HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mwasserm@diana.cair.du.edu (MARC Y. WASSERMAN)
Subject: Re: Two Doctors No-Prizes (*SPOILERS for 2Drs*)
Organization: University of Denver, Denver, Colorado
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 02:25:05 GMT

In article <1992Jul27.032234.981@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> ira2p@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Iain Robert Asplin) writes:
>Are you sure?
>Here's what Marc Platt (of "Ghost Light" fame) reported of the early stages
>of "The Two Doctors" in first drafts by Robert Holmes, in an old issue
>of the Whovian Times from DWFCA.
>
(Some deleted)
>Then, tragedyu struck, and Richard Hurndall (the First Doctor in "The
>Five Doctors" whom they wanted to use in this story), died in 1984.

I'm almost surprised they didn't find a replacement.  Of
all the Doctors, I'd imagine that it would be easiest to
find a guy that looks like Hartnell.  When you say "tragedy",
did Hurndall die tragically or of old age? 
>The First Doctor's use would have no continuity problems, since none
>of us know what exactly he was doing before "An Unearthly Child."

Of course, we don't know occasionally what the Doctor is up
to--he seems to age faster than the stories do.

marc Wasserman
mwasserm@diana.cair.du.edu


-- 
"So you're choosing to run from your own people in a rackety old TARDIS?"
		     D  O  C  T  O  R     W  H  O
				30 Years
"Why not?  After all, that's how it all started!"
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
From: ira2p@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Iain Robert Asplin)
Subject: ToaTL disclaimer, "Read the Novel" McCoy stories, Who is Valeyard?
Organization: University of Virginia
Distribution: rec.arts.drwho
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 13:45:35 GMT

On the issue of a disclaimer at the end of the Trial, well, it would've
looked silly wouldn't it? "Sorry about the confusion in this episode
folks, but the writer died at the last minute and we only had 24 hours
to write this replacement."  

On the issue of behind-the-scenes foreknowledge, as far as I can recall,
no one in the fan community either in the UK or the US actually knew
of the chaos Holmes' death had caused the scripts.  They knew of Holmes'
death and probably feared a  little something like this, but no one
actually had the foreknowledge of this episode's hasty creation.

And on the issue of "read the novel" McCoy stories, I just have to say I
don't think such a thing exists.  I watched and understood all twelve
just by what we were given on screen, and enjoyed eleven of them 
enormously.  The one I didn't enjoy was "Time and the Rani," but 
clarity of narrative was certainly not that one's only problem.
The only story I think "have to read the novel" *slightly* applies
would be "Ghost Light," but even there, it doesn't actually tell you
much that you didn't already know, merely reinforces it.  "The Survey
is Josiah," is one very crucial line at the start of Part Three that
if you miss it, you could be in complete confusion by the end of the
show, in which case a reviewing or book read would be in order,
but I caught that line first time, and I think I understood about 90%
of the script the first time through.  
On the other ten, I have little or no problem understanding what's
going on at all.  The Season 24 stories are certainly crystal clear,
Remembrance (provided you remember your Dalek continuity) is clear,
Happiness Patrol is clear, Silver Nemesis is a little muddled due to the
edits that had to be made but still clear enough that a novel reading
isn't vital (good thing too, novel of this one sucks), Greatest Show
in the Galaxy is clear up until the Gods of Ragnarok appear (but don't
fret aboout their past because the novel doesn't tell you either!),
Battlefield didn't snag me, Ghost Light I've already mentioned,
Curse of Fenric was remarkably clear I thought, and then we have "Survival."
Survival will be the next story I target for synopsis, and hopefully
anyone who missed the social and moral undercurrents in that one will
see just what a subtle piece of work this one was. Its basic plot was
perfectly clear, and on top of this it has this wonderful layer of
symbolic metaphor.  Terrific story, and my next synopsis target.

Battlefield part four will appear later tonight.  Then on to Survival!

Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
From: bcr@cernapo (Bill Riemers)
Subject: Re: As easy as Pi
Organization: CERN, European Research Center for High Energy Physics
	<1992Jul27.031408.815@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 19:05:30 GMT

In article <1992Jul27.031408.815@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> ira2p@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Iain Robert Asplin) writes:

         How the Master knew the original starting point is another question,
   but since he knew the secret anyway, presumably he knew where the
   patterns would begin again after the Doctor's coin tricks (the coin was
   still on the floor, so he could possibly have deduced the next pattern
   from its position).

Ok, how did the Doctor then figure out the next sequence?  More likely is
that the pattern is based on where you first step...  Why else would the
master have to shoot the last Cyberman?  It could also be the same pattern
can not be repeated again right away.

                                      Bill


Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
From: bartlone@gemed (Mike Bartolone (414)785-4266)
Subject: Wanted:
Followup-To: bartlone@gemed.ge.com
Reply-To: bartlone@gemed.ge.com (Mike Bartolone 5-4266)
Organization: GE Medical Systems, Milwaukee,  WI
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 21:26:52 GMT


Hi..I posted a request for some infomation about a store in the Madison
WI area a few weeks back. Thanks if you are still looking, but my 
brother (the one that actually wanted the info) found it elsewhere.
Now he would like me to find out if any one knows of businesses
anywhere in the country that could possibly sell Dr. Who memoribilia
mail-order. He is looking for figurines (especially Cybermen) and
books and just about any other rarities that might be available.
For initial contact, please send me e-mail.

--
##############################################################
## bartlone@last.med.ge.com 08:00-17:00 Mon-Fri my opinions ##
## are given to me by my boss...after that they are mine... ##
## except when my wifes decides otherwise...                ##
##############################################################

Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
From: mrmuon@next09pg2.wam.umd.edu (Eli John Hawkins)
Subject: Re: lost episodes with Patrick Troughton
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 19:40:24 GMT

In article <1992Jul20.054533.20151@mercury.cair.du.edu>  
mwasserm@diana.cair.du.edu (MARC Y. WASSERMAN) writes:
> 
> Troughton was the second Doctor from 1966-1969.  He was
> born on March 25, 1920 and died sometime in 1987.  He
> made 21 episodes (three seasons each of 7).  Most are
> missing lost episodes.  The most recent recovery is 
> "Tomb of the Cybermen", the first episode of the fifth
> season.  Other episodes of his are nearly complete or
> recovered so you may see more soon.  As it is the only
> ones that survive are in the sixth season (1969), including
> the last and one of the best, "The War Games".

 Not episodes, stories composed of as many as 10 episodes. His seasons  
were 40 episodes or longer.
From: yadallee@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Dave Shariff Yadallee)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
Subject: Quiz Episode 4
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 05:44:33 MDT
Organization: Edmonton Remote Systems #2, Edmonton, AB, Canada



we have the results from the first 3 trivia quizzes:

   Frank Durda IV (uhclem@nemesis.lonestar.org)  24/30
   James William Bennetts (james@mundil.cs.mu.ozau) 18/30
   Ron O'Dell (keeper@deeptht.santa-cruz.ca.us) 15.5/30
   Jonathan Drukman (jondr@sco.com) 15.5/20
   Ariane (Ablanch@physics.su.oz.au) 8/30
   Kevin Blayton (kgb8752@ultb.isc.rit.edu) 7/30
   Richard K. Fox (fox-r@cis.ohio-state.edu) 5/30
   Franklin Trumphy (swan@iastate.edu)  3.5/30


And now Part 4, which is purely based on DR mk 1:

 1)  which story did "Edge of Destruction" replace ?

 *2)  who was the enemy in "Marco Polo" ?

 *3) Who was Joanna to marry in "The Crusades"?

 4) Who was Koquilion in reality?

 5) On which Planet was Stephen picked up ?

 6) According to the Doctor, how many years did the TARDIS travel in "The
    Ark"?

7) Who was the Doctor's double in "The Romans"?

8) Name Johnny Ringo's ex-girlfriend in "The Gunfighters"?

9) What does WOTAN stand for?

*10) Name the surviving astronauts from the incident with " The 10th Planet" ?


    Rules:
   1)  No posting of answers.  That is up to me.
   2)  Enter as many times as you like, until you get 10/10.
   3)  Deadline is now 5 August, 1992 11:59 MDT.





Dave Shariff Yadallee
yadallee@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca, userLIBE@mts.ucs.ualberta.ca
God Save the Queen, God Bless us All!
yankee: (n) a person with long, yankable hair
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
Subject: Re: References of Christianity
From: ppugliese@pimacc.pima.edu
Date: 24 Jul 92 23:05:44 MST

In article <1992Jul24.203314.11396@wam.umd.edu>, mrmuon@next06pg2.wam.umd.edu (Eli John Hawkins) writes:
> In article <12342@ecs.soton.ac.uk> lm89@ecs.soton.ac.uk (McIlhoney L)  
> writes:
>> In <1992Jul21.174651.1966@wam.umd.edu> mrmuon@next03pg2.wam.umd.edu (Eli  

>> 
>> As for Alexandria - you get lunatic vandals in every culture.  The
>> fact that this one was thought to be a Christian is surely coincidence
>> - I don't recall Christ ever saying "And be sure to burn down a few
>> libraries for they are things of the Devil ..."  Or did he?  Go on!
>   Not one, a mob. And they were definitely Christian.
>> 
>     Ignorant destruction does piss me off. Early Christianity had a way of  
> inciting it and directing it against the existing culture and learning,  
> destrying many good things and tipping society into the dark ages. A  
> significant amount of the literature we now have from the pre-christian  
> era comes to us not because of christian libraries and such, but because  
> they were saved by the Islamic empire.

Funny how you single out early christians for this anti-destruction dia-
tribe. Especially, when virtually every culture that's ever been was built
upon the ruins of the one before it. How do you think the Romans established
there's. And now the Christians were responsible for the Dark Ages? I guess
the barabarians that began tearing apart the Empire long before don't count
until they converted eh? And the fact that the victims of those same bar-
barians were predominately christians doesn't either. In fact, Constantin-
ople was one of the few beacons of order in the the disorder of the Dark 
Ages & it was Christian. Blaming the Christians for the Dark Ages is scape-
goating, pure & simple.

PHIL

Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
From: trump@iastate.edu (Jennifer M Trumpy)
Subject: Re: PBs in England
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 17:21:07 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.195037.7582@wam.umd.edu> mrmuon@next08pg2.wam.umd.edu (Eli John Hawkins) writes:
>In article <1992Jul22.152014.7872@news.iastate.edu> trump@iastate.edu  
>(Jennifer M Trumpy) writes:
>> Look, you completely dense people...You cannot compare time travel
>> to the production of a television show. Face it. Nor can you compare
>> it to bumblebees. If you want me to have some Quantum Physicists 
>> send you crap loads upon crap loads of info on why going back in time
>> is impossible, I will have it for you. Just tell me your post address.
>
>  I am a quantum physicist. I do not rule out the possibility of time  
>travel.

Big deal. Do you INVESTIGATE it? Not all fo quantum physics deals with time,
and many areas hardly even brush it. Look, chaps, if you want the opinions of
hundreds upon hundreds of scientiscs, I'll get 'em for you. And 99% of them
say Time Travel is NOT possible. I would like to ask you all a question...

In 1900, I am 20. A build a Time Machine and travel back in time to 1881. I
kille me as an infant. Now, where the hell did the 1900 me come from? Huh?

Frank Trumpy
trump@iastate.edu

Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
From: drich@sandman.lerc.nasa.gov (Daniel Rich)
Subject: Re: Cleveland, Ohio LOSES Doctor Who !
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 22:29:24 GMT

In article <1992Jul16.185543.14811@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>, aa201@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Doc White) writes:

    .... Msg about WVIZ stopping Dr. Who broadcasts deleted ....

While it is true that the ratings are dropping, then neglect to
mention one of the potential reasons why.  I used to watch Dr. Who on
TV 25, but stopped the last time they purchased the rights.  You see,
the didn't just purchase the rights to brodcast the series, but the
*exclusive* broadcast rights for northern Ohio.  That's right, no
other station within TV 25s viewing area could show Dr. Who.  I was
watching on TV 45/49 the final night they were allowed to show DW.  At
that point I decided that not only was I going to avoid watching 25 as
much as possible, but that I would not give them any funding money.

I have to admit, while 25 was enjoying their "exclusive" rights, it
forced the other stations to find other things to fill the time.  I
have since had the chance to watch several episodes of Blakes Seven
and Red Dwarf (which I have never seen on WVIZ)....

-- 
Dan Rich                    | drich@lerc.nasa.gov   |  (216) 433-4000
Sr. Systems Engineer        | "Danger, you haven't seen the last of me!"
RMS Technologies, Inc.      |    "No, but the first of you turns my stomach!"
NASA Lewis Research Center  | -- The Firesign Theatre's Nick Danger
From: Liz%Eng%Banyan@MAGNOLIA.BANYAN.COM
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
Subject: Re: Sylv and Sophie
Date: 29 Jul 92 18:12:25 GMT
X-Unparsable-Date: Wed, 31 Dec 69 19:00:00 EST

hannon@umbc4.umbc.edu (Mr. Scott Hannon; PHYS (GRAD)) says
>But Ace...yech! Hate is too strong a word (its just tv show), but I think
>she is bad for Dr Who on a number of levels. The main problem I have with
>her (by far) is her hobby, making bombs. I'm amazed that a TV program for
>children (Dr Who is seen as this by some) can pass off a person like
>Ace as a positive role model. 

I can see your point.  But how good a role-model (especially for young
women - and there were a good number of us brought up on the Doctor) is
a quasi-intelligent shrieker who reverts to the mentality of a twelve-
year-old every time the Doctor is in the general vicinity???  Ace, at
least, is a three-dimensional completely drawn human being.  The last time
(IMHO) that this kind of effort was made with a female companion was with
Liz Shaw, and we all know how long *she* lasted.

As for the explosives; well, I get a bit of a charge (you'll pardon the
pun;-)) out of Ace's hobby.  As I mentioned, I haven't seen that many
Ace stories; but in Fenric, the nitro-nine was used appropriately - and
only once (although a number of things were blown up in other ways).  
[Can somebody tell me if she's ever killed anyone with the stuff?]  I
think she is generally a positive role model - she's bright, she speaks
her mind, and she's a truly good, if imperfect, person.  I'd rather see
her as a role model than some half-dressed woman running around killing
people with little thorns.

So I disagree with you. :-)  All of this is my own opinion only, and I
don't begrudge you yours.

Liz
lizb@banyan.com
From: trump@iastate.edu (Jennifer M Trumpy)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
Subject: Re: As easy as Pi
Keywords: 5Drs, Pi, Chess
Date: 28 Jul 92 16:52:07 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.1992Jul28.165207.7464
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA

In article <1992Jul28.141533.22409@afterlife.ncsc.mil> glreno@afterlife.ncsc.mil (Gerald Reno) writes:
>In article <1992Jul27.163522.15693@news.iastate.edu> trump@iastate.edu (Jennifer M Trumpy) writes:
>>(incidentialy: the calculation of the portion of Pi the Doctor mentions is
>>WRONG. He says: 3.1415269, and the first few digidts is: 3.1415927)
>>
>>Frank Trumpy
>>trump@iastate.edu
>
>Uhh, Frank.... 
>
>What the Doctor said, (3.14159265) (Did you see the five?) was

Apparently you don't understand that '5' and '9' sound very much alike.
Not too hard to confuse.

>correct. 3.1415926535.... Your number (off a calculator, I
>presume) is rounded up one digit from what he said.

Didn't use a calculator...used 'Conceptual Physics', who devote several 
paragraphs just to listing pi, and that's what it showed...All I have to say
about it.

>
>Jerry Reno (pi r round) glreno@afterlife.ncsc.mil

Frank Trumpy
trump@iastate.edu
From: mark@opus.pass.wayne.edu (Mark Murphy)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
Subject: Tomb of the Cybermen in Detroit on WTVS 56
Date: 29 Jul 92 14:26:45 GMT
Organization: Wayne State University, Detroit


After hearing alot of talk about other public station in the US that will be  
showing "Tomb of the Cybermen", I thought I would call WTVS Ch56 and see if  
they are planning on showing it also. The answer is YES!!!!!!!!!!!!! The  
programming department said they have it in and will be showing it during the  
pledge drive in August, specifically Aug 28. I'm sure this will make alot of  
you happy since WTVS is piped by satelite across most of Canada.

--

Mark Murphy
Wayne State University
mark@opus.pass.wayne.edu   (NeXT)
mmurphy@cms.cc.wayne.edu   (VM/CMS)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
From: trump@iastate.edu (Jennifer M Trumpy)
Subject: Re: PBs in England
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 17:24:04 GMT

Who cares what Tom Baker said about Bumblebees? I disproved that bit a couple
of days ago. That's not what this discussion is about. Wait a minute, wait a
minute...If the Doctor said that Bumblebees couldn't fly, HE WAS WRONG...Whoa
spoiler city.

Frank Trumpy
trump@iastate.edu
From: jblum@hamlet.umd.edu (Hi ho -- Kermit the Frog here...)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
Subject: The Master's companion?
Date: 30 Jul 92 17:04:27 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park

In article <1992Jul29.224454.18977@umbc3.umbc.edu> hannon@umbc4.umbc.edu (Mr. Scott Hannon; PHYS (GRAD)) writes:
>I was thinking maybe the Master should get a (evil) companion. Might make
>for an interesting story. Might allow the Dr's companion to fight the
>Masters companion without replying on the Dr to save him/her. 

Well, they did something like that in "The Mark of the Rani", but it
seemed more like the Master was the Rani's companion than the other
way around.

There were also rumors that, after "Trial of a Time Lord," that the
Master and Glitz would have ended up as business partners of a sort.
Now that would have been an interesting match-up, especially if they
went up against the seventh Doctor and Ace...  we all know what a
soft spot Ace has for the old bilgebag...
From: TheMadDoctor@cup.portal.com (Shane Derek Killian)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
Subject: Re: "SHADA" Video
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 18:45:50 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1992Jul25.142322.19132@news.iastate.edu> <62850@cup.portal.com>
  <1992Jul26.225723.10373@news.iastate.edu>

>You've it the wrong way round. HHGG came FIRST, then he some stuff to Shada,
>and the Dirk Gently-Dead Planet thing is just so obvious, I was flabbergastI
First: I wasn't talking about Hitchhiker's Guide, I was talking about the
first Dirk Gently book...which came out quite some time *after* Shada.

Second, he wrote Shada under Douglas Adams. City of Death was written
with the producer (can't remember his name) with Adams, and *that* was
written under Agnew.


TheMadDoctor@cup.portal.com | "The more complex the mind, the greater the
(Shane Derek Killian)       | need for the simplicity of play." --Jim Kirk
                            | --------------------------------------------
FIDO: Shane Killian         | "People say I watch too many cartoons.
      1:151/2308            | ...Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhh, could be!!!!!"
                            |                              --Mark McCollum
From: "dale clayton" <dale.clayton@canrem.com>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
Subject: post it!
Date: 31 Jul 92 00:35:24 EST
Reply-To: "dale clayton" <dale.clayton@canrem.com>
Distribution: rec
Organization: Canada Remote Systems

Steve:

-> You've probably seen my previous post about the loss of Part Three.

Yupper.

-> killing before the file was complete), I would like to write the
-> thing on my own system (VAXes) then email it to you and you then post
-> it.
-> So, if you can work this, how about it?

I'd be happy to do it. Just send the parts to "dale.clayton@canrem.com".
I'll capture them, chop the headers and footers (ect.) and repost. No
problem (that I can see - I just hope you save the files on your own
system in case of unforeseen problems in the nets). Any time you're
ready....

Regards,
Dale Clayton
------------------------
dale.clayton@canrem.com
or
dale.clayton@canrem.uucp

The former address is best. The latter, unreliable.
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario/Detroit, MI
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
From: glreno@afterlife.ncsc.mil (Gerald Reno)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
Subject: Re: As easy as Pi
Keywords: 5Drs, Pi, Chess
Date: 28 Jul 92 14:15:33 GMT
Organization: The Great Beyond

In article <1992Jul27.163522.15693@news.iastate.edu> trump@iastate.edu (Jennifer M Trumpy) writes:
>(incidentialy: the calculation of the portion of Pi the Doctor mentions is
>WRONG. He says: 3.1415269, and the first few digidts is: 3.1415927)
>
>Frank Trumpy
>trump@iastate.edu

Uhh, Frank.... 

What the Doctor said, (3.14159265) (Did you see the five?) was
correct. 3.1415926535.... Your number (off a calculator, I
presume) is rounded up one digit from what he said.

Jerry Reno (pi r round) glreno@afterlife.ncsc.mil
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
From: mrmuon@next08pg2.wam.umd.edu (Eli John Hawkins)
Subject: Re: References of Christianity
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 20:13:21 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.002418.6808@pimacc.pima.edu>  
ppugliese@pimacc.pima.edu writes:
 >    The library of Alexandria was a great place of learning before  
> > Christianity; then the Christians came along and burned it down. The  
> > Christian places of learning were established for teaching  
Christianity.
> 
> According to an encyclopedia I just checked the Library was burned four
> times since Julius Caesar. The first time was in 47BC when Julius was
> besieged there by followers of Pompey. The next 3 times are described
> as "according to legend"; 272AD (by order of the Roman Emperor Lucius
> Domitius Aurelian), 391AD (under the Roman Emperor Theodosius I) &  
lastly,
> in 640AD (by Muslims under the Caliph Omar I). I believe that there was
> also at least one other fire that predated 47BC. I think that if anyone
> looks it up they'll find that the final destruction of the Library came
> by Muslim conquest & not christian zealotry.
> 
> PHIL

   391AD would be in the Christian dominated era and must be the incident  
I was thinking of. The two previous incidents must not have been teribly  
significant because the library was still going fine when a Christian mob  
decided to include it as another pagan thing that had to go. They burned  
the library and all the books. They grabbed the librarian and mutilated  
her to death.
   I have heard the claim that the library was burned by muslims. It  
wasn't. This is simply a lie made up by Christians to pass the blame on to  
others. The real library did not exist in 640AD.
   Incidentaly I think there was something in "Timewyrm" about the Doctor  
rescuing some scrolls (plays I think) just before the library was burned.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
From: yadallee@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Dave Shariff Yadallee)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
Subject: Novel Nostalgia
Date: 31 Jul 92 11:12:03 GMT
Organization: Edmonton Remote Systems #3, Edmonton, AB, Canada


Trying something new, thanks due to a hockeyer.

The new book covers for old novels - not a good idea, IMHO.  It loses the
nostalgia of the WHOmobila.  I believe once they have an original cover, stick
to it and do NOT replace it.

Comments? Opinions? nukes?


Dave Shariff Yadallee
yadallee@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca, userLIBE@mts.ucs.ualberta.ca
God Save the Queen, God Bless us All!
yankee: (n) a person with long, yankable hair