HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hwrvo@kato.lahabra.chevron.com (W.R. Volz)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Re: X: User simplicity vs code complexity
Date: 25 Jul 92 10:34:33 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Chevron Oil Field Research Company

Date: 24 Jul 92 15:52:36 GMT
Message-Id: <5411@lhdsy1.lahabra.chevron.com>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x

In article <TPAQUETTE.92Jul23134924@gumby.ita.lgc.com>, tpaquette@ita.lgc.com (Trevor Paquette) writes:
|> 
|>    I was talking to a cohort at work and we got to the subject of X and how
|>  many lines of code it takes to do things in X etc..
|> 
|>    I came up with "X is the perfect example of User simplicity is directly
|>  proportional to code complexity." Do you agree/disagree with this statement
|>  and why?
|> 
|>  To open up a window, create a button, attach a callback to that button
|>  when pushed, released and held, while tracking the mouse, takes up a alot
|>  of lines of code. (Granted that will take alot of lines in any GFX system
|>  but most likely more in X then any other)
|> 
|>    To know X and all the in/outs of it takes about 8 700 page manuals (O'Reilly
|>  & Associate) to learn. Is there ANYONE out there who knows EVERYTHING in
|>  these manuals? X is difficult to learn to program with, basically because
|>  you don't know where to start!! There are many calls that do basically the
|>  same thing (XAllocColor vs XAllocColorCells).
|> 
|>    How big is X going to get? When will it stop getting bigger? Who created
|>  this monster in the first place? Oh well.. back to those manuals..
|> 
I'm not sure about this. Perhaps an direct relation between complexity and
flexibility. The more flexible code is, the more complex it is. X is quite
flexible ==> it also complex. In your example of creating a pushbutton,
you either using Xt or Xm. What would you have to do to same thing with
straight X? Probably a lot more. Consider that Motif has a series of
*Simple creation routines. I wonder why? The flexibility of Motif and Xt
made things more complex. so they simplfied. When writing code, a cohort
of mine errs on the side of simplicity rather than complexity. He's usually
right.

======================
Bill Volz
Chevron Oil Field Research Co.
Exploration Research/Geophysics Division.
P.O. Box 446, La Habra, CA 90633-0446
Phone: (310) 694-9340
From: klute@tommy.informatik.uni-dortmund.de (Rainer Klute)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Re: X Font problem in x3270
Date: 27 Jul 92 10:51:30 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Dortmund University, Germany

Date: 27 Jul 1992 07:44:45 GMT
Message-Id: <1509hdINNfj4@fbi-news.Informatik.Uni-Dortmund.DE>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x

In article <generous.712068390@nova>, generous@sti.nasa.gov (Curtis
Generous) writes:
|> I am getting the error: 'Warning: Cannot convert string "3270" to type
|> FontStruct' when
|> running x3270.  No characters appear on the window.  The procedure used
|> to install the
|> 3270 font was (taken from the Makefile):
|> 
|> 	    bdftosnf -t 3270.bdf >3270.snf
|> 	    for i in 3270.snf; do\
|> 		    (set -x; install -c  $i /usr/lib/X11/fonts/misc);;\
|> 	    done
|> 	    mkfontdir /usr/lib/X11/fonts/misc
|> 
|> The fonts.dir file was properly updated, and all permissions look okay. 
|> Any ideas?

After you have installed the 3270 font in /usr/lib/X11/fonts/misc the X
server does not know about it until you tell it to reread its font
directories: xset fp rehash.

-- 
  Dipl.-Inform. Rainer Klute      klute@irb.informatik.uni-dortmund.de
  Univ. Dortmund, IRB
  Postfach 500500         |)|/    Tel.: +49 231 755-4663
D-W4600 Dortmund 50       |\|\    Fax : +49 231 755-2386
From: tools@berkeley.lcs.mit.edu (Tools Directory)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Re: Looking for Shared-X utilities
Date: 21 Jul 92 12:35:09 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Fujitsu

Date: 20 Jul 92 23:34:18 GMT
Message-Id: <Brpo56.KuD@news.fai.com>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x,comp.multimedia

You should look at XTrap on the X.V11R5 contrib tape.  You have to install
this extension in your X system and then re-link your application to
the new X.  Then run:

      xtrapout -e -f foo

to begin recording X Window activity (including cursor motion).
When you are through recording, stop the above program and then
do:
     xtrapin -f foo

and you will see the playback.

I hope this helps.

-charles

--
NAME Charles Brauer
EMAIL uunet!fai.com!charlesb
SNAIL Fujitsu, 3099 North 1st Street, San Jose, California 95134
PHONE (408) 456-7852
From: Peter_Imants_Buttuls@mts.ucs.ualberta.ca
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: No title in original
Date: 28 Jul 92 18:03:30 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Workstation Div., Supermicro Systems Group, Sony Corporation

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 09:20:40 MDT
Message-Id: <3162803@mts.ucs.ualberta.ca>

I'm supposed to be evaluating a program to be installed that "uses 
Openwindows". It will be running on a Sparcstation to which I have access
from my workstation running X. The only reason that I can see that I may
not be able to run the program from my workstation is if the program puts
out DISPLAY POSTSCRIPT. Is there any other reason? Is there any way around
potential problems I might encounter, like sticking in a black box that 
converts commands my X-server might not understand to ones it does. My
machine is an SGI Personal Iris running Release 3.3 of IRIX. THANKS.
.
 
Peter Buttuls, University of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada
e-mail:(userpib@mts.ucs.ualberta.ca
From: sriram@alka.tcs.com (Sriram Srinivasah)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Re: X: User simplicity vs code complexity
Date: 24 Jul 92 15:03:41 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Teknekron Communications, Inc

Date: 23 Jul 92 23:15:53 GMT
Message-Id: <1992Jul23.231553.3050@tcsi.com>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x

In article <TPAQUETTE.92Jul23134924@gumby.ita.lgc.com>, tpaquette@ita.lgc.com (Trevor Paquette) writes:
> 
>    I was talking to a cohort at work and we got to the subject of X and how
>  many lines of code it takes to do things in X etc..
> 
>    I came up with "X is the perfect example of User simplicity is directly
>  proportional to code complexity." Do you agree/disagree with this statement
>  and why?
> 
>  To open up a window, create a button, attach a callback to that button
>  when pushed, released and held, while tracking the mouse, takes up a alot
>  of lines of code. (Granted that will take alot of lines in any GFX system
>  but most likely more in X then any other)
> 
>    To know X and all the in/outs of it takes about 8 700 page manuals (O'Reilly
>  & Associate) to learn. Is there ANYONE out there who knows EVERYTHING in
>  these manuals? X is difficult to learn to program with, basically because
>  you don't know where to start!! There are many calls that do basically the
>  same thing (XAllocColor vs XAllocColorCells).
> 
>    How big is X going to get? When will it stop getting bigger? Who created
>  this monster in the first place? Oh well.. back to those manuals..
> 
> --
> Name : Trevor Paquette       | Landmark/ITA             |   _\___ Fahrvergnugen
> Email: tpaquette@ita.lgc.com | Calgary, Alberta, Canada |  /     \____         
> Visitor from CyberSpace      | (403) 269-4669           | / G60       \        
> Renegade of Virtual Reality  | #include <disclaimer.h>  | \-O------O--/        

That is the reason you have widget sets, interface builders, tools like tcl/Wish,
Wcl etc. You don't *have* to start building stuff from scratch (using Xlib, that
is). I don't know the entire API of X - I develop Motif based stuff, and it is
not a frequent occurence that one goes out to Xlib. When I need to do so, I have
found that I have developed a fairly good sense for what to look.

There may be 8 700 page manuals of O'Reilly, but you don't have to read and know
all of it before you start developing. Read Douglas Young's book, for example,
and you probably don't need to know Xlib exists. Use Motif/Uil, and bring up
reasonable applications in 2 weeks.

Sriram
(sriram@tcs.com
From: tomasc@lionfish.tds.kth.se (Tomas Carlsson)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Re: compile error
Date: 21 Jul 92 18:20:58 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden

Date: 21 Jul 92 10:56:10 GMT
Message-Id: <1992Jul21.105610.8785@kth.se>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x

In article <1992Jul20.121551.22457@kth.se>, tomasc@lionfish.tds.kth.se (Tomas Carlsson) writes:
|> I'm trying to compile a program I've written. I've stolen and
|> modified a Makefile but I'm not able to understand this error:
|> 
|>    ld: Undefined symbol 
|>       _error 
|>       _pow
|>       _floor
|>       _get_wmShellWidgetClass
|>       _get_applicationShellWidgetClass
|>       __XtInherit
|>       _XtToolkitInitialize
|>    *** Error code 2
|> 
     (deleted som stuff here)
|>
|> In my makefile I use (among others) these flags: (yes, I've
|> used devguide)
|> 
|>    -lguidexv -lguide -lxview -lolgx -lXmu -lXt -lXext -lX11
|> 
|> I'm using openwindows 3.0, X11R5 on a sun4.
             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

That seems to be the problem (OW 3.0). I tried to compile under
OW 2.0 - no problem!

Does this finding ring any bells? If you have a suggestion
please give it to me (I've run out).

Thanks to those who emailed me. Unfortunately nothing has worked.


Answers here, the above address or to tomasc@sics.se

Tomas Carlsson
From: sinan@mtesol.boeing.com (Sinan Karasu)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Re: What is Devguide?
Date: 28 Jul 92 04:15:27 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Workstation Div., Supermicro Systems Group, Sony Corporation

Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 17:35:08 PDT
Message-Id: <9207280035.AA03211@mtesol>


In article <5392@dsacg3.dsac.dla.mil> nfs1675@dsacg3.dsac.dla.mil (Michael S Figg) writes:
>
>Can anybody tell me what devguide is? I have seen it in reference to X but
>don't know if it is directly related. (Wouldn't it be Xdevguide if it was?).
>
>Thanks, Mike

DevGuide is a GUI builder tool that runs on Sun SparcStations and generate 
XView code.We use it around here for developing virtual instruments
(such as oscilloscopes etc....). It is wonderful......
Once you have designed your interface ( buttons,sliders,canvasses gauges,
pop ups etc... all in anywhere from 5 minutes to a couple of hours), you
can run one of many programs that will give you a c,c++,Ada code in xview
or c code in olit...
Ask your Sun SE........
Sinan
From: sinan@mtesol.boeing.com (Sinan Karasu)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Memory leaks
Date: 29 Jul 92 18:48:33 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Workstation Div., Supermicro Systems Group, Sony Corporation

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 10:38:24 PDT
Message-Id: <9207291738.AA05158@mtesol>

 When is a memory leak a memory leak. If I do many malloc's with
no dalloc's , does the memory remain leaked when the program exits?
Is the answer different in different OSs such as Sun,SCO etc... ?
Sinan
From: bcutter@pdnis.paradyne.com (Brooks Cutter)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Looking for info on KNOWN bugs in Xview 3.0
Date: 28 Jul 92 23:42:13 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Information Systems: AT&T Paradyne, Largo Florida

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 16:47:14 GMT
Message-Id: <1992Jul28.164714.4988@pdnis.paradyne.com>
Newsgroups: alt.toolkits.xview,comp.windows.open-look,comp.windows.x

Recently I was examining the "buglist.xview" file in 
/usr/openwin/share under Open Windows 3.0.  I was surprised to
see how many bugs there were in the XView toolkit, and as
a result, bugs in xview client applications.

From reading the file (370k), I noticed that many of the reported/
known bugs were in older versions of Xview.  However, nowhere
in the bug report did it say what version the bug relates to...

So my question (already)...

Where can I find a recent (and hopefully continually updated)
list of currently known bugs in Xview 3.0?

I'd like to locate this file both so I am aware of known bugs,
as well as avoiding reporting bugs that are already known.
(Incidently, several entries in the xview buglist were repeated with
different phrasing)

...And if anyone from Sun is reading this message, may I recommend...

In the buglist include the following information for each Bug Id...

Version Reported:
(The version of the product the user is using, ie: Xview 2.0, etc)
Versions Affected:
(If It's a known bug since 1.0 and it's still in 2.0 it should be
"1.0, 2.0" ; otherwise "Unknown")

...This would help enormously in determining which ones I care about. 
(ie: which will affect me / my programs)

Any Finally...

Before offering this info for general consumption (and especially
if you're going to release it like in OW3) have someone go through
the list and attempt to consolidate the list of bugs.  Don't remove
them, just group similar bugs together.

...At least 3 times I read bug reports indicating that cmdtool
will continue to fill up /tmp because scrolling has no limits.

Thanks...

-- 
                  =-=-=
Brooks Cutter    (I: bcutter@pdnis.paradyne.com)
                 (U: ...uunet!pdn!pdnis!bcutter)
Unix System Administrator, Information Services
From: mouse@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu (der Mouse)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Re: X: User simplicity vs code complexity
Date: 30 Jul 92 09:22:06 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: McGill Research Centre for Intelligent Machines

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 00:39:05 GMT
Message-Id: <1992Jul30.003905.7175@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x

In article <1992Jul24.145008.1028@ERA.COM>, feit@ERA.COM (Mark Feit) writes:
> On comp.windows.x, tpaquette@ita.lgc.com (Trevor Paquette) posts:
>> Is there ANYONE out there who knows EVERYTHING in these manuals?
> Aside from the people who wrote them, I'll second the vote for der
> Mouse, but I suspect that like the rest of us, if he doesn't remember
> something he looks it up.

*blush*  Thank you.  Yes...cut me off from my Xlib.doc and Protocol.doc
files and my usefulness as an X question-answering service takes a
sharp nosedive.  (Those files are simply the Consortium-supplied
documents from the mit/doc directory on the R4 distribution.  Someday I
will find the time to process the R5 versions into plain text so I can
use them instead...unless perhaps R6 comes along first.)

					der Mouse

			    mouse@larry.mcrcim.mcgill.edu
From: lectra@greco-prog.fr (Lectra Systeme)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Tektro XP13/18 and tvtwm/vtwm
Date: 30 Jul 92 08:10:18 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: GRECO Programmation du CNRS - Bordeaux,France

Date: 29 Jul 92 07:33:15 GMT
Message-Id: <1992Jul29.073315.19353@greco-prog.fr>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x


			Hi everybody,


	I have some problems with Tektro XP18/XP13 X terminals.

	After some hours using a virtual window manager (tvtwm/vtwm) i can't
open any window anymore. Here is an "xscope" session :

xlogo -display devunix:1
 0.00: Client -->   12 bytes
                  byte-order: MSB first
               major-version: 000b
               minor-version: 0000
              length of name: 0000
              length of data: 0000

		And that's all !!!

Instead of :

$ xlogo -display devunix:1
 0.00: Client -->   12 bytes
                  byte-order: MSB first
               major-version: 000b
               minor-version: 0000
              length of name: 0000
              length of data: 0000
 1.00:                                   272 bytes <-- X11 Server
                                        protocol-major-version: 000b
                                        protocol-minor-version: 0000
                                              length of data: 0042
                                              release-number: 00000000
                                            resource-id-base: 03c00000
                                            resource-id-mask: 003fffff
                                          motion-buffer-size: 00000000
                                            length of vendor: 000f

		etc...

	
	I use X11R4pl18 with System V 3.2


	Any idea ?

	Please reply by e-mail at :

		pierre@lectra.fr
	
 _____________________________________________________________________________
| Pierre FICHEUX                     | Certains hommes n'ont que ce qu'ils    |
| Lectra Systemes                    | meritent, les autres sont celibataires |
| ZI Marticot  33610 CESTAS          |                                        |
| FRANCE                             |                   Sacha Guitry         |
|------------------------------------|----------------------------------------'
|tel   : (33) 56 68 80 00            |
|fax   : (33) 56 78 88 31            |
|E-mail: lectra@geocub.greco-prog.fr |
|	 pierre@lectra.fr            |
|____________________________________|
-- 
	
 _____________________________________________________________________________
| Pierre FICHEUX                     | Certains hommes n'ont que ce qu'ils    |
| Lectra Systemes                    | meritent, les autres sont celibataires |
From: mshah@ece.arizona.edu (Munil A. Shah)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: X11R5 installation problem..
Date: 25 Jul 92 15:39:36 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: University of Arizona Dept. of Electrical and Computer Engineering

Date: 24 Jul 92 21:00:44 GMT
Message-Id: <1992Jul24.140044@ece.arizona.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x


	I have compiled and installed X11R5 here.  While testing, when I 
start x windows by xinit I can not load certain fonts. In my .Xresources
I have specified courR14,courR12 etc. fonts. But  during xinit it can load
these specified fonts, so uses the default fonts. 
	Can someone help me?

Munil
From: bill@chaos.cs.umn.edu (Hari Seldon)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Re: WCL on IBM RS6000
Date: 28 Jul 92 06:12:25 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: University of Minnesota

Date: 28 Jul 92 00:59:39 GMT
Message-Id: <bill.712285179@chaos.cs.umn.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x

In <474@vercors.frec.bull.fr> kriss@frec.bull.fr (C.Mollard@frec.bull.fr) writes:


>I like to know if somebody has successfully ported Wcl 1.4 (or later) on an IBM RS6000
>(AIX 3.2 with AIX Window) or if somebody have a way to do it right.
tried to mail, but it bounced.
please send a dotted address and i'll try to hook you up with the user here
who did it.

bill pociengel
--
bill@chaos.cs.umn.edu
From: kaleb@thyme.jpl.nasa.gov
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Re: 3d Athena problems (was Re: Need 3d
Date: 23 Jul 92 13:01:59 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Workstation Div., Supermicro Systems Group, Sony Corporation

Date: 18 Jul 92 04:45:00 GMT
Message-Id: <1992Jul17.184529.20266@thyme.jpl>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x


In article <1992Jul17.134010.27312@csi.uottawa.ca> dominic@shamin.genie.uottawa.ca writes:
>
>...but any Khoros applications that I like with this die with:
>
>X Error of failed request:  BadFont (invalid Font parameter)
>  Major opcode of failed request:  55 (X_CreateGC)
>  Minor opcode of failed request:  0
>  Resource id in failed request:  0x2400016
>  Serial number of failed request:  42
>  Current serial number in output stream:  44
>Major X error encountered for display 'scooter:2.0'! Unable to recover.
>
>Any ideas?
>

The first question that comes to mind is: What is the Khoros app doing
wrong that *every* app in the MIT sample implementation does right? :-)

The second question that comes to mind is: You don't expect me to answer
your question with the scant information you've provided, do you?  Not to
mention the fact that you've posted to the net, and not emailed me.
While I currently make every effort to stay on top of c.w.x, I may not
always be able to do so, and it's a mistake to assume that I will.

But seriously -- why not run the app with "-synchronous" in whatever
passes for a debugger in SCO and determine whether it's the app, or the 
widget set that's generating the error, and then let either the app writer, 
or *me* know what you found?

(Need I point out that you'll need to compile both the app and the widget
set with debugging turned on!)

Remember folks.  I'm not the X Consortium.  I don't have one of everything 
worth having to try Xaw3d on (well, I'm sure even the X Consortium doesn't 
have one of *everything*, either.)  And I'm doing this is my "spare" time, 
so I can't try every app that was ever written for Xaw either.  I test with 
the supported clients in the R5 Sample implementation; and that's it.  If 
they work, I have to presume that other correctly written applications will 
too.  

Furthermore, I have a Sun, (and soon I hope to have BSD386-0.1) and that's 
it.  If you want Xaw3d to keep getting better, then you'll have to provide 
more useful information, and *preferably* the fixes, for the things that 
you do find wrong.

Thank you for your support.

-- 

Kaleb Keithley                          kaleb@thyme.jpl.nasa.gov

Not authorized, in any way, shape, or form, to speak for anyone.
From: misha@humus.cs.huji.ac.il (Michael Pak)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Two NCD terminal questions.
Date: 25 Jul 92 07:11:05 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Hebrew University of Jerusalem, Israel

Date: 18 Jul 92 12:06:19 GMT
Message-Id: <1992Jul18.120619.16428@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x

Hi.

  Does anybody out there knows when do NCD plan to ship X11R5? We are using
a LOT on NCD terminal in our CS department, and would like very much to upgrade
them to R5 (we'd like to run PEX and the font server particularly...)
 

  The second question is: Is there any way to start the NCD lock utility from
a client? We would like to have a program similiar in "xlock", that on the one
hand, would lock the terminal such that only the super-user of the machine on
which "xlock" was run, or the activator of the "xlock" process would be able
to unlock it, and on the other hand, would take advantage of NCD's lock feature,
which is clearly the RIGHT THING, since it does not take up the client's host
CPU time. 

Thanks a lot,
Misha.

******************************************
* Michael Pak                            *
* The System Group,                      *
* Department of Computer Science,        *
* Hebrew University of Jerusalem, Israel *
* E-Mail: misha@cs.huji.ac.il            *
******************************************