From: bu008@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Brandon D. Ray)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.libertarian
Subject: Re: Objections to the Pledge?  (was: NatCom Endorses Facelift...)
Date: 26 Jan 1993 08:08:41 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
Reply-To: bu008@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Brandon D. Ray)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, starr@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Tim Starr) says:

>In article <1jt6a7INNk8m@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> bu008@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Brandon D. Ray) writes:
>}
>}In a previous article, sconley@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Stephen M Conley) says:
>}
>}>Would someone please post some of the objections to the pledge?  I didn't 
>}>really have a problem with it, and I'm curious as to why anyone would object 
>}>(note that I wouldn't have signed the pledge without that key word 
>}>"initiation"...is it that there are some versions of the pledge without that?).
>}>
>}>--
>}>Steve Conley                       "Jupiter:  America's dairy land!" --MST3K
>}>sconley@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu    | Disclaimer:  OSU is too damn big to
>}>Don't blame me, I voted Libertarian! |              have any opinions at all.
>}>
>}1.)  It doesn't protect us from anything, as an unscrupulous person who 
>}wishes to co-opt the party can simply lie.
>
>So we should make it so that such scum don't even have to lie?  Besides, it
>reduces misunderstanding to have libertarianism defined.  Someone who doesn't
>oppose coercion isn't a libertarian.  There's no reason why we should allow
>such people to be LP members.
>
If it doesn't serve any useful function, why keep it?
>
>}2.)  It scares away some people because of its resemblance to a loyalty
>}oath.  
>
>This resemblance is only superficial.  People wouldn't be scared away from it
>if people who wanted non-libertarians to be members didn't keep telling
>people it had this resemblance.
>
To you the resemblance is superficial...to many other people it is not.
People of good conscience, who I am proud to call fellow libertarians.  I
believe you read libernet and LPUS; if I am correct, you have seen Stuart
Reges' posts on this issue.  If Stuart is not a libertarian, then neither
am I, and I score 100/90 on the WSPQ.
>
>}3.)  There would be a few people who could not sign it because their religion
>}does not permit oaths.
>
>And many of those monetary supporters of the LP who haven't signed up have
>done so on exactly this ground.
>
So we should exclude these people from formal membership over an issue like
this?  What does it gain us to do this?  And how many people are unable to
swallow their pride sufficiently to give money to an organization which will
not admit them as a full-fledged member?
>
>}4.)  If taken literally (as it often is) it cannot be signed in good 
>}conscience by minarchists, since *any* gov't involves at least the 
>}possibility of the initiation of the use of force...for one thing, you have
>}to oppose all taxation, for any reason, in order to be true to the oath...
>}yet a person could be willing to accept limited taxation as a necessary
>}evil, still accept *every* other plank in the platform, and not be
>}able to sign the pledge.
>
>Merely because people are inperfectly faithful to a principle is no reason
>to abandon it.
>
To me, adhering to a principle to this degree borders on fanaticism.  In any
case, in what way are you required to relax your fidelity to principle (as
you perceive it) if we cease requiring people to sign an oath to join the
party?
>
>}5.)  It may be illegal, in some states, once we have gained recognized
>}status as a political party.
>
>This is a new one on me!  Where?
>
Again, if you have been reading libernet and LPUS (perhaps I am mistaken),
you have already read about this.  It has been asserted that the state of
Missouri, to give one example, does not permit this sort of oath as a
condition of being on a political party's county central committee.
> 
>
>Tim Starr - Renaissance Now! - Think Universally, Act Selfishly
>starr@genie.slhs.udel.edu
>
>"True greatness consists in the use of a powerful understanding to enlighten
>oneself and others." - Francois Marie Arouet Voltaire
>

-- 
******************************************************************************
The opinions expressed by the author are insightful, intelligent and very
carefully thought out.  It is therefore unlikely that they are shared by the
University of Iowa or Case Western Reserve University.
Newsgroups: alt.politics.libertarian