HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gthome@dss1.austin.ibm.com (Gerry Thome         (8-2256))
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: racing pace
Date: 1 Oct 92 18:51:01 GMT
Organization: IBM, Austin

In article <1992Sep30.233556.17538@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> lorenzo@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (Eric J. Lorenzo) writes:
>I was wondering how most experinced racers set their pace during a race.  I've 
>been running for a while now, but have just started to run in races.  I ran
>my first 5k on Labor Day and psyched myself out because of all the other 
>runners; I started too fast and was dead at the end.
>
>I have a 5 miler coming Saturday, and hope to keep a more level head this time.
>Do most runners keep a constant pace throughout the whole race?  I tend to
>take it easier towards the beginning of my runs then gradually speed up. Any
>tips out there that might help me run a better race?
>
>Thanks in advance,
>Eric
>

Eric,

It is best, unless you are in a position to win a race, to run a steady pace.
This, however, is easier said than done.  Most folks run better when the
pace is kept even.

Leaders of a race race each other -- not unlike race cars.  The leaders are
all generally at the same fitness and talent levels and they try to race to
their strengths.  It's a fun thing if you ever get to try it.

It's easy to go out too fast the first mile of a road race -- just keep 
your  head on straight and be steady. 

Gerry
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: lorenzo@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (Eric J. Lorenzo)
Subject: My race
Followup-To: poster
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 12:07:48 GMT

Thanks to everyone gave me h=gave me some sort of advice.  I definately ran
a better race this time around.  I am not a fast runner in any means, but I
ran better then my first race, a 5K, and finished at a good pace, almost at a
sprint.  This time, as opposed to  starting too fast, I took my 5 miler too
easy this time.

I learned from the advice that it takes experience.  I started way too slow
and had too much left at the end.  Althogh I would much rather run a race
like that, I do beleieve that I am getting an understanding what kinfdof pace
I should keep now!  There is nothing better then crossing the finsish line
and having people tell you that you had a great finish.  My next race will
be on Hallwoeen at the Eeerie Eerie.  I will run in the 10K.  I an hoping to
run an even better race as I felt grwat and enjoyed my run a whole deal!

I have one more question though...why is the Bolder Boulder so p[opular?  I
saw in the latest 'Runner's World' that it is the 5th largest road race in
armerica.  I assume that it doesn't include any marathon by any means.  What 
appeals to runners to come and compete in this event?  The is on
e reason I like being in Colorado is the altitude.  Not being the a 'seasoned' 
racer, I was awed at having Arturo Barrios, the holder of the road and track 
world record of the 10K, start this 'little' 5 mile road race!  I understand 
that training at high alitutudes, such as Colorado, is great for runners 
themselves, but what exactly makes a certain road race so popular?  That
tradition?  How long has the Bolder Boulder been around.  That is the one
race I am looking forward too as it si 'THE' race around here and I have a 
while before it to train for it.

Once again, thanks to those who gave me racing tips as I think I know where to
pace myself now.  My next race is Halloween and it will be a 10K, I think I 
will be prepared for it this time!

-A few more inches,
Eric Lorenzo *pant*
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: kramerro@columbia.dsu.edu (ROGER A. KRAMER)
Subject: races
Organization: Dakota State University
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 22:27:00 GMT

	I am looking for some Fall and Winter  road races around 
my region.  I live near Sioux Falls SD.  I would like these races to be 
rather close by say 100 mile radius.  Can anyone help me?

						thanks,
						kramerro@columbia.dsu.edu
From: stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: No Marathon Legs?
Date: 30 Sep 92 15:58:44 GMT
Organization: Unocal Corporation

In article <52540002@hpscit.sc.hp.com> karl@hpscit.sc.hp.com (Karl Watanabe) writes:
>
>Hi running netters,
>
>I had been an occasional runner for the last 5 years - I only trained
>for a May 10K and then usually stopped running until the next year.
>
>Well, this year was different.  I started training in Feb and got up
>to 35 miles per week.  I even continued after the May race and a few
>friends said I should be able to do a marathon if I trained correctly.
>I don't know why, but I decided to try it and for the last 3 months
>I have been adding 1 mile per week until now I am just approaching
>20 miles on my long run.
>
>My problem is I am running out of legs after 16 miles.  I have done
>3 18 mile runs, but I can't seem to go further because after 16 miles,
>my legs feel like s..t!  I tried slowing down to 9 min miles (just
>to see if that would make a difference) and my legs felt worse than
>at 8 min miles.  I was wondering if I just don't have the ability
>to run a marathon.  I'm not going for records, I just wanted to run
>one marathon in my life without walking but I'm not so sure I can
>make it.  How about some advice from the experts?

Actually running a race can be different from training for it.
The excitement of the other runners and spectators sometimes helps give the
runner energy to complete the race.  In fact, the excitement can be a
problem when it encourages one to go too fast at the beginning and burn out
sooner.

Take it easy the last week or two before the marathon.  Cut back mileage 10
or so miles.  Take an extra rest day.  That will heelp.
From: mvm@caesun6.epg.harris.com (Matt Mahoney)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: No Marathon Legs?
Date: 5 Oct 92 13:09:39 GMT
Reply-To: mvm@epg.harris.com (Matt Mahoney)
Organization: Engineering Productivity Group, Harris Corp., Melbourne, FL

fkittred@spchp11.BBN.COM (Fletcher Kittredge) writes:
>
>What I find hard to believe about this is all those runners who run
>more than 150+ miles a week while training for marathons and don't
>have tendon problems.

You mean like John Campbell, who ran Boston in 2:11:04 at age 40 and
trained 180 miles/week, mostly at a 5:10-5:20 pace?  But how many people
do you really know that can train like that?  A world class runner has to,
but how many of us can be world class runners?

I run for physical fitness, not world records.  Just finishing a marathon
puts you in the top 1% of the population, and that's a much more reasonable
goal.

About 2/3 of all runners are injured each year from overtraining.  I keep
my mileage low because it reduces the risk of injury, but I still get
most of the training benefit.

It IS possible to run a marathon on 15 miles per week if you are
careful to get enough variety in your training.  If anyone's interested,
I'll post my training schedule.

--------------------------------        _\/_
Matt Mahoney, mvm@epg.harris.com       |(TV)|  Drug of the Nation
#include <disclaimer.h>                |____|
From: tuttle@crl.dec.com (Mark R. Tuttle)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Any Thanksgiving Day races in Philadelphia?
Date: 5 Oct 92 22:38:24 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: DEC Cambridge Research Lab

In article <TUTTLE.92Sep28160942@platte.crl.dec.com> 
				tuttle@crl.dec.com (Mark R. Tuttle) writes:

   Are there any 5K to 10K races in Philadelphia over the Thanksgiving holiday?
   I will be staying on Locust Street near the Curtis Institute of Music
   with only public transportation available, if that matters at all.

I didn't get any responses, so I thought I'd ask a second and final time.

Thanks,
Mark

Mark R. Tuttle                                 tuttle@crl.dec.com
DEC Cambridge Research Lab                     (617) 621-6635    
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: mvm@caesun6.epg.harris.com (Matt Mahoney)
Subject: Re: No Marathon Legs?
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 17:11:11 GMT
Reply-To: mvm@epg.harris.com (Matt Mahoney)
Organization: Engineering Productivity Group, Harris Corp., Melbourne, FL

karl@hpscit.sc.hp.com (Karl Watanabe) writes:

>My problem is I am running out of legs after 16 miles.  I have done
>3 18 mile runs, but I can't seem to go further because after 16 miles,
>my legs feel like s..t!

You should not be doing a long run like this every week.  If you are
following Galloway's technique, then after your long run reaches 12
miles, increase by 2 miles every 2 weeks.  Your last long run should
be at least 3 weeks before the marathon.

A long run produces cumulative muscle damage that takes about 2 months to 
heal.  However, the adaptation that results is also quite long-lasting. 
I do my last long run 2 months before the marathon without any loss of
conditioning.

--------------------------------        _\/_
Matt Mahoney, mvm@epg.harris.com       |(TV)|  Drug of the Nation
#include <disclaimer.h>                |____|
From: mvm@caesun6.epg.harris.com (Matt Mahoney)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: No Marathon Legs?
Date: 2 Oct 92 17:04:57 GMT
Reply-To: mvm@epg.harris.com (Matt Mahoney)
Organization: Engineering Productivity Group, Harris Corp., Melbourne, FL

milts@mse.cse.ogi.edu (Milt Scholl) writes:
>mvm@epg.harris.com (Matt Mahoney) writes:
>>
>>A long run produces cumulative muscle damage that takes about 2 months to 
>>heal.  However, the adaptation that results is also quite long-lasting. 
>>I do my last long run 2 months before the marathon without any loss of
>>conditioning.
>>
>I disagree.  You CAN train yourself to recover much faster. I routinely
>run marathon distances or greater without muscle damage that takes
>more than a day or two, at most a week, to recover from.  I have
>run 20 mile runs a week after a 50 mile trail race.  And I am not alone
>many ultramarathoners do the same.  Its all a matter of training, with
>the key being to TRAIN not _TRASH_ yourself.

I also recover within a few days after a marathon.  Soreness in the quads
is muscle damage, which takes about 2 days to heal.  (This is why we 
alternate hard/easy days).

The cumulative damage I was talking about is to the tendons.  If you 
doubled your mileage, it would probably take about 2 months to produce 
some kind of overuse injury.  Then, if you stopped running, it would 
take about 2 months to heal.  Or if you cut back to 1/2 of your 
original mileage, it would take 4 months to heal.

I run about 15 miles per week and try to hold that average over a 2 month
window.  If I run a marathon, I "pay back" the miles by, for instance,
averaging 10 mi/week for 5 weeks.

The point I wanted to make was that you can run marathons on low mileage
(to reduce injury risk) by spacing the long runs far apart.

--------------------------------        _\/_
Matt Mahoney, mvm@epg.harris.com       |(TV)|  Drug of the Nation
#include <disclaimer.h>                |____|
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: teshima@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (A. Lani Teshima)
Subject: Re: What are "franchise" shoes?
Organization: University of Hawaii
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 07:52:51 GMT

In article <1992Oct1.075018.1470@news.Hawaii.Edu> teshima@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (A. Lani Teshima) writes:
>I was reading the 1992 Fall Shoe Buyers' Guide in the October issue of
>Runner's World, and I happened to come across something I didn't quite
>understand.
>
>On page 74 where they feature the new Saucony Bangor model, they said
>this in their evaluation:
>	Saucony is attempting to develop its own reasonably priced
>	"franchise" shoe, similar to the Asics Saga and Nike Icarus...
>So what the heck is a "franchise" shoe? Does that mean that the Foot
>Locker will carry it? Does it mean that the K-Marts and Wal-Marts will
>carry it? I've scratched myself on this one, and don't know what it
           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>means.

Oh my goodness, I just caught this while en-posting! Egads, that
sounds terrible! I meant to say:

"I've scratched my head on this one." !!!

Please, no teasing!


--
A. Lani Teshima (teshima@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.edu)       o | /_/_/ "Sea Hare"
Student, UH School of Library & Information Studies     o|<0_0>--------*
A small mind is easily filled with faith.                 \=^-| |____| | 
Blessed is a mind too small for doubt.                        \_}B   \_}B
From: milts@mse.cse.ogi.edu (Milt Scholl)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: No Marathon Legs?
Date: 30 Sep 92 22:30:21 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.43463
Organization: Oregon Graduate Institute, Material Science & Engineering

mvm@epg.harris.com (Matt Mahoney) writes:
>
>A long run produces cumulative muscle damage that takes about 2 months to 
>heal.  However, the adaptation that results is also quite long-lasting. 
>I do my last long run 2 months before the marathon without any loss of
>conditioning.
>
>Matt Mahoney, mvm@epg.harris.com       |(TV)|  Drug of the Nation
>#include <disclaimer.h>                |____|

I disagree.  You CAN train yourself to recover much faster. I routinely
run marathon distances or greater without muscle damage that takes
more than a day or two, at most a week, to recover from.  I have
run 20 mile runs a week after a 50 mile trail race.  And I am not alone
many ultramarathoners do the same.  Its all a matter of training, with
the key being to TRAIN not _TRASH_ yourself.

-milt scholl

From: karl@hpscit.sc.hp.com (Karl Watanabe)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 17:41:37 GMT
Subject: No Marathon Legs?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Clara, CA
Newsgroups: rec.running


Hi running netters,

I had been an occasional runner for the last 5 years - I only trained
for a May 10K and then usually stopped running until the next year.

Well, this year was different.  I started training in Feb and got up
to 35 miles per week.  I even continued after the May race and a few
friends said I should be able to do a marathon if I trained correctly.
I don't know why, but I decided to try it and for the last 3 months
I have been adding 1 mile per week until now I am just approaching
20 miles on my long run.

My problem is I am running out of legs after 16 miles.  I have done
3 18 mile runs, but I can't seem to go further because after 16 miles,
my legs feel like s..t!  I tried slowing down to 9 min miles (just
to see if that would make a difference) and my legs felt worse than
at 8 min miles.  I was wondering if I just don't have the ability
to run a marathon.  I'm not going for records, I just wanted to run
one marathon in my life without walking but I'm not so sure I can
make it.  How about some advice from the experts?

Karl Watanabe
email: karl@sc.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: lorenzo@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (Eric J. Lorenzo)
Subject: Asics address?
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 22:18:13 GMT

Does anyone know an address for Asics?  I wanted to ask them some questions 
and bitch about them pulling out of the mail-order market.  Preferably a U.S.
address as the one on my shoe box was in Japan.

Thanks in advance,
Eric
From: mvm@caesun6.epg.harris.com (Matt Mahoney)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: No Marathon Legs?
Date: 6 Oct 92 15:50:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: mlb.1992Oct6.155009.22432
Reply-To: mvm@epg.harris.com (Matt Mahoney)
Organization: Engineering Productivity Group, Harris Corp., Melbourne, FL

I wrote:
>It IS possible to run a marathon on 15 miles per week if you are
>careful to get enough variety in your training.  If anyone's interested,
>I'll post my training schedule.

Well, a few people were interested.  I do triathlons, so:

Mon.  Lift weights, full body
Tue.  Swim, possibly aerobics
Wed.  Short bike or something different (see below)
Thu.  Run intervals
Fri.  Lift, upper body only
Sat.  Long bike
Sun.  Race or triathlon
Total: swim 1.2 mi, bike 70, run 15, other 2.5 hrs.

That is typical, but varies according to my mood.  Occasionally, I'll
do other exercises such as in-line skating, race-walking, stair climbing,
rowing, volleyball, etc.  Variety is critical.

I lift the heaviest weights I can for one set of 6-10 reps.  A full body
workout consists of 30-40 different exercises using both free weights
and machines.  I try to add a new exercise every couple of weeks.  About
once a month, I use about 60% of my normal weights and 20-30 reps/set in
order to build lactate tolerance instead of strength.

For all aerobic workouts, I vary my pace from easy to all-out.  Intervals
and rest periods range from a few seconds to several minutes.  It is
important to do at least part of most workouts at faster than race pace.
This could mean a hard effort, but could also mean swimming with fins,
biking in a pack, running downhill, etc.  This way, you develop motor
skills as well as endurance.

I run intervals, fartlek, or negative splits in about 70% of my runs.
Another 20% is racing (steady pace), and 10% is long distance (run
slowly until it hurts).  I don't do junk miles, since the only benifit
there is cardiovascular and I get that from biking and swimming. 
My long runs are well spaced: 10-13 miles once a month, 20+ miles every
2-4 months.

I vary the terrain by running cross country (hashing, orienteering),
running barefoot on sand or grass, or running on hills (actually
bridges), with both uphill and downhill intervals.  I'll experiment
occasionally with running backwards or in shallow water, or anything
else I can think of.

--------------------------------        _\/_
Matt Mahoney, mvm@epg.harris.com       |(TV)|  Drug of the Nation
#include <disclaimer.h>                |____|
From: benz@bigwpi.WPI.EDU (Melanie Trina Lomas)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Stress Fractures and running again
Date: 29 Sep 1992 22:56:54 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
NNTP-Posting-Host: bigwpi.wpi.edu

Hello. About six months ago I had a stress fracture. My doctor told me not to
run for six weeks. The fracture was in my right lower shin. I have started 
running again and it feels fine. I was wondering what are my chances of having
another stress fracture. I am in college and I do hurdles so I am landing
hard on my legs. I recently bought Nike Airs. My doctor and the trainer at
school think I should gain weight. I am 5'8" and 115 pounds. I have a really
hard time gaining weight. They seem to think that this is weight related. I 
have tried to gain weight but it just does not work. If anyone could answer
my questions or give me advice, it would be great. Thanks!!!


-Melanie
-benz@wpi.wpi.edu
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: lorenzo@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (Eric J. Lorenzo)
Subject: racing pace
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 23:35:56 GMT

I was wondering how most experinced racers set their pace during a race.  I've 
been running for a while now, but have just started to run in races.  I ran
my first 5k on Labor Day and psyched myself out because of all the other 
runners; I started too fast and was dead at the end.

I have a 5 miler coming Saturday, and hope to keep a more level head this time.
Do most runners keep a constant pace throughout the whole race?  I tend to
take it easier towards the beginning of my runs then gradually speed up. Any
tips out there that might help me run a better race?

Thanks in advance,
Eric

Newsgroups: rec.running
From: lpc@dickens.com (Luis P Caamano)
Subject: Re: Desperately Seeking Shoes
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 03:14:23 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Dickens Data Systems, Inc.

In article <1992Sep29.191700.5585@EE.Stanford.EDU> seema@playfair.Stanford.EDU (Seema Sonnad) writes:
>... shoes that will work best for you.  An excellent
>shop near here has told me that they have completely 
>stopped carrying any NIKE running shoes due to the high 
>rate of injury reports they were getting.

Uhmmm, I think the real reason didn't have to do with injuries ...
perhaps marketing? 

>
>If you need to just go out and buy a pair  of running shoes 
>quickly, you might try the Saucony Jazz, which seem to be high 
>in everyone's ratings from Consumer Reports to Running World and 
>Shape magazines.

This is the first time I here something good about Suacony other
than in their own add. 

From Runner's World April 1992 issue, page 68:

"... If Phidippides had worn shoes, he probably would have worn
the Pegasus. ... The Air Pegasus has gone up $5, but it remains
one of the best training shoes in the history of the sport."

OK, but before that it says:

"NOT RECOMMENDED FOR severe overpronators who need maximum
control."

If the salesman in that excellent shop sells this shoe, for
example, to an overpronator, then that customer is going to get
injured in a matter of weeks (depending on the week mileage).
And if they did that to every customer because of marketing
reasons (you know, this is the shoe with the highest markup, etc)
then they would have lots of complaints.

I think that just a few shoe store salesmen know enough
about running shoes.

As you said earlier, the shoe that works for you might 
not work for me.

-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Luis P. Caamano                    |         lpc@dickens.com
Dickens Data Systems, Inc.         |         uunet!dickens.com!lpc
Atlanta, GA                        |         (404) 475-8860
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
If I think I know it all, I'll stop learning. -myself
The more I learn, the more I know I know nothing. -somebody else
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: lpc@dickens.com (Luis P Caamano)
Subject: Re: No Marathon Legs?
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 15:02:20 GMT
Organization: Dickens Data Systems, Inc.

In article <52540005@hpscit.sc.hp.com> karl@hpscit.sc.hp.com (Karl Watanabe) writes:
>
>
>How do you plant your fuel along the way?  I used to run a 2 mile lake

I bought one of those belts with a bottle (JANDD?) for rollerblading
some time ago.  After your first post I went and ran 9 miles with
the bottle and the belt.  It felt kind of strange at first but
it's possible.  I would not do it on a race but it fills the
purpose on a training run.  Anyway, it only holds ~16oz which
gives you 400 cal of carbo, vitamins, and minerals (using ultra 
fuel).  I don't know if that's going to be enough for the whole 
26-30 miles but at least you'll go over the hump.

That leads me to a question:  Does anybody know of a typical
figure for calories burned per mile at a 70-75% HR effort or
something like that?

Anyway, about planting it (I haven't done it), I guess you just
fill a few bottles, put them in a bag, go along your route, and
hide them in the bushes.  I don't see any problem with that.  The
worst case is that somebody might take it.


-- 
Luis P. Caamano                        |         lpc@dickens.com
Dickens Data Systems, Inc. Atlanta, GA |         uunet!dickens.com!lpc
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
If I think I know it all, I'll stop learning. -myself
The more I learn, the more I know I know nothing. -somebody else
From: pereira_f@spcvxb.spc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Thanks for the help..Rod, Tim...etc.
Date: 1 Oct 92 03:53:12 GMT
Organization: St. Peter's College, US

Just wanted to THANK  all those who gave me great suggestions and advice.
My knee is now 99 percent and I have been training long distances and 
speed workouts, both on grass and on the track. I took 2 weeks off from
running and hit the weight room...and it seemed to work for me...I have 
been training for the last 2 weeks with no soreness or pain in my knee.
I am  glad to get over that injury.....but that is what you get for trying
to achive my old times in 2 months after a 3 year layoff!
Thanks for all the great advice. I guess  that it proves that you can't always
run with your heart sometimes you just got use your head and everything else
will gradually fall into place...
see ya,
Felix Pereira

My new e-mail adress is PEREIRA_F@spcvxa.spc.edu
as opposed to 2pereira_f@spcvxa.spc.edu
later guys