HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: erudnick@pica.army.mil (FSAC-SID)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: AMT Automag II
Date: 3 Oct 92 13:21:24 GMT


I fired an Automag II ONCE. Another fellow at the range had a semi-
inexhaustible supply of .22s, ranging from a tiny Beretta to a
Contender. He insisted that I try them all, and I agreed, just to
be polite :) :) :)

Anyway, I fired a magazinefull from the AM2. Fed perfectly. Surprised
how much it kicked; not excessive, just so much more than .22LR.
Got groups about as good as I get with other handguns at that range.


Ed Rudnicki     erudnick@pica.army.mil     All disclaimers apply
Protect the Second Amendment - boycott Ruger products
"That's not true," Bill hissed to his lawyer. "The facts are-"
"Don't worry about facts, Bill, no one else here does. Facts can't
alter this case."       -"Bill the Galactic Hero" Harry Harrison
From: kunz@avalon.physik.unizh.ch (kunz peter)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .222 and .223
Date: 2 Oct 92 16:57:43 GMT
Article-I.D.: flubber.9210021440.AA06366
Organization: Informatik Club Uni Zurich

In article <199209201758.AA09039@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes:
#In article <1992Sep19.023437.25247@ncsu.edu> hes@unity.ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer) writes:
###.38 Special can be fired in some pistols chambered for .357 Magnum.
##  I don't know of any revolvers in which it can't be fired, and
##it is very commonly used in .357 Magnums.  Even in the (rare event of
##a) .357 Magnum semi-auto it would probably feed quite well since the
##overall length of the round is essentially the same.
#
#The only .357 semi-auto I know of is the Desert Eagle, and .38 definitely
#won't feed in this: It doesn't even work well with mild .357 loads.
#
a cheaper optionm is the coonan, available standard and with comp. dunno
about re;liability.

cu
-pete



-- 
Peter J. Kunz		Home:		(+41) 061 721 75 56 (Weekends)
P.O. Box 315		Business:	(+41) 01  261 35 74 (Weekdays)
4106 Therwil		Fax:		(+41) 061 324 71 88
Switzerland		E-Mail:		pkunz@amiga.physik.unizh.ch
From: messina@netcom.com (Tony Porczyk)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Glock trigger pull
Date: 6 Oct 92 11:16:49 GMT
Organization: Messina Software

fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes:

#I think the trigger pull is a significant safety problem. As such, it 
#isn't a "great" police/self-defence carry gun.

In what respect?  I am not sure I see what you mean... 
The way I see it (and feel when I shoot it :) it is a consistent
trigger pull, same from first through each following shot (just
like DAO), it is a little shorter than most DAOs I've seen which
is GOOD in my book, and it is also easily adjustable to the weight
you feel comfortable with, 5 lb, 8lb, 11lb.

All of the revolvers are pretty much the same, all of the DAOs are
pretty much the same - could you explain for me why you feel the
trigger pull is a safety concern on a Glock? 

t.
From: smpod@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov (Stefan)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 4895 powder and other reloading questions.
Date: 6 Oct 92 01:02:10 GMT
Organization: who knows

bigdog@bones.et.byu.edu (dan canfield) writes...
#smpod@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov (Stefan) writes:
###bigdog@bones.et.byu.edu (dan canfield) writes:
### 
###|> Right now, I have a question about the 4895 powder.  My dad has used
###|> this exclusively for his 30-06 and has several pounds on hand.  I am
###|> wondering if there is a light weight slug I can use this powder with
###|> in the 7mm remington mag caliber.  
##
##How light is 'light weight'?
# 
#I am not sure, I thought something around 130 gr. for practice shooting.

Sierra has the following loading data for the 7mm Rem Mag with IMR 4895:

velocity  2600    2700   2800   2900    3000   3100   3200   3300  3400

120gr                           50.2    52.3   54.4   56.6   58.6
140gr     46.5    49.0   51.2   53.5    55.8

The target bullets made by Sierra are 150 and 168 grains.  Also for max
accuracy, Sierra recommends IMR-4350 bullet weights between 100 and 160 grains.
From: kunz@avalon.physik.unizh.ch (kunz peter)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Recommendation for bullet-proof vest wanted.
Date: 2 Oct 92 16:57:49 GMT
Article-I.D.: flubber.9210021459.AA06479
Organization: Informatik Club Uni Zurich

In article <1992Sep22.161710.7370@CERIS.Purdue.EDU> jheath@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Jim Heath) writes:
## 
## Is there some kind of occupational newsletter that tells punks not to
## buy or steal .357s?    %^)
#
#Actually, wouldn't a newsletter be kind of pointless?  I
#understand that many of these street punks are illiterate.
# 
## I was not aware of any such trend or rule.
#
#I believe I have read several places that the trend is toward
#larger calibers, but it is a slow trend. 

my friend's gunshop was robbed recently (again) guess what they took.
everything in the windows containing high capacity guns and colt
revolvers. there was a bag of sw revolvers and peterst stahl lying
around, since they were probably bothered by someone....
trend? large mags. womder if they took any glock 33 rounders...



cu
-pete



-- 
Peter J. Kunz		Home:		(+41) 061 721 75 56 (Weekends)
P.O. Box 315		Business:	(+41) 01  261 35 74 (Weekdays)
4106 Therwil		Fax:		(+41) 061 324 71 88
Switzerland		E-Mail:		pkunz@amiga.physik.unizh.ch
From: lklawson@acs.harding.edu
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Children and toy guns...
Date: 3 Oct 92 13:21:48 GMT
Organization: Harding University

In article <9210011512.AA25586@outmail.microsoft.com>, davidst@microsoft.com (David Steckler) writes:
#My wife is a 2nd grade teacher at a rural school. Apparently, last weekend
#some kids (aged 5, 7, and 8) "accidently" broke one of the school's windows
#while playing ball on the school grounds. Since the window was already
#broken, they decided to go in and explore, setting off the school's (silent)
#alarm. The police arrived and, in the darkened hallways, one child (the 7
#year old) was brandishing a toy cap gun. According to the cop, he came within
#1/4 second of shooting when the boy turned and (unknowingly) pointed the gun
#at the cop. Self-restraint on the officer's part, however, saved the boy's
#life.
#
#I've already decided that my (future) children will not own toy guns that
#look anything like real guns. There are guns and there are toys and they
#are separate things. I would never dream of telling anyone how to raise their
#kids (especially since I'm not a parent yet), but I just thought I'd relate 
#this story as food for thought.
#
#	...Dave

   So far, there has been many bits spilled over this topic.  If safety is you
prime concern, you should know that many toy manufacturers agree with you.  To
this end, they have started manufacturing toy guns in brightly colored pastels
and oranges and such like.  Let's not forget the previous advice about teaching
children respect for guns and the difference between play and "real" life.  My
father played many of the "cowboys and indians" games and to the best of my
knowledge, he never pointed a firearm at anything more dangerous than a
squirle.  He is now a missionary in Kenya.  Doesn't sound much like the "evil
gun games" perverted his fragile, impressionable young mind.  But this is
leading off into a non r.g strain (sorry moderator).

-Highly opinionated (aren't we all?)
 Kirk Lawson
LKLAWSON@ACS.HARDING.EDU

"Madame, if I were your huband, I would drink it!" -Winston Churchill
From: craig@osf.org (Craig Peterson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Shotgun speedloader?
Date: 30 Sep 92 01:58:29 GMT
Organization: Open Software Foundation

In Mass Ayoob's LFI-III class he shows some out-takes from some of his
training videos.  In one of the videos he is demonstrating the use of
a speed loader for shotguns (forget the make/mfr.).  He tries it a few
times, Rick tries it a few times, no success.

He then says: Experimentation has shown that these devices are
inheritently unreliable.  He doesn't recommend their use for defense
situations, and doesn't use them for much of anything.

Craig.


-- 
Craig Peterson, n8ino	craig@mainstream.com
PO Box 1120, Merrimack, NH  03054-1120
Unless otherwise noted opinions expressed are not those
of my employers.
From: Thi_Huynh@univel.COM (Thi Huynh)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: AR15 accuracy
Date: 1 Oct 92 23:31:07 GMT

chuckr@ibmpa.awdpa.ibm.com (Charles V. Rossi) wrote:
# towle@vssteg.enet.dec.com (Clark Towle Gunsmith) writes:
# 
# # It depends strictly on who made the barrel. Stay away from the chrome lined
# #bores as their accuracy potential, to put it bluntly, is lousy...
# 
# This is a new one......so what's the inside story on chrome lined
# bores?  Seems to me they would be a better choice since they would last
# longer and resist corrosion better.
# 
# I have a Quality Parts 24" 1 in 9" chrome lined barrel that will hold
# under 1" groups at 100 yards.  I've always felt I could squeze even
# tighter groups if I could work up a bullet/powder combination that it
# really liked.

Chrome-lined barrels are more expensive to manufacture with excellent
accuracy potential.  Olympic Arms does not make chrome-lined barrels,
which makes their rifles much less expensive than Quality Parts.  I favor
Quality Parts rifles since they are mil-spec on every parts of the gun.

Chrome-lining a barrel will make it last much longer since chrome is harder
than steel.  Chrome-lining will also prevent rust in the bore and chamber,
and it will also increase the bullet velocity.

Heavy match barrels from both of these manufacturers have about the same
accuracy potential.  QP's barrels are chrome-lined, which makes their gun
more expensive.

-tt
From: holger@vmars.tuwien.ac.at (Holger Reusch (Dipl. Gerhard + Joe))
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: What does Magnum mean?
Date: 28 Sep 92 19:39:00 GMT
Organization: Technical University Vienna, Dept. for Realtime Systems, AUSTRIA

pes3@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Paul Eric Stoufflet) writes:
#Aside from that, I have always wondered exactly what is the difference
#between regular and "Magnum" cartridges.  I know that magnum's tend to
#be more powerful than standard, but is there a specific definition?
#Does each magnum cartridge have a corresponding non-magnum cartridge?
#If so, what about .41 Magnum?

AFAIK[1], "Magnum" just means "more power" and "longer cartridge".
The etymology is as follows.  In the 1930s, a revolver cartridge more
powerful than the .38 Special was developed.  In order not to be
interchanged with regular .38 ammo (and to accomodate the bigger powder
charge), the cartridge case was made longer than .38 Special cases.
The cartridge was called ".357 Magnum", with .357 reflecting the bullet
diameter (in principle the same as for .38 Special, the ".38" must have
been a marketing hype :-).

For handgun hunting, an even more powerful cartridge was developed,
the .44 Magnum.  Same story:  Take an extant cartridge, the .44 Special,
make it longer & more powerful and call it "Magnum".

Meanwhile, magnum cartridges took hold in the police community.  A
cartridge just between the .357 Magnum and the .44 Magnum was sought
after.  The .41 Magnum had been developed as a "police" cartridge,
without a corresponding "standard" cartridge.

Due to the rising popularity of semi-autos for police work, the .41
Magnum never took over a significant segment of the official market.

Have I got it right?  _Cartridges of the World_ owners will doubtlessly
have still more interesting things to say about Magnum cartridges.


[1] AFAIK = As far as I know
-- 
| Holger Reusch                             |
| Technical University of Vienna, Austria <-+--- No kangaroos here,
| Dept. for Real-Time Systems               |    sorry!
| holger@vmars.tuwien.ac.at                 |
From: mjalava@lk-hp-21.hut.fi (Mika Matti Jalava)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Silencer questions
Date: 1 Oct 92 23:31:55 GMT
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology

In article <1992Oct1.043422.20389@netcom.com> geo@netcom.com (George Pontis) writes:
(I said the first shot through a silencer is louder than others)
#I could be your hearing that's changing ! There is a mechanism in one's
#ear that can temporarily reduce the ear's sensitivity to protect it against
#loud noises. 

Yes, that would work for a gun WITHOUT a silencer. With one, there is
so little noise that it CAN'T affect hearing. If you shoot in the
open, and especially with slow cartridges, even the first shot is VERY
quiet. Not a bang, rather like "pffft" or "thud". But still you hear
the difference.

	Mika
From: SAPX@CORNELLC.cit.cornell.edu (Steve)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Tokerev Ammo
Date: 28 Sep 92 21:56:36 GMT

I've been having too much fun shooting my Tokerev pistol!!!
I've run out of ammo and Century,Kengs,and Centerfire Systems
say there won't be any for sale till the end of Nov. Any one
out there know of a supplier of 7.62X25 ??? Corrosive is fine
cause it has a chrome bore. Whatever. Thanx,Steve

Xref: sparky rec.guns:13833 talk.politics.guns:21717
From: btree!hale@UCSD.EDU (Bob Hale)
Newsgroups: rec.guns,talk.politics.guns
Subject: BATF traces (was Recommendation for bullet-proof vest wanted)
Date: 6 Oct 92 01:02:23 GMT
Followup-To: talk.politics.guns
Organization: Brooktree Corporation, San Diego

In article <9210012130.AA05024@gtephx.com> forda@gtephx.UUCP (Andrew Ford @ AGCS, Phoenix, Arizona) writes:
[ quoting from the newspaper ]
#Top 18 handguns used by criminals:
#
#The federal BATF traced 56,509 handguns for law enforcement 
#agencies in 1990-1991.  Here, in descending order, are the 18 
#handguns (12 semi-autos, 6 revolvers) most frequently traced, 
#as described by the ATF:

[ list deleted ]

As is so often the case in today's journalism, this article misleads
the reader.

A BATF trace does not necessarily indicate that the firearm being
traced was used by a criminal.  Sometimes the police will trace
a firearm used for defense (for whatever reasons), sometimes they
will trace stolen guns, and sometimes they will trace firearms
just for the heck of it.  A trace does not imply use by a criminal.

Chances are that most of the guns traced were used in crimes, but
not all of them.  This country could stand a good does of responsibility
in journalism.

Followups directed to t.p.g.
	[MODERATOR: so marked.....]

Bob Hale                                      ...!ucsd!btree!hale
...!btree!hale@ucsd.edu                       ...!ucsd!btree!hale@uunet.uu.net
From: gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: laser sightings..
Date: 26 Sep 92 15:39:05 GMT
Organization: U.S. Army Ballistic Research Lab, APG MD.


In article <1992Sep24.055710.11730@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu> Soaf1!wb3ffv!aplcen!jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu!hu_tm@uunet.UU.NET (Timothy M Hu) writes:
#I was just curious as to anyone's experience with laser sightings on pistols.

I've tried out what I could get my hands on and found that laser sights
are practically worthless for "street" use; you simply cannot see the
dot quickly enough in daylight (except against special reflective targets).
For range use they don't seem to offer any real advantage over "dot"
optical sights.
They may have some "intimidation" value but you're not supposed to do that.
From: ace@blackhl.hacktic.nl (todd simpson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: SKS & Sweadish Mauser
Date: 30 Sep 92 13:23:38 GMT
Organization: The Black Hole HIN.BBS, Utrecht Netherlands

I have a couple of problems that I hope someone can provide help with:
1. I am concidering rebarreling an SKS to either 220 Russian (5.6 x 39)
or 22 PPC. What I'm hoping to achieve is better ballistics than the 
7.62 x 39 at the price of only rebarreling.
--Any Comments?
2. Does anyone know any good handloads for the 6.5 x 55 in an M96 
Sweadish Mauser and 5.56 AR-15 using European powders?

Any help with these problems would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks in advance!!



[D[D[C
[A/s

| todd simpson (ace@blackhl.hacktic.nl)
| BBS The Black Hole : +31-30-940197
From: kknox@logdis1.hq.aflc.af.mil (Kevin P. Knox)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .303 - .308 conversion
Date: 30 Sep 92 13:23:24 GMT

Recently you wrote:

#From:           "Hal (H.V.) Kauffeldt" <halk@bnr.ca>
#Subject:        HELP WANTED: .303 -> .308 Conversion
#

#Recently, I purchased a used Lee Enfield rifle that had been
#converted from the original .303 to a .308 calbire, by means of a
#replacement barrel.  The rifle still uses the original .303 clip.


...(much deleted)

Hal,

Is your rifle an SMLE?  I was under the impression that the SMLE
wasn't a very strong action because of its design.  From what I was
told and from what I've read, this is because of the locking lugs
being back inside the receiver among other things.  Sorry I can't
answer your question without generating another, but (if you do have
an SMLE) is it safe to fire the .308 from that gun to begin with?

P.S.  If you have a P-14 comversion, please desregard.  They are hard
(if not impossible) to blow up.  Thanks. --- Kev

==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==
|  Kevin Knox, Assistant DDN NSC            KKNOX@192.12.64.3        |
|  WPAFB 2046 Comm Group, BCTF                                       |
|  DSN 787-4088                  KKNOX@LOGDIS1.HQ.AFLC.AF.MIL        |
|                                                                    |
| "Time flies like an arrow............. Fruit flies like a banana!" |
|                                                                    |
|   "My opinions are my own and should  probably stay that way!"     |
==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==
From: rboudrie@chpc.org (Rob Boudrie)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Lee bites back.
Date: 6 Oct 92 19:40:51 GMT
Article-I.D.: chpc.1992Oct6.190054.3989
Organization: Center For High Perf. Computing of WPI; Marlboro Ma

#You tend to get what you pay for....  The Lee isn't a bad press.  It is simply
#a bit less sturdy in some areas and less forgiving.  Unless it has happened 
#recently, I don't think Lee offers a lifetime warranty.  I can state that 

Lee's policy is that they will rebuild a press for "50% of the CURRENT 
FULL RETAIL" price.

Interestingly enough, the "discount mail order suppliers" sell Lee
presses at about 55-60% of retail.  Conclusion?  Lee isn't losing ONE
CENT servicing a press under this "rebuild" policy - it's the 
equivalent of letting people replace thier press with a new one at
dealer price.

On the other hand - A friend recently broke a Dillon 350 she had borrowed
form a local shooter.  She sent it back at it was completely rebuilt, free
of charge. [ <fyi - the 350 is the Dillon the formen at the Giza Pyramid
construction stie reloaded their ammo on :) :) ]

#the Dillon case feeder (in my case at least) works well all the time....
#
#Rick
#


Rob Boudrie
From: toby@carson.u.washington.edu (Toby Bradshaw)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: bore cleaner questions...
Date: 30 Sep 92 16:41:40 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Sep30.152241.25193
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <9209292104.AA02161@nuc.Utah.univel.COM> Thi_Huynh@univel.COM (Thi Huynh) writes:
#Hi folks,
#
#What is the best copper remover which doesn't damage stainless steel?
#I use Hoppe's Copper Solvent and it is a drag to get all copper fouling
#out of the bore.  This question has been asked many times before but
#unfortunately I forgot. :-(

Sweets 7.62.  Strong ammonia smell, but it works.  In a good
stainless match barrel, lapped and properly broken in, copper
fouling is pretty minimal.  In most factory barrels, it is
a real problem.

Toby Bradshaw
Department of Biochemistry and College of Forest Resources
University of Washington, Seattle
toby@u.washington.edu

"A well-educated electorate being necessary to the prosperity of
a free state, the right of the people to keep and read books, shall
not be infringed."  Do you think that banning legal possession of
easily-concealed novels will stop criminals from reading?
From: psilva@techbook.com (Paul Silva)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Rifle for sale
Date: 30 Sep 92 01:58:59 GMT
Organization: TECHbooks of Beaverton Oregon - Public Access Unix


  Remington Model 700BDL in 7mm Mag.
  
  -  Bushnell Sportview 3x9 scope with "Kwik Site" see-through rings
  -  Sling 
  -  Shoots under 1" groups at 100 yards.  
  -  $375.

  Give me a call in Beaverton at 643-9268 if you're interested. 

  Thanks, ...Paul
From: voodoo!tomm@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Tom Mackey)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: shooting with contacts
Date: 29 Sep 92 00:03:51 GMT
Organization: Boeing Graphics project, Bellevue WA



I was out sighting in some rifles yesterday and noticed after an hour or
so that I was having a lot of trouble keeping both the scope hairs and
the target in good focus.  Also, while sighting with both eyes open,
eventhough my right eye is normally dominant, I would catch myself using
my left eye.  Has anyone else noticed problems with contacts or have any
words of wisdom regarding shooting with contacts?  I am considering going
back to glasses next time I go out shooting.  I am extremely nearsighted
which tends to make everything look smaller while wearing glasses, so I
think I would prefer using the contacts.

Thanks,
-- 
Tom Mackey       (206) 865-6575        tomm@voodoo.boeing.com
Boeing Computer Services         ....uunet!bcstec!voodoo!tomm
M/S 7K-20,     P.O. Box 24346,     Seattle, WA     98124-0346
From: sfaber@ihlpb.att.com (Steven R Faber)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Rifling Twist Angles - stability
Date: 30 Sep 92 23:13:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbnewse.1992Sep30.173450.29212
Organization: AT&T

#From article <1992Sep30.151911.24878@u.washington.edu>, by toby@carson.u.washington.edu (Toby Bradshaw):
# In article <30SEP199208590643@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov> smpod@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov (Stefan) writes:
# #toby@milton.u.washington.edu (Toby Bradshaw) writes...
# ##... 
# ##About the only way to get a higher BC without going to a longer
# ##bullet (assuming the form factors are already pretty good) is
# ##to go to a larger caliber.  Maybe that's why some hunter class
# ##shooters are using those Speedy Gonzales 110gr match bullets
# ##in their short .308 cases...with S-L-O-W twists (like 1:16).
# #
# #I thought that BC is proportional to mass/drag and going to larger but 
# #relatively light bullets would increase drag faster than mass and therefore
# #decrease BC.
# #
# 
# 
# BC is some function of sectional density (squared, I think)*form
# factor.  I'm mostly thinking of bullets that require approximately
# equal twist rates for minimum stability in benchrest, like 1:14
# for 52gr .224 as well as 125gr .308.  The 125gr .308 will have
# a BC about 0.100 higher than the .224, which makes a difference
# in wind-bucking :)  and recoil  :(
# 

For a fixed length the sectional density should stay the same when
you increase diameter, maybe there are some other effects on BC.
You would get a stability advantage with increasing radius which
is consistent with the slow twists as seen below.

Going back to the equation and substituting for r and L (length)
in the moments of inertia for cylindrical bullets 
and simplifying I get : 

 (rifling angle)*r/(l*sqrt(dens of air))

for a stability ratio under the same initial assumptions.

The author switched assumptions to force on the side of the bullet
when he came up with the rifling angle increase proportional to 
L^3/2 and I don't understand why, otherwise it would be proportional
to L as above.

As to Toby's other comment on how hotter loads seemed to overcome
marginal stablity.  It was pointed out to me that the theory assumed
a constant coefficient of drag.   It also doesn't account for
slowing of the bullet spin, so maybe some of these effects change
things at long range.   Oh yeah, I forgot to mention the results
assume the bullet is supersonic.

Steve