HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: oasys.dt.navy.mil!kiviat@overmind.mind.org
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Where have all the flakes gone?
Date: 22 Jul 92 20:59:00 GMT
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD
X-mailer: Stadel 3.4a-227
X-Spam-content: irrelevant

In rec.sport.baseball, U39730@uicvm.uic.edu (Norma Kateeb) writes:
>Are there any modern day flakes left in baseball?
>Okay fans--is there anyone today--be it player, manager, GM, umpire--
>ANYONE who adds some life and fun to the game today?

Rick Dempsey has done multiple interviews as Johny Oates. They both
are about the same age/size/moustache etc. Some sports commentators
have been fooled.

Ben McDonald played for about a week with one Elvis/90210 sideburn on
a dare from Brady Anderson.

These are not as hysterical as Norm Cash going to the plate with a table
leg batting against Nolan Ryan but, it is a start.

-Brian
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: maj1@Ra.MsState.Edu (Mark "Beren" Jamison)
Subject: Re: Braves Fans
Organization: Mississippi State University
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 19:51:06 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.152628.14139@husc3.harvard.edu> vreddy@husc3.harvard.edu writes:
>In article <1992Jul23.202223.19419@rigel.econ.uga.edu>, molly@uga.edu writes:
>> In article <1992Jul23.112608.1@acad3.alaska.edu> tssb@acad3.alaska.edu writes:
>>>reIn article <1410@hades.hera.Sbi.Com>, jwhirley@zip.sbi.com (John Whirley) writes:
>>>> 
>>>> 	Yes, the Astros series was quite a let down after the Braves series.
>>>> My TBS "America's Superstation" is on the blink, please tell me how the Braves
>>>> are doing against the Mets.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 	Looks like I was in error in my reply.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 	Enjoy third place.
>>>> 
>>>> 				Yours truly,
>>>> 
>>>> 				A Reds fan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  The Braves are now in first, where we will stay. Sorry.
>> 
>> you can say that again.  
>> 
>> mr
>>>                               A Braves fan
>
>and again and again and again and again and again...
>The Braves have established themselves (finally -- this Braves fan has been
>waiting YEARS for this day) as one of the BEST major league clubs, and
>with one of the best pitching lineups, as well as some pretty damn good 
>hitting, they aren't going to be drowning any time soon. They had a slow
>start, and as far as I can figure, that's the major reason the Reds jumped
>to first, but now, with over 75% of their last 40 games, and 11 in a row,
>the Braves are the team to beat... and it just ain't gonna happen.
>Sorry to disappoint you Reds fans (and even you NL East fans). :)
>
>-- Venk Reddy --
>
>Born 'n' bred in Georgia and the Carolinas, and damn proud of it!
>Go Hornets, Braves, Falcons, and Gamecocks! :)


I beleive it's time for me to invoke Anti-Woofing theorem..

The Braves starters have thrown too many innings, and they will
be lucky to keep up with Cincinatti once they get healthy..

THe Braves will be lucky to stay in the race because of a 
strong charge by the Padres..


There hopefully that will counteracting the mindless woofing
of my fellow fan above..

--
______________________________________________________________________________
                       Still looking for Luthien
maj1@ra.msstate.edu                                 maj1@camlost.b17a.ingr.com
______________________________________________________________________________
From: carina.unm.edu!kbos@overmind.mind.org
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: More fuel for the Stats fire
Date: 22 Jul 92 20:26:00 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico
X-mailer: Stadel 3.4a-227
X-Spam-content: irrelevant

In article <1992Jul21.201152.138@ccsvax.sfasu.edu> a_copeab@ccsvax.sfasu.edu 
writes:
>In article <1992Jul21.155611.21426@adobe.com>, snichols@adobe.com (Sherri 
Nichols) writes:
>> In article <54615@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> poutsmaj@mace.cc.purdue.edu 
(unknown) writes:
>> 
>> Or probably not.  You see, most of us wouldn't try to evaluate Puckett
>> based on one partial season of major league experience (in which he batted
>> .296, btw, not .280 - big difference)
>
> Nope, there isn't much of a difference between a .280 and .296
>hitter. Assuming 550 AB over 150 games (very reasonable), this means 154 
hits
>to get a .280 average, 163 to get a .296 average. 9 lousy hits over the
>course of 150 games, or one dying quail or seeing-eye grounder every 17 
games,
>is the difference between a .280 and .296 hitter. Even the terminally
>condesending Sherri should be able to recognize this as an argument against
>using a player's batting average to determine his value, since blind luck 
can
>account for 9 hits over the course of a season.
>
>Brandon Cope

I think what Sherri is referring to is that if Kirby's established ML level 
is
.296, it's a lot easier to see him developing into a .320-.330 hitter than a
.280 could.  Batting averages vave a variance of ~+-25 points, so if Kirby 
came
up as a .296 hitter, his average spread would be .271-.321, while a .280 
hitter
would have a spread of .255-.305.  With development, those ranges could 
change 
by 10 points, in which case the .280 hitter might hit .315, while our .296
hitter could hit .331 by sheer chance.  The fact that Kirby's *career* 
average
going into '92 was .320 says that the chances of him being a .280 hitter are
the proverbial slim and none.  OVer the course of a season?  Sure, it's not 
too
significant.  But .280 hitters do NOT hit .320, at least not regularly.  A 
.296
hitter might be able to do it by lucking out on those quails, though.


-- 
*  Kurt Bose (as in * I am NOT the Antichrist, no matter what my future 
mother
*  Daisy, not Rose) * in law may think. Nor do I pretend to speak for UNM. 
Tried
*kbos@carina.unm.edu* it one time, but they caught me at it. I think they 
were a
*  Junior Stathead  * tad miffed at me, sure, but the Dean's hair DID grow 
back.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: chead@kean.ucs.mun.ca
Subject: Question on RC/27 stats?
Organization: Memorial University. St.John's Nfld, Canada
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 20:47:53 GMT

This may seem like a stupid question to some but could someone please
tell me what RC/27 means or at least what "RC" stands for.
Referring to the RC/27 stats posted for shortstops, catchers, outfielders,
etc., of course.
 
Thanks
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: RC/27 for RFs
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 17:44:47 GMT

For some reason, I left Pedro Munoz off the list.  Here is the corrected list.

In article <1992Jul24.003408.25088@leland.Stanford.EDU> claudius@leland.stanford.edu (Nelson Lu) writes:
>NATIONAL LEAGUE
>Tony Gwynn, San Diego		7.05
>Bobby Bonilla, New York		6.45
>Larry Walker, Montreal		6.19
>Paul O'Neill, Cincinnati	6.13
>Felix Jose, St. Louis		6.06
>David Justice, Atlanta		5.67
>Willie McGee, San Francisco	5.31
>Pete Incaviglia, Houston	5.24
>Andre Dawson, Chicago		5.07
>Darryl Strawberry, Los Angeles	4.83
>Eric Anthony, Houston		4.35
>Todd Benzinger, Los Angeles	3.44
>Ruben Amaro, Philadelphia	3.30
>
>AMERICAN LEAGUE
>Danny Tartabull, New York	7.69
>Tom Brunansky, Boston		6.50
>Ruben Sierra, Texas		6.47
>Rob Deer, Detroit		6.13
>Joe Carter, Toronto		6.09
>Daryl Hamilton, Milwaukee	6.00
>Mark Whiten, Cleveland		5.73
>Dante Bichette, Milwaukee	5.64
>Jose Canseco, Oakland		5.55
Pedro Munoz, Minnesota		5.22
>Joe Orsulak, Baltimore		5.05	(but Chito Martinez has a 5.16)
>Jay Buhner, Seattle		4.47
>Jim Eisenreich, Kansas City	4.47
>Von Hayes, California		4.47
>Phil Plantier, Boston		4.43
>Dan Pasqua, Chicago		3.84
>
>===============================================================================
>GO CALIFORNIA ANGELS!
>Committee to Elect Johnny Ray as Angels Second Baseman
>Committee to Elect Mike Witt as Angels Ace
>Committee to Elect Cookie Rojas as Angels Manager
>===============================================================================
>Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)

===============================================================================
GO CALIFORNIA ANGELS!
Committee to Elect Johnny Ray as Angels Second Baseman
Committee to Elect Mike Witt as Angels Ace
Committee to Elect Cookie Rojas as Angels Manager
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)
From: sieferme@milton.u.washington.edu (Eric Sieferman)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Redheaded Stranger Involved in Kill-Spree Bloodbath
Date: 21 Jul 92 19:41:19 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <1992Jul20.221521.8526@cs.umn.edu> lsmith@cs.umn.edu (Lance "Not Here" Smith) writes:
>So did everyone see who was the AL Player of the Week?
>
>What next? Jim Acker awarded Pitcher of the Month? (Well, his not playing
>has no doubt helped Seattle immensely.)
>-- 
>   Lance "Zeppelin" Smith      | "O hateful error, melancholy's stat!

For a good indication of how bad things are with the M's pitching
staff, many fans (including some knowledgeable ones) are actually
looking forward to Acker coming back.  No kidding.


-- 
| Eric Sieferman            |   ___ George Bush                      |
| U. of W., M.C.I.S.        |   ___ Bill Clinton                     |
| sieferme@u.washington.edu |   WF_ H. Ross Perot (withdrew, failing)|
|                           |   ___ Gamera                           |
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: thornley@cs.umn.edu (David H. Thornley)
Subject: Re: Hall of Famers
Keywords: I still have yet to see ANY evidence from you.
Organization: University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, CSci dept.
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 20:44:07 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.152717.1753@island.COM> fester@island.COM (Mike Fester) writes:
>In article <15347@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> zuhars@madrone.eecs.ucdavis.edu (Gary Electric Pancreas Huckabay) writes:
>>(Mike "Ducking The Issue" Fester) writes:
>>
If I can attempt to enter this debate on the issues, it seems to me that there
are two arguments going on:

Mike:  Steve Garvey was a good first baseman because he was great at scooping
throws out of the dirt.
Gary:  Steve Garvey was a bad first baseman because he had almost as much
range as Carney Lansford.

Mike's supporting evidence is his observation of Garvey and his play.  Gary's
is TB, which ranks Garvey real low on Fielding Runs.  There are known problems
with fielding runs, but I don't see that any of the major ones (partial games)
apply to Garvey.

Can we agree, at least for now, that Garvey was good at picking throws but
had little range at first?  If not, gentlemen, restart your flamethrowers.

The next question is what a good throw-scooper is worth at first.  One thing
he will do that we can try to track statistically is reduce errors by the
rest of the infield.  Another, more subtle effect, is that an infielder
might be able to throw slightly sooner or harder if he doesn't have to
worry quite so much about accuracy (this speculation is made by somebody
with no throwing ability suitable for a friendly softball game, so feel
free to dispute it).

So what's the difference in throwing errors between the best and worst
infields around?  Offhand, I'd suspect something like 20-50, and this
would include infields with real throwing problems as well as infields
with bad first basemen.  The confidence effect is probably not all that
great; how many times do you see a real close call at the bag?  Maybe
one game in three.  How many times would having a good or bad scooper
make the difference?  One time in ten?  That's about 5 outs a year.
I'd say that the difference between a good and a bad scooper at first
is no more than 30 outs per year.  If memory serves, the difference
between ranges is larger than that.  Feel free to challenge my figures
if you actually have a source.  I'm making them up.  They probably aren't
too far wrong, but you never know.

If my quick calculations are correct, a first baseman with bad range will
not be a good defensive first baseman, while one who has trouble picking
the bad throws might be.  A player with average range who can pick might
be quite good, though.

I find Gary's arguments more convincing, since they are based on range and
not catching bad throws.

David Thornley
"The manager must alway take precautions for defense against superior hitters"
- Niccolo Machiavelli


Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: dtate+@pitt.edu (David M Tate)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Pirates pull off triple play! / ZSmith on the DL! / Other News!
Keywords: triple play, comings, goings, goodbye, binaca continues
Date: 27 Jul 92 04:32:18 GMT
Organization: Factors of Ys, Inc.

In article <1510@cogsci.ucsd.EDU> king@cogsci.ucsd.EDU (Jonathan King) writes:
>Well, they Bucs finally did it:  yesterday, they waived the following
>three players for the purpose of canning them:

Shouldn't that read "the following three 'players'..."?

>"Jerry Don Gleaton"
>Jeff M."onster" Robinson
>Mike "$%*# @&!" Roesler

>It must be a happy day in Pittsburgh.  

I was turning cartwheels (and thus ankles) in the living room.

(Stuff on Steve Cooke, Paul Wagner deleted)

>The last call up was, uh, rats.  The old hippocampal lesion strikes
>again. :-) Either it was Blas Minor, a 27-year-old reliever 

Yes, it was Minor.

>The Bucs finally decided that these guys couldn't be any worse than
>the Robinsons and Gleatons of the world, and I hope they're right.
>(Thanks to Sherri for some of the info on the above players.)

They're right.  Now, if they'd just activate the same cerebral cortex zones
regarding Jeff King and John "Rat Poison" Wehner, calling up Kevin Young and
Carlos Garcia...

>At this time, I must sadly announce that this will be my last
>non-Binaca post to r.s.bb for an indefinite period of time.  

Godspeed, Jon.  Y'all come back, y'hear?


-- 
        David Tate         |  "Complacencies of the fungo, and late 
  dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu  |   Infield and B.P. in a sunny field
     "Sunday Afternoon"    |   [...]         mingle to dissipate
  Wallace "Vern" Stevens   |   The holy hush of Pastime National..."
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: Herzog Seen Shopping In Syracuse
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 17:16:31 GMT

In article <1070.2a6fcc3c@atlas.nafb.trw.com> mspede@atlas.nafb.trw.com writes:

>     The rumor as of last week was a 5-for-1 deal in which toronto would get
>  Abbott and the angels would get Derek Bell, (ugh!, mental block... there were
>  others named).   I think that toronto figures that it's going to lose decent
>  players in the expansion draft so they might as well make a multi-player
>  deal.

I hate losing Abbott, but I wouldn't mind making this deal:

Abbott for Bell, Sprague, Kent, Hentgen, Wells

Well, I can dream, can't I?  (And actually, take Wells out and substitute
Stottlemyre, and you have a deal that the Blue Jays might accept.  I would
then turn around and deal Stottlemyre...)

If the Angels can manage to pull this deal off, they are in good (but not
all that good) shape for next year:

C:	Sprague
1B:	Barbara
2B:	Flora
SS:	Sojo or Gonzales
3B:	Kent
LF:	Bell
CF:	Curtis
RF:	Felix
DH:	Polonia/Salmon

I like this lineup.  (And, if Kent can play shortstop, I might venture to
move him there and Curtis back to 3B to get Salmon into the lineup.)

===============================================================================
GO CALIFORNIA ANGELS!
Committee to Elect Johnny Ray as Angels Second Baseman
Committee to Elect Mike Witt as Angels Ace
Committee to Elect Cookie Rojas as Angels Manager
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)
From: silber@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Ami A. Silberman)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Home/road differentials (was ARTIFICIAL TURF: EMBARRASSMENT)
Date: 28 Jul 92 23:10:53 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL

On a related topic, how much of the homefield ERA advantage is due to the
visiting team not pitching in the bottom of the ninth if they have lost,
or the visiting team not pitching a complete inning if they lose in the
bottom of the ninth or latter? How much of it is due to official scorers?
For the purposes of the following, assume that the league average RA is
4.5.
	My suspicion is that if you were to look at the RAs of hometeams
and away teams (RA includes unearned) based only upon play through the
eighth inning, the homefield advantage would be greatly diminished.
I think a major factor must be the non-allowance of nine innings pitched.
If you think about it, assuming that my pitching staff is not incredibly 
awful, if I've given up 4 runs in eight innings and am allowed to pitch
a ninth, my era won't, on the average change. If I've given up two runs,
it will probably get worse, if I've given up six runs, it will probably
get better. (For instance, 6 runs in 8 innings is an ERA of 6.75. If I
pitch a ninth inning, I will give up a average of .5 runs, making my
ERA 6.5. Likewise, if I gave up 2 runs in 8 innings, my ERA is 2.25,
if I pitch the ninth it will go up to 2.5.) If I am the home team, I
pitch the ninth inning no matter what. As the road team, I am less likely
to pitch the ninth inning if I have given up 6 runs than if I have given up
2. (Since I'm likely in either case to be using a reliever, I think that
any argument about correlation between the rate of runs scored in the first 8 
innings and in subsequent innings is moot.)
Thus, by this effect, my ERA is more likely to go up after the eighth inning
than to go down if I am the visiting team. (Since the ERA doesn't change if
there isn't a ninth inning.)
	I think that the effects for games lost in the bottom of the ninth
may be similar, but I won't commit to it due to the grouping of runs.
(The home team will always pitch a full inning, thus allowing for more outs
to dilute the runs, but the visiting team will probably give up slightly
fewer runs due to games ending as soon as the winning run scores.)
-- 
ami silberman - janitor of lunacy
	silber@cs.uiuc.edu
From: jm6t+@andrew.cmu.edu (John McDowell)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: BLM Baseball
Date: 30 Jul 92 12:57:16 GMT
Organization: Administrative Systems, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Last night I was rooting through some old stuff that I cleaned out of my
parents attic and I came upon a newsletter and an ad for BLM (Big League
Manager) Baseball. I used to play this game in the mid 60's. The game
itself which I once had must of gotten thrown away or something stupid
like that. I used to enjoy it very much and I thought it was much better
than APBA. I think the makers of BLM were in Duluth and were called
Negamco. They also made a basketball game (which survived and I still
have), football and hockey. Anyway I would be interested in hearing from
anyone who used to play this game or knows anything about it.
********************************************************
*  JOHN MCDOWELL        *  Administrative Systems      *
*  jm6t@andrew.cmu.edu  *  Carnegie Mellon University  *
*  (412) 268-3313       *  UCC 150                     *
********************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: seth@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (peter.r.clark..jr)
Subject: Orioles home schedule request
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 21:58:27 GMT

Could somebody please supply me with an Orioles home schedule for Thu,
Fri, Sat and Sun games for the rest of the season? My wife and I are
planning a trip to Baltimore/DC and we'd like to try and stop in to
Camden Yards. respond via e-mail please.

thanks in advance,
pete clark
att!hos1cad!seth 
or
seth@hos1cad.att.com
Organization: Junior, Electrical and Computer Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 14:01:17 -0400 
From: Amit Likhyani <al1x+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Both Canadian teams in first place

Excerpts from netnews.rec.sport.baseball: 29-Jul-92 Both Canadian teams
in firs.. by Tim Maceachern@fox.nstn. 
> I believe this is the first time (other than the first one or two days 
> of a season) that both Canadian teams have been in first place at the
> same time.  How'd you like a World Series played completely in Canada, eh?

We don't need the Canadian supremecy.  The Expos may well win the
division, but what is the relevance of 2 Canadian teams in first place. 
No one ever notes that American teams lead all of the divisions or that
a Canadian team
has never won a World Series or that the Expos will be playing in Florida
by the end of the millenium.  I think an all Canadian world series would suck
and I would not take time out of my semester to watch it.  It would be a 
ratings disaster.  Even if Montreal played the New York Yankees, it would
still be a ratings disaster.  Why do you people have to gloat when the 
Canadian teams do well?

Always Making Friends,
Mit
From: i000506@disc.dla.mil (Carlos Deno)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Baseball Cards
Keywords: Mc Donald gold cards.
Date: 28 Jul 92 18:33:14 GMT
Organization: Defense Industrial Supply Center, Philadelphia, Pa


MC DONALD GOLD CARDS FOR SALE SETS AND SINGLES CONTACT JIM ROSSI
COM.215-697-0299 OR DSN 442-0299.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols)
Subject: Re: Value of Stats
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 15:40:43 GMT

In article <BrtFrJ.9MH@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> djohnson@cayley.waterloo.edu (David Johnson) writes:
>>>>>>>If Rance Mulliniks, Derek Bell, and Rob Ducey don't think that a .300 hitter
>>>>>>>15HR and 50 RBI man so far shouldn't be playing then they shouldn't be
>>>>>>>considered team players as well.  

>What I am saying is that there is a good way and a bad way in dealing with
>a problem with other players or managers. If Derek feels that Winfield
>a problem in the clubhouse then the good way to deal with this is to
>discuss it with the manager or upper management.  If the management feels
>that Derek has a reasonable complaint then I am sure that they would do
>something about it.  If it is not a reasonable complaint and Derek thinks
>that it is going to affect his play then Derek has every right to ask for
>a trade or whatever he wants to ask for.

So, in other words, you don't stand by your original statement above that
if Derek Bell doesn't think that a .300 hitter 15 HR and 50 RBI man
shouldn't be playing, then he isn't a team player, that there can be
circumstances under which it is okay to complain in the proper way about
it.  That's what I wanted to get straight.

Sherri Nichols
snichols@adobe.com