HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: MLV's of last year
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 19:22:53 GMT


I thought I'd embarrass Dr. Dave by quoting some remarkably
appropriate comments from his MLV posting last January:

R/game	Player		MR/game		Comments

4.45	League		0

4.86	Thomas		0.413  		(about 67 runs total, or 6 to 7 wins)
4.67	Martinez E	0.219		(best unknown player in baseball)
4.57	Alomar R	0.117		(gets SB points; may be great someday)
4.52	Pecota		0.066		(Happier now, Mets fans?)
4.50	Baerga		0.053		(Only good hitter on the Indians)
4.49	Fryman		0.038		(pathetic OBP, but very young. Watch.)
4.48	Devereaux	0.025		(should never lead off. Bat him fifth.)
4.43	Yount		-0.016		(He's not *that* old; trouble brewing.)
4.36	Gladden		-0.089		(...and getting worse.)
4.29	Pena		-0.158		(Never confuse him with an OK hitter.)
4.28	Jacoby		-0.174		(very atypical.  Who knows.)

4.01	LEAGUE		0.000

4.33	Bonds		0.318		(clearly the cream, but not Big Frank)
4.30	Pendleton	0.290		(throw in D and SB, and he's legit MVP)
4.27	McGriff		0.267		(this guy is a dream; the new Murray.)
4.24	Kruk		0.231		(most underrated star-quality player)
4.18	Walker L.	0.175		(He and Calderon held the Expos.)
4.16	Bell G.		0.150		(And in Wrigley, yet.  Sheesh.)
4.16	Van Slyke	0.149		(even with nothing against lefties.)
4.14	Dawson		0.137		(See G. Bell)
4.12	Zeile		0.117		(Would be tremendous for a catcher)

Some of these players have had "surprising" seasons, like Alomar,
Martinez, Fryman, Devereaux, Pena, McGriff, Kruk...  Yet it seems
to me that Tate called them right.  Way to go!

Cheers,
-Valentine
-- 
Clemens may not win his 4th CY, but he still rules!	tedward@cs.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: 'Ol George goes for 3000, BUT ...
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 92 23:14:33 GMT

In article <1992Sep1.162600.2673@island.COM> fester@island.COM (Mike Fester) writes:

>Well, if you're going to compare career BAs, none of them is close to Brett's.

Silly me, Mike.  I shouldn't have bothered to read Richard's ".275 hitter"
comment.
>
>While jeffries is undoubtedly the Royals' best every-day player this year, 
>Brett is as good as or better player than most of the one's listed above. 
>Howard? .313 OBP, NO power at all, ~.313 OBP, 8 errors in part-time play.
>He ain't even in the same LEAGUE. Joyner's good, but Brett is a competent 
>1st sacker as well, and their hitting stats are pretty similar (after a HORRIBLE
>start by George). Mac's SLG isn't much higher, and he's missed a bunch of
>games. Miller's been alright, but his hitting isn't THAT much better, and he's 
>been a part-timer, too. 

So you mean to compare Brett and Howard's raw stats, even though one is a DH
and one is a SS?  Brett is an average (or slightly below average) DH.  Howard
is an above average SS (I am *not* saying that he'll keep it up, though).
If you replace Brett with an average DH, you don't lose anything.  If you
replace Howard with an average SS, you lose runs.  Fair enough, sir?

Miller also plays a much tougher position than Brett, and plays it quite well.
He has been one of the better offensive 2Bs in the game this year.

>In any event, I have no idea how you can continually draw conclusions like
>"Howard being more valuable than Brett" if you look at how much they've played.

See above.  And you are *continuing* to ignore positional differences.

===============================================================================
GO CALIFORNIA ANGELS!
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)
From: kiviat@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Brian Kiviat)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Oakland after the Trade
Date: 3 Sep 92 11:41:44 GMT
Reply-To: kiviat@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Brian Kiviat)
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD

The A's were swept by the O's this week. They only scored 2 runs in
the series.  They lost yesterday in 10 innings 2-1. This was the kind
of game a pennant winner must win. Maybe they are still a little shocked
by the trade. Maybe the O's pitching is just that good....
   O
   I\   Brian Kiviat (301)227-1833       Sometimes the truth is hidden,
   I \  kiviat@oasys.dt.navy.mil         Like a shadow in the darkness.
  /     David Taylor Model Basin                  -Master Po
   \___________________________
			     \\
From: rsmith@strobe.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Russ Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Trade rumors
Date: 26 Aug 92 14:39:27 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Olivetti ATC; Cupertino CA, USA

In article <1992Aug25.183807.3613@honte.uleth.ca> savoy@hg.uleth.ca writes:
>there in right and sometimes he looks great. As for his stats - he is listed
>very highly in the RNG category in USA Today, the Scouting Report says he has
>a great arm, etc and yet he has been continually trashed in this forum for
>being a poor fielder that should be playing first-base! What's the scoop on
>this guy? (didn't someone - Nelson? - put up a listing recently that had
>Larry Walker-Felix Jose ranked numbers 1-and-2 in the league defensively?



Sherri's DA numbers for last year put Felix Jose about the middle of the
pack in RF(as I recall don't have the info handy). IMHO he's been worse
this year than last(based solely on watching him play). Yes he has a 
great arm, and yes he's fast, but he consistently gets either a poor jump,
or breaks the wrong way, and a lot of balls fall in. The kicker was the
series against Atlanta when Brian Jordan played right a couple of days in
a row, Jordan was catching everything hit and all of a sudden I was 
convinced that I had been right about Felix all along(admittedly Jordan
is a true centerfielder and the Cards think he's better than Lankford
on defense). When Felix came up with the A's I saw him a lot and wondered
why they would DH him and play Canseco in right, now I know why, Canseco
is a better rightfielder than Felix.

He's not a bad outfielder, if thats what I'be been saying I apologize, its
just that with Gilkey,Lankford and hopefully Jordan(if he's ready next
year) on the roster, I think 1B would be a great way to keep Felix's
bat in the lineup, I don't want to trade him.





Russ Smith
*******************************************************************************
"A bank is a place where they lend you an umbrella in fair weather, and ask
for it back again when it begins to rain."
                                          Robert Frost
********************************************************************************
From: Graham_Sloan@abcd.Houghton.MI.US (Graham Sloan)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: CUB'S MADDUX EASY CHOICE FOR CY
Distribution: world
Date: 3 Sep 92 21:39:16 EST
Organization: Amiga BitSwap Central Dispatch

Not to blame you, but I wish other people would just admit that the Cubs
have the best staff in MLB this year and quit trying to say why. They're
good, damn good, and that's all there is...

-- Via DLG Pro v0.995
From: csquared@coos.dartmouth.edu (C Squared)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Trading Deadline
Date: 28 Aug 92 10:50:56 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
Originator: csquared@coos.dartmouth.edu

In article <1992Aug28.054816.15481@leland.Stanford.EDU> claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
>In article <1992Aug28.052132.19388@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> rrodabau@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Ronald D Rodabaugh) writes:
>
>>     After the deadline, though, each player that a team wishes to trade must 
>>clear waivers. This is a particularly dangerous proposition, for any player 
>>placed on a waivers list is fair game to be picked up by any other team in the 
>>league, with half of the player's salary being paid by the team he was placed 
>>on waivers by.
>
>Close, but not quite.  The players are placed on revocable waivers, so if any
>team tries to pick them up, the waiver will be revoked.
>
Unless of course your GM is Lou Gorman, who will let the player be claimed off
waivers, and go get a hamburger.

On a serious note, isn't it only teams with a worse record who can claim the
player?  Or did they change that rule?

C Squared
From: demers@cs.ucsd.edu (David DeMers)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: how surprised should we be at Tabler?
Date: 4 Sep 92 18:42:00 GMT
Organization: =CSE Dept., U.C. San Diego

In article <5461@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> genetic+@pitt.edu (Dr. Dave) writes:
>Thus spake z_copeab@ccsvax.sfasu.edu:
>
>>In article <5440@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP>, genetic+@pitt.edu (Dr. Dave) writes:

>>> Thus spake 91287041@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard):

>>>>Why not Tabler?  Is 50-102 (or whatever) not a big enough sample size?

Anyone know what it is exactly?  At the extremes, it makes a
bit of difference.

 
>>> ...take into account the fact that you're only
>>> looking at Tabler because he was the extreme point in a large population of
>>> players.  If I toss 200 coins 100 times each, one of them will likely show
>>> a very skewed ratio of heads to tails, even if all the coins are fair.

>>	From a statistical standpoint, 102 AB is enough in this kind of
>>situation for a sample size.

>No, it isn't.

>...you can't treat Tabler's numbers in isolation as if they
>were an arbitrary player's numbers, because they aren't.  They were selected
>for their unusual nature, and this biases the various expectations.

I have a little program which simulates this.  Given probability
p of (success), it runs n trials and counts up the total, over N
experiments.  (this is a lot easier than doing the math to find
out given N, n and a max, what p is likely to be...)

To get one result of at least 50 out of 102 trials, over 500 
experiments (approx the number of non-pitchers, a bit high), 
we need p ~= 0.325.  But p = .310 generally gives 48/102 or so.

Does anyone know what BA with bases loaded is, league average?
And what Tabler's true numbers are?


-- 
Dave DeMers			 ddemers@UCSD   demers@cs.ucsd.edu
Computer Science & Engineering	C-014		demers%cs@ucsd.bitnet
UC San Diego					...!ucsd!cs!demers
La Jolla, CA 92093-0114	(619) 534-0688, or -8187, FAX: (619) 534-7029
From: z_copeab@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: ANSWER: RULEBOOK TRIVIA 17
Date: 26 Aug 92 12:09:17 CST
Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University

In article <92238.231056IO20456@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>, Ryan Robbins <IO20456@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> writes:
> LAST WEEK'S PLAY:
> 
>      On a 3-2 count the pitcher sends a fast ball high and tight to
>      a right handed hitter. The batter attempts to get out of the
>      way by turning counter clockwise. The ball strikes him in the
>      hip as he loses his grip on the bat. The bat falls to the
>      ground in front of the plate. You're the home plate umpire.
>      What's the call?
> 
> THE CALL:
> 
> The batter in the first play is out on strikes. The intent of the
> batter is not a factor in this play. A strike is defined in Rule
> 2.00 as a legal pitch which "Is struck at by the batter and is
> missed." Even though the batter didn't intend to, he swung at the
> pitch when he turned and lost control of his bat. Whether a batter
> has swung or not is determined by whether the bat head broke the
> parallel plane of the front of the plate. Despite what people have
> argued for years, "breaking" of the wrists means nothing when
> determining if a batter swung or not.

	I'm not arguing whether or not this is a correct interpretation of the
rules (it is), but it is a very cheap way to get somebody out, and not very
fair to the batter (and no, I don't like the 'batted ball hits runner = single
for batter and baserunner out for interference (I still want the runner out,
but the batter returns to the plate with the count he had prior to the ball put
in play, unless the baserunner accounted for the 3rd out of the inning, in
which case the batter leads off in his team's next time at-bat, with a 0-0
count)).

Brandon Cope
From: msw10@nepenthe.as (Michael S. Wong)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Cone and Overwork?
Date: 2 Sep 92 00:49:13 GMT
Reply-To: msw10@nepenthe.as
Organization: Sun Microsystems

I can't wait to hear someone now talk about how pitchers just don't have balls anymore,
how they used to walk 50 miles in the snow without shoes to
get to a game. Then they'd start and finish both ends of a double header, extra
innings or not.

Then they'd do it again on 2 days rest. 

Michael Wong
msw10@nepenthe
From: jhopkins@cbacc.cba.uga.edu (John Hopkins)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Sanders to stay with Braves
Keywords: SANDERS BRAVES FALCONS
Date: 28 Aug 92 13:16:45 GMT
Organization: Terry College of Business, University of Georgia


It was announced on the news this morning that Deion Sanders has decided to 
stay with the Braves for the remainder of the season.  He will miss 6 to 8 
Falcon games as a result of his decision.

I say to Bobby Cox, take advantage of this.  Bench Gant and platoon Sanders 
and Smith in left field.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
| John D. Hopkins, Operational Support    |                               |
| Terry College of Business Computer Ctr. |  jhopkins@cbacc.cba.uga.edu   |
| University of Georgia, ph.(706)542-3829 |                               |
| Athens, Georgia  30602-6270, USA        |                               |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
| "If God truly dwells inside of us like some people say, then I hope He  |
|  likes enchiladas, because that's what He's getting."                   |
|                           -- Jack Handey, "Deep Thoughts"               |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: chuq@gallant.apple.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Collusion or Sanity?
Date: 3 Sep 92 15:53:37 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: I is a writur

luigi@bullpen.csd.sgi.com (Randy Palermo) writes:

>Could this be the start of a trend in baseball?

Start of a trend? Just this season, take a look at what Pittsburgh's done to
reduce payroll.

It's a long-running tradition to try to fire-sale free agents you don't
think you can re-sign.

>With the failures of the Dodgers and Mets, could the owners finally be 
>coming to the realization that you cannot Buy a pennant? 

Nah. That would imply intelligence. Besides, Steinbrenner's coming back. 

(seriously, expect the free agents this season to be REALLY unhappy with the
dollars tossed at them. There are too many free agents of high caliber, too
many teams losing money and too many fiscal questions within the league,
like the TV contract. I expect a lot of owners to be sitting on their
wallets or be really choosy).

-- 
Chuq "IMHO" Von Rospach, ESD Support & Training (DAL/AUX) =+= Member, SFWA
  chuq@apple.com | GEnie: MAC.BIGOT | ALink:CHUQ =+= Editor, OtherRealms

    I believe there should be a constitutional amendment outlawing the
From: rsmith@strobe.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Russ Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: A's Lineup!
Date: 4 Sep 92 16:55:12 GMT
Organization: Olivetti ATC; Cupertino CA, USA

In article <1992Sep4.162644.3837@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> gidi@Hilbert.Stanford.EDU (Gidi Avrahami) writes:
>I could be wrong; I usually am.  Maybe the A's will win this thing
>anyway.  Maybe they'll even win behind Sierra's power and Witt's
>pitching.  But they used to be a team with a character, a team I
>enjoyed watching.  Now, they're something else.  Something in a suit,
>something I don't really like.

I for one think you're not wrong, as I said in a previous post, a hell
of a lot of things have to go right in order for this deal to be good:
sign sierra, turn witt around, get good prospects when you let Russell
go free agent, and hold onto the lead which has already dropped 3 full
games since the trade.

It could work out well, but if they hadn't made the deal, they would
still likely win the division. Witt isn't going to be good enought
to offset Guzman and COne or Mussina , the A's offense will be the key
in the playoffs and world series, their pitching is inferior to all 
the teams that they might face(Toronto(maybe), Baltimore, Atlanta,
Pittsburgh).

My sister and I have already decided NOT to renew our season tickets
for next year.

The one thing Canseco did that I really didn't like was last year's
"cheer me or trade me" ultimatum. at the time I posted that I felt
he had gone too far and they probably should trade him. That situation
blew over and wasn't a factor anymore.

IMHO this trade was made to soothe the egos of some of the A's players
who have been complaining for 2 years that Rickey and Jose get
special treatment. Jose was probably easier to trade or simply worth more
on the market currently than rickey. By trading Jose they are now telling
Carney Lansford, Willie Wilson and Tery Steinbach that their complaints
were being listened to, and nobody is different on the team. The problem
is Jose WAS different on the team, and so IS Rickey. Along with McGwire,
they were the only guys on the team capable of winning games virtually
single handedly when they were hot, with McGwire hurt, we have only 
Rickey left and he's either hurt or unhappy from watching him limp
around the last couple of games.

Trading Canseco is not the problem for me, its when they traded him,
what they got for him, and why IMHO they traded him that bothers me.

I still will root for them to win it all, but it won't bother me 
quite as much if they don't win it.




Russ Smith
*******************************************************************************
The amount of time spent brushing and flossing your teeth is inversely
proportional to how recent your last dental appointment was.
********************************************************************************




Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: rstimets@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (robert and stimets)
Subject: Re: Reardon, Clark traded from the Sox?
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 18:04:06 GMT

In article <37382@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> demers@cs.ucsd.edu (David DeMers) writes:
>In article <farenebt.715008087@craft.camp.clarkson.edu> farenebt@craft.camp.clarkson.edu (Bri Farenell) writes:
>>I was told that Jeff Reardon also cleaned out his locker and I've heard
>>no official trade of him either. Any more on that Bostonians?
>
>Well, I'm not a Bostonian (though I might be in a year...) 
>Today's (8/28) LA Times has a blurb in the baseball section
>that Reardon will be going to the Braves - I don't have the
>paper in front of me, but recall that it was discussing the
>Cone deal and was a throwaway line & sounded like it was
>98% a done deal (which, of course, is not a done deal at all...).
>No mention of who would go back to Boston.  (Please, not
>Keith Mitchell!)
>
Maybe they'd be willing to take Terry Pendleton!

RStimets

   GO REDS! BARRY LARKIN IS THE BEST SHORTSTOP ANYWHERE! GREG SWINDELL FOR CY YOUNG!!
From: zappala@parc.xerox.com (Daniel Zappala)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: DAVID CONE TO BLUE JAYS
Date: 27 Aug 92 17:32:33 GMT
Article-I.D.: parc.1992Aug27.173233.29722
Reply-To: zappala@parc.xerox.com (Daniel Zappala)
Organization: Xerox PARC

In article <1992Aug27.165952.7055@leland.Stanford.EDU>, claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
> 
> I don't think it's a particular good deal if the Jays can't sign Cone.  From
> the Mets standpoint, they get two good third basemen, so I suppose this means
> they won't sign Magadan.

Sprague can also play first and catcher, as well as third, so there should
be room for him on the Mets.  I remember watching him play at Stanford,
as well as his first time up with the Jays, and I was impressed.  I think
the Mets made a good acquisition, although I'm still stunned they
traded Cone...

Daniel
From: frisbee@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov (frisbee)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Phillies Roster Moves
Date: 27 Aug 92 15:58:58 GMT
Article-I.D.: jpl-devv.1992Aug27.155858.17595
Distribution: na
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory (NASA)

The Phillies appear to have 26 players on their roster. I suspect
one of the following players was recently demoted. Any clues?

Lindeman
Millette
Pratt
Baller

		Thanks in advance
				frisbee@devvax.jpl.nasa.gov
From: steven@jaynes ( Steve Novak)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Managing in the AL
Date: 26 Aug 92 15:41:24 GMT
Organization: U S WEST Advanced Technologies

> = (Edward [Ted] Fischer) writes:
>> = ( Steve Novak) writes:

>>Pitchers hitting, IMO, adds strategy not 
>>present when some (usually) aging one-dimensional player is the 10th man 
>>in the lineup.

>If you say so.  But the DH *does* increase offense, and I don't
>understand how you can deny it.

OK, I don't deny it :).

I guess a better way to put it is, a .250 hitter that can't field increases
offense somewhat, but IMO not enough to justify what seems to _me_ the more
exciting strategy and the "unknown" when pitchers hit.  Pitchers are not
automatic outs.

OK, Ted - maybe you can help me again.  What's the aggregate ERA and runs
scored for the American and National Leagues?



-- 
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
| Steve Novak |    |"Wacker the K"| 
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
steven@advtech.USWest.Com
From: paula@koufax.cv.hp.com (Paul Andresen)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Ugliest Man in Baseball??
Date: 4 Sep 92 19:19:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: hpcvaac.1992Sep4.191900.3872
Distribution: usa
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA

In article <1887irINN1j9@hal.com>, dougm@hal.com (Doug Moran) writes:
|> In article <67482@hydra.gatech.EDU>, gt4534b@prism (JARRIO,MARTIN MICHAEL) writes:
|> There are plenty of goofy looking players -- Walt Weiss, Mark McGwire
|> (before the beard), Jose Uribe, Juan Berenger (who looks like he's
|> storing basketballs under his uniform shirt), John Kruk (what *is* it
|> with that nose, anyway?), Jack Clark (who clearly thinks that one
|> eyebrow is sufficient), Will Clark -- but few are actually *ugly*.

Oh, I don't know. I think McGwire looks a lot goofier *with* the goatee. 

One name I haven't seen mentioned yet is Jeff Blauser. He looks ready-made
to star in an Our Gang comedy.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
              If you're really hip, the passing years will show.
                                           ......Tower Of Power

  paula@koufax.cv.hp.com   Paul Andresen  Hewlett-Packard  (503)-750-3511

    home: 3006 NW McKinley    Corvallis, OR 97330       (503)-752-8424
                            A SABR member since 1979
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: Trading Deadline
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 05:48:16 GMT

In article <1992Aug28.052132.19388@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> rrodabau@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Ronald D Rodabaugh) writes:

>     After the deadline, though, each player that a team wishes to trade must 
>clear waivers. This is a particularly dangerous proposition, for any player 
>placed on a waivers list is fair game to be picked up by any other team in the 
>league, with half of the player's salary being paid by the team he was placed 
>on waivers by.

Close, but not quite.  The players are placed on revocable waivers, so if any
team tries to pick them up, the waiver will be revoked.

===============================================================================
GO CALIFORNIA ANGELS!
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)
From: Gerry Hobbs
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Lies, Damn Lies, & Statistics (was Re: The Monthly Cecil Fielder Thread
Date: 3 Sep 92 19:18:24 GMT
Reply-To: hobbs@cs.wvu.wvnet.edu
Organization: WVU Department of Stat & Cs

In article <5440@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> genetic+@pitt.edu (Dr. Dave) writes:
>Thus spake 91287041@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard):
>>
>>  
This is a test
                       Gerry
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball,rec.sport.baseball.fantasy,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games