HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: heath@athena.cs.uga.edu (Terrance Heath)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Malcolm X book review
Date: 3 Sep 92 19:12:54 GMT
Article-I.D.: athena.1992Sep3.191254.7899
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens

In article <1992Sep2.184153.29470@morrow.stanford.edu> HF.GTD@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gabrielle Daniels) writes:
>For all you Malcolm X fans, here are excerpts from a book review
>by Gregory Stevens, who has written for The Village Voice and
>Whole Earth Review, on the book, Malcolm: The Life of A Man Who
>Changed Black America by Bruce Perry.

Thanks for posting this. I'll probably try to scare up a copy of this
book. It would be interesting to read it alongside the autobiography.

>This article appeared in the Sunday, August 30, 1992 San
>Francisco Chronicle.
>
>[...] means that there was previous text(s).

[much stuff about the fictionalized or fudged parts of the biography
deleted]

>In one controversial claim, Perry says Malcolm engaged in
>homosexual behavior as a boy and later as a pimp.  Quoting a
>sidekick, Perry writes that Malcolm sold himself to such men as
>wealthy Boston Brahmin William Paul Lennon, who hired Malcolm to
>act as butler and give him sexual "rubdowns."  Still, "Malcolm's
>income producing homosexual activity was sporadic," he says.
>.
>.
>Uhuh.  And what about when he was in prison?  Don't tell me
>homosexual activity in prisons only began in the Sixties.  Jeez.
>.
>Terrance said something to the effect that his sexual experiences
>may not have informed his politics very much.  Of course, Malcolm
>scripted himself in order to tamp down some of his internal
>demons when he joined the Nation of Islam.  The tragedy of this
>all is, what if Malcolm had lived?  Would he still have had the
>courage and will to change?  I'd hate to think he would have
>turned into someone like Ralph Abernathy.

	Would he have had the courage and will to change what? I think
that perhaps is he had any "personal demons" he might have been moved
to come to terms with them rather than surpessing them. Remember that
after his hajj he had become disillusioned with the Nation of Islam
and its leader.  Perhaps he would have become disillusioned with the
demand that certain parts of his own persona be labeled "Demons" and
surpressed (because there is no successful exorcism. (I, by the way,
would love to see a black, gay, Malcom X-type figure turn up on the
horizon. It would be too much!).
	Perhaps the reason he died/was killed, is because he's alraedy
shown the potential to grow and change, and someone feared that if he
did he might take a lot of people with him.
	Ralph Abernathy?  Where does he come into the picture? Did I
miss something"

>...Some Malcolm followers will be offended by Perry's complex,
>warts-and-all interpretation, but the composite portrait is
>characterized by admiration and respect. 

Some will not be satisfied with anything that portrays the man as
anything less than a god.


-- 
"Black men loving black men is THE revolutionary act!"
			-Joseph Beam_
Terrance Heath 
heath@athena.cs.uga.edu
From: ph111-bx@violet.berkeley.edu (;;;;7202)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Johns vs. Carpenter
Date: 2 Sep 1992 04:46:02 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: violet.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Sep2.005425.20807@morrow.stanford.edu>
HF.GTD@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gabrielle Daniels) writes:
#In article <17ur8lINNemg@agate.berkeley.edu>,
#ph111-bx@violet.berkeley.edu (;;;;7202) writes:
#>In article <YeceZ4m00UhWM7nVsE@andrew.cmu.edu> Dean Calloway
#><dc4l+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
#>>                         Young men see women as sexual objects.  Point
#>>blank.  Its how we're taught.
#>
#>Not entirely, taught that is.  There's also a basic (and base) hormonal
#>response operating.  The sex drive or urge to mate is about as fundamental
#>to life as anything; it's what tells the species to continue.  In general,
#>the control and selective suppression of our animal urges is the result of
#>our civilization and culture.  It's what tells us to hold back, instead of
#>tackling and having sex with every passing female we're attracted to, which
#>is what would happen if we let our hormones think for us.
#.
#.
#Tell me something.  Whose civilization?  Whose culture?  Western
#Civ? or the Yoruba?
#.
#Thank you.

I probably should have just said culture instead of civilization since
you don't need cities (some define civilization as culture with cities)
to have culture.  In any case, I dare say virtually every culture has
some rules governing sexual conduct, at the very least, say, prohibitions
against incest since this is biologically unhealthy for the population.
Beyond that, there's great variance:  in ancient Greece it was acceptable,
at least in the nobility, for men to have sex with young boys, and the
Yanomama in South America are polygynous and raid neigboring villages for
women (sorry I'm not familiar with the sexual practices of the Yoruba). But
in any culture, sexual conduct is not simply practiced with wild abandon,
only directed by one's own hormonal response.  Issues of time, place, and
appropriateness of participants control desire.  Otherwise, the resulting
chaos and conflict would tear the culture apart.
From: mjcarpen@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Michael J. Carpenter)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: News re Lee's 'Malcolm X'
Date: 27 Aug 92 20:29:28 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

In article <1992Aug27.162532.6271@morrow.stanford.edu> HF.GTD@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gabrielle Daniels) writes:

>I say these accountants and execs are just freaked at Spike Lee's
>continuing audacity to hurl, as it were, right back at them at the
>double standards for putting together films and personnel.

I can definitely identify with this. Witness the reactions of my own tirades and
I see Spike Lee's position with better clarity. I guess some people simply like 
to label this type of rhetoric as "bigoted" and "racist," as we've witnessed
in recent days here on s.c.a.a., or with rappers in general, etc. It seems
that some people can't stand the heat when they're put in the oven.

Mc
From: helfman@aero.org (Robert S. Helfman)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: MLK & U-2 & Disposable Heroes of Hip.
Date: 4 Sep 1992 05:57:27 GMT
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: aerospace.aero.org

In article <1992Sep4.000806.1@mscf.med.upenn.edu> mills_j@mscf.med.upenn.edu writes:
>
>      Yesterday, I went to see U-2 at Veteran's Stadium.  The Disposable

>      The whole concert was a little unusual for me.  Normally, I see bands
>in much smaller settings.  Normally, there are a lot more African Americans
>around.  But last night was strange.  There were only these forty
>thousand white people.
>      And, then, at one point during the set -- right in the middle of Pride
>(In the name of love), of course -- all the 50 foot high TV screens showed
>a huge picture of Martin Luther King, Jr.  Then we heard a little snippet 
>from his "I Have a Dream" speech (I think, don't remember exactly) and, the
>whole stadium cheered.
>      It struck me kind of strangely.  I wondered if all of these people
>around me really saw MLK as a hero, if they really felt it personally, in
>their souls, or whether it was just some sort of PC thing.

>      I wish I could have felt more moved by the whole thing, but I didn't.
>days ago).  Now, it almost seems, that MLK has been taken over by whites
>and that blacks feel that his message has little to offer anymore.
>      I'd like to hear some opinions.  Do people think MLK is just out of 
>style now, but his message will endure?  What about all those young white
>people cheering him?

MLK is a real hero to me, and his importance to the civil rights struggle
has taken on more importance with time. His movement and his leadership
opened a lot of white people's eyes to the injustice around them. Understand,
it didn't open ALL white people's eyes, but it opened enough to produce the
critical mass necessary to get the civil rights laws passed and a good
start at enforcement begun. His martyrdom made him immortal but it was
his LIFE that made the difference. 

Many young black people now seem to be more enamored with the 
strength and confrontational style of Malcolm's memory
than with the love that MLK preached. 

It's one of the sad twists of history that Lyndon Johnson, who enormously
advanced the cause of civil rights, got himself and the country
mired into Vietnam. In the process, he alienated MLK, who couldn't
abide the sending of American Black men to fight an unjust war. 
Had Johnson and MLK not been at cross-purposes, the civil rights
movement would have gone much further. 

Without Vietnam, Johnson would have been one of the greatest presidents in our
history (I'm not lauding his personality or his ego, just his accomplishments.
He managed to get almost all of JFK's legislative agenda passed, while JFK
was unable to get any of it through while he was alive).
Johnson would have run again and won in 1968, Nixon would never have been
president, Watergate would not have happened, and the long Republican night
of the last 12 years would never have occurred. All because of
LBJ's insufferable hubris at not wanting to be the first president to
lose a war.
From: mjcarpen@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Michael J. Carpenter)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Lee: Skip work to attend Malcolm X
Date: 2 Sep 92 19:19:46 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

In article <1992Sep2.142832.4926@ntmtv> wattsww@ntmtv.UUCP (Warren Watts) writes:
>In article <1992Sep2.003404.18673@morrow.stanford.edu> HF.GTD@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gabrielle Daniels) writes:
>>>
>>>You don't see the face until the eyelids drop
>>>you don't hear the screaming until it stops
>>>
>>>Disposable Heroes of Hiphoprisy
>>>
>>>I hope if you put your words into actions you get the same treatment as
>>>your counterpart in this song.  I'd like to blow your brains out.
>>>
>>>Die in agony, M.F.,
>>.
>>.
>>.
>>You know, I can't tell who is being flamed here, Zafar or Terrance.
>>I will say this, I agree with Terrance.
>
>This is a quote from the song "Language of Violence" the only rap song
>so far to come out against gay bashing. My flame was definately
>directed at Zafar.  I'm suprised you haven't heard something about
>Disposable Heroes of Hiphoprisy if you are in the Bay Area, they were
>on the news a few months ago because of this song, talking about their
>views against gay bashing. Also they are in BAM quite a lot if you read
>Davy-D's collumn. I'll post the lyrics to this song when I get my
>album back, its loaned out to someone who is checking it out.
>
>Peace,
>	 Warren Watts

This is one area where rap is generally messed up about. I rarely post 
anything negative about rap; but, let's face it, it's far from an
enlightened path. Even Public Enemy has a line or two in more than
a single cut that are debatably anti-gay.

Mc
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: HF.GTD@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gabrielle Daniels)
Subject: Re: (quote) Duke pleads for money from followers (quote)
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 17:32:49 GMT

In article <1992Aug28.170009.5779@usl.edu>,
pssres12@ucs.usl.edu (Vignes Gerard M) writes:
>_ARICLE TAKEN FROM: The Times-Picayune, New Orleans, Louisiana
>_DATE: Friday, Aug. 14, 1992
>_PAGE: front-page, bottom
>
>_BEGIN QUOTE:
>
>                Duke pleads for money from followers
>
>                        By TYLER BRIDGES
>                        Staff writer
>
>Nine months after he was crushed by Edwin Edwards in the gubenatorial election,
>David Duke says he is broke, the target of an assassination plot and the
>subject of audits by the IRS and federal, state and local campaign authorities.
>
[superfluous shit deleted]


There was a little something about Duke's demise in the S.F.
Chronicle. Apparently, Buchanan stole his thunder...  Duke was never
known to be completely above board in his business dealings, so
claiming harasssment, IMHO, without taking into account his own
sticky fingers, makes it hard for even diehard white folks to feel
sorry for him.
.
Actually, it's not the out-front racists that bug me, but the more
insidious and casual ones in my midst, no matter how pretty they may
look and how lofty the ideals.  Scratch a surface, and one might get
the surprise of her life.
.
By the way, did you folks check out how Bush blew his chance to be
the Caring President?  You've got a lotta folks in South Florida
po'ed at him. Absolute chaos down there.
.
Remember, too that this is Zora Neale Hurston territory.  This is
where most of the action in "Their Eyes Were Watching God" occurred.
Who knows: her own hometown might have been blown off the map. So if
you see folks asking for contributions for South Florida, think of
Zora and put down a few dollars: Red Cross or anybody else.
.
(This is not to say that Louisiana, my birthplace, doesn't need any
help, but do your best and spread what little wealth you have.)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: eah0065@venus.tamu.edu (HASKIN, EDWARD ARTHUR)
Subject: Daughters of the Dust??
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 14:34:00 GMT

Could anyone tell about this movie production? Where can I see or get a copy
to view??


Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american,misc.headlines
From: bing@jazz.concert.net (Carter E. Bing)
Subject: Lee: Skip work to attend Malcolm X
Organization: Shabazz Deli
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 14:43:50 GMT

		Lee: Skip Work to Attend Malcolm X

		LA - Spike Lee has called on Africans and 
		African Americans to forgo work and school
		to attend the opening Nov 20 of his epic film
		Malcolm X.

		"We're telling them they've got to turn out to 
		support this film and support Malcolm," the AA
		director said in an interview in Wednesday`s 
		Los Angeles Times.

		Lee has refused to shorten the film, which runs
		about three hours, and said he won`t change an
		opening title sequence featuring a burning American
		flag in the shape of an X.

		He also said he won`t be editing out footage of the beating 
		of a African American man, Rodney King, by white police
		officers in Los Angeles in March 1991.


					taken without consent from
					The Herald Sun



--
 "The oak sleeps in the acorn, the gaint sequoia sleeps in it`s tiny seed,
  the bird waits in the egg and God waits for his unfolding in man."
       Funkadelic                       bing@concert.net
From: heath@athena.cs.uga.edu (Terrance Heath)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Lee: Skip work to attend Malcolm X
Date: 4 Sep 92 17:18:29 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens

In article <stovall.715555781@ficus.cs.ucla.edu> stovall@ficus.cs.ucla.edu (Steven Stovall) writes:
>heath@athena.cs.uga.edu (Terrance Heath) writes:
>
>>>Hey, dont blame me. These are the words of Allah in the surah "The Event"
>>>(English by Pickthall) about the events of the Last Day:
>>>
>>>	But if he is of the rejectors, the erring,
>>>	Then the welcome will be boiling water
>>>	And roasting at hellfire.
>>>
>
>>It seems to me than any professor of a religion the center of which is
>>love would be unable to express anything except despair at the thought
>>that anyone would suffer "hellfire" for all eternity.  It seems the
>>very antithesis of loving religion to look upon suffering with joy, or
>>even with indifference or matter-of-factly.
>
>Tell that to Allah on the Last Day.
>

Ah. Well. I'm not a Muslim, so Allah isn't the name by which I know
God. Trust me, the God-of-my-Understanding and I have had many long
chats on the subject, and I think we understand each other.
-- 
"Black men loving black men is THE revolutionary act!"
			-Joseph Beam_
Terrance Heath 
heath@athena.cs.uga.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: edsum02@venus.lerc.nasa.gov (Cassondra Pope)
Subject: Joie Lee??
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
Date: 31 Aug 1992 11:03 EDT  

Does anyone know if Joie Lee is in the upcoming Malcolm X film or any
other upcoming film for that matter??

I'd really like to see her in more of an acting vehicle and not just as
decoration in her brother's films. I think she's talented but she hasnt
been allowed to use her talent to the fullest. She was suppose to be in 
'Daughter's of the Dust' but I think she was working on 'Mo' Better Blues'.

Please post or e-mail any info. I appresh!

Cass (engineer-wannabe-filmmaker)
edsum02@venus.lerc.nasa.gov (expires 9 4 92)
gt9153a@prism.gatech.edu



Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: cmort@NCoast.ORG (Christopher Morton)
Subject: Re: 8-Trey Gangsta Madness
Reply-To: cmort@ncoast.org (Christopher Morton)
Organization: North Coast Public Access *NIX, Cleveland, OH
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 15:22:25 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.african.american

As quoted from <1SEP199207361976@venus.lerc.nasa.gov> by edsum02@venus.lerc.nasa.gov (Cassondra Pope):

> My point is that it was dangerous for a woman (or anyone) to be on a street
> corner at 10 p.m. The fact that the boys and the woman are of different races
> is the only thing that makes this incident "racial."  If you make everyone the
> same race in the same incident, then it becomes teenaged boys harassing a
> woman and it probably wouldnt have made the papers.

I'm not familiar with the area in question, but are you claiming that it's 
dangerous for somebody to be on ANY streetcorner at 10:00pm?  I notice you 
post from LeRC.  I live in Berea.  I haven't found the streetcorner in Berea
that isn't safe at 10:OOpm or at 03:00am.  I think you've made way too broad
of an assertion.

Of course if you make all participants in a lynching the same race instead of
the victim Black and the assailants White, THAT ceases to be a racial incident
too....


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------  

"Well whose opinions did you THINK these were...?" 
------------------------------------------------------------------  
Xref: sparky soc.culture.african.american:9153 misc.headlines:6155
From: barnhart@gagme.chi.il.us (Mr Aaron Barnhart)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american,misc.headlines
Subject: Re: Lee: Skip work to attend Malcolm X
Date: 2 Sep 92 12:44:54 GMT
Organization: Evanston, Illinois
Originator: barnhart@gagme

This is in reply to minhaszt@ucunix.san.uc.edu (Zafar T Minhas), who wrote:
:In article <1992Aug27.155006.29834@athena.cs.uga.edu> heath@athena.cs.uga.edu (Terrance Heath) writes:
:>
:>Having still not forgiven Lee for the homophobic content of "School
:>Daze", I don't think I'll be skipping work, school, or anything else
:>in order to see this movie and put money in his pocket. 
:>
:>If I want to know something about Malcolm X, I'll read the
:>autobiography or his speeches.  
:>
:>-- 
:>"Black men loving black men is THE revolutionary act!"
:>			-Joseph Beam_
:>Terrance Heath 
:>heath@athena.cs.uga.edu
:
:Spike Lee hates 'em, Malcolm X couldn't care for 'em. And I'd like to beat
:one up. 
:
:zafar
:
:

Onward Christian sollldiers, marching as to war,
With the anti-faggot talk stronger than before!


-- 
Mr. Aaron Barnhart@gagme.chi.il.us -- posting from Evanston, Illinois
From: ph111-bx@violet.berkeley.edu (;;;;7202)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: News re Lee's 'Malcolm X'
Date: 27 Aug 1992 20:12:02 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: violet.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Aug27.162532.6271@morrow.stanford.edu>
HF.GTD@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gabrielle Daniels) writes:
->Why should a black-made film be conveniently low budget?  Lee's film
->was only $5 million over budget, making the accountants squirm
->unnecessarily. I'm sure they don't mind major outlays for films like
->"Terminator 2," or "Hook," or "Apocalypse Now"...I mean, it's
->something that can be worked out at Spago's.  There are very few
->films that are brought in under or at budget in Hollywood-land.  If
->they don't make the returns back immediately at the box office, it's
->either made back in European and African and Asian rentals, on cable
->and in video tapes.
->.
->I say these accountants and execs are just freaked at Spike Lee's
->continuing audacity to hurl, as it were, right back at them at the
->double standards for putting together films and personnel.

Does anyone know of any budget or production issues that came up with
"Boyz N the Hood" or "New Jack City" or just general problems that
John Singleton or Mario Van Peebles had in making the movies and
dealing with the studios?  I'm wondering whether Lee's problems had
more to do with personality conflicts, i.e. pissing off studio execs
with his attitude, or if Singleton and Van Peebles also had to deal
with it?
From: mjcarpen@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Michael J. Carpenter)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Women Bashing
Date: 2 Sep 92 19:09:57 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

In article <1992Sep2.004723.29349@news.acns.nwu.edu> dowdy@tochtli.biochem.nwu.edu (Dowdy Jackson) writes:
>In article <0ecrTXO00iUxI204kj@andrew.cmu.edu> dc4l+@andrew.cmu.edu (Dean Calloway) writes:
 
>>While I try to refrain from such expressions (at least most of the
>>time), "FUCK RAP."
>>
>>That being said, what I mean is this: we have too many little boys (and
>>a bunch of them are in their twenties) who use rap as a model to pattern
>>their approach towards women after.  The more serious problem of what to
>>do about relationships between black men and women is obscured by
>>half-thinking, questionably talented young men who defend their
>>profanity through "Freedom of speech," "you don't understand the
>>ghetto," "I'm just playing and don't really mean it," and "that's just
>>the way I express myself."
>>
>>Bull****! While I enjoy music just as much as the next guy, the stuff
>>being turned out is just ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS!  Couching the ignorance
>>of young brothers in the above arguments makes it no less offensive or
>>wrong.
>>
>>DCAL
>
>I think the point is that the majority of black men DON'T feel the way that
>some of the rap songs portray black women. The problem I have is that many
>black women use this as an excuse to date a white man. They say that well
>the majority of black men don't respect black women so I'll date this
>white guy because he's different. That's a bunch of bull... I'm bringing
>this up because I have had black women who are dating white men tell me this
>kind of crap.

I suspected the same as a result of smidgets of information I've seen here and
there. It's a shame, or a sham, if a Black woman would make such presumptions
of any men, let alone White men. This is definitely an arena whereby considering
the individual is the best bet.

As for how rap influences the way we think of Black women, or women in general,
even if the guys don't adopt the attitude they listen to, some don't mind
using said attitude to dog a woman out (alt.rap provides an occasional example). 
It certainly blows holes in my defense of rap music as one way to reach the 
youth.

Mc