HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: yung@r-node.gts.org (Amos Yung)
Subject: Re: Lacarno-expected to succeed-
Organization: R-Node Public Access UNIX System (416-636-2026) - 24 hrs
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1992 17:15:45 GMT

In article <1992Apr6.220411.4584@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> hucke@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Matt Hucke) writes:
>In article <1992Apr5.213852.11591@acsu.buffalo.edu> v128nkej@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Boggles the MIND) writes:
>>3.  The boy that died (whats his name) is dead and it doesn't matter too much
>>     that his name is mucked for the good of the team.
>
>I thought so too, until I watched his father during the testimony... although
>he didn't say much, that man can act.
>
>

That's crazy. Thats the same as the hit and run attitude! (he is dead, what
good will it do if I go to jail)
 


>-- 
>        Real Programmers Don't Eat Quiche.
>                      hucke@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu
>                      Gene Roddenberry 1921-1991


-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Amos Yung          | Macintosh Jr.: The power to crush the other kid.
yung@r-node.gts.org| 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: jeh@cmkrnl.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Troi's Mom-To Know Her Is To Hate Her
Date: 17 Apr 92 01:49:00 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Kernel Mode Consulting, San Diego CA

In article <1992Apr15.184602.6385@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, kalel@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (peter.t.mcdermott) writes:
> I for years have held a great dislike for Mrs. Roddenberry's "acting"
> abilities. [...] At BEST, her acting abilities were minimal. Her first role
> on the old show's pilot as the emotionless #1 was probably her best shot
> at no one recognizing she _can't_ act! 

She had a minor role in _Westworld_, as the owner of the bro... er, fancy
saloon. :-)  I don't remember if she was one of the robots or not (probably,
since she wasn't a guest -- I think all the non-guests were robots), but if she
was, I thought you would probably find this to be apropos! 

	--- Jamie Hanrahan, Kernel Mode Consulting, San Diego CA
Internet:  jeh@cmkrnl.com, hanrahan@eisner.decus.org, or jeh@crash.cts.com
Uucp:  ...{crash,eisner,uunet}!cmkrnl!jeh
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: rakast@bluemoon.rn.com (Matthew Vogley)
Subject: Re: What happens to BOSEMAN now in TNG-Time Line?
Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024])
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 92 19:21:16 EDT

> Now that the BOSEMAN is in the TNG time-line shouldn't this
> change "time," effect deep changes in plots, (la Tasha Yar),
> they are "pre-borg."
> 
> Given the title cause and effect what will the long term
> effect of all this.
> 
> Does anyone think this will be forgotten or will it be
> leading up to some season cliff hanger??

No... The Boseman was caught in a time loop. It basically vanished from 
history, and somehow came out of the loop just in time to plow into the 
enterprise, thus causing them to loop..

This is the only logical analysis that I can put together...

Rakast Geldorian

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::/\
 \ \ \  / / /  Rakast Geldorian         Ohio State University.. /  \
  \ \ \/ / /  rakast@bluemoon.rn.com                           / /\ \
   \ \  / /                                                   / /  \ \
    \ \/ /  "Tickle us, do we not laugh, Prick us, do we     / / /\ \ \
     \  /  "not bleed, Wrong us, shall we not revenge...."  / / /  \ \ \
      \/:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
From: kbanerje@grad01.math.ncsu.edu (Kaushik Banerjee)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re:  First Duty
Date: 6 Apr 92 19:15:31 GMT
Organization: NCSU Mathematics Dept.

A few weeks ago on Good Morning America, they did a broadcast from the set of TNG. They showed a clip form the series which I did not, at the time recognize.
After viewing "First Duty', I realized that the clip was from this episode.
Now my question: In the clip they showed on Good Morn. America, there was a
Female Klingon in a Starfleet uniform. On "First Duty", this same clip did not appear, but in the background of one of the scenes in the hearing room, I believeI saw this same female Klingon in a Starfleet uniform. Did anyone else notice this?
From: sll28@cc.usu.edu (LORNA_PAYNE)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Picard is old! (Minor First Duty spoiler)
Date: 6 Apr 92 16:10:12 MDT
Organization: Utah State University

In article <1992Apr5.203857.22756@panix.com>, pcg@panix.com (Paul Gallagher) writes:
> Picard says he's class of '27.  This makes the birthdate he's given in
> "Conundrum" likely: 13 July 2305.  Assuming the 5th season is 2369, 
> Picard's 64 (and Boothby's 106!)  

This conflicts with the 1st season Writer's Guide which puts Picard's age at
55.  Can anybody say retcon?
-- 

       ---------------------------------------------------------
               Lorna Payne
               Certified Math Geek and Grammarian
       ---------------------------------------------------------
         You are not Morg.  You are not Eymorg.  What are you?
       ---------------------------------------------------------
From: jcurrie@ccu.umanitoba.ca (James Gordon Currie)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: StarFleet and the Xenophobia Thing
Date: 7 Apr 92 01:20:15 GMT
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada

****Bzzt****

Sorry, "Mad" person...
          But the Klingons are *not* UFP members. They are *allied* to the
UFP... There is a difference. Mainly, if/when they *do* join the UFP, they
will be required to disband their fleet, in favour of the ships of Star Fleet
(which is a construction of the UFP council about 1 century or so after the
formation of the UFP), as Star Fleet is/was designed to replace the navies of
the individual member-states of the UFP.

Ciao
J G Currie
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: tlynch@cco.caltech.edu (Timothy W. Lynch)
Subject: Re: Lacarno = Kirk (Spoilers "1st Duty)
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 22:13:08 GMT

runyan@cup.hp.com (Mark Runyan) writes:
>kyle@uunet.uu.net (Kyle Jones) writes:

>>>>...  The benefits of keeping silent should have been weighed
>>>>against the the benefits of coming forward with the truth.

>>>Are you sure that they weren't?

>>Pretty sure.  Wesley spilled his guts expecting to be expelled...
>>He'd have cleared his own guilty conscience at the expense of three 
>>others.  

>Ah, but would he have cleared his guilty conscience by leaving three
>possible hazards in Starfleet (remembering that their not upholding
>"the first duty" makes them less than ideal command material)?

Nice point.  I've been discussing this in email with a friend, and she's
given me permission to quote the following:

On the "Josh is dead anyway, why not let him take the blame?" argument:

>so i suppose that dead people should be blamed for _my_ shortcomings as
>well as their own.  how utterly convenient.

And in general, to those who believe Locarno was being realistic and
oh-so-practical with his cover-up:

>you know, starfleet is really very foolish.  why be so prodigal with
>their cadets and toss out someone like locarno who has _such_ potential
>to be a good officer?  i mean, the small matter of attempting to shirk
>responsibility for his actions and pressuring others into doing the
>same really isn't that important, now is it?   ;-)

>>... I think Starfleet is a bunch of hypocrites, making examples
>>of those who break the rules and fail, and lauding those who
>>break the rules and succeed.  

Speaking of quotes, I think a short passage from _Shogun_ might be in order
here.

Blackthorne is explaining the fact that the Dutch have rebelled from
Spain and are at war.  Toranaga, one of the leaders, is shocked.

"There can be NO excuse for rebellion against one's liege lord!"
"Unless you win."

Rules can't be absolute.  It all depends on your purpose and on your
success.

>>I think Locarno showed good sense
>>not to kowtow to them as the ultimate arbiter of justice.

>One point of interest is that Locarno was simply expelled.  No mention
>of a civil suite or criminal negligence trail or any other `jailable'
>offense.  Nor was there mention of mental rehabilitation time.  Starfleet
>did not judge Locarno to be an unfit human, dangerous, criminal, or
>evil.  Starfleet merely determined that Locarno was not Starfleet material.
>In other words, I don't believe Starfleet set themselves up as the
>ultimate arbiter of justice.

Good point.  I'd missed that.

Tim Lynch
From: jedenney@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (Jason E Denney)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Question about 'The First Duty' (no spoilers)
Date: 8 Apr 92 05:59:53 GMT
Organization: Engineering Computer Network, University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK


I was wondering if one of the female members of Nova Squadron was Wes's
girlfriend from 'The Game'?  I don't have them on tape, but she looked
very familiar.


-- Jason E Dennney ( jedenney@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu )
    ..-----------------------------------------------------------------.
   //\\  ** The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy,  by Douglas Adams **  \
O===x || ``In the beginning the universe was created...  this made a lot |=O
   \\//   of people angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.'' /
    ``-----------------------------------------------------------------'
      |    Q: How do you turn a cat into a dog?                        \
       \   A: Pour gasoline on it, light it, and it goes ``woof!''      |
       ..----------------------------------------------------------------.
      //\\  Walker Tower, Box 1036W      |          32 Meadow Hill Drive  \
   O===x || Norman, OK  73026            |       Bristow, OK  74010-3322   |=O
      \\//  (405) 325-4854        school | home           (918) 367-3430  /   
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Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: kyle@uunet.uu.net (Kyle Jones)
Subject: Re: Lacarno-expected to succeed-
Organization: UUNET Communications Services
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 01:19:37 GMT

 > > > 3.  The boy that died (whats his name) is dead and it doesn't matter too much
 > > >     that his name is mucked for the good of the team.
 > 
 > That's crazy. Thats the same as the hit and run attitude! (he is dead, what
 > good will it do if I go to jail)

Just because someone doesn't want to go to jail, that doesn't
mean they don't feel any guilt.

Furthermore, there's nothing wrong with guilty people wanting to
stay out of jail.  There's nothing wrong with us wanting them to
be in jail either.  But not wanting to go to jail doesn't make
the crime any worse.

Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: pealbers@descartes.waterloo.edu (Paul E. Albers)
Subject: Re: Why did the Glass Break! Cause and Effect
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 16:23:57 GMT

In article <k987iB1w164w@berry.Cary.NC.US> pat@berry.Cary.NC.US (Pat Berry) writes:
>vendwrt@iddsupp5.austin.ibm.com (Vendor Writer Guest Login) writes:
>
>> O.K. O.K> Alright, enough! Yes heavy equipment IS moved around. But, did
>> you ever notice something called an anti-grav unit on board?
>
>On board the NCC-1701-D?  No, I can't say that I ever did.  How about
>you?  Can you name one episode of ST:TNG in which an anti-grav unit is
>used, or even mentioned?
>
>
>Pat Berry                    pat@berry.Cary.NC.US

'Hollow Pursuits' is one such episode.

Paul
From: v075q5fr@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Scott J Gorcey)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Academy and Boothby   WAS: Re: A few comments THE FIRST DUTY brought up
Keywords: Calculus Academy FIRST DUTY
Date: 7 Apr 92 08:39:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Apr7.035123.4016@u.washington.edu>, iho@cac.washington.edu writes...
>hucke@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Matt Hucke) writes:
> 
>> I think there are several academies, one on earth, another on vulcan, etc.
>> This would explain why most of the cadets were human, and why the 
>> gardener personally knew all of them (which would be impossible if that 
>> one academy supplied all the officers for the entire fleet.)
> 
>The gardener didn't know all of them.  Piccard was a special case.  When
>Wesley left for the Academy, Piccard told him to look up the gardener,
>saying he's the wisest man there, or something to that effect.  I got
>the impression that it wasn't standard practice for cadets to befriend
>the gardener.
> 

     I got the very definite impression that, if all the cadets didn't
     know Boothby right out, Boothby DEFINITELY looked after all the cadets.

     (This just occured to me: Picard mentions to Wesley in "The Game"
      a favorite studying spot of his, under a tree on the Academy
      campus -- this is the spot where Picard finds Boothby shooing
      some cadet away in "First Duty."  Just something interesting
      that I missed on first viewing... (Didn't miss that the cadet
      in question was sitting in topsoil, but no one said he was a
      particularly SMART cadet...))

     Lastly, I would very definitely be of the opinion that there is
     only one Starfleet Academy.  Perhaps there are campuses on other
     worlds, or in other cities on Earth (perhaps the Minsk Pareces 
     Squares team Picard mentioned was another campus of the Academy),
     but there can only be one Academy -- from a "Today's military"
     standpoint, anyway.  There's only one West Point, after all...


          ^Hot Damn, That Pie Was Good!^
                     Common Phrases Heard at
                     RR Diner #32.

          ^Scott Gorcey, v075q5fr@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu^
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Thursday, 9 Apr 1992 16:58:57 EDT
From: <KPS@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Characters on Deep Space Nine

I'll get to the point of the subject line in a minute...

Possible spoilers for First Duty ahead....




In the recent episode First Duty, I thought it was almost a shame that the
leader of Nova squadron was expelled from starfleet academy. It seems like
such a waste to see all of that leadership and talent thrown away. He did
make a mistake, a very big mistake that cost somebody's life, but aside from
letting his ego get the best of him we see up until the very end how much
he looks out for the team (crew) and his leadership skills. There was only one
scene in this episode where he was made to look anything less than Captain
material and that was when he was talking to Wesley trying to convince him
not to come forward. I think he learned a very hard lesson and should make
an even greater leader in the future.  What I'm getting to is that I think it
would be great to see this character show up in Deep Spcace nine. We are told
that it will be somewhat grittier than TNG so this would seem like a perfect
vehicle for such a character.  Even though he would not be in starfleet he
could still be the great leader of a team that does the adventuring through
the worm holes or whatever the scenario is supposed to be. I'm sure that
Starfleet is not the only entity that does space exploration in the 24th
century. I don't know...just a thought.

Has this been discussed yet?


Kevin S.
KPS at psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: tlynch@cco.caltech.edu (Timothy W. Lynch)
Subject: Re: OPINIONATED COMMENTS (SPOILERS for THE FIRST DUTY)
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 00:51:50 GMT

kanamori@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Atsushi Kanamori) writes:

>Spoilers (in case anyone's really late)


>In article <1992Apr9.160144.23960@cco.caltech.edu> tlynch@cco.caltech.edu (Timothy W. Lynch) writes:

>>Neither can a great many, it seems.  I tried to clarify yesterday that I
>>think Locarno is basically a Kirk-cadet taken just one step over the edge;
>>sort of a "what Kirk very well might have been".  Does that work any better?

>I think it's a case of "the straw that broke the camel's back", then.
>That one small step was what made me forgive a lot of Kirk's flaws.

But if you accept the "it's just a small step between the two" argument, 
doesn't that make Locarno's amazing magnetism a bit easier to swallow?  Why
does one little change somehow change someone from "wonderful to watch" to
"incredibly unbelievable"?

>>>There was enough time; much of it could have been done between the lines -- 
>>
>>How?  You'd have to bring in at least a couple of uninvolved cadets somehow,

>Why? Like I said, much of it could be accomplished by having Nicholas
>project a different image. The "Nova Squad is a big cheese on campus"
>bit isn't really necessary, actually -- the crucial factor is to
>establish the bond between Nick and Wesley.

The former is what I was dealing with. The latter...you're right, it probably
wouldn't take much if any extra time.

>>>as Mark Miller pointed out, it's not so much WHAT you say as HOW you say it 
>>>and the image you project by your composure 
>>
>>Agreed here, but *who* is saying it is also important; and I can't think of
>>anyone who'd be a likely suspect.

>Now you've lost me. The "who" I had in mind was Nicholas... I'm confused.

Again, this was in response to the "Squadron == Academy pantheon" idea.  My
error.

>>>You pointed
>>>out that Wesley was faced with a choice between two fathers: Picard and
>>>Locarno, and that interpretation didn't work for me, *precisely* because
>>>Locarno had so little substance that the choice was, IMO, obvious. 
>>
>>Then you attended a very different high school and college than I did.  

>I don't remember any of my fellow students pressuring their friends into
>a prank that got one of them killed, no...

Oh, come on.  Now who's missing the point?  I didn't say anything about 
pranks killing people (although one girl I knew in high school was killed
out of the blue by a drunk driver about six months after graduation; if I 
ever get my hands on that guy...); I was talking about people with an apparent
lack of substance who yet draw admirers like flies.  

Tim Lynch
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: hucke@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Matt Hucke)
Subject: Re: A few comments THE FIRST DUTY brought up
Keywords: Calculus Academy FIRST DUTY
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 05:55:33 GMT

In article <1992Apr7.035123.4016@u.washington.edu> iho@cac.washington.edu writes:
>hucke@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Matt Hucke) writes:
>
>> I think there are several academies, one on earth, another on vulcan, etc.
>> This would explain why most of the cadets were human, and why the 
>> gardener personally knew all of them (which would be impossible if that 
>> one academy supplied all the officers for the entire fleet.)
>
>The gardener didn't know all of them.  Piccard was a special case.  When
>Wesley left for the Academy, Piccard told him to look up the gardener,
>saying he's the wisest man there, or something to that effect.  I got
>the impression that it wasn't standard practice for cadets to befriend
>the gardener.

Boothby also said he knew all those on the team, which seems to imply a
rather small university.

-- 
        Real Programmers Don't Eat Quiche.
                      hucke@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu
                      Gene Roddenberry 1921-1991
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: chaplin@keinstr.uucp (Roger Chaplin)
Subject: Re: Lacarno = Kirk (Spoilers "1st Duty)
Organization: Keithley Instruments, Cleveland, Ohio
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 19:41:30 GMT

In article <1992Apr6.085229.15350@uunet.uu.net> kyle@uunet.uu.net (Kyle Jones) writes:

>Nay, I'd say Locarno has learned the lessons of life very well No
>need to take the heat for something when you don't have to,
>particularly if you can blame someone who is already dead, and
>mostly responsible for their own death anyway.  Wesley was naive,
>and he let Picard bully him into making a stupid confession.

Since I don't see any smileys anywhere in this article, I say, "Pity
those who are forced by life's circumstances to interact with you
person-to-person."

-- 
Roger Chaplin / Instruments Division Engineering
chaplin@keinstr.uucp / CI$: 76307,3506
nuthin fancy here . . .

Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: wilde@husc8.harvard.edu (Robert Wilde)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Startrek on NPR
Date: 10 Apr 92 20:05:35 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc3.1992Apr10.160536.10931
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

On National Public Radio's Talk of the Nation, they spent an hour discussing
science fiction with author David Brin and coproducer Ron More of STTNG.  The
show was dedicated to Asimov and the mentioned that Asimov never was able to
buy the transporters.  There wasn't any really new info, but More did say
they are still shooting the season finale and it is going to be a "wonderful"
episode.  As for DS9, nothing is definite, even plans to move over minor
characters are only working ideas (the only definite is some guest appearences
by some TNG regulars).
There was a lot of discussion on the science of TNG and also of TOS, but I
guess that doesn't belong in .current.
Bob
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: hap@scubed.com (Hap Freiberg)
Subject: Re: Picard's Shirt
Organization: S-CUBED, A Division of Maxwell Labs; San Diego CA
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 22:48:03 GMT

In article <1992Apr2.190519.20032@bmw.mayo.edu> elw@mayo.edu (Ellis Workman) writes:
>Why is Picard always tugging at his shirt (jersey, ??).


As an ex-sailor from the bell-bottom days, I can indentify, empathise, and
sympathise with Picard and Riker.... There is no way to stand up without
having the blouse ride up one's torso or stay up in an awkward position. A
tug to put all in place was always necessary.

Hap
From: jlee@smylex.UUCP (Jeff Lee)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: the outcast from a queer perspective
Date: 8 Apr 92 06:23:23 GMT
Organization: Shipbrook Software  (Newington, CT)

In article <29E0ECCC.4027@noiro.acs.uci.edu>, cortese@hepxvt.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
>
> Why can't we just see some gay people holding hands in the corridor or
> something?

Well, there WAS a crewman in a miniskirt in "Encounter at Farpoint"...  :-)

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
       Jeff Lee - jlee@smylex.uucp - jlee%smylex.uucp@uhasun.hartford.edu
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
  Iron rusts from disuse; stagnant water loses its purity and in cold weather
  becomes frozen; even so does inaction sap the vigor of the mind -- da Vinci
From: mikeh@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (michael p.herlihy)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Lynch's Spoiler Review: "The First Duty"
Keywords: TNG, Wesley, Academy
Date: 7 Apr 92 21:26:00 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Apr7.001430.13295@cco.caltech.edu> tlynch@cco.caltech.edu (Timothy W. Lynch) writes:
>WARNING:  The following article contains critical spoiler information about 
>this week's TNG episode, "The First Duty".  Those not wishing to be caught 
>off-guard by spoilers before seeing the show are advised to stand clear.


>...maneuver called a Jaeger loop...

I thought this maneuver was called a Yeager loop named after:

 

Chuck Yeager - the first person to break the sound barrier
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current