HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gil@tillage.DIALix.oz.au (Gil Hardwick)
Newsgroups: alt.sustainable.agriculture
Subject: Wolf Summit in Alaska
Distribution: world
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 92 11:30:01 GMT
Organization: STAFF STRATEGIES - Anthropologists & Training Agents


In article <psmith.724529003@cunews> psmith@alfred.carleton.ca writes:

 > In <1992Dec16.151311.28795@ncsu.edu> roberson@eos.ncsu.edu (JAMES D ROBERSON)
 > writes:
 >
 > >I've never put anyone in my kill file, but you have sorely tempted me.
 > >Try responding with something other than venom and vitriol and by
 > >contributing some ideas and views rather than merely taking potshots at
 > >what you disagree with.
 >  
 > >jim
 >  
 > DITTO
 >

To both of you; if you are so concerned as you claim, while you sit
back in complacency while a situation degrades into open conflict
despite the best efforts of others to keep it on track towards a
substantive discourse, you get what you deserve.

What you post here only perpetuates the agony; plainly designed to
misrepresent my repeated pleas for an informed discussion on global
issues as venom and vitriol. I care little from around this end of
the world what your politics are, who you want to take sides with,
or indeed who you are at all in this climate.

The ideas and views you claim to prefer have long been presented,
only to be met with misinformation campaigns, propaganda, and hate
mail to obviously more people than myself. When I see some effort
among *all* participants in this group toward resolving the problem
perhaps I will relax my present stance.

Failing some change of attitude among the American contingent to this
world forum, as I plead on other groups, the hostility will remain.

--
Gil Hardwick                          Internet:  gil@tillage.DIALix.oz.au
Independent Consulting Ethnologist                  Fidonet:  3:690/660.6
PERTH, Western Australia                         Voice:  (+61 9) 399 2401
   * * Sustainable Community Development & Environmental Education * *
Newsgroups: alt.sustainable.agriculture
From: psmith@alfred.carleton.ca (Peter Smith)
Subject: Re: Wolf Summit in Alaska
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 18:03:23 GMT

In <1992Dec16.151311.28795@ncsu.edu> roberson@eos.ncsu.edu (JAMES D ROBERSON) writes:


>In article <724467031snx@tillage.DIALix.oz.au>, gil@tillage.DIALix.oz.au
>(Gil Hardwick) writes:
>> Dumb question time.
>> 
>> What has a propaganda campaign against shooting wolves in Alaska to
>> do
>> with sustainable agriculture that discussion on internecine warfare
>> taking up farmland as its battlefield doesn't?
>> 
>> That the former is allowed openly to occupy space here that the
>> latter
>> is so rudely and hysterically denied?
>> 

>Not so much a dumb question as the dumb answer you give to your own
>question.  I've refrained from responding to your posts in the past,
>because I felt that you would eventually contribute to the discussion,
>but so far I've been disappointed.  It appears that anything that even
>remotely hints that there might be an alternative to what _you_ hold as
>the best method is automatically given the adjectives that you love so
>well - 'rude and hysterical'. 
>I've never put anyone in my kill file, but you have sorely tempted me.
>Try responding with something other than venom and vitriol and by
>contributing some ideas and views rather than merely taking potshots at
>what you disagree with.

>jim

DITTO
Newsgroups: alt.sustainable.agriculture,bionet.plants
From: london@sunSITE.unc.edu (Larry London)
Subject: Re: More on Use of CCA-Treated Wood in Gardens
Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill, N.C.
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 05:32:51 GMT


In article <99.2b305654@ivgate> bob.batson@mtask.omahug.org writes:
>                More on Use of CCA-Treated Wood in Gardens
>
>  On page 91 of the August 1992 _HortIdeas_, we reported that researchers
>in New Zealand have suggested that sawdust from preservative-treated wood
>(CCA: copper/chromium/arsenic) might be suitable for use as an amendment
>for garden soils, despite evidence the roots of some plants growing in
>contact with such sawdust can concentrate copper, chromium, and arsenic
>"to high levels." But what about the safety of placing CCA-treated
>"landscape timbers" in close proximity to food plants? Master Gardeners in
>Bexar County, Texas, took soil samples six inches deep and one inch
>laterally from CCA-treated timbers in several gardens, old and new; they
>compared arsenic levels in those samples to levels in samples taken 12
>inches laterally from the timbers. The results: between 1.1 and 1.4 parts
>per million of arsenic, regardless of whether the samples were taken near
>treated timbers or not. Arsenic often occurs naturally in soils at levels
>up to 20 parts per million; experts consider dangerous levels to be in
>the 200-300 parts per million range. The Master Gardeners concluded (in
>agreement with the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency) that CCA-treated
>timbers are acceptable for use in vegetable gardens.
>  The Master Gardeners also tested for creosote in garden soil near used
>railroad ties; none was detected down to the limits of the testing
>apparatus (660 parts per billion).
>  Reference: Calvin Finch, "Can I Use That Wood? Railroad Ties and
>Landscape Timbers Are Safe," THE GARDEN GATE, October 1992, 5. (Lane
>County Extension Service, 950 W. 13th Ave., Eugene, OR 97402.)
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Reprinted with permission from the November 1992 _HortIdeas_. Copyright
>1992 by Greg and Pat Williams. HortIdeas is $15 (2nd class mail within the
>USA) for one year (12 issues). For more information or a subscription,
>write: HortIdeas, 460 Black Lick Road, Gravel Switch, KY 40328, USA. 
>*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
>Bob Batson
>bob.batson@mtask.omahug.org
From: gil@tillage.DIALix.oz.au (Gil Hardwick)
Newsgroups: alt.sustainable.agriculture
Subject: Wolf Summit in Alaska
Distribution: world
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 92 07:57:37 GMT
Organization: STAFF STRATEGIES - Anthropologists & Training Agents


In article <1992Dec16.151311.28795@ncsu.edu> roberson@eos.ncsu.edu writes:

 > Not so much a dumb question as the dumb answer you give to your own
 > question.  I've refrained from responding to your posts in the past,
 > because I felt that you would eventually contribute to the discussion,
 > but so far I've been disappointed.  It appears that anything that even
 > remotely hints that there might be an alternative to what _you_ hold as
 > the best method is automatically given the adjectives that you love so
 > well - 'rude and hysterical'. 
 > I've never put anyone in my kill file, but you have sorely tempted me.
 > Try responding with something other than venom and vitriol and by
 > contributing some ideas and views rather than merely taking potshots at
 > what you disagree with.
 >
 > jim
 >

Now, Jim, how about tracing the threads back to observe the opening
posts to this group seeking discussion, consistently flamed on the
basis of no evidence presented and no reasoned or thoughtful arguments
prepared to concede that someone else might actually have something
useful to contribute to this group?

As it is I come back to this group repeatedly hoping that the nonsense
has stopped, to find someone there just keeping on rubbing the salt
into the same wounds week after week after week.

Frankly, I feel more strongly than ever that you Americans might keep
your local political propaganda issues *OFF* this international forum,
and allow us in our own respective countries endeavouring to post to
*research* networks to get on with our business.

I am sorry to be the one to wake you up to reality (not the only one
in fact, as several others have attempted posting their material as I
have and been treated as egregiously for it), but world history and
current world affairs are as they are. If you people simply refuse
to take those factors into account please do place me in your silly
kill file. Burying your head on the sand will neither make those
problems go away, nor allow you to sustain whatever agriculture it
is you wish to practice.

On the other hand, as I cease receiving the types of outburst against
constant pleas for common sense here, I am afraid it is very much the
case of when in Rome, do as the Romans do. At any time the people at
your end decide to just get off the abusive attacks against anyone who
seeks to ask questions here, and back on track toward a substantive
debate on sustainable agriculture, the sooner the better as far as I
am concerned.

--
Gil Hardwick                          Internet:  gil@tillage.DIALix.oz.au
Independent Consulting Ethnologist                  Fidonet:  3:690/660.6
PERTH, Western Australia                         Voice:  (+61 9) 399 2401
   * * Sustainable Community Development & Environmental Education * *
Newsgroups: alt.sustainable.agriculture
From: london@sunSITE.unc.edu (Larry London)
Subject: Book on fire blight available from USDA. 
Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 05:05:17 GMT

Tue 15 Dec 92  9:50
By: Bob Batson
Re: FREE BOOK

  The USDA has recently published _Fire Blight---Its Nature, Prevention,
and Control; A Practical Guide to Integrated Disease Management_. This
Agricultural Information Bulletin (AIB 631) was written by T. van der Zwet
of the ARS Appalachian Fruit Research Station and S.V. Beer of the
Department of Plant Pathology at Cornell University in Ithaca, New York.
  While supplies last, copies may be obatained, AT NO COST, from the
following: USDA-ARS-NAA, Appalachian Fruit Research Station, 45 Wiltshire
Road, Kearneysville, WV 25430; and Department of Plant Pathology, Cornell
University, Ithaca, NY 14853.

 * Origin: From the north forty in Kansas, USA! (1:280/322.3)
From: gil@tillage.DIALix.oz.au (Gil Hardwick)
Newsgroups: alt.sustainable.agriculture
Subject: ATTRA articles
Distribution: world
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 92 02:04:32 GMT
Organization: STAFF STRATEGIES - Anthropologists & Training Agents


In article <1992Dec9.034456.15991@samba.oit.unc.edu> london@sunSITE.unc.edu writes:

 > You must be blind or some thoughtful sysadmin is truncating your newsfeed
 > and saving you from all that good stuff us fruitcakes have been sending you
 > here.

What good stuff, Larry?

Organic farm supplies and where to buy hoe handles, with no allowance
for discussion on the social organisation of rural communities, or
(shock! horror!) comment on that fact that foreign intervention is
unwelcome in most parts of the world since that alone has led to the
global destruction of agricultural systems across the board?

Or worse, what might be done about managing better toward replacing
current agricultural practices involving (gasp!) chemicals?

Or yet again, asking valid questions about the overall sustainability
of organic farming on a world scale?

At the risk of receiving some really very queer hate mail from Larry
London et al? I shall overcome my respect for net ethics and simply
repost your next bout of incoherent raving right here, fellow.

As mentioned previously, I am here for the duration. It is just as
important to be monitoring social and cultural attitudes to various
programs which might be put in place from time to time, and if nothing
else some of you people provide compelling survey data we ourselves
would be very interested in planning around as we proceed.

In the meantime, you might consider just letting some of us know who
these ATTRA people are, and what they might have to contribute to the
discussion instead of responding so continuously with your panic
stricken attempts to discredit me. They might well have something
important to say we would regard as valuable information were we to
somehow get around the propaganda to have a look at the substance.

--
Gil Hardwick                          Internet:  gil@tillage.DIALix.oz.au
Independent Consulting Ethnologist                  Fidonet:  3:690/660.6
PERTH, Western Australia                         Voice:  (+61 9) 399 2401
   * * Sustainable Community Development & Environmental Education * *
From: perky@acs.bu.edu (Melissa Sherrin)
Newsgroups: alt.sustainable.agriculture
Subject: Re: Us v. Them (was: Wolf Summit in Alaska)
Date: 19 Dec 92 15:30:05 GMT
Organization: Boston University, Boston, MA, USA
Originator: perky@acs.bu.edu


You know, it seems to me that whoever posted the action alert was 
trying to reach people who might just give a damn about biodiversity.
Now, I may just be an undergrad, but the class I just took the final
exam for taught me that one of the goals of sustainable agriculture is
to retain biodiversity.  Can't we just stretch things a bit?  Can't we
write a few letters and drop this flame war altogether?  We've
got better things to discuss, right?  Now: back to phytoremediation!
Please?

Melissa, the mild-mannered a.s.a lurker
Newsgroups: alt.sustainable.agriculture
From: london@sunSITE.unc.edu (Larry London)
Subject: Re: Wolf Summit in Alaska
Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 15:43:10 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.123642.531@nstn.ns.ca> dc_ags@ac.nsac.ns.ca writes:

You again, eh Don. I thought you might be better than to support Hardwick's
inane, pointless babbling. He's not an agriculture person, he's just a BS'er
and a troublemaker. 

>reading this newsgroup since its creation, and in my opinion, Mr. Hardwick
>has contributed substantially to the discussion.

About as substantially as you, and that's substantially insignificant,
wasteful of bandwidth and conterproductive.

Killfiles are an effective way of dealing with malicious idiots like you
and Hardwick. 

>`venom and vitriol' expressed on all sides that is preventing the 
>powers that be from taking a clear direction... they read things like the

We are the powers that be. Maybe someday that might include you as well.

>what they can contribute in their executive capacity... but what they
>actually get to read is little more than people `taking potshots' at any
>thing they disagree with... and/or one-sided bibliographic references...
>`ACTION ALERT' bulletins in relation to killing wolves in Alaska... 

You obviously have read little of what I and many others have posted here.
Get a life.
As I said before you're not qualified to make informed decisions about the
value of sustainable farming practices since you've not bothered to educate
yourself on the subject.

>So when these people turn off their terminals and shake their heads, and
>when they conclude that sustainable is a noble objective... but that there
>are relatively few truly viable ideas being expressed, can we really blame
>them? One side expresses its views and the other takes pot shots... 
>They conclude that the best direction that they can take is the one they
>are on... in large measure because of the fact that they're tired of listening
>to the narrow-minded assertions of individuals who are unable to see any
>more than a very small part of a very large picture. 

This mindless garbage of yours clearly shows you to be a complete fool.
Newsgroups: alt.sustainable.agriculture
From: roberson@eos.ncsu.edu (JAMES D ROBERSON)
Subject: Re: Wolf Summit in Alaska
Originator: roberson@water1.bae.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: roberson@eos.ncsu.edu (JAMES D ROBERSON)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 15:13:11 GMT


In article <724467031snx@tillage.DIALix.oz.au>, gil@tillage.DIALix.oz.au
(Gil Hardwick) writes:
> Dumb question time.
> 
> What has a propaganda campaign against shooting wolves in Alaska to
> do
> with sustainable agriculture that discussion on internecine warfare
> taking up farmland as its battlefield doesn't?
> 
> That the former is allowed openly to occupy space here that the
> latter
> is so rudely and hysterically denied?
> 

Not so much a dumb question as the dumb answer you give to your own
question.  I've refrained from responding to your posts in the past,
because I felt that you would eventually contribute to the discussion,
but so far I've been disappointed.  It appears that anything that even
remotely hints that there might be an alternative to what _you_ hold as
the best method is automatically given the adjectives that you love so
well - 'rude and hysterical'. 
I've never put anyone in my kill file, but you have sorely tempted me.
Try responding with something other than venom and vitriol and by
contributing some ideas and views rather than merely taking potshots at
what you disagree with.

jim
Newsgroups: alt.sustainable.agriculture
From: donb@crash.cts.com (Donald Bowen)
Subject: woodlot management
Organization: CTS Network Services (crash, ctsnet), El Cajon, CA
Date: 15 Dec 92 21:47:49 GMT

 	I am looking for references to woodlot management.  A friend is
moving to Mass and needs the information to work on a 6 acre woods.

	DonB
Newsgroups: alt.sustainable.agriculture
From: gj169883@alfred.carleton.ca ( gj student 169883)
Subject: heat recovery and work
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 21:29:00 GMT

  I'm writing for two reasons: one is that I'd like to know whether
anyone knows much about the technology being used to recover heat from
grey water on farms.  The second is to find out whether there is
anyone in Canada, particularly Ontario, who is involved in sustainable
agriculture.

  Thanks for your help.

  Colin Rowat
  Department of Psychology
  Carleton University
Newsgroups: alt.sustainable.agriculture
From: psmith@alfred.carleton.ca (Peter Smith)
Subject: Community-Supported Agriculture
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 21:03:26 GMT

At this point, I am just beginning to learn about this idea and its
potential application in areas (such as mine, in Ottawa, Canada) where
it is not well-known.

I realize in a sense, that a successful market gardener is supported
by the community in a sense, but the ideas that I've been hearing
about appear to suggest more community involvement in the actual
ownership (via shares) and operation of the farm.

Perhaps this closer involvement by the user community would better
educate people as to the pros and cons of contentious issues such as
the application of pesticides and monetary returns to the farmer
etc... In other words it might lead people to make more informed
judgements about viability and sustainability of agriculture.

Certainly, it might appear to be small scale, but what other means are
there of getting consumers interested in local farming?

I'd be very interested to hear input from others in the group
pertaining to what they have seen/heard about Community-Supported
Agriculture (or is it Agriculture-Supported Community?).

bye
From: gil@tillage.DIALix.oz.au (Gil Hardwick)
Newsgroups: alt.sustainable.agriculture
Subject: Wolf Summit in Alaska
Distribution: world
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 00:50:31 GMT
Organization: STAFF STRATEGIES - Anthropologists & Training Agents

In article <1992Dec7.222107.2784@samba.oit.unc.edu> london@sunSITE.unc.edu writes:

 > From awhitworth@IGC.APC.ORG Mon Dec  7 17:05:28 1992
 > Date:         Sun, 6 Dec 1992 03:22:02 PST
 > From: Anthony Whitworth <awhitworth@IGC.APC.ORG>
 > Subject:      Ten Reasons Against Killing Wolves
 > To: Multiple recipients of list BIOSPH-L <BIOSPH-L@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu>
 >  
 >  
 > ACTION ALERT  ACTION ALERT  ACTION ALERT  ACTION ALERT  ACTION ALERT
 >  
 > Ten Reasons Against Aerial Wolf Shooting
 > ----------------------------------------

Dumb question time.

What has a propaganda campaign against shooting wolves in Alaska to do
with sustainable agriculture that discussion on internecine warfare
taking up farmland as its battlefield doesn't?

That the former is allowed openly to occupy space here that the latter
is so rudely and hysterically denied?

--
Gil Hardwick                          Internet:  gil@tillage.DIALix.oz.au
Independent Consulting Ethnologist                  Fidonet:  3:690/660.6
PERTH, Western Australia                         Voice:  (+61 9) 399 2401
   * * Sustainable Community Development & Environmental Education * *
From: u2d92@seq1.keele.ac.uk (MJ Gumbley)
Newsgroups: alt.self-improve
Subject: David Ash recordings, anyone?
Date: 16 Dec 92 15:38:32 GMT
Organization: Keele University, England

Hello folks, I've just finished listening to a tape by a gentleman 
called David Ash. He describes his work as a freelance quantum physics, and
attempts to tie spritiual beliefs together with science.

The first side of the tape is "The Science of Ascension" with
"The Science of Transformation" on the other side.

My friend who gave me the tape said that David Ash has produced a few more
recordings, on this, and other matters.

I wonder if anyone out there knows of them, or where I could obtain
any more of his works?

If you could send replies via e-mail please, to u2d92@seq1.cc.keele.ac.uk,
I'd be most grateful. Thanks for any help.
--
Matt J. Gumbley              ||
u2d92@seq1.cc.keele.ac.uk    ||
University of Keele, England ||
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 12:13:42 EST
From: JOHN MICHAEL KALISZEWSKI <JMK127@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.self-improve
Subject: Has anyone heard of....

Hello netters....has anyone ever heard of SAGE Seminars? (Stands for: SELF
ACTUALIZATION GROWTH EXPLORATION). Or has anyone heard of  any of the people
on the SAGE team: William R. Dempsey formerly involved with :
1.) Leadership Dynamics Institute
2.) PSI World Seminars
3.) Sales Dynamics and Mind Dynamics

Others involved in SAGE:
Peggy Davenport
Josephine McCarthy
Michael Brownlee
John Farrell

Any information is appreciated.......Thanks.
                              Sincerely,
                          John M Kaliszewski
From: jittlov@gumby.cs.caltech.edu (Mike Jittlov)
Newsgroups: alt.self-improve
Subject: Re: Question on Graham Potentializer
Date: 20 Dec 1992 08:20:31 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
NNTP-Posting-Host: gumby.cs.caltech.edu

kessner@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (KESSNER ERIC M) writes:

>   I have a friend who has a used Graham Potentializer they are intereted in 
>selling. Anyone have idea how much she should be asking for it?

Honestly, just buy a box of Baggies, and they always include
a bunch of twist-ties.  Wrap one of the ties around the open 
end of the Graham bag.  It keeps the contents fresh and crisp.
Try it!  It really works!
Newsgroups: alt.self-improve
From: m23364@mwunix (James Meritt)
Subject: Re: Why?
Organization: MITRE Corporation, McLean VA
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 21:28:06 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.140149.21960@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM> paul@clodii.Columbia.NCR.COM (Paul Fidler) writes:
}In article <1992Dec18.130909.17873@linus.mitre.org> m23364@mwunix (James Meritt) writes:
}>Quite a few, and more than slightly.  Perhaps you would care to join the
}>mailing list with that express purpose in mind?  My "why" goes on for quite 
}>a few pages.  Still interested?
} 
}Probably, most people's "why"--if they really think about it--goes on for a
}few pages. But, due to day-to-day stuff, I don't think most people have this
}"why" all figured out, much less articulated and at-the-ready to post to the
}net.

That's ok.  Those who do, I'm interested.

}Point is, if you're actually inviting people to invest thought and time into
}this exercise, you might give your request a little more credibility by offer- 
}ing yours first. Otherwise, your question sounds flippant, like flame-bait,
}and you get a bunch of flippant responses.

Thank you for the demonstration.

}Note that I am not the poster you are responding to when you said this--I have
}no real interest in composing a quality post on my personal "whys"....But I
}thought I would point out that you will get alot of insincere responses when
}you ask such a seemingly shot-from-the-hip question.  Did you realize it
}sounded like flame-bait?

That's nice.  And I don't have to include (with attributes, of course) in
the "why" section I'm accumulating.  If someone is flame-happy, no reason
is required.  If they are not, it shouldn't prompt it.


If you care to compose that which you term a "quality post on your personal whys"
and email them to me, I'll swap you that, if you wish, for a few hundred pages
I've accumulated...


Newsgroups: alt.self-improve