From: jsbell@acs.ucalgary.ca (Joshua Bell)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.tech
Subject: Re: Trans Warp Drive (in defense of...)
Date: 8 Nov 92 22:53:00 GMT
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta

In article <8NOV199213555604@rosie.uh.edu> cosc1871@rosie.uh.edu (92F06787) writes:
>In article <92Nov08.104438.28658@acs.ucalgary.ca>, jsbell@acs.ucalgary.ca (Joshua Bell) writes...
>>No. The first writer is saying that TransWarp can "*exceed* Warp
>>10 limit". Given that BY DEFINITION in TNG, Warp 10 is INFINITE
>>in speed, this writer is babbling.

>You do not complete the sentence by saying INFINITE in speed in the normal
>/sub-space universe.  Mr. Pitas had the right idea of what I was suggesting.
>I will keep my suggestion straight if you keep your TNG DEFINITION straight :)

Okay. Lets assume TransWarp lets you get to incredibly high
speeds in the 'TransWarp' universe (which was kinda the point of
TransWarp). How the schmoo does this exceed Warp 10 in _our_
universe?

I enter TransWarp at point A, move incredibly fast, and return to
our 'normal' universe at point B. I've travelled slower than Warp
10 to get from A to B. If you don't plan on returning to our
universe, of course, this is meaningless. But any trip, starting
and ending in our inverse, and not travelling backward on the
time axis, can be given a velocity < Warp 10.

And if you're not using normal Warp, then technically you're not
travelling at any Warp speed - so while your _velocity_ can be
measured according to a Warp scale (0 < WF < 10), you're
certainly not gonna be using an _actual_ Warp factor greater than
10 either. If TransWarp uses different peak transition
frequencies (or whatever) then you can be rocking along at
TransWarp 17, but thats still < Warp 10.

Ug. That sentence is convoluted. Basically, you can do whatever
you want with TransWarp physics, but you can't exceed Warp 10 in
our universe (or get somewhere faster than another ship
travelling 'at' Warp 10). If we agree on that, this is all fine
and dandy. :)

[snip]

>Your math is correct, so far as real/sub-space.  I suggested operating
>*outside* of that region.  Fictionally, I can suggest whatever I'd like
>to say, I still maintain that *mathematically* nothing outside the normal
>real/sub-space realm has to be the same, or obey anything just for 
>appearance sake to satisfy the general audience...  

If you go from Point A to Point B in a positive time, your
velocity is 0 < WF < 10, in our universe. What you do in the
meantime is really irrelevant to this discussion. :)

>>Yes, its all fiction. But, no matter where you are in the galaxy,
>>1+1=2. :)

This was a play on a TOS quote by Spock, actually.

>Actually, if you're willing to get into math and physics, the farther one
>gets away from the center of the theoretical 'Big Bang' the slower the
>speed of light apparently gets :)  1+1 doesn't always =2 (except for your
>frame of reference which by your statement would be correct since you
>suggest 'in the galaxy' not the universe.)

Well, I was talking mathematics, but dropping back to physics
'except for your frame of reference' ? Uh-huh. Things are equally
valid in all reference frames.

>  But since this brings up the
>validity of absolutes, then does Warp 10 for TNG stay constant throughout
>the universe since not even our faithful lightspeed might not be
>as predictable as scientists onc thought?  

Light Speed is a 'universal constant' (doesn't mean it doesn't
vary, just that its one of those things like Planck's Number,
etc). Warp 10 is a mathematical definition. Admitedly, a
definition derived from physical quantities, but still a
definition. 

If there's somewhere in the universe where pi <> 3.141592....
thats fine, but pi is still the ratio of the circumference of a
circle to its diameter.

Joshua
|         A shimmering net undulating like an infinite borealis.             |
|                                                  - Chapterhouse: Dune      |
|                                                                            |
| jsbell@acs.ucalgary.ca  Academic Computing Services, University of Calgary |