From: distef@carson.u.washington.edu (Sandra Distefano)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Bernie Siegel & Cancer
Date: 16 Oct 92 21:43:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Oct16.214341.28179
Organization: University of Washington

RGINZBERG@eagle.wesleyan.edu (Ruth Ginzberg) writes:

>In <2JTPsB3w165w@sound.cts.com> markr@sound.cts.com writes:
>> 
>> Bernie talks about asking your self "Why do I need this desease". After
>> thinking about this, and finally telling myself that I don't need, I
>> started to improve. It is now finally gone, 

>Now, I don't mean to start a flame war here; <insert favorite higher power>
>knows, we have enough of them in sci.med already.  But I think the sort of
>belief you are espousing has very, very seriously damaging physical,
>psychological, and social consequences if widely adopted, so I wanted to
>object.

>What's more, (proponants of holistic health, take note please before composing
>flames:) as a philosopher, I am QUITE aware that naive mind-body dualism has
>just as many pitfalls as naive holism.  But naive psychologism (attributing all
>bodily ills to mental states) is just as stupid as naive physicalism
>(attributing all mental/emotional/spiritual states to physical causes ONLY).

I am an athiest and I am not a proponant of holistic medicine, but I
KNOW that the knowledge western doctors have is very limited.  They have
a lot of technology but they do not know everything.  Therefore, neither
you nor I nor the brightest doctors in this country know the full
extent of way our bodies and minds work together.

>CLEARLY mind & body (if one wants even to speak of them as two entities) affect
>each other in intimate ways. [EX1:  You can (mentally) DECIDE to raise your left
>hand, and that mental act can cause you, physically, to do it;  EX2: physical
>states (like being sleep-deprived or hungry) can cause you MENTALLY to *desire*
>sleep, food, or whatever.]  

How about the yogis who can (with a form of bio-feedback) change their
blood pressure, pulse, and several other autonomic bodily functions?  They are
not Yuri Gellers, they have a very fine control over their bodies.

>Clearly, also, psychological well-being improves
>one's subjective experience of physical misery.  Clearly, too, physical
>well-being improves one's psychological/mental/spiritual state.  I also FULLY
>believe the various studies that show that (e.g.) happy people's wounds heal
>faster, people whose psyches are thriving catch fewer viral or bacterial
>infections than people whose psyches are beleaguered, etc., etc., etc.  But 
>extrapolating these results to form a belief in the possibility of healing
>physical disease through act of will ... no.

Why not?  Those same researchers you believe above have also shown
that your immune system can be affected by your mental state.  If you
could bolster your immune system, you could heal physical disease.  
Why can't it follow that if humans can learn to control
their autonomic nervous system at will (change their blood pressure, etc)
they couldn't learn to control or at least affect their
immune system.  I'm not saying that it necessarily does follow, 
but I'm not discounting the possibility.

>------------------------
>Ruth Ginzberg <rginzberg@eagle.wesleyan.edu>
>Philosophy Department;Wesleyan University;USA

Sandra
distef@u.washinton.edu