From: ulick@angelico.helios.nd.edu (Ulick Stafford)
Subject: Re: Nationalism - or Why do people have flags in their gardens?
Organization: OUC, University of Notre Dame
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 22:08:39 GMT

In article <1992Oct4.201952.26162@rdg.dec.com> spain@galvia.enet.dec.com () writes:
>
>First of all, Soccer is a slang term for football.  Soccer is used in the 
>United States and Australia but football or a variation is used virtually everywhere else in the world by football fans.  In Ireland the game is
>administered by the FOOTBALL Association of Ireland.  I generally refer to
>the game as football as do most football fans.  
>

I contest that statement.  My father and brother often say football but both
lived for a long time in England.  Most of my friends in university, including
some fanatic LOI fans, always said soccer.  Perhaps it depends on the part 
of the country you're from.

>Ireland and further afield that does not make me anti Irish.  While I've
>never met your friends and relatives I doubt if they are all anti Irish either.
>98.4% of our electorate chose not to vote for Sinn Fein in the last
>general election.  That does not make us English or anti Irish.
>

No.  You're right.  Itprobably isn't that bad and most people are Irish first,
but my English mother noticed a serious inferiority amongst irish people
years ago.  Sometimes I detect a similar attitude in your postings.  You do 
seem more vitriolic in your attacks on the GAA and IRA than in attacks on
Unionist bigots.

>As for my hatred of the English football team being unnatural, well it's
>shared with just about every other football fan in these islands outside of
>England.  Try watching an England game in a Scotland pub.  One NI fan
>whom I presume was an arsdent unionist commented that the only time he ever
>wants us to win is when we play England.  

I guess I'm strange then.  After Ireland I support England, and would
favour them against NI or Scotland, but then I am half English.

>What was warranted these latest personal attacks?  
>

Major flame wars going on of which I wasn't a part :-).  Just thought it
was time to rattle your cage again.
:-)

>Sorry Ulick, I'm Irish and proud of it.  I may not support the IRA and I
>may not like the sectarian policies of the GAA but that doesn't make me any
>less Irish.

Let's define Irishness.  By my reckoning, all Irish people are Irish to 
the same degree, and you are more Irish than I because you live in
Ireland now, while I've been abroad for a few years.  And Irish people
have many different opinions.  We have never been cohesive.  You and I
couldn't be more polar on many issues.  I never said you were less
Irish.  I merely said you were anglophilic, a terrible insult, for which
I apologise.  But I am anglophilic in my own way.  I support the English
soccer team and English league soccer in general.

All unionists are proud of their Irishness too, and are as Irish as anyone
else on the island, but want to maintain a strong link with Britain.  
Most Irish people are Unionist to some degree.  The 1916 rising was very
unpopular and if it hadn't been for the executions Ireland may still be
part of the UK.  Let's say I am less unionist than you.  Is that acceptable?  


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 
+ 'There was a  master come unto the earth, + Ulick Stafford, PP-ASEL       +
+    born in the holy land of Indiana,      + Dept of Chemical Engineering, +
+ in the mystical hills east of Fort Wayne'.+ Notre Dame, IN 46556          +
+      B'fhearr liom bheith ag eitilt.      +    ulick@bach.helios.nd.edu   +
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++