HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tzs@carson.u.washington.edu (Tim Smith)
Subject: Re: Rank, Gender, and Homosexuality: Mombasa, (Wiener please read this)!
Organization: University of Washington School of Law, Class of '95
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 08:13:22 GMT

In article <706@blue.cis.pitt.edu> pmmst8+@pitt.edu (Paul M Mweene) writes:
>Arab culture is emulated and admired in Mombasa, and the fact that there is a
>long tradition of acceptable male homosexuality in many Arab countries is rel
>evant. Homosexuality is forbidden in the Koran (surah 4:20) but Arabic litera
>ture contains both jocular stories about h.sex such as those in the Arabian 
>nights and fine love poetry to h.sexuals. (Arberry 1965; Gigg 1963).

For an interesting look at Arab homosexuality, take a look at "The Delight
of Hearts" by Ahmad al-Tifashi, who was a 12th century Arab writer.  Gay
Sunshine Press publishes an abridged edition that contains just the five
chapters that deal with homosexuality.  ISBN 0-940567-09-1.

--Tim Smith
From: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: "White man's" AIDS
Date: 14 Dec 92 19:08:43 GMT
Reply-To: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology

>>>To start naming names, Alfred Machela is a Zulu gay activist [...]

>>When I read this nonsense you posted on Zulu culture, I could not
>>believe how ignorant and naive you were.

>Why should I believe you more than Alfred Machela?

I went down to the library (yes, sometimes I get that far out of my
armchair), and found John Middleton THE WORLD OF THE SWAHILI, a new
book.  He mentioned that homosexuality exists among the Swahili, but
not very much, and that any steady relationship is taboo.

So what do your Swahili friends say?
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se (Bertil Jonell)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: AIDS and all that jazz
Date: 16 Dec 92 09:05:06 GMT
Organization: Chalmers Tekniska Lekskola, G|teborg, G|taland

In article <704@blue.cis.pitt.edu> pmmst8+@pitt.edu (Paul M Mweene) writes:
>This is gabbage. Sodomy is an age old european occupation.
>They haven't stopped it since they began it in Sodom and Gomorrah.

  So Sodom and Gomorrah was peopled by Europeans?

>makala

-bertil-
--
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: johnson@whitewater.chem.wisc.edu (Art Johnson)
Subject: Re: "Reflections of an Affirmative Action Baby"
Organization: Physical Sciences Lab, UW-Madison
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 92 17:52:49 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.175442.2514@microsoft.com> johnhall@microsoft.com  
(John Hall) writes:
> In article solman@athena.mit.edu (Jason W Solinsky) writes:
> | For a non-racist, all workers, black and
> | white are equally qualified before AA. 
> 
> Before AA and before equal opportunity I'd have assumed the black
> was more qualified, not equal.  The barriers to achievement 
> (legal and social) were much higher, the opportunities were less,
> and so anyone who made it did it by being far better than everyone
> else.

     And by having the right political/social connections as well.
 
Arthur Johnson
johnson@whitewater.chem.wisc.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: lashlepi@newton.ccs.tuns.ca (Phillip Lashley)
Subject: Re: What's wrong w/ Our Skin Color?
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 22:57:21 GMT
Organization: Technical University of Nova Scotia, Halifax, N.S.

In article <1992Dec18.160815.1452@athena.cs.uga.edu> heath@athena.cs.uga.edu (Terrance Heath) writes:
B
>	I was surprised that I could still feel this way after so many
>years of trying to heal myself, but I find that there is still some
>internalized racism within me, that I turn against myself.  I think
>that living in a racist society (No matter how much things have
>changed, there is still some racism at the bottom of the whole thing)
>means that to some degree we all internalize some racism, both blacks
>and white. The difference is that internalized racism in blacks is
>part of what makes some of us hate ourselves (and or brothers and
>sisters) enough to believe we are worthy of wanting, or saving, even
>saving ourselves. (The same priciple can apply to women and
>internalized sexism, or gays and internalized homophobia).
[other gudd stuff deleted]
Terrance, i just read the posting by this guy about his experiences growing up.
The "racism" from black kids.  didnt have time to reply but gusss i have to type: where did those kids learn tose feelings. if your not trobling me i sure aint going for you. Seems like this is acquired........
Phil. Me. De i.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Advancing the discussion
From: galan@netlink.cts.com (Greg Gross)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 11:00:26 PST
Organization: NetLink Online Communications, San Diego CA

With a new year fast approaching, I think it's time we thought about 
advancing the discussion in this newsgroup.

The *we* in this case is black folks.

We already know what racism is, that it exists, and the impact is has on 
our lives, individually and as a people. And we've addressed all of that 
pretty thoroughly in this newsgroup.

It's time to take the next step and start looking for answers to the 
question: How can we advance as a people despite all of that?

The question accepts as a given that advancement is possible; we have 
only to figure out how and then do it.  We need to start kicking around 
some specific ideas, some possible solutions, weigh their merits and 
their weaknesses. In short, we need to start looking to the future, both 
immediate and long-term.

This is only one opinion, but I think the continued wrangling with the
Terry Parks-Jason Wolinsky-Seth Breidbart axis over affirmative action is 
a waste of time and bandwidth. Affirmative action is neither our problem 
nor the solution to it. 

Maybe someone could create a alt.flame.aa-whine newsgroup just for them. 
We have more important business in front of us, namely figuring out a 
path over, under, around or through the racism that holds us back.
G.

--
Gregory Alan Gross      Welcome to life, where no good deed goes unpunished.
San Diego Union-Tribune         (619) 293-1270 (voice)
P.O. Box 191                    (619) 293-2333 (fax)
San Diego, CA 92112-4106        galan@netlink.cts.com (Internet)
From: djohns@elm.circa.ufl.edu (David A. Johns)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: "Reflections of an Affirmative Action Baby"
Date: 16 Dec 92 19:13:48 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Florida, Gainesville

In article <1gappuINNf0s@bach.crhc.uiuc.edu> guillory@crhc.uiuc.edu (Stanford Guillory) writes:

[speaking to johnhall@microsoft.com (John Hall)]:

# AA has nothing to do with admitting people with lower scores than
# (others). AA has to do with making an effort to include minorities
# into your search process.

To be fair, that was its original intent, but in practice, it
certainly does result in AA students with lower entrance scores than
the general population.

But John Hall is still wrong.  The reason is that predictive test
scores are simply not valid across definable groups.  Other people
have posted statements to the effect that SATs have different
predictive power for whites and blacks, males and females, etc.  That
means that a given score does not mean the same thing in different
populations.

Affirmative action does *not* reduce admissions standards for the
simple reason that valid admissions standards do not exist.

# >Since we also know that blacks in general take a different
# >statistical mix of courses from other groups, your assertion
# >highly questionable.
#
# This statement, more than any other you have ever made has led me
# to wonder how you could ever have obtained a job at a company like
# microsoft.

I don't know what assertion John Hall was talking about, but I'm
curious as to why you take such exception to his claim about blacks
taking different courses.  It's very obvious here at the University of
Florida that blacks are seriously underrepresented in engineering and
liberal arts, for instance, as opposed to business, journalism, and
education (also agriculture, but that's mainly foreign blacks, and
human performance, which attracts athletes).

David


Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: chriswa@microsoft.com (Chris Waldron)
Subject: Re: "Reflections of an Affirmative Action Baby"
Date: 17 Dec 92 09:57:05 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation
Distribution: usa

In article <3066@devnull.mpd.tandem.com> dwelch@mpd.tandem.com (Dan Welch) writes:
>>
>Or to say it more plainly:  Blacks, as a group, are *not* poor.  There
>poor -- poor people.  AA, if it exists at all, should be income based,
>not racially based.  It is the only fair way to do it.
>                                                                               
>Unfortunately, people don't want fairness.  They want advantages.
>                                                                               
>Daniel Welch                                                            

Mr. Welch unfortunately YOU have it backwards.  Those who already have the
advantages wish to maintain their advantange.  Affirmative Action is NOT
race based!  Affirmative Action is a set of policies designed to INCLUDE
those groups that have been traditionally EXCLUDED.  In fact the media which
happen to perpetuate the AA myths that you happen to resonate is one of the
worst institutions at practising AA policies. In fact the biggest beneficiaries
of AA has been white people.  Preferences for Veterans exist in employment.
White woman has largely benefitted from AA programs.  White males has 
predominately benefitted from laws prohibiting age discriminations.

The Civil Rights debate and AA has been largely turned into a "black" issue
by the corporate-owned media.  What you have failed to realize that by 
adopting the racist tone of their argument, you are in fact operating against
YOUR OWN INTEREST.

Chriswa.
From: q2tj@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Ruling Class Tries to Co-Opt Malcol
Date: 17 Dec 92 22:29:58 EST
Distribution: usa,soc
Organization: Cornell University

HF.GTD@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gabrielle Daniels) writes: 
> .
> If black people are turning to their conservatives, as this rat is
> insisting, I certainly see no groundswell for him. [rat=sheblby steele]
>
	Hm....Shelby Steele is getting popular these days?
>
> I am about to puke. Henry K and Reagan on the same line as Malcolm?
>  Come on...

	I read the article too. (New Republic, Dec 21, 92)
 	I agree; the comparison was silly.
	The logic seems to be:

	Malcolm = Conservative,
	Malcolm = Good
    
therefore, conservative = good    ;-)

	Malcolm probably did have a bit of the "radical right winger"
	in him....but "conservative"????  that's stretching it. 

	I want to mention, that despite the weakness in the excerpt
	(which was only a tiny fraction of a very long article)
	there were also some merits to the article.  He was insightful
	to write about how Malcolm's angrier speeches (ever suggestive
	of violence) helped to create self-love (which is very important)
	among black peoples.  Also, mirroring white racist rhetoric, he
	helped started black-visibility (and dignity) 
	absolutely necessary for the
	rest of the history.

	(I don't think these are trivial observations)
	(At first blush, I might tend to think: "now, can one expect
	anything pure to come out of the "nastier" speeches???? but
	that self-love and dignity could come out of angry rhetoric
	and mirroring nasty white-rhetoric is part of the fantastic qualities
	of human nature) 
> 
> Actually Shelby Steele wishes he could slide off like Malcolm.  And
> he ain't getting off that easy. He'd have to be dead. And they don't
> kill folks like Shelby, you know?
> 

	You really think Steele is a Malcolm wannabee??? (just kidding)
	But if "they" really like Steele so much maybe "they"
	will do him the favor so he can be a hero too!
	Conspiracies within conspiracies within conspiracies... ;-) ;-)

Steve Seidman
From: betsys@cs.umb.edu (Elizabeth Schwartz)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Emitt Tills : Question
Date: 18 Dec 92 07:17:27 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Boston

Wow. If that was the first year that a Black person ever testified
against a White person in Mississippi, when was the first year that a
White person was ever CONVICTED in that state,  based on the testimony
of a Black person? Or, of a crime against a Black person?
  



--
System Administrator                  Internet: betsys@cs.umb.edu
MACS Dept, UMass/Boston               BITNET:ESCHWARTZ%UMBSKY.DNET@NS.UMB.EDU
100 Morrissey Blvd                    Staccato signals
Boston, MA 02125-3393                      of constant information....
From: djohns@elm.circa.ufl.edu (David A. Johns)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Institutional racism in education
Date: 15 Dec 92 19:29:28 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Florida, Gainesville

In article <1992Dec11.013128.8595@samba.oit.unc.edu> Terry.Parks@launchpad.unc.edu (Terry Parks) writes:

# When someone overlooks documented bold institutional racism and
# makes vague references to something they can't name, it brings the
# term slef-serving to mind.

True enough.  Just what is it you were trying to name?

David
From: bd@fluent@dartmouth.EDU (Brice Dowaliby)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Personal to KWAAME SHAKUR
Date: 11 Dec 92 15:56:17 GMT
Reply-To: bd%fluent@dartmouth.EDU
Distribution: usa
Organization: Fluent Inc., Lebanon NH


Kwaame, mail to you bounced.  Could you send
me a valid e-mail address so I can respond to your
e-mail?  

Thanks,
Brice
(bd%fluent@dartmouth.edu)
-- 
   Brice Dowaliby, Fluent Inc., 10 Cavendish Court, Lebanon, NH  03766
                         bd%fluent@dartmouth.edu        
             I don't speak for them, they don't speak for me
                              DoD # 0698
From: betsys@cs.umb.edu (Elizabeth Schwartz)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: What's wrong w/ Our Skin Color?
Date: 19 Dec 92 19:07:37 GMT
	<1992Dec18.160815.1452@athena.cs.uga.edu>
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Boston

That's the same kind of experience which is pushing me into this
group, from the other side. I think of myself as a "racist" because I
think it is a disease I have, like alcoholism. It poisons the way I
see other people and puts a cloud of suspicion and distrust around
relationships. I don't htink it's just me, though, I think I caught
this from our society and I don't knowhow much individuals can get
cured without curing the country too. 
  So far I've only seen two things that work at all; talking folks
one on one, and fighting for equal opportunity (I'm not going to get
into the argument about AA, but I will argue long and hard for better
grade schools for everyone! Kids in Boston don't have textbooks...but
don't start me...)
   Betsy

 
--
System Administrator                  Internet: betsys@cs.umb.edu
MACS Dept, UMass/Boston               Phone   : 617-287-6448
100 Morrissey Blvd                    Staccato signals
Boston, MA 02125-3393                      of constant information....
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: jac1@ra.msstate.edu (Jennifer Cox)
Subject: Racism in Sports
Organization: Mississippi State University
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 05:32:11 GMT



I saw an excellent show on ESPN today about racism in sports.
It discussed everything from black football players being accused
just being at a university to play sports while white students are said
to be there to get an education to minority coaches.
It was very well done and brought out different opinions by different
black and white experts.  It was interesting to heard the differences
in the views of experts of the same race.  

If you get a chance to watch it do.  

Jennifer
From: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Mweene Islands vs. Normal Islands
Date: 16 Dec 92 15:13:53 GMT
Reply-To: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology
In-reply-to: pmmst8+@pitt.edu (Paul M Mweene)

In article <705@blue.cis.pitt.edu>, pmmst8+@pitt (Paul M Mweene) writes:
>Although I could not find a homozygous lemba, one of my friends M. Mathoma
>a PhD student, is part lemba and grew up in the Lemba area. He comfirmed
>that you are speaking rubbish, again. 

There are Lemba claiming they might be a lost tribe of Israel, distant
relatives of the Ethiopian Jews.  They cite a few cultural traits that
have Jewish echoes.  One of them was lack of intermarriage with their
neighbors.

>I won't more time on this issue, since you are cleary so ignorant.
>You should know however that black people in South African are the
>blacks in Africa who have intermingled than anyther.

I know, all those "coloreds".  Considering that I did say that the Lemba
have intermingled in the last couple of generations, you yet again come
up with a proof of my ignorance by deliberately overlooking what I said.
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: willemsdawnm@bvc.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: wedding customs?
Date: 17 Dec 92 15:49:41 CST
Organization: Buena Vista College, Storm Lake, IA

I am currently doing a paper on wedding customs of different societies.  I
would appreciate any information anyone can provide for me.
Please send info to willemsdawnm.bvc.edu

thanks tons
dawn
From: bk577@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jane Bires Jiumaleh)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Fund for Somalia Refugees
Date: 14 Dec 1992 05:32:19 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


 
Belinda at the Somalia Mission to the UN says things are going 
better for them now (last time we talked she said the mission was
"just trying to hang on").  She gave me info on a fund for Somali
refugees and said the money goes to the refugees, not to administration.
Here's the Somali mission address:
 
       Somalia Mission to the UN
       425 E. 61st Street
       Suite 703
       New York, NY  10021
 
Here's the fund (as seen on CNN):
 
       Somalia Refugees Relief
       Acct. no. 01 41 13 73 15
       Chase Manhattan Bank
       825 UN Plaza
       New York, NY  10017
 
Please pass this information on.
 
Jane Bires Jiumaleh
BIRES@wisplan.uwex.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: llk@kepler.unh.edu (Local Genius)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: wedding customs?
Date: 18 Dec 1992 03:34:49 GMT
Organization: Department of Mathematics
NNTP-Posting-Host: kepler.unh.edu

In article <1992Dec17.154941.3061@peanut> willemsdawnm@bvc.edu writes:
>I am currently doing a paper on wedding customs of different societies.  I
>would appreciate any information anyone can provide for me.
>Please send info to willemsdawnm.bvc.edu
                                 ^
Oops! :-) :-)

>
>thanks tons
>dawn
I believe the address is willemsdawnm@bvc.edu, no?
Oh, well, I tried. :-(

MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE - WHOEVER IS LEFT STILL READING s.c.a.
My caps lock went on leave, I think! :-) :-)

-- 
lk(with the man in the yellow hat)              /\   /\
                                               /  \_/  \ 
%(%)(%)(%)(%)(%)(%)(%)(%)(%)                  /         \
%      llk@unh.edu         %                 /           \
%                          %             \__              __/ 
%  FAX : (603) 862 - 4096  %           Hamba  Ine,  Adada   Cha! 
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% 

Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: sastry@zpovc.enet.dec.com (JN Sastry)
Subject: Internet sites in DOUALA/LIMBE, Cameroon, West Africa???
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: 18 DEC 92 15:53:55 TIM

Hi folks

I need to know if there is a way to get the addresses of the
internet sites in DOUALA or LIMBE (in Cameroon, West Africa).

Thanks in advance for any help!!

sastry

Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: barnhart@ddsw1.MCS.COM (Mr. Aaron Barnhart)
Subject: IPS:SOMALIA: GANGS LOOT IN KISMAYU AS U.S. MARINES TAKE OVER CAPITAL
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 17:47:07 GMT
Organization: Evanston, Illinois, U.S.A.

Copyright Inter Press Service 1992, all rights reserved.  Permission to re-
print within 7 days of original date only with permission from 'newsdesk'.

Area: Europe, western
Reference: North America
Title: SOMALIA: GANGS LOOT IN KISMAYU AS U.S. MARINES TAKE OVER CAPITAL


nairobi, oct 10 (ips) -- fighting broke out thursday among armed
rival gangs in the southern somali port of kismayu soon after
u.s. marines landed in the country's capital, mogadishu, to
protect relief aid for starving somalis.

incidents in kismayu involved random shooting and looting
when the gangs tried to get what they could reach before the
arrival of the u.s. marines.

''we had to evacuate 13 relief aid workers from the town,
including seven staff of 'medicins sans frontiers' and two from
unicef'', said brenda barton of the world food programme.

but the international committee of the red cross (icrc) has
left six of its officials in the town, hoping the situation
would soon be under control.

''we will see how the situation develops'', said icrc
spokesperson jean luc noverro.

meanwhile, the united nations office for somalia here
thursday reported that there have been two shooting incidents in
mogadishu since the arrival of 17,000 u.s. marines.

in one incident an armed gang tried to run through a road
block and the marines opened fire. it was not clear whether
there were casualties on the somali side, but the u.n. office
confirmed none of the marines was injured.

the u.s. marines have already taken control of mogadishu port
and airport. the u.n. children's fund wednesday flew in 17
tonnes of food after the airport was secured.

preparations were going on in mogadishu for the arrival
thursday and friday of a multinational force to join the u.s.
forces.

a contigent of 150 french troops, an advance party of 2,000
troops pledged by france, is also already in the somali capital.

saudi arabia has also pledged a battalion of ground troops
which is expected to arrive in mogadishu next week.

a canadian naval ship, 'preserve' thursday called at mombasa
port in kenya on its way to mogadishu. canada is sending 13,000
troops to take part in the u.s.-led ''operation restore hope''
in somalia.

the canadians will try to secure the airfield at balodogua,
about 85 km west of mogadishu, which will be their base.
(end/ips/ha/ar/92)