HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kurt@eskimo.celestial.com (Kurt Cockrm 762-6417)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
Subject: Re: what children can do
Date: 13 Apr 92 18:40:13 GMT
Organization: Cores 'R Us

In article <MS-C.703107635.368800899.mrc@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU> mrc@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU (Mark Crispin) writes:
>Do you liberals think that Nazis should be allowed to give children weapons
>and tell them they need to go and kill `yids, commies, niggers, faggots,...'?
>Or is it that `censorship' is alright when it offends the liberal agenda.
>
>I note the howling mob of lefties who were calling for all sorts of nasty
>things against General Schwartzkopf when he came to speak here.  Somehow this
>doesn't suggest a commitment to individual freedoms to me.
>
>Count me as one who believes that parents have the right to restrict what
>their children may have access to, and have the right to pressure government
>to restrict sales to children of certain particularly harmful items such as
>tobacco, alcohol & other drugs, and other material that children are not yet
>able to handle in a mature fashion.
>
>Incidentally, I am just as opposed to handing out `holy bibles' to children in
>public.  If parents wish to take their children to a cult meeting where such
>is done, fine; but I don't want *my* kids given bibles without my consent.
>
>It is one thing to argue about free access to adults of any material.  It is
>quite another to argue about such for children.

Speaking as an ex-child, can you say that the restrictions they imposed on
you did any good?  Why or why not?

kurt@grogatch.celestial.com (Kurt Cockrum)
From: harrity@sumax.seattleu.edu (Daniel John Harrity)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
Subject: Re: music censorship in WA state now in effect
Keywords: fascist censorship (shudder!)
Date: 7 Apr 92 17:57:57 GMT
Distribution: seattle
Organization: Seattle University, Seattle WA

In article <1992Apr7.043045.7060@u.washington.edu> iho@cac.washington.edu writes:
>lamontg@milton.u.washington.edu (Lamont Granquist) writes:
>
>How is this different from the existing rating system for movies?

This is the same question I've been seeking an answer to.  Yes, I 
*know* it's a private board that rates movies and not the government,
but is it any less wrong, by anti-censorship standards, to rate the 
movies and then <gasp!> prohibit certain people from seeing them?
From: pat@rwing.UUCP (Pat Myrto)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
Subject: Re: KING 5 and others
Date: 8 Apr 92 14:50:36 GMT
Distribution: seattle
Organization: Totally Unorganized

In article <656@nazgul.UUCP> bright@nazgul.UUCP (Walter Bright) writes:
:In article <2194@bcstec.boeing.com> robs@bcstec.boeing.com (Robert Sipe) writes:
:>I feel
:>Ken Schram takes the cake when it comes to commentaries.
:
:Have you ever watched him on Town Meeting? He piously poses as being unbiased
:by selecting guests on both sides of an issue. Then watch him in action. He
:repeatedly cuts off the guest he disagrees with and hands the floor over to
:the other. He also asks inflammatory questions of the guest he doesn't like.
:
:I don't like him.  He's an embarassment to the journalism profession.
:Someday I'm going to get tickets to Town Meeting and am going to give
:him a piece of my mind :-)

Those characteristics of Schram (highly biased, and not even half cool
or polished about it) are probably one of the reasons he remains a local
personality, instead of getting gigs on nation-wide network shows.
While many of the folks that make policy on the networks may have a
"Politically Correct(tm)" outlook, and hire personalities that have
philosophies in agreement with that `standard', I suspect they would
avoid people that lack the polish to be able to give biased shows and
documentaries, while half appearing to be objective.

He is a small-potatoes irritant, and most likely will remain so, IMHO.

-- 
pat@rwing.uucp                                  (Pat Myrto),  Seattle, WA
                 Decent return path under construction

WISDOM:    "Travelling unarmed is like boating without a life jacket" 
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: bright@nazgul.UUCP (Walter Bright)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
Subject: Re: NBC News report on Jerry Brown
Date: 10 Apr 92 01:50:49 GMT
Reply-To: bright@nazgul.UUCP (Walter Bright)
Organization: Zortech, Seattle

In article <1992Apr9.102041.25924@polari.com> bruceki@polari.com writes:
/In article <MS-C.702788024.662824084.mrc@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU> mrc@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU (Mark Crispin) writes:
/>Not just NBC news, but even the ultra-liberal Seattle Times (Monday
/  Mark, in simple words:  THE TIMES IS NOT THE LIBERAL PAPER OF THE
/TWO.  IT IS NOT "ULTRA LIBERAL".  ITS EDITORIAL CONTENT FALLS INTO
/THE CONSERVATIVE CATAGORY.  IF YOU THINK THE TIMES IS LIBERAL, YOU
/SHOULD PROBABLY LOOK CLOSELY AT YOUR DEFINITION OF LIBERAL.

I've read the Times on and off over the years. In every election, I have
*never* seen them oppose either a tax increase or a state spending increase.
The Times is in favor of Tax and Spend, which falls under my definition
of liberal.

I grant you that they are not as radical as the Boston Globe.
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: lcornell@milton.u.washington.edu (Linda Cornell)
Subject: Re: Tax Accounting Fees
Keywords: taxes  accountant  fees
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Distribution: seattle
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1992 20:47:51 GMT

I have been going to Boyd K. of the Marshall & Boyd Accountants for about
5 or 6 years now.  They are at 8014 - 15th NE in Seattle, and their phone
number is 525-1040
              ^^^^  cute :)!

Anyway, they have always done and good job, they explain things well when
I have questions, and they have asked good questions that have saved me
$$$!  He is also always threatening to cut up my credit cards....but
that's another story.  He re-worked 2 years worth of returns that another
accountant did, and managed to get me quite a few $$$'s back.  

I found out about him through a friend, and I have recommended him to many
other folks - I have yet to hear anything bad back!  

If you need additional information, drop me a line!

Linda Cornell
lcornell@u.washington.edu
From: jrdobbs@milton.u.washington.edu (J R "Bob" Dobbs)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
Subject: Re: music censorship in WA state now in effect
Keywords: fascist censorship (shudder!)
Date: 8 Apr 92 22:42:40 GMT
Distribution: seattle
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

Even if you believe the gov't should regulate kid's sensory input, why
do you think "erotic" music is a bigger threat than say, violent TV.

While it's possible that a kid might be influenced to have sex before they
are responsible and get AIDS as a result (I think this is really reaching),
it's more likely the proverbial 17,000 murders they see in the media will
have a detrimental effect.

This isn't rocket science here, guys.  TV in Europe shows a lot more skin,
and a lot less violence.  They have a LOT less violence there (including
rape).

Yesterday a friend told me the Edge (a "new wave" radio station) was playing
a radio song glorifying rape.  I think if there is ANY censorship in society
it belongs on the airwaves (a limited resource accessable to anyone).  I don't
need the gov't telling me I can't sell a Public Enemy album to some kid
because of a few "dirty" words while he can watch blood and guts on TV to
his heart's content.
From: il@bambam.u.washington.edu (Il Hwan Oh)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
Subject: Re: why the pilgrims left England
Date: 12 Apr 92 08:34:23 GMT
Organization: University of Washington

Mark Crispin <mrc@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU> writes:
>     In the name of historical accuracy, let me point out that
[etc., etc....]

Ouch!  Now I'm being defended by Mark Crispin.  Man, I've REALLY hit
the skids!  :)

-- 
Il Hwan Oh                    | "A university is a place where people pay
Computer Facilities Manager   | high prices for goods which they then
Univ. of Washington, Tacoma   | proceed to leave on the counter when
iho@cac.washington.edu        | they go out of the store." -- Loren Eisley
From: donn@brat.UUCP (Donn Pedro)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
Subject: Re: music censorship in WA state now in effect
Keywords: fascist censorship (shudder!)
Date: 11 Apr 92 16:28:10 GMT
Distribution: seattle
Organization: Tandemonium, Kent, WA

In article <1992Apr10.023421.29715@u.washington.edu> iho@cac.washington.edu writes:

Something incredible.

>This is exactly what she did.  She's prevented her children from buying
>albums she doesn't approve of.  The fact that other children in the state
>can't buy them either is merely an unfortunate (depending on your view of
>the matter) side-effect.

Thank you for playing.  That is not what she did.  She want to daddy
and had him make a decision *for* her because she couldn't handle it
herself.

Go lemmings, go.



     Donn Pedro ....................a.k.a. uunet!nwnexus!brat!donn
         			     else:  uunet!uswnvg!dfpedro
	
	       "You talk the talk.  Do you walk the walk?"
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: ceng@mdd.comm.mot.com (Curtis Eng)
Subject: Re: General Schwartzcouph
Organization: Motorola, Mobile Data Division - Seattle, WA
Distribution: seattle
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 16:20:28 GMT

In article <70551@bcsaic.UUCP>, davidk@bcsaic.UUCP (Dave Kerlick) writes:
|> In article <1992Apr2.200724.26312@mdd.comm.mot.com> ceng@mdd.comm.mot.com (Curtis Eng) writes in defense of the mass murderer Schwartzkopf
|> 
|> 
|> > Every person in the military, enlisted or officer, must
|> >take on oath of enlistment, or oath of office, depending on if you are
|> >enlisted or officer.  The oath specificely states that you WILL follow
|> >the orders of those put in command of you.  Not maybe you should, or 
|> >if you feel like it, or if it's something you want to do.  It says
|> >that you WILL, period.
|> 
|> Remember what the US said at Nuremburg? "I was just obeying orders" is
|> no excuse for genocide.
|> 
Good point.  But this wasn't genocide.  It was a military operation designed
to accomplish the assigned mission which was to remove Iraq from Kuwait.
Not the "Final Solution."
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: bruceki@polari.com
Subject: Re: music censorship in WA state now in effect
Keywords: fascist censorship (shudder!)
Organization: Seattle Online Public Access Unix (206) 328-4944
Distribution: seattle
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 10:25:56 GMT

In article <1992Apr8.224240.3316@u.washington.edu> jrdobbs@milton.u.washington.edu (J R "Bob" Dobbs) writes:
[Some deleted]
>Yesterday a friend told me the Edge (a "new wave" radio station) was playing
>a radio song glorifying rape.  I think if there is ANY censorship in society
[More deleted]

  The song is by a band named "Toe the wet sprocket" and is about the
anguish suffered when the girlfriend of the song writer was raped.
The song title is "Hold her down" and some of the lyrics say things 
like "...the hell they put you through..." "I'm sorry about what a
man can do...", &c.

  You, and other censorship advocates, seem unwilling to either do your
homework or allow people freedom of choice in what they listen to.  Go
do your homework.  

  "Well, yes, I used to have a right to free speech, but I heard someone
say it had been used to say bad things, so I guess I don't need the
right to free speech..."

  Amazing.
From: strong@tc.fluke.COM (Norm Strong)
Subject: Re: even the Seattle Times is blasting Jerry Brown's flat tax
Organization: John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, WA
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 18:46:01 GMT

In article <1992Apr8.170537.8833@fylz.wa.com> fyl@fylz.wa.com (Phil Hughes) writes:
}In article <MS-C.702636404.377401575.mrc@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU> Mark Crispin <mrc@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU> writes:
}>The Monday issue of the Seattle Times showed what the effect of Jerry Brown's
}>flat tax would be: a tax increase for the poor, a slight tax cut for the
}>middle class, and a *BIG* tax cut for the rich.
}
}And the Tuesday issue of the Seattle Times had three letters to the
}editor explaining why the Times did their calculations wrong.
}
}>How do our Seattle liberal supporters of Jerry Brown justify themselves now
}>that even their main propaganda rag is against them?
}
}I don't know about the liberal supporters of Jerry Brown but this
}supporter of Jerry Brown certainly wouldn't consider the Seattle Times
}as being the kind of propaganda rag that would support liberals.  I
}suggest you talk a look at other media from around the country and
}around the world before you conclude that the Seattle Times is
}liberal.

It makes no difference how the Times feels about Brown's tax plan.  In
fact it doesn't make any difference what the plan is.  Even if Brown
were to be elected president he would not be able to bring his tax plan
into existence without changes so drastic that even he probably wouldn't
recognize it.  

Quit worrying about the legislative plans offered by candidates for
administrative offices.  None of them are going to come to pass.  

-- 

Norm Strong  (strong@tc.fluke.com)
2528 31st S.   Seattle WA 98144   USA
From: moriarty@tc.fluke.COM (Jeff Meyer)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
Subject: Re: difference between the Seattle Times and the PI
Date: 10 Apr 92 18:40:07 GMT
Reply-To: moriarty@tc.fluke.COM (Jeff Meyer)
Organization: The John Fluke Mfg. Co.  /a.k.a. The Gizmonics Institute/

In <MS-C.702852388.1103527590.mrc@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU> mrc@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU (Mark Crispin) writes:

>The only difference between the Seattle Times and the PI is `Doonesbury.'  

No, Mark: the only difference between the Seattle Times and the PI is
`Doonesbury' *and* `Calvin and Hobbes'.

----

Actually, I can't really comment on this; I gave up on the Times (except
Sundays, and that's for the TV pull-out section and Hartl's video column) a
very long time ago.  My few experiences with the P.I. are that they are a
bit better in local reporting and have a better film critic; but it's not up
to the level that I'd want to subscribe.  Instead, I get the ECONOMIST for
national/world news, and wish vainly for a good local newspaper (even a
weekly.) 

My idea of a good local newspaper, BTW, is the Oregonian.  While I don't
generally agree with some of their editorial output (it has improved,
though), they were and are awfully good about getting the facts of local
government out into the open.  The Times, in comparison, reminds me of local
TV news, but on paper.

                           NATIONAL ENQUIRER headline:
                           "Reagan sees UFO and orders his pilot: Follow it!"
---
                                        Moriarty, aka Jeff Meyer
INTERNET:     moriarty@tc.fluke.COM
Manual UUCP:  {uunet, uw-beaver, sun, microsoft}!fluke!moriarty
CREDO:        You gotta be Cruel to be Kind...
                 **>> Keep circulating the tapes <<**
From: dbj@cs.washington.edu (Dave Johnson)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
Subject: Re: music censorship in WA state now in effect
Keywords: fascist censorship (shudder!)
Date: 10 Apr 92 15:01:53 GMT
Distribution: seattle
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, U. of Washington, Seattle

In article <1992Apr10.023421.29715@u.washington.edu> iho@cac.washington.edu writes:
>nanook@eskimo.celestial.com (Robert Dinse) writes:
>> il@bambam.u.washington.edu (Il Hwan Oh) writes:
>
>> > At the risk of being branded a fascist, I'm gonna have to play devil's
>> > advocate here.  What this lady wanted was to try to control what her kids
>> > listen to.  If you feel your children can listen to a given CD or whatever,
>> > you can buy it for them.  This lady merely felt that things that were out
>> > of her control were influencing her children, and she did what she thought
>> > was the best thing for her children.  We're not talking about a universal
>> > ban here.
>> 
>>      I SHOULDN'T HAVE TO GO BUY IT FOR THEM!  If she doesn't want her children
>> to listen to this music then it should be HER responsibility to prevent them
>> from doing so.  WHY IN THE HELL CAN'T PEOPLE TAKE ANY RESPONSIBILITY FOR
>> THEIR OWN LIVES ANYMORE?
>
>This is exactly what she did.  She's prevented her children from buying
>albums she doesn't approve of.  The fact that other children in the state
>can't buy them either is merely an unfortunate (depending on your view of
>the matter) side-effect.

Gee, my son Chubbo is getting awfully fat these days, and I know
why.  It's because of all those nasty candy bars he eats.  Those things
don't have any nutritive value, and they obviously have a bad effect
on poor little Chubbo, so they're horrible and children shouldn't be
able to buy them, so I think I'll get a law passed so that noone under
the age of 18 can buy a candy bar.  Chubbo will slim down, become so
popular he'll be elected class president, and I'll be so proud.

-- 
  Dave Johnson

"You're not too smart, are you?  I like that in a man."
    --Kathleen Turner in Body Heat
From: kurt@eskimo.celestial.com (Kurt Cockrm 762-6417)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
Subject: Re: from the source of the censorship issue
Summary: I can hit you softer than you can hit me
Date: 13 Apr 92 17:51:21 GMT
Organization: Cores 'R Us

In article <3940012@iftccu.boeing.com> leslie@iftccu.boeing.com (Dan Leslie) writes:
>:
[...]
>Recently I had the most fulfilling experience.  I single-handedly started, promoted, and followed through with HB2554.  It turned out to be the most controversial bill ever.  It was the 'Erotic-Music Bill'.  [...]

...and it went like this:

>        If you s*ck my d*ck, I'll eat your pu**y.
>        Lick my a*s b*t*h up and down,
>        Lick it till your tongue turns doo doo brown
>        Put your lips on my d**k and suck my as*hole too.
>        Suck my d**k and make it puke.
>        Forget the salads and just eat my meat.
>        When you don't have a d**k
>           just finger-f**k yourself.
>        We can do whatever comes to mind,
>           let me stick my d**k in your behind.
>
>This Bill passed overwhelmingly in the House and in the Senate.  The Lawmakers were floored when they saw the lyrics, as were most other decent and concerned people. 

[...]

>[...]  Any decent law-abiding citizen with morals and values and also with worries of where our youth is going today would agree that these lyrics should be put in the same category as 
>
>
>
>                             KAREN LESLIE.....
>
>P.S. Your bean analogy was quite clever..HA HA!!

You win!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You win!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You win!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

kurt@grogatch.celestial.com (Kurt Cockrum)
From: fyl@fylz.wa.com (Phil Hughes)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
Subject: Re: even the Seattle Times is blasting Jerry Brown's flat tax
Date: 8 Apr 92 17:05:37 GMT
Organization: FYL, Seattle, WA

In article <MS-C.702636404.377401575.mrc@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU> Mark Crispin <mrc@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU> writes:
>The Monday issue of the Seattle Times showed what the effect of Jerry Brown's
>flat tax would be: a tax increase for the poor, a slight tax cut for the
>middle class, and a *BIG* tax cut for the rich.

And the Tuesday issue of the Seattle Times had three letters to the
editor explaining why the Times did their calculations wrong.

>How do our Seattle liberal supporters of Jerry Brown justify themselves now
>that even their main propaganda rag is against them?

I don't know about the liberal supporters of Jerry Brown but this
supporter of Jerry Brown certainly wouldn't consider the Seattle Times
as being the kind of propaganda rag that would support liberals.  I
suggest you talk a look at other media from around the country and
around the world before you conclude that the Seattle Times is
liberal.

-- 
Phil Hughes - FYL - 8315 Lk City Wy NE - Suite 207 - Seattle, WA 98115 
Phone: 206-526-2919 x74      Fax: 526-0803
E-mail: fyl@cpac.washington.edu or fyl@fylz.wa.com
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: gilbert@mdd.comm.mot.com (John Gilbert)
Subject: Re: `Music censorship' issue
Organization: Motorola, Mobile Data Division - Seattle, WA
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 05:59:40 GMT

In article <MS-C.702601260.267834847.mrc@marge.cac.washington.edu> Mark Crispin <mrc@marge.cac.washington.edu> writes:

>     I find it strange that the same sorts of people who protest against a
>photographer soliticing models for "Playboy's Girls of the Pacific Northwest"
>will leap to the defense of songs advocating violence against women.

Do you hear these people running around trying to pass a law to prevent
people from soliciting these models?

Speaking your mind, especially in an effort to help form public opinion
is a lot different than passing a law to not let someone else do what you
don't want to happen...  I have absolutely NOOOO problem with folks who
want to protest these songs.  Oh, but geeee, thats so haaarrrd.  I know, let's
just pass a law instead and then we won't have to think... yeah, that's it,
lets get the government involved!!!!

I don't defend any one particular song.  I defend a principal that says that
some relatively small group of folks should not get together and make
the morality of the people the business of a governmental body...

Rocket science indeed...

-- 
John Gilbert
gilbert@mdd.comm.mot.com
...!uunet!mdisea!gilbert
From: dcb@kopachuk.uucp (David Breneman)
Subject: Re: music censorship in WA state now in effect
Followup-To: alt.flame
Keywords: fascist censorship (shudder!)
Organization: Tacoma Screw Products, Inc.
Distribution: seattle
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 20:12:27 GMT

In article <1992Apr8.210536.21677@u.washington.edu> iho@cac.washington.edu writes:
>gilbert@mdd.comm.mot.com (John Gilbert) writes:
>
>> What she asked for was for some governmental agency to make a
>> VALUE JUDGEMENT (so she wouldn't have to pay attention) for ALL of
>> us.  What she is really after is to be able to PRESUME that any music
>> her kids get ahold of will be OK with her.
>
>In my opinion, that's what government is for: to force the values
>of the majority on the rest of the population.  I don't think that's
>a bad thing.  In order to have an orderly society, each of us has to
>forfeit certain liberties.

Oh, well, this is a very nice political philosophy.
Mob Rule as the paradigm of fascist good government.
If such a government comes to pass, will you be our Fuehrer?
I'd like the job, but I'll probably already have been shot to death
defending my home from the police.

>It is physically impossible for most mothers (or fathers) to supervise
>their children 24 hours a day.  The economic climate dictates that both
>parents must work (for most people).  As members of a society, we all
>must take responsibility for children, not just the parents.

Sorry, I categorically refuse to take any responsibility for anybody's
children.  What are you going to do about it?  Have me eliminated for
the good of the collective?

>                                                              The other
>choice is to cloister ourselves in our homes and educate our children
>ourselves, never letting them out of the house.

I don't get it.  Forced collective responsibility for all children
or house arrest for all children.  Either/Or?  I don't get it.

-- 
David Breneman     Sys Admin, Tacoma Screw Products, Inc. |  ____  ____  ____
dcb@tacoma.uucp              | SCREWIE the TSP CLOWN sez- |   /   /___  /___/ 
 ..!uunet!stephsf!tacoma!dcb |"Stainless steel bolts are  |  /   ____/ / 
CompuServe: 75760,1232       | ferrous but non-magnetic!" |
Newsgroups: seattle.general