HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rns@ausom.oz.au (Ross Sheehy)
Subject: Dialup processes surviving dropped carrier.  How?
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 07:05:56 GMT
Organization: AUSOM - The Apple Users Society of Melbourne

My system has four dialup lines which, most of the time,
function perfectly.  Every so often, however, someone will
experience a dropped carrier but will neither be logged out
nor have any of their processes killed.

My understanding of Unix says that the login shell etc ought
to be killed when the carrier is dropped unless the user has
taken action to prevent it (via nohup or whatever it is).

Can anybody shed any light on what might be happening?

I am running A/UX 2.0.1 on an fx.

Ross Sheehy
-----------
-- 
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Ross Sheehy (rns%ausom.oz@sol.cc.deakin.oz.au)                    |
|   Don't hurry.  Don't worry.  Take time off to smell the flowers. |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: pbrande1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Philip Brandenberger)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.aux
Subject: secure logins on telnet/rlogin
Summary: console security
Date: 28 Sep 92 18:36:42 GMT
Reply-To: phil@erewhon.swarthmore.edu
Followup-To: comp.unix.aux
Distribution: usa
Organization: The Geometry Forum

This is a very basic security question about A/UX: how does one restrict
root login such that telnets (rlogins) cannot log in as root?

On SunOS, one changes /etc/ttytab so the device is not marked secure, but
I can't figure out the equivalent in A/UX.

Thanks!

-Phil




-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Philip J. Brandenberger
phil@cs.swarthmore.edu
Newsgroups: comp.unix.aux
From: kroger@cognet.ucla.edu (James Kroger)
Subject: A/UX and virtual memory
Organization: none
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 01:16:35 GMT

Under A/UX 3.0, irtual memory is always turned on. 
Yet, I have problems running multiple applications
under the finder. I have 8 megs installed. 
Before using A/UX, 8 megs of ram plus virtual memory
would easily have allowed me to open Word, SPSS,
and another application. However, now I get
messages saying there is not enough memory to
open more than two of them. 

What gives? I thought that these memory problems would 
disappear with unix, but it's worse than with Mac OS. 

Thanks for any info. 

--Jim
From: dswartz@redondo.sw.stratus.com (Dan Swartzendruber)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.aux
Subject: Console errors
Date: 29 Sep 92 17:52:56 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Software Engineering

Last night I got the following bizarre sequence of error messages in the
system console window.  Note that scsi device 3 is the Apple CD-ROM,
which is turned on, but doesn't have any disk in it (and hasn't had for
almost a week now).  The machine was rebooted within the last 48 hours.
What gives?

ST1480 <c0d0s0>: Protocol Error Processing SCSI request while reading physical blk {224864}, size {16 blk(s)}

Disk write c3d0s31 Error: Protocol Error Processing SCSI request
Disk write c3d0s31 Error: Protocol Error Processing SCSI request
generic disk c3d0s31 Retry limit: Logical block 0, physical block 0
ST1480 <c0d0s0>: retry #0 successful!
ST1480 <c0d0s0>: Protocol Error Processing SCSI request while reading physical blk {224864}, size {16 blk(s)}

Disk write c3d0s31 Error: Protocol Error Processing SCSI request
Disk write c3d0s31 Error: Protocol Error Processing SCSI request
generic disk c3d0s31 Retry limit: Logical block 0, physical block 0
ST1480 <c0d0s0>: retry #0 successful!


-- 

Dan S.
From: mm5l+@andrew.cmu.edu (Matthew Mashyna)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.aux
Subject: Re: Vendors Re: Apple A/UX FAQ List (2/2)
Date: 29 Sep 92 12:51:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.EemA6oS00WA103x7J2
Organization: Psychology, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

> After much soul searching, I've decided to remove the "Vendors
> who make things difficult..." section from the FAQ. It really
> didn't belong there and, quite frankly, I was sick&tired of everytime
> I posted the FAQ getting a load of mail from people saying...

I think this is a good idea. Bashing doesn't do anything good for anyone. 

What I think WOULD be good, and usefull, is a list of vendors that
support A/UX both hardware and software. I always look at the FAQ before
I post and usually I don't find anything about sources for product type
X or Z.

Something like: video cards, accelorators, tape etc with just the facts
and no oppinions (maybe I could use a source for a spell checker but I
don't get paid for good spelling:-)

Right now I'd like to know if someone can point me to someone who sells
database products -- and other software products too -- for A/UX but I
have to broadcast instead of RingTFM!


Matt
From: rathoret@sumax.seattleu.edu (Tariq Rathore)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.aux
Subject: Screen Prototyping Tool
Date: 4 Oct 92 10:27:53 GMT
Article-I.D.: sumax.5301
Organization: Seattle University, Seattle WA


Hi, 

I was interested in doing some Screen Prototyping and was wondering if
some tool for doing that comes with AUX.
I would appreciate if someone can guide me about that.
My system has AUX/3.0 along with Motif.

Thanks.
Newsgroups: comp.unix.aux
From: sep@netcom.com (Scott Pendleton)
Subject: Re: AU/X install and NEC CDR-74
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 07:58:53 GMT

Robert,
	I too am very interested in hearing about your experiences with the
CDR-74. I want to get this drive mainaly because of its speed but I need
it to be able to  install A/UX 3.0 and I'd like to at least do single session
PhotoCD. Please let me know if you get any more information...

Have you heard anything about Sony's latest drive that should be out soon
in an external version and which is currently found in Apple's Performa
600? It has multispin technology like the CDR-74 and it supports multi
session PhotoCD and supposedly A/UX. If this NEC drive seems to be lacking
then perhaps I should wait and get the Sony?

Scott
-- 
*******************************************************************
** Scott E. Pendleton                         One more Brownie,  **
** Netcom - Online Communication Services        please!!        **
**          San Jose, CA                                         **
**                                                               **
** Internet: sep@netcom.COM                                      **
** AppleLink: D4214@applelink.apple.COM                          **
** CIS: 70070.334@compuserve.COM                                 **
*******************************************************************

Newsgroups: comp.unix.aux
From: ww2@horse.ssc.gov (Wes Price)
Subject: Re: Building perl-4.035
Organization: Superconducting Super Collider Laboratory
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 01:25:56 GMT

Jerry LeVan (levan%eagle@EKU) wrote:
: Any ideas on what the dbm problem is?

Well, editing config.sh and changing the value of $d_ndbm to 'undef' seems
to have fixed the problem for me.

Hope this helps.

ww2
--
Wes W. Price II            "...in a few minutes, I would be free, or dead;
SSC Laboratory, Dallas TX         or, Rudolpho Laspari of Palermo, Sicily..."
ww2@horse.ssc.gov           Clark Kellogg [Matthew Broderick], "The Freshman"
Newsgroups: comp.unix.aux
From: tobridg@scivax.lerc.nasa.gov (James Bridges)
Subject: Re: A/UX / Color Display Compatibility
Reply-To: tobridg@scivax.lerc.nasa.gov (James Bridges)
Organization: Sverdrup Technology, Inc.  NASA Lewis Research Center
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 16:51:58 GMT

The Jag writes:

> Of course, it's not the monitors per se that are incompatible, but the
>NuBus controller cards... If used with Quadra or IIci on-board video, then
>all "compatible" monitors work (i.e., if it works under MacOS, then it'll
>work under A/UX).

However, watch for monitors which require *anything* special, either hardware or software.
I recently returned a 15" Color Pivot because it cannot be used without the CDEV to rotate the image.


I am now about to load A/UX on my Q700 with a 16" Apple monitor. We'll see how well this works.
Right now I'm having trouble getting the Mac to recognize my CD-ROM drive.

*****************************************
              (fill in Usual Disclaimer Notice here)
*****************************************

Newsgroups: comp.unix.aux
From: cyor@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu ( )
Subject: Using AVS Visualization Software under A/UX or MacX?
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 00:52:27 GMT

I have questions:

1)  I wonder if anybody has been running AVS Visualization software under
    A/UX or MacX with their Quadra yet?
    Can we do such a think?

2)  In general, can one buy software for the UNIX system and then have
    it run in the Mac through A/UX or MacX?  How can we do this?


Thanks in advance.
Newsgroups: comp.unix.aux
From: broberts@waggen.twuug.com (Bill Roberts)
Subject: Re: A/UX Question
Organization: Brite Systems
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 02:49:35 GMT

jcraig@access.digex.com (Joseph N. Craig) writes:

>We are considering putting A/UX on serveral existing Macs.  I'd appreciate
>hearing any comments about it.  Specifically: what is the minimum configur-
>ation needed -- machine, memory, disk, etc.?  What is performance like? The
>current Macworld says A/UX is slow.

Don't get A/UX 3.0 unless you have at least an FX or QUADRA.  I have an 
SE/30 and have been waiting now for a fix ever since 3.0 came out.  It
took about 1/2 that time for them to acknoledge the problem the rest of
the time has been just waiting.

Because of the port problem my UUCP won't run and I cant do a long
listing on a ImageWriter.  BOTTEM LINE - Go near the serial ports with
anything that smells like a load and the kernal will panic and the
system will die unless you have AT LEAST AN FX.

System 7 boots up slow - System 7 under A/UX is SLOWER.  I will not put
the product in a commercial market.  Military or academia love it.
(Cake and eat it too).  If you love UNIX and love a Mac and can
only afford one machine I hope its at least an FX.

Me if I had to have BOTH, I would go to price club get a power book and hook
it up as a serial terminal in to a 386/486 with SVR4.

I have A/UX (SE/30) & SVR4 (486 Clone),  but had to come down off A/UXr
at home because of the port problem.  At the office the FX's are OK. 

The A/UX works well and its a good way to ease a support staff
onto UNIX and still let them get some work done with out having to
learn all of UNIX at once.
-- 
|  Bill Roberts, Va Beach VA   |  In the field of observation, chance  |
|  broberts@waggen.twuug.com   |  favors the prepared mind. - Pasteur  |
From: gi9y@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: comp.unix.aux
Subject: Qi server under A/UX 3.0?
Date: 3 Oct 92 13:47:05 EDT
Distribution: comp
Organization: Cornell University

I am trying to compile a Qi server under A/UX 3.0, but I can't seem to get it
working correctly. Has anyone done this out there? I've tried using gcc and
cc, but with no luck. Under gcc, here's the error I get when "make"ing the
server...(using gcc -O -ZB -lbsd -traditional ... and various other cflags give
the same result...

util.c: In function `IssueMessage':
util.c:155: storage size of `_strbuf' isn't known
util.c:156: `_IOSTRG' undeclared (first use this function)
util.c:156: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once
util.c:156: for each function it appears in.)
Make: *** Error: Update of `util.o' terminated with exit code 1

Make: *** Error: Update of `all' terminated with exit code 1

Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks,
Eric Hagberg
Cornell University Medical College
Office of Academic Computing
From: mhend@roch (Marissa Henderson)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.aux
Subject: Re: Wish/Tcl undex A/UX 3.0
Keywords: Wish Tcl
Date: 29 Sep 92 17:11:33 GMT
Reply-To: mhend@roch
Organization: Xerox


 I am currently trying to port Tcl/Tk/Wish/Wafe,etc. to A/UX 3.0, but have run into 
 some problems.  Like someone else mentioned, Tcl should compile without errors
 using the A/UX cc compiler.  I cannot get Tk to compile correctly though.  I
 would try the GCC 2.X compiler, but I cannot get either the binary or the compiled
 source code version to run at all, and nobody answered my cries/pleas for 
 help with GCC.


 If anyone does get Tcl/Tk/Wish/Wafe, etc working, please post a note to this 
 newsgroup along with any suggestions or ideas for some of us beginners.

 Thanks,


 Marissa Henderson
 Systems Analyst
 Xerox Corporation
 MHEND.ROCH@XEROX.COM
Newsgroups: comp.unix.aux
From: jim@jagubox.gsfc.nasa.gov (Jim Jagielski)
Subject: Re: Help getting 4 mm DAT working with A/UX 3.0 ??
Keywords: dat aux help my-brain-is-fried i-need-a-beer
Reply-To: jim@jagubox.gsfc.nasa.gov (Jim Jagielski)
Organization: NASA/Goddard Space Flight Center
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 14:01:03 GMT

jdoyle@phy.umassd.edu (J.D.) writes:


>	We were trying to setup a WangDAT on an Apple Q700 running A/UX 3.0
>and have been running into ALOT of problems. After reading through the
>Local System Administration book and taking their sage advice with failure,
>a post to news was in order.

Well, it looks like you know about the 8k buffering requirement, so it's
not that...

What it _is_ is that the latest version of 'tc' doesn't "officially"
support the WangDAT 4mm DAT drives; just the Archives.

In the near (I hope) future I will be starting on a newer version of 'tc'
to try to add additional device support (like WangDAT and HP-DAT) as well
as "enabling" full use of extended tape lengths and h/w compression.
-- 
    Jim Jagielski               | "It is not I who am crazy...
    jim@jagubox.gsfc.nasa.gov   |  it is I who am MAD!"
    NASA/GSFC, Code 734.4       |
    Greenbelt, MD 20771         |            - Ren
From: dominic@natcorp.ox.ac.uk (Dominic Dunlop)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.aux
Subject: A/UX 3.0 on IIx tries to write CD-ROMs!
Date: 6 Oct 92 08:47:55 GMT
Organization: British National Corpus, Oxford University, GB
Originator: dominic@onions.natcorp.ox.ac.uk

I finally got around to installing A/UX 3.0 on my IIx last week.  (I was
upgrading from 2.0.1, but reformatted the disk between unloading the
old OS and installing the new, as I wanted to run a surface check and
diddle with partitions.  So history shouldn't be an issue.)  Everything
is fine (why, I can even access the scanner from A/UX, may the Lord
be praised) EXCEPT that every time I put a CD in my spotless (if
self-effacing) new Apple CD 150, a message pops up in the CommandShell
console window complaining that a write to c3d0s31 has resulted in a
unit check.  (As well it might!)  Also, CD's seem a bit picky: before
I mucked about with SCSI cables, some CD's wouldn't mount -- now all
that I have, bar one, will mount, but I always get that write error.
(All mount under native MacOS.)  Conceivably this is a cable problem.  I
don't think it's an INIT problem: the only INIT, apart from CD-related
ones (not including the driver, audio file access, and CD-remote),
loaded is QuickTime.

Thoughts, anybody?
---
Dominic
-- 
Dominic Dunlop
Newsgroups: comp.unix.aux
From: spencer@panix.com (David Spencer)
Subject: Re: Building perl-4.035
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 12:55:14 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC

levan%eagle@EKU (Jerry LeVan) writes:

>Sigh,
>I just tried building perl-4.035. I received several warnings about illegal
>pointer operation (=). This all seemed to have to do with signal.

>The regession tests fail on the dbm module (test 5 was the first and several
>more in the module also failed.).

>The cccmd was cc -c -B/usr/lib/big/ -DPARAM_NEEDS_TYPES -O
>The libraries are: -lc_s -ldbm -lPW -lmalloc -lm -lbsd -lposix

Try gcc instead of cc and -lgdbm instead of -ldbm.

I built perl 4.035 this way last friday and it passed the whole test
suite without a hiccup. I went away for the weekend, so I haven't had
a chance to beat on it yet.

You can get gdbm sources at prep.ai.mit.

BTW, the perl configuration header indicates that it wants a safe
memory copy.  The configure script indicates that the a/ux bcopy and
memcpy aren't safe (not surprising) and that the libraries don't have
memmove, the ansi C safe-copy. Sure enough, memmove is properly
declared in <string.h>, but I couldn't find it in any of the
libraries. It's also not in the man page for <string.h>.

It's easy to roll your own, but why isn't it in libc.a? Is the library
missing any other ansi functions?

dhs   spencer@panix.com
Newsgroups: comp.unix.aux
From: howard@tybalt.ultra.com (Howard Simonson)
Subject: Re: Important!!! Please read!!
Reply-To: howard@ultra.com
Organization: Ultra Network Technologies, Inc.
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 92 20:27:01 GMT

In article <1992Oct1.215557.3689@wvnvms.wvnet.edu>, un032463@wvnvms.wvnet.edu writes:
|> To all who are interested!!!
|> 
|> 	Remember back when I had all of the problems pertaining to my IIci and
|> A/UX 3.0?  Well, if you don't, here is a quick summary:  I could install A/UX
|> on a friends IIsi using all of my equipt.(CD-ROM & HD), but I could not install
|> it on my IIci.  Well, I took it to a dealer, and he took a IIci RIGHT OUT OF
|> THE BOX, and it BOMBED just like mine.  Well, a few HUNDRED calls to apple
|> later, and I (ME) found the problem.  I had a 2 foot SCSI cable.  I suspected a
|> timing problem from the get go, so I went out and purchased a 6 foot SCSI
|> cable.  What do you know!  Boom it worked.  No problems now!!  So, just thought
|> I would share my experiences with ANYONE who has had a problem with the IIci's
|> SCSI bus.  Thanks to ALL who tried to help.  I really appreciate all of the
|> info that I received!  Later!
|> 
|> 								Mike Manzo
|> 						West Virginia University

Yep, I've been there, sorta.  It probably isn't so much the cable length but
the dang cable itself.  With all the devices I've got on my SCSI bus, I can't
go using 6 footers everywhere without going wacko on bus length.  I've tried
to keep'em all as short as possible, usually three or two footers between
devices.  I haven't found a one-footer yet, though I know some vendors make
them.  But what I did find out in my SCSI cable travels is that all cables
are not created equal.  Right out of the plastic, some cables I've bought
have given me very flaky behaviour on the bus, with a typical cumlmination
in the Mac crashing.  Usually its the cheapo cables I tried to save a few
bucks on.

Moral: Spend the money for good SCSI cables, and even then, be prepared to
try two or three till things work properly.
-- 
-------------  ----   ----   ----  ----  -----  -----  -- ---------------------
|J -------- |  |   \  |   \  |     |       |    |   |  || |
|  |/\=== | |  |   /  |   /  |     |       |    |   |  || |
|------------- |---   |---   ---   ----    |    |   |  || |    This space
||A          | |      |\     |        |    |    |   |  || |
||    /^\    | |      | \    |        |    |    |   |     |
||   /   \   | |      |  \   ----  ----    |    -----  [] |     for rent.
||  / /|\ \  |____________________________________________|
||  L/_|_\J  |                                            |
-|    )|(    | EM: howard@ultra.com/VM: (408)922-0600 x228|____________________
 |    ---   V| Ultra Network Technologies*101 Daggett Dr*San Jose*CA*95134-2132
 ------------- [ My disclaimer is on file in the main office ]
From: bob@beamlab.ps.uci.edu (bob prohaska)
Subject: Re: A/UX Question
Newsgroups: comp.unix.aux
Organization: university of california, irvine
Date: 2 Oct 92 00:16:57 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.221141.4268@nntpd.lkg.dec.com>, halpin@vsg1.dsg.dec.com (Stephen E. Halpin) writes:

[virtues of 486-33 based machines deleted]
> You havent added up the cost of a version of UNIX with all the add on
> packages yet!  I havent checked prices in a while, but you could tie
> up $2,500 to get SCO UNIX with Berkeley networking, NFS, development
> and text processing tools, etc...  If only Apple would support even their


You could tie up that much money in software, but it isn't clear that
you HAVE to:  386bsd is available and looks to be in workable if not yet
finished condition.  I'm in the process of exploring it now.

bob
From: time@ice.com (Tim Endres)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.aux
Subject: Re: CD-ROM unimplemented trap?
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 23:00:25 EST
Organization: ICE Engineering, Inc.
Reply-To: time@ice.com (Tim Endres)
X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.6v1


In article <194@posix.COM> (comp.unix.aux), hlj@posix.COM (Hal Jespersen) writes:
> I posted this last week and would like to follow up.  One person [whose
> name is now misplaced; sorry, thanks for your help, whoever you were]
> suggested that I just remove the "Apple CD-ROM" file.  This worked fine.
> Nothing like a non-intuitive solution. :-)  I am able to access MacOS
> and 9660 CD-ROMs from the MacOS side without problems.  Also, thanks to
> andrewp@itwhy.bhp.com.au.

I believe the reason for this is that the CD-ROM is "built-in" to
the MacOS under A/UX, but the reason the normal INIT does not work
is that it uses the MacOS SCSI manager which is not supported under
A/UX.

> I still don't know why the shift key business doesn't work, though.
> Is it the responsibility of each cdev or init itself to check for the key?

This changed with System Seven I believe. Used to be each INIT looked
for something to signal it not to load, but they were all different
(which has its advantages). Now, I think System Seven will look for
the Shift key and not load any INITs, but for some reason this does
not seem to work under A/UX.


tim endres - time@ice.com  -or- tbomb!time
ICE Engineering, Inc - 8840 Main St, Whitmore Lake, MI 48189
Phone (313) 449 8288 - FAX (313) 449-9208
USENET - a slow moving self parody... ph
Newsgroups: comp.unix.aux
From: pbrande1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Philip Brandenberger)
Subject: REPOST: Telnet Security under A/UX?
Followup-To: comp.unix.aux
Summary: secure logins on A/UX
Reply-To: pbrande1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Philip Brandenberger)
Organization: Swarthmore College
Distribution: na
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 00:49:13 GMT

I asked about this a few weeks ago but got no replies, so I thought I'd
ask again.  

It appears that under A/UX there is no way to restrict ROOT LOGIN from 
remote sites, like there is under SunOS, Ultrix, etc.  That is, right now
anyone can type

telnet xxxxxx.swarthmore.edu

and log in as root if they have the password!  For obvious security reasons,
I want all root logins (even with the correct password) to get the "login
incorrect" message; the root user must log in as themselves and then su to
root.

Thanks,
Phil


-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Philip J. Brandenberger
phil@cs.swarthmore.edu
From: time@ice.com (Tim Endres)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.aux
Subject: Integrated Computer Solutions Phone # ??
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 92 14:44:30 EST
Organization: ICE Engineering, Inc.
Reply-To: time@ice.com (Tim Endres)
X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.6v1


The A/UX 3.0 literature from Apple lists Integrated Computer Solutions
as a source fo Motif for A/UX 3.0. However, the phone number I had
for them is disconnected. Anyone know if they're still around? Have
a current phone number for them?

thanks


tim endres - time@ice.com  -or- tbomb!time
ICE Engineering, Inc - 8840 Main St, Whitmore Lake, MI 48189
Phone (313) 449 8288 - FAX (313) 449-9208
USENET - a slow moving self parody... ph
From: time@ice.com (Tim Endres)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.aux
Subject: Re: A/UX SLIP dialer sources
Date: 3 Oct 92 04:01:41 GMT
Reply-To: time@ice.com (Tim Endres)
Organization: ICE Engineering, Inc.
X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.6v1


In article <6975@transfer.stratus.com> (comp.unix.aux), dswartz@sw.stratus.com (Dan Swartzendruber) writes:
> When I ftp'ed this and uudecoded it, a couple of the files seemed to be
> corrupted (particularly the source file).

VERY SORRY!!!

I posted the sources from the MacOS side of the house and left the
files with CR's instead of LF's. I will fix the archive! In the mean
time, if you already have the CR's you can:

	tr '\015' '\012' < oldfile > newfile

to fix the files.

tim.


tim endres - time@ice.com  -or- tbomb!time
ICE Engineering, Inc - 8840 Main St, Whitmore Lake, MI 48189
Phone (313) 449 8288 - FAX (313) 449-9208
USENET - a slow moving self parody... ph
Newsgroups: comp.unix.aux