HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Daniel Sklarew <dsklarew@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: alt.org.pugwash
Date: 20 Jan 93 17:00 PST
Subject: Religious Conservatism Concerns
Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1758700058:000:2415
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!dsklarew    Jan 20 17:00:00 1993


Greetings All!

	Wednesday the nineteenth the United States witnessed another historical e
event, Bill Clinton's inauguration. 1992's presidential election seems to have
left some waves of hope and happiness with the election of Clinton to office.
Citizens have witnessed Clinton's efforts to represent America's diversity th,
tackle economic problems and all in all try to " bring Americans back to
America." Yet, along with the positive things that are happening, the 1992 elec-
tion has also left us with many disturbing things to think about.

	I have found it hard to swallow that a platform such as Amendment 2, an
amendment to Colorado's state constitution stating that homosexuals and bi-s-
sexuals have no claim to defend themselves if fired, evicted or otherwise under
the argument of sexual discrimination, passed. I find it hader still to accept
the force behind the platform, namely religious-right organizations such as
Citizens for Family Values(CFV), Citizens for Excellence in Education(CEE), and
Focus on the Family. These organizations have set up similar campaigns to that
of Colorado's in Oregon, with a platform called Measure 9, and plan to do 
similar platforms in Michigan, Iowa, Missouri, Georgia, Nebraska, and Californiaa
. What we are seeing with the growing force of people in support of these
groups is a rise of religious conservatism and a lot of misinformation.

	The Republican's family values based platform really gave rise to move-
ment such as that in Colorado. Pat Robertson's attack on homosexuals and bi-sexua-
uals as well as Bush's complaceny about the whole platform was a signal to
intensly right-wing religious groups to go ahead and forge there way into 
government. I am concerned with the amount of censorship in schools that I have
read about since these groups entered Colorado, the invasion of privacy these
groups practice, the brainwashing of individuals, and most of all how this is
going to affect the rest of the country.

	I'd like to receive comments, arguments and concerns regarding this 
issue. I feel it is of paramount importance to discuss what is happening 
because the results of platforms like Amendment 2 do not just threaten homo-
sexuals and bi-sexuals, but they effect us ALL. Please feel free to send
comments to me at sariya@acs.bu.edu or post them to alt.org.pugwash.

Thank you for your paitience.

Sariya Jarasviroj
Student Pugwash @ BU

Newsgroups: alt.org.pugwash
From: kimmel@cortex.sai.vtt.fi     (Jyrki Kimmel)
Subject: Re: Falko: INTERNATIONAL Student Pugwash
Organization: Technical Research Centre of Finland (VTT/SAI)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 11:39:17 GMT


In article <107664@bu.edu> sklarew@acs.bu.edu (Daniel Sklarew) writes:
>
>Welcome to the net, Falko! Let's see, that makes, Canada, Denmark (?),
>                                                           ^^^^^^^      
>Holland (?), Germany,  and USA represented here on alt.org.pugwash.

Well, I'm from Finland. You'd better
start collecting them countries,
get your mailbox ready.

Jyrki


-- 
Jyrki Kimmel, VTT Medical Engineering Laboratory kimmel@cortex.sai.vtt.fi
signature in proposal in peer review phase (PPRP). Proposed motto:
"El{m{ on kivaa!" ("Life is fun!")  -Kaisa-Maria, age 3
From: cchung@phy.duke.edu (Charles Chung)
Newsgroups: alt.org.pugwash
Subject: Re: QUERY: Important NAFTA issues ?
Date: 28 Jan 93 18:09:22 GMT
Organization: Duke University Physics Dept.; Durham, N.C.

To: pstonge@TrentU.CA
Subject: Re: QUERY: Important NAFTA issues ?
Newsgroups: alt.org.pugwash
Organization: Duke University Physics Dept.; Durham, N.C.
Cc: 
Bcc: 


-- 
*******************************************************************

	Chuck Chung				(919) 681-6536 (O)
	Duke University Dept. of Physics	(919) 684-1333 (H)
From: bo_bs@ac.nsac.ns.ca
Subject: Re: QUERY: Important NAFTA issues ?
Reply-To: bo_bs@ac.nsac.ns.ca
Organization: Nova Scotia Agricultural College, Nova Scotia, CANADA
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 17:22:22 GMT

In article <FSP.93Jan18162541@sun3.thp.uni-koeln.de>, fsp@thp.uni-koeln.de (Falko Spiller) writes:
>
>PLEASE ANSWER !
>
>this is a test, I'm falko spiller from the german student pugwash.
>
>can you hear (ok, read) me? I'm very new in using newsboxes.
>
>fsp@thp.uni-koeln.de
>--
>Falko Spiller  fsp@thp.uni-koeln.de
>Uni-Koeln,Inst.f.Theo.Physik
Hi!Yes I can read you.I think Im having more difficulty figuring this system
out than you are.Im Brooke Oland at the Nova Scotia Agricultural College in
environmental biology.Please let me know if you receive
this.Thanks.Address=bo_bs@ac.nsac.ns.ca
From: fsp@thp.uni-koeln.de (Falko Spiller)
Newsgroups: alt.org.pugwash
Subject: Re: QUERY: Important NAFTA issues ?
Date: 26 Jan 93 14:28:35
Organization: Institute of Theoretical Physics, University of Cologne, F. R.
	Germany
	<1993Jan16.225525.16953@trentu.ca>,<FSP.93Jan18162541@sun3.thp.uni-koeln.de>
	<1993Jan22.172222.13886@nstn.ns.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: sun3.thp.uni-koeln.de
In-reply-to: bo_bs@ac.nsac.ns.ca's message of Fri, 22 Jan 1993 17:22:22 GMT

one of the answers to my test:
>Hi!Yes I can read you.I think Im having more difficulty figuring this system
>out than you are.Im Brooke Oland at the Nova Scotia Agricultural College in
>environmental biology.Please let me know if you receive
>this.Thanks.Address=bo_bs@ac.nsac.ns.ca 

i can read you. some times later i'll give an overview on the work of
german student-puggies, but because of my english-knowledge this will
be at .. ('ll see)

falko
 

--
Falko Spiller  fsp@thp.uni-koeln.de
Uni-Koeln,Inst.f.Theo.Physik
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: djd0873@ritvax.isc.rit.edu (p r u n e)
Subject: Re: Fun with Fundies (the addresses)
Reply-To: djd0873@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 19:25:26 GMT

...through the christian cable channels though. Even if you don't find Popoff,
you might find a target you'd like even more. Maybe Wildmon? I think he's the
old bearded guy in a fedora who sits in a chair and rambles his depraved
liturgy...

	Nope, that's Dr. Gene Scott; I haven't seen him in a while.  Serious
backwoods kook, he is.  The fundies take him about as seriously as Popoff (that
is, they don't).  He's quite entertaining, though.

	As for Don Wildmon, he used to (probably still does) buy 15-minute time
slots on Xian radio stations for his National Federation for Decency "Wildmon
Report" broadcasts.  Listen for him on any radio station where you might hear
people like Dr. James Dobson (of "Focus on the Family" and Ted Bundy interview
fame) or Rev. Chuck Swindoll ("Insight for Living" broadcasts, which tend to be
plain vanilla evangelical Protestant bible studies).

Happy hunting!

p r u n e       |      ******************************************************
RIT             |      *John 14:6   Moe 23:5   Larry 6:9   Curly 0:3.1415926*
Rochester, NY   |      ******************************************************
From: pharvey@quack.sac.ca.us (Paul Harvey)
Subject: Re: wearing pagan/pentacle jewelry
Organization: The Duck Pond public unix: +1 408 249 9630, log in as 'guest'.
	<1993Jan20.045913.10276@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> <fYh8dJN@quack.sac.ca.us>
	<1993Jan22.204251.2609@rtfm.mlb.fl.us>
Date: 23 Jan 1993 03:20:08 UTC

In article <1993Jan22.204251.2609@rtfm.mlb.fl.us> 
joshua@rtfm.mlb.fl.us (Joshua Geller) writes:
>pharvey@quack.sac.ca.us (Paul Harvey) writes:
>>There is a reason for this. Before Christianity really, good and bad
>>were seen as a pair, an inseparable pair. 
>by who? the jews? the buddhists? the zorostrians?

Pagans of course.

Webster's II:
evil - The word *evil* is ultimately related to the words *up* and
*over* and to the prefix *hypo-*, "under, beneath." The basic sense of
*evil*, which is now lost, was therefore probably "exceeding proper
bounds" or "overreaching," and the word did not signify merely the
absence of good.

Does it all fit now?
Xref: sparky alt.pagan:15849 talk.religion.misc:27544
From: webb@vault.tsd.itg.ti.com (Rosemary Webb)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Critical Thought
Date: 25 Jan 1993 21:28:07 GMT
Organization: Texas Instruments, Austin, Tx.
NNTP-Posting-Host: vault.tsd.itg.ti.com

>  (as another person raised catholic)... a lack of critical examination seems
>to be the rule rather than the exception for most religions. In regards to
>Catholicism/Christianity, it is easy to see why a careful examination of ritual
>cannibalism/diabolism is not easily faced (turning a death cult into a life
>cult entails paradox).
>
>  Allegory & metaphor (never mind that the priesthood are too thick too get it)
>Always recall (if you wish to follow Jesus(tm)) that his primary method of
>instruction was the parable.
Note that, for the laity, preaching in parable gets the point across well.
A well-told tale is also more memorable for non-literate populations.
Keep in mind, though, that even (especially?) for educated believers,
an important dictum during the middle ages was "I believe _because_ it 
is absurd."   Once I encountered this, I stopped trying to make sense
of Catholic doctrine and started looking for another spirituality.  A creator
that alien (or one who creates me with such limited comprehension) gets 
no support from *me*.

Rosemary Webb
(I used to be Catholic, but I'm more discriminating now.)
From: imcc@cs.strath.ac.uk (Iain McCord)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: GOD
Date: 28 Jan 93 13:48:01 GMT
Organization: Comp. Sci. Dept., Strathclyde Univ., Scotland.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

Richard Willis (Richard.Willis@iphase.fidonet.org) wrote:
:                There is a true god. Satan is real. Follow him and you will go
: to hell.
  Is Satan the name of this true god?  Is hell a good place to be?
Follow Jesus and inherite eternal life. Any questions?
  To inherit something means that the previous owner has died.  This would 
indicate that 'eternal life' is not something that can be bequethed.
  If you follow Jesus as you say then you have an option, you can shake the 
dust out of your shoes, give us a parting curse, and leave.  The first two
are optional, the third is not.
:

		~~~~~/\~~~~~
Iain McCord	~~~~/()\~~~~	Thu Jan 28 13:47:59 WET 1993
		~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: lilleyc@cs.man.ac.uk (Chris Lilley)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: the next generation...?
Date: 27 Jan 93 02:13:18 GMT
Organization: Dept Computer Science, University of Manchester, U.K.

In article <2B5F5C82.2498@news.service.uci.edu>
cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) [Hi JANIS] writes:

>In article <kre-210193205220@b61693.student.cwru.edu> kre@po.CWRU.edu
(Keith R. Elflein) writes:

>>In reading some of these articles and also from my own mind :) I have come
>>across an issue that i would like some input on.
>> [...] 
>>If one parent is a wiccan and the other belongs to one
>>of the other religions, there could potentially be some SERIOUS conflict :)

> [Sensible reply about giving them some options & leaving it open
deleted for space]

>>I would like to teach my children Wicca because i feel that
>>it is not only a religion, but an entire way of life that i feel is
>>correct. (i mean the bond between humans and the rest of nature that we are
>
>Watch out.  A way of life is correct for YOU.  Your kids might not
>agree. 

Generally I agree with Janis's position. But its a grey area. At what
point does teaching respect for the earth move into religion? What do
you do when your bright little 18 month old 'atmosphere barometer'
spontaneously joins in clearing up staleness in a room?

>Gotcha!  Just let the kid grow up with a sense of logic and rationality
>sbout the universe, and that the universe is open to questions, and that
>there are some things that you CAN get the answers to, and some things
>that no one yet knows the answers to, and some things beyond asking
>questions . . . They'll get the hang of it for themselves.

Yes, I agree. And yet - at what point does this become a tacit message
to the child, 'only that which is logical has validity, learn to
mistrust your feelings' ?

--
Chris Lilley
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technical Author, ITTI Computer Graphics and Visualisation Training Project
Computer Graphics Unit, Manchester Computing Centre, Manchester, UK
Internet:   lilley@cgu.mcc.ac.uk        Janet:   lilley@uk.ac.mcc.cgu
Voice:      +44 (0)61 275 6095          Fax:     +44 (0)61 275 6040
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: napalm@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (jason hill)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Body Paints
Date: 25 Jan 1993 01:24:14 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX
NNTP-Posting-Host: doc.cc.utexas.edu


try hana... its a brownish (altough the may have black)
its a arabic skin die that lasts about 2 weeks

although were youd find some i dont know

jason the partially informed

visualise whirled peas



Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: bbooth@bnr.ca (Bradley Booth)
Subject: Re: Pat Robertson
Originator: bbooth@bcrks6
Reply-To: bbooth@x400gate.bnr.ca (Brad Booth)
Organization: BNR, Ottawa, ON, Canada
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 16:57:04 GMT


cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
> tonya@csa2.lbl.gov (TONYA PUONCEY) writes:
> >I am so sick of this bastard.  He (1/20/93, 1.55 am) said that he
> >is against the (paraphrase) "Ahem. Moral scourge of premarital sex"
> >but It is a fact that he was passed over for Republican 
> >presidential nomination in 1988 because he married his girlfriend
>                                             ^^^^^^^ ^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^
> >out of wedlock (way out of wedlock, like 7 months!)
>  ^^^ ^^ ^^^^^^^
> 
> Ummm - huh?  Might you mean boinked? 

Based on Christian "morals," that's what he means.  If you boink
before wedlock (marriage ceremony), then you've married before
wedlock.


Cheers,

    __o     Brad Booth              | "If somebody feels really good
  _`\<,_    Bell-Northern Research  |  about who they are, they don't
 (*)/ (*)   Ottawa, Ontario, Canada |  feel threatened by what other
----------  bbooth@x400gate.bnr.ca  |  people are." - Dr. M. Rubenstein
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: txdv1@isuvax.iastate.edu (Angela KAY Rolling)
Subject: contradiction?
Reply-To: txdv1@isuvax.iastate.edu
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 23:18:23 GMT

>There is an irreconcilable logical contradiction between plain sense of
>the saying of Jesus recorded in Matthew 12:30 = Luke 11:23 (He that is not
>with me is against me) and Mark 9:40 (For he that is not against us is on 
>our part). Any questions?
Yes. How is this a contradiction? 
Parafrase/translation
1.who so ever is not with me is against me.
2.who so ever is not against us is on our part
on our part meens on our side or with us. 
so
2.who soever is not against us is with us
		  ^^^^^^^^^^^    ^^^^^^^
1.who soever is not with us is against us
		  ^^^^^^^^^   ^^^^^^^^^^
so both say the same thing. There are contradictions in the new testament
us one. It takes the weight out of an argument if your 'exsample' is false.

Elf-Kin
From: brenda@bigwpi.WPI.EDU (brenda)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Imbolg food
Date: 26 Jan 93 15:47:31 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
NNTP-Posting-Host: bigwpi.wpi.edu


I have Witches All, and the recipies for Imbolg therein... i could not
mail to the person who asked for them, so i will post it..

They suggest Viking smorrebrod, or open-faced sandwiches...
on buttered rounds of rye, pumpernickel, or white bread place:
Crisp bacon, tomato slice, ripe Camermbert cheese slice
Liver paste, an anchovy fillet, chopped onion
Shredded raw carrot, hard-cooked egg slice, chopped chive
Crabmeat, mayonnaise, fresh dill sprigs
Roast beef slice, tomato slice, raw onion rings
Sardines, prepared mustard, green olive slices
Chopped herring, sour cream, marinated beet slice
Smoked herring, watercress, finely chopped onion
Blue cheese, cucumber slice, chopped parsley
Cream cheese, tongue, sliced pickle

Glogg - Swedish hot wine punch - use spoons

1 quart dry red wine
1 quart port wine
1 cup seedless raisins
2 tablespoons grated orange peel
3 cardamon seeds, crushed
9 whole cloves
1 stick cinnamon
1.5 cups aquavit
1 cup sugar
1 cup blanched almonds

in a 6-quart enameled pot, mix together the wines, raisins orange peel, 
cardamom seeds, cloves and cinnamon. cover and let stand for thirteen hours.
Just before serving, add the aquavit and sugar, stir and bring to a full boil over a high flame. 
Remove from heat and add almonds...

:)

blessings
brenda


-- 
brenda@wpi.wpi.edu    "One of the witnesses MUST not be telling us      
box 1256, wpi          everything..."
worcester, ma                  ~an astonished Paul Drake, to Perry Mason   
****************************************************************************
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: deane@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Subject: Re: Peace Symbol, Runes
Reply-To: deane@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Organization: Brandeis University
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 06:32:14 GMT

Sigh. Let me clear up a few misconceptions Mr. Jensen has about runes.
The word "rune" itself means "mystery" or "secret", and Roman writers
(Tacitus, if memory serves) commented on the practice of using symbols 
cut or burned on pieces of wood for the purposes of divination on the part
of the ancient Germans. One current theory is that the Futhark was derived
in part from the North Italic alphabet (part of the larger family of 
Phoenician derived alphabets, of which the Roman alphabet is but one), and
not the Roman alphabet at all (see Ralph W.V. Elliot, "Runes", for example).
In any case, the practice of divination and using symbols to represent
concepts definately predates the use of symbols to represent sounds, not
only in Germany, but practically everywhere (I seem to recall the discovery
of an early alphabet in the middle east which in fact did use animals and
other natural objects to represent sounds - and it would not be suprising if
the users of such alphabets associated the letters not only with a sound but
also a quality derived from the animal depicted). It is in fact possible that
writing systems may have derived from such "magical" practices. In any case,
there is no longer any doubt that the runes were always used for divination,
alongside their use for writing. I am not going to get into a discussion as
to whether our modern interpretation(s) of rune symbolism is correct (esp.
as the rune system changed over time), but there is in fact a correlation
between the ancient names of the runes and the names of particular animals,
objects, concepts, and dieties. The runes were never a purely utilitarian
system of writing.

David Matthew Deane
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: mtf@vipunen.hut.fi (Antti Lahelma)
Subject: Re: music & stuff
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Date: 22 Jan 93 22:41:11 GMT

In <1993Jan19.235325.24437@news.cs.brandeis.edu> deane@binah.cc.brandeis.edu writes:

>Johnny Hedlund, on the subject of paganism, in its next issue. As for 
>Bathory, according to TFP, it started out as "Scandinavia's answer to
>Venom", but in its 3 latest albums has explicitly embraced norse paganism,
>and has introduced classical and folk elements into the music - this is

 Speaking of swedish pagan groups, there's a band called "Hedningarna"
(literally, "The Pagans") which is well worth mentioning, although it's
not neo-pagan and has little to do with the occult. Their music is folky,
and you'll find it under the sign "world music" in record stores, but it 
also has quite a lot of rock influences. Other influences include balkan,
karelian (eastern finnish) and medieval folk music and even a little bit
of blues. All in all, it sounds very pagan (well, to me at least) and
it certainly isn't any superficial we're-pagan-because-it-gives-us-publicity
trick. They sing mostly in finnish, so you'll miss the lyrics... but the 
lyrics aren't that pagan anyway, and they aren't a very important part
of Hedningarnas music. Their second album "Kaksi!" was released last year,
and became quite popular in world music circles, so it shouldn't be 
impossible difficult to find it.

--
Antti Lahelma		GNOTHI SEAUTON
mtf@saha.hut.fi		 TUNNE ITSESI	"Jumalat ovat pakanoille suosiollisia"
From: traite@dante.harvard.edu (Shirley Traite)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Five sides...
Date: 25 Jan 93 19:09:38 GMT
Organization: Harvard University, Statistical & Data Analysis Center

In article <108104@bu.edu> uni@acs.bu.edu (Shaen Bernhardt) writes:
>
>With regard to the five points of a five pointed star...
>
>When one considers the five points to represent the 4 "elements" and 
>"Spirit"  (i.e. earth water air fire spirit..)  Which points represent
>which elements?

It has never mattered to me.  I think of each point representing one
element and at the same time *All* five elements. 


>I would assume the top point to represent spirit.. but... ?
>
If you feel that it represents that for *you*  then you should
work with that representation. I feel that it is far more important to
do what feels right for *you*  rather than  adopt something just
because what might be written in any book or proclaimed as the way to 
view things by anyone else. (That's where the true power lies, IMOHO).

>Thanks in advance...
>blessed be.
>-- 
And Blessings to you.
___
Shirley Traite (traite@sdac.harvard.edu) |I only speak for myself.
Statistical Programmer                   |
SDAC/Biostatistics Dept.                 |
Harvard Sch. of Public Health            |

<> IT IS A VIRTUE TO HAVE AN OPEN AND INQUISITIVE MIND. <>
From: corun@access.digex.com (Corun MacAnndra)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Chinese Religion
Date: 26 Jan 1993 10:18:57 -0500
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: access.digex.com
Keywords: Lao Tzu, Chuang Tzu, Confucius


Murray,

Thanks again for a very concise (if not actually succinct <grin>) commentary.

I will now have to find the Cleary text of the I Ching. I've used Wilhelm/
Baynes for years now, and have gotten quite used to it, but have always
been a bit concerned about the English from German from Chinese translations.

Like you, I don't ask the oracle questions I could answer myself, and I
don't use it with anything like regularity. Whole years have gone by without
me picking up one coin or stalk. But in those times when I need a bit of
sage advice, I will toss the coins or stalks and read what is usually already
known to me.

As for Hoff, I'm reading the Te of Piglet right now, and I find it to be
filled with much more political commentary than his previous book. I'm
not sure how I feel about it yet, but then I'm only about halfway through
it right now. Guess I'll leave the jury out until I'm done.

Thanks again for your comments.

Bb,
Corun

-- 
===========================================================================
    Corun MacAnndra    |     What appears to be coming at you,
  Dark Horde by birth  |           is coming from you.
    Moritu by choice   |			J. Flanders
From: corun@access.digex.com (Corun MacAnndra)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Chinese Religion
Date: 24 Jan 1993 15:04:14 -0500
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: access.digex.com
Keywords: Lao Tzu, Chuang Tzu, Confucius

Murray,

Thanks for a very concise explanation of Lao Tzu vs. The Lao Tzu. I've had
the Wu translation for years, but the Cleary sounds interesting, as does
Hendricks.

BTW, do you ever use I Ching? I use it, but have never really talked to
anyone else who has. Since you have researched so many translations on
Taoist writings, perhaps you've done the same with the I Ching. I have
the Wilhelm translation, but will admit that it's the only one I've used.

Bb,
Corun

-- 
===========================================================================
    Corun MacAnndra    |     What appears to be coming at you,
  Dark Horde by birth  |           is coming from you.
    Moritu by choice   |			J. Flanders