From: adri0001@student.tc.umn.edu ()
Subject: In response to Sheila King
Summary: it's not working!
Keywords: Education
Organization: University of Minnesota
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 00:25:28 GMT

Sheila King writes:
 
>More to Amarit:
 
Amrit :)
 
>-> What exactly is a valid reason?
 
>Already mentioned above, the student has a slip. Sometimes, however,
>even if the student doesn't have a slip I may think the explanation
>for tardiness is reasonable. How can I possibly give you a list of what
>"valid reasons" are to me? It varies, and I consider each one on a
>case by case basis.
 
But do you consider the fact that the student is simply not interested in
what you are teaching and that the student does not feel he/she has any
place to tell you that because you seem to have so wantonly declared your
authority in the issue?
 
>-> What do you think the student learns when he/she is sitting in
>-> detention?
 
>Well, if the student is as intelligent as you and I, he will find
>detention a silly waste of time, and hope to avoid it in the future.  So
>the student will learn, that the behavior which earned him the
>detention should be avoided if he wants to not waste his own time.
 
...and if your class is viewed as a waste of time, then the student is in
a no-win situation...it's go to class, which he/she may not want to do, or
go to detention, which he/she may not want to do...what is the student to do
but for the sake of remaining sane, simply accept the conditioned behavior as
truth, and do as he/she is told.
 
>-> How do you know the student has understood the cause of the
>-> detention?
 
>By talking to the student at the time I decide to give him the
>detention. Understanding is very important to me. I'd rather not give
>any detention at all, than give one and have the student not
>understand what it's for.
 
...what I understand the detention as is conditioning the student to "like"
your class for the sake of you and the other students, all of whom (all but
you that is) have no say in what you are "teaching."
 
What subject and grade do you teach?
 
>-> That's really great!  You have scared the living daylights out of
>-> your students and you know...they're coming to your class on time not
>-> because they like your class, or because they are actually interested
>-> in learning, but because they don't want to have to spend any more
>-> time than they have to at school and in the track of learning.
 
>The above is absolutely NOT true about me, my class or my students.  They
>are NOT scared of me, they LIKE my class (they have TOLD me so) and
>you can come visit some time if you'd like to see for yourself.
 
ALL of them have TOLD you that they like your class?  I am not talking about
a select few that have told you they enjoy your class.  That's really great,
that a few kids like your class.  Heck, there were a few classes I liked when
I went through school, but there were others I did NOT LIKE AT ALL...yet, I was
forced to take the damn class because I _had to_.  You know, in order to get
all my graduation requirements for high school, I was forced to take a physical
education class when I wanted to take a philosophy class.  I ran track and
cross country all four years in high school, and yet, the state and the board
of education saw fit to see that I took that semester of gym so that I could
get my diploma and say:
 
"Look ma...I'm now educated!"
 
This is WRONG!  To me that philosophy class would have been much more
productive and may even have helped me do better during the first semester of
my freshman year in college when I had a philosophy class that covered some
of the same material the class in high school covered.  Not all your students
like your class, and to assume so is absurd.
 
>-> Sorry, but I certainly couldn't resist the chance of my slight
>-> sarcasm.
 
>Try a little harder next time. I really didn't appreciate it.
 
I didn't mean to offend you, and if I did, I apologize.
 
>-> No it should never REQUIRE a punishment.  These are kids and they
>-> should be allowed to BE kids.
 
>These are adults-in-training, and in the real world inappropriate
>actions have very real consequences. The law is the law.
 
Adults in training, eh?  Well, the educational system is failing if that's what
we're trying to get at.  These are not adults in training...no Sheila, these
are kids-in-learning.  And what about the "law is the law"...do you get to
vote?  Do you get to influence that law?  Do you get to protest that law?  Does
a student enjoy that same right?  No, because a student is an adult in
training, right?....that's a circular answer and one that I get often.
 
>More next message
 
ditto ....
 

-- 
   -=-=-=  Amrit Chauhan --- Conciousness can be Demystified  -=-=-=-
 -=-=-=  achauhan@math.macalstr.edu - #AppleIIgs forever        -=-=-=-
-=-=-=   Conciousness depends on its associated concepts.         =-=-=-
-=-=-=   Cartesian Duelism is giving up on science.   -->--<@     =-=-=-