From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Molesters vs Molestation (WAS Re: Against Our Will)
Date: 30 Jul 92 17:46:42 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <92304@bu.edu>, kane@buast7.bu.edu (Hot Young Star) writes:
> In article <92240@bu.edu> I was arguing with Clayton about the implications
# of child molestation studies he had referred to:
# 
# #[Janet Hyde] said 20% of the molestations (note: NOT molesters, but
# #MOLESTATIONS) were committed by men on boys. She implied nothing about
# #those men's sexual orientation to adults.
# #
# #Comprehend the difference?
# 
# I found a California sex offenders survey by Frisbie and Dondis (1965,
# "Recidivism Among Treated Sex Offenders") which echoes this. Before they
# get to the issue of recidivism, they present an overview of molestation:
# 
# Their sample is 1509 adult male patients, of whom 68% had been convicted of
# abuse of girls, 28% of abuse of boys, and 4% of abuse of both boys and girls.
# All were incarcerated for treatment.
# 
# Frisbie and Dondis treat homosexuality as a completely different disorder
# [let's leave aside their assumptions about how society should deal with
# homosexuals, they're not too kind] where homosexuality is defined as occurring
# only between adult males over the age of 18. They have a separate sample of 19
# homosexuals punished for homosexual acts with adults (note the much smaller
# incidence, 19 compared to 427 for boy-molesters).
# 
# Even studies extremely inolerant of homosexuality among consenting adults
# assume that it involves a completely different dynamic than men who molest
# boys.

I don't dispute the dynamic is different.  It involves power and
control over a child.  Much like the S&M crowd in the gay community.

# #You are persistently misunderstanding my point. If men who molest boys
# #do so at a rate about ***12*** times that of men who molest girls [Abel
# #and Harlow] (which by the way I believe), then those men make up a much
# #smaller fraction of molesters than the girl-molesters, because they
# #INDIVIDUALLY do a lot more damage. If we are to believe Hyde, 20% of the
# #molestations involve boys. In the large sample of Abel and Harlow, 67000,
# #this would mean about 13400 incidents. Now, since boy-molesters apparently
# #have a large average number of victims, 282, then the average number of
# #boy-molesters in the sample would be 13400 divided by 282, which is 48.
# 
# Frisbie and Dondis also find that boy-molesters have a signficantly greater
# average number of victims than girl-molesters. But they don't conclude that
# the boy molesters are homosexuals.

That's right, men have sex with boys, but aren't homosexuals. :-)
 
# #In light of
# #the fact that this subsample deals only with boys, their statement can't
# #logically be made to say that men who molest boys are homosexual, since they
# #themselves say that only 21% are homosexual.
# #
# #But making that assumption is EXACTLY what you did with Hyde's conclusion.
# #You took her statement that 20% of the molestation incidents were homosexual,
# #that is, involving men and boys, and then made the leap of faith that all
# #of these molesters were homosexual themselves. But by golly, Abel and Harlow
# #say you can't do that---only 21% of the guys who molest boys are actually
# #homosexual!
# 
# #The proper conclusion to make is that "men who molest boys,
# #regardless of their sexual orientation with respect to adults, do so
# #at a rate very much higher than their girl molesting counterparts.
# 
# And that molesters who self-identify as exclusively homosexual make up
# a very small fraction (10 out of 403) of all molesters.
# 
# Here is some other info I dug up:
# 
# [1.] David Finkelhor et al, 1986 "Sourcebook on Child Sexual Abuse"
# 
# p62: based on the review of many studies, Finkelhor concludes that
# 71% of victims are female, 29% male. He quotes studies which give
# female-to-male victim ratios ranging from 1.5:1 all the way to 9:1.

Yup.  There are a lot of heterosexual child molesters too.  The day
that straight society starts to justify this, I'll turn in my straight
membership card.

# [2.] Groth et al, 1978 LAE Journal of the American Criminal Justice
# Association, vol 41, #1:
# 
# he says 83% of all adult boy-molesters identify as exclusively heterosexual,
# 17% as bisexual, and ***NONE*** as homosexual.

17% is still FAR too high for the percentage in the general population --
and NO homosexuals at ALL?  Right.  I guess NAMBLA is just a bunch
of straight guys.

# kane@{buast7,astro}.bu.edu (Hot Young Star) Astronomy Dept, Boston University,
-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
"Well, maybe the Holocaust was right *for that culture*." -- a moral relativist
with whom I work.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc