HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: watson@madvax.uwa.oz.au (David Watson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
Subject: Re: canadian subway
Date: 12 Jan 1993 23:38:21 GMT
Organization: Maths Dept UWA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: xanthorrhoea.maths.uwa.oz.au

In article <1993Jan12.001425.25314@ucl.ac.uk>, uctlxpd@ucl.ac.uk (Peter Bartlett) writes:
|> drukier@mail.ast.cam.ac.uk (Gordon Drukier) writes:
|> >In article 10290@philmtl.philips.ca, ray@philmtl.philips.ca (Ray Dunn) writes:
|> >>
|> >>I know of no other city that you can board a bus, do your business at the
|> >>other end, and _return_ home on the same fare (other than by buying a
|> >>return or two-way ticket of course), and who can imagine a 50 kilometer
|> >>journey in, say, London, for 60 pence?
|> 
|> >In Vancouver, as of about a year or more ago, the fare gets you a 90+ minute
|> >transfer (often up to 2 hours) for unlimited travel.  I think that San Francisco
|> >has a similar system on the buses there.
|> 
|> So does Rome, and (if memory serves) various other Italian cities.

Also the case here in the most remote capital city in the world, Perth, WA
Go anywhere and re-board within two hours.

-- 
Dave Watson                          Internet: watson@maths.uwa.edu.au
Department of Mathematics            
The University of Western Australia               Tel: (61 9) 380 3359
Nedlands, WA 6009  Australia.                     FAX: (61 9) 380 1028
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
From: uctlxpd@ucl.ac.uk (Peter Bartlett)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,can.politics
Subject: Re: 500 New Jobs Per Day
Keywords: recession, jobs
Date: 13 Jan 93 00:42:01 GMT
Organization: Bloomsbury Computing Consortium

carlos@morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Miguel Borges) writes:

>sitomlin@cantor.math.uwaterloo.ca (Stephen I. Tomlinson) writes:
>>Statistics Canada reports that Canada's seasonally adjusted employment 
>                                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>rose by 102,000 jobs in the last five months of 1992.  That's a pace
>>exceeding 500 new jobs per day.

>"Seasonally adjusted" - What a great term.

>It means that the new unemployment rate does not count those who are
>unemployed now and were unemployed at the same time last year.

>So, if you're jobless, but were jobless last January, then the government
>does not consider you "unemployed".  Even if you do receive UI.

>If applied to Newfoundland, for example, the "seasonally un-adjusted"
>unemployment rate would probably be as high as 50 or 60%.

>I love statistics.  And the way they are used to hide the truth from us.

The way it's done here in the UK is even kinkier-- it's based solely
on whether you are in receipt of a specific benefit type.  Thus if you're
under 18, you can't be unemployed since you can't get the benefit (Mrs.
Thatcher made LOTS of unemployed disappear when she raised the age from
16 to 18, not to mention cutting out lots of pounds in payments.  More
kids on the street-- but who cares! [rather sarcastic :)]  Nor if you're
over 60 (you're deemed to be retired).  Nor if your spouse is too
rich (which makes you ineligible for the benefit).  Nor (I think-- less
sure of this one) if you're disabled (you get a different benefit).

Thus while the papers talk about unemployment here approaching 3 million,
my friends who work in the treasury talk about unemployment already
surpassing 4 million.

peter
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
Subject: Re: New DND Min
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 05:13:00 GMT

In article <29483@oasys.dt.navy.mil> absmith@oasys.dt.navy.mil writes:
>Would anyone care to comment on the appointment of the
>new Min for DND?

She's Mulroney's most likely successor as leader of the Progressive
Conservative Party...but there is a good chance that that means she
will be the next leader of the Opposition.

This move is designed to move her out of the controversial position
of Justice Minister, to a position where she can become up to date
on foreign policy issues, and to enable her to speak to an entirely
new audience, and to let that audience get to know her, and to 
provide lot's of good photo-ops with the troops, and at NATO
meetings and the like...and, of course, to control the delivery
of military pork.

She's ambitious and competent...slightly tinged with the political
correctness of the boom generation, but probably less so than most
boomers.  There are a lot worse alternatives. 

Gerald
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
From: jeanmarc@Ingres.COM (Jean-Marc Fortier)
Subject: Re: canadian subway
Reply-To: jeanmarc@squid.ingres.com (Jean-Marc Fortier)
Organization: Ingres, The ASK Group
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: 8 Jan 93 16:53:18 GMT

Daniel Burstein (dannyb@panix.com) wrote:
: If I might bother my Canadian neighbors for a second: I recall far too
: many years ago riding the ?Montrea? ?Toronto? subway and being impressed
: by itsrubber wheels.
: 
: Can anyone advise 1) which city thiswas, and 2) whether it still uses
: rubber tires for wheels.

	In Montreal, is the answer to this one. They do change the
	tires (you know : flats, ....)   ;-)


	Jean-Marc
From: yt1@eng.cam.ac.uk (Y. Tremblay)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
Subject: Re: Unique, eh?
Date: 12 Jan 93 09:30:18 GMT
Organization: Cambridge University Engineering Department, UK

In article <1993Jan11.024454.1@vxdesy.desy.de> godfrey@vxdesy.desy.de writes:
>In article <1993Jan9.020927.5639@philmtl.philips.ca>, ray@philmtl.philips.ca (Ray Dunn) writes:
>> This newsgroup is really quite unique.  I can think of no other that I read
>> regularly where I could expect to see all 22 new articles on the same
>> thread and by such a small number of people, as I saw today.  Although this
>> is an extreme example, soc.culture.canada always has a remarkably small
>> number of subject lines for the volume of postings.  How boring.
>> -- 
>> Ray Dunn at home        |  Beaconsfield, Quebec  |  Phone: (514) 630 3749
>> ray@philmtl.philips.ca  |  ray@cam.org           |  uunet!sobeco!philmtl!ray
>
>Does that surprise you for a group which concerns itself with Canadians?
>
>Laurence

[lots of other post commenting it deleted....]

No! No! No!   You didn't get it.  Why being angry about Laurence, he was just
saying that "this newsgroup is really quite unique" like the country... or
should we say "distinct"...  

:-) :-) 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,can.politics
From: bob1@cos.com (Bob Blackshaw)
Subject: Re: Unique, eh?
Organization: Corporation for Open Systems
Distribution: world 
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 15:51:21 GMT

In <1993Jan11.034008.2994@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA> bross@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Brian J Ross) writes:

>godfrey@vxdesy.desy.de (Laurence "I was fired from NRC" Godfrey) writes:
>: In article <1993Jan9.020927.5639@philmtl.philips.ca>, ray@philmtl.philips.ca (Ray Dunn) writes:
>: > This newsgroup is really quite unique.  I can think of no other that I read
>: > regularly where I could expect to see all 22 new articles on the same
>: > thread and by such a small number of people, as I saw today.  Although this
>: > is an extreme example, soc.culture.canada always has a remarkably small
>: > number of subject lines for the volume of postings.  How boring.
>: 
>: Does that surprise you for a group which concerns itself with Canadians?
>: 
>: Laurence

>Hey Larry! Tell us about yourself!
>Canada is boring; Larry Godfrey is interesting!

Not really, in fact one wonders when it will dawn on him that he
might be the problem. Laurence can't seem to get along with
anyone in the world, but it is the world that is at fault in
his never humble opinion.


>-- 
>Brian Ross                          
>bross@sandcastle.cosc.brocku.ca            

Bob
Xref: sparky soc.culture.canada:9971 can.politics:11435
From: clamen+@CS.CMU.EDU (Stewart Clamen)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,can.politics
Subject: Re: Property rights and the constitution
Date: 13 Jan 93 04:02:35 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.C0rxwE.H27.1
	<1993Jan9.002818.18084@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca>
	<C0KqLK.67E.1@cs.cmu.edu>
	<1993Jan10.015904.13560@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca>
Reply-To: clamen+@CS.CMU.EDU
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon University
Originator: clamen@BYRON.SP.CS.CMU.EDU

In article <1993Jan10.015904.13560@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca> golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy) writes:

   In article <C0KqLK.67E.1@cs.cmu.edu> clamen+@CS.CMU.EDU writes:
   >Gerald wrote:
   >   However, I don't want the constitutional right to property so
   >   absolutist that it prevents governments from acting at all, taxing
   >   at all, or making things like zoning, or environmental legislation
   >   impossible.
   >
   >May I ask a few more questions of you?  Assuming that individuals and
   >corporations could sue the governments (federal, provincial, regional,
   >civil) for property losses due to zoning and/or environmental
   >legislation, would the government in question be liable for the
   >previous value of the property?  (This is a reminiscent of a recent US
   >Supreme Court case, which, while finding for the plaintiff, refused to
   >generalize its ruling to apply to ALL changes in property value due to
   >the installation of environmental regulations.)
   >

   With regard to the environment, I would argue the right to property
   should include the right to sue for environment damage by the government
   to your land, but not to the loss of speculative value of the land because
   the legislature passed new environmental regulations.

   With regard to zoning, the right to property should include the right
   to sue for full market value if your property is expropriated, but
   I am not familiar enough with more general zoning, to decide where
   the line should be drawn.  I tend to lean to the view that land values
   are speculative like the stock market, and buyer beware with regard
   to zoning regulations is the appropiate market-oriented policy.
   However, one should have a measure of protection against arbitrary
   or inconsistent or prejudicial processes...if the zoning is can
   be demonstrate to not be part of an overall consistent general
   plan, but targetted at a specific company or individual.

How much of this do you think would need to be explicitly laid out in
the Charter of Rights and Freedoms?

--
Stewart M. Clamen			Internet:    clamen@cs.cmu.edu
School of Computer Science		UUCP: 	     uunet!"clamen@cs.cmu.edu"
Carnegie Mellon University		Phone: 	     +1 412 268 2145
5000 Forbes Avenue			Fax:	     +1 412 681 5739
Pittsburgh, PA 15213-3891, USA
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,can.politics
From: godfrey@vxdesy.desy.de
Subject: Re: Abandoning the Politically Powerless
Organization: (DESY, Hamburg, Germany)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 02:48:49 GMT

In article <13782@grayt>, grayt@Software.Mitel.COM (Tom Gray) writes:
> 
> The Ontario (NDP) government has announced a policy of eliminating
> sheltered workshops for the developmentally handicapped (this is the
> latest euphemism for those who used to be called mentally retarded).
> 
> The government is eliminating the workshop programs in favour or
> "community" solutions. The government does not intend to define these
> solutions but will rely on the "community" to propose, plan, sponsor
> and administer programs which the government will then "fund".
> The government has provided no basis on what the philosophy or capability
> of these "community" programs will be. Instead the government has reduced
> the budget for sheltered workshops by 60%.
> 
> The government has apparently decided to cease providing services to this
> population and will instead provide politcally correct rhetoric on
> "community living". The government realizes that shletered workshops
> are a necessity as was admitted by the Minister of Social Services.
> They just do not want to pay for them and hope that the ill defined
> nebulous "community" will rally to support this group which is among the
> most helpless in society.
> 
> 
> There has been no announcement but the same policy of political rhetoric
> is now being planned for the psychiatrically diasabled as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> i.sinature

This is exactly the same policy as the British government introduced about
5 - 7 years ago.  It has been utterly disastrous, as has everything the
Tory government has done here

Laurence

Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,can.politics
From: schuck@fraser.sfu.ca (Bruce Jonathan Schuck)
Subject: Re: 500 New Jobs Per Day
Keywords: recession, jobs
Reply-To: Bruce_Schuck@sfu.ca
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 07:53:15 GMT

carlos@morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Miguel Borges) writes:

>schuck@fraser.sfu.ca (Bruce Jonathan Schuck) writes:
>>Really? Don't forget the immigration rate!

>>In 1984 the immigration limit was 50,000 per year -- 137 per day.

>>By 1992, the Tories had raised it to 250,000 per year -- 685 per day.

>>I know that all 685 of those people were not looking for work, but a
>>little simple math says that if jobs grow by 500/day and we let
>>685/day into the country, unemployment grows at 185/day.

>>There are other factors of course, like net population increase, etc,
>>but don't forget those 685/day immigrants!

>And don't forget that most studies on this subject have shown that
>immigrants generally pay more in taxes than they use in social services.
>That is, they have a positive impact on the public purse, as opposed to
>to a negative one.

And don't you forget that those studies were based on old data when
the immigrants were much better educated [on average] than Canadians.

The most recent studies have shown a huge rise in the classification
of "family reunification" immigrants who have a much lower level of
education than immigrants of the 60's and 70's, and consequently are
much more of a drain on the public purse.

I think Canada should return to the days of high quality immigration
with an emphasis on education and job skills.
From: plaws@uafhp.uark.edu (Peter Laws)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
Subject: Montreal Metro Ligne 3
Date: 12 Jan 1993 17:58:00 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

>>not used.  I don't have a map handy but I believe that the number 3
>>is missing (I'm not certain about this).  Anyone know why they 
>>skipped a number?
>
>i vaguely recall (and i could very well be wrong here) that they originally
>planned five lines but built only 4 for some reason and they didn't
>want to renumber them.
>
>btw in Boston the lines are given colours and one of them has 4 subroutes:
>they are named the Green Line B, C, D, and E routes... :^)
>but there never was an "A".

Well, actually Ligne 3 was going to be the CN Deux-Montagnes line which
would have been converted to Metro service, with steel wheel technology,
no doubt.  When the MUCTC took over operations on that line in '82, the
ticket receipts said "Ligne 3" at the top.  Bombardier recently got a
contract to provide new rolling stock for that line...finally!  The
upgrade is to modern commuter rail service, not "metro" type service.

As for the "A" line of Boston's MBTA Green Line trolley system, it splits off
from the "B", goes thru Allston/Brighton to the Watertown car house.  It
was shut down "temporarily" in 1969.  The line is still there and sees
occasional, non-revenue service.

For those interested in this type of stuff, there is a rec.railroad
newsgroup, as well as Railroad and Transit mailing lists.  Send me mail
for details...

Peter Laws|GEnie:P.LAWS1|"The '90s are gonna make the '60s|plaws@uafhp.uark.edu
n5uwy@ka5bml.ar.usa.noam| look like the '50s"  --D. Hopper|plaws@uafsysb.bitnet
From: jsw@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Jeremy Westerman)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
Subject: Re: canadian subway
Date: 11 Jan 93 11:38:43 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Edinburgh


For interest the Paris Metro also uses rubber wheels. In fact, before they put
engines in the trains, the coachs were pulled by horses!

Jeremy Westerman
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,can.politics
From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
Subject: Re: Property rights and the constitution
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 00:28:18 GMT

In article <93008.162248SPRAGGEJ@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> John G. Spragge <SPRAGGEJ@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> writes:
>What property "right" do you want the constitution to uphold? The
>constitution already prevents state goons breaking down our doors
>or searching us on the street without good evidence of a crime.
>What more security do you want?

A carefully worded right to property should be in the constitution,
because individuals should not have to rely on legislatures to
define and protect property, but individuals should be able to
advocate for property through the courts, just as they are able
for other rights such as equality rights or freedom of expression.

How it is worded is crucially important, since as I have argued,
property has to be put into the proper context in relation to liberty,
but since I am not a constitutional lawyer, I cannot exactly recite
appropriate constitutional language that strikes what I would consider
the correct context and balance.  The context of the right to property
should be as I have been discussing it.  The legislatures can make
mistakes about property, advocacy through the courts should be allowed
to attempt to point out the mistakes of legislatures.

However, I don't want the constitutional right to property so absolutist
that it prevents governments from acting at all, taxing at all, or
making things like zoning, or environmental legislation impossible.

Gerald
From: bj368@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike E. Romano)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
Subject: Inexp lodging in Toronto
Date: 10 Jan 1993 09:11:04 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu



I am planning to spend about six months in the Toronto
area doing an independent study project and would like
to be within commuting distance of the U of Toronto.
Besides the Globe and Mail newspaper are there any
other newspapers or listings of small rooms, studios,
or shared, for rent.
If there are such sources, addresses of other newspapers,
etc would be appreciated so that I may send for copies.
Email to above address is fine.  
mike romano.

-- 
Capt. Kirk: let's head for that planet, third from the sun, it
            looks promising.... |-)
From: clamen+@CS.CMU.EDU (Stewart Clamen)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
Subject: Re: canadian subway
Date: 11 Jan 93 20:13:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.C0pHID.K8.1
Reply-To: clamen+@CS.CMU.EDU
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon University
Originator: clamen@BYRON.SP.CS.CMU.EDU

In article <1993Jan10.235430.10290@philmtl.philips.ca> ray@philmtl.philips.ca (Ray Dunn) writes:

			[..]

   Although the system to my mind is superb (even though it has a
   pretty small coverage of the city), one of the disadvantages of the
   rubber tyres is that they are totally unsuited to surface use in
   Montreal's climate, and thus extension into the suburbs on the
   surface is exteremely unlikely.

I consider this a MAJOR advantage of the rubber tires.  On major snow
days, it is nice to know that you can rely on the Metro.  If lines
were partly above ground, commuters would have to suffer delays even
if they are convenient to the underground stations.

When I was young, I used to dream of someday living in an apartment
with a Metro connection.  I had this idea of wanting to be able to get
to work without needing a coat or umbrella.

Someone has already mentioned that the existing cars might be able to
handle metal tracks.  Even if they don't, I'm sure Bombardier would
love to develop "bi-gauge" cars.  How expensive are the purchase and
maintenance of the rubber-tired cars compared to the cost of digging
the tunnels anyhow?

   It only costs $1.08 to travel from anywhere, to anywhere on the
   island of Montreal, with as many transfers as required (but only
   one part of the journey can be by metro unfortunately, all others
   by bus).  On boarding a bus, a transfer is obtained which can be
   used for access within 90 minutes to any other connecting bus or
   the metro.  When entering the metro station another transfer is
   obtained which is good for another 90 minutes, to be used for
   busses after leaving the metro.

I had always thought that using transfers to make 'return' trips was
frowned upon.  And, as you've shown, you could not use the Metro twice
in your loop.

   I know of no other city that you can board a bus, do your business
   at the other end, and _return_ home on the same fare (other than by
   buying a return or two-way ticket of course), and who can imagine a
   50 kilometer journey in, say, London, for 60 pence?

Public transportation in Pittsburgh costs $1.25 (pretty steep) to ride
a bus, tram, or funicular elevator.  For 25 cents more you can buy a
transfer which was designed specifically for return trips.  (It has a
3 hour time limit.)

--
Stewart M. Clamen			Internet:    clamen@cs.cmu.edu
School of Computer Science		UUCP: 	     uunet!"clamen@cs.cmu.edu"
Carnegie Mellon University		Phone: 	     +1 412 268 2145
5000 Forbes Avenue			Fax:	     +1 412 681 5739
Pittsburgh, PA 15213-3891, USA
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
From: cmk@athena.mit.edu (Charles M Kozierok)
Subject: Re: Unique, eh? + A SPECIAL BONUS!!
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 03:53:22 GMT

In article <1993Jan9.020927.5639@philmtl.philips.ca> ray@philmtl.philips.ca (Ray Dunn) writes:
>This newsgroup is really quite unique.  I can think of no other that I read
>regularly where I could expect to see all 22 new articles on the same
>thread and by such a small number of people, as I saw today.

i've seen worse. check out one of the political groups sometime.

>Although this
>is an extreme example, soc.culture.canada always has a remarkably small
>number of subject lines for the volume of postings.  How boring.

as is your post. :^)

seriously, if it is boring, why not do something about it! post something
more interesting! i've certainly done my bit to... ahem... "liven
things up" here, although i'm sure many would rather i hadn't... :^)

****

so, putting my money where my mouth is, here's something different:

for all of you Dave Barry fans out there, check out his latest
column in the sunday paper. (any who haven't heard of him --
check it out anyway; he's *very* funny).

anyway, he did it on "our neighbors (neighbours?) to the north". the
column is supposed to be about Canada, but as is Barry's wont, he
ends up ranting and raving about all sorts of nonsense. kind of amusing,
though not his best work. anyway, i won't spoil it for all of you --
check it out.

--
charles

p.s. i just got my NDP membership card in the mail. i'm so excited!
     that objectivist crap was *really* getting tiresome... :^)
From: ray@philmtl.philips.ca (Ray Dunn)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
Subject: Unique, eh?
Date: 9 Jan 93 02:09:27 GMT
Organization: Not Philips.

This newsgroup is really quite unique.  I can think of no other that I read
regularly where I could expect to see all 22 new articles on the same
thread and by such a small number of people, as I saw today.  Although this
is an extreme example, soc.culture.canada always has a remarkably small
number of subject lines for the volume of postings.  How boring.
-- 
Ray Dunn at home        |  Beaconsfield, Quebec  |  Phone: (514) 630 3749
ray@philmtl.philips.ca  |  ray@cam.org           |  uunet!sobeco!philmtl!ray
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,can.politics