HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: lintz@buster.cis.udel.edu (Brian Lintz)
Subject: Re: MARVEL: How I'd Reform It
Organization: University of Delaware, Newark
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 15:18:47 GMT

In article <1444@bsu-cs.bsu.edu> dream@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Morpheus) writes:
>> 
>> >	Yes, but Shooter is largely responsible for the original "death" of
>> >Jean Gray.  The character should never have been killed in the first place.
>> 
>> What?!! _The Dark Phoenix Saga_ was one of the best stories I ever
>> read precisely BECAUSE of the ending. Jean Grey, hanging on to a
>> shred of humanity, realizes that she cannot control the Phoenix
>> force without being corrupted into Dark Phoenix and kills herself.
>> What ruined this story was bringing her back.
>> All IMO, of course.
>
>What you said WOULD be true IF it had been Jean Grey.  It was just the 
>Phoenix Force EMULATING Jean.  I think that if it had been the true Jean, 
>she could have controlled all of the PF and there would not have been 
>a Dark Phoenix.

No, at the time of the story, no one had the idea that it wasn't
Jean Grey. That was thought of later when they wanted to bring
her back and needed an excuse. It was a stupid retcon, and IMO,
it ruined _The Dark Phoenix Saga_.

Brian Lintz
lintz@udel.edu
From: Dino.Ciccone@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Dino Ciccone)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics
Subject: Re: X-men 8 (a little late)
Date: 6 Apr 92 20:04:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: samba.1992Apr6.200423.9753
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service

In article <92094.231942MAC139@psuvm.psu.edu> MAC139@psuvm.psu.edu writes:
>I hope they resolve the Psylocke-Cyclops-Jean triangle quickly. The only thing
>'Locke and Cyke have in common are the Y's in their names. To me this is just a
>poor diversion from the sure-fire conclusion that Jean and Scott are meant for
>each other. I mean, come on. Are we meant to believe that Scott, who so
>mourned the death of "Jean" (phoenix), fell in love and married her copy, and
>then abandoned her to be with the real thing--the love of his life from the
>first moment she walked into the X-mansion--is somehow ga-ga over Psylocke all
>of the sudden? I think...not.
>
>--BJP

 I agree with this, the triangle that they are trying to create has no meaning
to the link that scott and jean have.  Anyway I always thought that Psylocke
and Wolverine would most likely get together.  
I think the triangle thing is just away to turn the book in to a soap opera type 
story.  I mean the Forge-Storm-Bishop thing is another one that is also just       
getting started.                

I just think the Jean and Scott story should end with a happy ending. Since its    
been going on for so long.

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics
From: francis@cis.ohio-state.edu (RD Francis)
Subject: Filling in the back-story (was over-used lines)
Originator: francis@styracosaur.cis.ohio-state.edu
Organization: The Ohio State University, Department of Computer and Information Science
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 19:11:26 GMT

Much of the discussion on over-used lines has centered on expository
dialog; filling the reader in on the basic abilities of the
characters, so new readers aren't terribly confused.  This can get
*very* annoying, both to long-time readers and even to relatively new
ones, once they've *gotten* the idea of what those powers are.

The saddest thing is that there's an *excellent* solution to the
problem.  First Comics may have done a couple of things wrong, but one
of the things they got *very* right was their "Who are these guys,
anyway?" pages.  (If you know First, skip over the next couple of
sentences; expository dialogue alert :-)  The inside front cover of
each First comics covered the basic background information on the lead
character(s), and gave the basics of the previous issue's plot.  New
readers didn't need to be filled in on the character`s basic
background every fifth page, and could even come in in the middle of a
continued story with some idea of what's happening.

The team on the LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES have started doing this (well,
at least *part* of it); personally, I hope *someone* with half a brain
-- 
R David Francis                         (Alternate addresses): rdf+@osu.edu
                                                            osu-cis!francis
B:If you can't believe what you read in a comic book, what can you believe?
R:Oh, Bullwinkle!           B:It's enough to destroy a young moose's faith.
Xref: sparky rec.arts.comics:13463 rec.arts.sf.written:5869
From: stoodt@cis.umassd.edu (Michael Stoodt)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics,rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Wildcards
Date: 17 Apr 92 03:23:13 GMT
Organization: University of Massachusetts Dartmouth

In <1992Apr13.080958.16922@yang.earlham.edu> douga@yang.earlham.edu (Doug Atkinson) writes:

>In article <1992Apr7.023000.10816@cis.umassd.edu>, stoodt@cis.umassd.edu (Michael Stoodt) writes:
>> The first, and presumably the second, _are_ considered canonical Wild
>> Cards material.

>	Which is kind of funny, because the first issue directly 
>contradicts _Dead Man's Hand._  Anyone who's read the book should be 
>astonished at the scene in the comic where Jay strolls around the Famous 
>Bowery Wild Card Dime Museum and checks out the Monstrous Joker Babies.  
>(Not to mention that the book says he'd never met Charles Dutton before, 
>but that's a relatively minor quibble.)

The panel in which Jay is looking at the Monstrous Joker Babies is the
same panel in which his narration is "This place gives me the
willies."  The comic didn't have the space for further details...
Jay's back is turned, so we can't see his reaction to what he's
seeing; and it's Chrysalis who tells him to "Wait here..."

I've just re-read _Dead Man's Hand_ with this question in mind, and I
doubt it would take changing more than a dozen or so sentences to make
it 100% compatible with the comic, certainly within the range of
artistic license in bending the "truth" to make the books
self-contained.

Let's just agree that the next one of us who gets to a convention
where George RR Martin or other Wild Card Trust members are guests
will ask whether the comic is canonical or not, and get the answer
from the horse's mouth...

      Michael Stoodt
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics
From: flowers@caltech.edu (Dave Flowers)
Subject: Elementals #23 - Blech!
Relpy-To: dflowers@caltech.edu
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 20:21:45 GMT

	I just read Elementals #23.  The first time I tried, I couldn't bring
myself to read past the second page.  The second time, I just skimmed it, which
worked.  The artwork reminded me of an X-thing I leafed through recently (just
to remind myself why I didn't read them), and the story wasn't interesting -
just a lot of paranormals beating up on each other.  In other words, Elementals
went mainstream, and all of our (well, my) worst fears have been proved true.
I hate losing a good comic like that.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics
From: jcowling@ophelia.UVic.CA (Scowling Jim Cowling)
Subject: Re: MISC:DC:Whatever happened to....?
Organization: University of Victoria, Victoria, BC, Canada
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 05:10:52 GMT

In article <AduuIZ_00WDK84bUMe@andrew.cmu.edu> Vernon H Harmon <vh00+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>I was just reading some old comics and I was reminded of a question I've
>been wanting to ask ever since I first found r.a.c.--whatever happened
>to T.M. Maple? Anyone who read DC Comics in the 80's I'm sure knows who
>it is I speak of--except that I'm not sure if anyone ever really knew
>who it was. He/she had letters published in just about every lettercol
>DC had during the 80's. Does anyone know who this person is/was and/or
>where he/she is now (I haven't seen any letters from him/her for
>years...)??

He's (he's a he, but I don't remember his real name) is now doing reviews for
Amazing Heroes...or will be until #203, when the magazine goes on hiatus...

------
Scowling Jim Cowling (jcowling@butterfly.UVic.CA)
Creative Writing Department, University of Victoria
(opinions disassociated, but what can they do about them?)
"The manuscript?"
"You mean the large round papery thing tied up in string?"
"Yes.  What did you do with it?"
"I through it in the fire."
"The fire?!"
"Yes, the bright, hot, orangy thing beneath the stony mantelpiece."
		-E. Blackadder and Baldrick (a dogsbody)
------
From: jz1j+@andrew.cmu.edu (James D. Zelenka)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics
Subject: Re: Wildcards
Date: 7 Apr 92 14:53:25 GMT
	<1992Apr7.090838.27420@reed.edu>
Organization: Sophomore, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Excerpts from netnews.rec.arts.comics: 7-Apr-92 Re: Wildcards Michael J.
Winston@lust. (871)

> Well, I kind of thought things hit a low point during Wild Cards Abroad,  
> but I think it's shaped up pretty nicely since then.


Yeah, Aces Abroad was really weak, but the Jumper storyline (with the
exception of Melissa Snodgrass's solo book) is even weaker. I'm just
hoping they get back on track after #11.

IMO, the strongest books were Jokers Wild and Ace in the Hole. Both of
them were well-paced, and featured some of my favorite characters.

-jim
jz1j@andrew.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics
From: scs@lokkur.dexter.mi.us (Steve Simmons)
Subject: Re: Sandman Movie?!?
Organization: Inland Sea
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 92 23:11:19 GMT

crew@CS.Stanford.EDU (Roger Crew) writes:

>I always hate these discussions, but what the hey...?

>  Dream      Dustin Hoffman
>  Death      Geena Davis

Verily man, art thou jet-lagged?  William Hurt and none other for Dream.
And Davis is cute, but too tall for Death.
-- 
When Dexter's on the Internet, can Hell be far behind?
From: imcc@cs.strath.ac.uk (Iain McCord)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics
Subject: Re: DC: TT: Nightwing and Starfire (Spoilers)
Date: 9 Apr 92 10:48:53 GMT
Organization: Comp. Sci. Dept., Strathclyde Univ., Scotland.

vjmurphy@carina.unm.edu (Phred T. Platypus) writes:
>  Kory wearing disguises?  Geez, now he walks around wearing his
>  costume and no mask, sees Kory with a spy (Mirage) following him, and
>  who knows what else.  Batman should whip his butt.

  Perhaps the situation is the same as that in 'Green Arrow', anybody who
cared could find out who any superhero was.  The major problem is that the 
law finds is useful to have a few independants that they can manipulate.
  Can anyone remember the Captain Britain strip where it was shown how easy
it was for a competent police-man to find out an identity from the jaw, and
other factors.

		~~~~~/\~~~~~
Iain McCord	~~~~/()\~~~~	Thu Apr  9 11:48:51 WET DST 1992
		~~~~~~~~~~~~
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center
Date: Monday, 13 Apr 1992 11:42:05 EDT
From: <ALWHC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics
Subject: X-notes

  Just a few comments:
 1) Some are posting about a love triangle between Cyclops,Jean and Psylocke.
    Since to my knowledge there were never any hints about Cyclops and
    Psylocke, it could just be (IMHO) that Cyclops was just checking her out
    as men usually do at the beach. Psylocke is after all supposed to be the
    sex symbol of the group.(At least she has been drawn that way and mentioned
    by other X-men as gorgeous).
 2) Bishop is a good addition to the team. IMHO, he isn't the traitor because
    he practically worships the X-men, he is always seen as being in awe of
     them. Theories and speculations may fly (since this is a discussion group)
f    over who the traitor may be, but we are getting away from one thing...
  3) When are they going to finish up the whole Fitzroy/ Shinobi/Hellfire Club
     storyline. The writers are distracting us with this traitor thing and
     the X-men going to another dimension and finding Colossus' brother but
     have to resolve that storyline that first introduced Fitzroy, or have
     you all forgotten about White Queen, the Black Queen and the "game"
     over who gets control of the Hellfire Clubs inner circle? Whatever
     happened to the Hellions anyway?
  4) Time travel is a good concept, but it has been abused in the comics.Rachel
     Ahab, Cable, Bishop, etc...too much. Besides if a character prevents his
     or her timeline from happening, he/she would be altering his own existence
     so why wouldn't he just fade away as soon as he changes the future?

  5) Where did the X-men get such advanced techology...this is still the 20th
     century...

     Just some food for thought...more to come...perhaps.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics
From: picard@IASTATE.EDU (David B Roy)
Subject: Re: META: How to split?
Reply-To: picard@IASTATE.EDU (David B Roy)
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 16:13:38 GMT

In article <2046@ra.nrl.navy.mil>, ghost@ra.nrl.navy.mil (G. Host) writes:
> 
> > Article <lis.703387422@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu> From:
lis@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (Elisabeth Riba)
> 
> > Unless a good split can be worked out <VERY> soon, we may as well
> > shelve this until the fall.  Or discuss it over the summer while
> > things are quiet and vote in the fall.  Because I don't think there'll
> > be enough people here over the summer to sustain a vote.  
> 
> 
> I think the best time for the split is in the summer BECAUSE
> most of the students are gone for you generally get a lot fewer
> posted votes. 
> 
> From my past observations on rec.arts.comics split discussions are
> held every year (I recall a big one in the mid 80's) and nothing is
> resolved.
> 
> Maybe is the splits was started in the summer and the vote was
> done at the start of the fall it might work.

My trouble with holding all or parts of the vote and discussion over the summer
is this:  Doesn't that exclude a great number of people who will be affected by
this split?  If the vote is held over the summer, then most students will not be
able to take part in the vote, and the results will be forced on them.  If just
the discussion is held over the summer, then it would be a bit better, but
students won't be able to contribute to that discussion and thus, their ideas
won't be considered.
 
> A moderated info group would definitely be useful; one which posted
> upcoming comic news with source, books to be shipped, and reviews.

I like this idea.

Dave Roy
From: ibanez@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics
Subject: Re: adamantium	-IT CAN BE BROKEN!!
Date: 15 Apr 92 14:47:23 GMT
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

In article <QduY9kq00WBN899b1r@andrew.cmu.edu>, js43+@andrew.cmu.edu (James William Stepanek) writes:
>>What is the tensile strength of adamantium?
> Silly speculation but oviously too high to measure from a comic book
> description. This depends and the adamantium because there are supposed
> to be two forms the tough stuff and the Oh My God its Indestructible
> stuff.
>>Brinnel hardness?
> You lose on this test because a brinell hardness test requires and
> indentor which is harder that the object being tested and diamond is the
> standard , but diamond would be too soft for this.
>>Izod impact?
> What the hell is izod impact, I know of Charpy impact. What is this you
> hit it with a preppie's shirt?
>>Modulus of elasticity?
> assume completely rediculous
>>Melting point? 
>  I believe it does not melt once hardened, and iff enough energy were
> brought to bear it would sublimate.
>>How do you sharpen adamantium claws?
> forge them sharp in the first place or find a piece of Uru stone
>  
>>How unbreakable is unbreakable? Could you drop a tank of Wolverine and 
>>have him come out smelling like a rose?
> I suppose the skeleton could be assumed to not break but every piece of
> flesh in between tank and skeleton would be squeezed off. Ouch.
> James Stepanek
> esp


   In an issue of Marvel Super Villain Team Up, adamantium was shattered.
This is the issue, maybee #17, with Hate Monger,Arnim Zolla, and the Red
Skull on the cover holding a cosmic cube.

   Anyway, the baddies have an island hideout. SHIELD finds it and comes
looking for a fight. As the SHIELD forces near, an adamantium dome
closes over the island. Well, the SHIELD boys were prepared and brought some
kind of sonic cannon. It must have the right frequency, cause when they
turn it on the ol' adamantium dome shatters.


Now, if we can only get one of these cannons in a hand gun, and give it
to Wolverines' next opponent......... Oh well, wishfull thinking!

Jamie
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics
From: cptnerd@access.digex.com (Captain Nerd)
Subject: Need coyright info...
Followup-To: rec.arts.comics
Keywords: Champions character Captain Nerd copyright
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, Maryland USA
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 15:27:02 GMT

	Hi,

	I would appreciate any and all information regarding a possible
Champions character called "Captain Nerd".  I thought I had come up with
this character, and had even started using the name "Captain Nerd" for
my account.  Someone mailed me asking if I had gotten the name from the
RPG "Champions".  I had heard of Champions, but I don't play RPGs and I
didn't follow the comic book.  If anyone can tell me if they know about
"Captain Nerd" as a Champions character, if they know who has the copyright
if there is such a character, or any other information, please e-mail
me, to save net.bandwidth.  I >>REALLY<< don't want to violate copyright,
even accidently, but if I did come up with an original idea, (fat chance),
I want to be free to use it.  I have considered a copyright search, but
I don't have lots of $$$.  If you don't want to email me, and post here,
I will try to follow the group.

	Thanks for your help.

	Andrew Diseker, aka Captain Nerd





-- 
| Internet: cptnerd@digex.com |  "From the hard-scrabble back streets, that 
| 70714.105@compuserve.com    |  part of town called 'OOP Alley,' comes a 
champion for the Future, defender of overworked programmers everywhere, 
and foe of all who call themselves 'Management!'  Captain Nerd!"
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics
From: rhr9081@hertz.njit.edu (Ray Rich)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics
Subject: Re: Traitor unknown to writers?  I think not.....
Date: 16 Apr 92 15:47:12 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <1992Apr16.022037.17901@gn.ecn.purdue.edu> orlando@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Peter J. Orlando) writes:
>
>    About the person who talked to the writer of X-Men and him not saying
>who was th e traitor.  yes, he may have said that and yes he may have      
>looked like he was honest but I think he was blowing smoke up your chain.
>
>Look.. for them to put something like that and insinuate as much as 
>issue 8 of X-men did.. they have to know by now.  They would not h ave written
>it in.  They are not gonna drop it.  One major reason is they have too many
>people right now on both as it is.. and one needs to be drop (That one is my
>opinion) and the second major reason is THAT storyline will sell big time
>and Marvel loves that.  They will not drop this line and they know it already.
>
>Think about it.. Why would he tell you the truth?  Do you honestly believe
>he would tell you the X-traitor?  I think not.  Not to flame the 
>person who wrote the original post but I dont believe he was honest with 
>you at all.
>      
>Peter   


	Actually, it was said that the writer initially intended for it to be
Gambit, but discovering that Gambit was popular with readers, found that 
changes would have to be made.  If you think the writer could lie to generate
sales, what about Marvel as a whole.  I can't calculate the number of times
cover blurbs have lied.  For example, "The Last Galactus Story" back in F.F.
or "The End of the Human Torch" etc.  How about "X-Traitor Revealed in this
Issue!"  I think it's all a crock, and we're getting excited about nothing.
Having seen plans for more trading cards and action figures, I think, if 
anyone, it will be some minor insignificant character like Colossus' brother
or a character that is not really a member of X-Men, but a current "ally" like
Mystique (note spelling, net-users).
	                                      IMHO,
					(but that don't make it no less true),
								Raythrax
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics
From: kogutt@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (SCAVENGER)
Subject: Re: MUTANT: Rogue and Sexual Harassment
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 08:59:30 GMT

The problem with the whole Rogue/Gambit sexual harassment and Gambit not being
a real hero because of this (BTW:GREAT article, Mike Ellis) is that for any
of these topics to be delt with, there needs to be a real writer on the book.

Since Lobdell is rumored to be taking over the book, we can forget that happening.  Lets face it, Lobdell's handeling of sensitive subject matter(can you say
Northstar is gay) is not what you'd call good.  He seems to take a popular 
subject, throw it on to the page and then walk off feeling smug that he's helped
society deal with it's concerns.

-----SCAVENGER

-- 
If some unemployed punk in New Jersey, can     |kogutt@ucsu.colorado.edu <-I.NET
get a cassette to make love to Elle McPherson  |
for $19.95, this virtual reality stuff is going|No matter where you go,
to make crack look like Sanka. -  Dennis Miller| there you are."-Buckaroo Banzai
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics
From: mcollins@isis.cs.du.edu (The One and Only Killans)
Subject: Re: Comic Code Authority
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Distribution: rec.arts.comics
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 16:44:08 GMT


A question regarding DC's 'Mature Readers' comics: I remember reading
somewhere that in America these comics *could not* be sold to people under
18. I was wondering if this was part of Federal Law, State Law in certain
states or simply a suggested policy of either DC or comic shops. I don't
think there's any kind of legal restraint on who can buy then here in
Britain, although our Customs and Excise have been rather keen to
confiscate comics of a sexual nature and attempt to prosecute shop-owners
who sell them.

Mike
Xref: sparky rec.arts.comics:12728 alt.manga:1270
From: conty@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Conty)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics,alt.manga
Subject: Re: The rec.arts.{comics.}manga wars continue
Date: 10 Apr 92 18:22:21 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbnewsl.1992Apr10.182221.17104
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories

In article <1992Apr10.063322.21412@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>, bn981@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ryan Mathews) writes:


[stuff deleted]

What he said.

P.S.  Thanks for saving me from writing that article, Ryan!  :-)
-- 
			    E n r i q u e  C o n t y
			      jester@ihlpl.att.com
		   Disclaimer:  You're not dealing with AT&T.
From: imcc@cs.strath.ac.uk (Iain McCord)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics
Subject: Re: re wolfsbane
Date: 6 Apr 92 09:36:56 GMT
Organization: Comp. Sci. Dept., Strathclyde Univ., Scotland.


  Now I know what Frankenstein felt like.

The main point is that nobody can be as bigoted as a fundamentalist, or a 
fanatic of any sort.  And that converts and apostates are often the most
extreme.
Can we stop comparing assholes and get back to unreality.

		~~~~~/\~~~~~
Iain McCord	~~~~/()\~~~~	Mon Apr  6 10:36:54 WET DST 1992
		~~~~~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics