From: fbmy@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: RE: Spike Lee
Date: 5 Nov 92 17:52:52 EST
Distribution: world,soc
Organization: Cornell University

In article <6RoHTB1w163w@peewee>,
peewee@infoserv.com (Philip Stromer) writes: 

[much stuff deleted]

>We're liberal enough to allow consenting adults to be homosexuals (gross!), 
>but not to smoke grass.
[stuff deleted]

I've seen most of this guy's misinformation challenged, but not this, so here
goes:

Some info for you, Mr. Stromer, (and any netters who bought this BS):

1.  Over 20 states outlaw sexual intercourse between consenting adult gay men.

Now you may argue that it's the form of sexual contact being regulated, not
homosexuality.  But before doing so think through this first.  If society's
attitude were reversed, and a primary form of heterosexual sexual intercourse
were outlawed, would you feel it was the form of sexual contact being banned
or your sexual orientation in general?  

Consider in answering the above hypothetical, that this reversed society has
never acknowledged that any other aspects of lesbian, gay, and bisexual
relationships such as love, caring, trust, respect, etc. can and do exist in
heterosexual relationships except the sexual.  

From the above you may or may not acknowledge that in 20+ states gay male
relationships are banned.  You maybe saying, 'yes, true, but what about
lesbians and the other 20+ states?'. I say, 'read on.'

2.  In the overwhelming majority of states and localities it is legal to deny
employment, child custody (and visitation rights), housing, and official
government recognition of relationships to lesbians, gay men, and bisexuals.
All this in addition to the informal denial of their very right to live.  By
this I refer to the slowness or total lack of police response to gay bashing
incidents, and frequent jury acquittals or judge dismissals of suspects
(recent case in Texas:  man convicted of gay-bashing incident; judge refused 
to give a sentence, saying basically that he had done society a favor).

Now you may say that a) the denials of their right to live are only
informally (and perhaps minimally?) supported by the government, that this is a
key distinction, and that b) the opportunity for employment, keeping your
children, access to housing, and marriage are privileges not rights, and that
this is another key distinction.

I argue by analogy that this is not the case.  If/when Jews were legally denied
opportunities for employment, custody of their children, access to housing, and
/or marriage would you still consider these things privileges? When Jews are
informally denied their very right to live by the government, do you consider 
the informality of this denial to be a key distinction?

Finally, if/when the above conditions for Jews existed in a society, would/do
you consider it an accurate statement, when a Christian of that society says
"We're liberal enough to allow consenting adults to be Jewish..."?
Please think about this.

I want to be clear that the above section of this posting is only challenging
your assumption that our society "allows" consenting adults to be lesbian, gay,
or bisexual.  I have not argued either way that homosexuality should or should
not be "allowed".  I have done this purposely because I wanted to get across
the basic fact (and fact it is) that it is currently not "allowed", legally or
otherwise.

As to your blatant homophobia (expressed specifically in your post by "allow"
and "(Gross!)":

1) how generous of your liberal, tolerant self to "allow" 10% of the population
to exist.

2) as a white Jew, who has also claimed to give a damn about African Americans,
I remind you that:  
	The 3 major targets of the KKK are:  Jews, non-whites, and gays.
	The 3 major targets of the neo-Nazis are:  Jews, non-aryans and gays.
	The 3 major groups who shared the experiences of the
	concentration camps were:  Jews, non-aryans, and gay men.
This is NOT accidental, inconsequential, OR irrelevant.

Please think and educate yourself before you make off-hand comments about other
groups.


A. Kowalchuk


 
                                                                 
 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american