From: doug@eng.umd.edu (Douglas N. Cohen)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Query: Gung fu in New York City
Summary: -=-=-< a public response >-=-=-
Keywords: -=-=-< a challenge .... >-=-=-
Date: 9 Sep 92 23:40:00 GMT
Followup-To: okay... youcan follow up to me.....
Organization: hah!  we don't need no steekin' organization!

In article <1992Sep9.184839.280@panix.com> fnord@panix.com (Cliff Heller) writes:

>In <1992Sep09.150309.15693@eng.umd.edu> doug@eng.umd.edu (Douglas N. Cohen) writes:
>
>>	i, on the other hand, would suggest several other schools over the
>>fu-jow pai of wai hong.  
>>	1st, it is good kung fu, but i know of several styles *i* think are 
>>much much better, and the schools are much friendlier, classes smaller, kung
>>fu much more effective and the teacher is supurb.
>
>
>I wonder when the last time was that you saw a class at this school.  They
>are very small, and very friendly.  Sifu Wai Hong retired several years
>ago, and classes are now taught by Sifu Tak Wah Eng.
>

	i never said they were anything less.  i was not aware that wai hong had
retired from *teaching*.  nothing changes in my opinions.

>
>>	......and they are much against the politics and 'in-
>>fighting' that is so much a part of the new york kung fu scene, and is so
>>prevalent in the fu jow pai influences.  Sifu Ken Lo refuses to get involved
>>in it, and it makes a difference in the flavour of the school.  they are 
>>friendly and competent.  i highly recomend this school.
>
>You should realize that to be against such politics is to be a part of them
>as well.  I have encountered very little of such politics, and I am not
>interested in it.  I'm interested in learning Kung Fu, and that is what I
>am doing.  The politics are not part of the classes, although it seems
>like, in your school, they are.  
>

	here you are not ....ehr.... precise.  i'm sure your intentions are
of the highest caliber, and you are not interested in the political scene or
make-up of the kung fu community.  most likely, you are totally outside of them
due to your position as a student in the school.  exactly what is your position
in the *organization* and/or the school?  (please be as precise as you are able
in the circumstances....)
	i'm totally sure that politics are *NOT* part of your classes.

>>	i would reccomend Sifu Chan Tai-San's kung fu school.  it is a 
>>difficult and arduous style, with lots of Ch'i Kung, and long, difficult, but
>>highly effective forms.  you would have to learn cantonese just to understand 
>>him, but that is part of the training.  he taught and trained the army special
>>forces unit of canton, and was the former coach of the Fat Son County Canton
>>Wu Shu Team.  he is known for his incredible had Ch'i Kung and breaking
>>ability, and his internal abilities, as well as his external kung fu.  he is
>>also one who stands outside the political games, 
>
>Again, to "stand outside the political games" is a political stance in and
>of itself.  I know nothing about it, but Sifu Tak Wah Eng, doesn't concern
>himself with such matters, or if he does he does not teach/preach it to his
>students. 
>

	again, i must.... ehr.... agree to disagree.  you are *not* correct.
and, again, i'm *sure* that the politics are not taught/preached in your 
classes.  i'm equally confident that it doesn't touch you in most of the
obvious ways.

>
>>i do *NOT* recomend fu jow pai.  there is nothing wrong with their style.  it
>>is good, and moderately effective, but it is an empire and fraught with 
>>politics.  and there are so many better styles {*IN*MY*OPINION*!*}.  give
>>them a try.  at least look them over and check out the quality of the
>schools!
>
>I do not feel like I am part of an "empire"
>I feel like I am learning Kung Fu from a man of high character, and inner
>strength in a traditional way.  You are quite hypocritical to not recommend
>a style that you find nothing wrong with, when you are clearly doing so for
>political reasons.  You then claim that you are against such political
>infighting among schools.
>

	-=-=-< the challenge >-=-=-

	okay.  let me suggest you do the following, (if you dare...*tap* *tap*
*tap*  ...-hi marty...*smile* -):

	ask your teacher if you (and your school) can attend the 1993 NACMAF, 
ICMAC, or the USNCMAC competitions.
	then ask why not.
	then ask why they (fu jow pai) don't attend NACMAF, ICMAC, or USNCMAC
tournaments of the last 3+ years.  and how about the kuosho tournaments?  (i
wasn't there this year, so i don't know if they did or didn't)
	finally ask why they don't attend.
	then, post the replies.
	next:
	stop in on Sifu Ken Lo's School (Wu Mei) or any number of other
independent schools.  ask them the same questions..... *smiles*
	then report back..... *tap* *tap* *tap*..... *{touch bin/smiles/#2}*
i, for one, will be most interested in this post.....

>I recommended my school because I know it is a good school.  I know nothing
>of other schools and I never claimed to.  You are the one guilty of
>bringing politics into it.
>

	perhaps....
	then again, perhaps you cannot see a forrest for the trees.... or are
not sufficiently significant in the organization to know more than the least
of the details..... perhaps you don't know as much about your own organization
as you might like to think....
	then again, perhaps you do....  *smile*  perhaps you do...

>My advice to anyone, is go to a few schools, watch classes, and see if you
>want to learn from them.  
>

	always good advice.  however, you should also educate yourself about
the school, the teacher(s) and their lineage and standing in the martial arts
community.  if you are ignorant of martial arts, how do you know that what
you are (or will be) taught is the real thing?  when i started out, i got fooled
once...(and only once.)  perhaps you might not be fooled as easily.  i hope not.
i am not saying anything about *your* teacher, your school, or the quality of
your kung fu or instruction.  merely that the organization is not one *i* 
recommend.  it is strictly *your* (whom ever's) choice.
	another opinion, worth what you paid for it!
	and, as always, i am/at:

	     doug:  <doug@eng.umd.edu> : <doug@lpf.umd.edu>

	-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-< a ghost in the machine >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

	"presidential elections are planned distractions
	 to divert attention from the actions behind the scenes....
	 like a game of chess when the house is a mess, or
	 a petty money squabble when your marriage is in trouble,
	 or a football game when there's rioting in the street!

	 it's just another movie.....  another song and dance.....
	 another poor sucker who never had a chance!
	 it's just another captain goin' down with his ship.....
	 it's just another jerk, taking pride in his work!

				       greetings from timbuck three!