From: HOLFELTZ@LSTC2VM.stortek.com
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: When was REVELATION written ?
Date: 28 Jul 92 06:55:28 GMT
Organization: StorageTek SW Engineering

In article <Jul.23.03.10.06.1992.12600@dumas.rutgers.edu>
Tim.ONeill@english.utas.edu.au (Tim O'Neill) writes:
 
>
>In article <Jul.20.02.22.21.1992.9263@dumas.rutgers.edu>, HOLFELTZ@LSTC2VM.stortek.com writes:
>
>> Another good book is "Jesus and the Riddle of the Dead Sea Scrolls"
>> by Barbara Thiering, and sells for about $23.00
>
>Thiering's account of the origins of christianity is pure nonsense.
>Her most recent book, 'Jesus the Man'(which could be the one mentioned
>above) is so bizarre that it has to be seen to be believed. She says
>amongst other things
 
Haven't seen nor read 'Jesus the Man'
 
>-The gospels are coded works to which only she has the key.
 
Coded works, yes; but her having the only key--NO.  If I
wanted to be important, I'd pick some story of the past and
changes the names etc.  I'm sure many people have do this
throughout all of recorded history.
 
>-The Dead Sea Scrolls were written at the same time as the gospels
 
Other recognized scholars say the same thing, most notibly
REisenman (sp), who uses coinage and context within the text
to date.  This is much more accurate than looking at the way
the words were written.  Even I can copy early American caliography.
Does this mean I lived 200 years ago?  The content of my text
would expose me, just as an analysis of the DSS has shown they
weren't written when MOST scholars say.
 
>-Jesus and John the Baptist were both Essenes. They were leaders of
>rival factions. Jesus is refered to in the DSS as 'the wicked priest'.
 
Victors write the winners history, the losers always blame someone.
Why couldn't they have been?  Now I doubt the Essenic movement was
the winner--your guess, who are they going to blame?  The one who
they believe caused them to loose.  Who is a likely candidate?
 
Look at the Demo and Repub parties of the American system, hell I
see lots of factions.  I also see the left winning, the right winning;
and occasionally, the moderates.  Now if the (R) lost the election
and the (LR) believed the cause had been betrayed by the (RR), I'd
expect to heard/see/read about it from them.  Try thinking about it.
 
>-Herod the Great was planning to conquer the entire Roman Empire with
>the help of Jesus' father and grandfather.
 
The Japanese are conquering America.  They tried with guns and lost,
but are winning with money.  This sounds like good politics to me, look
at the America politics, how they lie, cheat ....  are we any different
today than then?  I doubt it.
 
>-Caiaphus, Annas, Pontius Pilate and Simon Magus were also Essenes.
 
As I remember, PP was not one; but knew of them--and probably used them
for his own agenda.
 
>-All of the action described (in coded form, of course) in the gospels
>took place at Qumran, and not at Nazareth, Jerusalem, Bethlehem etc.
 
Hmmm, try reading more then.  This is not the first time I have run
across this theme.
 
>And so it goes on. All of this complete rewriting of history has been
>revealed by Dr Thiering's 'decoding' of the gosples, and is not substantiated
>in any way whatsoever.
 
We rewrite our history all the time.  Look at the last 90 years worth.
Or even better, with all the believers in the political correct, see how
history is being changed.   As below, if you are a historian of the
period, you should have already recognized what was happening, both
now and then.  Might I suggest looking at the camel before swallowing?
(The camel in this case is how we are changing our current 'history'
and accepting that, but straining at the 'gnat' when one suggests this
behavior has occured before).
 
>A friend of mine, who is (like me) not a christian, but a historian
>of the period, has hung up his brand new copy of her book in his
>toilet. There, he says, people can be amused by it and can use it
>as toilet paper if they wish.
>This fantasy is not a 'good book' by any stretch of the imagination!
 
Try reading 'Morning of the Magicians'.  One of the chapters talked
about how everything in science had been discovered by 1890(?); and
how the acedemic world lamented it.  We live in a world of post 1890
discoveries.
 
Fantasy, as you well know, is relative; imagination IS the beginning
of discovery.
 
I don't know Dr Thiering from Betty Sue, nor is what she writes the
gospel for me, but I wont swear at her and throw everything away either.
After all, the science of the day said, heavier than air objects couldn't
fly (and the bumble bee still can't).
 
>Tim O'Neill
 
A poor Wayfaring Stranger [some say, a Strange One] in a strange land,
 
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