From: bender@riscee.pko.dec.com (Patricia Bender)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.bush,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Commentary on the V-P debate
Date: 14 Oct 92 16:26:33 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation, Maynard MA


{My appologies to anyone who caught the first article.  I had mistaken 
Stockdale's name for "Stockwell".  I cancelled the articles, and re-submitted
it with Stockdale's correct name.  Please forgive my ignorance.}

First comment:  When the *&%#% did they change the time from 9:00 to 7:00 
EST????   Fortunately, I turned the TV on at 7:10.  I missed the intros and 
opening statements, but managed to watch and tape the rest.  I was going to 
take notes on my first viewing, but found that it was distracting me from 
enjoying the debate.  So, I watched it, enjoyed it, and viewed the tape for 
analyzing the debate.

The following is from my point of view.  Feel free to think what ever you want.

--------

Raise your hand if when Quayle said that he wanted to bring Gore's book, you 
were hoping that Gore would say that he wanted to bring a potato.

Raise your hand if you felt sorry for Stockdale.  (Okay, you can all put your 
hands down now.)

Raise your hand if you were wondering whether or not Stockdale was joking when
he said, "You know, I didn't have my hearing aid turned on, tell me again."
Raise both hands if you didn't think he was joking.

---------

Stocdale definitely had the best one-liners, but did not look like he belonged
or as someone who should be second in line to the presidency.  Quayle was very 
aggressive and did an excellent job of tap dancing around some of the issues. 
Gore seemed more dignified and seemed to answer more of the questions with 
substance.  If I was to choose a winner, I would have picked Gore because of 
the previous sentence.  Quayle, however, did not lose.  He handled himself 
well, made many of the points he wanted to make, and (most importantly) did not
make any gaffes.  I was impressed.  However, the v-p debates normally don't 
mean anything.  Probably, neither Clinton nor Bush gained or loss anything.  
The big loser was Perot.  I can see Perot losing a lot of support because of 
Stockdale (I have nothing against the man personally, but you saw the debate).

---------
And now for the quotes:

Nicest tap dance:  After Gore questioned the existance of SS18s (despite what 
Bush said in the pres. debate), Quayle beautifully tap danced by giving a 
lecture about foreign diplomacy which included listing the heads of 5 countries
and telling Gore to "lighten up here, Al."  Quayle then went into the Clinton 
trust issue (not even slightly related to the question).

Poorest pun:  Gore on the Today show (10/14) commented that he thought that 
Stockdale did "admirably".

Stockdale: "And I think America is seeing right now the reason this nation is 
in gridlock."

Quayle: {talking about term limits} "... and you limit the terms of the 
president. But that is another subject."
Gore: "We're fixing to limit one."

Hal (moderator): "Coming out of health care, again trying to avoid contraversy,
let's talk about the abortion debate."

Stockdale: "I believe that a woman owns her body and what she does with it is 
her own business. Period."  {I think that was all he originally planned on 
saying about abortion, but the audience's applause and moderator's confusion 
about the short response caused him to explain a _little_ bit further.}

Stockdale: "I feel I'm an observer at a ping pong game."

Stockdale: {about the society he ran in prison camp} "The best thing I had 
going for me was I had no contact with Washington for all those years."


---------

Here is my tabulation from the debate.  This is from the posting that was 
taken from the Quayle Quarterly.

-putting glasses on/off doesn't count as touching face
-must be laughter, not giggles
-didn't count Bush as name of unpopular president from the other guy's party =)
-the interrupts with applause only counts when the speaker is not finished 
speaking
-The four items that have ** are ones I added
 
I tried to be fair, but don't guarantee it.  I might have counted some things 
you wouldn't have, I might have counted things you would have, and I might have
missed some things all together (keep in mind that I missed the intro and 
opening statements of the debate).  
{My appologies to anyone whose screen wraps around wierdly as I added 
Stockwell to the list.}
_______________________________________________________________________________________________

Al                                                                    Dan	    Stockdale
                           BUZZWORDS & PHRASES 

      Count each time a candidate mentions the following:

       Family members by name (+1 point)
(9) 9  The words "family", "values", or "proud" (+1)		       (8)  8
(3) 3  Any US state (+1 point)					       (2)  2
       First name of person asking the question (+1)		       (5)  5
       Sports metaphor or reference (+5)
       Pop culture reference (+5)
       The name of a popular president from his party (+5)
(1) 5  The name of an unpopular president from the other
       guy's party (+5)
(2) 10 The name of a do-gooder (+5)						     (1)  5
(3) 30 Homespun, folksy saying or joke (+10)			       (2) 20	     (2) 20
       Flubbing a homespun, folksy saying or joke (-20)
       The "best line of the evening" (+50)					     (1) 50
       The words "Quayle Quarterly" (+100)
(2) -4 **Long "Let me tell you ..." story (-2)			       (5)-10	     (1) -2

                             AUDIENCE REACTION

(2) 20 Interrupts candidate with applause (+10)			       (2) 20	     (6) 60
       Interrupts candidate with applause so much that the moderator
       had to admonish the audience to stop (+20)
(1) -5 Boos or hisses (-5)
(4) 40 Laughter (with candidate) (+10)				       (3) 30	     (3) 30
(1)-10 Laughter (at candidate (-20)				       (2)-10
       Interrupted by ACT-UP protesters (-10)

                            ANSWERS AND CONDUCT

(1) 5  **Ignoring the question (+5)				       (4) 20	     (2) 10
(1) 5  Successfully tapdancing around a delicate question (+5)         (3) 15
       Each additional evasion of the same question (+10)	       (2) 20
       Losing one's place in the middle of an answer (-5)	       (1) -5	     (12)-60
       Attacking the questioner for promoting "media sleaze" (+10)
       Voice cracks or gets squeaky (-5)
       Is seen drinking from water glass on camera (-10)
(1)-10 Gripes that the other guy is breaking a debate rule (-10)       (2)-20
       Interrupts the other guy by saying something like "That's 
       uncalled for!" (-10)
(6)-120Touches face while on camera (-20)					     (1)-20
(5)-50 **Unsuccessfully tries to interupt other candidate (more	       (7)-70 	     (1)-10
         than just "no" and shaking head) (-10)	
(2) 20 **Successfully interupts other candidate (+10)		       (1) 10	     (1) 10


                              FINAL STATEMENTS
   
{tie}  Candidate who uses the most of his time without going            {tie}
   10  overtime (+20)							   10
       New campaign metaphor (i.e. shining city on a hill, etc.) (+10) (1) 10
       Quotes from a "great American" (+10)

                               THE HANDSHAKE

       Candidate laughs while shaking hands (+10)
       Candidate seen pointing at something while shaking hands (+10)
       Other candidate looks to where the candidate points (+20)




Total:                                                              Total:	    Total:
-42  (78 if exclude brushing hair out of face)				   55		93
_______________________________________________________________________________________________


That was a lot of fun!

patricia
Newsgroups: alt.politics.clinton,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.bush