From: eliedw@hedda.uio.no (Elie Dib Wardini)
Subject: Re: Representatives on Lebanon
Organization: UiO
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 10:51:54 GMT

In article <1992Nov15.213916.15843@trl.oz.au> faris@sarcasm.trl.OZ.AU (Aziz
Faris) writes:


>Elie, the texts from Ugarit undicate the following:
>1. The language used there is very close to the Pheonician language of Sidon,
>Tyre, and Byblos. It is also close to the Hebrew language, and it was written
>using Alphabets.

Yes, Ugaritic uses an alphabetic system. Yet you are wrong in saying that
Ugaritic is very close to the Phoenician language of Sidon, Tyre and Byblos.
And that it is very close to the Hebrew language. I myself have read some
Ugaritic text (in Ugaritic and not translation) and I understand very well the
contension of many scholarts who donmot want to place Ugaritic as part of the
Canaanite dialects. What we should also do, is deffirentiate between language
(as analysed in the 20th. cent. AD) and geography.

I personally lean towards seeing Ugaritic as a Canaanite dialect, but the issue
is not as clear as you would have it.

>2. The religion was Pheonician with some Canaanite elements in it as evidenced
>by the texts from Ebla which is about 60 Km East of Ugarit. The religious
>texts substantiated the story of Philo about the religion that the Pheonicians
>have practiced as written by the Pheonician Preist Sanchathuthian (spelling?.)

Aziz, Phoenician is the name given to the Cannanites who lived from Akko to
Arwad. Thus to differenciate between Phoenician and Canaanite as you do is
incorrect, unless you can state that a certain Canaanite element was only found
in Lebanon and not any other Canaanite areas. Remember Philo of Byblos was
writing under a very Hellinized era, thus used the term Phoenician not
Cannanite. Even in Cartago at the time of Augustine (4th cent. AD.!) the
inhabitants called themselves Canaanites while the Romans called them Puni
(from Phoenician).

>3. Through these texts, Bilblical scholars have come to agree on the origins
>of the Judeo-Christian beleifs and they beleive that they originated with the
>Pheonicians. The texts of Ebla also shed knowledge as to the source of beleif
>that the Ugarit texts have transmitted. Ebla was a Canaanite Empire that dates
>to 2500BC, and its Language is know as Nort-West dialect of the ancient
>Canaanite language.

The language of Ebla is not very well analysed. There is much discussion about
it too. It seems (as my professor indicates to me) that the daily language of
Ebla was a Canaanite dialect yet the written language was Akkadian.

Whe we today analyse a language and say it is Canaanite, we do from linguistic
crteria which we have decided. Some define Canaanite as all North-west semitic
dialects except Aramiac. Others use other criteria. THis should be
deffirentiated from Geography.

>
>The texts of Ebla indicate that the Canaanites have occupied the entire area
>from North Syria to Palestine including Lebanon. The Arameans occupied the
mid-
>regions of Syria including damascus and the southern regions and possibly
>some parts of present day Jordan. The Canaanites may have also occupied parts
>of Iraq as evidenced by the tablets of Ebla. Also the Arameans which are also
>related to the Amorites (Hammurabi is an Amorite) only appeared around 1800
BC.
>The Canaanites date to 2500 BC and earlier.

The borders have fluctuated, yet it is generally seen that the geographical
borders of Canaan lay a little north of the present Lebanon borders.

Ugarit is outside Canaan proper so was Ebla.

The term Aramaean is not related to the term Amorite.

Note that northern Syria and Iraq the later Aram was at first Akkad (and its
empire) and then Assyria. With the rise of the Aramaeans, it became Aram.


>Again based on some translated Egyptian texts that account a discussion
between
>a representitive of the king of Egypt and the king of Byblos, the Egyptians
>referred to them as Finkh as translated. I do not know if this is Greek, the
>tablet dates to about 1100 BC. In that same texts they refer to the crew of
the
>merchant ships as Syrian (perhaps it is translated), 

Very interesting, can you tell me which Egyptian texts?

>It would be part of present day Syria and Pheonicia of the past. Remember, the
>Pheonician kingdoms stretched along the coast from Jaffa in Palsetine to parts
>of present day Turkey.

This is not correct. Arwad is generally given as the northern border of Canaan
and Phoenicia. It is true that some Phoenician inscriptions are found in
turkey, but this is because of the Phoencian cultural influnce rather than
being a phoenician presence in the area.

>The Pheonicians are beleived to come from the Pesian
>Gulf based on Herodotus, archeological evidence at Byblos have revealed
>that there was an ealier non-Pheonican culture there. Also excavations in
>Palestine near the dead sea have revealed Pheonician artifacts and it is
>beleived they migrated through the Negev and Palestine.

The non-semitic pre-Canaanite finds in Byblos are known, can you be more
specific of which finds show that the Phoenicians came through the negev and
Palestine?

>|> Can you tell me which Egyptian texts? I am not aware of the name Syria beng
>|> used in Egyptian texts. But if you are reading translations, learn that the
>|> word Aram (and sometimes areas outside of Aram, as Lebanon for example) are
>|> termed Syria by the translators (English) and the term does not occur in
the
>|> original. eg. every occurence of the term Syria in the english Bible is
>|> translated from the wrod Aram.
>
>I am not sure about this,

I am, for I read the old testament and teach its language. I have checked it.
For you to make sure that what I say is true, check Young's anaytical
conconrdance. It give the Hebrew word for the English translation.

>however, Aram does not share a border with the sea
>and it makes be suspicious that a crew of a ship would be Arameans as
indicated
>by the text.

I am not sure if the geographical borders of Aram did in fact border the coast.
I will check it out.



etc. etc. about Hafez el-Assad

Syria is an occupying force in Lebanon. Let those Lebanese who want Syria to
stay, make Syria stay in their areas!

As ar as we being one people, it is said: it takes two bears to tango!  :-)

You want to be one "people" with the Lebanese, I have nothing against those
Lebanese who desire such a thing, as long I always will have the freedom to
decide for myself.

>
>Aziz
>


elie wardini