HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: olson@mydual.uucp (Kirtland H. Olson)
Subject: Re: Info on Hypertext CASE systems?
Reply-To: olson%mydual.uucp@alliant.com
Organization: The Harvard Group, 01451-0667
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 16:04:07 GMT

In article <C0ozu9.BIC@compsci.liverpool.ac.uk> damon@csc.liv.ac.uk (Damon Chaplin) writes:
>Does anyone have any info about any Hypertext CASE systems/papers?

Contact Neil Larson of MaxThink at:

2490 Channing #218
Berkeley, CA  94704

415-540-5508 VOX
415-540-6114 BBS
415-548-4686 FAX

for information on the use of MaxThink products in software engineering.
He may be able to put you in touch with end-users.

>Or any ideas as to what should be included in such a system.

Based on similar systems (CA*E), I suggest that the ability to link to
other products via standard file formats and OS commands preserves the
end-user's right to control the performance of systems.  This factor
plays a crucial role precisely because no manufacturer of software is
willing (or able) to support every use.




-- 
Kirtland H. Olson                     olson%mydual.uucp@alliant.com
Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
From: raney@teal.csn.org (Scott Raney)
Subject: Re: Hypertext FAQ is here! (intro)
Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc.
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 22:22:16 GMT

dhirmes@hamp.hampshire.edu writes:

>Hello.  Well, the hypertext FAQ file that I promised I'd write several months
>ago finally has a first draft.  There are many "holes" in it that need to be
>plugged, but all in all, I think it's a pretty decent document.  First hand
>accounts of experiences with many of the hypertext systems listed is sorely
>lacking.  If anyone would like to contribute, please mail me.  Also, I only
>have one hypertext system listed for UNIX based machines.  If you know of
>any more, please post.

Please include our product MetaCard in your list.  MetaCard is a
hypermedia/Rapid Application Development environment similar
Apple/Claris HyperCard.  It runs on 10 UNIX/X11 platforms with a
DESQview/X port nearly complete.  One of UNIXWorld magazine's 10
Best Products of 1992.

You can anonymously FTP a save-disabled distribution from
ftp.metacard.com (directory MetaCard) or ftp.uu.net (directory
vendor/MetaCard).  The cost is $495 with a 50% educational discount.

MetaCard Corporation
4710 Shoup pl.
Boulder, CO  80303
303-447-3936
303-499-9855
info@metacard.com
-- 
***********************************************************************
* Scott Raney  303-447-3936            Remember: the better you look, *
* raney@metacard.com                   the more you'll see -- Lidia   *
***********************************************************************
From: Larry Geller <lgeller@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
Date: 08 Jan 93 09:36 PST
Subject: Re: HyGen from MaxThink
Nf-ID: #R:1hb3hnINNmc2@usenet.ins.cwru.edu:-1982909569:cdp:1306100008:000:696
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!lgeller    Jan  8 09:36:00 1993


I received my HyGen over the holidays.  Fantastic program!  It 
comes with a new set of utility programs which manipulate lists 
of key words and glossary phrases.  And it can create references 
to text files based on the proximity of the words in the phrases 
within the text.

Although I need more experience using the new program, right now 
it seems that this is sure to become a hot item because of the 
speed of preparation it permits.

There's also mention of a separate program to convert a hypertext 
system into Windows help file format without all the fuss.  I 
don't have a need for it now, but it might be useful if I ever 
need to distribute a hypertext system to others.

--Larry


Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
From: jlenarci@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au (John Lenarcic)
Subject: What is "HyperGrid"?
Organization: Monash University, Melb., Australia.
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 07:28:34 GMT


While at the local bookstore I had a quick look at Harper Perennial's
new compilation book "Mondo 2000". It had a few pages in it by Ted Nelson
where he briefly mentions his new project "HyperGrid" - a hyperspace with
no metaphors (Ted's really anti-metaphor). Does anyone have any detailed
info about this? The article just mentioned this in word only, basically.

Thanks.


		cheers,
		
		John Lenarcic

		Postal address:
		Department of Software Development,
		Monash University,
		P.O. Box 197,
		Caulfield East, Victoria 3145
		AUSTRALIA

		Fax number: 61-3-5732745

		E-mail address:
		jlenarci@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au
Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
From: tcmay@netcom.com (Timothy C. May)
Subject: Storyspace discussion
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 19:49:30 GMT

There's a discussion of the "Storyspace" hypertext program for the Mac
going on in the group "misc.writing".

Someone thought the program was called "Storyshaper," which is why the
thread has that name.

Several of us have commented on using Storyspace for fiction writing,
so if this interests you, go check it out.

-Tim May

-- 
..........................................................................
Timothy C. May         | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,  
tcmay@netcom.com       | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
408-688-5409           | knowledge, reputations, information markets, 
W.A.S.T.E.: Aptos, CA  | black markets, collapse of governments.
Higher Power: 2^756839 | PGP Public Key: by arrangement.

Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
From: gtmartin@athena.mit.edu (Gregory T Martin)
Subject: Re: The Hypertext FAQ
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 22:42:58 GMT


I would just like to add that there is another hypertext
system available on wsmr-simtel20.army.mil in the directory 
pd1:<msdos.hypertext> which you might want to mention in 
the FAQ. The program, called Zoom,  was originally
developed for the World Health Organization and is 
available from:

Alternative Technologies Inc.
MIT Branch
PO Box 118
Cambridge, MA 02139-0902 USA


------------------------------------------
Gregory T. Martin
Harvard-MIT Biomedical Engineering Center
Massachusetts Institute of Technology
20A - 108
77 Massachusetts Avenue
Cambridge, MA 02139 USA

Voice:    617-253-3605
FAX:      617-253-2514
INTERNET: gmartin@hotstuff.mit.edu
          gmartin@hstbme.mit.edu
From: dhirmes@hamp.hampshire.edu
Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
Subject: Hypertext FAQ is here! (intro)
Date: 7 Jan 93 17:13:33 EDT
Organization: Hampshire College
NNTP-Posting-Host: hamp.hampshire.edu

Hello.  Well, the hypertext FAQ file that I promised I'd write several months
ago finally has a first draft.  There are many "holes" in it that need to be
plugged, but all in all, I think it's a pretty decent document.  First hand
accounts of experiences with many of the hypertext systems listed is sorely
lacking.  If anyone would like to contribute, please mail me.  Also, I only
have one hypertext system listed for UNIX based machines.  If you know of
any more, please post.  Questions, comments, and/or corrections, either mail
me or post on alt.hypertext.  In a few weeks, after any initial corrections,
I'll post version 1.0 that can be freely distributed.

Thanks,

David Hirmes
Hampshire College
dhirmes@hamp.hampshire.edu
Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
Subject: Books and Software
From: gnat@kauri.vuw.ac.nz (Nathan Torkington)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 22:46:42 GMT
Organization: Contract to CSC, Victoria Uni, Wellington, New Zealand

As an enthusiastic newbie, I'd like to know two things:
 -- which books give the best coverage of the theory and practice of
	marking text for hypertext?
and
 -- what modifications have people made to the Unix hytelnet program
	to suit their needs?  (I'm thinking executing shell scripts,
	multiple hypertext nodes in a file, multiple files, etc).

Cheers;

Nat
-- 
Nathan.Torkington@vuw.ac.nz is the Electronic Text and MS-DOS archivist
for the Victoria University of Wellington, New Zealand.  Work mail to:
[(msdos-archive),(etext-archive),(wais-admin),(gopher-admin),(roget-admin),
(compose-faq),(pratchett-faq),(douglas-adams-faq),(games-list)]@vuw.ac.nz
From: damon@csc.liv.ac.uk (Damon Chaplin)
Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
Subject: Info on Hypertext CASE systems?
Date: 11 Jan 93 13:51:45 GMT
Organization: Computer Science, Liverpool University

Does anyone have any info about any Hypertext CASE systems/papers?
Or any ideas as to what should be included in such a system.

Thanks very much.

Damon Chaplin
Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
From: Eastgate@world.std.com (Mark Bernstein)
Subject: Re: FTP location?
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 18:57:28 GMT

mscrap@halcyon.com (Marta Lyall) writes:

>Does anyone know if the electronic version of, _Writing Space: The
>Computer, Hypertext, and the History of Writing_, by Jay David Bolter,
>can be found at an FTP location? Thanks.

I don't know of an FTP site, but the electronic version is available
on Macintosh disk for $8.95 from Lawrence Erlbaum 365 Broadway Hillsdale
NY 07642 (800) 926-6579, or for $10.00 from Eastgate Systems, 134 Main
Street, Watertown MA 02172 (800) 562-1638.
-- 
Mark Bernstein
Eastgate Systems, Inc.   134 Main Street   Watertown MA 02172 USA
voice: (800) 562-1638 in USA   +1(617) 924-9044
Eastgate@world.std.com    Compuserve: 76146,262    AppleLink:Eastgate
From: sysmgr@king.eng.umd.edu (Doug Mohney)
Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
Subject: HyperWrite 1.0 for Windows
Date: 6 Jan 93 21:05:45 GMT
Reply-To: sysmgr@king.eng.umd.edu
Organization: Computer Aided Design Lab, U. of Maryland College Park

it's by looking glass software; anyone else work with it/seen it?


                    I have talked to Ehud, and lived.
  -- >                  SYSMGR@CADLAB.ENG.UMD.EDU                        < --
Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
From: liuxia@wam.umd.edu (New VaxHacker)
Subject: Re: Hypertext FAQ is here! (intro)
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 16:13:20 GMT

In article <1993Jan7.171333.1@hamp.hampshire.edu> dhirmes@hamp.hampshire.edu writes:
.......     
>                                                               Also, I only
>have one hypertext system listed for UNIX based machines.  If you know of
>any more, please post.  
.......     

Check out, Trellis, a petri net based hypertext system developed by
professors Rick Furuta of U of MD at College Park and Dave Stotts 
of UNC at Chaple Hill. They can be reached thru 'furuta@cs.umd.edu'
and 'pds@cs.umd.edu'. It used to be available by anonymous ftp from
trellis.cs.umd.edu but not sure now. It runs on SUNs. 

			Michael Liu 
Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
From: pshepard@nyx.cs.du.edu (Pat Shepard)
Subject: For Windows
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix (sponsored by U. of Denver Math/CS dept.)
Disclaimer1: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University of
Disclaimer2: Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
Disclaimer3: control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 93 07:20:42 GMT

I realize this is probably a FAQ, but what are the options for creating
hypertext documents under windows?  I'm especially interested in PD or 
shareware, and in something that will create standalone texts.  Also, to
avoid future FAQ's, where can I find a FAQ list for this group? :)
From: martini@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (ok)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism,talk.religion.misc,alt.pagan
Subject: Re: did I like miss your point?
Date: 4 Jan 93 17:49:40 GMT
Followup-To: alt.atheism
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX


ohair, o'hair, O'Hair... hair upon one's head, also Maddie's last name.

ohare, o'hare, O'Hare.. bunny like critters, also *my* last name, and
PLEASE!!! spell it right, this sort of miss spelling of Dr O'Hair's last
name has given rise to the grief that *my* Dr. O'Hare(dad) has been given,
at all hours of the morning or day, from people wanting to chat with the
famed athiest, or SKRIECHEEEE at her for not being a good Christian (my
parents are Catholic, and will answer the fone at 4 in the a.m. because
we are (all of us) the type to run out and help friends w/ car troubles,
etc)

sorry, but she lives in austin, or people think that she does, and kind
as my parents try to be, they are *never* happy to be confused for her..
(of course, my mom's first name starting with an 'M' doesnt help either)

thank you..

now, as to whether or not she is a fanatic, I dont know.. but I dont think that
a quiet few minutes in a school room for people to meditate on the start
of the day is a bad thing, if a specific religion or *non* religion isnt
forced on people.. enforcing athiesm seems sort of as wackie to me as forcing
"Bless us Lord and our food.." on a cafeteria..

thanks again,
sheilagh o'hare
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
From: ags@seaman.cc.purdue.edu (Dave Seaman)
Subject: Re: Oath/Affirmation of Office of the U.S. House of Representatives
Organization: Purdue University
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 20:38:20 GMT

In article <C0Eus5.70I@cs.uiuc.edu> kadie@cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie)  
writes:
> I heard the Oath (given by Speaker of the House Tom Foley) on the
> radio today.  It went something like:
> 
> "I do solemnly swear [...] So help me God."

[Quote of Constitution on content of the oath omitted.]

> So were did Foley get on the religious stuff? What would happen if a
> Quaker or agnotistic represenative-elect refused to take Foley's oath?
> 
> It seems to me the Foley Oath violates the very Constitution it claims
> to binding representatives to.

I agree that it violates the Constitution, but Foley was merely following  
tradition. It was George Washington, at his first inauguration, who added  
"So help me God" to the oath, and everyone has been doing it since.

--
Dave Seaman
ags@seaman.cc.purdue.edu
From: ednclark@kraken.itc.gu.edu.au (Jeffrey Clark)
Subject: Re: iq<->religion: connection?
Organization: ITC, Griffith University, Brisbane, Australia
Date:  4 Jan 93 23:52:08 GMT

mathew <mathew@mantis.co.uk> writes:

>The "sincere observation" that high IQ correlates with atheism is certainly
>an interesting one.  I'm afraid that the last time I did an IQ test it
>indicated that I had an IQ of 68, and so I'm rather predisposed to (a) doubt
>the correlation you suggest and (b) doubt the usefulness of IQ tests as a
>measure of intelligence of any variety.

>Of course, feel free to argue that I really am a moron.


>mathew

Anybody who takes on the job of updating the FAQ and reposting it at regular
intervals must be a moron. (Sorry Matthew, but I really do feel for you and
wonder how you got suckered into the job).

Jeff.
From: dgray@menudo.uh.edu (Dennis Gray Jr.)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Weekly bible lesson (have an open mind!)
Date: 12 Jan 1993 02:18:38 GMT
Organization: Academic Computer User Services
	<parsons.726764730@cygnus.cis.ksu.edu.cis.ksu.edu>
Reply-To: DGray@uh.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: menudo.uh.edu
In-reply-to: parsons@cis.ksu.edu's message of 11 Jan 93 14:52:39 GMT

In article <parsons.726764730@cygnus.cis.ksu.edu.cis.ksu.edu> parsons@cis.ksu.edu (Scott S Parish ) writes:

   I can see you didn't bother to read any more than what you thought
   necessary.  David wasn't demanding Nabal's sheep or anything else.
   David was asking Nabal to return the hospitality David had shown to 
   Nabal's servants when they were in the wilderness with David's men. 
   While out in the wilderness David protected them so that nothing
   they had was lost (v.16).  Now, David in a time of need was asking for a
   little hospitality.  What David got in return was a resounding insult 
   (v.14) -- a bad breach of protocol in those days.  Thanks for sharing 
   your opinions, even if they were slightly misinformed.  Next time you 
   try to teach a bible lesson you might want to read the whole chapter.

No, this is not the case.  David was for all practicle purposes
trespassing.  The fact that he didn't burn and pilliage on sight of
Nabal's property does not give him entitlement to anything.  How
exactly did David offer "hospitality" to Nabal on Nabal's own
property?  Why do you think that Nabal owed David anything?  Granted,
there was no call to be insulting, but that was certainly Nabal's
right.

Thank you, but I have read the whole chapter.  I also spent an hour
(well, 40 minutes) listening to some idiot ramble about how insulted
David was.  The fact is, this is very typical of alot (maybe not most)
of christians.  Your unsolicited courtesy does not entitle you to
other people's property, or even their thanks.

Better luck next week.

-dennis
--
Dennis Gray, Jr.                                        DGray@uh.edu
"You askin' to become a pile of zeros?  I could put you away so good
that Peter Norton couldn't find you with his arms unfolded."
			  - Lincoln Spector
Xref: sparky alt.atheism:25365 talk.religion.misc:25540
From: ano@csug.cs.reading.ac.uk (Adrian Ogden)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism,talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Why? (was Re: THE MIND OF THE BIBLE BELIEVER)
Date: 8 Jan 93 12:52:13 GMT
Distribution: world,public
Organization: University of Reading

mlee@post.RoyalRoads.ca (Malcolm Lee) writes:

>Without free will, we are just robots.  God already has the angels to do
>His every whim.  God intended much more for us.  We were meant to be His
>companions for eternity.  Could you live an eternity with someone who
>didn't want to be with you?  He wanted us to choose to live an eternity
>with Him.  He gives us that choice.  He won't force it upon us.

Giving someone the choice between staying with Him and being burned in
hell doesn't strike you as trying to force us? If He wanted to know who
was truly sincere about wanting to be with Him then why not offer a more
palatable alternative for those who don't actually love Him above all
other things but would prefer His company to being subjected to horrible
pain for all eternity?



<<  Adrian Ogden -- "Sic Biscuitus Disintegrat" -- ano@csres.cs.rdg.ac.uk  >>
Newsgroups: alt.atheism,talk.religion.misc
From: rescorla@rtnmr.chem.yale.edu (Eric Rescorla)
Subject: Re: THE MIND OF THE BIBLE BELIEVER
Organization: Rescorla for himself.
Distribution: world,public
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 00:47:21 GMT

In article <1ivns5INNot6@lindy.Stanford.EDU> charlie@lindy.Stanford.EDU (Charlie Channel) writes:
>The illustration misperceives the events.  It's more akin to me
>telling my teengers to enjoy themselves in the house while I'm on a 2
>day holiday, but instructing them to stay out of my booze.  Everything
>else in the pad is OK and within limits.  My Coors and Gallo ain't.
>
>Now, some would blame me for leaving the booze in the house and others
>might blame me for leaving the teenagers in the house.  Personally,
>I'd not leave either the booze or the teenagers in the house if
>I didn't think they had the capacity to (1) understand and (2)
>obey.  Moreover, I trust my children and they seem to have been able
>to make it through a weekend without abusing the priviledges they've
>earned, i.e., they've behaved responsibly and I trust that they
>can be relied upon.  I just can't imagine that God is less trusting
>than I am or other responsible parents.  Now, my parents could and did
>trust me in the same way I trust my children.  But, not all parents
>are created equal.  
But this is where the analogy goes badly wrong. God allegedly is
omniscient and therefore KNEW that Adam and Eve would disobey.

-Ekr

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric Rescorla, DoD#431 (Nighthawk S)              rescorla@rtnmr.chem.yale.edu
Former chemist now CM400 mechanic                 ekr@eitech.com(preferred)
                        Don't believe anything you hear.
From: mlee@post.RoyalRoads.ca (Malcolm Lee)
Subject: Re: Why? (was Re: THE MIND OF THE BIBLE BELIEVER)
Organization: Royal Roads Military College, Victoria, B.C.
Distribution: world,public
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 17:48:00 GMT


In article <C0GqGn.CwF@acsu.buffalo.edu>, v22964qs@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Mike Cluff) writes:
|> In article <1993Jan6.222140.4549@ra.royalroads.ca>, mlee@post.RoyalRoads.ca (Malcolm Lee) writes...
|> 
|> [My points on God's "stacking the deck" deleted for brevity]
|> 
|> >I hear what you're saying.  This view only holds true if you accept the predestiny
|> >view, that there are those who will be saved and those who will not and that 
|> >there is nothing that can change that.  
|> 
|> As you mention later in your reply, predestination only makes sense when one
|> is locked by time.  However, God supposedly gave us free will knowing fully that
|> some people would "abuse" that free will.  Why?  Why would he even care?  Why
|> would he not make himself absolutely, positively available to all of us if 
|> such important things as our eternal souls lie in the balance?  Remember, if 
|> god is omniscient, he knew that people would sin even as he was creating the 
|> universe.  Doesn't this strike you as odd?
|> 
Without free will, we are just robots.  God already has the angels to do His every whim.  God intended much more for us.  We were meant to be His companions for eternity.  Could you live an eternity with someone who didn't want to be with you?  He wanted us to choose to live an eternity with Him.  He gives us that choice.  He won't force it upon us.  The truth of the matter is is that if everybody knew that their souls were in the balance, I think most if not all people would become Christian.  Truth is, m



ost people don't believe this.

I don't think that it's so hard for people to believe that there is a God out
there who is loving and willing to accept them into Heaven.  Truth is, I think people DON'T WANT to believe that there is a God.  The ramifications of the
existence of an omniscient being are beyond what most people are willing to accept.  It is also contrary to what our modern society has ingrained upon us.  We have been programmed by society to be self-reliant and wealthy, if at all possible and at any cost.  One would have to set these things aside in order to become a faithful Christian.


|> >What is there that prevents you from being a Christian?
|> 
|> Probably my sensory nature.
|> 
|> >Money is not a requirement.  Fame is not a requirement.  A humble heart is.
|> 
|> I certainly don't have the first two :-)...  Can one be humble without 
|> being a Christian?
|> 
|> ******************************************************************************
|> For God so loved the world that He gave Man Free Will and then got pissed when
|> we didn't meet his arbitrary standards.  Oh, and he had his Son offed when he
|> realized how impossible those standards were.  -- Michael 4:23
|> ******************************************************************************
Anyone can be humble.  For a Christian, it is a prerequisite.
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
From: house@helios.usq.EDU.AU (ron house)
Subject: Re: I still wouldn't worship it.
Organization: University of Southern Queensland
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 03:05:34 GMT

In article <jfelder-311292094328@latvia.lerc.nasa.gov> jfelder@lerc.nasa.gov (James L. Felder) writes:
}You would really believe there is a God just because gravity got turned off
}for a few seconds?  Not me.  How would I know that this entity is really a
}"God" and not just some powe tripper from the next solar system whose
}technology blows mine clean out of the water.

Surely, any being that acts like a super-powerful being can NOT be god,
for that very reason.  God is outside time and space, so anything that acts
in a material fashion within t&s cannot be god.  Therefore the behaviour
described above would prove to me that it was not god.

--

Ron House.                 USQ
(house@helios.usq.edu.au)  Toowoomba, Australia.
Newsgroups: alt.atheism