HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pcj1@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Pierre Jelenc)
Subject: Re: Compuserve
Reply-To: pcj1@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Pierre Jelenc)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 16:43:53 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.205853.9980@sco.com> stewarte@sco.COM (nothing a bullet in the belly couldn't cure) writes:
>
>In a previous article, I said that I now understood why some people
>put notices on their Usenet articles stating that they could not be
>reproduced on services like Compuserve.  I didn't mean to advocate that
>position, only to say that I could understand the feelings that must
>lead to it.  While I wish that there could be two-way communication
>between homebrewers on Compuserve and homebrewers on Usenet, it's clear
>that adding such notices would either have no effect at all (as some 
>have suggested) or just cut off Compuserve subscribers from that 
>information.  It is Compuserve's policy that seems unfair (albeit not
>surprising); we have nothing against homebrewers who subscribe.
>
>However, I'm curious about the nature of the Compuserve agreement.
>While grabbing entire chunks of the forum and reposting them seems
>clearly a no-no, individual authors _do_ retain ownership of their
>own articles, don't they?  I saw at least one article in a recent
>Zymurgy that said it had originally appeared on Compuserve, so it's
>not that all the postings become property of Compuserve.  This would
>seem to imply that individual authors could resend articles to the
>HBD or to rec.crafts.brewing.  If so, maybe we could ask homebrewers
>on Compuserve to forward articles they've written which they're
>especially proud of (and which make sense out of context) -- e.g.,
>those recipes that turned out Really Great, etc.  It should be possible
>for Compuserve subscribers to send directly to the HBD, and as that
>is in turn posted to r.c.b. it offers wider access than posting directly
>to r.c.b.
>
>Or maybe this is already done, and I just haven't noticed?  
>

Sorry a bout the massive requote, I don't have time for much surgery.

About Compuserve and Internet:

  1/ There seems to be a misunderstanding somewhere. rec.crafts.brewing is
  _NOT_ and has never been reproduced on Compuserve. I have no idea where
  this came from.

  2/ As anyone with e-mail access, Compuserve members may choose to subscribe
  to the HBD. However, as a favor to them, and in order to reduce their costs,
  the Compuserve sysops make available a compressed .ARC version of the last
  dozen or so HBDs so that they can be downloaded at half the cost.

  3/ The Compuserve gateway to the Internet is a _mail_ gateway only. it is
  not possible to send or receive Usenet news on a Compuserve account.

  4/ Compuserve only objects to massive lifting of its messages or files into
  another system. Occasional transfer, quoting, etc, are perfectly OK and are
  done all the time. 


Pierre Jelenc                        pcj1@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu 
                                    Columbia University, New York
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: amead@s.psych.uiuc.edu (Alan Mead)
Subject: Hefe vs Krystal Weissbier
Organization: UIUC Department of Psychology
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 04:51:16 GMT

I have yet to brew a wiessbier, and I have (in Papazian's book) a
recipie for a hefe weissbier.  Is it a real pain to make krystal?
And if anyone has brewed a krystal, is the taste really different?

Thanks.

-alan
From: rogers@ial3.jsc.nasa.gov (andy rogers)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Re: Aeration of wort?
Date: 17 Dec 92 17:53:04 GMT
Organization: Lockheed Engineering
X-Xxdate: Thu, 17 Dec 92 17:44:11 GMT
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d13

In article <1992Dec16.210500.14700@sernews.raleigh.ibm.com> Charlie Murray,
murray@rocky.raleigh.ibm.com writes:
>I believe they expect the fermenter to be open when the bubbler is in place,
>so that any air in the headspace will be exhausted.  Then, after 24 hours, you
>remove the bubbler, place an airlock, and ferment as normal.  I'm not sure
>I understand the significance of your point, not understanding the affects
>on the wort from the CO2 (or lack thereof) in the headspace anyway.

the CO2 sort of protects you from airborne infectious particles. the general
flow of gas is away from the surface. this bubbler aeration method in an OPEN
vessel will cause a circulation of happenstance air above the wort. in a
CLOSED vessel you're still pumping outside air into the wort. unless you've
got some kind of filter between the outside air and that getting pumped into
the vessel, you're increasing the exposure to whatever infectious beasties are
in the fermenting area.

and now you've also got more equipment to sterilise, one piece of which is a
stone with a lot of teeny tiny holes in it. i just think it's way overkill
with way overhead.

there's more than beauty in simplicity.

aNDY
----
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: james@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (James White)
Subject: Re: Fruit Flies and bananas
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 15:13:30 GMT
Reply-To: JamesWhite@vnet.ibm.com
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM Rochester


With all the talk about fruit flies and banana tastes in beer,
I just couldn't resist...

Time flies like an arrow.  Fruit flies like a banana.

-- 

James White 
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: trevathan@ppd.jsc.nasa.gov (Joseph R. Trevathan)
Subject: Re: Gleaming immersion chiller
Organization: NASA - JSC
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 16:48:11 GMT

In article <7964@tekig7.PEN.TEK.COM>, alh@tekig1.PEN.TEK.COM (Al Hooton) writes:
>
> stuff deleted
>
> 	Hmmm... bending SS tubing seems a *lot* harder than bending copper
> tubing.  Lots of different characteristics.  Obviously, it can be done,
> but not with a simple $5.95 spring-style tubing bender (which is what
> I bend copper tubing with).
>
> stuff deleted
> 
> 	Anybody actually have first-hand experience with bending SS
> tubing?  I've only ever seen it done, and not for very long at that.
> 
I have worked with stainless tubing.  You are correct, it is much more 
difficult to work with than copper.  Typically a hand actuated bender is
used to draw the tubing around a quarter-circle mandrel.  With 1/4" tubing
this is not that hard, but with 3/8" and larger this becomes rather
difficult.  In fact, whenever a lot of bends will be needed, most people
use a power bender which takes most all the effort out of it--but at a
significant cost premium :-)

All this is probably a moot point, because the very poor thermal
conduction properties of stainless steel make it undesirable for use in
a heat exchanger anyway.  

Briefly paraphrased for relative magnitudes evidence:
k for copper:  232 (mess/o' units)
k for 300 and 400 series stainless steel:  ~10
k for aluminum:  130
k for silver:  242

Now if you could find some silver tubing......:-)

joe
trevathan@ppd.jsc.nasa.gov (thats the propulsion and power division, fyi)
sigless
From: malodah@pbhyf.PacBell.COM (Martin A. Lodahl)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Re: Compuserve
Date: 18 Dec 92 22:36:31 GMT
Reply-To: malodah@PacBell.COM (Martin A. Lodahl)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA

In article <1992Dec18.202655.16789@news.columbia.edu> pcj1@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Pierre Jelenc) writes:
>		... What is needed, and what I
>haven't seen, is a clear and simple list of methods available to John Q.
>Public who has an Apple II or a PC clone and a modem.

[ ... ]

>And get it out in the open. Write an article for Zymurgy ...

It's been done.  Repeatedly.  I even did it once, but the article 
never saw publication, and the electronic brewing scene has changed 
so much since I wrote it that it would certainly appear quaint
if published now.  But it won't be published, as it only touched
lightly upon the forum the AHA sponsors ...

-- 
= Martin A. Lodahl    [DoD, AHA, NRA]  Systems Analyst, Pacific*Bell =
= malodah@PacBell.COM		Sacramento, CA, USA     916.972.4821 =
= If it's good for ancient Druids, runnin' nekkid through the wuids, =
= Drinkin' strange fermented fluids, it's good enough for me!!  8-)} =
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: drebosio@vax.clarku.edu
Subject: RE: DME
Organization: Clark University
Date: 18 DEC 92 04:05:04 GMT

LAST
RESPOND
RESPOND
LAST
LAST
From: mark@verdix.com (Mark Lundquist)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Re: aeration of wort
Date: 16 Dec 92 17:55:04 GMT
Organization: Verdix Western Operations, Aloha  OR

In article <1992Dec16.142439.25319@aio.jsc.nasa.gov> rogers@ial3.jsc.nasa.gov (andy rogers) writes:
>
>brewers and aquarists are both right. if you pay close attention to what the
>aquarists say, the benefit from the aeration stones comes in causing the water
>in the tank to be circulated thus exposing more of the water molecules to the
>surface where it becomes aerated.

Speaking as one whose only interest in fish is of a gustatory nature,
can you educate me regarding just what in the sam-hill are "aeration
stones", anyway?  Normally I would have asked you via E-mail, but it
seems to me that there may be other r.c.b. readers besides myself
who are similarly ignorant of aquarium matters!

>sloshing your beer does much the same thing,
>though quicker than a stone with an air pump. you'd have to wait a
>godawfulmighty long time to aerate your wort if you're trying to gentle with
>the fish in it.

Ah, now I see...you keep fish in your beer wort.  I think maybe this
is a special case.  Do you rack the beer off of the fish after primary
fermentation?  *<chortle>*  Actually I remember reading somewher
that the fish known as the "alewife" is so named because it was once
used in making some kind of ale (although I think the fish was dead by
the time it went into the beer).  Yuk!  Oh well, "don't knock it till
you've tried it" :-)

>the point with the aquarium is that constant circulation
>continuously re-aerates the water 'breathed' by the fish. it doesn't have to
>be quick, just fast enough so the fishies don't suffocate.
>
>aNDY
>----
From: silver.e@zooid.guild.org (Eric Silver)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Re: Simulating Fermentation?
Date: 18 Dec 92 07:11:10 GMT

From: watson@pioneer.arc.nasa.gov (John S. Watson - FSC)
>Hello Net.Beer.Folks,
>
>While lying awake last night, thinking about
>my latest batch of brew bubbling away down stairs, 
>I wondered: Has anyone ever simulated, on a computer (or otherwise)
>the dynamics of a fermenting carboy of beer?
>
>From what I can see from the outside, down toward the bottom, 
>things are fairly calm.
>But near the top, there are all sorts of fabulous turbulents.
>
>Is any net circulation inside the carboy?
>What would be the path of a yeast cell
>during the most active stages of the ferment?
>All sorts of questions pop into my mind.
>
>Seems like this would be a fun program to write,
>while I'm slurping down my homebrews.
>
I drinking now (my eighth), but I'll try to respond;

/* Fementation Simulation */
/* Eric Silver - York, Upper Canada. */
/* "Legitimize dissent in Canada!" */
<stdio.h>
<sip>
<dos.h>

main()
{
/* <sip>

   <burp>

  <glug> <sip> <burp>

*/ 
printf("

   <sip>
       <glug>  <sip>

       <burp>
            <sip>

                   Th
                      si prgmna wlki



<THUD!>


zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

TIME OUT


:-)
From: jbasara@ssdc.UUCP (Jim Basara)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Re: COMPUSENET DEC 10
Date: 18 Dec 92 11:50:58 GMT
Organization: Sterling Software IMD, Vienna, Va.

ritz@ritz.mordor.com (Christopher Mauritz) writes:
: What good does that do?  You have absolutely no means of enforcing 
: such restrictions.  I too am a bit annoyed that Compuserve takes
: advantage of the net without providing any services in return,
: but there doesn't seem to be anything we can do about it.  I feel
: the same way about those leaches who make CD-ROMs out of FTP
: archives and sell them.
: 

Maybe if we all put "Compuserve SUCKS" and "you can get News for free" in 
our .sig files, the crossposting would stop.

just a thought

--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim Basara
     uunet!ssdc!jbasara                "All the other nations are drinking
     jbasara%ssdc@uunet.uu.net         Ray Charles beer, and we are drinking
                                       Barry Manilow." - Dave Barry
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: cav@bnr.ca (Rick Cavasin)
Subject: Re: Aeration of wort?
Reply-To: cav@bnr.ca (Rick Cavasin)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 15:56:55 GMT

RE: comparing aeration of fish tanks to aerating wort

Yes, I remember that stipulation from the distant past when
I was an aquarium hobbyist.  The bubbles rise to the surface
of the aquarium so fast that there is little time for significant
absorbtion of oxygen into the water compared to the amount that
occurs at the surface of the water.  The main benefit from the
bubbles is to maintain circulation of the water and prevent
stratification.

In brewing, the surface area is smaller, so the circulation of
the wort becomes more important.  If the aeration is occuring in
a carboy, the air-stone ensures rapid replacement of the air
in the headspace as well.   The airstone's agitation effect
makes it useful in aerating wort just as it makes it useful
in aerating aquariums.   

HOWEVER, I think the two situations are completely different
kettles of fish when you consider who's using the oxygen.
I would hazard a guess that a fish requires MUCH higher
concentrations of oxygen than the yeast does to respire
properly.  Even if the airstone's bubbles contribute an
insignificant amount of dissolved oxygen from a fish's
point of view, this contribution will appear quite different
from the yeast's point of view.  I've seen 'stuck' fermentations
burst into vigorous fermentation after racking (which would
have added a limited amount of oxygen).  The airstone would
be very useful in situations where the volume of wort precludes
vigorous shaking.

In addition, the fish in the aquarium is a steady state system
where you are trying to maintain a certain minimum level of
dissolved oxygen over the long term.  The aeration of a wort
is essentially a transient phenomenon: you inject a certain
amount of oxygen which is then consumed by the yeast.  I haven't
given much thought to how this would affect your aeration requirements.  

Just my two cents, I slosh the carboy myself.

My question is, while cooled wort may not oxidize much during aeration,
what about cider, mead, or wine must?  Since fruit juices DO oxidize
at room temp., how are these conflicting requirements of aerating the
must and avoiding oxidation resolved?

Cheers,
Rick C.
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: betel@camelot.bradley.edu (Robert Crawford)
Subject: Re: Simulating Fermentation?
Organization: Bradley University
Distribution: na
Date: 16 Dec 92 22:11:41 GMT

murray@rocky.raleigh.ibm.com (Charlie Murray) writes:

>On a macro level, you would expect there to be circulation of wort in the
>carboy due to the changing specific gravity.  This leads to an interesting
>question.  If the fermented liquid is lighter (lower SG), wouldn't all of the
>sugar laden wort sink to the bottom, away from a top fermenting ale yeast?

	I would think the rate of change of SG would be very much
less than the diffusion rate of the alcohols and sugars. In other
words, I don't think the change would be quick enough to set up
convection currents.

	I could be wrong, though. Have to check it out with someone
who knows a bit more fluid dynamics than me...

--
"I need some job advice: I was a juggler, but my balls were ripped
off."
	- from "Letters", Garish and the Doctor

Rob Crawford 					betel@camelot.bradley.edu
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: johnd@hopduvel.uucp (Hopduvel)
Subject: Re: feeding yeast with yeast
Reply-To: hopduvel!brewmaster@linac.fnal.gov (John)
Organization: Isenbrau Brewery
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 03:47:27 GMT

In article <9254@verdix.verdix.com> mark@verdix.com (Mark Lundquist) writes:
>In article <1992Dec14.044238.11158@advtech.uswest.com> mgooley@advtech.uswest.com (Mark. Gooley) writes:
>>I have several pounds of baker's yeast that is approaching its expiration
>>date (bought it cheap therefore).  Suppose that I take several ounces of
>>it, mix that with water, and boil it to death.  Would it make an adequate
>>substitute for yeast nutrient for brewing mead?

From what I understand, you need to rupture the yeast cells to allow
the nutritional guts to get out and be available.  There are tissue
homogenizers (looks like a cloverleaf propeller made out of what
looks like carborundum) that are made for yeast.  Boiling might
break down too many nutrients.  We used to use Purina autoclavable
rat food for research, it had extra goodies that were heat
sensitive.

>Along the same lines...there's something called "nutritional yeast"
...
>Anyway, from what I understand this stuff to be (dead yeast), it would
>seem to be the same as the "yeast energizer" that is sold in homebrew
>shops.  Looks the same, smells the same, but it's a lot cheaper.
>
>Does anybody know whether it is in fact the same stuff?

I used to buy brewers yeast to use as a vitamin supplement (now I
get it fresh from the bottle:) and it doesnt look like my yeast
energizer.  The health-nut brewers yeast sorta looks like yeast. 
My yeast food looks like little white crystals (amorphous and not)
and smells of b vitamins and supposedly contains trace elements and
vitamins.

--  
John Isenhour                       
renaissance scientist and AHA/HWBTA certified Beer Judge 
home: john@hopduvel.UUCP  (hopduvel!john@linac.fnal.gov)
work: isenhour@lambic.fnal.gov 
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: jdecarlo@mitre.org (John DeCarlo)
Subject: Re: Gleaming immersion chiller
Organization: MITRE Corporation, McLean  VA
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 19:39:30 GMT

In article <BzF349.CIJ@news.dtc.hp.com>
 peterm@dtc.hp.com (Sweet Pete) writes:

>In article <1992Dec16.181118.8923@hplabsz.hpl.hp.com>
> kral@hplabsz.hpl.hp.com (Joseph Kral) writes:
>>
>>OK, I just asked the resident chemist here.  He says, I had it right. The
>>acidity etches off the copper oxide.  He says that all metals have an 
>>associated etch rate.  Stainless steel is very low and things like copper
>>are relatively high.  (This chemist is a former homebrewer also).

>Interesting.  Is he a "former" brewer because after he realized what was
>happening he stopped rather than die of copper poisoning?  :-)

BTW, any technical types out there who can clearly explain why copper brew 
kettles, copper wort chillers, etc. pose no risk of copper poisoning because 
of fermentation?  It seems to me the yeast do something with it.

John DeCarlo, MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA--My views are my own
Fidonet:  1:109/131  Internet:  jdecarlo@mitre.org
From: jsm@mse.cmu.edu (James S Murphy)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Tessellator
Date: 14 Dec 92 14:58:38 GMT
Organization: CMU/SEI Master of Software Engineering Program


	                      Tessellator
         (based on a recipe from "Country Wines", Pittsburgh, PA)

While brewing and studying (in that order) at Carnegie Mellon
University, we decided to brew a dopplebock.  Since dopple-
bocks end in 'ator', this beer was named after a NASA robot that
some of us were involved in building.  The robot waterproofs the
tiles on the space shuttle, and we feel that after a couple of
these, you may be able to handle re-entry as well.  

Ingredients (for 5 1/2 gals)

   8 lbs Heidelberg Bavarian Bock Malt Dark
   1 lb M&F dry light
   1/4 lb Chocolate Malt, crushed
   1/8 lb Black Roasted Barley, crushed
   1/2 lb German light crystal, crushed
   2 ozs, Fresh Bullion Hops
   1/2 oz Fresh Chinnok Hops
   1 oz  Fresh Perl Hops 
   1/2 oz Compressed Kent Goldings Hops
   1 tsp Irish Moss
   1 1/2 inches licorice, crushed
   2 pkgs Whitbred Ale yeast

Brewer's Specifics

   Crush all grains, place in muslin bag in 6 qts water.  Bring to a boil.
   Remove grains in bag and add all malts.  Boil 20 minutes.
   Add Bullion Hops. Boil 30 minutes.
   Add Chinook Hops, Licorice, Irish Moss. Boil 15 minutes.
   Add 1/4 oz Perl hops. Boil 10 minutes.
   Add 1/4 oz Perl hops. Boil 5 minutes.
   Chill wort and sparge into primary fermenter.  Add water to 5 1/2 gals.
   Dry hop 1/2 oz Kent Goldings in muslin bag.  Pitch yeast.

	O.S.G.		1.053
	
   Rack to secondary, removing hops after fermentation slows.
   Bottle with 1 1/4 cup M&F dry malt for priming. 

 	F.S.G.		1.011

Comments

   This is drinkable in about 2 or 3 weeks, but mellows greatly after
   about 10-12 weeks.
   
Howie Dow
Jim Murphy
Manuel Rosso-Llopart
Master of Software Engineering program, Carnegie Mellon University


-- 

      Jim Murphy                                jsm@mse.cmu.edu
      PP-ASEL-IA                                Carnegie Mellon University
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: pmk@moliere.uucp (Peter Michael Klausler)
Subject: Re: Compuserve
Organization: Lilydale DFL Refreshments Committee & Rhythm Section
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 07:02:07 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.162001.12068@sernews.raleigh.ibm.com> murray@rocky.raleigh.ibm.com (Charlie Murray) writes:
>
>What it boils down to is this.  CompuServe, and services like them, are
>available to ANYONE who has the right equipment.  Usenet is only available
>to those individuals who are fortunate enough to gain access through a
>university, government organization, or company willing to pay for the
>connection.  There are not enough local Usenet access nodes around the country
>to provide connections for all individuals, and those that exist, all charge
>subscription fees for connect time ala CompuServe.
>
>As I have said before, Usenet is NOT free.  It is funded by the NSF using
>federal money, and paid for by companies (to the tune of around $10,000/year).

I used the word "free" in its sense of restrictions on use, not in its
monetary sense. I regret for the ambiguity.

Usenet is certainly not free of cost. I pay for my own news feed from a
commercial access service, and I'm not reimbursed by NSF or my employer.
Is the cost, effort, or equipment requirement higher for Usenet than
for Compuserve? I don't know, actually.

>All of you with "free" access to usenet, ask yourselves this.  If you didn't
>have this access, what would you do?  CompuServe is a reasonable alternative
>to those of us faced with this question.

Yes, it sure is.
-- 
________________________________________________________________________________

"Omit needless words."                 Peter Klausler - pmk%moliere@uunet.uu.net
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: pcj1@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Pierre Jelenc)
Subject: Re: Sour Milk [Re: Xylitol info]
Reply-To: pcj1@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Pierre Jelenc)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 02:27:33 GMT

>
>) Many of these same people claimed to prefer xylitol or
>) sorbitol too, but I *think* that both of these sugar/alcohols are not
>) metabolized by humans either, i.e. they could cause the same symptoms as
>) lactose in intolerant individuals.
>
>Doubt it.  Any doctors about?
>
 Not an MD but I'm pretty sure that sorbitol and xylitol cause intestinal
distress and diarrhea in moderate amounts. Small quantities as used in
chewing gum or cough drops are well tolerated.


Pierre Jelenc                        pcj1@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu 
                                    Columbia University, New York
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: golka@bnr.ca
Subject: Honey -> Slow fermentation?
Keywords: Honey, Slow fermentation?
Organization: Bell-Northern Research
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 13:47:39 GMT

Anyone know why honey in a beer creates very long fermentations? I and 
several people I know have noticed that a kg. of honey makes the tail of the 
fermentation last for months?

Bill Crick   Brewius, Ergo Sum!