From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne)
Subject: Re: What feminists believe
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 00:49:31 GMT

In article <16B63DCA6.SURGDM@mizzou1.missouri.edu> SURGDM@mizzou1.missouri.edu (Diane) writes:
>In article <1993Jan26.191422.7632@netcom.com>
>payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) writes:
> 
>>It might interest you to know that while in the USMC, I talked to many
>>female Marines who were quite vocal about refusing to fight. I also knew
>>of a few women who got pregnant to get out. They still have this option,
>>there are massive differences beyond combat. Women in the military have
>>their privacy respected, men do not.
>>
>When I was in the Army, I knew several people of *both* genders who
>were vocally opposed to combat. I also knew men who shaved their entire
>bodies, began wetting their bunks, and masturbated in public in order to
>get out of the Army under Section 8s. 

So you think medical dischagres are equivalant to dishonorable discharges?

>There still is this option. 

Stupidity is always an option for some, but just try to get a job with a
dishonorable, or even a less than honorable discharge. Last I heard, there
were no penalties for medical discharges.

>                                                                 Privacy
>in the military? Maybe in the Marines, but I saw little evidence of it in
>the Army, for *either* sex. When I was in basic I lived on a 40-woman
>open bay. There were 4 stall-less toilets and one large shower room. At my
>permanent duty station I shared a room with 3 other women with one bathroom
>for each floor. Privacy in the field (playing war) was non-existant (no
>latrines, 2-person pup tents, etc).

Good point, let me re-phrase, on base, anywhere males and females shared
quarters, womens privacy was respected, mens privacy was not.
  
>>There is so many non-combat related pro-female biases in the military that
>>could easily be addressed, but are not, that I doubt that women in the
>>military will even work under equaivalnat conditions as the men. And there
>>is always the issue of pregnancy as an out, what if this happened during
>>a combat situation? What if this happened accidentally?
> 
>Getting pregnant to get out of the military! Boy, is *that* shooting
>yourself in the foot! 

Right, like none of the women ever planned on having a family anyway. It 
may not be an ideal solution, but it is magnitudes better then the options
open to the men.

>                        Wait a minute! there were *men* during 'Nam that
>actually *did* shoot themselves in the foot to get out of combat! Why,
>there were even men who shot their commanding officers to get out of combat!

It'll get you outta combat, but your problems are just beginning. I have not
heard of shooting commanding officers, where did this happen?
  
>But really,
>In an 'equal' situation, a pregnant soldier would be treated no differently
>than any other soldier with a temporary disability. I had my daughter while
>I was a crewchief at Ft. Campbell. I worked on the line (in civvies- there
>were no maternity flightsuits at that time!) until the 8th month, when I
>took a desk job in supply until I went into labor. I was back in 6 weeks
>and finished out my obligation. I spent less time out than one of our
>lieutenants who hurt his back on a fishing trip!

My experience is that married personnel got all the breaks. I don't know how
many extra watches I stood so the married guy could go home.
  
>I will try to dig up the study that I participated in (in the late '70s)
>that the Army conducted to study the impact of pregnancy on troop strength.
>It found that soldiers *who had pregnant wives* took more time off from
>duty than pregnant soldiers did!

Interesting. Obviously not American men, we know how they run off the moment
they get what they want, and later become deadbeat dads. 
  
>So tell me, what are these great advantages to being a woman in the military
>that I seem to have *completely* missed?

You have touched on events, but not the results of the events. I don't know
about the Army, but the USMC will do everything in it's power to make sure
that those doing the things you mentioned pay for a long long time, court-
martial, possible brig time, -then- a dishonorable discharge. From reading
your post I almost got the impression that the things you mentioned were OK,
and without severe penalties. To the best of my knowledge, they are not.
You may call them equivalant, but unless you can show me medical discharges
under honerable conditions, pardon me if I withhold acknowledgment.

>Diane


Rich

payner@netcom.com


Xref: sparky soc.women:23159 soc.motss:58815 soc.misc:1146 soc.men:23409 soc.college.grad:2381 soc.college:6081 soc.bi:19362 sci.psychology:5065 rec.misc:390 alt.politics.homosexuality:10402 alt.personals:26828 misc.misc:4486 soc.couples:4953