HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mchaffee@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Real Life?!?! HA!!)
Subject: Re: Car purchasing advice.
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 05:14:30 GMT

newlin@kraft.ecn.purdue.edu (John Newlin) writes:

>  I am looking at buying a slightly used Mustang.  A dealer here
>  in town has an '89 LX 5.0, 45,000 miles.  This car buying business 
>  is new to me so I need some advice.  The car has obviously been 
>  in at least one wreck, and they want $9000.  I talked him down to $7k.
>  Any help will be appreciated.

>  First question:  What are your opinions on buying a car that has
>		   been wrecked?  The drive train appears to be ok.

The drive train is not the major concern; I would have a qualified independent
mechanic have a look and make sure it looks sound.  Also, try a simple test
to determine whether or not the thing is straight:  Drive it through a puddle
in a straight line and see if you leave two or four wet tire tracks after the
puddle.  If there are four, it probably wasn't straightened properly, and I'd
stay away.

As an aside:  This may be taken as a stereotype, but I would stay away from any
5.0 Mustang that's been wrecked.  Given the number of these driven by (very)
stupid kids, it's not a big stretch to assume that if it was wrecked, chances
are the car was not well0treated in general.  Admittedly, the wreck could have
been 100% the fault of the other person, but I would be hesitant to take that
chance.  I would ask for maintenance records and have a mechanic (not the
dealer's, obviously) take a close look at the drivetrain, drive it, etc. and
get his opinion on the state of the car.  On that type of car, the chances that
it has been abused are unfortunately high.

>  Second question: When a dealer says, I can't go below a certain price
>		   and make a profit, is he lying?

More likely than not.  Given the number of horror stories you hear about deal-
ers whose stories change every five minutes, I think you can safely assume that
he's lying.  Besides, what constitutes a profit?  If he bought the car for 
$7000, then selling it for $7001 makes him a profit, but there's no way he's
going to sell a car at a $1.00 profit.  What he may mean is that the lowest
price he can offer is the amount that gives him the lowest acceptable profit.
Of course, he could just as easily as not be lying about that number too.

Good luck!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael T. Chaffee        | mchaffee@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu  |  ______    
                                                       |  \    /   HATE
"I chased a rainbow down a one-way street.  Dead end." |   \  /  is not a
     - S. P. McCall                                    |    \/  FAMILY VALUE
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: mlsa@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (MICHAEL LAUREN SHERMAN)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Emblems, names and meanings...
Date: 20 Dec 92 00:07:19 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

>Badges and identity are obviously very important. I feel sorry for BMW
>having to incorporate their traditional grill on all their cars - it
>nearly turns the 850 into a joke!
YOU HAVE TO BE JOKING BUT NO SMILEY RIGHT.  The 850i may be the best most
beautiful car ever made.  I lust after that car, I think it'd be the perfect
addition to my family's collection (a 320i, an L6 and a 735i) guess I'll have
to talk to my dad over winter break.  The Kidney Grill just makes it even more
distinctive.



>--
>    Thomas Beagle | thomas@datamark.co.nz           Work: 64 4 233 8186
>Datamark Intl Ltd | thomas@cavebbs.welly.gen.nz     Home: 64 4 499 3832
> Technical Writer | Yes, I do have long ears, a black nose, and a tail.
>
-- 
my name is mike and i'm a .sig-a-holic, i have been virtually .sig free for
ten days now, my life is so much clearer, i pledge to do my best to never
have a long .sig again.  i don't need one because i'm good enough, i'm smart
enough and god darnit, people like me.  ob info: mlsa@lehigh.edu, mike
sherman phone# 758-0207 disclaimer, we don't neeeed no steeenking disclaimer.
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Slartibartfast)
Subject: Re: Civic LX, Saturn SL1.. what else should I consider...
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 05:38:13 GMT
Keywords: pl. suggest choices...

In article <1992Dec12.004032.14013@leland.Stanford.EDU> underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
>In article <1992Dec11.232520.18845@tandem.com> norcott_bill@tandem.com
>(Bill Norcott) writes:
>>In article <1992Dec11.010613.12778@leland.Stanford.EDU>,
>>underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
>>> In that price range, the Honda Civic is the finest car available for that
>>> price, and on top of that, it is made in America.  Honda Civics and Accords
>>> are a symbol of American excellence in engineering and manufacturing.
>>By the same logic, a McDonald's Big Mac is a symbol of Japanese
>>excellence in cuisine because I can fly over to Tokyo and get one that
>>is made there.
>
>Ah.  Mr. Norcott is a comedian.
>
>The two comparisons aren't comparable.  I won't explain why;an
					 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

	Why don't you?  Because there isn't a difference, one is the product of
the US made in the Japan by Japanese workers, and the other is a product of 
Japanese engineering made in the US, mostly with Japanese parts, by US workers.

				Chintan Amin 





-- 
 Chintan Amin  The University of Illinois, Urbana Champaign  c-amin1@uiuc.edu
  "Public speaking is very easy!" <-- Quayle 10/88  ;-)
  "Unfortunately, the people of Louisiana are not racists" <-- Quayle, 10/12/90
NeXTMail Accepted  Go Illini *Holiday Bowl* Go Capitals Go Tarheels Go Cowboys 
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: bqueiser@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Brian J Queiser)
Subject: Re: FORD TAURUS taillight RIPOFF!
Organization: The Ohio State University
 <1992Dec15.220023.25483@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 22:21:20 GMT

Sorry to bring this up again, but I should say that the place I read
the financial advice for my post a few back was, I think, _The_Bottom_Line_, 
within the past year.

BTW, a few issues ago, the editors of this publication recommended
Red Line synthetic oil for cars.  They even gave the phone number.

Regards,

Brian

bqueiser@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am the engineer, I can choose K.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Department of Engineering Mechanics
Ohio State University
Columbus, OH
From: david.bonds@cutting.hou.tx.us (David Bonds) 
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: FORD TAURUS taillight
Date: 12 Dec 92 11:58:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Cutting Edge - Houston, TX - 713-466-1525
Reply-To: david.bonds@cutting.hou.tx.us (David Bonds) 

[article about Ford selling $131 plastic cover for taillight]
  >:   Has anyone found a way to get around this RIPOFF besides anchoring
  >: a piece of red cellophane over the hole?
  >
  >Hmm.  I didn't believe this at first but called my Ford dealer and found
  >out this to be TRUE!  I think if it were me and I didn't want to cough 
  >up the $, then a trip to Kmart is in order for some of their taillight
  >repair tape.  This is gonna be a great midnight theft item, kinda like
  >the mini-pickup tail lights...

Both of the foglamps in my SHO were broken by rocks (when the previous 
owner had the car).  I called Ford to see how much a reflector would be 
(everything else is in good condition) and they want $100.  Will only 
sell you the entire assembly - mounting hardware, frames, wiring, etc.
Basically, sounds like they're too cheap to carry individual items, just 
kits.  Sorta a modular approach to car repair.  Try junkyards, cheaper,
and better on the environment (if you're into the conservation thing).
Most car parts (especially no wear ones, like a taillight cover) are in 
decent shape, and you shouldn't be able to tell a difference from the 
original.  Might be hard to find one that fits the '92 model, it it's much
different from previous years (hard to tell just by looking), but no harder
then my foglamps (which I STILL haven't found a good source for).

- Dave Bonds 
- Internet : David.Bonds@cutting.hou.tx.us
---
 . KingQWK 2.00 .6 # 145 . CCITT - Can't Conceive Intelligent Thoughts Today 
           
----
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
| The Cutting Edge BBS (cutting.hou.tx.us)    A PCBoard 14.5a system  |
| Houston, Texas, USA    +1 713 466 1525          running uuPCB       |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: sylveste@ecs.umass.edu
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: >>>>Best undercover car
Date: 11 Dec 92 11:36:09 GMT

In article <1992Dec7.170833.13190@galileo.cc.rochester.edu>, mflt_cif@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Mat) writes:
> How about a 92 ZR1?  that was pretty scary to read about in the paper in my
> hometown....
> 
> The local police snagged that one in a drug bust and decided to keep the
> thing.  On a related note, the Florida state police are looking at getting
> three vectors and will rotate them around the state.  For those of you who
> don't know, perhaps the only thing capable of out running a vector would be
> a grand - prix car or that new jag if ti's in very good tune.  (discounting,
> of course, the Callaway Sledgehammer which is in Saudi Arabia...;-) )
> 
> 
> Mat



That would depend on who was driving. 



                                                  Mike Sylvester   Umass
                                                  sylveste@ecs.umass.edu
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: pacyga@rtsg.mot.com (Jim Pacyga)
Subject: Re: SHO Electrical Troubles
Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 19:01:01 GMT

In article <15902@auspex-gw.auspex.com> tpickett@auspex.com (Tom Pickett) writes:
>
>My SHO is having an interesting problem with the intermittant wipers.
>They are intermittant.  Some positions work sometimes, others don't,
>none of the intermittant positions work all of the time.  Electrical
>problems?
>
>My air conditioner has quit again.  this is the sixth time.
>
>
>

I had a similar problem with the intermittent wipers...Have you 
ever take the turn signal stalk apart?  What a trip!!!  The FORD
guys decided on a real great setup.  It has a an arm that travels
across a metal plate to vary resistance to tell the thing how
fast to cycle the wipers.  Needless to say this is an extremely 
delicate setup (just what you need for the automotive industry!!)

Anyway, that may be your problem, the cost of the module is about 52.00
and with labor is about 126.00 if you have a tilt steering wheel...

Jim Pacyga 

Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: pmahler@netcom.com (Paul Mahler)
Subject: Shareware program--lease vs. buy
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 04:57:19 GMT

A while back, there was a thread here asking about the
relative costs of leasing vs. buying vs. financing. If
anyone would like a copy, I have a DOS program that 
gives you the numbers.  

Send me mail and I can send you a copy.

-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Mahler                   internet: pmahler@netcom.com
Data Based Systems, Inc.
Database Systems Development
1800 Market St. #257          voice: 415.518.8459
San Francisco, CA 94102       

"I work for myself; there's no one else to blame it on." 
-------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: myhui@bnr.ca (Michael Hui)
Subject: Re: Williams F1
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 03:05:56 GMT

In article <1glmhaINNhbv@s-crim1.dl.ac.uk> mbahh@s-crim1.dl.ac.uk (A.H. Henry) writes:
>Will Hill be, if you'll excuse the pun, Bergered halfway through the season?

Meaning, Prost might invoke his #1 driver status and have Frank
Williams force Damen Hill to slow down and let Prost pass? Prost might
insist on having a superior car? I hope not, to both counts. This
current situation with Hill testing faster than Prost and by extension
being a driver who'll drive next year who has the fastest test time (I
had to be very careful with my prose there) is putting a lot more
excitement back into the 1993 F1 season.
-- 
Michael MY Hui  ~{~}  myhui@bnr.ca  Ottawa Canada
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: tvp53202@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Toby Vaughn Padfield)
Subject: Re: McLaren Drivers '93
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 03:48:58 GMT

fish@iastate.edu (Craig J Fischer) writes:

>I was wondering...since nobody seems to know what Senna is doing next year
>(including himself, it seems), what will McLaren do if he doesn't drive for
>them???

>I can't imagine that they'd run a one-car team, but what drivers are available?
>Most would be contracted for '93 by now, so might McLaren do as Williams and
>recruit their test driver?  If so, does anyone know who that is?? I know it 
>was Emmanule Pirro a few years ago, but he took another drive.  

>Is Martin Brundle busy yet?? Without getting into a debate over Brundle 
>himself, is there anyone of his potential that could drive for McLaren next
>year??
 

 I would say that the most qualified, non-returner would have to be Gabriele
 Tarquini. He was fairly quick this year, in teh highly under-developed Fond-
 metal GR02. I would love to see him get a good drive, like the McLaren.
 By the way, McLaren's test driver is Mark Blundell.

 TOBY...
From: aep@aber.ac.uk (Andrew Pagett)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Williams driver 1993
Summary: He announced it
Date: 14 Dec 92 14:59:48 GMT
Reply-To: aep@aber.ac.uk
Followup-To: rec.autos.sport
Organization: University of Wales, Aberystwyth. (Physics Dept.)


It was just announced on the news, local time midday that the second driver
for Williams next year would be Damon Hill. I suppose this was expected
but it is now finally confirmed (?)

Pag.....

 email to aep@aber.ac.uk          | This article in no way represents the   
 or       aep%aber@ukacrl         | views of anyone at my place of work, if
 or even  ...!mcsun!ukc!aber!aep  | it did we would all be in trouble.
      Hi, I'm a signature Virus :) Copy me into your sig to join in.
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: chrisp@regenmeister.Sun.COM (Chris Prael)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Prost x Hill (Was Re: Williams F1)
Date: 17 Dec 1992 19:19:07 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: regenmeister

From article <9212161848.AA10852@sumatra.dcs.gla.ac.uk>, by roberto@dcs.gla.ac.uk (roberto):
> Chris Prael (chrisp@regenmeister.Sun.COM) writes:
> 
> |The testing results that have been published, so far show that the
> |closest Prost has gotten to Hill's times is 0.6 seconds slower and the
> |numbers have more often been in the range of 1.0 to 1.6 seconds slower.
> |Those numbers say that today, Damon Hill can walk away from Allain Prost
> |the same way that Nigel Mansell walked away from Rico Patrese.

According to the latest issue of On Track, the first differential above
(0.6 seconds) is incorrect.  The correct differential for the Estoril
tests is 0.16 seconds.  Also, Prost and Hill tested on different days.
This makes it clear that Prost has closed the gap between him and Hill
and that he can get the times out of the active suspension.  That makes
Prost the favorite.

> I wish you were at least partially right. 
> If only Damon Hill makes Prost work hard for the championship ....
> 
> Even though I think this may be possible, I find it very unlikely to happen. 
> In F1, being fast does not guarantee anything. Given their experiences are 
> the two extremes, I don't think Hill has much chance. 
> 
> I believe Hill has a chance of getting a couple of pole positions and might 
> even win his first GP, but IMHO it is very unlikely that he will win 
> frequently. 

I still think that he may do pretty well at qualifying (unless Prost can
pursuade Team Willy to make sure that Hill's car is a real second), but
I fear that you are right about winning finishes.
> 
> If the williams team manages to be as dominant as this year, you may bet 
> that the 93 championship will be even more boring than this years'. 
> I desperately hope this doesn't happen!

All the indicators are that the 93 season will be a repeat of the '88,
'89, '90, and '92 seasons.  The only hope of any interest that I see is
Hill giving Prost a run for his money.  That seems less likely all the
time.  Sigh!

Chris Prael
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: wcarroll@encore.com (William Carroll)
Subject: John Berton was Re: Williams F1
Organization: Encore Computer Corporation
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 20:31:25 GMT

danjones@pyramid.COM (Dan Jones) writes:
>John Berton who used to do the 
>F1 reports for r.a.s.

Speaking of which, whatever happened to John? His race reports were
often the best recap of a race I saw. This season seemed to be missing
something without them.


----
William R. Carroll (Encore Computer, Ft. Lauderdale FL) wcarroll@encore.com

"We trained hard,  but it seemed that every time we were beginning to form
up into teams, we would be reorganized.  I was to learn later in life that
we tend to meet any new situation by reorganizing;  and a wonderful method
it can be for creating the illusion of progress while producing confusion,
inefficiency, and demoralization."	-Petronius Arbiter, 210 BC
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: rgolen@UMASSD.EDU
Subject: Re: Porsche trivia question
Reply-To: rgolen@UMASSD.EDU
Organization: UMASS DARTMOUTH, NO. DARTMOUTH, MA.
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 13:09:46 GMT

In article <1992Dec11.173406.9335@iscsvax.uni.edu>, pighetti2194@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:
>In article <1992Dec11.202515.6416@msc.cornell.edu>, tan@lynx.msc.cornell.edu.UUCP (David Tan,Box 219 Baker Lab,54810,2720402) writes:
>> Not sure whether this goes here or in r.a.vw... :)
>> 
>> Does anyone out there know what the Carrera and RSR designations mean?
>> Presumably the Carrera is named after the Carrera Panamericana, of
>> (among other things) buzzard bar fame, but what makes the Carrera model
>> different from the stock 911?  Similarly for RS (Rallye Sport?) and RSR.
>> If these aren't real sports cars (as opposed to, say, Mazda's idea of a
>> "pure sports car"), you have my apologies (and direct followups to r.a.)
>> 
>> Just wondering...
>> 
>> Thanks in advance,
>> 
>> Dave
>I believe that the carrera is the convertible, the targa is the t-top and then
>there is one more name given to just the hard top.
Carrera is the name given to certain high-performance models of the Porshce
line, ie: 356 Carrerra, 911 Carrerra, etc. The name is derived from the
class victories Porsche won at the Carrerra Panamericana in the early
fifties.

The convertables are referred to as CABRIOLETS!

The Targa gets its name from the TARGA FLORIO race run in Scicily
from 1914 to 1972 (?). It was similar to a road rally in that
cars circumnavigated the island (I believe a 40 mi course) after
being sent out in 1 minute intervals. The interestin thing about
this event that it did have some elements of rallying (racing
against the clock, not against other cars per-se) it was 
run with sports and prototype cars.

Ther RSR designation comes from the RS designation as well as the
R designation. In the late 60s Porsche produced the 911R, a
lightweight variant used primarily to compete in the Tour de
France and other similar events. The R stood for Racing.

The RS designation was part of the early (1972-74?) 911
Carrerra model series. The Carrerra was a model available
with the old duck-tail spoiler (which I like better than
the whale-tail) and then with the Whale-tale spoiler.
In a higher state of tune it was known as the RS or
RennenSport - I believe it means Road Sport (you 
European folks correct me on my German). The 
RSR designation was for the all out racing Carrerra
the RennenSport - Racing.

Ric Golen



>>
From: jacquier@gsbux1.uchicago.edu (Eric Jacquier )
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: French GP struck off!
Date: 18 Dec 92 22:59:10 GMT
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations


(Paul S. Winalski) writes:

>Unfortunately, there is no such exception in the law.  It says no TV broadcast
>of sporting events with tobacco advertising, period.  FISA just asked the
>French parliament to amend the law to allow broadcast of such events taking
>place outside France, but the parliament refused.  In fact, it is that refusal
>to amend the law that prompted the cancellation of the French GP.

Just a couple days and this might change.
Here is the news:
The French Senate has accepted an amendment "which would allow the French
GP to be run". The Assemblee is now preparing to vote on it. That was
the news on Friday 18, at noon (GMT).
Now, I don't know what they mean by what I have put between " ". Also,
they must hurry because  the legislative session ends on Sunday.

EJ
From: GR743@uacsc2.albany.edu (Greg Rickes)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: IMSA World Sports Cars S
Date: 15 Dec 92 15:43:11 GMT
Organization: University at Albany, Albany NY 12222

>Not only are the Shelby cars ONLY 3.3 ltire motors they are hidious at best.
>Another feebled, botched or what seems to be another, status quo, fiasco from
>SCCA. Does anyone beleive that the SCCA can actually do the right thing???
>
>Jim Sanchez.
>USAC F2000
>Race Director.
While I'm not about to defend SCCA management for its wisdom
on any number of issues, not the least of which might be
the whole Shelby CanAm scenario or their weakly supported
FF2000 series, few sanctioning bodies, USAC included, seem
immune from what turn out to be questionable business
decisions. How else could one explain USAC's loss of
nearly the entire championship car series to CART, the
demise of USAC's stock car division, or the vaporous
SABRE series. That USAC FF2000 thrives in its two
regional series is a tribute to the dedication of a
few individuals, and if they lose interest, get a better
offer, etc, those series could just as likely collapse
as thrive IMHO.
 
Greg Rickes
 
 
>
>In article <723870152.AA00000@aisbbs.com> Ric.Johnson@f4.n290.z1.aisbbs.com (Ric Johnson) writes:
>>
>>>[ On 12/01/92 rgolen wrote this to All ]<
>>
>>rr>these the "Z Cars".....Z as in ZZZZzzzzzzzzz snore! Normally aspirated
>>rr>V6s wow!!!, at least the SCCA Shelby CanAms run turbo motors!
>>
>>Sorry Ric, but the Shelby Can-Ams are normally aspirated Dodge 3.3
>>V-6s...
>Not only are the Shelby cars ONLY 3.3 ltire motors they are hidious at best.
>Another feebled, botched or what seems to be another, status quo, fiasco from
>SCCA. Does anyone beleive that the SCCA can actually do the right thing???
>
>Jim Sanchez.
>USAC F2000
>Race Director.
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: bob@ncube.com (Bob Kehoe)
Subject: Wanna Drive Nurburgring?
Organization: nCUBE Computers, Beaverton, Oregon, U.S.A.
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 18:11:40 GMT

...received this news from BMW last night...

For 1993, BMW of North America is offering a
special opportunity for purchasers of the M5
sport sedan.  Each purchaser of a 1993 M5 will
receive a free trip to Germany to visit the
production facilities of BMW's in-house high
performance subsidiary, BMW Motorsport GmbH.
In addition, he or she will be able to parti-
cipate in BMW's high performance driver
training program, which includes driving an
M5 on the famous 14.2 mile racing circuit,
the Nurburgring.

Well...it IS Christmas! :-)

-cball-