HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: anthony@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Anthony J Stieber)
Newsgroups: gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: Dylan supported by GNU in future ?
Date: 17 Dec 1992 07:24:45 GMT
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4

In article <1992Dec17.012658.11627@u.washington.edu> tzs@carson.u.washington.edu (Tim Smith) writes:
>So why did Apple pay off the guy who claimed Hypercard infringed his
>patent rather than just litigate his tiny company out of existence?

Because patents are very strong in the US so Apple would probably lose
after spending more money than the payoff.  This is one of those few
examples where patent law hass been beneficial for a small company.
It sounds like he had a software patent which is something that I feel
should not exist anyway.
--
<-:(= Anthony Stieber	anthony@csd4.csd.uwm.edu   uwm!uwmcsd4!anthony
Newsgroups: gnu.misc.discuss
From: bogstad@blaze.cs.jhu.edu (Bill Bogstad)
Subject: Re: Dylan supported by GNU in future ?
Organization: Johns Hopkins Computer Science Department, Baltimore, MD
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 00:29:49 GMT

In article <N4oXVB25w165w@mantis.co.uk> mathew <mathew@mantis.co.uk> writes:
>xjam@cork.CS.Berkeley.EDU (The Crossjammer) writes:
>> mathew don't you have some public domain software you should be writing to
>> free us from the tyranny of GNU instead of picking fights on
>> gnu.misc.discuss?
>
>Yes, but I have rent to pay.

	You get paid for posting to USENET?
Newsgroups: gnu.misc.discuss
From: SEB1525@MVS.draper.com (Steve Bacher)
Subject: Re: alloca (was: makefile for gnu make on SGI)
Organization: Draper Laboratory
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 19:39:00 GMT

In article <19921217111545SEB1525@MVS.draper.com>, I wrote:

>I weighed grabbing alloca.c out of the gcc or emacs distribution.  But
>this alloca requires a function xmalloc() to be defined.  Why not just
>make alloca (and xmalloc) part of gnu make?

It turned out that there already was an xmalloc() in gnu make,
in misc.c.  So using the emacs alloca.c (as is) worked for
building gnu make on SGI.

--
Steve Bacher (Batchman)                 Draper Laboratory
Internet: seb@draper.com                Cambridge, MA, USA
Newsgroups: gnu.misc.discuss,comp.infosystems.gopher
From: jkp@cs.HUT.FI (Jyrki Kuoppala)
Subject: Re: What is what in the GNUniverse?
Followup-To: gnu.misc.discuss
Reply-To: jkp@cs.HUT.FI (Jyrki Kuoppala)
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Distribution: gnu
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 08:50:53 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.031048.20796@samba.oit.unc.edu>, jem@sunSITE (Jonathan Magid) writes:
>Would you believe that I have already done this?  the INDEX file in
>sunsite.unc.edu's mirror of prep (/pub/gnu) contains what you are looking
>for. In a couple of cases, its a few decimal places behind in version
>number (I wrote it a couple of months ago and haven't updated it since).

Great!  At nic.funet.fi, we also had some feedback that the GNU
software distribution is not documented very well, this will help at
least some.  Nic.funet.fi has plans to develop some information
services about available software and perhaps indexes and cataloging
GNU software will be part of it.

The file from sunsite is now also on pub/gnu/INDEX at nic.funet.fi.
Also, at otax.tky.hut.fi there's a gopher server with some pointers to
GNU software and information - gopher is an internet information
service available from boomboc.micro.umn.edu and once you've installed
gopher, you can access the otax GNU directory with

gopher -p English/Topics otax.tky.hut.fi

and then selecting GNU from the menu.  Please however note the README
file on the directory:

"This machine (otax.tky.hut.fi) is an old Sun 3/60 owned by HUT student
body with 8629 accounts on it at the time I'm writing this
and it's got a high load especially in the daytime (time
zone is GMT+2h or GMT+3h in the summer, you can get GMT time on
most Unix systems with "date -u") and the gopher ftp gateway is
implemented so that the stuff is ftp'd to otax and then gopher'd
to you so please don't put too heavy load on this machine 
by ftp'ing megabytes of GNU software via the otax.tky.hut.fi gopher
server, especially at daytime.  Instead you can ftp directly from nic.funet.fi,
prep.ai.mit.edu or any of the other ftp servers 
(see GNU info files/FTP for a list of sites carrying GNU software).

The GNU subtree of this gopher server will probably move to gopher.funet.fi
(which is currently the same machine as nic.funet.fi) in the future, and
this directory will change into a link there."

Ideas for how to organize the software distribution for easy access
via gopher are welcome.  Currently it's just some pointers to the ftp
archives and the abovementioned INDEX file, but some menus like
"Software development tools", "GNU Bulletins", "Editors" and so on and
putting the README files from the packages as well as pointers to the
actual software there would make browsing the archives easier for
people who can't recite the list of GNU packages by heart.

(followups directed to gnu.misc.discuss)

//Jyrki
Newsgroups: gnu.misc.discuss
From: johnm@cory.Berkeley.EDU (John D. Mitchell)
Subject: Re: Dylan supported by GNU in future ?
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 20:05:10 GMT

In article <F7LVVB14w165w@mantis.co.uk> mathew <mathew@mantis.co.uk> writes:
[...]
>I count at least three definitions of the word "free" in that single
>paragraph.  Either you're trying to pull a fast one or you're genuinely
>confused -- which?

Please get a clue, 'free' means different things in different contexts.
That why I put the word in quotes.  I expect people to think about what
I've said rather than just blasting away.  Some people are perfectly
content with totally proprietary solutions.  Many people like markets like
the PC/DOS world where there is so much competition that they can get what
they want for great prices.  Some people demand totally free sofware that
they can whatever the hell they like with.  Note that the example of 386BSD
is misleading since most of the code is copyrighted by the U.C. Regents
(it's just happens to be very open which is the same thing as 'free' to
many people :-).

[...]
>GNU has a history of locking people (both developers (GPL, Apple boycotts,
>etc.) and users) to a closed universe.

Except that GNU/FSF's 'universe' is *much* larger and they are very up
front and honest about their goals/positions.  Apple has a very long and
checkered history.  I never said that GNU/FSF was necessarily the 'right'
thing/way to do things.  I just find that GNU/FSF have some integrity
whereas Apple has very little (IMO).

>But of course, that's *completely* different, because it's a universe *you*
>like.  Right?

I disagree with some facets of the GNU/FSF way of things.  So what?  That's
my right.  I don't use there stuff in places where I'd like to so I end up
going elsewhere.  Peaceful, respectful disagreement is part of life.

John
From: dreier@phnom-penh.berkeley.edu (Roland Dreier)
Newsgroups: gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: Apple/Novell merger discussed
Date: 17 Dec 92 11:36:57
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Math. Department.
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: phnom-penh.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: nelson@crynwr.com's message of Wed, 16 Dec 92 17:22:12 GMT

In article <724526532snx@crynwr.com> nelson@crynwr.com (Russell Nelson) writes:

   In article <suLVVB13w165w@mantis.co.uk> mathew writes:

      bskendig@netcom.com (Brian Kendig) writes:
      > San Jose Mercury News via First!: Executives of Apple Computer Inc.
      > and Novell Inc. have engaged in top-level discussions in recent weeks
      > about the possibility of rewriting the rules of the computing world by
      > merging their two companies into an $8 billion hardware-software
      > giant.

      That would be interesting.  We'd get to see whether the FSF would stick
      to their professed principles and boycott DOS machines.

   Being ridiculous as usual, eh?  DOS machines do more than run DOS.
   They also run Linux very well.  In fact, Linux runs a LOT faster on a
   DOS machine than DOS does.  Something about using it like a 32-bit
   machine instead of an 8-bit machine.

I think, by definition, a DOS machine runs DOS.  The hardware may also
run Linux, but that's missing the point.  If you run Linux on a PC
clone, it is a Linux machine, not a DOS machine. It is quite possible
to support Linux while boycotting MS-DOS.
--
Roland Dreier                                        dreier@math.berkeley.edu
From: dreier@durban.berkeley.edu (Roland Dreier)
Newsgroups: gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: Dylan supported by GNU in future ?
Date: 14 Dec 92 23:52:42
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Math. Department.
	<FISCHER.92Dec15014923@thor.iesd.auc.dk>
	<1992Dec15.042930.23371@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>
NNTP-Posting-Host: durban.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: johnm@cory.Berkeley.EDU's message of Tue, 15 Dec 1992 04:29:30 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.042930.23371@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> johnm@cory.Berkeley.EDU (John D. Mitchell) writes:
   [Stuff about free implementations of Dylan deleted...]

   I, for one, believe that Dylan is mostly just a tool for Apple to get
   people locked into their universe by promising all sorts of
   performance/abilities/etc. on hardware that has yet to be shown (Newton)
   which has already been majorly backpeddled on because Apple knows they
   can't deliver.  Sculley has made all sorts of pronoucements about the
   future of the palmtop/PDA/PIM/whatever and he has neither the hardware
   (though I believe they have cut the specs again to try and get the cost
   down) nor the software (a Dylan based OS, I believe, which certainly is not
   proven) to fulfill those big words so he has stated that the market will
   now arrive (surpise :-) at about the same projected dates for a real,
   cheap, version of Newton (which, of course, gives the OS/Dylan people time
   to gain converts and make the thing actually work efficiently, etc.).

Sounds almost like the strategy that some folks (can't remember the
name of the organization right now, sorry) used a few years back.  I
seem to remember reading some "Manifesto" or something years ago,
promising a free Unix clone; but it seems to just have turned out to
be a scam for getting programmers to donate their code to this
organization and gulling idealists into proselytizing their silly
politics.
--
Roland Dreier                                        dreier@math.berkeley.edu
From: friedman@gnu.ai.mit.edu (Noah Friedman)
Newsgroups: gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: What is what in the GNUniverse?
Date: 18 Dec 92 17:01:35
Organization: Free Software Foundation, 675 Mass Ave. Cambridge, MA 02139
NNTP-Posting-Host: nutrimat.gnu.ai.mit.edu
In-reply-to: hanche@ams.sunysb.edu's message of 16 Dec 92 22:26:32 GMT

In article <HANCHE.92Dec16172632@ptolemy.ams.sunysb.edu> hanche@ams.sunysb.edu (Harald Hanche-Olsen) writes:
>The only way I see to get information about a GNU package is to download
>it, or ask in this forum.  Both are a massive waste of bandwidth (and my
>time) if it turns out I am not interested after all.

>So why isn't there a nice, clean README file there, containing a short
>little description of each package, that I can download and study at my
>leisure?  It would cost so little, and be so useful.

Ok, I've put a file called DESCRIPTIONS on prep, which briefly describe
each package.  I don't know how often this will be updated---presumably
only when people complain enough about it being out of date.  :-)
From: bartm@cv.ruu.nl (Bart Muyzer)
Newsgroups: gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Adding Dutch wordlist to ispell???
Date: 17 Dec 92 13:15:19 GMT
Organization: University of Utrecht, 3D Computer Vision Research Group
Originator: bartm@mind.cv.ruu.nl

Hi,

Last week I installed ispell 3.0 with all english (and britisch, and american)
wordlists. Now I would like to add a 2MB list of Dutch words. I figured I
should re-make ispell with dutch being a FOREING language. However, make
complains:
	Don't know how to make dutch.aff
which I can understand since I don't have that file.

Questions:
1. How, in general, can one add words and/or wordlists to ispell? Should
   ispell be re-compiled every time in this case?
2. Is there an dutch.aff file available somewhere? I saw an english.aff and
   a german.aff and glanced through them. It didn't make me feel confident
   about makeing a dutch.aff myself :-|

I hope anybody can help me out. Thanks in advance for your time,

							>] Bartm [<
-- 
Bart Muyzer, Systems and Network Administrator, [NIC-Whois handle: BJM9]
     3D Computer Vision, Room E02.222, University Hospital Utrecht,
     Heidelberglaan 100, 3584 CX Utrecht, Holland. E-mail: bartm@cv.ruu.nl
     Fax: +31-30-513399. Tel: +31-30-506711 (w), +31-3402-52157 (h). 
Newsgroups: gnu.misc.discuss
From: jimlynch@netcom.com (Jim Lynch)
Subject: Re: What is what in the GNUniverse?
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Distribution: gnu
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 06:05:15 GMT

Harald,

You like LISP? Get gcc-2.3.2, un Z it, un tar it, print the INSTALL file,
configure for your machine (and use '--prefix=$HOME' unless you have your own
machine) and do a 'make LANGUAGES=c', then keep going until you get it
installed... now, you can compile the rest of GNU... Check out 'Using and
Porting GNU CC' (available from the nearest 4-year university) and note how
the descriptions of machine instructions look like LISP... To see more, print
a copy of your-machine.md and your-machine.h in the gcc-2.3.2/config directory.

At this point, you have a compiler that is one of the better ones in the unix
world (and probably outside as well) which is (relatively) easily ported to
other architectures (because of its pattern table-driven code generator or
'back end' as it's called) and is also (relatively) easy to design the language
that it compiles. It is also highly configurable, allowing one to set the
number of bits for each basic data type, among a large array of other config
options.

Once you compile the compiler using the compiler that came with your machine,
you compile the compiler again using itself. If you're debugging some changes
you made, you might want to compile the compiler with itself one more time and
compare the object files byte-by-byte. All this functionality is in the make 
file and the 'configure' file.

The compiler has about 12-15 optimization phases; when you have them all turned
on, things are loow... Also, once you're hooked on playing with compiler
innards, it's likely to take half your life...

This text CopyLeft 1992 by Jim Lynch.

Newsgroups: gnu.misc.discuss
From: schrod@iti.informatik.th-darmstadt.de (Joachim Schrod)
Subject: Re: Dylan supported by GNU in future ?
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 11:17:53 GMT
Organization: TU Darmstadt

In article <1992Dec17.012658.11627@u.washington.edu>, tzs@carson.u.washington.edu (Tim Smith) writes:
> 
> So why did Apple pay off the guy who claimed Hypercard infringed his
> patent rather than just litigate his tiny company out of existence?

Pay off ??? You're either kidding or you don't follow the discussion
on software patents.

Read the article of this guy in the CACM (`Debunking the Myth of
Software Patents'), where he tells you in his introduction about the
behaviour of Apple.
    Btw, the most funny thing in this article is that this guy was
_not_ able to enforce his patent, that he is now to shy to suit
(obviously because he fears the `quality' of Apple's lawyers), and
that he still defends software patents. Oh yes, of course you might
like this article: He rails about RMS being a marxistic fool.
    As my grandmother used to say: There are folks who'll learn never...

--
Joachim
Newsgroups: gnu.misc.discuss
From: jeffb@world.std.com (Jeffrey T Berntsen)
Subject: Is there a GNU version of Unix pack, unpack, pcat?
Organization: The World @ Software Tool & Die
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 04:30:28 GMT

I'm looking for public domain, freeware, etc. copies of the Unix pack, unpack
and pcat compression programs.  Yes, I know there's much better out there
and I have them, but I need to uncompress files made with Unix pack on a non
Unix system.  Can anyone help?

Jeff Berntsen
jeffb@world.std.com

Newsgroups: gnu.misc.discuss
From: peltz@cerl.uiuc.edu (Steve Peltz)
Subject: Re: Concerns about the FSF and the GNU project
Organization: Computer Based Education Research Lab - University of Illinois
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 06:50:27 GMT

In article <KFOGEL.92Dec10222029@occs.cs.oberlin.edu> kfogel@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Karl Fogel) writes:
>I am just confused
>by a scenario in which free software is made illegal and proprietary
>software is the only legal kind. What if I take my proprietary
>software and tell everyone "Hey, here's the source, go ahead, it's all
>yours!" ? Then it's free software (of a sort), and still proprietary
>(I did what I wanted with my property, right?)

How about if they changed the tax code so that anyone using your "free"
software has to pay income tax on the "fair market value"...? Then
define the fair market value of a C compiler as, say $2000, and make
everyone pay 30% ($600) to use it. Of course, the commercial producers
will get to play funny games with bundling, discounts, upgrade prices,
etc in order to keep their prices in the same ballpark without dropping
the fair market value of the "free" version.
-- 
Steve Peltz
Internet: peltz@cerl.uiuc.edu	PLATO/NovaNET: peltz/s/cerl
From: devet@win.tue.nl (Arjan de Vet)
Newsgroups: gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: Adding Dutch wordlist to ispell???
Keywords: ispell nispell
Date: 18 Dec 92 12:12:35 GMT
Reply-To: devet@win.tue.nl (Arjan de Vet)
Followup-To: gnu.misc.discuss
Organization: Eindhoven University of Technology, the Netherlands

In article <1992Dec17.131519.1911@cv.ruu.nl> bartm@cv.ruu.nl (Bart Muyzer)
writes:

|Last week I installed ispell 3.0 with all english (and britisch, and american)
|wordlists. Now I would like to add a 2MB list of Dutch words. I figured I
|should re-make ispell with dutch being a FOREING language. However, make
|complains:
|	Don't know how to make dutch.aff
|which I can understand since I don't have that file.
|
|Questions:
|1. How, in general, can one add words and/or wordlists to ispell? Should
|   ispell be re-compiled every time in this case?
|2. Is there an dutch.aff file available somewhere? I saw an english.aff and
|   a german.aff and glanced through them. It didn't make me feel confident
|   about makeing a dutch.aff myself :-|

Yes. There is a dutch.aff file made by me. Have a look at:

	ftp.win.tue.nl:/pub/textproc/ispell/*

Arjan
Newsgroups: gnu.misc.discuss
From: jem@sunSITE.unc.edu (Jonathan Magid)
Subject: Re: What is what in the GNUniverse?
Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill
Distribution: gnu
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 03:10:48 GMT

In article <HANCHE.92Dec16172632@ptolemy.ams.sunysb.edu> hanche@ams.sunysb.edu (Harald Hanche-Olsen) writes:
>FTPing to prep.ai.mit.edu I find in the pub/gnu directory about 88
>packages (=programs, libraries and program collections).  This is all
>very impressive, and must represent countless hours of good work by
>innumerable volunteers.  A lot of the stuff there I already use, and
>there might be lots more that could be useful to me.  However,
>
>(setq whine-mode t)
>

[2/3 of whine deleted]

>So why isn't there a nice, clean README file there, containing a short
>little description of each package, that I can download and study at
>my leisure?  It would cost so little, and be so useful.  If each
>author of GNU software was required to provide such a description (max
>10 lines, say) then a coordinator could produce the required file in
>no time at all.
>
>(setq whine-mode nil)

Would you believe that I have already done this?  the INDEX file in
sunsite.unc.edu's mirror of prep (/pub/gnu) contains what you are looking
for. In a couple of cases, its a few decimal places behind in version
number (I wrote it a couple of months ago and haven't updated it since).

If somebody in charge likes, I can donate my list to prep as well.

jem.
ps. use hello. its the most useful utility for the novice. :)

-- 
Jonathan Magid     jem@sunSITE.unc.edu       sunSITE Administrator
Virtual pizza Delivery (tm)::faxed in 30 cycles or less or you get it
----------------------------------------FREE!!!-----------------------
From: sef@Kithrup.COM (Sean Eric Fagan)
Newsgroups: gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: Apple/Novell merger discussed
Date: 18 Dec 1992 12:32:35 -0800
Organization: UUNET Communications
NNTP-Posting-Host: ftp.uu.net

In article <oiNZVB46w165w@mantis.co.uk> mathew <mathew@mantis.co.uk> writes:
>> What does Novell have to do with MS-Windows?
>You can run Windows on top of Novell DR-DOS.

You can run MS-DOS programs on a Mac, as well.  That does not call for
a boycott of MS-DOS.

Just how deliberate are you actually being, and how much of it is you just
getting off on the amount of noise you're making?

Newsgroups: gnu.misc.discuss
From: tzs@carson.u.washington.edu (Tim Smith)
Subject: Re: Dylan supported by GNU in future ?
Organization: University of Washington School of Law, Class of '95
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 01:26:58 GMT

anthony@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Anthony J Stieber) writes:
>it does not have much resources and would probably lose.  Suits are in
>Apple's best interest as it has much resources and often wins.  Apple
>only loses against similarly large, powerful companies.
>
>The issue just isn't proprietary vs open, litigious vs coopertive, it's
>also the corporate monolith vs the little guy.

So why did Apple pay off the guy who claimed Hypercard infringed his
patent rather than just litigate his tiny company out of existence?

--Tim Smith
Newsgroups: gnu.misc.discuss
From: bglenden@colobus.cv.nrao.edu (Brian Glendenning)
Subject: Re: quality of GNU stuff vs. Sun OS stuff
Organization: National Radio Astronomy Observatory
	<PREECE.92Dec3171718@predator.urbana.mcd.mot.com>
	<1992Dec15.082826.1@ducvax.auburn.edu>
Distribution: gnu
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 17:40:42 GMT


This is what I do:

"Could someone please [help me with X]. Please respond by email; I'll
send a summary to interested parties or post a followup to the net if
there is enough interest."

I figure this lets email respondents know that their responses might
be handed to third parties, which is fair. I of course honour requests
not to send anything that might be controversial to third parties.

Brian
--
       Brian Glendenning - National Radio Astronomy Observatory
bglenden@nrao.edu          Charlottesville Va.           (804) 296-0286
Newsgroups: gnu.misc.discuss
From: witr@rwwa.COM (Robert Withrow)
Subject: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Alpha release Linux/GNU/X unix clone on CDROM for PCs
Reply-To: witr@rwwa.com
Organization: R.W. Withrow Associates
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 22:16:04 GMT

In article <FRIEDMAN.92Dec16005353@nutrimat.gnu.ai.mit.edu>,
 friedman@gnu.ai.mit.edu (Noah Friedman) writes:

| Stallman said he thought it would only take 2 years to finish the entire
| system.  He underestimated a lot;

Oh, I can understand that he might have underestimated the time to develop
the entire GNU OS.

But Emacs V19 was to be released in about a month or so when my 5-year-old
was -2!

I've since come to understand that Emacs V19 was just a cruel hoax.   ;-)

-- 
 Robert Withrow, Tel: +1 617 598 4480, Fax: +1 617 598 4430, Net: witr@rwwa.COM
 R.W. Withrow Associates, 21 Railroad Ave, Swampscott MA 01907-1821 USA
Newsgroups: gnu.misc.discuss