HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ulick@bernini.helios.nd.edu (Ulick Stafford)
Subject: Re: The story of the Scottish flag
Organization: OUC, University of Notre Dame
Distribution: sqnt
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 19:33:24 GMT

In article <1992Dec10.174430.4305@sequent.com> stm@sequent.com (Scott "Worf" MacQuarrie) writes:
>katherim@fraser.sfu.ca (Katherine Merle Mason) writes:
>
>>mmh@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach) writes:
>
>>>Actually, Cromwell used arms consisting of the St.George's
>>>crooss for England quartered with the St.Andrew's saltire for
>>>Scotland, and a harp (the "St.Patrick's saltire was invented in
>>>1801) for Ireland (presumably he regarded Wales as coming under
>>>England), and it looks quite nice (it's on the coinage issued
>>>under him, and his Great Seal).
>
>>>Matthew Huntbach
>
>>How can you use "quite nice" and "Cromwell" in the same sentence.
>
>Unless you include the phrase "Thank god he's dead". 
>
>>Katherine Merle Mason
>>Ne Oublie... 

Many not nice rulers had really nice emblems, because they were into it, like
the Nazis or Mussolini.  Re Cromwell I still remember the Ladybird book on
King and Queen's of England giving a glowing report on Oliver the Bastard and
ending it with the worlds greatest understatment - theat Cromwell was well
loved by all, except the Irish.  In Ireland the name is synonimous with
anti-christ.  What is that Pogues song? 'God damn you Oliver Cromwell, you
have raped our Motherland, I hope you burn in hell etc.  But perhaps being 
from Wexford, and having a had a roommate in College from Dundalk, I have
a worse than normal attitude to him.  Hell it was over 300 years ago, and it's
not like he was necessarily the last of his type.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 
+ 'There was a  master come unto the earth, + Ulick Stafford, PP-ASEL       +
+    born in the holy land of Indiana,      + Dept of Chemical Engineering, +
+ in the mystical hills east of Fort Wayne'.+ Notre Dame, IN 46556          +
+      B'fhearr liom bheith ag eitilt.      +    ulick@bach.helios.nd.edu   +
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Xref: sparky soc.culture.british:17517 soc.culture.celtic:8151
From: alisonjw@spider.co.uk (Alison J Wyld)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: The Scottish National Anthem (was Re: The story of the Scottish flag)
Date: 15 Dec 92 12:23:07 GMT
Organization: Spider Systems Limited, Edinburgh, UK.

Has anyone ever suggested the 23rd Psalm to Crimmond ? Its well known,
has an easy tune and would be acceptable to Jews and Muslims as well
as Christians, which must cover the majority of the population.  The
only downer I can think of is its association with funerals.

Comments ?

Alison.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: gerard@caliban.soest.hawaii.edu (Gerard Fryer)
Subject: Re: A.A. Milne
Organization: Scum Of the Earth and Senile Tenured
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 01:37:20 GMT

In article <singer-151292095116@dsinger.apple.com>, singer@apple.com (Dave Singer) writes:
|> In article <92341.001912BONEMAN@PURCCVM.BITNET>, BONEMAN@PURCCVM.BITNET
|> wrote:
|> > 
|> > I have a friend who read recently that A.A. Milne's son, (yes, THE Christopher
|> > Robin) owned a bookstore in Dartmouth, Devonshire England. I was wondering if 
|> > he was still alive and if anyone knew of a mailing address for him. 
|> > 
|> > Boneman@Purccvm.bitnet
|> 
|> I can get you close. He used to own Harbor Books in Dartmouth, but sold it
|> a few years ago. He lives in Stoke Fleming, and I suspect that he is well
|> enough known in a small enough town that that would get a letter there.
|> He's
|> now in maybe his 70s and my sources say that he doesn't seem so well these
|> days.
|> 
|> Close enough?

Is it true that C.R. Milne hated his Dad?  The story goes that, as a
career diplomat, C.R. was introduced to A.A. at a cocktail party in
Hong Kong. The hostess hadn't twigged the fact that they had the same
last name. Instead of shaking hands C.R. punched the old man on the
conk and said "That's for calling me Christopher Robin and telling
everyone about it."  I can't remember where I heard the story.  Is it
true?
-- 
Gerard Fryer                                  |  g.fryer@soest.hawaii.edu
Department of Geology & Geophysics            |
School of Ocean & Earth Science & Technology  | <-punctuate that if you can
University of Hawaii at Manoa                 |
Honolulu, HI 96822-2285                       |
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: ewadams@netcom.com (Ernest Adams)
Subject: Re: game (no prizes)
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 21:42:37 GMT

Speaking as a frequent visitor to Britain, I'd say the requirements
test for British citizenship should go something like this:

1) Who knocked Swansea City out of the FA Cup in 1967?
2) State, concisely and briefly, the British Constitution.
3) Describe the appropriate condiments for fish & chips. Defend your choice.
4) Explain the difference between Rugby Union and Rugby League.
   Demonstrate, using examples where necessary, why this is so important.
5) Play a game of Mornington Crescent. Win the game on the 23rd move.
6) Defend the British Monarchy, using the attitudes and accent of a
   penniless citizen of a Commonwealth nation such as Jamaica.
7) Which is the A1(M) and which is the M1? Why?
8) Justify how a nation which produced Shakespeare and Yeats could
   produce Benny Hill. Believe your answer without your head exploding.
9) What precisely is Wales? How did it get that way?
10) Does your fear of rabies exceed your fear of AIDS, in spite of the
    fact that one is a statistical irrelevancy and one a worldwide
    pandemic? If not, why not?

Xref: sparky soc.culture.british:17746 soc.culture.celtic:8281
Organization: Arizona State University
Date: Thursday, 17 Dec 1992 22:19:43 MST
From: Dan Wilson <ATDYW@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: The story of the Scottish flag
 <1992Dec14.161941.28389@news.clarkson.edu>

And let's not forget Robert de Brus ==> Robert Bruce ==> Robert I.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: hallam@zeus02.desy.de (Phill Hallam-Baker)
Subject: Re: Charles & Di split?
Reply-To: Hallam@zeus02.desy.de
Organization: Deutsches Elektronen Synchrotron, Experiment ZEUS bei HERA
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 08:20:49 GMT

In article <1992Dec10.225418.24141@nuscc.nus.sg>, hiscrp@nuscc.nus.sg (C R
Pennell) writes:

|>esh2@po.CWRU.Edu (Evelyn S. Hlabse) writes:
|>: 
|>: Princess Diana is the daughter of the Earl Spencer.  The
|>: Spencer family is at least if not older than the present
|>: royal family. 
|>
|>
|>	And so is mine and so is yours and so is any man's or woman's
|> -  we all go back to Lucy or her relatives.

This is not strictly true. The Royal family as we all know are exalted beings
who live on a higher plane. This is one reason why their house is in the flight
path of Heathrow.

In olden days the royal family used to have to get down to the bouncy business
same as the plebs. Some of them really put a jolly decent effort into it, Henry
the VIII for example was never the sort to pass up the change of rogering a
servin' wench.

The the dreary German crew came in and Queen Vicky set up shop. Since she was
not to keen on lying back and thinking of Knaresborough she had the finest minds
of the age of invention think up a solution. After a few false starts which
produced disparate by-products including the mangle, the "missionary size"
canibals cooking pot and the rotary egg wisk a solution was found. Although it
is not possible to give precise details of the mechanism under the Official
Secrets act, it is possible to reveal that the Royal family now reproduce
a-sexualy by binary cell division.

The modern system is of course much more sophisticated and releves the modern
monarchy of many of the tiresome functions of human existence. Is it possible
for example to conceive of a monarch (besides of course the already established
fact that they do not conceive) which was subject to the calls of nature as if
they were a mere commoner? Of course it is not. For this very reason upon
succession to the throne the new monarch is given a sophisticated operation that
would make the collostomy bag users of the nation furious to hear about the
reasons why it is with-held from them.


--
Phill Hallam-Baker
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: jac54@cas.org ()
Subject: Binary fission, was Re: Charles & Di split?
Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service, Columbus, Ohio
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 12:10:27 GMT

In article <Bz8puq.9rI@dscomsa.desy.de> Hallam@zeus02.desy.de writes:
>
>The the dreary German crew came in and Queen Vicky set up shop. Since she was
>not to keen on lying back and thinking of Knaresborough she had the finest minds
>of the age of invention think up a solution. After a few false starts...
>... it is possible to reveal that the Royal family now reproduce
>a-sexualy by binary cell division.
>

	This is called "parthenogenesis" from the ancient Greek for
	"degree in Arcitecture".  A former colleague demonstrated that
	this was the case for sea anemones he picked up whilst wandering
	about the low-water mark at St. Andrews after the pubs had shut.

	There is evidently greater sophistication in the Saxe-Coburg
	mechanism.  The basic mechanism would lead to an unbroken line
	of Queen Victorias.

	Alec.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: sue@netcom.com (Sue Miller)
Subject: Re: Robertson's Golly Badges.
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 23:53:15 GMT

In article <Bz3G2H.5Lp@sunlab1.bath.ac.uk> ccsdhd@sunlab1.bath.ac.uk (Dennis Davis) writes:
>In the referenced article, tmo@harry.engin.umich.edu (Tanya M Ollick) writes:
>>What's a Robertson's Golly badge?
>
>Robertson's are a UK manufacturer of jam/marmalade.  I suspect that
>their product may be referred to as jelly in the States.  Their jars of

No, it is referred to as jam or marmalade, as the case may be.  Jelly
in the US is made from strained fruit juice.  Very similar to UK jelly
(aka US jello) but less firm and hence spreadable.

>jam had, and still have, a small pictograph or picture of a golliwog
>(**) on the label.  You saved up so many of these and sent them off to
>the manufacturer.  In return you received a small enamelled metal badge
>of a golliwog doing something like riding a bicycle, playing tennis
>etc.  I think you used to send off ten pictures, now you send off three
>and a cheque for a small amount.  These badges have been produced since
>1928.  Currently there are 21 different designs available.  Guess which
>marmalade jar I was reading at breakfast time this morning ?

The jars made for purchase in the US do not have the offers for golly
brooches.  And it is just as well.  No apologies to anyone here who may
feel that the US is just being a joy-killer in this regard.  

>I remember collecting a few of these as a child.  Now I'm old and
>cynical I think that the insistence of small children is a great way of
>ensuring brand loyalty.
>
>(**) A golliwog is a soft child's toy, something like a teddy bear.
>     Later, and inferior, toys on this theme would include gruesome
>     things like Cindy dolls.  Golliwogs are normally clothed and have
>     black faces and frizzy hair.  As a sacrifice to the altar of
>     Political Correctness "Golliwog Badges" are now referred to as
>     "Golly Badges".  Similar things have happened to the "Noddy" books of
>     Enid Blyton.  They have been rewritten and the naughty golliwogs
>     have been removed.  Some might think our children's heritage is
>     being pasteurised.

Your children's heritage is being changed to suit the times in which
they live.  There is nothing wrong with that.  BTW if you look up
"golliwog" in a dictionary, you might be mildly surprised at how the
definition reads.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.british:17752 soc.culture.celtic:8286
From: mmh@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: The story of the Scottish flag
Date: 18 Dec 92 09:54:57 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept, QMW, University of London, UK.

In article <BzFBq6.BM5@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib) writes:
>What's that flag you see often flying over Windsor
>Castle that has the three red English lions in two
>quarters and the Irish Harp in at least one quarter?

The personal flag of the UK Monarch. The other quarter is the
lion of Scotland. In Scotland there is an alternative version
in which Scotland takes precedence over England (the Scottish
arms in two quarters and the English in one). These arms have
changed over the centuries. The present form was established in
1837 when Queen Victoria came to the throne, but due to the
different succession laws in Germany, her uncle became King of
Hanover. From 1714 to 1837 the Hanover arms formed part of the
British monarch's flag as he was also ruler of Hanover.

>Then there's Henry V's coat of arms - the lions on
>two quarters and gold fleur-de-lis on blue on the
>other two quarters?
>
The fleur-de-lis on blue are the arms of France, and reflect
the fact that Henry V claimed to be rightful King of France. In
fact France took precedence over England. Right up till 1806
the Kings of England claimed also to be Kings of France, used
the title "King of France" in official documentation (you will
find it on British coins for instance), and quartered the
French arms.

Matthew Huntbach
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: gdb15@grebe.cl.cam.ac.uk (Guy Barry)
Subject: Re: game (no prizes)
Reply-To: gdb15@cl.cam.ac.uk
Organization: U of Cambridge Computer Lab, UK
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 00:22:50 GMT

In article <1992Dec12.214237.4923@netcom.com> ewadams@netcom.com (Ernest Adams) writes:

>1) Who knocked Swansea City out of the FA Cup in 1967?

Arsenal.  (I don't know anything about football, but the answer is
always Arsenal.)

>2) State, concisely and briefly, the British Constitution.

None.  [That was an easy one!]

>3) Describe the appropriate condiments for fish & chips. Defend your choice.

For the connoisseur, I recommend a combination of freshly dried sea salt
and distilled Castrol GTX.

>4) Explain the difference between Rugby Union and Rugby League.
>   Demonstrate, using examples where necessary, why this is so important.

Rugby Union is a honourable game played for the sheer joy of it by
good decent honest chappies from Eton and Harrow; Rugby League
is an evil game played for base commercial motives by oiks from
places like Wigan (which we all know doesn't really exist).

>5) Play a game of Mornington Crescent. Win the game on the 23rd move.

This is of course a trick question.  It is not possible to win a game
of Mornington Crescent when the move number is congruent to 2 mod 7
(except when Worsthorne's bend is in operation, but clearly the
question does not refer to this arcane option).  For the proof see
Harcourt's 1957 thesis, "Applications of Number Theory to some
Well-Known Parlour Games", pp. 163-178.

>6) Defend the British Monarchy, using the attitudes and accent of a
>   penniless citizen of a Commonwealth nation such as Jamaica.

I wouldn't stoop so low.

>7) Which is the A1(M) and which is the M1? Why?

Why not?

>8) Justify how a nation which produced Shakespeare and Yeats could
>   produce Benny Hill. Believe your answer without your head exploding.

Benny Hill is of course the finest exponent of British demotic culture
since Shakespeare, so your question is irrelevant.

>9) What precisely is Wales? How did it get that way?

You'll have to ask the Welsh, unfortunately.

>10) Does your fear of rabies exceed your fear of AIDS, in spite of the
>    fact that one is a statistical irrelevancy and one a worldwide
>    pandemic? If not, why not?

What precisely is AIDS?


--
Guy Barry, University of Cambridge | Phone: +44 (0)223 334757 
Computer Laboratory                | Fax: +44 (0)223 334678
New Museums Site, Pembroke Street  | JANET: Guy.Barry@uk.ac.cam.cl 
Cambridge CB2 3QG, England, UK     | Internet: Guy.Barry@cl.cam.ac.uk 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: streater@unixhub.SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Tim Streater)
Subject: Re: soc.culture.british FAQ [was Re: Time to elect a monarch?]
Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 18:29:30 GMT

In article <1992Dec12.151738.18297@infodev.cam.ac.uk> gdb15@cl.cam.ac.uk writes:
>
>Notice also the use of "one" for "I", a habit only usually observed in
>the royals themselves.
>
Stuff and nonsense. They merely overdo it, that's all.

tin.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: dj@ekcolor.ssd.kodak.com (Dave Jones)
Subject: Re: SECRET PURPOSE OF FALKLANDS WAR
Organization: Vonnegut Tent Rentals, Inc.
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 18:35:36 GMT

Mr. McElwaine, how are you?  Fresh from all your lunatic fringe postings
in sci.space and who knows where else ?  Fortunately my newsreader has
the ability to kill all messages by an author in all groups, so I won't
be hearing from you again anywhere.  It will indeed be a relief.

By the way I prefer your own original work: I find the liberal USE of
CAPITAL LETTERS to be so refreshing.

--
||------------------------------------------------------------------------
||Dave Jones (dj@ekcolor.ssd.kodak.com)|Eastman Kodak Co. Rochester, NY  |
From: chorley@vms.ocom.okstate.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Nominate President of Britain
Date: 18 Dec 92 19:40:11 GMT
Article-I.D.: vms.1992Dec18.134011.1
Organization: OSU College of Osteopathic Medicine

In article <1992Dec17.234525.1332@nuscc.nus.sg>, hiscrp@nuscc.nus.sg (C R Pennell) writes:
> martin.baines@uk.sun.com (Martin Baines - Sun UK - SE Manager Cambridge)
> makes the following proposals for President
> 
>  : 
> : John Mortimer
> : Tony Benn
> : Norman Tebbitt
> : Ken Livingstone
> : Richard Branson
> : John Harvey Jones
> : Brian Redhead
> : Sir Robin Day
> : 
> : Is that a catholic enough list?
> 
> 	No, they're all men. Julie Burchill for Pres.
> 
> 
> Richard Pennell
> History NUS
No:
We need Tim Brooke-Taylor ( a goodie monarch)
	Malcolm Muggeridge (is he dead yet, even better)
	David Hatch (better royal scripts)
	Clive Sinclair (electronic crowns that don't work quite right)
        Paddy Feeny (we need a monarch who can say Wigan! like Eddie Waring)
	Eric Idle (we need an Idle monarch)
	etc. ad nauseam.

DNC.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: dwilkins@maths.tcd.ie (David Wilkins)
Subject: Re: An ENGLISH monarch??
Organization: Dept. of Maths, Trinity College, Dublin, Ireland.
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 13:04:11 GMT

In article <18DEC92.11034381.0099@VM1.MCGILL.CA> CZ94@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA (CZ94000) writes:
>This thread seems to be using an odd definition of "English".
>Does anyone really think of the present Queen as German, merely
>because she's descended from Prince Albert (or was this a reference
>to George I)?

Half-Scottish (from her mother), half-German (from her father), with a small
proportion of Danish blood.

Take a look at the line of descent from James I and Anne of Denmark.
Practically everybody in this line of descent married a German
prince or princess.  The sole exception that I can think of offhand
is the marriage of Edward VII to Princess Alexandra of Denmark
(the present Queen's great grandmother), and I dare say that
she would have had plenty of German blood in her.

By custom, members of the royal family were expected to marry
persons of royal blood who were also Protestants.  The Holy
Roman Empire had a virtual monopoly of such persons.

DRW
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: jackson@soldev.tti.com (Dick Jackson)
Subject: Re: Time to elect a monarch?
Organization: Transaction Technology Inc.
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 01:30:49 GMT

Paul Moloney writes:
>
>I take it back. He's not Henry Root - he's Roger Irrelevant.

He's not Irrelevant, he's a hippotamus! (Flanders or Swann I think).

Dick Jackson
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,soc.culture.celtic
From: walker@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Graham Walker, 227 West Old Main,268-3847,)
Subject: Re: The dates 1603, 1688, and 1707.
Organization: Clarkson University
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 16:07:34 GMT

From article <1gloqjINNsu0@network.ucsd.edu>, by fledgist@weber.ucsd.edu (Fragano Ledgister):
> But it wasn't a united kingdom, it was a union of two separate
> kingdoms. The kingdoms weren't united until the Act of Union of
> 1707 (excepting the period of the Commonwealth and Protectorate,
> when they were a unified republic.).
> 
Why is 1603 called the Union of the Crowns?

							GW

Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: henry@trilithon.mpk.ca.us (Henry McGilton)
Subject: Re: Divided by a common language - pecker.
Organization: Trilithon Software
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 03:53:16 GMT

    *  In article <1fj47tINNb5l@morrow.stanford.edu> mossop@pangea.Stanford.EDU  
(Antony Mossop) writes:
    *  >pecker can generally be used to mean nose without too much laughter

And in Miranda Kenrick's book ``Gems of Japanised English'', she
metions people walking around wearing shirts with the inscription
``Green Bay Peckers'' written across them.

	........  Henry
Xref: sparky soc.culture.british:17641 soc.culture.celtic:8231 alt.bbs.internet:4746 soc.culture.europe:10516 uk.telecom:268
From: ke94002@black.ox.ac.uk (Daniel J Mitchell)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,soc.culture.celtic,uk.net,alt.bbs.internet,soc.culture.europe,uk.telecom
Subject: Re: The UK Internet list
Date: 16 Dec 92 19:38:48 GMT
Organization: Oxford University Computing Service, 13 Banbury Rd, Oxford, U
Originator: ke94002@black

In article <1992Dec14.191959.10645@rdg.dec.com> cockburn@edieng.enet.dec.com (Craig Cockburn) writes:
>CIX:
>
> ------- Forwarded mail received on 28-Jul-1992 at 13:52:13 -------
>We offer 3 services really, Electronic Mail / Usenet access, Online
>conferencing and a database of Files.

 Since then, they've added ftp and telnet access; no extra charges past those 
for standard use.

--
Daniel Mitchell == ke94002@ox.ac.uk == bi furry juggler
From: esh2@po.CWRU.Edu (Evelyn S. Hlabse)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Tell me about crackers
Date: 15 Dec 1992 15:40:48 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: esh2@po.CWRU.Edu (Evelyn S. Hlabse)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, suplick@convex.com (Jean Suplick) says:

>Hope this is the right group for this question...
>
>Could someone tell me about the custom of having "crackers" after 
>Christmas dinner?

	I don't know where the custom came from.  I'm sure
	someone else will know.

What typically is found in a cracker?

	Always a silly hat and a small toy.  

 When did the custom begin?  What are its origins?

	No idea but I'd love to know.

Is it a widespread custom?

	Yes.  I'm from the Orkneys and they have them up there too.

Do people make their own crackers?  Any tips on how to put a >crack< into 
>a homemade cracker?

	I've never known anyone to do so but I don't see why not and
	I have no idea how to put the crack in the cracker.
>
>And while I'm at it, what's this custom of wearing silly paper hats at
>during the Christmas festivities? 

	The hats come out of the crackers.

What's in a Christmas pudding? 

	Same kind of stuff that goes into a fruit cake.

 Anyone have a good recipe?
>
	I have a couple of recipes at home.  It is a little late
	for this year. They improve with age and a hard sauce.

>Happy holidays!  ;-)
>
>Jean
>suplick@convex.com
>
>

This isn't all that helpful I know but you have a little more information now.
Happy Christmas.

	
-- 

Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: ahall@library1.library.carleton.ca (Alison Hall)
Subject: Re: More silly songs.
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 15:43:12 GMT

Hark the herald angels sing
Mrs Simpson stole our king

Sorry, can't remember if there is any more....

Alison_Hall@carleton.ca