From: imran@panix.com (Imran Anwar)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: e-mail to lahore - LET US CLEAR SOME MISCONCEPTIONS PLEASE
Date: 23 Nov 92 21:07:02 GMT
Distribution: soc
Organization: Information & Media Resources, Affiliations, Networks

In <Nov.22.19.19.52.1992.1193@gandalf.rutgers.edu> amarmahb@gandalf.rutgers.edu (Amar Mahboob Ali) writes:

>imran@panix.com (Imran Anwar) writes:

>>In <1992Nov22.4739.22675@dosgate> "haroon bashir" <haroon.bashir@canrem.com> writes:


>>I hope this helps you in your decisions.  If you want to have our offices
>>in pakistan contact someone to explain internet email you can send email to
>>usman@imran.ar.pk for people in Lahore or send email to root@khi.imran.ar.pk
>>if you want us to contact someone in Karachi.

>>Regards

>>Imran Anwar

>Upon repeated contacts with the above people in Karachi and in Lahore
>a friend of mine has been unable to get any information about the
>service. This is very frustrating.

I am surprised that your friend has had this "experience" whereas anyone
else who asked about it has had no trouble loggin on, and sending and
receiving email.  Who did your friend talk to?  Can you please be more specific
about the problems they had so we can help you solve them?  

What information do you need when you say "unable to get any information"

>I had initially thought that once the bbs gets going in Karachi, it
>would be possible to get friends to hook up there. But, alas this is
>not the case. 

Alas, this IS the case as anyone will tell you.  People from all walks of life
are on there, newspaper folks to the managers of a large mulitnational oil
company, students, individual users, and even some girls I am told.  I
wonder how they got the information they needed that you cannot.

> The crew in Karachi does not seem to have the required
>info, 
^^^^
Here's that word again - WHAT info?

>and Lahore has not answered even after repeated queries and phone
>calls. 

Who did they speak to in these "repeated" queries.  If you can have your 
friend tell you and you send me email I will be happy to take disciplinary
action on whoever is responsible for your friend's frustration (related to
internet only of course ;-)  )

>My friend does not even have complete information about rates
>etc. 

Can you please let me know what specific rate they want - the rates for
email on internet inter-city and out of Pakistan are the same for everyone
so I cannot understand why they are not available to your friend - whose name
I would appreciate your telling me and phone number too please.

> Tell me how can anyone consider hooking up when he does not even
>know how much he will be charged at the end of the month.

The fact that people are in fact hooked up and using the system means
that you have not been given an accurate picture by your friend.

>And, besides, previous conceptions, like email will be free within
>Pakistan are turning out to be, sadly, misconceptions. 

I regret if you or anyone has or had any misconceptions about any aspect
of the service.  At no time have we said what specific rates will or
will nopt apply - the idea and our effort is to get enough large volume 
business users to come online so that "ordinary folks" like you and me
can have email for free.  Until that happens obviously no one can finance
free email as we are not financed at all by ANYONE.  We have not asked or
tried to get anyone to help recoup the cost of the investment we have already
made - all we are doing is to get the actual cost of data transmission
that people use.

You should know that even when someone exchanges data between Karachi and
Lahore or Lahore and Sialkot they are costing us money, big time.  You
should know that the cost of calling Lahore from Karachi is something like
Rs 55 or so per minute.  Someone has to pay that - if you think it should
all be free, then of course you can wait for the day when the governemnt
decides to create a Ministry of Free Email that finances everyone's email.

>They are asking
>Rs 300 for "fax" access within Pakistan, 

Aha! So you do have some information.

>without any info on how much
>volume will be allowed. 

Can yoiu please explain where you got the Rs 300 number without a data figure
Do you think anyone can quote a price of Rs 50 for eggs without saying HOW many
eggs they are talking about?

>And there is no mention of international rates
>at all.

So what is there a mention of?  You said you had no information at all!
There is no such thing as "international" There is a rate for internet
email and there is no charge for email sent within a system -so anyone
sending mail to anyone else on the same system will find it free and not
included in the data we charge for internet email.  Any internet email to
outside the system (basically meaning outside the city or country) is
charged.

>Come on fellows, this is no way to run a system, 

Come on man, this is no way to run off at the keyboard without knowing what
you are talking about.  

>when the potential
>users are kept in the dark about vital information. 

You are the only one who is in the dark because other users who are using
the system on a daily basis are obviously not stupid - they know what they
are getting and what they are paying for it.

>No matter how many
>cities you expand to, it is no use when the people cant use the
>system.

Obviously we would not be spending time, money, effort, etc on expanding
if there was not a demand out there.  People liked the system and they
asked us for more and we have obliged.  We have added on (soon to become
publicly available) POST service for overnight mail for those who do not
have computers and modems in Pakistan.

Obviously, some people love it and we thank those who have expressed
appreciation and have given suggestions for new products/services,
we welcome those who are taking PCs and modems home with them to Pakistan to
become further nodes to the system, and we pity those who are still in the
dark :-) 

But seriously, Amar, please send me details of who this friend of yours is
and who he spoke to - what information he says he got and what he claims
he did not get (I assume it is a He as there are some girls on the system
too I am told :-)  )

I will have him come online.  I assume he has a modem and software.

>Wassalam

Thank you for your attention

>Amar Mahboob


Imran Anwar

imran@imran.ar.pk
imran@panix.com

Or Ashar Nisar

ashar@ar.pk
a9@btr.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan