From: hillel@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (hillel.e.markowitz)
Subject: Re: PLEASE!  I need your help!  Help me keep this love alive!
Organization: AT&T Federal Systems
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 13:34:51 GMT

In article <RLK.92Oct2173353@underprize.think.com> rlk@underprize.think.com (Robert Krawitz) writes:
>In article <1992Oct2.152611.20469@umbc3.umbc.edu> shimoff@umbc4.umbc.edu (Eliot Shimoff) writes:
>
>   Sam Saal replied:
>   >> If you're reading this newsgroup for followups to your article,  please
>   >> understand that Alberto's post is _entirely_ in keeping wiht his usual
>   >> rationalizations of his own break with Jewish tradition (and law) and in
>   >> keeping with his sentiments about his own intermarriage.
>
>   And Yigal commented:
>   >I'm curious as to your reasons for believing that Mr. Pinkas's views on
>   >love between Jews and non-Jews are any more a "rationalization" than are
>   >your views on the same subject.
>
>   Perhaps Sam's comments were occasioned by the fact that no Jewish
>   sources (to the best of my knowledge) see the basis for tradition
>   as the search for happiness.  Sam may be guessing that AAP's asssertion
>   was post hoc justification for his intermarriage.
>
>Which may be a completely bogus guess.  If aap adopted this before
>getting married, it doesn't seem like a post hoc justification, but
>rather a principled decision.
>
>   The second reason may be more compelling, and is rooted in biology
>   (e.g., Richard Dawkins "Selfish Gene") and anthropology (e.g., the
>   cultural materialism of Marvin Harris).  Basically, if "valuing"
>   Judaism means anything, it means ensuring the Judaism continues.
>   Historically, intermarriage has, in the overwhelming majority of 
>   cases, meant that the children or grandchildren will no longer identify
>   themselves as Jews.  Those who value Judaism will thus oppose
>   intermarriage.  Those who do not value Judaism (or who hold other
>   values to be over-riding) will find no objection to intermarriage.
>
>Let's leave biology out of it.  Judaism is not a genetic trait, but
>rather a religion/tradition, and as such it's passed by conscious
>decision.
>
>I'm going to annoy people here (as if I haven't already) with a couple
>of other comments:
>
>1)  Inbreeding tends to weaken the line, hybridizing strengthens it (I'm
>using this in the same sense as Eliot).

If you want to speak of it in that sense then that is one reason
for accepting converts fully (as we do).  However, there are two
ways in which inbreeding is considered. One is to strengthen
desired traits.  Only after the desired traits have been
strengthened is "hybrid vigor" applied to the inbred line.  You
don't "outbreed" beforehand unless you want to remove certain
traits.  However, this has nothing to do with Judaism and
opposition to intermarriage.  We are not "breeding" for physical
traits, we are attempting to maintain our existence as a people.
This is something that intermarriage is totally opposed to.

>
>2)  I don't really know how to say this without *really* offending
>someone, but Judaism should be able to survive even if some people do
>intermarry.

Judaism will survive but the individual family will not.  We are
not talking about a statistical analysis made centuries in the
future which may show that in spite of the disappearance of many
Jews through intermarriage Judaism survived and became stronger
through the resistence of thos who refused to intermarry.  An
example of that may be an analysis of the results of the Spanish
Expulsion, where those who stayed and tried to hide disappeared.
We are talking about an individual case, in which a specific person
is talking about intermarriage.  Even though the Jewish people
would survive this individual's loss, it is still wrong and a
tragedy.

Even if the children or grandchildren return, this individual's
loss is still felt.

_______________________________________________________________
| Hillel Markowitz        |    Im ain ani li mi li             |
| H_Markowitz@att.com     |    Veahavta Leraiecha Kamocha      |
|_________________________|____________________________________|
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish