HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: brom@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (David Bromage)
Subject: Re: CityRail (Sydney)
Organization: Monash University General Access Unix
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 00:49:49 GMT

Dave Horsfall (dave@eram.esi.COM.AU) wrote:
: In article <6913@otc.otca.oz>,
:     brendan@otc.otca.oz (Brendan Jones) writes:

: | Yup!  CityRail has 274 stations if memory serves me correctly.

: And the trick is to visit every one of them in a single day.  It can
: be done.  Hint: wake up early.

Depends how you define "day". Do you mean daylight hours or any 24 hour
period?

: -- 
: Dave Horsfall (VK2KFU)         VK2KFU @ VK2RWI.NSW.AUS.OC
: dave@esi.COM.AU                ...munnari!esi.COM.AU!dave
From: rob@xyzoom.info.com (Rob Lingelbach)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: SLC<-->Denver: suggestions needed
Date: 26 Dec 92 03:42:55 GMT
Organization: Altruistic Intentions, Hollywood CA

I hope it's ok to post this question to rec.railroad instead of
rec.travel.... apologies if this is not technical enough, or at too
low a level :-).

I drove from Leadville, Colorado to Glenwood Springs, Colorado this
week, and couldn't help but notice that the railroad track in Glenwood
Canyon probably makes that train trip extremely scenic.  When I got to
Glenwood I stopped at the Amtrak station--which is fairly well
preserved (wish they'd restored the original doors, though)--and
picked up a schedule, which shows trains passing through Glenwood
between Salt Lake City and Denver.

I would like to ride that route, and thought that a good way to do it
would be to fly to SLC and take the train east to Granby, CO.
Departure from SLC is 5:15 AM, arrival at Granby is 4:35 PM, making
the trip in daylight.

When I was at the Glenwood station, however, the train from SLC was
2.5 hours late, due to arrive at 3:45 PM.  That would put the last
part of the trip toward Granby after dark....  Can anyone tell me if
that delay is typical?  Can anyone give me some more detail about this
route?
Thanks.

--Rob



-- 
Rob Lingelbach KB6CUN | 2660 Hollyridge Dr LA CA 90068 213 464 6266 (voice) 
rob@xyzoom.info.com   | "I care not much for a man's religion whose dog or 
robl@netcom.com       |  cat are not the better for it."  --Abraham Lincoln
From: bob@1776.COM (Robert Coe)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Deaths on Railroad Property
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 92 08:11:59 EST
Distribution: na
Organization: 1776 Enterprises, Sudbury MA

drs@stsci.edu (David Soderblom) writes:
> A recent thread in this newsgroup has been about an incident in which some
> young tresspassers were killed while crossing a trestle.  Many of the re-
> sponses expressed the feeling that those deaths were the proper consequence
> of the foolishness of the tresspassers. "They got what they deserved."
> 
> I do not think that that callousness represents the true feelings of most
> of this newsgroup's readers.  ...

I think you're missing the point.  Any accident in which someone is killed is
a tragedy, whether or not the victim "got what he deserved".  If anything,
those whom the victim leaves behind may feel even worse, knowing that the
accident was preventable.

But the point of the thread spawned by the incident on the trestle is that
the railroad should not be held legally responsible for accidents that hap-
pen to people who have been duly warned not to take the risk.  Indeed, the
system of strict and unquestionable liability towards which the U.S. has
been moving can actually work *against* public safety.  One of the posted
articles mentioned a case in which a railroad didn't want to fence a danger-
ous location, lest the courts interpret the action as an admission that all
unfenced ROW is ipso facto dangerous.

Please understand this point clearly:  The belief that people ultimately have
to assume responsibility for the consequences of their foolish acts does NOT
imply a lack of compassion for the victim or his family.

   ___            _                                           -  Bob
   /__) _   /    / ) _   _
(_/__) (_)_(_)  (___(_)_(/_______________________________________ bob@1776.COM
Robert K. Coe ** 14 Churchill St, Sudbury, Massachusetts 01776 ** 508-443-3265
From: rambler@pnet51.orb.mn.org (Dan Meyer)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: CGW (was the Tunnel thread)
Date: 30 Dec 92 00:25:00 GMT
Organization: People-Net [pnet51], Minneapolis, MN.

zephyr@cory.Berkeley.EDU (COIFMAN) writes:
>
> If you look at the numbers and owners initials on rail cars, you can
>still spot a number of CGW and even a few M&StL cars.  As these
>railroads were absorbed into C&NW, there were some numbering conflicts.
>So insted of going through the pain of renumbering all of the
>conflicting cars, as they were repainted, they got the C&NW logo, but
>kept their old number and former rail road's initials.
>
>
>


It was my understanding that the CGW & M&StL and other reporting marks 
existed was beacause the railroads still existed as a paper railroad 
or something. 

Any thoughts?

-- Dan Meyer

Remember: " Buffalo never Oink " Seen on a South Dakota travel brocure.
Advertisment: Try the Railway Post Office , a railfan BBS ! (612) 377-2197.
UUCP: {crash tcnet}!orbit!pnet51!rambler
INET: rambler@pnet51.orb.mn.org
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: ggg9y@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Garth G. Groff)
Subject: Re: Deaths on Railroad Property
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 17:28:56 GMT


Dave's post really makes a good point.  We should show
compassion for people who are killed and injured by 
trains, no matter how foolish their actions, and for
their relatives as well.  I think much of the indignation
was sparked by the fact that the mother of the boys
is suing the railroad for millions, and will probably
win, despite the fact that the young men were on 
private (and posted) property.  Let's not forget her
misery, even if we disagree with her lawsuit.

This reminds me of a phrase I heard frequently when I
was in the Coast Guard:  "Dumb Civilians".  It is easy
for any of us who are part of a special group, be it
professional lifesavers, railroaders, or trainfans, to
get into an us vs them mentality.  This sort of attitude
blocks rational thinking and can lead to all sorts of
prejudices and misunderstandings.  We are all foolish
or ignorant in our own ways; its part of the human 
condition.

Best wishes to everyone for a happy new year.  Bholo
Hare Krishna.

~S~
--
Garth (Haridas) Groff
"Not yet famous author"
ggg9y@poe.acc.virginia.EDU         Chant "Govinda Bohlo Hare"
From: CZ94@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA (CZ94)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: RE: Train station car rentals and long-term parking?
Date: 21 Dec 92 15:15:13 GMT
Organization: McGill University

In article <1992Dec21.4231.12834@dosgate> nigel.allen@canrem.com (nigel allen) writes:
>
>There is a car rental booth outside Union Station in Toronto (Tilden
>Rent-a-car, the Canadian affiliate of National Car Rental). I think
>there is a Hertz rental counter (or at least a courtesy phone -- that
>is, a yellow phone without a dial that is connected to a Hertz office
>when you pick it up) at Central Station in Montreal.

There's a Budget rental counter at Central Station in Montreal.
>
>I seem to remember advertising from a car rental company on VIA Rail
>ticket jackets, but I forget which company was advertising.  I haven't
>seen that advertising lately, now that VIA has switched to thicker
>tickets that don't need an airline-style ticket jacket.

I think it was Budget.  Right now (Dec. 1 - Feb. 28), Budget and VIA
are running a promotion offering special prices for Budget cars to
VIA passengers.  This includes pick-up and delivery to the stations
in Quebec City, Sainte-Foy, Montreal, Dorval, Ottawa, and Toronto.

Last summer, Hertz was offering special rates to holders of a
Canrailpass.

A few years ago (ca. 1988), Tilden has an advertisement in the VIA
timetable, which said "When you reserve with VIA, ask them to
have a Tilden car waiting for you at your destination."  55 cities
and towns were listed as having this service.
>
>Even if there isn't enough potential business to justify a full-time
>rental booth at a given railway station, perhaps a car rental company
>might find it worthwhile to provide a courtesy phone and free delivery
>of cars to the station.
>
I visited Gaspe in summer 1991.  This is a small town with only
3 trains/week.  One of the local car dealerships also functions
as a Thrifty rent-a-car agency.  They were happy to drive us to the
train station after we dropped off our rental car.  I imagine
they would have also picked us up there if we'd made arrangements
in advance.

Tom Box
CZ94@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA
From: CJOHNSON@MAINE.MAINE.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: 1993 Amtrak Calendar
Date: 21 Dec 92 19:05:06 GMT
Organization: University of Maine System

I just recived my new 93 Amtrak Calendar, Depicts the new Amtrak Centennial
station at Olympia/Lacy Washington. Send $5.00 to Amtrak Calendar
P.O. Box 7717, Itasca, IL 60143
From: pauls@intermec.com (Paul Shoeman x2896)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Milwaukee Road Line Northwest
Date: 21 Dec 92 19:09:50 GMT
Reply-To: pauls@intermec.com (Paul Shoeman x2896)
Organization: Intermec Corporation, Everett WA

>I never rode the line, but remember seeing it in the vicinity of Drummond MT
>where it was within sight of the NP for several miles, and in Butte.  I believe
>that Deer Lodge was the location of the main shops facility for the electric
>operation.  Aberdeen, Mobridge, Marmarth, Miles City, Harlowton, Three Forks,
>Deer Lodge, Avery and Othello appear to have been the Division points, but
>some of that is "educated guess work" on my part.  The map shows a second route
>around Spokane from Plummer Junction ID to Marengo WA, so that may have been
>the through freight route, and the line through Spokane may have been just for
>passengers, or on somebody else's railroad as you suggest.  Without checking a
>map, I'd guess GN also, but maybe NP.  The MILW, however, used "Union Station"
>in Spokane, which was the UP station, not GN or NP.  I think the UP line out of
>Spokane goes through Marengo, so they might have used that one west of town -
>I'd have to check a map to be sure.  There's a branch from Cedar Falls WA to
>Everett that is listed as freight service only, and a disconnected branch from
>Bellingham to Glacier, freight service only.  From Tacoma, on the map the line
>continues south then west to Hoquiam on the Coast, with several branches
>including down to Longview and Portland.  I'm sure the latter was trackage
>rights on someone else's railroad (probably the joint NP-GN-UP line), but
>Hoquiam was purely MILW trackage.  None of these lines had passenger service,
>though a schedule is shown for a "freight" train between Chehalis and Raymond.
> 

This is my first posting to the net so I hope I get this halfways right.
I wanted to point out that there was also a branch line of the Milwaukee
Road in Washington state that ran from Port Angeles (my home town) to
Port Townsend where the rail cars were barged to Seattle.  The line was
about 40 miles in length and was freight only (it would've been a pretty
line for passenger service).  When Milwaukee went into bankruptcy, a
company called Seattle and North Coast Railroad took over the line and
kept it running for several years.  They went under in the mid '80's and
the line was removed for good a few years ago.  The mills in Port
Angeles that used the line now truck their shipments off the Olympic
Peninsula (where Port Angeles and Port Townsend are located).  Portions
of the old line in Port Angeles have been converted to a bike/walking
trail.  Hopefully other portions will be converted in the near future.

Again, I hope I got all this posting to the net stuff right :-).

Paul Shoeman     pauls@intermec.com
Software Engineer
Intermec Corp.
Everett, WA
From: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Oil Bearings (was Re: Grand Canyon Railway)
Date: 22 Dec 92 21:36:15 GMT
Reply-To: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins)
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA

In article <BwV6VB2w165w@railnet.nshore.ORG> rad@railnet.nshore.ORG (Rick DeMattia) writes:
> ajw@squid.mel.dit.CSIRO.AU (Andrew Waugh) writes:
> 
> > I would not be surprised if railroads limit (or even prohibit) the
> > use of equipment equipped with oil bearings...
> 
> To the best of my knowledge non-roller bearing axles are banned
> from interchange service by all United States railroads.  Ten
> years ago when I was working more closely with rolling stock the
> ban had been in effect for some time.

There are also roller bearing kits that fit in the old friction
journal boxes, perhaps with some box/axle modification.  These
are usually seen as boxes with the lids removed although to
maintain appearance, you could probably keep the lids on...

I guess these became popular around the time when the last journal
bearings were going out of service, previously you saw mostly new
build roller bearing trucks or standard journals.

-- 
George Robbins - now working for,     work:   to be avoided at all costs...
but no way officially representing:   uucp:   {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!grr
Commodore, Engineering Department     domain: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com
From: jbvb@vax.ftp.com (James B. VanBokkelen)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: High Speed Rail Questions
Keywords: thermite rail welding
Date: 30 Dec 92 22:32:24 GMT
Reply-To: jbvb@ftp.com
Distribution: na
Organization: FTP Software, Inc., Wakefield, MA
Nntp-Software: PC/TCP NNTP

In article <9o1LwB5w165w@1776.COM> bob@1776.COM (Robert Coe) writes:

    > I believe the process involves using scrap aluminium (shredded pieces
    > provide more surface area), some compound containing iron and a catalyst
    > compound, ...
    
    Thermite is what was supposedly used in that famous old MIT fraternity
    prank wherein a streetcar was welded to its rails at the stop in front
    of 77 Mass Ave (and not in Kendall Square subway station, as some
    revisionists have suggested)...

I've heard both the story of the streetcar welding, and the story of
the greasing of the Cambridge-Dorchester subway's rails in Kendall
Sq. many times, but never accompanied by any hard evidence.  The streetcar
welding would have had to be no later than mid-40s, given the location.

At any rate, classic Thermite is powdered iron oxide and aluminum
filings (dust is better).  You do need a fairly hot igniter to get it
going, but I've seen a torch used.  It is still fairly widely used
for field welds, but I think most welding plant welds are made
electrically (butt welding as opposed to arc welding).  I'm not sure
what length rail you can buy new, but I know a lot of RRs are still
pulling up old jointed rail, clipping the ends and welding long strings.

James B. VanBokkelen		2 High St., North Andover, MA  01845
FTP Software Inc.		voice: (508) 685-4000  fax: (508) 794-4488
From: pierson@empror.enet.dec.com (dave pierson)
Subject: Re: High Speed Rail Questions
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Distribution: na
Date: 31 DEC 92 08:11:25    

In article <38217@cbmvax.commodore.com>, grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George
Robbins) writes...
>In article <921230173224@cream.ftp.com> jbvb@ftp.com writes:
>> In article <9o1LwB5w165w@1776.COM> bob@1776.COM (Robert Coe) writes:
>> 
>>     > I believe the process involves using scrap aluminium (shredded pieces
>>     > provide more surface area), some compound containing iron and a catalyst
>>     > compound, ...

>I believe that another way is to use a "primer", where something like
>magnesium powder and an oxidizer is sprinked on top of the thermite,
>allowing one to use a pistol-like spark lighter to get things started.
>This may have been what the previous poster was thinking of as a
>catalyst, since the actually thermite reaction needs no help!

>I've seen rails on a trolley line welded this way and it's pretty
>impressive, even in daylight.  The rail ends up red/yellow hot a
>good ways back from the joint.  The molds is knocked off with the
>metal still hot and some rough grinding/chipping done immediately,
>with the final profiling done later.

	One starter, without references handy, is Potassium Permanganate.
	I have seen pre batched kits employed, with "ceramic" one shot molds,
	thermite mix and starter.  Starter is optional, since a track gang
	usually has an acetylene torch handy.

	"Thermite" can be surprisingly sophisticated, with the alloy of the
	resulting molten "iron" nicely controlled by the oxides used in the
	bulk of the charge.  The reaction yields molten "iron", which flows
	into place, with sufficient heat to get the adjacent ends up to
	melting point.

	By using copper and other oxides, one can get brones, etc, for other
	applications.

thanks
dave pierson			|the facts, as accurately as i can manage,
Digital Equipment Corporation	|the opinions, my own.
40 Old Bolton Rd		|I am the NRA.
Stow, Mass, USA	
01775				pierson@msd26.enet.dec.com
"He has read everything, and, to his credit, written nothing."  A J Raffles
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: billg@bony1.bony.com (Bill Gripp)
Subject: Re: Grade crossings, etc. (was Re: Deaths on Railroad Prop...)
Organization: LA&W RR
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 92 16:00:53 GMT

In article <2934845282.2.p00258@psilink.com> "A.J. Janschewitz" <p00258@psilink.com> writes:

>The number of people who fail to stop for flashers and posted crossings 
>is amazing. For about three years, I was a part-time police officer in 
>one of the towns through which the train travelled, and knowing the 
>schedule, I would often meet the train at one of the grade crossings 
>while on patrol.
>
>At roughly one out of ten of these meets, I would also end up pursuing 
>and stopping a vehicle that had run directly in front of the train, 
>ignoring the stop sign, and the obvious noise of the bell, whistle, and 
>strain for the slight grade coming from the approaching engine.
>
>The driver's most common excuse was that it was just a tourist train, so they 
>didn't think they *really* had to stop. (?!)

Did you leave them with a "souvineer" of their experience?  =B^)

A summons is a much better souvineer of playing chicken with a train
than a lost limb.

Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: ehr@ecsvax.uncecs.edu (Ernest H. Robl)
Subject: Re: Novice Request for Info
Summary: books books European pointers
Organization: UNC Educational Computing Service
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 20:23:17 GMT

In article <1ht3fhINNlef@morrow.stanford.edu>, AR.CHM@forsythe.stanford.edu (Chris Martin) writes:
> Railfans,
> 
>      Being a part-time history buff and dabbler in HO, I was hoping
> someone out there might have a source book for trains running in
> Europe, 1930-1950.  The introduction/use of electric and diesel
> locomotives is of particular interest, as is the Reichsbahn.  Mail
> me if anything springs to mind (or point me to a FAQ sheet /
> newsletter).  Thanks for reading!


As other posters have already pointed out, some of the better 
material will be in other languages, such as German.  With the
Austrian railways being my own area of special interest, I have
a number of German-language books on the subject--but I doubt you
would find any of these in the U.S., even in larger libraries.

One book you should be able to find in a large library--and if they
don't have it, they should be able to get it for you through
interlibrary loan--is Haut, F.J.G.  The pictorial History of 
Electric Locomotives.  I have a 1969 U.S. edition (A.S. Barnes,
publisher) of the book originally published in England by Allen and
Unwin.  (Found it in nearly-new condition at a second-hand sale 
for $4.00 a few years ago!)

It covers the development of electric locomotives (with emphasis
on Europe) in phases:
-- 1880 to 1910
-- 1910 to 1935
-- After 1935

The book contains 260 illustrations and diagrams, some explaining
technical features I haven't seen presented anywhere else.


Since you are interested in HO, I hope you've checked out the
European prototype material in the Walther's catalog.  I also 
have the complete Roco catalog, which contains lots of neat older
European prototypes.

(I don't have a layout at present, but am collecting material for
the time that I do have the space.  It will probably be set in the
current era -- 1980s- -- but with some older rolling stock, such as
a class 52 for fantrips.  Most of my current rolling stock is from
either Kleinbahn or Klein Modellbahn, two Austrian manufacturers
who concentrate on Austrian prototype.)


Hope this helps. -- Ernest

-- 
"My other computers are Nikon N8008s and an SB25." -- Ernest H. Robl
Ernest H. Robl (ehr@ecsvax)  Durham, NC, USA   +1  919   286-3845
                                         FAX:  +1  919   286-1696
This .signature meets plate C specifications (for rec.railroad fans)
From: eravin@panix.com (Ed Ravin)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Report on exhibition of prototype NYC Subway trains
Keywords: subway, NYC
Date: 29 Dec 92 22:18:31 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Not Just Another Pretty Face

In article <Bzz6xB.GqE@cmcl2.nyu.edu> mckenney@cims.nyu.edu (Alan McKenney) writes:
>>6) Door motors are now electronically controlled and use worm drive as
>>opposed to the older lever style actuators.  It is now impossible to
>>force a door open once it is closed.
>
>    This sounds like a technical fix to a non-technical problem.
>    The problem is not people pulling doors open (I've never seen
>    that)

You may not have seen it, but it happens all the time -- kids love to
push open the doors and watch the tunnel wall rush by.  Either (or both)
doors can be opened 3", to create up to a 6" gap to peer through.  After
3" an interlock is supposed to kick in the emergency brake.

> but people holding the doors, either voluntarily (e.g.,
>    so the conductor will open them again) or involuntarily (bags,
>    body parts, etc., stuck in the door.)

I imagine the new doors will have much better sensors and be able to detect
that the doors are not fully closed -- unfortunately, a handbag strap is
less than 1/8" wide and I wonder if they can build the machines to that
close a tolerance.  If anything, dragging injuries should go down since
wrists, arms, strollers, etc. should be more easily detected when caught
in the doors.
-- 
Ed Ravin            | I like to think (it has to be!) of a cybernetic ecology
eravin@panix.com    | where we are free of our labors and joined back to nature
philabs!trintex!elr | returned to our mammal brothers and sisters,
+1 914 993 4737     | and all watched over by machines of loving grace
From: b_nbca@icarus.lbl.gov (Bruce Nordman)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Deaths on Railroad Property: common sense or am I an Idiot?
Date: 23 Dec 1992 20:38:31 GMT
Organization: lbl
Distribution: world
Reply-To: b_nbca@icarus.lbl.gov (Bruce Nordman)
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.12.154

(Not contradicting anything previously said:)

I think the sense that "these people must be dumb" to climb on
the tracks and get killed derives from the fact that the behavior
people engage in on rail_roads_ is not what they would probably
do on any other road.  That is, if they treated railroads like
car roads (like freeways, given the speeds involved), they
wouldn't be in the situations that got them killed.
(This just to explain, not justify or excuse anything).

I think a lot of people have seen trains moving slowly and so
expect that all trains move slowly.  I have the same problem
on my bicycle a lot, where people assume that since some bikes
move slowly, they all do.

Cheers,

Bruce Nordman
B_Nordman@lbl.gov