HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: discrimination at CMU
Date: 10 Nov 1992 13:04:11 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <CORWIN+.92Nov10081709@MORPHEUS.CIMDS.RI.CMU.EDU> 
corwin+@CMU.EDU (Scott Safier) writes:

> 2) CMU should judge people based upon their talent, not their sex or
> sexual orientation.  (Women were kicked out for being too fat, but
> this was never a complaint about a man)

I don't understand why you keep harping on talent.  Performing 
arts programs are not like academic programs, and things that
wouldn't matter if you were studying chemistry -- such as the
pitch of your voice, how you stand, what you do with your hands
when you talk, how you walk, your body -- *do* matter if you
want to be an actor.  If an actor is in such poor control of
his voice and body that he camps it up during every scene,
then I really don't care how much "talent" he has.

> 3) Currently, any drama student who attends a meeting of cmuOUT, the
> gay/lesbian/bisexual student group on campus, faces the risk of being
> kicked out of the drama school.

Is this a fact, or are you just asserting it to make the
CMU's drama school look bad?

> 4) exactly what type of "personal mannerisms" are you talking about?
> In my original post, I wrote about a student who was kicked out
> because he was too "camp"y and that he needed to work on his "physical
> strength and masculine colors".

Yes, that is what I mean by "personal mannerisms".  I would
imagine that the school also tries to get students to lose
regional accents.

>   Third, from the Theater Week article on the above "campy" student,
> "But Eric had not done any "campy" scenes, and in terms of physical
> strength, he was one of the more muscular men in our class, the only
> one, gay or straight, who regularly visited CMU's gym."

Oh, puh-leeze. 

Arne
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Re: Okay, what makes a Gay or Lesbian turn Republican?
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 20:47:13 GMT

In article <1992Nov9.190700.25354@gordian.com> mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas) writes:
>> AIDS first appeared on Reagan's watch, and the government's
>> response to this widening epidemic was simply a reflection of the Party's
>> "I've got mine" attitude.  There's no surprise there, really.  You could
>> go on and on with similar stories, none of which need to have directly
>> to do with lesbian and gay people, but which should concern people of
>> any persuasion.
>
>  You really think that the republicans indifference is born out of
>"I've got mine"? Not moral repugnance? 

As I pointed out, I was speaking in general, and not simply about gay
people or AIDS.  Yes, I do think that "I've got mine" was a big part of
their (lack of a) reaction, though I think sanctimonious repugnance and
a general xenophobia was equally rampant.  The Reaganite Republican
party is populated with people filled to the brim with complacency and
devoid of empathy.  They can't conceive of a life experience outside
their upper-middle-class mold.  They've got theirs; they were either
born to it, or _EARNED_ (emphasis theirs) their privilege.  Who cares
about the downtrodden?  Er, I mean, WHAT downtrodden?

>  You can be disgusted at their morality (as I am) which is largely
>religious, but to say that isn't the root is rather naive. Really,
>I'm sure you can come up with a better example of the "I've got mine"
>syndrome than this. 

Well, is this any clearer?  I think religion has very little to do with it.
Nancy "Let them wear off-the-rack" Reagan is not a religious person by any
stretch of the imagination, unless you count her whorship of Mammon, yet
she is the embodiment of the points I was making.  

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: snodgras@lclark.edu (Bil Snodgrass)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Twice Fucked (Colorado gays)
Date: 10 Nov 92 09:58:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: lclark.1992Nov10.095841.15292
Organization: Lewis & Clark College, Portland OR

In article <16906@umd5.umd.edu> jns@elea.umd.edu (J. N. Shaumeyer) writes:
>
>Robert Coren (coren@speed.osf.org) wrote:
> 
>> For whatever reason, the Colorado initiative got less press nationwide
>> than the Oregon one (which didn't get a whole hell of a lot, either,
>> but it did get some).
>
>Indeed that's true, but it may be worth bearing
>in mind that they were likely perceived differently
>as well.
>
>On Wednesday I told a friend that OR:9 was defeated,
>but I was upset that CO:2 had passed.  "But", he
>said, "the Colorado amendment wasn't nearly as *bad*
>as the Oregon amendment, was it?"  He got quite an
>earful for that remark.


Guess we are going to play the which one was worse game.  Did CO:2
have a passage in it calling homosexuality perverse?  Did CO:2 have
in it a paragraphy explaining that the State and all of its branches,
would actively educated the public on this perversity?  

I think not.  In measure 9 we had most of Colorado's measure 2 in
our second paragraph.  In Oregon there was an attempt to create
a second class for gays.  In Colordo your rights were taken away.  See
the difference and perhaps why we got more media attention?  Also
I think we as a community screamed louder.

>
>But it reminded me that for OR:9 it was much easier 
>to convince people that it was hateful and a bad thing
>in general, whereas CO:2, particularly *by* *comparison*, 
>seemed much more agreeable since it 'merely' denied 
>'special rights' to homosexuals.
>
>If the right-wing-facist tactic was to see just how much
>they could get away with, I think we've seen.
>
>--jns


Yep!  And now I bet Oregon's new initiative and the ones headed
for Ohio, California, and Washington look a lot like the one
in Colorado!

Bil
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: corwin+@CMU.EDU (Scott Safier)
Subject: discrimination at CMU
Originator: scotts@MORPHEUS.CIMDS.RI.CMU.EDU
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon University
Distribution: soc
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 18:17:42 GMT

From what I hear from friends in the Drama Department, the allogations in the 
article are true.

         FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

In today's issue of Theater Week, a trade publication for actors,
directors and others involved in the theater arts, Dick Scanlan
accuses the Carnegie Mellon Drama Department of conducting systematic
purges of those perceived to be gay and lesbian from the Drama
Department in the early 1980's.  In his article, "Bloody Monday:
'Fats', 'Fems' and other casualties of Carnegie Mellon's cuts",
Scanlan asserts that the University retroactively changed grades and
kicked-students out not for the quality of their work, but for
personal mannerisms.

In an interview with Scanlan, Eric Armstrong, a member of CMU's drama
department that was cut in 1981, recalls, "I had no warning, verbal or
written."  His letter informing him that he was cut from the program
said that he was "still riddled with personal mannerisms."  In a
second letter from then CMU Drama Department head Mel Shapiro, Eric
was told, "You present a very androgenous persona on stage which will
not help you get jobs in the future.  You need to work on much more
physical strength and masculine colors.  Camp can only be rewarded by
your classmates, not by the profession."  Eric had a grade point
average of 3.18 prior to being cut by the department.

In the article, Mel Shapiro, now at UCLA, maintains, "there are
certain young men whose sexual bent stands in the way of their
talent." 

Discrimination against gay and lesbian drama students is not a thing
of the past.  A 1990 CMU graduate, who was interviewed anonymously by
Scanlan, says, "Guys who were straight but not that great in the acting
field had a stronger chance of staying than the guys who had some
talent but were effeminate."

Carnegie Mellon added "sexual orientation" to their non-discrimination
policy in 1989.

"Students and employees of Carnegie Mellon should be judged on the
quality of their work, not on their sexual orientation," says Scott
Safier, a member of Carnegie Mellon's Association of Gay, Lesbian and
Bisexual Employees.  "What the drama department did is inexcusable."

Chris Newman, chairman of the Staff Council subcommittee to examine
discrimination against gays and lesbians at CMU concurs.  "For the
Drama Department to discriminate so openly is appalling and to
retroactively change grades is simply unethical.  I urge the
University to conduct a full investigation and remove anyone guilty of
such behavior from any decision making position."

Carnegie Mellon's Human Relations Commission is investigating the
charges. 

Contacts:
Duane Williams, chairman Association of Gay, Lesbian and Bisexual
Employees
268-3881

Toby Davis, Chairman, Carnegie Mellon's Human Relations Commission
268-8715

Robert Mehrabian, President, Carnegie Mellon University
268-2200

Elisabeth Orion, Head of Drama Department
268-2392

cmuOUT, 8794
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: salek@hsi.com (Susan Salek)
Subject: Looking for a lawyer in the NJ/PA area
Organization: 3M Health Information Systems, Wallingford, CT
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 16:47:19 GMT

Just like the subject says... I am looking for a lawyer in Poconos area 
of PA or in Southern NJ to assist legalities of buying a house and 
getting wills drawn up.  I am specifically looking for a lesbian, gay 
or bisexual lawyer or a lawyer that is lesbigay-positive. 

Please e-mail me at salek@hsi.com with any info.  Thanks.

Susan
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Susan M. Salek                          You can spend precious time
3M Health Information Systems           walking in your perfect line
Wallingford, CT   USA                   But I don't hear that drum
salek@hsi.com                           I'm looking for something else...
                                                        --- Melissa Etheridge
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: The Shoe Fits (was Re: Social Democracy)
Date: 6 Nov 1992 15:48:24 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <mattm-061192131802@mcmelmon.apple.com> 
mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon) writes:

> And I've always depended on the kindness of strangers.

OK, boys, put the straightjacket on him and let's
get him out of here.

Arne
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik)
Subject: Re: Coming out to parents.
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 00:25:33 GMT
Organization: (getting there)


I wrote:
  >>If you don't have anywhere else to start, and there is no P-FLAG
  >>group near your parents, try connecting with someone locally (local
  >>to you or to them) whom you expect to be sympathetic and ask advice.
  >>I'm talking about a doctor or a minister or a school counselor--
  >>someone who might have heard of a local support group.  This is
  >>especially true if you don't live where your parents do.

jrd@frame.com (James Drew) writes:
 >Of course, it depends on what your parents do for a living.  In my case,
 >my Dad is a minister.  When people come to him with problems, he counsels
 >them.  But he felt that he had no one to go to with this problem, when I
 >came out, to get the same sort of counseling.  "Physician, heal thyself"
 >doesn't always work.

Well, my father's a doctor.  (Speaking of physicians.)  Who you
choose depends on who you feel comfortable and what your sense is of
people with whom your parents might feel comfortable.  But I was
less trying to suggest someone who might counsel your parents than I
was trying to suggest someone who might know where you could find a
support group local to them.  

My father would certainly not have taken it well if I'd asked the
local rabbi to speak to him.  On the other hand, he did have a great
deal of respect for the man who'd been my guidance counselor when I
was in high school, so this is probably the person I would have
approached.  


-- 

  Mara Chibnik
  mara@panix.com                Life is too important to be taken seriously.

Xref: sparky soc.motss:47452 alt.politics.homosexuality:7182 co.politics:1980
From: dise@decoy.uoregon.edu (David Casti)
Subject: Oregon: Call for ideas
Reply-To: dise@oregon.uoregon.edu
Organization: University of Oregon Network Services
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 92 23:35:43 GMT

There has been no word from the Campaign for a Hate Free Oregon (formerly No  
on 9) folks about what they'll do now because their steering committee hasn't  
met yet.

Their steering committee will meet tomorrow afternoon.  Anyone who has any  
ideas or suggestions about how CHFO can fight the OCA, please write them down  
and fax them to:

	Campaign for a Hate Free Oregon
	Attn: Steering Committee
	(503) 235-9627

If you would like a reply, include your name, address and phone.
From: roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Lesbian Visibility on Roseanne
Date: 12 Nov 92 20:48:18 GMT
Reply-To: roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips)
Organization: Quantime Ltd, London (software for market research)

In article <1992Nov12.011411.11469@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>,
mritchie@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Michael S Ritchie) writes:
> Re: Roseanne, does anyone know if Sandra Bernhard's movie _Without
> You I'm Nothing_ is out on tape yet?

Yep.
Just nip down to the video store in West Hampstead.
-- 
Roger Phillips                            roger@quantime.co.uk
"*Poot, Marcel* (b Vilvoorde, 7 May 1901). Belgian composer."
-- Grove Concise Dictionary of Music (1988)
From: aberson@enh.nist.gov
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: RE: Size of LGB Vote
Date: 5 Nov 92 23:58:39 GMT
Organization: NIST

In a previous article, rjwill6@pbsdts.sdcrc.pacbell.com (Rod Williams) wrote:
>Since Harry Britt has retired, Roberta
>Achtenberg (a possible Clinton appointee come January) and
>Carole Migden are now the only out lesbians on the Board of
>Supes.

I didn't know Britt was a lesbian.

       Sim Aberson   Ft. Lauderdale, FL   aberson%3328.span@sdsc.edu
"It's always Beach Party Barbie, or Malibu Barbie....  That shit does not
prepare you for the true horror of a real woman's life.  Where is Single,
Abused, Trailer-Park Barbie?"             - Roseanne Arnold
From: laura@hoptoad.uucp (Laura Creighton)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Colorado's Amendment 2
Date: 8 Nov 92 13:23:53 GMT
Reply-To: laura@hoptoad.UUCP (Laura Creighton)
Organization: Nebula Consultants in San Francisco

In article <1992Nov5.102148.16303@lclark.edu> snodgras@lclark.edu (Bil Snodgrass) writes:
>In article <mattm-041192131417@mcmelmon.apple.com> mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon) writes:
>>In article <1992Nov4.185406.3267@tc.cornell.edu>,
>>shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore) wrote:
>>
>>> Sorry Andrew, but your company contributes to the Colorado
>>> tax base.  I intend to boycott Colorado and all products
>>> made in Colorado (to the extent that I know about them),
>>> too.
>>
>>Translation:  "Sorry if it puts you out of a job, but my principles 
>>have been offended.  And besides, I don't work for a living, I
>>think."
>>
>>*X*
>
>
>War is war!  This policy of all out boycoot has just helped get
>Arizona to pass a bill to start recongizing MLK day!
>
>Bil


Not that war.  The $$$ war was about where the Superbowl is.
that's worth lots of $$$$$$$$$$.  

If you happen to have influence on where a Superbowl happens,
suggest that it does not happen in Denver.
-- 
    Since Ryan White was buried in April 1990, his grave has been vandalized
    *more than* four times.

    (this news courtesy Phil Paxton ipwp400@indycms.bitnet)

Laura Creighton 
toad@toad.com
hoptoad!laura
From: aberson@enh.nist.gov
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: RE: Colorado Addresses
Date: 5 Nov 92 21:29:09 GMT
Organization: NIST

In a previous article, anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) wrote about
letter writing as a result of the passage of 2 in Colorado:

>I would like to see more such addresses

Last night I had a lot of nervous energy.  I decided that all politicians
must make a stand.  I have decided to write letters to every one
of my elected politicians and let them know how I feel.

President-elect Clinton (does anyone have an address?)
Vice-President-elect Gore. (ditto)
Florida's two US Senators (cowardly Graham and conservative Mack)
My US Representative (Judge Alcee Hastings)
Governor (Chiles) and all elected members of the Florida cabinet.
My state senator and representative.
Broward County commissioners.
Broward County school board members.
Broward County Port Authority.
Dania city commissioners.

I will be busy for awhile, but the time is well, worth it, I think.
Some of these people probably have never gotten a letter on this
subject at all.


       Sim Aberson   Ft. Lauderdale, FL   aberson%3328.span@sdsc.edu
"It's always Beach Party Barbie, or Malibu Barbie....  That shit does not
prepare you for the true horror of a real woman's life.  Where is Single,
Abused, Trailer-Park Barbie?"             - Roseanne Arnold
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Gerbiling and acceptance of other peoples' info. !!
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 92 14:27:33 GMT


In article
<1992Nov6.134352.29920@sun0.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
gsmith@clio.uucp (Eugen W. Schmidt) writes:

>Well, joke away, but this is serious.  I seen an actual movie of
>Bigfoot.

Think he might have been one of *your* Republicans, Herr Schmidt?

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
<>  <>  <> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <>  <>  <>
From: mickw@autodesk.com (Mick Washbrook)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Apple's Stand on CO:2
Date: 11 Nov 92 00:24:47 GMT

In article <mattm-091192121224@mcmelmon.apple.com>, mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon) writes:
> Note:  The following is taken from an internal memo sent to
> the Lambda Mailing list (Apple's glb organization).  This is
> *not* an official statement from Apple:

[Contents deleted.]

Do you make a habit of posting Apple's internal memos to the net?


--
Death to all fanatics!!

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch)
Subject: Re: Pink dollar, red circle slash...
Organization: Advanced Decision Systems; a div of Booz, Allen & Hamilton
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 08:01:17 GMT

czmt@gibbs.oit.unc.edu (Season Marie Taylor) wrote: 
->try wearing a button on your backpack, or whatever you use to lug your
->books around.  I have freedom rings on mine, and many of my friends wear
->pink triangles on theirs.  You don't have to switch it around, and you are
->still identified as a queer.

... ditto for wearing a badge; if you're required to wear a badge at
your place  of employment then decorate it: put freedom rings on the
chain (if you wear your badge on a chain for convenience), and put a
little pink triangle sticker on the front of the badge.  it works
wonders, and the freedom rings are a conversation-starter.

--
# henry mensch / booz, allen & hamilton, inc.  / <henry@ads.com>
# "fight the real enemy."  -- sinead o'connor, and many others.
#     for information on the league for programming freedom, 
#                     write to lpf@uunet.uu.net
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.bi
From: miket@hermes.tcs.com (Michael Turner nmscore Assoc.)
Subject: Re: Another Culturally Elite Idea
Organization: Teknekron Communications Inc.
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 05:17:05 GMT

In article <1992Nov8.160111.20230@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> lschmers@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Lawrence S Schmersal) writes:
>In article <1dgqbeINNs7q@plts.uucp> tal@plts.uucp (Tom Limoncelli) writes:
>>The Republicans have been using the phrase "Culturally Elite" a lot
>>this last 6 months as a code-word for the liberal hollywood, liberal
>>media, and les/bi/gays.  Of course, the implication is that all of
>>hollywood and the media are h-o-m-o-s-e-x-u-a-l-s....

Huh?  Hollywood's got a ways to go before it can live up to even the
slightest shred of this implication.  Why didn't _Paris Is Burning_ get
nominated for best documentary?  Why didn't _My Own Private Idaho_
get nominated for best feature film?

I think the Republicans were just being an elite trying to find another 
elite for the voters to turn on.  Obviously, it didn't work, and probably
backfired.  But to say that it was ALL basically pandering to homophobia
leaves out some more major motivations.

I nominate your post in the category of "Most Homocentric".
---
Michael Turner
miket@tcs.com
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore)
Subject: Re: Mouse Balls
Organization: Cornell Theory Center
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 23:09:51 GMT

In article <mattm-101192100521@mcmelmon.apple.com> mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon) writes:
>Since January, darling.  Guess you're too cutting edge for me.
>But tell me, Ellen, if the 'memo' is very old, and very tired,
>and you were in the know long ago:

>  what does that make you?

Trust McMelon to think it insulting to call someone an adult.
Kind of like that Solvay idiot thinking it insulting to call
someone a woman.

Well, McMoron, since you care so very much about the things
that Ellen is, you can add 'well-liked' to the list.  You
should be so afflicted.
--
           Hate is not a family value.  Boycott Colorado

       Melinda Shore - Cornell Theory Center - shore@tc.cornell.edu
From: guest@veronica.cs.wisc.edu (Guest account)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: address of Colorado Association of Commerce and Industry
Summary: Aspen/Denver addresses
Keywords: CO-2
Date: 5 Nov 92 15:16:10 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.guest.720976570
Reply-To: timdude@saavik.cs.wisc.edu
Organization: U of Wisconsin Madison - Computer Sciences

Denver:
1445 Market St
Denver CO  80202-1727

Aspen:
425 Rio Grande Pl
Aspen CO  81611

-Tim Petlock
timdude@saavik.cs.wisc.edu

All you need is a three-dollar-bill and a dream.
From: mdrayton@sr.hp.com (Mike Drayton)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Genetic oversimplification of homosexuality.
Date: 5 Nov 92 22:15:13 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Clara Division
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1.1 PL5

Michael A. Thomas (mike@gordian.com) writes:

>   Apparently, dear old dad doesn't see the whole range of gay people.
> There are an awful lot of stupid and tacky gay people -- just like
> the general populace.

   ...and then goes on to provide an example (himself):

>   I like the part about child rearing though. It does seem that
> people who have kids do have a tendency to be reduced to their
> child's level. You know, the goo-goo baa-baa thang. Quite 
> embarrassing really.
 
Apparently he's forgotten that a number of us here _do_ have
children, and I, for one, disagree with his description of us.
My turn to get pissed off.
 
Mike Drayton      mdrayton@sr.hp.com       Hewlett-Packard Co.
                                           Santa Rosa, California
From: markm@ogicse.ogi.edu (Mark Morrissey)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: ***Accessories!!!***
Date: 11 Nov 92 01:46:31 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.45633
Organization: Oregon Graduate Institute (formerly OGC), Beaverton, OR

thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance) writes:

>What's your favorite kind? Handbags? Belts? Shoes? Watches? Jewelry?
>Any favorite pieces?

Will first names suffice or do you want full names?


--mark
--
Mark Morrissey           One Hatred to rule them all.  One Hatred to find them.
markm@cse.ogi.edu        One Hatred to bring them all and in the darkness bind
                         them.  In the land of Bigotry where the Shadows lie.

Newsgroups: soc.motss