HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Ciaran McHale)
Subject: Re: looking for ideas
Organization: DSG, Dept. of Computer Science, Trinity College Dublin
Distribution: world,local
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 11:27:07 GMT

In <1685EAEA2.LEVINO@arizvm1.ccit.arizona.edu>
LEVINO@arizvm1.ccit.arizona.edu writes:
>The peoples from the local BGALA group are looking for
>ideas for the next coming out day. The ideas need to stress
>the "B" word from the name of the group.

From the "Bi Activists Resource List" which is posted monthly by Alan
Hamilton:

	"50 Steps To Bisexual Visibility" pamphlet, "Safer Sex"
	pamphlet, "Bisexuality" pamphlet, all developed by BiCEP and
	published by ECBN, 617-247-6683, POB 639, Cambridge,
	Massachusetts 02140, USA.  These pamphlets are also available
	on 3.5" IBM-compatible floppy disk.  Call ECBN to order, or to
	volunteer to record them on audio cassette.

An idea of mine, which I've never gotten round to implementing is to
paint a graduted scale from, say, blue to pink. Then have a bit of text
at each end of the scale (indicating blue=heterosexual & pink=homosexual)
Underneath, write "Where do you draw the line?" Crude ASCII
approximation follows:

----cut here----

	Heterosexual				     Homosexual
	+-----------------------------------------------------+
	|                                                     |
        |pure blue             blue/pink             pure pink|
        |at this end              mix              at this end|
	|                                                     |
	+-----------------------------------------------------+

			Where do you draw the line?

----cut here----


Ciaran.
-- 
Ciaran McHale                                                             ----
Department of Computer Science, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland.       \bi/
Telephone: +353-1-7021539 FAX: +353-1-772204 email: cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie \/
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: bhat@ecr.mu.oz.au (Timothy_Alan_Heath BELL)
Subject: Re: Being Bi in Melbourne
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 03:51:52 GMT

In article <9225410.5891@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU>, nsn@ee.mu.OZ.AU (Nick Nicholas) writes:
> 
> Now, if we form a MelbUniBiBimbos club, we could claim the $100 as a club
> function.
> 
> And what a *function*! And what a club! :)
> 

Well, a MelbUniBiClub wouldn't be such a bad idea. Funding, reasonably safe
environment to meet in, fills a DIRE need at this university, and non-Melb-
Uni members _are_ permitted to be members of MelbUni clubs, up to a certain
limit.
What about it?

> I might just comandeer Timbo's handy electronic diary thingy for the
> purpose. It's such a *cute* thingy! Everyone should have one (as long as
> their name is Tim and they sing alto in a church choir).
					    ^^^^^^ Not just a church, a whole
wopping CATHEDRAL, thank-you Nick.

> woodhous@latcs2.lat.oz.au (Joe P Woodhouse) writes:
> >   Maybe here is a good time to mention it - I've been in contact with
> >another Bi person on the net locally, and they're making noises about setting
> >up a Melbourne Bi group. It's something I've been thinking about for a
> >while, could be an idea.
> 
> We shall think further on't...
> 

Yep. It takes time and effort, but. But anyone else in the Melbourne area
got something to say about the idea?

Tim Bell.
bhat@getting.to.be.too.many.accounts.to.keep.track.of.them.all
MelbUni.

Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: panda@Micor.OCUnix.on.ca (Elizabeth Holden)
Subject: Re: Guardian Norwich article
Organization: M.B. Cormier INC.
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 22:59:26 EDT

idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid) writes:

> UK BiCon (Nottingham, next year) so that she could see for herself what
> nice people we are?
> 


Can I come too?

Namaste,
Elizabeth

Newsgroups: soc.bi,alt.sex
From: lje@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (lisa.j.elser)
Subject: Re: This thread is disturbing to me (Re: whatever )
Organization: AT&T
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 18:33:02 GMT

>>h431@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic) writes:
>>
>I'm saying no woman or man has the right to make another person
>wrong about their native desires.

stuff deleted

>
>>What would you say to a sexually threatening person?  You have to be
>>ferocious or you could end up raped.
>
>I know what I read and hear versus what I experience locally "on the
>ground". Locally, I don't know any men who threaten women sexually,
>so I'm operating in that context with the above.
>
>>

Where is this locale?  I'd be interested to visit.  It sure isn't any
place on earth I've ever been.  

I'm a fairly femme looking lesbian with a brown belt in karate.  I'm
small, thin, rather pretty, and extremely "out" about my lesbianism.
When the man at work commented to a co-worker of mine that he felt he
could "change" me and then went out of his way to hang around,
that was threatening.  When my neighbor kept coming over to ask
me out, that was threatening.

The fact that I could whip the piss out of them doesn't change the
threat--it only makes it less effective :-)  If they find me attractive,
that's their business but to insist on forcing their desires
on me when they know perfectly well that I am unreceptive is wrong.
In some ways, I find these people more threatening than overt
harassment by strangers.  I know how to respond to that--I can walk
away, or I can decide that I am in physical danger and defend
myself.  Harassment by people I deal with daily is much trickier.
and sometimes the only thing to do is what worked with my neighbor:
tell him you think he's an asshole and that he's no longer welcome
on your property.  Then follow through by calling the police.

Your "native desires" are not my problem.  

Lisa Elser
UNIX System Labs
Summit, NJ
lje@usl.com
Newsgroups: soc.bi,alt.polyamory
From: pclary@mushroom.csc.calpoly.edu (Ellen Clary)
Subject: Re: Our heroes!  
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 16:15:58 GMT
Organization: Cal Poly, San Luis Obispo, CA - aka Barnum & Bailey

Thanks Elf for taking the time to transcribe this.  I am impressed.
Charles and Janice were gracious enough to have a viewing party
at their house.  I certainly had a wonderful time.  Charles and
Janice deserve many accolades for facing Geraldo.

I told Charles that it seemed like he got more comfortable as
the show progressed.  He said "No, I got angry."  Well it certainly
worked.

Charles and Janice were telling us about some of the lines that
were cut.  The best one is in []'s below...(The []'s without
the > at the beginning.)
(It totally changes the context.)


elf@halcyon.com (Elf Sternberg) wrote...
>Geraldo:  Okay, now I understand what you're saying.  But, bisexuality.
>Are you, Janice, a bisexual?
>
>Janice:  I consider myself one, yes.
>
>Geraldo:  So you have sexual relations with both men and women?
>
>Janice:  I don't think who you have sex with actually matters as to
>whether or not your bisexual.
>
>     [ More cheering from the front two rows ]
>
>Geraldo:  Again, there's the button-wearers in the front two rows.  It
>may or may not, but I'd like you to answer the question.  Do you have
>sex with both men and women?
>
>Janice:  I have in the past.
>
>Geraldo:  But do you.. currently.
>
>Charles:  Do you want her phone number?
           [(short pause)... Do you want mine?]
>
>     [ Sudden outbreak of laughter an 'Ohhhhhs' from the audience ]
>
>Geraldo:  Viola, you gonna let him say that to me?  You gonna let him
>say that?  I'm having a rough time today, man, I just got here, I'm
>trying to do my job.  Getting beat up by my guests.  Charles and
>Janice... you are, in essence, neither of you is monogamous.  True?
>
>Charles:  Right.


Someone at the party suggested that this show had supplied Geraldo
with enough fantasy material to last him quite awhile.

Ellen
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: orc@usite-next.uchicago.edu (David Parsons)
Subject: Re: Lovely things found in my mailbox
Followup-To: alt.flame
Organization: Ministry of Skritching
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 13:16:11 GMT

In article <1992Sep09.004118.28611@microsoft.com> fritzs@microsoft.com (Fritz Sands) writes:
|In article <1992Aug30.184314.25188@midway.uchicago.edu> h431@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
|| If I could design a utopia, there'd be two political parties, the
|| libertarians and the socialists.  They'd agree on human rights issues
|| and duke it out over economic ones.  
|
|What, in the history of socialist thought, makes you think that, as 
|a general rule, socialists are particularly in favor of human rights?

   If we (the socialists) weren't in favour of human rights, we wouldn't
have spent all the time and effort trying to work it out.  There are other
newsgroups for you to slander socialists in; it might be better if you
took this conversation there.
                __
  david parsons \/ orc@pell.chi.il.us
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: wgt@fog.cs.odu.edu (Warren T.)
Subject: Books to read
Organization: Old Dominion University, Norfolk, VA, USA
Distribution: soc
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 14:42:53 GMT


Well... hello all....

This is my honest to goodness first post.. Hello Becky!!!  :-)

I just picked up some books to read that should be very interesting...

I just recently came out to my closer friends and parents and am
having extreme problems with my mother.. I read something in the
Washington Blade last weekend that fit really well.. When a child
comes out of the closet, most parents go in.  Well... I picked up a
book called something along the lines of "Parents and Homosexuality"
(they didn't have one called "Parents and Bisexuality"  :-)

It discusses homosexuality with parents by working through the
discussions of such in the Christian religions -- which is where some
of my mother's main problems are coming from, I believe.  She just
recently slipped into the Baptist mode, and is trying to be her best
Baptist self....

I also borrowed "Bi Any Other Name" from Becky... Hope to read that
one really soon.  

And I picked up the book "Co-Dependent No More"  -- I just read an
article here that mentioned codepency (which is why I decided to
post.)  It's about learning how to take care of yourself, and not
concern yourself with taking care of other people so much more than
yourself.  That one I hope to get to really soon, as well...

Well... just thought I'd say hello to everybody.... "HI!!!!!" and let
people know that I exist.  

----
\Bi/   <-- I like that one... :-)  (blatantly stolen, of course...)
 \/				   (If I stole it from you, you know
				    who you are...)  :-)

Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: eleanor@cbnews.cb.att.com (eleanor.j.evans)
Subject: Re: Appreciate Chocolate Now and Avoid the Rush!
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 17:56:31 GMT

In article <1992Sep4.003800.49618@ccvax.ucd.ie> pflynn@ccvax.ucd.ie (Peter Flynn, Official Muffin-sampler) writes:
>Ah, I misread. OK, Cadbury's on its way.
>
>BTW, who likes their chocolate warm and soft (kept in the pocket)
>and who likes it hard and cold (kept in the fridge)?

Oh, warm and soft, definitely!  And as dark as it comes......

El
From: mlloyd@castle.ed.ac.uk (M Lloyd)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Silly point (was Re: Clive Barker's book "Imajica")
Date: 15 Sep 92 21:17:31 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

In article <1992Sep15.101714.511@dsg.cs.tcd.ie> cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Ciaran McHale) writes:
>Actually, I loved the connection between the
>the characters of the book and the Christian god: quite original and
>probably verging on blasphfemy.
                     ^^^^^^^^^^
Is that like accusing God of not being butch?  Actually, come to think of
it, I'm sure She models herself on Iseult, the femme top ...

As for verging on blasphemy, drop the "verge" part.  It's just a 
question of who you ask.  I had religious friends who felt that
Ghostbusters was the blasphemous work of the Devil.  I would freak them
out by proudly displaying my ticket from a London showing of
Last Temptation of Christ ... (ahh, fond memories of heresy :-)

hugs
Mike, feeling flippant
-- 
Mike Lloyd                         | B0/1 h- f- t w- c g+ k(+) s m- e? 
Retro-hippy, music nut, bi and     | "The Trouble with Normal is it
owner of a one-track mind:         |  Always Gets Worse" - Bruce Cockburn
   "thesis .. thesis .. thesis"    |    (-:   F**k Your Gender!  :-)
From: cen@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Language is a virus (was: Various)
Date: 14 Sep 92 20:55:20 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620


 sara@castle.ed.ac.uk (Swamp Thing) writes:

> Ah, now you're talking my language.  Are you doing anything tonight?
> 
> <flutter flutter> <coy look>

hehe. Yes. Underlining bits of _Biathanatos_ and finishing off Ian Macdonald's
_Hearts, Hands and Voices_ (a better _The Unconquered Country_)... but,
<flutter flutter> <coy look> ... I am going to be in your locale at the
weekend.

Tanaqui

> sara@geovax.ed.ac.uk   ** nice **   

Like it. I'm "interesting", me.
From: Drakon@cup.portal.com (HARRY BENJAMIN GIBSON)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: A nagging question
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 14:18:34 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world

First off John <*HUGS*>

At the risk of having my Pop psychology license revoked, I might have an 
explaination. Alot of people try and sabotage themselves when they feel they
don't deserve good things to happen. I am not sure if this is just Christain 
Guilt or what. I see me doing this too. You have to decide that you are a good
person. (Haven't gone on a 3 state killing spree lately have you?:)

As far as being Gay or Bi-, this is a question that really gets to me. The
definition is simple: If you like sex with both, You're Bi- It is that simple
and that pointless. As a wise man once said "Labels are for soup cans"
You are a human being with an unlimited potential to love and express that
love. Why get bogged down in meaningless labels.

I don't know how to help you not sabotage yourself. When I figure out how to
keep me from doing it to myself, I'll let you know.:) But if you love this
girl, go for it. Don't let anything stop you. Even you:)


As for advice in a realtionship, all I can tell you is to talk to each other.
Constantly. 

Ben Gibson
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: panda@Micor.OCUnix.on.ca (Elizabeth Holden)
Subject: Re: Disturbed
Organization: M.B. Cormier INC.
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 92 17:37:20 EDT

sr09@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (SIMON NICHOLAS RUSSELL) writes:

> complicated, and often interesting, ways.  Sigh.  Just wait till I get to be 
> proper professor and get to teach courses in this stuff.
> 
> Uncommon devoirs,
> 
> Simon.
> 

Don't I wish!  This is why I fantasize about getting a PhD.  Fascinating 
stuff indeed.  

There are pockets of times and places where homosexuality and bisexuality 
were popular and fashionable.  They tend to be skipped over in school 
texts books, though - you have to look at the sources for them.

Which reminds me of the Latin text where the Catullus like "iocumdum os 
oculosque suaviabor" - "I will kiss your happy mouth and eyes", addressed 
to his friend/lover Veranius, is footnoted by the Ontario Board of 
Education with the note that men in Roman times tended to be more 
demonstrative than men in Canada today.

Right.

Namaste,
Elizabeth
From: x91miley@gw.wmich.edu
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Lovely things found in my mailbox
Date: 7 Sep 92 01:06:13 EST
Organization: Western Michigan University

In article <1992Sep5.204923.11654@plts.uucp>, tal@plts.uucp (Tom Limoncelli) writes:
> Comment #2:  Actually, if abortion wasn't an issue then the issue would
> most likely revert to passing the ERA.  A friend of mine knows Operation
> Rescue's Randell Terry and claims that he really isn't into it for the
> "save the life of a baby" aspect, but he believes that if women can get
> abortions on demand, they're more likely to be able to maintain jobs.
> To him, banning abortion is just a way to keep women out of the
> workforce.  He honestly believes that women just plain shouldn't work.
> Yes it's the ultimate sexism which we all thought didn't exist anymore
> in this country: women in the workforce.   This is the real issue behind
> the anti-abortion movement.  Keep women pregnant and they can't be
> political, be powerful, create change, etc.
> 
> It keeps me awake at night.
> 
> Tom

It would be nice if women (womyn, wimmin, etc...) could actually choose to have
the baby AND remain in the workforce without extreme difficulty.  That would be
wonderful, but the Repugnicans don't even make that possible by opposing the
passage of any legislation that prevents discrimination based on current
pregnancy status, day care, maternity leave, etc.  And they call themselves
pro-family.  Sheesh!

-- 
Tim Miley, Western Michigan University computer science student.
                    x91miley@gw.wmich.edu

"Speculating upon their...constant fear of pain and disease,...[the medical
industry] has created the illusion that she wields mysterious and unlimited
powers...  So the peoples of the western hemisphere have prostrated
themselves..., imagining her as an almighty goddess...to whom common mortals may
not even raise their eyes, lest they be blinded.  But if they dared do so, they
would discover that their empress hasn't got a stitch on and is gruesome to
behold." Hans Ruesch, Slaughter of the Innocent, Civitas Publishing.
From: bethan@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Bethan Davies)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: whatever . . .
Date: 15 Sep 92 16:11:13 GMT
Followup-To: soc.bi
Distribution: soc.bi
Organization: Centre for Cognitive Science, Edinburgh, UK

In article <xxgqb2hs@cck.coventry.ac.uk> idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid) writes:
>
>		Kay (whose birthday is on Wednesday)

And who isn't currying birthday wishes, no, not at all!

May it be a furry, cuddlesome sort of birthday....

<HUG>                
               <HUG>

                             Bethan
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: whatever . . .
From: moselecw@elec.canterbury.ac.nz (C.W. Moseley)
Date: 8 Sep 92 15:05:06 +1200
Distribution: world
Organization: Electrical Engineering, University of Canterbury, New Zealand

In article <1992Sep7.184451.3297@dsg.cs.tcd.ie>, cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Ciaran McHale) writes:
> In <1992Sep7.124907.16190@tfs.com> ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic) writes:
> >None of us are ultimately stupid [...]
> 
> Perhaps not, but you have managed to come across as clueless, sexist,
> arrogant and egotistical all at the same time. No doubt, stupidity will
> ultimately follow.

(ciaran, this sounds like one of those sentences that is a good example of
what it is talking about - ie `so have you')

oops, did you omit `patronising', silly mistake.

MOZ
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: kludge@grissom.larc.nasa.gov (Scott Dorsey)
Subject: Re: Brief Aside (Was: whatever . . .)
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center and Reptile Farm
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 14:53:11 GMT

In article <1992Sep11.101153.9204@dsg.cs.tcd.ie> cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Ciaran McHale) writes:
>In <BuDJB8.Js7@news.larc.nasa.gov> kludge@grissom.larc.nasa.gov
>(Scott Dorsey) writes:
>>>[...]
>>Whoa, whoa!  Stop right there, while we are on the subject of offensive
>>generalizations.
>
>Yes, folks. It is true. Scott Dorsey and I are the one and the same
>person. Shit! I knew I shold have remembered to post that article under
>the "Ciaran" username, but I slipped up bad.

Hmm, if we're the same person, then you won't mind my <murfle> <snuffle>
<snuggle-snuggle> here.
--scott
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Ciaran McHale)
Subject: Re: whatever . . .
Organization: DSG, Dept. of Computer Science, Trinity College Dublin
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 11:00:32 GMT

I've slept on Eric's explanation of his original posting and there is
something about it which jars with me a bit.

Ellen Clary writes:
>>>>It's been my experience that when there's one man with a group of women,
>>>> the man gets ignored entirely.

Eric C. S. Dynamic:
>>>It must be he's boring, or they're ignoring circumstances.
>>>Sorry. Were I there [and was a woman], I would [go for the man]
                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
		       Note that I've added in Eric's clarifications

Saying "If I were a bi woman in a mixed group-sex situation then I
would go for the man" is simply stating a personal preference, and is
in no way offensive.

Well, it wouldn't be, if it wasn't for the line which preceeds it in
Eric's posting. My interpretation of that previous line is "Unless the
man is boring, the women are ignoring a golden opportunity."

So let's join these two lines together and see what we get:

	Unless the man is boring, the women are ignoring a golden
	opportunity. Were *I* a bi women there, I would go for the man.

NOTE: I'm not sure if this is what Eric meant. If it isn't then I hope
he will clarify it. *If* my interpretation of it _is_ valid...

...then it is falling for the classic stereotype that a bi woman would
dump a female partner as soon as a man comes along, i.e., bi women are
really straight and just fool around with other women out of sexual
frustration when there are no men about to "really satisfy" them.

It might also be supporting the claim that it is the duty of (bi) women
to service the (sexual) needs of men. (This can be more clearly seen if
we re-paraphrase "golden opportunity" as "duty.")


Is this reading of your posting accurate, Eric? Or have I misinterpreted
you yet again?


In reply to "The Swamp Thing" (Sara), you say:

>Here's an ardent flame for you: looks like your "resources" might equate to
>your pussy, and you have put a price on it: Behave thus, or none of This.

Am I correct in thinking that you are "accusing" Sara of being a
prositute? (i) I fail to understand how you came to the conclusion that
she has put a price on having sex with her. (ii) Perhaps you could
explain to me why you think the term "prostitute" is insulting.


Ciaran.
-- 
Ciaran McHale                                                             ----
Department of Computer Science, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland.       \bi/
Telephone: +353-1-7021539 FAX: +353-1-772204 email: cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie \/
From: osmith@acorn.co.uk (Owen Smith)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Disturbed
Date: 7 Sep 92 18:45:53 GMT
Organization: Acorn Computers Ltd, Cambridge, England

In article <1992Sep6.224802.21113@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> tweaver@nyx.cs.du.edu
(T.C.Weaver) writes:

>Tanaqui, Member of the Mile High Club, too |-)

Why are we not surprised? :-) Jealous yes, surprised definitely not.

Owen.

I must learn to do some work and THEN read soc.bi. Reading soc.bi early in
the day (OK so this is my second session today) leaves my thoughts in such a
turmoil that I can't get any work done. Sigh. Especially after what Clive,
Bethan and especially Kay have been writing.

Owen.