HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: his@the-temple.East.Sun.COM (Howard Solomon - SunExpress Support Engineer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: WARNING: Stealth African Marauding soc.motss
Date: 14 Oct 92 13:40:48 GMT
Reply-To: his@the-temple.East.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems
NNTP-Posting-Host: the-temple.east.sun.com

In article 8920@wam.umd.edu, lovegod@wam.umd.edu (Donald Andrew Agarrat) writes:
>In article <1bf0vkINN150@seven-up.East.Sun.COM> his@the-temple.East.Sun.COM  
>(Howard Solomon - SunExpress Support Engineer) writes:
>} Another rhetorical question I would like to ask is why the black and Jewish
>} communities have such problems getting along.  From what I understand, they
>} used to be strong allies.  I am not sure if anyone has the answer or if it is
>} relevant to motss, but it has concerned me for a long time.
>
>Where are Jews on the whole now?  Are there proportionally as many Blacks  
>sending their children off to school as there are Jews?  I don't think so!   
>Yeah, we used to be such strong allies.  Maybe that was before Jews start  
>sending their children to American universities where they quickly learn what  
>it is to be White.  Maybe that's when they started seeing Blacks through White  
>eyes, with the same disgust and disrespect ...
>
>Donald - Nigger Stompin' African!


How dare you!  I have tried to have this as a reasonable discussion and am
desperately trying to hold on to that.  You, however, have nothing better to do
than to attack.  It's very interesting to see that in a relationship that has 
deteriorated, the fault must be "THEM" not "US".  Brandeis, my alma mater, was
created in 1948 because Jewish students and teachers could not get into good
schools for discriminatory reasons.  Sounds like why many of the black colleges
were created, I suspect.  Yes, there is prejudice in the Jewish community.  Just
as there is in the black community, and they gay/lesbian community, etc.  As for
the reasons why more Jews go to school than blacks, there are many possible reasons
and many of them DO NOT relate to racism in this country.  Try looking inward instead
of outward once in a while.  It might prove educational.  Also, maybe anti-Semitic
statements from prominent blacks such as Jesse Jackson fueled the fire in the
deterioration of the relationship?  Scratch that maybe.

Howard


========================================================================
Howard I. Solomon			|ELECTION '92
Software Support Engineer, SunExpress	|Hold your nose and vote for Bill!
his@east.sun.com			|
=========================================================================
From: laura@hoptoad.uucp (Laura Creighton)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Fresh from the oven
Date: 17 Oct 92 03:55:51 GMT
Reply-To: laura@hoptoad.UUCP (Laura Creighton)
Organization: Nebula Consultants in San Francisco

In article <5383@rosie.NeXT.COM> ltucker@next.com writes:
>Why am I posting all of this?   Why does the net need yet another  
>coming out story?

Because there aren't enough of them.  Because this very story
may give somebody else the strength to come out.  Because it
makes a lot of us who are doing stuff feel that what we are
doing is worth it.

99.99% of of the joy in your coming out is yours, and yours alone.
0.01% is possible to share.  But that 0.01% goes around a LONG,
LONG, LONG, way -- and can bring folks like me to the brink of 
tears just to read it.
-- 
    Since Ryan White was buried in April 1990, his grave has been vandalized
    four times.

    (this news courtesy Rod Williams rjwill6@pacbell.com)

Laura Creighton 
toad@toad.com
hoptoad!laura
From: pfohl@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Anne Pfohl)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Ann Lander's YUCK!
Date: 16 Oct 92 14:55:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Oct15.012920.7357@spdcc.com>, 
		dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes...

>In article <1992Oct14.175729.23809@rtsg.mot.com> 
		houser@rtsg.mot.com (Elizabeth J. Houser) writes:
>>Jess - would you mind defining "straight-acting lesbian," please?
>>Let me guess - stereotypical bimbo - bleached bonde hair, implants,
>>gobs of makeup, pounds of jewelry, brainless, spends all of her
>>time shopping...

> 
>You mean a femme? :-)
> 

Ooops!  Sh*t, I almost smudged my lipstick!

>-- 
>Steve Dyer
>dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer

Anne, de-muffined again, in a way

Anne H. Pfohl			|  Of course these opinions are 
University at Buffalo		|  mine and mine alone...
Computing Center		|
pfohl@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu
From: jns@elea.umd.edu (J. N. Shaumeyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: What adjectives do you think best describe romantic jealous
Date: 9 Oct 92 05:19:57 GMT
Organization: Militant Homosexual Lobby, Gay Lifestyles, Inc.


George Dalton Madison (Furr@cup.portal.com):
 
> Jealousy is an idiotic emotion.  I might *envy* a lover for
> making it with someone we both lusted after, but being 
> jealous over it is just too ridiculous for words.
> 
> Of course, I'm sure this will get me a copy of the "insensitive
> cretin" tag.

Wrong.  I can only love a man who knows the
difference between 'envy' and 'jealousy'.

And I *always* enquire after the dietary
preferences of a prospective dinner companion.

So there.

--jns
From: cbe@unlinfo.unl.edu (cbe)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: The Unwritten Law
Date: 15 Oct 1992 05:45:47 GMT
Organization: University of Nebraska--Lincoln	
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: unlinfo.unl.edu

>In article <1992Oct13.035211.18629@netcom.com>
>jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton) writes:

>>>Then, some people react to this cognitive dissonance with an "aha!"
>>>and realize the the whole line they've been fed is a crock of
>>>silliness, say their final fuck-yous to their co-religionist
>>>tormentors, and get on with their lives free at last of all
>>>that nonsense.

>>Alas, if only it were that easy.
        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

This kind of response always puzzles me.  In my long-ago adolescence I
tried mightily to be a good Christian.  This entailed detailed study 
of the Bible.  As I read it I could not help but be overwhelmed with 
the inconsistencies and what I felt to be moral contradictions.  In 
high school I had long discussions with several ministers but found 
that the rationalizations for the inconsistencies and their lack of 
knowledge of then current scholarship only served to further undermine
my belief.  After almost obsessively thinking about the problem for 
some weeks, it became clear that at least *I* had been in a delusional
state.  Further, I understood that there are those who must have 
something external to themselves to justify their lives.  Others crave
authority.  Some require certainty.  Many cannot face the oblivion 
that death implies.  Further study in other religions seemed to 
enforce the idea that all the Bible presented was another set of 
myths.  Had I been born an aboriginal Australian, then the walkabout 
would be at the heart of my mythology.  It all seemed so clear.  
Letting go was as easy as understanding a simple Euclidian proof.

Perhaps more than anything, it was the various organized church and 
temple condemnations of homosexuality that forced my serious 
consideration of my then faith.  I felt no evil, no sin in my state.  
And as I read scripture as carefully as I could, and also studied other
works, both Christian and free-thinking, the kernel of uncertainty 
planted by church homophobia grew into the certainty of disbelief. 

Lest the fires of motss Hell be turned upon me, I hasten to emphasize 
that the above is *my* personal experience.  It reflects my own 
conclusions, misguided as they may be.  While *I* cannot understand 
those who require a religion (in the popular sense), I certainly cannot 
question their need of it. 

It dawns on me that the response that puzzles me probably has rather 
little to do with religion and much to do with an individual's 
psychology.  The constitution of some is quite tradition bound while 
others feel compelled to be iconoclasts.  Religion will serve either.
Not, of course, that these are the only possibilities.

Colburn Eigen                            H|u> = E|u>
(stopping while he is behind)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Mike Reaser)
Subject: Re: Ah, Fashion.
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 14:09:18 GMT
Organization: a stone mountain of Kudzu

In <mattm-061092143948@mcmelmon.apple.com> mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon) writes:

>There are a number of situations where arriving in a $2,500 dollar suit
>will confer upon you a different treatment than arriving in an old
>grey sweater and tenis shoes.  Fine restaurants.  Banks.  Job interviews.
>First dates.  Proms.  Public speaking events.  In fact, in most
>interactions
>with strangers, there is often a desire to "look one's best."  This
>basic reality is somewhat muted in the computer industry, where 'nerds'
>often exult in anti-fashion statements.  But even in anti-fashion 
>companies, there remain divisions which adhere very strongly to the
>'dress code.'  IBM springs immediately to mind.  Marketing types have 
>always been known as 'suits.'  On Wall Street, one does not see Gordon
>Gekko aspirants shopping and Penny's and whipping out the flannel for
>nights at Four Seasons.

Sure, there are situations where a suit is practically a prescribed
uniform.  However, I got the impression from your previous posting that
simply because you blew $2,500 on your suit (as opposed to $300-400
at Macy's) this instantly conferred on you a respect which would not
have otherwise been granted.

To me, a suit is a suit is a suit.  If you want to support pricey,
"name" designers, fine.  Just don't expect me to instantly bow at your
entrance, simply because you paid 8-10 times as much for your suit 
than I did for mine.

As I said, respect is earned, not demanded.


>I would hope this concept is nothing new to you...

As I would hope it is not to you, either...

>Melmothra, ACC


=======================================================================
 Mike Reaser, Hewlett-Packard N. Amer. Resp. Ctr. - Atlanta
 Internet:  mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com
 NBCS: B4 f w g+ k s-               I barely speak for myself, so
 #include <standard.disclaimer>       don't make me speak for HP
=======================================================================
From: mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Impending absence (mine)
Date: 15 Oct 92 12:35:34 GMT
Organization: (getting there)

I expect to be away from the net for a little while now.  I'm not
sure just how long it will be; maybe just a couple of days.

Tomorrow I'm (mostly) moving out of the apartment where I've lived
since May 1969.  I'm not moving out entirely until after the
election, so my registration won't change, but I'll be settling
into a slightly larger place four blocks up the street.  (For those
of you who have my telephone number, it won't change.)

Except for the couple of years that I stayed in married student
housing at Princeton, this is the only home I've known in my adult
life.  Marty moved in with me in stages, in 1971-72.  Our new home
is a co-op that we've bought together.  That's a nice feeling.

Anyhow, I'm full up with an assortment of emotions.  When I think
about living _there_ I'm very happy about it.  We'll have more
space-- including closet space.  We have a real kitchen, with a
dishwasher, even!  (I expect that we'll use it once or twice a year
but it's very handy when you're unpacking the glasses that you
wrapped in inky newspaper to keep them from breaking.)  We'll have
much more light, and almost-a-view.  (We can see a tiny bit of the
Hudson River and the George Washington Bridge.  Yesterday, while I
was waiting for the phone to be installed, I heard pipers and looked
out the window to discover a bit of a parade going by in Riverside
Park.)

But when I think about _not_ living here any more I get knots in my
stomach.  This morning Marty left for work from this apartment for
the last time; tomorrow is moving day, and that requires both of us.
This is, and has been, my base of operations for a lot of
developments.  It's so familiar-- the neighbors (whose names I
generally don't know), the quirks of the elevator, the traffic
noises, the doormen, the super...  Not that it's good or bad-- it
just *is*, as it has been, and now as it will be-- but without us.
Not even sad so much as weird.

Anyhow, the catch is that Panix is also moving, and I don't know 
exactly when that will happen or how smoothly it will go.  I trust
my panixite friends to keep me apprised of developments on that
front.  

ObMotss: ???  But if not here, where?
Thanks to those of you who have been sending us your good wishes
(birthday, moving, et al).  Thanks to those of you who have been
writing interesting stuff.  Congratulations to those of you who have
taken coming out steps, and to those of you who are about to
(whether you know it yet or not).


Mara [really signing off now]




-- 

  Mara Chibnik
  mara@panix.com                Life is too important to be taken seriously.
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Why you people alienate so many...
Date: 15 Oct 92 19:24:59 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Oct15.192459.11340
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1992Oct15.163825.1543@PacBell.COM> rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams) writes:
>John Dorrance's debut managed to piss off even sweet ol'
>*me*.  I exited my customary Pollyanna mode to flame the
>young whippersnapper when he complained that a lesbian of
>his acquaintance was "too out" in public, and constantly
>embarrassed him...

Oh, my, I'd forgotten all about that.

Anyway, you're only as good as your last 5 postings.
The net is quick to forget, at least if you're at all
worth reading.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: mdrayton@sr.hp.com (Mike Drayton)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Elton John donating all royalties?
Date: 14 Oct 92 18:20:53 GMT
Article-I.D.: scd.Bw4Iyt.1Lp
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Clara Division
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1.1 PL5

Tim Russell (trussell@cwis.unomaha.edu) wrote:
> mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Mike Reaser) writes:
> 
> >I heard a radio news report (WGST, Atlanta) at 9:15 PM last night
> >that Elton John had announced he was donating all future royalties
> >from all his recordings to AIDS research.
> 
>     Yep, saw him give the statement, including beginning with the phrase
> "As a gay man, ..." on MTV's news show the other day.  It was quite cool.
> 
> --
I'm going to see his show in Sacramento on Oct. 31st.  Losing my
cherry -- it'll be my first rock concert ever! 

Mike Drayton      mdrayton@sr.hp.com       Hewlett-Packard Co.
                                           Santa Rosa, California
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance)
Subject: Re: Jason Priestley
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 09:21:53 GMT

mdrayton@sr.hp.com (Mike Drayton) writes:

>John Dorrance (thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu) wrote:
>> 
>> Quick! Who played in superbowl VII, who won, who was MVP?

>----------------
>BLAAAAAAAAAAAHHHT

>Hey, John!  Woodjez git me uh brewski longaz yer up?

(silently, John turns from the dishes piled high in the sink, steps
over the baby playing with... something... on the floor, gets a can
of Duff out of the stained fridge,  steps, with a practiced air, over
the babygate that separates the kitchen and the living room, off-
handedly smacks little Bobby because he probably deserves it, and
serves his Man. He puts his hand in the small of his back and leans
back, stretching, until with a kick, Mike indicates that he's blocking
the tube. So, wiping his hands on his apron, John returns to the
kitchen, dragging the baby from the trash, and stands before the sink
looking out at the barren backyard. He sings:

	If happy little bluebirds fly
	Above the rainbow,
	Why, oh why can't I?)

John, trying like mad to figure out exactly whose house he's got
in his mind as he writes this

--
John Dorrance * Alleged Homosexual/Shameless Hussy * thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu

			Dark. Handsome. 6 feet tall.
		  31 flavors? I believe he's got 'em all!
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Ah, Fashion.
Date: 8 Oct 92 05:38:24 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Oct8.053824.24335
Reply-To: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

In article <1992Oct7.160729.28914@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
>I am at a loss to understand what these testimonies mean, other than
>to state the obvious: this knowledge isn't innate, and even a college
>education isn't enough to guarantee a certain base of cultural
>literacy.

what I meant to say, by my testimony of ignorance of Marlene Dietrich,
is that she has not been a cultural icon for me. Apparantly she is not
for David. In my experience, she is not a cultural icon for anyone I
know of my generation, queer or straight, except one friend of mine
who specifically studied American film. I hate to say it folks, but
cultural iconism changes.

Now I have heard of Mae West, and have even attempted to use her as an
example for some point I was making. And I'm glad I know about Marlene
Dietrich now, for she is intersting. I'm looking forward to finally
seeing Blue Angel. The only thing I've seen of hers so far was in a
Hitchcock film. (if this point gets pressed much further, I might try
to shift the domain from Marlene Dietrich to Alfred Hitchcock films.)

Am I uncouth youth? Perhaps.

>Arne's point is that her apotheosis as an icon transcends individual
>familiarity as her image is appropriated into mass images of culture.

now this I agree with - she shaped a certain image, one which Madonna
(it can be argued) has appropriated, and one which (it can be argued)
Madonna does not carry as well as Marlene Dietrich did. (I would agree
with the former statement and have little basis to judge the latter,
although I'm inclined to be skeptical.)

>That you haven't heard of her or recognize her role may reflect sheer
>perversity, insularity or simple disinterest, but it's not
>particularly relevant in any case.

Should I trot out a list of my cultural icons, things that people I
know recognize, and then claim you are sheerly perverse, insulated, or
disinterested for not recognizing them? Icons change. The interesting
question is - what is common between the icons of different times?
                __
nelson@reed.edu \/                         I can live forever in formaldehyde
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: FA.JGS@forsythe.stanford.edu (Joe Shackelford)
Subject: FINAL NOTICE
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 22:30:04 GMT


   !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  JUST A REMINDER  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

FINAL NOTICE FINAL NOTICE FINAL NOTICE FINAL NOTICE FINAL NOTICE
      FINAL NOTICE FINAL NOTICE FINAL NOTICE FINAL NOTICE
            FINAL NOTICE FINAL NOTICE FINAL NOTICE
             FINAL NOTICE FINAL NOTICE FINAL
                   FINAL NOTICE FINAL
                         FINAL
 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
   !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
       !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



                THIS IS A FUN SHOW AND PROCEEDS
               ARE GOING FOR A VERY WORTHY CAUSE

     $$$$$$$$$$$$$   WE NEED YOUR SUPPORT  $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$



                  SOUTH BAY DRIVE SHAFTS

                        CAR CLUB

              GROOVIN' ON A SUNDAY AFTERNOON


October 16, 1992

Greetings from the South Bay Drive Shafts, a region of Lambda Car
Club International,  San Jose's only Gay and Lesbian special
interest antique car club.

After only one year, our membership has grown to seventy strong.  We
have participated in both  San Jose's pride parades, providing
classic vehicles for various VIP's, promoted and hosted tours to
various Bay Area points of interest, and have raised and
contributed several thousand dollars to local aids charities and
community service organizations.

The South Bay Drive Shafts recently participated in the 1992
International West Coast Auto Meet held in San Luis Obispo.  Well
over 500 members of similar auto organizations from all over the
country participated with hundreds of their classic autos.  As our
commitment to the weekends festivities, we presented the Friday
night show which was a musical tour of the 1960's.  This show
featured members of our club performing, both live and pantomine,
their favorite song and dance numbers associated with this era.  The
show was such a resounding success and word of it spread so quickly
that we have been asked to present this show as a benefit for our
local community.

The Procedes are to benefit Visting Nurses, Aris Food Basket and
Necessities and More.

Where: Gaslight Theater
       400 East Campbell Avenue
       In Beautiful Downtown Campbell
       The Valleys Fastest Growing Ghost Town

Where to call:  408-977-4288 OR 408-292-5682

When: October 18, 1992
      Mattinee Performance at 2pm
      Evening Preformance at 8pm

Cost: $10.00
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Re: Dietrich, Madonna, etc.
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 15:18:14 GMT

In article <1992Oct10.013802.13204@adobe.com> asente@adobe.com (A Usenet Pal) writes:
>>>I find quite amusing the claim that cultural icons must be
>>>timeless.  If this is true, who are the cultural icons from the 1800's?
>>
>>Oh nobody much.  Just Beethoven, Pushkin, Liszt, Dostoevsky,
>>and a smattering of painters.  Inconsequential stuff like that.
>
>Important cultural figures, certainly, but hardly cultural icons.

_Pushkin_ not a cultural icon?  Oscar Wilde also comes to mind.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: wood@siemens.com. (Jim Wood)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Jason Priestly
Date: 14 Oct 92 19:42:16 GMT
Distribution: na

mconte@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Marc Vincent Conte) writes:

>If you look closely, though, you'll notice that Jason could
>do very good drag.

Ya mean that's not drag ?????????

--
Jim Wood [jwood@siemens.siemens.com] (609) 734-3643
"Rise up on the wings of eagles, and two step among the stars.
 You are not forgotten.  Your smile will echo forever."
   -- Ryerson Schwark, to our friend Rob Bernardo.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: max@athena.mit.edu (Max Meredith Vasilatos)
Subject: Re: Dietrich, Madonna, etc.
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 00:23:08 GMT

adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:

>Reagan a *cowboy*?  Reagan has only ever hoisted his fat
>ass into a saddle when a camera's been rolling.  You've
>got to be joking. 

From what I've seen, Reagan's behind is not nearly
large enough to deserve the compliment "fat ass."

Max
max@athena.mit.edu
From: jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Culture (was Re: Ah, Fashion.)
Date: 9 Oct 92 00:01:25 GMT
Article-I.D.: netcom.1992Oct9.000125.12395
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <mattm-081092094545@mcmelmon.apple.com> mattm@apple.com (Matthew 
Melmon) writes:
>
>Ah, senility.  Such an ugly thing in a queen.  But it can be kind.
>They do, at least, forget what they aren't getting.

Matthew, why are you so nasty to people?  What do you get out of it? 

>Yes, to have voted for
>Reagan required, by Jezibel's calculation, I be in my thirties.

Good try at using the subjunctive, but you need "that" to make it a clause.
I don't think you can omit it in that case and still be grammatical. 

-- 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Hamilton   jfh@netcom.com   P. O. Box 281107   SF, CA   94128-1107