HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hsieh@ipld00.hac.com (Julia Hsieh)
Newsgroups: misc.education
Subject: Re: Branding kids, IQ tests, smart vs dumb (Was: Re: Seminar Program)
Date: 21 Jan 93 03:12:31 GMT
Distribution: usa

In article <1993Jan17.154106.28532@julian.uwo.ca> roberts@gaul.csd.uwo.ca (Eric Roberts) writes:
>In article <1993Jan17.072656.14080@athena.mit.edu> solman@athena.mit.edu (Jason W Solinsky) writes:
>>IQ tests correlate to somebody's idea of intelligence. They are certainly NOT
>>intended to have anything to do with school peformance, but as it turns out
>>intelligent people more often to better in school than less intelligent people
>>than worse.
>How do you know that intelligent people do well in school? I was under
>the impression that often the opposite is true. 
>How do you check if those tests correlate with 'somebody's idea of 
>intelligence'? How did those who developed those tests check that?
>I have seen no proof that it is so. Have you?
> 
maybe it's a biased opinion, but during my 4 years at MIT, i met
hundreds of people who are intelligent and did well in school.  most
of my friends from high school who were intelligent did well in
school.  most of my collegues whom i admire for their intelligence did
very well in school.

in my experience, i have met some people who i would classify as
intelligent who did not do as well in school as others would expect,
but they certainly weren't the norm.

i should also add that i have also met some "less than intelligent"
people who did very well at school (regurgitating facts).

>>|> In your case the use of those tests helped to some extent, we must, however,
>>|> also think of those whose lifes have been destroyed because of them.
>>
>>Like whose?
>>
>>Jason W. Solinsky
>All those whose teachers have given up, the moment they saw some stupid
>score. Several times I have heard someone say:
>'I believed that he was rather smart, but now that he did poorly
>on that IQ test I know for a fact that he is an idiot - I have just
>given up on him....'

perhaps the blame should lie with the teachers rather than the tests.
when someone dies in a car accident, we seldom blame the car.  usually
it's driver negligence.

just my $0.02
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------
julia hsieh              My opinions are not intended to reflect
hsieh@ipld01.hac.com     those of Hughes Aircraft Company.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: misc.education,misc.kids,sci.edu
From: roberts@gaul.csd.uwo.ca (Eric Roberts)
Subject: Re: Branding kids, IQ tests, smart vs dumb
Organization: Computer Science Dept., Univ. of Western Ontario, London, Canada
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 19:30:24 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.092151.24113W@lumina.edb.tih.no> ketil@edb.tih.no writes:
>In article <1993Jan20.215406.18366@clpd.kodak.com>, staffan@ca.serum.kodak.com 
>European cultures tend to be much more aware of other aspects than the
>pure numeric IQ/SAT figure. Sure, this is a very personal opinion, but
>it is supported by the fact that eg. in Norway, the psychologist or 
>whoever administers the IQ test - in the rare cases when it is used -
>won't tell you the result; it is treated as confidential. 

This is one aspect of your post that I don't agree with. My scores belong
to me, and I have the right to know them, regardless of the fact that
they may or may not be meaningfull. Had my school ever refused to show
me my scores (not that I had any, I refused to take any tests), I would
take them to court.
From: dlytle@OAVAX.CSUCHICO.EDU (Don Lytle)
Newsgroups: misc.education
Subject: The Association for the Study of Play Conference
Date: 21 Jan 93 19:47:26 GMT
Reply-To: dlytle@OAVAX.CSUCHICO.EDU
Organization: California State University, Chico
NNTP-Posting-Host: oavax.csuchico.edu


                         *****   ANNOUNCEMENT AND CALL FOR PAPERS   *****

                                     TASP 1993 - St. Paul, MN
                             The Association for the Study of Play
              April 22 - 24, 1993 % The St. Paul Hotel % St. Paul, Minnesota

The Association For The Study of Play (TASP) will hold its 1993 annual meetings in St. Paul, Minnesota.  The conference will begin Thursday and continue until Saturday, April 24.  There will be featured speakers, playshops, and forums for the discussion and presentation of research papers on all aspects of play research, theory, performance and behavior.
TASP conferences traditionally have provided a mechanism by which researchers in diverse fields have the opportunity to share ideas and interact in a friendly and collegial atmosphere.
Papers and proposals for panel sessions or tutorials related to the broad study of play are invited.  Sessions include, but are not limited to:
 - Humor, laughter
 - Computer and cyperspace play
 - Folklore
 - Children's play behavior
 - Cross-cultural play
 - Body work and play art
 - Performance 
 - Anthropology of festive play
 - Sport
 - Literary playfulness

Deadline for submission of abstracts is February 5, 1993.

Send abstracts (100 word maximum), audio-visual needs, and registration fees  ($60 professional and $20 student made payable to TASP) to:

Dr. Don Lytle
Department of Physical Education
California State University, Chico  95929-0330. 
Bitnet/E-Mail: DLYTLE@OAVAX.CSUCHICO.EDU; FAX: 916 898-4932; 
Phone: {916} 898-6617 or 898-6373 {message}/894-5028 {evening}.
From: ec06@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (ERIC COHEN)
Newsgroups: misc.education
Subject: Re: Time-Warner, Channel One and the "Edison Project"
Date: 27 Jan 93 17:11:26 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

I believe that there is a place for for-profit schools in education.
I am only slightly familiar with the Edison project, but I think
that to encourage real innovation quickly in schools, we need to
move the government out of education. I think competition will
inspire innovation and equity in schools. There is now too much
beaurocracy that inhibits teachers and the learning process. The
innovations I look for are technology based, and their
adoption would entail a culture change that I think is impossible in
our current educational system.

So would do you think about for-profit schools and getting the
government out of education? I would like to share views. You can respond
to me direct or on this bulletin board. By the way, does anyone know
where I can get more information on the Edison Project, and has anyone
seen the excellent article by Lewis Perelman in the premier issue of
Wired magazine? The article discusses the evolution of the classroom
and the role of technology in the classroom as the author builds his
case for getting the government out of education. Any thoughts if
you have read the article?

I look forward to hearing from you!

Eric Cohen
EC06@Lehigh.Edu




>
Newsgroups: misc.education
From: broy@TrentU.CA (BROY)
Subject: MULTIPLE GRADES
Reply-To: broy@TrentU.CA
Organization: Trent University, Peterborough
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 15:15:24 GMT

	Regarding your question on multiple grades:  One reason why an 
attempt is being made to group students together of more than one "grade" 
is to allow for different rates of growth in various realms of life such as 
social, physical, psychological, emotional and intellectual.  As we know, 
children mature in these areas at different rates and therefore, in our 
present educational systmem (where students are grouped almost solely on 
the basis on their chronological age) we do not allow for more than a 
year's difference in the various domains previously mentionned.  So rather 
than grouping entirely according to age, there is more of a chance to group 
students according to various abilities together. (since there would likely 
be up to a three year spread between those in the same grade)   This would 
therefore allow for students to progress at different levels.  One scenario 
might be as follows:

Student A is gifted at Math, somewhat at Art, but not at Physical sports.  
Therefore, he might be with those students who are more ahead at Math; 
switching to a group less adept at Art time; and then going with a 
different group who find Physical sports more difficult and demanding.
This type of system can be more easily accomplished if a class encompasses 
students across two or three grade levels because various in learing rates 
for different individuals and different subject areas.

Newsgroups: misc.education,misc.kids,sci.edu
From: solman@athena.mit.edu (Jason W Solinsky)
Subject: Re: Branding kids, IQ tests, smart vs dumb (Was: Re: Seminar Program)
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 14:24:26 GMT

Using just SAT's you get a positive correlation coefficient with GPA of between
0.3 and 0.4. If you include Achievements you get between 0.4 and 0.5. If you
include a very simple formula based on grades and weight the achievements and
SAT's appropriatelly you get about 0.55.

Jason W. Solinsky
From: Eirik.Ora@newcastle.ac.uk ("Eirik Ora")
Newsgroups: misc.education
Subject: TEACHING ENVIRONMENT FOR COMP. SCI. STUDENTS?
Date: 21 Jan 93 16:34:56 GMT
X-Mailer: mail-news newcastle perl version

At university of Newcastle upon Tyne, UK, the students doing a Msc in 
computing science are currently working on developing a teaching 
environment for first year computing science students. This tool is 
basically being used to teach C++ and UNIX and to familiarise students
with computers. The software is going to run on Macs running AUX (An Apple
version of Unix).

We are interested in getting serious views on useful features of such
an environment and in getting information about existing teaching 
software on more advanced levels.

Instead of posting your meaning to this group, please mail us instead and
we will post a resume of what we got in some weeks time.

Please mail any ideas, comments or information to : Eirik.Ora@newcastle.ac.uk
From: Crawford_Kilian@mindlink.bc.ca (Crawford Kilian)
Newsgroups: misc.education
Subject: Re: Why can't the liberals just admit that public education
Date: 25 Jan 93 16:41:35 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada

Herman Rubin concludes a recent posting in this tedious thread by observing:

Most of those who adopt the current "liberal" position believe that they have
the right to impose their morality on us, just as most of those who adopt the
current "conservative" position, or the current "Perotist" position.  So I
will conclude with a quote, source unknown:

        The greatest immorality of all is to force one's morality on another.

Herman, you've been spending too much time online instead of upholding high
standards among your stats students. Your quote tells us we're all a bunch of
Bad People because we impose our morality on drug peddlers, murderers, wife
beaters, inside traders and other people whose values we don't agree with.

And what's this all got to with education?


--
Crawford Kilian   Communications Department   Capilano College
North Vancouver BC Canada V7J 3H5
Usenet: Crawford_Kilian@mindlink.bc.ca
Internet: ckilian@first.etc.bc.ca
From: bhat@cs.columbia.edu (Dinkar Bhat)
Newsgroups: misc.education
Subject: Re: Gre scores
Date: 27 Jan 93 21:31:23 GMT
Organization: Columbia University Department of Computer Science

In article <CEDMAN.93Jan26163825@capitalist.princeton.edu> cedman@princeton.edu (Carl Edman) writes:
>In article <1k2davINN8m3@MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU> owen-christopher@yale.edu (Christopher Owen) writes:
>   In article <1993Jan25.220503.25309@Virginia.EDU> mjr4u@Virginia.EDU (Matthew Jerome Rush) writes:
>   >How important is your analytical score?  I did pretty average
>   >on the first two, but got a 690 on what I like to call the
>   >"Crossword Puzzle Book" section.  Did that really help me get
>   >into a good English program?
>
>   This really depends.  Some programs openly say that they don't consider the
>   analytical score.  Most psychology programs for instance claim that they
>   don't even look at it (unlikely but that is what they say).  My guess is
>   that a good analytical score will of course help in english programs, but
>   not all that much.
>
I consider the analytical part as a ridiculous. If you have a bag of tricks
you will be fine. The analytical part has the highest degree of error compared
to the other two. It may be more suitable to somebody who wants to be in
business?

Dinkar.
Xref: sparky misc.education:6118 misc.kids:33320 sci.edu:1473
From: elise@ticipa.pac.sc.ti.com (Elise Wade)
Subject: Re: Branding kids, IQ tests, smart vs dumb (Was: Re: Seminar Program)
Organization: Texas Instruments
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 19:14:26 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.205714.9514@sequent.com> petel@sequent.com (Pete Lancashire) writes:
>clin@eng.umd.edu (Charles Lin) writes:
>
>
[...]
>
>From what I have been able to collect mostly about human (child)
>ethology and child psy, a LOT has come out in just the last five or
>so years. I have a theory but it may seem sexist. I think one factor
>is that in the last ten years the percentage of women entering the
>behavior and psy fields has shot up. A little of track but.....
>
>
[...]
>-pete
>Pete Lancashire
>petel@sequent.com

Hum, perhaps we can restate that so it isn't sexist, but still
retains an interesting point --- Maybe the difference is that
there are a lot of folks now entering those fields who actually
spend a significant amount of time raising their own children.
Being an active, fully participating parent changes your viewpoint.

Elise.
Newsgroups: misc.education,sci.edu
From: john@jlc.mv.com (John Leslie)
Subject: Rereading 20 times (was: Branding kids)
Organization: John Leslie Consulting, Milford NH
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 00:14:01 GMT

solman@athena.mit.edu (Jason W Solinsky) writes:
> peri@cco.caltech.edu (Michal Leah Peri) writes:
>|> hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin) writes:
>|> 
>|> >Rereading that book 20
>|> >times to try to understand something is unlikely to succeed.
>|> 
>|> I dunno.  It works for me.
>
>If this comprises learning then the learning environment leaves something
>to be desired.
>
>Jason Solinsky

   Ohmigosh, two giants with one blow...

   Sorry, Herman and Jason, you're both wrong.  (And if you don't mend
your ways, Jason, you'll end up like Herman.  ;^)

   All you have to do to understand that difficult book is re-read it 
concentrating on ten different questions.  (It *will* go a lot faster 
if you get someone else to answer those questions, but you won't be 
learning as much.)

   Entirely too many students today are being taught, "If at first you
don't succeed, change your major."  This is just plain wrong.  In real-
world problem-solving, you don't "at first" succeed -- if you solve the 
problem after a month of chipping away at it, you're a success.  If you 
do that consistently, you become your company's secret of success.

   After you get out of school, the ticket to success is the attitude
that you're not going to *let* any problem defeat you.  Your most
effective problem-solving tool will be an ability to extract the
necessary pieces of information from the book where you *know* they
reside.

P.S.  I remain a fan of both Herman and Jason -- they're just wrong
about this one thing...

John Leslie <john@jlc.mv.com>
Newsgroups: misc.education
From: carl@aoa.aoa.utc.com (Carl Witthoft)
Subject: Re: Branding kids, IQ tests, smart vs dumb (Was: Re: Seminar Program)
Organization: Adaptive Optics Associates
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1993 18:11:38 GMT

In article <76945@apple.apple.COM> billc@Apple.COM (Bill Cockayne) writes:
>the moral...standardized tests do NOT indicate intelligence. they indicate
>SAT test taking ability. (ps - has anyone ever scored a SAT when the answers
>are chosen by making patterns? you can get a pretty good score.)
x
First of all, "indicate" doesn't have much if any meaning in the science
of statistics (or demographics).  As several have already pointed out,
your personal correlation or lack thereof between SAT score and
college performance means nothing.
Not to mention that people who get straight A's at some comunity
college would get destroyed at CalTech: not all colleges have the same
standards.
As to the notion of "hard work": there's a big difference between
difficult or challenging work and long, tedious, repetitive work.
Both have their place.  Try being good at basketball or solving
integrals (or the violin) without both types of hard work.


-- 
Carl Witthoft @ Adaptive Optics Associates
aoa!carl@bbn.com  carl@aoa.utc.com
54 CambridgePark Drive, Cambridge,MA 02140 617-864-0201
Newsgroups: misc.education,misc.kids,sci.edu
From: elise@ticipa.pac.sc.ti.com (Elise Wade)
Subject: Re: Branding kids, IQ tests, smart vs dumb
Organization: Texas Instruments
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 19:07:50 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.193024.12586@julian.uwo.ca> roberts@gaul.csd.uwo.ca (Eric Roberts) writes:
>In article <1993Jan21.092151.24113W@lumina.edb.tih.no> ketil@edb.tih.no writes:
>>In article <1993Jan20.215406.18366@clpd.kodak.com>, staffan@ca.serum.kodak.com 
>>European cultures tend to be much more aware of other aspects than the
>>pure numeric IQ/SAT figure. Sure, this is a very personal opinion, but
>>it is supported by the fact that eg. in Norway, the psychologist or 
>>whoever administers the IQ test - in the rare cases when it is used -
>>won't tell you the result; it is treated as confidential. 
>
>This is one aspect of your post that I don't agree with. My scores belong
>to me, and I have the right to know them, regardless of the fact that
>they may or may not be meaningfull. Had my school ever refused to show
>me my scores (not that I had any, I refused to take any tests), I would
>take them to court.
From: goddard@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Bart E. Goddard)
Newsgroups: misc.education
Subject: Whole Language
Date: 25 Jan 1993 18:04:19 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department at Rose-Hulman
Reply-To: goddard@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Bart E. Goddard)
NNTP-Posting-Host: g214-1.nextwork.rose-hulman.edu

I am having a (public and important) argument, and I need some data and 
some opinions.  If any reader of this group has comments or data he would like  
to share with me on the subject of "whole language", I would sincerely  
appreciate email at the address below.  Thanks.

--
Bart Goddard                            |Behold, thy King cometh unto thee,
Math. Dept. Rose-Hulman Inst. of Tech.  |meek, and sitting upon an ass, and
goddard@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu        |a colt, the foal of an ass.
Newsgroups: misc.education
From: taylorv@pell1l10.alleg.edu (Virginia Taylor)
Subject: teaching position
Keywords: bilingual-elementary
Organization: Allegheny College
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 00:11:22 GMT


I'm a graduating senior looking for a job as a teacher/teacher assistant  
at the elementary school level in the the states of New Jersey (Hoboken  
area) and Michigan (Detroit, Ann Arbor area).  
I am fully bilingual:english and spanish and am most interested in working  
with Hispanic communities. 
Any information, please send e-mail.
Virginia Taylor
Newsgroups: misc.education
From: wkl1@Ra.MsState.Edu (Wing-Keong Loke                                               the consummate chronic prevaricator)
Subject: Re: Gre scores
Organization: Mississippi State University
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 21:46:13 GMT

In article <CEDMAN.93Jan26163825@capitalist.princeton.edu> cedman@princeton.edu (Carl Edman) writes:
>
>It has been my impression as well that the analytical score is widely
>ignored.  But I do wonder why that is so.  At least superficially it
>would seem to me that this score would come closest to measuring an
>important inate ability ie. to reason logically quickly and
>accurately, while the verbal test essentially only measures vocabulary
>which anybody can acquire by reading and the quantitative test doesn't
>touch on anything which any reasonably awake eighth grader even in an
>american high school wouldn't have learned regardless of talent.  Does
>anybody know ?
>
>        Carl Edman

	because the psychologists found that the score didn't correlate
well!  Just goes to show what common sense is worth.  Good too.  I bombed
the analytic section.

Newsgroups: misc.education
From: johnwu@netcom.com (John M. Wu)
Subject: Re: Gre scores
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 07:21:42 GMT

In article <CEDMAN.93Jan26163825@capitalist.princeton.edu> cedman@princeton.edu (Carl Edman) writes:
>It has been my impression as well that the analytical score is widely
>ignored.  But I do wonder why that is so.  At least superficially it
>would seem to me that this score would come closest to measuring an
>important inate ability ie. to reason logically quickly and
>accurately, while the verbal test essentially only measures vocabulary
>which anybody can acquire by reading and the quantitative test doesn't
>touch on anything which any reasonably awake eighth grader even in an
>american high school wouldn't have learned regardless of talent.  Does
>anybody know ?

The verbal portion of the SAT/GRE measure how much reading a student has
done in the past by testing the student's vocabulary to the limits.
US high school and college students watch too much TV and party
too much.  Do you really want a grad student who hasn't read much
in the last 8 years?

-- 
John M. Wu                "And if a double decker bus, crashes into us
johnwu@netcom.com          to die by your side, is such a heavenly way to die"
jmw@ocf.berkeley.edu         - There Is A Light That Never Goes Out
#include <flameprotect.h>
From: lcrew@andromeda.rutgers.edu (Louie Crew)
Newsgroups: misc.education
Subject: E-Directory of Lesbigay Scholars
Date: 25 Jan 93 00:46:29 GMT
Reply-To: <lcrew@andromeda.rutgers.edu>
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.


I am compiling an E-Mail Directory of Lesbigay Scholars.  To be included, 
fill out the form below and return it to me:   
 
              lcrew@andromeda.rutgers.edu
        or
 
              CompuServe:   73517,147   
 
(I prefer the first, which I access daily.  I read the second only about
once a fortnight.  Do NOT send by snail mail.) 
 
The list will help lesbigay scholars connect regarding on-going 
manuscripts, conferences, and other scholarly projects.   I will send
the Directory to all who agree to be listed, with updates individual
by individual.

I will also make available to you one e-mail address by which you
can post annooncement of interest to the entire group.  But you are
not signing on to a discussion list per se--rather, a resource
list.
 
Please share this announcement with any friends who might be interested
and with any other e-networks where forthright lesbigay scholars might 
assemble qua scholars.
 
Thank you.
 
Louie Crew
Author/editor of _The Gay Academic_ and 940+ others
Co-founder of the Lesgay Caucus of the National Council of Teachers of English
Founder of Integrity, the lesgay justice ministry of the Episcopal Church
Academic Foundations Department, Rutgers University/Newark
(Snail mail:   P. O. Box 30, Newark, NJ 07101)
============================================================================
                 Entry Form for E-Directory of Lesbigay Scholars
Name:
 
Institutional affiliation:
       Department:
       Position:
E-mail address(es):
Snail mail:
Phone(s)
FAX:
 
Citations of a sample of yr. previous lesbigay scholarly projects:
 
List/description of yr. on-going lesbigay scholarly projects: 
 
 


-- 
  ==========================================================================
  Louie Crew, Academic Foundations Department, Rutgers University, NWK 07102
  lcrew@andromeda.rutgers.edu                                   201-485-4503
                   Preferred:  P. O. Box 30, Newark, NJ 07101
Newsgroups: misc.education