HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.scuba

jcv26@cas.org (Jon Vander Hill) writes:
> 
> (Not quite a) Dr. Waller or DAN?  You be the judge.

I'd take DAN any day.

Jon, this appears to be an inflammatory swipe at me; is that the way
you intended it?  As I clearly stated in the text from my original
response, I am not a physician, and as such recommended in no uncertain
terms that a diving physician should be consulted.  What point were
you trying to make with the above sentence?  I have no quarrel with
you, but perhaps you're trying to create one.

> When in doubt about diving with a specific medical condition,
> give DAN a call at (919) 684-2948 (non-emergencies).  You don't
> have to be a member to call.

While DAN is a good resource, they cannot be a substitute for an actual
examination by a diving physician. Now, given a third choice,

	1) Dave Waller's off the top of his head opinion,
	2) Call DAN to resolve this question,
	3) An examination by a diving physician

I would say that #3 is the best choice.  DAN is obligated to give this
person the most conservative, worst-case targeted advice.  As with any
physiological condition, exceptions can and are made.  I have a
student in my class right now, for example, that has a past history of
asthma, and as such I am requiring a release from a physician before I
will take this person in the ocean.

As this individual's particular case history is that the asthma was a
childhood problem, and has not reoccurred in the last 13 years, I feel
comfortable telling this person that their chances are good that a
diving physician will grant a release to participate in diving
activities.  However, I don't KNOW that this will be the case.

Based upon the sketchy information as present by the original author,
I stand by my comments, and do not believe that Lyme disease is a
contraindication for diving, no exceptions, period.  Each case must be
evaluated individually on its own merits.

> Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.

Perhaps you should take your own advice.

Dave Waller
YMCA Instructor
From: njs@scifi.uucp (Nicholas J. Simicich)
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
Subject: Re: Which certifications do I want (PADI, NAUI, etc)?
Date: 6 Apr 92 12:54:52 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Nick Simicich, Peekskill, NY

Whoops.  That was a typo on my part.  Please try ames.arc.nasa.gov.

-- 
Nick Simicich - uunet!bywater!scifi!njs - njs@watson.ibm.com
SSI #AOWI 3958, HSA 318, NAUI #14065
Join the movement ---  turn 'to bush' into a verb.
From: glb0270@smarine.UUCP (Guy Babineau)
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
Subject: Re: Scuba Lessons in Peekskill, NY
Date: 14 Apr 92 19:43:58 GMT
Reply-To: glb0270@smarine.UUCP (Guy Babineau)
Organization: Sperry Marine, Inc.

In regards to Dave Whaller's comments about the commercial nature of
the orginal post:

Nick Simicich has become a recognized name in rec.scuba.  
If I lived near Peekskill NY (wherever that is!) and wanted lessons or was
making a referral I would certainly look Nick up.  (His trip to
North Carolina sounds like fun too!)

But it wouldn't be because of his post.  We all see by people's sigs and
comments that certain people are instructors.  Mentioning that you are an
active instructor in a particular area is different from soliciting students.

I would not have been disturbed if the post had been considerably
shortened to the second paragraph which was:

>I'm a scuba instructor, and I'm starting a scuba class on April 9th.
>The classroom sessions will be at my house in Peekskill, NY, and pool
>sessions will be at the Peekskill Middle School.  I'll be offering
>certifications through SSI (Scuba Schools International) or NAUI
>(National Association of Underwater Instructors).

I _personally_ would have no problem if every instructor on rec.scuba made
one such (short) statement at the start of each session.  I think we would all
appreciate if the distribution was limited appropriately.  Tough luck to
those instructors with no access.

I do not think it is appropriate to discuss why a particular instructor
or class of instructors (such as independant) is better than another.

My $.02

Guy L. Babineau	                   ...!uucp!virginia!smarine!medusa!glb0270
From: kirbycb@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
Subject: Power Inflator Second Stages
Date: 9 Apr 92 21:19:06 GMT
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

I've recently seen secondary stages that can be attached to the power 
inflator on your BC. What are opinions on this? Does this device make an 
octopus redundant? Or should one always have an octopus? From the 
discussion of octopus ergonimics it would seem that an octopus is not a 
redundant feature, even with a 2nd stage on the power inflator.
                  Thanks..................Chris  
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
From: jcv26@cas.org (Jon Vander Hill)
Subject: Re: U.S. Navy Diving Manual
Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service, Columbus, Ohio, USA
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 19:41:58 GMT

ps3p+@andrew.cmu.edu (Peter A. Simon) writes:

   Help!  I need a U.S. Navy Diving Manual to use as a reference for
   designing an expert system to diagnose symptoms and recommend the
   correct treatment procedure.  Equally helpful would be a copy of the
   book containing nothing but diagnosis and treatment.  It used to be
   published by an outfit called Hydrospace. Imitations would be gratefully
   accepted.   Does anybody know what I'm talking about that could tell me
   the current name and publisher--it was 5" x 8", looseleaf, water
   resistant paper, cost a bundle?)

   Does anybody have one or know where I could get a copy in Pittsburgh (or
   mail order addresses, address of Compass Publications, Maritime Press,
   etc.?).

The USN Diving Manual is available from US Government Printing Office
bookstores.  I got a copy recently (two volumes, $25 and $35
respectively) from the bookstore here in Columbus, OH.  The catalog
that came with the manuals says there is a GPO bookstore in Pittburgh.
It lists their phone number as 412-644-2721.

Jon Vander Hill
PADI DM, NACD & NSS-CDS Full Cave

--
Jon Vander Hill
jon@cas.org
PADI DM, NACD & NSS-CDS Full Cave
From: F_CNNGHAMJK@CCSVAX.SFASU.EDU (KELLY CUNNINGHAM (AKA RANDOM DEVIATE))
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
Subject: Re: Vote *YES* to commercial advertising on the net!
Date: 16 Apr 92 14:22:49 GMT

From: tjfeue@bb1t.monsanto.com
tjf>
tjf>I've already decided that it is *OK* to advertise commercial
tjf>products and services on rec.scuba and want to get in on
tjf>all the lucrative opportunities, so here goes.
tjf>
tjf>I've got this car for sale and it's great for hauling all that scuba
tjf>gear around....
tjf>
tjf>Need I say more?      ;-)

I think that sums it up, at least for those of us aware of the various agendas.

Randomly,         ____
Kelly Cunningham (_/\_)
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
From: leej@sgi.com (Lee Jones)
Subject: Re: Dive computers
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 01:15:01 GMT

Another satisfied USD Monitor II owner here.
From: tjfeue@bb1t.monsanto.com
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
Subject: Re: Gone to Carolina in my Mind
Date: 13 Apr 92 12:42:36 CST
Distribution: na
Organization: Monsanto Company, St. Louis, MO

In article <1992Apr12.192025.4907@scifi.uucp>, njs@scifi.uucp (Nicholas J. Simicich) writes:
> 
> About Ocracoke Island, according to the brochure:
> 
>       No golf courses, no tennis, no traffic lights, no shopping
>       malls, no boardwalks, no major hotels, and no fast food.  If you
>       need any of the above, Ocracoke is probably not the place for
>       you!  What you will find here is a refreshing quaint atmosphere
>       comprised of 16 miles of National Seashore beaches, protected
>       areas, and a harbor village known as Ocracoke. 

And one of the highest concentrations of Mosquitos in North America!
Bring plenty of DEET...  Nice place though.

  TED FEUERBACH   Scientific Systems Consultant  Trilogy Consulting, Inc. 
  Lake St. Louis, MO        (314) 537-6603       tjfeue@bb1t.monsanto.com
  Disclaimer:  The opinions expressed herein are MY OWN and obviously not
  the opinions of Trilogy, Monsanto or either of my two ex-wives.
From: PRAX@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
Subject: Re: Request for info on fatality in Monterey on Saturday
Date: 9 Apr 92 15:54:57 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center

There was a article in this Sunday's San Jose Mercury news about a diver
that died of an air embolism (sp?) just north of the breakwater (Coast
Guard pier) in Monterey. He was diving with two other buddies and
supposedly ran out of air, surfaced to quickly. He was pulled from the
water with his two buddies by the Coast Guard and transported to a
local hospital; DOA.   That was about all the article said.

Joe Praxel  PRAX@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
From: tjfeue@bb1t.monsanto.com
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
Subject: Where to get De-Certified ;-)
Date: 14 Apr 92 13:52:23 CST
Organization: Monsanto Company, St. Louis, MO

I was reading the DAN mag the other night and a statistic horrified me.
Something like (I don't remember exactly) 10% of diving fatalities last
year were *uncertified* divers.  That means that 90% *WERE* certified.
Where do I go to get de-certified for my own safety?

Save lives, ban the C-card!             ;-)

  TED FEUERBACH   Scientific Systems Consultant  Trilogy Consulting, Inc. 
  Lake St. Louis, MO        (314) 537-6603       tjfeue@bb1t.monsanto.com
  Disclaimer:  The opinions expressed herein are MY OWN and obviously not
  the opinions of Trilogy, Monsanto or either of my two ex-wives.
From: njs@scifi.uucp (Nicholas J. Simicich)
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
Subject: Re: Tanks and GA aircraft
Date: 11 Apr 92 05:17:51 GMT
Organization: Nick Simicich, Peekskill, NY

In article <1992Apr10.151407.19841@cattnts> craig@cattnts (Craig Campbell) writes:

>Minor nit, but isn't a tank hydro'd at 5/3 's (66% above) of its
>working pressure?

Depends on the tank.  Old steel tanks and AL tanks are hydroed at
5/3rds of working pressure.  Genesis steel tanks are hydroed at 50%
over working pressure.




-- 
Nick Simicich - uunet!bywater!scifi!njs - njs@watson.ibm.com
SSI #AOWI 3958, HSA 318, NAUI #14065
Join the movement ---  turn 'to bush' into a verb.
From: miani@ibm1.uucp (Rich Miani)
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
Subject: Re: Scuba Lessons in Peekskill, NY
Keywords: commercial
Date: 14 Apr 92 17:29:04 GMT
Organization: NYNEX S&T


> [ stuff deleted about call for opinion re:advertisement in rec.scuba ]

I thought one of the "net.rules" was no commercial postings of any kind. Does
Nick's posting qualify ? I'm not sure, since I don't remember the content. 
Perhaps it was an answer to a question "Does anybody know an instructor ... ?"

Anyway, on to my Humble Opinion :-)  - I would probably give up 
rec.scuba if it became a advertising forum ....

Just my $0.02 

Rich
From: njs@scifi.uucp (Nicholas J. Simicich)
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
Subject: Re: Info for a very beginer
Date: 11 Apr 92 05:13:22 GMT
Organization: Nick Simicich, Peekskill, NY

In article <29E475F4.2454@noiro.acs.uci.edu> pamiri@uci.edu (Peter Amiri) writes:
>I am new to this group and am concidering taking lessons. My wife and I are
>going on a western carribian cruise in August and afew of the ports I hear are
>very good diving locations. Well here are my questions.
>
>How much does it usually cost to become licenced? 

The word usually used is certified.  $400+ in total, including gear
rentals, boat fees, and so forth.

>What is involved? 

Classroom and pool training for 5-8 weeks, followed by open water
checkout dives.

>would it be cheeper to take lessons on the cruise? 

Depends on the cruise, and whether they have a scuba instruction
program as a come-on.  But do you really want to spend your time
during the cruise taking lessons, sitting in a classroom, and so forth
rather than getting laid back and so forth?

An alternative is to do your lessons up north and then to do your
certification dives on the cruise.  

Bye the way, you'll have to do four dives over a period of two days
with the *same* instructor.  If your boat is moving every day, you'll
not get that chance on the trip.

>Are there different types of certifications that I need to be aware of?

Probably not that you need to be aware of.

>I could really use any information that I can get. Thank you. 

-- 
Nick Simicich - uunet!bywater!scifi!njs - njs@watson.ibm.com
SSI #AOWI 3958, HSA 318, NAUI #14065
Join the movement ---  turn 'to bush' into a verb.
From: root@maspar.ch (Bruno Pape)
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
Subject: Re: dive flags & boaters
Date: 14 Apr 92 10:17:02 GMT
Reply-To: root@maspar.ch (Bruno Pape)
Organization: MasPar Distributor AG, Zurich, Switzerland

Having been a power boater, water skier, and scuba diver I have always
looked upon a dive flag as a double edge sword.  To boaters that under-
stand what it means, it can get you some safe space.  To boaters that
have no idea what the "funny little flag" is for, it is an invitation
to come and take a closer look.

With many states and localities having different regulations and many
boaters traveling between these areas, with many different degrees of
boating experience I would not look to the dive flag to provide any
sort of protection from unknowledgeable power boaters.  Anyway I was
never aware of any certification or training required to operate a
power boat in California, Arizona, Texas, or Connecticut, although I
think Connecticut did have a minimum age limit of something like 14.

To me the dive flag has always been something more along the lines of
a legal requirement, also more applicable some places than others, than
any great form of backside protector.  So use your best judgement
deciding when and where to dive and be aware of the varied meaning
of the dive flag to power boaters, ie. the general public.

Greetings,

Bruno

BTW  boaters have varied reactions to the water ski flag in different
     parts of the U.S. also.  Anyway, to water skiers, anything that
     floats, including diving flags, can make a nice slalom buoy, Ouch!
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
From: jcv26@cas.org (Jon Vander Hill)
Subject: Re: dive flags & boaters
Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service, Columbus, Ohio, USA
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 14:48:08 GMT

In article <1992Apr3.112914.23343@mailer.cc.fsu.edu> mayne@open.cs.fsu.edu (William Mayne) writes:

   In article <2APR199213090362@zeus.tamu.edu> bdd0066@zeus.tamu.edu (Bryan, kick the tire and light the fire, Duke) writes:
   >
   >...LISTEN!! I HEAR A POWER BOAT!!  we turned very quickly and headed
   >straight down.  at about 35 ft., we turned up to see a boat passing
   >pretty close to where we were just seconds before.  we waited for another
   >minute or two--until we were both sure we heard nothing--then headed
   >very slowly again to the surface.  when we got there, we saw that we 
   >were within 50 ft. of our dive flag.

   Why did you come up that far away from your dive flag? I didn't think
   the visibility in Canyon Lake was that good. In such situations I
   follow my line up and surface right next to my dive flag.

Here, here.  My wife and I dive a small, mostly private lake in N.
Indiana which has much boat traffic especially on the weekends.  We
dive in the morning or evening when boat traffic is light.  We use a
power boat to get to our site, anchor, and fly a dive flag on the
boat.  We try to bring a tendor along (we can usually get a non-diver
who wants to get some sun or read a book).  We also tow a float with a
dive flag during the dive.  Towing a float is a minor inconvenience,
but you get used to it with practice.  It gives us some assurance that
we have reasonably safe, direct access to the surface.  Otherwise, we
feel we feel we would need to treat the lake as an overhead
environment with the entry and exit point at the boat.

   Attacking boaters is not the solution. It isn't courteous, it isn't
   reasonable, and it won't help.

And don't forget that some divers are boaters, too! 

--
Jon Vander Hill
jon@cas.org
PADI DM, NACD & NSS-CDS Full Cave
Newsgroups: rec.scuba

fssmith@venus.lerc.nasa.gov (Greg Smith) writes:
> 
> Dave perhaps the stores you frequent are better than most.  I have found
> th mail order savings on name brand identical equipment to be up to 50
> percent.  It makes a huge difference.  I buy stuff from local dive shops
> if their prices are in line.  I would gladly pay a little more for better
> service, to support the local economy, dive shop etc. But I will not
> pay twice as much.  

Mail order places do not provide air fills, or have the concomitant
cost of maintaining a compressor. They do not service regulators (or at
least none that I am aware of). These are just two extremely important
services that dive shops provide, that without the shops we're shit out
of luck.

I am not trying to say that your decision to purchase equipment
through mail order is "wrong".  What I am criticizing is the view that
dive shops are somehow ripping people off and making out like bandits.
This simply is not the case, as the vast majority of owners and
employees are living on rather low wages, the primary reason for their
continued participation in the industry being their love for diving.

One point that is indisputable about divers who never darken the doors
of a dive shop to make major equipment purchases but instead make them
all through mail order is that they are riding on the backs of those
that do patronize the dive shop for purchases, as these folk are
essentially subsidizing the shop services that the mail order folk are
using.  For example, air fills are not a profitable portion of a shops
business, yet they are a required service that we all use.

Greg, you're free to make whatever purchasing decisions you like, and
I don't hold any serious negative opinions about you, or anyone else,
who chooses mail order as their purchase medium.  However, dive shops
are not in general cash cows, but are instead just staying barely in
the black in most cases.  I think that it is important to understand
what the TRUE costs are to keeping this sport alive and viable, and I
make my own decisions based upon all those factors, not simply the
price I pay for a piece of equipment.

One contributing factor to my becoming an instructor, albeit one of
the minor ones, was the availability of equipment through a dive shop
at substantially reduced prices.  It is my informed and considered
opinion that with all aspects considered, I get more value for my
money buying equipment at dive shops (at regular diver prices, not
instructor prices) than the value I get for a smaller outlay for
equipment from a mail order house.  By being an instructor, I can
offset some of that monetary cost by contributing my time to the
industry, and bringing business in for a dive shop (any shop in the
area...  I am not tied contractually to any particular place).

You make a different cost/benefit analysis, and come up with different
conclusions.

Dave Waller
YMCA Instructor
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
From: dmadeo@is.morgan.com (David Madeo)
Subject: Re: Info for a very beginer
Organization: Morgan Stanley & Company
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 01:32:25 GMT

In article <1992Apr11.051322.13865@scifi.uucp> njs@scifi.uucp (Nicholas J. Simicich) writes:
Path: is1.is.morgan.com!s5!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!gatech!news.ans.net!yktnews!admin!bywater!scifi!njs
   From: njs@scifi.uucp (Nicholas J. Simicich)
   Newsgroups: rec.scuba
   Date: 11 Apr 92 05:13:22 GMT
   References: <29E475F4.2454@noiro.acs.uci.edu>
   Organization: Nick Simicich, Peekskill, NY
   Lines: 39

   In article <29E475F4.2454@noiro.acs.uci.edu> pamiri@uci.edu (Peter Amiri) writes:
   >I am new to this group and am concidering taking lessons. My wife and I are
   >going on a western carribian cruise in August and afew of the ports I hear are
   >very good diving locations. Well here are my questions.

   >would it be cheeper to take lessons on the cruise? 

   Depends on the cruise, and whether they have a scuba instruction
   program as a come-on.  But do you really want to spend your time

I just took a Western Carribean cruise in March.  Royal Caribbean (and
from what I can tell the others as well) doesn't offer lessons though
they do offer Shore excursions that include diving if you are already
certified.  On the week-long cruise I was on, that amounted to one 4
hour trip in Grand Cayman.  

   >I could really use any information that I can get. Thank you. 

I'm not certified yet, but after spending most of the week snorkelling
as much as I could, I'm looking for a class now.  My advice would be
to stick to snorkelling on the cruise because of the amount of time in
port.

dmadeo

dmadeo@is.morgan.com   This is a standard disclaimer
From: tjfeue@bb1t.monsanto.com
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
Subject: Re: Portable compressors.
Date: 7 Apr 92 13:50:12 CST
Organization: Monsanto Company, St. Louis, MO

A dive shop in Midland, Michigan (Seaquatics) has a custom built, dual
axle trailer that has over 30 HP storage cylinders and a pneumatic amp
(ram) to fill tanks on trips.  It has enough yokes to fill 8 or 10
tanks at once.  The trailer is a heavy son-of-a-bitch but is will
last an entire weekend of open water classes with a 20 students, 
divemasters and instructors. Using a small portable would take a 
lot of time to fill all those tanks. 

For fills on remote trips, I'm modifying my utility trailer to have 
3 HP storage cylinders on a cascade under a false floor.  An industrial
gas place thinks that they can get me large tanks that take 4500psi,
but they are *expensive*.  I plan to use it when I go to the Upper
Peninsula of Michigan to do some UW prospecting in Lake Superior
this summer.  I think that I can finally make this #%$*&#&$% sport
to *PAY ME* for a change!!!!!!   :-)    

For those who don't know how the cascade works, you have say three
cylinders that are full, hooked into a manifold.  You open one tank
and fill your tanks until they reach full pressure.  When that 
storage cylinder will no longer fill a tank full, you close that
valve and open the second one and use some of the higher pressure 
air to top the tank.  When the second tank will no longer fill the
tank full, you use low pressure air from the first tank, close the
valve, open the second tank valve and fill it as full as possible,
close the valve and then top it off with the third tank... and so 
on.  This gives you more full fills that using them individually.

  TED FEUERBACH   Scientific Systems Consultant  Trilogy Consulting, Inc. 
  Lake St. Louis, MO        (314) 537-6603       tjfeue@bb1t.monsanto.com
  Disclaimer:  The opinions expressed herein are MY OWN and obviously not
  the opinions of Trilogy, Monsanto or either of my two ex-wives.           
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