HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bdm@cs.anu.edu.au (Brendan McKay)
Subject: MEQ #10: Shamir in the Mossad
Reply-To: bdm@cs.anu.edu.au
Organization: Australian National University
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 08:21:23 GMT


      MEQ #10. Extract from a documentary on Yitzak Shamir.


   [Referring to Shamir's period as a Mossad agent in Europe.]
   Eldar [Note 1]: Shamir in Europe, in Paris, was the Shamir of
   Ben Gurion, not(?) the trouble-maker in Israel.  He was the number-one
   Israeli spy in Europe.
   Interviewer: Again, he was in charge of operations?
   Eldar: Of course, all secret operations in Europe, like getting rid of
   Arabs, that should be Palestinian, terrorists, and securing Israeli
   positions(?) all over Europe.
   Harel [Note 2]: He was very discreet.  He was very loyal.  He carried
   out his given tasks exactly.  He never deviated from that.
   Eldar: Shamir is the type of person that can wait for hours or days
   until he shoots.  He is very patient and he won't shoot until he is
   sure he is going to hit his target, and he won't miss, and I think
   that this is his quality these days. [Note 3]
   [Referring to the coming Madrid conference:]
   Eldar: When it will come to give up territories he will give up his
   position first.  Because that's a change that he cannot afford.  He
   will perhaps go and attend the peace conference and even start some
   kind of bilateral negotiations with the Arabs, waiting for them to
   make the mistake.
   XX [Note 4]: He's not going to budge one inch.  He will conduct
   negotiations for 25 years if necessary.

   Source: Rebroadcast on Australian Special Broadcasting Service of
   part of a documentary from KRO TV (Netherlands).  Nov 9, 1991.
   The interviews were in English, including the grammatical errors.
   Note 1: Akiva Eldar is a political correspondent for the Israeli
           newspaper Ha'aretz.
   Note 2: Isser Harel was the head of Mossad at the time Shamir
           was recruited (1955).
   Note 3: This is the only suggestion I know of that Shamir conducted
           assassinations personally.  The most authoritative open
           source on Mossad history, Black and Morris's "Israel's
           Secret Wars" (Futura, 1991) says that Shamir organised
           assassinations but recruited other former Lehi members
           for the actual 'low-grade' work (p196).
   Note 4: XX is another interviewee who was not identified by SBS.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Middle East Quotes is an occasional series of quotations on Middle
East history.  The editor does not necessarily approve of the sentiments
expressed in quotes, nor will he necessarily join in any discussion
they engender.  Contributions are welcome but will not necessarily be
accepted.  Full sources are essential.      Brendan McKay.
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: To Yigal Arens
Date: 9 Oct 92 20:46:38 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <4268@bimacs.BITNET> ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich) writes:
>
>Yigal is not Unique.
> His friends to the Marxist underground MAZPEN are still just like
> him.

Labeling another Jew as anti-semitic just isn't powerful enough
these days?  You gotta use a double edged sword too?

Mr. Khaled was right.  Yigal is unique and somewhat rare voice in
this newsgroup.  And I don't care if he is a Marxist or Zionist.
He speaks the truth.  Dare you to sponsor that.  You are certainly
doing a favor to your people in Eretz Yisrael.

Anisa
From: dam@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (David Morning)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: More on Kuwiati Elections and Aftermath
Date: 9 Oct 92 10:40:39 GMT
Organization: Glasgow University Computing Science Dept.

anwar+@cs.cmu.edu (Anwar Mohammed) writes:

>	Al Sabah's government submitted its resignation to the Emir,
>Sheikh Jaber Al Ahmed Al Sabah, who then asked it to serve as a
>caretaker government pending the formation of a new cabinet in about
>two weeks.

>	The new government was expected to be formed and headed by Al
>Sabah, but given the strong showing by opposition candidates,
>observers expect to see new faces in the cabinet.

I don't understand this. I thought you said Al Sabah's government lost and
resigned?

How can Al Sabah go and form a new government and head it when he'd already
lost out to the opposition? Shouldn't the opposition who won the
election be appointing someone to form and head the new government rather than
the person who lost?

The only thing I can think of that would explain it is that the opposition
leader is called Al-Sabah too.

Can someone enlighten me?

A puzzled Dave.

--
From: bx573@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Alan H. Stein)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: casualties during the Intifadah
Date: 13 Oct 1992 02:16:06 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: bx573@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Alan H. Stein)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, rayes@Goat.mcs.kent.edu (Sandra Rayes) says:

>>Isn't this the same violently anti-Israeli rag that Arf keeps quoting?
>>If he says its reliable, I say its bullsh*t.
>
>The Washington Report is a respectable magazine, enjoys a broad readership
>and many experts contribute to it.

Thank you for one of the biggest belly laughs I've had in a long time.

  Many of these experts are well-recognized
>current and former diplomats, US Congressmen, and multi-government employees.
>Because YOU happen not to agree with the opinion of WRMA's editors and
>contributors does NOT make it a rag.  I don't care if Arf or whoever reads
>it...
>
>You guys quote from questionable pro-Israel sources all the time. At least
>allow us the right to quote our sources without hearing malicious UNPROVEN
>slander.
>
>This is definitely an "Arf" technique to irk people, Danny, and frankly,
>I am surprised it came from you....I thought better of you.
>
>>
>>#	DEATHS						1,045
>>
>>I remember someone posting about 800, + about the same number of
>>Palestinians killed by Palestinians. I would also note that the
>>very large majority of the IDF related deaths occured at the
>>beggining of the riots and that there has been a sharp decrease
>>since.
>
>Are we talking REALLY about Palestinians, or IDF forces in disguise to\
>LOOK like Palestinians.
-- 
bx573@cleveland.freenet.edu----Alan H. Stein----stein@uconnvm.uconn.edu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: rayes@Goat.mcs.kent.edu (Sandra Rayes)
Subject: Re: casualties during the Intifadah
Organization: Kent State University
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 05:19:22 GMT

In article <4024@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh) writes:
> 
>I believe Sandra Rayes posted these figures not too long ago.  It was
>from the Washington Report, and dated July 1992:
>
Yes indeed, it was I who posted that.  And now, I will post the latest
figures up to August 1992 (under the last posting):

>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>		LIVING UNDER ISRAELI OCCUPATION
>
>	The toll of human rights violations by Israeli forces since
>	Dec. 9, 1987:
>
>
>	DEATHS						1,045
Newest Figure:                                          1,063
I guess we could add one more for the Palestinian who was killed
by Israeli forces yesterday.

>
>	INJURIES requiring hospitalization	      122,684*
Newest Figure:                                        123,418

>
>	EXPLOSIONS					   66
Newest Figure:                                             66

>
>	ADMINISTRATIVE detentions		       15,240
Newest Figure:                                         15,270

>
>	CURFEWS (areas with 10,000+ population	       11,452
>		under 24-hour curfew)
>	(Plus almost constant curfews over entire
>	West Bank and Gaza from Jan.16 - Feb.28, 1991)
Newest Figure:                                         11,546

>
>	LAND CONFISCATION (acres)		       89,635
Newest Figure:                                         89,951

>
>	HOUSE DEMOLITIONS/SEALINGS			2,154
Newest Figure:                                          2,212

>
>	TREE UPROOTINGS				      142,494
Newest Figure:                                        145,136

>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>* Estimated Number
>
>Source:  Palestine Human Rights Information Center, Jerusalem/
>	 Chicago.  Figures through April 30, 1992.
>
>
>Anisa
>
>	"In eight years as a member of the House (1977 to 1985)
>	and seven years in the Senate, Gore has compiled one of
>	the strongest pro-Israel records on the Hill.  He has a
>	100 percent record on foreign aid.  As a member of the
>	Senate Armed Services Committee, he has been a champion
>	of U.S.-Israeli strategic cooperation."
>				Douglas Bloomfield,
>			Washington Jewish Week, July 16, 1992

Sandra.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: singer@uwovax.uwo.ca
Subject: Nobel Prizes=Spate of Anti-Semitism
Organization: University of Western Ont, London
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 23:53:44 GMT

The Nobel Prizes have just been announced. That usually is the signal for a
frenzied new round of anti-Semitism/anti-Zionism.--
From: U16244@uicvm.uic.edu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Alan Dershowitz on Bosnia
Date: 16 Oct 92 17:16:50 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago

In article <Bw55t1.7p1@ddsw1.mcs.com>, arf@ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) says:
> Bull shit.  He said nothing can or should ever be compared
> to the Holocaust.  You can rationalize or twist what you
> wish he has said but the bottom line is he IS a racist pig.
>
> js
>
>

Oh, this is sweet.  Arf is such a prince among men.  Mourning for those of
Muslim descent killed in Bosnia, according them heartfelt sorrow that should
count more for them because this is here and now, as opposed to the Holocaust.

Now don't get me wrong, if I had my way, every motherfucker in Yugoslavia
packing a loaded firearm would have his fucking brains ripped from his god
damned head through his nostrils.  I verbally smacked the shit out of a guy
who wanted to hop on over to Serbia to serve in "The Cause."  The bastard
finally woke up to the light and shut his face about Serbia owing Croatia
or Bosnia a few licks for what happened in WWII.

But stating that the Holocaust should be consolation to Bosnians because
six million died there, and they weren't being killed off in those numbers is
blind racism in a reverse sense.  Everyone spouts off about how six million
jews were killed, or were not killed in death camps during the Holocaust.  To
tell the truth, although it is an upsetting thing, I couldn't give that much
of a care as long as I realize that after Nuremburg, the bastards who did it
were cold fucking meat.  What does fucking piss me off is the fact that nobody
remembers what the fuck happened to about two million Poles in these camps.
Oh, the Holocaust isn't relevant to the Bosnian situation.  Saying that the
Holocaust is irrelevant pisses me off because you're saying that two million
people with the same blood running through my veins are historically
irrelevant!!  Tell me Jackie boy, how many non-jewish, non-homosexual,
non-catholic Germans were systematically wiped out that you can identify
with.  It's comparing apples to fucking oranges, and I know this damn
arguement is only on talk.politics.mideast because you want to piss off
every jewish/isreali motherfucker on the net, you nazi bastard, but
you are ticking me off because thousands of Wojtowiczes were killed
because they stood up to Nazi soldiers with names like Schmidling.

You want to end the shit going down in Yugoslavia, put some of those old
nukes to good use.  Drop a few dozen in those fucking "ethnically pure"
zones in Croatia and Serbia and tell the bastards to shut the fuck up
or else every asshole gets it.  That's what you do, and fuck morality,
because THEY don't give a fuck either.

Douglas P. Wojtowicz.
From: bx573@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Alan H. Stein)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: casualties during the Intifadah
Date: 13 Oct 1992 16:32:32 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: bx573@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Alan H. Stein)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh) says:

>>>I guess Mr. Stein wouldn't say how many Palestinians have been murdered
>>>by his fellow Israelis ...
>>
>>Being an American, I do not have "fellow Israelis."
>
>But isn't Israel you homeland?  Aren't Israelis your people?

Israel is my ancestral homeland, America is my home.  How about you?  The
former mayor of my town, who presently resides in a Federal penitentiary,
called America his home but had Italy as his homeland.  I'm waiting for you
to come up with the standard dual loyalty canard next.

>Don't
>you support the government of Israel completely and fully?

I don't support any person or any government "completely and fully."

>>The numbers I estimated included those Arabs who died while violently
>>resisting capture by the undercover squads.  Since there are no "typical
>>terrorist measures" used by the IDF, the latter figure is obviously 0.
>
>But you did *not* say this in your former posting.  You did not separate
>the two factors - you just said that (to memory) the number of Palestinians
>who died in the intefada were at the hands of other Palestinians and you
>did not even mention Israeli undercover terrorist squads.

I have no need to mention things that don't exist.  You, obviously, do have
such a need.

> Furthermore, you
>justified Israel's totalitarian and inhumanitarian policies on Palestinians
>in the occupied territories

I have done no such thing, since Israel has no such policies.

> by suggesting that the Palestinians who oppose
>this are the ones to blame for their deaths.

Palestinian Arabs who attack others, be they Arab or Jew, and provoke a
response that results in their deaths are indeed the ones to blame.  Sad,
but true.  Pointing out that they are themselves to blame does nothing to
reduce the tragedy of their unnecessary deaths, and misplacing the blame on
the Israelis they were trying to destroy does nothing to increase it.

>  That is pretty damn racist,
>Mr. Stein.

That's a damn strong accusation, Ms. Aldoubosh.  Totally unjustified, but
strong.
-- 
bx573@cleveland.freenet.edu----Alan H. Stein----stein@uconnvm.uconn.edu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: gmeltzne@jarthur.claremont.edu (Manu)
Subject: Re: casualties during the Intifadah
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 19:58:29 GMT

In article <1992Oct14.181624.24150@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> kshammou@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Khaled J Shammout) writes:
>>In article <1992Oct14.055318.2438984@locus.com> jle@locus.com (John 
>>Elghani/10000000) writes:
>
>>>the land and wanting to reinstante Judea  as theirs.  Why don't they
>>>leave it to its natives.
>
>>     Well, you know, if King Hussein didn't enter the 1967 war,
>>     the Palestinians could have owned Judea.
>
>     Well, the Palestinians owned 93% of the land in Palestine (in 1948) but
>still were kicked out by the the Zionists in.

	The subject was Judea, not what was divided in 1948.  However,
	at least a large percentage of Palestinians left what is now
	Israel because they were promised by the Arab governments that
	the Jews would be driven into the sea.

Geoff

>
>> (Manu)
>
>Wa Salam
>--------------
>Khaled J Shammout


-- 
Email: gmeltzne@jarthur.claremont.edu            

A .sig?  A .sig? We don't need no stinkin' .sigs!
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: gmeltzne@jarthur.claremont.edu (Manu)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: casualties during the Intifadah
Date: 16 Oct 92 01:07:33 GMT
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711

In article <1992Oct15.221234.21490@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> kshammou@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Khaled J Shammout) writes:
>> (Manu)
>
>     Tsk, Tsk, Tsk, please read the previous articles on the subject of the
>Zionist/Israeli expulsion of the Palestinians.
>
>Wa Salam
>--------------
>Khaled J Shammout


	Take your condescension elsewhere dear boy.  I have no use for it.
	If I so wrong then post something to prove me wrong.  If you're
	the keeper of truth and facts then get off your damn high horse
	and enlighten me.  You're "holier than thou" attitude is unwanted
	and not needed.

	-Geoff
-- 
Email: gmeltzne@jarthur.claremont.edu            

A .sig?  A .sig? We don't need no stinkin' .sigs!
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: arf@ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Re: Alan Dershowitz on Bosnia
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 02:34:13 GMT
Organization: ddsw1.MCS.COM Contributor, Chicago, IL

 
 Article 49163 (66 more) in talk.politics.mideast:
 From: dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
 Subject: Re: Alan Dershowitz on Bosnia
 
 #Isn't that the reason why Arf calls you a Chutzpahnazi?  :-)
 
 Just for the record, I withdraw that accuzation against 
 Danny.
 
 >You want me to explain how the Schimidling works?
 
 Everyone else does, why not you?
 
 #Maybe Alan is just focusing too much on one side to be able to clearly
 #see what the 'conflict' is really about, and how the daily massacres
 #and starvation of this certain religious minority is very similar to
 #the crimes and atrocities of Nazi Germany.
 
 >They are not similar in magnitude, not by a long shot (and 
 I sincerely hope they will not become similar).
 
 No one said they were similar in magnitude.  But they are 
 comparable in evil.  Individuals being brutalized get no 
 comfort in knowing that 6 million Jews suffered.
 
 >Who was reducing the severity of it?
 
 Dershawitz, specifically stated they can not and should not 
 be compared.
 
 ##Note the nothing will or should.  He is telling us that, 
 no matter how terrible an atrocity is, we (for political 
 reasons) should never draw the comparison.
 
 >And that is, of course, a BLOODY LIE, typical of 
 Schmidling.
 
 Strange, I thought I was quoting Dershowitz.
 
 
 >Dershowitz would say, for instance, "even if millions of 
 people
 are shot or gassed to death in Bosnia, this would not be comparable
 to the Holocaust" that would make him a filthy racist and I would
 be the first to condemmn him. But all he said is that the murder
 of thousands is not comparable to the murder of 
 millions.....
 
 Bull shit.  He said nothing can or should ever be compared 
 to the Holocaust.  You can rationalize or twist what you 
 wish he has said but the bottom line is he IS a racist pig.
 
 js
 

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: bdm@cs.anu.edu.au (Brendan McKay)
Subject: Re: casualties during the Intifadah
Organization: Australian National University
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1992 03:43:24 GMT

gmeltzne@jarthur.claremont.edu (Manu) writes:
>	The subject was Judea, not what was divided in 1948.  However,
>	at least a large percentage of Palestinians left what is now
>	Israel because they were promised by the Arab governments that
>	the Jews would be driven into the sea.

Many, maybe most, Palestinians who fled their homes in 1948 hoped to
be able to return after an Arab victory (though it is not clear how
many were confident of that victory).  What is so reprehensible about
that?  It has almost nothing to do with the _reason they left.  Also,
how can this desire to return soon be reconciled with the other
cliche of Israeli propaganda: that the property of those Palestinians
was "willingly abandoned" (noting the second word)?

>Geoff

Brendan.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
Subject: Re: Alan Dershowitz on Bosnia
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 19:31:12 GMT

arf@ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) writes:
# 
# Just for the record, I withdraw that accuzation against 
# Danny.

Should I be celebrating? And what's my new title?

[About atrocities in Bosnia]
 
## They are not similar in magnitude, not by a long shot (and 
## I sincerely hope they will not become similar).
# 
# No one said they were similar in magnitude.  But they are 
# comparable in evil.  Individuals being brutalized get no 
# comfort in knowing that 6 million Jews suffered.
                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Suffered? How about died? And who is saying its a comfort? Of
course its not.
 
## Who was reducing the severity of it?
# 
# Dershawitz, specifically stated they can not and should not 
# be compared.

I am repeating: if he would say

"even if millions of people are shot or gassed to death in Bosnia,
this would not be comparable to the Holocaust" that would make him 
a filthy racist and I would be the first to condemmn him.

# Bull shit.  He said nothing can or should ever be compared 
# to the Holocaust.  You can rationalize or twist what you 
# wish he has said but the bottom line is he IS a racist pig.

A mere figure of speech. It is hard to imagine something like
the Holocaust happening again. I find it very strange that
you are suddenly so pernicious with words. From someone who
hailed Nazi trash "Ralph Winston", I wouldn`t expect such
sensitivity to mankind and such willingness to blame others
of being "racist pigs" based on a single vauge statement, 
that was accompanied with severe denounciation of the atrocities
in Bosnia.

Suppose Dersowitz would say that the atrocity stories are untrue
and the whole thing is a hoax. You would scream bloody murder
over the net for years, wouldn't you? But when some piece
of filth claims the Holocaust is a hoax and that there were
no gas chambers, he is an "intelligent, but naive, young person"
that you hail as your successor? Give me a break.

-Danny Keren.
From: anwar+@cs.cmu.edu (Anwar Mohammed)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: More on Kuwiati Elections and Aftermath
Date: 12 Oct 92 15:00:15 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

In article <BvuoBs.KEx@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk> dam@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (David Morning) writes:
>anwar+@cs.cmu.edu (Anwar Mohammed) writes:
>
>>	Al Sabah's government submitted its resignation to the Emir,
>>Sheikh Jaber Al Ahmed Al Sabah, who then asked it to serve as a
>>caretaker government pending the formation of a new cabinet in about
>>two weeks.
>
>>	The new government was expected to be formed and headed by Al
>>Sabah, but given the strong showing by opposition candidates,
>>observers expect to see new faces in the cabinet.
>
>I don't understand this. I thought you said Al Sabah's government lost and
>resigned?
>
>How can Al Sabah go and form a new government and head it when he'd already
>lost out to the opposition? Shouldn't the opposition who won the
>election be appointing someone to form and head the new government rather than
>the person who lost?

The power to form the cabinet is still in the hands of the Al-Sabah's. 
But under pressure from the national assembly and popular opinion, they
will pick cabinet portfolios accordingly.

Anyone interested in a copy of Kuwait's constitution can send me e-mail.

>
>The only thing I can think of that would explain it is that the opposition
>leader is called Al-Sabah too.
>
>Can someone enlighten me?
>
>A puzzled Dave.
>
>-- 


-- 
Anwar Mohammed                FREE       Graduate Student
anwar+@cs.cmu.edu              THE       School of Computer Science
Voice: +1 412 268 3043     KUWAITI       Carnegie-Mellon University
Fax:   +1 412 681 5739        POWS       Pittsburgh, PA  15213-3890