HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: coren@osf.org (Robert Coren)
Subject: Re: Dietrich, Madonna, etc.
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 21:33:11 GMT

In article <1b4mkiINNb3t@mizar.usc.edu>, adolphso@mizar.usc.edu
(adolphson) takes the trouble to correct himself:

> In article <1b4m1oINNaq7@mizar.usc.edu> 
> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) exclaimed:
> 
> > You're so hot under the color, dear!
> 
> Collar.

I rather liked it the way it was.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: My Bad Mouth
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 92 21:29:43 GMT


In article <1992Oct16.194330.15224@gordian.com>
mike@gordian.com (Michael A.  Thomas) writes:

>Yes, but he has been severly punished by Grandma which
>counts nonetheless. Her riding crop is worth 10 flames (Ouch!).

Mike, this simply won't do.  We Kabalistas do *not* mention
KKruella in front of the children, it's bad for Family
Values (besides, you big ninny, it's Grandmama)!  GKK, as an
official deputy, I recommend some corrective action for the
Thomas unit.

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
From: ry@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (ryerson.schwark)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: de-muffining
Date: 16 Oct 92 16:46:18 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbnewsl.1992Oct16.164618.2672
Organization: UNIX System Laboratories, Summit, NJ

In article <1992Oct16.140238.19480@wam.umd.edu> lovegod@wam.umd.edu (Donald Andrew Agarrat) writes:
>In article <1992Oct16.134829.24015@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> ry@cbnewsl.cb.att.com  
>(ryerson.schwark) writes:
>
>} In article <1992Oct16.041059.11386@sol.UVic.CA> dcunning@engr.UVic.CA writes:
>} >- I'm 18 years old, still a virgin and not terribly sure about myself.
>} 
>} The only people who are very sure of themselves at this age are the ones
>} who are wrong.
>
>Ry, I don't think that is necessarily so ... How could you know all the details  
>of every 18 year old?  

Because I'm God.  That's why.

Elizabeth Schwark
ry@usl.com
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rogerk@queernet.org (Roger B.A. Klorese)
Subject: Getting Together in NYC
Organization: QueerNet
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 16:32:27 GMT

Has anyone made any plans for us to see y'all next weekend
yet?  If not, I'd like to suggest Saturday brunch, if possible.
Let me know via e-mail...
-- 
ROGER B.A. KLORESE                                              +1 415 ALL-ARFF
rogerk@unpc.QueerNet.ORG                 {ames,decwrl,pyramid}!mips!unpc!rogerk
"Normal is not something to aspire to, it's something to get away from."
                                                                   -- J. Foster
From: ST402341@brownvm.brown.edu (Gary Byma)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Why you people alienate so many...
Date: 15 Oct 92 15:50:56 GMT
Organization: Brown University - Providence, Rhode Island  USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: brownvm.brown.edu
News-Software: BNN via BNN_POST v1.0 beta

In article <thaaang.719142199@cwis>, thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance)
said:
>
>>  I don't remember John getting roasted. He may have otherwise ended up
>>on the motss.con.dim.sum menu instead of just being disgusted at the
>>thought of canablism.
>
>No, actually, I *was* roasted; deserved it, too. Twice, once because I
>was talking about my feminine mythology class and sounded sexist, and
>once because I was talking about my friend Maggie and sounded internally
>homophobic (I probably was a little). Both got better as I explained my
>position more concisely and thought about what the other people were
>saying, but I was pretty ill after seeing my first few flames.
>
>My mistake was I saw the casual banter going on around here and assumed
>I could just jump right in; that's not true. This is like any other
>social situation in a way; it's a group of people, and you can't just
>*POOF!!!* be an accepted member. If you wade in unannounced, people's
>toes will get stepped on. Cabal? Sure, whatever you want to call it.
>But it's not wrong, it's just the way people work. (Of course, I'm
>saying this from the perspective of someone who's been through all of
>that and emerged okay...)
>
>--
>John Dorrance * Alleged Homosexual/Shameless Hussy * thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu
>
My first post to soc.motss was in response to Jeff Dauber's post on
An Exercise of Liberal Heterosexuals in which I took exception to
some of his suggestions. Rather than flaming me, Jeff responded to me
in e-mail and clarified his position, and perhaps also conceding some
of my points. He also welcomed me to the net. I can't imagine whether
I would have stayed had I received Matt's welcome, say, if I had
disagreed with Steve Dyer or, heaven forfend, Melinda Shore. Later,
I disagreed with Jess Anderson, and again, was not blasted. I believe
it is possible to enter the net discussion without ruffling feathers
or getting one's own feathers singed. I want to thank both Jeff
and Jess for their part in my ongoing participation on soc.motss.
From: Minotaur@cup.portal.com (Frank - Swilling)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Anagram program
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 92 18:19:45 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1992Oct12.155204.14037@macc.wisc.edu>
  <1992Oct12.181600.20654@macc.wisc.edu> <manz.718957072@ee.ualberta.ca>

Brett Manz presses his joss:

>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>Definition of joss...
>joss \'ja:s, 'jo.s\ n [pidgin E, fr. Pg deus god, fr. L - more at DEITY] :
>   a Chinese idol or cult image
>----------------------------------------------------------------------

In James Clavell's novels, "joss" is a Japanese word for "luck".

Frank
Minotaur@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Subject: Re: Dietrich, Madonna, etc.
Organization: insert anything here
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 13:40:47 GMT

mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon) writes:
>adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) >wrote:

>> More cultural icons from the 1800s:

>[If ever there was an opportunity to bring up Jez *e* bel's age...]

	Oh are you ageist as well?  No surprise there.


>>   Dickens          Wild Bill Hickock   P.T. Barnum
>>   Billy the Kid    Emily Dickenson     The Elephant Man
>>   Whitman          John Keats          Wagner
>>   Lincoln          The Shelleys        Oscar Wilde
>>   Queen Victoria   Lord Byron          Lewis Carroll
>>   Mark Twain       Jack the Ripper     Tchaikovsky
>>   Tom Thumb        Jesse James         The Booths
>> Oh yes, there are some painters, too.

>Many, many of these figures would be unrecognized if a picture 
>thereof were to be flashed on a screen.  Bear in mind, the original
>*religious* icons (of which you have already spoken, Dolphie) 
>relied upon people recognizing a picture of a saint, and thereby
>knowing immediately what that saint was about.  The saint's image
>symbolized compassion, or strength, or whatever.  

	BUZZ!  Oh well thank you for playing.

	Yes on the symbolism part, 101% no on the "portrait
recognition part.  

	The original icons weren't portraits per se, at least not
insofar as that the rendering of the person was in anyway accruate.
This is obvious in art if one looks at portraits of Christ
or the Madonna (the genuine one, not the ex-hooker cum pop-star)
both over time and with respect to the culture/geography/anthropology/
sociology of the artist or the person who commissioned the artwork.
Same is true of most of the original icons.

>Of the above, many are important historical figures.  But what
>do they symbolize?  

>specific cowboys?  Only Reagan...  Queen Victoria may be an
>icon in the Isles.  Wagner is definitely an icon in Israel.
>The rest are famous people who may have been icons in their
>time - in some cases I wouldn't go that far (the Romantic Poets,
>for example).  But now, fame has faded and their status as
>icons is very, very dubious.

	Did you have a head injury as a young child or did
you practice at this?  No, don't bother to react, I really don't care.
Do you have a reference for this ridiculous statement or
are we supposed to take your word for it?  The Melmonocentric
universe must be very very dull.

BBC
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Tired and Impatient (was Re: Dietrich, Madonna, etc.)
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 20:25:41 GMT


In article <ldrejeINNiv3@spim.mti.sgi.com>
dauber@tattoo.mti.sgi.com (Jeff Dauber) writes:

>In article <1992Oct15.181431.18376@macc.wisc.edu>,
anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:

>Not at all.  I know I am pompous.  At least, however, I am not 
>condescending.  Perhaps that is the term I meant....

I think point of view might something to do with it.

>We all know you reread your own posts...  Do you see
>yourself looking down your nose at the people who you are
>speaking to?

Well now, do "we all" think that's a Terrible Thing,
rereading one's own posts.  After all, they are presented
at least twice, once during the writing and checking
over, again when they appear (surely they no have no less
right to do so?) in the newsgroup I'm reading.  

I think the only looking down my nose I do is because that's
where my glasses are.  I really don't have much choice,
either, at this exact moment, since straight out from my
nose is the join of the ceiling and the wall.  Lying down on
the job, as it were.

I'm sure I am (or seem, which is close enough to the same
thing) on occasion condescending.  If my saying that
relieves any worries you may have about it, all to the good.
Since you seem to be having a fit of Doing Good, or at least
conceptual housecleaning, sweeping up dusty cabalistas and
all that trash, there are surely more fit objects for your
attention than that particular foible of mine, such as it
is.

I know I'm not nearly good enough, I am quite sure indeed
that you are not the only one who would have me be better.
But the sun goes up and the sun goes down, and in the cosmic
scheme of things, my behavior is not much, one way or the
other.  For diversity's sake, if no other.

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: norris@infonode.ingr.com (Jeff Norris)
Subject: Re: hospitality, peanut butter, & pickles
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 18:33:21 GMT

jns@elea.umd.edu (J. N. Shaumeyer) writes:
>By the way, Huntsville turns out to be
>Happy Bear-Hunting Grounds; I plan a fuller
>report elsewhere as soon as time permits
>[yeah--we've heard *that* before].  Anyway,
>there was one specimen to be cherished,
>a beard with fine gradation of color and
>proudly descending at least 16" from the
>wearer's chin.  I thought of you. [George Madison]

Do tell!  Does he live here or was he visiting?  
Was he in leather or did he have a gun rack in his pickup?
16"!  Really?  By my calculation thats about navel level, 
which might prove to be an interesting place to start, umm,
exploring.

-jeff
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon)
Subject: Re: Culture (was Re: Ah, Fashion.)
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 23:09:58 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.
Followup-To: soc.motss

In a somewhat mellower vein, 

In article <CARLTON.92Oct7172343@scws1.harvard.edu>,
carlton@scws1.harvard.edu (david carlton) wrote:
> 
> [dolphie wrote]
> >[mr. carlton] wrote
> 
> >> I'm with Nelson on this one.  I'd heard of her [Marlene
> >> Dietrich] before a few months ago, but not before a couple 
> >> of years ago (when I saw _Blue Angel_ for a class of mine) 
> >> (Should there be a "The" in that title?), 
> 
> > Yes, there should be.  Did you like the film, by the way?
> 
> Yes, I did.  I've seen films that I liked a lot more, but I thought
> that it was pretty good.  I got the feeling that I would have liked it
> a lot more if I had lived when it was made, though.  Or at least I
> felt distanced from what was going on for some reason; it may have
> been as much that it wasn't American or British as the time
> difference.  I don't remember it and my feelings about it clearly
> enough to be sure.

I have had very much the same reaction, not only to Dietrich's films,
but to movies of that period in general.  I do not believe it is a
function of nationality.  Modern foreign films have a contemporary
feel.  I, at least, can relate to them in the present.  But I have
always found it difficult to separate the fact that a movie is 
"A Classic" from appreciation of the movie.  In other words, I
view it as "A Classic" more than as a movie.  Often the pacing feels
sluggish, the dialog quaint, the angles conservative, the costumes
out of date, black and white photography intrudes, and - in general -
the whole movie serves more as a window into the past (valuable in
it's own right) than as a form of 'entertainment.'

And as to the last of Mr. Carlton's sentences:  "I don't remember it
and my feelings about it clear enough to be sure."  This may be
dismissed by The Other as irrelevant; however, it is difficult to
imagine an icon, the image of which does not create feelings 
sufficient to remember.  Were Dietrich an icon today, the statement
would not have been written.  The feelings would be easily 
remembered - be they positive or negative.  

Melmothra, ACC
From: his@the-temple.East.Sun.COM (Howard Solomon - SunExpress Support Engineer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: WARNING: Stealth African Marauding soc.motss
Date: 15 Oct 92 18:06:50 GMT
Reply-To: his@the-temple.East.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems
NNTP-Posting-Host: the-temple.east.sun.com

In article 719111288@cwis, thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance) writes:
>
>I *am* gentile, so I can't say this
>with authority, but I'd guess (and please tell me if I'm wrong) that
>Jews are no longer an oppressed class, really; they've been able to
>gain positions of power in society and have gotten integrated so well
>that I, myself, have difficulty looking around and picking out the
>Jews in the mix (in fact, it's never really occured to me to do so,
>and I was never really positive that I *wasn't* a Jew until the subject
>came up because it concerned be so little)

John:

My first reply went to the great black hole of the internet, so I'm trying 
again.  this reply will likely be shorter anyway.  I am astonished that anyone 
would say oppression of Jews is over.  Sure, it is easier to get a job than in 
the 50s when specific denial of opportunity was more rampant, but this is far 
from over.  I would not even consider living in most of this country due to 
anti-Semitic prejudice (mostly in the South and Midwest).  I had to explain to 
FRIENDS in high school that Jews did not have horns and do not use the blood of 
Christian babies to make Passove matzoh.  This was in the 1980s!!  These
prejudices likely date to the middle ages.  Synagogue desecrations are way
up in the last 10 years.  There are people trying to rewrite history and say 
that the Jews concocted the Holocaust as a lie for sympathy.  In Eastern 
Europe, it is especially bad.  In the old Soviet Union, Jews are blamed for 
the spread of communism AND its defeat!  Yes, most Jews can hide if they want 
to.  But weren't you the one who wants the freedom to be a flambouyant queen?  
And saying that the subject of Judaism or religion does not concern you is as 
bad as people who say that the subject of color does not concern them.  Right?

>
>John, amazed that a group of queers cannot understand this shit.

Please be sure that you fully understand before blasting away.  Clearly 
much of this shit managed to sneak past you as well.

>
>--
>John Dorrance * Alleged Homosexual/Shameless Hussy * thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu
>
>			Dark. Handsome. 6 feet tall.
>		  31 flavors? I believe he's got 'em all!


Howard

PS To all you size queens out there... are my lines short enough now?

---
========================================================================
Howard I. Solomon			|ELECTION '92
Software Support Engineer, SunExpress	|Hold your nose and vote for Bill!
his@east.sun.com			|
=========================================================================
From: mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: M A D O N N A
Date: 12 Oct 92 20:53:03 GMT
Followup-To: soc.motss
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.

In article <0azzs0j@rpi.edu>, buckmr@vccsouth05.its.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
wrote:

> But I'm not saying that MADONNA is not more important than whoever the next
> President of the United States-- perish the thought!

Specifically, no.  It would be silly.  However, the thread is really 
about more than Madonna.  As are the other threads where she has been
a central topic.  The woman Madonna is interesting.  But the cultural
force she represents - or has wrapped around her finger - is more than
interesting.  And *it* is more important than this farce of an 
election.  Indeed, much that makes the election a farce parallels
what has made Madonna, in my view, an icon.  (As an aside, I would
rate Madonna's savvy higher - *much* higher - than that of our two
Presidential candidates combined).

Contrary to popular opinion, I am not thrilled with the reduction of
cultural to an MTV soundbite.  Where the person's entire being is
honestly portrayed as an MTV soudbite - as is the case with Madonna -
I have no problem.  More power to them.  Where the person is running
for the office of President, I have a problem.  In national politics,
we could use a lot more of Perot's half-hour informercials and a lot
less of the crap coming out of both 'major' parties.  Perot has a 
knack for manipulating statistics.  That's fine.  At least he's 
talking about statistics.  At least he's talking about the economy.
There was a political cartoon - the cartoonist thinking himself 
*very* clever, I'm sure - where Bush and Clinton both speak one
word:  Trust and Change respectivley.  Perot is ridiculed for going
on and on.  

When we're talking about the future of the nation, perhaps *one* word
is not sufficient?

Perot, I think, would not make for a very fine President.  But I
do wish some elements of his campaign would be mirrored by the 
others.  

Both Bush and Clinton are *pretending* to be Madonna - or like her. 
They're going for short, attention getting orgasms of negative
political advertising.  I prefer it if those seeking to run the
nation leave the short, attention getting orgasms to people who 
are both better at it, and who make no claim to be anything other
than what they are.


Melmothra, ACC
From: jbaron@dirac.ssc.gov (Jeff Baron)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Intolerance?
Date: 15 Oct 92 21:48:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: sunova.1992Oct15.214823.9539
Reply-To: jbaron@dirac.ssc.gov (Jeff Baron)
Organization: Superconducting Super Collider Lab


Jess Anderson writes:

- I have nothing against insult.  But to call others out for
- doing it when you're in the midst of doing it yourself seems
- more than a slight excess of self-righteous, doesn't it?

Does this mean that one who has a belief in tolerance for all,
but has no tolerance for intolerant people is, him or herself,
a hypocrite?  If one has tolerance for the intolerant, does
that make him or her a fool?

Jeff
From: stevenso@Apple.COM (David Stevenson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Anagram program
Date: 16 Oct 92 17:08:12 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) asks:
>
>In article <1468@dosbears> drp@dosbears.uucp writes:
>
>>BTW, the OED 2nd edition is out on CD-ROM now.  It's supposed
>>to have very good search procedures, in addition to all the words
>>and definitions of the printed version. Of course, it costs $895....
>
>Can you tell some more about this.

Although I am not drp, I can offer a bit of information:
over half a million words defined; more than 2.4 million illustrative quotations
IBM Version (Windows application) ISBN 0-19-861260-5
Macintosh version due "early 1993"
May be ordered by phone:  212/679-7300 ext. 7370 or 7127 with credit card

Oxford University Press
200 Madison Avenue
New York, NY 10016
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Further Butchification
Date: 9 Oct 92 15:56:42 GMT
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison


In article <1992Oct9.150923.23624@macc.wisc.edu>
anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:

>Btw, I thought it was 52 peas; 57 is flavors, Heinz.

Jack Hamilton or Roger Philips, sticklers for such things
both, will surely jump me if I fail to correct myself: 57
*varieties*.  Flavors is 31.

<> And if you all stopped listening to me, well then I'd just
<> have to skulk somewhere  else.
<> -- Matthew Melmon (mcmelmon@aruba.apple.com)
<> I say we give it a try.
<> -- Greg Parkinson (glp@fig.citib.com)
-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
From: mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Mike Reaser)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Fear of Success (was Re: Oregon poll)
Date: 7 Oct 92 18:52:18 GMT
Article-I.D.: hpuerca.BvrLr7.BtM
Organization: a stone mountain of Kudzu

In <BvrGH7.JyL@scd.hp.com> mdrayton@sr.hp.com (Mike Drayton) writes:

>Nelson Minar (nelson@reed.edu) wrote:
>> 
>> I won't lighten up as long as my kindred are being firebombed for
>> being queer. I won't "grok wellness" as long as people politely
>> tolerate shit like the OCA.
>>                 __
>This polite tolerance of shit like the OCA seems to be alive and
>well among a disturbing number of my peers at various HP sites, 
>as reflected by postings on our internal newsgroup.

>It's mostly couched in terms of "a better environment for my
>children, though I reject the witch-hung mentality", "homosexuals
>have above-average earning capacity already, and 'way too much
>political power", and our old friend "AIDS is g*d's punishment..."
>Although these people are at sites other than my own, I feel like
>these people are part of my family, and I get angry in the same
>way.  I don't know if my anger makes my responses ineffective, but
>I can't help but respond to this stuff. 


Rest assured, Mike, there are others in "the family" trying to respond
to the same threads.  I try to keep my head, but sometimes I feel like
Julia Sugarbaker with the afterburners goin'.

(If you ever hear me speak, you'll understand -- when I'm "fired up"
my accent is something of a cross between Scarlett O'Hara and Jimmy
Carter :-).

Seriously, the OCA scares the daylights out of me, too.  Remember, I
not only live in the same state but the same city as Hardwick (as in
vs. Bowers :-( ).  We've had our fair share of gay bashings, murders, and
other assorted hate crimes, and the thought of them being "officially
sanctioned" makes me want to run for the hills.


>Mike Drayton      mdrayton@sr.hp.com       Hewlett-Packard Co.
>                                           Santa Rosa, California


=======================================================================
 Mike Reaser, Hewlett-Packard N. Amer. Response Center - Atlanta
 Internet:  mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com
 NBCS: B4 f w g+ k s-               I barely speak for myself, so
 #include <standard.disclaimer>       don't make me speak for HP
=======================================================================