HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: des@inmos.co.uk (David Shepherd)
Newsgroups: uk.transport
Subject: Re: Usefull Motorway Messages
Date: 4 Jan 93 11:36:50 GMT
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]

Steve "daffy" Hunt (steve@acorn.co.uk) wrote:
: Steve Sherwood (sts@mfltd.co.uk) wrote:
: : unreasnable speeds.  Last night on the M4, 4 Mercs, 2 BMW's and a Range Rover
: : overtook me, at least 30mph faster.  If there was an accident.. They would
: : never stop in time.   And why is it only the Mercs etc..?  Even the company
: : reps in their Sierra has the sense to slow down in those conditions.

: Those cars go with a certain type of position and lifestyle.  I think
: that the sort of people who aspire to and attain that sort of position
: and status tend to be aggressive and egotistical.  Doesn't seem
: implausible that this is reflected in the way they drive.  I expect a
: load of people will now post and claim that it is the other way round,
: and we'd all be safer drivers if these vehicles were banned, but I
: doubt that.  It's a case of you drive what you are, not you are what
: you drive.

you won't need to worry about mercs etc any more soon as those are the
sort of cars that manufacturers are looking at fitting forward looking
radars etc to - either to help them drive at 70 in fog :-) or
to cram more cars on motorways by having "road trains" where one a car
can electronically hook up to the car in front and maintain a 2 foot
gap at 70mph. of course all this depends on drive by wire which as
we all know is totally safe :-)

--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
david shepherd: des@inmos.co.uk                     tel: 0454-616616 x 625
                inmos ltd, 1000 aztec west, almondsbury, bristol, bs12 4sq
                1992: celebrate the quincentenary of columbus getting lost
From: bemj1@cl.cam.ac.uk (Bernie Jones)
Newsgroups: uk.transport
Subject: Re: Motorway Madness
Date: 7 Jan 93 14:36:50 GMT
Reply-To: Bernie.Jones@cl.cam.ac.uk
Distribution: uk
Organization: U of Cambridge Comp Lab, UK

In article <C0HFH8.MuD@bailgate.gpsemi.com> jon_w@sn4401.oldham.gpsemi.com (Jonathan Walker) writes:
>I know the signs you are on about, I saw a sign lit up saying 50 on the M57

The weird thing about these signs is that although the police (or whoever)
seem to cancel the warning signs after the danger is over, they never seem
to get rid of the ones that say 'End' Driving along the M6 and M1 a few days
ago I went past around 10 signs saying 'End', and not a single warning at
all - I would have thought that the little computers that control these 
things would be more organised (unless it's a cunning low-tech-masquerading-
as-high-tech system, and each matrix has a bank of 24x24 ? switches by the
side of the road that control the bulbs individually :-] )
From: eac@world.std.com (Eric A Cottrell)
Subject: Re: Motorway Madness
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 03:15:28 GMT

In <C0Fou8.IJ3@brunel.ac.uk> Andy.Taylor@brunel.ac.uk (Andy J Taylor) writes:

>What a refreshing change to read a newsgroup with no Americans posting to it!

But some who drive in the UK occasionally lurk in the background!
73 Eric   eac@world.std.com  (Lynn, Ma. USA - Named after King's Lynn)
From: ian@pharaoh.cyborg.bt.co.uk (Speed Freak)
Newsgroups: uk.transport
Subject: Re: Speed trap cameras in London
Date: 12 Jan 93 11:33:40 GMT
Organization: large

TREHARAJ@ibm3090.bham.ac.uk writes:

>Andy Crocker writes:
>>Here is a list of some of the speed trap cameras in London.
>>
>>
>>
>>etc
>>
>Am I to assume your trying to help us avoid being _caught_ speeding?

Would I do a thing like that ?  I believe all these cameras are signposted
anyway.

What is the penalty for using the wrong number plate on your car ? Is it
a simple 25 pounds and no points ?  Hmmm, I think I'll just take the number
from another red Peugeot 205 and have some plates made up for my car.  Just
imagine the look on the other person's face when he is shown a photo of his
'offence' and is prosecuted for it!  As I have only ever been stopped about
3 times in 11 years driving I doubt that the discrepancy with the tax disc 
is likely to be noticed.

Ian.
-- 
"Life is islands of ecstasy in an ocean of ennui, and after the age of thirty
land is seldom seen."  -- Luke Rhinehart

Ian Crocker 					ian@cyborg.bt.co.uk
From: R.J.Woolley@lut.ac.uk
Newsgroups: uk.transport
Subject: Re: No lights
Date: 12 Jan 93 09:44:22 GMT
Reply-To: R.J.Woolley@lut.ac.uk (Late Login Merchant)
Distribution: uk
Organization: Loughborough University, UK.

In article <1993Jan11.154036.27241@medusa.prime.com> jonh@CIS.Prime.COM writes:
>Yesterday afternoon I was travelling on the M4 in high winds and driving rain,
>the spray made the visibility extremely poor. I was following a police
>car in the middle lane at about 60mph. An idiot overtook both of us 
>in the outside lane at around 80mph WITH NO LIGHTS at all. To my
>amazement the police car continued at the same speed and took no
>action.
>
>Does anybody know whether it's illegal to drive in bad conditions
>without lights; and if it isn't - should it be? IMHO the driver in
>this case was guilty of careless driving at the very least.

 As far as I'm aware driving without lights in poor conditions is just as 
illegal as driving at night without lights. Regarding speeding I believe Essex police on the M25 have the following attitude:

70 - 80 MPH
80 - 90 Stop and warn
90 + Ticket

Any comments?

Rob.
<R.J.Woolley@uk.ac.lut>
From: ceram@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Mr J W Bottomley)
Newsgroups: uk.transport
Subject: Re: Usefull Motorway Messages
Date: 5 Jan 1993 18:28:38 -0000
Organization: Computing Services, University of Warwick, UK
NNTP-Posting-Host: clover.csv.warwick.ac.uk

In article <1993Jan4.113651.7667@wraxall.inmos.co.uk> des@inmos.co.uk (David Shepherd) writes:

>: Those cars go with a certain type of position and lifestyle.  I think
>: that the sort of people who aspire to and attain that sort of position
>: and status tend to be aggressive and egotistical.  Doesn't seem
>: implausible that this is reflected in the way they drive.  I expect a
>: load of people will now post and claim that it is the other way round,
>: and we'd all be safer drivers if these vehicles were banned, but I
>: doubt that.  It's a case of you drive what you are, not you are what
>: you drive.

Sorry to be one of those people! But I think it's not as simple as this,
although no doubt male ego-tension plays a part. (Although many women seem
to burn along the M-ways at frantic speeds now!) I reckon it has to do
mostly with the feeling of detachment from the road and the outside speed 
that powerful luxury cars induce. I recently switched up from 1.4 type cars
to 1.6/2 litre jobs. I found that I had to constantly check my speed on the
dash as I was invariably going faster than I thought.

Some of it is also the motorway-logevity-speed-up-effect. (MLSU) This is 
a well known phenomena whereby people gradually increase speed as they travel
further along a motorway... prbably due to boredom, loss of concentration
and relaxation into the overall (false) feeling of safety induced as one
gets used to the prevailing flow and speed.

I recall a recent survey on this subject which found that another effect
may be related to job status. (The survey only looked at company car
drivers.) Random checks by police of people travelling at various speeds
on the M1 found that there was a marked statistical tendancy for people
to speed if they were in junior to middle management positions. People at
Company Director/Board levels generally travelled more sensibly. The
survey psychologists speculated that people with more frustrations and less
feeling of power in everyday life may take this out in fast aggressive
driving on the roads...  this would certainly fit the case of the most
extreme form of car abuse, `joy-riding', carried out mostly by unemployed 
-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jim Bottomley: ceram@uk.ac.warwick.csv  ;  apj003@uk.ac.cov.cck
146 Earlsdon Avenue North, Earlsdon, Coventry, UK  +44 203 673784
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: bemj1@cl.cam.ac.uk (Bernie Jones)
Newsgroups: uk.transport
Subject: Re: Traffic Police (was Rear End Drivers etc)
Date: 11 Jan 93 15:51:50 GMT
Reply-To: Bernie.Jones@cl.cam.ac.uk
Distribution: uk
Organization: U of Cambridge Comp Lab, UK

In article <1irkftINNkss@mserv1.dl.ac.uk> pho@mserv1.dl.ac.uk writes:
>I was once stopped by the police in an even more dangerous situation - INSIDE
>the Mersey tunnel - just to tell me I had forgotten to switch my lights off.
>I assume there is a good reason for this regulation (Does it make it ilegal
>to drive a volvo through the tunnel :-)), but they could have waited till I 
>got to the toll booth.

And to put this into focus for people who have not had the pleasure of
driving thro' the Mersey tunnel, it is illegal to change lanes inside it, 
so once the police stopped him, this would have caused an enormous traffic
jam!
A friend of mine was once driving through one of the Mersey Tunnels when
a police car came up behind him very fast, and hung a couple of feet from
his bumper. He was in the outside lane, and since the tunnel was empty, moved
over to allow the police car to pass, as it seemed sensible to, given the way
the police were driving. They stopped him (when he left the tunnel) and
told him off for letting them past!

Bernie
From: R.J.Woolley@lut.ac.uk
Newsgroups: uk.transport
Subject: Re: Speed trap cameras in London
Date: 12 Jan 93 09:46:44 GMT
Reply-To: R.J.Woolley@lut.ac.uk (Late Login Merchant)
Distribution: uk
Organization: Loughborough University, UK.

Certain BP filling stations in the London area sell maps with the Location
of cameras marked on it.

Of course, only 20% of the speed camera boxes actually contain cameras!!!


Rob.
<R.J.Woolley@uk.ac.lut>
From: ssurpeat@csug.cs.reading.ac.uk (Richard T Peat)
Newsgroups: uk.transport
Subject: Re: Usefull Motorway Messages
Date: 11 Jan 93 10:17:59 GMT
Reply-To: ssurpeat@csug.cs.reading.ac.uk
Organization: Dept. of Comp. Sci., University of Reading

In article 15507@edscom.demon.co.uk, ian@edscom.demon.co.uk (Ian Green) writes:
>The one useful thing signs really could do is to warn people of major holdups
>ahead and give them chance to avoid them.  To do this the signs would need
>placing just before an exit to advise of a queue so that one is given the
>option of turning off.  The display could be kept very simple - just a number
>specifiying the length (in miles) of the queue that the hapless motorist can
>expect to face between this and the next junction if they do not turn off.

They have them on the M25, and the surrounding motorways. They're large overhead
displays that give messages such as 10 mile queue on the M3 and such, generally
in time to change your route.

I actually took the advice of one and came off the M25 earlier than I normally do,
and drove over the M25 to see the entire thing stationary.

So they are useful!

Richard Peat
ssurpeat@uk.ac.rdg.susssys1
From: Andy.Taylor@brunel.ac.uk (Andy J Taylor)
Newsgroups: uk.transport
Subject: Motorway Madness
Date: 6 Jan 93 13:15:43 GMT
Organization: Henley Management College, UK

What a refreshing change to read a newsgroup with no Americans posting to it!

On the subject of Motorway warning signs, simplt saying 'fog' is not
enough, but putting a speed up is not much better because these signs
are never up to date.  I can't remember the number of times I have
slowed down because the signs said '50' and then there was no
obstruction at all!

And while we're on the subject of stupidity on the motorway, don't you
kust hate those people who stay in the middle lane no matter what the
traffic situation is?  And why is it that when I overtake someone who
is in the middle lane and then pull into the nearside lane that they
automatically assume that I have slowed down (well, I am in the _slow_
lane) and begin to creep up on me?

Perhaps if I bought a tank.....


-- 
********************************************************************
* Andy.Taylor@brunel.ac.uk       * Henley Management College, UK   * 
********************************************************************
* "...And pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space *
* Cos there's bugger all down here on Earth." - Monty Python       *
********************************************************************
From: R.J.Woolley@lut.ac.uk
Newsgroups: uk.transport
Subject: Re: Usefull Motorway Messages
Date: 11 Jan 93 17:56:37 GMT
Reply-To: R.J.Woolley@lut.ac.uk (Late Login Merchant)
Organization: Loughborough University, UK.

In article <1993Jan8.133002.15507@edscom.demon.co.uk> ian@edscom.demon.co.uk (Ian Green) writes:
>I agree.  I am sick of straining to read signs which tell me there's fog about
>or sitting in stationary traffic (often caused by folk ahead slowing to look at
>an accident on the other carriageway) next to a sign telling me to do 30mph!!
>
>The one useful thing signs really could do is to warn people of major holdups
>ahead and give them chance to avoid them.  To do this the signs would need
>placing just before an exit to advise of a queue so that one is given the
>option of turning off.  The display could be kept very simple - just a number
>specifiying the length (in miles) of the queue that the hapless motorist can
>expect to face between this and the next junction if they do not turn off.
>
>Any road designers or traffic planners read this group??

Well this undergrad transport student does. As I've said the Department of Transport is currently testing signs on the M25 which provide between 2and 4 lines of text. I think approximately 20 characters per line, possibly more. These can show such messages as "Junction 10 off slip closed" or "Delays on A3". They have 
the advantage over traditional dot matrix signs of having a greater area for
display and also having text inputted directly.

Rob.

<R.J.Woolley@uk.ac.lut>
Xref: sparky uk.transport:175 uk.misc:2295
From: mathew <mathew@mantis.co.uk>
Newsgroups: uk.transport,uk.misc
Subject: Re: Transport subsidies - Was: Car Parking
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 93 13:56:30 GMT
Followup-To: uk.transport
Distribution: uk
Organization: Mantis Consultants, Cambridge. UK.

nwp90@ecs.soton.ac.uk (Nick Phillips) writes:
> And to answer someone else, road tax does not nearly pay for the roads. It's
> like national insurance - just a token payment which you think goes to pay
> for something specific.

At the risk of spoiling the fun, here are some actual data:

Whitaker's Almanack                
125th Edition, 1993
ISBN 0-85021-231-6

Licensed motor vehicles in Great Britain 1990
Private and light goods            21.952.000
Motor cycles, scooters, mopeds        750.000
Public transport vehicles             109.000
Heavy Goods Vehicles                  449.000
Agricultural tractors                 346.000
Others                                 65.000
Total                              24.511.000

Total includes 840.000 Crown vehicles and
vehicles exempt from licensing

Road expenditure                 million/year
England 1992-3
        TG                                 370
        Motorways and trunk roads        1.750
Wales 1992-3
        TG                                  37
Scotland 1990-1
        TG                                 130

TG = Transport Grant for local road systems

Vehicle licenses
Motor cars                             per year
        First built before 1947-01-01         60
        Others                               110
Motor cycles
        Not exceeding 150cc                   15
        150-250cc                             30
        Exceeding 250cc                       50
        First built before 1947-01-01,
        exceeding 250cc, up to 101,6kg        30
Three wheelers
        Not over 150cc                        15
        Others                                50
Hackney carriages
        Seating less than 9                  110
        Seating 9-16                         130
        Seating 17-35                        200
        Seating 36-60                        300
        Seating over 60                      450


mathew
-- 
You can communicate with me securely via PGP 2.1.  For information, send mail
to pgpinfo@mantis.co.uk.  For a big block of keys, mail pgpkeys@mantis.co.uk.
PGP public key fingerprint = B2 41 30 5F 5B 20 B9 D5  7C 8F 75 88 7C DA D8 C5

Newsgroups: uk.transport
From: dec@alex.com (Doug Clinton)
Subject: Re: Motorway Madness
Organization: Alex Technologies Ltd
Apparently-To: mail2news@demon.co.uk
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 11:18:57 +0000

In article <C0Fou8.IJ3@brunel.ac.uk>, Andy.Taylor@brunel.ac.uk (Andy J Taylor) writes:
|> What a refreshing change to read a newsgroup with no Americans posting to it!

Well, this is my first posting but there is at least one American
*reading* this group.

Have a nice day :-)

Doug


-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------
Doug Clinton				Alex Technologies Ltd
dec@alex.com				CP House,
					97-107 Uxbridge Road,
+44 (0)81 566 2307			Ealing, London, W5 5TL
---------------------------------------------------------------
"Just because someone famous said it doesn't make it true."
				- Douglas E. Clinton
---------------------------------------------------------------
From: ceram@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Mr J W Bottomley)
Newsgroups: uk.transport
Subject: Re: Usefull Motorway Messages
Date: 8 Jan 1993 22:14:27 -0000
Organization: Computing Services, University of Warwick, UK
NNTP-Posting-Host: clover.csv.warwick.ac.uk

In article <1993Jan8.133002.15507@edscom.demon.co.uk> ian@edscom.demon.co.uk (Ian Green) writes:

>
>The one useful thing signs really could do is to warn people of major holdups
>ahead and give them chance to avoid them.  To do this the signs would need
>placing just before an exit to advise of a queue so that one is given the
>option of turning off.  The display could be kept very simple - just a number
>specifiying the length (in miles) of the queue that the hapless motorist can
>expect to face between this and the next junction if they do not turn off.

On motorways like the M6 they have batteries of cameras all over the place
and big costly traffic `control' centres but they still can't seem to
get the signing right or useful even in these areas. For example, coming
into the Birmingham area on the M6, where there is frequently a crash, fog,
or both, there are no signs on the gantrys at the beginning of the conurbation
capable of saying something like `warning: heavy congestion ahead'.

If it's like this in the areas that are camera'ed and controlled, what chance
is there in rural motorways?

>
>Any road designers or traffic planners read this group??
>

I believe the use of the words `designer' and `planner' here to be
inappropriate descriptions of the slap-dash, half-baked, sloppy and
downright stupid under-designing and wanton lack of forethought in
Britain's traffic policies.

Flames to the Department of Transport. They deserve them.
-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jim Bottomley: ceram@uk.ac.warwick.csv  ;  apj003@uk.ac.cov.cck
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: dhunt@infocom.UUCP (David Hunt)
Newsgroups: uk.transport
Subject: Re: Transport subsidies - Was: Car Parking
Date: 11 Jan 93 15:01:20 GMT
Distribution: uk
Organization: INFOCOM Public Unix Server, +44 [0] 734 340055
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]

snail@lsl.co.uk wrote:
> LGV - are these the 4 ton and 8 ton trucks ?
> HGV - I guess this is any truck not in category LGV

LGV has replaced the term HGV

>       HGVs (certainly artics) - the tractor unit is taxed less (several 100)
>       if it has an extra axle, since this usually implies two more steering
>       wheels (front four now steer), spreading the load more effectively.

Tractors are taxed according to the number of axles, but are also taxed 
according to the amount of axles the trailer they will be towing has. It is 
quite true that a tractor with three axles and a trailer with three axles 
receives a reduction in the duty payable (called concessionary rates). Road 
Tax averages around #3000.00 and can go as high as #6000 per vehicle. Also 
into this equation you should add the Cost of the Operator securing a 
Licence (issued by the DOT to operate Goods vehicles).

--
dhunt
-- 
_____________________________________________________
dhunt@infocom.co.uk              (David Hunt - SYSOP)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: ian@pharaoh.cyborg.bt.co.uk (Speed Freak)
Newsgroups: uk.transport
Subject: Speed trap cameras in London
Date: 11 Jan 93 16:54:38 GMT
Distribution: uk
Organization: large

Here is a list of some of the speed trap cameras in London.  It was not typed
in by me so I cannot vouch for the accuracy of it:


A3 Kingston bypass approach Robin Hood Roundabout

A406 Clockwise
Gunnersbury Ave 100m Nth of Chiswick roundabout
Hanger Lane Chatsworth Rd just before the hill
Nth Circ after Harrow Rd before the iron bridge

A406 Anti Clockwise
Nth Circular Rd Dog Lane before the iron bridge

A4 Westbound
Great West Rd after Hammersmith flyover 200m before the Hogath roundabout
(reversible)
Great West Rd Thornbury Ave before Osterley tube
Before the hump
Bath Rd Cranford Lane after the footbridge

A4 Eastbound
Great West Rd Penwerris Ave before the hump
Great West Rd before Osterley tube

M4 Eastbound
Sliproad from M25 and approach to elevated section
M4 Spur Rd towards the airport
West Cross route southbound 50m from the roundabout

A315 Westbound, just over Twickenham Bridge

A316 between A309 and A307 just after the pedestrian bridge eastbound

A316 Eastbound just off M3 on country way before A314 just after the
roundabout with B358

A30 Westbound; Gt Southwest Rd, Griling Way

A30 Eastbound; Gt Southwest Rd 100m after Stanwell Rd (cargo)

M41 Southbound just after the railway bridge down from the M40 (reversible)

A312 both directions just south of the junction (3) with the M4

A40 Eastbound
100m East of the Uxbridge Roundabout underpass
100m before the Hanger Lane Gyratory tunnel

A40 Westbound
200m after the traffic lights at Horn Lane

A1 Archway Road
Southbound 50m after Viaduct (Hornsey Lane)
Holloway Road
Southbound 50m after Lorraine Rd
Southbound 50m after Fieldway Cres

A1 Northbound
Holloway Rd. Mercers Rd

A1 Southbound
Upper Street Essex Rd ??

-- 
"Life is islands of ecstasy in an ocean of ennui, and after the age of thirty
land is seldom seen."  -- Luke Rhinehart

Ian Crocker 					ian@cyborg.bt.co.uk
Newsgroups: uk.transport
From: ian@edscom.demon.co.uk (Ian Green)
Subject: Re: Usefull Motorway Messages
Organization: EDS-Scicon, Milton Keynes, UK
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 13:30:02 GMT

I agree.  I am sick of straining to read signs which tell me there's fog about
or sitting in stationary traffic (often caused by folk ahead slowing to look at
an accident on the other carriageway) next to a sign telling me to do 30mph!!

The one useful thing signs really could do is to warn people of major holdups
ahead and give them chance to avoid them.  To do this the signs would need
placing just before an exit to advise of a queue so that one is given the
option of turning off.  The display could be kept very simple - just a number
specifiying the length (in miles) of the queue that the hapless motorist can
expect to face between this and the next junction if they do not turn off.

Any road designers or traffic planners read this group??

Ian.
-- 
/--------------------------------------v----------------------------------\
| Opinions expressed are my own and    | Phone: +44 908 585858 or 284508  |
| not necessarily those of my employer | Fax:   +44 908 584620            |
\--------------------------------------^----------------------------------/
From: TREHARAJ@ibm3090.bham.ac.uk
Newsgroups: uk.transport
Subject: Re: Speed trap cameras in London
Date: 11 Jan 93 19:09:20 GMT
Organization: The University of Birmingham, United Kingdom
NNTP-Posting-Host: ibm3090.bham.ac.uk

Andy Crocker writes:

>Here is a list of some of the speed trap cameras in London.
>
>
>
>etc
>
Am I to assume your trying to help us avoid being _caught_ speeding?

Andy T.