HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Nabil Idriss)
Subject: Re: Israel and Palestine
Organization: NCR E&M Columbia SC.
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 18:35:30 GMT

>But you're right -- the folks in Gaza cannot survive without the jobs we give
>them in Israel. So ya know what? Fuck 'em. Seal the border and let the
>

You got the em backwards.

> +------------------------+----------------------------------------------+
> | Jonathan B. Horen      | Friendly fire isn't.                         |
> | TechWriter/SysAdmin    | Recoilless rifles aren't.                    |
> | email: j.horen@rs.com  | Suppressive fires won't.                     |
> | Tel:   (415) 856-8000  |        -- Murphy's Laws of Combat Ops        |
> +------------------------+----------------------------------------------+


-- 
Nabil Idriss                           |       FOR EVERY ACTION AN OPPOSITE  
NCR - Midrange Products Division       |       AND EQUAL REACTION.
      Columbia, South Carolina         |      
email: nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM |
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: idfriedm@hertz.waterloo.edu (id friedman)
Subject: Re: Radio Host Fired After Jewish Prote
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 23:28:58 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.200947.24456@cs.brown.edu> dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) writes:
><24131@castle.ed.ac.uk> egpv29@castle.ed.ac.uk (JHenderson) writes:
>
>##I wonder if the fact that Edwards is a hate-monger, or the fact that he had
>##little regard for facts and made up absurd, inflammatory statements such as
>##"Yitzhak Shamir and David Ben Gurion colluded with the Nazis during World
>##War II" could have had anything to do with his well-deserved canning. 
>#
>#Maybe he was referring to the 1941 offer of the LEHI group, commanded by
>#Shamir, to co-operate with the Nazis against the British (Ha'aretz, Jan 31,
>#1983).
>
>a) And what does that have to do with Ben-Gurion?
>
>b) I remember reading the exact letter sent from Lehi to some Nazi official
>   regarding this cooperation. It specificaly mentioned that the cooperation
>   would involve moving the Jewish population of Europe to Palestine. One
>   has also to remember that the nature of the Nazi genocide *was not* yet
>   known, and, in fact, in 1941 (perhaps somewhat can get the exact date
>   of the letter) there wasn't yet an organized extermination program
>   around; the death camps weren't built yet, and there was hardly a clue
>   as to what the Nazis were pursuing. It was definitly known that they
>   were rabid antisemites, and word of scttered massacres was proabably
>   getting around, but the extent and methods of the mass murder were not
>   applied yet.
>
>   If one does not look at this in a cynical way, it can definitly be
>   interpreted as an attempt to get the Jews of Europe out of there and
>   into Palestine.

 
Many Jewish fighters ( from Palestine and elsewhere) fought fiercely
againsy Germany during WWII.



>
>c) For fairness sake, one should remember the open admiration top Arab
>   leaders, like Sadat and Hussein, expressed towards Hitler and Eichmannn,
>   and that Syria is *still* harboring one of the most notorious Nazi
             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>   war criminals. I find this much worse that the Lehi attempt to
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

   This is true. Read Simon Wiesenthal's "Justice not Vengeance" and other
   books for more details.

   Why doesn't Syria, if it is sincere about peace, as a gesture of faith,
   release him to one of a number of countries which have a warrant for
   his arrest.
>   cooperate with the Nazis in 1941.
>
>-Danny Keren.

 Indeed, when Eichmann was brought to trial in Israel ( 1960 or 1961 I
 believe), a Jordanian English language Jerusalem paper called for
 Arabs to avenge the blood of Eichmann, the martyr, by killing another
 six million Jews ( you wonder why Israel is paranoid about peace!).
 
 If anyone requests so, I can repost that article.



>
>
>

Ishay
From: arens@ISI.EDU (Yigal Arens)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: territories vs the territories
Date: 21 Jul 92 17:50:31 GMT
	<91477@bu.edu>
Organization: USC/Information Sciences Institute
In-reply-to: gene@cs.bu.edu's message of 21 Jul 92 15:40:06 GMT

In article <91477@bu.edu> gene@cs.bu.edu (Gene Itkis) writes:
>
> In article <1992Jul21.063519.4451@rs.com> horen@rs.com writes:
> +In article 21981@venera.isi.edu, arens@ISI.EDU (Yigal Arens) writes:
> +-I'm afraid you know wrong.  The US does not even recognize western
> +-Jerusalem (i.e., the part taken by Israel in 1948) as part of Israel.
> +-I've mentioned in the past that the US State Department will not record
> +-a person's country of origin in a passport as 'Israel' if they were born
> +-in Jerusalem.
> +
> +Ah-h-h, I'm afraid *you* know wrong. Both of my daughters were born at the 
> +"Bikur Cholim" hospital, smack-dab in the middle of Jerusalem, and both of 
> +their *American* passports list place of birth as "Jerusalem, Israel".
>
> Perhaps you both know right: Yigal probably meant those born before 48.

No I meant even born after 48.  The issue is, does the passport agency
*know* that your daughters were born in Jerusalem?  If your daughters
(or you) filled out simply "Israel" as the place of birth on the
application, the issue does not come up.  But not so if they (or you)
wrote "Jerusalem, Israel".  The latter is what my daughter did not long
ago, and she was explicitly told that had she written simply "Israel" no
questions would have been asked, but since she mentioned Jerusalem,
Israel could not be recorded as the place of birth.  At my daughter's
request the person at the passport agency checked again that this was in
fact the policy.
--
Yigal Arens   "He seems like an average type of man.  He's not, like, smart.
USC/ISI        I'm not trying to bag on him or anything, but he has the same
arens@isi.edu  mentality I have -- and I'm in the eighth grade."     Vanessa
               Martinez, after VP Quayle's visit to her school-LA Times 5/21
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: hallam@zeus02.desy.de (Phillip M. Hallam-Baker)
Subject: Re: territories vs the territories
Reply-To: hallam@zeus02.desy.de
Organization: DESY ZEUS Central Data Acquisition
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 20:53:18 GMT

In article <3809@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP>, rdtst+@pitt.edu (Richard D.
Thorne) writes:

|>| Nope, WE in the UK defended France in WWII. The US merely helped
|>recapture it.

|>	You mean from the start of hostilities to Dunkirk right?  Not
|>        a shining moment in the annals of military history.

Rather cleverer move than announcing a blockade on a country and then
acting all surprised when a pre-emptive air attack is launched. You can
take that to mean either '42 or '74.


Phill
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: idfriedm@hertz.waterloo.edu (id friedman)
Subject: propaganda
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 17:49:43 GMT


I mentioned in another article about the effect of the Eichmann trial
on Arab leadership. I will post an article word for word from a Jordanian
English language Jerusalem paper. The point of the article 
is simply to dispel the notion that the Arab leaders were simply trying
to help the Palestinians, instead of destroying Israel. The point is
** not ** academic. To understand Israel's actions ( doesn't necessarily
mean to agree with them), you must understand the threat of genocide
surrounding it.

Source: Harkabi, "Arab Attitudes to Israel", 1972

Article: "Open Letter to Eichmann", April 24, 1961: Jerusalem Times
         Jerusalem, Jordan.

Dear Eichmann,
   " I address you in your glass cell to extend a word of sympathy in your
present plight. German genius that has invented sputniks and missiles and
all sorts of things has failed to inspire you to avert the disaster that
has befallen you.

   What a pity Eichmann that you allowed those swine to arrest you and stage
their drama. But don't worry Eichmann it will in the end fall on their heads.
  
   Listen Eichmann you are accused if dissimating six million of this breed.
Whether this is correct or not it is not our object to debate this issue but
what we like to say is this if you really managed to liquidate six million of
them and if the remaining six million have been instrumental in inflicting so
much havoc on the Arabs and disgorging them from their homes we wonder what
would have been the result if the dissimated six million would have been       
allowed to survive.
 
  It is likely that a similar drama would have been staged in another part of
the Arab countries. So that by liquidating six millions you have minimized
the extent of the calamity and conferred a real blessing on humanity you can
imagine dear Eichmann the feeling of the million or so of Arab refugess at this
drama...

 The object of this trial is simply to attract more tourists to the occupied
section and to exploit it for fund raising and for skinning the rest of
mankind.

 But be brave Eichmann find solace in the fact that this trial will one day
culminate in the liquidation of the remaining six million to avenge your
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
blood and the manner in which you have been kidnapped and brought to trial
by the very same people who tortured and ejected a million or so from their
homes." 


Why did Israel worry about Nassar attacking it in 1967?

"Arab unity means the liquidation of Israel and the expansionist dreams
of Zionism" ( Nassar at festival of unity, Feb, 22, 1965)


A book on behalf of UAR gov't :

"The land of Palestine will uttely spew out all that is on it, with the
exception of the sons of Palestine, and none will remain except the Arabs,
so that they may rebuild the glory of their homeland and cleanse it from
the traces of the Jews, and it shall remain a land of the Arabs for the Arabs."
From: phd21@seq1.keele.ac.uk (A. Jaber)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Apology to my Shia Arab Fellows
Date: 24 Jul 92 16:32:44 GMT
Reply-To: phd21@seq1.kl.ac.uk (A. Jaber)
Organization: University of Keele, England



	         Apology to the  Arab Shias of Kuwait

In my dual with Anwar Mohammad I have said that many in the Shia
Community in Kuwait are loyal to Khomeini and I gave an Example the
support of some people for the Khomeinist attack on Western Embassies
in Kuwait.

I do apologize for my fellow Arabs who are Shia, what my statement
have meant is that some Shias in Kuwait and not many Shias in Kuwait
supported Khomeini. I have an understanding those Shias who supported
Khomeini in Kuwait were mostly Iranian Kuwaitis and some Shia Arab
Fanatics, those have been deported to Iran.

Once again I do apologize for my fellow Arab Shias Sincerely.


A Jaber
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Israel Cancels Building in the West Bank
From: scott@anasaz (Scott Gibson)
Date: 29 Jul 92 14:34:55 GMT
Reply-To: scott@qip.UUCP (Scott Gibson)
Organization: Anasazi, Inc.  Phoenix, Az

In article <1992Jul28.182117.17452@ncsu.edu> hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem) writes:
>
>I believe that sufficient justification
>exists for the belief that Israel's northern border is controlable and
>will be controlled when Israel pulls out.

Interesting.  Care to elucidate?

I doubt Israel can count on the good will of the Syrians.  It is not
much more likely that they can count on the good will of the people
of southern Lebanon, who perceive themselves to have good reason to
hate the Israelis.  I realize you probably think those reasons will
go away if the Israelis cease their occupation, but I have to recall
that we are talking about a political situation where memories of
injustice and oppression are long, indeed.

How about an exchange?  The Syrians and Israelis both pull out; the
Israeli security zone is occupied by significant UN peacekeeping
forces, and a similar zone is established and so occupied along
the Lebanon/Syria border.



-- 
But you knew your figure cut a cipher/ Through every crafted plan/ And 
playing our game for real/ Saw through our plumbing jobs/ And wayward glands/
To a meaning of your own, in bones."  - Iain M. Banks, "Use of Weapons"
Scott Gibson                   {ames!ncar!noao!asuvax,mcdphx}!anasaz!qip!scott
Disclaimer:  These opinions are my own, and may change without prior notice.
From: analyst@netcom.com (David Sternlight)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Radio Host Fired After Jewish Prote
Date: 31 Jul 92 16:41:01 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)


If Hallam-Baker reads his original claim of what my e-mail said,
and his subsequent quotation, he will see that the meanings are
quite different. Since he now quoted my e-mail without permission,
he's on my kill list, so readers should know I will no longer be
responding to anything he says. Silence does not denote assent.

-- 
David Sternlight        David Sternlight Inc.        email:analyst@netcom.COM
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: flax@frej.teknikum.uu.se (Jonas Flygare)
Subject: Re: ISRAEL JOINS THE CIVILIZED WORLD
Organization: /home2/ctrl/staff/flax/.organization
	<1992Jul27.232205.14134@bony1.bony.com> <24244@castle.ed.ac.uk>
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 19:38:37 GMT

In article <24244@castle.ed.ac.uk> egpv29@castle.ed.ac.uk (JHenderson) writes:

   In article <1992Jul27.232205.14134@bony1.bony.com>
   jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni) writes:

   I said "is a member" instead of "was a member". So sue me. But I'm
   interested to read your implication that there is a statute of limitations
   on murder. I'm sure "Ivan the Terrible" (when the Israeli courts can
   finally get the right guy on trial) will be interested to hear it.

Most countries differ between murders and war crimes.
The victor gets to decide what the crimes were. Tough luck.
In any case, would you care to explain the term 'statute of limitations'
for us foreigners who aren't all that well versed in your language?
'Law of limitations' is as close as I get, but I'm not sure I understand the
concept.

   =>>I think the part of Pee Wee's Big Adventure that you're trying to remember
   =>>here went something like "I'm rubber and you're glue. Whatever you say
   =>>bounces off me and sticks to you". Maybe you can re-view your video and
   =>>find a new debating technique before posting again.
   =>
   =>I've never seen this film,

   Ask your Mom to take you. Maybe if you promise not to squeal for ice-cream
   she'll take you this time. I'd recommend you go on your own, but you'll
   need to hide in her lap during the scary bits.

Ahh, that was a comma, would you be so kind as to let us know
what the rest of the sentence was? Or couldn't you wriggle out of
that one?

   =>BTW, are you still incapable of recognizing the difference between terrorists
   =>like Arafat and between politicians like the ones who get elected routinely 
   =>in most countries?

   zzzzzZZZZZZzzzzzzZZZZZ      <- onomatopoeic representation of Jeremy
				  falling asleep waiting for Livni to
				  catch up on the thread about Shamir's
				  1941 antics.

It's nice to see people learn new words once in a while.
I'm happy to see you are using the same dictionary. Just to make you happy, 
you'll get some mispeled wordds to komplain about.
(Since I suspect you'll 'forget' answering my questions the same
way you did before.)
--

--------------------------------------------------------
Jonas Flygare, 		+ Wherever you go, there you are
V{ktargatan 32 F:621	+
754 22 Uppsala, Sweden	+
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: arens@ISI.EDU (Yigal Arens)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: FACTS EVERY ISRAEL BASHER MUST AVOID!
Date: 22 Jul 92 23:23:15 GMT
	<1992Jul22.055738.8110@mcs.kent.edu>
	<1992Jul22.130849.1050@wpi.WPI.EDU>
Organization: USC/Information Sciences Institute
In-reply-to: nyh@wpi.WPI.EDU's message of 22 Jul 92 13:08:49 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.130849.1050@wpi.WPI.EDU> nyh@wpi.WPI.EDU (Nevo Y Hed) writes:
>
> In article <1992Jul22.055738.8110@mcs.kent.edu> rayes@Snake.mcs.kent.edu (Sandra Rayes) writes:
> >In article <EeOr_aW00WB2EUcVcI@andrew.cmu.edu> Radu Eugen Edelstein <re0x+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
> >>
> >>I say:
> >>How do you explain the fact that the piles of rocks were prepared
> >>in advance, that the "worshipers" went directly to those piles at
> >
> >HAHAHAHA...what a load of crap!  How were the Muslims supposed to
> >know that right-wingers planned a rally that day?  Do they make
> >a habit of informing their enemies of their rallies?
>
> I donno abput prepared piles but they knew that there was a rallie -
> it was banned and they were informed - see Ben David's post WRT
> investigation.

Is it the contention of Mr. Hed, and Mr. Ben David before him, that the
Palestinians are supposed to take for granted that Israeli court orders
will be obeyed by the religious/nationalist fanatics in question, and
that if not, then the Israeli police and/or military will successfully
enforce such orders?

Certainly even you guys can recall very many actions taken by settlers
and their friends that were contrary to court orders, laws, military
commands, and government decisions.  Many of these were retroactively
accepted and even supported by the authorities in question.  Need I
mention examples?

I don't think one has to accuse the Palestinians of duplicity or malice
just because they took some defensive measures against a known plan by
Jewish extremists to foment trouble in the mosque area.  And nobody
denies that such a plan did in fact exist.
--
Yigal Arens   "He seems like an average type of man.  He's not, like, smart.
USC/ISI        I'm not trying to bag on him or anything, but he has the same
arens@isi.edu  mentality I have -- and I'm in the eighth grade."     Vanessa
               Martinez, after VP Quayle's visit to her school-LA Times 5/21
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
Subject: Re: Perot and the Jewish controlled media
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 06:11:05 GMT

arf@ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) writes:
 
##the boycott of Kosher food,
# 
# ARF says:
# 
# A legitimate political statement of solidarity with the 
# Palestinians.

I am speechless in front of this leap of logic. Is this related
to the "Matzo-Uzis affair", or is the "secret Rabbi tax" used
to fund settelments in the west bank? 

## support of David Duke 
# 
# ARF says:
# 
# My right as an American citizen.

arfie Arfie ARFIE AARRFFIIEE!!!!!

For heavens sake, we are not talking about whether its your right
or not. Of course its your right; so what?? the fact that you
lead a crusade for Duke and defended the NAAWP cannot be explained
away by "its my right".

##and Ralph Winston
# 
# ARF says:
# 
# If you recognize it as qualified support, that again is my 
# right.  How is it any more evil than all the Zionists that 
# support Shamir and his evil actions that speak far louder 
# than Winston's words.

What the *&^&*^&*&( are you talking about?? I don't think many people
doubt that "Ralph Winston" is a disgusting neo-Nazi swine. You
are not even retracting your support for him, but justifying
it with two absurd comments: One, that it is your right, and the
second that "the Zionist are worse". Even if it was so, what the
hell has that got to do with it? 

-Danny Keren.

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni)
Subject: Re: FACTS EVERY ISRAEL BASHER MUST AVOID!
Organization: The Department of Redundancy Department
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 21:07:32 GMT

In article <22027@venera.isi.edu> arens@ISI.EDU (Yigal Arens) writes:

>You appear to be avoiding the question.  How many Jews have been killed
>BY A ROCK BEING HURLED AT THEM?
>
>And while you're at it, how often should such deaths happen before it
>would, in your opinion, be appropriate to refer to stones as "deadly
>weapons"?

Yigal is right.  Here in the USA, thousands of hunting rifles and assault
weapons fire tens of thousands of bullets a year resulting, perhaps, in 
only several hundred deaths.  Therefore, these are not "deadly weapons",
either.  (Was Yigal being sarcastic, too, or just me?)

>Also, give us an estimate of how many stones have been thrown
>at people in the occupied territories during the period in which the
>Jewish deaths you list have occurred.  For reference, you might wish to
>compare the dangers of being attacked by such a stone to those of being
>shot, just so we can put it all in prespective

I recall a case of a fellow in Jerusalem who was hit in the head by a
rock dropped from a wall.  I have seen metal nets above some streets and 
intersections in the Old City of Jerusalem to prevent larger stones from
being dropped on tourists and passers-by.  My father had the windshield
of his car smashed by a flying stone while driving in an Arab neighborhood 
and was injured from the stone, though he kept the car under control until 
stopping.  My brother suffered a similar experience with a twist: someone 
in an oncoming Arab taxi (they are recognizable by their colors and 
decorations) threw a stone at him on the highway, hitting his car squarely.
If the stone is thrown with negligible speed from a car doing 60 mph and 
hits and oncoming car doing 60 mph, the stone hits the car at an effective 
speed of 120 mph.  It's really something.  While aim and timing are important,
it seems that some Arabs in Israel have had much practice and perfected this
one.  Buses are popular targets, being large, slow and regularly predictable.

As for comparing the dangers of being hit by a stone and being shot,
there have been people have managed to drive cars and fly planes all 
the way home after being shot.  And there have been people who didn't 
make it.  Same for stones.  If stones aren't "deadly weapons", paper cuts 
don't hurt, either.

-- 
Jake Livni  jake@bony1.bony.com               Pat Paulsen for President
American-Occupied New York                    This year he has a real chance!
My opinions only - employer has no opinions.