HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: msg7038@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Michalis  Syrimis)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: Time Criticized??
Date: 15 Oct 92 23:10:16 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.Bw6r16.FMp
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

scgeoff@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (GEOFF ELLIOTT) writes:


>Well, well, well.

>So when you all don't like an article in Time you want to boycott it?

>Why do I feel that if an article would ever appear criticizing Turkey, you
>would accept it as the gospel truth?   Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm????

I would only comment this part of your posting.
Turkish military has been killing innocent Kurd civilians for almost
a year now, since last July or August (1991), Ihave not seen any
article in Time, or the slightest mention in CNN news about it.

What I want to say, is that neither Time nor CNN ever mentions
things happening in Turkey, which have to do with killing,
opressing, or violatin human rights of Turkish or other kind of people
by the official Turkey.
  
On the other hand Time, especially, never fails to present
Turkey as the saviour of people, Iraqi Kurds, Turks in ex soviet states,
and Bulgaria. 

All of the above have to do with the fact that Time presents 

only the official american policy on the international issues
I do not know if 
a possible change of the american policy on certain issues 
will cause a change on Time' s perspective of iternational affairs.


>Eniste!



-- 
Michalis Syrimis
University of Illinois
Urbana-Champaign
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: varnavas@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (varnavas constantine)
Subject: Re: Kinites kai akinites giortes
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 06:46:22 GMT

serdar@fawlty8.eng.monash.edu.au (Serdar Boztas) writes:

>Let me guess, using the very limited Greek I heard while growing up
>in Cyprus, hopefully I won't embarass myself...

>The question is regarding an algorithm to calculate the date of Easter
>at any given year...

>What is the difference between Pasxa (Easter) and giortes (this
>sounds like 'yortu' which in Turkish is used to denote Christian
>Orthodox rites, including Easter, and may be actually based on the word
>giortes).


>Serdar

Quite good!  You got (almost) everything right!  Giortes means celebrations
or feasts.  Pasxa is of course Easter.  I am impressed, considering that the
Greek test was written with Latin characters, which sometimes makes it hard
even for Greek speakers to understand.  I am sure that Turkish yortu and
Greek yiortes (singular yiorti) are related.
-- 
Constantinos Varnavas
University of Illinois
Xref: sparky soc.culture.greek:9619 soc.culture.yugoslavia:9085 soc.culture.bulgaria:1507
From: lb@cs.man.ac.uk (Luben Boyanov)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.yugoslavia,soc.culture.bulgaria
Subject: Re: Tsar Samuil: The...ancestor-descendant ?(was Tsar Samuel as anancestor
Date: 10 Oct 92 09:40:35 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.greek
Organization: Dept Computer Science, University of Manchester, U.K.

In article <92283.103523PXP111@psuvm.psu.edu> PXP111@psuvm.psu.edu writes:
>Luben Boyanov  (lb@cs.man.ac.uk)  writes in  Message-ID <6399@m1.
>cs.man.ac.uk>:
>
>>  Hi,
>>  I've  just found  2 sources (AR said that he wanted to 'nail'
>>  them or something like this)   supporting what I said that I
>>  remember reading that Samuil was an anscestor of Sisman:
>                         ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
>No!   I said that historians have a problem to nail the origin of
>Samuil himself.

OK. I didn't argue on that. Furthermore I noticed several times that there
are doubts but nothing more. I agree that this is interesting as something
existing as different opinion. You confirmed that all these are just
interesting speculaitons.

>   And you said something very different from what
>you claim now. Let me remind you:

No I dind't.

>    "..I've read somewhere that it was the Bulgarian noblemen Si-
>     sman who was the grandfather of Samuil  (or sort of  - can't
						^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>     ::::         :::::::::::::::::::::::::
>     remember exactly, but do remember the name - Sisman)... "
	^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>Generally, Luben,  "Grandfather"  is not a  "Grandson"  !

Next time before attempting to prove something read it carefully. I SAID I
REMEMBER THE NAME - I SAID I DON'T REMEMBER THE REST QUITE WELL !!!

>The former is two generations before the latter.

The later shows that you didn't read the sentence above carefully, or you
are trying intentionally to skip parts of my words and to create conflicts.
I've sent you a mail to tell you EXACTLY my intentions but for God sake -
please read carefully.


>                                                Andronikos Romanos


Luben


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Let us not allow splits and splintering to frighten us. It is, indeed, a
pity, but what can we do, since we are Bulgarians and all suffer from one
common disease"
				Gotse Delchev
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: ls1@cec1.wustl.edu (Lambros Skartsis)
Subject: Re: Time Criticized??
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis MO
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 20:25:06 GMT

In article: <15OCT199213455747@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov>
 scgeoff@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (GEOFF ELLIOTT) writes:

>Well, well, well.
>
>So when you all don't like an article in Time you want to boycott it?
>
>Why do I feel that if an article would ever appear criticizing Turkey, you
>would accept it as the gospel truth?   Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm????


You are right, some times we are overreacting. But I truly think that
the article in question was indeed too much. 


>
>Face the facts people:  If they want to be called Macedonia, you can't
>stop them.   How about if they call themselves NEW Macedonia?  Would
>that make you feel better?
>
>Perhaps the small community of Berlin, Ohio should change it's name so
>as not to insult Germans?????????????????/
>
>Or maybe Athens, Ohio should change it's name too??   What do you think??
>
>Anxiously awaiting your flames people.  Fire away!


Oh, boy! NOT AGAIN !!! What more can one possibly say...
After aaaaaaaaaall this discussion about the Macedonian issue, after
aaaaall the information and background one could obtain on it even from
reading the net, there are still people who, having no clue on the
problem argue strongly citing ... Athens, Ohio. 

Back to square one. You see now why I have been begging to stop
these discussions?
At any rate: as politely as I can say it:
all of you guys who want to strongly argue
on something you know nothing about, at least  familiarize yourselves
with the issue. And to the greek netters: do not respond to
such "arguments", which require re-explanation 
of what the whole problem is about starting from scratch.

Hell, guys, there is no reason to re-initiate  and continue for ever
threads that are "recycling" leading nowhere.

With all due respect,
L. Skartsis

P.S. The names "New Macedonia", or "Slavomacedonia", or "Vardarmacedonia"
are all, for me, excellent choices (and are seriously discussed in
"unofficial" political meetings both in Greece and in Slavomecedonia
as alternatives). But not much more can be said here other than wishes...

  



Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: filippou@cs.mcgill.ca (Dimitrios FILIPPOU)
Subject: Some netters (was: Re: MIRacles No. 13)
Summary: Some deafs pretend that they can hear
Organization: SOCS - McGill University, Montreal, Canada
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 17:36:33 GMT

In article <BvsopG.7G2@gabriel.keele.ac.uk> cla04@seq1.keele.ac.uk 
(A.T. Fear) writes:
> From article <Bvrp4v.7pF@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, by pt8684@meibm5.cen.uiuc.edu 
> (Panos Tamamidis):

    [stuff deleted]

>I think the Greek poet Aristophanes accurately described the part of the
>world you are living in - Cloud Cuckoo Land. 

Sometimes, I wonder who lives *epi nephelon* (= on the clouds, in Ancient
Greek, that you claim to understand, Mr. Fear :-))...

Well, Mr. Fear, as well as a number of other netters, simply post for the
sake of posting.  He claims to be always open-minded, never biased, and
certainly well-informed!  But, on the contrary, ...

>I dare say in Greece fascist groups circulate maps claiming parts 
>of Turkey and all of Cyprus as Greece

... he comes to say that the occupation of the northern part of 
Cyprus by the Turkish Army for the past eighteen years is a legitimate 
action of the Turkish State (yes, Mr. Fear, you have said this and 
other obsurdities in your previous postings :-)).  Then, he expects
the Greeks not to be furious and, of course, not to say ...

>> I have something to tell you Mr. Fear. And I will tell it as much politely
>> as I can: Fuck you !!

He even goes on to tell them -- i.e., the Greeks -- that their history
does not have any continuity through time and, hence, should never be used
in today's political debates:

>Alas I'm not telling anyone anything, I'm merely trying to keep ancient 
>history out of modern political debates were it has no relevence.

You are deaf, Mr. Fear!  CAN YOU HEAR ME?  CAN YOU HEAR ME?
.................................................................

But, from now on, also myself, I'll be blind.  
You have just joined "M.utlu" in my KILL file Mr. Fear :-)

Dimitrios
one of *them*
------------------
These are my opinions.  My boss and colleagues do not necessarily 
share them.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.greek:9621 soc.culture.turkish:10561 soc.culture.europe:8872 soc.culture.yugoslavia:9087
From: kutluk@ccl.umist.ac.uk (Kutluk Ozguven)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.turkish,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.yugoslavia
Subject: Re: An article about Macedonia in TIME (october 12, 1992)
Date: 10 Oct 92 16:25:18 GMT
Organization: Manchester Computing Centre

In <1992Oct9.221851.9069@blaze.cs.jhu.edu> arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) writes:

[on the TIME article about the foolish behaviour of Greece on Macedonia]

>And can anyone post the section of the Macedonia constitution disavowing claims
>to Greek Macedonia?  Does it say "we don't claim Greek Macedonia", or does it
>say phrases like "we don't claim territory of other countries" that can be
>weaseled around?

One has to know the fact that Macedonia with its six
different ethnic communities can only survive if the status quo is
preserved. In other words, not only Macedonia would remain militarily
inferior to Greece with its poor economy and unfavorable location, but
also Macedonian history teaches them that change of borders bring them
catastrophy. If Greece acts like a normal European country and opens
its northern ports to its neighbour, they can have the same relation
between Italy and Switzerland. It is so bad that the Greek intellectuals
along with the Serbian bretren still live in the 19th century, and it
is the Bosnians, Macedonians, Croats and Kosovans who are paying the
price. 

Kutluk
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 10:35:23 EDT
From: <PXP111@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.yugoslavia,soc.culture.bulgaria
Subject: Tsar Samuil: The...ancestor-descendant ?(was Tsar Samuel as anancestor

Luben Boyanov  (lb@cs.man.ac.uk)  writes in  Message-ID <6399@m1.
cs.man.ac.uk>:

>  Hi,
>  I've  just found  2 sources (AR said that he wanted to 'nail'
>  them or something like this)   supporting what I said that I
>  remember reading that Samuil was an anscestor of Sisman:
                         ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
No!   I said that historians have a problem to nail the origin of
Samuil himself.   And you said something very different from what
you claim now. Let me remind you:

    "..I've read somewhere that it was the Bulgarian noblemen Si-
     sman who was the grandfather of Samuil  (or sort of  - can't
     ::::         :::::::::::::::::::::::::
     remember exactly, but do remember the name - Sisman)... "

Generally, Luben,  "Grandfather"  is not a  "Grandson"  !
The former is two generations before the latter.
 So you still did
not define the ancestry of Samuil...  :-(

                                                Andronikos Romanos


Xref: sparky soc.culture.greek:9711 soc.culture.bulgaria:1518 soc.culture.yugoslavia:9133
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.bulgaria,soc.culture.yugoslavia
Subject: TIME article on Macedonia
From: <PXP111@psuvm.psu.edu>  Andronikos Romanos
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 15:43:38 EDT
Organization: Penn State University

There seems to be some dispute over the TIME article about Macedo-
nia and the Greek policy.


Dear Greek-friends,

much as I understand your intentions/attempts to protect what you
consider as a sacred name &  perceive as a historic gem you inhe-
rited,  I am afraid that I must disagree  with the proposition of
blockading TIME;  a suggestion that showed up in our network just
after the publication of an issue containing the particular arti-
cle, and the criticism over the Macedonian issue.

I believe that the whole thing is pointless...  For those who are
here at the U.S.  the proposition appears to be extremely simpli-
stic and amusing...  TIME is not even intimidated even to sue the
Republican Party itself  and believe me:  TIME has a considerably
larger circulation among the Republicans than that among  Greeks,
Cypriots and Greek-Americans...

No one ever heard G.Bush   (or even his notorious Vice-President)
making the gaffe and suggest a similar boycott... My "estimation"
is that TIME will not even feel the slip in the numbers. What you
have to do is to prove your points, the inaccuracies of the arti-
cle;  and  even if you manage to satisfy these prerequisites  no-
thing warranties that the editor will be interested,  that he/she
does not have a different agenda, or is not successfully influen-
ced by a different propaganda.

                                        Yours, Andronikos Romanos
From: lyrvas@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (vassilis lyroudis)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: test
Date: 7 Oct 92 14:07:18 GMT
Organization: Cybernet BBS, Boca Raton, Florida

This is only a test, because my last message wasn't posted
From: cla04@seq1.keele.ac.uk (A.T. Fear)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: Mythology questions
Date: 16 Oct 92 08:23:35 GMT
Organization: Keele University, England

From article <1992Oct15.145619.26088@ulrik.uio.no>, by kambizm@fidibus.uio.no (Kambiz Iranpour Mobarekeh):
> 
> I am looking for the names of some mythological personalities
> whom I read about  once. One is the guy who still rolls
> a stone up the hill again and again. The other is one who is 
> thirsty standing in a river in Hades trying to drink water but
> the water disappears each time. What was his name. Third question
> is was it Ogyas (or Ogias) barns which were cleaned by Hercul?
> 
> 
>                               Thank you
>                                 Persian king  Kambiz (Cambyses as the
>                                                       greeks say)

a) Sisyphus
b) Tantalus - who gave the English a verb
c) Augeias - stables rather than just barns I think.


A good reference book for Greek mythology is Robert Graves' book the Greek Myths
which has copious references to the original sources. Don't believe his
personal commentaries however as they are idiosyncratic to put it
mildly. Another book that might interest you is H.J.Rose's A Handbook of
Greek Mythology
From: pnevmati@milhouse.cs.wisc.edu (Dionisios N. Pnevmatikatos)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Kinites kai akinites giortes
Date: 14 Oct 92 23:36:00 GMT
Organization: U of Wisconsin Madison - Computer Sciences

Prin ena mina peripou o Constantinos Caroutas esteile enan algorithmo pou
briskei tin imerominia tou pasxa. Mipws kanenas exei mia lista me tis
imerominies gia tis kyriwteres kinites kai akinites giortes? An den kanw
lathos oles oi kinites exoun statheri apostasi apo to Pasxa?

Dionisis
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: msg7038@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Michalis  Syrimis)
Subject: Re: Kinites kai akinites giortes
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 14:49:04 GMT

varnavas@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (varnavas constantine) writes:

>serdar@fawlty8.eng.monash.edu.au (Serdar Boztas) writes:

>>Let me guess, using the very limited Greek I heard while growing up
>>in Cyprus, hopefully I won't embarass myself...

>>The question is regarding an algorithm to calculate the date of Easter
>>at any given year...

>>What is the difference between Pasxa (Easter) and giortes (this
>>sounds like 'yortu' which in Turkish is used to denote Christian
>>Orthodox rites, including Easter, and may be actually based on the word
>>giortes).


>>Serdar

>Quite good!  You got (almost) everything right!  Giortes means celebrations
>or feasts.  Pasxa is of course Easter.  I am impressed, considering that the
>Greek test was written with Latin characters, which sometimes makes it hard
>even for Greek speakers to understand.  I am sure that Turkish yortu and
>Greek yiortes (singular yiorti) are related.
>-- 
 Now I realize Constantinos beat me in answering first!!!!!
>Constantinos Varnavas
>University of Illinois
-- 
Michalis Syrimis
University of Illinois
Urbana-Champaign

Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.turkish
From: cza@troy.uucp (C. Akgun)
Subject: Re: An article about Macedonia in TIME (october 12, 1992)
Keywords: time,macedonia,greece,bullying
Organization: BCR, NJ-USA
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 03:49:40 GMT

In article <BvxC4r.L8G@news.cso.uiuc.edu> ptg2351@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Panos Tamamidis ) writes:
>
> Perhaps, if you start thinking how well equiped the "Greek rebels" were 
> in 1821, comparing with the powerfull Ottoman empire, your smile may
> disapear.
>
> Have I spoilled your fun, reptile?

Not at all, the raving lunatic.  You make my day when you start 
comparing the Greek military successes against Turks,  On the contary 
of your thinking, this adds much more fun to my day without any saying.  

I know that you will soon resort the profanity again, like when you 
have felt the humiliation recently.  As a matter of fact 
a couple of posting ago, I saw a posting mentioning the 
foam at your mouth.   Did you wash your mouth with soap since 
you have impressed many people with your fine civility concerning
your debating techniques?  I doubt it.  This must be the manifestation
of rabies that has finally cought up with you.

>
> Well, if I haven't, let me proceed.  How about the violation of the rights
> of the muslims of this state?  Altough they constitute 40% (or more) of the
> population, they are not allowed to have any kind of veto e.t.c.
> Does this ring you a bell, hypocrite?  You were not satisfied with the
> control that your 18% minority had in Cyprus.  But now that you have a
> chance to cause some trouble to Greece, you throw your poisson, as the
> reptiles usually do.
>
>>C. Akgun
>
> Panos Tamamidis

Me, causing trouble to Greece?  You are already in the delirious stage.
Funny you've mentioned the poisson.  Soon the township in your area 
will send the pest control with the poisonous meat-balls for you.  
That is how they do it you know.  


C. Akgun
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: c23st@kocrsv01.DElcoelect.COM (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos)
Subject: Re: greeks can't swim
Organization: The Ohio State University Department of Computer and Information Science
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 13:09:15 GMT

C`me on folks, I was *born* in Nafplio (sort of, I was born in Argos),
and I still think Zakynthos has better beaches. Nafplio has some pretty
good ones too, sandy and all (Tolo comes to mind). 

Nafplio's popular beaches close to the tourist district are more of the
rocky variety. I still remember stepping on one of these $#%^$# things 
(what the hell do they call it) (axinos? ahinos?)... argh. Nafplio has
been developed very well, so has Zakynthos. 

Tolo does have sandy beaches, but still nowhere as good as the Aliki
(saltmine?) in Zakynthos. My family owns property in Zakynthos and h
they report 250,000 dollar villas are being built there with alarming
frequency. Lot prices are well into the tens of thousands of dollars.

Spiros
From: bse@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Besime Erin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: Turkish Logic
Date: 9 Oct 92 15:34:49 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center

In article <Oct06.194326.38784@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> cc433336@LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Constantinos A. Caroutas) writes:
>In article <1ar9poINN924@agate.berkeley.edu>, sadi@physics1 (Sadi Turgut)
>writes:
>>
>> How about Enosis?  Isn't it based on Megali Idea? Although, today people
>>do not talk much about it, it didn't disappear yet. During Papandreu's
>
>It's based on the desire of the majority of the Cypriots to unite Cyprus
>with Greece. Don't forget that in 1939 Hatay that had a 60 percent Turkish
>population united itself with Turkey. The idea of enosis is contemporary
>to that event. Why couldn't Cyprus which had 80 percent Greek population
                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>unite itself with Greece?
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Simply because WE WON'T LET YOU.

We: referring to Turkish Cypriots and Turkey.


A Turkish Cypriot

>
>>visit, lots of 'Enosis' slogans were heard. Also, what does 'pan-Hellenic'
>>mean? And why 'Hellen-ism' frequently means 'Greeks'?
>
>Hellas is Greece, Hellenism is the Greek nation, and panhellenic is of all
>Greeks.
>--
>Constantinos A. Caroutas
>
>"It's easy to make mistakes when others will be held responsible."
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: msg7038@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Michalis  Syrimis)
Subject: Re: Akritas Plan (Re: Greek Logic)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 01:00:19 GMT
Keywords: Palikaria, Akritas Plan, Enosis 

baysan@en.ecn.purdue.edu (Okan Baysan) writes:

>In article <Bw6E2M.9r5@news.cso.uiuc.edu> varnavas@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (varnavas constantine), responding to Sadi Turgut, writes:
>>
>>What is this "Akritas plan"?  You mentioned it in previous posts.  I have
>>never heard of it.  Can you post any details?

>Here it is. Read it and pound it in. 

>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


>                              AKRITAS PLAN




(the posting was deleted)
>	TOP SECRET                                          HEADQUARTERS



>					The Chief
>					 AKRITAS

>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Cheers,
>Okan Baysan.
Can you share with us your source sir ?





-- 
Michalis Syrimis
University of Illinois
Urbana-Champaign

Xref: sparky soc.culture.greek:9642 soc.culture.turkish:10579