From: gideon@farli.otago.ac.nz (Gideon King)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Assurance of salvation
Date: 21 Jan 93 08:56:17 GMT
Reply-To: gideon@farli.otago.ac.nz

In article <Jan.17.00.52.39.1993.3345@geneva.rutgers.edu>  writes:
! Frank, I thought I would give you what I believe is the answer to your
! question about assurance of salvation. First of all, what is it that
! caused Adam, and thus ourselves, to become lost in the first place? I
! think you would agree that the answer is sin.  Ok, so when Jesus went
! to the cross, he took away ALL of our sins: "Their sins and their
! lawless deeds I will remember no more" (Heb. 10:17) and "but he,
! having offered ONE sacrifice for sins for ALL time, sat down at the
! right hand of God" (Heb 10:12).
! 
! When the Lord took away our sins for all time, he cleared the way for
! His Holy Spirit to live in us. Could we then die again because we
! turned away?  The answer is no, because the only thing that can
! separate us from God is sin. And where are the sins of those who are
! born-again? They have been taken away by the sacrifice of Jesus once
! for all time, for all men. This why we cannot lose our salvation,
! regardless of whether we turn away or not.
! 
! Also, we always hear this question about those who turn away, but
! honestly, if a person comes to a true understanding of the
! UNCONDITIONAL love and grace of God, I would have a hard time
! believing that one would turn away from it.

Hang on a minute, I think there are a few points you are missing in this  
argument. I'll try not to make it too long, but there are a number of  
passages I would like to point out to you.

There are temporary and ultimate ways in which the word "saved" is used in  
the Bible, and these should not be mixed up. 

An example of the first way is in Jude 5 where it says that God "having  
saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that  
believed not.". This is a temporary salvation, like being rescued after  
getting trapped in the mountains: you are saved, but it adds nothing to  
you as far as eternal salvation is concerned.

Secondly, "saved" is used in the past tense referring to the sacrificial  
work of Christ or when a believer avails themselves of that sacrifice by  
baptism:
  1. the sacrifice of Christ in the plan of God: (2 Tim 1:9) "Who hath  
saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works,  
but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Jesus  
Christ before the world began.
  2. the believer's acceptance of divine salvation at baptism: (Titus 3:5)  
"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his  
mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy  
Spirit"

Third, "saved" in the present tense (continuous tense in the Greek) -  
these passages indicate that salvation is a continuing process throughout  
the believer's life:
  1. "...and the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved"  
(Acts 2:47)
  2. "For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness;  
but unto us which are saved {i.e. being saved, as correctly put by the  
RSV}, it is the power of God." (1 Cor 1:18)
  3. "By which salvation ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I  
preached unto you..." (1 Cor 15:2) i.e. totally conditional.

Fourthly, "saved" in the future tense, and ultimate sense:
  1. "...but he that endureth to the end shall be saved." (Matt 10:22)  
i.e. you must stick with it to be saved.
  2. "Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; and continue in them:  
for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee."  
(1 Tim 4:16). Timothy was obviously not already permanently saved - his  
salvation was future, and conditional on keeping to the faith and  
searching out and keeping to correct doctrine.

In the past, God manifested His great salvation in the person and work of  
Christ. this is appropriated by the believer at baptism. A life of  
discipleship follows in which the salvation is worked out in fashioning a  
new character and way of life more acceptable to God. It is not until the  
day of judgement that one is ultimately saved. It is, therefore,  
presumptuous for man to consider himselfunalterably reserved for eternal  
life before that time. If you think about it, saying this means no  
requirement for judgement, of which we know from Scripture that there will  
be one. Also, who are we to determine that we are saved? (read Matt  
25:31-46, 7:21-23 Luke 13:26-27 for the answer).

If you read Heb 3:12-19, the believers are there warned in very strong  
terms about departing from their belief, and there is a warning in the  
reference to the children of Israel coming out of Egypt - they died in the  
wilderness without entering into the promised land because of their  
unbelief. It is obvious that this is applied to our hope of salvation: we  
must continue to follow after ways of righteousness to be saved.

Also in Heb 6:4-6, it says that once believers fall away, it is impossible  
for them to regain repentance. Now there are other passages that give  
examples of people who did leave the church, or were put out of it for  
wrong doctrine, who were received back in again when they saw the errors  
of their ways. This passage is therefore talking about people who totally  
reject God and desecrate His name, after coming to a full knowledge of His  
plan and purpose.

Seing as Heb 10 was quoted by the previous poster, let's have a look a bit  
later in the chapter, where the issue is explained - verses 26 to 29. "For  
if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth,  
there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins....". So you see that the  
sacrifice of Christ is only effective for you while you walk in His ways.  
All these passages from Hebrews are specifically talking to believers in  
God and Jesus Christ.

To take another tack, we know that the Apostle Paul was not saved when he  
had seen the light from heaven, as he was told to be baptized to wash away  
his sins after that (Acts 22:10,16). Now after this, we see that he again  
acknowledges that he is not already saved "...If by any means I might  
attain unto the resurrection of the dead. not as though I had already  
attained, either were already prefect...Brethren, I count myself not to  
have apprehended..." (Phil 3:10-13). He also talks about the possibility  
of being a "castaway" if he didn't keep himself in subjection (1 Cor  
9:27). Is this the sort of language of someone who knows that they are  
already saved?

Another slightly different approach is to look at "hope". Paul said "That  
being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the  
hope of eternal life" (Titus 3:7). He defines hope explicitly in Rom 8:24  
as "hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet  
hope for?". If the Apostle had already been assured of eternal security,  
why was he in hope of eternal life?

There are two sides to salvation: divine grace, and human faith. Salvation  
is a free gift from God, but we must comply with the conditions.

I could write lots more, but I'll see if there is any discussion on this  
first. I hope it makes things a bit clearer. And as to my denomination, I  
am a Christadelphian (means brother in Christ).

--
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Gideon King                         | Phone +64-3-479 8347
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