From: cbbrowne@csi.uottawa.ca (Christopher Browne)
Subject: Re: Better to be slaughtered than never to have lived? Re: Meat eaters (LONG)
Keywords: Meat Vegans vegetarian food
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, University of Ottawa
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 92 17:25:15 GMT

In article <1992Dec21.160811.18439@spdc.ti.com> achenbac@epcot.spdc.ti.com (Jeff Achenbach) writes:
>In article <1992Dec19.172603.20369@cdf.toronto.edu> g9rwaigh@cdf.toronto.edu (Rosemary Waigh) writes:
>>In article <schuck.724481107@sfu.ca> Bruce_Schuck@sfu.ca writes:
>>
>>"poultry, pigs or calves never see the light of day until they are taken to 
>>the slaughterhouse... For three months at a stretch, pregnant sows are confined
>>to stalls scarcely larger than their bodies.  To reduce stress and activity, 
>>totally confined animals are kept in darkness except at feeding time...
>>"The new ways are solidly established.  About 95 per cent of egg laying hens,
>>virtually all ... turkeys and half or more of beef cattle, dairy cows and pigs
>>are maintained in some type of factory system."  (James B. Mason, "Industrial
>>Pigs, Mechanical Chickens:  How Corporate Animal Factories Breed Poisoned Meat
>>and New Pollution", _Vegetarian_Times_, March 1980, cited in Victoria Moran,
>>_Compassion:_The_Ultimate_Ethic_).
>
>Granted it's been a few years, but I've lived near/worked on farms most of
>my life. I have never witnessed the conditions described here. Dairy cattle
>I've seen live in pastures and come to the barn (of their own volition) for
>milking. Beef cattle roam ranges until they're rounded up for slaughter. 
>Every hog farm I've seen had outdoor pens with sheds for them to get out of
>the weather.

People trying to argue points that are essentially philosophical (i.e.
the morality/immorality of eating meat) do not want to look for the
BALANCE of what is GENERALLY done.  They want to argue about the
extremes (that are probably not terribly prevalent), because it's much
easier to argue morality over extreme cases.

Like you, I've never seen such extreme conditions.  I've got relatives
that farm, and the cattle roams the ranges, and there are outdoor hog
pens just as you describe.  The extreme forms of mis-treatment
probably do exist somewhere, but since they're unhealthy for the
animals, it's unwise to run a farm in such ways.  Farmers don't want
to have sick animals on the farm, because sickness spreads, and
results in lower productivity.  Cruelty to animals isn't merely of
questionable immorality - it's also counterproductive.

And is there actually a farm left in North America that uses the
"traditional" methods of darkness/confinement/rather strange diet to
produce white veal?  Veal is one of the animal rights movement's
classic examples of cruelty to animals.  I'm not sure that there are
any farms around that still use the procedures that are described in
the animal rights propaganda.

-- 
Christopher Browne                |     PGP 2.0 key available
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