From: gross@befvax.uchicago.edu
Newsgroups: soc.women
Subject: Re: Carol Moseley Braun (was Re: Women in Politics)
Date: 9 Apr 92 03:26:33 GMT
Reply-To: gross@befvax.uchicago.edu
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Chicago, Dept of Molecular Genetics

In article <BMF479.ECn@world.std.com>, tparks@world.std.com (terry parks) writes:
I really can't believe that Terry Parks is continuing this insane
conversation.

>>Again you call women sexists.
>
>Where:
Twice, when you call the League of Women's Voters the League of
Sexist voters.

>I guess you continue to be confused. I guess this could be called Politically
>Correctitosis.
Please find me one person on then net who agrees with you.  I have 5
so far.

>>But you're just wrong. Anyone can join these organizations.
>
>I get it, they wanted to call it The Men's & Women's Union but they didn't
>think they'd have enough paint for the sign and they were too confused
>like yourself to figure out something like The People's Union.  Regardless
>of its membership, any organization which employs a gender-alienating
>name like The Women's Union is sexist.  If they didn't purposely want
>to alienate men they would purposely use such a title.  BTW, what is the
>gender makeup of your The Women's Union?

You really don't know what you are talking about. The Women's Union is 
not an building but a student group.  Any 10 group of students can form
a group and call themselves anything they want, as long as the follow
the University rules.  Men can join the Women's Union.  Is the fact that
the Chess club is all male an indication that the Chess club is sexist?

>So The Organization of Black Students is not The Organization of Black
>Students but is just called The Organization of Black Students to
>signify that it is not The Organization of Black Students but just
>The Organization of Black Students which calls itself The Organization
>of Black Students.  
Right.  
The YMCA, the "Young Men's Christian Association" has members
who are neither young, male, or christian.  Are you starting to get it?
There need not be a relationship between the names that appear in
the organization and the make up of the members.  The names are kept
for historical reasons, because people recognize them.  
For instance, NCR, national cash register doesn't make cash registers
any more.  They make computers.  There is a blues club called Chicago
Blues, located in NewYork.  And Kansas City is in Missouri.  
And Mothers Against Drunk Driving has members who aren't women or mothers.


>>The league of Women voters
>>encourgages people (all people) to register and to vote, and to watch
>>debates and be informed about the candidates.

>Then why oh why don't they change their name? Simple, painless, why
>do they day in and day out purposely insist on working under a sexist
>banner. The answer is obvious, they purposely don't want to change
>their name, they want to be known as The League of WOMEN Voters,
>not as The League of Voters. They are sexist and they want to maintain
>their sexism.
Because that is the name of the organization, just like the YMCA and
neither changes its name.  Is the YMCA sexists, anti-non-Christians,
anti young-people?  If they changed their name, I wouldn't know who
they were anymore.  

>>me>One more question.  Martin Luther King Jr.  (I'll assume
>>me>you know who he is.  Hint, no relation to Rodney King).  Racist?
>
>>>Did he engage in or support racial prejudice?
>
>>He fought against it, all kinds. 
>
>Well then I guess he wasn't then. See, it's not a difficult determination to
>make at all.

Do you really have to ask this about Martin Luther King?  What planet
do you live on?  And Carol Moseley Braun is in the tradition of Martin
Luther King.

>>me>  What's your problem with her?
>>        [Carol Moseley Braun]
>
>>tp>  She's a racist and sexist bigot.
>
>>me>No sir, you are.
>
>>tp>And this is because?
>
>>I don't know why you are a bigot, but your words speak for themselves.
>
>And exactly which words are these? I'd love to see you quote any
>racist or sexist statement I've made, especially since you'll have
>to make them up.

You have called the League of Women's Voters, Carol Moseley Braun,
and NAACP racist and sexist.  
You have twice replace the word 'women' with sexist.  You have falsely
asserted that I support reverse discrimination.  You called Braun
a racist sexist Hitlerite.  Your words speak for themselves.

me>of course, you ignore the fact that she has a reputation of crossing
me>race and gender lines. 

tp>And you want me to ignore what she herself says. I know, who should
tp>I believe, you or my own eyes.

>>You should believe what Senators, Congressmen, the democratice party,
>>the press, say about her.

>And not what she says herself? Sure, and I'll buy that used car too.

No you idiot.  The other people say those things about her because they
KNOW her and what she says.

>>NO ONE else has your view of her.

>Oh really, everybody else is toeing the Nazi Party, I mean, party
>line?

Listen dumb-fuck, in your last post you said I supported the KKK.
Now you call me a Nazi.   I've already told you that I'm Jewish.
If you want to bash KKK and neo-Nazi propaganda, I'll tell you who
on the net posts it and where to find it.  

You are the only person who has said that Braun is a racist sexist 
Hitlerite bigot.  Everyone else lives in this planet and is not on drugs. 

>>me>And this is because she rejects gender and
>>me>racial bias (read what people besides yourself say about her), not 
>>me>embraces it.
>
>>tp>This is not what she herself says.
>
>>Again, you have provided no evidence of this.
>
>Seeing her on nationwide TV is good enough evidence for me.

No, you have provide NO QUOTE.  You have given YOUR interpretation of
what you have said.  And based on your reasoning and judgements about
a variety of basic aspects of our society, you are not a competent judge.

No one else agrees with you.  Does this tell you anything?
Do you really think there is a conspiracy?  And if you call me a Nazi
again..................

Leon Gross
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV.
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