HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard)
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy
Subject: Re: Newsgroup creation guidelines (was Re: Folklore, synth, and guidelines)
Date: 23 Dec 92 02:13:44 GMT
Organization: UT Health Science Center Houston

In article <1992Dec22.194946.54964@watson.ibm.com> strom@Watson.Ibm.Com (Rob Strom) writes:
>Besides the rec.music.synth vote (which I missed, but would have
>abstained from all questions other than the rms question had I voted),
>the only similar case I can recall is the rec.arts.drwho vote.
>This, too, was bundled with some other hierarchy like rec.sf-lovers,
>to which the proposer believed r.a.d "logically" belonged.  I
>voted "no" on the question, abstained on the irrelevant ones,
>and the "logical" reorganization was defeated.  

...because concerned citizens went out and drummed up opposition to the
proposal. Ferchrissake, man! There was more flamage about that reorg than
about anything else in a long, long time.

In this case, concerned citizens knew that something was going on and did
nothing. This is the first case where such a thing has happened. I don't know
why there wasn't more of a hue and cry raised, but I think it's reasonable to
believe that the current case is the exception. After all, Scott Forbes got it
right when he said that anything of note is accomplished on the net by
flaming...

>I think an extra ballot or two every couple of years is
>well worth the price of avoiding the kind of situation
>which we encountered with rms.

I think taking Dave Hayes out back and shooting him is well worth the price of
avoiding the kind of situation we encountered with rms.

Sorry, but your statement is no more valid.
-- 
Jay Maynard, EMT-P, K5ZC, PP-ASEL | Never ascribe to malice that which can
jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu      | adequately be explained by stupidity.
 "Brought to you by the letters O, S, and by the number 2." -- Mike Levis
Xref: sparky news.admin.policy:870 comp.ai:4696 alt.society.civil-liberties:743
From: kbibb@maui.qualcomm.com (Ken Bibb)
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy,comp.ai,alt.society.civil-liberties
Subject: AI protected by Constitution? (Was Re: Paul Pomes of UIUC.EDU in electronic harrassment business. NOT!)
Date: 25 Dec 92 04:03:53 GMT
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA

In <11084.3248.uupcb@factory.com> michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos)  writes:


>Anatolia.mn.org, the exclusive gateway of the #1 internet/usenet abuser,
>the unstoppable, electronically unadressable M.U.T.L.U. / A.R.G.I.C,
>the first-amendment beneficiary from the country where people
     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

	Do non-sentient programs get Constitutional rights?  I don't
	think so...  Opinions?

>have no first amendment (or equivalent) rights[1], complaining about
>misuse of computing facilities?

-- 
Ken Bibb                "he heard the snow falling faintly through the
kbibb@qualcomm.com	 universe and faintly falling, like the descent of
jester@crash.cts.com     their last end, upon all the living and the dead."
				--"The Dead", James Joyce
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy
From: molenda@i1.msi.umn.edu (Jason Molenda)
Subject: Re: contacting anatolia.mn.org
Organization: University of Minnesota
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 16:36:02 GMT

krol@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Ed Krol) writes:

>The mail bomb by paul pomes was hardly a bomb.  What he did was
>forward postings made to news.admin.policy which were inappropriate
>back to postmaster@anatolia with a not saying could you please stop

I should have chosen my words more carefully; that is what Cosar had
claimed it was.  I figured that either (a) he was exaggerating or (b)
it was forged and hadn't considered the matter worth pursuing.  Thanks
for the clarification.
-- 
Jason Molenda, University of Minnesota, Supercomputer Inst., Technical Support
SGI Iris Admin        molenda@jason.msi.umn.edu       DoD #1867     '77 CB750F
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy,alt.fan.hasan-mutlu,alt.fan.serdar-argic,soc.culture.turkish,trial.test,alt.destroy.the.earth,alt.devilbunnies,alt.flame,alt.cascade,alt.sex
From: kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry)
Subject: Re: "Serdar Argic" vs. Kibo with DEVILBUNNIES
Keywords: turkey genocide armenia
Organization: Two rooms filled with typography, in downtown Boston
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 23:36:14 GMT

In article <1992Dec30.121233.4856@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> jfurr@nyx.cs.du.edu (Joel Furr) writes:
>In article <9212271658@zuma.UUCP> sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic) writes:
>>In article <BzuL9s.CCy@polaris.async.vt.edu> jfurr@polaris.async.vt.edu (J. Furr) writes:
>>>Or perhaps someone here can help me.  Assuming I'm in my killfile and know
>>>how to type, how do I set things up to kill all posts authored by "Serdar
>>>Argic"?
>>
>>Thanks so much. By the way, you make me laugh.
>
>"Serdar Argic", you think you're hot stuff, right?  You think you've got
>the entire net on the run from your AI-produced idiocy?  Buddy, you
>haven't BEGUN to touch on the track record of grep-produced followups the
>ALL-TIME CHAMPION holds.  
>
>I'll be impressed when "Serdar Argic" takes on KIBO and comes out
>standing.  Not that it'll ever happen, of course.  "Serdar Argic" is too
>GUTLESS to fight.

That's nothing.  Did you know that he's never been seen in the same room
as Nels0n 0TBIFF (aka N0TBIFF) at the same time?  Kind of makes you wonder.

						-- K.

Newsgroups: news.admin.policy
From: jim@ferkel.ucsb.edu (Jim Lick)
Subject: Re: Canceling other people's postings
Organization: University of California, Santa Barbara
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 20:27:17 GMT

In article <ByuG25.A5v@mtholyoke.edu> jbotz@mtholyoke.edu (Jurgen Botz) writes:
>... I stated that the only time that it's appropriate for
>a third party to cancel a post is in the case of a moderator canceling
>unapproved articles to his/her group.

Actually there are more reasons than just that.  Just about a month ago
someone posted about a mailing list I run in a popular related newsgroup.
Unfortunately he listed the address of the list itself as the address to
send to to get subscribed.  This resulted in several dozen folks sending
subscribe requests to the list in a short period of time.  This caused a
lot of wasted resources and inconvenience to nearly 300 subscribers who
all received the misguided subscription requests.  Since I felt that this
was somewhat urgent, I sent out a cancel message for the article and
then sent a note to the poster explaining what I did and why.  The
poster was not upset at what I did.  It's difficult to make clear cut
rules of what is and is not an acceptable use of third-party cancel.
Best I can come up with is if it causes some quantifiable damage, then
the affected third-party should be able to cancel.  I also think that
notifying the original poster of this action is an important thing to
do, as the person will be much more understanding about things if you
are up-front and clear about the action.  It's also important that only
the affected party should issue the cancel, as they are the only ones
to judge whether the damage is significant enough and urgent enough to
warrant a cancel.

--- jim@pi-chan.ucsb.edu --- Jim Lick --- jim@tcp.com --- jIngOrO@CaveMUCK ---
--:):-- perfect little dream the kind that hurts the most -- |\| | |/| --:(:--
--- CaveMUCK is back! --- Telnet to cave.tcp.com (128.95.10.106) port 2283 ---
From: dev.null (Serdar Argic is a fool)
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy
Subject: Is it live, or is it Memorex?
Date: 23 Dec 1992 03:06:16 GMT
Organization: U. C. Berkeley
Distribution: world
Reply-To: dev.null (Serdar Argic is a fool)
NNTP-Posting-Host: forney.berkeley.edu

I am curious what "Serdar Argic", the AI daemon dedicated to defending
the honor of the Turks against those evil Armenians, will do with this
article.


--
Joe Buck	jbuck@ohm.berkeley.edu
From: gwh@soda.berkeley.edu (George William Herbert)
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy
Subject: Re: contacting anatolia.mn.org
Date: 31 Dec 1992 05:46:03 GMT
Organization: Dis-
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu
Summary: Been Tried

In article <1992Dec30.151226.23122@news2.cis.umn.edu> molenda@i1.msi.umn.edu (Jason Molenda) writes:
>...
>Has anyone out there tried contacting anatolia.mn.org in a _sane_
>manner (i.e. not dumping five gigabytes of crap down its throat.)?
>Could you please let me know (a) which mail address you sent the
>message to and, if you still might have the message handy, (b)
>what the text of the message was.
>
>It is tough to hold a discussion with a system administrator who
>claims complete ignorance of the entire matter.  Any help would
>be appreciated.

The system administrator of anatolia.mn.org is(was) Hasan B. Mutlu,
I have had quite a bit of correspondence with him, and none of it
approached rationality more than the Sergar posts do.

I'm the one responsible for the wierd news-only path through anatolia
to zuma, apparently; the zuma.uucp posts were being forged through
the open nntp server of ucbvax.berkeley.edu for a while (months)
at one point.  I pointed out that for some interpretations of the
news protocol's RFC, postings with no possible mail return path
were in violation of the RFC, and so could/should be blocked.
At which point the posts shifted to coming through the path
	zuma!anatolia!uunet
but that was news only, not mail.  A neat trick, all in all, and I gave
up eventually (three threats of lawsuits later, two by Hasan and one
by me that my attorney informed me really wasn't worth pursuing unless
I could prove commercial damage or severe emotional trauma, and be
willing to fly to Mutlu's hometown for trial 8-P ), no less than four
complaints to my system administrators at this machine (which led to
Mutlu's being told to bugger off... thank you, root@soda 8-), and
insane amounts of random news posts.  A short exchange with his
system administrator at his school account was most enlightening,
though I'll not repost those details out of respect for the privacy
of the people involved.  I begin to wonder if I should have
asked that the account be turned off, as the administrator
suggested might happen if I pressed a formal complaint,
but he was bothering me from anatolia mostly, so I said no.

I started out the exchange calmly and w/o any threats to Mutlu,
and he went ballistic at any implied action of any sort against
zuma or anatolia.  I have little interest in doing the whole shebang
again for no result.  Nor does my attorney.

End results:
You can't get mail to Zuma via anatolia, even if they're in the same room.
If you harrass anatolia (i.e. continue to send mail to anatolia!zuma
	or postmaster@anatolia) they'll complain, and you'll be busy.
His school wasn't happy with him, but attacking him there would be
	immoral since he's not using that account for usenet or mail
	in general any more.
An alternative solution is needed, or just ignore the problem. I am
	going to post a possible alternative solution later tonight.

-george william herbert
gwh@soda.berkeley.edu

Newsgroups: news.admin.policy
From: Volkmar.Grote@Stollmann.DE (Volkmar Grote)
Subject: Re: Still not addressing the original points made, asshole
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 92 11:36:12 GMT
Organization: Stollmann GmbH, D-2000 Hamburg 50, Germany
Originator: vg@sai1

rdippold@cancun.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold) writes:

| Certainly some of the answers seem a bit strange and detached, but
| what do you expect?   Calling Serdar an AI would be quit a compliment.
					  ^^
More like AS (artificial stupidity)? :-)

Volkmar

P.S: I start to enjoy this! It's a bit like reading the "Punch"!
From: c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos)
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy
Subject: re: removing anatolia from mn.org
Date: 2 Jan 1993 23:08:26 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

kbibb@qualcomm.com (Ken Bibb) writes:

>anatolia would then have to pay for a mail feed, and will be more likely
>to curb serdar because anatolia will pay for all of the mail that will
>be fed back to it from the posts.  If anatolia wants to pay for the
>privilege of being flamed and mailbombed, then that's their business.

Don't forget a very basic thing; there is really no need for anatolia
to have a mail feed. The presense of a real mail feed would 
indicate that Mr. Mutlu/Argic is somehow interested in conversing with
his, ehm, audience, which is not the case.

Economics have little to do with all this. Both Mr. Mutlu/Argic and 
Mr. Cosar have indicated with their actions in the past and present that
'the show will go on' regardless of personal costs. 

If one is willing to be the BIFFster of the 1990's, what's a few hundrend
dollars a year to UUNET? 

Spiros
--
(some .signature)




Newsgroups: news.admin.policy
From: molenda@i1.msi.umn.edu (Jason Molenda)
Subject: Re: (repost) Serdar Argic FAQ - everything you didn't want to know, but he replied anyway
Organization: University of Minnesota
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 18:35:53 GMT

cudcv@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Rob McMahon) writes:

>In article <iacovou.725924649@gurney> iacovou@gurney.cs.umn.edu (Neophytos
>Iacovou) writes: 
>>  Ahmet Cosar is a graduate student at the CSci dept. of the UofMn. He
>>  operates a site by the name of anatolia.mn.org. The site anatolia.mn.org is
>>  a member of .mn.org. The domain .mn.org exists because it provides services
>>  to a number of hobbyests and small companies around the state of Minnesota.

>Who does run mn.org, then ?  Who is above anatolia in the tree ?  Who can we

The Unix Users of Minnesota.  Please see any of my previous messages in
news.admin.policy -- it explains all this in detail, I think.

>appeal to to get anatolia cut off from this supply, since it appears that not
>only the users of this system, but also the the sys admin, cannot work out how
>to be good net.citizens ?  

The people who provide MX nameservice for anatolia.mn.org (note that
the posts from ``Argic'' aren't going through any of the mn.org
systems!) are looking in to the matter, but there really isn't (IMHO)
much they can do.  Badmouthing, mail-bombing, or other actions against
UUM isn't really going to accomplish much except waste a lot of their
(personal) time.

>to be good net.citizens ?  I can understand umn gettting upset about all the
>mail bombings, 

umn (the University of Minnesota) couldn't give a rat's arse about mail
bombings to anatolia.mn.org.  It doesn't effect us at all.  The Unix
Users of Minnesota, an organization which, for $60/year, people can
join and have an MX record advertised on the Internet for their site.
Most (all?) of the mn.org sites live via UUCP.  I believe UUM is a
non-profit org, but I don't keep up with details like that too
closely.  The people who are running the news/mail are doing most
(all?) of this in their free time and aren't some Evil Clearinghouse
with the mission to provide dweebs with access to the net.

>mail bombings, but if the sys admin at the site won't respond, what other
>recourse do we have.  *Someone* must be in a position to cut off the feed.

Not necessarily.  Please read news.admin.policy if you haven't been
following it closely -- both UUNET and UUM are in a sticky position and
I don't think either will do anything.  If the justification is ``we
don't like how his site is behaving'', I don't think either
organization *should* do anything.  UUM is in the position of having
their service interrupted because of the actions of anatolia.mn.org, so
something may happen because of that, but don't hold your breath.  Cutting
this guy off could set a rather nasty precedent.

(more importantly, if mn.org drops anatolia, the Argic postings till get
through uunet).
-- 
Jason Molenda, University of Minnesota, Supercomputer Inst., Technical Support
SGI Iris Admin        molenda@jason.msi.umn.edu       DoD #1867     '77 CB750F
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy
From: kbibb@maui.qualcomm.com (Ken Bibb)
Subject: Serdar is furry? (was Re: Quicksilver virus on furry Muck -- solved!)
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 23:23:09 GMT

In <C0Au7L.82H@polaris.async.vt.edu> jfurr@polaris.async.vt.edu (J. Furr) writes:

>1) People who looked at the virus code said "my, this programming looks
>verrrrry similar to code written by Targhan."  Targhan is a player on many
>MUCKs who was responsible for disrupting events on MasqueMUCK with a
>program that made everyone slur drunkenly, among other things.  Targhan
>plays the character on FurryMUCK called "Korthedon."  Korthedon will deny
>being Targhan but has admitted being Targhan to several people.  Targhan
>and Korthedon also have the same email address, mtymp06@staff.tc.umn.edu.
                                                                  ^^^^^^^

Isn't this coincidental? ;)  Maybe it's Mutlu again, he slurs, etc...


-- 
Ken Bibb                "he heard the snow falling faintly through the
kbibb@qualcomm.com	 universe and faintly falling, like the descent of
jester@crash.cts.com     their last end, upon all the living and the dead."
				--"The Dead", James Joyce
From: hartman@ulogic.UUCP (Richard M. Hartman)
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy
Subject: Re: etiquette
Date: 31 Dec 92 17:37:38 GMT
Organization: negligable

In article <92365.104636EH9174A@auvm.american.edu> EH9174A@auvm.american.edu writes:
>The notorious files that are simultaneously posted in various soc.culture files
> every day and are from the same source rarely have well documented sources.  T
>he documentation of sources is a requirement for posting and is listed as such
>in etiquette in the help files.  This individual (most know him/her by now) sel
>dom sites the sources of his avalanche of viewpoints (appearing over 10 or more
> times per day).  No human could possibly type so much!  Replies sent to this f
>ile are always rejected (i.e. sent back).  All of the described are violations
>of netnews etiquette.  Who is the etiquette expert and enforcer?  Or is there o
>ne?

Welcome to Usenet!

No. There is no "higher authority" on Usenet.  The net is a collective
entity consisting of hundreds (thousands?) of individually run sites
that have agreed to exchange / pass on messages.   Netiquette is just
that -- guidelines intended to make life easier on the net.  There are
no rules, in the sense that rules can be enforced.  Anyone with a feed
can do damn near anything they think they can get away with.  The typical
method of "enforcement" is roughly:

	posted flames
	complaints to the poster
	"mail bombs" to the poster
	complaints to the poster's sysadmin
	complaints to the poster's site's feed site

Mail doesn't seem to get to the poster in these cases.

Mail to the sysadmin doesn't seem to be doing much good either.

MN.ORG should have a case for disconnecting anatolia's feed, since 
the MN.ORG computer has been crashed as a result of actions
initiated by anatolia's users.  Disruption of service should
always be good for a disconnect.  note: the crash was due to
overload from mail-bombs heading *for* anatolia, but clearly
in response *to* the mass of postings coming from anatolia.

However, from a previous posting I gather that even if MN.ORG
cut anatolia off, there is still a UUnet connection...

UUnet may have a harder time justifying it, unless there is a
clause in the feed contract stating that they expect their 
clients to follow the guidelines of the Usenet.  If there is
such a clause, maybe UUnet can use it as justification for
cutting off the connection.

Any comments from someone with UUnet?

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Lazy day, Sunday afternoon.			|
Like to get your feet up, watch TV.		|	-Richard Hartman	
Sunday roast is something good to eat,		|	hartman@uLogic.COM
must be lamb to day 'cause beef was last week!	|
From: msieweke@hayes.com
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy
Subject: keeping that pesky nuisance off of news.admin.*
Date: 29 Dec 92 14:02:35 EDT
Organization: Hayes Microcomputer Products, Norcross, GA

I've been watching this Syrdar Argyc problem for a while and I have 
a few observations and a few suggestions for keeping it off of 
news.admin.policy.

First, Syrdar is not an AI program.  Syrdar has an automated program
that searches every message in several newsgroups and brings to his
attention any message containing certain keywords.  (Some of the keywords
are probably Syrdar, Argyc, Tyrkey, Hysan, Mytlu, and slayghter.)
The automated program creates an automatic followup message with
a new subject line and followups to several new groups.  Syrdar adds 
a few lines of semi-relevant text to his followup before the automated 
program adds large quantities of propyganda.

Second, Syrdar has no interest in meaningful dialogue.  You can't
reason with it.  Syrdar's host does not accept electronic mail.

Third, Syrdar's link site is run by a sympathetic friend.  You can't
reason with the sysadmin.

Fourth, Syrdar may not be a single person.  There's no easy way to tell.

********
Now, how do we keep Syrdar out of news.admin.*?

1.  Don't spell the name correctly.  If you misspell the name, Syrdar's
automated program will not bring your posting to its attention.

2.  Don't follow up one of its posts.

3.  If you must follow-up to a post, edit the headers to misspell any
relevant keywords.

If we must discuss this nuisance in news.admin.*, this will keep the
garbage followups to a minimum.

********
Solutions?  I don't have any.  At a reasonable site, the sysadmin would
have cut this jerk off long ago.  Since resonable measures won't work,
I leave it up to more devious minds to decide what to do.
-- 
Mike Sieweke                            ...!uunet!hayes!msieweke
Hayes Microcomputer Products            msieweke@hayes.com
Norcross, Georgia                       hayes!msieweke@relay1.uu.net
"I've never seen so many people obsessed with the trivial!"
   - a co-worker after his first time reading news
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy
From: pcheah@nyx.cs.du.edu (Po Shan Cheah)
Subject: Argic keeps going and going and going ...
Followup-To: poster
Summary: more inane experiments
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix @ U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 92 05:11:38 GMT

Thank you, oh great Argic, for putting my name on the Subject line, an
honor reserved for your worst enemies.

But seriously, we have established that Argic actually scans
news.admin.policy itself, not just articles that arrive in
soc.culture.turkish by crossposting. Also, Argic writes new root
articles, and does not followup. (Or else it overrode the Followup-To:
poster in my previous article.)

One suggestion to Josh Smith: one way to prove that Argic is an
autoposter is to post an article consisting only of keywords that
might trigger it. The text of the article itself need not make sense. 


     Argic
 xxx xxx  Serdar Argic
         turkeys turkey turkish
     let's see whether  xxx xxx
                 ASALA/SDPA/ARF
    Mutlu fodder


--
-------------
Po Shan Cheah
pcheah@nyx.cs.du.edu
pc30@columbia.edu
From: larsen@imada.ou.dk (Soren Larsen)
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy
Subject: Re: Killfiles
Date: 27 Dec 92 16:53:44 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Math. & Computer Science, Odense University, Denmark

rahardj@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Budi Rahardjo) writes:


>Does this work with 'nn' or 'rn' ?. 
>I guess it's time for me to read man pages, ugh :-(

Always a good idea, but here is what I use in my init file for nn:

:!n=:Serdar Argic

-- 
Soren Larsen / larsen@imada.ou.dk
Dept. of Math. & Computer Science, Odense University
Campusvej 55, DK-5230 Odense M, Denmark
phone: +45 66 15 86 00, ext. 2312 / telefax: +45 65 93 26 91
From: rahardj@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Budi Rahardjo)
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy
Subject: Re: Killfiles
Date: 27 Dec 92 15:08:54 GMT
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada

In <Bzw598.JzF@zoo.toronto.edu> henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes:

>In article <BzuL9s.CCy@polaris.async.vt.edu> jfurr@polaris.async.vt.edu (J. Furr) writes:
>>Or perhaps someone here can help me.  Assuming I'm in my killfile and know
>>how to type, how do I set things up to kill all posts authored by "Serdar
>>Argic"?

>The relevant line in mine reads:

>/Serdar Argic/h:j

Does this work with 'nn' or 'rn' ?. 
I guess it's time for me to read man pages, ugh :-(

-- budi
-- 
Budi Rahardjo <Budi_Rahardjo@UManitoba.Ca>
Unix Support - Computer Services - University of Manitoba
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy