HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: aahz@netcom.com (Mean Green Dancing Machine)
Subject: Re: Two new FAQ panels (for editing): Panel 1 for dealing with flamewars
Organization: Don't blame me, I voted for Bill 'n' Opus
Distribution: ca
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 13:12:31 GMT

In article <Nov.10.17.48.23.1992.18022@net.bio.net> charleen@net.bio.net (Charleen Bunjiovianna) writes:
>
>Two *more* FAQs you're going to autopost?  I can't be the only one who's
>getting tired of seeing the old ones.  (And, yes, I know how to build a
>kill file, thanks.)
>
>I'd like to see some discussion on this before you barrage us with
>more automated postings.

Thank you, Charleen.  I was wondering if I was the only person feeling
that way.  My beef isn't that I don't want him posting the stuff, just
that ba.general is, IMHO, not the appropriate place for it.

(I don't like killfiles, either.  They slow things down too much.)
-- 
                         --- Aahz (the *other* Dan Bernstein)
                             @netcom.com 

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6

Trying to be happy is like trying to build a machine for which the only
specification is that it should run noiselessly.
From: lefty@apple.com (Lefty)
Newsgroups: ba.general
Subject: Re: United in route dispute with Japan
Date: 9 Nov 92 19:24:35 GMT
Followup-To: ba.general
Distribution: ba
Organization: Our Lady of Heavy Artillery

In article <1992Nov6.024529.25613@leland.Stanford.EDU>,
eap@leland.Stanford.EDU (Eric Perozziello) wrote:
> 
> CHICAGO (UPI) -- United Airlines complained to the Department of
> Transportation that Japan violated the U.S.-Japan Civil Air Transport
> Agreement by refusing to allow United to extend its New York-Tokyo
> service Sydney, Australia.
> 
> {More of the usual...}

Eric, have you considered getting a life?  Or renting one for a while?

--
Lefty (lefty@apple.com)
C:.M:.C:., D:.O:.D:.
From: johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira)
Newsgroups: ba.general
Subject: Re: Two new FAQ panels (for editing): Panel 1 for dealing with flamewars
Date: 12 Nov 92 02:15:05 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: Auspex Systems, Inc.

In article <1992Nov11.191048.19593@netcom.com> shannah@netcom.com (Teri Miller) writes:
>In article <Nov.10.17.48.23.1992.18022@net.bio.net> charleen@net.bio.net (Charleen Bunjiovianna) writes:
|>I'd like to see some discussion on this before you barrage us with
|>more automated postings.
|>
|Frankly, if it even just cuts down on the number of postings along
|the lines of the recent Eric/Lefty/whoever flamewar, I think it's well
|worth it.
 
Agreed.

|Heck, if Eugene were to do the same thing for ba.singles, I'd probably
|send him a dozen roses.
 
And I if were to do the same thing for ba.singles Teri would probably demand
that I return the Cisco Interop party hat.

-- 
+==========================================================================+
| John Fereira        | Auspex Systems | "Ask me about my vow of silence." |
| johnf@auspex.com    | Santa Clara CA |                                   |
+==========================================================================+
Newsgroups: ba.general
From: rchilder@us.oracle.com (Richard Childers)
Subject: Re: Two new FAQ panels (for editing): Panel 1 for dealing with flamewars
Organization: Memes-R-Us
Distribution: ca
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 18:05:07 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

shannah@netcom.com (Teri Miller) writes:

>charleen@net.bio.net (Charleen Bunjiovianna) writes:

>>Two *more* FAQs you're going to autopost?  I can't be the only one who's
>>getting tired of seeing the old ones.  (And, yes, I know how to build a
>>kill file, thanks.)

>I don't think the posting rate of the FAQs is unduly high, and I don't
>think that adding these two sections is going to be any big deal.  I
>don't have a perfect memory, and even after 4 years on the net, I still
>occasionally read the FAQs, just to pick up bits that I may have
>forgotten.

Ditto.


-- richard

-- 
=====
-- richard childers		rchilder@us.oracle.com		1 415 506 2411
         oracle data center  --  unix systems & network administration
                    Klein flask for rent. Inquire within.
From: johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira)
Newsgroups: ba.general
Subject: Re: Two new FAQ panels (for editing): Panel 1 for dealing with flamewars
Date: 13 Nov 92 17:55:03 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: Auspex Systems, Inc.

In article <1992Nov12.193305.3867@netcom.com> shannah@netcom.com (Teri Miller) writes:
>In article <15451@auspex-gw.auspex.com> johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira) writes:
>>In article <1992Nov11.191048.19593@netcom.com> shannah@netcom.com (Teri Miller) writes:
|>|Heck, if Eugene were to do the same thing for ba.singles, I'd probably
|>|send him a dozen roses.
|> 
|>And I if were to do the same thing for ba.singles Teri would probably demand
|>that I return the Cisco Interop party hat.
|>
|Doggone it John, now you've let the cat out of the bag!  Now I'm going
|to get inundated with requests for Cisco Interop party hats, and I'm 
|going to have to disappoint each and every one.  I had to call in my last 
|few favors just to get yours.
 
We'll Teri, I never said that *you* gave me the party hat.  If you would
have just left the message alone people would have figured that I got
the hat at the Cisco Interop party. 

|I've got it!  If I get more than, say, 5 requests for Cisco Interop
|party hats, you'll wear yours to the next Boink, so that everyone can
|see it, right?  Maybe we can even get a picture of you wearing it into
|the group of travelling net.folks pictures that are making the rounds
|of the various Boinks, thanks to Rob Thurlow.....
 
I've heard that I'm conspicuously missing from the net.photos.  I'll bring
my camera to the net.dinner and we can get a few group shots of ba.singles
people getting the crabs.  No promises on wearing the Cisco hat, though.

-- 
+==========================================================================+
| John Fereira        | Auspex Systems | "Ask me about my vow of silence." |
| johnf@auspex.com    | Santa Clara CA |                                   |
+==========================================================================+
Newsgroups: ba.general,misc.kids,misc.legal
From: tzs@carson.u.washington.edu (Tim Smith)
Subject: Re: Attractive Nuisance (was: East Bay Regional Parks/dog restrictions)
Organization: University of Washington School of Law, Class of '95
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 07:47:44 GMT

rat@erg.sri.com (Ray Trent) writes:
>In the referenced article, mysti@sybase.com (Mysti) writes:
>>This society is built upon the attempt
>>to fairly balance personal rights and social responsibilities.  Would
>>you please quote the case you refer to, so I can look it up.
>
>Just out of curiosity, would you mind referencing the "Bill of
>Responsibilities" that attempts to fairly balance the personal rights
>guaranteed by the first 10 amendments?

It's not called a "Bill of Responsibility."  It's called "a few hundred
years of common law."

--Tim Smith
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Newsgroups: ba.general
Subject: Re: Two new FAQ panels (for editing): Panel 1 for dealing with flamewars
Date: 12 Nov 92 18:51:46 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA

In article <1992Nov11.191048.19593@netcom.com> shannah@netcom.com
(Teri Miller) writes:
>Heck, if Eugene were to do the same thing for ba.singles, I'd probably
>send him a dozen roses.

Sorry, I don't read ba.singles (except when then Geek love article was
printed by the Merc), but the thought is fine.

	<Kiss!>		;^)

But you can put one together yourself if you like. 8^)

>weren't they meant to be included as sections to already-existing FAQs?  

The structure of the FAQs is an experiment.  We went from bi weekly FAQs
into this new form which is linked.  I was planning to add these as two
addition links in the chain.  The problem is you can't make them too long
(you will see some of this in the quiz) because most readers don't know how
to search.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Associate Editor, Software and Publication Reviews
  Scientific Programming
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Seeking Books to buy:	Bongard, Pattern Recognition
			3 down 1 to go.
From: epsilon@wet.UUCP (Eric P. Scott)
Newsgroups: ba.general
Subject: Re: What do you guys think about the NeXT?
Date: 9 Nov 92 06:13:54 GMT
Reply-To: eps@cs.sfsu.edu
Distribution: ba
Organization: Wetware Diversions, San Francisco

In article <1992Nov8.034138.13790@netcom.com> bskendig@netcom.com
	(Brian Kendig) writes:
>My abbreviated opinion: It's a powerful machine with a good operating
>system that suffers from a lack of good software at reasonable prices,

Just as true of just about everything out there

>and has an uncertain future.

Just as true of just about everything out there

>                              (I don't think NeXT has released any new
>hardware or software in the past two years aside from one upgrade to
>their operating system, no?)

Actually, quite a bit has happened in the past two years.  Quite
a bit has happened in the past two *months*.

>                              For the price of a NeXT, you might want
>to look at comparable Macintosh or IBM-compatible systems, but it all
>depends on what you want to do with the machine.

Good advice.

>For more discussion on the NeXT computer, check out the
>"comp.sys.next.*" newsgroups.

Or get in touch with a local user group.  Since the original post
came from Boston University, I'll note that the Boston Computer
Society has a NeXT SIG.  In the Bay Area (since this is a ba
regional newsgroup), the largest user group is Palo Alto-based
BANG (e-mail info@bang.org); a more intimate one in the East Bay
is BNUG (affliated with BMUG of Mac fame).  Both have blurbs in 
MicroTimes (free from newsracks "everywhere").

If you actually want to see, touch, and play with the machines,
drop by MACadam in San Francisco (1062 Folsom between 6th and
7th).

And if you still believe there's no good software at reasonable
prices, or just need to convince someone that this is a *serious*
machine, check out the quarterly (soon to be every other month)
NeXTWORLD magazine.

					-=EPS=-
Newsgroups: ba.general
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Two new FAQ panels (for editing): Panel 2 a news quiz
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 01:05:46 GMT
Distribution: ca

This is more fun, but also a degree of truth.  It will probably be at the
the end of the month (as a final quiz).


The CA DMV News posting quiz

Test your news skills (answer T or F).

Beginner (reader)
	Can deliberately (not accidentally) invoke mail, news, bbs, or notes.
	Can get out of said system cleanly (without issuing an interrupt).
	Might be able to read news.  Can't post or send mail
		(probably because it invokes a foreign editor).
	Blown away when .newsrc (or .notesrc) starts up with 2245 lines (e.g.).
	Can't understand strange symbols.
	Strictly a lurker.

Intermediate (user)
	Beyond the beginner stage.
	Can read news groups sequentially.
	Can post follow-ups.
	Capable of invoking the system help command.
	Incapable of skipping articles.
	Not necessarily capable of article or group searching.
	Selectively reads news groups.  Ignores the rest.
	Expects others to post and generate articles like a magazine.
	Does not understand flame wars.
	Recognizes smilies 8^) [I have glasses.], maybe makes ASCII graphics.
	Lurker, sometime poster.

Advanced (poster)
	Beyond the intermediate stage.
	Can read news groups or posts in any order (random access).
	Can skip news articles.
	Can search a news article or new group.
	Can unsubscribe/subscribe from news.groups at will.
	Understands the differences in terminology (e.g., doesn't freak out
		when seeing the words notesfile, BBS, or discussion group).
	Knows how to use Followup lines.
	Can use Kill files.
	Can understands and edits .newsrc, .notesrc, .signature, etc. files.
	May understand the news.hierarchy.
	Can set up FAQs.
	Understands flame wars.

System Admin ()
	Beyond the advanced poster stage.
	Can set up a news system.
	Can decipher UUCP Paths.
	Can clean a news system when the file system gets full.
	Understands (read and edit) headers.
	Knows where articles actually sit.
	Understands or can set up news gateways.
	Understands accounts like root, system, postmaster, etc.
	Can control flame wars. ( rm -r /usr/spool/news/fav.news.path 8^)
	Not without a sense of humor.
	Able to piece together and understand deliberately obscure FAQ postings.
	May know how to forge postings.
	May moderate a news.group.

Explain the initials DMV in this context?

Newsgroups: ba.general
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: Two new FAQ panels (for editing):
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 18:03:14 GMT
Distribution: ca

In article <Nov.12.11.06.33.1992.12686@net.bio.net>
charleen@net.bio.net (Charleen Bunjiovianna) writes:
>Oh, yes, it's a lovely thought, indeed.

Glad to see you agree 8^).

>Why not post your ba.general FAQ series (which for the most part
>consists of non-newsgroup-specific stuff) to every newsgroup you read?

Partially because their format is experimental,
partially because this is *.general.
They started at a time when every one read general and when fewer
ba groups existed.  The idea was that it was read in conjunction with other
groups before there was the explosion.
The panels are also used by other requesting for them by mail:
cancelling, killfiles, even help.

>Why bother referring new readers to news.announce.newusers, the
>newsgroup specifically for new users?

Because most people are unaware of n.a.u., hence the pointer.

>I wouldn't have any problem with the articles 1) if they were truly
>FAQs (lists of Frequently Asked Questions).  They're not.  The latest
>two are just something Eugene Miya apparently thinks is cute.

The second certainly was "cute."  Just popped into the head.  The flame war
was something requested before Eric.  Something to do with Attractive Nu....
and before.  The more we attempt to educate better news use the better
we understand the dynamics of news.  Life is about trying.

>2) if they proved to be effectual in preventing flamewars.  They're not.
>You really think Eric P. is sitting there at Stanford saying, "Wow.  Look
>at that FAQ.  Guess I better not post any more articles about Japan in
>ba.general if I know what's good for me, huh?"

Can't limit free speech after all.  That's a price of freedom (which
the Army says, "Isn't free.").  You need to email Eric.  I got a kick out of
the proposal.

So no other additions?

>I now return you to your regularly-scheduled lovefest.  Kissy-kissy
>everyone!

8^)

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Associate Editor, Software and Publication Reviews
  Scientific Programming
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Seeking Books to buy:	Bongard, Pattern Recognition
			3 down 1 to go.
From: jimcole@adobe.com (Jim Cole)
Newsgroups: ba.general
Subject: Re: getting to SFO from South bay
Date: 13 Nov 92 22:46:51 GMT
Followup-To: ba.general,ba.transportation
Distribution: ba
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated

In article <1992Nov13.175415.12778@ntmtv>, adrian@ntmtv.UUCP (Adrian
Brandt) wrote:
> 
> In article <1992Nov12.215111.3190@acuson.com>, kuo@acuson.com (Ray Kuo) writes:
> |> Does anyone know of shuttle busses which run from the Mountain View
> |> area to SF airport?  Or is Caltrain the best way to go?
> 
> I've used CalTrain before.  You take it to one of either Belmont or
> Broadway or Millbrae and transfer to SamTrans bus 7F or 7B or 3B (in
> that order).
> 
> I used the Broadway/7B combination and it's the one I'd recommend if
> you're doing train->bus->airport.  The bus stop is right *at* the train
> station!  Check w/the SamTrans/CalTrain hotline for train and bus
> connection times at 1-(800)-660-4BUS.
> 
> -- 
> 
> Adrian Brandt (415) 940-2379
> UUCP: ...!ames!ntmtv!adrian
> ARPA: ntmtv!adrian@ames.arc.nasa.gov

The most direct way is the SamTrans 7F; it goes directly to SFO.  You have
to catch it along El Camino near Page Mill, though.  From Mtn. View, you
can take County Transit #22 or #300 north along El Camino.  The 22 runs
every 10-15 minutes until about 10pm, then maybe every 30 minutes until 1
or 2am.  The 300 runs only every 30 minutes, and stops in the early
evening, but is a Bonus Bus, which means fewer stops, but the same fare.

Jim Cole
From: aegl@ossi.com (Tony Luck)
Newsgroups: ba.general
Subject: How much to pay the "preacher"?
Date: 13 Nov 92 19:12:44 GMT
Distribution: ba
Organization: Open Systems Solutions Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: nym.ossi.com

I'm getting married in less than two weeks, and a friend is performing
the ceremony (yes, she is authorized/licensed/whatever to do this). But
the question has arisen on how much we should pay her.  After all she is
doing this for us, so we feel that we ought to pay her "the going rate"
for the job.  But neither she, nor us have any real clue as to what is
the "normal" fee for this.

I suppose I should really get out the yellow pages, and phone a few
ministers etc.  ...  but price-shopping for a preacher seems such a
wierd thing to do!  I was a little surprized that the answer isn't in
the FAQ, after all, I bet this question gets asked every month :-) :-)

So, anybody paid for their daughter to get married recently (or paid for
themselves for that matter)?

Replies by e-mail to <aegl@ossi.com>

-Tony Luck
Newsgroups: ba.general
From: hjack@well.sf.ca.us (Henry Jackson)
Subject: Mac Architrion for sale #300
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Distribution: ba
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 14:22:23 GMT


MacArchitrion v4.0 for sale  -  Architectural drawing package.

- 3D, 2D, Quantifier integrated package.

- 3D module is more than a basic modeling package.  Walls are created as
blocks, not extruded from 2D entities.

- 2D module is a comprehensive drafting package.  Supporting
dimensioning, block pattern fills, etc.  (everything you'd expect from a Mac
drawing package)

- Quantifier module allows material takeoffs.


This is a professional package that introduced architectural modeling to
the Mac platform.  I bought it in 1989 just about the time that my
architectural career transitioned from drawing to managing.  I never used
it as much as I'd hoped I would and basically have kept it on my hard disk
with hopes that "Some Day......."

Well, I need disk space, and money,  so I'm selling off what I don't
absolutely need.

The program originally sold for $3,000 and has had several upgrades that
introduced color, auto shading, etc.  I suppose you can use this program to
qualify for the upgrade if you want to.  Complete with all documentation.

PRICE:   $300.  OBO

Email hjack@well.sf.ca.us or call (415) 857-1034  (Palo Alto)
From: maxwell@fnalo.fnal.gov
Newsgroups: ba.general
Subject: Re: Profit from Drug Smuggling - Legally!
Summary: Forfeiture is theft.
Keywords: Forfeiture, Rip off, Unconstitutional law.
Date: 7 Nov 92 02:48:22 GMT
Organization: Fermi National Accelerator Lab
X-Posted-From: fnalo.fnal.gov
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1992Nov2.225727.14817@fico.uucp>, ala@fico.uucp writes:
> In article <1992Oct27.203526.27706@kronos.arc.nasa.gov> chucko@kronos.arc.nasa.gov (Chuck Fry) writes:
>>I urge anyone with a conscience to stay well clear of any auctions of
>>so-called "drug lord" property.
> 
> My experience has been that these "drug-lords" put their property up as
> collateral on their bail, skip the country, and THEN the property is sold.

Nope. The *overwhelming* majority of stuff seized from "drug-lords" is taken
from regular folks who just happened to get busted or who simply fall under the 
gov'ts suspicious gaze.  

You should know that in 80% of the cases of forfeiture, NO CHARGES ARE EVER
FILED. No one is accused. No one is arrested. No one goes to court. No one is
found guilty. 80% of the time.  

If I thought there was an 80% chance that the merchandise I was bidding for was
stolen, I wouldn't even consider it. 
Xref: sparky ba.general:4932 ba.market.misc:8394 su.market:1153 su.etc:250 ca.wanted:1434
From: shedevil@vix.com (Anne P. Mitchell JD)
Newsgroups: ba.general,ba.market.misc,su.market,su.etc,ca.wanted
Subject: WANTED: Rice Cooker, Radiator Heater, Bread Machine, Ski Machine
Date: 7 Nov 1992 09:14:04 -0800
Organization: Knapp & Viola, Attys., San Mateo, CA
Distribution: ba
NNTP-Posting-Host: gw.home.vix.com



Hiya folks!

Even though I am now working (yay!) I am still quite poor.  Therefore,
as I need and/or want the following items, I'd like to buy somebody's
used and unwanted/unloved ones.  I am looking for the following items:

1.  A bread machine.  I figure maybe someone got one as a gift, or
bought one and found they don't use it.  We would use it alot,
honest.  We'd love it, and feed it lots of flour and stuff frequently.

2.  A rice cooker.  I have a small one what makes up to 2 cups of rice
in the microwave.  It's nice, and fast, but not very useful if I am
feeding more than myself and my daughter.

3.  A ski machine.  Let the one in your garage/attic/basement take up
space in the house of someone who will really appreciate and use it,
instead of taking up wasted space in your garage/etc... :-)

4.  A radiator-type space heater.  You know the ones..they are filled
with something..oil I think..and you can stick them in a room to heat
the room.  My daughter's room is *freezing*, and I daren't leave her
with the type of heater that has open coils.

Any and all reasonable offers considered.

Thanks!


-- 
   LOOKING FOR:  David Widdicombe, Hobson Woodward, Lorna Taylor & JJ Lancey
I am: Anne Mitchell, mom, & founder of the Fathers' Rights & Equality Exchange
Ask me about FREE!  FREE files available via anonymous ftp 128.45.1.1; dir /pub
			FUTUE TE IPSUM ET CABALLUM TUUM
Newsgroups: ba.general,misc.kids,misc.legal
From: sethb@fid.morgan.com (Seth Breidbart)
Subject: Re: Attractive Nuisance (was: East Bay Regional Parks/dog restrictions)
Organization: my opinions only
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 04:46:58 GMT

In article <1992Nov4.062206.17201@adobe.com> pngai@adobe.com
(Phil Ngai) writes:
>In article <1992Nov4.033746.27517@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> whs70@dancer.uucp (22501-sohl) writes:

>>The logic of your conclusion thouroughly escapes me.
>
>If you object to A.N. laws then you are willing to have your
>children maimed or killed for not being always and perfectly obedient.
>Since you did not maim your children for disobeying, you obviously
>consider it an inappropriate consequence. So does the rest of
>society.

If you object to laws prohibiting motor vehicles from being driven
along streets in front of residences, then you are willing to have
your children maimed or killed for not being always and perfectly
obedient.

Seth		sethb@fid.morgan.com