HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bg055@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Stewart Rowe)
Newsgroups: alt.save.the.earth,sci.environment
Subject: Re: Paper Question
Date: 25 Dec 1992 00:10:41 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Let's assume that that 8" dia. tree has a usable 7" dia. after
debarking. For a 30 ft. bole, this calculates to 8 cu. ft. of wood,
weighing about 450 lbs. At 40% yield of fiber, this would produce
179 lbs. of pulp, which is 11.1 trees per ton.
 Of course, choosing a tree 1" smaller in diameter will produce
a number approaching the "17 trees per ton" which has been bandied
about for years.
  At the other extreme of 30" diameter and 100 ft. usable bole, 
you get about 11000 lb. of fiber. This may not occur often these
days, but I have seen trees that
size being harvested for paper in Oregon and sections of them
being debarked in paper mills -- perhaps today they ship them to
Japan!
-Stewart Rowe usr2210a@cbos.uc.edu   srowe@igc.org
Xref: sparky alt.save.the.earth:1451 sci.environment:14008
From: bg055@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Stewart Rowe)
Newsgroups: alt.save.the.earth,sci.environment
Subject: Re: Paper Question
Date: 30 Dec 1992 01:13:39 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Gary Coffman said: "pulpwood weighs about 22 lbs. per cu. ft."
 
Something amiss here. Since _water_ weighs 62.4 lb. per cu. ft., 
that pulpwood would be floating mighty high!
Newsgroups: alt.save.the.earth,talk.environment
From: b_nbca@icarus.lbl.gov (Bruce Nordman)
Newsgroups: alt.save.the.earth,sci.environment
Subject: Re: Paper Question
Date: 24 Dec 1992 01:03:46 GMT
Organization: lbl
Distribution: world
Reply-To: b_nbca@icarus.lbl.gov (Bruce Nordman)
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.12.154

In article <BzqH6w.BJ8@willamette.edu>, mhodson@willamette.edu (Matthew Hodson)
writes:
|> I have a problem for all of you.  I work for the administrative computing
|> department at Willamette University.  In the last two months, we have used
|> aproximately 100,000 sheets of 11x14 greenbar paper.  I have calculated that
|> to be 1750 lbs.  My question is, how many trees gave their life to print out
|> the afore mentioned 100,000 sheets?

There is a universally-mentioned figure of "17 trees/ton", but I've
never been satisfied that that means much (or if it is even correct).

I'd like someone to do the calculation for land-use requirements
for paper production, that is, how much final-product can one grow
per unit of land area per year?

Bruce Nordman
B_Nordman@lbl.gov
Newsgroups: alt.save.the.earth
From: tjones@willamette.edu (Tyler Jones)
Subject: Manufacturing suggestion
Organization: Willamette University, Salem OR
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 01:40:26 GMT


-- 
[ tjones@willamette.edu                    ]
[ aka N7XIF                       _________]
[ \_________      WILL U SKATE  _/         ]
[ _0_____0_________/\/\/\/\/\/\/           ]
From: zaphod@teb.larc.nasa.gov (Lyle D. Sanders)
Newsgroups: alt.save.the.earth
Subject: Re: Ticket America
Date: 21 Dec 1992 15:21:04 GMT
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA  USA
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: teb.larc.nasa.gov

In article <1992Dec13.162013.11055@doug.cae.wisc.edu>, burvil@hp-18.cae.wisc.EDU (Burvil B Chang) writes:
|> 
|>    Hey, I think this gas guzzler campaign is pretty cool, but
|> we must realize that most people who drive gas guzzlers don't
|> actually like polluting the environment and wasting gas; 
|> rather, they often don't have the money to buy a more efficient,
|> car.  Also, would buses, trucks that collect recyclables, and van 
|> pools be counted as gas guzzlers? I would think they would be 
|> helping the environment by reducing the amount of cars on the road.
|> People often take road trips with their vans, as opposed to flying
|> (Jet airplanes pollute the most, per mile traveled).

But most jet airplanes (airliners) carry more than one hundred
people.  Is the pollution from a jet more than one hundred times
than of a car, on a per mile basis?

|> Cars and trucks are needed, even by environmentalists. I agree 
|> that people should be made more aware of the health and environ-
|> mental threats, but we can't be hypocritical.  In addition, 
|> we must consider the fact that, in the event of an accident,
|> a bigger car is safer.

If the big car owners are so concerned with safty, then why do I see
so many of then NOT wearing seat belts?  In an accident, I'd rather
be in a small car with my seat belt ON than in a big (or any) car
without a seat belt.  I'll not even mention air bags and anti-lock
brakes.

|> 	What we should do is, in addition to the current goals, 
|> encourage people to use public transportation and if they must drive,
|> to educate people on how to get maximum mileage out of their car,
|> etc.    
|> 
|> 	Most of all, we must not look like 'eco-freaks'; most people
|> would get turned off by a bunch of college students running around
|> and chastising people for not owning the right car. in that case, 
|> we would be getting nothing done. 

I agree with that!  The Rush Limbaugh types already say
"environmentalist" like they have a lower opinion of us
than they do of communist or homosexuals, if that is
possible.  (But then I don't care what Rush "The Nazi"
Limbaugh thinks.)

|> 					Burvil


--  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --

Lyle D. Sanders                                      L.D.Sanders@LaRC.NASA.GOV
UNISYS Government Systems Inc.                                  (128.155.4.44)
Mail Stop 157-B                                      (804) 864-7470 VOICE
NASA Langley Research Center                         (804) 864-7604 FAX
Hampton, VA 23681-0001
______________________________________________________________________________

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who endowed us with sense,
reason and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."   -- Galileo Galilei
______________________________________________________________________________
Xref: sparky alt.save.the.earth:1443 sci.environment:13840
From: mhodson@willamette.edu (Matthew Hodson)
Newsgroups: alt.save.the.earth,sci.environment
Subject: Paper Question
Date: 23 Dec 92 22:30:32 GMT
Article-I.D.: willamet.BzqH6w.BJ8
Organization: Willamette University, Salem OR

I have a problem for all of you.  I work for the administrative computing
department at Willamette University.  In the last two months, we have used
aproximately 100,000 sheets of 11x14 greenbar paper.  I have calculated that
to be 1750 lbs.  My question is, how many trees gave their life to print out
the afore mentioned 100,000 sheets?

-- 
_____________________________________________________________________________
A message from mhodson@willamette.edu (the !greatest univ. in Salem)         
H     H  EEEEEEE  DDDD    GGGGGGG    EEEEEEE  H     H   OOOOO   GGGGGGGG  
H     H  E        D   D   G          E        H     H  OO    O  G
Xref: sparky alt.save.the.earth:1447 sci.environment:13873
From: bg055@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Stewart Rowe)
Newsgroups: alt.save.the.earth,sci.environment
Subject: Re: Paper Question
Date: 24 Dec 1992 22:12:12 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


The question was asked: how many trees are required to make a given
amount of paper.
 There are some approximate parameters from which one can make a calculation.
In the southern plain, trees are normally harvested at 20 years of age,
and you get a usable bole about 8 inches diameter and 30 feet long.
One can assume 0.9 density for the wood. Yield of bleached pulp runs
40 to 50% of the weight of the wood.
  At the finished product end, you are probably talking paper with a
basis weight of 20 pounds per 3000 sq. ft. From this you can
calculate the amount of fiber required.
 I remember getting about 14 trees per ton the last time this came up
on the net. Clearly, in the Pacific Northwest where the usable bole may
be 30 inches in diameter and 100 feet long, you might get as low as
0.5 tree per ton.
  If Bruce Nordman doesn't beat me to it, I'll check these calculations
off-line and re-post them.
-Stewart Rowe usr2210a@cbos.uc.edu   srowe@igc.org
Xref: sparky alt.save.the.earth:1444 sci.environment:13841
From: dave@intercon.com (Dave Saunders)
Newsgroups: alt.save.the.earth,sci.environment
Subject: Re: Paper Question
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 18:06:05 -0500
Organization: InterCon Systems Corporation
Distribution: world
Reply-To: dave@intercon.com (Dave Saunders)
NNTP-Posting-Host: dave.intercon.com
X-Newsreader: InterCon TCP/Connect II 1.1b26

In article <BzqH6w.BJ8@willamette.edu>, mhodson@willamette.edu (Matthew 
Hodson) writes:
> I have a problem for all of you.  I work for the administrative 
> computing department at Willamette University.  In the last two months, 
> we have used aproximately 100,000 sheets of 11x14 greenbar paper.  I 
> have calculated that to be 1750 lbs.  My question is, how many trees 
> gave their life to print out the afore mentioned 100,000 sheets? 

The important question is: How many trees can be saved by modifying the 
printing needs of Willamette University? It is foolish to assume that people 
are going to stop printing system logs and such because of the impact on 
trees. However, it is not unreasonable to propose a more conservative paper 
consumption plan that will save money (talk their language) and save a share 
of the environment.

Dave




----------------------------------
Dave Saunders <dave@intercon.com>
InterCon Systems Corporation
"Standards-based networking for a standards-based world"
When your IQ rises to 28, sell. --Professor Irwin Corey to a heckler
From: sotoc@cdl02.me.msu.edu (Ciro Soto)
Newsgroups: alt.emusic
Subject: FOR SALE:  RHYTHM  COMPOSER
Date: 27 Dec 92 18:56:07 GMT
Organization: College of Engineering, Michigan State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: cdl02.me.msu.edu


WHAT:   RHYTHM COMPOSER  (MIDI)
MAKER:  ROLAND
MODEL:  TR-626


CHARACTERISTIC:
48 PRESET RHYTHIM PATTERNS
48 USERS PROGRAMMABLE RHYTHIM PATTERNS
40 TO 240 BEATS PER MINUTE
6 TRACKS
1 TO 16 STEPS
ACCENT (-3 to +3)
PITCH  (-7 to +7)
LEVEL (0 to +5)
DRUM VOICES: 	bass drum 1,2;snare drum 1,2,3; low,high timbale;
		low,mid,high tom 1,2; open high conga, low conga;
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		cup; rim shot; hand clap; claves; mute hi conga;
		shaker; cowbell; tambourine; low,high agogo;
REAR PANEL:	Mono/Stereo out jack (R) & (L)
		Headphone jack
		Multi out jacks
		Start/Stop Jack
		Trigger Out Jack
		tape in/out jack
		Tape sync in jack
		Tape sync out jack
		MIDI IN connector
		MIDI OUT connector
		Memory Card Slot
		AC Adaptor Jack (9V)
DIMENSIONS:	400x194x55 mm
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ACCESORIES:	MEMORY CARD M-128D !!
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(NO AC ADAPTOR)

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MAKE OFFER DIRECTLY TO   sotoc@egr.msu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.emusic
From: toker@marvin (The Toker)
Subject: Looking for Niel Young biography
Organization: Heart of Gold Institute
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 23:22:50 GMT


Sorry im posting this here but we dont get any other musical newsgroup.
Well to get to the point, im looking for some good niel young biography
i need a name of the book and name of author so i can order from here. (israel)

anyone who can help please EMAIL me (not post..! ) @:
Toker@marv.technion.ac.il

much obliged. Toker.
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center
Date: Saturday, 2 Jan 1993 09:53:14 EST
From: <I59LG@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Newsgroups: alt.cobol
Subject: WHY COBOL FOR THE 90's

ATTN:

     I am starting to study COBOL now, and sometime I ponder over why we need a
 language like COBOL when there are so many other (languages) that can accompli
sh the same task.  These languages are also portable on most PC's.  I believe b
y using an  "old" language  like COBOL,is not worth the time; of course this mi
ght lead to a Debate but I'm ready!


                                    THANX <<<


                               -=( ULTRA-RES )=-
From: bob@consult.UUCP (Bob Willey)
Newsgroups: alt.cobol
Subject: Re: Re; Why COBOL for the 90's
Date: 3 Jan 93 13:22:37 GMT
Reply-To: bob@consult.UUCP (Bob Willey)
Distribution: usa
Organization: CCS Enterprises, Inc.


In article <93002.095314I59LG@CUNYVM.BITNET> you write:

>     I am starting to study COBOL now, and sometime I ponder over why we need a
> language like COBOL when there are so many other (languages) that can accompli
>sh the same task.  These languages are also portable on most PC's.  I believe b
>y using an  "old" language  like COBOL,is not worth the time; of course this mi
>ght lead to a Debate but I'm ready!
>                               -=( ULTRA-RES )=-

Cobol is an older language, but still very much usable and a very viable
option for many business functions.  It is very suited to business applications
and there are thousands of applications written in Cobol to take advantage
of.  I know that many people are touting that 4GL's are the answer to all
things, but I don't think so.  I have seen several vendors take their
cobol applications and try to port them to a 4GL (Informix, Progress, etc.)
to gain productivity, and it still takes them 2-4 YEARS to convert the
application.  This does not sound like productivity to me.
Yes, Cobol is wordy in the data division, but with copy books, it is still
very workable.  

There are hundereds of languages now available and everyone has their own
favorite.  So this is as much a "religious personal choice type of question" 
as it is an academic one.  You will probably get some heavy responses
to your post.


-- 
>.. Bob Willey, CDP          ..  |  ..  uunet!consult!bob  bob@ccs.com   ..<
>.. CCS Enterprises, Inc.    ..  |  ..   Office: (410) 820-4670          ..<
>.. P.O. Drawer 1690         ..  |  ..      FAX: (410) 476-5261          ..<
>.. Easton, Maryland 21601 ......|......... BBS: (410) 476-5098 ...........<
From: Bruce.Feist@f615.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Bruce Feist)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: alt.cobol
Subject: Re; Why COBOL for the 90's
Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1993 19:58:42 -0500

Hello Drake!

 D> I'm just starting out in COBOL; could I have a few
 D> examples where the advantage of COBOL is clearly shown?

COBOL is pretty much unsurpassed at describing data (PL/1 does about as well).
I'm not talking user-defined data types or complex structures here; I'm talking
about describing file layouts.  This makes it easy to access data residing in
files, and also simplifies report generation.  To build a line of a report, you
just issue assignment statements filling out the different fields.  In C, in
contrast, the best approach is probably to use a rather complex (due to the need
to align columns) fprintf() call.  And, if any of your data is in a type not
supported by C (for instance, packed decimal), it gets even messier.

A related advantage is COBOL's skill at defining the format of data at the field
level.  You can cause commas or other characters to be inserted at appropriate
places, for instance, without doing any special manipulation of the data.

Bruce
From: bob.noyes@spacebbs.com (Bob Noyes) 
Newsgroups: alt.cobol
Subject: WHY COBOL FOR THE 90's
Date: 3 Jan 93 18:02:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: SPACE BBS - Menlo Park, CA - 10 Lines + 4gB - 415-323-4193
Reply-To: bob.noyes@spacebbs.com (Bob Noyes) 

<<***** On 01-02-93, <I59LG@CUNYVM.BITNET> wrote to ALL: *****>>
>Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center
>Date: Saturday, 2 Jan 1993 09:53:14 EST
>From: <I59LG@CUNYVM.BITNET>
>Message-ID: <93002.095314I59LG@CUNYVM.BITNET>
>Newsgroups: alt.cobol
>Subject: WHY COBOL FOR THE 90's
>
>ATTN:
>
>     I am starting to study COBOL now, and sometime I ponder over why we
need a
> language like COBOL when there are so many other (languages) that can
accompli
>sh the same task.  These languages are also portable on most PC's.  I
believe b
>y using an  "old" language  like COBOL,is not worth the time; of course
this mi
>ght lead to a Debate but I'm ready!
>
>
>                                    THANX <<<
>
>
>                               -=( ULTRA-RES )=-
>                                                                   
COBOL, for all its shortcomings "can be a self-documenting language" as is
widely written and understood. Just as there are "better" languages than
English, there are "better" languages than COBOL. Butu what language? COBOL
is here, does file handling, report writing and nnumber manipulation very
well and is pretty portable, beinbg found as many places as "C" and Pascal,
more places than BASIC and has been around for years. Those abilities it has
been lacking are gradually being intorduced, such as case statements. It is
easier to teach these things to COBOL coders than re-educate all of them.
And, ot pays the rent.





---
. VbReader V1.2  .This is not the dress rehearsal
                                                                                                                              
----
SPACE BBS - Menlo Park, CA - 10 Lines - BoardWatch Top Ten BBS
415-323-4193 (v.32bis) - 4gB (50,000 files) + Wx, UPI News, etc.
Newsgroups: alt.cobol
From: rich@mks.com (Rich Jones)
Subject: COBOL 85 Spec
Organization: Mortice Kern Systems Inc., Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 16:54:53 GMT

Does anyone know where I can get one?

Rich.
-- 
Richard Jones                  ||  // // ,' /~~~\'  35 King Street North
Technical Support             /||/// //\\   `\\\   Waterloo, Ontario
_____________________________/ | //_//  \\|\___/  Canada  N2J 2W9
rich@mks.com          MORTICE KERN SYSTEMS INC.  (519) 884-2251
Newsgroups: alt.cobol
From: jfid@mfltd.co.uk (James Fidell (x5320))
Subject: Re: COBOL 85 Spec
Organization: Micro Focus Ltd., Newbury, UK
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 10:47:35 GMT


In article <1992Dec23.015229.13642@tandem.com>, Don Nelson <nelson_don@comm.tandem.com> writes:
> 
> PS.  What is a FAQ?

Frequently Asked Question.

Groups such as comp.lang.c (and many others) maintain a list of these (with
answers, obviously), posted reqularly and archived at well-advertised sites,
in order to keep down the amount of bandwidth used to answer common questions.

Since the bandwidth in this group isn't too high anyway, it's probably not
that necessary.

James.
-- 
 "Yield to temptation --             |
  it may not pass your way again"    |     jfid@mfltd.co.uk
                                     |
        - Lazarus Long               |              James Fidell
Newsgroups: alt.cobol
From: drake+@cs.cmu.edu (Drake)
Subject: Re: Re; Why COBOL for the 90's
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 07:32:55 GMT

In article <C08o4v.BpL@csn.org> spolsky@teal.csn.org (Steven Polsky) writes:

>2) For business applications, COBOL gets the job done easily.  Its such
>a simple language to work with. Scientific applications are another story.
>However, if I need to generate a report, I'd rather use COBOL that C.

I agree.  However, I'm just starting out in COBOL; could I have a few
examples where the advantage of COBOL is clearly shown?

>3) Object COBOL is coming!

This would be cool...any more specific information?


-- 
Love and Laughter,             | NOTE: Private mail must go explicitly
Xeper and Remanifest,          | to drake@seismo.soar.cs.cmu.edu
                       DRAKE   | or it'll bounce back to you...
Newsgroups: alt.cobol
From: Don Nelson <nelson_don@comm.tandem.com>
Subject: Re: COBOL 85 Spec
X-Xxdate: Tue, 22 Dec 92 03:04:32 GMT
Organization: Tandem Computers
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d7
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 01:52:29 GMT

In article <1992Dec22.211643.20260@dg-rtp.dg.com> A. Jing Hippy,
cochran@spam.rtp.dg.com writes:
>In article <1992Dec22.165453.25608@mks.com>, rich@mks.com (Rich Jones)
writes:
>|> Does anyone know where I can get one?
>
>(Should we start a FAQ for this group?  NO, that was not the sound of me
>volunteering.)
>
>Yes!  Send $40.00 (American) to:
>
>American National Standards Institute
>1430 Broadway
>New York, New York, 10018
>
>
>Ask them to send you ANSI X3.23-1985, "Programming Language COBOL", and
it's
>all yours.
>
You can order by phone by calling (212) 642-4900.  The cost is more 
than $40 in that shipping charges and such are included.  If your 
company is an ANSI member there is a discount.  And so on.  In 
addition, you need the Intrinsic Function Amendment (I lost the 
number).  And, to be even more complete, you might want to get the 
correction amendment (it is now in public review).

Don Nelson
COBOL Development, Tandem Computers, Inc
ex-Chariman, CODASYL COBOL Committee
nelson_don@comm.tandem.com

PS.  What is a FAQ?
Newsgroups: alt.cobol
From: spolsky@teal.csn.org (Steven Polsky)
Subject: Re; Why COBOL for the 90's
Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 18:17:18 GMT


OK, how about this:

1) There are a zillion COBOL programs already out there and they need to be
maintained. It may be easier to modify a program that re-write it if the
modifications are minor.

2) For business applications, COBOL gets the job done easily.  Its such
a simple language to work with. Scientific applications are another story.
However, if I need to generate a report, I'd rather use COBOL that C.

3) Object COBOL is coming!

Well, those are my 3 ideas for 'why COBOL in the 90's.' 

Steve Polsky
spolsky@csn.org
Newsgroups: alt.cobol
From: cochran@spam.rtp.dg.com (A. Jing Hippy)
Subject: Re: COBOL 85 Spec
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 21:16:43 GMT
Organization: A Suffusion of Yellow

In article <1992Dec22.165453.25608@mks.com>, rich@mks.com (Rich Jones) writes:
|> Does anyone know where I can get one?

(Should we start a FAQ for this group?  NO, that was not the sound of me
volunteering.)

Yes!  Send $40.00 (American) to:

American National Standards Institute
1430 Broadway
New York, New York, 10018


Ask them to send you ANSI X3.23-1985, "Programming Language COBOL", and it's
all yours.

+--------------------------------------------------+
|Dave Cochran, Data General Corporation, RTP, NC   |
|cochran@dg-rtp.dg.com                             |
+--------------------------------------------------+
|"Reality is nothing but a collective hunch."      |
|                                   --Lily Tomlin  |
+--------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: alt.cobol
From: pace@calspan.com (Tom Pace)
Subject: EOF adjustiment during sequential writes
Keywords: eof
Organization: Calspan Advanced Technology Center
Distribution: global
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 03:27:00 GMT

Problem: Have four realtime cobol processes writing to a sequential file.
During the processing the EOF indicator is not moved until any one of the
processes closes the file.  On a crash the data is lost.  How would I
go about telling a Cobol program to "advance" the eof marker after each write?

Note: RMS flush command cannot be used since this requires that all channels
are clear.  A kludge would be a fifth process periodically opening and closing
the file.  Million transactions a day.  Assume no RdB or transaction processor
available.

Note2: This is VMS Cobol using RMS file system.

Tom
PS This problem was posed to me by a friend in need.:wq

Newsgroups: alt.sewing