From: umlee182@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Siu-fung Lee)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mecha
Subject: Re: Btech to Rifts
Date: 22 Jan 93 18:49:01 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada

In <1993Jan20.140109.13460@rick.dgbt.doc.ca> jhan@debra.dgbt.doc.ca (Jerry Han) writes:

>For a given power required, no.  (Consider that to generate a particle
>beam you have to have a particle accelerator- the smallest ones to date
>are about the size of a large bookshelf.  (If memory serves.)

With low power, particle beams are no better than railguns, but P beams by the time Robotech or Rifts
comes around, it is better.  Even a CHEAP Northern Gun particle beam rifle (not cannon) does D4*10 MD
per shot.  The SAMAS C-40r (considered pretty good for a railgun) does the SAME damage per *burst* (not
per single round).  You add a hopper for the PB rifle (like the ammo drum on a railgun), and you do WAY
more damage.  Railguns are like cars... e-weapons like planes.  In Rifts, railguns are near the limit
of their tech, while for some reason e-weapons are not much better.

>I agree that bionics and cyberware can be dehumanizing, but if you've lost
>an arm, what choice do you have? 

Well, I was just saying Robotech has equal (greater in my mind) tech as Rifts, so in either world if
you lost an arm, get an artificial one.  Just Robotech does not emphasize on cybernetics, they're the
best at mechs.

>As well, mechs are all fine and dandy, but sometimes you need something
>that's a little more discrete, and a lot less observable.  A small SMG
>popping out from your arm is discrete, a 40ft Mecha pounding through the
>wall isn't!  (;-)

Hell, that's what Cyclones are for.  Anyhow, the shadow fighters would fly in so fast, never get
detected, and nuke a place before anyone would realize it.

>It's that protocutlure, exactly!  I'm not denying that protoculture gives
>Robotech mechs an advantage-> but once you get outside of protoculture,
>things flop around.  Computers, fusion reactors, laser weaponry, doesn't
>depend on protoculture.  (The Rifts people have fusion reactors the size
>of a small 80486 computer!)

Yeah, but all Robotech uses fusion power as a backup!  Rifts NORMALLY uses atomic power... fusion is
still considered "leading edge".  Check the SAMAS, or any of those Rifts mechs.  Even in one of the
mechanical skills it states something like "how to use, install, etc. ATOMIC power systems."  Last time
I checked atomic is fission, not fusion!  So fusion is rare, rare, rare.  There's no examples in the book
that you can show me that Rifts is HIGHER tech than Robotech.  By that alone, it shows Rifts is
underpowered compared to Robotech.

So, altho you might not be convinced that Robotech is higher tech than Rifts (as I believe), you
should now understand that the 2 worlds have similar tech levels, and not this great tech advantage
Rifts has (unless you are one of those who still uses Palladium's modern wpn proficiency rules, or
thinks the missile countering rule makes sense).

By that, you should see why I did the double damage and double armour policy for Robotech.

Some examples...
The MAC II's 400 mm cannon does 2D6*10 MD.  Any fool would realize that for SOME INSANE REASON a
Glitter Boy does 50% MORE damage with a small flechette round.  Unless you still believe that Rifts has
this insane tech, which there is no sign of (other than the Conversion book telling you so), doubling
the damage for the *400 mm* cannon should not be "unrealistic".  "Hell, it only fires 10 miles... it
must be that LOW tech Robotech stuff.  Why if Rifts had something like that it would fire 1000 miles."

No, not likely.  In fact NO weapon in Rifts comes even close.  This is a 400 mm round!  It does LESS
damage than a slug fired from a 10 foot mech!  This basically means Rifts tech is 5 to 10 times better than
Robotech's tech level.  Even die hards must think twice before obeying Palladium's twisted thinking.

And how 'bout those PBC's on the Excaliber?  Those SMALL cannons... hell they only do max 75 MD,
roughly two shots from a plasma or PB rifle.  A rifle!  A 3 to 5 foot long rifle!  And it does HALF the
damage of a 20 to 30 ft PB *cannon* on the Excal.  Yeah right!  These puppies should do more damage
than the GB, but oh no, even if I double the damage, I still do 20% less damage!  Boy, those atomic
reactors must be using something must HIGHER grade than Plutonium to get out all this reactor output! 
Especially considering the output power of protoculture?  Even if you don't think the armour is as
good, the weapons should do incredible amounts of damage compared to Rifts, but they don't....

And the GU-XX... REF tech (at least equiv. to Rifts)... does only D4*10 per LONG BURST.  A Rifts
*rifle* can do that damage IN A SINGLE SHOT.  Rifts should have teleporting tech, anti-matter weapons,
Gundams and Galaxy Class Starships since there weapons can do SO much more damage.  Understand?  A
hand-held rifle used by a child can do equal or more damage than a *20 to 30 ft* long gunpod!  I don't
care how much better you consider Rifts... THERE IS NO WAY Robotech stuff is that outmatched.
This is one of the reasons why I wanted to *quadruple* armour and weapons values for Robotech stuff in
Rifts.

But, I knew Palladium worshippers would not comprehend that the two worlds are equal tech, and that
Palladium ON PURPOSE gave higher MDC ratings for Rifts to correct the problem of the Cyclone in Invid
(which is a big problem)... so I only doubled Robotech stuff.

And speaking of Cyclones, they are the only thing that does NOT get to do double damage with there
weapons.  And the armour is only 50% more, not 100%.  In my Invid campaign, I lowered the Cyclone's MDC
to 150.  Actually the Cyclone only deserves about 100 MDC, but my players didn't want to lose that much
armour, and so for playability, it became 150 (so in my game Cyclones would double armour value in
Rifts... to 300 MDC).

And I wouldn't allow players to add hundreds of MDC with the higher Rifts tech armour (haha).  Rifts
NORMAL armour is NO better than Robotech.  Yes, superdense is better, but you'd never use superdense on
big mechs... (and there are many logical reasons why)

If you have an open mind, you should see my points...
Someone must not like conforming to Palladium's stupidity...

Someone?
:/