HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dv52151@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Axly)
Subject: Re: Cyberpunk (was: SR: SRII combat mods)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 14:49:14 GMT

ins769v@lindblat.cc.monash.edu.au (Veltyen) writes:

>Hmmmm some stuff on deckers w/guns

>quote from Never deal with a dragon

>"This is the 2050's anyone with a brain has a gun"

>I ran my group through the stuffer shack senario once. Now how
>would you like a decker, a rigger, a journalist, a rockerboy
>in that senario. Acording to some of you the group should
>have no guns and no firearms skill.
>They would die.....
>(rem this was set coming home from a pub _not_ a run)

*Grin* I envy you if you have a group of players who will design a group
of characters like that.

I don't advocate NO firearms skill, just a reasonable 2 to 4 range, using 
at least a concentration. Deckers with LMG's make me cringe.          

I think one thing that doesn't get considered is that even the "Street" 
Samurai wouldn't have that much exposure to the heavy artillery equipment.
Unless the character's background indicateds time in the military, a security
firm, or a merc unit, then he/she shouldn't really have that great a grasp on
assault rifles and LMG's. I would say most Street Archetypes should have a
concentration in SMG, the most common street weapon in Seattle,  or Pistol, a
close second. Two benefits show up out of this, a better feel as far as  
roleplaying, and the slower archetypes like the Tribal Warrior and Merc are
actually useful as they go slower than the Samurai, but their heavy firepower
will knock down a target an SMG toting Samurai would only would.

>On projectile weapons.
>Not nessersarily tribals or primatives.
>One of my runners uses a folding arm compound bow
>reassons?
>	relatively high range
>	impact armor resistance
>	quiet (guns with _real_ good silencers might get close
>		to a well tuned bow.)
>	High strength (sorry he is a stealth freek PA)
>	High concealabilty (compared to guns with similar range)
>	Last but not least 
>		legal to carry by anyone.

You can even smartgun adapt a bow. A smartgunned Ranger X bow ( I know I have
one, how about you?) is one of the best weapons for removing pesky sentry 
dudes, and they just plain are cool...nothing can equal the expression on
the ironmongers faces when you start shooting arrows.

Axly

********************************************************************************
*   Axly      *  "Is Axly tough? Yes. Talented? Yes. Brave? Oh, certainly.     *
* Red Sword   *   He is also erratic, irresponsible, accident-prone, and a     *
*   Targa     *   constant threat to public safety. The trick is to keep him   *
*             *   pointed in the right direction. "                            *
*             *         -Niki                                                  *
********************************************************************************
From: gobeski8618@iscsvax.uni.edu (Steve 'Gobes' Gobeski)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Champions
Date: 30 Jul 92 16:31:41 -0500
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

In article <RATINOX.92Jul23103035@splinter.coe.northeastern.edu>, ratinox@splinter.coe.northeastern.edu (Richard Pieri/Stainless Steel Rat) writes:
>>>>>> On 23 Jul 92 13:48:09 GMT, jsalter@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (joshua
>>>>>> salter) said:
> 
> js> 	This weekend I was considering buying Champions, it looks good to
> js> me...  Is it a good investment? Flaws, Exceptional Parts?
> 
> Yes, a good investment if you enjoy cinematic, heroic gaming. If you're
> looking for "reality," go someplace else.
> 

Hero is realistic, Rat!  Champions/Hero plays *VERY* differently at 150 pt.
Heroic level than 250 pt level, having played under both, I can honestly say
that both work!!!!!!!  

-- Steve 'Gobes' Gobeski // GOBESKI8618@iscsvax.uni.edu  

Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: silber@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Ami A. Silberman)
Subject: GURPS skills, how good is good
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Distribution: rec
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 22:01:10 GMT

OK, how good is good for GURPS skills. In the job sections of some of
the source books (e.g., Cyberpunk), the top levels (such as big media
star) have levels of 14+ !. For ordinary pilot/driver they give 11+.
Clearly, this may be a little low. I'ld like to get a sort of net-concensus
of how good is good:
Rate the following (some notes on these):

Best tennis player atheletic game (tennis): 
(This would have some bearing on combat skills, I imagine
that you could handle a tennis game as a combat complete with feints etc.
It strikes me that for most characters I've seen even in SJG works, the combat
skills are all pretty high.)

Best singer - singing: (Frank Sinatra at his height, for instance.)

Best actor - acting and performance:

Shakespear: (or other "best" playwrite)

your favorite super hacker - computer programming

Stephen Hawking or Albert Einstein - physics

Leibnitz - mathematics, philosophy

Roger Penske - mechanics (race car)

Nigel Mansfield - drive (car, formula 1 car)

Anyway, I'ld appreciate some ideas on these. From what I've seen in the source
books, none of the writers have that firm a handle on them either.
(I know that someplace in the book it has a scale, but it seems a bit off
to me. I think that a 12 or so was proffessional, and a 14 or 15 was great,
but that means that a character with 16 int and a bunch of 1/2 point skills
could be a proffessional anything.)
Julia Child/James Beard - cooking
-- 
ami silberman - janitor of lunacy
	silber@cs.uiuc.edu
From: mh563b12@ducvax.auburn.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Anyone Heard of Rifts
Date: 27 Jul 92 19:24:42 GMT


	Sure Rifts can be easily played as a hack'n'slash, but to anyone very
creative it can become a real test of roll playing.
	i.e.
		Try being a shapechanger impersonating a CS imperial courier
with friends posing as your bodyguards inside of Chitown.  No armor or GB's
(that is Glitter Boys, which by the way can be really fun to play with) just
guts and cunning.

	The environment allows for a vast variety of playing from munchkinism
to playacting to exploring caverns (or cities, same thing, well almost :-)),
that's it's beauty.  If it is a compliation of most every other game, what's
wrong with that.  It allows players to choose to be whatever they want.  That 
seems a bit more creative than most games to me.
	
	To those who already play Rifts, I'm working on a scenerio that could
involve infltration of Lonestar, crossing the Pecos Empire, outsmarting
vampires, infiltrating a cult while not getting killed by them, and potentially
have a reward of 100+ pre-rifts Glitter Boys that are more than standard in
both technology and techno-wizardy.  I'd apprieciate any feedback as to
whether or not this sounds like it would be interesting to you and your gaming
group.

Thanks

Chris

P.S.
Please ignore any spelling mistakes.  I'm a pilot and physics student, 
spelling isn't my strong point.
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: cjudd@esk (Craig Thomas Judd)
Subject: Re: Anyone Heard of Rifts
Organization: University of Tasmania at Launceston
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 92 04:14:32 GMT

In article <0095E0DE.F76460C0@abby.chem.ucla.edu>, doug@abby.chem.ucla.edu writes:
>
>Yeah, I played RIFTS once.  ONCE.  If I didn't know better, I'd think
>the Palladium system was an evolutionary predecessor of *D&D.  I think
>that about sums it up....
>
>-Doug Gibson

The Palladium system IS related to D&D. Who cares? :-) What us isolated RIFTS
players want to know is what people thought of the setting, more than the
game system. At least, I do!

Yours characteristically;

-- 
   \/\ "Abide by the contract of blood and inherit me!" Grossporina, SM2 /\/
====\/\"Shit, it's that skinhead again!" Kaneda about Col., AKIRA Book 3/\/====
=====\/\      *** WANT ANY MANGA ARTWORK DONE? Just email me! ***      /\/=====
      \/\   cjudd@esk.compserv.utas.edu.au      a.k.a. Kuroto Shiro   /\/
From: a_copeab@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Best Super system
Date: 26 Jul 92 19:24:55 CST
Distribution: na
Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University

In article <14ksupINNiub@early-bird.think.com>, laird@think.com (Laird Popkin) writes:
> In article <54784@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> jacobus@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Bryan J. Maloney) writes:
>>In article <1992Jul22.161755.25460@news.columbia.edu> jhk6@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (John H Kim) writes:
>>>	The other thing to be careful of is cost ratios. For example, 
>>>damage generally costs 6pts per d6, whereas defense is 3pts per 1DR. This 
>>>means that attacks will tend to overwhelm defenses. Pair up a bunch of 
> 
> [complaints about DR and hit points being too expensive deleted]
> 
>>As I've said before, good ideas, but the system is still too broken to use.
> 
> As I've said before, the fix is simple -- make them cheaper if that's what
> you want in your campaign.  You're complaining about the value of a number,
> not the way the system works.

	I agree with Laird here -- you're arguing about point costs, not game
mechanics. If you want DR to be bought at a 1:1 ratio, go for it. SJG won't
show up at your gaming session, look over the character sheets, and tear up any
that are even slightly unofficial (we're not talking about T$R :-)).
	If the point costs don't fit what you want for your campaign, then
change them. But just because you have a problem doesn't mean that everyone
else has the same problem, or that others would change things the same way (for
example, I think that Extra Hit Points, for what you get, are too expensive;
however, long before I got Supers, I ruled that creatures with split HT died,
and made HT rolls, at -5xHP and -HP, but normal HT was actually used for the
rolls; this is no more valid or invalid than reducing the cost of Extra Hit
Points *in my campaign*).

Brandon Cope

"Mughi, the most dangerous creature in the universe...when he's awake." -- me

Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: matoh@lysator.liu.se (Mats \hrman)
Subject: Re: SR or T2000, or what's that rigger doing here?
Reply-To: matoh@sssab.se
Organization: 3S AB
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 09:48:04 GMT

dv52151@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Axly) writes:
[...]

>These characters aren't that abusive as they are going fairly slow. The
>problem starts when everyone is carrying an LMG for everything. The slow
>Merc used to do okay 'cause he had fantastic firepower. Now, everyone and
>his brother wants an LMG (or worse..the troll in our group says anything
>but a STONER!!! is too wimpy). I think the answer here is to move the
>adventure out of the Barrens where you can carry heavy artillery and
>move it downtown, where you get picked up for carrying a handgun that's
>too big. 

[...]

>This falls under the availability ratings in Shadowtech. If the GM wants
>the arms race to stay small, have the player make a Street Etiquette 
>to buy the  ammunition at the weapons availability rating. Also, enforce
>the Street Index. Make sure the players pay big bucks for big guns. Make
>sure they get into situations where it's drop the big gun or die "Gee,
>oh troggie bearer of a gyro mounted Heavy Machine Gun, you have been 
>tossed into the pool. Let the gun drop..or drown." 

[...]

So what happens then to the straight, vanilla by-the-book merc without
Street Etiquette. Is he impossible to play, or what?

				/"Regiment", merc.
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: thornley@cs.umn.edu (David H. Thornley)
Subject: Re: Huge Robots as weapons, are they valid? Does it matter?
Organization: University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, CSci dept.
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 14:18:55 GMT

In article <RATINOX.92Jul28081429@splinter.coe.northeastern.edu> ratinox@splinter.coe.northeastern.edu (Richard Pieri/Stainless Steel Rat) writes:
>>>>>> On 28 Jul 92 04:58:03 GMT, a481@mindlink.bc.ca (J.D. Frazer) said:
>
>> Richard Pieri/Stainles writes:
>> JF> So, we spend billions of dollars developing a 'mech that's only
>> JF> effective for cowing natives?
>> 
>> Veltyen has an excelent point. Which would scare *you* more, 45 tons of M1
>> Abrams rolling at you at 50mph, or 45 tons of humanoid, walking steel
>> bearing down on you at 50mph? I'd be more afraid of getting stomped on like
>> a bug than ground under steel tracks.
>
>JF> What it is, is a _silly_ point. If you're going to build an army of
>JF> 'mechs just to scare primitive natives, I wager that you'll lose any
>JF> war.
>
>I'm not talking about "primitives," I'm talking about *you*, "J.D. Frazer."
>Which would scare the bejezes out of you? Which is more likely to scare an
>infantry company sh*tless?
>
The tank is more likely to scare the infantry company.  In general, primitives
and civilians can be scared by the unusual and flashy (but how unusual is
a mech in these games?), but soldiers are scared by the militarily effective
and/or stuff they can't defend against.  An Abrams is going to be more
effective and harder to stop than a 45-ton humanoid, and therefore will
scare the infantry more.

>
>The way the military mindset tends to work is that they'll pay more money
>if they think it gives them tactical or psychological advantage. And as
>long as they *think* they have an advantage, morale is kept up.
>
Tactical advantage, yes.  I can't think of any case where the military has
spent gobs of money for psychological advantages.  These, in general, are
clearly subordinated to tactical considerations.

>Now, if you're going to argue strategy and tactics, *I* wouldn't use a
>Battlemech company against Iraq; I'd use more conventional forces (infantry
>and tank-hunting aircraft) and save the heavies for the (former) Soviet
>forces.
>
>JF> I was among the first to point out that Battletech is a fun game, but
>JF> I'll argue any attempt to justify it technologically, militarily or
>JF> economically.
>
>Tanks aren't econimical, either. They're incredibly expensive to
>manufacture and serious fuel hogs. Doesn't stop the world's armies from
>using them, now does it? :-)
>
Economy is not low cost, it's low cost for the effect.  Toothpicks are
cheaper than rifles, but it would not be economical to arm infantry with
toothpicks, as they would be good for nothing.  Modern tanks are
incredibly expensive, but also incredibly effective.  This makes them
very economical for countries with advanced economies, so people are
relatively expensive compared to manufactured goods.

Again, if you want to play with humanoid combat robots, or cartoon characters,
have fun.  Don't try to convince us that they're any more real than
dragons and wizards.

DHT


Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: swaim@owlnet.rice.edu (Michael Parks Swaim)
Subject: Re: ARM:  Twilight question
Keywords: Ars Magica, Twilight
Organization: Rice University
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 06:21:40 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.020400.23586@risky.ecs.umass.edu> hopcraft@spock.ecs.umass.edu (Geoffrey S Hopcraft) writes:
>On the subject of twilight and aging, I'm considering methods of once again
>allowing magi to use their vim knowledge in longevity potions. This would
>represent a magus who decided to forgo the process of controlling the aging
>within their bodies, instead simply keeping themselves alive and functional
>using raw magical energy.
>
>
>So, how about this:
>
>Vim longevity potions are made at the beginning of every decade of the magus'
>age (30, 40, etc). The magus must have a Muto Vim lab total of 2 per decade of
>age, plus 20. She must use one point of vim or muto vis for each five points
>(or fraction) of the lab total; extra vis may be used to increase the lab total
>as per Corporem longevity potions. Provided she takes the potions regularly,
>she does not need to roll on the aging chart; instead she loses a single
>characteristic point (her choice which) at age 40 and every decade thereafter.
>
>The magus gains twilight points as usual, although she is likely to enter
>twilight faster because of her need to study the art of vim.
>
>So, what do you think?

 There was a level 30 variation of the longevity potion on the mailing
list that provided twice the bonus, but also gave the recipient twice 
the twilight points. I don't remember whether the vis cost was doubled
or not. This method makes death by twilight much more likely. It seemed
to work OK, and we adopted it for our saga.
  You might also want to try a varient of the third edition aging rules,
where the potion provides +1/5 levels to your aging roll. (They also changed
the aging chart in 3rd edition.)


-- 
Mike Swaim            | "What izzis wunnderful thing? S' Beautiful
swaim@owlnet.rice.edu | I think I'll put my tongue on it." -Arthur
Rupp doesn't even know who I am,
 much less care what I think
From: millerl@wharton.upenn.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Dangerous Journeys -- Mythus is out
Date: 26 Jul 92 06:06:25 GMT
Organization: Newt World Order

I got one of the quiz items wrong. It isn't STREET, it's STEEP.

I haven't gotten any answers yet, any guesses?

-- 
whoah,
+++++++++++++++++++++++23
Loren Miller                           internet: MILLERL@wharton.upenn.edu
The more corrupt the government, the greater the number of laws -- Tacitus
From: doug@abby.chem.ucla.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: SR: Watch Out! The Decker's got a gun!
Date: 23 Jul 92 16:26:47 GMT
Reply-To: doug@abby.chem.ucla.edu
Organization: Department of Chemistry, UCLA

But what if the person got the cyberware, then became a physical adept?

-Doug Gibson
 doug@abby.chem.ucla.edu

Neither UCLA nor the National Science Foundation has a clue what I am doing.
They just pay me to do it.

"We have to tear you to shreds because we care." - EAC
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: seurer@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (Bill Seurer)
Subject: Re: Throw away your greatsword! ( Big vs. Small Weapons )
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 15:14:11 GMT
Reply-To: BillSeurer@vnet.ibm.com
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM Rochester

I don't think that greatswords need 5-7 feet of clear space around them.
The only description I have seen of one in use (not in a fantasy book)
said that it was held in front and moved in a circular pattern.  That
shouldn't require much more room than any other sword.

In an SCA combat or two I have seen this is also pretty much what was done.
The old crank-it-back-over-your-head-touching-the-ground-and-cleave-em
swing is probably pure fiction as it is such a slow blow that a foe could
walk away by the time it was done.  Of course if the foe was subdued or busy
fending off someone else and you DID manange to hit...

The problem you are having with big weapons is because of the abstractions
most games use for combat though some games with abstract systems (like Ars
Magica and even AD&D if you use the optional rules) still manage to
differentiate by adding a speed element.  Games with more detailed combat
(like GURPS) differentiate even more.
-- 

- Bill Seurer     Language and Compiler Development      IBM Rochester, MN
  Internet: BillSeurer@vnet.ibm.com    America On-Line: BillSeurer@aol.com
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: bz978@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Charles E Gibbs)
Subject: Need info for 2nd.Ed. SRUN
Reply-To: bz978@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Charles E Gibbs)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 21:17:35 GMT


Forgive me being asleep for a little while, but can anyone tell me
when the above product will be released and its estimated cost.

C. Gibbs
From: tsang@cs.washington.edu (Donald Tsang)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Champions--Mental Flashes
Date: 24 Jul 92 23:23:26 GMT
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, U. of Washington, Seattle

In article <> bz978@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Charles E Gibbs) writes:
>
>To the extent that the mentalists in my campaign are starting to get
>cocky, I was thinking about using Flash vs.mental senses, but there
>isn't much on ECV flashes.  

I guess I don't understand what you mean.

Mental powers require "line of sight" (perception with a targeting
sense) Typically, this will be either Normal Sight or Mind Scanning.

A Flash bought vs Sight group will obviously take care of the first
case; Flash bought vs Mental group should take care of the second.  You
always have the option of buying "based on ECV" for the standard +1,
but you're almost certainly better off taking it "still works on Flash
Def (mental)".

An interesting idea would be to buy "Flash vs Mental, based on ECV,
Damage Shield".  Hmmm... maybe Mentalists should start buying "Mental
Flash Defense"?


As for mentalists getting cocky... a large Area Effect Suppression of
Psychokinetic Powers and a bunch of Automata (robots, skeletons,
whatever) work wonders.  Inobvious Automata work even better (zombies,
robots in "suits of armor", etc).

Another clever thing to do is to buy a bunch of mental defense "not vs
Ego Attacks" (-1/2), or buy some Mental Defense, and then Damage
Reduction vs Mental Effects (20 pts gets you 50%).

-- 
Donald Tsang                    "Ho!  Haha!  Guard!  Turn!  Parry!  Dodge!
tsang@june.cs.washington.edu     Spin!  Ha!  Thrust!"
..!uw-beaver!june!tsang                       -- Robin Hood Daffy
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: u9035281@cs.uow.edu.au (Paul John Davis)
Subject: REVIEW wanted of SRUN 2
Organization: Dept of Computer Science, Wollongong University, Australia
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 00:51:28 GMT

	Will someone please post a review of SRUN2 compared to SRUN1 and as a
normal style review?
	Thanks heaps chummers.
-- 
   	Paul Davis, [RENEGADE]	u9035281@wraith.cs.uow.edu.au
	University of Wollongong Simulation Games Secretary
	"You can't be dead. 		Yet.
	 I've still got more bullets left."	 Maverick in Xmen 11
From: jacobus@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Bryan J. Maloney)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Dangerous Journeys terminology
Date: 27 Jul 92 23:40:19 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center




I may want to pick up this game after I look it over, if I read the terms
I've seen aright.


"Heka" looks to be a direct descendent of the word "Hekau", which is the
closest thing the ancient Egyptian language comes to having a word for 
"magic" (as we would understand "magic").

Could Gygax have actually been doing some research to make this magic system
if not plausible, then as self-consistent as would be any "real-world" 
ideas of magic?
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: silber@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Ami A. Silberman)
Subject: Re: Point or Random Systems, What about both?
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 21:02:51 GMT

mkkuhner@phylo.genetics.washington.edu (Mary K. Kuhner) writes:

>Having both point and random generation for the same system is a
>possibility, but one or the other is likely not to work well.  If you
>design the system with random generation, you know that some characters
>will have much higher attributes than others with no compensation, so
>you know that you have to insure that even low-attribute characters will
>be playable.  With point generation, this is not the case.  Conversely,
One system that seemed to mix well was Space Opera. Stats were 1 - 19.
You generated them by rolling percentile dice and cross-referencing with
a table, so for most stats a 01 gave you a 1, a 02-03 gave you a 2 etc.
Usually a 50-59 gave you about a 12. Depending upon your class, you could
add something like 30 points to the percentile dice rolls for several of
your stats. Skills were purchased based upon stat totals and years of 
pregame experience. The stats mostly figured in as determining maximum
skill levels.
-- 
ami silberman - janitor of lunacy
	silber@cs.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc