HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: willie@osf.org (William Williams)
Subject: Re: Red Sox and the draft
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 15:12:37 GMT


<Could any Red Sox fans out there please inform me who the Red Sox
<protected in the draft, if this is known, and give me opinions on the loss of 
<Wedge and Reed.

After Reed was selected, according to WEEI this morning, the Red Sox
added McNeely, Dopson, Scott Taylor (good Pawtucket pitching stats), 
and Nate Minchey (minor league prospect acquired in Reardon deal).
The Globe qualified this list with "It appears the Red Sox decided
to protect..."  Gorman was quoted as saying the added list was con-
fidential.

When asked about Wedge, Gorman said, "They've got Wedge in the Hall of
Fame.   Why is it such a big thing?  I'd like to think we know
players.  If Wedge ends up being an outstanding hitter, maybe that's a
mistake.  We made our decision based on judgment and we had reasons
for doing it.  And we stand by our decision."  Then, later, regarding
the strategy, "Not bad at all.  We're not concerned at all."  The
Shaughnessy article goes on to imply Gorman miscounted the number of
catchers taken up to that point, and this figured into his thinking.

Wedge is bitter, and points out that his hitting only came around this
year, and that he made his way up through the minors on his defensive
ability.

And I bet the best they'll do in the free agent market is Mark
McGuire.
Organization: Senior, Electrical and Computer Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 22:12:41 -0500 
From: Amit Likhyani <al1x+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Kirby Puckett
Distribution: usa

Excerpts from netnews.rec.sport.baseball: 23-Nov-92 Kirby Puckett by
Eric Graftaas@plains.NoD 
> Let me just say that the real MVP of the American League is Kirby Puckett
> of the Minnesota  Twins. Nobody can outplay him. He's probably the best
> player in baseball.  To all of you in Chicago-- Forget it Kirby is going
> to stay here. 
>  
> I'm going out a limb and saying that Minnesota will be in the 1993 World
> Series. Look at their probable line up.
>  
> 1st Hrbek
> 2nd Knoblouck
> ss  Leius
> 3rd Boggs
> LF  Mack
> CF  Puckett               Looks like the core of World Champs
> RF  Munoz
> C   Harper
> SP  Smiley
>     Tapeni
>     Erickson
>     Mahomes
>     Banks
> RP  Aguillari

Do you hang out with Anuj Gupta?
From: libwca@emory.edu (Bill Anderson)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Keith Mitchell ???
Date: 18 Nov 92 22:24:07 GMT
Article-I.D.: emoryu1.1460
Organization: Emory University, Atlanta, GA
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

jhopkins@cbacc.cba.uga.edu (John Hopkins) writes:
: In article <1992Nov18.213318.6239@cs.tulane.edu> eebonar@sn01.sncc.lsu.edu (Dave Bonar) writes:
: 
: >I figure that the Brave's three protect
: >players (after the loss of Neid) were Pete Smith, Merker and Mitchell.  
: 
: I figure Smith, Mercker, and Lemke.

Word around these parts is it was Donnie Elliot.  Protected after
the second round were Lemke, Belliard and Leibrandt.  If this is
true, one can only doubt the sanity of Colorado and Florida
management- Ramon Carballo and Tony Tarasco were available
throughout the draft, and they take a light-hitting shortstop and a
mediocre pitcher?  I ask ya...

Bill    .
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: scott@asd.com (Scott Barman)
Subject: Re: St.Louis protected (was NL protected lists)
Organization: American Software Development Corp., West Babylon, NY
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 18:28:42 GMT

In article <Bxv4Lp.Lw6@encore.com> jsosa@encore.com (Joe Sosa) writes:
>I'm a Marlin-fan, (Mar-fan, no, Marlinatic, no, Marlan, no, doesn't seem to
>fit like Dol-fan),

Does this mean that NL fans can take up the cry of "Squish the Fish!"?? :-)

(sorry folks, it's been a rough week... I need some fun!)
-- 
scott barman			| <This space intentionally left blank>
scott@asd.com			|
 (I can barely speak for myself, you expect me to speak for my employer??)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: kirsch@staff.tc.umn.edu (Dave 'Almost Cursed the Jays' Kirsch)
Subject: Re: Comments on NL protected lists
Organization: Li'l Carlos and the Hormones
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 00:02:08 GMT

In article <1992Nov14.075046.1831@Princeton.EDU> niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David 'knights who say' Nieporent) writes:
>From the list posted, here are the decisions I couldn't understand in
>the National League:
>
>Atlanta: The Nixon thing has been rehashed on the net.  I don't get it.
>	And Hunter is another mostly worthless player.  They have so
>	much talent.  Why are they protecting the bad people?
>	Why would *anyone* protect Hunter over Mitchell?

  Decent power potential. Of course, that's how I'd justify protecting Hunter
over Nixon; he has not business keeping Keith Mitchell from a protection
spot. 

>Pittsburgh: Jeff King?  Gosh, these guys are gluttons for punishment.
>	Did they see Alex Cole play last year?  What are they thinking?

  If King can cut it at second base and Leyland is willing to play him there,
I can *maybe* see it. Otherwise, you might see Dave Tate visiting Ted
Simmons' office to flog him with wet breadsticks. 

>St. Louis: Am I the only one who doesn't get excited over Brian Jordan?  

  Nope. He might do a Deion Sanders impression, but I'm not going to put any
money on it. 

>San Diego: How can you not protect Whitehurst?  How can you protect
>	Darrin Jackson?  At least they aren't protecting Jerald Clark.

  Darrin Jackson I can see, because he's got value as long as he can survive 
in CF and provide good power from that position. 

>San Francisco: Benjamin?  Over Decker?

  Hee hee har har bwahahahaha. Sure, right, like any front office would lack 
the mid-20's IQ it would require to protect Decker over Benjamin. 

  Oops, I forgot, this is the 'jints we're talking about. Mike Benjamin, as a
baseball player, is worth roughly the dollar equivalent of the chemicals
inside his body. He's a waste of skin. 

  Then again, Pat Gillick protected Stots, Randy Knorr and Domingo Martinez
ahead of Nigel Wilson and Juan DeLarosa, among others. If the deal with
California for Jim Abbott is a done deal, I guess I can understand Gillick's
rationale. It still doesn't make it right to lose Nigel Wilson! He was only
22 this year, and had a season the Major League Equivalency (MLE) of which
was .265/.299/.492 with 32 2B and 25 HRs. He's already Joe Carter with the
bat, and has a chance to get much better. (His projection for next year is 
the same as his MLE, since this was his first year at AA.) 

  If the Jim Abbott deal doesn't happen, looks like I'll have to borrow the
r.s.bb ammo supply to strafe Gillick's office. Maybe I could just do a
simulation run through the Mpls. Star/Tribune office and hit Patrick Reusse/
Sid Hartman by 'accident'. (Hee hee.) 
 
-- 
Dave Hung Like a Jim Acker Slider Kirsch            kirsch@staff.tc.umn.edu 
Toronto Blue Jays - 1992 World Champions!   Crazy in love with Julie Sexton 
"I believe virtually everything I read, and I think that is what makes me
   MORE of a selective human"  - Joe Average, baseball fan and media puppet
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: kirby@athena.cs.uga.edu (Steven Kirby)
Subject: Re: Draft Conspiracy Theory
Keywords: draft, Marlins, Rockies, Dodgers, Cubs
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 01:23:16 GMT

I'm not so sure that the loss of Gary Scott is a big blow to my Cubbies.
Sure, he's demonstrated the ability to be an opening day third baseman.
His problem has been sticking around to be the starter in August.  And,
after all, we got a decent left handed pitcher for him (he was, of
course, part of a trade for Greg Hibbard, not taken in the draft).  So,
no, I don't think there is much evidence of a conspiracy against other
NL teams.  Frankly, having been a Cubs fan for over a decade, I have to
wonder why *anyone* would feel the need to conspire against an organization
that thought Danny Jackson would ever be worth what they paid for him,
that thought Goose Gossage (well past his prime) would be an effective
replacement for Lee Smith, that though Dennis Eckersley was washed up as
a pitcher, or that honest-to-God thought that Mitch Williams could be one
of the top closers in the game year in and year out (OK, he has Lee Smith's
velocity, but he has Steve Trout's control.)  And that's not to mention
such infamous trades as the that sent Lou Brock to the Cardinals.  That
one belongs to history now.  Doubtless many readers with ties to Northwestern
U will remind me that, as a U of Illinois alum, this is not the year to
make such brash statements.  But conspiring against the Cubs is rather like
conspiring against Northwestern in football.  (Or, if you prefer, conspiring
to deprive the Denver Broncos and/or Minnesota Vikings of a Super Bowl
title.)  It can indeed be done, but the very deed smacks of a paranoia
that would make Richard Nixon feel proud.

Steven Kirby  kirby@athena.cs.uga.edu
From: krattige@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Kim Krattiger)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 19:56:41 GMT
Subject: Re: San Francisco/Tampa Bay lawsuit
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball

Everyone brings up the point of Tampa Bay selling such huge amounts of
season tickets, and yes, it is true.  However, I really wonder how many
they would still be selling 3 or 4 years after the team is in place.
Anytime a city gets a new team, it is big news, big deal and big money....
for a while.  And then it's same old stuff, especially if they don't win.

I am a Giant's fan and am myself disheartened by the lack of support for
the team.  I don't really understand it, other than there is such a 
diverse set of interest in the area, and baseball is only one of a 
thousand things to do, but then that's really no excuse, because any
other large city has the same situation.  I don't know why the Giant's
don't draw better, although I believe they have had lousy marketing

However, they are still my team and no matter how much people may believe
that Tampa Bay deserves???? them, I'm sure as h**l glad they didn't get them!
 
Kim
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: drraymon@watdragon.uwaterloo.ca (Darrell Raymond)
Subject: Re: Clemens Market Value (trade with Toronto)
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 14:20:17 GMT

In article <By5JJ6.7w8@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu>, mlstocku@zeno20.math.UWaterloo.ca () writes:
> *Why would you want to trade for Clemens when you can simply sign Cone?
> 
> I would have to completely agree with this. Why would anyone bring up the idea of
> trading Clemens for prospects and roster players if a team can just as well sign
> a as good free agent starter and pay him just as much money per year as Clemens?
> 
> The whole idea is _Totally_ lame.
> /Michael Stockus

  I agree the idea is totally lame.  However, if you believe in the idea
of trades made for their negative effect on another team, then maybe trading 
for Clemens achieves that.  As Fischer said:

>Which is the real point.  Clemens has value to the Red Sox beyond his
>actual performance on the field.  He is the heart and soul of the
>team, and surely the fans favorite player.
>
>Trading him would be a great loss no matter *what* they got in return.

  I think there's no doubt that Ted is right. On the other hand, I'm 
amused at how similar this comment is to the view that Jack Morris had
a beneficial effect on the Jays, and I wonder exactly which stats we 
would use to compare Clemens's "soulful" effect on the Sox to Morris's
"winner" effect on the Jays.  ;->

-Darrell.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: ataylor@agsm.ucla.edu (Al Taylor)
Subject: Re: Mitchell for Charlton and other trades.
Date: 20 Nov 92 10:22:35 PST

arrow@netcom.com (Les Arrow) writes:

>>Wait, I just re-read what you were saying.  And I'm not clear on exactly
>>what it meant.  Are you claiming they should make Greg Briley their
>>leadoff man?  Greg Briley, of the career .320 OBP?  Greg Briley, who put
>>up a .290 OBP last year?  Greg Briley?
>>

>Sure. Briley really hasn't been given a chance to play so I think it is
>unfair to use his .320 career OBP against him yet. Besides, their other
>choices are to go with wasting Edgar Martinez in the #1 spot or resigning 
>Harold Reynolds who doesn't have a much better career OBP and would stifle
>the play of Bret Boone. Of course, they could always go out and get someone,
>but I doubt that will happen.

Why not Cotto? I beleive that given a full time spot in the Outfield that
he would make an excellent lead off man. Good batting, great speed and
(I'm pretty sure on this) his slugging percentage was pretty close if not
better then Buhner (over rated)-not because he hits the ball out of the
park, but because he hits the ball more often.

Just a thought,


al			ataylor@agsm.ucla.edu

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: bernstei@next3.corp.mot.com(Andrew Bernstein)
Subject: Franklin baseball thingy....is it worth the $$$$?
Organization: MOTOROLA 
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 20:24:24 GMT


My wife is trying to figure out what to get me for my birthday........should I suggest  the  
Franklin?

I looked at it at the store....was kind of unimpressed by the appearance of it, but who cares  
what it looks like...it could keep me busy for years.....

If you have one: where did you get it......so I can take my wife with me...and accidentally spot  
it........manipulation can be such fun....I have seen it at Service Merchandise for $89.00....

Thanks for any replies.

Andrew

bernstei@next3.corp.mot.com
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: ataylor@agsm.ucla.edu (Al Taylor)
Subject: Re: Steve Howe
Date: 20 Nov 92 10:29:29 PST

dave@snitor.sni.ca (Dave Till) writes:

>In article <1992Nov19.103734.9761@netcom.com> arrow@netcom.com (Les Arrow) writes:
>>In article <92323.121833RVESTERM@vma.cc.nd.edu> RVESTERM@vma.cc.nd.edu writes:
>>>why should baseball care whether he's a drug addict or not? if convicted
>>>of some crime, drug related or not, he should serve whatever sentence
>>>the judge sees fit, and then become a free agent.
>>>
>>
>>Personally I care because it sends a bad message and sets a real bad precedent
>>every time he gets a new chance. I don't like what it says to our children.
>>I don't like the fact that the next problem case that comes around will have
>>to receive the same treatment. What does this say to Otis Nixon?

>I, on the other hand, think that Steve Howe should be allowed to pitch as long
>as he is not in prison.  If a player's (alleged) crime is not directly
>related to baseball, punishing the player implies that baseball is above
>the law.  Which it isn't.

Ahhh, but here is the problem. It does relate to baseball because MLB has 
a anti-drug policy (correct?). So the problems are, if they have this policy
should they inforce it? If not whats the point? And what does that tell
the fans who they are selling this policy too?

<stuff on parents and athletes deleted>

al		ataylor@agsm.ucla.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Re: Trade Clemens?
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 18:38:16 GMT

In article <Nov.21.08.19.03.1992.4912@pilot.njin.net> gajarsky@pilot.njin.net (Bob Gajarsky - Hobokenite) writes:
>how about *this* trade?  which couldn't happen because of logistics,
> but i think this would be something for the ages...
>
>clemens and greenwell to the yankees for hensley meulens, gerald williams,
> matt nokes, bob wickman, john habyan, domingo jean, and a minor prospect.

HORRORS!!!  Let us dissect this one...  First, I would say that Greenwell
and Nokes are of approximately equal value.  So the deal is Clemens for
Meulens, GWilliams, Wickman, Habyan, Domingo Jean, and a PTBNL.

Meulens ain't horrible, but his natural position is at DH.  And he has
yet to translate his minor league stats into major league production.
At this point, I wouldn't trade even *Cooper* for Meulens.  (Which one
has better major league stats?  Which one can field?)

Gerald Williams *is* horrible.  Even if the Red Sox had him for
*free*, I wouldn't give him a starting job.  He has *zero* OBP.
Perhaps I will adjust my evaluation of him *after* he draws his first
major league walk.  But we are still waiting on that one.

Wickman is okay.  Not sure how well that trick pitch will last in the
majors, but he should be a decent #4 starter for a while.  Habyan is
29 next year, and has a career ERA around 3.75.  The Yankees can keep
him, for all I care.

Domingo Jean is a decent prospect, but you are essentially proposing
Jean and Wickman for Clemens.  And that is a ridiculous deal.

>but if
> the bosox have delusions that bernie williams can play center....

Well, if you make that *BERNIE* Williams rather than *GERALD*
Williams, it would be a *little* better.  But I'll still keep Clemens,
thank you.  The team has a fair amount of YOUNG talent in the system
and on the field.  One or two *good* trades (like trading Viola,
Greenwell, Burks, Dopson, Hesketh, Harris, and the other spare parts),
and a couple BIG free agent signings could turn the Sox into a
contender for 1994.

-Valentine
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: dansmith@mcopn2.dseg.ti.com (Dan Smith)
Subject: Re: Keith Mitchell ???
Reply-To: dansmith@mcopn2.dseg.ti.com
Organization: Texas Instruments, Inc.
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 16:39:28 GMT

In article 75445@hydra.gatech.EDU, gt4925b@prism.gatech.EDU (Jason Woodward) writes:
>In <1992Nov18.213318.6239@cs.tulane.edu> eebonar@sn01.sncc.lsu.edu (Dave Bonar) writes:
>
>>In article <1992Nov18.192059.26358@mksol.dseg.ti.com>, dansmith@mcopn2.dseg.ti.com (Dan Smith) writes...
>>> 
>>>How could the expansion teams pass on Keith Mitchell. As an avid Braves fan,
>>>he looked great last year (.318 avg on pennant contender) and has good minor
>>>league credentials. He's young and he has shown he can hit ML pitching. 

>>	He would look great as a outfielder for an expansion team.  But
>>I never expect he'd end up on one.  I figure that the Brave's three protect
>>players (after the loss of Neid) were Pete Smith, Merker and Mitchell.  
>
>According to the Atlanta Constitution, the Braves protected Pete Smith,
>Kent Mercker, and Donnie Elliot after round 1.  After round 2, they
>protected Mark Lemke, Rafeal Belliard, and Charlie Liebrant.  These
>names seemed to come from Scheurholz himself, not just a rumor.
>
>The Marlins said that had Liebrandt been available, they would have 
>picked him.

If this is true, then the Expansion teams are really bone-heads for passing
on Caraballo and Mitchell.




Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: thornley@milli.cs.umn.edu (David H. Thornley)
Subject: Re: Kirby Puckett
Organization: University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, CSci dept.
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 04:01:07 GMT

In article <1992Nov23.224200.8822@cs.cornell.edu> tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer) writes:
>In article <By6upx.Awv@ns1.nodak.edu> graftaas@plains.NoDak.edu (Eric Graftaas) writes:
>>Let me just say that the real MVP of the American League is Kirby Puckett
>>of the Minnesota  Twins. Nobody can outplay him. He's probably the best
>>player in baseball.
>
>If you say so.  IMHO, he isn't even the best player on his team.
>[Shane Mack is better.]
>
>>I'm going out a limb and saying that Minnesota will be in the 1993 World
>>Series. Look at their probable line up.
>
>In your dreams!  First, is there any chance of Leius playing short?  I
>certainly haven't heard any rumors to that effect.  Second, if the
>Twins *do* sign Puckett, they aren't going to have much money left
>over.  Certainly not enough to sign Boggs and Smiley.  And if they do
>sign Boggs, I can assure you that they will be *very* disappointed.
>He simply doesn't have the range to play on turf.
>
According to the local papers, the plan is that, if Gagne is not re-signed,
the Twins will move Leius to SS and put some stiff in at 3rd.  They are
not going to resign Pagliarulo, in all probability, so Terry Jorgenson
will probably be the mediocre third baseman of the year.  The Twins have
said they are not going after Boggs, which strikes me as an excellent move.
Gagne has said he'd like to sign with the Red Sox, but it doesn't look
to me like the Sox really need a good but veteran shortstop at the moment,
and the Twins are probably his second choice.

If you want my guess, here it is.  The Twins fail to sign Puckett, do sign
Smiley, and may or may not sign Gagne.  Bush, Pags, and Chili are probably
out of here.  David McCarty will get a shot to make the club, and will do
so if he has a good Spring training.  He will be backup 1B, DH, and may
play outfield (the Twins were trying to move him there in the minors, I
don't know about his defense there).

Possible lineup:

Knoblauch, 2B
Bruett, CF
Mack, LF
Hrbek, 1B
Harper, C
McCarty, DH
Munoz, RF
Leius/Jorgenson, 3B
Gagne/Leius, SS

Rotation, of course:  Smiley, Tapani, Erickson, two of Mahomes, Trombley
   (whom I like because of what the name on the back of his jersey looks
    like at a slight angle), Banks (with apologies to Lance), or somebody
    else

David Thornley
Niccolo for MVP in '93!


Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu
Subject: Hot Stove Quotes
Organization: Clark University
Date: 20 NOV 92 03:42:00 GMT

Okay, all this draft stuff is boring me to tears, so I think we
should start a thread of Famous Baseball Quotes, so we can
persevere through the long winter nights.  "Quotes" can mean
full-length anecdotes as well.  The first one that comes to
mind (for whatever reason) is Casey Stengel's comment on the
New York Mets' 1969 streak, from August to October, that led
them to the World Championship:

    "They came slow, but fast."

I'll be back with another soon.

Heather
HHENDERSON@vax.clarku.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: nlu@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: JAYS Will Acquire Jim Abbott	
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 22:01:18 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.174538.10479@bmerh85.bnr.ca> news@bmerh85.bnr.ca (Usenet News) writes:
>
>According to Marty York, Sports Editor/Columnist for the
>Globe and Mail, the BLUE JAYS have agreed to terms with
>the ANGELS on a deal that will send Todd Stottlemyre, Randy
>Knorr and Domingo Martinez to California in return for
>Jim Abbott.  The deal will be announced in the next few
>days. If this is true, it explains why the JAYS left 
>highly touted prospects like Nigel Wilson (will likely
>go #2 in the draft today) and Juan de la Rosa unpropected in
>favor of Knorr and Martinez.  

If this is true, yuck.  Martinez is promissing, but I don't think much
of Knorr, and Stottlemyre is simply not going to help the Angels much.
Abbott, meanwhile, is a premier pitcher...  The Angels are going to
regret this one, if this is true...

===============================================================================
GO CALIFORNIA ANGELS!
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: maceache@fox.nstn.ns.ca (Tim Maceachern)
Subject: Re: Clemens Market Value (trade with Toronto)
Organization: NSTN Network Operations Centre, Nova Scotia, Canada
Distribution: na
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 16:25:40 GMT

fass@math.uwaterloo.ca (The FASS Theatre Company) writes:

>So as I see it the Jays *could* trade 

>Delgado, Bell, Duane Ward   for Clemens.

>This is arguably the best minor league prospect, a talented, though 
>unproven, outfielder and a premier closer.  Is this enough?  Too much?
>what would the Jays have to add? Take away?  Please be kind.  I'm new at
>this.|-)

>Lee.


Why would you want to trade for Clemens when you can simply sign Cone?
I won't argue as to whether Clemens or Cone would be the best present
value.  But I don't see why any team would be willing to trade for
Clemens.  (Flame retardent: note that I'm not saying that he is not a
great player.  I have great respect for Clemens.  Saw him shut out my
Jays 2-0 Fenwick opening day a few years ago.  Boring game, but great
pitchers give you a lot of boring games.)

Tim MacEachern