HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: john@jlc.mv.com (John Leslie)
Subject: Re: Programming language evaluation criteria
Followup-To: comp.edu 
Organization: John Leslie Consulting, Milford NH
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 01:12:34 GMT

jhowatt@eeyore.stcloud.msus.edu (Jim Howatt) writes:

> I'm teaching a comparative programming languages class next quarter using
> Sebesta's second edition as the primary text.

   I've never read Sebesta, first or second; and frankly I'm not about to
drop things to read it.  If Jim needs responses particular to it, he'd
best post some specifics.

> In the first chapter he lists several language selection/evaluation
> criteria; but the list "feels" uncomfortably incomplete and subjective.

   In the real world, the list of criteria has one item -- politics.

> In view of the flame wars that we often see among proponents of
> different languages, I'd like to present my students with a set of
> reasonably objective criteria for selecting a language for a given task.

   Why?

> I've already been thru a half-dozen programming language texts and many
> articles, but think that there must be more criteria to consider, especially 
> from practitioners who've had to evaluate and select languages for real
> projects.

   I've seen literally hundreds of criteria, most often generated after
the fact to justify a (usually reasonable) choice already made.  I think
such a list is nearly useless, unless it has stood the fire of flame-wars
on the Net.  I _would_ welcome some submissions, open to flaming, because 
we _might_ be ready to reach consensus on a few criteria...

> I'd appreciate any insight and pointers to insight that you may have.

   I really think you're barking up the wrong tree.  The first thing a
course on comparative languages should teach is that most algorithms can
be programmed in any of them.  The point _shouldn't_ be that Algorithm A
is best programmed in Language L; rather students should get a feeling
for tradeoffs -- Language Q may not be ideal for Algorithm A, but the
penalty is in the neighborhood of H hours, which might be made up elsewhere
in the project.

   Students should leave your course with a feeling that most times the
savings from choosing the right language are less than the time they'd
spend fighting the political battle to use it.

John Leslie <john@jlc.mv.com>

PS: I've set followup to comp.edu, where I think the discussion belongs.
Newsgroups: comp.edu
From: cameron@cs.sfu.ca (Rob Cameron)
Subject: Re: CS Dissertation Abstract ftp site?
Organization: CSS, Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 14:53:35 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.233015.1236@altair.selu.edu> T. F. Higginbotham writes:
>Does anyone maintain an anonymous ftp site for the
>dissertation abstracts in Computer Science?  Or 
>anything like it.
>
There is nothing for dissertation abstracts per se.  Some sites maintain
on-line lists of their technical report abstracts; theses are sometimes
also included.  Rik Harris of Monash University has a partial database
of CS technical report abstracts at daneel.rdt.monash.edu.au (anonymous ftp).
-- 
Rob Cameron                               cameron@cs.sfu.ca
School of Computing Science
Simon Fraser University
Burnaby, B.C.  V5A 1S6
Xref: sparky comp.edu:2209 comp.lang.misc:4051 comp.software-eng:5020
From: g_harrison@vger.nsu.edu (George C. Harrison, Norfolk State University)
Newsgroups: comp.edu,comp.lang.misc,comp.software-eng
Subject: Re: Programming language evaluation criteria
Date: 16 Dec 92 05:30:40 EDT
Distribution: world

In article <1992Dec12.091818.1847@msus1.msus.edu>, jhowatt@eeyore.stcloud.msus.edu (Jim Howatt) writes:
> I'm teaching a comparative programming languages class next quarter using
> Sebesta's second edition as the primary text.  In the first chapter he lists
> several language selection/evaluation criteria; but the list "feels"
> uncomfortably incomplete and subjective.  In view of the flame wars that we
> often see among proponents of different languages, I'd like to present my
> students with a set of reasonably objective criteria for selecting a 
> language for a given task.

..
> Dr. James W. (Jim) Howatt
> Department of Computer Science
> 139 Engineering and Computing Center
> St. Cloud State University

   Objective criteria often have little to do with an implementation choice;
often the reasons for selecting the language are subjective.  Anyway, here's my
2 cents:

1.  Is the language appropriate to the application?
2.  Availability of compilers/support tools...?
3.  Cost of #2...?
4.  Ease of learning...?
5.  Current experience of programmers...?
6.  Does the language support your disign style:  Object Oriented, Top-Down,
    Abstract Data Types, etc.  (and mixes thereof)?
7.  Does the customer DEMAND that a certain language be used?
8.  Maintainability support of the code...?
9.  Speed and Size of final executable (very compiler-dependent)...?
10. Do the language's constructs fit the design? 

There are many others, but the bottom line is that the "quality" of a language
is often application-experience dependent.  Perhaps some criteria build around
the "style" of the COnstructive COst MOdel (COCOMO) in software engineering
might be an interesting way of evaluating a language.

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| George C. Harrison            | PHONE : (804) 683-8654  | "Ada Spoken Here"|
| Professor of Computer Science | FAX   : (804) 683-9229  +------------------+
| Norfolk State University      | g_harrison@vger.nsu.edu |                  |
| 2401 Corprew Avenue           +-------------------------+                  |
| Norfolk VA 23504              | loop exit when RE_TIRED; end loop;         |
+-------------------------------+--------------------------------------------+
From: randy@ve6bc.ampr.ab.ca (Randy Pointkoski)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip
Subject: Wanted:SPARC (or Bugd.look-a-like)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 03:15:17 GMT
Organization: compression technologies

we are setting up a test of data compression equipment and we need
something SPARC'y to load down the link

-- 


Randy J. Pointkoski P.Eng.                       tel: (403) 437-5961
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada                        fax: (403) 436-1686
From: ric@updike..sri.com (Richard Steinberger)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip
Subject: Multiport repeaters and collision propagation
Date: 11 Dec 92 16:53:07 GMT


	I am working with a hardware networking engineer who is helping
me figure out why packets appear to be dropped when they are
transmitted between a SUN fileserver in one building and a client
SUN in another.  Between the buildings are a 2-port Xerox repeater,
a Codenoll multiport fiber optic star and a TCL multiport repeater.
Both Suns are connected to Thicknet on ports of a multiport
transceiver.

	He claims that it is not uncommon for multiport repeaters
and even transceivers to NOT propagate collision signals to
nodes on the repeater where the collision did not occur.  In other
words,  he says that some multiport devices isolate collision signals
to the branch where they occur.  Can anyone confirm such behavior?
If this is indeed happening, can it not cause problems if a computer
a node or more away is unaware of a lost packet(s) it transmitted.  A 
timeout would need to occur and a retransmission request sent?

	The symptoms we have seen are very long file transfer times
(via NFS) and slow interactive response on X terminals on machines
in a different building from the fileserver (and X client machine).

	Any comments, suggestions or recommendations would be 
appreciated.  Thank you.

regards,

	ric steinberger
	ric@updike.sri.com

Xref: sparky comp.protocols.tcp-ip:5630 comp.dcom.modems:18162
From: jma@beach.cis.ufl.edu (John 'Vlad' Adams)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip,comp.dcom.modems
Subject: Re: CSU/DSU that will accept V.25bis dialing commands?
Date: 16 Dec 92 02:22:09 GMT
Followup-To: comp.protocols.tcp-ip
Organization: Univ. of Florida CIS Dept.

Did jessea@u013.me.vp.com really type:
}  Anyone know of any CSU/DSUs that will accept V.25bis dialing commands?
}  We'd like to use switched digital lines between our locations, but our
}  routers (Telebit Netblazers) will only use V.25bis for dialing.  Anyone
}  know of such an animal?

Have you looked at the DataComm 500C/DBU-A?  We are using one of these
modems on a Wilten DDS and it has been a solid performer since
installed a month ago.

According to the manual it handles both the AT and V.25bis command
sets.

The company is General DataComm Inc.  Middlebury, Connecticut
06762-1299.
Their customer service number is 203-598-7526 between 0815 and 1700
EST.
-- 
Who:    John 'Vlad' Adams (squig) Scott Thurston Downtrodder III
Where:  jma@cis.ufl.edu     -or-      jadams@coral.senod.uwf.edu
Why:    But I was lonley, I was lost without my little black box
BBS:    The Beachside 1.904.492.2305 Pagan/Occult/Fido/IBM/Amiga
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip
From: wayne@kean.ucs.mun.ca
Subject: Re: PCS WITH DUPLICATE TCP ADDRESSES
Organization: Memorial University. St.John's Nfld, Canada
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 12:11:07 GMT

In article <1992Dec19.135454.548@fallst>, tkevans@fallst (Tim Evans) writes:
> wayne@kean.ucs.mun.ca writes:
> 
>>My question is " Is there a way to prevent a pc from accessing the network 
>>if there is already a pc on the network at that moment with the same tcp 
>>address as the one attempting access ?
> 
> If kermit supports use of 'bootp' (I don't know if it does), you can
> use it to control IP addresses from a central server.  This works on
> a real network.  You can get UNIX bootp from CMU.
> -- 
> UUCP:		{rutgers|ames|uunet}!mimsy!wb3ffv!fallst!tkevans
> INTERNET:	tkevans%fallst@wb3ffv.ampr.org
> Tim Evans	2201 Brookhaven Ct, Fallston, MD 21047

Is there a VMS bootp from CMU ? I looked via FTP and saw unix-based bootp 
files but no VMS-based ones.

/sig
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip
From: rustomji@sol.cs.wmich.edu (Eric Rustomji)
Subject: Help: getpeername(), getsockname() calls
Keywords: SOCKET SYSTEM CALLS
Organization: Western Michigan University
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 18:31:14 GMT

Hi there,

I was trying to use the BSD socket calls, on my client-server
project:

getpeername(s, name, namelen)
int s;
struct sockaddr *name;
int *namelen;

where, I allocated:
struct sockaddr clnt_name;
int clnt_name_len;

main()
{
    .
    .
    clnt_name_len = sizeof(clnt_name);
    getpeername(sockfd, &clnt_name, &clnt_name_len);
    .
    .
}

I observed that after the getpeername() call, the variable clnt_name
contains this:

clnt_name.sa_family = 2
clnt_name.sa_data = "p ( >"   --->> ????

Could anyone let me know, whats happening here. I dont seem to
be getting the endpoint connection/remote address of the socket.

I would appreciate if any ideas/reference could be sent to me ASAP
at my email address: 
rustomji@cs.wmich.edu

Thanks a bunch! Happy Holidays !!

--
Eric
From: soloway@midniteoil.Eng.Sun.COM (Mark Soloway)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip
Subject: Re: Multicast in SUNOS 4.1.3
Date: 15 Dec 1992 19:31:14 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: soloway@midniteoil.Eng.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: midniteoil

In article liqffoINNq8t@appserv.Eng.Sun.COM, soloway@midniteoil.Eng.Sun.COM (Mark Soloway) writes:
>In article 8672@uxmail.ust.hk, clfung@uxmail.ust.hk (Fung Chi Leung) writes:
>>Our system has upgraded to SUNOS 4.1.3 recently. As I heard from the news, 
>>it can support multicasting, right?  Can anyone out there give me any examples
>>or guides of how to program the multicasting functions?  
>
>I'm not sure about specific kernel multicast message support, but ToolTalk (a
>multicast message service) ships with OpenWindows 3.0 and later.  Your OpenWindows
>Document Set should include a "ToolTalk Programmer's Guide".  Also, Answerbook
>contains the "ToolTalk Programmer's Guide" in the "System Services" section...

For the people who have responded to me directly about my post:

I am quite aware of the IP Multicast support in Solaris 2.X (SunOS 5.X).  My reason
for mentioning ToolTalk is that ToolTalk IS a multicast IPC service and it provides
the level of multicast messaging required by a large variety of applications.  For
relevance to this news group, ToolTalk is layered on top RPC using TCP/IP for
transport.

						- Mark
__________________________________________
\_Mark Soloway (mark.soloway@Eng.Sun.COM)_\
/_Distributed Systems Services (ToolTalk)_/
\__SunSoft (A Sun Microsystems Company)___\

From: alech@hpindda.cup.hp.com (Alec Henderson)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 20:32:53 GMT
Subject: Re: Need MIME Information
Organization: HP Information Networks, Cupertino, CA
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip

I wrote:

>Can anyone help me find information on MIME?
>
>Which RFC(s) is it defined in?
>Are there any other sources of information (descriptive articles, etc.)?

After thanking everyone who responded, someone has asked me to pass along
what I learned.  I did not intend to take this conversation "off-line",
so here is a quick summary.  Nothing earth-shattering, I suspect, but
good to know nonetheless!

1.  MIME is defined in RFCs 1341-1344.

2.  There is a good introductory article on MIME in the September
    1992 issue of Connexions; also several other interesting articles
    on e-mail, both MIME and X.400.  (Ole Jacobsen, the Connexions
    editor, was kind enough to send me a copy of the September issue.)

3.  There is a freely distributable package that helps implement some of
    the MIME mechanisms.  The package is called "metamail" and is
    available for anonymous ftp from thumper.bellcore.com.  

4.  Discussions of MIME standards development and implementers hang out
    on the IETF MIME Working Group mailing list.

5.  More general discussions of MIME take place on USENET in comp.mail.mime,
    which was recently created.

Again, thanks to everyone for all the helpful information. 

Regards,
Alec Henderson

Telephone: T/408-447-3965		Hewlett-Packard
FAX:       408-447-3660			Information Networks Division
E-mail:    alech@cup.hp.com	       	19420 Homestead Road MS 43L9
HPDesk:    Alec Henderson/HP6600/1B	Cupertino, CA  95014  (USA)
From: alech@hpindda.cup.hp.com (Alec Henderson)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 05:25:14 GMT
Subject: Re: Need MIME Information
Organization: HP Information Networks, Cupertino, CA
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip

I wrote:

>Can anyone help me find information on MIME?
>
>Which RFC(s) is it defined in?
>Are there any other sources of information (descriptive articles, etc.)?

Many thanks to EVERYONE who responded.  I received a great deal of
helpful information.  I wasn't clear in my original post that I 
already know where and how to pull up RFCs (but was too lazy to
start there); thanks to all of you who sent me that information
also.

The net comes through again!

Regards,
Alec Henderson

Telephone: T/408-447-3965		Hewlett-Packard
FAX:       408-447-3660			Information Networks Division
E-mail:    alech@cup.hp.com	       	19420 Homestead Road MS 43L9
HPDesk:    Alec Henderson/HP6600/1B	Cupertino, CA  95014  (USA)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip
From: wayne@kean.ucs.mun.ca
Subject: PCS AND DUPLICATE TCP ADDRESSES
Organization: Memorial University. St.John's Nfld, Canada
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 02:18:46 GMT

I am using CMU TCP on a VAX running VMS. I am telneting to this vax from 
PC's using Kermit 3.11 ( which has built-in telnet ).

Many times pc users copy the kermit file from their pc around to other 
machines. One of the files they copy is mskermit.ini that has the tcp 
address of the person's pc. When that file is copied, the receiving machine 
also gets the tcp address of the copying machine. And on it goes. Sometimes 
a whole lab of pc's gets the same tcp address. The network dies a slow 
death.

My question is " Is there a way to prevent a pc from accessing the network 
if there is already a pc on the network at that moment with the same tcp 
address as the one attempting access ?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Wayne Hann
wayne@leif.ucs.mun.ca
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip
From: matt@wardsgi.med.yale.edu (Matt Healy)
Subject: Re: setting TCP parameters
Followup-To: comp.protocols.tcp-ip
Organization: Yale U. - Genetics
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 18:54:40 GMT

In article <gmarzot-161292084738@gmarzot.mitre.org>, gmarzot@mitre.org (G.
S. Marzot) wrote:
> 
> Here is a question that I am sure has been asked before but no one I talk
> to seems to know the answer. On a Sun Sparc 2 SunOS 4.1.X I would like to
> set the default TCP window size to be as large as possible(32kbytes no ?).
> Does anyone know a good source for this type of information.  I am working
> on TCP over a satellite and I would also like to extend default time outs
> to drop the TCP connection.  Does anyone know how to set this parameter as
> well?  I assume it is in a header someplace and then I rebuild the kernel
> but it would be nice to see the procedure written down before I start
> flailing the system. Thanks in advance. -GSM

I don't know about Suns; as you can tell from my address I am on a
Silicon Graphics workstation myself.  On SGIs, you change the parameters
in various header files and then run the command "autoconfig" to
reconfigure
the kernel via lboot.  On my machine the various files live in the
directory /usr/sysgen/master.d/* with fairly intuitive filenames and
they are heavily commented.  Look for files called README or something
similar in your /usr/sysgen/* directory tree.

I just did [grep "tcp" /usr/sysgen/master.d/*] on my sgi:

----------------------------output follows---------
wardsgi 42% grep "tcp" /usr/sysgen/master.d/*
/usr/sysgen/master.d/bsd:int tcpprintfs  = 0;
/usr/sysgen/master.d/bsd:unsigned 
long tcp_sendspace = 60 * 1024;       /* must be < 64K */
/usr/sysgen/master.d/bsd:unsigned 
long tcp_recvspace = 60 * 1024;       /* must be < 64K */
/usr/sysgen/master.d/bsd:int tcp_ttl = 60;
/usr/sysgen/master.d/master.c:int tcpprintfs  = 0;
/usr/sysgen/master.d/master.c:unsigned 
long tcp_sendspace = 60 * 1024;  /* must be < 64K */
/usr/sysgen/master.d/master.c:unsigned 
long tcp_recvspace = 60 * 1024;  /* must be < 64K */
/usr/sysgen/master.d/master.c:int tcp_ttl = 60;
wardsgi 43%
-------------------end of output------------

Matt Healy
"I pretend to be a network administrator;
 the lab net pretends to work"

matt@wardsgi.med.yale.edu
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip
From: Steinar.Haug@delab.sintef.no (Steinar Haug)
Subject: Re: ipmulti for SUNOS 4.1.3
Organization: SINTEF DELAB, Trondheim, Norway.
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 14:23:31 GMT

Jan.vOorschot@dnpap.et.tudelft.nl (Jan van Oorschot) writes:
> As the title says, i'am looking for ipmulti for SUNOS 4.1.3.
> The standard distribution 
> 
> 	'ipmulti-sunos41x.tar.Z'
> 	
> contains kernel patches for SUNOS 4.1.1 and SUNOS4.1.2, but ...., not
> for SUNOS4.1.3.

The latest version of ipmulti-sunos41x.tar.Z, from gregorio.stanford.edu,
definitely contains patches for 4.1.3 also.

Steinar Haug, system/networks administrator
SINTEF DELAB, University of Trondheim, NORWAY
Email: Steinar.Haug@delab.sintef.no, 
	sthaug@idt.unit.no, steinar@tosca.er.sintef.no
From: mgriffin@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Mark Griffin)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip
Subject: Simultaneous TCP/IP and Lan Manager
Date: 18 Dec 1992 11:21:35 -0600
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: matt.ksu.ksu.edu

Is there a version of TCP/IP that will run basically simultaneous with
Starlan's Lan Manager?  
-- 
.   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .  .
Mark Griffin, Sys Admin, Fort Hays State University      |It is always better to
Internet:mgriffin@matt.ksu.ksu.edu Bitnet:mgriffin@ksuvm |do, than be done to.
.   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .  .
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip,comp.unix.bsd
From: vwelch@ncsa.uiuc.edu (Von Welch)
Subject: Re: Limiting Telnet access.
Organization: Nat'l Ctr for Supercomp App (NCSA) @ University of Illinois
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 15:37:15 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.230214.16501@vector.dallas.tx.us>, tbo@vector.dallas.tx.us (Terry Bohaning) writes:
|> Has anyone modified the telnet daemon to include to capability
|> for an allow/deny file. What I'm thinking of is a way to prevent
|> any machine not listed in an allow file or every machine except
|> those listed in a deny file from telneting into our machines.

Look for a program called tcpwrapper. It does just what you are looking for.

-- 
Von Welch (vwelch@ncsa.uiuc.edu)	NCSA Networking Development Group

- I speak only for myself and those who think exactly like me -
From: avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au (Darren Reed)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip
Subject: Port Allocation.
Date: 15 Dec 92 14:59:15 GMT
Organization: Australian National University
NNTP-Posting-Host: 150.203.76.2

When allocating ports for program use, it is commonly recognized that
under 1024 is priveledged as per the latest numbers RFC.  A small space
of this (usu between 1000 and 1024) is used by the "r" commands.

Then what ?  From /usr/include/netinet/in.h:

/*
 * Ports < IPPORT_RESERVED are reserved for
 * privileged processes (e.g. root).
 * Ports > IPPORT_USERRESERVED are reserved
 * for servers, not necessarily privileged.
 */
#define IPPORT_RESERVED         1024
#define IPPORT_USERRESERVED     5000

Does this imply that nfs should be on a port > 5000 or that OpenWindows/
Openlook shouldn't be at 2000 and that most rpc services are definately
in the wrong place ?

What about NCSA telnet which *always* has a local port >16384 for any
connection, be it telnet or ftp ?

darren
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip
From: ffuentes@tolten.puc.cl (Fernando Fuentes SCC)
Subject: EDI over TCP/IP
Organization: Pontificia Universidad Catolica de Chile
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 21:58:07 GMT

I would like to know if there are experiencies with EDI over TCP/IP, and
how did they worked.
I know that EDI works fine over X.400 and that there is X.400 working
over TCP/IP. I think that this could be one solution. I there are any
comments, please send them to me.
I would like to know also if there is another way to put EDI over
TCP/IP, and what EDI is that (I am not sure but I have heard that there
is another stantar than ISO EDI/EDIFACT)

Thanks for your cooperation


Fernando Fuentes
SECICO 
Pontificia Universidad Catolica de Chile
Vicuna Mackenna 4860, Santiago, Chile 
ffuentes@tolten.puc.cl
From: J.Crowcroft@cs.ucl.ac.uk (Jon Crowcroft)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip
Subject: Re: ATM
Date: 18 Dec 92 12:00:32 GMT



 >First , is this an appropriate newgroup to talk about ATM networks?

no
try
comp.dcom.cell-relay

 jon

Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip
From: mikes@techbook.com (Mike Scheuerman)
Subject: NSCA terminal emulator
Summary: Looking for a source for NSCA terminal emulator
Keywords: NSCA emulation
Organization: TECHbooks of Beaverton Oregon - Public Access Unix
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 18:31:39 GMT

We are in the process of installing a large LAN supported by a Unix
server running portable Netware and we need to be able to connect to
the host in normal terminal mode thru the LAN.  I understand that
NSCA has a pretty good terminal emulator that is in the public domain
and therefor inexpensive :-).  Does anyone know 1) if my information
is correct and 2) if so how one goes about getting a copy of the
emulator.

The workstations are PCs and the network is TCP/IP based.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Mike Scheuerman  
(mikes@techbook.com)

-- 
mikes@techbook.COM  Public Access User --- Not affiliated with TECHbooks
Public Access UNIX and Internet at (503) 220-0636 (1200/2400, N81)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
PhoneNet: 503/227-0600   
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip,comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc