From: mmmirash@midway.ecn.uoknor.edu (Mandar Mukund Mirashi)
Subject: Re: English English versus *American* English
Organization: Engineering Computer Network, University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK, USA
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 19:53:37 GMT

cummings@milton.u.washington.edu (Michael Cummings) writes:


>	Where does one start refuting trash like this?  At the beginning, I
>suppose... :-)

>mmmirash@midway.ecn.uoknor.edu (Mandar Mukund Mirashi) writes:

>>I am just starting a new (perhaps been beaten to death already??) thread....
>>....I am just a newcomer to the US and what struck me immediately was the
>>difference in the written and spoken language. In India, we follow the
>>English English, since IMHO it is the original and  pure form of the
>>language.

>	Hardly.  You wouldn't recogniZe "original" English.  And what makes
>it "pure"?
Because it is the one spoken and conformed to by the original speakers
of the language.


>>Personally I have no grudge against Americans, but
>>dammit, you guys just can't change the language like that! 

>	You mean we were wrong when we made all the changes at the American
>Revision of English Conference?
      
         You mean you had a conference for revising the language???? You
may call me ignorant......but now that I know, this is ultimate proof of
the sacrilege committed.

>>To me, it 
>>amounts to sacrilege! They have dropped letters from words for "convenience"
>>Blasphemy! I can understand words going out of usage, or neologisms coined,
>>etc. but changing the very spelling of words is an impardonable sin! 

>	I suppose you think words have always been spelled as they are now.
>"Spelling" used to be "spellynge," or some such thing.  Was it a sin to
>change that?

Not if it was done by the native speakers of the language....the British.

>>What
>>is even more annoying is how they can be so smug about it. One of my friends
>>submitted his report to his professor in British English.....the professor
>>had the impudence to point out his "spelling mistakes". Preposterous! The
>>fact that America is the world's most powerful nation, does not justify
>>Americans controlling the English language. 

>	Who's controlling the English?  Have we sent in troops to force
>other English-speaking countries to conform to the American dialect?

       No....but you do it quite indirectly. It is time that the corruption of
word spellings stops.

>>Their only claim to the language
>>is that they have learnt it right from their childhood.

>	I.e., we are native speakers.  It is, in that sense, as much _our_
>language as anyone else's.  Language change occurs naturally among its
>speakers, and intent has little to do with it.
  
    Let me repeat....you are NOT native speakers of the language....maybe
some (not all) of your forefathers were....but their predecessors seem to
have contorted it..

>>But that in no way gives me the authority to change the way words are
>>spelt! 

>	What "authority" is needed?  What authority exists?  Anywhere?

     Ha ha ha......try telling that to your high school teacher who used
to correct your spelling mistakes.

>>    The major offenders: (written English)

>	[pap deleted]

>>3. e instead of oe and ae (as in original Latin) - fetus instead of foetus,
>>                         hemoglobin instead of haemoglobin!

>	Obviously, we have gone astray farther back than you think.  We
>should never have given up on Latin!

      Nope.....but the original spellings of words derived from that
language should not be changed.

>>      There are many differences in pronounciation too, but aren't they 
>>present all over the world? However I have met Americans who claim the
>>British accent to be "unfriendly". Obviously, when you encounter an
>>unfamiliar accent you are bound to find it unfriendly! I guess I am
>>most tolerant of all accents, having been exposed to the Amreican,
>>British and Australian accents (primarily)....but in no way can I call
>>them "unfriendly"....and it is unfair to do so.

>	Nice story, but I've never run into an American who has told me
>such a thing.  Don't generaliZe.

     Ok...sorry about that......but I just can't help comparing how most Indians
react when confronted with a foreign accent, and how most Amercians do. When
I talk to most of the people out here....they look at me as if I were E.T.
talking English (in their opinion, even E.T. would have done a better job!)

>>      But I digress......all Americans reading this post...OPEN YOUR
>>EYES...follow the true English and atone for your sins.  The beauty
>>of the English language lies in the fact that words ARE NOT ALWAYS
>>spelt the way they are pronounced. If you go around trimming words
>>to suit your needs, you simply deface this language. What is the
>>next Americanism? knife to nife? enough to enuff? Bunch of idiots!

>	I feel a bit regretful in dignifying this drivel with a response
>since it's such obvious flamebait, but your complete misunderstanding of
>the way language works is an example of one of my biggest peeves.  You
>remind me of a woman in a course I recently took on the history of English.
>Every time we would discuss a change that took place in the language, she
>would ask, "Why did they decide to do that?"  NOBODY DECIDED!  It JUST
>HAPPENS!  You seem to think that we Americans got together and decided to
>change the Language becaus we're stupid and bent on vandalizing "pure"
>English.  It's really a bit more complex than that.  Trust me on this one.

        Yes...nobody decided...but nobody prevented the changes either! With
the passage of time more and more Americans started accepting the "new"
spellings.......this could have been avoided, by following standard English
English.

>>      Just a passing thought.....written English is sometimes so remarkably
>>different from its  spoken counterpart that "fish" can be spelt as
>>"ghoti" (f = gh, as in enough; o = i, as in women; sh = ti, as in partial).
>>This is what makes English so unique! So lay off Americans!

>	Very clever.  I imagine most of us have heard this one a hundred
>thousand times or so.  I read the GHOTI thing in a comic book when I was
>about 7 (my, wasn't that petty of me :-).

I did not mean to insult your intelligence....I just brought up the example
to point out the charm of the language.

Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA