HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mhopper@emperor.gatech.edu (Michael A. Hopper)
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.percussion
Subject: Re: Okay, how do you tune?
Date: 6 Jan 93 23:02:48 GMT
Organization: Computer Engineering Research Lab, Georgia Tech.

In article <ui3dpso@zola.esd.sgi.com> cook@bebop.esd.sgi.com (Doug Cook) writes:
>
>In article <79264@hydra.gatech.EDU>, mhopper@emperor.gatech.edu writes:
>> Other Notes:
>> 	The selection of drum heads is the most important influence on the
>> 	texture of the drum sound.  Use thinner heads (such as pinstripe) 
>> 	for a traditional, timbale type sound and thicker heads (such as Evans)
>> 	for a thunderous hard rock sound.  I recommend thin heads on small toms
>> 	(6", 8", 10") and thick heads on larger toms (12", 14", 16", 18").
>> 	There are dozens of heads out there to try and the differences
>> 	are hard to explain.  You just have to hear them.
>> 
>> 	Oil filled heads don't ring as much and don't need damping.
>> 	Black dot heads give a punchier attack.
>> 	Pinstripe and silver dot heads sound good tuned very tight.
>
>Pinstripe heads are actually pretty thick. I believe the clear
>ambassadors, coated ambassadors, and emperors are all thinner (
>the ambassadors are thinner than the emperors, and the clear heads
>tend to be a little more sensitive than the coated ones).
>
>	-Doug
>

I agree with Doug's comments.  I prefer not to get heads that are too thin
as I'm one of the obnoxious drummers who seems to always hit the drums very
hard.  If the heads are too thin, I leave dents in the heads and they don't
survive very long.

By the way, I have an acoustic and an electronic drum set.  I enjoy playing
acoustic, but my neighbors don't.  The electronic set has two advantages:

		1.  Volume control.
		2.  Tuning is a snap (the work was done for me when
		    the drum sounds were sampled).  They sound great!

-Mike


-- 
| mhopper@cerl.gatech.edu |   ' ) ) ) o  /_       ' )  /   ROLL TIDE !!!
| Office: CRB 388         |    / / / /  /\_) __    /__/______   _   __  __
| Phone: (404) 894-9111   |   / / (_/\_/  \_/_/_  /  / (_) /_)_/_)_/_/_/ (_
| Home:  (404) 723-1718   | ALABAMA: 1993 Nat'l Champs    /   / how Sweet it is!
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.percussion
From: dlg1@quads.uchicago.edu (deborah lynn gillaspie)
Subject: Re: "My first set," sort of... ideas? (LONG)
Reply-To: dlg1@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 22:09:46 GMT

Many thanks to all those who have replied to my question, both by e-mail
and on the net. The info about cymbals was particularly useful, as
were comments on tuning and drum sizes for different sizes of ensemble
work (which are academic at the moment, as nobody asks beginners to
play...<grin>) You guys are the best!

Also, re hand drumming, I just heard Miles Davis' Get Up With It album
(on vinyl, no idea whether it's on CD yet.) There's some TERRIFIC conga
and tabla work on it. If I can find the album cover, I'll post who's
playing; my husband squirreled it away in a safe place, I suspect to keep
me from wearing it out!<g> --Debbie
 


-- 
Internet:         dlg1@midway.uchicago.edu
Bitnet:           dlg1%midway@uchicago
  
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.percussion
From: goose@ais.org (Christopher L. Goosman)
Subject: Re: Flame bait ? Oil in drum heads.
Organization: UMCC
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 03:19:25 GMT

hamm@weejordy.physics.mun.ca (Craig Hamm (Evil Spock)) writes:
>	Well, flame me if you can convince me that pinstripe heads
>	(aka oilskins ?) actually have oil in them, but I don't 
>	believe it.  

Well, I've broken enough of the Remo Pinstripes on my marching snare when I
was in high school to know that they do not contain oil. *HOWEVER* Evans
Hydraulic heads are exactly that Hydraulic, i.e. Oil Filled. Take a look at
one of these, you can squish the oil around with your fingers.

>	I contend that these drum heads do NOT contain oil. 
>	Send me the documentation, or broken drum head to prove me wrong!!
>	Live to Flame, Flame to Live.

Well, the temptation is good.........nahhhhhhh.

-- 
Christopher L. Goosman                                   goose@irie.ais.org
Ann Arbor, MI USA                     University of Michigan Computing Club
     "The fools only laugh 'cause they envy you." -- Paul Weller, 1977
"You remember when?Yeah,so do I.They call those the Salad Days"Minor Threat
From: rmascaro@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Robert Mascaro)
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.percussion
Subject: Heads up
Date: 8 Jan 1993 11:18:07 +0800
Organization: The University of Western Australia
NNTP-Posting-Host: uniwa.uwa.edu.au
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

Could someone please pass me some info on Dave Weckl's new release Heads
Up. Is it good (better then Masterplan??) ?? What Muso's are playing
with him?? etc.
Also What is Chick Corea's new release??, is it good (how does it rate
with Eye of the beholder and Inside out)?? Is he still playing with the
same guys.

Regards,
Rob.

Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.percussion
From: WEBBG@wsuvm1.csc.wsu.edu
Subject: Re: Flame bait ?  Oil in drum heads.
Organization: SYSTEMS & COMPUTING
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 93 09:14:40 PST

In article <C0HoFJ.7EM@news.ucs.mun.ca>
hamm@weejordy.physics.mun.ca (Craig Hamm (Evil Spock)) writes:
 
>
>        I have never heard of the Evans heads, the hydraulic heads, but I
>        learn something new every now and again!
>
>        Otherwise, my arguments should hold up.
>
>        When were the hydraulic heads first made ?  They MUST be heavy!!
>        (and $$$$)
>
>--
>  Craig Hamm, Memorial University,|
>  Newfoundland, Ocean Acoustics   |
>  Canada                          |
>  ________________________________|
>
 
I use the Evans Hydraulics on my kit and I love them.  They are great for
studio use and when your drums are miced, but they don't have enough attack
for regular acoustic use.  For that I used the Evan Rock heads, same as the
hydraulics but without the oil.
 
Alot of people complain about the price of evans, but if you mail order them
they are often cheaper then compareable Remos.
 
 
Geoff
+--------------------------------------+--------------------------------------+
|  Geoffrey Webb  N7ZRR                |  Internet: webbg@wsuvm1.csc.wsu.edu  |
|  Systems Analyst/Programmer II       |  Bitnet:   webbg@wsuvm1              |
|  Washington State University         |  Amprnet:  n7zrr@AA7GV.##wa.ampr     |
|  Pullman WA 99163                    |  Phone:    (509) 335-4213            |
+--------------------------------------+--------------------------------------+
Xref: sparky rec.music.makers.percussion:389 rec.audio.pro:2697
From: jhenders@jonh.wimsey.bc.ca (John Henders)
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.percussion,rec.audio.pro
Distribution: world
Organization:  One of these days for sure
X-News: HERMES MMAIL 1.10 Rev. Dec 15 1992
Subject: Re: SR...not?
	<1i5unoINN8uu@network.ucsd.edu>
	<1993Jan4.233110.2713@cbnews.cb.att.com>
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1993 16:47:02 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In <1993Jan4.233110.2713@cbnews.cb.att.com> ewm@cbnews.cb.att.com
	(edward.w.mcfarland) writes:

>This thread brings up what I often run into and I'm wondering if it is just
>me or the drummers I run into...  In most clubs I've worked, with most of the
>drummers I've worked with, I rarely have to have much if any snare drum 
>reinforced because I find that drummers hit the snare too hard for the level
>that they are playing the rest of their kit at... they absolutely SMASH the
>snare to point of PAIN spl.  It sounds a little strange, depending on the
>room, to have everything coming out of the foh speakers execept the snare,
>unless you have previous rapport with the group to get 'em to modulate their
>stage volume appropriately. Perhaps a bit of delay on the whole mix to put it
>in phase with the snare sound in the room?

	It's not just you. This is a constant problem in small clubs,
especially those that don't want a loud band. It is not even, in my
experience, a matter of bad drummers, as some of the best drummers I
have worked with have vbeen loud, as well as some of the worst. Some of
the problem can be laid at the feet of club owners who refuse to put any
money into proper acoustic treatment of the stage or their room. In
terms of solutions, there are few. 
	I have found that even the best drummers, even though they try to
co-operate, cannot maintain a quiet stage volume. How many have
exoperienced a rise in volume when the band gets really cooking? It just
happens as the drummer gets into the music. 
	One way I've found to make the live sound of the snare blend in is
to use reverb, with the pan changed to give around 90% wet to dry mix,
and the snare channel punched out of the mix. Fiddle with the eq to and
from the reverb to try to fill in tone missing from the direct sound of
the stage.
	Another solution used by clubs and even bands is to have the drummer
in a 3 sided plexiglas box. It only needs to be a couple of feet high,
though I've seen them high enough to also baffle cymbal bleed.
	One other method that has worked for me is to use a towel wrapped
around the front edge of the snare drum, hanging down to the floor,
which damps a lot of the sound off the bottom of the snare from
projecting out into the club. I've alwats wanted to extend this idea
into a curved piece of plexiglas that would fit in front of the snare,
which I think would help a lot, but I haven't had the opportunity to
experiment with this idea. 3 surplus floor tom legs would be needed to
make this fit among the hardware around the drumkit.

-- 

 "If Rush fans were braindead, why are there so   Bruce Bufalini
 many people posting to alt.music.rush?"              PSU
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.percussion
From: dlg1@quads.uchicago.edu (deborah lynn gillaspie)
Subject: Re: Okay, how do you tune?
Reply-To: dlg1@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 17:17:43 GMT

For what it's worth, there is a two part article on tuning in the July and
August 1991 Modern Drummer issues. It's not the kind of basic info we're
talking about at the moment, but the results of discussions with a number
of pros about what sounds they are looking for and how they achieve them. 
The artists interviewed are: Simon Phillips, J.R. Robinson, Smitty Smith,
Kenny Aronoff, Danny Gottleib, Terry Bozzio, Larrie London, Adam Nussbaum,
Chad Wackerman, Jim Keltner, Rob Affuso, Anton Fig, Charlie Benante, Denny
Carmassi, and Denny Fongheiser in Part I (July). It's Andy Newmark, Rod
Morgenstein, Mike Baird, Greg Bissonette, Gary Husband, Eddie Bayers,
Mike Clark, Jason Bonham, Kenwood Dennard, Carl Allen, Rikki Rocket, Tris
Imobden, Johnathan Mover, and Zoro in Part II (August)

The cites are: Modern Drummer July 1991 p. 28-33 and August 1991 p. 34-38.

If you decide to get them from the library, I hope you have an easier time
than I did. I had a very unpleasant experience at Chicago Public yesterday
when I went to check the archive of back issues. It took me five moves
to find out where they were due to poor presentation of info and staff
indifference, and I'm a LIBRARIAN, so I have a pretty good idea of how
to go about looking for something. Next time I'll just pay for the back
issues, it cost me about that much in poor photocopies anyhow. --Debbie
 


-- 
Internet:         dlg1@midway.uchicago.edu
Bitnet:           dlg1%midway@uchicago
  
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.percussion
From: hamm@weejordy.physics.mun.ca (Craig Hamm (Evil Spock))
Subject: Re: Flame bait ?  Oil in drum heads.
Organization: Ocean Sciences Centre
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 15:02:06 GMT

	I have never heard of the Evans heads, the hydraulic heads, but I 
	learn something new every now and again!

	Otherwise, my arguments should hold up.

	When were the hydraulic heads first made ?  They MUST be heavy!!
	(and $$$$)

-- 
  Craig Hamm, Memorial University,|   
  Newfoundland, Ocean Acoustics   |
  Canada                          |
  ________________________________|

Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.percussion
From: rigler@dao.nrc.ca (Michael Rigler)
Subject: Re: Okay, how do you tune?
Reply-To: rigler@dao.nrc.ca
Organization: DAO/CADC .
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 21:06:17 GMT

A few more ideas on the tuning issue:

I like to tune the top head fairly tight, but not necessarily as tight as
possible.  After tightening the lugs, I check the relative tightness of
the lugs by tapping the drumhead lightly near each lug and listening for
variations in pitch as I move around the rim.  Small adjustments are required
to make the pitch uniform.

Next I tune the bottom head.  If I want the drum to "ring", I tune the 
bottom head to the exact same pitch as the top head.  That way the two
heads vibrate together.  If I want more of a "dead" sound, I tune the 
bottom head to a slighly different pitch, which causes the heads to 
vibrate out of synch and damp out faster.

When tuning a drumset, I start with the snare (snares off) and tune it
to a fairly high pitch.  Then I tune the toms from smallest to biggest
and end with the base drum, which I leave fairly loose.  I like the
pitches of the drums to form a major chord.
---
Rigler
From: umlehner@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Mike Lehnertz)
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.percussion
Subject: Re: Okay, how do you tune?
Date: 9 Jan 1993 12:41:53 -0600
Organization: Educational Computing Network
NNTP-Posting-Host: uxa.ecn.bgu.edu

   Tuning? Well, I would figure that you might want to tune the drums to
the sound of the ear of the music that you were playing. As I recall,
the drummers of the 60's had an open, "boingy" sound. No muffle at all.
The 70's got into the "dead-studio" sound. Just TAPE every inch of the
drums or play on cardboard boxes!

   I play all the styles when I gig so I go for a full, open sound. Here
is how I was taught to tune... The top head dictates the amount of ring
you want from the drum. The bottom head gets your pitch. So, my bottom
heads are CRANKED up. Really tight. The bottom heads are somewhat lose.
There is a fine line with the top heads. Lose and they are thudy.
Tighten them up and you will get some right. Over tighten and they get
choked again. It takes some fine tuning. The size and depth of your
drums also dictate any sound you get.



                                              - Mike -


   Oh, Dave Weckl tunes the same way I do. So, if you like his sound...
From: abulka@ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU (Andrew Bulka)
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.percussion
Subject: SD 12 - 8 pad Yamaha drum unit
Date: 5 Jan 1993 10:10:22 +1100
Organization: University of Melbourne
NNTP-Posting-Host: ariel.ucs.unimelb.edu.au
Keywords: Yamaha drum kit MIDI

Has anybody go any opinions on this cool box? I'm thinking of
buying one, and have only played with it briefly in the shop.

I hope I've got the model number correct.  It has 8 rubber pads
and a MIDI capability. Here in Australia, it is selling for $400.

-Andy Bulka
New Age WindowWare
From: chaverk@cs.vu.nl (Haverkamp C)
Subject: Building an Elect. Drumkit
Organization: Fac. Wiskunde & Informatica, VU, Amsterdam
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 20:40:16 GMT



I've read a couple postings about creating your own
electric drumkit. The main idea is that you connect 
a piezo trigger connect to drum module like the 
Alesis D-4 or Roland Octapad. This homemade drumpad
will save you a lot of money.
 Now a friend of mine is a drummer and he wants to
construct an electric drumkit like I described above. 
The only problem is that in short time he can't afford
a drum module. But he has an Amiga and an Atari ST.

Now comes the question:  Isn't it possible to connect
the homebrew drumpads to one of these computers? Do you
need an interface or something else for that pupose? And
if it's possible, has someone tried it already(and did he
or she succeed)?.


I'm very interested in your answer.

----------------------------------------------------------
Carlo Haverkamp
Department of Mathematics and Computer Science
Vrije Universiteit
Amsterdam, The Netherlands
From: mhopper@cerl.gatech.edu (Michael A. Hopper)
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.percussion
Subject: Re: WHAT oil choice in drum heads?
Date: 8 Jan 93 19:48:31 GMT
Organization: Computer Engineering Research Lab, Georgia Tech.

In article <C0IA69.EML@news.ucs.mun.ca> hamm@weejordy.physics.mun.ca (Craig Hamm (Evil Spock)) writes:
>
>	SO, the new question is:
>
>	What oil do you prefer, Shell, Esso, Exxon, Mobil, Penzoil ?
>
>	What weight of oil do most drummers prefer, 20W 50, 10W 40 ?
>
>	FLAME ON!!  MAY THE BEST TORCH WIN.     : )

I suggest that anyone interested in whether Evans makes heads with oil in
them, go to a local percussion store and talk to the salesmen or buy one.
I first saw these heads in about 1983.  I've been using them ever since.
I just bought two Evans bass drum heads, but these are not the hydralic
(oil filled) ones because I needed these for the non-batter sides of the
bass drums.

Also, the oil in the heads is clear and probably a very thin weight.  There
is not very much oil their either.  Just enough to provide a consistent
layer between the 2 plies of plastic.  Nothing like what is suggested above.

Enough said.

-Mike


-- 
| mhopper@cerl.gatech.edu |   ' ) ) ) o  /_       ' )  /   ROLL TIDE !!!
| Office: CRB 388         |    / / / /  /\_) __    /__/______   _   __  __
| Phone: (404) 894-9111   |   / / (_/\_/  \_/_/_  /  / (_) /_)_/_)_/_/_/ (_
| Home:  (404) 723-1718   | ALABAMA: 1993 Nat'l Champs    /   / how Sweet it is!
From: dkmiller@unixg.ubc.ca (Derek K. Miller)
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.percussion
Subject: Okay, how do you tune?
Date: 5 Jan 1993 17:46:42 GMT
Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada
NNTP-Posting-Host: unixg.ubc.ca

Okay, this is somewhat embarrassing, but I've been a semi-professional
drummer for almost four years (currently playing in both a 60's cover
band and an original group), and, being self-taught, I never quite figured
out how to tune drums properly. I know what sounds I like, but I've never
nailed down getting them to a science.

This may have been posted during the holidays, but I'll ask again: how 
do you tune drums?

      :=:=> Derek K. Miller                 dkmiller@unixg.ubc.ca
      Researcher, Alma Mater Society        thegrodd@tz.ucs.sfu.ca
      University of British Columbia, Canada

(Slinking off into a corner.)
From: hamm@weejordy.physics.mun.ca (Craig Hamm (Evil Spock))
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.percussion
Subject: Re: WHAT oil choice in drum heads?
Date: 7 Jan 93 22:51:43 GMT
Organization: Ocean Sciences Centre


	SO, the new question is:

	What oil do you prefer, Shell, Esso, Exxon, Mobil, Penzoil ?

	What weight of oil do most drummers prefer, 20W 50, 10W 40 ?

	FLAME ON!!  MAY THE BEST TORCH WIN.     : )

-- 
  Craig Hamm, Memorial University,|   
  Newfoundland, Oil Acoustics  ?  |
  Canada                          |
  ________________________________|
From: simmons@ittc.wec.com (Garry Simmons)
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.percussion
Subject: Re: Okay, how do you tune?
Date: 6 Jan 93 11:29:02 GMT
Organization: Westinghouse Electric Corp., ITTC, Pgh. PA.

In article <1ide81INNhjm@mirror.digex.com> root@rocinante (Operator) writes:
>Derek K. Miller (dkmiller@unixg.ubc.ca) wrote:
>: Okay, this is somewhat embarrassing, but I've been a semi-professional
>: drummer for almost four years (currently playing in both a 60's cover
>: band and an original group), and, being self-taught, I never quite figured
>: out how to tune drums properly. I know what sounds I like, but I've never
>: nailed down getting them to a science.
>: 

Get a copy of the Mix Bookshelf catalog and order "Drum Tuning" (perhaps its
called "The Art of Drum Tuning"). Anyway, I'm a guitarist with a home studio
and I needed to be able to fix the horribly tuned drums bands would bring in
to record with, so I bought this book for $8. Its short and straight to the
point. No magic cures, but it talks about the different sounds from different
heads, tuning, stick response, projection, etc. 

FWIW, this past weekend I was doing a quick demo for a local metal band, and
the high tom was causing the snare to buzz VERY badly. After changing the tuning
on the tom and the snare (not radically) it was still hopeless. As a last ditch
effort, I duct taped the cardboard box for a cymbal in between the snare,tom
and kick drum. Once I filled the box with few carpet scraps, the buzz was
GONE. 

Something about neccesity being a mother....


Garry Simmons
simmons@ittc.pgh.wec.com
From: smills@news.weeg.uiowa.edu (MuffinHead)
Subject: Re: Flame bait ? Oil in drum heads.
Organization: University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 00:35:22 GMT

uslave@mcl.ucsb.edu (Sir Prize!!!) writes:

>Evans Hydraulic.  Sort of like a Remo PinStripe, but with oil in between
>the two membranes.  Now what do you do when you break through the top
>membrane is my question.....?  :)

   Just keep whacking it! :)  I used a few Hydraulics a long time ago. The
top layer would break first. The oil doesn't really SPILL out that much, but
it does help the flapping pieces of head to stay sucked down to the bottom 
layer. Actually, I never noticed a change in the sound or characterists of the
head when one layer broke. :D Damn dead things.

Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.percussion
From: hamm@weejordy.physics.mun.ca (Craig Hamm (Evil Spock))
Subject: Re: Oil in drum heads
Organization: Ocean Sciences Centre
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 17:22:21 GMT

In article <1993Jan8.142739.12016@astroatc.uucp>, feuling@astroatc.uucp (Lindsay Feuling) writes:
|> Yes, the Evans heads DO contain oil between the two layers of drum head.
|> I've been using these type for many many years, and swear that they give 
|> better performance than any pin-stripe head will give you.  They're really
|> not that expensive.  IMHO, if you want to buy a cheap drum head, e.g. Ludwig,
|> then you might as well be playing a cardboard box.
|> 
	I don't question your preference, but then are all of us 
	playing on Remos etc playing on cardboard boxes ?  Have the
	sounds changed so radically with the Evans heads that it
	is obvious in the recorded sounds availible on cd, or live?  
	i.e. 'Gosh, that kit sounds awful, must be the Remos.'

	Some would say playing on Pearls makes Tama sound like 
	balsa wood, but that hasn't been made clear, and neither has 
	your statement.  (IMHO).  

-- 
  Craig Hamm, Memorial University,|   
  Newfoundland, Ocean Acoustics   |
  Canada                          |
  ________________________________|

Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.percussion
From: tanswell@ug.cs.dal.ca (Ron Tanswell)
Subject: Beginner - practice pad?
Summary: help!
Keywords: drums practice pad beginner tuning
Organization: Math, Stats & CS, Dalhousie University, Halifax, NS, Canada
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 17:14:53 GMT

Although I have only sat behind a drum kit twice, I have always wanted
to learn how to play.  So, I am planning on taking drum lessons this year.

Someone suggested to me that I buy some sticks and a practice pad.  So I did;
I bought 2 sticks and a Remo Tunable Practice Pad.  Now that I have it,
I really don't know what to do with it.

Are there any exercises or "things" that I can do with it to help me before I
get into lessons?  For that matter, what use is it during lessons?
I realize that it is useful for getting a feel for stick bounce, and that it
is a quiet drum, but is that it?

Oh yeah, and with this tuning thread, why would anyone want to tune a
practice pad?

Thanks,
	-Ron.