HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
X-Envelope-to: ethology@finhutc.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"ethology@finhutc"
X-VMS-Cc: SAARIKKO
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ethology
Date:         Thu, 3 Sep 1992 19:33:00 EET
From:         "Jarmo Saarikko at U Helsinki" <SAARIKKO@FINUHA.BITNET>
Subject:      UNIVERSITY OF WASHINGTON ORDERED TO RELEASE UNFUNDED PROTOCOL

Message forwarded by Jarmo Saarikko

**************************************************************
>Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 09:03:22 EDT
>From: APASDEAB@GWUVM.BITNET
>Subject: Animal Research Information Board
>Sender: APA's Animal Research Information Board List <APAARIB@GWUVM.BITNET>
>Reply-to: APA's Animal Research Information Board List <APAARIB@GWUVM.BITNET>

**************************************************************
               American Psychological Association

                ANIMAL RESEARCH INFORMATION BOARD

                       September 31, 1992
**************************************************************

  UNIVERSITY OF WASHINGTON ORDERED TO RELEASE UNFUNDED PROTOCOL

     In a summary judgement, King County Superior Court Judge
Robert H. Alsdorf has ordered the Univ. of Washington to release a
copy of an UNFUNDED grant proposal to the Progressive Animal
Welfare Society (PAWS).  Budget figures, personal information and
calculations will be exempt from release.  In his opinion, Alsdorf
noted that PAWS waived any claim to this and other similar trade
secrets or confidential data.  PAWS, the local animal rights group
which has been actively campaigning against the grant, used the
state's public disclosure law as a basis for their request.

     Univ. of Washington officials are currently reviewing
Alsdorf's decision to determine action regarding an appeal.
University spokeswomen Kathleen Klein said, "We believe that
releasing unfunded grant proposals would violate the investigator's
right to privacy; produce public loss by disclosing valuable
research formulas, designs and data; and violate the First
Amendment."

     The grant was requested by Gene P. Sackett, Ph.D., University
professor of psychology, member of the Regional Primate Center and
associate director of the Child Development and Mental Retardation
Center.  Sackett's proposal was designed to study self-injurious
behavior -- a serious problem that occurs in thousands of severely
retarded, autistic and psychiatrically disturbed individuals.  The
proposed study would have used 21 rhesus monkeys, 13 in the
experimental group and eight in the control group.  The
University's animal care and use committee approved Sackett's
protocol in November of 1990.  The National Institutes of Health,
however, denied the grant request in June 1991.

FROM: The National Association for Biomedical Research (NABR)

                              * * *

               American Psychological Association
                       Science Directorate
                        750 First St. NE
                    Washington, DC 20002-4242
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
From: jrussell@unlinfo.unl.edu (john russell)
Subject: Re: The Bible and Homophobia
Organization: University of Nebraska - Lincoln
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 13:45:21 GMT

Wolfgang Hutter <HUTTER@DULRUU51.BITNET> writes:

>In a message of Fri, 28 Aug 1992 15:38:14 GMT
>Received on Fri, 28 Aug 92 18:19 N
>john russell <jrussell@UNLINFO.UNL.EDU> wrote:

>>I would
>>hate to think that your assumptions about God's will are based on your
>>human and imperfect interpretations of the version of the Bible you
>>happen to own.

>If we want to make any statements at all about God's will - everyone who
>cares to do His will has to - we have to base this on some sources. If
>you don't like the Bible as your (my) foundation, what would you prefer?
>Personal revelation? (see above...) I think that basing our decisions on
>the Bible is the most objective choice we can take.

>Wolfgang <><

My point was not that THE Bible was incorrect but that there are MANY
Bibles. Just look in any large bookstore -- the Bible is available in
many different versions. And where did these versions originate? Is
the King James version accurate? Gutenberg's? Do we have to go back to
Latin sources? Greek? Hebrew? How many times has the Bible been
translated and changed by men (and maybe a few women) along the way?

(Note: this is not an entirely rhetorical question. If anyone has a 
BRIEF answer or comment, I'd like to hear it.)

And, of course, the Biblical Quiz already posted brings up OTHER
concerns about the Bible which I didn't even get to.

Your responses are encouraged. What are _you_ reading?

jr

Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Original_To:  BITNET%"CHRISTIA@ASUACAD.BITNET"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 25 Aug 1992 14:23:00 EST
From:         WKJ <JAMES@XAVIER.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Anti-Catholicism: "Saul, Saul, why ..."

B.T.,

Here's what I want YOU to do: try the spirits by the SPIRIT ( the Word
of God is the Sword of the Spirit ). Believe not EVERY spirit. YOU see
whether they are of God or not. Every spirit that confesses that Jesus
Christ is come in the flesh is of God. Every spirit that confesses not or
denies that God was manifest in the flesh, seen of angels, preached to
the world, believed on among Gentiles, received up to glory, etc.; that is
the spirit of " anti-christ ", whose mystery also already is at work.

You have a great responsibility. Watch carefully. Be soberminded. Discernment
is like common sense in the sense that it is not so common. God divide to
you these gifts severally as He wills...while we stand in prayer with you.

God had a good reason for Loving you and dying for you...(it is us people who
have difficulty figuring it out.)


WKJ
Username:Show thyself approved unto God
Password:Rightly dividing the Word of Truth
From: jrussell@unlinfo.unl.edu (john russell)
Subject: Feminism  (and paganism)
Organization: University of Nebraska - Lincoln
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 15:13:27 GMT

Kerry,

Thanks for the rational discussion of radical feminism. After the
GOP convention it's hard to tell what anyone means anymore. You're
talking about Andrea Dworkin, not Hillary Clinton. Yes, I agree
with you that narrow-minded extremism in any form can be very
dangerous both to those who practice it and to those who they 
perceive to be their enemies. Fortunately, the majority of the
population is either too rational or too apathetic to become
violently factionalist. 

On the other hand, (and again, as you pointed out), there is a
danger in lumping together those who may have peripherally the 
same goals with such a group. Wanting to be free of sexist
discrimination and persecution is certainly a worthy cause; I
see many posts on this lists advocating the abandonment on 
cruelty and hatred. However, using cruelty and hatred to achieve
the freedom from such persecution is only self-defeating.

I think you've actually covered my side of the story pretty well,
except that I'm still not convinced that the Iowa bill is not
a "liberal feminist" agenda rather than a radical one. Once again,
can anyone post me a copy of the text?


On a new topic:

Regarding witchcraft and the like: My experience with friends who
have been pagans, Wiccans, and the like has taught me that there is
almost as much division in those areas as there is in the Christian
church. There are those who are attracted to these ideologies as a
rebellion against something (parents, society, the patriarchy,
whatever) and these tend to be the extremists. There are those who
attach themselves to the periphery in order to appear fashionably
non-conformist, and these tend to drift away when it's no longer
"hip" to be a part of that group. There is also a large number,
however, who hold deep and heartfelt beliefs which they feel as 
strongly about as most of you feel about Christianity.

I should add once again that there are many belief systems involved
here, contrary to what many would have you think. There are 
pantheists and polytheists, Earth- and nature-worshippers (including
some who percieve the Earth as a female deity, Gaia), and those who
don't worship anything but simply try to "live in harmony with nature"
as the literature goes. Unfortunately it is the radical fringe that
gets all the publicity, all of which is bad (this includes the
ever-popular Satanists, who, as I said, are reacting against whatever
they perceive to be opporessing them). 

Yes, I know what the Bible says about worshipping idols, etc. This is
merely an informational blurb. No flames, please! but any rational
discourse is welcomed.

jr
jrussell@unlinfo.unl.edu

Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 31 Aug 1992 10:16:16 CDT
From:         Jesse Carnes <NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: JESUS IS ABOUT TO COME BACK

Dear Kerry and all ;

What if the Second Parousia has ALREADY occurred?
Any takers for the "Preterist" View of the Second Advent of our Lord Jesus?
What if the whole book of Revelation is finished history a la A.D. 70at
Jerusalem?
This is notwithstanding an OBVIOUS last parousia at the end of this Church Age.



Jesse Carnes
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 4 Sep 1992 08:23:13 CDT
From:         Jesse Carnes <NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Matthew 24
              3 Sep 1992 18:36:00 CDT from <BKCOBB@LIFE.UAMS.EDU>

Dear Brian ;

Genea is translated either race, nation, or generation.
Greek, like English iscontextual by nature.
Example, Jesus refers to Herod as a "fox" and the Greek word is FOX.
The context, however, implies another connotative use of the word.

Also, Genea is Generation in Matt 24, by the context.
The whole race was not CORRUPT, nor the RACE.
But, Jesus had just earlier declared that THAT generation would be imputed
with ALL of the guilt of the murders of people from Abel to Zechariah.
Further, Jesus was pointing out that THAT specific living group
was especially evil. He goes on to tell the disciples that THAT generation
would live to see thhe Second Parousia.
Whatever Jesus meant, it was RELAVENT to His HEARERS firstly.
If it was only a warning of something to occur 20-plus centuries in their
future, Jesus' words have NO inmpact for THEM and are SUPERFLUOUS.




Jesse Carnes
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 27 Aug 1992 10:40:11 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Randall Terry update

To those interested:

Randall Terry reported this morning to a Houston jail to begin a
6-month term.  He was convicted of violating an injuction by
praying within 50 feet of an abortion clinic.

Love INC,
         ---Kerry
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 31 Aug 1992 23:06:41 EDT
From:         Bernice Tennant <U1A9A@WVNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: homosexuality

Tim,

    I am not Kerry but listen.  We can love you and still deny that you are
right in your  relationship with your boyfriend.  It isn't always easy to
say what you feel in your soul when you are not going to make people happy
with you.  You have already stated that you have not studied the bible that
much.  Why don't you try to give it more study time and prayer.  Jesus
showed just how loving and forgiving that he can be when he was among us, but
he also told the truth.  In following him, there is alot we must suffer for.
We must love him more than anything.  More than making friends, more than
our fear of peer pressure, more than our money, more than our mothers and
fathers and sisters and brothers.  More than our pleasure, more than our pride,
more than anything.  No other Gods.  We must know that God the father, God the
son, and God the Holy Ghost are one God.  We must trust God's inspired word to
lead us on until Christ comes to rescue us.  And rescue us he will.  We will be
tired from the battle.  Christ told us it would be a battle.  He did not come
to bring us peace.  He came to bring      a sword.  He told us to prepare for
battle.  We cannot proclaim that which he has told us and be timid.  It is
time for Christians to become bold and put on the armour of Christ.  If we will
only continue and obey him and not fall, then we have heaven as our reward.

    THe bottom line is:  you cannot continue with your boyfriend and please
God.  God hates homosexual sin.   Let Jesus help you to know the way.   He has
told you, "Ask and you shall receive".  He can turn you away from your sins
and show you a better way.  You only need to seek him and repent and ask him
to take the burden from you.

     We all have burdens to give him.  Mine was alcohol and lust and pride and
a foul mouth and the list goes on and on.  I still struggle with sin.  But I
have found out that Jesus is still with me.  He still shows me when I think of
doing the wrong thing.  I hear a voice telling me a certain thought or desire
is wrong.  I still sin.  I wish I didn't.  But then if I didn't, I wouldn't
need Jesus.  He gives me the desire to please him though, to become more like
him.  And so, I continue to repent of my sins.  Little by little, we need to
become more and more like him.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
From: anachem@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (mark gilstrap)
Subject: Re: Cold Springs, KY
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 18:38:26 GMT

In article <CHRISTIA%92090114560475@ASUACAD.BITNET> Angela Zimmerman <AMZIMM01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU> writes:
>Item Retrieval Assistant, DADS
>Phone: 588-6757
>
>"The coming of Mary" has been the hot topic around here for the past couple
>days (since it's happening in our state and all, that's not strange!)  :).
>According to the news this morning people saw Mary and they were talking about
>it becoming a shrine for people who had seen her.  If anyone's interested,
>I can type in the interesting stuff from our newspaper from today (and
>from tomorrow's as well, if there's anything in it) about it.

	I would appreciate some more details surrounding the reason
	so many people knew about this 'event'.  

	I heard about this a couple of weeks ago from people in Cinn-
	cinnati (which I understand is close to Cold Springs). They
	were telling me that the local RC church authorities were 
	really trying to downplay the predictions of the apparition.
	
	The reason? ... the apparition was predicted by some New Age
	guru channeler who got his info from the being with whom he
	communicates. Not exactly the sort of connection the RC want
	with Marian apparitions. Why would someone who is characterized
	by Christians to be communicating with demons know in advance
	the date and location of a Marian apparition? What does this
	say about the authenticity of this particular apparition?

	Forgive me for jumping to conclusions, but I think its later
	than we think.

	Fr. Mark
	 
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 3 Sep 1992 21:38:20 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: question
              3 Sep 1992 16:34:05 GMT from <jrussell@UNLINFO.UNL.EDU>

JRussel:

Well, Time cites it as "TV evangelist Pat Robertson, arguing against
the Equal Rights Amendment scheduled for the November ballot in Iowa."
Newsweek's tag is "Televangelist Pat Robertson, who spoke at the
Republican convention, on the proposed equal-rights amendment."
Sounds to me like Newsweek wants to tie it to the RNC, which is
inaccurate.  I would guess that it comes from something he said
on the 700 Club and that whatever preceded gave the evidence for
the things he said.  I can say for a fact that it didn't come from
his June/July newsletter.  (I'm not sure I got the latest one, or if
I did, what I did with it--I have a lot of organizational flaws.)
Wonder why no one ever cites Pat's financial commentary from the
newsletter, by the way.  Maybe because he's so often right?
  My guess is that Time and Newsweek got it from the same place your
sources did--some kind of "watchdog" letter from NOW or NARAL or
Planned Parenthood or People for the American Way.  (This, BTW, is
not unusual, virtually every article Time and Newsweek has ever
written on abortion contains huge chunks of prose lifted from letters
and pamphelts sent out by NARAL and NOW, without attribution.)

Hmmmm.

Love INC,
         --Kerry
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Delivery-Notice:  SMTP MAIL FROM does not correspond to sender.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 3 Sep 1992 14:09:16 EDT
From:         Lon Mendelsohn <LMENDELS@CMS.CC.WAYNE.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Matthew 24

Memo,

In the case of Antiochus Epiphanes, most scholars are of the view that
the desolating sacrilege was that establishment of a pagan altar in
the Temple, and the sacrifice of pigs (unclean animals) on it.  In the
case of the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD, there are several views.
If you are going to accept this event as the fulfillment of Jesus'
words, then I think that most likely thing to have been viewed as a
desolating sacrilege was the bringing of the Roman eagle standard into
the sanctuary of the Temple.

Hope this helps . . .

Shalom,

Lon Mendelsohn
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: On-Line Bible: NASB available?
From: j1w@icf.hrb.com (Doug ('Oscar') Works)
Date: 3 Sep 92 13:54:02 EST
Organization: HRB Systems, Inc.

Dear CHRISTIA,

     I recently FTP'd the On-Line Bible 5.00 from wuarchive.wustl.edu, and
was wondering if anyone out there knows if there is a New American Standard
Version (NASB) module available for it.  I think it's great, although I'm
having some problems getting the mouse to work properly.  Anyone else out
there have any tips?  Thanks!

                                                 In Him,

                                                 Doug
-- 
................................................................................
................................................................................
....    |         "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep,             ....
....  --+--              to gain what he cannot lose."                      ....
....    |                                           - Jim Elliot            ....
....    |                                                                   ....
.......................  Internet: j1w@icf.hrb.com .............................
................................................................................
    J. Douglas Works * HRB Systems, Inc. * State College, PA  16804  USA


Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
From: jrussell@unlinfo.unl.edu (john russell)
Subject: The "Mary" flame-war
Organization: University of Nebraska - Lincoln
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 21:29:58 GMT

Daniel,

Reason and tolerance? On THIS list? Heaven forbid! :-)

Seriously though, nice job of summing up. I can only hope
that others will follow your example and advice.

jr

Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 31 Aug 1992 11:01:36 CST
From:         A16905@ITESO.BITNET
Subject:      Prayer

Ok, Let's vote for our first prayer topic. I can remember theese three:

1.- Abortionists.
2.- Bosnia.
3.- Somalia.

Please send your votes or new topics to:

A16905@ITESO          on BITNET

or

a16905@itesocci.gdl.iteso.mx    on the Internet.

Voting ends Thursday morning. Prayer day : Friday.

Is this ok ?

Shalom,
Memo.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 31 Aug 1992 12:17:12 CDT
Comments:     In-Reply-To: note of Thu,
              27 Aug 1992 02:31:50 EST from Kerry Stephenson
From:         Stuart <K119TO@TAMVM1.BITNET>
Subject:      Values and Popular culture (pt. 2)

From:   Stuart T Oliver
Re: Values and Popular culture
Kerry, we're waiting for part 3.  I and II were excellent. Thanks! :-)





Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 1 Sep 1992 11:24:43 CST
From:         A16905@ITESO.BITNET
Subject:      Prayer voting update

Here is the voting report:

1.- Abortionists       1
2.- Bosnia             1.5          (Zane voted for 2 and 3...1/2 vote for each)
3.- Somalia            2.5
4.- Andrew's victims   0

Voting is closed on Thursday at noon (CST). Prayer day: Friday.

Shalom,
Memo.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 4 Sep 1992 13:09:53 EDT
From:         JEK@NIHCU.BITNET
Subject:      The Martyrs of New Guinea (Sep 2)

     When World War II threatened Papua and New Guinea, it was
obvious that missionaries of European origin were in danger.  There
was talk of leaving. Bishop Philip Strong wrote to his clergy:
     "We must endeavour to carry on our work. God expects this of
us.  The church at home, which sent us out, will surely expect it of
us. The universal church expects it of us. The people whom we serve
expect it of us. We could never hold up our faces again if, for our
own safety, we all forsook Him and fled, when the shadows of the
passion began to gather around Him in His spiritual and mystical
body, the Church in Papua."
     They stayed. Almost immediately there were arrests. Eight
clergymen and two laymen were executed "as an example" on September
2, 1942. It was an example indeed, the beginning of a period of
testing for that portion of Christ's Church, which endured with
steadfastness.

PRAYER
        Almighty God, by whose grace and power thy holy martyrs of
   New Guinea triumphed over suffering, and were faithful unto
   death: Grant us, who now remember them in thanksgiving, to be
   so faithful in our witness to thee in this world, that we may
   receive with them the crown of everlasting life; through Jesus
   Christ our Lord, who liveth and reigneth with thee and the Holy
   Spirit, one God, now and ever.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Organization: University of Missouri-Columbia Campus Computing, 314-882-2000
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 3 Sep 1992 15:27:14 CDT
From:         Elizabeth Stevens <CCCAMPER@MIZZOU1.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Streams in the Desert

Elaine,

Thank you so much for posting this.  Something I've learned
about God, that when we are truly "doing His will", we are not
in control. We literally empty ourselves of desire and self and
control and allow Him to effortlessly make things happen through
us. This is part of what leads to His Peace. Not needing to worry
about manipulating situations to what you believe His willed
outcome may be, but letting Him perform His will Himself.


"Let go and let God" is not just a greeting card phrase. :)

In His love,
Elizabeth
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Sun, 23 Aug 1992 00:15:53 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Religion in schools
              22 Aug 1992 23:41:32 EDT from <AMZIMM01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU>

Angela:

I get my information from many different places.  I try to be particularly
conversant with legal cases across the country.  If you want to say that
such cases don't exist, you will have a hard time convincing the Supreme
Court.  Not to mention Jay Sekulow and the ACLJ.  You may not like these
people or approve of what they do, but the fact that they win cases
in the Supreme Court of the United States earns them coverage from
time to time.

Love INC,
         --Kerry
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 1 Sep 1992 13:30:35 CDT
From:         Jesse Irwin Carnes <NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Their Lady of Cold Springs

Frank ;

What hurts you about Tom Brewer's statements???
The Scriptures do not support any post-Canonrevelations, nor gives them
any AUTHORITY ... so what's the problem?




Jesse Carnes
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU