From: czl30@duts.ccc.amdahl.com (Chris Lee)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: The Bible As A Rorschach
Date: 8 Jan 93 21:36:38 GMT
Reply-To: czl30@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Chris Lee)
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <1993Jan8.004445.17608@arden.linet.org> joeb@arden.linet.org (Joe Beiter) writes:
>
>For myself, I have experienced all three of your examples to be false at 
>times.  Thus my reason for being here.  I'm observing the few convincing
>champions of the Atheistic reality here to see if I can relate to their
>view.  Most don't seem to be any more convinced than the typical 'weekend

Actually you've got it wrong. They just see no reason to believe in any
god or religion. Life works just as well without any religion or god, and
they don't have the hangups that adherence to a religion often brings.

"Weekend christian"? I'm not sure I understand exactly what you mean. But
all atheism is, is an absence of belief. It is not any kind of belief
system, in spite of what the evangelists and preachers might tell you, so
we're not lukewarm anything. We just get on with our own lives, doing
whatever we do best. Nobody makes a fuss unless somebody tries to impose
themselves or their religion on us. Remember, this is OUR board, we can
talk about atheist problems, swap stories etc. and you have intruded with
your preconceived wrong ideas of what an atheist is.

I have heard so many born-again fundies claim they used to be atheists
that I sometimes wonder if they think atheist is another word for
lukewarm christian. Is that what you meant by "weekend christian"?

>christian' when confronted by the hard reality proposed by the Bible.

Which hard reality is that? If you expect an atheist to believe everything
in the bible, you have to:

 (1) Explain why he should believe everything in the bible without using
     circular arguments (It is the word of God. Why? Because the bible
     says so. Why? Because it's the word of God.).

 (2) Explain the contradictions. You can't do this by invoking "God" or
     "Satan", because the atheist has no reason to believe that these
     entities exist. Actually you can, but before you do, you have to:

     (2.1) Explain why we should believe in "God" rather than Zeus,
           Osiris, Mithras, Appollo, Jupiter, Thor or any of the other
           gods of the other religions, without using any argument that
           could equally apply to any other god/religion (God is the only
           god because the bible says so, when the Koran says the same
           thing about Allah, and the Bhagavad-Gita says that Rama is
           the supreme god).

 (3) Explain why the bible should be given any more credence than the
     Bhagavad-Gita, or the Koran, or the Vedas, or any of the other
     sacred writings of the other religions.

>
>>> The way I see it, toss out the philosophical 'perspective' crap then only
>>> one is right (or both are wrong).

But all religions are equally valid in that people sincerely believe them,
and that they include codes of ethics for their followers. And all these
give different answers to the Ultimate Question.

>>
>>Well, as I see it, that `philosophical "perspective" crap' you are 
>>talking about is the basis of much ofthisdiscussion.
>>
>
>True, and most of it pointless and useless for myself.  I'm looking for
>ultimate truth, not perceived truth.
>

That is the root of the problem. We don't know the ultimate truth. We are
getting closer all the time to understanding the universe, but we still
don't know everything, and we probably never will: Once upon a time
physicists thought they had everything neatly packaged with protons,
neutrons and electrons. Then along came mesons, quarks etc.. But we are
getting closer all the time.

To say "God" did it does not answer the question. To an atheist that
creates another question. Who/what created "God", and then who or what
made "God's" creator? The fundamentalist reply that nobody created "God"
because "God" has always been there has an obvious answer: If nobody
created "God", why does anybody have to have created the universe?

The additional question for the believers is : How did "god" do it?

Atheists and believers of all religions work together to answer this
even if they cannot agree on the ultimate question itself.

>-- 
> -|:..Joe.Beiter@arden.linet.org          TCOC: Public Access..:|-
>  -|:..........................................................:|-

Chris Lee

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