HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tchrist@convex.COM (Tom Christiansen)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: English English versus *American* English
Date: 31 Jul 92 01:07:15 GMT
Reply-To: tchrist@convex.COM (Tom Christiansen)
Organization: CONVEX Realtime Development, Colorado Springs, CO
Originator: tchrist@convex.convex.com
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

From the keyboard of slagle@lmsc.lockheed.com:
:In article <1992Jul30.030414.21108@news.eng.convex.com>, Tom Christiansen <tchrist@convex.COM> writes:
:
:> From the keyboard of slagle@lmsc.lockheed.com:
:
:> :In article <84773@netnews.upenn.edu>, crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Lauren L. Crawford) writes:
:
:> :> O.K.  Let's all speak French now.
:
:> :Shall we see if we can find interesting ways to 
:> :mutilate that one, too?  Let's start by changing
:> :all the "s" letters in "vous" to "z".
:
:> Ay vooz avay kelka rezone poor nepah fair sa?

Vraymaw, say pah nesasair, mow nahmee.

--tom
-- 
    Tom Christiansen      tchrist@convex.com      convex!tchrist

"The number of UNIX installations has grown to 10, with more expected."
    - _The UNIX Programmer's Manual_, Second Edition, June, 1972.
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: evan@hpl.hp.com (Evan Kirshenbaum)
Subject: Re: For instance/for example
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 16:55:54 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard

In article <1992Jul28.212544.9065@uts.uni-c.dk> clauct@uts.uni-c.dk (Claus Tondering) writes:
>I am not a native speaker of English. I have been trying with the
>help of various dictionaries to find out what the difference between
>"for instance" and "for example" is, all to no avail. The Oxford
>Advanced Learner's Dictionary of Current English explains "for instance"
>as "by way of example", so that does not make me any wiser. Nor
>do other dictionaries help me.
>
>Is there any difference?

None that I can think of.  I think I'm more likeley to use "for
instance", but both are productive for me.  "For example" sounds a
*little* better than "for instance" when used after the exemplar
("There are many people -- John, for example -- who ..."), but both
are realy ok either before or after.

In writing, they are equivalent to "e.g."  (which only occurs before
the exemplar).

Evan Kirshenbaum
    HP Laboratories
    3500 Deer Creek Road, Building 26U
    Palo Alto, CA  94304

    kirshenbaum@hplabs.hp.com
    (415)857-7572
From: dand@buscard.fidonet.org (Dan Davidson)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Words that peeve
Date: 29 Jul 92 04:29:15 GMT
X-Maildoor: WaflineMail 1.00r


  => In a message to All on 07-26-92  16:48 Breadner Kenneth Cecil J said:

 BKCJ> --thusly (already mentioned)
 BKCJ> --hereinbefore (who coined this one?!)
 BKCJ> --likewise, "thereinafter"

 BKCJ> Why, oh why, can't lawyers use language the rest of us can wade
 BKCJ> through wihout the use of hip waders?

You should know what you're in for when you see on the lawyers' door,
"John Smith and Mary Jones, PC, Attorneys at Law".

Can they be attorneys at anything else?

                                                   -- Dan --

                      +------------------------------+
                      |   dand@buscard.fidonet.org   |
                      +------------------------------+
                      |       Dan Davidson           |
                      +------------------------------+




... THINK! or thwim.
--- Blue Wave/QWK v2.10
From: SSR48327@VAX1.UTULSA.EDU (Syed Shibli)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: I'm so gay
Date: 22 Jul 92 19:01:50 GMT
X-Received: by usenet.pa.dec.com; id AA23174; Wed, 22 Jul 92 12:01:55 -0700
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X-Vmsmail-To: smtp%"alt.usage.english.usenet@decwrl.dec.com"



  Is the original meaning of "gay" lost forever? Would it be futile
  to wrestle it back from oblivion? 

-- 
                        Syed Shibli
            I'm a gay, gay child in a gay, gay world.
                      +1 918 631 3257
From: tysoj@solb1.essex.ac.uk (Tyson J R)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: anymore unique
Date: 25 Jul 92 18:34:55 GMT
Reply-To: tysoj@essex.ac.uk (Tyson J R)
Organization: University of Essex, Colchester, UK


In article <gate.gc0BoB1w164w@buscard.fidonet.org> dand@buscard.fidonet.org (Dan Davidson) writes:
>
>
>Any language is, almost by definition, a logic system.  I hope we can
>all accept the legitimacy of "more logical" and "less logical.
>
>                                 

Well...what is the definition?  Halliday claims that language is a
social semiotic, Chomsky claims it a structure in a mental organ
called the mind.  Richard Montague did believe, and many people
agree with him, that there are few important differences between
formal languages and natural languages and that the kind of
semantics logicians do is adequate for natural language.  But...
this is no *obviously* true and some people disagree.  Even if it is
true that `language is ... a logic system', what property of this
system has anything to do with the acceptability of phrases like
`more unique'?
From: michaeln@cs.uq.oz.au (Bunweasel)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: french
Date: 25 Jul 92 12:06:31 GMT
Reply-To: michaeln@cs.uq.oz.au
Organization: Department of Computer Science, The University of Queensland

>One account I've read, though, suggests the Dutch fare worst
>in terms of the English vocabulary, with Dutch courage and
>Dutch treat, Dutch headache (hangover), Dutch widow (prostitute),
>and quite a few others.

There's always Dutch oven (farting while in bed with someone).

I've had the concept of a "Dutch wife" explained to me, but I've
never actually seen one. It's an item of bedding once employed
by colonists and traders in the tropics.

Neither appear in my SOED - the Macquarie is at home.

-Michael N.
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: lange@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com (Alex Lange)
Subject: Re: The End of a Thread
Organization: Moving Finger Writes, Inc.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 19:46:02 GMT

drieux@wetware.com (drieux, just drieux) writes:

 [ a Slough of Drivel ]

Whatever language this person writes, it's certainly not English;
Mandar won't mistake it for proof of his arguments American spelling.

This is not X Windows; it's a faulty spacebar.

: But I Can See the HideousHienousHandOfHeteroSexualityBehindItAll.

This should be             Heinous

Alex Lange
From: jhawk@panix.com (John Hawkinson)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: What to use instead of "pun intended"?
Date: 30 Jul 92 03:19:27 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC

Hmm. I can't seem to think of a good example, but I just read an
article where the author used a pun in the sentence, and then used the
construction "pun intended" in parentheses afterwards, like so:

That was a totally cool trip to Antartica, dude! (pun intended)
[so the example stinks :-(]

Anyway, I've noticed that occassionally I too will do this; subsequent
reflection, however, indicates that such usage is a tad
awkward/undesirable/something-to-avoid. Therefore, anybody have
anything better they'd care to suggest?

--
John Hawkinson
jhawk@panix.com
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: ratter@b8.ingr.com (Ray Ratte)
Subject: Re: french
Summary: City slang
Organization: Intergraph
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 14:44:37 GMT

In article <Brspxq.KDM@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>, baron@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Dennis Baron) writes:
> The English language has inherited a number of words and
> expressions that reflect British distrust/dislike of the
> French.  But the French are always happy to return the
> favor.  Thus the French version of the French letter is
> the British overcoat (redingote anglaise, ironic as
> well since redingote is a borrowing, `riding coat').
> 
> One account I've read, though, suggests the Dutch fare worst
> in terms of the English vocabulary, with Dutch courage and
> Dutch treat, Dutch headache (hangover), Dutch widow (prostitute),
> and quite a few others.
> 
> Chinese fire drill reflects a negative stereotype, but I've
> heard suggestions that Chinese three-point landing (a plane crash) and
> Chinese handball (where the ball must be bounced off the ground
> before it hits the wall) are actually nothing more than 
> references to the story that if you dig straight down (from the
> US) you'll get to China.
> 
> Closer to home (again, US), states and cities come in for the
> same treatment.  Arkansas chicken = salt pork; Boston screwdriver
> = a hammer; Texas leaguer (aka Jap liner, Sheeny Mike, stinker) is
> a cheap base hit.  An Arkansas fire extinguisher is a chamber pot,
> and a California room an outhouse.  A California prayer book is
> a deck of cards.
> 
> A New York minute seems to be a very brief time (< 60 secs.); is
> it negative?  I heard it during convention coverage, but since I
> am from New York I am not familiar with the term.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Dennis Baron                                         debaron@uiuc.edu 
> University of Illinois at Urbana                     217-333-2392

Have you not heard the country-western song that has these lines in it;

I'd make love to you in a New York minute

And take my Texas time doing it.

??
 _ __                _ __
' )  )              ' )  )     _/_ _/_
 /--' __.  __  ,     /--' __.  /   /  _
/  \_(_/|_/ (_/_    /  \_(_/|_<___<__</_
             /
            '
Ray Ratte @ Intergraph Huntsville
ray@rayr.b25.ingr.com.
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: bf455@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Bonita Kale)
Subject: Re: french
Reply-To: bf455@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Bonita Kale)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 10:59:24 GMT


In a previous article, baron@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Dennis Baron) says:

>The English language has inherited a number of words and
>expressions that reflect British distrust/dislike of the
>French.  But the French are always happy to return the
>favor.  Thus the French version of the French letter is
>the British overcoat (redingote anglaise, ironic as
>well since redingote is a borrowing, `riding coat').
>
>One account I've read, though, suggests the Dutch fare worst
>in terms of the English vocabulary, with Dutch courage and
>Dutch treat, Dutch headache (hangover), Dutch widow (prostitute),
>and quite a few others.
>
>Chinese fire drill reflects a negative stereotype, but I've
>heard suggestions that Chinese three-point landing (a plane crash) and
>Chinese handball (where the ball must be bounced off the ground
>before it hits the wall) are actually nothing more than 
>references to the story that if you dig straight down (from the
>US) you'll get to China.
>
>Closer to home (again, US), states and cities come in for the
>same treatment.  Arkansas chicken = salt pork; Boston screwdriver
>= a hammer; Texas leaguer (aka Jap liner, Sheeny Mike, stinker) is
>a cheap base hit.  An Arkansas fire extinguisher is a chamber pot,
>and a California room an outhouse.  A California prayer book is
>a deck of cards.

Welsh rabbit is cheese sauce on toast; a Dutch uncle is "a severely
censorious person" (according to my slang dictionary; but my husband's
family used it to mean one of those pseudo-uncles who's really a friend,
not a relative).  "Indian giver" used (in the bad unenlightened days of my
childhood) to mean a person who takes back what s/he gave.  And Indian
summer, of course, is still with us--what the British call St.  Martin's
summer, I think--that sudden snap back to warm weather after fall seems to
be in full fling. 


Bonita Kale


Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: bayla@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Bayla Singer)
Subject: Re: "This" weekend vs. "Next" weekend
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois, USA
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 11:40:12 GMT

Losing the distinction between "this" weekend (the one immediately
following the date of the speech) and "next" weekend (the weekend *after*
next) is confusing -- I too come from the Noetheast US, and am used to the
distinction.  In other parts of the US, roadsigns have confused/misdirected
me, since I'm never sure whether "Route X next right turn" means the exit
I'm approaching, or the one following it.  

Sigh.

--bayla
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: slagle@lmsc.lockheed.com (Mark Slagle)
Subject: Re: "French" spacing (was: How many spaces after a period?)
Reply-To: slagle@lmsc.lockheed.com
In-reply-to: james@cs.anu.edu.au's message of Wed, 22 Jul 1992 01:34:51 GMT
Organization: Lockheed Missiles and Space Co., Sunnyvale, Ca.
	<SLAGLE.92Jul13125749@sgi417.msd.lmsc.lockheed.com>
	<JHEIKKIL.92Jul14133927@utrio.helsinki.fi>
	<1992Jul20.040503.3353@news.columbia.edu>
	<james.711768891@cs.anu.edu.au>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 02:04:56 GMT

In article <james.711768891@cs.anu.edu.au>, james@cs.anu.edu.au (James Popple) writes:

> french cricket:

> A form of cricket in which the batsman holds the bat in front
> of her/his legs, which are used as stumps.

Suggestive?

> I suspect that we Australians inherited these terms (or at least this
> use of the word "french") from the British.  Although it is possible
> that french knitting originated in France, I seriously doubt that
> either french cricket or the french cut is French.  Another example
> might be "french leave": is it supposed to be the French way of taking
> leave, or the abnormal way?  (I guess that "french kiss" and "french
> letter" fall into a different category.)

Don't forget the ever-popular French postcards!

--
----
Mark E. Slagle                                 PO Box 61059
slagle@lmsc.lockheed.com                       Sunnyvale, CA   94088
408-756-0895                                   USA
From: mmmirash@midway.ecn.uoknor.edu (Mandar Mukund Mirashi)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: English English versus *American* English
Date: 30 Jul 92 17:13:03 GMT
Organization: Engineering Computer Network, University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK, USA

In article <1992Jul30.060536.14722@midway.uchicago.edu> goer@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>You apparently have selective hearing.  Several posters have pointed
>out that you lack facility with English articles, and with other subtle-
>ties of the language.  This may, in fact, be due to your background.
>I find that Indian people virtually always claim that they are speaking
>British English, and yet I have not met a single one that actually
>sounded like a Brit.  Why this preoccupation with something that has
>no practical use, and which is clearly not being attained?
>

      You seem to have misunderstood me. I have never repeat NEVER 
claimed that I speak the English English....but wish to do so, some
day! My only assertion is that the English  used by Englishmen is
the standard for the language, and other variants of the language
should be judged according to it.

>My theory is that it's a large-scale identification-with-the-captor
>complex that released hostages and prisoners often feel for quite some
>time after their experience ends.
>
>-- 
>
>   -Richard L. Goerwitz              goer%midway@uchicago.bitnet
>   goer@midway.uchicago.edu          rutgers!oddjob!ellis!goer

Huh??   What are you? A psychologist?    :)
From: bkannan@ha06.eng.ua.edu (Balaji Kannan)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Sound-Bite?
Date: 29 Jul 1992 16:55:24 -0500
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu



  Could someone explain what a sound-bite is?
  What is its origin?

  Who is a policy-wonk?
  Does ad-libbing mean just extempore speech or more than that?

  How did these originate?

  Thanx!

  Balaji Kannan
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: pjt@newton.cs.jhu.edu (Paul Tanenbaum)
Subject: Re: Words that peeve me
Organization: Johns Hopkins Computer Science Department, Baltimore, MD
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 16:42:34 GMT

     In my capacity as civilian employee of the United States Army, I have
often received the task of preparing "post-test predictions."
     +++paul

Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: cochran@spam.rtp.dg.com (A. Jing Hippy)
Subject: Caffeine/Nicotine (was: ex-presidents' titles)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 17:27:51 GMT
Organization: A Suffusion of Yellow

In article <gate.iRDBoB1w164w@buscard.fidonet.org>, dand@buscard.fidonet.org (Dan Davidson) writes:
|> 
|> This comment is not about English, but is to correct a misaprehension:
|> 
|>   Caffein is a stimulant.  Nicotine is a depressant.
|> 
|> All part of the course -- no extra charge...

Good thing, because it's broken.  Both caffeine and nicotine are stimulants.
Anyone who has taken a "stop smoking" clinic has probably been told that
the popular misconception "a cigarette is relaxing and calms my nerves" is
caused by the alleviation of withdrawal symptoms, not by any barbituric
effect of the nicotine.  It constricts the blood vessels, increases the 
heart rate, and depresses appetite, just like any other stimulant does.

+--------------------------------------------------+
|Dave Cochran, Data General Corporation, RTP, NC   |
|cochran@dg-rtp.dg.com                             |
+--------------------------------------------------+
|If I owned Texas and Hell, I would rent out Texas |
|and live in Hell. - Philip Henry Sheridan         |
+--------------------------------------------------+
From: michaeln@cs.uq.oz.au (Bunweasel)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: ex-presidents' titles
Date: 26 Jul 92 13:59:46 GMT
Reply-To: michaeln@cs.uq.oz.au
Organization: Department of Computer Science, The University of Queensland

In article 7LwFoB1w164w@buscard.fidonet.org, dand@buscard.fidonet.org (Dan Davidson) writes:
>
> -=> Quoting Mark Slagle to All <=-
>
> > The time I was hurt at, doesn't matter to the insurance company.
>
> MS> The time at which I was hurt doesn't matter...
>
>I'd go for that one, only I druther not have to use "which".
>
>                                                   -- Dan --

It doesn't matter to the insurance company when I was hurt.
To the insurance company, it doesn't matter what time I was hurt.
I don't think the insurance company really gives a stuff.

-m.                          




Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener)
Subject: Re: "This" weekend vs. "Next" weekend
Reply-To: gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 15:38:42 GMT

In article <SLAGLE.92Jul27152542@sgi417.msd.lmsc.lockheed.com> slagle@lmsc.lockheed.com writes:
>if
>you say "next weekend" to me on Monday-Friday, it means the
>one immediately following this M-F work week. 

Really?  Even if someone asks you on Friday, "What are you doing next weekend?"


--
Gabe Wiener - Columbia Univ.     "This 'telephone' has too many shortcomings 
gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu       to be seriously considered as a means of 
N2GPZ in ham radio circles        communication. The device is inherently of
72355,1226 on CI$                 no value to us." -Western Union memo, 1877
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: slagle@lmsc.lockheed.com (Mark Slagle)
Subject: Re: English English versus *American* English
Reply-To: slagle@lmsc.lockheed.com
In-reply-to: Tom Christiansen's message of Thu, 30 Jul 1992 03:04:14 GMT
Organization: You wouldn't ask this if you'd seen my desk.
	<SLAGLE.92Jul29185948@sgi417.msd.lmsc.lockheed.com>
	<1992Jul30.030414.21108@news.eng.convex.com>
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 23:05:33 GMT

In article <1992Jul30.030414.21108@news.eng.convex.com>, Tom Christiansen <tchrist@convex.COM> writes:

> From the keyboard of slagle@lmsc.lockheed.com:

> :In article <84773@netnews.upenn.edu>, crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Lauren L. Crawford) writes:

> :> O.K.  Let's all speak French now.

> :Shall we see if we can find interesting ways to 
> :mutilate that one, too?  Let's start by changing
> :all the "s" letters in "vous" to "z".

> Ay vooz avay kelka rezone poor nepah fair sa?

Zhay bayswah doon rayzone?
--
----
Mark E. Slagle                                 PO Box 61059
slagle@lmsc.lockheed.com                       Sunnyvale, CA   94088
408-756-0895                                   USA
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: prener@watson.ibm.com (Dan Prener)
Subject: Re: Use of "dereference"
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 01:24:17 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center, Hawthorne, New York

In article <11454725.19.712045108@eng2.eng.monash.edu.au> 11454725@eng2.eng.monash.edu.au (JOLAN EVANS) writes:

>Use of "derefence"

>	In one of my first year computer science subjects my lecturer uses 
>the word dereference. From the context in which he uses it, to my best 
>knowledge, it means "given a reference to a variable x, obtain its value". I 
>can not find it in The Macquarie Dictionary ( a relatively large Australian 
>English language dictionary), Revised Edition or the Hamlyn Dictionary of 
>Computing. The Macquarie Dictionary, Revised Edition is a little dated do I 
>was wondering if it's in any larger and/or more up to date dictionary/
>dictionary of computing. My immeditate thoughts as to the etymology if it is 
>a recently invented word is the contraction of "decode" and "reference". Any 
>thoughts?

>	Although it is relatively trivial I like to know the precise 
>meaning of the jargon used in computer science. It certainly helps in 
>understanding the sometime quite abstract concepts that abound in it.

Your understanding of the meaning is essentially correct.  I would only
reword it slightly, changing "given a reference to a variable x" to
"given a pointer to a variable x" or "given the address of a variable x",
depending on the context.

I think the word has been in common technical use for several decades.
The etymology is "de-" in the sense of "un-".  Dereferencing is the
inverse of taking the address: dereferencing the address of x gives
the value of x.
--
                                   Dan Prener (prener@watson.ibm.com)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: peter.churchill@rose.com (peter churchill)
Subject: Shrew/Taming of...
Organization: Rose Media Inc, Toronto, Ontario.
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 14:36:30 GMT
X-Gated-By: Usenet <==> RoseMail Gateway (v1.70)


Date Entered: 07-24-92 00:02

joannee@sco.COM (Joanne Eglash) asked:

|What is the origin of the word "shrew," as in "The Taming of..."?
|I have checked some references, and they seem to vary. 

It appears to go right back to the AS _screawa_ which is the shrew 
mouse [family Soricidae] but there is a fair gap from AS times to 
about the 16th c.  The shrew-mouse was reputed to have dangerous 
powers. According to my Weekley etymological dict. a translation of the 
L. _mures nocentissimi_ -- a harmful rat or mouse -- in the XIII c. 
was given in ME as _wel schrewyd mys_. Hence, says Weekley, it has 
been applied to a spiteful person, male or female, e.g. Henry le 
Shrewe lived in Sussex in 1293. Dr. Johnson refined it to a "peevish, 
malignant, clamorous, spiteful, vexatious, turbulent woman."

And going from Shrew to shrewd, still in Shakespeare, his _shrewd 
turn_ in Henry VIII meant something malicious or malignant.  Actually 
not a bad definition when you think of all those shrewd people who ran 
S&Ls and the like.

It was shrewd of you to ask such a question at this time of night -- 
although now that I think of it, it is still mid-evening where you 
are.

Regards: *PC* <peter.churchill@rose.com>  Toronto, Canada. 
 
---
   RR 1.60 P001013: Blame San Andreas - its all his fault.
   RoseMail 1.70: RoseNet<=>Usenet Gateway : Rose Media 416-733-2285
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english