HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: WYNNE.C@fs.sciences.WLU.EDU
Subject:      Re: LL miracles
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
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Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 17:04:19 GMT

oakes@jupiter.nmt.edu (David Oakes) writes:

> jgl writes:
>! Cleanse Land
>! When LL came to CE, toxic waste suddenly became a problem.  This
>! miracle is a response to that problem. Successful invocation restores
>! the soil to its original state (yes, this includes getting rid of
>! fertilizer).  The first difficulty number is for temporary change, the
>! second for permanency.
>
> sounds real good.
> of course, the LL doesnt care about fertilizer -
> they ARE the largest source of rotting organic material ever...

Chemical fertilisers.  Dead (never having lived) sorta stuff.

>  ! Animate Wood
>  ! This miracle brings wood back to life, and enables the caster to
>  ! control it (Will all characters in my CoC campaign now make SAN
>  ! checks?).  This can be useful for attacking people inside buildings.
>  ! It also can make a great lockpick substitute.
>
> i dont know, that seems more the province of Rec Stalek -
> if Lanala had any power over dead things, edinos wouldnt worry about
> death (of course, this could be part of BKs twisting the religion,
>  but i cant see a "true believer" animating a dead thing)
> also, very few edinos have ever seen dead wood in the LL,
> so the miracle would be very rare

So, it allows a jakatt to control live wood.  It would be like Tharkold's
Animate Cables, except more like Animate Vines and Branches.

CJW

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
==  Colin J. Wynne                      wynne.c@fs.science.wlu.edu  ==
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
|  Heaven:   A place where the French are the cooks, the German are  |
|             the engineers, and the British are the policemen.      |
|                                                                    |
|  Hell:     A place where the British are the cooks, the French are |
|             the engineers, and the German are the policemen.       |
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: oakes@jupiter.nmt.edu (David Oakes)
Subject: Shatterzone
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
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Organization: University of North Texas
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Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 18:28:17 GMT


while the anti-matter asteroid field is certainly interesting,
and so far WEG has been good about novel background (if not execution),
i have to ask:

does this all (mega-corps and far space) sound just like TSRs "Buck Rogers"?

dave "is this game really necessary?" oakes
From: gdavis@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Grant R. Davis)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
Subject: Re: Question, and toons.
Date: 28 Aug 92 14:44:19 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

In article <gatemail1.0b23819311919049@morticia> michael@stb.info.com (Michael Gersten) writes:


>If you have 500 years to prepare for an invasion, or even 50 to 200 years,  
>and you can produce, say, one spare stelae a week, thats 50 stelae a year,  
>or 500 stelae in one decade. If you know that you are invading a world that  
>is going to be a problem, why not first stockpile all the stelae you need, and
>then place all of them before you drop a bridge, so no one notices. 

It doesn't just take time to make stelae, it also takes possibility energy;
the average dominant zone gives you enough energy to charge 3 stelae, or
shift an axiom 1 level, or make you 3 years younger, or a few other things
I forget. 

The Grant Man
gdavis@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu

"This is good[beer]. Remind me to take this world."-Lost Destiny
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: Rick Jones <albert@crick.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu>
Subject: Re:  super skill grumbles
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
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Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 20:54:21 GMT

> 
> A question -- Are you only allowed ONE pulp power?  Or as many as you think 
> you can afford?  One character was a Terran "Super Trooper" prototype, with 
> SupeSuper Strength, SUper Tou, Super Persuasion and Super Fire Combat.  
> Cost 12.  Is this valid?
>    -- Burton

	You can have as many as you can afford.  Just remember that if you
don't pay the adventure cost, you lose the power.  And if you run a lot
of one-acts, like I do, you're either going to lose powers or hover around 
0 possibilities.

-- 
Rick Jones				Systems Support Center
albert@bcm.tmc.edu			Baylor College of Medicine
Voice: 713-798-7352			standard disclaimers apply
    Wanted:Scrodinger's Cat.  Dead or Alive.  $10,000 Reward.
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: burt@ptltd.com (Burton Choinski)
Subject: Re:  super skill grumbles
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
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Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 20:45:06 GMT

Unfortunately, he does have Super Fire Combat.

A question -- Are you only allowed ONE pulp power?  Or as many as you think you can afford?  One character was a Terran "Super Trooper" prototype, with SupeSuper Strength, SUper Tou, Super Persuasion and Super Fire Combat.  Cost 12.  Is this valid?
   -- Burton
d
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: Rick Jones <albert@crick.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu>
Subject: Re: cosm placement (hindsight) (was Re: GENcon)
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
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Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 15:17:30 GMT

> you know, the LL-Viet Nam analogy just struck me:
> unwinnable war, against primative opponents, dense jungle,
> soldiers (PCs) dont want to be there, public (gamers) doesnt want it, care
> hell, just that miniscule thread saves the LL.
> to bad WEG didnt think of it before
> (of course, the SB is still a load of Bor Aka droppings)

	Actually, I thought they did point out the Viet Nam connection
in there somewhere.  It may have been on GEnie, now that I think of it.
Were I to run another LL adventure (which I may do before it goes
bye-bye), I would push the VN aspects of it.  

-- 
Rick Jones				Systems Support Center
albert@bcm.tmc.edu			Baylor College of Medicine
Voice: 713-798-7352			standard disclaimers apply
    Wanted:Scrodinger's Cat.  Dead or Alive.  $10,000 Reward.
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: wolf@cheshire.oxy.edu (Clinton Richard Wolf)
Subject: Re: disconnection and axiom levels
Organization: Occidental College, Los Angeles, CA 90041 USA.
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 20:58:14 GMT

In article <gatemail1.0b2431522427998@morticia> hudson@dragon.cpe.ulowell.edu (Kevin Maurice Hudson) writes:
>
>==> On 31 Aug 92 19:33:53 GMT, Clinton Richard Wolf said:
>  CRW>  Well, I don't think this is true, for two reasons... one, when
>  CRW> he disconnects, he is now operating under LL axioms, so using
>  CRW> the tool to reconnect IS a four case contradiction... 
>
>	Reconnection is never a contradiction.  Four-case
>contradictions only modify the target number of the attempt to
>reconnect.
>
        I didn't mean reconnection was a contradiction. I meant that if you dis
connect in the Living Land, both you and the land have tech 7, so using your
tool (which has higher tech than both) to reconnect is a four-case...

>  CRW> if you don't interpret it this way, an Akashan using say, a
>  CRW> short bow, has the same difficulty reconnecting as one using
>  CRW> the Ray?!? I figure the Eo1 can reconcile Tech 8 with Tech 7
>  CRW> easier than reconciling tech 30 with tech 7... 
>	
>	Actually, no.  The Eo1 is not that discriminating.  Either it
>is a contradiction or it is not.  Either it is a double contradiction
>(4-case) or it is not.  There is no distinction between two or more 
>contradictions that are seperated by one level of the axiom.
>
        I don't buy this... I still think the Eo1 resists a contradiction with
a difference of 1 less than a contradiction with a difference of 23. I mean,
that's why axioms raise or lower by only one or two points at a time, and only
in certain areas, unless some huge event (like the CP surge) occurs...

>  CRW> why bother using low-tech weapons?
>
>	They are more useful if they are not a contradiction in the
>place you are visiting.  Anywhere else, they have their drawbacks.
>
         Well, as you will. I like my interpretation, and so do my players,
since they liked roleplaying operating under the different realities when
they disco'd... And it encourages players to stick closer to the axiom levels
of the Land they're in, while still allowing no ill effects for using mega-
tech (spells/ideas/miracles) unless you disconnect, at which point the Eo1
stomps on you until you get back to your own cosm, or at least one that has
comparable axioms to your own... call it an optional rule :)

         And it sure does help balance out those Gravitic Rays! :)
From: gblake@nope (Greg Blake)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
Subject: Looking for players...
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 16:51:19 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: nope.ucsd.edu

I'm heading out to San Diego to live in a few weeks, and am looking for
some possible players in a TORG game I will be running.  Just email
me at snooze@rever.nmsu.edu

thanks
snooze

Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: Jim Ogle (Ks. Jim) <jogle@aoc.nrao.edu>
Subject: Re: GenCon Report (Incredibly long, thousands of spoilers)
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 20:23:13 GMT

Rick writes:

>>again, WEG would rather pander to an american audience, than make a whole game.
>>post-invasion Egypt is already Chicago, just a few Nile touches!!!

> 	Well, consider that they've taken a _lot_ of abuse (somewhat
> deserved IMHO) for dropping the Living Land in the US.  Most gamers
> for good or bad, do not like the LL.  It makes adventuring in the USA 
> more difficult, as PC's don't want to slog through the jungles.

I think the problem was that WEG didn't support the Living Land well
enough to make it interesting.  Their original intention was to
contrast the "materialistic" nature of America against the situation
in the Living Land but all they ever did with it was dinosaur hunts
and 'rescue the hostage' situations.

> 	Off the top of my head, were I in WEG's shoes (and with 20/20 
> hindsight), here's how I would have done it.

> 	America is invaded by Marketplace.  The Japanese element is 
> toned down, and watch as America is bought out.  The Delphi Council
> becomes _much_ more insidious.

It would have been all right, but I much prefer the Japanese feel of
everything as it makes it more interesting.

> 	Aysle, Nile Empire and Cyberpapacy remain where they are.  They are
> tied to the region, so should be left as is.  The Cyberpapacy would
> have been much more agressive, and expanded into Eastern Europe.  Aysle 
> remains stable.  There's no reason for Malreaux to be so pokey, though.

Agreed.  Malraux should have called for a crusade against the evil
forces of the Devil and marched all across Europe before the rest of
the continent was able to marshal defenses capable of dealing with his
small but technically advanced forces.  (ie, before Germany got
control of all the NATO nukes and told Malraux what they'd do with
them.)  

> 	The Living Land invades Brazil.  It also has the "Lost Civilizations"
> aspect of the Land Below.  It's more like the Tarzan pulps than like the 
> Land of the Lost.

Based on what it sounds like they are doing I'd say that they realized
the "lost civilizations" genre goes over better than the "whatever you
want to call it" genre of the Living Land and that is why the LB is
coming up out of the ground to replace the Eastern Land.  Brazil would
have been a good place for it (or for the Land Below to come up).

> 	Orrorsh lands in Japan.  Watch the highly structured society 
> break down as a scientific land is confronted with the occult.  It also
> expands into the USSR, which repelled Tharkhold.

And you'd get those ninja vampires a lot sooner.  8-)

Kansas Jim (jogle@aoc.nrao.edu)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: Robert Link <link@lcopt.physics.fsu.edu>
Subject: Torg illusions
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 16:48:50 GMT

	I wonder... Not to start the whole argument about if illusions can kill 
	(re: AD&D illusions), but if this is just shock, not physical, would it 
	make sense to say that illusionary fireballs do the 
	1st-wound-level-is-ignored deal?  The idea being that this is just pain, 
	not damage; it has to kill by invoking a heart-attack or some such?
	
	any comments?
	
  It seems to me that illusions in Torg are already sorry enough as it is.  
Consider the old illusion favorite:  conjure up an illusory critter to smack the
bad guys.  In Torg it is often easier in terms of creating the spell and in 
terms of the difficulty of the final spell to use alteration magic to turn 
yourself into the critter for some duration than it is to use conjuration magic
to make a phony one, and the alteration can't be disbelieved to boot.  If the 
illusion did cruddier damage as well, it would be adding insult to injury for 
the mage that decides he likes illusions and uses them anyway.
  Add to this the practical consideration that unless you have the GM keeping 
track of the players' wound levels, then when something nasty spanks the players
and they take a whole pile of shock, but only minimal wounds, they will *know* 
it's only an illusion.  Any guesses what their actions will be next round?

	
-rpl

Internet:		link@lcopt.physics.fsu.edu
Snail-net:	        PO Box 61519
			Tally, FL 

"Abstinence is a good thing, if practiced in moderation."
From: bchapman@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Bruce Patrick Chapman)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
Subject: Bioteck weapons
Date: 3 Sep 92 22:39:34 GMT
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
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	Some people have been mentioning that bioteck weapons are pretty deadly
. 
One way to curb their use is to remember that the Space Gods are a pretty
conservitive bunch and might not take kindly to someone (espessally someone
from anther realm walking around with one.

Visions of a monitor swat team jumping down and saying "do you have a permit
for that Gravity ray.
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: Jim Ogle (Ks. Jim) <jogle@aoc.nrao.edu>
Subject: Re: Reality Bubbles
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
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Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 06:22:38 GMT

Alix writes:

> > I just reread parts of the Storm Knights Guide and they say that you
> > cannot attempt anything that is a personal contradiction while in a
> > reality bubble.  So I was doing it right the first time anyway - just
> > ignore what I said earlier.

> I believe that the SK's guide is at odds with the the Rule Book. The RB
> clearly talks about performing contradictions with in a reality bubble.

Yes, the rulesbook does say that - that was what my original post said.

> The effect according to the rule book is that in a reality bubble the
> lands axioms become yours, so should you disconnect, no matter where
> you are, you can reconnect with a reality total of a zero. We much prefer
> this to the SK's "making your self a pure zone of your own reality". The 
> reality bubbles are much more useful if you can cause contradictions. Just
> ask the Dark Avenger who tried to use a core earth parachute in the Living
> Land before we realized that the two books contradicted each other. Just
> because they both have Torg on the cover doesn't mean they gell.

Yes, they are more useful but does it make sense to allow
contradictions in reality bubbles?  That was why I originally ruled
(forgetting what it said in the rulesbook) that you couldn't - if you
are strengthening the connection to your home reality shouldn't there
be some penalty or restriction on creating contradictions?  Of course,
if you feel the normal contradiction rules are enough of a penalty
then run it that way - YMMV.

As for having two rules contradict each other, WEG is pretty good at
that (some of the equipment in Tharkold for example).  8-)

And that Dark Avenger using the parachute - why bother with a reality
bubble?  The parachute will be a four-case contradiction regardless!

Kansas Jim (jogle@aoc.nrao.edu)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: hudson@dragon.cpe.ulowell.edu (Kevin Maurice Hudson)
Subject:  Living Land adventures...
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
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Organization: University of North Texas
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Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 23:37:22 GMT


I just started a campaign for a group of people who had neve heard of
TORG.  I started them out in the Living Land, because I wanted to run
the Intro Module as the second adventure (I felt that the extra worry
of different cosms would confuse them a bit).

I've noticed that most people tend to forget about the stuff that the
invaders are doing to prepare for expansion.  Like setting up Stelae,
Gospog Fields, and spying in Core Earth.  I had the Group stop a
stelae from bing planted.  About 80% of it was mucking about in the LL
trying to figure out what was going on.  I also introduced a long term
villan to the group.

>	1> rescue the Core Earth hostages from Edeinos
>	2> rescue the CEH from Spartans
>	3> escort some schmuck into the LL and keep him outa trouble

These don't have to be the only adventures that you run.  Be creative;
that's what this is all about.

--
hudson@dragon.cpe.ulowell.edu		uhqfba@qentba.pcr.hybjryy.rqh
Kevin Hudson, Systems Manager		Xriva Uhqfba, Flfgrzf Znantre
Center for Productivity Enahncement	Pragre sbe Cebqhpgvivgl Ranuaprzrag
University of Massachusetts Lowell	Havirefvgl bs Znffnpuhfrggf Ybjryy
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: smooge@jupiter.nmt.edu (Stephen Smoogen)
Subject: Re: Axioms -- another log on the fire
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
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Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 14:51:07 GMT

I think a little work on all the axiom sheets should occur. I think
that the technological one is ok (don't shoot me Sean... please) but
I do believe that the social one is VERY western based (although with
the idea that areas can have local axiom shifts would explain why China
was so highly evolved before the West.

However I do agree that both magic and spiritual need a lot of work.
Spiritual the most since where does a regeneration miracle really fit in
axiom whise (sp).

Count me in on the reworking... I will try and get to it by Friday =).

the SMooGE
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: bchapman@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Bruce Patrick Chapman)
Subject: Dreamtime
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
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Organization: University of North Texas
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Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 22:28:54 GMT

	I think there is an aspect of the dreamtime in most aboriginal cultures
anyone else here that


Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: "James H. Kiley" <jkiley@andy.bgsu.edu>
Subject: Infinite Loop Time...
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
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Organization: University of North Texas
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Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 20:02:43 GMT

Uhhh, Clay?
The same message has been rejected and re-rejected now, um, that makes
nine times in the last fifteen minutes...

Jim Kiley, Astronomer Wannabe
jkiley@andy.bgsu.edu
The.Gaunt.Man @ TorgMUSH
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: dml@Athena.MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: GenCon Report (Incredibly long, thousands of spoilers) 
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
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Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 22:03:35 GMT


> ! A Star Sphere SB is in the distant future iffy-plans category, but don't
> ! count on it soon as WEG is apparently putting together a new
> ! science-fiction space opera style game.

>what?!? Star Wars isnt enough for them?

Actually, WEG plans on putting out Second Edition Star Wars, so this is
probably what they were talking about.

As for other things...I'm sorry to see the Living Land go as I never thought
it was used properly.  I would have much rather seen the Living Land fixed as
the result of a module or two (axiom change, world law fixes, etc.) rather
than just give up on it completely.

Maybe the Land Below is WEG's attempt at this, or the Pocket Dimensions sourcebook.

--dave
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: Jim Ogle (Ks. Jim) <jogle@aoc.nrao.edu>
Subject: Re:  GenCon Report (Incredibly long, thousands of spoilers)
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 23:26:05 GMT

Dave Oakes writes:

>  ! The Pocket Dimensions SB will contain a Toon cosm.
> 
> oh well, there goes my last chance at fame
> (and i know it is going to be some sleazy joke cosm, like one in Iverse -
>  am i the only one who thinks Toons can be done right, and done well?)

Yes, you are the only one.  8-)

A Toon pocket realm will probably end up being something like Toontown
out of Roger Rabbit.  I personally don't really care to see it, but
since Torg is supposed to be a generic kind of system they were going
to have to cover it sooner or later....

Kansas Jim (jogle@aoc.nrao.edu)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: alix@solwarra.gbrmpa.gov.au (Alix Walker )
Subject: Re: Stuff more rediculous than the Gravitic Ray Gun
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
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Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 03:52:49 GMT

> Off hand, I can't think of anything that a Core Earth
> character could have that would put him in the God-like
> category.  Same goes for the Living Land, Orrorsh, or
> Nippon Tech.  Note that I'm talking *player* characters.
> I am quite aware of how nasty Orrorsh monsters can get 8).
> 
> Comments?  Suggestions?  Flames?  

Ever seen the Living Land cause pain prayer in action. The
caster determines the damage that they want to do, and this
also becomes the difficulty number. The next person they touch takes
that much damage. As it causes searing physical pain I rule that
any Toughness adds because of armour are ignored. The stalenger in
my game (M.C Splat - The Legend, buy the twistable figure Now!)
regularly picks a DN of 21/22, put that against a natural Toughness
of 8/9. Ouch if your an ord, cause pain for a SK. BTW his Faith /
Focus are around 18, and rising every game.

Winston (in the Living Land - no matter what WEG says)

P.S My game has always been, is, and may always be in the Living Land. It
is a pretty nifty realm, and don't believe anything different.

Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: burt@ptltd.com (Burton Choinski)
Subject: Re:  super skill grumbles
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 11:53:12 GMT

When I first looked at the skill I thought it was too cheap and mulled
over the idea of having skill increases be equal to the VALUE of the new
add.  Thus, to go from +6 to +7 would cost 5, not 2.  Likewise, +9 to +10
would cost 5 as well.

   Does this sound like a good idea?  

   -- Burton
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg