From: jewell@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Larry Jewell)
Newsgroups: soc.veterans
Subject: 'NamVet Newsletter, Vol.5, no.10 (5/7)
Date: 22 Aug 92 02:23:59 GMT


     evidence  including,  but not limited to,  scientific and  medical 
     evidence (Levine and Howe, 1985).   The basic principle in a civil 
     suit is "preponderance of evidence." A verdict may be reached when 
     the  evidence simply is tipped in either direction  (Kaye,  1983).  
     The   judicial  regulation  of  hazards  recognizes  two  relevant 
     standards  of  liability:  strict liability and negligence  (Page, 
     1983).  Strict  liability assigns legal responsibility whether  or 
     not  the  defendant was careless.   Hence the decision rule  under 
     strict  liability  is:  if,  in the judgement of  the  court,  the 
     probability  that the defendant's activity caused the  plaintiff's 
     injury  is  greater  than  50 percent,  find  for  the  plaintiff; 
     otherwise,  find  for  the defendant.   Therefore,  if a  case  is 
     wrongfully  decided,  it  is  as likely to  favor  an  undeserving 
     plaintiff as an undeserving defendant.
       In  the  Agent  Orange controversy,  a small number  of  Vietnam 
     veterans  complained  of  illnesses  of  unknown  and,  ultimately 
     disputed  origin.   Civilian medical authorities diagnosed cancers 
     and other disabling or life-threatening conditions.  Some veterans 
     sought  assistance  from  the VA to confirm  suspicions  that  the 
     exposure  to  Agent Orange in Vietnam caused  the  diseases.  This 
     scenario  seemed  unlikely  to  VA physicians  and  costly  to  VA 
     administrators.    Hence,   the   inquiries   had   no   effective 
     representation  in the institutional arena in which the  illnesses 
     of  veterans  are  certified as  sicknesses.  The  issue  remained 
     obscure  until  covered in a television documentary.  The  WBBM-TV 
     
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     Volume  5, Number 10                             October 24, 1991

     news    team   operated   under   different   organizational   and 
     methodological  constraints  than  those  of  VA  officials.   The 
     documentary  blurred the distinction between illness and  sickness 
     by  portraying  the  veterans'   stories  sympathetically  and  by 
     revealing  the uncertainty in the medical community outside the VA 
     about Agent Orange's safety.
       The  documentary  and the lawsuit vaulted Agent Orange into  the 
     national limelight. The lawsuit also moved the question of whether 
     Agent  Orange  causes  disease into an arena  where  standards  of 
     evidence  permit circumstantial as well as scientific evidence and 
     where   the   preponderance  principal  provides  for   definitive 
     decision-making  despite  uncertainty.    However,   circumstances 
     peculiar  to this case undermined the certification of sickness as 
     adjudicated by law.  A class-action suit in a mass toxic tort case 
     raised  problems of unprecedented scope and complexity.   Previous 
     lawsuits involving latent disorders,  such as the asbestos and DES 
     cases,  provided no helpful guidelines for evaluating in court the 
     inconclusive scientific evidence and contradictory medical opinion 
     of  the  Agent  Orange  case.   In  those  previous  court  cases, 
     authorities were able to document levels of exposure and to detect 
     a distinctive latent disorder as a consequence of exposure.   This 
     was not possible in the case of Agent Orange. After much delay and 
     a  considerable  amount of legal sparring,  the two sides  settled 
     out-of-court in 1984.
       The  controversy  over  Agent Orange also became a  vehicle  for 
     organizing and securing other benefits for Vietnam veterans.  When 
     the  VA  reacted  slowly and reluctantly,  Vietnam  veterans  were 
     angered  by their inability to receive treatment for troubling and 
     serious health problems.  They interpreted the VA's hesitancy as a 
     violation of the compensation guidelines and as part of an overall 
     pattern  of  indifference to them in  American  society.   Vietnam 
     Veterans  of America established itself as a national organization 
     during the early stages of the controversy and remains the largest 
     organization  solely  for  Vietnam  veterans.   Congress  approved 
     legislation  to help Vietnam veterans adjust to civilian life only 
     after  the  Agent Orange controversy aroused Vietnam veterans  and 
     their  sympathizers  and  sparked political activity  among  them. 
     Congressional mandates also require the VA to provide medical care 
     for veterans who claim to have been exposed to Agent Orange and to 
     compensate  veterans  should definitive scientific  evidence  ever 
     link Agent Orange with disease.
       Though the issue has waned, the controversy over Agent Orange is 
     not over.  In 1987,  a study of mortality records conducted by the 
     VA  found  higher  rates  of death due to  lung  cancer  and  non-
     Hodgkin's  lymphomas  than  expected among Marine units  who  were 
     exposed  to  Agent Orange (Boffey,  1987).   The VA  withheld  the 
     findings  from  the  public  for several months  to  assess  their 
     relevance;  Vietnam  Veterans of America (VVA)  accused them of  a 
     cover-up.  The bumper sticker,  "Sprayed and Betrayed,"  while not 
     selling briskly, still has a market.
       This article, in its entirety, is available from:
                    New Jersey Agent Orange Commission
                                PO Box 1717
                             Trenton, NJ 08607
                              (609) 530-8162
     (No,  you  don't  have to live in New Jersey.   Write for  a  free
     information packet on Agent Orange.)
     

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     Volume  5, Number 10                             October 24, 1991

          
          
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     NAM VET Newsletter                                         Page 64
     Volume  5, Number 10                             October 24, 1991



     ==================================================================
                            The Chapel at NamVet
     ==================================================================

                   NAM VET - Making Peace with Your Past
                               by Chuck Dean
                          Input by G. Joseph Peck
                         NamVet's Managing Editor
                        VETLink #1 - Pittsfield, MA
                              (413) 443-6313
     
     (Note from Joe:  Because it answers a lot of the questions so many 
     of  you have asked -  or wanted to ask - I have input the  closing 
     chapter of Chuck Dean's "NAM VET - Making Peace with Your Past" in 
     its entirety.   You may write for a copy of the entire book at the 
     address at the end of this article.)
     
       "I  am a Vietnam vet who is still affected by the war.   I  have 
     been  struggling  with this problem ever since I returned from  my 
     tour  in  '68.   When I arrived home I tried to return  to  normal 
     life, but my war experiences had blocked off my emotions.
       "I  was  20  when I got home,  and the Army made no  attempt  to 
     debrief  or counsel me.   As a result,  I was discharged with many 
     unresolved issues that I have only amplified over the years.
       "I held many jobs, did a lot of drugs and drank a lot to help me 
     repress  things,  but  things  just got worse and  worse.   I  got 
     married  to  a beautiful woman,  and she put up with my state  for 
     eleven years.   After having a lovely daughter,  things got really 
     bad  for  me  again.   I  became  more  and  more  depressed,   my 
     relationships  with this beautiful person and child began to  fall 
     apart, I became a stranger to her, paranoid, isolated,  suspicious 
     and withdrawn.
       "My  job  got bad,  too.   I began to experience fits  of  rage, 
     flashbacks  and doing bizarre things.   I was soon fired as  being 
     incompetent,  and  despite the love of my family,  I  deteriorated 
     into  a shambling hulk,  and soon the inevitable happened  -  they 
     left me.
       "I  am  increasingly  suicidal at this  point.   I  have  become 
     cynical, paranoid and depressed.   I search for a way out of this, 
     for  a  path to take to peace,  a way to a new life.   But I  have 
     almost given up.
       "My  parents strive desperately to help me,  trying to  preserve 
     what  little  I  have  left.   I sought  help  from  the  Veterans 
     Administration,  and  I  have been handed around from  one  social 
     worker to another, from one psych ward to another, from program to 
     program, none of which has addressed itself to my problem.
       "Where does it all end for me?   What is going to happen to this 
     veteran's life?
       "I would appreciate any direction you could supply.  Please stay 
     in  contact  with  me.  What  is available in my  area  from  your 
     ministry?"
                              A VIETNAM VETERAN, 20 YEARS LATER
     
       The  above  is an actual letter received at the headquarters  of 
     Point Man International in Seattle, Washington.   It is typical of 
     the  kind  of correspondence from veterans that  the  organization 
     receives on a daily basis, from around the world.
       Point  Man is one of many veteran outreach groups in the  United 
     States  designed to help you with your specific problems from  the 
     
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     Volume  5, Number 10                             October 24, 1991

     war.   Since  I have served on the board of directors and held the 
     position   of   national   executive   director   of   Point   Man 
     International,  I  use it as an example of how you can find  peace 
     with your past.
       In the last chapter (of the book -  Nam Vet)  you read about how 
     Athena and I became Christians, and how God changed our lives.  To 
     many  of  you it may have seemed like typical religious  nonsense.  
     You are now expecting me to go off on a sermon about Jesus, heaven 
     and being "born again."  You're wrong.   Instead,  I invite you to 
     contact  me or one of the Point Man outpost leaders listed at  the 
     end  of this chapter (Note from Joe:   You'll have to get the book 
     for  the names/addresses <smilez>.   Address posted at the end  of 
     this article).  We'd like to meet you, and we believe that through 
     Point Man you can find freedom from your memories of 'Nam and from 
     other  PTSD symptoms.   The rest of this chapter explains why  you 
     should contact us.
     
     WHAT IS POINT MAN?
       PMI  is an international veterans-for-veterans agency  operating 
     out of its headquarters in Seattle.   Point Man provides a support 
     group  setting where you can meet with other Vietnam veterans  and 
     finally  let  down  your emotional  perimeter.   We  also  provide 
     counseling,k  emergency shelter and other services,  all from 'Nam 
     vets  who have been down the same trails and understand where  you 
     are coming from.  These services are provided at no charge because 
     Point Man is a nonprofit organization.
       Our  weekly  group meetings emphasize a family  atmosphere.   We 
     know that 'Nam vets will open up, or accept counseling,  only from 
     other  Vietnam veterans.   Our brotherhood is based on our  shared 
     trauma.   You  can  trust  us because Point Man is run  solely  by 
     Vietnam veterans.
       We  stay away from secular counseling procedures.   We know  how 
     many  of  you  have been run through the  gauntlet  of  government 
     programs  and  are fed up with the runaround they have given  you.  
     Our sessions are different.   We begin each meeting by identifying 
     ourselves,  what  unit we were in while in Vietnam,  what year  or 
     years we were there and what we are doing now.
       When  I mention trust it really boils down to our strategy.   As 
     brothers,  we "watch each other's back"  while opening up after so 
     many years of holding the hurt inside.  You have probably not been 
     able to talk with anyone about the war for years.   At a Point Man 
     outpost meeting, you can sit down with a bunch of guys who are not 
     going to criticize you.   You can listen and watch,  without being 
     expected  to  say or do much of anything.   In time you will  feel 
     relaxed,  because  you  will recognize you've finally run  into  a 
     group  of guys who understand you and express genuine concern  for 
     you.  They won't give up if you explode in rage,  or cry,  or walk 
     away.  They have been there, too.
     
     NO SERMONS OR APPEALS FOR MONEY
       Point  Man is made up of Christian veterans of the Vietnam  War.  
     But  we  don't pound you over the head with the Bible or  ask  for 
     money.   Your  interest  in restoring your own life is  what  will 
     motivate you to find freedom and victory.   We will prod gently to 
     help  you  open  up and let go of your  memories  and  pain.   Our 
     outpost leaders will treat you with respect,  friendship and love.  
     We rely on God and we pray for you in the process.
       We  charge  nothing  for our services because we  trust  God  to 
     provide  all  our funding through gifts from people and  companies 
     
     NAM VET Newsletter                                         Page 66
     Volume  5, Number 10                             October 24, 1991

     that  see  the importance of helping people like  you.   From  our 
     perspective, you have already paid the price for the war.
       The  key to our success in helping veterans is that our  primary 
     strategy  is  confession.    You  probably  immediately  think  of 
     confession  as telling someone,  such as a jury or police officer, 
     about  the wrong you have done.   This kind of confessing gets you 
     locked  up,  punished and ridiculed publicly.   Nobody wants that.  
     Why  tell  someone something you've done when all you're going  to 
     get  from it is more misery and suffering,  right?   But there  is 
     another way to think about confessing.
       In previous chapters I wrote about "stuffing" our memories,  and 
     other  ways we repress or hold in our feelings of hurt,  pain  and 
     despair from our experiences in Vietnam (and from returning home). 
     The  fact is that we can only hold them inside for so long  before 
     they explode,  through fits of rage,  violence or self-destructive 
     behavior.   Like  physical  wounds,  psychological  and  emotional 
     wounds have to be cleaned out before they can heal.  And you clean 
     these kinds of wounds by dumping,  letting it out,  confessing the 
     pain,  hurt,  anger,  sorrow,  terror  and remorse.   A Point  Man 
     outpost  meeting  provides the safest environment in which  to  do 
     this.   You  finally  can  talk  about  the  horrible  things  you 
     witnessed, did,  or failed to stop while in Vietnam.   No one will 
     judge you,  because everyone is there to find healing for himself, 
     and  to help others in the process.   The security of knowing that 
     every man in the group has probably done similar things during the 
     war  will help you be honest with yourself and others,  maybe  for 
     the  first  time since the war.   That will help you  cleanse  the 
     wound.
     
     JIM, A NEW GUY IN THE GROUP
       In order to help you picture what to expect at a meeting, let me 
     tell  you  about  Jim,  a Vietnam veteran who visited one  of  our 
     Seattle outposts.
       It was a rainy Monday evening, which is common in Seattle.   Our 
     weekly veteran's group had just gotten underway, and the air was a 
     bit electrified by the pounding monsoon-like downpour that drummed 
     on  the small office complex in the northern suburbs.   Some of us 
     were remembering the rain in the 'Nam.
       The outpost leader, Gene, was his usual smiling self.  His teeth 
     shone through his Paul Bunyan beard,  and he was eager to get into 
     a Bible study he had been preparing all week.   The new guy,  Jim, 
     was  nervously  sipping his coffee.   His eyes flickered from  one 
     veteran  to the next,  searching for a safe reference point.   Not 
     knowing what to expect,  or what these guys would be like,  he had 
     come dressed in a sports coat and tie.  Occasionally he reached up 
     and  loosened  the  tie  in an attempt to fit in  with  the  seven 
     casually dressed men around him.
       Gene  began the meeting by introducing himself,  naming his unit 
     in  'Nam,  when he was there and how his week had gone since  they 
     had last met.   The introductions proceeded around the table until 
     it was Jim's turn to speak.
       "When were you in-country, Jim?" Gene asked.
       "I was in 'Nam from '66 to '67," Jim said.
       "What unit were you in?" Gene asked.
       "The first division up by the 'Parrot's Beak.'" Jim paused.   He 
     seemed a bit confused.  Then he went on,  "You know,  I don't know 
     why  I'm here.   I've tried every vet help group there is and I've 
     pretty well given up on..." He broke off and began to sob into his 
     hands.
     
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     Volume  5, Number 10                             October 24, 1991

       Rich, another veteran, placed his hand on Jim's shoulder.  "It's 
     OK, brother, you're among friends and we love you, man," he said.
       Jim looked up and gathered himself together a bit, nodding an OK 
     to  Rich.  "Sorry,  sometimes  it feels like I got a big  pool  of 
     something that just boils up inside and then out it comes.."  
       Mel joined the conversation.  "Yeah, I know what that's like.  I 
     couldn't  cry for fifteen years...  I didn't even cry when my  mom 
     died.   Then  one  time I went to an air show and an  F-4  Phantom 
     buzzed the airfield real low, you know, and I just broke and cried 
     for about three days.  That was about the time I found these guys, 
     and, well, I know why I broke now,  and I've found out that crying 
     is a pretty healing thing."
       "This pool you mentioned, Jim," Gene asked, "what is it exactly?  
     Can you describe it?"
       "It  feels like a slow-motion movie of a bunch of newsreels  all 
     jumbled together, and it really makes me sad.  But sometimes I get 
     mad when I see them in my mind."
       "Are they nightmares, too?" Gene asked.
       "Yeah."
       "What do you normally do to control these 'movies'?  Do you have 
     any way to turn them off?"
       Jim answered immediately. "Yeah, I drink.  Booze numbs me.  I've 
     spend  a lot of nights sitting in my dark kitchen with a bottle of 
     Jack Daniels.   It really keeps things from boiling over,  and the 
     nightmares don't bother me at all."
       "What was it in 'Nam that got you the most?" Rich asked.
       "I  don't  know  if I really want to talk  about  it,  OK?"  Jim 
     responded.
       "That's  fine,"  Gene said,  "we can move on.   But there's  one 
     thing  that  I've  found  out in this  group,  and  that  is  that 
     revealing  is healing.   Most of us have been down the same trails 
     you have, we've done some pretty rotten things and had some pretty 
     weird experiences in 'Nam.   And we just want you to know that its 
     OK  to let it all hang out here,  because there ain't no one going 
     to  judge you."   He turned to Mel and asked,  "How are you  doing 
     this week?"
       "I'm still sober.   It's been six weeks since I went on a binge, 
     but I can't say I haven't been tempted.   Whew!   It's a hard hill 
     to  hump.   I  do have a little good news to  report,  though.   A 
     couple of weeks ago I had a dream... a nightmare, I guess.   I was 
     sitting on a night perimeter in the bush.  It was raining, but the 
     air  was  real  misty.   You  know how it used to get  up  in  the 
     highlands.   Suddenly,  I  could smell the gooks,  and I knew if I 
     could smell them they were real close.  Then a trip flare went off 
     and  out of the night three of them jumped in the hole with me and 
     started dragging me off.
       "I woke up panting real hard, and I was drenched with sweat.   I 
     got  up,  and normally I would hit the bottle to numb my brain;  I 
     just  couldn't  go back to sleep for fear that that  stupid  dream 
     would continue.   But I did something unusual.   I got down beside 
     the bed and prayed to God that he would take every dream away from 
     me.   I  asked him to just let me sleep until morning.   I  really 
     felt relaxed when I did that,  and I rolled back into bed and fell 
     asleep  almost immediately and didn't wake up until nine the  next 
     morning.  A simple thing, but, man, it worked."
       "That's great." Gene said.  "Sometimes all it really takes is to 
     give a little more than we ever have before,  and giving in to God 
     is certainly a big step for a bunch of hard-heads like us, right?"
       "Most of the men laughed, and the group lightened up.
     
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       "I  think  that's  interesting that you had a dream  like  that, 
     because  I  frequently  have similar ones,"  Jim  spoke.   "But  I 
     haven't  done  anything about it except get drunk.   I  think  the 
     toughest thing for me to deal with was the kids over there.   What 
     a stupid war!"
       There was a long pause.  "What about the kids, Jim?" Gene asked.
       Jim was silent for a long time. "What a waste,"  he exclaimed in 
     frustration, and began to cry again.
       The group was quiet.  In time, Jim began to talk again.
       "I  was a medic.   I was supposed to save lives,  and here I was 
     getting off on shooting people."  He began to sob again.  "Once in 
     the  Iron  Triangle I was part of a LRRP team,  and we ran into  a 
     village  that had just been visited by the Viet Cong.   The  place 
     was still smokin'.   In the village yard there was a pile of kids' 
     arms  that they had hacked off because a Green Beret medical  team 
     had  been  through and inoculated the kids for cholera a few  days 
     before.  The damn VC had cut their arms off to teach the village a 
     lesson  in  not  taking  anything  from  the  Yankees,   including 
     medicine."  Jim began to cry again.
       "What did you do, Jim?"
       He was quiet again, for a long time.
       "I  went crazy.   I lost it...  I started shooting every..."  He 
     broke again.  "I shot a bunch of people..."  He slumped forward on 
     the  table and let the tears run.   A couple of the guys went over 
     and put their hands on his shoulders, sobbing with him.
       Gene spoke again.  "Jim, you gotta know, brother,  that we're in 
     this  thing  together.   There's no way we can pack that  kind  of 
     stuff around alone.  Believe it or not, God didn't do that to you, 
     and  he really does love you.   It was a terrible place to be when 
     we  were  younger,  and all those memories that have been  stuffed 
     inside need to be cast upon someone else's shoulders.  Someone who 
     is  willing to share your load.   God wants to take that  rucksack 
     off  and  carry  it for you,  brother,  but you first have  to  be 
     willing  to  give it up.   He ain't going to take it if you  can't 
     give it up."
       Jim was still sobbing,  but he replied,  "This is the last stop, 
     man.   I've  tried  everything that I know how to do to  get  some 
     peace, but it isn't coming.   If I don't get it here,  well,  I've 
     had it.  I can't go on."
       "Can  we  pray with you?   Will you pray with us?"  Gene  asked, 
     gently.
       Jim  answered,  his  head  still  bowed.   "Yeah,   I  gotta  do 
     something.  I'm ready to give it up."
       They prayed together as a group.
       This  story  illustrates  what  I mean when I say  you  need  to 
     confess your experience to get it out.   It isn't easy.   After so 
     many years of keeping up an emotional perimeter,  it's hard to let 
     it  down.   But like Jim,  myself and the 'Nam vets in the meeting 
     that night,  you can let it go -  if you want to bad enough.   Our 
     outpost leaders will prod you, but we won't push.   We'll love you 
     as  a  brother  and  watch your back for however  long  it  takes, 
     because  we  know that you want to be free and that it is God  who 
     can give you that freedom.  He gave it to me.   He gave it to Bill 
     Landreth, the man who started Point Man in 1984.  And he has given 
     it to thousands of other men and women like you.
     
     DID GOD GO AWOL IN VIETNAM?
       The mention of God, the Bible, or Christianity is a turn-off for 
     many  Vietnam  veterans.   We believe he went AWOL and turned  his 
     
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     Volume  5, Number 10                             October 24, 1991

     back  on us,  or that he is very evil to have allowed what we  saw 
     and experienced there.  He no longer deserves our faith.
       Like most recruits, many of us went overseas with deep religious 
     impulses.   We  believed  in  God  and expected him  to  be  good, 
     compassionate and just.  We thought he would never fail us.   That 
     he would lead us to victory over an evil foe,  just as he had done 
     in all previous wars this country has fought.   We expected him to 
     preserve us in battle.  But we saw things differently in Vietnam.
       We  all  went  to Vietnam with some degree of  faith,  based  on 
     either  our  beliefs or on the Christian principles  and  morality 
     upon  which  our country was founded.   Many of us lost our  faith 
     because  we  felt  we had been had by God,  our  country  and  our 
     leaders.   We  felt  that God was somewhere else while we  had  to 
     witness and be exposed to horrible things.  So we blamed him.
       I  can remember praying like mad during incoming mortar  attacks 
     or  firefights,  and then getting up off the ground afterwards and 
     saying to myself, "Well, you pulled yourself through another one." 
     Never once did I give credit to God for having saved my life, even 
     though  I  had  prayed furiously during the heat  of  danger.  And 
     that's the point.
       The  majority of the teenagers who went to 'Nam became spiritual 
     casualties.   After  spending long months in that world of  crime, 
     prostitution,  murder  and  humping  through  nearly  impenetrable 
     jungles,  we began to recognize the dark side of our human nature.  
     This  awesome  potential for evil terrified us (teenage  soldiers) 
     into   a  new  rationality  about  life.    The  typical   "grunt" 
     infantryman  became accustomed to living on an animal  level.   To 
     believe that God loved us was difficult because of what we saw and 
     how we had been trained.
       Many  soldiers claim that in basic training they were taught how 
     to  be animals.   "They take you down,  tear you apart and put you 
     back together again piece by piece... the way they want you to be.  
     You are taught not to think, but to react."  "You are taught to be 
     an animal.   Then you're expected to suddenly forget your training 
     as an animal after the war.  I know how to act like an animal.   I 
     don't know how to be human anymore."
       Our  training began the process of dehumanizing us.   It removed 
     God's  basic gifts to us:  love and caring for others.   First  we 
     lost  our  trust  in emotions,  replacing it with  repressed  rage 
     (enough  to  enable  us to kill)  and  with  social  isolationism.  
     Trained to take life,  we reentered a society whose foundation was 
     "Thou  shalt not kill."   We couldn't jibe this with the senseless 
     death and killing we had seen in Vietnam.   So we stuffed our God-
     hate  feelings  along with all the other pains.   And we  confused 
     nationalism  with  God's favor,  expecting him to give us  victory 
     because we were Americans.
       God did not go AWOL in Vietnam.  Instead,  he kept you alive and 
     brought  you  back  for a purpose.   But you won't  discover  that 
     purpose until you make peace with Vietnam and with God.  Point Man 
     can  help you do this.   Contact one of the outposts listed on the 
     next few pages (in the book),, or one of the other agencies.  They 
     will  help you take off your rucksack of pain and return to living 
     life  as  you  were  meant to.   That is  my  invitation  to  you, 
     personally.   I  believe you are now ready to make peace with your 
     past.  Callus or write to us.  We want to hear from you.   Contact 
     us right away; we'll take the point.
     
     
     
     
     NAM VET Newsletter                                         Page 70
     Volume  5, Number 10                             October 24, 1991

     
     
     --For a copy of Chuck Dean's book NAM VET - MAKING PEACE WITH YOUR 
     PAST, write:  
                    Point Man International Ministries
                            Post Office Box 440
                    Mountlake Terrace, Washington 98043
     



















































     NAM VET Newsletter                                         Page 71
     Volume  5, Number 10                             October 24, 1991

                            I
                            I
                          IIIII
                            I
                            I                         88888
                          ITTTI                    o88888888
                          I   I                 o888888888888o 8888
                          I   I              888888888888888888888888
                          I   I             88888888888888888 8888 888
                         xI   Ix             8888888888888888 88888888
                         T III T              88888888888888 888888 88
                         I III I             8888888888888888 88888888
                        xI III Ix             888  888    88888888888'
                        T I   I T                           88888888
                        I I   I I                             8888
                       xI IIIII Ix
                       TI       IT
                       II       II
                       II       II                The Quiet Place
                      IT    |    TI
                     II   --|--   II
                    XIII    |    IIIX                 oooo    o
                   II I           I II             o88 888) (888)
                  II  I    IIII   I  II         o88  88888888 8888)
                 XII  I  II   II  I  IIX       (88      8 88 888888)
                XIII  III       III  IIIX      (8 8 8 88 88 88 8 888)
               XIIII  I           I  IIIIX      (88 8  8  8 88888888)
              II  II  I  xIIIIIx  I  II  II     ( 8 88     888 88888)
                  II  I  T  T  T  I  II        (8888 88 8 8 8888888)
                  II  I  I  I  I  I  II         (8 88888 888 88 88)
                  II  I  I  I  I  I  II          (8888)888 88888)
                  II  I  I II II  I  II            (8) (I8I8I) 8
       oo8888888o II  I  I  I  I  I  II                 IIIII        X
      8888888 888BII  I  I  I  I  I  IIXX                III      X XX
       88 88 88  BII  I  TIIIIIT  I  IIXXX               III     XXXXX
      888888   88BII  I    ....   I  IIXXXXXX            III    XXgXXX
     888 888888888XXXXXII    ...   IIXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX        XXXXXXjXX
                         II    ..    IIXXXXXXXXXXXXXX         XXXXXXpX
      The Vietnam Veteran XII          IIXXXXXXXXXXXXX         XXXXXXX
       has relatives in the  III        IIIXXXXXXXXXXXX         XXXXXX
       Old and New Testaments   III        IIIXXXXXXXXXX         XXXXX
       who also experienced loss   II         IIXXXXXXXXX          XXX
       and grief, guilt and shame,   II         IIXXXXXXXXX         XX
       rejection and betrayal,         I          IXXXXXXXXX
       alienation and estrangement,    I          IXXXX  XX
       isolation and withdrawal.        II          IIXXXX
                                          II          IIX
      Adam and Eve tried to hide from God; II          II
      Moses, born Hebrew and raised Egyptian IIII        IIII
       searched long and hard for his real self; II          II
      Job, losing his children and all he owned,   II          II
       became sorely diseased;                       IIII        III
      Biblical Joseph was rejected by his brothers,      II         II
       lied about and imprisoned;                          I
      Peter denied Jesus.                                    II
                                                                I
      "And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age"
                           Matthew 28:20
     
     NAM VET Newsletter                                         Page 72
     Volume  5, Number 10                             October 24, 1991



     ==================================================================
                             Veterans n' Jobtalk
     ==================================================================

                VETS - Federal Veteran Employment Watchdog
             Veterans' Preference in Federal Employment 10/91
                            By Ronald W. Drach
                    (DAV) National Employment Director
                807 Maine Ave., SW - Washington, DC  20024
                         Input by: G. Joseph Peck
                         NamVet's Managing Editor
                        VETLink #1 - Pittsfield, MA 
                              (413) 443-6313
     
       In  the past,  veterans had no place to go if they believed that 
     veterans' preference rights -- or other special considerations for 
     veterans which are provided for in federal employment --  had been 
     violated.  That will all soon change.  In 1988,  amendments to the 
     law required the Veterans'  Employment and Training Service (VETS) 
     to  accept  veterans'  employment  preference  complaints  against 
     federal agencies and to investigate those complaints.
       The  VETS  is expected to finalize instructions to its staff  on 
     how  to  handle  those complaints in the  next  few  months.   The 
     instructions   will   provide  for  Local   Veterans'   Employment 
     Representatives (LVERs)  and Directors for VETS (DVETS)  to accept 
     complaints  from  veterans who believe that a federal  agency  has 
     failed   to   provide  veterans'   preference  or  other   special 
     considerations  for veterans in filling positions,  promotions  or 
     other   employment  activities.    LVERs  are  assigned  to  state 
     employment  service agencies throughout the United States in every 
     major  city.   DVETS  are  federal  employees,  one  of  which  is 
     assigned, with staff, to each state.
       Because  the process is new,  and instructions and training have 
     not  been finalized,  there may be some initial difficulty in  the 
     processing  of  a complaint.   However,  complaints  through  this 
     system are now being accepted by VETS.  
       At this time,  VETS cannot accept complaints against independent 
     federal  agencies  such as the U.S.  Postal Service and  Tennessee 
     Valley Authority.  However, memorandums of understanding are being 
     negotiated  to allow complaints against these federal agencies  in 
     the future.
       If  you  are  having difficulty in getting  a  complaint  filed, 
     contact  (DAV)  Associate National Employment Director Len Gilmer, 
     who  will  direct  you  to  the appropriate  party  to  take  your 
     complaint.   If  you  have  filed a complaint,  we  (the  Disabled 
     American  Veterans)  would  like a copy of the complaint  and  any 
     follow-up  correspondence  from  the  agency.   Please  send  this 
     information  to:   Mr.  Lennox  E.   Gilmer,   Associate  National 
     Employment Director, Disabled American Veterans, 807 Maine Avenue, 
     S.W., Washington, D.C. 20024.
     








     NAM VET Newsletter                                         Page 73
     Volume  5, Number 10                             October 24, 1991

        Have You Considered ON-THE-JOB or APPRENTICESHIP TRAINING?
                          Input by Fred Sochacki
                NamVet's Veteran Employment Section Editor
                       VETLink #5 BBS - Passaic, NJ
                              (201) 778-1879
     
       The following information was copied from a pamphlet put out by 
     New Jersey State Department of Education, Division of Vocational 
     Education, Office of Veteran's Education and Training, Trenton, 
     NJ.
     
     WHAT IS ON-THE-JOB TRAINING?
       On-The-Job Training (OJT) is training you receive while actually 
     performing a job and earned wages. You may be eligible to receive 
     GI Bill benefits while in an OJT program. OJT programs normally 
     run from six months to two years in length. Some examples of 
     currently approved OJT programs are: Manager, Short Order Cook, 
     Service Technician, Warehouse Person, Shipping and Receiving Clerk 
     and Metal Fabricator.
     
     WHAT IS APPRENTICESHIP TRAINING?
       Apprenticeship Training is on-the-job training coupled with 
     related theory instruction. You receive your GI Bill benefits 
     while working full time and earning wages. Apprenticeship programs 
     are normally from two years to five years in length. Although 
     program registrations with the New Jersey Department of Education 
     and the U.S. Department of Labor are not mandatory for veterans 
     benefits, they are recommended in order to receive a certificate 
     of completion. Some examples of currently approved apprenticeship
     programs are: Carpenter, Electrician, Brick Layer, Iron Worker, 
     Machinist, and Maintenance Mechanic.
     
     IN ADDITION TO THESE PROGRAMS, THERE ARE CURRENTLY MORE THAN 800
     TRADE AREAS WHICH CAN BE APPROVED.
     
     WHEN CAN YOU APPLY FOR BENEFITS?
       As a general rule, veterans have ten (10) years after their 
     separation from active service to use their GI Bill benefits. The 
     Chapter 34 GI Bill (Vietnam Era) ended on December 31, 1989; 
     however, some Chapter 34 veterans are now eligible for benefits 
     under Chapter 30. Contact the Department of Veterans Affairs to 
     determine your eligibility.
     
     HOW TO BEGIN
       1. If you do not have a job, or if you are not working in the 
     occupation you want, contact your local New Jersey State Job 
     Service Office. The Veterans Employment Representative should be 
     able to find an employer who can offer the kind of training you 
     need to reach the occupational objective you select.
       2. Next, have your employer contact the State Approving Agency 
     so that the necessary steps can be taken to approve the training 
     program. Keep in mind that not all occupations can be approved. 
     Please contact the State Approving Agency for more information.
       3. Contact the Department of Veterans Affairs to determine your 
     eligibility and to obtain the necessary application forms.
     
     MEMBERS OF THE RESERVE/NATIONAL GUARD
       Effective October 1, 1990, certain members of the Reserve / 
     National Guard may be eligible for educational assistance 
     
     NAM VET Newsletter                                         Page 74
     Volume  5, Number 10                             October 24, 1991

     allowance for participation in approved on-the-job training and/or 
     apprenticeship training programs. Contact your Reserve/National 
     Guard Unit to verify your eligibility for Chapter 106 benefits.
     
     WHAT IS THE AMOUNT OF THE MONTHLY CHECK? 
       If you are eligible under Chapter 30 (entered active duty after 
     July 1, 1985 and contributed to the Montgomery GI Bill), then your 
     monthly allowance should be either:
     
     For those veterans whose initial obligated period of active duty
         was more than two years -
          First 6 months                         $187.50
          Second 6 months                         137.50
          Remainder of training                    87.50
                                    OR
     For those veterans whose initial obligated period of active duty
         was more than two years -
          First 6 months                         $225.00
          Second 6 months                         165.00
          Remainder of training                   105.00
     
     If an individual participated in "specific" programs, they may be 
     eligible for additional amounts ("kickers").
     
       If you are eligible under Chapter 32 (entered active duty 
     between January 1, 1977 and June 30, 1985 and contributed to the 
     Veterans Educational Assistance Program, your monthly allowance 
     will be determined based upon your contributions. Contact the 
     Department of Veterans Affairs for information on your specific 
     allowance.
      
       If you were eligible under Chapter 34 (entered active duty 
     between February 1, 1955 and December 31, 1976), you may be 
     eligible to receive benefits under the Chapter 30 program. Contact 
     the Department of Veterans Affairs for more specific information.
     
       If you are eligible under Chapter 35 (a surviving spouse or 
     dependent), then your monthly allowance should be:
          First 6 months                         $294.00
          Second 6 months                         220.00
          Third 6 months                          146.00
          Fourth 6 months and succeeding periods   73.00
     
       If you are eligible under Chapter 106 (National Guard or Reserve 
     Member), then your monthly allowance should be:
          First 6 months                         $105.00
          Second 6 months                          77.00
          Third 6 months and succeeding periods    49.00
     
     Contact your Reserve/National Guard Unit to verify your 
     eligibility for Chapter 106 benefits. This entitlement is 
     scheduled to go into effect on October 1, 1990.
     
     WHO TO CONTACT FOR ASSISTANCE:
       If you have any questions concerning your eligibility for 
     benefits, contact [your nearest] Department of Veterans Affairs 
     office.
     
       If you have questions concerning the eligibility or approval of 
     
     NAM VET Newsletter                                         Page 75
     Volume  5, Number 10                             October 24, 1991

     a specific Apprenticeship or On-The-Job Training Program, contact
     [your State's] Approving Agency.
     
     If you have questions concerning employment opportunities,
     contact the Job Service Office nearest you.
     





















































     NAM VET Newsletter                                         Page 76
     Volume  5, Number 10                             October 24, 1991

     OFFICE OF PERSONNEL MANAGEMENT / FEDERAL JOB INFORMATION OFFICES
                          Input by: Fred Sochacki
                NamVet's Veteran Employment Section Editor
                       VETLink #5 BBS - Passaic, NJ
                              (201) 778-1879
     
     Here is a list of all of our Federal Job Information Offices. 
     
     ALABAMA -   Huntsville 
                 3322 Memorial Parkway South, Building 600, Suite 341
                 Huntsville AL 35801-5311
                 Office hours: Weekdays, 9:00AM - 4:00PM (self-service)
                 24-hour recorded message: (205) 544-5802
     
     ALASKA  -   Anchorage:  
                 Federal Building, 222 West 7th Avenue, Box 22
                 Anchorage AK 99513
                 (was 701 C Street)
                 Office hours: Tuesday, Wednesday & Thursday, 11:00AM
                 24-hour recorded message: (602) 271-5821
     
     ARIZONA  -  Phoenix
                 U.S. Postal Service Building, Room 120,
                 522 N. Central Avenue
                 Phoenix AZ 85004
                 Office hours: Weekdays, 9:00AM - 12:00 noon
                 24-hour recorded message: (602) 261-4736
     
     ARKANSAS -  See Oklahoma listing
     
     CALIFORNIA
     Los Angeles (for southern California):
                 Linder Building, 3rd Floor
                 845 S. Figueroa Street
                 Los Angeles CA 90017
                 Office hours: Weekdays, 9:00AM - 12:00 noon
                                         1:00PM - 3:00PM
                 24-hour recorded message: (213) 894-3360
     Sacramento  (for northern California):
                 1029 J Street, 2nd Floor
                 Sacramento CA 95814
                 Recorded message: (916) 551-1464
                 Office hours: Weekdays, 9:00AM - 12:00 noon
     San Diego   (for San Diego area):
                 880 Front Street, Room 4-S-9
                 San Diego CA 92188
                 Office hours: Weekdays, 9:00AM - 12:00 noon
                          (12:00 noon - 3:00PM self-service)
                 24-hour recorded message: (619) 557-6165
     San Francisco (for centeral California)
                 (located at 211 Main St, 2nd Floor, Room 235)
                 PO Box 7405
                 San Francisco CA 94120
                 Office hours: Weekdays, 9:00AM - 12:00 noon
                 24-hour recorded message:  (415) 974-9725
     COLORADO
     Denver:     (located at 12345 W. Alameda Pkwy., Lakewood, CO)
                 P.O. Box 25167
                 Denver CO 80225
     
     NAM VET Newsletter                                         Page 77
     Volume  5, Number 10                             October 24, 1991

                 303-969-7050
                 Office hours: Weekdays, 9:00AM - 3:45PM (self-service)
                 Personal assistance available  12:00 noon - 3:45PM
     
     For job information (24 hrs. a day) in the following States dial:
     Colorado:  303-969-7050
     Montana:   303-969-7052
     North Dakota:  see Minnesota listing
     South Dakota:  see Minnesota listing
     Utah:       303-969-7053
     Wyoming:    303-969-7054
     To request forms 24-hours a day, call 303-969-7055
     
     CONNECTICUT - Hartford
                 Federal Building, Room 613
                 450 Main St - Hartford CT 06103  (203) 240-3263
                 Office hours: Monday - Thursday, 9:00AM - 2:00PM
                 24-hour recorded message: (203) 722-2320
     
     DELAWARE -  See Philadelphia, Pennsylvania listing
     
     DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA
     Metro Area: 1900 E Street, N.W. Room 1416
                 Washington DC 20415
                 Office hours: Weekdays, 8:30AM - 2:30PM
                 Recorded message weekdays 8:30AM - 3:30PM
                                            (202) 653-8468
     
-- 
#Larry W. Jewell (ex-USN)     WWII-L Listowner    jewell@mace.cc.purdue.edu # 
#"Sunday's horoscope is noteworthy because of its strange, sudden and wholly#
#unpredictable and inexplicable occurrences, affecting all phases of life." #
#--"Your Horoscope," L.A. Evening Herald Express, Saturday, Dec. 6, 1941.   #