From: rpitts@emperor.gatech.edu (Richard Pitts)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Rich Men and Heaven, Part 2
Date: 11 Sep 92 19:05:32 GMT
Organization: CERL-EE, Georgia Institue of Technology

In article <ksand-100992121818@wintermute.apple.com> ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik) writes:
>Jesus told the story of the rich man and Lazarus, which seems to yet again
>reflect the authentic celibate-communistic principles of Jesus. The only
                                                                 ^^^^^^^^
>wickedness of the rich man consists in the fact that he fares sumptuously
 ^^^^^^^^^^
>and is clothed in purple and fine linen. While the beggar Lazarus, full of

I believe you missed the "failing to love your neighbor fault" of the rich
man, for Lazarus lay at the rich man's gate longing to for scraps.

>scores, begs at his gate. We are not told if the beggar was a cripple or
>not, itUs not of the slightest import. He was poor, and that made him holy.

I'm not sure you can point to a Scripture to says this man was holy, in
fact there aren't many proclaimed to be holy in the Scriptures.

Here's most of the story, if anyone wants I'll post the rest:

   Luke 16:19   "There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen
      and lived in luxury every day.
   Luke 16:20   At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with
      sores
   Luke 16:21   and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even
      the dogs came and licked his sores.
   Luke 16:22   "The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him
      to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried.
   Luke 16:23   In hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham
      far away, with Lazarus by his side.
   Luke 16:24   So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send 
      Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue,
      because I am in agony in this fire.'
   Luke 16:25   "But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you
      received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he
      is comforted here and you are in agony.

   Luke 16:31   "He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the
      Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the 
      dead.'"


>Both men die. Lazarus ascends to the bottom of Abraham and the rich man
>necessarily goes down into the flames of hell. Here, in the extremity of
>agony, he begs just a drop of water to cool his burning tongue. Any such
>relief would be a denial of the divine justice. But as the Bible states:
>Rthou in the lifetime received good things, and likewise Lazarus evil
>things: but now he is comforted, and you are tormentedS.
>
>The story of the rich man and Lazarus is basically a story to establish the
>ethical necessity of practising wealth sharing on earth in order to escape
>hell hereafter.

I believe you hit a good point, but still it doesn't merit salvation.  
However, it is part of the second commandment - to love your neighbor 
as yourself.  The first is to love God.

>As for the earlier statement about the young man that didnUt want to sell
>everything for joining Jesus. From an objective point of view it clearly
>means that no human motivation or persuation could be sufficient to compel
>a rich heir to surrender his wealth voluntarily. However, if he was one of

I wouldn't go as far as to say nothing less than the divine could compel
a rich man to give, but again you have a good point - people are greedy.
However, man's pride is pretty large - to be paraded as a great benefactor
among one's peers, might persuaded one to give something.

>the elected, he would be compelled by a divine, inner compulsion to
>renounce his worldly goods. The believe that Jesus meant that the young man
>could keep his wealth and also inherit the Kingdom is preposterous. Jesus
>does not even state this in the Gospels.

But JESUS DID STATE THAT IF WE BELIEVE ON HIM, GOD'S SON, WE SHALL HAVE
ETERNAL LIFE, but if you don't believe then you remain comdemned.

Oh, Kent, you might be interested in the story of a man giving part of
his stuff away and Jesus responded by saying "Today salvation has come
to this/your house."  Maybe Jesus noticed a change in the person's heart
and the work was the result, huh?  I think this is it, don't you?

For Christ and His Kingdom,
Richard Pitts
-- 
rpitts@cerl.gatech.edu       |    
Atlanta, GA                --|-- 
                        -|-  |  -|-
                         |   |   |
Xref: sparky talk.religion.misc:16012 alt.atheism:16928