From: ajh@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Alan Hu)
Subject: Re: Asian <> Asian-American
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 00:44:35 GMT

In article <1992Jul27.164536.7505@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com> maridai@ecs.comm.mot.com (Marida Ignacio) writes:
>Ok, since this is SCAA, what am I doing here?  I am a Filipino (thus, Asian)
>and should not be sticking my nose in this newsgroup, right?  NOT.

Lots of non-Asian Americans are sticking various parts of their anatomy
in this group.  The group's for discussing Asian-American issues, but there's
certainly no racial or ethnic requirements for posting.  Welcome to our
happy wasteland.  :-)

	[Complaints about postings with vicious prejudiced contempt for
	 Asians deleted.]

Hmm, maybe I'm not receiving all the articles, but the only vicious prejudiced
contempt I see is Dwight's vicious prejudiced contempt for Chinese culture.
There's also Jim's sarcasm, but he's clearly blasting the contempt-filled
Asian-Americans (or the people who imagine they exist everywhere), rather
than Asians.

There also seems to be some terminology confusion, both here and in some
other articles.  People seem to use both zero-origin (immigrants are
zeroeth generation) and one-origin (immigrants are first generation)
counting.  The predominant usage seems to be one-origin, reflecting the
Japanese terminology of issei (first generation) being the immigrants
and nisei (second generation) being the first American-born generation.
Since most people in this group use this terminology, I'll stick with it.

Another confusion is the definition of Asian vs. Asian-American.  For
most people in this group, Marida is Asian-American, since she(? I'm guessing
from the name) is an American (citizen or PR, right?) of Asian ancestry.
Thus, all nth generation for n>=1 are Asian-American, whereas someone
just visiting from Asia would be Asian and not Asian-American.  This
distinction makes political sense, since for all n>=1, we are all US citizens
with the same legal rights and responsibilities (except becoming president)
and facing similar anti-Asian racial prejudice.  Culturally, however,
this distinction is imperfect, as the n>=3 and the n=1 tend to have different
values and expectations.  Indeed, many Asian-Americans with n=1 grew up
and matured in Asia and consider themselves to be Asian and not
Asian-American.  Conflicts arise when one group expects another group to
behave in a specific way that the other group doesn't want.

>
>To those who are prejudiced against Asians just because they are N>2nd
>generation Asian-American, let me tell you this:
>
>1]  Without your Asian ancestor who came here in America, you wouldn't even
>    be born here at all, pinheads.  I am not demanding too much for you
>    to stick with me.  I don't need you.  I came here and have been going
>    through adjustment by myself, I don't need your constant whining to
>    worry about besides my own.

I think most of us, whether pinheaded or not, realize that somewhere in
our ancestry, someone (perhaps ourselves) made some smart immigration
decisions.  As for our "whining" (there's that word again!), well, we're
all doing the best we can for ourselves and for each other.  If trying to
improve the world is "whining", call me a whiner.

>
>2]  For those Asian-Americans who do not want to associate themselves with
>    Asians for reasons that include forcing America to *see* the difference
>    between As and AAs and to consistently live and adopt this attitude:
>    "Ah, there's an American, all right (referring to AA)" and "Ah, he/she
>    is Asian..." - I am very much in favor and would even be proud of my
>    ancestry than be associated with an AA who is *ungrateful* and
>    *prejudiced*.                                        

Yeah, you're seeing the tragedy of racial anorexia (in BD Wong's phrasing).
A lot of Asian-American "whining" attempts to counteract this, to allow
Asian-Americans to see themselves as valid people despite the constant
media bombardment to the countrary, to help Asian-Americans stop hating
themselves for their ancestry.
>
>3]  For those AAs who worry because even at N>2nd generation, they still
>    have features or evident traces of Asian ancestry in their looks -
>    wake up and go down to earth.  You are too superficial, you do not
>    have any calcium (confidence) in your bones as to feel ashamed of how
>    you look and let this be a prime factor in *facing* others.  You are
>    too shallow as to perhaps, because you yourself, judge others by their
>    looks.  "Attitude covets attitude." " Do not do unto others what you
>    wouldn't want others to do unto you."  You look at yourself and America
>    *this way* and America waves the same look at you.  You practice
>    prejudice, and I say it is a form of racism - being prejudiced of the
>    Asian race, and America (and the world) becomes *psychic* and feels
>    prejudice towards you too.

I'm not sure I follow this exactly.  The gist is that people shouldn't
worry too much about what others say, right?  That's fine by me...
>
>    You do have a *big* attitude (psychological) problem.  The point is,
>    you contribute *a lot* to how others would look at you and I tell
>    you, isolating yourself from Asians is not a solution to your problem.
>    You are, (not Caucasoids, Negroids, other Aborigines) nobody else's,
>    your own responsibility.  So, grow up and do yourself a favor by doing
>    your part of the bargain.  *There may not even be an offense intended
>    for your defensive attitude and remarks.*  Maybe then others (other
>    race) will accept you for yourself if you accept yourself for what
>    you are first (unless you really despise yourself that is why you
>    want to identify with another race).

I'll get to this later.
>
>4]  You make a big deal about the question "Where are you from?", all
>    because you want to oblige America to stop being intimidating and
>    *force the hope* that *that* question will just mean where did you
>    live previously and *not* what is your ethnicity.  You are just wasting
>    too much effort on very trivial issues and the problem with this
>    effort is it in turn creates a storm that disturbs and destroys
>    instead of actually being constructive.  In short, you cause bad
>    commotion.  (Haven't you realized yet, Dear Abby is playing upon this
>    kind of bad commotion - what for? for intrigues and publicities -
>    to keep the column up.)

You're giving Abby too much credit.  :-)  More on this at the end.
>
>5]  You label yourselves like a commodity (i.e. rice: long grain, short
>    grain, etc.).  You brand yourselves; put yourselves into profiles, etc.
>    This kind of attitude is very contributory to racism.  I'd rather
>    not contribute to the conflict (or division).  Instead of shouting
>    "Racist, racist!"  (you even call each other this too, that is why
>    it can never stop or subside.  BECAUSE YOU KEEP BRINGING IT UP!),
>    chill-out and say, "So, you've got preferences.  (I wouldn't even bother
>    to ask why unless I want to make a mountain out of an ant hill) I've
>    got mine too.  I guess everybody does as an individual."  Deep inside,
>    believe this and respect this existing in everybody.

Denying the existence of racism doesn't make it go away.  Indeed, this
kind of attitude permitted 120,000 Americans to lose their homes, businesses
and jobs as they got locked up in desert prison camps for the crime of
haveing Japanese ancestry.  You may decide that ignoring racism is the
best coping strategy for yourself, and I repect that decision, but please
don't fight against your brothers and sisters who have decided that fighting
racism is a better strategy.
>
>Well, about the *ones* who call themselves *kings* and *queens* of the land,
>don't worry.  They too will have their time to wake up and realize what
>they are missing down here on earth.  But don't make it too much *your*
>responsibility to force them.  Worry about more important matters other
>than making America treat you as equal or someday, put you on a pedestal.
>(This shows you sublimating.)  Is that all what life is worth to you?
>
>P.S.  The above is addressed to AAs who are prejudiced against Asians only.
>      I did not do this to start a thread or a flamewar.  Like most who 
>      post, I too would just like to express my own opinion.
> 

OK, here's an opposite-side tirade, directed at those Asians and first
generation Asian Americans who are tired for hearing Asian Americans "whining"
about trivialities like getting dates, finding jobs, belonging, getting
denied employment opportunities because of race, unequal pay for equal
work, getting your brains bashed in by some redneck with a baseball bat,
etc., you know, silly things like that.  Please try to understand that
for many, many Asian Americans, this country, the USA, is our ONLY home.
We may look Asian, we may eat at Chinese restaurants sometimes, we may
even know a few words of some Asian language.  Some of us have studied
Asian languages or culture and history in college, but that's IT.
CULTURAL AND LINGUISTIC KNOWLEDGE IS NOT GENETIC.  In every sense of the
word, we are red-blooded, full-bodied, real, live, honest-to-God
AMERICANS, with ALL the rights and responsibilities thereunto appertaining.
Yet, from the moment of our birth, we are told, thanks to our genes,
that we are second-rate foreigners who don't belong here, that we're
worthless, that we're not REAL Americans.  We bust our buns trying to
carve out a piece of existence in the only country we know, trying to
fit in, trying to establish our lives here, only to be constantly reminded 
that with a quick change in political wind, we can get our jobs taken away,
our homes burned, and ourselves beaten to death, just because of our genes.
And then we turn around and a bunch of Asians kick us in the face for
being banana-Twinkie-hollow-bamboo-worthless-sellout-scum-traitors-who-
can't-even-speak-Chinese/Japanese/Korean/Vietnamese/Tagalog/etc.

It hurts.

Most of us who have thought through the problem realize that the root
of most of the racism we face is that, no matter how many months, years,
or even *generations* that our families have been in the US, we are still
not counted as Real Americans (tm).  Thus, we are dedicated to trying to
change this misperception.  Strategies differ:  some advocate ignoring
racism and being economically successful, others advocate fighting
racism directly through protests and politcal action.  Regardless, the
unifying theme is that we must recognize the problem exists before we
can do anything about it.  We are trying to help you; we are trying to help
ourselves; we are trying to help everyone's children.  Please don't fight us.

						--Alan Hu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american