From: terry@cs.weber.edu (A Wizard of Earth C)
Subject: Re: Novell buys Unix Systems Laboratory
Followup-To: poster
Organization: Weber State University  (Ogden, UT)
Distribution: alt
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 92 16:22:25 GMT

In article <MIKE.92Dec30150532@cuba.vlsivie.tuwien.ac.at> mike@vlsivie.tuwien.ac.at (Michael Gschwind) writes:
>In article <1992Dec26.213958.1958@fcom.cc.utah.edu> terry@cs.weber.edu (A Wizard of Earth C) writes:
>
>   This says more about your local support, which is supposedly a "partner"
>   with the foreign supplier and capable of providing a decent level of
>   support to its customers.  If it can't, it's probably in violation of
>   it's agreements with those foreign suppliers.  In my personal experience,
>   support through local distributors has always been excellent; but then
>   again, this may have more to do with the people I choose to do business
>   with.
>
>   Often in the past, I have seen "grey market" import of software into
>   countries; rather than paying the higher "non-US" prices (which is what
>   pays for local support), they purchase from "less expensive" dealers
>   who buy directly from distributors in the US.  This is, of course,
>   against the contractual agreements by the US distributors... sales to
>   international destinations are generally allowed only through international
>   distributors and at international pricing so that support is guaranteed.
>   Is it any wonder that your local authorized distributors won't support
>   product not purchased through them?  Pick the right people to do business
>   with and your support will be excellent.
>
>Unfortunately, this is not true. We've bought computers from Apollo
>and HP, THE COMPANIES!!!!, not some illegal importer, and their
>support was non-existant. Indeed, they did forward everything to
>Chelmsford, MA! Support in Europe is non-existant, 1-800 lines do not
>exist, and incompetent staff are sent out to fix problems. One reason
>is market fragmentation (Austria, Switzerland, Belgium, Luxemburg, the
>Scandinavian countries etc are not very huge markets, so even if the
>companies are present, they will generally have few staff.) So please
>get you facts together in future before telling people who are
>suffering from non-existant support that they are not dealing with the
>right people. If HP the company is not the right company to buy HP
>computers from, WHO IS???

I'll direct you to the last sentence of each of my paragraphs above:

>   In my personal experience, support through local distributors has always
>   been excellent; but then again, this may have more to do with the people
>   I choose to do business with.

>   Pick the right people to do business with and your support will be
>   excellent.


I won't directly condemn HP; certainly I have no qualms about the support
I have received in the US, and I have no experience with HP support as a
particular case outside of the US.

If you are unhappy with the support you are getting, you are free to vote
with your wallet for the best support.  If you choose to do business with
companies you believe have bad support, you have only yourself to blame;
in addition, others can blame *you* for it, since you are specifically
providing an economic incentive for them not changing their business
practices by doing business with them.  If you cook the soup, don't
complain about its taste.

I don't know if the lack of 800 numbers is a choice by the company or
something endemic to your countries phone system or communications
regulatory agencies policies.  If it's a choice by the company, you
can count that as a cost of doing business with the company.  In the
US, some companies provide support using 900 numbers.  A 900 number
is one where you are billed through the phone company per message
unit for the period of time you are connected.  At least one company
I know of charges $5 US per minute for support, and there are probably
others who charge more than that.  Support should be part of your purchase
decision, not simply an afterthought.  If it isn't, blame *yourself*.

It is unlikely that a Foreign company will import incompetent nationals
from their own country at great expense to provide bad support in some
other country.  This is self-defeating behaviour.  More likely, they
will hire competent (or incompetent) natives to provide support for
their products in a particular country.  A small staff is a sign of
a bad company; either the market is there or it is not, and if it is,
a company establishes offices to make money in the market.  Yet another
opportunity to vote with your wallet.  If the problem is one of poor
local talent, contact the home office of the company directly.  Your
local representatives would be stupid to report your complaints of
incompetence to their superiors, since the ultimate result would be
their replacement.

In general, you will get better support from a local company that is
acting as an agent/partner for a foreign-based company than a local
branch of that foreign company.  Japanese law, for instance, makes this
type of business relationship almost mandatory if you wish to do any
business in Japan.  This is a good thing for Japanese consumers, even
though it tends to paint Japan as a villan in the international trade
community.  Generally, this is because we fail to apply the same high
standards to ourselves as we do to others.

You are more likely to be able to get redress for your grievances if the
company is incorparated under local laws, and therefore accountable under
local law for the services they provide.  This assumes your local law is
up to some form of enforcement.  Even if it isn't, you are again welcome
to "vote" against the practices of a particular company by not doing
business with them.

---

This thread has diverged significantly from the original topic, and is
no longer applicable to this group; followups are directed to email.


					Terry Lambert
					terry@icarus.weber.edu
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                        "I have an 8 user poetic license" - me
 Get the 386bsd FAQ from agate.berkeley.edu:/pub/386BSD/386bsd-0.1/unofficial
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.suit.att-bsdi,comp.org.eff.talk