HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jmsmith@eos.ncsu.edu (JEFFREY MARTIN SMITH)
Subject: Re: (SPOILER) Possible watch paradox in TA2
Originator: jmsmith@c00803-247dan.eos.ncsu.edu
Keywords: does anybody really read these keywords?
Reply-To: jmsmith@eos.ncsu.edu (JEFFREY MARTIN SMITH)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 14:43:35 GMT


In article <willdye.717564578@helios>, willdye@helios.unl.edu (Will Dye) writes:
|>Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
|>Path: taco!gatech!darwin.sura.net!wupost!unlinfo.unl.edu!willdye
|>From: willdye@helios.unl.edu (Will Dye)
|>Subject: (SPOILER) Possible watch paradox in TA2
|>Message-ID: <willdye.717564578@helios>
|>Summary: possible paradox in TA2, concerning the pocket watch
|>Keywords: does anybody really read these keywords?
|>Sender: news@unlinfo.unl.edu
|>Nntp-Posting-Host: helios.unl.edu
|>Organization: University of Nebraska - Lincoln
|>Date: Sat, 26 Sep 92 23:29:38 GMT+5:00
|>Lines: 30
|>
|>
|>Spoiler alert:  Don't read this until you've seen the new Star Trek 
|>episode "Time's Arrow, Part 2".
|>
|>Maybe I missed something, but did the following happen?
|>
|>1.  In the 24th century, they find a watch dated at 500 years old in a mine.
|>2.  Clements travels from 19th century to 24th, and retrieves his watch.
|>3.  Clements travels back to 19th century, and places the watch in the mine.
|>
|>But the watch is 500 years old when Clements retrieves it.  It will now be 
|>1000 years old when they find it in the 24th century.  The loop continues, 
|>with the watch getting 500 years older each loop.  
|>
|>Either:
|>
|>1. The watch stops aging at 500 years.
|>2. Each time loop is a separate universe (which puts a dent in the 
|>   "This has to happen for history to fulfill itself" philosophy).
|>3. Clements found his un-aged watch and left it (presumably keeping the 
|>   aged one).  Maybe this happened and I missed it.

     I do believe that when he arrived back in the 19th century he saw his 
     watch that he had left before going and started to take it but put it 
     back down. 

|>4. They messed up.
|>
|>Another minor gripe.  They're too utopian again.  Curing poverty (if 
|>possible, since poverty is relative) won't cure all the social ills they 
|>say it will.   It's starting to sound like that awful "We don't have 
|>greed or money anymore" utopian garbage from the cryonics episode.
|>...just a personal opinion....
|>
|>--Will
|>
-- 
Romana: "I thought you said we were coming here for May Week?"
Doctor: "I did, May Week's in June."
                                 --Shada and The Five Doctors--
Jeffrey Smith     -<KD4AYH>-       jmsmith@eos.ncsu.edu
From: crl0195@hertz.njit.edu (Curt R Lindmark)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: problems with Times' Arrow prt. 2
Date: 1 Oct 92 14:04:07 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <1992Sep30.223922.1@vaxb.acs.unt.edu> ij59@vaxb.acs.unt.edu writes:
>In article <1992Sep27.140409.477@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, ehamrick@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Eric N Hamrick) writes:
>>>Actually, if you want to take it further, they saw the possibility
>>>of an extended visit, and Picard decided to turn all these fine
>>>StarFleet officers into actors in a production of Shakespeare
>>>for the locals to raise the funds needed to build a temporal-shift
>>>device... :)
>>>
>>      Heck, they have worlds greatest card-shark in the group,Data, so why
>>  worry about a play? :)
>> 
>>   -Eric
>
>Hey...you're right!  Data was rich!  The whole business about the rent
>was totally unecessary the second time.  That was just a straight screw-up
>in the script.

Of course, the E crew hadn't *found* Data yet, and when they did and returned
to their hidey-hole, they didn't want to let on to the landlady what was going
on.  One thing I found hilarious was Troi flipping the book over and being
as nonchalant as she could manage.

O========|>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<|========0
 Curt R Lindmark      crl0195@hertz.njit.edu         Defender from ages past

Picard: "Mr. Worf, fire at will."
Worf: "With pleasure, sir." (draws hand phaser, takes aim)
Riker: "Oh no, not again" (ducks for cover)

Disclaimer: NJIT is responsible for nothing I don't say which isn't mine.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: dnadams@nyx.cs.du.edu (Dean Adams)
Subject: Re: Promos for: MAN OF THE PEOPLE (#229)
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 92 14:25:12 GMT

In article <1992Sep27.131352.19356@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> kanamori@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Atsushi Kanamori) writes:
>In article <1992Sep27.101050.17728@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> dnadams@nyx.cs.du.edu (Dean Adams) writes:
>>Promos for the next new ST:TNG episode: "Man of the People" (#229) were 
>>released today.  The actual program will air starting on Saturday, October
>>3rd.  Following this will be the new episodes:  Relics, Schisms, Q-Me...
>>
>>
>>  [ In 10-Forward: Troi with gray hair, wearing very revealing dress ]
>>                                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>Still a one-track mind... :-)
>

I am certainly not complaining! :-> 

I'm sure those four words don't do it justice though :)
Suffice it to say, a special Cleavage-Cam shot is not
required for this particular frock...<heh>

-{ DA }-

Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: W.O. Khan <Charles_Laine@CCIS.BAYLOR.EDU>
Subject: Re: Possible mistake in Realm of Fear  (maybe some spoilers)
Organization: Baylor University
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1a2
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 20:00:21 GMT
X-Posted-From: lainec.baylor.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

Oh what a horrible shame.  I guess they should take TNG off the air now.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: rhballan@eos.ncsu.edu (ROBERT HAMI BALLANTINE)
Subject: Re: Lynch's Spoiler Review:  "Time's Arrow, Part II"
Originator: rhballan@c00506-119rd.eos.ncsu.edu
Keywords: TNG, Data, head, time-loops
Reply-To: rhballan@eos.ncsu.edu (ROBERT HAMI BALLANTINE)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 18:15:20 GMT


In article <1992Sep28.192127.1257@cs.sfu.ca>, kenward@cs.sfu.ca (Kenward Chin) writes:

|> 
|> In article <1992Sep28.172727.9285@ncsu.edu> rhballan@eos.ncsu.edu (ROBERT HAMI BALLANTINE) writes:
|> >
|> >Tim Lynch writes:
|> >
|> >[lots of stuff deleted]
|> >
|> 
|> 
|> 
|> 
|> 
|> >>...works out to be:  Picard and company find signs of aliens in the 1890s, 
|> >>assume they're hostile, attack them when they find them in the past, and 
|> >>eventually destroy their base in the 24th century.  We're never given any 
|> >
|> >Picard and company don't assume that the aliens are hostle.  They
|> >find out that they are killing humans before they attack them.
|> >And they didn't want the aliens to change history in some way.
|> 				    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
|> >Thats good enough reason for me.
|> >
|> >...
|> >
|> >Rob
|> 
|> Hm.  I don't know why I've never thought of this before, when considering
|> time travel stories, but there is a fundamental problem, here isn't there?
|> It is just that the aliens in Earth's past *cannot* change history - they
|> *are* history.  Like comments are addressed to the problem of Picard et al.
|> wondering in the conference room whether these aliens are mounting some
|> sort of attack on human history - if they were, it had already happened, and
|> hence there was no need for concern.  It's all happened already, everything's
|> ok, why worry about it?
|>
The actions of the crew of the Enterprise are also history.  If they hadn't gone
back in time and killed the aliens and all that stuff, they would have changed 
history.

 
|> The only explanation I can think of, and it was never explicitly addressed
|> (as far as I could tell), was that the portal to the past did *not* allow
|> the aliens to choose the period of history they wished to return to - it
|> only allowed them to go back in time by a discrete, specific amount of time.
|> Thus the need to "hurry" into the past to stop the aliens, because by allowing
|> say 2 hours to pass on the Enterprise, that would give the aliens who had
|> just gone back into time 2 hours to mess up history....
|> 

Possible...
|> Wow, my mind's gone pretzel.  See ya.
|> 
|> Kenward Chin
|> -- 
|> Disclaimer: Since transmission of this article is by imperfect methods, there
|> 	   may well be discrepancies between what is above and what was
|> 	   intended.  Therefore, please edit this article to read as you wish.
|> 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: dgc6770@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Subject: Re: Time's Arrow Paradox [spoilers]
Reply-To: dgc6770@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 20:46:45 GMT

In article <1992Sep27.030335.26463@sol.UVic.CA>, jcowling@ophelia.UVic.CA (Scowling Jim Cowling) writes:
>
>I just thought of something:  Twain's watch should not exist in the 24th Century
>as it would be infinitely old. 

	Actually, there is a simple explanation.  The watch which is left in
the cave is the one Twain had BEFORE the entire incident.  He found it in the
cave just after the medics had removed Guinan.  This watch then survives for
500 years until he finds it again while on the Enterprise.  The only paradox is
that, for a while, he had two identical watches which were of different ages.

		Cor
From: Peter_A_David@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Reason why TNG is downhilling
Date: Fri,  2 Oct 92 14:42:52 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
  <16873142E1.YANJUNA@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu>

I don't know if "personal conflict" would be such a bad thing for STTNG.
I've always thought that one of the show's problems is that everyone gets
along with each other so well.  As opposed to, say, McCoy vs. Spock.
Sure it became cliched after a while...but at least it was SOMEthing.
Upping the level of conflict between the characters might go a long way
towards giving them some depth.

And all stories...even those exploring other worlds...should still be
character-driven.  The crew is our POV, our window into the Federation,
and if there's not some sort of personal involvement (conflict, if you
will) on their part, it hampers our ability to get into the story.

On the other hand, they've announced that they're actually cutting back
on potential conflict points.  For example, the Riker/Troi history is
going to be completely swept under the rug, so there goes that potential
interaction.

The 5th season, by the way, was unquestionably better than the 1st and
2nd.  But it still hasn't approached the 3rd season.  Some people are
saying that it's because Roddenberry is gone, but GR wasn't all that
involved with the show by 3rd season because of his already-flagging
health.  

PAD
From: jblum@hamlet.umd.edu (Hi ho -- Kermit the Frog here...)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Time's Arrow Part II *NO SPOILERS*
Date: 2 Oct 92 21:05:23 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park

Quick credit check.  Did the same people actually write Time's Arrow parts
1 and 2?  Or was this, like "Unification" or "Doctor Who: The Dalek
Masterplan", one of those you-write-the-first-half-I'll-write-the-last-
half-and-we'll-pray-they-meet-in-the-middle deals?
From: whelan@sbphy.physics.ucsb.edu (John T. whelan)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Defense of Time's Arrow II
Date: 28 Sep 92 23:21:15 GMT

es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes:
>>Here be spoilers:

>O'Brien, having his fingers continuously on the transporter so
>that he can have an instantaneous response time, locks onto and
>transports up Picard in less time than it takes the photon
>torpedos to reach the planet.

>	It was just a cheap ending.

	It was a TOS ending.  (Kirk: "Detonate and energize.  No,
wait--" BOOM!!!)*  Between this and the kill-the-computer-with-a=
paradox plan from "I, Borg", I'm beginning to wonder if Riker
gave Picard his books on Enterprise history...
					John Whelan
*Taken from a comedy routine whose source escapes me.
--
	"Do you know what Freud said about dreams of flying?
	 It means you're really dreaming about having sex."
	"Indeed?  Tell me then, what does it mean when
	 you dream about having sex?"  -- Sandman #15
From: kuchar@buast7.bu.edu (Tom Kuchar)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Realm of Fear: space worms ???
Date: 6 Oct 92 15:50:12 GMT
Organization: Astronomy Department, Boston University, Boston, MA, USA

In article <1992Oct6.142148.22610@ra.msstate.edu> rat1@me1.MsState.Edu (Robert Thompson) writes:
>
>And one more thought (flame me hard if I missed this):
>
>Where in the hell were they going?  Why did they transport
>at all?  Surely Starfleet escape pods are a more comfortable
>environment to escape to than a plasma stream coming off a 
>red giant...
>

I don't think they were escaping to anywhere.  When the plasma
container ruptured on board the Yosemite, the crew were infected
by the microbes in the plasma, much like Barclay was.  The commander
of the Yosemite was trying to use the adjusted biofilter on the
transporter to remove them (unsuccessfully) from the crew.

I thought this was explained in the episode.








-- 
Tom Kuchar			  
kuchar@buast7.bu.edu		  -or-                      kuchar@plh.af.mil
Department of Astronomy                              Phillips Laboratory/GPOB
Boston Univerity		                                  Hanscom AFB
From: cegtitd@prism.gatech.EDU (Tim Dodd)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Realm of Fear: space worms ???
Date: 6 Oct 92 14:02:22 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

In article <1aqainINN2j3@agate.berkeley.edu> ph111-bx@violet.berkeley.edu (;;;;7202) writes:
>I suppose these might be spoilers
>
>Could someone please explain to me why the people stuck in
>the transporter looked like those sand worms from Dune, and
>how it was so easy and "should've known that" obvious to see
>the connection afterwards?  To me, it still makes no sense.

Yeah:  Barclay still looked like Barclay, but these people all looked
like mutated intestinal parasites!  Also, how come they told Barclay
that he couldn't stay dematerialized for more than 30-40 seconds or
they would lose his signal, but they were able to recover the Yosemite's
crew members after at least 3-4 DAYS!  For that matter, if you're
disassembled at the molecular level, how is it possible to "experience"
anything during transport (much less grab things!)?  And, before I'm
finished, who was operating the transporter when the 4 Yosemite crew
members beamed out?

Tim

-- 
"I have since learned that words are only as valid as the mind that chooses
them.  To choose too carefully is to become pedantic, closing the imagination to
wider visions, yet to err the other way is to invite anarchy into one's mind."
   -- Christopher Priest, _The Affirmation_
From: neal.pritchard@f605.n712.z3.fido.zeta.org.au (Neal Pritchard)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Borg as Humans (Huma
Date: 30 Sep 92 09:10:14 GMT
Organization: Fidonet. Gate admin is fido@socs.uts.edu.au

Original to: Dfrancis@Tronsbox.Xei.Co
DF>|Why is it that ALL Borgs look human.  I understand that to be a Borg it
wou
DF>|make sense that a species would need to be humanoid, but
DF>why aren't any of the
DF>|Borg Klingons, Romulan, Ferengi, or an other for that matter?  It was
also
DF>|mentioned earlier about the Federation continually running into the
Borg.
DF>|What about the Romulans or Klingons fighting the Borg?  Hmmm, strange!

DF>If you'll recall, Dr. Crusher noted that Picard's DNA was being
DF>altered by the Borg implants.

DF>My guess is that when you get plugged in, they genetically alter
DF>you to their norm.

In The Best Of Both Worlds, the away team finds a nursery where newly
born BORG are being fitted with cybernetic implants. This would lead me
to conclude that they are born normal and humanoid, but immediately
start undergoing implant surgery. Those who reject the implants don't
make it.

Neal Pritchard
___
 X SLMR 2.1a X On a clear disk you can seek forever

--- Maximus 2.00
 * Origin: THE WHITE LODGE (3:712/605)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: defense of time's arr
From: njm@vax1.mankato.msus.edu
Date: 29 Sep 92 17:15:21 -0600
Distribution: rec
Organization: Mankato State University

In article <1992Sep29.170737.26593@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>, kanamori@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Atsushi Kanamori) writes:
> 
> In article <1992Sep28.3208.11447@dosgate> "bernie wong" <bernie.wong@canrem.com>
>  writes:
>>
>>I totally agree.  I say ENJOY the show and not get so caught up in the
>>technicalities.  People like Atsushu (sp?) spoil the show for THEMSELVES
>>if they constantly hate them.  
> 
> The people who spoil the show are the producers, who stifle innovation 
> with their script guidelines, present rehash after rehash as "new" episodes,
> endorse atrocities like "Cost of Living", give recurring status to awful 
> characters like Alexander and Lwaxana, eschew long-term character development 
> and continuity in exchange for gimmicks, and reduce human issues to
> forced, sledge-hammer archetypes rather than subtlely crafted, 
> three-dimensional characters that come alive by their own verisimilitude.
> 
> "Enjoying a show" is not something to do by default. A show must earn it
> (as starters, by avoiding each of the points above).
> 
>    

   CHALK ONE UP FOR ATSUSHI!







>                        .        
>  :....: : .  ::.: .  ..: :    ..     : :    .:   :.:
> :::::::.:::::::::::.:::::: :?.:::::..::::.:.:: :.:::: :
> -------------------------- -------------------.------ ------------------------
> Kanamori's Episode Ratings: (last episode rated: "Time's Arrow Part II")
>   "I keep telling you, there *is* no plot." -- Guinan.
 


 

From: boell@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Donald P Boell)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 22:14:18 GMT
Subject: Re: PICARD/RIKER in White House?
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current

I'd rather see Data and Guinan in 92!

************************************************
* Donald Boell - Hewlett Packard               *
*                                              *
* When you're chewing on life's gristle        *
* Don't grumble, give a whistle - Monty Python *
*                                 Life of Brian*
************************************************
From: ccoprdj@prism.gatech.EDU (Jorge Diaz)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Data+Riker+Troi = Spock
Date: 5 Oct 92 06:03:28 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

In article <1992Oct4.231636.793@cc-mac.nbn.com> dv@cc-mac.nbn.com (David Vezie) writes:

*>captain		-- Picard (1st officer has fistfights, not captain)
*>first officer		-- Riker (or maybe Kirk, hmm...)
*>chief science officer	-- Data
*>chief medical officer	-- Crusher
*>chief engineer		-- Scotty
*>chief of security	-- Yar
*>tactical officer	-- Worf
*>helm			-- Ro
*>transport chief	-- O'Brien
*>assistant doctor	-- McCoy (under Crusher for interesting conflicts)
*>occasional ambasador	-- Spock
*>ship's shrink		-- Troi

My, just a little TNG-biased, aren't we? ;-)

McCoy an assistant UNDER Crusher???  Dream on!  We was a better
doctor than she'll ever be.  Even Pulaski was a better doctor
than Crusher.  (all IMHO, of course)


-- 
Jorge Diaz                       | "I want you to remember, Clark... in all
Georgia Institute of Technology  |  the years to come, in your most private
Office of Information Technology |  moments...my hand at your throat.  I want
ccoprdj@prism.gatech.edu         |  you to remember the one man who beat you."
From: sasha@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (David A. Tumarkin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: RE: Three Questions
Date: 28 Sep 92 23:18:32 GMT
Organization: Cybernet BBS, Boca Raton, Florida

mcohen@vax.clarku.edu writes:

> In a previous article, kratnam@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Kapila Ratnam) wrot
> > 
> >1.  Who is Christina Peralta ?
> > 
> >2.  In which episode(s) of ST:TNG did she appear ?
> > 
> >3.  Why is she in the October 1992 issue of Playboy ?
> > 
> Hmmm...name not found in the (hypercard) episode guide.  Must have had a very
> small role.  But why do I get the feeling Playboy sales could double just 
> because of this post?

Actually, if memory serves me, she was the Deltan in ST: The Motion 
Picture.  Probably wrong though.


                                        - Sasha

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Though the fruits of crime bear bitter seaweed, the sea cucumbers of 
 crime makes a killer salad."
                                      - Dr. Calamari in the DC/Marvel
                                        Crossover with Suicide Squid
                                        and Archangler in THE DEVIL,
                                        THE ANGEL, AND THE DEEP BLUE
                                        SEA
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: rawdon@colby.cs.wisc.edu (Michael Rawdon)
Subject: Re: Second Season
Reply-To: rawdon@colby.cs.wisc.edu
Organization: University of Wisconsin Computer Sciences Dept., Madison, WI
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 20:37:16 GMT

In <1992Sep24.174056.20334@ecst.csuchico.edu> chittend@ecst.csuchico.edu (Robert R. Chittenden) writes:
>    The question why the second season does not have 26 
>episodes?

>    The answer is that in 1988 their was a writer's strike
>in which the producers Star Trek: The Next Generation honored. 
>It delay the start of the second season and they only produced 
>22 episodes that season.

I personally regard this truncation as a sort of mercy killing, given the
quality of the second season...

-- 
Michael Rawdon				 rawdon@colby.cs.wisc.edu
University of Wisconsin Computer Sciences Department, Madison, WI

"I think that (one of) TNG's problems is that it considers lacking action,
 humor and character interplay to be interchangable with cerebral (just like
 it often considers civility and lack of conflict interchangable with
 friendship)."
			- Atsushi Kanamori on rec.arts.startrek, 7 July 1991
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: jzarin@nyx.cs.du.edu (Jason Zarin)
Subject: Realm of Fear Top 10 List!!
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix @ U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 04:58:18 GMT

I got a real good response for my last list, so here is another one!
No real spoilers, but what the heck.

Top Ten Other Reasons Barkley is Stressed Out
---------------------------------------------

10. Thought he saw Elvis in the transporter.

 9. Heard a rumor of an upcoming four-hour Trek miniseries -- "Return to
    the Royale."

 8. Holodeck stuck in Disco Fever simulation again.

 7. New Chief Engineer to be Mr. T from the A-Team.

 6. Due to Federation-wide recession, Enterprise refitted for a five year
    mission to balance the budget.  Barkley transferred to accounting.
    No more cool techie adventures!

 5. Poker group keeps using Barkley as an easy mark.

 4. Riker to show his boring vacation slides from his last leave on Raisa
    again.

 3. Encounter with super-intelligence has left residual effects.  Barkley
    seems to be spending a lot of free time playing Tetris.

 2. Promised he'd babysit Alexander next weekend.

 1. Two words -- "President Quayle!"
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jason Zarin         zarin@econ.sccnet.ucla.edu
To an economist, real life is just a special case.
Go Bruins!!!
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current