HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: brooke@cco.caltech.edu (Brooke Paul Anderson)
Subject: Re: Problems with ZOOM 14400 faxmodem
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 13:04:20 GMT

I tried delaying the start of TE/2 during boot up, and now the ZOOM
modem seems to work fine right after startup.  The problem (if it
is gone and not just intermittant) must have been due to something
getting lost in the 57600 bps connection between the modem and the
computer during boot up.
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
From: kbass@gmuvax2.gmu.edu (Ken Bass)
Subject: Re: ZyXEL Caller ID?
Organization: George Mason University, Fairfax, Va.
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 20:26:43 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.140350.1154@ariel.ec.usf.edu> kauppila@sunburn.ec.usf.edu. (Jim Kauppila (IE)) writes:
>Has anyone had any success in getting the ZyXEL Caller ID working?
>
>I have had no success at all getting it working here in Florida with
>GTE phone service.  I do have a caller ID box sitting next to the modem
>that picks up and identifies every incoming call so far.
>
>
>
>
>--
>Jim Kauppila                |  E-Mail: Internet: kauppila@sunburn.ec.usf.edu
>College of Engineering      |             GEnie: j.kauppila
>University of South Florida | Heartland Freenet: jkauppil

I have been unsucessful also.

-- 
Ken Bass (kbass@gmuvax2.gmu.edu)              |   Telecommunications  
George Mason University                       |   Techniques Corp, 
Student, Department of Electrical Engineering |   Software Engineer 
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
From: hope@huracan.cr (Theodore Hope)
Subject: fax/voice - FaxFacts 
Organization: Proyecto Huracan - Fundacion Nahual / San Jose, Costa Rica
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 11:02:26 CAM

If there was a discussion about this already, I didn't see it....

Can anyone inform us about Fax/Voice cards (for DOS or Unix) which allow
"FaxFacts"-type services?  I'm referring to the kind of thing you get
when you call a mail-order software house and get a recording of "specify
via your touch-tone phone the code of the product you want, then put your
fax in receive mode".

I saw an advertisement for the Brooktrout TR114 "Fax/Voice Universal
Ports" card in UnixWorld, but the ad's not too specific about what one
can do.

Any help will be appreciated.

 -Theodore Hope
  Proyecto Huracan - Fundacion Nahual
  San Jose, COSTA RICA
From: kevin.fong@uttsbbs.uucp (Kevin Fong) 
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
Subject: RE: GOOD CHEAP V.32BIS?
Date: 25 Jul 92 00:15:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Transfer Station BBS, Danville, CA - 510-837-4610/837-5591
Reply-To: kevin.fong@uttsbbs.uucp (Kevin Fong) 

jtt@tct.com (John Tombs) writes:

-> I just turned in my Practical Peripherals, which didn't work
-> reliably, for a Zoom, which does (at least it did the first evening).
-> Plus, the manual's thicker.

John,

I was having some very serious problems with my PPI 14.4fxsa also.  I
"fought" with PPI and they agreed to release to me their beta eprom,
which has solved the error correcting problem that everyone's been
complaining about.  Just for your info.

Kevin.
From: floyd@hayes.ims.alaska.edu (Floyd Davidson)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
Subject: Re: Gateway Telepath Modem
Date: 25 Jul 92 05:40:56 GMT
Organization: University of Alaska Institute of Marine Science

In article <2A703892.8809@tct.com> jtt@tct.com (John Tombs) writes:
>In article <1992Jul23.055446.24750@ssc.wa.com> tad@ssc.wa.com (Tad Cook) writes:
>>
>>What is NEUTRAL?  Phone lines have a Tip lead and a Ring lead.  Ring is
>>negative with respect to Tip.  The line has 48 vdc on it when idle.
>>
>>What is this "voltage across neutral" that "the vast majority of home
>>lines" have?
>>
>
>I think he means common mode: a voltage (DC or AC) with respect to local
>ground which is _common_ to Tip and Ring.
>
>I measured a 60Hz 10V peak-to-peak common mode voltage across my phone
>lines the other day while trying to troubleshoot a modem - much larger
>than the audio signal.

The reason telephone lines use twisted pair in a balanced configuration
is to make common-mode voltage insignificant to the telephone circuit
operation.

It also happens to be fairly difficult to measure 60 Hz common
mode voltage on a balanced pair without inducing 60 Hz common mode
current!  Here is one way to do it.


                  T ------) (----+
                          ) (    |
                    A -+--) (    |
                       |    (   ---
        1 to 4mfd     ---   (   | |   600 ohm
        300 wvdc      ---   (   | |   carbon
        non-polar.     |    (   | |   resistor
                    B -+--) (   ---
                          ) (    |
                  R ------) (----+
                           \
                            balanced transformer with a split primary

Measure voltage at points A and/or B when points T and R are
connected to the telephone line.

Floyd
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
From: wtm@uhura.neoucom.edu (Bill Mayhew)
Subject: Re: NDIS SLIP Driver
Organization: Northeastern Ohio Universities College of Medicine
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 02:17:27 GMT

I don't run pathworks, but I do run sl/ip between my office and a
xyplex terminal server. (I am in a part of the building that is too
far removed to run co-ax.  Now, that's remote!)  I use a product
from a company named Netmanage.  Their product includes SMTP mail,
telnet, ftp, tftp, ping, SNMP responder, etc. for windows 3.1.

My link is a 19200 buad serial port via a multiplexor, but could
probably just as easily be a pair of v.32 modems.  I find the
solution quite handy until such time as a real network inhabits my
part of the building.

Netmanage Chameleon is based on an NDIS driver from Microsoft LAN
manager.  The product is also available in configurations with IPX
or NFS support.  The program can also provide basic routing
functions between two ethernet cards or card and sl/ip serial port.
Developer tools are available.

For info, I suggest you contact Netmanage:

Netmanage
20823 Stevens Creek Blvd Suite 100
Cupertino, CA  95014  USA
Tel (408) 973-7171  Fax (408) 257-6405


This product happens to work for me, but your results may vary.



-- 
Bill Mayhew      NEOUCOM Computer Services Department
Rootstown, OH  44272-9995  USA    phone: 216-325-2511
wtm@uhura.neoucom.edu   (140.220.1.1)
Xref: sparky comp.dcom.modems:11379 comp.unix.misc:3041 comp.unix.shell:3179
From: trice@bnr.ca (Tony Rice P885)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems,comp.unix.misc,comp.unix.shell
Subject: passing stuff to an open telnet session
Keywords: telnet, unix, question, problem, modem
Date: 29 Jul 92 14:17:26 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, BNR-RTP


I am trying to automate something using telnet and am having troubles.

I would like to telnet to a modem hanging off of our LAN, dial a number
and hang up.  The problem is once I connect, using TELNET, to this modem
telnet goes into an interactive mode which makes things like:

cat "atdt 9,555121" | telnet <modem address>
or
telnet <modem address> < echo "atdt 9,5551212"

not work at all.  Even putting the connection command (open <modem address>)
a file with the atdt command and redirecting or piping that does not work.

Any ideas on how to pass stuff to an open telnet session?

/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|Tony Rice                              | Disclaimer: Opinions are my own  | 
|System Development Environment Support |             not that of BNR or   |
|BNR, Research Triangle Park            |             Northern Telecom     |
|                                 ______|______                            |
|internet: trice@bnr.ca           |"Go Hokies"|                            |
\--------------------------------------------------------------------------/
From: alan@acpub.duke.edu (Alan M. Gallatin)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
Subject: Re: Question about BOCA 14.4k
Date: 28 Jul 92 19:35:16 GMT
Organization: Duke University; Durham, N.C.

Based on the collective experiences of three friends who own the Boca v.32bis
modems, I'll try to correct the answers The Unknown <nazim@cwis.unomaha.edu>
received from Boca as reported in article <nazim.712341629@cwis>:

>        Yes, the Boca can distinguis between fax/data/voice...

Er, uh, not really...  None of my panel has been able to get it to
distinguish fax carrier from data.  Once it answers with one, it seems to
be stubborn and not switch to the other.

>        Yes, the Boca can operate in pulse and tone mode....

Sure... atdt vs. atdp should do the trick...

>        No, the Boca doesn't have a UART 16550 but it has a equivalent
>        Chip from Boca-Technologies on board...

True, it doesn't have a 16550 on board; however, the replacement chip did
not permit it to get maximum throughput in a multitask environment as did
a Zoom internal (with the built-in 16550).  The Boca chip, however,
out performed an external v.32bis connected to a 16450.  Advice in this
area:  either get an internal with a real 16550 or get an external and
connect it to a 16550 port.

>What should I be aware of, if I buy this Faxmodem?, any suggestions for
>a cheap place to order(buy)?.

Best price I've ever seen is J&R Computer World (in New York) - they do
mail order as well.  Internal goes for $229, external for about $260 or
$270 if memory serves.  (I'm sure of that internal price).

From the scouting reports I've received, I chose not to buy the Boca since,
despite some known problems, the Zoom seems a bit more reliable (and has
the 16550) and is available for as little as $260, also from J&R.

Good luck.
-- 
 Alan M. Gallatin <alan@acpub.duke.edu>     |  The opinions contained in this
 Duke University School of Law; Durham, NC  |  post are statements of fact.
Xref: sparky comp.dcom.modems:11253 comp.unix.amiga:1939 comp.unix.questions:9453
From: barrett@decsws.enet.dec.com (Keith Barrett)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems,comp.unix.amiga,comp.unix.questions
Subject: FAX support under UNIX
Date: 27 Jul 92 18:14:15 GMT
Reply-To: barrett@pamsrc.enet.dec.com
Organization: Digital Equipment Corp.



	I just picked up a V.32/.42bus/FAX modem and would like to know
if there is any software for UNIX that will allow me to use the FAX
functionality? How about automatic FAX detection?

	The best this would be to have a program that is run in place of
/bin/login in the port monitor, which if a FAX was detected would receive
the FAX, else exec /bin/login *and then allow interactive login, or UUCICO)

	Anyone have such beasts? 

BTW -- I have SVR4

--

Keith Barrett

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Statements expressed are solely mine   | Internet:   barrett@pamsrc.enet.dec.com
and do not represent any employer.     | UUCP:    ...!decwrl!pamsrc.enet!barrett
  // "My life is my own!" -The Prisoner| DDN: barrett%pamsrc.enet@decwrl.dec.com
\X/  Amiga 3000UXD: The Next Generation| Digital Equipment Corp./DECmessageQ
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: tnixon@hayes.com
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
Subject: Re: HELP with V22bis Modem.
Date: 30 Jul 92 20:15:14 GMT
Organization: Hayes Microcomputer Products, Norcross, GA

In article <H.BYY24SUuS3A@mips.ruessel.sub.org>,
naddy@mips.ruessel.sub.org (Christian Weisgerber) writes:
 
>> V.22bis operates at 2400, with fallback to 1200.
>
>
> I've heard this fallback being mentioned before. Is there any modem that
> does actually implement it? How commonly is it implemented?
 
To the best of my knowledge, EVERY V.22bis modem implements fallback
to 1200bps operation (V.22 or Bell 212, or both) at the beginning of
a call or upon a retrain. Note that I'm NOT talking about rate
renegotiation ala V.32bis.  Also note that I'm not aware of any
v.22bis modems that will automatically initiate a retrain based on
line conditions, although many have a command for that purpose.
 
> Also, I think it would be kind of hard for a direct mode modem to switch
> speeds in the mid of a connection. (Not for the modem itself, rather for
> the DTE connected to it.)
 
Again, I'm not talking about falling back during a call, but during
the initial handshake for backward compatibility. This has been the
traditional meaning of the word "fallback", although it now seems to
be more associated with automatic rate changes during a call in
response to line conditions.
 
--
Toby Nixon, Principal Engineer      | Voice   +1-404-840-9200  Telex 401243420
Hayes Microcomputer Products, Inc.  | Fax     +1-404-447-0178  CIS   70271,404
P.O. Box 105203                     | BBS     +1-404-446-6336  AT&T    !tnixon
Atlanta, Georgia  30348             | UUCP uunet!hayes!tnixon  Fido   1:114/15
USA                                 | Internet                tnixon@hayes.com
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
From: nazim@cwis.unomaha.edu (The Unknown)
Subject: Question about BOCA 14.4k
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 16:40:29 GMT


Hi folks,
sorry to bother, I have some questions about the BOCA 14.4k hope some of you
out there will tell me something about it.
I called Boca today and asked them some questions,here the answers:

        Yes, the Boca can distinguis between fax/data/voice...
        Yes, the Boca can operate in pulse and tone mode....
        No, the Boca doesn't have a UART 16550 but it has a equivalent
        Chip from Boca-Technologies on board...
        ...
        ....
        
Is that right?, could anyone please give me some advice, information via 
e-mail.
What should I be aware of, if I buy this Faxmodem?, any suggestions for
a cheap place to order(buy)?.

Thanks in advance...

Regards, Nazim.
Xref: sparky comp.dcom.modems:11403 can.uucp:187
From: woods@eci386.uucp (Greg A. Woods)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems,can.uucp
Subject: Re: UUCP 'g' vs. MNP & V.42
Date: 29 Jul 92 21:10:44 GMT
Organization: Elegant Communications Inc.

In article <1992Jul26.161854.11452@colnet.cmhnet.org> res@colnet.cmhnet.org (Rob Stampfli) writes:
> Perhaps, but it can be made to work fine.  I originally experienced
> problems with throughput on uucp-g with MNP enabled.  I saw 500-600 cps
> throughput as opposed to 700 cps on a straight connection.  Experimenting
> revealed that the bottleneck was the uucp window size of 3.  Increasing
> this to 7 resulted in a throughput increase to ~850 cps, independent of
> whether a straight, MNP or v.42 connection was made.  Note that the numbers
> mentioned above are for v.32 (not bis), and for precompressed news batches.

Indeed these are close to (although slightly better than) the
measurements I've been able to make.

Unfortunately the maximum negotiable window size of many uucico's
cannot be easily configured.  Although binary can be patched, if you
know how, you will still have to ensure that your neighbor is also
allowing 7-packet windows, and that this is indeed the window size
that's being negotiated (although the througput stats should make the
latter obvious).

> I now turn off reliable mode when originating a uucp connect, but allow
> whatever the other end wants to establish when accepting one, and it
> doesn't seem to make any difference. 

Indeed this is what I do, and what I've recommend others do too.  The
latter allows dial-up users to benefit from reliable connections, etc.
and the former avoids problems if a small packet-window size is used.
-- 
						Greg A. Woods
woods@Elegant.COM, woods@robohack.UUCP  VE3TCP	ECI & UniForum Canada
+1-416-443-1734 [h]  +1-416-595-5425 [w]	Toronto, Ontario; CANADA
Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible-ORWELL
From: clemon@lemsys.UUCP (Craig Lemon VE3XCL)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
Subject: Re: Good mail order places for Supra?
Date: 26 Jul 92 12:34:33 GMT
Organization: Private UUCP "Twig" Node

In article <1992Jul23.164456.12483@phillip.edu.au> t9114145@phillip.edu.au writes:
>Hi all. I am about to buy a V32bis modem, and want to know places I can
>order it from (Mail order from U.S.A is FAR FAR cheaper, even adding on duty).
> 
>If you can personally recommend a mail order place, please mail me with
>a phone number and anything else that you might think is important. Maybe
>the place is really excellent, maybe you think it's just average. 

        Same here, if anyone could recommend any good mail order houses. 
I'm located in Canada, however, not Australia.  I'm looking for a ZyXEL
U-1496 (probably the S model with the LCD display).  The best I've found is
$635CAN including 7% federal tax.  If you know of a good deal in the US or
Canada, please let me know.

> 
>Specifically I'm after a Supra Fax V32bis modem. If you bought one from
>a mail order house and got a real good price, I'm most interested in hearing
>from you. I am only after the modem, not bundled software.
> 
>Please remember that 1-800 numbers don't work when you're dialling from
>Australia.
>
>-- 
>
>
>Adam Eberbach      t9114145@phillip.edu.au          fnord
>Computer Science student, Phillip Institute of Technology.

--
 Craig Lemon VE3XCL - Kitchener, Ontario. Amiga B2000  OS 2.04  UUCPv1.15D.
 +1 519 741 0297    +1 519 578 7817              | 1A Electrical Engineering
 clemon@lemsys.UUCP clemon%lemsys@xenitec.on.ca  | University of Waterloo
 IP/Packet: ve3xcl@ve3xcl.ampr.org [44.135.84.51]|        Fall 1992
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
From: fmueller@telebit.com (Fritz Mueller)
Subject: QBlazer $299
Keywords: Telebit
Organization: Telebit Corporation; Sunnyvale, CA, USA
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 00:10:26 GMT

If anyone is interested in details on getting QBlazers direct from Telebit
at $299 I can send you information.  I can also post the information if
enough people are interested.

Fritz Mueller, Product Marketing Manager
fmueller@telebit.com
-- 
Fritz Mueller             fmueller@telebit.com
Product Manager           408-745-3028
Telebit Corp
From: clemon@lemsys.UUCP (Craig Lemon VE3XCL)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
Subject: Re:    Serial and Parallel interface ??????
Distribution: world
Date: 25 Jul 92 22:13:31 EDT
Organization: Private UUCP "Twig" Node

In article <1992Jul22.053652.9090@raven.alaska.edu> floyd@hayes.ims.alaska.edu (Floyd Davidson) writes:
>In article <clemon.08ii@lemsys.UUCP> clemon@lemsys.UUCP (Craig Lemon VE3XCL) writes:
>>Lining the bits up single file can
>>only go so fast.  While we may not have reached this limit with standard
>>high-speed modem technology yet, there will be other standards (ISDN
>>perhaps) that will.
>
>ISDN is has a serial interface.  And while the fastest serial interface
>may not be good enough someday, the fastest one I work with right
>now runs well up into the multimegabit range...  45Mbps.  And I
>hear of others that are faster.

        OK.  Granted, serial links can be fast once you start shielding the
path.  You can only go so fast on a serial line before the frequency of the
bits reaches RF range and cable losses on a normal "twisted pair" become
significant.  I think the point of the debate centers more around looking
for a standard solution to replace RS-232C as opposed to arguing actual
serial vs. parallel concepts.  For simple things like losses in cabling
that I mentioned earlier, the frequencies involved in a parallel bus are
at least 1/8th what they would be in a serial environment.  That is
something to consider that is totally separate from servicing the data
stream at the terminal.

--
 Craig Lemon VE3XCL - Kitchener, Ontario. Amiga B2000  OS 2.04  UUCPv1.15D.
 +1 519 741 0297    +1 519 578 7817              | Silly people!  We all
 clemon@lemsys.UUCP clemon%lemsys@xenitec.on.ca  | know that the Universe
 IP/Packet: ve3xcl@ve3xcl.ampr.org [44.135.84.51]| revolves around UUNET!
From: geoff@zswamp.UUCP (Geoffrey Welsh)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
Subject: Re: V.fast modems available?
Keywords: v32 zyxel uucp
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 23:42:31 EDT
Organization: Izot's Swamp

rdippold@cancun.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold) writes:

> Motorola Codex, however, is offering a free upgrade to the actual
> V.fast standard modem when it comes out.  For point to point if you
> have the money this is an excellent deal.  I agree, if there was no
> promised upgrade it'd be obsolete very fast.

   Why?  Are these modems not compatible with any existing standard (e.g. 
V.32bis)?

   USRobotics has promised to upgrade their small-box Courier V.32bis and 
Courier HST Dual Standard modems to V.fast when it arrives, and they're 
compatible with an existing standard; USR's Courier line isn't as cheap as, 
say, Supra but they're probably less expansive than the Motorola CODEX 
product.

Geoffrey Welsh, 7 Strath Humber Court, Islington, Ontario, M9A 4C8 Canada
geoff@zswamp.uucp, [xenitec.on.ca|m2xenix.psg.com]!zswamp!geoff (416)258-8467
From: ted@isgtec.com (Ted Richards)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
Subject: Re: Zmodem file transfer time calculation?
Date: 27 Jul 92 16:58:32 GMT
Organization: ISG Technologies Inc. Mississauga Ont. Canada
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

bsmith@access.digex.com (Barry Smith) writes:
: Is there a good program that calculates, from DOS, how long it takes
: to transfer a file or set of files using ZMODEM at a given baud rate?
: If not, does anyone have an equation or algorithm for calculating the
: CPS rate of a typical ZMODEM transfer, thus applicable to file size
: count?

As well as being great at communcications, Telix will do this for you.
When you list a directory, it shows you how long it will take to
transfer each file.  Unfortunately, it uses the DTE speed rather than
the modem-modem connect speed.  Since Zmodem transfers run closer to
the modem-modem speed (1080 cps for 9600 baud V.32/V.42bis) rather than
the DTE speed (locked at 38400), I just mutiply by four to get the
actual time.

Roughly speaking, the transfer rate is 1/10 the baud rate.  At 9600
baud, assume 1Kb transfer in one second.  At 4800 baud, 1Kb takes 2
seconds.  At 2400 baud, 1Kb takes 4 seconds.  These will be accurate
within 10% or so.

--
Ted Richards            ted@isgtec.com             [...!uunet.ca!isgtec!ted]
ISG Technologies Inc.   3030 Orlando Dr. Mississauga  Ont.  Canada   L4V 1S8
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
From: mbl900@anu.oz.au (Mathew BM LIM)
Subject: Operator assisted calls
Organization: Computer Services Centre, Australian National University
Date: 28 Jul 92 00:36:17 GMT

I am trying to set up a system for member of our staff who travel
internationally to be able to dial back from O/S and exchange e-mail.
In order to charge the costs back to the office, they will be using 
telecom credit cards. To use this system from overseas, one needs to make
operator assisted calls. How can this be done on a Hayes compatible modem
using Mac software (Serial Eudora)?

Any suggestion for modems which will work worldwide (well, in Japan,
S/E Asia, America and Europe anyway) would also be welcome.

Thanks in advance ...

--
Mathew Lim, Unix Systems Programmer, ANU Supercomputer Facility,	
Australian National University,	GPO Box 4, Canberra City, ACT, Australia 2601.
Telephone : +61 6 249 2750 	| 
Fax       : +61 6 247 3425	| E-Mail  : M.Lim@anu.edu.au
From: edhall@rand.org (Ed Hall)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
Subject: Re: Modems, compression, and SLIP or PPP (was Re: Using Telebit PEP with SLIP)
Date: 23 Jul 92 13:31:17 GMT
Organization: RAND Corporation.

In article <1992Jul23.125750.1022@gandalf.ca> dcarr@gandalf.ca (Dave Carr) writes:
>You should turn off MNP4 and/or V.42 when running PPP.

Why?  There is an obvious loss of throughput, since start and stop bits
will no longer be stripped.  Granted, some modems might have lower
latency in this configuration, but some don't.  And the loss of end-to-
end flow-control can be a problem when the DTE datarate doesn't match
the DCE datarate (likely with V.32bis since 14.4K serial interfaces
might be a bit hard to arrange).

>Also, PPP can
>optionally turn off the address and control fields.

Yup.  Saves a whole two bytes per packet, but it adds up.  I forgot to
mention it.

>Compression over
>PPP was a hot topic at the IETF-PPP meeting last week in Boston.

Care to tell us more?

		-Ed Hall
		edhall@rand.org