HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jclander@texas.mitre.org (Julian C. Lander)
Subject: Re: Madonna offers haven to Diana
Reply-To: jclander@texas.mitre.org (Julian C. Lander)
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean, Va
Distribution: world 
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 12:48:38 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.210132.15387@PacBell.COM>, rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams) writes:
|> > jclander@maestro.mitre.org (Julian C. Lander) writes:
|> 
|>   [about HMQE2]
|> 
|> >     ...But it isn't clear how much of it is hers and how much belongs
|> >to the Nation.  For example, the Nation owns Buckingham Palace, but the
|> >Queen owns Sandringham house (George VI had to buy it from the Duke
|> >of Windsor when the latter abdicated).  The Nation wons the pictures
|> >in the royal collection, but it is not clear who owns the stamp 
|> >collection: it began as a hobby of a king [I think George V], but
|> >it may now be considered to belong to the Nation.  And it's worth a
|> >lot of money.
|> 
|> I believe these things belong to the *Crown* -- there's a
|> subtle difference.
|> 

Oops! Sorry.  You're right.  How about "held in trust for the Nation"?

|> >The Queen has effectively more money than Madonna because she can
|> >expect to live at her current level of luxury indefinitely.  Madonna
|> >has to hope that her income keeps up enough so that she can live on
|> >unearned increment once she is no longer popular...
|> 
|> Hey, even at 2% in a passbook account, the Material Girl's
|> earnings thus far could keep her going in a modicum of comfort
|> for the next few decades.  And wait until "Sex" hits the
|> bookstands.  Oy!

I know nothing of Madonnna's finances, but are we sure that all of 
the money reported as going to her is really hers?  Does she pay a
staff out of that money, or her band and dancers (and whatever 
else she uses), and of course there's always the agent....  I
suspect that she banks less than it would appear.
|> 
|>                                                  ...(On the other hand,
|> >the Queen cannot retire.)
|> 
|> What/who's to stop her?  She could abdicate tomorrow if she
|> had a mind to.

I don't think that abdication is analagous to retirement.  Retirement
is something that is part of the contract, if you will: it is not
avoiding a responsibility.  Abdication, on the other hand, is not
looked upon favorably by the House of Windsor, and probably not by
HM's subjects.  (At least not by many of them.)


Julian C. Lander
jclander@mitre.org
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Paul Jabara
Date: 4 Oct 1992 04:09:31 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <1992Oct2.200422.2762@fig.citib.com> 
glp@fig.citib.com (Greg Parkinson) writes:

> This loud
> wild yell went up from the dance floor and I was
> laughing and crying and holding onto my friends
> and feeling *alive*.
>
> That's what I thought about when I read about
> Paul Jabara's death.

Oh my.  Thank you, Greg.

When I think about Paul Jabara, I think about The Rocky Horror Show 
and what I was doing when I was a wild and crazy 18 year old.  Rocky 
Horror oppened at the Roxy in LA early in 1974, when I was just 18, 
with Tim Curry in the part of Frank N. Furter.  I went on opening 
night with my boyfriend David (he was David #1; later that year were 
David #2 and David #2.5).  I *loved* the play.  Those were the days that
I loved looking older than I was -- I loved the fact that I was never
carded so I could spend every night at Studio One, which had just opened 
the year before, and Larry's, and the Hayloft (my favorite bar of all 
time), and the Sugar Shack, and Rodney's (remember platform shoes? 
rhinestones? the New York Dolls?), and the bar that later became the Blue 
Parrot (and after that Revolver), and Greg's Blue Dot, and, after
"dancing", Arthur J's.

Well, after a couple of months Tim Curry left Rocky Horror and was
replaced by Paul Jabara.  I went back to see the show with David on
Jabara's opening night and I fell in love with him.  Unlike Tim Curry,
Paul Jabara was an unabashed, outrageous queen.  He would constantly
adlib *outrageous* bits of dialogue.  Suffice it to say that I fell
instantly in love with him.  Paul Jabara drew inspiration from the
same sassy drag queens that Bette Midler did, but I would have to 
say that he was even funnier than she was.  Anyway, whenever I think
about the days when I was young and wild and having fun, fun, fun,
I think about Paul Jabara camping it up in high heels and fish nets.

I should also point out here that just under Paul Jabara's obituary
in the New York Times was an obituary for Frederick Combs, the
original Donald in The Boys in the Band.

Fuck.

Arne

Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: frankm@microsoft.com (Frank R.A.J. Maloney)
Subject: Re: Is Oregon headed towards facsism? (Or family values...)
Date: 23 Sep 92 15:16:08 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Windows/DOS Users Ed Group

I see Dr. Billy Graham is in Portland, Oregon, right now, conducting
one of his mega-revivals. At a news conference, according to an article
in Tuesday night's Seattle Times, 75%-80% of the questions asked him at
his press conference, held to promote his crusade, so-called, were
about homosexuality, OCA, and 9 and so forth. He refused to answer all
questions about homosexuality and Christianity or about the 9 campaign,
saying that he did not get involved in partisan politics, that there
were good people on both sides of the issue, and that he hoped after
the election, no matter who won, that both sides would learn to love
one another.

As if OCA and 9 were about love.

Despite the pleas and lobbying of the president of the Portland Council
of Churches to take a position against 9 and against OCA.

And all this non-partisanship from a man who loves to preside at White
House prayer breakfasts.

-- 
Frank Richard Aloysius Jude Maloney
	"Well, I'm a little muddled." -- Glinda
From: tdober@llnl.gov (TDO)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Frozen Green Tomatoes (mild spoilers)
Date: 5 Oct 92 20:05:06 GMT
Followup-To: soc.motss
Distribution: usa
Organization: llnl

In article <thaaang.718233431@cwis>, thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John
Dorrance) wrote:

[stuff deleted]

> I was convinced during the bee-taming scene.

That was the scene that convinced me, too. (At least I think it was--if I
remember right, at the very end of the scene, Ruth kisses Idgie, who looks
completely (and delightedly) stunned. As I watched this scene, I was
thinking, "Zing! went the strings of my heart!")


> John Dorrance * Alleged Homosexual/Shameless Hussy * thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu

TDO
--
#include "StdDisclaimer.h"

Pain, like time, is going to come on regardless. Question is, what glorious
moments can you win from life in addition to the pain? -- Lois McMaster
Bujold, _Barrayar_
From: tdober@llnl.gov (TDO)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: gay science fiction
Date: 2 Oct 92 02:32:05 GMT
Followup-To: soc.motss
Organization: llnl

In article <1992Sep30.221201.2104@rigel.econ.uga.edu>,
hughes@dogwood.botany.uga.edu (Wayne Hughes) wrote:
> 
> In article <BvEu1u.C7G@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> phi@sage.cc.purdue.edu (The Dark Sage) writes:
> >I like science fictoin novels, especially cyber-punk genres.  Does anyone
> >know of any good books in these lines that have gay characters, preferably
> >main characters?
> >
>     Ann Maxwell wrote a series of books back in the late 70's-early 80's
>     that had gay characters.

Could you provide details (book titles, character names) please? I think
I've read everything she's written, including _Fire Dancer_/_Dancer's
Luck_/_Dancer's Illusion_, and can't think of *any* gay characters at all.

To respond to the original poster's query:
 
_A Matter of Oaths_ by Helen Wright is SF with gay main characters

John Varley's Gaea series (_Titan_, _Wizard_, _Demon_) has a number of
lesbian and bisexual women, all strongly and positively portrayed.

Vonda McIntyre's series (_Starfarers_, _Transition_, _Metaphase_, and
presumably more to come--I hope she hurries!) involves a group marriage
between a woman and two men.

Elizabeth A. Lynn's _A Different Light_ has gay and bisexual protagonists.

I actually know a lot more fantasy books with lesbigay characters than
science fiction; let me know if you're interested in titles.

>     Wayne

TDO
--
#include "StdDisclaimer.h"

Pain, like time, is going to come on regardless. Question is, what glorious
moments can you win from life in addition to the pain? -- Lois McMaster
Bujold, _Barrayar_
From: roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: usenet.age
Date: 28 Sep 92 13:11:40 GMT
Reply-To: roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips)
Organization: Quantime Ltd, London (software for market research)

[Warning: hand-edited References: header.]

In article <1992Sep27.183518.15810@sun0.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>,
gsmith@lauren.uucp (Gene W. Smith) writes:
> In article <15730@umd5.umd.edu> jns@elea.umd.edu (J. N. Shaumeyer) writes:
> >But prudence advises us to distinguish carefully
> >betwee 'use' and 'useful'.

[Betwee!  Betwee!  Be like mee!]

> What about category theory in Gay and Lesbian studies?

Isn't that what mls@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (mike.siemon) meant
in article <1992Sep26.213547.22943@cbnewsm.cb.att.com>:
? I don't know about the contents of the Asperti/Longo tome,
? or any others in the (fairly numerous) field,
? but in fact a category reworking of
? the limit results of Strachey makes a lot of sense.

Mind you, I'm not familiar with Lytton Strachey's limit results.

[Betweely betraying his useless.age,]
-- 
Roger Phillips                            roger@quantime.co.uk
"*buhrstone* n. a variety of quartz, containing many small empty cells,
which give it a peculiar roughness of surface particularly adapted for
millstones" -- Chambers English Dictionary (1988)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: astrology and YOU
Keywords: Astrology, bear shit
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 92 14:51:20 GMT


In article <15803@umd5.umd.edu> jns@elea.umd.edu (J.  N.
Shaumeyer) writes:

>This can really mess up the
>Levi-Cevita tensor [in contraction],

Golly, do I *ever* love tensors in contraction!

>Be skeptical if you want, but we're talking
>*science* here.

You're talkin' dirt too, and you know it, evil creature!

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
From: mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: CABAL stuff
Date: 5 Oct 92 17:42:56 GMT
Article-I.D.: gordian.1992Oct5.174256.24223
Organization: Gordian; Costa Mesa, CA

In article <1992Oct5.022910.12988@spdcc.com>, dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
> In article <67178@cup.portal.com> Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison) writes:
> >Michael Thomas postures:
> >>  You know, I always thought that bears were omnivorous. You know,
> >>  Turn in your card.
> >You're not even a *MEMBER* of the BearCabal, much less one of the 
> >Ruling Ursines.
> 
> Would it be rude to say "You'd be a handsome puss if you just grew a beard?"

  Actually, I had a three week old one on my summer vacation up in 
Oregon. There's something about being out in the wilderness and
communing with nature (and driving a truck with shotgun racks and
six packs :-) that seems to demand giving up shaving.
  Unfortunately (?), facial hair really bugs me and I seem to
develop an annoying rash after a while. Besides, I can't stand
when my face hairs get pulled...
-- 

		Michael Thomas	(mike@gordian.com)
	"I don't think Bambi Eyes will get you that flame thrower..."  
		-- Hobbes to Calvin
		USnail: 20361 Irvine Ave Santa Ana Heights, Ca,	92707-5637
		PaBell: (714) 850-0205 (714) 850-0533 (fax)
From: Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: This Ya Gotta See
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 92 21:23:29 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

Jess Anderson writes:
>Just got this from Adolf Pinkelmann:
>
>"Sometimes you make me wonder if some gays don't really
> deserve some bashing, so they would learn how to show some
> respect for those who have never been unrespectful to them."
>
>Anyone surprised?

Not in the slightest. Geek of one of the highest orders of
moronicity, methinks.  ;-)
 
() It is easier to fight for one's principles than to live
() up to them.
()      -- Alfred Adler, 1939
-----
[> George D. Madison | NBCS: B8f+t+w-e+s+k+a!cv | Just say NO to razors! <]
[> It's a BEAR thing -- you wouldn't understand. <|> furr@cup.portal.com <]
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: French imperfect subjunctive (was: My Very Own Out List)
Date: 5 Oct 92 18:34:08 GMT
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison


In article <1992Oct5.165340.9593@cs.mcgill.ca>
akbar@cs.mcgill.ca (Alain BOUCHARD) writes:

>>I seem to remember that even the French make jokes about
>>this.  You say to the charperson mopping at the head of the
>>stairs, "Est-ce que vous permettiez que je passasse?" to
>>which the reply (though not grammatical) is, "Passassez
>>donc!"

>                 ,   ^
>Vos calembours m'epatates!

                   ^ ,      ^
Merci, je aime le pate moi meme!

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
From: tittle@ics.uci.edu (Cindy Tittle Moore)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Frozen Green Tomatoes (was Re: Northern Exposure
Date: 30 Sep 92 21:44:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: ics.2ACA1FA0.11000
Reply-To: tittle@ics.uci.edu (Cindy Tittle Moore)
Distribution: usa
Organization: ICS Dept., UC Irvine

Potential spoilers, by the way, for Fried Green Tomatoes.

In <6901@transfer.stratus.com> pfieland@citron.sw.stratus.com (Peggy Fieland) writes:

>In article <1992Sep30.150034.2334@usl.edu> rhb@ucs.usl.edu (Bird Rendell H.) writes:
>>(Gayla M. Worrell) writes:

>>Am I the only person who wishes things were *less* subtle?
>>
>>I read the book by Fannie Flagg "Fried Green Tomatoes at the Whistle
>>Stop Cafe" and this weekend I finally got around to seeing the movie
>>_Fried Green Tomatoes_, and in neither medium did I think for even
>>one minute that Idgie and Ruth were anything other than good, platonic
>>friends.
>>
>>Does anyone else feel this way?

>Well, I saw the movie, read the book, and heard a review of the movie
>on NPR.  According to NPR, in the movie Idgie and Ruth were just good
>friends, but the book portrayed them as lesbians.  This was before I
>had read the book, BTW.  I agree that they were just friends in the
>movie, but it certainly was never explicitly stated in the book that
>they were other than friends.  I wasn't quite sure after reading the
>book whether they were or not.

>Anyone out there who got a clearer indication from the book that Idgie
>and Ruth were lesbians?

Hm.  I saw the movie, and thought they were lesbian.  (When Idgie
touches Ruth's face, for example.)  I read the book and thought the
same.  It's more subtle in the movie, I'll give you that.

Let's see, in the book we have: 1) Idgie clearly displaying a crush on
Ruth when she comes over (and Idgie's mother tells her siblings to
quit teasing her), 2) Idgie's parents telling her she'll have to get a
good job to support Ruth and the baby after Idgie went back and
collected her, 3) the quarrel they had where Ruth moved out
temporarily.

What I liked was how matter of fact it all was.  On the other hand, I
could see how the lack of reaction, esp. on Idgie's parents' part,
could make it seem like they were "just friends."

--Cindy
--

*  I would rather that a bigot thought I was a lesbian than that a
*  lesbian thought I was a bigot.        -- Tovah Hollander
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: CABAL stuff
Date: 5 Oct 92 18:36:33 GMT
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison


In article <1992Oct5.163833.18037@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com
(Steve Dyer) writes:

>Of course, you can be a vegetarian of any sort without caring a damn
>about animals, usually due to concerns for one's own health (since a
>diet which excludes meat is usually lower in fat and saturated fats.)

Not to mention the antibiotics and other biologically active
chemicals in typical commercial animal feeds.

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rhb@ucs.usl.edu (Bird Rendell H.)
Subject: Frozen Green Tomatoes (was Re: Northern Exposure
Organization: Univ. of Southwestern La., Lafayette
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 15:00:34 GMT

(Gayla M. Worrell) writes:
>Although the sexuality of C & R was not blantantly expressed during this
>episode, it was a pleasure to watch.  Two women, obviously (to me) lesbians
>as the main characters of a prime time show. 

I thought it was too subtle.

...and speaking of...


Am I the only person who wishes things were *less* subtle?

I read the book by Fannie Flagg "Fried Green Tomatoes at the Whistle
Stop Cafe" and this weekend I finally got around to seeing the movie
_Fried Green Tomatoes_, and in neither medium did I think for even
one minute that Idgie and Ruth were anything other than good, platonic
friends.

Does anyone else feel this way?



Rendell

--
Lisa          : Look, Maggie, they have a baby like we do!
Robbie/Bart   : Don't have a stegasaurus, man!
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Earl Sinclair : That's the trouble with TV; they find a premise that works and
                then they do it *to death*.
Baby Sinclair : Don't have a cow, man!
From: mattm@Apple.COM (Matthew Melmon)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: evil twins
Date: 27 Sep 92 22:06:54 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

jns@elea.umd.edu (J. N. Shaumeyer) writes:

>Does it need to be an *evil* twin?  [I can hear
>Roger getting fidgety already.] Fraternal or
>identical?

Well, I suppose it doesn't *have* to be an evil twin.  But
then there are those who might consider what I *want* a 
twin for evil (so perhaps that would make *me* the evil twin...
but everyone knew that already, anyway.)

I suppose it wouldn't really matter whether he was fraternal
or otherwsie.  There's something a little more kinky about
the identical twin, though - eh oui?

>Is it just I, or is it common to fantasize
>about having a twin?  [That, provided of course,
>that one doesn't already have one to put up
>with.]

Well, there are at least two of us.  And the parenthetical is
so true.  I have known many, many twins - and they all seem
to express a certain regret at the loss of individuality.
Especially at first.

I also wouldn't mind having sex with twins.  I mean, we *do*
have two holes, do we not? 8-P

>Is it just the occasional feeling of lonliness,
>instead?  I, at least, had a private [invisible,
>naturally] companion when I was much younger.
>This was pre-puberty, so we were just friends.
>Don't ask me why his name was Clarence--*I*
>didn't name him.  Now I merely talk to myself.

I never had an imaginary childhood friend per se (I *do* wish
I could have had a stuffed tiger...)  But I was in the
habit of talking to inanimate objects (chairs, trees, sex
toys...) as if they were 'real people.'

What a delightful thread.  :-)

Matthew Melmon
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Liz Renay)
Date: 6 Oct 1992 07:43:26 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <1992Oct5.204130.10414@fig.citib.com> 
glp@fig.citib.com (Greg Parkinson) writes:
>
> Having just received a copy of Liz Renay's _My First 2000 Men_ 
> I was wondering if there were any other Liz fans here?

Oh my, YES YES YES!!!  My friend David and I went to see Liz and
her daughter Baby perform the world's first mother-daughter
strip act at some hellhole in Pasadena sometime in the late
'70s.  All I remember clearly is that Liz not only stripped,
but sold tickets at the front door.  And she'd given her
pubic hair a champagne pink rinse.  (She also autographed
David's copy of My Face for the World to See -- she dots the
"i" with a big star.)

Arne
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: glp@fig.citib.com (Greg Parkinson)
Subject: Re: Sir Justin the Clueless
Originator: glp@merlin
Organization: Citibank IBISM
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 13:46:29 GMT


In article <mcmelmon-240992154705@mcmelmon.apple.com>, mcmelmon@aruba.apple.com (Matthew Melmon) writes:
|> In article <1992Sep23.190701.1083@reed.edu>, nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
|> wrote:
|>  
|> > This whole flame war is annoying, just like most of the motss fights.
|> > I suspect someone will learn something, though. How come they're
|> > always started by people outside of soc.motss?
|> 
|> This is not accurate.  If the people *inside* soc.motss weren't so God-
|> damn eager to scream the bloodiest of murders at the drop of a feathered
|> boa, the people *outside* soc.motss wouldn't be able to start anything.

And the rest of the mantra?  Gay people are discriminated
against because of how they act, I have the email from people
who think like me but are kept from posting by the cabal.

::yawn::

-- 
Greg Parkinson                  Phone: 212-657-7814  Fax: 212-825-8607
Citibank,111 Wall Street        E-Mail: glp@fig.citib.com
New York, New York  10043
The opinions expressed are my own and not those of the big 'ol bank.
From: Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: CABAL stuff
Date: Mon,  5 Oct 92 22:41:41 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1992Oct5.004153.12341@netcom.com> <1apugjINNenk@mizar.usc.edu>

adolphson spews brainlessly:
>| He wasn't offending any random person, he was offending George Madison, who
>| is hardly a random person.
>
>I think it would be fair to say that my very existence
>offends George Madison.  But, yes, this was directed at
>him.  And why not?  He *begins* what he thinks of as

But phrased so as to offend as many people aside from your
intended target, *of* *course*.

>conversation with "Fuck you, asshole, if you don't agree
>with me".

I'd like to see this supposed quote in context.

() Urine isn't just a smell; it's a lifestyle.
()      -- Brian of the Rainbows M.C.
-----
[> George D. Madison | NBCS: B8f+t+w-e+s+k+a!cv | Just say NO to razors! <]
[> It's a BEAR thing -- you wouldn't understand. <|> furr@cup.portal.com <]