HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary L. Newell)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: Re: Sam Adams ->was: TEAMS TO WATCH (Sabres - better watch quickly)
Date: 27 Aug 92 21:55:36 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson

In article <4881@balrog.ctron.com>, mattb@ctron.com (Matt Brown) writes:
> (Stefano Casertano) writes:
> >(Andrew W Korbut) writes:
> >>Hey, Matt, I have to commend you for being a B's fan who isn't looking at the
> >>hockey world through Black-N-Gold glasses. Many amusing, and more importantly,
> >>accurate comments (or is that vice versa?).  I salute you, raising a Sam
> >>Adams lager in tribute...
> >
> >Isn't that the famous Boston beer that's really made in Pittsburgh by the
> >Pittsburgh Brewing Company or some such?
> >Just a question... think about the hockey implications...
> 
> You must be thinking of Iron City, which is actually made in Cleveland from
> Flaming Cuyahoga River runoff, and aged in EPA hazardous waste drums at Three
> Mile Island.  Gives you that Pittsburgh glow. Available as a dark beer also
> (extra micro-metal shavings).

 No - he's thinking of Sam Adams - it was brewed in Pitt. when it was
first released and for some number of years after. It is now brewed
in Boston. I have no idea if they brew from a single brewery or
not but I do know they openned their brewery in Boston a while
back.

> And what possible connection could beer have to hockey?


You are joking right? geeeez....


			gln



Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: wilson@cs.ucf.edu (tom wilson)
Subject: making hockey files available for ftp
Organization: University of Central Florida, Orlando
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 05:36:49 GMT

I'm storing some things at an ftp site. If you have something that is worthy
of being archived for future readers, it would be best to pack it all in with
what a few others and I have put together. Please reply by Friday if you want
to add something.

Tom
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: bimson@nssdca.gsfc.nasa.gov (GREG)
Subject: Re: New Rules (A Sad Day for Hockey)
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA - Goddard Space Flight Center
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 15:53:00 GMT

In article <arbogastw.5.0@vaxb.gbus.virginia.edu>, arbogastw@vaxb.gbus.virginia.edu (Warren Arbogast) writes...
> 
>>Yvon Corriveau races up the ice...
>>switches to another team...
>>swithces back...
>>AND SCORES!!!!
> 
>I could buy all of this...until the last line.  SCORES?  
> 
>Are you really with the Caps fantasy/PR department or did you imagine young 
>Yvon simply walking around Rod Langway for his goal?
> 
>Warren

Nah, I meant to say...
Corriveau dumps the puck in, comes screamin' off the boards, hits the 
defenseman in the skates goes over the goalies head, and scores...

Greg
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
Subject: Eddie Johnston and Pittsburgh
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 14:19:15 GMT

The rumors have been circulating that Eddie Johnston may be the
coach in Pittsburgh because he and Mario get along...

Question:  What about Eddie and Ron Francis, whom he turfed out
of Hartford?

Gerald
From: ferguson@cs.rochester.edu (George Ferguson)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: Re: ESPN-it's about time
Date: 4 Sep 92 14:44:23 GMT
Reply-To: ferguson@cs.rochester.edu (George Ferguson)
Organization: University of Rochester Hockey Science Dept.


In article <arbogastw.8.0@vaxb.gbus.virginia.edu> arbogastw@vaxb.gbus.virginia.edu (Warren Arbogast) writes:
>Not meaning to be obnoxious, *that* national tv contract couldn't pay the 
>bills much less match the financial boon that *this* national tv contract 
>offers.

Like someone (I think Brian) already said, $15M / 24 won't even pay
the salary of the stickboy these days. A financial boon, now that's
what the Mets have with their $50M contract all themselves (am I close
to the facts gld?). Secondary effects are obviously important, but
pretty tough to quantify.

George
-- 
George Ferguson                 ARPA: ferguson@cs.rochester.edu
Dept. of Computer Science       UUCP: rutgers!rochester!ferguson
University of Rochester         VOX:  (716) 275-2527
Rochester  NY  14627-0226       FAX:  (716) 461-2018
From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: Re: The state of the Adams address
Date: 3 Sep 92 20:38:12 GMT
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department

In article <1992Sep3.154222.328@ziff.com> markp@ziff.com writes:
>
>The actual point of this is to show that all the contending and pretending
>teams have made some moves to better themselves in their weakest areas.  The
>Bruins always seem to try and do it the cheap way, swapping players, signing
>aged veterans, ect.  I've always heard that you need 5 world class players
>to win the cup.  Moog, Bourque, Neely, and Oates are just that.  Ruzicka

No...apart from the requirement of a very good goaltender, it pretty 
much doesn't matter whom your five best players are, as long as your
5th through 15th players are better than anyone elses.  Pittsburgh
couldn't even make the playoffs until Patrick improved Pittsburgh's
depth, and Gretzky hasn't won anything since going to LA.

Boston has been getting beat late in the playoffs recently not because
they didn't have a few really good players, but because Pittsburgh's
and Edmonton's 5th through 15th players were head-and-shoulders better
than Boston's 5th through 15th players.

Look over the Stanley Cup winners for the last two decades, Pittsburgh,
Edmonton, the Islanders, Montreal, Philadelphia, and Boston...and look
at who they beat, and look at the depth of talent of the teams.

The best players tend to even each other out...the margin of victory
comes from the mismatch of 2nd and 3rd lines, and 2nd and 3rd pairs
of defensemen.

Gerald
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: farenebt@craft.camp.clarkson.edu (Bri Farenell)
Subject: Re: RANGERS NEWS: Dave Marcinyshyn signed 
Keywords: Other odds & ends....
Organization: Clarkson University
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 02:41:19 GMT

Edward.Starczewski@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Edward Starczewski) writes:

>Davey boy hasn't played in Utica for a year, although I don't know how
>or why you consider Marcinyshyn a goon, he's afraid of his own shadow
>IMHO, and wouldn't check anyone while he was in Utica.

Maybe not a goon. But in 1988, there was a scuffle and as the linesman
was leading Marc. to the box, he cross-checked Red Wing Robbie Nichols
in the back of the neck. Nichols' back was turned and was doing nothing
more than watching the action.

>Although on the subject of Utica goons - it is rumored that Jamie
>Huscroft won't be back this year.

Oh well. Who will the fans in Section Q have to harass when the Devils
come to town now? 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
BRI FARENELL			  |	"Hockey must be a great game to
CLARKSON '95			  |       survive what the NHL has done	
FARENEBT@CRAFT.CAMP.CLARKSON.EDU  | 	 to it."
rec.sport.hockey's AHL contact	  |    ---Howard Baldwin, Penguins owner
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
         CONGRATS TO 1992 CALDER CUP CHAMPION ADIRONDACK RED WINGS!!
                       (also: 1981, 1986, 1989)
From: lli+@cs.cmu.edu (Lori Iannamico)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: Re: NHL Salaries
Date: 4 Sep 92 17:31:46 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

In article <1992Sep4.140945.28585@bnr.ca> lavergne@bcarh2b8.bnr.ca (Marc Lavergne) writes:
>The NHL Players Association released salary information on Wednesday.
>Eric Lindros will be the highest paid player this year at 3.5M. 
>Gretzky is 2nd at about 3M, Messier 3rd at 2.4M and Lemieux 4th
>at 2.3M. 
> 
>This is all expected to change soon. Gretzky, according to his
>contract and McNall, must always be the best paid player. Messier
>must always be at least the 3rd best paid player. With Lemieux's
>impending new contract, Lindros will quickly drop to the 4th best
>paid player in the league. Lemieux is expected to sign for about   
>4M a year. I feel sorry with McNall who has to keep up with this
>pace. Messier can expect at least a 1.2M raise very soon.


I don't feel sorry for McNall.  He seems to be tossing his money around freely
enough between the Kings and the Argonauts.  He's the one that determined 
Gretzky had to be the highest paid player in the NHL, he's the one that 
signed Rocket Ishmael to the incredible contract.  He's the one that wanted
to spend 20 million dollars to get Mark Rypen from the Redskins.  He's the one
that wants to buy all the toys, no one is forcing him to.

If he runs into financial difficulty it's his own damn fault.  I have no 
sympathy for him.

Lori
From: mmb@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Michael Burger)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: NHL-ESPN is Official!!
Date: 3 Sep 92 01:29:18 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523

You can now spend that money you've stashed away for a sattelite dish or
spent eating bad meals at sports bars, the NHL and the ESPN are together
for a five year deal.  Watch SportsCenter tonight for all the details.


*******************************************************************************
*  Mike Burger                    *  I may have had the needle in my arm,     *
*  mmb@lamar.colostate.edu        *  but I never pushed the plunger.          *
*  University of Michigan - 1990  *  --Dave Barry                             *
*******************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: kwh@CS.CMU.EDU (Kevin Hartmann)
Subject: Re: Phil Bourque signs w Rangers
Originator: kwh@GLOBE.EDRC.CMU.EDU
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon University
	<1992Sep1.012507.18679@tamsun.tamu.edu>
	<1992Sep1.021742.6439@news.columbia.edu>
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 14:00:47 GMT



>Getting back to hockey ... what's the compensation that the Rangers
>will have to pay?  (Adam Graves?)
>
>gld
>Gary L. Dare			

None.  He's a free agent w/o compensation.  (was)

Kevin




Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: broger@bnr.ca (Roger Balakrishnan)
Subject: Ottawa arena ...
Reply-To: broger@bnr.ca (Roger Balakrishnan)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 92 14:30:26 GMT


The Ottawa Senators will play the upcoming season
in the Ottawa Civic Centre the announced capacity
for the Civic center is 10200 for the senators.

roger
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: raczka@HQ.Ileaf.COM (Christopher Raczka)
Subject: Re: HATS OFF AND STICKS DOWN
Reply-To: raczka@HQ.Ileaf.COM (Christopher Raczka)
Organization: Interleaf, Inc.
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 17:08:11 GMT

In article <1992Aug26.164153.18497@news.nd.edu> dnewell@goethe.helios.nd.edu (devin newell) writes:
> 
> With the helmets off players will learn to respect the weapon/scoring tool
> in their hands.  A player will willingly learn to keep his stick down
> partly out of respect for his oposition, but mostly because his own scalp is now exposed.  Also players won't be so eager to goon it up when the result
> is a few blows to the melon that aren't stopped by space age plastic.

I disagree

All you have to do is watch hockey from the 30/40/50/60/70's
and you will change your opinion

The NHL is taking the WRONG way out, by taking high sticking
down to the waist and giving players the option to wear helmets

Suspensions and fines are the only cure for the stick swingers
maybe after a few more people are seriously hurt, they'll get it

chris
-- 
    " Govern a great nation as you would cook a small fish
      Do not overdo it. "

     LAO-TZU
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: mds8539@tamuts.tamu.edu (Michael David Slater         )
Subject: Re: DYANSTY-Pens
Organization: ~/lib/organization
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 18:55:57 GMT

In article <4931@balrog.ctron.com> mattb@olympus.ctron.com (Matt Brown) writes:
>
>Gary (hey folks, just think of the blanket coverage you can get this year
>by posting an insult to a "Gary" without mentioning a last name), keep
>reading and posting, but recognize two thiings:
Yes, everyone, Make Way! Make Way!  Our liege has a proclamation from the
mighty citadel of @balldog.
 
>2) r.s.h often seems evenly divided between Pittsburgh fans and everybody
>   else.  Even "objective" Pens reportage gets blasted at. Pens Raves
So why do you succumb as well, if you realize what is happening?

>   draw major flames.  So don't be surprised at the response, and recognize
>   it for what it is: the sour grapes from the rest of us who don't have
Sour grapes from those of you without a Stanley Cup....

>   the honor of living in the Steel City or environs.  All that smoke, and
>   the Stanley Cup, too. I know I couldn't stand that much happiness.
Afraid you've grown near-sighted from Citadel Balldog.  Pittsburgh is an
awesome city, and I know, because I have been to enough others to have
something to compare it to.   The smoke disappeared years ago.

Sorry my Lliege.

>
>Matt
>How's the newspaper strike these days. Who did they pick as town crier?
>"
From: euaaen@eua.ericsson.se (Anders Engwall)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: WC'93 and all those new nations
Summary: Bumper sized pool C in '93, and with some decent teams too
Keywords: WC, Pool C, Ukraine, olympics
Date: 31 Aug 92 09:49:17 GMT
Organization: Ellemtel Telecom Systems Labs, Stockholm, Sweden

As you all know, lots of new nations have become members of the
IIHF since last year. Some of these are actually quite decent
hockey-wise, and it's been a problem about how to fit them into
the world championships. The solution now is this. This year's
pool C will consist of no less than twelve teams (as compared to
six in '92). Seven of these are "old" ones: Yugoslavia, North
Korea, Australia, Hungary, Belgium, South Korea and Spain. The
other five spots will be decided by some sort of qualification
procedure. The general guess is that Ukraine will be one of these
five, and they will race right through the WC hierarchy to pool A
in '95, and possibly even qualify for the '94 olympics.

Personally I guess that the five will be Ukraine, Byelorussia, Latvia,
Slovenia and one of Croatia/Estonia/Lithuania or possibly Kazakstan.
Hopefully, the IIHF will have an extended pool B next year, as clearly
the first four I mentioned are of that calibre.

--
Anders Engwall				Email: Anders.Engwall@eua.ericsson.se
ELLEMTEL Utvecklings AB			Voice: +46 8 727 3893
"Alvsj"o, Sweden			Fax: +46 8 727 42 20
		"Bryna nuppa fj{ssa sp}nken" - Razor
From: rickc@wrigley.corp.sgi.com (Richard Casares)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: Re: ESPN Followup
Date: 3 Sep 92 22:03:23 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.

Yeah.  For those of us who had to endure April baseball on our
regional SportsChannels instead of getting Stanley Cup action,
the ESPN venue is a welcome gift.

Question abou the blackouts, does this mean people in Chicago
get to see the home games?  I recall Wirtz not showing those
games to ANYONE within a nuclear bomb range of Chicago.

-- 
+========================================================================+
| Rick Casares					Silicon Graphics	 |	
| cubfan@wrigley.corp.sgi.com			2011 N. Shoreline Blvd   |
| "Just wait till next year."                 	Mountain View, CA 94039  |
+========================================================================+
From: vgost+@pitt.edu (Viktor Gotz)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: Re: Contract details-Bourque/Rangers
Date: 2 Sep 92 19:35:45 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <1992Sep1.161418.1573@cbfsb.cb.att.com> rolo@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (roger.lowsky) writes:
>Well, I think this is a case of bad information.
>A NY paper reported Phil's contract with the Rangers to be
>$1.8M for 4 years.  That's only $450K a season, but alot more than
>the $160K that the Penguins Organization paid him last year.

I just talked to my league team mate who works for the Penguins.
He also told me Borque signed for about $1 million a year.

On a side note, he mentioned that Barrasso's contract is for 5 years,
and that the Pens already have Pietrangelo back and are trying to trade
him.

Vik


Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: gerry@skatter.usask.ca
Subject: Re: Fickle Edmonton Fans
Organization: University of Saskatchewan
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 11:26:54 GMT

From article <14725@mindlink.bc.ca>, by John_Carson@mindlink.bc.ca (John Carson):
> I would hesitate to buy season tickets early in the summer when PETER PUCK and
> Glen Sather have unhappy players. Every year since they traded Gretzky someone
> on the team is unhappy and it blows the image of the club. Part of a winning
> team is having the skills to win the other half is the chemistry to work
> together as a TEAM. I still have my concerns about KLIMA and NICHOLLS but PETER
> PUCK has never been a GOOD owner in my opinion. I just hope he sells the team
> while he is young and doesn't turn out to be a senile HAROLD BALLAND the
> second.
> 

Well my feelings on Peter Pocklington are ambivalent since he doesn't live
in my town. However, he's a good enough owner to have gotten an NHL team to
begin with. Furthermore that team now has a winning tradition. BTW keeping
players happy is not Pocklington's job that is Sather's job and for the most
part he seems to have done that. Furthermore it's not like the Oilers have
been really bad since the Gretzky trade. Even beyond this, just screw the
chemistry part. I could care less if my team was all a bunch of saints or
a bunch of devils(well I guess it may matter if your from NJ) as long as
they continue to win it doesn't much matter. Since the Oilers have been 
winning consistantly even without Gretzky/Messier et. al. Edmontonians
shouldn't be dumping on their team.

Look if the Oilers had become one of the worst teams in the league after
being one of the best, then this attitude I might understand. This hasn't
happened though, no where near it, thus Edmontonians should have nothing
to really complain about.

> John
> --
> ***********************************************************************
> * D.John Carson    J & H Concepts   (604)589-5118                     *
> *                                   Surrey, BC                        *
> *                                   John_Carson@mindlink.bc.ca        *
> ***********************************************************************
--
Gerald Gryschuk            Saskatoon,Saskatchewan = a place with 9 months
gerry@sask.usask.ca           of hockey and 3 months of poor skating.
Go Habs!!!
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: chrisq@wpi.WPI.EDU (Chris Quaranta)
Subject: New Jersey/Buffalo Trade Rumors
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 11:46:43 GMT

-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Chris_Quaranta@vos.stratus.com           chrisq@wpi.wpi.edu             
Stratus Computer, Inc.            O      Worcester Polytechnic Institute
2 Cabot Road                      R      100 Institute Road
From: willis@oracle.SCG.HAC.COM (Stan Willis)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: Re: Baldwin in Hartford (Was: Re: Bowman says no)
Date: 28 Aug 92 18:37:03 GMT
Reply-To: willis@empire.dnet.hac.com (Stan Willis)
Organization: none

In article <Yeaz1Vy00WBLE6q4d6@andrew.cmu.edu> pp21+@andrew.cmu.edu (Paul Andrew Platosh) writes:
>P.S. What do you guys think of the new Whalers uniform - kinda catchy, no?

I saw the new jersey at the draft and was very impressed!  Now if they can
just play as good as they will look.

Stan Wilis
net contact: L.A. Kings

Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: rwanner@bcarh415.bnr.ca (Rick Wanner)
Subject: Re: NHL Salaries 
Reply-To: rwanner@bnr.ca
Organization: Bell Northern Research, Ottawa, Canada
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 18:41:08 GMT

In article <1992Sep4.140945.28585@bnr.ca> lavergne@bcarh2b8.bnr.ca (Marc Lavergne) writes:
>Messier
>must always be at least the 3rd best paid player. 

According to TSN Sportsdesk Messier's contract has a clause in it which sets his salary as 
the average of the top 3 salaries in the league.


Richard Wanner    rwanner@BNR.CA     
(613)763-4159     BNR is not responsible for any opinions I have.
   "To you I'm an atheist; to God, I'm the Loyal Opposition." - Woody Allen
From: dnewell@goethe.helios.nd.edu (devin newell)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: HATS OFF AND STICKS DOWN
Date: 26 Aug 92 16:41:53 GMT
Reply-To: dnewell@goethe.helios.nd.edu (devin newell)
Organization: Univ. of Notre Dame


Hats off the the NHL for it's revised helmet rule.  I think that this will go
a long way in improving the quality of play in the league. -- How can one rule
change make such a difference?--  Simple - when the helmets come off the sticks
go down and the emphasis changes from 'stickwork' meaning a type of crude facial
surgery to a method of scoring.

With the helmets off players will learn to respect the weapon/scoring tool
in their hands.  A player will willingly learn to keep his stick down
partly out of respect for his oposition, but mostly because his own scalp is now exposed.  Also players won't be so eager to goon it up when the result
is a few blows to the melon that aren't stopped by space age plastic.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: farenebt@craft.camp.clarkson.edu (Bri Farenell)
Subject: Re: Hockey demographics in Canada
Organization: Clarkson University
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 18:49:58 GMT

daryll@daryllf.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Daryll France) writes:

>I wouldn't be so quick to blame Phil Esposito personally.  Ottawa has also 
>invited her to camp as well.
>Both of the expansion teams will try anything at this point for exposure.

Espo probably ranks up there with Don Cherry in the political correctness
dept. Considering the quality of goaltending that was available, maybe they
might actually sign Rheaume. Although, I think she'd need at least one or two
full years in the major juniors first.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
BRI FARENELL			    "Hockey must be a great game to survive 
CLARKSON '95			           what the NHL has done to it."
FARENEBT@CRAFT.CAMP.CLARKSON.EDU	---Howard Baldwin, Penguins owner

rec.sport.hockey's AHL contact
				 
GO ADIRONDACK RED WINGS! 	1992 CALDER CUP CHAMPIONS		
				Calder Cup Champs: 1981 1986 1989 1992

Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: mds8539@tamuts.tamu.edu (Michael David Slater         )
Subject: Re: Phil Bourque signs w Rangers
Organization: ~/lib/organization
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 01:25:07 GMT

In article <gecfHGe00Uh7I864Q7@andrew.cmu.edu> gp2f+@andrew.cmu.edu (Gary James Patalsky) writes:
>Pittsburgh free agent left center signed a contract with the New York
>Rangers.  

That's a damn loss.  Who's gonna chit chat on the 'DVE morning show now?
Course... I don't pick them up real well, being here in Texas...

Who else is expected to flee?


Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: slegge@kean.ucs.mun.ca
Subject: Damphouse wants out of EDM!
Organization: Memorial University. St.John's Nfld, Canada
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 01:10:03 GMT

Vince Damphouse wants *OUT* of Edmonton, according to what I read in 
the paper today.
 
The article said that Damphouse is a total free agent and can go 
where-ever he wants.  It seems 5 teams are interested in him.  I know 
that Montreal was trying to sign him, but what are the other teams?
 
Please say TORONTO!
 
Stephen Legge
<SLEGGE@kean.ucs.mun.ca>
From: wilson@cs.ucf.edu (tom wilson)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: Re: Die! NASTY-Pens
Date: 1 Sep 92 22:37:44 GMT
Organization: University of Central Florida, Orlando

Gary James Patalsky <gp2f+@andrew.cmu.edu> wrote:
>If you question the greatness of the Pens, look at their depth chart

I question both their greatness and your arrogance. I'll admit Pittsburgh is
great when they finish on top of the regular season overall standings, until
then, categorize me as "doubter". Many of the other past "great" teams have
done that.

Tom