HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mkkuhner@phylo.genetics.washington.edu (Mary K. Kuhner)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,rec.arts.sf.science
Subject: Re: Are the Moties us?
Date: 13 Aug 92 14:59:00 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <1992Aug12.201344.6642@oracle.us.oracle.com> mfriedma@uucp (Michael Friedman) writes:

[current social conditions select for larger, earlier families]

>If I am right, we would expect the following effects....

>1.  Women having children at a younger age
>2.  More women having children without husbands [...]
>3.  More premature births [...]
>4.  Women having more kids

>Comments?

Three.  The first is that you're mistaken if you think infant mortality is
not an issue today.  You're confusing affluent white America and Europe
with the human species as a whole.  The vast majority of humans live in
conditions where extra children, children without two parents to
care for them, and especially premature children are unlikely to live.

The second is that you're expecting evolution to work much faster than
it actually does.  How long have we had effective care for premies?
Maybe a couple of generations.  This is a trivial amount of time on an
evolutionary scale.  If you are seeing the trends above today, evolution
is not the reason--after all, the children from the best premie-rescue
methods aren't even old enough to reproduce yet.  Ditto for family
size (my family tree has an 11-child family where half died only four
generations back).

And the third is that humans, being sentient, do a lot of things that
are not evolutionarily optimal.  Culture evolves so much faster than
biology that it's almost immune to correction by natural selection.  If
I decide I won't have 20 kids because I don't want to live in poverty, I
won't.  Several tens of thousands of years of strong evolutionary
pressure to do otherwise *might* breed this tendency out of my line, but
human society is just not going to be stable for tens of thousands of
years.  Within a fraction of that time the natural selection is likely
to change (i.e. the 'mother hunts' proposed by Niven and others to
enforce population control).

Mary Kuhner mkkuhner@genetics.washington.edu
Dept. of Genetics, UW
From: rod@cats.ucsc.edu (Rodrick Su)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: David Brin - What is he up to?
Keywords: Brin, Dolphins, Sundiver, Startide Rising, Uplift War
Date: 21 Aug 92 06:01:09 GMT
Organization: Tigana Restoration Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: am.ucsc.edu


In article <1992Aug21.045056.12952@smsc.sony.com> tucker@smsc.sony.com (Tim Tucker) writes:
>
>Hello,
>
>    Does anyone out their have the scoop on what Brin is doing these days?  I
>have pretty much given up hope that he will ever finish the Startide/Uplift
>story, what with 5 years having past since "The Uplift War" was published.  He
>dropped SO MANY hints leading up to a possible closing book in the "Uplift War",

	Sorry to disappoint you.  The next Brin novel will be Stratos, a
non-uplift novel.  The next uplift novel might be Sooner.
-- 
[ Rodrick Su           ]-----------------------------------------------------] 
[----------------------[ A bomb lives only as it is falling.		     ] 
[ rod@cats.ucsc.edu    ]------------------------[ ``Use of Weapons''         ] 
[ rod@ucscb.ucsc.edu   ]------------------------[   Iain M. Banks            ]
From: ajl@ecs.soton.ac.uk (Lewis AJ)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: _Tigana_ question
Date: 17 Aug 92 14:09:45 GMT

In <darknite.714030847@camelot> darknite@camelot.bradley.edu (John S. Novak III) writes:

>In <1992Aug17.052715.15453@kithrup.COM> sef@kithrup.COM (Sean Eric Fagan) writes:

>>>SPOILERS
>

>But Brandin... Brandin is one of the most interesting characters
>I've come across in quite some time.  In many ways, I would
>almost have applauded his takeover of the western Palm, because
>he probably would have been _good_ for those people, from an
>historical point of view.  He was binding them into a common
>people, giving them access to a better economy, offering common
>defense, and patronizing their artists and poets.  But in some
>ways, like what he did to Tigana, and to Prince Valentin, he was
>the cold soul of evil.

I'd agree about his importance as a character - he and Dianora
- to me - stood out a mile from the other characters, and 
without them, I don't think the book would have made much
impression. But evil? I don't feel that what he did was any
more or less evil than his opponents (except Alberico, who
was a pure power-hungry monster) - his actions were simply
more extreme because he had the power to make them so. It
didn't seem to give him any satisfaction, or any pleasure - 
it was simply that he was tied in to the downward spiral of
tit-for-tat revenge (something that has snared most people
at some point and to some degree)

Andy


-- 
Andy Lewis  (ajl@ecs.soton.ac.uk)
Department of Electronics and Computer Science
University of Southampton
Xref: sparky rec.arts.sf.written:11049 rec.arts.sf.science:2480
From: phatch@storm.slc.mentorg.com 
Subject: Re: Orson Scott Card
Organization: Mentor Graphics Corp.,  Murray, Utah
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 20:32:03 GMT

>Everthing deleted since nothing new was added.

Just checked out Maps in the Mirror from the library.  Has a lot of interesting things and 
some discussion of where the stories came from and how they developed.

He explains a lot of his background and story settings.  The net result gives a good
view of Card's writing methods and experience.  I am always surprised what books an
author likes in comparison to the kinds of books the author writes.

Card does list two more books in the Alvin Maker series that are yet to be written.
It would be good to see those and find out what Alvin moves on to.

For Card trivia and "rare" stories, the book is loaded.  I think he does better novels
than short stories or novellas.  The original Ender's Game story included in the book is
so much less than what the novel becomes.

So, has anyone else read this collection?  What were your opinions?

Phil
From: nvaught@vax1.umkc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Yet Another Misleading Cover
Date: 13 Aug 92 22:59:56 GMT
Organization: University of Missouri - Kansas City

In article <1992Aug8.183546.11966@mikejag.wimsey.bc.ca>, pally@mikejag.wimsey.bc.ca (Pally Hoffstein) writes:
> In article <BsIy8E.EIu@news.cso.uiuc.edu> levine@symcom.math.uiuc.edu (Lenore Levine) writes:
>>Just bought Starseed (by Spider and Jeanne Robinson) at my local 
>>bookstore (from leafing through the book, doesn't look like I 
>>wasted my $5...).
>>
>>And, from leafing through the first chapter, we learn that the
>>main character, at the time the story begins, is 46 years old?
>>
>>So what is a Christie Brinkley clone doing on the front cover?
>>
> I talked to Spider about that cover: he is slightly amused by it but not in
> the least impressed with it. Spider has had bad luck with covers. Anyone
> remember the hideous covers for "Night Of Power" and "Mindkiller"?
> 
> Since the topic of misrepresentational covers has come up so often, I have a
> question for the net.
> Can anyone think of a book that had a promising, well-done cover where the
> contents of the book lived up to promise of the cover and the cover proved
> accurate?

Old covers on EarthSea Triology by LeGuin were pretty representative not only
of the books but of the books feel.  Also Song of Sorcery by Elizabeth
Scarborough, again original cover was good and also different.
From: brand@csgrad.cs.vt.edu (Jeff Brandenburg)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Help finding a trilogy
Date: 18 Aug 92 18:35:17 GMT
Organization: VPI&SU Computer Science Department, Blacksburg, VA

In article <1992Aug18.145453.8557@sequent.com> bfish@sequent.com (Brett Fishburne) writes:
>My wife was listening to National Public Radio and the book reviewer highly
>recommended "The Man Who Never Missed" (which is supposed to be a trilogy).

Author:  Steve Perry
Publisher:  Ace SF
Titles:  _The Man Who Never Missed_, _Matadora_, _The Machiavelli Interface_
Sequels: _The Albino Knife_, _Black Steel_
Prequel: _The 97th Step_

Yep, there are six of them now.  I'd call them "guilty pleasures" -- lots of
sex, drugs and violence, chrome everywhere, never a dull nanosecond.  But
there's also a lot of exploration of characters, and it's a *very* well-
realized milieu.  I confess, I buy them promptly as they appear...

	-jeffB (Jeff Brandenburg, Va. Tech CS)

... on _NPR_?  Yeesh.
From: branwen@cerebus.ccc.amdahl.com (Karen Williams)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Epic fantasy
Date: 17 Aug 92 18:17:54 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <p34nbmv7@cck.coventry.ac.uk> gdg019@cck.coventry.ac.uk (Ridley McIntyre) writes:
>I'm about half way through Tad Williams's first novel in his Memory, Sorrow
>and Thorn series, "The Dragonbone Chair", and I'm well impressed. 

>The second book is out, called The Stone of Farewell, and I don't know if
>there's a third. Anyone else know anything about this?

Well, when Tad was over at my house a couple of weeks ago, he said he had
just finished the third book ("To Green Angel Tower" I think it's called),
and that it will be out this spring. The manuscript is 1600 pages long, btw.

--
                                          Karen Williams
                                          branwen@cerebus.ras.amdahl.com
"Don't whine. Warrior women speak in a husky whisper."
  -- Brat Pack #3
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: qvortrup@inf.ethz.ch (Michael Qvortrup)
Subject: Re: The Keltiad (Re: Recommendation on Fantasy Epic Novels)
Organization: Dept. Informatik, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH), Zurich, CH
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 07:44:35 GMT

In article <KERS.92Aug13114926@cdollin.hpl.hp.com> kers@hplb.hpl.hp.com (Chris Dollin) writes:
>In article ... qvortrup@inf.ethz.ch (Michael Qvortrup) writes:
>
>   [Context ... The Keltiad]
>   Her use of words also annoyed me no end. "Troublous" and "any road". Hah!
>
>I don't know about "Troublous", but "any road" is a phrase used by by
>Derbyshire in-laws (not so much by my partner) with, unsurprisingly, the same
>meaning as "anyway". [Is the space yours or the authors?]

Well, according to the OED both "troublous" and "any road" are expressions
which are used (or have been). Their meaing is also fairly obvious. I still
find them extremely annoying, especially since they seem to be sprinkled
into the text, whenever the need for ethnic distinction arose. I have 
counted as much as 4 "any road"s on the same page said by the same person!

The space is Kennealy's, not mine. The OED lists both "anyroad" and "any 
road".

Just for the record (and to confuse the issue) Donaldson's use of words
doesn't annoy me at all and I like Wolfe's Book of the New Sun very much :-)

Greetings,
--Mike

-- 
#include <std-disclm.h>--"... and there is a small flaw in my character."---
Real Life: Michael Christian Heide Qvortrup      A Dane         ETH, Zuerich
e-mail   : qvortrup@inf.ethz.ch                  abroad         Switzerland
Institut fuer wissenschaftliches Rechnen  /  Inst. of Scientific Computation
From: mimir@milton.u.washington.edu (Al Billings)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: _Tigana_ question
Date: 20 Aug 92 06:28:20 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Aug20.062820.28093
Distribution: usa,ca
Organization: The Friends of Loki Society

In article <1992Aug19.224659.2809@cs.tulane.edu> coimay@sn01.sncc.lsu.edu writes:
>
>Hmm, since Mr. Kay is Canadian, and so am I, I was reminded of the 
>national unity debate occurring in Canada right now.  The province of
>Quebec (Tigana) is in danger of losing its cultural identity (name)
>due to the English culture invasion by the rest of Canada (Brandin)
>and the U.S. (Alberico).  Apologies to my American friends, but Tigana
>was in Brandin's territory, not Alberico's.  The other way I looked at
>it was the possibility of the loss of Canada due to the inability of
>the separate factions to work together and come to an agreement.  And
>even the French Canadians will agree that when it comes to pride and
>stubborness, they beat the rest of us hands down. 

 Mr. Kay was living in Italy for a reason when he wrote the book. He was
also immersing himself in period Italian culture. I would say the Italian
perspective was what he was looking for.

Wassail,
Al Billings

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Al Billings - Anthropology Undergrad - Admin for the Troth-l Mailing List | 
| SysOp of The Sacred Grove BBS (206)634-1980 -=- mimir@u.washington.edu    |
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Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: kasprj@isaac.its.rpi.edu (Jim Kasprzak)
Subject: Re: Are the Moties us?
Reply-To: kasprj@rpi.edu
Organization: The Big Wedge 
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 00:10:30 GMT

In article <104770003@otter.hpl.hp.com>, tgg@otter.hpl.hp.com (Tom Gardner) writes:
|> Are the Moties us? Dunno.
|> 
|> But I'd like to see someone do a decent essay on the subject of "compare and
|> contrast Motie society and values with Japanese society and values". Don't
|> worry about the breeding compulsion, there are plenty of other interesting 
|> comparisons that might be drawn.
 
 Modern Japan or feudal Japan? Today's Japan doesn't consist of families of
overlords trying to increase their own power at the expense of the rest of 
society. That description could apply to the era of the Shogunate, though.
------------------------------------------------------------------
     __  Live from Capitaland, heart of the Empire State...
 ___/  | Jim Kasprzak, computer operator @ RPI, Troy, NY, USA
/____ *| Pro-Environment. Pro-Education. Pro-Family. Pro-Choice. 
     \_| Pro-Change. Pro-America. Pro-Clinton.
      ====  e-mail: kasprj@rpi.edu or kasprzak@mts.rpi.edu 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: djdaneh@pbhyc.PacBell.COM (Dan'l DanehyOakes)
Subject: Re: Canonical Genre Fiction:  SF
Reply-To: djdaneh@PacBell.COM (Dan'l DanehyOakes)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 22:18:59 GMT

In article <86756@netnews.upenn.edu> weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener) writes:
>
>This is from Pringle's list, and he spells out his reasons.  Rather bluntly,
>he doesn't particularly like Asimov's work, but he recognizes that Asimov
>belongs on any list of top 100.  The robot stories were important, but
>they don't add up to a novel. . .

>As for the FOUNDATION trilogy, Pringle eliminates it from contention for
>the most idiotic of reasons: it's a "thinly" disguised retelling of the
>fall of the Roman Empire, told as a series of stories.

I'm rather astonished that he used such a dipsticky reason for eliminating
the F3 from consideration, since in fact there's a much better reason:  Like
I, ROBOT, none of the original Foundation books is a novel; they're all hacked
together short stories.

The problem, oh, the problem is that having *made* "not-really-a-novel" a
consideration, he then went and included THE MARTIAN CHRONICLES, MORE THAN
HUMAN, A CANTICLE FOR LIEBOWITZ, HOTHOUSE, PAVANE, and 334, all of which are
short stories cobbled into 'novels' -- the first and last of which, 
particularly, are far more fragmented in feel than either I, ROBOT or the
original FOUNDATION trilogy.

Oh, well.  Pringle's entitled to his opinion.

Even if it's wrong. . .


		The Pavlov dog and the Schroedinger cat
		Side by side in my forebrain sat
		With Shakespeare's monkey's crowding in behind. . .
		. . . it's all in your mind.
			-- Visual Purple

Dan'l Danehy-Oakes, Net.Roach
My opinions do NOT represent Pacific Bell,
Professional Development, or anyone else.
But I'm willing to share.
From: lola@LUCID.COM (Lola McCrary)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Diane Duane-Door into Sunset
Date: 14 Aug 92 03:23:04 GMT



	goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb) writes:
	>lhb6v@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Laura Hayes Burchard) writes:
	>>Hmm.  Diane Duane didn't sneak _Door Into Sunset_ out when I wasn't
	>>looking, did she?  Nah, that's in the list of books that will appear
	>>when _Last Dangerous Visions_ freezes ov-- uh, is published.
	
	>>Well, uh, yes. Actually she did. It's a British edition and _Locus_
	>doesn't list an American edition in its list of upcoming books but, it
	>*is* out. (By the time I heard about it, Dark Carnival was sold out,
	>blast it.)

I got one before they sold out.  Not *terribly* expensive for a British import:
about $10.00, I believe.  Well worth it.  Her experience as a novelist shows,
and the book is wonderful.  Her characters are still the same (I was a little
worried about that because of the number of years since the last one), and many
of her favorite themes about life, the universe and everything (opps, wrong
author :-)) are inserted nicely.  The book kept me guessing about where she was
going and I loved it!!

And the good news is that at the end she says there will be more of them.  It's
not just a triology anymore, folks!!

*GET* this book.

Lola
From: pjj@cs.man.ac.uk (Pete Jinks)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Wolfe, "Book of the New Sun"
Date: 12 Aug 92 10:36:02 GMT

scs@lokkur.dexter.mi.us (Steve Simmons) writes:
>"Terminus Est." ... "the dividing line", presumably
>between life and death (or at least, head and shoulders). A more
>accurate translation would be "this is the end."

According to my dictionary, "terminus" means boundary, so both
interpretations would be equally good, and equally applicable.
I thought this was one of the more obvious puns.
Any latin scholars out there ?
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: miles@ms.uky.edu (Stephen D. Grant)
Subject: Re: Death Gate Cycle
    <1992Aug10.211031.17377@brtph560.bnr.ca> <1234@tecsun1.etl.army.mil>
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 00:16:37 GMT
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences

anneb@tecsun1.etl.army.mil (Anne Brink) writes:

>I enjoyed 1-4.  The first three read very nicely as books on their own, and I
>think that they _almost_ could be read in any order.  The fourth (Serpent Mage,
>which I got as soon as my library had it on the shelves) leaves you with the
>cliffhanger leading you into the next three.  I'm tempted to do like Bryan says
>he's planning, and wait until they're all out, but I have a history of getting
>impatient when I see the books actually in print.  Does anyone know what sort
>of release schedule the books are on?  (every 6 months or so, every year or so,
>???)

>I did find that escaped D&D player from another universe in the world of trees
>(for want of a better description for him) a tad annoying (the Wizard with the
>Dragon-- I doubt that that's a spoiler.)


>					-Anne

I have also enjoyed the books. The only other series I started to read by
Weis & Hickman was the _Dark Sword_ Trilogy <I think thats it>.
I didn't finish it. I bought the first book in paperback, and liked it enough
to get the rest in hardback. The second book was a little of a let down,
but the third and fourth more than made up for it. The series seems to be
getting better as they come out. 

The Fizbang <or whatever> character turned me off pretty bad at first. 
I did enjoy the dragon, but hated Fiz's references. It seems the character
comes from a previous series by Weis&Hickman, and seems to be a "pet"
character. Most people that have read the other series, seem to enjoy
him in the Death Gate Cycle.

Steve
to Smaug, LOTR series, and other references totally out of place.

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: tedk@jpl.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Ted Ko)
Subject: Re: Recommendation on Fantasy Epic Novels
Organization: Bellcore
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 13:56:47 GMT

In article <1992Aug11.155108.834@galaxy.gov.bc.ca>, gbrach@galaxy.gov.bc.ca writes:
|> In article <1992Aug11.183543.9425@sqwest.wimsey.bc.ca>, 
|> Sorry, I got the book names confused; they should be:
|>      Book 1)  The Summer Tree
|>      Book 2)  The Wandering Fire
|>      Book 3)  The Darkest Road
|> 


Many spoilers:



|> > 
|> > I really resented reading a series of books which had clearly been
|> > written because the author thought the ending of the Arthur-Guinivere-
|> > Lancelot triangle should be rewritten as a happy menage a trois.
|> > 
|> > Marcy
|> > 
|> Seems to me to be harsh to critize a story because it makes use of characters
|> from anthor myth/legend in a way you do not like.  Especially in this case,
|> where Authur, Guinivere and Lancelot were only supporting characters in a story
|> about 5 travellers and their adventures in Fionavar.  Theresolution of the
|> Authurian legend is well balanced by the tragedy of the other, more central
|> characters.  That is what makes the books memorable to me.
|> 
|> Gabor.
|>                                             

I agree that the Arthurian legend adds rather than subtracts to the story.  I
felt it made a lot of sense to incorporate something as significant as Arthur
legend into a world which was supposedly the basis of all other worlds.

To Marcy:  It seems you can't really say that the whole reason the books were
written was for this "menage a trois".  That trivializes everything in the first
book and all the Earth characters, who are much more important and beautifully 
developed.  Also, if that was the purpose there wouldn't be much to the third
book, eh?


-- 
Ted "Theodore" Ko  			E-Mail: ted@athena.mit.edu
						tedk@ctt.bellcore.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig)
Subject: Re: Vinge on A Fire Upon the Deep
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 19:52:16 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

matt@physics.berkeley.edu:
>...I felt at the time, and still feel, that he was not being
>completely honest with his own premises.
>
>In _Marooned in Realtime_, Vinge argued (convincingly, in my opinion)
>that a Singularity was possible without faster than light travel...

I think you have it backwards.  The premise in AFutD is that there
are zones in which enhanced intelligence is impossible.  The restriction
on ftl travel has nothing to do with the presence/absence of Singularity,
but is a separate plot convenience/device.

-----
Dani Zweig
dani@netcom.com

  The surface of the strange, forbidden planet was roughly textured and green,
  much like cottage cheese gets way after the date on the lid says it is all 
  right to buy it.--Scott Jones

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: puckett@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov (Jim Puckett)
Subject: Re: Go to alt.fan...we don't want you(was Re: rec.arts.sf.written FAQ)
Organization: NASA/MSFC
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 14:14:38 GMT

tittle@ics.uci.edu (Cindy Tittle Moore) writes:
 
<stuff deleted>

>FAQ's are meant to be informational.  I don't think it is arrogant or
>elitist to note those topics which tend to dissolve into flamewars or
>long protracted threads that many others find extremely boring.  I

We already do - we tell folks in the FAQ 'Don't bring up Heinlein's
women or Card's attitude toward homosex (with such good effect that
after a year of reading this group, I still don't know Card's attitude
toward homosex!)

jim p.

-- 
Jim Puckett    NTI    puckett@freedom.msfc.nasa.gov     
Huntsville,AL (205)461-4922  
This life is a test. It is only a test. If it had been a real life, you 
would have been given instructions....