From: radzy@ICSI.Berkeley.EDU (Tim Radzykewycz)
Subject: Re: a reply to radzy's post
Organization: International Computer Science Institute, Berkeley, CA, U.S.A.
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 16:07:12 GMT

cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
> radzy it just occurred to me that I responded to your post incorrectly.
> You ask what I was doing to promote men's rights and why I was running
> down Jeff's "cause."

Hi all, Hi Janis!

Janis: I'm really sorry I pointed you out in my posting.  From your
previous postings, and from a couple of private e-mail letters
you've sent me, I *knew* that you were aware of the men's rights
issues, because you've experienced them in your family.  In your
first response, you said pretty much exactly what I expected you
to say: that you had done some things for those issues, but that
they weren't high on your list of priorities.

The point of my posting was to support what I thought was a
valid fringe point-of-view, that I thought Jeff was taking (and
Todd and Leo, to a lesser extent).  From Todd's later posts, I
found out that his ideas were pretty much exactly reversed from
what I thought, and so my posting was not appropriate in the
form it was posted.

My point again: there are thousands of injustices being done
in the world.  If we ignore them, then we're helping to
perpetuate them.  If we refuse to acknowledge them, then we're
helping to perpetuate them.  If we know that they exist, and we
know that we are partly responsible for them, and we don't
blatantly continue doing overt things to continue the
injustices, then we're almost neutral.  And if we make attempts
to solve them, within ourselves, then we help the cause.  All
this goes, even if we don't take overt, public actions for (or
against) the cause.

When Janis said she helped the men's issues that I stated, she put
herself into the "help the cause" camp, even though she doesn't
go to marches and such things.  Janis isn't the enemy of men's
issues.  I've seen that from her previous posts, and from one
or two mail messages she sent me.  Anyone who reads her postings
without letting their own anger get in the way should also know
this.

Todd, on the other hand, seems to be denying the validity of
women's issues, and thus puts himself firmly into the "enemy"
camp w.r.t. women's issues (and racial issues and ...).  I wish
I'd realized this earlier.   Aside: It *might* be that he does
acknowledge the issues as valid, and he just comes across as a
radical because of lack of ability (or care) to communicate his
ideas effectively.  Jeff seems to have the right idea, but I
think he's concentrating on the men's issues side of the argument
to the exclusion of the women's issues side.

It *might* also be that I'm combining Jeff's and Todd's posts,
and coming up with a skewed picture of him/them.  That's a real
possibility.  If so, I hope that one/both of them will correct
me.

Anyway, this is supposed to be a public apology to Janis, for
having ragged on her for something that wasn't appropriate.

Bear Blessings!

------------------------------------------------------------
					|  An it harm none,
	-- radzy			|  do as ye will.
					|
	Tim Omelan Radzykewycz     	|  "Just pray for a
	The Incredible Radical Cabbage	|  tough hide and a
					|  tender heart."
	radzy@icsi.berkeley.edu	        |    -- Ruth Graham
					|
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