From: eric@j30264293.reslife.cornell.edu (Eric L. Beyer)
Subject: Re: TCP/IP access on packet radio...
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Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 20:27:08 GMT

In article <1992Dec14.175848.16418@gecko.uucp> lanzo@tekelec.com (Mark Lanzo) writes:
> In article <1992Dec13.062842.16886@mail.cornell.edu> eric@j30264293.reslife.cornell.edu (Eric L. Beyer) writes:
> >-- 
> >  One last round of stupid questions for now --
> >
> >   1) Once I have an IP assigned, are there any fees associated with
> >      accessing the SLIP link?
> >
> >   2) Is it considered rude to be on that SLIP link for great lengths of
> >      time (an hour or so), which is average for IRC/Usenet (for me,
> >      anyway)?
> >
> >   3) Are there any restrictions on the kinds of services I can use with
> >      that link (other than the usage restrictions inherent in using
> >      packet at all)?
> 
> I may have missed something here (like something discussing this SLIP
> link).   If you are accessing a private link of someone else (a landline
> or somesuch), then that's between you and them (and maybe the FCC).
> 
> TCP/IP is just a protocol.  The fact that you are running TCP/IP does
> not mean you are accessing any link, tapping into the Internet, Arpanet,
> Usenet, etc.  If you run TCP/IP, then you'll be able to establish TCP 
> based connections to other stations in your area which also are running
> TCP.  Nothing else is implied.  TCP/IP just adds layers on top of the
> raw AX.25 connection, to do things like error detection & correction,
> routing, assembling individual packets into sequenced streams, etc.
> 

   Ok -- I was assuming TCP/IP meant Internet access.  Got it now.

> It is possible that some station in the area has a connection to some 
> other "network" such as the internet or Usenet or Fidonet or whatever,
> and that you may be able to use this other station as a gateway into
> that other network using your packet station; however, this isn't
> directly related to your use of TCP/IP (you could probably use straight
> AX.25 connection to this hypothetical other station and still get
> the same gateway access).  If you are running TCP/IP, and you are
> connecting to another TCP/IP packet station and that station has
> other links [besides the Amateur packet links], then it is possible 
> that you have effectively become part of that other network, depending
> upon what interconnections that station allows.  It is possible that 
> there won't be such a gateway station in your area, so the only
> thing you'll gain by running TCP/IP is "improved" connectivity
> between yourself and other stations running TCP/IP, with tools like
> "telnet" or "ftp" (applications which use the TCP/IP transport
> mechanisms).  The TCP/IP software you use (such as NOS) will undoubtedly
> do e-mail too; probably using SMTP (Simple Mail Transfer Protocol)
> sitting on top of the TCP/IP layer again.
> 

   The principle seems similar to SLIP - SLIP connections are made by
phoning a system that is on the Internet, at which point you are assigned
an IP address and are effectively on Internet.  That's kind of what I'd
like to do with packet.

> The problem here is that there are rigid definitions for a lot
> of these and related things -- TCP, IP, Internet, physical layer,
> transport layer, SMTP, etc. -- but we often tend to lump a lot
> of these things together using a term like "TCP/IP" as a generic
> for a lot of things which we tend to associate together but
> which are in fact not.  This can be particularly confusing for
> someone who hears a term like "TCP/IP" and gets the impression
> that this implies the Internet, Usenet, or somesuch.
> 
> Well, I hope this clarifies things a little bit.  I realize that
> I have been a bit long-winded here and hope I wasn't explaining
> the obvious.  I also hope that I have not said anything which is
> too far off base -- I am definitely not an expert in such matters
> and don't proclaim to be ... so take my statements with a grain of 
> salt.
> 
>           73  --Mark Lanzo-- KD4QLZ
>           lanzo@tekelec.com
> 

   I think I got it now.. maybe.. I think....

  Eric L. Beyer
  Proud owner of his rusty A500
  Paper pusher of Solaris Devlopment Group
  (elb1@cornell.edu)