HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)
Newsgroups: sci.med,talk.politics.medicine
Subject: Re: Physician's Incomes
Date: 4 Jan 93 15:33:43 GMT
Reply-To: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)
Followup-To: sci.med
Organization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science

In article <=thr35c@dixie.com> jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond) writes:
>rtoptan@lucpum.it.luc.edu (Richard Z Toptani) writes:
>
>>In addition, PhD's do not have to pay the large malpractice premiums, or 
>
>Probably 'cuz PhDs don't harm as many people as MDs.
>
Yeah?  Tell it to Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

>In the venerable words of someone, "Tough shit, son".  Your personal
>financial situation is of no concern to your prospective patients and 
>should certainly not be of concern to those who now set reimbursement 
>rates.

Do you think that you can just set the rates to whatever you want
and have no consequences?  The lower the rates get, the less service
and the less quality the service becomes.  Look at the welfare
mills in cities like Chicago where all the clients are medicaid.
Note that I said client, not patient.  You couldn't call what they
get medical care.  Yet some of the doctors that run these have
the highest incomes.

>If you don't like the debt load or can't afford the bill, perhaps you 
>could do the same thing the  rest of us do - alter your lifestyle
>accordingly.  You COULD work your way through school. Or you could

Opportunities do not really exist for med students to make significant
money during med school.  Also, the work schedule is not flexible
like it is in grad school.  Grad students essentially get a stipend
if they are any good (and are US citizens).  Med students do only
if they are in a PhD program also, in the military, or belong to
very select minority groups.

>(that was my brother's approach).  That you choose to hock your ass up
>to your gills is YOUR problem.  *I* think you are a fool and would
>question your professional judgement based on your acquiring that kind
>of debt.

So you advocate only those with very rich daddies going to medical
school?  The average Joe could never do it without hocking his ass.
Certainly I agree that something needs to be done, but I'm not sure
what it is.  The bills for training have to be paid by someone.  If
you refuse to allow the professional to make enough profit to pay
his training debts, then you have to subsidize the training.
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "I have given you an argument; I am not obliged
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  to supply you with an understanding." -S.Johnson
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: What's Lorazepam
Date: 5 Jan 93 03:09:42 GMT
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1993Jan4.203037.8614@newstand.syr.edu> mdkline@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Mark D. Kline) writes:
>>>Whats Lorazepam and how does it compare to Valium or does it all.
>>It is a close relative of Valium with a longer half-life.
>>I use it mostly to break status epilepticus,
>
>Lorazepam has a much shorter half life than Valium (typical estimates
>are 9-12 hours for lorazepam, 14-60 hours for Valium).

Gordon isn't wrong so much as he's looking at it from the point of
a neurologist who uses the drug for status epilepticus.  In fact,
IV Valium has a very rapid onset of action due to its relative
lipophilicity, which causes a rapid entry into the brain.  However,
it's equally rapidly redistributed to other fatty tissues, which
then act as a depot.  To a neurologist trying to suppress seizures over
a period of minutes to hours, Valium works quickly but its effect
doesn't last very long.  It is possible to end up giving too much
drug because the instantaneous effect of the drug is dissipated
quickly.

Taken chronically by the oral route, this rapid redistribution is
overwhelmed by Valium's complex metabolism, which generates
pharmacologically active metabolites at several different steps.
To a psychiatrist treating anxiety, Valium has a long duration
of action, and it and its metabolites tends to accumulate over time.
The lipophilicity of Valium may be a factor, however, in making
its an attractive drug of abuse--even taken orally, it tends to
enter the brain quickly, and this may contribute to its popularity
with patients and others over drugs like oxazepam or lorazepam.

Lorazepam is not metabolized to any active metabolites; it is
conjugated as the glucuronide and excreted.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: mcovingt@aisun3.ai.uga.edu (Michael Covington)
Subject: Re: Reliability in medicine and engineering  (was: .
Organization: AI Programs, University of Georgia, Athens
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 04:17:04 GMT

In article <18025@pitt.UUCP> geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks) writes:
>In article <1993Jan6.133952.3044@cnsvax.uwec.edu> nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu (David Nye) writes:
>>[reply to geb@cs.pitt.edu]
>> 
>>>Before computers can significantly aid us in routine cases, advances in
>>>computer technology are needed such that the computer can acquire the
>>>data directly without the physician having to enter it.  We are
>>>probably 10 years away from that, at least.
>> 
>>Doesn't that depend on how we want to keep the medical record?  If we
>>insist on the conventional narrative H+P, then it will take that long
>>for natural language processing technology to get good enough, but if we
>>could use something more like a database of signs and symptoms, the
>>technology is available today.  A nurse could go through an on-line
>
>Yes, but 99.9% of all physicians and hospitals seem to insist on
>the traditional textual H&P, etc.  We need to be able to read and
>parse it.

Natural language processing technology is not far from what is needed,
because medical language is so stilted (well, so precise and has a limited
vocabulary consisting of unambiguous words).  Computers can presently
understand weather reports 100% (and translate them into French in Canada);
some types of medical records are probably very close to the same level
of tractability.  There has been work on this but I'm not familiar with
it.

-- 
:-  Michael A. Covington     internet mcovingt@uga.cc.uga.edu :    *****
:-  Artificial Intelligence Programs       phone 706 542-0358 :  *********
:-  The University of Georgia                fax 706 542-0349 :   *  *  *
:-  Athens, Georgia 30602-7415 U.S.A.     amateur radio N4TMI :  ** *** **
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: mcovingt@aisun3.ai.uga.edu (Michael Covington)
Subject: Re: Can a person "sense" a cholesterol problem?
Keywords: cholesterol, lethargy, sense, diagnosis, question, help
Organization: AI Programs, University of Georgia, Athens
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 21:57:22 GMT

In article <1993Jan9.103853.9606@compunet.uucp> tony@compunet.uucp (tony) writes:
>	I am wondering if a person can "sense" a cholesterol problem by the
>way they feel?
>
>	Over the past several months I have noticed that when I eat a high
>fat meal: fatty meats and pizza with extra cheese or even barbequed ribs --
>I notice on the morning after that I have a harder time waking up than usual.
>My thoughts are often hard to collect.  I feel almost senile on such occasions.

Maybe you are having stomachaches or burping in your sleep (from
gastric reflux) and although they don't wake you, they interfere with
your sleep processes to some extent.  Can easily happen.
-- 
:-  Michael A. Covington     internet mcovingt@uga.cc.uga.edu :    *****
:-  Artificial Intelligence Programs       phone 706 542-0358 :  *********
:-  The University of Georgia                fax 706 542-0349 :   *  *  *
:-  Athens, Georgia 30602-7415 U.S.A.     amateur radio N4TMI :  ** *** **
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: clw@hprnd.rose.hp.com (Carl Wuebker)
Subject: Re: Cellular telephones and brain tumors
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 21:26:57 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: HP Roseville Networks
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.8 PL6]

> One electrical engineer pointed out that there are probably worse RF hazards
> in electric blankets and from toasters.  Another engineer added power lines
> as well.

     None of these devices emit significant power above 120 Hz.  Cellular
phone frequencies are about 7.5 million times higher.

     High frequency RF does cause heating; in fact, I think one of the 
diathermy bands is at 915 MHz (compared to about 900 MHz for cellular).
I'm guessing that the heating effects of a portable cellular phone wouldn't
cause cancer.  Instead, I'm guessing that it is possible for low power RF of 
some frequency to vibrate and break a molecular bond in a [human] cell --
microwave ovens are about 2~3 times the frequency of cellular phones, and
operate by vibrating water molecules until they get hot.  But this would
only be a guess -- you'd have to do some calculations to figure out which
frequencies would be exactly right to break which molecular bonds, and the
RF field strength would have to be pretty strong close to the [human] cell (a
microwave oven's power, at about 1000W, is 200 times that of a 5 W cellular
phone's).  In short, if a 1~5W cellular phone can cause cancer (and I'm not 
saying it can, I'm just speculating here), I'd expect skin cancer instead of
brain cancer because the cells just below the skin's surface would typically
absorb most of the energy.

My guesses only (I didn't do any math),
                                 
    Carl Wuebker * HP Roseville * clw@hprnd.rose.hp.com * (916) 785-4296
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: fulk@cs.rochester.edu (Mark Fulk)
Subject: Re: Heating milk in microwave for babies??
Organization: University of Rochester
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 16:36:51 GMT

mjk@icf.hrb.com (Michael J. Kelley) writes:
>My wife fell asleep one night while heating a bottle of milk in a soup pan. 
>She set of the smoke detector once the bottle started to burn. She now wants 
>to heat the bottle of milk in the microwave. Is it safe to do this???  

We used one of those $5 bottle warmers: you put a tablespoon of water in
the bottom, plug it in, and put the bottle in.  It worked very well on
Playtex-type nursers.  The warmer shuts itself off when the water is gone.

We also put expressed breast milk directly into the nurser bags, dated them,
and stuck them in a topless Kleenex box in the freezer door.  The advantages
over an ice cube tray were that the bags were dated, and they went directly
into the nurser.  Our breast pump was the Marshall type, with a graduated
cylinder that held the milk.  I just put a dated bag over the end of the
bottle, flipped them over, took the bag off, put on a twist tie, and froze
it.  At the time of use, I took the tie off, stretched the bag over the
nurser, put a nipple on, and warmed it.

This also proved useful with my excessively squeamish brother-in-law.
``Hey Bob! Wanna popsicle?''  Got him good ;-).
-- 
Mark A. Fulk			University of Rochester
Computer Science Department	fulk@cs.rochester.edu
Xref: sparky sci.med:23624 sci.philosophy.tech:4709
From: wright@duca.hi.com (David Wright)
Newsgroups: sci.med,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Characterization of quack theories
Date: 7 Jan 1993 18:51:44 -0000
Organization: Hitachi Computer Products, OSSD division
NNTP-Posting-Host: duca.hi.com

In article <1ihu2pINNo4d@im4u.cs.utexas.edu> turpin@cs.utexas.edu
(Russell Turpin) writes:

[much excellent stuff deleted]

>-*----
>CARTS BEFORE HORSES.  Proponents of quack theories are full of
>excuses for why they have such meagre evidence of their beliefs.
>These range from "no one funds us" to "the conspiratorial and
>established institutions ignore us for political reasons." These
>excuses would not be needed if there were good evidence for the
>notions in question.  

What?  You mean that all-powerful AMA, which, as we all know, is
suppressing tons of valuable research even as we sit here (as well as
restricting the supply of MDs), might not be the ogre it's painted?

>The fact that these excuses are offered is
>almost an admission that the proponent believes *despite* a lack
>of good evidence.  It it were otherwise, the proponent would
>*focus* on the evidence and argue for funding or institutional
>change because the evidence is so good, rather than excusing the
>lack of evidence because of these other factors.

There's a related defense, along the lines of "well, people laughed at
such-and-such theory, and it turned out to be true."  (Such-and-such
can be replaced by, say, continental drift -- which actually doesn't
exist either, but plate tectonics does.)  This completely fails to
consider that people can laugh at a theory because it's looney. 

>"MILLIONS OF CHINESE CANNOT BE WRONG."  This excuse usually comes
>in the defense of notions resurrected from older traditions,
>e.g., traditional Chinese medicine.  In some sense, it falls
>under the "big lie" tradition.  In a few minutes, someone with a
>modicum of historical knowledge should be able to think of
>several cases where millions of Chinese (or Amerindians or
>ancient Hellenes or ...) and millenia of experience *were* wrong.

To quote Will Cuppy from memory, "[the ancient Egyptians] believed
that the sun went around the earth on a boat, and that a pig ate the
moon every 28 days".  A footnote adds, "This was called the Wisdom of
the Ancients."

Lest we go overboard, I would have trouble with an argument that said
"there's no need to investigate *any* traditional remedies because
those primitives have nothing to teach us."  I mean, God knows what we
might be overlooking.  On the other hand, the mere fact that a
supposed remedy exists doesn't necessarily means that it works.
There's way more heat than light on some of these issues and a real
lack of primary sources -- for example, I know that, way back, there
was a real serious period of Chinese medicine and all kinds of medical
books were written and various cures noted, but wouldn't you just love
to see what they might have run as clinical trials?

  -- David Wright, Hitachi Computer Products (America), Inc.
     wright@hicomb.hi.com
From: "eliot gelwan" <eliot.gelwan@channel1.com>
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: religiosity gene?
Date: 11 Jan 93 22:28:03 EST
Reply-To: "eliot gelwan" <eliot.gelwan@channel1.com>
Distribution: sci
Organization: Channel 1 Communications

On 01-10-93 INFOSPUNJ (DAN FIELD wrote:

IDI seem to recall some talk about the human tendency to be religious
IDbeing a genetic trait.
ID
IDDoes anyone know about any studies that attempted to investigate this
IDclaim?  Do you have any info at all?  Any replies will be appreciated.

Some religious (or: it has been called "pseudoreligious," altho I
don't know how anyone can presume to judge!) ecstasy can be
induced by temporal lobe (or complex partial) seizures. These are
known to have a hereditary component. That may be a part of the
conundrum.

                   |
...eliot          -*-              Postlink: ->CHANNEL1 [R/O okay]
                   |               Internet: eliot.gelwan@channel1.com

---
EZ 1.39 #178 [in Brookline MA  8:23 pm, Monday 01/11/93]
--
Channel 1 (R)   Cambridge, MA

Newsgroups: sci.med
From: fulk@cs.rochester.edu (Mark Fulk)
Subject: Re: Swallowing difficulties
Organization: University of Rochester
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 17:02:24 GMT

In article <17994@pitt.UUCP> geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks) writes:
>In article <45063@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> tlin@eeyore.Berkeley.EDU (Tony Lin) writes:
>
>>SUMMARY:  Looking for information regarding inability to swallow in a 6 
>>	  month old infant who was born 6/92 with a mild sacral spina bifida 
>>	  with an associated Arnold Chiari malformation.
>
>The only thing that comes to mind other than a structural problem
>is infantile botulism.  They hadn't fed her any honey in her formula
>had they?

I hope that they have checked the condition of the shunt; if not,
intracranial pressure may be involved.
-- 
Mark A. Fulk			University of Rochester
Computer Science Department	fulk@cs.rochester.edu
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: rp@llex ( Richard Pavelle)
Subject: Re: Sleep apnea
Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 93 11:55:03 GMT

In article <1993Jan8.231805.9954@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
>In article <1993Jan8.203027.20913@posms.cactus.org> rick@posms.cactus.org (Rick Kirchhof) writes:
>>I don't relish the thought of a face mask every night of the rest of my
>>life, and would like to seek other information on sleep apnea.  I have
>>the CT scan and sleep study reports.  If anyone can point me to
>>alternatives and/or additional information, I would be very grateful.
>
>Lose weight.   (Hmmmm, maybe that CPAP mask doesn't look that bad after all.

Weight is often not an issue. With many it is the structure of the lower
jaw.
From: rind@enterprise.bih.harvard.edu (David Rind)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Primary Ambiladosis
Date: 4 Jan 93 22:27:14 GMT
Organization: Beth Israel Hospital, Harvard Medical School, Boston Mass., USA

In article <1993Jan4.202143.11491@samba.oit.unc.edu> joan@med.unc.edu
 (Joan Shields) writes:
>Primary ambiladosis or ambilidosis, I'm not quite sure of the spelling. 
>Anyone ever hear of this?

You probably mean amyloidosis, which can be primary (or secondary to
another disease such as myeloma).
-- 
David Rind
rind@binoc.bih.harvard.edu
From: turpin@cs.utexas.edu (Russell Turpin)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Prescientific Traditions, again (was: Re: Herbs...)
Date: 7 Jan 1993 12:43:12 -0600
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: im4u.cs.utexas.edu
Summary: And what did the ancient Chinese believe about blood??

-*----
In article <szikopou.726364178@cunews> szikopou@alfred.carleton.ca (Steven Zikopoulos) writes:
> Without knowing the extent of the previous discussion...I just wanted
> to say that I agree with you Ruth.  The dividing lines are ultimately
> political are drawn to serve the purpose of ...

Would you say that there is no more reason to believe the modern
notion about blood circulating from the heart through the artieries
and back through the veins, than the ancient Greek notion that the
arteries carried air? 

Unless one takes a radically nihilistic view that, because it is
political, all science is bogus, one had better make room in this
political analysis for the notion that some practices and modes
of thought "are drawn to serve the purpose of" finding empirical
truth and that some practices and modes of thought are better for
this purpose than others.  It is only the radically nihilistic
view that allows one to immediately step from the fact that all
science is political to the notion that therefore all scientific
claims have equal validity. 

BTW, does anyone know what the ancient Chinese believe about the
circulation of the blood?

Russell
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: Belinda J.F. Rossiter
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Baby with no father
Summary: baby with no father not possible
Date: 7 Jan 1993 15:56:10 GMT
Reply-To: rossiter@bcm.tmc.edu
Followup-To: sci.med
Organization: Baylor College of Medicine

>In article <1ieua7INNfoi@transfer.stratus.com>, pfieland@citron.sw.stratus.com
(Peggy Fieland) writes:
>|> A group of us were shooting the breeze over coffee last night when
>|> two of the women announced they were planning to have a baby next
>|> year.  After the usual good wishes, someone mentioned she had
>|> heard that a clinic in Australia was combining two (human) eggs
>|> in vitro using the enzyme hyaluronidase, enabling two women to
>|> have a baby together, ie, two mothers and no father.
>|> 
>|> Is this true or only a rumor?  Any and all details will be gratefully
>|> appreciated.
>|> 
>|> Peggy
>|>
 
This is not possible in humans.  There is a phenomenon called "imprinting"
which means that some genes only work when they are inherited from the
mother and some only work when they are inherited from the father.  An embryo
made from two female eggs would not survive.

Sometimes there is an error in egg or sperm formation that causes a person to
have two copies of a particular chromosome from the same parent (instead of one
from each).  This can lead to serious problems, such as Prader-Willi syndrome
or Angelman syndrome.  Individuals with two copies of chromosome 15 from their
mother and none from their father have Prader-Willi syndrome; the opposite
situtation results in Angelman syndrome.

Belinda Rossiter
Newsgroups: sci.med,sci.skeptic
From: dheisler@CERIS.Purdue.EDU (Dave Heisler)
Subject: Re: Characterization of quack theories
Organization: Center for Environmental and Regulatory Information Systems, Purdue University
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 20:40:34 GMT

I can't help but disagree with most everything Russel says.

I keep thinking of Ratchel Carson and "Silent Spring" she
was ostracized by well, gee, near everyone. even had
threats on her life.

why? because she challenged people's thinking. Has nothing
changed in the scientific community?

dave
From:  (MJ)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Ventolin
Date: 7 Jan 93 13:14:52 GMT
Followup-To: sci.med

I'm new to the net and maybe this topic has been discussed to death in the
past but here goes.

My 6 year old son has been diagnosed (~3 years ago) as a mild asthmatic or
having a "tendency towards being asthmatic".  He is receiving allergy
shots.
His coughing fits almost always occur at night right after he goes to bed. 
The fits are infrequent and I believe that the are caused or compounded by
any eating close to bedtime (esphogial reflux?).

At any rate, Ventolin is prescribed and we use it.  My wife is much more
liberal with its use than me as I'm one of the people that prefers to avoid
medicine unless absolutely necessary.

Question:  Is there any evidence of negative long term effects in the
regular use of Ventolin?  If so please point me towards the sources. 
Thanks.

MJ

[As if you didn't already know, my opinions are my own and not my
company's.]
From: mucit@cs.rochester.edu (Bulent Murtezaoglu)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Advice on contact lenses wanted (especially on disposable ones)
Date: 4 Jan 93 05:58:02 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department, University of Rochester

In article <1i8hjoINN86t@agate.berkeley.edu> werner@dewey.soe.berkeley.edu (John Werner) writes:

>   There are some extended wear soft lenses, but my optometrist says
>   they're mostly a good way to get an eye infection.  He says even the
>   disposable ones should be taken out at night.

Back in '84 (I think) when I first got mine, my ophtalmologist in Turkey
recommended the B&L extended wear kind and told me I could keep them in 
for up to a month (maybe even more, I don't remember).  So I still get the 
same kind and keep them on for up to 2 months or so.  I replace them once a 
year mostly because something happens to them (the last time it was my 4 year
old neice draining the liquid out of the container).  I understand that
the recommendation changed as more data came in during the recent years,
but I figure since I'm having no discomfort there's no obvious need to
change my habits.  Optometrists and ophtalmologists I've seen over the 
years can't find anything wrong with my eyes other than near-sightedness, 
though I sometimes get scolded for keeping them on that long.  Maybe 
I'm being short sighted too?

-Mucit
Newsgroups: sci.med