From: naturman@uctvax.uct.ac.za
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Land of Israel (Canaan only part of Israel)
Date: 29 Sep 92 15:50:02 +0200
Organization: University of Cape Town

In article <92267.102133F66204@BARILVM.BITNET>, Shaul Wallach <F66204@BARILVM.BITNET> writes:
> In article <66411@cup.portal.com>, hassan@cup.portal.com (hassan monu alam)
> writes: 
>>land of Israel. Different groups put different emphases on this particular
>>Is there an agreed upon definition what the land of Israel is? Are there
>>fixed boundaries? Or does it simply refer to a homeland?
>>Question is in the spirit of understaning, hope it will be taken that
>>way.
>>Hassan> 
>     This question is much more complicated than it sounds. The Land
> of Israel does not simply refer to a homeland, but it does have
> boundaries. However, various Jewish sources give different definitions
> of the boundaries and there are different interpretations of what
> places we know today these definitions refer to.
> 
>     The Bible (Numbers 35) gives well defined borders to the Land
> of Israel. A plausible interpretation of the places names gives
> the following approximate borders:> 
>     South border:  Starting at the southern end of the Dead Sea,
>        running southwest passing just south of Yeruham and Mizpe

lotsa stuff deleted         
> Shaul Wallach

The borders you gave are not the borders of Israel but the borders of Canaan.
The land of Israel refers to all land promised to Abraham and subsequently
inhereted by Isaac and Jacob (Israel). Canaan was only the a small part of this
land, that part from which the Israelites were commanded to oust the 
"Canaanites". Israel also comprised "all the land of the Aramaeans" as well as
the eastern dersert (called the Aravah but which should not be confused with
the modern region bearing that name) and Kedem which was the area just west of
the Euphrates. 

The full land of Israel extended from "The River of Egypt to the
river Euphrates"  Its southern border was common with the northern border of
the land of Havilah. Canaan comprised the whole mediterranean coast from the 
Nile to the bay of Alexandretta, there is no mention of any cutoff point south
of the bay, and so the full land of Israel also included this region. The
northern border was a mountain pass in the Taurus mountains.The eastern border
is the Euphrates.

The idea that the river of Egypt is the Wadi Al-Arish is a modern
nonsensical idea, the term was always understood as the Nile. Now bearing in
mind that Israel extended up to Shor, east of the Sea of Reeds (Yam-suf), it
appears that only the tip of the easternmost branch of the Nile delta was part
of the border. This point more or less marked the junction between the
Mediterranean and Yam-suf. The border between Yam-suf and the Havilah border
is clearly the Red Sea proper. 

The main problem we have is that it is not clear where the Havilah border
actually is. 

It is true that this vast region was never united under a single king but
Judaism condiders borders to be determined by G-d not by conquests.

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* Baby Doc Naturman                                                         *
* USS Enterprise                           "It's life Jim,                  *
* Final Frontier                                  but not as we know it."   *
* naturman@uctvax.uct.ac.za                                                 *
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