HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pierce@seas.gwu.edu (Jeffrey S. Pierce)
Subject: The Shadow Rising - Robert Jordan **SPOILERS**
Summary: New Idea to Toy With 
Keywords: TSR Jordan Shadow
 
Organization: George Washington University
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 23:20:59 GMT

Spoilers ahead, all!  Avert the eyes!



Here's a new idea for those who have read TSR to chew on - what do
you think will happen with Logain?  Now that he's free from the Tower
and (nominally) under Siuan's control, think that he'll join forces
with Rand and his group?  Recall that Min saw an aura of power and
glory about his head.  Anyone want to wager that Rand figures out 
some way to remove the block from saidin so that Logain can channel
again?  
My personal suspicions are that Logain *does* join forces with Rand,
even if he is not un-stilled (if such a thing is possible).  I believe
(and could be wrong) that mention is made of his tactical ability - 
maybe he'll serve as a general or something even if he doesn't recover
his powers.
So let's hear it - wagers on the outcome, anyone?

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
----			Jeff Pierce                     ----
George Washington University   |  Naval Research Lab
pierce@seas.gwu.edu	       |  pierce@enews.nrl.navy.mil
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: cpf@alchemy.TN.Cornell.EDU (Courtenay Footman)
Subject: Mistakes in "The Shadow Rising"
Organization: Alchemy International, Ithaca, N.Y.
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 21:31:45 GMT

No repeat no spoiler.
 
In "The Wheel of Time", Robert Jordon is juggling a huge number
of characters.  Occasionally, he juggles so much that he gets
confused.  In "The Shadow Rising", on page 377, 6th paragraph,
3rd line, he writes "Master al'Vere" where he means "Master 
al'Thor';  on page 401, he writes "Nynaeve's" in place of "Morraine's".
 
Does anyone else have any examples of clear mistakes in any of
the books?  (Purely typographical errors are not particularly
interesting.  These copy errors are not typographical.)
 
(If you do have an example, please try and post it in a way that
is not a spoiler, or indicate that it is a spoiler.)
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Courtenay Footman			I finally got back on the net.

cpf@alchemy.ithaca.ny.us		Now I will never get anything done
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: dresnick@athena.mit.edu (David I Resnick)
Subject: Re: Podkayne of Mars (spoilers)
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 18:47:07 GMT

In article <9210111739.AA07796@rutgers.edu> EBARRANT@ucrvm2.BITNET (Gabriela Barrantes) writes:

  Hi,
>   Is it true that two different endings for _Podkayne of Mars_ by Robert
>  Heinlein exist?
>  I only have one version, could anybody summarize both of them for me?
Spoilers!
























The published version (which you probably have) ends with Poddy
getting injured but probably recovering.  In Heinlein's original final
chapter (printed in Grumbles from the Grave, P. 257), Poddy is killed.
This apparently was considered by his editors to be too grim an
ending, so it was replaced.

--
       David Resnick                           dresnick@athena.mit.edu      
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: jfreund@mindvox.phantom.com (Jim Freund)
Subject: Re: Looking for 2 books: help on author & title needed.
Organization: [Phantom Access] / the MindVox system
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 20:53:42 GMT

rene@iesd.auc.dk (Rene Boe Soerensen) writes:

> The first book was about a second rate actor who gets drafted into
> acting as President/Ambassador/Businessman when this P./A./B. gets
> kidnapped, since he has a striking similarity to this P./A./B. and
> this P./A./B. has to appear before the public. This is done to gain
> time to find the real P./A./B.

Sounds like _Double Star_, by Robert Heinlein.

--                                                               --
                     WBAI -- 99.5 FM  /  ZiffNet
From: pjj@cs.man.ac.uk (Pete Jinks)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Weirdstone location? (Was Re:Alan Garner)
Date: 8 Oct 92 16:42:59 GMT

>> Where was Weirdstone set?  Is "Alderley" a real place I can look up in the 

>Yes, it is. Going on 15+ year old memories, you should try
>Macclesfield, near Poole. Can't recall what's really real, and what's
		I think you meant near Manchester ?
>made up - but most of the non-fantastic geography is correct.

Yes. Most of it + Moon of Gomrath takes place on the western edge of the
Pennines just south of Manchester. Every place-name that I tried looking up
was really there, except for those too local to be on my map (e.g.
individual houses + woods). I came across the wizard (actually his face, I
think it was) on the Edge itself. I did not try looking for the other places
on the Edge - it might spoil the book. I get the impression that many of the
places referred to are more built-up now.
From: mimir@stein.u.washington.edu (Al Billings)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Burying the Shadow by Constantine
Date: 12 Oct 92 19:27:59 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Oct12.192759.21019
Organization: The Friends of Loki Society


 In the U.S., the September/October issue of _Science Fiction Chronicle_
mentioned that _Burying the Shadow_ is supposed to be released in Sptember
or so in the U.K. at a price of 4.99 pounds. I assume (from my 4.99 pound
copy of Hermetech) that this is a paperback and should be available in
Canada at around the same time. I'm in the U.S. and it isn't going to be
out here for years, if at all. Has anyone, especially in Canada, seen this
book by Storm Constantine in paperback. I live just two or so hours from
Vancouver, B.C. so I make it up there every now and then. If someone has
seen the paperback, I want to make an effort to get it next time I am in
Canada.

Wassail,
Al

                           mimir@u.washington.edu
    /\  /\       +----------------------------------------+
   /__\/__\      | "I know that I hung on the windy tree  |          |
  /\  /\  /\     |  all of nights nine, wounded by Gar,   |          |
 /__\/__\/__\    |   given to Odhinn, myself to myself,   |          |
    /\  /\       | upon that tree of which none can tell  |          |
   /__\/__\      |      from what root it rises."         |    ______|______
                 +----------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: joern@ifi.uio.no (J|rn Hagerup)
Subject: Re: Gormenghast vol. 3
Keywords: ISBNs, hurrah  :)
Organization: Dept. of Informatics, University of Oslo, Norway
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 17:49:45 GMT
Originator: joern@gnaa.ifi.uio.no


eliz@ai.mit.edu (Elizabeth Willey) writes:

>       ..., because a new edition of all three, in very attractive and
> readable large-size paperback, has recently been issued (sorry, I don't
> own the books, and I don't have information on publisher).  I have
> heard that this edition contains a more complete version of _Titus
> Alone_ than has previously appeared, and I would recommend getting
> this newer edition (sight unseen) rather than picking up an older
> version.

I guess you're referring to the Mandarin Books 1991 version, quite
a nice set.  I don't know about the completeness of _Titus Alone_,
but anyway, here are the ISBN numbers ...

	Titus Groan	ISBN 0-7493-0051-5
	Gormenghast	ISBN 0-7493-0052-3
	Titus Alone	ISBN 0-7493-0053-1

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Joern Hagerup                 joern@ifi.uio.no 
 Dept. of Informatics
 University of Oslo, Norway
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: speterse%peruvian.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (soren--Ms. Jackson if you're nasty)
Subject: Re: a random quote to brighten your day
Date: 7 Oct 92 18:11:54 MDT
Organization: The Erland Cult

In article <1avnt9INN3ts@agate.berkeley.edu> curtis@cs.berkeley.edu (Curtis Yarvin) writes:

>'"Yes,  but - no - wait!" for Alyx sprung to her feet
>and fetched from his stool the pillow on which he
>had been sitting, the purpose of which he did not
>at first seem to comprehend, but then his eyes went
>wide with horror, for she had got the pillow in order
>to smother him, and that is just what she did.'

>Can anyone guess the author?

Joanna Russ.

--
    "From your signature it is obvious that you are a homosexual"
soren f petersen           :        i AM NOT          :    --Doc
speterse@peruvian.utah.edu :  THE university OF utah  :
"How could I dance with another/When I saw him standing there"  --Tiffany
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: dlsteven@nyx.cs.du.edu (Doug Stevens)
Subject: Dark Tower
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 92 01:10:24 GMT

Does anyone know if the fourth book of Stephen King's "The Dark Tower"
series is due out anytime in the near future?
From: advax@reg.triumf.ca (A.Daviel)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Yet More on Languages in SF&F
Date: 16 Oct 1992 15:27 PDT
Organization: TRIUMF: Tri-University Meson Facility
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: reg.triumf.ca
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

I'll just throw in a mention of Jack Vance's The Languages of Pao.
He plays with the idea that language defines thought, or what kind of thought 
is easy or possible. In the book, people of Pao are periodically oppressed by 
pirates, and their culture is fairly useless at doing anything about it. They
ask the wizards of Breakness for help, who forge a new group of Paonese 
skilled in war by creating a language for them to learn filled with words for 
action and fighting.

Andrew
From: dascoser@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (david serchay)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Forward the Foundation
Date: 15 Oct 92 20:18:44 GMT
Organization: Cybernet BBS, Boca Raton, Florida

jvessey@husc8.harvard.edu (Jonathan Vessey) writes:

> Despite having read science fiction and fantasy for somewhere near half of
> my twenty year old life, I just got around to reading The Foundation Trilogy
> this summer (actually my first Asimov I'd ever read). I liked the books alot,
> though I I liked the trilogy and Prelude (my favorite) more than the last
> two when he started with the Gaea stuff. In the back of the more recent
> books, I saw an advertisment for Forward the Foundation, supposed to fit 
> in between Prelude and the Trilogy. It was supposed to be out in early 1991
> and the books actually had sample chapters from the book. Was it ever release
> What I read of it was quite good, so I hope so. Or was it never released
> because of Isaac's death? Will they ever release what was done? Basically,
> I'm looking for any news since Prelude was my favorite book and I liked what
> I read of Forward the Foundation. Thanks for any information
> 
> Jon.
> -- 
> 						Jon Vessey
>                                                 jvessey@husc.harvard.edu

Acording to a friend at a bookstore, it has been pushed back to A 1993 
release.

Dascoser
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: cain@ics.uci.edu (Timothy Cain)
Subject: Re: _Lord of Light_
Organization: UC Irvine Department of ICS
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 06:54:34 GMT

In <1992Oct8.323556.32434@ghostwheel.dartmouth.edu> takkyon@dartmouth.edu (Dr. Tachyon) writes:

>The subject line describes the subject pretty well.  IMNSHO this is one
>of Zelazny's best books; it's one of my favorite, if not my favorite,
>period, books of all time.  Yet whenever I mention it to SF-loving
>friends, I can't find anyone who's read it.  
>	
>Anyone have any comments on it?  (I think it's been out of print for a
>while now.)  Definitely worth reading, if you can get your hands on it.

_Lord of Light_ is my favorite book, hands down. I have recommended it
to friends, who all seem less than impressed. I think the book's
structure (starts near the end, goes back to the beginning, then jumps
to the end) throws people off, but you can't explain taste. I just
wish that Lord of Light themepark would have been built. What a crazy
idea!

BTW, _LoL_ got me started reading all of the Hugo winners, but none
were as good, IMHO. To give you an idea of my tastes, I had trouble
finishing _Neuromancer_ and _Downbelow Station_ (I thought _Cyteen_
was better), but I loved _Hyperion_ and _A Canticle for Leibowitz_.
-- 
Timothy D. Cain
Department of Information and Computer Science  UC Irvine
                                          cain@ics.uci.edu             (ARPA)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: rsm58307@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Ron M.)
Subject: Re: The Shadow Rising - Robert Jordan **SPOILERS**
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 20:13:54 GMT

The Shadow Rising Discussion

Spoilers below!  




>Some answers:
>1. The Aiel and where they came from.  Anybody think it would be this way?

Yes. I had this nasty suspicion after Perrin met the followers of the Way
of the Leaf. I did not know that the Aiel or the Tuathanan had once served
the Aes Sedai, however. (If it was in the previous books I missed it)

>2. How Shaitan got loose. I had no clue.

Interesting that Lanfear claims responsibility. I was pretty sure they
also said something about the bore being driven through by the use of
Male and Female One Source ability through some incredible Tes'Angrael
or the like.

>Some questions:
>1. Does Rand marry three wives?  Min saw three faces, Elayne, Herself, and
>one unclear one (perhaps - veiled?) (Aviendha, maybe?)

Good question. I don't know what Min & company would say.

>2. What in tarnation happened to Mat inside the ter'angreal in Rhuidean?

Obviously he bargained once more, but just as clearly those he bargained
with were following a different system than with the previous encounter.
I tried rereading that section but they kept saying "Done" at points where
Mat's statements could have been interpreted dozens of ways.

>Who is the daughter of the nine moons?  What is that spear-sword?  How will
>Mat "give up half the light of the world to save the world?" 

The Seanchan had something like that, I believe...
Become blind in one eye?

>(Ah, I just noted that the Court of the Nine Moons is the Seanchan Empress'
>palace?)  This is interesting...

Uh huh.

>3. What will Siuan, Min, and Logain do?  

Find other Aes Sedai. Logain is one BIG ?????
Who and what does he serve? He definitely can't be too pleased with
the Aes Sedai. He might test Rand's faith in Rand being the Dragon,
since Logain for all intents and purposes could have done most of
the things Rand did (of course Rand DID them).

>4. Is Elaida black Ajah?  I was almost certain she wasn't but I can't say
>anymore.  Who killed the girl and the lady at the farm?  

I don't think it matters much. She's bad. I don't know.

>... the list could go on and on.  My head is spinning round but now the
>way is clear to me (that's from a song...) I will buy the next book a year
>from now.  (Why does it have to be a year..... moan, sob, whine.)

The list did go on and on...
(Something really sad: the book after that ...)

>John C. Hansen
>hansen@logdis1.hq.aflc.af.mil		"... I am working on
>cse0080@wsu.bitnet			a suitable quote..."
>cse0080@desire.wright.edu		- John Hansen

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: baylor@nebula.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com
Subject: Re: A tough trivia question...
Reply-To: baylor@nebula.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com
Organization: LMSC, Sunnyvale, California
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 92 16:51:40 GMT

In article <2ADC3A8E.2876@ics.uci.edu>, tittle@ics.uci.edu (Cindy Tittle Moore) writes:
>In <1992Oct14.080807.18226@leland.Stanford.EDU> kocherp@leland.Stanford.EDU (Paul Carl Kocher) writes:
>
>>A friend asked for help with this SF trivia question, and even though I've
>>read a good bit myself, I don't have any answer, so thought I'd see if any
>>netters might have ideas:
>
>>"What popular American sci-fi author parodied the opening lines of
>>a great American novel in one of his books?"
>
>L'Engle, _A Wrinkle In Time_, "It was a dark and stormy night..."
>[or is that a great american novel, grin]
>
Of course it was! Written by Snoopy B. Dog.  
(remembering that Wrinkle is generally considered a children's book,
and *I* heard of Snoopy before Bulwar-Litton)

(be kind to my spelling -- I'm on cold medications)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,rec.arts.sf.movies
From: rob@hoster.eng.ohio-state.edu (Rob Carriere)
Subject: Re: SF Novels That Would Make Great Films
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept of Electrical Engineering
Distribution: rec
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 17:18:35 GMT

>In article <1992Oct15.144651.27650@CERIS.Purdue.EDU> jheath@CERIS.Purdue.EDU
(Jim Heath) writes: 
>>The Moon is a Harsh Mistress
>Great idea actually, it would make an excellent story, and its
>not dated much at all.

Actually, it's _quite_ dated: it assumes we have a colony on the Moon right
now. 

SR
"Sad to say."
---
From: ca572@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark L. Stackpole)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Author/Name of this story...
Date: 15 Oct 1992 16:23:43 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


You are correct about the time period when the story was published,
but the last I heard the author was still British.

Arthur C. Clarke  "All the Time in the World"

Mark_Stackpole@oclc.org
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: williams@herky.cs.uiowa.edu (Kent Williams)
Subject: Re: Elizabeth Hand, Winterlong,Aestival Tide
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 14:26:36 GMT
Organization: University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA

From article <9210121519.AA24315@rutgers.edu>, by CTEAGUE@uvmvm.BITNET (cynthia teague):
> Very funny to see all these messages about Hand; just this morning I
> saw _Winterlong_ and remembered that a friend at work was waiting to
> hear how I liked it.  I thought it was very good until the end, when
> it got too grandiose & predictable.
> 
> It was a hard book to get into; I had to start it two or three times
> before I really got rolling - somewhat like _Soldiers of Paradise_.
> 
If you like Paul Park, you'll love Elizabeth Hand's work.  Her books
have the advantage of being a sort of Palimpsest on the United States -- you
gradually come to recognize Washington DC in 'Winterlong'.  The new
book (or new to me at least) takes place in a huge Ziggurat of a building
built on the site of Indianola Mississippi.

Park's work reminds one of india mostly, but there are a lot of alien
touches. I'm not convinced that he describes a consistent world.
People seem to have tails in the first book, but they never come up
again in the later books.  And he never does come clean on the
space-man as god thing.

Both Park and Hand have diseased imaginations -- if you don't like to
read about decadance, violence and cruelty, stay away.  Of course if you
don't like decadance, violence and cruelty, you shouldn't watch TV either.

Paul Park wins in the less-syllables-in-the-name category ;-)

And of course, the spiritual grandfather of both writers is Mervyn Peake, so
if you haven't read Ghormenghast, do so immediately as you will be quizzed on
it.

--
Kent Williams -- williams@cs.uiowa.edu Work(335-4496) Home(338-6053)
There used to be an inflammatory quote here.
From: lindsay+@cs.cmu.edu (Donald Lindsay)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: "A Fire Upon The Deep" by Vernor Vinge
Date: 14 Oct 92 02:20:42 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon


gdr11@cl.cam.ac.uk (G.D. Rees) writes:
>The evidence is pretty convincing:  Vinge reads Usenet.  But does he
>contribute?  Perhaps more knowledgable posters than myself can answer
>this question.

Sure. Comp.risks had:

>Date: Fri, 25 Sep 92 20:23:31 -0700
>From: Vernor Vinge <vinge%saturn@sdsu.edu>
>Subject: Gordon R. Dickson story "Computers Don't Argue"
>
>The fictional story of a book club hassle escalating to a capital case
>via compounded system errors:
>  "Computers Don't Argue" by Gordon R. Dickson, ANALOG SF&SF Magazine,
>  September 1965, pp.84-94.
	...

Did y'all catch the "zoo" reference in the book - University of
Toronto Zoology by any chance?

-- 
Don		D.C.Lindsay 	Carnegie Mellon Computer Science
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: branwen@cerebus.ccc.amdahl.com (Karen Williams)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Female writers Re: Science Fiction Age
Date: 7 Oct 92 18:20:24 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <1992Oct06.083106.25087@clarinet.com> brad@clarinet.com (Brad Templeton) writes:
>I stand by the statement.   My statement, that 12 of 23 nominees were
>by women (ie. a majority) is not misleading in the context given.

>That context is the presence of awards which are closed to writers without
>a vagina.   If a majority -- ANY majority, slight or overwhelming -- of
>the winners or nominees of a general award have a vagina, then all other
>things being equal, a claim that there is a need for a reverse discrimination
>award is dubious, at least in the year in question.

I think that "in the year in question" may be the most germaine point. What
was the female/male ratio of Hugo nominees in the last ten years? Was this
year a fluke or a trend? Also, what about number of sales figures? How many
stories in the SF magazines were by women? (The most extreme case would be
if there were, say, only six stories and all six of them were nominated.)


--
                                          Karen Williams
                                          branwen@cerebus.ras.amdahl.com
"Don't whine. Warrior women speak in a husky whisper."
  -- Brat Pack #3
From: bjgaed@bb1t.monsanto.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Characters I Hate to Love
Date: 7 Oct 92 08:49:23 CST
Organization: Monsanto Company, St. Louis, MO

[Lengthy argument over attribution of previous posts deleted]

>
>The
>statement I made that started it all was: Remember, evil is
>*supposed* to be more tempting than good.

[Since I have *no idea* who started what, I will only assert that *I* 
didn't say the above, although I agree with it.]

[Stuff about Milton, Shakespeare, etc. deleted.]

My point here is *not* to start a discussion on the nature of good and 
evil, as someone accused in a low-level flame. 
Rather it is to advance the discussion of the rise of 
protagonists in fiction who are at least flawed, sometiomes seriously 
flawed, occasionally downright loathsome, (the "Characters I Hate to 
Love") *when measured against one's own personal moral standards*.  
Yet as much as the reader dislikes the character, or her/his actions, 
the reader finds her/himself at the same time caring about the 
character, liking the character, pulling for the character to prevail, 
or at least survive.

I maintain that this is because such characters have much in common 
with the reader.  Mainstream literature, as was cited previously, from 
the Greeks, through Milton, to Shakespeare, to the present day, has 
known this. Thus, the works which have survived are largely those 
which feature protagonists with such traits.  Sf started out as the 
opposite--mainly very simplistic melodramas, with one-dimensional 
characters and stories where good prevails.  As the genre has matured
the characters have taken on more dimensions, and writers have begun 
to explore the darker dimensions of our species.

This is probably due to both the increasing maturity of the sf readers 
and the sf writers.  People *do* buy books with flawed characters.  
Each vote for this trend costs $4-$5 minimum.  At the same time 
writers are maturing in their craft.

I derive these views from my own experience and from my observation of 
other people.  Thus they are probably very biased.  I would like to 
hear other possible explanations for this trend.

--Electric Monk            (Bruce Gaede); 
                            e-mail: bjgaed@ccmail.monsanto.com

"...and then time started seriously to pass."
--Douglas Adams, _Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency_
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written