HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mycroft@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Charles Hannum)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Date: 6 Sep 92 17:24:22 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: /etc/organization


In article <1992Sep3.195809.7692@hilbert.cyprs.rain.com>
max@hilbert.cyprs.rain.com (Max Webb) writes:
>
> So, Karen, how about it? If you and your nice christian clique were
> beaten with a lead pipe, your eyes gouged, your cars firebombed, and
> you were fired from your job, and evicted from your residence for
> being straight, and saw the Cops doing exactly *zip* about it over
> and over again, what would you do? I'll bet you would try to organize
> a straight-rights movement.

(First of all, I'm not Karen, and I'm not Christian.)

If *I* were going to organize a movement to deal with crime, I would
try to do it without being myself prejudiced.  Equating a "gay rights"
movement with "fighting crime against gays" specifically ignores the
bigotry and hatred that comes from some gays, and in many cases has
made it worse.  (For example, have you ever read "Attitude!"?  I'm
curious just how many gays actually believe that crap.)

-- 
 \   Charles Hannum, mycroft@ai.mit.edu
 /\  White heterosexual atheist male (WHAM) pride!
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.kibology,alt.business.multi-level
From: noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring)
Subject: Re: Pythagorean Reform Church
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 92 00:20:14 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

In article lfoard@Turing.ORG (Lawrence C. Foard) writes:
>In article ednclark@kraken.itc.gu.edu.au (Jeffrey Clark) writes:

>>>With the divine guidance of 4 I am starting the Pythagorean Reform
>>>church to spread the Gospel far and wide. With the guidance of 4
>>>I hope we can soon bring the message to the world over the PBN
>>>(Pythagorean Broadcasting Network).

>>Oh, all mighty representative of the supreme 4, please give FOURth your
>>learned wisdom to a FOURthright sinner who has been eating beans since 
>>early childhood (original sin?). I repent of my irrational ways and realise
>>I can never live up to the supreme example set by your WHOLEly self.
>>FOURgive me!! unFOURtunately there are many unbeleivers in this continent of
>>which I cannot be more ashamed. Could I also, most WHOLEly one, ask that you
>>allow me, a most unworthy subject, the right to spread your gospel in this
>>dark land. (i.e. How much of tithe do you want so I can still live on the
>>donations to the church under the guise of a social service).

>Yes now you can have the best of both worlds. Gain followers to the
>one true religion while earning money, with our new "get rich fast"
>from network spiritual marketing!
>
>You recieve 25% of all donations you collect, and 12.5% of all donations by
>followers you convert and so on. Join now to get in on at the top of the
>best MLM business in history!  



                                     :^)




-- 
=============================================================================
| Jon Noring          | noring@netcom.netcom.com | "The dogs bark, but the  |
| JKN International   | IP    : 192.100.81.100   |  caravan moves on."      |
| 1312 Carlton Place  | Phone : (510) 294-8153   | "Pack your lunch, sit in |
| Livermore, CA 94550 | V-Mail: (510) 862-1101   |  the bushes, and watch." |
=============================================================================
"If your annual income today is $50,000, you have the same buying power as
the average coal miner did in 1949, adjusted for taxes and inflation," John
Sestina, nationally recognized Certified Financial Planner;  quoted in 1987.
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Humanism
From: dcs@witsend.uucp (D. C. Sessions)
Date: 3 Sep 92 06:08:20 GMT
Organization: Nobody but me -- really
X-Mailer: TMail version 1.04

In <1992Aug31.183510.29615@newsgate.sps.mot.com>, weaver@chdasic.sps.mot.com (Dave Weaver)  wrote:
# Does not the frequency and severity of mankinds mistreatment of his 
# fellow man cause you to consider that there may, in fact, be something
# inherently wrong with the character of humankind?
# 
# The fact that there are many who devote time, energy, and resources for the
# service of those less fortunate does not necessarily lead to the conclusion
# that corruption of character is not present. Were the Carnegie libraries 
# an example of altruism or of an old man's attempt to justify the profits from 
# years of labor exploitation?
# 
# That mankind naturally tends toward selfishness, greed, jealousy, physical 
# and verbal violence (visiting any preschool should provide sufficient empirical
# evidence) leads me to conclude that there is an inherent character deficiency
# in humankind. Do not misunderstand, I am not saying that people are as corrupt
# as they can possibly be, just that we are all sufficiently corrupt in our 
# natures that the above characteristics are rather inevitable. 

  Depends on what you call a 'defect'.  Humans have the capacity for
  several traits such as agression, acquisitiveness, lust, and so forth.
  Each of these can be *misapplied* for any of several reasons, but most
  often from insufficient consideration.  OTOH, they are also powerful
  survival attributes and thus hardly 'defects'.

  The only way to be sure of never misapplying these attributes is to
  first think things through completely -- which requires both unlimited
  data and unlimited cogitation.  That, or resign from the world.
  Sadly, I can't think of mortal soul who can manage the first strategy.

---
--- D. C. Sessions                            Speaking for myself ---
--- Note new network address:                dcs@witsend.tnet.com ---
--- There never was any correspondence between my views and SCI's ---
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
From: m23364@mwunix (James Meritt)
Subject: Re: There are two years left!
Organization: MITRE Corporation, McLean VA
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 16:16:47 GMT

In article <68019@hydra.gatech.EDU> rpitts@emperor.gatech.edu (Richard Pitts) writes:
}In article <1992Sep10.201909.7519@linus.mitre.org> m23364@mwunix (James Meritt) writes:
}.In article <67967@hydra.gatech.EDU> rpitts@emperor.gatech.edu (Richard Pitts) writes:
}.}In article <1992Sep10.132606.22060@linus.mitre.org> m23364@mwunix (James Meritt) writes:
}.}|In article <67893@hydra.gatech.EDU> rpitts@emperor.gatech.edu (Richard Pitts) writes:
}.}|}In article <1992Sep9.164331.15457@linus.mitre.org> m23364@mwunix (James Meritt) writes:
}.}|}-In article <67872@hydra.gatech.EDU> rpitts@emperor.gatech.edu (Richard Pitts) writes:
}.}|}-}In article <1992Sep8.195107.8340@linus.mitre.org> m23364@mwunix (James Meritt) writes:
}.}|}-}|In article <67831@hydra.gatech.EDU> rpitts@emperor.gatech.edu (Richard Pitts) writes:
}.}|}-}|}In article <1992Sep8.172736.1879@linus.mitre.org> m23364@mwunix (James Meritt) writes:
}Again, since you seem to think I am blind, CLEARLY STATE YOUR TRUTH MR. MERITT.

Since I have three times, in stand-alone sentences, and once even labeled
as such, the rest of us can take that as my proof-by-demonstration.

}Let me ask you this question, Mr. Meritt, HOW HOW HOW do you know the
}end came, since according to you all that saw it have left?  Obviously,
}you lump yourself into the unworthy bunch, since you are still here.

I did it myself.  I'm God.  Didn't you know that?  If you don't agree, I
extend to you the same challenge as last year: prove I'm not.

Didn't then.

}.}|Pointing has done no good.  You see nothing but the end of the finger.
}.}
}.}Maybe your pointing is VERY AMBIGUOUS.  You in this discussion assert that
}.}the end has come and we missed it, because we aren't worthy - I did even
}.}declare someone's worth, but pointed out that the return will be visible.
}.}
}.}Since it appears I am a little slow/dense to you, could you state your
}.}point - I've missed it.
}.
}.It is in this post.  Try again.
}
}Here are the initial quote you made
}
}      "Bad news.  The end of the world came and went.  NONE of you are worthy!"
}
}and the reply to the verses I quoted
}
}      "And you MISSED it!!!!"
}
}and here is your reply to my counter reply
}
}    "To a blind man, though something is visible it will not be seen.  And there
}     appear to be many blind to THE WAY here - including you, apparently."
}
}Which of these is your point.  You are telling me I am blind to something
}and I am offering Scriptural responses.  My responses say that the end will
}not be secrect, but visible and this is not dependent upon one's worthiness.

None of those.  Why not include the sentence I labelled as it?

}Explain, to we unlearned, the application of "YOUR viewpoint isn't special"
}to this discussion.

Here I notice that you saw but did not see.  _THAT_ was my point.  The
application?  You may think that it is YOUR end, but it really doesn't
hold much applicability to others.
From: ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: JW humor
Date: 5 Sep 92 02:24:59 GMT
Followup-To: talk.religion.misc
Organization: Apple

In article <1992Sep2.180742.12599@cs.joensuu.fi>, asiivo@cs.joensuu.fi
(Antti Siivonen) wrote:
> 	OK, tell me what illogical statements I've recently done ?

From a recent posting:
Q:What qualifies you as a biologist?  I think I know more biology than
you do from the quality of your postings!

A:	I wouldn't say it to you normally, but when I was a bit rude to you, I
>	can say it: It's a question of realizing. I KNOW a lotta facts, but 
>	evolutionists know, too. You should have a holistic view. I have 
>	identified skins in museum and I know it's a hard job, because 
>	a plant, an animal belongs to its environment. I'm a biologist, because
>	when I see a field, I can expect to find certain forms of life there, 
>	it's experience. And when you get experience, you know on your own the
>	principles how does things work there in the nature. 

Cheers!
Kent
Xref: sparky talk.religion.misc:15767 talk.abortion:35354
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,talk.abortion
Subject: An addition to the family!
From: adams@spss.com (Steve Adams)
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 21:34:07 GMT
Organization: SPSS Inc.


To the usual suspects here in these groups:

I and my wife Chris are proud to anounce the arrival of Joshua Stephen
Adams at 7:52 AM on Saturday, Sept. 5,  Joshua weighed in at 8lbs and 14oz,
and was 20.5 inches long.  Mom and baby are doing fine, and came home this
morning (Sunday).  Joshua joins Matthew 3 1/2 and Michael 2 in our
household.

So, if I'm lax in responding, never fear, it just means one of my kids
needs attention!  I'll be away from the office for a week...but hopefully
not away from the net...

 -Steve
--
 The opinions expressed above are those of the author and not SPSS, Inc.
                        -------------------
     adams@spss.com                           Phone: (312) 329-3522
     Steve Adams                              Fax:   (312) 329-3558
Organization: Masters student, Information Networking Institute, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.atheism
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 11:50:31 -0400 
From: Jad Nehme <jn1a+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Faith
	<dabrowsk.716082515@liveboard10>

	This discussion brings a question: How does one judge two theories that
 both are "logical" (go from axioms, go to the conclusions)?

-Jad
From: ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: What happened to Gavins' kill file
Date: 5 Sep 92 21:52:54 GMT
Followup-To: talk.religion.misc,alt.atheism
Organization: Apple

In article <dabrowsk.715629675@liveboard10>, dabrowsk@parc.xerox.com (Jarek
Dabrowski) wrote:
> KILL FILE: Usually, a file which contains names of impolite persons and
> a list of uninteresting subjects. In alt.atheism, a file which contains
> names of preachers (see: PREACH, 1-3). 

I don't personally think 'ostrich' style advice, such as placing
people in kill files, it the right solution for open criticism and
discussion about world views. In my humble opinion it is as bad
as deliberate censorship.

BTW, I don't use kill files.

Cheers,
Kent
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,talk.religion.newage
From: m23364@mwunix (James Meritt)
Subject: Re: There are two years left!
Organization: MITRE Corporation, McLean VA
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 17:48:37 GMT

In article <68191@hydra.gatech.EDU> rpitts@emperor.gatech.edu (Richard Pitts) writes:
}In article <1992Sep14.201052.16393@linus.mitre.org> m23364@mwunix (James Meritt) writes:
}|In article <68149@hydra.gatech.EDU> rpitts@emperor.gatech.edu (Richard Pitts) writes:
}|}In article <1992Sep14.161647.7312@linus.mitre.org> m23364@mwunix (James Meritt) writes:
}|}>In article <68019@hydra.gatech.EDU> rpitts@emperor.gatech.edu (Richard Pitts) writes:
}|}>}Let me ask you this question, Mr. Meritt, HOW HOW HOW do you know the
}|}>}end came, since according to you all that saw it have left?  Obviously,
}|}>}you lump yourself into the unworthy bunch, since you are still here.
}|}>
}|}>I did it myself.  I'm God.  Didn't you know that?  If you don't agree, I
}|}>extend to you the same challenge as last year: prove I'm not.
}|}
}|}Make the pencil on my office table write your name on the yellow pad
}|}on top of my printer.  The pad is blank and the pencil is sharp and has 
}|}an eraser, in case you make a mistake.  You are claiming to be an all
}|}powerful god, aren't you?
}|
}|Sorry, but I don't do parlor tricks any wore than that upstart faker Yahweh.
}|Don't you know that you are not support to tempt god?
}
}Good answer - however, what can you suggest I request that you do to
}prove you are god?  Could you try to get executed (via cruxifiction, if

Did.  Didn't you get the word?

}possible) for supposedly starting a insurrection (political move) and

Nah.  Unlike Yahweh, I am against mahem, genocide, murder, and such.  _I_
am a kind god!

}then on the third day be seen in a flesh and bone body which can 
}transcend matter (i.e., go through walls)?  Or what do you propose as

Like Dracula?

}your proof?

Same as Yahweh - hear me and believe!

}Oh, by the way, Yahweh considers the witness of His Son, Jesus the Christ,
}as the only sign we need - PEOPLE STILL DON'T BELIEVE EVEN THOUGH HE
}ROSE FROM THE DEAD, as he said they would not.

And how do you know this?  I suppose that this witness came to you and
directly witnessed.  Oh, He didn't.  How about the word of a direct witness?
Oh, none of those, either?  Well, THIS is better.  _I_ am telling you!
From: muehlhau@en.ecn.purdue.edu (John Muehlhausen)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Sean gets his reply (finally) [A.Johnson thread]
Date: 6 Sep 92 19:41:40 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

In article <1992Sep6.114904.7362@ac.dal.ca> hartigan@ac.dal.ca writes:
>I would be very interested to look more closely into Eastern Orthodox
>Christianity. What do you recommend?  
>
>p.s. John M, if you're reading this, does this count as an interest in
>Christianity, or does only Middle-American Protestantism deserve that name?
>I'm genuinely curious...

Surely!  Whatever turns your crank man... In fact I would say that my
understanding of God is more one of complete awe and reverence than the "pal"
you don't seem to find appealing.  God can (and does) present Himself in many
ways...  There are times that I think about the vastness of creation and the
immensity of !!!GOD!!! and I start crying at the thought of Him caring about
_me_.  Only such a perfectly immense God could have such a perfect love that
he would care about me enough to sacrifice His Son for my salvation.  The
implications of that act blow me away.  I cannot fully understand what God
did for me (or what Jesus death really meant on the spiritual plane), but I
know that He is guiding my life and helping me to love, which is the source
of such a pure joy that I can't really relate it.

You can chant with spoons up your nose while sitting in a bathtub full of
jello for all I care -- just accept Jesus back into your heart and life
PLEASE!  Don't do it for me -- DO IT FOR YOU!

John M.
From: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Stop thinking? (Was: Why I am an atheist)
Date: 15 Sep 92 19:03:58 GMT
Organization: Johns Hopkins University CS Dept.

In article <BuLC0w.28r@nntp-sc.Intel.COM> pharvey@mipos3.intel.com (Paul Harvey) writes:
>>So why didn't God make a world with the rule "sacrifices in ancient times,
>>no sacrifices now"?  What he really did, according to you, was make a world
>>where sacrifices were needed both then and now, and then kludge around the
>>latter by sending Jesus to get rid of the "now" part.  A rather roundabout
>>method.  Why didn't he just make the world without it to begin with?
>Because of "free-will" and the continuous nature of the creation of human...

I see you haven't been following very closely.

Making a world without sin might, plausibly, violate free will.

Making a world with a different procedure for forgiveness of sin would not.
--
"the bogosity in a field equals the bogosity imported from related areas, plus
the bogosity generated internally, minus the bogosity expelled or otherwise
disposed of."  -- K. Eric Drexler

Ken Arromdee (UUCP: ....!jhunix!arromdee; BITNET: arromdee@jhuvm;
     INTERNET: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
From: rpitts@emperor.gatech.edu (Richard Pitts)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: There are two years left!
Date: 8 Sep 92 19:04:50 GMT
Organization: CERL-EE, Georgia Institue of Technology

In article <1992Sep8.172736.1879@linus.mitre.org> m23364@mwunix (James Meritt) writes:
>
>Bad news.  The end of the world came and went.  NONE of you are worthy!
>
>;-)

Remember that none of us can merit salvation (i.e., none of us are
worthy) - salvation is a gift from God (Eph 2:8-9.)  :-)

Regardless of whether anyone of us is worthy or not, we would all know it, as
Jesus described in the following passage:

   Mat 24:4   Jesus answered: "Watch out that no one deceives you.
   Mat 24:5   For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Christ,  '
      and will deceive many.
   ...
   Mat 24:23   At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!'
      or, 'There he is!' do not believe it.
   Mat 24:24   For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform
      great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect--if that were
      possible.
   Mat 24:25   See, I have told you ahead of time.
   Mat 24:26   "So if anyone tells you, 'There he is, out in the desert,' do
      not go out; or, 'Here he is, in the inner rooms,' do not believe it.
   Mat 24:27   For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in
      the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
   Mat 24:28   Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.
   Mat 24:29   "Immediately after the distress of those days "'the sun will be
      darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from
      the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.'
   Mat 24:30   "At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the
      sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son
      of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory.

For Christ and His Kingdom,
Richard Pitts
-- 
rpitts@cerl.gatech.edu       |    
Atlanta, GA                --|-- 
                        -|-  |  -|-
                         |   |   |
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
From: weaver@chdasic.sps.mot.com (Dave Weaver)
Subject: Re: Mr. Clippingdale's religion
Organization: SPS
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 23:57:21 GMT

simon@dcs.warwick.ac.uk (Simon Clippingdale) writes:

>>weaver@chdasic.sps.mot.com (Dave Weaver) writes:
>> Are there any untestable assertions that deserve the label objective
>> truth? I know of no test to prove that I have a conscience, yet something
>> troubles me when I violate standards of behavior I have set for myself.
>> The quantity and quality of circumstantial evidence would lead me to 
>> conclude that the existance of a faculty for distinguishing right and 
>> wrong in my own conduct is objectively true.

>I think this is perhaps an unfortunate example, in that I'd go at it
>the other way round. It is observable that people in general attempt
>to conform to certain (but subjective) moral standards. Having
>observed this, we label the effect "conscience". While it's thus
>objectively true that people in general exhibit conscience, it would
>be difficult, as you say, to devise a test for a particular individual,
>but in the absence of contrary evidence you could reasonably be assumed
>to be typical, and thus your conscience is an objective phenomenon
>under this null hypothesis. How does that sound? I have to say I'm not
>100% happy with this argument, and input is welcome.

I think that is a reasonable arguement. 

So if we have an untestable or unfalsifiable assertion, it may be considered
objectively true if there is a preponderance of favorable circumstantial 
evidence along with an abscence of contrary evidence. And if not considered 
"objectively true", then at least an individual could reasonably hold such
an assertion to be true. Is that a fair statement?

Getting back to the original intent of this, it would then follow that an
unfalsifiable religious tenent could reasonably be considered true if it passes
the above criteria. Of course the obvious problem is that there are often two 
or more ways to consistently interpret a body of evidence, especially if the
data set is lacking completeness in such a way to make consensus elusive
(i.e. gradualism vs. punctuated equilibria). 


Dave Weaver
From: rpitts@emperor.gatech.edu (Richard Pitts)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: There are two years left!
Date: 15 Sep 92 19:41:54 GMT
Organization: CERL-EE, Georgia Institue of Technology

In article <1992Sep15.175154.22838@linus.mitre.org> m23364@mwunix (James Meritt) writes:
>2. Learn to copy my name right.  That's MeRitt.  One "r".

Sorry, I try and do justice to people's names, as I like to be properly
referenced myself, but I tend to want to put two 'r' characters and 
one 't' character in your name - I'll try harder.

Sincerely,
Richard Pitts
-- 
rpitts@cerl.gatech.edu       |    
Atlanta, GA                --|-- 
                        -|-  |  -|-
                         |   |   |
From: jloucks@uts.amdahl.com (Jim Loucks)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Christians at Work in Oregon
Date: 9 Sep 92 18:11:49 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

jloucks@uts.amdahl.com (Jim Loucks) writes:
>stieger@cco.caltech.edu (Ronald David Stieger) writes:
>>Unfortunately, in this country mainstream views seldom are put forth as
>>loudly as radical opinions, simply because they don't need to be.  After
>>all, they're already mainstream.  So outsiders can easily mistake the views
>>of a vocal minority for those of the silent majority.  However, in this
>>case, I recently heard of a group of moderate Christians beginning a 
>>campaign OPPOSING the gay-discrimination ballot measure.  Of course, this
>>isn't going to be nearly as newsworthy outside of Oregon so don't be
>>too surprised if you don't hear about it. 

>The Newsweek September 14 issue mentions the Oregon ballot starting on
>page 25, so it appears this will be known around the nation.

Whoops, that should be page 35.

-- 
Jim Loucks           jloucks@uts.amdahl.com 
{apple, pyramid, sun, uunet}!amdahl!jloucks