From: mlee@post.RoyalRoads.ca (Malcolm Lee)
Subject: Re: THE MIND OF THE BIBLE BELIEVER
Organization: Royal Roads Military College, Victoria, B.C.
Distribution: world,public
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 00:05:54 GMT


In response to what Simon writes here:

In article <1993Jan6.190706.20382@dcs.warwick.ac.uk>, simon@dcs.warwick.ac.uk (Simon Clippingdale) writes:
|> 
|> Or as others of us see it, you become a Christian following the development
|> of infection by a parasitic memetic virus which uses your mental and vocal
|> idea-broadcasting facilities to propagate 
|> 
|> Incorporation of a meme which expresses the imperative of evangelism ("you
|> must spread the Word to your fellow man") is one of the great success stories
|> of memetic viral evolution, because it vastly increases the reproductive
|> fitness of a religious virus over its non-evangelical counterparts and
|> enables it to spread like wildfire when the conditions are right, as they
|> sadly seem to be in particularly the United States and parts of Asia right
|> now for evangelical Christianity.
|> 
Christianity is not a disease.  Only those who willingly accept the Gospel are
Christians.  No one should be coerced or forced into it.  It is an act of free
choice.


|> > It is a gift of God that cannot be taken away.
|> 
|> Luckily for the future of our dismal little species, the infection most
|> certainly *can* be "taken away", as it was from me many years ago. A good
|> dose of logic and reason often seems to do the trick, provided the believing
|> brain is not already addled and damaged beyond repair and does not reject
|> the serum as a result. As an example of this latter and tragic condition,
|> to paraphrase the final impasse reached in any number of e-mail conversations
|> I have had (no points for guessing who is who):
|> 
|>         "We must eschew human reason and trust in the Word of God
|>          as set out in the Holy Bible!"
|> 
|>         "But how do you know that this *is* the Word of God other than
|>          by your own human reasoning? *You* must have made your own decision
|>          that the Bible *is* the Word of God at some point, mustn't you?"
|> 
|>         "We must eschew human reason and trust in the Word of God
|>          as set out in the Holy Bible!"
|> 
|> Don't let it get to this stage, or you'll need a major emotional trauma
|> to snap you out of it.
|> 
The gift of salvation cannot be taken away but it can be lost, unfortunately.
I can't say why you lost your faith in God.  If it was because of what someone
did to you or didn't do, why are you punishing God for it?  God would do nothing
that wasn't for your own good even if it involves pain.  There are times when we
ask God to hit us with a 2x4 when we do something wrong, and sometimes, He does.


|> Analyse what you are saying and what it actually *means* in gory, intricate
|> detail when you spout the flowery language of religion. Is it really tenable
|> that, for example, an omnipotent and omniscient being can be in a state of
|> want or hope for anything? Does omnipotence include the power to make oneself
|> non-omnipotent? Is the very concept in fact utter nonsense? What are the
|> consequences for want and hope if the supposed being is outside of time
|> itself? And so on. Reject appeals to mystery and powerful, emotive language
|> as satisfactory explanations.
|> 
I've never been omnipotent.  How would I know what God wants?  IMHO, I think
God created us because He was lonely and needed loving companions.  He did not
want robots or pets to provide Him with company.  He wanted loving companions
who would choose to be with Him.  Think about it.  Would you tolerate someone
who was an enemy in your house?


|> Reason isn't very nice, warm or cuddly by comparison, but it doesn't have
|> the same propensity to collapse on your head when the stress of holding
|> together a teetering tower of mutually dissonant concepts -- without
|> letting on to yourself that you're doing so -- finally becomes too much
|> for our [thankfully less than omnipotent] brains to bear.
|> 
|> Cheers
|> 
|> Simon
|> -- 
|> Out-of-context quotes from s.r.c #3:
|>     "There has been a good deal of discussion about how original sin is
|>      passed on.  Is it inherited from the parents or what?  As far as I
|>      know, no specific theory has ever gained wide acceptance."

Reason and logic.  We are not Vulcans.  We have emotions and, yes, sometimes
feelings are not reasonable and not logical.  My faith is not based solely on
feelings and flowery passages.  Having been a sinner for 25 years and a believer
for 6 years, my faith is based on personnal experience.  I have felt God's
presence and heard His voice.  He is real!  He is real!  Jesus lives!

God loves, man kills.
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