HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 11:35:21 CST
From: <U19807@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: "Harlan Ellison's Watching" by Harlan Ellison
 <C18LHF.2yJ@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> <sterbenc-220193101322@150.130.23.185>
 <1993Jan23.163326.18463@zip.eecs.umich.edu>

In article <1993Jan23.163326.18463@zip.eecs.umich.edu>, stame@emunix.emich.edu
(Stewart Tame) says:
>
>Lottsa luck.  The book is out of print and will set you back a hefty sum if
>you *do* manage to find it.

I _was_ able to grab the (Ace?) early '80's paperback editions of both _TGT_
and _TOGT_,but I tossed _TOGT_ due to the binding finally giving out. (don't
snicker...until Hunter S. Thompson's _The Great Shark Hunt_ got picked up by
Ballantine recently,I went through no less than _4_ copies of the Warner
paperback edition that way...)

      ** Chris Krolczyk,esq.  * DISCLAIMER: My opinions are in **
      ** Maniac-at-Large      * no way endorsed by the Univer- **
      ** U19807@UICVM.BITNET  * sity of Illinois at Chicago.   **
      ** u19807@uicvm.uic.edu * So much for frivolous lawsuits.**
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig)
Subject: Re: "Harlan Ellison's Watching" by Harlan Ellison
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 00:51:18 GMT

An interesting counterpoint to Ellison's review collections is the
essay "Revealed At Last!  Why the Dinosaurs Died Out -- And You Don't
Look So Good Either."  (Was it included in this book?)

What makes it interesting is that his "Glass Teat" reviews took the
position that television, had a marvelous potential, though it wasn't
doing a very good job of living up to it.  "Dinosaurs", written over
a decade later, had Ellison suggesting that the problem might be
intrinsic to the medium.

(I'm trying to remember the title of the anthology which that essay
introduced.  "Strange Wine"?)

-----
Dani Zweig
dani@netcom.com

   If you're going to write, don't pretend to write down.  It's going to be the
   best you can do, and it's the fact that it's the best you can do that kills
   you! -- Dorothy Parker
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,alt.president.clinton
From: wismith@amelia.nas.nasa.gov (William R. Smith)
Subject: Re: Forcing the Spring 
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 16:02:20 GMT

Katherine M. Catmull writes:

	Clinton talked about "forcing the spring" twice in his inauguration
	speech. 


Elizabeth G. Levy writes:

	April is the cruellest month,
	Breeding lilacs out of the dead land,
	Stirring dull roots with spring rain.

	:-)



"Youth, like spring, is a most overrated season."

				George Bernard Shaw





William Sburgfort Smith
Intel, SSD
From: bh419@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ted B Samsel)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: SF as a vector of extremely mundane ideas
Date: 21 Jan 1993 12:03:34 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


A rhetorical question:
  Should we assume that the "future" will be less mundane than
the present or the past?

  Personally, I assume the present, past and future will 
(solipsistically speaking) be equally mundane. BUT, I was
speaking solipsistically.
-- 
Ted....
From: spb0457@rigel.tamu.edu (SubGenius)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: New ideas on SF -or- Confessions of an pulp reader
Date: 24 Jan 1993 01:04 CST
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: rigel.tamu.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

Dani Zweig writes...
>>I appreciate your capitulation.
>Sub, you wasted a lot of people's time because you were under the
>impression that this discussion was something to be won or lost.

+-----------------------------------------SubG-------------------------------+
Damn straight I'm operatin' under that assumption (in addition the influence).

And so are you, mate, or you wouldn't have tried to score points by explainin'
that to me.

Unless I'm supposed to believe that altruism and an ernest urge to see me
edified prompted the above.








An asshole,
Yours etc.,




SubGenius
From: spb0457@rigel.tamu.edu (SubGenius)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: New ideas on SF -or- Confessions of an pulp reader
Date: 22 Jan 1993 12:37 CST
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: rigel.tamu.edu
Keywords: Like flys to wanton schoolboys...
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    


Tom Maddox writes...

>	Parsing aside, quite a few people consider _GR_ to be sf.  
>	As is evidenced by the fact that it was a Nebula finalist the year
>it was published--Nebulas being the awards given annually by the Science
>Fiction Writers of America.

+-------------------------------------------SubG---------------------------+
Hey, yeah?

That's sort of puzzlin' in that:

a)  I still can't actually see any defense for it being science fiction.
    I mean, as far as _Neuromancer_ goes I can certainly see how and why
    most people consider it science fiction, but this _GR_ as science
    fiction is boggling.

b)  I can't believe that, given it was nominated, it didn't win.  Who
    got the `novel' Nebula that year ('73?)?







-SubGenius



Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: walkerjo@cgsvax.claremont.edu
Subject: L.A. bookstores????
Organization: The Claremont Graduate School
Date: 25 Jan 93 22:19:44 PST


I recently moved out to the L.A. area and admit to being lost in a sea
of suburbs.  Can anyone help me find a good bookstore or three focusing
on mystery/detection books?  I know there's one in St. Louis--I think it's
called The Big Sleep--so there MUST be one out here.  I hope.

As a matter of fact, please recommend ANY good bookstores out here,
especially those which deal in used books.  I've got a lot of collections
to work on...

E-mail appreciated.
Thanks!

Joe Walker
walkerjo@cgsvax.claremont.edu

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: fi@grebyn.com (Fiona Webster)
Subject: Re: Censorship
Organization: Grebyn Timesharing
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 17:44:55 GMT

Mike Godwin writes:
>The book you want was published just last year, Tom. It's by Cardozo Law
>School professor Edward de Grazia, and it's called GIRLS LEAN BACK
>EVERYWHERE: THE LAW OF OBSCENITY AND THE ASSAULT ON GENIUS. It is highly
>readable and entertaining (it's not a law tract), and well worth owning.

What is "Girls Lean Back Everywhere" an allusion to?  It's so familiar--
I've been rummaging through my brain to no avail.

							--Fiona
From: crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Lauren L. Crawford)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Most-anthologized English-language poem
Date: 28 Jan 93 15:11:25 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania


"How do I love thee?  Let me count the ways..."  by Barrett Browning

"I think that I shall never see a poem as lovely as a tree ..." by Kilmer

"Stopping By the Woods on a Snowy Evening" by Frost

"No Man Is an Island" by Donne


-- 
I can identify with steelworkers.  I can identify with workers that have
had a difficult time.      -- Former Vice-President Danforth Quayle
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lauren Crawford  //  crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu
From: arc2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (AMY CHARLES)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Book-title modesty
Date: 23 Jan 93 23:47:46 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

In article <1993Jan22.132129.46644@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>, miner@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
 writes:
>It occurred to me the other day that I feel compelled, when carrying a
>book in public, to conceal the title, usually by carrying it with the
>front cover toward my body.  Observation bears out my hunch that many
>others do the same, at least if the book they're carrying falls into
>the category of Good Literature (which much narrows the database of my
>observation).
>
>I wonder why we do this.  Much objectively pointless behavior is
>"ritual" in nature, but this book-title modesty doesn't seem to fit
>into any obvious larger pattern...  It certainly runs counter to the
>coffee-table habit...
>

I dunno about you, Ken, but I hate that squirmy feeling you get when somebody
comes up and says, "Are you *really* reading that?"  or "Are you in school?"
And if you say, "Why yes, I am," or "No, I'm reading this because I *like*
it," they give you one of those funny gee-you-must-be-a-brain looks.  I've
never been pregnant, but the feeling must be akin to having some utter
stranger grope your pregnant belly.  (Not *yours*, obviously.)
Another deterrent is the v. bright but emotionally precarious types who take
the bus and sit down next to you, on the basis of your book, and decide you're
a friend for life.  Which could be okay, I guess, I've just never had it turn
out that way.  Besides, they talk when you're trying to read.  :-)

Amy
Allentown, PA



>-Ken
>--
>miner@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu | Nobody can explain everything to everybody.
>opinions are my own      | G. K. Chesterton
>
From: glink@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (gary g link)
Subject: Re: Buried Treasure -or- So, whaddaya use for bookmarks?
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 01:43:04 GMT


Uff Da!  I cannot imagine repeating the magnificent list of bookmarks
put forth for our reading enjoyment, but I can add my (modest but
slatternly) list:

-photos of my daughters at various stages of ageing

-the lid from a box of condoms

--wrappers from imported candybars (the sleeves only, saved for their
memory-evoking visuals)

--insurance papers from one of my horses

--threatening letters from people who once wanted my patronage, and now
only want my money

--a handy guide to the Toronto subways

-- the showbill from a play participated in by one of my aforementioned
offspring

--a farrier's bill for the uninsured horse I now own

--a peacock feather

--a matchbook cover offering me untold wealth if I sign up to be a
graphic artist...but I am already as graphic as I dare be, so I declined

--various notes written to myself on occasions of great stress

That is not to say I don't have some other items that overlap with the
first list, I just did not want to be redundant.


Susanna

BTW... anyone who wants to talk Ellison off the rab, drop me a line, and
we can chat about his most amazing self

Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:26350 alt.president.clinton:1817
From: bh419@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ted B Samsel)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,alt.president.clinton
Subject: Re: Forcing the Spring
Date: 26 Jan 1993 11:39:33 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Obviously none of you hav a horticultural bent. Forcing bulbs
is a pleasant thing to do... esp. paper white narcissi and croci.
`````
It's nice to do something besides read or bask in the glow of the
VDT.
-- 
Ted....
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.arts.poems
Subject: Re: New prize
Date: 28 Jan 1993 06:36:17 GMT
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
NNTP-Posting-Host: oas.stanford.edu

John McCarthy writes:

	$25 for the best poem celebrating Clinton's inauguration 
	in the style of McGonagle.  Contest closes Friday Feb 4 
	at midnight PST.  Entries should both be posted and emailed 
	to me.  You keep the copyright.  Members of my family are 
	eligible.

	Lay it on thick.

McCarthy misses the point. McGonagle was inspired by disasters. Now
if The Wimp had got in again...

					RABworm
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: kers0205@elan.rowan.edu (CHUCK KERSHENBLATT)
Subject: Jim Carroll
Organization: Rowan College of New Jersey
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 19:22:18 GMT

I read in the NYTimes that Jim Carroll and ASllen Ginsburg are performing at 
the Bottom Line this week (Thurs nite). The last thing I saw of Carroll's 
was the CD he released last year; on one spoken word track he mentions a 
novel he's working on ... Any word about a new Carroll novel? My favorite 
Carroll book is the poetry collection Living At The Movies. He's a 
captivating reader, the shaky voice, the nervousness ... Any Carroll fans?
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: nvecchi@sangiorgio.cscs.ch (Nicole Vecchi)
Subject: Medieval & Renaissance tapestries
Followup-To: nvecchi@cscs.ch
Organization: Centro Svizzero di Calcolo Scientifico / CH-6928 Manno
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 10:34:42 GMT

Could anyone give me a pointer to any recently published books
that cover the topic of tapestries (medieval and renaissance)?

I'd like something with color plates. I'm asking for recently
published books because availability of _all_ books is a problem
in my area and out of print books are impossible. 

Thanks,
Nicole Vecchi
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,alt.censorship
From: mls@panix.com (Michael Siemon)
Subject: Re: Health of Free Speech in USA -- WAS: Re: Censorship
Summary:  query
Organization: Panix Public Access Internet & Unix, NYC
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 04:48:45 GMT

In article <1993Jan26.213508.23709@linus.mitre.org> jon@mitre.org (J. E. Shum)
writes:

>In article <1993Jan26.191036.24226@eff.org>, mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin)
writes:

>> Freedom of the press and freedom of speech have both improved
>> significantly in this country in the last three decades.

>I recommend that you read _Free Speech for Me--But Not for Thee_ by
>Nat Hentoff.  I think it will cause you to reconsider the above
>statement.

I don't think Mike was claiming to live in Utopia.  How familiar are you
with the state of things in the 50s (and early 60s -- say, at the time
Lenny Bruce was being actively suppressed; cf. Howard Stern, who has
vastly less redeeming social value...)  I would second Mike's comment.

-- 
Michael L. Siemon	"We honour founders of these starving cities
mls@panix.com		 Whose honour is the image of our sorrow ...
			 They built by rivers and at night the water
			 Running past the windows comforted their sorrow."
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy)
Subject: Re: Censorship
Reply-To: jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
Date: 25 Jan 93 19:51:42

I believe the Federal Government only banned books in that Customs
could prohibit their import, and the postal service could ban their
transmission through the mails.  Any bans on printing had to be
accomplished via state and local obscenity laws.  The Federal
Government became involved in these only when the Federal Courts were
asked to declare the enforcement of these laws in particular cases in
violation of the Fourteenth Amendment extension of First Amendment
protections to actions by states.

--
John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305
*
He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,alt.president.clinton
From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
Subject: Re: Maya Angelou inaugural poem
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 12:44:12 GMT

In article <1k4r67INN9dk@harpo.uccs.edu> render@massive (Hal Render) writes:
>Gerald Olchowy (golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca) wrote:
>: Angelou also makes one huge politically incorrect faux pas in her
>: poem using the term "Eskimo" for the Inuit...which is akin to using
>: the N-word for African Americans...shame on her.  
>: 
>
>Perhaps she has not talked about the Inuit before and has not had occasion
>to be instructed on the new term.   Perhaps you could of sent her a letter
>explaining the preferred terminology before criticizing her.  Respect for 
>another person often means that you resist criticizing a person for a fault
>of which they are not aware.
>

Inuit is not a new term...the mistake she made is analagous to me going
to the KKK and asking them what to call African Americans, or me going
to a National Socialist and asking them what to call a Jew...if you
want to know what to call the Inuit, you should ask them what they
call themselves...not go to their rivals or competitors and ask them
what they call them.

If I ever used the N-word...African Americans would not excuse my
ignorance if I used the excuse that I asked the KKK what the proper
term to use was.

Gerald


From: cae@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Craig Ehlke)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 20:14:35 GMT
Subject: Re: Vanity Fair, or the long sojourn
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books

> But there were good bits, although I can't recall any now, and
> I do love novels from that era.  I like the Brontes, I like
> Jane Austen, and I like Dickens.   Don't quite know what it is
> that appeals to me - the place, the time, their use of language,
> maybe.  
> 
> Anybody have any other recommendations from this era?
> 
  Try Anthony Trollope, he is my favorite.  Contrast "vanity Fair" with
  "THe Eustice Diamonds".
  
> 
> 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,misc.books.technical
From: Monty Solomon <monty%roscom@think.com>
Subject: Re: Ordering books via Internet?
Followup-To: misc.books.technical
Reply-To: Monty Solomon <roscom!monty@think.com>
Organization: Proponent
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 08:10:21 GMT
Expires: Tue, 9 Feb 1993 08:10:22 GMT

In article <1993Jan24.215834.27770@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>  
jnorman@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John G Norman) writes:
> There was mention in the NY Times today (Sun, 24 Jan 93; business pages)
> of a service by which one can place a book order to a bookstore or
> distributor on the Internet.  Delivery is through the US Postal Service,
> or Federal Express, or whatever.

Quantum Books
4 Cambridge Center
Cambridge MA  02142
+1 617 494 5042
Fax +1 617 577 7282
quanbook@world.std.com

WordsWorth Books
30 Brattle Street
Cambridge MA  02138-3761
+1 617 354 4223
800 899 2202
+1 617 354 1529
Fax +1 617 354 4674
73457.315@compuserve.com

Softpro
112 Mall Road
Burlington MA  01803-5300
+1 617 273 2917
Fax +1 617 273 2499
softpro@world.std.com

Computer Literacy Bookshops, Inc.
PO Box 641897
San Jose, CA  95164-1897
+1 408 435 5017
Fax +1 408 435 1823
orders@clbooks.com
service@clbooks.com
info@clbooks.com

O'Reilly & Associates, Inc.
103 Morris Street
Sebastopol CA  95472
800 998 9938
+1 707 829 0515
Fax +1 707 829 0104
nuts@ora.com
book-info-request@ora.com

-- 
# Monty Solomon / PO Box 2486 / Framingham, MA  01701-0405
# monty%roscom@think.com
From: rsquires@cyclops.eece.unm.edu (Roger Squires)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Book-title modesty
Date: 26 Jan 1993 01:49:14 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
NNTP-Posting-Host: cyclops.eece.unm.edu

> mossman@dipso.Berkeley.EDU (Amy Mossman) writes:
>
>... Reading is becoming
>so frighteningly non-exsistent, and adult illiteracy is on the rise.
>

	I wonder if this is true.  I was in a branch of the public
	library today, and it was packed; lots of zeners, maggots,
	and reffers of course, but also some people looking for
	good fiction and non-fiction, on a Monday afternoon no less.

	Myself, I got _Blood Meridian_ again, to mull over Mr. McDonald's
	reply; Sarah Caudwell's _The Sirens Sang of Murder_ for
	the obligatory mystery (sure to be more successful than 
	Gash's _Jade Woman_; _The Shortest Way to Hades_ was great);
	and Tobias Smollett's xlation of _Don Quixote_.

	The explanation for the latter is that I've decided on a
	long-term goal of learning all the major latinate languages,
	including the parent.  Though slowly moving ahead in a
	beginning latin grammar, I thought it would be good to
	battle on the second front of Spanish, since I have some
	years of instruction here.  So I squandered the flabbergasting
	amount of $55 for La Real Academia two volume paperback
	edition of _DQ_, which as they say, "reune todas las
	caracteristicas de un texto definitivo," and the Pequeno
	Larousse Ilustrado (the only *real* Spanish dictionary
	I could find -- apparently Vox puts one out as well, but
	I could not find a copy to look at) (which brings up the
	subject of what is the best Spanish/English dictionary --
	I chose the Chicago, but perhaps the Compact Vox is best??)

	Anyway, a regreso a Smollett.  I grabbed this off the shelf
	without any critical examination because, firstly, I was
	so impressed that Smollett, whose _Clinker_ I laughed over
	so much had done this, and secondly, the jacket blurb,
	calling this "the finest English xlation ever written."
	But after taking it home in triumph, I see that the wierd
	truncated poetry in front is completely excised, and that
	it appears to be a fairly free xlation.  Can someone recommend
	a *literal* xlation that I could glance at for help while
	reading the Spanish?  

	(BTW, the biggest problem I have is not so much the grammar
	as the vocabulary.  Does anyone have suggestions on books
	or whatever for learning foreign vocabulary???  Shuffling
	three books and using twelve fingers for bookmarks is such
	an incredible godawful almighty hassle that I'm on the point of
	retreating to high school abridgements of classics (actually,
	I've already started one:  El Indio, a Lopez y Fuentes) that
	have a built-in dictionary and notes in back.  And I'm praying
	to the gods that a portable CD-ROM reader with two slots
	(one for the text and notes, another for dictionaries) will
	fall into my lap.)
	
	
>Amy Mossman
>(currently not hiding the title of Nostromo on my commutes)

	All right!  The best of Conrad!  I believe another famous
	rabbette was intending to read this -- you might contact her.

rms
From: nall@ibm12.scri.fsu.edu (John Nall)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Why I signed off this list
Date: 23 Jan 93 02:35:31 GMT
Reply-To: nall@ibm12.scri.fsu.edu (John Nall)
Organization: SCRI, Florida State University

In article <1993Jan22.191132.15471@cs.rochester.edu> garrett@cs.rochester.edu (Bill Garrett) writes:
>In article <11798@sun13.scri.fsu.edu> nall@ibm12.scri.fsu.edu (John Nall) writes:
>>So are you going to sign off the list or not?  These drawn-out goodbyes
>>are bad form :-)

>This thread began when another member of RAB wrote to say goodbye and that
>he was leaving due to the antagonistic nature of the responses to his


   ...

>I don't believe that I ever threatened to sign off the list.  I have

   ...

>I can see how the title of the
>thread may be misleading to someone who has followed all of the postings
>however.

   And even MORE misleading to someone who has *not* followed all of
the postings!  Such as watashi-wa!  But in any event, I was merely
ribbing you a little - I trust no harm done :-)

Yr. Obt., etc.

John

> -Bill
>
>-- 
>Bill Garrett			ARPA: garrett@cs.rochester.edu
>University of Rochester		UUCP: {decvax,rutgers}!rochester!garrett
>Rochester  NY  14627		VOX:  (716) 275-5605


-- 
John W. Nall              | Supercomputer Computations Research Institute
nall@mailer.scri.fsu.edu  | Florida State University, Tallahassee, Florida
  "Why yes, as a matter of fact, I DID vote for Hillary!!" - me
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu
Subject: RE: Heather's Marilyn
Organization: Clark University
Date: 21 JAN 93 15:19:02 GMT

Ron Hogan wrote:

>I seriously question the aesthetic judgment of any film critic who hasn't
>been particularly moved by Dietrich or Monroe at least once, though I imagine
>the same could be said of my failure to be moved by Robert DeNiro... 
>That certain actors display at certain times a degree of skill within a
>performance which excels the norm is not in question.  What I take issue
>with is that that excellence represents a transcendance of the cinema's
>limitations, or that the norm exists due to a hegemonic control by the
>economic infrastructure-- that is, that mediocrity is imposed on the system
>from above-- and that great talents must compromise themselves to work
>within a stultifying medium. 

What he said.

Heather
HHENDERSON@vax.clarku.edu