HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cockburn@majors.enet.dec.com (Craig Cockburn)
Subject: Re: So, do they have one or not?
Organization: Digital Equipment Co. Ltd., Newbury, England
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 19:21:14 GMT


In article <SMAILL.92Apr12182201@sin.aisb.ed.ac.uk>, smaill@aisb.ed.ac.uk (Alan Smaill) writes...
>In article <1992Apr7.103923.66@mtechca.uucp> foster@mtechca.uucp (self.attribute:=major_arcana[0].name) writes:
> 
>	   Chris Lee> We don't have a bill of rights.
>	   Clive Feather> Yes we do. It was passed in 1689.
> 
>   Was it an Act of Parliament? Was it the feared and dreaded Charter?
>   Was it a royal decree? What does Britain have that they call a bill
>   of rights? If you tell me what it is called, I promise I will go
>   read about it at the library and I won't ask anyone in s.c.c how it
>   works or whether it is any good or better than ours or any of that.
> 
>It is called simply "the bill of rights".
>When James the  Seventh and Second was chased away in 1688,
>thus ending absolute monarchism, Parliament wanted to set
>down what rights the subjects of the constitutional monarchs
>that followed should have.
> 
>It has an important place in political history as a forerunner
>to the constitutions associated with the American and French
>revolutions.

In 1689, Scotland had its own Parliament. By "we have a bill of rights",
you of course only mean England. Scotland has no such bill of rights
(see the OED under "Bill")

Craig

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Craig Cockburn, Digital Equipment Co. Ltd, Newbury, England.  
  ARPAnet: cockburn@majors.enet.dec.com                            Saor
  UUCP:..!decwrl!majors.enet.dec.com!cockburn                      Alba!

  Views here are my own, and are not necessarily those of Digital
From: trifid@agora.uucp (Roadster Racewerks)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Suze / Ireland / Support for paramilitaries
Date: 12 Apr 92 21:55:50 GMT
Article-I.D.: agora.1992Apr12.215550.14214
Organization: Open Communications Forum

In article <dcnnnghm.702567343@unix1.tcd.ie> dcnnnghm@unix1.tcd.ie (Mithrandir) writes:
>
>	Trifid@agora.uucp (Roadster Racewerks) writes:
>
>
>
>>times the native people of Ireland have tried to explain their wish that super-
>>"patriotic" expatriates, and romanticizing descendents would leave off, and
>>let Ireland settle her own problems.
>
>This is quite true. We, the Irish living in Ireland, wish that people such
>as Noraid, and those that support them, would take a flying leap off a high 
>building. They damage Ireland more that they can ever know.
>
>>such. Neither group is worthy of much admiration, a fact not lost on most
>>native Irish.
>
>Suze is an American, yet even she can see the truth. (No offense intended
>at "even she", Suze, hope you see what I'm getting at)
>
>		Donal.
>
>


No offense at all, Donal. I think in fairness to some of the Americans who do
contribute to unfortunate causes they don't understand well, out of misplaced
love of the "Old Country", that I ought to point out that I have for most of
my adult life been one to search out news from Ireland and other places from
other sources than just the local paper. American papers are notoriously
region-centric, not even covering other parts of the US very well, much less a
small foreign country; and TV is even worse (unless the story is wildly 
sensational). The best paper for foreign news is the Christian Science Monitor,
(which I learned to read from my grandmother, bless her) and most Americans are
put off by the fact it is run by a religion. (Most US papers run by religions
are just house-papers for the sect, so it's understandable...) So it isn't
unusual for an American to have *no* other in-depth source of news about Eire
than the local Noraid propagandist, or (admittedly exiting) speakers and hangers
on to travelling musicians who have IRA connections.

I challenge people like Holohan to go to the local library and read the most
main-stream of the *Dublin* newspapers, if they want the real news from "home".
I'm sure the folks in Ireland can take over and tell us all which are the ones
most likely to express the sentiments of the majority of the Irish themselves
And if you go to Ireland, go with no pre-planned itinerary of only "friends" of
the "friends" who filled your ears with tales of the IRA. The current crop are
not much like the heroes of the WWI era. Go with an open mind and open eyes. I
already knew most Irish were pretty tired of the IRA, but I was surprised at
the depth of anger against them expressed in the papers and on the radio. 
(Didn't see any TV...spent all my spare time behind the wheel.. And I *loved*
driving in Ireland. But then, they drive a lot like me... :-)

Suze
From: walker@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Graham Walker, 227 West Old Main,268-3847,)
Subject: Re: Two Celtic cultures -- two newsgroups
Organization: Clarkson University
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 19:03:02 GMT

> There's nothing wrong with soc.culture.celtic as is, I think. It WOULD make 
> more sense to me to have soc.culture.irish, as other countries do, but one
> of the virtues of this group as currently posted would appear to be in its
> potential for including a wide variety of viewpoints and perspectives.
> 
> If it ain't broken, no need to fix it.
> 
> 			Jeff Finlay
> 			St Peter's College
> 			Jersey City, USA 

Well, I aggree with this sentiment.

															GW

Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: walker@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Graham Walker, 227 West Old Main,268-3847,)
Subject: Re: USA go home (Was Re: Shooting)
Organization: Clarkson University
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 19:00:09 GMT

From article <15392@optima.cs.arizona.edu>, by gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary L. Newell):
> I doubt it - they come of their own free
> will because they believe that their few months in the US working menial
> jobs is going to allow them and their families to survive - something
> that they cannot guarantee if they stay in Mexico (or any other Central
> American country). It would seem to me that it is the duty of the
> Mexican govt. to  supply its peoples with conditions and jobs which
> would not require their citizens to cross a border to work for peanuts
> in order to survive. 
> 
Yes, and US companies and their western peers have exploited the third
world for as much as they can get, and continue to do so. Also, when the
illegal immigrants cross the border, the farmers who employ them treat
them like slaves, by forcing them to buy from the "company store." They
also use their illegal status to deny them a proper wage, and will often
make them work in very unsafe working conditions. The US people
therefore also have an obligation to provide these people with a "real" wage.
>
>  There are few ethnic groups in this country who were exploited worse than
> the Irish. Much like the central Americans you speak of above, Irish were
> forced to take the menial jobs that others would not. They lived in
> slums of major port cities and suffered discrimination at a level as high
> as almost any ethnic group that comes to mind. Your implication that they
>  "made it" on the backs of exploited blacks and central americans is insulting
> and absurd. 
> 
And when the poles came the Irish community threated them like shite
(e.g. Boston).

																GW
From: morna@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Morna J Findlay)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Scotland - what happens now?
Date: 13 Apr 92 11:15:13 GMT
Reply-To: morna@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Morna J Findlay)
Organization: Laboratory for the Foundations of Computer Science, Edinburgh U


Having some pals round to watch the results on Thursday, my SO went out
to the off-licence to get a few cans in. He came back saying that it
was like Hogmanay - queues out of the door and the streets full of
people intending to celebrate the Tories anticipated defeat and
Scotlands new future.

Sob!

Well, I was so depressed on Friday I just couldn't get out of bed. I
have still hardly looked at a paper.

However, one of our pals phoned us on Sunday morning saying that she
didn't exactly know what was going on, but "some people" would be 
meeting outside the locked gates of the building that was to House
the new Scottish Parliament in Edinburgh that afternoon.

We went along ( it was our sproggies first Demo ) and there was a crowd
of a couple of hundred motley types, an unknown woman mostly in control
- ie she was giving the microphone to anyone who had something to say.
Anyone who wanted could say their piece. We heard that a demo had been
organised in Glasgow for that afternoon, to which we later heard 5000
people had turned up. The demand of the Glasgow demo, organised by
"Scotland United" is for a multi-option referendum on the future of`
our nation.

The demand of the Edinburgh gathering, organised by the "non-party"
"Common Cause" seems to be roughly the same. That's what everyone
seems to want. There was a bit of sniping between SNP supporters, who 
seem to blame everyone for not voting for them, and others, but not
as much as usual. The sutuation is too serious for that :-(

Everyone had on their mind the unwanted despots of the Scottish
office who'll be in there polishing their desks and seeking to impose
their Tory doctrines once again on us.

Anyway - latest news is that the Scottish Labour Party ( of which I am a
member) leadership has finally conceded that a multi-option referendum
status quo - independance - devolution is the only way forward.
This is what the SNP want, the Greens and maybe the SLD too.

It may even happen in the next few weeks.

cheers!
Not quite so despairing of Edinburgh.




--
Morna Findlay 					JANET:morna@uk.ac.ed.dcs 
	Thanksgiving For a National Victory (Robert Burns)
Ye hypocrites! are these your pranks? To murder men and give God thanks?
Desist, for shame! Proceed no further: God won't accept your thanks for murther.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: sl55050@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (SauWai )
Subject: Just a survey for International Student, Like to Check It Out??
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 00:31:56 GMT


Hi,
	I'm doing a research about international students and their life in 
US.  I would appreciate it very much if you can take a few minutes and answer
the following questions as truthfull as you can.  Thank you very much.

PLEASE ONLY REPLY IF YOU ARE INTERNATIONAL STUDENT. THANKS.


1. Did you have any problems with communication?(language barrier) (Y or N)
2. Did you have difficulties meeting friends? (Y or N)
3. Did you encounter any major financial problems? (Y or N)
4. Did you experience any academic problems due to the new learning environment?(Y or N)
5. Have you heard of the counseling service for international students on you
   campus? (Y or N)

   Suppose you have heard about it and decided to go to seek counseling help:

6. Would you have a preference to have a counselor who has the same ethnic 
   background as you do? (Y or N)
7. Would you have a preference over the gender of your counselor? (Y or N)
8. Would you like to have "peer counseling"? (Y or N)
   (Have the same background as you)
9 Do you think it is helpful for you to adapt to the new enviroment :
       a. joining an ethnic organization (Y or N)
       b. having more cultural events taking place on campus(Y or N)
       c. going to workshops such as for stress manangement, studying skill etc.
	  (Y or N)
10. Would you seek help from the counseling center if you ever encounter
    any problems such as those mentioned above?(Y or N)
11. Do you have any inputs that you like to give?

Except for question 11, you can just answer y or n.  Once again I like to thank
	you for your time.

a) Country you came from:                 
b) Age:
c) Gender:
d) undergrad/grad/others:

THANKS AGAIN!

			 			Karen Lau
						s-lau3@uiuc.edu
From: gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary L. Newell)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Two Celtic cultures
Date: 12 Apr 92 08:52:13 GMT
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson



 How about 4 or 5 Celtic cultures?? We could have a separate group for 
names and other important topics - or perhaps one for a certain dark brew
that so many find a key to life ;-) or one for the high and mighty who
call for variations of censorship every so often??? Yeah - I like the idea...


			gln

Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: oconnell@vms.macc.wisc.edu (Kevin Patrick O'Connell)
Subject: Re: Liking Indiana (was Re: Sick'n'tired of the "Troubles"
Organization:  University of Wisconsin Academic Computing Center
Date: 10 APR 92 15:50:20    

In article <92099.173758RBYAML@ROHVM1.BITNET>, Aengus Lawlor <RBYAML@ROHVM1.BITNET> writes...

>I had hoped that some people might have learned from recent
>postings that "catholic" and "protestant" are inappropriate labels in the
>context of Northern Ireland, but, at least in your case, is a flase hope.

Not so!!  In fact, when I started the "how can they tell" thread, I 
realized that religious differences were not the central issue in NI.  
As I said in a previous post, I simply wanted to hear more people's 
thoughts on this matter.  


>Your taste for particular
>topics for discussion is neither nor there, unless you feel that we would
>all be better employed following up on threads that you have a taste for.

Of course!  Isn't this the hope of all who post?  That someone will 
take up conversing the topic that they proffer?!  :-)

>Aengus
>--
>RBYAML@ROHMHAAS.COM                    Aengus Lawlor
>RBYAML@ROHVM1.BITNET                   (who used to be ALAWLOR@DIT.IE)
>"How about some of that famous Dublin wit, Barman?"
>"Certainly, sir. Would that be Dry or Sparkling?"


I've enjoyed this exchange a great deal--thank you for your views, and 
your chastisement!

Kevin
From: finlay_j@spcvxb.spc.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Two Celtic cultures -- two newsgroups
Date: 16 Apr 92 18:05:08 GMT
Organization: St. Peter's College, US

In article <1992Apr16.090837.6804@rdg.dec.com>, cockburn@majors.enet.dec.com 
(Craig Cockburn) writes:
> 
> What about:
> 
> soc.culture.celtic.language  (for discussions in and about Celtic languages)
> soc.culture.celtic.politics  (for general political discussion)
> soc.culture.celtic.misc      (for everything else)
> 
> Craig 

I think the first of these might die a quick
but painless death, and the last might suffer from a lack of definition which
would eventually lead it to overlap with the politics net.

There's nothing wrong with soc.culture.celtic as is, I think. It WOULD make 
more sense to me to have soc.culture.irish, as other countries do, but one
of the virtues of this group as currently posted would appear to be in its
potential for including a wide variety of viewpoints and perspectives.

If it ain't broken, no need to fix it.

			Jeff Finlay
			St Peter's College
			Jersey City, USA
From: mike@fionn.lbl.gov (Michael Helm)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Secondary Identities (Was Re: USA go home (Was Re: Shooting))
Date: 16 Apr 92 17:17:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: dog.22746
Reply-To: mike@fionn.lbl.gov (Michael Helm)
Organization: N.I.C.E.
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.128.60

Morna J Findlay writes:
>he or she sees themself? Is it your peers? Are there some nationalities
>that it is more popular to be associated with than others? If you could

Sure, there must be yards of books on American anthropology written
about this ... somewhere.  For example, it's a big plus to be
descended in some way from the Mayflower Pilgrims or the early
Virginians or the Dutch settlers of NY state.  On the east coast
being able to claim some Indian descent is a plus.   It sort of
works like the antique trade.

Now, the Celts are in fashion so it's a good thing to be one of
them.  But every dog has its day.
From: mike@nomad.lbl.gov (Michael Helm)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: USA go home (Was Re: Shooting)
Date: 15 Apr 92 17:54:59 GMT
Article-I.D.: dog.22717
Reply-To: mike@nomad.lbl.gov (Michael Helm)
Organization: N.I.C.E.
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.128.20

Adam Hamilton writes:
>	Most of the 18 million americans of Irish descent came to the US by
>virtue of being born there.  I don't see why their ancestry gives them ANY
>right to have a say in the politics of another country.  Two of my
>grandparents were Polish; I don't think that gives me any extra say in
>Polish politics today. 

The rules applying to citizenship of Ireland often permit people born
in foreign lands, descended from citizens, to apply for & receive Irish
citizenship.  In the case of Ireland it used to be basically any Irish
ancestry qualified you; it's been restricted nowadays to grandparents
(& great-grandparents in some special cases).  Nearly every country
has some system for this, &  I expect Poland does as well.

2nd, the side effects of bad politics around the world affect us
directly.  When someone screws up in the world, the "consequences" of
those mistakes arrive here. Sometimes that's our gain & your loss.
Sometimes not.  If you don't want to hear our opinion about "your"
politics, start by getting your house in order so "your" politics
is not a problem for us.  Why is there an emigrant culture in Ireland
today, anyway?  Why are we "wasting" time & resources on Morrison
& Donnelly visas?  [I don't consider them a waste but there are those
here who are hostile to any immigration.]  The USA has at various
times turned off the safety valve for Haiti & other places -- this
is a very cruel & unpleasant policy to pursue, but there are reasons
for it.  There's always the remote possibility it could be applied
to Irish immigration.  

>	Why is the US the only country where people routinely claim 2
>countries as their own (Italian-American etc.)?

We're an immigrant culture here.  It's happening in the UK today
too, what with all the West Indian/Indian/Asian &c influx.  Open
your eyes to it.  The USA is far from unique in this respect.
No melting pot is perfect.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic,soc.culture.british
From: preece@sbpexe.enet.dec.com (Ian Preece)
Subject: Re: Update on the Caraher shooting
Reply-To: preece@sbpexe.enet.dec.com
Organization: Digital Equipment Corp.
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 14:08:01 GMT


In article <1992Apr9.123937.6164@e2big.mko.dec.com>,
holohan@mark.enet.dec.com (Mark Holohan) writes:


>
>Two Royal Marine Commandos were charged in February for murdering 20

	No.  Charged with murder, maybe. Not "for murdering"
	That's pre-judgement and, as Mark is fond of saying, justice
	is the goal.


>At the time of the incident, the British armed forces alleged that the
                                                       ^^^^^^^
>Caraher testified at the June 1991 Public Inquiry into the shooting
         ^^^^^^^^^

	Interesting slant in the use of words, there.....
	one side "testifies", the other merely "alleges".
	Just a smidgeon of bias, maybe ?



>There is a widely-held belief that the British operate a shoot-to-kill
>policy throughout northern Ireland. 

There is a widely-held belief among British civilians and servicemen that
they are the targets of a shoot-to-kill policy themselves.
Odd coincidence, no ?


>
>  Mark Holohan, DEC, USA        "Character is what you are in the dark" - BB
                      ^^^

Odd, isn't it, how the further one gets from the situation, the more
entrenched and volubly-expressed one's opinions become ? 

Some of us have to live here.....

 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
ObDisclaimer:

       "I wouldn't *work* for a company that held opinions like mine."      

Ian Preece,                                         Digital Equipment, UK. 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic,soc.culture.british
From: sp@mirabeau.osf.fr (Simon Patience)
Subject: Re: Women in parliament
Reply-To: sp@mirabeau.osf.fr (Simon Patience)
Organization: OSF Research Institute
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 08:28:51 GMT

In article <SMAILL.92Apr16224031@sin.aisb.ed.ac.uk>,
smaill@aisb.ed.ac.uk (Alan Smaill) writes:
> In article <1992Apr16.175529.19291@pony.Ingres.COM> cmorris@Ingres.COM
(Colin Morris) writes:
> 
>    Apparently, in all her twelve years in power, Margaret Thatcher didn't
>    appoint a single woman to her cabinet...
> 
> Pedantic correction follows:
> 
> there was one (and only one), a certain Ms/Mrs/Lady Young, in the
early years .

What about Edwina (No Sex please) Curry? Or wasn't she in the cabinet?

Simon.

  Simon Patience
  Open Software Foundation			Phone: +33-76-63-48-72
  Research Institute				FAX:   +33-76-51-05-32
  2 Avenue De Vignate				Email: sp@gr.osf.org
  38610 Gieres, France				       uunet!gr.osf.org!sp
From: gsmith@bbn.com (Graeme Smith)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: USA go home (Was Re: Shooting)
Date: 15 Apr 92 12:41:02 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com

gmcquary@Ingres.COM (George F. McQuary) writes:

|>In article <1992Apr9.140801.29545@rdg.dec.com|> preece@sbpexe.enet.dec.com writes:
|>>|>  Mark Holohan, DEC, USA        "Character is what you are in the dark" - BB
|>>
|>>Odd, isn't it, how the further one gets from the situation, the more
|>>entrenched and volubly-expressed one's opinions become ? 

|>No one here is shooting each other, bombing the subways, or moving in standing
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
...now that is not quite true is it.

|>armies as part of the expression of their opinions. I'd say we here in the USA
|>are remarkably well restrained compared to some. 
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
...I assume you are only speaking in terms of the populace and not the incumbent
government.

|>As to being well entrenched, well, some might say twenty years of not being
|>able to find a solution is somewhat entrenched. 

|>There are more Irish-Americians (18 million at last count) than there are Irish.
|>Every Irish-Americian learns as a child that seven of the US presidents were
|>all or in part of Irish decent (Now eight with Reagan?) so we have obtained here
|>a status in the world not enjoyed by Ireland itself.  We came to this country
|>because of famine, having our land stolen from us, conscription, or as white
|>slaves for the plantations. Because of this, the average Irish-americian
|>is fairly pissed off at the UK.

|>When faced with such arrogance in the sons of the people who did this to us,
|>it is  difficult NOT to cheer whenever someone blows up more British. I very much
|>resent the attitude that Irish-americians should keep quiet about Irish politics.

...so you cheered last Friday when the IRA blew up a 14 year old girl and her 7
year old sister, along with scores of other civilians...bloody charming, all I
see here is typical Irish-American rhetoric.

Graeme
From: pac9897@zeus.tamu.edu (SMELLS LIKE JOHN MAJOR....)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: TEST
Date: 17 Apr 92 10:14:00 GMT
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <22689@megatest.UUCP>, bryan@megatest.UUCP (Brendan Ryan) writes...
> 
> THIS IS A TEST

Really?

Philip A. Carney
From: johnl@yang.earlham.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Bagpipe Wedding Songs
Date: 6 Apr 92 21:20:58 GMT
Organization: Earlham College, Richmond, Indiana

In article <1992Mar31.112437.20966@rdg.dec.com>, cockburn@majors.enet.dec.com (Craig Cockburn) writes:

> We actually had Amazing Grace played at the church at our wedding and it
> sounded great on the organ (it was the processional). However, I heard it 
> on the bagpipes at the Albert Hall last year and it sounded great.

	I'll second that.  We had it played at our wedding, too, except it 
was the recessional, and played on the pipes.

	--John Fiskio-Lasseter
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic