From: djohns@elm.circa.ufl.edu (David A. Johns)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: What A White Person Learned in College About AfAm Culture
Date: 11 Jan 93 10:30:10 GMT
Organization: University of Florida, Gainesville

In article <C09Muu.Jsw@quake.sylmar.ca.us> brian@quake.sylmar.ca.us (Brian K. Yoder) writes:

# He said that he had seen very little racism. I must say that I have
# seen fairly little too.  That doesn't mean that either of us thinks
# it doesn't exist.  What it means is that blanket claims that
# "America is a Racist" country or that all blacks are discriminated
# against are quite suspect.

I basically agree with you here, but that's not the whole story.  A
very large percentage of whites has very little contact with blacks in
everyday life.  Most whites, unlike blacks, are not conscious of race
every waking moment.  It's easy for them not to be racist, and I
agree, they aren't.

But most blacks *do* have to deal with whites on a daily basis, and
very often the whites they deal with are in positions of power --
teachers, police, bank officers, bureaucrats, etc.  It is *these*
whites you have to evaluate for fairness, not whites in general.

# >   Well it's time to wake up and face reality. In the U.S. there is
# >a system of thoughts and practices among many races that does
# >not treat African Americans as full partners in american society
#
# OK, what are the components of this system?  [...] There are also a
# few businessmen who still might refuse to deal with blacks (though
# they keep it hidden and do so unofficially). What else is left?  Is
# this the "system" you are talking about, or something else?

You've conveniently omitted two major groups.  First are the police
and local government bureaucracies, which clearly treat blacks
differently.  Probably the worst aspects of this discrimination are
the failure to provide equal education and law enforcement in black
neighborhoods.

The second area is private business -- realtors, bankers, hiring
officers, etc.  Whether you agree with government involvement in the
decisions of private companies or not, the fact remains that managers
in these companies are still discriminating substantially against
blacks.  From the blacks' point of view, this is part of the "system".

# >And that is putting it as mildly as I possibly can. Why do you
# >suppose it is twice as hard for a black person to get a job as
# >a white person?
#
# Twice as hard?  How do you conclude that?  For many kinds of jobs
# (say, university professor jobs) it is exactly the opposite.

For some jobs, yes, but mostly entry level.  Blacks are more likely to
get hired in government jobs (including state universities) and in
companies under government scrutiny (mainly large corporations), but
they are less likely to get promoted.  And in small businesses, where
proof of discrimination is much harder, discrimination seems to apply
even to entry level jobs.

# Face it.  When a white male applies for a job, many employers
# openly and in print say that they will hire non-white males over
# white males if they can. While it is true that they might hire a
# white male sometimes, knowing that there is a bias (and that
# opposing it exposes one to charges of racism) makes many white
# males angry.  At least the anti-black racists have to hide their
# policies, the anti-white biases are trumpeted as good!

Yes, I'm facing this problem too.  And often it seems in academia that
even if they hire a white male they won't make the job permanent,
because they hold out hope that they'll be able to find a minority or
woman later.

But the truth is that if the hiring patterns had not been
discriminatory in the past, the jobs that seem available to me now
would already have been filled.  The job market would be as tough for
white males as it has always been for others.  It's hardly
discrimination to lose a privileged status.  Only Leona Helmsley feels
sorry for Leona Helmsley!

# I should add that nobody has experienced that for 100 years.
# People are individuals and ought to be treated according to
# individual attributes, experience, and ability, not according to
# racial history.

You seem to be saying here that no one has personally suffered 100
years of discrimination.  But culture spans generations, and when you
remove a noxious condition, all the individuals in the culture don't
suddenly act as if it had never existed.

David


Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american