HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jheath@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Jim Heath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .357 in a 9mm
Date: 23 Nov 92 21:39:05 GMT
Organization: Center for Environmental and Regulatory Information Systems, Purdue University

#From article <osLmuB1w164w@upchrch.UUCP>, by upchrch!joel@peora.sdc.ccur.com (Joel Upchurch  ):
# mac@cis.ksu.edu (Myron A. Calhoun) writes:
# 
# # I saw a revolver just this morning advertised to shoot both .357 Magnum
# # and 9mm.  The owner said it had two cylinders (because the 9mm cartridge
# # is shorter) but used the same barrell.
# # 
# # Now I'm curious why I can't shoot 9mm in the same revolver which already
# # shoots .357 Magnum and the 0.1" shorter .38 Special.  Just how much
# # shorter is a 9mm cartridge?
# 
# The overall length for the .357 is 1.590 inches while the 9mm 1.169
# inches. That's a lot of cylinder gap to jump. I would also assume
# that the 9mm cylinder is set up to use half or full moon clips to
# hold the 9mm cartridges in place. I wouldn't think that a 9mm would
# shoot very well out of a .357 barrel, since it is only .355.
# 

I have a (gasp!) Ruger Blackhawk with the dual cylinders.  It has been a
while since I have shot it, but the 9mm cylinder seemed to do ok.  Being a
single action, it does not require moon clips.  I have always intended to
get another one in .45 LC/acp.
-- 
"Land of song, said the warrior bard,           Jim Heath
Though all the world betrays thee.
One sword, at least, thy rights shall guard, (The Minstrel Boy)
One faithful harp will praise thee."         (Thomas Moore)
From: hes@unity.ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Plastic Magazines
Date: 22 Nov 92 23:55:34 GMT
Organization: North Carolina State University


  On the other hand my experience has been excellent with a
RamLine 14 round magazine for the Ruger Mark II.  Well, it just
holds 13 1/2 rounds but in the dozens of times it has been
loaded and emptied it has never given any trouble.  One plus is
how easy it is to load.

--henry schaffer  n c state univ
From: forda@gtephx.UUCP (Andrew Ford @ AGCS, Phoenix, Arizona)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Bad tactical position ( was Psychology in Defense)
Date: 19 Nov 92 15:11:29 GMT
Organization: gte

In article <RTARAZ.92Nov11125627@bigwpi.WPI.EDU>, rtaraz@bigwpi.WPI.EDU (Ramin Taraz) writes:
# #>>>> On 10 Nov 92 15:06:23 GMT, ems@michael.apple.com (E. Michael Smith) said:
# 
[...Deaf guy gets shot for reaching for is deaf i.d.]

# I got a chill going down my back bone after reading this story.
# What would you DO if you shot this poor fellow and then saw his card?

I'd go find out who taught him to advance on a drawn gun and pull out
his card!  

Seriously, if you're teaching a deaf person to lead a normal life, 
there are certain signs (s)he need to understand:

Red face / clenched fists.
Canine fangs
Business end of a gun.

These are all signs that the deaf persons *needs* to understand and
needs to learn to deal with without taking action that might be seen
as threatening.

IE: cupping his hands over his hears (where they can be seen and
are not threatening) and putting a dumb look on his face. And not
advancing!

Then I'd try to learn to live with my shame.

-- 
"25 States allow anyone to buy a gun, strap it on, and walk down the street with
no permit of any kind: some say it's crazy.  However, 4 out of 5 US murders are 
committed in the other half of the country: so who is crazy?"   -  Andrew Ford
gtephx!forda@enuucp.eas.asu.edu  OR  !uunet!samsung!romed!enuucp!gtephx!forda
From: kdlin@advtech.uswest.com (David Lin)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Defense/Combat Questions
Date: 16 Nov 92 16:45:30 GMT
Organization: U S WEST Advanced Technologies

I noticed that I'd posted quite a few questions these days. Guess I'm
still in a curious mood. So two more questions come:

(1) I've read quite a few defense/combat articles wherein the good guys
    mount flash lights on their weapons and go searching for the bad guys.
    I understand that it is very important to see the objects before you
    shoot. However, using a flash light just reveals your position, IMO.
    Even though some gun writers recommend that you put the flash lights
    on  the right side of your body to fool the bad guys. But unless you
    use the flash lights directly on them, they can still see you moving
    around. It seems to me that using a flash light can get you killed
    DEAD. Nevertheless, most combat authority still use flash lights.
    So what am I missing here?

(2) In one of Ayoob's articles, "Be Roll-out Ready for Home Defense", he
    suggests a few things handy for home defense. They include: a 
    bullet-proof vest, flash light, sound magnifier/ear protector, and a
    loaded nylon duty belt ( carrying a gun, mags, cordless phone, etc ).
    In one of the pictures in that article, he looks like a member of the
    police swat team, all out ready for combat/defense. My questions is how 
    far can/do you go? How about tear gas? stink bombs? night vision?
    home-made grenade? Full auto rifle? ( assuming you legally own one )
    
    I know this may fall at the edge of t.p.g. But if we limit our 
    discussion on tactic and legality, maybe our moderator will be
    kind enough to pass them?

Thanks.

David
-- 
 K. David Lin, Ph.D.              | E-mail: kdlin@advtech.uswest.com  
 Communication Services Research  | Defend your life with style! -- Beretta
 U S WEST Advanced Technologies   | Disclaimer: Only personal opinions
From: hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Bad tactical position ( was Psychology in Defense)
Date: 19 Nov 92 15:12:46 GMT
Organization: The Cat Factory

In article <Bxoto5.1Cv@scylax.uucp> scylax!tiglath@uunet.UU.NET writes:

}OK,  Someone tell me.  I scream at the perp "ON THE FLOOR" 
}He says "fxxx you" ,  I yell "DO IT NOW!"  He calls me "you homo." 
}He does not attack me, but he doesn't obey.  Stalemate.  Do I shoot 
}him or not?  Any takers?

This is very situational, of course.  Here's my plan:

When he refuses to cooperate, I cock my gun and inform him: "This gun now
has a 2 oz. trigger pull.  It will go off if I breathe on it.  It's going
to stay that way 'til you lie down."

If he backs off and leaves, I let him go (he's not an immediate threat).
If he takes a step toward me, I shoot. (Anyone crazy enough to advance on
a cocked gun is prima facie a deadly threat).  If he lies down, I decock
the gun and do something to summon help.  Otherwise, we continue to stand
there -- and I give the gun a mild twitch once in a while to keep him
thinking.

Note:  Both my defensive pistols are DA with exposed hammers.  Neither
       has a 2 oz. SA trigger pull. (So I lied. (-:{ )


The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@polymath.tti.com)
Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483
Santa Monica, CA  90405
From: apskato@vax1.mankato.msus.edu
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Bad tactical position ( was Psychology in Defense)
Date: 20 Nov 92 13:46:53 GMT
Organization: Mankato State University

In article <1992Nov19.193842.11646@CERIS.Purdue.EDU>, jheath@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Jim Heath) writes:
# With all due respect to Eric, wouldn't it be best to have your
# attorney present if you have one? 

*blush* Yeah, actually that would be a damn good idea, you should still give
them all the correct information, but council is an outstanding idea.
 
Eric Huber
MSU
LE Program
From: ice@socrates.umd.edu (Fredrik Nyman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Military style .38 ammo misfires
Date: 19 Nov 92 21:05:44 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland University College

kennejs@a.cs.okstate.edu (KENNEDY JAMES SCOT) writes:

#My only problem has been several misfires with PMC "made to military
#specs" (says the camo colored box) 132 gr. FMJ ammo.  All other
#commercial (federal, umc) ammo functions reliably.  I have seen
#something like this before-- A friend has some spanish .38 military
#ammo that misfires in both of his revolvers (both S&W).

I've had a similar problem with my S&W 686; commercial ammo fires
just fine no matter if you use SA or DA, while cheap ($35/250)
spanish surplus ammo won't always fire reliably.  Firing SA helps
a lot for me; you may want to try it as well.  (On most revolvers,
the hammer goes back farther when you shoot SA, so it will strike
the primer harder when you fire the gun -- thanks to Chris Bennet
for this insight :-)

#I have read that military ammo uses extra hard primers.  Could this
#be the reason for the misfires, or is this just a coincidence?
This sounds perfectly reasonable to me; I would imagine that 
military ammo gets handled far more roughly than civilian ammo.
From: hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: What to buy....
Date: 19 Nov 92 15:12:50 GMT
Organization: The Cat Factory

In article <1992Nov14.043630.21903@bbxrbk> bbx!bbxrbk!russ@unmvax.cs.unm.edu (Russ Kepler) writes:

}So, I'm asking folks to name what they think will be banned, assuming
}that a ban is possible and is attempted.  ...

The USAS 12 semi-auto shotgun.  Looks like an M16 on steroids.  Costs
about $1400.  Accepts 10 round box and 20 round drum magazines.

I don't recommend buying one, though.  Except for its looks (which are
plug-ugly, scary or impressive, depending on your point of view) it has
nothing to recommend it.  Ayoob had unkind things to say about the one
someone brought to an LFI course (noted in _Stressfire II_).  Apparently
it was a jam-o-matic, even with factory recommended ammunition, and
shoddily constructed besides. (Internal parts began deforming after
relatively few rounds fired).

It also weighs about 12 lbs, empty.  Not something you want to carry
around if you don't have to.

The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@polymath.tti.com)
Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483
Santa Monica, CA  90405
From: jamaass@bluemoon.use.com (Jeffrey A. Maass)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Browning break-in
Date: 19 Nov 92 21:05:33 GMT
Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024])

keith@scorpio.ic.cmc.ca (Keith de Solla) writes:

# 
# Ok, so I have this new Browning Hi-Power Practical (the 2-tone model)
# and it needs to be broken in.  I also have about 250 rounds of 
# reloads that worked well in my WWII Inglis, but are powerful enough
# to cycle the slide in my new gun.  (124gr bullet with 3.5gr of 
# Bullseye).  Retiring the Inglis to the safe, should I use a weaker
# recoil spring in the new Hi-Power, or pull the bullets and reload
# more powerful loads?

You could go with a lighter spring (Wolff) as long as the slide
goes back into battery dependably. 

When I bought my Hi-Power, it was suggested that I run a couple of
hundred rounds of Norinco 124 gr FMJ through it. These are hot loads,
and will smooth up the cycling in short order (they are also pretty
cheap: around reload prices). After this drill, you might not need
to pull bullets or replace the spring.

# I've been told I need to produce around 1100fps for IPSC in 9mm
# which (according to the books) looks like a minimum of 4.4 grains.
# Comments?
# (I know, I know, REAL IPSC shooters use .45 or .38Super..... :-))

Actually, you need only around 1009 fps for IPSC (125,000 power 
factor). 

You don't need major power factor if all your rounds go into the
A zone!

Jeff Maass                   Amateur Radio: K8ND (@ W8CQK)
Powell OH (NW of Columbus)         Netmail: jamaass@bluemoon.uucp
From: kkirksey@world.std.com (Ken B Kirksey)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Open Carry Holsters
Date: 19 Nov 92 15:09:22 GMT
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA

Since I discovered that NC is an open carry state and talked to the county
sheriff to make sure everything's kosher, I've about decided to start openly
carrying my Glock 17. (See tpg for my question on whether or not this
is a Good Idea (tm)).
 
So, I'm kind of looking around at holsters for the purpose.  My main criteria
is that it be comfortable and that I be able to sit (in the car, at my desk,
etc.) without removing it.  I'm kind of partial right now to the Galco 
Stealth model, which claims to be all of the above and comes in both
fashionable plain and basket weave leather. :)  Anyone out there have any
others I might want to look into or avoid?
 
BTW, is there any functional difference between the basket and plain finishes,
or is it merely asthetics?  
 
 
                             Ken

+----------------------------+------------------------------------------------+
| Ken Kirksey                | "A man cannot be too careful in his choice     |
| kkirksey@world.std.com     |  of enemies."                                  |
| The World, Brookline, MA   |                - Oscar Wilde                   |
From: apskato@vax1.mankato.msus.edu
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Bad tactical position ( was Psychology in Defense)
Date: 19 Nov 92 15:07:31 GMT
Organization: Mankato State University

In article <199211171656.AA28753@cherokee.advtech.uswest.com>, kdlin@advtech.uswest.com (David Lin) writes:
# In article <1992Nov16.112309.1032@email.tuwien.ac.at> holger@vmars.tuwien.ac.at (Holger Reusch (Dipl. Gerhard + Joe)) writes:
# #...
# #IMHO, the best course of action is to leave  a  suspect  a  clear
# #possibility  to  escape.  If I found somebody inside my flat, I'd
# #yell "GET OUT  HERE  OR  I  SHOOT  YOU!  OUT  NOW!",  instead  of
# #"FREEZE!" or something similar.
# 
# One more question on this one. If I do offer the bad guy an option
# to leave and he does leave, what should I tell the cops after all
# is over? Should I tell them the whole truth including that I've offered
# the bad guy an option to leave?

Yes, absolutely tell the officers everything. You don't want to be in a
position where they find out the real story later (like from the suspect if
they arrest him/her) and see that you did were deceptive.  Doesn't look good in
open court either...
 
Eric Huber
Mankato State University
Law Enforcement Program
From: pfloyd@titan.ucc.umass.edu (BlackWing Restorations, Ltd.)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Anti-terrorist rifle...?
Date: 17 Nov 92 02:08:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: nic.Bxu0Kx.94J
Organization: Old Pink, care of the Funny Farm, Chalfont

#
#The other one was more interesting -- it was a .308 caliber gun in one of
#those bullpup-looking stocks, made out of some type of polymer looking
#plastic.  While at first it just looked like one of those cheap Ruger
#conversion bodies, I looked again and it actually looked like some type of
#business-only gun. 
#While I was there another guy asked about it and they guy said that it was
#a .308 caliber anti-terrorist gun.  With the pretty hot optics that were
#mounted on it the price was like $3500 or something like that.  They guy
#was talking about how the SWAT teams and the like that use it prefer the
#.308 over the .223 for longer distance sniper use due to it's ability to
#not fly all over the place after striking a target and it's better ability
#to fly straight with windage. (??)
#Anyone have any idea what the hell kind of gun this could have been?  I
#saw another one sitting in a case that looked about as radical with the 
#somewhat square body except the body seemed to be made of a wood rather than
#a polymer and the price was (with optics) $5500.  Ouch!
#Any ideas?  Both times they were referred to as "Anti-terrorist guns", which
#may mean nothing.


The squarish woodgrain stock one must have been a Walther WA2000. This
is one nasty rifle. Its design is all bullpup, with 6 rounds in the
magazine. It also has an integral bipod and is very accurate out to
1200+ meters. It's usually found in .300 Winchester Magnum, but can
also be used with 7.62x51mm (.308) and 7.5mm Swiss. Personally, my
preference would be the .300WM cartridge, due to its stopping power
and excellent range.

I have no idea on the other one, offhand. Nothing really springs to
mind as to what it could be.

just my 5 7.62mm rounds' worth...

pf


-------------===========**********===========-------------
	       BlackWing Restorations, Ltd.
            Investigations, Personal Security
               and Restorations a specialty

     Can be reached via the following Internet address:
		pfloyd@titan.students.umass.edu

No case to easy, no fee too large, no ammunition expenditure
too gratuitous. no body count too high... call now for an
inexpensive consultation.
From: hhtra@usho72.hou281.chevron.com (T.M.Haddock)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Ontos
Date: 16 Nov 92 23:09:41 GMT
Organization: Chevron

In article <1992Nov13.191621.16562@ultb.isc.rit.edu>, mxb1517@ultb.isc.rit.edu (M.X. Blair) writes:
|> In article <9211121731.AA03799@batcomfs.Eng.Sun.COM> mxb1517@ultb.isc.rit.edu writes: (M.X. Blair) writes:
|> #
|> #    Ontos, supposedly Greek for "The Thing", was supposed to be
|> #    a highly mobile, lightly armoured, and fast vehicle to do
|> #    shoot 'n scoop types of operations.  It was a small tracked
|> #    vehicle which had not 4, but 6 recoilless rifles.  The crew
|> #    had to leave the vehicle to reload :-).  I didn't know they
|> #    used this thing in Vietnam.
                           ^^^^^^^
  I think this was the ONLY place they were used. 

|> #
|> #    How do I know all this?  I had a model of the Ontos when I
|> #    was a kid.
|> 
|> 		Better check your model - It's four, unless there's a variant
|> I haven't heard of.  Got a picture of it in a book of mine.

  Better check your book cause I've got a picture of ME sitting 
  on one and it has 6.  :)

  Of course, the only difference is that 2 have been added/removed
  for whatever reason.

  TRAVIS
From: rjm@wrc.xerox.com (Bob Meyer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Looking for a .308 self-loader
Date: 20 Nov 92 22:33:01 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.

#I'm looking for a .308 (7.62 NATO) self-loader.  I'd prefer
#one with detachable mags.  The only models I've heard of so
#far are HK-91, the HK SR-7 (?) and the LAR-A1.  

I have an HK-91. I bought it used about 16 months ago. I have never had a jam with it. It is at least as accurate as I can shoot- about 2-2.5 inches at 100 yards with military surplus ammo. I am using the built-in peep site.

One disadvantage of the HK91, all of the attachments are expensive. I'll note some typical prices as I go.

Scope mounting is an example. The HK claw mount lists for about $300, although I have had stores tell me they could get it for me at around $150. B-square also makes a scope mount for around $70.

Magazines are typically 20 rounds ($15), and come in steel (heavy), aluminum (light), and plastic(very light). I also have a five round ($15) and a thirty round magazine($25). German military G3 (selective fire version) parts fit, except for some parts near the trigger group, which may not be interchangable. A sniper trigger group is available for about $300.

The gun is heavy, around 9.75 pounds. Recoil is pleasant, no painful kick, just a gentle shove.

You can add an integral bipod ($90) which mounts on the forend, not the barrel. This prevents change of the bullet impact point with the bipod.The bipod brings the weight to about 11 pounds. A carry handle is also available for $27.

The HK91 has a delayed roller action, it isn't gas operated. In principle you can shoot lead bullets without worrying about messing up a gas port (as can happen in a Garand or M1A for example). I haven't tried it yet. The chamber is fluted (something to do with the timing on the delayed roller action, and leaves striations on the cases. The cases are reloadable however. With the surplus ammo I've been shooting it's a bitch to clean. That's my own fault.

If you want to handload you need a case catcher ($29). Cases will be thrown about 30-40 feet directly to the right side with high velocity. If you shoot at a public range, this can get a lot of people pissed off fast (yes, the case would go right down the line of shooters). You may also want a plastic port buffer ($30) to protect cases so they don't get dented on ejection.

As you can tell, this is a systems rifle. There are lots of additions, limited only by your wallet. You can get a collapsible stock ($?). There are books telling how to convert it to full auto ($10). Yes, its illegal, also impractical. Governments pay to have semi-auto mod's done to their G3's so the troops don't waste money (i.e., ammo). A full auto .308 is supposed to be totally uncontrollable. The G3/HK91 is supposed to be the gov't arm for 20-30 nations. 

Bottom line-how do I like it? Accuracy- great, feel-great, weight-too high but then all 308 battle rifles are too heavy, cleaning- god I hate it. Clearly it will last longer than the rocks though. I don't think you can ever wear one out. The quality can't be believed.
From: rboudrie@chpc.org (Rob Boudrie)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Dillon Electronic Scale
Date: 23 Nov 92 21:39:11 GMT
Organization: Center For High Perf. Computing of WPI; Marlboro Ma

In article <20NOV199213402819@mars.lerc.nasa.gov> smpod@mars.lerc.nasa.gov (Stefan) writes:
#Dillon now has an electronic scale for $200 but it's 0.1 gr. resolution
#seems to be a bit low.  Is 0.1 gr typical for electronic scales?
#

This is typical resolution.  Any resolution finer than this would
give a false sense of precision (if you read to hundredths, you would
be frustrated at fluctuations between subsequent readings from the same
powder drop).

I just got one!!!

The first one was DOA - Dillon sent out a second one (they agreed to 
sell me a second one, express shipping (no charge for shipping), and
send UPS to pickup the first one and issue a charge credit when they
recieve it - I could have just sent the other one back and waited, but
I wanted my toy!).

The second one works wonderfully. The measurements match my Dillon balance
beam scale EXACTLY, but it is much easier and quicker to take measurements
with the digtal unit.  Also, you *know* you have the right reading rather
than painstaikingly examine the balance beam to make sure you have it 
"exact".

The scale has an interesting calibration mode - you hold down the CAL
button until it reads "50 (flashing"), then press the 0 key.  The
scale now reads "CAL 50", at which point you put on a 50 gram weight
and wait until it reads "cal F".  I assume this calibrartion sets two 
points on some sort of linear interpolation scale.

No, I'm not returning this one - it will make reloading easier, as well
as making it practical to frequently check the powder measure during a
reloading session.

                                        rob b.
From: miles@ms.uky.edu (Stephen D. Grant)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: AR-15 scope
Date: 15 Nov 92 14:28:12 GMT
Organization: University of Kentucky, USA. -5 GMT

49ers@eb5ts4.EBay.Sun.COM (Renie Maycon) writes:

#Hello Shooters,

#I am looking for a scope for my AR-15, the small colt model designed for
#the AR-15 I am willing to pay up to $120 for a good used one. If there are
#any sellers out there please contact me as soon as possible.

  Dealer cost on a new Colt 4X (for the AR-15) is about $220+. Good luck on   
finding one for $120.