HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: allanc@cs.su.oz.au (Restless Wanderer)
Subject: Re: AUS vs Springboks
Reply-To: allanc@cluster.cs.su.oz (Restless Wanderer)
Organization: Basser Dept of Computer Science, University of Sydney, Australia
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 23:41:54 GMT

I would like to be able to get hold of the official program from
the upcoming test,would some kind soul PLEASE purchase one for me.
I will pay the cost of postage and the program,or am willing to 
reciprocate when the Bok's tour Aus next year.

In anticipation,thanks
allanc

Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
From: Nick.Guoth@anu.edu.au (Nick Guoth)
Subject: NSWRU & NZRFU Results
Organization: Research School of Chemistry, ANU
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 92 08:42:21 GMT

Hi all!

I've split the post this week as I'm in at work on Sunday and have all the results.
First, my comments on the test.  I felt that the All-blacks played reasonably well,
but not to what we have expected of them.  I agree that they let the Boks get back
into the game, but this may have been through the problem they have been having
lately with endurance. One thing I couldn't help laughing about was that of the
different interpretations about lifting in the lineouts.  After seeing the first Australian
match on the box and seeing that both sides were able to lift players as they
wished, it was interesting to see Sandy McNicoll (sp), the Aussie referee, penalize
the Boks for doing just that. I think it would be wise for each of the sides before going 
into next week's encounter to check with the referee about his interpretation about
this rule (I don't know who will be refereeing, as it can't be McNicoll).

NSWRU

Southern Districts 23  Western Suburbs 21
Warringah 38  Manly 25
Randwick 30  Sydney Uni 18
Eastwood 31  Parramatta 13
Gordon 53  Drummoyne 14
Northern Suburbs 31  Eastern Suburbs 18

Table: (The paper said this was the final table, but I thought there was one more round left)
35 Gordon
32 Randwick
27 Wests
26 Sydney Uni
25 Warringah
22 Eastwood, Easts
20 Norths
17 S. Dists
12 Manly
11 Parramatta
3 Drummoyne

NZRFU:
Division 1
North Harbour 30 Otago 8
Wellington 17 Auckland 9  :-) :-)
North Auckland 24 Canterbury 16
King Country 22 Hawkes Bay 9

nick...
From: higham@waikato.ac.nz
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: David Cam-Pussy
Date: 17 Aug 92 14:51:43 +1200
Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand

> challenge on Saturday.
>     Lastly, did anyone see the sign that greeted one of the Wallabies at
> the Northern Transvaal game the other day? It read "David Cam-PUSSY". Even
> the Aussie commentator said Cam-PUSSY instead of Campese early in the game.
> 
> Rob

Campo had the last laugh though eh, scoring two tries! There are some funny
placards around, its usually the good players that get the harsh ones. I like
Campo, he is a great player and you get the feeling he is really enjoying
himself and not taking it all seriously, or at least as seriously as some.
Quite refreshing.
-- 
Tom Higham,		        "If ever somethin' don't feel right to you,     
Radiocarbon Dating Lab,	        remember what Pancho said to the Cisco Kid:
University of Waikato,	        'Let's went, before we are dancing at the
Hamilton,		        end of a rope, without music.'"  
NEW ZEALAND.		                   Sailor Ripley, "wild at heart".
Higham@waikato.ac.nz
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Those songs & anthems.
From: wft@math.canterbury.ac.nz (Bill Taylor)
Date: 18 Aug 92 12:17:02 +1200
Distribution: world
Organization: Department of Mathematics, University of Canterbury

I hadn't realized that there had been an explicit agreement NOT to play anthems,
(or at least the SA anthem), at the test. This makes the South African 
behaviour far worse than I thought.

To be fair, one can't blame the crowd for the playing of the SA anthem over the
speaker system ! Still, what an incredible looney there must have been in the
administration of the match, to have made this inexcusible blunder of bad faith.
His head should roll.  Who was he ?  Has his head rolled ?

I can imagine an excuse that would be given - that it would be an insult to the
NZ team not to play our anthem, and that then to be fair, they should play
both. But, if the non-playing agreement had been made in advance, (which doesn't
seem to be in dispute), then the AB management would have known and agreed to it;
I'm sure there would have been no objection by our players or administraters. We
would have had no problem with such an agreement; but as it is now we *also* are
slightly tarred by this brush of bad faith. Is that what the SARFU intended
towards its guests ?

Several SA netters have commented that one may object to the ANC on grounds
other than racism. Very true; we should not forget this point, and thanks are
due to those who made the point, (very politely too, when you consider how they
feel so strongly about it). Nonetheless, it must be clear to the even most naive
of SA citizens that this was *NOT* the right time to express such objections, in
song, or any other way. Disgraceful. The silence was due to the dead, NOT the ANC.

Someone has predicted that the next world cup looks increasingly unlikely to be
played in SA. I must say it does seem so.  A pity in many ways.  But, if this
kind of thing is likely to occur again, perhaps it's best all round to shift it.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
            Bill Taylor              wft@math.canterbury.ac.nz 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------



Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
From: davidnz@leland.Stanford.EDU (David Richard Bell)
Subject: A little less reality
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 21:08:16 GMT


OK Nick, fair's fair. I guess SA did perform pretty well under the 
circumstances. As for my backing the Aussies - as a Kiwi this is a very 
tough call to make. Perhaps I was temporarily insane? Who knows? Anyway I 
still feel that the AB's were pretty unlucky in Australia and the current
Aussie team, while World Champs and a very good side,  have yet to 
dominate the opposition like their predecessors - the 1987 AB World Champs.

In short, I have more faith in the ability of the AB's than in the ability of
the Aussies to beat SA. Anyway we'll see what happens,

cheers
David B.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
From: singletn@eagle.larc.nasa.gov (Jeff Singleton)
Subject: Re: RUGBY MAGAZINE
Followup-To: rec.sport.rugby
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center - Hampton, VA USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 15:02:37 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.115745.6538@schbbs.mot.com>,
A22494@waccvm.corp.mot.com (Jerry Bonanno) wrote:
> 
> DOES ANYBODY HAVE THE ADDRESS OF A RUGBY MAGAZINE THAT I CAN SUBSCRIBE
> TO, I PLAY RUGBY UNION IN ARIZONA
> 
> THANKS
> JERRY

   Rugby

   1 year, 11 issues,  $28 US

   The Rugby Press, Ltd.
   2350 Broadway
   New York, NY 10024


      enjoy,

         jeff singleton

         Newport News RFC
From: higham@waikato.ac.nz
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: All Blacks vs South Africa
Date: 17 Aug 92 09:19:28 +1200
Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand

Interesting to see in that South African newspaper report nothing about the
disgraceful 1 minute silence planned for the start of the test in memory of the
deaths in the republic and for future peace. I found it extremely sad and
distasteful that large sections of the crowd ignored the silence and sang some
Boer anthem instead. For christs sake. And there is no excuse that the size of
the crowd precluded such an observance taking place, I've seen much bigger
stadiums than Ellis park stay quiet (Wembley stadium for example). What a slap
in the face for Nelson Mandela sitting in the stands, a continuation of a long
tradition of total insensitivity and racism to the majority of South Africas
people. 
I hope that the ANC says right, fuck you, if you guys don't play fair we'll
make the Wallabies take the next flight home and it'll be bye bye Newlands next
Saturday. I thought even those crass rugby fans of South Africa could see that
its in their best interests to play ball with the black majority rather than
cynically slap them in the face. I reckon laboratory rats show more
understanding of principles of reward/punishment theories than the many of the
fans I saw at Ellis PArk on Saturday.
What do the South African subscribers to this group feel about this? 

Also I was astounded at the utter lack of perception shown by the TVNZ
commentators at the game. Macbeth said, "and now we'll have a minutes silence
for victims of the violence in South Africa and for future peace here", and
then when the whole thing flopped 5-10 seconds later, away we go into the NZ
national anthem and not a word from Stu or John, oh no. I suppose they wouldn't
want to cast a pall upon the greatness of the moment, the history of the time.
I couldn't help thinking what a load of bullshit it all was. 

-- 
Tom Higham,		        "If ever somethin' don't feel right to you,     
Radiocarbon Dating Lab,	        remember what Pancho said to the Cisco Kid:
University of Waikato,	        'Let's went, before we are dancing at the
Hamilton,		        end of a rope, without music.'"  
NEW ZEALAND.		                   Sailor Ripley, "wild at heart".
Higham@waikato.ac.nz
From: dekock@shannon.ee.wits.ac.za (Nick de Kock)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Re: Australia beat N.T.
Date: 19 Aug 92 09:01:22 GMT
Article-I.D.: shannon.dekock.714214882
Organization: Electrical Engineering, University of the Witwatersrand

In <1992Aug17.231533.13822@cs.su.oz.au> allanc@cs.su.oz.au (Restless Wanderer) writes:

>As mentioned before ,regarding Australia's poor performance against NT..
>What exactly is the altitude at Ellis Park.?
>I somehow keep hearing that the altitude is causing havoc,yet it appears
>that we are roughly in the same altitude.

The altitude is about 1500 metres.

>Another question(NO FLAMES).
>Did any of you SA guys actually go to Ellis Park to watch the AB's.If so
>did the crowd actually sing immediately after the announcement of a minute's
>silence,or was it something else.?

I didn't actually go - there were only 4000 seats available to the general
public. The rest were sold in blocks to corporate interests who distributed
the tickets to their associates (many of whom resold them on the black
market for 10 times their face value). According to a person I spoke to
who did go: the singing of the national anthem during the 'silence' was
orchestrated by a hard core of right wingers from Krugersdorp. These
chaps defiantly burst forth into patriotic song as soon as the announcement
was made. In the confusion (and emotion) that ensued many others followed
their lead. 
>One more.....
>I didn't notice a lot of black faces at the game,is their a reason .
>Like lack of money,interest or is it political .?

Lack of money (black market tickets changed hands for thousands of rands)
and influence kept me away so I imagine it also kept blacks away (if they
were interested). Most blacks are not really interested in rugby - hist
-orically black schools generally played soccer so the interest never
developed. This is changing - I hear that the entire first team backline of St.
John's College (a posh rugby-playing school in Johannesburg) consists of
black youngters (and damn good they are too).

>Please,I don't want a flame war ,I would like to hear from 'the other side'
>apart from our media.
>Australia 28 SA 21......GO the AUSSIES..........

>Email me if you wish to save b'width.
>allanc

-- 
Nick de Kock, High Voltage Group        | Internet dekock@odie.ee.wits.ac.za    
Electrical Engineering, Wits University |                 or
Johannesburg, South Africa              |      dekock@shannon.ee.wits.ac.za
....Another Churchill quote pending...........
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
From: ccfj@hippo.ru.ac.za (F. Jacot Guillarmod)
Subject: Re: NZ vs SA prediction
Organization: Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 15:55:03 GMT

In <1992Aug14.133527.3257@otago.ac.nz> clive@otago.ac.nz (Clive Boock) writes:

>   My prediction?  All Blacks 30 (3 x converted tries, 3 x penalty)
>                   Springboks 13 (1 x converted try, 1 x penalty, 1 x dropgoal)

What really happened was:

All Blacks 27 (3 x converted tries, 2 x penalty)
Springboks 24 (3 x converted tries, 1 x penalty)

... after being 10-0 ahead at half time.  It was a difficult match to
predict, though, with one side being completely unknown and never having
played together before.

My impression (bias alert) was that the All Blacks just squeaked in -
the Boks missed a lot of chances early in the game, but were really
piling on the pressure at the end.  There were plenty of stupid
mistakes and handling errors by the Boks, but it looks like a pretty
sound team for the future - the geriatric Danie Gerber scoring two of
South Africa's tries in fine style.

Interviewed after the match, Sean Fitzpatrick said he was glad they
played this weekend, and not the next - implying the Wallabies could get
skinned ;-)

All in all a nice bit of rugby by both sides, with the All Blacks
scoring when it counted. Pity it wasn't a longer tour, but there's
always next year, and the year after...

-- 
  F.F. Jacot Guillarmod     PO  Box 94     \        |     ccfj@hippo.ru.ac.za
  Computing Centre       Grahamstown 6140   \      /     +27 461 22023 xt 284
  Rhodes University        South Africa      ;___*/   33 18 30 S | 26 31 45 E
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
From: dekock@shannon.ee.wits.ac.za (Nick de Kock)
Subject: Re: Get Real
Organization: Electrical Engineering, University of the Witwatersrand
Date: 20 Aug 92 10:07:42 GMT

In <1992Aug18.221314.25542@leland.Stanford.EDU> davidnz@leland.Stanford.EDU (David Richard Bell) writes:

>What *exactly* is the problem with you lot in SA? The AB's thumped all of your
>domestic teams and beat you in style in the test. Has it not sunk in yet?
>The AB's had an unbeaten (that's U-N-B-E-A-T-E-N) run and didn't look
>like losing. Seems like after nearly every game we have some whinger (supporter
>or Bok team captain) moaning about how they couldn't believe that they lost.

Great - finally someone talks about rugby itself. The All Blacks are a
great team. They were more polished than the Springboks on the day and
never did look like losing. But you must admit that the Springboks showed
a great deal of potential - that was their first game against the All Blacks
after an absence of more than 10 years AND they came within 3 points. Give
them a year's experience and they will be a force to be reckoned with.

Naas Botha (the SA captain) is renowned as a whinger - nevertheless he's
not the only one who was put off balance by the performance of the Australian
referee. Reportedly he was rude and evasive when asked for explanations
of his decisions - he also refused to wear the 'field ears' (a remote
microphone which allows TV viewers to hear what the ref says). Doesn't
this suggest that he intended to treat the Boks like dirt?

>If SA happen to beat Australia (and I doubt they will) - big deal. It proves
>nothing. In fact I hope Aussie thump all the SA teams in a manner similar
>to the AB's. Perhaps 2 unbeaten runs by downunder teams may convince you lot
>that Northern Hemisphere rugby is more your level.

Of course it proves something! It proves that the Boks are capable of beating
the world's best. I have a feeling that you're going to have to eat your
words. If not on Saturday then within a year. Why do you sound so nervous?

>G-E-T R-E-A-L.

>David B
-- 
Nick de Kock, High Voltage Group        | Internet dekock@odie.ee.wits.ac.za    
Electrical Engineering, Wits University |                 or
Johannesburg, South Africa              |      dekock@shannon.ee.wits.ac.za
....Another Churchill quote pending...........

Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
From: s8923098@macnab.mqcs.mq.oz.au (Josef WIDJAJA)
Subject: Re: All Blacks vs South Africa
Organization: Macquarie University, School of Mathematics, Physics, Computing and Electronics
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 01:24:51 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.091928.10124@waikato.ac.nz> higham@waikato.ac.nz writes:
|Interesting to see in that South African newspaper report nothing about the
|disgraceful 1 minute silence planned for the start of the test in memory of the
|deaths in the republic and for future peace. I found it extremely sad and
|distasteful that large sections of the crowd ignored the silence and sang some
|Boer anthem instead. For christs sake. And there is no excuse that the size of
|the crowd precluded such an observance taking place, I've seen much bigger
|stadiums than Ellis park stay quiet (Wembley stadium for example). What a slap
|in the face for Nelson Mandela sitting in the stands, a continuation of a long
|tradition of total insensitivity and racism to the majority of South Africas
|people. 

...etc...

Yeah. I didn't know there was a one minute silence until I read the paper
this morning. I thought it was strange that the crowd started singing
before the national anthems were played, and I also thought that playing
the S.A national anthem was quite offensive since it represents
opression of the Black South Africans. I am beginning to have doubts that
the 1995 World Cup will be played in South Africa.
 

--
 _________Josef Widjaja____________  
|  s8923098@mackay.mpce.mq.edu.au  |
|  Macquarie University, Australia | 
|__________________________________| 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
From: spain@galvia.enet.dec.com ()
Subject: Re: All Blacks vs Springboks
Reply-To: spain@galvia.enet.dec.com ()
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 07:59:07 GMT

--

I haven't much to add to what has been said already.  I watched the game
the game live on ITV an ddespite their poor coverage I still enjoyed a
tremendous match.  Oh for Bill McLaren.

It's great to see South Africa back in world rugby.  They can only get better.
They are still in the top 3 or 4 in the world.  

NZ just about deserved to win but given the experience of this game SA
have a great chance of beating Australia.
  
|---------------------------------------------------------------------------- |

          U.S.A. here we come

          God thinks he's Jackie Charlton

       Gary Spain, DEC, Galway, Ireland   - spain@galvia.enet.dec.com

|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
From: graham@otago.ac.nz
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: SA v NZ & World Cup
Date: 17 Aug 92 22:28:20 GMT
Organization: University of Otago, Dunedin, New Zealand


A comment:  Watched the match on TV3.  Commentators were Bill McCarthy
            and Bill McLaren with input from David Kirk.  Excellent!!!

A question: Heard someone say the next World Cup is in SA, I thought it
            was in NZ.  Where is it being held?

Thanks for replies.

Graham
From: s8923098@macnab.mqcs.mq.oz.au (Josef WIDJAJA)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Re: All Blacks vs Springboks
Date: 18 Aug 92 07:29:38 GMT
Organization: Macquarie University, School of Mathematics, Physics, Computing and Electronics

In article <SAREL.92Aug17221134@ford.ford.ee.up.ac.za> sarel@ford.ford.ee.up.ac.za (Sarel Lugtenburg) writes:

.........

|Did you perhaps watch the game on Friday - the fully fledged Wallaby
|team against a broken down Northern Transvaal team. At least you can't
|complain about the ref here (even though he was a South African). Even
|Campese himself admits that his one try was a knock-on (BTW the score
|was 24-17 for AU. The difference of one goal). In my humble opinion,
|the Wallabies were outplayed by Northern Transvaal, and only bad place
|kicking cost Northern's the game.
|
|The Springboks were a bit shaky against NZ. It was the first
|international for a lot of the players and also the first time they
|played together. We'll see on Saturday what happens when they play
|your "World Champions".
|

Nick Farr-Jones was right. South Africans are really arrogant people.
We are still World Champs until 1995, thank you very much. 
The Wallabies might be out of form at the moment with the introduction
of the new rules, but you should stop pretending that the Springboks 
are the real World Champions because they are not.

 
--
 _________Josef Widjaja____________  
|  s8923098@mackay.mpce.mq.edu.au  |
|  Macquarie University, Australia | 
|__________________________________| 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
From: s8923098@macnab.mqcs.mq.oz.au (Josef WIDJAJA)
Subject: Re: All Blacks vs South Africa
Organization: Macquarie University, School of Mathematics, Physics, Computing and Electronics
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 03:57:17 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.163728.10211@waikato.ac.nz> hist1261@waikato.ac.nz writes:
  .....
|
|I can of course hear the cries already of "he's a racist, he's a racist", but
|nevertheless I would go further and suggest the arrogance with which the ANC
|has used rugby as a political football over the last few weeks is
|reprehensible.  The only thing worse is the Australian Foreign Ministry's
|willingness to follow each and every utterance from that political movement
|as though it were the word of God.  As worthy as is the fight against
|discrimination and for political equality, surely the ANC at the end of the
|day is a political party, much like that other black group we mysteriously
|hear so little of in the New Zealand media.  To blindly follow the dictates
|of one party is hardly "democratic".

Sport has always been a political instrument in South Africa. If you notice 
the number of sporting unions that only catered for whites, then you know
why sport and apartheid are inseparable. 
  
|
|Was there any TANGIBLE damage done because the minute's silence was not
|observed?  Would the observance have brought back the thousands who have

Yes, it was a clear slap on the cheeks for millions of black South Africans.
If those who died were white, I am sure the one minute silence would have
been observed properly. What the mostly white crowds did during that one
minute silence will disrupt the slow process of reconciliation and sow the
seeds of hatred against white. 
 
|died, on both sides, due to township violence?  Perhaps such a
|political gesture was inappropriate in such a sporting context in the first
|place - particularly when it cut directly across traditions (and not wholly
|apartheid traditions either) which have been established in International
|Rugby for most of this century.
|
|Richard.
|
|


--
 _________Josef Widjaja____________  
|  s8923098@mackay.mpce.mq.edu.au  |
|  Macquarie University, Australia | 
|__________________________________| 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
From: maguire@copland.jpl.nasa.gov (Kevin Maguire)
Subject: Rugby teams in NYC/N. Jersey wanted
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory
Distribution: USA
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 19:43:56 GMT


Hello,

A friend of mine has graduated college and moved to N. Jersey to live with
relatives and work on Wall St.  He misses rugby, and would like to know of
a team in the area looking for players.

He's a little tiny guy, but he's really, really fast, and pretty mean - went
to the CT state wrestling finals in high school.

Even if you don't know of any team's contact numbers, the number for the
ERU would be appreciated so I can send him at least that.

Thanks,

Kevin Maguire

Eagle Rock AC RFC
ex-MITRFC
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby