HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ml@jezebel.wustl.edu (M. Lundberg)
Subject: Re: Newsgroup Vandalism (was: Re: alt.cascade anyone? (was Re: Aaaaaaaiiiieeeeee...))
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis Mo.
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 20:21:33 GMT

In article <29E90724.14D1@tct.com> chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg) writes:
>According to gcf@panix.com (Gordon Fitch):
>>the effacers deprive others of the use of the newsgroup...
>
>I contest this statement.
>
>Unlike, say, a room, you can put 100 or 1000 people in a newsgroup.
>And cascade posts can usually be killed with one keystroke by people
>using threaded newsgreaders (a reasonable step in any case).
>
>So where is the "deprivation"?
>-- 
>Chip Salzenberg at Teltronics/TCT  <chip@tct.com>, <73717.366@compuserve.com>
>      "Informix 4GL is not a 4G, and it's barely an L."  -- John Tombs


I'm glad you like them so much.  But I don't, and I don't think your
reasons are at all compelling.  Look, someone posts an amusing article,
and what happens, some dimwhit makes a cascade out of a few lines of
the message.  If I kill all of the thread, I risk missing any REAL
replies to the message.  Is that what you want?  See a message that
you don't like, and kill the thread by cascading it to death?  I tried
to "K" the threads which are turning into cascades, but I end up with
many useless entries in my Kill file.  After a while, the names of
the cascades get changed.  I don't like endlessly editing my Kill
files.  Do you want me, and anyone else with any sense, to just
unsubscribe to the groups?  If that's your intention, then this
is even worse.  If everyone on here read every cascade, and emailed
it to the originator (the last entry of the cascade) we might
see this activity stopped when his sysadmin complained about the
excessive mail recieved.  What do you say?



Matthew Lundberg         ml@jezebel.wustl.edu
Washington University, 
Dept of Mathematics      "You'll PAY to know what you REALLY think"
St. Louis, MO  63130                                    Dobbs, 1961
Xref: sparky news.misc:951 alt.config:2998 alt.postmodern:1305
Date: 16 Apr 92 01:54:32 GMT
From: axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au (Iain Sinclair)
Newsgroups: news.misc,alt.config,alt.postmodern
Subject: Re: Newsgroup Vandalism
Reply-To: axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au
Organization: University of Technology, Sydney

gcf@panix.com (Gordon Fitch) writes:
 >I thought it would be interesting to ask why alt.postmodern and
 >certain other groups are vandalized by having hundreds of
 >"cascade" articles posted in them and others -- like, say,
 >comp.protocols.tcp-ip -- are not.

If cascades poured into a newsgroup like that, the readers wouldn't be
talking about the merits of killfile/threading technology, they'd be
writing terse letters to the participants' news administrators.

Cascades demonstrate that Usenet can be made pretty unusable for a
large number of people.  The situation will necessarily worsen before
it improves.


--
Iain Sinclair   axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au                             ne cede.
Newsgroups: news.misc
From: zinzow@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Mark Zinzow)
Subject: Re: Public access to news
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 19:21:08 GMT

mi@ponder.csci.unt.edu (Mark Interrante) writes:

>I have two friends that need access to internet mail and news.  I have 
>heard that there are low cost public services available.  Can someone
>please point me to the appropiate sources.
      Lists are available via any of the following:
            o  anonymous uucp from lgnp1.
                    +1 215 348 9727 [Telebit access]
                    login: nuucp  NO PWD   [no rmail permitted]
                this list: /usr/spool/uucppublic/nixpub
               short list: /usr/spool/uucppublic/nixpub.short
            o  "*NIX Depot" BBS on lgnp1.
            o  USENET, regular posts to:
                    comp.misc
                    alt.bbs
            o  the nixpub electronic mailing list.
                    to be included or deleted from this distribution,
                    send mail to nixpub-list-request@ls.com.
            o  anonymous ftp from GVL.Unisys.COM [128.126.220.102]
                    under ~/pub/nixpub/{long,short}
            o  archive server from cs.widener.edu.
                    mail to archive-server@cs.widener.edu
                    Subject: or body of
                            send nixpub long
                     or
                            send nixpub short
                     or
                            send nixpub long short

Newsgroups: news.misc,alt.config,alt.drugs,alt.postmodern,alt.angst
From: gcf@panix.com (Gordon Fitch)
Subject: Re: Newsgroup Vandalism (was: Re: alt.cascade anyone? (was Re: Aaaaaaaiiiieeeeee...))
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 16:47:38 GMT
Organization: mydog in exile

cgy@cs.brown.edu (Curtis Yarvin) writes:

-- well, let's skip over the razor-sharp satire and
recycled talk.bizarre material --

gf:
| >Since your contempt for my writing seems uninformed, I won't
| >reply further except to note that you haven't answered any of
| >the questions I posed or implied except in the most superficial
| >manner.

cy:
| Ding!  On the money there, Gordo; now ask why.
| 
| Ah, heck, I'll tell you why.  It's true, I'm laughing at you; not because
| you're funny, but because you're a little sad, in a pathetic sort of way.
| Offhand (this is your daily clue), I can't imagine anything more pathetic
| than being serious about something silly.  (This is your cue for a real
| snappy repartee.)

I don't think you're laughing at me; I don't think you can
answer the questions in a way that isn't embarrassing to
you, for some reason, and one way of avoiding them is 
clowning.  I like the phrase "a little sad, in a pathetic
sort of way," though.  You show a certain, ah, _flair_
for expressive language there.

gf:
| >I don't know what's been going on in alt.drugs, but alt.postmodern has seen
| >hundreds of these articles already, and they're still coming.

cy:
| Well, if you expended your energies in learning how to killfile them,
| instead of deconstructing them, you might have an easier time of it.  Doncha
| think?

Actually, I wasn't paying much attention to the cascades,
because I do know how to filter them out, but people complained 
to me about them -- some people just read the net, they don't 
know anything about programming and don't want to, and their
newsreaders may not have a kill function.  And then when 
that fellow from alt.drugs started in, I thought I'd 
"deconstruct" them a bit, and see if I could get any action.  
And I did.  In other words, I got a few people to play a
different game, one that's more entertaining to me.

However, three iterations of you exhibiting your contempt for 
things and people you don't know anything about is getting 
pretty boring, too.  Maybe I should have left the cascades 
alone.
-- 
* Gordon Fitch    |    gcf@panix.com 
Xref: sparky news.misc:893 alt.config:2861 alt.drugs:7459 alt.postmodern:1217 alt.angst:1253
From: honig@thalia.ics.uci.edu (David A. Honig)
Subject: Re: alt.cascade anyone? (was Re: Aaaaaaaiiiieeeeee...)
Newsgroups: news.misc,alt.config,alt.drugs,alt.postmodern,alt.angst
Reply-To: honig@ics.uci.edu (David A. Honig)
Organization: UC Disneyland, Dept. of Info. & Comp. Sci.
Date: 11 Apr 92 01:34:43 GMT

 billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes:
>honig@thalia.ics.uci.edu (David A. Honig) writes:
>
>: David A. Honig
>:
>: "Oh, a vegetarian, eh?  Well, at my house, even the plants eat meat."
>
>I love it. Is it original?
>
>Bill

Yep.  Got a new roomie a few months ago, and the dude grows carnivorous
plants.  As a hobby.  In real life, he grows brain cells on petri dishes.
Just perfect.

--
David A. Honig

"Oh, a vegetarian, eh?  Well, at my house, even the plants eat meat."
From: andyross@infopls.chi.il.us (Andrew Rossmann)
Newsgroups: news.misc
Subject: Re: Public access to news
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 92 10:52:11 CDT
Organization: INFOPLUS support, Wheeling, IL

mi@ponder.csci.unt.edu (Mark Interrante) writes:

> I have two friends that need access to internet mail and news.  I have
> heard that there are low cost public services available.  Can someone
> please point me to the appropiate sources.

  There is the Nixpub list, which someone mentioned. It's limited to Unix
or varient systems.

  You can also look at the Netpub listing. Mail to

netpub-info@infopls.chi.il.us.

--
Andrew Rossmann            | Sysop of Infoplus BBS, +1 708 537 0247
andyross@infopls.chi.il.us | Infoplus Support, latest version available
 uunet!infopls!andyross    | by logging in as infoplus. [v32bis/v42bis]
     (BONK) NOT the mama!! (BONK) NOT the mama!! (BONK) NOT the mama!!
Xref: sparky news.misc:902 alt.config:2881 alt.drugs:7512 alt.postmodern:1229 alt.angst:1262
From: gcf@panix.com (Gordon Fitch)
Newsgroups: news.misc,alt.config,alt.drugs,alt.postmodern,alt.angst
Subject: Newsgroup Vandalism (was: Re: alt.cascade anyone? (was Re: Aaaaaaaiiiieeeeee...))
Date: 12 Apr 92 16:38:43 GMT
Organization: mydog in exile

|>cgy@cs.brown.edu (Curtis Yarvin) writes:
|>| You might as well limit the damage and spring for a visa to Mars, before you
|>| just drift away through the Oort cloud and out into interstellar space.

gcf@panix.com (Gordon Fitch) writes:
| >So what are you saying?  That some people have a right
| >to discuss what they want in the newsgroups of their
| >choice, and others don't, and you're the judge?

cgy@cs.brown.edu (Curtis Yarvin):
| Hey, hey!  Let's not get paranoid about this.  Christ, I can practically
| hear your teeth chattering from coffee and cold rage.  Relax.  Take a
| Valium.  And remember:
| 
| You have a perfectly good right to post foolish babble.
| 
| I have a perfectly good right to say you're a babbling fool.

Sure, but that's off the subject.  The subject was vandalism,
and since one aspect of "postmodernism", if there is such a
thing, is the investigation of the political aspects of culture,
I thought it would be interesting to ask why alt.postmodern and
certain other groups are vandalized by having hundreds of
"cascade" articles posted in them and others -- like, say,
comp.protocols.tcp-ip -- are not.  Effacing a newsgroup is a
political act; the effacers deprive others of the use of the
newsgroup, in effect taking power over them in that particular
area.  Evidently some newsgroups, or rather, the people who want
to use them, have valid rights, and others don't.

Since your contempt for my writing seems uninformed, I won't
reply further except to note that you haven't answered any of
the questions I posed or implied except in the most superficial
manner.  Why don't you give it a try?  For instance: why do you
think alt.postmodern or alt.drugs should exist only as
appendixes to talk.bizarre?  This seems to be the position
you're taking.  And I invite others of the "aw, lighten up"
school to participate.  I don't know what's been going on in
alt.drugs, but alt.postmodern has seen hundreds of these
articles already, and they're still coming.
-- 
* Gordon Fitch    |    gcf@panix.com 
Newsgroups: news.misc
From: tinsel@uiuc.edu (Thomas Aaron Insel)
Subject: Re: "Information Request" idea
Originator: tai50080@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
Reply-To: tinsel@uiuc.edu
Organization: {not speaking for the} University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 17:32:48 GMT

kraig@biostr.washington.edu (Kraig Eno) writes:

>When you post a question or a forsale message or whatever, you connect to 
>the NNRFI service that's closest to you, and ask for a unique ID to 
>include in your message.  In my case, I've made it easy by making a button 
>on my NetNews reader stack that automatically connects and then pastes the 
>reply into the message composition window.  It takes about 2 seconds, and 
>produces a line like the following:
>NNRFI# 1335538288 (axon.biostr.washington.edu)

>When someone reads this message, they can say to themselves, "I 
>wonder if that person still wants replies?" and on my News stack, I can 
>press a button and get the answer -- it queries the server and replies 
>either "still outstanding" or "not present".  Note that the server address 
>is included in the message, so there's no ambiguity about where the ID is 
>registered.

This is a nifty idea, but there's one more problem.  There are still, and
will be for an awful long time, a plurality (if not a majority, I'm rather
ignorant about USENET statistics) of news-readers who aren't on the internet,
and therefore can't connect directly to the server.  If this were implemented
by mail, delays would make it useless.  As long as many private systems
don't have internet access, I can't see this as very practical.
-- 
Thomas Aaron Insel (tinsel@uiuc.edu)
  I speak for myself, and not for the State or University of Illinois.
  "We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty." -- Edward R. Murrow
From: cavasin@convex.com (Vince Cavasin)
Newsgroups: news.misc
Subject: FTP FAQ??
Date: 8 Apr 92 16:26:31 GMT
Article-I.D.: muse.cavasin.702750391
Distribution: news
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

I was told there was a FAQ concerning the use of FTP, and that it was kept in
this newsgroup.  Is this true?  And if so, where is it? (If it has been posted
recently, it must be expiered at my cite; I only see articles going back to
3/31).

Please email me the info if possible.

thanks,
vince

P.S. I know FTP, this is just for reference for a faq I manage in another
newsgroup.
From: kaminski@netcom.com (Peter Kaminski)
Newsgroups: news.misc
Subject: Re: "Information Request" idea
Date: 14 Apr 92 05:46:21 GMT
Organization: The Information Deli - via Netcom / San Jose, California

[In <1992Apr11.03628.2459@biostr.washington.edu>, Kraig Eno
<kraig@biostr.washington.edu> proposes a "Request For Information"
tracking service, so those who might email an answer to a question can
check if the question has been answered or not.]

It's a neat idea, but still a bit unwieldy for general use at this
time.

A more practical solution for now may just be to encourage potential
question-answerers to reply to more questions with something like
"I can answer that if you don't get other answers.  Just email me back
and ask."

Here's a complementary problem: all the email answers just go to the
person asking the question.  That's okay if nobody else is interested,
or if the original poster posts a summary... but how many times have
you seen "me too" posts, or emailed the poster asking for a summary?

I'd like a service that acts as a mini mailing list which springs into
existence around the original question.  To do that, the original
poster would mail the question to the list server, telling it which
group(s) to post to.

Replies could then be either "me too" requests, telling the list
server to mail all the answers to the question (or an index) back, or
real answers, which would be distributed to the rest of the list.
Lists would probably have an imposed lifetime of a few weeks, and
would be automatically archived.

-- 
Peter Kaminski
kaminski@netcom.com
Xref: sparky news.misc:914 alt.config:2905 alt.postmodern:1249 alt.angst:1276
From: lbn@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: news.misc,alt.config,alt.postmodern,alt.angst
Subject: <None>
Date: 13 Apr 92 12:42:24 EDT
Distribution: world,news
Organization: Cornell University

In article <BMIsI6.1Ax@world.std.com>,
kibo@world.std.com (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes: 
> In article <1992Apr10.224358.29991@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes:
>>cgy@cs.brown.edu (Curtis Yarvin) writes:
>>:
>>: It's a free country, you know.
>>
>>Somewhat. The freedoms are disappearing at a rapid rate.
> 
> Why--that ought to be NOT ALLOWED!!!
> 
> 							-- K.

if paradoxes really existed you wouldn't.
From: emace@tenet.edu (Russell Mace)
Newsgroups: news.misc
Subject: test
Date: 8 Apr 1992 18:47:54 -0500
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

test.tst
Newsgroups: news.misc,alt.config,alt.drugs,alt.postmodern,alt.angst
From: chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg)
Subject: Re: Newsgroup Vandalism (was: Re: alt.cascade anyone? (was Re: Aaaaaaaiiiieeeeee...))
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 16:53:33 GMT
Organization: TC Telemanagement, Clearwater, FL

According to gcf@panix.com (Gordon Fitch):
>Apparently not everybody has the necessary software;

No excuse: it's free.

>or they don't know how to use it;

No excuse: there are manuals.

>or maybe they're getting their stuff over a channel the government
>(or some other daddy) doesn't pay for.

TANSTAAFL.
-- 
Chip Salzenberg at Teltronics/TCT  <chip@tct.com>, <73717.366@compuserve.com>
      "Informix 4GL is not a 4G, and it's barely an L."  -- John Tombs
From: ns@csd.cri.dk (Nick Sandru)
Newsgroups: dk.chat,news.misc
Subject: Titanic, 80 years ago
Date: 15 Apr 92 12:31:32 GMT
Organization: Computer Resources International A/S

On the 14th of April 1912 the British passenger liner Titanic sank during
her first voyage across the Atlantic, after a collision with an iceberg.
The collision took place at 11:40pm and the ship went down on the 15th
of April, at 2:20am. More than 1,500 passengers and crew were lost in the
disaster; the 705 survivors were rescued during the next morning by the
US ship Carpathia.

On the 1st of September 1985 the wreckage of the Titanic was discovered at
a depth of 3960 m by the US-French team led by Robert Ballard.

Nick Sandru

-- 
Nick Sandru - System administrator   | e-mail: ns@csd.cri.dk         (office)
Columbus Space Station SDE Project   |         ns@sandes.cri.dk      (home)
Computer Resources International A/S | phone:  +45 45 82 21 00 x2036 (office)
Bregnerodvej 144                     |         +45 47 98 06 27       (home)
DK-3460 Birkerod, Denmark            | fax:    +45 45 82 17 11
Newsgroups: news.misc,alt.config,alt.drugs,alt.fan.john-palmer,alt.postmodern,alt.angst
From: dwharper@eos.ncsu.edu (DANTE WILLIAM HARPER)
Subject: New and Confused
Reply-To: dwharper@eos.ncsu.edu (DANTE WILLIAM HARPER)
Organization: Project EOS - North Carolina State University
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 14:59:23 GMT

Can anyone explain to me about Cascade(tm)-- I'm interested, very interested,
very very interested.  Virus?  A group net pathology unprogrammed?
A pat left scatology and potted palm?
A rat's deft cat theology and swishing tong?

Um?  Wherefore, or um, howfore art thou, net vandalism?


Grafitti is the only art form.


please help.
Newsgroups: news.misc
From: mholtz@sactoh0.sac.ca.us (Mark A. Holtz)
Subject: FTP Mail Server
Organization: Sacramento Public Access Unix
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 92 00:01:59 GMT

Is there a mail server which will allow me to receive files via
uuencoded e-mail from a FTP only site? I am asking because I am
calling from a public access UNIX system (still), and have no FTP
capacity to speak of.

Thanks in advance.
-- 
          Mark Arthur Holtz           <:> UUCP: PacBell.COM! -> mholtz!sactoh0
* Keeper - Star Trek List of Lists    <:>     ucbvax!csusac! /
* Compiler - "The Simpsons" Air Dates <:>
 and "The Simpsons" Episode Guide     <:> Internet: mholtz@sactoh0.sac.ca.us
Newsgroups: news.misc,alt.config,alt.drugs,alt.postmodern,alt.angst
From: chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg)
Subject: Re: Newsgroup Vandalism
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 16:52:08 GMT
Organization: TC Telemanagement, Clearwater, FL

According to arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee):
>Who says these people _choose_ to use a newsreader without a kill function?

They choose to access Usenet at a certain system.  They could use a
public access site if their current software is unsatisfactory.
-- 
Chip Salzenberg at Teltronics/TCT  <chip@tct.com>, <73717.366@compuserve.com>
      "Informix 4GL is not a 4G, and it's barely an L."  -- John Tombs
From: jik@athena.mit.edu (Jonathan I. Kamens)
Newsgroups: news.misc
Subject: Re: "Information Request" idea
Date: 15 Apr 92 01:56:31 GMT
	<1992Apr12.002825.10621@wndrsvr.la.ca.us>
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

In article <1992Apr12.002825.10621@wndrsvr.la.ca.us> andyb@wndrsvr.la.ca.us (Andy Brager) writes:

   If the original poster sends out a cancel message when he has his
   answer, the problem would go away I think.

Compare:

*) A few mail messages traveeling to one user's site and being stored
in his mailbox.  He may even have to spend a few minutes thanking
people for responding to his mail.

*) A cancel message propagated to the entire USENET and stored in
every news spool.

The former is a more effective utilization of the USENET's collective
resources than the latter.  It just isn't "cost-effective" to transmit
a cancel message to the entire USENET just so that a single user can
get a little bit less E-mail.

-- 
Jonathan Kamens						jik@MIT.Edu
MIT Information Systems/Athena		    Moderator, news.answers
    (Send correspondence related to the news.answers newsgroup
	{and ONLY correspondence related to the newsgroup}
		 to news-answers-request@MIT.Edu.)
Xref: sparky news.misc:943 alt.config:2978 alt.drugs:7708 alt.postmodern:1287 alt.angst:1311
From: denisec@amadeus.wr.tek.com (Denise Caire)
Newsgroups: news.misc,alt.config,alt.drugs,alt.postmodern,alt.angst
Subject: Re: Newsgroup Vandalism (was: Re: alt.cascade anyone? (was Re: Aaaaaaaiiiieeeeee...))
Date: 15 Apr 92 16:21:02 GMT
Followup-To: news.misc
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton,  OR.

In article <1992Apr13.202133.9238@wuecl.wustl.edu> ml@jezebel.wustl.edu (M. Lundberg) writes:
>If everyone on here read every cascade, and emailed
>it to the originator (the last entry of the cascade) we might
>see this activity stopped when his sysadmin complained about the
>excessive mail recieved.  What do you say?

Hm-m-m, sounds reasonable.  I have been lurking and am also only
temporarily amused by cascades.  After a couple, no more please.
(Also notice how many of the same people are responding to them.
If that group likes them do much, then get an alt.cascades group.)
Adios,
D.
Newsgroups: news.misc