HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: modes
From: phoogenboom@eagle.wesleyan.edu
Date: 12 Apr 92 16:05:09 EDT
Organization: Wesleyan University

In article <1992Apr10.140949.16139@gould.encore.com>, bseymour@encore.com (Burch Seymour) writes:
> 
> I'm unclear on a technical point here, perhaps someone can enlighten me.
> My choir is doing a piece keyed with 5 flats, this would normally
> be D-flat Major or B-flat Minor. However, this one is based on a 
> really old tune, and the notes start and end on F. This is a major
> third above D-flat, thus the notation printed on the music which
> calls it a phrygian mode tune (or something like that, I don't have
> it right in front of me). 
> 
> My technical question, should you decide to play, is: How does one
> name that "key". Is it D-flat, phrgian mode? Just phrygian mode, and
> the "key" isn't mentioned? or What?
> 
> On a similar note (ha ha) could one call B-flat minor, D-flat, aeolian
> mode? 
> 
> Generically speaking, how does one notate the relation of key and mode
> in a modal piece?

Major and minor are themselves mode indications; the mode indicates the scale
of notes being used.  You see that d-flat major and b-flat minor have the same
scale.  e-flat dorian, f phrygian, g-flat lydian, and a-flat mixolydian share
this scale.  So does c locrian.  Aeolian and Ionian are for most purposes the
same as minor and major.  
	Thus, when naming a key or mode, the note name given indicates the
tonic and the mode name indicates where the notes are distributed from octave
to octave.  There are actually more implications than that if one gets into
monophonic modal music (ie church modes) but I do not have the time now!

Peter Hoogenboom
phoogenb@ucs.indiana.edu
phoogenb@iubacs.bitnet
From: amadeus@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Susan Harwood Kaczmarczik)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Beethoven (this is not meant to be racist)
Date: 8 Apr 92 13:29:07 GMT
Organization: University of Texas at Austin


Kevin T. Stiner writes:

>     My father is a music teacher at a middle school in Indianapolis and  
>one of his colleagues told him something about Beethoven having black  
>relatives or ancestors (or something).  Is this true?  He wanted me to put  
>the question into rec.music.classical because a large amount of his other  
>questions have been answered here.  Could someone please relay the whole  
>story whether true or not to me???  I am kind of curious as to the answer  
>myself.  Again, this is not meant to be a racist question.

Racist to whom?  Blacks?  Germans?  Beethoven?

This is not a racist question.  Unfortunately all I know about it is
what I read in a Peanuts strip from @20 years ago:

Scenario:  Schroeder and Lucy at the piano; Lucy is reading a book.
Lucy:  "It says here that some scholars feel that Beethoven was black."
[pause]
Schroeder: "Does that mean that for all these years I've been playing
'soul' music?"

Obnoxious as this may be, it does let us know that this theory has not
sprung up overnight.  Now a Beethoven scholar will have to take over.

>                                    Thank you very much,
>                                    Kevin T. Stiner


-- 
-----Susan Harwood Kaczmarczik-------------------------------*<:-)-------------
"Queens never make bargains."  -- The Red Queen, _Through the Looking Glass_
-----amadeus@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu--------------The University of Texas @Austin---
From: sasghm@theseus.unx.sas.com (Gary Merrill)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: government and the arts
Date: 15 Apr 92 13:26:39 GMT
    <1992Apr14.130807.5172@unx.sas.com> 
    <1992Apr14.151259.1@camins.camosun.bc.ca>
Distribution: na
Organization: SAS Institute Inc.
Originator: sasghm@theseus.unx.sas.com
X-Bytes: 1409

In article <1992Apr14.151259.1@camins.camosun.bc.ca>, dbarker@camins.camosun.bc.ca writes:
|> In article <1992Apr14.130807.5172@unx.sas.com>, sasghm@theseus.unx.sas.com (Gary Merrill) writes:
|> > *government* shouldn't be doing the funding of any of this stuff.
|> 
|> Can I ask who _should_ be funding this stuff then? Do you consider
|> that only art which is popular enough to sell deserves to be created?

No.  But it doesn't follow that *I* should be compelled to pay for its
development.  I certainly don't feel justified in compelling *others*
to pay for it.  (Never mind what "deserves to be created" means here!)

If I feel strongly about creating my art, then I might just feel
strongly enough to support that creation by myself.  Such a novel
idea!

|> Do you think that private enterprise should be doing the funding?

This is one possibility, and in fact this is sometimes the case.  It
might also be necessary for the artist to do *something else* (either
temporarily or part-time) to suppor the creation of art that he
can't convince anyone else to support.  

|> I can't imagine that if Stravinsky had had corporate sponsors they
|> would have stuck with him after the debacle of The Rite of Spring.

So?

-- 
Gary H. Merrill  [Principal Systems Developer, C Compiler Development]
SAS Institute Inc. / SAS Campus Dr. / Cary, NC  27513 / (919) 677-8000
sasghm@unx.sas.com ... !mcnc!sas!sasghm
From: mls@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (mike.siemon)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: _The Love for Three Oranges_
Summary: cheap association
Keywords: Dum-da dum dum DAAAAH!
Date: 14 Apr 92 23:10:52 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Apr14.185706.25657@Princeton.EDU>, roger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU
(Roger Lustig) writes:

> Funny, isn't it, having a Soviet composer supply the tune ad majoram
> gloriam J. Edgarem Hooverem...

yep; there is also the odd quirk that because of the tune, the title
of the show always sounds in my mind as "The FBI in Love and War." :-)

-- 
Michael L. Siemon		   "Oh, stand, stand at the window,
					As the tears scald and start;
mls@usl.com			   You shall love your crooked neighbor
standard disclaimer			With your crooked heart."
From: dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu (David M Tate)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Theme in Handel and Mozart
Date: 17 Apr 92 15:47:49 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <1992Apr17.043901.15351@Princeton.EDU> roger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig (I knew he'd come through)) writes:
>
>The idea of Handel the unimaginative orchestrator is enough to send me
>reeling.  

>For one thing, the oboes only SOMETIMES double the first violins, and
>Handel, the master of the Baroque orchestra, knew exactly when to use
>them, and when not to.

>Next, look at the variety of textures in the violin section.  

...including the contrast between those passages intended to played by a
small coterie of section-leaders, vs. those passages where everyone plays.
If you have a decent edition, there should be little "con Rip." and "senza
Rip." notations all over the place.  

Of course, standard practice these days is to ignore all of that.

Conjecture: *anyone* can be made to sound like a rotten orchestrator if you
ignore enough of his/her directions, make drastic changes in the size and
composition of the forces, and substitute radically different "modern" 
versions of all the instruments for the ones the composer was writing for...

-- 
          David M. Tate            |"The man who hath no music in himself
     dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu       | Nor is not moved by concord of sweet sound
  A poem should be dumb, / As old  | Is fit for treason, stratagems, and spoils
 medallions to the thumb.-MacLeish | 	Shakespeare, "Merchant of Venice", A.V
From: cbullin@athena.mit.edu (Carrie L Bullington)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Cheryl Studer was Re: Kathleen Battle; other sopranos
Date: 9 Apr 92 18:19:31 GMT
Article-I.D.: athena.1992Apr9.181931.5731
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

In article <28759@brahms.udel.edu> conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad) writes:

>  Ruth Ann Swenson ...She is to be in the new
>production of "Ariadne auf Naxos" at the Met next season...
>but on reflection she's probably doing Zerbinetta.  

She will be singing Zerbinetta, a role I believe she has had success
with already in Europe.  Ruth Ann came up throught the ranks of the
Merola program at the San Francisco Opera Center.  Then she was an
Adler Fellow there before a big break appearing opposite Marilyn Horne
in Gluck's "Orfeo" in Paris.

>  Kallen Esperian (assuming that's who you meant) is a student of a
>friend of mine, and a friend of good (local) friends.  It's a beautiful
>voice, full-bodied and dark while still being youthful....

Agreed; it's a lovely voice.

>all over with great success.  Pavarotti (whose Philadelphia competition
>she won in the early 80s) and Domingo both love to do that opera with
>her, and have often recommended her to managements.  She has also had

IMO, she was the one of the best things about the latest Pavarotti
Plus special.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: rodrigue@CS.Yale.Edu
Subject: buying harpsichord
Organization: Computer Science, Yale University, New Haven, CT 06520-2158
Distribution: rec
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 07:11:08 GMT

How much is a decent harpsichord?  Where should I look for one?  There used to
be kits available, is this a terrible idea?  Thanks.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: pdelafos@djulien.dsd.es.com (Peter Delafosse)
Subject: Re: Mahler on disc
Reply-To: pdelafos@djulien.dsd.es.com (Peter Delafosse)
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp., Salt Lake City, UT
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 92 19:14:42 GMT

Deryk Barker writes:

> ... Some devotees of the late Leonard
> Bernstein have even suggested that it took a conductor of his
> persuasive advocacy to convince people of the worth of the
> music; but this ignores, unfairly I believe, the sterling
> efforts of the previous generation of Mahler conductors (Walter,
> Klemperer, Horenstein, Mitropolous) who had spent so long as
> lone voices crying in the wilderness.

Can Maurice Abravanel be added to the list of lone voices? I believe he
was conducting Mahler before Bernstein's "discovery."

Also, do the majority of Mahler recordings stay in print? I tend to buy 
recordings of music not readily available on the radio or in concerts and 
have been frustrated many times at the speed with which some recordings are
deleted.

Peter DeLafosse


Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: mccombt@cs.rpi.edu (Todd McComb)
Subject: Re: rec.music.classical FAQ
Organization: Rensselaer Mathematics Dept., Troy NY
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 01:06:30 GMT

Regarding 20th century composition, isn't this list heavy on americans
and a certain set at that?  Or am I simply wrong about global opinion on
their relative merit?

An impressive compilation nonetheless.

-- 
Todd McComb                             mccombt@turing.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.1.1]
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dbarker@camins.camosun.bc.ca
Subject: Re: government and the arts
Organization: Camosun College
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 23:12:59 GMT

In article <1992Apr14.130807.5172@unx.sas.com>, sasghm@theseus.unx.sas.com (Gary Merrill) writes:
> *government* shouldn't be doing the funding of any of this stuff.

Can I ask who _should_ be funding this stuff then? Do you consider
that only art which is popular enough to sell deserves to be created?
Do you think that private enterprise should be doing the funding?
I can't imagine that if Stravinsky had had corporate sponsors they
would have stuck with him after the debacle of The Rite of Spring.
Government funding of the arts may well be an imperfect solution, but
I can't think of a better one.
-- 
Deryk Barker
Computer Science Dept.
Camosun College,
Victoria, BC
Canada
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: bseymour@encore.com (Burch Seymour)
Subject: a question about modes
Organization: Encore Computer Corporation
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 14:09:49 GMT


I'm unclear on a technical point here, perhaps someone can enlighten me.
My choir is doing a piece keyed with 5 flats, this would normally
be D-flat Major or B-flat Minor. However, this one is based on a 
really old tune, and the notes start and end on F. This is a major
third above D-flat, thus the notation printed on the music which
calls it a phrygian mode tune (or something like that, I don't have
it right in front of me). 

My technical question, should you decide to play, is: How does one
name that "key". Is it D-flat, phrgian mode? Just phrygian mode, and
the "key" isn't mentioned? or What?

On a similar note (ha ha) could one call B-flat minor, D-flat, aeolian
mode? 

Generically speaking, how does one notate the relation of key and mode
in a modal piece?

-Burch Seymour- bseymour@encore.com
=======================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dbrooks@osf.org (David Brooks)
Subject: Re: Tunes from childhood
Followup-To: rec.music.classical
Reply-To: dbrooks@osf.org (David Brooks)
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 04:56:15 GMT

dbarker@camins.camosun.bc.ca writes:
>In article <1992Apr9.153322.172@athena.mit.edu>, syliao@athena.mit.edu (S Yi-Huang Liao) writes:
>> I have noticed two tunes from childhood that resembled motifs of two
>> pieces from the "classical repertoire":
>> 
>> "Are you sleeping, brother John" sounds like the third movement from Mahler's
>> first symphony, except that the former is in a major key.
>
>Mahler based this movement on the German nursery rhyme "Bruder Martin" the minor
>key equivalent of Frere Jacques.

I have heard it claimed, probably spuriously, that Mahler made the tune
minor to depict his own unhappy childhood.  It's certainly a very sad setting.

>> Are these pure coincidences??  Are there any other instances like the above?

As all Trivial Pursuit experts know, Mozart wrote "Twinkle, Twinkle Little
Star". :-) The tune, actually "Ah, vous dirai-je, maman" has a happy
history of being variated on.  Try Dohnanyi's Variations on a Nursery Theme.

Grace Williams and Roger Quilter wrote actual suites based on nursery
music.

-- 
David Brooks				dbrooks@osf.org
Systems Engineering, OSF		uunet!osf.org!dbrooks
From: ray@gawain.cif.rochester.edu (Raymond Sunessen Tuttle)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Memorable (?) cover art.
Date: 15 Apr 92 00:20:21 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester (Rochester, NY)

In writing a review of "The Bach Album" and smirking gently over the cover
photograph, which appears to show Kathleen Battle sticking her head out of a
large yellow tulip (yes yes I know, this is FASHION), I started thinking
about some famous and infamous record jackets from the past.

I remember seeing an LP of a Schubert Trio (Op. 100, I think) played by three
Carmelite (?) nuns.  Something tells me this was on Capitol Records. The
sight of three hefty nuns, clad in white habits, sitting at their instruments
and playing this unearthly music was unforgettable. Does anyone remember this
cover photograph? (It reminds me of the end of Hitchcock's "Vertigo")

What about the painting on the RCA Victor issue of Tchaikovsky's "Pathetique"
played by Ormandy with the Philadelphia Orchestra? (I mean the album of
78 rpm's). The painting was of a white-robed figure descending a staircase
from a lurid orange light into a doom-filled dark gloom. I've had nightmares
about this ever since I've seen it.

And what about those wacky Westminster Gold issues from the 70's? Does anyone
remember covers for their Ring Cycle? I think "Die Walkure" had a photograph
on the cover showing a pigtailed blonde woman shielding her breasts with the
hubcaps from a Volkswagon.

Is there anyone else out there who has weird and wonderful memories of
LP covers?

--
Ray and his two     "Dunkel ist das Leben, ist der Tod,"
little white mice,   but it's nothing to get depressed about.
named Ursula and
Gudrun. *******************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: jansen@yeti.tcs.com (David Jansen)
Subject: Re: _The Love for Three Oranges_
Organization: Teknekron Communications, Inc
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 19:41:49 GMT

In article <1992Apr13.180443.24541@athena.mit.edu>, pesetsk@athena.mit.edu (David M Pesetsky) writes:
> In article <1992Apr13.162609.5565@Princeton.EDU> roger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig) writes:
> >In article <1992Apr13.151242.6003@athena.cas.vanderbilt.edu>
> > dkmenser@athena.cas.vanderbilt.edu (Kirk Menser) writes:
> >>I have read that the march from Prokofiev's TLFTO was used as the
> >>theme for a popular television series.  Does anyone know which
> >>series?
> >
> >The FBI, of course!  (On radio, too, I believe.)
> >
> >TRIVIA: what other connection with "classical" music does that show
> >have?  (Easy for some of us...)
> 
> Efrem Zimbalist [JS]r.
> 
> And what about "Hogan's Heroes"?
> 
> -David Pesetsky

Verner's dad was Otto

- DJ
From: efosbroo@zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk (Elisabeth Fosbrooke)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Any good pre-Baroque compilations?
Date: 16 Apr 92 11:51:16 GMT
Reply-To: efosbroo@zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk
Organization: British Telecom Labs

From article <1992Apr13.171245.23112@wpi.WPI.EDU>, by martino@wpi.WPI.EDU (Robert Paul Martino Jr):
> I was wondering if anyone knew of any good pre-baroque CD sets or something
> like that that are available, I've recently been getting into guys like
> Monteverdi, Scarlatti, Bonelli, etc. (gee I wonder if any of them are 
> Italian) whose music really fascinates me, there's something different
> about these composers that make them sound different than Bach, Handel, etc.
> Sorry if I sound like I don't know much about classical music, I'm only
> vaguely familiar with different eras like Romantic, Baroque, etc.  Any
> other good pre-Baroque stuff appreciated also. Thanks!
> 
> Rob
> 
> -- 
> Rob Martino                          |     (clever or particularly funny
> martino@wpi.wpi.edu                  |      philosophical quote here)

This is a vast field of glorious recordings too numerous to mention.

Suggestions

Get hold of a Harmonia Mundi catalogue:
	3364 South Robertson Blvd
	Los Angeles CA 90034
	Tel: 213.559.08.02

Other labels are Hyperion and Gimmell

Read rec.music.early

Elisabeth
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dbarker@camins.camosun.bc.ca
Subject: Jascha Horenstein - help requested
Organization: Camosun College
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 20:21:45 GMT

I am currently preparing a discography of the great, and greatly underrated,
conductor Jascha Horenstein. I am trying to track down every issue of
every recording he made, so if anyone has any of his recordings I should
be very grateful for the following info:
	Composer, Title, Artists, Label, Catalogue Number
together with any dates (recording, publication) which may appear.

If you are unfamiliar with this conductor's work then I must just tell
you that his Mahler and Bruckner were unsurpassed.

Thanks in advance to all those who provide info. By e-mail please to:
	dbarker@camins.camosun.bc.ca

-- 
Deryk Barker
Computer Science Dept.
Camosun College,
Victoria, BC
Canada
From: mthorn@madvax.uop.edu (Charlie's enormous mouth)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: FCC Deregulation? Re: Sorry State of Classical Radio
Date: 7 Apr 1992 02:19:54 UTC
Reply-To: mthorn@madvax.uop.edu
Distribution: na
Organization: University of the Pacific, Stockton, CA

Regarding the "sorry state of classical radio:"

I work at an NPR affiliate (KUOP), and the guy who does our Morning Classics
show has an immense CD collection.  Huge, just unbelievably huge.  But when
it comes time for the "feature work" (I'm not sure exactly what he calls it,
but he plays some major work in its entirety once a week), he just recycles
about the same ten or fifteen CD's.  It doesn't matter how many times our
station manager (or anyone else) tells him to play something new, he just 
plays the same stuff over and over.  It's very annoying.  Since he's a 
volunteer, the station doesn't want to let him go.  

AARGH.

Of course, the jazz programming at our station helps make up for this...

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Thorn / mthorn@madvax.uop.edu 
"Colonel Sanders wants to goose Granny's loose caboose
 He's gonna give her a boost with that Kentucky fried juice"
					--Mr. Bungle
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dbarker@camins.camosun.bc.ca
Subject: Re: Tunes from childhood
Organization: Camosun College
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 01:38:21 GMT

In article <1992Apr9.153322.172@athena.mit.edu>, syliao@athena.mit.edu (S Yi-Huang Liao) writes:
> I have noticed two tunes from childhood that resembled motifs of two
> pieces from the "classical repertoire":
> 
> "Are you sleeping, brother John" sounds like the third movement from Mahler's
> first symphony, except that the former is in a major key.

Mahler based this movement on the German nursery rhyme "Bruder Martin" the minor
key equivalent of Frere Jacques.

> Are these pure coincidences??  Are there any other instances like the above?

Probably hundreds....

Deryk Barker
Computer Science Dept.
Camosun College,
Victoria, BC
Canada
From: rickertj@athena.cas.vanderbilt.edu (John Rickert)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Theme in Handel and Mozart
Date: 14 Apr 92 20:06:19 GMT
Reply-To: rickertj@athena.cas.vanderbilt.edu.UUCP (John Rickert)
Organization: Mathematics, Vanderbilt University, Nashville


   In Handel's _Messiah_ the theme in the chorus "And with His stripes
we are healed" is the same as one of the subjects in the "Kyrie" of the
Mozart _Requiem_.  Is it known for certain whether Mozart was deliberately
quoting Handel, or did he just coincidentally use the same theme?


John Rickert					Mentem mortalia tangunt.
rickertj@athena.cas.vanderbilt.edu			-- Vergil
From: aldrich@leland.Stanford.EDU (James Dunbar Aldrich-Moodie)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Bartok String Quartets -- HELP
Date: 17 Apr 92 20:47:49 GMT
Article-I.D.: leland.1992Apr17.204749.1851
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA

In article <1992Apr17.200014.21452@athena.mit.edu> ridgway@athena.mit.edu (Lee Ridgway) writes:

>The classic recording of these is by the Juilliard Quartet (actually, I think
>they recorded them twice). I don't know if the Juilliard versions are out on
>CD.  Also, I thought the Emerson had recorded these a few years ago for 
>Nonesuch, and received rave reviews.

The Emerson recording is on DG and is fantastic.  This quartet has been, for
me at least, monumentally frustrating in anything else they have recorded
(I've heard them in Haydn, Mozart, Schubert, and Beethoven), but these 
performances are definitely tops.

James
_______________
James Aldrich-Moodie
aldrich@leland.stanford.edu
From: hsmoliar+@cs.cmu.edu (Harold Smoliar)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: _The Love for Three Oranges_
Date: 13 Apr 92 18:25:29 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

In article <1992Apr13.162609.5565@Princeton.EDU> roger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig) writes:
>In article <1992Apr13.151242.6003@athena.cas.vanderbilt.edu>
> dkmenser@athena.cas.vanderbilt.edu (Kirk Menser) writes:
>>I have read that the march from Prokofiev's TLFTO was used as the
>>theme for a popular television series.  Does anyone know which
>>series?
>
>The FBI, of course!  (On radio, too, I believe.)
>
>TRIVIA: what other connection with "classical" music does that show
>have?  (Easy for some of us...)
>
>Roger


Esp. those of us who went to Curtis.  You are of course refering to our former
director's son Efrem Z. Jr.
Harold
hsmoliar@db1.speech.cs.cmu.edu