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Date:         Fri, 24 Jul 1992 10:33:53 EDT
Reply-To:     Bill McGarry <wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com>
From:         Bill McGarry <wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com>
Subject:      Handicap Digest # 2819
X-To:         LHCAP <l-hcap@VM1.NODAK.EDU>

                             THE HANDICAP DIGEST

                                 Issue # 2819

                            Friday, July 24, 1992

Today's Topics:


                                ******

                           Blink Talk Digest # 659

                              B n s and grade 2
                         Re: trivia question again.
                                PROCR200.zip
                            Re: vendor favoritism
                           What is a team player?
                                   Spanish
                     Re: Artic, Pc Anywhere & Wp Office
                                   watches
                          Flipper Moves Ahead Of Th
                             Dogs And Landlords


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Subject: B n s and grade 2
From: David.Tanner@f168.n129.z1.fidonet.org (David Tanner)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/168 - Braille Bank BBS, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

When you wish to write into the Braille 'N Speak in Grade 2 Braille
and have the Braille 'N Speak be able to translate what you have
put in back to print you tell the Braille 'N Speak that you want
the translator on.  Of course, you can print out in Braille what
you have typed in in Grade 2 Braille on a Braille printer.  But,
what you will not find on a Braille 'N Speak is a translator that
will turn uncontracted files in your Braille 'N Speak into
contracted Braille on a Braille printer.  The process used in the
Braille 'N Speak is usually refered to as back translation.  It is
the back translation that allows you to type into the Braille 'N
Speak in Grade 2 Braille and have it read out to you as though it
were not contracted.

        D. T.

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!168!David.Tanner
Internet: David.Tanner@f168.n129.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Re: trivia question again.
From: David.Tanner@f168.n129.z1.fidonet.org (David Tanner)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/168 - Braille Bank BBS, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

You say it would be easy to change the user interface on Vocal-eyes
to accept a three number digit.  Wouldn't a person need that if
they were to have their system in one of the new VGA modes? On the
other hand would we be able to get speech if it went into a mode
that had the wider screen of say 130 characters per line?  Wouldn't
that be a graphics mode that speech would not be able to handle?

This is one that has confused me for a long time.  Hope you can
clear up my confusion on this!!

        D. T.

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!168!David.Tanner
Internet: David.Tanner@f168.n129.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: PROCR200.zip
From: David.Tanner@f168.n129.z1.fidonet.org (David Tanner)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/168 - Braille Bank BBS, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

Well Larry, Someone told me you had this file on your board and
they wanted me to test it out.  Since I couldn't think of who the
person was that I got the call from I will address this message to
you.

Have you tested this ocr product and what kind of results did you
get?

I tested it with our HP Scan Jet Plus at work.  Although I haven't
had a lot of time to try a lot of different stuff with it, it
didn't look like this particular version was going to be reliable
enough for most reading, but it certainly might work for converting
PCX fax files into textfiles.  I do think it it would be good if we
could contact the author of the software and see if a newer version
of the software has been released since it certainly did work with
speech and supported two scanners.  Considering the software is 2
years old a newer version may be enough improved to do a decent job
of recognition.  I am guessing that the average percentage of
correct recognition on the three documents I tried was somewhere in
the 50% to 70% range; not nearly good enough to really know what
was being read with any real degree of reliabilit y.

It is products like this one that give me the feeling that the time
will come in a year or two that we will be able to download a
shareware ocr software that will have a high level of accurecy and
will support a wide range of scanners.  As this technology
continues to grow in popularity among both sighted and blind users
it is sure to happen.

If you can get any more info on this package please pass the info
along.

        D. T.

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!168!David.Tanner
Internet: David.Tanner@f168.n129.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Re: vendor favoritism
From: Tim.Cumings@p0.f460.n101.z1.fidonet.org (Tim Cumings)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:101/460.0 - VI/BUG, Holbrook MA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

"iF YOU ARE A FREE-THINKER THEN YOU DON'T HAVE ANY BUSINESS JOINING AN
ORGANIZATION LIKE THE NFB, ...yOU AS A FREE-THINKER WOULD NOT BE A GOOD
TEAM PLAYER.   a SHEEP DOESN'T THINK FOR HIMSELF OR DO ANYTHING TO
CONTRIBUTE TO HIS OWN WELFARE, BUT BLINDLY FOLLOWS THE LEADER.  a TEAM
PLAYER MAY FIGHT, SCRAP, KICK AND SCREAM IN THE HUDDLE, BUT WHEN IT'S
TIME TO PLAY FOOTBALL, THE QUARTERBACK CALLS THE SIGNALS.   iF THE
INTERNAL POLITICS OF THE FEDERATION DO NOT ALLOW FOR INDIVIDUAL
EXPRESSION THEN THAT IS SOMETHING THEY WILL HAVE TO WORK OUT."

That's the point. If there's no room for individual expression even
_within the Federation, then your football analogy breaks down, because
there is no room for fighting, scrapping, kicking, or screaming _in the
_huddle. If this is the case, then it follows that Your distinction
between sheep and team playrs also breaks down.

You've just said that free thinkers don't have any business joining the
nfb. Then you say that a sheep is someone who doesn't think for him or
herself.

 Are nfbers' sheep? According to your own definition, You would probably
say no. Rather, you and other nfb supporters would probably argue that
nfb members are team players, because they contribute to their own
welfare by following Jernigan, since they believe he knows what is best
for this nation's blind population. However, to use your football
analogy, if there's no huddle befor the game, then it seems to me that
team players have become sheep.

"eVEN THOUGH i DISAGREE WITH THIS ORGANIZATIONS POSITIONS i WILL NOT BAD
MOUTH THEM BECAUSE THEY HAVE A RIGHT TO DO WHATEVER THEY WANT. i JUST
GOT MY FEDERATION MEMBERSHIP CARD TODAY, AND i JOINED THE FEDERATION AS
OPPOSED TO ACB BECAUSE i PERSONALLY THINK THAT "GO ALONG TO GET ALONG"
POLITICS DOESN'T WORK."

I wonder how the California Acb would feel about being  characterised as
being involved in "go along to get along politics." I know you didn't
specifically mention that state group, but I picked them since a
_majority of their membership are former Nfb members.

Furthermore, if the statistic that 20% of the membership nationwide of
the Acb are former nfbers, all of whom didn't leave just during the
"Civil War," what happened to them? Were they all team players who
suddenly became free thinkers? I'm sure many of these people were
committed to many principles of the nfb. Did they leave the Federation
and just give up political action. I doubt it. If that was the case,
they wouldn't join the Acb.

In fact, the California Acb was formed because the _entire Nfb
California affiliate was expelled. Maybe at one time there were great
differences between nfb and Acb philosophy, but I think today the basic
difference is not philosophy of blindness so much as it is in political
organization, democratic centralism (nfb) versus representative
democracy (acb.) Besides, "Nfb philosophy" has more holes in it than a
pound of Swiss cheese.

Finally, if you disagree with the Federation's positions, why did you
join the Federation? It seems to me that a person would join an
organization based _not _only on the organization's philosophy but also
on the positions that organization took on _specific issues.

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!101!460.0!Tim.Cumings
Internet: Tim.Cumings@p0.f460.n101.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: What is a team player?
From: Jamal.Mazrui@p0.f460.n101.z1.fidonet.org (Jamal Mazrui)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:101/460.0 - VI/BUG, Holbrook MA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

I find the discussion interesting about differences among a sheep, team
player, and free thinker.  It seems to me that a sheep will follow the
leader without thinking about matters before doing so.  A team player
will think for him or herself and try to preclude public differences of
opinion by airing differences internally and seeking compromise.
Should a team player still follow a decision, however, if it violates
important principles to him or her?  When you draw analogies with a
football team or church, the answer seems to be affirmative.  Yet
neither of these purport to be democratic, voluntary organizations that
represent the membership.  A football team consists of paid athletes
who work according to a clear chain of command, beginning with the
coach, followed by the quarterback.  A Church has a spiritual rather
than business chain of command beginning with God, followed by the
minister.  I wonder if you intended to compare the NFB to these types
of organizations and whether your comparison is revealing about what
you believe to be the NFB's true nature?

If we wish to differentiate a free thinker from a team player, then
perhaps we could say that he or she will think and speak for him or
herself without seeking to avoid public confrontation with others.
This may not be the most constructive manner for a member to behave
because it may cause unnecessary diviseness.  I would argue, however,
that the free thinker must be protected in any organization that
purports to be democratic.  If democratic rights of membership do not
apply when we wish that someone would be quiet rather than publicly air
a difference of opinion, then those rights are not worth much, are not
sincerely accorded, and therefore are not truly rights.  By the way,
sheep-like behavior is not particularly constructive for an
organization either, but I believe the right of people to behave like
sheep should be protected.

I think that many blind people follow Jernigan without question because
he exhibits ministerial qualities that provide them with a feeling of
comfort and security about their lives now and in the future.  It is as
if following him is a path to salvation and if they have faith they
will be "saved."  Unfortunately, I think it occurs with the numbers it
does partly because of his charismatic skills and partly because of the
still deprived condition that most of us face as blind people.  With
70% unemployed, a lot of us feel an isolation, frustration, and
hopelessness with life that is aching for an anectote.  For many,
Jernigan provides this anecdote.  I am glad for the self esteem he
raises in many blind people, including myself when I first lost my
sight.  I am disappointed in the exploitation of that psychological hold on
people to further his personal political ambitions.

Regards,

Jamal

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!101!460.0!Jamal.Mazrui
Internet: Jamal.Mazrui@p0.f460.n101.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Spanish
From: Phil.Scovell@p0.f810.n104.z1.fidonet.org (Phil Scovell)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/810.0 - Electronic Library, Denver CO


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

I've heard that Hadley no longer offers language courses and I was wondering
if anyone knows where I can get some Braille Spanish instruction courses.  I
took it in high school and we had braille books there so I know some must be
around but I'm not sure where to look.

Phil.

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!104!810.0!Phil.Scovell
Internet: Phil.Scovell@p0.f810.n104.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Re: Artic, Pc Anywhere & Wp Office
From: David.Bond@p0.f810.n104.z1.fidonet.org (David Bond)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/810.0 - Electronic Library, Denver CO


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 CC> She has Artic 3.03, and the most recent versions of PC Anywhere and
 CC> WordPerfect Office.  The idea is to use PC Anywhere to log onto the
 CC> work machine and run WP Office from home, using ABV on thel ocal
 CC> machine.
*part of original message edited out....continuing...
 CC> The problem they are finding is that some screens in WP Office talk
 CC> fine over this connection and others do not speak at all. The
 CC> connection works fine, btw-- it's only once they're into WP Office that
 CC> the seemingly random reading (or not reading) of the screen begins.

Hi Carla-

I am not experienced with PC-Anywhere, just WP Office 3.0 and Artic 3.03.
As I read your message, and sorry I am a little late with this reply by the
way, but as I was trying to think through what you might be having a problem
with, it occurred to me that there is probably a good chance that they are
running WP Office (locally) as a shell program.  Now I don't use the Office
program for business purposes, I use it at home for it's editor, WP
compatability, it's notebook database, and it's great file manager.  I *do
not* run it as a shell, but run each program separately from the Dos command
line.  Whenever I've tried to run the shell, I have never had any good
experiences because the screens just don't work fgood with speech for
whatever reason.  Colors change alot from screen to screen and the speech
software just can not keep up with all that is going on.  All these
programs, there are actually 4 programs, (editor, notebook, file manager, &
calendar) work great as stand alone programs and are relatively easy to set
up the speech software with.

Since you mentioned that the PC-Anywhere software seems to work good, I
can't help but think that it is something to do with the above.  If it is a
conflict with the shell, perhaps they can do something at the local end by
giving your friend access to DOS where she could run the necessary
program(s) as stand alone.  I know most companies don't want there employees
to have access to DOS, but maybe there is a way your friend could do it,
maybe there is software out there that can isolate the user from critical
files and information or provide restricted access to the user via a
password or something even while he/she is operating from the Dos command
line.

Sorry I can't be real helpful here, hope someone else is a little more
knowledgeable.

Dave

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!104!810.0!David.Bond
Internet: David.Bond@p0.f810.n104.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: watches
From: Bill.Koppelmann@p0.f809.n104.z1.fidonet.org (Bill Koppelmann)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/809.0 - Fantasy Mountain, Golden CO


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

>their old one and the main thing I like is the speech.  It isn't
>too loud and it doesn't beep or ding before it gives the time like
>most others do except for on the hour and I don't mind that.  I
>just don't want everybody in church hearing me checking to see what
>time it is.

In that case, you'll like the new one as it's much less loud, and
while I've not heard anyone here say how easy it is to put a new
battery in, at least there is only one to be replaced, and I supose
you could take it to Shack and have them replace it, they have for me.

                                Bill k.

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Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!104!809.0!Bill.Koppelmann
Internet: Bill.Koppelmann@p0.f809.n104.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Flipper Moves Ahead Of Th
From: Steve.Richards@f101.n277.z1.fidonet.org (Steve Richards)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:277/101 - House Of Pancakes, Morgantown WV


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

In a message  07-15-92 (20:20) from Keith Bucher to ALL:
KB>I say that just a few years ago Flipper led the pack in the
KB>Screen REader industry.  Well, it just may do so once again!

Uh, your bias may be showing a little, but who am I to quibble?  I like
Flipper, too.  Like you I'm quite excited about the soon to arrive
upgrade.  Ok, ok, the strongly rumored upgrade.  But, then, I don't
really need to tell you that, as you already know well that I've been a
devoted Flipper user for three years or more.  Why, I'd almost sooner
give up my right arm than give up my cursor beeps!
Steve R.

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!277!101!Steve.Richards
Internet: Steve.Richards@f101.n277.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Dogs And Landlords
From: Dan.Kysor@f730.n203.z1.fidonet.org (Dan Kysor)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:203/730 - QST, Sacramento CA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 KW> After speaking with the social department at Guide Dogs for the Blind
 KW> here in  California, I was informed that they believed although it was
 KW> in very poor  taste, the owners of my aparytment complex most certainly
 KW> could charge me a  pet deposit for my Guide Dog. So, of course, I
 KW> figured that was that and I  paid that two hundred bucks.
 KW> Yet, going through the California Civil Code concerning itself with
 KW> dog  guides, it very clearly states " No extra charge can be levied by
 KW> a public  accomodation, common carrier or landlord because of the dog

karen, i don't know who you talked to at gdfb's social services
department but they are clearly wrong in their facts and as you
pointed out, the civil code contridicts them and your manager.  i
would work either with your nfb chapter in resolving this or
contact a civil rights attorney.  also, you might contact the
california state board of guide dogs, pat urena at 916-445-9041.
remember that the nfb does not support the board but if you cannot
get any assistance from your nfb chapter, contact them.  dan
... "OUT OF SIGHT, OUT OF MY MIND!"

--
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Internet: Dan.Kysor@f730.n203.z1.fidonet.org




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                                ******

                  End of Issue # 2819 of the Handicap Digest

                                ******
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