HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Gerry.Mulvenna@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Gerry Mulvenna)
Subject: Re: Scottish Newsgroup
Summary: Irn Bru and Tequila 
Organization: The Queen's University of Belfast, Ireland
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 10:07:48 GMT

In article <1992Oct4.195647.4319@news.clarkson.edu> walker@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Graham Walker, 227 West Old Main,268-3847,) writes:
>From article <1992Oct4.082321.3797@rdg.dec.com>, by cockburn@edieng.enet.dec.com (Craig Cockburn):
>> 
>> In article <1992Oct3.232158.7877@philmtl.philips.ca>, ray@philmtl.philips.ca (Ray Dunn) writes...
>>> 
>>>Rather than me make some up.  maybe Craig would like to post some of the
>>>topics under discussion in his local Digital group to show what is
>>>appropriate in a Scottish forum but not in the general celtic one.
>>>-- 
>> Here's a few ideas to get you started:
>> 
>> Irn Bru
>>
>
>This should obviously carry a Government Health Warning, since increased
>levels of iron in the blood has been linked with heart attacks. There we
>now have a discussion going in this group about Irn Bru.
>
>											GW

Has anybody ever tried Irn Bru and Tequila?  A friend of mine says its
makes a pleasant change from the usual shorts and mixers.

Gerry Mulvenna (osg1688@v2.qub.ac.uk)  

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Brent Irvine)
Subject: Re: American Bashing
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 15:37:37 GMT

>
>My arguement is not against independance, but to be careful as to why
>this independance is being sought. Also, what happens if the Shetlands
>(or Grampian for that matter) wants to seceed(sp?) from an independant
>Scotland?

Then everyone would pull out, and Scotland would resemble Scotland
of Old:  A bunch of warring clans! :):):):):):):):):):):):)


-- 
Brent L. Irvine					"Dyslexics of the World
irvine@decwa.ece.uiuc.edu			UNTIE!"		- Kral Maxr
From: piij@hippo.ru.ac.za (Mr ID Jennings)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: survival of Celtic languages
Summary: What are the prospects facing the Celtic languages?
Keywords: survival, Celtic, languages
Date: 4 Oct 92 09:20:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: hippo.1992Oct4.092009.9011
Organization: Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa

A few questions, hopefully not too naive:

What proportion of Irish, Scottish, Welsh and Breton people speak the
Celtic languages that originate in those places?

What is the likelihood of these languages increasing in influence, as
opposed to dying out?  The impression that I get here (in Africa) is
that they are not likely to withstand the influence of English much
longer.

And I have that impression partly because it seems to me that efforts to
encourage language use are often counter-productive or simply
ineffective.  What steps are being taken to ensure the survival of these
languages as a going concern and how successful have they been?
-- 
Ian Jennings
Philosophy Department
Rhodes University
Grahamstown 6140
From: morna@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Morna J Findlay)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: American Bashing
Date: 28 Sep 92 16:38:30 GMT
Reply-To: morna@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Morna J Findlay)
Organization: Laboratory for the Foundations of Computer Science, Edinburgh U

In article <CC.92Sep28150818@arran.dcs.ed.ac.uk> cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Chris Cooke) writes:
>In article <44998@skye.dcs.ed.ac.uk> morna@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Morna J Findlay) writes:
>
>   So, I am not a member of the Scottish National Party and never will be,
>   despite hoping for Scottish Independcance in the not too distant future.
>
>Sure, but I don't see what the SNP has to do with all this.  You might as
>well say, "I don't want to see black people hanging by their necks from
>lamposts, so I'm not a member of the Scottish Conservative Party".  Siol nan
>Gaidheal sound like an extremely nasty lunatic fringe, nothing to do with the
>SNP.

Well, SNG certainly used to be attached to the SNP but I can't say
whether or not they are now.


Perhaps I put the above rather badly. I am not accusing the SNP of being
a rascist party. My posting was meant to indicate my suspicions
of nationalism in general, and therefore the fact that while I believe
that Independance ( the main ain of the SNP ) is desireable for
Scotland, I choose not to support or work for the party that proposes
it.

So I would vote for Independance, but not for the SNP.

There are quite a few people in the Labour Party, the Greens, the
Liberals, for example, who are pro-independance but who don't
have anything to do with a party which has nationalism as the main creed
that binds it's members together.

Hope that clarifies things

M

--
Morna Findlay 					JANET:morna@uk.ac.ed.dcs 
	Thanksgiving For a National Victory (Robert Burns)
Ye hypocrites! are these your pranks? To murder men and give God thanks?
Desist, for shame! Proceed no further: God won't accept your thanks for murther.
From: dam@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (David Morning)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Nationalism - or Why do people have flags in their gardens?
Date: 6 Oct 92 10:52:22 GMT
Organization: Glasgow University Computing Science Dept.

ulick@angelico.helios.nd.edu (Ulick Stafford) writes:

>In article <1992Oct4.201952.26162@rdg.dec.com> spain@galvia.enet.dec.com () writes:

>>Sorry Ulick, I'm Irish and proud of it.  I may not support the IRA and I
>>may not like the sectarian policies of the GAA but that doesn't make me any
>>less Irish.

>Let's define Irishness.

I'm out of here!!!

"Let's define Irishness"???? 

Jeez!! 
This should be good!! :-)

Let the flame wars begin!!

Dave


--
From: spain@galvia.enet.dec.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Nationalism - or Why do people have flags in their gardens?
Date: 28 Sep 92 15:15:29 GMT
Reply-To: spain@galvia.enet.dec.com ()
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation

--
In article <1992Sep28.135828.2962@samba.oit.unc.edu>, hughes@physics.unc.edu (W. Christopher Hughes) writes:

|>I was traveling between Donegal and Mayo on the 12th of July in 1991
|>and saw a large group of people with sashes following a Union Jack.
|>However, in Mayo I also saw quite a few homes, pubs, and businesses
|>flying either the tricolor or the papal flag.
|>
|>Of course, Ireland during marching season isn't quite like the rest
|>of the world.

You obviously came upon one of the few Orange marches in the Republic.

As for the tricolours and papal flags in Mayo.  Well, maybe there was some big
event in Knock.  Normally you would not see flags hanging from houses here
but if there was a big sporting event the place could be awash with flags.
Apparently during the world cup there were tricolours everywhere.  
There are green and yellow flags all over Donegal because they have just won
the All Ireland.

In Northern Ireland flags are flown to show you are very British or very
Irish.  The tricolour and the Union flag take on a new meaning.


       Gary Spain, DEC, Galway, Ireland   - spain@galvia.enet.dec.com

  On being a football fan: "I am aware of the downside to this wonderful 
  facility that men have: they become repressed, they fail in their 
  relationships with women,their conversation is trivial and boorish, they 
  find themselves unable to express their emotional needs, they cannot relate
  to their children, and die lonely and miserable. But you know, what the hell?"
								   Nick Hornby
From: gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary L. Newell)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: My Ugly American post for the year....
Date: 30 Sep 92 09:57:42 GMT
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson

In article <1992Sep30.033926.272@netcom.com>, dmcnamar@netcom.com (Dennis McManara) writes:
> I just wanted to say that this arrogant ranting is not shared by all
> USA'ans. It furthers the notion that this really is Tir na O/g.

 I just wanted to say that this wimpering whining is not shared by
most Americans and that some of us still have enough pride to laugh
at the hypocrisy shown by some in this group - and as I have said - if
you don't like it - tough... get used to it...

>    The Taoseach was in San Francisco recently, along with the European
> Treasures of the Irish Museums collection, and was interviewed on a
> local Public Radio Station. The interviewer said she had recently
> traveled to Ireland, and had been impressed by how such a rich nation
> it is.
>    That sounded really odd to my ears, but of course she meant rich
> in human values, from the fine art of the exhibit, to the traditional
> music and dance, etc.
>    Meanwhile we USA'ans must bear with music like Ice-T, and silly
> TV sitcoms that insult one's intelligence.

 Are you really this dumb? Seriously, I'll play your game but what is your 
point? Beside kissing ass what exactly is it you are trying to achieve here?
Tell me - how often do you really think I listen to "Ice-T" ??? Actually, I 
listen to bands like the Clach (see "Something about England") and a
number of other bands half of which are from Britain - no I don't kiss up to
the English or the Germans or the French ( God Forbid) nor shall I - your
rather "please don't yell at me" attitude is sad to say the least - the day I 
apologize o US-bashers in s.c.c is the day I finally get put away for good.

				gln
From: mike@fionn.lbl.gov (Michael Helm)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Celtic Nationalism or something similar
Date: 30 Sep 1992 18:09:15 GMT
Organization: N.I.C.E.
Reply-To: mike@fionn.lbl.gov (Michael Helm)
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.128.60

Morna J Findlay writes:
>said US personal columns have people looking for "Celtic" partners.
(Mise!)

>Do I detect a suggestion in the air that Celtic-ness is replacing
>Aryan-ness as some sort of "ideal" to certain nasty types?

I wondered that myself -- but here's an interesting data point
(I'm not going to give sources [in a posting] for this because real
people are involved.)  A local newspaper had a long article about
artificial insemination some time back.  One of the women interviewed
had gone to a sperm bank, & had "inspected" the attributes of various
donors -- she chose a tall fair haired donor because she wanted a
child fathered by a "Celtic" man & the child to have "Celtic" looks.

The woman, from name & from photograph, was obviously Jewish.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: esharp@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Edwin Sharp)
Subject: Sir Walter Scott
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Distribution: all
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 23:07:17 GMT

	I am a fan of Sir Walter Scott's writings and am interested if anyone
can direct me to a place where I can purchase a set printed around 1880-1890 
in Scotland or England.  Most of the sets I can find in the U.S. were printed
here and I would like a set printed in Scotland or England.
	I was also wondering if Scottish Nationalist groups are still using
him as a source.  It is generally known that he wanted a Scotland seperate
from England and a few years ago I heard on CNN that some groups were using
his works as historical evidence of the nationalist feelings.  
	Just some thoughts.....
Edwin

Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: dam@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (David Morning)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Nationalism - or Why do people have flags in their gardens?
Date: 6 Oct 92 11:57:01 GMT
Organization: Glasgow University Computing Science Dept.

phys218@csc.canterbury.ac.nz writes:

>Let's have some truth here.  Soccer is soccer and not "football" in the
>U.S., Canada, Australia and New Zealand, i.e. in most of the English-
>speaking world.  What they mean by some word resembling and derived from
>"football" in Spanish or Portugese or any other language is utterly
>irrelevant to the question of what the words mean in English.

..and just to follow up a bit more on this. The game 'football' was played
in *many* countries long before the oval ball variations arrived. It was
called 'football' and it's derivitives then. When did it change to 'soccer'?
With the advent of the US variety?

>Taking the population of North America into account, I would guess that
>American football is played by more people in English-speaking countries
>than any other form of football.

>You speak your dialect and I'll speak mine, but please stop making
>grandiose claims for yours.

Well, speaking of grandiose claims would you care to quantify the above
comment?

Like the numbers of people playing American football vs the numbers of people
playing and using the term football for soccer?


Dave
-- 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: eamon@netcom.com (Charles E Taggart)
Subject: Re: Learning The Gaelic Language
Summary: Depends on =where= you use it ...
Keywords: using Irish language in Ireland
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 22:33:05 GMT

In article <92275.120142RBYAML@rohvm1.rohmhaas.com> Aengus Lawlor <RBYAML@rohvm1.rohmhaas.com> writes:
>You already know enought Gaelic to be a good tourist (none at all!).
>Seriously, Irish is not required in any part of Ireland, (which is both
>fortunate and unfortunate, but that's a different debate) and it's
>quite likely that attempts to use Irish could cause embarrassment for
>yourself and/or your host. Some people have very negative attitudes to
>Irish, some people are embarrassed at having lost what Irish they learnt
>at school, some poeple consider Irish to have unacceptable political
>overtones, and some people may just find it patronising.
>
>NOTE WELL: You are also likely to find people who would be more than happy
>to speak Irish with you, and who would be more than happy to help you
>learn more of the language. But if you walk into a shop and try to buy
>something "as Gaeilge", you are likley to be looked at as though you had
>two heads.
>
>I'm sorry if this sounds negative, but it would be a shame if you were to
>spend some time preparing in this way, and be disappointed when you got
>to Ireland. If you are primarily interested in visiting Ireland for the
>purpose of learning the language, I believe groups like Gael Linn do run
>run summer schools for adults.
>
>Aengus

Keith -- unfortunately, in many ways Aengus is right about this, as I
found out a few years ago ... I've gotten one or two "two-headed looks"
trying to use Irish in some parts of Ireland.  One good friend of mine in
Galway thinks I'm mad:  "They're after beating it into me for EIGHTEEN
YEARS in school!  And you're doing this =voluntarily=?!?"  ;-)

But my most rewarding experiences with trying to use what Irish I know has
been in the Aran Islands, and in the Connemara and Donegal Gaeltachtai/,
where you're more likely to hear the language used.  If you've studied any
Irish, or if you've got your heart set on learning some, these places
might be good places to try.  I've gotten fairly warm and appreciative
reactions there.

>"How about some of that famous Dublin wit, Barman?"
>"Certainly, sir. Would that be Dry or Sparkling?"

Love that .sig ...

Cheers,
  ,
  Eamon
-- 
          ,                                          
  Charles Eamon Taggart   | "Time and space are playing games with people 
     eamon@netcom.com     |  who don't understand / You can't talk about
   eamont@well.sf.ca.us   |  the weather when you've killed the weatherman."
 Santa Monica, California |                      -- Toasted Heretic
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: ray@philmtl.philips.ca (Ray Dunn)
Subject: Re: Kilt availability.
Organization: On the Brew.
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 02:29:07 GMT

Clearly women have every right to dress themselves up as men and play in a
pipe band, but that doesn't mean that we should suddenly understand that
the kilt is usual female attire.

I'd never seen a women's pipe-band until I left Scotland and came to NA,
and the _last_ one I saw was attempting to play that well known Scottish
air, "Yankee Doodle Dandy".

I've heard some very competant women pipers and drummers, and some extremely
good bands with female members, but never I must admit, a good all-female
band, although I presume there must be some.  But why must the female
members wear men's traditional attire?

Probably too frivolous a cross-example, but anyway, if men became members
of a cheer-leader squad, would it be reasonable for them to wear tights and
short skirts.  If they did, would that imply that tights and skirts were
usual mens' dress?

Alasdair wrote:
>I'm sure there are women in German oompah bands who wear lederhosen,
>but that doesn't stop it being a traditionally male costume. 

to which Morna replied: 
>It doesn't stop it being Lederhosen either. :-)

Very true, but not really the point.  Alasdair got it right in one.
-- 
Ray Dunn at home  |  Beaconsfield,  Quebec,  Canada.
(514) 630 3749    |  ray@philmtl.philips.ca  or  ..uunet!sobeco!philmtl!ray
From: suzanne@mailhub.scf.lmsc.lockheed.com (Suzanne Barrett)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: This is *not* soc.culture.american
Date: 30 Sep 92 18:59:39 GMT
Article-I.D.: mailhub.suzanne.85
Organization: Lockheed Santa Cruz, CA.

In article <BvC0DC.Jn9@agora.rain.com> trifid@agora.rain.com (Roadster Racewerks) writes:



>Although I am also named Suzanne, and perfectly happy to be an American, quite
>frankly, if I had wanted to read soc.culture.usa (or whatever it is) I would
>have subscribed to it.

>How about those who want to ramble/rant on about this subject either take it
>to email, or to whatever newsgroup it belongs in? As you say in England, 
>Matthew, Give It A Rest.

>Suze

>trifid@agora.rain.com

I am another Suzanne who strongly seconds this suggestion.
-----
suzanne@mailhub.scf.lmsc.lockheed.com
From: mike@inti.lbl.gov (Michael Helm)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Homogenization (Re: My Ugly American post for the year....)
Date: 6 Oct 1992 20:11:59 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory, Berkeley CA
Reply-To: mike@inti.lbl.gov (Michael Helm)
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.128.82

Changed the subject hope you don't mind.  
John Wexler writes:
gln> Clearly this "homogenization" did more to empower the
gln> individual in his search for a unique and to him/her superior form of

>I'm not convinced. I accept that this effect does occur, and it's a good
>thing, but there are counterbalancing problems.

>(1) The performer faces the pressure to please a much wider audience

Why?

>(2) If somebody discovers that the homogenised audience likes some sound
>or style, then a flood of music appears which makes some unskilled and

Yes, I've heard this -- ok so far

>talentless approximation to it.  The audience, by and large, can't tell
>the difference (whereas the local audience for the original music would
>have recognised good from bad).

Well -- 
        what's good for you may not be good for me
        what's stopping the "larger" audience from learning?
I've certainly gone thru progressions with different musical styles,
where over time certain artists became less valuable to me, & others
rose in my estimation.  My tastes learned "sophistication", or
whatever.  Is that untypical?  The local audience isn't born with
innate taste for their music, they learned it too.

>By the usual mechanisms of the market,
>bad music drives out good.

Specious!

I think the original postings on this were actually addressing the
inverse of this problem, namely that some culturally imperialistic
style drives out the local styles.  I guess the locals can "unlearn"
their superior tastes too.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: silva@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Holly Silva)
Subject: Re: My Ugly American post for the year....
Organization: Stanford Univ. Earth Sciences
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 00:55:09 GMT

>(Michael Steven Newton) writes:
>>   Yes, pride goeth before a fall.  Thanks, Gary, for displaying the
>>   unspoken truth which so many Americans hide deep in their tiny hearts
>>   but are too often afraid to expose in the cold light of day.  The rest
>>   of us are terribly ashamed of our culture, language and country, and
>>   wish we could adopt the greatness of your shining exemplary country,
>>   especially as advertised on your wonderful cultural awareness campaign
>>   you've been promoting through television.
>
>>   How shall we start?  Perhaps we could first find a number of poor
>>   third world nations with untapped natural resources, overthrow their
>>   governments (by replacing less just rule by "democracy"), and put in
>>   some rulers who would owe us something.  Much like the CIA has done
>>   to ensure the dominance of the US.

	Not to bring the topic back to celtic lands and people, but your
ancestors were actually rather adept at this sort of thing at one time.
Just last century if one can trust the history books on that score. A
little discussed side-effect of the lack of opportunity for celtic
races in the old British Empire is that they were disproportionately
well-represented among the colonist-emigres who settled North
America, Australia and New Zealand. Acting as proxies for the British,
The Scots, Scotch-Irish, Welsh and Irish did quite a bit of damage to 
the third world, back in the days when it was called 'the colonies'.
Didn't Scots also dominated some branches of the armed forces and mid-
level bureaucracy of the British Raj in India? I'd read somewhere that
the British response to the Sepoy Rebellion was spear-headed by Scottish
regiments.

	In regards to dealing with Gary Newell, you might want to 
applied to the hearty net.denizens of rec.sports.basketball, if you 
receive it. Gary made a loudmouthed ass of himself in that group,
and they responded with such vigor and violence that he took to
posting via his wife's account. They cottoned onto him quite rapidly
(distinctive posting style I guess) and proceeded to give poor 
"Anne" quite a hard time. ; )
	So, "Anne" how's that bikini tan doing?
--
======================================================================
|| Holly Silva			I have nothing terribly clever to say||
|| Applied Earth Sciences	today.  You're in luck.		     ||
|| Stanford University						     ||
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: eamon@netcom.com (Charles E Taggart)
Subject: Re: My Ugly American post for the year....
Summary: What Dennis said
Keywords: ugly Americans relax
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 06:49:54 GMT

Dennis McNamara writes:

>>Gary L. Newell writes:
>>
>>Frankly - who gives a damn? I couldn't care less what Europeans think of
>>the US or Americans. In fact, I doubt if most americans would give
>>two-cents for the views on the US from Europeans. We are still the leader 
>>of the free world and we are still the most powerful nation on earth.
>>If that bothers you - well too bad - get used to it. Self-righteous, American
>
>I just wanted to say that this arrogant ranting is not shared by all USA'ans.

Seconded, Dennis.
  ,
  Eamon
-- 
          ,                                          
  Charles Eamon Taggart   | "Time and space are playing games with people 
     eamon@netcom.com     |  who don't understand / You can't talk about
   eamont@well.sf.ca.us   |  the weather when you've killed the weatherman."
 Santa Monica, California |                      -- Toasted Heretic
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