HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: goddard+@cs.cmu.edu (Nigel Goddard)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Whole-House Fan Choice is Not a Breeze
Date: 4 Sep 92 23:02:44 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.Bu2tCK.DyC.2
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

In article <25860029@hpcvra.cv.hp.com> tedb@hpcvra.cv.hp.com (Ted Beers) writes:
>
>  I'm planing to install a whole-house fan in my house under
>  constructions as an alternative to air conditioning (and short-term,
>  as a way to exhaust the toxic new-house material fumes).  The advice
>  available locally is frighteningly scarce, so I was hoping the net
>  might offer some input.

I found it hard to locate information sources.  Here's what I found:

To minimize noise, you want:
	1. Belt drive.  Direct drive means the fan blades act as
           as a sound board for motor vibration.
	2. Slow fan rpm (another reason to get belt drive).

The function of the fan in terms of cooling are:
	1. To replace hot internal air with cool external air.
	2. To provide a breeze which is cooling in itself (skin chill).

Your CFM requirements depend on how fast you want to do 1 and how
much of the house you want 2 to be operative in.  I think the default
assumption for 2 is you want to provide the breeze in all rooms at
once.  In this cas, to calculate the CFM you need, compute the *volume*
to be vented.  Then take two-thirds of this number if you live in the
north or this number if you live in the south, and that's your CFM.
(I suspect this has something to do with humidity, since it takes more
power to move moist air).  This will allow you to vent the house once
a minute or once every minute and a half.  If you choose a smaller
fan, you get slower air replacement and less breeze cooling.

You need to worry about where the fan vents the air to.  If you
vent directly outside, no problem.  Most installations vent into the
attic.  In this case you need one square foot of roof ventilation
for every 750 CFMs of the fan (this is a lot of ventilation).  Insect
screening can reduce the effective vent area of a vent to 50% of the
nominal area.  If you don't provide enough roof ventilation, you won't
get the CFMs the fan is capable of (and I suspect you will get more
noise from the fan).

I was told Dayton is a good brand.  I looked through the Grainger Supply
catalogue, it is a gold mine for these things.  It includes some
advice on sizing the fan and external venting.  You can request it
from their 800 number which can be had from 1-800-555-1212.  I picked
a Dayton 30 inch which moves 6600 CFM on high speed and 2200 CFM on
low speed.  The low speed is around 300 RPM which I hope will be
quiet enough to leave on at night.

I haven't heard of the brands you mention and would like to know
where to get information on them.  Also, I would like to know why
you believe direct drive is best, since my information is to the
contrary.

If you are in California or somewhere dry, have you considered a
swamp cooler (I think you'll find these in Grainger too, under
evaporative cooling)?  They add humidity and cool the air at the
same time.

Nigel Goddard
-- 
Nigel Goddard
goddard@b.gp.cs.cmu.edu
From: egreen@east.sun.com (Ed Green - Pixel Cruncher)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Realty-English Dictionary
Date: 15 Sep 1992 17:01:52 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, RTP, NC
Distribution: world
Reply-To: egreen@east.sun.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: laser.east.sun.com

Proceeds of the sale:  Your wallet.

---
Ed Green, former Ninjaite |I was drinking last night with a biker,
  Ed.Green@East.Sun.COM   |and I showed him a picture of you.  I said,
DoD #0111  (919)460-8302  |"Go on, get to know her, you'll like her!"
 (The Grateful Dead) -->  |It seemed like the least I could do...

Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: mark@nwra.com (Mark Baldwin)
Subject: Re: Asea Washer?
Organization: Northwest Research Associates, Inc.
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 16:51:21 GMT

I posted some info on Asea dishwashers and 
greg@netcom.com (Greg Bullough) wrote:

>Okay. Now we're all braced. How much do these beasties cost?

I called one local appliance dealer (Bellevue, WA) and was told $699 to
$1100. The low price is no more than the high-end domestic models.

Also, erickson@cs.nps.navy.mil (David Erickson) emailed me to say:

>I would guess that you haven't heard of Bosch dishwashers.  Ours cost
>somewhere in the mid 700's, and is so quiet that you have to come
>within
>about 10 feet of it to know if it is running or not.  They have been
>importing the Bosch dishwashers (there are two models) since early
>spring.



    )_ _               -------------------------------------------    
   /  ) ) _        /       Mark Baldwin - mark@sparky.nwra.com
  /  / / / / /\_  /_/  Northwest Research Associates, Bellevue, WA
 /  / /_(_/_/  (_/ \__ -------------------------------------------
From: tdo@phoenix.irv.icl.com (Ted Do)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Best Hardware Store
Date: 10 Sep 92 23:59:07 GMT
Organization: ICL Advanced Development Group, Irvine CA

I totally agree that Home Depot is the best place to shop for home 
(or whatever) improvements. Their prices seem to be very competive.
What I like them the most is their service. Their staffs are very
knowledgeable and friendly.  

p.s. I can not say the same about Home Base's services. 
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: gottesmn@ducvax.auburn.edu (Robert W. Gottesman)
Subject: Sheetrocking Question
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Auburn University--Auburn, AL
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 18:52:00 GMT


Well, I am just about to get started on sheetrocking our bonus room.  I've
never attempted to do anything like this before.  I have a friend who has and
is going to help.  

Any pre sheetrocking tips, suggestions, etc?  What do I need to buy/have?
What is the best/cheapest ways to finish the ceiling? Etc.

Thanks, Robert
From: stringha@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com (Gary Stringham)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 16:30:36 GMT
Subject: Re: Which garage door opener to use?
Organization: Hewlett Packard - Boise, ID
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house

I had an opener installed in my house in Colorado (i.e. I can't go look
at it to get the size, etc.).  It was installed by "Overhead Doors", I
think.  It worked well the 6 years I was there.  It had some features
that I had not seen in other brands which I liked.

	- Double-touch button.  The hard-wired button had to be pressed
	  twice to get the door to go up or down.  This prevented
	  accidental door movement if bumped or by children.  It was not
	  perfect as a doorbell switch bounces sometimes when pressed
	  but it worked pretty good.

	- Turn light on.  If the hard-wired button was pressed only
	  once, then after a couple of seconds, the light would turn on
	  and stay on.  That was nice since the main garage lighting was
	  not that great.  The light would stay on until you pushed the
	  button once or until you opened or closed the door.

	- Door monitor.  The unit had terminals that you could attach
	  wires to a door monitor mounted in the house.  This door
	  monitor was a separate product that you could buy.  But I took
	  my voltmeter out there and discovered that when the door was
	  closed, there was 0 volts across the terminals.  When the door
	  was open, there was 12 volts (or was it 25?).  While the door
	  was opening or closing, it was flashing.  So I connected an
	  LED and resistor to it and wired it into my house.  This came
	  in handy because there were times when I noticed the LED was
	  on; I forgot that I had left it open.

Gary Stringham
From: plumpe@oasys.dt.navy.mil (David Plumpe)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: REALTY NET: anyone heard of this or anything similar?
Date: 6 Sep 92 19:01:42 GMT
Reply-To: plumpe@oasys.dt.navy.mil (David Plumpe)
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD

In misc.consumers.house, starfish@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (Smarter than the Average Blur) writes:
>My mom is interested in investing in realestate. A friend told her
>she might want to check out "realty net" on the computer network.
>Has anyone heard of this. Is this on the internet? How does one subsribe
>to this service if it exists?
>-Alan Waterman

Try misc.invest.real-estate
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: macrakis@osf.org (Stavros Macrakis)
Subject: Re: Painting radiators?
Organization: OSF Research Institute
Date: 8 Sep 92 11:59:38

Dan Dreiszus (dand@ssd.intel.com) wrote:

   : o Radiation is only affected by the last coat of paint on the
   :   radiator (this suggests that paint build-up is an insignificant
   :   insulator).

In article <1992Sep7.140318.5320@hemlock.cray.com> nrd@redwood22 (Neal Dalton) writes:

   This doesn't make sense.  The insulative value of the paint should make
   a difference.  Metal conducts heat better than plastic or glass, so a
   metallic paint should also conduct heat better than latex or other
   non-metallic paints.

1) Insulation value is directly proportional to thickness.  Paint
   layers are thin.

2) `Metallic' paint is not made of metal.  It consists of metal
   suspended in a binder.  I would guess (someone should have the
   figures) that metal is 25-50% of the dry volume.

	-s

   
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: lowry@watson.ibm.com (Andy Lowry)
Subject: rain gutter alternative
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1992 03:33:50 GMT
Distribution: misc
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

I was visiting my uncle recently, and I saw something that I thought
was extremely clever and might be useful to people who own houses (I
don't).  Instead of the standard rain gutters with downspouts, he had
this very light, unobtrusive thing that I'd describe as a water
disperser running all around the edges of the roof.  Apparently it was
invented by some MIT professor who realized that part of the original
motivation of rain gutters was to collect rainwater at the downspouts.
Most people these days no longer do that, and so their sole need is to
prevent extra heavy rainfall directly under the edges of their roofs.

The dispersion thing is basically a strip of plastic that's mounted
horizontally, with its inside edge attached to the edge of the roof.
The strip contains several louvres, running parallel to the roof edge,
set at increasingly oblique angles.  Water runs down the roof and gets
deflected by these louvers so that it ends up showering a fairly wide
strip around the house, rather than all cascading in a narrow strip.

It seemed ideal to me, and my uncle's extremely happy with the stuff.
He hasn't had any problems with excess erosion under the roof edges,
and the things are far easier to clean then traditional gutters (you
can blow from below, through the openings).

Has anybody else seen these or had experience with them.  I don't know
where they can be gotten, but if anybody's interested I can check with
my uncle.
--
Andy Lowry, lowry@watson.ibm.com, (914) 784-7925
IBM Research, P.O. Box 704, Yorktown Heights, NY  10598
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: davidm@meaddata.com (David Miller)
Subject: Re: House square footage- how to measure?
Organization: Mead Data Central, Dayton OH
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 14:10:20 GMT
Distribution: na

In article <1992Sep10.165237.12256@clpd.kodak.com>, staffan@ca.serum.kodak.com (Kenneth Staffan (x37507)) writes:
|> In article <13273@texsun.Central.Sun.COM> dbernard@thewho.Central.Sun.COM writes:
|> >What's the traditional way of measuring a house's living area?
|> >Is it the sum of the area of each individual room, not counting any
|> >basement?  Or is it the area calculated using the outside perimeter of
|> >the house?
|> 
|> I am interested in the answer to this, too, if anyone has more info.
|> 
|> When our house was listed by the realtor, the square footage was the
|> sum of the areas of each individual room, not counting the bathrooms,
|> hallways and basement.
|> 
|> When our house was appraised for a re-finance, the square footage was
|> calculated using the outside perimeter of above-grade space.  In our
|> case, this eliminated two below-grade bedrooms, but because above-grade
|> bathrooms, hallways, stairwells, etc., were counted, the numbers came
|> out pretty similar.
|> 
|> >Real estate agents seem to be getting away from this method of using
|> >square footage as a metric of comparing houses.  If they clearly explained
|> >their method of calculating the living area, why wouldn't they want to
|> >use it?
|> 
|> Haven't noticed this trend.  In our area, sq footage still figures
|> prominantly in ads and on spec sheets.
|> 
|> Ken
|> ---
|> staffan@serum.kodak.com

In San Diego, the standard measure was square footage, measured at the outside,
subtracting only for the garage.  This measure featured prominately in the
MLS books and was a primary measure for appraisals.

In Dayton, Ohio, square footage is not even in the MLS book as a prominate 
measure, however, it is used for appraisals.  I'm not sure how they measure it.
For my house, the realtor provided a floor plan with square footage measured
from the inside, but it did not subtract for inside walls or closets etc. - so
it is very similar to the San Diego style of measurement.

I have heard that a finished basement counts as square footage for appraisal
purposes only if it is done to code with permits.  I'm not sure how true this
is.



-- 
David James Miller                        Architecture&Systems Evolution
Mead Data Central, B6F3                   (513) 865-7441
PO Box 933                                davidm@meaddata.com
Dayton Ohio 45401                         I speak for me, not MDC
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: rsd@sei.cmu.edu (Richard S D'Ippolito)
Subject: Re: Asea Washer?
Organization: The Software Engineering Institute
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 17:19:24 GMT


In article <1992Sep9.165121.27596@nwra.com>, Mark Baldwin writes:

|> I posted some info on Asea dishwashers and Greg Bullough wrote:

|> >Okay. Now we're all braced. How much do these beasties cost?
|> 
|> I called one local appliance dealer (Bellevue, WA) and was told $699 to 
|> $1100. The low price is no more than the high-end domestic models.

First, the company name used to be ASEA (not Asea), but they bought Brown
Boveri (of Germany) years ago, so the name is combined and varies according to
the incorporation laws of a country.  It's like GE and Westinghouse merged,
because the companies made everything from semiconductors to appliances to
electrical generators and equipment to rolling mills to railroad locomotives!


|> Also, erickson@cs.nps.navy.mil (David Erickson) emailed me to say:
|> 
|> >I would guess that you haven't heard of Bosch dishwashers.  Ours cost
|> >somewhere in the mid 700's, and is so quiet that you have to come
|> >within about 10 feet of it to know if it is running or not...

Humor time -- how many of us can be in our kitchens and NOT be within 10 feet
of the dishwasher?

Rich



   "Please keep in mind that the ultimate goal [of hi-fi] is the
   reproduction of art, and that the invocation of science, while a neat
   parlour trick, is often unnecessary, flawed, and unreasonable."
   --  name mercifully withheld...                            rsd@sei.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: staffan@ca.serum.kodak.com (Kenneth Staffan (x37507))
Subject: Re: House square footage- how to measure?
Organization: Clinical Products Division, Eastman Kodak Company
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 16:52:37 GMT

In article <13273@texsun.Central.Sun.COM> dbernard@thewho.Central.Sun.COM writes:
>What's the traditional way of measuring a house's living area?
>Is it the sum of the area of each individual room, not counting any
>basement?  Or is it the area calculated using the outside perimeter of
>the house?

I am interested in the answer to this, too, if anyone has more info.

When our house was listed by the realtor, the square footage was the
sum of the areas of each individual room, not counting the bathrooms,
hallways and basement.

When our house was appraised for a re-finance, the square footage was
calculated using the outside perimeter of above-grade space.  In our
case, this eliminated two below-grade bedrooms, but because above-grade
bathrooms, hallways, stairwells, etc., were counted, the numbers came
out pretty similar.

>Real estate agents seem to be getting away from this method of using
>square footage as a metric of comparing houses.  If they clearly explained
>their method of calculating the living area, why wouldn't they want to
>use it?

Haven't noticed this trend.  In our area, sq footage still figures
prominantly in ads and on spec sheets.

Ken
---
staffan@serum.kodak.com
From: ddefend@urbana.mcd.mot.com (Dan Defend)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Hurricane Andrew's effect on building materials
Date: 8 Sep 92 18:34:56 GMT
Organization: Motorola Computer Group, Urbana Design Center

Does anyone have any information or opinions about the length, magnitude, or
comprehensiveness of the effect of Hurricane Andrew on the prices of building 
materials -- in particular, in the midwest.

Thanks,
-----
Dan Defend
ddefend@urbana.mcd.mot.com
uiucuxc!udc!ddefend
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: akarpowicz@mta.ca (Adam Karpowicz)
Subject: gutters
Reply-To: akarpowicz@mta.ca
Organization: Mount Allison U, Sackville, N.B. Canada 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1992 00:52:12 GMT


Hello there,

I had aluminum gutters installed in my house some time ago.  Originally,
I wanted downspouts only on two corners (house is square) to drain water
away from the driveway.  Shortly after the installation, however, after
raining, water was overflowing at one of the remaining corners.  I called
the guys back - they claimed the gutters could not be installed level
enough to avoid this and installed a third downspout at that corner.
Now most of the water is drained through the third downspout, at the least
desirable location, barely dripping at the other two.  The problem is
compounded by leaves, which plug the downspout solid in no time, with
water squirting through cracks in the joint onto siding, peeling paint
away.  
I do not know much about gutters etc., but it seems to me the job was
poorly done.  I had a conversation with the installers - they say
as long as I keep removing leaves, there is no problem.

My questions are:

1. Is it normal to install gutter(s) to drain unevenly (in this case
   one end was about 3" below the other at 30' length)
2. Is it possible to level a gutter by that much? How?
3. Should joints where gutters meet downspouts be leak-free (allowing
   water to overflow only over the rim of a gutter)?
4. If levelling the gutter is indeed imposible, what could be done to
   get water to flow the other way, or at least evenly towards both ends?
5. Should I demand a correction?  Of course, I will be removing leaves,
   anyway.
6. What if all gutters are removed?  

Thanks in advance

Adam
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: impett@super.org (Richard L Impett)
Subject: Re: Home security tips from a burglar
Organization: Supercomputing Research Center (Bowie, MD)
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 16:52:25 GMT


>> Question for you electrical wiring gurus. I'd like to wire up a pair of
>> floodlights to a three-way switch in such a manner that in one position
>> the lights are driven by a motion detector and in the other position
>> they are on. I would also put a single pole switch upstream to let me cut
>> the thing off by cutting the power to the 3-way.

I too wanted to do something like this. It turns out that some (all?)
motion detectors have a mechanism like this already built into them, i.e.
you do not need to do any special wiring.

When the single pole switch is in the off position, since you have no power
going to the light, the light is off.

When the power switch is turned on, the light is off until motion is detected,
after which it is on for a user-selectable time, and then turns off again.

Now comes the tricky part. If you turn the switch on, turn it off, and turn it
on again quickly (I don't know how quickly), the light comes on and stays
on (until you turn the switch off naturally).

Rick Impett (impett@super.org)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: patter@dasher.uucp (24224-guthrie)
Subject: Re: Romex & Thinwall Question
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 92 22:07:04 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.165843.18970@donner.SanDiego.NCR.COM> davel@booboo.SanDiego.NCR.COM (David Lord) writes:

>............................................. As far as running romex
>through conduit I'd call my building inspector on that. There are
>instances where it's allowed, I don't know if yours is one of them.

I was checking out the regs a few years ago for wiring up a main service
cable and came across a section on running romex through conduit. Going
on memory, the section basically said that you can do this. There are
restrictions on the angles of any bends in the conduit, and the conduit
must be considerably larger than the wire (my recollection is that the
diameter of the conduit must be a little more than twice the width of
the romex at its widest point). There was a table in the book of sizes.

Your local library usually will have a copy of the electrical code used
in your area. It's not a complete substitute for getting your inspector
on the phone, but it will give you an idea of what can be legally done.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                    | "Under Consideration": We never heard of it.
George Patterson -  | "Under Active Consideration": We're searching the
                    |    files for it.
                    |         Kelvin Throop - The Management Dictionary
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: jadams@vixen.uucp (22475-adams)
Subject: Re: removing magic marker from brick
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 18:01:29 GMT
Summary: Goof Off?
Keywords: indelible ink

In article <6912@tekig7.PEN.TEK.COM>, johnst@tekig6.PEN.TEK.COM (John F Stoops) writes:
> My children's school was recently vandalized - someone wrote on the brick walls
> with one of those felt tip pins with black indelible ink. Does anybody know of any 
> solvent that will get this out?  I would prefer not to sand down the brick because 
> I believe the outside of the brick is harder than the inside and I don't want to 
> remove the glazed surface(is this true or am I out to lunch?).  Any help in how to 
> clean off the ink would be greatly appreciated.

Assuming the glazing non-porous, Goof Off may be the ticket in this instance.  If
the glaze has the slightest porosity, Goof Off will only drive the stain further
into the brick ;^(

Jack (John) Adams		| Bellcore NVC 2Z-220
(908) 758-5372 {Voice}		| (908) 758-4389 {Facsimile}
jadams@vixen.bellcore.com	| kahuna@attmail.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
         -- If it's a good idea, go ahead and do it.  It's much easier to 
	 apologize than it is to get permission. -- Grace Murray Hopper (1906-1992). 
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: patter@dasher.uucp (24224-guthrie)
Subject: Re: wait to finish the deck?
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 92 18:34:54 GMT

In article <15840186@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com> jkim@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com (Jae HuKim) writes:

>this makes sense to me, so i thought that i'd wait until next year before 
>sanding the deck (redwood) and finishing it.
>
>any comments?

During that year make sure that you keep the deck clean. Most especially,
don't let any leaves stay on the deck long enough to get rained on. Many
leaves (oaks are real bad at this) will stain the wood if they get wet.
If the deck gets stained, you'll have to use a cleaner before staining,
and the cleaner will soak into the wood. Then you'll have to wait another
year on *that* to dry!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                    | I had been told that the best defense is a good
George Patterson -  | offense, so I made up my mind early in life to
                    | become as offensive as possible.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------