From: lilleyc@cs.man.ac.uk (Chris Lilley)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: men's spirituality (was Re: New Pagans and Reading)
Keywords: do it thineself
Date: 28 Sep 92 19:04:24 GMT
Organization: Dept Computer Science, University of Manchester, U.K.

In article <H4JqRB3w165w@eagles.uucp> ymir@eagles.uucp (Ymir
Thunarsson) writes: 

>lilleyc@cs.man.ac.uk (Chris Lilley) (me) writes:
 
>> In article <gBXmRB2w165w@eagles.uucp> ymir@eagles.uucp (Ymir
>> Thunarsson) writes: 
 
>> >  Unfortunately, you are showing yourself to be the bigot. A highly uninform
>> >and spiteful one at that. LAY OFF! It's unbecoming and achieves
absolutely no                               ^^^^^^^^^^            
>> >purpose (except maybe to fuel your own vanity and prejudice). 

Well this to me seemed to tie in pretty well with the ongoing thread
about what women are expected to do, behave, say, etc. *Unbecoming* indeed!

To which I wrote a somewhat sarcastic reply:
 
>> Yeah, right! Ailsa - don't you realise how *unladylike* it is to point
>> out other peoples mistakes? How arrogant to present your own opinions!
>> Don't you know your *place*! And darling, it's so *unfeminine*

   [and so on - I wrote it I can delete it ;-) ]

>> Particularly when you back up your paltry arguments with mere name
>> calling, like you accuse ailsa- of doing.

Well I stand by that bit at least

>> Sure ailsa- gets rude on occasion - but unlike you, she does it with
>> STYLE.

It aint what you do its the way that you do it..

To which Ymir replied:

>Chris,

>  I guess you are right if you consider vulgarity stylish. 

Well as I said you were equally vulgar I clearly do not. Or is it only
vulgar when a woman swaers, and not when a man swears (in *your
opinion, that is)

>It would not have
>mattered to my whether this was a man or a woman. I just feel that such insults
>are unneeded and counter productive.

Sure. So why did you add to them... 

> Actually, I feel that Hulda went to far
>with her statements without a presentation of the facts that are available to
>her to work with. 

Actually, Hulda launched into a pre-prepared script on how much better
Asatru is than Garderian Wicca, which was a little low on fact and had
little to do with the topic of wimmins mysteries which draw little on
Garnerian Wicca. 

>By the way, I never claimed to be stylish myself. If people 
>want to get their kicks degrading others on this net...then I guess I don't
>belong. 

I would not go so far as to say you don't belong. On the contrary you
are most welcome - we always need new blood (as we say on Samhain ;-)

But, it was you not me using the words bigot, spiteful, vanity and
prejudice (and that just from the one sentence that appears above!).

>Most who know me would tell you I am very hard to anger and even harder
>to anger to the point of verbally "spouting off". 

Well it didn't seem like that to me. As you say I don't know you yet. 

>So as an olive branch I offer
>this: Ailsa and Chris (and any other interested parties) let's exchange some
>information about each others beliefs and practices (with refs. of
course)

Sure, fine. I can reccommend some refs on womyns mysteries should you
or Hulda want to check out how close they are to Wicca.


>while not being judgemental about the validity of the opposing belief. Perhaps
>we may learn from each other.

Yes. If you could reccommend some introductory material on Asatru I
would be most interested. Is it just a N. American thing, or
international?  I have only ever come across refs to Asatru in the
context of 'well I wouldn't reccomend that one because...'

My contact with Gremanic paganism has been skimpy and the ones over
here seem somewhat dubious - heavy tie ins with heavy people. I would
welcome some input on your particular beliefs. Also on how Asatru fits
in with the other Germanic pagan scene - like a roadmap?

>      Merry Meet, Blessed Be, Hare Krisna, Amen, May the Force be with You,
>      Live Long and Prosper, Wassail, etc...(Is that broad enough?)

 <grin>

Kallisti, fnord, Sliante, 93, g'day etc to you to :)

BTW in Britain wassailing is pouring cider with toast floating in it
(variously known as lambs wool, eel, etc) onto apple trees and
shouting, firing guns etc to assure the next years harvest - or is
your wassail different?

	Chris




--
Chris Lilley
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