HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Dennis W. Watson <watson@clark.edu>
Subject: Re: Steve Jackson Games' "Hackers" too much like "Illuminati"?
X-Xxmessage-Id: <A78C076A16018CFD@watsdw.sci.clark.edu>
X-Xxdate: Wed, 27 Jan 93 09:33:30 GMT
Organization: Clark College
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d16
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 17:33:48 GMT

Subject: Steve Jackson Games' "Hackers" too much like "Illuminati"?
From: Mika O. Latokartano, mol@jyu.fi
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 11:55:34 GMT
In article <1993Jan27.115534.23170@jyu.fi> Mika O. Latokartano,
mol@jyu.fi writes:
>
>  Having recently become devastatingly aware of the ongoing conspiracies
>  everywhere and currently contemplating on the obvious connections
>  between Kibo and Fnord, I'm considering the option of plunging into
>  another potentially eye-opening experience offered us by the
>  conspiracy-ridden SJG; Hackers.  My worry is, that "Hackers" seems
>  a lot like the original addiction (i.e. Illuminati).  What's the
>  word?  Should I go for it, or let it pass, and still remain at least
>  somewhat assured that the network is still safe?
>
>	- Mika
GO FOR IT!  Sorry about the shouting, but it is NOT just another
Illuminati.  What it is is FUN!
Just my $.02 worth.
Dennis
watson@clark.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
From: crowsond@mayo.edu (Doug Crowson)
Subject: HeroQuest
Reply-To: crowsond@mayo.edu
Organization: Mayo Foundation
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 21:15:16 GMT

Greetings.  I have some questions regarding some interpretations of
the rules for HeroQuest from MB.  Some of these refer to to the new
quest packs (Elf & Barbarian).

1)  Spell Cancellation

    How does one handle multiple (and possibly conflicting) spells
    cast on the same character?  For instance Zargon casts Fear (1
    attack die) on the Elf who has Courage (+2 attack dice).  Does the
    Elf have 3 attacks (Fear + Courage = fearfully courageous?) or
    just 1 (Fear)...We decided to stack the spells, stating he was
    Fearful until he broke the spell, and then remained Courageous.
    Alternatively, Fear could cancel Courage altogether, but some
    argued Courage lasts until no more monsters are visible, therefore
    it could not be cancelled.

2)  Barbarian Quest Pack:  Ice Gremlins and Yeti

    Can Yeti roll defend dice while hugging?  They can not make other
    attacks, but can they defend?  I (Zargon) vote yes...the Heros, no.

    If an Ice Gremlin moves first, then steals something, does he
    still get to run?  (Our group loves to nit pick)  Some argue
    stealing is an action, and as such terminates the movement phase.
    I should think he can use his remaining movement points in the
    escape, if not the full 10.


3)  Jumping Long Pits

    Do the Rabbit Boots and the Potion of Dexterity behave differently
    when dealing with long pits (eg. the ones in the Elf pack).  If
    the Rabbit Boots fail a normal pit jump on a black shield, should
    they not then fail a long pit jump on a white shield, or even a skull?

    And does the Potion of Dexterity _really_ guarantee a long pit jump?
    
    
---
Douglas Crowson                         Rochester, MN  55905
Information Services                    (507) 284-5538
Mayo Foundation                         crowsond@mayo.edu


Newsgroups: rec.games.board
From: Michael.Schwuchow@arbi.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de (Michael Schwuchow)
Subject: Re: Lord Of The Rings boardgames?
Organization: University of Oldenburg, Germany
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 17:12:45 GMT

Recently the Laurin Verlag published a game, called "Ringgeister".
Its theme is the way of the hobbits toward the fire-mountain.
There are nine black ringwraiths, nine black orcs and one black gollum in
play, who all stand at least in the way.
Additionally with some moves, the board itself will change.
(It is made out of 19 patterns, which can be turned)
In the first part, the up to four players have to cooperate to move the
enemies out of the way. In the second part, that player will win, who's
Halfling arrives first at the "Schicksalskluefte", while a randomly
chosen card shows, that he has the ring in this turn.

Its a nice game, but I can't imagine any winning strategy. That's because
the ways on the board are really twisted and additionally are retwisted,
whenever one pattern is turned.

Greetings, Micha
-- 
!   Michael Schwuchow  Oldenburg, FRG/RFA/BRD  UUCP: schwuchow@uniol.UUCP  !
-Autofahren ist asozial:   Mit anderen Verkehrsmitteln kommt man gesuender,-
-umweltschonender, kommunikativer, platzsparender, volkswirtschaftlich -----
-billiger, und (mit Finanzbedarfszeitaufwand) meist schneller ans Ziel. ----
From: caraher@pn32.petnet.med.umich.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
Subject: Re: CWJ Annual WiF-special issue
Date: 28 Jan 1993 14:11:47 GMT
Organization: pet/cyclotron
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: 141.214.73.194

In article <1993Jan27.123508.1@cubldr.colorado.edu>
gregory_b@cubldr.colorado.edu (Brian Gregory) writes:
>So, has anybody seen/head of this yet?  By my reckoning, it's about
>3 months tardy on its release date, and more than a month past its
>revised publ. date.

On GEnie CWJ said it went to the printer Tuesday of last week.
From: caraher@pn32.petnet.med.umich.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
Subject: Re: The Speed of Heat
Date: 28 Jan 1993 14:25:22 GMT
Organization: pet/cyclotron
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: 141.214.73.194

Air Power issue 23 (soon to be mailed to subscribers) contains official errata;
they should also soon be available from Clash of Arms. A previous issue (21 or
22) included data card revisions for Air Sup/Air Strike for integration with
the TSoH rules. I think GDW has relinquished the rights to the modern stuff, so
after JD Webster polishes off his WWII game Air Sup II will be the next
project.

For Air Power subscription and back issue info email me at
caraher@pn32.petnet.med.umich.edu or see the flyer in your copy of TSoH.
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
From: shaibani@parker.rsip.lsu.edu (Sanan B. Shaibani)
Subject: Re A&A Destroyer
Organization: Computer Science Dept., Tulane Univ., New Orleans, LA
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 07:53:11 GMT
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-16316]: parker.rsip.lsu.edu

In an expantion that i have for the game the cost of destroyer is 
given as 15 ipc they attack/def  at 3 /3 and no land attack.

Another good rule is the port rule which gives the deffending ships
a 50 % change to retriet to a home port one hex away.
From: heinlein@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (The tired one)
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
Subject: Divine Right and Dragon #34 for sale by auction
Date: 26 Jan 1993 22:54:20 -0600
Organization: Kansas State University
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: matt.ksu.ksu.edu

Hi all, I have the following items for sale by auction.  Due to their 
nature, I'll be selling them together.

Divine Right, by TSR:  Box is in good condition, with some wear on the
corners.  Map and pieces and cards are all in excellent condition.

Dragon #34:  In near mint condition, has a number of Divine Right 
articles and expansions.  The cardboard insert has been removed, but is in
the Divine Right box, and is intact.

Minimum bid of $50.00

email bids to:

heinlein@matt.ksu.ksu.edu


-- 
Gee, I finally made a .sig file. Isn't it grand?
Chris Green is way cool. :)   My idols are camels.  OH! You wanted sarcasm,
well, just go read my .plan then. :)  - Mike Monthey heinlein@matt
From: drcheng@sales.GBA.NYU.EDU (David R Cheng)
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
Subject: Re: Looking for Cosmic Encounters, Illuminati
Date: 21 Jan 93 20:59:55 GMT
Organization: NYU Stern School of Business

The old Cosmic Encounters was produced by Eon Games, and is long out
of print.

However, Mayfair Games (makers of DC Heroes, Chill, and many others)
now produce it.

Call any decent dealer: they are bound to be able to supply you.

Sorry I don't have a phone # in front of me for you.

-David Cheng
 drcheng@sales.stern.nyu.edu


Newsgroups: rec.games.board
From: ahabig@bigbang.astro.indiana.edu (Alec Habig)
Subject: Re: New Illuminati
Organization: Indiana University Astrophysics, Bloomington, IN
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 21:17:15 GMT

In article <C1DFJM.7uq@news.cso.uiuc.edu> gdewan@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (Geoffrey DeWan) writes:
>aa699@Freenet.carleton.ca (Michel Boucher) writes:
>
>>In a previous article, wilhelm@cs.cornell.edu (Wilhelm Uwe Georg) says:
>
>>>Hey, I can't believe, that noone came up with any new ones.
>
>>Actually, Uwe, the original pocket box game of Illuminati had three
>>expansion sets.  If you're talking about the new Deluxe Illuminati
>>(well...newer), I don't know what it had.  The expansion sets had
>>additional cards and one even had a board on which to play.
>
>It comes with the first 2 expansion sets.  They knew better then to put in the
>third.

Uh, methinks he's talking about the "design your own" Illuminati (those blank
cards, yaknow).  Unfortunately, I don't have any to post, although a friend was
working on "the Vatican" (dunno why they're not a group already, actually).

	Alec
From: rzsj@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
Subject: Adeptus Titanicus
Date: 26 Jan 93 23:02:43 EST
Distribution: rec
Organization: Cornell University

     Does anyone out there realize what an injustice they have done to
Titans in the new Space Marine rules?  Its terrible!  They pretty much 
disregard them, and they don't give them battle ratings or anything!
Perssonally, I like to have pure Titan battles, using the detailed damage
system from the Codex.  I do like the aiming rules for titans, however.
Anybody got any opinions?

XXXXX
SHONE
XXXXX
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
From: btrusso@ADS.COM (Brad Trusso)
Subject: Re: Mutual annihilation
Organization: Advanced Decision Systems, Mtn. View, CA (415) 960-7300
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 22:10:42 GMT

From: joltman@raisin-nut.ai.mit.edu (T. Andy Frakes)
> The question is NOT "does the threat work."  According to that mentality,
> if you make one move that gives you a good recruit only on a roll of "4"
> as opposed to an alternate move that gives you a good recruit on any roll
> except a "4" and you roll a "4" next move, then you made the right choice.

You are right when the outcome is determined solely by chance.  In your
case, you can mathematically prove that the second move maximizes your
chances.  The first move worked by pure dumb luck, not skill (unless
you want to consider precognition  8^).

I was talking about interaction between people, with chance only a
side issue.  Player A is about to attack B.  B tries to persuade A
to do something else.  B succeeds in the short run solely by
convincing A to do something else.  B fails in the short run when A 
attacks anyway.  The luck of the die only determines the extent of A's 
damage during the attack, and of B's damage during the revenge.  Also, 
B succeeds in the long run when his/her established reputation convinces 
A (or others) to do something else the next time.  And B fails in the 
longer run when his/her opponents finally adopt a "no blackmail" policy.
At least B gained something in the mean time.  (8^)  And if the response
to the very first threat is "I will not be blackmailed", then B can
graciously withdraw the threat without losing a thing.  You can't
blame a guy for trying!  (8^)


> If you're in a tournament (or playing a game in a tournament mentality), you
> should forget about the threat unless it will be to the person's advantage to
> follow through with it.

That's an interesting statement.  A "no blackmail" policy means that you
"forget about the threat", regardless of the result of following through.  
If following through is actually to their advantage even now (and not
just possibly in the long run), the "threat" is really "advice":  
"Go ahead and attack, if you think that's your best move.  Then my
best move will be to (...) because (...).  Maybe you should reconsider
whether that would be your best move."  This is perfectly consistent
with everyone playing to win, or place as high as possible.

If you want to have a "just play the situation on the board" game,
with no verbal interaction, that's fine.  Actually, my favorite game 
is Go, which is just that kind of game.  (It's purely a game of skill 
on the board, like Chess.)  I'm just saying that the interplay of
threats and counter-threats can also be fun, if you approach them
in the right spirit.

- Brad Trusso
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
From: ahabig@bigbang.astro.indiana.edu (Alec Habig)
Subject: Re: VGs The Civil War question
Organization: Indiana University Astrophysics, Bloomington, IN
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 12:25:01 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.211150.19602@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> zippy@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (steven.s.albert) writes:
>Well, we ran into another ambiguous situation and wonder what
>you have for house rules.  I don't have the rule book with me,
>but the gist of the problem is that cavalry can not control VP
>cities in enemy territory.  There is also a rule that "dropped
>off" cavalry sps turn into infantry and there is a note that you
>probably want house rules on this to avoid abusing the rule.

I'm not sure as to what the answer might be in the context of the rules, but
historically, Civil War cavalry was closer to mounted infantry than the classic
concept of cavalry.  Since they usually fought dismounted anyway, I'd have no
problem with a unit of cav turning into infantry in this case.

Of course, I'm a complete novice at the game, so take my opinion with a shaker
of salt :)  Our local Civil War guru would have a better answer - Gary, your
opinion?

	Alec
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
From: mfh@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (mitchell.hansinger)
Subject: ***  GAMES FOR SALE  ***
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 13:31:13 GMT



Crimebusters - $4
12 classic mysteries to solve for 1 to any number of players.

Chauvinist Pigs - $10
The game that finally resolves the battle of the sexes by revealing which sex is
smarter.

Sweet Revenge - $5
Jigsaw puzzle mystery by BePuzzled, being stocked by many gamestores now.




You pay shipping.  Willing to trade for other games.  All offers welcome.


Thanks,

-Mitchel

Newsgroups: rec.games.board
From: shoham@ll.mit.edu (Daniel Shoham)
Subject: Re: Duration and monster games
Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 02:32:43 GMT

In article <1993Jan26.000029.10847@news.arc.nasa.gov> nicholso@pioneer.arc.nasa.gov (Melvin H. Nicholson YBH) writes:

>Titan: 4-8 hours (much longer while learning to play)
>Republic of Rome: 5-7 hours
  3-6 hours

>1830: 5-7 hours
  3-4 hours

>Merchant of Venus: ???????
  2-3 hours

Euro-rail
  3-4 hours

Victory in the Pacific
  3-4 hours

Acquire
 1 hour

Brittania
 6-8 hours

Stellar Conquest
 4-7 hours

Axis & Allies
 7-12 hours

Stratego
 1 hour


The above numbers are for our game group where players are experienced and a
general "keep-the-games-moving" attitude prevails.


Dan Shoham               shoham@ll.mit.edu
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The view presented are not necessarily those of my employer, etc.

Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Lincoln Laboratory
244 Wood Street
Lexington Massachusetts, 02173-9108
Office B-373
617-981-3515
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: rec.games.board
From: bchapman@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Bruce Patrick Chapman)
Subject: Starfall
Followup-To: 9005904@sscvax.cis.mcmaster.ca 
Organization: chaos unlimitedB
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 06:55:54 GMT

greetings.
	if anyone yas heard of the game starfall, or knows where it
can be located, could you please send me e-mail - i read this
newsgroup on an irregular basis.

thanks in advance,
cheers
c.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This is forwarded mail.  Please send all comments etc. to the following
		address: <9005904@mcmaster.bitnet>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
From: actinc@dixie.com (Atlanta Computer Technology)
Subject: Re: A&A Game Balance
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 93 02:30:26 GMT
Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access.  The Mouth of the South.
Distribution: rec.games.board

rpc@moscom.com (Robert Colbey) writes:

>f12008ad@triton.unm.edu writes:

>>     Most people agree that the Allies have a distinct advantage in a normal
>>game of A&A.  I agree.  I think that the game is nearly balanced, though,
>>when the Russian no first attack rule is used.  This gives the Axis powers the
>>beginning.  I would propose to give Germany an extra infantry or fighter in
>>Libya at the beginning.  This would ensure that Germany could win the

>The allies do indeed have a distinct advantage. However, since my strategy
>as Russia includes NOT attacking on the first round, I tend to disagree with
>your conclusion that this will help the Axis. I do agree that the Axis needs
>a little boost, but an extra infantry in Libya won't do it, either.

>NO new industrial centers. This favors the Axis because it keeps the Allies'

>Germany gets the Rockets development, with the following restrictions:
>rocket attacks are only allowed from the AA in Western Europe against
>Great Britain (no rocket attacks are allowed against Russia).

>Japan gets kamikazee fighters. Japanese fighters may fly all 4 spaces

>Bombers may be used to transport 1 infantry instead of bombs. The infantry
>The infantry which is transported must be in the space from which the
>bomber takes off at the beginning of its flight. One nice thing about

Well, I guess that those are some good restrictions, but the ones that 
I play with are:

	- No Russian first attack
	- No new insudtrial centers
	- Allow Berlin 1 extra industrial point from the beginning of the
		game.

These seem to work good.  Lately though I seem to have gotten in a rut.  It
seems that the Axis can win by having Germany building infantry & sitting.
They just wait for Japan to grow to be enormous and win the game.

Newsgroups: rec.games.board,ne.forsale,misc.forsale
From: saf@world.std.com (Sandra A Flaherty)
Subject: GAMES FOR SALE
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 22:13:05 GMT


	I have the following games for sale.  Please send
	all bids to tom@dmr.com.  Bidding will close on
	February 10.  All games are in good to very good
	condition.

		Gunslinger (Avalon Hill)
		Duel Track (Steve Jackson)
		Car Wars Deluxe Edition (Steve Jackson)
		Federation Space (Task Force Games)
		Star Fleet Battles (with expansion kits 1-3)
		Convoy (pre-programmed adventure for Car Wars)
		Autoduel Quarterly Vol. 4 #1
		Best of Autoduel Quarterly Vol. #1


	Thanks,

	Tom Flaherty
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
From: widmer@avalon.physik.unizh.ch (widmer christian)
Subject: Re: Adeptus Titanicus
Organization: University of Zurich, Department of Computer Science
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Distribution: rec
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 10:54:23 GMT

rzsj@vax5.cit.cornell.edu writes:
:      Does anyone out there realize what an injustice they have done to
: Titans in the new Space Marine rules?  Its terrible!  They pretty much 
: disregard them, and they don't give them battle ratings or anything!
: Perssonally, I like to have pure Titan battles, using the detailed damage
: system from the Codex.  I do like the aiming rules for titans, however.
: Anybody got any opinions?
: 
: XXXXX
: SHONE
: XXXXX
From: peters@physics.ubc.ca (Dan Peters)
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
Subject: Re: Republic of ROME question, HELP
Date: 26 Jan 1993 04:06:21 GMT
Organization: The University of British Columbia
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: physics.ubc.ca

nicholso@pioneer.arc.nasa.gov (Melvin H. Nicholson YBH) writes:

>Revolt is DECLARED in the Revolution Phase, at which time the rebellion
>becomes part of the stress which lends to fall fall of Rome (so in your
>case, your Rebllion cause the Emipre to collapse immediately, and the
>whole point of Rebelling (to capture the Empire INTACT) is lost.)

Wait a minute.... There would _not_ be immediate collapse in this case. Rome
falls if there are four or more active wars at the end of the COMBAT PHASE.
It doesn't matter if another war appears in the Revolution Phase (except of
course that this will add to the costs to the state in the upcoming Revenue
Phase).

Drin
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I think I think, therefore I think I am." 
- Descartes' failed attempt to discard the notion of objective reality.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
From: bethmo@microsoft.com (Beth Moursund)
Subject: Re: A postal bid system
Date: 28 Jan 93 05:50:13 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation
Distribution: na

In article <1k53poINNedv@KOALA.ZOO.CS.YALE.EDU> schwarz-marc@cs.yale.edu (Marc Schwarz) writes:
>Well, for one, none of these auction agreements appear 
>to be legally binding.  Briefly, in order to have a

[followed by long description of legal contracts]

Hee hee hee ha ha ho ho ho...

There's no way ANYTHING done on the net is going to be legally binding --
it's far to easy to forge messages, and there's no way to prove that
the person you think you have a contract with actually sent the
message.

As long as the buyers and sellers are both satisfied, who cares?


Newsgroups: rec.games.board
From: pmwg1641@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Peter M. White)
Subject: Re: Republic of ROME question, HELP
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 03:54:56 GMT

In article <1993Jan26.194727.5018@news.arc.nasa.gov> nicholso@pioneer.arc.nasa.gov (Melvin H. Nicholson YBH) writes:
>
>1) How should a faction who loses it's leader to an assination be
>treated.  When should that faction be allowed to appoint a new leader
>assuming it was not eliminated?
Appointing a new Faction Leader takes place during the Forum phase.
Note that this is after the revenue phase; so, no senator in that
faction gets the three talents instead of the standard one.

>
>2) If the faction leader is a caught assassin, does the prosecution
>end with his death?

The most reasonable answer is that the FL is considered prosecuted
and found guilty.  A caught assassin is automatically known to
be guilty, and, therefore, instantly dispatched.  Draw mortality
chips equal to the victim's Popularity against the offending faction.

>3) if the censor is either the victim of a successful assassination where
>the assassin is caught, or is a caught assassin, who conduct the
>prosecution?

Good one.  I am quite certain they did not cover that one in the rules.
How about the HRAO who is not a member of the assassinating faction?


--Peter
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
From: books@fsunuc.physics.fsu.edu (Roger Books)
Subject: Re: Lord Of The Rings boardgames?
Organization: FSU nuclear physics
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 93 13:48:07 GMT

In article <009673CD.7C717A60@abby.chem.ucla.edu> doug@abby.chem.ucla.edu writes:

>Yes, there's "War of the Ring" (which is the one you are referring to
>specifically).  There are also two other SPI (out of print, of course) games
>called "Gondor" and "Sauron."  I know of two Hobbit-based games published by
>Iron Crown Enterprises (don't know if they're still in print or not), called
>"The Lonely Mountain" and "The Battle of Five Armies."  I vaguely recall seeing
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>one called "The Fellowship of the Ring," but I don't know who makes that one
>and doubt it is still in print.
>

Is this the one where several different groups have to get in and steal
the treasure before Smaug wakes up?  There is an interesting problem in
this one, they didn't account for someone killing Smaug.  You have to
roll a 0 on 2d6, but Elves get +1 with bows and can get +1 arrows.  I
killed Smaug the very first game we played.  They declared me the winner
even though someone had escaped with more treasure.

Roger
books@fsunuc.physics.fsu.edu
From: cinabro@lns598.tn.cornell.edu (Dave Cinabro)
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
Subject: Ancients I and II by 3W
Date: 23 Jan 1993 21:24:55 -0500
Organization: Wilson Lab, Cornell U., Ithaca, NY  14853
Distribution: w
NNTP-Posting-Host: lns717.tn.cornell.edu
Summary: Reviews wanted for Ancients I and II

I saw these two games in the game store this weekend and wonder
if someone who has played them could post a review.

			Dave Cinabro

	
Newsgroups: rec.games.board