HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: lallo@stsci.edu (Matthew D. Lallo,622,4577)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: F1: Honda
Date: 27 Jul 92 14:27:06 GMT
Reply-To: lallo@stsci.edu
Organization: Space Telescope Science Institute, Baltimore MD


This is the second posting in the series of two for which I am serving
as a liaison for someone without internet access. I will collect followups
and replies and see that he gets them.

Matt


Subj:  Honda                   

IMHO,

I thnk pulling out now is a humiliating and devastating action on the part of
Honda, especially for the Japanese.  They deifiy the sport of F1 as well as
any Japanese component of it.  

Fow example, Honda plans to release a mid-engined sports car called the
Satoru, after the less than noteworthy F1 driver Satoru Nakajima, the first
F1 driver of Japanese ancestry.  Furthermore, skimming through the pages of a
Japanese magazine you'll find Cartoon Superheroes bulging with muscles,
embazoned with the Honda "H" on their sinewed chests, standing next to
similar, heroically charicaturized McLaren-Honda F1 cars.  Honda's prior
domination of F1 is literally the stuff of legend in Japan.  

A withdrawal now, I feel, would leave the Japanese (as well as McLaren Honda
fans in general) felling cheated or "sold-out".  No one
stays on top forever, I think Ferrari is the quintessential example of that,
but pulling out completely at the first sight of a raindrop seems
unsportsmanlike and  cowardly.  I think the fans would much rather see their
team struggling, trying to regain supremacy rather than simply quitting when
the going got tough.  

Granted I'm not Honda's Chief Financial Officer, and their may be some
legitimate financial reasons for the withdrawal, but it just seems to me that
if small teams like Leyton House and Footwork manage to make it from race to
race Honda could easily do the same.

Comment/flames?
From: dxandy@cs.widener.edu (Andrew Greenshields)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Some First Qualifying Session News
Date: 24 Jul 1992 15:42:42 -0400
Organization: Widener University CS Department, Chester PA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: sonja.cs.widener.edu

  Just got this off the BBC World Serice:

  Mansell is 1.99 seconds ahead of Senna and 2.2 seconds ahead of
Patrese.  Berger is next, then Schumacher, Alesi, Brundle and I think
Boutsen then Capelli.  The BBC gave them all out of order... I think
it was intended to be an exercise for the listener to figure out who
was where.  No times, sorry.

-- 
  Andrew J. Greenshields N3IGS    |  Some people can tell what time it is by
  dxandy@cs.widener.edu           |  looking at the Sun, but I have never been
  dxandy@cyber.widener.edu        |  able to make out the numbers.
-----------------------***STANDARD DISCLAIMERS APPLY***------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: jcsmith@eos.ncsu.edu (Jay C. Smith)
Subject: Mario and Little Al go Sea-Dooing (was Re: Whats Mario's excuse?)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 19:43:47 GMT

In article <BrnzCv.nC@acsu.buffalo.edu> fleck@sybil.cs.Buffalo.EDU 
(richard j fleck) writes:
>What is it with Mario and the rear of other drivers cars?

I don't know, but while we're speaking of Mario and Little Al....

From the July IndyCar Racing "Pit Talk":

"Al Unser Jr. stopped by the Newman/Haas motorcoach in Detroit to see how
the recovery was going.  'We are still going "Sea-Dooing" after New
Hampshire, aren't we?' Unser Jr. asked.  'Absolutely,' replied Mario."

What the heck is "Sea-Dooing"?

--
Jay C. Smith
Domain/internet: jcsmith@eos.ncsu.edu  uucp: ...!mcnc!ncsuvx!eos!jcsmith
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Good.  For a minute I thought we were in trouble."

Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: lallo@stsci.edu (Matthew D. Lallo,622,4577)
Subject: Re: Senna
Reply-To: lallo@stsci.edu
Organization: Space Telescope Science Institute, Baltimore MD
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 21:07:59 GMT

In article 1140@fs7.ece.cmu.edu, mayor@bayes.ece.cmu.edu (Gilberto S. Mayor) writes:

> After all Senna is 3 times WC. Last race Patrese with a faster car could
> not pass him. Mansell had a lot of trouble trying to pass him. Why can't
> you just think one time that the simple reason is that he is better
> driver than both Mansel and Patrese ? Maybe it is a too deep answer for
> your mind.
> 
> 
> Gilberto ( I even don't have an american driver license)


No Gilberto, actually Senna may be "better' (whatever that means at the level
we're talking about) but I don't know. I have no way of knowing who is better.
I'm not even sure what the question means in this context. If you ask me if
I think that Prost is a better driver than Nakajima I can say "most likely"
but at the best of the best level, who knows?

Anyway the only thing I wanted to point out is how these guys are put on this 
podium of superhumanity by people like Pinto. 

Matt
From: jaslow@bissun.kodak.com (Russell Jaslow)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Honda out of F1 (Looks Official)
Date: 31 Jul 92 16:10:32 GMT
Organization: Eastman Kodak

In article <pod.712455659@suite.sw.oz.au> pod@suite.sw.oz.au (Paul O'Donnell) writes:
>
>This gets me thinking, what happens if you have an incident near the end
>of the race and lose a wing but decide to soldier on rather than finish?
>At scrutineering, you are a couple of kilos underweight because of the
>missing bits.  Are you disqualified?
>
I can't speak for all sanctioning bodies, but in the SCCA, yes you would be
illegal.  This issue comes up occasionally (expecially with large bore prod.
cars that lose a whole body piece in an accident which can weigh quite a bit,
but are able to finish) and the issue always gets appealed.  The bottom line
is the car must be legal when it enters impound.  They may call it "as raced"
condition, and if something happens during the race, then it is being raced
in that condition.  This also applies to ride height and other types of 
measurements which may change due to incidents on the race track.
-- 
Russell Jaslow          | Spec Racer #33  Finger Lakes Region | My employer
Eastman Kodak Company   |     In memorium: Andrew Spiller     | has nothing
Rochester, New York     |       Cynthia Bishop Halstead       | to do with
jaslow@bissun.kodak.com | Keep the damn drunks off our roads! | my drivel.
From: pete@minster.york.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: F1 thoughts
Date: 24 Jul 92 09:53:34 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of York, England
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

taylor@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Ross Taylor,Peyt312,6652,2655436) writes:
: 
: Togother they make up the oldest team in F1.  The oldest driver
: in last years lineup was Piquet (17/8/52). The next oldest was Nakajima, then
: Prost.  Of those driving this year, the oldest other than those above
: is Alboreto (1956).

Mere youngsters! I forget the precise numbers but at one point in the
late Forties the Alfa Romeo team had three drivers with a combined age
of over 130, and Talbot had three drivers with a combined age of about
143... (that's an average of about 47 years old...) [Ref: Mike
Lawrence, Grand Prix Cars 1945-65]

pete
--
*Peter Fenelon -- Research Associate -- Software Safety Assessment Procedures*
Dept. of Computer Science, University of York, York, Y01 5DD (+44/0)904 433388
EMAIL: pete@minster.york.ac.uk `There's no room for enigmas in built up areas'
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: lallo@stsci.edu (Matthew D. Lallo,622,4577)
Subject: Re: F1: Mansell's moment and Frank's Patrese co
Reply-To: lallo@stsci.edu
Organization: Space Telescope Science Institute, Baltimore MD
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 17:57:23 GMT

In article 4778@sersun1.essex.ac.uk, aghao@sersun2.essex.ac.uk (Aghanya O A) writes:

> If they 
> were indeed as scathing as some people have suggested, then I would lose quite
> a lot of the great respect I have for FW.  Still, I will reserve judgment on 
> that one until I get AUTOSPORT tomorrow.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> 	Obi.


Obi- I hope I didn't imply in an earlier post that Frank had made scathing remarks 
about Patrese, but when asked how he felt for Riccardo, he simply said his team
"could have had 4 points and now we have none, what more can I say?".
Pretty cold, but really only telling when you combine it with his previous inability
to say anything positive about Riccardo's driving *all* year. People can deny it
all they want. There is something going on with those two and it ain't pretty.

I remember distinctly the first race of the season with a Willimas 1,2 finish. 
Frank was holding Nigel in high acclaim when Andrew Marriot (ESPN's buffoon pit
reporter) asked if Frank was also not impressed with Riccardo. Frank replied
something like "yes I think everyone on the team should be praised" or something
to that effect.
From: wilson@mailhost.aa.cad.slb.com (David Wilson)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Mansell, Michael, . . . (German GP spoilers)
Date: 31 Jul 92 15:31:53 GMT
Organization: Schlumberger CAD/CAM; Ann Arbor, Michigan (USA)

In article <14935@suns502.crosfield.co.uk> pdg@crosfield.co.uk (paul goffin) writes:
>
>... Mansell had to get past Senna. ...

Just to toss more sheer speculation into the pot, consider the mist of oil
that Mansell was sitting in while stuck behind Senna.  I recall Mansell
discarding a tear-off very shortly upon arriving on Senna's tail.  Did
anyone else catch that, or was it my imagination?

A driver starts the race with just so many tear-offs.  When they're used
up, the poor bastard will be driving blind.  The McLaren "oiling" has been
brought up before, but I don't think we give enough emphasis to how much
harder poor visibility makes an overtaker's job.  Try driving your own
car with crud smeared all over your sunglasses, and then just try to
imagine (although I don't think we really can) what that's like when driving
a car at its limit.  (Please don't try the experiment anywhere near me or
mine, though).

Another thing to watch for when you replay your tapes -- does it appear to
you (as it does to me) that Senna slices in to his apexes noticeably more
viciously when someone is trying to overtake than he does when not being
challenged?  I firmly believe he does that to deliberately intimidate the
other drivers.  Just watch him, and form your own opinion.  Since tangling
with open-wheeled cars can result in crippling or fatal injuries, Senna
systematically "tells" every other driver out there "screw around with me,
and I will kill you".  

Dave Wilson
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: winalski@adserv.enet.dec.com (Paul S. Winalski)
Subject: Re: Boo Boo Senna (German GP minor spoiler)
Reply-To: winalski@adserv.enet.dec.com (Paul S. Winalski)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation, Nashua NH
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 17:44:14 GMT


In article <1992Jul27.000949.24693@cc.uow.edu.au>,
ddd@cc.uow.edu.au (David Dodds) writes:
|>
|>>   It seems that if Senna does not look to have a competitive car next
|>>year he is going to seriously consider retiring for a season.  I ask all
|>>of Senna's fans: Do you still think he is the best driver in the world
|>>or just maybe it is a 3 time WC because of great cars?
|>
|>After watching the German GP do you still think Senna is the 3 time
|>world champion just because of his car ? (Don't think so)

There's no question that the Senna/Patrese fight showed who is the better
driver.  Senna defended his position brilliantly, despite an attack from a
driver in a clearly faster car.

|>See how the Williams drivers behaved under pressure ?

DriverS??  Mansell ran away with the race and Senna never even got close to
him.  We never got to see how Mansell behaved under pressure because he
never was under any.

--PSW
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: noralf@Lise.Unit.NO (Arve Noralf Lund)
Subject: Re: Unser Jr/IMSA/PDX
Organization: Norwegian Institute of Technology
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 11:14:34 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.034945.26829@uwm.edu>, naze@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Daniel J Naze) writes:
 > In article <1992Jul21.145106.26765@ncube.com> bob@ncube.com (Bob Kehoe) writes:
 > >Al Unser Jr. will drive one of Tom Milner's '91 Chevrolet
 > >Intrepid GTPs at Portland this coming weekend.
 > >
 > >The car will be prepped by Scandia Motorsports in Redmond,
 > >Washington and is sponsored by Scandia, Norwegian Cruise
 > >Lines and General Rent a Car.
 > >-cannonball-
 > >
 > 
 >   I was under the impression that "Scandia" was just the team name, is
 > Scandia some kind of company?  If so, what is the product?
 > 
 > Dan Naze
 > 
    
  
There is a swedish insurance company called "Scandia", 
but I don't know if there are any connections.

-- Arve Lund
From: csroach@eng.clemson.edu (Shane Roach)
Subject: Re: McLaren Engines
Organization: Clemson University
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 17:20:03 GMT

From article <Jul.24.13.02.56.1992.24260@tastesgreat.rutgers.edu>, by boubez@tastesgreat.rutgers.edu (Toufic Boubez):
> 
>>>3. Nissan
>>They have a 3.5l v-12 built, but they swear they are not going to use
>>it for F1. My guess is that the engine is too new. It is probably
>>too heavy and lacking in power. If they did enter maybe they would
>>use this as an oppurtunity to sell the infinities. I want to see
>>them enter F1. I hope they do someday.
>>>4. Toyota
>>I have been hearing things about Toyota entering F1 for years. The
>>talk stopped when turbos were outlawed. I have not heard much about
>>a normally aspirated engine from these guys.
> 
> Both companies have been doing quite well with their normally aspirated
> engines (eg in IMSA).
> 
> 
> toufic
  
The Nissan 3.5l V12 is currently in use only in the Japanese Sports Prototype
Championship(or whatever it's called), but will appear in IMSA in the 1993
NPTI car(Sorry, forgot the designation).  A Japanese Nissan team using the 3.5
won the Daytona 24 Hours this year, but they didn't get any points for it, 
although Nissan did get an excuse to blow their trumpet.

As for the Toyota atmo 3.5l V10, it's only raced in the WSC.  I don't look to
see it in IMSA anytime soon.
  

Shane Roach
csroach@eng.clemson.edu
From: Kenneth_Ferguson@rand.org (Ken Ferguson)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: McDuffie suit: NASCAR/Glen
Date: 27 Jul 92 19:49:18 GMT
     <1992Jul27.180125.11570@rdg.dec.com>
Organization: RAND
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1a2



         Being reletivly new to car racing many will think that I have no
place to comment on this post. But after 25 years of motorcycle racing I
feel this gives me the right 
to point out a few facts.

          First of all I have been seriously injured more than 18 times,
10 times 
critically. My first crash came in a road racing accident that broke 6
vertabrae
in my back. In another I broke my neck and was confined to a wheelchair
for 
2 years. Without getting too specific or graphic, I think I should tell
you that
in each case it was my own fault.

         In every crash I was involved in "I" made a minor or serious
mistake
either I thought I could take a turn faster than usual or try a different
line on the track that nobody else had even tried. Is'nt this afterall
what
racing is all about?


          I have seen the same type of injuries occur with other riders
invloved and 
they end up sueing the track owners or promoters. Needless to say this
is not very conducive to the growth of the sport,which by the way has
witnessed
a rapid decline in available riding and practicing areas. 

       Let's just hope that this is'nt a harbinger of things to come for
the
entire auto racing industry. 

         Ken Ferguson CAMPIONE RACING
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: cornutt@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov (David Cornutt)
Subject: Re: WC Mfg's Points & Talladega Controversy
Organization: NASA/MSFC
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 20:03:10 GMT

dafuller@sequent.com (David Fuller) writes:

>In article <tlm1.712288654@Ra.MsState.Edu> tlm1@Ra.MsState.Edu (Terry Matula) writes:
>>bob@ncube.com (Bob Kehoe) writes:
>>I just saw a local news report showing that Sterling Marlin and his
>>crew chief Mike Beam were very angry about Ricky Rudd's drafting of
>>Ernie Irvan at the end of the race.  Their contention was that Rudd should
>>have moved aside and let Marlin by to challenge for the win (Rudd was
>>a lap down to the leaders).  A quick sound bite from Rudd was "<big grin>,
>>No comment."  

>I think Mike Beam got snookered.

Well, let's see... if Rudd had been going a little bit slower, would
Marlin have thanked him for holding Irvan up?  NOT!  At the end,
Rudd was just about as fast as the leaders, he was competing for a
position himself, and besides, Rudd (a Chevy driver) has no obligation
to help out Marlin (a Ford driver).  Yes, Marlin and Beam did get
snookered, but they've had it coming for a long time; they are well-
known for screwing people on drafting deals.  Did you notice that
Larry McReynolds was dealing with Tony Glover instead of Beam?  In
the U.N. of WC racing, Marlin and Beam just got an international
censure.  You just got a demonstration of how and why Sterling
Marlin will never win a WC race.

-- 
David Cornutt, New Technology Inc., Huntsville, AL  (205) 461-6457
(cornutt@freedom.msfc.nasa.gov; some insane route applies)
"The opinions expressed herein are not necessarily those of my employer,
not necessarily mine, and probably not necessary."
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: brims@bnkl01.astro.ucla.edu (George Brims)
Subject: Re: Late to the track II - Hakkinen
Date: 30 Jul 92 09:53:16 PDT

In article <mm7fmf@Unify.Com> perry@Unify.Com (Perry Clarke) writes:

>
>I wonder if there is any truth to the rumor that the first thing the
>traffic cop who caught Senna doing 125 MPH was:
>
>  "Who do you think you are?  Nigel Mansel?"

Absolutely none. British traffic cops always ask you

"Who do you think you are? Stirling Moss?"

except if you're in Scotland where it's sometimes Jackie Stewart.

Believe me I know... 8^( 

George Brims 


Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: taylor@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Ross Taylor,Peyt312,6652,2655436)
Subject: Mansell's handling problems ?
Organization: Clarkson University
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 11:32:58 GMT

I haven't seen any comments about this so here goes.

Yesterday morning (US Eastern time) a friend grom GB told me on the
telephone that Mansell had serious handling problems for a lot of the
race.  Very bad vibrations that caused him to slow down so that he
could see where he was going.  That's why Senna and Patrese were able
to close up so much at the end and, perhaps, why Mansell did not pull
out as much a lead as he has in the past.

Anyone got any more details?

Ross Taylor

Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: afinlayson@kean.ucs.mun.ca
Subject: Re: NASCAR Pocono - DA vs DW
Organization: Memorial University. St.John's Nfld, Canada
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 02:01:32 GMT

In article <1992Jul26.190100.29030@ra.msstate.edu>, fowler@cvmmdl2.msstate.edu (Stephanie Fowler) writes:
> 
> In article <92205.145303MREED@UCF1VM.BITNET>, <MREED@UCF1VM.BITNET> writes:
>> 
>>  After following this discussion that seems to involve 2
>>  distinct opinions, that being DA did xxxxxx and DW did
>>  xxxxxx. Is it possible that DA whom I admittedly do not
>>  care for is no different from those 1000's of road going
>>  morons we've all encountered at some time who think they
>>  are the only car on the road/track that change lanes
>>  right in front of you when your obviously moving much
>>  faster than them (or just slam into the side of you in
>>  my case).  These same people seem to think that mirrors
>>  on cars are just for decoration, fixing hair, or checking
>>  out the babe in the car behind you at a stop light.
>> 
>>                                  Mike
>> 
>> 
> 
> I just watched Bobby Allison's response to what transpired and am in complete 
> disbelief.  How soon he forgets about incidents with Ernie Irvan and Kyle 
> Petty earlier this season!!!  In my opinion the same thing happened at Pocono.
> DA tried to block Kyle Petty at the finish line in the Winston just as he did
> DW at Pocono.  So where does his father get off laying the blame on DW.  Darrell 
> Waltrip has never been involved in an incident that warrents whats being 
> dealt to him now.  Certainly DA would not have wanted such treatment if Irvan
> had been injured at Michigan due to his lack of concern for the other
> cars on the track.  Here's a thought,  what if it had been the King rather
> than Ernie?(or anyone but "Swervin' Irvan")  Come on Davey, be man enough to 
> quiet the storm.  At least confirm Neil Bonnet's statement that it was just
> racing.  
> 
> 
> Steph
From: wilson@mailhost.aa.cad.slb.com (David Wilson)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Lafitte (was Re: Miscellaneous Ramblings)
Date: 27 Jul 92 16:06:35 GMT
Organization: Schlumberger CAD/CAM; Ann Arbor, Michigan (USA)

In article <1992Jul24.065512.16422@neptune.inf.ethz.ch> marti@nugget.inf.ethz.ch (Robert Marti) writes:
>
>As an aside, there are quite a few former F1 drivers who
>compete in the German Touring Car Championship, some of
>whom have been reasonably successful in F1:
>
>Keke Rosberg  (F1 champ 1982)
>Jacques Lafitte  (several GP wins)
> ...

Every time the announcers mention how much deeper Patrese has buried
the record for GP's started, I wonder what happened to Lafitte.  Wasn't
he hurt at the start of the race that would have let him take the
record away from Graham Hill?  (The crash caused a red flag, so the
race was restarted, denying him credit for having started in that
event, as I recall.)

Anyone know his condition?  Did he recover fully?  How is he doing?

Dave Wilson
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: olin@cheme.tn.cornell.edu (Steve Thompson)
Subject: Re: ABS on F1 cars?
Reply-To: olin@cheme.tn.cornell.edu
Organization: Cornell University School of Chemical Engineering
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 12:30:48 GMT

In article <eur.712569010@dutncp8>, eur@dutncp2.tn.tudelft.nl (Eur van Andel) writes:
>Dear race fans
>
>Does anyone know why F1 cars (or C cars, or F3000) don't have ABS?
>I see their wheels lock up all the time, loosing grip and
>spinning cars off the track, as Patrese demonstrated vividly
>last week in Germany.
>
>Is it too dangerous? Will they go even faster?
>But why is this feature implemented on every standard Shatsubazu GLT 3000 RX
>and not on these superb racing engines?
>
>Anyone?
>
>eur

ABS does nothing whatsoever to shorten ultimate braking distances. It
just makes it easier for the average driver to stop closer to the
shortest possible distance without losing steering control. It won't
help if you have braked far too late anyway (and on the inside line,
a la Patrese).

Steve

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Thompson, System Mangler   Internet: thompson@cheme.tn.cornell.edu
School of Chemical Engineering   Bitnet:   thompson@crnlchme
Olin Hall, Cornell University    Phone:    (607) 255 5573
Ithaca NY 14853
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: bob@ncube.com (Bob Kehoe)
Subject: Unser Jr/IMSA/PDX
Organization: nCUBE Computers, Beaverton, Oregon, U.S.A.
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 14:51:06 GMT

Al Unser Jr. will drive one of Tom Milner's '91 Chevrolet
Intrepid GTPs at Portland this coming weekend.

The car will be prepped by Scandia Motorsports in Redmond,
Washington and is sponsored by Scandia, Norwegian Cruise
Lines and General Rent a Car.

It will carry one of ESPN's in-car cameras.  Also, ESPN's
Speedweek will be broadcast from Portland Saturday.

-cannonball-
From: dxandy@cs.widener.edu (Andrew J. Greenshields N3IGS)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Thoughts on Germany
Date: 27 Jul 1992 17:17:47 -0500
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu




-- 
  Andrew J. Greenshields N3IGS    |  Some people can tell what time it is by
  dxandy@cs.widener.edu           |  looking at the Sun, but I have never been
  dxandy@cyber.widener.edu        |  able to make out the numbers.
-----------------------***STANDARD DISCLAIMERS APPLY***------------------------