HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bharat@cs.uiuc.edu (R. Bharat Rao)
Subject: Re: Comments: Ind vs RSA: ODI-3
Reply-To: bharat@cs.uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 19:18:47 GMT

pvr@argo.rice.edu (PVR Narasimha Rao) writes:
>In article <Bz619n.63E@cs.uiuc.edu>, bharat@cs.uiuc.edu (R. Bharat Rao) writes:
>|> pvr@argo.rice.edu (PVR Narasimha Rao) writes:

>|> >IMHO, this will be the best batting orer:
>|> 
>|> >Raman, Jadeja, Amre/Manjrekar, Sachin, Azza, Shastri, Kapil, More,
>|> >Prabhakar, Srinath, Kumble

>|> I think this will be what happens for th next game (with Manjrekar in)
>|> with one exception.  I think you will see Raju playing.  If India was


>You think you will see Raju playing!!?? In whose place?? Definitely not
>Kumble's. He's doing better than Raju did in Aus. If you were pissed off
>with Kumble's 38 runs off 10 overs in the first ODI, you must realize
>that it was still not much worse than Raju's average performance in Aus
>(40 runs off 10 overs)! Kumble was economical in the second ODI. I don't
>know his stats in the 3rd, but he got the vital wicket of Wessels. BTW,
>Raju's stats against RSA in WC were 6-0-43-0. And, that was the only
>time he played againsdt them.

Yup -- it sure seems fair to compare the two.  Never mind that it was
on totally different pitches.  more importantly, the first ODI was a
comparatively low scoring affair where the batsmen struggled.  If
memory serves me right the WCup game was a 30 over slugfest (on a
small ground?) where RSA hammered every Indian bowler.

Any way, my desire to switch the two (and yes Raju in place of Kumble
and not Srinath -- in RSA one front line spinner and 3 pacies is the
right mix, IMO) was simply that while Kumble has been decent in the
ODIs, his performance has not been sterling to the point that he is
assured of his place in all 7 ODIs.

>Bharat, did Raju give you his ball with his signature on it or what? :-)

Incidentally, PVR it just may, just may possibly be the case that
every Tom, Dick, and Rao who disagrees slightly with your exalted
opinions about Kumble (and SRT), does not have an axe to grind, or
some hidden agenda. 

The world would be tremendously boring if everyone agreed 100%, and it
may once in a very rare while be the case that someone who disagrees
with you about some trifling matter may have some reasons (perhaps
poor reasons, but reasons nevertheless) that have nothing to do with
unprofessionalism, parochialism, etc.

>PVR

Cheers,

Bharat

-- 
R. Bharat Rao                         E-mail: bharat@cs.uiuc.edu
AI Group, Beckman Institute for Advanced Science and Technology
405 N. Mathews, Urbana, IL 61801   (217)-333-5978 (O), 337-6498(H)
Electrical & Computer Engineering, University of Illinois, Urbana
From: vaghela@laxatv.reo.dec.com (Umesh Vaghela)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.cricket
Subject: Re: Latest 6th ODI scores from SA...
Keywords: no cookies, not now, never ever....
Date: 17 Dec 92 13:45:14 GMT
Reply-To: vaghela@laxatv.reo.dec.com (Umesh Vaghela)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation



South Africa vs India, 6th D/N, Kingsmead, Durban, 17/12/92

              South Africa                               India

Hudson     c Yadav b Kapil     15 ( 29)  Jadeja
Wessels  * not out             35 ( 62)  Prabhakar
Kirsten  - not out             13 ( 31)  Manjrekar
Rhodes                                   Azhar
Callaghan                                Tendulkar
"a.b" [New file]                         Shastri
Richardsn                                Kapil
Matthews                                 Sharma
Pringle                                  Yadav
Donald                                   Kumble
DVilliers                                Raju
Extras  (W: 0 N: 1 B: 0 LB: 0)  1        Extras  (W: 0 N: 0 B: 0 LB: 0)
Total  (R:3.20  O:20.0)        64 / 1    Total  (R:0.00  O: 0.0) 0/0

                   Ov   M  R  Wi Wd Nb
Prabhakar          5.0  1  25  0  0  1
Kapil              6.0  4   3  1  0  0
Sharma          -  4.0  0  19  0  0  0
Raju            *  5.0  1  17  0  0  0

Kapil is the only bowler holding back the S.Africans.

--
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|                            Umesh Vaghela                                |
|                Digital Equipment Corporation - Reading, Berks, UK       |
|                                                                         |
| 	Userid : vaghela@marvin.enet.dec.com				  |
|          	 vaghela@laxatv.reo.dec.com                               |
|          	 vaghela@wikkit.enet.dec.com                              |
|									  |
|All views & opinions expressed here are entirely my own and NOT digital's|
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.sport.cricket
From: nemanra@eng.auburn.edu (Rajasekhar V. Nemani)
Subject: 4th ODI IND/SA
Reply-To: nemanra@eng.auburn.edu
Organization: Auburn University Engineering
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 00:50:20 GMT

Can any one let us know what is happening in 4th ODI at J.berg between IND/SA.
Thanks in advance.
From: vasanth@zephyr.larc.nasa.gov (Vasanth Tovinkere)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.cricket
Subject: Re: Dougie !!! One more node
Date: 17 Dec 1992 17:39:57 GMT
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA  USA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: zephyr.larc.nasa.gov


>  Currently you can finger vasanth@mistral.larc.nasa.gov to
>  get latest updates.

>  If you have 'dougie' you can get live updates by running
>  dougie mistral.larc.nasa.gov 1890
  
    Some of you may have tried to connect at this port address.
  However, this changes with each connect. In order to have the
  current port address, finger vasanth@mistral.larc.nasa.gov !!!

  -vasanth
 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.cricket
From: ksrao@power.ee.ndsu.nodak.edu
Subject: All Score cards
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 20:18:21 GMT
Reply-To: ksrao@power.ee.ndsu.nodak.edu
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computing Network

     Complete scorecards of the five ODIs between Ind and SA and some of the
WSC matches are in rec.sport.cricket.scores. From what I understand, we will be
getting complete scorecards with a few hours delay in r.s.c.s

Rao

K. Sankara Rao                          e-mail k.srao@power.eee.ndsu.nodak.edu

Department of Electrical Engineering
Fargo, ND 58105  USA

Phone:  (701)237-7217  (o)
        (701)235-9912  (h)
From: thakar@nauvax.ucc.nau.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.cricket
Subject: Ind 172/5 Kapil out
Date: 11 Dec 92 13:05:43 GMT
Organization: Northern Arizona University


Raman 102 and Shastri 1.   6 overs to go.

Utpal
Newsgroups: rec.sport.cricket
From: bharat@cs.uiuc.edu (R. Bharat Rao)
Subject: Re: Comments: Ind vs RSA: ODI-3
Reply-To: bharat@cs.uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 21:34:34 GMT

pvr@argo.rice.edu (PVR Narasimha Rao) writes:
>BATIING ORDER: But, the point is Amre will be better utilized if
>he plays at #3. In an ODI eleven, Amre is an utter waste unless he comes
>in with a lot of overs to go (which doesn't happen too often - and, if
>it happens, anyway India will lose!). OTOH, Azza and Scahin don't need
>too much time to settle down and they can slog as well as play clean
>strokes. Amre, BTW, made 1 in this match coming in at a situation where
>the run rate was to be increased a lot. He got out trying a big shot.

Good point, but unfortunately I don;t think the selectors will see
this.  They will reason as such "aha, Shastri does well at #6 or #7 in
ODIs" (which we have been saying for a long time); "Amre is a #6 bat"
(!), so we will take back Manjrekar, and play him at one down.  That
will probably work out well.

Actually, I think we are really missing Kambli for the ODIs, as he
would have provided an excellent bat at #5 or so.

>If it hadn't been for Shastri's 27 off 16, India would've lost the
>match! Despite Raman's brilliant 113! Even in Aus, India lost several
>matches (even after Srikkanth, Shastri, Azhar, Manjrekar or Sachin made
>good scores and laid a good foundation) in the last 5-10 overs just
>because it didn't have a #6 who could make 27 off 16! Shastri, BTW,
>proved his worth in bowling also by taking a vital wicket.

Yup -- if you use him properly, he is a wonderful ODI asset.

>IMHO, this will be the best batting orer:

>Raman, Jadeja, Amre/Manjrekar, Sachin, Azza, Shastri, Kapil, More,
>Prabhakar, Srinath, Kumble

I think this will be what happens for th next game (with Manjrekar in)
with one exception.  I think you will see Raju playing.  If India was
up 2-1 instead of down 1-2, I would have advocated giving Bannerjee
and/or Yadav a chance, but not now....

Also, is it just me, or is More proving more and more of a liability
behind the wickets.  Any idea on Yadav's prowess with the gloves (for
the future)?  India must get a sure handed keeper for the future...

>As I said after the first ODI, toss will matter a lot. Both the sides
>are beter at chasing. RSA has an extremely impressive winning record
>while chasing in their limited ODI record.

India does not seem to be able to keep up the momentum when batting
first.  The batting seems somewhat clueless, without a real plan.

>PVR

Bharat
--
R. Bharat Rao                         E-mail: bharat@cs.uiuc.edu
AI Group, Beckman Institute for Advanced Science and Technology
405 N. Mathews, Urbana, IL 61801   (217)-333-5978 (O), 337-6498(H)
Electrical & Computer Engineering, University of Illinois, Urbana
Newsgroups: rec.sport.cricket
From: nas_ps@geds01.jsc.nasa.gov (Pradip R. Shah)
Subject: India's record away from home
Reply-To: nas_ps@geds01.jsc.nasa.gov
Organization: G.E. Government Services
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 17:11:43 GMT

The latest India Today magazine reveals a rather dismal stat for the performance
of the Indian team.  India, to my surprise, has not won a single test match away
from home since 1986 or 1987 and so far, India has won only 12 test matches away
from home in her entire test history.  Tiger Patuadi says that Indians are too
gentlemen, too good on the field - Indian psyche.  I think this is very true.
We have world class batsmen in Tendu, Manj, Azza and probably, world class
bowlers too.  Despite of their present disappointing performance, I am very
optimistic of India's future.  The team spirit, killing instict, confidence,
concentration etc. have to be instilled further, and I am sure, the players, coaches,
and selectors are aware of this.  

Merry X-mas to all the members.

Pradip Shah  GE
From: skumar@acsu.buffalo.edu (Shivesh Kumar)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.cricket
Subject: test
Date: 12 Dec 92 03:10:11 GMT
Organization: UB
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]


shastri hai hai..
Newsgroups: rec.sport.cricket
From: shamim@bellcore.com (Shamim Naqvi)
Subject: Re: Problems with RR and SM
Organization: Bell Communications Research, Morristown, NJ
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 92 23:39:30 GMT

In article <Dec20.222427.23649@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU>, ss733645@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Sohban Shahid) writes:
> 
> Well, Salim Malik is another case.  He has all the talent of
> a good batsmen and has proved his worth.  He is in the
> Pakistan team for quite a number of years but I hardly remember
> an inning from him that has been played in crisis and saved
> Pakistan.  

I did not declare an open season on SMalik. There is no doubt that he
stays in my test team and in my OD team. It is just that he does not
like the number 3 sopt. This forced Imran to play himself in the WC
and this is causing some problems now. I believe we will see a change
in the batting order. Perhaps the one I suggested, perhaps Inzi at no.
3. Let's see. 

> Has a tendency of 
> playing bowls outside the off stumps 

And who doesn't? Seriously, folks, this phrase "tendency to play
outside the off stump" used to be the stock phrase of journalists who
wanted to slam a batsman. When you can not find anything wrong, 
take out the good old standby. I vote that this be stricken from the
collective vocabulary of RSC. 

> The only thing which he has to show is that he has the capacity
> of holding one end safely 

Well, you claim you saw his innings in England so what about 80+ not
out in both innings at Leeds? I think what you want to say is that,
like Azhar, Malik is not very consistent and this is frustrating. He
did have the best average in the county season. I suspect that the
3-test WI tour will be quite revealing.

	--SAN
From: carniesl@mundoe.maths.mu.oz.au
Subject: Re: Junior Murray
Organization: Maths Dept. , Uni. of Melbourne
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 21:13:11 GMT

In article <1992Dec7.162430.10651@vax.oxford.ac.uk> mcbean@vax.oxford.ac.uk
writes:
>I gather Junior Murray has kept for the first two ODI.  Can somebody from Aus.
>tell me what they thought of his glove work.
>

I'm not an expert on wicket-keeping but my impression has been 
that all the keepers seen here this summer 
healy(aus),rashid latif(pak)
- what did mohin khan do wrong to get dropped anyway?
williams and murray (wi)
have been pretty ordinary. There have been qute a few dropped 
catches (e.g. rashid last weekend - it wasn't that hard )
and a lot of slips catches being taken 'inside'(on the keeper's side ) i.e. a 
keeper like dujon would have snaffled them before they ever 
got to slips.

In murray's case this has been put down to nerves,but he didn't do his cause
any good at all last night . WI had to make 11 runs off 
the last 12 balls , murray was 5 n.o.and sensibly taking 1's and 2's
when he suddenly tries to be the hero  and belt the ball out of the (big!)
park. WI subsequently lost the match on the last ball
a strange and ironic rerun of their equally unlikely victory 
over pakistan in adelaide.


Newsgroups: rec.sport.cricket
From: mamohamm@vela.acs.oakland.edu (SKEPTICAL)
Subject: About Eating Crow
Organization: Oakland University, Rochester MI.
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 00:59:49 GMT

>>or all out for 81 ?
>>or 10 overs 8 maidens 3 runs 4 wickets ?
>>Can you spell Phil Simmons ?
>>Does 5 games 1 win 3 losses and 1 draw mean anything to you ?

>>Eat crow and die !
 Look like you know quite a lot about Eating crows and not dieing -:)

>>8-)
  -:) -:) -:)

>>An Australia.
  You mean an Australian   -:) -:) -:)
           	       ^


>>Paul McLeish, Burdett Buckeridge & Young Ltd, Melbourne, Australia
	
  Every dog has his day    -:) -:) -:)

SKEPTICAL
-- 
____________________________________________________________________
Men Want To Be Girl's First Love,
			         Women Want To Be Men's Last Romance
					    <somebody else's saying>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.cricket
From: haque@.mcc.com (Kashif Haque)
Subject: In Miandad's Defense
Originator: haque@sundown.mcc.com
Organization: MCC, Austin, Texas
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 17:48:49 GMT

After reading one of the comments posted on rsc about Miandad's unsportsmen like
conduct, i felt compelled to write some words in Miandad's defense.  There is no 
doubt that he is the greatest fighter Pakistan cricket has ever seen.  One can
understand the frustration of any fighter who wants to win and knows that his 
team is fully capable of winning when his team performs such a poor display of
cricket.  In the previous occasions he had led by example.  Unfortunately he has
been in a slump (according to his great standards).  May be it is to due to age or 
may be it is the added pressure of being a captain.  What makes Miandad so
erratic at some times has to do with personality.  Some people do like to speak
out and some don't.  Perhaps the only problem with Miandad is that he speaks out 
about a controversy in a controversial manner or perhaps his reputation follows
him because even the simple statements like blaming hectic itenary as one of the
factors of their dismal performance is branded as unsportsmen like comment. The 
same thing happended with Australia after they won the world cup.  They also 
complained about too much cricket.  Unfortunately these are the times when
every country wants to play the world cup champions and are willing to give
the gate money in advance.  This gives cricket control board an opportunity to
cash in and lose out.  

One thing i would say, Miandad is a great fighter but he is not a great leader. 
Perhaps Imran was right, the captain of the team should be a person who is best 
suitable for it.  He saw in Wasim that which he didn't see in Miandad, both fighter 
and leadership qualities.

Pakistan team, with the exception of two or three big names is pretty young and 
lacks the temperament needed for such level of cricket. I remember a comment 
made by Richard Hadlee during a world cup match betweenPakistan and New Zealand, 
he said "what makes Pakistan team so fascinating towatch is that you don't know 
what to expect from them.  Sometimes they are yelling at each other in the field 
and at other they times smile, hug and embrace each other".  A glance at 
Pakistan's performance during the last seasonindicates that they struggled 
throughout with their weaknesses without reallyovercoming them at any stage of 
the season.  Their successes in the World Cup and Sharjah Cup before that clearly 
demonstrates the fighting ability and the determination to overcome hopeless 
situations that this team had developed under the charismatic leadership of Imran. 
Pakistan team is a bunch of rugged fighters, What's missing is a catalyst that
brings out the best in all of them. 


Happy Holidays
KJH - a die hard cricket fan





P.S.  I am not proposing that Imran should come back to the Pakistan cricket
Newsgroups: rec.sport.cricket
From: jawad@ecst.csuchico.edu (Jawad Ali)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.cricket
Subject: Re: Problems with RR and SM
Date: 21 Dec 92 02:19:05 GMT
Organization: California State University, Chico
NNTP-Posting-Host: cscihp.ecst.csuchico.edu

In article <Dec20.222427.23649@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> ss733645@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu writes:
>.  Hope everyone will see exciting cricket 
>from them in future.  I have not seen Saeed's batting so I cannot
>make comment on Shamims line-up, but it seems a little poky with
>Miandad at number 3.

I have never seen him either.  

But it is time to crunch some numbers at the Pakistan Affairs Desk.

	Anwar did have a pair of ducks, which beats
	a duck and an ace only in Reno, and that too
	on special days.  I dont remember who said 
	what but smart money in Reno would be on Shamim
	to be correct.

	These were the opening partnerships in that series:

	04	WI
	02	PK
	47	WI
	15	PK

	01	PK
	26	WI
	00	PK
	00	WI

	13	WI
	02	PK
	01	WI
	00	PK

	I cannot figure out the average for the tour because all that
	addition by zero might overload the system.  But simple math
	shows that if you multiply in the jinx factor, Anwar's ave
	turns out to be slightly above zero.  But these are only numbers.


Poky??

j n a
Newsgroups: rec.sport.cricket
From: vaghela@laxatv.reo.dec.com (Umesh Vaghela)
Subject: India , Pakistan , Sri Lanka
Keywords: If there are no bugs then something is wrong with the program...
Reply-To: vaghela@laxatv.reo.dec.com (Umesh Vaghela)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 11:13:14 GMT


The reasons for the poor performance in the recent ODIs in SA and Australia
is that the loosing teams (India and Pakistan) have been 1) over confident, ie.
India thinking SA are new boys in International cricket, and Pakistan being
Worlds Champions, 2) Panicking - when the top order tumbles, the tail
follows the trend. 3) Lack of enthusiasm and application - Top order scoring
less runs and taking lot of time.

Lets not take away the credit from the winners who performed so well.
On the day would you say that Phill simmons bowled exceptionally well breaking
the world record of Bishensingh Sardar Bedi which stood at 12-8-6-1, or
Pakistan didnot concentrate and panicked when they lost few wickets?

Lot of people argue that the overseas pitches are different from the one
at home, but a great team performs well under any conditions.

Look at Sri Lanka, no test playing country wants to give Sri Lanka a five
test series. But their current performance against NZ is brilliant.
One might say that NZ does not have their regular players in the team ( ie
those who chickened out, my opinion only), but all the players in the NZ
team are professional first class players like SL team.

Plus there are so many top order batsmen in Indian team who have taken their
place in the team for granted. The thave to prove themselves to be worthy
of their place. India should remove or lower the places of the top order
batsmen who does not show consistency.

Sorry for bragging for so long. Please accept my apology.

--
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|                            Umesh Vaghela                                |
|                Digital Equipment Corporation - Reading, Berks, UK       |
|                                                                         |
| 	Userid : vaghela@marvin.enet.dec.com				  |
|          	 vaghela@laxatv.reo.dec.com                               |
|          	 vaghela@wikkit.enet.dec.com                              |
|									  |
|All views & opinions expressed here are entirely my own and NOT digital's|
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.sport.cricket
From: rohanc@leland.Stanford.EDU (Rohan Koduvayur Kri Chandran)
Subject: Re: Azhar's failure - High time....
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 03:35:25 GMT

In article <1gjc7tINN8kl@gaia.ucs.orst.edu> guptar@ucs.orst.edu (Rakesh Gupta) writes:
>
>aZHAR HAS NOT BEEN ABLE TO MOTIVATE THE TEAM. HE HAS ALSO FAILED AS BATSMAN. I
>THINK IT IS TIME FOR HIM TO THINK FOR RETIREMENT.
>
>
>rakesh gupta

Are you out of your mind?????? RETIREMENT???? Granted he is not a great captain
, he's too much of a gentleman. Kapil would be the best choice as captain, IMO.
And I agree he is not in form as a batsman (although he did top-score in the
latest ODI). But irrespective of all that, he is still the most talented,
naturally gifted, and IMHO the best batsman around today, and there is NO WAY
he should retire or be dropped from the Indian team. Every batsman goes through
a bad patch every now and again - I don't see anyone calling for Tendulkars
retirement given his bad showing in the ODI's. 

Rohan


-- 

***** MAN U RULE !!! ************************************ KAPIL DEV - 408 *****
*******************************************************************************
Rohan Chandran		rohanc@leland.stanford.edu           1 - 415 - 497 6661
From: 5912ramasubr@vms.csd.mu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.cricket
Subject: Re: Comments: Ind vs RSA: ODI-3
Date: 13 Dec 1992 00:26:10 GMT
Organization: Marquette University - Computer Services
Reply-To: 5912ramasubr@vms.csd.mu.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: vmsd.csd.mu.edu

In article <Bz6445.2L2@rice.edu>, pvr@argo.rice.edu (PVR Narasimha Rao) writes:
>
>You think you will see Raju playing!!?? In whose place?? Definitely not
>Kumble's. He's doing better than Raju did in Aus. If you were pissed off
>with Kumble's 38 runs off 10 overs in the first ODI, you must realize
>that it was still not much worse than Raju's average performance in Aus
>(40 runs off 10 overs)! Kumble was economical in the second ODI. I don't
>know his stats in the 3rd, but he got the vital wicket of Wessels. BTW,
>Raju's stats against RSA in WC were 6-0-43-0. And, that was the only
>time he played againsdt them.
>

I totally agree with your point about Kumble being
a better oneday bowler than Raju was in Aus. But in
all fairness to Raju when we talk about the match against
RSA in WC we should remember that it was not a regular 
match and a 30 over slogfest.

Not a flame , just a point.
Bye,<
Newsgroups: rec.sport.cricket