HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gupw@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Paul Wagland)
Subject: Re: The DM is Never Wrong (was: Re: Scribing from a Spell Book)
Keywords: DM technique
Organization: University of Western Australia
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 03:04:58 GMT

kjenks@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov writes:
>[...DM/player argument deleted...]
>I said to the player:
>>>You were right, and the DM was wrong.
>gupw@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Paul Wagland) replied:
>>The DM is _NEVER_ wrong. It is merely that he has a different
>>interpretation of the rules than the player. BTW have you never heard of
>>the Dungeon Masters *GUIDE*  [...yada, yada, yada...]

>I'm a DM.  I've been wrong in the past.  I'll be wrong in the future.  
>I always listen to players' questions and comments about the rules.

You can only be wrong if you are inconsistent. If you make a rule and
apply that rule consistently then how can that be wrong?

>Here, an Internaut asked The Net a question about his DM's ruling.
>The DM ruled arbitrarily, in a manner inconsistent with the rules,
>and in a manner which can only hurt player characters.  (You don't
>see NPC's having problems with copying spells, now do you?)  

The DM ruled in relation to his own campaign, in which the laws of the
universe are slightly different to the what the player was expecting,
that does not make them wrong.

>The DM is the referee in a very complex game.  There are hundreds of
>pages of rules, which are frequently internally inconsistent,
>especially if you're still playing by AD&D1 rules.  I know the (AD&D1)
>books as well as anybody, but I still get the rules wrong once in a
>while.

As I said before, (And should of made clear in my earlier posts as
well), the DM is only wrong if he is inconsistent with his rulings. Note
that if the NPC's are treated differently to the Players then that is
inconsistent, but they aren't (at least not in my campaign). My NPC's
don't have huge lists of spells, not every mage in town has exactly the
same spells.  But if you could copy spells from one spell book to
another, between users (which is how this thread started), then surely
this is what would happen.
	Granted the DM can make a slip and apply rules inconsistently,
though from the original post it sounded like it was a hard and fast
rule in that campaign, and as such can't be wrong.

>His DM was flat-out wrong.  If you truly feel that the DM is NEVER
>wrong, I really feel sorry for players in your dungeons.

Sorry, I should of made myself clearer ealier. The DM can make a
mistake, but if the DM makes a ruling, so long as it is consistent with
the game then it cannot be considered 'wrong'. You can doubt his
judgement, but you can't say he is wrong. BTW none of players have ever
complained about DM'ing, but if I make a rule I consider it's
implications first, to make sure it is logical. And if I apply a rule to
the players then I also apply the rule to the NPC's.

Paul
-- 
Paul Wagland            | These opinions are mine and no-one elses
gupw@uniwa.uwa.edu.au   | I still don't like Microsoft, even after using
------------------------+  their products. :-)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: silber@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Ami A. Silberman)
Subject: Re: Stoneskin and Haste Spells
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 22:02:32 GMT

sears@tree.egr.uh.edu (Paul S. Sears) writes:
>=>	Remember the Unearthed Arcana? The thing that all the people out
>=>there SCREAM is "munchkin bait from hell"?
>=>	That was where stoneskin originated. 
>=>	What's funny about it?
>=>	The UA version of Stoneskin protects you from *1* attack/attack
>=>sequence. That's it.

	Nope. It protected you from one *hit*. The new version protects
vs. attack/attack sequences. It's much more effective against single,
high level monsters, and probably less effective against swarms of low
level monsters. (I'm convinced from the internal evidence of the rules that
TSR thinks in terms of swarms of orcs.)
-- 
ami silberman - janitor of lunacy
	silber@cs.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: burdickd@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (Dakin Burdick)
Subject: Re: Secrets
Keywords: secret communication 
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 14:18:08 GMT

In article <23JUL199212121672@lims02.lerc.nasa.gov> spzkny@lims02.lerc.nasa.gov (JAMES ZAKANY) writes:
>
>>Is the campaign I am currently playing in unique, or do most games frequently
>>have flurries of notes flying back and forth among the players and DM?  There
>>are times when the DM can get almost nothing done due to the mass of paper
>>flying about.
>>Do other groups have better ways to handle private communications?
>
>Yea.  I discourage note-passing.  My players either get up and whisper to 
>me (they won't usually do this) or they'll speak up.  I simply warn the 
>others that they do NOT have that information!  

This is a lousy way to do it.  It ruins the suspense of what is going
on, etc.  Your players seem to be able to handle it, but that is to 
their credit, not yours.  A little pointless note passing can get some
really good paranoia going.  And the amount of note passing will
usually reduce after a few sessions.  If it doesn't you may be playing
with real jerks and need to find another group.  

>By the way, I DO get an occasional note and I DO send them, but no more 
>than one a session.  Perhaps a house rule of one note per player per 
>session would come in handy for you...

About every two or three hours, I'll dash off an empty note to each
player except the one getting the real message.  The others are told
to act mysterious, and so no-one knows if everyone got a blank page or
if something actually happened.  Sometimes I pass a single blank note
to a player, especially if the party is altogether too confident.

Dakin
burdickd@copper.ucs.indiana.edu
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology-Office of Information Technology
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 13:48:44 EDT
From: Paul Goodwin <CC100PG@GITVM1.GATECH.EDU>
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Too many notes! (Was Re: New uses of dices...)

Excellent question!  Please, does anyone have a better way to handle private
communication?

A second note:  In a campaign (which I'm DMing for) I have a thief who likes
to go on private intellegence-gathering missions, etc. and this can really
slow down the game flow.  Anyone have any ideas for how to avoid slowing
things down too much for the group in situations like this?

Paul
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: keary@apollo.HP.COM (Matt Keary)
Subject: Re: New uses of dices...
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 20:46:42 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Chelmsford, MA

We have a thief who often runs around invisibly, so it has been standard
practice for some time now to put his figurine on a die to denote this
status (anyone else, too, when they're invis)

- Mateo
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: Rannou@info.polymtl.ca (Patrick Rannou)
Subject: Re: Other uses for dicee
Organization: Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal, Canada
	<1992Jul23.012249.27938@nmsu.edu> <1992Jul23.031754.12227@unixg.ubc.ca>
	<1992Jul23.094642.19012@csuvax1.csu.murdoch.edu.au>
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 02:54:24 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.094642.19012@csuvax1.csu.murdoch.edu.au> torban@csuvax1.csu.murdoch.edu.au (Torban Bennett) writes:


      Anyway back to the point, speaking of humongous battles I was playing the 
   "Temple of Elemental Evil" a year or so back, and (I can't exactly remember how)
   we did something that causes all the remaining monsters from the four elemental
   levels, to be dumped (along with the party) on a huge plane.  Needless to
   say we didn't quite have enough dice !!!!
     So we cleared off the entire table and got out the complete stores of
   Lego (I have quite a collection from my younger days, as well as my sister's)
   We had heaps of Lego people (esp that Castles stuff) placed in clumps
   all over the table as well as countless other objects.  It was definately the
   largest battle I have ever had one of my characters involved in.(at least since
   the end of dungeon level 5.  Check this module out for a serious combat fest!!)

Hmmm, that makes me remember a SOLO I made to one of my players... he wasa
1st level priest, in a monastery. There was about 50 priests in that
monastery. Suddnely, the forces of evil start rolling down the mountains
(at night). 600 undeads, most of them skeletons and zombies.

Needless to say, I needed many "counters". So I used the one from the game
RISK, and the "map" was actually the floor. Needless to say, seeing all
these counters in a 4x4 foot area was somewhat breathtaking (when you tried
to picture what the PC was actually seeing from his PoV).

The fight lasted 3 hours, and there was still 300 zombies and 30 priests
up. Turning undeads has never been rolled as may times in all the rest of
my gaming life. We stopped to fight because it was too late, and we mnever
got the chance to finish it. I should have bought the battlesystem!

--
/---------------------------\
| Patrick "Paradak" Rannou. |
| Rannou@info.polymtl.ca    |
\---------------------------/
From: 10726446@eng2.eng.monash.edu.au (LAU WAI KUEN)
Subject: Re: Stoneskin: A new(?) idea
Organization: Faculty of Engineering, Monash University 
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 06:42:49 GMT

In article <63848@hydra.gatech.EDU> ccoprmd@prism.gatech.EDU (Matthew DeLuca) writes:
>From: ccoprmd@prism.gatech.EDU (Matthew DeLuca)
>Subject: Re: Stoneskin: A new(?) idea
>Date: 20 Jul 92 11:44:34 GMT

>In article <63770@hydra.gatech.EDU> ccoprdj@prism.gatech.EDU (Jorge Diaz) writes:

>>Why not require that the subject of the spell make a system shock check
>>when the spell is first cast (when his skin is turning into stone), and
>>then another when the spell is negated (when his skin returns to normal)?

>>As an example, a mage with a Constitution of 11 (average) has an 80%
>>chance of surviving a system shock.  That means that he has a 36% chance
>>of dying if he casts the spell on himself.

>>Opinions?

>Yes...pretty damn brutal, if you ask me.  I would think that the risk of 
>casting a protective spell should be *less* than the risk of not casting it. :-)

>I really don't see any problem with the spell, if used in a reasonable manner.
>If the mage starts to abuse it, just have a Tasmanian Devil with 97 attacks
>per round come up and bang on the character's head.
>-- 
>Matthew DeLuca                      "I'd hire the Dorsai, if I knew their 
>Georgia Institute of Technology      P.O. box."
>Office of Information Technology                - Zebediah Carter, 
>Internet: ccoprmd@prism.gatech.edu              _The Number of the Beast_

    Why not just state that anyone with stone skin cast on him has a chance 
of certain- how shall we say- important body parts snapping off. :)
I can't think of a less popular spell then.

Hal
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: sevans@andy.bgsu.edu (Stephen W. Evans)
Subject: Re: Stoneskin revisited
Organization: Bowling Green State University B.G., Oh.
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 21:48:43 GMT

> 
> Probably the best solution is to either make it protect against *one* attack, 
> or make it affect only the caster.  This is a good idea, but on thinking 
> about it, it defeats the purpose of having a mage in the party to begin with.


What! Do you think the only purpose of the mage is to use his spells to
protect the party!  Thats mostly the job of the Cleric!  The mages job is
to provide firepower and to solve problems through alteration of the 
environment.  If a fight won't go into combat until the mage "protects" him
with a stoneskin spell then he probably isn't a very effective fighter
anyway.
I can see SOME special situations where a mage might want to protect a
particular party member other than himself (mine puts one on the parties
only cleric), but for the most part fighters tend to get hit too often
for the stoneskin to be a wise investment of a fourth level spell.
-Steve

Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: cstudly@athena.mit.edu (Todd Sterling Anderson)
Subject: CHARACTERS WANTED
Keywords: 
	One of the most challenging and time consuming processes of creating
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 04:23:37 GMT

an adventure is developing full-bodied NPC's.  I was wondering if anyone
out there has characters on their computer that they would be willing
to send me. It doesn't have to be in any particular format, and I would
love to have a character history if you have one.  Send one, send many,
send often.  It would be nice to have a larger pool of NPC's to choose
from.

Thanks alot,

todd anderson

PS.  I do know about the trading cards, but I am more curious about what
non T$R guys can do.
From: jzku_ss@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Joeski)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: When players and characters experience doesn't match.
Summary: Quick story from a AD&D campaign
Keywords: funny,story
Date: 23 Jul 92 13:21:20 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester - Rochester, New York

Had a pretty amusing experience last night that I though I'd share with
the net.  One of my housemates decided to start up a campaign last
week, and adventuring has become our normal after dinner activity.  Since
this was a brand new campaign, we all agreed to have 1st level characters.
The party includes a dwarven fighter, a human ranger, a elven magic-user,
and a human cleric.

While exploring a recently discovered dungeon, we came across a "pool of
stagnent water" (no one ever runs across those :-) which covered the floor
and impeded our further advancement.  So we poked around in it and were
greeted by a rather large green lump, which promptly started to attack.

This is where we got confused.  The player playing the ranger says,"hmmm,
do I know what this is?" Knowing wery well that he does.  (I can't 
remember the name of it right now, but it corrodes metal for lunch, 
including weapons) I'm thinking the same thing as the ranger, then we
both realized that we were 1st level, so we shrugged and went after it
swinging, fully expecting our weapons to be bye-bye in a moment or two.

As it turns out, for another twist, we both hit, killing the thing (we 
rolled max. damage each) and then both our weapons saved.  The DM
smiled, looked at us, and said "Now remember, you still have no idea what
this thing is," and he added sarcastically "Do you."  We both grunted
and smiled, knowing we were lucky to both be swinging steel still.

Anyone else got a similar experience? Where players' experience almost
got in the way of their characters?

Joe Kurlanski
jzku_ss@uhura.cc.rochester.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: stehman@hubcap.clemson.edu (Jeff Stehman)
Subject: Best DM moves (Was: Stupid PC Tricks)
Organization: Clemson University
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 23:54:37 GMT


So there's this near-name-level party getting their clocks cleaned by some
rabid hedgehogs (hey, these were *really* mean rabid hedgehogs -- hedgehogs
from hell, as it were).  In desperation the neutral magic-user, who was as
close to evil as anyone in the party got, whipped out a recently aquired
magic item and summoned up a type something or another demon (the tall,
skinny ones).  Well, the demon receives his orders, looks the situation
over, and snatches up one of the hedgehogs.  Across the room is a paladin
with a hedgehog firmly attached to the small of is back.  The wind...
the pitch...  He threw the hedgehog, hitting the second hedgehog with
enough force to blow both of them through the paladin, killing all three.

Acts of genuis were not that common with this dm.  That was one of the best
I have ever seen.


						Jeff Stehman
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: CHARACTERS WANTED
From: <MJKWIAT@MIAMIU.BITNET>
Date: Sunday, 26 Jul 1992 22:22:25 EDT
Distribution: na
Organization: Miami University - Academic Computer Service

What about setting it up at an anonymous ftp site?
 
Mike Kwiatkowski
From: jwolf@nyx.cs.du.edu (The WolF)
Subject: AD&D2 Trivia Game
Summary: Looking to start a game 
Keywords: Trivia, AD&D-2, Official Rules 
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix @ U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 16:08:04 GMT

I recently purchased the AD&D trivia game.  While the game itself was
inexcusable, the questions were/are a nasty test of our AD&D Rules Lawyer
abilities  :)

So, I thought, the folks on Nyx might enjoy a game (PBEM, aux naturelment!)
If any of you are interested, lemme know.  I'll probably do the questions on
a weekly basis (bi-weekly if everyone screams loud enough, coupled with
generous donations to the "JWOLF needs this Money More Than I Do Foundation,
JWolF president/founder").  :}

Jon WolF - Voulez-vous vos argent? 
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: wcalderw@nmsu.edu (William A. Calderwood)
Subject: Re: Number of Dice
Organization: NMSU Computer Science
	<marrou.711751487@eola.cs.ucf.edu>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 01:22:49 GMT

Did ya ever notice how dice make great tops especially the 4 sided
ones.

Bill,
wcalderw@nmsu.edu
From: dcarroll@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu (Dana Carroll)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Best possible AC
Date: 28 Jul 92 20:34:39 GMT
Organization: Ohio University C.S. Dept, Athens

Here's a little puzzle to enrich your day:

What is the best possible AC for the four basic character classes (Fighter,
MU, Thief, Cleric) in the two editions of AD&D?

The answers should use only natural dexterity (for any race), armor allowed
for that class, spells that specifically apply to AC (i.e., no wish spells),
items usable by that class that specifically apply to AC (again, no rings
of wishes).  Basically, no "trick" answers.

Then again, maybe trick answers should be allowed in a separate category.

Also, what is the maximum AC you have personally seen in a real gaming session?
I personally have run across an AC of -22, but that wasn't in a player 
character.  (It was a Thri-kreen with some specialized items.)

--Darrend the Saint, Town-Saver, Bringer of Justice
From: weeks@astroatc.UUCP (Pat Weeks)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Items vs. Specialist's opposing sphere
Date: 30 Jul 92 17:14:03 GMT
Reply-To: weeks%astroatc.UUCP@spool.cs.wisc.edu (Patrick Weeks)
Organization: Astronautics Technology Cntr, Madison, WI


	I posted this a while ago, but I don't think it ever made it.

	I was wondering about the restriction of using items that replicated
spells in an opposing sphere of a mage.   EG.   A Necromancer can use eyes of
charming because they are not allowed access to the Enchantment/charm school.
It seems to me that's why they would want items like that.  To make up for
their inability to cast spells from that area.  What are your comments?



						Ghostwheel Speaks...


Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: lum@cs.tu-berlin.de (Lutz Hofmann)
Subject: Re: New uses of dices...
Organization: Technical University of Berlin, Germany
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 14:02:49 GMT

In article <Brt5pw.L0s@apollo.hp.com> keary@apollo.HP.COM (Matt Keary) writes:
>We have a thief who often runs around invisibly, so it has been standard
>practice for some time now to put his figurine on a die to denote this
>status (anyone else, too, when they're invis)

We remove the miniature from the table to simulate the invisible state
of the character. The GM knows where the PC is, because the player
send a small note.

Yours    Sincerely  Lutz Hofmann
                    lum@cs.tu-berlin.de

-- 
Ob. Disc: Dies ist kein Flame.
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: walrus@wam.umd.edu (Udo K Schuermann)
Subject: Re: Castles - Prices
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 20:03:08 GMT

In article <1992Jul29.174718.10034@unixg.ubc.ca> pbreland@unixg.ubc.ca (Paul B Breland) writes:
>In article <51300004@ax.apc.org> kiko@ax.apc.org writes:
>>Does anybody know the prices, or where to gather this information, about 
>>castle constructions??
> 
>There are 2 books that I know of with prices in it.
>
>2.  The Castle Guide (a v2 supplement).  I recommend this book if you can
>    get it because it not only provides prices but also the amount of 
>    work to construct it in man-hours.  It also has modifiers for terrain
>...
>
>I have designed 2 castles using the book and I have found the system to
>work quite although it takes quite a bit of time.
>One of the castles cost 1,300,000gp!

King Ludwig II.  "Faery Castle" Neuschwanstein in Bavaria was constructed
about 130 years ago in the style of 12th and 13th century castles.  It then
cost 6.5 million gold marks to build and was not even finished after the
king was declared incompetent and disowned (he later died in a lake under
mysterious circumstances.)  The interior of the castle is lavish to an
extreme, which significantly contributed to the price of construction, of
course.
	If anyone has any sort of historical information as to the buying
power of a gold mark around 1865, I'd appreciate hearing from you!  Any
sort of comparison to trade goods would be especially valuable.

 ._.  Udo Schuermann     "If I went around calling myself emperor just because
 ( )  walrus@wam.umd.edu  some moistened bint lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd
 Seeking virtual memory   put me away!"         -- Monty Python's "Holy Grail"
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: daniel@moonshine.osf.org (Daniel Dardailler)
Subject: Player page
Organization: Open Software Foundation, Motif Team
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 14:46:50 GMT


Hi, I'm looking for a printable (PostScript, Frame, Troff, anything that
can be sent to me by email) player page template, including
all characteristic fields to be filled by new characters.

Something along the lines of the following, but using a nicer output format:

NAME :

RACE :                     SEX   :  
CLASS:                     AGE   :  
LEVEL:                     HEIGHT: 
ALIGN:                     WEIGHT:  

STR:      DEX:     INT:     WIS:     CON:      CHA:       PER:      

HP   :  
AC   :  
THAC0:  
GOLD :  

EQUIPMENT:        SKILLS:     ABILITIES:


Please send me what you have by mail, I'm not reading this group
on a regular basis.

Thanks a billion.


Daniel
From: ccoprdj@prism.gatech.EDU (Jorge Diaz)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Too many notes! (Was Re: New uses of dices...)
Date: 27 Jul 92 01:15:45 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

In article <1992Jul26.023323.18987@technix.mn.org> bret@technix.mn.org (Bret Indrelee) writes:

>Tell me, do you have trouble attracting thieves to your campaign, Jorge?

I'm a player, not a DM.  Actually, there are two reasons I posted the
response I did.

>Give the thief his chance in the spotlight.  He will never cast a spell
>and wipe out 20 orcs.  He will never last in individual combat against
>an equivilent fighter, and usually can't stand a chance against a cleric.
>About all the thief can do is be sneaky.  He is O.K. at that, but you
>have to give him a chance to do it.  When it becomes a problem, then
>start hinting to the player that it might be a good idea to have backup.

True, however, I also think it's pretty unbelievable that a 1st level
thief sneaking around at night is *not* going to get into trouble if
he does it night after night.  I mean, odds are pretty good that something
is to happen to him.  Many medium to large towns have a thieves' guild
in them who probably wouldn't want a non-guild thief running around,
causing all sorts of trouble:  That's *their* job! :-)

>If the player is reasonable, and you give him a couple of chances to
>show off his own abilities, you can probably work out a reasonable
>solution.  Talk to the player first.

The other reason I suggested it is because I'm in Paul's campaign,
and I know the thief, and I think we all get pretty sick of him wasting
time every session with his midnight raids.  Just once, I'd like to
see him get caught. :-)


-- 
Jorge Diaz                       | "You're outmanned, you're outgunned, you're
Georgia Institute of Technology  |      outequipped what else have you got?"
Office of Information Technology | "Guile."
ccoprdj@prism.gatech.edu         |      -- Riker and Worf   "Peak Performance"
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd