From: west@esd.dl.nec.com (Mike West)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: (long) Re: suicide- is it a sin in God's eyes.
Date: 19 Nov 92 07:17:16 GMT
Organization: Engineering and Support Division, NEC America, Inc.

In article <Nov.18.04.16.32.1992.2344@athos.rutgers.edu> you wrote:
: 
: I don't know, most of the cases of suicide I've heard about are not
: people "throwing the package back at God", they are people who are
: really in despair and just don't think they can go on living in this world
: or their environment the way it is for them.
: ...
: I think that considering suicide as a sin really insults the notion of God as
: a loving, all-forgiving being.  It is very easy for someone who has not
: hurt to the point of considering suicide, or who has not known someone
: who has been to that point, to make blanket statements like "suicide is
: a sin" or "suicide is throwing God's most precious gift back into his face".
: ...

I have been close to that point (if not at it) and I have to agree with
the blanket statement that "suicide is a sin".  The main thing that kept
me from suicide back then was that I firmly believed that if I did kill
myself that I was going straight to hell.  I now know that is incorrect;
it is a sin, but not an unpardonable sin.

: ...
: Once again, if someone decides to commit suicide, they haven't necessarily
: decided that God doesn't exist or doesn't care.  They may believe in God
: very heavily and feel that they cannot endure the pain of their current
: situation and want (or need) to be with God sooner.

But see, that gets back to the heart of it.  If you believe that the pain
of your situation is beyond what you can bear, then you are denying the
promise of God to give you strength for every situation.  By giving up
and killing yourself you are denying God's promise of hope and are going
against His Will.

Additionally it is wrong because, by committing suicide, you are
intentionally hurting those who love you.  You are blatantly saying,
"I know you love me, but I don't care!"  It causes sever emotional
devistation to those around you, and is often an intended part of
the suicide.

And besides all that you can probably even consider suicide murder because
it is the premeditated killing of a person (yourself).

: Please people, I'm not condoning suicide.  I think it is a very sad
: thing that
: it ever occurs.  I just think that instead of dealing with it by condemning
: it,
: we should try to be there for people considering it, to give them another
: option.  We may not know who it is that is considering it and who isn't 
: though, but if we are living a life of love, forgiveness, compassion, and
: non-judgementalness (a word??) then the chances of us making a
: difference for those people or them having someplace to turn is all that
: much greater.

I agree that we should be offering love, compassion, and more importantly,
hope and assistance to all who are in need of it, especially those who
currently cannot deal with their circumstances.  If a person has killed
himself, they we need to comfort those left behind.  If that person was
a Christian, then we can rest with the knowledge that he is now with
the Lord and we will get to see him again and assure those left behind
of this.

However, I also think that we should condemn suicide as the sin that it
is.  It tells God you do not believe His promises and cannot trust Him.
It tells your loved ones they are not important.  It deeply hurts, actually
devistates, those who love us the most.

I don't see why you seem to think that by condemning the action we cannot
help those who are considering it.  Actually, it would seem to me that
by telling a person that suicide is the wrong way to handle their situation
and (if the person is a Christian) that it is completely dishonoring to
God, we are helping more than saying that suicide is a valid solution!
Telling someone that suicide is a valid solution is just making the
situation *worse*.

And when dealing with the aftermath of a suicide, wouldn't acknowledging
the suicide as a sin *help* those left behind by telling them they did
nothing wrong;  the one who killed himself did the wrong.  To them.

: I've done a lot of thinking about suicide since my dad killed himself 17 
: years ago (I was 12 at the time).  He was an extremely loving person who
: very much believed in God.   I didn't understand things at the time, but I
: know a lot more about the situation now, and I fully believe that he is
: with God now.  
: 
: So try to be understanding about suicide and what leads to it.  Often it
: is induced by an uncaring and judgemental society which does not allow 
: people to express their problems when they have them or to be 
: themselves.

Again, I am not saying that someone who commits suicide is instantly and
irrevocably sentenced to hell.  A person's salvation is completely
independant of any one sin he has ever committed, including suicide.
(It depends only on his relationship with Jesus Christ.)  But suicide is
still a sin, and will always be the wrong way for a person to "express
their problems".

Mike West
west@esd.dl.nec.com