HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bradk%isdgsm@RTSG.MOT.COM ((Brad Kaiser))
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: CHRIST, NOT PURGATORY
Date: 5 Nov 92 22:47:55 GMT
Reply-To: bradk@isdgsm.rtsg.mot.com
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              Nov 5, 92 3:52 pm

Jesse writes:

> OK, why does Salvation   N E C E S S A R I L Y   HAVE to have conditions?
> Why not another option like  :
>
>
>         "F R E E    A N D    S O V E R E I G N     G R A C E"      ???

Why indeed ...

Here are some conditions on salvation:

   Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of
   heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven.
               -- Mt 7:21

   Amen, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you
   will not enter the kingdom of heaven.
               -- Mt 18:3

   Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without
   being born from above.
               -- Jn 3:3

   Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat of the flesh of the Son of
   Man and drink His blood, you do not have life within you.  Whoever
   eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise
   him on the last day.
               -- Jn 6:53

The question is *NOT* whether there are preconditions for salvation, but
rather

   1. What are they?

   2. Who accomplishes them in us?

   3. Do our wills cooperate in some sense with that process;
      if so, how?

Catholics and Calvinists disagree on #1 and #3.  We agree utterly that
the answer to #2 is ... Almighty God, may His Name be praised forever!

So you see, Jesse, it is really you who are begging the question, not
Steve.

In Christ's Peace,

Brad Kaiser
(bradk%isdgsm@rtsg.mot.com)

	  Those who trust in Him shall understand truth,
	  and the faithful shall abide with Him in love;
	  Because grace and mercy are with His holy ones,
	  and His care is with His elect.
		    -- Wis 3:9 [NAB]
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Date:         Sun, 8 Nov 1992 02:49:44 EST
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From:         Angela Zimmerman <AMZIMM01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU>
Subject:      Christian Attitudes About Cannibalism

Item Retrieval Assistant, DADS
Phone: 588-6757

I think that logically, cannibalism is a practical thing to do as a last
resort, but I don't think I could actually go through with it.  I can't
even eat big furry animals with brown eyes, much less mom!  :-

Someone said that cannibalism is taboo in all societies, that all reports
of cannibalism were second-hand.  I read in my Anthropology book about
a disease that affected mainly the women and children of a tribe (not
sure where).  It was later linked to the eating of diseased human brains,
and the women and children of the tribe were the only ones partaking of
this particular, uh, delicasy.
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Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 09:22:08 CST
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From:         JLong <JLONG@UA1VM.BITNET>
Subject:      Prayer Request

Dear Lord,
We come to you in behalf of Cindy's mother.  Lord you know  her condition
and her needs.  Lord we ask that you guide the doctors hands and show them
what to do.  Because Lord we know that you gave them there talents.  Lord
we ask that you bless Cindy in a special way and let her know that she can
depend on you.  Lord you hold all power in your hands.  These and other
blessings we ask in your son Jesus name. Amen

God Bless You Cindy!!! And I will continue to pray for you and your mother!!!

Janie Long at UA1VM
University of Alabama Library.
Organization: Emory University - Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 6 Nov 1992 07:20:11 EST
From:         "SHELBY A. CROSS" <LIBSAC@EMUVM1.BITNET>
Subject:      Reply-My Election Results-Bill

Dear Bill,

Remember when you asked us to pray that God's will be done in this situa-
tion and you  said that you would  accept the results. Only  God can open
a door that  no man can shut and  close a door that no man  can open. For
whatever reason the door  is shut, but like it says  in Romans 8:28 (NIV)
"And we know that in all things God  works for the good of those who love
Him,  who have  been called  according to  His purpose."  The Lord  works
everything out  for us. When we  moved to Atlanta, we  lost everything in
1990; however, material wise one could say we had failed, but spiritually
God has taught  us and brought us a  long ways. He also is  using us more
than in the  past. He has opened up  ways for us to minister  as a family
and has brought  us closer together. If  you had talked to me  in 1990, I
probably would have responded  just like you, but now that  I see the big
picture, I  can see God's  hand in  everything that had  transpired since
1990.

This taught  me to  trust in  the Lord no  matter what  the circumstances
looks  like in  the  natural. Rejoice  and be  exceedingly  glad. God  is
on the  throne. When you  have done  all you can  do just stand  and wait
on the  Lord. Always  rely on  Him. You  feel awkward  now, but  begin to
praise  Him and  start to  let  Him use  you  to minister  to others.  We
have  to know  that  we know  that  we know  we trust  God  even when  we
sometimes can't  put the puzzle  together in our  minds; His ways  are so
far above our ways.

Praise Him  Bill, and  let God continue  to lead you  and guide  you, and
He will  reveal the next  step you should  take. Remember let  God's will
be  done. Christ  had to  say that  even when  He asked  that the  cup be
taken away  from Him  in Gethsemene,  but what a  victory. We  could have
said that  the cross  was a  mistake at the  time, but  later we  can see
the big picture.  Be encouraged to go on with the Lord Bill.

Dear Heavenly Father,

Let  Bill know  that  we all  have stood  in  similar circumstances,  but
every time  you have brought  us through. Let  him trust you  know matter
when he can  see or have to walk  by faith, not by sight.  Give Him peace
to let Him rest in your wisdom and  rest in the fact that You have every-
thing under  control and  at hand. As  he begins to  praise and  trust in
You  Lord, give  him your  joy,  love, and  peace  in the  midst of  this
frustrating time  in his life.  We give this to  You and we  receive what
you have for Bill. In Jesus Name we pray.  Amen.

Your sister in Christ,

Shelby--
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Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 12:05:52 -0500
From:         Eric James Ewanco <ewanco@MLO.DEC.COM>
Subject:      Re: Silence not = condone.

Excerpts from christia: 10-Nov-92 Silence not = condone.
"DRCV06::GRAHAM"@DRCVAX. (1254)

MAKS, (could you please use your real name)

Check out the From: line.  Michael A. Kline (don't know where the S
comes from).

> We do not see the New Testament writers urging social action or
> assertion of rights nor do we see them decrying the ills of their
> society, we see them urging the proclaimation of the gospel, only that.
> (Not to mention loving one another.)

Hmmm.  I see at most two verses which relate to evangelism, but more of
verses like the following:

"Come,  you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the
kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.   For I was
hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me
something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed
clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in
pirson and you came to visit me. . .  I tell you the truth, whatever you
did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me."
(Matthew 25:34-36,40)

"If you wish to be perfect, sell all you have and give the money to the poor."

"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God."
(Matthew 5:9)

"... When you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what
your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret."
(Matthew 6:3)

"Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to
look after orphans and windows in their distress and to keep oneself
from being polluted by the world."  (James 1:27)

"Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food.  If one
of you says to him, 'Go, I wish youwell; keep warm and well fed,' but
does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it?"  (James 2:15-16)

Mark also the ministry to widows and the poor in Acts.

You ought to study the life of St. Francis of Assisi.  Do you really
think that the Gospel calls us only to evangelize, and not to feed the
hungry, visit the sick, clothe the naked, provide for the widows, take
care of the orphans, and so forth? How often did Jesus speak of the poor?

Eric
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Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 11:16:00 EST
From:         MSIMMON1@ITHACA.BITNET
Subject:      Re: comment on military

The military in the 70's and the military in the 90's are two entirely
different creatures.  Having grown up in the military, I can not support any
of the arguments I have heard.  The military in Germany - at least the
Army, was kept in line, and incidents with all these sins were confined to
a select few who were dealt with SEVERELY - I know, because my father has
been an MP for the last 21 years - not an NCO, but and Officer - in charge
of everyone and everyone accountable to him.  All I can say is that the
military of the past and the military in the Pacific are far different and
alien to my experiences.  MCS-IC  (please respond privately as I am going
NOMAIL for a while to get work done)
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Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 12:46:00 CDT
From:         "Love does not subtract, it multiplies." <HOLZMAN@FNAL.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Freedon of speech.

<Also, if we don't say we don't like things like "One flew over the
<Cuckoo's nest." because it shows gang rape, then by our silence, we
<condone it. What ever happened to Romeo and Juliet or A Tale of Two
<Cities? I know, no sex, no gang rapes. Why should the book be required?
<That's what the question was. Maybe it was somewhat related, and if a
<student found it objectionable, then an alternate should be allowed.

What?  _Romeo and Juliet_ in the schools?  That promoter of rebellion against
parents (in direct violation of the Ten Commandments), premarital sex, and
teenage suicide (just how many teen suicides got the idea from reading Romeo
and Juliet, anyway?)

And _A Tale of Two Cities_?  With all it's violence and immoral characters?
Bearings of false witness?  What kind of example for our kids is *that*?

Of course, anyone who knows me will realize that I am *not* seriously bringing
up these objections to these great works -- but others have.  The answer to
them is that the worls are great literature, not moral instruction.  The same,
some would argue, holds true for books such as _One Flew Over the Cuckoo's
Nest_.  You can debate whether or not the book is on par with other great works
as far as literary quality is concerned, but if it is to be rejected on moral
grounds, then much of what we call great literature will have to go with it.


Dan
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Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 14:07:19 CST
From:         Jesse Carnes <NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Whose will is dominant?
              11 Nov 1992 13:55:00 EST from <GRAHAM%DRCV06.decnet@DRCVAX.AF.MIL>

Further question on the will of man thread :

"Does God ever make anything POSSIBLE or does He actually accomplish what
He desires to?"

This idea of Christ making salvation "possible" is not worthy of a Saviour
like ours, and is a slap in the face of a God who is SOVEREIGN.
Good Heavens, where will it all END?

Why don't we just fall down and worship MAN.  Yikes!!


Jesse Carnes
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Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1992 11:18:53 CST
From:         "St. Jesso" <NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Whose will is dominant?
              12 Nov 1992 11:39:15 -0500 from <ewanco@MLO.DEC.COM>

Dear Eric ;

We can choose to do the following as unsaved creatures :

1) nice things

2) cute things

3) sweet things

4) "good" things


However, what God demands in none of the above in order to be fit for Heaven
and His Eternal presence.  He demands :


      P  E  R  F  E  C  T       R  I  G  H  T  E  O  U  S  N  E  S  S





Relative goodness, cuteness, sweetness, niceness is not in the BIBLICAL
criterion for entrance into Heaven.  We must be perfect as to obeying all
of God's moral precepts ... there cannot be ONE foulup.


Jesse Carnes
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
From: billc@housing.msstate.edu (Bill Chapman)
Subject: Prayer request follow-up.
Organization: Housing Department, Mississippi State University
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 23:29:04 GMT

Thank you all who were praying for my family during this time of my step-
father's death and funeral.  God has granted travelling mercies and shown 
so much love through friends, neighbors, and family in Atlanta, and also 
through many of you whose notes and messages cheered my heart.

There are so many details and expenses involved in what one would expect to 
be such a simple thing.  Please keep praying for my Mom and those who stayed 
behind to help her through this lonely transition.

--
Bill Chapman, Box 1262, Mississippi State, MS  39762
<BillC@Housing.MSState.edu>           (601) 325-2042
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Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 16:31:00 CDT
From:         "Love does not subtract, it multiplies." <HOLZMAN@FNAL.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: A Vote For Morality

<humour, decided to bestow on you, you might realise that the reason that
<so many homosexuals commit suicide is that throughout their whole life
<people like you persecute and mock them. Most people can only stand so much.

I might just be tooting my own horn, but I think I proved that it was able to
raise precisely this point without resorting to a torrent of verbal abuse.

I've know scumbags in my day, and Michael Klein isn't one of them, despite our
differences.

Do come back when you've grown some.

Dan
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Date:         Fri, 6 Nov 1992 10:41:50 CST
Comments:     Answering received message
From:         THERESA BLACKWELL <TBLACKWL@USMCP6.BITNET>
Subject:      Bingo, Ian!!! (...and the crowd goes wild....)

I think your post about Christ's baptism makes lots of sense.
He was perfect, and in his perfection, sought a way to give us
something we didn't deserve...(eternal life...) HE bacame sin for us
on Calvary....
Due to a task of that magnitude, I feel like the Heavenly Father knew
what his Son was about to undertake.

 * <TBLACKWL@USMCP6.BITNET>
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Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 11:03:25 CST
From:         Yvette Traylor <YST1@DCCCDBIT.BITNET>
Subject:      Silence not = condone.

Dan said
>  No, silence means nothing more                                       e
> than you don't want to tackle that particular subject, or it means you are
> are wise enough to keep your mouth shut.
>
  Fellow Christians, if it is anything that I have learned in my 12     d a
  years of being a Born Again Christian is that this statement is
  very true. It takes alot of wisdom to not talk about something and it om
  takes even more to keep our mouths shut. There is Earthly wisdom and  tom
  their is Godly wisdom, learning to differeniate between the two would tom
  help each of us learn when to speak (type) and when not to (type).

> Things like the American Center for Law and Justice and the Christian
> Coalition are an aggregis affront to the honor and name of Christ.
>
  Now could someone tell me what aggregis mean?

   Yvette Traylor     "We are His people and the sheep of his pasture."
   Dallas County Community College District             Psalm 100:3
   Computer Programmer/Analyst from Dallas - Texas
"I know worse things about myself that you will ever say about me." Anon
From: NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET (Jesse Carnes)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: The unpardonable sin
Date: 12 Nov 92 15:17:48 GMT
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Dear Bernice ;

Jesus, Himself, defined the "Unpardonable Sin"when the Pharisees were
jealous of Christ's position, and saw Him as a REAL threat to their scam.
They accused WILLFULLY, not accidentally, Jesus of working through the devil.
Obviously they saw that His works were not of the devil, but their jealous
hearts moved them to deny the truth and they spoke EVIL of the Spirit of God
with WILLFUL intent.  This is why Jesus said that if they spoke evil of Christ
they could be FORGIVEN, but if they spoke against the Spirit -- which they
did -- then they could NEVER be forgiven.


Jesse Carnes
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Original_To:  CHRISTIA
Original_cc:  HUTTER
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1992 14:19:00 N
From:         Wolfgang Hutter <HUTTER@DULRUU51.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: The Trinity

In a message of Wed, 11 Nov 1992 11:31:26 EDT
Received on Wed, 11 Nov 92 17:58 N
Roger A. Phyall <ROGER@TEMPLEVM.BITNET> wrote:

> But when we follow the little boy Jesus, where is
> the evidence of the presence of the Holy Spirit at that time in the earthly
> life of Christ?

How about twelve year old Jesus in the temple?

> And I furthur contend that
> this was the introduction of the Holy Spirit into the Trinity.

What do you mean by "introduction"? If the Holy Spirit is God the He is
eternal and has been "part" of the Trinity forever. I can't think of
"introduction" into a deity.

> If there be
> earlier accounts in the Scriptures please so inform me & edify me.

What are you looking for? The Holy Spirit is present in the whole of the
OT from the creation until the last prophets.

O.K. one passage cited for edification. :-)

GEN 1:2  And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was
 upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the
 face of the waters.

Wolfgang <><
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Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1992 09:53:37 EST
From:         SSAUDER@WCU.BITNET
Subject:      Roger,
              did you see my test posting? How about the one for the WIndows
              Journal?

 I'm trying to get this to work right... Sorry for the bandwidth.

 Sam
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
From: billc@housing.msstate.edu (Bill Chapman)
Subject: Re: Woman
Organization: Housing Department, Mississippi State University
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 16:59:32 GMT

In article <CHRISTIA%92110413054935@ASUACAD.BITNET> CCCHRIS@MIZZOU1.BITNET writes:
>Date:         Wed, 4 Nov 1992 13:59:05 CST
>From:         CCCHRIS@MIZZOU1.BITNET
>
>The first woman was created from the rib of a man.
>She was not made from his head to top him,
>Nor from his feet to be trampled upon by him,
>But out of his side, to be equal to him,
>Under his arm, to be protected,
>And near his heart, to be loved.  

>(author unknown)

I don't know if it was original with him, but those ideas are in Matthew 
Henry's commentary on Genesis.



--
Bill Chapman, Box 1262, Mississippi State, MS  39762
<BillC@Housing.MSState.edu>           (601) 325-2042
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Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1992 08:17:17 EST
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From:         Angela Zimmerman <AMZIMM01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU>
Subject:      Banning the Bible

Item Retrieval Assistant, DADS
Phone: 588-6757


>>Careful. The Bible contains war, adultery, attempted gang-rape, actual
>>rape, demons, all sorts of things. Just because a book mentions something
>>doesn't mean it approves it; I'm pretty sure "One Flew Over The Cuckoo's
>>Nest" is not advocating any of the things you describe.
>>
>Yes. Did you then hear there is an atheist trying to have the Bible removed
>from the school library for these very reasons? He is trying to get the
>Bible "X rated" so that it will have to be removed from all children.


Sounds like Christians who try to get other holy books removed from school
libraries (I think some have even succeeded in banning some other religious
books because they were "unChristian").  I think that book banning
*period* is wrong, no matter what the reason.  If a school wants to put
the Satanic bible in the library, they should be allowed to (although I
can't see too many parents, parents who fund the school, no less, going
for that one).
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
From: jlaplant@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John R Laplante)
Subject: Re: New World Order?
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 00:00:36 GMT

In article <09NOV92.15029245.0024.MUSIC@DCCCDBIT> Yvette Traylor <YST1@DCCCDBIT.BITNET> writes:
>Does anyone out there know what the 'New World Order' stands for or what
>it is all about?

As has been pointed out, it is Bush-speak, and I'm not sure what he means.

However, I'm sure that some conspiracy/end-times/prophecy-minded christians
have seen this as a sure sign that the anti-christ is coming soon. 
Even though I interpret Revelation in the future, I am quite skeptical 
as to the ability to interpret political events. My pastor gave a sermon
a few months ago about some world federalist group (such groups have existed
for at least 100 years, I'd guess). The undiscerning listener could get the
idea that this group was going to usher in the antichrist, rather than
one man's speculation. If I had been an unbeliever, I would have beenn
turned off to christianity by such conspiracy theory speculation.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
john r la plante                    graduate student, Ohio State University
jrl+@osu.edu                        political analysis done while you wait
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Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1992 07:15:59 CST
From:         Jesse Carnes <NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Note to Stephen Kingston

Dear Stephen ;

Sorry 'bout the public post, but was it you that mentioned the 2 year intern
post in Wales?

If so, I must say "thanks, anyway", for what I am interested in is to be able
to work permanently in the UK in church work.
I am an accomplished pianist and singer, can direct music, write music and
enjoy preaching/teaching the very best.
So, if I ever had the opportunity to come to the UK to work in local church
work, I would plan to stay for good.

I have a great affinity with the UK, actually though my dad's people are in
Scotland (Cairns').
No matter.
It is not as if I would "die" if I could not come over, but my heart is much
closer to the UK than to the States.
All I hope is that the Lord may someday open the opportunity for me to come
over and stay and work in church work.


In Christ ;

Jesse Irwin Carnes
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Date:         Sun, 8 Nov 1992 17:14:21 CST
Comments:     Answering received message
From:         THERESA BLACKWELL <TBLACKWL@USMCP6.BITNET>
Subject:      THANK YOU!

.... NUFF SAID.
GOD BLESS....
Me.

 * <TBLACKWL@USMCP6.BITNET>
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