HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: horne-scott@CS.YALE.EDU (Scott Horne)
Subject: Re: "Superiority"
Organization: Computer "Science" Dept, Yale University
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 05:48:18 GMT

In article <1992Apr8.194656.9283@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu>, js92@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Jungshik  Shin) writes:
<In article <1992Apr8.081720.8084@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> hyx1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Harry Y Xu) writes:
<
<>I'm pissed off to see people (Ex. Scott Horne) being attacked for simply 
<>and plainly stating what they believe to be historical facts.  Some netters
<                               ???????
<
<   Problem lies in 'Believe' and  What can not be confirmed or not
<   based on solid evidence.  Scott Horne mentioned a 'Chinese Classic'

Wrong.  It was a Korean "classic" written in classical Chinese (as were
ALL other Korean books of the day).

<   with all evidence for what he BELIEVE. Then, why didn't he name the
<   title of that so-called 'classic' at the beginning of this debate?

I wasn't educated in Korea.  Many of my flamers were.  Since some of them
are talking so much about their wonderful "education", and how they were
taught all about the origin of _han'gu<l_, let *them* name the book to which
I refer.  (Not that I can't do it.  I'm just trying to show that the
loudmouths who think they're so "educated" really aren't.)

<   (In that point, he is quite inconsistent. He in one
<   article said that we Korean are proud of SOMEONE ELSE's invention, which
<   seem to me to meant that Hangul was made soley by NON-Koreans.

I've said no such thing.

<   Excuse me for not directly quoting
<   his articles.

Quote them or retract your statement.

<      One more thing to say. Maybe he has read a Chinese book about
<      'Hangul's developmnet and Chinese involvment in it.

No.

<      Even if that
<      book described that many Chinese participated in Hangul
<      development, it's not enough evidence for his argument because
<      there are many books denying his argument.

Name one.  (You're the one who's so interested in evidence, after all.)

					--Scott

-- 
Scott Horne                               ...!{harvard,cmcl2,decvax}!yale!horne
horne@cs.Yale.edu      SnailMail:  Box 7196 Yale Station, New Haven, CT   06520
203 436-1848                Residence:  Rm 1848 Silliman College, New Haven, CT
ZANG4 HAN4 YI4 JIA1 / GONG4 JIAN4 ZHONG1HUA2!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
From: jgl7@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Andrew T. Kim)
Subject: Re: language vs writing system, once and for all
Reply-To: jgl7@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Andrew T. Kim)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 17:44:43 GMT

In article <1992Apr14.150654.25897@acsu.buffalo.edu> jae@acsu.buffalo.edu (Jaehoon Lee) writes:
>(James Choi) writes:
>>A large percentage of Korean words came from Chinese.  It is a known fact.
>>Often, they are written in Chinese characters.  Most of our names have...
>
>Things are changing though... 

Yes, but very slowly.

>You don't see too many Chinese characters on
>official letters in Korea anymore.  At my company, many official letters 
>(Gong-Moon) are written purely in Korean alphabets.  (Of course many of the 
>words are from China; nontheless they are written in Korean.)
>

Is KTRC controlled by government?  I guess they have to show they "care".
The fact remains that many words are from Chinese and can't really change
that.  Sometimes the meaning of the word becomes clearer with Chinese
notation.  It is good to use more Korean notations, but it will be hard to
eliminate dependency on Chinese notations completely.

>Also, many Koreans now give pure Korean names to their new-born children.
>One of my relatives have a daughter by name A-Reum.  Well, the father's
>lastname is Han.  Together, it is Han A-Reum and I think it is wonderful.
>

I think that's a pretty name.  Although it reminds me of the name of the
largest Korean grocery in NY...  :)

>Personally, I think I will give pure Korean names to my children, if possible.

I think most of them are pretty.  But be careful, though.  Depending on
the name, your kid might have to go through a serious childhood 
trauma...  :)

My Korean name is "Kim Taeyon".  I was called from "Tae Yeon Han Nom (One
who doesn't care)" to "Gim Bap (Maki)".  

My friend with last name "Cho" was called from "Cho Gae (clam)" to 
"---t" (ask me via e-mail) :)

Kids.  It's their JOB to make fun out of anything in sight.


>In addition, I will also consider giving names that can be easily written
>in English.  In other words, names that can be written in English and 
>pronounced close to actual pronunciation of the name or names that can be
>translated into a nice word, say Soo-Jeong and Crystal, just an example...
>

How about Eugene?  That's only name I know of which can be written in
Korean, Chinese and English without any problem.  Does anyone know of any
more?  My wife an I are planning to have a baby soon.  We might as well
think ahead...  :)


>Jaehoon
>-- 
>   Jaehoon Lee: Jeon-Im Researcher at Korea Telecom Research Center (KTRC)
>   Internet:    jae@Sorak.KAIST.ac.kr  (SDN account)
>   * Hey! My opinions have nothing to do with my company/my boss. *
From: raja@arirang.cps.msu.edu (Narayan S. Raja)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
Subject: Re: Super-set system
Keywords: Korea, writing system
Date: 8 Apr 92 18:17:52 GMT
Article-I.D.: msuinfo.1992Apr8.181752.9204
Reply-To: raja@cps.msu.edu
Organization: Michigan State University, CPS Department


In article <1992Apr7.183614.12003@casbah> (James Choi) writes:

< It seems like we are going through a cyclic argument.  To break this boring
< cycle, I decided to use a "parallel" example.

< Indian music has more than 12 tones at modern western music uses.  I think
< it as 18 tones or so.  It may not be exact, but the Indian music scale can


22.  Just for information,

Regards,


Narayan Sriranga Raja.

----  |     ----  |
   |  |        /  |
 --   |--     /   |--
|     |      /\   |
 ---  |     /  \  |
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
From: horne-scott@CS.YALE.EDU (Scott Horne)
Subject: Re: Death wishing ( was Birthday greetings )
Organization: Computer "Science" Dept, Yale University
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 13:36:47 GMT

In article <1992Apr15.110312.28090@acsu.buffalo.edu>, jae@acsu.buffalo.edu (Jaehoon Lee) writes:
<(Scott Horne) writes:
<
<>I'd like to take this opportunity to wish President Kim Ilsung a happy
<>eightieth birthday.
<
<I'd like to take this opportunity to wish President Kim Ilsung's death
<before his eighty-first birthday.

How nice.  What a friendly newsgroup.

					--Scott

-- 
Scott Horne                               ...!{harvard,cmcl2,decvax}!yale!horne
horne@cs.Yale.edu      SnailMail:  Box 7196 Yale Station, New Haven, CT   06520
203 436-1848                Residence:  Rm 1848 Silliman College, New Haven, CT
Shao2shan1 sheng1 de tai4yang2 yong3 bu2 luo4!
Xref: sparky soc.culture.korean:2117 soc.culture.china:13114
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computer Network
Date: Wednesday, 15 Apr 1992 20:05:33 CDT
From: <UD162992@NDSUVM1.BITNET>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean,soc.culture.china
Subject: Movable type: Was it invented in Korea ?

Hello, folks.

  I got the following from the syllabus about Chinese Civilization which will
be offered this fall semester at the University of North Dakota.
  It says "..Would you believe it?  Johann Guntenberg did not invent movable
type.  It was invented in China?"
  What am I missing here?  I think that movable type was invented in KOREA 200
years before Guntenberg did.
  Any expert in this area?
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
From: shin@duck.ee.udel.edu (Jeong-Gyun Shin)
Subject: Re: Birthday greetings
Organization: University of Delaware
Distribution: soc
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 14:33:44 GMT

In article <1992Apr15.075856.9995@cs.yale.edu> horne-scott@CS.YALE.EDU (Scott Horne) writes:
>I'd like to take this opportunity to wish President Kim Ilsung a happy
>eightieth birthday.

A difference between SHorne and young South American Maoists, say Peruvian 
Sendero Luminosos or idealists of Communist Party of Brazil among others, 
is that South Americans can claim sometimes justifyingly 'fighting' for 
their the good of their own country, but too-young-at-heart SHorne has no
country to fight for.  I mean, what kind reactionary posture is that 
SHorne sits comfy idly in the daddy of capitalist-imperialist country, 
toting precious keyboard as it was the treasure of life, missing the time 
boat by large ... well, cool blue blooded [*] intelectuals were always front 
runners of proletariat revolution so let's wait until SHorne decide to run 
for People's Assembly, either in Beijing or in Pyongyang.  If Beijin, am
sure SHorne'll fix rotten free initiative system being introduced now.

P.S. [*] I really love these Ivy league's intellectuals.  The other day,
it was something of 'Imperial Japan may have caused *disruption* in Korea
prior to 1945.'  Today, well.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
From: kim%asylum.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Kwansik Kim)
Subject: Re: Cha Mak - closed caption decoder
Date: 14 Apr 92 11:57:40 MDT
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept

In article <1992Apr14.001647.1232@casbah.acns.nwu.edu> phantom@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (James Choi) writes:
>About "CC" (closed caption) devices.  I have one of those, and this is what
>I found out.
>
>if it did, I am sure it won't work with what I have.  It is something I
>like about the standards...  there are so many to choose from....  :(
>
>All in all, it is not worth $200 or so that I paid for.  I got suckered...
>But what else is new?
>
>James Choi

No,it's not even worth a dime for people who can hear. 
But it is interesting for me that almost every Korean student here
has the device. Especially those who are married. Everyone buys it but
I've never seen anyone who use it actually. They just bear the 
inconvenience of using 2 remote controls and feel good about themselves
thinking they're doing their bests to learn English. 

Ah,our Korean's burning desire to learn English !!

Maybe they just wanted to buy just because another Korean next door has it.

Just my thoughts about the device.

Kwansik Kim
From: shin@duck.ee.udel.edu (Jeong-Gyun Shin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
Subject: Re: "Superiority"
Date: 8 Apr 92 15:13:17 GMT
Article-I.D.: udel.1992Apr8.151317.18947
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Delaware

In article <1992Apr8.081720.8084@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> hyx1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Harry Y Xu) writes:
>I'm pissed off to see people (Ex. Scott Horne) being attacked for simply 
>and plainly stating what they believe to be historical facts.  Some netters

Where were you, my dear, 'what believe to be historical facts' by Scott
Horne includes, among others, as I once posted, legitimacy of Chinese 
occupation of Tibet based on some 13th century Chinese kingdom.  Obviously
s.c.k and Tibet is far farther apart but I am sure it adds up since many
netters are still waiting to see the names of Chinese scholars who decisively
contributed to the creation of hangul.
From: leeju@frith.msu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
Subject: Looking for a Korean graduate student in Ohio State University
Date: 11 Apr 92 19:11:52 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Michigan State University, College of Engineering
Originator: leeju@frith.egr.msu.edu

Hi, there.

I am looking for a Korean graduate student in the Transportation Program,
Department of Civil Engineering, Ohio State University,Columbus,Ohio.

If anybody in Ohio State University sees this posting, please let him know.

I have just got admission to that program, in Civil Engineering.
But I have no much idea about that program.
I want to talk with a Korean graduate student if there is any.

Please anyone who sees this in Ohio State University let him know
that I want help.

Thank you very much.

-JungTaek Lee.

My e-mail address is 
 
	  leeju@frith.egr.msu.edu

My phone # is 
  
	  1-517-353-3659
From: ksc3@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Kyu sok  Cho)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
Subject: Korea, a unique culture
Keywords: korea, a unique culture
Date: 12 Apr 92 05:42:21 GMT
Reply-To: ksc3@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Kyu sok  Cho)
Distribution: soc.culture.korean
Organization: Columbia University

Following are what I have synthesized from bits of info I got from you 
all regarding the uniquness of Korea.
(Send any errors/corrections to me directly. I will post them if there 
 is a consensus that I have erred.)

Unique culture.
	Koreans are one ethnic family.  Both linguistic and anthropological
studies, as well as lengendary sources, clearly distinguishes Koreans
from Chinese.
	Despite the influence of China, and invasions by the Chinese, Mongols,
and Japanese, Koreans have retained their own cultural and political 
identity and preserved rich heritage for 5000 years. (That is FIVE thousand 
years folks.)  Koreans are proud people with one of the longest recorded
national histories.

Korea and Japan.
	It was from the Kingdom of Paekche that ancient Japanese culture,
if not the Japanese royal blood itself, came.
(Harry, did you know that Soga family was Korean? Niether did I.)

Language.
	All koreans speak and write the same language, linguistically
different from China.  Korean script, Hangul, was invented in the 
15th century by a group of scholars undwer the patronage of King Sejong, 
the Great. Hangul is considered the most scientific writng system in use.
It is simple, and yet systematic and comprehensive at the same time.
It is easy to learn, and it has greatly contributed to Korean's high 
literacy rate.

<following is mine and mine alone>
I remember reading not too long ago that UN has made the world literacy
awareness day as King Sejong Day in recognition of the fact Hangul is
AWESOME.  
Am I the only one who read this? (I don't read korean papers.)

K. CHO

P.S. I have not heard anything about Koguryo and her vast conquest
     under King Kang-gae-to.  Isn't this something to be proud of.
P.S. Those of you who have nothing to say to Harry, I encourage you
     to send the two paragraphs on unique culture of korea.
     Lets make sure he gets the message.
From: jpast10@icarus.lis.pitt.edu (Jong-seon Park)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
Subject: Re: Internet link in korea
Date: 12 Apr 92 21:10:53 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh


Does anyone know that the internet address of Chunnam National University
as well?
I'll appreciate if someone know it and inform it to me.
Thanks.


Jong-seon
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
From: horne-scott@CS.YALE.EDU (Scott Horne)
Subject: Re: "Superiority" (Re: Representation of Korea in East Asian Studies)
Keywords: Korea, East Asian Civilization
Organization: Computer "Science" Dept, Yale University
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 05:26:43 GMT

In article <8898@scott.ed.ac.uk>, iad@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Ivan A Derzhanski) writes:
<In article <1992Apr5.063257.11418@cs.yale.edu> horne-scott@CS.YALE.EDU (Scott Horne) writes:
<>In article <1992Apr5.032330.8059@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu>, js92@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Jungshik  Shin) writes:
<><In article <1992Apr5.005926.8290@cs.yale.edu> horne-scott@CS.YALE.EDU (Scott Horne) writes:
<><
<>[In response to a claim that the _han'gu<l_ alphabet is perhaps "the best":]
<><>Not best.  It seems pretty good for Korean; it might not be so great for
<><>Tamil or Zulu.
<
<Actually, my guess is that Han'gu<l would be excellent for both Tamil
<and Zulu.

You're right.  I chose my examples too hastily.

<It would be very good for Finnish too.

And Hawai`ian.  Even Chinese.  (Not surprisingly, since--well, I won't
start *that* flamewar again.  :-))

<It would be more
<difficult to make it work for Russian or English.

True, because of the many (and various) consonant clusters in each syllable.

<><    If you mean so, no reason that Hangul is good for it
<><    considering a great distance bet. two languages.
<>
<>_Han'gu<l_ might turn out to be very good for it.  The Roman and Cyrillic
<>alphabets are fine for some languages thousands of miles from Europe.
<
<Well, let's see what it would take to design a han'gu<lisation for a
<non-Korean language?  Han'gu<l has a rather limited set of letters for
<consonants, but more can easily be added if needed.

Even the available consonant letters are adequate for many languages
(and can easily be adapted).  Several obsolete ones (the triangle-shaped
one that was mentioned, the partial _hiu<t_, &c) could be revived if
necessary.

<But the manner of writing in syllables,
<which is an inalienable property of han'gu<l, has been invented with
<the Korean syllable structure (max. CVCC) in mind.  It would not
<accommodate too well a language with heavier consonant clusters.

And if it were made to accommodate both syllable-initial and -final consonant
clusters, the curious (and perhaps useful) property of unambiguous
representation in series (I mentioned this recently) would be lost.

<>My point was that the fact that _han'gu<l_ is good for Korean does not imply
<>that other languages' writing systems are just as good for them.
<
<Is that "... are not just as good for them"?

Yes.  Thanks.  :-)

					--Scott

-- 
Scott Horne                               ...!{harvard,cmcl2,decvax}!yale!horne
horne@cs.Yale.edu      SnailMail:  Box 7196 Yale Station, New Haven, CT   06520
203 436-1848                Residence:  Rm 1848 Silliman College, New Haven, CT
ZANG4 HAN4 YI4 JIA1 / GONG4 JIAN4 ZHONG1HUA2!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
From: hjkim@sol.UVic.CA (Hyong-Joong Kim)
Subject: Re: Birthday greetings
Followup-To: soc.culture.korean
Summary: Objection	
Organization: University of Victoria, Victoria, B.C. CANADA
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 19:33:02 GMT

obJECtion to one netter's death wish to North Korean pres Kim Il-Sung.
If he wanted certain changes in N. Korea, then the netter must express them
clearly.  ... 
Although i could not sleep 3days this time ten years ago in my service 
(special alert to sudden attacks from the North, scam scam .both.. ), i really
do not want to see another Korean leader be assassinated.   That causes
"people" to get hurt.   To my surprise, G Washington still enjoys his weekend
in Feb.   You folks in the States enjoyed the long weekend, didn't you?
Have a nice weekend!

hyong-joong kim
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
From: horne-scott@CS.YALE.EDU (Scott Horne)
Subject: Re: Name
Organization: Computer "Science" Dept, Yale University
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 05:33:17 GMT

First, JYSH writes this:

> About Mr. Scott Horne...
> This is a theory of a friend of mine (yeah right...)
> He was probably dumped by a Korean girl... hehehe
> He then got himself a Chinese girl... hehehe
> Now he is pissed off at the Koreans and loves the Chinese...

Then, he writes this:

In article <1992Apr7.235719.11566@vax5.cit.cornell.edu>, f8zy@vax5.cit.cornell.edu writes:
<
<I'm very interested in finding out if there are any HYUN's out there...
<It seems to be a very rare name and so far I've only encountered 2 other 
<Hyun's besides my family... (here in the states not Korea...)

From your manners--or rather lack thereof--one might suppose that you're
the son of Attila the HYUN.

					--Scott

-- 
Scott Horne                               ...!{harvard,cmcl2,decvax}!yale!horne
horne@cs.Yale.edu      SnailMail:  Box 7196 Yale Station, New Haven, CT   06520
203 436-1848                Residence:  Rm 1848 Silliman College, New Haven, CT
ZANG4 HAN4 YI4 JIA1 / GONG4 JIAN4 ZHONG1HUA2!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
From: jgl7@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Andrew T. Kim)
Subject: Re: Cha Mak - closed caption decoder
Reply-To: jgl7@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Andrew T. Kim)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 19:58:00 GMT

In article <1992Apr13.131813.25304@hellgate.utah.edu> kim%asylum.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Kwansik Kim) writes:
>In article <1992Apr12.220148.1@galluj> ckim@galluj writes:
>> [Korean/English Closed Caption Decoder being only marketed as English
    learning tool and ignoring the handicapped people]

>I agree that they should add the device is mainly for deaf people.
>I also think they are misleading Korean consumers a little bit by
>promoting the caption device for learning English. The function is
>minimal and I personally think it is not better for people to
>use the device for learning English than not to use the device.
>It helps to understand a lttle bit better if you don't understand 
>some specific word but it does not help you to learn listening English.
>The advertisement is mislead a bit too much.
>Well, I think it is another scam that business-oriented people created 
>using the fact that Koreans are too anxious to learn English.

Well, you can't just believe what the ad says.   This may not help the
people to learn English as the ad says, but this does help them to enjoy
the show which they wouldn't have understood.  

I am not exactly sure how it works, but I heard from people that only
selected programs are televised with the embedded codes which are necessary
for the decoder.  They weren't too happy because most of the programs they
liked to see cannot be decoded.   Does anyone know how it works?  

All in all, this is just another example showing that the handicapped are
largely ignored in Korean society...

>
>Kwansik Kim

Andy KIm
Xref: sparky soc.culture.korean:2096 soc.culture.japan:3508
From: tkim@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (Tonghyun Kim)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean,soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: korean and japanese culture
Date: 15 Apr 92 07:43:19 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.korean
Organization: University of California, San Diego

In article <1992Apr15.055347.7376@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> c9b-av@danube.Berkeley.EDU (Steve Chang) writes:
>Koreans and Japaneses seem to be full of themselves when it
>comes to their "culture."
>
>Let's face it folks, what "culture?"
>
>Your cultures are basically watered down Chinese handouts.  It might
>hurt your egos, but it is true.
>

Give us proof(s) WHY Korean and Japanese cultures are watered down
Chinese handouts.


Tonghyun "Vajra" Kim
tkim@sdcc3.ucsd.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
From: jgl7@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Andrew T. Kim)
Subject: Re: "Superiority" (Re: Representation of Korea in East Asian Studies)
Keywords: Korea, East Asian Civilization
Reply-To: jgl7@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Andrew T. Kim)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 17:24:49 GMT

In article <1992Apr6.164155.18278@m.cs.uiuc.edu> ywlee@herodotus.cs.uiuc.edu (Youngwhan Lee) writes:
>This thread became uninteresting as it involved more trash talks and personal
>attacks than constructive discussion. I hate to post anything on this 
>thread....
>

True.  But it was indeed interesting in the beginning... (sigh)

BTW, I think you missed some names in the quotes.  Which is understandable
when the number of nested brackets > 4 and we all know who wrote the
stuff... 

>js92@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Jungshik  Shin) writes:
>
> [Stuff deleted]
>
>>>Actually, many of the developers (of whom your belove`d King Sejong was
>>>*NOT* one) of _han'gu<l_ were Chinese.
>
>Huh, we had fairy tales saying they were 'indians.' Now we have another 
>saying 'chinese.' Guess what, I believe I'm correct on this: there were 
>eight scholors and I remember reading about these scholars' acitivity 
>recorded in some refereneces including some excerpt of "Yi-Jo Silrok." 
>The names I remember were Shin SookJu, Park Paeng-Nyun, Lee Gae and Sung 
>Sam-mun among the eight. I probably can look up some references to tell 
>you all eight names but I'm almost certain there were no Chinese and 
>Indians mentioned at all. Tell me who were Chinese among the eight. Give 
>me the names!
>

Heh, I think you are asking the wrong person, youngwhan.  This man already
cried wolf several times.  I don't think we will get anywhere.

>
>youngwhan.

Andy T Kim