HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: (defensio libertatis)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: American History?
Date: 21 Dec 1992 20:29:07 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: train.ebay.sun.com

Michael T. Itamura writes:

>   Well the local PBS station in San Francisco ran the entire 'Civil War'
> series today.  While watching it, actually I only saw a couple of hours of
> the show, I couldn't help but think how distant I feel from that part of
> American history.  While the show was interesting,  I feel no emotional
> attachment to the events during the war due to the fact that my progenitors
> were living in Japan during the American Civil War.

Yes I can see where you are coming from. Even just having been born in a
relatively "young" state in the Union, California, can "disconnect" a young
Asian-American and even a European-American from California/the West Coast
from the old eastern Establishment.

But I look at being American as a state of mind and spirit. My friend and I were
watching the same program on the Civil War. He's Irish-American (4th generation)
raised in Connecticut but was ignorant of many of the facts about the war and
seemed pretty indifferent to the show.

On the other hand, I know more than the average American about America's wars
all over the globe and served in the armed forces (as did many other Asian Americans)
The Civil War means alot to me on a philosophical, intellectual level. In that
sense, I feel all this country's history and institutions are my birthright by
virtue of the fact that they live vividly in my thoughts.

When I saw pictures of the horse-drawn caissons the Union Army used, I immediately
thought of my role as a sergeant loading Air Force transport planes. Yes, times
have changed but my unit and I are "successors" to past institutions and traditions.
  
Already the old Anglo-Saxon caste which founded the nation (the Washingtons, Jeffersons, Websters, Emersons) has "given way" to newer vibrant immigrant groups like the Irish (i.e. Kennedy) the Italians (i.e. Iacocca), Greeks (i.e. Michael Dukakis)...
Look at all the Asian-born engineers and researchers. There may be a Jonas Salk or
Alexander Graham Bell among them. Who knows?

You spoke of your first-generation grandfather. Well that is history, albeit more
recent than the Civil War.

I used to feel left out of America's history because my parents came from a tiny US island territory in the Pacific. It was a Spanish outpost in the Pacific since 
c. 1530 and was still Spanish when the US Civil War was fought. The natives called
Chamorros were forceably Catholicized and pretty much exploited. 

But now I feel in a sense the same way Native Americans like the Navajo feel--that my ancestors belonged to the island which is now American soil long before any European set foot on OUR land ;)  So technically, we are like the Navajo--the "first" Americans.

Regards,

-M. Aurelius Insularum
From: waveland@carson.u.washington.edu (Eric Holeman)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: CU/GE
Date: 1 Jan 1993 00:45:59 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
NNTP-Posting-Host: carson.u.washington.edu
Keywords: sfb

In article <1992Dec31.040900.11913@leland.Stanford.EDU>
 underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:

>But we Westerners-cu, Japanese-cu, etc. know better. 
>culture!=ethnicity(genetics)!=citizenship. 

Dwight, I hate to be the one to break this to you, but there's 
a phrase in Japanese to describe non-Japanese who try to act 
Japanese.  "It's henna gaijin", or "weird foreigner."  The 
concept that culture can be changed at whim like you change your socks
just doesn't exist in Japan.
From: amiller@almaden.ibm.com (Alex Miller)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: American History?
Date: 21 Dec 1992 21:45:40 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

I agree that the 442nd Battalion was great.  But learning about
the 442nd, I also want to know about the questionnaires that
imprisoned Japanese had to answer in January 1943.

For Nisei over 17 years old:  Selective service Q28.  Do you
swear uncompromised alliance to foreign powers or the Japanese
emperor?  (The Japanese government still considered Nisei as
dual citizens)

For Issei:  W.R.A. Q28.  Do you forswear allegiance to the
Emperor and the Japanese government.  (if you answer YES then
you will have NO country, since Issei are aliens ineligible for
citizenship.)

Why did it take until the Civil Liberties Act of 1988 for the
story of the camps to really come out?  Truly, I don't want to
take away from any of the heroism of the 442nd.  Listening to
Daniel Iouye during the Iran-gate hearings wasn't bad either.
But to over simplify the significance of the 442 is to
perpetuate the Model Minority Myth.  The Model Minority stuff,
which values a minority only in relation to the white "majority"
is out of date, and doesn't deal with contemporary issues.

Alex
amiller@almaden.ibm.com
From: edhall@rand.org (Ed Hall)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Women Asking Men Out (was Re: Asian males aren't attractive?)
Date: 31 Dec 92 05:32:55 GMT
Organization: RAND

In article <1ht611INN8sb@shelley.u.washington.edu> gwangung@carson.u.washington.edu (Roger Tang) writes:
>In article <1992Dec30.191927.21185@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> ajh@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Alan Hu) writes:
>>You know, I hear women (of all ethnicities) complaining that men (of all
>>ethnicities) don't like being asked out.  I hear this over and over.
>>Are most men out there turned off when someone asks them out?

>	Nope. At least not in their dreams. Of course, it's a different
>matter out in the real world.

Actually, I've seen this sort of thing happen--guys who say they'd just
love to be asked out for once, and then get all bent out of shape when
it happens.  This sort of thing drives women nuts, since they generally
have a better idea of what their emotional reaction would be to a given
situation than men do.  (Yes, I'm over-generalizing.  Sue me.)  There
a few things worse, I'm told, than going on a date with someone who has
just been thrown into a crisis over his masculinity.

		-Ed Hall
		edhall@rand.org
From: amiller@almaden.ibm.com (Alex Miller)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: American History?
Date: 23 Dec 1992 12:47:46 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

In <1992Dec22.042159.7792@leland.Stanford.EDU>
   underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:

> Where has Mr. Miller been?  I suspect that in most universities of
> at least average caliber, the issue of the Japanese-Americans during
> WWII is discussed and has been discussed for many decades in any
> American history class.

I don't doubt that it has been discussed in University classes.
I do have my doubts that Japanese-Americans have been discussed
in High School history classes - at least that is my recollection
going to a predominantly Black public High School in Harlem
during the late 1960s.

When I return to my car after shopping and find a flyer stuck
under my window-wiper calling for the "Return to our Northern
European Heritage" I really doubt that it's been put there by
someone who bothered to study American History in college.

When I wrote:

> Why did it take until the Civil Liberties Act of 1988 for the
> story of the camps to really come out?

I was referring to the funding which Congress set aside to
specifically educate the PUBLIC about the Japanese-American
internment.

Alex Miller
amiller@almaden.ibm.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: barrera@mtu.edu (Barrera)
Subject: Re: The Rising Sun by Michael Crichton
Organization: Michigan Technological University
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 04:49:08 GMT

ra01+@andrew.cmu.edu (Rikiya Asano) writes:
: Freinds,
: 
: .
: 
:      This thread is very interesting to me. By, being Americans in which
: I assume that most of you are, you should be aware of the'agles of
: racism.

You should define what in this case is "racism".

:          Playing one group of Asians agianst another has always been the
: target of the American


Not likely, since any regional group of nations do not need any help
to antagonize each other. They do a very good job of hating each other.
In this case, many asian countries still hate Japan.

: government. Especially, those people at the CIA. This type of analysis,
: although the imagination of the author maybe interesting, the motive is
: horrible. This is an imagination. But, we of the realistical world are

What is the motive?

: suppose to have the power to separate to real from the unreal. It is
: unique as to the response to this
: within this group.

Eh? Please clarify.



-chris barrera    barrera@mtu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: shou@quads.uchicago.edu (roger colin shouse)
Subject: Re: Inter-racial dating
Reply-To: shou@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 18:31:53 GMT

In article <1992Dec19.005702.26793@oakhill.sps.mot.com> rjchou@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Ri Jen Chou) writes:
>
>>I put it to you that if a heterosexual has homoerotic thoughts and _enjoys_
>>them, then they could easily become a homosexual.  Similarly, a homosexual
>>who begins to enjoy heterosexual thoughts could also change.  
>>I've seen both processes occur among friends and aquaintences.
>
>
>I have never heard of any documented cases where these "processes" take
>place.  If it is so easy, why then don't all homosexuals become straight?
>Do you think it is *fun* to be scorned and hated and get beat up and killed
>just for being gay?  I put it to you that if it is so easy, please show me
>(and the rest of the newsgroup)  how to do it.  Demonstrate, please.
>
>What I think you may have seen is closeted or represssed gay people finally 
>coming to terms with themselves and coming out of the closet.  As for the
>gay people whom you have seen become straight, have they *really* become
>straight?  Maybe they were closet-straights  :-)
>
>
>
>-- 
>Ri-Jen Chou   		rjchou@decimator.sps.mot.com
>Motorola Austin / Eclectic Environs

Well, now we get to the difficult issue of defining "gayness."  Implicit
in your argument above is the notion that only to be considered gay are
those who would never think of having relations with the opposite sex.
I'd reject such a definition, and would argue that sexual preference may
be more "fluid" than most would admit (including extreme homophobes and
radical queers).  In my case, I've known a couple of people who engaged
in a long term, arguably "commited" gay relationship who later ended up
marrying members of the opposite sex.  And what are we to make of 
bisexuality?  Are those who practice it born that way?  Can they also
never change their orientation one way or the other?

My original point still stands, I believe; that given an inclination and
an opportunity, a good number of people could try something new and learn
to like it.
-- 
Roger Shouse
The University of Chicago 		Email: shou@midway.uchicago.edu
From: amiller@almaden.ibm.com (Alex Miller)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: American History
Date: 23 Dec 1992 18:21:19 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

In <1992Dec23.224728.13487@leland.Stanford.EDU>
  underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:

> By the way, "late 1960's" is 24+ years ago.  Things have changed a bit
> since then, haven't they?

I think people are too busy just trying to make ends meet.
They don't worry much about racism until it hits them in the head.
I was more optimistic back then.

I used to think I had my act together, but I carry around
prejudice and ignorance, just like my friends and family.  I
grew up quite close to Columbia Univ.  and I would see people in
the street from all over the U.S. and the World.  I lived in
building with Puerto Ricans, Dominicans, Anglos, Blacks,
Japanese, Chinese and Koreans and saw them all as individuals.
I thought I was cool.

When I traveled and worked in Europe I had a very hard time
adjusting to the idea of Black-French, Chinese-Dutch,
Japanese-Peruvians, etc...  I couldn't understand that a Black
person could not be either American or African.  Actually, I was
home sick, and each time I saw a Black or Chinese person I
thought I was seeing an American, then I discovered that they
were "foreign."  Some soul searching led me to the question of
what makes me an American?  I still wonder about this - in
between worrying if I'll have a job a year from now.

Is the U.S. really just a "White" country?
What kind of country does the U.S. WANT to be?

Back in January, 1930, there were race riots in Watsonville,
California because Filipinos had opened a Taxi Dance Hall
outside town.  D. W. Rohrback - President of the North Monterey
County Chamber of Commerce (and good friend of Valintine S.
McClatchy of the "Bee" newspapers) wrote:

     "whereas any foreign people ....  (cannot assimilate)
     ....  Filipinos are a menace to morals and health ...
     we want no more Filipino immigration ...  we do not
     advocate violence, but we should ...  send the Filipino
     back ...  because this country was inherited by the
     white people"

Last time I checked, Clinton hadn't appointed any Asian Americans
to a major post in his cabinet.  I know that Leon Panetta, for
example, isn't the "business as usual type."  Time will tell.

(okay, I've gone off on enough tangents . . .
 where's my asbestos?   8-)                   )

Alex
amiller@almaden.ibm.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu)
Subject: Re: Kristi Yamaguchi
Organization: Nynex Science and Technology
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 92 13:55:58 GMT

In article <14980@cis.rand.org> caryho@cis.rand.org (Cary Ho) writes:
>
>  Hi people, I've been a reader of this group for sometime but never
>  posted before.  I remember awhile back there was some talk about
>  Kristi Yamaguchi not being asian enough so I just have to share this
>  with you when I saw this ad in the L.A. Times today 12/19/92.  This
>  ad depicts a picture of K.Y. in a pair of color contacts that is not so,
>  shall I say, asian-ge.  The caption says, and I quote:
>
>   "When I want a little change I go green, violet or gray.  DuraSoft Colors
>    can change your eye color in a wink of an eye even if you don't need
>    visual correction.  With 18 shades ranging from subtle to dramatic,
>    you'll find DuraSoft Colors that are right for you."
>
>  I don't know whether to laugh or feel sad or happy that K.Y. is making
>  money from this ad.   Just something for you all to ponder.
>
>  No flame please.  Just reporting.
>

  This reminds me of a gaffe I made at a party.  My friend Monica
  (Mexican-American) walks in and since I haven't seen her for awhile
  I was very happy to see her.  In the middle of greetings and "Wow,
  you look just the same as in high school."  I exclaimed, "Wow, you got
  some new green contacts!  They look nice."  Suddenly the room got
  quiet, and Monica (with her new boyfriend standing next to her)
  mumbled, "Uh um,... thanks..."

  Has anyone done the same with one of their friends who had the
  eye-surgery?  My mom accidentally did when she said to my friend,
  "Your new eyes look nice." before she noticed what she said...  :-)
From: sedayao@sousa.intel.com (Jeff Sedayao)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: religious attitudes of Asian Americans (question)
Date: 29 Dec 92 00:01:48 GMT
Reply-To: sedayao@chopin.intel.com
Distribution: soc
Organization: Intel - Information Technologies

In article <1992Dec27.184436.16635@vax5.cit.cornell.edu>, q2tj@vax5.cit.cornell.edu writes:
> I'm curious about what religions Asian Americans tend to
> follow.  Budhist, Christian, Jewish??? or just plain
> old Secular (ie no real religion or affiliations)  Anyone
> know any stats on this, or have some feeling on how this
> divides up? What about sketches of attitudes on this subject???

I think that it depends on the ethnicity of the Asian American group
you are looking at.  Filipino-Americans are overwhelmingly Catholic, 
although there are some that are Mormon, fundamentalist Christian,
Muslim, Aglipay or Iglesia ni Christo (two Filipino Christian 
sects).  I don't have a good feel for the other Asian American groups.

Of course, religious affiliation and regular practice are different
things.  The San Jose Mercury News ran a story on how regularly different 
ethnic groups practice their religion.  Of the stats I do remember, about 13%
percent of whites were regular, as opposed to some 4% of Filipinos.  Hispanics
were higher than whites, and the highest group (about 33% I think) was Koreans.
 
> thanks
> Steve
> q2tj@vax5.cit.cornell.edu

-- 
Jeff Sedayao
Intel Corporation
sedayao@chopin.intel.com
..!uunet!intelhf!chopin!sedayao
From: babar+@pitt.edu (Jonggu Moon)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Women Asking Men Out (was Re: Asian males aren't attractive?)
Date: 30 Dec 92 23:08:00 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

>Are most men out there turned off when someone asks them out?
turned me on big time!
But had to leave the area soon ( as in move out ) so I couldn't
follow up.
From: ra01+@andrew.cmu.edu (Rikiya Asano)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: CU/GE
Date: 31 Dec 92 18:28:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.IfEwVtq00WBO42JnEB
	<1992Dec31.172137.23398@digi.lonestar.org>
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Friends,

.

          Please don't let this Dwight Joe character get you to think
that he is Japanese. He is Chinese-born, grew up in Nippon and now lives
in America. When he say, "We Japanese"! Take it very lightly! On s.c.j.
he somewhat praises Nippon above reality too. He is very intellegent.
but Very naive and childish too. He like to hide behide this 'corny'
name. It would not surprize me if he were a White-cu boy(but, I doubt it)
From: underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe)
Subject: Re: American History?
Organization: Miners for a Heart of Gold
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 04:21:59 GMT

In article <921221.194506.amiller@almaden.ibm.com> amiller@almaden.ibm.com
(Alex Miller) writes:
>I agree that the 442nd Battalion was great.  But learning about
>the 442nd, I also want to know about the questionnaires that
>imprisoned Japanese had to answer in January 1943.
>...
>Why did it take until the Civil Liberties Act of 1988 for the
>story of the camps to really come out?

Come out?

Where has Mr. Miller been?  I suspect that in most universities of
at least average caliber, the issue of the Japanese-Americans during
WWII is discussed and has been discussed for many decades in any
American history class.

>  Truly, I don't want to
>take away from any of the heroism of the 442nd.  Listening to
>Daniel Iouye during the Iran-gate hearings wasn't bad either.
>But to over simplify the significance of the 442 is to
>perpetuate the Model Minority Myth.  The Model Minority stuff,

I fail to see how "regarding the volunteers that formed the 442nd Battalion
(of Japanese-American soldiers) as heroes" either (1) simplifies the
significance of their accomplishment or (2) perpetuates the Model Minority
Myth.  Generally speaking, I fail to see how "noting the accomplishments of
Japanese-Americans" either (1) simplifies the significance of their
accomplishment or (2) perpetuates the Model Minority Myth.

>which values a minority only in relation to the white "majority"
>is out of date, and doesn't deal with contemporary issues.

Sure.  There are some people out there, like a certain loud-mouthed
"activist" in San Francisco, who think that pointing out the Japanese-American
defense of the Constitution is tantamout to showing how "White" they
are.  That's ludicrous.  So, what if the Constitution was written by
White men?  What's the big deal.

The Constitution is a fine document.  That Japanese-Americans fought the
Nazi forces that besmirched the values in the Constitution should be
applauded.

Come on, Mr. Miller.  Don't let people like that "activist" convince
you to shy away from noting heroism in America's minorities.  What
really probably bothers that "activist" and other people from his cultural
group is that maybe, just maybe, their cultural group has one too many ....

>Alex
>amiller@almaden.ibm.com

------------------------------------------------------------------+------------
Jinsei no imi wa nan desu ka.                Sister, can you      |   \|  |`
Shitte itara oshiete kuremasen ka.           spare a coin?        |    | -+-
                                                                  |   /| / \
Copyright 1992.  Disclaimer:  1 + 1 = 3                           |
------------------------------------------------------------------+------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe)
Subject: Re: American History?
Organization: Miners for a Heart of Gold
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 01:22:46 GMT

In article <921221.121004.amiller@almaden.ibm.com> amiller@almaden.ibm.com
(Alex Miller) writes:
>I'm a white invisible minority and I no emotional attachment to the
>American Civil War either.  Perhaps it is because my Grandparents were
>FOB in the 1930s, escaping from Nazi persecution.  I grew up in
>Manhattan (111th & Broadway), went to Louis D. Brandeis H.S. and
>Columbia University;  this is what America is to me.
>I do value studying American History.  It's an important reminder of
>just how fragile our "rights" are.  We need some NEW American
>heroes, like Gordon Hirabayashi.

We Americans already have a great many Japanese-American heros.
Many of them are from the 442nd Battalion; others are like Dale Minami,
a person well-versed in American law.

The 442nd was the most-decorated (because of war casualties) battalion
of the 2nd World War.  These brave men volunteered to die for America
even though their families were shameless interned in prison camps.
They understood, "Ask not what your country can do for you but ask what
you can do for your country", decades before President Kennedy uttered
those famous words.

Unquestionably, some of American's finest heroes are Japanese-American.

------------------------------------------------------------------+------------
Jinsei no imi wa nan desu ka.                Sister, can you      |   \|  |`
Shitte itara oshiete kuremasen ka.           spare a coin?        |    | -+-
                                                                  |   /| / \
Copyright 1992.  Disclaimer:  1 + 1 = 3                           |
------------------------------------------------------------------+------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: lam@popeye.comm.mot.com (Dan Lam)
Subject: Re: Asian cliques. Why?
Organization: Land Mobile Products Sector, Motorola INC.
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 13:48:10 GMT

In article <1992Dec22.101720.29472@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com> lam@popeye.comm.mot.com (Dan Lam) writes:
>Well I don't know about the Japanese population over there now but when
>I lived in Denver (suburban Englewood to be exact),  I hardly saw any
>Japanese (or Asian-ge) looking people.  This was back in the 70's.  However
>I must agree with Peter that there weren't  *any* chinese grocery store
>around.  I do recall that there was this *huge* Japanese store in
downtown Denver where we used to go for stuffs but I wasn't into tofu
then.  

(sorry my previous F-up got chopped off).
--
|       Daniel Lam  danl@comm.mot.com  Chicago, Il, USA         |  
|...  Merry Xmas, Don't drink and spike, Don't drink and jibe,  |
|  Don't drink and blade, oops this last one does not rythm ....|
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~