HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.bi
Subject: Re: Breeders and other epithets
Date: 21 Jul 92 20:41:43 GMT
Organization: Eris's Restaurant

In article <1992Jul21.160750.19179@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
>It depends on the point you want to make.  I have no objection to
>being called a "monosexual"--again, in the context of "bi pride".
>I mean, I have many women friends, but I wouldn't know what to do
>with them in bed.  If you tried to use it disparagingly outside of
>that context, I'd have to ask you what you thought was so awful about
>what I am.  But mostly, I'd understand the context.  It's a tweak,
>a slight "dig" at what you are and I'm not.

Sure - it's monosexism, not monosexuality, that's the problem.  And
I tend not to use "mono" or "monosexual" as a put-down - I'd feel
just as bad about hearing someone say "mono" in a disparaging
context as, say, "man" or "dyke".  There are good monos and there
are bad monos, just like with everything else.

>Bi the way, has anyone ever known a "bisexual" who is primarily
>homosocial (if you will)?  Every bisexual I know has a MOTOS on
>hir arm but also professes interest in MOTSS. :-)

Hmmmm... why the quotes round "bisexual", Steve?  There are a lot
of reasons why more of the bifolk that you know have MOTOS primary
relationships: perhaps you don't know many bifolk (but I doubt
that); perhaps they were in long-term MOTOS relationships before
they came out as bi; maybe you've just got a sampling problem :)
Seriously, though: "homosocial" I'd interpret as "socialised
primarily with MOTSS".  I can't claim that for myself - I don't
choose my friends on the basis of their sex or sexuality, though
an increasingly large proportion of my friends do seem to be
coming out as bi (make of that what you will) - but my primary
relationship is with a man, and, if we ever do meet up with you,
I guess you'll be glad to see him on my arm (or me on his, you
never know).

		mad, bad, and missing him badly
		Kay
-- 
6'2", dark short hair, blue eyes, bisexual and horny as ....
Kay Dekker, Dept of Industrial Design, Coventry University, Coventry UK
37 Old Winnings Road, Keresley Village, Coventry   |B0 f t+ g++ k++! s+ e r p!
Phone: +44 203 838668 (work) +44 203 337865 (home) |Deflowerer-of-innocents
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: coren@osf.org (Robert Coren)
Subject: RE: the b-word
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 17:10:27 GMT

In article <28JUL92.18364204@enh.nist.gov>, aberson@enh.nist.gov writes:
> In a previous article, thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance) wrote:
> ... (BTW, the con is lovely! Sim looks like Jesus would
> >if he were a '90's queer,
> 
> Or so I've been told...but when my hair loses shape and falls over my face
> I'm told I look more like Cousin It.

Hmm... with "bear" as an established physical type, every time I
looked at Sim I thought "lion". [That's a compliment.]

> Many said I looked least like everyone
> expected, whatever that means.

Oh, everyone always says that. It doesn't mean anything.

> >Nelson is *TALL*,
> 
> Very, and quite cute, too.

Second the motion. (I'm sure everyone who was there is astonished.)

> Had a fabulous time!

Me too. planning to post a "retrospective" when I get a little more
time...
	Robert
Organization: University of Maine System
Date: Wednesday, 22 Jul 1992 16:41:07 EDT
From: Ailsa N.T. Murphy <IO81409@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Breeders and kikes
 <92202.191537IO81409@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> <thaaang.711740261@odin>

that is EXACTLY my point.  assuming straight people are clueless
is JUST as stereotyping as assuming whatever it is people assume
about jewish people (i never heard it, as there were TONS of
jewish kids in my high school).  i went about doing that, and not
only made life more difficult for myself, but also sometimes
assumed that someone was clueless and straight when they were in
fact clued and gay!  i just treat being a lesbian as being totally
normal and appropriate to mention in conversation when it comes
up.  i've never reaped any negative repercussions from it, and in
fact a couple of my friends who are high schoolers credit me with
helping to make them non-homophobic.

i assumed my mom was a clueless straight person, and it turned
out that she had a number of gay best friends, had had a biwoman
make a pass at her once and wasn't fazed by it, and had no
problems at all with my homosexuality.

i stand by what i said.  for any stereotype you can dig up,
you can find at least ONE person who fits it.  but assuming
that members of ANY group all fit this steroetype is bigotry,
even if i do it myself.  (esp. as regard men, but that is
anotehr topic...)  i just admit that i am, in some cases,
prejudiced.  i'm working on it, though.

                                    -ailsa
--
It's not what you got, it's what you give           _______________
It ain't the life you want, it's the life you live. \    DYKE    /
It's not what you got, it's what you give             \ PRIDE! /
And it ain't what it's not, but what it is.             \    /
(IO81409@maine.maine.edu or wang.com!ailanth!ailsa)       \/
From: IO81409@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (Ailsa N.T. Murphy)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: the b-word
Date: 20 Jul 92 23:36:52 GMT
Article-I.D.: MAINE.92202.193652IO81409
 <TWPIERCE.92Jul15123111@garlic.cs.amherst.edu>
 <1992Jul15.190310.5157@spdcc.com>
 <1992Jul16.171819.16522@mtdiablo.Concord.CA.US> <17083@autodesk.COM>
Organization: University of Maine System


 gee, and to think i could have missed ths lovely, lovely thread.

it isn't just straights that resent "breeder" as an epithet.  i
generally respond to it about as if someone with whom i otherwise
had solidarity callsa someone a cunt.  that is me you are insulting,
and i do not appreciate it.  i really would rather not be reminded
that many radical lesbians will never consider me a real lesbian
because i haev a heterosexual history, because i haev a child,
because i have fucked men in any other than a rape sitution.  i don't
lie having my nose rubbed in the fact that the theorists that i
otherwise respect most have no respect for mothers, lesbian or not
(see julia penelope's _call me lesbian_ for an example).  i resent
being insulted in what is often a conversation that i otherwise
agree with.

i am a breeder.  i bucked a lot of pressure to have an abortion or
to give her up for adoption to keep my daughter, and i love her dearly.
if the gay and lesbian community cannot deal with that, i guess the
gay and lesbian community can just fuck itself.

                                          -ailsa
It's not what you got, it's what you give           _______________
It ain't the life you want, it's the life you live. \    DYKE    /
It's not what you got, it's what you give             \ PRIDE! /
And it ain't what it's not, but what it is.             \    /
(IO81409@maine.maine.edu or wang.com!ailanth!ailsa)       \/
From: aberson@enh.nist.gov
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: RE: Vatican equates homosexuality with mental illness
Date: 22 Jul 92 17:55:36 GMT
Organization: NIST

In a previous article, dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) wrote:
>Save that for alt.sexual.abuse.recovery, where such nonsense statements
>are not only tolerated, but encouraged.

This note gets flatter and flatter each time it is sounded.  It seems
that you are unable to add anything constructive to a discussion of
sexual.abuse.recovery, either here or in a.s.a.r.

Seeya in Portland!

       Sim Aberson   Ft. Lauderdale, FL   aberson%3328.span@sdsc.edu
"It's always Beach Party Barbie, or Malibu Barbie....  That shit does not
prepare you for the true horror of a real woman's life.  Where is Single,
Abused, Trailer-Park Barbie?"             - Roseanne Arnold
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: kls4344@ritvax.isc.rit.edu (Person in flux)
Subject: Re: resonances
Reply-To: kls4344@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 17:39:13 GMT

In article <deafpride@vadier.gr.osf.org>, emcmanus@gr.osf.org (Eamonn McManus) writes:
>amz@iguana.cis.ohio-state.edu (Arnold M Zwicky) writes:
>>  Kannapell has tried to see oralism from the viewpoint of hearing parents
>>  of deaf children.  "THEY'LL DO ANYTHING TO MAKE THEIR CHILD LIKE
>>  THEMSELVES," she signs.>
>....
>>yes, we *have* heard these ideas before.
>
>I doubt if I am the only person on this newsgroup to have read Oliver
>Sacks's _Seeing Voices_ with a deep sense of the parallels between the
>oppression of deaf people and that of gay people.  While (as Arnold
>points out) there are important differences, the tales of deaf people
>resisting attempts to force them to be "normal" and of the
>establishment of Deaf Pride groups are surely striking to any gay
>person.

Indeed.  Another interesting correlation that I've found from strictly
anecdotal experience regarding deaf people and gay people is that deaf gay
people whose primary communication mode is speech (rather than sign language)
seem to have more difficulty coming out than deaf gay people who communicate
in sign language.  This is a generalization and a gross one at that, but those
oral (no pun intended) deaf gay people who have succeeded at being most like
hearing people tend also to be successful at passing for straight and finding
it easier to stay that way.  I'm sure a lot of that has to to with striving to
meet parental expectations.

And one of these days I'm gonna make up a t-shirt that says, "Deaf people do it
orally, manually, and totally."

Katie
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: kenj@kambo.corp.sgi.com (Ken ``Blackfur'' Jones)
Subject: Re: name change
Organization:  Silicon Graphics, Inc.  Mountain View, CA
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 18:58:37 GMT

kimpl@soda.berkeley.edu (peter lee kim) writes:

>to all you out there in net land:

>does anyone know the process for getting you name legally changed?

I am not a lawyer.  You have been warned.

Curious about this myself, while at a bookstore I paged through the
Nolo Press guide to changing your name.  Looks quite simple in
California.  The ease of doing so may vary in other states.

In California, there are two ways to go about changing your name: 1) a
court petition; or 2) just start using it.

The book gives detailed instructions for filing the court petition if
you decide to go that route.  I won't even try to summarize it because
I didn't scan that section closely enough.

But in most cases, you really don't have to worry about going to
court.  Just start using your new name.  Use it consistently, and (at
least in California), that *is* your new name.

The book suggests that you might want to create a notarized document
announcing your intention to change your name, but that is by no means
required.  (The book provides a sample of such a document that you can
use.)

Once you have changed your name, the book recommends that you go the
the DMV and change your license.  Apparently, you just go in and tell
them that you've changed your name and ask for the proper forms to
fill out.  After standard DMV processing time (a few years, I think),
you get your new driver's license with your new name.

Then armed with that, you can go to the Social Security office and
change your name with their records.  They require legal identification
for both your new name and your old name.  Thus, the advantage of
going to the DMV first.

Once you have your driver's license and your Social Security number
taken care of,  you shouldn't have much of a problem changing over
bank accounts, leases, titles, credit card accounts, etc.  Just
contact the organizations and alert them to your new name.

The book mentions that sometimes places like banks and such can get a
bit anal if you don't have the court-sanctioned document approving
your name change.  But legally, they can't refuse (in California).
Knock them around a bit, quote some of the law to them, and they have
to concede.

There are some restrictions on your new name.  Courts have not granted
name changes to things like numbers and obscenities.  You can't change
your name with intent to defraud or to avoid obligations.  Otherwise,
you're pretty much free and clear to choose what you want.

I'd recommend picking up the Nolo Press book.  I plan to when I
finally decide to adopt my "married name." :-)  As with every other
Nolo Press book I've encountered, it's very well written and
complete.  Easy to understand and not encrusted with obscure,
legalese gobbledygook.

- Ken
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: broughton@admin.usask.ca
Subject: Re: Snow (not much motss relevance)
Organization: University of Saskatchewan
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 15:24:30 GMT

In article <ldfmy#k.jfh@netcom.com>, jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton) writes:
> In article <1992Jul20.105518.1@admin.usask.ca> broughton@admin.usask.ca writes:
>>In article <4f=m9qh.jfh@netcom.com>, jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton) writes:
>>> 
>>> Why do you think I put "eskimos" in quotes?
>>
>>Because it wasn't the word you wanted to use?
> 
> As someone else pointed out, it's a literary device.
> 
>>I guess it is okay then to talk about 'negros' and 'redmen' as long as I put
>>quotes around the words.
> 
> In some circumstances, yes.  
> 
>>Quotes make anything correct, I guess. :-)
> 
> I didn't quote enough.  The excerpt I posted was from a longer article
> about a book entitled something like "The Myth of Eskimo Languages";
> I guess it was too much to expect you to figure out that I was using
> quote marks because I was quoting. 

The portion of the original article that you *DID* post included the correct
use of the word 'Inuit' and a question as to whether there was another word for
'Eskimo' when refering to the Eskimo language. I would expect that you could
have quoted the correct usage rather than the incorrect usage.

But perhaps not.

A single word in quotes is hardly reason to assume that it is a quote from
somewhere. After all, almost every English word if put in quotes is a quotation
from the Oxford English Dictionary. People put quotes around words for lots of
reasons other than that they are directly quoting.

Darrell
From: John_Graves@cellbio.duke.edu
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: the b-word
Date: 21 Jul 92 16:31:31 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Duke University Medical Center

>In article <1992Jul18.174908.12061@spdcc.com>, dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
writes:
>
>|> Calling someone a "breeder" is accusing them of an exalted, and
>|> generally widely-appreciated action.  The "offense", such as it is,
>|> comes from the absence of such appreciation. 

It would seem that the insult in calling heterosexuals "breeders" comes from
the association with animal husbandry, i.e. that breeding is a business that
does not involve any issues other than producing offspring, and from its
one-dimensionality, i.e. it reduces a person to  singular component.  Since
this is based on a RC (and other) view of the purpose of sex, i.e. to
procreate, then it is also a parody of a particular heterosexual understanding
of sexual identity.  The effect of adopting the idea that sex is only for
procreation promotes the "breeder" concept.  We're just using it in its logical
location, that place which exposes the concept of the homophobes which is that
sex is bad except for procreation.   It works as an insult when heterosexuals
understand these double meanings of being nothing but child raising machines
dedicated to that purpose by various religious organizations.  Personally I
appreciate all those heterosexuals who are breeding new gays, lesbians,
bisexuals, queers, and supportive heterosexuals.
From: msp@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu (Michael S. Pettersen)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Engineer bashing
Date: 23 Jul 92 15:10:27 GMT

As an addendum to my last posting, I'd like to add that having attend both 
Harvard and Caltech, I can say that Caltech produced some extremely 
literate, well-read and well-rounded students, and that Harvard produced 
many narrow specialists.  The point is that the quality is in the students, 
not the form of education. 

-- 
Mike Pettersen
Ohio State Physics, msp@ohstpy.bitnet, msp@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu
Perfect love casteth out fear.
Xref: sparky soc.motss:32550 rec.arts.tv:15366 rec.arts.tv.uk:4506
Newsgroups: soc.motss,rec.arts.tv,rec.arts.tv.uk
Subject: Re: Do You Remember any Gay/Lesbian Characters on TV Series?
From: ung@felix.filenet.com (Bill Ung)
Date: 24 Jul 92 21:55:44 GMT
Reply-To: ung@fritz.filenet.com (Bill Ung)
Organization: FileNet Corp., Costa Mesa, CA

Ooops, almost forgot.  "In Living Color", they have that periodic skit
"Men on Films" or "Men on Books", two guys who are supposed to be gay
and only like stories about men ... LOTS of men.  I don't know the
character's names offhand, it's been a while since I watched ILC.

Bill Ung
  ung@filenet.com
Newsgroups: soc.motss,talk.politics.misc,alt.individualism,alt.activism
From: walsh@starbd.enet.dec.com (Thomas Walsh)
Subject: Re: On Banning Private Discrimination
Reply-To: walsh@starbd.enet.dec.com (Thomas Walsh)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 23:32:14 GMT


In article <1992Jul26.182334.2208@amhux2.amherst.edu>, twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:
>In article <1992Jul24.203833.28750@decvax.dec.com> walsh@starbd.enet.dec.com (Thomas Walsh) writes:
>
>>In article <1992Jul24.171336.24814@amhux2.amherst.edu>, twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:
>>
>>>No one is attempting to pile a thousand years of inequality upon the
>>>shoulders of these people.
>>>
>>>They are attempting to pile the inequality that exists here and now
>>>upon their shoulders.
>>
>>Of course whether or not they had any part in the creation of that inequality 
>>is totally irrelevant. Is that what your saying?? 
>
>If they are aware of the creation of that inequality and do not lift a
>finger to correct it, I'm saying that they are as culpable as anyone
>for its existence.
>

So how do you plan on punishing all non-activists?  Or are you just going to 
punish white males and call that good enough?
--
___________________________________________________________________________
Thomas Walsh 		walsh@via.enet.dec.com		Nashua, NH

:opinions do not necessarily reflect those of my employers
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: buckmr@aix.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
Subject: Re: PBS Has New Sponsor for "Great Performances"
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 22:14:37 GMT

rjwill6@pbsdts.sdcrc.pacbell.com (Rod Williams) writes:

>Stuart Elliott, the openly-gay Advertising Columnist
>for The New York Times, reports (7/22/92) that
>Duracell Inc., the battery manufacturer, will replace
>Texaco as a corporate underwriter of PBS's "Great
>Performances" series.  Duracell will provide $1.5
>million for the 1992-93 season, compared with the
>$1 million Texaco spent in 1991-92.
Anyone have an address for Duracell?

-- 
RON BUCKMIRE, 54 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735. ``D.C. in '93!''
uunet!rpi.edu!buckmr||buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet||buckmr@rpi.edu||+1 518 276 8919
Samuel R. Delany, Jodie Foster, Barry Diller, Martina Navratilova, k. d. lang,
Audre Lorde, David Geffen, Bob Jackson-Paris, Greg Louganis, Whitney Houston.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch)
Subject: Re: Fashion Plate
Organization: Advanced Decision Systems; a div of Booz, Allen & Hamilton
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 19:39:04 GMT

joe@spdcc.com (Joseph Francis) wrote: 
->So does Yoko Ono, J. Paul Getty, Jimmy Sommerville, 

buy me a beer!

(having jimmy sommerville on the cd player brought this to mind ... it
must be an omen!)

--
# henry mensch / booz, allen & hamilton, inc.  / <henry@ads.com>
From: mdrayton@hpmwtd.sr.hp.com (Mike Drayton)
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 17:05:05 GMT
Subject: Re: Why?
Organization: HP Santa Rosa Site (NMD MTA MWTD)
Newsgroups: soc.motss

 richard@Apple.COM (a flying squirrel) writes:

>I heard on the radio this morning that Bank of America and Wells Fargo
>are thinking about retracting their ban on funding BSA.  

----------
So, can we have those 800 numbers again?
Mailing addresses?  Conventional wisdom is that letters carry 
more weight than phone calls.
 
To register an opinion with Wells Fargo, you can call the 24-hour
number listed in your local phone book.  You'll have to wait out the
voicemail routine to get to a human.

You can call Bank of America at:  (415) 622-4155 to speak to a 
public relations officer.  I just did. 

Mike Drayton
mdrayton@sr.hp.com
From: rogerk@queernet.org (Roger B.A. Klorese)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: HIV- cases of full blown AIDS?
Date: 26 Jul 92 17:51:16 GMT
Article-I.D.: queernet.1992Jul26.175116.8468
Organization: QueerNet

In article <pfkmrag.jfh@netcom.com> jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton) writes:
>>This is a ludicrous example of bending a definition to be self-serving.
>>AIDS is an observable syndrome, not a specific infection.
>No.  AIDS is an observable syndrome, PLUS the presence of HIV.  Legally and
>scientifically, I mean.  No one can stop you from using whatever you want,
>of course. 

That is true today.  But it is only true because the medical establishment
decided that syndrome A == cause B.  If they mean "HIV infection caused
AIDS" they should call it that.  But that would imply that there could be
more than one cause of a syndrome which involved acquired immune deficiency.

>I certainly can't defend the CDC against charges that it has failed to
>react as it should, but I think it's a good idea for it to insist on
>unambiguous nomenclature.

"HIV disease" would be unambiguous nomenclature.
-- 
ROGER B.A. KLORESE                                              +1 415 ALL-ARFF
rogerk@unpc.QueerNet.ORG                 {ames,decwrl,pyramid}!mips!unpc!rogerk
"Normal is not something to aspire to, it's something to get away from."
                                                                   -- J. Foster
From: booter@Autodesk.COM (Elaine M Richards)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Celebrity Poop from the "Star" Tabloid - Bewitched
Keywords: samantha, dick, agnes, whitney
Date: 30 Jul 92 20:04:38 GMT
Organization: The Autodesk Ant Refuge

-----------------------------------------------------------------------1



This is posted without permission. Don't sell it or anything :-)

All typos are mine. - ER

From the "Star", dated Aug 4, 1992.

"GAY SECRETS THAT TV HID IN CLOSET OF BEWITCHED SET"

Former "Bewitched" star Elizabeth Montgomery has talked for the first
time about the homosexual secrets behind the squeaky-clean sitcom.

In a startingly [sic] frank interview, the actress says she knew from
the start that actor Dick Sargent - who took over the role of her TV
husband [...] - was gay in real life.

[Mentions that his information is taken from an interview with 
"The Advocate". Perhaps someone can excerpt stuff from that]

"Sargent, 59, has since gone public...and he and Montgomery were 
co-marshals in last month's Los Angeles gay pride parade.

Montgomery also reveals in the article that there were rumors at the
time that Agnes Moorehead, the actress who played her TV mom, was gay,
too.

"I never talked with her about them," Montgomery said ... "It was never
anything that she felt free enough to talk to me about."

---
[The article talks about how she viewed the show as a metaphor - the witch
had to pretend she was something she was not in order to avoid scorn, just
as gays do. She was exposed to gay lifestyles at an early age. She's straight,
married three times, three kids, lives with actor Robert Foxworth. Would ,
if one of her sons was gay, encouarge him to be out.]
----
Is she concerned that she might be branded a lesbian after serving with
Sargent as an official of the gay parade? "There are bigger things to
worry about," she says. "I did the parade in support of Dick."

-[end of article]-

So, I guess "The Advocate" is the place to get the poop.

On another front, the "Star" has a big article on Whitney Houston getting
married and wanting a baby. Uh huh. 


ER
-- 
E. Richards  fernwood!autodesk!booter or booter@Autodesk.COM

"A mere corroborative detail to add artistic verisimilitude to
 an otherwise bald and unconvincing narrative."