From: turk@tree.SAC.CA.US (Rob Turk (1-1-90))
Subject: Re:  guns
Organization: The UNIX Tree Public Access *ix  (916)349-0385 Sacramento, CA
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 03:42:52 GMT

In article <1992Dec12.172229.8404@usl.edu> das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A) writes:
>In article <70750,443-091292102338@3.10.7.22> 70750,443@cis.com (Spike) writes:
>>In article <1992Dec7.025656.15920@tree.SAC.CA.US>, turk@tree.SAC.CA.US (Rob
>>Turk (1-1-90)) wrote:
>>
>>> The reality is _most_ of those people obtained their weapons illegally.
>>> Criminals, by definition, do not follow the law.  The crime rates in our
>>> cities with the toughest gun laws [restrictions to bans] have the highest
>>> crime rates.  Violent crime rates.  A person should not be a vigilante.
>>> They should, if possible, use the gun for protection while waiting for the
>>> police.  During floods, earthquakes, and more, that response time can be
>>> catastrophic.  Sometimes they can not respond.  Give yourself the ability to
>>> protect yourself IF YOU HAVE TO.
>>
>>Okay, but how do you explain the fact that countries like Britain where
>>it is illegal for private citizens to own handguns experience lower 
>>violent crime rates and *far* fewer accidental shooting deaths each
>>year?
>
>A different ethos, perhaps.
>
  A completely different society.  Britain has the stability of a long
history.  Most of the people there have been there for vast generations.
There is a society to merge into.  The USA is a non-culture.  It is a
society of flux.  New people are always entering and expecting a stable
culture like they had in their old country.  The governments, for instance,
may change yearly but the people are pretty much the same.  In this country
the government remains the same but the people are always changing.  The USA
is getting too large for the Melting Pot to work.  People are beginning to
cling to their old cultures and are refusing to change.  It does not take
much change.  Things are becoming factionalized.  You do not go for a
consensus, you go for a coalition majority.  Change may be a bit misleading.  
There is nothing to change into, just a leaving of some things behind.  
  That change, though, is scary.  Those are just the surface differences
between here and other places in the world.  You have to realize the
differences cause friction.  
  The USA has higher violent crime rates when you take out the handguns and
other firearm statistics.  We do not just have higher rates of deaths by
guns, we have higher rates of death by violence.  The guns are not the
problem.  Criminals are the problem.  
  Spike is relating Britain's low violence statistics with lack of guns.  It
just is not so.  Per capita, it would be interesting if they do have lower
accidental death rates by guns.  
  Criminals, though, are just different in different countries.  In Italy
the mafia is busy killing judges and investigators.  In this country the
mafia takes a different tact in most circumstances.  In this country,
though, the criminals are not always so organized and will kill you if you
are a witness.  It is hard not to be a witness.

If everybody had an Amiga 4000 they would be too busy to commit crime.

>>Spike
>-- 
>Dan Stephenson                                                 das9674@usl.edu  
>"There once was a Lady from Hyde/who ate some bad apples and died/but while we
>lamented/the apples fermented/making cider inside her inside!" 
>                        -Member of the Court, Texas Renaissance Festival  


-- 
  Robert M. Turk                           turk@tree.sac.ca.usa  
  @ the UNIX Tree BBS, Sacramento, CA      ucbvax!ucdavis!csusac!tree!turk 
              "A Q-tip is a swab, Leo is a Schwab." --Harv Laser            
           DISCLAIMER: These opinions are ONLY mine so get your own!
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy