HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: derich@netcom.com (Scott A. Steinbrink)
Subject: Atlantic City
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 15:43:26 GMT

 Hey, I'm going to Atlantic City this Saturday --

 It'll be my second time and I'm bringing $100 (maximum) --

 Which casinos are hot, and which slots/tables should I try?

- Scott

-- 

Scott Allen Steinbrink
 
NetCom: Derich@netcom.com
America Online: Derichman
Bitnet: 11sstein%gallua.bitnet@cunyvm.cuny.edu 
InterCon: tissue@intercon.com 

Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: jack@freezer.cns.udel.edu (Jack Seltzer)
Subject: Re: Casino Edge for BJ is 7.8% According t
Reply-To: jack@freezer.cns.udel.edu
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 19:24:31 GMT

In article 7858@ultb.isc.rit.edu, jsvrc@rc.rit.edu (J A Stephen Viggiano) writes:
>In article <C0C8nw.DK6@news.udel.edu> jack@freezer.cns.udel.edu writes:
>
>> I asked him what edge did
>>he come up with for the casino to which he replied 7.8%!  I asked him
>>if he was kidding, that the game gave the house an edge around .5%.
>
>I imagine he is assuming a "hit on 16, stand on 17" strategy, not the
>Basic Strategy. But even that strategy isn't even that bad, is it?
>


I believe that the "mimick the dealer" strategy puts the player
at a 6% disadvantage.  Also, I am pretty certain that he
knew I was talking about basic strategy.
From: cxxh@cco.caltech.edu (Chris H. Hall)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Casino Edge for BJ is 7.8% According t
Date: 5 Jan 1993 22:44:21 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
NNTP-Posting-Host: punisher.caltech.edu

>be experts and are anything but.  Years ago, there was a school (?somebodys?
>School of Winning Blackjack) that ran a radio ad claiming that with 
>their method you would have a 98% chance of winning.

I believe that was the "Stanley Robert's School of Winning Blackjack".

Chris
From: zlsiida@fs1.mcc.ac.uk (dave budd)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: That hold'em game for the PC...
Date: 7 Jan 93 14:12:53 GMT
Organization: Manchester Computing Centre

I don't seem to be able to adjust the betting limits etc
I imagine the data is in the allnite.pkr file, but as it's binary I'm a 
little nervous of editing it.
Anybody know if it can be safely edited, and which bit of it does what?
I'll have a go on a copy and see what happens, but it'd be nice to hear from 
somebody with a clue.

  No Trespassing: 4/17ths of a haiku.     D.Budd@mcc.ac.uk   fax 6040
  Dave Budd, MCC, Oxford Rd, Manchester, England    (44|0)61-275-6033
From: dbarber@crash.cts.com (David C. Barber)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Beating Roulette
Date: 7 Jan 93 01:24:06 GMT
Organization: CTS Network Services (crash, ctsnet), El Cajon, CA

I've heard mention of a system to beat Roulette (Centigram...) that
has been mentioned here before as well, BUT NOBODY WILL POST WHAT
THIS SYSTEM IS AND HOW IT WORKS?

Is this thing for real, or not?


Without change,                         *David Barber*
   nothing can ever get better.            @}-->----

UUCP: ucsd!crash!dbarber
INET: dbarber@crash.cts.com
From: leej@diver.asd.sgi.com (Lee Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Poker table top for sale
Date: 11 Jan 93 18:54:34 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: diver.asd.sgi.com

Note: This table top for sale is in San Jose.  If you're not within reasonable
driving distance of San Jose, it's probably not worth your trouble.

OK guys and gals, here's your chance to own a very cool poker table at a
very cool price.  When my wife and I moved into our new house, we decided
to get a real poker table.  It is real wood, and the top reverses to be 
a high quality breakfast room table.  The important side has a padded felt
center (maroon) with chip and drink trays around the edges.  The table is
octagonal and 54" across.  Therein lies the rub.  

We agonized over the decision to get a 54" or 48" table.  After careful 
measurement of the room, the table, the chairs, etc., we decided to get
the 54" model.  Wrong answer - the chairs are banging into our walls and 
damaging them.  We have negotiated with the store that sold us the original
table to sell us just a 48" top and its frame.

That leaves us a 54" poker table top and frame that we can't use.  
As I said, this is a high quality piece of furniture, not something that 
has to get stuck in a rec room where nobody will see it.  Besides the table
top, you get a 54" frame on which the top rests.  The frame stays bolted to
the table base, and you flip the table top for meals or poker.  

The one caveat: you need to provide a table base.  You could mount this 
assembly on just about any kind of thing you wanted, including a basic
card table from Target, but if you're going for something this nice, I'd 
think you'd want to put a little more effort than that into it.

The table cost us about $1300 new at Len's Golden West Billiards on 
Stevens Creek (between San Tomas and Winchester).  He is selling us the 
new top at a little over $600, and tells us that's his cost.  I'm going to
let the current top go for $300 or best offer.

E-mail me here, or call my house (408-944-0869), or office (415-390-3356).
Voicemail and answering machines everywhere.  If you're a serious buyer,
you're more than welcome to come over to our house and check it out.

Regards, Lee Jones
From: hashimoto@sgi.com (Roy Hashimoto)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Omaha Question
Date: 4 Jan 1993 21:50:29 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: sideout.asd.sgi.com

In article <1993Jan4.201935.6560@netcom.com> mzimmers@netcom.com (Michael Zimmers) writes:
>In particular, [John Payne] claims that a pocket of 9TJQ can flop 15
>straight draws
>(defined as four to a straight with 8 or more "outs" to make the straight
>on the turn or in the river).  I'm almost certain there are 16:
>
>78X	89X	8TX	8JX
>8QX	9TX	9JX	9QX
>9KX	TJX	TQX	TKX
>JQX	JKX	QKX	KAX

I don't see how knowing how many different draws there are is very useful
when these draws are not equally likely to occur.  I think you can argue
that the number should be even by symmetry, though, since you aren't losing
draws from running into the closed end.

It seems to me that there are two more straight draws with eight outs -
AJ7 and AT7.

Roy Hashimoto
hashimoto@sgi.com
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: jacobs@cs.utah.edu (Steven R Jacobs)
Subject: Re: Tahoe info?
In-reply-to: eric@hup.ucla.edu's message of 6 Jan 93 22:53:41 PST
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept
	<eric.181.0@hup.ucla.edu>
Date: 7 Jan 93 07:06:58

In article <eric.181.0@hup.ucla.edu> eric@hup.ucla.edu (Eric J. Splaver) writes:
>In article <1igfisINNr12@network.ucsd.edu> erwin@bend.ucsd.edu (Sean Erwin) writes:
>>Everyplace in Lake Tahoe is pretty expensive, but all BJ is double down on
>>10 or 11 only.
>
> All single deck might be 10/11 only but there's plenty of shoes with 
> southern nevada rules.

That really isn't much consolation, since a 2 deck game with Vegas "downtown"
rules has a higher house edge (for basic strategy play) than a single deck
game with D10/11.  A 4 deck shoe with Vegas "strip" rules is also worse than
Reno single deck game.  Single deck games with D10/11 are almost as bad as
Atlantic City shoe games, at least for basic strategy play.  Card counters
will do much better with the D10/11 single deck if penetration is good, but
these are still lousy games.
--
Steve Jacobs  ({bellcore,hplabs,uunet}!utah-cs!jacobs, jacobs@cs.utah.edu)
"Don't worry, I just have these harmless pocket rockets...."
From: TRADER@cup.portal.com (Paul Vincent McGinnis)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: news about the Rio
Date: Wed,  6 Jan 93 19:42:28 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world

I just saw an announcement that the Rio Hotel & Casino is going to build
another tower with 430 suites - from what I read they already have zoning
approval to build the hotel up to a total of 2300 rooms (they currently
have 424 suites).

Has the Rio got anything going for it gambling-wise ? I've never been inside
the place. Besides the Brazilian style T&A they show in their ads, what's
the big attraction ? 

Just curious - does anyone else think Vegas is getting overdeveloped? Maybe
I've just felt the urge one too many times to mow down tourists with the
rental car because hordes of them walk all over the middle of the street...

Paul McGinnis / TRADER@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: eric@hup.ucla.edu (Eric J. Splaver)
Subject: Re: Tahoe info?
Organization: UCLA Honors and Undergraduate Programs
Date: 6 Jan 93 22:53:41 PST

In article <1igfisINNr12@network.ucsd.edu> erwin@bend.ucsd.edu (Sean Erwin) writes:
>Everyplace in Lake Tahoe is pretty expensive, but all BJ is double down on
>10 or 11 only.

All single deck might be 10/11 only but there's plenty of shoes with 
southern nevada rules.

Tahoe is a pretty hard game to beat, but there are a couple of good things.
Deck penetration is generally about the best I've ever seen, so be demanding 
on your table choice.  Also, Tahoe tends to hire lots of college kids to 
deal part time (the summer is best.)  There's few advantages better than 
playing against a green dealer who is highly readable, exposes cards on the 
peek and deals way, way down into the deck.
________________________
Eric J. Splaver
eric@hup.ucla.edu
(310) 825-2768
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: jack@freezer.cns.udel.edu (Jack Seltzer)
Subject: Casino Edge for BJ is 7.8% According to Expert
Reply-To: jack@freezer.cns.udel.edu
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 16:33:31 GMT

I'm standing at a full bj table just watching the game.  The man 
next to me, about 50 years old, is coaching a player at first
base who is in his 20's.  After watching a several rounds of 
cards, it is pretty obvious that the cards are severly clumped
with the dealer pulling to his 18,19,20,21 with 4 and 5 cards.
The man who is coaching tells the player to pull out for a hand
or two because it is obvious (to him) that the player at 
first base who keeps changing from 1 hand to 2 hands is screwing
things up.  I remark that I don't think the problem is that, but
rather that the cards are severly clumped.  The coach, who now informs
me that he is a well known expert at the game (I wish I remembered 
his name, which he told me), tells me that the shoe is not clumped and
that up to this point, he and his friend have made a nice profit at 
the table.  He informs me that he has thoroughly analyzed the game
via computer.  It turns out that he is in real estate, but has 
programmed the game on his home computer.  I asked him what edge did
he come up with for the casino to which he replied 7.8%!  I asked him
if he was kidding, that the game gave the house an edge around .5%.
He argued the point and was quite irritated that anyone would challenge him.
I told him that several experts had all come up
with the same house advantage of around .5%.  At this point it became
obvious to me that his "student" was probably a paying student.  
The "expert" was not very happy to be challenged in front of his student.
When I told the expert that he had better check his program because it
was obviously suffering from some severe bugs, I thought he was going to 
explode.  At this point I started to get bored with this
jerk's complete lack of knowledge of the game accompanied by a
highly inflated ego so I started to walk away.  He called to me,
"By the way I assume you count, right?".  I couldn't believe it.  
This guy was also just plain stupid as well as ignorant.  I pleaded
ignorance to what he was talking about and left the table.  I really 
felt sorry for his student.  

Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: beers@theory.TC.Cornell.EDU (Jim Beers)
Subject: Re: Casino Edge for BJ is 7.8% According to Expert
Organization: Cornell Theory Center
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 18:04:10 GMT

In article <C0C8nw.DK6@news.udel.edu> jack@freezer.cns.udel.edu writes:
>            He informs me that he has thoroughly analyzed the game
>via computer.  It turns out that he is in real estate, but has 
>programmed the game on his home computer.  I asked him what edge did
>he come up with for the casino to which he replied 7.8%!  I asked him
>if he was kidding, that the game gave the house an edge around .5%.
>He argued the point and was quite irritated that anyone would challenge him.
>I told him that several experts had all come up
>with the same house advantage of around .5%.  At this point it became
>obvious to me that his "student" was probably a paying student.  
>The "expert" was not very happy to be challenged in front of his student.

Do you mean to tell me that there are people out there who will pay somebody
to coach them in playing blackjack?  If I were to proclam to be an expert,
write a computer program, (which I have, hasn't everybody) I could get
somebody to pay for my trip to Vegas and even some pocket money while
there!  This guy claims a 7.8% advantage for the casino and still gets
a student.  At least my program is "optimized" to show an advantage for
the player.

So where do I sign up, anyone want to be my "student", if so, I am
sure I could come up with a really good "system"

Jim "author of the world famous Beers system" Beers
From: bhoughto@sedona.intel.com (Blair P. Houghton)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: con games
Date: 5 Jan 1993 22:57:22 GMT
Organization: Intel Corp., Chandler, Arizona
NNTP-Posting-Host: stealth.intel.com

In article <qo9VwB3w165w@netlink.cts.com> surf@netlink.cts.com (Tony Rosa) writes:
>who are these idiots posting pyramid schemes, every forum I am in has on
>get a life guys.  flame flame flame
>tr 8)

They're more certain than the state lottery.

				--Blair
				  "And less stupid."
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: mzimmers@netcom.com (Michael Zimmers)
Subject: Omaha Question
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 20:19:35 GMT


Hi, gang -

I recently picked up John Payne's book on Hi/Lo Omaha (the big spiral
bound one with the ugly yellow cover).  While it contains a lot of
good information in general, I find myself questioning some of his
statistics.

In particular, he claims that a pocket of 9TJQ can flop 15 straight draws
(defined as four to a straight with 8 or more "outs" to make the straight
on the turn or in the river).  I'm almost certain there are 16:

78X	89X	8TX	8JX
8QX	9TX	9JX	9QX
9KX	TJX	TQX	TKX
JQX	JKX	QKX	KAX

I've got a similar problem with his numbers for TJQK.  I'm reluctant to 
study further, as I don't know who else has reviewed this recent
"publication" and I don't want to become an expert on poor theory.
Any thoughts?

Also, what is the formula for determining the odds of making such a 
straight given a particular flop?

Thanks.
-- 
Michael Zimmers                                    |  Home:  408 996 1984
SoftHelp                                           |  Work:  408 996 1965
Software Solutions for Open Systems                |  Data:  408 996 1974
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: guido@island.COM (Guido Marx)
Subject: Re: Turning $96 into $70,000
Organization: Island Graphics Corp.  San Rafael, Ca.
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 17:44:36 GMT

In article <1993Jan03.102228.25849@microsoft.com> mikegins@microsoft.com (Michael Ginsberg) writes:
>First off, I understand this is all illegal, and agree that it's stupid, etc.
>However, being the type who wants to understand why things are the way they
>are, I'd like to know if anyone knows *why* it's illegal?  It doesn't seem like
>fraud, since the would-be pyramider always comes out and tells you that you have
>to sell your copies, and that you become rich only if everyone else sells their
>copies, etc.  

I think that it IS fraud.  And the reason is that the people on the top of the
list never paid their money to get there.  These things are always started in
the way described by a previous poster - the people at the top of the list
just put their own names on the list and sell the list to suckers. It's fraud
and it is and should be illegal.

Of course, the other case for fraud is that these are always promoted as
cant' lose sure things rather than tremendous longshots they truly are.  A
quick examination of the mathmatics should convince you that you would be
better off taking your $96 and buying Lotto tickets.  In order for the first
person to make their money 2187 people must buy tickets.  In order for THOSE
people to make their money 4,782,969 people must buy tickets.  In order for 
THOSE people to make their money we need a list of 10,460,353,203 suckers.
Or, more people than there are on the entire planet.  

Guido
From: mannys@thebookstore.Eng.Sun.COM (Manuel 'Manny' Raposa)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Attraction at the Rio?
Date: 7 Jan 93 17:22:37 GMT
Reply-To: mannys@thebookstore.Eng.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: thebookstore

In article <73067@cup.portal.com> TRADER@cup.portal.com (Paul Vincent McGinnis) writes:
> Has the Rio got anything going for it gambling-wise ? I've never been inside
> the place. Besides the Brazilian style T&A they show in their ads, what's
> the big attraction ? 

	The Brazilian style T&A the cocktail waitresses show inside the
casino!

		Manny

---
* Manuel J. Raposa         |  I've been to two zoos,                    *
* manuel.raposa@Eng.Sun.Com|                and a county fair,          * 
* Sun Microsystems, Inc.   |  and I ain't NEVER seen nothing like this! * 
=========================================================================
Organisation: European Space Technology Centre (E.S.T.E.C)
Date: Monday, 11 Jan 1993 14:02:50 CET
From: <MATTWOOD@ESTEC.BITNET>
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: A Fracas at the Frontier


 I spent a (profitable!) Christmas in Vegas and managed to brave the
Frontier strikers once or twice. All seemed fairly peaceful until about
14:00 on December 26th. A guy had tried to come into the Frontier via the
side entrance, a striker had hit him with a placard, causing the potential
customer quite a bloody head injury. I don't know how much the striker was
provoked (if at all), but he'd been joined by all of the other strikers in
order to shout abuse at the guy, his girlfriend, and the eight or so security
guards that showed up within seconds. Unfortunately (or maybe not), we had to
leave just as the police were arriving, so does anybody know what happened
and what any aftermath was?

 Martin Attwood.
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: irwin@uvmark.uucp (Frank Irwin)
Subject: Re: news about the Rio
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 93 16:13:33 GMT
Organization: VMARK Software, Inc.

In article <73067@cup.portal.com> TRADER@cup.portal.com (Paul Vincent McGinnis) writes:
>Has the Rio got anything going for it gambling-wise ? I've never been inside
>the place. Besides the Brazilian style T&A they show in their ads, what's
>the big attraction ? 

You need more than that?  :-)

The blackjack isn't *too* terribly bad, though I believe that they hit
S17.  You can get decent penetration at times, though they rubber-band
their dealers, so that you don't get a dealer for more than 40 minutes
(they switch tables after their breaks).

The glasses that they bring shots with are pretty cool, as well.

Just remember where you park!  You can walk around in the lot for hours,
if you go there with certain rec.gamblers.  :-)

-- 
 ============================================================================
 Frank Irwin                | "I've got 5 tokens.  You've got 5 tokens.
 Vmark Software, Inc.       |  Let's get us a room."
 irwin%uvmark@merk.com      |           -- New pick-up line at the Frontier
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: freedman@cs.colostate.edu (keith freedman)
Subject: Re: Casino Edge for BJ is 7.8% According t
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1993 20:57:27 GMT
Reply-To: freedman@cs.colostate.edu
Organization: Colorado State University -=- Computer Science Department

In article E2p@news.udel.edu, jack@freezer.cns.udel.edu (Jack Seltzer) writes:
>In article 29529@tc.cornell.edu, beers@theory.TC.Cornell.EDU (Jim Beers) writes:
>
>There is one school of bj in Phila. run by Dough Grant.  There is 
>the school in NJ run by Jerry Patterson.  These schools charged about 
>$400.00 for the course some 5 or more years ago, so I would imagine
>that the "tuition" is more now.  As part of the tuition the student is
>entitled to have the instructor accompany him(her) to the casino to 
>monitor his(her) play

Sems to me that if you were to take the $400.00 to a low minimum table and sit
there late at night (morning) you'd have 4 or 5 people and one dealer all helping
you out and you're likely to figure out whatever you need to know long before
the $400 would be gone, and you (hopefully) will even be ahead..

Beats starting $400 in the hole to begin with!
---
Keith Freedman
Colorado State University
Department of Computer Science
Systems Administration

Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: alanm@netcom.com (Alan H. Mintz Cons)
Subject: Re: Poker players that rathole chips
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 02:46:03 GMT

messiah@nevada.edu (mw) writes:

>I've been playing a lot of small stakes Hold 'em lately (Xmas break
>and all that y'know :-) ) and the one thing that I keep noticing 
>repeatedly is that people will take chips (usually quarters) off the
>table and the dealer either does not see it or does not enforce the
>"table stakes" rule.

>Now I realize some of you are probably saying "Who cares about a couple
>of quarters?" but in the course of a few hours at small stakes Hold 'em
>one can easily accumulate say 10 to 20+ bucks worth of quarters all of
>which gradually gets ratholed. If one considers the effect of this from
>two or more players then it starts to get somewhat significant. I've seen
>it done with red chips and even the occasional green chip that may have
>found itself into the small stakes game (for the non-Vegas inclined:
>red = $5, green = $25 :-) ).

Speaking for SoCal 2-4 and up here...

Yellow ($5) and even blue ($1) is generally not tolerated, much less $25 chips.
Anything smaller is generally ignored, but it doesn't seem to be abused much.
Silver quarters seem are easier to rathole I guess.

>Anyway so far I've just let it slide because if I call people on it as
>often as I notice it then the house will start to think I'm a pain in the
>ass, even if it is a house rule I'm trying to get enforced. Besides, I know
>that if someone has enough chips to rathole then they won't come up short
>for the next few pots or so. So perhaps its just annoying, but I'd like
>to see the house (purposely left anonymous) act with more enthousiasm in
>enforcing this rule.

The problem is then that you have to start enforcing this rule against
other forms of leakage, like paying for drinks, dealer tips, player tips
("pushes" - kinda common here among certain groups of players), etc. from
your stack. I guess it's just one of those annoyances that has to be lived with.
I might say something if I saw someone repeatedly ditch chips.
-- 
< Alan H. Mintz | alan@mq.mq.com   | ...!netcom!ahmcs!mq!alan  BEST PATH >
<            OR | alanm@netcom.com | ...!netcom!alanm                    >