HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: till@acid-rain.lucid.com (Don Tillman)
Subject: Re: what exactly is a small stone
Reply-To: till@lucid.com
Organization: Lucid, Inc.
Date: 26 Jan 93 02:11:06

   From: aki+@cs.cmu.edu (Yoshiaki Ohshima)
   Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
   Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 22:28:49 GMT

   Indeed, EH's Small Stone is a phase shifter, but that doesn't account
   for why it sounds a bit different from other phasor pedals. The
   original poster incidentally described it as "cool underwater" swish.

   The secret is the circuit.

   As far as I know of, it is the only design that used OTA's

It does!?!?  Fucking cool!  I had no idea.  

(OTA chips are obscure, quirky, and wonderfully useful for audio and
electronic music applications.  Earlier this year I was messing around
with some ideas of how to use OTA chips and came with this incredibly
cool phase shifter OTA circuit -- the circuit was so simple that I
couldn't believe that it hadn't been done before, but I sure as hell
had never seen it.  So, Electro-Harmonix beat me to it by a couple
decades, eh?)

							     --if I
   recall correctly it was RCA 3080A or its dual version 31600--at the
   shifter circuit, whereas ordinary phasor pedals employ either FET's or
   photocouplers as the voltage controlled resistance to form a CR
   network for each shifter stage. 

CA3080 is the single version
CA3060 is a triple version
CA3260 is a low noise, low distortion, dual version.

Well, let's see, the guitar player in my band has a Small Stone.
"Hey Dan, can I borrow that for a second?  Thanks."...
Okay, I just ripped it apart... 

Oh, this is cute, the chips are all 8-pin jobs custom screened
"EH104B" so you can only tell what they are from the circuit context.
Wow, if I hadn't known this was an OTA circuit I would have had a hell
of a time figuring this baby out.

[Scribble, scribble, scribble...]

Okay, the chips are apparently CA3094s, single OTA's with a darlington
emitter follower buffer stage immediately following.  Pretty cool
circuit -- maybe even a little cleverer than the one I came up with.

Pretty damn cool, man.

  -- Don


Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.bass
From: v035550@stortek.com (Steve Monroe)
Subject: "Dean Peer featured on radio"
Originator: v035550@stcvax
Organization: Storage Technology Corp.  Louisville, CO
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 21:37:12 GMT

         


   "Music From The Hearts of Space"
    will be airing a special called 
             'Space Bass.'

           Featured in this
      radio show will be bassist 
      Dean Peer  with selections
        from his CD 'Ucross.'
                

        Check local listings for
            broadcast times
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.bass
From: mbrewste@gluttony.us.oracle.com (Mark Brewster)
Subject: Cleaning Bass Strings
Reply-To: mbrewste@us.oracle.com
Organization: Oracle Corp., Redwood Shores CA
Distribution: world,local
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 00:21:32 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.



Hi Folks,

I'm wondering if there is a way to clean bass strings.
I bought some DR's not too long ago and they sounded great but now they aren't so bright.

A friend of mine told me that he read somewhere that you can clean bass strings by
boiling them in vinegar!!!  Sounds cool to me, has anybody else heard of this and if
so.  How long do you boil them for - (i.e. till soft, a dente, etc.), how much vinegar should
I use?

If this is not a good method can some one reccommend what to do?  If you can't how long
should a set of strings last if you practice a 3-5 times a week?  

Thanks muchly..

Mark B.
From: georged@meaddata.com (George Dibos)
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.bass
Subject: Are Hartke Speakers "Delicate"?
Date: 25 Jan 1993 15:06:55 GMT
Organization: Mead Data Central, Dayton OH
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: talon.meaddata.com

Greetings net.  My amp/speaker search is winding down, and I will
probably purchase something this coming weekend.  Thanx again for
the numerous posts and E-mailings which have helped tremendously.

Thus far, I've decided that:

  1.  I don't really want a combo amp after all, for flexibility
      and upgrade reasons.

  2.  I *DO* want an array of smaller drivers for flat response,
      transient reponse, and clear tone.

  3.  Add cabs for more loudness, not larger drivers.

      (Both net opinion and my own ears made for decisions #2 & 3)

  4.  Go with a premium brand like Trace-Eliott or SWR for
      robustness of construction and servicability.

  5.  Go with either an all-tube amp or a hybrid (because their
      tonal warmth *is* something I can hear, and is important to
      me.)

  6.  When in doubt, buy headroom!


Which leaves me pretty much down to some combination of TR or SWR
4x10 cab (probably with horn), and either TR's QuatraValve head, or
SWR's SM400.

But I keep hearing intriguing things about Hartke cabs...   Midwest
Music in Cincinnati says that they won't carry them because although
they sound *great*, they're extremely easy to fry because of their
(relatively) low power-handling capability.  And they don't want/need
the hassle.  

Everything they've told me thus far about everything *else* has been
straight, as far as I've been able to determine, so I'm inclined to
believe there's some truth to this, but...

Careful, cynical, and suspicious I definitely am regarding "things
sellers say", so,

What's the Bottom Line, net?  Webb?  (You have Hartke in your .sig)

Personal experiences ONLY, please, not something you've simply heard.
Cutting through rumor is the POINT of this request.

Thanks again!!!  (Other than to announce what I finally bought, this 
is my final request for info on this topic...)

George




-- 
+---------------------+--------------------------------+-----------------------+
| George Dibos        | Views expressed are my own.... | (513) 865-1689        | 
| Mead Data Central   +--------------------------------+ Software Engineer     | 
| P.O. Box 933        | Every day I drink a toast to   | NGS Update/Data Svcs. |  
| Dayton, Ohio  45401 | the wonders of beautiful women | georged@meaddata.com  | 
+---------------------+--------------------------------+-----------------------+
From: grego@bit.UUCP (Greg Sanguinetti)
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.bass
Subject: Re: The great speaker debate: 15 vs 18
Date: 25 Jan 93 02:26:35 GMT
Article-I.D.: bit.571
Reply-To: grego@bit.UUCP (Greg Sanguinetti)
Organization: BIT  Portland, OR

In article <TILL.93Jan22003258@acid-rain.lucid.com> till@lucid.com writes:
>Of all the things that contribute to the sound, the diameter of the driver
>is probably of absolute least importance.  Far more important are various
>driver parameters, the cabinet type, cabinet size and tuning, how the
>cabinet matches with the speaker, and the high frequency properties of the
>speaker.

Except in reality, at least available reality. When I go and try out
different cabinets there are very distinct differences between the cabinets
with 10's v.s. 15's or 18's. Even with very similar cabinet designs. Take
the SWR line for instance. I noticed a world of difference switching between
the 4x10, 1x15, 1x18 models. The 15 v.s. 18 was not as noticable as the
change in detail between the 4x10 and the 1x15. The cabinets with the
multiple, smaller drivers produced a crisper sound with much better attack.
This was true even with the horn turned off.

This is also true with 4x12 cabinets. I noticed this with Peavey cabinets
also. I don't think it's just the SWR gear.

I used to think that I would biamp with a 15 or 18 on bottom but I have
since changed my mind. I would (if I could!) use a 4x10 for the bottom
and a 2x10 or 4x10 on the top.

There is also some intuitive technical factors, like the larger the cone the
harder it is to keep it under control. The edges flex more, the voice coil is
stressed more,... A lot has been written about this over the years. It seems
like for bass, the arrays of smaller drivers provides the tighter sound, if
that's what you want. There are limits, the drivers have to be big enough to
handle the low frequencies. 8 inch speakers are probably pushing it.
I would like to try out the SWR 8x8.

On the other hand, any driver or combination of driver can be made to sound
bad with a bad design. This is all assuming that the drivers and cabinets
are well designed and manufactured.

-grego
-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Grego Sanguinetti, Bipolar Integrated Technology | Water, water everywhere,
grego@bit.uucp or grego%bit%ogi.cse.edu          | but I'd rather drink
or bit!grego@ogi.cse.edu or ...!ogicse!bit!grego | beer.
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.bass
From: gw214790@LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Galen Watts)
Subject: Re: The great speaker debate: 15 vs 18
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 16:06:36 GMT
Organization: You must be joking.

In article <1993Jan21.205821.29362@leland.Stanford.EDU> whale@leland.Stanford.EDU (Stephen Schmidt) writes:
>As a broad general principle, an 18 inch driver will respond better at very low
>frequencies than a 1x15. Particularly, it should roll off at a lower critical
>frequency.
>That said, the shape of the cabinet, materials used, and amp signal can vary
>so widely that in practical terms the above statement doesn't really mean
>much.
>Steve Schmidt			<><		   whale@leland.stanford.edu
>I can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration, Communist
>indoctrination, Communist subversion, and the international Communist
>conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids!

I must say I'm in total agreement, even with the fluids stuff.

I currently play thru two 15's in a tuned cab.  I used to use one 15 and
one 18, but the 18 blew and I haven't got it reconed yet.

A properly tuned 18 has slightly more low end than a properly tuned 15.
I say this from experience, a limited experience at that.

The key words I wish to emphasise are "PROPERLY TUNED".  Most music store
boxes are run off a few hundred at a time, and quality control may be tight,
but hardly ever tight enough th satisfy Thiele and Small.

I build my own, and I have excellent results.

Just one man's opinion
Galen Watts, KF0YJ
A non-political kind of guy.
From: napier@cs.ucsd.edu (Jim Napier)
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.bass
Subject: Re: Color pickguards - where to buy?
Date: 20 Jan 1993 20:32:32 GMT
Organization: AMES Dept., UC San Diego
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: sierra.ucsd.edu


In article <Jan.15.08.17.34.1993.19469@gandalf.rutgers.edu>, rgonzal@gandalf.rutgers.edu (Ralph Gonzalez) writes:
|> 
|> I want to replace the white pickguard on my Fender Jazz bass. Does
|> anyone know where you can get color replacement pickguards?
|> 
|> I guess the alternative is to find some spray paint which will stick
|> well to plastic and won't wear off easily...
|> 
|> Regards,
|> ralph
|> -- 
|> Ralph Gonzalez, Computer Science, Rutgers Univ., Camden, NJ
|> Phone: (609) 757-6122; Internet: rgonzal@elbereth.rutgers.edu
|> --

Another alternative is to check out local plastics manufacturers/distributors
and buy a small sheet of whatever suits you and make your own. It's a bit
more work but you have the choice of picking something that might make your
guitar look a bit different. Just a thought.

Jim
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.bass
From: ssmith@ringer.cs.utsa.edu (Sammie L. Smith)
Subject: Re: Are Hartke Speakers "Delicate"?
Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 14:48:53 GMT

In article <1k1fd4INNsp@seven-up.East.Sun.COM> ama@marley.East.Sun.COM (Al Amaral - SunSelect) writes:

 --- stuff deleted ---

>
>I NEVER listen to negatives that salespeople have to say about equipment 
>that they don't sell, and notice how they rarely have any negatives about
>their own equipment.  When was the last time you heard a salesman say "Gee,
>this "Flurple" I sell is a good piece of equipment, but that "Barnsnerf" that
>the guy up the street sells, now that's what you REALLY ought to buy!"?
>When was the last time you heard a salesman say "Oh, ya, we carry those
>"Mumbledorfs", but I won't sell one to you, they are such junk".  It's 
>just not in their best interest to tell you that equipment that they 
>can't sell you is as good or better than what they have.  It's their jobs 
>to sell their equipment, not to give honest candid advice on what's best 
>in the industry.
>
>Find someone who sells Hartke and talk to them.  Call the Hartke distributor
>and ask for information.  Find out for yourself, but don't take the word
>of the salesman at Midwest Music.  I'll bet that if they started selling 
>Hartke then Hartke would suddenly become the best thing since sliced bread...
>
>-- 
>--------------------------------------------------------------
>Al Amaral				Al.Amaral@East.Sun.COM

I agree totally.  In addition, it is particularly tempting to bad-mouth
items which are readily available through mail-order (such as Hartke
through Musician's Friend).  Just try to find a music store employee who
has good things to say about Carvin, for example.


-- 
When the going gets weird, the weird go pro. |    ssmith@ringer.cs.utsa.edu
                                             |          "I'm the NRA!"
                      Dr. Hunter S. Thompson |           Sam L. Smith
From: arkos@theory.chem.ubc.ca ()
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.bass
Subject: Re: Thanks for Amp advice
Date: 25 Jan 1993 21:57:07 GMT
Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada
NNTP-Posting-Host: theory.chem.ubc.ca
Summary: Thanks for the advice!!

Hi!  Just wanted to thank all those folks out there who
sent me/posted advice on hunting for small practice amps
(this is about a month back or so).  I finally found a 
small used Peavey Minx, and it's pretty perfect for doing
what I want just now (plus, the neighbors in the apartment
haven't complained! :-) 

Thanks again for your helpful hints, etc!
 
--Greg
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.bass
From: pturner@sedona.intel.com (Pete Turner)
Subject: Re: Compressor Pedal vs Rack Mount
Originator: pturner@sedona
Organization: Intel Corporation
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 16:43:40 GMT


In article <1993Jan20.165816.5119@wkuvx1.bitnet>, shroymp@wkuvx1.bitnet (Mike Shroyer ) writes:
> 
> 	I finally got enough money to afford a compressor.  I am
> interested in everybody's opinion on a pedal as opposed to a rack
> mount.  Price is still a consideration unfortunatly.  Would a good
> pedal be better than a cheap rack mount?  

...oh no! Pete's gonna add his $0.02 again!

Okay, here's the word: in short (and in general), I've discovered that 
*any* rack-mount effect (made by every manufacturer I have encountered 
to date) makes a better effect than any floor/pedal effect I've found 
(with very few exceptions mind). For some reason, rack-mount equipment
seems to stand the test of time as well (personal experience).

Now add Axiom I: If bass player A were to spend his cash on signal effect
		 B and it sucks, he/she is gonna wish that they had saved
		 the money and just gone with the more expensive and better
		 sounding unit in the first place.  Q.E.D.

Translation (and I mean this sincerely): 

	     plug them both in at the local music shop, then play. Switch
	     between the two units and let your ears be the judge -- why?
	     Because (ultimately) your pocket/wallet will recover, but
	     your ears will have to listen to "that" sound forever (or
	     until you save up more cash to buy what you should have got
	     in the firstplace).

	Clues from the key of life (as well as night classes at the
	School of Hard Knocks! ;-)

	Laterness!

	Pete

-- 
 ______________________________________________________________________________

 Pete Turner              | "I'm not looking back -- but I want to look
 Intel Corporation        |  around me now"
 5000 W. Chandler Blvd.   |
 M/S CH3-36               |  -- Geddy Lee/Neil Peart
 Chandler, AZ 85226       | ---------------------------------------------------
 pturner@sedona.intel.com | "...yeah, I've been to Phoenix...they call that
 ATT: (602) 554-8906      |  place 'The Valley of the Sun'...they should call
 FAX: (602) 554-7281      |  it 'The Surface of the Sun'!..."
                          |
 Zeta Psi - Gamma Chapt.  |  -- Some unknown late-night comic
 ______________________________________________________________________________
From: grego@bit.UUCP (Greg Sanguinetti)
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.bass
Subject: Re: Are Hartke Speakers "Delicate"?
Date: 26 Jan 93 17:28:40 GMT
Article-I.D.: bit.574
Reply-To: grego@bit.UUCP (Grego Sanguinetti)
Organization: BIT  Portland, OR

In article <1k0vmfINNrg5@meaddata.meaddata.com> georged@meaddata.com (George Dibos) writes:
>But I keep hearing intriguing things about Hartke cabs...   Midwest
>...
>Careful, cynical, and suspicious I definitely am regarding "things
>sellers say", so,
>What's the Bottom Line, net?  Webb?  (You have Hartke in your .sig)

I tried them before I got my SWR and I didn't like the sound. It was
a lot harsher. I have heard some folks use them, like Victor Wooten,
and they made them sound great. But my experience was that other
vendors cabinets, like Eden and SWR, sounded much better.

-grego
-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Grego Sanguinetti, Bipolar Integrated Technology | Water, water everywhere,
grego@bit.uucp or grego%bit%ogi.cse.edu          | but I'd rather drink
or bit!grego@ogi.cse.edu or ...!ogicse!bit!grego | beer.
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.bass
From: klcummin@uncc.edu (Kieth L Cummings)
Subject: Re: going fretless
Reply-To: klcummin@uncc.edu
Organization: University of NC at Charlotte
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 17:05:08 GMT

The key to any bass is its feel and tone right?  You probably like the feel of your striker and you love the tone.  A competent luthier can convert you bass at a fraction of the cost of buying a new one, and you can be assured of its feel and tone.  I had this done with a Schecter P-bass after I bought my Clifton (still waiting to hear if anyone has ever seen another one of these), and the result was fantastic.  Basically they removed the frets and replaced them with plastic slivers.  As I started on elect

ric not stand-up, the instant fret markers are invaluable to learn freetless work.
By the way I really don't care how my gear looks, but if you do and are concerned that some stand-up bass player is going to call you a "wuss" for having markers on a fretless then you better spend the extra $500 for a new bass.  But otherwise. I have had no problems with it.
Note: Do not let your tech just grind down the frets.  As the fingerboard will be getting more wear, those brass frets will start to buzz again.



Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.bass
From: gw214790@LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Galen Watts)
Subject: Re: Cabinet tuning
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 22:12:33 GMT
Organization: Colorado Concert Sound
Keywords: Tuning

In article <-yn3cwl@rpi.edu> battlec@cs.rpi.edu (Clark Battle) writes:
>Forgive My ignorance but how do you tune a speaker cabinet?
>Are there designs for pre-tuned ones avaliable?

To answer the second question first, there are designs available, but they 
are not pre-tuned.

Now the first question.
If the speaker is in an infinite baffle cabinet (no ports or passive radiators)
the only way to tune the box is to vary the volume.  Infinite baffle cabs
are not very popular for large applications because the box needs to be 2-3
times as big as a vented design.
If the speaker is in a vented box, you will have two peaks on the impedance
curve.  One will be below the box design frequency and one will be above.
Using a port with the at least the minimum area prescribed by the driver,
you vary the volume of the port until the two impedance peaks are the same.

A much more detailed explanation is contained in:

"Loudspeakers in vented Boxes, parts I and II"
	by A.N. Theile, May and June 1971, Journal of the Audio Engineering
	Society or pp. 181-204, AES Loudspeakers Anthology vol 1

"Vented Box Loudspeaker Systems, parts I-IV"
	by Richard H. Small, June- October 1973, Journal of the Audio Eng. Soc.
	or pp. 316-343, AES Loudspeakers Anthology vol 1.

If you chew thru these articles, you'll know much more than you need to
about vented box designs.

As for why the designs that are available are not pre-tuned, commercially
available drivers (JBL, Gauss, EV, etc) have data called "THIELE-SMALL
PARAMETERS" that help you design the box.  Unfortunatly, the variation
in the T-S params that these companies QC dept lets thru are too much
to let you cut the vent ahead of assembly.
I believe it was the Thiele article that said " you design the box from
the data that you get from measuring the speaker in the box" or something
to that effect.

I've built many vented boxes with everything from an 18 to a 5 inch driver
and even though I measure the T-S params myself ahead of time, there are
things like the friction of the air in the vent and leaks in the box that
you cannot take into account ahead of time and so you "tune" the box by
varying the vent volume.

A real good book for those of you with access to a table saw would be
"Building Speaker Enclosures" by Don Davis and Alex Badminov.
Altec used to have a book with plans and ways to tune but the title
escapes me at the moment.
Also try a magazine "Speakerbuilder."  I don't get it regularly anymore,
but it was a big help.

Good luck,
Galen Watts
From: eijkhout@cupid.cs.utk.edu (Victor Eijkhout)
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.bass
Subject: Re: what exactly is a "small stone"?
Followup-To: rec.music.makers.bass
Date: 23 Jan 93 17:33:03
Organization: /pearl/homes/eijkhout/.organization
NNTP-Posting-Host: cupid.cs.utk.edu
In-reply-to: pfaff@cbnewsi.cb.att.com's message of Sat, 23 Jan 1993 14:46:50 GMT

In article <1993Jan23.144650.25423@cbnewsi.cb.att.com> pfaff@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (john.s.pfaff) writes:

   my guitar player has one of those old electro-harmonix "small stones",
   which has a really cool "underwater" sound.  i'd like to get one for
   my bass, but i doubt the actual small stones are still available.
   what is the technical/functional name of this thing?  i imagine the
   effect is available under some other name.  any ideas?

It's a phaser, and electro-harmonix has indeed gone belly-up a long
time ago. You can get other phasers, but they ain't the real thang.
Electro-harmonix in particular made a flanger (the Electric Mistress)
that is still unsurpassed. imho.

Does anyone have Electro-Harmonix effects that they want to
sell? I'm looking in particular for a 'Bass Balls'.

   john
--
Victor Eijkhout ................................ `There are also a few bugs,
Department of Computer Science .......... though not as many as I've come to
University of Tennessee ............... expect in new [MS]Windows products.'
Knoxville TN 37919 ................................ (from a software review)
From: tom@cpac.washington.edu (Tom May)
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.bass
Subject: Re: what exactly is a "small stone"?
Followup-To: rec.music.makers.bass
Date: 24 Jan 93 10:12:20 GMT
Organization: The name of the band is Slip.
NNTP-Posting-Host: bailey.cpac.washington.edu
In-reply-to: pfaff@cbnewsi.cb.att.com's message of Sat, 23 Jan 1993 14:46:50 GMT

In article <1993Jan23.144650.25423@cbnewsi.cb.att.com> pfaff@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (john.s.pfaff) writes:

   my guitar player has one of those old electro-harmonix "small stones",
   which has a really cool "underwater" sound.  i'd like to get one for
   my bass, but i doubt the actual small stones are still available.
   what is the technical/functional name of this thing?  i imagine the
   effect is available under some other name.  any ideas?

It's a phase shifter.  They are available used; I've seen them around
here.  Maybe your guitar player will sell you his :-)
--
Tom
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.bass