HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sinha@watson.bms.com (Anil Sinha)
Subject: data modelling, ER diagram
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Keywords: data modelling, ER diagram
Organization: X
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 17:09:00 GMT

Heres a question for data modellers. 

How does one incorporate the restriction that a given relation is a subset of
another relationship ?

Assume we have these entities:

Grant: Approved grants
Party: Parties working on grants
Payments: payments made to parties

There is another entity "grant and party" which shows many to many
relationship between grant and party. The entity payment is payment to a party
and could be made against many grants. So there is another entity "payment and
grant" which shows many to many relationship between payment and grant.
So a given payment to party should be made against grants which are valid within
the entity "grant and party" for the given party. Can this restriction be
modelled within the ER diagram ?

Heres the ER diagram without this restriction. 

Now heres the ER diagram.


|-------|                                                  |-----------------|
|       |                                                  |                 |
|Grant  |\                                                 |                 |
|and    |----------------------------------................|                 |
|Party  |/                                                 |  Party          |
|       |                                                  |                 |
|-------|               |---------|                        |                 |
   \|/                  |         |\                       |                 |
    |                   | Payment |---------...............|                 |
    |                   |         |/                       |                 |
    |                   |---------|                        |                 |
    .                        |                             |-----------------|
    .                        |
    .                        |
    .                       /|\
|-------|               |---------|
|       |              /|Payment  |
|Grant  |.........------|  and    |
|       |              \|Grant    |
|-------|               |         |
                        |---------|


Can this only be done at the application or database level ? Is there any other
way to model this case ?


Thanks in advance.

********************************************************************************
Include Standard Disclaim:
********************************************************************************
Anil Sinha                                          	     Work:(609) 252 4788
Email:sinha@watson.bms.com
From: bill@chaos.cs.umn.edu
Newsgroups: comp.databases.oracle
Subject: Re: Dropping All Tables
Date: 8 Sep 92 21:50:21 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Minnesota


>In <Bu11us.Fx0@well.sf.ca.us> mharper@well.sf.ca.us (Michael J. Harper) writes:

>What is the easiest way to remove all tables, views, synonyms, etc. owned
>by a particular user?

we grant ourself access and login as the user,

set paus off;
set pages 999;
set head off;
spo spool_file_name.sql
select 'drop table ', table_name, ';'
from cat
where table_type = 'TABLE';
select 'drop view ', table_name, ';'
from cat
where table_type = 'VIEW';
select 'drop synonym '', table_name, ';'
from cat
where table_type = 'SYNONYM';
spo off;

then use your favorite edit method to clean up the spool file prior to
running it, or just run it and ignore the error messages.

@spool_file_name

bill pociengel
--
bill@chaos.cs.umn.edu
From: aaj@cmutual.com.au (Tony Jambu)
Newsgroups: comp.databases.oracle
Subject: Re: Name of trace file currently being written.
Date: 8 Sep 92 04:35:03 GMT
Organization: Colonial Mutual Life Australia
Newsgroups: comp.databases.oracle
Distribution: world
Followup-To: 
From: aaj@cmutual.com.au (Tony Jambu)
Organization: Colonial Mutual Life Australia 
Subject: Re: Name of trace file currently being written.
Keywords: 

In article <1992Sep4.082428.343@hhcs.gov.au>, pihlab@hhcs.gov.au writes:
> In article <BtwpHz.59J@nntp-sc.Intel.COM>, kortikar@mipos2.intel.com ()
writes:
> > Hi 
> > 
> > I would like to find out name of trace file currently being written.
> > 
> > set sql_trace true;
> > explain plan .......
> > set sql_trace false;
> > 
> > I currenlty use "ls -lt /oracle/rdbms/log/*trc | head -1" to find this out.
> > I need it for automating tkprof.
> > 
> > Thanks a lot in advance.   
> > 
> > Aniruddha Kortikar  (kortikar@mipos2.intel.com)
> 
> I'm not sure how you would do that under UNIX.  Do you have a facility to
> observe who is locking files?  If so the check the trace directory for some
> file being locked by your session.
> 
> I'm working in Oracle under VMS and the way we do this is to define a logical
> (ie a directory definition) which overrides Oracle's default TRACE directory
> (for MY CURRENT session only).  In this way I know that the TRACE file in MY
> particular directory is mine.  Can you do that under Oracle for UNIX.
> 

I have wanted to do it in UNIX for some time and have been playing around.  I
eventually approach Oracle Support and the answer I got was.....NO

It is not possible to carry this out on UNIX.  I hope someone out there can
tell me otherwise.

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 _____       ________ / ____ |Tony Jambu, Database Administrator
  /_  __       /_ __ /       |Colonial Mutual Life Australia. (ACN 004021809)
 /(_)/ ((_/ \_/(///(/_)/_(   |EMAIL:  TJambu@cmutual.com.au
Newsgroups: comp.databases
From: bernie@metapro.DIALix.oz.au (Bernd Felsche)
Subject: Re: Progress database users out there?
Organization: MetaPro Systems, Perth, Western Australia
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 02:59:37 GMT

In <1992Sep08.234425.9006@sandr.COM> dlucy@sandr.COM (Douglas Lucy) writes:

>In article <1992Sep7.180705.28132@muug.mb.ca> ve4drk@muug.mb.ca
>(Dan Keizer) writes:

>> I haven't seen much in the way of discussion on Progress, just some
>> comments on differences between different DB's.  Is anyone using it
...

>Try the popular mailing list at progress-list@uunet.uu.net. Subscription
>requests to progress-list-request@uunet.uu.net.

You'll have more luck with progress-list@math.niu.edu.

I guess progress-list-request@math.niu.edu is the address to subscribe.
-- 
+-----+ Bernd Felsche                     _--_|\  #include <std/disclaimer.h>
| | | | MetaPro Systems Pty Ltd          /      \ bernie@metapro.DIALix.oz.au
| | | | 328 Albany Highway,              X_.--._/         Fax: +61 9 472 3337
|m|p|s| Victoria Park, Western Australia 6100  v        Phone: +61 9 362 9355
Xref: sparky comp.databases:6674 comp.databases.ingres:1354
From: dl1@ukc.ac.uk (Duncan Langford)
Newsgroups: comp.databases,comp.databases.ingres
Subject: Databases & Ethics
Date: 11 Sep 92 15:54:46 GMT
Organization: Computing Lab, University of Kent at Canterbury, UK.

I recently posted a request for some input on an ethics option
a colleague and I are putting together - the target group
are third year computer science students. I posted here,
because we're under the 'umbrella' of a final year database
course, and it seemed to us that input on ethical issues
would be especially valuable from this group.

The response was very interesting. Several people asked for
copies of replies, or indicated that they're
keen to help (and have; thanks!) but others expressed
surprise at any database/ethics connection - 'there's no
relevance to databases' being a typical response.

There have been no postings here - all replies have been
by email - which normally means people don't think the
subject is of general interest?

I feel this is a pretty important issue, and one having
strong links to database issues, as well; but do people
generally believe it's irrelevant? If so, this in itself
is - to me - rather worrying.

Comments, anyone?

- duncan
Newsgroups: comp.databases
From: walker@uunet!fdls!agdept (Walker)
Subject: Re: Any UNIFY users?
A-Internet: dougw@agdept.odag.or.gov
C-Phone: (503) 378-5869
Organization: Oregon Department of Agriculture
B-Uucp: uunet!agdept!dougw
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 18:57:53 GMT

In <gheim.920911114350@lab14.eng.auburn.edu> gheim@eng.auburn.edu (Greg Heim) writes:


>Are there any UNIFY people out there?  I haven't seen any posts that 
>give that indication.


>Thanks,

>Greg


>                    /~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\                A/~~\A
>                    |    WELCOME TO ALABAMA    |               ((o  o))___    
>                    |  Set  your  watch  back  |                 \  /     ~~~
>                    |  an hour . . . set your  |  #              (--)\    #  
>Greg Heim    --x---x|  calendar back 30 years  |--#---x---x---x---x---x---#---
>USENET Junkie       \--------------------------/  #                    \  i_
>gheim@eng.auburn.edu --| |--#---x---x---x-| |--x--#---x---x---x---x---x---#---
>Sig. Copyright(c) 1991 | | )#(//  \\)(/  \| |(// \#(//  \|/   \\)|(/   \|)#(/

There is a Unify email list available through the Northern California Unify 
User's Group at no charge.  I'd suggest you post your question there.

To request to be added to the email list, send email to:

	uug-dist-request@dsi.com

with ADD as the Subject line.   

	. . .  Doug Walker

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Doug Walker       uunet!agdept!walker  -or-  walker@agdept.odag.or.gov
Oregon Department of Agriculture, Salem, Oregon           (503) 378-5869
From: bub@qut.edu.au
Newsgroups: comp.databases
Subject: ask information about OODB
Date: 9 Sep 92 15:59:43 EST
Organization: Queensland University of Technology

Hi,

Dose anyone know any software package used in PC about object-oriented database
which can manage graphical data well? Please tell me the name, where I can get
it and even send me one.

LI
From: fr@compu.com (Fred Rump from home)
Newsgroups: comp.databases
Subject: Re: C-tree and db-VISTA, any experiances ?
Date: 14 Sep 92 16:21:15 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: CompuData Inc.

thompson@stars.gsfc.nasa.gov (William Thompson, code 682.1, x2040) writes:

>In article <1992Sep12.155601.3823@compu.com>, fr@compu.com (Fred Rump from home) writes...
>>extremely difficult to do though, mainly because of the rather fixed nature of
>>network style databases. You just don't willy-nilly rearrange them. These
>>suckers need to be designed up front and rather carefully.

>That brings up an interesting question.  I've lately been looking into a number
>of SQL databases.  As I understand it, Raima claims that for their database,
>the user can either choose to use or not to use the network capabilities, and
>that even if you do, the view to the user is always relational.

The view to the user would be carefully laid out via CREATE VIEW statements. 
But in no way is Raima relational by design. You can sort of fake it, but 
that's about it. 

>How important is the network structure to Raima Data Manager?  They claim it
>speeds up queries--is it slower than other databases if you don't use it?  Does
>the database look any different to the user than if it were maintained with a
>purely relational engine?

While I'm not directly writing code in our development effort, I have been 
involved in the design. So, from a non-technical viewpoint, the many to many 
linkage requires intermediary sets. MDBS III/IV was better that way. (Of course 
the smelled as a company) The queries that a network enables are just about 
instant as everything has been pre-indexed by design.  Now, if you want
something different, travel down and up or sort things out as an afterthought, 
you'll probably take a lot longer than a pure relational database which is 
much more open to the user's whim.

The beauty is all the linking between sets that you know you'll need in 
advance. The downside of this is the stuff you need later. 

Bottom line then, a well designed custom database using Raima probably has no 
equal as far as speed of access goes. It is also one of the most difficult to 
develop under. Basically for professionals only. The end-user basically sees 
screens and should not be concerned with how the DB looks internally or how it 
is maintained. It should just do it.

fred

-- 
W. Fred Rump 	office:	   fred@COMPU.COM     'mans feet have grown/so big 
26 Warren St.   home: fred@icdi10.compu.com  that he/forgets his littleness'
Beverly, NJ. 08010                          		Don Marquis 
609-386-6846    bang:uunet!cdin-1!icdi10!fr
From: gt8963a@prism.gatech.EDU (MCCARTNEY,JEFFREY ELWOOD)
Newsgroups: comp.databases
Subject: GUPTA: Does it have a 4GL?  Or can I use another 4GL with its engine?
Date: 8 Sep 92 12:46:30 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

We're getting GUPTA on our UNIX servers, but we're wondering if headquarters
is getting something without a decent programming language?  Does anyone
know the UNIX/DOS front-end programming alternatives for a GUPTA UNIX (SUN)
engine?

Thank you

-- 

uucp:	  ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt8963a
Internet: gt8963a@prism.gatech.edu
From: sasha@uflash.UUCP (Alexander Shugayev)
Newsgroups: comp.databases
Subject: sql2-standard. Where?
Keywords: sql2-standard
Date: 15 Sep 92 19:54:27 GMT
Organization: cfX inc., NYC.

Hi!
We are interested in buying the sql2-standard.
Does anybody know where we can get it in U.S.?

/ One of the previous postings mentioned an
  address in Europe /

   	Thanx.
    Alexander Shugayev 
    sasha@cfx.COM
    uunet!uflash!sasha
Newsgroups: comp.databases
From: adapt@kyrwalda.lanl.gov (Adaptations)
Subject: dBASE HELP: dynamic pad-prompts in menus?
Keywords: dbase, menu,pad, prompt
Organization: Los Alamos National Lab
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 02:54:42 GMT

Hi everybody,

I am just about to rip my hair out:

Is there a way to have a pad promt in a dbase menu change?
What I am trying to do is have a menu, the user selects it, a popup  
appears, the user makes a selection. Depending on the selection,
a prompt in the menu changes.
Alternatively, a text field could appear in the same row (0) as the menu  
and change contents depending on the selection. I tried a say to line 0,  
but it doesn't overwrite the menu.

Any hints/ideas would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,

Chris
adapt@kyrwalda.lanl.gov

PS: I am using dbase IV 1.5
From: glenn@ludwig.sharebase.com (Glenn Linderman)
Newsgroups: comp.databases
Subject: Re: Hot Standby DBMS's
Date: 9 Sep 92 17:21:01 GMT

-> From: dhepner@cup.hp.com (Dan Hepner)
-> Subject: Re: Hot Standby DBMS's

-> From: dboyce@hemel.bull.co.uk (David Boyce)

-> >Interfaces for obtaining journal data from an RM and passing it to an
-> >standby RM would be needed, as would RM-independent methods of recovery
-> >and catch-up.  Not beyond the wit of man, I would have thought.
-> >
-> >Obviously the database vendors need to be convinced of the need to make
-> >this interface available.


-> Any ideas on how to convince them?  In particular, it needs to be
-> shown what can be done using this scheme which the DB vendors
-> could not do themselves.  Intuitively, one would say "but it's
-> more open".  In what way does this openness benefit anyone?

-> Dan Hepner

The point of passing the journal data from the master RM to a Hot Standby RM
is performance: it generally takes less work (read less time) to process
journal entries than it does to process the original requests.

Let's take a look at why: the journal is a log of physical updates to the
database pages (if it isn't, it probably also isn't faster than the
original requests).  Being physical, however, it is related to the particular
(proprietary) data organization used by the DBMS.

Translating things like block size and (index and data) record formats
from one proprietary form to another, or even to a canonical form, to pass
to another DBMS via a TM doesn't sound like fun, if it is even possible.
It also sounds very error prone to me, since the combinatorics would make
testing very difficult.

As a result, then, you would have an extremely complicated translation
system that would probably be as slow as or slower than the original
queries.  So passing the original queries to both machines in parallel
via a TM sounds like a pretty good alternative, and you can have that
today.

The alternative is to rewrite all DBMSs to have the same internal
structures and logging techniques.  Would you suggest the DBase format
as a standard that everyone knows???  :-)  <- that's a joke, please, but
it does make a point, even if DBase doesn't do logging...

To play the catchup game would require that the surviving DBMS or the TM
keep a record of the logical transactions processed while the other DBMS(s)
failed, so they can be replayed later to catch up.  If the load is light
enough that they can catch up by applying logical transactions...

GLenn
Newsgroups: comp.databases
From: ve4drk@muug.mb.ca (Dan Keizer)
Subject: Progress info found!  Thanks.
Organization: Manitoba Unix User Group, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 12:15:56 GMT

Thanks to all who replied ... before I get deluged with email, I better
make a summary posting.
It seems there is a very active progress mailing list, mail to:
	progress-list-request@math.niu.edu
That basically does it, once again, thanks to those who replied!

Dan
-- 

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dan Keizer, VE4DRK      ve4drk@pc.ve4drk.ampr.org [44.135.124.25]
ve4drk@muug.mb.ca       VE4DRK@VE4KV (AX.25) Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada
From: durai@ORTTA (Appadurai V.)
Newsgroups: comp.databases
Subject: Re: R & R ReportWriter for FoxBase
Keywords: report writer
Date: 11 Sep 92 20:26:14 GMT
Organization: U of Mn

In article <wolfgang.716238907@sfu.ca> wolfgang@fraser.sfu.ca (Wolfgang Richter) writes:

>I am considering use R & R Reportwriter version 4.0 to generate
>reports from some FoxBase files that I set up. Has anyone used
>this product? Does anyone have a number I can call to get more
>information from the vendor (e.g. hardware requirements)?

>I remember reading reviews about it before dBase IV
>arrived on the scene with its own report generator. The reviews
>were quite favourable. Is it still a good product for producing
>reports? I need the following features in a report writer:
>-  Able to produce reports from more than one dBase file at a time.
>-  Easy-to-use
>-  Able to send to different kinds of printers (e.g. dot matrix,
>   postscript, etc.)

Try Foxpro.
Newsgroups: comp.databases
From: shan@ms.uky.edu (Minghua SHAN)
Subject: Question about memo field in Paradox 4.0
Keywords: memo, paradox, import
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 13:30:18 GMT
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences

Hi,

I'm trying to import an delimited ASCII text file in Paradox.
Some fields are as long as a few thousand characters.
I know Paradox 4.0 has a memo field type which can store
almost unlimited amount of text. Is it possible to import
memo fields from, say, ASCII file? And if it is, how?

Thanks in advance.

shan@ms.uky.edu

Newsgroups: comp.databases
From: rols@tk1003.shearson.com (Roland King)
Subject: FoxBase screwing up records
Organization: Lehman Brothers
Distribution: comp.databases
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 07:03:57 GMT


I'm having a problem with FoxBase screwing up data files. It seems that two extra
characters are being inserted into the database file at some point, and therefore,
all subsequent data is 'off' by two characters eg

          Field 1      Field 2
Position 12345678     12345678

Rec 1    12345678     abcdefgh
Rec 2    24680246     rstuvwxy


becomes

Rec 1    1234xx56     78abcdef
Rec 2    gh246802     46rstuvw   etc..


After a half dozen records or so, Fox drops the two characters again and the data 
goes back in sync. Has anybody seen this problem/know what to do ???


Please mail to the group, or direct to rols@shearson.com

Thanks.........Rols
Newsgroups: comp.databases
From: schongvm01@cc.curtin.edu.au
Subject: HELP! Clipper report + bitmaps printout
Organization: Curtin University of Technology
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 02:59:05 GMT

Hi Gurus,

I am having problem in producing hardcopy of Clipper reports with
bitmaps inserted into them.

    eg.  Hardcopy      .--------------------.
         of report     |                    |
                       |   Clipper Report   |
                       |                    |
                       |   .------------.   |
                       |   |  bitmap    |   |
                       |   |            |   |
                       |   |  eg. .PCX  |   |
                       |   `------------'   |
                       |                    |
                       `--------------------'

I know that there are Clipper routines which allow calling up bitmaps
on screen in writing your own Clipper application.  However, I'm not
sure if it's possible to insert bitmaps into Clipper reports.

If anyone has any Clipper source in doing the similar task, please
forward to the address below.  Or you can just leave your suggestions
in this group!

Any help or suggestion would be appreciated!




Vei-Ming Chong
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
.-------------------------------------------------------------.
| Vei-Ming Chong                                              |
| schongvm01@cc.curtin.edu.au                                 |
|-------------------------------------------------------------|
| School of Electrical & Computer Engineering                 |
| Curtin University of Technology, Perth, Western Australia.  |
`-------------------------------------------------------------'
Newsgroups: comp.databases
From: phil@bts.com (Phil Eschallier)
Subject: Re: HELP! db_Vista needed!!
Organization: Bux Technical Services -- Doylestown, PA
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 14:42:03 GMT
	<1992Sep11.135105.12243@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>

In article <1992Sep11.135105.12243@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> dyoung@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Donn C Young) writes:

   Newsgroups: comp.databases
Path: jabber!gvls1!udel!wupost!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!dyoung
   From: dyoung@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Donn C Young)
   Sender: news@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
   Nntp-Posting-Host: bottom.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
   Organization: The Ohio State University
   References: <1992Sep11.010305.1532@omrongw.wg.omron.co.jp>
   Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 13:51:05 GMT
   Lines: 38

[ stuff deleted ... ]
   Raima db_VISTA (now designated Raima) is a database management system using
   a combination of network and relational database models. Raima is written in
   C and may be ported to many operating systems including MS Windows, OS/2, Unix,
   Xenix, and VAX VMS giving you a wide range of hardware options. The system
   features such things as LAN and multi-user computer support, client-server
   architecture, transaction processing/logging, a SQL-based ad hoc query
   system, and database security functions.

[ more stuff deleted ... ]

   Donn Young, Director, Biostatistics Unit, OSU Cancer Center, 614/293-3075
   dyoung@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu

i am happy to see that others on the net are using db_vista (now the
raima data manager).  i have used this product suite for years (my
company even provides consulting in this area).

while i am very happy with raima's tools, i have to question the
'client-server' capabilities stated above.  while it is possible to
configure data manager applications to work across a tcp/ip network,
you'll find a strong performance penalty due to the nature of their
implementation decisions.  in particular, as found in the release
notes of 3.21, the tcp/ip lock manager closes files and re-opens them
on the server after each update (rather than relying on the lock
daemon).

when relible lock daemons are available across all hosts in your
network, this is not a problem.  the source to the libararies can then
be changed.
-- 
Phil Eschallier                                 Bux Technical Services
 Inet: phil@bts.com                             P.O. Box 110
 UUCP: ...!{dsinc|gvls1|widener}!jabber!phil    Doylestown, PA  18901
                                                +1 215 348 9721
Newsgroups: comp.databases