From: rsrodger@wam.umd.edu (Yamanari)
Subject: Re: Your own words, of course != bigot
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Distribution: usa, world
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 20:39:32 GMT

In article <1993Jan1.201122.9433@ux1.cts.eiu.edu> cfthb@ux1.cts.eiu.edu (Howard Black) writes:
>In article <1993Jan1.191535.10267@wam.umd.edu> rsrodger@wam.umd.edu (Yamanari) writes:
>
>[wrt homosexuality]
>
>>	1.  No matter how you stack the deck, it's deviant.
>
>    I say it isn't.  You say it is.  I say mind your own business.


	Look up the word, get back to me.  Homosexuality is deviant,
	it fill all of the criteria.


>>	2.  Our culture seeks to cure those who are deviant from
>>		their behavior.  The mentally ill, recluses, 
>>		anti-socials, serial killers, child molesters,
>>		thieves.
>
>    But only those who seek help or are a danger.  Gays are not in either
>category.



	Not true (to the first part).  For the second, if homosexuality
	is learned, they are a danger to learners (children).


>>	3.  I can't think of a *single* moral stand, that--given
>>		the two assertions above are true--says people should
>
>    But they're not.


	Yes, they are.
	If you are going to say "they're not" you'd better try to
	come up with more than an assertion.  A 4 year old can say 
	"no".

>>		just leave homosexuals alone.  If you choose to 
>>		argue the two assertions above, try the second one, 
>>		becausethe first is unarguable.(see def. "deviant")
>
>    Sure it is.  It's an opinion, to which you're entitled.


	It is not an opinion.  Shall I enlighten you?

	Deviant:  deviating from the NORM


>>	Nevertheless, heterosexuality is clearly not deviant.  Thus,
>
>    As clearly that homosexuality *is*, I assume.


	That's right.  By definition of deviant.


>>	it is not going to draw attention as needing to be cured.  I
>>	suppose that if we needed an answer for this question that yes,
>>	heterosexuality could be cured.  Probably pretty easily.
>
>    Probably not.  Just like being gay.


	Back it up.


>>	You would simply need to replace the sexual target with
>>	something else.   Shoes, for instance.  Or sheep.  Or something
>>	else.   Or, rechannel the sex drive--eating, sports, violence,
>>	excercise.  
>
>    This is another one of those "points too dumb to respond to".  Just so
>you know.  I'm glad you post this type of thing, though...it explains a lot
>about the way you think.


	At least I think.  That's more than I can say for someone too dense
	to realize the definition of a simple word.


>>>  I may not agree, but your life is up to you as
>>>long as it doesn't affect me negatively.  Get it?
>>
>>	Ahh, then--suppose that I believe it is my duty to the great and
>>	mighty two headed cow god to sacrifice a number of cuddly 
>>	animals every day in front of my children--is it still my
>>	opinion, and am I still entitled to act on it?
>
>    Yes, no.  You are harming both the animals and children.  


	It is my belief that they consent.


>>	SEXUALITY IS BEHAVIORAL.  It doesn't matter one wit that it 
>>	can be "expressed" or not.  All aspects of sexuality are 
>>	_behavioral_.  In fact, the sex drive *itself* is behavioral--
>>	it is defined by behavioral properties and nothing else.  It
>>	is not _biological_.  The operation of the sex organs is "biological"--
>>	sexual orientation is _behavioral_.
>>
>>	It shows very shallow thinking that you are unable to grasp this
>>	simple conclusion even after having it pointed out.  Thins
>>	are either biological or behavioral.  Sexuality is behavioral.
>
>    Sounds like a semantic issue to me.  I consider the behavioral aspect
>to be what you do because of the drive.  If you consider the drive itself
>to be behavioral, then there is no argument except wrt terms.


	Then you don't understand the meaning of the word "behavioral".  It's
	not a semantic issue, it's an ignorance one.  Read up.

-- 
	Blaming "society" for your problems is like blaming clouds for rain.

         ---  boycott == censorship == closed mindedness == cowardice  ---
		   	     Pain teaches.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc