HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mcmanus@pell.anu.edu.au (Aine McManus)
Subject: Re: Sheela-na-gig
Organization: Australian National University
Date: 13 Sep 92 16:55:00


In article <12SEP92.18265101@enh.nist.gov> downey@enh.nist.gov writes:
 
 	<excerpt from book, lots deleted>

	> Her name means "hag";
	
It does? I always believed it came from "Si/le na gci/och", meaning
Sheila of/with the breasts.

	> She is the greatest symbol of the life-and-death goddess
	> left in Ireland, where her stones have in some cases been
	> incporporated as "gargoyles" in Christian churches.  
 
I thought ("recieved wisdom": no sources except a bookshop in Galway
called Sheila-na-Gig ) sheila-na-gigs were almost always found on
churches, and were believed to scare away evil spirits. As far as I
know, it isn't even certain if they're pre- or post-Christian.
		,
		Aine
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: sloubtin@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Sylvain Louboutin)
Subject: Re: Celtic languages (was: Re: FYI - Politics in NI)
Organization: DSG, Dept. of Computer Science, Trinity College Dublin
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 13:17:05 GMT

In <1992Sep4.170332.8773@rdg.dec.com> cockburn@edieng.enet.dec.com (Craig Cockburn) writes:

>From what I can remember, the list is:
>Insular Celtic 
>P-Celtic: Welsh, Breton, Cornish, Cumbric(extinct)
>Q-Celtic: Scots Gaelic, Irish Gaelic, Manx
>Non Insular Celtic (all extinct)
>Gaulish (France)
>Galatian (Spain)
>I think there was another in the middle east

Breton as an ``insular'' celtic language?  just wondering...


-- 
//Sylvain R.Y. Louboutin, fax: (+353-1)772204, e-mail: Louboutin@dsg.cs.tcd.ie
//Distributed System Group, O'Reilly Institute, room F.35, (+353-1)7021539 ...
//Department of Computer Science, Trinity College, Dublin 2, -Ireland-  ASK-18
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: esharp@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Edwin Sharp)
Subject: Name
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Distribution: all
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 20:37:32 GMT

I have been wondering what my name (Edwin) means.  I think it might have a celtic origin as it was an Edwin ( this is from an official looking city brouchure I got when I was there) who founded Edinburgh.  Any help would be great!  
Edwin Sharp
Esharp@sage.cc.purdue.edu

Organization: Studio for Creative Inquiry, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 09:54:49 -0400 
From: Rebecca Roolf <rr3b+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Gaelic && The Celtic Society
	<1992Sep11.060117.13395@rdg.dec.com>

On 11-Sep-92 in Re: Gaelic && The Celtic So..
user Craig Cockburn@edieng.en writes:
>In article <athos-100992092917@athos.apple.com>, athos@apple.com (Rick
Eames) w
>rites...
>>I am looking for information on the Celtic Society.
>> 
>I've never heard about this society - do you mean the Celtic league?

The Celtic Society is apparently not very active in the UK, Craig, or so
a friend who lives in Scotland tells me.  However, I think they do
exist, albet in a different form than here in the US.  Perhaps partly
because of animosity between Celtic nations.

In the US, the Celtic Society is a pan-Celtic society: they try to
present the different Celtic languages equally, and have a committee
with representatives for each of the Celtic nations/languages (those
being the six generally included: Irish, Scottish, Manx, Cornish,
Breton, Welsh).

Anyhow, I don't know about chapters in the Bay area, but this is their
general address in the US.

The Celtic League, American Branch
PO Box 20153
Dag Hammarskjold Postal Center
New York, NY 10017

The Celtic League also puts out each year a "Celtic Calendar," which
runs from November (Samhain) to October, in the tradition of the Celtic
year.  The calendar features drawings of Celtic myths (they might
publish my art next year!! :-), sayings in each of the six languages,
and a day-by-day listing of important events in Celtic history.  

September, for example, is all in Cornish, and their is a drawing of the
Harpers of Cai/nbile turning themselves into deer to escape Queen Mebh's
raid of Ulster.   Today, 9/11, it lists: "1297- Victory of Wallace at
Stirling bridge, Scotland.  and 1649 - Massacre at Drogheda, Ireland, by
Cromwell."  

I recommend it as a calendar, and it supports a good organization.  The
1993 calendar is now available, and the price and address for orders
follows.  All prices are in US dollars:

US $7.00 (but I bought mine for $6.00 from a vendor, I think the extra
buck is for postage)
Canada $8.50
Celtic Nations $9.00
Elsewhere $10.00

Celtic Calendar
2973 Valentine Avenue
Bronx, NY 10458

There is also an address for a Guide to Learning the Celtic Languages in
North America.  Write to the general address (the PO Box one).  $5. 
Intro info on each language, textbooks, course listings, etc.

Becka

Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: walker@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Graham Walker, 227 West Old Main,268-3847,)
Subject: Re: Celtic languages (was: Re: FYI - Politics in NI)
Organization: Clarkson University
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 20:03:29 GMT

From article <1992Sep4.170332.8773@rdg.dec.com>, by cockburn@edieng.enet.dec.com (Craig Cockburn):
> 
> You missed out Pictish from the list. I think there's two theories with
> this one, one that it was a branch of P-Celtic, the other that it was
> non Indo-European. That was the language which gave rise to "Skye" "Mull" etc.
> 
The latest book that I have read on the Picts comes down on the side
that favours the theory that they were "P-celts".

														GW
From: alisonjw@spider.co.uk (Alison J Wyld)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Scots or Picts (was Celtic alchoholism?)
Date: 10 Sep 92 16:40:21 GMT
Organization: Spider Systems Limited, Edinburgh, UK.

In article <1992Sep10.154911.16900@news.clarkson.edu> walker@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Graham Walker, 227 West Old Main,268-3847,) writes:
>From article <1992Sep10.033849.13907@cos.com>, by cooper@cos.com (Gary Cooper):
>> In <92239.193651ATDYW@ASUACAD.BITNET> Dan Wilson <ATDYW@ASUACAD.BITNET> writes:
>> 
>>>Wasn't Robert de Brus' mother a Celt? I seem to recall he relied heavily on
>>>his Celtic blood to gain the confidence of the Highland Chiefs that he
>>>needed so deperately.
>> 
>> Yes she was - and since, I believe, the Celts were a somewhat
>> matriarchal society, shouldn't the census check through the
>> mother through about 250 generations? :>  
>> -- 
>> gary cooper (not the dead one)     "Non Dignis Sum!" - Waynus and Gartus 
>
>As I read it the Picts were definately used a matrilinear system of
>inheritance and may have been a matriarchal society (probably they were
>neither very patriarchal or matriarchal). The celts tended to be a more
>partriarchal society. This topic is well discussed in the book called
>"Women of the Celts" by Jean Markel (sp?); that is Jean as in John).
>
>															GW
The New Edinburgh History of Scotland Vol. 1. "Warlords and Holymen"
argues that the Picts were Celts, who just picked up a different name
at some stage.  It also argues quite convincingly against matrilinear
succession.  You should probably check this out for balance.

Bye

Alison
From: edch14@castle.ed.ac.uk (R V P Flood)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: What is Ireland's national anthem? Is there one?
Date: 8 Sep 92 11:31:04 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

oconnell@vms.macc.wisc.edu (Kevin Patrick O'Connell) writes:

>How about it?   Is there a memorable recording of it?  Is it popular 
>among Irish citizens (not as a chart topper, but is it well thought 
>of)?  

>Kevin

>PS--thanks to all who wrote about subscriptions to the Irish times!
>It seems rather pricey right now, but I will start reading it at the
>UW library and see how I like it.

The Irish National Anthem translates into English as "The Soldiers
Song". It was pened by a Dublin man named Peadar Carney in the early
part of this century. I believe that he was the maternal grandfater of
Brendan and Dominic Behan and was the start of a long musical tradition
in that family that continues to to-day.

The purists say that the music was based on a German folk song and gripe
about it from time to time. Personally that dosen't bother me as the
French National Anthem sounds suspiciously like the 1812 overture !!!!!
Most people in Ireland seem to like it (ie. they seldom complain about
it) and have been known to sing a few bars of it at the end of dances
and ceile's.

The RTE concert orchestra or the Army No. 1 band usually give a reliable
rendition of but whether either have ever committed it to vinyl (OK so I
am old fashioned!) I couldn't tell you.

Rob......
From: nickh@CS.CMU.EDU (Nick Haines)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Mona (was Re: Eagles Reaches Church of Asatru
Date: 8 Sep 92 16:00:16 GMT
Article-I.D.: VOILA.NICKH.92Sep8110016
	<1992Sep7.091337.13949@cbnewsi.cb.att.com>
	<1992Sep7.183644.28930@news.nd.edu>
	<CC.92Sep8123722@arran.dcs.ed.ac.uk>
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon University
Originator: nickh@VOILA.VENARI.CS.CMU.EDU

In article <CC.92Sep8123722@arran.dcs.ed.ac.uk> cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Chris Cooke) writes:

   In article <1992Sep7.183644.28930@news.nd.edu> ulick@chopin.helios.nd.edu (Ulick Stafford) writes:

      Eh?  When I studied Caesar in secondary school, Mona was
      translated as the Isle of Man.  Was my text wrong (or Caesar...
      he reckoned that it wouldn't get dark in the Norternmost regions
      of Britain, Caledonia, I guess, in the summer)?

   Orkney and Shetland come pretty close to having daylight at
   midnight; I've only been to Orkney myself but it has a gloomy
   half-light dusk for a few hours at hight, with the sun just below
   the horizon.  Shetland is quite a way further north, so even
   lighter in the summer.  Whether they counted as being part of
   Britain or Caledonia at the time, I don't know... 

Anywhere north of Fort William gets very little darkness. In my recent
holiday on Skye it was still light enough to find the Sligachan
campsite toilets at 11:30pm (and was that light again by 2am). My
night vision is appalling (too much hacking, I fear), and I guess that
anyone from a culture without electric light would count that as quite
light (certainly it passes the bedouin test for `dawn').

Nick
Xref: sparky soc.culture.celtic:5988 rec.sport.soccer:12648
From: mimir@milton.u.washington.edu (Al Billings)
Subject: Re: free lionfood! (was: Celtic Cross)
Organization: The Friends of Loki Society
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 04:53:23 GMT

In article <qX1NqB4w165w@brewich.hou.tx.us> vlaad@brewich.hou.tx.us (Vlaad Thunarsson) writes:
>
>Forgive me, but this smacks of the Odinic rite of Self-Dedication.  The 
>person is hanged upside down from a windy tree... well, here:
>
>I know that I hung              from a windy tree
>                nights all nine
>Wounded by the Gar              Given to Odhinn
>                Myself to Myself
>On that tree                    of which no man knowest
>                from what roots it rises.
>They dealt me no bread          Nor drinking horn
>                I looked down.
>I took up the Runes.            ROARING I TOOK THEM.
>                And fell back again.


 Gee, sounds familar!! (hi Vlaad!)

>Vlaad@brewich.hou.tx.us
>Vlaad Thunarsson==Eagles Reaches, Elder Hof=Ring of Troth
>Origin: The Brewer's Witch BBS -- Houston, TX -- +1 713 272 7350
>        "Hammar I modem, helga ve theta ok hald vord!"
>                 "The Hammer shall rise again"

 Wassail,
 Grendel of Barnstokker Hearth 

                           mimir@u.washington.edu
    /\  /\       +----------------------------------------+
   /__\/__\      | "I know that I hung on the windy tree  |          |
  /\  /\  /\     |  all of nights nine, wounded by Gar,   |          |
 /__\/__\/__\    |   given to Odhinn, myself to myself,   |          |
    /\  /\       | upon that tree of which none can tell  |          |
   /__\/__\      |      from what root it rises."         |    ______|______
                 +----------------------------------------+
From: dfair@octel.com (Donald Fair)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: FYI - Politics in NI
Date: 4 Sep 92 16:37:34 GMT
Organization: Octel Communications Inc., Milpitas Ca.

In article <1992Sep3.143605.22208@news.clarkson.edu> walker@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Graham Walker, 227 West Old Main,268-3847,) writes:
>From article <CC.92Sep3123403@arran.dcs.ed.ac.uk>, by cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Chris Cooke):
>> In article <1992Sep2.161310.6476@news.clarkson.edu> walker@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Graham Walker, 227 West Old Main,268-3847,) writes:
>> 
>> The peoples of Scotland variously spoke Norse, Gaelic, Inglis (later Scots),
>> and Welsh.  I would think that most of the Scottish settlers spoke Scots when
>> they moved to Ulster, though I don't know for sure.
>> --
>> 	-- Chris. 	cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk   (on Janet, cc@uk.ac.ed.dcs)
>

	Is it not true that Ireland was invaded in much the same
	way that scotland was. That is first came the Iberian
	Celts then the norse then the Roman (or was it the other way?)
	Then the normans. Yes normans where relocated norsemen (and women)
	However they had picked up other cultures along the way.
	For thoes who wish to preserve a pure race concept
	explain Strongbow to me.
	Aren't all those towers to defend against
	the norse? Also, doesn't the height and red and blond hair
	come from these invasions. Is it impossible that the 
	Irish also spoke different languages at different times
	in seperate areas across Ireland. The idea that the
	Irish are a purer race seems somehow to be evading
	the facts that are carved in stone all over Ireland.

-- 
_____________________________________________
Donald H. Fair       Software Sanitation Eng.
dfair@octel.com     "They're all small when 
standard disclaimer  They're blue." papa smurf 
---------------------------------------------
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 09:38:53 -0400 
From: Nenad Antonic <na0i+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Yu
Distribution: world

Zoran Draskovic writes:

>5. 9 November 1991: Two boats arrived in Karlovac from
>   Germany carrying aboard 'Stinger' missiles.

	Boating in Karlovac in November? Very challenging.
Maybe in a canoe. 
	Is the rest of the text equally reliable?

	Have fun

		Nenad Antoni\'c.
From: nyu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
Subject: Re: The Europian
Date: 4 Sep 92 23:53:04 GMT
Organization: New York University

In article 15375@husc3.harvard.edu, stojanov@husc8.harvard.edu (Milan Stojanovic) writes:
> 
> Disclaimer: I obtained this text in this form.  I do not have complete
> text, and I would welcome someone else posting it.
> 
> Milan
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                         deleted text
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     The time is therefore ripe for a political solution based on the status 
>     quo. There is no alternative but to find a peace settlement which meets 
>     legitimate Serb needs for equality inside Bosnia as part of single 
>     Serbian nation. ...

Ahh, so in other words, reward war crimes and psychotic aggression. The
time is right for providing heavy artillery to the Bosnians. And of
course preparing the legal briefs for the War Crimes Trials against
Sloban Milosevic and the other Serbian murderers.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
Subject: Pure Flame, nothing else Was: Re: The goal of an intervention
From: stojanov@husc10.harvard.edu (Milan Stojanovic)
Date: 8 Sep 92 09:21:14 EDT
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

In article <1992Sep8.000326.12859@unixland.natick.ma.us> sharon@unixland.natick.ma.us (Sharon Machlis Gartenberg) writes:
>
>In my opinion, those who fired the first shots at defenseless civilians
>are infinitely more to blame than those who took a political action in
>response to a democratic election.

Yap, Muslims on the Serbian wedding.  Thanks Sharon, I wouldn't expect 
this level of objectivity from you.  Also attemtpts to take over in Bijeljina
a municipality with 70% of Serbs before ( now 90% ) war.
>
>THOSE WHO WERE FIRST TO USE A *MILITARY* RESPONSE TO A *POLITICAL*
>PROBLEM MUST ACCEPT THE MAJORITY OF BLAME FOR THE CARNAGE.
>

Thanks Sharon for offering Serbs minority position in Bosnia.  Serbs do not
want that, and if you do not like, please take up arms and go there.

>NOT those who were using conventional diplomatic actions.
>
>>The West should be ashamed for what it did, because it needlessly unleashed
>>a civil war in a country that could have found a peaceful, political, 
>>solution to its problems, only if it had pressed Mr. Izetbegovic to find a
>>diplomatic solution.
>
>Actually, the Serbian nationalists should be ashamed.
>

I am not, OK?


>*They* needlessly unleashed massive death, destruction, and suffering in a 
>country that could have found a peaceful, political solution to its
>problems. If only they had gone to the negotiating table instead of
>destroying the nation and murdering tens of thousands of people.
>

Sharon, it is very difficult not to start a flame war here calling you
names.  Mr. Andrej Benedejcic correctly defined you behaviour in his
postings.  Who refused negotiations about cantonization and who refused
to go along what he has already signed ? Alija, your man, not Serbs.
Idea of cantonization has backing of the majority of the "Bosnians,"
ie. Croats and Serbs.  I know that you read "Serbian foes are at odds
in Sarajevo," you have quoted it yesterday.


>It is truly incredible to me that you DON'T blame those with the guns
>who are killing people, but outsiders thousands of miles away who used
>a legitimate political tool -- diplomatic recognition -- in response to
>an election. 
>

Ughrrr.   Alija's refusal to negotiate is dirrect result of premature
recognition. As far as election goes, the government is a coalition
government of nationalistic parties.  Alija never won absolute majority of 
votes, so please do not spread lies.  With formation of Herceg-Bosna
and Serbian Republic of Bosnia, Alija and his "secular" state are history
and sooner he realizes that, better for everyone.  

>
>-- 
>Sharon Machlis Gartenberg
>Framingham, MA  USA
>email: sharon@unixland.natick.ma.us   or   uunet!think.com!unixland!sharon


Xref: sparky soc.culture.yugoslavia:8636 soc.culture.europe:8249 soc.culture.turkish:9805
From: kutluk@ccl.umist.ac.uk (Kutluk Ozguven)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: Muslims "Slaughter Their Own People"
Date: 9 Sep 92 20:19:42 GMT
Organization: Manchester Computing Centre

In <1992Aug27.000645.15145@husc3.harvard.edu> stojanov@husc10.harvard.edu (Milan Stojanovic) writes:
>In article <BtMA1G.16@ecf.toronto.edu> blazic@ecf.toronto.edu (BLAZIC Joseph R) writes:
>>
>>After more than 3 postings of the very same story from different publishers,
>>I thought it would be prudent to keep things in perspective.
>>
>>/Joe Blazic

>Mr. Blazic,

>As usual, you fail to understand the main point, because of  your pathological
>feelings toward Serbs.  The government of Alija Izetbegovic is a 
>criminal government that is ready to kill its own people.  There is 


There is no reason to believe the Serbian perspective that anything
happening in Bosnia is caused by Bosnians and not by Serbs. Besides
the Izzetbegovic government is a democraticly elected and legitimate
government of all Bosnia. The Bosnian Muslims have the tradition of
coexistance, and because they have been the elite of Bosnia be it in
the Ottoman or the Tito period, there was and still is no reason for the
culturally and morally civilized Sarajevo people to be against the
Serbian peasants. As for the urban Serbians - who are as loyal to the
elected and legitimate government as the Muslims, there are many who
are fighting side by side with the Bosnian Muslims.  

This is not a war between Serbian minority against a Majority of
Muslims/Serbs/Croats, this is a conflict between good and evil,
the civilian population against a fully equiped brutal army from Serbia.

When this conflict will end, in a month, a year or a century, and the
Bosnia is free again, and the peaceful existance of the three
nationalities is established,  we shall see the war criminals both in
occupied Bosnia and Belgrade, who are responsible for the murder of tens of
thousands of innocent and unarmed civilians, put to justice, just as
the Nazis had been. 

>Milan N. Stojanovic  

Kutluk Ozguven
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
From: 8800529@hydra.maths.unsw.EDU.AU ()
Subject: Re: Time to Get Rid of the Nation-State? (was:  Re: THE NEW BULLY OF THE BALKANS [ Part 4 from 4 ])
Organization: school of Mathematics UNSW
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 06:57:28 GMT

In article <95277@bu.edu> buis@buengc.bu.edu (Lou Buis) writes:
>In article <1992Sep3.030515.12379@panix.com> gcf@panix.com (Gordon Fitch) writes:
>>
>>What I'm really getting at is that the "nation", as a
>>concept, is evidently worthless at protecting people's
>>rights and safety.  We should be trying to find alterna-
>>tives to it.
>
>
>
>
>	A B S O L U T E L Y ! ! ! 
>	=========================
>
>	Even more, since nationality is no uniquely defined. 
>	And it can change.
>	
>	Regards,
>
>		Lou

		One is not related to the other. The only thing that might
give human writes a chance is a true (or at least as close as possible)
democracy. Also give democracy some time, so people can come out into the sun.
	George

Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.greek
From: sk@groo.sunbim.be (Sasa Konecni)
Subject: Re: SKOP(L)JE/MACEDONIA: WHAT'S IN A NAME?
Reply-To: sk@sunbim.be ()
Organization: BIM Everberg Belgium
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 17:32:55 GMT

In article <1992Sep7.220346.30971@eecs.nwu.edu> 
efstse@epsilon.eecs.nwu.edu (Serafim Efstratiadis) writes:

 |> Some of you may find this quite interesting. Thanks to Panos Tamamidis
 |> for bringing it to our attention.
 |> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

 |> 		  SKOP(L)JE/MACEDONIA: WHAT'S IN A NAME?
 |>    Sweet Vardar/Axios, flow gently, till I end my song - Edmund Spenserovitch
 |> ..... deleted

This article brings to attention the fact that the public media in Greece 
is influnced by Serbian newspapers. This can be seen from the spelling of Skopje.
Namely, The capital city of Republic of Macedonia is spelled Skopje in the
Macedonian language. SKOPLJE is the spelling used in Serbia.

I will not comment on the contents of this article because I do not
consider it serious or scientific in order to spend my time on it. 


Sasa.

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Sasa Konecni e-mail:sk@sunbim.be -Views here are my own-