From: mins@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (timothy.j.mizerak)
Subject: DOOL:  TAN:  A nasty response to Sunni, Ann and .sigless E
Keywords: fasten your seatbelts.....
Organization: AT&T
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 17:11:38 GMT



Sorry folks, but these recent group-bashing posts are begging to be
responded to.  If you're not interested, exit now......

Sunni Holland writes:

>In article <1992Mar23.094831.7614@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com> zeitler@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com (Poor planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine.) writes:
>{stuff about disliking Isabella and Staci Greason deleted}
>
>>I don't know why I even bother reading these posts.  I've noticed that new
>>people seem to only post once. (Especially if they like Isabella, Carly, etc.)
>>because they effectively get ripped to pieces.  I hope you all enjoy
>>yourselves.
>>
>>Judy Zeitler
>>
>AMEN Judy!!!!
>
>I never post becuase I don't think I have an audience to post to. The only
>reason that I have been reading lately is to get updates or try to
>catch some spoilers. The only thing is, you have to wade through so
>much crap to get to them. It especcially annoys me when it says spoilers
>or update in the subject line and then ends up being some bullsh*t
>kill off carly and isabella fantasy post.

The attitude displayed here really gets me.  It sounds like you think
there is some sort of supplier/customer relationship going on here.  You
act as if this group has an obligation to entertain you and provide the
type of posts you would like to see.  That is ludicrous.  What you call
"crap" is what others may enjoy reading.  As a matter of fact, I think
it is pretty clear that others do enjoy reading just what you complain
about.  I know I speak for dozens of people when I say that we enjoy
the "fantasy" posts, along with the other sort of joke posts that have
become common here.

>Yes, I have been finding this goup less a-"peel"-ing lately too, if
>you catch my drift.
>
>Sunni

I guess you couldn't even make up your own pun, but rather lifted the
"a-peel-ing" remark directly from one of the posts you are complaining
about.  The irony of this is incredible.  

Ann Pinyan writes: 

>Another AMEN from me.  I used to read this quite frequently because I
>like hearing new theories and most of them are good and entertaining,
>but I'm really sick of the character/actor slashing of the same people
>over and over.  A good deal of what these characters are is determined
>by the writing (like Carrie taking the bug from Raffi's room).  And, if

In which case I'd say we were criticizing the writing of the character.
Do you have a problem with that too?  Actually, don't answer that 
because I really don't care if you do.


>you all hate the characters and the writing so bad, then watch
>something else.  I have been a DOOL fan for many years and still enjoy
>it.  Sure there are bad actors and bad characters, but it is
>entertaining.  Perhaps you all expect too much from a TV SHOW!

I have watched DOOL for 15 years and I enjoy it also.  I don't want
to watch something else and I understand that there will be good
and bad.  I remark when I see things that I feel are good, and I
am critical when I see things that are bad.  I don't think anyone
here expects *too* much from this show, especially after some of 
the lousy stories we've been served.  But there are examples of
*really* bad writing, and acting, that I think this group reacts
to appropriately.

>As for the Carly and Isabella bashing, could it be that all these
>posters are jealous?  They are both quite beautiful, and great
>actresses as well.  I suppose you would all prefer the unchanging face
>of John Black (Stevens) to the expressive face of Carly.

Jealous?  You really aren't too bright, are you?  How could you think
we are jealous of those that repulse us so?  Staci Greason is a 
marginal actress at best;  Chappell is a little better.  As for them
being beautiful, well that's your o-pinyan, now isn't it Ann?  Sure
would be nice if we could all just state our opinions and not be
accused of some sort of conspiracy for it.  You bashed Drake's 
character.  Are you jealous of him?  Doesn't make much sense once
you think about it, does it?  I do think there is some jealousy 
going on here, but it is on the part of those that are sore that
the majority of this newsgroup doesn't share *their* opinions.  We
can only hope that such people will come to realize that it is OK
to stand alone on an issue.  I've done just that several times and
can say that I actually enjoyed the challenge of arguing my point
of view to the rest of the netters.

>Everyone has his or her own opinions, but the negative ones in this
>newsgroup seem to far outweigh the positive.  Is this because the
>differing viewpoints get shot to hell by an overwhelming majority?
>
>Ann

I disagree in that I think there are a good number of positive posts out
there too.  Mostly good things are said about Danielle, John, Lawrence, 
Jack, Julie, Marcus, Desiree, Vivian, Lisanne......  Or is the problem
that there aren't enough positive posts about the characters *you*
like?  Well, you only have yourself to blame for that.  As for your
comment about differing viewpoints getting shot to hell....  hmmmm,
I never knew I had that much power.  All I have to do is argue against
someone and they'll go away?  Wow!  But wait, that can't be right.  I've
argued with Coleen about Jack, and Vickie about Drake being Roman, and
with Sally about Vern, and with Wanda about Kim, and with Joanna about
Lawrence, and with a few people about Tanner.  All those people are 
still around.  


.sigless E writes:

>>Yes, I have been finding this goup less a-"peel"-ing lately too, if
>>you catch my drift.
>>
>
>         lots more replies deleted.
>
>         I agree wholeheartedly.  It has gotten to the point that if
>         there are a lot of DOOL postings, I just kill them all.
>
>         .sigless E

Good for you, do you want a prize now?  But let me ask this...  how do 
you know just how "bad" things are if you kill so many posts?  I think
I'll just call you .clueless E from now on.



.clueless E goes on to say:

>In article <01GIM6XES98OBDJLSL@ulkyvx.bitnet>, RMDELC01@ULKYVX03.LOUISVILLE.EDU (Rose Marie Delckum) writes...
>> 
>> If you don't like what's going on out there, jump
>>in!  Participate!  Try to change things!  There have been
>>some pro-Ick posts, some pro-Camel posts, etc.  Just sitting
>>back and complaining won't do any good.  Make yourself
>
>         ....lots of the same stuff removed
>
>> How can anyone
>>agree with you if you never come out and say anything?
>> 
>>                                    Rose
>>                                 ---<--<-<{@
>
>         Look, this has been tried again and again.  I am not a
>         lurker, I have posted many times.  However, I am not so fond
>         of my own clever repartee, so I don't fit in.

What has been tried again and again?  If your posts aren't generating
as much response as you would like, then maybe you're not as clever
as you think you are.

>         The communication styles on this group are poor, and the
>         posts get boring as hell.

Then why don't you just go away?  Again, who do you and Sunni and Ann
think you are?  Siskel & Ebert w/ Joel Siegel?   You have no right to
rate this group by how well our posts please you.  If we are that bad,
turn us off.  If you are truly interested in changing things then just
do it and stop your whining.  I can see now why some of you identify
with the Ickmonster.  
 
>         The mere fact that I *say* I like a character should be
>         enough; I should not have to back it up!  For God's sake, we
>         are talking about likes and dislikes here, not quantum
>         physics!

>         .sigless E


You don't have to do anything, but if you think things are "boring
as hell" now, I can only imagine what it would be like if people 
never elaborated on their opinions.   It seems like the group is
pretty popular the way it is.  New people turn up each week and 
seem to "fit in" just fine.  They don't sound very scared or
intimidated to me.   If it doesn't suit your wants/needs, then perhaps
*you* are the problem.

I've really had it with people like Ann and .clueless.  I like this 
group!  I know that *most* people like this group!  I think these 
ladies are just trying to start trouble amongst us.  However, I have
no plans on ignoring them as they need to be shown for the idiots 
they are.  To everyone else, don't go so soft on them [this means you
Joanna-- you were right the first time.]  They weren't very kind to 
us and I plan on returning the favor.  They could have raised this
issue more civilly, but opted for insults instead.  Well, right back 
at ya!

Timinator

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  What is it up in the air for?                :   Timothy Mizerak        |
|  It's going to fall if it's there for long.   :   tm@mhnmc.att.com       |
|  It's over, it's over me.             R.E.M.  :                          |