HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: malcolm@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: soc.roots
Subject: English Counties/Shires
Date: 12 Jan 93 09:10:30 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620

Here is my Ha'pennyworth (two cents to most of you!) on English counties
- I deliberately avoid including Wales, Scotland or Ireland (in no particular
order :-) ).

I should start with a disclaimer, I am no authority, not even remotely a
Historian. This is all from brief reading done since this thread started on
soc.roots.

Cornwall is a Duchy ... but so is Lancaster and that does not stop the county
being Lancashire! In fact there are many Dukes whose titles go with counties,
Kent and York are two that spring immediately to mind.

Another thought - Sheriff derives from Shire-reeve, the man given much of the
practical work of administering a shire when the Earl (shires all (well mostly)
started out as Anglo-Saxon Earldoms) got fed up with doing the job himself.
Kent is not <anything>shire but is did/does have a Sheriff so I guess that sort
of makes Kent a shire?

Now an aside, Oxford has a Sheriff. One traditional duty is to round up and
check the ownership of horses (and cattle too I guess) grazing on Wolvercote
Common which is on the outskirts of the (modern) City. He still does this each
year, well actually his men do. I think it is more of a ritual display nowadays
but I daresay the Sheriff goes along for the breakfast that goes with the
event!

Finally, I looked in my Shorter Oxford Dictionary. I have not got it here so I
am not quoting, but it goes along the lines of ...
Thinking of the -shire counties as Shires and others as not is modern, and
dervived from their names rather than vice versa. The term "the shires" is an
invention of those in the SE (London, Kent, East Anglia, Essex, Sussex, Surrey)
to denote "foreigners" from outside the SE corner of the country.

I think it boils down to their all being shires well before they were counties.
Some did, some did not, keep the tag "shire" in the names that evolved.

regards,
	Malcolm.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Malcolm Austen,                                          Tel: 0(+44) 865 273216
Oxford University Computing Services,                    Fax: 0(+44) 865 273275
13 Banbury Road,                        Email - JANET: malcolm@uk.ac.oxford.vax
Oxford, OX2 6NN                              Internet: malcolm@vax.oxford.ac.uk
England                            EARN/BITNET: malcolm%uk.ac.oxford.vax@ukacrl
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.roots
From: elle@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Ellen Keyne Seebacher)
Subject: German "middle" names (was Re: Two Questions...2 Cents Worth)
Reply-To: elle@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 17:23:24 GMT

In article <11JAN93.09721072.0027.MUSIC@NEMOMUS> Bob Behnen writes:
>Rob Bongiovi writes...
>> ...(no middle names listed). ... Could it be that this Henriette
>> Dorothea Louise was called Louise...? ... How common is this.
>
>I have found this too to be quite common. ...  Another side of my
>family, all the boys had Carl as their first name and then used their
>middle name to distinguish themselves from one another.

Actually, I'm not all that sure that "middle name" is a useful concept
when dealing with German naming patterns before this century.  In my
experience, children were _very often_ called by the name following
the first baptismal (saint's or godparent's) name.  Thus, of my great-
great-grandfather (Carl) Daniel Bottenus's eleven children, we find:

   (Helena) Emilie, (Sophie) Elvira [in both cases, the "first" names
     honored a mother or grandmother, but were never used];
   (Gustave) Adolph, (George) William, (Edwin) Ralph.

Of the other six, the only cases in which I'm sure that the first name
was used at all are my great-grandmother (who was called by both names,
"Anna Lydia"), and her brother Carl Caesar, who's referred to in the
family Bible simply as "Carl."

(Carl) Daniel Bottenus's father was one of five children, of whom the
boys were Johann Peter and Johann Friedrich, and the girls Maria
Catharina, Maria Friderica, and Catharina Philippina.

(Carl) Daniel's mother, (Johanne) Helena Daniels, had three sisters:  
Anna Catherina, Maria Gertrud, and Maria Catherina.  This is the oddest
case; I rather suspect (not having death dates for the sisters) that
they were _all_ called by their "middle" names, and that the first
Catherina died in the six years before the second was born.

Now, these examples are all Rheinland Protestants, but the other half
of my family is all southern (Alsace, Bavaria, Baden, etc.) Catholic,
and I often find the same pattern before this century:  my grandmother's
mother was (Mary) Barbara, _her_ mother was (Marie) Barbara, and so on.


Fred Rump, do you want to comment on the history of using "middle" names
in German-speaking lands?


--                    __
Ellen Keyne Seebacher \/             elle@midway.uchicago.edu
  [Seebacher, Gigler, Peintinger;  Stein, Lehrman(n), Luetzelschwab,
    Kunkel, Busch, Hartmann;  Ka(i)per, Bottenus, Daniels, Meuttmann; 
    Glover, Kline, Perceval, (Mac)Duff;  Quinn;  and many more...]
From: aguilbault@galaxy.gov.bc.ca
Newsgroups: soc.roots
Subject: Wisconsin Historical Library?
Date: 9 Jan 93 21:25:53 -0800
Organization: BC Systems Corporation


I tried the "First Search" library catalogue and was very impressed!

Could anyone give the address or phone number of the Wisconsin Historical
Library?  (shown as WI or WIH in First Search).

Thanks!

Alan Guilbault		INTERNET:  aguilbault@galaxy.gov.bc.ca
Victoria, Canada	Phone:     (604) 389-3090
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Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.30]
Newsgroups: soc.roots
Date:         Sat, 9 Jan 1993 15:17:54 MST
Reply-To:     John Spencer <jrs@HPESJRS.FC.HP.COM>
From:         John Spencer <jrs@HPESJRS.FC.HP.COM>
Subject:      Parents of Joseph Dudley Spencer
Comments: To: roots-l@vm1.NoDak.edu, gcoie@llkcts.linknet.com,
          eshephar@bingvmb.bitnet, wallau@karl.acc.iit.edu

Hello,

Can you help me place a Joseph (Dudley)? Spencer.  This was my ggggrandfather
and I am not positive of who his parents were.  My uncle did some genealogical
research years ago that I inherited that shows the following:


Joseph Dudley Spencer b. abt 1783 d. abt 1835 m. Sally Carleton abt 1817.
     Child: Elihu Spencer b. abt 1818

     Child: Harriet Spencer b. Apr 14, 1822 Dunded, Canada, Est. d. 1894
            Lincoln, NE.  m. __?__ Humphrey

     Child: Dudley Carleton Spencer M.D.  b. Nov. 17, 1828 Dunded, Canada, Est.
            d. 1894, Lincoln, NE  m. 1st w. Lovina Russell, 2nd w. Matilda
            Russell (sister of 1st wife).

     Child: Maryetta? Spencer


My uncle list the parents of Joseph Dudley Spencer as Joseph Spencer M.D. b.
abt 1783, d. abt 1835, m. Deborah Selden abt 1817.  Someone on the net sent me
information about Joseph Spencer M.D. that stated that there was a son of his
named Joseph who was apparently unmarried when he died.  Is it possible that I
have more complete information than has been previously known?

I have a photograph of a letter written about 1800 by Joseph Dudley to a miss
Sally Carleton when he was courting her.  It is a lovely letter that confirms
that he intended to marry Sally.

Thanks for your help,
John R. Spencer  (jrs@fc.HP.COM, (303) 229-3271)
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Newsgroups: soc.roots
Date:         Sun, 10 Jan 1993 20:31:12 -0600
Reply-To:     CHINN@VUCTRVAX.BITNET
From:         CHINN@VUCTRVAX.BITNET
Subject:      Brother's Keeper versus Roots III on PC
Comments: To: roots-l@ndsuvm1.bitnet

Dear Rooters,

I'm nearing a decision to ftp Brother's Keeper from hallc1.cebaf.gov
or order Roots III.  I was wondering if anyone on this list had a
review or recommendation on which I should buy.  From what I gather,
they both are highly rated.

One drawback of Roots III is that it is about $100 too expensive.
It sells for over $200, but I understand it can be ordered at a
discount.  How much is the license registration for Brother's
Keeper?  It think it was $135, but don't quote me on that.

Other than the cost, one feature of Roots III I like is the
ability to generate reports and "book format."  I haven't heard
that PAF can do this.  It it possible to do this with Brother's
Keeper?  I understand Roots III works something like Microsoft
products along the lines of Database and Word Processing software.

I guess the best thing for me to do is try them both (in time).

Steve (CHINN@CTRVAX.VANDERBILT.EDU)
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Priority: normal
X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail/Mac v2.02
Newsgroups: soc.roots
Date:         Mon, 11 Jan 1993 15:27:39 GMT+1200
Reply-To:     Kaye Saunders <KSaunders@GANDALF.OTAGO.AC.NZ>
From:         Kaye Saunders <KSaunders@GANDALF.OTAGO.AC.NZ>
Organization: University of Otago
Subject:      Re: Mac PAF Update? (Ever?)
Comments: To: ROOTS-L@vm1.nodak.edu

Hi Matt and others that are interested

We had a talk at our local genealogical computing group in November from
the local director of the Family History Centre and he said that he
understood that the LDS had written the original PAF etc for its members
to record the information necessary to do their family tree and that as
it does that satisfactorily they didn't find it necessary to update the
program for the sake of updating it.  Now I could be quoting him
incorrectly, and he may not have got the story right anyway, but from
what I heard I understand that the LDS aren't too interested in updating
the program for either version (DOS or MAC) but were quite happy to let
people write utilities so that the program can do what they want it to.
I'll be interested to see what anyone else has to say on the subject.

I myself have just bought a version of 2.1 for the MAC so that I can
export data from Reunion and get a decent pedigree chart from PAF.  But it
would be nice if they updated that version seeing it doesn't have all the
features of the DOS version and it was written in/before 1988.

Kaye

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
* Kaye Saunders                 Phone: +64 3 479 8397                 *
* Secretary                     Fax:   +64 3 479 8529                 *
* Computer Science Department   E-mail: KSaunders@gandalf.otago.ac.nz *
* PO Box 56                         or  cosc21@otago.ac.nz            *
* Dunedin, New Zealand                                                *
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
From: jsanders@phys.ksu.edu (Justin M. Sanders)
Newsgroups: soc.roots
Subject: Re: Nickname (Dicey)
Date: 12 Jan 1993 15:07:14 GMT
Organization: Department of Physics, Kansas State University, Manhattan KS, USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: bohr.phys.ksu.edu

In article <ROOTS-L%93011122384107@VM1.NODAK.EDU> 
JMILLER@PRIME.MHSL.UAB.EDU writes:
>Does anyone know the origin of the given name "Dicey"?  Is it a nickname or a
>given name?

Dicey was a popular name for female slaves.  It may therefore have a
West African origin.

--
Justin M. Sanders    "...a beautiful theory, killed by a nasty,
Dept. of Physics                  ugly little fact."
Kansas State Univ.                         -- T.H. Huxley
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Organization: from SUNY College at Buffalo, NY 14222
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Newsgroups: soc.roots
Date:         Tue, 5 Jan 1993 23:04:55 -0400
Reply-To:     LOMBARJA@SNYBUFVA.BITNET
From:         LOMBARJA@SNYBUFVA.BITNET
Subject:      DIVIZIO,RICIGLIANO,ALBINI,LOMBARDI(O)

aTTENTION,Newark,New Jersey. Can anyone with any information on the above
names please forward same to me. Newark was first settlement since arrival
in 1901. May have come form San Fele, Italy or Ferrazzano,Italy. Thanks
for help.  John Lombardo
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Newsgroups: soc.roots
Date:         Mon, 11 Jan 1993 20:20:36 -0600
Reply-To:     cmanis@csoftec.csf.com
From:         Cliff Manis <cmanis@CSOFTEC.CSF.COM>
Organization: CompSofTech, POB 33937, San Antonio, Texas 78265-3937
Subject:      BECKWITH Surname
Comments: To: Genealogy Information <ROOTS-L@VM1.NoDak.EDU>

Readers:

One of my co-workers is Richard Beckwith, and has a lot of his own
family history.

He asked me to post a message asking those of you who have the
surname BECKWITH, to please send me a message direct, and I will
pass it to him.   Some of his BECKWITH family was also from
Argentina, and he has a lot of that history.

Thanks for any reply.

later..cliff
--
Cliff Manis            K4ZTF           Manis/Manes Family History
Researching: MANIS MANES MANESS MANAS WHITEHORN CANTER BIRD CORBETT NEWMAN
    USMAIL:   P. O. Box 33937, San Antonio, Texas  78265-3937
               INTERNET: cmanis@csoftec.csf.com
Standard Disclaimer:  We are not associated with anyone. (PERIOD). (.)
--
Newsgroups: soc.roots
From: brett@sr.hp.com ()
Subject: GEDCOM documentation
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 19:55:33 GMT
Organization: HP Sonoma County (SRSD/MWTD/MID)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8.1]
Keywords: GEDCOM

I imagine this is probably a FAQ, but...

Does anyone have an on-line version of the GEDCOM specification that is
up-to-date (whatever the current revision is).  I know it's available from
various sources in printed form, but I would like an on-line version if I
can find one.

Thanks.

--

							Brett Carver
							(707) 577-4344
							brett@sr.hp.com
Organization: Computing Technology Services, Michigan Technological Univ.
Date: Saturday, 9 Jan 1993 22:35:57 EST
From: Matt Adair <MLADAIR@MTUS5.BITNET>
Newsgroups: soc.roots
Subject: Re: CD/ROM,DOS/MAC, FHC
 <1993Jan6.185702.16073@netcom.com>

I forgot a few things in my original followup:

Access-PC is a Contol Panel that runs quietly in the background
It will also allow you to format IBM disks in eith low or high density
Newsgroups: soc.roots
From: beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca (Denis Beauregard)
Subject: Re: DeskJet refills / Skrip ink
Organization: Institut de recherche d'Hydro-Quebec, Varennes, Canada
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 23:05:30 GMT

In article <1993Jan7.160147.11129@vax.oxford.ac.uk> malcolm@vax.oxford.ac.uk writes:
>"Skrip" - k, no t - is the brand name for SHEAFFER inks. They seem to be
>dropping the Skrip name, it now only appears on the bottle cap, not on any of
>the packaging. Nothing to do with inkjet refills! - they happen to make the
>only brown ink I like the colour of.
>
>Happy New Year,
>	Malcolm.

But, it is the brand I am using as inkjet refill.  I use black ink.

-- 
  \_\    Denis Beauregard  *  internet:beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca
 /   \   Ge'ne'alogiste des familles : Beauregard/Jarret/Jarest/Vincent
J   __>  Un Que'bec renouvele' dans une Ame'rique renove'e
\_.-===  Ope'rateur de "Racines du Que'bec" (514) 922-9636 BBS/Genealogie
Newsgroups: soc.roots
From: eggertj@moses.atc.ll.mit.edu (Jim Eggert x6127 g41)
Subject: Re: Am I Doing This Right? (was: Re: Royalty GedCom, etc.)
Followup-To: soc.roots
Reply-To: eggertj@atc.ll.mit.edu
Organization: MIT Lincoln Lab - Group 41
Date: 5 Jan 93 17:05:19

In article <1993Jan5.171931.9583@nsscmail.att.com> cel@nsscmail.att.com (clayton EDward LEIHY iii) writes:
>   Then last week, having some time off at Christmas, I finally cracked a
>   couple of books on genealogy and discovered to my surprise that this
>   word comes has to do with the tracing of my DIRECT ancestors ("genes").
>
>   Finally, the POINT:  Am I way off base in trying to build a collection of
>   names connected to myself (and my wife), as opposed to devoting more of
>   my/our energy to ascertaining my DIRECT ancestors in as much detail as
>   possible??  I really have derived a lot of enjoyment and satisfaction in
>   just visiting with relatives that I've never seen before (and will probably
>   never see again), hearing their stories, and recording what I can -- FTJ
>   does have a neat narrative section where each person's activities can
>   be documented.

You are doing it exactly right.  This is a hobby, and anyone can do it
the way he/she wants to.  You can take others' suggestions and use
what you like, and discard the nonsense.  You are very lucky to do
family history with living family.  The dead people can wait.
--
=Jim  eggertj@atc.ll.mit.edu (Jim Eggert)
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Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.30]
Newsgroups: soc.roots
Date:         Fri, 8 Jan 1993 09:23:34 MST
Reply-To:     Joe Price <price@PHYSICS.ISU.EDU>
From:         Joe Price <price@PHYSICS.ISU.EDU>
Subject:      GED2TT
Comments: To: roots-l distribution <roots-l@vm1.nodak.edu>

The program GED2TT was mentioned in a recent message.  Does anyone know
how to obtain a copy of this program?

I would appreciate receiving this infromation.  Perhaps the information
would be usfeul to other ROOTERS so it might be appropriate to post to the
entire list.

Joe Price
Pocatello, ID
Newsgroups: soc.roots
From: kathleen@casbs.Stanford.EDU (Kathleen Much)
Subject: Re: 1992 IGI Microfiche
Organization: Center for Advanced Study in the Behavioral Sciences
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 01:54:35 GMT

In article <EGGERTJ.93Jan12153617@moses.atc.ll.mit.edu> eggertj@atc.ll.mit.edu writes:
>In article <ROOTS-L%93011209342788@VM1.NODAK.EDU> Suzanne Badenhop <AHCSBB@UKCC.UKY.EDU> writes:
>>   Are the readers aware that the 1992 IGI microfiche version is now
>>   available at the local Family History Centers.  I was pleasantly
>>   surprised to learn this last week.  The CD-ROM version will be
>>   available to local centers in about two months according to the
>>   local person in charge.
>
>At my local FHC they have the new CD-ROMs already.  Or so I was told.

I checked the Menlo Park, CA, FHC last Saturday.  They couldn't
predict when the new CD-ROMs would come.  One person said it might be
next year!  He wanted me to use the fiches, but I think I'll wait.

-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Kathleen Much, Editor		|E-mail: kathleen@casbs.stanford.EDU
CASBS, 202 Junipero Serra Blvd.	|Phone: (415) 321-2052
Stanford, CA  94305		|Fax: (415) 321-1192
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Newsgroups: soc.roots
Date:         Fri, 8 Jan 1993 07:45:30 EDT
Reply-To:     Bob Oliphant <oliphant@BBN.COM>
From:         Bob Oliphant <oliphant@BBN.COM>
Subject:      Re: Civil War
Comments: To: BAINTER@ESDSDF.DNET.GE.COM, roots-l@vm1.nodak.edu

Nancy (bainter@esdsdf.dnet.ge.com) asks:
>
>On some info I've gotten on my gggrandfather, it states that for a
>period of time during his enlistment, he was on "detached duty" to
>the Pioneer Corps.  I figure that detached duty means service away
>from his regular regiment, but has anyone ever heard of the Pioneer
>Corps?  I've checked the CW volumes that I own and can find now
>(I mean, no) reference to it.  Can anybody help??

The Pioneer Corps was not a "Corps" in the usual military sense. Rather,
it was usually a group of a dozen or so men in many Union regiments who
were skilled in the use of the axe and other hand tools.  They are
somewhat equivalent to an Engineering Battalion of today.  They were
responsible for such things as cutting roads through woods, laying
corduroy roads, helping the regiment erect huts for winter quarters, and
erecting entrenchments when the regiment was in a defensive position.

I am familiar with the Pioneer Corps of the 148th Pennsylvania
Infantry Regiment.  Their members were described as all being large men
who each carried a large, polished axe when the regiment was on the
march.  They marched at the head of the regiment.  The regimental
history for this unit, published c. 1904, has a good description of
their Pioneer Corps.  Other Civil War regimental histories may also have
similar descriptions.

Was your gggrandfather a large guy?

Bob Oliphant
oliphant@bbn.com

**Researching OLIPHANT, DAVIDSON, STRANAGHAN, HORTON, MAY, MILLER**
****GEIST, ROHRBACH, ALLEN, PORTER, BEARDSLEY, CANTLEY, CROSLEY****
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Organization: Samford University Computer Services
Newsgroups: soc.roots
Date:         Mon, 4 Jan 1993 09:31:23 CST
Reply-To:     THE GAR <GLWARNER@SAMFORD.BITNET>
From:         THE GAR <GLWARNER@SAMFORD.BITNET>
Subject:      Defiance County Ohio

I found an interesting newsletter in Cincinnati that was for the
Defiance County Chapter of the Ohio Genealogical Society.  I got
information on joining, because there are at least two members that
are fourth cousins or closer based on some of their articles, all on
lines that I am stumped on.  But I am wondering what other people
have found the experience to be like.  How much benefit is there
to belonging to a local genealogical society for an area where
two lines converged, but where you will NEVER be able to attend
meetings?  Would it be worth it to be able to receive a quarterly
10-15 page newsletter that has so far mentioned these two lines only
about 6 times in 10 years?  Of course I would have "query" privileges
as a member, but I already have a list of members adresses from
one of the issues.

Advice welcome.


 /++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++\
!  Later        +   Systems Programmer                                 !
!  Gary Warner  +   Samford University Computer Services               !
!               +   II TIMOTHY 2:15                                    !
 \+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++/
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: soc.roots
Date:         Tue, 5 Jan 1993 09:38:40 -0600
Reply-To:     "Nancy W. Grady" <gradynw@ORNL.GOV>
From:         "Nancy W. Grady" <gradynw@ORNL.GOV>
Subject:      Re: CD/ROM,DOS/MAC, FHC
Comments: To: ROOTS-L@vm1.nodak.edu

>> From:        NAME: David L. Carson <carsod@rpi.edu@umcgate@STC10>

>> How do I get from DOS format to MAC format?  Is
>> there a program which will translate for me?  How
>> will I get my MAC to accept the DOS formatted disk?

A shareware utility called DOS-MOUNTER will let you use a dos disk in newer
mac drives.

This utility is included in MacLink-Plus, a program that converts among all
mac and pc formats for word-processing files, spreadsheets, database,
graphics, text, and binary files, etc.  One version also includes the
cables needed to hard-wire a mac and a pc.

I don't recall how well you can copy text between mac and pc disks only
using DOS MOUNTER, without translating.  I think there are <CR> and <LF>
problems.




Nancy W. Grady
phone (615)574-4330
fax   (615)574-0323
gradynw@ornl.gov
Newsgroups: soc.roots