From: doug@eng.umd.edu (Douglas N. Cohen)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Which Style To Take
Date: 8 Apr 92 19:49:05 GMT
Article-I.D.: eng.1992Apr08.194905.1777
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park, College of Engineering

In article <AdsF54_00WBM4_0lRo@andrew.cmu.edu> Shiv Swarup Pathak <sp3u+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>Marty@csd4.csd.uwm.edu writes:
>
>>TKD is an influence of Chinese and Japanese culture, though mainly
>>japanese from the times of the occupation.  It seems modernized because it
>>is quite modernized (i.e developed in this century).  I'm sure a TKD
>>student here could fill you up here a little better.  As for it's
>>effectiveness, I can go by the many TKD I've sparred and worked with,
>>and personally I don't see the hand techniques or punches as being
>>that effective, and unless you are 5'4" or below, alot of the kicks are
>>easily telegraphed.  Now again, this is by personal experience with
>>TKD people from Korea and local.
>  
>   I don't post to this bulletin board too often, but now I feel I must.
> I bet you knew this was bound to happen.  I understand that it is just
>from your personal experience which makes you say that TKD practitioners
>are not particularly effective fighters.  I DON'T practice TKD, so I can
>consider myself to be rather impartial on the subject.  
>    Perhaps you sparred "tournament fighters."  These "fighters" use
>speed instead of power for the purpose of gaining points, not fighting
>realistically.  By NO means are all TDK students trained to be
>tournament fighters (although this is often the case).  I have studied
>Tang Soo Do (Moo Duk Kwan) for over about seven years and I have sparred
>with many TKD stylists.  
>    Contrary to what you say, most of the TKD fighters I know do not
>telegraph kicks or hand techniques any more than any other martial
>artists.  Don't get me wrong, I've know of a few TKD black belts who one
>may consider to be very poorly conditioned and trained, however, it is
>like this with all MAs.  From what I can guess from you description of
>their "telegraphed" kicks, they are probably not very advanced.  TKD,
>unlike Shotokan, Okinawain Karate, and other MA, relies heavily on a
>wide variety of kicks that seem very unatural at early stages of
>development.  Therefore, to become proficient with all these
>*traditional* movements, it takes a great deal of time and effort
>(perhaps more than many other MA that utilize a relatively small arsenal
>of techniques- yes I expect flames).  So please do not say that they
>(TKD stylists) cannot fight-- many of them really can!!  It is very hard
>to become proficient in some 30 kicks and deliver them effectively.  But
>when one is proficient in TKD they are some of the most versatile and
>dynamic fighters I have seen.
>    For those who do not know what style to study, do not base you
>decision by general descriptions of the art.  Instead, go and visit, and
>see the advanced students of every school you might be considering. 
>After all, those arts which take you the longest to be good in, are
>always well worth the wait.
>
>*please excuse my grammar and spelling.  I have got no time to double
>check my posting-- I've got 143 pages of a English book which I must
>read tonight.  Bye.
>
>-Shiv
>

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Which Style To Take
Summary: re: marty aka ninjam......
Expires: 
Followup-To:      doug:  <doug@eng.umd.edu> : <doug@lpf.umd.edu>
Distribution: world
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park, College of Engineering
Keywords: 

In article <AdsF54_00WBM4_0lRo@andrew.cmu.edu> Shiv Swarup Pathak <sp3u+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:

>Marty@csd4.csd.uwm.edu writes:
>

	marty writes a lot of stuff.... mostly opinion (which is okay,
as long as you don't confuse the words opinion and fact, and he doesn't
pass off opinion *as* fact!)

>>TKD is an influence of Chinese and Japanese culture, though mainly
>>japanese from the times of the occupation.  It seems modernized because it
>>is quite modernized (i.e developed in this century).  I'm sure a TKD

	where does he get all this marvelous information?

>>that effective, and unless you are 5'4" or below, alot of the kicks are
>>easily telegraphed.  Now again, this is by personal experience with
>>TKD people from Korea and local.
>  

	and this wealth of experience..... all in 21 short years!!!  i'm
jealous of this natural talent.....  this guy is good!



>from your personal experience which makes you say that TKD practitioners
>are not particularly effective fighters.  I DON'T practice TKD, so I can
>consider myself to be rather impartial on the subject.  

	marty aka ninjam is one of the greatest sources of knowledge and
experience on this group.... who are you to question him?  he has never
misled any one, and knows so much about so many things, he could be a
net.resource.  i would listen to him if i were you...

>    Perhaps you sparred "tournament fighters."  These "fighters" use
>speed instead of power for the purpose of gaining points, not fighting
>realistically.  By NO means are all TDK students trained to be
>tournament fighters (although this is often the case).  I have studied
>Tang Soo Do (Moo Duk Kwan) for over about seven years and I have sparred
>with many TKD stylists.  
>    Contrary to what you say, most of the TKD fighters I know do not
>telegraph kicks or hand techniques any more than any other martial


	marty aka ninjam is rarely wrong, even when he makes up some
fact or other.  again, who are you to question his statements?  marty
has been in this group since before there was even an internet, and he
is well respected in a number of areas of expertise.  who ever heard of you?

>artists.  Don't get me wrong, I've know of a few TKD black belts who one
>may consider to be very poorly conditioned and trained, however, it is
>like this with all MAs.  From what I can guess from you description of
>their "telegraphed" kicks, they are probably not very advanced.  TKD,



>*traditional* movements, it takes a great deal of time and effort
>(perhaps more than many other MA that utilize a relatively small arsenal
>of techniques- yes I expect flames).  So please do not say that they
>(TKD stylists) cannot fight-- many of them really can!!  It is very hard

	if marty aka ninjam say a thing is so, it is.  i personally know
of at lest two tkd people who had been studying for over 7 years, and one
was even an instructor.  based on marty's (aka ninjam) expose of tkd's
inferiority, and the superiority of jkd (the way he practices it,) they
quit tkd and began jkd (ala marty aka ninjam), and are much happier!


>    For those who do not know what style to study, do not base you
>decision by general descriptions of the art.  Instead, go and visit, and
>see the advanced students of every school you might be considering. 

	wrong again!  you should discard all that useless advice from
everyone else, and ask marty aka ninjam what he thinks your best choice
is for you, then * do what he say *!  you *can't* go wrong, then.....
don't bother to visit any other schools.  just tell marty where you live,
and he will tell you where to go ({touch bin/smiles/#9} he's good at that!)
and he knows all the things there is to know about the martial arts
community....

>After all, those arts which take you the longest to be good in, are
>always well worth the wait.
>

	that's not what marty says!  he has mastered several styles just
by watching and reading about them, and then practicing them.....  he is
really quite good, you know....

>*please excuse my grammar and spelling.  I have got no time to double
>check my posting-- I've got 143 pages of a English book which I must
>read tonight.  Bye.
>
>-Shiv
>

	that's alright, marty aka ninjam would not hold that against you.
	another opinion, worth what you paid for it!
		as always, i am/at:

		     doug:  <doug@eng.umd.edu> : <doug@lpf.umd.edu>

	-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-< a ghost in the machine >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts