HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hansm@cs.kun.nl (Hans Mulder)
Newsgroups: comp.editors
Subject: Re: VI Macros, Or What Is Really Going On Here?
Date: 5 Jan 93 11:19:22 GMT
Organization: University of Nijmegen, The Netherlands

In <1992Dec30.182744.9053@telesciences.com> ciacovel@telesciences.com (Chris D Iacovelli) writes:

>Dear VI users,

>I have one macro which centers text lines,
> i.e.
>map [c :s/^[ ^I]*//^M$maKV{{\q
>          ||       ||
>          ||       A ^V'ed ^M
>          ||
>          Not a ^V'ed ESC

>I have another macro to stop formatting comments a la c-style,
>i.e.
>map! */ ^[:so ~/.CCOM.OFF^["ap$s/ ^[A
>        ||               ||       ||
>        ==============|=============
>                ^V'ed ESC's

>The above macros work fine if they are in seperate .exrc files.
>However, when they are incorporated into the same .exrc file they don't
>work,
> i.e. when I execute the [c macro the */ macro is called and I get an
>      ":input read error".

>I believe that the */ of the search string in the [c macro is being
>replaced with the contents of the */ map.

>Does this mean that during command mode that VI actually is in single
>line insert mode, insert into a command line buffer? or am I doing
>something wrong in my macro defines?

Yes, that's what happens.

There are at least four things you can do about it:

1. Insert enough control-Vs:

map [c :s/^[ ^I]^V^V*//^M$maKV{{\q
          ||    ||||   ||
          ||    ||||   A ^V'ed ^M
          ||    ||||
          ||    Type 4 control-Vs, to get two in the .exrc, to get one
          ||    in the rhs of the map, to get the * properly quoted.
          ||
          Not a ^V'ed ESC

2. Leave the trailing /s off the :s command:

map [c :s/^[ ^I]*^M$maKV{{\q
          ||     ||
          ||     A ^V'ed ^M
          ||
          Not a ^V'ed ESC

3. Use another separator, e.g.+:

map [c :s+^[ ^I]*++^M$maKV{{\q
          ||        ||
          ||        A ^V'ed ^M
          ||
          Not a ^V'ed ESC

4. Use vi mode commands:

map [c >>d0$maKV{{\q

--
Hope this helps,

Hans Mulder			hansm@cs.kun.nl
Newsgroups: comp.editors,alt.religion.computers,alt.religion.emacs
From: shibuya@bl.applicon.slb.com (Hiroto Shibuya)
Subject: scroll up/down
Reply-To: shibuya@bl.applicon.slb.com
Organization: Applicon; Billerica, MA (USA)
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 00:58:20 GMT

I just came across a fundamental difference between Emacs and VI,
which I never noticed for a decade.  

THEY SCROLL UP/DOWN IN DIFFERENT DIRECTION!

Emacs command "scroll-up" scroll the text up so you see the text
further down.  VI command ^U, is described in the manual as "scroll
up", which scroll the text down so you see the text further up.

What bothers me is that my dear Emacs acted the different way I
thought it would.  I always thought scrolling down is going toward the
end of document.  I never bothered to lookup which command was doing
which. (well, who does M-x scroll-down/up to scroll?)  This is a big
blow in my religous belief.

Anyway, I'm curious how the other text editors define the direction
"SCROLL UP/DOWN".  Could you mail me how other text editor behave?
I'm only concerned about SCROLL UP/DOWN.  I think something like
NEXT/PREV PAGE, SCROLL FORWARD/BACKWARD, MOVE FORWARD/BACKWARD are (I
think) without controversy.  Maybe something like MOVE UP/DOWN is
equally unbiguous, but let's just stick to scroll.  It can be literal
command "scroll up/down" you can type in, as you can in Emacs, or
description of key binding in manual/online help.

If it turns out that VI is the only one goes the opposite direction,
then it will help me regain my religious faith, and shake off my vi
loving neighbor who is bothering me on this.  
--
					Hiroto Shibuya
			
					Applicon Inc.
					Billerica, MA
					U.S.A.
From: valery@ra.cs.umb.edu (Valery C)
Newsgroups: comp.editors
Subject: test
Date: 5 Jan 93 18:31:06 GMT
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Boston, Dept of Math and CS

Sorry, just a test
Newsgroups: comp.editors
From: davis@pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu ("John E. Davis")
Subject: Re: What is JED, FAQ doesn't mention it
Reply-To: davis@pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu  (John E. Davis)
Organization: "Dept. of Physics, The Ohio State University"
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 15:32:01 GMT

In article <C0DFMK.3Aw@ve7frg.ampr.org> george@ve7frg.ampr.org (George Farris)
writes: 

   I can't seem to find any information on JED or where an archive site is
   for it.  I have tried archie and the comp.editors FAQ doesn't mention
   it, can anyone please help me?  If you haven't heard of it, it's the
   editor that is now used for Linux.  They apparently replaced JOE with
   JED????

   What I'm really looking for is a GOOD small version of emacs for unix. 
   I have tried Microemacs 3.11 but it seems to have a few funny quirks
   under unix, although it's not bad.


JED is an Emacs inspired extensible editor which runs under VMS, UNIX, and
MSDOS.  The latest version is 0.70 though 0.80 will be out soon.  It has an
EDT mode which I have been told is excellent.  Version 0.70 is available from
amy.tch.harvard.edu in the pub/jed directory.  SunOS, Ultrix, and VMS
executables are in the directory as well.  A binary for MSDOS is included in
the jed070.zip.  If you pick up the executables, you will still need to get
one of the standard distributions.
  
If you want a good small version of emacs for unix, then take a look at JED.
I wrote it because of this reason and of the quirks of MicroEmacs, e.g.,
unable to rebind the ^U key.
--
     _____________
#___/John E. Davis\_________________________________________________________
#
# internet: davis@amy.tch.harvard.edu
#   bitnet: davis@ohstpy
#   office: 617-735-6746
#
Newsgroups: comp.editors
From: rahardj@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Budi Rahardjo)
Subject: Re: Borland dropping Brief
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 15:14:54 GMT

In <dx3.43.726499540@ornl.gov> dx3@ornl.gov (C. H. Decker) writes:

...
>Like many of you, I have a personal and professional interest in both Brief 
>and ObjectVision. Any clarification of this article or updates to it would 
>be appreciated.

I couldn't clarify the news. But re: Brief, don't worry.
I heard that "crisp" is a nice Brief clone. Actually it might be
better than Brief. 


-- budi
-- 
Budi Rahardjo <Budi_Rahardjo@UManitoba.Ca>
Unix Support - Computer Services - University of Manitoba
Xref: sparky comp.editors:3186 alt.religion.computers:943 alt.religion.emacs:511
From: pcg@aber.ac.uk (Piercarlo Grandi)
Newsgroups: comp.editors,alt.religion.computers,alt.religion.emacs
Subject: Re: scroll up/down
Date: 10 Jan 93 19:23:05 GMT
Reply-To: pcg@aber.ac.uk (Piercarlo Grandi)
Organization: Prifysgol Cymru, Aberystwyth

On 8 Jan 93 00:58:20 GMT, shibuya@bl.applicon.slb.com (Hiroto Shibuya) said:

shibuya> I just came across a fundamental difference between Emacs and
shibuya> VI, which I never noticed for a decade.

shibuya> THEY SCROLL UP/DOWN IN DIFFERENT DIRECTION!

This is not quite a correct statement. There is no difference.

shibuya> Emacs command "scroll-up" scroll the text up so you see the
					  ^^^^^^^^
shibuya> text further down.  VI command ^U, is described in the manual
shibuya> as "scroll up", which scroll the text down so you see the text
				      ^^^^^^^^
shibuya> further up.

What happens really, and none of the people in the followups I have read
has pointed this out, is that Emacs scrolls the *text*, and vi scrolls
the *screen* (window).

The visual effect is on the intersection of the two (the current page);
if you move the window up, holding the text still, you see the preceding
page, and if you move the text up, holding the window still, you see the
following page.

References:

In emacs if you "(describe-function 'scroll-up)", you get:

	scroll-up:
	Scroll text of current window upward ARG lines; [ ... ]
	       ^^^^

If you "man vi"  you get:

          <CTRL/U>     Pages up half screen.
--
Piercarlo Grandi, Dept of CS, PC/UW@Aberystwyth <pcg@aber.ac.uk>
  E l'italiano cantava, cantava. E le sue disperate invocazioni giunsero
  alle orecchie del suo divino protettore, il dio della barzelletta
Newsgroups: comp.editors
From: lamastus@sundew.dab.ge.com (Patrick Lamastus)
Subject: vi or elvis HIGH-LIGHT
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 20:22:01 GMT
Organization: GE Simulation & Control Systems

Hi!,

Is there any way to high-light text in vi or elvis.

What I want to do is delete, paste or copy high-lighted text. 

Patrick
lamastus@sunny.dab.ge.com
From: dulin@renoir.admin.cftnet.com (Tom Dulin)
Newsgroups: comp.editors
Subject: Need Simple Full Screen Editor
Summary: I need the source code to a simple full screen editor.
Keywords: editor
Date: 7 Jan 93 01:36:30 GMT
Organization: CFTNet

I am seeking the source code to a simple to use full screen editor
providing line-wrap and arrow key operation - nothing fancy.

My intended users are not highly technical but are computer literate
vis-a-vis Dumb terminal and DOS workstation data entry functions.


Any assistance offered would be greatly appreciated.
From: dtb@otto (David Bath)
Newsgroups: comp.editors
Subject: Re: Mouse cognizant vi?
Date: 12 Jan 93 14:51:30 GMT
Organization: RMIT Computer Centre
NNTP-Posting-Host: otto.bf.rmit.oz.au

alien@boi.hp.com (Tom von Alten) writes:

>Eric R. Johnson (ejohnson@enuxha.eas.asu.edu) wrote:
>: Is there a version of vi that will move the cursor to a point
>: clicked on with a mouse?  Most times it's _great_ to not leave the
>: home row, but if I resize a window, and want to jump to a new point,
>: it would be nice to just be able to _go_ there with one click, and 
>: not a bunch of keystrokes.

Try xvi from simtel msdos archives, editor directories
unix source for suns, crays, bsd, sysv, and PC.

David T. Bath	Email:dtb@otto.bf.rmit.oz.au	Phone:03-3477511
Global Technology Corporation, 179 Grattan St, CARLTON, VIC, 3153, AUSTRALIA
"Failure to emulate is the best revenge" - Marcus Aurelius
-- 
David T. Bath	Email:dtb@otto.bf.rmit.oz.au	Phone:03-3477511
Global Technology Corporation, 179 Grattan St, CARLTON, VIC, 3153, AUSTRALIA
"Failure to emulate is the best revenge" - Marcus Aurelius
Newsgroups: comp.editors
From: dx3@ornl.gov (C. H. Decker)
Subject: Borland dropping Brief
Organization: Martin Marietta Energy Systems
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 13:25:40 GMT

In an article I received from my sponsor, (periodical not identified), 
Borland may drop Brief and ObjectVision. In the article, "Two Borland 
International Inc. products are in danger of extiction as stand-alone 
offerings. Brief, the popular program edir that Borland snapped up from 
Solution Systems this spring, and ObjectVision, a home grown enduser 
programming tool, may be victims of the recent layoffs and reorganization 
that swept through the Scotts Valley, Calif., software firm earlier this 
month, said sources close to the company.....Borland officials declined to 
comment on the status of Brief and ObjectVision. "Philippe [Kahn] is still 
determining what to keep and what not to keep," said a spokeswoman for the 
company."

Like many of you, I have a personal and professional interest in both Brief 
and ObjectVision. Any clarification of this article or updates to it would 
be appreciated.

Carla

Martin Marietta Energy Systems            |
Data Systems Research and Development     |                      
ATTN:  C.H. Decker                        |      Phone (615) 574-8014
1099 Commerce Park Dr.                    |      FAX   (615) 574-9374
Oak Ridge, TN  37831-7620                 |      Email DX3@ornl.gov
Newsgroups: comp.editors
From: nh@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (nicholas.hounsome)
Subject: Re: vi or elvis HIGH-LIGHT
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 08:49:17 GMT

From article <1993Jan8.202201.5236@ge-dab.GE.COM>, by lamastus@sundew.dab.ge.com (Patrick Lamastus):
> Hi!,
> 
> Is there any way to high-light text in vi or elvis.
> 
> What I want to do is delete, paste or copy high-lighted text. 
> 
> Patrick
> lamastus@sunny.dab.ge.com

In elvis use v (char) or V (lines)

eg. If I was at the start of the previos line and wanted "use v"
I would type ww to move to the start of "use". "v" starts highlighting
and "ee" movement commands extend the selection to the "v". "d" then
deletes this highlighted text. I think that it is quite neat
although to be honest I don't use it much 'cos I am an old hand at vi.

Something to watch is that the display can be confusing if you have
a block cursor 'cos it looks like you have one less character selected.
From: bware@slate.mines.colorado.edu (Bob Ware)
Newsgroups: comp.editors
Subject: Re: Vi for Beginners
Date: 5 Jan 93 00:49:53 GMT
Organization: Colorado School of Mines

gasman1@netcom.com (David A. Silva) writes:
: 
: Can anyone email me, or point me to an FTP site, where I can get
: "beginner" info on vi? Thanx - David
Get "vitutor" via anonymous ftp from ftp.mines.colorado.edu.

This is a "hands-on" tutorial that will get people started in less
than hour.

-- 
Bob Ware, System Administrator 
Computing and Networking, Colorado School of Mines, Golden, Co 80401, USA
(303) 273-3987
bware@mines.colorado.edu
Newsgroups: comp.editors
From: fjp@minerva.inesc.pt (Fernando Pereira)
Subject: Re: Searching for an IDEAL editor
Keywords: editor
Organization: INESC - Inst. Eng. Sistemas e Computadores, LISBOA. PORTUGAL.
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 19:52:31 GMT

In article <1igtb4INNrcp@sgi.iunet.it> peanuts@dist.dist.unige.it (Baudino Alberto Bruzzone Gabriele Durante Antonio) writes:
>
>Hello, folks !
>I have a little problem : I must write/modify a lot of C code for a robotic
>navigation simulation program ( I'm a student in electronic engineering
>at University of Genoa ) but I'm very tired of VI's mental perversions.
>Therefore I'm searching for an editor for UNIX and/or X11 which allows :
>
>1) to utilize arrow keys (in insert mode !) to position the cursor.
>2) to utilize DEL key (in insert mode!) to delete character at cursor position.
>3) to utilize Home,End,PgDn,PgUp keys for a fast change of cursor position.
>4) to utilize mouse to position the cursor and/or to cut/copy/paste portions oftext.
>
>Does any of you know if exists an IDEAL editor with aforesaid characteristics ?
>If yes, how can I get it ? (It's sufficient that you give me the FTP address
>where I can find and get it).
>
>Thanks in advance !
>
>My e-mail is : peanuts@dist.dist.unige.it.
>
>
>                                "Necessity is the mother of invention"


I think you should try FPTED.
It has mouse support and you can may any key in your keyboard to perform
what you need. (you can also map mouse buttons).

You can get the sources using annonimous ftp at minerva.inesc.pt .


Fernando 


-- 
*********************************************************************
*   Fernando J. G. Pereira     IST/INESC                            *
*   Lisboa - Portugal          fjp@minerva.inesc.pt                 *
*********************************************************************
Xref: sparky comp.editors:3173 alt.religion.computers:940 alt.religion.emacs:507
From: friedman@gnu.ai.mit.edu (Noah Friedman)
Newsgroups: comp.editors,alt.religion.computers,alt.religion.emacs
Subject: Re: scroll up/down
Date: 8 Jan 93 02:10:40
Organization: Free Software Foundation, 675 Mass Ave. Cambridge, MA 02139
Distribution: inet
NNTP-Posting-Host: nutrimat.gnu.ai.mit.edu
In-reply-to: shibuya@bl.applicon.slb.com's message of 8 Jan 93 00:58:20 GMT

Emacs predates vi, so if either program is guilty of incompatibility, it is
the latter. 

Secondly, there is no correct definition of "scroll up" or "scroll down",
because the direction of scrolling depends on your frame of reference.
There's no particular reason to choose one frame of reference over another;
some people find one more intuitive, others another.
Newsgroups: comp.editors
From: krusso@csi.compuserve.com (Kevin Russo)
Subject: Crisp for BSD?
Organization: CompuServe Incorporated
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 12:41:11 GMT

Can someone out there tell me if Crisp (the Brief-like editor
for Un*x) is available for 386bsd or some flavor of BSD?

Thanks in advance!
--Kevin
Newsgroups: comp.editors
From: shibuya@bl.applicon.slb.com (Hiroto Shibuya)
Subject: Re: scroll up/down
Reply-To: shibuya@bl.applicon.slb.com
Organization: Applicon; Billerica, MA (USA)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 00:52:52 GMT

Following is a discussion found in Emacs Lisp Manual (thanks to
petonic@hal.com for pointing it out) which clearly state the existance
of two different way to look at the direction of scroll up/down, and
the reason for the choice made by Emacs.

------------------------------------------------

Vertical Scrolling
==================

   Vertical scrolling means moving the text up or down in a window.
It works by changing the value of the window's display-start
location.  It may also change the value of `window-point' to keep it
on the screen.

   In the commands `scroll-up' and `scroll-down', the directions "up"
and "down" refer to the motion of the text in the buffer at which you
are looking through the window.  Imagine that the text is written on
a long roll of paper and that the scrolling commands move the paper
up and down.  Thus, if you are looking at text in the middle of a
buffer and repeatedly call `scroll-down', you will eventually see the
beginning of the buffer.

   Some people have urged that the opposite convention be used: they
imagine that the window moves over text that remains in place.  Then
"down" commands would take you to the end of the buffer.  This view
is more consistent with the actual relationship between windows and
the text in the buffer, but it is less like what the user sees.  The
position of a window on the terminal does not move, and short
scrolling commands clearly move the text up or down on the screen.
We have chosen names that fit the user's point of view.

------------------------------------------------

I'm still curious which choice other editors are making.

					Hiroto Shibuya
			
					Applicon Inc.
					Billerica, MA
					U.S.A.



Newsgroups: comp.editors
From: lamastus@sundew.dab.ge.com (Patrick Lamastus)
Subject: vi clone for DOS
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 18:43:32 GMT
Organization: GE Simulation & Control Systems

Hi!,

Is there any vi clone for DOS.  
If so would you let me know where is it.

Thanks in advance

Patrick
From: dtb@otto (David Bath)
Newsgroups: comp.editors
Subject: Re: vi clone for DOS
Date: 12 Jan 93 14:58:07 GMT
Organization: RMIT Computer Centre
NNTP-Posting-Host: otto.bf.rmit.oz.au

lamastus@sundew.dab.ge.com (Patrick Lamastus) writes:

>Is there any vi clone for DOS.  
>If so would you let me know where is it.

SIMTEL MSDOS archives, editors directory
	get elvis
	get xvi
Other alternative is the EXCELLENT MKS vi (but get the rest
of the toolkit as well if your pocket permits)

David T. Bath	Email:dtb@otto.bf.rmit.oz.au	Phone:03-3477511
Global Technology Corporation, 179 Grattan St, CARLTON, VIC, 3153, AUSTRALIA
"Failure to emulate is the best revenge" - Marcus Aurelius
-- 
David T. Bath	Email:dtb@otto.bf.rmit.oz.au	Phone:03-3477511
Global Technology Corporation, 179 Grattan St, CARLTON, VIC, 3153, AUSTRALIA
"Failure to emulate is the best revenge" - Marcus Aurelius
Newsgroups: comp.editors
From: gasman1@netcom.com (David A. Silva)
Subject: Pico 1.5 source
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 06:48:35 GMT


Can someone direct me to a source for Pico 1.5 precompiled for a SUnOS,
or point me to source files and how this Unix neophyte could compile it
locally? Thanx - David
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
				David A. Silva
 	     		"The Sleeper has awakened" - Mua'dib
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.editors
From: lachlan@dmp.csiro.au (Lachlan Cranswick)
Subject: Re: How do I search for blank lines in vi?
Organization: CSIRO Division of Mineral Products, Melbourne, AUSTRALIA
Distribution: inet
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 05:34:54 GMT

mick@dcs.bbk.ac.uk (Mick Farmer) writes:

>Hi,

>Timothy asks how to do this.  Doesn't anyone learn about
>regular expressions any more?

>Try :/^$/

>which means go to the command line (:), and search for a
>line (/.../) containing no characters between the start of
>line (^) and the end of line ($). 

>Regards,

>Mick

[Sarcasm mode on]

Yes Tim, why are you wasting all this
bandwidth with vi questions?  Don't you know
that the "i" in vi stands for intuitive?

Everything is so damm obvious in vi it is
no fun to use at all.  In fact, most new
users on our UNIX box complain that vi
is too easy to use - so I give them PICO -
that PICO command menu at the bottom of the screen
just goes right against the concept of user
friendliness that vi pioneered..

Summary:-
As vi is the highpoint of our civilization,
its all down hill from here.
(too bad if you missed it)

End of story.

[Sarcasm mode off]

Sorry for the above, I have to wait 90 minutes
for Roger Ramjet and need something to do.
(Problem about Micks solution is that it actually
makes sense - bit of a worry)

Lachlan.







"Postman Pat.... Postman Pat.........
Postman Pat and his black
and white cat, all the birds are singing,  Pat feels
he is a really happy man."
(85 minutes till Roger Ramjet)
-- 
  Lachlan Cranswick  -  CSIRO             _--_|\  lachlan@dmp.CSIRO.AU
  Division of Mineral Products           /      \ tel +61 3 647 0367
  PO Box 124, Port Melbourne 3207        \_.--._/ fax +61 3 646 3223
  AUSTRALIA                                    v 
Newsgroups: comp.editors
From: markb@tplrd.tpl.oz.au (Mark Bower)
Subject: Elvis 1.6 on SUNS - cursor key problems
Organization: Telectronics Pacing Systems
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 02:38:22 GMT

Has anyone managed to get a fully functional version of Elvis on SUN
sparcstations running SunOS 4.1.1 ?

I've managed to build the elvis binary without problems, but when it
is run from an Xterminal (vt100/xterm window), it reads the Cursor (arrow)
keys incorrectly. This appears to be a problem with the termcap driver. 
I know that my termcap entry is correct - the problem is in Elvis (version
1.6)

Has anyone had any similar problems ? If so, what fixes (if any) are
possible ?

Thanks in advance for any help,

Regards,

Mark
-- 
Telectronics Pty Ltd  <\\\         <'\  "Above all, be cool" - Psychic TV
7 Siruis Rd, Lane Cove >>>>=========>-> Email: markb@tps.com (US), or
NSW, Australia 2066   <///         <,/  markb@tplrd.tpl.oz.au (Australia)
Xref: sparky comp.editors:3169 alt.religion.computers:939 alt.religion.emacs:505
From: djohnson@cs.ucsd.edu (Darin Johnson)
Newsgroups: comp.editors,alt.religion.computers,alt.religion.emacs
Subject: Re: scroll up/down
Date: 8 Jan 93 03:33:12 GMT
Followup-To: comp.editors
Organization: =CSE Dept., U.C. San Diego

>THEY SCROLL UP/DOWN IN DIFFERENT DIRECTION!

1) Imagine that in emacs you are scrolling a typewriter (you know, the
   kind with platens and all).  You turn the platen upwards to move
   to lower parts of the page, etc.  Remember, emacs was written
   back before wordprocessors and window systems were common items.

2) Does it matter?  Normally you would use the key rather than
   typing in scroll-up.  By the time you learn enough to type
   the whole command in, you should be well versed in how it
   works.  Note:  The function is normally bound to the key
   Control-V, and V is a downwards pointing letter!

3) What is "intuitively" the best way varies from person to
   person, and is useless as an argument.  Perhaps intuitively
   cars should always drive on the right side of the road?

4) Who CARES if things are different?  Do you want the computer
   police wandering around everywhere to make sure all programs
   behave the same?  If so, go tell it to your apple marketeer.

5) Are you really confused, or trying to raise an irrelevant
   question in your fight to show that emacs is substandard?
-- 
Darin Johnson
djohnson@ucsd.edu  --  Toy cows in Africa
Newsgroups: comp.editors