HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: alan@osf.org (Alan Hamilton)
Subject: Re: Bisexuality and androgyny
Organization: Open Software Foundation
	<1k2a10INNq9o@network.ucsd.edu>
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 18:45:19 GMT

vanhoek@bend.ucsd.edu (Karen van Hoek) writes:
> And the idea that being bisexual means you don't
> notice or care about gender -- not true for me.

Nor for me, though I have a wide range of enjoyment.  ;-)

I don't want to limit the normal range of people's appearance or
self-expression.  In fact, I want to expand it.

That's why in the _Lesbigay and Transgender Glossary_ one of the
definitions of "androgynous" is "independence from the \fIgender
roles\fP specified by society."  This is a meaning of androgynous that
many more people can get behind, rather than just "I can't tell
whether it's a man or a woman."

 -Alan
From: as010b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Scorpii)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: question about the triangle
Date: 25 Jan 93 20:53:12 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester - Rochester, New York

In <1993Jan24.203055.26264@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> rb012b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Rod Bugarin-registered Democrat) writes:

>In <1993Jan24.130204.10122@iscsvax.uni.edu> weaverli0469@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:

>>Just a quick question : What does the triangle stand for? I see them every so
>>often at the bottom of people's notes...
>>        

>>     Like this one:
>>        _____
>>        \   /   
>>         \ /
>>    
>>Shawn

>From my understanding, it was used during Nazi Germany to identify gays or
>jews.  I'm not sure.  Basically, it is for a symbol for queer life, either
>queer-friendly or just queers.  Hope that helps!!!!

>Rod- registered Democrat.  Viva Socks Clinton!!!
>rb012b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu

Why, hello, Rod.  I hadn't realized you'd begun posting.  I'd hint something
to the group as a whole that you've just been de-muffined and hence need
HUGS HUGS and more HUGS, but perhaps you're unprepared.  Nevertheless...

HUGS KISSES and other various and sundry CARESSES

That's the way we welcome people here...so welcome to a world of us
bi-people and our friends.

To add something to this whole triangle discussion, I've been told by
someone that the triangle specifically relates to AIDS when right-side up,
and represents "taking back the language" or some such PC agenda like that
when upside down.  I don't know how much (if any) truth there is to
this...anyone care to shed some light on this myth-or-reality?

Drewcifer
-- 
***************************************************************************
** Andrew David Simchik, registered Scorpio ************* SCHNOPIA! *******
***************************************************************************
as010b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: trussell@cwis.unomaha.edu (Tim Russell)
Subject: Re: soc.bi Frequently Answered Questions (FAQ)
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 17:51:18 GMT

eowyn@chopin.udel.edu (Zoe Antonia Velonis) writes:

>I don't have as much experience with them as I'd like, but I personally find 
>threesomes rather fun....
>Don't know if it's so much that it goes hand-in-hand with bisexuality as just
>more fluid attitudes about sex partners in general.  Notrestricted to bi's,
>by any means....

    I think it's a combination of the fact that bisexuals tend to have more
open-minded attitudes about sex in general, and also that they're understand-
ably more at ease being in a sexual setting with a MOTSS.

    And also they can be really, really fun.  :-)  Even with straight men.

--
   Tim Russell                 Omaha, NE              trussell@unomaha.edu
      "Hate is not a family value.  Boycott Colorado." - Melinda Shore
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: kay@dcs.warwick.ac.uk (Kay Dekker)
Subject: Re: What to do at a bar?
Organization: Department of Computer Science, Warwick University, England
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 18:38:04 GMT

In article <1993Jan25.011000.4379@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> tweaver@nyx.cs.du.edu (T.C.Weaver) writes:
>>kay@dcs.warwick.ac.uk (Kay Dekker) writes:
>>>[Somehow, the bifolk I know only behave outrageously in straight
>>>bars.  I well remember Alex's going-away-to-Cambridge do.  Yes,
>>>Tanaqui, Sara, Dave, Alex... this means *you* :)]
>
>Reply to Kay first: Kay, what do you mean, outrageous? Dear, dear, Alex and I
>didn't even get a round of applause for ending up on the floor during that
>kiss...everyone there took it as normal. Mind you, it was the same pub where
>some people were bothered by the Bench performance.  

Absolutely.  But... it was at least potentially outrageous, had there
been people there of a mind to be outraged thereby; mind you, the
same could be said of anything, I guess.

>And you have never seen me working at Gayles (since I work my cocktail magic 
>on women-only night)... it's not just straight bars which get edified.

I *can't*, can I, it being a women-only night, dear?

[Dave's briefcase; which I, being a pervert, did exultantly sniff this
very weekend past]
>Leather, Dave? Heavens, first you get a leather jacket instead of wearing the
>glorious pathcwork, now a leather briefcase? hmm...

Path-cwork?  Up, down, strange, charm - even Top and Bottom (ho ho -
much more suitable than Truth and Beauty (and foo to Keats)), but I've
not come across that one.  Maybe some mail to Salam or Weinberger is
in order?

				Kay
-- 
the Crisco Kid: quiet, shy, mono, Armani-suited.  Not.  idx009@uk.ac.cov.cck
From: pdc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Paul Crowley)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: soc.bi Frequently Answered Questions (FAQ)
Date: 21 Jan 93 14:20:11 GMT
Reply-To: pdc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Paul Crowley)
Organization: Edinburgh University

Quoting litterst@pecan.cns.udel.edu (Stephen Litterst) in article <1993Jan20.154953.22439@udel.edu>:
>In article <1993Jan20.153427.26758@dcs.warwick.ac.uk> kay@dcs.warwick.ac.uk (Kay Dekker) writes:
>>Hehehe... but, Guy, *we're* working on *you* :)

>Good grief man... if you succeed that will be, what?  Four net.conversions?

How many bisexuals does it take to change a lightbulb?

Kay Dekker.
  __                                  _____
\/ o\ Paul Crowley   pdc@dcs.ed.ac.uk \\ //
/\__/ Trust me. I know what I'm doing. \X/
From: zen@death.corp.sun.com (d)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: phrases and sex roles
Date: 21 Jan 93 11:55:43
Organization: savage hackers
	<MUFFY.93Jan19153402@remarque.berkeley.edu>
	<16B5C69E8.ESMITH@SUVM.SYR.EDU>
	<MUFFY.93Jan20165751@remarque.berkeley.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: death.corp.sun.com
In-reply-to: muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu's message of 21 Jan 93 00:57:51 GMT

In article <MUFFY.93Jan20165751@remarque.berkeley.edu> muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu (Muffy Barkocy) writes:
>   Everyone I know knows exactly what I mean when I
>   say "I'm being 'the man' now."

  Is that when you put on the strap-on?

 -- d
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From:  orc@sybase.com (Orc)
Subject: Re: Appearances on and off the net (was Re: Why I read a.s.a.r)
Reply-To: ss19@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: Department of Ambiguity
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 05:35:08 GMT

 eowyn@ravel.udel.edu (Zoe Antonia Velonis) writes:
> orc@sybase.com (Orc) writes:
>> eowyn@brahms.udel.edu (Zoe Antonia Velonis) writes:
>>>Off-net, with people from the net, though...Are you sure you've never fondled
>>>anyone in public on the net?
>>   Well, not since about 1pm (EDT) today, and that's about 6 hours
>>ago, which is long enough to be disregarded.
>Aaawww...I feel so sorry for you....go on.  I know you want to fondle someone.
>It'll make you feel good...everyone else is doin' it...and you've got a whole
>UDel contingent to do it with....

   Oh, sure, that's a  *big* help; you're all of about 800 miles
away, and unreachable for at least another month.

>>>I was under the impression that displays of blatancy were what you were being
>>>employed for...or at least, what you were employing...
>>   *I* didn't put the mistletoe up!
>Okay, points to you....but you *did* have difficulty in seeing it, so I *had*
>to physically point it out to you....

  Yes, you did.  You also mentioned something about mistletoe, too,
or something to that effect.  I must admit that I wasn't paying
much attention to things like that by that point...

                 ____
   david parsons \bi/ "It's been far too long since I've done character
                  \/   assassination"
From: alpha@w6yx.Stanford.EDU (Alpha Schram)
Newsgroups: soc.bi,
Subject: Looking for female tatoo artist!
Date: 26 Jan 1993 08:04:52 GMT
Organization: Stanford University Amateur Radio Club, California USA
Distribution: ba
NNTP-Posting-Host: w6yx.stanford.edu

Well, the subject line pretty much says it.  I've been wanting to get a 
tatoo for some time, and my mother recently confessed to me her desire
to get one.  So, she'll pay for mine (which I can't afford) if I go hold
her hand while she gets hers!  We want to go to a female artist.  I've heard
there is one at Blue Buddha in Oakland/Berkeley--is this true?  Are there
any others around here that anyone recommends?

Alpha

***********************Blonde, Buxom, Bisexual, Badass Biker********************
-- 
Alpha Schram	alpha@w6yx.stanford.edu*################15################
1974 CB360 (Sexy Sadie)		       *#########Molly Goodenbour######### 
"It's not a big motorcycle,	       *####Stanford Women's Basketball###
just a groovy little motorbike..."     *---------ROMANI ITE DOMUM---------
From: st891487@pip.cc.brandeis.edu
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Anyone read Sandman?
Date: 22 Jan 93 03:03:25 GMT
Reply-To: st891487@pip.cc.brandeis.edu
Organization: Brandeis University

In article <C0yqMJ.87M@news.udel.edu>, eowyn@brahms.udel.edu (Zoe Antonia Velonis) writes:
>In article <30305@castle.ed.ac.uk> moragw@castle.ed.ac.uk (Alloy Serving Woman) writes:
>>
>>The issue I read last week (Dream and Delirium searching for Destruction
>>- wipe off the drool..) had an lesson on safe sex given by Death, an
>>extremely reluctant John Constantine and a friendly neighbourhood
>>banana.
>>  'Please dispose of you banana peel wisely.  You can eat the
>>banana.... snigger, snigger.'
>
>Yeah, that was a good issue...and Bast's breasts weren't so bad, either...
>(drool, drool...paper cup, anyone?)
>
>>Mo, the frostbitten.
>
>Now *where* did you say you were getting those goosebumps?  Want me to...ah..
>warm them up for you?  I could even use a banana if you really wanted me to...
>
>Zoe

That Death/AIDS PSA appeared in all of what is now Vertigo that month; I saw it
in Hellblazer.

Mo is getting those goosebumps in Edinburgh, more's the pity...

  -Ximena the equally frostbitten 
>
>
From: as010b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Scorpii)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Hey! Hello?
Date: 22 Jan 93 00:19:58 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester - Rochester, New York

In <77224@apple.apple.COM> stef@Apple.COM (Stef Jones) writes:

>arodgers@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Angus H Rodgers) writes:

>>J.W.Harley@newcastle.ac.uk (Jon Harley) writes:

>>>/jon (what is this obsession with bakery products anwyay?)

>>Tarts? Cream puffs? Crumpets?

>"Would you like some toast?!"

"We haven't got any bread."
"Well, why don't we GET some bread?"
"BeCAUSE, Vivian, we haven't got any BREAD!"

Drewcifer

-- 
***************************************************************************
** Andrew David Simchik, registered Scorpio ************* SCHNOPIA! *******
***************************************************************************
as010b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: TXK025@maccvm.corp.mot.com (Eddie Chandler)
Subject: Thanks
Organization: Motorola
Date: 25 Jan 1993 05:44:13 CST

Just a little post to say thanks to everyone who wished me
a happy birthday last week!

Eddie
From: alpha@w6yx.Stanford.EDU (Alpha Schram)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: howdy
Date: 28 Jan 1993 20:27:51 GMT
Organization: Stanford University Amateur Radio Club, California USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: w6yx.stanford.edu

In article <C1JnFz.8JC@news.udel.edu> forsh@ravel.udel.edu (Tara Louise Forshey) writes:
>Howdy all, I just wanted to say hello and let you all know that I think
>you folks are some of the sweetest people I've read.  Also, I thought this
>would be a wonderful opportunity to demuffin myself, so here I am.  You


*POUNCE*
*HUG*HUG*SNUGGLE*SNORF*HUG*

<mmmmm, new muffin!>
<smacks lips>

ACK!  She's from UDel!  WAHHHHHHHHHHHH!

Alpha
<for the first time in my life, wishing to move to Delaware>

-- 
Alpha Schram    alpha@w6yx.stanford.edu*              #15#
1974 CB360 (Sexy Sadie)                *        #Molly Goodenbour#        
"It's not a big motorcycle,            *####Stanford Women's Basketball###
just a groovy little motorbike..."     *             <sigh>
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: daveb@harlqn.co.uk (Dave Berry)
Subject: Re: Gender and Bi Groups
Organization: Harlequin Ltd, Cambridge, UK
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 15:30:53 GMT

bryant@icd.teradyne.com writes:
>There would be none of
>this foolishness about alternating male and female facilitators, etc.

It sems a bit strong to call this "foolishness".  I agree that it needs
modification to include people of other genders, but the basic aim, of
ensuring that a group doesn't become male-dominated, seems sensible.
Although if a group is already managing to avoid being male-dominated,
then it would be redundant.

Dave.
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: sa121@cl.cam.ac.uk (S. Arrowsmith)
Subject: Re: Why I read a.s.a.r. (was: For Non-Abused Skeptics)
Reply-To: SA121@phx.cam.ac.uk
Organization: Glad to be Sad
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 18:06:34 GMT

In article <vashti.727614720@concave> vashti@concave.cs.wits.ac.za (Vashti Galpin) writes:
>I find the reason why I get quite uncomfortable in the presence of
>massive pdaing (or even not so massive) is I feel curious and want to
>watch (I guess this is called voyeurism), [ ... ]
>
By contrast, I feel uncomfortable around people pdaing (at least I did,
I'm getting better) simple because they *are* doing so, and I am not, not
having the opportunity to.  I got really irritated at people being blatantly
"with" each other -- it felt like a personal insult.

--
\S
SA121@phx.cam.ac.uk | "Internet is so big, so powerful and pointless that for
        ___         |  some people it is a complete substitute for life."
        \X/         |     -- Andrew Brown, The Independent
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: gtoal@pizzabox.demon.co.uk (Graham Toal)
Subject: Re: soc.bi Frequently Answered Questions (FAQ)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 09:52:13 +0000

:>14a.	Are threesomes really that good?
:>
:>	Several answers spring to mind:
:>
:>	o Try it and see.
:>
:>	o Actually, any biblical number should give good results. After
:>	  a threesome you should also try having sex in groups of 7 and
:>	  40. Note:  there is some dispute about whether it is biblical
:>	  numbers or the Fibonacci sequence which gives the best group
:>	  size for orgies.

:I'm a bit reluctant to encourage the myth that threesomes are a part of
:bisexuality in general... what do other people think?

I dunno, worked for me last week :-)

Maybe we should have a quick straw poll just in case it turns out
threesomes *are* a big part of bisexuality in general... :-)

G
From: moragw@castle.ed.ac.uk (Alloy Serving Woman)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: How to have a good cry?
Date: 26 Jan 93 21:11:05 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University


I suppose I have to feel horribly lonely to reach the stage of tears but
if I allow myself to get to that stage I find I just keep on heading
downhill untill I'm contemplating razor blades, there's no happy medium.

I think I used up all my tears when I was a child, I am aggresively
defensive when upset nowadays.  I suppose the anger is either directed
in or out and out is best (although a damn sight harder to explain to
the landlord:' yeah, sorry, I dropped the knife and it got stuck in the
ceiling.') I used to buy cheap crockery from jumble sales and take them
out to the drive where I'd hurl them at the wall.  It was very
satisfying.  Now I take trips to the bottle bank and smash glass to my
hearts content.  I am a mellow person really.

Um, this was supposed to be How To Cry, I appear to have been
sidetracked by Feelings of Deep Discontent.  Time for a eco-friendly
recycling trip methinks.

Mellow Mo

(Where's my sig gone THIS time? OI! Paul Crowley, I need your skills.)
From: ikf@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Bisexuality and androgyny
Date: 27 Jan 93 23:07:58 EST
Distribution: soc
Organization: Cornell University

In article <1k2a10INNq9o@network.ucsd.edu>,
vanhoek@bend.ucsd.edu (Karen van Hoek) writes: 
> I recently read the book _Closer to Home_; many of the essays talk about
> how the bisexual movement is going to do away with gender and lead us
> to a truly androgynous society.   It got me wondering -- _are_ we all
> into androgyny, and if so, to what extent?  Certainly I'm a feminist
...
> notice or care about gender -- not true for me.  I like men who look
> masculine, with as many of the secondary sex characteristics as possible
> (deep voice, body hair, muscles, etc.), and I like women who look and
> dress feminine (I tend to wear skirts and makeup a fair bit, myself).
> I wonder if I'm unusual, and if everyone else in the bi movement likes
> the androgynous look for both sexes.  Any comments?
> Karen

I think that androgyny encompasses far more than standards about dress and
appearance and behavior. It's important to remember that much of the dress
you describe is *enforced* by social approbation. An androgynous society
would mean, for me, that there *isn't* a code of dress or behavior enforced.

The fact that you can say, masculine characteristics, feminine characteristics,
is indicative of a social construct relating a particular set of behaviors
with a particular gender. 

Such constructs are a way of reinforcing gender-centered control, e.g. the
patriarchy under which many of us suffer, because gender becomes a more
visible and separable, and thus segregable, basis for judgement.

Androgynous *appearance* helps to break down these constructs.

For further reading, I suggest 'the lathe of heaven' by ursula le guin. She
uses race in much the way I am discussing androgyny: the main character
wishes racial tension to go away, and everyone turns grey. When this
character moves to restore this later, some people remain grey while others
move toward black or white. Likewise, I see androgyny as promoted by the
bisexual movement to be a stage: we can reclaim difference later once the
enforced constructs begin to be overcome.
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: jsb16@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Jennifer S Broekman)
Subject: Re: A philosophical question...spawn
Reply-To: jsb16@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Jennifer S Broekman)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 03:54:11 GMT

In article <1993Jan23.190116.1@vmsb.is.csupomona.edu> 
cvadrgih@vmsb.is.csupomona.edu writes:
> does it hurt more to be left for a
>member of the opposite sex, or for a member of the same sex?  As a special
>consideration, if you think that your boyfriend is gay (assuming, of course
>that you are a guy) and you've spent the last 4 months (i.e. the entire length
>of your relationship trying to convince him of such), does it hurt more if he
>leaves you for another guy, or for a girl?

I think that if my SO tried to convince me that he/she knew my orientation
better than I did, I would dump him/her asap. One of my ex-SO's tried to
convince me he knew my political orientation better than I did. I was never
so happy as when I told him to forget the whole relationship. Your 'special
consideration' makes me think you *drove* your SO to leave you, for someone
more accepting, regardless of gender.

-jenneke

   Only Boys Accepting Feminism Get Kissed Meaningfully  -- Geoff Marcy
The only unnatural sexual act is that which you cannot perform. - Alfred Kinsey
		jenneke is: jsb16@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.italian
From: brians@wsuvm1.csc.wsu.edu (Paul Brians)
Subject: Re: Re:Postcards sent from Italy ...
Followup-To: soc.culture.italian
Organization: Washington State University
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 00:00:11 GMT

When I was in Italy a few years ago, I followed the suggestion of my
guidebook to use the Vatican postal service.  It seemed pretty speedy.  Of
course, it's only useful if you happen to be at the Vatican when you want
to mail something.

Paul Brians
Department of English, Washington State University, Pullman
BitNet: brians@wsuvm1   Internet: brians@wsuvm1.csc.edu
From: enpnjat@gdr.bath.ac.uk (N J A Thorne)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.italian
Subject: Language Course at Italian Uni?
Date: 27 Jan 93 12:09:28 GMT
Distribution: eunet
Organization: School of Mechanical Engineering, University of Bath, UK


	I am currently undertaking a short, basic course
in Italian (too basic to enable me to write this in 
Italian!!) and am keen to do a more intensive course in
Italy. Does anyone know of any good summer vacation
courses at any Italian University? (preferrably 2-3 weeks
long). Any details would be very gratefully received.

	Thanks in advance,

		Nicky Thorne 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.italian
From: robur@sabrina.dei.unipd.it (Marco Brombin 273543/IL)
Subject: Parole Italiane
Organization: D.E.I. Universita' di Padova, Italia
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 08:00:24 GMT


 Qualcosa di simile a quello che cercate esiste gia'e viene adoperato
 per fare quei giochini televisivi su canale 5 e se non ricordo male,
 fu adoperato anche dalla rai.Non vorrei sbagliarmi,ma credo che sia
 stato creato dalla Zanichelli,ed e' quindi probabile che sia protetto
 da copyright.Comunque,provare a chiedere non costa nulla.
 Saluti
 

  Marco Brombin  273543                   robur@sabrina.dei.unipd.ita
Newsgroups: soc.culture.italian