From: greg_bradt@msmgate.mrg.uswest.com (Greg Bradt)
Subject: Re: Gays in the Military..what nobody is talking about:
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     <1992Dec10.181122.25797@anasazi.com>
Date: 11 Dec 92 20:56:07 GMT

In article <1992Dec10.181122.25797@anasazi.com> Mike Best, best@anasazi.com
writes:
>>>I find it highly intolerant of you to consider forcing heterosexual male
and
>>>females together without a wisp of consideration for the right to privacy.
>>
>>I leave it to the reader to decide whether it is more intolerant to assume
>>that our society is capable of outgrowing obsolete social taboos (including
>>nonsexual nudity and homosexuality), or whether the assumption that things
>>should be that way because they =are= that way reflects the true face of
>>intolerance.
>
>Certainly to force your idea of social behavior
>onto me is intolerant and insensitive to my needs.

Expecting you to behave appropriately to the circumstances is not
intolerant, it is just expecting good manners.  I was only suggesting
"forcing" (a =very= poor choice of words) males and females together under
appropriate, and very specific, circumstances.

>>>This "philosophy" is out of touch with nature, you are denying the nature
>>>of "man" by ignoring the sexual attraction that exists  especially among
>>>young people who typically make up the bulk of the armed forces.
>>
>>There is nothing "natural" about the nudity taboo.  It is purely social. 
>
>Getting an erection while showering with (many?) naked women is nothing
>but natural, unless you believe sexual attraction is a learned response.

People generally get erections in situations that they consider to be
sexual.  Once you accept that a situation is not sexual the problem ceases
to exist.  You have been conditioned to think that all nudity is sexual.  It
is not a difficult conditioning to unlearn.

Besides, getting an erection in a crowd is more difficult than you imagine.

>>Some societies accept it in all circumstances, some in "appropriate"
>>circumstances (bathing, swimming, tanning, etc.), and some (like ours)
under
>>=no= circumstances.  To suggest that only the latter is the "natural" way
is
>>patently absurd.  To use it as an excuse to segregate a class of people by
>>suggesting people are incapable of separating nudity from sex is
inexcusable.
>
>Your understanding of human nature is overlearned and out of touch with
>common sense.  How far removed are you from puberty?  

My understanding of human nature only begins with personal experience and
observation.  Your idea of "common sense" appears to be bounded by your own
personal experience.  How far out of touch are you from the rest of the
world and the lessons of history?

>>>And why do you insist on trying this is the military first?  Though we are
>>>not directly threatened at the moment, the military is the sine qua non,
>>>without which there is nothing, of any society.
>>
>>Why?  Because we want to have the best military we can possibly have.  We
>>can't have that unless we can select (intelligently, of course) from the
>>largest possible candidate pool.
>
>Your blithe refusal to admit to potential problems demonstrates that you
>are more interested in an agenda than in defending the nation.

I have never denied that there are potential problems.  All changes, even
beneficial ones, entail some problems.  I have addressed the ones presented
and offered viable ways of easing the transition.

>What you want to do is to use the tools of the government (law and enforce
>ment) to force your idea of social behavior and existance on those who
>do not agree with you.  

Excuse me, but it is just as fair to say that you are using those same tools
to force a view of sexual behavior on those who do not share it.

>Those who disagree with you have the fact that,
>though their social environment excludes those like you, it was here first.

Again, "it should be this way because it =is= this way."  A very weak
argument.

>All societies evolve on their own, but you are accelerating the process
>and are causing, perhaps, undue friction.

Our society is evolving, as well.  We collectively choose the direction of
that evolution.  I will continue to promote positive change rather than
status quo.  A society that ceases to grow begins to die.

Greg Bradt aka ()The Lensman()

greg_bradt@msmgate.mrg.uswest.com | "Freedom means sometimes
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