From: eugene@amelia.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: [l/m 6/3/92] Questions on conditions and travel	DW (13/28) XYZ
Followup-To: poster
Organization: NAS Program, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 92 11:20:11 GMT
Reply-To: eugene@amelia.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)

Panel 13

Travel questions:

Rec.backcountry is perhaps among the newsgroups where a certain limitation
of information takes place.  The situation is similar to reading a book
or watching a movie and knowing the ending.  Most net newsgroups
encourage the free flow of information.  Not nearly so r.b.  Why?  Because
some of us realize that is where some of the "adventure" lies.

Several problems come about:
1) What are the conditions in XXX location (e.g., Yellowstone National Park)?

Use the telephone.  Information from the Park tends to be far superior
and more currently knowledgeable than most net information, and
it comes from an official source.

2) Another comes with the trashing of so-called "secret" or popular
places.  It will not take you long to realize this, and it will not
take you long to become protective of your own information.  With the
popularity of outdoor recreation comes the problem of loving the
wilderness to death.  A common activity is ignoring (not posting) trip
reports.  Reports are long (expenditure of poster's time) and regarded with
some sensitivity.  Some people regard those posting trip reports as having
arrogance as if they were the ones responsible for finding and "opening"
up new terrain.  This does happen on rare occasion, but you will be able to
tell otherwise.  Save yourself the time and trouble.

"Yeah, secret.  For how long?"

There is nothing inherently "wrong" about asking where to go or visit
or post trip reports. BUT, there is an important environmental under-current
which underlies the way many readers read this group.  This might seem
hard on the beginning outdoors person.  One reason for this is that the
more senior outdoors people have seen a few of their favorite areas
trashed over time.  Climbers, backpackers, boatmen, skiers, cavers, etc. the
comment has been voiced by all at some time.

One counter-argument is that a) the more people who know about nice
places, then b) the more people there are appreciate and can defend
the wilderness.  This is known as "the greatest good for the greatest number"
argument which has existed over a century.  The problem is that this argument
does not scale, and it gave way to the "loving the wilderness to death"
counter argument of the 1930/40/60s/70s.

The solution isn't simply to broadcast a request, the answer is to ask
individuals on a one-on-one basis.  They will tend to be more polite.
Determine their location from the message header.

3) Broadcast information is suspect due to the wide variety of skill-levels.
If you are beginning, you might be getting advice from some one assuming
too much experience on your part.  Remember that advice taken here, improperly
might KILL you, and YOU otherwise HAVE NO LEGAL RECOURSE when you are dead.
Such posts might begin with "I hear that...," "I have not been, but...,"
"I am not certain, but..."  More than once, armchair climbers and
others have given dangerous advice.  If you take it, that's your life.
Think about.

4) If your system has a Distribution: field, limit it to the smallest
distribution possible (local, state, country, continent, etc.).
[E.g., ba [bay area], ca [california], usa, na [north america], world]
You will look silly on a 'world' distribution when you ask about a
location a short distance from you.

5)  "Where should I go?"  "What are THE BEST places?" posts.
Points: making your own decisions and planning where to go are
an integral part of the learning process.  One noted wilderness
historian compared Guidebooks to sexual "How-to" books.  Asking too
much like like turning the process into mechanical sex.  You should
figure these things out for yourself as this is part of a critical skill
you need to pick up.  You go there because YOU want to, not on some other
person's recommendation.  Besides, how you YOU know you won't get in trouble
when you get there?  "That way, Mr. Sulu...."

6) What you might do is inquire via email or post BUT offer to not broadcast
the information.  The issue is broadcast.

7) Other groups call this sort of information "Spoilers" or "Spoiler
information." (E.g. rec.arts.movies, etc.)
They place "Spoiler" warnings in text along with control characters (^L)
to offer to halt reading beyond a certain point.  Not all news readers
can handle this control information.  And a few cases, the news reader
gets sent into bad states.

Note that this is a description, not a prescription.

It's a jungle out there.

Rec.backcountry IS a wilderness compared to the urbane exchange of
information in other newsgroups.  You have to watch out for some posters
(including the fellows who composed these panels).  They represent
the wild and untamed part of the network.  Be warned!  Do not feed
the animals artificial foods.

Lions and tigers and bears, oh my!

-- the appointed rec.backcountry.nimng ranger
	Duties:
		Not to rescue beginners in the mire.

TABLE OF CONTENTS of this chain:

13/ Questions on conditions and travel		<* THIS PANEL *>
14/ Dedication to Aldo Leopold
15/ Leopold's lot.
16/ Morbid backcountry/memorial
17/ Information about bears
18/ Poison ivy, frequently ask, under question
19/ Lyme disease, frequently ask, under question
20/ "Telling questions" backcountry Turing test
21/ AMS
22/ Words from Foreman and Hayduke
23/ A bit of song (like camp songs)
24/ What is natural?
25/ A romantic notion of high-tech employment
26/ Other news groups of related interest, networking
27/ Films/cinema references
28/ References (written)
1/ DISCLAIMER
2/ Ethics
3/ Learning I
4/ learning II (lists, "Ten Essentials," Chouinard comments)
5/ Summary of past topics
6/ Non-wisdom: fire-arms topic circular discussion
7/ Learning (3)
8/ Fletcher's Law of Inverse Appreciation and advice
9/ Water Filter wisdom
10/ Words from Rachel Carson
11/ Snake bite
12/ Netiquette
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry