HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: seanna@bnr.ca (Seanna Watson)
Subject: Insensitive things (was Re: a new fun thread??
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Ottawa, Canada
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 16:36:33 GMT

In article <27139@dog.ee.lbl.gov> lindsay@sesame.lbl.gov (Lindsay Schachinger) writes:
>In article <1992Nov2.170040.7833@news.eng.convex.com> newton@convex.com (Vicki Newton) writes:
>
>>so c'mon, does anyone have any good stories about the insensitive things
>>that people have said to you?
>
>... someone says, "I *hope* that's not a girl!" Luckily,
>he wasn't!
 
When my oldest son was around 2, he was walking hand-in-hand with a
friend's son, also around 2.  A passer-by (woman) commented, "Oh,
isn't that cute."  (And they did indeed look very cute :).  Then
after a pause, she said, "I hope one is a boy and the other a girl".

-- 
Seanna Watson   Bell-Northern Research, 
(seanna@bnr.ca) Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

Opinions, what opinions?  Oh *these* opinions. | It's hard to seize the
No, they're not BNR's, they're mine.           | day when you must first
I knew I'd left them somewhere.                | grapple with the morning.
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: reid@metis.tti.com (Reid Kneeland)
Subject: "Rule of thumb" (was Re: 20/20 and Spanking)
Keywords: hogwash
Organization: Transaction Technology Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 17:29:23 GMT

In article <1992Nov6.171926.28749@cbnews.cb.att.com> ljy@cbnews.cb.att.com (linda.j.young) writes:

>Just thought you all would be interested in knowing where the "rule of thumb"
>phrase comes from (I just recently found out).  In medieval times some king
>made a ruling that you could beat your wife, but the stick could not be
>any thicker than the width of your thumb.

Sorry, but that's what's known as "folk etymology", the linguistic
equivalent of an urban legend.  It's a favorite among feminist writers,
but there is no authoritative source to back it up.

The simplest explanation of the phrase is that it merely refers to the
use of the thumb as a crude measure of length (it was actually an
accepted unit of measurement in centuries past, analogous to the
"hands" by which horses are still measured; see the OED under "thumb").

Physics also has rules of thumb (literally) for vector addition and
electron spin.  These use finger positions as visualization devices.

(While we're at it, neither "news" nor "SOS" nor the F-word are
acronymns, as you may also have heard.)

=====================================================================
Reid Kneeland
reid@tti.com  (that's MISTER reid@tti.com to you!)
Transaction Technology Inc., Santa Monica, CA, USA (310) 450-9111 x2499
The opinions expressed above do not necessarily etc etc...

Never trust a man who can count to 1,023 on his fingers.
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: judy@locus.com (Judy Leedom Tyrer)
Subject: Re: Halloween Stories
Organization: Locus Computing Corporation, Los Angeles, California
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1992 01:28:14 GMT

Okay, one more and I promise I'll stop....

One of the boys with us is 3 and quite a pistol.  One house handed out
crayons (two to a packet).  Stephen put the crayons back and said,
"No, I want candy."  His mom explained that the man wasn't giving out
candy and a major Stephen style tantrum erupted.  I bet that man gives
out candy next year!



-- 
Judy Leedom Tyrer

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions"	- William Blake
From: sg@tredysvr.Tredydev.Unisys.COM (Susanne Gilliam)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: 3mo w/ full head of hair..
Date: 5 Nov 92 13:24:15 GMT
Organization: /usr/lib/news/organization

In article <9211041718.AA19748@panhed.psc.edu> grant@panhed.psc.edu (Shirl Grant) writes:
>
>I learned this from my mom - comb bangs down, take scotch tape and
>place so that bottom edge is where the bangs are to be cut.  Make kid
>scrunch eyes and cut below the tape.  Makes it go faster this way.  You
>can also place tape so that the top edge is where the cutting will be,
>makes for faster cleanup :-) but can get stuck to eyebrows :-(
>
>-Shirl

  They make "hair tape" specifically for taping hair, and it is a heck of
a lot less painful to get out, and doesn't leave a residue either.  It
is pink, and I see it in my local pharmacy.  The wide "yellow stickies"
work too; just take one, and cut off the non-gummed part, and use the
strip of gummed part to tape on as described above.  It doesn't work
quite as well as the hair tape, but it is an ok substitute.
 
					Susanne Gilliam


Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: M17257@mwvm.mitre.org
Subject: Re: 20 month old: disrobing
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean VA 22102
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 17:02:47 GMT

In article <1992Nov9.231751.10367@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu>
mes@ddsdx2.jhuapl.edu (Mark Schmid x6322) writes:
 
>
>My 20 month old daughter has developed a penchant for
>removing her clothes.  She is particularly inclined to
>indulge in her new found nudity any time we put her down
>to sleep.  With the cold weather coming, we need to get
>her to stop, and haven't had much success.
>
>Scolding, etc. really doesn't effect her (I hope that's due
>to her age and not a long term attitude), and we have  tried
>things like pajamas that snap up the back - without success.
>
>I suggested that we wind a couple loops of duct tape around her
>after she's dressed, but my wife doesn't want all the fuzz ripped
>off her pajamas :^)
>
>Anyone have a compromise ?
 
Gee, she just started this at 20 months?  Congrats to you, mine has been taking
his clothes off since 14 months  :-)
 
Hasn't really been a problem, since it's been the summer, but now with colder
weather, he's less likely to stay undressed now--learned that it gets awfully
cold with no clothes after a very short time.  :-)  :-)
 
Ellie
From: sueg@ssec.wisc.edu (Sue Gorski)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Partial weaning from breastfeeding
Date: 12 Nov 92 15:33:00 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin, Space Science and Engineering Center

My daughter is now 5.5 months old, I have been back at work for 2
months and have been pumping before and during work for her
consumption at day care.  I have been able to get by without
supplementing with formula. Jill is thriving, and we both enjoy
our time nursing. I am exhausted trying to keep up with
both of our nutritional demands,  I find myself fretting over being 
able to pump enough milk, and I could really use the time I spend 
pumping....

I am thinking of supplementing formula at day care, but am agonizing
over this decision (partly because I have severe allergies and want 
to give her a good start).  Any suggestions on how/when to cut back on
feedings and introduce formula?  Any hints on keeping up my milk
supply for morning and evening feedings?  I would appreciate any 
information you can offer. 

	Thank You   -Sue
From: rschwab@hpcupt1.cup.hp.com (Rachel Schwab)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: California Twin Registry
Date: 5 Nov 92 21:20:17 GMT
Organization: Hewlett Packard, Cupertino


The California Twin Registry at the Department of Psychology, University
of California, Davis is starting a new twin study in California and is
trying to locate all California twins and persons having twins in their
families.  They are looking for both fraternal and identical twins.

If you are a twin, or if you have twins, or if there are twins if your
family, and you're interested in participating in this twin study, contact
Dr. Niels G. Waller at 1-800-845-1844.
From: kperdue@hpsmtc1.cup.hp.com (Karla Perdue)
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 21:34:09 GMT
Subject: Re: Eating Healthy (was Re: Halloween Stories
Organization: Hewlett Packard, Cupertino
Newsgroups: misc.kids


I like what several of you have said on this topic.  I started out doing
something similar.  However, at 5, my daughter seems to have an inordiate
desire for sweets and avoidance of vegtables (she eats cereals well and
enough meet and a lot of fruit).  As a 2 yo she seemed to like several
vegtables and in fact ate a wide diet, but now she hardly eats any vegtables
and is much more restricted in what she will eat.

My question: Could the change be due to the influence of her daycare?
Since 2 she has spent a lot of time in a woman's home.  The woman is very
nice and her daughter is my daughter's best friend.  I feel quite comfortable
with discipline and many other aspects.  However, that woman is NOT as health
conscious as I am and lets her kids eat a lot of "junk" food.  Could my
daughter be picking up her attitude from there?  Or is this a natural trend
due to age development?  Does anyone have any ideas as to how significant
an influence outsiders are on a kid's eating as opposed to the parent's
influence?

Thanks.

Karla Perdue                 The opinions expressed are strictly my
Mountain View, CA            own and not those of Hewlett-Packard.
From: pleeper@wtcp.DaytonOH.NCR.COM (Paulette Leeper)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: 20/20 SPANKING COMPLAINT
Date: 9 Nov 92 20:17:02 GMT
Reply-To: pleeper@wtcp.DaytonOH.NCR.COM (Paulette Leeper)
Distribution: world
Organization: IRP Corporate Data Planning - Dayton, OH

> 
> In article <1764@wtcp.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> pleeper@wtcp.DaytonOH.NCR.COM
(Paulette Leeper) writes:
> >
> >In article <25765@optima.cs.arizona.edu> shack@cs.arizona.edu (David
> >Shackelford) writes:
>  >
>  >SOME parents can't think up anything else but a spanking.  It is 
>  >imperative that kids are raised in a non-violent way.  Therefore,
>  >if parents haven't found a non-violent means that works, they
>  >must think harder.
> 
> You don't get the point.  Some parents have thought long and hard
> (how does ~15 years grab you) and still regrettably the child
> doesn't respond to new and wonderful ways of keeping her from
> burning down the house.  Alas, we either need to install a
> sprinkler system or get her to understand DON'T PLAY WITH MATCHES!!

I agree that parents can think long and hard and STILL not 
come up with an effective means.   Just because someone muses 
on a mathematical problem for 15 years and doesn't come up with
an answer doesn't mean none exists.  

As for burning down the house, your example sounds like a fairy tale
to me.  What about cutting off her supply of matches?
  
> miniscule risk of minor emotional damage to the much larger risk.

Are you an authority on what constitutes "minor" emotional damage?

-- 
Paulette Leeper                               paulette.leeper@daytonOH.NCR.COM
NCR Corporate Data Planning & Admin              ...!uunet!ncrcom!wtcp!pleeper
++++++++++++++++513-445-6289   VP 622-6289   FAX 513-445-2468+++++++++++++++++
-- 
Paulette Leeper                               paulette.leeper@daytonOH.NCR.COM
NCR Corporate Data Planning & Admin              ...!uunet!ncrcom!wtcp!pleeper
++++++++++++++++513-445-6289   VP 622-6289   FAX 513-445-2468+++++++++++++++++
From: pburch@bcm.tmc.edu (Paula Burch)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Please Don't Spank!
Date: 12 Nov 1992 20:04:46 GMT
Organization: Baylor College of Medicine, Houston, Tx
Distribution: world
Reply-To: pburch@bcm.tmc.edu (Paula Burch)
NNTP-Posting-Host: roc.mbcr.bcm.tmc.edu
Originator: pburch@roc.mbcr.bcm.tmc.edu


In article <1992Nov12.164350.8626@cs.brown.edu>, mhn@cs.brown.edu 
(Marian H. Nodine) writes:
     |> In article <184390002@hpsemc.cup.hp.com> pt@hpsemc.cup.hp.com 
          (Perry Taidi) writes:
     |> >Please don't spank! Don't teach obediance! 
|> I teach my children obedience for one simple reason:  I practice obedience 
|> myself (obedience to God first, but also obedience in lesser situations to
|> other people).  As an adult, I found learning obedience to be a very hard
|> thing; for my children I hope it will be a bit easier for them but I am
|> under no delusions that obedience is a total piece of cake for them to learn.
|> 
|> As a parent, I do not demand obedience because I like authority, I teach
|> obedience because I have found that when I obey I have *much* greater 
|> freedom and also because I feel that if someday my children decide to 
|> follow God they will have a head start on obedience.  
|> 
|> In terms of freedom and obedience, since I know my bounds, I have the
|> freedom to explore anywhere else without running into conflicts with
|> whom I obey.  This holds true in my marriage as well -- once I made a
|> concrete decision to learn to submit to my husband (after we had been
|> married for nine years or so), and learned what that really meant, I
|> have found a lot more freedom to do what I want to do and be what I
|> want to be.  My husband has turned into a loving, responsible husband.
|> Though I view submission as fundamentally different from obedience in
|> certain aspects, the act of submitting *has* taught me a lot about
|> obedience as well.

Here we have a basic conflict, the sort that no amount of discussion
will resolve. No matter how much we argue, some of us (including me and
probably Perry Taidi) will believe that "obedience" and "submission" have 
no place in a proper relationship with God or husband, and others (such 
as Misty) will feel that they are essential.

I do hope that this particular disagreement will not spin off into a flame 
war of its own, because (unlike a flamewar on spanking) such a flamewar 
cannot have any beneficial effects, and it's not really a good topic 
for misc.kids, but belongs in some general discussion of philosophy or 
religion. Clarifying what assumptions we base our childrearing practices 
on is enlightening, but arguing over whether those assumptions are correct 
is not.

Note that I'm not attacking Misty for posting this--I'm just anticipating 
yet another religious war! (Or am I just attempting to place a civilized 
facade over my desire to yell, "No! No! You're wrong!"? :-))

Paula Burch
pburch@bcm.tmc.edu
From: bweiss@cs.arizona.edu (Beth Weiss)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Completely confused about bacteria and sterilization
Date: 9 Nov 92 23:32:48 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: U of Arizona, CS Dept, Tucson

pburch@bcm.tmc.edu (Paula Burch) writes:

|> Dissenting views, anyone? I'd like to see them.

Paula,
   You're a biologist--if I dissented, do you think I'd be
silly enough to tell you? :-)   You could have reminded people
of that....
  
   At daycare, Maggie puts partially used bottles of milk back
in the fridge and resuses them at this next feeding.  Doesn't
seem to hurt him any, and pumped milk is hard to come by.

I haven't sterilized _ANYTHING_ since he was born, although I
do run everything through the dishwasher rather than just
washing it by hand.   It often means running a partial load,
since I like to do the pump parts that way--we only have cold
water at work, so I just rinse them after use.

   Hope all is well there....the spanking thread is getting too
predictable--of course, I've already made up my mind :-)

-- 
--Beth Weiss
bweiss@cs.arizona.edu
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: M18611@MBVM.Mitre.Org (Kathy Wilk)
Subject: Re: parent/child relationships
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, Bedford MA 01730
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 15:56:20 GMT

In article <1992Nov10.002659.14150@octel.com>
cathy@octel.com (Cathy Kearns) writes:
>
>The next day, on the way to school, my husband and I were treated
>to the following lecture from the back seat...
>
>"You should never scream at little girls, it just makes them cry.
>You should just talk nice to little girls, and they will be nice
>to you.  If you want a little girls to do something, you ask her
>nicely and say please."
>
>Well, these pearls of wisdom from our almost three year old do
>work for us.  Occasionly we do have to add "Please put on your
>shoes, I don't want to have to scream at you." And it seems
>to work rather cheerfully.  Maybe you could ask your child what
>would work for them?
>
 
  My daughter is a half a year older than yours and what I hear is:
'When you scream at me, it hurts my feelings'.  At first, I thought,
'She is around other kids a lot and they say that so she is parroting
their words - I may hurt her ears but can't possibly be hurting her
feelings'.  After about five occasions of her saying this, I started
to question whether maybe she was right - after all, she was trying to
tell me something and I wasn't listening.  At her age or level of
development, feelings are the most important things.  So I started to
acknowledge that by saying, 'I'm sorry that I hurt your feelings by
yelling at you just now but this is what you have to do so that we can
....'  Same situation occurs when she wants something and can't have
it.  Taking in her side of the story doesn't mean we still don't have
to get dressed more quickly, she can't have that toy in the store, etc.
But I think it helps to let the child know you believe them when they
communicate their side to you.
  Now, if I could just control my own impatience...
 
                        K. Wilk
                        M18611@MBVM.MITRE.ORG
 
            <--********************************-->
 'Thrusting my nose firmly between his teeth, I threw him to the ground
  on top of me.' - Mark Twain
            <--********************************-->
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: sgauch@ccs.northeastern.edu (Susan Gauch)
Subject: Re: A Balanced Diet (Was Re: Halloween Stories)
Organization: College of CS, Northeastern U
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 14:16:05 GMT

>But you are still controlling her.  From my point of view, this just seems
>like added work.  Why not buy Caffeine Free soda for her and let her have
>as much as she wants?
>
>-- 
>Judy Leedom Tyrer
>
Last week, Laura (3.8) insisted on ham and coke for breakfast.
Not my personal favourite, but after suggesting a few more "normal"
alternatives I got it for her.  Not that different than bacon and
apple juice, really.  Yesterday, she had macaroni and cheese.  
If she wants a cookie before
dinner, she gets a cookie.  If she's not hungry for dinner when we are,
I put hers aside and she eats it later.  I kind of like a quiet "adult"
dinner from time to time.  Laura usually plays or watches TV while we
eat.  Sometimes we bring our dinners in the TV room to be with her,
sometimes she joins us at the table  although she doesn't eat.  She's tall
and thin.  Let's just say, I'm not.

The only food I try to cajole her into eating is milk.  She's not that
fond of it so I try to convince her that she needs it to grow (which is
true) and that her doctor wants her to drink more (also true).  She will
occasionally drink 4 ounces now which is way below her daily requirement.
So, we also offer ice cream, milkshakes, chocolate milk, yogurt  etc. as
snacks regularly.
-- 
Susan Gauch
sgauch@flora.ccs.northeastern.edu
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: elise@ticipa.pac.sc.ti.com (Elise Wade)
Subject: Re: Halloween Stories
Organization: Texas Instruments
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 19:13:47 GMT

In article <1992Nov05.012123.2220075@locus.com> judy@locus.com (Judy Leedom Tyrer) writes:
>Well I don't know about cute, but will you accept proud?  Ron and I read
>
[... deleted for brevity ...]

>We do so many things wrong as parents I just thought I'd take some proud
>credit for something that we have really done right.  Candy has no forbidden
>aura in our house.  So it's nice if we have it, but no big deal.  The same
>goes for soda vs. juice, and all those other forbidden foods so many of my
>friends fret over.  
>
>-- 
>Judy Leedom Tyrer
>
Interesting that someone else has had the same experience with
food.  I too followed the standard advice of no forbidden food.
It works!  

Of course Sabrina ate a lot of her candy from Halloween already.
Some of this is because this kid eats *A LOT* (she's about 50%
height & weight & definitely not fat).  The other contributing 
factor was Daddy.  I overheard this conversation:
Sabrina: Daddy you ate two of the best candies!  Not fair!
Daddy: Is so.
Sabrina:  There *my* candies, I went to get them!!
Daddy: Hey they are mine too, I went with you!
Sabrina: Well you already ate *two* of the best candies!!
(etc. :) )

Anyway, last time we ate at a cafeteria, Sabrina picked:
fresh fruit salad (no dressing), broiled fish, brussel sprouts,
spinach & tomatoes, and water to drink.  (Yes she ate it.)

Elise.
From: tigger@satyr.Sylvan.COM (Grace Sylvan)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Our parents and spanking  Re: 20/20 and Spanking
Date: 5 Nov 92 07:59:55 GMT
	<1992Nov3.144735.20643@oakhill.sps.mot.com>
Organization: Sylvan Associates

In article <1992Nov3.144735.20643@oakhill.sps.mot.com> millerm@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Mikemoe) writes:

   Ok, I'm curious...many people have voiced their opinions against
   spanking...I have voiced my opinions about the usefulness of 
   spanking in child-raising...

   [....]

   So, if you were raised in a home where your parents spank, and they didn't
   do so in an abusive manner, AND you oppose spanking, I'd sure like to hear
   briefly why you do....either post, or email and I'll summarize. [I have been
   following this thread, so no need to make it a long letter discussing what's
   been said already. Please keep it brief]

My parents didn't spank or hit often. But a family story is how I
powdered my napping mom's black pants with my baby bro's baby powder,
and how I 'got it' for that.

I was raised in an extremely autocratic (and Christian) home, where
there was always the danger of getting in trouble (punished) for
'wrong' behaviors. This upbringing caused me to avoid telling my
parents anything about my life that I could, for fear of unexpected
(or expected) reprisals. My sister had the same reaction, and once we
could move out and had control of our own lives, we told our parents
next to nothing about anything going on for us. The lack of trust that
I felt for my parents has indeed followed me to my marriage. I often
felt that I couldn't trust Kayvan to be honestly concerned with my
wellbeing, and to be making suggestions to me that *would* be good for
me, not just 'what he thought I should be doing'.

Katherine has been raised w/o spanking, and without much punishment. I
believe (as I'm sure many who punish their child do) that my job is
to guide/teach my daughter about expected social behaviors, to care
for others, and so on. While parts of being a parent came naturally -
we've also done a lot to LEARN techniques (and, as time went on, our
attitudes shifted some, too). But that will be another post, I am
going to answer the 'alternatives to spanking' query.
-- 

Tigger (Grace Sylvan)                Mom of Katherine Yelena, 8/8/89,
tigger@satyr.sylvan.com              Corey 1/31/91; we loved him so,
                                     Robin Gregory born 2/28/92

 "It seems to me that our large goal is to find the ways to help our
 children become humane and strong."
 
              - Dr Haim Ginott quoted by Adele Faber & Elaine Mazlish
From: milt@sdd.hp.com (Milt Fisher)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Sandbox sand
Date: 10 Nov 1992 11:49:52 -0800
Organization: Hewlett Packard, San Diego Division
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: hp-sdd.sdd.hp.com

Can someone tell me what kind of sand to get for a sandbox?  I've heard that
some sand has asbestos, glass, plutonium :-), etc., etc. in it.  I've also
heard that you should get sandbox sand, not to get sandbox sand, get builders
sand, ...  Is there a consensus as to what is the correct answer?

Thanks,

Milt Fisher - Hewlett Packard, San Diego Division
milt@sdd.hp.com
-- 

Milt Fisher - Hewlett Packard, San Diego Division
milt@sdd.hp.com
Newsgroups: misc.kids