From: ustai@memstvx1.memst.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: MA: Fare Price Increase
Date: 2 Oct 92 23:46:27 -0600
Organization: Memphis State University

In article <1992Oct3.013128.4172@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg>, eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Othman Ahmad) writes:
> ustai@memstvx1.memst.edu writes:
[munched]
> 
> Why don't you quote my pharase,
> "provided there is competition"

	There is.  The minibuses.  What improvement have we seen in the
services provided?

> : 	I do not support the move to increase the bus fares.  This is based
> : upon my own experiences with Sri Jaya buses and also what I have read in the
> : newspapers.
> 
> When was this? Was it during the days before the mini-buses? I rarely take the
> big buses when in KL?

	Oh, it was just a couple of years ago, in 1990 in fact.  The report was
around then too, plus and minus a year or two.

> : way too much profits.  He said 30% profits were normal, however, these
> 
> gross or net. Was it sufficient to allow them to buy more buses and recoup their
> former investments?

	His calculations showed that they could have modernised half the fleet
(SJ) over 2 years I believe.  Not sure if it was net or gross, but anything
that allows you to modernise your fleet in that short a time has to be a little
bit too much, don't you think???  He said the same thing about the profits of
the "chinese" bus in KL too.

> 	30% profit is reasonable profit without taking into account depreciation
> and cost of finance.

	That's what the guy reported too.  He said 30% profits were reasonable,
but then he said they were making too bloody much (paraphrased...:))

> 	My cousin has a mini bus. They usually have operating profits of
> 100%, at least in Sandakan. 30% operating profit is just survival, and rembember

	Notice something.  This is your cousin.  That is a company.  They don't
share profits with the employees.  At least I don't think so.

> 	Imagine what the profit margin will be if you suddenly buy 2 times the
> number of buses? You may not break even.

	I don't mind if you make reasonable profits, but as pointed out by the
report, they were making far too much, without putting back anything into the
company.  No capital investments.  The only new buses I have seen are those
second hand ones that they bought from somewhere.

> 	I just can't understand why KL people like to use these buses to
> save 10c while tolerating the overpacking. I was caught in one with my wife

	Huh?  What do you mean by that?  I have to take that bus to go home. 
Either that or call a cab or don't go down town.  And even with the competition
(the minibuses -- but I have to walk from Dayabumi to that bank place, or to
Bank Negara), what bloody use is the competition when *BOTH* of them overload??

> 	If there is competition, it will be disastrous not to improve services
> if they can afford it. As to the decision whether the profit margin is 
> sufficient or not, leave it to the entrepreneurs. They know best.

	There is supposed to be.  Remember why minibuses were allowed??  

> 	If you think that you can make more, why don't you try to set up 
> a competitive bus company. As to the cost of getting the license, that is part
> of the game.

	A couple of problems.  Number one of course is financial backing.  Who
is going to do it?  I certainly don't have the cash.  Because if I have, I
would have bought a car in the first place and do not have the need to suffer
unnecessarily, and as such, wouldn't have personally experienced all these.
	As to the "part of the game", I do happen to believe that SJ has a lot 
of clout regarding a new company being given a license.  And I don't even      
qualify to enter the game.

> 	As to kow-towing(is that right), and kick-backs(commissiions and 
> consultation fees), the costs must be taken into account as well.
> 
	This I agree too.  However, it couldn't be that much.  After all, you
have to justify all expenses to your CPA, right?  Probably just a percent or
two of the profits (which I believe number in the millions).

> : 	I think, from the above, one must come to the conclusion that any
> : increase in bus fares (in Peninsular at least) will only increase the profits
> : of the SJ owners and nothing else.  I can think of no reason to justify the
> : increase.  At least the Singaporean buses are clean and regular and no
> : overloading.  Do any of the KL/PJ buses fulfil that requirement?
> 
> What is their fare? What is their profit margin? No overloading?
> Fare is singapore 50c for half a mile. For 3 miles it become 90c which is the
> maximum. For feeder routes you pay 25c.

	Normal SJ services have a max of 70c.  Every two or three stops adds 5c
to 10c to your base 20c.  No feeder routes that I know off.  And certain routes
are not regular at all!!!!!!

> 	The 199 service to NTU is certainly overcrouded, early in the morning.

	I know.  But at least it is regular.  Has anything like what happened
to me with the 328 bus ever happened to you????

> So is the 178 to woodlands most of the time, at least the time I go to
> Johor which is weekends.

	It is expected to be overcrowded.  After all, this is peak hour.  But
they do send extra buses.  I was there in late July and have seen 2 buses
arrive even on NON-peak hours.

> 	The worst is the 170 to Johor, paying 50c just to cross the causeway.
> It is the worst packing that I know.

	However, it is 50c, and they have all that trouble of applying for
licenses, going thru customs each time and imagine the passport of the bus
driver.....!!! :) :)  However, you should try the minibuses during jam times.
"Belakang lagi, belakang lagi, sikit lagi" and then you have this hero hanging
out the door...
[belakang = back, lagi = more, sikit = a bit, for those not familiar with the
language]

> 	Incidentally, the best service in the world is the SJ service from
> Subang airport to KL. The 15 mile journey cost M$1.20 , air conditioned, and
> used to have seats with head rests. The latest buses use the hard plastic
> beam for some part of your head to rest, like in Singapore air-con buses.

	I must agree that the 270 is one of the better services provided, but I
believe that there has to be some pressure applied to the company.  After all,
this *IS* the International Airport we are talking about.  Incidentally, have
anyone taken the 270 all the way to the end?  That Subang Village has some of
the best seafood around.  And you get to watch airplanes a'la Wayne's
World..... :) :)
	However, the buses serving the KL-Klang route is quite good too.  Air
conditioned, $1.30 from Klang to Asia Jaya (btw, SJ charges $1.25... there's
your competition for you) and next to no overcrowding.  I believe it's $2.10
from Klang to KL.

> 	I've never experienced any problem with SJ in KL, always spacious, but
> the among the worst, as bad as the 170, is the other service in KL, the red
> buses, mostly manned by chinese. The SJ service is mostly manned by malays.
> 
	If you want, I can give you horror stories about SJ.  There was this
once where this old lady (obvious frail condition) rang the bell to get off at
the first Persiaran Zaaba stop (244, serving KL-TTDI), but the driver didn't
hear her.  She rang again, and he screeched to a stop, and then turned around
and started verbally abusing the old lady, saying that she should ring the bell
before the stop if she wants to get off.  And *AS* she got off, he drove off.  I
could see the conductor was very uncomfortable with it, but there was nothing
he could do, since he wasn't the driver.  Did you say they were manned mostly
by malays?
	However, this is one isolated case.  I have found that if you smile and
said hello when buying the ticket, they will usually "hi" back to you.  In
fact, if you smile at people (NOT smirking :) :)), people usually smile back at
you.
[An aside, the local papers did an interview with the bus drivers and
conductors to get their viewpoints.  One of the most memorable anecdotes I
remember was the complaint about how this one customer would consistently hold
the coins in his ears, and take them out to buy the ticket when the conductor
appeared.  A bit later, I saw this man for myself...  Very weird, looking at
someone holding coins in his ears... :) :)]

> Why don't you take the mini buses? They are smaller and can make more regular
> rounds, and yet it is still not good enough to me, not to our Sandakan standard.

	Because they don't serve the route!  They don't pass near my school. 
I'd rather walk.  It's only about 50 minutes anyway.  Can you imagine walking
*everyday* to school for an hour?  Then there's the walk back under the hot
sun.  The service was *THAT* bad.  I must admit I thank them tho.  I now can
say to my kids, "Daddy used to walk one hour to school everyday!" :) :)
> 
> : 	With this kinds of service, and they want to increase their fares?? 
> : This is a sick joke!
> 
> This is the standard argument against any fare increase. Increase service 
> before fare increase. The fare had not increased for ages which inflations
> creeps up, even without taking into account the depreciation of ringgit. The
> funny thing was that they tolerate the excessive fare in the olden days when
> the buses were new. Was it because of better service since there were less 
> people?

	I think we can safely say that there was less people.  Again, let me
iterate.  They are making **EXCESSIVE** amounts of money.  If they don't see
the need to improve their service, I don't see the need to pay anymore that
necessary.  Which is not the new price.  Regarding the SJ company anyway.

> 	When I was in KL in 1981, the mini bus fare was 50c, wasn't it?

	It still is.

> You have a very good supported in Dr. Mahathir, our prime minister. He has
> "advised" that the prices not be increased for so long.

	I am not sure what you mean, but I do recognise the fact that the man
has done a lot for our country.  Other people may be able to do better, but not
much more.  Look at our economy for one.  Then there is the increased
international recognition of the "little country stuck between Thailand and
Singapore."  What reasons do you give for not supporting Mahathir?  Who else is
there in Malaysia that can do a better job than him?  I don't think you will
support MCA and I certainly think PAS and DAP has some problems which if they
don't overcome, they will have big problems trying to win the elections.
	Ciao.

-Tai
ps:  Anyone who is reading this, please reply (email) me, I am just curious
about the number of people who actually read such long posts.  I can be reached
at UFLTAI@MSUVX1.MEMST.EDU or UFLTAI@MEMSTVX1.  Thanx.  Just a short note will
do.