HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dwjz@bnr.ca (Doug Zolmer)
Subject: Re: Emblems, names and meanings...
Reply-To: dwjz@bnr.ca (Doug Zolmer)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 16:00:31 GMT

> The Japanese logos are all SO unimaginative:  I think Subaru and Mazda are the
> only two that have any badge other than the first initial of the company.  

Toyota's blurb "I love what you do for me" is truly bizarre.  Who is 
`I' and `me'?  Toyota?  So it really means "I (Toyota) love what you
(the customer) do for me (e.g., make Toyota wealthy)".  Maybe `I' amd `me' 
is the customer and `you' is Toyota?  So it could mean "I (me) love what
you (Toyota) do for me (e.g., sell me a car)".  Sheesh!  A logo
that puts words into the customer's mouth!  Who is their marketing firm?  
Goofy?

Japanese:

Acura - "Precision crafted performance" 
Honda - they don't have a blurb!
Infinit - they don't have a blurb!
Lexus - "The relentless pursuit of perfection"
Mazda - "It just feels right"
Nissan - "It's time to expect more from a car" or
         "It's time to expect more from a minivan"
Suzuki - "Ask anyone who owns one" 
Toyota - "I love what you do for me" - Sheesh!

American:

Buick - "The new symbol for quality in America"
Cheverlot Trucks - "Like a rock"
Chrysler - "Advantage: Chrysler"
Eagle - "Not intended for the general public"
Ford - "Have you driven a Ford... lately?" or
       "Quality is job 1. It's working"
Geo - "Get to know Geo"
Jeep - "There's only one Jeep"
Oldsmobile - "The power of intelligent engineering"
Saturn - "A different kind of company. A different kind of car"

Misc:

Army - "Be all you can be" - how'd that get in here!
BMW - "The ultiimate driving machine"
Volvo - "Drive safely"

Anybody want to add more to the list?
-- 
dwjz@bnr.ca    Disclaimer: my opinions only  
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.tech
From: bqueiser@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Brian J Queiser)
Subject: Re: What is the resonable oil comsumption?
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 20:25:23 GMT

kenny@osf.org (Kenneth Crudup) writes:

>I've got a turbocharged Ford 2.3L I4 that seems to use a lot of oil, I
>haven't measured it, but I'd figure about a qt. every Kmi or so.
>
>Anyone else with this experience?

I hope to have it soon.  I'm still looking for an XR4.  :^)

My 3.0L V6 burns a qt. every 2.0-2.5K in the city, much less on the
highway.  It's got 91,000 miles on it now.

Are you using synthetic, Kenny?  Weren't/Aren't you the one getting
16mpg on the highway?  BTW, is the mailing list still up?  I had
something bounce twice.  It's merkurlist@pcad.UUCP, right?

Regards,

Brian

bqueiser@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am the engineer, I can choose K.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Department of Engineering Mechanics
Ohio State University
Columbus, OH
Xref: sparky rec.autos:30711 rec.autos.tech:17244
From: rambler@pnet51.orb.mn.org (Dan Meyer)
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.tech
Subject: Re: What is the resonable oil comsumption?
Date: 30 Dec 92 00:45:02 GMT
Organization: People-Net [pnet51], Minneapolis, MN.

gong@cbnewsc.cb.att.com (jiechen.james.gong) writes:
>I have a 68000 milse '86 190E/2.3.  It needs more than a quart of oil
>between 3000 miles oil change.  The compression test showing the
>engine is still like new.
>
>What is the your experience on the engine oil consumption for this
>car?  
>
>Thanks,
>James

For my money, you could buy a lot of oil for the money it will
cost to repair the oil leak or oil burning problem. as long as
your car doesn't smoke horribly, doesn't mix oil with other
fluids, and runs fine, leave well enough alone!

-- Dan Meyer

Remember: " Buffalo never Oink " Seen on a South Dakota travel brocure.
Advertisment: Try the Railway Post Office , a railfan BBS ! (612) 377-2197.
UUCP: {crash tcnet}!orbit!pnet51!rambler
INET: rambler@pnet51.orb.mn.org
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: jnielsen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John F Nielsen)
Subject: Re: Saturn's Allegedly "Noisy" Engine
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 01:19:01 GMT

In article <92364.11204332HEN4B@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU> Don Turnbull <32HEN4B@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU> writes:
>I don't know what you fellows had been driving before (with one
>
>exception), but I test drove a '92 sl2 yesterday with a friend.
>
>I have purposely not read any review, article, or info on the
>
>Saturn because it is a brand new company and word of mouth was good
>
>and I wanted to form my own opinion.  I saw these articles and I couldn't
>
>resist.
>
>  The car I drove was priced at 17,000+.  It was as noisy as my '83
>

Where did you get that price from? A Saturn for over 17K?? Are you
sure? 

john
-- 
John Nielsen   MAGNUS Consultant            ______   ______   __  __	
jnielsen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu         /\  __ \ /\  ___\ /\ \/\ \
                                           \ \ \/\ \\ \___  \\ \ \_\ \
  Back off man, I'm a Scientist!            \ \_____\\/\_____\\ \_____\
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: jimd@fraser.sfu.ca (Jim Davies)
Subject: Re: Chain Driven "New" Cars?
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 05:52:35 GMT

ce423@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Josh Lackey III) writes:



>I'm very impressed with everything about the new Dodge Intrepid,
>Eagle Vision, and Chrysler Concorde, i.e. overall design, quality
>of workmanship, features, etc.   From what I've seen and read,
>Chrysler will have great success with these entries.

>  The only thing that concerns me about these cars is how the transmission
>is linked to the gearbox. The engine is not tranverse mounted, but 
>longitudinally mounted which is fine. The car is front wheel driven,
>which is also OK. The transmission mounts to the back of the engine,
>and is very similar to the conventional front-engine/rear-wheel-driven
>design, but is linked to front gearbox using a chain. 

>  I'm wondering what the reliability of this design will be after say,
>50,000 miles, and am wondering if any other recent model front wheel driven
>cars have chains in the drive trains?  If so, how realiable have they
>been?

The chain in question looks *in pictures, havent actually held one*
like a Hy-Vo silent type, as used in lotsa transfer cases and the
original Toronado automatic *THM425* while this chain comes in 
variuos widths and pitches, all the above units had little or no
chain problems/ GM also uses this setup on THM 125, 440, 325 etc
auto trans. Some of these are pretty disposable, of course, but
look at the size of the chain *not to mention the other parts*
In other words, if Chrysler has sized this piece right, it wont
give any trouble *in pictures, it LOOKS big* IMHO, of course ;-)

Jim Davies
not into whips, but chains are OK
From: mills@athena.lkg.dec.com (George Mills)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: audi - luxo-lemons?
Date: 24 Dec 92 14:57:14 GMT
Distribution: rec

morton@gaul.csd.uwo.ca (Brent Morton) writes:

>It must depend on your locale -- I've had a muffler system and a brake job 
>done (not at the dealership) on my 4000. The muffler job was less than half
>of your figure, and the brake job about 75%. In Canadian dollars.

First mine was a quatro which can make a big difference in parts prices.

Second comparing non-dealer price to dealer is improper. Since any
brand car can go to non-dealer for cheaper price. I use dealer prices
as a basis.

Third even at half that price it still about two times to much.

It's not like it's staneless steel or anything. It's all got to do
with volume of parts. I asked Midas why is this muffler so much.
He said there just isn't that many quatro's around. He said see that
car there (pointing to a camaro) that muffler is $25.00. See that car
(pointing to an IROC-Z) it's a slightly bigger muffler but it's a
$125.00. Then pointed at my car and said $400.00 (it was right then
I decided I'm buying a car with $25.00 muffler next time, I have kid
to put through college).

I generally would never go to midas, but I just could not believe
the dealer price. But local shops and Midas had to pay big bucks
for even the after market parts. The savings were only 20% so I stuck
with the dealer and genuine parts. The labor was minimal the parts
dominated everything.
From: howp@skyfox
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Deathknell
Date: 22 DEC 92 00:44:40 GMT
Organization: University of Saskatchewan
NNTP-Posting-Host: sask.usask.ca

Well, it looks like the struggling Japanese economy struck a possible death
blow to (-sob-) the OX-99-11.  From my memory at the newsstand:
   - it was from this month's Motor Trend mag (the one with the nifty
     Camaro hologram on the cover)
   - the OX-99-11 is delayed until after 1994
   - The price (if eventually sold) will still be pegged at about US$ 800,000
   - Damn, I still can't afford one...

Peter How, Gradual Studies
how@skisas.usask.ca
howp@sask.usask.ca
*****************************************************************************
                             wit's end
*****************************************************************************
From: leonglaw@hpsgm2.sgp.hp.com (Lawrence LEONG)
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 01:18:10 GMT
Subject: Re: Integra handles like pig on skates - what tires to get?
Organization: HP Singapore
Newsgroups: rec.autos

In rec.autos, jmh@Turing.ORG (Jeffrey M. Hoffmeister) writes:

> In article <1992Dec31.044955.24956@tc.cornell.edu> eacj@theory.TC.Cornell.EDU (Julian Vrieslander) writes:
> >Sorry if this is FAQ material, but I have not been monitoring rec.autos or
> >the car mags recently.
> >
> >My 88 Acura Integra has just about chewed through its original Michelin MXV
> >tires.  I was utterly unimpressed with these tires.  The steering response
> >on dry surfaces was slow and squishy, with little warning near the breakaway
> >point.  Traction in rain and snow was terrible.  Scary even.

My admiration for putting up with this for 4 years.  I'll bet you were a
really safe driver :-)

> >
> My better half has a '90 Integra and almost IMMEDIATELY after delivery removed
> the michelins in favor  of a BETTER handling tire, that tire of choice was
> a Yokahama A509, although these wont last nearly as long as the Michelins
> they will preform much better on wet roads.  Also the Yokahamas have a "knappy"
> tread design and you may notice a little more tire noise.
>
>
> Good Luck
> Jeff
>

I'd second the choice.  I fitted A-509's after the Goodyear gatorbacks
(original 5rib) wore out -- I bought the car with these tyres.  Compared to
the goodyears, the handling was better, breakaway was more gradual (rather
than the sudden breakaway with the goodyears), less propensity to skid in wet
(despite the goodyear being over-hyped as a rain-tyre), and more quiet!  In
fact, a friend wanted to know what tyres I had fitted, the noise level was
lower than his new expensive Michelins (car was a '90 Civic).

BTW, the A-509 has a treadwear index of 160, the Michelin 320 (I think).  Even
if you don't quite trust these numbers, the disparity does point to a much
harder Michelin.


An alternative is the Dunlop D60M2 (forget the -A2 version) or Falken FK06G.
All these 3 are about the same price -- at least over here -- and offer the
same performance.  The D60M2 and FK06G are unidirectional for what it's worth.

Good Luck
Lawrence

p.s.  Check out the Oct/Nov issue of an Aussie car mag (can't remember the
      title) where they did a comprehensive test of 185/60 H-rated tyres.  
      Is this the tyre size you're looking for?

Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.tech
From: yavo@sdosrv1.gvl.unisys.com (Steve Yavorski)
Subject: Re: Car Insurance
Organization: Paramax Systems, Ivyland, PA
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 20:44:37 GMT

In article <BzpwKL.104@news.udel.edu> iseman@ravel.udel.edu (Stephen Early) writes:
>>Darcy,
>>	You might look into coverages provided by Erie Insurance Co.
>>and USAA.  Please heed the advice of another correspondent in this
>>thread and drop unneeded coverages like medical, uninsured, tow
>                                                  ^^^^^^^^^^
>>truck, along with raising deductables.
>>
>
>Last time I checked, uninsured coverage is required by law in all states.  
                      ^^^^^^^^^                                ^^^
Wrong!!!!

You can reject this coverage in Pennsylvania, at least.

Steve

Stephen Yavorski			internet - yavo@ivy.paramax.com
NEXRAD Integration			phone    - (215) 443 - 7500
Paramax Systems Corporation
Ivyland, Pennsylvania
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: goble@hardy.u.washington.edu (Brian Goble)
Subject: Want info/opinions on '92 Toyota MR2 Turbo
Keywords: MR2 Turbo Opinions
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 22:39:55 GMT

There is something about the MR2 Turbo that has really peaked my interest.
I just have this "picture" of driving down the Coast on some twisty road
with my SO to a quiet little bed-and-breakfast.

The car sounds like it is VERY fun to drive (I've never been in one or
driven one) and the '92 sounds like it has some good suspension
improvements as well as faster 0-60 times.

I'm 5' 10.5" so I don't think the small cabin would be a problem for
me.  Can you still use the car to go to the grocery store and bring back
3 (how 'bout 4) bags of groceries?

Even though I love my '88 Supra Turbo, there is something about the little
MR2 that has me thinking about getting one a lot lately.  (specifically
a white one, 5spd, turbo).

Thanks for any info/opinions/advice/warnings/etc.!

-Brian Goble


-- 
 ==)------------
               Brian Goble    |    goble@hardy.u.washington.edu
               "Finishing a close second means you didn't win."
                                                              ------------(==
From: jdm@sequent.com (Jeff Maurer)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Subaru Legacy??
Date: 29 Dec 92 22:53:05 GMT
Article-I.D.: sequent.1992Dec29.225305.7882
Distribution: na
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.

tut@cairo.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill "Bill" Tuthill) writes:

>In today's news reports about Isuzu abandoning the US passenger car market,
>there is speculation that Subaru and Alfa Romeo will be next.  There were
>even rumors that Volkswagon could quit the US market by the end of decade.
>The cars themselves seem to bear this out.  In my view, any manufacturer
>that continues delivering motorized seatbelts with no airbag in a product
>costing over $12k does not take the US market seriously.

>As far as AWD goes, my opinion is that it's not worth it.  The principal
>handling problem on snow and ice is braking, and AWD does not help there.
>AWD might provide marginal traction advantages under some conditions, but
>it lowers performance and fuel economy, and is just another thing to go
>wrong.  For off-road driving and snow plowing, you need high clearance
>and low range, which Audi/Subaru/Porsche don't provide.  In short, either
>get ABS to help stop under bad conditions, or get a serious 4WD vehicle
>such as the Jeep Grand Cherokee or Ford Explorer.

I have to agree with the first point.  The mousetraps were enough of a
consideration to me that I didn't want to buy the car initially.  I think
the airbag becomes standard for '93, but the motorized belts are going to
be around for at least another year.

I used to agree with the AWD comment too, until we bought a Legacy.  AWD
is much more of a plus than you might think.  I've owned a number of front
and rear wheel drive cars, and the Legacy is radically better on snow and ice.
It is also much more predictable in everyday conditions - like dealing with
standing water on the freeway.

Sure, if you're really serious about 4-wheeling, you wouldn't choose a Subaru.
On the other hand, how many people do you see on the freeway, doing their daily
commute alone in a Range Rover/Land Cruiser/Grand Cherokee?  What's the point?  
10-15mpg and lots of clearance, for what?  An occasional trip to the mountains?

The Subaru seems like a better choice for this kind of driving.

================================================================================            _
            /        Jeff Maurer, Sr. Analyst
     _  ___/ _ __   Service Applications, Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.
     / /  / / / /  Uucp: ...!uunet!sequent!jdm
    / /__/_/   /  Internet: jdm@sequent.com
 __/             (503) 578-5062
"I say hurl.
 If you blow chunks and she comes back to you, then she's yours.
 If you spew and she bolts, it was never meant to be."  Wayne
From: root@acpy01.att.com (System Administrator(CXNIXCN1))
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: CAMRY V6 performance numbers
Date: 22 Dec 92 21:37:42 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: AT&T IMS - Piscataway, NJ (USA)

Here is my story.
I am looking for a solid car with some "sport sedan" characteristics.

The requirements are:
1. Reliability (got to get to work every day)
2. 6 cyl
3. Comfort (good front seats)
4. Solid construction (assembly quality)
5. Price ( around $20.000)

So far CAMRY LE V6 looks like the best value for the money.
The question is the handling of the car.
Back in August (I can be wrong) of '92 MOTOR TREND had a 
comparison report on ACCORD EX vs. CAMRY GXE, they also tested
CAMRY LE V6.
Camry was better than Accord in every category except handling.
The numbers for Accord were .79g and for Camry .78g.
But when they tested CAMRY LE V6 the said, and I quote
"CAMRY V6 performs better then Lexus ES300, BMW525..." and some others
in acceleration, braking, handling etc.
The numbers were: .84g for handling, 8.6 for 0-60mph etc.
                  -----------------
These numbers would make it an excellent value for $20.000.

But other sources of information do not conform these numbers.
So, if anybody out there tested CAMRY LE V6 would you please 
share your experiences with me. Handling being the key.
I would like to look at it from "fun to drive" point of view,
comparing in to Maxima SE, and even as a low cost alternative to 525i.


P.S. I know about CAMRY SE, but because of limited supply prices
     are sky high, so forget that one.
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: nau@quesadilla.ssesco.com (William Nau)
Subject: Re: Lincoln Mirror For Sale
Organization: SSESCO
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 00:39:10 GMT

In article <1992Dec30.212616.26653@fuug.fi> an1060@anon.penet.fi writes:
>X-Anon-To: rec.autos
>
>Hello,
>
>I have a passenger's side view mirror for a 1987 (may fit other years) Lincoln
>Continental...
>
>New From Dealer is over $220....  I ask $120 or best offer...

Yea and one from a junk yard is $30.
William R. Nau
Supercomputer Systems Engineering and Services Company (SSESCO)
511 11th Avenue South, Suite 216
Minneapolis, Minnesota 55415-1536
(612) 342-0003

nau@SSESCO.com
From: jsecinor@sw.stratus.com (John Secinore)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Mercury Villager
Date: 28 Dec 92 20:22:13 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: unicorn.ts.stratus.com

The hoses that were cut happened to be fuel tank filler hoses. I had the recall
on my '93 Villager done last Wednesday.
-- 
+------------------------------------------------------+
|  John Secinore   |  jsecinor@unicorn.ts.stratus.com  |
+------------------------------------------------------+
|	This space intentionally left blank.           |
+------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: goudreau@batman.rtp.dg.com (Bob Goudreau)
Subject: Re: Car phones
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 16:34:27 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Data General Corporation, RTP, NC

In article <1992Dec22.122412.28101@mips2.ma30.bull.com> K.Buck@ma30.bull.com writes:
>>doesn't require the use of hands to use - 
>
> i'm all in favor of that, but let's add "PLEASE make sure its a model
> that doesn't require the use of a BRAIN to use"...
> in my opinion, phone conversations risk devoting too much attention
> from the task of driving, even with hands-free operation.

So I trust that you also never engage in driver-passenger conversation
while in a moving vehicle?  And if you do, please explain the
fundamental difference between that and hands-free phone use.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob Goudreau			Data General Corporation
goudreau@dg-rtp.dg.com		62 Alexander Drive	
+1 919 248 6231			Research Triangle Park, NC  27709, USA
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: sukenick@sci.ccny.cuny.edu (SYG)
Subject: Re: where to buy a CLUB for my car
Organization: City College of New York - Science Computing Facility
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 15:28:20 GMT

>>useless security device!  (Even more useless than car alarms)
>It makes a fine "security device" if you have a strong right arm and
>know how to use it. Assuming you didn't bring a club to a gun fight,

Well, that use can also come from a tire iron;  but the
club might be better in that respect since it probably has
greater reach.

If you buy that thing,  buy it as "insurance for the deductable";
they do say that they'll pay your deductable, no? 
Anyone know if they make good on this promise ?

Too bad you cannot respond on the radio as in netnews.
The other day, in an ad for the club, they ask:
"do you know of any car that was stolen using the club"

YES!

(don't know the cars owner though)
From: esl_manager@gimme.uh.edu ()
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Saturn's Allegedly "Noisy" Engine
Date: 30 Dec 1992 21:45:04 GMT
Organization: University of Houston
Distribution: world
Reply-To: esl_manager@gimme.uh.edu ()
NNTP-Posting-Host: gimme.cc.uh.edu


Don Turnbull,

What options did you ask for to jack the price of an SL2 to $17K?
Note that the base price of the SL2, 5-speed is only $11,4995.
I calculated the total, together with option-package1, leather seats, 
sun-roof, ABS with 4 disk-brakes and cruise ctrl; and it came out to be
around $15K. 
I am actually looking around for a Saturn as well. Please let me know
what other options you have included.

--
Arthur

Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: goudreau@batman.rtp.dg.com (Bob Goudreau)
Subject: Re: Car phones
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 92 15:36:33 GMT
Organization: Data General Corporation, RTP, NC.

In article <92358.114600SROWELL@ESOC.BITNET> <SROWELL@ESOC.BITNET> writes:
> In the UK, use of a car phone while driving is illegal. The law may
> be an ass, but in this case it's a sensible one!

At first glance, this would appear obvious.  However a while ago I
recall reading a newspaper story describing a recent study (done by
the US DOT, or some such federal agency, I believe) on the use of
car phones in the US.  The people running the study were surprised
to discover no statistically significant difference between the
accident rates of drivers using phones and those not using them.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob Goudreau			Data General Corporation
goudreau@dg-rtp.dg.com		62 Alexander Drive	
+1 919 248 6231			Research Triangle Park, NC  27709, USA
From: dbernard@clesun.Central.Sun.COM (Dave Bernard)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Volkswage EuroVAN?
Date: 31 Dec 1992 21:00:52 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Distribution: world
Reply-To: dbernard@clesun.Central.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: clesun.central.sun.com

Anyone have any exprience with these, or any idea what 
their reliability would be like?  I haven't read any
road tests yet....
	Dave
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: pjh@mccc.edu (Pete Holsberg)
Subject: Re: Advertising fee and holdback for Probe
Organization: The College On The Other Side Of Route One
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 16:48:27 GMT

In article <1hpladINNa9p@early-bird.think.com> rpalmer@Think.COM (Ralph Palmer) writes:
=I have relatives that have worked in the car business ranging from
=selling used cars, new cars and in the leasing scam.
                                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^
I'm interested in hearing more about this!