HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: flar@bendenweyr.Eng.Sun.COM (Jim Graham)
Newsgroups: ba.politics
Subject: Re: Why Do We Have Separate Restrooms? (WAS Re: Gays, the military...)
Date: 7 Jan 93 02:45:09 GMT
Reply-To: flar@bendenweyr.Eng.Sun.COM (Jim Graham)
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: bendenweyr

phil@netcom.com (Phil Ronzone) writes:
|> flar@bendenweyr.Eng.Sun.COM (Jim Graham) writes:
|> >|> Why then have those professional male athletes (that are homosexual):
|> >|>   1. Entered their professional sports profession.
|> >|>   2. THEN announced their homosexuality
|> >|>   3. Then complained about unease and a marked difference in treatment
|> >|>      in that very locker room setting?
|> >
|> >Professional male athletes are not the general population.  I would
|> >not be surprised by either statement - that the general population
|> >doesn't care, and that athletes do, nor would I be surprised at both
|> >being true at the same time.
|> 
|> That's a very BALD assertion. Perhaps that's what you'd like to
|> believe, but,
|> it is not the situation in general.

I never claimed that my statements were provable.  I presented them as
my opinion.  I did not then go on to make any conclusions based on them.

You, however, presented the case of the professional athletes and tried
to generalize that evidence to the rest of the population.  Yet you
presented no proof or argument that his sample was generalizeable.

|> WHY should pro athletes be "more" bothered?

I have fairly obvious reasons to think so and Mr. Hauskins has echoed
some of them in his posting, but it doesn't matter.  What matters is
the validity of the sample and ...

|> After all, the PC line is that dislike of being around homosexuals
|> is from fear, low self-esteem and other such things. If any thing,
|> given the egos and high self esteem of pro's, it should be the inverse.

... that you also seem to feel that there is evidence that the sample
doesn't represent the general population.  You yourself acknowledge
that the experience and emotional background of the professional male
athlete is markedly different than that of the general population enough
to skew the statistics.  By your own admission, then, the data is invalid
in making any conclusions about the general population.

				...jim
Newsgroups: ba.politics
From: wayne@ultra.com (Wayne Hathaway)
Subject: Re: Sounds like Democracy to me. (Was Re: Well, even Adolph had to start at thge bottom ...
Reply-To: wayne@ultra.com (Wayne Hathaway)
Organization: Ultra Network Technologies
Distribution: ba
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 93 22:11:31 GMT

One quick question.  If Andy Pugno is on the executive council of the
Associated Students of the University of California, how come a
FACULTY member is leading the recall attempt?  Are faculty members
really members of the "Associated Students"?  If not, it indeed seems
inappropriate for someone with obvious extra-Association influence to
be involved.  If, on the other hand, faculty members really are voting
members of the ASUC, then she's just doing her democratic duty.

    Wayne Hathaway               domain: wayne@Ultra.COM
    Ultra Network Technologies     uucp: ...!ames!ultra!wayne
    101 Daggett Drive             phone: 408-922-0100 x132
    San Jose, CA 95134              FAX: 408-433-9287
From: mzimmers@netcom.com (Michael Zimmers)
Newsgroups: ba.politics
Subject: Re: pressure those nasty Bay Area cable companies!
Date: 6 Jan 93 02:16:58 GMT
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)

In article <13784@optilink.COM> cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer) writes:


>How about learning to
>read for pleasure, instead of being a slave to the opiate of the
>masses?

Who's talking about religion here?
-- 
Michael Zimmers                                    |  Home:  408 996 1984
SoftHelp                                           |  Work:  408 996 1965
Software Solutions for Open Systems                |  Data:  408 996 1974
Newsgroups: ba.politics
From: guido@island.COM (Guido Marx)
Subject: Re: Well, even Adolph had to start at thge bottom ...
Organization: Island Graphics Corp.  San Rafael, Ca.
Distribution: ba
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 17:23:06 GMT

In article <1993Jan5.090300.11605@netcom.com> phil@netcom.com (Phil Ronzone) writes:
>Now, given that the rules are of a democratic nature, one would expect
>that no one save an idiot or a fascist would have a popularily elected
>person (at least twice mind you -- so his platform(s) is well known)
>be "recalled" for implementing his platform.

Ahh, I see.  He was popularly elected by a vote of the student body,
this is good.  Fine so far.

>Now the essential point is that Merline is upset that her views are not
>supported by a democratic process -- so she tries a coercive process.

Umm, Merline is trying to get him removed by a vote of the student body,
this is coercive.  I'm starting to get a little fuzzy on the logic here.

Guido


Newsgroups: ba.politics
From: madhaus@netcom.com (Maddi Hausmann)
Subject: Re: For those that care enough to read the very best
Organization: Society for Putting Things Way Up Phil Ronzone's Nose
Distribution: ba
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 01:01:18 GMT

phil@netcom.com (Phil Ronzone) writes: >
madhaus@netcom.com (Maddi Hausmann) writes: >   >
Phil: >   >>

>    >>For those that care: A correction from sloppy editing. A
>    >>woman who is leading an effort to recall Packwood ran against
>    >>him in 1986 and supported the liberal congressman whom
>    >>Packwood just defeated. Between the line noise
>    >^^^^^^^
>    >>and the netcom hangs (and typing on/off while working) I
>    >>dropped and mangled part of the sentence.
>    >>
>    >DING! DING! DING! I found another BIG LIE. Les AuCoin is
>    >about as conservative as Democrats go, and far to the right
>    >of Packwood.
>
>Why, Maddi, are you out of enemas AGAIN!

Simple beration, 10 points.

>Wall Street Journal, 10-Dec-92, and I quote "The woman who is leading an
>effort in Oregon to recall Mr. Packwood ran against him in 1986 and supported
>the liberal congressman who Mr. Packwood just defeated".
>
>The WSJ has very high standards for accuracy. Maddi does not -- for example,
>the WSJ would bever have reported that Michels was charged with anything.

Appeal to authority, argumentum ad hominem, subject change, old
insult and Accentus ALL IN ONE SENTENCE!  That is absolutely
amazing!  Congratulations!

>Maddi, please post a verifiable source for your contention that the man
>Packwood defeated is a conservative.

My source is NOW's refusal to support either candidate, because AuCoin
was not pro-choice "enough" or "too" pro-life, but Packwood was a
Republican, and NOW wasn't supporting ANY Republicans this year.

>Something other than your overheated imagination.

Simple beration, 10 points.

>And BTW, while I enjoy the fact that you are so obsessed with me and my posts,
>you STILL can't have a date with me. Get a life, O.K.?

Hmm, I think...YES this qualifies as COMPLEX BERATION!

But wait, I get an additional score, because, Phil
FOLLOWED UP MY ARTICLE TWICE!!!!!

Phil: >
Maddi: >   >
Phil: >   >>

>    >>And, can't we talk about something more interesting on
>    >>ba.politics than cable TV -- say, how about them NAMBLA guys
>    >>..... ?
>    >>
>    >You just love stirring up shit, don't you, Phil? That's 10
>    >points for changing the subject, 2 for the Red Herring, and
>    >45 for ignoring 3 ISSUES.
>
>Golly, Maddi, with a total lack of the ability to sense humor, I'm sure
>glad you don't moderate any humorous newsgroups!
>
>(Now you see Maddi, that was a joke. As Cleghorn would put it, a joke son,
>a joke.)

Another Simple Beration, Ad Hominem, and ...wait, what's this?
MINUS TEN POINTS for two posts without mention of PC.

EVERYBODY STOP DRINKING, okay?

-- 
Maddi Hausmann                       |  The Truth is still The Truth, forsooth 
madhaus@netcom.com                   |  Even if believing It you refuse
Centigram Communications Corp        |  Complete disproof's uncouth and moot
San Jose California  408/428-3553    |  A Fundie's brain is dead.
From: phil@netcom.com (Phil Ronzone)
Subject: Re: For those that care enough to read the very best
Organization: Generally in favor of, but mostly random.
Distribution: ba
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 00:39:39 GMT

In article <1993Jan7.000936.20281@netcom.com> madhaus@netcom.com (Maddi Hausmann) writes:
    >>And, can't we talk about something more interesting on
    >>ba.politics than cable TV -- say, how about them NAMBLA guys
    >>..... ?
    >>
    >You just love stirring up shit, don't you, Phil? That's 10
    >points for changing the subject, 2 for the Red Herring, and
    >45 for ignoring 3 ISSUES.

Golly, Maddi, with a total lack of the ability to sense humor, I'm sure
glad you don't moderate any humorous newsgroups!

(Now you see Maddi, that was a joke. As Cleghorn would put it, a joke son,
a joke.)


-- 
I believe Gennifer Flowers.

These opinions are MINE, and you can't have 'em! (But I'll rent 'em cheap ...)
From: cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: ba.politics
Subject: Re: pressure those nasty Bay Area cable companies!
Date: 11 Jan 93 19:38:02 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <184837@pyramid.pyramid.com>, glambert@pyramid.com (George Lambert) writes:
> In article <13824@optilink.COM> cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer) writes:
> >In article <106184@bu.edu>, kane@buast7.bu.edu (Hot Young Star) writes:
> >> In article <13784@optilink.COM> cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer) writes:
# ## #How about learning to read for pleasure, instead of being a slave to the
# ## #opiate of the masses?
# ## 
# ## Isn't it ironic, though,  that the biggest competitor to television as a
# ## mind-enslaver is a certain Book?
# #
# #You mean, there's only one book available to read?  Wow!
# #
# #Which Book?  You mean _Das Kapital_?  It certainly is responsible
# #(indirectly) for more murders than any other book in history.
# #
# Given the Crusades, the Hundred Years War, the Inquistion, the bulk of 
# persecution of the rest of the Middle Ages, the subjugation and genocide 
# of native cultures in the new and third worlds under the guise of "Christian
# Enlightenment", and any number of other historical atrocities based upon
# belief in the Bible, Clayto, I'd say that your interest in gays has caused you
# to lose your once strong grasp of history.
# 
# The Bible beats Das Kapital hands down.
# 
# George Lambert

Wrong again.  The KGB has estimated that the Soviet Union murdered
40 million people in this century.  The Chinese Communist government
executed around 35 million people.  That doesn't include people
forced into suicide, or killed in warfare.  There are at least
three million murdered by Pol Pot's government.  

Want to cite some numbers for the Crusades, the Inquisition, etc.?

Also, "native cultures" were primarily victimized by gold seeking
sorts, and had little to do with Christianity.  But there were
plenty of people like Father de la Casas who played a role in
STOPPING those great crimes against the American Indian.


-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
"When freedom destroys order, order will destroy freedom." -- Eric Hoffer
Not a goal, just a statement of reality.
From: mikea@zorba.gvg.tek.com (Michael P. Anderson)
Newsgroups: ba.politics
Subject: Re: Well, even Adolph had to start at thge bottom ...
Date: 5 Jan 93 22:56:55 GMT
Distribution: ba
Organization: Grass Valley Group, Grass Valley, CA

In article <1993Jan4.1311@netcom.com> phil@netcom.com (Phil Ronzone) writes:

>Sig Heil Merline - fuck democracy, how dare a popularly elected person
>vote against the way YOU want. Too bad we don't have no labor kamps, eh?

Phil carefully builds his strawperson (:, then knocks it down with great
noise and puffery.

I don't know sport, seems there's more fascism accumulating with the actions
of the Secret Gov't -- Bush's pardon of NINETEEN conspirators being just
the latest audacity -- than in all of the liberal corners of Bezerkely.

								    MPA
Newsgroups: ba.politics
From: altinbay@netcom.com (John Altinbay)
Subject: Re: Cable TV: Disorganized Crime, Was: Re: dangerous group
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Distribution: ba
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 04:10:47 GMT

In article <a5U003SRc7gk00@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com> jsp@pls.amdahl.com writes:
>
>Clayton, I'm very happy that you and your daughter do so much reading.
>But where in hell do you get the right to pass judgement on how other
>people decide to spend their leisure time?  If I enjoy watching TV,
>and I want the services that cable TV provides, what damned business
>is that of yours?
>

It's a great testimonial to not watching TV that such a person can act that
way, isn't it?


-- 
John Altinbay   -   altinbay@netcom.com
===============================================================
There's a spirit that guides me, a light that shines for me
My life is worth the living, I don't need to see the end.
From: zursch@whizkid.wpd.sgi.com (Jeffrey B. Zurschmeide)
Newsgroups: ba.politics
Subject: Re: For those that care enough to read the very best
Date: 6 Jan 93 22:09:37 GMT
Reply-To: zursch@whizkid.wpd.sgi.com (Jeffrey B. Zurschmeide)
Distribution: ba
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.


Nope, Larry Michels of SCO has not been charged with any crime that I 
know of in a court of law. 

However, he was thoroughly crucified in the media, and has retired completely
from SCO. (to the infinite benefit of that company, imo.) 

Some of the stuff that has been alleged against him, though, would definitely
be grounds for a charge of attempted rape.  I can't say that I ever saw him 
do anything beyond boorish and rude and disgusting behavior, though. 

JZ
From: walsh@optilink.COM (Mark Walsh)
Newsgroups: ba.politics
Subject: Re: Cable TV: Disorganized Crime, Was: Re: dangerous group
Date: 6 Jan 93 00:25:21 GMT
Distribution: ba
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

From article <1993Jan1.212234.14909@netcom.com>, by altinbay@netcom.com (John Altinbay):
> In article <13760@optilink.COM> walsh@optilink.COM (Mark Walsh) writes:

#>Still want to watch the tube?  The antenna
#>system that I put up in 1985 (antenna, rotator,mast, mast-
#>mounted pre-amp, feedline, lightning arrestor, guy wires,
#>etc.) cost no more than a year's worth of cable, and is
#>still working fine...

> OK.  Let me know when you figure out how to get AMC and other worthwhile
> cable stations through the TV antenna.  I didn't get cable in order to save
> going up on the roof.

Much of the schlock on AMC, HBO, etc. is duplicated by the
terrestrial based stations.  Those whos addictions are severe
can receive transmissions through earth orbiting transponders.

BTW, does anybody out there know where to get a recording of
"TV OD" by Normal?  My recording is late seventies and is
wearing out.

Cheers -- Mark "Just stick the aerial into my skin" Walsh
-- 
Mark Walsh (walsh@optilink) -- UUCP: uunet!optilink!walsh
AOL: BigCookie -- Amateur Radio: KM6XU@WX3K -- USCF: L10861
"What, me worry?" - William M. Gaines, 1922-1992
Newsgroups: ba.politics
From: madhaus@netcom.com (Maddi Hausmann)
Subject: Re: Is this wrong, or what?
Organization: Society for Putting Things on Top of Other Things
Distribution: ba
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 23:57:33 GMT

phil@netcom.com (Phil Ronzone) writes: >
mfriedma@uucp (Michael Friedman) writes: >   >

>    >Question: Why are you keeping the identities of John Doe and
>    >the company secret?
>
>Very good question. Tell you what, I'll answer it now, if you in turn answer
>MY question ("is this sick or is it just me?").
>
>O.K.
>
>In a few days, I'll reveal the name of the company. Plus details that make it
>even more sickening (but couldn't be revealed without giving it away).

Note that Phil offers to answer the question "now," asks for a quid
pro quo in return ("answer MY question"), and then says he'll answer
it "in a few days."

Phil, your lies are getting even sloppier.  At least before you'd
contradict yourself between posts, but now you're doing so only
two paragraphs apart.

>To some people, this is a "Very Politically Correct(tm) Company", and I wanted
>a straight answer without names clouding the issue.

I never heard of a "Very Politically Correct(tm) Company."  Do 
PC companies chastize others for their un-PC stances?  Do they
donate 45% of their profits to indigenous peoples to assist
their struggle against Evil Capitalists who would Destroy the
Rain Forest?

Is this yet another one of your interminable red herrings?
Are you capable of viewing the world in any way other than
PC vs non-PC?

>Now, what is YOUR response to John Doe?

Now = in a few days, remember?  You first.

>And as a bonus question, why didn't you answer with your response, but only
>asked what the name of the company is? BTW - it isn't Oracle, so don't
>worry.

Some nerve.  Rememeber, Phil promised to answer "now," fails to
do so, and continues to ask Michael for his answer.

I don't know why Michael asked you to name the company, but here's
why I'm asking: because I suspect you aren't telling us all
the facts, and instead are trying to make another one of your
"Evil PC" points.  Give us all the information rather than
your version.  You've already proven yourself unable to judge
anything objectively.


-- 
Maddi Hausmann                       |  The Truth is still The Truth, forsooth 
madhaus@netcom.com                   |  Even if believing It you refuse
Centigram Communications Corp        |  Complete disproof's uncouth and moot
San Jose California  408/428-3553    |  A Fundie's brain is dead.
From: mhi@wet.UUCP (Philip E. Murphy)
Newsgroups: ba.politics
Subject: Re: Who John Doe (and the anonymous company) is ...
Date: 6 Jan 93 15:44:34 GMT
Distribution: ba
Organization: Wetware Diversions, San Francisco

In article <1993Jan6.022905.29588@netcom.com> phil@netcom.com (Phil Ronzone) writes:
>In article <1icb6pINNlj3@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> stephen@orchid.UCSC.EDU (x4604 (Hauskins)) writes:
>    >>Why? A man molests a minor. He kills himself. The company
>    >>does not apologize. It lauds the molestor.
>These opinions are MINE, and you can't have 'em! (But I'll rent 'em cheap ...)

Phil's argument again proves nothing except a rehash of news.  The problem is
nothing more than media being manipulated by a large company.  Having spent
time with the media recently, I can tell you that if they smell a story and
they have a gap to fill - they will go after it.  If another story comes a-
long that story is squelched.  It all depends on who is covering the story and
what the News Agency's policy is.  Of course a phone call or two from
Stanford would not make a difference.

"Political Correctness" or PC is cop out word used by people who love to 
classify.  I would call lobbyist politically correct - its their livelyhood.
PC is another word for "yes man".  It is insulting to think that our ability
to think objectively - through research towards conclusion is going to be
interpreted by some with the copout answer of "Politically Correct".  When
you use that Phil, and there are others, it only goes to show that you are 
unwilling to accept the fact that our ideas are arrived at through some pro-
cess other than heresay and innuendo on which you thrive.

P. Murphy

-- 

Phil Murphy                                          (415) 285-2595 voice 
P.O. Box 460084 San Francisco,CA 94146-0084          (415) 285-8213 fax
From: stephen@orchid.UCSC.EDU (x4604 (Hauskins))
Newsgroups: ba.politics
Subject: I am a great skeptic on 2nd-hand stories (was: Re: Is this wrong, or what?
Date: 5 Jan 93 01:01:38 GMT
Distribution: ba
Organization: Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: orchid.ucsc.edu

In article <1993Jan4.234412.2201@netcom.com> phil@netcom.com (Phil Ronzone) writes:
>In article <1993Jan4.201243.25476@oracle.us.oracle.com> mfriedma@uucp (Michael Friedman) writes:
>    >Question: Why are you keeping the identities of John Doe and
>    >the company secret?
>
>Very good question. Tell you what, I'll answer it now, if you in turn answer
>MY question ("is this sick or is it just me?").
>
>O.K.
>
>In a few days, I'll reveal the name of the company. Plus details that make it
>even more sickening (but couldn't be revealed without giving it away).
>
>To some people, this is a "Very Politically Correct(tm) Company", and I wanted
>a straight answer without names clouding the issue.
>

I think his question is valid- knowing the name of the company may change the
scope of perceptions about why they acted in the purported way that they did.
Whether this company is PC or non-PC is irrelevant.  

These discussion cannot be based solely in emotiional responses.  This is not
fair to all parties involved. I have no idea or information about how all of
the purported crime started and why it lasted so long.  As for the length of
time, especially at this point where the victim is 14 years old, the parents
should have instilled in their daughter a confidence that she could tell them
anything.  The molestor involved obviously needed help, and maybe somewhere in
his history he made an attempt to get someone to help him, or to tell him
how but was ignored, or maybe he never did, becuase he believed he wasn't
doing anything wrong.  

Parents need to be on the alert and be aware about their childern- plus have
an open communications with them.  This is about all one can do, short of 
locking them up and keeping them from being in the world.
If you are to report such stories- give substantiated facts- back up the story.
The trouble with so much information today is that people give second hand
accounts- hearsay- and then slant it towards their own viewpoint.

There is a position in this country about guilt-  innocent until proven guilty.

Now of the information you have supplied, I would say that this person was greatly
disturbed and tortured about what they did, to the point of ending their own
life.  He was in need of help (mental, emotional, etc.).  The young girl is 
now in need of help as well- will the family do that, will the company provide
it- hard to say- many times the families will just try and hush it up, keep 
it quiet to pervent embrassment.  Maybe they as this corporation to make no mention
of what occured.  

My point is, I do not tend to just take a given (second hand story) and believe it.
As to a response of outrage etc.  You need to take a global view of many things, becuase
there are all types of 'outrageous' events taking place around us.
From: falk@peregrine.Sun.COM (Ed Falk)
Newsgroups: ba.politics
Subject: Re: Cable TV: Disorganized Crime, Was: Re: dangerous group
Date: 4 Jan 1993 20:15:59 GMT
Organization: Sun
Distribution: ba
NNTP-Posting-Host: peregrine

In article <1993Jan1.212234.14909@netcom.com> altinbay@netcom.com (John Altinbay) writes:
>
>OK.  Let me know when you figure out how to get AMC and other worthwhile
>cable stations through the TV antenna.  I didn't get cable in order to save
>going up on the roof.

You can buy a vcr and rent movies.  That's what I do.  Unless you watch
a lot of movies, this scheme is less than a year's worth of premium
channels.  (If you do watch a lot of movies, you should worry about how
you're spending your time.)

As for cable being a monopoly, as one other poster said; that's true,
but they're a monopoly selling something you don't need.  We've come
to accept electricity, heat and telephone as necessities, so we regulate
them under the premise that a monopoly provider with a captive audience
is dangerous.  Cable TV is a luxury, and I see no reason that customers
can't vote with their dollars.

Boycott lousy cable providers!

		-ed falk, sun microsystems
		 sun!falk, falk@sun.com
	"Towards the end, the smell of their air began to change"
Newsgroups: ba.politics