HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: wegeng@xerox.com (Don Wegeng)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: Canoe Racks?
Date: 16 Dec 92 19:55:28 GMT
Reply-To: wegeng@xerox.com
Organization: Xerox Corp., Henrietta, NY

In article 27872@linus.mitre.org, drodman@pacific.mitre.org (David B Rodman) writes:
>The Yakama racks come with a plastic coated metal bar which does not lend itself to 
>tye downs, I feel it doesn't give enough friction. So I replaced the cross bar with 
>a wood 2x4 cut to the right length. I needed to drill a hole and a longer carriage 
>bolt, but was able to use the rest of the hardware from the Yakama kit.

An equal, but less expensive solution is to purchase Yakama Towers, which
consist of only the gutter mounts.  You add your own cross bars (2x4s or
whatever).  This is much less expensive than purchasing the rack system.

/Don
wegeng.henr801c@xerox
From: brianj@bedrock.cs.umd.edu (Brian Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: Legs falling asleep while 'yaking
Date: 17 Dec 92 15:04:01 GMT
Organization: Computer Science, Univ. of MD, College Park, MD 20742
In-reply-to: daveni@northstar's message of 16 Dec 92 19:45:26 GMT

My legs ( or a leg, but more than just a foot:-) fall asleep on
flatwater due to lack of activity in my opinion.

The solution is simple - AVOID FLATWATER AT ALL COSTS!!!:-)))
A high degree of fear seems to unroll nerves all the way down to the
tips of my toenails, whether I'm sitting on them or not!

Brian
--
Brian Johnson                                       Computer Science Department
brianj@cs.umd.edu                                        University of Maryland
(301) 405-2725                                           College Park, Md 20742

  ...there are no strangers in this world, only friends who have never met...
From: mikeq@freddy.CNA.TEK.COM (Mike Quigley)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: Giardia
Date: 17 Dec 92 21:44:55 GMT
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Redmond,  OR.

In article <1992Dec17.140842.23229@dg-rtp.dg.com> morgan@nolichucky.rtp.dg.com (Keith Morgan) writes:
>from crystal clear mtn. streams.  I think you have to ingest a
>fair sized population of the lil' critters to get the trots, though.

Actually, injesting only a few cysts can give you giardia. Many people do get
infested, but few get ill.

Mike 

Xref: sparky rec.boats.paddle:2161 news.groups:24075
From: rsk@gynko.circ.upenn.edu (Rich Kulawiec)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle,news.groups
Subject: Re: RE-POST ROWING NEWSGROUP
Date: 11 Dec 92 17:08:04 GMT
Followup-To: news.groups
Organization: GSP

Followups have been redirected to news.groups, which is the only
appropriate place for discussions about proposed new newsgroups.

In article <1992Dec11.162108.9228@ra.msstate.edu> dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu (Donald R. Newcomb) writes:
>I am sorry to say this, but I guess this split in necessary. In the
>recent past whenever a rower posted something to rec.boats.paddle
>he would be raked over the coals by anti-rowing bigots.

This is not true.  *Some* of the articles have met with a quick and
forceful response, but not all.  Those which insulted whitewater
paddlers were flamed; those which consisted of discussion on various
topics of interest to rowers were not.  Surely when one posts to
a group founded by whitewater paddlers, this should not be surprising.

However, I do agree that a separate group for rowers is an excellent idea,
and I'll almost certainly vote for it, whatever its name.

By the way, I'm not so much an anti-rowing bigot as an anti-flatwater bigot.

---Rsk
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: jsc@sequent.com (J. Scott Carr)
Subject: Re: Dry Suit Dangers
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 92 22:36:53 GMT

In article <6555@pdxgate.UUCP> gerry@me.pdx.edu (Gerry Recktenwald) writes:
>Subject: Dry Suit Dangers
>From: Dieter Christensen, dc22@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu
>Date: 10 Dec 92 23:18:05 GMT
>In article <1992Dec10.231805.25604@news.columbia.edu> Dieter
>Christensen, dc22@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu writes:
>>
>>I mean, what happens when you're paddling along happily and for some
>>reason or other your drysuit develops a larger tear, either at a
>seam
>>or at a gasket?  (this could happen, for instance, if you flip and
>hit
>>a sharp rock with some part of your body).
>
>	[risky scenarios deleted]
>

In the past when I was doing competitive sailing, I sailed with folks that
wore wetsuits under their drysuits.  Especially in Feb. where you had to 
scrape the ice of the rails of the boat before you put-in.  They're reason
was as a precaution in case the drysuit ripped on a piece of gear on
the boat.

-- jsc (Scott Carr)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: EPLUS17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu (Richard Engelbrecht-Wiggans)
Subject: re: cold feet
Organization: C.C.S.O.
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 21:16:29 GMT

As I see it, the problem with sweating feet getting cold comes
in large part from the loss of insulation when my socks etc. get
wet.  My solution--and it works for me--is to keep my socks dry
by wearing a plastic bag right next to each foot.  (Actually, now
that I can afford it, I prefer the feel of neoprene socks and
use them in place of the plastic bags; the neoprene may breath a
little--anyone know?--but if so, it does so slowly enough so
that the moisture doesn't build up in the wool socks etc.)
 
Of course, none of this could possibly be of any relevance to
white water sports; it is based on my experience rowing and those
in favor of splitting of the newsgroup assure me that flatwater
enthusiasts have nothing to offer white water enthusiasts and vice
versa.  (No smiley here; I am dead serious...and disgusted.)
 
Richard Engelbrecht-Wiggans     Those who can, teach;
                                those who can't, don't;
eplus17@uiuc.edu                and too many who think they can teach
or EPLUS17@UIUCVMD              neither can nor do.
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: dsj@juniper12.cray.com (Douglas Jackson)
Subject: Giardia
Originator: dsj@juniper12
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 15 Dec 92 15:49:24 CST


A friend of mine just called.  It seems he picked
up Giardia(sp?).  He linked it to kayaking some
of the rivers around Minnesota/Wisconsin.  Does
anyone know anything about how common an ailment
this is for whitewater paddlers?  I know that when
I am surfing a big wave the water can shoot off of
the bow and into my face.  I am sure that I get
some water in my mouth.  How widespread is the
virus/bacteria?

-Doug Jackson.
-- 


	-Doug
From: rlarsen@bnr.ca (Richard Larsen P220)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: Touring Kayak
Date: 15 Dec 92 15:21:18 GMT
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, BNR-RTP

I just purchased a Phoenix Isere. It arrived yesterday so I have not 
had a chance to try it out yet. The trucking company had it in their 
terminal for four days before they delivered it. So I did not get to
use it last weekend. I don't know of any stores that cary Phoenix.
Phoenix has been around for at least 20 years that I know of.

This is my second Phoenix product. I had a Phoenix Match, a downriver
racing kayak. A lightweight fiberglass kayak (22 lbs) that lasted 10
years for me. I just sold it to make room for my new boat. I had the
Isere made in Kevlar ($1200). It is a 15 foot long solo touring kayak
that can do some whitewater (class 2 and 3). I did not get the optional
bulkheads so the deck is flexible. I would be afraid of the boat 
collapsing in heavy whitewater. The quality seems good and the
hull shape looks like a good compromise between whitewater and touring.
The kevlar keeps this long boat light, about 25 lbs.

For whitewater I have a polyproplene kayak (Hydra Taurus). This is long
by whitewater standards at 13 feet and weighs about 40 lbs with airbags.
From: gerry@me.pdx.edu (Gerry Recktenwald)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: Dry Suit Dangers
Date: 11 Dec 92 18:55:59 GMT
Article-I.D.: pdxgate.6555
Organization: Portland State University, Mechanical Engineering
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1.1d12
X-XXMessage-ID: <A74E24D89F018C85@strouhal.me.pdx.edu>
X-XXDate: Fri, 11 Dec 92 18:58:32 GMT

Subject: Dry Suit Dangers
From: Dieter Christensen, dc22@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu
Date: 10 Dec 92 23:18:05 GMT
In article <1992Dec10.231805.25604@news.columbia.edu> Dieter
Christensen, dc22@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu writes:
>
>I mean, what happens when you're paddling along happily and for some
>reason or other your drysuit develops a larger tear, either at a
seam
>or at a gasket?  (this could happen, for instance, if you flip and
hit
>a sharp rock with some part of your body).

	[risky scenarios deleted]

A group of sea-kayakers, who call themselves the "Tsunami Rangers",
seek out rock gardens, sea caves and such as secret play spots. Eric
Soares, one of TS has written articles in Sea Kayaker magazine about
gear and saftey, and he makes the same arguments as Dieter.  Soares
recommends 5mm wet suits and no PFD (!). I could look up the
articles if netters want more info. Soares argument against a
PFD is relevant only to ocean kayaking. He believes that the
floatation
in a 5mm wetsuit is sufficient, and that a PFD is a serious liability
when trying to swim in pounding surf. (I've yet to have a nasty swim
in the surf and I always wear my PFD).

It seems to me that there are different reasons for wet/dry suits
in ocean and river paddling. I have both wet and dry suits and I do
both sports. My wetsuit is only 3mm thick, which is comfy in
(Oregon) Pacific ocean water only if I add a layer of polypro
underneath it and a thick layer of fleece on top under my leaky
paddling jacket.

A gasket rip seems like the most like drysuit failure. I'm unaware
of a wetsuit failure that would be as potentially dangerous as a hole
in your drysuit. This is an important discussion but I think it comes
down to your personal value of risk vs. comfort. Cost is also a
consideration. A drysuit was a luxury that I didn't decide to afford
until this Fall.
 
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-...
Gerry Recktenwald     (503) 725-4296        gerry@me.pdx.edu
PSU Mechanical Engineering, P.O. Box 751, Portland, OR 97207
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: dsj@juniper12.cray.com (Douglas Jackson)
Subject: drysuit fabric
Originator: dsj@juniper12
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 15 Dec 92 15:55:07 CST


Is it easy to find fabric for a drysuit?  Can anyone
give me pointers as to where to find the material?

-Doug.
-- 


	-Doug
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: root@ute.Columbia.NCR.COM ()
Subject: Re: Legs falling asleep while 'yaking
Summary: Your boat's too tight?
Organization: NCR Corp, E&M-Columbia, Columbia, SC
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 21:29:48 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.232923.14974@midway.uchicago.edu>
   kristian@cs.uchicago.edu (Kristian Simsarian) writes:
>	The only major complaint I have had about the comfort of
>kayaking is that my legs always "fall asleep".
>
>[...]
>
>	As I understand it your knees are supposed to be tight up
>against the deck pads, while your feet are on the pegs.  I have
>wondered if maybe I have made it too tight a fit, but still I haven't
>been able to avoid the falling asleep phenomena.

Maybe I'm lucky, but I've never had this problem, even when paddling squirt
boats.  Perhaps your problem *is* a result of the way your boat's outfitted.

My knees touch the thigh pads when my feet touch the pegs, but neither knees
nor feet are tight unless I flex my ankles and press forward with my toes
against the pegs.  In other words, I fit fairly loosely in the boat until
I deliberately "lock in" by pushing with my toes.  Not only is this more
comfortable, but it also allows more boat control because I can relax one
side while pressing with the other.  I do this whenever I need to hold the
boat on edge (e.g. when hole surfing).

>My intuitive take on this is to say that the lack of circulation is caused
>by the relative inactivity of the legs while kayaking.

My legs are fairly active while I'm paddling (except in my squirt boat where
they don't really have enough room to move).  In addition to pressing with
one knee when you tilt the boat, you may want to develop the habit of
alternately pressing your feet in rhythm with your forward stroke.  It works
for me!

Barry Shelton                                            Happy Holidays!
barry@ute.columbiasc.ncr.com

Standard disclaimer.
From: rtg0547@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Raymond Tien )
Subject: Re: Legs falling asleep while 'yaking
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 20:24:48 GMT

"Sleeping" feet are usually associated with pressure on the sciatic nerve which
provides sensory and motor innervation to the feet. The nerve is relatively 
superficial at the back of the thigh and therefore vulnerable to ill-fitting
seats. I think loss of blood circulation would generally result in very unhappy
feet. RT
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: bever@csd630a.erim.org (Dave Beverstock)
Subject: Re: cold feet
In-reply-to: EPLUS17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu's message of Sun, 13 Dec 1992 21:16:29 GMT
Organization: Environmental Research Institute of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan
Date: 16 Dec 92 14:20:54

How could you post something gained from ROWING experience...  It
can't possibly be applicable!  :)

--
Dave Beverstock   bever@erim.org
Environmental Research Institute of Michigan (ERIM)
P.O. Box 134001  Ann Arbor, MI  48113-4001 313-994-1200 x2239
From: blodorn@ee.rochester.edu (Keith Blodorn)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Vote for Rowing Newsgroup
Date: 19 Dec 92 23:31:36 GMT
Organization: Univ of Rochester, College of Engineering and Applied Science


	I'm posting my vote for this rowing newsgroup now, because I
won't be around for the next month.  Rowing news is the basic reason
I even read these groups, and I think the idea of a seperate group
for rowing is downright groovy, so please count my vote and good luck.

					Keith Blodorn
					URCrew
					blodorn@ee.rochester.edu
					Life is short.  Pull hard.
From: dsj@juniper12.cray.com (Douglas Jackson)
Subject: Re: Giardia
Originator: dsj@juniper12
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 17 Dec 92 13:03:04 CST


> Giardia is not a virus or bacteria, it is a protozoa.
> Paddlers seem to get giardia both from drinking untreated
> water from the river, and from swallowing water while on
> a bad swim.  There is no excuse for swallowing water while
> playing, just spit it out!

What I have heard is that you don't have to swallow the water.
You can get it just by it getting on your lips.  If this
is true spitting it out just doesn't cut it.
I don't know that I ever swallow any, but with water pouring
in your face while you're trying to breathe, its hard to tell
if you have ingested any.

-- 


	-Doug
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: hamid@engrg.uwo.ca (Mr. Hamid Mir)
Subject: Re: Touring Kayak
Organization: DA&MRL, Engineering, UWO, London Ont. CA
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 13:22:08 GMT

Thanks for responding to my question on Phoenix boats, Ralph.
I have another question do you think it is worthwile getting a Vagabond
in Kevlar. The glass Vagabond weighs 46lbs while the Kevlar weighs 40lbs.
Do you think the extra $300(US) is worth it. Also do you think the Kevlar
has any other advantages other than just weight.

One more thing, what was the duty on the kayak to bring it to Canada?

Hamid
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: bblohm@boi.hp.com (Bill Blohm)
Subject: Re: Cold Toes
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 19:22:46 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard / Boise, Idaho
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

Have you tried layering socks?  A thin 
wicking sock right against the skin (polypro? silk? I forget what) and a
regular sock over that for the normal use of a sock.  I have heard of this
scheme, but have not used it so can't vouch for it.  Supposed to wick the
sweat away from the foot and so keep the foot dry and thus warmer.

Bill Blohm
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: WCC
From: burns@oread.cc.ukans.edu
Date: 13 Dec 92 14:34:59 CST
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Serces

Is anyone one out there a member of Washington Canoe Club?  I spend breaks in
the DC area and would like to know what's going on.

Brian Burns
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: arthur@sgi.com (Arthur Evans)
Subject: Re: Canoe Racks?
Reply-To: arthur@chiba (Arthur Evans)
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 92 02:38:47 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.145018.7378@infonode.ingr.com> mjo@beat.b24b.ingr.com (Michael J. Oatley) writes:
>
>I need advice on permanently mounted canoe roof racks, if such things
>are available.  [ ... ]  Does Thule or any other manufacturer make such a
>thing? Any recommendations?

This isn't exactly a recommendation, but I believe the answer 
to the first question above is "yes."  Last time I looked
through a Yakima catalog, it included listings for permanant
mounting hardware, which you can use to attach Yakima rack 
supports to your car.

You can either use these supports as the basis for a custom
rack, as other posters have suggested, or you can put together
a standard (more expensive) Yakima rack system.  The catalog
also shows "gunwale brackets" for carrying canoes, etc., but
I have no idea how well they work.  If you really only want to
carry canoes, the custom rack is probably the way to go. 

Anyway, if you're interested in seeing what they have to offer,
find a local Yakima dealer and pick up their catalog.  Thule
may offer something similar, so for best results, shop around...

OK
ae
Organization: University of Maine System
Date: Saturday, 12 Dec 1992 20:03:30 EST
From: whitewater!!! <IO11075@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle,
Subject: re: cold feet

All I wear is my wool socks over a pair of polypro socks and a
pair of sandals.  My feet have yet to be cold.  I do take time,
though, to sit up to restore circulation every 15-20 min.
good luck.
cristan
From: tut@cairo.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill "Bill" Tuthill)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Coastal Creek News?
Date: 16 Dec 1992 19:26:20 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA
Distribution: ca
NNTP-Posting-Host: cairo

Has anybody run the S Fork Eel yet this year?  Are there any new 
landslides or down trees?  We're hoping it comes up high enough
to run this weekend.

I heard kayakers talking at a party of having run the San Lorenzo.
Since they didn't talk about any new portages, I assume the run
is fairly clean at this point.

Last I heard, nobody has been down Mark West creek in a few years
with a handsaw to clean out brush.  If anybody has information
to the contrary, please let me know.

Bill (tut@sun.com)

Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: polar@top.cis.syr.edu (Polar Humenn)
Subject: Re: canoe equipment
Organization: Syracuse University, CIS Dept.
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 92 11:45:55 EST

In article <1992Dec8.191920.49328@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> bml2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (BRIAN MICHAEL LUCY) writes:
>In article <92342.155534IO11075@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>, IO11075@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (white
>water!!!) writes:
>>hello!
>> .....
>>Also:  I'm curious about different brands of paddles.  Which respond
>>the best ans/or which last the longest!:) I've tried a Perception
>>paddle and fell right in love with it--but is it really worth the
>>$100?  Dagger paddles are cheaper, but do they last?
>
>    I would have to say the strongest paddle in the world is made by Norse.
>You may have seen them around.  They are mostly red shafted with a white
>blade.  They have two models- the standard and the Slasher.  These things are
>rock solid strong!  They are so strong that the company gives a lifetime
>guarantee on them which offers blade repair for $5- $10 and FREE repair if the
>shaft breaks (which I have never seen).  A friend of mine has been buying and
>paddling with these for probably 15 years and owns over 20 of them for his boy
>scout troop.  The standard paddle is offered in any length and in two shaft
>diameters.  It has a relatively large straight canoe-like blade which offers
>extra power.  Its only drawback is it is one of the heavier paddles on the
>market, but the strength more than makes up for that.  The Slasher is
>  ......
>send me mail directly at bml2@Lehigh.EDU
>    Brian Lucy

My experiences with Norse paddles is this:  I work with an outing club
here in Syracuse, NY. and we used to buy Norse paddles, the standard one
you talk about.  
I'm not sure if they are making the shaft out of kevlar or not.
I suspected aluminium. That is because we have about 6 of the suckers
that are bent.  Yep, the blade is real strong, and I like the idea of
the aluminium edge incorporated within the blade for wear strength, however,
it's too strong for the shaft so to speak.  Do they fix bent shafts, i.e.
they haven't broken.  The bending seems to come from fierce hole riding,
and of course, a couple of beginners trying to pry themselves from an
upstream lean in a small shallow wave/hole.

I liked my Harmony very much, that is, until the shaft crumbled in my hand
while surfing a small wave on the Ottawa last September.  I wouldn't have
minded breaking it if I got stuck in Phil's Hole, but this was rediculous.
Does anybody know Perception's policy on broken paddles? I'd really like
to send it back to them.

Later,
-Polar

Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: vsh@etnibsd.uucp (Steve Harris)
Subject: Re: Canoe Racks?
Organization: Eaton Corp, Semiconductor Equipment Div., Beverly, MA
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 19:07:22 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.145018.7378@infonode.ingr.com> mjo@beat.b24b.ingr.com (Michael J. Oatley) writes:
>
>I need advice on permanently mounted canoe roof racks, if such things
>are available.
>

You can spend big bucks on a Thule or Yakima rack (which is not
permanent, although you can get lockable mounts, which would
effectively make it permanent), or you can do what a neighbor of mine
did:  build your own.

He bought four mounting brackets and two boards (2x4?, 2x6? 1x6?),
fastened the clamps to the boards at the right spots and, voila,
do-it-yourself canoe rack.  In addition, he cut the boards long enough
that he can carry two canoes side-by-side, which you cannot do with any
Thule or Yakima rack I have seen.

The rack IS removable, but you could probably build one which is
virtually permanent (use locknuts, etc).

Lastly, because the rack looks homemade, it is much less likely to be
ripped off.

-- 
... Steve Harris - Eaton Corp. - Beverly, MA - vsh%etnibsd@uunet.uu.net
From: klawton1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Kathleen Lawton)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: the MD flatwater avoider
Date: 18 Dec 92 19:36:11 GMT
Organization: Swarthmore College

In article <BRIANJ.92Dec17100401@bedrock.cs.umd.edu>,
brianj@bedrock.cs.umd.edu (Brian Johnson) writes:
 
> The solution is simple - AVOID FLATWATER AT ALL COSTS!!!:-)))
> A high degree of fear seems to unroll nerves all the way down to the
> tips of my toenails, whether I'm sitting on them or not!

Do I know you? I paddled flatwater at the Washington Canoe Club this
summer. Seems our paths must have crossed somewhere.
And the numbness goes away after a few days, even for flatwater paddlers...
Kathleen Lawton
Organization: University of Maine System
Date: Friday, 11 Dec 1992 15:39:33 EST
From: <IO20414@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: RE-POST ROWING NEWSGROUP



     Why don't you just start the bloody newsgroup
rather than asking for votes, and explaining ediciate!!!??!

rec.boats.rowing, sounds like a pretty to-the-point newsgroup
name to me.
H.I.(HI-MAN) HASEY
  CORSICA-S,PROLINE; LOU REED -- "BELIEVE IT MAN, IT'S TRUE
  '88 HONDA CRX;'81TOYOTA 4X4;      HE'S GOING TO THE BOULIVARD"
THIS IS EXCLUSIVELY MY OWN OPPENION.
For further discusion feel free to discuss.



Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle