From: aw1@Ra.MsState.Edu (Andrew Wargo)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
Subject: Re: A Bedtime Story
Date: 5 Oct 92 22:34:00 GMT
Organization: Mississippi State University

In article <1992Oct5.212030.4022@u.washington.edu> kruegek@stein.u.washington.edu (Kirby Krueger) writes:
>In article <1992Oct5.112555.7013@pimacc.pima.edu> ppugliese@pimacc.pima.edu writes:
>>In article <1992Oct5.010318.426@u.washington.edu>, kruegek@stein.u.washington.edu (Kirby Krueger) writes:
>>> In article <1992Oct4.062435.7006@pimacc.pima.edu> ppugliese@pimacc.pima.edu writes:
>>>>In article <1992Oct3.345565.35353@ghostwheel.dartmouth.edu>, takkyon@dartmouth.edu (Dr. Tachyon) writes:
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>>Belittlement of AM's vision of a the hypothetical world she calls Pern is
>>>>a classic sign of intolerance. The same tactic has been used in the past
>>>>against homosexuals & various minorities.
>>>> 
>>> No, this is a classic sign of literary criticism.  Yes, you won your little
>>> battle, and AM has verified your interpretation.  This does not mean that 
>>> we can't say that it was a poorly chosen interpretation.  
>>
>>It also doesn't mean that I can't post my rejection of your position &
>>criticize it for what I deem intolerance.
>>
>True, but would you please clearly state what about it makes it intolerance?
>I honestly can not see why you use that word. It does not seem to 
>apply, given the definition of intolerance I know.
>>> I criticize 
>>> authors all the time - some people make their living off of it.  Disagreement
>>> with AM is not intolerence.  
>>
>>All criticism does not display intolerance. Yours does.
>>
>Again, please support that assertion.
>
>>> You claim to be oppressed, yet are by far the
>>> most dogmatic of the bunch.  
>>
>>Well I most vehemently dispute that statement. In fact, I find the others
>>to be "by far the most dogmatic of the bunch".
>>l
>Alright, I was too strong.  I do think, however that you are as equally
>dogmatic as your opponents.
>
>>> Yes, you were right, as you are boasting about
>>> constantly now. (Hint: it isn't winning you any friends here.  You come 
>>> across as quite egotistical.  I don't want to flame you excessively, though,
>>> here.)  
>>
>>If there had been no posts that attempted to twist & distort my position &
>>AM's endoresment of it I wouldn't have had to set the record straight. I
>>think you are placing an exaggerated value upon your "friendship". I really
>>don't that I would care to be friends with someone as closeminded as your
>>posts show you to be.
>>
>My posts, huh? Did you notice that this last one was my first post? And in
>it I say that your position is a valid one?  Please, support your assertion
>of my closemindedness.  Not of your opponents in general, based on only
>my post.   
>>> Please, can you not see that intolerence is not a valid description of this?
>>> Disagreement is more accurate.  This isn't the only case I disagree with
>>> AM's Pern. (Or, more accurately, think she should have done it a different
>>> way. She screwed up, whatever.)  The way that draconic abilities such as 
>>> lifting things are handled in ATWOP (I'm being vague for spoilers sake)
>>> was pretty horrendous, IMHO.  Is this intolerance of AM?  I sure doubt it.
>>
>>We *all* could've aggreed to disagree a long way back. Instead the others
>>chose to attempt to intimidate me with flames so that their position would
>>prevail. It was *their* decision, not mine.
>>
>From what I remember, they initially tried to dispute the claims by 
>showing support from the books.  You told them that it was all irrelevent.
>From my point of view, you came across as one who was refusing to see
>that the other point of view was valid and better supported.  I never have
>said that your opinion was invalid, just until AM came along, unsupported.
> 
>>> And, to the best of my knowledge, nobody on a PernMUSH has forced you to
>>> have sex as a result of a mating flight.  If they say it is preferred, that
>>> is not intolerance.  Once they actually force you to do it, you've got a
>>> valid complaint.  (Although I'd suggest that if you have severe problems with
>>> policy, you might find a different place to play rather than rant and rave
>>> in the middle of everyone else's fun.)
>>
>>There have been an number of posts that have stated that there are a number
>>of riders who do, in fact, feel intimidated into avoiding matings. This
>>seems to me to reflect an atmosphere of intolerance.
>>
>A number equal to 1, as far as I remember.  General query: does anyone
>out there actually feel that you will be obligated, despite general policy,
>to have sex after a flight on a MUSH?  I haven't really seen it come up
>on PernMUSH - there doesn't seem to be an atmosphere of intolerance as it
>is a total non-issue there, from what I've seen.
> 
>>> And is telling you to shut up intolerance?  Perhaps.  But face it -   
>>> virtually every issue that gets brought up now has been beaten to death
>>> before.  I'd suggest that you let it die.  I'd suggest that the rest of
>>> you let PHIL die. Er, I mean, stop responding to PHIL as well.  PHIL, lose
>>> the persecution complex and ego trip.  You may be right, but you do come
>>> across as somewhat of a jerk when you act like that.
>>
>>I've already let it die. More than once. I will, however, continue to
>>challenge the sort of distortions that continue to be posted concern-
>>ing my statements & position.
>>
>>PHIL
>I've tried very hard only to address what you have directly stated, and
>not distort your words.  I've also tried to qualify my opinions.  I have
>also tried, this time, to avoid attacking you and to address your points.
>I suppose I should let it die, as my own advice, but there were some 
>points in here I felt I needed to address.
>

I'M SICK OF THIS DIXSCUSSION. END IT NOW. A LOT OF PEOPLE HERE ARE SICK
OF LISTENING TO YOU. WE GOT ON HERE FOR PERN. NOT YOU. SHUT YOUR JUVENILE
MOUTHS.

--
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