From: stxtnt@rs733.GSFC.NASA.Gov (Nigel Tzeng)
Subject: Re: Beef Sandwich - Re: Amiga now kicks PC butt - no way.
Organization: Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, Md, USA
	<1992Dec8.003931.2099@global.hacktic.nl> <Bz0x53.FBL@NeoSoft.com>
	<1992Dec12.163847.399@global.hacktic.nl>
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 17:59:16 GMT

In article <1992Dec12.163847.399@global.hacktic.nl> peter@global.hacktic.nl (Peter Busser) writes:

[lot of stuff deleted]

>>and that blows the power cost out of
>>the water.

>The same for the Amiga. But the difference is that you can't plug your A500
>peripherals in your A3000 and that you need to buy a completely new system.

This is bull...my A2000 currently runs peripsh that I had bought for
my A500.  I suspect that is I bought a A4000 I'd move all of my
current A2000 boards over to the new machine...but I doubt I'll ever
buy one.  I simply slap a '040 card into my geriatric A2000 (circa
1989-90) and can run with the latest and greatest.

>>Yep, you can replace the 1M SIMMS with 4M simms, and then replace
>>the motherboard when it's filled up, and replace the disks, and do it again
>>in two or three years because NT++ needs it.

>Nope. I do not run NT or NT++. The memory that is replaced in one computer
>can be plugged into the second computer.

Then you probably aren't too bright...adding old slow memory to a new
fast machine is like putting 1950 vintage rubber on a 1990 sports car.
It works but it sure hurts performance...

Which is why when my roomate upgraded from his old 386/16 (top of the
line when he bought it) to a 486 he left his VGA card, HD controller
and memory on the old machine.  The performance liability of the old
drive controller and slooow VGA made a faster CPU pointless.  Fact is
you gain a lot more productivity in the PC world with a fast disk,
fast VGA and lots of memory than pushing the CPU.


>>I didn't get an XT, or an AT, or any other computer that had a short lifetime.

>That is easy talking for someone with a $$$$$ salary. However, if your budget
>is small, then there isn't much choice. Anyway, there are still enough people
>who would like to have a cheap XT or AT and who don't need a 386 to run UNIX.

XTs work only if you use old applications or have a lot of patience...

>>Everything I use has years of productive life ahead of it, because I
>>looked at the resource requirements of the system when I got it, and
>>what I'd expect them to grow to to keep up with the software I needed
>>to run.

>For me too, the XT I bought 6 years ago still has a productive life
>ahead as it is still used regularly. But I wonder what that has to do
>with Amigas being "green" (=sick) computers?

Nothing...my AT vintage A2000 is still competative with 386/486 boxes
in terms of usability...more as I get to run mac applications ;-).
Sometime soon I'll pop a few more megs and run SYS7 on the little
bugger...

>>> Being just as productive?
>>Sure. The machine waits on me... I don't have to wait on it, so my bandwidth
>>isn't being wiped out by a lossy OS.

>Which lossy OS do you mean? Linux?

Windows...which isn't really an OS but DOS if it comes down to it.

>>> With a headache from the flickering screen?
>>What flickering screen? I don't use interlace... I don't need interlace.

>50Hz display refresh rate is painful, and I didn't even mention interlace.
>Go figure.

Ummm...what 50Hz refresh?  I run full interlace with the de-interlacer
for a nice large screen...yes on my virtually stock geriatric Amiga.

>>> Frustration from a rotten keyboard?
>>Gee, it's exactly the same as the keyboard on my 386.

>Ah, another Commodore PC 60-40 owner. Well, I've seen A500 keyboards with
>stickers on it.

Yeah...so I've seen PCJrs with chicklet keys...what the point?

>>A used 386, by the way. No new resources went into it, and I'm keeping it
>>out of the waste stream.

>And your Amiga is also second hand I suppose?

All of my Amigas are used...

[stuff deleted]

>>>>That's not to mention the sort of nasty toxics you generate from Fab lines.
>>> Ah great so Amigas are made from cow dung so that you can use them as
>>> fertilizer if you don't want them (who would anyway).
>>No, but you don't have to buy so many of them to keep up. That's what clean
>>and efficient design buys you.

>Ah, not so many but you still bought several of them, didn't you?

Not I.  I have a spare A1000 to play head to head games with.  My A500
went to a cousin for a first computer.  My A2000 is nice in that for
the foreseeable future I can run any Amiga application at the same
speed (or near enough) as any top of the line Amiga if I'm willing to
drop in the latest Motorolla processor offering...and we aren't
talking motherboard swapping but the same mb, bus, disks etc...

Hell...I can even run as fast as a Quadra for non-color applications
(limited by the fact my mac roms are the 128K old mac roms without
color quickdraw) for a few hundred dollars for a pocket 040 board.

>>> The fact that you
>>> need to buy a complete new computer as an upgrade path.
>>You do? I'm not planning on doing any upgrading for another 6 years.

>Sure. But not likely a new computer or new motherboard.

>>> The last upgrade
>>> I made only involved a change of the motherboard. I didn't have to throw away
>>> the other parts.
>>But how often do you have to do it?

>Have to? Never! You can still run MS-DOS and many applications (even some of
>the latest ones) on 4.77MHz XTs, no problem. I upgraded recently because I
>need two 386 computers and I only had one. That was for me the time to replace
>the 286@8MHz motherboard I once rescued from the waste with a 386 motherboard.
>If it was a stone-age Amiga, I would have had to buy a complete new system thus
>wasting 1 complete computersystem. Now it's only a motherboard.

You are full of it.  One: I use PCs all the time...and if you think
that ANY of the applications I have running on my machine will even
twitch on a 8808 4.77Mhz XT you're smoking something that Clinton
didn't inhale.  Two: My geriatric A2000 can run with the best with the
addition of a processor card...not a motherboard swap.

Nigel

--
Nigel Tzeng
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