From: abkevich@husc3.harvard.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: Jews and Germans
Date: 27 Jan 93 15:04:56 EST
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

In article <1993Jan26.172225.12338@leland.Stanford.EDU>, bavaria@leland.Stanford.EDU (Andreas Meier) writes:
> In article <1993Jan25.044134.19772@husc3.harvard.edu> abkevich@husc3.harvard.edu writes:
>>Roger Lustig>> Should one call their heir tainted and insist that these
>>               generations owe the world something each by each? 
>>
>>No. But again I am not forgetting that they were *influenced* by their parents
>>and grandparents. 
>>
> You are right that we (the post war Germans) are influenced by our parents and
> to a lesser extent by our grandparents. But especially for Germans of my 
> generation (I was born in 1963) this might even be an advantage as far as 
> education by our parents is concerned. My dad was born in 1934, his mother
> was a very faithful catholic woman who for example forbid him to join the HJ.

Your grandmother was *VERY* brave woman. I suspect that your family was not
average. My parents (I was born in the USSR in 1965) were horrified when they
found out that I didn't agree to join Pioneers (Comunist organization for 
children 9-14 years old) and forced me to join (I knew that they would not like
it and lied smth as long as I could).
    
> After the war he was very thrilled with the given chance to build a new, more
> democratic Germany. And many ideas that found their way into the constitution
> of the Federal Republic of Germany make this socalled "Grundgesetz" one of 
> the most democratic and liberal constitutions ever written.

Your father was brought up in unusual family. But for the fact that he and other
liberal Germans were able to build democratic Germany you should thank A/E/F 
troops. In East Germany they were not able. In the USSR after Stalin's death
and 10,000,000 prisoners of labor camps returned home they were not able. But
democratic constitution is not enough. Germany had pretty liberal constitution
in 1932.

> It was a part of my and my brothers education that the Third Reich as part of 
> German history should always influence our behaviour and make us very 
> sensitive in our relationship to other people, especially those who suffered 
> the most under German oppression and cruelty.

Give me a break. Read all postings "Jews and Germans". How many wrote that they
should be very sensitive in their relationship to people who suffered under
German oppression and cruelty? They wrote 
1)You are racist if you are talking about "German cruelty".
2)WW2 was just one war among others and wars are always cruel.
3)They were born after WW2 so they are interested in German oppression no more 
they are interested in US Marine raping.
4)If I don't agree I am racist and Nazi myself.
Again, as far as I could see, your position is not that popular.
 
> I do not feel personally guilty for my countries history, 

Sure, nobody might be guilty for smth what was done before he was born.

> but I feel a strong responsibility to prevent it from happening again. And I 
> hope that all reasonable young Germans think the same way. The huge 
> demonstrations in German cities last autumn against xenophobia and racism 
> where mainly young Germans participated seem to proof that.

Look, I don't think that this firebombing could prove smth. You need only few 
idiots to do them. On the other hand I am not that impressed by these
demonstrations either. 1)As you surely understand the most part of young 
Germans didn't take part in these demonstrations. I don't know their oppinion.
In democratic country you could always organize demonstrations. 2) Young people
always feel more liberal than their parents. What would happen with them later?
Do you want example? Thousands of young Americans participated in
demonstrations in the late 60-th. They voted for Republicans later. 
3) I don't like goverment position at all. But I think that they are seeking
votes and much more realistic then you. Again, don't you think that your
position is far from average?
 
> This is my first posting to this newsgroup, so feel free to criticize me
> wherever you do not agree. 

Well, I think I used your suggestion.

> I want to thank all participants in the Jews and Germans and related threads
> who try to use arguments instead of insults to make their points.

Good point. But now you are definitly in minority. 

> Andreas

                                Regards

                             Victor Abkevich