HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: garys@netcom.com (Gary Stollman)
Subject: Re: Paradise lost and Medi-Cal...
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 18:51:51 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

mascdb@gdr.bath.ac.uk (C D Burdorf) writes:

>In article <1992Aug19.102346.20390@pony.Ingres.COM> marc_b@Ingres.COM (Marc Burckin) writes:
>>
>>I must disagree with you on this point. If you compare what you get here
>>in England with what you would get with a good HMO, the HMO would
>>*generally* give you better care(IMHO).

>How can you say that?  Do you have any studies to point to.

>I went to the doctor (GP) here in England for a problem and he was
>outraged at what I had been prescribed for it in the states.  It was
>a nasty addictive drug which didn't even help me much.  He prescribed
>another drug which was far more effective and it's not addictive.
>That's the UK (FREE) doctor did far better for me than the US (EXSPENSIVE)
>specialist.

>I've heard lots of horror stories about HMO's in California denying
>people treatment so they can cut costs. I had a flatmate in LA who
>worked for an HMO to help them cut costs.  One of the big things
>he said they do is tell old people that there's nothing they
>can do for them when they can, because in his words "most of
>our costs are for old people."   I just don't know where you
>get off saying that it's better than National health is here.  Certainly,
>it's not perfect here, but I think that a profit oriented health
>care system is basically evil. It's people reaping financial benifit
>out of the suffering of others.
*****
Another perfect example of the WORTHLESS state that California is!!


GARY STOLLMAN
(waiting, hoping, and praying for the BIG ONE)

-- 
Gary Stollman    Internet: garys@netcom.com     GEnie: G.STOLLMAN
-----------------------------------------------------------------
          The world is your playground.  Keep it clean! 
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Xref: sparky alt.california:1642 soc.culture.vietnamese:12056
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 21:13:01 EDT
From: <U4400@wvnvm.wvnet.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.california,rec.travel
Subject: Re: California info wanted!!!!

In article <1992Aug19.203215.1682@alcbase.gun.de>, erik@alcbase.gun.de (Erik
Forker) says:
>
>The following places will be part of our journey: San Francisco, Lake
>Tahoe, Death Valley, Las Vegas, Grand Canyon, Phoenix,
>San Diego, Los Angeles...
>Since we have four weeks, we were in no hurry and would like to stop at some
>interesting places. Could you please give us some advice about spending
>our time the best way??
>
Sounds like a fun trip.  When you drive between San Francisco and Los
Angeles, be SURE to take the Route 1 and not the silly freeway.  The
Route 1 (which combines with the 101 in places) is a georgeous trip
along the Central Coast of California, including Monterey, San Simeon,
San Luis Obispo, Santa Barbara and many great places to stop and enjoy
the beach and the ocean.  Whenever you see something interesting, stop
and check it out!  (Since I just sent you past Hearst Castle, I suppose
I ought to mention it.  It is near San Simeon, and is a huge, incredibly
bizarre house built by a millionare newpaper publisher, I think in the
1930s.  If you can afford it, it is kind of neat to see, in a weird sort
of way.  I got my dad to pay for it when he visited me once.)  In Santa
Barbara, find the ocean (not too hard) and Shoreline Drive.  Ask around
to find your way to Shoreline Park, and take the stairs from the park
down to the beach.  Walk along the bottom of the cliffs, look for sea
hares and octopi in the tidepools, and run in the sand.  It is my
favorite place on earth (and my dog's favorite place too!  She can't
wait until we get back there in about 5 weeks!)
California's a great place to visit, even if it is too expensive to live
in for very long.
E-mail me if you want more places to see.
|
/--------------------------/----------------------:
|      Eric T. Meyer      /   u4400@wvnvm.bitnet  |
|                        / u4400@wvnvm.wvnet.edu  |
|-----------------------/-------------------------|
|  Our life is more than our work, and            |
|  our work is more than our job.                 |
|                                 - Charlie King  |
:-------------------------------------------------/
|
From: jimj@cleanplate.EBay.Sun.COM (James D. Jones)
Newsgroups: alt.california
Subject: Re: Paradise lost and Medi-Cal...
Date: 19 Aug 92 16:26:58 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: cleanplate.ebay.sun.com

In article <1992Aug17.233435.22487@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> Ariel.A.Vitali@dartmouth.edu (Ariel A. Vitali) writes:
<Hello, fellow Californians!
<
<I still wonder how in the hell my home can still maintain a reputation
<of being a "paradise."  I escaped Orange County to attend medical
<school in the Northeast.  Sure, it isn't as sunny in Hanover, NH as it
<is in Buena Park, CA, but I almost had a breakdown with the crowds, the
<traffic from hell, especially driving to Riverside.
<I love California, it is my home, but things are falling apart so
<quickly that I am definitely NOT coming back for my residency/practice.
< And it's not because there are too many doctors there, either ('cause
<there is!).

(list of California's many woes deleted)

I agree with you about all the things that are wrong here.  They must
be put right, or things will get even worse.

I see a lot of people on the net posting the equivalent of "California's
going down the tubes!  I was born here, but there's crime and crowding
and traffic so I'm bailing!"  It's conceivable
that I'd leave, but things would have to get _awfully_ bad.  Because:

  Nowhere else that I have been (in my modest travels) has U.S. society been
  so accepting of differences in lifestyle and values.  I didn't say
  all individuals were tolerant -- I said society.
  
  Nowhere else could I interact so freely with people of different cultures.
  There are cultural and class barriers here, but they are lower than in other
  places.  

  Nowhere else do I think I would be as free to be me, nor would the people
  dear to me be free to be themselves.
 
Ariel, sounds like you have a good practical reason for being somewhere
else:  you want to practice medicine, and you want to do it someplace where
the medical system ain't broke.  Fair enough.   But for the reasons I
mentioned, I plan to stick around.

I also think that there's a lot of hysteria in the air. Three years ago
everybody was real positive, even though the same problems were obviously
building.  Now they can't be ignored anymore, and everybody's wringing their
hands. We have to make some hard choices about what's important to us now,
and it's scary.  I think if we make the right choices we can come out of
it in a new direction that will work for us.  Whether we make those choices
correctly remains to be seem. 
Newsgroups: alt.california
From: andrewg@ece.cmu.edu (Andrew R. Ghali)
Subject: Re: Paradise lost and Medi-Cal...
Originator: andrewg@viper.ECE.CMU.EDU
Organization: Electrical and Computer Engineering, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 19:05:17 GMT


In article <1992Aug19.155004.245@gdr.bath.ac.uk>, mascdb@gdr.bath.ac.uk (C D Burdorf) writes:
...
|> That's the UK (FREE) doctor did far better for me than the US (EXSPENSIVE)
                 ^^^^^^                                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^
|> specialist.

------Flame on--------

And you wonder why things are so screwed up.  "Damn it, I'm entitled to
FREE socialized ________!" (fill in the blank)  Why do you think medi-cal
is so screwed? how about billions of dollars being pissed away to subsidize
people who can't or won't take responsibility for their lives.  "Well, damnit,
those rich bourgeois middle-class fat cats can afford to subsidize everyone.
Hell, they'd probably end up wasting the money on themselves anyway.  The
greedy pigs!" is the attitude that will drag this country to third rate
economic backwash.  The scariest part of the November elections is National
Health Care- not Bush or Clinton, they can only do minor damage in 4 years.
Something like NHC would be a long term screw up of such phenomonal propor-
tions that it boggles the mind.  I grew up in Hawaii; you know, the state with
the frequently cited model health care system.  Yeah, if it's so damn good and
efficient, why are the tax rates in Hawaii unrivaled anywhere else (with the
possible exception of NYC)?  Not to mention the revenue the state plunders off
of tourists - the poor saps get zapped in wallet every time they turn around.
I know of doctors that have quit their practices because between taxes and
malpractice insurance (now that's a whole 'nother can o' worms) they were
making less than hourly state employees.

Yeah, I was born in California, and just left after working for 5 years in so.
cal and I have no intention of returning.  I could see the ugly trend forming
and the state will be screwed forever.  Remember, FREE = government money =
tax dollars =  YOUR money = YOUR work != somebody else's problem.  You want
something, you pay for it yourself.

After the RIGHT to free health care, I fully extpect the next right to be
_discovered_ is the RIGHT to television.  First the poor will get TV assistance,
then there will be nationalized free TV distribution, cable services will be
paid for by the government, then who knows, subsized VCR's?

Wake up, and take responsibility for your life.  No one OWES you anything.

---------Flame off--------

No, I'm not really a mean person, I just hate whining.

Andrew
Newsgroups: alt.california
From: holly@mailhub.scf.lmsc.lockheed.com (Holly Wise)
Subject: Re: LOSERS!!!
Summary: IF YOU WANT TO DIE IN AN EARTHQUAKE, COME HERE!!!
Keywords: ASSHOLES, FAGGOTS, AND SLUTS...
Organization: Lockheed Santa Cruz, CA.
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 18:45:53 GMT

In article <!s0m3p.garys@netcom.com> garys@netcom.com (Gary Stollman) writes:


>THE DODGERS SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>THE RAMS SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>THE RAIDERS SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>THE KINGS SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>THE LAKERS SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>THE GIANTS SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>THE 49ERS SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  I BEG YOUR PARDON.  THE 49ERS ARE GREAT AND THE NEXT SUPERBOWL CHAMPIONS!

>THE A'S SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>THE PADRES SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>AND CALIFORNIA SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Good.  Tell everyone California sucks, maybe the population will go down 
again.  


>THE YANKEES RULE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>THE METS RULE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>THE NEW YORK GIANTS RULE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>THE BRAVES RULE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Yankees Suck
The Mets Suck
The New York Giants Suck
The Braves Suck

>NEW YORK!!!!!    NEW YORK!!!!!
>(sung to the Frank Sinatra tune...)

Does this mean you live in New York?  I hope it does because California 
doesn't want you! 

-----
holly@mailhub.scf.lmsc.lockheed.com
Newsgroups: alt.california
From: phz@cadence.com (Pete Zakel)
Subject: Re: Advice needed: relocation to the Bay area
Organization: Cadence Design Systems
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 20:18:25 GMT

In article <23593@oasys.dt.navy.mil> lung@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Terence Lung) writes:
>phz@cadence.com (Pete Zakel) wrote:
>>Actually, there are no blue jays in California -- blue jays are an eastern
>>bird.  What we have here that most people call "blue jays" are scrub jays.
>>Stellar's jays are also blue, and have a crest.  But none are near as
>>beautiful as the blue jay.
>
>whoa...my kindergarten teacher told me they were blue jays...uh oh...
>my entire appreciation of her's been shattered.  we're talking about
>the ones with the crests on their heads right?  the one's without
>crests are equally annoying though if you're trying to have a picnic.

The only crested jays in California are the Stellar's jays.  The scrub jay
is what I've heard most people refer to as "blue jays", and have a mixture of
blue and tan and white.  The Stellar's jay is a darker blue all over, with
faint darker markings similar to the "windowpane" markings of the blue jay.

The eastern blue jay (the true blue jay) is also crested, and is a beautiful
blue color (almost a turquoise blue -- similar to the blue on a scrub jay),
with black lines that give a windowpane effect, and white underneath (hopefully
I'm remembering correctly).  They are quite annoying at picnics, too.  I've
seen them swoop out of a tree, land on a picnic table and make off with
something while everyone was at the table.

-Pete Zakel
 (phz@cadence.com or ..!uunet!cadence!phz)

Lunatic Asylum, n.:
	The place where optimism most flourishes.
Newsgroups: alt.california
From: wklaus@nyx.cs.du.edu (Walter Klaus)
Subject: Re: Housing in Monterey area
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 11:24:48 GMT

In article <25456@dog.ee.lbl.gov> julian@baldur.lbl.gov (julian cortella)
writes:
>In article <1992Aug13.150025.20871@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> wklaus@nyx.cs.du
edu (Walter Klaus) writes:
>>
>>We are moving to the Monterey area in September and we are seeking to
>>rent a three bedroom house. Willing to pay from $800 to $1200. We are n
a
>                                                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>                 !HA!    !HA!      !HA!      !HA!       !HA!
>
>Sorry, Walter, I don't mean to be rude, but have you looked in a paper
>from the Monterey area?  You >might< be able to find a two bedroom
>apartment for that amount, if you're thinking of right around Monterey.
>
>You would have to pretty far inland to find a house for your asking pric
.
>
>I love to see the shock on people's faces when they first look for
>housing in California. :-0  
>
>:-<
>
>


Yes you are being rude. I asked for assistance and received a simple
anser from a simpelton.
From: mascdb@gdr.bath.ac.uk (C D Burdorf)
Newsgroups: alt.california
Subject: Re: Paradise lost and Medi-Cal...
Date: 19 Aug 92 15:50:04 GMT
Organization: School of Mathematics, University of Bath, UK

In article <1992Aug19.102346.20390@pony.Ingres.COM> marc_b@Ingres.COM (Marc Burckin) writes:
>
>I must disagree with you on this point. If you compare what you get here
>in England with what you would get with a good HMO, the HMO would
>*generally* give you better care(IMHO).

How can you say that?  Do you have any studies to point to.

I went to the doctor (GP) here in England for a problem and he was
outraged at what I had been prescribed for it in the states.  It was
a nasty addictive drug which didn't even help me much.  He prescribed
another drug which was far more effective and it's not addictive.
That's the UK (FREE) doctor did far better for me than the US (EXSPENSIVE)
specialist.

I've heard lots of horror stories about HMO's in California denying
people treatment so they can cut costs. I had a flatmate in LA who
worked for an HMO to help them cut costs.  One of the big things
he said they do is tell old people that there's nothing they
can do for them when they can, because in his words "most of
our costs are for old people."   I just don't know where you
get off saying that it's better than National health is here.  Certainly,
it's not perfect here, but I think that a profit oriented health
care system is basically evil. It's people reaping financial benifit
out of the suffering of others.
Newsgroups: alt.california
From: holly@mailhub.scf.lmsc.lockheed.com (Holly Wise)
Subject: Re: OOPS!!!
Keywords: Losers of the major kind...
Organization: Lockheed Santa Cruz, CA.
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 14:04:07 GMT

In article <3d!nkcp.mbk@netcom.com> mbk@netcom.com (Miles Kehoe) writes:

>The amazing thing is this guy's email address is in San Jose 
>California. Hm....


I guess he must be a "LOSER" too of the most major kind.  Either that or he 
wants everyone to leave the state so he can have it all to himself.
-----
holly@mailhub.scf.lmsc.lockheed.com
From: julian@baldur.lbl.gov (julian cortella)
Newsgroups: alt.california
Subject: Re: Housing in Monterey area
Date: 13 Aug 1992 15:47:47 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory, Berkeley CA USA
Distribution: usa
Reply-To: julian@baldur.lbl.gov (julian cortella)
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.128.80

In article <1992Aug13.150025.20871@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> wklaus@nyx.cs.du.edu (Walter Klaus) writes:
>
>We are moving to the Monterey area in September and we are seeking to
>rent a three bedroom house. Willing to pay from $800 to $1200. We are nea
                                                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
                 !HA!    !HA!      !HA!      !HA!       !HA!

Sorry, Walter, I don't mean to be rude, but have you looked in a paper
from the Monterey area?  You >might< be able to find a two bedroom
apartment for that amount, if you're thinking of right around Monterey.

You would have to pretty far inland to find a house for your asking price.

I love to see the shock on people's faces when they first look for
housing in California. :-0  

:-<


Newsgroups: alt.california
From: holly@mailhub.scf.lmsc.lockheed.com (Holly Wise)
Subject: Re: Paradise lost and Medi-Cal...
Organization: Lockheed Santa Cruz, CA.
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 21:40:41 GMT

In article <+1!nv0p.garys@netcom.com> garys@netcom.com (Gary Stollman) writes:


>Another perfect example of the WORTHLESS state that California is!!


>GARY STOLLMAN
>(waiting, hoping, and praying for the BIG ONE)


If you hate California so much, why do you even read this group.  Why should 
you CARE if we fall into the ocean (wanting the BIG ONE so much)?  Sounds 
like you were jilted by a California and blame the whole state for someone 
else's good sense.
-----
holly@mailhub.scf.lmsc.lockheed.com
Newsgroups: alt.california,rec.travel
From: charleen@ADS.COM (Charleen Bunjiovianna)
Subject: Re: California info wanted!!!!
Organization: The Original Estrogen-Crazed Lust Bunnies
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 23:43:22 GMT

In article <92233.211301U4400@wvnvm.wvnet.edu> U4400@wvnvm.wvnet.edu writes:
>In article <1992Aug19.203215.1682@alcbase.gun.de>, erik@alcbase.gun.de (Erik
>Forker) says:
>>
>>The following places will be part of our journey: San Francisco, Lake
>>Tahoe, Death Valley, Las Vegas, Grand Canyon, Phoenix,
>>San Diego, Los Angeles...
>>Since we have four weeks, we were in no hurry and would like to stop at some
>>interesting places. Could you please give us some advice about spending
>>our time the best way??
>>
>Sounds like a fun trip.  When you drive between San Francisco and Los
>Angeles, be SURE to take the Route 1 and not the silly freeway.  The
>Route 1 (which combines with the 101 in places) is a georgeous trip
>along the Central Coast of California, including Monterey, San Simeon,
>San Luis Obispo, Santa Barbara and many great places to stop and enjoy
>the beach and the ocean.  Whenever you see something interesting, stop
>and check it out!  

And be sure to allow several days for this.  There isn't much in San
Simeon, other than the Castle, but nearby Cambria is a pleasant place
to visit.

When in (or near) San Luis Obispo, stop at the Madonna Inn.  Stay there
if it's at all feasible.  If not, enjoy a meal in the coffee shop.  It's
a wonderfully indescribable place.

Monterey (actually nearby Pacific Grove) is home to a big factory outlet
mall:  the American Tin Cannery, about a block from the Monterey Aquarium.
The Aquarium itself is excellent and worth at least a half-day.

>(Since I just sent you past Hearst Castle, I suppose
>I ought to mention it.  It is near San Simeon, and is a huge, incredibly
>bizarre house built by a millionare newpaper publisher, I think in the
>1930s.  If you can afford it, it is kind of neat to see, in a weird sort
>of way.  I got my dad to pay for it when he visited me once.)  

I can't help but be amused.  Doesn't anyone watch classic movies
anymore?  Does _Citizen Kane_ ring a bell?

Junior, the buildings on the Hearst estate (his summer home, where he
"camped"--if you can imagine that!) were designed and built by Julia
Morgan to house Hearst's immense collection of treasures imported
(some would say plundered) from Europe.  With three guest cottages
(the fourth and fifth were started but never completed), two amazing
swimming pools and the immense main building, it's more than just an
"incredibly bizarre house".  It's Cuesta Encantada--The Enchanted Hill.

Charleen

--
How do you tell if a blonde did your landscaping?
The bushes are darker than the rest of the yard.
From: Ariel.A.Vitali@dartmouth.edu (Ariel A. Vitali)
Newsgroups: alt.california
Subject: Paradise lost and Medi-Cal...
Date: 17 Aug 92 23:34:35 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

Hello, fellow Californians!

I still wonder how in the hell my home can still maintain a reputation
of being a "paradise."  I escaped Orange County to attend medical
school in the Northeast.  Sure, it isn't as sunny in Hanover, NH as it
is in Buena Park, CA, but I almost had a breakdown with the crowds, the
traffic from hell, especially driving to Riverside.
I love California, it is my home, but things are falling apart so
quickly that I am definitely NOT coming back for my residency/practice.
 And it's not because there are too many doctors there, either ('cause
there is!).
I remember watching CNN a few weeks ago.  The story mentioned that the
population in SoCal will increase by about 6 million by 2020 or so. 
Please correct me if I'm wrong.  At that rate there will be a perpetual
rush hour in the entire state freeway system.  I can't imagine driving
on the 91 eastbound at 5 mph.  It was bad enough at 15 mph!
And now the clincher:  There was a story on NBC Nightly News about
Medi-Cal and its impending collapse due to the budget crisis.  Medi-Cal
was enough of a joke, and now we have Pinhead Pete WIlson and Willie
Brown's Circus up in Sacto. making things much worse!
It looks like places such as County-USC Medical Center will have to
resort to cutbacks in personnel and services if the budget situation
does not get resolved within five days.  Some places, particularly
smaller facilities that depend heavily on Medi-Cal $$ may have to
close, thereby driving many people to the streets.
It's bad enough that George Dickmejian cut many services (e.g., mental
health care), we have Pinhead Pete unwilling to make a compromise with
the California Legislature at the expense of the people of the Golden
State!  And I won't even discuss Pete's raising of Cal State and
University of California fees (but if YOU want to, feel free!).  Fees
were bad enough at UC Riverside when I was there.  I can't imagine how
it is for any of you out there.

I just had to vent my spleen.  If anyone has comments, flames, etc. 
let me know.  If you want to, e-mail me, and let me know what you
think.

See you,
Ariel Vitali
Orange County Refugee
Cal-Riverside, '90
Dartmouth Medical School, '94
(ariel.a.vitali@dartmouth.edu)

"You can take those IOU's and shove them up your ass!" -  Me