HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ward@sun17.vlsi.uwaterloo.ca (Paul A.S. Ward)
Subject: Re: Jewish Joke of the Day
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 23:40:07 GMT

In article <1992Dec21.195907.1@vxdesy.desy.de> godfrey@vxdesy.desy.de writes:
>In article <1h4j3dINNsn0@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, ad980@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Paul S. Wolf) writes:
>> 
>> 
>> I got the following out of Rabbi Joseph telushkin's Book on
>> Jewish Humor...
>> 
>> 	Found on a sign above a Urinal at Hebrew University in
>> 	Jerusalem....
>> 		THE FUTURE OF THE JEWISH PEOPLE IS IN YOUR HANDS.
>> 
>> 
>If we're on grafitti jokes I think I prefer:
>
>"  my mother made me a homosexual"
>
>and written below in another hand:
>
>"if I send her the wool, could she make me one too?"
>
>Laurence

Sorry, the best bit of grafitti definitely has to be

"Absolute Zero is OK"
From: rlc1028@zeus.tamu.edu (Gadson Sandor)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Refuting Xian Missionaries (README)
Date: 28 Dec 1992 16:50 CST
Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station, TX
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: zeus.tamu.edu

In article <5022@ceylon.gte.com>, sg04@gte.com writes...
| 
|In general, I agree with conducting debates and discussion on a logical,
|intellectual basis. However, those who attempt to do this with missionaries
|should be aware of the following:
| 
|...are strong anti-intellectual tendancies in Xtianity. If one tries to use
|such an approach on missionaries, they smile at you as some sort of poor
|lost soul who cannot appreciate pure emotianal love.

	Yeah, but they tend to get tired of it all and leave you alone.

G.Sandor
From: cm406@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (J. Y. Yosh Mantinband)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Feld Fraud?
Date: 24 Dec 1992 21:35:15 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In article <1992Dec24.172950.14625@netcom.com> strnlght@netcom.com (David
Sternlight) writes:
 
> I am starting to become suspicious of this affair. I know something
> about current U.S. Jails, and the claim that the Felds have spent the
> past month shackled hand and foot, in a Jail in Santa Clara,
> California to the extent that they cannot lay tefillin simply doesn't
> compute.
 
I am re-posting an item that i previously distributed on BALTUVA and 
JEM.  These are from private e-mail messages I received from people 
who have visited the Felds in jail:
 
--------------------------------------------------------------
 
From: cm406@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (J. Y. Yosh Mantinband)
Subject: How the Felds are faring
 
I received the following notes from people in the San Jose area.  I
am re-posting these to the list because I think there are people who
will want to know how the Felds are faring.  I have omitted
the original authors' names and other identifying info to protect
their privacy since I am re-posting at my initiative.
 
> I saw your note about the Felds.  I am a member of the local
> community and
> they are getting a lot of support here.  Rabbi Levin of Chabad in Palo
> Alto is the Jewish "chaplain" for the jail where they are held and he
> has organized daily visits to them to help them daven (they are both
> shackled hand and foot and can't put on tefillin themselves) and to
> light candles for Chanukah. My husband went Saturday night and I know
> others have done it every night since.
>
> =============================================================================
>
> I did see the Feld Brothers Monday night (12/21/92).  <---> and I
> lit Chanuka candles for them, one at a time since they reside on
> different floors in the prison.  I lit for Yisrael and <---> lit for
> Avraham.  We waited the full half hour for the candles to burn which
> gave us a chance to talk to the Feld Brothers and get know them. Avraham
> seemed to be in better spirits then Yisrael, but not knowing them, It
> could have been their personalities.  I believe that Avraham mentioned
> that they were living on fruits and vegetables.  I also heard that Rabbi
> Levin was trying to arrange Kosher food for them.  I called Rabbi Levin
> and left a message to have him call me, as soon as I have an update
> I will let you know.  Most of the conversation we had with the Felds
> centered around their families and lives in Israel and they asked about
> us and our lives in San Jose.  I left the prison finding it hard to
> believe that they have been arrested.
 
--------------------------------------------------------------
 
Also I have spoken to family members that confirm that this is the 
case.
 
Yosh M.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: reference provided
From: pab1@quads.uchicago.edu (paul andrew braier)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 15:09:45 GMT
Reply-To: pab1@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

> tjm@hrt213.brooks.af.mil (Tim Miller) writes:
>
>	"Would that Man would forsake Me and keep my mitvot."  HaShem
>said this, can someone provide a source?

I believe that the following quote is the one:

   "Better that they [the Jews] abandon Me but follow My laws" (for,
   the Talmud adds, by practicing Judaism's laws, the Jews will
   return to G-d, _Jerusalem_Talmud_Haggigah_ 1:7)

I got this quote from Prager and Telushkin's book 'The Nine Questions
People ask about Judaism.'

Paul

-----------------------
Paul A. Braier
pab1@quads.uchicago.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: isaac@etrog.se.citri.edu.au (Dr Isaac Balbin)
Subject: Re: Name of Palestinian Deportees (part i)
Organization: Collaborative Information Technology Research Institute
Date:  4 Jan 93 02:38:32 GMT

aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa) writes:

>In article <isaac.726061332@etrog> isaac@etrog.se.citri.edu.au (Dr Isaac Balbin) writes:
>>
>>They are a living testimony  of all that is profane.

>So, you would say that the Israelis of old, who murdered hashem to
>protect their land, were committing a sacrilege?

What in the name of Islam are you talking about?
I haven't even seen your account of history in Aesop's fables.
Where are you digging this tripe up from?

>You are right, however.  The strong believers are definitely standing
>up to the Israeli government, whose evil deeds, corruption, and 
>blasphemy are clear only to those who haven't been blinded.
Evil? Only if you consider something against the Koran as  being evil.
Corruption? Are you copying out of a Thesaurus?
Blasphemy? To Islam? Maybe. Who cares? If it blasphemous that Jews
live  on what the Koran might deem `Arab Land' So be it.
From: rlk@underprize.think.com (Robert Krawitz)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Why I became an Athiest (was: frustrations with christianity)
Date: 23 Dec 92 20:34:18
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge Mass., USA
	<1992Dec18.162650.20051@umbc3.umbc.edu>
	<RLK.92Dec18182618@underprize.think.com>
	<1992Dec19.041303.13970@tc.cornell.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: underprize.think.com
In-reply-to: bai@msiadmin.cit.cornell.edu's message of 19 Dec 92 04:13:03 GMT

In article <1992Dec19.041303.13970@tc.cornell.edu> bai@msiadmin.cit.cornell.edu (Dov Bai-MSI Visitor) writes:

   From a previous post by Robert Krawitz

   >But if you start out with an assumption (belief, if you will) that
   >individuals are equal, and that distinction should not be made between
   >the sexes, and that men and women should not be separated during normal
   >day to day activity, it's very easy, and not at all dishonest or
   >weak-minded, to come to the conclusion that Judaism makes serious
   >mistakes.  Again, that's based on one's world view.  Sure, it's starting
   >with unprovable assumptions, but that's for each individual to make.

   There is nothing dishonet about questioning one's beliefs in the
   face of sexism (As I understand Maddy did). It is, however, inconsistent
   to state that one rejects sexism just because he/she happens to 
   feel like it today, and at the same time to criticize religious 
   persons for being sexist because THEY feel God commanded them to do it.
   If one accepts feeling as a basis for morality, then anyone's feelings 
   are equally valid.

Hmm.  Evidently I said something that would indicate that I believe that
feelings are the sole source of morality.  That wasn't really what I
meant.

Yes, one can start with a set of core beliefs or assumptions and from
those derive a morality, or a religion, or what have you.  In fact, I
don't see any other way.  Those who are religious are doing the same
thing, basing their morality on their understanding of the bible,
talmud, etc.

The example you quote is inconsistent using one criterion ( "feelings
are the source of morality"), but consistent along another ("society
should not make distinctions between people on the basis of one
characteristic that may not even be relevant to the matter of whether
someone is capable of performing a certain task").  To that I plead
guilty, as I suspect everyone else here does (albeit with respect
different sets of criteria).  So?  Morality is man-made, whatever its
origin (even if it comes from a divinely inspired or written source, the
choice about whether to accept it, and how to interpret and apply it, is
a human choice, and Judaism believes in free will).
--
ames >>>>>>>>>  |	Robert Krawitz <rlk@think.com>	245 First St.
bloom-beacon >  |think!rlk				Cambridge, MA  02142
harvard >>>>>>  .	Thinking Machines Corp.		(617)234-2116

Member of the League for Programming Freedom -- write lpf@uunet.uu.net
From: "ken halfon" <ken.halfon@execnet.com>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: johah stories (3)
Date: 3 Jan 93 20:23:34 EST
Reply-To: "ken halfon" <ken.halfon@execnet.com>
Distribution: soc
Organization: Executive Networks Information

     Perhaps it's time for a few more:

Johah went to the well and began cleaning his cat. A friend came by and
said you shouldn't wash the cat, it cleans itself and if you wash it,
it will die.  Johah ignored the warning and continued to wash the cat.
Another person passing by offered the same advice but Johah persisted
and continued to wash the cat. The next day Johah's friend came by and
found Johah in tears. "What's wrong" he inquired. "My cat died"
Johah replied. I told you if you wash the cat it would die the friend
said. Johah said "It wasn't the washing that killed him." "It was when
I rung him out."...

Johah was married and often quarrelled with his wife. "Johah", his
wife said, "go to the market and look for work". Johah went to the
market and returned having not found work. His wife pushed him again
to go look for work so once again Johah went to the market and again
came home with nothing. In disgust his wife said "Go be a musician
in the cemetery" (as if there were such a position). Johah thought
it was a reasonable suggestion so he went to the cemetery and played
an old drum he had brought along. Along came a wolf and as Johah played
the wolf danced. Johah played faster the wolf danced faster. After a
while the Wolf called Johah over and gave him some money and advised
Johah to return to his home. His wife was thrilled... now they could
buy food and all the things they hadn't had for a while. When the
money ran out Johah returned to the cemetery. He beat the drum and
the wolf came out again and danced he beat the drum faster and the
wolf danced faster... as before the wolf called him over after a time.
This time he gave Johah an entire bag of gold coins. Johah returned
home. His wife was thrilled.. They now had money for everything they
needed or wanted. They were living very comfortably. But this wasn't
enough for Johah and he decided to go back. This time his wife said
No. She tried to stop Johah but Johah went anyway. He got to the
cemetery and began beating his drum and soon the wolf came out.
He beat the drum and the wolf danced... after a while the wolf
stopped dancing and not being summoned Johah went over to the
wolf anyway. The wolf said, "at our first meeting you were skinny
and poor and I took pity on you and gave you some coins and you
went home. The second time you came you were still thin and I
gave you a bag of gold. Now you are plump and just right to...
EAT... I will give you one final courtesy though I will let you
tell me where my feast is to begin. Johah thought a moment and
then said "start at my ears. For they did not listen to my wife.


That's all till next Hanukkah!

                                                          ->>> KEN <<<-
---
  DeLuxe 1.26b #2354  ILINK...Therfore I AM!
--
Executive Network Information System  (914) 667-4567
International ILink Host
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: tjm@hrt213.brooks.af.mil (Tim Miller)
Subject: Re: Homosexuals should be allowed into the military
Organization: AL/HRTI, Brooks AFB
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 18:58:07 GMT

On Mon, 28 Dec 1992 20:24:19 GMT, lexier@fraser.sfu.ca (Mr. Spock) said:

M> Hello everyone,

	Highdyho.

M>      Homosexuals should NOT be discriminated against.  Homosexuals
M> should be allowed into the military.  I cannot comprehend why so many
M> people discriminate against gays in the military.

	It comes down to unit morale.

	To quote a Marine I know: "You're in a firefight.  The guy next
to you just had a hole blown in his gut.  Are you going to shove your
fist into his belly to stop the bleeding knowing he's at a higher risk
of AIDS?"  Whether he has AIDS or not, whether you can contract AIDS or
not isn't the issue.  The *perception* is that this is the case; and
that effects morale.  Not a good idea.

	Studies of co-ed vs. segregated units in Desert Shield/Desert
Storm have shown a significant morale problem in co-ed units.  Put
crudely: not all the grunts were getting any, and that hurt morale.
Morale directly affects unit performance; unit performance directly
affects body counts.

	At this moment, with the current set of perceptions most people
have, unit morale is going to plummet should homosexuals be mandated
into the ranks.  And that, my friends, is going to kill people.

M>      There are many different types of gay people, just like straight
M> people.  There are gays who are caring individuals, rabbis,

	Not mine.  Violation of a halacha.

M> charitable people in the community, teachers, fathers, doctors, and
M> the list goes on.  

	This was never argued.

M>			In fact there are more straight people who rape
M> and kill women than there are gay men who rape and or murder other
M> men.  

	This is not the issue.  ('Course, one could argue that there are
a lot more straight people, but that's neither here nor there...)

M>	It is just in the news media where you get a different picture
M> of gays.  They are always so ready to broadcast a sick faggot who
M> raped and murdered ten young boys, yet they don't report good and
M> honorable gays who have contributed to our community at large.

	Of course, the media is also so quick to portray the sick
african-american who raped and murdered a young woman, or the sick WASP
who blazed away in a Luby's while people cowered under the tables, or
the sick...  Face it, the media thrives on bad news; it sells.

-- Cerebus <tjm@hrt213.brooks.af.mil>
"So why is this in s.c.j anyway?  Is there a soc.military?"
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,misc.headlines,talk.politics.misc,misc.legal
From: cwt@mitre.org (Carl Traber)
Subject: Re: "Technicalities" (was The NYPD situation)
Organization: Mitre Corporation, Bedford, MA.
	<1992Dec5.142703.29789@athena.mit.edu>
	<1992Dec24.000101.5017@bony1.bony.com>
	<CWT.92Dec24092209@shockley.mitre.org>
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 14:41:47 GMT

cwt@mitre.org (Carl Traber) writes, in response to an article by
   jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni) writes:

   [snip]

   You make me feel sick.  I pray that, should I ever have to face
   charges in a court of law, that I get a jury that is as careful as
   we were.  And from the conversations I had with other jurors while
   we were waiting to be selected (or not) for subsequent trials, I
   have every expectation that such careful consideration is the de-facto
   condition with juries, and not the exception.

Please accept my apology for misspeaking (mistyping?).  I should have
said that it is your attitude that I detest.  And that attitude is a
sure-fire way to destroy what I perceive as a great guardian of our
liberty, AS LONG AS JURIES CAN BE COUNTED UPON TO RENDER FAIR AND
IMPARTIAL VERDICTS.  Unfortunately, I have also heard of some
communities where the distrust between black and white citizens runs
so deep that black jurors are now routinely refusing to convict other
blacks, in spite of overwhelming evidence of guilt.  And this due to
their stated perception of unfairness in the system vis-a-vis blacks.


-- Carl Traber    cwt@shockley.mitre.org
                  My opinions, not MITRE's
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Subject: Re: Kahane's philosophy
Reply-To: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe AZ
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 14:58:41 GMT

In article <3135@israel.nysernet.org> warren@nysernet.org writes:

# dm: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)

# me: I believe that I understand David Makowsky to mean that there is
# me: nothing wrong with Binyamin Kahane saying

# me:     "As far as I'm concerned, kill any Arab who stands in our way, in the
# me:     most humane manner possible, causing the least suffering."

# me: in light of his emotions, which are due to his father's murder.
 
# me: I disagree.  I understand why he feels that way, but I insist that he
# me: has a responsibility to either control himself or to seek counselling.
 
# dm: Well, he has controled himself.  As to counseling, perhaps you are
# dm: correct.  Perhpas not. But either way, there is nothing wrong with
# dm: what he said.
 
# As he made the objectionable statement, he clearly has not controlled
# himself.

	But he has controlled himself.  He has not killed anyone.  As to
seeking counseling, that is only necessary if he is about to do
something.  He does not need counseling just because he made that
statement.

# And why is "nothing wrong" in your latest posting not
# qualified with the emotional state of who said it?

	It is implied.
--
	There are three types of people in the world.  Those that are good
at math and those that are not.

makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu
Organization: The American University - University Computing Center
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 19:41:09 EST
From: <CARIAN@auvm.american.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: ACLU/AJC Menorah Police?

In article <4974@ceylon.gte.com>, sg04@gte.com (Yechezkal Shimon Gutfreund)
says:
>
>In article 210935CARIAN@auvm.american.edu, CARIAN@auvm.american.edu () writes:
>] Most of the rest of the Cincinnati Jewish community is not very happy with
>] Chabad these days.
>]
>
>I'm not sure much can be made of this statistic (verifiable or not). For
>example, the intermarriage rate for Jews is 50%. Would one then derive
>from this some conclusions about Jews happiness with being Jewish, or about
>the suitability of Jews as spouses?
>
The folks in Cincinnati I discussed this with were not intermarried or
assimilated.

They were for the most part faculty members at Hebrew Union College or
else daveners at a nameless Orthodox shtiebel I attended Friday evening
or Cong. B'nai Tzedek, the Conservative shul I attended Saturday morning.

I agree with Yechezkal's statement that my impressions don't, statistically,
prove a thing.

But I have to also state my own subjective feeling that the Chabad penchant for
putting up Big Menorahs all over the place *on public property* is ultimately
Not Good For The Jews (tm).

Rabbi Charles Arian
CARIAN@american.edu
From: nmiller@starbase.trincoll.edu (norman miller)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: ACLU/AJC Menorah Police?
Date: 22 Dec 92 16:00:19 GMT
Organization: Trinity College, Hartford, CT.

In article <1992Dec22.043151.4109@wam.umd.edu> mstern@wam.umd.edu (Michael Stern
) writes:

>A 'secular society' is a euphemism.  There can be no truly 'secular'
>society, since there would be nothing to keep it together.  Contemporary
>US has come pretty close lately, but if you believe that we a re a
>'secular' state, take a field trip to a shopping mall this week!

A euphemism?  A euphemism for what?  A godless society, as the Pat
Robertsons are fond of saying?  That's comic-book thinking.

The notion that a secular society would have no glue to keep it together
is one of those pop sociological maxims that pay no attention to the
overwhelming sociological reality that--with the exception of states
like Iran, Sudan, Saudi Arabia--all other modern societies are secular.
That's what European (and world) history has been about since the 15th
century.

A secular society is not a society without traditions, values or insti-
tutions; it is one in which _ultimate control_ over these traditions,
values and institutions does not rest with religious authorities.

Lastly, Michael Stern learned the wrong lesson from his field trip.
The Christmas trees and stuff are an illustration of secularization,
not its opposite: conservative Christians have for centuries opposed
all or some aspects of the celebration of Christmas.  None of the deci-
sions regarding Christmas displays (with the _possible_ exception of
the creche) have, as far as I know, the slightest thing to do with church
doctrines, teachings or authority; they are governed by considerations
of profit.

Norman Miller
From: dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Question on "Jewish mother = jewish children"
Date: 22 Dec 92 18:12:07 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <CPLS13-181292123549@145.1.92.160> CPLS13@email.mot.com (Steven_Cohn) writes:
>The child is normally converted as soon as the adoption is legal,
>regardless of the age.  Even babies are converted in this manner - the
>process normally consists of only Mikvah and for a boy also Brit Milah.  It
>can, of course be done at any age.

Isn't that only a token conversion, though?  I heard that it must be
re-done when the child is old enough to understand all that conversion
means. 
-- 
  |)  David Charlap          | .signature confiscated by FBI due to
 /|_  dic5340@hertz.njit.edu | an ongoing investigation into the
((|,)                        | source of these .signature virusses
 ~|~
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: merlyn@digibd.digibd.com (Merlyn LeRoy)
Subject: Re: Why I became an Athiest (was: frustrations with christianity)
Organization: DigiBoard, Incorporated, Eden Prairie,MN
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 17:31:55 GMT

tjm@hrt213.brooks.af.mil (Tim Miller) writes:

>	I do mean to state that atheism is a religion.  But that's
>neither here nor there.  I think the issue is that Maddi is
>misunderstanding what is meant by atheism; this is a common confusion.
>The true atheists I know would take pains to correct her misconceptions
>as well.

I'm an atheist, and Maddi's definition is better than yours.

Atheists don't believe in gods.  If you ask them what god[s] they
believe in, they will say they don't believe in any of them.  Some
make the stronger assertion that no gods exist.  Like theists, some
atheists say they are absolutely certain that they are right; other
atheists, like other theists, say they aren't certain that they are
right.  Such uncertain atheists are no less atheists than uncertain
theists are theists.

I don't play Who is a Jew, kindly don't play Who is an Atheist.

---
Meryn LeRoy
Xref: sparky soc.culture.jewish:24262 soc.culture.african.american:13332