From: cjk@nic.cerf.net
Newsgroups: talk.abortion,alt.abortion.inequity,soc.men,soc.women
Subject: Re: Roe v. Wade is unrestricted...BLAH...BLAH...BLAH
Date: 22 Nov 92 08:11:32 GMT
Followup-To: talk.abortion,alt.abortion.inequity
Distribution: na
Organization: CERFnet


When the great "operation rescue" rescue was going on in
Witchita Kansas, (I'm going by memory on the location so
I hope I'm right...I'm sure somebody will flame this if
I'm wrong...And I'm still sure that I'll be flamed if I'm
right :-)) CNN reported that the clinic under question 
was one out of three that performed 3rd trimester abortions.
And that this was done for strictly medical reasons, like 
the baby had no brain...etc....  Not withstanding your
religious beliefs, I wouldn't blame a women in these matters.

Now as for illegal 3rd trimester abortions, I'm sure this goes
on.  But It will also go on if abortion was banned.

Now as for you two (and me) being males....really what right
do we have to set rules on something that we, by physical 
definition, will never have to experience?  Bear in mind that
some pro-choice advocates are athiest and therefor are not
subject to your definition of religious ethics.  And that also,
I am aware of the strategy of getting a fetus declared protected
under the constition so that religion is not the issue.

Really and fundamently, the fact is there are different opinions
on abortion, and different extremes of opinions.  We have the
poeple on the far far right who believe, and preach (because their
only justification is based on religion) that using contraceptives
is a form of abortion.  This idiocy is balanced by the far far 
left who believe and declare (because their only justification is
based on some sort of ficticious total liberty idealism) that
abortion is the right of the women up until the fetus is delivered.
Now these two fundamental views are connected together by a long
string of ideas that have minor changes with each step towards each
other.  Until *POOF*, magicaly in the middle we have the people
who are rational, sane, inteligent, and thoughtful (of which
I declare myself to be).  And we believe that:

1.  It is the woman who has to bear the physical characteristics
of childbirth, and therefor it is the womans choice.

2.  And that a responsible woman (and man) would practice
some sort of birth control method if they were sexualy active.

3.  But accidents do happen,  our lusts and instincts will 
sometimes get the better of our judgment and unwanted pregnancies
occur.

4.  And that when unwanted pregnancies occur, the decision to an
abortion should be made in a timely and thoughtful and informed
manner.  And that timely means before fetal viability, thoughtful
means with the knowledge that you are destroying a potential life.
And informed means that you know of other options i.e adoption.

5.  And yes, we are willing to rely on the religious community
to provide thoughful and informed advice on abortion provided it
is done in a humanly manner............................but it is
ultimately the womans right to seek such advice, and not the 
religious communities right to enforce such advice.

6.  And that Medical tragedies do occur, and some children will not
have the capabilities to lead a productive lifes.  And when medical
reasons dictate that the woman would not likely survive the
pregnancy; in the event that this occurs....Item 4 applies.

7.  And that the truest forms of unwanted pregnencies do occur, like
rape and incest, item 4 applies once again.

8.  And that we believe that abortion should never be used for
as an alternative to birth control, (in the truist sense of birth
control) and this is not meant to preclude item 3.

9.  And that abortion should never be used as a means of gender
selection.

10. And that with anything, abuses do occur and some will use
abortion as a means of birth control, and others will use it for
gender selection.....this we deeply regret but understand that
if it is not our body....it is not our choice.


Further more I would like to add that I wish that all the pro-life
people would pool there resources and put it to use where it will
really make a difference, and that is with orphanages.  Children
that for some reason or another have no parents.  We cannot do
do enough for these children.  And the fact that *ALL* of these
children are the direct result of the mother choosing not to have
an abortion should spur you on even greater to help them.  After all
they are the fruits of your labor.


If this article has been too long for you, I apologize.  I do not
read the newsgroups that this was posted to.  The original message
was cross-posted to news groups were it really doesn't belong.  But
since I read it, I felt compelled to respond (I also edited out the
inappropriate newsgroups).  I am not going to join those newsgroups
because my feelings on this matter are set in granite and will not
be changed.  If you disagree with me, I respect that.  If you
agree with me, than you are part of the group of people I mentioned
above, and that makes me happy.  And for what it is worth;  If I was
a woman, I would never have an abortion for any reason other than
to protect my life or if the child had moderate to severe medical
problems.  No further explanations required.

Chris Kevlahan
cjk@cerf.net

Newsgroups: talk.abortion,soc.men,alt.dads-rights