From: hakim@bigq.enet.dec.com
Newsgroups: soc.religion.bahai
Subject: The Claims of The Bab (was Refutation of Baha'i....) (Part 09/10)
Date: 4 Dec 92 14:34:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.47214
Organization: -

Continuation from part 8:

HS>He would usually repent and renounce his claim (4). 

Item (4) in your rather lengthy reference list offers the following:

HS>(4)* Talkhise Taarikhe Nabil Zarandi, p. 138;
HS>    Rowdat-ul-Safe Nasiri of Mirza Reza Quli Khan, vol. 10, p.311, 423;
HS>    Naqtat-ul-Kaaf, p. 133;
HS>   * Kashf-ul-Gheta'a (The removal of curtains), pp. 202-204;
HS>   * Qarne Badi'a by Showqi Afandi, Amri Pub., vol. 1, p. 423;
HS>    Inshe'ab dar Baha'iat, pp.  70-74.

I'd like to respectfully recommend that you STUDY the references which
you have offered above specially the ones I have placed "*" next to
them.

I will examine your first reference in order to demonstrate a quite
different conclusion.

Before I get to discussing this subject based on the examination of
"pages 136-138 of "Talkheese Tareekhe Nabeele Zarandee", please allow
me to offer some background on this issue from INDEPENDENT [i.e.
non-Baha'i] sources in order to leave some room for judgment for the
readership of soc.religion.islam:

"This city [i.e. Shiraz] became the arena for passionate discussions
which profoundly troubled the general peace. The curious, the
pilgrims, the scandal mongers met there commenting upon the news [i.e.
Declaration of The Bab in Mecca], approving or blaming, exalting the
young Siyyid [i.e. The Bab], or, on the contrary, heaping upon him
maledictions and insults. Everyone was excited and enervated. The
Mullas saw with bitter anxiety the growing number of adherents to the
new doctrine and their resources diminished correspondingly. It became
necessary to act, as prolonged tolerance would empty the Mosques of
their believers who were convinced that since Islam did not defend
itself, it acknowledged defeat.  On the other hand Husayn Khan,
governor of Shiraz, Nizamu'd-Dawlih, feared that, in letting things
drift, the scandal would become such that later it would be impossible
to suppress it; that would be to court disgrace.  Besides, the Bab did
not content himself with preaching, he called to himself men of
good-will. `He who knows the Word of God [This is a title for the
Messenger of God, which Jesus is referred to by as well. KH] and does
not come to His assistance in the days of violence is exactly like
those who turned away from the testimony of his holiness Husayn, son
of Ali [the grandson and cousin of Muhammad, and the third and first
Imams, respectively --rdt], at Karbila [site of Husayn's martyrdom
--rdt]. Those are the impious ones!' (Ketab-i Baynu'l Haramayn.)  The
civil interests concurring with the interests of heaven,          ^^^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Nizam'd-Dawlih and Shaykh Abu-Turab, the Imam Jum'ih [leader of
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
prayers in the mosque --rdt] agreed that humiliation should be
                             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
inflicted upon the innovator [i.e. The Bab] such as would discredit him
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
in the eyes of the populace; perhaps thus they might succeed in
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 
quieting things."

        A.L.M Nicolas, `Siyyid Ali-Muhammad dit le Bab.' pp 229-230
	[Translation of French Footnotes, p. 19 --rdt]

Now, let me quote for you from pages 136-138 of Tarikh-i Nabeele
Zarandi.  The English translation of this work appears in pages
153-154 of what is called "Nabil's Narrative" or "Dawn Breakers", the
extracts from which I will present here:

"The Bab straightway resumed His journey to Shiraz. Free and
unfettered, He went before His escort, which followed Him in an
attitude of respectful devotion. By the magic of His words, He
disarmed the hostility of His guards and transmuted their proud
arrogance into humility and love. Reaching the city, [i.e. Shiraz]
they proceeded directly to the seat of the government.  Whosoever
observed the cavalcade marching through the streets could not help but
marvel at this most unusual spectacle. Immediately Husayn Khan was
informed of the arrival of the Bab, he summoned Him to his presence.
He received Him with the utmost insolence and bade Him occupy a seat
facing him in the center of the room. He publicly rebuked Him, and in
abusive language denounced His conduct `Do you realize,' he angrily
protested, `what a great mischief you have kindled? Are you aware what
a disgrace you have become to the holy Faith of Islam and to the
august person of our sovereign? Are you not the man who claims to be
                                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
the author of a new revelation which annuls the sacred precepts of the
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Qur'an?' The Bab calmly replied: `If any bad man come unto you with
^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
news, clear up the matter at once, lest through ignorance ye harm
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
others, and be speedily constrained to repent of what ye have done.'
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
[Qur'an 49:6] These words inflamed the wrath of Husayn Khan. `What!'
^^^^^^^^^^^^^ he exclaimed. `Dare you ascribe to us evil, ignorance
and folly?'  Turning to his attendant, he bade him strike the Bab in
the face. So violent was the blow, that the Bab's turban fell to the
ground. Shaykh Abu-Torab, the Imam Jum'ih of Shiraz, who was present
at the meeting and who strongly disapproved of the conduct of Husayn
Khan, ordered that the Bab's turban be replaced upon His head, and
invited Him to be seated by his side. Turning to the governor, the
Imam Jum'ih explained to his the circumstances connected with the
revelation of the verse of the Qur'an which the Bab had quoted, and
sought by this means to calm his fury. `This verse which this youth
has quoted,' he told him, `has made a profound impression upon me. The
wise course, I feel, is to inquire into this matter with great care,
and to judge him according to the precepts of the holy Book [i.e.
Qur'an].' Husayn Khan readily consented; whereupon Shaykh Abu-Torab
                                                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
questioned the Bab regarding the nature and character of His
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Revelation. The Bab denied the claim of being either the
^^^^^^^^^^  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
representative of the promised Qa'im or the intermediary between Him
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
and the faithful. `We are completely satisfied,' replied the
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Imam Jum'ih; `we shall request you to present yourself on Friday in
the Masjid-i Vakil, and to proclaim publicly your denial.'" [pp.
150-151]

"The Bab, accompanied by Haji Mirza Siyyid Ali, arrived at the Masjid
at a time when the Imam Jum'ih had just ascended the pulpit and was
preparing to deliver his sermon. As soon as his eyes fell upon the
Bab, he publicly welcomed Him, requested Him to ascend the pulpit, and
called upon Him to address the congregation. The Bab responding to his
invitation, advanced towards him and, standing on the first step of
the staircase, prepared to address the people. `Come up higher,'
interjected the Imam Jum'ih. Complying with his wish, the Bab ascended
two more steps. As He was standing, His head hid the breast of Shaykh
Abu-Torab, who was occupying the pulpit-top.  He began by prefacing
His public declaration with an introductory discourse.  No sooner had
He uttered the opening words of `Praise be to God, who hath in truth
created the heavens and the earth,' than a certain siyyid known as
Siyyid-i-Shish-Pari, whose function was to carry the mace before the
Imam Jum'ih, insolently shouted: `Enough of this idle chatter!
Declare, now and immediately, the thing you intend to say.' The Imam
Jum'ih greatly resented the rudeness of the siyyid's remark. `Hold
your peace,' he rebuked him, `and be ashamed of you impertinence.' He
then, turning to the Bab, asked Him to be brief, as this, he said,
would allay the excitement of the people. The Bab as He faced the
                                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
congregation, declared: `The condemnation of God be upon him who
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
regards me either as a representative of the Imam [i.e. of the 12th
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Imam] or the gate thereof. The condemnation of God also upon whosoever
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
imputes to me the charge of having denied the unity of God, of having
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
repudiated the prophethood of Muhammad, the Seal of the Prophets, of
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
having rejected the truth of any of the messengers of old, or of
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
having refused to recognise the guardianship of Ali, the Commander of
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
the Faithful, or of any of the Imams who have succeeded him.' He then
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
ascended to the top of the staircase, embraced the Imam Jum'ih, and
descending to the floor of the Masjid, joined the congregation for the
observation of the Friday prayer. The Imam Jum'ih intervened and
requested Him to retire. `Your family,' he said, `is anxiously
awaiting your return. All are apprehensive lest any harm befall you.
Repair to your house and there offer your prayer, of greater merit
shall this deed be in the sight of God.'"

				The Dawn Breakers, pp. 153-154

The question presented to The Bab by the governor of Shiraz and the
kind of answer he received from The Bab demonstrates The Bab's
mindfulness of the situation and His fearlessness of the authorities.
Furthermore, the gist of the exchange between The Bab and Imam Jum'ih
is that The Bab DENIED people's understanding about Him and about of
the nature of His Mission. That is to say: He denied to be "either the
representative of the promised Qa'im or the intermediary between Him
and the faithful."  In fact He was the Qa'im/Mihdi, as I have proven
by the verses of the Book of Qayyum'ul-Asma' whose revelation was
completed several months prior to this event. Please note that in this
exchange He DID NOT by any means deny that He is the Qa'im, He just
did not DIRECTLY ANSWER who He really is.

I hope this offers you a fresh perspective on this issue.

						Part 9 of 10