HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: carasso@Turing.ORG (Roger Carasso)
Subject: Re: What is H a m a s ??
Organization: The Turing Project, Public Access Internet Host
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 03:53:07 GMT

cl056@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Hamaza H. Salah) writes:
>
>Islam doesn't tell you to be a chicken.  It tells to go and fight.

Hammie, I think you are doing a great disservice to Islam, and all
religions.  No religious code is simple.  Answers are rarely just
found by one perfect quotes.  You are doing a disservice by not
showing the analytical work needed to understand to true intent and
complexity to the Qu'uran, or the Torah.  You simple quote some simple
quote, or demand that others have a snappy one line quote that refutes
your argument.

For example, I am sure that somewhere in the Qu'uran it does say "go
and fight" (evil), but I'm also sure that it probably talks about
kindness, compassion, charity, sanctity of life.  This being the case,
a True Islamic view cannot merely be to fight and attack Israel, or
whomever you thing are your enemy.  It must be compreshensive,
grander, and doing full justice to world.  Fight specific injustice,
understand others point of view, be compassionate when they are put in
tough situations, be charitable in allowing others to live happily
even at the loss of some of your prosperity, value all human life
created by God.  The world is not black and white and neither is
Law, secular or religious.

>Anyways, where in islam it tells you kidnapping your enemy and killing him
>is wrong?  Quote it for me.  I am ready to quote you the one that allows you
>to do so.  Are you?

"Kidnapping your enemy and killing him is an abomination.  You should
kidnap him, explain to him how he is causing you pain, let him see
your family, let him go, knowing that you may have educated one more
person."
		--Qu'uaran


carasso
Xref: sparky soc.culture.arabic:5939 soc.culture.turkish:13605
From: minhaszt@ucbeh.san.uc.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic,soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: <None>
Date: 1 Jan 93 03:15:52 EST
Distribution: world
Organization: Univ. of Cincinnati

salam alaikum everyone

i hope everyone remembers the life and struggle of maulana abdullah azzam. he
is the counterpoint of muhammad ali johar. abdullah azzam was born in palestine
and went to afghanistan to participate in the jihad fi sabi lillah. he taught
illiterate children how to read the quran and was a source of inspiration and
valour to the people he met, he started a magazine out of peshawar called 
al-jihad which gave news to the arabic speaking world about how the jihad was
going in afghanistan. unfortunately he was killed by KHAD and soviet forces.
he died this week i believe four years ago. (could be completely off though).

muhammad ali johar was an indian muslim who struggled against the british
occupation and fought for the cause of allah all of his life. he wanted to see
justice and fairness be the rule however he could not do so in the
subcontinent. he wanted to spend his old age in a land where muslims ruled with
fairness. his grave is in al-quds. let us not forget these two men in our
history.

salam alaikum wa rahmatullah
From: astein@nysernet.org (Alan Stein)
Subject: Re: News from the occupied West Bank and Gaza Strip.
Organization: NYSERNet, Inc.
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 19:05:57 GMT

afm@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Santa Claus...) writes:

>I have just learned that 9 Palestinians were killed by the Israeli army in 
>clashes in the West Bank and Gaza Strip over the expulsion of the 400 
>Palestinians. One of the victims is a 7-year old girl.
>This news is not confirmed as yet. If anyone has heard anything like that, 
>please post.

I have not heard this yet, although it's not inconceivable given the
violence of the intifada.

The question that comes to my mind, assuming it's true, is where were
the parents of this child?  How did they let her get involved in
violent clashes with army troops?  Don't they care about her welfare?

If something like that happened here in America, the parents would
probably get arrested for child abuse or some similar offense.
-- 
Alan H. Stein   -----  AJIN   -----  astein@israel.nysernet.org
From: ahmad@ra.cs.umb.edu (Ahmad Hashem)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Re: Hamas and Anti-Semitism
Date: 23 Dec 92 16:08:43 GMT
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Boston

In article <1ha0qjINNrud@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> cl056@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Hamaza H. Salah) writes:
>
>I would like you to tell me what these good prinicples of Islam
>that Hamas has strayed from are.

To say the very least, Islam does not condone attacking civilians, and this
is something Hamas did.  (Reminder: Review Abu Bakr's famous commandments
to his army.)

>Maybe Jews know Islam better than Hamas.

Meaningless remark.  Some Jews definitely do.

Best Ahmad
From: ilyess@ECE.Concordia.CA (Ilyess Bdira)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic,talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Quote of the year ( Dec 14th Sh. Ahmad Yaseen..
Date: 23 Dec 92 16:14:15 GMT
Organization: ECE - Concordia University

This has to be the quote of the year, 
For a man who is paralized, sick and possibly blind, he sure did not lose his
biggest two assets: His intelligence and poise.
 
 Q: In principles, what do you think of killing this policeman?
 A: Killing a pliceman and killing a Palestinian and killing a
    slodier is an episode that resulted from a situation that is
    occupation.  So if the causes are removed, the problems
    disappear.
 
 Q: How about the peace process and Washington negotiations?
 A: There is no Palestinian who refuses peace.  Every Palestinian
    wants peace, but the peace you want is different than the peace
    I want.  Everyone has its own way to persue peace.
 
 Q: What do think about the on-going negotiations today?
 A: Up till now, it did not accomplish anything.  And initially,
    I expected it will not accomplish anything due to the lack
    of balance.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic,talk.bizarre
From: srscnslt@telesciences.com (SRS Consultant)
Subject: Re: ARABI UNITE = HATING ISRAEL
Organization: TeleSciences CO Systems, Inc.
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 17:53:54 GMT

In article <1ho60tINN9pi@life.ai.mit.edu> gwydion@gnu.ai.mit.edu (Mercenary Programmer) writes:
>In article <1992Dec28.174333.24364@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> carasso@Turing.ORG (Roger Carasso) writes:
>>
>>"The liquidation of Israel is one of the means we adopt to achieve
>>unity and freedom in the Arab world.  We know that liberation is a
>>long-term goal, but I am about to determine that, at the end of this
>>year, a pemocratic PAlestinian state will be established."
>
>What's a pemocratic PAlestinian state?


	That's a form of government modelled after a certain Native American
	tribe from the state of Pennsylvania.

-- 
Mitch Gorman		srscnslt@telesciences.com	emrys@cellar.org
"You can tell he's doing well by the look in inhuman eyes,
	Better not compromise -
		It won't be easy!"
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
From: astein@nysernet.org (Alan Stein)
Subject: Re: Killing settlers
Organization: NYSERNet, Inc.
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 22:06:24 GMT

ilyess@ECE.Concordia.CA (Ilyess Bdira) writes:

>In article <42946@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> revans@euclid.ucsd.edu (Ron Evans) writes:
>>	This is false.  The Hamas Covenant specifically refers to
>>	"Jews".
>I know, but it should not be interpreted the way it was.. Hamas is
>good at harming its own image, I can tell you this much.

Not half as good as it is at killing innocent people.
-- 
Alan H. Stein                     astein@israel.nysernet.org
Xref: sparky soc.culture.arabic:6082 talk.bizarre:43178
From: cl056@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Hamaza H. Salah)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic,talk.bizarre
Subject: Re: What is HAMAS
Date: 30 Dec 1992 23:06:02 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: cl056@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Hamaza H. Salah)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, carasso@Turing.ORG (Roger Carasso) says:

>
>cl056@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Hamaza Hitler Salah) writes:
>)A.Qadir@massey.ac.nz (A. Qadir) says:
>))[...deleted...]
>))Sincerely
>))Altaf Qadir
>))
>)Well Said brother Altaf....
>
>
>I have not joke here, I just like saying "Well Said brother Altaf."
>
>carasso
>.
>

Shut up you son of pigs and monkeys...
Can't you find some article to reply to it?

-- 
                  ___________________ cl056@cleveland.Freenet.Edu _____________
                 (______   _  |   _  |_
_____ H A M Z A ________) |-| |_ |-| | |
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Re: What is HAMAS
From: A.Qadir@massey.ac.nz (A. Qadir)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 92 00:34:06 GMT
Organization: Massey University, Palmerston North, New Zealand
X-Reader: NETNEWS/PC Version 2c


>From: kal@mars (ali baba)
>you are either a stupid or acting like one. Most likely you are a jew who is
>trying to make problems with this kind of question.

>by the way stupid this is a muslim movement that isreal will not be able to 
>control.

>cheers,

Dear Ali
Assalamu alaikum,
Believe me or not I was totally unawear about HAMAS untill recently as some one
send me information about it, so I came to know. I am from Pakistan and 
Alhamdulillah
MUSLIM. Yes, being a Muslim I consider myself a bad Muslim. If we were not
stupid definately these dirty Jews would not have upper hand on us. More 
importantly, we would not have these stupid muslim and arab leaders, which is
major cause of our down fall. Look at bastared Fahad, stupid Al-Sabah etc etc.
We need to hold Islamic principals firmly, we should pray five times a day
and abide by all the Islamic principals and should not follows enemies of
Allah and his prophet s.a.w.

Sincerely
Altaf Qadir

Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
From: cl056@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Hamaza H. Salah)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Re: Hamas
Date: 26 Dec 1992 17:30:38 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: cl056@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Hamaza H. Salah)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Ron Evans writes:

><1hcrepINNkrp@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> cl056@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Hamaza H. Salah) writes:

>>Don't play smart by asking individual evidences!  Be general in your
>>perspective.  As said in Arabic,"The one who lives with a group of people 40
>>days, become part of them."  What applies to the border guard who kills
>>kids, apply to any other border guard.
>
>	Then what applies to one Hamas member applies to all?
>	I didn't support Israel's deportations before, but
>	perhaps I should reconsider?

 Did the Israeli court have any evidence that these people
 are Hamases?  How is it possible to convict 418 people in less than
 an hour of being members of Hamas?
 
>Ron Evans (revans@math.ucsd.edu)
-- 
                  ___________________ cl056@cleveland.Freenet.Edu _____________
                 (______   _  |   _  |_
_____ H A M Z A ________) |-| |_ |-| | |
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
From: astein@nysernet.org (Alan Stein)
Subject: Re: PLO COVERUP
Organization: NYSERNet, Inc.
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 20:04:31 GMT

Christopher Khoury <34I2NYW@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU> writes:

>>"The PLO will NOT become a political organization but will continue to
>>be above all an organization for armed struggle.  The PLO will not
>>cease its attacks on Israel in favor of a diplomatic initiative."
>>
>OH COMON Mr. Carasso. Look at the date on this thing. Don't you think
>a few things have changed over the past... *13* years??
>For your info, the PLO has already said long ago that they support the
>peace talks. Where have you been?

How about "Neither military attacks nor the heroic Intifada will
cease."-- Arafat's deputy, Saleh Khalef, 1988?

And how about the PLO's national covenant, which states that "Armed
struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine," and which the PLO has
refused to change?
-- 
Alan H. Stein                     astein@israel.nysernet.org
From: mot@acsu.buffalo.edu (Mustafa O. Tanrikulu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Re: The vanquished always want to imitate the victor (Ibn Khaldun)
Date: 24 Dec 92 15:51:15 GMT
Organization: UB
Originator: mot@ozan4.eng.buffalo.edu


In article <Dec.22.15.11.44.1992.10738@pilot.njin.net>, hubey@pilot.njin.net (Hubey) writes:
> ......... previous parts are deletedd.....
>
>Explain to us why all the conservative-religious folk in Turkey
>insist on using Arabic words constantly, and explain to us
>why this is not cultural imperialism and using Latin-based
>words in Turkish is cultural imperialism. Explain to us why
>Turks using Turkish words instead of Arabic words are just being
>funny trying to make up new words.
>
>And why is it that Arabic names such as Slave-of-Allah (Abdullah)
>is Ok for a Turk but not Allah-in-Kulu is a strange name noone
                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>would use ?


Hey, my last name is "Tanrikulu" which means slave-of-god. 8-)... 
In its complete form it sould be tanri-nin-kulu. However, "nin" which gives 
the meaning "owning" is dropped as is a very common case in Turkish. Some
people will say that Tanri and Allah are not one and the same things. In this
case, your question still remains unanswered by me.

>
>Explain why a Turk could repeat ; "God please treat us like
>the great descendants of Abraham" without feeling degraded (after
>all you can't pick your ancestors), but "Ne mutlu Turkum diyene" is
>a degradation for Kurds ???
>
>Explain how all these things are not cultural imperialism.
>
>Explain to us why all the people had messengers sent to them but
>the only ones were apparently Semites (Babylonians, Arameans, Judeans,
>Arabs)--no Turks, no Russians, no Frenchmen.
>
>I can go on for a long time but I'll stop here.
>-- 
>
>	mark	
>
>   hubey@amiga.montclair.edu         hubey@apollo.montclair.edu
>   hubey@pilot.njin.net               ...!rutgers!pilot!hubey    

I totally aggree with the rest of the article. Let's not forget that
during the Ottoman era, it became an insult to call someone "Turk" which
was, I believe, the last step of cultural imperialism. 

M. Okan Tanrikulu

ps: The only time I regret my last name is during alphabetical orderings.
    I always have to wait until the very end to be called. Last week,
    I had to make a presentation on Saturday and I waited for about 6 hours
    to make my presentation. It was a real pain. 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic,soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.turkish,soc.culture.asfghanistan,soc.culture.iranian
From: carasso@Turing.ORG (Roger Carasso)
Subject: ARABI UNITE = HATING ISRAEL
Organization: The Turing Project, Public Access Internet Host
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 17:43:33 GMT


"The liquidation of Israel is one of the means we adopt to achieve
unity and freedom in the Arab world.  We know that liberation is a
long-term goal, but I am about to determine that, at the end of this
year, a pemocratic PAlestinian state will be established."
	
	Hani al-Hassan, Political Advisor to Yasir Arafat
	Speech at the American University, Beirut
	An-Nahar, Beirut, Jan. 9, 1982
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Re: hypocrisy of zionism (was Re: 7642)
Supersedes: <93001.134957F66204@BARILVM.BITNET>
Organization: Bar-Ilan University Computing Center, Israel
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 14:38:06 IST
From: Shaul Wallach <F66204@BARILVM.BITNET>

In article <1993Jan1.024712.2335@ucbeh.san.uc.edu>, minhaszt@ucbeh.san.uc.edu
(Zafar Minhas) writes:

> ...
>
>which brings me back to my original point. the religious definition of a jew
>is
>one who believes in the religion and practices mosaic law. if that is the
>case,
>then you can not even say that half the people in israel can be allowed
>citizenship. if you want to go with the zionist definition, one who is of
>jewish ancestry (no precondition of being that on either the mother's side or
>father's side) then you must include the palestinians both inside israel, and
>in the occupied lands as israeli citizens becaus there is not question that
>they are of jewish ancestry, and i state again that they, whether they are
>muslims or christians are more pure jews than the european invaders.

     There is a certain amount of truth in what Zafar says here. It is
true that some Palestinians are of Jewish ancestry, in addition to the
few thousand children of Jewish women married today to Arabs in Israel.
There are also whole clans who were originally Jewish. Recently the
Israeli religious weekly "Mishpaha" carried a story giving historical
evidence of Jewish communities, mainly in the Galilee, which survived
up through the Crusader period and finally converted to Islam under
economic pressure during the Ottoman period. There is also a clan in
the village of Yatta near Hebron which traces its ancestry to the
Jews of Khaibar who fought against Muhammad and eventually left
Arabia for Palestine. They apparently stayed Jewish until about
200 years ago, and even until the Arab Revolt in 1936 their women
preserved the custom of lighting candles on the Shabbat eve and
during Hanukka. One of the members of this clan was executed
in 1948 in Gaza as an "Israeli spy" and the suspicion was based
solely on his Jewish ancestry. See the book "The Exiled and the
Redeemed" by Yitzhak Ben Zvi for more fascinating details about
these former Jews.

     However, the rest of what Zafar says here is untenable in
my opinion. Most of the Muslim population of Palestine was
descended from the Arab invaders who colonized the country
after the Arab conquest, according to George Antonius in his
"The Arab Awakening", pp. 16-17. As I have posted elsewhere,
he cites a French scholar who holds that about two thirds of
the population is of Arab stock. It follows that even according
to the Zionist definition the vast majority of Palestinians
cannot be considered Jews. According to the religious definition
they would not be considered Jews unless they converted to
Judaism, since the traces of their Jewish ancestry have been
lost and they no longer observe any Jewish practices.

>zafar

Shalom,

Shaul Wallach
From: ahmad@ra.cs.umb.edu (Ahmad Hashem)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Re: PEACE LOVING RABIN
Date: 31 Dec 92 23:49:12 GMT
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Boston

In article <4799@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa) writes:
>
>	"The first priority is to use force, might, beatings."
>		Israeli Defense Minister Yitzhak Rabin
>		(New York Times, Jan. 23, 1988)

You are probably aware also of Rabin's record as an advocate for peace.
Check his own autobiography.  Here is what he has to say about the cruelty
with which Palestinians were kicked out of Ramle and Lod:

"Great suffering was inflicted upon the men [Jewish soldiers] taking part in
the eviction action.  Soldiers of the Yiftach Brigade included youth movement
graduates, who had been inculcated with values such as international
fraternity and humaneness.  The eviction action went beyond the concepts they
were used to.  There were some fellows who refused to take part in the
expulsion action. Prolonged propaganda activities were required after the
action to remove the bitterness of these youth movement groups, and explain
why we were obliged to undertake such a harsh and cruel action."

Best Ahmad
From: ahmad@ra.cs.umb.edu (Ahmad Hashem)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Looking for a book called FALSAFATUNA
Date: 4 Jan 93 04:20:53 GMT
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Boston

Folks,

I'm looking for a book in Arabic by Imam BaQir as-Sadr called FALSAFATUNA
(Our Philosophy).  Anyone knows if/where it can be purchased in the US?

Thanks!
Ahmad
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic,talk.politics.mideast
From: chrism@cirrus.com (Chris Metcalfe)
Subject: Mazen and the Nazis, as Always
Organization: Cirrus Logic Inc.
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 19:13:12 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.163909.17873@cbfsb.cb.att.com> mmdh@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (Mazen Mokhtar) writes:
>In article <1992Dec17.020237.12364@nysernet.org> astein@nysernet.org (Alan Stein) writes:
>>The PLO claims to represent the Palestinian Arabs.  In that case, how
>>can it stand silently by while Palestinian Arabs are perpetuating
>>murderous acts against innocent people, the cold-blooded murder of Mr.
>>Toledano being only the latest?
>
>  Mr. Toledano was a soldier. The act is not murderous, it is justified. When
>is the last time France condemned the "cold blooded muder" of Nazi soldiers
>during World War II? Should they?
>
>
>Mazen Mokhtar

Whatever your position is on the Arab/Israeli conflict, Mazen, you really
should try to outgrow this tired tactic of equating the Jews and the Nazis.

Was France also justified in hunting Haj Amin al-Husseini as a Nazi war
criminal?  The very founder of the Palestinian Nationalist movement?

By not reasoning these things through, you leave yourself exposed.

So let's get back to who did what, and who was justified, who's history is
more legitimately tied to the land, etc, etc,  and leave the Nazis in the 
cold ground where they belong.

-- Chris Metcalfe
From: abde@troi.cc.rochester.edu (Tamer A. Abdelgawad)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Re: What is HAMAS
Summary: tsk tsk!
Date: 31 Dec 92 02:06:44 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester (Rochester, NY)

In article <1hsejcINNf3k@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> cl056@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Hamaza H. Salah) writes:
>
>In a previous article, abde@troi.cc.rochester.edu (Tamer A. Abdelgawad) says:
>
>>
>>It is nice to know the Muslim Bretheren support the killing of an unarmed
>>hostage without convicting him of any particular crime, *and* claim it is
>>Islamic!
>
>Stop your lies about Islam and muslims.  I would like you to give me
>where in a Quran it says what Hamas is doing is wrong.
>

What Hamas did was wrong because the killing of an unarmed P.O.W. 
*without* a conviction for a specific crime is murder.  Islam does not
sanction murder.

>You're either one of these two , a jew or a christian who hates Islam and
>muslims -or- some idiot who just doesn't know what he is talking about.
>
>If these two don't fit your description, prove otherwise.  
>

Let's see:  I am neither a jew nor a christian, which leaves the "idiot".
Let me remind you Hamaza of the time I personally insulted you by calling
you a "presumptuous idiot".  I apologized *twice*, and accepted whatever
names you called me as fair retaliation.  Can I expect the same from you?
I'll even make it easier by not insulting you in return :-).

>I would like you once to respond to a jew post, or is it really these
>muslims who you are after. huh?
>

An extreme jewish posting irritates me much less than a posting which
I preceive as a misrepresentation of Islam and moslims.  I say what I
say in good faith, and I'm always open to conflicting opinions.
 
>>P.S.  Happy holidays everyone :-)
>
>Muslims don't have holdiays at this time of the year.
>However, it is ok if you're christian to say it for non-muslims.  
>

I think I read in one of your posts that you are done with classes
for this semester, ergo, contrary to what you say, moslims *do* have
holidays at this time of the year :-).  Happy holidays.

Tamer Abdelgawad

P.S.  Along with 'holiday', look up the phrase 'ad hominem' in a
      dictionary