From: abde@troi.cc.rochester.edu (Tamer A. Abdelgawad)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Re: What is H a m a s ??
Summary: The phantom of the classroom.
Date: 1 Jan 93 11:04:05 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester (Rochester, NY)

In article <1i0elbINN698@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> cl056@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Hamaza H. Salah) writes:
>
>Tamer AbdelJawad:
>
>>What Hamas did was wrong because the killing of an unarmed P.O.W. 
>>*without* a conviction for a specific crime is murder.  Islam does not
>>sanction murder.
>
>Islam doesn't tell you to be a chicken.  It tells to go and fight.
>btw, this unarmed pow of yours carried his ozi with him. I would like to 
>see you write about the deportation of the unconviceted 418 palestinians,
>or about the killing of palestinian people of all sorts who get killed
>by jews.  Why don't you write about the pows of muslims in bosnia?
>Or is it "israEl is here to stay, and lets accept that and move on"?
>Anyways, where in islam it tells you kidnapping your enemy and killing him
>is wrong?  Quote it for me.  I am ready to quote you the one that allows you
>to do so.  Are you?
>

You are sidestepping my argument Hamza (did you look up 'ad hominem' yet?).
I cannot quote you that "kidnapping your enemy and killing him is wrong"
any more than I can quote you that killing an innocent person *with* *a*
*shotgun* is wrong.  The Quran tells us that murder is wrong, and that is
exactly what I'm accusing Hamas (or at least those members who committed
the killing) of: murder.

In any case, I'll be waiting for your quote that justifies kidnapping
your enemy, *disarming* him, and then killing him.  Sorry. The fact
that he was carrying an uzi when they kidnapped him *does* *not* change
the fact that he was disarmed and completely helpless when they killed him.


>>>You're either one of these two , a jew or a christian who hates Islam and
>>>muslims -or- some idiot who just doesn't know what he is talking about.
>>>
>>>If these two don't fit your description, prove otherwise.  
>>>
>
>>Let's see:  I am neither a jew nor a christian, which leaves the "idiot".
>>Let me remind you Hamaza of the time I personally insulted you by calling
>>you a "presumptuous idiot".  I apologized *twice*, and accepted whatever
>>names you called me as fair retaliation.  Can I expect the same from you?
>>I'll even make it easier by not insulting you in return :-).
>
>You are really a westernized mature man.  Prove otherwise on giving
>evidences of what your talking about islam.  Your personal
>opinions are not part of islam.  Say you think this and that is
>right or wrong, but not islam that says it.
>

It should be clear that we are all expressing opinions.  If you think that
including quotes from the Quran in your postings makes your postings *the*
truth, then you are, to say the least, naive.  For example, if I am writing
an article on diabetes which prescribes honey as a cure, and I quote from
El Na'hl (68-69), then my post is *still* wrong.  Context and interpretation
matter.


>>>I would like you once to respond to a jew post, or is it really these
>>>muslims who you are after. huh?
>>>
>
>>An extreme jewish posting irritates me much less than a posting which
>>I preceive as a misrepresentation of Islam and moslims.  I say what I
>>say in good faith, and I'm always open to conflicting opinions.
> 
>Someone who says "israel is here to stay" is accepted to say worse
>than this.  If your open to conflicting opinions, prove to me
>that i misrepresent islam and muslims.  tell me where in quran
>it says muslims have to give the land they were drove from and 
>accept their enemys to be on it and give up fighting.   who is 
>misrepresenting islam? someone who quotes quran or someone who says
>about islam whatever he likes without knowing it is in islam or not.
>

I claim that what I say does not conflict with Islam.  The burden of
the proof is therefore on you.  Whenever I claim that Islam *instructs*
us to do something, I will provide the references.

>>>>P.S.  Happy holidays everyone :-)
>>>
>>>Muslims don't have holdiays at this time of the year.
>>>However, it is ok if you're christian to say it for non-muslims.  
>>>
>
>>I think I read in one of your posts that you are done with classes
>>for this semester, ergo, contrary to what you say, moslims *do* have
>>holidays at this time of the year :-).  Happy holidays.
>
>There is a differnce from one who is acknowldging and celebrating them
>and someone who is not.
>

Don't you *acknowledge* that you have a few weeks' holiday from classes 
and *celebrate* the fact?  Or do you hang out in empty classrooms, 
lamenting the absence of your professors and fellow students?

Tamer Abdelgawad
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic