Newsgroups: alt.pagan


>>>>> On Sept, 9, Elisabeth Cuddihy wrote:

> If my memory serves me correctly, the sword belongs to Nuada, the spear
> to Lugh, the Cauldron is the Dagda's and the Lia Fail is not listed as
> belonging to anyone.  I've never seen the shield listed as one of the
> treasures of the Irish.  Please quote me some sources on it because I am
> quite curious!!:-)
I've never seen a sheild reference either. In some traditional tales - eg
the one about the Dagda, Angus Og and the Pooka in _Celtic Wonder Tales_,
(collected by Ella Bright?) the Dagda posessed a magic harp, which could
send any enemy to sleep with one chord.

> "Stone Penis"?  I've never heard that descriptive term for the Lia Fail
> before!
I don't think that it is a particularly new observation that many (though
by no means all) ancient standing stones are phallic in shape.  But then,
fertility has usually been a core mystery in most ancient or primitive
spiritual traditions. No doubt an anthropologist could say much more about
this (cue Ailsa?).

> The Lia Fail will sing/scream out when touched by the next king.  In this
                                         ^^^^^^^^^^
                                         stood upon
> way it serves a purpose similar to the Arthurian stone.
There are several claimed instantations of the Lia Fail. The most
convincing claim, apparently, is the upright standing stone at Tara. It
remained silent when I stood my (6 month old) son on it, in May this year.
Bummer. I'll have to keep my day job.

> For those of you who are not familar with Irish myth, these treasures
> have magical abilities (like the spear has a deadly strike and will
> return to the hand of the person who threw it, or something like that)
> and were brought to Ireland from four unearthly cities when the Tuatha
> came to settle the isle.  As for the names of the cities and some other
> related info on these treasures, you'll have to wait 'til I get home
> because my memory is not that of a bard's.
I have never equated the multiple names of the Celtic otherworld with
cities, more realms in general. I assume you are referring to Tir n'an Og,
Tir na Mor, etc?  Does anyone have a complete list of these names?

> Questions: 
> 1) Has anyone ever seen a name listed with the Lia Fail or does it
> have no "owner"?   
Again, some old tales speak of Brigid's stone, which rises out of the earth
at appropriate times to perform assorted acts of healing (restoring sight
to the blind, etc).  I think I have heard Brigid's stone equated with the
Lia Fail, but my subconscious could be making that up.  In any case, this
particular aspect of Brigid lore seems to be mostly in the Christian part,
rather than the Pagan part.


Another theory for origin of the sword in the stone myth, which I am quite
fond of, is to harken back to the time when man first learned to extract
metal from ore and make tools.  This was a very significant step in our
evolution.  Until that time, the sword was unmistakably in the stone, and
(M-x pure-speculation-mode) perhaps it was a closely kept secret as to how
to extract it.

> -Liz

Blessings,
Ian.


|Ian Dickinson    HP Labs Bristol (Knowledge Based Programming Dept)   England|
|Email: ijd@hplb.hpl.hp.com    | Enough if something from our hands have power|
|   These opinions are mine,   | To live and act and serve the future hour    |
|  and not (necessarily) HP's  |                                 - Wordsworth |
Newsgroups: alt.pagan