HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com (Ailsa N.T. Murphy)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Gerald and Lawrence Durrell (was Re: Who/what is Baphomet?)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 92 23:47:48 EDT
Organization: Ailanthus Project

altheimm@nextnet.csus.edu (Murray Altheim) writes:

> For a bit of fun, Lawrence Durrell includes the hunt for the Templar treasure
> as well as a fairly accurate history in two of his fiction series, both
> in the Alexandria Quartet, and especially his Avignon Quincunx (four books
> around a central fifth text). Some people might not like his style -- he is
> an inveterate word-crafter and very "thick", but among _my_ favorites.
>

nothign to do with paganism, but has anyone ever read _my family and other
animals_ by gerald durrell?  i've always felt closer to lawrence durrell having
read that, but i also have trouble taking him seriously, as gerry describes
laurie as being such a fool...  great book, highly recommended.  although i
suppose anything by gerald durrell may be considered pagan after a fashion...

                                             -ailsa

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
     wang!ailanth!ails@ulowell.ulowell.edu         ________
      No visible means of support          Silence \      / Action
      and you have not seen nothing yet.      =     \    /    =
      Everything's come together.           Death    \  /    Life
                                                      \/
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: ciaran@county.lmt.mn.org (Ciaran Benson)
Subject: Re: Bailing Out (rant) (was: Re: Freedom of Re
Reply-To: ciaran@county.lmt.mn.org (Ciaran Benson)
Organization: LaserMaster Technologies, Minneapolis, MN
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 92 20:17:03 GMT

In article <17uhorINNhrp@stanley.cis.Brown.EDU>, SL500000@brownvm.brown.edu 
(Robert Mathiesen) writes:
> So the religious right, or something equally totalitarian, may cause
> a lot of suffering for a long time, but probably for less long than
> one's worst nightmares suggest.  I doubt they have the intelligence
> to solve the sort of problems we've been talking about here.  -- Robert

  Worse still, it may be years after the collapse of our essential
infrastructures before the "'Merica is GREAT" league is willing
to admit that it MIGHT be time to spend some money on fixing
things back up.

  Spending money to repair roads, dams, sewage systems, and so
forth first requires that the people who control the money are
willing to admit that these systems have measurable and predictable
life-spans.

  When I worked for the U of Wisconsin, I installed phone systems
as a part of their move to baby-bell networks.  Month after month
I'd install High Maintenance (and I mean REALLY High Maintenance)
equipment in basements and sub-sub-sub cellars, all the while
asking Those In Charge; "So, when do we start making preventative
maintenance rounds?"

  Well, preventative maintenance costs money, and all that money's
gonna buy you is a full life-span on your equipment, which might
seem nice from a technician's view-point, but from an accounting
view-point is a waste of resources -- especially since the equipment
can only be amatorized for about three years now.

  But broken or prematurely worn out equipment can be replaced
as a part of capital investment which is tax-deductable in the
private sector, and laudable in the state university structure.

  So the equipment rots, and the people who could have been
hired to maintain it wander looking for work.  Equipment rich and
people poor, with infrastructures rotting every day and technicians
who ARE working burning out like falling stars.

  And our government keeps subsidizing the purchase and installation
of new equipment, paying companies to take a disposable approach to
all of their hardware and equipment.

  Not a stewardship approach, I'd say.

  All of the happy Pagan philosophy in the world is not going to sway
the big money, and there's a really good chance that we're going
to be stuck with this system until it breaks under its own weight.

  Then, of course, we'll get introduced to the new boss, same as
the old boss.

  One of my co-workers keeps saying that unless you're the lead
dog in the dog-sled team, your view never changes.

  I'm beginning to agree with the Somewhat More Melancholy Murray,
this is getting to be more than any number of playings of the
"Happy, Happy, Joy, Joy" song can counter-act.

  The Somewhat Downcast but Resolute Ciaran.

  $uslinit; include oblig.sig <<
  "...And here, Queen Aphrodite, pour heavenly nectar into gold
   cups, and fill them gracefully with sudden joy."  -- Sappho >>
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: radzy@ICSI.Berkeley.EDU (T. O. Radzykewycz)
Subject: Re: Pagan fiction -- compiled list
Organization: International Computer Science Institute, Berkeley, CA, U.S.A.
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 22:10:30 GMT

klotz@lclark.edu (Gretchen Klotz) writes:
> Bravo, radzy!  Kisses to you for gathering all our recommendations,
> sorting through flames, and summing it all up.  I like the way you present
> the list.

Wow, kisses!  I never realized that getting this list would be so
well rewarded!  Hugs and kisses back atcha!  <blush>

> Would you prefer that we post corrections and additions,
> or email them to you?

It would be easier for me if I got the corrections and additions
by e-mail, but please do NOT both post AND send e-mail.

On the other hand, if you have *comments* about a particular
book, you're probably better off posting, since I don't intend
to post too much in the way of comment summaries, so comments
e-mailed to me won't get out to others unless they send e-mail
asking for it.  (It's big!)

> Thank you *very* much!!!

You're welcome.

Bear Blessings!

		-- radzy

------------------------------------------------------------
					|  An it harm none,
	T. O. Radzykewycz	     	|  do as ye will.
	The Incredible Radical Cabbage	|
					|  "Just pray for a
	radzy@cogsci.berkeley.edu       |  tough hide and a
	        			|  tender heart."
	        			|    -- Ruth Graham
------------------------------------------------------------
> Hi! I am a .signature virus. Copy me into your .signature to join in!
From: elton@sybase.com (Elton Wildermuth)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: How 'bout some *new* pagan music?
Date: 27 Aug 92 23:36:39 GMT
Organization: Elf Hill Music & Mayhem Unltd.

Furthering the thread of pagan music:  here's a text that's probably
just about as pagan as you can get, by a couple of authors you'll
probably recognize.  It's also a bit of wishful thinking; but then,
I can always hope.  Ya gets th' words for free ... if you want the
music, I guess you'll hafta buy the album.

(Oh, yeah:  words & music copyright (c) 1991 by Elton Wildermuth and
Leigh Ann Hussey.)

			The Green Returns

	White birch whispering;
	red oak listening
	to the bees at their convent drone
	in a scatter of mossy stone
	where a chapel used to stand ...
	Altar vested green,
	ivy chancel screen:
	as this chapel is overgrown,
	so the wood will reclaim its own
	with a soft, intense command.

	  Dust are the men who knelt here; still are the tongues that prayed,
	  begging absolution for their vanishing days.
	  There are only ruins where the desolate stones they laid
	  held the captive earth beneath the burden of their praise.

	  When the horned moon rides the clouds in frantic flight,
	  we will always gather to hold the ancient rite:
	  older than your churches, wilder than your ken,
	  silent as the first drawn breath that named the gods of men.

	Barren tree of strife
	sprouting leaves of life:
	where the Calgary prophet lies,
	young branches reach to the skies
	and a figure crouches near:
	green eyes glittering,
	green hair fluttering
	in the breath of an ancient breeze,
	then he vanishes through the trees,
	leaving only shadows here.

Wear it in good health.

			-- Elton & Leigh Ann
Xref: sparky alt.pagan:8717 alt.magick:4207 wny.general:34
From: camurphy@acsu.buffalo.edu (Cindy)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,alt.magick,wny.general,sunyab.org.arsa
Subject: SUNY @ Buffalo Alternative Religions SA
Date: 2 Sep 92 19:01:49 GMT
Organization: UB

This is a brief announcement of the semester's first meeting of the SUNY
Buffalo Alternative Religions Student Association.  We are
a group interested in promoting religious freedom and information
about unrepresented religions at this university.  We are also
interested in networking with any "pagan" (in any sense of the
word) organizations and those of similar interests.  Please
read sunyab.org.arsa for further announcements, and/or send
mail to camurphy@acsu.buffalo.edu, horn@acsu.buffalo.edu,
or blackman@acsu.buffalo.edu for more information.  We also plan
to hold open (Wiccan) circles regularly this year and to
organize a symposium of lectures on some different religions,
traditions and faiths, probably including talks on Kabbalah,
Wicca, Hinduism and more.

-Cynthia Murphy, former secretary ARSA, camurphy@acsu.buffalo.edu
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: klotz@lclark.edu (Gretchen Klotz)
Subject: Re: Pagan fiction -- compiled list
Organization: Lewis & Clark College, Portland OR
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 21:42:39 GMT

Bravo, radzy!  Kisses to you for gathering all our recommendations,
sorting through flames, and summing it all up.  I like the way you present
the list.

My question to you: would you prefer that we post corrections and additions,
or email them to you?

Thank you *very* much!!!

Blessed Be,

- Gretchen

P.S.  I wish I'd gotten a summer reading list like that in HS!
-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Gretchen Klotz		      Computing Services
              klotz@lclark.edu			Lewis & Clark College
Xref: sparky alt.pagan:8431 soc.motss:37236 rec.games.frp:24979 alt.religion.emacs:368 talk.religion.misc:15069 talk.religion.newage:4107 sci.physics:13712
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,soc.motss,rec.games.frp,alt.religion.emacs,talk.religion.misc,talk.religion.newage,sci.physics
Subject: RE: Survey
From: hobbs_a@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz (Anthony 'the Bard' Hobbs)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 23:39:22 GMT
Reply-To: hobbs_a@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
Organization: Wellington City Council, Wgtn, NZ

In article <22AUG92.18047927.0038@UNBVM1.CSD.UNB.CA>, Z57N000 <Z57N@UNB.CA> writes:
>In article <920818174611_70253.2621_CHC74-1@CompuServe.COM> 70253.2621@CompuServe.COM (Chris & Susan Colvin) writes:

>>If you were to die today, would you go to heaven?
>>
>Well, according to mainstream Christianity, that's your decision, right?
>Hmm... in Hell you can get a nice tan year round...
>I don't know. I don't care. I'd kind of like to go to New Zealand
>instead...

What? You mean I'm already in the afterlife? Why did no-one tell me??? :-)

So what happens to New Zealanders who die? Do we go to Fiji? :-)

anthony
p.s. Chris Colvin sent me a lovely bit of mail saying he was glad to know I
thought of him as a fool, "just like Einstein". Sorry to break this to ya,
Chris, but Einstein was a Jewish agnostic as far as I remember. So he's in
hell. Or do I mean Australia? :-)

Blessings and lamburgers,
anthony the insane
--	
Anthony Hobbs             the Bard                hobbs_a@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz    
OverPope, First Holy and Unreformed Church of Frozen Yoghurt - romantic poet - 
synth player extraordinaire - kate bush is goddess - hail Eris - praise "Bob"!
DISCLAIMER: I am not Romanian and was not head of the Securitate for 15 years.
From: canders@isr.harvard.edu (Carl E. Anderson)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Pagan music
Date: 2 Sep 92 16:12:53 GMT
Organization: Harvard University, Cambridge, MA

In article <1992Sep1.185703.16169@lclark.edu> klotz@lclark.edu (Gretchen Klotz) writes:
>Well, radzy and Carl's raves have convinced me to go to Heather's concert
>here in Portland on Saturday.  I'm always willing to check out a new live
>performer.  Besides, I can *walk* from where I live!  Any other PDX pagans
>plan on attending?  (Want to go Sally?  I could turn you on to the *best*
>dessert place in Portland - Rimsky Korsakoffeehouse - within walking
>distance of the concert - chocolate desserts to *die* for!) If others are
>interested, how shall we identify each other? 
>E-mail me if you're going.
>And thanks to radzy and Carl for the info.  :-)

	Hey, if you go say "Hi!" to Leif and the rest of Tempest for me
(maybe they'll remember me from Boston!).  And _do_ tell them and Heather
that you heard about the show on the net.  I want to impress upon them the
advantages of net-access for young-but-daily-a-growing bands like them.
It'll help them get exposure and sell their albums even if the stores
aren't carrying them (allowing live taping _a_la_ the Dead and Phish
wouldn't hurt them for exposure either).

	Well, go see them, anyway and wish 'em luck for me (since as it
turns out I probably can't make it :( ...)

Cheers,
Carl

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl Edlund Anderson	            	"Hefi ek ok aldri sva reitt vapn
canders@isr.harvard.edu			at manni at eigi hafi vidh kommit."
OR
anderso2@husc.harvard.edu			- Skarphedhinn Njalsson 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Bailing Out (rant) (was: Re: Freedom of Religion as well as ever
From: hobbs_a@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz (Anthony 'the Bard' Hobbs)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 23:24:28 GMT
Reply-To: hobbs_a@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
Organization: Wellington City Council, Wgtn, NZ

In article <ce78PB4w164w@ailanth.UUCP>, wang!ailanth!ailsa@ulowell.ulowell.edu (temporary) writes:

Hi Ailsa!

>and i'm a welfare mother.  i'd be leaving EVERYTHING i have except katy behind
>to go, but go i will, if it seems necessary.  i'm not goign to stick around for
>this country to become the fucking _handmaid's tale_.  if i hear rumbles of
>threats tp my family, i'm outta here.

To continue on the "Handmaid's Tale" theme, by the time the threat becomes
apparent it might be too late for you to get out. :-(

To me, it seems as though America is too far gone to be pulled back from the
brink. Fascist theocracy is more than likely. Maybe a Clinton/Gore victory
(unlikely though it is) might slow the process a little. But probably not. The
vested interests are too powerful. There are too many lunatics with money,
power and weapons.

blessings,
anthony the depressed
--
Anthony Hobbs             the Bard                hobbs_a@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz    
OverPope, First Holy and Unreformed Church of Frozen Yoghurt - romantic poet - 
synth player extraordinaire - kate bush is goddess - hail Eris - praise "Bob"!
DISCLAIMER: I am not Romanian and was not head of the Securitate for 15 years.
Xref: sparky alt.pagan:8452 alt.magic:732 talk.religion.newage:4121
From: as_radfo@csd.brispoly.ac.uk (AS Radford)
Newsgroups: sunyab.org.arsa,alt.pagan,alt.magic,talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: ATTENTION: SUNYAB ARSA MEETING 04-SEPT-1992 Come one come all
Date: 28 Aug 92 07:23:22 GMT
Organization: Bristol Polytechnic, England

In article <Btnv2t.Jqx@acsu.buffalo.edu> blackman@acsu.buffalo.edu (Cancholech) writes:
>
>
>	Attention UB! Your Alternative Religions SA (ARSA) will be
>holding its first meeting of the fall semester on Friday September 4th
>1992 at 4pm in front of Kiva, Baldy 101. 
>	Come light the incense, come chant the phrases of power, come
>eat the brain of ancient egyptian witches, come meet the occultists
>and arcanists of SUNY at Buffalo.
 ... etc ...

Purleeze!  I know the difference between 'magic' and 'magick' - you
should too!  Simply reading a few postings would put you in the
picture.


-- 
  Arthur Radford
  University of the West of England      -------------------------------
  BRISTOL, BS16 1QY, UK                	      Esperanto parolata
  as_radfo@uk.ac.brispoly.csd            -------------------------------
From: system@korova.uucp (razorback)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: subject?
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 92 00:51:10 CDT
Organization: VHF void tube of the mind (713) 492-2783

wang!ailanth!ailsa@ulowell.ulowell.edu (temporary) writes:
> AND they're going after gay people hard, not even bothering to disguise the
> hatred in clean linen.  i've been asking all my friends PLEASE to vote agains
> bush, as MY life depends on it, even if their doesn't.  bush has spoken out
> lately very strongly against teh rights of gay parents, and damn i don't want
> to have to try to find housing and an internet connection in canada!

since i read alt.fan.dan-quayl i picked up many more ugly toe jam than i 
wanted to or could have ever wanted to.

fact: bush said he would not aim his campaign EVER to the aethists, his 
      nation is one nation under GOD, and those people are not included
      in that statement

fact: dan quayl has been quoted as saying "i am against abortion even if
      the mother has begotten her child by rape, incest, even if it is
      potentially life-threatening for her to have the child."

        (of course, when asked if he would let his daughter have an 
        abortion, he replied "yes"...)

fact: they are anti-gay, and i really dont appreciate growing up in a 
      world where i am condemned for my sexuality before being old enough 
      to vote!!

i have seen what georgie-poo did to working mothers, day-care 
requirements, rape laws, and the wetlands. he is as environmental as a 
smog factory and probably as healty for the nation.

although clinton is a far cry from improvement, ill take anything over 
bush.

squid

--
              VHF void tube of the mind (713) 492-2783
        "where you can find the Zeta Greys SAFEWAYING themselves
                into the WONDERBREAD *heart* of America!"
From: elton@sybase.com (Elton Wildermuth)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Templars not Masons
Summary: Likewise the contrapositive
Date: 3 Sep 92 00:40:40 GMT
Organization: Paratheo-Anametamystikhood of Eris Esoteric, Edwin Meese Cabal

Paul Ciszek, in article <1992Aug30.053926.29498@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>:
>
>The fact that the Masons have an "Order of deMolay" would seem to imply that
>they at least like to pretend that they have some connection to the Templars.

They also (at least the AF&AM, the only lodge I'm completely familiar with)
like to pretend a connection with King Solomon.  Wanting a thing don't
necessarily make it so.

I did a clandestine history of the world some few years ago in which I
"proved" that the Benedictine Abbey was actually a lodge of the Templars,
and the Templars and the Hospitallers (Knights of Malta) were actually the
same group.  All the events in my timeline really happened; but most of
the conclusions I drew from it were spurious.  Given enough inventiveness,
you can prove nearly anything you want from the information available.

			-- Elton
+++
"He must be guilty of something, or he wouldn't be a suspect."
-- Attorney General Edwin Meese
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: ciaran@county.lmt.mn.org (Ciaran Benson)
Subject: Re: Hitler and Christianity
Reply-To: ciaran@county.lmt.mn.org (Ciaran Benson)
Organization: LaserMaster Technologies, Minneapolis, MN
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 92 17:36:09 GMT

From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: Hitler and Christianity
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1992 19:55:55 GMT

>Bill Nelson wrote:
>>:Ciaran Benson wrote:

>>:...Maybe I should bop over to the Christian
>>: board to talk about Paganism.

>Certainly, why not? If  your postings are not stricktly
>inflamatory, they will be accepted on most boards. If course, 
>the narrow-minded will post messages telling you to take your
>drivel elsewhere, but that is to be expected.

  Heh, heh, heh.  Ok, Bill, I confess it, a palpable touch.
 
>>:   I mean, really, a discussion of dat ol' debbel on alt.Pagan?
>>: 
>>:   Without even one reference to rituals? ;)

>So, what does ritual have to do with Paganism? Other than being
>one facet of the lifestyle that some people practice.

  It is an essential component of my Paganism.  My religion would
be worthless to me if it was not an outgrowth of my lifestyle, and
was not a sacred ritual of life.  The idea of a religion which was
NOT a lifestyle seems very sad to me.

  Thank you, though, for acting as appologist for all of the
Pagans out there who don't do ritual and who are offended by my
mentioning ritual in alt.pagan.  I'm hoping that there is a
sufficiently large number of Pagans in alt.pagan who do consider
ritual an important facet of their religion that they'll get the
joke and maybe get a laugh or two out of it.

>>:   And in anticipation of more of that same hate-mail, yes,
>>: I do think anyone who wants to should hang out in alt.pagan,
>>: but I'm sure as hell NOT going to stop talking about the
>>: Goddess just because some folks who hang out here HATE
>>: references to the Goddess or Paganism and find it
>>: "disturbing" or "unrelated".

>Hm, I must have missed something - I do not recall seeing any 
>such posts. Where were they? How recent were they?

  I was refering to some private mail which I got, and was trying
to deflect any more -- I few folks have written to me privately
about this, and upon reflection I've seen that the people who
wrote the most caustic private mail are not regular posters to
alt.pagan.

  I suspect now that the folks who wrote me these letters were not
alt.paganers at all.  The mail which I sent to those addresses
has all come bad undeliverable -- bad addresses and such.

  That I was getting these nasty letters at the time that I was
first trying to get a handle of what alt.pagan is about has,
admittedly, left me rather touchy about posting here.  Especially
since there's a good chance that any post I make will earn me
a couple of week's worth of responses (public and private)
reminding me that I'm practicing a lifestyle, not a religion.

  Unfortunately, this probably means that I've wrongly flamed back
at people who I had confused with the nasties who were privately
sending me slime-mail.  Appologies all around.

  Blessed be, Ciaran.
From: gerda@brewich.hou.tx.us (Gerda Thunarsson)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: an herb question and a suggestion for a new newsgroup
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 92 13:51:38 CDT
Organization: The Brewer's Witch BBS, +1 713 272 7350, Brewich.Hou.TX.US

> (if tehre is, and i missed it, please correct me.)  discusswions on it go on

 
yes, there is an herbalism newsgroup, it's called: my scrollback runneth 
over...can't find the name, but there is one.  sorry, i wasn't more 
helpful.
 
Gerda

------------------
gerda@brewich.hou.tx.us (Gerda Thunarsson)
(Alternate) gerda%brewich@lobster.hou.tx.us
Origin: The Brewer's Witch BBS -- Houston, TX -- +1 713 272 7350
     "Silence is the voice of complicity" - Vote Early, Vote Often!