HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: amm@NeXT.COM (Alan M. Marcum)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.owning
Subject: Re: Aerospatiale Aircraft
Date: 5 Nov 92 17:47:40 GMT
Reply-To: amm@NeXT.COM (Alan M. Marcum)

Jeffrey Dunkle writes
> Relative to Joe's question about Aerospatiale aircraft he's
> considering...
> The opinions on the plane are mixed to good.  Also, one of
> the earlier issues of ABC's Wide World of Flying featured Bill Cox
> flying several of these planes...general hanger talk is that,
> while very attractively designed both inside and out...the speeds,
> GW numbers, and such are not too impressive.

I've flown a Trinidad a bit.  My back-seat passengers thought it
was the most comfortable single they'd ever been in.  They've flown
with me in everything from 182RGs to a 206 and various flavors of
210, Mooneys, and, I think, a Bonanza.

It's been a while since I've flown the Trinidad.  I recall gear
and flap speeds to be a bit low.  Speed is about like that of a
Mooney [e.g., ~160KTAS for normally-aspirated], but the Trinidad
has a bigger engine (250hp for the TB-20 vs. 200hp for the 201).
So, it'll burn more gas going the same speed.

It took me a bit to get used to the feel and position of the
yoke.  And, everyone has to develop his or her own methods
for working with the gull-wing doors to ensure 1) they aren't
damaged in wind while open, and 2) you aren't cooked during
taxi.
--
Alan M. Marcum
NeXT Tech Support
amm@NeXT.COM
From: bart@asiago.cs.wisc.edu (Bart Miller)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.owning
Subject: Handheld GPS receivers
Date: 5 Nov 92 16:20:44 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.1992Nov5.162044.28696
Organization: University of Wisconsin, Madison -- Computer Sciences Dept.

Can anyone give a survey of the available handheld GPS receivers (features,
performance, price)?

I've seen mention of several brands and several models within a brand (e.g.,
Garvin).  Thanks!
						--bart miller
						  uw-madison cs dept
						  bart@cs.wisc.edu
						  N738CU TR182
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.owning
From: dblack@ccla.demon.co.uk (David Black)
Subject: Re: Handheld GPS receivers
Organization: Crucible Computers Ltd.
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 23:25:47 +0000


> I think the first major surge of purchase of handheld GPS receivers will
> be when they have a large graphics LCD panel on the one (entire) face of
> the unit, with buttons to the side.  It should display graphics in realtime,
> like the Lap-Map setup with the HP95X, and cost below $1000.  Who can
> say no to that.  I bet even ATP pilots may just carry those in their
> bags just in case.
> 
> If nobody is working on it, then somebody with some money might wanna... 
> (I bet you will be selling them to aviators like they sell radios to
> the average Joe's back in those good ol' days) 
> 

With NMEA output it should be quite easy to build such a device. A
company here has developed a small $150 add-on which takes the
lat/lon and translates it into meaninful english so you get stuff
like 5 miles SSE San Fransisco etc. The add-on can tap the existing
market and make use of the installed Loran user base.

With the falling price (and size)of notebooks and sub-notebooks the
developments in software would be a logical progression. For an
example take alook at Mentor's products, their moving Jeppesen based
map is quite impressive, I've used it a number of times with my
Garmin 100AVD on a notebook in flight.

We have toyed with the idea of developing an enclosed LCD map add-on,
but its still a pipe dream since the commercial boys are bound to
come out with something superior at half the cost !

/Dave Black



=
David Black             49 Woodgrange Drive     dblack@ccla.demon.co.uk
Crucible Computers      Southend On Sea         dblack@cix.compulink.co.uk    
Networking Consultant   Essex UK SS1 2SD        Flies AA5B G-NGBI
From: rh@craycos.com (Robert Herndon)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.owning
Subject: Re: Getting my feet wet (first plane suggest
Date: 12 Nov 92 09:26:44 GMT
Organization: Cray Computer Corporation

Frank Stutz(utz)man, C-172A N7770T owner, writes:

> Hey, can some Cessnoids help me out here?  I'm being beseiged
> by the Piper contingent!   Mr. Hernandon, where are you when I
> need you?  ;-)

  I'm out here mostly lurking.  Hey, I wouldn't claim that my
1960 Cessna 172A (N7511T) could outrace anything faster than
a J-3 cub.  Between the long-legged landing gear, the C-145
Continental (145 HP), the venturis hanging off the sides, and
the climb prop (needed up here around the Rockies), N7511T
isn't going to outrace much.

  Then again, I learned in a Piper Traumahawk... *I think*
7511T could outrun it... and it can certainly out-carry it
and out-climb it.  And I wouldn't be very happy about taking
a PA-38/112 into the mountains.

-r
-- 
Robert Herndon		    --	not speaking officially for Cray Computer.
rh@craycos.com			   --|--		719/540-4240
AOPA, EAA, & SSA member		-----o-----		C-172A N7511T
PP-ASEL,I 			    " "			Glider student
From: tks@kestrel.nwc.navy.mil (Tom Serkowski)
Subject: Moving to Ohio
Organization: NAWS, China Lake, CA
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 17:55:37 GMT


Hi,

I'm moving to Ohio from California and am wondering what the registration
and tax situation is in Ohio.

In Ca. I pay no registration fees, but do pay an annual 'luxury tax' to
whatever county the plane is based in.  Right now it's a little over 1%
of what they think the plane's worth.

Thanks,
	Tom
From: tel@cbnews.cb.att.com (thomas.e.lester)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.owning
Subject: Re: Moving to Ohio
Date: 10 Nov 92 15:15:20 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <BxGn4q.DLM@avalon.nwc.navy.mil> tks@kestrel.nwc.navy.mil (Tom Serkowski) writes:
>
>Hi,
>
>I'm moving to Ohio from California and am wondering what the registration
>and tax situation is in Ohio.
>
>In Ca. I pay no registration fees, but do pay an annual 'luxury tax' to
>whatever county the plane is based in.  Right now it's a little over 1%
>of what they think the plane's worth.
>
>Thanks,
>	Tom

	You will have to register with the state.  The fee is impressive!

	$3.00 per seat per year.  But you do get an Ohio airport facilities
	directory with your registration.  So that helps take some of the
	sting out of the fee.  Last year they also gave a vfr chart covering
	the entire state of Ohio.  Not legal for navigation, but nice
	for Columbus that is right on the edge of Detroit and Cincinnati
	sectionals.

    Also, if you sold a house in California,  please be prepared to have 
    a hard time finding a house that is expensive enough to soak up all 
    of your selling price to avoid capital gains tax.

    Welcome to the conservative midwest!  If in Columbus, get in touch!


-- 
	-----------------------------------------------------------------
	Tom Lester				att!cblph!tel
	Sonerai IIL (under TEST)		(614) 860-3259
	N4LX 					(614) 927-8106
From: dunn@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Steve Dunn)
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 00:47:43 GMT
Subject: Re: Re: Cherokee: actual vs. POH
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.owning

/ hpcc01:rec.aviation.owning / david@infopro.com (Dragon [David Fiedler]) /  7:31 pm  Oct 12, 1992 /
psv2b@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Peter S. Vines) writes:

>A group of pilots I regularly fly with are considering purchasing
>a Cherokee 180 (mid 70's).  I would like information from other 180
>pilots concerning the operating costs.  What is the fuel burn, are parts
>hard to find, are there particular years or models which should be 
>avoided?

----------
I'm in a group of 4 in a PA28-180 (s/n=881 circa 1963).  Our credit union
didn't have a problem with the age.  Some insurance companies have implied
that more than 4 members is a flying club (i.e. your rates are higher).  Four
seems to work for us without scheduling hastles.

We recently had a *FUN* time finding a replacement nose strut.  Can't say
when it was bent but we finally got tired of it sticking and one day it
wouldn't hold any gas at all (leaving about 3 inches of clearance between
the asphalt and the prop tip).  Piper says they can supply new struts;  price
is just under $700; lead-time is *29 weeks*!!! and, at the time, there were
31 back orders in front of us.  The 3rd used strut we received was finally
usable, but it cost more than a new one from Piper would have cost.

There are a number of cosmetic items missing on "94W" but we have always
been able to find the required stuff.  On the other hand, our down-time has
been extensive.  

I'm not sure our experience is universal.  Someone took very little
interest in this plane for a long time and just ran it into the ground.
Pre-purchase inspections and a number of "annuals" didn't really tell the
whole storey.

Bottom line on cost: you fly because you love it (credits to others who've
said this first).  It isn't likely to be an economical way to travel.  But
sharing the cost 4 ways makes it manageable and gives you 3 others to 
share in the misery.

Good luck.
From: randy@rls.UUCP (randall l. smith)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Handheld scanners (not in faq)
Date: 4 Nov 92 20:34:50 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: The Internet


I'm interested in purchasing a handheld aviation scanner and don't have
alot of $$$ to burn while at the same time, don't want some el-cheapo
unit that will break or require upgrading as my requirements increase.
Yes, I want it all and I don't/can't pay for it.  So sue me. :-)

My needs right now are to acclimate to the radio chatter heard on the
air.  I'm a beginner and want to be completely conversant in radio lingo
before the first solo.  Right now, I can't keep up and don't retain what
is heard because the communication shorthand sounds like Latin.  Obscure
and requires translation before I realize what was said.  Often the whole
discourse is blurred before they get too far past my call numbers.  :-(

The goal is never to be part of those discouraging low-time statistics. 

I liked Radio Shack's 100 channel rechargeable unit but they want $350
even though I don't like Radio Shack's gear.  Any other suggestions?

e-mail please.

- randy

uucp: randy@rls.uucp
bang: <backbone>!osu-cis!rls!randy
inet: rls!randy@cis.ohio-state.edu
The bold print giveth and the fine print taketh away.

(P.S.  A new Sporty's catalogue is on it's way.)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation,rec.aviation.misc
From: mjoseph@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Mark Joseph)
Subject: Re: temp/dewpoint
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Distribution: rec
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 20:21:43 GMT

In article <1992Nov05.210645.11638@microsoft.com> peted@microsoft.com (Peter Duniho) writes:
>In article <1992Nov3.233503.21180@bradley.bradley.edu> maverick@buhub.bradley.edu (Darin Petersen) writes:
>>We all know (or at least should) that the relative humidity is a function
>>of temperature and dewpoint.  After looking at the current temp/dewpoint I
>>don't understand how the humidity is derived.  
>
>
>....
>...discussion of dew point and relative humidity
>...
>(*)  By the way, this thing ("sphigmometer" is as close as I can
>get to spelling it right, I think) that I describe might just be
>the low-tech way to measure absolute humidity/dewpoint.  Does
>anyone know of a neater, high-tech device to do the same thing?

If you're trying to say "sphygmomanometer", then nope - that's the
device used to measure blood pressure.  Dew point and relative
humidity are derived from the "wet-bulb" temperature which is
obtained from a "sling-psychrometer".


-- 
Mark Joseph             University of Illinois / Speech & Hearing Science
Technical Support Mgr.  901 S. Sixth St., Champaign, IL 61820
m-joseph@uiuc.edu       (217)244-2569   FAX:(217)244-2235
Newsgroups: rec.aviation,rec.aviation.misc
From: sloubtin@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Sylvain Louboutin)
Subject: Re: Public perception of general aviation
Organization: DSG, Dept. of Computer Science, Trinity College Dublin
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 15:56:02 GMT

In <MERLYN.92Nov6173536@romulus.reed.edu> merlyn@ora.com (Randal L. Schwartz) writes:

>In article <1992Nov4.172724.17063@odin.corp.sgi.com> amazon@annexia.esd.sgi.com (Stormwind) writes:
>   earlier in the morning he was heard to 
>   comment that general aviation pilots
>   were bad because "they're the same kind
>   of bozos who drive cars", [...]
>Certainly not true.  A pilot friend of mine got her pilot ticket long
>before she *ever* learned how to drive.  In fact, she was almost
>complete with her instrument rating before finally passing the driving
>test.  She said the hardest thing about driving was trying to stay to
>the right of that centerline, and resisting the urge to pull up over
>the cars ahead of her rather than slowing down... :-)


we are all convinced.  That was not the point of the original posting
as I understood it.  The point was:  "what can we do?"

e.g. I am member of an organization which aims to improve
transportation in a more ecological way i.e. by promoting public
transportation etc. (Swiss association named ATE standing for
Association Transports  et Environnement).  I support their view on
most subjects,  but cannot help being hurt when I see some typically
prejudiced and un-informed views related to GA which are often held by
well meaning ``ecolo''.  

One suggestion would be to compile enough irrefutable information
(statistics, with comparison with other ``common sense'' facts (have
you noticed for instance that those who say that small planes are noisy
tolerate without any problem the much noisier neighbour's lawn mowers?)
etc.) about costs/impact on environment/benefit for the society etc.
which could be used when argumenting.  The worst way to defend a cause
is to go ahead unprepared and without such information...

-- 
//Sylvain R.Y. Louboutin, fax: (+353-1)772204, e-mail: Louboutin@dsg.cs.tcd.ie
//Distributed System Group, O'Reilly Institute, room F.35, (+353-1)7021539 ...
//Department of Computer Science, Trinity College, Dublin 2, -Ireland-  ASK-18
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: ggr@nareen.acci.com.au (Greg Rose)
Subject: Re: "We're in the pipe, five by five"
Organization: Australian Computing and Communications Institute
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 23:44:14 GMT

In article <39520@arctic.nprdc.navy.mil> malloy@morgana.navy.mil (Sean Malloy) writes:
[previous text regarding "five by five" deleted]
>Brent is correct; the terms refer to signal strength and signal clarity,
>respectively, on a 1-to-5 scale. 'Five by Five' is the equivalent of 'loud and
>clear'; 'Five by One' was a strong, essentially unintelligible signal', and
>'One by Five' was a clear signal too weak to make out. As I recall, this usage
>was from the early days of radio communications, and essentially dropped from 
>civilian usage by WWII, but remained part of military usage until, I believe,
>the Korean War.

It is still in the Australian AIP [Aeronautical Information
Publication], making it standard radio practice here.

--
Greg Rose                 Australian Computing and Communications Institute
ggr@acci.com.au                                              +61 18 174 842
`Use of the standard phrase "HIJACKED" may be inadvisable' -- CAA
Newsgroups: rec.aviation,rec.aviation.misc
From: hchong@netcom.com (Hoi Chong)
Subject: Re: Public perception of general aviation
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 15:43:52 GMT

From article <JKF.92Nov4183643@frisky.Franz.COM>, by jkf@Franz.COM (Sean Foderaro):
>  I think that the most effective way to popularize GA would be to have
> characters in a popular television show make use of GA. (i.e. Bring back 
> Sky King.)  It would be hard for television to provide an accurate picture
> of GA but if it could, then this would be the easiest way to educate 
> millions and millions of people.

Yeah, let's all chuck in and make a series about Mr A (the superhero who use
his PP-ASEL to rescue those ungrateful non-pilot GA-haters from all kinds
of situations).  

I have many stories in mind, but they are probably not PC, so damn my
1st Admendment Rights, I will just have to keep them to myself. 

p.s. Just to guage the PC level in this group, how many people would be 
     offended if I use the term Mr Hug-A-Tree?  Yes, all should
     email, including those YES, NO, and ABSTAIN.  I wanna to ask for NO-FLAME,
     but I guess your have 1st Admendment Rights too and I will just have to
     take the heat.  I will post results.  (yes, my mbox has been kind of 
     empty lately) 
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: pal@regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.dbp.de (Peter Loibl)
Subject: Re: 3 letter codes
Organization: Technical University of Munich, Germany
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 16:19:24 GMT

eap@everest.Stanford.EDU (Eric Perozziello) writes:

>Does anybody have a list of the 3 letter airport codes?

>Specifically, I'd like to know where STC is....

Hi!

This should be in the FAQ of the newsgroup rec.travel.air

There are 2 lists for 3-letter codes: one for North America and one
for the rest of the world. If anybody has additions, please tell the
authors (or is there any ftp-site, from where the official IATA codes
can be ftp'ed?).

Peter Loibl
pal@regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: david@infopro.com (David Fiedler)
Subject: AirLifeLine Needs Pilots (please read; regular posting)
Organization: "InfoPro Systems: Writers, Consultants, and Dragons"
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 00:30:06 GMT

                      ATTENTION PRIVATE PILOTS

               Do *You* Want to Make a Difference???
                 A difference in someone's life?  

That is what AirLifeLine is all about.  

We are a non-profit charitable organization of almost 600 private pilots 
nationwide who donate their time, skills, fuel and aircraft to fly 
medical missions. AirLifeLine pilots have flown over 5,000 missions 
since we began in late 1979, logging over 2,000,000 air miles in service 
to humanity. Our missions include the time-critical transport of medical 
cargo such as whole blood, blood platelets, heart pacemakers, eye 
corneas, human organs for transplantation, and mother's milk -- the only 
source of nutrition that some children's digestive systems can tolerate. 

In addition to the cargo missions, the vast majority of AirLifeLine 
flights involve medical travel for ambulatory patients (no stretcher 
cases) needing treatment or diagnosis at a hospital a distance from 
home. These patients, both adults and children, are able to walk and 
must have their stable physical condition verified, in writing, by their 
doctor. The normal one-way distance for a mission is 500 miles or less. 
All AirLifeLine missions are referred by or screened through a medical 
agency. 

All expenses incurred for flying medical missions are used as itemized 
charitable tax deductions by our pilots. Each year, missions are 
verified by our national office and the pilots determine their 
individual flying costs. 

There is a CRITICAL need for private pilots in your state. The national 
office is receiving frequent calls from medical agencies, on behalf of 
local families who have been devastated by a serious illness or injury. 
Won't you please utilize your skills and love of flying to make a 
positive difference in someone's life? 

If you own or have access to an aircraft, have flown a minimum of 200 
hours as PIC and would like to help, please call or write the National 
AirLifeLine office for a pilot information packet. The benefits general 
aviation pilots give to mankind, through AirLifeLine, are impressive. 
Through the end of October 1991, 640 missions were flown so far this 
year logging 241,199 miles in humanitarian service. Contact AirLifeLine 
and become a part of our team. 

AirLifeLine, 1716 X Street, Sacramento, CA 95818, phone 916-446-0995
-- 
David Fiedler UUCP:infopro!david Internet:david@infopro.com or david@utoday.com 
USMail:InfoPro Systems, PO Box 220 Rescue CA 95672 Phone:916/677-5870 FAX:-5873
"Do I still have to sleep in the cupboard?"
From: VPN1@psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: ercoupe aerobatics
Date: 11 Nov 92 00:22:52 GMT
Organization: Penn State University

It's been 20 years since I've flown an ercoupe, but let me stick my neck
out.  (This is for discussion purposes; it is not intended as instruction in
aerobatics.)

Rudder *is* needed to do a proper loop.  As the nose comes up and airspeed
falls off, right rudder is needed, just as in any other climb, to keep the
ball centered (or, since most Ercoupes have no ball, to keep the airplane in
coordinated flight.) Similarly, left rudder is needed during the second half
of the loop.

A barrel roll is a climbing turn that is continued "all the way around." The
ball stays in the center the whole time, if the roll is done right.  Thus,
except for the "trim" needed as mentioned in the loop, an Ercoupe should do
a perfect barrel roll.

A slow roll requires rudder opposite to aileron during part of the roll, so
that would be impossible in an Ercoupe.  An "aileron roll" of sloppy
character might be possible.

A different question is whether there is enough elevator authority to pull
an Ercoupe through a loop without diving to Vne + 50 to get enough airspeed
to go over the top of a very large loop, and then coming out at Vne + 50 or
more.  I suspect the wings would fold.
                                        vince norris, penn state u.
Newsgroups: rec.aviation,rec.aviation.misc
From: kendall@sceng.ub.com (Greg Kendall)
Subject: Re: Public perception of general aviation
Organization: Ungermann Bass
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 18:07:56 GMT

In article <greg.720901459@saltydog> greg@saltydog.dpsi.com (Gregory R. Travis) writes:

>[Description of "GA ignorant" type railing about small planes/bozo
>pilots/rich people/etc.]

>I hope not to offend but...is this just a California thing, or what?  I've
>never been in a situation where a non-pilot trashed GA and I've had to
>defend it.

>Quite the opposite, actually.  Every time I've struck up a conversation with
>someone about flying they've always been enthusiastic to hear about it.
>Most of them are dying to go flying (sorry) with me, or anyone else, and when
>they do the grin doesn't disappear for weeks.

>Perhaps it's the Midwest, where I think a lot more of your basic
>"good-old-boys" go flying (and where it's a lot more afforable than,
>say, $an Jo$e (hee hee)).  Hell, everyone goes flying around here.


Don't count on it.  I grew up in Indiana, lived in Bloomington for the last
5 years.  I heard plenty of dumping on GA, right there in the heartland.
From: gopal@cirrus.com (Gopal Ramachandran)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Helicopter icing
Keywords: helicopter,ifr,icing
Date: 11 Nov 92 02:59:04 GMT
Organization: Cirrus Logic Inc.

In article <pdb1.721416200@Isis.MsState.Edu> pdb1@ra.msstate.edu (Philip D Bridges) writes:
>
.....
>3. IFR helicopters are generally flown by professional pilots and   
>   usually have 2 pilots in the cockpit....
....

A very informative response by Philip. I've had only a few lessons in
helicopters, though I have a fair amount of fixed-wing time. I noticed
that in the simple, training helicopters I was flying, it was not
possible for me to free up my hands (or feet) for any length of time.
My instructor told me this was why helos needed two pilots in IFR
operations. One pilot was on the controls full time, and the other
copied clearances, tuned radios, etc
	However, I believe that turbine helos have stability
augmentation to some degree. Presumably, one could let go of the
cyclic without the helo getting away from you while you were retuning
a radio. I wonder if they can let go of the collective/throttle
twist-grip as well due to a friction device as well, in order to free
up the other hand as well? Or are there other good reasons
(certification?) to not allow single-pilot IFR in such machines?

Gopal
-- 

Gopal Ramachandran <gopal@cirrus.com>
UUCP:  uunet!cirrus.com!gopal
Cirrus Logic Inc, Fremont CA  PH: (510)-226-2138 FAX: (510)-226-2160