HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ophof@SERVER.uwindsor.ca (Scott Ophof)
Newsgroups: news.software.readers
Subject: Re: FAQ's and how to get people to read them
Date: 21 Jan 1993 13:02:15 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu


On 19 Jan 1993 15:00:06 GMT hartman@ulogic.UUCP (Richard M. Hartman) said:
>...
>Unfortunately there is no way to ensure that people
>will read the documentation that they have on their
>own systems, much less a FAQ posted montly before
>they ask their question.

IF local info isn't set up so it points readers to what they are
trying to discover, they might be tempted to try FAQs instead, at
least *IF* they somehow get wind of the existance of the concept of
"FAQ"s and don't summarily dismiss them due to the negative way
they're generally referred to.

If users overcome the above-mentioned negative aura of FAQs, and
try reading them anyway, you've got some pretty tenacious users
here, with the right spirit.

It's downright criminal then to disillusion those users by giving
them FAQs prefixed with a number of intro pages/screens that don't
tell them anything they didn't already know using plain common
sense.
Or that long intro spiel about who's updating it, why he's using
blabla instead of beepbeep, etc.

And when the FAQ then goes on to describe the most silly questions
and dumbest answers devisable by humans, it's no wonder the users
give up in disgust!

Suggestions:
 - GET RID OF THE DUMB QUESTIONS!  Users don't like being called
   "dumb".  They aren't, you see.  Many of them are just simply
   disgusted with the lack of friendliness emanating from a lot
   of people answering their questions.
 - Push the vendors of your system to have the man pages expanded
   so users of *any* level can ALSO read them.
   *WHOA* THERE!  I mean "implement additional levels of more
   detailed info (even if repetitive!) which aren't visible on
   initial entry, but CAN be accessed by anyone who wants to".
 - If then still necessary (and I realize it *will* be), set up
   FAQs so they start with max 1 screen of description, and then
   a menu of subjects.  When such a subject is selected, it should
   display the relevant info.
 - Get rid of the term "FAQ"; it's too denigrating and unfair.
 - As to how newsreaders might handle "FAQ"s, what about having
   the newsreaders see "FAQ"s as a special newsgroup?
   One that can NEVER be marked as "read" or "killed", but is always
   available, and displayed with a special menu.  Where one can in
   some EASY way select a subject for display.
   Users might want to "hide" "FAQ"s they really aren't interested in.
   But hidden "FAQ"s should also be easily UNhidden; users do change
   over time.
 - Last but not least, admins are *also* users, whether they like it
   or not...

Regards.
$$\    F. Scott Ophof

--------------------------->  I speak *only* for *myself*  <-----
My credo:  Computers exist for OUR benefit, NEVER vice-versa.


Newsgroups: news.software.readers
From: jshin@cs.yale.edu (Jungshik Shin)
Subject: How to change 'From' line
Keywords: From,tin,rn
Reply-To: jshin@minerva.cis.yale.edu
Organization: Yale University
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 21:15:06 GMT





   NNTP server at my school put 'lastname-firstname@yale.edu' in 'From' line
of article posted if I use RN. I ,however, hate this because it seems to me
very redundant when someone quotes my article. ('Jungshik Shin
(shin-jungshik@yale.edu) wrote...' appears at the beggining of follow-up to
my article). Moreover, I think this is why I cannot cancel my own article.
RN seems to get my e-mail address by combining my account name (jshin) with
the address of host where I have my account( minerva.cis.yale.edu.) and
compare it with the address in 'From' line (shin-jungshik@yale.edu),which
makes RN judge that I'm NOT the owner of my article and refuse canceling. 

  Hence, I turned to TIN which put 'jshin@cs.yale.edu' in 'From' line. This
is NOT correct,either and make mail-reply to my article UNdelievered which I
can get around by setting 'Reply-To' line properly. On top of that, I have
nothing to do with CS dept. so that it's annoying to have 'cs' in my
address.  

   Is there any way to customize 'From' line the way  I like? I wish to have
'jshin@minerva.cis.yale.edu.' in 'From' line. I asked several times this
question on my school's local board to get no reply partly because they
don't like my idea of using 'jshin@minerva.cis.yale.edu' . 

  I would greatly appreciate any help regarding this matter.  

   Jungshik Shin 
  
P.S. I set 'Reply-to' line correctly so that I would like you to reply to me
via mail using 'reply' of your news reader and I'll summarize. 

   I'm posting this with TIN and you'll see 'jshin@cs.yale.edu.' in From
line which is NOT correct.
From: middleto@poincare.ucsd.edu (Tom Middleton ; System Manager)
Newsgroups: news.software.readers
Subject: Re: TIN: Use several .newsrc files?
Date: 27 Jan 1993 05:00:24 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego
NNTP-Posting-Host: poincare.ucsd.edu
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

[ Thanks to Tom for letting me use his account ]

sherric@hprpils.rose.hp.com (Sherri Cornejo) writes:
:
: Is there any way to create more than one .newsrc file containing a common
: set of news groups to enter, and go into News using any one of the different
: newsrc files?

Yes and no. In the present release you can use a wildcard pattern from the
command line (ie. tin *.sources.*) to read a subset of all the groups.

In the next release you will be able to read in mutiple newsrc files so that
you can also access news from multiple news servers within the same session.

Iain
From: scotty@piranha.cs.uoguelph.ca (Steve Howie)
Newsgroups: news.software.readers
Subject: Re: Want recommendation for simple new reader
Date: 27 Jan 93 18:59:12 GMT
Reply-To: scotty@piranha.cs.uoguelph.ca
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Guelph
NNTP-Posting-Host: piranha.cs.uoguelph.ca

Michael J. Edelman writes
> I'm currently running xvnews on a SPARC ELC, accessing a remote news server.  
This	works fine, but I need a simpler VT-100 oriented reader for dial-in use  
by one	person who also uses my machine. What's the simplest package to set up  
for this use?

I use 'tin' from home and it works great .... simple 'full-screen' curses  
interface. 

Get it from:	ftp.uu.net

File is:	/pub/networking/news/readers/tin/tin.tar.Z

Scotty
Newsgroups: news.software.readers
From: sherric@hprpils.rose.hp.com (Sherri Cornejo)
Subject: WINVN: how to set up on pc
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 22:52:35 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8.1]

We got a copy of winvn (a Windows pc version of a News reader) and are having
trouble getting it to work.

Ultimately, we'd like to have the software available for anyone with a pc
from a shared device.  Or we'd like to have one place pc users can install
from onto their pc.

The documentation mentions modifying the win.ini file to include information
about [winvn] - done.  It also mentions telnet <sys> 119 is used to get
to the News system - couldn't get that to work.  I think we may be missing
some software called WIN/TCP version 2.03 TCP/IP, but I don't know where to
get a copy or if we can make it available to everyone wanting to read News
from their pc.

I also wonder if the pc users have to have an actual logon on the News system
or do they just get logged on through telnet and straight into News.  Mark
Riordan seems to be the creator of winvn and I'd like to contact him directly
if anyone knows him and how to contact him.

Anybody out there using winvn right now?

Thanks in advance for any info.

Sherri Cornejo
Roseville - HP
email = sherric@hprpcd.rose.hp.com
phone = 916-785-4225
Newsgroups: news.software.readers
From: Iain.Lea@anl433.uucp
Subject: Re: TIN interface suggestion.
Organization: TIN Support
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 BETA PL0]
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 08:19:14 GMT

Scott Ophof (ophof@SERVER.uwindsor.ca) wrote:
:
: >I am working on the rebindable key/function problem (albeit slowly).
:
: Iain & Steve, my fervent hope is that you both are implementing it
: so that your utility can (without real difficulties) be used as
: "front-end" for (virtually) any application (ie. not only tin).
: And hoping even more that it will allow binding of a key to a
: *sequence* of functions.

What you are looking for is not what I will be implementing.

Check out the Emacs OS :) for consistent keys for each app.

Iain

--
NAMES  Iain Lea    Iain.Lea%anl433.uucp@Germany.EU.net
SNAIL  Siemens AG, ANL A433SZ, Gruendlacher Str. 248, 8510 Fuerth, Germany.
PHONE  +49-911-3089-407 (work) +49-911-331963 (home) +49-911-3089-290 (FAX)
From: middleto@poincare.ucsd.edu (Tom Middleton ; System Manager)
Newsgroups: news.software.readers
Subject: Re: TIN: How can I change editor startup options?
Date: 27 Jan 1993 05:04:01 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego
NNTP-Posting-Host: poincare.ucsd.edu
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

[ Thanx to Tom for letting me use his account ]

westes@netcom.com (Will Estes) writes:
:
: Using TIN, how can I specify the edit command to be used?  I need to
: make sure that one of two things happen:
: 	1) my alias for vi is used instead of an absolute path to 
: 	/usr/ucb/vi
: 	OR
: 	2) I can supply my own startup string directly.  I need
: 	for the startup string to contain an environment variable,
: 	as in:
: 		vi -c "$VI_ARGS"

In the present version neither of the above points are possible.

I may add parsing of env. variables withiN the editor string in a
future release so watch this space.

Iain

Newsgroups: news.software.readers
From: dactyl@netcom.com (David Carter)
Subject: How to uudecode from tin?
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 06:18:18 GMT

Hi gang. Just switched to tin and love it.
Having trouble with the s command to uudecode
stuff from the usenet though. Can someone offer
suggestions for doing this properly when the file
is broken into multiple parts that may/may not be
presented in the proper sequence?

Many thanks...

-- 
David Carter                       So maybe I could be a fly
dactyl@netcom.com                 And feed arachnid as I die
San Pablo, California        And view the ritual from within 
USA                         The silken tunnel that they spin
From: mjo@iao.ford.com (Mike O'Connor)
Newsgroups: news.software.readers
Subject: Re: XRN 6.17 startup error message
Date: 26 Jan 1993 20:52:11 GMT
Organization: Not an official spokesperson for Ford Motor Company
Reply-To: Mike O'Connor <mjo@fmsrl7.srl.ford.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost

In article <1993Jan26.134940.1279@iplmail.orl.mmc.com>
day@elmer.orl.mmc.com (Jim Day) writes:

:When I start xrn 6.17 (on HP 720) is see the following message in my terminal
:
:Bogus active file entry, skipping
:0000000000 0000000001 y
:
:Any ideas what this is and how I can get rid of it?

Sounds like the active file on the NNTP server that you are connecting
to has a bad entry.  I'd contact the systems administrator of the NNTP
server you're connecting to and ask him to check his active file
(traditionally in /usr/lib/news/active with C-News, /usr/local/news/active
with that new tradition, INN).

						...Mike

-- 
 Michael J. O'Connor           |  Internet:  mjo@fmsrl7.srl.ford.com
 Ford Motor Company, OPEO      |  UUCP:      ...!{backbone}!fmsrl7!mjo
 20000 Rotunda, Bldg. 1-3001   |  Phone:     +1 (313) 248-1260
 Dearborn, MI  48121           |  Fax:       +1 (313) 323-6277
Newsgroups: news.software.readers
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: TIN interface suggestion.
Organization: Elitist Usenet Administrators, Stuff and Nonsense Division
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 17:42:59 GMT

In article <9301230412.AA17218@SERVER.uwindsor.ca> ophof@SERVER.uwindsor.ca (Scott Ophof) writes:

>On 22 Jan 1993 01:39:30 GMT twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) said:
>
>>In article <9301211857.AA25542@SERVER.uwindsor.ca> ophof@SERVER.uwindsor.ca (Scott Ophof) writes:
>
>>>Iain & Steve, my fervent hope is that you both are implementing it
>>>so that your utility can (without real difficulties) be used as
>>>"front-end" for (virtually) any application (ie. not only tin).
>>>...
>>>And hoping *still* more that it won't necessitate re-compilation by
>>>the user (though *very* nice as extra!).
>>
>>How do you imagine that any such thing will be possible?

I'm implying not that recompilation would be a problem, but that a
utility which would work for nearly any application would be nothing
short of unbelievable.  The way the operating system is designed makes
this close to impossible, if not actually impossible.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / 
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /               Rocks say goodbye.
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /
From: ranck@joesbar.cc.vt.edu (Wm. L. Ranck)
Newsgroups: news.software.readers
Subject: Re: TIN: Partial Clear
Date: 25 Jan 93 13:56:42 GMT
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

Howard Wilson (stile@okcforum.osrhe.uoknor.edu) wrote:
: Is there a way to mark some files as read, while leaving others unread?
: Sort of like a "Clear messages 1-100, but leave the reast alone"-type thing?

I would like to see something like this also.  Currently I hack the .newsrc
file to accomplish this.
--

*******************************************************************************
* Bill Ranck                                          ranck@joesbar.cc.vt.edu *
* Computing Center at Virginia Tech, not Vermont ----------------------^^     *
*******************************************************************************
From: ophof@SERVER.uwindsor.ca (Scott Ophof)
Newsgroups: news.software.readers
Subject: Re: TIN interface suggestion.
Date: 21 Jan 1993 13:05:30 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu


On 19 Jan 1993 14:59:51 GMT kcb@post.its.mcw.edu (Kent C. Brodie) said:
>I have the best interface suggestion of all.   Simply provide
>the news manager with a include file (or config file, or whatever)
>and let THAT PERSON decide how the key-mapping should be done.
>ALl you do is edit the file that has   key/function pairs.

Right, Kent!  It's just about *EXACTLY* what I was suggesting,
except for two points:
 - Let each user make the decision personally.  Ie. 3 levels:
    + Defaults as from the implementor.
    + Optional default-overrides at compile-time.
    + final (optional) overrides by EACH user.
 - Make it key/macro pairs (where a macro can be zero or more
   functions).

Attitudes like "the sysadmin knows best" just aren't "with it" any
more...


>Simple to DO, but probably a lot of work for Iain....   in any
>case, this would prevent everyone's gripes.....

Indeed!  And implemented correctly, it would make life so much more
fun for a *huge* amount of people!  Imagine Unix *really* being the
system of the future, instead of an advertiser's daydream...  ;-)

Regards.
$$/
From: lws@shawu.edu (Luther W. Smith Jr.)
Newsgroups: news.software.readers
Subject: Re: XRN 6.17 startup error message
Date: 26 Jan 1993 17:00:28 GMT
Organization: Shaw University, Raleigh NC
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: savior.shawu.edu

In article <1993Jan26.134940.1279@iplmail.orl.mmc.com>, day@elmer.orl.mmc.com (Jim Day) writes:
|> Hi,
|> When I start xrn 6.17 (on HP 720) is see the following message in my terminal
|> window:
|> 
|> Bogus active file entry, skipping
|> 0000000000 0000000001 y
|> 
|> Any ideas what this is and how I can get rid of it?
|> 
|> Thanks...
|> 
|> -- 
|> +------------------------------+---------------------------------+	
|> | Jim Day                      | Office: 407/356-9603            |
|> | Martin Marietta,  MP1269     | FAX:    407/356-6808            |
|> | P.O. Box 628007              | Internet: day@elmer.orl.mmc.com |
|> | Orlando, FL  32862-8007      |                                 |
|> +------------------------------+---------------------------------+

There is a bad entry in your active file. Remove the entry from your
active file.

-- 
Luther W. Smith,   lws@shawu.edu  | Always strive for excellence and you
ADP, Shaw University, Raleigh NC  | will achieve it.
From: ophof@SERVER.uwindsor.ca (Scott Ophof)
Newsgroups: news.software.readers
Subject: Re: TIN interface suggestion.
Date: 22 Jan 1993 22:14:01 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu


On 22 Jan 1993 01:39:30 GMT twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) said:
>In article <9301211857.AA25542@SERVER.uwindsor.ca> ophof@SERVER.uwindsor.ca (Scott Ophof) writes:

>>Iain & Steve, my fervent hope is that you both are implementing it
>>so that your utility can (without real difficulties) be used as
>>"front-end" for (virtually) any application (ie. not only tin).
>>...
>>And hoping *still* more that it won't necessitate re-compilation by
>>the user (though *very* nice as extra!).

>How do you imagine that any such thing will be possible?

Tim, I'm taking your question completely seriously.  My reaction is
one of utter amazement:
   Are you implying that re-compilation would be so obvious
   that mentioning it would be superfluous???

Or did I read you wrong?  Anyway, *I* have no idea how to implement
such a thing on Unix, with or without re-compilation, and happily
leave it to the programmers.

Regards.
$$\    F. Scott Ophof

--------------------------->  I speak *only* for *myself*  <-----
My credo:  Computers exist for OUR benefit, NEVER vice-versa.
From: dmccart@gomez.intel.com (D. J. McCarthy)
Newsgroups: news.software.readers
Subject: Re: FAQ's and how to get people to read them
Date: 22 Jan 93 18:16:59 GMT
Organization: Intel ASTG, Santa Clara, CA
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]

Scott Ophof (ophof@SERVER.uwindsor.ca) wrote:

>  - Get rid of the term "FAQ"; it's too denigrating and unfair.

	To coin a phrase, *WHOA* THERE!  How is the term "Frequently
Asked Questions" denigrating and unfair?  And to whom?


--
D. J. McCarthy (dmccart@gomez.intel.com)
"Whenever you come across something you don't understand, just think up an
 answer that SOUNDS as if it might work and forget about it."
                                      --Katrina Hill, alt.tv.red-dwarf, 8/19/92
From: ag@hpscit.sc.hp.com (Andy Garton)
Newsgroups: news.software.readers
Subject: XRn 6.8 Binary?
Date: 21 Jan 1993 15:43:52 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard SSG/CSY-PWD, UK.
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: hpopdlch.pwd.hp.com

Anyone know where I can get hold of the above for an HP 730?  I've got the
source but gave up trying to compile it after lots of messing about...

Thanks...

                ---------------------------------------------- 
      
      \ Andy Garton :       \			Jesus saves!
       \ ag@hpopd.pwd.hp.com \			But Kitson gets the rebound...
        \ Reading, England    \  		He Shoots.  He SCOOORES!!!
Newsgroups: news.software.readers
From: stile@okcforum.osrhe.uoknor.edu (Howard Wilson)
Subject: TIN: Partial Clear
Organization: Okcforum Unix Users Group
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 05:54:33 GMT


If the help file explains how, I can't see it.
 
Is there a way to mark some files as read, while leaving others unread?
Sort of like a "Clear messages 1-100, but leave the reast alone"-type thing?
This is the ONE thing I miss from rn.  Other than that, tin beats it with
a stick.  For those that don't understand (I seem to have problems putting
down thoughts well today) I mean the rn command "1-100j", is there a way
do to this with TIN?
 
Howard Wilson II

--
Stile, Howard Wilson II, and any other names I might use can be reached at:
   stile@okcforum.uoknor.edu   | I have two personalities.  One is paranoid,
I speak for no one but myself! | and the other is out to get him.
Send mail for information on The Darwinners and the Evolving Fish!
Newsgroups: news.software.readers
Subject: None
From: pkumar@oread.cc.ukans.edu
Date: 24 Jan 93 13:37:36 CST
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Serces

The end of the story is about to begin.  

Newsgroups: news.software.readers
From: cliftonr@netcom.com (Pope Clifton)
Subject: Re: TIN: How can I change editor startup options?
Organization: Inst. for Epistemological Pathology
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 00:11:08 GMT

Set the environment variable VISUAL to the full path of the editor you
want, either in your .profile/.login (if you want it to apply to all
programs, not just tin) or in invoking tin, thus:

VISUAL=$HOME/bin/myvi tin

  -- Clifton

--
cliftonr@netcom.com     Home: +1 808 521 9073  Work: +1 808 625 3234
Clifton Royston, Pope of the Church of the Subgenius in Paradise
- Dissecting personal psychopathology at the edge of the 20th century -
From: middleto@poincare.ucsd.edu (Tom Middleton ; System Manager)
Newsgroups: news.software.readers
Subject: Re: TIN: Partial Clear
Date: 27 Jan 93 04:54:02 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego
NNTP-Posting-Host: poincare.ucsd.edu
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

[ Thanks to Tom for letting me use his account ]

stile@okcforum.osrhe.uoknor.edu (Howard Wilson) writes:
: 
: Is there a way to mark some files as read, while leaving others unread?
: Sort of like a "Clear messages 1-100, but leave the reast alone"-type thing?
: This is the ONE thing I miss from rn.  Other than that, tin beats it with
: a stick.  For those that don't understand (I seem to have problems putting
: down thoughts well today) I mean the rn command "1-100j", is there a way
: do to this with TIN?

Use the 'K' command to mark the current article/thread as read. Tin does not
understand the concept of ranges and commands that can use them.

Iain
From: trsnyder@mcs.drexel.edu (Bob Snyder)
Newsgroups: news.software.readers
Subject: Re: Wanted: Mac NNTP reader, not Nuntius
Date: 26 Jan 93 19:45:39 GMT
Organization: ASCI

>>>>> "Charles" == Charles Menser <charles@shadow.peachnet.edu> writes:

Charles> I would like to find a mac based news reader (NNTP only, please).
Charles> Is Nuntius the only option?

There's also TheNews, NewsWatcher, and various HyperCard based readers
available from sumex-aim.stanford.edu.

Bob
From: ophof@SERVER.uwindsor.ca (Scott Ophof)
Newsgroups: news.software.readers
Subject: Re: TIN interface suggestion.
Date: 28 Jan 1993 17:34:50 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu


On 26 Jan 1993 08:04:13 GMT twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) said:
>In article <9301250854.AA01628@SERVER.uwindsor.ca> ophof@SERVER.uwindsor.ca (Scott Ophof) writes:
>>Now when user X invokes application A, the "translator" will
>>interpose itself between user & the application, and use table A1.
>>When User Z invokes application A, table A3 will be used (if user Z
>>built one, of course).
>This would probably work.  It might be something of a resource hog,
>however, and would require Sisyphian labors of configuration.

Betcha that such translate tables would be passed along to others,
thus reducing the work for many users.
Also, commands not redefined need not be included in the file;
they would just default.
There's of course no need to read the table each time a command is
given; read-once-at-invocation, and build a table in-memory for
reference purposes.
Another possibility would be to ONE translate table for a number of
applications, with (let's say) the first line like this:

   cmd = elm = trn = tin = ftp = telnet [..]

And the following lines would list the relevant translations, with a
blank meaning the default, and some (special) char meaning "not
supported"?  In other words, when "trn" is invoked, it would only
pick up the first and the third columns (in this example)...

Heck, maybe the translations could be compiled in, once a user was
satisfied enough?

Regards.
$$\    F. Scott Ophof

--------------------------->  I speak *only* for *myself*  <-----
My credo:  Computers exist for OUR benefit, NEVER vice-versa.