From: faraz.rabbani@canrem.com (faraz rabbani)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: re: pakistan is lilbit di
Date: 3 Jan 93 18:35:13 GMT
Reply-To: "faraz rabbani" <faraz.rabbani@canrem.com>
Distribution: soc
Organization: Canada Remote Systems


 RR> faraz rabbani (faraz.rabbani@canrem.com) wrote:
 RR> :
 RR> : You mentioned neo-nazis.  So I say that DO Jews go en masse to
 RR> : Germany and "take" justice from the German people for what was done
 RR> : to Jews during the Holocaust?  Similarly, tearing down a mosque 450
 RR> : years later makes no sense.  The Spaniards don't tear down the
 RR> : Moors' mosques as a response to some alleged Moor atrocities...

 RR> Thanks. Now I get the connection. That's right you can't do that
 RR> kind of thing.

I am glad that we agree -- a rare thing between Hindus and Muslims
in SCP!!! <grin>

 [stuff deleted]
 :  RR> And you forgot to reply to my poser on how to decide when a demand
 :  RR> for secession was legit and when it wasn't.
 RR> :
 RR> : To that I have no reply.  Legitimacy depends on point of view.
 RR> : Surely, the now-110 million Pakistanis and 120 million BenglaDeshis
 RR> : prefer independance to being part of "India".  For most Muslims, the
 RR> : thought of living under a non-Muslim majority is not a good
 RR> : prospect; as a situation of Muslim majority/dominance is not a good
 RR> : prospect for Hindus.

 RR> That is not what I'm disputing. Sometimes secessionist movements are
 RR> born out of sustained propaganda and sometimes out of the genuine
 RR> aspirations of the people of that region. OK you're a muslim and I
 RR> am a hindu. Do we have any problems with each other? But our two
 RR> communities keep telling us that the other side is bad and devilish.
 RR> Now this could be the result of sustained propaganda. Maybe, maybe
 RR> not. But the fact is that we could easily live with each other.
 RR> There could be small problems that crop up from time to time. When
 RR> two Hindus fight we attribute it to their being immature or bad or
 RR> whatever. But if one of them happened to be Muslim we would say
 RR> "Hey! No wonder! Muslims are all vermin." You see this attitude is to
 RR> be rooted out. And I'm afraid that educated people don't seem to
 RR> realise that. Why not take a person for what he/she is instead of
 RR> bringing his /her language or uncle or religion or the size of his
 RR> butt in ?! That's what happened when pre-partition India got divided.
 RR> Hate propaganda started getting floated around. And this is what
 RR> happened. Hey if you and I don't have any problems with each other I
 RR> don't see why we need to live in two different countries. The need
 RR> arises only if we can't live peacefully. And the lie that we cannot
 RR> live peacefully was fed to us by some leaders.

Well...  the thing is that Muslims have some very definite ideas on
government and society and Hindus have others.  Muslims would not
feel comfortable always being under Hindu-majority rule, and Hindus
would probably resent any "special" rights given to a Muslim
majority.   

I would personally advocate (in an ideal world) self-government in
India and Pakistan and BenglaDesh and SriLanka, but the
establishment of a large free-trade zone; rather like the European
Community or the NAFTA -- a common economic market.  This makes
sense to me: we have our social and religious differences, and thus
should govern ourselves, but are similar enough (esp.  popular, mass
culture)  to be able to trade and exchange ideas... 

 RR> We spend so much money on our armed forces.
 
Too much.  Were this money to be spent on infrastructure, education,
health, etc., we might be able to progress incredibly.  After all,
Taiwan, Korea, etc.  were far behind us economically right after
WWII, but are now WAY ahead. 

If the right conditions were to be created in our home countries,
then I am sure that a lot of the "exported brainpower" living in
North America and Europe would return home and lend their expertise
in the advancement of our economies...

 RR> OK. Let's take Pakistan for example. You're all Muslim. Is there
 RR> peace in your country ? No. You see, villains will always find some
 RR> scapegoat or the other to create havoc. They thrive on it.

Exactly, and the exploitation of assumed (real or not) religious
differences is one of the easiest ways to gather support for
oneself, especially in a democracy where the masses lack education.
We hate each other for reasons we are TOLD, but have not personally
experienced (most of the time)...

 RR> : I, for one, hope that (sometime in the future) the subcontinent may
 RR> : one day be able to build stronger economic ties.  With these is
 RR> : bound to come the realisation that we are very similar and CAN
 RR> : coexist.

 RR> Sure.

But how realistic is all this?  I wonder...  Maybe in our lifetime
we will see some GREAT leadership in the subcontinent that trascends
the petty differences and disputes and politicking and vested
interests and REALLY works for the best interests of the people...

Faraz Rabbani
Toronto, Canada

faraz.rabbani@canrem.com
(some stuff deleted for brevity)

... Do I BELIEVE in the Bible?!  HELL man, I've SEEN one!!!
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