HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Wed, 2 Sep 1992 17:09:56 IST
From:         Lew Golan <LEW@TAUNIVM.BITNET>
Subject:      okay?

Lisamarie --

     Although you quoted Bryce and said you agreed with him, I wonder
whether you understood the last sentence you quoted from his message:

>> In other words, being deaf in whatever degree is always going to be a
>> negative idea to people who can hear. I for one cannot argue that
>> their perception is misguided.

     He's saying, in a rather roundabout way, that he, too, believes that
deafness is a negative, and that hearing people are correct in perceiving
it that way.
     I don't know whether you agree with that last sentence, but you closed
by saying:

> I needed to get to know other deaf people before I felt that I was okay
> just the way I was....and that I wasn't a hearing person with a set of
> broken ears.

     I am a hearing person with a set of completely broken, totally useless
ears.
     And I feel that I am okay just the way I am.
     These perceptions are not contradictory or mutually exclusive -- yet
you used them (and other people repeatedly use them) as though they were.

     I am a hearing person with a set of completely broken, totally useless
ears.
     Yet I have no lack of self-esteem. On the contrary, I have an
insufferably huge ego -- the result of a string of accomplishments far
beyond what most hearing people have achieved.

     I am a hearing person with a set of completely broken, totally useless
ears.
     I recognize this fact, and I accept it. I do not try to stick my head
in the semantic sand and deny that in one specific area I am, yes,
impaired/disabled/handicapped/deficient/deviant in the real world.
     So who's perfect?
     I don't dwell on it. I don't bitch and moan about it. I don't let it
run my life. But yes, I recognize and accept it.

     To be a hearing person with a set of broken ears does NOT mean that
I am not okay.
     And I didn't have to know other deaf people to find that out.
     All I had to do was compare myself with people on the basis of other
factors. There is a lot more to life than the issue of whether you can
hear.

     Everybody has both positive and negative aspects. What counts is not
an absence of negatives (there's no such animal), but the bottom line --
making your positives outweigh your negatives, so that the bottom line is
that you're okay.
     Those who try to call a negative a positive for the sake of so-called
self-esteem (no, Lisamarie, I'm not saying YOU do this) are deluding
themselves, and only themselves. Such newspeak fools no one else.

     I am a hearing person with an undeniable negative aspect: a pair of
broken ears.
     Yes, I'm deficient in that department -- off the chart, in fact.
     But the bottom line is that I'm quite okay, thank you. And not just in
my own eyes, but in the eyes of quite a few people who know me.
     Yes, it's possible to be a hearing person with a set of broken ears
AND be okay.

Lew Golan, Tel-Aviv University <lew@vm.tau.ac.il>
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Mon, 31 Aug 1992 21:31:39 EDT
From:         "Dave Windley, Data Comm Specialist X799" <AADW@CATCC.BITNET>
Subject:      Military spending...or not
X-To:         DEAF-L%SIUCVMB.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu

> Don't think it doesn't happen!  Remember that it is the military
> budget that maintains these free computer networks!  And they don't
> even have to shove you off a sopbox anymore.  They could *audit* you!
> horrors!
> Annie

      Annie:

      I thought that Deaf_L was a private network, not related to
      the Government, CIA, et. al.  I subscribe through BITNET, and
      my work/school pays the $1000/month subscription fee.  Does
      this screening go on only when you use biggies like Internet,
      Arpanet, J-net and that like?
======================================================================
   Dave Windley,                       Catonsville Community College
      Data Communications Specialist          800 South Rolling Road
      Sign Interpreter                     CATONSVILLE MD 21228-9987
      GLBO Co-Founder                          Voice: (410) 455-4799
      ITR Club Vice President                             AADW@CATCC
======================================================================
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Mon, 31 Aug 1992 10:19:18 -0700
From:         Vicki Brown <vlb@MAGIC.AUX.APPLE.COM>
Subject:      Re: Electronic communication
X-To:         DEAF LIST <DEAF-L%SIUCVMB.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.edu>

>Brenda Monene (/PN=BRENDA.L.MONENE/O=DEAFTEK/ADMD=TELEMAIL/C=US/@SPRINT.COM):

>Electronic ordering and communication to organizations and agencies of the
>deaf is available now.

>Deaftek.USA is comprised of organizations, agencies, individuals, schools,
>university programs, professionals and service providers serving the deaf and
>hard of hearing communities.

This is great.  The addressing is awful, but the idea is fantastic.  Ain't
technology wonderful?!

  Vicki Brown
  A/UX Development Group            Apple Computer, Inc., Cupertino, CA
  Internet: vlb@apple.com           AppleLink: VICKI.BROWN
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Thu, 3 Sep 1992 09:49:17 -0700
From:         Vicki Brown <vlb@MAGIC.AUX.APPLE.COM>
Subject:      Re: Electronic communication
              03 Sep 92 10:56:57 +0200. <9209030159.AA10458@apple.com>

> Yong Che  <yckim@sorak.kaist.ac.kr> writes:

> let's not forget that with all the conveniences at hand lots of
> people still loathe to shift to the new technology.

True.  But at the turn of the century many people were without telephones.
("Hey, we just put in one of those newfangled Telephone instruments")
Yet a 1991 survey by the Electronic Industries Association found that 99% of
American homes now contain telephones (29% contain computers).  We'll get
there.

The 3 year old son of friends of ours knows how to operate the family VCR to
play his own videotapes.  When I was 3 years old there were no videotapes, no
VCRs, we had a big black & white television and no cable!  Things sure change!

  Vicki Brown
  A/UX Development Group            Apple Computer, Inc., Cupertino, CA
  Internet: vlb@apple.com           AppleLink: VICKI.BROWN
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Sat, 29 Aug 1992 13:32:11 EDT
From:         Annie Senghas <annie@PSYCHE.MIT.EDU>
Subject:      Brandt-bashing

I don't think it's fair to scold Cathy for not posting a response to
the "hearing impaired" issue.  In fact, I was pleased with how the
discussion moved from an attack on Cathy to a discussion about
terminology and what people found inoffensive, accurate, and
appropriate in different cases.  As Cathy points out, she did respond.
I would add that she took a sincere concern to the issue, indicated
that she was attending to people's comments, and tried to apply these
comments to how she lives her real, daily life.

That takes far more efforts that defensive flaming limited to the
computer screen.

-Annie
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: DEAF-L@SIUCVMB.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"DEAF-L%SIUCVMB.BITNET@vaxf.colorado.edu"
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Thu, 3 Sep 1992 09:50:00 -0700
From:         "Bryce Carey, CNS,
              Admin. Sys. Group" <CAREY_B@CUBLDR.COLORADO.EDU>
Subject:      Re: tongue shape

From: Carey_b@cubldr.colorado.edu

>The letter "y" can sound like a vowel, but it is still a consonant.
>(Just looking for fun...)
>
>Henry
>
>adler@mscf.med.penn.edu

Henry,

There are a number of so called consonants that are 'vowel-like'
such as the liquids, 'l' 'r' and the nasal 'm' 'n'

I am not a speech expert. I would like to know what constitutes the
definition of a vowel? It seems to me that the 'true' consonants
are all un-voiced, whereas all vowels are distinctively voiced,
and all the 'vowel-like' consonants are voiced. Therefore rather
than discriminating a, e, i, o, u, as vowels I would discriminate between
voiced and unvoiced and PERHAPS make some further discrimination
based on whether one can sustain the voiced phoneme as an identifiable
sound.

For example, most unvoiced consonants are of the nature of 'clicks'
whereas most (all) vowels are of the nature of sinusoid waves. Of
course there are fricatives 'F' sibilants 'S' but these are of the nature
of white noise and tend to be distinquished by frequency (hence problems
with telephonic speech that is band limited between 300 Hz and 3300 Hz.
while 's' tends to occur around 6,000-10,000 Hz as I recall.)

Therefore, I am wondering if we could derive a useful speech sound
classification method by classifying sounds according to their
waveform characteristics?

I seem to recall reading of studies that can fool the ear/brain into
identifying consonants by substituting clicks with proper rise or
fall timing into a vowel sound.

Does anyone care to enlighten me further?

-Bryce
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Sat, 29 Aug 1992 04:41:21 EDT
From:         -- <sipb7@ATHENA.MIT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Interesting conversation....
X-To:         DEAF LIST <DEAF-L%SIUCVMB.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
              16 Aug 92 17:46:55 -0500. <9208162243.AA07202@Athena.MIT.EDU>

    Lisa Babik says:
    I had an interesting conversation last night, with a hearing friend of
    mine....  She said that she didn't think [a certain man] was really
    deaf or totally deaf because he could speak.  Apparently it had never
    occurred to her that we deafies speak!  (Yeah, yeah, yeah....I
    know....only the ones who were nabbed by oral schools or who became
    deaf later...  :-) )

Count your blessings.

A few weeks ago, I went to a high-stakes Bingo game[*] with a
deaf-blind group (and some hearing and Deaf interpreters[**]).  One of
the workers in the Bingo parlor was a near-perfect example of a
Clueless Hearie.  On top of all the ignorant questions she asked, one
conversation between CH and a Deaf interpreter (through a hearing
interpreter) went something like this:

CH: (Facing the hearing interpreter.)  Haven't I seen you on TV?
DI: I don't think so.  I was on one talk show, as a member of a panel
    of people with disabilities, but nothing else.
CH: No, I'm *positive* I've seen you on TV!

Not Having a Clue is one thing, but Stubbornly Refusing to Accept a
Clue is, well...worse.  And every question she asked us had something
to do with deafness, which is (in *my* white male hearing *opinion*
repeat *my* *opinion*) rude--almost as if we were a traveling exhibit
of broken ears with interpreters attached.  She didn't show any
interest in the deaf and deaf-blind people there as human beings with
any other characteristics.

Maybe I'm just getting cranky in my old (23 next month) age.  Or maybe
I like flaming about her stupidity because it makes me seem wise by
comparison.

[*]  Specifically, Foxwoods, a casino on Indian-owned land in
Connecticut.  Out of curiosity, I asked another worker there what
percentage of Foxwoods employees are Native Americans; he said, "It's
so small, I don't think it's even a percentage."  Actually, if his
estimate is correct, it's between 3 and 5 percent.  Maybe there's
something in the water down there that affects the brain.  :-)

[**] In case you don't know how this works: The Deaf interpreters act
as relay interpreters between their deaf-blind clients and any signers
that the clients can't see clearly.

--
::: A fundamentalist preacher who can't read Hebrew deserves as much  :::
::: attention as a heart surgeon who has never handled a stethoscope. :::
seth gordon  <sipb7@athena.mit.edu>   . . . these opinions for rent
the learning center for deaf children . . . associate teacher-counselor
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Thu, 3 Sep 1992 10:30:03 -0400
From:         Miriam Clifford <DMIMI@ECSVAX.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Progress

Sorry, just posted again without putting my name on it.  Or is my name line
being attached now?

dmimi@ecsvax.uncecs.edu  dmimi@ecsvax.bitnet
Miriam (Mimi) Clifford; 2535 Sevier St, Durham, NC 27705; 919-489-4821
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Via: uk.ac.ulster.upvax; Wed, 2 Sep 1992 14:16:22 +0100
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Wed, 2 Sep 1992 14:19:00 BST
From:         DDBT23@UPVAX.ULSTER.AC.UK
Subject:      tongue shape
X-To:         DEAF-L <DEAF-L@SIUCVMB.SIU.EDU>

John,

	Tongue shape has been constructed from the speech signal alone
in my case by the modelling of the vocal tract as a dynamic tube. By doing
that, you can extract the tube resonances, or formant frequencies and thus
with a little luck produce a tongue shape. Some use the signal to calculate
area functions along the vocal tract to calculate the displacement of the
tongue from the semi-rigid roof of the mouth and tract. In my case I am using
an easier method which applies to vowels only.i.e. using an empirical
relationship to describe displacement of thetongue at different points from the
roof of the tract (although it assumes that at the start of the tract and the
end (i.e. tongue root and tip) remain stationary (oops)). Well, I
did say that it applied to vowels only, for now.

	We did consider using a new model in order to produce a 3D display of
the tract in real time (just as a bent acoustic tube displayed in 3D), but can
think of no use for such a prototype at the moment. Feedback we have received
here suggests that a 3D model would not be as easily interpreted for speech
therapy, although it MIGHT be of use for teaching purposes (?). We might
therefore go a different direction altogether, like modelling the basilar
membrane within the human ear to see what 'makes it tick' more properly. This
could have deaf applications in the future. However I don't know much about
that strand at the moment. Any ideas?

	Regards,

	Martin Powderly

	ddbt23@upvax.ulster.ac.uk

	"Like think it twice but never,never learn"
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Thu, 3 Sep 1992 11:48:22 EDT
From:         Annie Senghas <annie@PSYCHE.MIT.EDU>
Subject:      true story

I swear it's true!  My father read this story in his local newspaper
in Maine, and told me about it.  I find it lends itself wonderfully to
ASL.

-------

A woman goes to her doctor, and tells him, "Lately I have lost
all the hearing in my right ear."

So he gets out his otoscope, peers into her ear, and pulls out a
gushy, gel-like translucent object.  "Heavens!" he exclaims.  "You
have a suppository in your ear!"

"Oh, my!"  The patient replies.  "Now I wonder what I might have
done with my hearing aid?"
-------

heehee :*)

Annie (annie@psyche.mit.edu)
From: garvey@skybridge.SCL.CWRU.Edu (Heather Garvey)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Subject: Re: Progress
Date: 1 Sep 1992 21:28:31 GMT
Organization: Smith Undergrad Lab, CWRU, Cleve. OH
NNTP-Posting-Host: colima.scl.cwru.edu
X-Post-Machine: colima.scl.cwru.edu

Miriam Clifford <DMIMI@ECSVAX.BITNET> writes:
>Don't know who  the post from athena.MIT.EDU that said "Someday, you may
>apply to one of them for a job.  Let the flamer beware" but it was certainly
>difficult to understand.  Which flamer about which topic?  The subject
>(Re: Progress) didn't help much either.  But the message that got to me
>was, "my gosh, he's threatening us!"  Shades of Nazi Germany.  Now we can't
>express an opinion about something (or even someone) without being
>threatened with violence?  I'm not so unrealistic that I don't realize that
>many do threaten and/or use violence to get their way, but I didn't expect
>it among the intelligent and usually well educated net users.  From MIT.EDU
>yet!

	That was certainly not a threat! It was a fact of life. If you
portray yourself as someone who cannot hold calm, polite rational 
conversations/debates on topics, who would want to hire you? For instance,
I may never flame *you*, Miriam, but what if you see me flaming people
left and right and generally being belligerent and hard to get along
with? If my resume came across your desk, would you want to hire me?
I might be skilled, but I'm sure there would be plenty of skilled
applicants who AREN'T rude and flaming.
	You wouldn't be acting out of a sense of revenge, but rather
from a studied, rational look at the face I present to the world.
Would you want me representing your company? That comment was meant
to remind people that there are others behind the computer terminals
and one should exercize the same manners one does when in front of
a Live Person(TM).


--
	" ...dealing with Free-Net makes me very angry  | Heather "Moose"
and gives me thoughts of breaking things and torturing  | Garvey, Biochem 93'
small animals. "   --  Bruce Ikenaga <bxi@po.cwru.edu>  | <hlg@po.cwru.edu>
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Mon, 31 Aug 1992 16:46:22 -0600
From:         /PN=BRENDA.L.MONENE/O=DEAFTEK/ADMD=TELEMAIL/C=US/@SPRINT.COM
Subject: Re: Electronic communication

 <"KGJC-5396-5874/36"*/PN=BRENDA.L.MONENE/O=DEAFTEK/ADMD=TELEMAIL/C=US/@sprint.c
 om>

Just write an alias for Deaftek.USA users.  Please note that as of Sept. 1st
(tomorrow), the DCARA address will change to:

/c=us/admd=telemail/o=deaftek/dd.un=jack.levesque/@sprint.com

Brenda Monene
Deaftek.USA

Internet: /c=us/admd=telemail/o=deaftek/dd.un=b.monene/@sprint.com
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Tue, 1 Sep 1992 14:57:46 EDT
From:         Mireille Caissy <M104540@UQAM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: questions, a few, have i.
              31 Aug 1992 09:20:11 EDT from <esther@DEMAND.ED.RAY.COM>

Dear Esther,

If it was not for Mimi ( Miriam) who is already called that, I could use it
myself, because I know how it's difficult for English speaking people to
remember my name....It's MIREILLE ! But I sign MC on another list anyway...

Yes, alot of Deaf here that know LSQ can manage in ASL, except for the spelling
 much to quick for us because we don't use it often here. And all the ones
who go reguliary to the States know some Deaf there, so I am sure that they
can "survive" without LSQ interpreter !

For what I know of the portuguese sign language, it can look like other western
sign languages( so our, ASl, LSF...) But I have not a clue about the cambodian
one.

Bye, bye....

Mireille Caissy, Montreal, Quebec (Can.) M104540@UQAM.Bitnet.Ca
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Via: uk.ac.ulster.upvax; Wed, 2 Sep 1992 13:29:05 +0100
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Wed, 2 Sep 1992 13:31:00 BST
From:         DDBT23@UPVAX.ULSTER.AC.UK
Subject:      personal bio (revamped)
X-To:         DEAF-L <DEAF-L@SIUCVMB.SIU.EDU>

Hiya all,,
	Ok, well I received some interest on the project of mine here in Ulster,
so I will give you a more detailed explanation of the subject of the project.

	The project consists of the design of a speech training device for the
deaf which can be used to correct speech abnormalities within deaf speech. It
consists of a standard microphone wired into a signal processing board which in
 turn is mounted inside a computer host. When the hearing impaired speak into
 themic, real-time signal processing routines on the board process the speech
 and
extract parameters from it in order that the tongue shape can be displayed on
screen in real time. I currently have a prototype system in operation operating
in real time, but this display is for the correction of vowels only at the
moment. It was known to us that one of the first characteristics of speech that
was to deteriorate were the vowel sounds, and so it was logical that we should
start from there.

	An ultimate goal for this project would be the unaccompanied training
of deaf speech without a speech therapist present, and thus we decided that
an approach which would suit us was the display of a mid-sagittal section of
the head (i.e. a vertical slice through the head sideways-on).

	We are not sure where we should go from here, what other functions
should be incorporated into the system, etc. Any ideas?

	A bit more about myself...
	I have a degree in Electronic Systems Engineering with the University
	of Ulster, and am currently working for a DPhil (a PhD equivalent),
	this project being the whole work area on which it is based. As you
	can see, I don't have a background in speech therapy, etc.

	Any feedback would be appreciated,

	Regards,

	Martin Powderly

	ddbt23@upvax.ulster.ac.uk

	"Like think it twice, but never, never learn"
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Wed, 2 Sep 1992 23:39:58 EDT
From:         -- <sipb7@ATHENA.MIT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: questions, a few, have i.
X-To:         DEAF LIST <DEAF-L%SIUCVMB.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
              31 Aug 92 09:20:11 -0400. <9209012124.AA08456@Athena.MIT.EDU>

I've seen three signs used to mean "sex", which I will gloss as follows:

#SEX: fingerspelled S-E-X, except the hand isn't in the standard
      position for spelling.

SEX:  the index finger of the "X" handshape traces a vertical line
      down the cheek.

FUG:  (apologies to Norman Mailer) two hands in the "V" handship
      strike one another, like two bodies lying on top of each other.

(ASL seems to have a rich vocabulary of other terms relating to
specific sexual practices, but this is a family mailing list.  :-)

The _Dictionary of American Sign Lanugage_ (ed. Bellugi and someone
else) only lists FUG, and does not mark it as obscene.  Perhaps FUG
was the only sign for sex in common use 15 years ago, when that
dictionary was compiled, and the Ohio deaf had made up their sign for
AKRON before the SEX sign arrived.

There's a sign for "to shave one's face" that uses the "X" handshape
and looks almost identical to SEX.  I avoid using it.

--
::: A fundamentalist preacher who can't read Hebrew deserves as much  :::
::: attention as a heart surgeon who has never handled a stethoscope. :::
seth gordon  <sipb7@athena.mit.edu>   . . . these opinions for rent
the learning center for deaf children . . . associate teacher-counselor
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Tue, 1 Sep 1992 23:24:07 EDT
From:         "Dave Windley, Data Comm Specialist X799" <AADW@CATCC.BITNET>
Subject:      Wonderful but limited technology

Vicki writes about DeafTech:

> This is great.  The addressing is awful, but the idea is fantastic.  Ain't
> technology wonderful?!

      It is a great idea.  Too bad that our limited computer
      connectivity does not permit us to use it.  We have only the
      very limited BITNET access.  It gives us DEAF_L subscriptions
      and some others, but not much more.

      :-(
======================================================================
   Dave Windley,                       Catonsville Community College
      Data Communications Specialist          800 South Rolling Road
      Sign Interpreter                     CATONSVILLE MD 21228-9987
      GLBO Co-Founder                          Voice: (410) 455-4799
      ITR Club Vice President                             AADW@CATCC
======================================================================
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