From: jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: No charges filed in SWAT killing
Date: 20 Aug 92 21:53:39 GMT
Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access.  The Mouth of the South.

cescript@mtu.edu (Charles Scripter) writes:

>> the house in the middle of the night except to rescue innocents.
>> If the cops need to capture a person in a house, they can do it
>> the old fashioned way by staking out the house and capturing the
>> perp coming or going.  

>This seems reasonable, too.  Also, a stake-out would allow the cops to
>determine if the suspect is present, how many "non-combatants" are present,
>etc. (this presumes that the suspect is a "combatant", of course).

Of course, this requires real police work, not the gun-happy, cowboy,
kill-'em-all,let-God-sort-'em-out mentality rampant today.  If you think
I'm kidding, find a way to sit in a ready room sometime and listen
to these goons talk about getting horny during and after a raid.


>> You know, you really ought to find someone who lived in Germany in the 
>> [............]

>I don't see how this is related to Dan's statement.  I agree with the idea
>of letting a Board of Inquiry sort it out.  It is important that _justice_
>be served.  It is important that this shooting be reviewed.   I would be
>surprised if it wasn't tried in court (let the jury sort it out).

It relates in that we are experiencing an incredible parallel to the 
30s where the average German citizen bought off on the hate rhetoric
of the Nazis - remember the Nazis did not come to power via coup, they
were ELECTED by popular vote - and learned to hate a class of people
and thus rationalize the atrocities occuring around them.  Same thing
is happening here.  The evil, baby-killing druggie, capable of nuking 
whole neighborhoods with a single snort, is the modern straw man erected
by the government in order to justify modern day state terrorism.  

Am I the only one who sees the start madness in this situation?
Ignore for a moment the woman being murdered.  Has everyone bought off
on the drug war bit to the extent that commando-style raids on citizen's
houses in the dark of the night is tolerated?  This is supposed to be
America, the land where the government is supposed to be for the people
and not at war with them.

We've seen the government elevate the AR-15 to terrorist status in order
to justify further destruction of the Constitution. We've watched it
create and perpetuate the Drug War on the Constitution, yet another 
failed-by-definition attempt at Prohibition, as the vehicle to finally
destroy the Constitution.  Can anyone anywhere rationalize Civil
Forfeture - otherwise known as state theft - with our Constitutional 
protections?  What liberty is next?  How about if one day the government
declares state-sponsored murder a civil matter in order to abridge 
our rights under the 4th, 5th and 8th amendments?  

I am afraid of the police today.  I know I stand a much greater chance
of being roughed up, stolen from or killed by a pig than by a criminal.
I'm even more afraid of idiot citizens like Dan who appologize for any
transgression, no matter how egregious, that the police make.

Let me make another point about this "war".  If the "bad guys" know
the cops are going to be coming in with machine guns ablaze, what 
incentive is there for them to try to avoid violence?  None.  This is
just like prohibition.  The police started the war and they are 
perpetuating and escalating it with their tactics.  If the police came 
to arrest me and confronted me in a peaceable and non-threatening manner,
I'd go along quietly.  If the same pigs storm my house dressed in 
oh-ah, black ninja outfits and machine guns, I'll try to take out as many
as I can.  Reasonable?  I think so.  Anyone who vacillates on the 
drug war issue shoud consider this point very carefully.

Last point.  If there is a war going on with an enemy that requires 
storm trouper tactics, where are the snipers and the daily police
casualties?  A real urban war, such as in Belfast, has the opponent
actively trying to kill the other.  Seems to me the only time police
get shot at is when they shoot first.

>I don't think he said that.  I think he suggested that Tony's actions
>be reviewed by a Board of Inquiry.

Ain't nothing whiter than the wash smeared on by a Board of Inquiry. 
There is a person in the department where I used to serve as a volunteer
who has killed three "suspects".  He is the chief's son.  None of the
suspects were armed and two were shot in the back.  All these shoots were
blessed by the BOI and the IA investigations.  This punk is still carrying
a license and the means to murder again.  

John

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