HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Fri, 8 Jan 1993 09:26:10 EST
From:         Evelyn Duncan <R3EJD@AKRONVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Kevorkian Sets Sights on Ohio

On Thu, 7 Jan 1993 17:13:11 EST K=A*T said:
>Anyway, Evelyn's criticism should be against the state of
>Ohio not Kevorkian.

As for the state of Ohio, a number of leading lawmakers here (from the
governor on down) have gone on record of opposing Kevorkian.  The
Summit County prosecutor, Lynn Slaby, has said that he will charge
Kevorkian with practicing without a license if Kevorkian holds
consultations with people.

As for Kevorkian himself, if his patients are ONLY the terminally ill,
then I have no quarrel with him.  But, I'm worried about the mentally ill,
the alcoholic or drug addicted, or teenagers who have decided to kill
themselves.  Shouldn't they be helped through their problems instead of
helping them to kill themselves?
>
>--KAT

Evelyn
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Date:         Tue, 5 Jan 1993 15:32:28 MET
From:         Grzegorz Albinowski <caius@II.UJ.EDU.PL>
Subject:      Re: China
Comments: To: POLITICS@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu
              mcbride" at Dec 22, 92 8:20 am

james p mcbride pisze:

>> On a further point, you said that Rightists (a) were free market, and (b) did
>> not kill anybody.

(a) yes, I said that
(b) I said, that killing people is not suitable for right-left distinction
   (although Stalin was the "best" killer ever)


>> ..  Well, where does that leave China?  They now run a free
>> market economy.

China is a big country, the South is reforming in the direction of free market
(yes, I will call it a rightist tendency) while in Peking the are NO free
market reforms.


  Therefore, by your narrow definition, they must be a rightist
>> government.  But where does that leave Tiannenman Square?  One of the more
>> disgraceful incidents of the late 1980s.  So if they are murderers, then they
>> must be leftists.  But leftists don't believe in the free market, so...?

>>
>> Try and square *that* circle.

There NO cirles at all, if you assume support-for-free-market, the most
important distinction between the right and the left. I always use it as
a defintion:
right - as much free market as possible
left  - as much state intervention as "necessary"

>> james

Caius
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Date:         Thu, 7 Jan 1993 15:26:17 -0400
From:         The Integral Differential <DEMON@DESIRE.WRIGHT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Kevorkian Sets Sights on Ohio
Comments: To: POLITICS@OHSTVMA.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU

>
>On Thu, 7 Jan 1993 13:28:44 -0400 The Integral Differential said:
>>
>>        These people *want* to die.
>>
>>        Why should we stop them?  If they are lucid, and it's their desire, we
>>have no right to stand in their way.
>
>Helping someone to kill him/herself bothers me; don't those people know what
>their suicides mean to their family and friends?
>
>Evelyn

        Kevorkian only helps those who discuss it with their families or those
who have no one left.

Brett'
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Date:         Wed, 6 Jan 1993 08:09:24 CDT
Comments:     Resending note of Wed,
              6 Jan 1993 02:24:00 EDT from CLARK@EVMSVMS.BITNET
              <POLITICS@OHSTVMA>
From:         Robert Moss <SPRG0002@TULSAJC.BITNET>
Subject:      Uncl: RE: Uncl: Re: Uncl: ActUp/RI joins Colorado Boycott
Comments: To: politics@ohstvma.bitnet

From:
*** Resending note of 01/06/93 01:25

From -T
Easy to guess the reference; anyone (without looking at all your video guides)
know the actor?

From Robert
It's one of my favorite movies BTW.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Fri, 8 Jan 1993 11:51:00 EST
From:         linda <SABOE@VUVAXCOM.BITNET>
Subject:      RE: They're back....

>The road to hell is paved with gender confusions.
>(You and Robert, both praying for our souls.)

>                     -Tim

>(Robert is more concerned with sexual confusions,
>I think.  But the words are interchangeable, aren't
>they?  I mean, according to the professionals....)


ono, tim, how could you? please o please don't open the gender/sex bag of worms?
it's friday afterall....

-linda
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
From: jwales@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Jimmy -Jimbo- Wales)
Subject: Re: why gold
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 20:49:47 GMT

Grzegorz Albinowski <caius@II.UJ.EDU.PL> writes:
>The problem is the majority of the voters are NOT economists. And majority
>of the economists does NOT understand inflation.

It is correct, in a sense, to say that the majority of economists do
not understand inflation.  But only in the sense that macroeconomics
doesn't really exist, and that we really haven't got much more than
a vague clue about certain issues, inflation among them.

One of the big difficulties with inflation, one which is often not
sufficiently recognized, is that inflation distorts the role of
prices in the conveyance of information.  Note well that it seems
unlikely that this distortion is helped much when the amount of
inflation is known in advance.

--Jimbo



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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Tue, 12 Jan 1993 15:10:00 EST
From:         linda <SABOE@VUVAXCOM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Uncl: re: school daze

>A confession: I generally don't bother to keep my checking account
>balance to the penny, and I NEVER muck around with my statement at
>the end of the month.  See, I know about how much money I have in the
>bank, and I keep a running estimate in my head.

omygod, jimbo, you're kidding. i am sooooo obsessive about my checkbook. maybe
it has to do with the fact that there are so few numbers left of the decimal.
i write in every transaction *before* i write the check. i subtract it right
there too (much to the chagrin of the poor person in line after me, but hey,
i'm paranoid about this stuff and after all, people gotta learn to relax at
the acme). then, of course, we come to the end of the month.....statement time.
i balance it to the penney. once, when i couldn't account for .30, i went to
the bank and made the bank lady go through everything until she found it.
dear jeff thinks i'm out of my mind.
i don't argue.

>I never bounce checks, either.

me neither.

>Hmm... maybe I just don't know anything about finances...

me neither.

-linda
>--Jimbo
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Date:         Thu, 7 Jan 1993 09:51:39 CST
From:         "rufus t. firefly" <U9AA@SDSUMUS.SDSTATE.EDU>
Subject:      can oil do that?
Comments: To: POLITICS@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

> ok, who knows about chemistry?
>
> fred said that some british guy said, that since the oil spilled over there
> was "lighter" it should evaporate. i did not think oil could evaporate.
> so, somebody, ans. please....can oil evaporate???
>
> -linda

   some of it can, yes. part of that oil can be made into gasoline,
for instance, which definitely evaporates. of course, some of it is
sludge, which won't evaporate, but will sink. i understand that some
kinds of plankton (? bacteria?) can have a field day with this crud(e).

  not to mention that they problems they're having with cleanup is the
weather - a major storm is in progress. this should disperse some of
it quite well, reducing the scope of the problem.

rtf
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Date:         Wed, 6 Jan 1993 14:11:17 -0400
From:         The Integral Differential <DEMON@DESIRE.WRIGHT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: the quota thing -- how real is it?
Comments: To: POLITICS@OHSTVMA.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU

...Quotas and job searches...
>I know this is only one person's experience in a limited number of settings
>-- so I'm asking others out there with more knowledge than I:  how "real"
>are quotas?  How often do poorly-qualified folks get hired to fill quotas?
>Just how big a problem is it?
>
>Kerry
>who suspects it does happen sometimes, but is beginning to think the q word
>is becoming another red flag.  Or is it red herring?

        To add one more person's experience:

        My wife works for GM.  She tells of certain employees (females and
blacks) who are kept only to maintain the current ratio of females to males and
blacks to whites.  It's not official policy, but these people are poor workers,
worse than the white males fired for non-performance of their job.

        Not that all females and blacks are poor workers, for those of you
about to read that into the above :).

        Even though she's a good engineer, she knows she's safe with the
current round of job cuts at GM because she "fills a quota" (her words).

        My brother-in-law, a white male and equally good engineer, is not so
confident of his job safety even though he has one more year of seniority than
she does.

        Me?  I can always claim native status....

Brett'
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Date:         Sat, 9 Jan 1993 20:29:15 EST
From:         Daniel David Benson <bensonda@STUDENT.MSU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Disarmament
Comments: To: POLITICS@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu
              Differential" at Jan 8, 93 1:33 pm

Right on!

- Dan



>         It's been amusing to see the various "peace movements" that campaigned

> for freezes and unilateral disarmament become very quite as first Reagan then
> Bush effectively reduced the number of warheads here and in the XSSR by 2/3.
>
>         News of continued cuts in nuclear arms is not met with ever-louder
> cries of joy, but with silence and then *complaints*.
>
>         DISARM-L lives a life of quiet desperation, not willing to give credit

> to either President Reagan or Bush, and hoping for some kind of bad news to
> arise.
>
>         The latest attempt to badmouth START II is to say it ignores
> submarine launched missiles.
>
>         And?  Sub launched missiles are not first strike weapons.  They are
> less accurate and the subs are subject to communication blackouts.  START I an
d
> II have been targeting the most dangerous weapons: MIRVed land based missiles.

>
>         Back in the 80s I was a supporter of the notion that many of these
> movements were Soviet inspired and partially staffed with Soviet sympathizers.

> This notion was proven true when the British "Women's Movement" was found to b
e
> led by Soviet spies.
>
>         In the wake of such allegations the freeze movement and unlateral
> disarmament movement have evaporated.  All that is left are those critical of
> the US, and willing to ignore the facts of disarmament to bash the US for any
> reason.  There are no more mass marches in Europe (I should say Western, since

> there never were any in Eastern Europe or the XSSR...) no more chants of
> "better red than dead".  Yet there are still those unwilling to give credit
> where credit is due.  Unwilling to grant the US (and Gorbachev's XSSR) the
> respect they deserve for retiring the nuclear war clock.
>
>         You have to look beyond stated objectives.  People aren't always what
> they seem.  Let's all give thanks that Reagan and Bush and Gorby and Yelstin
> have had the courage to say no to irresponsible ideas.
>
> Brett'
>
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Date:         Wed, 6 Jan 1993 09:21:51 PST
From:         Jonathan Fisher <jfisher@NETXWEST.COM>
Subject:      Re: the biBle
Comments: To: POLITICS@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

>
>From Robert
>That's Word with a "W" and God with a "G".
> [...]
> The Bible is the Word so (4) you're against it.

The bible is a bunch of made-up stories written by old men and it has no
semblance of truth in it.

Jonathan
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Date:         Mon, 11 Jan 1993 10:53:57 CDT
From:         SPRG0002@TULSAJC.BITNET
Subject:      Uncl: re: school daze

From: Robert   Sprg0002@tulsajc.bitnet

...edited for your safety

>Think about it.  When was the last time you actually needed to
>do a calculation similar to "546.23 x 1.78" ??  I don't recall
>when I had to do it.

>................. kids -- needs is estimating.  Yes!, estimating.
>Estimating makes kids THINK.  Doing endless and mindless divisions
>and multiplications does not.  What he needs is "word problems."
>KAT

Since I posted all the entries in my checkbook based on estimates, I
estimate that my checking account has a $100.00 balance.  Do you think
the bank uses the same method of estimating my balance?

Clerk:      "That'll be $22.53 sir."
Customer:   "He's a twenty, I estimate it's about the same."
Clerk:      "Thank you.  Have a nice day."
Shop owner: "You're fired!  Stupid!"

                     or

Clerk:      "That'll be $26.00 sir."
Customer:   "Here's thirty"
Clerk:      "Thank you.  Have a nice day."
Customer:   "But, where's my change?"
Clerk:      "What change?"
Shop owner: "You're fired!  Stupid!"
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Date:         Mon, 4 Jan 1993 18:32:10 +0100
From:         BADERTINOVS%NEWS@ADMINB.RFERL.ORG
Comments: To: POLITICS@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

Hello Meu-Sen Sheu!

Welcome to the list! I enjoyed reading your message and I have many
questions about Taiwan. I am especially interested in its transition
towards democracy. I think Russia can use the experience of Taiwan in
its economic reform.

Unfortunately, I will not be able to get all the answers to my
questions very soon. My lover and I are leaving tomorrow for Venice.
We will spend a week there. I just wanted to use this message to let
people know that I'll not be able to respond to their questions right
away.

So, I wish myself a pleasant trip and wish everybody the best of luck.

Sam.
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Date:         Sat, 9 Jan 1993 20:28:33 MET
From:         Grzegorz Albinowski <caius@II.UJ.EDU.PL>
Organization: Institute of Computer Science, Jagellonian University Cracow
Subject:      Re: Privatizations and standard of living
Comments: To: POLITICS@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu
              93 11:31 am

Ramon pisze:
>>         By God, Tim! You are right! Maybe it's time to stop all that
>> nonsense and let a mixed economy work. Who knows? It might actually do some
>> good!

Most of the African countries are already mixed economies and they do not
seem to work.

Caius.
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Date:         Wed, 6 Jan 1993 09:20:00 EST
From:         "Peter J. Schledorn" <UNCPJS@UNC.OIT.UNC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Presidential Pardon
Comments: To: Forum for the Discussion of Politics <POLITICS@UCF1VM.CC.UCF.EDU>

> >>3.      The reach of the power of the President to pardon is, as has been
> >>demonstrated, extends to former presidents, former and probably sitting
> >>officials, etc., and may cover past offenses not yet charged.  The Supreme
> >>Court would probably have to decide whether the Constitution grants the powe
> >>of auto-pardon.  Given the division of the current Court, it could go either
> >>way, and may depend on the Court's reading of United States v. Nixon (the
> >>Watergate tapes).
> >
> >The pardon power does not extend to "sitting officials" who would have
> >to be impeached. For example, to judges.
>
> You're right on that one, except that at least on member of Congress (sorry, I
> can't remember the name) during Reconstruction received a Presidential pardon
> for a conviction while his case was pending before the Supreme Court.  (They
> knocked it off the docket.)

I read it a little differently.  The text says "he shall have Power to
Grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States,
except in Cases of Impeachment."  Since the only penalty that comes
with impeachment is removal from office, this seems to mean that he
can't keep an official in office (by a pardon that would reverse the
results of the impeachment trial) if the Senate decides to toss that
person out.  But it looks like he still has the power to grant pardons
if those same people are convicted in a criminal trial.

Best,
Peter

>  and >>>                                                Dan, ad nauseum
>> Jamie
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Wed, 6 Jan 1993 14:53:00 EDT
From:         CLARK@EVMSVMS.BITNET
Subject: RE: Uncl: Re: Uncl: ActUp/RI joins Colorado Boycott

Linda:


        Go out right now to your nearest Blockbuster or Errol's or whatever -

ask for _Dr. Strangelove_.  View it.  Report back to us.


(Although I guess you've probably seen it, and didn't recognize the obscure
references!).


Nevertheless, enjoy!


-$%

-&*9

-*(

(damn - this right arm keeps swinging up! can't control the darn 7^&*u9!)

-T.
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Date:         Mon, 4 Jan 1993 09:32:39 CDT
Comments:     Resending note of Mon,
              4 Jan 1993 07:28:02 EST from K=A*T <MEC038@UKCC.UKY.EDU>
From:         Robert Moss <SPRG0002@TULSAJC.BITNET>
Subject:      Uncl: Re: Uncl: Re: Uncl: re: Colorado boycott
Comments: To: politics@ohstvma.bitnet

*** Resending note of 01/04/93 06:44

From KAT
Implid in  claiming homosexuality is "chosen" is that *IF* it
was NT chosen then Robert's attitude toward it would change.

From Robert
It is *chosen* so your claimed implication is worthless.

From KAT
As if being black is equally "immoral" but is forgiven JUST because
it is involuntary.  What a pathetic argument!

From Robert
It certainly is pathetic!  So why are you trying to make it?
From: PL436000@BROWNVM.BITNET (Jamie)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Subject: Re: philosopher cards - starter set
Date: 12 Jan 93 19:15:00 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

>From:         Jimmy -Jimbo- Wales <jwales@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU>
>
>Hmm... philosophers on a baseball team?
>
>
>...you left off the famous team owner -- Ayn Rand.

That's because we were only considering philosophers.

Jamie
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Date:         Tue, 12 Jan 1993 13:54:49 MET
From:         Grzegorz Albinowski <caius@II.UJ.EDU.PL>
Organization: Institute of Computer Science, Jagellonian University Cracow
Subject:      you try to put you right foot in, but you have both left feet
Comments: To: POLITICS@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu
              at Jan 12, 93 1:24 am

>> Actually, I provided a dictionary definition of fascism (a bit
>> different from the one you provided) in December, in response to a post
>> from Sam.  Caius probably just missed it or something..:

Thank you for quoting the definition of fascism (the wrong one is better than
none; it can be discussed), but rightism is still undefined.

I have asked to define "rightism", not the references of usage.

>>
>> fascism - a philosophy or system of government that advocates or exercises
>> a dictatorship of the extreme right, typically through the merging of state
>> and business leadership, together with an ideology of belligerent
>> nationalism. (from the American Heritage Dictionary, 1980).
>>
>> Gary W. Olson                 "When the moon is a cold chiseled dagger,

Sure, the best way to "prove" something is to put it in the definition.
Let's look at the DEFINITIONS file which is privided by the POLITICS listserver

||fascism:      Political system in which individual rights are systematically
||             denied in favor of the powers of the government.  Property
||             under facism is officially "owned" by individuals, but it can
||             be taken at any time, and will be, in order to meet State goals.

Under this definition ( i assume the authors of POLITICS guides more
authoritative) fascism has nothing to do with rightism. and in fact is slighly
leftish.

Caius

BTW: The definition file should be sent automatically to all new subscribers,
it would save us much efforts.

------------------------------------------
Instructions to get the file:

To:LISTSERV@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu              (In Bitnet To:LISTSERV@UCF1VM)
Subject:<any>
Text:

GET POLITICS DEFNS
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Date:         Thu, 7 Jan 1993 13:44:46 EST
From:         Jamie <PL436000@BROWNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Visit Colorado - #2

>From:         "Carl A. Lahetta" <U952020@RUTADMIN.BITNET>
>
>   Admendment 2 in Colorado does not deny any homosexuals of any
>constitutional rights.  The only thing #2 does is to deny minority status.
>Homosexuals earn more than the average american, have a higher educational
>level than the average american, and hold higher job positions than the
>average american.  Now, if the homosexuals are not suffering in earnings,
>education, and employment then why do they need to be a minority?  If they
>were a minority it would give them an advantage over other people above and
>beyond what they already enjoy.

Carl, get a clue, would you?

No state law can possibly deny anyone their constitutional rights.

To paraphrase St. Thomas (sorry, Val), an unconstitutional law is
no law at all.

What could you possibly mean by saying that if homosexuals constituted
a minority it would give them an advantage? Homosexuals DO constitute
a minority (unless Kinsey was GROSSLY mistaken). What advantage does
it give them?

>   There are laws on the books that do prevent people being discriminated
>against in housing and employment.

These laws no longer protect homosexuals in Colorado from discrimination
on the basis of sexual preference.

>        Admendment 2 does not condone violent behavior against homosexuals,
>or puting them in camps.

Homosexuals will be very grateful, I am certain.

Jamie
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