HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: lprylli@ens-lyon.fr (Loic Prylli)
Subject: Re : joining in 2.3
Reply-To: lprylli@ens-lyon.fr
Organization: Ecole Normale Superieure de Lyon
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 12:52:34 GMT


In article 724082271@limotoc, fxg@limotoc.informatik.rwth-aachen.de (Felix Gatzemeier) writes:
> Hello
> 
> I am currently working on an assigment involving the graphics libarary of the
> ISE complier, whose es tells me it's version 2.3, level 4. The problem is that

....

> If I read ETL for 3.0 right, this would join the deferred features from

I think the core of the problem is that you are using Eiffel 2.3 which uses
a different method than Eiffel 3.0 in some cases.


> MY_GEN_FIGURE with the implementations from CIRCLE, so that a call to
>     mc: MY_CIRCLE;
>     ...
>     mc.slide(shifter);
> would call CIRCLE's erase, translate and display features.
> Instead, I get a bunch of name clashes: more than one parent... errors.
> I have tried several clutches:

In eiffel 2.3 when you are trying to join deferred features you have
to declare it explicitly in the inherit clause with define for each
deferred feature you join.
For instance :

	class MY_CIRCLE


	inherit
	 CIRCLE;
	 MY_GEN_FIGURE
 		define barycenter,contains,convert_to_resolution,display,
 			duplicate,erase,origin,recompute_closure,
 			rotate,scale,translate, fillable
 
	feature
	
	end


	deferred class MY_GEN_FIGURE

	inherit
		GEN_FIGURE
			redefine fillable;
 
	feature

		slide (v: VECTOR; win: GRAPH_WINDOW) is
			do
				erase (win);
				translate (v);
				display (win);
			end;
	
		fillable : BOOLEAN is
			deferred
			end;
	
	
	end



As all routines in the define clause of class MY_CIRCLE were effected
in ELLIPSE or in some other ancestor, they can't be handled properly just by
repeated inheritance. You have to use "definition".

The case of fillable is special. Strangely it is not deferred in GEN_FIGURE
but instead it returns systematically False. So it is redefined in CLOSED_FIG
to return True. Obviously you can't obtain only one feature from two different
versions if you don't undefine one. In Eiffel 2.3 you can undefine a feature
by redefining it with a deferred routine as it is made in MY_GEN_FIGURE

 

> I am nearly driven crazy by this. I know that there are less general solutions
> to it, like having the world handling the movement in this special case, but
> I want that general solution. After all, that's why I took up OOP in the first
> place.

I think version 3.0 is in some cases far easier to use.

Loic PRYLLI
ENS-Lyon
France




Newsgroups: comp.lang.eiffel
From: iwelch@agsm.ucla.edu (Ivo Welch)
Subject: Eiffel Description
Organization: UCLA, Anderson Graduate School Of Management
Date: 19 Dec 92 14:30:51 PST


Is there a 2-10 page description of Eiffel features?  I'd like to switch to
a safer language than C++, and a number of  people mentioned Eiffel. I have
no idea of what features it has.

I  would like   to get garbage  collection   and  type-safety,  as  well as
(numeric-support) features such as operator overloading and IEEE awareness,
linking with Fortran/C  (and C++) code,  a  debugging facility, and  modern
data/object structures. Speed  is  important  but  not  so important as  to
preclude simple automatic run-time checks.

Is there a trial/real version of Eiffel that runs on NeXT computers?

/ivo welch
From: fxg@bolgolam.informatik.rwth-aachen.de (Felix Gatzemeier)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.eiffel
Subject: barycenter
Date: 14 Dec 92 11:50:49 GMT
Organization: Rechnerbetrieb Informatik - RWTH Aachen
NNTP-Posting-Host: bolgolam.informatik.rwth-aachen.de
Summary: What does barycenter mean?

A question about the graphics libraries:

  >> what does barycenter mean? <<

(The manual doesn't explain it, Webster (TM) doesn't know it
and my imagination can't get it, either.)

Thanx, 



    Felix
From: jwg1@gte.com (James W. Gish)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.eiffel
Subject: Re: barycenter
Date: 15 Dec 92 23:49:39 GMT
Organization: GTE Laboratories Incorporated, Waltham, MA
In-reply-to: fxg@bolgolam.informatik.rwth-aachen.de's message of 14 Dec 92 11:50:49 GMT

In article <fxg.724333849@bolgolam> fxg@bolgolam.informatik.rwth-aachen.de (Felix Gatzemeier) writes:
	A question about the graphics libraries:

	  >> what does barycenter mean? <<

	(The manual doesn't explain it, Webster (TM) doesn't know it
	and my imagination can't get it, either.)

The American Heritage Dictionary defines barycenter as "center of mass"

--
Jim Gish (jgish@gte.com)
Sr. Member of Technical Staff
GTE Laboratories Inc.
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
From: penev@venezia (Penio Penev)
Subject: native FORTH for R3000/IRIX available /beta/ (was Re: forth+)
Organization: Rockefeller University
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 13:05:53 GMT
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Reply-To: penev@venezia.rockefeller.edu
X-Posted-From: venezia.rockefeller.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

Stephen J Bevan (bevan@cs.man.ac.uk) wrote:
: In article <2377360@overmind.citadel> Interface!Lady_Bacardi@overmind.mind.org writes:
:       Forth and C:  I have oft heard of this request... "Write me a
:       Forth in C" has been the words... but why would I want to? To
:       use emulated register inside of emulated registers seems to be
:       the worst possible idea based on pure futility... why don't you
:       C folks go out and get a real Forth instead and learn it??
:       (Sorry to sound snobbish here, but its true... go for the pure,
:       not the umteenth onion layer.)  
: 
: I agree, but where am I supposed to get a FREE native code Forth
: system for SPARCstations?  With so many implementations of other
: languages available for free, I have a tough time justifying the
: purchase of a Forth system.
: 

If You ran an SGI machine, You could get one from me. I just target
compiled a polyFORTH style FORTH from a PC to my new environment (SGI
Indigo/IRIX). I think, that we as a community must support FORTH on
several magor UNIX platforms. This would help any of us when moving to
another environment to port easily. Besides supporting FORTH for UNIX,
I think, that we must write and support several packages - TCP/IP and
X among them.

I need some info on how can I make what I just wrote public. It's not
very well tested, but can compile the elctives and run the editor
(full screen one). The good thing is that its native FORTH, _very_
fast, perfect for intensive work. If You are familiar with polyFORTH,
You will feel very comfortably. I've tried to avoid unnecessary
differences from their (1983) product for 8086.

It should be fairly easy to target compile this to other platforms. It
took me 2.5 weeks. And all basic work is done - RISC architecture,
inline, 32 bits, UNIX. If somebody is interested in targeting this to
other platfortms (e.g. SPARC (sorry, I do not have access to SPARC)),
I can write a description on the procedure.

If somebody is intereded in the raw beta version, I'm ready to mail it
instantly. 

Penio.

Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
From: a7657@mindlink.bc.ca (Stephen H. Kawamoto)
Subject: Re: forth+
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 23:41:24 GMT

chris, if you're looking for forth in c, ask the author of hence4th to
include you on his mailing list.

 hm... now will the author step forward?

--
Stephen Kawamoto <a7657@mindlink.bc.ca>
    "It is the very mind itself
     That leads the mind astray;
     Of the mind,
     Do not be mindless."
     (an old Japanese folk song)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth,comp.sys.mips
From: mikeh@kralizec.zeta.org.au (Michael Hore)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Re: FORTH for the Mac
Date: 16 Dec 1992 12:19:51 +1100
Organization: Kralizec Dialup Unix Sydney: +61-2-837-1183 V.42bis


I wrote:

>Try Yerk or Mops.  Both are descendants of Neon, and fully support the
>Mac OS right up to System 7.  They're available for ftp from
>oddjob@uchicago.edu.

Of course I meant oddjob.uchicago.edu.

--  Mike.     
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Hore     mikeh@kralizec.zeta.org.au
"Wisdom has never been known to enter the head through an open mouth"
-- overheard somewhere.
From: LIN001CI@BRUNB.BITNET (Daniel Sobral)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: ANS Forth
Date: 12 Dec 92 20:21:11 GMT
Reply-To: FIGI-L%BRUSPVM.BITNET@cmsa.Berkeley.EDU
Distribution: world
Organization: The Internet

Can some
     Can someone tell me what's the current state of ANS Forth and how to get
the latest document?

                                    (8-DCS)
From: Snail's_Place_BBS!The_System_Network@overmind.mind.org
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: (none)
Date: 11 Dec 92 22:12:00 EDT
X-Spam-content: irrelevant


 interface seed
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 10:52:37 EST
From: <DGB4@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: FTPable FAQ location?

Does an FTP site exist for the FAQ?  An address would be great.

Thanks,
dgb4@psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
From: mef@aplcenmp.apl.jhu.edu (Marty Fraeman)
Subject: ACM SIGForth Workshop
Summary: papers still being accepted
Organization: Johns Hopkins Continuing Professional Programs
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 17:23:56 GMT

Abstract submissions for the 1993 ACM SIGForth Workshop are still being
accepted.  The workshop not only provides an opportunity to meet and
talk with with your peers in the Forth community but it is also held in
conjunction with the much larger ACM SAC and CSC conferences (see the
conference description below).

Please contact me if you are interested in presenting your work.

	Marty Fraeman

	mef@.glinda.jhuapl.edu 	(<-- not the machine this is posted from!)
	301-953-6000, x8360	(voice)
	301-953-6119		(fax)

	Room 13-s587
	Johns Hopkins University/Applied Physics Laboratory
	Johns Hopkins Road
	Laurel, Md. 20723

----------------------Announcement Below------------------------


                 SIGForth '93 Forth Language Workshop

               "FORTH IN THE EXPLORATION OF OUTER SPACE"

The 5th Annual SIGForth Workshop will be held February 14-16, 1993, in
Indianapolis, Indiana in conjunction with the  SIGAPP Symposium on Applied
Computing (SAC '93) and the Computer Science Conference (CSC). The Workshop
is sponsored by ACM's Special Interest Group on the Forth Programming
Language (SIGForth).  All SIGForth activities will take place at the Indiana
Convention Center (unless otherwise noted).  Forth is a high-level, stack-
oriented, extensible language which promotes code modularity and programmer
productivity in an integrated environment.  A six hour pre-workshop tutorial
entitled, "Microcontroller and Computer Interfacing using Forth" will be held
on February 14.  The workshop starts on February 15 and will include
technical papers and the following tutorials:

                  "Metacompilation", by Bradford J. Rodriguez

                  "Scientific Forth", by Julian V. Noble

                  "An Introduction to Forth", by Lawrence P.G. Forsley

For more information about the workshop contact:

SIGForth '93
Irving Montanez
Brookhaven National Laboratory
Bldg. 911A  AGS Dept.
Upton, New York  11973
516/282-2540
516/282-5676 Fax
Email: montanez@bnl.gov


Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
From: jvn@fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU (Julian V. Noble)
Subject: scientific programming in forth
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 19:01:03 GMT

Subject: scientific programming in forth
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Organization: University of Virginia


FORTH has been called "...one of the  best-kept  secrets  in  the 
computing world". Combining the execution  speed  of  a  compiled 
language with the immediacy and  convenience  of  an  interpreted 
language, FORTH is nevertheless  so  simple  its  kernel  can  be 
compressed into a few kilobytes of machine code. Many scientists, 
engineers and programmers have recognized that FORTH "...provides 
the most direct,  revealing  and  flexible  way  for  controlling 
computer hardware yet invented,"  applying  FORTH  to  industrial 
control, robotics and laboratory instrumentation. 

FORTH is the only completely extensible modern computer language. 
User-defined operators, data structures, commands, functions  and 
subprograms  act  precisely  like  the   core   operators,   data 
structures and commands -- they are  true  extensions  to  FORTH. 
Moreover, the FORTH compiler is part of the  language,  available 
to the user. These features give FORTH enormous abstractive power 
and elegance of expression. A  FORTH  program  to  solve   linear 
equations can look as simple as 

: }}SOLVE     ( adr[M] adr[y] - - ) 
              SETUP   TRIANGULARIZE   BACKSOLVE  ;

"Scientific FORTH: a modern language  for  scientific  computing" 
extends  the  FORTH  kernel  in  the  direction   of   scientific 
problem-solving. It is the  first  book  to  illustrate  advanced 
FORTH programming techniques with non-trivial applications: 

         . high-speed real and complex floating point arithmetic

         . generic data structures and  operations  ("intelligent 
           floating point stack)

         . numerical integration/Monte-Carlo methods

         . linear equations and matrices

         . functional representation of data (FFT, polynomials)

         . function minimization

         . differential equations

         . roots of equations

         . computer algebra 

         . FORmula TRANslator 


Since (as sayeth the Preacher)  "...time  and  chance  happen  to 
everything" (even FORTH!) "Scientific FORTH" devotes considerable 
space  to  explaining  the  algorithms  and  ideas   behind   the 
illustrative programs. 

All programs appear on the diskette included with the book. 

The list price  of  "Scientific  FORTH:  a  modern  language  for 
scientific computing" (ISBN 0-9632775-0-2) is $49.95 + $3.00  s/h 
(in continental US--overseas shipping additional).

To order, send personal check,  money  order  (sorry,  no  credit 
cards) or corporate  purchase  order  (terms  for  P.O.'s:  $5.00 
handling charge, payment  due  30  calendar  days  from  billing, 
interest on unpaid balance @ 1.5% /month) to

         Mechum Banks Publishing
         P.O. Box 335
         Ivy, Virginia 22901
         USA
From: rel@psybbs.uucp (Richard Lee)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: The Psychotronic Hangover
Date: 15 Dec 92 09:03:00 GMT


      The Electronic Hangover  919-286-4542 ZyXEL
      Psychotronic BBS         919-286-7738 HST/V.32bis

      XRS, QWK, & Bluewave Reader Users Welcome

      Almost 200 echomail conferences as well as one
      of the most amazing local message bases you'll
      ever see.

      OS/2 files and fido, usenet, and special OS/2
      conferences.

      PCPursuit:NCRTP  *  StarLinkable: Durham, NC

      Drop by & see why folks from around the nation
      call.

      Thanks,
      Richard
      rel@psybbs.uucp
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
From: mikeh@starnine.com (Mike Haas)
Subject: Re: Real dumb question.
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 03:08:11 GMT
Organization: StarNine Technologies, Inc.

In article <1992Dec1.143910.23268@exu.ericsson.se> exuhag@exu.ericsson.se writes:
>Michael Marshall writes:
>>
>>Is there a language that exists called FIFTH?
>>I think I once read a parody on programming languages which mentioned a  
>>FIFTh, but this was a pun on FORTH.
>>Is there a REAL FIFTH????
>
>It's a variant of Forth with a 32-bit stack (no need for a double
>wordset), modules, and true compilation.  The version in the SIMTEL
>msdos.forth directory is very old so I assumed that it was a
>discontinued product (I remember seeing magazine ads for it five or
>six years ago).  But I have talked to one of the developers and
>Fifth is apparently alive and well on the IBM PC and Amiga.  The

I'm not aware of a Fifth on the Amiga, and in fact, know of no other
commercially available versions other than JForth (the only other
commercial one WAS Multi-Forth by Creative Solutions, but they
didn't hold out, went off the market a couple years ago.

If anyone DOES know of another commercially available Forth,
PLEASE let me know.  (really available, not vaporware).
I'd really like to see what someone is going to compete with JForth with.

BTW, JForth is a 32-bit subroutine-threaded Forth with user-settable
word length for what gets compiled inline and what gets called.

And even though it's 32-bit, it includes a double-word set...
that's 64 bits!!!


Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
From: anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl)
Subject: Threading speed
Organization: Technische Universitaet Wien
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 14:23:51 GMT

Some new results on the threading speeds of various processors:

					gcc	sub-
Machine			Processor	version	routine	direct	indir.	switch
DECStation 5000/125	R3000 25MHz	2.2.2	19.8s	17.7s	25.8s	46.5s
HP/Apollo 425		68040 25MHz	2.2.2	38.3s+	22.3s	30.1s	63.5s
HP/Apollo 720		HP-PA 50MHz	2.3.2	15.54s	10.99s	15.05s	19.74s
SPARCStation 1		Cypress 20MHz	2.2.2	31.2s	33.2s	47.9s	73.6s
486			486DX2 50Mhz	2.2.2d	20.3s*	14.4s	14.6s	21.5s

+manually unoptimized to become realistic
*with -fomit-frame-pointer; otherwise: 34.6s

The benchmark consists of a loop that contains nine NEXTs and a
looping instruction (a termination test and a jump back for subroutine
threaded code), i.e. it primarily measures NEXT speed. This loop is
executed 10,000,000 times (resulting in 100,000,000 NEXTs and a bit of
overhead). It fits completely into the caches of the measured
machines.

I posted the code a few months ago. If you are interested, I will mail
it to you.

The numbers are user times measured with the "time" command. The
assembly code generated by the GNU C Compiler was inspected and found
realistic, with one exception: I had to unoptimize the assembly code
for subroutine threading on the 68040, since the compiler allocated
the address of the function "next" to a register.

Thanks to Bernd Paysan for the values on the SPARCStation and the HP 700.
Bernd does not know whether the SPARCStation is a 1 or 2; I guess from
its slowness that it's a SPARCStation 1. Thanks to Franz Puntigam for
the values on the 486.

- anton
-- 
M. Anton Ertl                    Some things have to be seen to be believed
anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at Most things have to be believed to be seen
From: LIN001CI@BRUNB.BITNET (Daniel Sobral)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Redirecting Output in F-PC
Date: 18 Dec 92 18:59:53 GMT
Reply-To: FIGI-L%BRUSPVM.BITNET@cmsa.Berkeley.EDU
Distribution: world
Organization: The Internet

I have just typed some experimental code in F-PC, and before typing it
in a file I started to think if there wasn't any way to redirect the SEE
output to a file. Well, it seems obvious to me that there must be a way.
Have anyone done it before? How?

                                 (8-DCS)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
From: John_Somerville@mindlink.bc.ca (John Somerville)
Subject: Re: forth+
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 06:45:39 GMT

I don't think that there is much of a problem with people being minimalists
providing they do not have a hidden agenda: protecting what they have
developed with no risk of change. FORTH is an excellent language, but few
people are willing to pay for it. The FORTH community has to get rid of the
roll your own mentality, which I really don't understand. I can't write
low-level stuff any where near as good as some of the big guns out there, how
many can?

I regularly use Pascal, Basic, AWL, Prolog, and I have found the interpreters
and compilers lacking in each of these, (Prolog has been the worst). So far
if I apply myself I can write anything in FORTH that I could in any of the
other languages, the difference is largely a matter of convenience.
Conversely I can write anything that I have written in FORTH in any of the
other languages. The differences are: 1) Many algorithms are much more
understandable in FORTH, 2) in FORTH, a bug in the compiler can be repaired.

FORTH suffers most in that its code is not portable, for a lot of the PD
stuff is poorly documented, (Prolog is the best for portability). I can only
conclude that we need a standard, and that the FORTH community should support
those vendors who support the standard. I don't know if my preferred vendor
will support the standard, or will supply a prelude; but I hope so.

So to conclude:
        1) We need a standard to communicate effectively with one another.
        2) We have to support vendors, for some (many) of us do not have the
           talent to write effective implementations.
        3) We need implementors who are willing to be progressive even if it
m            means turfing their old implementations. If they insist in
remaining
           dinosaurs they will suffer the same fate.
regards john
--
john somerville B.C. Hydro
affiliations FIG Forth Interest Group
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
From: John_Somerville@mindlink.bc.ca (John Somerville)
Subject: Re: e-mail address needed
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 04:10:01 GMT

Jack works at BCIT, British Columbia Institute of Technology. Offhand I can't
recall his address, but he pops in here regularly. If you have no luck, drop
me a line, I speak to him often.

regards john
--
john somerville B.C. Hydro
affiliations FIG Forth Interest Group
From: dashiell@NADC.NAVY.MIL ("A. Kaniss")
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: e-mail address needed
Date: 14 Dec 92 20:16:48 GMT
Reply-To: FIGI-L%BRUSPVM.BITNET@cmsa.Berkeley.EDU
Distribution: world
Organization: The Internet

Does anybody know jack brown's e-mail address?
Last I knew he was working in british columbia at
barnaby university?

jude <dashiell@nadc.nadc.navy.mil>
From: LIN001CI@BRUNB.BITNET (Daniel Sobral)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Re: FORTH for the Mac
Date: 12 Dec 92 20:14:58 GMT
Reply-To: FIGI-L%BRUSPVM.BITNET@cmsa.Berkeley.EDU
Organization: The Internet

On Sun, 6 Dec 1992 05:35:38 -0400 Roderick Pemberton said:
>      Is anyone familiar with an archive/ftp site where I can download the
>FORTH programming language?

SIMTEL20. Try:
TELL LISTSERV@RPIECS.BITNET /pdget pd:<msdos.forth>00-index.txt ascii

                              (8-DCS)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
From: jax@well.sf.ca.us (Jack J. Woehr)
Subject: Re: ANS Forth
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 05:35:13 GMT

In <9212152042.AA17346@nettlerash.berkeley.edu> kpjeacle@MATHS.TCD.IE writes:

>Hi, I'm afraid I can't help you as I am looking for the same information
>as you! Can you let me know if you find out where the latest ANS Forth
>specs are?

	dpANS-4 is in the hands of the X3J14 Technical Committee.

	there may be a review of dpANS-5 after January.

	you can read about the draft proposed standard in my book

	_Forth: the New Model_, M&T Books, 1992, ISBN 1-55851-277-2,
available in January at your favorite bookstore.

	Longtime jaxfanz, please note new title of book. I wrote it,
the lawyers re-wrote it :-)

		=jax=
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth,comp.realtime