From: txam1@isuvax.iastate.edu
Subject: Re: Racism in SF2
Reply-To: txam1@isuvax.iastate.edu
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 21:37:36 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.154247.1428@mercury.unt.edu>, west@ponder.csci.unt.edu (Bruce West) writes:
>In article <Bxutn5.LLM@news.iastate.edu> txam1@isuvax.iastate.edu writes:
>>>Ok let me clear up a few things. PC is not and will not ever get to the point
>>of extreme censorship. Nor will it come to a point where every word you say
>
>    I wouldn't say "extreme censorship" - but it has already taken the form
>of censorship.  I don't know if you've ever headr Howard Stern's radio show,
>but he has been fined $105,000 bucks for FCC violations (not being PC).
>This is a direct government to shut-down a successful speaker (he's what you
>would call a middle-upper class white male).  I consider just the tip of
>iceberg if this PC shit is stomped out.  FREEDOM OF SPEECH means just that -
>the PEOPLE of this country can figure out what THEY think is correct.  The
>ways they do this is.... a) change the channel  b) don't vote for the person.
-----Then to comes an issue of the things deemed moral and immoral by the social 
majority. You mean to tell me that you think censorship of EVERY kind is
wrong? This cannot be. Ok what if the KKK was aloud to put up bilboards
all over the United States, somehow get control of a couple of networks,
and gain greater political and social infulence than they hold now?
Are you saying that this wouldnt effect the views and subconsiously get into
the minds of young white boys and girls? If you've noticed, A parent can't
shield his or her child from every aspect of communication in this nation.
You cant overlook the fact that some forms o censorship are out there to
protect our best intrests. Then again you have to look at the other side?      
You cant overlook the KKK's right to be able to put up a bilboard anywhere
they can or want. (within the law of course) What do you think? Cenorship
good for the people as a whole or bad for the people as a hole in that case?
>
>   Communism?  whatever man.
>
>>that has existed in this country even before PC was even thought about on the
>>national level. Since when have people with a theme or thought that didnt
>
>   DEFINITELY TRUE!  And we must get some TRUE freedom of speech - instead
>of simply restricting it further!  The end does NOT justify the means.
>
>>represent the views of main stream white america been able to speek,act
>>or do anything without facing the same scrutiny that is now placed on
>>alot of you non-pc people out there. How many gays have been bashed?
>
>   Hmmm... Boyz in the Hood, Malcolm X, Public Access television, Saturday
>Night Live, Fox, Howard Stern's morning radio show, National Review magazine,
>PBS, pamphlets, flyers, NAACP, KKK, and many many more.  There are many
>"fuck the establishment" messages out there -- unfortunetly most are being
>attacked on the BASIS of not being PC!  The "black movies" have been 
>praised by critics...although I would bet most "main stream american whites"
>could care less or don't like it.  This whole PC thing is just another way
>to censor the very group that speaks against censorship.  I would bet 
>10 to 1 odds EVERYONE on here saying "PC sucks" also is completely
>PRO-speech for minority and oppresed groups.  Again, fight the root cause -
>don't around with the PC distraction.
>(I am not overly concerned with PC. I am do, am, and will fight for not just
freedom of speech, i want freedom period! PC serves some purposes right
now.I don't like the road it can POTENTIALY head down but i dont believe that
it will go that far. The critics are not praising "black movies" becuase they
think that they are especially great. Until Malcom X what so called "black
movie" actor or cenamatographer was even thought about for an award
(other than the color purple which already had been played in by black
actors and actress that had already been accepted by white america?
Oprah, Danny Glover, Whoopi Goldberg, etc.) of any kind. What else can they do
but praise the movies? What the hell does Gene Siskel know about life in
the streets of south central Los Angeles? (funny huh?)  How can you fairly
critic something that you cannot relate to? Or dont  know anything about for
that matter.  Unlimited movies from hollywood had dipicted blacks and
other minorities (namely hispanics) as drug dealears, pimps, hookers, maids
gangsters, stupid, slang talking, uneducated, (need i go on?). There is no
way you can say that this hasnt subconsiouly effected the collective view
of whites in this nation. I know it has! Here at Iowa State (a predominantly
white Universty, a false sense of fear, distrust, and superiority still
exists among many. If you need examples you obviosly want to read a novel of
some sort cuz i could go on an on (like am doing anyway). For a time
the only Blacks you could see on the news where getting arrested (with minor
exeptions). Who controls all this? 




>>How many people have been beaten, shot killed and tortured for speaking
>>out against racism?  All you people that are turning your backs on PC
>
>   And now these same people will be labeled as not bieng PC.
>>need to realize that if there was equality in every aspect of our society
>>there would be no need for PC. PC is just a small step in the evolution
>
>   EXACTLY!  This should tell you PC does not work toward equality, but
againstit.
When there is equality there wont be a need for PC. That is my main point.
I admit there are groups that are taking PC to extrems out of there own selfish
desires. But if the government worked in the way it should have this wouldnt
occur. Do you actually believe you can work within this system to create
change? Not! The government (mainly big business) controls ALL the information
we recieve. TV, radio, and the Press. While there may be journalist out there
who have individualized ideas, those ideas still have to go through the top
which is unfortunatley controlled by the elite few 85% percent of the
major news papers in this country are controlled by 2 people! count them 2!
The same guy owns the Washington Post, Chicago Tribune, New York Times, the
Los Angeles Sun, (need i go on). These guys have the power to influence
the way that Mainstreammerica thinks. If you had read in all Newsweek, your
major paper, and saw on televison that Clinton's raped at young girl when
he was 27 woul he be president? Nope. The point is this. PC like everything
else has its bad and good points. It is just a PHASE (in my opinion).
The system of behind the scences political control, lobbyists, and special
intrest groups is in tact so stongly that a vote of any kind will not 
restore or do anything for this country that will be suffiently positive
enough to bring any kind of real political power to the common man.
When i say revolution people automatically think violence. This is not 
nessicarily the case. Although it may be required to bring change its not
completely nessacary. Revolution is not always bad. Hell its usually good 
for that matter. But america has been brought up and socailized to think
that in the middle is good left or right is bad. That why many people who
may have right or leftist views still consider themselves moderates or liberals
and sometimes even conservative. Everyone belives in there own freedom of
speech but not everyone doesnt believe in everyonelses freedom of speech.
I have a little survey i'll mail you if you want to take the social test
to tell you whether or not your views are really true to your political and
or social classification. 

>>of this society. People are out for change. People of all kinds are out to
>>put a fucking end to this social ignorance that infects, affects, and retards
>>this country. There are only 2 types of change; 1. Evolution, 2.Revolution.
>
>   You are a prime example of this social ignorance.  You remind me of a
>young Malcom X before his enlightenment.  I just hope when you see the light
>you won't be afraid to change - cause you seem like an intelligent guy.  And
>the last thing we need is intelligent people pushing this PC concept that, 
>without a doubt, will be turned against us like every other so called
>"necessary measure" has been in the past.  YOU CAN'T DRAW A LINE IN FREE
>SPEECH - ONCE YOU DO THE LINE WILL BE MOVED ON YOU!  There is a line right
>now, it must be ERASED - not just moved around.
--There has never been freedom of speech. And we are never gonna get it
until there is a change made in the government. Freedom of Speech has become
a moral issue. ANd in that sense it CANT be comprimised. So that fight will go
on. True freedom i think is a step in the right dir for freedom of speech.
True freedom for all is when everyone can be treated in the same way. By every
one else. WHEN everyones mind is free. Then we can start to progress as at 
a rate that is unheard of in the minds of this nation's people. 

>>Any close - minded, indifferent, conservative asshole can call me a communist.
>>Thats the easy way out. Any body with open eyes can see that this country
>>needs a big assed adjustment. As the consciousness of this country rises
>
>   Point agreed.  But again, the adjustment is greater then what you call
>for.  The line must be erased, not moved.  Attack the root, not the symptom.
>
>>the socially igonrant as well as the culturally indifferent will feel more
>>and more pressure. This post isn't directed to any one person its directed
>>to anyone who is foolish enough to think that this country is as good as it 
>>should be to its people. Its also directed to anyone who thinks that
>>he was ever free enough to do or say whatever he wanted to do in this country
>>regardless of who he offended. Igonrance is not bliss.
>
>   We need uncensored television - there is a good start for your fight.  Maybe
>just settle for European standards.  We are the "land of freedom", yet are more
>censored than many societies.  Abolish the FCC.  And, I know its a crazy though,
>maybe do what the contitution says.  It's a real simple, small, well-written
>document and I recomend you read it.  It's unreal.  For every Point in the
>Bill of Rights you can probably name atleast 3 organizations or laws in 
>direct contradiction off the top of your head.  
>   Rather than getting into all the SIDE issues, like PC, that THEY have laid
>out for you (make no mistake, PC comes from some serious pro-censorship
>ultra-right groups, and somehow intelligent people got snowed into it), maybe
>spend your time v. the groups IN DIRECT CONTRADICTION TO THE CONSTITUTION. 
>The Constitution is one hell of a great set of rules for freedom, although its
>not perfect (that's why we can make amendments).
>   A few first steps are VOTE INDEPENDENT.  Kick the shit out of Congress.
>Vote for Perot.  Get involved.  Stomp out and boycott censorship wherever
>you see it!  Support censored groups!  If the KKK needs a place to speak see
>what you can do!  This is a matter of principle dammit!  If someone finally
>gets the balls to realease an NC-17 movie in theaters -- SEE IT!  Make it
>a blockbuster, no matter how bad it is.  Get some chains going and flood you
>congressman with letters.  Set your computer up to print it out weekly.
>   This is OUR country - and our government is fucking us in ways never 
>imagined!  PC is in no way shape or form the answer, but a symptom of the
>problem.  You want a real change?  Stop voting for politics!  Stop voting for
>your same brain-dead congressman.  I fucking love the way "78% of the people
>want change", Clinton wins on change, BUT CONGRESS STAYS THE SAME!  What the
>hell?!?  My theory is the majority of people don't know who their encumbant
>is, so they didn't HOW to "vote the rascals out."  It's my only explanation.
>Anyway, get out and DO something - and stump out this PC shit before it
>spreads as censorship, or it will become a war between anti-white racism and
>anti-minority racism!  A good way out is to combine the anti-PC movement
>with the anti-cencorship movement and the cival rights movement -- cause they
>are all the same damn thing!  
( I did vote for Perot. But again i dont think that he is the answer. I think
that he could offer a change in the way things worked (which is about all your
vote can do for you these days anyway. In case you had noticed you vote doesnt
mean a damned thing. I voted for Perot cuz i feel at least he has the money
and the power to speak for himself and think for himself. Right now Clinton
does not give a fuck about you and me. He is worring about how he is gonna
fulfill his obligations to all the rich mutherfuckers that donated money to his

campaign. (thats the same shit that happend to bush and he ended up not bieng
able to do what he said he wanted to do for the people. Thats why his ass is
gone. Only if the economy was good for the rich and themiddle class does
the President get to stay twice (thats the new trend i think). Fuck the poor
fuck the minority. Hell who needs em. They always vote democratic anyway
Thats what the government thinks and knows.> i'll have more to say on this
i just gotta go to class now.
>>Jason Gregory
>>So. Political Science
>>Iowa State University
>
>Jason West
>CS guy.
>
>BTW:  As far a big brother watching, believe me he is - but that's a  different
>topic.  But I'll tell you right now I can get all your addresses, SS number,
>credit record, criminal record, working record, and some personal history. 
>This too is a cival rights issue.(How long do oyu think its been like that?)

>
>pps:  Don't respond by email -- i don't get my mail right now for some reason.

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