From: A. Satish Pai <Pai-Satish@CS.Yale.Edu> 
Subject: Re: Islam and Science 
Originator: pai@opal.CS.Yale.Edu
Organization: Yale University Computer Science Dept., New Haven CT 06520, USA
	<1992Sep23.174120.18268@blaze.cs.jhu.edu>
	<1992Sep23.211232.414@news.nd.edu> <dogar.717364245@opal4>
	<1992Sep28.153957.8109@news.nd.edu> <1992Sep29.185756.4231@cs.yale.edu>
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 22:01:50 GMT


Disclaimer: I'm not a physicist. :-) 

>>> "SA" == ahmed-shakil@CS.YALE.EDU (Shakil Waiz Ahmed) writes:

SA> From Sura Al Anbiya, 21:

SA>    30.  Do no the Unbelievers see 	

No, I don't think this one does. :-) 

SA>         That the heavens and the earth 	
SA>         Were joined together (as one 	

What are the "heavens" and the "earth"? I see nothing in descriptions of the
Big Bang that refer to heavens and earth like this. Is this supposed to be
matter and energy? Gas and solid? What does it mean? Please do elucidate.

From a cosmological point of view there are no heavens and earth, just stars
and some gas - the planets are really inconsequential. The use of these terms
implies a very geocentric view. 

Perhaps it is metaphorical, not literal? 

SA>         Unit of Creation), before 	
SA>         We clove them asunder?  	

Why the phrase "clove them asunder"? "Cleave" means to split, cut off, or
sever. I see no support in descriptions of the Big Bang that there was some
sort of giant cutting off of the material of the cosmos at any time. Rather, it
seems to have been a (rather violent) expansion with subsequent formation of
stars, galaxies etc. by gravitational forces. No cleaving of any sort. If
anything, things (elementary particles) are coming together to form new things,
not splitting apart. 

Again, there is the possibility that you see some metaphorical meaning here
that escapes me.

SA>         We made them from water 	

Water came much later. Water is a compound, made of hydrogen and oxygen. 
Hydrogen was undoubtedly formed well before water in the universe. To claim
that the universe was made from water is grossly inaccurate. Oxygen comes 
several steps after hydrogen in the thermonuclear synthesis chain. For water
to exist takes even longer - hydrogen and oxygen must accumulate in regions
far away from stars so the water can exist. The stars at least can never be
said to be made of water? One might claim that a planet like the Earth is
largely water-covered, but that is about all, I think water is not the chief
constituent of the Earth. 

Perhaps it is metaphorical, not literal, again. Perhaps this "water" is just
the primeval soup of elementary particles? It seems like the meaning of the
word "water" is being stretched a lot here. 

SA>         Every living thing.  Will they 

Living things don't enter the discussion of the Big Bang, so I won't address
this. 

SA>         Not then believe?

Why should we believe this? There are a few statements being trotted out
along with the insistence that we believe them. This is hardly the way to 
get someone to believe in something, I think. 

SA> It doesn't too much insight to understand the consistency of the above with
SA> the Big Bang theory.  

See above. There seems to be quite a lot of difference between what the 
verse says and what the BB theory says. Perhaps you can explain how to 
resolve the apparent differences I have pointed out. 

SA> [stuff deleted]

SA> But if you want to show that it is *wrong*, the burden of proof rests on
SA> your shoulders.  

I don't understand this. So every book that someone shows me I must accept
as being correct by default? The burden of proving that something is _wrong_
rests on the reader??? Strange. But I won't dwell on this topic. 

Regards,

-Satish

PS: I have another question here, by the way. It is my understanding that Islam
is very strictly monotheistic. Why then does god refer to himself in the 
plural by using "We" in the above verse? Is this just a linguistic device? 
Is there any explanation for it? 

--
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