Organization: Penn State University
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 07:14:48 EST
From: <KRB104@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: alt.discrimination = alt.caucasian whining
 <1993Jan07.114650.26259@anomaly.sbs.com> <93008.070837KRB104@psuvm.psu.edu>
 <1993Jan10.063802.12575@panix.com>

In article <1993Jan10.063802.12575@panix.com>, sethb@panix.com (Seth Breidbart)
says:
>
>In article <93008.070837KRB104@psuvm.psu.edu> <KRB104@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>>In article <1993Jan07.114650.26259@anomaly.sbs.com>, kd1hz@anomaly.sbs.com
>>(Michael P. Deignan) says:
>>>
>>>dowdy@tochtli.biochem.nwu.edu (Dowdy Jackson) writes:
>>>
>>>>The fact is that whites are STILL
>>>>discriminating against blacks.
>>>
>>>...and blacks still discriminate against whites.
>>
>>    This is interesting.  Some Blacks may be prejudiced against whites, no
>>question about that, but discrimination?  You are going to have to give
>>specifics with Blacks discriminating against whites.  In order to
>discriminate
>>one has to have control over something.  What do Blacks control enough to
>>discriminate?  You are going to have to give specifics.
>
>Does the name Spike Lee ring a bell?  When he tells a studio that only
>a black publicist can work on his film, is that racial discrimination?
>When he tells a magazine that only a black reporter can interview him,
>is that discrimination?

    As I said before, I think that Spike Lee does discriminate.  And how is he
able to do that?  Because he does have some power over who he can hire and
fire.  He is one of the few Black people with such power.  Now we all can name
more than a hand full of white people who discriminate, otherwise the civil
rights division of the justice department wouldn't be as busy as it is.  OK,
you named one, now is that rampant discrimination?  Does Oprah Winfrey, Eddie
Murphy or Bill Cosby (other entertainers with clout who hire and fire people)?
Does Kennan Ivory Wayans?  Robert Townsend?  Prince?  Michael Jackson?  Does
Major League BAseball and the NFL?  Hmmm!  Looks like we have a dichotomy
going on here in the entertainment field!

>
>>     No one is asking for special treatment, but we are asking for a "level
>>playing field".  Because of the institutionalized discrimination that was
>(and
>>still is) in this country, Blacks have not been able to compete fairly.
>Until
>>the playing field is level, somethings are going to have to be as they now   .
>are
>>It is the white man who discriminated on the basis of a physical             c
>characteristi
>>for so long that things are the way they are.  Place the finger pointing in  e
>th
>>right direction.
>
>So you want a "level playing field" as long as it's tilted in your
>direction?  In the paragraph above, you start by giving lip service to
>a "level playing field", then you insist that because it isn't level,
>it must be tilted toward you.  Some people just want to level it, and
>you're making our job harder.
>

     That is great!  Let's have a level playing field starting now!  We will
ignore the fact that white people haven't allowed us to get proper education
and haven't been hiring us.  So therefore, if we start the playing field level
beginning today, employers will say that you don't have the experience or the
education to compete, so who will end up getting hired?  That is the reason
behind AA.  Eventually it will serve no purpose.  Until the Reagan years, the
need for AA was dwindling.  My generation (I am 29), was really the first to
be able to attend the college of our choice, and to go through their entire
schooling in integrated schools (my Uncle is 7 years older than me and he
attned a racially segragated elementary school).  I have not benifitted from
AA and I have no reason to want to (with 1400 SAT's and a 3.9 GPA, I could go
where I wanted to and with my college GPA and degrees I had little problem
finding jobs, though I did face discrimination from white professors and one
company when it came time to get hired).   But people who are older than me,
and some of the inner city people (be they Black or white) are suffering from
academic deficiencies based on funding of school systems.  I personally would
be offended if I got a job through AA because I don't deserve that considera-
tion, but others do.  The playing field isn't level yet and shouldn't be for
some because the starting line isn't equal!

>>>>Fact is that I, as an African American
>>>>will continue to help my people attain their goals while you as a Caucasian
>>>>American will do what you can to help your people hold onto whatever they
>e
>>>stol
>>>>in the past.
>
>Wrong.  I want everybody to be as productive as possible, because that
>causes there to exist the most stuff that I can buy.
>
>>   Who is talking about stealing?
>
>Try re-reading your paragraph above.  (Or isn't "stol" a typo for
>"stole", the past tense of "to steal"?)
>
   Are you going to deny that the white man "stole" this country and exploited
people in order to make their fortunes?  If you are, I think you had better
take U.S. History 100!

>>    I think we can learn that, we aren't all idiots like you think. Until
>>whites give us a fair and even playing field, then some concessions are going
>>to have to made.
>
>I see.  You want this "fair and even playing field" handed to you on a
>platter; you're not willing to work for it.  And until you get it as a
>gift, you insist on special treatment.
  See above

>
>>  And you are telling me that whites don't receive "special
>>treatment" (look at the tax codes sometime).
>
>I have.  I see special deductions for people who are over 65 and for
>people who are blind.  On what line of the 1040 does the special
>deduction for whites go?

   Sure, look under the eligible deductions, where businessmen can write off
their lunches, their vacation homes and things like that. Where Exxon can
write off thier fine from the huge oil spill.  I have a editorial cartoon on my
office wall that has a group of white men together at a country club eating
lunch.  ONe guy says "We must ween these welfare leeches from living off the
taxpayers".  At the same time, his friend is leaning over to the waiter and
says "A receipt please".  That about sums it up.
>
>>  No, you cannot legislate away
>>people's discriminatory tendencies, but you sure as hell can make it illegal
>>to discriminate.  Discrimination is anti-democratic.  If you think we should
>>let people discriminate because it is human nature to discriminate, then you
>>have problems.
>
>Then why do you keep insisting that society discriminate in your favor?

    I am not saying that there be discrimination in my favor.  Do you deny that
the time in this nation's history that Black people have been able to compete
for jobs and the like has been short?  Do you deny that a lot of companies
still discriminate?  Do you deny that a lot more companies would discriminate
if the legal obstacles were removed?

>
>>  And as a Black person, whose people do not discriminate because
>>we don't own enough of America to discriminate,
>
>You don't have to own very much to discriminate.  You can choose to
>buy your newspaper at one newsstand instead of another because of the
>race of the proprietor; that's discrimination.  It doesn't require
>very much money.
>

>
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,soc.culture.african.american,misc.education