From: jcho@nmsu.EDU (CHO)
Subject: Re: TANGENT Re: U2's de-nomination
Organization: New Mexico State University, Las Cruces, NM
	<JCHO.92Sep28114949@dante.nmsu.EDU>
	<1992Sep30.123341.3919@spider.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 17:41:51 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.123341.3919@spider.co.uk> alisonjw@spider.co.uk (Alison J Wyld) writes:

[Stuff on when we should rebuke/discern deleted]
   

> >Where does it say that in the Bible???  If this is the case, then missionary
> >work is totally unjust (and in some cases it has been).  People who go
> >out over seas and begin rebuking a people for their sins without getting to
> >know them (each and everyone personally).  

>   Well I think that is the case.  I do not think you can rebuke a
>   society until you have lived in it and know it, and I do not think you
>   can rebuke a person you do not first know and love.

I think you might be wrong here.  I believe God can provide discernment
when needed.  Many times people follow your route...but sometimes I feel
the Lord saying somethingn like, "Get to know me...my ways, my love...
and all things will be clear."  In other words, by knowing Him, serving
Him...we do not need to know someone all the time to be able to discern.
Through our knowledge and relationship with our God...the wisdom to
discern and rebuke come.  Not that this is applicable in all cases, because
certainly we have had many who have unjustly condemned others. But, the
Spirit does not need human intelligence to rebuke sin.  Our lives, when
totally living for Him...are so spiritually sensitive (IMHO), that times
we will just know.

 >>What about Paul and his letters?
 >>Do you think he knew every single person in all those churches? Yet he 
 >>rebukes them, judging that they are bickering among each other..etc..etc.
 >>You don't have to know them or fellowship them to know whats going on...

 > Paul either know the churches personally, had received letters from
 > them asking advice, or had received information from people he know
 > well and who's judgement he trusted (Timothy, Epaphrus, Appollos,
 > Pricilla and her husband etc.)  I think that when we judge, it would
 > be good to test our knowledge of the situation by these standards

Still, if I may point out, by your assumptions....it was heresay that Paul
used to make his discernments.  I personally believe Paul observed them
first hand...was convicted by the Spirit of what was going on and out
of love told those in the different churches their faults.  I believe he
didn't have to spend time know the people or each person individually 
to make his discernments... But, in the Spirit, his perceptions were
much enhanced.

 > >Do we need to know a prostitute personally to know that they are sinning?

 > We need to know him/her personally to know why s/he made that choice -
 > to feed the kids, for fear of a pimp...  I'm not saying here that
 > prostitution is right - but how can you tell someone they are a
 > sinner, without being in a position to help them deal with the
 > concequences of ceasing that sin (providing alternative employment,
 > getting pimp arrested, whatever...)

Well, discernment does not always require you to know why they sinned.
In many cases, I think it doesn't really matter...no matter what the excuse
is.  Why he/she made the choice is beside the point.  We are instructed to
love and to do it abundantly...no questions asked.  In other words, we
need no explanation.  Our rebuking of others should be tempered with our
compassion for them as well... If they are sinning...they need to know
that they are wrong...that there is hope, another solution....they need
to know this now...not tommorrow (might be too late).  This is a touchy
subject because I know I've heard horror stories of how people have used 
the same thought process to forcefully push someone into Christianity.
All I can say is that they had the right idea, but maybe the wrong actions.
If the person we rebuke rebukes us back...we can either ask for forgiveness
(out of the realization that we were wrong) or continue to pray for them
and in some cases, persist.  Just my thoughts.


>   Just some food for thought.

>   Alison

							JCHO@nmsu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian