From: khaikin@boa.cis.ohio-state.edu (dmitry khaikin)
Subject: Re: Conversion Question
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 06:15:48 GMT

In article <1992Nov19.010133.8108@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger) writes:
>dmitry khaikin writes:
>>Stan Krieger writes:
>>>Isaac Balbin writes:
>>>>Stan Krieger writes:
>>>
>>>
>>>I really don't give a damn ...
>>
>>That's what you should have put in the beginning of your post, so
>>everyone can just skip it. Because I really do give a damn what you
>>think and feel, so, I can understand things better and maybe try to open
>>your eys a little. That's the only reason why I even take time to write
>>all this. I do care alot about all Jews, that's jews - not goyim that
>>think they are jews, apperently you think by not "giving a damn" you care. 
>
>What do you mean "goyim who think they're Jews"?  If you're talking
>about people who chose to convert to Judaism according to the
>procedures that have been established, that for some technical
>reason, you (the great sage) don't recognize, then you have a lot
>of growing up and soul searching to do.  When you recite the Al Chet's
>next Yom Kippur, realize that they apply to you too, especially when
>"you" turn away someone that most of us have accepted.
>

Please do not get Yom Kippur into this, ok? Yom Kippur is the Holies Day
of the year and my favorite Day. And yes, I do think that applies to me,
and, as I hope you know, that no one in the world can think that it does
not. So, what you just said should probably be considered as
speculation.
As for the converting, yes, there is much more in Brith Milah then just
cutting someone's skin. It is spirutual. And see, here you say the thing
that I am telling you about movements like C. and R., that is, "most of
us have accepted." That's exactly right. Most of you let the goyim
effect your jewishness and that's scarier then being non-observant. I
wanted to say better, but it is not really true. It is better to be R.
or C. then non-observant at all. What is scary about all this is that
sooner or later you or your children will step even lower and then, G-d
forbid, will just get out of it. I know a lot of Reform people that are
xians now and have no idea about Judaism (nor about xnity). It is very
easy to say that THAT will not happen to you. Oh,no, never.... Well, I
hope not, but the facts are facts and you can't do anything about that,
or you can, but that's what I am trying to do. I even know people that
are Reform and used to laugh at the way Orthodox pray. They said it too
much and way too strict and they did not need to to that in order to
stay jewish. Well, two years after they said this to me they were
shocked to find out that their daughter is converting to xnity. Well,
you might call it just a coincidence, but I call it natural finish. And
it is finish for her.(I am in the process of trying to get her back,
but, boy, is it difficult.) Try to understand that if you are
Conservative you are already one step down, the next step is Reform, BUT
WHAT IS THE NEXT ONE, THERE IS NOTHING LEFT OF JUDAISM AFTER THAT.
Recently, I talked to one girl from an Orthodox family. She did not want
her parents to know but she does not really like Orthodox Judaism. She
likes Concervative more. I asked her why. Her answer was pretty much
that it is too hard and there is alot to do.(See, exactly what I told
you. It is here where it is comming from, from a wish not to do as much,
so, life can be easier a bit. Then, I hope it doesn't happen, when she
grows up, she will get smarter and will say that Orthodox simply
misunderstood what Torah said.) Then I asked her why doesn't she want to
become Reform? -:Oh, she said, I am not crasy, you look at them and they
look like (the next is exacly what she said:) a ch-rch. Yes, maybe they
do to her, but what this girl does not realize is that her children
might not consider it as a "c--h". They might consider it as something
that is just a little bit off and maybe easier. Then their children...
and so on. I don't want to even consider that possibility.
That's the biggest problem with C. and R. they don't stay with their
opinions they move further as the media (goyim) moves.
>>>As I've often said,
>>>if you don't want to recite Kaddish in a Conservative synagogue,
>>>that's your right, but it's not your right to advise someone that the
>>>mitzvah wasn't met because they recited Kaddish in a minyan of 6 other
>>>men and 3 or more women.....
>
>>Oh, great! Now Jews are taken away the right to advise another Jew about
>>Judaism. I am sorry, but does that imply that you can do whatever you
>>want and no one can tell you that it is wrong?
>
>Very simply, it is not "wrong" to recite Kaddish in a group of 10
>adults (male or female) to fulfil the mitzvah; therefore to "advise"
>Stan Krieger                 All opinions, advice, or suggestions, even

Even simplier, it is.

Thanks,
Dima
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  "A word is worth one coin; silence is worth two."_____ The Talmud.
  "Silence is good everywhere, except in connection with Torah."____ The Zohar.
   khaikin@cis.ohio-state.edu (Dmitry Khaikin, Columbus Ohio, USA)
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