HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ksm@abb-sc.abb-sc.com (Ashley)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Mikey
Date: 18 Nov 92 17:27:16 GMT
Organization: Kaos Laboratories


In article <1992Nov17.225316.3917@u.washington.edu>, mimir@hardy.u.washington.edu (Al Billings) writes...
>In article <BxvGtv.3BB@encore.com> aaldrich@encore.com (Al Aldrich) writes:
>>
>>Please don't blame the child for the parents irresponsibility.
>>The child IS a wonderful child. Why doesn't this `community' talk
>>to the mother and demand that she address the obvious problem?
>>		(.........)

> What you propose is lovely but, as has been pointed out with the male
>issue recently here, what do you do if she doesn't listen. People HAVE
>told her that she isn't doing the right thing. People have done it in a
>nice way. People have done it in a pissed way. She's the mother and she
>knows best, from what I've been told of her response. She has enough pull
>  (.................)


	Parents have this funny blind spot when it comes to their own kids. 
The only way I've ever seen the parents learn is when they are shown an 
annoying example of EXACTLY what they are doing in another person's child. 
Sometimes they even find a way to ignore that too. Well mine isn't that bad 
and other excuses. Here's a good example of parents ignoring reality in 
favor of indulging their infernal infant.

	I was in a public park once and saw a child beating on a family 
dog. The father and mother where laying on the grass, dad holding the dog's 
leash, and his child was chasing the dog around, smacking it on the face with 
a toy hammer. The dog was terrified and trying desparately to get away. I 
can't imagine being whacked on the snout with a wooden hammer felt too nice. 
The father and mother where laughing and goading the kid on with "Where's the 
doggie?" and other such baby-talk dreck. 
	I walked over and told them that this was cruelty to animals and 
asked if they could see that the dog was being hurt? Their response was that 
their child wouldn't really hurt the dog, besides, he was only a child, so the 
blows couldn't really hurt. By now there was some blood on the Irish Setter's 
nose and s/he was crying and whimpering. I went off and called the humane 
society, silently hoping that the dog would get pissed off and give the child 
a good bite. Better yet, bite dad who was holding the leash and not letting 
him/her get away from that toddling terror.

	Just a nice example of how incredibly blind to reality 
kids can make their parents from your friendly neighborhood...

				- Ashley
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: parnham_c@cubldr.colorado.edu
Subject: FAQ? FAQ? Here FAQ!
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 16:42:21 GMT

FAQ, FAQ, Has anybody seen a FAQ?  It might keep me from asking other, ahem,
normal questions.   E-mail would be great.

	Thanks,
	Charles
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: markbr%radian@natinst.com (markbr)
Subject: Re: Women and Men Witches
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 18:46:14 GMT
Organization: n.o.y.b

In article <1992Nov21.071035.4377@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> radzy@ICSI.Berkeley.EDU (T. O. Radzykewycz) writes:
<snip>
>cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
>> Because women have been so shit on for so long and done nothing about
>> it through swallowing all the drek ...  that it is necessary
>> to weigh down a little harder on our side. ....  You have to
>> smack them over the head with alternative possiblities.
>
>Janis -- I have a *lot* of respect for you, and I really appreciate
>when you try to give people a jolt, to get them thinking.  But I
>just can't sit here and read this without wondering if you *realize*
>that when you talk about smacking people over the head, you're really
>describing how much *YOU* desire power-over!
>
>Please, Janis, think about it.  Try to understand yourself.
>
Sorry Bear, but *I* don't see it. How does the desire to smack people over 
the head, as one slaps a hysterical person, indicate desire for power?

	mark

Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: uphrrmk@Msu.oscs.montana.edu
Subject: Who was that scary guy?
Reply-To: uphrrmk@Msu.oscs.montana.edu
Organization: Montana State University
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 00:33:18 GMT

Hi, Janis, Amy, Al, and other wonderful all and sundry folk.

     I'm wondering how often these serious Fundamentalists come on the
alt.pagan.  Every once in a while, I keep seeing some arrogant, pompous 
anonymous someone putting things on the net that are insulting.  I don't
mind debate, but--well, you've probably seen 'em, and have a pretty good idea 
what they're doing.  I'm just kinda nervous about it.  

     I'm just getting paranoid, maybe because I'm still getting the hang of
this Northwestern thang.  Just the other week, I read about a neo-nazi compound
in Idaho, and how these jokers are seriously thinking about an Aryan Home-
land.  They want Washington, Oregon, Idaho, Montana, and, I think, Wyoming.
(Read it in the Billings Gazette, can probably get quotes if interested.)
This is coupled with a local guy wanting to buy out a small, recession-hit
town and become it's mayor.  This guy's a very serious Fundamentalist,
and wants to "work God's will" to save the town.  Seems there's at least one
really scary religion-based thing going on every month, which is really bad
considering the population of Montana is 750,000.
 
     Yeah, yeah...I'm whimpering to myself again, and it's likely I'll get
flamed for it .  But what I'm wondering is,  how far can these people go to
try and get us?  I've read about the Colorado ruling,8*(  and I know Seattle
just barely fought off a measure nearly identical.  Exactly how powerful are
the Religious right in the Northwest?  How nervous is justifiably nervous?

                               Thanks to the person who told me about the 
                               Practicing tribes; no sign yet, but my eyes
                               are open, and I'll be happy and hopeful.

                               Also thanks for the parenting advice from 
                               everybody!
 
                               La Mort.
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: jimoates@panix.com (Jim Oates)
Subject: Sexual Personae
Summary: Sexual Personae and Paganism
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 21:04:36 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC
Keywords: Camille Paglia

I thought this may be interesting.  The following is a quote 
from the preface to Camille Paglia's book, "Sexual Personae":

	"I argue that Judeo-Christianity never did
	defeat paganism, which still flourishes in
	art, eroticism, astrology, and pop culture."

I've just started the book; so far, it is quite an eye-opener.
Has anyone out there in alt.pagan read it?  I'd be curious to
hear from anyone about there reactions to the book.

I know, I know, people either love or hate Camille Paglia.
Maybe everyone here hates her: either way, I'd like to hear
some comments.

Thanks,
Jim

jimoates@panix.com


-- 
Admit Nothing
Blame Everyone
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,talk.politics.guns
From: andy@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (Andy Freeman)
Subject: Re: the US elections...
Followup-To: talk.politics.guns
Organization: Computer Science Department,  Stanford University.
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 19:25:50 GMT

In article <1992Nov20.200317.13192@eskimo.com> feathers@eskimo.com (Cheryl Owen) writes:
>  If there's no answer to this then I'll assume that the gun nut
>types are posting about guns indiscriminately wherever they will and
>that no one else really minds, or perhaps even notices since they seem
>to do it a *lot*.

Not at all.  The gun controllers/banners post in inappropriate groups
and the pro-gun people respond in those groups.*  (The pro-gun people
also try to move the discussion - look at the followup-to of this
message.)  That suggests both a strategy and a target if you want to
keep icky gun topics out of your pure pagan newsgroup.

If you're unwilling to address the root of a thread ....

Some of the people who initiate gun discussions in inappropriate
groups also initiate other discussions in those groups.

-andy

* - The alternative is to concede the argument.
--
UUCP:    {arpa gateways, sun, decwrl, uunet, rutgers}!cs.stanford.edu!andy
ARPA:    andy@cs.stanford.edu
From: "deron douglas" <deron.douglas@canrem.com>
Subject: burnt at the stake !
Reply-To: "deron douglas" <deron.douglas@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: alt
Date: 16 Nov 92 20:20:45 EST

Warning: Its not safe out there !

I felt that during these "Enlightened" times I could be more direct about my
beliefs, so while having lunch with a person from work I was asked what my
beliefs were (who knows why?).

I have known this person for about a year and a bit now so I though that
she could keep an open mind and at least listen, boy was I wrong!

As soon as I mentioned Wicca and the Craft (no  further details just these
two words), first she looked at me for a time (in silence),  then laughed...

A asked her why and all she could say was "that's NOT a religion", I was
ready to throw some bad "shit" her way but regained my senses.  I tried
to calmly explain that "The Old Religion" has been around for a very long
time and is older than Christianity and Islam (she's Muslim)... she just
walked away.....

I discovered that my "friend" has a VERY closed mind and wouldn't even give
me the decent respect to atleast listen (she asked?)....

In any event, I learned a lesson, its no safer out there then as it was in
the past (during the Inquistition)....

If she had her way, I'd be roasted right now...

        Blessed be
---
  DeLuxe 1.26b #815  <<<<<<< - Mississauga - Ontario - Canada - >>>>>>>
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
From: liam%alehaus.uucp@brewich.hou.tx.us (liam)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Who are we kidding?
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 92 20:28:48 CST
Organization: The Alehaus, a Brewer's Witch affiliate, alehaus@brewich.hou.tx.us

markbr%radian@natinst.com (markbr) writes:

> In article <92324.12555234AEJ7D@CMUVM.BITNET> <34AEJ7D@CMUVM.BITNET> writes:
> >In article <2B0A8245.16232@news.service.uci.edu>, cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (J
> >Maria Cortese) says:
> >>
> >[incredible deluge of drivel deleted]
> >>
> >>something else have a shot at it.  Right now, all I want to do is find
> >>some quiet little island or something to live on so I can avoid as much
> >>of the splat as I can when the shit finally hits the fan.
> >>
> >>Janis
> >
> >An excellent idea in this instance. Preferably one without net access.
> 
> Dear Rude, ignorant, and thoughtless asshole: 
>    I think most of us here would rather *you* go away. This is *certainly*
> no contribution to discussion. I note you're too cowardly to even give
> yourself a name.
> 
>    Gee, folks, these guys remind me of the Republican jerk (can't remember
> his name) who showed up on U.T. campus last spring, to give a speech about
> how pollution isn't dangerous, etc.
> 
> 	mark

        I wasn't there for thhat particular asshole, but I do know some 
of the same type....but with more nerve.  They (most of them) at
least CLAIM thier bullshit instead of sniping anonymously(sp?) from out 
in the bushes as it were. 
        Very cowardly indeed....
                                Liam (I claim my words)

------------------
liam%alehaus@brewich.hou.tx.us
Origin: The Alehaus -- Houston, TX -- 
     If you don't vote....DON'T BITCH
                                -unknown

Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: falcore@gatecom.UUCP (Carolyn C. Doss L.V.T.)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Just an observation
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 92 11:57:48 EST
Organization: Gateway Communication Inc.

<stuff deleted>
   Hi Marc,
          Perhaps I have misunderstood feminism as I stated I am still 
learning .......part of the purpose of our lives journey is to learn and 
grow .....I will look into this more and try to gain a better understanding 
before making statements like these again.

                Blessed Be!

                 Carolyn 


P.S. To those who have voiced similar opinions as these ....Thank you all 
for your insight!

//////////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
\\\\      Falcore@gatecom.UUCP (Carolyn C. Doss L.V.T. )     ////
////                    I Love My Critters !!                \\\\
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\///////////////////////////////////
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: uphrrmk@Msu.oscs.montana.edu
Subject: Re: Records with stickers (was Censorship & Tipper)
Reply-To: uphrrmk@Msu.oscs.montana.edu
Organization: Montana State University
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 00:34:19 GMT

In article <17NOV199207570716@jane.uh.edu>, lib1p@jane.uh.edu (Tammy Stark Blandino) writes:
>In article <gate.X4V8TB1w165w@pil.UUCP>, alizard@pil writes...
>>Re: Re: the US elections...
>>By: markbr%radian #0 @natinst.com (markbr) USEnet      
>> 
>>> From: markbr%radian@natinst.com (markbr)
>>> Newsgroups: alt.pagan
>>> Subject: Re: the US elections...
>>> Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 23:06:41 GMT
>>> The problem is, as I saw a news report on, that there are many record
>>> stores, and department stores, simply refuse to sell *any* records
>>> with stickers on them at all. How do you deal with that?
>>> mark
>> 
>>Time to rename this part of the thread. 
>> 
>>If you are a fundie, you count a refusal by stores to carry records with
>>the stickers as total victory and look for another store chain or public
>>library to intimidate.
>> 
Yeah, and sometimes laundromats.>
>
>So someone needs to open up a record store and make sure every
>record with a sticker gets in there.  Then make sure EVERYONE
>knows that those records are there.  Yes you will get a lot of
>flak from the fundies, but guess what.....you will make a fortune
>from all those people who want those albums and can't seem to
>get them anywhere else.
> Cool idea. I love it!  Maybe at last I'll find some old Bauhaus!
>When I went to get the Bodycount album Soundwarehouse had already
>pulled it from there shelves.  A local store, Cactus Records,
>made a fortune off the album because of it.  All I had to say
>was "where is..." and the guy pointed his finger before I got
>the word Bodycount out.
>
>So F*ck 'em all if they can't take a joke!
>8-)
>
>(Sorry guys, just feeling in a snotty mood this morning.)
>Tammy
>lib1p@jetson.uh.edu
Cactus records? CACTUS RECORDS?!?!?!?!  Where are you?  
I happen to live in Bozeman, Mt, and I've been desparately looking for ANY 
resident pagans!  WE have a Cactus records next to the Leaf & Bean Coffee shop.
Is Cactus records a chain for the Northwest, or are you local?!?!?
                                With hope and joy,
                                (even if you're not local, I'm glad there's 
                                 another CActus records around somewhere!)
                       
                                La Mort, scaring the locals and shakin, the
                                bushes. 
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: pharvey@quack.sac.ca.us (Paul Harvey)
Subject: Re: the five stages
Organization: The Duck Pond public unix: +1 408 249 9630, log in as 'guest'.
Date: 17 Nov 1992 06:40:51 UTC

In article <2116@hsdndev.UUCP> traite@eros.harvard.edu (Shirley Traite) writes:
> They are from  Elisabeth Kubler-Ross's Book _On Death and Dying_ .
> She outlines the "typical" stages people go through when they are
> faced with a termimal illness.  The stages can also be applied to
> any loss such as the end of a relationship, the loss of a job etc.
> I heartily reccomend the book!
> Blessings.
> Shirley
> (I was social worker before I got sick being laid-off)

Have you seen the movie, "All that Jazz?" The five stages are the theme.
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: msantoro@ruacad.ac.runet.edu (Michael G. Santoroski)
Subject: Radord U Responds to A2
Organization: Radford University
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 02:24:45 GMT
From: lib1p@jane.uh.edu (Tammy Stark Blandino)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: the Deteriorata
Date: 20 Nov 1992 17:43 CST
Organization: University of Houston
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: jane.uh.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

In article <2B09D3AB.22370@news.service.uci.edu>, cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes...
>Finally found it!  I knew I had it around somewhere!
> 
> 
>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>				===========
>				Deteriorata
>				===========
>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


..all but one line deleted for purposes of this post
> 
>Remember the Pueblo.


YES!



(Sorry guys, it's personal.)


The Pueblo, like many other things the government tries not to
mention, is another reason to hang our heads in shame...or at
least Uncle Sam should....ha...that'll be the day.


Tammy
From: lrabe@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Lee A Rabe)
Subject: Does anyone know...
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 23:17:59 GMT

...of any good pagan related shops in the Berkeley/San Francisco area?
My SO and I are headed out there for the Thanksgiving weekend, and are
interested in doing a little shopping. :)

Any and all suggestions are appreciated.

Thanks

TopCat


From: Steve.Dugas@iphase.infoserv.com (Steve Dugas)
Sender: FredGate@iphase.infoserv.com
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Monogamy, Polygamy, and raising children (Was: Falling in Love
Date: 22 Nov 92 02:45:00 EST

I agree with a lot of what you are saying.  Could the common
 denomenator be LOVE?  In a loving relationship the well being of all
 is paramount to the extent that the children are not burdened with a
 lot of false affection as a power play.  Quite often in an unhealthy
 relationship between the adults, the children are maneuvered like
 chess pawns and pampered for the wrong reasons.  You must love your
 children enough to be able to tell them NO when necessary, no matter
 how bad it hurts.  Yes I agree that One loving, nurturing parent is
better than a larger group of adults in a high tension and anxiety
 filled household.  The challenge is putting together the right group,
 because I still feel that if the loving atmosphere can be maintained,
 more than two would be better.
.
                                  Steve Dugas

 * Origin: U_PAGAN: <<<<<<<<<< RE-ELECT NOBODY! >>>>>>>>>> (1:112/29)

Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: casspa@atlantis.CS.ORST.EDU (Paul Cass)
Subject: Musings
Organization: Computer Science Outreach Services - Oregon State University
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 21:17:25 GMT

If this appeared before (at double length) I appoligize.  It was not
until I read my own post that I realized that the entire group of
limericks were repeated in the article.  I plead quilty to sloppyness
but Pnews and two glasses of cheap wine must share the blame.

A virile young witch from Pine Bluff
Thought rituals were never enough
	When wrapped in clothes
	Shirt, tie, pants and bows
So he practiced his craft in the buff.

Now the witch - one Henry by name
Felt solitaire his type of game
	He leapt and sprung
	To songs he gave tongue
And the view from the rear brought him fame.

Now a Dianic group in St. Croix
Believed the men were no source of joy
	So the God in the Fall
	Was not there at all
But was played by a lesbian named Roy

This coven that hated men's sass
Were trancing while out in the grass
	The power they raised
	Let them see a long ways
And they spotted the young Henry's ass.

The coven heard Henry sing
And the 13 saw his tush swing
	It gave them pause
	Then sufficient cause
To re-enact the rite of Corn King

A mighty cone they did raise
Young Henry was caught - in a daze
	His ritual left him
	His senses bereft him
Amid powerful visions of maize.

And then the Fairies did come
No voices - alas - they were dumb
	They too on a quest
	For a Pan who does jest
Then lo, they spied Henry's bum.

Now the Gardners out in Peru
Cried, "Forsooth, this never will do
	For he practices bare
	With nary a care
He therefore belongs to us too."

Old Crowley alone in his grave
Turned over and started to rave,
	"What's come to pass?
	You're playing grab ass
And starting to practice deprave."

Then Gaia, the quarreling awoke
"What's this going on with my folk?
	Three covens and a mage
	Want bum center stage
Have you garnered consensus from the bloke?"

So together as one they all came
To celebrate Life and the Name
	Of Goddess and God
	Nuts, sweetfruit, and pod
But Henry went home just the same.

BB
Casspa


-- 
                          * * * * * * *
"It is possible to join forces, to identify common goals, and to agree on
 common action." - U.N. World Commission on Development and Environment
		       casspa@jacobs.cs.orst.edu
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: uphrrmk@Msu.oscs.montana.edu
Subject: Re: Description of the Fetal Remains from an Abortion
Reply-To: uphrrmk@Msu.oscs.montana.edu
Organization: Montana State University
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 20:09:57 GMT

In article <Bxy54p.B2H@cscns.com>, rks@cscns.com (Island's Child) writes:
>dsh@eceyv.ncsu.edu () writes:
>:   "It was easy to shrug off an aborted pregnancy as nothing more than
>:    a sack of blood and globs of tissue--as many pro-choice activists
>:    did--if one never saw fetal remains, or products of conception (POC),
>:    as they were known in medical circles.  But the nurses, medical
>
>(remainder of sensationalist drivel deleted)
>
>This crap reminds me of the horror movies they used to show in high 
>school to convince us that we must drive safely.
>
>Listen, you andskotans, djolfulsins, marg-heilaskadadur faviti, if
>you can't make your argument with logic and reason, how about just
>shutting the hell up!

Really. I'm just so sick of these assholes.
>
>In a free society, we are not going to like the choices that everyone
>makes. Nevertheless, the only way to assure that you are free to *not*
>have an abortion is to make sure that we are likewise free to *have*
>an abortion. The only way that *you* will be free to have *your* beliefs
>is to make sure that *I* am free to have my *beliefs*. Can you grasp
>that concept without too much trouble? 
>
>Why don't you take this crap to talk.pro-life.we.wanna.run.your.life
 Because they're usually convinced that us "Godless" pagan-folk have to 
be subjugated, oppressed, tortured, driven underground, and murdered.
So it's their duty to try to 'SAVE' us with the bullshit.
Burning down the village to save it, don't ya know.>
>Exucuse the Icelandic cursing. It is too disgusting to put in English.
>
 I concur, the miserable nye kulturnii bastard sons of Jerry Falwell.
>wassail..
      and don't forget the cheesecake with raspberries!>
La mort.
Xref: sparky alt.pagan:13057 alt.romance:14311 alt.sex:36787
From: major@shuksan (Mike Schmitt)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,alt.romance,alt.sex
Subject: Re: raising children
Date: 18 Nov 92 20:43:28 GMT
Organization: Man Machine Systems Technology
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

:      You have to prove there is a God before you can say that little
: kids or anything for that matter is a precious gift from God.


  Sorta like trying to prove there really is a California, huh?
  Except for all the California license plates in Washington State -
  how do I *REALLY* know California exists?  They could all be make in a
  Utah prison.

  You gotta wonder........







 
-- 
Mike Schmitt - Disclaimer: These opinions are not my employer's.  My opinions 
are protected by the 1st Amendment of the Constitution of the United States of
America.  If you don't like it - get out of my country.   
"Professionals are predictable, it's the amateurs that are dangerous."
Newsgroups: alt.pagan