HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: borden@head-cfa.harvard.edu (Dave Borden)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,soc.culture.african.american,alt.politics.clinton
Subject: Re: Political Power--Please start crossposting
Date: 14 Dec 92 16:34:30 GMT
Reply-To: borden@m5.harvard.edu
Organization: Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory, Cambridge, MA,  USA

In article <1gg9qcINN2rk@tamsun.tamu.edu> achin@math.tamu.edu (Andrew Chin) writes:

>I believe that AAs make up 3.0 percent of the US population, although there
>is evidence to suggest that AAs were substantially undercounted in the 1990
>Census.  There are 14 Cabinet and 12 additional top-level Executive Office
>of the President posts.  We should expect an AA to fill a Cabinet post about
>once every three presidential administrations, instead of, say, none yet.
>
>It's true that if there are no AAs in Clinton's cabinet this does not indicate
>racism.  On the other hand, it will perpetuate the misperception at the heart
>of most discrimination against Asian-Americans throughout history -- that we
>are foreigners, and that a genetically Asian face is not the picture of an
>American.
>
>I won't disapprove of Clinton simply because he doesn't appoint an AA to
>the cabinet.  But I hope you'll excuse me if I take his claim that his
>cabinet "looks like America" with a hefty grain of salt.

That's reasonable.  I think the problem starts at a lower level, however.
Clinton is appointing people who have risen in the ranks in politics and
government, which is sensible.  In order for there to be Asian-Americans
in a high level position like the cabinet, there have to first be more Asian-
Americans in lower levels of government.  This is, in my opinion, where the
issue of race-relations needs to be dealt with, as far as government is
concerned.  When that happens, then the higher level positions will probably
take care of themselves.  And it will be more meaningful in and of itself.

   - Dave Borden
     borden@m5.harvard.edu
From: georgew@hspice.portal.com (George Wu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Chinese Students from the Upper Class (Was: Re: Political Power (Re: New Topics))
Keywords: underdog
Date: 17 Dec 92 17:01:53 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Meta - Software

In article <1992Dec15.213834.20950@leland.Stanford.EDU> underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:

>[ . . . ] many of them or their parents used the grad. school route to
>enter the USA; they are part of the Chinese-ge immigration that comes
>exclusively from the Chinese-cu upper class.

     Bzzt.  Thank you for playing, now if you'll just follow Mary backstage
she'll show you your consolation prize.

     My father comes from a poor family and used the graduate system to make
a better living.

								George


-- 
----
George J Wu,  Superior Maker of Technical Snafus,  georgew@metasw.com
Meta-Software,  1300 White Oaks Road,  Campbell, CA 95008,  (408) 369-5400
Never be the first to believe.  Never be the last to deceive.  ---  Chess
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Tuesday, 15 Dec 1992 18:43:46 CST
From: <U58402@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: looking for asian jokes
 <631@blue.cis.pitt.edu> <2535@usna.NAVY.MIL>

Why do most (favorite Asian ethnic group here) have cataracts?

Because they don't like Rincoln-Continentals.

 [It works best when you say it aloud.]

Wilbur Pan                                  u58402@uicvm.uic.edu
----------------------------------------------------------------
This article does not represent the opinions of the Deans of the
College of Medicine of the University of Illinois at Chicago.
UIC administrators aren't that clever.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: ajh@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Alan Hu)
Subject: Re: chopsticks vs forks
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 23:54:16 GMT

In article <893@blue.cis.pitt.edu> babar+@pitt.edu (Jonggu Moon) writes:
>
>sorry for posting useless talk on here 
>during final exams ( I'm finished  btw )
>
>Why did Asia devlope the chopsticks while Europe devloped the fork ?
>
>- jon

Probably materials available and historical accident:
Europeans were eating with their bare hands, and later bare hands
and knives, until quite recently, anthropologically speaking.
(The Oxford English Dictionary gives 1463 as the earliest reference
to forks being used for food.)  Chopsticks are much older.  Possibly
the availability of bamboo encouraged their development.
						--Alan Hu
Xref: sparky soc.culture.asian.american:10698 soc.culture.african.american:12794 alt.politics.clinton:18456
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,soc.culture.african.american,alt.politics.clinton
Subject: Re: The Clinton Cabinet
From: galan@netlink.cts.com (Greg Gross)
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 92 21:34:55 PST
Organization: NetLink Online Communications, San Diego CA

achin@math.tamu.edu (Andrew Chin) writes:

> What do you bet that when President-elect Clinton gets through with
> making his Cabinet "look like America," there will be African-Americans
> and Hispanics, but no Asian-Americans in it?
> -- 
> Andrew Chin    Dept. of Math.    Texas A&M U.    College Station, TX 77843
> achin@math.tamu.edu   Probably not TAMU's exact opinions.   (409) 845-0261
>                 * Fighting racism is not a special interest *


Okay, so let's try going beyond cynicism, Andrew.

Look at the Cabinet posts and suggest some Asian-Americans for some of 
them, specific people. And try for some diversity, since as we know 
already, all Asians aren't alike.

G.

--
Gregory Alan Gross      Welcome to life, where no good deed goes unpunished.
San Diego Union-Tribune         (619) 293-1270 (voice)
P.O. Box 191                    (619) 293-2333 (fax)
San Diego, CA 92112-4106        galan@netlink.cts.com (Internet)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: ajh@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Alan Hu)
Subject: Re: A question of "loyalty" & this marriage thing
Keywords: asian, american, racism
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 07:33:43 GMT

In article <1741@rwja.umdnj.edu> jpark@rwja.umdnj.edu (John Park) writes:

I guess we need the negative votes as well as the positive to keep
some perspective:

>Just out of curiosity, how many AA's out there have a strong parental
>pressure to marry asian?
No
>to marry within the same culture, ie chinese w/chinese, japanese w/japanese
>	korean w/korean ?
No
>to only date asian?
No
>what reasons do parents give for their restrictions (if they have one)?
>	do you think it is racism, or cultural pride, or keeping
>	tradition alive, or a belief that cross culture marriages
>	will screw up the children or what??
n.a.
>If you do go against your parents wishes about marriage, how much do you
>think that they will be hurt or angry or disown you or happy :) ?
I think they'd accept, at least superficially, but they'll probably always
	think I could haev done "better".
>Is their a conflict between family loyalty & love and love of your non-approved
>	fiance or SO?
haven't had this problem
>
>-John "totally perplexed" Park

--Alan "I know *everything* about *everything*!" Hu  :-)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: lam@popeye.comm.mot.com (Dan Lam)
Subject: Re: Inter-racial dating
Organization: Land Mobile Products Sector, Motorola INC.
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 17:40:51 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.162402.24800@oakhill.sps.mot.com> rjchou@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Ri Jen Chou) writes:
>lam@popeye.comm.mot.com (Dan Lam) writes:
>
>>It's Xmas and it is the season to
>>be honest about anything including my sexuality.  I don't know why I am
>>such a optimist cos I can sense a lot of conservative Chinese_cu out
>>there sending flames this way.                        i^^^^^^^^^

                                                         Sorry I don't
mean to offend anyone here.  This is just a bad choice of
word/adjective.  I just have my self to blame --- I am reading too much
net news .... 
>
>When I came out to this group
>I only received one piece of hate mail, but got lots of encouragement.
>There are a lot of decent people in this group.
>                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
                     This is very nice to hear.  I have emailed and
thanked Ri Jen for his support of my posting.  Following is the message
I sent him and I'd like to post it here since it gives *some* of the
reasons for my posting.
>-- 
>Ri-Jen Chou   		rjchou@decimator.sps.mot.com
-------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Ri Jen,

Thanks for writng.  You mail came at a time when I need it the most.  I really
appreciate you encouragement.  Yes I was surprised at what I did on also.
I guess I have posted quite a few F-ups for I was kinda irriated by this Arthur 
 And I was thinking people would think who am I that knows so much about
AIDS/homo/bi etc.  I just thought I might as well reveal my sexuality in *hope*
that people won't feel distant from me, wont think that I just made up stories/stats
like Hu does to suit my arguements.  As you probably know that I do not have much
experiences (not just sexual ones) about glb but I have read a lot about AIDS,
discriminations toward gays, gays rights/culture/movement etc.  being asian I can
certainly feel and simpathize with any oppressed groups.  Most of the things I 
learned are from mainstream papers/magazine etc so my views certainly do not 
represent glb.  But the point is I'll try to be honest about myself and share my
feeling with other aa's such that we can all grow together in this very perplexxing
society. 

dan
--
|       Daniel Lam  danl@comm.mot.com  Chicago, Il, USA        |  
|         ....  Merry Xmas, Don't drink and spike  ....        |
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Xref: sparky soc.culture.asian.american:11008 ca.politics:10434 soc.motss:53033
From: jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,ca.politics,soc.motss
Subject: Re: More AIDS absurdity - 1Billion AIDS cases
Date: 18 Dec 92 21:46:41 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

>swap needles. That's why we're effectively immune from AIDS 

"Immune" has a specific meaning in medicine.  Your risk may be reduced, but
you're not immune.  Immunity means that you would not become infected if
you were exposed to the virus.  That's not the same as reducing the risk of
exposure. 

>The SF Young Mens' survey showed that even men who ALWAYS used condoms had
>HIV+ at just as high a rate as those with 20+ partners. Safe sex is NOT
>safe, there is no documented evidence that use of condoms is related to
>to a recorded zero HIV infection rate.
>(If there is evidence, I want to see it)

I'd like to see the SF Young Men's survey you've mentioned several times,
but I haven't been able to track it down.  Could you post the name and
address of the author(s) along with the year of publication and any other
information which would help me locate it? 

>Safe sex 100 times is still a million times more unsafe than monogamy or
>abstention.

That statement is too vague to have much meaning.  


-- 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Hamilton   jfh@netcom.com   P. O. Box 281107   SF, CA   94128-1107
From: achin@math.tamu.edu (Andrew Chin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: How about an archive?
Date: 16 Dec 1992 03:04:38 GMT
Organization: Dept of Mathematics, Texas A&M University
Distribution: world
Reply-To: achin@math.tamu.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: math.tamu.edu

Now that Alan and Russil have viable FAQs, isn't it time we had an 
anonymous ftp archive for the group?  Besides the FAQs, the archive 
could maintain:

-- my movie/book poll
-- annotated bibliography of periodicals and books currently in print 
   on Asian-American studies, with ordering information
-- directory of national, regional and local community groups
-- records of racial incidents, media and consumer complaints, and
   significant news events
-- drafts of proposals, policies and speeches which can serve as
   source material for future activism
-- Arthur Hu and Hoyt Sze columns and other concurrently published
   and posted writings
-- legal research pertaining to civil rights and immigration
-- database of sizes and locations of Asian-American communities

(Any more ideas?)

As I'm moving to London soon, I'm probably not the right one to host
the archive, even if I had the requisite access privileges.

Getting there from here will require two steps:

1.  A sysop willing to devote a few megs to the effort;

2.  A volunteer for each item to be maintained.  I'm willing to continue
    with the movie/book poll and to kick off the bibliography, if we
    get to this point and others are willing to pitch in.
---
Andrew Chin    Dept. of Math.    Texas A&M U.    College Station, TX 77843
achin@math.tamu.edu   Probably not TAMU's exact opinions.   (409) 845-0261
                * Fighting racism is not a special interest *

Xref: sparky soc.culture.asian.american:10828 alt.politics.clinton:18677
From: borden@head-cfa.harvard.edu (Dave Borden)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,alt.politics.clinton
Subject: Re: Political Power--Why the quotas?
Date: 15 Dec 92 19:59:11 GMT
Reply-To: borden@m5.harvard.edu
Organization: Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory, Cambridge, MA,  USA

In article <BzAFwC.FF8@quake.sylmar.ca.us> brian@quake.sylmar.ca.us (Brian K. Yoder) writes:

>One thing I notice about his cabinet appointments (and VP choice) is that
>Clinton is surrounding himself with people who have never really anything
>in the real world (ie. outside government/academia).

Haven't a number of his appointments been businesspeople?  Yes, I'm quite
positive about that.  There's the guy from Goldman-Sachs, there's the guy
from Arkla (Clinton's childhood friend), Bentsen spent a long time in
business too...  Who are you looking for to fill the cabinet anyway?

  - Dave Borden
    borden@m5.harvard.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,ca.politics,soc.motss
From: guido@island.COM (Guido Marx)
Subject: Re: More AIDS absurdity - 1Billion AIDS cases
Organization: Island Graphics Corp.  San Rafael, Ca.
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 17:49:17 GMT

In article <71817@cup.portal.com> Arthur_T_Hu@cup.portal.com writes:
>Well, that's great
>- Not everyone is at risk. The rate of HIV+ among Catholic nuns is extremely
>  low. It is absurd to say there is not difference between the risk to a
>  gay in San Francisco, or drug user in NYC and a farmer in South Dakota are
> the same. There is a huge difference. Anyone who said AIDS does not
>  discrminate does not discriminate between a 1 in 2 chance of being HIV+
>  for a gay drug user and 1 in 100,000 for the farmer in Fargo.


Of course it is absurd to say that the risk for different individuals is
the same.  Of course, that also isn't what the original poster said.  He
said that EVERYONE is at risk.  That is absolutely true.  Even Catholic
nuns occasionally need a blood transfusion.  Even now, that entails some
risk of contracting AIDS (this risk is quite small, but non-zero).
Saying that we are all at risk in no way implies that we all share an
equal risk.  Knowing that your risk was small isn't going to do you any
good if it turns out that you're HIV+.

Guido


Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: jpak@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Jim Pak)
Subject: Re: Old-fashioned Asian men (was Re: Asian-male, nerd, geek, etc.)
Reply-To: jpak@manute.sps.mot.com
Organization: Motorola Inc.  Austin, Tx.
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 19:06:21 GMT

In article <1992Dec10.171241.5369@nas.nasa.gov> choi@win48.nas.nasa.gov (Diana Choi) writes:
>>You make it seem like "old-fashioned" Asian men are like poison!  And in all
>>fairness, you're not the only one.  It seems like *everyone* here, women and
>>men, AA and non-AA alike seem to despise the "old-style" Asian man.  Geez, do
>>all you 1st- and 2nd- gen AA kids hate your dads so much?
>>[...]
>>
>>Sheesh!!  Is there no perspective in this newsgroup?
>>
>>Jim
>
>1. I'm 4th gen not 1st and 2nd.  

I'm well aware of that.  You posted your bio on this newsgroup before,
remember?

That comment about "do all you 1st- and 2nd- gen AA kids" wasn't for you,
                       ^^^^^^^
unless you think "all you" == Diana Choi.

>2. I don't hate my dad, and he's not old-fashioned and I wouldn't hate
>   him even if he were.

Again, my comments were not directed only to you.

>3. The line about getting rid of our outmoded parents was a joke.....
>   get it ....ha ha ha ha :) :) :)

Well, people who don't use smileys tend to have their jokes taken the wrong
way.  Theater geek is a prime example.  However, I'll keep your deadpan style
in mind in the future.

>Sheesh!!  Is there no sense of humor in this newsgroup?

Sure there is.  You're just not very funny.

Jim
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu)
Subject: Re: Inter-racial dating
Organization: Nynex Science and Technology
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 14:03:46 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.194135.25348@oakhill.sps.mot.com> rjchou@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Ri Jen Chou) writes:
>g9utxu@fnma.COM (Tanin Uthayanaka) writes:
>>I must say you got guts. I myself never thought about anything other than the 
>>opposite sex when in comes to relations (sexual and/or emotional). You know that 
>>by having thoughts about homosexuality/bisexuality you could easily become one. I'm 
>>not saying it is bad nor good. I'm just saying that such a move can change your whole 
>>perspective on life (having gay friends as references). 

I agree with Ri-Jen.  You can't become homosexual just by having thoughts
about it.  In fact, we were zapped at a workshop during homosexual awareness
at our dorm, to imagine ourselves to be homosexual, or to think homosexual
and it hasn't made me homosexual.  The purpose of the exercise was to see
and feel what homosexuals experience when society tells them to imagine
themselves as heterosexuals, or to act like heterosexuals.
>
>
>Hmm, that's interesting.  Just by having thoughts about  homosexuality/bi
>you could easily become one? How does this work? How about the other way around?
>Can I become straight by having heterosexual thoughts?  I think not.  I do agree
>that once you acknowledge and accept your feelings, instead of suppressing
>them and denying them, then you will have a whole new perspective on life.
>Life suddenly becomes a lot less stressful.
>-- 
>Ri-Jen Chou   		rjchou@decimator.sps.mot.com
>Motorola Austin / Eclectic Environs

  If it is indeed true that for you, that by having thoughts about homosexuality
  you could "easily" become one, then maybe you should do what Ri-Jen suggests,
  i.e. acknowledge and accept your feelings.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: ks4816@albnyvms.bitnet ("Qu'est-ce que vous a cherchez...le bien par le mal...-Enigma")
Subject: Re: On Languages and Asian Americans
Reply-To: ks4816@albnyvms.bitnet
Organization: University of NY at Albany
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 92 04:39:55 GMT

In article <1go32jINN1fc@agate.berkeley.edu>, bhchan@soda.berkeley.edu (Billy H. Chan) writes:
[stuff deleted]
>Which leads me to my main question.  To all the Asian Americans
>out there, how much do you value your native (no...Asian) 
>Language (ie, Chinese, Korean, Japanese, those spoken in India
>(I'm not sure how to spell them), etc.etc.etc)?

I value my native language a lot but I also value all of the other languages
that I've had the priviledge of learning. It helps a lot that I can pick up 
accents and rhythms quickly whenever I attempt a new language...so I never
really develop the intense dislike of a language that I've seen develop in some
of my friends.

>[stuff deleted]

>So I ask you, what will you want for your children?  In the growing
>interracial marriage scene, should we expect our children to learn
>3 or 4 different languages (Spanish/English/Chinese trilingual in the
>aforementioned poster's son's case).  (and lets keep this a friendly
>debate :)

I would like my children to be fluent in as many Asian dialects as possible but
in addition, I would definitely hope that they pick up one or two of the
romance languages. My personal preference is, of course, French (after all, it
is the language of the world!)...  8^)
I wouldn't go so far as to say that I would FORCE my children to learn french,
japanese, chinese (cantonese and mandarin), korean, etc. but I definitely
wouldn't be against encouraging interest in them. 

-JS 
  ************************************************************************
  *  		   		 |     	  "I am so       		 *
  *  Jenny Shum			 |	      afraid of 	       	 *
  *  University At Albany	 |                living	         *
  *  ks4816@albanyvms.bitnet	 |	             in oblivion"        *
  *  ks4816@rachel.albany.edu	 |		        -Anything Box    *
  *				 |				         *
  ************************************************************************
From: mirin@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Mirin Lew)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 20:53:02 GMT
Subject: Re: On Languages and Asian Americans
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Rosa, CA
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american

In soc.culture.asian.american, bhchan@soda.berkeley.edu (Billy H. Chan) writes:

>   From personal experience, I've known many ChineseAs who regret that
>   their parents didn't force them to learn Chinese (note, I didn't use
>   the word force by accident).  I've also known many who could care
>   less.  I myself right now am trying relearn the handful of Cantonese
>   I know.

You can count me as another person who regrets not learning more Chinese
when I was younger.  I came to the U.S. from Hong Kong when I was 7.  My
parents have always spoken Cantonese to us at home, and my mother even
tried to get us to continue our studies (we brought all our books too),  
but after awhile, between our lack of interest and her lack of time, she
just gave up.  I didn't really care until I got into college.  I did study
Cantonese for 3 quarters in college, but then I managed to forget most of
it again.  

>   So I ask you, what will you want for your children?  In the growing
>   interracial marriage scene, should we expect our children to learn
>   3 or 4 different languages (Spanish/English/Chinese trilingual in the
>   aforementioned poster's son's case).  (and lets keep this a friendly
>   debate :)

I would like my children to be able to speak Chinese, but it's highly
unlikely that I will be able to teach them.  I suppose I could try to convince
my parents to take care of them part of the time, but they may have other
ideas.  :-)  Aside from that, unless I marry someone who is fluent in
Chinese, I don't think my children have much of a chance.

As for whether interracial children should be expected to learn multiple
languages, I think the more they can learn, the better off they will be.
However, I've noticed that many non-Asians, especially Caucasians, don't
particular care much about their ethnic background when it comes to
language, although most Hispanics do.  

Mirin Lew
From: babar+@pitt.edu (Jonggu Moon)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: looking for asian jokes
Date: 14 Dec 92 14:20:18 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh


there are lots of other ethnic jokes, 
but I haven't heard more than 3 or 4 asian jokes.
I'm sure they must exist, just that people won't tell them
when I'm around.

Do any of you know any ? I don't care about their quality.

Please email me if you feel too embarassed to post them.

I don't care about "degrading our stereotype". You got a problem
with it, put it in the kill file.

- jon 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american