From: han@anadolu.michigan.com (hasan.b.mutlu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish,talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history
Subject: Re: The 'ASALA/SDPA/ARF' 'kucukucus' Would Like 'Tamamidis,' I Think.
Date: 15 Aug 92 04:11:13 GMT






<1992Aug15.040441.16834@ddsw1.mcs.com>
karl@ddsw1.mcs.com (Karl Denninger)

>>I already did. Are you claiming that 'anadolu.michigan.com' is not a 
>>legitimate address for 'mutlu?' I am responsible for every single
>>article posted from 'anadolu.michigan.com' or 'ddsw1.mcs.com.'

>Nope.  I am not claiming that at all.  Anadolu.michigan.com is quite a
>legitimate address, as is "ddsw1.mcs.com" :-)

Then, what seems to be the problem?

>However, it would appear from the logs posted that Ahmet Cosar forged a
>message so as to appear to have came from you.  

And the best evidence you can find is second hand hearsay from an
unnamed source. Is it really your intent to make such a statement?

>All I am interested in (for
>curiosity's sake; I'm certainly not upset if you want others to post in your
>name or likeness) is whether you agree that he did this with your knowledge
>and consent.

What evidence is there that he did it? Furthermore, what confirmable
evidence does 'Zap* the Criminal' of IBM provide? May I ask what Cosar's 
purpose would be in conducting such a poorly designed experiment? What 
would the conclusions be, depending on the outcome? In the proper context 
of event, this is intellectually and morally dishonest. 

>My interest here is in whether the article cited really did originate at
>anadolu, 

Absolutely.

>'or if it was forged to >appear< to have come from anadolu.  

The statement is blatantly wrong. 

>As you're quite aware, people have a lot of fun forging articles that appear 
>to have come from you (and I too) occasionally.  Its quite a bit of fun to 
>run these down when they appear.  

When they cannot argue/discuss with the facts, they descend into total 
inanity. Too bad they don't have the advantages of modern technology
and the scientific mind.

>I'm interested (for academic reasons) in whether or not the article cited was:

>1)	From you, and vectored through Ahmet's machine for traffic control
>	or other reasons.

Right on the money.

>2)	From Ahmet, forged to appear as if from you, with your consent.

Sorry, but your argument falls flat on its face. No sign exists nor has
it ever existed.

>3)	From Ahmet, forged to appear as if from you, WITHOUT your consent.

A fabrication of 'Zap* the Criminal' of IBM.

>You see, #3 is reprehensible.  #2 casts some interesting shadows over the 
>entire idea of you being the author of your works.  #1 is quite normal 
>procedure, especially in times of heavy system load; nothing wrong there.

You make me laugh, Karl.

>I can draw any of the above conclusions from the evidence.  There isn't
>enough there to >know< what happened.  That is why I asked.  

You can assert whatever you want; my articles speak for themselves.

>It looks
>suspicious to route postings through Ahmet's machine instead of directly
>into Michigan.Com; why take the extra hop?

Why not? I use several ways to post my articles.

>>>While logs can be forged just like anything else, this evidence certainly 
>>>looked like quite a smoking gun to me...
>>
>>This is utter assertion, without even a hint of factual data to 
>>confirm it, Karl.

>Really?  Sendmail logs are easily analyzed; the patterns are well-known.

So?

>Unless the people who provided them from the un-involved sites (ucbvax, etc)
>are corrupt (and what reason would they have to be?), or Zap* has changed
>the logs (possible, but no evidence for this) it does indeed look like Ahmet
>Cosar either originated or forwarded a mail message intended to be posted as
>if it originated with you. 

They all originate with me. Your statement above is thus false.

>Whether it did originate with you is the point, and if it did not, was this
>with or without your knowledge and consent?

And it did originate with me. 

Hasan B-) Mutlu

                     'Kill Turks and Kurds wherever you find them 
                      and in whatever circumstances you find them. 
                      Turkish children also should be killed as 
                      they form a danger to the Armenian nation.' 
                                     (Hamparsum Boyadjian - 1914)
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