HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Ross Ridge <ross@zooid.guild.org>
Subject: Re: Interesting facts about bicycles in Ontario (from MoT)
Organization: ZOOiD BBS
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 01:04:51 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.002908.5954@samba.oit.unc.edu>
>There are more than 3 million bicycles and 2 million cyclists in Ontario.

evan@telly.on.ca (Evan Leibovitch) writes:
>...not one of which must be checked for roadworthiness at any time.

Why should they be?  Unlike cars, a poorly maintained bike doesn't
result in more polution.  Unlike cars, bikes don't kill, mutalate
and injure thousands of people every year.  

>>6% of Ontarians (460,000) over the age of 15 use bicycles for primary
>>transportation.
>
>Not one of whom is tested for knowing the rules of the road on a bicycle,
>or knowing the safe way to drive on a road which also has cars on it.

Again why should they be?  An unlicenced cyclist is less of a danger
to society than a licenced motorist.  

>>Safety equipment (e.g. lights, brakes and horns) and operating procedures
>>for bicycles are mandated by legislation.
>
>...such legistlation being rarely heeded and never enforced...

For cars too...

>>Studies indicate that bicycle helmets can reduce cycle related fatalities
>>by 75% and head injuries by 85%.
>
>A little knowledge of the rules of the HTA, required as a requisite for
>driving bicycles on major roads, wouldn't hurt either.

An even better idea would be to improve testing procedures for motor
vehicle licencing, it's clear too many motorists ingore the HTA making
Canadian roads just about the most dangerous in the world.

>>In a number of large Ontario municipalities, police on bicycles are active
>>as a means of community law enforcement.
>
>Do they enforce the improper use of bicycles? How many tickets were
>issued last year for cyclists riding in pedestrian-only walkways, or for
>failing to drive in the marked lane of a regular roadway, or for failing
>to have working safety equipment?

How many tickets did you personally fail to receive for speeding?
One driver going 120km/h on the 401 is more dangerous than legions
of cyclists riding on the sidewalk.  You're just blowing a lot of
smoke here, bicycles don't cause anywhere near the problems that
cars do. 

>>The bicycle industry and related tourist activities contribute more than
>>$150 million a year to the Ontario economy.
>
>Which would be spent elsewhere in the economy if it wasn't spent here. Yawn.

Not true at all.

>>In the audience for the press conference were two Metro Toronto Police
>>officers from the bicycle squad, complete with bicycle shorts, night-stick
>>and gun.
>
>How quaint. At least bicycles don't shit on the road like horses do.

At least bikes don't shit in atmosphere like cars do.

							Ross Ridge

-- 
Ross Ridge - The Great HTMU					     l/	 //
								    [OO][oo]
ross@zooid.guild.org						    /()\/()/
uunet.ca!zooid!ross						     db	 //
From: vid@zooid.guild.org (David Mason)
Newsgroups: ont.general
Subject: Text to Speech software for the blinda
Date: 20 Jul 92 19:31:58 GMT

I'm looking for some information on text to speech software/hardware
combinations for IBM PC compatible computers. I called the Canadian National
Institute for the Blind and they were able to refer me to three helpful
dealers (this is for someone in Kenya so this isn't a potential sale for them,
and I told them this right away, but they were still helpful). But I found out
that there is no such thing as any comparison between all the various types
and brands of text to speech systems. 

I found out that the half decent systems (Apollo, Accent, JAWS, Artic, VERT-
these are hardware or software, you need both) cost about $1000 - $2000 for a
good combination (clear English words, not too robotic sounding, etc). But
before I make any recomendations I could use people's opinions and especially
that comparison. If a comparison doesn't exist I certainly would suggest that
it would be a worthwhile volunteer activity. I imagine that a couple of
computer knowledgeable people and some blind "taste testers" (literally!)
could benefit a lot of people by drawing up a good comparison.  

I'm willing to volunteer as one of the computer knowledgeables, if anyone is
interested. I didn't ask the dealers about this but apparently CNIB has some
of the systmes lying around and other dealers/manufacturers could probably be
coerced into loaning equipment for the purposes of this test.

Anyways any information people can send me is helpful. I have a fax if
required.
Xref: sparky ont.general:1310 can.general:3644 soc.culture.canada:5390 ott.general:598
From: paul@sco.COM (Paul Jackson)
Newsgroups: ont.general,can.general,soc.culture.canada,ott.general
Subject: Re: Interesting facts about bicycles in Ontario (from MoT)
Date: 29 Jul 92 15:12:36 GMT
Organization: SCO Canada, Inc.

In article <2A754DBB.3A7B@telly.on.ca> evan@telly.on.ca (Evan Leibovitch) writes:
>In article <1992Jul28.010451.911@zooid.guild.org>
>>Unlike cars, bikes don't kill, mutalate and injure thousands of people
>>every year.  
>Then why the push for helmets? The only reason bike don't injure as many
>as cars is because there are fewer bikes on the major roads.

Evan, if you actually believe that your above statement is true then I'd
SERIOUSLY suggest that you get professional help as you are completely out
of tune with reality. Cars injure many more people than bikes even when
numbers on the road are compared. Some of the reasons :
a) They go just a little bit faster
b) People use them more often for longer periods
c) They are just a touch less controlable
d) They are more prone to catastrophic failure modes.

>Or are you really suggesting that there are no bad cyclists?

Clearly there are bad cyclists. Are you suggesting that licenses means there
are no bad drivers? Are you suggesting that most bad cyclists don't have
licenses? Do you have any evidence at all that requiring licenses will
reduce the number of bad cyclists?

Actually, I'd have no problem at all if cyclists were treated more like
drivers as long as it extended both ways, bicycles were also treated more
like cars. There should be some extra freedom given to bikes, however, due
to the different physical characterstics (eg, coming to a rolling stop is
quite safe for a bike and a hell of an energy saving).

>>One driver going 120km/h on the 401 is more dangerous than legions
>>of cyclists riding on the sidewalk.
>
>Proof, please. This is a myth.

How many fatalities of non cyclists have bikes caused in the last year? 

>>You're just blowing a lot of
>>smoke here, bicycles don't cause anywhere near the problems that
>>cars do. 
>
>Which of course excuses the problems that bikes cause.

No, not really. However, if bikes cause LESS problems than cars, wouldn't we
be better off if more people cycled (car related problems decrease, bike
related problems increase, but on net the total number of problems decrease).
Newsgroups: ont.general
From: ricegm@ecf.toronto.edu (George Matthew Rice)
Subject: Police on Horseback
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 14:04:40 GMT

Why do the police ride on horses in the middle of, say, Toronto.
First it is probably not very enjoyable for the horse and second,
who cleans up the crap.

Matthew

Newsgroups: ont.general,can.general,soc.culture.canada,ott.general
From: burke@seachg.uucp (Michael Burke)
Subject: Re: Interesting facts about bicycles in Ontario (from MoT)
Reply-To: burke@seachg.UUCP (Michael Burke)
Organization: Sea Change Corporation, Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 17:12:44 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.010451.911@zooid.guild.org> Ross Ridge <ross@zooid.guild.org> writes:
>In article <1992Jul24.002908.5954@samba.oit.unc.edu>
>>There are more than 3 million bicycles and 2 million cyclists in Ontario.
>
>evan@telly.on.ca (Evan Leibovitch) writes:
>>...not one of which must be checked for roadworthiness at any time.
>uunet.ca!zooid!ross						     db	 //

All of this dialog is interesting. But perhaps we can sum up by saying:

	If bicycles are toys - they should be treated as toys (and not
	   allowed to be used in dangerous situations. A parent would be
	   misguided to allow a child to "play on the road" but the same
	   parent seems to bevieve that it is ok for the same child to
	   "play bicycle" on the road.

	If bicycles are not toys (ie working vehicles) - they should be
	   treated in the same way as any other "working vehicle" such as
	   cars, trucks, mopeds, motorcycles, farm vehicles, construction
	   vehicles and the rest.

A careless operator of any vehicle is dangerous. People do get run over by
bicycles on park paths. A bicycle on a road that meanders into the path of
a car (not at all the car driver's fault) will cause his/her own body harm
or someone elses because the car driver's reaction is to avoid the bicycle
and potentially hit something else.

In the case of bicycles, unfortunately the process of "teaching someone how
to ride" is about keeping one's balance on a bicycle and is not "teaching 
someone how to operate a bicycle" which is about safety, rules and commonsense.

My $.02, anyway.
-- 
---
Michael Burke

Sea Change Corporation
6695 Millcreek Drive, Unit 8 
Mississauga, Ontario, Canada L5N 5R8
Tel: 416-542-9484  Fax: 416-542-9479
UUCP: ...!uunet!uunet.ca!seachg!burke
Newsgroups: ont.general
From: simon.s.huang@hydro.on.ca ()
Subject: 8th Annual 4-troke and Scale Rally
Organization: Ontario Hydro
Distribution: ont
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 15:45:08 GMT

The Radio Control Flying Club of Toronto is hosting the 8th Annual
4-Stroke and Scale Rally Aug 15-16 1992. 
Location:

Miliken Park ( Macowan and Steeles) 


 
Newsgroups: york.general,ont.general
From: davecb@nexus.yorku.ca (David Collier-Brown)
Subject: Anyone got a PC case and power supply for sale?
Organization: York University
Distribution: can
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 14:28:04 GMT

  I'm looking for a box to put a pair of full-height 5 1/4" drives into,
with enough power to spin them and maybe a tape-drive later.  My
hardware-techie friends suggest something like 200w to spin a tape...
probably less to spin two drives.
  So I'm looking for an old PC case with power supply, preferably
used.

--dave
-- 
David Collier-Brown,  | davecb@Nexus.YorkU.CA | lethe!dave
72 Abitibi Ave.,      | 
Willowdale, Ontario,  | Stupidity is evil waiting to happen.
CANADA. 416-223-8968  |               -- Clay Bond
From: "steve hartwell" <steve.hartwell@canrem.com>
Newsgroups: ont.general
Subject: house apartments 2
Date: 23 Jul 92 22:22:32 EST
Reply-To: "steve hartwell" <steve.hartwell@canrem.com>
Distribution: ont
Organization: Canada Remote Systems


     What we mean by "an apartment in a house"

     When we talk about "an apartments in a house" we mean second
     homes created in existing or new houses.  The installation
     of such apartments results in residential structures
     containing two units, instead of just one.  The apartment
     can be in the basement of a house, or anywhere else on the
     premises.  This type of apartment can also be created when a
     larger house is divided into two (for example, with one unit
     on the ground floor and one on the second floor), or through
     adding to a house.

     Apartments in houses are sometimes called "accessory
     apartments", "second units", or "basement apartments".

     Why apartments in houses are needed

     Apartments in houses are supported by the government because
     they:

     . are a source of affordable housing for people who need
       it, and at no or little cost to the taxpayers;

     . can ease the financial burden of home ownership by
       providing an additional source of income;

     . mean jobs for people in the renovation and building
       supply business;

     . are environmentally friendly because they use existing
       housing better and support public services and systems,
       such as transit, instead of contributing to urban sprawl;

     . support neighbourhood diversity and smaller scale
       development in keeping with the scale and character of
       existing communities.

     Because apartments in houses are desirable, policies
     encouraging municipalities to permit them have been in place
     for some time.  With the 1989 Land Use Planning for Housing
     Policy Statement, the Ontario government indicated that
     municipalities are to allow apartments in houses (referred
     to in the statement as "accessory apartments") to be located
     in residential areas.

     The Housing Policy Statement also asked municipalities to
     eliminate excessive zoning standards that prevent apartments
     from being created in people's houses.

     Unfortunately, so far, few municipalities have implemented
     the provisions for apartments in houses that are in the
     Housing Policy Statement.  Since apartments in houses have
     many advantages, the time has come to take further action in
     this area.


---
  ACCESS/MAIL 1.00 #0274  CANBUILD - THE Construction Conference
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario/Detroit, MI
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
From: "steve hartwell" <steve.hartwell@canrem.com>
Newsgroups: ont.general
Subject: public transit
Date: 29 Jul 92 12:57:56 EST
Reply-To: "steve hartwell" <steve.hartwell@canrem.com>
Distribution: ont
Organization: Canada Remote Systems



 There's been a lot of talk about bicycles, so, I would assume that a
 lot of you are environmentally concerned people. Very noble.

 I would have expected that you would have a lot to say on the
 Proposed Draft Legislation to legalize House Apartments in Ontario.

 Particularly ( if not anything else ) your concerns that it might
 result in heavier car traffic as a result of having more people
 living in your communities in house apartments.

 Comments anyone ? anyone at all will do.

 Negative comments against the legislation are welcome.



---
  ACCESS/MAIL 1.00 #0274  Who can say what's around the corner?
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario/Detroit, MI
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: ont.general,kw.general,ont.forsale
From: dbshapco@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Brad Shapcott)
Subject: Re: Puppy Wanted
Organization: University of Waterloo
Distribution: ont
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 21:13:35 GMT

In article <Bs7xrq.7vz@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca> kzumy@watnow.uwaterloo.ca (Kazuo Uezumi) writes:
>	
>
>	Hi, dear netters,
>
>		
>		After struggling with myself for a while, I have decided
>	to get a puppy. Preferrably miniature pinscher or boston terrier.
>	I've checked out one of the local pet store, but they don't carry
>	these two and they asked a lot of money for these two as well.
>	I love dogs, I will really appreciate if anyone can tell me where
>	to get a good deal. Thanks in advance!!
>
>	Paul

Never buy from a pet store.  Too often they are the 'fronts' for inhumane
pet factories.

Pick up a paper and look under PETS for a dog breeder.  They are cheaper,
better informed, and interested in the animal's welfare rather than just
a quick buck.


Brad
Newsgroups: ont.general,kw.general,ont.forsale
From: kzumy@watnow.uwaterloo.ca (Kazuo Uezumi)
Subject: Puppy Wanted
Originator: kzumy@watnow.waterloo.edu
Organization: University of Waterloo
Distribution: ont
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 20:19:02 GMT

	

	Hi, dear netters,

		
		After struggling with myself for a while, I have decided
	to get a puppy. Preferrably miniature pinscher or boston terrier.
	I've checked out one of the local pet store, but they don't carry
	these two and they asked a lot of money for these two as well.
	I love dogs, I will really appreciate if anyone can tell me where
	to get a good deal. Thanks in advance!!

	Paul

Newsgroups: ont.general,kw.general,ont.forsale
From: awilliam@qucis.queensu.ca (Majik)
Subject: Re: Puppy Wanted
Organization: Computing & Information Science, Queen's University at Kingston
Distribution: ont
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 12:52:04 GMT

In article <Bs7xrq.7vz@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca> kzumy@watnow.uwaterloo.ca (Kazuo Uezumi) writes:
>	
>
>	Hi, dear netters,
>
>		
>		After struggling with myself for a while, I have decided
>	to get a puppy. Preferrably miniature pinscher or boston terrier.
>	I've checked out one of the local pet store, but they don't carry
>	these two and they asked a lot of money for these two as well.
>	I love dogs, I will really appreciate if anyone can tell me where
>	to get a good deal. Thanks in advance!!
>
>	Paul
  
  Since you are looking for a particular dog, you should get in touch with
your local Kennel (sp?) club. They are bound to have lists of breeders for 
any type of dog you want. You can then contact them and find out about 
expected litters etc.  Don't forget to visit your library to read about 
the type of dog you want. You can find out about this TYPE of dog's temperament,
is it a family dog or will it tend to one owner, good with children, common
physiological problems, are they chewers?(Beagles).  PLEASE be sure about 
the dog before you get it. (I know some people who got a Beagle and don't 
know what to do with it because it chews so much... sad really)


Andrew Williams

Note: These are my opinions.. NOT YOURS.. but you can borrow them if you want.

-- 
| This message brought to you by the Amalgamated Union of Philosophers, |
| Luminaries, and other professional thinking persons.                  | 
|              ( awilliam@qucis.queensu.ca )                            | 
Xref: sparky ont.general:1349 can.general:3703 soc.culture.canada:5434 ott.general:621
From: kim@Software.Mitel.COM (Kim Letkeman)
Newsgroups: ont.general,can.general,soc.culture.canada,ott.general
Subject: Re: Interesting facts about bicycles in Ontario (from MoT)
Date: 31 Jul 92 12:46:18 GMT
	<KIM.92Jul29083734@kim.Software.Mitel.COM>
	<1992Jul30.221452.16900@zooid.guild.org>
Organization: MITEL Public Switching, Kanata, Ontario, Canada
In-reply-to: ross@zooid.guild.org's message of 30 Jul 92 22:14:52 GMT

In article <1992Jul30.221452.16900@zooid.guild.org> ross@zooid.guild.org (Ross Ridge) writes:

| kim@Software.Mitel.COM (Kim Letkeman) writes:
| >The 401 is designed for high volume traffic going at high speeds. It
| >can easily carry hundreds or thousands of vehicles per hour at 120kmh
| >without posing any significant risk to the motorists. It does this
| >every day.
| 
| Sorry but there are serious accidents on the 401 every day, accidents
| made much more deadlier when the drivers are speeding.

Well Ross, your original statement suggested that a single car going
120kmh on the 401 is more dangerous than legions of cyclists on the
sidewalks. I suggested that the 401 is designed for high speed travel
of cars and it is. The fact that there are accidents is a simple fact
of life. There are always accidents around large machinery because
people make mistakes now and again and nothing will ever change that.

But to get back to your original point (which you did not reference in
your response), I still believe that human error would create far more
accidents if legions of cyclists used sidewalks every day.  Sidewalks
are simply not designed for cyclists in most places and they are
certainly not designed for mixed traffic anywhere (so-called
bike-paths excepted.)

Also, people are not practiced or conditioned to avoid collisions with
bicycles while walking on sidewalks, whereas those who go a bit faster
than the limit on the 401 practice every day. This does not excuse
speeding, and I am not advocating it as a way of life, but relatively
speaking, I would rather take my chances with dozens of cars at 120 on
the Queensway every day than dodge dozens of cyclists on the sidewalk
every day. It's just a lot safer.

Of course, there are people who tail-gate at 120kmh, which is
extremely dangerous, but these are the same personalities that think
it's ok to go zooming along a sidewalk that's used by pedestrians.
I.e. - morons.
--
Kim Letkeman	kim@Software.Mitel.COM
Newsgroups: ont.general
From: jstewart@alfred.carleton.ca (John Stewart)
Subject: Re: Bicycle helmets (was Re: Ontario government ...)
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 20:22:41 GMT

In <1992Jul28.162826.21340@fozzi.ocunix.on.ca> marc@fozzi.ocunix.on.ca (Marc Donovan) writes:
>  I wonder - would all the people who are against mandatory helments for bikes
>also be against mandatory helments for motorcycles?   I heard exactly
>the same arguments against motorbike helmets as I'm hearing now against
>bicycle helmets.  (too hot, too uncomfortable, looks funny, it's not that
>dangerous if I'm just going to the corner, not dangerous in the country,
>govmn't doesn't have the right, blahblahblah)
>  Although the bicycle goes somewhat slower, it has the same pitfalls and
>dangers as a motorbike, and in some cases can even be MORE dangerous. 
>(bicycles are not as stable as motorbikes; many bicycle riders attach 
>their feet to the pedals with traps, making it hard to catch
>yourself; most cyclists don't wear as much padding to catch themselves as
>motorbike riders do, etc...)
>  Instead of venting off about "loss of civil liberties", how about the
>following:  all those vehemently against mandatory helmets please pay
>ALL your own medical bills if you suffer any head injuries.  Any volunteers?

This seems to be a popular philosophy today -- everything should be done
to maximize our lifespan which means that any activity that could cause
premature death should be strongly discouraged or banned.

I prefer to maximize my enjoyment of life.  I fully intend to continue
eating foods that are loaded with saturated fat, going on wilderness canoe
trips, going outside without a layer of SPF 30 lotion and occasionally
cycling without a helmet if I forget to put it on or simply don't feel
like wearing it.
-- 
John Stewart -- Computing and Communications Services, Carleton University
Internet: jstewart@ccs.carleton.ca or Mr.Canoehead@algonquin.carleton.ca  
"Why can't we just forget about our constitutional problems and go canoeing?"
From: marc@fozzi.ocunix.on.ca (Marc Donovan)
Newsgroups: ont.general
Subject: Re: Bicycle helmets (was Re: Ontario government ...)
Date: 28 Jul 92 16:28:26 GMT
Organization: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada


>I have a light and well-vented bicycle helmet, but on hot and windless days,
>it really heats my head up fast.  I've read in magazines some studies showing
>
>Wearing a helmet should only be mandatory when riding on the road.  There
>are no safety problems when people are just taking a leisurely ride in the
>park or a short trip to the corner store.
>
>Besides, a helmet law will only result in police officers harrassing    
>helmetless riders.  They must have more important things to do, don't they?

  I wonder - would all the people who are against mandatory helments for bikes
also be against mandatory helments for motorcycles?   I heard exactly
the same arguments against motorbike helmets as I'm hearing now against
bicycle helmets.  (too hot, too uncomfortable, looks funny, it's not that
dangerous if I'm just going to the corner, not dangerous in the country,
govmn't doesn't have the right, blahblahblah)
  Although the bicycle goes somewhat slower, it has the same pitfalls and
dangers as a motorbike, and in some cases can even be MORE dangerous. 
(bicycles are not as stable as motorbikes; many bicycle riders attach 
their feet to the pedals with traps, making it hard to catch
yourself; most cyclists don't wear as much padding to catch themselves as
motorbike riders do, etc...)
  Instead of venting off about "loss of civil liberties", how about the
following:  all those vehemently against mandatory helmets please pay
ALL your own medical bills if you suffer any head injuries.  Any volunteers?

Thanks, but I'll wear my helment, and I would appreciate something that
reduces the costs of hospitalizing those who don't have a sense of self-
preservation.  It's my taxes too!

<marc>
Newsgroups: ont.general,ott.general