HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: GC.SUL@forsythe.stanford.edu (Sullivan)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: Rowing: Concept-II Ergometer
Date: 12 Nov 1992 06:56:45 -0800
Organization: Stanford University
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: morrow.stanford.edu

In article <1992Nov11.154254.10074@vax.oxford.ac.uk>,
jeremy@vax.oxford.ac.uk (Jeremy Martin) writes:
>The Concept 2 Ergometer is widely used all over the world. It is clearly an
>excellent fitness machine. But how closely does it replicate the feel of
>rowing. I have found that there are some very good boat movers who are poor on

It doesn't.  The  'Lyons-Gamut' erg or the old Aussie model was
far better for it as it had an oar handle that swept across an arc
plus you weren't holding the handle up as you do the Concept II.
Some ergs could be quite helpful for hands on coaching of certain
body mechanics of the drive (especially when rowing hard) and you
could even solve some of the more severe slide control problems.  I
found though that every concept learned and understood on even the
best erg had to be re-learned on the water.  Those old beasts were
roughly 5 times the cost of Concept when it came out.

In short, it is a wonderful tool, a great source of aerobic training
but falls way short if used for other things.

Mike
From: jhgillespie@ucdavis.edu (John Gillespie)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: Rowing Machines
Date: 13 Nov 92 15:36:15 GMT
Article-I.D.: josquin.jhgillespie-131192073658
Followup-To: rec.boats.paddle
Organization: Center for Population Biology, UCD

In article <lg2olfINN7ts@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>, tut@cairo.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill
"Bill" Tuthill) wrote:
> 
> Before we split this group into flatwater rowing (i.e. crew) and
> everything else, I have a question for the crew contingent.
> 
> So what's the deal, do I have a lousy rowing machine, or what?

Speaking of rowing machines, the best, by far, is the Concept II
Ergometer.  It uses a flywheel to simulate the inertia present
in 'real' rowing.  This is a thinly disquised plug because I
am trying to sell mine.  It's like new and I'm asking $600 OBO
from someone in the Bay area (too big to ship).  (It turns out that bad
knees
--5 years in a C-1 and two operations--and rowing machines don't mix,
sigh).

Give me a call if you are interested (916) 752-6018 (w) (916) 756-2116 (h)

John
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: EPLUS17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu (Richard Engelbrecht-Wiggans)
Subject: Re: how to row
Organization: C.C.S.O.
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 05:27:13 GMT

In article <11880008@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM>
bsmith@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Brian Smith) writes:
 
>In rec.boats.paddle, GC.SUL@forsythe.stanford.edu (Sullivan) writes:
>
>    The purpose of this article is to reach a couple of you loners out
>    there who may be trying to learn to row in a vacuum.  My approach is
>                                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>Wow! I knew you guys were smart at Stanford, but that beats
>everything.
>
>Sorry.  I wandered over here from rec.boats, and just couldn't resist.
>
>B.S!
 
I know that the kayakers claim it is easy to row a straight path.  But
I would truely be impressed by a single rower doing so.
 
..Richard E+17
 
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: gumby@spock.uucp (Danny Richman)
Subject: New newsgroup
Organization: Choate Rosemary Hall
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 21:25:24 GMT

     It seems by popular demand that a new newsgroup is needed:
rec.boats.paddle has recently been flooded with complaints of new articles
that deal generally with crew.  It appears that rowers do not get along
too well with kayakers or rafters.
     It would be in the best interest to start the creation of rec.boats.crew
and begin the discussion from here on out.I hope that everyone will take part
in this discussion which will soon lead into the deciding vote.  With 
everyone's cooperation, we can make this transition as clean and smooth as 
possible.

I have also posted another copy of this to news.annouce.newgroups,
and you should (I think) also post responses to there.
-- 
                                             gumby@choate.edu
Organization: University of Maine System
Date: Thursday, 12 Nov 1992 15:34:10 EST
From: <KLEBAN@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: hawaii

We were on Maui about two years ago.  Yes there is hang gliding, but I know
nothing further on that.  There is certainly kayaking, mainly or exclusively
in the ocean.  There are no rivers, the islands are too small, but there are
some streams.  Maybe white water kayaking is possible in a few places, I never
inquired.  On Maui you could rent sea kayaks or even take lessons (for some
exorbitant price--everything is steep over there--it's called the "paradise
tax"). I don't remember the co. name, but just ask around.  Anyway, the water
is quite warm of course, but it can get windy fast & keep an eye out for waves.
In some places relatively short inter-island trips are possible (Lahaina to
Molokai, I believe), but be sure you're well equipped for that kind of thing.
If you miss the next island it's a loooong way to land!  Anyway have fun...
If you're into windsurfing there's plenty of that too.

Peter Kleban.
From: lib@cbnews.cb.att.com (Lib)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: Rowing (was: QUESTION ABOUT A NEW POSTING BOARD)
Date: 6 Nov 92 16:57:20 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbnews.1992Nov6.165720.27845
Distribution: na
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Nov2.173750.49819@ccvax.ucd.ie>, wboatclb@ccvax.ucd.ie writes:
>  In article <100255@bu.edu>, afinch@bu.edu (Andrew Finch) writes:
>> 
>>   DOES ANYONE THINK THERE IS A DEMAND FOR A BOARD ABOUT ROWING (CREW)?  
>   
>  From what I've seen there is no demand for a newsgroup (board) about
>  rowing. Maybe if we started a discussion...........................
>  ...............we might be able to draw all the rowers, scullers and 
>  coxes out of their closets contribute to this newsgroup. BTW I'm in
>  the rowing camp.        
  
Personally I'd love to see a rowing board but from the volume of crew
traffic I see on this board can't say it's justified.
    
At any rate now that winter's here in the Northeast (well, cold weather,
winter's here everywhere) and I'm back on the erg would anyone care
to suggest some novel (or not so novel) erg workouts I can do to while
away the long winter. Also any suggestions on where to buy rowing clothing,
especially if you'd like to suggest some place that caters to women,
but any place you'd like to recommend would be nice. Thanks.
From: tut@cairo.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill "Bill" Tuthill)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Rowing Machines
Date: 11 Nov 1992 19:44:47 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: cairo

Before we split this group into flatwater rowing (i.e. crew) and
everything else, I have a question for the crew contingent.

About five years ago I bought a middle-of-the-line rowing machine.
It doesn't have LED readouts or anything, but it does have a nice
seat and shock-absorber type struts, adjustable from easy to hard.
The trouble is, I can't get a good workout on the thing.  When the
shock-absorbers are on the easy setting, I never get out of breath.
When they are on the hard setting, I do get out of breath, but my
shoulder sockets feel like they're ready to separate.  The machine
is now gathering dust in our garage, since I've found that my wife's
Jane Fonda exercise tapes are a much better way to stay in shape.

So what's the deal, do I have a lousy rowing machine, or what?  Is
rowing inherently not great exercise?  I have noted that when our
boating season begins (February) I am not in great shape for three
kinds of activities: kayaking, paddle guiding, and carrying heavy
boats downhill for 2 miles.  Rowing is the only whitewater activity
that doesn't make me sore the first time out.

From: bsmith@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Brian Smith)
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 00:20:52 GMT
Subject: Re: how to row
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Loveland, CO
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle

In rec.boats.paddle, GC.SUL@forsythe.stanford.edu (Sullivan) writes:

    The purpose of this article is to reach a couple of you loners out
    there who may be trying to learn to row in a vacuum.  My approach is
                                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Wow! I knew you guys were smart at Stanford, but that beats
everything.

Sorry.  I wandered over here from rec.boats, and just couldn't resist.

B.S!
From: billf@hpcvra.cv.hp.com (Bill Faus)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Reverse Screw Roll?
Date: 6 Nov 92 16:44:08 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Corvallis, OR, USA

I need some help in doing a reverse screw roll and
no one locally seems to know how.  I followed
the directions in Derek Hutchinson's book for
the extended reverse (Steyr) roll and this
works ok.  But how in heck do you do the
short reverse?  Every time I try the reverse
sweep with my left blade, the right blade 
bangs into the hull.  Seems like you'd
have to hold the right blade about a foot 
out of the water in order to clear the 
hull as illustrated in the book.

Any experts out there with some tips?

-bill
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: sbranch@well.sf.ca.us (Kim Clancy)
Subject: river rescure
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 14:36:14 GMT


the person that emailed me with the excellent advice on getting out of
the broche, could you please resend the  information and any more,
my system took major dive while I was reading it and I lost it...
I would greatly appreciate it...
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: asweatma@crc.ac.uk (A.K. Sweatman)
Subject: Re: Rowing: Big Blades
Organization: MRC Human Genome Resource Centre
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 16:08:59 GMT

In article <1dts05INNhg1@morrow.stanford.edu>, GC.SUL@forsythe.stanford.edu (Sullivan) writes:
> In article <1992Nov11.153132.10073@vax.oxford.ac.uk>,
> jeremy@vax.oxford.ac.uk (Jeremy Martin) writes:
> >I have yet to try the Dreissigacker Big Blades that were so popular in the
> >Olympics. Now my club has some money to spend and if it is true that they give
> >you a 3% speed advantage, as claimed by the company, we really ought to think
> >about buying some. Are they just a fad or is there a real performance gain?
> >I have heard that they can make you go slower into a headwind, because of the
> >increased blade area.
> 
> Yes they are a fad, but they are more mechanically effective than
> the old ones.  The advantage is gained at the catch.  Coaches and
> rowers I've talked to claim that 'slippage' at the catch and boat
> check is far less with the new blades.  Sorry, I don't yet have
> personal experience as I'm only a rec rower anymore.
> 
> The howling on the US collegiate scene when these blades first
> started to show up in the races this last spring was hilarious.
> There were incidences where one team would show up to a dual race
> with the new blades, and the other team's coach would refuse to
> race them....  good stuff.
> 
> Mike


With 'normal' blades, slippage occurs throughout the stroke. The stroke is 
most effective if the blade remains stationary with respect to the water
throughout the pulling phase of the stroke. With the old style blades
this is not the case, the blade actually moves through the water towards
the stern, this is slippage. With the new big blades this is supposed to 
happen less because the blade area is bigger so 'holds' more water
and has greater inertia, meaning that the boat is levered past the blade
more effectively, rather than the blade moving water
In other respects there is supposed to be very little difference between
the two types and how much difference thi 'slippage' effect has is not
known
Angela

Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: susswein@anrchy.cxo.dec.com (Steve Susswein)
Subject: Re: Middle Fk Salmon question
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation, Colorado Springs, Co
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 17:19:34 GMT


The regulations I saw dealt with the fact that landfills were no longer
accepting plastic-bagged human feces, and the shit had to be disposed of
in some sort of septic system.  The grand canyon is going to similar
regulations next year (per the ranger at Lee's ferry).

I think the idea is to use some sort of system with a holding tank that
can be dumped into a septic system.

Steve

From: bsmith@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Brian Smith)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 20:19:17 GMT
Subject: Re: Yes, do it, PLEASE!!!
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Loveland, CO
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle

In rec.boats.paddle, sdh4@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (SCOTT DYLAN HARDING) writes:

      Maybe I have become spoiled but ever since I started using this posting
      group, it has been devoted almost entirely to canoeing and kayaking.  Now
      I have to look through all this crew stuff to find a blurb about paddling.
       I know the official designation is for boats with paddles, oars, etc. but
       another posting group for crew activities would be welcomed by me.
       Whitewater paddlers are in a different league than flatwater
       paddlers/rowers and a separate group seems appropriate.

You should consider yourself lucky.  With 19 topics this month, this
is one of the smaller, regularly-used groups.  If you want to see
"looking through all that stuff to find....." you should try
rec.motorcycles sometime (wear your asbestos shorts, those guys think
they are the only people worth knowing in the whole universe--maybe
they are).

B.S! (Pas de l'yeux eau ne que nous)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: sbranch@well.sf.ca.us (Kim Clancy)
Subject: Re: river rescur
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 00:54:49 GMT


I could really care less about the paddle, didn't like it anyway, it was
too short.  What bothered me more than anything was that *I* didn't know
to get myself out of the situation.  All I could think was lean downstream
and keep the boat from flipping.  Ihad my paddled in the pour over below me
trying to keep the boat tilted downstream....talk about being sore the next
day....I have a brand new (paddled it twice) Corisca S proline, it has a
safety look on the front and the back, that is what I attached the
rope to.  I really like that boat, I was concerned about it folding in 1/2
but know it some pretty good support in it.  We have already arranged a
rescur class for the summer, suppose to be excellent and I will feel better
about paddling
From: garnham@convex.csd.uwm.edu (David C Garnham)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: which canoe to buy?
Date: 11 Nov 1992 04:42:34 GMT
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.30
Originator: garnham@convex.csd.uwm.edu

I'm looking for a canoe to use tandem and solo on a lake 2.5
miles by 1 mile.  I'll keep the canoe on the shore, so I'd like
a craft that can be carried a short distance by one person and
will require minimal care when left in the open.  I won't be
paddling more than 5 miles, or carrying any gear, but I'd like
something reasonably efficient.

Two options have been recommended.  One is a Royalex canoe, e.g.,
the Old Town Penobscot 16.  The other opinion is that stored as I
plan nothing beats aluminum, e.g., the 17 foot Grumman (possibly
the lightweight version).  

Should I save money and upkeep with the Grumman, or is there a
tradeoff here?  Are there other possibilities?  Thanks for your
assistance. 
-- 
| David Garnham                Internet: garnham@convex.csd.uwm.edu          |
| Political Science Dept.      Bitnet  : garnham%convex.csd.uwm.edu@INTERBIT |
| University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee      (414) 229-4392/4221                 |
| P.O. Box 413, Milwaukee, WI 53201 U.S.A.                                   |
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: sbranch@well.sf.ca.us (Kim Clancy)
Subject: river rescur
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 04:18:01 GMT


I was paddling the llop on the Yough Saturday and ended up broached on 2
rocks.  I had to grab a rescue rope and attach it to my safety rings to get
out of the broach.  I was stuck for about 5 minutes and wasn't sure what
I was suppose to do.  Is it possible to self rescue in a situation like that?
The folks with me were upset too because they weren't sure how to rescue or
what to do.  Anyone know?
From: smay@boi.hp.com (Scott Smay)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: Ergometer Training
Date: 9 Nov 92 15:39:35 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Hewlett-Packard / Boise, Idaho
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

Danny Richman (gumby@spock.uucp) wrote:
: 
: Always use large gear

WHY? And by large gear, do you mean the large or small sprocket?

: 
: 26  strokes per minute---damper open
: 30+ strokes per minute---damper closed

WHY?

: 
: If you have any other questions, feel free to e-mail me.
:

I started using a Concept II ergometer last winter as a warmup for weights 
and a poor weather running replacement. I always used the small sprocket with
vents open, 26-32 spm. I usually tried to row in 10-20 minute sets for 30-60 min
total. I found it to be a great workout.  
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: younger@stsci.edu
Subject: Re: Crew
Organization: Space Telescope Science Institute
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 19:12:28 GMT

In article <1992Nov8.185929.18647@spock.UUCP>, gumby@spock.uucp (Danny Richman) writes:
> 
> I think that it would be a great idea to start a crew newsgroup.
> I am sure that there are many interested rowers out there who would
> be willing to subscribe.  You never can tell unless you try!!!
> 
> I also have a question.  I was wondering if anyone has recently
> seen any proof from either a recent study, or can tell from a their
> own experience if hatchet blades are actually better than standard
> blades.  I am planning on buying a new pair of sculling oars, and
> cannot decide between the two.  Thanks in advance.
> 
>                                 -Dan
> 
    I've been rowing for about eight years and recently purchased a pair 
  of ultra-light hatchet sculling oars this past June and
  have used them under a variety of conditions in the Baltimore harbor.
  I can't say that they are "better" (whatever that means...I guess for
  some people it would mean faster), but I find that the catch is a bit
  "crisper" and the extraction of the blade from the water at the end
  of the drive is cleaner than with my standard blades.  I would say that
  if the conditions are fairly rough, I prefer to use a standard set of
  stampfi wooden oars---but that's just a personal preference, probably
  having more to do with the relative weights of the oars.  On the whole, I
  prefer the hatchets.
    By the way, most (if not all) of the eastern college crews switched
  to the hatchet sweep blades this past rowing season.  Are there any
  college crews that still prefer to use the standard blades?  
  Scullers, being a bit more resistant to change, have not been won over.
  The sentiment seems to be that more experienced (and presumably more
  techniquely accomplished) rowers do not experience much improvement
  in performance when switching to the hatchets.  Only time will tell
  I suppose.  
    As an added note, all of the winning men's olympic sculling boats
  (1X, 2X and 4X) were using the hatchets whereas the women's winning
  sculling crews were using standard blades.  I recently watched a video tape
  of the the men's 1X olympic final and still can't get over how relaxed 
  Thomas Lange looked during the race.  And no backsplash!

                                   jwy
  
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: donahue@athena.cs.uga.edu (Barbara Donahue)
Subject: Re: Crew
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 23:12:53 GMT

In article <1992Nov8.185929.18647@spock.UUCP> gumby@spock.uucp (Danny Richman) writes:
>I also have a question.  I was wondering if anyone has recently
>seen any proof from either a recent study, or can tell from a their
>own experience if hatchet blades are actually better than standard
>blades.        -Dan
>

	This is actually what I am thinking of studying...whatcha think?

			Barb 
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: lib@cbnews.cb.att.com (Lib)
Subject: Re: Rowing
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 13:07:08 GMT

In article <100944@bu.edu> afinch@bu.edu (Andrew Finch) writes:
>
> 
>	I find that the small wheel with vents closed is best.
>	But, if you are into pain, I suggest small whell with
>	vent open, 5000m. at a 30 strok rating.  Make sure
>	you have the ambulance on the way!

I've been doing small wheel with vents open for some time
and seem to think it works the muscles more than the lungs.
It's a good workout for that purpose for sure.
  
I tried big wheel vents 3/4 closed on Friday and kind of liked
it but couldn't seem to get my 500 speed down under 1:50 which
might be OK. I felt more winded than tired in the body after
twenty or so 250 meter pieces.
  
I'll try small wheel vents closed.

Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: donahue@athena.cs.uga.edu (Barbara Donahue)
Subject: Re: Rowing
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 23:19:58 GMT

In article <1dm74kINNh27@rave.larc.nasa.gov> ghee@vision.larc.nasa.gov (Terry A. Ghee) writes:
>Just for grins & giggles, how much does a concept II cost?
>
>Thanks, 
>Terry

	Funny you should ask...I just received in the mail the Concept II
	brochure.  They are priced at $700 each...of course if you want
	to buy 5 or more they give a discount so they are only $650 a piece
	=) =)  They are also marketing a gadget that looks like a computer
	terminal on top of the erg that shows your stats as well as a 
	race situation if you happen to have more than one erg doing a 
	workout.     
				Barb
From: gdw@moose.cccs.umn.edu
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Midwest Mountaineering Canoe Event is April 23-24-25 1993
Date: 12 Nov 92 18:49:29 GMT
Article-I.D.: news2.1992Nov12.184929.16544
Reply-To: gdw@moose.cccs.umn.edu ()
Organization: Colon Cancer Control Study, University of Minnesota, Minneapolis


Hi all,

Someone recently posted the 'first canoe' question so I thought I'd post this.
The water is starting to firm up around here so it's time to plan for spring.

The Midwest Mountaineering Canoe Event is April 23-24-25 1993.
They have all sorts of canoes and kayaks at auction on Saturday the 24th
usually starts ~10AM.  The auction is great fun usually ~200 boats of all 
sorts -- no super bargains but good prices on used boats.
For some reason the weather is always dreadful that weekend so it works
out great to be inside.
They also have manufactures reps/displays from boats, paddles, camping gear,
outfitters, clothes, sale items etc. 
Also exhibits and films and the usual trade show stuff.
Midwest Mountaineering (I am not affiliated) is a large local purveyor
of outdoor stuff like REI or EMS.  
Midwest Mountaineering
309 Cedar Ave South
Minneapolis, MN  55454
(612)339-3433 
-- Gavin 921112.1235CST
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle