HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jhenderson@pomona.claremont.edu
Subject: Definition of Service Ceiling
Organization: Pomona College
Date: 11 Sep 92 12:14:51 PDT

In article <1992Sep11.172022.26434@hpcvusn.cv.hp.com>, mark@hpcvxmsr.cv.hp.com
> My understanding was that the service ceiling of an aircraft was
> the altitude at which the plane could no longer maintain a 500 fpm
> rate of climb.

In a Cessna 152, that happens at pattern altitude ;-)

I believe 100 fpm is the figure to be used here (I know, check the facts before
you post...but the main reason I'm posting is to make that silly remark
above...)

______________________________________________________________________________
Javier Henderson, N6VBG         | Beat the 55mph limit (legally):
jhenderson@pomona.claremont.edu | Learn to fly!
From: hudson@pnet51.orb.mn.org (Hudson Leighton)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Overloaded Cherokee Crash comments
Date: 7 Sep 92 13:05:01 GMT
Organization: People-Net [pnet51], Minneapolis, MN.

I never belive what I read in a newspaper that involves anything technical

Several years ago when Northwest Airlines got it's first few Airbus (Airbuss, 
Airbuses?). They had some problems with compressor stalls.  The local paper
reported it as "Engines stall when put into gear" (Lets see stick, ruddet
pedals, gearshift, clutch).


UUCP: {crash tcnet}!orbit!pnet51!hudson
INET: hudson@pnet51.orb.mn.org
ICBM: Lat. 44.59 x lon. 93.13
HAM:  NONMX  444.100 repeater
Advertisement: Try the Railway Post Office BBS (612) 377-2197 a Railfan BBS
From: tpickett@auspex.com (Tom Pickett)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Reno Hotel Needed
Date: 10 Sep 92 22:59:29 GMT
Reply-To: tpickett@auspex.com (Tom Pickett)
Organization: Auspex Systems, Inc.  Engineering

In article <BuDqL1.KF0@vcd.hp.com>, schinner@vcd.hp.com (Jim Schinnerer) 
writes:
> My wife and I are looking for a hotel room in Reno for one night in a few
> weeks.  I would like the hotel to be on the Cannon Airport, as she will
> be departing commercially at 6:50 am.  Then, Buster and I are on the
> way to Truckee, but that's another story...
> 
> Just the hotel name(s) would be ok, but if you had a number, that would
> help too.

As far as I can tell (and I've been going to the Reno Air race every year
since 1969), all of the large hotels in Reno have shuttles to Cannon.
Try Harrahs in Reno, or Ballys Grand, or John Asquaga's Nugget (my favorite)
I think they will all take you to the airport.


Tom Pickett 
tpickett@auspex.com
SHO  GOZE
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: cooper@cos.com (Gary Cooper)
Subject: Re: "Andrew" takes WWII planes (fwd)
Organization: Corporation for Open Systems
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 03:51:46 GMT


Damn.  And I thought it was a shame that two F16's were lost...
(none of which, of course, compares with the "real life" loss,
but the loss of those planes purt near choked me up) 
-- 
gary cooper (not the dead one)     "Non Dignis Sum!" - Waynus and Gartus 
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: venky@thelonious.bellcore.com (G A Venkatesh)
Subject: Re: Canard Pros -n- Cons
Reply-To: venky@thelonious.bellcore.com (G A Venkatesh)
Organization: Bellcore, Morristown NJ
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 15:59:37 GMT

In article <5556@ssc-bee.ssc-vax.boeing.com> prang@ssc-vax.boeing.com (Ron Wanttaja) writes:
>
>My personal opinion?  They make neat looking airplanes, but I dislike the
>compromises.

Could you or someone elaborate on what the compromises actually are? Surely
canard planes aren't designed to provide everything one wants. None of the
planes are. Consider something like the Velocity 173 designed for 172 drivers.
How would it compare in terms of design to what someone may want in a 172 or
in an improvement over the 172?

Here are are my list of pros and cons for canard designs from a practical and
aesthetic point of view:

- The restricted rear passenger view in anything other than a single-seat
version of a canard design.

- Small props. I am not entirely sure what this means for the efficiency.

- Stone hits on the prop. The singlemost disadvantage in a pusher configuration.

- Efficient use of space. Compare a 2/4-seater canard design to any other 
  2/4-seater design. I saw the Lancair ES four-seater in its hangar at 
  Redmond, OR recently and it is huge. I know it is the same airframe design 
  as the Lancair IV but I didn't realize how big it really is until I saw the 
  ES.

- Engine bay fires in flight have been observed to be shooting backwards with 
  very little damage to the firewall. No smoke/oil smattered windshields in
  case of engine failures.

- The difficult-to-stall characteristics that might be just right for some
  people and unbearable for others.

Any others that are not of purely theoretical interest?

venky
From: rkaplan@netcom.com (Richard Kaplan)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Air Lifeline experience
Date: 14 Sep 92 23:04:30 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <WD.92Sep14151159@sam.cs.tu-berlin.de> wd@cs.tu-berlin.de
writes:


>At least for one particular case I can confirm that Mary is right, even if
>it sounds strange. My dad is walking handicapped due to a polio as kid;
>he can walk with aid of someone used to him, but has difficulties to move
>all different kinds of muscles. He can't lift his legs e.g. Now I thought
>might be the easieast to just pull him into a Cessna, but with the main
>gear where it is on Cessnas, it's just a pain. It was hard to believe for me,
>but pulling him over the wing of a Piper is *much* more easy.

From my (limited, but growing) experience with paraplegic
pilots, I have found ardent supporters of both high and
low wing airplanes among those who wish to transfer into
GA aircraft independently.  Interestingly, the Cessna
Cardinal RG is a top choice on the wish list of these 
pilots due to the lack of wing struts which would 
interfere with the transfer.

For those interested in the topic, International Wheelchair
Aviators offers a video for $10 which illustrates independent
transfers by disabled persons into both high and low
wing aircraft.

-- 
Richard Kaplan M.D.           Medical Software Exchange BBS
806 2nd St. SW # 104          (507) 281-1989 14,400 HST
Rochester, MN  55902          (507) 281-1689 Voice
PP-ASEL-IA     N4VRB          rkaplan@mayo.edu|netcom.netcom.com
From: petri@venus.iucf.indiana.edu (HOWARD PETRI)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Paul MacCready (Was: Soaring decisions...)
Date: 13 Sep 92 14:11:53 GMT
Article-I.D.: usenet.BuIsyx.74y
Reply-To: petri@venus.iucf.indiana.edu
Organization: INDIANA U. CYCLOTRON FACILITY, BLOOMINGTON, IN
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4

In article <rl.716305569@cgl.ucsf.edu>, rl@socrates.ucsf.edu (Robert Langridge) writes...
>In a recent posting on Paul MacCready and soaring I wrote:
> 
>>... He won, by a huge margin, at the 1953 International at St Yan, France

     By the way, does anyone out there know if MacCready is still flying
gliers? Perhaps some of our left coast contributors have some up to date
info about him. Is he pursuing any new projects?

Howard Petri
Pegasus N599JH
From: gopal@cirrus.com (Gopal Ramachandran)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Twin aircraft
Date: 15 Sep 92 21:33:17 GMT
Organization: Cirrus Logic Inc.

In article <1992Sep10.193250.1435@spdc.ti.com> serafin@epcot.spdc.ti.com (Mike Serafin) writes:
>
>Conventional twin 
>(engines rotating same)                  Counter-rotating twin
>
>
>      ^      ^                                ^    ^
>    ___ || ___                              ___ || ___
>     |  ||  |                                |  ||  |
>  ||||||||||||||                          ||||||||||||||
>        ||                                      ||
>        ||                                      ||
>        ||                                      ||
>      ||||||                                  ||||||
>
>

As strange as it may seem, there have also been counter-rotating twins
made with this configuration:

Examples are the Piper Aerostar 700P from the recent past, and the
Lockheed P-38 Lightning from WWII. And, yes, these were
purpose-designed to improve flying qualities.

    ^        ^
    ___ || ___
     |  ||  | 
  ||||||||||||||
        ||      
        ||      
        ||      
      ||||||    



Gopal
-- 

Gopal Ramachandran <gopal@cirrus.com>
UUCP:  uunet!cirrus.com!gopal
Cirrus Logic Inc, Fremont CA  PH: (510)-226-2138 FAX: (510)-226-2160
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: rl@socrates.ucsf.edu (Robert Langridge)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Paul MacCready (Was: Soaring decisions...)
Date: 12 Sep 92 13:46:09 GMT
Organization: UCSF Computer Graphics Lab

In a recent posting on Paul MacCready and soaring I wrote:

>... He won, by a huge margin, at the 1953 International at St Yan, France 
 				      ^^^^
Sorry, that should be 1956.  MacCready also won the Lilienthal Medal (the
highest soaring award of the FAI) that year "...for his remarkable flying 
with which he won the World Championship".  

MacCready was US soaring champion in 1953 (and also in 1948 and 1949).

Bob Langridge    		       Phone: +1 415 476-2630, -1540, -5128
Computer Graphics Laboratory		               FAX: +1 415 476-0688 
926 Medical Sciences
University of California	                    E-Mail: rl@cgl.ucsf.edu
San Francisco  CA  94143-0446
From: blh+@cs.cmu.edu (Bruce Horn)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Las Vegas->Chicago Race
Summary: Lancair IV wins @350+mph
Keywords: Lancair IV, homebuilts
Date: 4 Sep 92 21:00:37 GMT
Followup-To: rec.aviation
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon


I didn't see anybody post any results of the Las Vegas to Chicago air race,
so here's what I've heard:

The winner was Dave Morss in the Lancair IV at about 350 mph block-to-block.
One amusing tidbit is that, during the race, he passed the Citation carrying
the judges.

(I heard this from Rick McWilliams, a friend of mine who designed the new
laminar flow wing for the Lancair IV and the Lancair ES).

By the way, the Lancair ES, a fixed-gear version of the Lancair IV with a
bigger wing and smaller engine (I think a 200hp Continental, but I'm not
sure) is flying quite well.  It cruises well over 200mph at about 7gph, with
quite reasonable landing speeds (C172 class).  Kits should be under $35K.
I'm saving up for one. :-)

If anyone has any more information about the air race results, or the
Lancair ES, I'd be very interested.

-- 
Bruce Horn, Carnegie Mellon School of Computer Science
uucp: ...!seismo!cmucspt!cmu-cs!blh
ARPA: Bruce.Horn@cs.cmu.edu
From: ron@pilot.njin.net (Ron Natalie)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Renting woes...
Date: 14 Sep 92 15:11:57 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

> The last few times I've rented away from home, it's taken a single quick
> circuit around the pattern to convince the FBO that I'm OK.

Actually Geoff, while I'm sure you have many more hours than me (I
also lack Instrument, Commercial, and CFI ratings) my experiences
with away from home check outs is about the same as you are.

> Is a magic insurance company the answer?  I don't think so.  Even if
> you walk into an FBO with a copy of your high-hull-limit renter's
> insurance policy

I think you misunderstood what I was saying.  Someone had suggested a
nationwide "credentials" checking network.  My suggestion was that if
such a network of independent FBO's were going to be convinced to rent
planes based on "check-outs" given at other member FBO's, it would
probably take some common or cooperation of insurance companies to
do it.  You're correct, the liability is still pretty high unless
you're sure of the procedure used to check things out.  I still think
that it can be done and can be presented as a good thing for the FBO
to want to participate in.

> As has been suggested by other netters, one possibility, particularly for
> the lower-time pilot who can expect a thorough checkout at each new FBO,

No argument here.  That's also why I've joined a club that's got a
quite odd array of planes (172, Warrior, Arrow, 180).  I've got some
time to go between working on the Instrument Rating and learning to
fly these different planes until flight gets boring (if it even will
at that time).
From: alan@metasoft.UUCP (Alan Epstein)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Interstate Landing--Not such a good idea
Keywords: Emergency Landing Road Interstate
Date: 8 Sep 92 00:49:52 GMT
Organization: Meta Software Corporation, Cambridge MA


I, like many of us, had it drummed in early that if the engine quits and
no airfield is close by, head for the interstate. Well, driving in my
car recently I began noticing that the interstate these days does not
afford the uncluttered tarmac I learned to expect. In fact, here in
the Northeast, many interstates have unmarked power lines crossing them,
as well as full width road signs and bridges. During the day, these might
be manageable obstacles, but at night, forget it.

My primary training occurred 8 years ago. Did something happen recently?

-alan

-----------------------------
Alan Epstein
Meta Software Corp		 Internet:  alan@metasoft.com
Cambridge, MA 02140  USA	      IAP:  ILS 11 BED
-----------------------------
From: pressley@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Thomas A. Pressley)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Diamond Goal? (Soaring)
Keywords: Turnpoint photos
Date: 10 Sep 1992 03:37:37 GMT
Organization: UT Health Science Center Houston


     It's like one of those good news/bad news jokes.  Last weekend, a 
number of Soaring Club of Houston members went to Uvalde, Texas.  While
there, I completed a 300 km triangle in an SGS 1-34 to complete the
requirements for Diamond Goal.  That's the good news.  The bad news is
that despite handling instructions attached to the film container, the 
envelope, the film itself, and delivered verbally, the attendant who 
developed the turnpoint photos cut the negative.  Tomorrow I am asking
for a signed letter from the manager affirming the authenticity of the
cut negative, but it seems doubtful that the badge leg will be 
approved.  Although I still have the satisfaction of a challenging flight
successfully completed, the loss of vital documentation is a let-down.
     Don't let this happen to you.  Take the film to a 1-h processing
lab, as I did, but stand there until you have the uncut negative in your
hands, even if it means several hours!   
     (For those pilots who aren't enthusiasts of soaring, an uncut negative
depicting the turnpoints of a triangle is the proof that the distance was
flown as declared prior to the flight.)

Thomas A. Pressley                   pressley@girch1.med.uth.tmc.edu
Dept. of Physiology and Cell Biology
Univ. of Texas Medical School at Houston
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: ggr@koonda.acci.com.au (Greg Rose)
Subject: Re: More propping large engines
Organization: Australian Computing and Communications Institute
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 01:38:22 GMT

In article <122140241@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM> hale@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Bill Hale) writes:
>To all "you people" who would hand prop a 210...
>
>Have you ever checked the angle that a correctly installed 3-blade
>prop sits on when it's at the bottom of the compression stroke?  It's 
>such that maximum force needs to be applied as you pull down thru
>about 7:00.  

I hate to point this out :-), but if one of the blades in sitting too
low, the horizontal one on the other side will be just right after you
pull the prop through half a revolution. You can always find a
compression spot at any multiple of 60 degrees.
--
Greg Rose                 Australian Computing and Communications Institute
ggr@acci.com.au                                              +61 3 282 2532
"If you ever do that again, I'll cut you out of my will!"
		    -- Captain Ross to Co-pilot Gann, "Fate is the Hunter"
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: tel@cbnews.cb.att.com (thomas.e.lester)
Subject: Re: DEA .vs. Florida
Organization: AT&T
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 18:33:39 GMT

In article <BuBt61.F5q@vcd.hp.com> schinner@vcd.hp.com (Jim Schinnerer) writes:
>Mark Thompson (mark@xfbdev.megatek.com) wrote:
>: It seems to me that if the situation in Florida with respect to the
>: DEA is as bad as it seems to be from the thing that I have read, that
>: people should seriously consider JUST NOT GOING THERE. And telling the
>: local Chamber of Commerce why. I would think that if the state
>: officials were sufficiently riled up about it, they could convince
>: congress to rein these clowns in.
>
>While I hesitated at first to jump on the DEA slugfest wagon, I must say
>that I think this is a really bad idea.
>
>If there are no pleasure flights throught Florida, then, only drug
>smugglers would fly down there.  Thus, the DEA would have a great time
>messing with the few vacationing pilots that happen through.
>
>Perhaps we should all fly down there at once...
>
>I can't really believe that FL would miss the revenue of GA, either.

	I Can !    Especially after the hurricane. 
	If enough pilots wrote from different states and said they were 
	boycotting Florida by car and plane and encouraging others to
	do the same, I think it would get a LOT of attention.

	Especially if you notify the media . Local as well as Florida.

	Then we get the boaters to join in, and soon you have a  large
	movement to get something changed.

	Any owners or operators of rental fleets should say they are 
	prohibiting all flights of their aircraft to Florida.

	You need to realize that it isn't the number of people involved,
	its the amount of noise they make and how adamant they are about
	it.

	How about someone posting the name and address of the FLorida
	congressmen or  senators ???

	Thats the people that need to hear it.


-- 
	-----------------------------------------------------------------
	Tom Lester				att!cblph!tel
	Sonerai IIL (under TEST)		(614) 860-3259
	N4LX 					(614) 927-8106
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: ngupta@mtl.mit.edu (Nitin Gupta)
Subject: What's the deal with 727s at LGA?????
Organization: Massachvsetts Institvte of Technology
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 21:02:47 GMT


When I was at the US Open over the weekend, there were a LOT of 727s  
flying over from LGA. Being as old as they are, they produced a lot of  
noise, particularly on their initial climb out. The vast majority  
(probably 3/4) of the planes were 727s. When Airbus, 767s, 737s flew over,  
the noise was substantially less.

My question: why so many 727s? Is it because airlines don't want to phase  
in the 757 in their place right now due to lack of funds. I have read that  
the 757 is more efficient (not only in terms of fuel) than the 727. I  
suspect that funding is the case, since 727s are now out of production.

The players and fans weren't all that happy with the jet noise, but I  
didn't mind.  :-) :-) :-)      Just curious.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Nitin Gupta                       MIT Submicron Structures Laboratory
ngupta@mtl.mit.edu       NeXT Mail Encouraged            617 253 0721
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: masys@nlm.nih.gov (Dr. Daniel R. Masys)
Subject: Re: Bird in Engine Compartment
Organization: National Library of Medicine
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 12:26:47 GMT

In article <pkvs6vc@fido.asd.sgi.com> jeffg@loki.esd.sgi.com (Jeff C. Glover) writes:
>
>Anyone else find still-live birds post-flight? 

Flying the 182 from Bay Bridge airport up to Hagerstown for its annual
this year, I hear a scratching and banging noise from the tailcone.
(Well, I think, if the control cables are about to give up this is the
right time for it).  When the airplane was pulled into the hangar and
I took the tailcone off for inspection, out flew an exceptionally healthy
looking starling.  No nest inside--just came along for the ride.  Now,
the real question is if you are a starling who finds itself 60 miles 
from home, do you attempt to find your way back, or just make yourself
at home?  (The A&P pronounced it a class act; much better than finding
a nest which is quite ordinary :-) ).

Dan Masys
masys@nlm.nih.gov
From: rmiller@i88.isc.com (Richard J. Miller)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Hinckley sky diving loses a twin Beech
Keywords: nasty crash
Date: 8 Sep 92 15:37:55 GMT
Article-I.D.: i88.1992Sep08.153755.11500
Organization: INTERACTIVE Systems Corporation, Naperville, IL

Hinckley Sky Diving lost a twin Beech D-18 with 12 on board (11 divers,
one pilot, all killed) on September 7 (Labor Day holiday in the US)

news reports including an interview with a witness makes it look like he
lost the left engine between 300 and 900 feet after takeoff, was able
to line up for a landing in a bean field, but then got too slow on the
approach and cartwheeled. then it burned. they never got high enough
to use the chutes. newspaper and TV pictures show the aircraft in a
vertical position, but the witnesses have indicated that he was in a
landing attitude before impact, but was slow.

the airplane had passed a "ramp check" last month and the pilot had 26
years of piloting jump planes. there does not appear to be any
irregularities in maintenance, weight, CG, emergency procedures, or
pilot experience.

Hinckley is about 50 miles west of Chicago and has active sky diving and
glider operations. more when i find out ...

Rich Miller
rmiller@i88.isc.com
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: lhe@sics.se (Lars-Henrik Eriksson)
Subject: Re: How do automatic landings work?
Reply-To: lhe@sics.se (Lars-Henrik Eriksson)
Organization: SICS, Kista (Stockholm), Sweden
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 18:20:04 GMT

In article <1992Sep4.203532.5706@access.usask.ca>, choy@skorpio writes:
>How does the mechanism for automatic landings work? What information
>is sent to the plane from the airport?

There is no special information send from the airport. An ordinary ILS
is used. Ordinary in functional terms that is. This signal quality
must meed category III standards and there must be instant backup
transmitters.

Everything works as usual down to the flare. Then the autopilot uses
radio altitude for altitude guidance rather than the glideslope. With
a CAT IIIa ILS, the pilot handles the rollout. With a CAT IIIb ILS the
autopilot can do the rollout using the ILS localiser.

CAT IIIc, which permits landing in absolutely zero visibility,
includes some kind of electronic taxi guidance. I don't know how this
works (or if it is even implemented anywhere).
-- 
-- 
Lars-Henrik Eriksson                            Internet: lhe@sics.se
Swedish Institute of Computer Science           Phone (intn'l): +46 8 752 15 09
Box 1263                                        Telefon (nat'l): 08 - 752 15 09
S-164 28  KISTA, SWEDEN                         Fax: +46 8 751 72 30
Newsgroups: rec.aviation,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games