HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dwood@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Deron A Wood)
Subject: Patrese's comments, possible spoiler
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 12:53:00 GMT


Since no one else has commented, did anyone else hear Patrese's comment that 
Berger's move was "the work of a killer".   Pretty strong words but not 
completely unjustified.  Berger had to have known that Patrese was there trying
to get the tow, he should have waved Patrese past.  What happened was a very 
scary moment that I am glad no one was hurt or killed.
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: thos@suite.sw.oz.au (Thomas Cohen)
Subject: Re: F1 Portugal: Patrese incident
Organization: Softway Pty Ltd
Date: 29 Sep 92 21:38:18 GMT

In <MARTIN.92Sep29154117@kilo.inferenzsysteme.informatik.th-darmstadt.de> martin@inferenzsysteme.informatik.th-darmstadt.de (Martin Protzen) writes:

>I for my part think that Berger should have been blackflagged as he
>purposely played tricks on Patrese. I'm not saying that Berger's
>intention was this accident but he slowed down without a reason. My
>first impression was that he perhaps missed a gear but he didn't
>mention such a thing in the interviews. So although slowing down (and
>being pushed by Patrese) he went for a pit stop but actually didn't
>stop there. German TV showed Berger on the track again before Patrese
>had left his car. That means his only intentions were to keep Patrese
>behind.

I don't think this is likely. We have seen McLaren change tyres in less
than 6 seconds this year. So Berger could have been on the track about
15 odd seconds after entering the pits. I don't think Patrese would 
have been out of his car in that time. So just because Berger was on
the track before Patrese doesn't mean it was a fake stop.

IMHO, the accident, whilst perhaps having some element of trickery on
Berger's part, was just one of those things that happen. If you are 
getting a slingshot from someone exactly the same thing could happen
if they blew a motor, except that you'd be more likely to run into them
then as you wouldn't be able to see where you were going.

regards,
-- 
thos cohen  				       |Softway Pty Ltd
 The best way to make a Japanese engineer wince|ACSnet:         thos@softway.oz
 is (when talking about an NSX) to say slowly  |UUCP: ...!uunet!softway.oz!thos
 'but its _not a Ferrari_ is it?' R.Bulgin, CAR|Internet:    thos@softway.oz.au
From: rsv@gdwb.oz.au (Roger Virgo)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Bathurst Stoppage
Date: 4 Oct 92 23:21:02 GMT

The Bathurst 1000 should not have been stopped,

- Race conditions were no worse than they had been previously

- The track was not blocked

- No ones life was in any greater danger given the wet conditions

- Accidents were happening relativly slowly

I think stopping the race was a knee jerk recaction to the pictures being shown
on TV. The pace car should have been used and the race finished.

You have to feel sorry for Dick and John, but rules are rules. It would be
interesting to know how close to the start/finish the 17 car was when the race
was stopped.

Thats motor racing,

Roger and out.
From: tiok_kl@tac.fi (Kari Leminen)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: F1 Portugal: Patrese incident
Date: 30 Sep 92 08:18:02 +0300
Organization: City of Tampere

>> martin@inferenzsysteme.informatik.th-darmstadt.de (Martin Protzen) writes:
> 
>>So what do you think ?

> tvp53202@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Toby Vaughn Padfield) writes:

> 	I don't really think he was trying to play tricks. I think he was
> genuinely going to pit, which he did, as one could see by his not having  
> passed Patrese on the track afterward. It was a bad accident and berger
> should have waved Patrese by...
> 
> 
        Take a close look at that curve where accident started .
	I heard some experts say that its simpy impossible to loosen
	your grip from the wheel to wave . G-force ,you know...


------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
tiok_kl@tac.fi       Department of information technology     
Kari Leminen                      Tampere                    
                                  Finland 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: msjohnso@donald.WichitaKS.NCR.COM (Mark Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: IndyCar Info:  what about Pocono, attendance and $$$ ?
Date: 29 Sep 92 20:05:44 GMT
Reply-To: msjohnso@donald.WichitaKS.NCR.COM (Mark Johnson)
Organization: NCR Corporation Wichita, KS


Speaking of Indy racetracks, whatever happened to the Indianapolis Speedway
clone at Ontario, CA??? [ Almost a clone; the short-chutes were banked same
as the turns, instead of flat like Indy].

I remember hearing it was to be sold for real estate development some time
back. A shame; it was a fine multi-use raceway [2.5 mi oval, road course
in the infield, and dragstrip in the front straight--site of the first
sub-6 second 1/4 mile back in 1971].

Please post or e-mail any answers!
-- 
Mark Johnson                          USnail: NCR Peripheral Products Division
E-mail:  Mark.Johnson@WichitaKS.NCR.COM       3718 N. Rock Rd.
Voice: (316) 636-8189 [V+ 654-8189]           Wichita, KS  67226
[Non-business email: 76670.1775@compuserve.com]
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: gene@wucs1.wustl.edu (_Floor_)
Subject: Re: SOMEONE PLEASE CLARIFY SENNA/PROST/WILLIAMS etc CONFUSION
Keywords: FORMULA ONE - Confusion on F1 Rumors
Organization: The K-Zoo Crew
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 16:51:02 GMT

In article <1abb52INNm2q@uniwa.uwa.edu.au> humpty@tartarus.uwa.edu.au (Daniel Ong) writes:
] -  Prost has just signed with Williams about 3 hours before the race -
] contrary to what everyone believed, he didn't sign as early as April. 
] It was only on race day that he put pen to paper.

As I understand it, Prost had a contract with _Renault_ for several
months before he actually signed with Team Willy on Sunday.
This guaranteed Prost a drive with Renault, but not that Renault
would be with Williams.

  _____    "But you can't really call that a dance. It's a walk." - Tony Banks
 /  ___\  ___  __ ___   ___      _____________   gene@cs.wustl.edu
 | / __  / _ \ | /   \ / _ \     |  physics  |   gene@lechter.wustl.edu
 | \_\ \ | __/ |  /\ | | __/     |racquetball|   gev1@cec2.wustl.edu
 \_____/ \___/ |_| |_| \___/     |volleyball |   gene@camps.phy.vanderbilt.edu
 Gene Van Buren, Kzoo Crew(Floor), Washington U. in St. Lou - #1 in Volleyball
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: pod@sour.sw.oz.au (Paul O'Donnell)
Subject: Bathurst Qualifying day 1
Organization: Softway Pty Ltd
Date:  1 Oct 92 23:06:18 GMT


1. Richards/Skaife        Nissan GT-R         2:14.36
2. Johnson/Bowe           Ford Sierra         2:14.56
3. Perkins/Harrington     Holden Commodore    2:14.99
4. Olofsson/Crompton      Nissan GT-R         2:15.00
5. Mezera/Brad Jones      Holden Commodore    2:15.74 *
6. Longhurst/Cecotto      BMW M3              2:15.92
7. Percy/Grice            Holden Commodore    2:16.16 *
8. Seton/Alan Jones #     Ford Falcon         2:16.36 *
9. Gibbs/Onslow           Nissan GT-R         2:16.67
10.O'Brien/Brabham $      Ford Sierra         2:17.24
11.Brock/Reuter           Holden Commodore    2:17.60 *

# Yes, THAT Alan Jones.
$ No, not THAT Brabham, one of the young'uns, (I think Gary).

* We wont run Group A next year but a wierdo combination of British
2 litre cars an local Fords and Holdens running U.S. motors.  These
cars are allowed to run here.  The formula has been specially
designed so the big V8s won't be embarrassed by the littlies, with
the result that many potential littlies won't run.  Well done CAMS.

There is more qualifying today.  Then tomorrow the top ten each
get a single lap to decide their starting order.  I'm going to
Bathurst tomorrow so unless I can get the results of todays session
this evening, this will be the last you'll hear from me 'til Monday.

Paul
-- 
Paul O'Donnell - Softway Pty Ltd         |"You're just saying that because
Internet: pod@softway.sw.oz.au           |you don't understand art."
Phone: +61 2 698-2322 Fax: +61 2 699-9174|     - Jeremy Fitzhardinge

-- 
Paul O'Donnell - Softway Pty Ltd         |"You're just saying that because
Internet: pod@softway.sw.oz.au           |you don't understand art."
Phone: +61 2 698-2322 Fax: +61 2 699-9174|     - Jeremy Fitzhardinge
From: apf8@aber.ac.uk (A-P (and his Hat))
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Superlicense requirements?
Date: 27 Sep 92 15:48:34 GMT
Organization: Sketchy At Best Ltd.

kevinc@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (kevin.j.coulter) doodles:

> Ok, so Michael isn't qualified for a superlicense. Just what ARE the
> requirements for a superlicense?

Well, the following bunch of stuff has been filched without per-
mission from an article in Motorsport magazine from earlier in
the year. The original article was based on the plight of Perry
McCarthy and now-you-see-it now-you-dont superlicence:

================================================================
The rules of the game [Appendix L Article 3.6 of the Interna-
tional Sporting Code] say, on the subject of the superlicences,
that every F1 driver must posess before he or she can drive a
car in company with their rivals:

"A driver's name can only be placed on the Super-A licence list
on the sole decision of the Formula One Commission and on condi-
tion that:
1) He must be the holder of an A licence, and
2) -- either: he must have effectively participated in a season
of the FIA International Championship for F3000
   -- or: he must be the current champion of the principal
National F3 Championship of one of he following countries: Great
Britain, France, West Germany, Italy, Japan, South America.
   -- or: he has started in at least 5 events counting for the
F1 World Championship for Drivers the previous year.

"Exceptionally, the F1 superlicence may also be issued to other
drivers whose record of results is judged sufficient by the For-
mula One Commission.

"The driver's name will remain on the list for two years, if at
the end of this period he no longer fulfils the above criteria,
his case may be reviewed by the F1 Commission."
================================================================

A 'delightful' fudge of strictness and vagueness dont you think?
Hope I've been of some help. :-)

A-P
-- 
INET: apf8@aber.ac.uk   JANET: apf8@uk.ac.aber   BITNET: apf8%aber@ukacrl
UUCP: ...!mcsun!ukc!aber!apf8    ARPA: apf8%uk.ac.aber@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk
=========================================================================
Freedom is not license to do as we please, but liberty to do as we ought.
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: lav4208@venus.tamu.edu 
Subject: Re: F1 Drivers
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 05:27:00 GMT

In article <97176@bu.edu>, nicos@cs.bu.edu (Nicos Kontopoulos) writes...
> 
>A couple of questions first:
> 
>- Why did Senna have to go into the pits 3 times during the last laps of
>  the Estoril GP?
>
	My guess is that he had bald tires considering how much of the track
	he uses.
> 
>- Why do ESPN commentators refer to Mansell as the "most popular F1 driver?"
> 
	underdog syndrome. prior to 1992 hes always been that charging maverick
	coming from behind with inferior and/or unreliable equipment.
	if he were in f1 next year, things would change, moreso if he
	won the championship in 1993. [why do the cubs have such a massive
	following]
> 
> 
>About the drivers now:
> 
>   There has been only one post about Senna after the Estoril GP.
>Are all the rest of you blind or what? The man is the best! No one comes
>close to driving ability and skills (of those F1 drivers that participated
>in the 1992 championship). Just the facts that he set fastest lap (almost one
>second faster than Mansell) in an inferior car, and that he reclaimed 3rd
>place so cleanly and quickly were, I think, mind-blowing.
> 
	considering that both fastest lap and his charge were done late
	in the race with pristine tires and an almost empty tank, i would
	have been surprised had he not done so.
>
>   To the people that object to his technique of making it difficult for
>other drivers to pass him, I can only say three things:
>- He has never been considered dangerous, while doing this.
>
	depends on who you listen to.
>
>- He only does it when there is a point to it (see AS waive Mansell by earlier
>  this year).
>- Why don't you experience some racing yourselves to see what it is like...
> 
>   I was NEVER a big Senna fan, but the way things are (Piquet is out, Mansell
>is not in the same class as Senna, Prost etc (again IMHO)), who can be better
>than Senna?
> 
	timely opinion. The roles were pretty much reversed last year.
> 
>   To those of you that answered my last question with "Michael Andretti",
>think again. It's going to be a couple of seasons before Andretti becomes
>competitive in F1 (if ever).
> 
>   To those that answered with "Alain Prost", I can only say "we shall see."
>One thing we definitely do not need in ras is comments about used car
>salesmen in Rio etc...
> 
	As is the case in many sports, we havent yet noticed the best driver
	in f1. Whoever it is, hes likely testdriving and has only raced in
	inferior equipment. wait 1-2 years.
> 
> 
>-- 
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>   Nicos Kontopoulos                             Voice: (617) 787-1780
>   INTERnet: nicos@cs.bu.edu                      This space for rent.
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: marti@nugget.inf.ethz.ch (Robert Marti)
Subject: Sauber (was: New F1 Awareness)
Organization: Dept. Informatik, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH), Zurich, CH
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 16:16:48 GMT

In article <Bv79KL.A6y@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, cjp53999@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
(Cory James Padfield) writes:
|> kevinh@hslrswi.hasler.ascom.ch (kevinh) writes:
|> >On another thread, has anybody heard anything about the Sauber teams
|> >progress, I heard that they've been testing at some circuit in France but
|> >haven't heard anything since. Also, how did they get the contact with
|> >goodyear (one of 5 teams to get free tyres). Are Mercedes playing the
|> >"behind the scenes" big brother??

|> A Goodyear official, Barry Griffin, said " I don't think there's any
|> denying that Mercedes-Benz is connected with Sauber, and Mercedes-Benz
|> is important to Goodyear. We have different reasons for working with teams.
|> Some are commercial related, and some are performance related."
|>   So, yes, I believe that Mercedes is playing so behind-the-scenes action
|> with Sauber. '94 sould bring most of the answers.


Are my messages getting out to the net at large?  Or have you all put
my name into your kill file? ;-)  I have been trying to explain the
relationship between Sauber and Mercedes at least twice in the past 6
months or so ...

The official story goes like this:
Sauber had a contract with Mercedes till either 92 or 93 to field the
Mercedes Group C sports cars.  Mercedes decided to pull out of Group C
sports cars at the end of 91.  Contrary to what most people believed,
Mercedes also decided to not enter F1.  Mercedes therefore agreed to
pay substantial damages to Sauber for their breach of contract.  As a
result, Sauber decided to continue with the F1 project that he had
started in the middle of 91 on behalf of Mercedes on his own.

To summarize:  Officially, Sauber is all by himself, but Mercedes is
subsidizing his effort at least financially.

Of course, many people believe that Mercedes will re-emerge from their
current background role if -- or rather, as soon as -- the F1 Sauber
is reasonably successful.

-- 
Robert Marti                    |  Phone:    +41 1 254 72 60
Informationssysteme             |  FAX:      +41 1 262 39 73
ETH-Zentrum                     |  E-Mail:   marti@inf.ethz.ch
CH-8092 Zurich, Switzerland     |
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: bob@ncube.com (Bob Kehoe)
Subject: PITSTOP (9/29) Notes
Organization: nCUBE Computers, Beaverton, Oregon, U.S.A.
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 15:19:05 GMT

Featured on PITSTOP last night:

- Don Walker (of Portland), to review his GTU win at Lime Rock
last Saturday.  First victory for Don in his rookie IMSA season.
This made it 5 consecutive years that FullTime Racing has picked
up the GTU win at LRP, each with a different driver.  Don announced
that he has signed on to again drive the GTU Dodge for FTR in the
'93 season.  The status of his teammate John Fergus is not know at
this time.

- Parker Johnstone, via phone from Phoenix, where they'll be running
this coming weekend.  Yesterday during practice the outside temp was
about 107, with high humidity.  Parker said it was about 135 in the
cockpit.  After practice, all the drivers quickly headed back to their
air-conditioned hotels to suck up tons of water.  He likes the combined
oval/road course at PIR, sort of a mini-Daytona.  He stated that if the
GTP cars ran the oval alone, they'd be lapping about a second quicker
than the IndyCars.  Of course Parker has pretty much wrapped up the 
GTL driver's championship again in '92 with 190 points, and teammate
Dan Marvin is second with 160-something.  The big fight, with two races
to go, is for the mfg. championship, so they're concentrating 110% with
both cars, the second being driven by Melgratti/Taylor.  He also
mentioned that the fuel controversy has been settled.  IMSA rescinded
the fines against Toyota and Nissan - apologies were floating around
the paddock.  We didn't have time to get an update on the Acura GTP
program for '93(?), so after the season ends Parker will come over from
Redmond to spend the night in the studio with us and we'll get the
scoop.

- Bob Anderson, VP of ProRacing for SCCA.  Bob was in town to negotiate
a new 3-year contract at Portland for TransAm, as the present one had
expired.  Many good things going on in TransAm and look for additional
drivers/teams next year.  It was also announced yesterday that one new
race in '93 will be at the Ohio State Fairgrounds, with another
possibility being at some track in Texas, associated with an IndyCar
event.  Obviously this piece of news raised my eyebrows.  Will have to
follow-up.  The last TA race of the season is this weekend at Sears.

So those 3 interviews pretty much consumed the first hour.  We wound
down a bit during the newsbreak and shared some other racing
news/conversation during the second.  Had a good number of callers as
well.

-cball-
From: conrad@pico.qpsx.oz.au (Conrad Drake)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Honda to Indy?
Date: 2 Oct 92 07:01:57 GMT
Reply-To: conrad@pico.qpsx.oz.au
Organization: QPSX Communications
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

fleck@acsu.buffalo.edu (richard j fleck) writes:
: In article <1992Sep29.164619.9169@ncube.com> bob@ncube.com (Bob Kehoe) writes:
: >
: >Now, name all the racing series that utilize methanol fuel, and
: >I think you can deduce which direction Honda is going in racing.
: >
: >-cball-
: 
: Just wondering,  What percentage of Hondas world car production
: is sold in the US and How does that compare to the percentage
: sold in Europe?
: 
: Rich Fleck

A niggling point, but the question should end with "sold elsewhere"


--
"There's something stirring in my loins and it isn't the spirit of Jesus"
                - Helen Razor, JJJ announcer, 1992.

Email: conrad@pico.qpsx.oz.au
Snail: QPSX Communications, Private Bag 24, West Perth 6005, Australia. 
Numbers:(ph) +61 9 324 1641, (fx) +61 9 321 2984 (dod) 0604

Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: pz@keps.kodak.com (Paul Czarnecki)
Subject: Re: F1 Drivers
Organization: Kodak Electronic Printing Systems
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 18:07:47 GMT

In article <97176@bu.edu> nicos@cs.bu.edu (Nicos Kontopoulos) writes:
>in the 1992 championship). Just the facts that he set fastest lap (almost one
>second faster than Mansell) in an inferior car,

Fastest laps don't mean all that much because they are so artificial.
The continuously decreasing fuel load in F1 means that the next lap
always has the potential to be faster than previous lap and the
closing laps have the potential to be fastest overall.  Near the end
of the race some drivers back off to preserve the car.  (Getting the
fastest lap is not as important to them as getting the win.) He was a
second faster than Mansell because Mansell did not need to drive
faster to win.  Nigel was way out front, he didn't need to push any,
Senna was closing on Brundle so he needed to give it everything. 

Wins are what matter and both Prost, Senna, and Mansell have
demonstrated the capability to take wins. 

>                                                and that he reclaimed 3rd
>place so cleanly and quickly were, I think, mind-blowing.

Remember, Senna was on fresh tires and Brundle probably wasn't.  It
was a very good drive but not all that impressive, why was he behind
him in the first place?  Think back to Spa with Senna & Schumacher &
Brundle from laps 8-13.  Now that was impressive driving from all of
them. 

>- He has never been considered dangerous, while doing this. [blocking --pZ]

Yeah, he is only considered dangerous when he is behind you!  1/2 :-)

					pZ
From: ah335@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Richard Banks)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: [A.H.Henry@gdr.bath.ac.uk: Re: Patrese's accident Vs Villeneuve's]
Date: 2 Oct 92 14:40:34 GMT
Reply-To: ah335@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Richard Banks)



    ================= Begin forwarded message =================

    From: A.H.Henry@gdr.bath.ac.uk (unknown)
    To: ah335@cleveland.freenet.edu
    Subject: Re: Patrese's accident Vs Villeneuve's
    Date: Tue, 29 Sep

    
    Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
    In-Reply-To: <1a85gjINNn77@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>
    References: <thos.717715635@suite.sw.oz.au><1992Sep28.030917.7252@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>
    Organization: School of Biological Sciences, University of Bath, UK
    
    In article <1a85gjINNn77@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>you write:
    >
    >In a previous article, thos@suite.sw.oz.au (Thomas Cohen) says:
    >
    >I don't mean to sound insensitive or morbid, but does anyone know of
    >a tape I can rent that has footage of Villeneuve's crash?
    
    I posted this sometime in March. I hope it helps.
    
    Andrew
    
    Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: dafuller@sequent.com (David Fuller)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Race Rock Motor City Diner
Keywords: address and phone number
Date: 4 Oct 92 07:02:51 GMT
Article-I.D.: sequent.1992Oct4.070251.17016
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc.

In article <1992Oct2.220407.28097@unislc.uucp> buzz@unislc.uucp (Buzz Wendzel) writes:
>Hot Rod lists their source as:
>  Race Rock Motor City Diner
>  Dept. HR09
>  34901 Groesbeck Hwy.
>  (at 15 Mile Rd.)
>  Fraser, MI  48026
>  313/792-RACE

The pun here is that Flat Rock is the area's most successful asphalt
short track and the home of the Ford/Mazda Probe/MX-6 factory.

If you get into the area check the track out, it's the home of lots
of VERY competitive stockers.  Nobody lacks for good motors or sheet metal.
-- 
Dave Fuller		 	All opinions expressed are my own and not
Sequent Computer Systems	those of Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.
dafuller@sequent.com
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport