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Date:         Fri, 18 Dec 1992 10:49:39 MST
From:         Dave Weinstein <dweinste%server@CARL.ORG>
Subject:      Re: Gay Bashing
              Dec 18, 92 12:02 am

Michael Kline gives an example of posters which were "in Portland", as
an example of, I suppose, Christian Bashing by Gays. Even were this to
be substantiated, I fail to see how it would in any way justify or
mitigate Gay Bashing by self-proclaimed Christians.

I've taken the liberty of extracting some information from the files I
saved during the discussions of the OCA prior to the election to put
things in a bit more perspective. And, as an aside, the Oregon Citizens
Alliance is the Oregon Chapter of Pat Robertson's Christian Coalition.

An example of the fruits of the OCA when an earlier (local) ammendment
of theirs passed:

One of the OCA's discriminatory measures passed in the
primary election in Springfield, Oregon.

Within days of the Springfield Ordinance's passage, the OCA
moved to investigate and censor the holdings in the
Springfield public library.

From Dave Butler, on talk.religion.misc:

As to the "Shoot the fish" poster you mentioned, that truly is an interesting
case.  You see I live in Portland and had never seen or heard of such posters.
Your author Mueller made it sound that this quite vicious threat was widely
known and posted throughout the city, and causing widespread fear.  The only
claims on the matter is from the OCA itself.  The OCA claims to have found
three or four such posters on Hawthorne Blvd one morning, and then removed
these unsigned and unclaimed posters (By the way, I find it both interesting
that said posters should be found on Hawthorne Blvd, where it is not likely to
be seen by any conservative Christian who would support measure 9, and also
that the OCA just happened to be on that street that morning so that they
could gather all the poster up).  The OCA then published the alleged posters
in their newsletters, and have reproduced said poster for for much wider
distribution among their supporters.  As to how legitimate these 3 or 4
posters are, is up for debate; they have been disavowed and condemned by all
homosexual groups in Portland.  In fact no group has claimed them at all.
Further, they have also been given no credibility by the press or even by
Christian organizations and community (eg: The Ecumenical Ministries of
Oregon).  In fact the only ones who are giving any credibility to the
posters, are the OCA people.

Now admittedly there is the possibility that the poster was written by a very
radical and reactionary gay.  On the other hand, there is no evidence at all
as to which group actually produced the posters, so it could also have been
written by a more dishonest and intolerant measure 9 supporter, or even
someone within the OCA itself, as the OCA does indeed contain some violent
members.  To back up that claim I will note the case of a Mr Scott Lively, who
physically assaulted a lesbian photographer who was invited to an OCA event,
by the OCA.  The OCA presented its usual inflammatory and bigoted propaganda
at the event, and the photographer got vocal in return.  Mr Lively then
ejected the photographer, which in itself was OK, but he got rather
enthusiastic and also beat up the photographer on the way out, and he did it
in front of witnesses.  Mr Lively has now been charged and convicted of
beating that photographer, and it is significant to point it out as he is
still a member in good standing of the OCA.  By the way, while the OCA
officially condemns violence the OCA has been very supportive of Mr Lively.
This is significant because, while we cannot hold the OCA responsible for the
acts of all its members, we can get some idea of the actual philosophy of the
OCA, by how it reacts to violence propagated by its members.  In this case,
instead of terminating their connection with Mr Lively, the OCA paid for his
defense, and now that he has been convicted, they are paying for an appeal on
his behalf.  In fact, the OCA, in spite of the witnesses present, claims that
there was no violence at all done to anyone that night.  So it would appear
that while the OCA condemn violence, they do not consider assault against gays
to be actual violence.

I got all this information from KINK Radio news and the church's in the area
who are trying to stop the violence (eg: the Ecumenical Ministries of Oregon).

End of quote from Mr. Butler.

Finally, while attacks on both gays and other minority groups have been
skyrocketing in the wake of the attempted legislation in Oregon and the
legislation in Colorado, there are no reports of attacks on Christians.
So if we compare your questionable posters against murders, assaults,
and bomb threats, I don't think that the scales tip the way you seem
to want them to.

--Dave

Disclaimer: Again, this is personal correspondence. It isn't work related,
            and shouldn't be construed in any way shape or form as coming
            from or representing my employer. Sad we have to use these
            disclaimers, isn't it.

--
Dave Weinstein
dweinste@carl.org
CARL Systems, Inc. - Systems that Inform
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