HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jordan@cs.tulane.edu (Misti Jordan)
Subject: Re: Sanctity of relationships
Organization: Computer Science Dept., Tulane Univ., New Orleans, LA
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 16:23:30 GMT
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-12008]: sinbad


In article <1992Apr13.200745.29524@cbnewsc.cb.att.com>, kapa@cbnewsc.cb.att.com (k.a.perkins) writes:
> >
> > Oh...so you marry a virgin and you are the only one she has ever slept
> > with.  Another guy comes along and she sleeps with him. She has a wonderful
> > time and "never thought that sex could feel so wonderful" and leaves you.
> > That is your fault for driving her away??  No, you'll say it was her fault
> > for sleeping with him.  Yes, it is her fault and his too for sleeping with
> > him.  It takes two to tango!
> >
>
> This is what is so simple minded about your examples.
> "Another guy comes along and your wife sleeps with him."
> Why did she do this?  How did they get together?  People who
> are happily married in monogamous relationships don't just happen
> to sleep with some guy who comes along.  After they slept together,
> assuming both spouses regarded it as a problem in the marriage, why didn't
> they work out this problem?  What was wrong between them that they
> couldn't get past this problem?  If she didn't want to work it
> out and he did, what was wrong between them that she regarded
> great sex with a one night stand as more important than her
> marriage?  Why was sex with her husband so bad that she didn't want
> to try to make it better?
>
> This is just another example of a toppling relationship that
> falls because of internal problems (bad sex, bad communication,
> someone not getting their needs met).  It may look like an
> external push, but it was very tippy to begin with.

I don't agree with the fact that "it was very tippy to begin with".
If either of the two parties in a marriage is a virgin, he/she has
nothing to compare the marital sex to... It could be the greatest
thing since white loaf bread, but it could also be the worst. Since
he/she doesn't know that there is something lacking in the relationship,
I don't see how it could be tippy in the first place. I'm not saying
that one should go around screwing everyone they can just so you'll
have something to compare your spouse to, but I , for one, know from
experience that quite often you don't realize that there is something
wrong with your relationship until someone else shows you otherwise.

Misti
Organization: Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Thursday, 9 Apr 1992 00:46:09 EDT
From: Solace <SETOM@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Newsgroups: soc.couples
Subject:    The many postings on sanctity

RE:  All the different opinions expressed.  It's obvious that everyone who
responded has personal standards of ethical behaviour with respect to
significant personal relationships.  References to an arbitrarily defined
(and it has to be arbitrary, unless you accept the existence of an absolute
power which defines the rules; I don't, it takes much of the fun out of the
randomness of the universe) moral principle cannot take into account the
many factors involved in these difficult decisions.  For myself, the only
principles I try to maintain are "be true to yourself" and "do no harm."
If you believe you should act, then do so.  If not, then don't.  Of course,
the other entity (male/female/androgynous) also has self-awareness and free
will (sorry B.F.!) and will react as they will.

Rules such as "it's not ok if they are married, but otherwise it's all fair"
don't make sense to me.  If you are willing to act on your interest otherwise,
why should the legal/sociocultural institution of marriage stop you?  It's
very interesting to read other people's opinions but when it comes to making
personal decisions, I believe it's up to you.

Looking over this note, I sound like an existential humanist don't I?  :)
___________________________________________________________________
Mike Seto   "Oops, did I say that out loud?"

            "Life!  Don't talk to me about life."  Marvin the Android
From: bicker@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (The Resource, Poet-Magician of Quality)
Newsgroups: soc.couples
Subject: Re: Female friends
Date: 6 Apr 92 14:29:24 GMT
Reply-To: Brian.C.Kohn@att.com (The Resource, Poet-Magician of Quality)
Followup-To: soc.couples
Organization: The Internet

In article <1992Apr3.004301.25519@wam.umd.edu> jasonbr@next06pg2.wam.umd.edu (Jason Bert Rust) writes:
>In article <1992Apr2.181712.7326@cbnewsi.cb.att.com>  
>bicker@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (The Resource, Poet-Magician of Quality) writes:
>> In article <1992Apr1.000955.19773@wam.umd.edu>  
>jasonbr@next04wor.wam.umd.edu (Jason Bert Rust) writes:
>> >Is it selfish to rank the value of a friend againts thier cost? Or
>> >should I be a self sacraficing saint, endlessly accepting grief for the  
>> >profit of others.
>> Ugh...gross...yick.  This diatribe is sickening.  Please step back and
>> help yourself...learn a bit about the world before making such rash and
>> cold conclusions.  I did and am much happier for it.
> Sickening diatribe? I'm very sorry you don't like my writing style. I may  
>declare English as my major, all my writing sounds like this! As for your  
>happy attitude in life, I stick by what I've observed. I try to make my  
>corner a happy place, but the world can be mean.

You miss my point!  Your writing isn't the focus...it's fine.  It's
your bleak view of the world that concerns me.

My point is best summarized by the .signature I use in my gone.fishing
messages: 

``There is always something to do.  There are always hungry people
to feed, naked people to clothe, sick people to comfort and make
well.  And while I don't expect you to save the world I do think
it's not asking too much for you to love those with whom you sleep,
share the happiness of those whom you call friend, engage those
among you who are visionary and remove from your life those who
offer you depression, despair and disrespect.'' --Nikki Giovanni

Living by that creed has raised me from the cynical, unhappy bath that
you now are living through.  I only wanted to express my hope that you
make it out as well.

-- 
Brian Charles Kohn             AT&T Bell Laboratories Quality Process Center
ISO Certified Lead Assessor    E-MAIL: att!hoqax!bicker  (bicker@hoqax.ATT.COM)
    'Hope, not fear, is the most positive advocate of action.' - S.R. Lawhead
                   Stamp Out "SO": "RP" = "Romantic Partner"
Newsgroups: soc.couples
From: willey@ravel.udel.edu (Edward V Willey)
Newsgroups: soc.couples
Subject: Some help, please.
Date: 8 Apr 92 16:44:23 GMT
Organization: University of Delaware


Hi,
   I'm sure this question has come up many time in this group, but I'd
still really appreciate some help with the following problem, which is
tearing me up inside, and I think a lot of you can relate to it.
   I've been seeing a girl since freshmen year at college and we just
celebrated our three year aniversary.  The beginning of the relationship
was wonderful, we both seemed very much in love and perfect for each
other.  A year or so went by and things were still great, there was talk
of marriage and foreverness.  Then things got somewhat stale.  I'm not
really sure why it happened, but I do have some ideas.  We broke up, and
I started seeing someone else.  After a month or two, we got back
together, and things started to go well again.  Last summer was
wonderful, and the old powerful feelings started coming back.  Then in
September, she broke up with me, saying that she needed time to be
alone.  There was another guy involved who was constantly trying to
break us up so he could see her.  That night she started a serious relationship 
with that same person.
   Around late November, they broke up and we started seeing each other
again.  She went to London for a month, and when she got back things
were pretty good, but there was a lot of tenseness which led to
fighting.  Please keep in mind that all that was just a quick summary.
   Now we are talking of breaking up again.  She says she doesn't feel the same
was for me as she used to, and that the old feelings aren't there
anymore.  I feel just the opposite, I'm utterly in love with her and
still want a future together.  She said she'll give it some more time,
but that she doubts it'll work.  She also said she'll probably start
seeing the same guy she saw before again if we break up.
   I really have no idea what to do.  I want to show her that we're
right for each other, but there's so much tenseness around that I'm not
sure if I'll be able to do that.  I dread that idea of us breaking up,
and dread the idea of her seeing that same guy again.   Is there a way
to convince someone that you're right for each other?  And if so, is
that a good thing to do?
   I welcome all input, and thanks for listening to me.  I doubt that
everthing that I intended to say came across in what I wrote, but the
basic idea is there.

	  -Ed Willey.
Newsgroups: soc.couples
From: epeterso@fenix.encore.com (Eric Peterson)
Subject: Re: "K" Names
News-Software: NN 6.4.16
Reply-To: epeterson@encore.com (Eric Peterson)
Organization: Encore Computer Corp, Umax Development
Date:  9 Apr 92 20:06:12 GMT

S7985203@deimos.ucc.umass.edu ( ) writes:

| > How about:  Kimberly, Kaylin, Kirsten, Kristian,  Kory,  Karin,
| >             Kristina.....
|
| 	Kenneth, Karl, Kaitlyn, Kristi, Kayla, Kendra, Karla

My wife has a close fried named Katia (pronounced "KAY-shuh").  I've
seen variants such as Kaysha and Kasia as well.

Also, I heard on NPR's All Things Considered that the name "Keibi"
(pronounced "KAY-bee") was a popular Yuppie-ish way of spelling out
the initials "K.B.".

Eric
Newsgroups: soc.couples
From: polsak@nuscc.nus.sg (Suzaina Abdul Kadir (Ms))
Subject: Marriage and Parents
Organization: National University of Singapore
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 02:57:13 GMT

I often ask around about this particular subject, but
now that I am seriously contemplating the issue I
need some concrete advice. I do understand that the
fact of me being from a different culture may make my
situation rather hard to understand. BUT I hope you'll
bear with me and offer some pointers.

:-)

Okay...Lesseee...

Where I come from, and with particular reference to
my family, the father is a strong figure in the family.
He decides on major issues and he is the strict disciplinarian.
At the same time, children are expected to listen and 
adhere to what their parents say. This I presume is from
the notion that parents know best.

Now my situation...

My father is VERY protective over me. I'm his only daughter
and the eldest in the family. I'm incidently going to be
24 in about a months time.
I've been seeing someone seriously for the past two years,
give and take here and there. We are contemplating marriage
once he graduates, and that will be next year.

Now, my father, being the way he is, doesn't know whats
going on. My parents feel strongly against me dating
seriously, so they chose not to notice that I have been dating
for the past 7 years of my life. As my mom puts it, what we
don't see with the naked eye we presume doesn't happen.
Of course my mom knows what is going on since she's close
to me but my dad doesn't.

I also found out recently that my dad would like me to marry
a particular race. My SO is of course of a different race.
Everytime my mom brings up the issue of me getting married,
my dad gets angry and brushes the issue off. He keeps
saying that *I* am not yet interested in marriage and that I
won't since I'm about to prusue graduate school. How he
'knows' this I dunno, but it is certainly a wrong assumption.

Could someone please tell me how I'm going to persuade my father
that I am more than ready to contemplate marriage and that I
intend too, maybe next year or so ? How do I persuade my dad
that prejuduce, especially racial prejudice is something I
adhore, and certainly not something I can accept ?

My SO and myself would want our parents to bless our marriage,
who wouldn't ? But, knowing how unreasonaly my father is, I'm
often afraid that I may end up breaking his heart over my decision
to marry. My SO is in a more difficult position since he insists
that he needs to know that my parents are at least 'chill' about
the idea. He doesn't want a situation where he may have to come
between me and my parents.

Help.

:-)

Suzaina
From: michael@wicat.UUCP (Mike Weeks)
Newsgroups: soc.couples
Subject: Re: What is SO?
Date: 10 Apr 92 20:24:28 GMT
Organization: WICAT Systems, Orem, Utah

SO means what it says:

Significant - adj. having meaning.
Other - noun. a different or additional one.

It was originated so you could refer to that other person in your life without
having to be specific about things that are not relevent or anybody elses
business. It does not imply married/not married, living/not living together,
same/other sex, having/not having sex, etc. All it implies is that the other
person is the most significant person in your life.

But then again, who am I to have an opinion.
From: kim@i5160e.nrl.navy.mil (Ellis Kim)
Newsgroups: soc.couples
Subject: Re: Sanctity of relationships
Date: 16 Apr 92 22:50:43 GMT
Distribution: na

In article <1992Apr13.185301.26362@cbnewsc.cb.att.com> kapa@cbnewsc.cb.att.com (k.a.perkins) writes:
>In article <1971@ra.nrl.navy.mil>, kim@i5160e.nrl.navy.mil (Elisabeth Kim) writes:
>> If Sandra likes Kurt, the ethical thing
>> for her to do is to tell him that she is still in this relationship with
>> peter and that she will have to break up with peter first, before they can
>> do anything.
>
>Why?  Why does she have to break up with Peter first?  Why is it
>assumed that they have an agreement to be monogamous?  And if they
>do, why does she have to break up with him?  Why not just tell him
>that she wants to go out with this other person and then let him
>decide if he wants to leave her over it?  Kurt didn't ask her to
>marry him, or to live with him, or to cleave only to him and forsake
>all others.  He probably asked her if she'd like to go to a movie or
>for dinner or something like that.  Kurt or Sandra might have such
>a crummy time that they never see each other again.
>
>Maybe I'm missing something about contemporary dating, or else there's
>something implied by the term "relationship" that I don't know about.
>I don't understand the notion that a person can only "have a 
>relationship" with one partner at a time.  As far as I can tell,
>these people aren't necessarily married to each other, so why is
>it a de facto law that they can only date one person at a time?

sorry, sure.  depends on the relationship sandra has with peter. but i do
think that some kind of communication needs to take place between sandra
and peter.  
i assumed a pretty serious kind of relationship.  live-in/married/whatever.
as far as regular dating (what is regular dating?) is involved, i don't 
even know if sandra has the obligation to inform peter. hmm. well, whatever. 
really depends on the relationship going on between peter and sandra.

and btw: reading some of these posts on the subject: wooing does not include
things such as intrigues and trying to spread false rumors about peter and
disgusting things like that.  wooing to me means being friendly with sandra,
whatever that entails. 

 
Ellis
-- 
*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*
email to:        | My professors are not at fault.  | First things first.  
70kim@cua.bitnet | These thoughts are my own        | But not necessarily 
                 | I am not a grad student yet.     | in that order.  - who
From: jclark@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (John Clark)
Newsgroups: soc.couples
Subject: Re: Female friends
Date: 7 Apr 92 06:38:54 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego

In article <Apr.5.12.58.41.1992.21497@gandalf.rutgers.edu> shagan@gandalf.rutgers.edu (Susan Hagan) writes:
+jclark@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (John Clark) writes:
+
+>Of course, who would want to spoil a friendship which is based on
+>equality and independence, with a sign of ownership.
+
+
+Where's the sign of ownership?

Sex.


-- 

John Clark
jclark@ucsd.edu
From: adair@aio.jsc.nasa.gov (Jerry Adair)
Newsgroups: soc.couples
Subject: Re: How to deal with jealousy...
Date: 17 Apr 92 19:33:50 GMT
Reply-To: adair@aio.jsc.nasa.gov
Organization: NASA / Johnson Space Center

In article <1992Apr17.173412.20463@adp.uucp>, kevinc@adp.uucp (Kevin Cherek) writes:
> Hi,
> 
> Lets say you've been dating someone for a few weeks.  Things
> are going pretty good, you enjoy each other's company, etc.
> Then s/he ('she' in my case) starts showing signs of extreme
> jealousy. For example, she suspects me of engaging in other
> relationships behind her back. 
> 
> She realizes that she has no evidence for this and acknowledges
> that she is a very jealous person.  I don't want to play therapist.
> 
> Any thoughts????

Ahh, just give it time and give her a chance.  It'll wear off in time.  Besides,
when you are involved with someone, you're always insecure; it's human nature.
Just reassure her, let her know that she's the only one (if that is the case :)
and before you know it, these episodes will fade away.  (unless she has other
problems that _cause_ the jealousy, and if so, make a trip to splitsville)
Finally, remember that in the beginning, things are usually trying; it's that type
of stuff and whether or not the two of you make it through it which will determine
if it was meant to be.  Therefore, just relax and give it time.

My $.02 only, your mileage may vary.
--
From the Space City...
Jerry R. Adair                 adair@aio.jsc.nasa.gov
2101 NASA Road 1               "The mind is a terrible thing."
Houston, TX  77058             (713)483-8058
Newsgroups: soc.couples
From: kirsten@morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Kirsten Starcher)
Subject: Some general term
Organization: Memorial University of Newfoundland
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 20:48:35 GMT

Hmmm, having all sorts of trouble trying to post this damn thing.  Apologies to
anyone who's read it twice.

Most of the discussion has been in terms of couples that are either living
together, engaged, or practically engaged.  What about just close couples?  My
boyfriend doesn't really like the term "girlfriend", but "ladyfriend" or
"womenfriend" have somewhat negative connotations.  "Significant other" takes
too long to say and sounds too politically correct in everyday language, while
"SO" sounds like a gas station (Esso -- I think it's only in Canada).

Anyone have any suggestions?

Kirsten...
This post brought to you by the letters f, y, v, and the number i.

Newsgroups: soc.couples
From: bicker@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (The Resource, Poet-Magician of Quality)
Subject: Re: Some help, please.
Reply-To: Brian.C.Kohn@att.com (The Resource, Poet-Magician of Quality)
Organization: The Internet
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 12:34:07 GMT
Followup-To: soc.couples

In article <18683@ravel.udel.edu> willey@ravel.udel.edu (Edward V Willey) writes:
[Ed's been seeing someone off and on for about 3 years.  They were
going out for a year, very seriously, before they broke up the first
time, for one month.  Then a few months later, she broke up with him to
start a serious relationship with another guy (that night).  A month or
two later, those two broke up and Ed and "her" started seeing each
other again, but things were tense.  Now they're talking about breaking
up again. He doesn't want that.]
>   I really have no idea what to do.  I want to show her that we're
>right for each other, but there's so much tenseness around that I'm not
>sure if I'll be able to do that.  I dread that idea of us breaking up,
>and dread the idea of her seeing that same guy again.   Is there a way
>to convince someone that you're right for each other?  And if so, is
>that a good thing to do?

One thing you didn't convey in your original message is the specifics
of the earlier break-ups.  I believe they'd reveal lots about the
relationship and it's future.

However, one cannot show someone that they are right for each other: that
is the type of decision that can only be made internally.  The best one
can do is be one'self and let the other person make their own decision.  
The tenseness you mention could very well be caused by the difference
of opinion about the health/future of your relationship.  

It sounds to me that going out with her is causing you an excess of
pain.  My creedo is to "remove from your life all those that give you
despair, depression, and disrespect."

I hope this helps.

-- 
Brian Charles Kohn             AT&T Bell Laboratories Quality Process Center
ISO Certified Lead Assessor    E-MAIL: att!hoqax!bicker  (bicker@hoqax.ATT.COM)
    'Hope, not fear, is the most positive advocate of action.' - S.R. Lawhead
                   Stamp Out "SO": "RP" = "Romantic Partner"
From: packer@amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov (Charles Packer)
Subject: Did Jefferson father Heming's child?
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Organization: Dept. of Independence
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 11:26:00 GMT

What is the consensus among historians as to whether Thomas
Jefferson ever fathered a child by his slave Sally Heming?

A friend cited a biography whose title she couldn't remember
as saying that he did. I cited Dumas Malone as saying that
visitors to Monticello did see a dark-skinned servant who
resembled Jefferson, but that it was probably the child of
Jefferson's nephew.
From: thornley@cs.umn.edu (David H. Thornley)
Newsgroups: soc.history
Subject: Re: Battle of Shiloh
Date: 13 Apr 92 19:22:02 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.1992Apr13.192202.3845
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, CSci dept.

In article <1992Apr8.174034.961@odin.corp.sgi.com> zursch@whizkid.corp.sgi.com (Jeff Zurschmeide) writes:
>In article <1992Apr7.211922.22010@cs.umn.edu> thornley@cs.umn.edu (David H. Thornley) writes:
>>>
>>[Would Britain or France have lifted the blockade and gone to war with
>> the Union?]
>
>The British and French used Southern cotton in their textile mills. Those
>mills and their owners needed cotton. No cotton, no work, no work, no income,
>no income, no taxes. Damn the legations! ;^} But they weren't willing to go
>on record as supporting slavery. Big win there for Lincoln with the
>Emancipation Proclamation.
>
The Emancipation Proclamation certainly made it more difficult for European
countries to recognize the CSA, but would Britain have gone to war without
it?  I know the British and French cotton factories needed trade with the
South, but how much involvement did they have with the North?  I don't have
any sort of trade figures for the time.  (Also, what was the danger to
Canada if Britain joined the war?  Would it have been practical for the
Union to conquer it?)

>>[Would Britain have gone to war?]
>
>They also would have liked to stunt the growth of the U.S. before it 
>became what it has become. They were stuck, it seems to me, between 
>distaste for the South and fear of the Union. That distaste won because
>of emancipation. Read up on the Slidell and Mason embassies to England
>and France. The Union caught the British-flagged ship that was taking
>them across the pond and they arrested the two of them. *That* nearly
>brought England into the war. (Taking people off a foreign vessel was
>and is an act of war.) Lincoln freaked and gave them back. They spent
>the rest of the war in Europe waiting around for appointments with the
>politicians, getting nowhere.
>
Was Britain really concerned with the Union at this time?  I hadn't realized
the US was seen as a potential threat at that time.  The US had never been
able to project power; the first ocean-going US navy capable of fighting
the British on any reasonable basis was decades in the future.

The Slidell/Mason incident was of course an act of war, but there is a
difference between that sort of act of war, which can be apologized for,
blamed on one individual exceeding authority, and mostly remedied, and
something like lifting a blockade.  (One account I read of the incident
said that the Union captain could legally have impounded the whole ship,
but that merely taking Slidell and Mason was illegal and an act of war.
Dunno about that myself.)  

>Curious, huh?
>
A strange time in many ways.  And not one where anybody had much respect
for legality.

DHT
Newsgroups: soc.history