HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: v368ucgd@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (TOM STEEGMANN)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Re: Sentra E vs. Saturn SL (SE-R & SC)
Date: 24 Jul 92 19:32:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Jul24.115340.14292@news.unomaha.edu>, ELHAZIN@Zeus.unomaha.edu (Issa Elhazin) writes...
> 
>>> Saturn has only 2 years of history which is not enough in my book.  
>>> Maybe I'll consider a Saturn after its 5th year of *good cars* and 
>>> *good service*. Maybe...
> 
>>And maybe there will still be good jobs to be found in this country in 5
>>years so that you can earn enough money to pay for your car. Maybe, just
>>maybe....
> 
>> Why don't you consider investing in the
>>future of America rather that look for every little excuse to send more
>>money overseas.
> 
>>Just my $9400 worth (out-the door cost for my SL).
> 
>>Tom
> 
> 
>Well, this is it. That's what I've been saying all along Tom [Saturn's are 
>AMERICAN and that's MOSTLY why all the hype]. But is this the AMERICAN WAY, 
>"THE RIGHT WAY"? And not the FITTEST/BEST survive as we are taught since we 
>were kids? If you answered 'Yes' to the first question, against the Laws of 
>nature, I wonder what would be the future of the Big 3 [America in general]. 
>Very dim indeed. What would we be driving when other people's car don't even 
>need roads..? Wouldn't we still be driving 70's style cars now? Competition 
>is good, no doubt in my mind. We are already giving the big 3 too many breaks.
	
	Here is your first obvious mistake. It is clear that you are ignorant
of the way that Japanese companies work hand in hand with their government
and other corporations. We rarely give companies breaks. It is commonplace
in Japan. Nissan bailed out Fuji heavy industries (makers of Subaru), yet
I dont hear our knee jerk friend taking notice of that. Mitsubishi has
made a majority of auto electronics for a long time, supplying all the
other Japanese companies. They see competition differently than we do. As
long as we have people like the above poster who care little for their
own national economy, Japan will always have the edge. The REAL 'American
Way' is to do the best you can without hurting others. Think about it
before you increase the trade defecit.


>I happen to own a Nissan that I'm totally in love to death with. Every time
>I get behind it's wheel I feel as if I just won the lottery. I can never
>wait until I can drive it again. No American car ever made me feel this
>way including a 69 GT350 Mustang.

	Than you need help. Either you are not a very good driver and
cannot handle driving at the limit, or you are fun-impared. Unless you
are talking about a 300zx, there is no Nissan that can even begin to 
approach the abilities of a 69 350GT. Do yourself a favor and drive a
real car sometime.


Tom

> 



>Issa
From: atl@kpc.com (Drew Lynch)
Subject: Re: Best Sports Coupe with GT Performance
Organization: Kubota Pacific Computer
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 19:36:15 GMT




|> I think a v-8 would be even smoother.
|> hmmm, maybe a mustang 5.0 isn't such a bad idea afterall.
|> NOT !!!
|> Uses too much gas ...

So you *are* looking for an economy car?

-- 
+-----------------------------+
|                             |	     Drew Lynch, atl@kpc.com
|           Zoom!             |	Kubota Pacific Computer Inc. Santa Clara, Ca.
|                             |	          (408)748-6345
+-----------------------------+	  Disclaimer: This is me, not them.
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: hbt@athena.mit.edu (Helen B Tatistcheff)
Subject: Availability of Honda Civic Si
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 21:34:37 GMT

Hi,

Two weeks ago I made a deal to buy a '92 Civic Si.  So far the dealer,
Clair Honda in Boston, hasn't been able to locate one in the color I want
(blue).  

I'm beginning to get worried that this is taking so long, I wonder if they
will be able to get me one at all.

Is this kind of wait unusual?

Aren't the '93s coming out soon which means they're going to stop making the
'92s?

Should I try to get out of this deal, get my deposit back and try another
dealer?

I'd appreciate any advice.  Thanks in advance.

-Helen

-----------
Helen Tatistcheff | Sometimes a shadow, dark and cold lays like a mist across
hbt@athena.mit.edu| the road.  But be encouraged by the sight ...
617-253-1670      | Where there's a shadow there's a light.         -Petra

Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: X10030@MACCVM.Corp.Mot.Com
Subject: Tires....Help!
Organization: Corporate
Date: 27 Jul 1992 14:04:29 CDT

I am looking for some help on getting new tires for a 1991 Subaru Loyale 4WD
wagon.  Currently the car has P165/SR13 tires (no laughs!).  I noticed in
my car manual that the non 4WD wagon and the 2WD and 4WD sedans come with
P175/70 tires....

Does anybody know why?  Also will putting on P175/70 or P185 tires hurt/help
anything?  There is a much greater selection in these sizes.  I am looking
for a tire that will last a long time and performs well.... I hope to
have the new tires last a long time since my wife will be entering graduate
school in the fall and I don't want to have any unexpected bills down the
road...

I would appreciate any information or experience or tire advice on this matter.
Please Email me at X10030@MACCVM.CORP.MOT.COM or post to this group, as I
read it on a pretty regular basis....


Thanks in advance for any help.

***************************************************************************
Andrew Bernstein

"The generation that would change the world is still looking for its car keys"
                                               ---- The Rainmakers
****************************************************************************
From: chilton@crc.ricoh.com (Jeff Chilton)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: engine size
Date: 27 Jul 92 21:07:24 GMT
Organization: RICOH California Research Center

shyguy@ocf.berkeley.edu (David S. Shy) writes:
> I am currently shopping for a car.  This car will basically serve
> as my mode of transportation going home during vacations from Northern
> California to Southern California.  I am looking for something like a  
> sports car (GT's); however, my father has the notion that engines in those
> cars (~2.0L, 4 cyl.) will not last the 400+ miles of traveling at 80+ MPH over
> a long period of time (as in the life span of the engine) due to excessive
> wear. 
> 
> He believes in getting something somewhat bigger, such as a 4.0L V6.  SUV's
> come to mind right away.  Although they are great cars and can handle the 
> luggage, I believe that the GT's will do fine.  (He doesn't even think that
> the 1.6L engine from Mitsubishi and the new engine (V6) in the Ford Probe will
> have a long life span).
> 
> So does anyone out there have any opinions about this  I remember that there
> was a discussion about this, but there wasn't a real general concesus about
> the results.  (the one about bigger engines outlasting smaller engines.)


  With all due respect, I think your father's information is grossly out
  of date. Many 2.0 litre "GT" engines would just love that kind of work out.
  A lot has changed in the past few years, and even if it hadn't, there are 
  lots of old japanese 1.6s with 150k miles still around (Celicas galore).
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: chilton@crc.ricoh.com (Jeff Chilton)
Subject: Re: Honda Civic
Organization: RICOH California Research Center
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 04:02:29 GMT

hkk38381@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Arthur Kwok) writes:
> 
> I'm considering buying the '92 Civic DX. The dealer told me
> he will top the lowest price that's available, even that
> means he has to sell it below the invoice. So far, the lowest
> price I've seen is 9,799 for the body and 999 for both the air
> and stereo. But then, I have to pay another 117 for the passenger
> side's mirror, which doesn't come with the DX. 
> 
> What I want to know is if it's true that the Civic is selling
> close to its invoice everywhere now.


  As for the choice of 

> [...] either a '90 Integra RS at 8,000
>       or a brand new Civic DX at 11,000.  [...]


   It would depend on the odometer reading and condition of the Integra.
   My choice woud be the Integra if it was in great condition and had,
   say under 30k miles on it.

   Also, if the Integra is from a private owner, you can forget about
   sales tax etc. which should save a bundle.


   $117 for a passenger side mirror?????? OUCH!!!


   a friend of mine recently bought a Civic DX with the CD player and no A/C,
   for $10.5k (about $11.5k out the door).  Seems mighty pricey since I
   bought a (stomp all over the Honda) SE-R in march for the same price.
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: mellum@skyler.mavd.honeywell.com
Subject: Re: Typhoon test drive
Organization: Honeywell Systems & Research Center
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 18:03:17 GMT

In article <51300027@hpscit.sc.hp.com>, chrisw@hpscit.sc.hp.com (Chris Wiles) writes:
> make only a few changes like an underdriven crank pulley (20 more hp)
> and a flowmaster muffler (20 more hp) and possibly a new chip for the
> computer (10 more hp) so you ad thos up and you get approx 330 hp (base
> hp of 280). the saleman did say the 93's would have 285 vs 280.  

If you buy one, before you make any modifications you should contact Conley's
Performance Plus in Humble Texas. They've got their Syclone running in the 11's
and have learned the hard way what to do and what not to do. an example is
before you swap out the chip you will need to beef up the fuel delivery system.
The stock system will not supply enough fuel if you increase the boost. I've
dealt with them before and they aren't high pressure. They know their stuff and
aren't there just to sell you something.

Ron
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: gtong@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Gordon P. L. Tong)
Subject: Re: Best Sports Coupe with GT Performance
Organization: University of Waterloo
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 13:53:04 GMT

In article <1992Jul14.182046.1077@mprgate.mpr.ca> jiang@mprgate.mpr.ca (Jie Cheng Jiang) writes:
>

[stuff deleted]

>	Acura Integra GS-R
>	Honda Prelude Si
>	93 Ford Probe GT
	^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  
>	93 Mazda MX-6 LS
       	^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>	VW Corrado VR6
	^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>	Plymouth Laser Turbo AWD
>------------------------------+-----------------------------------------
>Jie C. Jiang                  | Voice: (604) 293-5795
>MPR Teltech Ltd.              | Fax:   (604) 293-5787
>8999 Nelson Way, Burnaby, BC  | Email: jiang@mprgate.mpr.ca  OR

	I personally would prefer the cars with the v-6. When you have driven
a four-cylinder for many years, you will not believe the incredible smoothness
of the power delivery of the extra 2 cylimders. The turbo-4 or vtec-4 may
produce the same amount or higher power, but the power may not come on as 
smoothly as a 6 cylinder. Just my opinion.

I think a v-8 would be even smoother.
hmmm, maybe a mustang 5.0 isn't such a bad idea afterall.
NOT !!!
Uses too much gas ...
(Please no flames, I'm just typing as I am thinking)

Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: chu@hanauma.jpl.nasa.gov (Eugene Chu)
Subject: Re: Best Sports Coupe with GT Performance
Organization: SAR Systems Development & Processing, JPL
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 08:23:19 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.193615.12182@kpc.com> atl@kpc.com (Drew Lynch) writes:
>
>
>
>|> I think a v-8 would be even smoother.
>|> hmmm, maybe a mustang 5.0 isn't such a bad idea afterall.
>|> NOT !!!
>|> Uses too much gas ...
>
>So you *are* looking for an economy car?
>
>|                             |	     Drew Lynch, atl@kpc.com

I don't know what you're talking about.  I regularly get 25 mpg on my
1987 in combination city/hiway, and the best highway was close to 30 mpg.
And I wasn't driving Miss Daisy either!

eyc
-- 
>:<  Me:  Eugene Chu (Mr. Butterfly)        | Radar Science & Engineering  >:<
>:<  chu@hanauma.jpl.nasa.gov               | Jet Propulsion Laboratory    >:<
"T'is better to light a single candle than to curse the darkness"
But t'is so much easier to curse the darkness.
From: Mitch_Halpern@qm.sri.com (Mitch Halpern)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: The Acura Vigor and Unfulfilled Expectations (was Re: Luxury Performance Cars)
Date: 22 Jul 92 23:49:57 GMT

Organization: SRI International

As an essentially satisfied owner of a Vigor I have been surprised about 
the range of comments regarding the car on the net as well as in various 
magazine reviews etc.. While most of the reviews in the trade mags and 
consumer publications have praised the Vigor's handling, engineering, and 
acceleration there has also been a trend to ultimately overlook the 
positive aspects of the automobile while dwelling on the fact that Honda 
didn't break any new automotive ground with its new Acura.  Why shouldn't 
any product be be judged on its own merits instead of what "it might have 
been" (eg given a priori poor marks because it has an odd 5 cylinder 
arrangement instead of the more usual 6).  In addition, just as Acura 
apparently benefitted from the "new kid on the block syndrome" during its 
early years of operation when it consistently topped various customer 
satisfaction surveys, Lexus and Infiniti are apparently the new darlings 
of the automotive world that cannot do anything wrong.  I'm certainly not 
knocking these products, but it is interesting to note that in a 
comparison road test in Car and Driver severalmonths ago that looked at 
the Vigor and Lexus ES300 (amongst other vehicles) the ES300 was deemed 
the "winner" even though the Vigor was the "points" winner (barely) in the 
scoring.  Anyone want to bet that the new Mazda luxury car line (Amati?) 
begins to receive top marks when it gets unveiled?

Even on its own "hands on" terms, the Vigor scores quite well in my book.  
Yes, rear seat room is poor (especially when a tall person like myself is 
in the front) and the 5 cylinder engine does not sound as seductive as a 
6, but the car has some zip, handles well, is built as solid as a rock, 
and seems to have a tauter ride than its Lexus competitor.  I test drove a 
Lexus ES300 and thought that the interior was not as luxurious as the 
Acura (although it was somewhat quieter), the headroom was poor, the trunk 
liftover high, and the handling/ride soft with a (real) price tag much 
higher than the Vigor's.

Perhaps I should be glad that Honda/Acura did not fulfill 
expectations.......

Mitch_Halpern@qm.sri.com      There is no one to blame for these opinions except myself....


Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: chilton@crc.ricoh.com (Jeff Chilton)
Subject: Re: rec.autos
Organization: RICOH California Research Center
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 92 19:17:03 GMT

ucehud@socrates.umd.edu (Ehud Oentung) writes:
> 
> I need your comment and opinion...
> I am going to buy a car next month, and I am thinking about buying
> Hyndai Sonata.  Would anybody tell me the bad and good things about
> that car?


   Hyundai has a general reputation for having terrible reliability.
   Avoid the entire line unless you don't mind having it in the shop
   alot, and paying alot of repair bills.  The Sonata is of course the
   chaepest car in its class, but this is a clear case of "you get 
   what you pay for".
Organization: The American University - University Computing Center
Date: Wednesday, 22 Jul 1992 17:54:16 EDT
From: Naz Reyes <NAZ@auvm.american.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Sentra E vs. Saturn SL

In article <5037@transfer.stratus.com>, cdodson@beast.cac.stratus.com (R. Craig
Dodson) says:
>
>In article <92203.202309NAZ@auvm.american.edu> NAZ@auvm.american.edu (Naz
>Reyes) writes:
>> In article <1992Jul18.192721.1414@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>,
>> ac579@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (G.C.J. Timm) says:
>> >
>> Sentra SE-R and the Saturn SL2's tests!!!!  But, of course, I'm sure
>> that Saturn enthusiasts won't allow me to do that :-)
>>
>> -Naz
>>
>> >
>> >Jeff
>
>Amazing results ?  Hardly. Yes, please post the tests. I know from driving
>both cars what you'll find. The SE-R is marginally quicker according to the
>numbers, but I'll take the superior torque of the Saturn engine any day.
>Again, you are letting magazine reviews run your life, instead of actually
>driving both cars and posting YOUR opinions (as I'm doing now).

Ok, here are *MY* opinions.  First of all, I've driven a Saturn SL2
before and I don't like the way the engine sounds.  The hum of the
Sentra SE-R is music to my ears compared to the cacophony of the Saturn.
Second, I don't like the styling of the Saturn.  It looks like my dad's
Oldsmobile.  Third, I don't like anything that is overhyped by the
freakin' media but has nothing to show for.  Fourth, I like something
that's been around the market for awhile, has a good automotive history,
and is reliable.  Saturn has only 2 years of history which is not
enough in my book.  Nissan has built lots and lots of cars that became
classic and reliable cars which means that there's a very good chance
that they will continue building more cars like this.  Maybe I'll
consider a Saturn after its 5th year of *good cars* and *good service*.
Maybe...

Those are *MY* honest opinions.  Happy?

-Naz
From: dean@pico.OZ (Dean Economou)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Porsche Bankrupt
Date: 24 Jul 92 07:46:13 GMT
Organization: Comp Sci, Uni. Western Australia.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

I happened to be working just near Porsche in Stuttgart last year.  They
are not bankrupt, but profits are down.  Mercedes Benz has agreed to
bail out Porsche no matter how bad things get.  It's a matter of
national pride in Germany that companies like Porsche don't go under.

Dean Economou
(dean@qpsx.oz.au)
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.tech
From: stevenh@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (steven.t.heinsius)
Subject: Re: 86-88 T'bird: Turbo, V6 or V8?
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 13:34:38 GMT

Don't buy a turbo.
Since they are not water cooled they cook the oil

Steve
-----------------------------
From article <1992Jul29.010100.5578@equalizer.fps.com>, by joel@fps.com (Joel Broude):
> 
> My brother is searching for an '86 through '88 T-Bird or
> Couger, the best he can get for under $6k.  
> 
> The T-Birds come with a V8 (302ci), V6, or
> turbocharged four.  The Cougers seem to come with only
> a V6 (fuel-injected for '88, carburated before that).  Most
> T-Birds and Cougers seem to need shocks except the T-Bird Turbo 
> Coupes.
> 
> Got any advice regarding these cars or engine choices?
> 
> (Reply to joel@cray.com or post)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: mikec@cbnewse.cb.att.com (michael.j.clifford)
Subject: Safety: van vs. stn.wagon
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 01:04:31 GMT
Keywords: protection, station wagon, fullsize van, minivan,

My wife and I are thinking about buying a new/used vehicle within 
the next 1 - 2 years.  We want to buy a vehicle that has room for seven or more,
(a must for carpooling kids to school) and has room for 4 + luggage 
(when traveling).
We've narrowed it down to: station wagon, minivan, (fullsize) van (maybe
a conversion van, maybe just a regular "ClubWagon" type of van),
or GMC Suburban.  Still a long list!
The main sticking point is one of safety.
I believe that, in the event of a collision involving the side of the vehicle, 
the station wagon is the
safest because it has steel beam(s) running along the sides of the car,
and the vans/Suburban do not.  But I'm not really sure about this.
My officemate has a fullsize conversion van, and he thinks it it built
with the side beams, but we also know it is based on truck designs, and
therefore is not required to have the beams.
Am I correct?
I believe that minivans will soon be required to be built with such 
safety features, but I'm not sure when that goes into effect.
I believe that the Previa is already built this way.
I don't know if fullsize vans will ever meet this requirement, 
or do they meet it already.

I know that some may say that if you're inside of something as big
as a Suburban or a fullsize van, you're protected very well; but I 
think that these types of vehicles are vunerable to collisions to 
their sides.

I hope I'm wrong...we would like to buy a used/new mini/fullsize van
(heard great things about the new Suburbans, but I don't think we 
can afford one).  

Mike Clifford
From: ganapath@tahoe.qualcomm.com (Chinnappa Ganapathy)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: 300Z vs. M3
Date: 28 Jul 92 19:38:50 GMT
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA

In article <1992Jul27.232751.25155@koko.csustan.edu> james@koko.csustan.edu (Jonas Grumpy) writes:
>In article <Bs2HID.7p0@acsu.buffalo.edu> v368ucgd@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (TOM STEEGMANN) writes:
>>In article <92209.133934JMARTIN@wuvmd.wustl.edu>, JMARTIN@WUVMD writes...
>>> 
>>>I cannot decide, but should both have about the same performance?
>>>  Just delievered differently........


>>	The real difference that the BMW has tradition, and is a whole
>>lot more cool than the Nissan. The 300zx is sort of like the kid who
>>worked real hard in high school, so everyone though he was a genius, as
>>compared to the BMW, which would be the  truly brilliant person who had
>>more lofty things on his mind than impressing others. Ive driven both
>>cars, the BMW has soul, the Nissan has flash. I think that the 300
>>might be a little faster, but I'd take the BMW.


>I would take the M3 anyday. The 300 is like someone watching the masters
>work their craft and then running out to copy what they saw. The product
>they bring you has all the bells and whistles but the path to the  final
>product was a gross shortcut and it is plainly apparent in the final 
>product. The M3 is going to be the 2002 tii of the 80's Not to mention
>the fact that it is absolutely beautiful in white. Japanese engines may
>put out high horses but they are NOT!!!! high performance engines.


Going the analogy route, it could be that the M3 is the snotty person
with his nose in the air because of his lineage while the 300ZXtt is
the new kid on the block.  The only thing that the "high and mighty"
find wrong with the new kid is that his grandfather was poor and weak.
They can't fault him on anything else since he is truly great.  If
they do find anything negative, you can be sure they'll tell the whole
world.

Chinna
-- 
Chinnappa Ganapathy    | "Being able to laugh and make people laugh is not
ganapath@qualcomm.com  |    the be all and end all of being human" - Guinan
QUALCO/\/\/\/\         |
                       | "Yes.  But there's nothing more uniquely human" - Data
From: gurganus@pasture.ecn.purdue.edu (J Gurganus)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: 89 Cougar Performance Boosts
Keywords: Cougar Ford Performance
Date: 25 Jul 92 00:23:24 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network


Anybody know of any good ways to boost the performance of an
89 Cougar LS?  I've got the 3.8L (not the supercharged one).

Thanks for any info!

--
James Gurganus
(gurganus@ecn.purdue.edu)
From: rajiv@hilltop.mitre.org (Rajiv Kohli)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Power of a Blow Out
Date: 28 Jul 92 12:56:00 GMT
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, Bedford, MA


What is the power of a blow out on a running car? Has anybody had this unfortunate
experience? Does the car just go out of control or overturn? What is the safe speed
number to be?

Comments?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rajiv Kohli		Email: rajiv@mbunix.mitre.org Tel: (617) 271-3506
Mitre Corporation 	Intelligence System Integration and Support
202 Burlington Road 	Bedford, MA-01730 Mail Stop: K 306
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