you don't get the President, you're gonna have to 
	answer to the Coca Cola Company."
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing