HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: trucks?
Date: 15 Sep 92 15:23:15 GMT
Reply-To: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Organization: Loughborough University, UK.

In article <Sep11.174831.17338@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> meridiem@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Jill Engel) writes:
>I find all this discussion on towing vehicles interesting, since I will
>most likely be getting one myself someday.  However, I have noticed that
>everyone seems to have large, heavy duty trucks.  Yet, I know someone
>where I lease that tows a two horse trailer and one horse with a Jeep
>Cherokee.  I do not know if it has a special engine or anything (I am
>sure it is a V6) but I wondered that no one mentioned a smaller vehicle.
>
>Second, don't they do it differently in Europe, i.e. use sedan cars like
>Volvos and Mercedes?  I seem to remember a brief discussion on this,
>about their lighter trailers and such.  I am curious.  Any of our friends
>across the pond have an opinion?  
>
>							     Jill
>
I've been following this thread in total awe!:-)What *are* you people
towing?:-)Yes,it would seem our trailers are considerably lighter than
yours.On the other hand,they are probably more fully equipped(yours,I
mean) Ours are,typically,ramp at the back,angled ramp at the front,
room for two horses,and nowt else!
You want tack,it goes in the towing vehicle.We,I think,probably dont
do as long hauls though.Yes,Jill,we do tow with the family car,but
Mercs and Volvos are pretty well out of sight of most folk.The Volvo
Estate is considered a *very* good towing vehcle.A lot of folk use a
car of between 1600cc and 2000cc.My own vehicle is a 21yr old Short
Wheelbase Diesel Land Rover.2286cc,and I towed quite a bit last year.
Provided you arent in a hurry(and with horses on board you shouldnt
be)the old girl is perfectly adequate.I think the answer is that
different scenes produce different answers to the problem.Bear in 
mind too that petrol costs around $5 a gallon over here,and you
begin to see why we dont run big engines:-)
We also stay on back roads.English back roads are fairly quiet,but
are narrow and twisty,so a big trailer would be a bind.Our trailers
weigh in at about 3/4 of a ton empty,I would say.The other way out
of the problem here is to buy a lorry,which is English for truck:-)
The much-loved Bedford TK,petrol or diesel,is,I think,a three tonner,
and makes a good horsebox.BUT...you are running an extra vehicle.
So......you pays your money,and takes your choice.
Cheers
Mike Rooth

>
>*  Jill Engel (Anne Meridiem)  * "If the world were a logical place, *
>* meridiem@lamar.colostate.edu *  men would ride side-saddle."       *
>*                              *                    --Rita Mae Brown * 
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: Ruth Vale <rmvale@watnow.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: Ph.D. done (!) - now I've got time for riding!
Originator: rmvale@watnow.uwaterloo.ca
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 17:54:58 GMT


Sorry to take up bandwidth for those who don't know me, but this
is the fastest way I could think of to inform the many people
out there who have kept in touch by e-mail.

On Sept 9, 1992, my Ph.D. defense was completed successfully.  It
was accepted as is, with typographic errors to be fixed.  I've
been working on this program since 1984 and boy am I glad to
see the end of it!  Write if you want the details.

Thanks for your support.  The encouragement from this group with
respect to both riding AND my academic work has really made the difference.

Many thanks,

(Dr.) Ruth 
 with extra thanks from Springtwist who is so glad to see me
 back after 10days absence that she was giving love bites (youch!)
:-) :-)  :-)   (many smileys!)
-- 
=============================================================================
  I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am
    not sure you realize that what you understand is not what I meant.
=========================== rmvale@watnow.uwaterloo.ca ======================
From: mdresser@pbs.org (Melanie Dresser)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: saddle restuffing
Date: 12 Sep 92 18:10:45 EDT
Organization: PBS:Public Broadcasting Service, Alexandria, VA

In article <14548@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu>, pallas@cephalo.neusc.bcm.tmc.edu (Sarah Pallas) writes:
> Considering the problems with my sore-backed horse, Margaret from
> Alberta has suggested restuffing the owner's saddle, which seems like
> a cheap alternative to buying a new saddle to fit the horse.  But
> neither of us has experience with restuffing.  Does anyone know how
> one can determine whether a restuffing job would help with a sore
> back?  Does the saddler generally make any guarantees on a restuffing
> job?  How do you know when a saddle needs restuffing?
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> Sarah Pallas

I will hope this message gets out there

I had my saddle restuffed this past June.  It was leaving dry 
spots and seems to be uneven on the underside.
When I got to the place to have it restuffed (The Journeyman
in Middleburg, VA) they said it was really broken down inside,
had gotton lumpy, and needed a full restuff.
After the restuff, I didn't get dry spots anymore and I seemed
to sit more even.  I asked when I would know it was time to have
it restuffed again, and they said when it starts leaving dry spots.
But the restuff should be good for a couple years.  It cost
$85 for a restuff and $150 for a full stuff.  I felt it was well
worth it to make my horse comfortable.

When I took my saddle in I also took a thin saddle pad I had
used once, so they could see the pattern of how the saddle 
fit my horse.

Melanie  (on my way to the Outer Banks for vacation!!)
   and Quest
-- 
**************************************************************
          Melanie L. Dresser	  mdresser@pbs.org    
**************************************************************
"In this world, you must be oh so smart, or oh so pleasant.
Well, for years I was smart; I recommend pleasant.  You may
quote me."  Elwood P. Dowd
**************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: njd@FTP.COM (Nancy J. DeMarco)
Subject: looking for tom
Reply-To: njd@FTP.COM
Organization: FTP Software, Inc., Wakefield, MA
Distribution: rec
Date: 14 Sep 92 09:04:31


I'm trying to locate a horse who was given away 3 1/2 to 4 years ago
due to the owner's health problems.  He's around 19 now, 15.2 or 3,
black thoroughbred type gelding with a star.  He has a small bump half
way down the superficial flexor tendon of the left fore.  

He has *tons* of personality - makes lots of silly faces.  He also
used to buck and rear and leap quite a bit.  He wasn't nasty - he was
just a bit of a fool who enjoyed doing athletic things.  He's also an
incredibly beautiful mover.

He was solid first level, and basically understood many upper level
movements.  He also evented to the preliminary level (before injuring
that tendon in the paddock).

His name was Tom Foolery.  We'd greatly appreciate any assistance in
locating him, just to know he's OK and to offer a retirement home when
he's ready.

He was last seen in western Massachusetts.

Thank you!!

Nancy
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: broy@vaxa.weeg.uiowa.edu (Barbara Roy)
Subject: Used cart wanted
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 14:34:00 GMT

Well, I've purchased my first Shetland show stock and will be doing some
driving next year with one. I also have an Arab gelding (14hh) in training
even as I type. But no cart for either one! I have found a good source for
harness, but could use some help tracking down a breaking cart and a show
cart for each. Reasonable prices a must!

Barbara Roy, University of Iowa, Weeg Computing Center, Iowa City, IA.  52242
Meadowacres Arabians & Shetlands
Internet:   broy@vaxa.weeg.uiowa.edu or Barbara-Roy@uiowa.edu
Bitnet:     broyva@uiamvs.bitnet  
Disclaimer: My opinions are solely my own and may change daily.
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: doconnor@sedona.intel.com (Dennis O'Connor)
Subject: Re: Seatbelts in Buggies?
Organization: Intel i960(tm) Architecture
	<HANNAH.92Sep9103137@pomponio.ai.sri.com>
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 18:18:59 GMT


hannah@pomponio.ai.sri.com (Marsha Jo Hannah) writes:
] In article <...> broy@vaxa.weeg.uiowa.edu (Barbara Roy) writes:
]
]    What was the reason that seat belts in buggies were deemed dangerous? Is it
]    because people are expected to abandon the horse and buggy when an accident
]    is imminent?
]
] There are a number of problems.  Most carriages don't include roll
] cages, and most runaway/wrecks include the carriage either flipping or
] disintegrating.  [...]

To support this idea, let me add that our Kubota tractor has
instructions saying :

	If the ROPS ( Roll-Over Protection System) is present,
	ALWAYS were the seat belt.

	If the ROPS isn't present, NEVER wear the seat belt.

[The ROPS is a 6' high steel structure loop right behind the driver.
 Ours also carries a fiberglass sunshade and driver misting system.]

--
Dennis O'Connor			doconnor@sedona.intel.com
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: MAUSEN@vm.ucs.UAlberta.CA
Subject: Re: Trucks
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 18:32:06 GMT

------------------------- Original Article -------------------------
>From: teresa@astro.as.arizona.edu (Teresa Bippert-Plymate)
>Subject: Trucks
>Date: 4 Sep 92 22:32:57 GMT
>Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson, AZ
>
>Re: Trucks
>
>  What is the reason the automatic with overdrive is not
>  recommended?  I have an '83 Ford F-150 supercab that
>  has that transmission, and it has done well so far.  This
>  truck has a small engine (the 302), but a full trailering
>  package and low rear gearing.  It has 115K miles on it
>  and still runs great.  It just simply can't pull FAST up
>  hills, but it never overheats.  (But good gas mileage).
>  Thanks for the info.....
>
>                  Teresa
>                  Leo (The QH)
>                  Razzie (The Arab)

  Teresa,

        When I started looking for a truck three years ago, I
  the same advice (NO automatic overdrive) from my sister's
  neighbour (a rural mechanic).  I assumed it was because in
  overdrive the gear ratios are equal (well..they were in my
  MG, if they aren't equal they're darn close to 1:1). This
  means the engine is providing direct power to the rear end
  with no 'mediation' from the transmission.  This can leave
  your engine in a rather precarious position..for the same
  reason you never stomp on the gas when you're in overdrive,
  only very gradual speed increases.  I'm guessing that in the
  typical 'hit a bump and everything jumps' ride, the lurch is
  picked up by the suspension (this is where heavy duty or
  camper special is best), but some of that short lived but
  pronounced speed increase/decrease when the load hits the
  hitch again is transmitted straight to the engine. Like
  flooring the gas for a moment, only worse.  Just very
  unwanted wear and tear.   I have a heavy duty F250 with a
  351 cid engine and 5 speed trans; even the manual says
  NEVER haul in overdrive.
      That's my 2 worth of guess on the matter..worth what
  you paid for it :-).  If anyone else has a theory or, even
  a FACT, please contribute..I'd like to know if the guesswork
  is anywhere near accurate.

                                        Margaret (and Kaiser)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: rivk@ellis.uchicago.edu (nora gayle rivkis)
Subject: Re: Favorite Breed
Reply-To: rivk@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 20:18:34 GMT

Okay, so I'm weird. I have a bunch of breeds I love, and I am
going to go crazy when I actually go shopping for a horse of my
own (I haven't got the space to keep one, yet), because next to
all of them are obscure Caucasus or Asian breeds that nobody's
ever heard of in the United States. I love the Caspian pony, I
love some of the Mongolian breeds, and if I had to pick a single
all-around favorite it would have to be the Anglo-Kabardin, which
I've had a chance to ride a few times and which have convinced me
they're the best mountain trail horses I've ever seen. Where in
the hell I am going to get an Anglo-Kabardin I do not know... I
suspect that when I go horse-hunting it will be time to take a
vacation in a few of the ex-Soviet republics; it's the only thing
I can think of...:-)

	-Nora
-- 
"Light one candle for those who are suffering pain we learned so long ago..."

Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: butlet@aix.rpi.edu (Timothy James Butler)
Subject: Re: trucks?
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 20:37:49 GMT

    I agree that an enormous truck is not necessary to tow horses, especially
one horse in  a lighter trailer.
    One person said that (in his opinion) a light truck, i.e. pickup was even
too small. (I believe he used a suburban). Two points:
   A comparatively short wheelbase is not necessary, but it of course
will add some stability. But on the other hand, a semi-trailer is pulled
by a much shorter vehicle. Moving the point of connection to the rear
bumper does allow yawing (rotation about a vertical axis) of the 
truck to transfer some lateral motion to the head of the trailer. But
making the truck 25 feet long to minimize this is overkill.
   I wouldn't pull a trailer (especially an empty one) with out
a load distributing anti sway hitch. The bars on either side of the tongue
provide the weight distribution making the steer axle of the truck 
heavier for a heavier trailer. Without these, the heavier the trailer,
the lighter the front end of the truck gets, obviously this is not good.
Further, If you buy a good hitch, These load distribution links can
provide anti sway AND centering forces as well.
   If you look at the aft end of the bars, where the chains pull them up
toward the front frame of the trailer, you will see one of two (or more)`
types. 
   There are some where the chain is u-bolted to the end of the bar. This
type essentially only provides weight distribution.
   There are others where the end of the bar, (which now has a round lump
on the bottom of the end) is lifted in a concave cradle on yet another
link attached to the chain.  Since the lifting force on the bar will 
make it want to drop to the lowest point in the concave depression, it
provides resistance to swaying motions AWAY from center. This can be
contrasted to other antisway devices which use only friction, and thus
resist swaying motion in either direction.
   I would attempt ascii art, but I am stuck using vi right now, and
I am not very proficient. (Now how do I enter insert mode after the current
cursor position? :-) 'i' does it BEFORE)

   Always, you must be very aware when pulling a trailer, but some
people posting here sound like they are a little too nervous. It's 
only basic vehicle dynamics. :-)

   If your trailer starts to sway ALOT, remember trying to crack a whip.
So as the trailer sways toward the shoulder, do NOT grossly overcorrect
toward the right (as the trailer will tend to aim you left). This will
just whip it back the other (perhaps) even faster.
   I would go as far as to suggest that you take your trailer out
empty or weighted (wityh something inanimate) and try some maneuvers.
You never know when some yutz will pull out in front of you and
you may need it. There is nothing like experience.

   Now a semi with 40-50 thousand pounds of hanging beef, that gets 
interesting. Or a smoothbore tanker coming to a sudden stop slightly 
uphill.

   (not to sound like some self proclaimed driving machine, I am not.
Just some experience, and dynamics is my area of study)

tim butler    butlet@rpi.edu
From: mdresser@pbs.org (Melanie Dresser)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: quarter sheet responses needed!!
Date: 5 Sep 92 01:06:08 EDT
Organization: PBS:Public Broadcasting Service, Alexandria, VA

In article <1992Sep4.173213.17042@pbs.org>, mdresser@pbs.org (Melanie Dresser) writes:
> It seems our site isn't getting everything, so I
> haven't seen any followups to my post on Quarter
> Sheets.  I'd appreciate direct replies if possible.
> Did anyone save the responses, could you mail me
> a summary?  Please?
> 
> I am also not able to mail to bitnet addresses, yet,
> so haven't been able to subscribe to the Equine Digest.
> Soon I'm told.
> 
> Oh, well, I wonder what else I've missed.
> :-(
> 
> Melanie
>     and Quest "aren't carrots a great invention?"


Thanks to Margaret (and Kaiser) for sending me the
responses on Quarter Sheets.

Melanie 
   and Quest
-- 
**************************************************************
          Melanie L. Dresser	  mdresser@pbs.org    
**************************************************************
"In this world, you must be oh so smart, or oh so pleasant.
Well, for years I was smart; I recommend pleasant.  You may
quote me."  Elwood P. Dowd
**************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: deblev@nimoy.ipac.caltech.edu (Debbie Levine)
Subject: Re: Stiff back problems  (was help with stubborn horse)
Organization: California Institute of Technology
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 21:42:20 GMT

In article <14703@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu> pallas@cephalo.neusc.bcm.tmc.edu (Sarah Pallas) writes:
>
>...I'm interested in trying side
>reins but want others' opinions on how to use them correctly and
>whether they are likely to help this horse, or hurt him.  He usually
>backs off the bit when he gets hollow and I wonder if he would accept
>side rein contact.  He likes a really steady contact on his mouth.  If
>I squeeze and release to try to get him to bring his head down, he
>just gets worse... 

Too bad lungeing didn't do the trick!  

I rode a horse, just a couple of times, with whom the key was a very
steady rein contact and extremely careful attention to keeping him 
straight.  I don't know what was in his background that made him like
this, but the more I tried to bend and release to get him to soften
the worse he got.  It is possible that Monty is like that horse was.

Lungeing in side reins correctly can't really do any harm, though 
it could also not do any good.  The idea is to adjust the side
reins long enough so that the horse's natural head carriage is
not restricted by them, and you have to drive them forward into
taking a contact just as you do when ridden.  You don't crank up
the frame with the side reins.  I usually use the inside side rein
1 or 2 holes shorter than the outside one, and I like the ones that
have the big rubber donuts best.  I also prefer to lunge off a
lunging cavesson or halter rather than the bridle, but if I must
use the bridle, I run the lunge line from the outside bit ring
across the poll and through the inside bit ring.  When using side
reins in this configuration, you have to be quite careful not
to get tangled!  I also prefer to attach the side reins fairly low
on the girth, not to the saddle dees.

Is anything correlated with his good and bad days?  Turnout or lack
thereof, jumping work the previous day, trail ride the previous day,
ridden by someone else the previous day, stood in his stall
all day?  Any signs of foot trouble, tooth (or other mouth)
trouble?  Do you feel any difference in your riding on his good
and bad days?  If he starts off bad, are you more tense than when
he starts off good?  Some horses can be very sensitive to tension
in the rider.  In particular, I have to watch for tension creeping
into my shoulders and hips when I begin to get frustrated.

Good luck!

     Debbie




Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: howland@noc.arc.nasa.gov (Curtis Howland)
Subject: Re: quarter sheets
Organization: NASA Science Internet Project Office
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 01:54:28 GMT

In article <1992Sep4.145619.7054@morrow.stanford.edu>, AS.GGG@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gwyn Gordon) writes:
|> In article <1992Aug31.122303.16950@pbs.org>,
|> mdresser@pbs.org (Melanie Dresser) writes:
|> >
|> >Does anyone out there use a Quarter Sheet for winter/cold weather riding?
|> >
|> >What is your Quarter sheet made of?  I notice they usually come in wool or
|> >acrylic, which one might be better and why?  And if wool, any idea what kind?
|> >How about flannel, or should I avoid cotton?  I really don't ride in the rain,
|> 
|> At the racing stable (in England) they used quarter sheets at all
|> times, except for racing. In the winter we used wool ones, and in


An old friend in Mass told me that horses as a group do not need
blankets and such, but that once they started wearing one, their 
metabolism adjusted so that they needed to be covered ever after.

True or false? (and all variations between, of course....)

Curt
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: rewald@scivax.stsci.edu
Subject: Re:  Equitours
Organization: Space Telescope Science Institute
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 04:49:28 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.214442.11394@NOC.Vitalink.COM>, roy_wells@qm.vitalink.COM (Roy H. Wells) writes:
> Has anyone ever been on one of the Equitours vacations?
> 
> I am considering taking their "Cavalier Ride" through Virginia, and 
> would appreciate hearing about anyone's personal experience with 
> these folks...
> 
> ----
> "If you can't reach (age) 70 by a comfortable road, don't go."  --Mark Twain

Sorry, I can't help you on this one, but I thought I would take the opportunity
to pass along a letter and comment from Trail Blazer magazine.

Pam Brown from San Deigo wrote with some very specific complaints about a
"Great Expeditions" ride that she and her husband had gone on.  The magazine
noted that they had gotten a number similar letters from other riders, too.

It seems like a really good idea to ask around about equestrian tours!  Maybe
you can get some info on Equitours from local clubs or saddlery shops, too.

Rosalie 
(who has no connection with the magazine, except she is a happy subscriber!)
From: karlm@sequent.com (Karl Maerz)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Trucks & Transmissions for Towing Horses
Date: 8 Sep 92 21:08:11 GMT
Article-I.D.: sequent.1992Sep8.210811.23145
Reply-To: karlm@sequent.com
Distribution: usa
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc.

I'm the guy who said to stay away from 4spd/overdrive automatic 
transmissions.  A few of you have raised questions about the veracity 
of that advice.  [Just remember, it's worth what you pay for it on the 
net... :)]

OK.  I admit it.  I'm not a mechanic.  I only know what I've been told 
and have experienced second-hand through a couple of not-real-close 
friends.  These two each ended up spending mucho hundreds of dollars 
replacing their T-400 (is that right?) transmissions in their early 80s 
GM trucks.  This is GM's overdrive automatic transmission.  The units
were apparently not up to the task and essentially fried themselves -- I
don't know if either was equipped with a transmission cooler or not
(you *definitely* want a cooler on your automatic trans.).  One
replaced his with a 3 spd automatic and the other put a rebuilt
T-400 back into the truck.  Last I heard that transmission also
failed him, but I don't know and have since lost touch with him.  The
guy who went with the 3 spd is still going strong.

This sage advice was also repeatedly pounded into me by my step
father, who was the owner of both Ford and Chrysler/Plymouth/Dodge
car dealerships.  On more than one occasion I have disregarded his
advice when it comes to vehicles and have invariably come to regret 
it.  I've had several other people who I regard as somewhat
knowledgeable of the subject recommend avoiding these transmissions
for heavy towing.  Their reasoning was that they tend to self-destruct
under the burden.

So, there you have it.  Circumstantial evidence and hearsay.  (Yep,
this must be usenet! :)  It sounds like quite a few of you have had good 
luck with 4spd automatics.  (I may be wrong, but it seems like all of you 
guys were driving Fords.  Anyone out there with a T-400 that has survived 
serious towing?)

Karl Maerz
karlm@sequent.com