From: jyoung@nyx.cs.du.edu (Jeff Young)
Subject: Re: Atari Falcon Discount Supermachine  Re: Sydnes is gone?!!
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 92 19:27:51 GMT

In article <1992Aug15.064210.27576@uwm.edu> gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block) writes:
>jyoung@nyx.cs.du.edu (Jeff Young) writes:
>: Many software like Pagestream is already running on Falcons!!!
>
>Wow.  That's amazing.  You've got this really ancient version of
>Pagestream running, that's awesome.

MANY versions of many programs now running on Falcons. That is very
good because many people in England not buying A600s because big 
percent of software not running on it.  Falcon 030 is almost same
price as A600 with 2 megabyte chip so C= MUST force better compatable
software!

>It's a good start.  They're already ahead of Apple.  ;)

Amiga and Falcons WAY AHEAD of Apple!!
(new 3000T/40 too expensive but)

>
>:   Optional 68881 or 68882 FPU
>
>Note:  It comes with neither.  Does it have a socket for it?
>Probably.  Let's hope so.

YES!! Compare to A600 with no socket or 68030.

>
>:   RAM: 1,4, or 14 megs
>
>How is THIS accomplished.  That's one HELL of a jump, 1->4->14.

Maybe other people know?  With A600 memory card has TERRIBLE price
for even small memory.  A600 with 4 mb card will cost MUCH more
than Falcon!

>
>:   Standard Atari Cartridge Port
>:   Motorola 56001 DSP chip
>
>(Not an awesome DSP... and no mention of how it's controlled.)

You must be expert designer because Next, Sunrize, SGI, Turtle Beach
all use 56001 so maybe they do not have you knowledge!  Turtle Beach
card is $800 (same price as Falcon!??).  WHY Sunrize, SGI designers
so foolish and not follow you advice with better DSP??

C= does not even put DSP in A500, A2000, A3000 so maybe you are
right!

>
>: Expansion Bus:
>: 
>:   Internal direct processor slot for 386SX PC emulation, or other 
>:   coprocessor
>
>That's the expansion bus???  You'd think they'd use a real bus
>specification and not some "internal direct processor slot".  The
>processor slot on the Amiga is for exactly what it sounds like it's
>for, a new processor...  Suddenly theirs is a general-purpose bus?
>

With A600 PCMIA is REAL BUS and news said not even Apple following
standard!  Maybe Atari designers need more input from expert like you.
IF 386 and video cards and ram cards fit in bus then it is good and
cheap bus.


>: Graphics:
>: 
>:   Super VGA graphics: 640x480 with 256 colors
>:   True color 16 bit mode allowing a display of up to 65,536 colors
>:   Accepts external video sync signal to allow high quality genlocking
>:   Overlay mode for easy video titling and special effects
>:   Overscan on TV's and ST Color monitors
>:   262,144 possible colors
>
>Nothing about overscan is mentioned, no details on overlay.  Nothing
>on the quality of the video, lets hope it at least matches the outputs
>of an Amiga on a scope.  (The Amiga has one of the cleanest signals around)

This is TRUTH!! Amiga has very good video and everyone hoping Falcon can
match up to even A600.


>
>:   hardware-assisted horizontal fine scrolling
>:   BLiTTER graphics co-processor
>
>This, IMHO, is tacky.  Their "blitter" does nothing but bitblt's,
>might as well be an S3.  Absolutely no competition for the Amiga's
>Blitter (they should have stuck with the "Bimmer" notation, bit
>manipulator is a more correct description)

Not sure about blitter.  Amiga has very good blitter too.


>
>: Sound features:
>: 
>:   Eight 16 bit audio DMA record and playback channels
>:   Stereo 16 bit digital DMA input
>:   Stereo 16 bit DMA audio output
>
>How does this wash?  8 16-bit audio record/playback channels and only
>stereo 16-bit output?  Sounds like they're playing with your minds by
>covering up the features.  I wish specifics were mentioned.


Yes many millions of musicians waiting for more specs and next week
Falcon will show all.

>
>:   SDMA sound/DMA Coprocessor
>
>Yup.  Sounds like it's OS-only access to the DSP, definitely a waste
>of resources.  The 56001 is more than a cheap audio controller.

Next week everyone will know truth.  IF DSP is used very well
in Falcon then many millions will buy it for sure!


>:   SCSI II port with DMA

>Again, no mention of whether the SCSI-II has fast or wide
>implementations.  (That CANNOT be inferred by stating "SCSI-II")

Yes Atari MUST give more info to compare SCSI2 in Falcon with
IDE in A600!  People can compare with A2000 and A3000 too.
 

>
>:   High speed LocalTalk  compatible  LAN
>
>Well, now we know the type.  Now how's the software support for
>invisible access, like AppleTalk protocol is envisioned to work?

Not sure but A600 has invisible Localtalk LAN I think!!

>
>:   Connector for analog RGB color (ST or VGA) or composite video
>:   RS232C serial port
>:   Bidirectional parallel port
>
>No mention of type.  If they'll mention RS232C for the serial, then
>they probably would have mentioned RS232C or Centronics if it was
>compatible with either.  Translation:  It's another custom jobbie.

But flicker fixer is $200-$300 custom jobbie too!  Even DKB Megachip
is $300 custom jobbie so I hope Atari parallel port is FREE!

>
>:   MIDI IN/MIDI OUT
>
>Again, we'd hope.
>
>:   Stereo microphone input, miniature stereo plug
>:   Stereo audio out, miniature stereo plug
>
>These should have been RCA jacks, as any audiophile could tell you.

Atari stuffing SO MANY things in case maybe not possible, but expert
designer like you would find a way and compete with A600 price!


>
>:   Two joystick connectors
>:   Two enhanced digital/analog controller/light pen connectors
>
>Separate.  Great.  Two "hack joysticks", and two "real joystick"
>ports.

??? Many people can find things to do with both types so it is very good.

>
>: Data Storage
>: 
>:   1.44 Mbyte floppy disk drive

You forgot comment about 1.44 drive!  People said 2.88 like in new PS/2
can be used too so this is very good feature.
 
>:   Optional internal IDE Hard Disk
>
>Pointless if they've got SCSI-II on the back.  Kind of a waste of DMA,
>isn't it?

You must be A600 designer!  Many people will like option of using
SCSI or IDE.  No choice with A600 but maybe C= will add $$$ option
later??

>
>: System software
>: 
>:   Pre-emptive Multitasking with memory potection (MultiTOS)
>
>Good.  Resource tracking?

What is resource tracking?  Millions of people want MultiTOS DIG
and memory protection so maybe resource tracking will be inlcuded
later!

>
>:   Inter process communication
>
>No method specified.  Pointer-pass?  Copy message?  Big difference in
>speed.  Then, of course, people wonder if it's got some system-wide
>form of an IPC/script language like REXX is for OS/2 and AmigaOS.

This is short description..

     MultiTOS allows as many processes to run concurrently, and as many
windows to be open, as memory permits. It can employ the 68030 Memory-
Management Unit's (MMU) hardware-based memory-protection capability to
prevent accidental memory trespass and restrict how much memory each
process occupies. Well-behaved applications can set their own boundaries,
using Malloc() and Mshrink() calls; while badly-behaved applications can
be restricted deliberately, by the user. Even in the absence of an MMU
(i.e., when MultiTOS is running on a 68000-based ST), features have been
incorporated to permit indentification and graceful shutdown of rogue
processes, avoiding system crashes in all but the most severe cases.
     File- and record-locking is now automatic at the TOS level -- another
reason why current applications don't need to be rewritten to run under
MultiTOS. Output from TOS (i.e., non-GEM) applications is piped
automatically to the window-manager, and output is displayed in its own
window. A variety of Inter-Process Communication (IPC) facilities are
supported, including piping and forms of shared memory, as well as a
brace of options by which processes may "spawn" child-processes, and
control their operation.

>
>:   NewDesk desktop and eXtensible control panel
>
>Says little.  Sounds like a better metaphor than the GEM desktop, and
>I've never been partial to the "control panel" gimmick.
>
>:   Multiple window user interface;  number of windows limited 
>:   only by memory or software in use.
>
>It's about time, isn't it?  (Curiosity:  Why would it be limited by
>"software in use"?  That the software doesn't open any more, or
>because if it's an old ST-compatible program that it can't open any
>more than 4 because the OS is running that task in ST-compatibility
>mode, thinking that it doesn't know it can open more?)

Not sure but you can ask Atari MultiTOS experts!

>
>: Extensive testing with the Falcon has already been done on 
>:    existing software.  We are very pleased with the high degree of 
>:    compatibility.  For instance, PowerNet, a increasingly popular 
>:    LocalTalk networking solution works fine with no modifications.  
>
>Does that mean you'll have no built-in software for LAN use?  Kind of
>dumb to add network support and then not give you the software to use
>it, doesn't it?

YES!! Sometimes Atari is doing very dumb things!

>
>:    Calamus SL, PageStream, WordFlair II, Cubase 3.0, STalker 3.0, 
>:    STeno, Arabesque, and many other well written applications will 
>:    work perfectly.
>
>Calamus is a nice package, I must say.  But it will be in dire need of
>a Falcon-specific version.
>

Many people said Calamus is best in the world and it is nice that 
people can use Falcon when they buy it!  If many software breaks
like on A600 many people will think money is wasted.

>: Any bundled software with the Falcon?
>: 
>:    Yes, there will be a number of things packaged with the Atari 
>:    Falcon030.  There will be a couple of games written especially 
>:    for the Atari Falcon030...LandMines, and a BreakOut kind of 
>:    game.  We will also have a Rolodex type of application called 
>:    Cal/Apt, a calculator application called ProCalc, and a Talking 
>:    Clock desk accessory.
>
>Wow.  That's just awesome.  You know, there's about 10x that shipped
>with 2.0 for the Amiga.  That is REALLY sad.  An address-keeper, a
>rolodex, a clock, and Breakout MCMLXXVII, as if there haven't been
>enough BreakOut games invented.

This is very true so Atari should sell Falcon for $2000 and include 
over $1000 in FREE software!!  You have very good idea!


>
>:    With plugging in optional third party coprocessor boards, you 
>:    will be able to run PC type software, and maybe even MacIntosh 
>:    software.  ga
>
>And if it had been done right, it would have a real bus with more than
>one slot that you could have put it into instead, thereby avoiding
>opening your case each time you need to run something for the Mac or
>PC.  If you're going to do emulation, don't force the user into one
>emulator like that.

Yes real bus like A600 might be good but Atari is trying to sell
Falcons for very low price.


>
>: .Sam>
>:    Yes, there are several direct to disk recording systems under 
>:    development.  And we expect at least a few of them to be 
>:    debuted next week at the Atari Duesseldorf Messe.
>
>Sounds like non-arbitrated DSP use.

Maybe Atari experts can find out for sure next week.

>
>: .Sam>
>:    MultiTOS will indeed work with a 68040 platform.  On the first 
>:    question regarding developers, there are too many to mention 
>:    now.   And yes, some that were not working on our system are 
>:    now.  Such as NeXT developers because of the DSP 56000 which 
>:    opens the world to really exciting software.
>
>At least they wrote their code right this time.  And the DSP would
>open a lot of doors.  Would, if done right.  They still haven't
>convinced me that they have.
>
>What happens when you run 2 DSP-using programs?  Or try to play a
>sound while the DSP is recording something direct-to-disk by an
>application?

Not sure but with expert Next programers Falcon DSP might be
used very nice!  Cannot compare with A600 because you said 
56001 DSP is not so good so C= did not use it.  

>
>:    Yes, there is a true expansion bus.  It is a direct processor 
>:    slot with all of the necessary goodies...interupts, etc. 
>:    768x480 in overscan is the highest standard rez.
>
>A "direct processor slot" is not a true expansion bus.  Even Apple
>got that one right, those technological, architectural geniuses.
>
>Greg

Yes if Atari designers consulted you on many things they would not
make so many mistakes!  For many millions of people Atari Falcon 030
is very good value and many students can learn about DSP and 68030
and true color and Unix with it.