HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: abs0@coos.dartmouth.edu (Kelvin Leung)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why the A600? Some ZEN marketing VooDoo?
Date: 13 Aug 92 01:19:20 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

iank@microsoft.com (Ian Kennedy) writes:

>Why the A600 now? All indications point to a release of new
>video chips (and maybe audio) by the end of the year. Perhaps
>as early as September, but I think not as I expect C= to
>release just more re-hashed old technology at that show.

[...]

>What do you think? Why did C= release the A600?
>-- 
>/* IanK@Microsoft.com		*/
>/* I want my 32bit chip set	*/

I could understand why C= releases the A600.  What I couldn't understand
is why C= releases an 040 3000T a month before the announcement of
new Amigas (supposedly with a new chipset).    

Yours Sincerely,
Kelivn


                                            ____________________________
 __________________________________________/ Undergraduate, Class of 94 \___ 
 ____________________________________________________________/_____\________
| Kelvin     /   Internet: Kelvin.Leung@Dartmouth.edu       ({o   o})       |
|   Leung   /       or     abs0@Coos.Dartmouth.edu        <  #  ^  #  >     | 
|__________/_______________________________________________(vvvvvvvvv)------|
| "Unless someone like you cares a whole |  Aaahhhh!!! It's a beast...      |
|  awful lot, nothing is going to get    |    ... no, no... it's a doll...  |
|  better.  It's not."                   |       ... what is it?            |
|               -- Dr. Seuss (The Lorax) | either way... it's here!!!       |
 ________________________________________^__________________________________
From: peterk@cbmger.de.so.commodore.com (Dr Peter Kittel Germany)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: I'm SICK of Multiple Postings!
Date: 13 Aug 92 15:19:55 GMT
Reply-To: peterk@cbmger.de.so.commodore.com (Dr Peter Kittel Germany)
Organization: Commodore Germany

In article <Mike_Noreen.075k%cave@sweden.eu.net> Mike_Noreen%cave@sweden.eu.net (Mike Noreen) writes:
>Am I the only one who gets annoyed when forced (well, sortof..) to read the
>same messages in two-three conferences?

Well, yes and no. Sure it's waste of bandwidth, but obviously you can't
avoid it. Many have tried this before, but it happens all over again.
There is a way to help you: Try a different newsreader. In the moment
I'm using rn, which shows me all those dupes. But on another noce I have
access to I use nn which recognizes dupes and shows them only once.
Perhaps you should try nn or some other newsreader with this feature.

-- 
Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel  // E-Mail to \\  Only my personal opinions...
Commodore Frankfurt, Germany  \X/ {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmger!peterk
				   or  peterk@public.sub.org
From: gfm@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (George Francis McBay)
Subject: Re: New Machines as of September
Organization: /etc/organization
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 21:31:29 GMT

In article <ZNZcPB2w165w@bluemoon.rn.com> adrake@bluemoon.rn.com (Andy Drake) writes:
>Sorry to crush any A4000 rumors, but as of the September issue of 
>AmigaWorld, Commodore is now selling an '040 A3000T complete with monitor 
>for something like $5999.00 retail US.  On the otherhand, if the AA 
>machine actually do come out later this year, why bring out an ECS '040 
>machine? Hmmm, makes ya wonder.....

	I personally believe that the A4000/1200s (Or whatever they end up
being named) WILL be announced in September... The scary part is: With
a price like that on the A3000/040 just imagine how much the 4000 will cost, 
it will be a total flop. (On the other hand, maybe they have Surface Mounted
it and did some serious cost reduction, for which Commodore will get flamed 
just the same) As far as the "Amiga sucks" debates here :) I, for one,
am very happy with the Amiga line and will be doubly happy if the AA
machines do come out soon, however I don't know how long Amigas will be able
to hold out against the price-wared PC market, PCs are so incredibly cheap
these days, even good ones (if you believe in such a thing :)  Sure, a couple
years ago Amiga has a hugely better price/performance ratio, now I'm afraid
the PCs have it.




Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett)
Subject: Re: CDTV is dead.
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 00:33:45 GMT

In article <mykes.0cnz@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG> mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz) writes:
>> Alright, I'm going to flame this one to hell.  Marc Barrett and
>> respectable, after that last "fiasco", do NOT belong in the same
>> sentence.  The man stretches the truth as faithfully as a damn geyser.
>
>MB definately stretches the truth.  His posts COULD be very good if he
>chose to word them differently - there is a lot of fact in them.  For
>example, his continuously saying that CBM spends 2.2% of profit on R&D
>is correct...

   Actually, that's 2.2% of total sales.  Commodore spends a higher percentage
of their profits on R&D, but measuring investments as a percentage of profits 
is very misleading, as it can make a bad company (which has low profits
precisely because they haven't been investing enough in critical areas) look
good.  

>Amiga programmer of: GRn, MailMinder, Budokan, Beyond Dark Castle, Dark Castle
>Sega Genesis programmer of: Dick Tracy and Marble Madness.
>Mike Schwartz  (ames!zorch!amiga0!mykes or mykes@amiga0.sf-bay.org)
>1124 Fremont Ave.
>Los Altos, CA 94024

---
| Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
--------------------------------------------------
     "Beware the ides of September..."
From: hessmann@unipas.fmi.uni-passau.de (Georg Hessmann)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: where is 1024*768?
Keywords: Domino Card, SVGA
Date: 14 Aug 92 13:21:38 GMT
Organization: University of Passau, Germany

In article <296@mbunix.adsp.sub.org> mario@mbunix.adsp.sub.org (Mario Bayer, ECA008) writes:
>>X-Pert just announced their VGA-like Graphics Card for Amigas with >68020.
>>It contain's an ET 4000, will be programmable and have Workbench support.
>>(I think 68020 is needed for it?)
>
>Anyone how knows why >020 only... (I think the Workbench Screen kludge need it)

Yes, only for the WB. Everything else should work with an 68k too.

[...]
>>But you will call it vaporware, as there is only advertizing but no delivery
>>yet.(september (P-))
>>X-Pert has a really good reputation here in germany, i think the card it is 
>>as finished as the advertizing suggests and will be good.
>>And Price? well about 698,- DM,  that is 440$ !!!!!

I do have the card since some weeks and it works really good.
I work with a 1024x768 70Hz workbench...nice. :)

>This sounds very good... but... is the Graphic-Board supported under AmigaUNIX
>too... (does X-Pert make a driver under AmigaUNIX)

Um, I'm working on it. But I'm not a UNIX expert (in case of kernel and
device drivers), so I can not say when (or if?) it will get ready.

	Georg.

-- 
  hessmann@unipas.fmi.uni-passau.de		(Georg He_mann)
						(Oberer Markt 7/D-8712 Volkach)
From: tinman@agora.uucp (David Tinnyo)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: 21 Rules for c.s.a.a postings
Date: 19 Aug 92 07:41:00 GMT
Organization: Open Communications Forum

In article <1992Aug17.105340.8911@bsu-ucs.uucp> 01ksdavis@bsu-ucs.uucp writes:
>
>		3:Okay, even if you must post one of those XYZ has this, so
>		  it must mean the imminent death of the Amiga, at least keep
>		  XYZ in the same class as an Amiga.  No comparisons to game 
>		  decks, PLEASE!  This is like comparing a lawn mower to a go-
>		  kart.  They both generally travel at the same speeds, but one
>		  is more versatile than the other.

Well I've been agonizing over this, and I MUST know...

Which IS more versatile:  A go-kart or a lawnmower ??????


-- 
** David E. TinNyo **                      ** tinman@agora.rain.com **
"What is called politics is comparatively something so superficial and
 inhuman, that, practically, I have never fairly recognized that it
 concerns me at all." -- Henry David Thoreau
From: campbell@cbmvax.commodore.com (John Campbell - CATS)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Death Becomes Amiga!!
Date: 19 Aug 92 13:32:46 GMT
Reply-To: campbell@cbmvax.commodore.com (John Campbell - CATS)
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA

In article <1992Aug18.143043.1@woods.ulowell.edu> edmondse@woods.ulowell.edu
 writes:

>
>My sincere advice to C=, or any other third party software companies, is to
>somehow get good quality standardized productivity software available for the 
>AMIGA soon.

No offense, but this is easier said than done.  I notice you use the word
"somehow".
 
>
>I hope C= somehow understands the basic fact that noone will choose a computer
>unless there is software available for it.

No arguement.

>... Look at NeXT how come there are
>versions of most major productivity software supporting this machine.

Answer: partly because they choose to pay for them.

>Does it sell better than the Amiga? I don't believe it does (Correct me here
>if I am out in left field). The arguement that there must be X number of
>machines in service before major software developers will port there products
>over just doesn't wash here.

1.  Amiga sells better, but is really competing in a different market (IMHO).

2.  The arguement that X number of machines are necessary for a major vendor
to support a platform is totally factual, and I have heard the arguement from
many of the major PC software houses that everyone mentions.  The only path
around this arguement is a HUGE outlay of money to take away all possible
percieved risk for the development house.  When outlays are prohibitively large,
it becomes very debatable if it makes sense.

>C= must get off its *&*%$ and actively support developement
>of software from the business world, or ---- GAME OVER ----.

What do you think our developer support program is for?  We would like
Amiga developers to produce quality productivity products and become
successful.  We try to help in a number of different ways.  We have even
funded (in full or in part) numerous titles, including the development of
AmigaVision because at the time there were very few developers interested
in an authoring system for the Amiga.

When it comes to the big 3 (wordprocessing, spreadsheets, databases), we
have helped current developers in all three areas, and the products are
improving.

Commodore is a hardware company.  We realize we are dependent upon software
for our success, but we believe that the existing software opportunities
should be taken advantage of by software companies.  In that way everyone
would benefit.
>
>
>Eric Edmonds
>UMASS at Lowell
>Dept of Nuclear Engineering

John Campbell
Director, Commodore Applications and Technical Support (CATS)
From: daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: C= speaks!!! let's spread the words!!!
Date: 12 Aug 92 22:24:59 GMT
Reply-To: daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie)
Distribution: comp
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA

In article <1992Aug6.214156.16169@mpifr-bonn.mpg.de> mlelstv@speckled.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Michael van Elst) writes:

>The Amiga has 4 voices which are arrange as 2 stereo pairs. As I said,
>a stock A500 can play 8 voices with software help.

That's functionally correct, but the nomenclature is a bit off.  Typically,
you refer to an independent D/A as a channel.  Thus, an A500 has four 
8-bit channels with 6-bit volume control, a traditional CD player has
two 16-bit channels (no volume control).  This is a big difference when
compared to hardware synthesizers when you're playing pre-computed data,
such as samples.  With samples, you have an unlimited number of voices
(eg, independent sounds) per channel.  If, instead, you're running some
kind of audio synthesis program on the Amiga, the number of independent
voices available is certainly based on how many can be synthesized and
summed into each available channel in real time. 

More traditional synthesizer devices, such as the SoundBlaster or the SID
chip on the C64 do this differently.  They have programmable sound 
synthesizers, each of which determines a single voice.  No amount of
CPU power in the world can synthesize extra voices from such units (the
C64 and SoundBlaster apparently each have limited direct D/A as well), but
one can help make up for this by supply enough hardware voices to compensate.
Typically, such synthesizers are programmed to deliver a particular sound
by the CPU (the complexity varies by the hardware, the C64's is a simple
ADSR envelope, three voices available), and this sound is continuously
produced until changed by the CPU.  D/A, on the other hand, requires some 
kind of active feed on a constant basis (the Amiga's D/A is driven by a 
DMA channel, so like the synthesis chips, the CPU is only involved when a
sound change is necessary).  If you have enough CPU power, the D/A approach
is much more powerful -- all DSP's work this way.  If you have limited CPU
resources, the synthesizer chip approach (used in virtually all 8-bit
system with any kind of decent sound) is more powerful.  
-- 
Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Amiga 3000) "The Crew That Never Rests"
   {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh      BIX: hazy
	"Work like a horse, drink like a fish"	- Psychefunkapus
From: fheitkamp@desire.wright.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: 020 vs 030
Date: 15 Aug 92 14:11:07 GMT
Organization: Wright State University

In article <AHANSFOR.92Aug13215914@starbird.wpi.edu>, ahansfor@starbird.wpi.edu (Andrew L. Hansford) writes:
> 
> Why should C= put an 030 into baseline machines?  I agree that upper
> end and even middle end machines should have them (in case you want to
> run Unix or Enforcer, or Mungwall.)
> 
> 
> If we don't use an MMU then how about the EC030. Where does the 030
> and EC030 give you an advantage over an 020 in speed if you don't use
> and MMU. 
>
	From what I understand the '030 is several times faster than the 
	'020 on some instructions do to improved design techniques.  From
	this, one would think EC030 would be a better choice.  However, the 
	'020 is still widely used in VME type applications so it must have
	certain advantages over an '030.  The '030 also has a 256 byte
	instruction cache.  The '020 does not.  You could also put a socket
	for a external MMU in an '020 application on the mother board but 
	not use it, just in case someone needs to have an MMU later. (Is this 
	possible?)
 
> 1. data cache (256 bytes)
> 2. burst mode 
> 3. synchronous termination (shorter memory access cycles on 32-bit accesses)
>         (correct me if I'm wrong on this one)
> 
> Also the EC030 and 030 are available up to 50MHz as opposed to 33MHz.
> In addition, a system designed for an EC030 and a regular 030 could be
> almost the same.  So a machine with no mmu could be cheaper than a
> machine with mmu but the system busses could be virtually the same.
> (If the CPU were socketed you could even have something were you
> ploped in a 030 for an EC030.)
> 
> Prices.  These were quotes from Motorola that I got today.
> Unfortunately these are small quantity quotes (hundreds of units) but
> the salesperson said the price should scale.
> 
> 020   $55
> EC030 $60
> 030   $145
> EC040 $165
> 
> I hope that C= would go with at least an EC030 given this information.
> Question to those who know, is there a reason to take the 020 over an
> EC030.
>  
> -- Andrew Hansford
>    ahansfor@wpi.wpi.edu
> 
> 
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: peterk@cbmger.de.so.commodore.com (Dr Peter Kittel Germany)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: ***** V39+/WB 3.0 SPECIFICATIONS *****
Date: 11 Aug 92 06:35:17 GMT
Reply-To: peterk@cbmger.de.so.commodore.com (Dr Peter Kittel Germany)
Organization: Commodore Germany

In article <1992Aug10.104900.3979@ida.liu.se> d90pahme@odalix.ida.liu.se (Pahl Melin) writes:
>
>I only know from an article in a German Amiga paper, 

Now *if* you refer to Amiga Special: FORGET IT! They are the Marc Barrett
of the german magazine scene and equally "reliable" :-(.

-- 
Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel  // E-Mail to \\  Only my personal opinions...
Commodore Frankfurt, Germany  \X/ {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmger!peterk
				   or  peterk@public.sub.org
Xref: sparky comp.sys.amiga.advocacy:22179 comp.sys.amiga.misc:12961
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 13:53:02 EDT
From: <TEW105@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: Re: CDTV is dead.
 <1992Aug17.191403.13185@uwm.edu> <1992Aug22.042013.16635@kas.helios.mn.org>

In article <1992Aug22.042013.16635@kas.helios.mn.org>, rhealey@kas.helios.mn.org
(Rob Healey) says:
>
>        MultiMedia presentations on IBM "Ultimedia" systems, various Windows
>        3.1 setups and Mac setups using integrated voice, video and CD-ROM. I
>        have yet to see an Amiga 3000 with stock 2.04 do anything even
>remotely
>        close to what the other systems can do. It can do toaster stuff and
>        some animations but that's it. Toaster+anims != MultiMedia.
>
        Have you ever seen an AmigaVision presentation?  I saw one at a
        high school I was student teaching at and it was using other
        media besides the computer.
>        Where are the programs to access the gigabytes of CD-ROM disks? The
>        OS certainly doesn't have support for viewing or retrieving data
>        from CD-ROM. And the drivers that do exist just access raw data.
>
         reading from CD-ROM != MultiMedia.  MultiMedia means a
         using various media.  Using AmigaVision the Amiga can easily
         control laser disk players, slide projectors, etc.
>        CDTV doesn't have the horse power for business multimedia, it's
>        The 3000T '040 ad in byte this month was sad because it showed
>        how far behind the times Amiga really is. On one page you
>        had the 3000T '040 for $5998.00. 5 pages later you have a DELL
>        33Mhz 486 system that can do more for $2699.00. It's sad really
         Are you comparing MSR and actual selling price?  I don't know
         off hand how much the 3000T '040 sells for but I bet its less
         than $5998.00.
>        Reality fault, brittle Amiga Universe falling apart... Let's at
>        least make REMOTELY realistic statements here eh?
         Yes, let's.
+L8R+                                +Every time I try to pick it up its like
HonuS  internet: TEW105@psuvm.psu.edu|falling sands, as fast as I pick it up it
+---+  bitnet:   TEW105@psuvm        |runs away through my clutching hands...
Disclaimer: +-Look Ma, only 5 lines--+                            -The Cure
  The big wigs at PSU wish they could come up with opinions as good as mine!
From: bruce@zuhause.MN.ORG (Bruce Albrecht)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re:   Len Stys <-> Jeff Young? The same person? Secret lovers?
Date: 19 Aug 92 04:56:13 GMT
Organization: Society to Stamp Out Bogus Organizations

In article <1992Aug16.063804.1782@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett) writes:
>   They may also have successfully gotten into UNIX workstations six years
>before the development of the A3000UX.  I do not remember all of the details,
>but Commodore had a Z8000-based UNIX system around 1985 with a nice 800x600
>monochrome display, with a price tag of around $3500 (cheap for workstations
>with such resolutions at that time).  I also remember that the first litigation
>between Commodore and Atari right after Jack Tramiel took over Atari involved
>this workstation and not the Amiga (as is commonly believed).  Were it not
>for the Amiga, Commodore might have put more marketing and development into
>this system.

And it's probably a very good thing that they didn't waste a lot of time and
effort on it.  There were a few Z8000 based Unix boxes developed by other
companies, and all of them were relatively unsuccessful.  Part of the problem
was that the Z8000 was not a particularly great CPU design (just OK), and was
pretty much an orphan when Zilog lost steam (not unlike the NS 16032 based
machines).  Even in 1985, it was pretty clear that the Z8000 was not going to
amount to very much.  I wish you would think before trying to second guess 
Commodore's decisions, Marc.
--
bruce@zuhause.mn.org
Youth is wasted on the young.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: 020 vs 030
From: fheitkamp@desire.wright.edu
Date: 19 Aug 92 07:36:24 EST
Organization: Wright State University 

In article <1992Aug18.235421.22662@cheshire.oxy.edu>, leavitt@cheshire.oxy.edu (Thomas VanNess Leavitt) writes:
> EC030 costs $5 more than '020... that points up one major advantage... as
> long as the CPU is socketed, the machine is upgradeable at a later point.

	'020 and '030 require a different socket.  An upgrade will require
	an adapter board.  It could be relatively cheap, but not a simply
	remove one chip and put in another.

	Fred
> 
> Thom
> 
> What performance comparison of an EC040 vs. an '030?
> 
> Thom
>
From: barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: ** NEW AMIGAS **
Date: 21 Aug 92 00:44:39 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.1992Aug21.004439.24674
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA

In article <u894776.714318756@bruny> u894776@bruny.cc.utas.edu.au (Dream On) writes:
>[I heard these rumours on the net - read at own peril]
>
>A600	68000+ECS+KS3.0		$199 US
>A800	68020+AA+KS3.0		$399 US
>A1000jr	68020+AA+KS3.0+HD	$650 US
>A3400	68030+AA+KS3.0+HD	???? US

   Wishful thinking, IMO.  Consider that Commodore still has not lowered the
price on the cheapest of the A3000 systems (the A3000/16-40) to below $1500
yet, even though the production and development costs of the ECS have been
long since paid for.  I have no inside information on the prices of the new
systems, but I personally think the initial list prices on the new systems 
will be a bit on the high side, so as to more quickly pay development costs
of the new systems and the AA chipset.  Remember that the AA chipset required
the construction of a whole new fabrication facility, for the first time in
Commodore's history -- even the A1000 did not require that a new silicon 
fabrication facility be built.  So the sunk costs on the AA chipset (costs
already incurred) will be higher than for any Amiga ever designed previously,
the A1000 included.

>Any ideas on the correctness of this information?
>Obviously from the leaked specs on AA, its not that great!  But at these
>prices who would complain!

   Commodore is keeping the prices of the new systems pretty tightly held, 
so I would take any rumors before their release with a big grain of salt.

---
| Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
--------------------------------------------------
   Coming soon to a theatre near you: "Honey, I Shrunk the Sales!", 
   starring George Burns as Irving Gould.