From: cla02@seq1.keele.ac.uk (R. Wallace)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: MIRacles No. 13
Date: 8 Oct 92 16:33:35 GMT
Organization: Keele University, England

From article <1992Oct8.131219.5892@dcs.qmw.ac.uk>, by pef@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Panayotis Fouliras; TA PhD):
> To Richard Wallace:
> 
> Hello again,
> 
> I have two suggestions for your question about the Macedonian
> Star and related stuff:
> 
> 1. Why don't you try the publications by the archaeologist that
> actually discovered that emblem? Namely the late Dr Manolis
> Andronikos. I am certain that you could follow up the
> references that he mentions.

Well, yes, I am familiar with Andronikos' work (though I wouldn't claim
to have read everything he ever wrote!) and I know one of his British
collaborators quite well. But this isn't the sort of issue which can be
settled by archaeological evidence alone.

> Note: In Greece, this emblem is
> known as "The Sun of Vergina"; noone in Greece (as far as I can
> remember) ever called it a "Star" (Gold -> Sun, Silver -> Moon,
> etc normally).

Star seems to be the term universally used in this group! I just
wondered, since it was used so regularly and emphatically, whether there
was some information pointing in that direction.
> 
> 2. Try the (related) publications from Oxford and Cambridge.
> But be careful. The term 'Greek' was not always in use to
> describe all Greeks. Remember the term(s) Homer used for this
> purpose. 

You lose me here. Are you talking about the University Presses? There
are other academic publishers you know! But we all have access to the
standard bibliographical tools - except that there are sometimes bits of
new information which come to light which aren't published immediately -
that's all. Yes, I know how ancient authorities refer to the Greeks.

>Also don't try "soc.culture.greek". For highly
> specialist discussions, you should try (I think)
> "comp.classics". We are here to make discussions, express
> opinions and mainstream (with some exceptions) data. I don't
> think anybody here is a PhD in archaeology.

No. I disagree. The readers of this group have an enormous variety of
backgrounds both academic and national (as I have discovered from the
masses of mail I have received since using this group). It is not 
the private possession
of Greek computer scientists. How do you know that no-one has a PhD in
archaeology? Some people in this group are very knowledgeable indeed
(though I have never enquired about their qualifications). If you are
saying that ancient history has nothing to do with contemporary issues,
then I am 100% with you. But that is not what many of those posting here
think!

When I subscribed to this group, I hoped for discussion and information
on what was happening in Greece and among Greeks - culture, politics,
the economic situation etc. etc. In fact the group has been dominated by
rabid propagandists (on all sides, I should say) who have been mangling
my subject! Should I just sit back and take it? Or should I say that if
people make people on either side make wild statements which can't be
substantiated, I'll jump on them. How would you feel if your subject was
treated that way? 

I do find it very offensive when someone who puts forward a view which I
know to be defensible on the basis of the evidence, and which is held by
a number of decent sound scholars (even when I disgree with it myself),
is abused, insulted, and accused of being biased, anti-Greek, and
ignorant.

Yes, I agree, restrict discussions on ancient history to sci.classics.
Provided everbody does that. But if you post here, I'll answer you here!

But the question about the star/sun was a genuine question. Quite often,
people in touch with the local situation can find out about new
discoveries before they appear in the academic press. I don't know what
the conventions are in your field, but in mine the excavator of a site
always has priority in publication. In the case of people who aren't
as energetic as they might be, the result is sometimes scandalous
delays. But often something will appear in the local press, or get out
through the grapevine. It's worth keeping your ears open. Which is why I
ask. 
> 
> Regards
> 
> Panayotis
> 
> PS I don't think Panos Tamamides should have used the
> expression mentioned. If somebody has a certain view (e.g. A.
> T. Fear) and behaves like St Thomas, well, Jesus does not
> (necessarily) have to descend for his favour.
> --

You're a real gent, Panayotis!

Richard Wallace.