From: sfjr@wam.umd.edu (Sherri)
Subject: Re: Adults saying NO
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 02:21:58 GMT

In article <BtLyK5.3K6@unx.sas.com> sasnla@shadow.unx.sas.com (Nancy Agnew) writes:
>
>In article <BtLpFB.HFD.1@cs.cmu.edu>, kram+@SOUTHFORK.EDRC.CMU.EDU (Paul Kram) writes:
>>
>>Can I be sure a survivor means "Yes" when she says "Yes"?  
>>Does the difficulty with saying "No" carry over to 
>>relationships that you choose to have with another 
>>adult?  (e.g. do you become involved sexually before
>>you really want to?)  Is there a way to ask the
>>Yes/No question that has a better chance of getting
>>a freely-given heartfelt true answer?  
>

A friend of mine who was recently dating a survivor once described a very sad
example.  This woman is unable to say no.  The most she would do when
she didn't want sex is maybe move her legs slightly closer together.  And
this wasn't just when she had mixed feelings, this was when she _really_
didn't want to and having sex would feel like being raped.
 
Nancy writes:>
>I would say the difficulty definitely can carry over, for me it does
>anyway.  One of the things that happens is that I can regress during sex
>(or foreplay) so that I'm not really thinking as an adult anymore.  That
>can be spooky and it is hard for me to give a "freely-given heartfelt
>true answer" at those times.

I can really relate to this, and I have a really hard time talking when
I feel kind of spacy and confused.  These feelings can also come up at 
any time, even times when I started being sexual with great enthusiasm.
I am usually not theone to acknowledge the shift into dissociation, my SO
is usually the one who does it.  Whether or not it's 'caretaking', it's
the only way we can really work on it now, and it is what's teaching me
slowly to recognize and acknowledge my feelings.

>One thing that makes a tremendous difference is being able to say NO or
>STOP at *ANY* time during sex -- that way, if stuff comes up (flashback/
>body memory/dissociation), I can attempt to come back to the present and
>know who I am with and realize the abuse isn't being replayed.

This is also the most important thing for me, feeling that I can stop at
any time.  Most caring allies probably assume that, of course, stopping
is the appropriate thing to do when your lover starts having a flashback
or dissociating.  But most survivors, and most women probably, have
received a lot of messages that not 'finishing what you started' is 
outrageous behavior.

  Not much
>fun for an SO, but it makes it possible for me to be willing to try as
>opposed to avoiding sex altogether.  The alternatives of either celibacy
>or feeling perpetually abused are even less fun, I think.
>

There are times, I'm sure, when it's not much fun, but I think that all
people should feel the freedom to stop sex at any time  (of course, if
it really seems like someone is trying to frustrate you as much as possible,
then that's a problem, but it's probably a general problem of manipulation,
not sex).  Sex is not just about at least one or more people having an
orgasm.  It's a common and comfortable point before resolution, but it
shouldn't be the designated one.


{other good stuff by Nancy deleted}

Take care everyone, and ehugs to all who choose them,

Sherri



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