From: starr-daniel@yale.edu (Daniel Starr)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Conversion Question
Date: 17 Nov 1992 14:16:00 -0500
Organization: Yale University Science & Engineering UNIX(tm), New Haven, CT 06520-2158
NNTP-Posting-Host: minerva.cis.yale.edu

Dima,

Your position seems to me to be (correct me if I misstate) that
(1) Orthodox Judaism is the only true Judaism.
    We know this because it arises out of correct interpretation and strict
    adherence to the Torah, which defines our religion.
(2) C and R "Judaism" is the watering-down of true Judaism for convenience
      of living in a (goyish) modern society.
    We know this because these "Judaisms" do not correctly interpret and
    strictly follow the Torah, and because their misinterpretations and
    lapses consistently tend to make it easier to live in such a society.

I have two problems with this:
(1)  The Orthodox interpretation of Torah is not literal -- the milk-and-meat
     prohibition, for example, is not written in so many words in the Torah.
     Similarly, the definition of work on the Sabbath for obvious reasons does
     not literally include automobile usage.  All the
     provisions about sacrifices are of necessity abandoned.  Further, much
     of Orthodox practice rests on interpretations from the Midrash and
     Talmud -- wise men wrote these, to be sure, but they were not writing with
     divine inspiration and there is no surety of their accuracy.

What this demonstrates is that there is no guarantee that the Orthodox
interpretation of the Torah (et al) is the right one.  All that is clear is
that it is the one that demands the greatest restrictions on behavior.  It
is _not_ the most literal interpretation possible -- witness the milk-and-meat
prohibition.  Merely the generally most conservative and restrictive.

(2)  There is a lack of evidence that Judaism was intended to be a completely
     binding code of conduct independent of external society.  We have, 
     throughout the Torah, instances of Jews interacting with Gentiles without
     the Gentiles remarking that the Jews dressed strangely or were always a
     silent and sober people.  It is the religious observances that get
     remarked upon.  Look at the Song of Songs, or the description
     of the behavior of David and Solomon.  Such things may not be models
     of behavior, but that they could occur at all casts doubts on such
     restrictive interpretations of the Torah as being the "true original".

This suggests to me that it is the Orthodox interpretations that have been
deliberately restrictive as compared to the ancient following of the law,
as opposed to the C and R interpretations as being deliberately loose.  It
may be good to be more restrictive, but without the support of this having
been the original intent, it is not more true as Judaism.

This means that, without further evidence (which you might like to supply?),
I at least do not have a basis for believing the Orthodox reading of Torah
to be the (only) accurate one.  You clearly believe this, but why?  If there is
no reason to believe the Orthodox interpretation 'privileged' in this sense
-- that it is a more genuine following of the law as it was intended to
be followed -- then Orthodox Jews may be demonstrating a mitzvah of discipline,
but are not qualitatively more genuine than Conservative or Reform Jews.


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|Daniel Starr                | "Wait! Wait! Maybe THIS will work!" |
|dstarr@minerva.cis.yale.edu |                                     |
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