HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dlab_macmill@winkle.bhpese.oz.au
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware
Subject: Re: What is a Weitek coprocessor?
Date: 13 Apr 92 10:31:40 +1000
Organization: BHP Information Technology, Newcastle

Hi everyone,

	I have recently purchased a 33Mhz 486 DX (optima) machine. I noticed in
the mother board users manual than the board has an upgrade socket for a
Weitek coprocessor. Could someone please explain to me what this is seeing that
the 486 DX has a built-in coprocessor anyway!

							Thanks in advance,
							
							Stephen

-------------------------<dlab_macmill@winkle.bhpese.oz.au>---------------------
| Stephen Macmillan			|				       |
| BHP Information Technology		| "An unbreakable toy is useful for    |
| Newcastle, Australia			|  breaking other toys."	       |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware
From: pjh@mccc.edu (Pete Holsberg)
Subject: Re: VEGA MOTHERBOARDS AND BLUE DOLPHIN QUESTIONS
Organization: The College On The Other Side Of Route One
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 19:02:04 GMT

In article <1992Apr10.183821.29121@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> bprk_ss@troi.cc.rochester.edu (Brian Park) writes:
=In <1992Apr3.170645.19046@icf.hrb.com> tag@icf.hrb.com (Thomas A. Glass) writes:
=
=>DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY EXPERIENCE WITH WITH VEGA MOTHERBOARDS?

No, but I saw one today. Made in the U.S.A.!

Pete
-- 
Prof. Peter J. Holsberg      Mercer County Community College
Voice: 609-586-4800          Engineering Technology, Computers and Math
FAX: 609-586-6944            1200 Old Trenton Road, Trenton, NJ 08690
Internet: pjh@mccc.edu       Trenton Computer Festival: April 11-12, 1992
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware
From: paolo@hpmcrf (Paolo Fontani)
Subject: Re: To all Gateway 486-33 and 486DX2-50 owners
Organization: HP Cardiology Business Unit - McMinnville, OR
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 00:47:52 GMT


ANDERSON@UCF1VM.BITNET (Eric C. Anderson) writes:
> 

	[many comments deleted]

Basically, I agree with Eric on all counts.  I recently ordered a
486/33 tower, equivalent to his, except that I did not order the
Fax/Modem card.  I am very happy with the system and would order from
Gateway again.  I ordered with them initially because they had decent
prices (although not the best) and because they have a good reputation
(several of my friends have Gateways and are generally happy with
them).

I do have one problem, though.  The monitor seems to have failed in
some odd way.  I am in the process of working things out with Gateway
the get another one (a replacement is on its way now).

Tech. support has been good and my only complaint is that sometimes I
have to hold for a long time (30 mins or more).  After about 10-15
mins they ask you if you want to leave a message and have them call
back, but that does not work very well because when they do call back
I cannot get at my system (i.e. I am at work and the system is at
home) and the call is useless that way.  So I just hold.

All in all, though, things are good.

One thing that caught my eye is something that Eric wrote:

> 
> I got right through to Tech Support to report my modem problem. They
> were very friendly and helpful. They recently lowered the price on the
> system I bought, and since I ordered within a certain period of time of
> the price decrease, they are going to refund me $145.00 :-)
> 

Please tell us more about this refund!  I bought my system in early
March and I think I might be entitled to that refund too.  What is
that "certain period of time" you talk about, and what was the price
difference exactly?

Hope this helps.

	Paolo Fontani
	McMinnville, OR, USA
From: harlan@netcom.com (Harlan Lau)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware
Subject: mailorder software
Date: 17 Apr 92 18:14:07 GMT
Article-I.D.: netcom.a_2javf.harlan
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

This is probably an FAQ but here goes.

Could people suggest reliable places to mailorder sw from?
If nothing else, I want to avoid the 8.25% sales tax here
and shipping is generally cheap or free.

Also, places NOT to mailorder sw from.

Thanks.

Harlan Lau
harlan@rambus.com



-- 
Harlan Lau
UUCP: harlan@mips.com
USPS: Rambus Inc., 2465 Latham St, Mountain View, CA 94040, 415-903-3895
From: bdellert@next-6.gac.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware
Subject: Re: Video Upgrade
Date: 15 Apr 92 15:19:39 GMT
Article-I.D.: gacvx2.1992Apr15.091940.934
Distribution: usa

In article <1992Apr14.204257.12700@Princeton.EDU>  writes:
> I'm planning to upgrade my Paradise 512k SuperVGA card to something with
> more color capabilities, and the Boca XVGA 1meg looks like about the
> best value around.

Screw the Boca, and get the Diamond Stealth.  At $280 (street, with 1Meg), it  
won a best buy from both PC World and PC Magazine.  It has the S3 chip, with  
VESA compatibility (tho flawed in early versions--S3's fault), and supports  
both 1024x768x256 and 640x480x32k (along with others).  As for speed, well it  
beats the pants off my ATI Ultra--in fact, I dare say that, overall, the  
Diamond Stealth is the fastest SuperVGA card around (faster even than TIGA)!   
I've seen bechmarks (in the aforementioned magazines--recent issues) to back me  
up.

And if the Stealth is out of your league, the Diamond SpeedStar Hi-Color is  
also a great buy.  At $150, or less, it is slower than the Stealth, but  
additionally supports 800x600x32k (because it uses the TSENG chip set, instead  
of the S3).
From: dlow@pollux.svale.hp.com (Danny Low)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 17:56:44 GMT
Subject: Re: 386 AMI BIOS doesn't recognize the memory above 640K... Help....
Organization: Hewlett Packard CPCD, Sunnyvale CA
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware

>(Jeff Mertz) 
>A small mystery I have encountered is that when I installed an additional 2MB
>of SIPPs, the AMI BIOS did not recognize them (still said I had 3MB).
>After many hours of frustration, I finally gave it the INS boot.  The manual
>claims that this wipes out all CMOS configuration.  Well, after that, my
>system performed a memory count up to the full 5MB and I was on my way.
>The wierd part was that all of the other CMOS setup data was retained, and I
>didn't have to re-configure my machine as the manual said.

Most BIOS require you to explicitly change the memory size in the CMOS
before they will use it. Most likely what happened when you did an
INS boot is it forced the BIOS to recount the memory and copy the
default CMOS values from a ROM into CMOS. If you had made any
changes from the defaults, you would have lost the changes.

			   Danny Low
    "Question Authority and the Authorities will question You"
	   Valley of Hearts Delight, Silicon Valley
	     HP NPCD   dlow@pollux.svale.hp.com
From: beorn@diku.dk (Bj|rn B. Stancke)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware
Subject: Re: TSENG ET4000AX SVGA CARD PROBLEMS
Date: 15 Apr 92 10:14:07 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, U of Copenhagen

MED40030@NUSVM.BITNET (David Cheong) writes:

>In text mode, coloured blocks of text appear and eventually the system hangs.
>In graphics mode, erasure after redraw is incomplete, and the computer hangs.
>         I have a 386DX-25 with Soundblaster v2, 1990 BIOS (with no password

  Well, David. It looks like your BUS speed is too high. I have had the same
experience in an AT 12MHz, and switching to 6MHz removed the problem com-
pletely. (I know - slower computer-system). Some graphics cards (of the same
brand) has troubles. If you still have your warranty left, try getting a
new card, it might work better in your system. I"m using another ET-4000 based
graphics card in a 486DX-33MHz computer, so it is not the BUS speed, alone that
causes the troubles.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
This article was written by          | Sorry about my bad english, but if
beorn@freja.diku.dk, in real life    | i wrote in my own language, you
Bj|rn B. Stancke, a poor computer-   | probably wouldn"t understand any-
science student, living in Denmark   | thing at all...
(Europe).                            |
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Note: My editor, protocol, terminal or whatever strips the <CHR-39>, so i
      have to use " instead of the normal single-quotes.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware
From: kevin@kosman.uucp (Kevin O'Gorman)
Subject: What's the real story on Connor 209MB CP3204?
Organization: Vital Software Services, Oxnard, CA
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 18:48:59 GMT

I bought two different systems, both with Connor CP3204F IDE hard drives,
usually stated as 209 MB drives.  The two different systems had the drives
defined slightly differently to the CMOS, which makes me wonder what's
going on.  The setups were

     System 1     System 2
cyls      683          998
heads      16           16
sectors    38           26

The resulting capacities were slightly different, though both were roughly
202.7 MB:
blocks 415264       415168

This is a half-height 3.5" drive, so I hardly believe the 16 heads anyway,
so something really funny is going on.  Can anyone explain all this?
-- 
Kevin O'Gorman ( kevin@kosman.UUCP, kevin%kosman.uucp@nrc.com )
voice: 805-984-8042 Vital Computer Systems, 5115 Beachcomber, Oxnard, CA  93035
Non-Disclaimer: my boss is me, and he stands behind everything I say.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware
From: ashok@xlab1.uucp (Ashok)
Subject: Re: Bashing (was Re: Gateway 2000 - $195 v.32bis modems?????)
Keywords: Okay, enough already
Reply-To: ashok@reed.UUCP (Ashok)
Organization: IBM AWD, Austin, TX
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 92 13:12:09 GMT

I saw the news clip on Gateway and it struck me that it more like an assembly
line operation. I also have a Gateway 2000(bought in Dec,91). I got my system
earlier then expected and they also arranged for replacing the motherboard(FPU exception
problem). While I had to wait a while for getting the motherboard replaced, I am fairly 
happy with the system and the quality of the response.

From all the bashing on the net, it seems to me that ppl. who order the standard
configurations from Gateway are far happier then the more selective types...maybe
it's got something to do with the way they operate(see above).


Ashok
yerneni@cactus.org
From: IP05996@portland.caps.maine.edu (Rene Braun)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware
Subject: Re: Signs of a Bad Monitor
Date: 8 Apr 92 00:54:28 GMT
Organization: University of Maine System

OOPS - I wanted to say 15 pins for VGA and 8 pins for EGA.

Rene Braun
From: gt0009b@prism.gatech.EDU (Delawalla, Rahim)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware
Subject: Hard Disk Management
Date: 6 Apr 92 06:05:09 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

Are there any FTP sites from which I can get some programs
that will manage my hard disk?  What I'm looking for in
particular is a program that will reduce fragmentation on
my hard disk.  I have a 386SX, 125 MB Hard disk, 1M RAM.

rahim
-- 
Delawalla, Rahim		Internet:  gt0009b@prism.gatech.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware
From: brent@cco.caltech.edu (Brent R. Eubanks)
Subject: Re: What is a Weitek coprocessor?
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 07:41:49 GMT

I am also curious.  Please post answer.


-- 
Brent Eubanks                "The meek shall inherit the Earth --
brent@cco.caltech.edu         The rest of us will go to the stars." -- R.H.
--
From: mullens@jamsun.ic.ornl.gov (James A. Mullens)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware
Subject: Re: Bashing (was Re: Gateway 2000 - $195 v.32bis modems?????)
Keywords: Okay, enough already
Date: 7 Apr 92 19:57:22 GMT
Article-I.D.: ornl.1992Apr7.195722.26953
Organization: Oak Ridge National Laboratory

In article <1992Apr7.164514.23387@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>, berger@atropa (Mike Berger) writes:
|> ncc1701@madoka.its.rpi.edu (Mark O. Chadwick) writes:
|> 
|> >A couple of people (actually, several people) have complained about
|> >Gateway's "lousy service" and "untruthfulness."  I noticed that most of these
|> >people haven't gotten out into the real world yet (i.e. are still in
|> >college or somesuch).
|> 
|> >I hate to tell you guys this, but welcome to the real world.  You'll 
|> >find that a HECK of a lot of stuff works just like this--people
|> >try to do their best, tell you what they know, and it turns out
|> >to be wrong.  It'll even happen to YOU, and somebody's gonna flame your
|> >ass off for it.  They'll claim you were lying, that you knew the
|> >real situation, and you should be sued etc etc etc...Well, 
|> >hopefully it won't be that bad.
|> *----
|> I wouldn't mind an occasional slip-up.  When it happens consistently,
|> then it's clear that it's not a case of "doing their best".  It's
|> outright lying.  When your shipping date goes by, and another
|> shipping date slips, and yet again, then somebody isn't trying
|> very hard. 
|> 
|> >Also, there will be times when you order something, and suddenly
|> >it's out of stock, unbeknownst to the poor soul on the other end
|> >of the telephone line (see above).  So shipment will take longer then
|> >originally expected.
|> *----
|> Such times are VERY rare.  Most operations have a computerized inventory
|> and it would be quite a coincidence to have somebody else order the
|> only remaining stock of some item at the exact same time you do.  And
|> if that happens, shouldn't the seller let the buyer know right away?
|> 

I and many other people recently called Gateway and requested a new
motherboard because the Micronics Gemini board (or the Intel CPU on it)
hung the system on floating zero divide.  I got my new Gemini board on
Friday, just days after requesting it.  I have to award Gateway points
on keeping their customers happy, and I wonder if they had to put off
shipping new systems to new customers in order to satisfy these
replacement motherboard requests?  (The new board works well).

I know 4 people with Gateway machines, and none ever complained
that a Gateway rep lied to them.  WRT shipping dates, the people I
know got theirs before the promised date.  WRT your problem, yes,
I'd be mad too, but I do suspect that Gateway is doing their best.

jim mullens
mullens@jamsun.ic.ornl.gov (128.219.64.31)
voice: 615-574-5564
From: jm602s1066@sycom.mi.org (James Mallory)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware
Subject: Re: Help!! SoundblasterPro not working...
Date: 12 Apr 92 21:18:38 GMT
Organization: Michigan Information eXchange

mm352549@longs.LANCE.ColoState.EDU (Monte Mcdonald) writes:
>  I recently purchased the SoundBlasterPro and found that it will not
>function on my system.  In fact, my system will not function
>with the SBP card.  I know it conflicts with my video card which is a
>SMART EVGA card.  This is some generic "enhanced" VGA
>card that uses a TRIDENT chip.  I've tried changing I/O address,
>interrupt # , and  even DMA channel.  I checked all the settings
>beforehand in my system configuration and there shouldn't have been a
>problem.  My computer is a Packard Bell 386DX@25Mhz.
>Packard Bell Tech support puts me on hold forever and then promises to
>return my call and doesn't.  Creative Labs says to call 
>Packard Bell because they've never had this problem.  I know  it's not
>the SBP card because it's the second one I've tried with 
>the same results.  Right now I have an OAK Technologis VGA card that
>I've borrowed and everything works fine with default
>settings.   If anyone has experience anything similar or has any
>suggestions please E-mail me.  I would be forever greatful.  I
>really want to get back to super VGA soon without buying another card.

Your not going to want to hear this but I think that your VGA card is causing
the problem.  Go get a ATI or Orchid (something namebrand no no-namers) board
I don't think the SBP is the problem.

-- C-UseNet V0.55c
            Jim Mallory, a CNE and a Randiod (What a Combination!)

  '...I wanted to have real conversations with people with bubbles on their
 heads...I want to sit next to Wookies...jawas...and all kinds of robots." --
   Carrie Fisher on "Star Wars"  (Even though I would of swore that she was
                           referring to the 'net!)
From: edwong@csa.bu.edu (Edward Wong)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware
Subject: Re: Which 486 computer to get?
Date: 11 Apr 92 01:32:56 GMT
	<1992Apr7.093644.24371@wndrsvr.la.ca.us>
	<1992Apr8.050807.348@msus1.msus.edu>
Reply-To: edwong@csa.bu.edu
Distribution: usa
Organization: Boston University
In-reply-to: l00017@eeyore.stcloud.msus.edu's message of 8 Apr 92 11:08:06 GMT

yes, insight is a fine company.  I have bought my 486/33 from them and it
works fine.  The only minor problem with the insight computers is that the
keyboard isn't really good, kinda sticky if you know what I mean.
Everything turns out fine, if I will change my keyboard it will be better.
--
8)
  _               _     | user's name:  Edward Wong
 |_ |\ \   / /\  |_) |\ | ARPA:     edwong@csa.bu.edu	
 |_ |/  \^/ /==\ | \ |/ | UUCP:     csa.bu.edu!edwong
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Friday, 17 Apr 1992 02:20:24 CDT
From: <U58288@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware
Subject: Re: Intel 486 DX-50 versus DX2-50
Distribution: usa

In article <1992Apr14.173503.27457@mccc.edu>, pjh@mccc.edu (Pete Holsberg) says:
>
>In article <57342@cup.portal.com> sbixby@cup.portal.com (Steven W Bixby)      :
>writes
>=Does anyone know the story on the difference between the two 50MHZ 486's?
>=
>=Some of the MO houses like ZEOS and Gateway are starting to offer 50mhz
>=systems, but they offer either the DX-50 or the DX2-50 - what is the
>=difference between the DX and the DX2???
>
>The Intel rep who was at TCF last weekend told me (if I remember
>correctly) that the DX2 is a chip that ordinarily runs at 25MHz, but can
>be speeded up to run 50MHz internally, while the DX-50 is a true 50MHz
>chip. I inferred that memory accesses with the "2" would be slower than
>with the true 50 MHz MPU.
>
I believe the DX2 also lacks the onchip math coprocessor!
From: gt1753d@prism.gatech.EDU (Bob King)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware
Subject: Sound Blaster voc problems
Keywords: Sound Blaster voc voice Soundblaster
Date: 17 Apr 92 14:48:06 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology




   When playing a 'tone' voc file my sound blaster 'skips' and 'clicks' 
at irregular intervals.  The 'tone' voc file is just a repeated string which
is which its length is related to the frequency.  

   I can't figure out why it is doing this and how to fix it.  Putting the
voc file on a ram drive makes no difference (so it is not the drive access
times).  I remember somebody having similar problems on this news group a
while back.  Does anybody know how to solve this problem?



Thanks!


-- 
Bob King
Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
uucp:	  ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt1753d
Internet: gt1753d@prism.gatech.edu
From: bartonh@tekeda.PEN.TEK.COM (Barton T Hickman)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware
Subject: Re: Intel 486 DX-50 versus DX2-50
Date: 17 Apr 92 18:53:15 GMT
Reply-To: bartonh@tekeda.pen.tek.com
Distribution: usa
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton,  OR.

In article <1992Apr14.173503.27457@mccc.edu> pjh@mccc.edu (Pete Holsberg) writes:
>The Intel rep who was at TCF last weekend told me (if I remember
>correctly) that the DX2 is a chip that ordinarily runs at 25MHz, but can
>be speeded up to run 50MHz internally, while the DX-50 is a true 50MHz
>chip. I inferred that memory accesses with the "2" would be slower than
>with the true 50 MHz MPU.
>
Here's what I've heard (and read from Intel 486 hardware manual):  The
486/50DX2 runs 50MHz internally, but uses a 25MHz motherboard.  As long as
the 486/50DX2 gets 'hits' on it's 8k internal cache, it continues to run
at this speed.  According to the intel manual, the hit rate on this cache
is greater than 80% (usually ~95%--there were multiple plots for various
types of programs.) The 486/50DX2 has all the good stuff like coprocessors,
integer pipelining, etc...  486/50DX actually requires a 50MHz motherboard 
and, therefore, a PC using it is probably a lot more pricey.  I heard
this was Intel's latest attempt to beat back 486 cloners (ie AMD).
Although the 486/50DX will be slightly faster (~10%) than the 486/50DX2, the
486/50DX2 is about 35% faster than the 486/33DX2 and seems like a
better buy right now.

Bart
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware
Subject: Problem with IBM optical drive with a ADAPTEC SCSI card
From: nseth@desire.wright.edu
Date: 16 Apr 92 12:52:20 EST
Organization: Wright State University 


I have a GATEWAY's 486-based system. I wanted to install an optical disk
purchased from IBM onto that system. The system has an ADAPTEC SCSI card. It
seems that the ADAPTEC SCSI card does not support the IBM drive. Does anybody
have any suggestion how to get around this problem (except replacing the card)?
Or is there any Optical disk available which is supported by the ADAPTEC SCSI
card.

Thanks

Nitin Seth
nseth@cs.wright.edu

Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware,houston.wanted,tx.wanted
From: david@kessner.denver.co.us (David Kessner)
Subject: Re: 386 chip?
Organization: Kessner, Inc.
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 18:28:44 GMT

In article <1992Apr9.082225@se44.wg2.waii.com> khx@se44.wg2.waii.com writes:
>I have traced my problems on one of my PCs to a bad 386DX-25
>cpu chip.
>The cost of a new motherboard (386DX;0k;AMI;25MHz) is
>about $300. (sounds high!?!) I can re-use my SIMMs but not my 287 since thenew board only slots the 387. SO, I would just like to get a
>new 386DX25 for my board. Any 386DX sellers (if this is legal)? 

There are several issues here...

First, most of todays 386's do not support the 287 math chip.  Early on in
the 386's life, there was no 387.  As a temp measure, Intel put support for
the 287 in the chip.  After the 387 came out (and Intel had to fix bugs in
the 386), support for the 287 was removed.  This is also why most motherboards
today do not have a 287 socket (even if the MB was made when 387's were >$500).
Use of one of these newer 386's would probably mean removing the 287.

The price of $300 is normal for the type of place that you 'shopped' at. 
Prices vary greatly depending on where you go and the type of service you 
want/expect.  Lower prices can be found elsewhere, if it's worth your time
and bother.

You did not mention how you figured it is the CPU.  Because of this, I am
forced to ask the obvious, "Are you sure?"  There are several MB related 
problems that could 'look' like a CPU problem.  I also have to wonder, "If the
CPU is bad, could there be something else that's bad also?"  The answer is
"probably".  

Because of these things, I'd reccomend that you get a new MB anyway.  If you 
shop around you can find a 386/33 or 40mhz for fairly cheap (make sure that
your SIMM's will work before buying).  Sure, your 287 will not work but it 
won't work anyway-- a 387 compatable costs only $100-150 these days.

-- 
David Kessner - david@kessner.denver.co.us              Reunite Pangea!
I'm lost in Aurora, Colorado!  (303) 745-6577
do { ... } while( jones);
From: pjh@mccc.edu (P. J. Holsberg)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware
Subject: C:drive error
Date: 14 Apr 92 19:37:36 GMT
Organization: The College on the Other Side of U. S. 1

I just swapped my 386/16 for a 386/33 and when I boot, I get two beeps and
	"C:drive error
	 Press <F1> to resume"

When I press F1, I get two more beeps and then the boot continues flawlessly.

My HD is type 47 (Maxtor XT2190): 1224 cyls, 15 hds, 17 sectors. The
BIOS is AMI 1990, Rev C1.

Any clues as to what might be wrong?

Thanks,
Pete
-- 
Prof. Peter J. Holsberg      Mercer County Community College
Voice: 609-586-4800          Engineering Technology, Computers and Math
FAX: 609-586-6944            1200 Old Trenton Road, Trenton, NJ 08690
Internet: pjh@mccc.edu       Trenton Computer Festival: April 17-18, 1993