HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: anonasar@khijol.UUCP
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: monthly APS announcement
Date: 21 Aug 92 05:37:12 GMT

Announcing a new anonymous a.s.a.r. posting service!

This service, while not providing all of the services that the APS at
twwells.com does, provides an alternate anonymous posting service to
posters who wish to remain anonymous.

There are two main differences between this service and the APS at
twwells.com:

	1.	Email send to khijol!anonasar@saturn.upl.com is
		stripped of headers and .sig stuff, then forwarded
		to alt-sexual-abuse-recovery@ucbvax.berkeley.edu.
		Mail is never posted directly to the net.

	2.	Since all email is going through a common mailbox
		on khijol, it is impossible for anonymous posters
		to receive email through this service.  This is
		considered an additional safety feature.

This message is being posted automatically through the APS.  The software
that runs this service (a single C source code file) will be posted to
alt.sources and comp.sources.unix.  If you would like a free copy of the
current source code, send an email message containing a valid "Reply-To:"
header to khijol!anoncode@saturn.upl.com.  If you can't figure out how to
do this, send me (erc@apple.com) email, and I'll send the code to you.

The reason I'm distributing the code this way is (1) so I can devote more
time to writing software for Linux (a free UNIX close; subscribe to
comp.os.linux if interested), (2) people can inspect the code and comment on
any security features, misfeatures, and bugs, and (3) so that others may
also easily set up their own APS services.  The code is commented, and
setup instructions are at the top of the code.  This allows others to
have alternate resources for posting anonymously.

This message will automatically be posted on the first of each month to
a.s.a.r.

--
To post to a.s.a.r. anonymously, send mail to khijol!anonasar@saturn.upl.com
To make sure you can reach the server, send mail to khijol!ping@saturn.upl.com
   with a valid "Reply-To:" header.
To reach the admin for this service, send mail to erc@apple.com

Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: bear@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Bear Giles)
Subject: Re: Possibly Relevent Insight, and Comments on Pat Buchanan's Speech
Organization: National Oceanic & Atmospheric Adminstration / Boulder Labs
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 02:05:27 GMT

In article <380@asylum.UUCP> sandro@asylum.UUCP (Sandro Wallach) writes:
>Laurie Mann writes:
>
>Indeed.  I read one columnist's essay (in Monday's SF Chronicle) which
>argued that the Republican party was, in many ways, becoming a party
>which officially supports child abuse.  I hope this notion is more
>fully aired, because it seems important.  (I am NOT accusing
>republicans of supporting child abuse, just saying that I read a
>column which suggested some republican policies tend to furthur
>abusive situations.)

Since I've gotten some flack on my earlier article (not the one posted
above) I want to clarify my earlier comment and amplify the one above:

Individual Republicans abhor child abuse just as much as individual
Democrats.  The Republican Party platform and the speeches in support
of that platform _and_ the speeches condemning the Democrats (esp.
Hillary Clinton) will produce a society compelled to tolerate child
abuse because the state will surrender all interest in the child's
welfare to the parents.

Basically the Far Right wing of the Republican Party (which _does_
support corporal punishment ("spare the rod, spoil the child") and
in aggregate is pro-life and pro-capital punishment) has gone ape-shit
over "Family Values."

One aspect of that is their efforts to restrict Social Services from
protecting children.  To quote Mike Royko (_Boulder Camera_, 14 August):

 "... it is the policy of social agencies in most states that
 their top priority is keeping families together.

 "Mom has a dope-sniffing boyfriend who can't stand crying infants?
 The boyfriend punches the child?  Or shoves it into a tub of scalding
 hot water?  Mom sits there glassy-eyed and does nothing?  The
 boyfriend also likes to have sex with another little daughter?  Mom
 snores through it?

 "This is a true story.  And what was the social agency's solution,
 approved by a judge?  Why, just teach Mom that it is her responsibility
 to prevent her boyfriend from trying to murder and/or rape her kids.
 Then give the kids back to her"

Of course, this would have never happened if Mom was married.  Later,

 "... the Republican chairman hasn't said anything except smart-aleck
 remarks about Hillary Clinton...

 "Maybe he thinks that a family life in which an infant winds up with
 about 20 fractures (another case I wrote about) is better than no
 family life at all."

(The first paragraph was lightly reedited to remove several irrelevant
asides).

Meanwhile, a group in Colorado (Republican, I have no doubt) and groups
in other states wish to strip some families of the right to live and work
where they choose.  Oh, sorry.  Gay and lesbians couples in a longterm
monogomous relationship with a lifetime commitment are _not_ a family,
they're people pursuing a "hedonistic lifestyle."

(Strange, isn't it, how the only homosexuals who choose to be gay are
Republicans)....


Bear Giles
bear@fsl.noaa.gov
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: anon-1012@twwells.com (All Me of Us)
Subject: Re: Therapist and Rejection!!!!
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com
X-Email-Accepted: yes
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 21:13:57 GMT

Jay writes:
>I kinda had a bad morning this morning (8-13-92).  I saw my counselor
>and she felt that we needed to take a break, but left it up to me
>as to whether I want to or not.  I told her what *I* thought we needed
>a break from was the joint sessions because I've seen her siding with
>1 of us depending on the issues discussed.  She was rather pissed when
>I brought the idea up that she was trying to cover too much ground
>at once!

I get really angry when I hear about therapists who try to push their
own agendas on clients.  This has happened to me more often than I care
to remember.  Good for you for telling her what you wanted.  I'm sorry
she was so into her own stuff that she couldn't hear you and respect
that this is *your* process, not anyone else's.

> This is all happening with ONLY 12 days *Grits Teeth* till my mom get's
>here

Good luck preparing for the visit.  Remember, the best thing you
can do for everyone is take care of yourself.

>I also told her that the other "Scary thing" is Art's sex change thoughts!
>Well she looked at me and said "Well you don't have enough money to do it right
>now and it will be a while before you do have the money" then she changed the
>subject!  She made it VERY clear that she did NOT want to discuss the issue of
>Art thinking about a sex change!  She believes and has told Art that he is only
>investigating!

It seems to me that this counselor is so uncomfortable with this issue
that she can't detach enough to remain professional.  I think your idea
of trying to find a different counselor is an excellent one.  I hope you
find someone who lets you be who you are and explore the issues you want
to look at.

> Anyways I could REALLY use the support, that this group has shown in the
>past!
>
>Thanks and *HUGS* to all who need and want them

Hugs back to you; let us know what happens.  And hugs to Art and Aaron,
too, if they want them.


All Me of Us




--
To use this service, send EMAIL to:
anon-ping@twwells.com  -- test path/get anonymous id
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From: bear@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Bear Giles)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: what gives ...????
Date: 21 Aug 92 04:27:53 GMT
Organization: National Oceanic & Atmospheric Adminstration / Boulder Labs

In article <1992Aug20.212946.22474@unislc.uucp> erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp) writes:
>Lavender (anon-1186@twwells.com) wrote:
>: And I am supposed to feel confident in using the anon posting service?
>
>This has been my point all along.  It's like hiring the fox to watch the
>henhouse, then expecting the hens to ask the fox for advice on what the
>hens should do for additional security. :(

I didn't want to mention this earlier, when passions were running 
completely out of control, but...

There have been a few cases of the fox opening a henhouse and waiting
for the chickens to arrive.  Boston, last year, is one case that
made national news.  You can still find 'enlightened' police officers
telling parents to keep modems away from their children lest they
run into the 'wrong' sysop.

Due to the sensitive nature of the anon site's position s/he, like
Caesar's wife, must be absolutely above reproach.  Even if that means
s/he must turn hir back on people asking for help.  To do otherwise
risks ASAR being labeled a henhouse run by the foxes.

I don't know if we have a fox in the henhouse.  I do know we need
to find another henhouse, regardless.  This is something that can turn
_very_ ugly, _very_ fast.  Imagine this discussion as part of the
presidential debate, for instance.... (The NSFNet backbone does
get Federal funds).


Bear Giles
bear@fsl.noaa.gov

P.S.  I would volunteer, but I have no standing at boulder.colorado.edu
(I'm not an student in a degree program) and the "facilities division" at
work won't even run the finger-server on our gateway due to the 'load.'
From: holzman@fnalno.fnal.gov (Daniel B. Holzman)
Subject: response to Sim
Organization: Fermi National Accelerator Lab
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 18:58:14 GMT
X-Posted-From: fnalno.fnal.gov
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <17AUG92.18301786@enh.nist.gov>, aberson@enh.nist.gov writes:
> Relkie's "I won't bother you anymore" was nothing more than a manipulative
> whine.  

I can see where you might think so, Sim, but I have the perspective of someone
who speaks to her on the phone and talks to her about how posts like Sally's
make her feel.  The simple fact is that you are wrong.

> If she was truly interested in understanding what has been said,
> or feels that these statements were unfair, she could either engage in
> a conversation about why people think this of her or to defend herself.

Look up the words "fear" and "insecure", Sim.  She's living in a situation
where everyone in her immediate vicinity believes that she seduced Pris and
tells her she's a liar.  When she gets judged, not questioned, not discussed
with, but ACCUSED of being manipulative here, it ties in with what she's living
with.  

> Saying that just because she does not get her way she will leave simply 
> *is* manipulative.  She did exactly what she did before.  She wants every
> one to now chime in that we all want her to stay.  It's just a way to get
> attention and possibly some short-term self-esteem.  Real self-esteem
> doesn't come that way.

With tyhe exception of the last statement in your paragraph, you couldn't be
more wrong.

> Relkie, you are still young.  Maybe too young to actually understand this.
> I probably was too young to understand this two years ago.  I wish you
> well.

Or more condescending.

Why do people here think that they can come across as supportive by adding a
bullshit obligatory well-wishing to the end of a flame?
 
Daniel B. Holzman                    | Eight Words the Witch's Rede Fufill:
HOLZMAN@FNAL.BITNET                  | An It Harm None, Do What You Will
HOLZMAN@FNALC.FNAL.GOV.INTERNET      |
                                     | All Acts of Love and Pleasure are
Love doesn't subtract,               | Her Rituals
   it multiplies    - Heinlein       |
TEAM STAR Charter Member             | Speak the Word.
Disclaimer:  Fermilab's far too large to have an opinion, let alone mine.
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: scg@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Scott Goehring)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery,talk.rape
Subject: Re: The Anonymous Service: This Waiter Has A Fake Accent
Date: 21 Aug 92 16:31:16 GMT
	<1992Aug20.212320.21504@unislc.uucp>
Reply-To: scg@mentor.cc.purdue.edu
Followup-To: talk.rape
Organization: Society for the Prevention of National Mudding Associations

erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp) writes:

>The last thing to be looked at is the personal history of the victim.

Not everywhere, thankfully.  Indiana, at least, has shield laws that
specifically make the sexual history of the victim inadmissible as
evidence in a trial for sexual crimes.  I don't know how many other
states have adopted statutes like this, but I personally think they're
a good idea.

>Yes, I know, it's none of anyone else's business who you've slept
>with, but a smart lawyer will tear your reputation to *shreds* if
>you're anything but pure-as-the-driven-snow.  Do you have a sexual
>history?  Are you a virgin?  Do you have a reputation for "sleeping
>around"?  Have you ever been hospitalized for a mental illness?  Are
>you on any prescription medication?  Had you been drinking?

The latter two questions will, if true, make a conviction MORE likely,
under Indiana law.  Intoxication of the victim is considered to
prevent her from being able to grant informed consent, making it much
more likely that sexual intercourse would be legally considered rape.
There are trial precedents (quoted in the annotated Indiana Code,
Title 35; I could theoretically go look it up) to back this up.

Followups to talk.rape; this is drifting from asar's main intent.
--
... most women professionals are likely to marry other women professionals.
	-- Phillip M. Hallam-Baker (hallam@zeus02.desy.de),
	   in talk.politics.misc & alt.activism
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: Z57N000 <Z57N@UNB.CA>
Subject: Re: Relkie
Organization: The University of New Brunswick
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 16:58:56 GMT

Uhoh, bad wording. Parts of the MATURITY AND WISDOM IMAGE are true,
parts are not. Not bragging, just being factual. I'd give it a million
or so parts on the image side to one on the truth side.

And I don't lie when something like this is happening.

RELKIE

Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: sasnla@shadow.unx.sas.com (Nancy Agnew)
Subject: Re: one last thought
Originator: sasnla@shadow.unx.sas.com
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 17:07:58 GMT
Organization: SAS Institute Inc.


In article <BsuxDn.54@twwells.com>, anon-1005@twwells.com (Bones) writes:
>
>I also lose the ability to make good treatment decisions - I can't
>make simple decisions so it stands to reason that I wouldn't be able
>to make the tougher ones.  

This is one of the things that kept me from thinking that I could
ever go to therapy...if I needed therapy because I lost the ability
to think, how would I know I was in a good situation?  What if they
told me I was crazy?  I'd have to believe them, right.

I was fortunate enough to have asked my physician for recommendations.
She gave me several, and that took some of the guesswork out for me.

>I have discussed the need for my drs to hear me if I tell them I'm in
>another fog and the internist and new psychiatrist have both said they
>would pay immediate attention.  Two of my family members are also
>going to intercede if necessary.

These are the kinds of health care folks we need, I think.  The ones
who listen when you say what you want or need, and who really do keep
their patients/clients best interests in mind.

And the following was so well stated I wanted to include it again.
Thanks, Bones.

>... I want to make 2 points in writing
>tonight.
> 1) Use caution in therapy and try to have an advocate that will give
>    input if it appears necessary.
>
> 2) I also want to put in a good word for anti-depressants when they
>    are indicated.  The work of healing from abuse can be horrendous.
>    The medications don't take away the reality or the pain.  What
>    they can do is provide a stable emotional base from which you can
>    do your healing.  They aren't a cure all or a necessity for every-
>    one but don't be afraid of giving them a chance if you are stuck
>    in a down place.

best to all
-- 
Nancy Agnew                         sasnla@unx.sas.com
SAS Institute Inc,  SAS Campus Dr,  Cary NC 27513-2414
My company's opinions are not likely mine, and vice versa.
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: holzman@fnalno.fnal.gov
Subject: Re: The Anonymous Service: This Waiter Has A Fake Accent
Organization: Fermi National Accelerator Lab
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 22:41:58 GMT
X-Posted-From: fnalno.fnal.gov
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1992Aug17.075130.26171@qiclab.scn.rain.com>, 
sallyb@qiclab.scn.rain.com (Sally Bowley) writes:
>>Anything I could say would be taken as manipulative.
>>
>>I'm sorry I caused all this fuss.
>>
>>I won't bother you any more.
> 
> this is *exactly* what i mean by you being manipulative. you suddenly
> reappear in the group with some very heavy things to say, then when
> somebody expresses a concern that they are uncomfortable with the
> manner in which you are presenting your information, you adopt the
> "i'm sorry. i was just..., i was only..., i'll go away" stance. how

Sally, you're really something.  First you lay a guilt trip on her for
appearing manipulative, then when she feels guilty and communicates this, you
do it again.  Just fucking amazing.  And pretty manipulative of you.  So tell 
me, how could Relkie respond that *wouldn;t* make you feel manipulated?

And you *didn't* "express concern" that you were "uncomfortable with the way
[Relkie presernted her] information", you accused her of being manipulative.

> and i also want to state that i too, feel bad at what you have
> experienced in the last few months. my decision to comment on your
> posts, has no reflection on what happened to you, i'm merely concerend
> with the way you're going about it. 

You failed to make this distinction clear in your post.

Dan
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: anon-1160@twwells.com (poohbear)
Subject: please stop
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com
X-Email-Accepted: yes
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 09:57:37 GMT


I didn't even want to write this.  I am so confused about this relkie thing
and the anon stuff.  I just wanted to say it has gotten too scary for me here
and I wish everyone would work to get the atmosphere that was here 3-4 weeks
ago back, becasue that was a very secure one and was the reason I ever posted
in the first place.

And for my small triumph:  I have lived through the weekend.  Well, it is
10:30 Sun night and i will go to sleep soon, so it isn't quite over but I think
the danger is past.  Thank God it was cloudy here during the full moon,
even though that doesn't change it it makes it less potent for me.  I lived
I lived and I didn't go back in the hospital.  Although I am afraid that I
would have if I had told anyone about my cutting...I went really deep this
time, and think I probAbly need stitches, but I do not wAnt to tell anyone
because they will come and take me away.

I will not get all upset in this post.  I am alive and not in a hospital
after a weekend, and a weekend with a full moon at that.  I couldn't
not cut myself, but i did not O.D.  and now I am alive and I even drew
1 happy picture!  Sorry I am starting to leave again, and gosh I have been
present this whole weekend!  anyway goodbye.  I wish I could hug but I 
cannot for now.



--
To use this service, send EMAIL to:
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From: tcederqu@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Trevor Cederquist)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Tactile Memories
Date: 13 Aug 92 02:01:17 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego

Can anyone cite any references which discuss tactile memories?


Trevor 
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: bu850@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Karla M. Alwan)
Subject: Soap Opera
Reply-To: bu850@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Karla M. Alwan)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 22:33:02 GMT



I haven't had a chance to read asar for a while.  I had some
net priveleges taken away from me.  :(

But I have come back to find asar turned into a soap 
opera, again.

I think we all need to take a look at something here.  It
appears to me (although I must admit that I have not managed
to read all the posts on the Relkie situation) that Relkie has
a really big need to be the center of attention here.  And by
being manipulative (I guess --- some have said that she is, I do
not know myself) she seems to maintain that level.  Well, I think
I identify with this.  It's kind of like addiction to crisis.
I always manage to keep some kind of crisis in my life just to
keep it exciting and keep the attention on me.  I think most
of us can identify with this... it is a common thing amoung
survivors, as I understand.

But Relkie, I know everyone here cares about you, and I know
most will feel guilty if you try hard enough to make them so --
maybe for good reason, maybe for not.  But you can't turn asar
into a soap opera for your beneift...sacraficing the health and peace
of the rest of us.  We are all important...  asar shouldn't
need to be centered around you to make you feel important.  But
if you threaten to go away everytime someone doesn't want you
the center of attention, then maybe that is a good idea.  I 
certainly don't object to you being here...  I think it would
be great for you to stick around and contribute.  But contribute
Relkie, don't dominate.  We care about you even if our attention
isn't on you all the time.  Please pipe down and join us...


-Karla
-- 
|alwan573@pirates.armstrong.edu   <=== USE THIS ONE!          
|Karla.Alwan@lambada.oit.unc.edu             |
|ng548@dsom_op.pnl.gov                       |
|bu850@cwns16.ins.cwru.edu                   |
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: Gavin.Flower@comp.vuw.ac.nz (Gavin Flower)
Subject: Re: Relkie
Organization: Dept. of Comp. Sci., Victoria Uni. of Wellington, New Zealand.
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 23:21:19 GMT

In article <20AUG92.14021076.0086@UNBVM1.CSD.UNB.CA> Z57N000 <Z57N@UNB.CA> writes:
>Uhoh, bad wording. Parts of the MATURITY AND WISDOM IMAGE are true,
>parts are not. Not bragging, just being factual. I'd give it a million
>or so parts on the image side to one on the truth side.
>
>And I don't lie when something like this is happening.
>
>RELKIE
>


Relkie, to me at least the gist of what happened is very clear.  Your
imagery is very brilliant, but the basic facts stand out, and Prisoner
has essentially verified them.

I feel that you have been hurt to a much greater degree than you have
ever stated, even to yourself.  I base this on what both you and
prisoner wrote.			


Gavin
-- 
Tomorrow's Society                              | flower_g@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
    Depends on                                   ----------------------------
Today's Children  - help us raise them properly! 
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