From: bunker@physun.physics.mcmaster.ca (Alex Bunker)
Subject: Re: Intellectuals and totalitarianism (was Re: WORLD GOVERNMENT)
Organization: Dept. of Physics & Astronomy, McMaster University
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 22:42:15 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.151706.8513@oracle.us.oracle.com> mfriedma@uucp (Michael Friedman) writes:
>In article <1992Aug19.202256.28603@mcshub.dcss.mcmaster.ca> bunker@physun.physics.mcmaster.ca (Alex Bunker) writes:
>>In article <1992Aug19.170820.12325@ncar.ucar.edu> gary@isis.cgd.ucar.edu (Gary Strand) writes:
>>>ab> Alex Bunker
>>>gs> Gary Strand
>
>>>ab> And that explains why your average Joe blue-collar steelworker is a
>>>ab> socialist
>>>ab> and votes NDP in Canada, Labour in the UK, SDP in Germany, socialist in
>>>ab> France, liberal-democrat in the US etc..  
>
>>>  Also, not quite. Recall hearing about "Reagan Democrats"? The Democratic
>>>  party of the late '70s had gotten too far left for too many people, inclu-
>>>  ding blue-collar workers, and they showed their dissatisfaction by voting
>>>  for Reagan and Republicans in 1980 and 1984. Besides, you were bemoaning
>>>  the fact that (in your view) there wasn't a really Left party in the US.
>>>  Either the Democratic party is (to support this argument) or there isn't,
>>>  (to support your older argument.) Which is it?
>
>>Isolated incident in general blue collar workers and lefty intellectuals
>>belong to the same political party and have the same voting habits
>>I am talking about a global average here.
>
>I hardly think you can call tens of millions of people an isolated incident.
>
>
>>>  In any case, your average lefty intellectual is so far removed from
>>>  basic theories on government power, economics, and monetary policies, that
>>>  it's no wonder that wherever and whenever their ideas have been tried,
>>>  (at best) the society as a whole has remained stuck, or has declined. I
>>>  am including Sweden, Norway, Germany, France, and so on here too.
>
>>this is very funny. you just mentioned a set of countries EVERY one of which 
>>has a healthier economy than the US as well as being more socially advanced.
>>how are these societies stuck or declining. AND THE USA IS NOT !?!?!?!?!
>
>Mind explaining your definition of a 'healthier' economy?  It must be
>something pretty weird if Sweden, France, and Germany have healthier
>economies than us.  (Germany, at least, has an excuse - East Germany -
>but the others don't.)

Have you seen the America #1 posts? USA has 30X the child poverty rate 
of sweden and 20X that of Germany. The quality of life index rates the
USA WAY DOWN because of lack of governemt health and welfare programs.
Thes countries all have lower poverty levels and are nowhere near
in as much dept. The USA is a social and economic BASKETCASE
due to the sillyness of reaganomics and lack of an industrial policy.
YOU must be politically blind not to see that!

>>Luckily (for Americans)
>>YOU are in the minority
>>and the majority of americans realize this and are about to elect
>>Bill Clinton as the next president who will invoke an industrial
>>policy.
>
>I've bumped into a lot of dummycrats who make this claim.  So far the
>only one whose been willing to put any money on it is my boss.
>
>So let me ask you... if it really matters, if it will hit you in your
>pocket book... how sure are you?  How much money at what odds?
>
>>>  It isn't on the side of the socialist intellectuals, I can tell you that.
>
>>last time I checked he is (In most countries)
>
>But not in the country with the highest productivity, highest GNP per
>capita, and highest standard of living.   I wonder which is the cause
>and which is the effect.

Ifyou think this country is the USA then someone has fed you a little
fib. let me let you in on a little secret. THIS SENTENCE IS SO FALSE
IT IS HILARIOUS

HIGHEST STANDARD OF LIVING??????????????????????????????????
HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!

with 30X the child poverty rate of Sweden?

What actually is you definition of standard of living?
It MSUT be REAL BIZARRE!

>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>I am not an official Oracle spokesman.  I speak for myself and no one else.

Alex
(The Social-Democratic secular humanist)
Newsgroups: misc.headlines,alt.activism,talk.politics.misc