From: oueichek@imag.fr (Ibaa Oueichek)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Re: UNHRC condemns the Khomeini regime AGAIN
Date: 5 Oct 92 12:17:45 GMT
Organization: IMAG Institute, University of Grenoble, France
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh (aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu) wrote:
: In article <40560@imag.imag.fr> oueichek@imag.fr (Ibaa Oueichek) writes:
: >
: >  WOULD YOU PLEASE TAKE THIS DISCUSSION TO ALT.RELIGION.FANATISM ?. Can't you
: >find anything else to speak about in s.CULTURE.arabic thant "punishement",
: >"stoning", "women must be covered from head to toe, OTHERWISE..". No wonder
: >why WE (Arabs) are in a mess, because we spend our time discussing issues like
: >dress code and such and forget the essential. Why do we insist always on
: >judging each other ? Why all that disrespect to those who don't share our
: 

 I'm answering VERY QUICKLY because my system will be down for an unknown
period. So excuse the spelling faults.
: 
: Ibaa, while I can understand and appreciate the message that you are
: trying to convey here, I believe that you could have directed it in
: a more appropriate manner (and less flammatory) than to say that such
: a discussion is 'fanatical' and should be addressed only in a religious
: type of forum.

  Anisa, my objection wasn't against the subject itself, there are plenty
of religious discussions on s.c.a, and i've rarely asked people to remove
them (and even when i did, noone cared, so i won't bother anymore). Now,
the problem that the discussion REALLY degenerated and transformed to a
real holy war. And using terms like "punishing women who don't want to 
cover their heads is something very normal" is really unacceptable by any
human mesures. I really appreciated the feedback of Mme Rayes and here
enlightened opinions, but it seems that the dark ages are still present in
the memory of plenty of our Muslims fellows on this forum.
: 
: Since I have know you, you have always been the first to criticize
: Islam and its religious tradition, and have never tolerated (to
: any degree) any discussion related to this topic. 
  I think I, you, everyone, hase the right to critisize Every religion
provided he's not doing that "a la Martillo". 

: While you may
: disagree with the discussion itself (nor have any tolerance for
: those who do), that is your preference.  But please do not condemn
: it on this newsgroup and especially to blatanly state that such a
: healthy argument is fanatical - and belongs in a 'fundamentalist'
: newsgroup.
  No Anisa, the discussion itself (taken from a "technical" point of view)
is alright. But i felt really afraid when i've heard the 'more than radical'
opinions here. And to tell the truth, i've never heard such stupidity during
the 22 years i've spent among the Muslims in my country. I think that most
violent, radical and fanatic fundamentalist theories  come from outside the
Arab world and not from inside.
: 
: While I have not contributed or commented on the thread, I feel that
: this is communication among the posters (whether they disagree or
: not) and many of the stereotypes and misconceptions about Islam
: (even among Arabs themselves) is being openly discussed here.  That
: is the overall purpose - to break these misunderstands and to create
: a more positive outlook so that people (like yourself) will have a
: little more courtesy, respect, and tolerance of our religion.

 Anisa, this kind of discussion will only enforce the stereotype AGAINST
Muslims that they are narrowminded and savages (while they are not, but
anyone who thinks it's fair to through paint or Acid on a woman who
isn't covered from the head to the toes IS a savage and barbarian idiot).
: 
: Ibaa, even if you are not a Muslim, you should know that religion and
: politics hold a very vital role in Middle Eastern politics, and such
: a newsgroup is suitable to hold these discussions, especially those
: subscribers who have little or no other type of contact.
 The problem is this news group holds ONLY these discussions. I remember
when 5 months ago we've started a discussion about Arabic Music noone
wanted to contribute to the discussion. And the thread died because of
the lake of contribution. This is a stereotype by itself, that Arabic 
culture is reduced to a discussion like "dress code" and such. WE HAVE
THE MOST GLORIOUS AND RICH HISTORY IN THE WORLD (sorry for shouting),
but we don't care about it. 
 
: 
: I agree that it can get a little out of hand, and that the noise
                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This one got REALLY out of hand.
: level can be very high, but that is no reason to completely abolish
: such discussions.  But, please do not pass judgement on them yourself,
: and I beg of you to please be more careful how you phrase your
: dislike of the situation with your usage of words.  It is very offensive.
 I think i already made the distinction between a "good believer" (even a
fundamentalist), and a fanatic.  However, i'm sorry for the "good guys"
who were contributin to the thread if it has offended them. I'm not comment
ANY religious issue anymore, i've already wasted enough time on it.
 Salam.