From: rpitts@emperor.gatech.edu (Richard Pitts)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
Subject: Re: A Question for the Pro-Lifers or Anti-Abortionists or whatever
Date: 5 Nov 92 18:31:43 GMT
Organization: CERL-EE, Georgia Institue of Technology

In article <1db5u1INN6d7@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de> frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O'Dwyer) writes:
|In article <1992Nov3.211808.4035@ncsu.edu> jjprice@eos.ncsu.edu (JEFFREY JAMES PRICE) writes:
|>I am relatively new to this net and while I consider myself pro-life I "try"
|>not to force anything down anyones throat (although I'm sure it might seem 
|>so at the time I try not to.)
|
|Hi Jeff.  Until very recently I held views which were rather similar to
|yours.  I'd like to try to explain to you what changed my mind.
|
|Doesn't it sound unspeakably cruel to bring pressure to bear on an unwilling
|woman - maybe your own daughter someday - in an attempt to force her to give

If you are pleading on the half of incest or rape victims, that is
one matter.  However, the MAJORITY do not fall into this and they 
DO NOT fall into this supposed UNWILLING catagory.  They may and 
probably do fall into the UNPLANNED or rather LACK OF PLANNING 
catagory or even into the UNEDUCATED one.  Families needs to teach their 
children (males and females) how to control their body - don't just let 
them run wild and then excuse their actions.  The error of thinking
that pregancy is unwilling is that the action (the sex act) is so 
trivialized and young girls think they need to give themselves to
some supposed man to gain acceptance.  Everyone needs to learn self-control
and self-acceptance.  One doesn't really gain either by having sex.

|birth?  Pregnancy, and birth are not trivial matters to undergo - birth in
|particular can be excruciatingly painful and humilating (I am told) and is
|not something to be pressed on anyone against their will.

The painful part, if you are talking about labor, can be tremendously
reduced if not eliminated with some of the modern pain medicines
(e.g., epidurals?).

As far as the humiliating part goes, most women see their doctors 
regularly - similar humilation occurs whether they are pregant or not.  
However, the outcome of the pregancy can be tremendously exhilarating.

|So why do pro-lifers seek to enact such legislation?  I hope that you are not

To keep one from doing things that hurt them, one often has to put a
penality on the action.  When one is raising children they just don't
let them play with fire nor stick their hands in the electrical outlet,
but they warn and punish to show them there is a reason to avoid such
things.  Later they are able, the the child is teachable through reasoning,
to teach the child the WHY about fire and electricity.

Look at drugs - people are moving into education.  They let it slide
too long.  The same needs to be done with sex conduct (i.e., self-control.)

|interested in doing that, now or ever.  Would you do it in order to save
|lives?  The law does not force _us_ to save lives, why should it force
|pregnant women?  For example, I've never encountered a pro-lifer saying that
|people should be forced to give blood.  And _that_ is only a small jab with a
|needle...

The law does not necessarily force ANY good behavior.  It keeps some of
the real bad stuff from happening though.  

People are hearlded for rushing into a burning building to save someone's
life.  The law doesn't force them to do so, but out of love and concern
for another they do.  

There are many things the law prohibits, but against the good things
(love, mercy, justice, self-control) there is no law.  We should be
trying to exceed in doing these good things and not living down in the 
gutter and trying to get by on the skin of our teeth, but live above the law.

On the topic of forcing one to save anothers life, the courts often
make it prohibitive to even try, for the malpractice suits drain the
system.

|>As to your question I assume there will still be people blockading clinics
|>or bombingthem(their prefrence) and there will be those like me that
|>try and convince people that abortion is wrong(try futilly) and there will

Convincing (educating) people that abortion is wrong is commended,
as is educating people on how to use/control and respect their own
bodies and minds as well as the bodies and minds of others.  The
same goes for those who bomb - they need to be educated that this is
not good.  I think organized non-violent protest are worthwhile.

|Most people _are_ convinced that abortion is wrong.  Most people find
|abortion repugnant, and even those few who do not would like to see it made

Yet, two wrongs are not what is needed.

|unnecessary.  To do that _peacefully_, and _humanely_ means not to do it by
|bombing clinics or passing laws.   You might instead support measures which
|make birth control and sex education more widely accessible - you could also
|support measures which eliminate social injustices, especially those which
|impoverish women.  This will bring many benefits - and one them will be a
|reduction in abortions which are due to poverty and ignorance.

In different words, I believe, I said much of the same thing above.

|You can be - _must_ be - truly pro-choice in order to be truly pro-life.  The
|right to give birth comes with a right to abort, however unpalatable.  The

Let's get past this RIGHT stuff and move the issue to a higher level -
"one of love and desire for the best" and not one of "I can do this because
it is legal" type of attitude.

The OPPORTUNITY to give birth comes with the RESPONSIBILITY
to not despise human life and the RESPONSIBILITY to not abort it.

|right to save life comes with a right not to, however unpalatable.  And

The OPPORTUNITY to save a life brings with it the RESPONSIBILITY to save it.

|indeed, many women have _no_ choice in the matter - they find that their
|circumstances are such that their only moral option is _not_ to save a life
|- not today, not this time.  We are not entitled to their reasons.

In practically every other area of life people are called on the carpet
and called to court to give their reasons for being IRRESPONSIBLE.  Look
at the vigor people had about bringing EXXON to trial for their oil spill.
Look at the legal matters arising over the Iran and Iraq situations.

People want responsibility from everyone else, but themselves.

|All the best Jeff, and may all your choices be good ones.

May you be responsible.

|> - Jeff Price
|
|-- 
|Frank.ODwyer@ap.mchp.sni.de   "You take slaves when you make us free,
|                               when you make us free your way"
|                             World Party - 'Ain't going to come til I'm ready'
|                   

For Christ and His Kingdom,
Richard Pitts
-- 
rpitts@cerl.gatech.edu       |    
Atlanta, GA                --|-- 
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