HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: met48546@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Marc E. Talbot)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Re: good program
Date: 25 Jul 92 20:04:22 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

joni@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (joni.dunlap) writes:

>I'm curious about what people think about if people, lets say with at least
>five years of abstenance from what ever, are still smoking cigarettes are
>truly working a good program? Tobacco is a deadly drug and smoking is an
>addiction.

>Comments?

>Joni :)

Uh-oh!  Time to get defensive! :-)
Although I'll grant that nicotine is a drug, I think you really have to
make a distinction between a mind-altering drug and nicotine.  I'm not
going to mug anyone for a pack of smokes (and no, it's NOT 'cause their
only $2/pack), I'm not going to drop out of school because I stay out
smoking cigarettes all night instead of studying.  I'm not going to
lose my job because I have tobacco on my breath (although some people
won't come to close to me!)
On the other hand, it IS an addiction, and there are definitely some
chemical changes going on in my brain (just talk to a heavy smoker who's
been off cold turkey for about 36 hours - you'll find a raging bear
inside the meekest of people!).
However, I think it would be a long shot to say that I am not working
my program well because I still smoke.  My purpose is to stay clean and
sober today, meaning being able to make rational decisions affecting my
life today.  My nicotine addiction does take over every couple hours and
request (very strongly) that I feed it for about 4 minutes.  I do not
believe, however, that this interferes with my ability to function as
a productive member of society (although there are a lot of no-smoking
places that I'd rather not have to stay in for too long :-) !)

Marc
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: suhre@meltami.dsd.trw.com ()
Subject: 12step Mailing List Exists
Originator: suhre@meltami.dsd.trw.com
Reply-To: suhre@meltami.dsd.trw.com ()
Organization: TRW Space & Defense
Distribution: alt
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 00:24:50 GMT

While I'm not soliciting for additional members, there is a mailing
list.  One of the guidelines is that the efficacy of the *A programs is
not a subject for debate.  The others are standard anonymity
considerations and net.etiquette.

If you would like to be on the list, send me your name and mail path.
I would also appreciate a phone number in the event of mail troubles.

-- 
Maurice Suhre
suhre@trwrb.dsd.trw.com
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: cah@tyr.JPL.NASA.gov (Allen Halsell)
Subject: Re: Time to Split alt.recovery ???
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, NASA/Caltech
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 19:22:40 GMT

In article <1992Jul27.150245.12337@Cadence.COM>, jerpseth@sd.cadence.com (James Jerpseth) writes:
> Perhaps it is time for this newsgroup to split into groups which would more
> specifically deal with the problem at hand like:
> 
> alt.recovery.aa 
> alt.recovery.oa 
> alt.recovery.alanon
> alt.recovery.rr

Leaving the sarcasm aside, if this takes place there might also be 
alt.recovery.misc (for those smaller groups) or alt.recovery.discussion
where some of the pro-12 and anti-12 stuff would be sent.

I'm assuming ACA doesn't go to alt.r.whiners ...

*********************************************************************
the only thing that speaks the truth is the eloquence of passing time
               the spoken word is a jacket too tight
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: jnynge@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Subject: a question
Reply-To: jnynge@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 18:13:29 GMT

What does ETOH mean??  I saw this in a previous post and have seen
it before but can't remember what it stands for.
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: maxwell@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Mark Story)
Subject: 0 days again
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 04:13:37 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523

Oh well...

Mark
From: peggys@orca.TEKTRONIX.COM
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Re: i do it for myself
Date: 23 Jul 92 17:42:50 GMT
Reply-To: peggys@orca.wv.tek.com
Organization: Network Displays Manufacturing, Tektronix,Inc

In article <1992Jul23.151944.3040@csc.ti.com>,
moiram@sacajawea.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Moira Mallison) writes:

> Gabriel Decio writes:
> >> >I mean this posting to be a friendly one.  I just do not understand
> >> >how people with poor self-images and a devastating sense of
> >> >powerlessness (over the self, that is) can enhance the very crux of
> >> >their lives to seek recovery.
> 
> I understand that for some people, the 12 steps in general and AA, in
> particular, have saved their lives, and any hint that it is not the
> optimum solution for someone else threatens your recovery.  But what
> happens when you attack anyone who honestly questions the program,
> even in an effort to gain more understanding of it, is that you make
> this an unsafe place for those people to post.   I notice we haven't
> heard a word from Christina since Jim P. blasted her a couple weeks
> ago.
> So maybe this is part of your plan.  Attack the dissenters and
> alt.recovery will become alt.aa.  
> 
> Moira  

I would like to agree with Moira on this.  Personally, I found Gabriel's post
very enlightening.  I have read over the 12 step programs and didn't feel that
they would do much for me (eating disorder & ACoA).  I salute those of you
that do use this program and I'm glad that you were able to find it works
wonderfully for you...it just doesn't for me.  There are definitely more
12 steppers in this group than not, but for those of us who aren't please
allow us to have our say also so that this does not become strictly a group
for those following 12 step programs.  If that's the case perhaps there should
be another group, if there isn't already.

Just my $.02

...sometimes yer the windshield...sometimes yer the bug...
					Peggy

           ===================================================
          | Peggy Shock  				      |
          | Tektronix, Inc., Network Displays Division	      |
          | PO Box 1000, MS 60-430, Wilsonville, OR 97070     |
          | (503) 685-2030 - email: peggys@orca.WV.TEK.COM    |
           ===================================================
From: gpotts@hebb.uoregon.edu
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Re: good program
Date: 24 Jul 92 16:42:37 GMT
Organization: University of Oregon Network Services

In article <1992Jul23.192448.17138@cbfsb.cb.att.com> joni@cbnewsf.cb.att.com
(joni.dunlap) writes:
>I'm curious about what people think about if people, lets say with at least
>five years of abstenance from what ever, are still smoking cigarettes are
>truly working a good program? Tobacco is a deadly drug and smoking is an
>addiction.
>
>Comments?
>
>Joni :)
>
	I think that if I'm worrying about other peoples programs, I'm being
codependent and need to work my side of the street.

	For me, I was about three years clean (off alcohol, cocaine, heroin,
etc., etc., etc.) when I quit smoking cigarettes. To quit, I had to change
my attitude towards tobacco so that I now regard it as just another life
threatening, addictive substance. For me, recovery is not abstinence, it is
a journey towards mental, physical, and spiritual health. As a part of that
journey, I need to stop ingesting ALL life threatening, addictive
substances. So tobacco had to go.

	I wrestled for quite a while about whether I should change my clean date
or not. Rigorous honesty seemed to dictate that that I should change my date
to the day I quit smoking. On the other hand, I'm still doing things like
sugar and red meat which could go in the same category as tobacco. So I
decided, for once in my life, to give myself a break and reward myself for
making a positive change rather than punishing myself for not doing it
sooner. I kept my clean date the same and went out and bought myself a new
jacket as a reward.

	It's been more than 5 years since I've had a cigarette after 20 years of
smoking.

--geoff
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: suhre@meltami.dsd.trw.com ()
Subject: Recovery
Originator: suhre@meltami.dsd.trw.com
Reply-To: suhre@meltami.dsd.trw.com ()
Organization: TRW Space & Defense
Distribution: alt
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 21:34:25 GMT


=====Begin post for Adria=====
re Andy:
    I feel that way too.  Sometimes I lay in bed in the morning,
awake when I should be asleep, reliving past experiences in my
mind that I would like to have changed.
     Usually I would have liked to be able to have said NO to
someone, or to even speak up for myself--or perhaps to have
done something even more drastic than I did at the time.  I
try to not let myself go on these veins because it is
very uncomfortable.  I try to keep busy so my brain doesn't
go off on these tangents.  If it hadn't been for
these things, I wouldn't be the person I am today--all the
good (which I don't see very well) as well as the bad.

--Adria  <Dog@cornellc.cit.cornell.edu>
=====End post for Adria=======
-- 
Maurice Suhre
suhre@trwrb.dsd.trw.com
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: alawrenc@sobeco.com (a.lawrence)
Subject: Re: NORMIES
Organization: Sobeco Ernst & Young
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 08:25:03 GMT
Keywords: Normal Person, Not in a 12 step group

In <1992Jul27.183900.19239@ohmeda.com> rmann@ohmeda.com (Robby Mann) writes:

>     I have a question.
>     Is there such a thing as a normal happy life?

>---------

>     Do normal happy people have a 12 step support group that they belong to,
>or do they just live within a fellowship with the rest of the world.

>--------
>     I've been reading a book that says we can have normal happy lives if we
>just do a few *SIMPLE* steps.  It also talks about a fellowship of people that
>have a common bond, and a common solution.  But may have different backgrounds.

    I don't know about anyone else, but I really don't even know what
a 12 step support group is.   I don't think I've ever seen one.  I am
a member of the Fellowship of Alcoholics Anonymous.

I believe the term "support group" is something coined by those outside
the fellowship who needed to create at "rational" term to describe 
something that "rationally" could never work.  Thank God that there
is nothing "rational" about the program of AA.  It is simply an
empirical approach to achiving spirituality.
-- 
On a clear disk you can seek forever.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andrew Lawrence, Informaticien Conseil           |  alawrenc@sobeco.com
3605 St-Urbain, #1605                            |  uunet!sobeco!alawrenc
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: fullerto@carp.cis.ohio-state.edu (timothy dwight fullerton)
Subject: Re: Ugh.
Organization: The Ohio State University, Department of Computer and Information Science
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 18:29:54 GMT

In article <BrzGDw.Hwq@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> "Andrew M. Taylor" <amtaylor@silver.ucs.indiana.edu> writes:
>Hi,
>Just had one of those revelations while lying in bed.  One of those
>truths I have to learn over and over and over again.  Part of admitting
>I am powerless is admitting I am powerless over my own past mistakes.
>No matter how well I am doing now, I cannot undo the past.  I cannot go back.
>

	I have felt remorse about all of the stupid things that I have done.
I have fantasized about putting my consciousness now back into when I was
born so that I could do it all again right. 

	You are right. I can not do that.

	It does seem to me, though, that that is what that "amends" thing
is all about.

	A nifty game that I have been playing is to use my network accounts
to try to track down people from my life...


			Tim F.
			fullerto@cis.ohio-state.edu
From: wrhogeb@srv.PacBell.COM (Bill Hogeboom)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Re: RECOVERY!@???
Date: 21 Jul 92 23:04:26 GMT
Organization: Pacific * Bell

In article <1992Jul20.162650.4212@ctr.columbia.edu> weiss@leopard.cs.uidaho.edu writes:
>In Alt.recovery mikec@intelhf.hf.intel.com (Mike Coleman) writes:
>|> chris.mathis@madness.network23.com (Chris Mathis)  writes:
>|> 
>|> > Recovery?! So where is all the helpfull advice???!!!!!
>|> 
>|> one day at a time
>|> go to meetings, and don't drink between meetings
>|> live and let live
>|> work the steps
>|> expect a miracle
>|> Keep coming back, it works . . . . .
>|> 
>|> Need anything else?
>|> 
>
>Yeah, exactly how does one do these things?  I was told all these things
>when I first showed up at an AA meeting.  With the exception of
>"Go to meetings" I had no clue what any of it meant, much less how
>do do any of it.
>
>So how do I go about doing these things?
>
>Cheers,
>
>Phil.
>
>You will surely meet some of us as you trudge the Road of Happy Destiny.


Read the Big Book, get a sponsor, take direction and work the steps
to the best of your ability. Been working that way for me for over
eight years now.
Newsgroups: la.general,ca.wanted
From: dhosek@hmcvax.claremont.edu
Subject: Notebook Computer for sail
Organization: Harvey Mudd College
Date: 22 Jul 92 17:23:39 PDT

I have a notebook that it turns out that I can neither use nor
return (a conflict in the keyboard bios precludes OS/2's running
on it reliably for more than 5 minutes or so). It's two months
old and has the following characteristics:

NTK NP-925 Notebook Computer:
25Mhz AMD386SXL processor
Socket for 387
8M Ram
80M HD
640x400 64 grayscale 9in LCD display
VGA
Full size keyboard
Western Digital SCSI-2 Controller,
FAX/Modem
1 S/1P
Weight 6.7 pounds with both batteries
5 hr battery life (up to 8 hrs with power conservation)
Carrying case
Recharger.
Complete manuals

Also included are BitFAX/SR and Bitcom software. You can connect
an external keyboard and external monitor. The computer is
designed on a modular basis meaning that you can plug in
different peripherals into one of the battery slots. These are
sold by a company in LA and typically cost less than similar
options for a standard notebook (among available options are
Ethernet, scanner, cellular communications, 3270 emulation, and
8-bit slot.

For all of this, I would like to get $2000 (includes delivery
charges).

I will be leaving on a business trip Friday so if you're in a
hurry to get something like this, you should call me before then.
My phone numbur is 714-621-1291, or I can be reached by e-mail at
dhosek@hmcvax.claremont.edu. Please leave day and evening numbers
because I'd like to sell this before I leave if possible.

-dh
From: harp@isi.edu (Brian Harp)
Newsgroups: la.general
Subject: Re: Windsurfer rentals?
Date: 30 Jul 92 15:16:03 GMT
Distribution: la
Organization: USC Information Sciences Institute



I know a few years ago a sailboard shop in Long Beach rented boards at Cabrillo
beach in Long Beach.  They actually hauled the boards down to the beach, so all
you have to do is drag it to the water and jump on.  I expect most of the boards
they rent are beginner boards.




Brian                      o
 Harp                       \
                          \0/
       ||==================|=====||
       ||-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-/\+-+-+||
       ||=================\=\====||
       ||                        ||
       ||                        ||
       ||                        ||

USC/ISI, 4676 Admiralty Way, Marina del Rey, CA 90292
Phone: 310/822-1511, Fax: 310/823-6714 
--
-----------------

				Brian Harp
				USC/Information Sciences Institute
Newsgroups: la.general,caltech.general
From: azirger@micro.caltech.edu (Art Zirger)
Subject: Prototype simple project for Artist
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 18:28:56 GMT

I've just talked with an artist in West L.A. who needs some electronics help
on her project.  She calls it interactive sculpture.  The idea behind the work
is that there are three pre-recorded sounds of 10 seconds in duration.  The
person viewing the exhibit would bounce a suspended ball off a piezoelectric
sheet which would trigger the playing of one of the sounds.  The sounds will
be recorded in solid-state and each subsequent trigger would play another of
the sounds in a 1-2-3-1-2-3-1, etc. ring.  My advice to her was to use a self-
powered speaker and the piezo-electric interface has already been built and
tested as part of a previous work.  She also said that an electronics person
who worked with her before would be able to take care of recording the music
onto the solid-state "device" he has in mind.

To me then, the project looks pretty simple.  Just take the trigger information
from the piezo-electric circuitry to increment a 1-2-3 ring counter to arrive
at the proper index into the solid-state chip.  The 10 second part might need
some time base, but just divide a TTL oscillator down to whatever you need.
Output might be able to drive the self-powered speaker, or you might need to
use some sort of buffer (LM386 at the worst).  Anyway, she needs to have this
done by mid-August and all my weekends are already budgeted.  If you have any
desire to help a artist with limited funds and some digital logic background,
send me some e-mail and I'll pass on her phone numbers to you.  Oh, the work is
a commissioned piece by Sony if that makes any difference to you.

Art Zirger.


Newsgroups: la.general
From: faigin@aero.org (Daniel P. Faigin)
Subject: Referral needed for roofer and H/AC contractors
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
Distribution: la
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 19:01:43 GMT

I need to get a second bid for some roofing and heating/air conditioning work
in the northern San Fernando Valley. Does anyone have some contractors they
would like to recommend that I talk to?

Daniel
--
[W]:The Aerospace Corp. M1/055 * POB 92957 * LA, CA 90009-2957 * 310/336-8228
[Email]:faigin@aerospace.aero.org              [Vmail]:310/336-5454 Box#13149
   "You can't be a rationalist in an irrational world. It isn't rational!"
	       Dr. Rance, in Joe Orton's "What the Butler Saw"
Newsgroups: la.general
Subject: the Anti-Club
From: sgenchi@neptune.uucp (Stacie Genchi 01-02-92)
Date: 27 Jul 92 17:36:02 PDT
Distribution: la
Organization: CSLA

Can anyone give me input on the anti-club in L.A.?  What bands are playing this Friday and what is your critic of these bands?

sgenchi@calstatela.edu
From: verzotti@priam.usc.edu (Bruno Verzotti)
Newsgroups: la.general
Subject: Car Sale
Date: 21 Jul 1992 18:45:07 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: la
NNTP-Posting-Host: priam.usc.edu


Newsgroups: la.general
From: sills@aero.org (Andy Sills)
Subject: Re: Referral needed for roofer and H/AC contractors
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
Distribution: la
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 14:01:17 GMT


We have been using a general contractor for a house remodelling job
while we lived in it. Under these circumstances, one gets to know the
contractor very well. I can recommend Mr. Kyung Soo Shin with
unreserved enthusiasm. He is careful, hard-working, accurate, a true
craftsman, and has a good sense of humor. His charges are reasonable.
especially for the quality of his work, and he delivers what he says
he will when he says he will.

	He could handle the ac/heating work you asked about, and
probably knows someone for your roofing needs. He can be reached  @
818/360-6262. 

-- 
Andrew W. Sills 213/336-5913
M1-039, The Aerospace Corporation
PO Box 92957, Los Angeles, CA 90009
sills@aerospace.aero.org
Newsgroups: la.general
From: rob@xyzoom.info.com (Rob Lingelbach)
Subject: Re: surf
Reply-To: rob@xyzoom.info.com (Rob Lingelbach)
Organization: Altruistic Intentions, Hollywood CA
Distribution: la
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 20:06:25 GMT

In article <l6movoINNetk@physics.usc.edu> adamli@physics.usc.edu (Adam Li) writes:
>I am new to LA. Could anyone tell me where is the best beach for surf around here? And where can I rent a board and wet suit?
>
>By the way, if you are willing to go surf with some new comers, please give me a mail at adamli@physics.usc.edu.

I have always wanted to learn to surf, but two things stopped me from
trying:

1) water quality.  Where can you enter the water without fear of
contracting disease?

2) local surfer territorialism: Is there a place one can surf (badly
at first) where the locals won't beat one up?



-- 
Rob Lingelbach KB6CUN | 2660 Hollyridge Dr LA CA 90068 213 464 6266 (voice) 
rob@xyzoom.info.com   | "I care not much for a man's religion whose dog or 
robl@netcom.com       |  cat are not the better for it."  --Abraham Lincoln
Newsgroups: la.general
From: rob@xyzoom.info.com (Rob Lingelbach)
Subject: Re: Windsurfer rentals?
Reply-To: rob@xyzoom.info.com (Rob Lingelbach)
Organization: Altruistic Intentions, Hollywood CA
Distribution: la
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 02:02:10 GMT

In article <l7ddf4INNe54@nunki.usc.edu> twhalen@nunki.usc.edu (Timothy Whalen) writes:
> Does anyone have an idea where I can rent a windsurfer near the beach
>so that I don't have to hassle with getting a car rack and all the
>attendant terrors of transporting the damn thing?  I checked last year 
>and found there was a place at the Malibu pier, but I can't find that
>place.  There's another place on PCH, with some name like "Transcendent
>Surfboards" or some such, with several outlets in Santa Monica and 
>Malibu, but their Malibu location says they won't let me try to cross
>the road with their board.
>Anyone know of anywhere on the water that'll rent?

There is a rental and instruction facility at "Stretch Mark Beach" in
the Marina.  This is the little bay-like area with sand in back of the
Cheesecake Factory.  I wonder if they'll let you take the board out to
the ocean from there?

-- 
Rob Lingelbach KB6CUN | 2660 Hollyridge Dr LA CA 90068 213 464 6266 (voice) 
rob@xyzoom.info.com   | "I care not much for a man's religion whose dog or 
robl@netcom.com       |  cat are not the better for it."  --Abraham Lincoln
Newsgroups: la.general
From: harry@neuron6.jpl.nasa.gov (Harry Langenbacher)
Subject: Re: The House That Looks Like a Hamburger Bun
Keywords: Weird Pasadena architecture
Organization: JPL Pasadena CA
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 16:55:38 GMT

In article <DwD4NB1w165w@midiline.la.ca.us> nickn@midiline.la.ca.us (nick nelson) writes:
>libman@phad.hsc.usc.edu (Marlena Libman) writes:
>
>> Does anyone know the story behind that house (?) shaped and painted 
>> like a hamburger bun complete with sesame seeds on top, located in
>> the Pasadena area just south of Glenarm on Los Robles?  For those
>> of you who drive north on Los Robles from Huntington, look to the
>> left just before you reach Glenarm.  I suppose the shrubs are lettuce
>> and pickles.
>> 
>> 			--Marlena
>
>That is a house designed by Wallace Neff and built in 1946.  It was
>made (if I remember correctly) by inflating a large "baloon" type
>thing and spraying the outside with some kind of foam that then
>hardened.  Last time I saw it, it didn't look like a hamburger, but
>it was for sale 2 or 3 years ago and maybe the new owners have a
>sense of humor.
>
>     - Nick
>
Doesn't look much like a hamburger to me. Sesame seeds ? - maybe if
the wind doesn't blow off the dead leaves. So I don't have any
imagination :-), but I did find it interesting. I drive down Glenarm
every day, but never saw that house - thanks !

It's a short block south of Glenarm, NW corner of Wallis (?) & Los Robles,
and hard to see.

-- 
Harry Langenbacher 818-354-9513 harry%neuron6@jpl-mil.jpl.nasa.gov
Concurrent Processing Devices Group, FAX 818-393-4540
JPL,  M/S 302-231, 4800 Oak Grove Dr, Pasadena CA 91109        USA
From: twhalen@nunki.usc.edu (Timothy Whalen)
Newsgroups: la.general
Subject: Windsurfer rentals?
Date: 29 Jul 1992 08:14:44 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: la
NNTP-Posting-Host: nunki.usc.edu
Summary: where, near water

 Does anyone have an idea where I can rent a windsurfer near the beach
so that I don't have to hassle with getting a car rack and all the
attendant terrors of transporting the damn thing?  I checked last year 
and found there was a place at the Malibu pier, but I can't find that
place.  There's another place on PCH, with some name like "Transcendent
Surfboards" or some such, with several outlets in Santa Monica and 
Malibu, but their Malibu location says they won't let me try to cross
the road with their board.
Anyone know of anywhere on the water that'll rent?
Thanks-
TWTW