HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gnn@wsl.dec.com (George Neville-Neil)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: Picking and Choosing our References
Date: 9 Sep 92 18:20:55 GMT
Reply-To: gnn@wsl.dec.com (George Neville-Neil)
Organization: DEC Western Software Lab

In article <12168@optilink.UUCP>, cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
|> In article <95358@bu.edu>, kane@buast7.bu.edu (Hot Young Star) writes:
|> > In article <12132@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
|> > >In article <95203@bu.edu>, kane@buast7.bu.edu (Hot Young Star) writes:
|> # ## Funny, he didn't mention how it was standard practice for men of Judaic
|> # ## times to have not only a wife but several concubines, depending on their
|> # ## wealth. Promiscuity was accepted in Judaic times.
|> # 
|> # #No, polygamy was accepted, at least until the Babylonian exile.
|> # 
|> # Clayton, polygamy is culturally-blessed promiscuity.
|> 
|> Hmmm.  One man, five wives.  If all remain faithful to each other,
|> how do you spread diseases?

Hmmm. Ten men.  If all of them use condoms, how do you spread diseases?



-- 
To fathom hell, or soar angelic, take a pinch of psychedelic.
				Dr. Osmond
Xref: sparky ca.politics:7657 talk.politics.misc:44921
From: rchilder@us.oracle.com (Richard Childers)
Newsgroups: ca.politics,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Picking and Choosing our References
Date: 11 Sep 92 21:16:16 GMT
Organization: Memes-R-Us
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:

>-- but then again, the homosexual community has already demonstrated that
>"faithful to each other" doesn't work.

This doesn't apply to the hetero community ?

>A lot of homosexuals insist that it is impossible to do anyway.

This doesn't apply to the hetero community ?

-- richard

-- 
=====
-- richard childers		rchilder@us.oracle.com		1 415 506 2411
         oracle data center  --  unix systems & network administration
                    Klein flask for rent. Inquire within.
Newsgroups: ca.politics,talk.politics.misc,ba.politics
From: aap@wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo Pinkas)
Subject: Re: Picking and Choosing our References
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 22:04:27 GMT

In article <1992Sep10.203633.10831@oracle.us.oracle.com> rchilder@us.oracle.com (Richard Childers) writes:
>cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
>
>>You are perfectly able to be a homosexual in private.  You don't
>>have to announce everywhere you go, and thus make it an issue to
>>employers or landlords.
>
>While this is probably the fortieth time you've seen this, I thought
>I'd say it again, in case, just maybe, this time, it sunk in.
>
>Neither should they have to keep it a secret.
>
>To keep a secret from one's friends and neighbors is to invite problems.

This comment is ridiculous. You do not keep any secret from your friends and
neighbours???

AAp


>
>But that's what you'd like, it often appears.
>
>-- richard
>
>-- 
>=====
>-- richard childers		rchilder@us.oracle.com		1 415 506 2411
>         oracle data center  --  unix systems & network administration
>                    Klein flask for rent. Inquire within.


Xref: sparky ca.politics:7614 talk.politics.misc:44735
From: tucker@shiva.edsg.hac.com (George Tucker)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: War on Drugs
Date: 16 Sep 92 00:13:56 GMT
Reply-To: tucker@shiva.UUCP (George Tucker)
Distribution: ca
Organization: Hughes Aircraft Co., El Segundo, CA

In article <psqlj9o@fido.asd.sgi.com> dauber@sgi.com (Jeff Dauber) writes:
>You are not even close... Street price of marijuana is closer to $400-$500/oz 
>at this point...
>
>This is why I thought a 100% tax would still make it cheaper...

That's absurd.  No wonder people are planting it.  What do the seeds cost?

Then 500% tax would probably be appropriate since the dried leaves should
cost <$1/oz. to produce and retail in secure packaging for around $2-4
before tax.  And I thought whole peppermint leaves were expensive!
500% would pay for a lot of education and treatment of drug addictions
(alcohol, etc.) as well as tax stamp enforcement and quality control
and the usual price supports and subsidies.

	 George Tucker        tucker@tcville.hac.com
GM Executive (paraphrased): Expanding Saturn production is not appropriate.
	As those buyers mature, they will move up to traditional GM models.
Too many Quayludes.
Newsgroups: ca.politics
From: GA.JRG@forsythe.stanford.edu (June Genis)
Subject: Hershensohn: Hoist with his own petard
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 23:18:12 GMT

I'm just back from the "statewide forum" of United We Stand America,
the successor organization to the California Perot Petition Drive
Committee where I and many other third party candidates were invited
to share our positions with the delegates.

I appeared on a panel with Genevieve Torres, the Peace and Freedom
Candidate, and John Cortez, an independent running a write-in
campaign. Barbara Boxer declined to show up.  Bruce Herschensohn
was there too but he REFUSED to appear on the same panel with the
rest of us.  Instead he manipulated the organizers of the convention
into putting him on by himself with not one, but two warm up
introducers.

I don't know what Bruce thought he was going to get out of pulling a
stunt like that but it clearly backfired.  There were numerous
comments not only from the panel but from members of the audience
to the effect that they did not care for Mr. H's grandstanding.

This was first time I'd had a chance to meet Genevieve Torres.  We
have agreed to work together to protest the exclusion of third party
candidates from the fall debates.  I invite you to join both of us
outside the San Francisco Hilton on Monday evening, September 21st.
For further information please call my state headquarters at
1-800-894-JUNE.

/June
From: athos@apple.com (Rick Eames)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: HERSCHENSOHN: Flat Rate Tax (Q&A)
Date: 14 Sep 92 16:52:18 GMT
Followup-To: ca.politics
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.

In article <38020@sdcc12.ucsd.edu>, jlodman@cs.ucsd.edu (Michael Lodman)
wrote:

> This an emotional argument, not an economic argument nor one even remotely
> rational. It is designed to emote images of old peasants toiling in
> the field, being robbed of everything they own. This is not reality.

That's because that is who it hurts, fella.
 
> In reality, whenever money changes hands, the government
> gets a cut. There is really no practical difference between
> inheritance, gifts, or income IMHO. Now, you can argue that the
> government _shouldn't_ have its hand out whenever money changes
> hands, and I might even agree with you. I don't believe in these special
> cases being treated any differently, such as gifts or inheritance or
> game show winnings or a bag of money falling out of the sky and landing
> on me. Economic rape it is not to tax income based on any of these things.

Money that is *earned* through your work is what should be taxed.  Period. 
Money for services rendered should be taxed.  Period.  Other monies, such
as gifts, dividends and such are not *income* and therefore should not be
taxed.
 
The amendment that gave congress the power to tax any money was the worst
thing possible.  It used to be based on property and import fees.  Then a
whole group of people (Democrats probably) decided that the Federal
Government needed more money so they could spread the wealth around more. 
It hasn't worked yet, and government has grown because of it.

> While Boxer doesn't know the value of a dollar, Herschenson doesn't
> know the value of anything else. Say no to both of them and vote
> for June Genis.

I love you arguments here.  You provide none.  Explain to me this part of
your statement: "Herschenson doesn't know of the value of anything else.

--
Rick Eames                               My Opinions Are My Own (not
Apple's)
athos@apple.com

HERSCHENSOHN for US Senate.  Just say "No" to Barbara Boxer.
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: PLEASE VOTE!!! (Clayton flame)
From: mike@batpad.lgb.ca.us (mike batchelor)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 04:47:28 PDT
Distribution: world               
Organization: The Batchelor Pad

cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
>
> In article <Bu9opG.9zy@unix.amherst.edu>, twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:
> > In article <12031@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
> > >Completely agreed.  When homosexuals stop trying to oppress straight
> > >people in places like California, maybe straight people will stop trying
> > >to oppress homosexuals in places like Oregon and Colorado.
> > 
> > Just maybe.  That's probably the mistake Martin Luther King and
> > Malcolm X made, too -- perhaps if they had just simmered down and let
> > white people live in peace, maybe, JUST MAYBE, they would have given
> > black people their rights.
> > 
> > ____ Tim Pierce                / "I don't know how much support NAMBLA
> 
> Poor analogy.  If homosexuals stopped trying to use the government
> to force straight people to accept homosexuals, there would be
> that much less argument for the passage of the Oregon and Colorado
> initiatives.  Keep in mind that it was passage of antidiscrimination
> ordinances in some Oregon cities that provoked the Oregon initiative.

The antidiscrimination ordinances applied only to a few cities, not
statewide.  The OCA and their buddies could simply have moved
somewhere else if they didn't want to associate with gays and lesbians
and people who thought the ordinances were worthwhile.  But no, the
OCA wants to use the government to force their views of where homosexuals
belong on the entire STATE, individual cities be damned.  Not only that,
they are in league with other groups that want to pass similar laws that
apply to the whole country.

> If you want freedom, you need to be willing to grant it to others.

The OCA is not interested in freedom, they are interested in oppressing
homosexuals, denying them employment, housing and the other
essentials of living, and forcing the rest of the country to do the
same by encoding this oppression at the Federal level.  They don't
want anybody to hire, rent or sell to homosexuals anywhere in the US.
They want homosexuality to be criminalized, and people who disagree are
just as "deviant" and should be subject to sanctions.  Freedom of
association applies only to them and other "normal" people; they have
said exactly this in just so many words.  They have called for a US
constitutional amendment that would criminalize homosexuality.

I am not surprised at all that you would ignore these inconvenient
facts.



[] ---
[] Mike Batchelor -- mike@batpad.lgb.ca.us
[] Long Beach, California
Xref: sparky ca.politics:7860 talk.politics.misc:45729
From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: ca.politics,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: What is "Sexual Orientation"?
Date: 15 Sep 92 20:08:18 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <mike02560920813235127@batpad.lgb.ca.us>, mike@batpad.lgb.ca.us (mike batchelor) writes:
> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
> >
> > I would be happiest of all if homosexuals stopped trying to involve
> > the government in telling consenting adults what they may do in
> > private.
> 
> Do you stay after work to read and post news?  Or do you do it on
> company time?  Just curious...
> 
> [] Mike Batchelor -- mike@batpad.lgb.ca.us

As I have said before, I get this done while waiting for compiles
to run, etc.  Right now I am running a rather elaborate test suite,
and this gives me significant chunks of time during which I have
to wait for the test to complete, but I still have to be aware 
enough to see if the test bombs in some rather spectacular way
(rebooting the machine, for example).

And yes, I sometimes stay a bit late, or even dial in from home.



-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
There can be no peace as long as AB 2601 lives.
From: pdb059@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov (Paul Bartholomew)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: Picking and Choosing our References
Date: 9 Sep 92 16:03:45 GMT
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Image Processing Lab

In article <12168@optilink.UUCP>, cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
> In article <95358@bu.edu>, kane@buast7.bu.edu (Hot Young Star) writes:
>> In article <12132@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
>> >In article <95203@bu.edu>, kane@buast7.bu.edu (Hot Young Star) writes:
> # ## Funny, he didn't mention how it was standard practice for men of Judaic
> # ## times to have not only a wife but several concubines, depending on their
> # ## wealth. Promiscuity was accepted in Judaic times.
> # 
> # #No, polygamy was accepted, at least until the Babylonian exile.
> # 
> # Clayton, polygamy is culturally-blessed promiscuity.
> 
> Hmmm.  One man, five wives.  If all remain faithful to each other,
> how do you spread diseases?

Strange, I don't remember any mention of diseases in this discussion.  I
certainly don't see it in the quoted excerpts.  Oh, this was irrelevant to
the topic?  I thought so.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Bartholomew          |   "The time has come, the walrus said, to talk of
                          |    many things..."                  Lewis Carroll
pdb059@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov   |   Disclaimer:  Opinions?  What opinions?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: athos@apple.com (Rick Eames)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: HERSCHENSOHN: Flat Rate Tax (Q&A)
Date: 13 Sep 92 08:17:07 GMT
Followup-To: ca.politics
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.

In article <37910@sdcc12.ucsd.edu>, jlodman@cs.ucsd.edu (Michael Lodman)
wrote:

> Income is income is income is income. All income, from whatever source,
> should be taxed at the same flat rate. This includes income due to 
> inheritance.

I could not disagree more with you on this one.  People save up all their
lives for their children.  It is, to me, economic *rape* to dip into that
money once that person has slipped the bonds of earth.

You people just want your hands into every pie, dontcha?  It galls you that
somewhere, someone who was really good at investing money made more in a
year than you will in your entire life.  So, since that galls you, you plan
to attack his earnings more than you attack, say, mine.

I don't believe in that, and therein lies the fundamental difference.
--
Rick Eames                               My Opinions Are My Own (not
Apple's)
athos@apple.com

HERSCHENSOHN for US Senate.  Just say "No" to Barbara Boxer.
Xref: sparky ca.politics:7544 talk.politics.misc:44357 ba.politics:5124
From: mikea@zorba.gvg.tek.com (Michael P. Anderson)
Newsgroups: ca.politics,talk.politics.misc,ba.politics
Subject: Re: Picking and Choosing our References
Date: 9 Sep 92 17:14:13 GMT
Followup-To: ca.politics
Organization: Grass Valley Group, Grass Valley, CA

In article <12167@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:

>You are perfectly able to be a homosexual in private.  You don't
>have to announce everywhere you go, and thus make it an issue to
>employers or landlords.

Typical liberal response. "Free speech is a right, as long as you don't
exercise it." How's the fit on those jackboots, fascist?
								(-:

								MPA
Newsgroups: ca.politics
From: winter@sequent.com (Robert Winter)
Subject: Where to find info?
Summary: Where to find voting info
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 23:02:19 GMT
Keywords: INFO

With the wealth of information which can be obtained on the internet is
there a source for politician voting records?  

I am looking for statistics, records, how long an incumbant has held
power for politicians all the way from senate to city governments.

Any suggestions?

Robert Winter
winter@sequent.com
anybackbone!sequent!winter
Costa Mesa, CA


Newsgroups: ca.politics,talk.politics.misc,ba.politics
From: gnn@wsl.dec.com (George Neville-Neil)
Subject: Re: Picking and Choosing our References
Organization: Western Software Lab
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 20:06:14 GMT

In article <12222@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
>I understand that many homosexuals wear wedding rings also.  And
>if I didn't wear one, no one would make any assumptions, either.
>
Your evading the point.  What does a wedding ring signify to those
who see it in this society?

>I walk around our engineering department, and there are pictures of
>men on the desks of some of the men.  But these aren't lovers (these
>are married men, with wives and children at home -- I've been to
>their homes).  In some cases, these are pictures of a camping
>trip, or white-water rafting, with their friends.  Even if they were
>single, I wouldn't make any assumptions about these being pictures
>of their lovers.
>
Silly person, you're evading the point again.

>
>Never had any of the psychotropics, sorry.
>
One would never know this from you postings.

>Yes, almost daily there are parades put on by straights in which
>child molestation advocacy groups march. :-)

Oh not at all.  Have you ever read any straight porn?  How about
going to see Lolita.  Who needs to be in a parade, the whole
culture is shot through with images of straight child molestation.




--
To fathom hell, or soar angelic, take a pinch of psychedelic.
				Dr. Osmond
Xref: sparky ca.politics:7552 talk.politics.misc:44377 ba.politics:5132
From: gnn@wsl.dec.com (George Neville-Neil)
Newsgroups: ca.politics,talk.politics.misc,ba.politics
Subject: Re: Picking and Choosing our References
Date: 9 Sep 92 18:13:20 GMT
Reply-To: gnn@wsl.dec.com (George Neville-Neil)
Organization: DEC Western Software Lab

In article <12167@optilink.UUCP>, cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
|> You are perfectly able to be a homosexual in private.  You don't
|> have to announce everywhere you go, and thus make it an issue to
|> employers or landlords.
|> 
So, you don't wear a wedding ring?  Have a picture of your wife in
your wallet?  Go to your favorite bar/hangout/coffee shop?

|> The only myths I've swallowed whole were the ones about homosexuals
|> being just like ordinary people, except for their sexual preference.
|> 

Right...  And of course all that thorazine that you swallowed as well.

|> You mean I should ignore what the homosexual community is clearly
|> broadcasting?  I should ignore you when you say that the homosexual
|> community is divided about sex with children?
|> 

Hah, it has been pointed out to you time and again that it isn't
just queers who are divided about this.  How is that new
glass roof in your home sinner?

-- 
To fathom hell, or soar angelic, take a pinch of psychedelic.
				Dr. Osmond
Xref: sparky ca.politics:7788 talk.politics.misc:45450
From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: ca.politics,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: War on Drugs
Date: 14 Sep 92 23:15:18 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <1992Sep12.151044.9683@nntp.hut.fi>, jkp@cs.HUT.FI (Jyrki Kuoppala) writes:
> In article <12255@optilink.UUCP>, cramer@optilink (Clayton Cramer) writes:
> >But drug abuse causes social costs and suffering to many people
> >in our society, therefore it is the government's business.
> 
> It doesn't cause nearly as much as the prohibition.  And also things
> like love, eating too much meat, farting, snoring etc. cause social
> costs and suffering to many people in society, is it thus the
> government's business to control all of them?

I guess I need to put the :-) on this posting.   I thought I was
making it clear that the same arguments are used to justify the
War on Drugs and Civil Liberties that are being used by the homosexual
fascist lobby.

> //Jyrki


-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
Alcohol prohibition didn't work; drug prohibition doesn't work; gun
prohibition won't work.
From: rsopicki@pro-amber.cts.com (Randy Sopicki)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: test
Date: 5 Sep 92 17:46:08 GMT
Organization: ProLine [pro-amber] -- Spring Valley, Ca

endaround
Newsgroups: ca.politics,talk.politics.misc
From: jkp@cs.HUT.FI (Jyrki Kuoppala)
Subject: Re: War on Drugs
Reply-To: jkp@cs.HUT.FI (Jyrki Kuoppala)
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 15:10:44 GMT

In article <12255@optilink.UUCP>, cramer@optilink (Clayton Cramer) writes:
>But drug abuse causes social costs and suffering to many people
>in our society, therefore it is the government's business.

It doesn't cause nearly as much as the prohibition.  And also things
like love, eating too much meat, farting, snoring etc. cause social
costs and suffering to many people in society, is it thus the
government's business to control all of them?

>The War on Drugs and the homosexual fascist lobby are exactly
>the same mentality.

I have no idea what, if any, is "the homosexual fascist lobby", so I
refrain from commenting on that.  Is it a room for people working for
the U.S. government who also happen to be homosexual, or something?
Nah, don't think I'm interested in any case.

//Jyrki
From: jlodman@cs.ucsd.edu (Michael Lodman)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: Herschensohn response to Genis
Date: 15 Sep 92 04:46:38 GMT
Organization: CSE Department, UC San Diego

In article <athos-140992162324@kip2-7.apple.com> athos@apple.com (Rick Eames) writes:
>* Bruce was specifially invited to speak separately.
>* Bruce was not informed about the second panel until
>  about 2 hours before the event.
>* Bruce's schedule on Sunday did not allow for him to
>  participate in the panel discussion.

 *Bruce's tire was flat.
 *Bruce ran out of gas.
 *His alarm didn't go off.
 *There was an earthquake!
 *A tidal wave!
 *A Hurricane!
 *It's not his fault!!!

>In addition, they wanted me to let you know that Herschensohn picked up
>some key endorsments from top Perot people and that there was a good
>reaction to his comments.

What's a "top Perot people"? Someone who was especially suckered
by the old boy from Texas? Maybe Steve Tice or Stratocaster was there?

-- 
Michael Lodman	Department of Computer Science Engineering
	University of California, San Diego
jlodman@cs.ucsd.edu		      (619) 455-1500 x2627
From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: Hot Young Neutron Star
Date: 15 Sep 92 20:09:52 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <1992Sep15.004625.29151@gordian.com>, mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas) writes:
> In article <mike02442920801200107@batpad.lgb.ca.us>, mike@batpad.lgb.ca.us (mike batchelor) writes:
> > cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
> 
> > We should start calling you Hot Young Neutron Star.  I've never
> > encountered anything as dense.

Just to be clear: I don't post this remark about Hot Young Neutron
Star.
> 
> 		Michael Thomas	(mike@gordian.com)


-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
There can be no peace as long as AB 2601 lives.
From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: Picking and Choosing our References
Date: 10 Sep 92 16:21:27 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <5177@gold.gvg.tek.com>, mikea@zorba.gvg.tek.com (Michael P. Anderson) writes:
> In article <12167@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
# #You are perfectly able to be a homosexual in private.  You don't
# #have to announce everywhere you go, and thus make it an issue to
# #employers or landlords.
# 
# Typical liberal response. "Free speech is a right, as long as you don't
# exercise it." How's the fit on those jackboots, fascist?
# 								(-:
# 
# 								MPA

You can exercise it all you want, but that doesn't mean that everyone
has to love you when you spout fascist nonsense, as MPA does quite
regularly.

-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
Alcohol prohibition didn't work; drug prohibition doesn't work; gun
prohibition won't work.
Newsgroups: ca.politics