HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: wdstarr@athena.mit.edu (William December Starr)
Subject: Re: Obscenity law (US)
Organization: Northeastern Law, Class of '93
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 15:38:52 GMT


In article <1992Dec15.173524.15949@news.columbia.edu>, 
dan@cubmol.bio.columbia.edu (Daniel Zabetakis) said:

> > _If_ the law is written correctly... but isn't it more likely, in
> > real life, that the local politicians would [* * *] simply write
> > the laws so as to prevent all smut from ever being purveyed
> > legally anywhere within the borders of their fine town?  [wdstarr]
>
> The problem is that they can do this now, but with a criminal trial.
> Your local video store that has a small collection of porn available
> could be shut down, and the owner _arrested_ and charged with a crime.
>
> I'm saying to decriminalize porn in all cases, and to make the
> matter one of zoning.  It shouldn't be too difficult to write a
> zoning law that would stop people from zoning an industry out of
> business.  And to exempt local video stores in some way.

It's silly that we're arguing over this, since we're mostly in
agreement.  Certainly the criminal aspect of porn manufacture,
distribution and possession should be dumped, just as it should for any
victimless crime.  And while the sort-of-libertarian in me doesn't like
the idea of zoning, I have to admit that (a) I tend to support the
general goals which zoning is intended to pursue (e.g., no heavy
industry in bucolic residential areas) and (b) I can't think of ways to
achieve those goals that are noticeably less bad than zoning.

The problem is that zoning (along with many of its close relatives,
such as business licensing) is too often used to pursue a goal of which
I do not approve, namely the doctrine which, in honor of the recent
events in what used to be Yugoslavia, I'll call "moral cleansing."

As you said, "It shouldn't be too difficult to write a zoning law that
would stop people from zoning an industry out of business."  But unless
the whole zoning process is made subordinate to a law (or, better yet,
a constitutional doctrine) which requires zoning laws, in order to be
valid, to respect people's rights of privacy and freedom of association
and which forbids the use of zoning laws for the purpose of zoning an
industry out of business, you can bet the farm that that's how the laws
_will_ end up being written and used.  And while that situation might
be a slight improvement -- the people who want to sell porn would
merely be driven out of business, rather than driven out of business
and fined and thrown in jail -- it would still leave both those
entrepreneurs and the porn-consuming minority(?) out in the cold, their
rights trampled by wishes of the blue-node majority(?).

-- William December Starr <wdstarr@athena.mit.edu>

Xref: sparky alt.politics.sex:508 alt.politics.usa.misc:666
From: tob@world.std.com (Tom O Breton)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.sex,alt.politics.usa.misc
Subject: Re: Rape After Rape After Rape
Date: 19 Dec 92 20:06:11 GMT
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA

Greg:

> I see your point, Tom - but you can also add "Pedicentric" to messages of
> suffering in this country.  I don't know - I find it kind of sad really
> that the tragedy of murdered and tortured women and children is elevated to
> a higher plane than others for some reason.

Yes, that true.

        Tom

-- 
The Tom spreads its huge, scaly wings and soars into the wild sky...      
up...       up...     out of sight...   (tob@world.std.com)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.sex
From: moranc@woods.ulowell.edu
Subject: Re: Musings
Organization: University of Lowell
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 21:48:11 GMT

But aren't we "supposodly" free to be as stupis as we want to be without
being assaulted or raped?

cindy
Newsgroups: alt.politics.sex
From: greg@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Greg James)
Subject: Re: Snuff films that don't exist
Organization: The University of Calgary
	<1992Dec11.234216.19308@news.columbia.edu> <1gbcr4INN8ta@news.aero.org>
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 00:20:07 GMT

The Canadian police apparently found possible evidence of such a film. They
raided a mom&pop illegal pornography importation organization, and found a
whole bunch of stuff illegal in Canada: child porn, violence, etc. One customs
agent apparently said that their stuff was way worse than anything else he had
ever seen, including a film of a woman being violated with a large knife, and
apparently dying at the end of the film.
--
In Canada, room temperature IQs went down	| Greg James 
51 points in 1977.				| Computer Science Grad Student
						| University of Calgary
"Morals just ruin your weekend."		| greg@cpsc.ucalgary.ca

Xref: sparky alt.politics.sex:502 alt.politics.usa.misc:663
From: sherw@ocf.berkeley.edu (Gregory Sherwin)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.sex,alt.politics.usa.misc
Subject: Re: Rape After Rape After Rape
Date: 19 Dec 1992 00:52:23 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
NNTP-Posting-Host: locusts.berkeley.edu

In article <BzH7v3.6BG@world.std.com> tob@world.std.com (Tom O Breton) writes:
>Actually, it alienated me. In addition to its' message about the tragic
>suffering in Bosnia, it carried another message - only women's suffering is
>important. Which is to say, it was Feminocentric.
>
>We both know that men are being slaughtered in that troubled area, yet
>instead we focus on women. That bias really puts me off.
>
>Regardless, I do hope Bosnia gets some relief despite this.
>
>        Tom

I see your point, Tom - but you can also add "Pedicentric" to messages of
suffering in this country.  I don't know - I find it kind of sad really
that the tragedy of murdered and tortured women and children is elevated
to a higher plane than others for some reason.  it's all equally tragic,
yet I can't help but get the feeling from American media that the
sentiment is something along the lines of "this horrible accident befell
an innocent child - what a terrible tragedy" and "some old guy (or woman)
died in a fire - next up, 20 things you can do with those holiday leftovers...".
Kinda leaves me with the sick feeling that older people are expendable or
something.

greg
Newsgroups: alt.politics.sex
From: leecr@microsoft.com (Lee Crocker)
Subject: Text of CO amendment 2
Date: 14 Dec 92 04:19:42 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article <athos-121292123645@kip2-17.apple.com> athos@apple.com (Rick Eames) writes:
>
>Anyway, I would like to see the text of the amendment in Colorado.  From
>what I heard it simply states that they will not grant special privs to
>homosexuals.  If so, I don't see much problem with it.  I admit, however,
>that I am ignorant since I haven't read the actual text.

=====
NO PROTECTED STATUS BASED ON HOMOSEXUAL, LESBIAN, OR BISEXUAL ORIENTATION
Neither the State of Colorado, through any of its branches or departments,
nor any of its agencies, political subdivisions, municipalities or
school districts, shall enact, adopt, or enfoce any statute, regulation,
ordinance or policy whereby homosexual, lesbian, or bisexual orientation,
conduct, practices, or relationships shall constitute or otherwise be the
basis of or entitle a person or class of persons to have or claim any
minority status, quota preferences, protected status, or claim of
discrimination.
=====

-- 
Lee Daniel Crocker    | Free minds; free bodies; free trade.
leecr@microsoft.com   | Libertarian Party  1-800-682-1776
Newsgroups: alt.politics.sex
From: dan@cubmol.bio.columbia.edu (Daniel Zabetakis)
Subject: Re: Obscenity law (US)
Organization: Columbia University, Dept. of Biological Sciences.
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 01:33:24 GMT

In article <1go791INN3p4@gap.caltech.edu> peri@cco.caltech.edu (Michal Leah Peri) writes:
>dan@cubmol.bio.columbia.edu (Daniel Zabetakis) writes:
>
>
>
[about porn]

>Better yet:  legalize it, tax the hell out of it, and let the
>free market control it.
>
   Why tax it more than other magazines, videos, etc?

DanZ

-- 
This article is for entertainment purposes only. Any facts, opinions,
narratives or ideas contained herein are not necessarily true, and do
not necessarily represent the views of any particular person.
From: russell@Apple.COM (Russell Williams)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.sex
Subject: Re: Sexual Orientation Rights
Date: 12 Dec 92 01:20:39 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc, Cupertino, CA

In article <athos-091292231234@kip2-23.apple.com> athos@apple.com (Rick Eames) writes:
>Actually, some of us don't want homosexuals to have *less* rights than
>heterosexuals, we just want to make sure that homosexuals aren't declared a
>"minority" that will then be subject to things like Affirmative Action. 
>So, while I understand wanting "protection" from discrimination, I stronly
>disagree with the concept of minority status.

I'm not aware of any bill in which such status has been proposed, nor
am I aware of any gay rghts group that has publicly advocated such
status (apparently neither has the staff of NPR news). Can you quote
the language of any bill introduced into the U.S. congress or any
state legislature or any official statement from any major gay
organization that has proposed "protected class" status or
affirmative action for gays? 

The gay rights ordinances in the SF Bay Area, Oregon, and Colorado
just prohibit discrimination on the basis of sexual preference. The
religious right in these regions has alleged a push by gay people 
for "minority status", "special privileges" and "affirmative action" --
a push that doesn't exist. Unfortunately, the anti-gay forces have
used deliberately dishonest and fear-mongering advertising to convince
many people that such a gay agenda does exist.

The anti-gay agenda of these religious right groups is obvious on the surface. 
The anti-gay ordinances don't prohibit
"special status" for gays, they prohibit the passage of laws preventing
discrimination and have been specifically targeted against existing
ordinances prohibiting employment and housing discrimination against
gays. This clearly means that these groups support
employment and housing discrimination against gays. But their
agenda goes beyond even this, as the same groups backing the anti-gay
initiatives have taken such actions as trying to have books like
"Heather Has Two Mommies" removed from public libraries. They have also
objected to school curricula which advocate tolerance of homosexuals
or the children of homosexuals -- they claim that tolerance of homosexuals
is equivalent to acceptance of homosexuality as a "valid alternative
lifestyle". This they abhor, and explicitly attempted to prevent with 
the Colorado and Oregon anti-gay initiatives. 

These tactics have been described on NPR, in the San Jose Mercury, and
in the Newsletter on Intellectual Freedom (published by the Intellectual
Freedom Round Table of the American Library Assocation).
-- 
Russell Williams
Not speaking for Apple Computer
Newsgroups: alt.politics.sex
From: claire@brahms.udel.edu (Claire Elizab Barna)
Subject: Re: Empowerment
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 20:09:09 GMT

In article <Bz7ExJ.G2y@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> branwen@sage.cc.purdue.edu ( ) writes:
>      Dale:
>
>You defined empowerment as the flowering of self in opposition to others.
>You then went on to say that there is a net constant of power in the world,
>and that to gain power one must extract it from the power of others.
>
>I would like to address these statements.  I believe they are a part of the 
>problem, and not of the solution.  If there is a net constant of power in
>the world, one could not account for the relative growth in overall power
>from one generation to the next.  People a free to do more with their lives than
>ever before in history.  I one can only gain power at the expense of another, 
>then you are forcing by definition a system whereby domination is the only form
>of power.  I do not accept that condition.  Power does not have to be defined
(some deleted)
>                                             Karen
>
VERY WELL SAID.

C.B.


Newsgroups: alt.politics.sex
From: branwen@sage.cc.purdue.edu ( )
Subject: bathing together
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 12:03:21 GMT

      I would strongly recommend, when bathing together, that you use
any no-Mr.Bubble bubble bath.  Additionally, you should fill the sink with
ice and provide a bottle of champagne and two (or at least as many as will
be bathing) glasses.  Hooking up a cd player for background noise is nice
too.
      Since this is a politics.sex newsgroup, I would like to make all this
relevant by warning you not to do this at a public bathing facility (if
you even have any in your town) because "it ain't legal" if you take your 
clothes off.  And if you are putting in a larger tub into your own home, you
must first inquire as to what building permits you will need.  If you get a
home improvement loan from an FDIC bank, you also cannot accept any 
volunteer labor because of the Davis-Bacon Act which requires all funded
building projects to pay workers prevailing union wages.  It is true.  A
town in Oregon got caught actually letting the townspeople build their own
library with funds that were guaranteed by the federal government.
      (Yes, it is true, but I am being quite fecetious in brining it up!)

                          Bored at 7:00 am!  Karen
From: branwen@sage.cc.purdue.edu ( )
Subject: Empowerment
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 15:27:18 GMT

      Dale:

You defined empowerment as the flowering of self in opposition to others.
You then went on to say that there is a net constant of power in the world,
and that to gain power one must extract it from the power of others.

I would like to address these statements.  I believe they are a part of the 
problem, and not of the solution.  If there is a net constant of power in
the world, one could not account for the relative growth in overall power
from one generation to the next.  People a free to do more with their lives than
ever before in history.  I one can only gain power at the expense of another, 
then you are forcing by definition a system whereby domination is the only form
of power.  I do not accept that condition.  Power does not have to be defined
as power over.  There is also power through.  Cooperation is the greatest form
of power of which I can conceive.  Cooperation provides for the generation of
power where the sum total of the power exercised is greater than the sum of the
individual exercising of power of the individual contibuters.
So long as we envision a system whereby women can only become empowered by
taking power away from men, we will never achieve anything.  I do not want
to dominate man.  I do not want to be dominated by man.  I want to be equal to
man in a world that is significantly different from the world in which we
currently operate.  I do not want my worth to be judged only as it compares
to the worth of another.  I do not want my ability to be judged only as it is
compared to others.  And I do not want my power to be limited by the extent to
which I have control over others.
I reject the definition of power you have provided.  To accept your premises
is to create a challenge which is self-defeating.
Empowerment is the acquisition of control over one's own life, as it applies
to the economic, social, and political realms.  If my standing or ability to act
is measured only as it compares to another's; if my power is only measured in 
the sense that I can disempower others; if I can only become unopressed by
becoming the oppressor, then I reject power altogether.
I do not reject power.  I seek it.  But I do not accept that as I gain power,
it is only through the disempowering of others.  I will not defeat my cause 
through its success.
                                             Karen
From: dan@cubmol.bio.columbia.edu (Daniel Zabetakis)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.sex
Subject: Re: Snuff films that don't exist
Date: 11 Dec 92 23:42:16 GMT
Organization: Columbia University, Dept. of Biological Sciences.

In article <Dec.6.21.23.41.1992.21349@pilot.njin.net> tspencer@pilot.njin.net (Thomas Spencer IV) writes:
>
>tob@world.std.com (Tom O Breton) writes:
>
>|Well, that's "what a snuff film is", but as I understand it, the existence of
>|snuff films is a myth; an urban legend.
>
>      While the wide dissemination of these films certainly doesn't exist,
>I suspect that some have been made.  Just from the rise of the idea, I suspect
>it was done.  That they are easily found, or even well known is truely a myth.
>Finding one is probably impossible for 999 out of 1000 people, and the
>last person would be able to do so with great difficulty.
>
> 
     This was hashed out in talk.rape not too long ago. There is not a single
example of a snuff film reported anywhere that anyone can find. Screw 
magazine offered a $20,000 reward for evidence of snuff porn. There
just isn't any evidence. So aside from the statment "Somebody _must_ have
done it", there is no reason to talk about snuff films.

danZ

-- 
This article is for entertainment purposes only. Any facts, opinions,
narratives or ideas contained herein are not necessarily true, and do
not necessarily represent the views of any particular person.  
Newsgroups: alt.politics.sex
From: rsr4936@cc.utah.edu (Reay, Robert S.)
Subject: Re: Death penalty
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Organization: University of Utah Computer Center
Date: 11 Dec 1992 16:50 MST  

In article <Bz2Ds1.5Jz@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>, branwen@sage.cc.purdue.edu ( ) writes...
{In article <1992Dec8.154924.3716@ns.network.com> gally@barsoom.network.com (Jerry Gally) writes:
{>>     I would rather one innocent man die with twenty guilty murderers,
{>>than one guilty murderer be set free to kill again.  
{>
{>If one innocent man dies, one guilty murderer (society) is set free to kill
{>again ...  think about it ...

Not to mention the fact that if the innocent person dies, that still 
leaves the original guilty person out there as well.

However, if we suddenly decided it was OK to let the innocent die 
instead of let the guilty go free (through such means as no appeals, 
giving the police more leeway in shooting first/questioning later, 
etc.) it would be much easier for the smart people who understood the 
system to obtain and keep power by framing everybody they don't agree 
with.  "Yeah, I saw the guy I'm running against kill that child, that'
s the ticket!"

		rob


Newsgroups: alt.politics.sex
From: an2353@anon.penet.fi (Snuck Man)
Subject: Sexual/Non-Sexual Indecent Exposure
X-Anonymously-To: alt.politics.sex
Organization: Anonymous contact service
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 22:41:24 GMT


What Exactly is the legal seperation point between
a persons indecent exposure for a SEXUAL purpose
and plain indecent exposure ??

How does one determine this? and is it different for male and female
offenders?

Snuck Man
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Newsgroups: alt.politics.sex
From: nagle@netcom.com (John Nagle)
Subject: Re: Snuff films that don't exist
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 04:39:56 GMT

robert@aero.org (R. S. Statsinger) writes:
>I remember when the snuff film concept first started to get some media
>attention, there was someone charged with ostensibly producing a film
>that was alleged to be snuff. I don't remember much else, except a
>quote from the guy: "I'd be crazy to tell you she was killed.....but I'd 
>be crazy to tell you she wasn't....."

       I vaguely remember that controversy.  I think "Time" or "Newsweek"
did a story about it.  I remembered seeing it on the shelf of a local video
store, so I looked there this evening, and there it was, in the
"Horror" section: "Snuff", copyright 1986 by Video Warehouse Inc, Neptune, NJ.
80 minutes, color.  The box reads "Banned in 32 states." "The rumor was 
that a woman was actually killed during the filming of this picture 
- WAS SHE?"

       I didn't rent it, so I don't know what it really contains, but
it sounds like a low-budget horror flick with a wierd promotional angle.

       It's a commentary on American values that this film, classified as
a "sex" film, horrified people, but when classified as a "horror" film, it
sits alongside such cultural icons as "The Texas Chainsaw Massacre" and 
"Friday the 13th", attracting little attention. 

					John Nagle
Newsgroups: alt.politics.sex,alt.politics.usa.misc
From: tob@world.std.com (Tom O Breton)
Subject: Re: Rape After Rape After Rape
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 22:30:39 GMT

Shahid:

> I hope this article makes you uncomfortable.  I hope this article makes you
> act.

Actually, it alienated me. In addition to its' message about the tragic
suffering in Bosnia, it carried another message - only women's suffering is
important. Which is to say, it was Feminocentric.

We both know that men are being slaughtered in that troubled area, yet
instead we focus on women. That bias really puts me off.

Regardless, I do hope Bosnia gets some relief despite this.

        Tom

-- 
The Tom spreads its huge, scaly wings and soars into the wild sky...      
up...       up...     out of sight...   (tob@world.std.com)
From: robert@aero.org (R. S. Statsinger)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.sex
Subject: Re: Snuff films that don't exist
Date: 12 Dec 1992 00:47:32 GMT
Organization: Your Guess Is As Good As Mine...
NNTP-Posting-Host: itro7s.aero.org

In article <1992Dec11.234216.19308@news.columbia.edu> dan@cubmol.bio.columbia.edu (Daniel Zabetakis) writes:
|     This was hashed out in talk.rape not too long ago. There is not a single
|example of a snuff film reported anywhere that anyone can find. Screw 
|magazine offered a $20,000 reward for evidence of snuff porn. There
|just isn't any evidence. So aside from the statment "Somebody _must_ have
|done it", there is no reason to talk about snuff films.
|
|danZ

Who needs a reason? This is Usenet.....

I remember when the snuff film concept first started to get some media
attention, there was someone charged with ostensibly producing a film
that was alleged to be snuff. I don't remember much else, except a
quote from the guy: "I'd be crazy to tell you she was killed.....but I'd 
be crazy to tell you she wasn't....."

|This article is for entertainment purposes only. Any facts, opinions,
|narratives or ideas contained herein are not necessarily true, and do
|not necessarily represent the views of any particular person.  

Not even those of the author?

			R.S.
Newsgroups: alt.politics.sex
From: tleylan@pegasus.com (Tom Leylan)
Subject: Re: Should Packwood be pardoned?
Organization: Pegasus,  Honolulu
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 02:36:46 GMT

agoodrid@vaxa.weeg.uiowa.edu (Stephen Klautky) asks:

<should Bob Packwood resign>

<should theoretical Bill Packwood resign>

Let me answer both questions in one fell swoop.  Of course not.

Just post the date and time (and if you can find it, the name) of the
law that makes flirting or being an ass illegal.

America is truly the joke to end all jokes.

tom