From: shannah@netcom.com (Teri Miller)
Subject: Re: Nice Guys?
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 06:55:38 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

In article <5811@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> gswst@cislabs.pitt.edu (Gary S. Wachs) writes:
>>In article <jxvnggm.slf@netcom.com>, slf@netcom.com (Sharon Fisher) writes:
>>
>>> As a wise woman friend of mine once said (meaning, "I can't remember
>>> her name"), "Being *nice* is not enough."  Okay, fine, you're *nice*.
>>> But you also need to be *interesting*.  
>>
>WEEELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL I see we've once again dropped into the
>bottomless pit of oversimplified advice-giving...
>
>[simplistic advice to take acting classes and adopt personas deleted]

>Well, if you find that being "nice" and "interresting" helps, then so be it.

Gee, Gary, that was the most deep and complex advice I've seen given on
this newsgroup for, well, almost the last 30 seconds!

Good grief.

You may think that Pooh's advice, as quoted by Sharon above, is 
oversimplified, but it is true, and is easy to remember.  There are
a number of women out there, myself included, who want a man who is
kind, but interesting.  It's easy enough to find someone who is nice,
but finding someone who can talk about more than one or two subjects
is more difficult.  Why date someone who can't hold our interest?

More times than I could count, men have posted here, talking about
someone that they are interested in, who isn't interested in them.
They wax poetic about how nice they were to this woman, and how she
just didn't appreciate them.

When asked about the relationship, generally the sorts of things that
come out are:

He did many things for her and didn't ask for much, if anything, in
    return.
He tried to be available whenever possible.
Most of the conversation revolved around her problems.
She gave mixed signals, seeming interested at times, and not other times.
His interests are limited to a few, or he talks about them rarely.
He did everything he could think of to win her love, regardless of how
   good for him those things were.
She wound up falling instead for some "asshole".

The thing is, if two people get together, and they are true to their
own selves, chances are high that they are not going to be a perfect
fit.  Some things about each are going to bother the other.  A "nice
guy" is likely to see the woman's complaints about thoughtless things
her new beau does as evidence of the "fact" that the guy is a creep.
After all, he would treat her so much better, right?

Not really.  He might be nicer.  He might try harder not to hurt her
feelings.  He might be more apt to give her what she wants.  But he
is likely to bend himself out of shape to try to accomodate her.  I
think many women would find it hard to really trust a guy like that,
one who changes with her moods, and doesn't stand up to her.  Further,
it's just not that interesting.  

As an example, my husband and I just took a vacation.  It was somewhat
difficult to decide where to go.  I found it somewhat frustrating.  A
"nice guy" would have probably just gone along with my suggestions, but
Ray didn't.  I'm glad he didn't.  Because, in the end, we agreed to go
to New Orleans, a place that wasn't on the original wish list, and we
had a fabulous time.  A better time, I believe, than we would have had
at any of my first choice locations.

I know that at least one "nice guy" thinks Ray is a creep, because he
told me so.  Why?  Because sometimes Ray does things and I get upset
and cry about them.  Because he isn't always thinking of how I'm
going to feel about what he's doing every minute of the day.  Because
just by being with him, sometimes I get hurt.

That's what growth is all about.  Sometimes Ray is hurt by the things 
I do, too.  Neither of us is perfect.  But life is a wonderful thing,
worth living, and often very exciting, being Ray's wife.  Were he to
try to be what he thinks I want him to be, it might be easier, but it
wouldn't be nearly so fun and exciting.

I'll take fun, exciting, *interesting*, thank you.

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