HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: liuyh@vis.toronto.edu (Yuanhui Liu)
Subject: Re: MFN
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto
Distribution: na  
Date: 19 Nov 92 15:58:14 GMT

In article <BxyyK2.58w@cs.psu.edu> echeng@phys.psu.edu (Eddie Cheng) writes:
>In article <92Nov19.100155est.52@orasis.vis.toronto.edu> liuyh@vis.toronto.edu (Yuanhui Liu) writes:
>>
>>The US ought to lift the embargo against Cuba too, it is really having
>>a lot to do with Castro humilated the US before, and the national Ego
>>demanded until the Cubans goes down on their knees & apologize and give 
>>Uncle Sam a nice blow job ;->, the sanctions will remain.  But nowadays
>>Uncle Castro can't deliever the candy to his people, if uncle
>>Sam wave some $$ bill in their face, even the most hardened Communist
>>will give it a thought.  
>
>
>	Same goes to Vietnam.  I have nothing against American's concern
>on their POW/MIA's.  But shouldn't they have a minimum concern on
>the feeling of Vietnam people?  After all, US GI's came from half a
>world away and killed much more Vietnamese people than being killed.
>
true.  But you gotta admire Castro a bit though, whether you hate the
man or not, he stood up against Uncle Sam for more than 30 years, 
refused to be a banana republic.  Now all his supporters are gone,
and he still stood there refuse to yield an inch.  Whether he's a ruthless
dictator or a "revolutionary hero", he's been a worthy opponent and 
should earned the respect of his enemies.  

On the other hand, Vietnam fought a bitter war with America before,
but watching CNN these days, I don't recall I have seen anything close
to the Hanoi regime's ASS KISSING moves toward some back-bench
US Senators, talk about a 180 degree turn.  I don't think Vietnam or China 
or N. Korea had ever kissed the USSRs feet like this before even during 
the period it was their strongest ally and provider.  
 
I mean, fine, give them the MIA information they needed, give them 
assistance, but discuss it on an equal basis, stopping licking the
Americans hands.  

>	The arrogant news report these days about how Vietnam government
>"suddenly" becomes coorperative and US President's message of "keep
                                                                ^^^^
>being a good baby and my money will come" should have demonstrated
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ "maybe" ^^
>the face of US international policy.
>
I don't think the news reports are arrogant, reporters can't make
Vietnamese officials suck up like this on live TV.  
>
>  
>	Eddie


Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.hongkong,soc.culture.taiwan
From: phsj@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Su Jianfeng)
Subject: Political Prostitutes or Democractic Activitists  ? 
Organization: James Cook University
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 06:13:29 GMT

The CMFN has been pushing by some CSSers in USA, who claimed to promote human
right and democracy in China, for about two years.   The reasons for them
to support their behaviours are built on only one assumption that the
Chinese government would improve the human right situation in China for
fearing of losing the MFN statue if the conditions were put on the MFN.
While there are no solid evidence for the CG to make the improvements
and no further reasons have been given, they tried very hard to push the
CMFN bill no matter what kind of the conditions were attached and they
had never given an estimate about the potential damage caused by the
CMFN bill to economy in China.   Until now, there isn't any reason given
for supportting CMFN, which is reasonable, but there are plenty of reasons
given by many persons, which are anti-CMFN.   This raises a question:
do the CMFM promoters care the human right situations in China ?   It is
more likely that some d-fighters feel they are too weak to deal with
CCP, they do not receive stronge interest and support from Chinese people,
but they are interested in starting their political careers in China.
Thus, they hope to get support from foreign forces, eg. some American
politicians.   The CMFN game is only a chance for them to use.   Of
course, there is nothing wrong for anyone to want to become a
politician, but anyone should not carry out his political career by
hurting others, especially hurting people's interest.  Here, I want to
raise a question:  

After the arguments on CMFN have been carried out for two years and
there are many reasons which are anti-CMFN bill, but few of reasons
supportting CMFN, if there are some d-fighters who still push for the
CMFN bill, do you think that they are democratic activities or political
prostitutes ?




J Su
From: jialin@jacob.botany.uga.edu (Jialin Li)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Chinese scholar getting tenure prefessorship without PH.D.?
Date: 16 Nov 92 18:56:04 GMT
Article-I.D.: rigel.1992Nov16.185604.21823
Organization: Botany Department - U of Georgia, Athens

In article <AA03885@oce.orst.edu> luan@oce.orst.edu (Shusheng Luan) writes:
>
>My friend would like to know if there are any cases such that a Chinese
>scholar has got a tenure prefessorship without a Ph.D. certificate.
>The friend is in his 40-50's. Due to modern Chinese historical events
>like "Cultural Revolution" he did not have the chance to get a doctorate.
>There might be such cases you may know.

A friend of mine came to this country as J-1 visiting scholar and
after few years of working at here, he got a tenure track position
at another university. His boss wrote a letter to certify that his
education was equivalent to a Ph.D and they accepted that.  I guess 
it will have a lot to do with how powerful the person who writes
the recommendation letter. This in Physics, if that matters.
From: liao@cs.purdue.edu (Qingyi Liao)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: ticket
Date: 20 Nov 1992 18:25:23 -0500
Organization: Department of Computer Science, Purdue University
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: ector.cs.purdue.edu

I have an one way air ticket from Seattle, Washington to Chicago, IL for sale.
Time Dec. 29 or any later time. Price:100$ OBO. Call or send e-mail if interested.
(317)-743-6889
(206)364-1927
(206)-667-4402
Email:liao@ector.cs.purdue.edu

Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.taiwan,alt.chinese.text
From: isc30176@nusunix1.nus.sg (CHEN JIA TYAN)
Subject: Re: Chinese character simplification, is it now necessary?
Organization: National University of Singapore
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 03:46:26 GMT

: An single example is not convincing. Here is counterexample, the insect
: "chong2". Don't you think one piece of the identical three is enough?

Yes.  There are some redundencies, but the FanTiZi characters enforces
the idea of the character.  JianTiZi are forgotten more easily --
errm... this is from personal experience, and from some friends -- in
Singapore we learn JianTiZi, and after about 4 years without keeping in
touch with Chinese (only studied for exam purposes), the few friends who
could read FanTiZi still can read novels, but many of those who could
only read JianTiZi can't even read the newspaper properly. 8-)
 
: Good point! How about building more schools AND making the language easy
: to learn

I think the language is already easy enough.  Bai1 hau4 wen2 is already
very much simplier than what Chinese used to be.  I don't think we should
simplify a language just for learning sake... afterall, people have
managed for the past thousands of years.
--
CHEN JiaTyan
isc30176@nusunix1.nus.sg
chenjiat@nusdiscs.bitnet
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: yeonwook@hardy.u.washington.edu (Mark Choi)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Anyone Study T'ang/Silla History?
Date: 17 Nov 92 04:39:40 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

Hello. For many months now, I have watched soc.culture.korea and especially
soc.culture.japan deteriorate in message quality. Most of their threads are
stupid and dull. I am happy that there is someplace like soc.culture.china
where I can be guarunteed of a good, decent, well though argument without
the stupid rhetoric of soc.culture.japan and asian.american.
	
To my request...I would like to discuss some topics with some people studying
T'ang Dynasty and Silla history. I am not Chinese, but I feel that people
today study too much Japanese history at the expense of Chinese history.
Chinese history must not be forgotten, since it is the mother of East Asia
culturally and historically. That is the problem with Western scholar idiots.
Western scholar historians study Japanese history as if it is the only thing
worth looking at in East Asia. They are ignorant of the fact that China is 
the REAL giant. Perhaps I am excited because I study history? No...people
studying any topic should come to admire China's history. I study the 
relationship between HAN Chinese dynasties and Korean dynasties (no Mongol
or Manchu barbarian stuff). I hope people call me neutral and unbiased.
But it is difficult for a human to be like that, especially a historian.

Japan can be proud of herself today because she did a very good job of
copying the obviously supreme West (today). However, Japan today is like
Korea yesterday. Korea was proud of herself because she did a very good 
job of copying the obviously supreme China. T'ang dynasty bestowed upon
Korea the title "Little T'ang". And Silla was very very proud because the
rest of the world was still barbarian.

Anyone wishing to talk historical theories with me, EMAIL PLEASE! =).
Please do not post followup articles to soc.culture.japan, because then
this subject will go on for years, with people attacking each other for
-- 
    .  .      +---------------------------------+
  --|--|      | Mark Yun Wook Choi              |
   /.\ |      | yeonwook@hardy.u.washington.edu |
  --|--|      +---------------------------------+  
Xref: sparky soc.culture.china:30656 talk.politics.china:2759
From: pwu@ai.mit.edu (Peng Wu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,talk.politics.china
Subject: Source of Clinton/Gore papers
Date: 17 Nov 92 18:00:57
Organization: MIT Artificial Intelligence Laboratory
NNTP-Posting-Host: blackjack.ai.mit.edu

{Disclaimer: This article was originally posted to other news group,
 it is reposted verbatim with the hope that this news group might find it
 informative.  The view contained in this article is the author's.}

Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa
From: mjl@bos.locus.com (Mike Leibensperger)
Subject: Re: WANTED: Clinton's platform
Organization: Locus Computing Corp., Boston Massachusetts USA.
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 15:34:52 GMT

There is a Clinton/Gore e-mail server, from which you can get position
papers and the like.  Here's part of a note someone forwarded to me.

	yr obdnt svnt,
	mjl

- - - Cut Here - - -

Send mail to:
        Clinton-Wins@mail.Clinton-Gore.org

Use the subject line to tell the server what to send back to you.
Valid subject requests:

  info all          sends you some info (includes all position papers)
  question get      sends you a list of e-mailed questions and answers
  add <issue name>  adds your name to an e-mail discussion list

<issue name> can be any of the following:

  Agriculture             Aids                    Arms-Control
  Arts                    Campaign-Finance        Children
  Cities                  Civil-Rights            Corporate-Responsibility
  Crime-Drugs             Democracy               Defense-Conversion
  Disabilities            Education               Elderly
  Energy                  Environment             Family
  Foreign-Policy          Gun-Control             Gay-Lesbian-Rights
  Health-Care             Housing                 Immigration
  Israel                  Labor                   Middle-East
  National-Security       Rebuilding-America      Science
  Small-Buisness (sic)    Space                   Veterans
  Women                   Work                    Yugoslavia

--
Michael J. Leibensperger      "Rats and roaches live by competition under the
Locus Computing/Boston		 laws of supply and demand; it is the privilege
25 Mall Road; Burlington MA	     of human beings to live under the laws of
01803 (617)229-4980 mjl@locus.com       justice and mercy."  -- Wendell Berry
Member of the League for Programming Freedom --- write league@prep.ai.mit.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: mlibucha@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Mark A Libucha)
Subject: Re: What is CMFN's real intention? Tell me!
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 15:58:48 GMT

In article <1992Nov20.132631.322@bradford.ac.uk> H.Wang@bradford.ac.uk (H WANG) writes:
>
>        For those who don't know what's CMFN's real 
>        intention, 'An American' netter told us:
>
>> .............................................And remember that we know
>>that the (as you point out very expensive) Cold War tactics did help to 
>>cause the totalitarian regime in the USSR to crumble. We know that ruining
>>the economy of a nation forces a bad government out. What makes you so sure
>>that helping to improve the economy of such a nation will destroy its
>>totalitarian government. (I would like it to be true, I just want to know what
>>you base your conjecture on.)
>
>        Yes, force that bad CCP government out by 
>        ruining the Chinese economy. Pure, noble, isn't it?

A couple of comments. Please follow the net protocol and give the names of
the people you quote. 

For the record. I wrote what is quoted above, but it is not clear from that
that I do NOT support the withdrawal of MFN, nor do I want to ruin the
Chinese economy.

>
>        But just a moment! What this American didn't tell you,
>        but has been written in that CMFN bill, is:
>
>> (`Down with CCP' stuff deleted)
>> .....
>>
>>(11) providing adequate protection of U.S. patents, copyrights,  
>>and other intellectual property rights, and implementing the  
>>Memorandum of Understanding Between the Government of the  
>>People's Republic of  China  and the Government of the  
>>United States of America on the Protection of Intellectual  
>>Property; 
>>
>>(12) providing U.S. exporters access to Chinese markets, including
>>lowering tariffs, removing nontariff barriers, and increasing the
>>purchase of U.S. goods and services; 
>>
>>(13) ceasing unfair trade practices which burden or restrict U.S.
>>Commerce; 
>>
>>
>
>       This, IMHO, could give you a better understanding of
>       what the real purposeof CMFN is.
>
>       H. 
>
>       Disclaimer: Above post only represents the view
>       of a Chinese named H.Wang, and has nothing to do
>       with U of Bradford, UK.


Xref: sparky soc.culture.china:30609 soc.net-people:1455
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.net-people
From: fyu@shanghai.oracle.com (Francis H. Yu)
Subject: Looking for Zhao Yiwei (Fudan/Leids/Huntington)
Originator: fyu@fyusparc2.us.oracle.com
Organization: Oracle Corporation
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 01:53:53 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

He studied English at Fudan in 1984-1986, and Leids University in
1986-1987, and then went to Huntington College, Indiana in 1987.  The
College does not know his where-about.  Any information is
appreciated.
-- 
Francis H. Yu
Oracle Corporation, 500 Oracle Parkway, Box 659504, Redwood Shores, CA  94065
Email:  fyu@shanghai.oracle.com  Voice:  (415) 506-3129  FAX:  (415) 506-7103
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,talk.politics.china,soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.hongkong,soc.culture.asian.american
From: hyx1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Harry Y Xu)
Subject: When was lantern (Deng1 Long3) invented?
Reply-To: hyx1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Harry Y Xu)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 07:06:40 GMT

A question for the historian:  When was lantern (Deng1 Long3) invented?
    I recently noticed that candles (Zhu2) were used even outdoors at night
    in literatures written in the Han4 and Tang2 Dynasties.  I assume it
    must be invented after Tang2 Dynasty then.

Examples:   (Ping-in with word-for-word translation below to assist reading)

1.	Ri4 Duan3     Ku3      Ye4 Chang2,   He2 Bu4  Bing3   Zhu2   You2.
	 |    |       /\        |     |	      |   |     |     |       |
	Day short sour(suffer) night long,   why not hold-up candle travel.

2.	Ri4 Mu4     Han4 	    Gong1 Chuan2 La4 Zhu,
	 |   |      /  \	      |     |      \ /
	Day dusk Han4 (the dynasty) palace pass   candle

	Qing1 Yan1    San4   Ru4  Wu3   Hou2   Jia1.
	  |     |       |     |    |     |      |
	Light smoke disperse into five marquis home.

Tnx & cheers,
--
Harry Xu (KB2LHA)	"Hell has no terrors for pagans."  --Arthur Rimbaud
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: xiaobiao@lynx.msc.cornell.edu.UUCP (X(b)Z,408A Thurston Hall,59155,)
Subject: Re: dating a guy from China
Originator: xiaobiao@msc2.msc.cornell.edu
Organization: Cornell-Materials-Science-Center
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 17:05:49 GMT

From article <1992Nov23.003610.1495@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, by hchiu@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Hsu-Ju Chiu):
> Hi, there:
> I am a student from Taiwan and I was dating a guy from China before.
> It seemed he liked me but he was afraid of falling in love with me.


That's not unusual at all!  (I had the same feeling?) 

> I was lost.
> would anyone give me a hint or any suggestions?
> Thanks!
> please email me:hchiu@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu


I'd say you'd better first think it _a bit over_ what your feeling is 
toward this poor guy, if any comments.  GOOD LUCK!
From: hongl@cs.tamu.edu (HL)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Please let Zhou Enlai rest peacefully
Date: 16 Nov 92 18:19:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: tamsun.1992Nov16.181926.5060
Organization: Computer Science Department, Texas A&M University

1).  I honestly believe Zhou had considered all the factors before he made 
the decision to do what he believed to be the best thing to do for china.

2).  Outsiders are always more clear than the people involved.  But again, 
outsiders may not know all the facts and difficulties he had to face.  
Pang2 guan1 zhe3 qing1, dang1 juu2 zhe3 mi2.

3).  For those of you who think he could have stopped Mao from doing wrong
things, think twice.  Zhou didn't have the power or military support.  Even
if he did, was starting a civil war really worth it?  People had suffered 
enough from World Wars.  Besides, he couldn't foresee what could happen in
the future, being in his shoes, he avoided internal fights by compromising.

4).  For those of you who think he should have stood up to Mao, then he would
be a hero, but would China be better off with a dead Zhou.  He put down his
pride, his honor, even himself, worked hard for the goals he believed would
be beneficial to China at that time.

5).  He was found with cancer in 1973, I think.  In the final 4 years of his
life, he could have chosen to lay back and rest, but instead, he chose to work
even harder in order to compete with time, to try to get as many barriers out 
of way as possible, and he suffered tremendously.

6).  For those of you who think he did wrong and want to punish him,
just think having no children as his punishment.  Even if the rumor were true
that he had children, then he couldn't know his children, live with his 
children, must be a painful thing.

7).  For those of you who like to judge people, just step in his shoes and
see if you can do better.  If not, then stop judging him.  If yes, then
have you done anything for the people.  Even if the answer is yes, shouldn't
you spend more time on helping others since you have the ability than judging
him.  May be you would say you don't have the power, but then since you have
the ability, you should be able to think some way to do more constructive 
things.

Finally, past is past.  I understand exploring the past would help us avoiding
mistakes in the future.  But concentrate too much on what would have been done
or what should have been done can't help us building a bright future.  Just
remember Zhou was only human being, he was not god, he couldn't control a lot
of things, he made mistakes, and he suffered for them.  So, I ask you all 
please let him rest peacefully.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: liuyh@vis.toronto.edu (Yuanhui Liu)
Subject: Re: questions of the Korean WAr
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto
Distribution: na 
Date: 21 Nov 92 18:13:19 GMT

In article <1992Nov21.174526.1204@netcom.com> kemnitz@netcom.com (Greg Kemnitz) writes:
>A thing that I've always found interesting is that most Mainlanders regard
>the Korean War as a "victory", while it has always been presented in the
>US as a "draw".  It is regarded as a "draw" in the US since the military
>situation which existed before the war is essentially identical to that which
>existed after the war, in terms of territory.
>
>It could even be argued that the war was a "limited victory" for China, since
>the primary Chinese military objective of maintaining a friendly buffer state
>between China and American armies was achieved, while "total victory" would
>have involved complete conquest of the Korean peninsula by either side.  I
>suppose this would be the argument used in China, although I doubt that the
>CCP uses the word "limited" :-)
>
agreed.  But I think complete conquest of the Korean peninsula was never
was the PLA's objective, Peng DeHuai is probably satisfied by capture of
Seoul and some territorial gain, however he couldn't hold them very long.

In my opinion MacArthur was a terrible general, in some sense he really
provoked the Chinese to come in to the war by pushing to the Yalu river,
and occasionally bomb the other side by "mistake".  That made the Chinese
really nervous 'cause there won't be a buffer zone left, and next thing
before you know the CIA will certainly be supporting nationalist gurreilla
warfare near that area.  

MacArthur also made the same mistake he made against the Japanese 
in the Philippines, he took little action to handle the "what if" even
after repeated warnings, which led to his force to be routed once again.

>The primary US objective of maintaining South Korea _was_ achieved.
>
>It seems that the real losers were the dead of both sides and the Koreans
>themselves, who gained nothing in the war and had their country wrecked.
>
true, the real losers are the koreans, the north lost more i think.  
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>Greg Kemnitz                        | "I ran out of the room - I
>MultiMedia Information Systems Inc. | didn't want to be killed by a pile
>kemnitz@netcom.com                  | of VMS manuals" :-)
>                                    |
>                                    | --A friend at DEC Palo Alto in the Quake
From: jzdong@sci.ccny.cuny.edu (Zunhai Dong)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Looking for a friend
Date: 19 Nov 92 21:31:52 GMT
Reply-To: jzdong@sci.ccny.cuny.edu (Zunhai Dong)
Distribution: na
Organization: City College of New York - Science Computing Facility


 Hi, netter

 I am looking for a person. His name is Baiyun Lin. Dr. Lin did his research
 at University of Utah during 89-91. If you know where he is now, please
 send me a mail, or pass my email address to him.

 Thanks in advance!


 Zunhai Dong
 e-mail: jzdong@sci.ccny.cuny.edu
 Tel: 718-798-2651
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china