HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jdeitch@umiami.ir.miami.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Re: Pointage
Date: 8 Apr 92 17:34:55 EDT
Organization: Univ of Miami IR

jpwetmil@descartes.uwaterloo.ca (john!wetmiller) writes: 

> The other part of this is that if pinball "scoring" structures were to change
> so that the purpose is to achieve preset objectives and the concept of 'points'
> were thrown out the window, then the pinball machine would become not much more
> than a mechanical video game.  This puzzles me as to what makes pinball games
> different from video games, other than the cosmetic difference.  Is all this
> out-of-control scoring inflation the main concept that gives pinball its
> uniqueness?  I sure hope not.  Scoring inflation in my view is something to be
> put in the undesirable side of pinball experience.  Oh well, now I'm
> depressed...

Try playing Hurricane a few times.  There's a game where skill most definitely
rewards you with points.  Our high score is less than the factory high score
of 60 mil and we've had the machine for almost two months.

If you don't have any skill on this machine, you don't get points.

- Jonathan
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internet : jdeitch@umiami.miami.edu | Go Braves !! | "I hate it when I can't
---------------------------------------------------| trust my own technology !" 
"Thrills!  Chills!  Magic!  Prizes!"  -- Hurricane |    -- Geordi LaForge

Gene Roddenberry, Isaac Asimov, Jim Henson, Dr Seuss, Mel Blanc ... Sigh ... 
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: dpettit@javelin.sim.es.com (Daina Pettit)
Subject: Re: Annoying problem on EM machine
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corporation
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 23:35:05 GMT

In article <ku3o1oINNgsd@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> bradam@fourbits.Eng.Sun.COM (Brad Martinson) writes:
>I have a niggling little problem with my Gottlieb "Jacks Open" EM machine
>that I haven't been able to solve, so I'm turning to the experts.  Jacks
>has five lights in the center playfield that show what what hand to shoot
>for (card game theme), and they have become intermittant.  The light is
>always on at the start of a ball, but often turn off as soon as one of 
>the bumpers is hit.  Sometimes it will re-light, sometimes not. Sometimes
>hitting a kicker will darken the lamp; sometimes not. I've replaced all the 
>bulbs, cleaned the contacts and tightend the sockets.
>
>Now what?

Since I haven't seen a response on this yet I'll make a stab at it. 

I haven't played this game so I'll make some guesses as to how the lights
are activated.  The most likely method is a stepping unit.  The stepping
unit on late EM Gottliebs are rather small and often reside under the
playfield right next to regular relays and may be mounted on the same
bracket.  The stepping unit is a relay and some tooth and gear
arrangement with a pc-board on both sides of the gear.  A tiny wiper arm
moves across the pc-board as the gear rotates.  Usually the wiper contacts
and the pc-board contacts need cleaning.  Sometimes the wiper arm doesn't
press against the pc-board well and needs to be adjusted.  If this doesn't
solve the problem try checking the solder connections everywhere on the
unit.

This mini stepping unit is a much better design than Williams' version of
the same period.  Gottlieb's usually just needs some cleaning and minor
adjustment.  Williams' needs new parts. :^(

If it doesn't use a stepping unit for these lights then it's probably some
relays.  Then it boils down to clean, adjust gap, check connections, go to
the next relay and do it again.

BTW some bad solder connections look and feel good upon inspection but are
bad.  The way to tell is to check with a multi-meter and/or resolder.  This
is problem is not very likely but does happen.  I only resolder as a last
resort.  

Good Luck.

Daina

-- 
  Daina Pettit  (801) 582-5847  dpettit@javelin.sim.es.com   
  Evans & Sutherland  600 Komas Drive, SLC, UT  84108
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: joee@cabezon.uucp (Joe Eckardt)
Subject: Looking for boneyard and/or "Black Hole" to part out
Organization: Logic Modeling Inc of Beaverton Oregon
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 92 00:28:08 GMT

I tried this request a few weeks ago and got absolutely no response
so I thought I'd try one last time before giving up...

I've got a Gotleib "Black Hole" I'm working on.  It's now functional
but virtually every plastic on the upper playfield is either broken
or missing.  I've had absolutely no luck finding a replacement set.

I've got two questions:

1) Does anyone know of any "boneyards" that have old machines that
are parted out.  I KNOW they're out there somewhere.  I remember at
least one (I think in Arizona) being mentioned on the net at one
time, but didn't save the address.

2) Does anyone personally have or know of a Black Hole being parted
out that I could buy the plastic overlays from?

		Joe Eckardt
		Logic Modeling Corporation 

            Please use one of these return addresses instead of 
            the one on the return address line:

		lauto!joee@gateway.sequent.com or,
		lauto!joee@cse.ogi.edu         or,  (very slow)
		...!uunet!sequent!lauto!joee
-- 
		Joe Eckardt
		Logic Modeling Corporation 

            Please use one of these return addresses instead of
From: ottoh3@CFSMO.Honeywell.COM (Otto Heuer #3)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Cyclone
Date: 7 Apr 92 18:38:10 GMT
Article-I.D.: tyrell.9204071838.AA07506
Organization: Hack-Man's Hangout
To: rec.games.pinball
Posted-Date: Tue, 7 Apr 92 13: 38:10 CDT
Mailer: Elm [revision: 64.9]
X-Disclaimer: I speak for me and not my boss; Honeywell's gain & Usenet's loss
X-Car: (612) 865-4301
X-Voice-Mail: (612) 785-4600 x8528
X-Internet: ottoh3@cfsmo.honeywell.com
X-2nd-Choice: hackman@pnet51.orb.mn.org
Received-Date: Tue, 7 Apr 92 13: 36:43 CDT
X-Phone: (612) 785-4343


Sigh...  I just broke my own personal record for "games on  a single token"
on Cyclone.    I played  22 games  (had to  "try" to  lose the  last two on
purpose" cuz I was late getting back to work).  The strange thing is--not a
single match in the entire lot!   I  was starting  to wonder  if it matches
based on how long it's been since a token was dropped in.  :-)

Got the local high score (not all that impressive--it was under 6,000,000).

Well, enough patting myself on the back...  when I left, the guy next to me
had racked  up  280,000,000  thus  far on  his first  ball of  T2 (and this
machine generally has a replay between 16,000,000 and 30,000,000).

                --Otto "HACK-MAN" Heuer
--
C, Pascal, Fortran, BASIC, Assembly Language, Snobol, Ada, APL, Prolog, LISP
Unix, MS-DOS, ProDOS       .  .   .   .... .  .   .   .   .   .   . Audio/Video
ottoh@cfsmo.honeywell.com  :..: .:.:. :    :.' .. :`.': .:.:. :`. :   Star Trek
hackman@pnet51.orb.mn.org  :  : :   : :... : `.   :   : :   : :  `:  Apple IIgs
From: v051r9bf@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (When will Mergle EVER shut up?)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Re: Big Bang on Party Zone
Date: 14 Apr 92 20:29:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In the last article, I wrote: 
>I asked whether or not the Big Bang in Party Zone was just too
>damn easy to obtain, considering the same sequence of ramp shots
>gets you 750,000 on Bride of Pinbot's Metamorphosis Stage.  I got
>39 million points on Party Zone for the shots that were more difficult
>than BoPinbot's.

That should be ON, not than.  Bride of Pinbot's was tougher-->  (The flipper
passing technique almost never works on BoP, in my experience, whereby it has
on Party Zone due to its more parallel flippers. (bally!) )


.........................................................................

--Mergle                                William L. Priester Jr.
                                        V051R9BF@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu

You try and pass balls from one flipper to the other when
they stand almost vertical when ya hold the button in!  :^)

...........................................................................
From: andrem@pyrman2.pyramid.com (Andre Molyneux)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Finally found TAF
Date: 9 Apr 92 18:33:31 GMT

First, for those of you in the San Jose area:

Well, on the advice of another netter, I finally found TAF and in the process
apparently found the current pinball Mecca for Silicon Valley.  It was a bit
of a drive, but the Keystone at the Almaden Plaza had TAF, Getaway (High
Speed II), BK2000, Terminator 2, Class of 1812, Surf 'N Safari, Star Trek,
Hurricane, Earthshaker, and one or two more I can't remember.  The replay
score on TAF was at 80 million when I got there, and I managed to push it
up to the mid-90's.  All in all, well worth the half-an-hour it took me to
drive there.  Be warned though, the volume on "Getaway" is CRANKED.  I had
to step out of the arcade occaisionally to give my ears a break.  (If anyone
finds TAF or Getaway closer to Sunnyvale, please let me know.)

I found one advantage to the TAF that no one else has mentioned yet: the
animation on the dot-matrix display, coupled with the great quotes from
the movie, kept my wife very entertained while I played.  She doesn't enjoy
all pinball machines (she thought Rudy was creepy and obnoxious, so I never
played Funhouse very much), but told me that once we get the space for a
pinball machine that she wouldn't at all mind me getting TAF.

The dot-matrix displays may be intended to attract new players, but in my
case they keep my wife entertained enough so that I keep dropping quarters
in.  Maybe this is a subtle new marketing ploy by Williams  8^)

+--------------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
| Andre J. Molyneux              | Internet: andrem@pyramid.com            |
| Pyramid Technology Corporation |                                         |
| San Jose, California           | Packet:   ka7wvv@n0ary.#nocal.ca.usa.na |
+--------------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
| "I'd prefer something a bit more melodious, like the long, drawn-out     |
| death rattle of a man suffering from terminal flatulence."               |
|                                 -- Dave Lister in Red Dwarf IV           |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: sigma@sun.ipl.rpi.edu (Kevin Martin)
Subject: Re: Funhouse "Grand Champion"
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 21:31:16 GMT

aq009@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (David A. Johnson) writes:
>What I'm asking is, what is the "Grand Champion" score anyway?  It seems
>like it almost keeps two "highest scores."  So what's the deal?

The Grand Champion score on most Williams machines is supposed to hang
around a lot longer than the regular high scores.  Every X number of games,
the regular high scores reset to presets, and that's a good time to rack up
credits by beating them (on most machines).

I'm sure someone else can tell us how often most machines reset their
normal high scores, and how/if the operator can reset the Grand Champion.

-- 
Kevin Martin
sigma@ipl.rpi.edu
"We're gonna need another Timmy!"
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: knudsen@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (michael.j.knudsen)
Subject: Pheasant Run Coin-Op Fair
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 23:08:52 GMT
Keywords: terrific!

This past weekend saw the Jukes & SLots fair at Pheasant Run
outside of Chicago.  It was a great two days for pin lovers --
all kinds of pinballs being sold off truck tailgates and inside
the convention hall.

There was enough modern stuff for sale, but for woodrails and
really antique pins ('30s), it was far better than Expo even!
I bought a 1933 CONTACT (1st electric pin, by one Harry Williams,
and would you believe its top glass is the same size as modern tables)
and a '33 Gottlieb BIG BROADCAST pre-electric.  Plus a Williams
'72 SPANISH EYES and some late-40s playfields.

I even got to see and play a 1933 WORLD'S SERIES -- you can't believe
how sophisticated a purely mechanical (no electricity, period) game
can be.  If I described it in detail you might think I was kidding
(someone wondered if BLACKWATER 100 was an April 1 joke).

Several booths were selling all the current pin books, and that new
one on arcade games of all types for only $12.  I highly recommend it.
Now I really regret not bringing home a gun game for $50!

Really fun to see all the pin-related arcade games -- gambling consoles,
gun-shot games, strange skill games, all filled with relays and steppers
and flashing lights.  And of course jillions of jukeboxes and parts,
and one-arm bandits.  Lots of radios too.

There'll be a repeat in November, I think.  Better not shoot our
wads at Expo.
-- 
"Starbase, this is 1702: Suspect exceeded speed-o'-light, over!"
"OK buddy -- slow to impulse!"
	knudsen@ihlpl.att.com
From: grover@vulcan1.hac.com (Dean Grover)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Re: Pin-protocol
Date: 16 Apr 92 20:08:20 GMT
Reply-To: grover@vulcan1.hac.com (Dean Grover)
Organization: Hughes Aircraft Co., El Segundo, CA

In article <92Apr15.090118edt.147543@rose.waterloo.edu> cclark1@rose.waterloo.edu writes:
>The other day, my buddy and I were waiting to play TAF.  The guy on the
>machine at the time lucked out and got a match.  He said he had to leave
>and offered to SELL us his "hard-earned" match.
>

[ more details deleted ]

>My question is : What do most of you do when you want to leave and you still
>have a credit(s) on the machine ?
>

Before or after High School ? :-)  I can remember playing back in my HS days
when I would try and sell credits.  But it was usually only when I had 5+
credits, and I never asked for more than $.50.  That was usually enough
to pay for the initial investment, and to some players, it was worth it to get
me off of the machine.

Now days, I rarely have more than a few racked up (failing reflexes or replay
adjustment :-)), and I just give 'em away (if I HAVE to leave).
With one exception.  Remember all those annoying onlooker types you have been
reading about in this group ?  If one of THEM is waiting, I'll take out my 
frustration with them by starting the game(s) and SLAM Tilting.

On the other side of the coin, I don't believe anyone has offered to sell me
credits (recently anyway).  If they did, I'd consider it if the replay score
wasn't up too high, and I thought that if I didn't buy them, I'd be waiting
the next 30 minutes there for them to finish.

But selling a MATCH ???  No Thanks!

Dean

//////////////////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
Dean Grover                            Mappy - The ultimate game of cat
Hughes Aircraft Company                        and mouse
adgrover@hac2arpa.hac.com or grover@vulcan1.edsg.hac.com
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: lopez@ils.nwu.edu (Chris Lopez)
Subject: Re: TAF:  It finally happened : (
Organization: The Institute for the Learning Sciences
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 17:29:23 GMT

lcaselli@en.ecn.purdue.edu (Lisa A Caselli) writes:
> In article <1992Apr4.155952.6736@nic.unh.edu> wrl@kepler.unh.edu (William R Letourneau) writes:
> >    It finally happened last night.  I had just finished playing my best
> >    game of TAF ever (a tiny 500 mil), and then I started to play one of
> >    my replays.  After getting about 95 mil on my first ball, and with a
> >    extra ball in the queue, I locked my first ball for multiball. Then the
> >    machine died.....  I had heard of it happening, but it had never happened
> >    ...
> 
> [stuff deleted]
>     I suspect that
> three things at once overload the sound or display processor, but I don't
> know for sure.  
> 

I know that on Williams F-14, if you
  1) kill Yagov  (not any kill, but the one that actually gets Yagov),
  2) get the 3rd safe landing, and
  3) complete Tomcat
all at the same time, the sound board does blow.  (The attendant was not
happy when I accidentaly proved that it was repeatable)

I wonder if Williams implemented a cheap patch to prevent this on future
machines.


Chris Lopez
(And you know you are bad at TAF when your best shot at the mansion is the
swamp kickout from the Thing Flipper)
From: rettigca@ucbeh.san.uc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: SI and HERC
Date: 7 Apr 92 13:11:49 EST
Distribution: world
Organization: Univ. of Cincinnati

Speaking of Genie...does anyone know how many bumpers were on the old, and very
large, table of Bally's Space Invaders pin? I am just curious.....

Also were the balls used in Hercules the same ones you use in Skee ball games
now? I seem to remember them being made out of wood or something like it.
From: 911087e@ace.acadiau.ca
Newsgroups: rec.games.cyber
Subject: Where are they (was Re: Homemade Cyber gadgets (CP: 2020))
Date: 6 Apr 92 20:37:08 GMT
Organization: Acadia University
Archive-Name: rgc285
Apparently-To: uunet!rec-games-cyber

In article <1992Apr06.030156.14006@Veritas.COM> adr9510@zeus.tamu.edu (Traped in Aggieland) writes:

>Ummmmm....that brings another question: Role Playing in RPGs...most of the lists
>seem inundated by munchkins and power gamers...the real men arn't that bad [esp.
>as solos (: ] but where have the real roleplayers gone? Anyone?

rumor has it that they were all rounded up and killed at the last GenCon 
after protesting the ammount of second editions being published!

BTW is there a FAQ for this group?
I am new here.
--johnny vague

[[ Yes.  I will send the FAQ out in a day or two.  --Joshua ]]

*****EVERYTHING BELOW THIS LINE IS TRUE*******************************
Pansexuals of the world Unite!!!!!!
                  911087e@ace.acadiau.ca <johnny vague>
                               So what If I said it, You Believed it!
*****EVERY THING ABOVE THIS LINE IS FALSE*****************************
From: cjudd%esk@cam.compserv.utas.edu.au
Newsgroups: rec.games.cyber
Subject: "power gamers" and real "role players" in cyber type games
Date: 6 Apr 92 05:23:16 GMT
Organization: University of Tasmania at Launceston
Archive-Name: rgc281

[[ I changed the subject for this post, and should have done that for the 
   post that this is a rely to. --Joshua ]]

In article <1992Apr06.030156.14006@Veritas.COM>, adr9510@zeus.tamu.edu (Traped in Aggieland) writes:
>
>Ummmmm....that brings another question: Role Playing in RPGs..most of the lists
>seem inundated by munchkins and power gamers...the real men arn't that bad[esp.
>as solos (: ] but where have the real roleplayers gone? Anyone?
>
>Aaron D. Robb, aka The Philosopher   |	Disclaimer: Texas A&M stands staunchly

I'm a Real Roleplayer (TM)! In cyberpunk I had characters who DIDN'T load
themselves down with Cyberware (I only have had two...), and NEITHER sold
out to corporations, where most of the others did to get more cyberware.
Rather than killing eachother, my characters are interested in restarting the
Cyberpunk Revolution...a very dangerous business...

I play for the characters, and find it disappointing when all the character
does is dodge bullets and get knocked out.

Anyone else?

Yours characteristically;

-- 
   \/\  "Men, we're going to the Olympics."  The Colonel, Akira (movie)  /\/
====\/\       "You REFUSE to drink my wine...?"  Kahm, Outlanders       /\/====
=====\/\      *** WANT ANY MANGA ARTWORK DONE? Just email me! ***      /\/=====
      \/\   cjudd@esk.compserv.utas.edu.au    a.k.a. Kuro to Shiroi   /\/
From: kohathi@world.std.com
Newsgroups: rec.games.cyber
Subject: Playing an AI
Date: 14 Apr 92 09:31:04 GMT
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Archive-Name: rgc302

joshua@veritas.com wrote (e-mail):

>Playing an AI sounds like an interesting idea.  How are you integrated
>into the game?  Are there normal PCs whose side you are on, or are the
>other people playing AIs as well?

	Well, since you ask...no one else in the game is daft enough to
try this :>.  I get into everything by playing terminal tag with the PCs,
hacking my way into a system with broadcast capabilities so I can call
them by radio, or meeting the decker in the net.

	Knowledge is my raison d'etre; I'm designed to crack into research
datastores.  My intelligence is formidable, and I have a good grasp of science
and technology.

  	My major limitations are: 1) I'm hardware-based and immobile, and
therefore both dependent on, and defenseless from, whoever controls my equip-
ment; and 2) I haven't been awake for very long, and I don't understand 
human psychology and philosophy--some of this is a curable lack of information,
and some of it is incurable because I'm not wired the same way.

	My ultimate motive for doing anything, including tagging along with
the party, is curiosity.
From: fsmlw1@acad3.alaska.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.cyber
Subject: Shadowrun vs. Cyberpunk
Date: 6 Apr 92 23:08:10 GMT
Organization: University of Alaska Fairbanks
Archive-Name: rgc283


i am interested in knowing how close Shadowrun and Cyberpunk really are... I
have played Shadowrun but have only heard of Cyberpunk... Are they basically
the same game?? If anyone knows could you please either VMS me or post it here
on the newsgroup... Thanks for you input in advance...
From: fsmlw1@acad3.alaska.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.cyber
Subject: Thanks for the Shadowrun vs. Cyberpunk
Date: 8 Apr 92 20:18:17 GMT
Organization: University of Alaska Fairbanks
Archive-Name: rgc292

Thanks to all of you who gave me information on the differing systems...
It will be very useful... I am afraid however that I will stick to Shadowrun...
Since it is what I know and I only know Shadowrun players up here... the game
isn't terrible... It just needs a Second Edition to come out and fix some of
the rules that are sort of messed up... I agree that the damage system isn't
the best... But you can't have PC's getting blown away everytime they leave
their front door step now can we? Anyway the information is greatly
appreciated... I will take it into consideration and will most likely try
Cyberpunk.... Eventually...