From: verbit@brauer.harvard.edu (Mikhail S. Verbitsky)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Communism as a Russian guilt (racist concepti
Date: 23 Dec 92 23:21:20 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc3.1992Dec23.182121.18805
Organization: Sozialistische Patienten Kollektiv


 kosinov@ceg.uiuc.edu (Greg Kosinovsky) writes: (>>> and >)
 me (M. Verbitsky) >
>>> However, Jewish nationalists I had in mind were people
>>>like the great Jewish poet Bialik, who was not guilty of any Russophobia, and
>>>yet not published, while anti-Semites like "derevenschiky" had no problems
>>>whatsoever.

>>	Both assertions are wrong; derevenshchiks have had much
>>	more problems with censure than, say, Anatolii Rybakov.
>>	And I read Byalik in Bryusov's translation, in Soviet
>>	book printed circa 1970.
> I have no idea what Rybakov has to do with the question of Jewish books in
>Brezhnev era. I am also very happy to find out that there was an official
>printing of Byalik (I only saw hand-typed versions that "made the rounds"),
>however, it is an exceptin that proves the rule.

	Well, Rybakov wrote "Tyazhelyi pesok", haven't he?

	I forgot to correct one more mistake: Byalik was not
	exactly a nationalist. If he were not a Jew, "real Jews"
	like you surely should call him antisemite. Yeech.

>>	Also wrong: Kvitko, Markish were pretty well available.
>>	And much more. How was the guy who wrote "Zelionaya Kareta"
>>	called? BTW, Aleksandr Kanevskii is a very good writer.
>>	Arkadii L'vov also got published before he emigrated.
>>	Not bad for 0.8%)
> What was the year of the publication of Markish that you saw? I would guess
>it would be around the time of the "Thaw" (after all, he was "reabilitirovan").
>How much is "much more"? Now some questions, in part, to lift my own ignorance?
>What is Zelenaya Kareta about? Were Kanevskii and L'vov Jewish writers, or
>Russian (or Russian-Soviet) writers who were Jews? When did they write? When
>Were they published?

	Kanevskii is a great Latvian (or Lithuanian) Jewish
	author. He writes semi-surreal (like Altist Danilov)
	prose about Jewish life in Baltics, before and after
	Soviets. L'vov is Soviet author who wrote about
	Odessa Jews, and his novel Dvor is quite good.
	He emigrated, and live in America since.
	
	Naturally, as Yiddish is dead language in USSR,
	they used Russian. Note that Jews were assimilated
	on big part and (like Pasternak and Galich)
	became great Russian writers.

> Even if answers to all those questions go against my thesis, how do they
>establish that it's "Not bad for .8% ?

	Well, I meant that most Jewish writers
	in Russia were completely assimilated (Galich etc). 
	And it is even strange that there are so much 
	non-assimilated Jewish writers, like Kvitko.
	The reason is very simple: national cultures
	in Russia were heavily promoted. My mother (being avid 
	Zionist :) hold some collection of Soviet Jewish Comittee
	writers (Kvitko etc) in Russian translations,
	and it was pretty lame. The *real* Jews
	like Utkin and Pasternak and Galich
	and Karabchievskii wrote tons
	better than these masquerade "national Jews"...


> That could be true, although there are worthy competitors to that title even
>among contemporary Yiddish writers (Singer, for instance), but does that, in 
>fact, make him "A-Z of Jewish Literature"?

	Singer is Zionist, and openly anti-Communist.
	This made him no less impossible to come out
	in SU than, say, Ezra Paund (as Zionism
	was officially equal to facsism).


> If the statement of mine that you quoted is so untrue and even hypocritical,
>then what are you doing in America?
> Also, congradulations! You are not only the first Jew, but the first
>non anti-Semite I ever heard saying that Jewish culture wasn't suppressed in

	Well, in America I live mostly because there
	are currently more Russian mathematicians
	than in Russia... Otherwise, I like Brezhnev Russia
	*much* more - it was so entertaining.

	On the question of what was and was not suppressed...
	I wrote about nationalists, not about culture. 
	Real culture is not national, and only prospers
	from persecutions. So Jewish culture could
	only benefit from suppressors. Anyway, I cannot
	remember someone who was jailed for writing
	a Jewish novel or a Jewish symphony, while
	the vocalist from the rock-group Trybnyi Zov was 
	jailed for writing Baptist songs. And a poet
	Zabolotsky - for writing Russian poetry.
	I am not very happy to support Borodin's
	statements (as I believe that he is antisemite)
	but any sane person should agree here.


>>	Yes, Begun was a pretty swell guy (like Shefarevich).
>>	Anyway, they both were oppressed, at least Begun claimed
>>	that he is persecuted by KGB. About Shafarevich you know.

> Shafarevich was oppressed for dissident activities (such as supporting
>Sakharov and Solzhenitzin). 

	Zionists like Shcharansky were oppressed for Zionism,
	which was a dissident activity for Soviet state.
	Solzhenitsyn, Russian nationalist, was oppressed
	for Russian nationalist writings. Some very
	honourable Moscow Jews were studying Torah
	for years without much persecution. 

>His Russian xenophobic sentiments didn't become known
>untill fairly recently, 

	That's wrong - I always knew that he's antisemite.


>>	The saying "I was raped more heavily that thou"
>>	is of extremely bad tone. Contemporary Russian
>>	writers who lived outside of USSR were banned,
>>	as were Jewish ones; dissidents too. All others
>>	were tolerated as far as their loyality went.
>>	Monarchists and anticommunistic nationalists
>>	(as, say, neo-Nazi) were considered most disloyal,
>>	and otkazniks - less. Period.

>>	Misha.


> 1) "I was raped more heavily than thou" is a normal statement, if it happens to
>be true.
> 2) This whole discussion started when I took issue with you telling to some
>Balt that he was "raped less than the Russians".

	But I'm *not* Russian! I am a Jew and free to make
	such statements :)

	Misha.