From: rmk@rmkhome.UUCP (Rick Kelly)
Organization: The Man With Ten Cats
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 16:54:52 GMT
Reply-To: rmkhome!rmk@mrtk.com (Rick Kelly)

In article <ATAYLOR.93Jan5134603@gauss.nmsu.edu> ataylor@nmsu.edu (Nosy) writes:
><In article <9301021305.12@rmkhome.UUCP> rmk@rmkhome.UUCP (Rick Kelly) writes:
><   In article <1993Jan1.003233.6757@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> andy@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (Andy Freeman) writes:
><   >[While Kelly doesn't know about it, there is a lot of research on gun
><   > control.  See Kleck's Point Blank for far more info than you'll ever
><   > need.]
><   >
><   >In article <9212311249.09@rmkhome.UUCP> rmk@rmkhome.UUCP (Rick Kelly) writes:
><   >>What most people in this thread want is the right for anyone to just
><   >>walk into Fred's Gun Store, plunk down the money, and walk out with
><   >>the gun and ammo of choice.
><   >
><   >Since there don't seem to be any benefits to policies other than that,
><   >what's so unreasonable about it?
>
><   I believe there is some benefit in determining if a person is
>,   psychologically able to take on the responsibility of owning
><   a handgun.
>
>	Then why isn't Kelly also demanding licensing for cars;
>	automobiles are used to cause more deaths than firearms
>	every year.

I don't know about the laws where you live but cars and drivers here are
licensed/registered, and cars get a title search before the registration
is granted.

><   >>I maintain that I wouldn't want to live in a state like that, as it
><   >>would rapidly turn into a scenario like Beirut.
><   >
><   >Yet, the states where one can just walk in and buy a gun don't have
><   >much crime - they're less like Beirut* than Boston is.  If guns are
><   >the problem, how come the problems are where the guns aren't?
>
><   Most of the gunshots that are fired in Boston are crack dealers
><   shooting at other crack dealers.
>
>	Said crack dealers do not obtain their firearms through
>	legal channels, now do they?

The point is, for the city of Boston, if you ignore the crack dealers
shooting at other crack dealers, then the number of actual violent crimes
involving guns drops considerably.

If you take the town of Framingham, population 65000, where I live, and
where crack and heroin dealers also trade, then you might conclude that
there is basically no violent crime involving guns.

><   >We happen to know that criminals don't acquire guns at gun stores.
><   >(It's easy enough to do the relevant research.)  Therefore, controls
><   >on stores are, at best, like looking for your keys under a street
><   >light when you know that you lost them somewhere else.  Sure the light
><   >is good there, but you're wasting your time.
><   >
><   >We can't win a gun war any more than we can win a drug war.  How many
><   >people should we jail to satisfy Kelly's bigotry?  (BTW - He's also
><   >misstated the way MA's gun laws work for honest law-abiding people.)
>
><   Apparently, the appeal process has changed over the last decade.  It's
><   been a long time since anyone I know had to go through it.
>
><   You seem to imply that if EVERYONE had a gun, there would be no crime
><   and no shots fired.
>
>	Hardly. On the other hand, those states with so-called "lax"
>	gun laws *DO* have less violent crime than such garden spots
>	as Washington, DC, New York, Chicago and so forth.

Compare population density.

><   And, of course, untrained idiots who bought a gun at K-Mart would never
><   hurt themselves or anyone else by mistake.
>
>	Can Kelly show where anyone asserted this?

Huh?  Are you saying that people are born with the genetic talent to use
guns in a safe manner?

><   And your belief that no one legally buys a gun and then does something
><   illegal with it is ridiculous.
>
>	The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, Department of
>	the Treasury, surveyed about 900 convicted felons.
>	Over 90% of them stated they obtained their firearms from
>	a source OTHER than a licensed dealer.

Of that 90%, how many of them already had a record when they bought
illegal firearms?

><  Read a newspaper.
>
>	One of those publications that use such terms as
>	"automatic revolver", "Semi-automatic assault rifle",
>	"saturday night special"? One of *those* paragons
>	of factual accuracy?
><
>
>	If Kelly can point to a newspaper that doesn't sensationalize
>	any story having to do with firearms, I'll try reading it.

If reported cases of gun violence are all sensationalized nonsense, then
I guess no one needs guns.

-- 

Rick Kelly    rmkhome!rmk@merk.com    merk!rmkhome!rmk    rmk@frog.UUCP
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns