HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bevans@carina.unm.edu (Mathemagician)
Subject: Re: Feminists ignore Cosmetics?
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 92 07:42:03 GMT
Organization: Society for the Preservation of E. coli
Distribution: usa

In article <1992Aug28.204754.8256@umr.edu> asparrow@mcs213f.cs.umr.edu (Angelia Sparrow) writes:
>A psych prof I had once ran some experiments.
>She was seeing whether men put as much emphasis on makeup as women.
>She took pictures of women made up and then had them wash their faces
>before another picture was taken.

>However, when pictures were shown to a group of men, most could not
>tell the difference between clean and madeup.

Well, maybe it's because I have had quite a bit of makeup training,
but I can usually tell, given an opportunity to take a good look, if a
person is wearing a base (skin isn't normally even in coloration and
texture.)  Eyeliner can be difficult if it's "done right" (I am a
master at doing my eyeliner so subtly that it's hard to tell it's
there...usually because, as an actor, I don't want my makeup to read as
makeup from the audience) and if the lip color closely matches their
normal coloring, that can be hard, too.

But, I'm not that surprised by the results.  Most of the people I know
who use makeup as an "everyday" thing don't look that different from
their non-made-up appearance...usually because they don't use much
more than base, a bit of blush, maybe some mascara/eyeliner.  My
sister went to modeling school and I've seen her collection of
"professional" makeup:  Eye shadows, blushes, lip color, mascaras, eye
liners, eyebrow pencils...she rarely used it outside of photo shoots
or when she was trying to "look dramatic."  Why?  It's too much of a
hassle to "do it all."

Unless these women had dramatic characteristics (e.g., birth marks) to
cover up, I doubt that they looked that different from their "street
makeup" to their clean faces.

>Angel, who always wanted to run an experiment with veils and see how
>many wore makeup even under an opaque veil.

Talk to your psych professor and find out!

-- 
Brian Evans                |     "Bad mood, bad mood...Sure I'm in a bad mood!
bevans@carina.unm.edu      |      I haven't had sex...*EVER!*" -- Virgin Mary
From: deannab@hpmwtd.sr.hp.com (Deanna Bergstrom)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 18:45:32 GMT
Subject: Re: FEMALE GYMNASTS
Organization: HP Santa Rosa Site (NMD MTA MWTD)
Newsgroups: soc.women

 shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Mary Shafer) writes:

>Is it possible that the difference between male and female gymnasts
>is that the males are doing things that require more strength so 
>that they are post-pubescent?  It seems to me that the female events
>are less strength oriented than the male events.

>Examples of this are the differences between vaulting and the side
>horse, or the balance beam and the rings.

>If this is the case, then the males would naturally start training
>later and they would have different kinds of injuries.

----------


It's been 23 or 24 years since I competed in women's gymnastics in high
school, and the rules/judges may have changed since then, but we were
told by our coach that we would be penalized for "shows of strength",
that we were to achieve what we did by being coordinated and graceful.

Listening to Olympic commentators on TV, however, leads me to believe
this may have changed.  "That was a very strong dismount" or "Look at
the strength and height in that tumbling run".

But still, strength is certainly less important in women's than in
men's gymnastics, and so I think Mary is correct in her question, above.

-Deanna
deannab@sr.hp.com
Newsgroups: soc.women
From: shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Mary Shafer)
Subject: Re: FEMALE GYMNASTS
Organization: NASA Dryden, Edwards, Cal.
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 18:37:55 GMT

Is it possible that the difference between male and female gymnasts
is that the males are doing things that require more strength so 
that they are post-pubescent?  It seems to me that the female events
are less strength oriented than the male events.

Examples of this are the differences between vaulting and the side
horse, or the balance beam and the rings.

If this is the case, then the males would naturally start training
later and they would have different kinds of injuries.

--
Mary Shafer  DoD #0362 KotFR NASA Dryden Flight Research Facility, Edwards, CA
shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov                    Of course I don't speak for NASA
 "There's no kill like a guns kill." LCDR "Hoser" Satrapa, gunnery instructor
                       "A kill is a kill."  Anonymous
Newsgroups: soc.women
From: bev@opusc.csd.scarolina.edu (Beverly Huntsberger)
Subject: Re: Hating Men with Full Force
Organization: Univ. of South Carolina, Columbia
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 19:14:13 GMT

In <4270022@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com> kurts@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Kurt Strain) writes:

>In soc.women, shore@theory.TC.Cornell.EDU (Melinda Shore) writes:


>I think radical feminists and lesbian separatists are indeed making 
>general anti-male statements.  The woman who made those misandrous
>remarks claims from the start to be a feminist.  And from all I ever 
>read from you, a "feminist bisexual" (I gather from your posts), there has 
>never been heard an encouraging word toward anyone in general.  How

	The falicy in your thinking is obvious. You're equating
	feminist to radical feminist and bisexual to lesbian separatist.
	See how simple it is to be prejudiced when you're angry?

	Bev	(I should know :)
	
-- 
Bev Huntsberger		bev@grover.csd.scarolina.edu
			The University of SOUTH Carolina
Personally, I have nothing against incumbents.
I'm simply exercising my right to vote.
From: slarsen@monet.helios.nd.edu (susan larsen)
Newsgroups: soc.women
Subject: Re: Hating Men with Full Force
Date: 26 Aug 92 15:23:45 GMT
Organization: University of Notre Dame, Notre Dame

In article <1992Aug25.210532.8655@ultb.isc.rit.edu> kls4344@ritvax.isc.rit.edu writes:
>
>Maybe these people are not as "serious" as Shore and I view them to be, but
>this bitching has been going on for some time now.
>
>>Interestingly enough, if you turn Shore's remark around, I tend to agree
>>with it more.
>>
>>"I'm not surprised there are men who hate women.  What surprisies me is which
>>men hate women.  No, it isnt the homosexuals - its the heterosexual husbands
>>and divorced men who engage in outrageous woman bashing":
>
>What I don't understand is why you would agree that this arrangement is
>possible and Shore's original isn't.  For me, they are counterpoints to one
>another, keeping each other alive.  My personal experience supports Shore's
>remark; come and talk with the secretaries in my building, talk with the clerks
>in the local chain grocery store, talk with the mothers who have both Ph.D.s
>and small children.  Many put their men down.  I do see a chasm between men and
>women, a situation where many women are just now gathering steam for taking
>back whatever they want by first beefing about it.  I don't always agree with
>their approach because I feel that bashing men to other people often serves no
>purpose and I wish everyone would work to resolve conflicts and rough spots. 

I would have to agree with you on this, Katie.  In my dialog with women
at workbreaks, on the front porch, the store, anyplace where women gather
exclusive of men, man-bashing abounds.  And the most vocal at it are the 
"mainstream women" (as opposed to any hue of "feminist).  I think that 
some of the men who are claiming that such acts are "outrageous" and 
that net.women must be exaggerating are completely missing the point. 
This man-bashing DOES exist, and it happens so frequently that I believe 
that women use it as a female-bonding mechanism.  This is not a positive
situation, IMO, but just because we don't like to hear about it does 
not change the fact that it is happening.

Sue Larsen
slarsen@berlin.helios.nd.edu
Newsgroups: soc.women
From: sklautky@vaxa.weeg.uiowa.edu (Stephen Klautky)
Subject: Re: Re: Feminists ignore Cosmetics?....Why don't you guys get a JOB?
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 04:20:00 GMT

In article <73740001@hpsad.sad.hp.com>
sam@hpsad.sad.hp.com (Vicky Hansen) writes:

> I am not nearly as concerned with western women's use of cosmetics as I
> am with their 'need' to be scrawny.

Yes, I agree.  You will also notice that both aspects of that image
go hand in hand.  The two, makeup and thinness, seem to synergize giving
the bearer additional "beauty points" than the presence of one
characteristic alone.

> At 5'5" our society claims I should
> weigh in the neighborhood of 120lb.  Yet to maintain 20% body fat (that
> is the level recommended by the medical people), I need to weigh 150lb.

This sounds unusual to me.  You may be one of those (relatively rare)
people that has an odd metabolism.  On the average, though, the accepted
value sounds reasonable.  Keep in mind that while anorexia is common
in our society obesity is much more prevalent, not to mention poor
nutrition overall.  The need to be "scrawny" (a bad word for those
who are naturally slim, non?) does not work very well.  The effect it
has (IMHO) is on the emotional well-being of women and men.

> Men are allowed to carry a lot more excess weight before being considered 
> unattractive.

Yes, I agree here too.  But I think that it differs somewhat with age.
For a person in their teens and twenties it can be a social stigma to be
overweight.  When men get older they are "allowed" to be fatter.  Women,
however, do not get a similar break.

I think younger people consider it easier to allow a young overweight male
to be their friend than a similar young overweight female even though both
are considered unattractive.  I get this impression both from my own
reactions (when I was in high school) and from observing my peers.

-=] Steve [=-      SKLAUTKY@VAXA.WEEG.UIOWA.EDU

Xref: sparky soc.women:16148 alt.abortion.inequity:3520 talk.abortion:35019 soc.men:15934
From: linda@wendy.uucp (Linda Hill)
Newsgroups: soc.women,alt.abortion.inequity,talk.abortion,soc.men
Subject: Re: Father Notification Reconsidered
Date: 4 Sep 92 14:20:28 GMT
Followup-To: soc.women
Organization: Network Equipment Technologies

I responded to this and another post by Will via email and he kindly asked
me if I would post, since my comments may be of general interest.

WS>I disagree with your assertion
WS>that it forces all the responsibility on women, while men are free to "hop
WS>in an out of the sack willy nilly".

That was my husband's response, but it wasn't a responsibility I felt
burdened by.

WS>As things are currently, a man *cannot* do such a thing without fear of a
WS>paternity suit

This is where this discussion has really been an eye-opener for me.  You
know, I've heard of paternity suits with regard to celebrities without
paying them much attention.  It just never sunk in that this is an
outrageous power to give to someone over another person.  I was also
unaware of the amount of government interference there is in people's
personal lives (I assumed I could give the baby to the father automatically,
if I was unable/unwilling to raise it myself...).
 
I've mistakenly always looked at the issue as a personal matter between
two people.  I now know it's otherwise, and indeed something needs to be
changed!
 
In article <1992Sep3.025255.4014@zooid.guild.org> goid@zooid.guild.org (Will Steeves) writes:
>kendall@adobe.com (Janice Kendall) writes...
>JK>  I don't think the man has a right to know if the woman feels the best
>JK>  action for her situation is to abort.
>
WS>the woman does *not* have the right to
WS>"decide" to deny the father the right to know the full truth of what he is
WS>about to face.
 
You're not going to like what I have to say about this, and I apologize
because you've obviously been through a bad experience related to the
subject.
 
Two imaginary scenarios.  The first, a casual relationship, never intended
to go any further, and I knew my partner felt as you do - there's no way I
would _ever_ discuss my accidental pregnancy and subsequent abortion
with him.  Although abortion is a foregone conclusion to a failure of
birth control for me, it would still be a rough experience to have to go
through, and I wouldn't be able to deal with someone who couldn't support
that decision, or who would be devastated by it (like you were?).
 
In a serious relationship, I would definitely talk about it with my
partner, especially since it would be a topic we'd already discussed and
envisioned, in the event of a birth control failure.

I just can't see what good it would do to tell someone after the fact.
Either I would tell him from the moment I learned I was pregnant, or I
would never tell him at all.  It would depend entirely on what kind of
a commitment we had to each other.

linda@net.com
Newsgroups: soc.women
Subject: Re: Hating Men with Full Force
From: rivero@mdcbbs.com
Date: 1 Sep 92 15:29:02 GMT
 <1992Aug27.120558.12106@ultb.isc.rit.edu> <1992Aug29.045202.19480@cbnewsk.cb.att.com>
Organization: Electronic Data Systems, Unigraphics Division, Cypress CA
Nntp-Posting-User: riley

In article <1992Aug29.045202.19480@cbnewsk.cb.att.com>, noraa@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (aaron.l.hoffmeyer) writes:
> 
> She has also told me over and over that she is especially offended by
> my involvement with men's rights issues, and men's and children's
> groups.  Her term for the collective is "Nazi men's rights groups" - an
> interesting parallel to the "feminazi" label that often crops up here.

  Same here. My ex has expressed actual outrage that I would dare involve
myself with a father's rights group and discuss my marriage/divorce with
"outsiders". She has insisted that, since it WAS her decision to have the
abortion, I have no right whatsoever to discuss it. My assurances that
I have every right to discuss events in MY life that happen to me
fall on deaf ears. 


> I also
> don't believe men would pay to have women trash them over the phone.

  However, if they try and go bankrupt, it will be because of some male
conspiracy. Men are raised to accept their own failures. Women are not.
Men grow up learning to accept the third strike, the fumble, and the
out of bounds. Women don't have that experience, and as a result,
will point fingers at some conveninent target, usually the one sanctioned
by the feminist press. 

  Women who behave that way are very hard to fit into a team, and when 
they start to feel excluded, rather than question their own social skills, 
it's just time to point another finger at the rest of the
team.


<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
|  Michael Rivero rivero@mdcbbs.com  Middle-Aged Mutant Ninja Animator   |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Newsgroups: soc.women
From: dennisp@kpc.com (Dennis Preston)
Subject: Re: women's place in life
Organization: Kubota Pacific Computer Inc, Santa Clara, CA
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 21:33:24 GMT

In article <1992Aug28.115732.16261@zooid.guild.org> goid@zooid.guild.org (Will Steeves) writes:
>guthrie@nb.rockwell.com (Karen Guthrie) writes...
>KG> In article <1992Aug11.211255.18984@dragon.acadiau.ca>, 890530m@dragon.acadia
>KG>  (Darren MacKenzie) writes:
>KG> > Will Steeves <goid@zooid.guild.org> writes:
>KG> >
>KG> > >S_>         I am new to this group and I'd just thought I'd share my view
>KG> th
>KG> > >S_> you.  I think that all you women should get away from the computer an
>KG> art
>KG> > >S_> doing what you were created to do (kitchen, kids, and domesticated lo
>KG> lav
>KG> > >S_> Remember, you were made from our rib!
>KG> >
>KG> > >Flame bait...
>
>
This isn't even Flame bait. How can an IMBECILE be realistically flamed?
Come back when you grow up.
From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: soc.women
Subject: Re: Hating Men with Full Force
Date: 26 Aug 92 17:29:09 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <4270024@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com>, kurts@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Kurt Strain) writes:
> In soc.women, farthing@leland.Stanford.EDU (ljf) writes:
> 
>     In article <4270023@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com> kurts@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Kurt Strain) writes:
# # #Did you know that 80% of all US convicted criminals are of one ethnic
# # #background?  Then is it okay to declare loudly "I hate all ******s with full 
# # #force!!!" Your justification defending the stand to hate all men is just 
# # #the reasoning used by neo-Nazis and KKK members. 
# #
# # It's Crameresque.  You say all lesbigays are or support child
# # molesters because NAMBLA marches in some Gay Pride parades.  You say
# # all Republicans are racist because of David Duke.  You say all
# # feminists are man-haters because some are.
# 
# 
# What are you talking about?  Quit saying what I'm not sayin if you don't
# mind.

Ditto.  I've frequently emphasized that not "all lesbigays" support
child molestation, just because NAMBLA marches in gay parades, yet
ljf keeps making false statements about what I said.

I guess the alternative is for the gay community to tell NAMBLA
where to go.
-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
Alcohol prohibition didn't work; drug prohibition doesn't work; gun
prohibition won't work.
From: sam@hpsad.sad.hp.com (Vicky Hansen)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 13:17:35 GMT
Subject: Re: step-parable (was: Re: Am I a grandfather? You be the judge.)
Organization: HP Signal Analysis Division - Rohnert Park, CA
Newsgroups: soc.women

In soc.women, colombo@bronco.fnal.gov writes:

>   I'm a step-father to (among others) a 23 year old (female) that recently
>   had a baby (girl). So my question is: Am I a grandfather, step-grandfather,
>   or what?
>   You'll probably say that I'm a grandfather, so maybe I should put it this
>   way, what do you tell a child that has four grandfathers AND four
>   grandmothers? 

In today's society, there are more children who have step-relatives than
there are who don't.  When my oldest was 4 (now 16), he felt he was
disadvantaged because he only had one dad and so many of the kids in his
preschool had 2.  Unfortunately, a child with 4 grandmas is the norm.  There
are fewer children with 2 or 6 or 3.
Xref: sparky soc.women:15664 talk.politics.misc:41397 bit.listserv.politics:12339
From: lisa@zeppelin.llnl.gov (Lisa Corsetti)
Newsgroups: soc.women
Subject: Re: FEMALE GYMNASTS
Date: 28 Aug 92 22:47:58 GMT
Reply-To: lisa@zeppelin.llnl.gov (Lisa Corsetti)
Organization: Climate Model Intercomparison Group, LLNL

In article <1992Aug28.090454.23446@leland.Stanford.EDU> farthing@leland.Stanford.EDU (ljf) writes:
>
>The San Francisco Examiner did a four part series (sorry now that I
>didn't save it) on injuries in young female athletes....

Yes, it was a really good article, and the stats quoted were very
eye openning.  Also, some of the personal stories of various gymnasts
were shocking.

>                    [....]  Also, since a very low body fat
>prevents girls from menstruating and developing breasts, some coaches
>stress low body fat as a means of keeping the girls looking very
>"little girlish."

Another disorder mentioned besides amenorrhea was bulimia.  The stat for
the incidence of each that was quoted in the article escapes me, but
it was horrendous.  One of the gymnasts who has since retired, I think
Cathy Rigby was bulimic for 15 years.  Her coach never knew.

                                                      Lisa

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------.
|  "There's no beginning, no ending. There's just infinite                    |
|   passion of life."                                                         |
`-----------------------------------------------------------------------------'
Newsgroups: soc.women
From: aap@wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo Pinkas)
Subject: Re: Hating Men with Full Force
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 21:42:26 GMT

In article <1992Aug27.190305.2877@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com> bhv@areaplg2.corp.mot.com (Bronis Vidugiris) writes:
>In article <1992Aug26.191959.3805@opusc.csd.scarolina.edu> bev@opusc.csd.scarolina.edu (Beverly Huntsberger) writes:
>
>someone writes:
>)>> i think you'd better check out the word "mysogyny" a bit closer
>)>> as it's not found in: webster's ii  new riverside university
>)>> dictionary nor is it found in the: seiko insterments  word power professional.
>)>> but at least you gave it the ol collage try,,,boy.
>
>)	Yeah, but... but... what about his:
>)
>)	 "seiko insterments  word power professional" ???  (lord ;)
>
>My seiko spell checker doesn't find the correct spelling for mysogyny
>either.  It only offers 'musician' as a possible misspelling.  But it _does_
>have misogyny in its internal dictionary if you type it in correctly.
>
>This is either a poor algorithm, a bug, or a conspiracy on the part of
>the Japaneese, take your pick.......
>

The correct spelling is "misogyny". It comes from the Greek word "misogynia".




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      /   /\   \ \          /   /\   \ \       |  | |__\  \/
     /   /__\   \ \        /   /__\   \ \      |  |/___/  /
    /     __     \ \      /     __     \ \     |    _____/
   /_____/  \_____\/     /_____/  \_____\/     |___|/
   
       aap@wam.umd.edu

Newsgroups: soc.women
From: ifcss@WAM.UMD.EDU (IFCSS HQ)
Newsgroups: soc.rights.human
Subject: IFCSS HQ NR-4013: Help Shen Tong
Date: 2 Sep 92 22:46:19 GMT


**************************************************************
IFCSS Headquarters News Release No. 4013     September 2, 1992
                   HELP SHEN TONG 
**************************************************************
Independent Federation of Chinese Students and Scholars (IFCSS)
   733 15th Street, N.W., Suite 440, Washington, D.C.20005
         Tel. (202)347-0017  Fax: (202)347-0018
                Email: ifcss@wam.umd.edu

         IFCSS Calls on Chinese Students to Help Shen Tong
         =================================================

Dear Fellow Students:

    In the early morning of September 1, Shen Tong, a Boston
University student on a home-visiting trip, was arrested in
his home in Beijing. Two other students, Qi Dafeng and Qian
Liyun, were also arrested along with Shen Tong.

    According to people who had contact with Shen Tong before
his arrest, Shen had contacted government officials in China
about the possibility of setting up an office in Beijing to
promote constructive changes in China and received positive
responses. As a result, Shen Tong went ahead to hire two
employees for the office (Qi and Qian). 

    Shen's activities in Beijing had the full knowledge and
consent of related government officials and the whole project
proceeded strictly within the framework of the existing Chinese
law.

    IFCSS regards the arrest of Shen Tong and his colleagues as
a serious setback of the government's policy encouraging the
return of overseas Chinese students, a move politically unwise
and morally unjust. We call on Chinese students and scholars
across the United States to act immediately to help Shen, Qi
and Qian to regain their freedom. You may call or write to
the Chinese Embassy or related government agencies in China.
You may also enlist support from United States government
by contacting members of Congress from your area or contacting
the State Department. A concerted appeal from all of us is
very important.

    IFCSS will continue to closely monitor the situation and
will work with all forces for the release of these students.

    Agencies and numbers to call:

    State Council:                86-1-335987
    National Peoples' Congress    86-1-3098674
    Ministry of Justice           86-1-4081613
    State Education Commission    86-1-6011049
    Beijing Municipal Government  86-1-5121175

    Chinese Embassy               202-328-2500
    2300 Connecticut Ave. N.W.
    Washington, D.C. 20008


***************************************************************
         IFCSS Headquarters Office    Signature
***************************************************************