From: >>>>>> Anonymous
Newsgroups: soc.culture.iranian
Subject: RE: DEEP RACISM & THOUGHTS [sci-anonymous-poster]
Date: 23 Nov 1992 19:18:59 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA
Distribution: world
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To: sci-anon-poster 



<bavafa@netcom.com>, Hooshyar Naraghi in response to my response to
Saied's response to what Amir said, writes:

>Poor amir khAn had said:
      [                               ]
>shahram replied:
      [                               ]
>What is the truth here?  What is your definition of the majority?  Do
>you mean the majority of all Arabs in the world?

If someone says that for example Indians are good in Mathematics, he 
certainly doesn't mean that the majority of indians are mathematicians.
Neither does he mean that the majority of mathematicians are from India.
It just means that for some reason, like the way some of them demonstrated 
their knowledge, it is very noticeable. The same argument holds if someone
says that Jews are dedicated and hardworking(I am neither jewish nor an
Israeli spy), or that Spanish people are hardworking, etc.

Now you MIGHT say that I am racist and that is why I notice some
unpleasant behaviours only in Arabs. If it is true, then the rest of my
response will clear a few points about the comments that you made and the
comments that you MIGHT make.
 
>I can understand that you are very careful not to be called a racist.  I
>hear you, shahram khAn.  What is your opinion about them?  BTW, when one
>forms an opinion about some people based on observation and it turns out
>the observation is very much the same in other races or ethnic groups,
>then the first breezes of racism can be felt.  And all of that while we
>sincerely believe in ourselves that we were not a racist.
>I have seen all of the above characterizations in almost any human being
>from any country, race, ethnic or religious affiliation.  I guess I have
>a hard time to label above observations as 'arabic.'
>You have convinced me that you are speaking out of observation and not
>racism (BTW, this is the third time so far).  I am only asking you to
>elaborate how you reached the conclusion that above behaviours were 
>indeed arab-specific.  Please!

I didn't say that those behaviours are arab-specific. That is what you
concluded. The discussion was about Arabs, not Africans or Indians.

>I am sure if some day you decide to get out of your place and visit us in
>this California within the territory of the rich at Stanford, you will
>observe that so much money is spent by non-arabs that you will grow
>two shAkhs on your head.  :-)  And the off-springs of those excessive
>spenders 1) do not study and 2) play cards at cafeterias.
          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
            :they don't seem to have a goal in their lives

>ostAd, one of the flaws of racism is that it tends to form an opinion
>based on _observation_ or _hearsay_ of few isolated cases, and pretty
>soon it turns into a universal message (matlab bast-e omoomi peydA mikonad)
>without any solid evidence.  Now, can you tell me more about _their_
>football players?  I am confused because I do not know of a country named
>Arab.

shAgerd, this is a very nice way of criticizing and carrying on a 
discussion. redicule?
  
>     You were talking about Arabs, and not a particular country right?
>So who was playing football against the Iranian football team?  :-)

Ask the football-maniac. He may remember something.

>Oh, I forgot.  Sometimes racism utilizes some distantly past historical
>event to establish its universal point.  The more distant the event, the
>more genuine the claim!

You didn't mention anything about the last paragraph of my posting. You
could have said that my racism had utilized a not-so-distant(couple of years)
historical event to ....

>You mean you haven't said enough about _them_ already!?  :-)
>Racism is a human disease, a very bad one that disintegrates any community,
>city, mahaleh, or even a newsgroup.  A racist person is somebody who,
>consciously or unconsciously, attributes general behaviourial short-comings
>of any people to a certain denomination.

Absolutely. I think it was a few weeks ago that one of the netters in response
to someone else's objection to profanity in some postings said something
like: it is us, it is our culture....    I don't remember exactly, I just
remember the gist of what he said and I agree with him. You didn't call him
racist or traitor or "beegAneh az hoviyat-e melli" or anti Iranian, but
you call me racist for having talked about Arabs. Could it be because you
know him personally but you don't know me? And if that's the case, would
you like to be called prejudice for that?

>Let us hope that we will refer to our consciousness and re-evaluate our
>preconcieved ideas about peoples of the world.

I think that you have been trying to give me your definition of racism.
The way I see, your def. differs from mine.

Now I have a question, just a question out of curiousity. No offense or
anything else is intended. A very close friend of mine is Baha'i.You 
sound very much like him. Are you a member of Baha'i faith too?


>Regards,
>Hooshyar F. Naraghi
>bavafa@netcom.com
>(415) 322-8056


This one is for Babak:

Long live our Persian homeland
shahrAm
( I did not mean to put you and Babak at the same level)
 
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