HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: CXMP@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA (CXMP000)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Time's Arrow Paradox [spoilers]
Date: 1 Oct 92 03:52:01 GMT
Organization: McGill University

In article <1992Sep30.001158.4690@nmsu.edu> mwalls@nmsu.edu (Commander Keen) writes:
>Here's a slight twist on your question that has been bugging me ever
>since I saw the show...
>
>Ok, here's how I understand it.  Twain lost his watch during the
>opening of the portal.  On the Big E, he picks up his watch that was
>left.  When he's back in the 19th century, he starts to take his watch
>that he dropped.  Now my question:
>
>WHAT IF???
>What if he had taken the watch?  That would mean that he would have 2
>watches, right?  But wait...if he took the watch, it wouldn't have
>been found on the Big E in the 24th century so he wouldn't have 2
>watches, only one.
>So, would the other watch disappear at the instant that he took it?

I suppose the answer is the following:

When Harlan Ellison first came up with the idea of elastic time for the
sake of "The City on the Edge of Forever", he suggested that time tends
to right itself, i.e. that insignificant changes can be made to the
past without changing the future.  Thus Twain can hold on to his watch
for as long as he likes because (and this does violate free will) it's
still expected that he will put the watch down.  On the other hand, if
he smashed his watch then the watch in his pocket will also be smashed!
Compare this to the episode "Time Squared" in which the alternate
Picard doesn't disappear until Picard figures out how to save the ship.

EXCEPT why didn't the alternate Tasha Yar disappear when time was fixed?
Wny do Kirk, Spock, Bones, Scotty and Uhura still exist in "CotEoF"?
Well, actually, in the latter case, they were probably protected by the
Guardian of Forever from becoming non-existant.  In the former case,
it looks as though they've abandoned Harlan's elastic time theory for
the sake of introducing Sela (It wasn't worth it. :) ).

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                                ! Address as above or use
Martin Phipps                   ! LOULA@hep.physics.mcgill.ca or simply
                                ! MUHEP::LOULA if you're on a VAX
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Terminal freeze, duplicate posts, lost posts and email-come-posts,
these are a few of my least favorite things.
From: gonn@ktm.EBay.Sun.COM (Greg Gonnerman)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: What episode?
Keywords: ASL
Date: 29 Sep 92 21:08:01 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: ktm.ebay.sun.com

In article <1686C1373D.IQTI400@INDYCMS.IUPUI.EDU> IQTI400@INDYCMS.IUPUI.EDU (macphil) writes:
>In article <1992Sep24.213336.10205@ERA.COM>
>paradis@ERA.COM (Lisa Berkenbilt) writes:
> 
>>Gee... I didn't think ASL (American Sign Language) would change so
>>little between now and theh 24th century :-)
> 
>Why be surprised?  Look how little English has changed betwixt now
>and then.


After learning all the major signed languages, Data demonstrated one
to the captain.  This was definitely not American Sign Language...
Does anyone know where this signed language came from?  Yes, later,
Riva(sp?) and Data do use ASL.

Also, did anyone else notice that Data was interpreting most of the signs
*prior* to them being made/signed?  I was rolling on the floor laughing
about this one :-)


Greg G.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: afdenis@lims02.lerc.nasa.gov (Stephen Dennison)
Subject: Oh my *GOD* .... is it.... *CONTINUITY*?!?!?!?! (Spoilers)
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Ancient Souls Inc.
Date: 29 Sep 1992 13:16 EST  

Here's one for those who haven't seen Time's Arrow II ...

Ok, here's another one for those who haven't seen Booby Trap ...

Ok, here's one more for all the people who agree with Rawdon ... oh, wait a 
minute... that one would be wasted. :-)

OK, so here it is. I'm watching the Sunday night TNG re-runs and up pops 
Booby Trap ... I just finished watching the tape of TA II (Sorry, I 
*worked* Sat. night... sue me ! :-)) and a line in Booby Trap struck me as 
incredibly well threaded to TA II. 

Geordie asks Guinan what she looks at first in a man ... she replies "His 
head."... Geordi thinks she means his *brain* ... Guinan goes on to explain 
that she's attracted to bald men ... Geordi asks why... Guinan says ...

{Paraphrase Alert}

"A long time ago, a bald man was kind to me when I was hurt" or words to 
that effect. 

Ah-HEM ! Need I continue ? 

*Was* this continuity or a lucky happenstance for the writers ? You be the 
judge ! (Also, this *has* to mean that Guinan *knew* about Data's head and 
the problems that were about to unfold. Boy, that woman sure can keep a 
secret !)


-- Stephen

	"Some people live their dreams, some people close their eyes.
	 Some people's destiny... passes by"

					"I'll Be Over You"   -- Toto
From: schroede@bnlux1.bnl.gov (gary l. schroeder)
Subject: Sulu's phaser trivia (was:Re: The Enemy Within
Organization: Brookhaven National Laboratory, Upton, NY 11973
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 18:47:38 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.105028.1752@gserv1.dl.ac.uk> atb@gserv1.dl.ac.uk writes:
>In article 13263@bnlux1.bnl.gov, schroede@bnlux1.bnl.gov (gary l. schroeder) writes:

>> relatively simple like "What was Kirk's middle name".  However, last
>> night's question was "in the episode The Enemy Within, what do we see
>> Sulu's phaser do that we never see a phaser do at any other time?"  I
>> have to admit that it completely stumped me.  Let's see if anyone else
>> out there knows the answer.  Post or e-mail guesses and I'll tell you if
>> you're right (this is assuming that you have nothing better to do with
>> your time...).


>Glad someone reads my posts!
>
>The answer is Sulu used a phaser to heat up a rock to act as a source of heat.
>
>OK Gary, what have I won :-)


Sorry, that's not the answer.  McCoy also does this in "A Private Little
War".  Wanna try again?

So far, of all the e-mail responses I've recieved, only one gentleman
had answered correctly.  Everyone else has also guessed "heating the
rocks", so don't feel bad.

Last night's triv question:  In Charlie X, who supplies the voice of the
ship's galley captain?  This one also completely stumped me.  E-mail
welcome, or post to the group for guesses.  [you may be surprised at the
answer to this one.]


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gary L. Schroeder  		|  
schroede@bnlux1.bnl.gov         |             Boo. 
Brookhaven National Laboratory  | 
From: mhampsch@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com (Mark Hampsch)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 09:13:28 GMT
Subject: Re: Need help with episode name
Organization: Hewlett Packard - Boise, ID
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current

I do not remember the name of the show but that was very important because
the big E did not have enough chemicals to restore the soil back to normal
but there was this ship that deals with the black market that had the
chemicals they needed.  Data went over to get them and the captain of the
other ship was a pirate and collected special rare items.  They knocked out
Data and anilazied what Data was made of and put thoses compoundes on the
shuttle craft and blew up the shuttle.  Captian Picard thought Data was
dead and went back to the planet and solved their problems. Riker or Georde,
I do not rember which one it was but they thought that the cargo ship
just happened to be in the right place at the right time was not right.
Picard went back to the cargo ship.  While the big E was away Data was
trying to escape from this prisson.  An away team beams over and helps Data
defeat the captian of the cargo ship.


I think that is how it went.

Mark hampsch

Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: drubin@forte.poly.edu (David Rubin)
Subject: Re: Glaring Inconsistency (tm) (IMHO) in Time's Arrow Part One
Keywords: Data contraction inconsistency
Organization: Polytechnic University, New York
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 16:52:48 GMT

In article <9319@ncratl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM>, hroth@ncratl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM (Harris Roth) writes:
|> In article <1992Sep23.135319.3442@bmerh85.bnr.ca> hurd@bcrks128.bnr.ca (Scott Hurd) writes:
|> >     I have always had great difficulty accepting the idea that Data is
|> >incapable of using contractions.  Even if he is unable to theorize what
|> >Data:     Well, what do YOU think it is (pause) *** gonna *** be?
|> >     Surely "gonna" is a slang contraction of "going to".  Poor English, but
|> >nevertheless, a contraction.  If Data is able to learn such colloquial
|> >expressions, why can he not learn to say "can't", even if he learns it as a
|> 
|> The writers slipped again on this one.  I noticed the contraction of going to
|> and gonna immediately.  I also noticed a contraction slip in on a previous 
|> episode.  Data uses the contraction I've.  Could someone please post a 
|> reminder about the episode.  
I think Data was merely repeating the word that Jack used. His mannerism
indicated so.

(Don't sue me .. I don't remember the exact dialog)
Jack: .... what's it gonna be?
                     ^^^^^
Data: What do you think its .. gonna be?

He didn't necessarily learn how to use the contraction .. he was just repeating
verbatim Jack's words.
From: rhballan@eos.ncsu.edu (ROBERT HAMI BALLANTINE)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: TA Are you kidding?
Date: 28 Sep 92 16:54:42 GMT
Reply-To: rhballan@eos.ncsu.edu (ROBERT HAMI BALLANTINE)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Originator: rhballan@c00577-1403br.eos.ncsu.edu


In article <1992Sep25.144724.17967@ultb.isc.rit.edu>, smt1179@ritvax.isc.rit.edu (Tom Thatcher) writes:
|> 
|> IF you have seen Time's Arrow part one, this is not a spoiler.
|> If you have not seen Times Arrow at all, yet
|> SPOILER
|> SPOILER
|> SPOILER
|> .
|> .
|> .
|> .
|> .
|> .
|> .
|> .
|> .
|> .
|> .
|> .
|> .
|> .
|> .
|> .
|> .
|> .
|> .
|> .
|> .
|> .
|> .
|> .
|> .
|> OK here it is.  You people are so concerned about Data's head, who was
|> Jack, etc. that you have failed to notice what, IMHO, is a great big
|> warty pimply oozing nauseating flaw about the plot:
|> 
|> 	The motive force behind the entire action is:
|> 	
|> 			Vampires.
|> 
|> 			(again)
|> 
|> Just exactly how many vampires/life force eaters/invaders have we seen
|> in Startrek?  I don't have episode guides, but I bet there's at least a
|> dozen or more in which 
|> 	(a) creature takes over someone's mind
|> 	(b) creature feeds on life force energy (or hate or fear or whatever)
|> 	(c) creature actually eats someone
|> 	(d) Borg
|> 
|> I mean, this is really the oldest fantasy plot around.  Plus the fact is
|> that some of the TA II spoilers seem to suggest some pretty lame resolutions.
|> 
|> If someone has TOS and TNG episode guides and would compile a list of shows
|> in the general "Vampire" genre, I'd be interested in knowing just how many
|> there are.
|> 
|> Don't aliens have anything better to do?
|> 


Too bad ignorance isn't painful.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: jreiss@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Joseph W Reiss)
Subject: S.O.S.:  Realm of Fear
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 10:59:10 GMT


Sorry I'm late on this, but since I only have one entry, I guess it
really doesn't make much difference.

=======================================================================
Thomas Kiefer	8.4		* * * * * * * * >
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Average		8.4		* * * * * * * * >
=======================================================================

Next week's polling starts now.  Please feel free to send me your
ratings (not reviews, just ratings) of episode 3 for next week's
S.O.S. 

Thanks, and see you later.

Joe
-- 
__________       |  jreiss@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
  |   |___)      | """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
\_/OE |  \EISS   |  The addition of a witty remark to a .SIG is illogical.
          `----  |  Nevertheless, it is a fascinating concept worth study.
From: ericw@hobbes.amd.com (Eric Wedaa)
Subject: Re: Barclay and Scotty! (Possible spoilers on Barclay episode)
Keywords: Transporter tech;)
Organization: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 20:22:00 GMT

jereese@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (jean reese) writes:

>In article <ericw.717974480@hobbes> ericw@hobbes.amd.com (Eric Wedaa) writes:
>>Well now... It seems that at least with this latest episode they
>>have proven that people can survive for a period of time in some
>>sort of transporter stasis.  So maybe that's how they are gonig
>>to get Scotty into the future.  
>>

>I disagree! They said something about how they couldn't have him in
>stasis for longer than xx seconds (I don't remember, about 30 or
>45 seconds), and then there was the big panic about getting him back
>in time. When I saw that, I wondered how they were going to explain
>Scotty's being in stasis for so long.

Actually, what I was referring to were the 4 crew members who had
been in some sort of Limbo, not Barclay.  They stated that they
survived due to (Something to do with the flares and/or the
space microbes.)

>>>Ericw
--
Eric Wedaa  -  eric.wedaa@amd.com | Two more kinds of lies...
{ames apple uunet}!amd!ericw      |     Release Dates, and Benchmarks
Advanced Micro Devices, M/S 167 PO Box 3453 Sunnyvale, CA 94088-3453
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: schroede@bnlux1.bnl.gov (gary l. schroeder)
Subject: Re: Glaring Inconsistency (tm) (IMHO) in Time's Arrow Part One
Keywords: Data contraction inconsistency
Organization: Brookhaven National Laboratory, Upton, NY 11973
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1992 12:59:45 GMT

In article <1992Sep23.163907.19590@athena.mit.edu> johnnyp@athena.mit.edu (John Piscitello) writes:
>In article <1992Sep23.135319.3442@bmerh85.bnr.ca> hurd@bcrks128.bnr.ca (Scott Hurd) writes:
>>Greetings:

>>     I have always had great difficulty accepting the idea that Data is
>>incapable of using contractions.  Even if he is unable to theorize what
>>an appropriate contraction should be, he should be able to learn the most
>>common ones simply as new words (e.g.  "can't" to replace "can not").

[...]

>	However, I tend to agree with you. If he can do that, why can't
>he use contractions? Does anyone out there know about the contraction
>rule? How can we explain this? Is it some Asimov positronic-brain thing?


It's a silly rule that the writers invented, and it's unbelievable, I'll
grant you that.  The main reason it was done was due to the fact that it
was believed that Data would seem more android-like if used very rigid,
structured grammar.  I agree.  I like the decision to prevent Data from
using contractions.  However, what they should have done is just leave
it alone...never mention it.  That way they wouldn't have had to invent
the ridiculous "my program has never mastered contractions" routine.


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gary L. Schroeder  		|  
schroede@bnlux1.bnl.gov         |             Boo. 
Brookhaven National Laboratory  |
From: jgasaway@ncsa.uiuc.edu (James Gasaway)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Data and Promotion (was Jean-Luc exploits android labor)
Date: 2 Oct 92 18:02:52 GMT
Article-I.D.: mac20-19.jgasaway-021092123605
Followup-To: rec.arts.startrek.current
Organization: NCSA

One Borg SPOILER exists in here...





























You can't compare Geordi's (or Worf's) promotions to Data's lack of
promotion, because it's easier to be promoted at the lower ranks.  In our
military, the time a person is required to spend in the lower ranks
(officer and enlisted) is considerably less than the time in rank required
for higher ranks (specifics differ depending on the branch of service).

There is also a quota system.  Only so many positions at each rank are
needed.  A lower and lower percentage of people are promoted at each
consecutive rank.  Again, it's easier for Geordi and Worf to get promoted
than it is for Data.

Of course, this doesn't address everyone's feelings that Data is definitely
qualified for the rank of Commander.  The obvious reason he hasn't been
promoted is because of plot device.  Otherwise, everyone would've been
promoted and rescattered throughout Star Fleet after the Borg decimated the
Federation.

However, I would also like to justify it by saying that Data is not ready
for Commander just because he thinks quickly and remembers everything. 
Leadership roles require the ability to understand people very well.  As
shown over and over in numerous "Data episodes", while Data does O.K. he is
still learning about the "big" human concerns such as life, death, love,
revenge, etc. (Although, why hasn't he learned some of this stuff after 20+
years in Star Fleet?  Plot device again).  He can't be an effective long
term leader until he better understands the people under him.

Leadership requires more than book learning and information storage.  Data
is still gaining much needed experience. 


James 
jgasaway@ncsa.uiuc.edu
Univ of Illinois @ Urbana/Champaign
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: ira2p@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Iain Robert Asplin)
Subject: Re: Group Dynamics Review: Time's Arrow, Part II (*SPOILERS*)
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 03:38:53 GMT

In article <rawdon.717647314@cs.wisc.edu> rawdon@colby.cs.wisc.edu writes:
>In <1a5d76INN482@bigboote.WPI.EDU> jtruss@cauchy.WPI.EDU (Free the Expo 67!) writes:
>
>I enjoy time travel stories where everything flows together smoothly, without
>any such "mindfuck".  This came close to being one such.  My favorite
>Doctor Who episode, "Mawdryn Undead", is in exactly the same vein (and is
>an excellent story to boot).  The fun is not in seeing things get screwed
>up, but in seeing the web of confusion untangled.

But....can you sort out all the UNIT-dates mistakes?  :)

>
>Doctor Who is an excellent show, and a large chunk of it vastly exceeds
>the quality of most of TNG!  (I'd rather re-watch the Tom Baker Doctor Whos
>than re-watch TNG.  About 1 in 3 of those DWs are worth watching, at least,
>while about 1 in 5 or 6 TNGs are.)
>

Very intellignet person.  Come over to rec.arts.drwho (unless you already
have or will/have)


Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: rsvanc00@mik.uky.edu (Randolph S. Vance)
Subject: A question for anyone at Paramount.
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 20:19:35 GMT

I am writing a story about Capt. Picard's family, and I was
wondering if any information was available about the official
names of family members, details about the Picard Manor House
in France and the Picard Estate.

Any input will be greatly appreciated! :)

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Randolph S. Vance

              RSVANC00@mik.uky.edu (NeXT Mail)
              RSVANC00@ukpr.uky.edu
              RSVANC00@ukcc.uky.edu

QUOTE: "I'll watch some TV, it'll help me to RELAX!"
              -Ren Hoek

--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: myempire@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Matt J. Martin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: O'Brien's Rank [THE FINAL ANSWER]
Date: 5 Oct 92 02:47:08 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center

In article <BvMFwI.87v@acsu.buffalo.edu> v075q5fr@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Scott J Gorcey) writes:
>In article <BvM6uz.Gy9@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, btd43733@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (BTDonovan) writes...
>
>"Realm of Fear" and O'Brien:
>
>>I must wholeheartedly disagree.  First of all: he DID have two filled circles,
>>therefore, (surprise), he is a lieutennant.
>

   I think a have an answer that actually makes sense.  If you watch closely, 
it seems that O'Brian's formers pips were silver, not the normal gold of
commissioned officers.  So perhaps the enlisted insignia in Star Fleet are
silver, thus differentiating them from the officers.  
   He clearly is a chief petty officer.  He has been referred to as a CPO on
several occasions.  That's why he's called "chief."  You never hear Warf 
referred to as Chief Warf, of Geordi as Chief La Fodge.
   Perhaps the new insignia means he's been promoted to Senior Chief Petty
Officer.  If this were the case, he would still be referred to as Chief O'Brian.   


-- 
  ##   /   ########################################################   /   ##
  ##  //   #################Progress Before Peace!#################  //   ## 
  ## ///// ###Matt J. Martin, Technosociology and Space Politics### ///// ## 
  ##   //  ####Purdue University, myempire@mentor.cc.purdue.edu####   //  ##
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: follick@chama.eece.unm.edu (Jeremy Follick)
Subject: Re: trek food
Date: Fri, 02 Oct 92 22:32:16 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

In article <Bv4MqE.5uz@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> shadow@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (the shadow knows) writes:
>	And don't forget that vulcan soup nurse chapel had spock 
>hit, 
[...]
Plomeek (sp?) soup, Spock's favorite.


Warning: Trying to rationalize treknology may be harmful to your mental
         health.
--
*Jeremy Follick                                   follick@chama.eece.unm.edu
*
* All opinions expressed above are my own and should in no way be considered
* the opinions or policies of the Federation Council or Starfleet Command.
From: davidhe@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: New sets in Realm of Fear (mini-spoilers)
Date: 4 Oct 92 00:10:19 -0300
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

I'm not sure if these are really sopilers, but I'll put in a few spaces just in
case.














A few more...




Ok, that should be enough.
I haven't seen this posted yet, so did anyone notice the new set and the set 
add-on?  The new set was the vertical crawl tunnel.  It was neat to see where 
that door from engineering actually went... Also, I've never seen the cooridor
part of the transporter room before.  I'm not sure if this was my forgetfulness
or an add-on.  According to some book I read, that cooridor leads to a waiting 
and storage room.
I'm sure I've seen the set of the Yosemite before, but dressed up differently, 
and I'm sure I've seen the star background before in "Evolution" (Wesly + 
Nanites).


*****************************************************************************
Lucas Dambergs 
      AKA     
The Supreme Cow

Absence makes the heart grow fungus.    -- The Barenaked Ladies
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada, North America, Sol III (Earth), Terran System
*****************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current