HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: nlu@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: Ripken wins Gold Glove!!!!!
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 19:12:27 GMT

In article <92310.073225KRB104@psuvm.psu.edu> KRB104@psuvm.psu.edu writes:
>
>  The Baltimore Sun reports this morning that Cal Ripken won his second
>consecutive Gold Glove, and will have a press conference today to announce.
>It is the 50th Gold Glove in franchise history, high in the American League.
>The Sun reports that Brady Anderson and Mike Deveaureux did not win a gold
>Glove (a travesty in my opinion, at least one  of them should have this season)

Well, IMO, the way that the Gold Glove is set up, there are always going to
be travesties...  For example, the Xth Gold Glove won by Ozzie Smith last
season (not this season, where I would give it to him).

===============================================================================
GO CALIFORNIA ANGELS!
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)
From: jacor@camelot.bradley.edu (James Corbett)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: You thought Zim cursed the Rockies.....
Date: 5 Nov 92 03:00:13 GMT
Article-I.D.: camelot.jacor.720932413
Distribution: rec.sport.baseball
Organization: Bradley University


You guys thought having Zimmer as a coach has cursed the Rockies, just wait...

In the Nov. 4 sports section of the Chicago Trib has an article about all
the ex-Cub personel they have hired. Here is a list:

Don Zimmer as dugout coach
Dick Balderson (former V.P. of scouting and player development) to run the
	minor-league operations
Peter Durso (traveling secretary) as, I assume, traveling secretary
Dave Cilladi (assistant trainer) as head trainer

and the Rockies have set up a deal to pool players for a team in the 
Arizona Rookie League.

As Joey Reaves says in the beginning of his article:         

	Maybe it's the thin air in Denver.  Or maybe the baseball
	standings haven't been published in the Mountain time zone
	for a couple of generations.

	But, for some reason, the folks putting together the expansion
	Colorado Rockies appear to want to be the Cubs of the West.

       _________  ___      ______   ______  ______
           /     /   |    /        /     / /     /   |  
          /     /____|   /        /     / /_____/    | jacor@camelot.bradley.edu
         /     /     |  /        /     / /      \    |                    
  \_____/     /      | /______  /_____/ /        \   |
Date: Monday, 9 Nov 1992 12:19:13 EST
From: <RVESTERM@vma.cc.nd.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: a morbid thought.

does anybody have the stats on how many confirmed kills ted williams
et al had in world war ii?

i wonder who the all-time major league leader in confirmed kills is.


bob vesterman.

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: "mike walker" <mike.walker@canrem.com>
Subject: toronto fans
Reply-To: "mike walker" <mike.walker@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: rec
Date: 11 Nov 92 01:24:06 EST


In message-ID: <2AF41BC2.215C@telly.on.ca> on the Subject: Toronto Fans
evan@telly.on.ca (Evan Leibovitch) writes:
EL>In article <farenebt.720215354@craft.camp.clarkson.edu>
EL> farenebt@craft.camp.clarkson.edu (Bri Farenell ("Droopy")) writes:

EL>In other cities, when the team is losing, fans stay away.
EL>In Toronto, when the team is losing, the seats are filled anyway.
EL>Whether these seats are filled with fans is a different story.

How do you explain Toronto's (so-called) football team, tha Argos?
Last year the won the CFL and sold out SkyDome repeatedly (well,
several times, anyway). This year they're last in the division, and
attendance is pitiful---Toronto fans staying away from a loser in
drives, no? The Argos also can't seem to hold a season ticket base,
despite all those fat cat corps being here in the fall as well as the
summer??? . . . . Mike
---
  DeLuxe 1.12 #165  Young gorillas are friendly, but they soon learn.
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
From: demers@cs.ucsd.edu (David DeMers)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: The NL Sched
Date: 10 Nov 92 00:32:48 GMT
Article-I.D.: sdcc12.40798
Distribution: usa
Organization: CSE Dept., UC San Diego


In article <1992Nov9.173335.10786@data-io.com>, dietz@parody.Data-IO.COM (Kent Dietz) writes:
|> Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't the main complaint about realignment
|>  from Chicago Tribune folks that they did not want to play more games on
|> the West Coast?

...

Ah, but with realignment, the NL was going to go to the 20-6 schedule
rather than the 13-12.  This would give the Cubs 10 games at each
of LA, San Diego & SF, not to mention Denver, er, Colorado.

Now they will have 6 at each with the balance sched.

...
-- 
Dave DeMers			 ddemers@UCSD   demers@cs.ucsd.edu
Computer Science & Engineering	C-014		demers%cs@ucsd.bitnet
UC San Diego					...!ucsd!cs!demers
La Jolla, CA 92093-0114	(619) 534-0688, or -8187, FAX: (619) 534-7029
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: mattb@ssc-vax (Matt Baney)
Subject: Re: Ripken wins Gold Glove!!!!!
Keywords: 
   That pretty much sums it up!!  It doesn't really have anything to do 
   with a players performance this year?
   DOn't we all!!!!
Reply-To: mattb@ssc-vax.boeing.com (Matt Baney)
Organization: Boeing Aerospace & Electronics
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 06:06:17 GMT

VIZQUEL  1099 208 389 6  91  4.89  .990



-- 
|  Matt Baney         | Boeing Defense and Space Division    |
|  -----------------  |   Knowledge Systems Group            |
| "I can't tolerate   | UUCP:        ..!bcstec!ssc-vax!mattb |        
| intolerant people!" | Internet:   mattb@ssc-vax.boeing.com |
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: jplee@zeus.calpoly.edu (Jason Lee)
Subject: Re: Greatest moments in baseball history
Organization: California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1992 04:13:17 GMT

In article <1992Nov8.174245.28862@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> doli@troi.cc.rochester.edu (David Oliver) writes:
>
>To keep the winter going I'm going to post a new thread for discussion.
>(In a similar vein to "Favorite Players of my Youth" and "Most unbreakable
>records)  Here is my short list of greatest moments in baseball history
>(use whatever interprestation you want)
>
>This list is FAR from comprehensive and certainly could be revised (I'm
>coming up with these off the top of my head, kinda :-)  Anyway what does 
>anybody else want to add.  By the way here are two personal favorites
>
>1987, 1991 Twins are World Champs!!!!
>
>-David Oliver (doli@troi.cc.rochester.edu)

October 1986.  Ray Knight on second, Bob Stanley on the mound, Mookie
Wilson at the plate, and Bill Buckner instead of Dave Stapleton at first
base.  A little dribbler up the line, through the legs of the much
maligned Buckner, and into baseball lore for all time.  Knight scores.
Mets win.  Never in my life will I ever forget this little ground ball
that somehow eluded Buckner.  That was baseball.  After that game, there
was absolutely nothing that could stop the Mets from winning the World
Championship, not even divine intervention.  When you come back like
that, nothing can stop you (Exception to the rule:  See Atlanta 1992).

JLee

-- 
Jason Lee
email:  jplee@poseidon.calpoly.edu
GO ROCKIES 1993
Don Baylor for President!!!
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: yankees@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu (Kenneth M Gelfand)
Subject: Yankees protected list
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: The Johns Hopkins University - HCF
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 18:37:00 GMT


According to the NY Times, here are the players the Yankees have
supposedly protected:

	Don Mattingly	
	Pat Kelly
	JT Snow
	Melido Perez
	Bob Wickman
	Sam Millitello
	Rich Monteleone
	Sterling Hitchcock
	Mark Hutton
	Paul O'Neill
	Bernie Williams
	Gerald Williams
	Carl Everett

The last two spots are up for grabs between these guys:

	Danny Tartabull
	Charlie Hayes
	Randy Velarde
	Brad Ausmus
	Steve Farr
	Russ Springer
	Russ Davis

	The Times is also reporting that Tartabull's agent was told that
he was protected.  In other news, Barry Bonds told WABC radio that he would
"love to play for the Yankees." May be a negotiating ploy, but one can hope.


							Kenny G

The three Yankees taken through the draft: 
   Kevin Maas, Mike Stanley, Jim Leyritz (still praying)
From: v085f2wd@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Theodore J Kury)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Greatest moments in baseball history
Date: 9 Nov 92 01:24:00 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1djvd3INNbqf@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>, 
ST402747@brownvm.brown.edu (blomberg cepeda) writes...
>Mmmmm. Maybe we should distinguish between "greatest" and "most perfect"
>moments

I don't think so. The original author stated that he was leaving the
definition of "greatest" up in the air on purpose.

>    For "greatest", in its effect on people, its continuance in popular memory,
>its ability to still inspire great literature, there is only once choice:
>October 3, 1951, Polo Grounds, W. 157th St. & St. Nicholas Ave., bottom of the
>ninth, two on, one out, pitch by Branca, swing by Thomson. If you haven't read
>"Pafko at the Wall" in the October Harper's, you have no excuse.

Your definition, and a good one. However I define greatest as the way a moment
makes me feel. While I'm usually not that demonstrative at sporting
events, when Distefano and Prince got Yelding at the plate to save the game
(admittedly a meaningless one), I jumped out of my seat and yelled my fool
head off. I'm sure I would've done the same thing with "The Shot", but Prince,
Yelding, and Distefano get my vote for the greatest moment (for me) in 
baseball history.

Ted
v085f2wd@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: eebonar@sn01.sncc.lsu.edu (Dave Bonar)
Subject: Re: The value of speed (was Re: bonds in atlanta in 1993)
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4   
Reply-To: eebonar@sn01.sncc.lsu.edu
Organization: News and Views from LSU
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 20:57:59 GMT
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-18171]: sn01.sncc.lsu.edu

In article <1992Nov5.192818.24855@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>, nlu@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes...
>In article <1992Nov5.191105.4998@cs.tulane.edu> eebonar@sn01.sncc.lsu.edu writes:
>>
>>	A zeroth approximation of this is to turn certain singles into doubles
>>and others into outs and then refigure batting average, slugging and on base
>>percentage.
>>
>>	This means Nixon was effectively a .254/.313/.397 hitter.  Hardly
>>an effective leadoff man and worthless when compared to Blauser's .262/.354/
>>458.
>>
>>(btw, I realzie that this method has loads of problems.  It does give a 
>>reasonable measure in terms that are easy to compare with other players)
> 
>Since stolen bases don't move other runners, if any, on the bases, adding
>it to SLG doesn't seem right...
> 
>What Bill James does in his RC formula is to add .52 for each stolen base
>to the slugging component, and take away 1 for each caught stealing from
>the on base component.

	You're right.  I don't claim that this method of looking at the value
of stolen bases is close to correct.  As you've mentioned, its major fault
is that it overvalues SBs by adding them to the slugging even though they
do not advance other baserunners.

	I started converting sb/cs numbers into ba/oba/slg equivelents when
I was dealing with a number of non-statistical baseball fans.  They weren't
anti-stats; they just got turned off when you started spouting anything
more esoteric the on base average.  Thus, whenever someone started claiming
some great value for stolen bases it was easier to show them this type of
calculation then attempt to convince them that Bill James' RC formula is
realistic.

Dave
__________
Dave Bonar
eebonar@lsuvax.sncc.lsu.edu
__________
From: dxf12@po.CWRU.Edu (Douglas Fowler)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Tampa ball team - what might happen
Date: 11 Nov 1992 18:23:29 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: dxf12@po.CWRU.Edu (Douglas Fowler)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc12.ins.cwru.edu


     In 1966, the Braves moved from Milwaukee.  That city was about to
file suit, and the move of the Pilots from Seattle to MIlwaukee appeased
them.  Then Seattle filed suit - the owners were "forced" to appease it by
giving it an expansion team.  The same sort of promise occurred when
the Senators were about to leave Washington for the first time.
     Now, we have the reverse situation.  I think the owners are going to
be really scared - courts are always reluctant to grant specific performance
in such a breach action, so it appears that the Giants will have to cough
up some dough.  The owners must be scared right now, because they blocked
the deal - a jury could easily find that *they* also have to pay.  Then,
you would have a situation where declining TV revenues plus escalating
salaries could combine with this to destroy some.  *Even if there's a
lockout*, such a suit would still go forward, so the money owners would
save by not paying the players might be partially lost.
     Don't be surprised if the owners, desiring a settlement, agree to
another round of expansion.  If that happens, there'll be so many teams
(16 per league), they could have 4 divisions, 2 tiers of playoffs, and
still have division winners!  That would satisfy the owners who clamor
for more playoffs *and* satisfy the purists, right?
     (Hey, you could put the 2 New York teams in the same division as
Boston and Toronto, and let these rich franchises battle it out in their
own heavyweight division, where all the free agents want to go! :-)
-- 
Doug Fowler: dxf12@po.CWRU.edu  : Me, age 4 & now: "Mommys and Daddys & other
   "Thou shalt love God with all: relatives have to give lots of hugs & love
thy heart...*and thy neighbor as: & support, 'cause Heaven is just a great
thyself*." Luke 10:27           : big hug that lasts forever and ever!!!"
From: randall@informix.com (Randall Rhea)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Cy of Relief (Eck)
Date: 13 Nov 92 02:03:07 GMT
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.

The Oakland Coliseum has been selling Eck posters with
the caption "Cy of Relief" for a couple of years now ... prophetic,
I suppose.

Congrats to Eck.  I know that a lot of people say that relievers don't
deserve the Cy Young, but Eck had such an incredible season that he
deserved it.  


-- 

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Randall Rhea                                        Informix Software, Inc. 
Project Manager, MIS Sales/Marketing Systems    uunet!pyramid!infmx!randall
From: al1x+@andrew.cmu.edu (Amit Likhyani)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: rumor: Jay Bell for Derek Bell + a prospect
Date: 12 Nov 92 03:56:45 GMT
Organization: Senior, Electrical and Computer Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

I don't want to scare anyone, but WTAE radio in Pittsburgh said that
there is a rumored Jay Bell to toronto for Derek Bell and a prospect. 
Jose Lind is supposedly on the block also.  If both deals go through,
Garcia plays short and King plays second(or possibly vice-versa, but 
can't imagine it that way).  Lind may be on his way to LA.

Obviously, Kevin Young would start the season at third and I don't know
who plays first.  I would be suprised if Merced is starting at first.  I
expect a move to get a first baseman.

I don't dismiss this trade.  I have heard Ted Simmons go on about Garcia
and Young.  He did not trade for Bell(Doughty did).  Simmons has made it
a point to stress the minor leagues and the prospects in the system. 
Derek Bell is a tools guy that Simmons seems to like.  

If these trades are made, the 2 best prospects are playing their natural
positions and the furthest positions on the defensive spectrum that they
can play.  I don't think Jay Bell(despite his age) is going to get any
better.  He is a solid player who will be in the high .600 low .700 OPS
range.  I don't think that is good enough to make the Pirates move all
of their minor league shortstops to other positions.

The bad news is that: 1) Garcia is not going to hit as well as Bell.  He
does have more speed and the Pirates have a serious lack of team speed. 
I am not as high on Garcia as some other people.  He is not *that* young
and his walk numbers are terrible.  2) Derek Bell has not exactly set
the world on fire.  I don't have much information, but I don't get the
impression that he is all that great a prospect.  Shortstops are in
demand.  The Pirates should be able to get one hell of an outfield
prospect for him.

The Pirates need young outfielders bad.  At least they are trading a
surplus(infielders) for their deficiency(outfielders).  I don't have a
problem with trading Jay Bell, but I don't think Derek Bell is enough of
a return.

Could someone analyze Garcia's MLE for last year?  How about Derek Bell?
 How old is he?  Is he a legit prospect?
From: dave@snitor.sni.ca (Dave Till)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Toronto Fans
Date: 6 Nov 92 15:32:24 GMT
Article-I.D.: sni.1992Nov6.153224.27473
Organization: Survivors of Exhibition Stadium, Inc.

In article <1992Nov2.153643.1@uwovax.uwo.ca> jpalmer@uwovax.uwo.ca (The Econoclast) writes:
>>>>In other cities, when the team is losing, fans stay away.
>>>>In Toronto, when the team is losing, the seats are filled anyway.
>>>>Whether these seats are filled with fans is a different story.
>>>
>>>Not true: Toronto didn't sell out all playoff games in the old stadium. 
>> 
>> Ah, but the game that was not sold out was Game 2 of the ALCS in 1985.  IT
>> was an afternoon game.  And really, $35 for seats that are 800+ft away
>> from homeplate, facing in the wrong direction, is totally ludicrous.
>
>In fact, the grandstand seats in the outfield sold for just under $20
>[Cdn] and were not sold out for ANY of the games.
>[...]

Other points to add:

-- the 1985 ALCS north grandstand tickets were *general admission* (first
come, first serve).  To get a decent seat in the north grandstand (where
"decent" is defined as "able to actually see the baseball"), you had to show
up several hours before the gates opened.  (I did this for game 1.  Took the
afternoon off work.  Played cards with my friends and watched the banners and
cameras go by.  It was great.  But I digress.)  Not everyone was willing to
line up for several hours in uncomfortable weather (and no facilities) just
to get a terrible seat in a cold ballpark.

-- I don't think the other posters here have emphasized enough how terrible
Exhibition Stadium really was.  In the north grandstand, the food was inedible,
and the lineups for it enormous.  Since there was very little space behind
the (enclosed) north grandstand entryways, these lineups led to total
congestion:  at game time, it took 15 minutes to travel the 200 feet from
the turnstiles to the seats.  I shudder to think of what would have happened
had there ever been a fire.

That having been said, I find that I agree with Sherri:  Toronto fans
aren't much different from other fans.  However, the Toronto club
has a *large* area to draw fans from:  there are millions of people in
Southern Ontario and Western New York, and only one club for them to see.
When you factor in the people from other parts of Canada making trips
to Toronto just to see the Jays, you can see why the Jays draw so well.

--Dave "remembers the 'Over Here, John!' sign" Till
  e-mail path:  dave@silver.sni.ca or dave@snitor.uucp
"Canada, let it all out.  It's party time." -- Tom Cheek, Blue Jays
radio broadcaster, at approximately 1 in the morning, Sunday, October 25, 1992
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: jplee@zeus.calpoly.edu (Jason Lee)
Subject: Re: HR's in Denver
Organization: California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 19:35:39 GMT

In article <1992Nov9.235637.1109@cs.uwp.edu> krueger@cs.uwp.edu (Gerald Krueger) writes:
>Last week someone suggested reading "The Physics of Baseball"
>by Robert Adair, Sterling Professor of Physics at Yale.  On
>reading the book I found this to be quite interesting:
>
>	"Since the retarding force on the ball depends on
>	the density of the air, the ball will travel farther
>	in ball parks at higher altitudes.  A 400-foot home
>	run at Yankee Stadium, near sea level, would translate
>	to a 408-foot drive in Atlanta. . .  These differences
>	are not so great as to modify the game, but if a major
>	league franchise is someday granted to Denver
>	consideration should be given to requiring a larger 
>	park or using a less lively ball.  A 400-foot drive by
>	Dave Winfield in New York would go as much as 40 feet
>	farther through the thinner air in Denver!  Further-
>	more, pitchers would find that their fast balls were 
>	half a foot quicker in Denver though their curves 
>	would not bite quite so well. (pg 18,19)"
>
>Maybe I missed the discussion on this, but what are the dimensions
>of the park for the Rockies?  And how good an idea does MLB have
>about the conditions in Denver; Is the above common knowledge or
>are there other views? If a 400 foot HR is gonna go 440, what 
>happens when someone really gets a hold of one?
>						Jerry
>

Actually, I don't know what the dimensions for Mile High Stadium or Coors
Field, but I do have an observation on this.  Since the book says that
curveballs would not bite as much, I think pitchers who rely on curves and
sundry junk as opposed to the high hard one will have trouble, if the curve
doesn't break as much.  This is the park for guys like Ramon Martinez, who
lives on the fastball (Unless I'm mistaken about Martinez.  Please don't
flame me if I am.), and the death to junkies like Charlie (So close, yet so
far) Leibrandt.  I have a feeling that the home run won't be quite as
prevalent in Denver as everybody is thinking, but certain pitchers are going
to get lit up rather well.

I read somewhere that visitors to the Denver Zephyrs had trouble tracking
fly balls in the outfield, since the ball always traveled much farther than
they thought it would.  I'm sure the walls in Mile High Stadium and Coors
Field are going to be deep, so there should be a change in normal offensive
patterns.

Any thoughts?


-- 
Jason Lee
email:  jplee@poseidon.calpoly.edu
GO ROCKIES 1993
Don Baylor for President!!!