HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Subject: Re: Christian Census
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 13 Sep 92 07:31:28 GMT

In article <209ZqB2w165w@brewich.hou.tx.us> popec@brewich.hou.tx.us (Pope Charles) writes:
>Bolt yer doors and pull down the curtains!  Here they come.  September 
>20th a number of evangelical churches are going to hold what they call 
>"The Christian Census".  That is, on that date they intend to have a 
>massive door to door campaign designed to ask every man, woman and child 
>in America, "have you found Jesus"?  Just thot you all would like to 
>know. 
>  You hear the knock on the door.  You know it's 'them'.  You go to the 
>door, you open it and you say................................

I didn't know he was lost.

Jeez, can't you keep track of him, either?

Nope.  Sure gets around doesn't he?

Sure.  Just saw him at Orange Julius the other day sitting next to Elvis.

Lemme get my cars keys; I lose *everything* in those damned cushions.

Pal, I haven't even found my sunglasses since last week. 

Look, if you can't even keep track of your own deity, you need more help
than me.

Waitaminit, lemme check my sock drawer.  

This could go on forEVER!!!!

Blessings,
Janis *rim shot*




Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: AS.AAM@forsythe.stanford.edu (Astrid Mustard)
Subject: pagans in Ann Arbor?
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 14:09:46 GMT


My friend is moving to Ann Arbor in Michigan.  Are there any good
stores that are Pagan oriented.  Also, are there any local hangouts
or even local publications that serve as a forum for such ideas?

A. Mustard
sammi@forsythe.stanford.edu
From: radzy@ICSI.Berkeley.EDU (T. O. Radzykewycz)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: pagan self-defense
Date: 9 Sep 92 00:46:24 GMT
Organization: International Computer Science Institute, Berkeley, CA, U.S.A.

radzy@ICSI.Berkeley.EDU (T. O. Radzykewycz) writes:
[...]
> So, if you do those things and still want the gun, then go
> ahead and get it/them.  Then, follow some basic safety
> precautions. (e.g. Don't leave the gun loaded, or easily
> accessible to anyone.)

donal@brewich.hou.tx.us (Donal) responds:
> Tim... Do you really think that if an intruder is in your house you 
> are going to have the time and presence of mind to load your gun?

A revolver -- no.

A pistol with a clip -- sure thing.  It takes about a half second,
and it's loaded.

If you don't have the presence of mind to load the gun -- then
you shouldn't be using the gun!  Remember what I said about
shooting the dog or your kid!  For this, it doesn't matter if
you're using a revolver or a clip.

As for locking it up, I imagine that for most situations, you
know there's an intruder well before s/he gets to where you're
at.  It should take about 20 seconds to unlock the gun, and that
should usually be enough.  If not, then you probably couldn't
SAFELY get to where the gun's at regardless of whether it's
locked up or not.

> Did you know that the average exchange of gunfire takes place
> at less than 12 feet and takes less than 4 seconds?

This is misleading.  Do you know how long it is between when the
intruder ENTERS THE HOUSE and when the shooting takes place?
That's what determines whether you'll have time to get to the
gun (and unlock it), NOT the time between the first shot and the
end of the incident.


I repeat what I said:

Keep the gun unloaded.  It's OK to have a full clip near the
gun, though.

Keep the gun locked up.  If you don't have time to get it and
unlock it, you don't have time to use it wisely.
                                         ^^^^^^

Periodic training is vital.

Either be willing to use the gun to KILL someone if necessary,
or don't have the gun in the first place.


Blessings to those of you without guns.

MORE blessings to those of you who *do* get guns.  You need the
blessings more!

		-- radzy

------------------------------------------------------------
					|  An it harm none,
	T. O. Radzykewycz	     	|  do as ye will.
	The Incredible Radical Cabbage	|
					|  "Just pray for a
	radzy@cogsci.berkeley.edu       |  tough hide and a
	        			|  tender heart."
	        			|    -- Ruth Graham
------------------------------------------------------------
Tribal Mother was old, and lay ill on a bed of moss and
fern.   Her hair was long and grey.   Her face was very
wrinkled.    Tamura'nun-pa thought:   How beautiful you
are, Mother, so old and wise.
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: mongoose@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Conrad Leviston)
Subject: Re: Variations of Sword in Stone (re: Celtic)
Organization: Monash University General Access Unix
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 10:30:51 GMT

Paul Harvey (pharvey@quack.sac.ca.us) wrote:
: In article <79314@ut-emx.uucp> evc@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Edward Van Cura) writes:
: >[If this is double-posted, it is not intentional. ---Thorfinn]
: 
: Yes, it was. First I was quiet, but now ...
: 
: >"At Tara stood the Lia Fail ("stone of Fal"), the "stone penis" which
: >cried out when it came in contact with the man destined to be king."
: 
: That's the Indo-European stone phallus, right? Why did I say I-E? If I
: recall correctly, it shows up in several mythologies. Like caves or
: cauldrons for women, right? Or is that too obvious?
: 
: >Could this be the Celtic origin of the Sword in the Stone myth?
: 
: I really don't think so. Are you trying to make a Grail King connection?
: It seems to me that the sword in the stone is pretty basic. Some great
: person puts it there and probably dies or leaves and only the "rightful"
: succesor can remove it. A way to hand down, or a way to leave a symbolic
: test of "rightness". Kind of a Jeti Knight type thing.
: 
	This stone phallus was one of the five treasures brought over by
the Tuatha De Danaan (no Grendle, not the Anglo Saxon pantheon gggrrrr.).
The others were a sword (the sword of Lugh I think, and no doubt also
Excalibur), a spear, a cauldron (the grail) and a shield. The fifth is not
always tallied with these, but it does round out the numbers nicely.
	These treasures aren't often associated with the King Arthur
legends to my knowledge, but at least one source (admittedly quite
dubious) does. I believe the stone is also known as the coronation stone,
and its whereabouts are hotly debated.
	I must appologise, as this posting relies on my (rather bad)
memory, and not all the information is in the state that it came to me in.
If I get anything wrong just write up an angry post. Everybody did with
the runes in spite of the fact that I was right. |-)
	I didn't take any offence really.

-- 
Conrad Leviston	 | Got to find a brightness in the soul,
mongoose@yoyo.	 | Not look outside to find out where we are,
cc.monash.edu.au | Otherwise you won't be satisfied, 
Save the gherkin | 'Til you've made possession of the stars. (K.Wallinger)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: altheimm@nextnet.csus.edu (Murray Altheim)
Subject: Re: REVIEW- _Pagans and Christians_
Organization: California State University Sacramento
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 23:01:46 GMT

In article <1992Sep11.202403.9184@nntp.uoregon.edu> JBrandt@AAA.UOregon.EDU (Pegasus) writes:
><Posted for Pegasus by Jay Brandt>
>
>Fox, Robin Lane  .Pagans and Christians.  New York, NY: Alfred A. Knoph
>1987 (BR/128/.R7L36/1986)
>
>     Robin Lane Fox, has written a book that should be read by everyone who
>calls themselves Pagan.  This book is about the time period known as the
>late Roman Empire, with a very sympathetic view of the pagans that lived
>then. [...]
>     This book I hope will be the first in a long list of books written by
>people who are sympathetic to the Pagans, or Pagans themselves in the
>Academic world.  [...]

>Pegasus

Pegasus,

Thank-you for taking the trouble to post the review of Fox's book. I'm about
half-way through his other book, "The Unauthorized Version" right now, and
have been recommending both books to my friends interested in early 
Christianity, the "fall" of pagan society in the Roman empire, etc. My recent
posts decrying my search for a scholarly bible come from reading "The 
Unauthorized Version" which I'm finding very informative. 

I must take a little issue with the idea that Fox is "sympathetic" to pagans.
I didn't find that to be particularly true, insofar as I didn't feel he was
pushing his personal beliefs.  The best teachers somehow teach without
giving you this impression. There has been a small revolution recently in 
historians' approaches to writing history, in an attempt to remove some of 
the past biases. I feel Fox is putting considerable energy into remaining
objective in the face of such a contentious subject matter, to his due credit.

Whether or not he is a pagan he has left appropriately to his private life.

Blessings,

Murray

-- 
Murray M. Altheim      "Ils ont l'orteil de Bouc, & d'un Chevreil l'oreille,
Instructional Consultant    La corne d'un Chamois, & la face vermeille
CSU, Sacramento          Comme un rouge Croissant: & dancent toute nuict
altheimm@csus.edu       Dedans un carrefour, ou pres d'une eau qui bruict."
From: ijd@hplb.hpl.hp.com (Ian J Dickinson)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 13:59:42 GMT
Subject: Re: pagan self-defense
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Bristol, UK.
From: altheimm@nextnet.csus.edu (Murray Altheim)
Subject: Re: "Jesus did not claim divinity" (WHY ?)
Organization: California State University Sacramento
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 21:10:43 GMT

In article <BuBpqG.Hty@encore.com> aaldrich@encore.com (Al Aldrich) writes:
>Is it just me or is this Jesus thread in the wrong newsgroup?
>I for one am not particularly interested in whether Jesus
>is/was/claimed divinity or not.
>
>This is not a shot..just an observation.
>
>Blessed Be
>/al

Al, 

I suppose strictly speaking any discussion of Jesus or Christianity 
would seem more appropriate to a Christian newsgroup, but as a practicing
pagan whose interests in Christology, Gnostic and other "alternative"
Christian beliefs, if you've ever tried having a sensible, reasoned 
discussion on the Christian newsgroup, it's impossible. The screaming
by the Christian right, as well as the e-mail and chanting for your
salvation is almost unbearable.

I mentioned in a post a few weeks ago my trials in trying to buy a 
decent old testament bible. I called all over town, but whenever I 
tried to explain that I was searching for a "scholarly" bible, the 
salesperson would rather rudely exclaim that they "did not CARRY any
LIBERAL bibles here, sir!" Followed by a harumph or two.

I've found most pagans open to discussing many of these topics, as many
of us were raised in a Christian household and are curious to understand
where in hell this whole Christian mess came from. Quite a few are looking
for "ammunition" when dealing with Christians in discussions; some with
our parents; some out of scholarly interest; and others who don't 
make a clear separation between "Pagan" and "Christian" religion. Myself,
well I guess I'm a combination of all the above. I've actually been contem-
plating pursuing my Masters in Christology or a similar vein.

You can always skip the posts. Usually the titles are indicative. I don't
think anybody posts to be annoying (aside from the obvious attempts at
conversion from the Colvins et al.). 

Blessings,

Murray

-- 
Murray M. Altheim      "Ils ont l'orteil de Bouc, & d'un Chevreil l'oreille,
Instructional Consultant    La corne d'un Chamois, & la face vermeille
CSU, Sacramento          Comme un rouge Croissant: & dancent toute nuict
altheimm@csus.edu       Dedans un carrefour, ou pres d'une eau qui bruict."
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: lib1p@jane.uh.edu (Tammy Stark Blandino)
Subject: Re: Favorite Bible Verses
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 02:09:00 GMT

>Paul a deciple of Christ said

Sorry Chris, I have to go against you on this one.  Paul may have
called himself a disciple of Christ, but he never even met Christ
much less studied under him.

Quite frankly, I think Jesus taught his disciples more than he
taught to the masses.  After all, could a society at the state
that society was in be able to understand much less make use of
an advanced teaching.  (One that would be considered occultic
by today's standards.)

I think it is important to note that Paul was a roman.  Romans
had very different ideas than the ones Christ was espousing.  
This is why they feared him so much.  Paul imposed a *VERY*
roman view upon his cult of Christian teaching.  (There were many
different groups claiming to be followers of Christ.  Pauls is the
one that won out.  Mainly because he had a stronger internal
"governmental" structure, much like the roman government it was
patterned after.)

Also remember, Chris, that the idea was to refute the bible in the
same manner that Christians refute non-bible doctrines.  These are
not our tactics, but ones we learned from so-called Christians.
If most Christians followed the teachings of Christ and not those
of Paul we would have a much happier society.

Actually, I am a pagan who has found much validity in the teachings
of the man Jesus.  If you strip away all the bullsh*t that *MAN*
has added on you will find some very valid truths.

Love to all,
Tammy
From: casspa@atlantis.CS.ORST.EDU (Paul Cass)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: yet another weensy question from you-know-who
Date: 8 Sep 92 19:25:12 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Outreach Services - Oregon State University

In article <LRsqqB1w165w@ailanth.UUCP> ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com (Ailsa N.T. Murphy) writes:
>> There are lots of sand dollars on the Oregon Coast.
>>
>yet another inducement to move to oregon!  sand dollars are hard to find on the
>maine.  are they more common in oregon?  are there other neat shell-cretures?
>
>*sigh*  accpeting donations to change coasts!
>
>                                             -ailsa
>
We do indeed have a number of neat shell creatures.  We also have a fair
number of shell-brain cretins who are rapidly getting their anti-human
initiative shot down.
BB
Paul
>
>
>
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
>                    ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com
> I wish her insight to battle love's blindness            ________
> Strength from the milk of human kindness         Silence \      / Action
> A safe place for all the pieces that scattered      =     \    /    =
> Learn to pretend there's more than love           Death    \  /    Life
>                                  that matters               \/


-- 
                          * * * * * * *
"It is possible to join forces, to identify common goals, and to agree on
 common action." - U.N. World Commission on Development and Environment
		       casspa@jacobs.cs.orst.edu
From: usr77@pil.UUCP
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: hi, I'm back             (from alizard)
Date: 13 Sep 92 23:15:53 GMT


I lost access to the site from which I was getting this newsgroup, hopefully,
this site will work out a bit better...

So I'll get caught up here and have something intelligent to say shortly.

I'm still interested in reactions (e.g. constructive ones) to my previous
post regarding a planned pagan bashing by Xtian fundies entitled "You REALLY
aren't going to like this".

Bright Blessings
A.Lizard

(formerly alizard@drc.uucp)
From: ijd@hplb.hpl.hp.com (Ian J Dickinson)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 09:56:04 GMT
Subject: Re: Variations of Sword in Stone (re: Celtic)
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Bristol, UK.
From: ciaran@county.lmt.mn.org (Ciaran Benson)
Subject: Re: Christian Census
Reply-To: ciaran@county.lmt.mn.org (Ciaran Benson)
Organization: LaserMaster Technologies, Minneapolis, MN
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 16:47:29 GMT


In article <209ZqB2w165w@brewich.hou.tx.us>, popec@brewich.hou.tx.us (Pope 
Charles) writes:

> You hear the knock on the door.  You know it's 'them'.  You go to the 
> door, you open it and you say................................

  Usually, they show up when we're knee-deep in planting a tree
or painting the barn or forking straw out of the loft ...

  They usually sit in the van and look us over, covered in
whatever we're working on, hands full of impliments of
destruction, and finally someone steps out and walks up.

  My father taught me alot about these kinds of encounters,
and I like to use the method I saw him using.

  I listen to their introduction, thank them for coming out,
let them know that I really respect the kind of courage that
it takes to drive out to someone's house and introduce ideas
that are not always well received, and that I'm very moved
by the strength of their convictions.

  Then I say I'm not interested.  I disagree with much of their
solutions to problems.  I believe that the answer lies in
each of us and that any divine measurement of our lives
will be of our actions and committments, not our beliefs or
reverence.

  If they persist, I tell them that I'm not a member of the
"great commission".  I am not of the church.

  If they persist (or whip out on of those "witnessing to 
pagans" booklets), I tell them that I am very active in
my temple in the Twin Cities, and am not interested in talking
with them about their religion.

  I honestly do respect the conviction and courage it takes
to do the kind of witnessing that their religion requires. I
tell them that, talk with them about what we're working on, 
how the corn is doing, what the weather might be like, and
how their trip is doing; "have you been having a good day?"

  They're there, generally, because they're concerned.  I
want to aleviate their concern without having to explain my
lack of interest in their concern.  But I don't want to be
rude.

  We live in a small town, after all, and eventually it might
be our field that's on fire, or our house that gets hit by
a tornado.  So far everyone out our way seems to think that
we're good, kind, and responsible neighbors who get up to
some "funny Indian goings on" now and then, but generally
turn out when there's a need.

  It's a very practical kind of tolerance.

  It'll be interesting if that census makes it to us, though.

  Maybe we'll finally be able to quantify how many "pagans"
there really are in America.

  Blessed be, Ciaran.

------------------------
Ciaran@county.lmt.mn.org                 Not an LM spokesbeing

  "... hey but I don't care cause sometimes I said sometimes I hear
    my voice and it's been HERE silent all these years" -- TORI AMOS
From: cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: pagan self-defense
Date: 10 Sep 92 19:36:56 GMT
Organization: University of California, Irvine

In article <1992Sep10.170407.20493@csus.edu> altheimm@nextnet.csus.edu (Murray Altheim) writes:
>
>If I was home, it would be another matter, and the one we've all been 
>talking about. I don't own a gun, nor a sword. I have a hunting knife near
>the bed and a fighting staff behind the door, for the two instances I
>would surely dread: someone trying to force their way past me after opening
>the door, or somebody already in my place. A judgement call on using the
>knife would then be forthcoming.

I've just realized that there is an interesting little non sequitur
popping up.  You use the phrase judgement call, and Ciaran (who is a he
BTW) describes what it's like to kill a living thing.  (BTW, whe I say
"popping up," I don't mean that you guys are being deliberately
inconsistent, I'm just saying that this popped into my head when I was
thinking about the issue.)  

Guns are bad news around little kids.  However, if you want to insure
that you'll use one when the time comes, have one.  I assure you (and
this is coming from a woman who gets cold shakes at the mere IDEA of
getting pregnant), if I had a kid and someone broke into my place, I'd
slit their throat and drink a toast to them with their own blood.

I feel the same way about my SO, TMM.  If I were in a place by myself,
I'd think about hiding or getting out.  However, if the burglar were
threatening TMM, he'd have a hole in his skull so big it would whistle.
I don't like the idea of having a gun even though I am an excellent
shot, and I don't like killing things.  But, if someone breaks in, I
MUST assume that they are armed, and I will kill them as soon as the
opportunity presents itself.  I have no qualms whatsoever about doing
it.  As far as I'm concerned, the burglar is the one who forced the
issue; he wouldn't be dead if he hadn't broken into my place to start
with.  The entire chain of events was put into motion by THEM, and if
they bear the consequences, too damned bad. 

Pretty strong for someone who's anti-death penalty (I think.  My
personal mental jury is still out on that one). 

However, I do agree with Murray; this isn't exactly alt.pagan material
any longer . . .

>If my circumstances warranted, yes, I would consider buying a pistol, but
>I have yet to find the need. I hope to never need one. On the other hand, I
>might be a LOT more likely if I had a family to protect. 

My thoughts exactly. 

>I probably would
>own one then. And I would learn how to use it. I was a pretty good shot as
>a kid (out on the farm with a rifle), and I'd assuredly be at the target
>range until I felt proficient.

Keep going anyway; target shooting is fun. 

>This sure is a hateful subject, isn't it!  :-(

You ain't kidding. 

>Blessings and cautions,
>
>The PseudoPacifist Murray

Hm.  "Pseudopacifist."  I like the sound of that.

Blessings,
Janis the Other Pseudopacifist
From: st923058@pip.cc.brandeis.edu (Rosaleen Dhu)
Subject: hazeleyes again
Reply-To: st923058@pip.cc.brandeis.edu
Organization: Brandeis University
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 14:26:44 GMT

I didn't mean to claim that there WAS anything magickal about hazel eyes. I
just wanted to know if anyone had heard that there WAS.
Bryan: Bard-Initiate? Me too. I've also had precog dreams, although my
talents lie more in the direction of Peacekeeping and therefore my dreams
tend to be related to potential conflict, usualy not mine. If you want, 
e-mail me some time and we can talk.
				Rosaleen Dhu
From: jmm25@po.CWRU.Edu (Jessica M. Mcgeary)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: "Jesus did not claim divinity" Part 1
Date: 13 Sep 1992 21:39:33 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


I think I forgot to mention that, according to the bible study
classes (don't look at me like that, they're studies in the history
of ancient israel as per historical evidence, cross-referenced with 
the bible, specially designed to show the gaping holes), the Bible
in general is about as reliable as the Ballad of Casey Jones when it
comes to history. The Gospels were written by people who went and talked
to folks who said they'd known Jesus or had encounters with Jesus. Mark,
supposedly, was the first written, around 70, and only written down
during the Roman persecutions. Matthew and Luke used Mark for most of
the source material, and they went to a few of the other people who
were still alive, or had relatives who claimed to know Jesus/disciples/etc.
The OT's even worse... let me put it this way. The Synoptics=Ballad of
Casey Jones. John- John is about as reliable as, oh, John Henry. Maybe-
MAYBE- John Henry was based in fact. Or maybe not. Casey Jones was based
on a real engineer- very loosely indeed. Possibly the same deal with 
the rest of the NT. The OT- mostly poetry, legends, etc. wadded into one.
That sort of thing I can deal with.
-- 
Jessica McGeary
jmm25@po.cwru.edu
Case Western Reserve University
Remember! Arguments should be FUN!