HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: 003166j@axe.acadiau.ca (JASON WILLIAM JARVIS)
Subject: Re: Bombadil and the study of history
Organization: Acadia University
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 18:02:36 GMT

In article <MVOORHIS.93Jan6142608@granite.WPI.EDU> mvoorhis@granite.WPI.EDU (
Michael C Voorhis) writes:>In article <003166j.11.726344809@axe.acadiau.ca> 
003166j@axe.acadiau.ca (JASON>WILLIAM JARVIS) writes:
>> Enjoy the figure of 
>> Bombadil for what he is, a mysterious character that provides an interesting
>> aside to the journey of the hobbits.

>Interesting that a member of a history department preaches ignorance of
>history.  Isn't this what historians spend a great deal of time doing--
>speculating on unclear portions of history, or gathering data to construct
>a more accurate picture of history?  That is what we do here in our
>conversations on Bombadil, or whatever else.  Why can't this data-gathering
>and discussion be applied to the history and peoples of Middle Earth?

>        Mike.
>        (mvoorhis@wpi.wpi.edu)

Sheesh.  I open my mouth to voice my opinion, and I get attacked.  The 
purpose of my posting was merely to state what I believed to be a valid 
point in the discussion.  I do tend to regard Tolkien's work a *type* of 
history, although perhaps more along the lines of Homer, in that while it is 
excellently written, historians regard acts of divine intervention and the 
supernatural as unhistorical.  BUT, the romantic in me cannot help but 
believe even just a little bit in his tales.  I just wish that what he wrote 
WAS our ancient history.  Besides, I'm still only a student.  I know that 
it sure would make my studies a hell of a lot more interesting, 
though. . . .

	Jason
	(003166Jaxe.acadiau.ca)
From: paulg@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Paul A Gunderson)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien
Subject: Re: Fandom
Date: 13 Jan 1993 00:30:49 GMT
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4

In article <-v#@byu.edu> ashworth@zuni.math.byu.edu (ashworth nathan) writes:
> Does anybody know of any work that has all the depth and reality that 
>Tolkiens work does ?
>
>Nathan


Any work anywhere?


There are three groups of books that I can list off the top of my head that
are in the same league as JRRT's stuff:

	James Branch Cabell	Poictesme series (_Jurgen_, et al)
	Austin Tappin Wright	_Islandia_
	Frank Herbert		Dune series

The first item is a series of fantasies based in a fake medieval France.
These books have a great deal of depth, satire and fun.  (_Jurgen_ was
banned as obscene in the early part of this century by the NY Society for
the Suppression of Vice.  Controversy sold well.  _Jurgen_ has never been
out of print since.)

The second is a single novel that *in its edited version* is over 1000 pages
long.  Its has appendices as long as slim novels.  The author wrote
languages, glossaries, geneologies, geographies, histories, a gazetteer of
several provinces, etc.  It is not a fantasy, really.  It *is* a wholy
invented creation.  One of my favorite books.  (But, by no means, not to
everyone's liking.)

The third needs no long discussion.  If Herbert has a son (preferably an
Oxford Don, but one can't have everything) who can pull out all the various
Dune writings, I'm sure there is enough depth in that creation to rival
JRRT.


There may be other such books out there.  (I tend to think that the longer
running SF series get close to JRRT's depth -- Asimov?, Cherryh?, Farmer?.
Perhaps that comes from working on one world view for a very long time.)
These three just jumped out at me.


----
Paul Gunderson
paulg@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien
From: pvs9@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de (Praktikum Verteilte Systeme)
Subject: Another example of Tolkien-inspired music
Originator: pvs9@ra.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de
Reply-To: pvs9@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de (Praktikum Verteilte Systeme)
Organization: TU Braunschweig, Informatik (Bueltenweg), Germany
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 20:38:41 GMT

A friend of mine owns a cassette tape from a band named 'Yavanna'.  It is
tiled 'Lieder aus Mittelerde' (german for Songs from Middle-earth).  The lyrics
are german, the songs are (as I remember) mostly related to The Silmarillion.
I remember that one song was titled "Earendils Gesang in Valimar".  The music
sounds quite nice.  The liner notes reveal a rather christian view of all the
things, e.g. Eru is explained as 'one of the many names of God'.  My friend
obtained the tape in a local christian bookstore.

May Elbereth protect you... Joerg Rhiemeier

Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien
From: paul@pj.tmc.edu (Thorongil)
Subject: Re: 
Organization: Mississippi State University
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 15:25:59 GMT

The book is _Tolkien The Illustrated Encyclopaedia_  ( ISBN 0-02-533431-X ).

In my opinion they need to have a reviewer go over the book again 
because it contains so many errors in it, especially with the pictures.
For example on page 51 it has The Undying Lands "map" with Beleriand
as its subtitle and on page 50 it has Beleriand with The Undying Lands
as its subtitle.  Dumb mistake there folks.  Add to that that on 
pages 260-1 this same theme of reversing the subtitles and pictures
occurs again!  This time though it is with the hobbits Merry and Pippin.
It shows "Merry" wearing the Tree of Gondor & The Seven Stars while
"Pippin" is shown wearing a horse.  Come on folks.  Somebody needs to

#1 Pay attention.
#2 Correct the mistakes.

Aside from its many mistakes, it is a decent book.  My advice is to 
wait for an edition to come out without the mistakes in it.

Thorongil

Newsgroups: alt.fan.spinal-tap,alt.fan.douglas-adams
From: hirai@cc.swarthmore.edu (Eiji Hirai)
Subject: Re: Telephone sanitizers
Organization: Information Services, Swarthmore College, Swarthmore, PA, USA
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 23:53:30 GMT

craigdo@microsoft.com (Craig Dowell) writes:
: Derek Smalls

I just realized that this telephone sanitizer's name is the same as one of
the (fictional) musicians in Rob Reiner's _This is Spinal Tap_.

Is this is a coincidence?

--
hirai@cc.swarthmore.edu (Eiji Hirai)    :     :    :   :  : :: ::: :::: :::::
Unix Geek for Swarthmore College        :     :    :   :  : :: ::: :::: :::::
Information Services, Swarthmore, PA, US.       Copyright 1992 by Eiji Hirai.
I don't speak for Swarthmore College.                    All Rights Reserved.
Xref: sparky alt.fan.spinal-tap:7 alt.fan.douglas-adams:4603
From: cwa@oasis.icl.co.uk (Chris Adams)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.spinal-tap,alt.fan.douglas-adams
Subject: Re: Telephone sanitizers
Date: 8 Jan 93 12:40:50 GMT
Followup-To: alt.fan.spinal-tap
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

What do you mean fictional?

Spinal Tap are a real band, ok they're taking the piss, but they're still a
band.

     .-----------------------------.----------------------------------.
     |   .  .     ____    _   _    | WARNING: This Superman suit does |
     |  /| /| .-.    /   |_| |_>   | not enable the wearer to fly.    |
     | / |/ | |     /___ | | |     `----------------------------------|
     |      aka Chris Adams                cwa@oasis.icl.co.uk        |
     `----------------------------------------------------------------'
Xref: sparky alt.fan.spinal-tap:6 alt.fan.douglas-adams:4581
From: a01calam@skyfox
Newsgroups: alt.fan.spinal-tap,alt.fan.douglas-adams
Subject: RE: Telephone sanitizers
Date: 9 JAN 93 06:50:51 GMT
Organization: University of Saskatchewan
NNTP-Posting-Host: sask.usask.ca

There's bit more than just a coincidence there.  The telephone sanitizer IS
Derek Smalls from Spinal Tap. (Derek said in an interview that he used to
be a telephone sanitizer's apprentice.)

Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
From: say@monashee.sfu.ca (Daniel Say)
Subject: NYTimes 10 Jan 1993. Masur on 13th and the lost pieces
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 06:12:47 GMT

	In the New York Times of 10 January (Sunday 'Big' issue) there is 
a long article by Kenneth Furie (page 25, 30) on Kurt Masur's Polish and 
current New York Philharmonic premiere on Thursday January 14th at 
Avery Fischer Hall of the 13th (Babi Yar) with Yevtushenko.
From: raeram@kittyhawk (Richard A. Muirden)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
Subject: Re: Looking for a biography of DSH
Date: 4 Jan 1993 05:06:26 GMT
Organization: RMIT Computer Centre
NNTP-Posting-Host: kittyhawk.aero.rmit.oz.au

rchrd@netcom.com (Richard Friedman) writes:

>The New Shostakovich is certainly the best book on DSCH to date!  
>Both from the point of view of biography and musical analysis.
>Northeastern Univ. Press, Boston, 1990. I dont think a softcover
>has been published yet.  ($30!)

I got it in softcover, but it was a UK printing. Costing 9 English
pounds...  

>Ian MacDonald is described only as "a music journalist who also
>writes and records hos own music."
>The research is extensive and impressive.  And, you don't have to
>read Testimony first.  All this is covered in the introductory "Prelude".
>I highly recommmend it as must reading for anyone in this alt. group.

But it really helps if you have read Testimony beforehand. I read
MacDonald's book right after Testimony and it really complimented it
well, but it is good just for itself, as you say...

>-- 
> /\=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=/\
> \/Richard Friedman (510)528-7055      |  rchrd@netcom.com    \/
> /\Applied Parallel Research (Berkeley)|                      /\
> \/=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=\/

-richard

-- 
Richard Muirden, System Administator, RMIT.Aero. Engineering.. Office: 10.12.26
raeram@kittyhawk.aero.rmit.OZ.AU --- IRC: GA --- 'phone: +61 3 660-3142    LL&P
---------Hopeless Romantic, Fanatic of Shostakovich and "Star Trek" -----------
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
From: bobs@gnu.ai.mit.edu (Bob Sutton)
Subject: Re: Suggested conductor/symphony?
Organization: Free Software Foundation
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 09:44:22 GMT

In article <1honeuINNt54@escargot.xx.rmit.OZ.AU> raeram@kittyhawk (Richard A. Muirden) writes:
>RUSHING@wsuvm1.csc.wsu.edu writes:

>>Another CD I have that I don't care for (although
>>it is definitely not the music I don't care for
>>just the production) is of the Eleventh by
>>the USSR Ministry of Culture Symphony Orchestra
>>conducted by Gennadi Rozhdestvensky and recorded
>>in 1983.  I assumed that the Russians would do
>>DS justice, but apparently not.
>
>the 11th, go for either James DePriest/Helsinki PO on
>Delos (D/CD 3080) which is wonderful, the Haitink (on
>a double CD set with the 6th and some overtures) or the
>Jarvi on DG..

Rozhdestvensky is a good conductor.  Soviet/Russian conductors tend to 
conduct the music DS in a way that non-Soviet/Russian ones haven't been able 
to.  I've always thought of him as a good Shostakovich conductor.  But
it is possible he was cramped for time and the recording might have been
suffering from fidelity problems.  I've never known a Melodiya recording that
sounded particularly good fidelity-wise.  Give him a second chance.

>>Can anyone suggest conductors or orchestras (or
>>specific recordings) of DS works?  I would be
>>very appreciative.
>
>My personal favourites are the cycle (or mostly complete
>cycle) by Neeme Jarvi mostly on Chandos and a few on
>DG, with Haitink also doing very well on Decca/London. 
>
>Jarvi conducts the Scottish National Orchestra (now
>Royal Scottish Orchestra) and the Gothenburg Symphony
>Orchestra, while Haitink recordings are mainly with
>the London Philharmonic and the Concergebow(sp?) Orch.

Stokowski's 11th (if you can find it) is *very* good.  I think it was the only
one available for a long time.  When was it recorded?  1959?  IN any case
it's certainly among the best.  It's an ADD remastering so the CD will
be cheap.
-- 
Bob Sutton                        Love, most bitterly and fiercely oppresses
bobs@gnu.ai.mit.edu		  those who fight it than those who offer
al876@cleveland.freenet.edu       their servitude.    -- Ovid, "Amores". 
rsutton@eis.calstate.edu
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
From: vpt@jytko.jyu.fi (V.-P. Tahvanainen)
Subject: Re: Song of the Forests.
Keywords: shost, craftmanship, hack work
Organization: University of Jyvaskyla, Finland
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 08:55:33 GMT

In article <1id9qiINNl6r@escargot.xx.rmit.OZ.AU> raeram@kittyhawk (Richard A. Muirden) writes:
>vpt@jytko.jyu.fi (V.-P. Tahvanainen) writes:
>
>
>>IMHO, both are very well-written technically, and utterly forgettable
>>musically. That is, DS was a master in orchestration, and frequently
>>used this talent to mask the fact that he did not really have much to
>>say in works he was not really inspired of. (And for once I can speak
>>of real experience, since I was actually once playing the Festive
>>Overture in an amateur orchestra in my youth...)
>
>If you mean that they are forgettable in terms of DSCH's other works
>then I'd agree, but I'd say that on their own as music, forgetting
>the rest of DSCH's works, you'd have to admit they are heads above
>what lesser composers (those fools from the prokult that replaced
>the "Big Four" in Soviet musical leadership at the time) could have
>produced. Sure, in relation to other Shost works these are plain
>awful, and even more so because of the circumstances surrounding 
>them, however... I think they stand up quite well even today
>(er.. well)
>
Well, I mostly agree. But then again, my standard for 'forgettable'
is pretty high :-) :-) As I said, Shost at least knew how to make
even his less inspired works sound good, which certainly is a
nontrivial task.

>>Incidentally, I remember one of my teachers refer to the "Song of the
>>forests" as "the oratorio that sounds like American film music". Could
>>it be that some people like it because of that? :-) :-)
>
>Hmm.. that's funny because I can't say that I find that in the music, but
>I find I like it because of the harmonies that voices and orchestra
>produce together (for example the gentle 'humming' of voices with the
>soloist coming in only later, which reminds me of trees gently waving
>in the wind, or the section where the trumpets pipe a fanfare over
>low strings which brings on the 'cute' children's chorus is quite
>nice) ... Maybe I'm just going wierd - been listeing to the 14th
>symphony not enough eh folks? :) :) :)
>
Try listening the 4th's finale twice over with as much volume you
(or your family, neighbours, pets etc.) can stand; that'll help :-)
:-).
>
>>Veli-Pekka
>
>-richard
>
Veli-Pekka

Veli-Pekka Tahvanainen, researcher, project MetaPHOR / All opinions are solely
Dept. of Computer Science & Information systems     / mine unless explicitely
University of Jyvaskyla                            / otherwise stated, and
P.O.Box 35, SF-40351  JYVASKYLA, Finland          / subject to change!
vpt@hyeena.jyu.fi, vpt@jytko.jyu.fi
Xref: sparky alt.fan.shostakovich:503 rec.music.classical:20064
From: raeram@kittyhawk (Richard A. Muirden)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich,rec.music.classical
Subject: Words to Shostakovich's Symphony #2 (to go with the discussion)
Date: 11 Jan 93 23:53:00 GMT
Organization: RMIT Computer Centre
NNTP-Posting-Host: kittyhawk.aero.rmit.oz.au

Hi. Since there was a dicussion going on in alt.fan.shostakovich about
the 2nd symphony and 'those' words, I thought I'd type them in, the
english translation for those that didn't have a copy of the text or
the work. This translation is taken from the CD of Symphonies 2&3+"The
Age of Gold" recording by the LPO/Haitink on DECCA/London (421 131-2) (DDD)

enjoy...

Words to Shostakovich: Symphony No 2: "To October" - words by Bezymensky.

"To October - A Symphonic Dedication"

We marched, and begged for work and bread,
our hearts gripped in the vice of anguish,
factori chimneys reached up into the clouds,
like hands which could not clench a fist
The dreat names of our fetters:
silence, suffering.
Our sad words burst out in the silence
louder than the roar of guns.
Oh, Lenin:
	You forged freedom from our torment.
	You forged freedom from our toil-hardened hands.
We understood, Lenin, that our fate has only one name:
	Strife, Strife.
Strife, you led us to the ultimate freedom.
Strife, you gave us the victory of labour.
Nobody will ever deprive us of the victory over
oppression and darkness, never.
May each in the battle be young and bold.

May the name of this victory be October.
October is the herald of the awaited dawn.
October is the freedom of rebellious ages.
October is labour, joy and song.
October is happiness in the field and at the work bench.
The slogan, October and Lenin.
The new age and Lenin,
The Comune and Lenin.

-- 
Richard Muirden, System Administator, RMIT.Aero. Engineering.. Office: 10.12.26
raeram@kittyhawk.aero.rmit.OZ.AU --- IRC: GA --- 'phone: 660-3142 Fax: 660-2053 
---------Hopeless Romantic, Fanatic of Shostakovich and "Star Trek" -----------
From: raeram@kittyhawk (Richard A. Muirden)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
Subject: Re: DS Symphonies 2 & 3
Date: 7 Jan 1993 09:03:50 GMT
Organization: RMIT Computer Centre
NNTP-Posting-Host: kittyhawk.aero.rmit.oz.au

bobs@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Bob Sutton) writes:

>Someone mentioned a while back the Haitink recordings of the Symphonies 2
>and 3.  I have them on LP.  No doubt about it in my eyes:  #3 is crap.
>But #2 isn't all that bad.  I like it.  It's not very good when you compare
>it to the rest of his life's work, but it's interesting enough.  The
>symphony is essentially a hymn to their God Lenin.  If you ignore the
>silly lyrics it's not a bad piece.  For a similar type of piece written
>by an American composer, look no further than Howard Hanson's "Song of
>Democracy" based upon two poems of Walt Whitman.  It's crap.

I think the first movement's experemtal nature is really interesting,
and the lyrics of the choral section are rubbish but I like the tie
in with the 12 symphony, well anyway that should be the other way
around of course, but the music shows development - and to think it
is only 4 opuses away from the wonderful 1st symphony..


>-- 
>Bob Sutton                        Love, most bitterly and fiercely oppresses
>bobs@gnu.ai.mit.edu		  those who fight it than those who offer
>al876@cleveland.freenet.edu       their servitude.    -- Ovid, "Amores". 
>rsutton@eis.calstate.edu
-- 
Richard Muirden, System Administator, RMIT.Aero. Engineering.. Office: 10.12.26
raeram@kittyhawk.aero.rmit.OZ.AU --- IRC: GA --- 'phone: +61 3 660-3142    LL&P
---------Hopeless Romantic, Fanatic of Shostakovich and "Star Trek" -----------
From: bobs@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Bob Sutton)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
Subject: DS Symphonies 2 & 3
Date: 6 Jan 1993 10:20:18 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization
NNTP-Posting-Host: hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu

Someone mentioned a while back the Haitink recordings of the Symphonies 2
and 3.  I have them on LP.  No doubt about it in my eyes:  #3 is crap.
But #2 isn't all that bad.  I like it.  It's not very good when you compare
it to the rest of his life's work, but it's interesting enough.  The
symphony is essentially a hymn to their God Lenin.  If you ignore the
silly lyrics it's not a bad piece.  For a similar type of piece written
by an American composer, look no further than Howard Hanson's "Song of
Democracy" based upon two poems of Walt Whitman.  It's crap.

-- 
Bob Sutton                        Love, most bitterly and fiercely oppresses
bobs@gnu.ai.mit.edu		  those who fight it than those who offer
al876@cleveland.freenet.edu       their servitude.    -- Ovid, "Amores". 
rsutton@eis.calstate.edu
From: raeram@kittyhawk (Richard A. Muirden)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
Subject: Re: Song of the Forests.
Date: 6 Jan 1993 00:40:50 GMT
Organization: RMIT Computer Centre
NNTP-Posting-Host: kittyhawk.aero.rmit.oz.au
Keywords: shost, craftmanship, hack work

vpt@jytko.jyu.fi (V.-P. Tahvanainen) writes:

>Well, I know I should not act like the regular dissident, but can't
>resist...

Heck why not, I love you Finnish dissidents :) :) :) :)


>IMHO, both are very well-written technically, and utterly forgettable
>musically. That is, DS was a master in orchestration, and frequently
>used this talent to mask the fact that he did not really have much to
>say in works he was not really inspired of. (And for once I can speak
>of real experience, since I was actually once playing the Festive
>Overture in an amateur orchestra in my youth...)

If you mean that they are forgettable in terms of DSCH's other works
then I'd agree, but I'd say that on their own as music, forgetting
the rest of DSCH's works, you'd have to admit they are heads above
what lesser composers (those fools from the prokult that replaced
the "Big Four" in Soviet musical leadership at the time) could have
produced. Sure, in relation to other Shost works these are plain
awful, and even more so because of the circumstances surrounding 
them, however... I think they stand up quite well even today
(er.. well)

>Incidentally, I remember one of my teachers refer to the "Song of the
>forests" as "the oratorio that sounds like American film music". Could
>it be that some people like it because of that? :-) :-)

Hmm.. that's funny because I can't say that I find that in the music, but
I find I like it because of the harmonies that voices and orchestra
produce together (for example the gentle 'humming' of voices with the
soloist coming in only later, which reminds me of trees gently waving
in the wind, or the section where the trumpets pipe a fanfare over
low strings which brings on the 'cute' children's chorus is quite
nice) ... Maybe I'm just going wierd - been listeing to the 14th
symphony not enough eh folks? :) :) :)


>Veli-Pekka

-richard

-- 
Richard Muirden, System Administator, RMIT.Aero. Engineering.. Office: 10.12.26
raeram@kittyhawk.aero.rmit.OZ.AU --- IRC: GA --- 'phone: +61 3 660-3142    LL&P
---------Hopeless Romantic, Fanatic of Shostakovich and "Star Trek" -----------
From: jiang@andromeda.rutgers.edu (Mingchang Jiang)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
Subject: Re: DS Symphonies 2 & 3
Date: 6 Jan 93 16:45:11 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

I don't understand why we have to feel sorry about "silly texts" in
some of Shostakovich's great music.

A lot of Bach's and Beethoven's great music is based on silly religious
context, in my opinion. That never hindered my enjoyment of it.

-- 
M\'{\i}ngch\=ang J\={\i}ang

%%%%%%%% If it ain't broke, fix it.
From: raeram@kittyhawk (Richard A. Muirden)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
Subject: Re: Song of the Forests.
Date: 6 Jan 1993 00:29:00 GMT
Organization: RMIT Computer Centre
NNTP-Posting-Host: kittyhawk.aero.rmit.oz.au

dozonoff@bu.edu (david ozonoff) writes:

>Since I left the original message, this is a bit redundant,
>but yes, there are others who like Song of the Forests. If
>anyone knows of plans to re-issue the LP on CD or re-record
>it I would be grateful to know it. For those who don'tknow
>the music, I think you will be well rewarded. It wears well
>on repeated hearing as well as being easily accessible.
>I recommend it to DS fans.

Well I have just written to "Classic CD" to ask if it has been
released, and if not to pertition Neeme Jarvi to record it ;-)
He's done Prokofiev's Cantata for the 20th Anniversary of the
Revolution - perhaps they (Chandos) could start a series of
"Stalinst Music" or something... hmmm maybe not...

anyway I like it more and more "Song of the Forrests"
(Op. 81)


>--
>Dave Ozonoff
>dozonoff@med-itvax1
>Boston University School of Public Health
>80 East Concord St., T3C
>Boston, MA 0213918
>(617) 638-4620
-- 
Richard Muirden, System Administator, RMIT.Aero. Engineering.. Office: 10.12.26
raeram@kittyhawk.aero.rmit.OZ.AU --- IRC: GA --- 'phone: +61 3 660-3142    LL&P
---------Hopeless Romantic, Fanatic of Shostakovich and "Star Trek" -----------
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
From: ymai@uwovax.uwo.ca
Subject: <None>
Organization: University of Western Ont, London
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 19:00:38 GMT

jjjjjjjjj
tttt