From: hardman@throb.mcws.fidonet.org (Bill Hardman)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: Scientology and intelligence
Date: Sun, 08 Nov 92 14:22:28 PST
Reply-To: hardman@throb.mcws.fidonet.org (Bill Hardman)
Distribution: world
Organization: Bark At The Moon Productions

> gisle@ifi.uio.no (Gisle Hannemyr) writes:

>> In article <75LuTB1w165w@throb.mcws.fidonet.org> hardman@throb.mcws.fidonet.o
> 
>> gisle@ifi.uio.no (Gisle Hannemyr) writes:
>>> 1) is a blatant violation of standard scientific procedure -- that a
>>> moderator with a vested interest in the outcome should be allowed full
>>> control of the testing.
>
>> This is a blatant false assertion.  Many "scientific" research
>> organizations conduct testing on their procedures within their own
>> organizations, and do not rely on external testing agencies to
>> review their findings.  Standard scientific procedure varies from
>> lab to lab.
> 
> Please re-read may assertion.  The key phrase is "vested interest".
> _Most_ scientific research organizations aren't businesses who sell
> the results of their research (whether it is programs to increase
> intelligence or a cure for cancer) as products to a non-scientifically
> trained public.

Like Intel, General Dynamics, etc. etc.?


> For the few scientific organizations whose research-results _are_
> markedable products that are sold to the general public (e.g.  those
> developing drugs and experimental medical treatments), standard
> scientific procedure _is_ that external and independent testing is
> carried out before the products are disseminated to the public.

See above.  This occurs in medical treatments and testing of drugs,
although the fact remains that this is a flawed system, and not
always in the best interest of the public.  There has been a history
of independent studies of independent studies that have proved that
the tests conducted were flawed and incomplete. The field of
artificial sweeteners is one example of this.

>> The Church uses a number of different tests.  It is not the same
>> test given over and over.  If this occurs, it is against standard
>> Chruch practices.
> 
> I only commented upon John Holifield's presentation of how the CoS
> had conducted the IQ tests in his particular case.  John's own words
> (which you deleted) was:
> 
>>> Unless you are suggesting that the test moderator changed the answers,
>>> or gave a different test (which I assure you he didn't)
> 
> which clearly imply that the same test was re-used in re-testing.
> 
> I'll be happy to discuss a case where intelligence gain is achived and
> testing is conducted according to "standard church practices" (which
> -- I understand from your posting -- has been violated in John's
> case).  I'll update my FAQ if you can you supply a source describing
> such a case, the results achieved and testing procedures followed.  At
> the moment, the _only_ case we have where we know something about the
> testing procedures is the postings where John reports on his own
> IQ-enhancement experience, and it is therefore the best documented
> case we have for a FAQ on scientology and intelligence -- don't you
> agree?

The source for this is published in Science of Survival.

Bill Hardman

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