HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: schalene@sequent.com (Schalene Dagutis)
Subject: Cockers & Hunting (Re: looking for new dog suggestions)
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc.
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 12:54:16 GMT

Chris Barnes:
>>>And if you dispute that this can happen, just look at how many Cocker
>>>Spaniels there are, and how many got any kind of hunting title last
>>>year.  Not many.
>>
Tim Mason:
>>OK.  I'm disputing.  Cockers are no longer hunting dogs because they fell
>>out of favor as hunting dogs.  Other spaniels (and other dogs) became
>>more popular AS HUNTING DOGS.
> 
Chris Barnes:
>And just why do you think they fell from favor as hunting dogs?  Because
>they (as a breed) became worthless for it.  (chicken vs. the egg).
> 
> 
Chris, I'll have to dispute this.  If you read any books on Cockers or
are involved with the breed in any way, you'll know that breeding
worthless hunting dogs is not why they fell out of favor as hunters
(which is a disputable point in some circles).  The Cocker is a slow
worker, made for flushing in dense underbrush -- the long ears were
developed to protect the eyes, and the feathering on the legs and
underbelly to protect the skin from brambles, etc.  The docked tail,
same thing.  Over the years in England, civilization encroached on the
vast land preserves used for bird hunting.  Its not so much that a
well bred Cocker fell out of favor -- its that its hunting environment
disappeared.  If they hadn't been loved as pets also, there would have
been no use for the breed and it would have disappeared all together.
Dogs that are faster and hunt in more open terrain are still popular.
The same can be said for the Clumber Spaniel.  It fell out of favor
because it was also considered a "slow" worker.  It is the largest
spaniel and was crossed a couple of hundred years ago with hounds.  It
has a very "houndy" face compared to other Spaniels.  This was done to
increase its ability to track.  The Clumber is a "sure finder" of
fallen game.  When the "high society" of England was at is zenith, they
had a dog for every purpose.  A Cocker to flush game into the air, a
Clumber to find the fallen game and a retriever to bring it back.  As
hunting and dog ownership became available to the middle classes, they
couldn't afford to keep dogs with such specialized purposes.  Hence,
new breeds that do more.  Should these "older" breeds disappear?  This
sounds like what you're advocating? 

If you doubt my points on falling out of favor, read the history of
the King Charles Spaniel.  They were the favorite of King Charles II 
and King James.  You know how England is about their royalty (look at 
all the Di haircuts when she was first married); so the King Charles 
Spaniel was very popular in England.  When Mary took the throne, she 
loved pugs.  The King Charles Spaniel fell out of favor.  In an attempt 
to keep the breed alive, many breeders crossed their Spaniels with pugs 
-- that's how we got the English Toy Spaniel.  A Spaniel with a "pug" face.

schalene
From: mmf@evolving.com (Mark Frazier)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: MALAMUTE PUPPY WANTED
Date: 15 Aug 92 19:16:30 GMT
Organization: Evolving Systems, Inc.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

Hello again. Several months ago, I requested information on Siberian Huskies
and Malamutes. Thanks to all who answered with the in depth info. We've decided
on a Malamute. My wifes nesting instinct is kicking in big time (she's 2 months
pregnant) and has decided she wants the dog NOW!

With all the expenses of a baby coming up, I'd rather not plunk out $250 for
a puppy (I still have to build the dog run, a deck, and finish to basement
since my weightlifting equip. has been exiled from the "baby" room!).
I saw an ad in the paper for Siberian puppies for $50. THey were pure bread,
but not registered, which is fine with us. 

Does anyone know where I could get a Malumute puppy w/o papers for a similar price?
Or are Mals rare enough that this is not feasible?

Thanks in advance.

MMF
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: crs@beta.lanl.gov (Charlie Sorsby)
Subject: Re: Hunting ability in Labradors 
Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 14:22:04 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.201001.5991@morrow.stanford.edu> liza@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Liza Miller) writes:
[...]
= 
= 	The posting that I saw made references to the fact that most
= labradors being bred today do not have hunting instincts.  As a Labrador
= fancier and exhibitor and future breeder, I find that statement to be
= eroneous.  I have four Labradors of my own that I work in show, field, and
[...Examples of field Labs deleted for brevity...]
= 	I am sure that with the current status of the Lab as the #1 most
= popular dog in teh country that this will be more and more of an issue.
= However, I am also sure that with the care and concern of responsible
= breeders, the core population of Labradors will retain all the things that
= make them wonderful dogs -- including their NEED to bring you things,
= especially dead birds!

Liza's points are well taken.  My shooting buddy raises chocolate
Labs who are great hunters.  They are used not only as retrievers
but as flushing dogs for upland game as well.

But--you knew there would be a "but" didn't you?--Liza's final
point is, I think, the thing that must be considered in discussing
what is happening to the breed (or any other breed, for that
matter).

I'd like to expand on what Liza said with some views of my own.
First, popularity has been the (at least apparent) ruination of
many a breed.

Popularity doesn't necessarily eliminate the good dogs who retain
the essential instincts and qualities that the breed was developed
for but it will, I believe, make it more difficult to find them.
As less concerned (or unconcerned) breeders produce *many* junk
dogs to satisfy the demand, it becomes more difficult to find the
good dogs that are being produced.  And, as more "breeders" appear
to cater to the breed's popularity, it becomes more and more
difficult to locate those who are breeding the real dogs.  Thus,
the appearance exists that there *are no* real X any more (where,
of course, X is the breed in question).  Whether Labradors have
reached this state is something that I am not qualified to say.

But real problems are produced as well.  As inferior dogs are bred
to satisfy demand, the gene pool is poluted.  The genetics of
complex traits such as hunting ability are complex too.  It becomes
difficult to weed out the results of such a breeding explosion even
by those who bother to try.  As it becomes more and more difficult
to locate good dogs true to the breed, fewer will bother.


-- 
Best,

Charlie "Older than dirt" Sorsby				"I'm the NRA!"
	  crs@lanl.gov
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: shedevil@leland.Stanford.EDU (Anne P. Mitchell, JD)
Subject: Help..Dog is Neurotic About Nails Getting Cut
Reply-To: shedevil@gw.home.vix.com (Anne P. Mitchell, J.D.)
Organization: Fathers Rights & Equality Exchange
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 05:10:13 GMT


Well, all the wonderful advice about cutting Tazi's nails has been for
naught.  I have come to realize that she is truly neurotic about having
her nails cut.  I can't even *touch* her feet.  She struggles hard to
get away..has a look of sheer terror on her face, and acts like I have
never seen her act in any other situation.  If she sees the trimmers,
she snaps at them, and when that doesn't make them go away, she grabs
*me* with her mouth, *hard*.
Now, she has become a very sweet dog, her mouth play is greatly
diminished [and this wasn't mouth play]...she has *never* snapped at me
or anything.  My point is that I am confident this is specifically
related to her nails being worked on.

I hypothesize that she has had a bad experience (or maybe a few or more)
with her nails being done.  Makes sense..they are solid black..an
inexperienced trimmer would likely have cut the quick, causing pain.
So, she probably associates having her nails worked on with pain.

So, my question is...I obviously need to have her nails done.  They are
already overly long [which in turn can cause her pain :-(]... should I
take her to the vet?  a groomer?  What should I be wary of?  I'm
concerned that if I take her to the vet, then she will associate the vet
with what is, apparently, a very unpleasant experience for her.  How do
choose a groomer, if I go that route?

Help!




Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: shan@niwot.scd.ucar.edu (Val Shanahan)
Subject: Re: dog digs holes
Organization: Scientific Computing Divison/NCAR Boulder, CO
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 14:24:01 GMT


	When I had a dog that dug holes, I filled the holes with water.
This prevented the dog from digging again in the same spot.  When I was
able to catch the dog in the act, I filled the hole with water and pushed
the dogs nose in it.  (Not long enough to choke the dog or anything like
that.)  After a couple of times, the dog quit digging.

Val

Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: honig@cs.cornell.edu (Sue Utter Honig)
Subject: Re: writing a nasty letter to breeder
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 16:49:09 GMT

Sorry, I accidentally deleted the original post, which was from
someone who'd bought a Daschund puppy who ended up with what I assume
to be demodectic mange.  The person felt they had been cheated and
wanted to write a nasty letter to the breeder.

I have a Rottie that had demodectic mange.  I was told by my vet that
basically *all* dogs have the mite that causes the mange - they get it
from their mother.  Fortunately most pups never have a problem;
however, some show the mange symptoms of hair loss.  The treatment, as
mentioned by the poster, is a series of dippings (which, by the way, is
easy to do yourself, which might save a vet fee).  After treatment,
the hair sometimes does, sometimes doesn't grow back.  We were lucky
with our dog; all the bald spots disappeared.

I don't believe there's anything that the breeder could have done to
prevent the mange.  Therefore, I don't think a nasty letter is called
for.  I'd be a little disappointed with your vet for not telling you
just how the mange is caused.  I'd also be curious to know if you'd
been given an option to do the dipping yourself.  Having 4 dogs, my
vet and I know each other very well, so maybe that's why he let me do
the dippings myself.

Sue Utter Honig
honig@cs.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: jkjncs@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Subject: Re: help with retriever problem
Reply-To: jkjncs@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 16:44:56 GMT

In article <168488552.X005CB@tamvm1.tamu.edu>, X005CB@tamvm1.tamu.edu 
(Chris Barnes) writes:
>In article <1992Aug18.212606.25134@newshost.lanl.gov>
>  srlee@beta.lanl.gov (Stephen R Lee) writes:
> 
>>>  ...my description of using a shock collar and
>>>     video camera deleted to save space.....
> 
>>Is'nt this just a wee bit on the elaborate side?

I agree
>Perhaps.  But I did see it work....

Not always a good reason...

>Recall that the problem pooch didn't chew on things when she was
>home.  Kinda hard to give a command when you're not there.  For those

Wrong - re-read the post:

In article <3533@eastman.UUCP>
   garrison@kodak.com (Laurie Garrison) writes:
 
>i posted this question before, but i got no replies so i am
>trying again.  i have a three year old golden named Indy.
>this is the problem:  Indy does not destroy anything when
>i am not home.  when i *am* home, Indy seems to spend all of sher
>time looking for things to pick up and eat, like socks, underwear,
>used kleenix, shirts, remote controls, my glasses, etc.  if i don't 
>catch sher, she EATS them.  as in *gone*. she has eaten two pairs 
>of my glasses,

It sounds to me like Indy wants Laurie's attention and is very manipulative
at getting it. A friend of mine had this problem with their Brittany. To
solve the problem, they:
* took the dog to obedience class (Laurie, you're in my area, so feel free
  to e-mail me for info on local training schools); this helped in both
  controlling the dog and in maintaining the pack order (owners giving 
  commands are alpha)
* increased the correction for stealing - a good correction was to take
  the dog by the loose skin on the sides of the neck and lift the front
  of the dog off the ground, shaking her a bit, and scolding in low, 
  growly tones. Then ignore the dog for at least 5 minutes.
* uped the amount of exercise the dog gets; the obedience classes also
  helped increase the amount of attention the dog got.
* tried to be neater about leaving things lying around the house
* tried not to laugh or show any amusement when the dog 
  takes stuff she shouldn't - this is not always easy - my friend's Brittany
  liked to raid the laundry basket and would often fly around with various
  undergarments stuck to her face :+) - but, laughing will only encourage
  them.

To me, being in control of my dog means that I can always remove something
from his mouth; you should ask your obedience instructor to help you with
this and practice it often, since removing things from Indy's mouth will
also help maintain your status as leader.

Good Luck

********************************************************
* jane jackson and murphy b. lab, Am/Can CD, CGC, TDI  *
* jkjncs@ritvax.isc.rit.edu                            *
*                                                      *
* standard disclaimer applies...                       *
********************************************************
From: cdm@pmafire.inel.gov (Dale Cook)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: Request for show info/experiences
Keywords: showing, AKC, Shiba
Date: 19 Aug 92 23:55:14 GMT
Organization: WINCO

In article <2A92BDCD.11353@ics.uci.edu> tittle@ics.uci.edu (Cindy Tittle Moore) writes:
>In <16ud6tINNqh3@agate.berkeley.edu> jwd@briones.ced.berkeley.edu (John Wilbrand Dahlgren) writes:
>
>>I read the FAQ about showing dogs, but I still have a few
>>questions.
>
>>1)   What is a "major"? Apparently you get more points for it.
>>     Is it a major win? or a major show?
>
>A "major" is 3, 4 or 5 points.  The number of points at a particular
>show is dependent on the number of same-sex-same-breed dogs the dog
>competes against.  The number itself is dependent on the popularity of
>the breed.  As an example (the numbers are ball-park, but not way
>off), a female labrador needs to win best of breed or best of opposite
>against at least 95 other female labradors to get a 5-point major.  A

Well, mostly accurate.  A female lab need only take WB, not necessarily BOB
or BOW or BOS, to get the major.  Now if you want to complicate things, IF
that female lab took BOW, then it would get the greater of either the points
for the dogs at that show or the bitches (not combined, mind you).  If that
lab bitch took BOS, then IF there were specials bitches competing, you would
count those specials among the bitches you defeated, possibly giving you
more points.  Finally, if the bitch took BOB, then specials DOGS would also
count in the number of dogs defeated along with special and class bitches.

(WB = Winner's Bitch
 BOB= Best of Breed
 BOS= Best of Opposite Sex
 BOW= Best of Winners)

Also, the points schedule is dependent on the region of the country
you happen to be showing in.  For example, it takes more Border Terriers
to get the same number of points in say California than it does in Nevada,
a different AKC region.

Thoroughly confused now? :-)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
...Dale Cook    "There is no animal so spooky as the True Believer."
                   ---Edward Abbey
The opinions are mine only (i.e., they are NOT my employer's)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs,rec.hunting
From: kathy@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu
Subject: Re: Neutering a male pointing dog???
Organization: University Computing Services, Norman, OK
Date: 14 Aug 92 09:14:37 CDT
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu

Roger Green says...
>	I have a 4-month, male English setter which I will be using
>for hunting. I need a fairly wide-ranging dog, not one that works too
>close.  My vet suggested neutering the dog, and swore that this would
>have no affect on his hunting capability. However he was unable to
>tell me of any local bird dogs that had been neutered. It would be
>nice to cut down on the dog's roaming instinct, but I am nervous about
>being a pioneer in this way.
>	Does anyone have any knowledge or experience in hunting with
>neutered male pointing dogs?  My main concerns would be about the
>basic hunting instinct (or drive) and about stamina and weight gain.

I don't have a male hunting dog but I do have a female German Wirehair
Pointer.  We had Elsa spayed when she was about 1 1/2 years old.  She
is now 3.  She hasn't gained a pound since we had the operation done
and she is still as active as she ever was.  We were really hoping
that it would calm her down so she wouldn't try to hunt in the next
county BUT no such luck.  Spaying her took absolutely nothing away
>from her drive, stamina or hunting instinct!

			  
............................................................................
Kathy Greenwood                | Mom to 
Math Major (believe it or not!)|   Loucha and Landry (Belgian Sheepdogs)
University of Oklahoma         |   Ruger (English Springer Spaniel)
                               |   Elsa (German Wirehair Pointer)
.............................................................................


Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: X005CB@tamvm1.tamu.edu (Chris Barnes)
Subject: Shock Collars
Organization: Texas A&M University
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 15:21:14 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.222420.29506@sserve.cc.adfa.oz.au>
    macaj2@cspyr1.cs.adfa.oz.au (MACKINNELL AMANDA) writes:
 
>Putting shock collars on a dog, especially ones as sweet tempered as
>a Golden is cruel. This retrieving of articles doesnt sound malicious, ust the
>actions of a dog who requires some sort of distraction.
>Lets see what happens if we were to put shock collars on men, and use them every time they scratch their genitalia...!
>
>Amanda MacKinnell
>Puddledog Retrievers
 
 
Spoken like someone who has never seen one used correctly.  I will
grant you, they *can* be used cruelly.  But then, so can your voice.
ANY tool, when used properly, has it's place and is worthy to be
used.  ANY tool, when used improperly, is  dangerous.
 
 
BTW:  very similar devices ARE used occationally on people, and those
people frequently PAY to have them used.  Just go talk to a few of
those stop-smoking clinics.  Why?  Because it associates an unpleasent
feeling with an undesired behavior AND ONLY that behavior (ie. not
onto another person).
 
      ----------------------------------------------
Chris Barnes            |
x005cb@tamvm1.tamu.edu  |  Only 11 more days until the start of
(409) 846-3273 (home)   |           hunting season (in Texas)
(409) 845-8454 (work)   |
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: davids@gardener.lanl.gov (David Simmons)
Subject: Re: David Simmons == net.cop
Originator: davids@feynman.lanl.gov
Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 14:22:23 GMT


A word of warning about this guy Peter K. Boucher:  He is, apparently,
not very stable.  I was flamed, for nothing more than asking him
to NOT cross post to r.p.d, in the most vituperative, insulting
and obscene manner.  When I asked him to desist in his flaming,
he flamed worse.  So yes, I forwarded his email to his network
security controller.  I have no patience for obscene and abusive
people like Peter K. Boucher.  Would I do it again?  You bettcha!
In fact, I already did.  I forwarded his latest series back to his security
controller.  Geez!  Some people have no sense.  Even Mr. McDuff 
learns more quickly than this guy! (I HAD to slip in some sort of
dog reference!;-))

-- 

David G. Simmons	"A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a
davids@lanl.gov		meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and
			add drama to an otherwise dull day."
						-Calvin
If I said it, LANL didn't..."If you weren't such a muttonhead, you might have 
thought of it yourself!" (Calvin, again...)

-- 

David G. Simmons	"A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a
davids@lanl.gov		meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and
			add drama to an otherwise dull day."
From: winders@aux.support.apple.com (Scott Winders)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: Request for show info/experiences
Date: 20 Aug 92 17:29:00 GMT
Followup-To: rec.pets.dogs
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.

In article <2A92BDCD.11353@ics.uci.edu>, tittle@ics.uci.edu (Cindy Tittle
Moore) wrote:
> 
> In <16ud6tINNqh3@agate.berkeley.edu> jwd@briones.ced.berkeley.edu (John Wilbrand Dahlgren) writes:
> 
> >I read the FAQ about showing dogs, but I still have a few
> >questions.
> 
> >1)   What is a "major"? Apparently you get more points for it.
> >     Is it a major win? or a major show?
> 
> A "major" is 3, 4 or 5 points.  The number of points at a particular
> show is dependent on the number of same-sex-same-breed dogs the dog
> competes against.  The number itself is dependent on the popularity of
> the breed.  As an example (the numbers are ball-park, but not way
> off), a female labrador needs to win best of breed or best of opposite
> against at least 95 other female labradors to get a 5-point major.  A
> female bloodhound, on the other hand, need only beat 8 other female
> bloodhounds.  This is due to the greater number of labradors competing
> in show.

Actually, you should say:

   "a female labrador needs to win winners bitch, best of opposite
    sex, or best of breed against at least 95 other female labradors
    to get a 5-point major"

Scott Winders
winders@aux.support.apple.com

"My opinions are my own, not my employer's"
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: mgm@royko.Chicago.COM (Marty Masters)
Subject: S**t eating dog
Keywords: Stinky! |~{(> 
Organization: Chicago Software Works
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 06:52:46 GMT


The Airedale that owns me likes to nibble goose.poop when she finds it,
along with eating and rolling in anything just as foul as she can find.

Any way to break her of it?  I'd hate to have to change my lifestyle
to adopt to hers, but at least I'd be able to tell who my friends are.

|~{(> ,  ;-{)>

...Marty Masters & Mitakola the Airedale Terrorist

Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: X005CB@tamvm1.tamu.edu (Chris Barnes)
Subject: Re: thanks! was Re: help with retriever problem
Organization: Texas A&M University
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 13:48:34 GMT

In article <3555@eastman.UUCP>
   garrison@kodak.com (Laurie Garrison) writes:
 
>i haven't had a chance to try any of them!  the problems *do*
>occur only when i am home,
 
 
My mistake!  The shock collar definately isn't the way to go then.
      ----------------------------------------------
Chris Barnes            |
x005cb@tamvm1.tamu.edu  |  Only 11 more days until the start of
(409) 846-3273 (home)   |           hunting season (in Texas)
(409) 845-8454 (work)   |
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs,co.general
From: maoh@phyast.nhn.uoknor.edu (Maureen O'Halloran)
Subject: Re: Front Range heartworm outbreak
Organization: Engineering Computer Network, University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK, USA
Distribution: co
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 01:26:19 GMT

masson@solbourne.com (Bob Masson) writes:

>What are the symptoms of heartworm?  My 1yr old Aussie seemed to come down
>with something the other day -- listless and real quiet.  She didn't seem to
>hurt in any particular place either.  So, probabilities aside :), can
>somebody fill me in on what to look for?
>thanks
>masson

I don't think there are any other symptoms.  Heartworms are easily
diagnosed by a simple blood test though, and if caught early can be
treated. If neglected the treatment is very risky to the d.
Heartworms are endemic in this area and my dog has a yearly test and
is on heartworm pills all year round (since there are mosquitos a large
fraction of the year).

--- Maureen
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs