From: jtod_ltd@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (John "Jeep" Todd)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.tech
Subject: Re: RFI: Jeep CJ Info Needed
Date: 24 Jan 93 02:45:30 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester - Rochester, New York

In <1jp2agINNfgd@transfer.stratus.com> rcc@sw.stratus.com (Rob Carolan) writes:

>A friend of mine is going to be selling his 90 Honda Accord soon.  He wants to 
>replace it with a Jeep CJ.  Can anyone send me some info about what he should 
>look for when buying a used Jeep CJ.  I think he wants a early-to-mid 80's 
>version.  I don't think the engine size is an issue.  He's looking for tips
>on what to check before buying one.  Can you tell if it's been beat on?
>Things like that.  Any help would be appreciated.  Please respond via email.

>Thanks,
>-Rob

Well, I think I can give you a hand.  I've had 6 CJs in my 6 years of
driving (out of 17 cars total at the tender age of 22)  My experience also
may make me the last person you'd want to ask questions about Jeeps about,
since a)I think any Jeep can be made into the best car you've ever owned,
and b)I tend to go on for several pages about any sub-topic relating to
Jeeps.  BUT: I'll give the quick run-down.

1) Types of Jeeps to own.  The three basics are CJ-5, CJ-7, and CJ-8.  The
CJ-5 is kind of short, but is the best of the three for off-roading since
it's short wheelbase makes it very manuverable.  CJ-7 is only a few inches
longer than the CJ-5, and is slightly more plentiful.  The way to tell the
difference between a 5 and a 7 by quick sight is that the 7 has square doors
and door-body openings; the 5 has doors that look like someone took a bite
out of the lower right hand corner.  The CJ-8 is a long version of the CJ-7
(I've had two 8's, and love them.)  The 8 I think is the best buy since it
acts as a pickup more than the 5 or 7 and has a reduced probability of
rollover since the wheelbase is around 103 inches.  CJ-8's usually have a
half-top which ends behind the passenger seats and is very easy to take off
and store; I have a full top which goes all the way to the end of the body
and is great because it's like having a van.

2) Engines.  Four cylinder, straight-6, and V-8.  Don't get a four.  Period. 
The 6 is a really great engine, and produces gobs of torque in the low end
while being fairly good on gas.  If you can, avoid the post-1983
computer-controlled versions.  If you don't want it, there are plenty of
really simple carb kits or even fuel injection (!!) systems to replace the
finicky computer-controlled carbs with.  The V-8 is fairly rare, and if you
find a good quailty Jeep with an 8 in it, keep it.  It's a good engine
(almost always the AMC 304, but I've seen other factory stock engines in
almost any combination, including a Ford (!), and other varities of AMC like
the 360)  and will serve for a long time if cared for properly.  Perhaps a
bit too much power for the CJ-5/7 and an inexperienced Jeep driver, but not
fundamentally unsafe. 

3) Trans.  Try to stick with manual transmissions.  I've seen a lot of
problems with Jeep's mating of autos to their engines.  Not to say that they
are completely snafu, but I'd never buy one.  The 5-speed is very nice if
you do highway driving ONLY, but if there is any thought of off-road, the
5-speed will crumble into a pile of cowering chunks.  Stick with the
4-speeds.  Jeep actually put a T-18 into their products for a while, and
this transmission is impossible to break.  (It's a Ford design, I believe,
and has a 1st Granny, which means that it's unsynchronized and is a compound
gear which will pull ANYTHING if the rest of the drivetrain will take it) 
The three speeds are a pain, but are very sturdy for day-to-day use.  Just
there is basically a "first-second-go" gear pattern.  No real problem, just
preference.

4) Body.  Rust.  That's all I have to say.  Actually, I think I'll say a
little more on this. I've never seen a Jeep without rust (not surprising
since I'm from above the Mason-Dixon and East of the Mississippi, where salt
falls naturally from the sky mixed with water during the winter months :)
They rust most often along the floorboards, right above the front wheels on
the quarter panels, along the windshield frame, along the spot-welds above
the rear wheels, and below the tailgate.  On CJ-5's that have it, make sure
to look in the compartment underneath the passenger's seat, since water
often collects there.   Look under rugs. Take a magnet with you and check to
see how much bondo is under the paint.  I've seen Jeeps that look great from
10 ft, but upon closer examination, have been completely covered with sheet
plastic with almost NO metal underneath.  Also: There is a seam between the
front fenders and the rest of the body that follows the same line that the
hood does all the way to the ground. In other words, put your finger on the
hood hinge.  Run your finger down the crack between the hood and the body. 
When you get to the edge of the hood above the fender, there is the top of
the vertical seam between the body and the fender.  I've seen many, many
Jeeps that have had this seam bondo'ed over which means RUST big time. 

5)Interior/top.  Soft top is fine for a warm climate, but I'd have to
recommend the hard top for anthing colder than freezing on a regular basis. 
The hard top is a bigger pain in the neck to remove, but with a hard top and
locking steel doors, you also have an added extra measure of security where
the soft top doors don't lock. On steel doors: there are two types - the
"lever" type and the flush handle type.  The lever type have an external
handle which is turned down/up to open the door from the outside. These
suck.  The flush handle type (which pull out to open) are much better and
don't require a gorilla to close.  Note: all doors are interchangable, even
with Wranglers, so if you're mechanically inclined and feel like fooling
around with a junkyard and making striker plates, you can put any doors you
want on a CJ-7/CJ-8.  (Note2: CJ-5 doors are NOT compatable with CJ-7 doors
and vice versa)  Soft tops should have clear windows; once the windows are
fogged, it's hard to get them to go clear again without buying some real
specialty polish from someplace like Eastwood.  Plus, once the top starts to
rip, that means that the vinyl has started to break down and other rips will
start fairly quickly.

6)Other.  Try to get high-back seats (the ones that DON'T stop right under
your shoulder bladed) and three-point belts.  If you don't get a three-point
belt system, put one in.  They only came stock in 82 and up (I think) but
it's worth the $100 or so for your life, dontchathink?  Rear seats are very
nice, but not as common as you'd think.  

Prices:

	These prices reflect the prices around where I live, and they are
also "Best Find" prices that are what I'd PAY, and not what people are
asking.

	1981 Jeep CJ-8 Scrambler, Half-hard top, automatic 6-cyl, very light
		rust: $3200
	1984 CJ-7 Renegade, big tires, suspension lift, 6-cyl 5 speed, soft
		top and no NOTICEABLE rust: $3900
	1978 CJ-5 V-8, Softtop, moderate to heavy rust, decent tires,
		3-speed, cruddy interior: <$1200
	1979 CJ-7 4-cyl, 4 speed, stock tires, light rust, nice interior,
		runs well, little old lady car :  $1700-2100

Aaaaannndddd....

	1981 Jeep CJ-8 Scrambler, Chevy 305 conversion, Muncie 465 4-speed
trans, New Process 205 Transfer Case, Full rollcage, 32" Super Swampers,
4.11 gears, 3-core extra cap. radiator, 3-point belts, high seats, FULL
AutoMeter gauges, armored radio/CB/Alarm center console, Rancho 7000
tuned suspension, custom driveshafts, custom trans/TC plate, Centerforce
clutch, electric fan, KC off road lights, rear reclining bucket seat, FULL
hardtop, bikini top, 52" 3.5 ton jack, Hooker aluminum-plated headers,
sidepipes, and even SHEEPSKIN SEAT COVERS!  Wow!  Delivered to within 300
miles of Philadelphia or Rochester NY for only $6500!  One spot of rust. 
Easily cut out and fixed (I can't deny it... all Jeeps have rust somewhere,
but this one is remarkably free)  Dark Green with brown top and all-black
accessories.  So much fun in the summer you won't think it's legal.  All
this and it gets 20mpg at 230 hp!  The college loan reaper has come to the
door, and the baby has to go.  All inquires to 716/274-2738 or this email
address.

(Whew! Long post.)
-- 
John Todd         | University of Rochester, Rochester NY USA Earth Milky Way
CPU 276686        | "What took you so long?" - Connor MacLeod "Highlander"
Rochester NY 14627| Jeeps Fixed, Technology Hacked, Lawns Mowed, Maidens Saved
jtod@alora.cc.rochester.edu (NeXT mail)        jtod_ltd@uhura.cc.rochester.edu