From: Dale McMillen <dmcmillen@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: alt.politics.greens
Date: 04 Jan 93 20:26 PST
Subject: Re: Greens vs. Property Rights
Nf-ID: #R:1hs8brEINNfle@uni-erlangen.de:-1634168734:cdp:1678600027:000:3715
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!dmcmillen    Jan  4 20:26:00 1993


> Food, shelter, defense, and all of the other things to which leftists
> would "entitle" everyone do not fall from heaven; they are the products
> of work.
 
Lee Daniel Crocker:
 
In my first response to these comments, I was thinking primarily about
the just distribution of goods.  But, as I began to think about this
statement more, I began to see that we may be operating from a very
different philosophical and religious framework.
 
You see, I do believe that food, shelter, defense .... DO fall from
heaven.
 
The ancient Jews in the time of Moses believed they were fed manna
by God which came from heaven.  They also believed that their military
victories were attributable to God.
 
In Jesus' time, people were fed with the miracle of the loaves and 
fishes, and we were taught to pray to God, "Give us this day, our daily
bread." 
 
Winona LaDuke, a native American, speaks of her people's beliefs:
 
  "Our way of living with natural law has to do with concepts
   which are indigenous values.  In my community we have term,
   Minobimaatisiiwin, which means 'the good life.'  It's
   alternatively translated as 'continuous rebirth' and is an
   essential tenent in the value system which we strive to
   as individuals and collectively as communities.  In order
   to do that we have a few concepts that keep us in sync with
   minobimaatisiiwin and with natural law.
     We have a understanding that time is cyclical.  The seasons,
   the moon, lives, life, women -- all these things are in cycles.
   Another concept is 'reciprocity.'  The means that when I harvest
   my wild rice on my reservation in northern Minnesota or when we
   hunt deer, I always, offer tobacca, offer saymah, because I
   understand in my language all of this things are animate.  The
   deer, the plants, even a stone is animate.  All things have
   standing on their own.  I always give thanks for them giving
   me their life, because I understand that I am totally reliant
   upon them to continue in my minobimaatisiiwin, my way of life
   on this land.  In order to do that you must always give what
   you take, and when you take you must only take what you need
   and leave the rest.  If you take more than you need, you are
   out of order of the natural law.  That is our way of understanding
   it.
     Indigenous values are values of social societies and peoples
   who have continuously inhabited this land in what I would suggest
   are sustainable communities, a sustainable way of life, totally
   integrated into ecosystems....."
 
   From The Non-Violent Activist, September-October 1992
 
People from many societies have believed that their needs have flowed
from God.  We see the same thing whether we look to the ancient
Hebrews and Christians and their view of a one God who lives in
heaven or to the native Americans who view God as an omni-present
life force throughout nature.
 
In fact, is this really so absurd?  The farmer may plant the seeds,
but who makes them grow?  The doctor may bandage the wound, but
who makes it heal?  The counselor may listen to a tormented soul,
but who brings inner peace?
 
Actually, I was wondering if the sin Jesus was referring to when
he prayed, "Give us this day, our daily bread, and forgive us our
sins and we forgive those who sin against us", was really the sin
of humans selfishly hoarding the blessings of God which were intended
for all creation?
 
Dale
 
P.S. I generally think it is a bad idea to mix religion and politics,
but we are, after all, talking about values and that is the stuff of
religion.  Remember it was Gandhi who said, "People who think that
religion does not have anything to do with politics, don't know much
about religion."

Newsgroups: alt.politics.greens