HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pat@chinet.chi.il.us (Patrick Louis Sugent)
Subject: Re:  Science and god:  Are they incompatible?  If so, why?
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 05:17:34 GMT

ajm@wag.caltech.edu (Abner J. Mintz) writes:
>Michael says:
>
>>	"To be fair, they're hardly saying that people should go
>>around having unprotected sex.  Their line is that the main point of
>>sex is procreation within a monogamous marriage, and that sex which is
>>_not_ directed towards that is sinful.  
>
>Abner blinks, looking startled.  "Wait a minute ...  If sex not directed
>towards procreation is sinful, then does the Catholic Church officially
>oppose sex after the wife hits menopause?"  After considering a bit, Abner
>is sure that he would have heard about any belief that silly.  Still, that
>means there must be a flaw in the logic chain somewhere.  "If the Catholic
>Church *doesn't* oppose sex after the woman hits menopause, how would they
>make that consistent with sex being sinful if not aimed at procreation?"
>

   "I'd be very interested if someone actually has the 'official' Church
answer to this.  I know that priests where I grew up actually subscribed
to the theory that sex after the wife hits menopause is sinful.  In fact,
one priest taught this to a classroom of fifth grade students.  Obviously, 
that created a great deal of trouble for my mother who was the teacher of
the fifth grade students at the time."

  "I have since been told that this is
not the official position of the Catholic Church and that the priests in
question were 'free-lancing'.  I'm really not sure which is true."

  "Even if it is the 'official' position of the Catholic Church, I'm
pretty sure that most Catholics don't even know about it and certainly
don't subscribe to that theory." 

  
Pat


-- 
Patrick Sugent                       

pat@chinet.chi.il.us		     
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: pmpusbob@iastate.edu (Christian M Charlebois)
Subject: Re: Science and god: Are they incompatible? If so, why?
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 07:39:12 GMT

	During this debate about God and science, a tall, well-built man at the
bar turns from is have empty Grape NeeHi and pipes up.
	"I'm just a newbie here, but I've been listen to this conversation and
I think I have something to add.  First of all, I guess I could be called a 
deist, though I do believe in a God that cares about and loves us on a personal
level.  The fact that I think throws people is the concept of time.  God is
perfect, omnipotent, and unchanging.  He is not effected by time.  To Him, 
everything happens at once.  A good analogy is three-dimensional coordinate
space.  As humans, our actions are along the x-axis.  Time is constantly 
moving us along the y-axis.  God, however, exists on the z-axis, so nothing,
I mean *nothing* happens unless He wants it to.  And if he wants something to
occur a certain way, he can simply change something at the beginning so the
result is the desired product.  Instead of adjusting the machine, He goes
back and changes the blueprints."
	"Oh, as way of introduction, my name is Pompus Bob.  For the record,
I'm officially non-denominational Protestant, I attend an Evengelical Free
Church, and love intelligent, calm, theological discussion.  I mean if a belief
can't stand up against criticism, it's not worth believing.  My dimensions are
6'4, 225 lbs., 34" waist.  My favorite ice cream is double fudge chocalate.
Favorite movie is Princess Bride.  Turn-ons include great music, great
conversation, and women who don't.  Turn-offs are politicians, rude people, and
women who smoke. (center-fold picture withheld by request)"
	The large man pulls a twix bar from the inside pocket of his blue 
trenchcoat and begins eating it, washing it down with the remains of his
Grape NeeHi.  He orders another and turns to hear any responders.


***********************************************|*******************************
Liar, Lunatic, or Lord?                       *|*
 "You must make your choice. Either this man  *|*   Pompus Bob
was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman *|*       wandering the
or something worse.  You can shut Him up for  *|*       wastelands of the mind
a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a *|*
demon; or you can fall at His feet and call   *|*
Him Lord and God."     C.S. Lewis             *|*
***********************************************|*******************************

Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: jpalmer@onetouch.COM (John Palmer)
Subject: Re: God and Science: The Ramblings of The Nightstalker
Organization: MCS/OneTouch, Inc.
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 22:18:27 GMT

steve@crc.ricoh.COM (Stephen R. Savitzky) writes:

>"Now some people believe that, for example, proselytizing and calling
>for the death of nonbelievers are *evil* (and in fact are the *same*
>evil, differing mainly in the amount of threat applied to effect a
>conversion).  In other words, we're not merely talking about
>*distance* from some absolute morality, but *diametrically opposed*
>positions.  This strongly indicates that, at least on some matters,
>there is no observable absolute morality.  (You'll note that I say
>*observable* -- there may be one, or several, but there's no objective
>way to identify one.)"

    Hmmm.  I disagree.  Mind, calling for the death of nonbelievers can be
argued against on different grounds, but preaching/proselytizing, etc is a
different matter. . . 

    If a person is dying and you have a life giving drug, you can easily argue
that you have a moral obligation to administer that drug.  (I did NOT say you
can 'easily AND CORRECTLY' argue. . . just that the argument is easy to see)

    I think that the only argument that stands against that is, if the
administration of the drug can cause a fatality, you have to have the
cooperation of the person to whom it's being administered.  (ie, if you're
pissing off the person you're preaching at, it's time to back off with a
vengeance.)

    Thus the question of the morality of preaching 'the word of god' depends
entirely on your view of what the word of god will do. . . if you believe it
will do nothing, you get pissed off when people try to shove it down your
throat.  If you believe, as some Christians do, that it is the only path to
salvation, you HAVE to try to administer it to the 'dying'.

    That means that it's NOT a 'relative' object; different circumstances yield
different decisions, but no one said that absolutes have to be broad. . .

    Well, I guess I could go on, but I think I'm starting to get drawn into a
religious discussion here again, and I think I DON'T want to do that.

                                                 John

-- 
John Palmer					jpalmer@onetouch.COM
Columbus, OH					...!uunet!onetouch!jpalmer
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: pope@physics.su.OZ.AU (The Nightstalker)
Subject: Re: God and Science:  The Ramblings of The Nightstalker
Organization: School of Physics, University of Sydney, Australia
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 04:36:58 GMT

In article <102305@bu.edu> mjmh@crsa.bu.edu (Michael J M Holmes) writes:
>In article <1e78bdINNppi@gap.caltech.edu> ajm@wag.caltech.edu (Abner J. Mintz) writes:
>
>"This is one of the most interesting topics that came out of my
>talks with my brother."
>
[alot of stuff deleted for brevity]

>"I hope this helps people on both sides of the issue.  I learned that
>I couldn't stop my brother's evangelizing impulse without seriously
>compromising his freedom of religion.  My brother learned to evaluate
>the effect he was having on people, that his actions often speak
>louder than his words, and not to expect 'instant' results.  We
>also learned to disagree and still respect each other.  The compromise
>allows both of us to retain our beliefs, and still benefit from a
>good brotherly relationship."
>
The Nightstalker listens intently to Mike as he speaks of his brother,
and sighs.

"Ah, to have a brother.  I am glad that you and your brother get along
as you do.  I can relate to your brother though, to want people to know
Christ, and to do it with both feet in ones mouth and ones head up one ass
is a good trick that I am perfecting."

The Nightstalker laughs at himself, and turns to Mike.

"Another crush?  Mike, whatever this fellow wants.  Gee, I think I
am building up a hefty tab!!"

"To siblings!"

<crash>


--

Mick Pope,                                          I      "On Christ the
Sir Frank Packer Dept of Theoretical Physics,   ----+----   solid rock I
School of Physics, University of Sydney,            I       stand, all other
Sydney, Australia, 2006.  (02) 692 3241             I       ground is sinking
                                                    I       sand." - C. Wesley
                                                    I 

And the comment for today is:  

          
"If it bleeds, we can kill it."  -Arnie  'Predator'
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: Rejoice, and Velvet reels
From: DPERRY@eagle.wesleyan.edu (DAVID M. PERRY)
Date: 23 Nov 92 12:57:54 EDT
Distribution: world
Organization: Wesleyan University
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.20In-Reply-To: olson@husc8.harvard.edu's message of 23 Nov 92 03:34:36 GMTLines: 17

In <OLSON.92Nov22223436@husc8.harvard.edu> olson@husc8.harvard.edu writes:


> "A bodhran, anyway, is a hand-held drum about the same proportions as a 
> tambourine, only somewhat larger.  You hold it by the two crossed struts
> in back, and hit it with a short two-ended beater.  A really nifty bass
> sound, and you can do some really nifty rhythms with it.  Most Irish/Celtic
> bands use one at least occasionally."
>
"By the way," inserts Jack Crow, "it was first developed (according to a folk
music teacher of mine) by the drummer for "the Chieftans" about thirty years
ago.  The drum was around as a message drum or for ceremony type stuff, but the
Chieftan drummer developed the style.  They have tenor bodhrans as well."

One of Jack's Crows

"I'll be back in a minute."---Godot
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: scw@babbage.seas.ucla.edu (Stephen C Woods)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: Gasoline Taxes
Date: 18 Nov 92 00:44:48 GMT
Organization: SEASnet, University of California, Los Angeles

In article <1992Nov10.004333.24437@ttinews.tti.com> hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath) writes:

>I remember at least one case of a pregnant woman claiming to be two
>people.  I don't recall whether she got away with it.



She didn't, $270 fine <BANG> pay the clerk. 
-- 
-----
Stephen C. Woods; UCLA SEASNET; 2567 BH;LA CA 90024; (310)-825-8614
UUCP: ...{ibmsupt,ncar!cepu}!ollie}!scw  Internet:scw@SEAS.UCLA.EDU
From: dkrum@romeo.caltech.edu (Krum, David Michael)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: An Introduction
Date: 20 Nov 1992 00:17 PDT
Organization: California Institute of Technology
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: romeo.caltech.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

So this is my first original posting.  I suppose an introduction is in order
as my father has not felt it necessary to do so besides to announce an 
invasion of the Krums.



-------------BOOM!  ZAP!---------------

With a flash from a poorly written cyberspace display procedure, a figure
appears in the doorway.

"Oops!  Where am I?"

Confused and shaken by improper virtual reality entry, Dave "the Wave" creeps
quietly into a corner and listens in.  A familiar voice and figure catches his
attention.

"Dad?"

Dave is further confused.  The Boss Troll appears to be his father.  In fact,
a few bystanders notice the resemblance.  To Dave's relief, the Boss Troll
does recognize him as his son.

Dave steps to the bar then realizes that even at Callahan's, you probably
shouldn't drink if you are underage, especially if your father is there too.
Fortunately, he is able to order a Coke. (not one of those skinny little
Cokes that come with more ice than soda)

He stands on a bar stool.

"Hi, I'm David Krum, a Junior Engineering and Applied Science Major at Caltech.
I specialize in computer science.  I have a Navy ROTC scholarship which means
I am in the Navy Reserve, I get to wear cool uniforms, but I also get chewed
out a lot, have lots of inspections, have to wake up at 3:45 in the morning to
get ready, and drive the 110 freeway through Downtown LA at rush hour to
get to USC where NROTC meets.  Fortunately, it pays all my tuition." 

"To those of you who are associated with Caltech, I live in Page House.  I am
a TA for the introductory CS class here.  I drive the really neat yellow
volvo station wagon you see parked out on San Pasqual and Holliston.  Don't
dent it, and please if the headlights are on when it is parked, tell me!
I've discharged the batttery twice that way since I've had it."

The crowd has hushed a bit.  Dave looks around for some kind of response.

"Dad," he whispers to Boss Troll, "What is this place anyway?  Did I touch on
some cultural taboo here?  Is this a bar?  Is this virtual reality?  Is this
cyberspace?  Is this the holodeck or 10-forward?"


David Krum

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"This isn't reality, this is fantasy."
                                         --Nyota Uhura
From: ajm@wag.caltech.edu (Abner J. Mintz)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: Another introduction...
Date: 21 Nov 92 00:42:44 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: davinci.wag.caltech.edu

>>>/* has always been a bit unhappy about the fact that he discovered
>>>Heinlein so late in life.
>>>"I didn't even *know* about RAH until I picked up 'Stranger' in college.
>>>I'd been reading sf for a long time, so I don't have a clue as to what
>>>took me so long."

>>"You poor soul ...  well, I hope you read some of RAH's good novels
>>eventually?"  Abner slyly looks over at Kitten, waiting for the explosion.


>kitten flings herself at abner and starts to tickle him violetly (i
>know that is repetitious, but it works...)

After an initial "Yipe!" of surprise, kitten's tickling doesn't seem to have
much effect on Abner ...  which takes a lot of the fun out of it.

Abner gets his back to a wall, then mutters "Boy, am i messed up ... my only
tickling area is my back, so I don't mind tickling and I can't stand backrubs."

Then he realizes the advantage of this.

Tickle tickle tickle!
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: mar@physics.su.OZ.AU (David Mar)
Subject: Re: UK Realspace
Organization: School of Physics, University of Sydney, Australia
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 00:29:32 GMT

> [Rhodri (Windsinger) announces a UK RealSpace for the Wolf's visit]

Uh-oh. Danger Mouse is curious now.

"I just had a thought. I (and a few other Aus Callahanians) have met the
Wolf in RL. And now he's meeting Rhodri and a bunch of UK Callahanians.
I've also met shadowshine, who has met Castellan, who has met...

"Get the picture? I'm wondering just how far chains of mutually RL-met
Callahanians go. I envisage a big chart, showing all the links, from
which one could read off the various connections. Like a graph network
in computer science theory.

"Hmmm... is anyone willing to compile the information? And yes, I
realise the difficulty and impracticality of it all. I'm just really
curious. And I'm dangerous when I'm curious. <evil grin>"

- Danger Mouse.
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: s9000938@cumulus.csd.unsw.OZ.AU (Doormat)
Subject: A variety of non-related junk
Organization: University of New South Wales
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 15:57:34 GMT

From where he is leaning Doormat wanders (grinning inanely) to the door
and steps outside. He returns momentarily holding a bottle.

Placing the bottle on the bar he turns to Mike saying "This bottle of
Dom Benedictine was given to me for my 21st. The lady who gave it to
me shared a glass of it with me that day."

Turning to look at the crowd he continues "The next time I opened it was
several years later at a party to celebrate my discharge from the Army."

Turning once again to face Mike he says "I have only opened this bottle on
those two very special occasions. I have only shared it with friends."

"This is my version of wonder booze, and invite those who wish to drink
of it".



Doormat


--

=======================================================================
: Jacqui Quenell  s9000938@cumulus.csd.unsw.OZ.AU    Dept of Bio Tech :
=======================================================================
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: dbriggs@zia.aoc.nrao.edu (Daniel Briggs)
Subject: Re: An Introduction
Organization: National Radio Astronomy Observatory, Socorro NM
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 17:28:44 GMT

In article <1992Nov22.220000.8756@data-io.com>
  li@Data-IO.COM (Phyllis Rostykus) writes:
>"Hi, I'm Liralen Li, a Lloydie of '85."  She grins,
>"Dan'l's around here, somewhere, too, he's of my House and class.  My
>hubby's John Rostykus, Lloydie, '86, who was roommate to Dave Gallup, one
>of the few Lloydies who were also initiated as a Page Boy due to social
>ties.  I was also a social Flem in my time."

Dan'l leans over Liralen's post with a blue markup pencil in his hand,
and adds

and class.
         ^ and a social Scurve

-- 
| Daniel Briggs  (dbriggs@nrao.edu)                      |  USPA B-14993
| New Mexico Tech / National Radio Astronomy Observatory |      DoD #387
| P.O. Box O / Socorro, NM 87801   (505) 835-7391        | 
Support the League for Programming Freedom   (info from lpf@uunet.uu.net)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: /G=Rhodri/S=James/O=SJ-Research/ADMD=INTERSPAN/C=GB/@mhs-relay.ac.uk
Subject: UK Realspace Update
Organization: Yale CS Mail/News Gateway
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 18:17:41 GMT


------------------------------ Start of body part 1

This is a quick plea for anyone who is intending to come to the UK 
Realspace next weekend (28th November) to PLEASE LET ME KNOW.  Crash space 
is limited unless I arrange more, and I'll only do that if I know I have 
to.  So come on, let me know if you might come, just on the off-chance!

Cheers,
        Rhodri, sometime Windsinger

PS: Please bring a sleeping bag!

------------------------------ Start of body part 2

---
Windsinger  -  Rhodri James    *  "If music be the food of love,
                               *   play me a tune on your jam buttie."
Rhodri.James%gb.INTERSPAN.sj   *
            @mhs-relay.ac.uk   *           -- Ken Dodd
   or                          *
rmj10@phx.cam.ac.uk            *

------------------------------ End of body part 2
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: maryb@cix.compulink.co.uk (Mary Branscombe)
Subject: Re: CD's Early Thanksgiving Ramblings
Reply-To: maryb@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 15:49:00 +0000


in reply to  Sean C. Malloy  -  Texas A&M University  -  scm@tamu.edu


Mary looks up at CD's entry and wanders over shyly.....
Would a hug help any? 

mary
apprentice potter

+-------------------------------------------+--------------------------+
| pending repairs.....                      |maryb@cix.compulink.co.uk |
|                                           |                          |
| under new management!                     |maryb@cix.compulink.uucp  |
+-------------------------------------------+--------------------------+

Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: li@Data-IO.COM (Phyllis Rostykus)
Subject: Re: Non-intrusive Christians, or ones who try to be
Organization: Data I/O Corporation
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 02:08:36 GMT

In article <ssample1-191192122225@mac14.dupont1a.swarthmore.edu> ssample1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Stephen and Roo) writes:
>	MMBEEEEEEHHHH!

Liralen blinks at the noise and the amazing tabs.

>	Stephen looks harriedly up from his table and gives Liralen a greatful
>grin.

She smiles back.

>	He pulls four pins off his stickbag and sticks them to his lapel
>			Straight But not Narrow
>			(the pro-choice pin with the no coathangers symbol)
>			This Explains Why My Clothes Stay on the Floor
>			Dont Feed or Tease the Morris Dancers

She laughs softly, especially at the last, as her brother-in-law is a
Morris Dancer.

>	Thanks for all you said.
>	By the way, how did your O&A effort go? I haven't heard anything further
>about it.

"It's still in progress.  We don't really expect a final decision until
next June, as we have to reach a concensus about it all.  Patience is a
virtue." Liralen says while tapping with one finger on her table, and then
she stops and laughs. "Though it's *awful* painful when it's about
something I care about so much.  Thing is that all of the boards, the
Trustees, Chrisitian Education, Parish Care, Diaconate, Christian Concerns,
and Stewardship have all been given budgets for education on the issue, and
in my position on the Church Council I can see that we're getting the
information out, and while it's slow, it's also a fairly thorough coverage
of all the interest groups.  From testing the waters, our pastor is fairly
confident that things are going to work out, but we'll see.  We'll just
have to wait." she says and wrinkles her nose at her own impatience...

----
Liralen Li
li@Data-IO.com
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: Catholicism vs. Contraception
From: jwwalden@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu (P'relan)
Date: 21 Nov 92 14:43:55 -0500
Organization: Dept. of Physics

In article <0f2wjne00awT01Q1U3@andrew.cmu.edu>, Mark Beirne Lively <ml5a+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
> 	Obout the after menopause and the use of the rythem method.  Both are
> allowable because it is still possible for a child to be born.  There
> are at least 2 bible stories where a child was born after the woman was
> too old.  So there is a possiblity that a child could be born if it was
> God's plan without too much difficulty or trouble onhis part.  With the
> rytem method there is the same arguement.  That the cycles are generally
> evenly spaced but it is a relatively common occurance for the timing to
> be off(at least thats What I was told in sex ed many years ago)

Now that argument doesn't make too much sense since it's still possible for
conception to occur even when "artificial" means of contraception are used,
and especially if it's God's plan for conception to occur, then there wouldn't
be much we could do about preventing it, is there?  It seems to me that the
whole idea has to be that you shouldn't oppose God's will and whether you do
so with natural of "artificial" means is irrelevant - none of the methods are
absolutely preventitive and even if so there could always be a miracle.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 P'relan (and Birith)      	   ``Time stand still -
 jwwalden@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu      I'm not looking back -
  or jwwalden@miavx1.bitnet	     But I want to look around me now.'' - RUSH
From: lydick@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Speaker-to-Minerals)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re:  Science and god:  Are they incompatible?  If so, why?
Date: 21 Nov 92 01:24:22 GMT
Reply-To: lydick@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu

In article <1992Nov20.023958.28654@data-io.com>, li@Data-IO.COM (Phyllis Rostykus) writes:

	[120 lines of an excellent post deleted for the sake of brevity]

StM points out, "Well, someone in here recently claimed that it seemed highly
unlikely that there could be a pro-Christian post to which I wouldn't raise
objections.  Well, that person might want to save Liralen's post as an example
of the fact that he was mistaken."
From: JBrandt@AAA.UOregon.EDU (Jay Brandt (Jason))
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: Robin Williamson
Followup-To: alt.callahans
Date: 23 Nov 1992 21:06:44 GMT
Organization: University of Oregon, Architecture
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: aaa.uoregon.edu

In article <memo.762481@cix.compulink.co.uk>, maryb@cix.compulink.co.uk
(Mary Branscombe) wrote:
> 
> In-Reply-To: <JBrandt-201192133329@aaa.uoregon.edu> JBrandt@AAA.UOregon.EDU (Jay Brandt (Jason))
> 
> excellent!
> Mary is laughing so hard she has to sit down
> I enjoyed than an ocelot too. Oh deer, I'll just have to sit here 
> quietly until the mewed passes and I can flit bat to Rowna's tea 
> table

Jason smirks and says "I'm sow glad you liked it, my deer. I herd it a
whale back, and it'll be a colt day before I forget that artist." :-) He
walks over to Rowan's table and asks "Did you mention scones?" with a
hungry look in his eyes.