HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jeffo@uiuc.edu (J.B. Nicholson-Owens)
Subject: Why doesn't RightBrain and others do this? (was: Re: PasteUp vs PageMaker vs Quark (RTF))
Reply-To: jeffo@uiuc.edu (J.B. Nicholson-Owens)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 01:23:53 GMT

Scott Hess writes (on comp.sys.next.software)
> There is an available solution that Jack could have used.  He could
> have placed the document on the archive servers right next to the
> Booz-Whoever study NeXT put out there, and then posted to csn.announce
> telling us it was available and how to get it.  He could have set
> up an email information server at RightBrain and allowed us to get
> it that way.

Yes!  I don't understand why Jack Reynolds insisted on posting when  
RightBrain could have set up (or *used* if it's already set up) some  
mailing service that answers to info@rightbrain.com and mails out whatever  
publicity info you request.

In the case that this service is already set up, I don't want to hear  
about it because I don't care about RightBrain's products.
-- 
-- Jeff (jeffo@uiuc.edu)
-- no NeXTmail please
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: tagreen@lothario.cica.indiana.edu (Todd A Green)
Subject: Re: Object Oriented File System: Huh??
Organization: CICA - Center for Innovative Computer Applications
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 22:27:46 GMT

In article <1992Sep7.144521.8116@next.cambridge.ma.us> simsong@next.cambridge.ma.us writes:
>In article <2596@tau-ceti.isc-br.com> jimc@tau-ceti.isc-br.com (Jim Cathey)  
>writes:
>> 
>> I've used both systems, and I generally prefer the Mac where you have
>> complete freedom in choosing names for files.
>> 
>
>As long as you don't put a colon in the file's name.

Or start the file name with a "." (Such as .ENET :)

Todd


Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: cowboy@trans.csuohio.edu (Joe Rosenfeld)
Subject: Re: Open Letter: Don't get rid of UNIX
Organization: Cleveland State University
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 16:35:27 GMT

 (MKK2@psuvm.psu.edu) wrote:
: It looks to me like people mean one of two very different things when they
: whether neXT should "get rid of Unix," and I think the discussion will be
: clearer if we keep them straight.
: 
: 1.  Since using traditional command line Unix is hard for many people, NeXT
: should devote resources to hiding it under NeXTstep user interfaces.  Examples
: include the NeXT System Administration tools.  In brief, any time a user
: goes to the Terminal for a shell is a failure of the GUI.

I guess there should also be a shell, to make Unix more like DOS (please
don't shoot me for saying DOS--I hate it myself) to those who refuse to try
to pick up Unix.  I could not live without Unix, and I am no programmer.
The ftp utilities also are indispensible to me.  I have used aliases to
redefine much of the command line Unix to APPEAr as other OS's.

I would never want a Mac, though.  I mean, there is NO command line, so you
can never use it.  At least on the NeXT there is Unix, though I, too, think
it should be worked on, streamlined, made more powerful.  and when you need
to use Unix, it's there.  Long live Unix!
: 
: 2.  Underlying Unix system calls are old fashioned and obsolete.  It should
: be replaced with something more modern, such as OS/2, MSNT, or PICK 8-) 8-)
: 
:    I think (1) has some merit, but that (2) is ludicrous.  I see people here
: arguing for (1), but other people hearing an argument in favor of (2)

I guess it depends on whom you talk to.  NeXT should do whatever it can to
become as widely appealing to all classes of potential users, but every
company has to draw the line somewhere, I suppose.  Where is NeXT going in
the near future?

--

________

Joe Rosenfeld                              cowboy@trans.csuohio.edu
Automation Librarian                      joer@inca.law.csuohio.edu
Cleveland State University Law Library
From: aberno@godel.questor.wimsey.bc.ca (Anthony Berno)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Thanks, NeXT!
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 06:50:43 GMT
Reply-To: aberno@godel.questor.wimsey.bc.ca


Just thought I'd mention that a question I had in comp.sys.next.software  
got an immediate and correct response from Matt Watson at NeXT. 

It's great to see this presence on the net. Thank you and keep it up!

-Anthony

Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: timm@void.ncsa.uiuc.edu (Tim McClarren)
Subject: Re: Avoid RightBrain for RTF ? (Who the heck are you people?)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 23:21:29 GMT

vesely@next.heart.rri.uwo.ca (Ivan Vesely) writes:

>In article <timm.716098845@void> timm@void.ncsa.uiuc.edu (Tim McClarren)  
>writes:
>> glenn@rightbrain.com (Glenn Reid) writes:
>> 
>> > ......A handful of people (essentially
>> >all of them in college, for what it's worth) have decided that we are
>> >evil and wanton in our disregard for the net rules, when in reality it is
>> >not the least bit clear what is right and wrong......
>> 
>> No, you're evil and wanton because you show no consideration for other
>> folks.  That's my complaint. 

>With RTF postings? Are you for real?

Read before you post.  I'm not a tightwad and I've got no complaints
about RTF posts.  I simply want them to be labelled.  Is that oh
so difficult for you?  I love these groups...everyone screams and no one
pays any attention to what's being said.

-- 
Tim McClarren     | "...a bajillion brilliant Jobsian lithium licks."
timm@ncsa.uiuc.edu|
(217)244-0015     |
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: Object Oriented File System: Huh??
From: feijai@endor.byu.edu (Sean Luke)
Date: 8 Sep 92 15:55:40 -0700
Reply-To: sean@digaudio.byu.edu

In article <Bu8BqB.CF3@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>  writes:
>In article <1992Sep7.144521.8116@next.cambridge.ma.us>  
simsong@next.cambridge.ma.us writes:
>>In article <2596@tau-ceti.isc-br.com> jimc@tau-ceti.isc-br.com (Jim  
Cathey)
>>writes:
>>>
>>> I've used both systems, and I generally prefer the Mac where you have
>>> complete freedom in choosing names for files.
>>>
>>
>>As long as you don't put a colon in the file's name.
>
>Or start the file name with a "." (Such as .ENET :)


Well...yes.

The Mac also restricts you to about 30 characters too.  But then again,  
you don't have to name postscript files blahblahblah.ps or .eps so the  
NeXT recognizes them as such.  All-in-all, I think the Macintosh's  
extensive naming, creator, type, and flag conventions easily outweigh  
UNIX's (except for security).  NeXT has done a nice job of hiding UNIX  
deficiencies, but it still shows up occasionally.


--

Sean Luke
Brigham Young University                   MILK:  It Comes From Cows
sean@digaudio.byu.edu  
NeXTmail and nifty Mac stuff welcome
Organization: Sophomore, Physics, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Date: Tue,  8 Sep 1992 16:33:59 -0400 
From: Faisal Nameer Jawdat <fj05+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Nextstep on NT
	<1992Sep08.160141.104952@lexmark.com>

songer@lexmark.com (Christopher Songer) writes:
> offers the OS functionality of UNIX and requires fewer system resources 
> dictates this. One would almost wonder if in the first year it will 
> exceed UNIX's market share.

I'm sure all the universities in the country running 200 workstation
unix machines will love to jump to NT :-)

I don't doubt that NT will quickly replace dos/win as the major LAN
model, but I doubt it will ever gain a large share in places like
universities, where Unix dominates, and takes up a large portion of
the Internet...

I submit a comparison of Unix and NT for the college, WAN environment

NT- Supported for various high end platforms, only one of which
currently exists (Alpha, 486/586 that I know of)
Unix- supported for just about everything currently in existence,
probably just about everything coming out (386/486/586, Mips, DEC,
SGI, Sun, HP, IBM, MAC, NeXT, etc, etc.)

NT- high unit cost
Unix- relatively cheap, depending on flavour

NT- no expertise currently available
Unix- lots of expertise - much more available

Unix- much of the internet has it, so everyone else wants it to
maintain compatibility
NT- needs critical mass to get going but doesn't even exist yet- if
Cornell, CMU, and MIT switch everyone else might go, but I doubt
they're keen to jump

Unix- relatively easy to program for, good for CS majors, etc.
NT- almost requires professional experience, plus needs GUI knowledge,
etc.

Unix- just wacky enough to provide real world training to all the
workstudy's who wind up working in CS departments everywhere
NT- don't touch it, it works fine, it's the application writer's
fault, wait for our next release, then buy it

in short, NT is great for small companies that want to work with slick
professional packages on a LAN, but isn't the right OS for colleges
that want a certain measure of compatibility with everything that's
out there (internet and other colleges), want a system that is
student-extensible (cc vs. SDK, you decide (and remember the
cost...)), student manageable, and doesn't cost $800 per copy to fix
this bug or that bug...
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: bill@chaos.phys.ualberta.ca (Bill Burris)
Subject: Re:   Nextstep on NT
Reply-To: bill@chaos.phys.ualberta.ca (Bill Burris)
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1992 00:11:53 GMT

> In article <dillon.0nkt@overload.Berkeley.CA.US>  
> dillon@overload.Berkeley.CA.US (Matthew Dillon) writes:
> 
> >     Porting NeXTSTEP to OS/2 2.0 might be more doable, though.
> 
Isn't that like loading your Lamberguenie on a pickup to drive it
around.

Bill
From: dillon@overload.Berkeley.CA.US (Matthew Dillon)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re:   Nextstep on NT
Distribution: world
Date: 11 Sep 92 09:33:22 PST
Organization: Not an Organization

>In article <1992Sep10.094124.1@capd.jhuapl.edu> waltrip@capd.jhuapl.edu writes:
>>In article <dillon.0nhp@overload.Berkeley.CA.US>,
>dillon@overload.Berkeley.CA.US (Matthew Dillon) writes:
>
>>     NT is a piece of crap... MicroSoft's sole purpose in life is to develop
>>     proprietary software, hook everyone, then leave them hanging.
>
>..
>	But none of this means that NT is a piece of crap.  A lot of excellent

    I'm sorry, let me be clear.

    I *USE* MS Windows (3.1 currently) every day.

    It's a piece of crap.

>>     How many
>>     releases will they have gone through to get the most basic multitasking
>>     that NT is to provide?  How many more before the OS is stable?  How
>>     many more before processes stop crashing the machine?
>
>	I believe I can answer that.  If the first release is as good as the
>	developer's pre-releases:  ONE.

    Huh?  You are resetting the count to zero so 'NT' is #1 ??  As if all
    the previous releases didn't count.  See my point?  Try counting the
    number of releases again...

>>     If NeXT doesn't do this then their NS-486 will be a failure.  NeXT, if
>>     you can break Microsoft I would be really happy!
>
>	I just want them to be an effective (large) competitor.  Our only
>	real protection as customers is good Standards and a lot of
>	competition.  And I still believe that an effective way to compete
>	against Windows apps is to port NeXTSTEP to NT and let our
>	NeXTSTEP apps compete side-by-side with (mostly) inferior Windows
>	apps.

    Porting NeXTSTEP to Windows would yield a hopelessly slow NextSTEP.
    Windows simply does not have the capabilities of Mach in either
    process management or protection and NextSTEP depends on that
    heavily.

    Porting NeXTSTEP to OS/2 2.0 might be more doable, though.

						-Matt

>Opinions expressed are my own.

    As are mine...

>_/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_ _/	  _/	  _/ _/     _/	 _/_/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/_/_/_/
>_/  cfwaltrip	   _/	 _/_/	 _/ _/_/    _/	     _/     _/	  _/ _/ _/    _/
>_/	  _/_/_/    _/	_/  _/	_/ _/_/_/   _/	     _/     _/_/_/_/ _/ _/_/_/_/
>_/  Internet: <waltrip@capsrv.jhuapl.edu>  _/	     _/     _/	_/   _/ _/
>_/_/_/_/ _/	      _/      _/ _/	 _/ _/_/_/_/ _/     _/	  _/ _/ _/

--

    Matthew Dillon	    dillon@Overload.Berkeley.CA.US
    891 Regal Rd.	    uunet.uu.net!overload!dillon
    Berkeley, Ca. 94708     ham: KC6LVW (no mail drop)
    USA 		    Sandel-Avery Engineering (702)831-8000

Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: gvh@metrosoft.com (Gordon Van Huizen)
Subject: Re: where NeXT would be if it DIDN'T have UNIX (was Don't get rid of UNIX)
Reply-To: gvh@metrosoft.com (Gordon Van Huizen)
Organization: Metrosoft
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 17:37:43 GMT

In article <jyxn9#h.vin@netcom.com> vin@netcom.com (Vin Locke) writes:
> In article <1992Sep2.124037.13464@ms.uky.edu> justin@mik.uky.edu (Justin  
Sullivan) writes:
> > I've often wondered (and maybe it's time to discuss it?)  
> >just where NeXT would be if it DIDN'T have UNIX
> 
> Perhaps another Macintosh-class box with a proprietary OS and a small  
number
> of installed sites.
> 
> 

Well two out of three ain't bad...

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Van Huizen           vox: 619.488.9411  fax: 619.488.3045
Metrosoft                   gvh@metrosoft.com [NeXTmail welcome]
----------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: koelman@cuby.stc.nl (Ton Koelman)
Subject: Re: NeXT vs. (MIDI) Sampler
Reply-To: koelman@stc.nato.int
Organization: SHAPE Technical Centre, NL
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 10:59:50 GMT

In article <1992Sep4.085649.13034@uklirb.informatik.uni-kl.de>  
frerk@informatik.uni-kl.de (Frerk Meyer) writes:
> Is a NeXT (I don't have one) with his DSP Chip a full substitute for
> an of-the-shelf MIDI-driven Sampler (Roland S-550)?
> Do I have to buy additional Software for that use, or is it included?
> Are there large libraries of digisized sounds for the NeXT?

No! NeXT as a sampler/harddisk recorder is a toy. So is NeXT
as a midi sequencer. NeXT dropped the music kit. Wise decision.

--
Ton Koelman   e-mail: koelman@stc.nato.int (NeXT Mail Welcome!)
SHAPE Technical Centre, P.O. Box 174, 2501 CD  The Hague
The Netherlands  (voice: 31-70-3142429, fax: 31-70-3142111)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: songer@lexmark.com (Christopher Songer)
Subject: Re: Nextstep on NT
X-Disclaimer: These views are the poster's and not necessarily those of Lexmark
Organization: Lexington, KY
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1992 14:09:21 GMT

fj05+@andrew.cmu.edu (Faisal Nameer Jawdat) writes:
>
>I don't doubt that NT will quickly replace dos/win as the major LAN
>model, but I doubt it will ever gain a large share in places like
>universities, where Unix dominates, and takes up a large portion of
>the Internet...
>

Unfortunately, this is not the market where most of the money is. As Next
learned early, you don't make a major computer company by just targeting
education. 

It should be interesting to see what happens in the next year or so. It
seems like it will be a temptestuous time for Next. Most of the 
"big buyers" for the 88000 series changed to other chips (Apple, 
Ford, .... ). NT is likely to come out at the same time as NS 486.
(And according to rumor, will be alot cheaper, both in terms of 
system required and actual software cost.) Intel will be releasing
the P5, further blurring the line between workstation and PC.

Interesting Times...

-Chris
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: jmd@cube.handheld.com
Subject: Re: NeXT sighting on NBC!
Reply-To: jmd@cube.handheld.com
Organization: Hand Held Products, Inc.
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 16:28:15 GMT

> In article <1992Sep10.150001.4911@cs.yale.edu> nathan@laplace.biology.yale.edu  
> (Nathan F. Janette) writes:
> > My wife claims that during this morning's NBC Today show
> > the female host (I've lost track of her name) asked Briant
> > Gumbal (sp?) a question while he was off-camera, and as
> 
> Gawd, I hope that bozo wasn't using a NeXT.  What a bummer
> to have such an ego maniac, butthead using a NeXT!!! ;')
> By the way, I spell class 1 a-hole, Bryant GUM-BALL.
> 
> > the camera picked him up for his responce, he was tapping
> > away at a NeXTstation! 
> > 
> > --
> > Nathan Janette                "I'm a NeXTstep man,
> > Dept MB&B, Yale Univ   I'm a NeXTcube guy"
> > New Haven, CT
> > nathan@laplace.biology.yale.edu (NeXT)
> 
> Todd
> 
> 
But tell me, Todd, what do you think of Bryant?  ;-)

Jim
From: simsong@next.cambridge.ma.us (Simson L. Garfinkel)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: Object Oriented File System: Huh??
Date: 7 Sep 92 14:45:21 GMT
Reply-To: simsong@next.cambridge.ma.us
Organization: Simson Garfinkel and Associates, Inc.

In article <2596@tau-ceti.isc-br.com> jimc@tau-ceti.isc-br.com (Jim Cathey)  
writes:
> 
> I've used both systems, and I generally prefer the Mac where you have
> complete freedom in choosing names for files.
> 

As long as you don't put a colon in the file's name.
-- 

................................................................simson
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: jon@afs.com
Subject: Re: New idea:  forget Open Systems.  N(o)T! (was Re: Open...)
Distribution: USA
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 22:57:44 GMT

In article <1992Sep5.120356.1@capd.jhuapl.edu> waltrip@capd.jhuapl.edu writes:
> 
> 	Won't you step forward and join us in the True Light, my son?

I am your father, Luke...

--
Jonathan Hendry  Anderson Financial Systems
jon@afs.com  (Nextmail Welcome!) or hendryjw@duvm.ocs.drexel.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: jbone@splat.dell.com (Jeff Bone)
Subject: Nike commercial spoof (NeXTStep vs. NT)
Organization: Dell Computer Co
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 16:41:40 GMT

standard disclaimers.

You know the commercial, the one with Bo?  Here goes... :)

   So UNIX is a little bit complex...
   SO WHAT?!
   Look what it's doin with that complexity:
   It's fixin dinner.
   It's scrubbin toilets.
   It's spankin the monkey.
   IN FACT, it's fixin dinner WHILE scrubbin toilets,
   AND it's spankin the monkey in its spare cycles!
   And what are you and your simpler OS doing?
   YOU'RE TRYIN TO FIGGER OUT WHY YOUR PACKET DRIVER'S TOAST!
   <knock!> <knock!>
   I think you hear me knockin,
   and I think I'm comin in,
   and I'm bringing UNIX and its big, bad complexity with me.
   Okay?!?!


grinz,



jb


--
-- Jeff Bone ------------------------------------------------------------
      "Imagination is more important than knowledge."  - A. Einstein
------------------------------------------------------- jbone@dell.com --
                                                                       --
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: jbone@splat.dell.com (Jeff Bone)
Subject: Re: Nextstep on NT
Organization: Dell Computer Co
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 16:36:53 GMT


In comp.sys.next.advocacy Chris writes:
>
>My feeling is that NT offers enough of the functionality of UNIX
>to destroy UNIX's bid for the desktop. NT will never replace UNIX -- no
>proprietary system could do that, but it could relgate UNIX to the role 
>of a niche player. 
>

Well, depends on what functionality you mean.  If it looks like UNIX,
it's UNIX --- if not, its not.  It's the total package I'm interested
in, personally.  As for market share...

>To bring the topic back to nexts... There is no question that NT is a 
>monumental improvement over the current OS being used by the majority
>of PC users. NT will probably have good sales, and completely independent
>of its technical merits, will probably garner a large market share. The
>mere fact that it is from MicroSoft, offers all the networking of UNIX,
>offers the OS functionality of UNIX and requires fewer system resources 
>dictates this. One would almost wonder if in the first year it will 
>exceed UNIX's market share.

Well, UNFORTUNATELY it probably will gain enormous market share.  This
is a truly sad thing, IMHO.  Fact is, NT at this point is vapor --- nobody
can do more than speculate on what it can do and how well until it starts
shipping "for real".  Until proven otherwise, I'll assume that, like all
of Microsoft's other products, it's going to be crippled with minimal
functionality. ;)  BUT let's not encourage NeXT, one of the few companies
well poised to compete for that desktop market, to can its product, jump
camp, and effectively give Microsoft a tremendous value-add for free!!!

>So the question is NeXT should port to NT? Certainly if they want to go for
>market share they should. NeXT is primarily a desktop company. NT is probably
>going to be a desktop OS. I don't know the answer, but if they want to go
>for impact on the software world, NT may be the place to be.


See above. ;)  All or nothing, S. Jobs:  I say go for it. 



jb



--
-- Jeff Bone ------------------------------------------------------------
      "Imagination is more important than knowledge."  - A. Einstein
------------------------------------------------------- jbone@dell.com --
                                                                       --
From: gbol@rglnext.geol.vt.edu (Gregory Lampshire)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: OBJECT Query:  NeXTstep QuickTime Object Developer Interest
Date: 13 Sep 92 13:20:48 GMT

In article <1992Sep13.185340.633@prim> prim!dave@germany.eu.net (Dave  
Griffiths) writes:
> In article <1992Sep12.201404.4494@wire.gwinnett.com>  
andrew_abernathy@wire.gwinnett.com (andrew abernathy) writes:
> >In article <1992Sep12.050609.454@liveware.com> todd@liveware.com  
writes:
> >> Dear Netland Programmers,
[stuff deleted]


Sounds like it should be covered under some GNU agreement to make it  
freely available.




--
Gregory Lampshire 
Virginia Tech
Bradley Department of Electrical Engineering
gbol@rglnext.geol.vt.edu (NeXTmail welcome)
------------------------
My opinions are my very own and do not reflect the opinions of any  
employer
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu (Garance A. Drosehn)
Subject: Re: Open Letter: Don't get rid of UNIX
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 21:09:36 GMT

In article <jbone.715623560@splat> jbone@splat.dell.com (Jeff Bone) writes:
> Clarification of something in my last message:  same DISCLAIMER applies:
> 
> I meant:
>    Now --- how about one good reason why people who *NEED* feature set
>    X from UNIX will buy NT to get that feature set rather than buying
>    UNIX?  Your argument is flawed.
> 
> Makes a little more since -w- the missing word in place. ;)  Still a
> pretty nasty sentence all in all.  Point remains:  if you need UNIX,
> or UNIXy features, why buy NT?  Buy UNIX, and get everything else that
> UNIX offers as well...

The problem is there are a lot of things that Unix does not (in general)  
have.  You're talking as if Unix has absolutely everything that the DOS and  
Windows worlds have, and that is simply not true.  If people can move from  
DOS/Windows, and gain the feature sets that are used to promote Unix, and  
*not* lose all the other goodies that they already have in the DOS/Windows  
world, then they have a very good reason for going with Windows NT instead  
of bothering with Unix.

You're touting everything Unix offers (whatever that means), and ignoring  
the much larger world of things (whatever that means) that the personal  
computer platforms already have.

Me, I prefer Macs & NeXT's, but I also have a lot of friends who are working  
in the DOS/Windows world simply because that's where they can make a living.    
They may *hate* Windows, but the user base is large enough that they came  
make a good living off of it.

--
Garance Alistair Drosehn     =     gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu
ITS Systems Programmer            (handles NeXT-type mail)
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute;           Troy NY    USA
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy