HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: lang@cs.tulane.edu (Raymond Lang)
Subject: Re:      Re: condemnation of homosexual acts is (un)necessary...
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-19599]: jupiter
Organization: Computer Science Dept., Tulane Univ., New Orleans, LA
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 14:48:56 GMT


In article <9301271911.AA02646@enet-gw.pa.dec.com>,         "Greg Wolff, MISG, ICS::, MSO1-1/J50" <wolff@ICS.ENET.DEC.COM> writes:
>     J.J. (URSIC@ASTRO.CS.HH.AB.COM) writes:
> >So as long as they keep their ACTs between themselves and God, why should
> >we show more concern for homosexual acts than we do for heterosexual
> >acts performed out of wedlock.
> 
>     The Church does not show more concern about the one over the other.
>     The Church teaches that either will estrange a soul from God eternally
>     if not repented of in this life.  She is equally concerned about both.

No, as a matter of fact, she's not.  The Vatican recommends that
practicing homosexuals be discriminated against in a number of
areas, while they make no such recommendation against those performing
heterosexual acts out of wedlock.

Ray Lang
lang@cs.tulane.edu
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
From: creps@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Stephen A. Creps)
Subject: Re:      Re: The tragic tale of a moral theologian.
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 20:51:33 GMT

In article <930125140524.20200678@ASTRO.CS.HH.AB.COM> URSIC@ASTRO.CS.HH.AB.COM writes:
>Stephen Barr <15942@BRAHMS.UDEL.EDU> writes:
>>      Close, JJ, but no cigar. :-). Steve.
>Good thing! I suppose I should confess that the ONLY reason why I am on this
>list is because I needed a substitute for the time I used to while away at
>smoking. When I quit 14 months ago, the net provided a satifying substitute
>for my addictive cravings. One bad habit for another, I suppose:-) -J.J.

   J.J., I think Freud said, "Sometimes a mailing list is just a
mailing list."

-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
Steve Creps, Indiana University
creps@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
From: wbs@vax.oxford.ac.uk (Brian Stewart)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Subject: Re: Anglicans,Divorce, and Royalty
Date: 22 Jan 93 18:37:12 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620

In article <1993Jan21.040032.3016@news.nd.edu>, jocallag@artin.helios.nd.edu (john ocallaghan) writes:
> I am hoping to get some information from our Anglican friends out there.
> I read recently, I don't remember where, that an Anglican bishop, either
> on behalf of or in concurrence with the Archbishop of Canterbury, stated in 
> the House of Lords that divorce and remarriage on the part of the Prince of
> Wales would not bar him from serving as 
>head 
>of the Church of England.
> 
> Can anyone confirm this statement.
> 
>
>[...omission] 
> Peace,
> John

I think you read this, but it is inconceivable the ABC or any of the english
bishops said it. The reigning monarch is Supreme Governor of the english
church; definitely NOT head. That position is already filled; see the NT.

So what is probably true is that there is no legal impediment to a remarried
divorcee being or becoming monarch; and if (s)he did then (s)he is Supreme
Governor. 

What's the problem?


B.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Date:         Thu, 28 Jan 1993 11:18:54 -0500
From:         URSIC@BEAST.CS.HH.AB.COM
Subject:      RE: PREGNANCY

"John R. Covert 28-Jan-1993 1020" <covert@COVERT.ENET.DEC.COM> writes:
>>As a devout catholic women I had NO reservations about having an abortion at
>>6 months into my pregnancy.
>At SIX MONTHS!!!  Do you know what you killed?

I would suspect that the initial post was a ruse, in the event that it was
really from an Eileen in a lot of pain over her actions, I seriously doubt
that starting off by screaming at her will help her see your point. Of
course, it may make you feel better. Just my opinion.

> What a horrible thing to do!

John, this is a Catholic list, not the outside of a clinic.
...but look who's talking:-) - J.J.
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Date:         Tue, 26 Jan 1993 14:32:09 -0500
From:         URSIC@ASTRO.CS.HH.AB.COM
Subject:      Re: directions

Edward Harbin <eharbin@CONVEX.COM> writes:

>Those of us who take traditional stands don't feel particularly sealed
>off from conflict. To the contrary, if you really want to get beaten
>about the head and shoulders, expresss reservations about the regnant
>point of view today, which is implacably 'progressive.' Here's a test:
>you're from Harvard, a center of enlightenment. Stand up in a public place
>first opposing abortion, then supporting it. See which position draws
>the brickbats....

Some more 'tests';
How about if someone were to go on public TV and rip up a picture of
the Pope, would that get a public outcry more to your liking?
Or what about publically supporting good-old Adolph, what side gets
the "brickbats"?

Hmmm, seems to be a pattern, extremists don't get much support no
matter what the cause. Perhaps the public prefers "middle-of-the-road"
type positions. Not that I would ever suggest that any of the Church's
positions are "extreme" to us Catholics, just that to the general
public they may seem extreme. Wat'cha think:-) - J.J.
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Date:         Mon, 25 Jan 1993 12:02:27 MST
From:         mlj@EVOLVING.COM
Subject:      Re: The tragic tale of a moral theologian.
              93 6:09 pm

Agreed,
>
>       Close, JJ, but no cigar. :-). Steve.
>
Michael Johns.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
From: creps@nickel.ucs.indiana.edu (Steve Creps)
Subject: Re: condemnation of homosexual acts is (un)necessary...
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 18:21:42 GMT

In article <C1I2BF.FyC@NCoast.ORG> aiden@NCoast.ORG (Steven Otlowski) writes:
>In article <9301261417.AA132672@oldgwenbnc> mlj@EVOLVING.COM writes:
>>
>>         Let's assume, for a moment ( and a moment only :-) ), that the "Spirit"
>> > is calling on us to set aside yet another of our prejudices
>>
>>How would you explain the Burst of insanity that the "Spirit" would move/stir
>>the hearts of men to engage in an act that is detrimental and non-productive
>>to the human race?
>
>I know a number of homosexual couples who are involved in monagomous
>loving relationships.  They are church goers and are active on a civic
>level.  
>
>I find it hard to describe them as "detrimental" or "non-productive"
>to the human race.
>
>I fail to see the damage done by any relationship founded in love
>and mutual respect.
>
>Perhaps you should invest more than (a moment only :-) )  and search 
>that inner part of yourself where the Spirit speaks to the hearts of
>mankind.  

   This poster seems to be saying that homosexual acts are not sinful,
and that the Holy Spirit leads him and others to this belief.

   It's dangerous to attribute to the Holy Spirit that sinful acts are
in fact not sinful.  Especially when one is claiming that one knows
better than the Church which Jesus promised would have the Holy Spirit
to protect her from error.  If you are wrong it could very well be
blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
Steve Creps, Indiana University
creps@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Date:         Fri, 22 Jan 1993 14:45:18 -0600
From:         Joel Neisen <joel@MSC.EDU>
Subject:      RE: The Real Presence

J.J. writes:
> Changing bread and wine into flesh is not so unbelievable as our
> own bodies do it all the time. That God would single out this
> particular priest for this spontaneous event, and also chose to
> make it a piece of His heart (how romantic) seems a bit far-fetched.

I am vaguely familiar with this, so someone may want to help me out.
But God choosing this priest wasn't radom (as far as we are concerned).
Rather, at the time there were all sorts of differing thoughts
on whatwas happening to the bread and wine, and this particular
priest was experiencing some doubts, and so had been praying that
he might come to know the truth in this matter.

Joel Neisen                              joel@msc.edu
Minnesota Supercomputer Center          "Mock not the worn cloak"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
From: bdboyle@erenj.com (Bryan D. Boyle)
Subject: Re: condemnation of homosexual acts is (un)necessary... 
Organization: Exxon Research and Engineering Co., NJ
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 13:26:57 GMT

In article <C1GFD0.9Lx@NCoast.ORG> aiden@NCoast.ORG (Steven Otlowski) writes:
>>>>     Thus, in this climate, we need to affirm in the public forum what the
>>>>     Church teaches about sexuality and that what the Church teaches is the
>>>>     Truth.
>>>
>>>Some of what the Vatican teaches is the Truth.  Some of it isn't.  What
>>>they teach about homosexuality isn't.
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>
>>And to what do you attribute this startling revelation?  The misinformed
>>judgement of ex-catholics or protestant theologians, or homosexual
>>activists, or the media, or _your_own_opinion_?  
>>
>
>Have you ever considered the possibility of the Spirit 
>moving in the hearts of the people?
>
>At one time slavery was commonly accepted as a part of the culture 
>of the time.
>
>Later people realized that slavery was an evil, and the Spirit prompted
>them to do something about that.
>
>Have you ever considered that maybe, just maybe, the Spirit
>is calling on us to set aside yet another of our prejudices?
>
Yeah, I've thought about it.  I just don't put much creedence into 
the argument that since our society condones an act, in fact, has 
raised homosexual activity to the status of a protected right (de
facto), that the Church has to accept or bend to the popular will.  
The Church and Christ call me to live in peace and harmony with all
men (or people, if you have to be politically correct), but does not
call me to to accept sinful or explicitly forbidden behavior.  Note 
the use of the term behavior.  I am unmarried.  I am called, since 
I am unmarried, to lead a chaste lifestyle.  If I participate in sexual
activity outside of the marriage bond, it is a sin.  Has nothing to 
do whether I am in love with a woman, or dating a woman, or just want
to "jump her bones".  It is wrong.  No situational ethics here.

The Church does not call for anyone to condemn homosexuals.  THey are 
people, deserving of our love.  It does, however, call us to condemn 
homosexual activity, just as it condemns extramarital sexual activity.
No difference.  No homophobia, or whatever else the popular agenda 
says there is.  You can raise all sorts of smoke screens, or complaints,
or whatever else you want to.  But trying to force a secular reasoning
for why something should be accepted by the Church, when people reject
the Church's reasoning of secular issues in return, is inconsistent
and hypocritical on the part of society as a whole and people as
individuals taking that position.

The Church can no further accept a contradictory or inconsistent stand
that anyone else can, nor should she be forced to or expected to.



-- 
\   Bryan D. Boyle            \           _         ______ |
 \  Senior Engineer            \        /   \___-=0`/|0`/__|
  \ Exxon Research & Engineering\_______   N7068W  / | /    )
  / 908 730-3338                /        `/-==__ _/__|/__=-|
From: mjsmith@cac.washington.edu (Martha Smith )
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Subject: Re: Edward Schileebeecx (sp?) writings
Date: 25 Jan 1993 20:03:46 GMT
Organization: UW Computing
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: redx.cac.washington.edu
Keywords: Does anybody know E. Schileebeecx leanings ?

A major contemporary theologian well worth reading; liberal in bent and often
going further than I would be willing to but very thought provoking.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Date:         Fri, 22 Jan 1993 11:35:42 -0500
Reply-To:     esler@apollo.hp.com
From:         esler@APOLLO.HP.COM
Subject:      RE: The Real Presence

URSIC@ASTRO.CS.HH.AB.COM writes:
    >
    > Not only that, but with advances in medical science, the actual second
    > coming of Christ, may be in that of a clone. - J.J.
    >

Coincidentally, I'm currently reading a book called "Honk if you are
Jesus", by Peter Goldsworthy.  It is a novel about an attempt to track
down, via relics, the DNA of Jesus, and then to clone Him.  Not a bad
read...

--
Kevin Esler //hewlett-packard/cso/stg/std/clo/mll (MA Language Lab)
esler@apollo.hp.com   (508) 436-5979
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Date:         Thu, 28 Jan 1993 08:08:39 PST
From:         "John R. Covert 28-Jan-1993 1044" <covert@COVERT.ENET.DEC.COM>
Subject: Re: Celibacy oath

>This is why I thought the priest underwent laicizaition.
>(Someone please correct me if I am wrong.)  After laicization the
>priest may marry but is not allowed to exercise his Orders.

I'm not sure what you mean by "laicization".  I don't think that a
priest can be turned into a layperson; Holy Orders cannot be undone.

Now, a bishop can ordered a priest to cease to exercise his priestly
functions within a diocese unter that bishop's control, but the priest
remains a priest.

Another bishop can reauthorize the priest to perform priestly duties.

/john
Xref: sparky bit.listserv.catholic:4523 alt.activism:21448
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.geodesic
Date:         Wed, 27 Jan 1993 13:11:26 EDT
              <GEODESIC@UBVM.BITNET>
From:         "Trimtab (Blaine A." <BDAMICO@GWUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Dymaxion maps

I agree that this kind of exposure is better than no exposure but it also
demons
trates why Fuller was so fanatical in enforcing his patents.  Exhibition withou
t attribution is a cardinal sholarly sin and even more so when the exhibitor is
 an institution like a museum.  Since the dymaxion map is just one of the myria
d results of Fullers nontraditional problem solving methods and since it was th
e only Map patent awarded in the 20th century, visitors to the center should ha
ve the benifit of knowing who to look up for further information.

--Trimtab--   Universe to each must be
              All that is, including me
              Environment in turn must be
              All that is, excepting me.
                                     RBF
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Date:         Thu, 28 Jan 1993 11:02:30 +0100
              <GEODESIC@UBVM.BITNET>
From:         Solan <solan@MATH.UIO.NO>
Subject:      Quote of the week

In New York Review, Dec. 3 1992; A-Symmetry by Martin Gardner is
quoted from Golubitsky:

"A new form of the element carbon, known as "Buckminsterfullerene"
after the famous architect, has recently been discovered: it has 60
carbon atoms, arranged at the vertices of a truncated icosahedron.
Although designed to human specification, it's proving unusually
stable, and is believed to exist naturally in interstellar space."

Solan
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Date:         Wed, 27 Jan 1993 13:21:59 EDT
              <GEODESIC@UBVM.BITNET>
From:         "Trimtab (Blaine A." <BDAMICO@GWUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: About the floating domes...
              20 Jan 1993 23:13:54 EST from <dionf@ERE.UMONTREAL.CA>

Start by reading Critical Path by Fuller.  There is a chapter that talks about
Fuller's alternative cities including the floating city.  I will send more refe
rnces later.
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Date:         Wed, 27 Jan 1993 13:58:59 -0500
              <GEODESIC@UBVM.BITNET>
From:         George Spack - AACRAO <spackg%aacrao.dnet@NCHEMAIL.NCHE.EDU>
Subject:      Meeting RBF in Person & List of books.

------------------------ Begin Message -----------------------
All,

I met Bucky in the early 70's at The University of Pittsburgh at Johnstown.
My Mother, who was attending there at the time, took me to see & perhaps meet a
great scientist (no doubt trying to influence my career goals.) I was just a
bit too young to understand what he was talking about, but he made an impact
upon my mind that developed into a love for science. My Mom purchased a book of
his, Utopia or Oblivion - The prospects for humanity, and took me over to meet
him after the speech. He signed it for me "Best Wishes George, R. Buckminster
Fuller."

This book is now one of my most treasured possesions.

I did enter the field of science and majored in Electrical Engineering. I am
now running several computer systems (or are they are running me?) in DC.

Does anyone have a "complete" listing of his books and/or a review of the best?

Your input would be appreciated.

Electronically,

      *********************************************************
    ''|     George Spack - Director of Computer Services      |
  ''''|           Internet: SPACKG@AACRAO.NCHE.EDU            |
''''''|    :^)          Voice: 202-293-9161            (^8    |
''''''|=======================================================|
''''''|      American Association of Collegiate Registrars    |
''''''|               and Admissions Officers                 |
''''''|          One Dupont Circle, NW, Suite 330             |
''''''|             Washington, DC  20036-1171                |
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Full-Name: Wade Williams
X-Sender: williw1@ducserv.duc.auburn.edu
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.cwis-l
Date:         Fri, 22 Jan 1993 09:48:44 -0600
From:         Wade Williams <williw1@MAIL.AUBURN.EDU>
Subject:      Re: CWIS, INTERNET and anonymous users!
Comments: To: "Campus-Wide Information Systems" <CWIS-L@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu>

t's becoming an issue because our computer center folks, who operate
>the news server, are grappling with the decision on whether or not to
>allow posting from PC-based news readers, and the whole question of
>anonymous access to the Internet has naturally arisen.


My understanding of our currently policy is that to read News from a PC or
a Mac, you must specifically request it from the News administrator and
have a statically assigned IP address.  At least that's what I had to do.
I think that's a fair policy that prevents abuse as students in the public
labs can still read it by logging into one of the time-sharing systems.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Wade Williams                  "Though it's just a memory, some
User Services Specialist        memories last forever."
Academic Computing Services
Auburn University                                (N. Peart of Rush)
williw1@mail.auburn.edu
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.cwis-l
From: bdavis@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (William Davis)
Subject: Women applicants wanted for Fellowship Program
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 17:49:10 GMT

              More Women Applicants Wanted for
           the National Undergraduate Fellowships
         in Plasma Physics and Fusion Engineering.

(Please pass along the following announcement to any strong
candidates, or have them request an application by phoning
(609)-243-2112.  Women and minority students are especially encouraged
to apply.  Thank you.)

The National Undergraduate Fellowships in Plasma Physics and Fusion
Engineering provide outstanding undergraduate students in United
States colleges and universities an opportunity to participate in
projects in the forefront of research and development of fusion
energy. The goal of the program is to stimulate students' interest in
the fields relevant to fusion research while providing capable
assistants to fusion research projects. The fellowships are sponsored
by the United States Department of Energy.

The fellowship program consists of two parts: a one-week introductory
course and nine weeks of research. During the week of June 14 - 18,
1993, students will attend the introductory course at the Princeton
University Plasma Physics Laboratory in Princeton, New Jersey, which
will cover basic elements of plasma physics, an introduction to the
technology questions being addressed by fusion researchers, and an
overview of the worldwide fusion effort.

Starting June 21, each student will then take part in nine weeks of
fusion research at one of the participating universities and national
laboratories. Research opportunities are available in theoretical,
computational and applied physics, materials science, and electrical
and mechanical engineering. Research assignments will conclude on
August 20, 1993.

Students will receive a stipend of $4,800 and will be reimbursed for
travel expenses to and from their university or permanent U.S.
address, up to $1,000. Room and board expenses during the one-week
course at Princeton will be paid by the program.  Students will be
responsible for their housing and meal expenses during the remaining
nine weeks.

Applications are invited from students in engineering, mathematics,
computer science, or physics,who are presently in their junior year in
a U.S. college or university.  Exceptional sophomores will also be
considered.   Students should have taken at least one course in
electricity and magnetism beyond introductory physics. Preference in
selection will be given to students who have not previously
participated in this program.

Students should send application materials to:

National Undergraduate Fellowship  Program
Princeton Plasma Physics Laboratory
P.O. Box 451
Princeton, NJ 08543

Telephone:(609) 243-2112

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Date:         Mon, 25 Jan 1993 13:58:00 EDT
From:         "DAVID LANTON, CSTV" <MCSLANTON45@SNYCORVA.BITNET>
Subject:      Internet questions

I have 2 questions regarding information retrieval on internet:

1) I need to find demographics and other statistics for the Raleigh/Durham
North Carolina area for a Broadcast management class project. How can I go
about finding this data? (1990 Census data would be good, too)

2) I would like to do a search of books that cover the topic of starting and
running a college television station.  Whats the best place to search for
this information?

Please respond privately as I am not subscribed to the list.

Thanks,

Dave Lanton

Bitnet:   MCSLANTON45@snycorva.bitnet
Internet: MCSLANTON45@snycorva.cortland.edu
Decent:   SCORVA::MCSLANTON45
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.cwis-l
Date:         Fri, 22 Jan 1993 23:13:04 MET
From:         Milan Jira <ULIMJ@CSPUNI12.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: January Hunt Results

   Czech opinion to the answer to question No. 1: How to say in Czech:

        Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year

gained by winners full score by translation: Prejeme Vam......(translated
to English means <We wish you Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year>, not
the statement given in this question.

Correct translation is: Vesele Vanoce a stastny Novy rok (prejeme Vam should
be included on postcards but is not the part of the translated line.

I was thinking that you have native Czech consultant giving this question...

I would judge replies given as partially correct.

Best,

Milan Jira. M.D., Ph.D.
3rd Medical Faculty, Charles University
Prague, Czech Republic
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