HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dhl@mrdog.msl.com (Donald H. Locker)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware
Subject: clock loses time while powered down
Date: 28 Sep 92 20:52:19 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Chelsea MSL, Inc., Chelsea, MI

Whenever I power my 3/160, I need to reset the date.
The boot-up message says something like:
 `` Clock lost xxxx hours; check and reset the date''

I have replaced the battery on the CPU board; now I think I need to
tell the chip to keep running.  (I recall doing this on a 3/150, but I
don't have manuals :( )

Anyone know how?  Respond via email; I will summarise.  TIA.
-- 
Donald.                      Speaking only for myself.

ALL NEW .sig lite - 28% fewer chars, reduced meaning!!
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware
From: sater@cs.vu.nl (Hans van Staveren)
Subject: Sparcstation floating point hardware/emulation
Organization: Fac. Wiskunde & Informatica, VU, Amsterdam
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 15:38:29 GMT

To complete the port of Amoeba to the Sparcstation line of processors
we need to figure out how the floating point works. Rumour has it that
after a trap you need to read out the coprocessor queue, and that before
you can restart the process you need to interpret all instructions out
of the queue.

Is this true? If so, could someone point me to documentation describing
what to do exactly? Even better, is there already code available that does
this? The IEEE floating point code itself is not the issue, I can lay my
hands on an implementation of that easily enough, but the fiddling around
with hardware and instruction decoding does not sound like a great way to
spend weeks of programming.

A pretty knowledgeable guy that worked with us for some time, Phil Shafer,
suggested that it might be possible to call the instructions saved as a
subroutine before proceeding with the process. This sounds like such a
reasonable idea, yet in the SunOS kernel there is a fpu_simulator.o
and a iu_simulator.o file that were probably not written for the hack value.

	Hans van Staveren
	Vrije Universiteit
	Amsterdam, Holland
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware
From: mat@unh.edu (Mike Thomas)
Subject: INFORMATION!!!!! SunOS 4.1.1 patches for Disks > 1 gig!!!
Organization: /home/mat/.organization
Distribution: comp
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 01:32:28 GMT


I have found out that SunOS 4.1.1 (which I'm told is the last version
of the OS for Sun 3's) has a NASTY bug in it, where it won't operate
with disks greater than about 1.2 gigs.  Sun did repair this but from
what I'm told its kinda hard to get them to give out the fix...  If
ANYONE out there has this patch could you please contact me as I'm
dead in the water with my only disk being a 1.7 gig drive...

Thanks in advance,
Mike
--
(***********************************************************************)
(*   Michael A Thomas Jr               Systems Programmer              *)
(*   InterOperabilty Lab               Internet: mat@unh.edu           *)
(*   University of New Hampshire       SERB Room 332 Durham NH 03824   *)
(***********************************************************************)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware
From: sacks@netmgr.mot.com (Dennis Sacks)
Subject: Location of Current Format.dat
Keywords: format.dat disk information
Reply-To: sacks@netmgr.mot.com
Organization: Motorola New Enterprises
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 18:36:52 GMT

Where is the location of the latest format.dat file? I am looking for
an entry for a Micropolis 1548-15.

Thanks
From: david@jake.EEAP.CWRU.Edu (David Nerenberg)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware
Subject: SMD Tape drive installation questions
Date: 3 Oct 1992 19:30:13 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: jake.eeap.cwru.edu

I need some help installing this tape drive.  It is a reel-to-reel type,
(looks like a 9-track) made by CDC 

ID:  BY3A6-A 
Series:  16  
Part#  77015921.  

On the back, it has what appears to be 2 SMD channels.  

Now that you know what it is, how do I use it?  What type of controller
was able to access this device?

					I appreciate any assistance....
					
							-Dave


-- 
david@elwood.eeap.cwru.edu             David Nerenberg
73107,177 CompuServe                   Electrical Engineering & Applied Physics
NY:  H-516-751-6344                    Case Western Reserve University
     W-516-751-8111                    W-216-368-2982   H-216-754-2085
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware
From: henrik@stat.tamu.edu (Henrik Schmiediche)
Subject: Capturing a Sparc IPX monitor image on vido tape
Organization: Department of Statistics, TAMU
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 17:40:38 GMT

      Hi,
I'm sorry if this is a faq which is written up somewhere. If it is,
just point to where I can find it. Also, if there exist some more
appropriate newsgroup, please let me know.

I desire to capture a video image directly from a Sparc IPX machine
with a color monitor. What hardware is needed to do this? Does such
hardware exist and if it does where can I find it? One solution is
obviously to just videotape the monitor, but are there any devices to
do this directly off of the monitor?

Any help/suggestions/pointers would be greatly appreciated. Posted
replies and/or email are acceptable.

   - Henrik

--
Henrik Schmiediche, Dept. of Statistics, Texas A&M, College Station, TX 77843
E-mail: henrik@stat.tamu.edu  |  Tel: (409) 845-9447   |  Fax: (409) 845-3144
From: limes@ouroborous.eng.sun.com (Greg Limes)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware
Subject: Re: UNIX layout for Type 5 available! (was Re: keymap table for Type5...)
Date: 1 Oct 92 19:07:39
Organization: Sun Microsystems Computer Corporation
	<1992Sep20.102625.2762@ukw.uucp>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ouroborous
In-reply-to: lupe@ukw.uucp's message of 20 Sep 92 10:26:25 GMT

In article <1992Sep20.102625.2762@ukw.uucp> lupe@ukw.uucp (Lupe Christoph) writes:
|   A few additions from a user of the US type-5 keyboard. (For a few minutes,
|   before I decided to go and seek for a type-4 keyboard ;-)

And a couple of comments from a user of a "UNIX" type-5 keyboard.

|   guy@Auspex.COM (Guy Harris) writes:
|
|   >	There is a "UNIX" layout model of the Type 5; I've not seen it,
|   >	but a person at Sun indicates that it's not just a keycap set
|   >	plus layout setting for the DIP switches, but is mechanically
|   >	different and probably has a different
|   >	switch-matrix-to-keystation-code mapping in the keyboard's
|   >	microprocessor.
|
|   One of the diffs is probably the LED in the CAPS LOCK KEY. On the US
|   layout, this key is were it is on PC keyboards.

The UNIX layout moves Control back up to the left of "A", and CAPSLOCK
down to the same row as spacebar. The LED in the CapsLock key is now
completely hidden by your left hand, instead of being partially hidden
by your left pinkie. The LED in the Compose key is hidden under your
right palm on both keyboards.

Other specific changes: the "ESC" key on the US keyboard in in the
same row as the top function keys; the UNIX keyboard moves it down to
the left end of the number row. The tilde/backtick key on the US
keyboard is at the left end of the number row; the UNIX keyboard moves
it to the far right end of the number row. The BACKSPACe key on on the
US keyboard is at the far end of the number row, and is two keys wide;
the UNIX keyboard moves it down one row, and narrows it to 1.5 keys
wide. The US keyboard has a key labeled "Enter"; the UNIX keyboard
labels it "Return"

Also note that, while many PC keyboards have a CONTROL key for each
hand on the spacebar row, the US keyboard has one only on the left
end. Using it with any key on the left half of the keyboard may be
awkward for touch typists.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware
From: adrie@ica.philips.nl (Adrie Koolen)
Subject: Re: Sony CDU541 CDROM drive on a Sparc
Organization: Philips Consumer Electronics, Eindhoven, The Netherlands
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 08:24:51 GMT

In article <1992Oct1.040002.18402@kdseng.UUCP> dave@kdseng.UUCP (Dave Berry) writes:
>I hope this isn't a FAQ...... but
>
>we're trying to use a Sony internal SCSI drive on a sparc 
>running 4.1.1.  We can play music with the cdplayer routine
>and can even get the system to load munix with the "b cdrom"
>command at the boot prompt, but when one tries to mount a cd
>with a "mount -rt hsfs /dev/sr0 /cdrom " the system hits the
>drive and then blows up with the following stuff:
>
>Sep 30 16:13:06 eraserhead vmunix: esp0:        data transfer overrun
 [Stuff deleted]
>etc, etc, etc ..........................

Just a wild guess. I haven't used CDROMs on a SparcStation.

It looks to me that the CDROM reads 2048 byte blocks while the SparcStation
is expecting 512 byte blocks. If so, the SparcStation gets much more data
than it asked for, resulting in a data overrun.

As you could read munix, the CDROM obviously can do it right. I have no idea
what could cause the 541 to switch block sizes.

I hope that you can do something with this info.

Adrie Koolen (adrie@ica.philips.nl)
Philips Consumer Electronics, Eindhoven, the Netherlands
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware
From: jik@athena.mit.edu (Jonathan I. Kamens)
Subject: Serial ports and hardware flow control on SPARCstations
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 20:36:07 GMT

I've got two new SPARCstations sitting on my desks, an IPX and a
SPARCstation 2.  I'm trying to get a SupraFAXmodem V.32bis to work
with the terminal A port on the back of each (preferably the
SPARCstation 2), with tip.  I want to use hardware flow control.

The instructions in the "Sun System & Network Manager's Guide," page
156, for making ttya work with a modem say to issue these commands as
root and then reboot:

	eeprom ttya-ignore-cd=false
	eeprom ttya-rts-dtr-off=true

They also say to create the character special devices /dev/cua1 and
/dev/cua2, using major device 12 and minor 128.

I was a little suspicious of the eeprom modifications they wanted me
to do, so I tried things both with and without them.

My /etc/remote entry for the modem reads as follows:

supra|tip0:el=^D^U^C^S^Q^O@:at=hayes:ie=#$%:oe=^D:br#38400:hf:nt:tc=dialers:

I've got the modem to do RTS/CTS.  When I do "tip supra", the
characters that I type make it to the modem, and it does things in
response to them, but no data from the modem makes it back to me
(e.g., if I type "at", I don't see the "OK", even though I know the
modem is responding -- I know because when I type "atds", the modem
stars dialing).

If I remove the ":hf:nt" and tell the modem to do XON/XOFF flow
control, it works fine.  So it seems that the problem is localized to
using hardware flow control.

On the IPX, I'm using a 9-pin to 25-pin cord that claims to be a
"high-speed modem cable," so presumably it supports hardware flow
control.  On the SPARCstation 2, I'm using a radio shack DB25 to DB25
cord, with a mail-to-mail gender changer on one end.  I don't think
the cords are at fault (although I'm willing to be told otherwise).

I don't have a full SunOS manual set yet, so I can't look this problem
up there, although I suspect that it covers the serial lines and how
to use them in more detail than the "Desktop SPARC" manuals I have.

So, can anyone offer me advice as to how I can get the hardware flow
control to work properly?

Thanks for your time,

-- 
Jonathan Kamens                                         jik@MIT.Edu
MIT Information Systems/Athena              Moderator, news.answers
    (Send correspondence related to the news.answers newsgroup
        {and ONLY correspondence related to the newsgroup}
                 to news-answers-request@MIT.Edu.)
Xref: sparky comp.sys.sun.hardware:4683 comp.sys.sun.misc:4433
From: mitch@cirrus.com (Mitch Wright)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware,comp.sys.sun.misc
Subject: Re: Solaris 2.0 to support Sun 386i???
Date: 29 Sep 92 07:20:54 GMT
Followup-To: poster
Distribution: na
Organization: Cirrus Logic Inc.

/* wargopl@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Peter L. Wargo) writes: */

>Bob.Smith@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Bob Smith) writes:

Peter> I've a coupla questions about the 386i as I'm in need of a PC box to
Peter> run Unix (to port sparc-based Sun Fortran & C software to) and I don't
Peter> wanna take a chance on PC clones and after maket Unixes.
Peter> First, does Sun intend to specifically (or perhaps generically) support
Peter> the 386i?
Bob> Fat Chance.  Sun gave up on the 386i a while back.  I think 4.0.3 was
Bob> the last OS revision offered for it.

Not "Fat Chance".... the answer is no.  Though they will (do) have Solaris
out for the 386 platform.  The last release for the 386i was 4.0.2.

Peter> Next, what are the latest versions of the Sun compilers to run on the
Peter> 386i?
Bob> You could compile gcc to run on it.... :-)
Bob> (Beats what came with 4.0.3...)

Yes, gcc works fine.  And yes, it is much better that the 4.0.2 compiler.
Heck, it's better than the 4.1.3 compiler.  And in some cases, better
than Sun's unbundled compiler.

Peter> Finally, could anyone offer their experiences with the 386i, especially
Peter> in regard to software robustness and to/from disk transfer rates?  
Peter> Experiences with hardware epansion ease/problems would also be welcomed.

Based on the questions you ask, I doubt that the 386i is what you'll want.
It's not a terrible machine... great in it's day, but considering the
prices of some *really* good hardware, I'd pass.  I got a 386i a few years
back and it has served me well, but once Sun's new Tsunami comes out...

Peter> I realize I'm stretching it here, as the 386i has fallen from favor, but
Peter> I can hardly resist some of the used prices that I've seen recently.
Bob> Save yourself, Bob.  If you want a decent platform to play with, get a
Bob> Sun3. They can usually be found cheaply (especially the 3/50, and 3/60),
Bob> they run SunOS 4.1.1, and there are even commercial applications still
Bob> avaialble for them.  I run a 12M 3/50, with 400 or some-odd megs of
Bob> disk, and I have X11R5, and a bunch of other goodiies running on it.

I think I'd take a 386i before a 3/50.  A 3/60... yeah, maybe I'd do that
instead.  Anyway, with the prices of used Sun 4's like the SLC, I would
certainly go that route if you can.

   ~mitch
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware
From: hcfu@csie.nctu.edu.tw ()
Subject: Help wanted: need a ibm RS/6000 x-terminal system RAM
Organization: Dep. Computer Science & Engin. of Chiao Tung U., Taiwan, ROC
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 02:05:39 GMT


I must apologize to you the sun station netter.  Since I can not find 
the news group for RS/6000, and I thought a sun station user may also
a RS/6000 user. 

I am a RS/6000 user. I have an IBM rs/6000 color x-terminal, and need to
upgrade its systme Ram.  I asked local IBM rep for price quota, they reply:

.......
Type |  Feature |  description                 | Purchase   | Disc. price|
7010 |  4005    |  PS/2 1MB memory expansion   | NT$ 26554  | NT$ 16436
.......

1 us$ = 25 NT$, thus 1MB Ram from ibm will cost US$658. 
Cann't afford such expensive RAM.

As they indicate it seems this RAM is compabilitable with PS/2 RAM.
I am asking any one of you Nnews netter may give suggestions that which
of the PS/2 model's RAM is compatible with the ibm x-terminal ram.

Your helpful suggestion is greatly appreciated, thanx in advance.

pls reply to hcfu@lena.nctu.edu.tw.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware
From: djones@lightning.mcrcim.mcgill.edu (David Jones)
Subject: SPARC: 64-bit integers?
Organization: McGill Research Centre for Intelligent Machines
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 92 04:26:43 GMT

Does the SPARC-10 CPU support 64-bit integers in a single hardware register?
If not, will the next SPARC rev?

Gcc seems to implement 64-bit ints as a pair of registers.

(Please reply directly to djones@lightning.mcrcim.mcgill.edu)

thanks,
  dj

-------------------------
long long xor(a,b)
long long a, b;
{
   return a^b;
}
-------------------------
gcc2_compiled.:
.text
	.align 4
	.global _xor
	.proc	05
_xor:
	xor %o0,%o2,%o0
	xor %o1,%o3,%o1
	retl
	sub %sp,-0,%sp		% <-- Is this really necessary???

Xref: sparky comp.sys.sun.hardware:4711 comp.periphs.scsi:4768
From: mat@unh.edu (Mike Thomas)
Subject: WANTED: PATCH to fix SunOS 4.1.1 > 1gig Disk Problem
Organization: /home/mat/.organization
Distribution: comp
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 17:11:56 GMT


I have a Maxtor Panther 1.7 gig drive and I have a Sun 3/280 running
SunOS 4.1.1.  I need the PATCH that fixes the OS problem of disks
greater than (about) 1gig.  So far everyone that has replied to my
previous message has only the patch for Sun4's unfortunately!!  (My
thanks go out for their help) Right now my disk is operating fine,
but I'm only using (about) 700meg.

I'm will to pay to get the patch or pay to have some group (maybe
in sun) impliment the fix...

Thanks in advance,
Mike Thomas
--
(***********************************************************************)
(*   Michael A Thomas Jr               Systems Programmer              *)
(*   InterOperabilty Lab               Internet: mat@unh.edu           *)
(*   University of New Hampshire       SERB Room 332 Durham NH 03824   *)
(***********************************************************************)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware
From: henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: SUN Processors Speeds Question???
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 04:43:24 GMT
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology

In article <1992Sep28.022435.29003@ee.ubc.ca> carltonj@ee.ubc.ca (carlton joseph) writes:
>   1) Clock speed of the processors. (like 60030 = 8Mhz in SUN 3/260)
>   2) Number of clock cycles per instruction.
>   3) Do all models with the same number (ie SPARC II) have the same
>      processor in them (ie same clock speeds).
>
> The machine I am really curious about is the SUN 3/260 (old).

The 3/260 and 3/280 (which differ only in packaging) have, if I recall
correctly, a 25MHz 68020 CPU and a 20MHz 68881 FPU.

Clock cycles per instruction was highly variable; these were CISC processors
which often took many clocks per instruction, but they were also modern
enough to do a lot of overlapped execution.  The timing charts in a 68020
manual are *very* complex.  It's almost impossible to give any sort of
meaningful answer to this question.

The mapping between model number and speed is complex and variable.  For
example, I think all systems using the original 68020 CPU board (I think
the 3/75, 3/140, 3/160, and 3/180) had a 16.67MHz CPU, but the FPU speed
started out at 12(?)MHz until full-speed FPUs were available.  Analogous
upgrades in mid-production-run may well have occurred in more recent
models too.
-- 
There is nothing wrong with making      | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
mistakes, but... make *new* ones. -D.Sim|  henry@zoo.toronto.edu  utzoo!henry
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware
From: mcorley@hrssys.engr.latech.edu (Mel Corley)
Subject: IPC video problems
Keywords: IPC, video, frame_buffer
Organization: Louisiana Tech University
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 18:13:54 GMT

We have 4 IPC's purchased during mid-1991 which have developed
degenerative video horizontal video sync problems.  We understand
this is a known problem caused by defective clock oscillators on
the frame buffer card.  Sure enough, when you shoot the oscillators
with a little chip coolant, things straighten up nicely.  We 
understand that customers on maintenance contract get these boards
replaced upon reporting the trouble, but, alas, like many universities
we have no maintenance contract on workstations.  My question is,
has anyone in a similar condition negotiated a better deal with
SUN than the $300+ to swap an IPC frame buffer card having this
problem.  (BTW, Reeves-Hoffman, the maker of the defective clock
oscillators, wants over $300 for replacement components!)

Any suggestions or experiences would be appreciated.  It just burns
me up to have to pay full repair price when there is a known defect.
=========================================================================
Melvin R. Corley, Ph.D.               Phone:     (318) 257-2859
Professor of Mechanical Engineering   Fax:       (318) 257-2562
Louisiana Tech University             Internet:  mcorley@engr.latech.edu
Box 10348                             BITNET:    MCORLEY@LATECH
Ruston, LA  71272-0046
=========================================================================

Xref: sparky comp.sys.sun.hardware:4667 comp.sys.sun.misc:4423
From: wargopl@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Peter L. Wargo)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware,comp.sys.sun.misc
Subject: Re: Solaris 2.0 to support Sun 386i???
Date: 28 Sep 92 18:49:15 GMT
Organization: Clarkson University

Bob.Smith@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Bob Smith) writes:

>Hello,

>I've a coupla questions about the 386i as I'm in need of a PC box to
>run Unix (to port sparc-based Sun Fortran & C software to) and I don't
>wanna take a chance on PC clones and after maket Unixes.

>First, does Sun intend to specifically (or perhaps generically) support
>the 386i?

Fat Chance.  Sun gave up on the 386i a while back.  I think 4.0.3 was
the last OS revision offered for it.

>Next, what are the latest versions of the Sun compilers to run on the
>386i?

You could compile gcc to run on it.... :-)
(Beats what came with 4.0.3...)

>Finally, could anyone offer their experiences with the 386i, especially
>in regard to software robustness and to/from disk transfer rates?  
>Experiences with hardware epansion ease/problems would also be welcomed.

Well, a freind of mine (who works for a major workstation software
company rhyming with grief) called it  [the Sun 386i] "The worst
bastardization to come out of Sun..."

>I realize I'm stretching it here, as the 386i has fallen from favor, but
>I can hardly resist some of the used prices that I've seen recently.

Save yourself, Bob.  If you want a decent platform to play with, get a
Sun3. They can usually be found cheaply (especially the 3/50, and 3/60),
they run SunOS 4.1.1, and there are even commercial applications still
avaialble for them.  I run a 12M 3/50, with 400 or some-odd megs of
disk, and I have X11R5, and a bunch of other goodiies running on it.

(Even a PC emulator!)

"These opinions are mine, of course..."

--
Peter L. Wargo        | wargopl@sun.soe.clarkson.edu | "In other words...
Documentation         |                              |  R.T.F.M..."
Enable Software, Inc. | GEnie mail: PSYCLOPS         |
From: engp1186@nuscc.nus.sg (Won-Soon Lau)
Subject: Format data for Quantum ProDrive 425i needed
Keywords:  format, quantum
Organization: National University of Singapore
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 12:01:28 GMT

Can someone please send me the format.dat for the Quantum ProDrive 425i?
Thank you.

P.S.  I can't find it in the format.dat FAQ.

Won-Soon Lau
-- 
VLSI DESIGN & CAD LABORATORY          \  Internet: engp1186@nuscc.nus.sg
Dept of Electrical Engineering         \  Bitnet:  ENGP2065@NUSVM.bitnet      
National University of Singapore        \  Phone:  (+65) 772 6319       
10, Kent Ridge Crescent. Singapore 0511. \______________________________
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware,comp.sys.sun.misc
From: ckd@eff.org (Christopher Davis)
Subject: Re: Solaris 2.0 to support Sun 386i???
Followup-To: comp.sys.sun.hardware,comp.sys.sun.misc
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation Tech Central
	<1992Sep29.111832.27271@cas.org>
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 19:40:39 GMT

Larry> == Larry W. Virden <lwv26@cas.org> 
Brown> == brown@ftms.UUCP (Vidiot) writes:

 Brown> As I understand it, Solaris 2.0 will not operate on the 386i.
 Brown> It will only operate on RISC (SPARC) computers.

 Larry> I am confused.  Sunsoft has been advertising in magazines for a
 Larry> year that Solaris is or is going to be running on an Intel
 Larry> platform.  Now I am told above that it will only operate on
 Larry> SPARC platform.  I know that someone here on the net has dropped
 Larry> the ball on getting Sun's press releases posted to the net, but
 Larry> surely someone can share the press release where Sun has dropped
 Larry> their plans on supporting Intel!

It will run on (some) Intel machines.  It will not run on the Sun 386i.
--
Christopher K. Davis      |       NET.INSIGHTS INTO ARTISTIC CRITICISM:
<ckd@eff.org>   EFF #14   | ``[Y]ou don't cure bad art by locking it all up
System Administrator, EFF | in one museum, you cure it by throwing tomatoes
+1 617 864 0665  [CKD1]   | at bad artists.'' --Barry Shein <bzs@world.std.com>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware,comp.sys.sun.misc