HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bhaskar@brtph598.bnr.ca (Shaji Bhaskar)
Subject: Re: brackish tank info needed
Organization: Bell Northern Research Inc.
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 16:35:30 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.233823.12325@Veritas.COM> oleg@veritas.com (Oleg Kiselev) writes:
[lots of useful info deleted]
>Here are exerpts from a summary article I posted a while ago on the subject.
>A list of fish that can be housed in a brackish aquarium:
[part of list deleted]
>>	Etroplus maculatus, Asian cichlids sold as Orange and Green Chromides
[more deleted info]

It seems there are two different species of fish sold as "green
chromides".  One looks like an orange chromide except for its color.
I also see (rarely) E. suratensis (sp?) sold as "green chromides".
The latter look very different from E. maculatus - they are
discus-shaped fish, dark green in color, with vertical bars of lighter
green, and white spots on the scales.  They grow to be about a foot.
E. suratensis, like E. maculatus, live in brackish water.

-Shaji.
-- 
Shaji Bhaskar                                   Email: bhaskar@bnr.ca
BNR, Research Triangle Park, NC 27709           Phone: (919) 991 7125
Xref: sparky alt.aquaria:4397 rec.aquaria:6129
From: biow@cs.umd.edu (chris biow)
Newsgroups: alt.aquaria,rec.aquaria
Subject: Metric for amount of fish (Was: Re: Unfiltered Tanks (Was: Re: Need net wisdom asap...))
Date: 31 Jul 92 14:12:47 GMT
Followup-To: alt.aquaria
Organization: U of Maryland, Dept. of Computer Science, Coll. Pk., MD 20742

Should we really be using "inches of fish" to measure the fish-load
on a tank. Generally, for the same activity level in a cold-blooded
creature, you'd expect the food intake and waste output to vary
by the _cube_ of any linear dimension. In other words, the fish-load
would be proportional to the weight of the fish, not the head to 
tail length. Given that the fish we put in tanks easily vary by 
a ratio of 10:1, that means that we are miscalculating fish-load
by a factor of at least 100 over the size-scale.

Perhaps some of this is make up by lesser activity or greater metaboloic
efficiency of large fish. But it would still mean that a formula such
as, "One inch of fish per gallon" could be off by an order of magnitude,
depending upon just what size of fish we're speaking of.

For reductio ad absurdum, note that a 55 inch long fish would not 
even fit in a normal 55 gallon tank. And at some point (about 500?)
a fish of length X will displace more than X gallons, unless he
has zero cross section.
 
Is there any justification at all for the rules of thumb we hear?
 
Xref: sparky alt.aquaria:4372 rec.aquaria:6100
Newsgroups: alt.aquaria,rec.aquaria
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 21:56:13 EDT
From: jrk@division.cs.columbia.edu (John R. Kender)
Subject: Re: [lighting] Triton bulb lifespan?

In article <1967@gvgspd.GVG.TEK.COM> Peter writes:
>Recently one of them has developed a flicker which looks like it
>only lights on half cycles of the ac power.

Prepare the casket.  That's how they die.  This nonsense about
turning itself off when it senses it is too old is only half right.

BTW, I noticed that certain of my fish (red-line rasboras) actually
look better under standard grow lights:  their color falls between the
three phosphors that Triton uses.

John
Xref: sparky alt.aquaria:4312 rec.aquaria:5996
From: mattk@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (matthew.kaufman)
Newsgroups: alt.aquaria,rec.aquaria
Subject: Re: brackish tank info needed
Date: 24 Jul 92 14:06:35 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Jul24.122747.22771@brtph560.bnr.ca> bhaskar@brtph598.bnr.ca (Shaji Bhaskar) writes:
>
>Where I grew up, in the South West coast of India, the lagoons (home
>of the orange and green chromides) are usually covered with water

Gee, what do wild orange and green chromides look like?
>hyacinth.  It is such a pest that it affects water transportation,
>most of which is still muscle-powered. People use the water hyacinth
>as fertilizer, and the green chromides as food - it does make very
>tasty meal.
>
One thing about Eichornia crasspes - it ain't that easy to grow - it
needs to float, (no lid on the tank,) it likes real strong light and
lots of trace elements and iron in the water. I've done well with it
indoors with about 8 wpg of mixed fluorescent lights. It's a messy plant,
too, sheds leaves and roots. It does consume a lot of fish output though -
I was using it as my only filter in a tank when I was fooling with it.
-- 
"They'll never let you   | Copyright 1992 mattk@usl.com. Permission for
out of here alive.       | reproduction in printed media or by pay-for-read
They're not that stupid."| services explicitly disallowed. Permission granted
"I disagree."            | USENET and like free facilities.
From: booth@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (George Booth)
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1992 19:34:43 GMT
Subject: [F] Solution Ground seems to work
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Loveland, CO
From: frazier@maxwell (Greg Frazier)
Newsgroups: alt.aquaria,rec.aquaria
Subject: Re: brackish tank info needed
Date: 23 Jul 92 23:15:12 GMT
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

raible@cbmvax.commodore.com (Bob Raible - LSI Design) writes:
: I already have purchased a pair of Scatophagus argus
: 
: What about plants? I seem to remember a list that Vinnie (???) printed
: here a ways back, but I neglected to save it. I seem to remember Java
: fern and Java moss, and H. polysperma, but how about top cover, like
: water sprite, riccia, etc. ?

Scats will eat any plant you put into the tank - forget it.

--


Greg Frazier	frazier@CS.UCLA.EDU	!{ucbvax,rutgers}!ucla-cs!frazier
Xref: sparky alt.aquaria:4399 rec.aquaria:6131
From: raible@cbmvax.commodore.com (Bob Raible - LSI Design)
Newsgroups: alt.aquaria,rec.aquaria
Subject: sick scats - any info appreciated
Date: 31 Jul 92 17:03:00 GMT
Organization: Commodore

The two scats that I mentioned in my brackish water post are slowly coming
down with some sort of growth on their pectoral and caudal fins. Both fish
are similarly affected, it appears as a white growth near the outer margin
of the affected fins, it is white and does not look like FW ick, since the
sites are osrt of indefinite in shape and do not look like grains of salt.
I have owned fish in the past that came down with ick and this looks 
different. Also I doubt it's due to fighting since these two have the tank to
themselves and both are similarly affected. Also the fins are intact, and
not torn at all. Got any ideas ?????
From: harlow@waikato.ac.nz
Newsgroups: alt.aquaria
Subject: FAQ and Filtration...
Date: 22 Jul 92 12:28:03 +1200
Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand

Thanks to all those who responded to my question about tanks. One person
suggested I get hold of the Alt.Aquaria FAQ list. How do I do this?

Another question, this time about filtration. I have decided to buy a 4' long
tank but I'm unsure what sort of filtration to use. The options I'm considering
are:
	(1)  External power filter
	(2)  Underground filtration + external power filiter
	     (Do I really need to worry about underground filtration?)
	(3)  Underground filtration w/ power heads

I guess this is probably answered in the FAQ file, but what the hell :-)

Stephen
Xref: sparky alt.aquaria:4357 rec.aquaria:6079
From: pclark@ds5000.DAC.Northeastern.edu (Peter Clark)
Newsgroups: alt.aquaria,rec.aquaria
Subject: Re: Visitherm heater defective???
Date: 28 Jul 92 20:09:40 GMT
Followup-To: alt.aquaria
Organization: Northeastern University, Boston MA. USA 02115

That's definately strange for a VisiTherm.  In my (limited - 2 years) 
experience with them (I have a 150W in my 30g and a 250 in my 55g) I have
never had a temperature differential of more than 1 degree.  My suggestion
( do not remember what wattage you have in your tank) would be to have at
least a 150W in the 30g, and to unplug it, take it out of the tank, leave
it out of the tank for at least 30min-1 hour (just like their little booklet
says) and then put it back in, wait 1 hour (at least) then plug it in and
set the temperature.  If this does not work - and to be honest I do not look
at the temperature scale on the heater itself, just the tank thermometer - I
would consider having it replaced as defective.  But like a heat/AC control
unit, turn it up, let the temperature get to where it is supposed to be, then
slowly turn it down until it just barely turns off.  Then turn it up, slowly,
to the point where it turns back on.  Remember where this point is.  Turn it
off again, then turn it up to just below the point where it turns off.  This
should re-set the heater to maintain a temperature just below (maybe less than
1 degree, depending on your precision turning) the desired temperature and
any time the temp goes down the heater should turn on.

I know this is long, rambling, and confusing but that is how I set up my
tanks and they haven't changed from 68 degrees in over 8 months (eccept
for when I mess up the tap temperature while doing water-changes...)

Mail to pclark@ds5000.dac.northeastern.edu if you have any questions.


Newsgroups: alt.aquaria
From: br907@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (T.J. Stanek)
Subject: Aquarium shape
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 23:56:12 GMT


For all you beginners out there here is a little advice from 
experience:

To figure out the tank size first, if you are limited in space
go with the largest most accesible space AWAY from a window
for little or no algae growth. But if space is no problem
just go according to the best tank for the FULL size fish you 
wish to keep.

Second try and stay away from really odd shaped or tanks that are
too small for the fish you wish to keep. Finally and most important
consult an expert such as your local pet store owner.

WARNING: NEVER SKIP THE THIRD STEP IT CAN SAVE TIME AND MONEY
         NOT TO MENTION SPACE.

And for all you out there with plants that have taken over yout
long aquarium and you can no longer do cuttings I had the same
problem with my 10-gallon freshwater tropical tank. But I 
acquired a 20-gallon high tank with a mirror in the back for
the illusion of two tanks and replanted a couple "tall" plants
in it. The plants grew and even though an upright holds
less fish because of oxygen deffiency it is not noticeable because
the "tall" seem natural and the mirror also makes the tank a
work of art. 

Please send any disagreements or problems with this article
to T.J. (br907) thanks!
Xref: sparky alt.aquaria:4293 rec.aquaria:5967
From: raible@cbmvax.commodore.com (Bob Raible - LSI Design)
Newsgroups: alt.aquaria,rec.aquaria
Subject: brackish tank info needed
Date: 23 Jul 92 13:26:23 GMT
Reply-To: raible@cbmvax.UUCP (Bob Raible - LSI Design)
Organization: Commodore Technology, West Chester, PA

I am in the process of setting upa a 29g brackish aquaria at work, and have
gathered donations of equipment from other enthusiasts as well as my own
"junk bin". Now that the sucker is up and running I plan to cycle the
sucker with a couple of black mollies. Temp. is to be maintained at 78 deg F
and 12 tablespoons of salt have been added (about 0.5 TBS per gallon). Is this
enough salt to be considered brackish, or would 1 TBS per gallon be more
appropriate? I already have purchased a pair of Scatophagus argus and they are
with the mollies in my 10g hospital tank at home( tank is broken in, but 
salt was added only shortly before insertion of fish). Other candidates for
the 29g are orange chromides and possibly monodactylus ??? (monos). For a
scavenger I was considering a Synodontis ni???? (upside-down cat). Any
comments from the peanut gallery? 

What about plants? I seem to remember a list that Vinnie (???) printed
here a ways back, but I neglected to save it. I seem to remember Java
fern and Java moss, and H. polysperma, but how about top cover, like
water sprite, riccia, etc. ?

PS: mollies and scats are doing fine, eagerly awaiting their new tank. Mollies
are doing a good job of munching down on whatever green algae they can find.
Somebody munched down on a cucumber slice, but I don't know which was 
responsible. I also note that one scat seems to like to chase the other all
around the tank, but I don't believe there is any hostile contact made. Is
this teritorial behavior ? I was led to believe that these critters were
fairly sociable.
Xref: sparky alt.aquaria:4348 rec.aquaria:6062
From: tse@ra.nrl.navy.mil (Anthony Tse)
Newsgroups: alt.aquaria,rec.aquaria
Subject: Re: Unfiltered Tanks (Was: Re: Need net wisdom asap...)
Date: 28 Jul 92 13:17:09 GMT
Organization: Naval Research Labratory, Washington, DC

In article <92Jul27.103748edt.230@smoke.cs.toronto.edu> enenkel@cs.toronto.edu (Robert Frederick Enenkel) writes:
>fish load.  But without a filter the maximum allowable load is very small.
>I found that a 100 gal tank with an airstone cannot digest the ammonia from
>four 3" long common goldfish.  It had more than two months to get established.
>The ammonia-nitrogen level was 5-10 ppm.  (I did water changes so it wouldn't
>go above that).

My uncle in SF CA has a 20g tank in his garage, no filter, no air stone,
no heater, tons of algea and 2 or 3 gold fish.  The tank looked
absolutely horrible with thick algea on the glass but the fish are
happy.  Never actually check the ammonia level though.

-Anthony
check the 
Xref: sparky alt.aquaria:4273 rec.aquaria:5935 sci.aquaria:1122
From: mstephens.520@postman.gsfc.nasa.gov (mark stephens)
Newsgroups: alt.aquaria,rec.aquaria,sci.aquaria
Subject: long, short tank ideas
Date: 21 Jul 92 17:09:18 GMT
Organization: nasa/gsfc

If I can convence the person who lives with me, I have a picture window,
facing north (eg, little sun 2 weeks out of the year) with a low wall
unit from IKEA in front of it.  I don't want to block the window very 
much, so I though a 6'L x 1.5'W x 1'H  (1.8m x .70m x .35m) tank would just
do the trick.  I'll have to make it myself, which, after looking at the 
cost, may make me reconsider a more conventional tank.  This is a 67.5 gallon
(US) tank.  A 2 foot width puts it at 90 gallons, and that's a lot of weight.

I may put a hood on top, maybe not.  I will not grow plants (right) so lighting is
either ambiant (mostly back lit which will be somewhat strange) or via
one or two florescent strips.  The tank would be filtered either through
a canister filter or a wet/dry type filter.  Filter input would be at one
end and output at the other and the flow would be made very strong to aprox.
(poorly) a stream.  Substrate would be a stones or pebbles with tree roots
(bog wood) artistically arrainged (grin).  House plants would be hydroponically
grown at one end of the tank with their roots allowed to grow in the water.

Any ideas?

Some I had are:

A native stream (have to get a fishing licence here in 
MD) but I don't know much about native fish and worry about the living room being
too hot.  I want to know much more about these fish!  This would be my prefered
setup.  Max temp in the living room is 85F (summer) and min is about 
65F (winter). (Recommend any good native fish books?)

A more conventional tropical fish tank with amasonian natives with either some
big nasty cichlids (may need more head room) & cat fish combo OR a large 
school of tetra OR ???

I also worry about the wall unit supporting the weight of the tank, which 
at only 1 foot high and 67.5 gallons comes in at a total of about 540 pounds
or 60 pounds per square foot. (Sorry about the archane US measuring system).

Is this a crazy idea or what?

                          mark
Newsgroups: alt.aquaria,rec.aquaria
From: krogers@javelin.sim.es.com (K. Rogers)
Subject: Re: [M] Threespot Damsel Spawning?
Reply-To: krogers@javelin.sim.es.com
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp., Salt Lake City, Utah
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 20:24:15 GMT

dp@cbnewsc.cb.att.com (daniel.a.parker) writes:

>One of my two Threespot Damsels started behaving strangely a few weeks
>ago.  This damsel bobbed in an exaggerated fashion both near a particular
>rock and while chasing the other threespot.  At first I thought "she"
>was ill but she continued eating and established her territory.  When
>she picked clean most of the green hair algae from one side of the rock,
>it looked like she was preparing a site for egg laying--spawning.
>However, I didn't see an ovipositor or genital papilla develop on either
>fish as I would expect based on experience with freshwater egg layers.

Substrate cleaning is a hallmark of Pomacentrid (damsels and clown
fishes) prespawning behavior.  The reason you didn't see any
ovipositor, etc is because the male does all the cleaning and egg
tending, not the female.

>I figured she was just going through the motions.  But then she switched
>to defending an OLD (dead) sea fan that is in a fairly strong current.
>The other damsel still did not participate in any mating except for
>being chased around the sea fan but not away from it.  Then last night
>I noticed a field of very small white dots on part of one side of the
>sea fan... COULD THESE BE EGGS?!  The field is about four square inches
>of several hundred dots that can't be bigger than about 0.5mm.  She
>stayed with them all night as if she were fanning them.  

Yup, you got eggs.  They'll hatch 6-9 days from being laid right after
lights out.  You can use a low watt light to observe it.  The larvae
will be some 3mm long and swim towards the surface and light.  Don't
bother collecting them though unless you are already set up in both
equipment and knowledge - raising marine fish larve is a hell of a lot
more difficult than (most) freshwater ones.  There are several readily
available references on how to do it but it takes time to digest the
info and set equipment and methods up for a serious go at it.

The fanning and mouthing is done by the male.  He will be smaller than
the female though he will do all the territory defending while the
eggs are there.  The fish should spawn every 10-14 days if they stay
happy.

Congrats.  It's still quite rare to get anything to spawn in marine
tanks.  I'm jelous - my clown fish are all talk (go through all the
prespawning motions) but no action.  By way of consolation, however,
my open brain coral spawned again last week.
-- 
Keith Rogers
krogers@javelin.sim.es.com
Xref: sparky alt.aquaria:4319 rec.aquaria:6004
Newsgroups: alt.aquaria,rec.aquaria
From: enenkel@cs.toronto.edu (Robert Frederick Enenkel)
Subject: Re: Question about putting roots of plants in tank water.
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto
Date: 24 Jul 92 19:35:51 GMT


nick@icad.com (Nick Caruso) writes:

>I was wondering, what plants are safe to place in a tank in this way,
>i.e. with roots dangling in the water and foliage outside?  The book
>doesn't say, but it seems to imply that it's not dangerous.

Depending on what kind of fish you have, it might be dangerous for the
plant.  But that's easily solved.  I hung the aerial roots of a large
philodendron seloum into a 100 gal tank when it used to contain one
18" koi.  The root ball of the plant was kept in a basket full of soil
beside and above the tank, and hung from the ceiling on a chain.
I thought the tough 3/8" diameter aerial roots should be able to
look after themselves, but eventually I had to interpose a piece of
eggcrate plastic to discourage the attentions of the friendly koi.

As far as absorbing nitrate from the water, I can't say for sure, but
the plant seemed quite happy, making nice 2-3 ft. diameter leaves in
the year or so that it hung there.  The only reason I took it out was
that I moved the koi into the basement, which sadly lacks the 12 ft.
ceiling necessary to hang the big plant.

Robert Enenkel

Newsgroups: alt.aquaria
From: jmains@latech.edu (John P. Mains)
Subject: SALT INFORMATION NEEDED!!
Organization: Louisiana Tech University
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 15:10:23 GMT

I am needing your help with statistical problem.
Data Needed:  Salt level in aquaium (specific gravity)
              Gallons held by aquarium
               Dimensions of Aquarium (height, length, width)
              Height of water level when testing salt
               Temperature of aquarium when testing salt
              Average temperature of aquarium
Optional data
              filter type
               aquarium specimens
               lighting
              salts used

The data is going to be used for a simple statistical project
concerning aquarium salt content.  I will post my findings
if I receive enough info, (as if this info will have any great use)
for those interested.

Thanx
jmains@engr.latech.edu
Xref: sparky alt.aquaria:4337 rec.aquaria:6034
Newsgroups: alt.aquaria,rec.aquaria
From: enenkel@cs.toronto.edu (Robert Frederick Enenkel)
Subject: Re: [F] Sorry about "my" article in AFM
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto
Date: 27 Jul 92 14:18:10 GMT

booth@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (George Booth) writes:

>I just received my September AFM and turned with anticipation to part
>2 of my article.  Holy Hack Job, Batman, I've Been Edited!  I don't
>know why, but all the text relating to the theory and set up of the
>filtration, CO2 injection, substrate, hardness, pH and fertilization
>was deleted and the maintenance information was substituted in its
>place.  Our course, the four figures that support the text were
>published without captions or anything!  There shouldn't be any
>confusion because of that, will there :-)

I don't think this is funny at all.  Why do people buy/read/write for a
magazine that does things like that?  Who needs it?  

Robert Enenkel
Newsgroups: alt.aquaria
From: monetc@milton.u.washington.edu ()
Subject: [F] CO2 setup - pennies per day!
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 15:06:00 GMT

Okay. I think that it is safe for me to post this now : note! I dont
take credit for this idea - when in Seattle, please visit 'The Fish Store'
on Roosevelt. They are knowledgable (sp!) and friendly.

Setup: 60 gallons, freshwater, Aquaclear 300 filter, EboJaeger 250(?)
heater.
Substrate: a mix of small (standard aquarium) gravel on up to 1cc pebbles.
Lighting:120 watts of commercial 'grow lights' and 'Spectralights'.

Fish: 3 species of small to medium sized tetra. One p***ostomus (who
mostly gets green beans from the garden.. and loves 'em!)

This tank is planted with several species of Vals, Crypts, some java ferns,
bolbitis, amazon swords, and a large anubias lanceolata. The tank has been
running for a few months and all plants are growing happily..I have not
has anyone attempt to exit via the top yet, but I can see where it will
happen soon.. my saggitaria natans has been divided and moved several times
now.

and now the reason forthis post: I have been playing around with CO2 
(injection isnt the right word for this.. how about) 'augmentation'. I am
using baking yeast and corn syrup in a two liter soda bottle. The actual
mix is still under experimentation. The CO2 enters the tank via a 'toy'.
I have measured a .2-.3 drop in pH while the 'device' is running (current
pH ~ 7.0-.1). The bottle sits atop the hood and thus gets heated and
stimulated by the heat from the lights (12 hours / day). 
The maintenance of the 'device' is that I pour out 2/3 of the mix once
per week and refill the bottle (to 1" below the top of the parallel
section) with warm water and the fill to the base of the curve with
corn syrup. Agitate gently to dissolve the mess. It takes about
6 hours to re saturate the mix with CO2 but when it starts
runnning I get 2-3 'bursts' of bubbles / minute and this continues
throughout the week fairly steadily.

Things to consider: I need to ditch the toy and make a better way to
promote gas exchange. The various  *.aquaria 'techno-weenies' are
prbably warming up the flame-throwers for my lack of proper testing -
sorry. For the price of the various kits I can get lots of nifty plants...
and so far everyone is happy.

last things: there is no substrate heating, additional fertilizer (outside
of the fish waste), or attempts to pot any of these plants. Someday
when I am rich Im gonna shoot the moon and build my own SST (thanks for
the net post G&K Booth - Im sorry that your AFM article got maimed.)

Jon (monetc@u.washington.edu)
as usual,     >---->   cat flames >> /dev/null.
.
:x

Newsgroups: alt.aquaria,rec.aquaria,sci.aquaria