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Date:         Sat, 5 Sep 1992 09:20:36 +0200
From:         Jan Szelepcsenyi <janszel@POSEN.MFF.UNIBA.CS>
Subject:      "Re: cultural imperialism"

Miroslav Havranek once wrote....

>>It's some kind of cultural imperialism which is so dangerous, as a political
>>or  territorial imperialism.
>>
>>Jan Szelepcsenyi
>
>
>As a Czech I don't agree with many points of the position. But it won my
>respect as the way the majority of the Slovaks looks upon us.
                        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Thank you, Miroslav, that you accepted my opinion as a basis for
a discussion. But you don't have to overestimate my  p e r s o n a l
opinion as "the way the majority of the Slovaks looks upon us", i.e.
the Czechs.


>... Now I finally
>see the only way to demonstrate the Czechs are  n o t  willing to become
>"Lehrmeister" of the Slovaks or anybody else is dividing Czechoslovakia
>into two entirely independent states as soon as possible.
>

I'm affraid this is a short circuit. I tried to demonstrate some
of the mistakes made by Czechs during their attempt to
determinate their national qualities. My point of view is that a
nation have to find their identity in different qualities of its
mentality, culture, history, etc. without any competitive
approach, which always leads to results, reminding rascism.
Getting rid of Slovaks doesn't solve this problem, because it's
caused by a behaviour, that will disturb every European nation.
I tried to explain that a nation - and its political
representatives, who have anything to offer, are everytime
modest. Don't forget: generosity could be sometimes understood
as a kind of pride.

By the way, yesterday (September 3rd) after the constitutional
ceremony at Bratislava castle I'd the opportunity to speak a
high-ranked Czech politician. The result of this talk was, that
the new Slovak constitution, which will be followed soon by a
Czech one, could be estimated as the basis for a stronger union
between both nations than ever before.

Respectfully,


Jan
----
Jan Szelepcsenyi                        	Telephone: + 42 7 220863
janszel@posen.mff.uniba.cs              	Address  : ul. A. Mraza 4
                                                	   821 03 Bratislava
							   Czechoslovakia
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Date:         Mon, 7 Sep 1992 09:43:26 EDT
From:         Stan Brunn <BRUNN@UKCC.UKY.EDU>
Subject:      RE: paradigm shift
              6 Sep 1992 13:40:14 EST from <HAMMERL@UCS.INDIANA.EDU>

Regarding the making of new states, there is an interesting article in the Los
Angles Times on 25 August by Robin Wright entitled "The Outer Limits."  In this
 article, which is based on a half dozen political geographers who attended an
international conference in Washington recently, are maps on a redrawm Europe,
North Americ and Asia.  Good reading, good for discussion and debate, and usefu
l for lectures.  Makes one think that the final world political map (even for t
he decade) is not finished. Stan Brunn
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Date:         Mon, 7 Sep 1992 10:59:03 +0100
From:         KUBASKA@CSBBYS51.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Slovak national interests

1 ....Stability of political system
2 ....New law system ( mainly economical part)
3 ....Privatisation and reconstruction of economy
4 ....New war doctrine and new Secret service


Marian Kubaska
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Date:         Mon, 14 Sep 1992 08:34:00 PDT
From:         lhdsy1!HOVMB.HOU281.CHEVRON.COM!TKMARC@UUNET.UU.NET
Subject:      Re: Slovak National Interests

>Subject: Re: Slovak national interests
>1 .....Stability of political system
>     Since we accepted the democratic way of solving problems I hope,that
>     everybody agree that this is the very basement of democracy in our
>     situation.
>     That means:
>             3 or 4 parties in parliament. (Not poland way)
>             3/5 majority able to find agreement over the basic issues
>             trust of the majority of the citizens to goverment and parliament
>             criticism (not destruction) of the goverment and parl. by the
>press
>   2 .....New law system
>             New constitution of SR (already done)
>             Reconstruction of entire law system (economical,criminal,...)
>3 ......Reconstruction and Privatisation of economy.
>              To avoid dirty money to take part in privatisation.
>              To avoid monopolisation.
>              To avoid to sell enterprices for dumpind prices.
>4 ......New defence doctrine and secret service.
>              Don't let the diletants to enter secret service.
>              Use up the former STB agents (not from district for fight
>               with inner enemy)
>              To define the allies of SR to define war doctrine.
>
>
>Marian Kubaska

Marian:

If this is in response to the question of what are the Slovak national
interests, you didn't understand the question. All of what you list are
methods, ways, and means to advance some interests, but not the interests
themselves. What are those?

--Kamil Marcinka (Internet address: tkmarc@hovmb.ion.chevron.com)
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Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 1992 09:57:03 PDT
From:         Martin Rajnis <martinr@MICROSOFT.COM>
Subject:      Re: Wire transfer of money

Hi Jozef,
about wire transfer: try to track whole routing
of money - you can ask in CS for a kind
of transaction log from the computer.
Martin Rajnis (martinr@microsoft.com)
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Date:         Tue, 15 Sep 1992 13:27:55 PDT
From:         lhdsy1!HOVMB.HOU281.CHEVRON.COM!TKMARC@UUNET.UU.NET
Subject:      Re: National interests

>Kamil :
>As you already mentioned there is the only one national interest :
>the well being of citizens of SR.
>The issues in my posting, I guess, are not only methods, ways and means to
>advance some interests, but necessary conditions that have to be fulfiled
>to even start to aply some methods.
>
>Marian Kubaska

Marian:

Do you think political pluralism and freedom of speech are principles
that advance the interests of Slovakia or not?

--Kamil Marcinka (Internet address: tkmarc@hovmb.ion.chevron.com)
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Date:         Mon, 14 Sep 1992 15:21:09 +0100
From:         MARTONAK@ITSSISSA.BITNET
Subject:      a comment

Mr. Masek says:

> Dear Jan Szelepcsenyi,
 >    PLEASE DON'T USE MY NAME IN YOUR CONTRIBUTIONS.

Hoping the request of Mr. Masek regards only Mr. Szelepcsenyi (and not all the
users of the net), I allow myself to use his name without prior asking for
permission.

Dear Mr. Masek,
don't you think it looks a little bit like
"Don't take the name of Lord in vain" ?

                                Best regards.

                                Roman Martonak
                                International school for Advanced Studies
                                Strada Costiera 11
                        34014   Trieste
                                Italy
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Date:         Tue, 15 Sep 1992 07:38:11 +0100
From:         KUBASKA@CSBBYS51.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Slovak National Interests

Kamil :
As you already mentioned there is the only one national interest :
the well being of citizens of SR.
The issues in my posting, I guess, are not only methods, ways and means to
advance some interests, but necessary conditions that have to be fulfiled
to even start to aply some methods.

Marian Kubaska
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Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 1992 14:28:10 EDT
From:         George Frajkor <gfrajkor@CCS.CARLETON.CA>
Subject:      Re: Wire transfer of money
              Rajnis" at Sep 10, 92 9:57 am

Martin Rajnis writes:
>
> Hi Jozef,
> about wire transfer: try to track whole routing
> of money - you can ask in CS for a kind
> of transaction log from the computer.
> Martin Rajnis (martinr@microsoft.com)

     Can someone explain how wire transfer of money is done?  Western
Union?  It seems like it might be efficient.  Does
it all go through Prague or direct to the nearest bank?   How much is
lost in commission?  (I made the mistake of leaving some American
Express travellers cheques as a gift to cousins in Slovakia last year.
It took months of sworn documentation, stamping of papers, and
"commissions" (which my cousins took to be bribes)
before they were cashable.

    Jan George Frajkor
 School of Journalism                      _!_
 Carleton University,                     __!__
 Ottawa, Ontario                            !
 Canada K1S 5B6                             !
   -- gfrajkor@ccs.carleton.ca --          /^\
  613 788-7404     fax:613 788-5604    /^\/   \/^\
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Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 1992 04:11:21 -0400
Reply-To:     hoffmann@urzdfn.kartographie.TU-DRESDEN.DBP.DE
From:         hoffmann@URZDFN.KARTOGRAPHIE.TU-DRESDEN.DBP.DE
Subject:      JOZEF MARSALA at BU !

Jozef, your note on RE: adressing came in with an email header from
your account NOT addressable from TUD... I got my question onto
banking system in general to you personally - back...
Please, send me a personal note directly.
Frank Hoffmann
TU Dresden
Germany
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Date:         Mon, 14 Sep 1992 12:11:00 CST
From:         NFPKP@AUDUCVAX.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Constitution of Slovak republic

Help.....I would like to have my name removed from this list....

Thanks,
Stephen Whiteh
nfpkp@ducvax.Auburn.edu
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Date:         Mon, 14 Sep 1992 08:40:47 PDT
From:         lhdsy1!HOVMB.HOU281.CHEVRON.COM!TKMARC@UUNET.UU.NET
Subject:      Let's drop it

>According to the same source (udalosti komentare on federal TV) the rate
>of unemployment is expected to reach 10% in CR. It still remains the half
>of 20% in SR.
>It seems to be the most serious argument why the reconstruction of slovak
>industry has to be guided by slovak goverment.
>(The last sentence is my private oppinion)
>
>Marian Kubaska

I suppose you don't want to see the point.

The point is that percentages were used to compare the unemployment
rates among Slovakia, Czech lands, and other European countries, with
a degree of inaccuracy, which I pointed out. That seems to bother you
only when it concerns Slovaks.

But I suppose everyone is sick and tired of this issue by now so let's
close it.

--Kamil Marcinka (Internet address: tkmarc@hovmb.ion.chevron.com)
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Date:         Wed, 9 Sep 1992 03:19:40 MDT
From:         Milan PALUS <PCPMP@CSEARN.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: "Re: Constitution of Slovak republic"
              8 Sep 1992 12:32:06 METDST from <usarmase@SAVBA.CS>

>Mr.M.Palus wrote:
>> ... Personal attacks are not speciality of SLOVAK NATIONALISTS only.
>> ...
>
>O.K. It is specialty of all nationalists, but not only of nationalists.
>Of fundamentalists too, etc. etc. However, personal attack is not the
>best direction of discussion.
>Martin Masek,Bratislava

I agree. I intended my note more generally for this list and
practically in absolute agreement with your above remark.
BTW, what do you think, is your assignement of Mr. Szelepczenyi
as a nationalist a personal attack or not ?
Best regards,
Milan Palus
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Date:         Wed, 9 Sep 1992 04:55:23 -0400
Reply-To:     hoffmann@urzdfn.kartographie.TU-DRESDEN.DBP.DE
From:         hoffmann@URZDFN.KARTOGRAPHIE.TU-DRESDEN.DBP.DE
Subject: Re: Slovak national interests

Marian (in BB):

I couldn't find in your suggestions yours (CR + SR) role within Europe >93...

Here, a Saxonia newspaper wrote that the Sax. government will make closer
relations now to Bohemia region. What will be the new outer relations at
Slovakia region (in all geographic directions), e.g. Ukraina, Poland, Hungary,
Austria, Moravia etc.?
---
To colleagues at UNIBA:
I got a direct connection to <pflan16@nsf.uniba...> but still waiting for a
confirmation for 2 weeks now... what could be the problem there?
Is this account alife and working???

Frank Hoffmann, TU Dresden
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Date:         Tue, 8 Sep 1992 12:32:06 METDST
From:         Masek <usarmase@SAVBA.CS>
Subject:      Re: "Re: Constitution of Slovak republic"

Mr.M.Palus wrote:
> ... Personal attacks are not speciality of SLOVAK NATIONALISTS only.
> ...

O.K. It is specialty of all nationalists, but not only of nationalists.
Of fundamentalists too, etc. etc. However, personal attack is not the
best direction of discussion.
Martin Masek,Bratislava
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Date:         Mon, 14 Sep 1992 10:45:30 -0400
From:         hoffmann@URZDFN.KARTOGRAPHIE.TU-DRESDEN.DBP.DE
Subject:      our % ...

Marian, the Dresden region has an average of 15 %.   - FH
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Date:         Sat, 5 Sep 1992 18:22:04 PDT
From:         lhdsy1!HOVMB.HOU281.CHEVRON.COM!TKMARC@UUNET.UU.NET
Subject:      Books

I just came across two excellent books that might be of interest:

Johnson, Paul: Modern Times--from the Twenties to the Nineties.

History of the 20th century written by a well-known
British author. Interesting chapters on the formation of USSR. Not
just descriptive history, but a lot of interpretation. I understand
it came out in CSFR recently, not sure which language.

Fukuyama, Francis: The End of History and the Last Man.

The author argues that after both communism and fascism have been
discredited as ideologies, liberal democracy remains the only
viable alternative for successfull society. Fascinating reading.
Caused a lot of debate here in the US when it first came out last
year.

--Kamil Marcinka (Internet address: tkmarc@hovmb.ion.chevron.com)
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Date:         Wed, 9 Sep 1992 07:44:43 +0100
From:         KUBASKA@CSBBYS51.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Rates of Unemployment

Kamil,
the question about numbers is quite misleading. There is huge hidden unemploymen
   t in slovak (so far not privatised) industry.
The unemployment is expected to climb over 20% in SR after adopting bancrupcy
law.
You should remember the half-market-half-state kind of economy of SR in this
stage before operating with per cents. I have no doubts that numbers you
brought are right, but I found it incorect to aply the same criterions over
two different things.

Marian Kubaska
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Date:         Sat, 5 Sep 1992 20:50:04 PDT
From:         lhdsy1!HOVMB.HOU281.CHEVRON.COM!TKMARC@UUNET.UU.NET

Jan:

You mentioned that none of the Tiso celebrators are in the parliament.

It just occurred to me that I have read recently that Slota, the mayor
(or ex-mayor) of Zilina is in SNR. He is the author of the infamous
statement about "squishing as treators all of those who oppose the
idea of independent Slovakia" (vsetci ktori odporuju myslienke
nezavisleho Slovenska budu prevalcovani ako zradcovia).

Threatening people with steam-rollers is a pretty serious thing,
especially coming from a mayor of a relatively major city in Slovakia.
And the next thing I hear, he's an MP...

Could you please confirm if he indeed is an MP, and if he is, for
which party? Also, is your personal opinion of the whole incident?

--Kamil Marcinka (Internet address: tkmarc@hovmb.ion.chevron.com)
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Date:         Mon, 14 Sep 1992 08:27:25 +0100
From:         KUBASKA@CSBBYS51.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Untimely correction

According to the same source (udalosti komentare on federal TV) the rate
of unemployment is expected to reach 10% in CR. It still remains the half
of 20% in SR.
It seems to be the most serious argument why the reconstruction of slovak
industry has to be guided by slovak goverment.
(The last sentence is my private oppinion)

Marian Kubaska
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Date:         Mon, 7 Sep 1992 10:43:53 +0100
From:         KUBASKA@CSBBYS51.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Paradigm shift

I'm sorry for poor choose of words in my contribution.
Pass to your friend my appology.
Anyway, I would appreciate the chance to get in touch with him via the
net.

Kubaska    Kubaska@uakom.cs
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Date:         Mon, 14 Sep 1992 11:31:38 EST
From:         HAMMERL@UCS.INDIANA.EDU
Subject:      New York Times editorial

The following editorial appeared in the New York Times on 13
September 1992.

		Ugly Echoes in Slovakia

	Defenders of SLovak separatist Vladimir Meciar claim
that the foreign media are unfair to him, fastening in his
being an ex-Communist and an ex-prize fighter.  That misses
the point.  Alexander Dubcek, who led Czechoslovkia during
the Prague Spring of 1968, is also a Slovak and an
ex-Communist, yet he is uniformly praised by the foreign
press.  No one would ever confuse him with the Meciar known
to the world as slavish supporter of the old hard-line
Communist regime.
	Mr. Meciar wants to end the 70-year-old Czechoslovak
federation in a fast, painless divorce.  If that doesn't
happen, the Slovak Prime Minister adds ominously,
"spontaneous developments may set in and we wouldn't be able
to keep them under control."  Human rights monitors in
Bratislava are already getting a taste of those
"spontaneous" acts in the form of blunt warnings, even death
threats.
	A Slovak official last week told the Human Movement,
which along with Charter 77 monitors rights abuses, that it
was high time to "shut up."  Augustin Marian Huska, deputy
chariman of the Slovak National Council, charged in a
warning letter that the Movement acts "as a fifth column to
foreign interests, a fifth column that has the audacity and
cheek to continue verbal provocations."
	In Slovakia's Communist years, words like that
signified an imminent purge.  In Slovakia's earlier
incarnation, as a Nazi puppet state, such talk prefigured
detention and murder.  There are hardly any Slovak Jews, but
the republic does have 600,000 ethnic Hungarians, as well as
gypsies and ethnic Ukrainians.  When Mr. Meciar insists that
the Hungarian-speakers should enjoy no special rights, it
sounds to them very much like a warning to assimilate, or
else.
	Perhaps the world misunderstands.  Slovaks have long
yearned for greater respect, especially from
sometimes-overbearing Czechs.  Mr. Meciar's would-be state
seeks--and will need--foreign good will and investment.  But
the way to gain that respect is to stop snarling at human
rights advocates, and to stop threatening "spontaneous"
protests unless Slovakia gets its uncompromising way.
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Date:         Tue, 8 Sep 1992 12:37:17 PDT
From:         lhdsy1!HOVMB.HOU281.CHEVRON.COM!TKMARC@UUNET.UU.NET
Subject:      Rates of Unemployment

I recall that someone said recently that the unemployment rate in
Slovakia was 11% and that this was the highest rate in Europe, or
among the highest rates, I don't recall the exact wording.
WSJ 9/8/92 p. A17 reports that it is over 17% in Ireland; also,
I understand it is also around 17% in Portugal.

This is not to say that 11% isn't high, but it would have to climb up
another 50% to start reaching the levels of the highest rates of
unemployment in Europe.

--Kamil Marcinka (Internet address: tkmarc@hovmb.ion.chevron.com)
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Date:         Sun, 13 Sep 1992 15:13:43 PDT
From:         lhdsy1!HOVMB.HOU281.CHEVRON.COM!TKMARC@UUNET.UU.NET
Subject:      Untimely correction

>Subject: Re: Rates of Unemployment
>Kamil,
>the question about numbers is quite misleading. There is huge hidden
>unemploymen
>   t in slovak (so far not privatised) industry.
>The unemployment is expected to climb over 20% in SR after adopting bancrupcy
>law.
>You should remember the half-market-half-state kind of economy of SR in this
>stage before operating with per cents. I have no doubts that numbers you
>brought are right, but I found it incorect to aply the same criterions over
>two different things.
>
>Marian Kubaska

I'm surprised that you didn't point this out to whoever was originally
saying that unemployment in Slovakia was among the highest in Europe,
because they also mentioned that the rate was only 4% in the Czech
lands. Undoubtedly, your reasoning above applies to that part of
CSFR as well...

--Kamil Marcinka (Internet address: tkmarc@hovmb.ion.chevron.com)
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Date:         Tue, 15 Sep 1992 07:22:13 +0100
From:         KUBASKA@CSBBYS51.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Let's drop it

Take this contribution as my final posting to this problem.
>that seems to bother yuo only when it concerns Slovaks.
Yes. I'm Slovak, so why should bother me the unemployement in Bohemia,
Germany,...? The unemployment in SR (not in CR,GB,USA,...) affects my
life. It is indeed interesting to compare SR with other European countries,
but there is no reason to mix myself up to their problems.

Marian Kubaska
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