HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Organization: The American University - University Computing Center
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 21:57:10 EST
From: Peter M. Cohen <PC2370A@auvm.american.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: Jews For Germans
 <93008.091904PC2370A@auvm.american.edu> <1993Jan8.210012.1@vxdesy.desy.de>
 <1il20cINNar9@mailgzrz.TU-Berlin.DE>

In article <1il20cINNar9@mailgzrz.TU-Berlin.DE>, georg@marie.physik.tu-berlin.de
(Georg Schwarz) says:
>
>In <1993Jan8.210012.1@vxdesy.desy.de> godfrey@vxdesy.desy.de writes:
>
>>In my view the Germans forfeited their right to their country (a homeland, if
>>you like) by their actions during the first and second WW's, particularly the
>>latter.  As I have said before, it was a mistake to allow the German nation
>>to continue after WW2 and a mistake to allow the recent reunification.  I can
>>only hope that after the next example of the Germans' attempts to subject the
>>rest of the world to what they see as their superiority (inevitable in my
>>view) that the same mistake will not be made once again.
>
>>Laurence
>
>I just hope that there aren't too many people out there who not only have
>such a way of thinking but do not even feel ashame making it public.
>


>I think noone should be obliged feeling guilty (nor proud, BTW) because of
>one's mere race or nationality which one has simply inhereted.
>No race or nation should be considered superiour or inferiour to another,
>especially not in moral terms.
>
>I know that there are many people (and probably will always be) who take
>a diffent stand on this.

Yes, I wonder what our dear Laurence has to say about the thousands of
German Jews who died fighting the allies in WWI.  The German Jews were
accepted and considered German.  They  considered themselves fully German.
Do these Jews therefore not deserve a homeland ??  Laurence, not all Germans
were or are Nazis.

--Peter Cohen
From: jlove@ivrit.ra.itd.umich.edu (Jack Love)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Khanukah
Date: 7 Jan 1993 20:55:52 GMT
Organization: /usr/local/trn/lib/organization
NNTP-Posting-Host: ivrit.ra.itd.umich.edu

In article <199301071554.AB23916@cybernet.cse.fau.edu> <Murray Kahl <kahl@cybernet.cse.fau.edu>> writes:

>The term for this is a paleo fricative and is hard for the native 
>American speaker to pronounce; however, you do find the same phoneme 
>in "The Loch Ness Monster," the composer "Bach," and other words. The 
>term fricative refers to friction at the rear of the mouth while 
>making the sound.

Something went awry with my last attempt to respond here, but 
I'll try again. 

Does this term "paleo fricative" apply to both the Ashkenazi
and Sephardi pronunciations of het? I don't believe they
are the same phoneme.



-- 
________________________________________
Jack F. Love	| 	Opinions expressed are mine alone.
		|	(Unless you happen to agree.)
From: Jennifer S.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Orthadox Judaism and women
Date: 8 Jan 1993 19:07:13 GMT
Organization: Temple Univ.
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: citrine12.bucknell.edu


I was born and raised an orthadox Jew, but recently have been attending
conservative Jewish services and enjoy them much, much more than orthadoxy
(for many reasons) but one being that conservative Judaism respects women. 

It's high time that Orthadox Judaism wakes up from the Middle Ages and
re-vamps some of its sexist customs.  It is an embarrasment to the rest of
Judaism.

Jenn.
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Orthadox Judaism and women
Date: 9 Jan 93 03:44:17 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <1ikjd1INNot@coral.bucknell.edu> Jennifer S. writes:
>
>I was born and raised an orthadox Jew, but recently have been attending
>conservative Jewish services and enjoy them much, much more than orthadoxy
>(for many reasons) but one being that conservative Judaism respects women. 

>It's high time that Orthadox Judaism wakes up from the Middle Ages and
>re-vamps some of its sexist customs.  It is an embarrasment to the rest of
>Judaism.


Sounds interesting.  Perhaps you would like to enlighten us
with your insight? 


Anisa

Xref: sparky soc.culture.jewish:24905 soc.culture.german:9679
From: mstern@wam.umd.edu (Michael Stern)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: Jews For Germans
Date: 10 Jan 93 16:51:05 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park

In article <1993Jan9.183412.20296@compu.com> fr@compu.com (Fred Rump from home) writes:
>godfrey@vxdesy.desy.de writes:
>
>>>>In my view the Germans forfeited their right to their country (a homeland, if
>[and other nonsense]
>
>>The moon is not full in my latitude at the present time
>>Laurence
>
>I had no idea that computer access was granted in the asylums of the world. 
>What is the world coming to when we permit nonsense to be spread around as if
>it were opinion from rational people? 
>
>I'm also surprised that so many people respond to the drivel as if it had
>meaning.
>
>Fred
>-- 
>W. Fred Rump 	office:	   fred@COMPU.COM     'mans feet have grown/so big 
>26 Warren St.   home: fred@icdi10.compu.com  that he/forgets his littleness'
>Beverly, NJ. 08010                          		Don Marquis 
>609-386-6846    bang:uunet!cdin-1!icdi10!fr   

*I* had no idea that computer access was granted to people from _New Jersey_.
What is the world coming to when we permit nonsense to be spread around by   
Jersey-ites as if it were opinion from rational people.

Sheesh!

Michael Stern	wam.umd.edu	UMCP....USDA-ARS
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet)
Subject: Re: Who did Cain marry?
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories,  Columbus, Ohio
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 22:42:41 GMT

In article <C0p692.6tn@panix.com> moskowit@panix.com (Len Moskowitz) writes:
>In article <10JAN199320163492@utkvx1.utk.edu> egw@utkvx1.utk.edu
>(Wolpert, Edward Greenwal) writes:
>
>>This question came up between me and a few friends.  If Adam and Eve were the
>>first two people on Earth, who could their childern marry?  (Assuming no
>>incest)
>
>Perhaps he married his twin sister?  Incest was not prohibited at that
>time.

And perhaps Cain and Able each had twin sisters; aren't there
midrashim to that effect?  And where does Lilith come in?
(Not Cheers; the magazine :^)

Also, why assume no incest?

The Torah prohibits incest, and the sages tell us by the time of
Noah, incest was prohibited.  Yet that didn't prevent it from
occurring.  Even King David is descended from an incestous
relationship, after all.
-- 
Art Kamlet  a_s_kamlet@att.com  AT&T Bell Laboratories, Columbus
From: ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Kosher question
Date: 4 Jan 93 07:02:09 GMT
Organization: Math department, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, ISRAEL


In <C0AGBn.ME8@cs.columbia.edu> kasdan@cs.columbia.edu (John Kasdan) writes:

>Are the Kosher laws cumulative?  For example, if I eat a ham and
>cheese sandwich am I violating BOTH the law against eating ham AND the
>law against eating meat with milk, or does the fact that pork is treif
>mean that it doesn't count as meat for the purpose of the prohibition
>of meat with milk?

Sins are always cumulative.
In the Talmud ( Mishna) there is a case where rabu Akiva demonstrates
a case when by a single action one violates 7 orders. ( His friends
said one of those on the list should not be count because it is "not
related to the case ").
The outcome of that is very simple : if you are in a situation where
you must violate either laws A+B+C+D+E+F  or G+H+I+J+..
then act according to the MINIMAX principle:
 do the set of sins the worst among them is of lower level then the
worst in the other set.
If the Maxima are the same check the 2 next to the maxima and so on.
This principle implies that if you have the chice :
  Either A+B  or A alone then ( no matter whether A>B , A=B , A<B)
you should violet A alone.

The punishment in a human court is for the worst among the list of
sins only. But each of the actions is considered a sin.


Eating "a ham and cheese sandwich" means:

1. eating the ham which is definitely a sin.
2. eating the bread which is definitely not a sin ( unless it is a non
   kosher bread.
3. eating the chease which is simmilar to case 2, but in this case the
   possibility that the chease is not kosher is much higher than the
   posibilkity that the bread is not kosher.
As to the question of chease and meat when one of them is treif - I
have to check, asimilar question should be asked as to drinking a pig
blood.
   Shalom   gideon Ehrlich  eretz Yisrael

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent)
Subject: Re: Name of Palestinian Deportees (part i)
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 01:03:14 GMT

In article <4836@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa) writes:
>In article <1992Dec30.162904.7304@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> er@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Elie Rosenfeld) writes:

>>Belonging to Hamas is enough.  Would you refuse to condemn an American who
>>is a member of the KKK, but claims that he "doesn't agree with everything
>>they stand for"?  And Hamas is worse than the KKK, if possible; the KKK
>>doesn't (openly) advocate killing every Jew and black in America.

>By continuing this equation theory only spells out the same thing that
>you accuse innocent people of.  Perhaps you can prove that Hamas actually
>promotes or advocates the murders of Jews and blacks in America or the
>rest of the world.  And perhaps you are not very familiar with the KKK to
>know about their network with their bretheren in Germany, who openly
>kill Jews, blacks, Iranians, and Arabs.

Would I refuse to condemn a KKK member?  No, I'd condemn them.  But I
wouldn't lock them up, kick them out of the country, silence them, or
anything else, until it was shown that THEY had committed an illegal act.

For instance, maybe this person is a racist, but the thing they disagree
with is the idea of violence?  

That makes them an idiot and an asshole, but it doesn't make them dangerous.

Now, if it could be shown that a KKK member had participated in a violent
act, I would have no problem punishing them.  But this guilt-by-association
*punishment* is wrong.  Belonging to the organization itself should not
be a crime.

-- 
David M. Nieporent   | Is it too early to start making predictions for 1993?
niepornt@phoenix.    | Probably, but that never stopped me before.
   princeton.edu     | ALE: Baltimore ALW: Chicago NLE: Montreal NLW: Atlanta
Baltimore Orioles 93 | AL MVP: Cal Ripken  AL Cy Young: Mike Mussina
Organization: The American University - University Computing Center
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 15:01:14 EST
From: <BFANTLE@auvm.american.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Jewish Singers
 <1992Dec31.150307.17507@panix.com> <C0Cn3o.70y@panix.com>
 <C0E240.5u0@panix.com>

Isn't Neil Diamond Jewish?  Barry Manilow is also, along with Linda McCartney.

barry
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: godfrey@vxdesy.desy.de
Subject: Re: DEATH THREAT TO THE JEWS
Organization: (DESY, Hamburg, Germany)
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 00:22:54 GMT

In article <1993Jan8.163106.10006@ac.dal.ca>, black@ac.dal.ca writes:
> 
> 
> 			FARRAKHAN AND JEWISH THREATS
> 
> 
> 	In this great land of YOURS called Amerikkka, we as Black people
> are supposed to have FREEDOM, JUSTICE, AND EQUALITY.  If we do have these
> things why isn't the Jewish community able to take Farrakhan to court for the
> so-called lies that he is supposed to be preaching.  According to Rabbi Oron, 
> and the Jewish Students here in Halifax, Canada, Farrakhan has been calling 
> for the death of Jews.  If this is the case, then Farrakhan should've and
> would've been charged for malicious intent or death threats, he wasn't.

As far as I know, there is no statute that defines malicious intent as a
criminal offence, nor is making death threats against a people a criminal
offence, unless perhaps those threats are made against specific individuals.

> 	On the other hand, Jews have called for the death of Farrakhan.  In 
> most public arenas that Farrakhan speaks, there is a Jewish contingent calling
> for the death of Farrakhan.  For example, one Jew was asked, "Who do you want?"
> the reply was "Farrakhan".  Next they asked, "How do you want him?"; the Jews 
> repliedm, "DEAD".
> 	It seems funny that the people who want Farrakhan charged are the people
> who are obviously guilty of that same supposed crime.  My suggestion to the
> Jews who are asking for the arrainment of Farrakhan is this, leave this brother
> alone.  If you as a people can't deal with the truth then GET THE HELL OUT!!!
> 
> 
> Dr.Kwame Assad BA(Hons) MA  PhD(Oxford)  

Which Oxford is that, brother?  If it's the one in my country it looks like
a mistake may have been made.

Dr. Laurence Godfrey BSc (1st class hons), PhD (London), CPhys, CEng, MIP
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Japanese Antisemitism
From: EXTDSM@LURE.LATROBE.EDU.AU (MADDISON,David)
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 06:47:03 GMT
Organization: La Trobe University
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.24

I remember reading somewhere that Japanese antisemitism is quite different
from "normal" western antisemitism. Because they think that Jews control the
banks, the media, the governments etc they would like to understand how Jews
allegedly do this and assume this role themselves. At least nobody can claim
the Jews control Hollywood anymore, it's mainly owned by the Japanese!

Interestingly, the Japanese Royal Family is said to possess artefacts which are
royal heirlooms, which contain Judaic symbology. There is even a Japanese group
who consider themselves to be Jews and who are descendents of one of the lost
tribes. I am not sure about the Halachic status of these people but I think
it's questionable. These people also say some Japanese words are remarkably 
similar to ancient Hebrew. I cannot remember the exact name of the book where 
I read this but it was about all sorts of Jews around the world, Indian Jews, 
Ethiopians, Japanese, Asian etc etc. It *may* have been called something like 
"Jews of the World". If I get an opportunity I will go to my library and look 
it up.

David Maddison
Melbourne, AUSTRALIA
From: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: DEATH THREAT TO THE JEWS
Date: 10 Jan 93 16:13:28 GMT
Reply-To: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe AZ

In article <1993Jan8.163106.10006@ac.dal.ca> black@ac.dal.ca writes:
 
# 			FARRAKHAN AND JEWISH THREATS
 
	[ article deleted - dlm ]

	Considering this was only posted to scj, I do not think posting
replies to this would do any good.  However, a reply by email letting
this jerk know the score may not be a bad idea.
--
	There are three types of people in the world.  Those that are good
at math and those that are not.

makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight)
Subject: Re: DEATH THREAT TO THE JEWS
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 20:51:05 GMT


>> Dr.Kwame Assad BA(Hons) MA  PhD(Oxford)  
>
>The normal abbreviation is OXON - are you trying to impress us?  Would you
>not know the correct way to state your qualifications if you went to Oxford?

Reminds me of the old joke about some business cards in a country
which I won't name to spare feelings, which said:

"name   BA Oxon (failed)"

This was also the country where some cards said:

"name (Subscriber to Time magazine)"

David


-- 
David Sternlight
RIPEM Public Key on server  --  Consider it an envelope for your e-mail

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,misc.headlines,talk.politics.misc,misc.legal
From: wdstarr@athena.mit.edu (William December Starr)
Subject: Post-acquittal partying (was Crown Heights Jury)
Followup-To: misc.legal
Organization: Northeastern Law, Class of '93
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 17:00:26 GMT


[Note the "Followup-To" redirect(s) to misc.legal only.]

In article <1993Jan7.062517.3789@Princeton.EDU>, 
niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent) said:

> > The defense attorney held a party for the defendant after the
> > verdict which many of the jurors attended.  Strikes me as somewhat
> > unseemly.  If it's not covered by existing ethics rules, it should
> > be.  [Ted Frank]
>
> Later, one of the jurors (a black one, if it matters) was quoted as
> saying that she was led to believe that the party was going to be an
> opportunity for the jurors to ask Nelson some questions they had
> about the case.  She said that when she found out what it really
> was, she left, but that other jurors *were* hanging around
> celebrating with Nelson, and she thought it was pretty
> inappropriate, too.

A minority viewpoint, perhaps, but I don't see what's wrong, ethically
speaking, with either (1) a defense attorney holding a party for the
acquitted defendant to celebrate the victory or (2) with some of the
jurors attending.  (I can see zillions of things wrong with the idea
of jurors attending a party thrown by the defendant or his lawyer
_before_ the verdict is returned, of course, but as I see it, after
the trial is over, everybody involved goes back to being just plain
civilian folks and can associate with whomever they please.)

-- William December Starr <wdstarr@athena.mit.edu>

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: warren@itexjct.jct.ac.il (Warren Burstein)
Subject: Re: Kahane's philosophy
Organization: ITEX, Jerusalem, Israel
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 05:45:24 GMT

In <1993Jan3.211249.26278@ennews.eas.asu.edu> makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky) writes:

>	I disagree.  If anyone does take him literally than that person
>has problems that would not be helped by anything Binyamin would do.
>The only difference is that the time and or target might be different.

Perhaps someone might think that Binyanin actually intends what he
says.  What is to prevent this from happening?  What happened to Avot
1:11?

>	As for Binyamin personally, making those statements is certainly a
>lot healthier than actually acting them out.

Well yes, actions that simply run the risk of inciting someone else to
murder are to be preferred to murder.  Better yet is silence.

me: From your point of view David, would it not be a desecration of the
me: memory of his father for an act of murder to be attributed to his
me: purported followers?

>	Yes.  However, only an anti semite would pin something like this
>on Binyamin unless Binyamin had something more to do with it than
>uttering a very understandable feeling.

I sincerly hope that I shall be spared the opportunity to so demonstrate
my antisemitism.
-- 
/|/-\/-\      
 |__/__/_/    
 |warren@     
/ nysernet.org
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.german
From: CPLS13@email.mot.com (Steven_Cohn)
Subject: Re: Eruv
Organization: Motorola_CoveragePLUS
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 08:19:19 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.jewish

In article <1993Jan8.035731.20236@ennews.eas.asu.edu>,
makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky) wrote:
> 
> In article <CPLS13-070193164055@145.1.92.160> CPLS13@email.mot.com (Steven_Cohn) writes:
> 
> # In article <5258@ceylon.gte.com>, sg04@gte.com (Yechezkal Shimon Gutfreund)
> # wrote:
>  
> # > Well, for the first time in my life I live in a communitity that has
> # > has an eruv. 18 or so years after its inception, Boston has an eruv. It
> # > is reported to be the largest one in the US. It covers almost all of
> # > Brookline, Brighton, and Newton (rt 9, to the Mass-Pike, from Kenmore
> # > Square to about route 128). It is a huge area that includes several
> # > large reservoirs and lakes (I believe they are excluded).
>  
> # > When instigated, I believe the planners felt that this would stem the
> # > decline of Jewish Boston. Since then, Boston certainly has declined.
> # > Maybe this will change things, but I seriously doubt it. Boston has
> # > some much more severe problems. And I think that putting one's efforts
> # > into an eruv sort of "skirts the heart of the matter" :-).
>  
> # Even better, there is now an eruv in Chicago!!!  While we were able to
> # institute an eruv in Skokie (a north suburb of Chicago) about a year ago,
> # the Chicago eruv became functional about 2 weeks ago.  We are finally a
> # REAL jewish city now!
> 
> 
> 	I would not tell that to a Brisker if I were you.
> 
> 	For those who are interested, there is a vicous battle going on in
> Chicago over the Eruv.  There is a history over this battle which I
> will not go into except to say some people have been taking ads out in
> every issue of every Jewish publication that will let them saying that
> those who carry on Shabbos inside the Chicago eruv are being Shabbos
> violators of the worst kind.
> --
> 	There are three types of people in the world.  Those that are good
> at math and those that are not.
> 
> makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu

Yes, it has been quite vicious, and it really is a shame, since one of the
main purposes of an eruv is to make for a more cohesive "community".  As
for the aspect of "Shabbos violation", most of this is smoke and being done
because of the feelings of the Brisk Rosh Yeshiva, who is violently against
the eruv (the main "publicly stated" reason is that of "maris ayin").  I'm
not sure about the Chicago eruv, but for the Skokie eruv, our main poskin
was haRav Gedalis Schwartz, Av Bet Din of the CRC (Chicago Rabinical
Council - "O"), so we are fairly confident in it's halachic standing.

I certainly hope that this deviceness in the Chicago community can quikly
end, since in Skokie the eruv has done a tremendous amount to help our
community grow and become a "warmer" place to live.  In fact, we even had
cooperation from all the rabbanim in the community - O, C, R, Chabad!

Steven Cohn
Motorola CoveragePLUS Engineering
CPLS13@EMAIL.MOT.COM
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.arabic
From: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Subject: Re: ERETZ YISRAEL (was Re: deportation)
Followup-To: soc.culture.arabic
Reply-To: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe AZ
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 20:05:56 GMT

In article <1993Jan7.020316.22229@trl.oz.au> a.Faris@trl.oz.au  writes:

# In article <1i6pepINN7ou@pita.cs.huji.ac.il>, aplebaum@irs01.cs.huji.ac.il (Hillel Applebaum) writes:
 
# |> if the name 'palestine' is history, ERETZ-YISRAEL is prehistory. we were
# |> here first. Relearn your history Mr. Turner.

# You are very wrong Mr. Applebaum, the Palestinians are direct decendants of
# the Canaanites and they were definately there first. Offcourse, you do not
# beleive in Archaeology and prefer to beleive the Bible and all its wonderful
# promises. You have enough propaganda and guns to make many people beleive
# that while victimising an entire Palestinian population as in the past.

	Gee, Faris, I wish I could get my history out of a Cracker Jack
box also.
--
	There are three types of people in the world.  Those that are good
at math and those that are not.

makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu
From: moskowit@panix.com (Len Moskowitz)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Jewish Singers
Date: 4 Jan 93 21:45:24 GMT
Organization: Panix Public Access Internet & Unix, NYC

In article <1992Dec31.150307.17507@panix.com> bri@panix.com (Brian Shanblatt) writes:
>In article <1992Dec31.002438.978@speedy.aero.org> nadel@attatash.aero.org (Miriam Nadel) writes:
>>
>>On a more highbrow note, I just learned the other day that Bizet (the
>>It is rather astonishing how many Jews have been involved in the American
>>musical theatre.  Aside from the most obvious (Berlin, the Gershwins,
>>Bernstein, Hammerstein), just offhand I can think of:
>>Jule Styne
>>Bob Merrill (actually, I'm not positive about this one)
>>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>you are correct.  robert merrill is jewish. like jan peerce and richard
>tucker, he started as a hazzan, and found his way to the opera!

I seem to recall my Dad saying that Robert Merril and Jan Pierce were
brothers.


-- 
Len Moskowitz
moskowit@panix.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish