HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: khan@twg.com (Sharaz Khan)
Subject: Re: WhyIsSwineProhibited? Answer.
Organization: The Wollongong Group, Palo Alto, CA
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 23:26:04 GMT

In article <ceqRgJq00UzxA3Dadl@andrew.cmu.edu> rr37+@andrew.cmu.edu (Rahim N Rahim) writes:
>Mr. AW
>I have refrained from eating swine here in the United States and now
>that I know that they are perfectly clean and well raised here then
>should I start eating them?  Do you think this is right, shouldn't Islam
>be the all encompassing religion that it is and accept that these
>animals can be eaten now.  I am a biology major and I know that the
>impurities that are present in the intestine are not absorbed by the
>swine and kept in it's body. All the filth is removed, I agree that they
>are dirty animals, but steps have been taken to use preventive measures
>against diseases caused by the swine. Therefore we should be a little
>more open minded and think like the rest of the world does.  As an
>educated Muslim should I start eating this animal?
>Rahim
>     

Dear Rahim, Assalam Alikum!

Islam and Islamic Law is based on three things - The Qur'an, the Hadith
of life of the Prophet (PBUH), and Islmaic Jurisprudence.  The Qur'an and
Hadith are the the basis on which Islamic Jurisprudence, itself, is based.

The laws given in the Qur'an, especially that laws that are quite clear
can not be questioned and are to be accepted fully in order to be considered
a true believer.  When I say questioned, I do not mean that there can be no
logical explanation as to why things are forbidden in the Qur'an.  We are
encouraged to try and find the wisdom behind these laws, but we can not
question Allah's Wisdom as to why Allah had forbidden certain things in
the Qur'an.  The Qur'an is very clear as far as forbidding the consumption
of the Swine's flesh.  It is not trivial or unclear, and therefore no other
law can be created (fatwa) by jurisprudence to supercede that which is in
the Qur'an.

Secondly, as far as open-minded thinking is concerned, this would depend
on what your definition of what "open-minded" means.  Each person and 
society, as a matter of fact, has its own definition of open-mindedness.
Islam is very open-minded in many aspects of life, but to consume pork is
in no way open-minded to me, even if pork may be considered clean in this
day and era.  Which brings me to the third point of your argument.  That
is who is considered "educated" in Islam.  Is it the one who has acquired
the most PhD's and Master's degrees or another definition exists for the
educted person?

Sharaaz
From: jawad@ecst.csuchico.edu (Jawad Ali)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Asian models, a friendly disagreement and some extra :-)'s
Date: 7 Oct 92 19:13:54 GMT
Organization: California State University, Chico
NNTP-Posting-Host: cscihp.ecst.csuchico.edu

In article <7OCT199215114341@vxcrna.cern.ch> mirza@vxcrna.cern.ch (MIRZA,I./EP) writes:
>In article <1992Oct7.124353.18459@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, onf@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (omar.farooq) writes...
>>In artcile 28865, HARSHAVARDHAN  DESHMANE writes:
>>>
>>>Is this really true?
>>>I honestly was under the impression that Pakistan is under Islamic law
>>>and that law does not permit alchohol. Maybe I have it wrong about one
>>>or the other. Would appreciate a clarification from the people who know.

The answer is simple. NO. Pakistan is not under Islamic law.
Anyone who claims otherwise is telling you a bold lie.

>	You forgot to mention that we make one of the finest beer.

It is a matter of taste, I suppose.  Most people I know who have
tasted European beers usualy spit out their first sip of Muree Brew,
and make comments about the taste of saccharin and watered down bodily
fluids of sick animals :) :)

>	This is my opinion after living in Germany (a beer drinking country) 
>	for several years. This beer factory near Muree has survived
>	atleast 3 burnings by the fundamentalists. It is pity that
>	we are not promoting this sector. It can create lot of local
>	jobs and foreign exchange. Some parts of Pakistan are also
>	ideal to produce wines.
>
Mirza Sahib,  I have a better idea for you to make money.  Why not
take Pakistan the Thai route.  Sell hoards of our bibi's to German
tourists.  Consider:

It will be closer for the Germans to fly over.
The Aids apedemic is really not threatening to decimate the country -- yet.
A bigger supply of pubersent girls than hops and grapes.
The fundamentalists :) are not in the habit of burning whore-houses -- only
	brewries.
Think of all the money you will make.
Higher taxes on beer in Pakistan than whoring.

And reason no ONE:

Babes, babes, babes!

>Mirza Ilyas

j n a.
and oh, :) :) :) :) :) :)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: mirza@vxcrna.cern.ch (MIRZA,I./EP)
Subject: Re: Asian models, a friendly disagreement and some extra :-)'s
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: European Organization for Nuclear Research, CERN
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 14:11:00 GMT

In article <1992Oct7.124353.18459@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, onf@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (omar.farooq) writes...
>In artcile 28865, HARSHAVARDHAN  DESHMANE writes:
> 
>[...deleted...]
> 
>>>
>>>	   Theoretically, this is a valid option. When something starts
>>>from underneath the basement, the only way to move is up. :-)
>>>These days a party in Pakistan is termed "classy" only with whiskey
>>>and key club. 
>>
>>Is this really true?
>>I honestly was under the impression that Pakistan is under Islamic law
>>and that law does not permit alchohol. Maybe I have it wrong about one
>>or the other. Would appreciate a clarification from the people who know.
> 
>>thanks
> 
>>-harsh
>>-- 
>----------------------------------------------------------------
> 
>Whether something is "classy" or not varies from people to people.
>I can tell you that having lived in Islamabad, there are many people
>who think having liquor at a party is galmorous, those that find it 
>sinful, and those that find it pointless: just like anywhere else
>in the world.  You can go to any party and there will be people who
>absolutely must have liquor/alcohol, people who would rather not have
>any liqour present or be in the presence of those driking and getting
>"happy", and those that don't care; at home, at friends' or at college.
>Well maybe not exactly college!!!!
> 
>But the point being that, there are always different people, and
>as far as I have seen, there is not a predominantly alcohol oriented
>social trend with Pakistan's masses.  However, I haven't lived there
>in 10 years (except for visits), so there might be some differences. 
> 
>As far as alcohol being prohibited is concerned, well, if you are
>rich and powerful, you can get anything anywhere.  Although this is not
>a very pervasive practice, there are plenty of bribe-giving rich who
>sneak in alochol from Europe or USA into Pakistan.
> 
>Pakistan also has gun-control laws, hahahahahahahah!  But that won't
>stop people in Chitral and Kaghan (near the Northeastern most strip
>of Afghan territory, separating Pakistan and former Soviet Union)
>from setting up one of the world's largest black markets.  If you go there,
>you feel you are either back in time or in a movie.  This market has
>just about anything from everywhere.  Chinese sell silk,
>Russians sell caviar and fur, and Afghans and Uzbeks sell weapons and hashish
>and handicrafts as well.
> 
> 
> 
>Omar
>omar.farooq@att.com


	You forgot to mention that we make one of the finest beer.
	This is my opinion after living in Germany (a beer drinking country) 
	for several years. This beer factory near Muree has survived
	atleast 3 burnings by the fundamentalists. It is pity that
	we are not promoting this sector. It can create lot of local
	jobs and foreign exchange. Some parts of Pakistan are also
	ideal to produce wines.

Mirza Ilyas
Xref: sparky soc.culture.pakistan:15703 soc.culture.arabic:4264
From: ghayalm@ucunix.san.uc.edu (Manoj Ghayalod)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Re: Modern Education is Misleading
Date: 14 Oct 92 00:05:54 GMT
Organization: University of Cincinnati

In article <1992Oct12.121754.688@hls.com> silatman@hls.com writes:
>
>
>    I see a few people on the net who are under the influence
>of "modern" education system which is based on a foundation
>that denies the Test presented by Allah swt, and wants to make
>everything ongoing and Uncertain, thus producing "graduates"
>who deep inside start denying Islam, and even mocking it
>with "scientific" theories.
>
>    What "science" do you people keep talking about. The human
>beings do not yet perceive the complete set of logics which
>govern the universe. They do not have the permission. What
>is presented to them is a test, so that Allah swt can see
>who is obedient and who is not. 
>
Why does Allah conduct these tests?  Is he always looking for
people to send to Hell?  What is the criteria for passing these tests?
Is it to obey the Quran word by word?  What if some of the verses are
not clear?

Manoj

What if I am in the wrong religion, then I am making God madder and
madder every day.
                Simpson
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: rayes@Goat.mcs.kent.edu (Mohamed Omar Rayes)
Subject: Pleaese READ THIS
Reply-To: rayes@mcs.kent.edu
Organization: Dept. of Math and Computer Science
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 03:28:00 GMT



From msa-request@eleceng.ee.queensu.ca Thu Oct  8 22:57 EDT 1992
Return-Path: <msa-request@eleceng.ee.queensu.ca>
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Reply-To: HADDARA@SSCvax.CIS.McMaster.CA
Date: 08 Oct 1992 22:44:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: Al-Muraqqash Al-Akbar <HADDARA@SSCvax.CIS.McMaster.CA>
Subject: Appeal for a brother
Message-Id: <01GPQ0VLWBF69I574V@SSCVAX.CIS.MCMASTER.CA>
To: msa@eleceng.ee.queensu.ca
Status: RO

Number: msa/08Oct92/452
Bismillahirrahmanirahim

    A Student's Life At ...................... from Islamic Center Of Minnesota

                           A Student's Life At Stake
                                      from
                          Islamic Center Of Minnesota

        Mr. Riaz Ahmad  Malik  (from  Pakistan),  a  Ph.D.  cadidate  of
        Anthropology in the  University  of Minnesota, has ben diagnosed
        having STOMACH  CANCER  (Gastric  Carcinoma)  in the last stage.
        According to the medical advisors, if treatment is delayed, this
        life-threatening disease can  spread  rapidly  to other parts of
        the body.

        As a last resort a prolonged and very painful medical treatement
        (Chemotherapy) has been recommended to save his life. Mr. Malik,
        unfortunately, can not afford this very expensive treatment. Mr.
        Malik has a wife  and  a  9  month  old  doaughter  as  his only
        immediate family in the U.S.

        Given the circumstances it is  our moral obligation to help save
        a human life. Please  pray  for  his  recovery  and if possible,
        please provide monetary help  to  Mr.  Malik and his family. You
        are requested to send you  donations  directly  to the following
        Bank Account, especially established for this purpose:

        RIAZ AHMAD and HAMIDA MALIK
        Account # 9861341157
        TCF BANK SAVINGS FSB
        2100 NORTH SNELLING AT COUNTY ROAD B
        ROSEVILLE, MN 55113

        Home Address:
        1019 East 29th Ave, SE
        Minneapolis, MN 55414

___________________________
HADDARA@SSCvax.CIS.McMaster.CA

Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: ghayalm@ucunix.san.uc.edu (Manoj Ghayalod)
Subject: Re: Visa to India
Organization: University of Cincinnati
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 04:55:28 GMT

In article <1bhhgkINNl9m@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> khan@ces.cwru.edu (Mansoor Khan) writes:
>
>
>	I received an application for Visa to the Republic of India
>few days ago. This application form is designed especially for citizens
>of Pakistan. I have two questions :
>
>	1) Why do they want to know religion of the applicant. Republic
>	   of India being secular (atleast by constitution) should not
>	   indulge in such questions ! Will someone ( from India)
>	   clarify this.
>
1. Maybe for statistics.
2. To see if there are still any Hindus in Pakistan.   I have never met 
a Hindu from Pakistan, not even on the net.

Manoj
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: gagrawal@cs.tamu.edu (Gopal Agrawal)
Subject: Re: Awami Disco Party - a Statement on Naveed Shervani's behalf
Organization: Computer Science Dept., Texas A&M University
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 20:14:30 GMT

In article <1992Oct14.034125.3263@sol.cs.wmich.edu> sherwani@sol.cs.wmich.edu (Naveed Sherwani) writes:
>
> I guess I never learned how to question when I was in Pakistan. I give credit
								^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> of this type of thinking to american education system. I am very happy that I 
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>have learned to question my beliefs and my ideas. How to teach others this
>method of questioning is one of the greatest challenges in my teaching career. 
>I hope my students will not blindly follow what I will tell them, but question,
>test it and follow it as long as they think it is correct. This is the only 
>way they may find new ideas.
>
>-Naveed

While not disparaging your ability to question, I seriously doubt
that this ability has been introduced in you because of American 
educational system. If that was the case then we wouldn't have 
netters (who have also been studying for some time in US) issuing 
fatwas, and refusing to accept new concepts.  Even in US, a lot 
of Americans have extrememly conservative outlooks. It most probably 
was the environment in which you were brought up.  If you have lived 
in a very conservative environment even after you have crossed 
adoloscence, then I believe that such a person can never be taught
to be receptive to new ideas or rational logic.  

However, if you have lived in a more liberal environment, then that 
ability to question may have been introduced, but not necessarily 
enjoyed the freedom to practise it. I am sure you must have asked 
such questions several times to yourself in pakistan too but were
afraid to speak out against the establishment. The only credit that 
US can be given is that we enjoy the freedom to voice our skepticism. 

regards,
--   
   ______ ______ ______ ______ __  |\/\/\/|
    ____/  __  /  __  /  __  /  /  |  \  /|   LIFE'S COMPLEX - IT HAS 
   / __   /   /  /   /  /   /  /   | (o)(o)   REAL & IMAGINARY PARTS  
  /   /  /   /   ___/  __  /  /    C      _) 
_____/ _____/ __/   __/ __/ ______/ | \___|  
E-mail - gagrawal@cs.tamu.edu       |   /   All Std. Disclaimers apply.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: hdeshma@eos.ncsu.edu (HARSHAVARDHAN  DESHMANE)
Subject: Re: Asian models, a friendly disagreement and some extra :-)'s
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 08:22:41 GMT

In article <718316897@halibut.cs.duke.edu> azhar@duke.cs.duke.edu (D. Salman [Quintessential] Azhar) writes:
>In article <1ank9dINN96h@charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu> jawad@ecst.csuchico.edu (Jawad Ali) writes:
>>In article <718217983@halibut.cs.duke.edu> azhar@duke.cs.duke.edu (D. Salman [Quintessential] Azhar) writes:
>>>           Pakistani society is divided on the issue: One group
>>>considers models no better (in social class) that prostitutes, and the
>>>other group considers models no better than actors/actresses.
>
>>It is a charactarization that is not entirely without merit, afterall,
>>modelling does have elements of actiung and prostitution. 
>
>	   At a more personal level, I would agree with Jawad, that
>modeling (britishspelling modelling) has elements of acting (because a
>model pretends to be someone (s)he isn't) and prostitution (because
>Paula Abdul sells her body, not diet Coke :-)).
>
>> One way to elevate
>>the status of modeling could be by elevating the status of the other
>>two more established professions. :-)
>
>	   Theoretically, this is a valid option. When something starts
>from underneath the basement, the only way to move is up. :-)
>These days a party in Pakistan is termed "classy" only with whiskey
>and key club. 

Is this really true?
I honestly was under the impression that Pakistan is under Islamic law
and that law does not permit alchohol. Maybe I have it wrong about one
or the other. Would appreciate a clarification from the people who know.

>
[stuff deleted]
> I must, in flood of tears, drown or cleanse myself
> I must! I must! I must! For my people and myself -- D. Salman [Q] Azhar


thanks

-harsh
-- 
_______________________________________________________________________________
Harshavardhan Deshmane, ECE Dept.                   hdeshma@croc.ece.ncsu.edu
North Carolina State University.                    hdeshma@csl36h.csl.ncsu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: arkay@leland.Stanford.EDU (Abdur Khan)
Subject: Re: Asian models, a friendly disagreement and some extra :-)'s
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 18:27:30 GMT

In article <13OCT199208420774@vxcrna.cern.ch>, mirza@vxcrna.cern.ch (MIRZA,I./EP) writes:
|> In article <1992Oct11.162648.2256@vax1.mankato.msus.edu>, ARKAY@LELAND.STANFORD.EDU (ABDUR KHAN) writes...
|> > 
|> AMAAN MIRZA MIAN....I THINK YOU ARE IN THE WRONG SECTION DUDE!
|> THIS IS CULTURE OF PAKISTAN, WHICH IS AN ISLAMIC REPUBLIC NOT A 
|> NATION OF BEER DRINKING JERKS LIKE YOU!!SORRY FOR THE OFFENSIVE BEHAVIOUR
|> BUT YOUR NONSENSE POSTINGS ARE DRIVING ME NUTS!!!!
|> 			<KoOL>>
|> 
|> 

Dear SCPians,
i did not write the above article, as i would never use the word "Amaan"

sahibzada rafay khan [ drink beer or oj and live happily ever after]


|> 	Who told you that Pakistan should be an Islamic Republic?
|> 	Atleast that is not what Mohammad Ali Jinnah thought!
|> 	or did.
|> 	Does it matter to claim something what we are not and
|> 	can never be?
|> 
|> Mirza Ilyas
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: hdeshma@eos.ncsu.edu (HARSHAVARDHAN  DESHMANE)
Subject: Re: Clinton/Gore '92??!!!! Was Re: WhyIsSwineProhibited? Answer.
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 23:40:25 GMT

In article <719077087@flounder.cs.duke.edu> azhar@duke.cs.duke.edu (D. Salman [Quintessential] Azhar) writes:
>In article <Bw334E.AKA@ucunix.san.uc.edu> ghayalm@ucunix.san.uc.edu (Manoj Ghayalod) writes:
>>Do you condone foriegn interference from Pakistan too?
>
>	   No, but I condemn Indian domination because it is blatantly
>brutal. 
>
>>>	   Being a Kashmiri, I not only feel sorry for them, but also
>>>recognize that the solution must come from within.
>>
>>Which part of Kashmir are you from?  The Indian part or the Pakistani 
>>occupied part?
>
>	   I am from Kashmir, which has no Indian part: An independent
>country which is not just occupied, but terrorized by Indian
>politicians in their voracity. I think Manoj Shaib, you are showing
>your pro-Indian baises... why don't you ask the Kashmiris what they
>want? 
>
>   Salman [dsqa-jna '92 :-)] Azhar

i guess, finally we must accept that the only solution now is for india
to invade pakistan and rectify the mistake of partition.
that way everyone is one big happy family, right my pakistani brethren?
(since you all seem to want so many parts of india:))

-harsh

-- 
_______________________________________________________________________________
Harshavardhan Deshmane, ECE Dept.                   hdeshma@croc.ece.ncsu.edu
North Carolina State University.                    hdeshma@csl36h.csl.ncsu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: ghayalm@ucunix.san.uc.edu (Manoj Ghayalod)
Subject: Re: Asian models, a friendly disagreement and some extra :-)'s
Organization: University of Cincinnati
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 04:31:44 GMT

In article <1992Oct15.102805.28001@panix.com> imran@panix.com (Imran Anwar) writes:
>
>Bullshit!  If Islam was being spread, especially in India, at the 
>point of a sword how come the Hindus remained a MAJORITY or for that
>matter they even stayed ALIVE or survived as a race.  Must have
>9 lives or something.
>
>Imran Anwar

In 1971 the Pakistani army surrendered to the Indian army. It was the
biggest surrender ever made till the Iraqi surrender.  The Indian army
could do as it pleased in Pakistan, but the Pakistanis as a race
survived?  Do you Pakistanis like us Indians have 9 lives?
Or did the Indian army get the Pakistanis to surrender by spreading
love? Don't overestimate the power of Islamic rulers in India.
The amount of power India had over Pakistanis, no muslim king
had over all of India.



Manoj
From: axa6244@hertz.njit.edu (Amna Akhtar)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re:> Vital Signs & Omar Sharif   In New Jersey.
Date: 9 Oct 92 00:55:29 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.
Originator: axa6244@hertz.njit.edu


  


Omar Sharif is performing on the 11 th of this month in the

	Ramada Rens  Hotel in East Brunswick at 7.00 pm.












	and as for Vital Signs they are performing on the 10 th

of October in New York  at Penta Hotel    


			&


on the 18 th of October  at Ramada Rens Hotel in East Brunswick.




For more info call  
		    (201) 997-9379


........................................................................
.
From: qazilb50@wharton.upenn.edu (Haider Ali Qazilbash)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: PSAI Technical Assistance Committee
Date: 12 Oct 92 05:55:05 GMT
Organization: Wharton School of Business

To: All Pakistanis

	Dr Sohail Aslam, a faculty member at the SAH Institute of Computer 
Science (SAHICS), Lahore (one of the premier institutes for computer science 
in our country), is seeking assistance in the transfer of technology and 
information to SAHICS. 
	One of his objectives, as manifested in his letters and by the fact 
that he left a post-doctorate position at University of Illinois-Urbana 
Champaign, is to provide our compatriots at SAHICS with appropriate academic 
facilities. 
	The PSAI will be starting a Technical Assistance Committee to bring 
together Pakistanis who share Dr Sohail Aslam and SAHICS's commitment
for educational excellence at Pakistan. This group will comprise of people
who are in a position to offer something constructive in reference to
this request for assistance.
	I am confident that a number of you reading this letter are students 
and professionals in computer science and related fields, sharing the dream of 
helping Pakistan with a project that is incumbent to play a role in the 
long run development of our country.

	If you would like to be a part of this group, please write to me by  
October 25.  Thank you.

With regards,

Haider Ali Qazilbash

qazilb50@wharton.upenn.edu