From: crail@nevada.edu (DONNA CRAIL-RUGOTZKE)
Subject: Re: Limiting religious speech
Organization: University of Nevada System Computing Services
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 00:50:16 GMT

In article <AULTJ.92Sep1165812@caleb.rpi.edu> aultj@rpi.edu (Jim Ault) writes:
>In article <1992Aug30.185659.12102@newstand.syr.edu> greeny@top.cis.syr.edu (J. S. Greenfield) writes:
>
>   The case you cite is a lone example of an improper application of
>   the establishment clause (based on the facts as presented).
>   Furthermore, it says absolutely nothing to support your accusation
>   of hostility aimed, in particular, at a "Judeo-Christian God."
>
>I said "those who believe in the Judeo-Christian God".
>        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>   >If you (plural) can't see that this is open hostility to Christianity,
>   >and only Christianity, then I am amazed and ashamed that we as a
>   >country have fallen this far. 
>
>   The charge that a country, in which the legislators, executives,
>   judges, and people of every state, and of the country as a whole
>   are, *overwhelmingly* Christian, and in which most politicians, and
>   even the President, openly refer to God on a frequent basis,
>   practices "open hostility to Christianity" is simply ludicrous--and
>   demonstrates just how extreme *your own* vision of what is
>   happening is.
>
>I did not say that every legislator, executive or judge practices open
>hostility toward Christianity.  I said that this _decision_ was an
>example of it. 
>
>If you want another example of hostility toward Christianity, how
>about a preacher who, two weeks ago, was arrested and put in jail for
>six months without being accused or charged with a crime, and without
>a jury trial, for preaching the gospel on a public sidewalk?  A judge
>in Houston did this almost singlehandedly, and flatly refused to let
>another judge be involved in the case.
>
>Oh, yes, the public sidewalk happened to be in front of an abortion
>clinic. *sarcasm on*  Anyone knows that the 1st amendment does not
>apply to Christians in front of abortion clinics.  *sarcasm off*
>
>I believe that the many people who want to remove every mention of God
>from our the face of government (and by extension, from everyone and
>everything that receives public funds, which lately is almost
>everyone) are denying the history of our country, and ignoring the
>wishes of the people that you yourself say are overwhelmingly
>Christian.  
>
>Does it ever occur to anyone on this side of the "establishment of
>religion" debate that the first amendment says "Congress shall make no
>law..." ? Which law has Congress passed to "establish" a religion?
>
>How is it that every public school teacher has been elevated to the
>level of Congress whenever they happen to mention God on school
>grounds?  How can a single individual actually "establish" a religion
>in a entire country, just because their salary may be paid by the
>government?
>
>Some more things to think about:
>
>How is it that the author of phrase "separation between church and
>state" (which is NOT found in the Constitution or the Declaration),
>Thomas Jefferson, who, when he served as a schoolmaster, saw fit to
>approve and heartily recommend the Bible for use in all public schools?  
>
>Could it be that the understanding of that phrase, which is so
>commonly used today, is not really what Jefferson meant?
>--
>Jim Ault, ITS Systems Programmer, aultj@rpi.edu    <><

Religion is a wonderful thing for many people.  It is not wonderful to 
have other people stuff their religious  beliefs  down your throat.
While many of us have been annoyed by street preachers, we have always
had the freedom to walk away.  

A child in a classroom does not have the freedom to  leave when a teacher
decides to preach his/her religion.  If the child protests, (s)he risks
being kicked out of class and being considered a troublemaker.  If the
child's parents decide to sue, then they may be ostercized by the community.

Many parents feel that it is their job, not the state's, to teach their 
children about God, or Allah, or whatever deity they believe in.  Many
teachers are certified to teach only certain subjects.  They are not 
qualified to teach theology.  All they could teach would be their own 
personal beliefs.  Would you want your child's teacher misquoting the 
Bible to support bigamy?  Or would you rather this teacher stick with
what (s)he is certified to teach?

Donna
crail@nevada.edu
 



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