From: rboudrie@chpc.org (Rob Boudrie)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: More on dry firing
Date: 18 Dec 92 01:56:16 GMT
Organization: Center For High Perf. Computing of WPI; Marlboro Ma

In article <9212171839.AA18736@scorpio.ic.cmc.ca> keith@orioncmc.ca (Keith de Solla) writes:
50                                                               ^^
                                                         Canadian Domain
#In article <1992Dec16.075612.29021@netcom.com>, pauly@netcom.com (Paul Yoshimune) writes:
                                                              ^^^
                                                          US Domain

#|> In article <1992Dec16.014824.12112@ttinews.tti.com> hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath) writes:
#|> #Well, _I'm_ going to use the decocker lever as God and SIG intended, rules
#|> #or no rules.
#|> #

If you want to be welcome at future matches, you should consider following 
the instructions of the range officer unless they compromise safety (which 
means an incompetent RO) or damage your equipment.

A shooter who will not follow the reasonable instructions of the range
officer is a potential safety hazard to everyone present - if you take
a "rules or no rules" attitude at one of my matches, you will be politely
told that you have a choice of following the rules of confining your role
that of spectator.

#|> #Harumph! (-:
#|> #
#|> #(Seriously, would this be a rules violation?  Sounds pretty silly, if so).
#|> 

Disobeying instructions of the range officer is indeed a rule violation.

#|> Actually, not silly at all.  The point of "show clear, hammer down, holster"
#|> is to make the gun safe.  Showing clear makes sure there is no round in the
#|> chamber.  Hammer down (using the trigger) makes *damn* sure there is no round
#|> in the chamber.  Note that even though the RO checks the chamber, if you drop
#|> the hammer and it goes bang, you get DQ'd.
                                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^
#
#I was told at my IPSC Black Badge course that if the gun goes bang when the RO
(note: Black Badge is the Canadian IPSC training course)
#tells you to drop the hammer, it is HIS/HER fault as they checked the chamber
#and you would not get DQ'd.
               ^^^^^^^^^^^^
#
#|> 

You're both right!!! (or both wrong, depending on where you are) :

The Canadian/IROA (International Range Officer's Assn) position on this is that
it is a range officer failure, and the competitor is not dq'ed.  The justify this
by interpreting the rule book as dq'ing the competitor for a discharge while
loading or unloading, and that the competitor is no longer unloading at the time
of the gun clear/hammer down instruction.

This position is explained by the presideint of IPSC Canada, Lorne Rowe, in a
recent (within the past year) issue of the IROA newsletter.

The US position (as mentioned in their literature, and confirmed by John Amidon,
USPSA Area 7 director, USPSA board member, and NROI (National Range Officer's 
Institute) instructor is that it is a dq'able offense.  He also went on to mention
that it is NEVER appropriate to accept that the competitor with the gun is 
somehow "not responsible" for discharges of the weapon.  John told me that 
someone was dq'ed at this year's nationals for a discharge after being given
the gun-clear-hammer-down-holster command.  The RO felt absolutely terrible,
but the competitor was legitimately out of the game.

I know and respect both Lorne and John, but I happen to agree with John's position
on this one.

#|> When using the decocker, you nullify the safety check the hammer drop is 
#|> intended for.  By USPSA (and IPSC, I believe) rules, the hammer *must* drop
#|> by function of the trigger.

This is procedure only if the gun will function that way - some guns with magazine
disconnect safeties will not unless a mag is inserted first (thereby creating
an "is the mag really empty?" risk).  This falls more under the subject of 
"proper procedure" rather than USPSA rule - there is nothing I could find in the
rulebook which specifies that the hammer must be dropped by a trigger pull.

#|> DVC,
#|>   Paul

I am match director for a major IPSC match this coming spring (stay tuned for
details).  Since there will be international competitors present, I will 
certainly advise them as to the US position on this issue before the match
so there will be no "surprise dq's".

#-------------------------------------------------------------------
#| Keith P. de Solla        |  "Be sure brain is engaged before    |
#| CMC                      |   putting mouth in gear"             |
#| keith@orion.ic.cmc.ca    |                                      |
#
#


                                        rob boudrie
                                        rboudrie@chpc.org