HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sinster@cse.ucsc.edu (Darren Senn)
Newsgroups: comp.robotics
Subject: Re: How to order miniboard.
Date: 31 Aug 92 21:15:51 GMT
Organization: University of California, Santa Cruz (CE/CIS Boards)
NNTP-Posting-Host: tioga.ucsc.edu

In article <1992Aug30.000105.29312@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> dulimart@cps.msu.edu (Hansye S. Dulimarta) writes:
>who              what           how much
>---------------  -------------  --------
>Darren Senn      parts kit       $35

This price is only approximate, since I'm still waiting on word from Digikey,
ICC, and some other companies.  Among the companies I've already contacted,
i've already noticed some price discrepancies between Fred Martin's parts
list and the current prices.  The market fluctuates, and all that.

>Allan Kilian     processor	 $14.16

Actually, $16 when you count postage and tax and such.

>Greg Ratcliff    PCB		 X (I don't know)

I used to remember this.  :(

>(3) Do I have to send checks to DS, AK, and GR to order and then assemble the
>    components myself?

Unless someone offers to do assembly for you.  :)
-- 
Darren Senn                                            Phone:    (408) 479-1521
sinster@scintilla.capitola.ca.us                       Snail: 1785 Halterman #1
Wasurenaide -- doko e itte mo soko ni anata wa iru yo.     Santa Cruz, Ca 95062
Newsgroups: comp.robotics
From: monty@sagpd1 ()
Subject: Re: Mini Board 2.0 schematic now available
Reply-To: monty@sagpd1.UUCP (Monty Saine)
Organization: Scientific Atlanta, Government Products Div, San Diego, CA
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 15:21:49 GMT

In article <1992Aug26.153507.20195@news.media.mit.edu> fredm@media.mit.edu (Fred Martin) writes:
>Hello readers,
>
>The schematic for the Mini Board design is now on-line.  Please FTP to
>our server (cher.media.mit.edu), go to directory pub/miniboard/docs,
>and retrieve the file "schematic.PS".  

	Is there a non-ftp source available for the schematic and design kit?

	Can some kind sole e-mail the package to me?

	Boy is it a bummer not having ftp.......

	Monty Saine
Newsgroups: comp.robotics,sci.electronics,comp.ai.neural-nets,alt.models,can.general,can.ai,comp.ai.edu,ont.events,rec.models.rc
From: fasano@venus.iucf.indiana.edu (Matthew John Fasano)
Subject: sliprings
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4   
	I am wondering if sliprings are widely used in robotics.  If
Reply-To: fasano@venus.iucf.indiana.edu
Organization: IUCF
Distribution:  world
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 21:09:58 GMT

not, why?  Are they unreliable, expensive, or both.  
	I am designing a toy robot which lends itself to the use of
sliprings.  I need at leased six connections.  The cheapest comercial ones
I could find were 50 US $  this  was too expensive for a toy.  I believe
the older version of Radio Shacks Armitron used sliprings, but I haven't
been able to find one.
	does any one Know of a good design for homemade sliprings?
I prefer the pancake style.

					Matt Fasano 
Newsgroups: comp.robotics
From: dawill@hubcap.clemson.edu (david williams)
Subject: Re: Mini Board serial line
Keywords: Miniboard
Organization: Clemson University
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 22:06:06 GMT

fredm@media.mit.edu (Fred G Martin) writes:

>You are absolutely right, the Mini Board serial circuit will only be
>reliable in half-duplex protocols, where each side knows whether it's
>its turn to transmit or receive.

>This isn't so horrible, though.  For most applications, this works
>just fine.  See for example the protocol used by the DLM downloader,
>or the HEXMON program supplied with the Mini Board.

   True, but it still bugs me.  Hey, the RS-232 standard calls for
bidirectional transfer.  We've taken away that possibility.

>>   Even worse, what if we try to hook the MiniBoard up to another 
>>serial port that works the same way? (sending side supplies the negative
>>voltage) - No communications will be possible! 

>Believe it or not, two Mini Boards can communicate to each other.
>Think about it:  the Mini Board's own circuit doesn't need a negative
>voltage for serial line true.  The "negative" voltage will simply be
>zero volts (there is a 10K resistor pulling the RxD input to ground).
>When either board needs to transmit +5v, it can do so, and the other
>board will interpret it properly.

Duh.  [Slaps head with fist]  Oops.  You're right, I hadn't thought
about that.  But here's a question for you:  Since both minboards
are going to be echoing the signal, will we not have problems with 
data corruption from the bits that have made the round-trip colliding
with the newly transmitted bits?  This will only happen on a really
long cable at high transfer rates, so it may be a moot point.  Anybody
have an idea what sort of delay a standard (if there is such a thing) 
RS-232 cable has?  
   Since most miniboard applications will probably have a cable that
is 3 feet or less, or maybe even just a few inches long in a robot, 
this round-trip echo shouldn't be a problem.

>>   yep.  Oh well is right.  Get out the x-acto knives when you get 
>>the miniboard.

>I think this comment is a bit harsh.  The circuit works just fine for
>most protocols and most computers, and has been tested on a variety of
>clone and true-blue PCs, Macintosh models, and Unix boxes.  The main
>situation in which the circuit will be problematic is if your host
>computer can't deal with +/-5 volts instead of the standard +/-12
>volts.  And as I mentioned in a previous message, computers with this
>limitation are fairly unusual.

   Ok, I deserved that.  Of *course* you guys have tested it out.
Motorola told me while I was working on my thesis that their 1488/1489
RS-232 level shifters (which just about every serial application I've
ever seen uses) can handle RS-232 levels of +5v and -0.5 (!) just fine.
   Still, I can envision some situations where I would want
bidirectional high-speed transfer between the controlling computer and
the robot.  Just call it a matter of style, I suppose.  I can't wait
untill my 3 miniboards get here.

>	- Fred
-- 
      Dave Williams
        dawill@hubcap.clemson.edu
           "Huh?  What?  Could you repeat the question?"

Newsgroups: comp.robotics
From: fredm@media.mit.edu (Fred G Martin)
Subject: Mini Board serial line
Keywords: Miniboard
Organization: MIT Media Laboratory
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 18:47:14 GMT

In article <1992Aug28.135419.3725@hubcap.clemson.edu>
dawill@hubcap.clemson.edu (david williams) writes: 

>Since the RxD and TxD lines are tied
>together, a pontential point of error is going to be in the timing
>of transmitted characters.  Suppose you just received a block that needs
>to be responded to.  If the MiniBoard transmits at the same time the
>sending computer does, the two bytes will collide at the Miniboard
>interface.  This means we're going to have to use a half-duplex
>scheme in which the MiniBoard "knows" when the sending computer is
>guaranteed not to be transmitting.  A good example of this sort 
>of scheme is the kermit protocol.

You are absolutely right, the Mini Board serial circuit will only be
reliable in half-duplex protocols, where each side knows whether it's
its turn to transmit or receive.

This isn't so horrible, though.  For most applications, this works
just fine.  See for example the protocol used by the DLM downloader,
or the HEXMON program supplied with the Mini Board.

>   Even worse, what if we try to hook the MiniBoard up to another 
>serial port that works the same way? (sending side supplies the negative
>voltage) - No communications will be possible! 

Believe it or not, two Mini Boards can communicate to each other.
Think about it:  the Mini Board's own circuit doesn't need a negative
voltage for serial line true.  The "negative" voltage will simply be
zero volts (there is a 10K resistor pulling the RxD input to ground).
When either board needs to transmit +5v, it can do so, and the other
board will interpret it properly.

>   yep.  Oh well is right.  Get out the x-acto knives when you get 
>the miniboard.

I think this comment is a bit harsh.  The circuit works just fine for
most protocols and most computers, and has been tested on a variety of
clone and true-blue PCs, Macintosh models, and Unix boxes.  The main
situation in which the circuit will be problematic is if your host
computer can't deal with +/-5 volts instead of the standard +/-12
volts.  And as I mentioned in a previous message, computers with this
limitation are fairly unusual.

	- Fred
Newsgroups: comp.robotics
From: kilian@cray.com (Alan Kilian)
Subject: MC68HC811E2FN order has been placed.
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 1 Sep 92 23:00:38 CDT

I found a stash of MC68HC811E2FN processors at Future Electronics. 
14,942 in fact!

I have gotten bad information from distributors soo many times in the last
two days that I placed an order for 46 parts. I must order them in units of 23. 

The following people have parts on the order. 
An "X" in the last column means I have your check and will deposit it on 
Wednesday.

"SENT" means that you said you send a check but I don't have it yet.

Blank means that I don't have confirmation you actually want the parts.
This means that you need to Email me NOW and tell me that the check is in
the mail.

There are still two parts unclaimed in the first order. First Email wins.

I will place another order if I get checks for a multiple of 23 parts.

I cannot ship these parts outside the US.

If you see your name here and don't see an Email address please send it.
If you see your Email address here but not your name it means I screwed up
and I don't have your name or address. Please send them.

First order placed with Future Electronics for 2*23 Motorola MC68HC811E2FN
               bws@ccs.carleton.ca 				Quantity  2
Beyer Jim      beyer@erim.org					Quantity  2 SENT
Butts Mike     mbutts@qcktrn.com                                Quantity  1 X
Conger Eric    conger@rock.concert.net 				Quantity  2 X
Conklin Steve  steve@zymurgy.b15.ingr.com 			Quantity  1 X
Dodson Scott   DODSONSL@memstvx1.memst.edu			Quantity  2
Hounshell Lee  tlhouns@srv.PacBell.COM 				Quantity  4 X
Kilian Alan    kilian@cray.com					Quantity 10 X
Pathak Dhiraj  Dhiraj_Pathak@TAJ.SOAR.CS.CMU.EDU                Quantity  2 X
Pereira Pratap pereiva@ee.eng.ohio-state.edu                    Quantity  1 X
Picardo Leslie picardo@alpha.ces.cwru.edu                       Quantity  1 X
Puchol Carlos                                                   Quantity  2 SENT
Senn Darren    sinster@scintilla.capitola.ca.us			Quantity  2
Seyer Monte    monte@wri.com                                    Quantity  3 X
Singh Pushpinder push@media-lab.mit.edu 			Quantity  2
Welch Rick     welch@mda.ecs.umass.edu 				Quantity  4 X
Wynden Rob     rawynde@netcom.com                               Quantity  2 X
Yeargers Jon   jon@genetics.washington.edu                      Quantity  1 X

Unclaimed							Quantity  2
                                                                Total    46

Possible second order: These folks are unsure about the quantity.
Congdon Clare congdon@engin.umich.edu				Quantity 16
Puchol Carlos                                                   Quantity  8
                                                                Total    24

                       -Alan Kilian
-- 
 -Alan Kilian           kilian@cray.com 612.683.5499 (Work) 612.729.1652 (Home)
  Cray Research, Inc.   655 F Lone Oak Drive, Eagan  MN, 55121 
                        "It's based on actual math". -Dilbert
From: roma@pe.chalmers.se (Robert Maglica)
Newsgroups: comp.robotics
Subject: Re: IRB/6 Serial link
Date: 3 Sep 92 07:13:14 GMT

Hi,
well i don't have any code but the implementation is pretty
straight forward if you have the following documents:

Computer Link                                                CK 09-1209E

Asea Robot Application Protocol (ARAP) for Computer Link     CK 09-1204E

Asynchronous Communication for Computer Link-ADLP 10         CK 09-1205E


Robert Maglica
Dept. of Production Engineering
Chalmers U. of Tech.
Gothenburg, SWEDEN

e-mail: roma@pe.chalmers.se


Newsgroups: comp.robotics
From: fredm@media.mit.edu (Fred Martin)
Subject: Re: 6811s and their EPROM
Organization: MIT Media Laboratory
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 19:22:01 GMT

In article <1992Sep2.104405.15299@hemlock.cray.com> kilian@cray.com
(Alan Kilian) writes: 

>The reason we are using the "8" seried 6811 chips with just EEPROM is
>that the 6811 only comes in a plastic case and you can only program
>the EPROM parts ONCE. You cannot erase them like you can with EEPROM

This isn't quite true. 

Motorola makes two packaging styles for the EPROM chips.  The "FS"
package is a ceramic cerquad leaded chip carrier with an erase window
(this part fits into the same socket at the 52-pin PLCC part).  With
this FS package, you can erase the EPROM, but only by exposing it to
ultraviolet light.  Not quite as convenient as the EEPROM
(electrically erasable programmable ROM).

If you get an EPROM part in an FN package (plastic leaded chip
carrier, more commonly known as PLCC), you are buying
"OTPROM"---One-Time Programmable ROM.  Physically, it's the same stuff
as EPROM, but without an erase window, you only get one chance to burn
in your program!

	- Fred
-- 
Fred Martin | fredm@media.mit.edu | (617) 253-7143 | 20 Ames St. Rm. E15-301
Epistemology and Learning Group, MIT Media Lab     | Cambridge, MA 02139 USA
From: Herman.Woltring@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Herman Woltring)
Newsgroups: comp.robotics
Subject: Re: Denavit-Hartenberg question
Summary: Attitude matrices and Euler/Cardan angles
Keywords: Joints, angles
Date: 2 Sep 92 18:22:15 GMT
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service

In article <chrisp.715431369@narbelek> chrisp@cs.uwa.oz.au (chris pudney)
writes:
>
>G'day,
>
>Consider a mechanism with three orthogonal joint axes coincident at a single
>point, that is, a spherical wrist with roll, pitch and yaw motion axes.  How
>can this mechanism be represented using D-H parameters.  I can't come up
>with a solution.  Can you?  If so would you please let me know it?
>
>Chris.

In section 3.11 of Suh & Radcliffe, Kinematics and Mechanisms Design, Wiley
1978, the Hartenberg-Denavit notation is simply a 4*4 attitude/position
transformation in homogeneous coordinates. In the upper-left 3*3 submatrix,
a straightforward orthonormal attitude matrix is provided.  In earlier sec-
tions of this chapter, the standard Cardanic angles are related to this
attitude matrix.  Alternatively, one can use the `vector components' of an
attitude vector which are truely orthogonal w.r.t. each other, but not
generally physically realisable.  See a manuscript in LaTeX retrievable via
anonymous ftp as attjob.tex in subdirectory /pub/biomch-l at ftp.nici.kun.nl.
 
Herman J. Woltring, Eindhoven/NL
woltring@nici.kun.nl (do not send private notes to the BBS address)
--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: comp.robotics
From: rg@msel.unh.edu (Roger Gonzalez)
Subject: DENNING
Organization: Denning Mobile Robotics
Distribution: comp
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 01:22:05 GMT


Hi all!  Just wanted to let you know that I'm now working at Denning, and that
I'll be informally available here for comments and suggestions, and once I
learn the ropes, maybe even for limited help.  I'll have to find out if that
is kosher for me to do..

At any rate, I'd love to hear feedback about why you love or hate your MRV.
I'm sure that your insights as users would be most appreciated here!

-Roger
--
artificial flowers        pieces of plastic and metal, crudely fashioned to 
                          bear a limited, superficial resemblance to real
                          flowers, but with no credible attempt to match their
                          internal complexity in terms of form, function, or
                          behavior

artificial intelligence   really smart computers

Roger Gonzalez   -  rg@msel.unh.edu
Denning Mobile Robotics, Wilmington MA


Newsgroups: comp.robotics
From: weberk@marvin.cs.curtin.edu.au (Keven Weber)
Subject: adaptive control
Keywords: control
Organization: Curtin University of Technology
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 09:21:09 GMT

G'day all,

I'm looking for any information (i.e. references etc.) concerning adaptive
motion control.

The problem I'm concerned with is providing a mobile robot with smooth
acceleration capabilities using real-time learning of control information.
(The mobile robot's motion is controlled by discrete power levels applied to
the wheels).

Any information is much appreciated.

Cheers.

Keven
--

-----
Email: weberk@cs.curtin.edu.au
From: man@labrea.zko.dec.com (Richard Man)
Newsgroups: comp.robotics
Subject: Re: subsumption realtime kernel paper
Date: 3 Sep 92 15:34:51 GMT
Reply-To: man@labrea.zko.dec.com (Richard Man)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


Here is the second list, current as of 11:30 AM EST September 3rd ;-), of 
requesters for my paper (~130 requests so far!). You should be getting the
paper within couple days. In fact, you may get the mail from me before this
post shows up!

Anyway, the mail is a uuencoded compressed file. By changing some fonts, I
cut down the postscript file from ~220K to ~110K so it makes sense to compress
it. Let me know if you need "raw" postscript or have problem receiving the
file etc.

Other points:
1. As far as I know, DEC doesn't do robotics stuff :-(. This is a personal 
   work.
2. I would prefer not to put this up on ftp: I can't put anything in ftp 
   sites, and I rather not have my paper sits at some ftp sites for
   eternity ;-).
3. I will answer the questions in the mail as soon as possible, which means
   probably some times next week.

Thank you!

mgauthier engelson-sean miker williams feng rgacote lc trp philk dgawley marsj
wpns danh davidr tim jcw venable wylee scvalentine gt marantz brian1 robots
tarvydas bushbo mark bog deryl leepeng jcao Jean-Luc.Szpyrka greyham gjlacey
glaser str burns john marka lundin krishnan fgougeon dand%isdgsm dufault
cam tommi markv ckt osberg philk niehaus hhh terrys G.Moretti dml djung
jon mcgonig wingloon vgeor mark pingsian wet!fhausman sabel noreils
--
- Richard F. Man (man@labrea.zko.dec.com)
"Small Rovers - Big Dreams"
Newsgroups: comp.robotics
From: dawill@hubcap.clemson.edu (david williams)
Subject: Re: Miniboard 2.0 & NMI F68HC11
Keywords: Miniboard
Organization: Clemson University
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 14:24:29 GMT

fredm@media.mit.edu (Fred G Martin) writes:

>In article <1992Aug26.192907.10931@aio.jsc.nasa.gov>
>poirot@widget.jsc.nasa.gov (Daniel Poirot) writes: 

[stuff deleted]

>>Are there configuration mods to your programs to disable the
>>requirement for echo?  Do I need to re-compile the programs?  

   Looking at the miniboard schematic, I would say that disabling the 
hardware echo is going to be a semi tough, but not impossible, task.
The reason for the echo is the fact that the miniboard needs a source
of negative voltage to pull the RS-232 line low when it is transmitting
a space.  Since it only has +5V power, the only other source of negative
voltage is the incoming RxD serial line.  So, a resistor between the 
RxD and TxD line holds the TxD line low when the miniboard is
transmitting a space condition.  (A 2N3904 transistor pulls the TxD line
high in a mark condition.)

   So, the answer is to provide a -5V source to drive the line low.
Maybe a small battery pack?  A nine-volt battery, maybe?  Here would be
the mod:  cut the connection between the (10K? don't have the schematic
in front of me right now) resistor on the RxD line (leaving it attached
to TxD) and connect a source of -5V to it.  That should work.

   As an aside, the voltage levels we're using here aren't really up to
the RS-232 spec, but just about every RS-232 receiver (Motorola 1488? 
1489?) can handle this range of input voltages.  As a matter of fact,
we might be able to get away with as little as -3 volts for the
transmit.  Someone with a databook want to verify this?

[more stuff deleted]


      Dave Williams
        dwilliam@jabba.ess.harris.com
           "Huh?  What?  Could you repeat the question?"


-- 
      Dave Williams
        dawill@hubcap.clemson.edu
           "Huh?  What?  Could you repeat the question?"
From: kilian@cray.com (Alan Kilian)
Newsgroups: comp.robotics
Subject: MC68HC11 versions map
Date: 30 Aug 92 03:04:11 GMT
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.

O.K. Here's everything I know about different versions of MC68HC11s:

+------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| PART NUMBER | EPROM | ROM | EEPROM | RAM |  Comments                         |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| MC68HC11A8  |  ---  |  8K |   512  | 256 | Family built around this device   |
| MC68HC11A1  |  ---  | --- |   512  | 256 | 'A8 with ROM disabled             |
| MC68HC11A0  |  ---  | --- |   ---  | 256 | 'A8 with ROM and EEPROM disabled  |
| MC68HC811A8 |  ---  | --- | 8K+512 | 256 | EEPROM emulator for 'A8           |
| MC68HC11E9  |  ---  | 12K |   512  | 512 | 4 input capture, 512 ram, 12K ROM |
| MC68HC11E1  |  ---  | --- |   512  | 512 | 'E9 with ROM disabled             |
| MC68HC11E0  |  ---  | --- |   ---  | 512 | 'E9 with ROM and EEPROM disabled  |
| MC68HC811E2 |  ---  | --- |    2K  | 256 | No ROM part for expanded systems  |
| MC68HC711E9 |  12K  | --- |   512  | 512 | One-time programmable version 'E9 |
| MC68HC11D3  |  ---  |  4K |   ---  | 192 | Low cost 40-pin version           |
| MC68HC711D3 |   4K  | --- |   ---  | 192 | One-time programmable version 'D3 |
| MC68HC11F1  |  ---  | --- |   512  | 1K  | Non-multiplexed 68-Pin            |
| MC68HC11K4  |  ---  | 24K |   640  | 768 | >1Meg memory space PWM, CS, 84-Pin|
| MC68HC711K4 |  24K  | --- |   640  | 768 | One-time programmable version 'K4 |
| MC68HC11L6  |  ---  | 16K |   512  | 512 | Like the 'E9 more ROM, I/O 64/68  |
| MC68HC711L6 |  16K  | --- |   512  | 512 | One-time programmable version 'L4 |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Notes:
1) On the E2, and F1 parts the EEPROM is relocatable to the top of any 4K page.
   Relocation is done with the upper 4 bits of the CONFIG register.
2) I think the L6 part comes in 64 or 68 pin versions.
3) The E9 part only comes in 52 pin PLCC
4) The A8 comes in either 52 pin PLCC or 48 pin DIP. 
   On the 48 pin DIP version Port E bits 4,5,6,7 (Analog inputs 4,5,6,7) are
   not available. That's where they get the extra 4 pins from.
5) The suffix for 52 pin PLCC is "FN"
   The suffix for 48 pin DIP  is "P"
6) There are a million versions of all these. 2, 3, and 4 MHZ BUS speeds
   and a lot of other things. I have a "Motorola roadmap" that lists 36
   different suffixes.
7) There is an 'N4 version with 24K ROM, 768 RAM, 640 EEPROM, 8-bit A/D,
   8-bit D/A, 6 PWMs, 16 bit math co-processor, 62 bits of I/O and a 4MHZ
   non-multiplexed bus. Good luck finding this guy!

                           -Alan Kilian
-- 
 -Alan Kilian           kilian@cray.com 612.683.5499 (Work) 612.729.1652 (Home)
  Cray Research, Inc.   655 F Lone Oak Drive, Eagan  MN, 55121 
                        "It's based on actual math". -Dilbert
From: fculpepp@norfolk.vak12ed.edu (Fred W. Culpepper)
Newsgroups: comp.robotics
Subject: Re: sliprings
Date: 26 Aug 92 15:15:41 GMT
Organization: Virginia's Public Education Network (Norfolk)

fasano@venus.iucf.indiana.edu  writes:
> not, why?  Are they unreliable, expensive, or both.  
> 	I am designing a toy robot which lends itself to the use of
> sliprings.  I need at leased six connections.  The cheapest comercial ones
> I could find were 50 US $  this  was too expensive for a toy.  I believe
> the older version of Radio Shacks Armitron used sliprings, but I haven't
> been able to find one.
> 	does any one Know of a good design for homemade sliprings?
> I prefer the pancake style.
> 
> 					Matt Fasano 
You can make a "slip ring" assenbly using a printed circuit
board with a concentric ring pattern and old relay contact
springs for wipers.  I have used this scheme for up to 12 rings
on a pc board of 8" diameter.

Fred W. Culpepper
OLD DOMINION UNIVERSITY (Retired)
fculpepp@norfolk.vak12ed.edu
--