HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: craig@kralizec.zeta.org.au (Craig Dewick)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad,rec.models.railroad
Subject: Re: diesel terminology questions
Date: 14 Dec 1992 07:33:44 +1100
Organization: Kralizec Dialup Unix Sydney: +61-2-837-1183 V.42bis

smb@ulysses.att.com (Steven Bellovin) writes:

>I keep running across terminology I don't understand.

>What is a ``winterization hatch''?  How about a ``rerail frog''?
>What are ``lift rings'' used to lift?

Well, I can't explain what a 'winterization hatch' is, since here in
Australia we don't need them on our diesels.

A rerail frog is just that -  a frog-shaped device to re-rail things
after they've de-railed.

Lift rings are usually found on the tops of removable panels over the
engine compartment on diesels. Since most gear is lifted out by cranes
during overhaul, the panels on the roof have to be removable, and the
grappling hooks of the crane lift these panels via the lift rings.

If you've ever seen container flat cars, or plain flat cars, with metal
rings stuck on the side sills, these are the same, although used for a
different purpose. On the freight cars theyre sometimes used as rope
anchors.
-- 
 Craig Dewick               |        - Railway Preservation Industries -
 Send email to:             |            Supporting the Preservation
 craig@kralizec.zeta.org.au |          of Australia's Railway Heritage
Xref: sparky rec.railroad:9907 rec.models.railroad:2704
From: jbvb@vax.ftp.com (James B. VanBokkelen)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad,rec.models.railroad
Subject: Re: diesel terminology questions
Keywords: lift rings
Date: 15 Dec 92 21:47:09 GMT
Reply-To: jbvb@ftp.com
Distribution: na
Organization: FTP Software, Inc., Wakefield, MA
Nntp-Software: PC/TCP NNTP

In article <XykFVB4w165w@1776.COM> bob@1776.COM (Robert Coe) writes:

    grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins) writes:
    > In article <1992Dec5.201316.19497@ulysses.att.com> smb@ulysses.att.com (Steve
    > > What are ``lift rings'' used to lift?
    > 
    > Probably an eye-bolt or socket for one used to provide a defined lifting
    > point for a car-body or piece of large equipment - engine/generator...
    
    Most (all?) of the MBTA's post-RDC commuter cars have these...

Far as I know, the German single-deck cars and the Japanese double-deckers
are the only ones with roof lift points designed for the whole carbody.  This
is because the bodies came here via ship, and got unloaded via overhead crane.
The Pullman cars don't, neither did the RDCs.

Pennsy cab units had big lift points on the nose, but I guess that it is
easy enough to put a sling under a hood unit so the practice didn't continue.
What diesel detailing parts vendors mean when they say "lift rings" are much
smaller, to pick up a roof hatch or a piece of the hood.

James B. VanBokkelen		2 High St., North Andover, MA  01845
FTP Software Inc.		voice: (508) 685-4000  fax: (508) 794-4488
From: wbrill@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Warren Brill)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 22:52:04 GMT
Subject: Re: WM Rollingstock
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.railroad

This kinda reminds me of watching for Great Northern "Smiling Goat" boxcars.
There still seem to be a few of these around. Does any of you BN [and 
predecessor lines] fans know when the Smiling Goats were painted in this
scheme. BTW, the one I see in Fort Collins North Yard from time to time is
so rusted, it's hard to tell whether it's Big Sky Blue or Green. Anybody
know?
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: Steve_Hooper@mindlink.bc.ca (Steve Hooper)
Subject: Re: NS bridge/Kids Accident
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 19:33:57 GMT

> x92ochs1@gw.wmich.edu writes:
>
>   I remember seeing this same story on Rescue 911 a within the last year or
>   two.  It seemed like there were two little kids playing on the tracks
> near
>   their home when a train suddenly approached.  For some reason(probably
> panic)
>   one child stayed on the tracks.  A crew member jumped out and lay  over
> the
>   child.  I think the crew member told the other boy to go home and tell
> his
>   mother to call 911.  Now I believe(and hope) there is a fence between
> their
>   backyard and the railroad.


Well, if it indeed occured, there is no way the crew member lay down ON the
child.  Perhaps beside him and held him down or something.

I'd also hazard a guess that the train that went over them was not a
"standard" engine (ie a mainline unit).


--

 steve_hooper@mindlink.bc.ca   []  The Great White North in
 OR      a777@mindlink.bc.ca   []   Vancouver, BC, CANADA
Conductor on the Cascade Sub.  []         CP Rail
                     Opinions are my OWN!
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: CZ94@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA (CZ94)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: RE: New Superliner Question
Date: 15 Dec 92 14:48:44 GMT
Organization: McGill University

In article <22862@drutx.ATT.COM> sef@drutx.ATT.COM (Scott E. Farleigh) writes:
>
>Out of curiosity, who is building the new Superliner equipment?

Bombardier.

>I thought that after the original order of Superliner equipment was
>completed that Pullman went out of business. Also, how much new
>equipment was ordered?

According to the Sept. 1991 Passenger Train Journal, the order is
for 140 cars: 6 deluxe sleepers, 55 standard sleepers, 20 diners,
15 lounges, 12 crew dorms, and 32 coaches.  There's an option for
an additional 39 cars.

Tom Box
CZ94@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA
From: Steve_Hooper@mindlink.bc.ca (Steve Hooper)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Switch Heaters?
Date: 18 Dec 92 20:42:10 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada

> Jon Roma writes:
>
> Steve_Hooper@mindlink.bc.ca (Steve Hooper) writes:
>
> >Nope...as a rule, they run full time.  I *THINK* they work on a
> temperature
> >basis.  IE When the temp. drops below a certain amount, they come on.  I
> may
> >be wrong on that though.
>
> I don't know about the snow melters on the CP Rail but around here, most
> snow melters in CTC territory are controlled by the dispatcher as part of
> the
> CTC system.  There are typically levers for the snow melters just like the
> ones used to control switches and signals.  An indication from the field
> location is returned to the dispatcher to let him know whether the snow
> melter
> fires up properly.



Hi Jon,

You got my interest up, so I just called the Cheif Dispatcher here in
Vancouver.  He told me you are correct...they are remotely comtrolled from
the dispatcher's office.  Aparently they have a seperate panel of controls
for the switch heaters.

Learn something new every day!  :)


--

 steve_hooper@mindlink.bc.ca   []  The Great White North in
 OR      a777@mindlink.bc.ca   []   Vancouver, BC, CANADA
Conductor on the Cascade Sub.  []         CP Rail
                     Opinions are my OWN!
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: kasprj@isaac.its.rpi.edu (Jim Kasprzak)
Subject: Double-decker LIRR cars?
Reply-To: kasprj@rpi.edu
Organization: The Big Wedge 
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 19:10:34 GMT


 A little more than a year ago (I think it was summer of '91), I recall
seeing four or five double-decker cars in the LIRR's Sunnyside yards. 
To the best of my memory they had the 'M' logo on them and the bright 
yellow stripe that I usually see on the Huntington line cars. 
 
 The thing is, I haven't seen any sign of these cars since then. I'd 
thought that maybe they were going to start using double-deckers for
rush hour. Have I just never been on the train at the right time, or
were these actually strays that found their way down to Long Island
from Boston, or was I just hallucinating the whole thing?
------------------------------------------------------------------
     __  Live from Capitaland, heart of the Empire State...
 ___/  | Jim Kasprzak, computer operator @ RPI, Troy, NY, USA
/____ *| Sam Adams,Spaten# Life is too short #Hudson Lager,Beck's 
     \_| Pilsener Urquell#to drink cheap beer#Pete's Wicked Ale
      ====  e-mail: kasprj@rpi.edu or kasprzak@mts.rpi.edu 
 
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: pierson@cimcad.enet.dec.com (Dave Pierson)
Subject: Re: Diesel Multiple Units
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: 18 DEC 92 08:34:00    

In article <57711@dime.cs.umass.edu>, pop@cs.umass.edu ( Robin Popplestone )
writes, in part:

>A ubiquitous, if not always greatly loved, feature of the less-metropolitan
>reaches of European railways  for the last two  thirds of this century  has
>been the practice  of putting  passengers and a  diesel engine  in the  one
>vehicle.
....

>Every time I  sit in a  MBTA commuter train  of an evening,  two thirds  of
>which is not in off-peak use, I wonder why, in this most  under-electrified
>of rail systems, the self-propelled diesel train is apparently extinct. Can
>anybody enlighten me?

	Not, perhaps, in specifics, but in out line....  The USA had a fleet
	of DMU's, usually called "Budd Cars" or "RDCs", after the maker and
	model, respectively.  Boston (where the MBTA runs the commuter rail)
	had a sizable fleet, originally RR owned, then owned by the MBTA.

	But.  They aged.  They became old enough to be notably unreliable,
	tho, in their youth, and middle age, they were very good.  There is
	a balance point, somewhere about 2.7 cars, at a guess, where loco
	haulage (with diesel) starts to be a win over DMU's.  Longer trains
	can be run, of course, but the long term maintainance costs start to
	favor a single engine, rather than "n" distributed down the train.
	Also, Federal funding is sometimes easier to get for new equipment
	than for major rebuilds of older.  Since no new DMUs wer to be had,
	loco hauled got another advantage.

	DMUs were tried.  I saw one that MBTA brought over from Italy, for
	trials.  Rumor has ith there was one from the UK.  Budd built the
	SPV 2000 series.  THOSE did nto work out real well.  (Long post
	omitted...)

	If traffic MUST be maintained, and one or two cars are all that is
	needed, a DMU is the way to go.  If more cars are needed (and MBTA runs
	crush loads, during rush hour, on four and six car trains), then the
	balance for all expenses tilts towards loco haulage:  For a DMU, if an
	engine is down, the seats are idle.  For an engine, if the engine is
	down, the seats stay in service.  (The RDC's had "quick change" engine
	facilities built into the design, but even so....)

	I have puzzled myself as to the underutilized seats trundling back and
	forth.  My guess is the the costs of paying to uncouple and couple,
	to run "just the right train" are high.  There is also a risk of
	injury and of induced unreliability (faulty mating of connectors) in
	coupling and uncoupling.  The costs of hauling the emties around are
	low (fuel is small part of RR expenses, under 10%.  Reducing a four
	car train to two cars doesn't reduce the consumption by 50%.) 

thanks
dave pierson			|the facts, as accurately as i can manage,
Digital Equipment Corporation	|the opinions, my own.
40 Old Bolton Rd		|I am the NRA.
Stow, Mass 01775 USA		pierson@msd26.enet.dec.com
"He has read everything, and, to his credit, written nothing."  A J Raffles
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: billg@bony1.bony.com (Bill Gripp)
Subject: Is Gene Fusco Out There?
Organization: LA&W RR
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 20:40:35 GMT

I just received fl9g.gif from uupsi!railnet.nshore.org!uucp.  It is
"signed" Gene Fusco.  Does anyone know how I can contact Gene?
Thanks.

Bill
From: pierson@cimcad.enet.dec.com (Dave Pierson)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: CMStP&P RR
Date: 18 Dec 92 01:35:10 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation

In article <1992Dec17.194948.17849@mixcom.com>, Joe.Russ
<Joe.Russ@mixcom.mixcom.com> writes...

>>diamond logo in the late 1940's.  However, the official corporate
>>name remained Chicago, Milwaukee, St. Paul & Pacific until the
>>Milwaukee was merged into the Soo Line in 1985.
> 
>Okay, if that was the official corporate name, where did the (Chicago
>Milwaukee Corp.) come from? Keep in mind there are currently two CMCs
>- one is the above which still holds railroad interests in trackage,
>equipment, a shortline or two, and some other businesses while the
>other, the CMC Heartland Partners, is a spin-off of it which was
>formed to handle the real estate transactions after the merger but has
>failed (at least here in Milwaukee) to do anything.

	I can't touch the specifics, but would point out that corporations
	routinely change names, the way some of us change clothes.

	Especially if there is a bankruptcy, or merger, or reorg, whole
	enitities are set up, sometimes to exist for only 24 hours, then
	knocked down.   The only way to tel 'em apart is with lotsa research,
	and the naming can get very finicky as to small changes, or recycling
	of earlier names.  I am pretty sure that Penn Central still exists,
	ferinstance, as reasonbly active & succesful small property company,
	based on some leftover real estate from the PRR/NYCRR merger.

thanks
dave pierson			|the facts, as accurately as i can manage,
Digital Equipment Corporation	|the opinions, my own.
40 Old Bolton Rd		|I am the NRA.
Stow, Mass 01775 USA		pierson@msd26.enet.dec.com
"He has read everything, and, to his credit, written nothing."  A J Raffles
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: hintzman@hpljah.hpl.hp.com (Jeff Hintzman)
Subject: Re: Grand Canyon Railway
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 22:30:29 GMT
Reply-To: hintzman@hpljah.hpl.hp.com
Organization: HP IC Business Division R&D, Palo Alto, CA

In article <3d6K02l22f8i01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com>, jaz00@diag.amdahl.com (Joe Zuk) writes:
|> Theres been some talk about the Grand Canyon Railway on the net
|> the last few days; so here is a short trip report that I did on
|> the railway last year. They may have gotten more equipment since
|> I wrote this so please feel free to update it.
|> 
       stuff deleted
|>
|> If you are planing on taking this train keep in mind that it will take
|> all day. The train can only average 30 mph because the passager cars
|> are on friction bareings. So the run time to the canyon is 2 1/2 hours.

I have also taken this trip a few years ago and highly recommend it.
The steam, of course, is great, and the Northern Arizona scenery along
the way, although much less spectacular than the Canyon, is beautiful
in it's own way.

Now to the question:  Why do friction bearings limit the speed of the
train?  Related question:  is it true that most railroads will not allow
friction bearing stuff to pass over their rails anymore?  What does
this mean for tourist railroads and excursions?  What the heck is a
friction bearing, anyway (I can probably guess...)


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeff Hintzman                                  hintzman@hpljah.hpl.hp.com
Hewlett-Packard Integrated Circuit Business Division 
Palo Alto, CA                                              (415) 857-7616
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: spangler@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Bill Spangler)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 21:39:45 GMT
Subject: Re: GG0.5 et al
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server
Newsgroups: rec.railroad

> In the April, 1971 issue of Trains, in the RR News Photo section, they
> have two pictures of the 1/2 GG1. Part of the caption read, "One half of
> GG! 4848 emerged from the PC shops at Wilmington, Del."... So I guess
> this puts a date on the mysterious engine. 

Could someone scan this and post it as a GIF?
Thanks, Bill Spangler
From: pierson@cimcad.enet.dec.com (Dave Pierson)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Employee TTs (was Re: Talking Detectors)
Date: 20 Dec 92 15:26:13 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation

In article <1992Dec19.033911.1489@bert.eecs.uic.edu>, rorem@bert.eecs.uic.edu
(Doug Rorem) writes...

>Interesting thread... But I have a basic question. Where does one get a
>timetable for the road in question?  Do RR companies just hand them out?
>Thanks.

	Such info is generally in an Employee TT.  In general they are not
	handed out.  In fact emplyees have been fired (and, rarely) railfans
	hassled when they show up in "outside" hands.  (The flip side happens
	even more rarely:  A friend and i were "exploring" some local RoW.  The
	local (non RR) PD pulled down, checked the truck (parked safely clear
	of the RoW, we were 1/2 mi down the RoW), and left.  AFTER noticing
	Rulebooks and Employee TTs on the dash.)

	They are however, a standard uitem of commerce at trainshows, with
	strongest representation for the "local" RR.  I believe they may be
	supplied to important customers, and a friend, who does RR consulting,
	has access to one online  (NOPE, NOT PUBLIC ACCESS).

	The include (varying from line to line): portions of operating rules,
	portions of signal rules, local special conditions, location and
	length of sidings, rr frequencies, etc...  The other key piece is the
	book of operating rules.  Most USA RRs are either "Uniform Code of
	Operating Rules" (western) or North American Code of Operating Rules(?)
	NORAC (Eastern.).

thanks
dave pierson			|the facts, as accurately as i can manage,
Digital Equipment Corporation	|the opinions, my own.
40 Old Bolton Rd		|I am the NRA.
Stow, Mass 01775 USA		pierson@msd26.enet.dec.com
"He has read everything, and, to his credit, written nothing."  A J Raffles
From: jaz00@diag.amdahl.com (Joe Zuk)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Grand Canyon Railway
Date: 16 Dec 92 20:45:37 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Cupertino, CA

Theres been some talk about the Grand Canyon Railway on the net
the last few days; so here is a short trip report that I did on
the railway last year. They may have gotten more equipment since
I wrote this so please feel free to update it.

Well over the holiday I went to the Grand Canyon and went on the
Grand Canyon Railway. The train starts at Williams and goes to the
South Rim of the Grand Canyon. It covers the old Stanta Fe line that
has not had sever since the 70's. The railway had to rebuild the
tracks and most of the wooden trestles. This was a really enjoyable
trip, the crew was very professional and knowledgeable. While on the
the train they are always coming by and passing out soft drinks or
snacks. They also have some other entertainers on the train.

If you are planing on taking this train keep in mind that it will take
all day. The train can only average 30 mph because the passager cars
are on friction bareings. So the run time to the canyon is 2 1/2 hours.
They give you about 3 hours of lay over time at the canyon. You can
also spend a night at the canyon and take the train back the next day.
The 3 hours of lay over is good amount of time to spend having lunch
or maybe seeing some of the shops or just sitting by the canyon. While
on the train you can also buy bus trips to other parts of the canyon or
for a big screen movie. For me the best thing about this ride is that
we were not in the car at all that day.

I also understand that they are planing to lay some tracks to the
airport. Which is about 30min outside the canyon.

For all of the hog heads:

They currently have 3 steam engines that were built in the 1920s. They
are ALCOs 2 8 0, the railway coverted them from coal to oil and fully
restored them. They also use reclaimed water in all of there steam
enginees. By the way they also have 3 other enginees that are under-
going restoration.

While we were there I noticed that they also have a GP7. Which I think
they use for maineance work and as a back up in case the steam enginees
are down. I also understand that they are getting a FP4.

Passager cars:
They have 17 ex-souther pacific passager cars. All of them are
Harriman style built by Pullman in 1923. They are all fully restored,
steam heated and very comfortable. These ex-SP cars all ran on the

San Jose-San Francisco runs, so you maybe able to find that car you
use to commute in.

The railway has also got 11 Clerestory Style cars built by Bethlehem
steel from 1925 to 1928. These were originally ran on the Central
New Jersey Railroad.
Newsgroups: rec.railroad,rec.models.railroad
From: dawdy@tellabs.com (Dan Dawdy)
Subject: My Christmas Card to the Net Posted
Organization: Tellabs, Lisle, IL
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 00:02:38 GMT

I have posted the following GIF to alt.binaries.pictures.misc.
I used this photo as my Christmas card a few years ago.  Photo
was taken by me back in 1984.  Also, someone has been posting
beer coasters on the same group.  I have posted a coaster from
Cherry Land, makers of Silver Rail and Golden Rail Beers.  This
is a small brewery in Door County, Wisconsin which is housed inn
an old passenger/freight station.  Look for goldrail.gif if you
want this file.

As always, if anyone does not have access to that group I will be
happy to E-mail them to you.  I have a new auto-mailer in place
so it should not take so long for me to get back to you.  I can't
FTP from here so if anyone else wants to place these pictures on
a site, that's fine, and please let others know where the site
is.
*****************************************************************
File Name.....XMAS_CRD.GIF
Resolution....800x510x256
Size..........168,334
Description..:
               When I was a small boy back in Janesville,
Wisconsin, I remember going with my dad to a small side street to
watch the daily passenger train come into town from Madison.  I
always loved the crossing signal "with the cherry" in it.  Some
call it a wig-wag and others a banjo.  They are hard to find
today.  I went back to that crossing a few years ago and
remembered the good times we had talking and waiting for the
train.  Although those days are long gone, just for a second the
visions and sounds came back to me, or did they?

               Happy holidays to all on rec.railroads,
rec.models.railroad and all the rest of the railroaders on the net.

Dan
-- 
************************************************************************
  |\\                                   *
  |  \ \                                *   Internet: 
  J    \ \         --------|            *      dawdy@tellabs.com
         \ \     / [] ZORRO|            *   Compu$erve:
           \ \  |  ||      |            *      70661,2422
             \ \|  ||      |            *
               =============            *        "O" Scale
     ____________()______()__________   *       King of Scales
   The painters last day on the job :-) *
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: ehr@ecsvax.uncecs.edu (Ernest H. Robl)
Subject: Re: Amtrak Routes
Summary: yes and no
Organization: UNC Educational Computing Service
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 15:56:29 GMT

In article <BzAzM6.K4y@nocusuhs.nnmc.navy.mil>, organic@mgr.hjf.org (Miriam Organic) writes:
> Is true that AMTRAK is going to start using Superliner cars in the east?
> 
> Does this include the Chicago-D.C. Capatiol Limited?  
> I watch it every day outside my office window. 


What you may be referring to is that when the extension of the
Sunset from New Orleans to Florida is implemented, Superliners
will reach the east coast.  That's because clearances are
adequate for superliners on the entire route.

The problems with clearances are in the D.C. area and on the
Northeast Corridor.  These problems will not magically go away.

-- Ernest

-- 
"My other computers are Nikon N8008s and an SB25." -- Ernest H. Robl
Ernest H. Robl (ehr@ecsvax)  Durham, NC, USA   +1  919   286-3845
                                         FAX:  +1  919   286-1696
This .signature meets plate C specifications (for rec.railroad fans)