From: barrey@whocares.not.me (Barrey Jewall)
Subject: Re: Guns and Abortion (was Re: A Means To Help Keep Change In Check)
Keywords: Guns, knives, ban, abortion
Organization: Novell, Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: 18 Nov 92 22:15:54 GMT

In <1992Nov18.065813.28381@cs.cornell.edu> elster@cs.cornell.edu 
(Anne C. Elster) writes:

>In article <1992Nov18.011740.29446@cs.tulane.edu> lang@cs.tulane.edu 
(Raymond Lang) writes:

>>In article <1e8vffINNmqm@gilligan.East.Sun.COM> mike@gilligan.East.Sun.COM 
(Mike Roncadori) writes:

>>>I just have a hard time believing that guns cause crime, 
>>>just by their presence.


>>You should read the interview with the man in Baton Rouge who blew
>>away a Japanese exchange student by mistake.

>>The mere
>>presence of the gun changed how he chose to handle the situation.


>I am not a big gun advocate, but the sad thing is that this
>happens also with weapons other than guns.

>Just this fall an aquaintance of mine was stabbed to death by some
>unknown local highschool students on the steps of the MIT librabry
>at 9pm on a Friday night. His friend was also stabbed, but survived.

>Unfortunately, gun-laws wouldn't have helped much. In fact, had the
>kids had guns, they might realize using them would be more fatal and
>not ending up killing, but then again, who knows ... the truely evil
>will always be evil. (BTW, I don't *really* believe that guns would
>have helped!)

My condolences go out to you, I almost lost a friend to a mugger about
a year ago, so I know where you're coming from.

Guns in the hands of the criminally-inclined certainly wouldn't
have helped that situation, unless your (unarmed) friends simply
gave in, and gave the criminals enough (money, whatever) to satisfy them.
This presumes that these particular criminals were just out for money,
and not interested in random acts of violence (not bloody likely!!)

Now, turn the situation around, and have your friends armed, carrying
concealed (purse, wallet, under jacket, etc). Assume your friends
have had proper training in the use of handguns.

The perpetrators approach your friends, pull out knives, and are promptly
shot by your friends (or held at bay, if your friends are slightly 
more concerned about shooting an armed criminal.) Either way, your friends
go home shaken, but probably uninjured.

Even though the above was a hypothetical issue, Concealed Carry is a 
LEGAL option in 47 states. Many do not advertise its availability, or
(illegally) place restrictions upon it, but it can be done.

>I admit to swinging back and forth on this issue.
>Like illegal drugs, I think we will prob. be better off keeping most
>weapons illegal -- i.e. the fewer available, the better.
>However, that does not mean I think a ban is even close to the solution
>of the problem! Possessing illegal weapons is also more likely to affect
>others than possessing drugs, until they start going hand-in-hand ...

I will have to disagree with you on this matter. Most legal drugs
kill more people each year than all the illegal drugs put together.
Education is the answer here, and tolerance. Criminal behavior should
be punished strongly. (obviously, I don't think most "recreational"
drugs should be criminalized.) Violent crime is a much more pressing
issue. 

If we released from prison most of those serving time for drug 
possession/use/dealing only, we'd be able to impose real LIFE 
sentances on those convicted of violent crimes. (a "real" life
sentance is one from which the perpetrator doesn't leave the prison, 
except in a box!!)

This would put a hell of a dent in the recidivism rate for violent crime.

>In my absurd moments (like 2am in the morning) I see this as a parallel
>to my stance on abortion. I don't really think they are great -- would
>probably never have one since I'll try to make sure I never need one,
>but do not think banning abortions is solving the real problem -- people
>having un-wanted kids. The underlying problem (better sex-ed, free
>and better/more convenient contraceptives, etc) needs to be addressed
>first .... Admittedly I feel stronger about a woman's right to choose
>over peoples right to bear arms, but that's another story ...

I feel fairly strongly about both issues, however, being male, I think
that I have stronger feelings about the protection of the Second
Amendment than on the abortion question.

That being said, they both derive from the basic tenets of the Bill of Rights:
That citizens should be able to run their lives with minimal government
interference. Unfortunately, this just ain't the case today.

>				Night-rambles from 
>						Anne C. Elster

More incessant babbling from BArrey 
BAh
--
+ Barrey Jewall - Network  Admin.++  and yea, though I walk through the shadow 
+ barrey@novell.com	         ++ of death, I shall fear no evil, for I am
+ Novell, Inc.- San Jose, Calif. ++ the meanest sonofabitch in the valley...
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