HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: brian@ucsd.edu (Brian Kantor)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Giving Blood! "Gimme that thing, I'll do it myself"
Date: 16 Oct 92 11:34:22 GMT
Organization: The Avant-Garde of the Now, Ltd.
NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu

A while back, one pleasant evening about 3 am whilst I was lying in the
ER waiting for the Demerol to arrive, a representative of local law
enforcement brought in a prisoner, apparently one with a bad habit of
injecting himself with various controlled substances.

This unfortunate soul was in a bad way, and the physicians attending him
were attempting to get a blood sample.  From what I could observe, they
were unable to find a vein in his arms, legs, or neck that were unscarred
enough for them to use, and they finally went for one in the groin.

Shortly afterwards, they rushed the unfortunate off to one of the ORs,
and a little while later I became unaware of much going on around me,
so I don't know how it turned out.  Just another night in a big-city
hospital, I imagine.

I'm glad my arm veins work just fine.  I'd find it unsettling to have
a nurse with a pocketfull of vacutainers and a needle wandering around
near MY goolies, no matter how skilled he was.
	- Brian
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: dlb@fanny.wash.inmet.com (David Barton)
Subject: Re: Starting an alternative medicine newsgroup
Followup-To: sci.med
Organization: Intermetrics Inc., Washington Division, USA
	<1992Oct12.020611.15081@news.Hawaii.Edu>
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 17:15:54 GMT

In article <1992Oct12.020611.15081@news.Hawaii.Edu>
lady@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Lee Lady) writes:

   These are horrifying stories and I would certainly like to see a really
   workable solution to make sure such things don't happen.  I will also
   point out that most proponents of alternative therapies have horror
   stories of their own about people who have been allegedly harmed by
   conventional medicine.  For instance, chiropractors talk about people
   who have been permanently injured by inappropriate orthopedic surgery.

   The fact is that many ordinary people don't know who to believe.  The
   proponents of conventional medicine claim to be speaking on a basis of
   science but a reading of the discussions here in sci.med seems to
   indicate that they are actually operating out of a belief system to the
   effect that all alternative approaches are bad.  Certainly that's the
   conclusion I come to, based first of all on the very sweeping
   non-factual attacks here on all conceivable alternative approaches.
   And based secondly on the attitude that the absence of research on
   a treatment is adequate grounds for calling that treatment
   ineffective.  (People like myself are indebted to Sean McLinden for
   having explained this.)

I actually don't believe this.  Perhaps my experience is unusual, but
I have yet to come across a doctor who will actively discourage me
from trying something that in his opinion was not harmful.  In general,
medical professionals have a tremendous respect for the powers of the
mind.  They may have some doubts concerning whether this is worth the
money, but that is my decision.

What seems to make the blood boil (and I agree with this) is when
alternative approaches are used to the exclusion of medical advice and
treatment.  This is disasterous.  It kills people.  Any alternative
practitioner that I find, or hear of, that recommends against
simultaneous treatment gets short shrift from me.  I run away.  Fast.

What works, works.  Even if the connection between the treatment and
the "cure" was pure temporal coincidence (fairly common, I'm sure) the
beliefs set up may be helpful next time.  However, when this takes the
place of responsible medical treatment, watch out.

Yes, sometimes normal medical treatments exacerbate the situation.
That is what second opinions are for.  I have also never had a doctor
or medical professional object to a second opinion.  When things go
wrong, in spite of second opinions, it does not show that medical
practice is somehow less effective (or even "only as effective) as
alternative approaches.  It only shows that nothing works all the
time, and nothing is benign all the time.

Life is a crap shoot, folks.  Sometimes you lose, even when the odds
are way over in your favor.

					Dave Barton
					dlb@hudson.wash.inmet.com
From: bonnie@nmsu.edu (Bonnie Hargrave)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Christian Science Folly (was Re: Attention Deficit Disorder Resources)
Date: 9 Oct 92 17:42:25 GMT
	<1992Oct5.125428.5866@newstand.syr.edu>
	<1992Oct6.214650.21835@cbfsb.cb.att.com>
	<1992Oct7.025334.14941@beaver.cs.washington.edu>
Organization: Computing Research Lab

In article <1992Oct7.025334.14941@beaver.cs.washington.edu> walkup@cs.washington.edu (Elizabeth Walkup) writes:

   Actually, if you think of it in its historical context, the whole Christian 
   Science ideal of correcting medical problems by correcting one's thinking 
   made a certain amount of sense:  the founder said she thought people ought
   to go to the dentist and ought to have bones set.  At the time, these were
   just about the only medical procedures that would do you much good.

   The problem is, of course, that the whole religion is living in the past,
   but then that's not all that uncommon with religions.

Well, Elizabeth, you got it partly right, and I'm sure Christian
Scientists would thank you for the correct portion of your post, even
though they might have worded it differently.

However,  speaking as a one-time practicing Christian Scientist, I
don't recall reading _anything_ in the Mrs. Eddy's writings where she
actually counselled followers to go to the dentist and to have bones
set.  ALL matters of healing -- whether through spiritual or material
means -- are left to the discretion of the individual.  There are
cases on record of Christian Scientists who have had complete healings of
broken bones and of dental problems such as decayed teeth.

Christian Scientist _are_ instructed to abide by state and federal
laws concerning health care and care of children.

Whether or not the religion is "out of date" has nothing to do with
any recommendations as to which type of materia medica they may turn
to.  I don't feel the religion _is_ out of date.  On the other hand,
how people actually _practice_ any religion may vary, and Christian
Science, as any other religion, has had its share of problems with the
humans who attempt to follow it.

Bonnie


--

		bonnie@nmsu.edu         
		Bonnie Hargrave        
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: carl@aoa.aoa.utc.com (Carl Witthoft)
Subject: Re: Excess Of Vitamin C?
Organization: Adaptive Optics Associates
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 16:33:07 GMT

In article <1992Oct11.044944.24588@eskimo.celestial.com> nanook@eskimo.celestial.com (Robert Dinse) writes:
>     I've been taking 1 gram per day for several years now and I've noticed a
>marked decrease in the number of colds that I experience.  It may be that I
>still have as many and they just don't reach a noticable level, and if that's
>the case, well that's ok too.  I feel better, vitamin C is cheap, and if I
>corode a comode but miss a cold, it's worth it to me!
x
Hey do I have a deal for you: I can sell you a substance, guaranteed
organic and all natural, and guaranteed to be a basic substance which
ancestors of human beings ingested in greater quantity than
humans now ingest.  And it'll do just as much for colds as
the vitamin C you're taking.
This is clearly a way for me to get rich.
It should be obvious to all that there are several such "substances"
and that the magic of the placebo effect plus the "power of expected
results," so to speak, is all that's going on here.



-- 
Carl Witthoft @ Adaptive Optics Associates
aoa!carl@bbn.com  carl@aoa.utc.com
54 CambridgePark Drive, Cambridge,MA 02140 617-864-0201
"My Karma just ran over my Dogma!"
From: markr@sound.cts.com (Mark B. Reinhold)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Bernie Siegel & Cancer
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 19:17:36 PDT
Organization: SDCT 1-619-461-3415

ron@horizon.com (Ron McDaniels) writes:
> in the registration fee because we had traveled such a long distance. when I
> told them that the seminar was a gift from our church as were the travel
> expenses (I was out of work at the time), they waived the fee altogether. The
> is little evidence that Dr. Siegel gets rich off his seminars.

I would like to thank you for sharing this. I have spent the last year
going through a seperating of my family since my wife decided to leave
after 13 years of marriage and one son.

Bernie's meditation tapes and books have been a great help to me in
consolidating my emotions and getting through this. 

I also was suffering with cronic bronchitis during this period. It was
serious enough that I lost 35 lbs in one month.( I would cough until I
would throw up; not a pleasent experience)

Bernie talks about asking your self "Why do I need this desease". After
thinking about this, and finally telling myself that I don't need, I
started to improve. It is now finally gone, and I would love to hear
Bernie if he comes anywhere near the greater San Diego Area.

I thought that ECAPS was a love than for money, and you have confirmed
this for me.

thanks

Newsgroups: sci.med
From: yozzo@watson.ibm.com (Ralph Yozzo)
Subject: Re: Giving Blood! "Gimme that thing, I'll do it myself"
Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1992 01:39:14 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

In article <BvrJL2.3H2@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk> jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin) writes:
>
>In my experience it's always been the other way round: the "expert" fumbles
>and the nurse gets it right.  With this sort of motor skill, you don't need
>a postgraduate degree, you need practice.  Most nurses get more of that than
>doctors do.
>
>-- 
>--  Jack Campin    room G092, Computing Science Department, Glasgow University,
By "expert", I mean the person in a hospital that spends practically
the entire day going from room to room drawing blood.  You know,
the "walking vampire".  You probably cannot get more practice
than this.  


-- 
Ralph Yozzo (yozzo@watson.ibm.com)  
From the beautiful and historic Mid-Hudson Valley area of NY state
From: doyle+@pitt.edu (Howard R Doyle)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Peroxide and the bubbling reaction?
Date: 13 Oct 92 00:49:22 GMT
Organization: Pittsburgh Transplant Institute

In article <Bw0vp7.n2J@unix.amherst.edu> akcobb@unix.amherst.edu (acapella) writes:
>Ralph Yozzo (yozzo@watson.ibm.com) wrote:
>: 
>: As a followup question, (I realize that there is probably no ironclad rule.)
>: how much peroxide should one pour on a cut?  
>: And how often should it be done?  For example, should it be done once
>: or every day for the first few days while the cut heals.
>: 
>: And also what are the consequences of putting both iodine and peroxide
>: on a cut?

>
>Recently I had to get stiches for a large cut on my arm.  I told
>the ER doctor that I had put both H2O2 and Betadine (an iodine
>solution) on the wound in an effort to keep it clean, and he said
>that actually I shouldn't have done that.  No great harm done, but
>he said that people are beginning to be discouraged from pouring
>either of those directly on cuts--apparently they kill the cells
>as well as the germs and cause slower healing.
>


Very few areas in surgery are as influenced by one's religious beliefs
as wound care. Get 20 surgeons in a room and ask them how to manage a
given wound and you will get 40 answers.

The traditional methods, dipping limbs and whole patients in solutions
that sting, are very rarely supported by any experimental evidence.
But is hard to eradicate certain traditions (I hope to God Herman Rubin
is not reading this). 

Take iodine, for instance. It is a great antiseptic. It also kills 
everything else in sight. So it makes sense to use it to scrub intact
skin prior to surgery, but not to put into open wounds (you see, fibroblasts
are our friends, we want them to live long and prosper). The same can be
said about something called Dakins solution. It is very popular. It is also
just watered down Clorox with a little bicarbonate. But it smells good. And
it makes stinking wounds smell good. And bugs don't stand a chance when you
pour it onto something, but neither do other living cells, unless you dilute
the sodium hypochlorite to 0.5% (full strength Dakins is 12.5%).

I'm not convinced that there is anything better than plain saline-soaked
dressings for uncomplicated wounds. But that doesn't make us feel like we
are doing something, so we go for things that burn, or stain the clothes,
or smell good, or, better yet, bubble.

Now an infected wound is a different story. The infection has to be controlled,
or it will never heal. But this is better done by cleaning the wound 
surgically (i.e., debridement) and applying topical antibiotics, than by
cauterizing it, whether by chemical or thermal means.

As for burns, well that is a special type of wound that requires topical
antibiotics from the start. But we really don't want to get into that.


------------------------

Howard Doyle
doyle+@pitt.edu


Newsgroups: sci.med
From: yozzo@watson.ibm.com (Ralph Yozzo)
Subject: Peroxide and the bubbling reaction?
Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1992 15:21:50 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

Why is it that peroxide bubbles when it is placed on a cut?

(I've been told that it is a sign that it is killing germs,
but I think that it is a reaction with the blood.)

-- 
Ralph Yozzo (yozzo@watson.ibm.com)  
From the beautiful and historic Mid-Hudson Valley area of NY state
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: hughes@gary.enet.dec.com (Gary Hughes - VMS Development)
Subject: Re: Sinus Headaches/Migraines
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 15:01:27 GMT


In article <1992Oct8.234109.376@actrix.gen.nz>, Pat.Churchill@bbs.actrix.gen.nz writes...
>I find I am often sensitive to certain aromas and odours when I have a
>migraine.  The smell of certain strong perfumes (those really heavy

Likewise. Indeed the sensitivity to certain aromas is often the first
noticeable warning sign (I tend not to notice the irritability until it is too
late).

Once while stuck in Geneva airport with a mgraine and a couple of hours to
kill, I decided to visit the duty free shop and see if all their perfumes hit
me the same way. Amazing the desperation that airport waiting lounges can
instill.

I found that there were a couple that did not bother me, all very expensive.
Things like natural flower esssence or Chanel. I suspect that it is probably
something in the 'base' rather that is bothering me. I speculate that there is
some very expensive ingrediant that most perfumiers substiture with something
cheaper. Whatever, the objective was to find any perfume that my SO could use
without bothering me.

I also avoid using any perfumed product (detergents, tissues etc). Whatever
they use is deadly if I'm heading towards a migraine.

gary
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: lindae@netcom.com
Subject: Re: balance disorders
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 18:34:52 GMT

In article <BvwvqA.9zo@world.std.com> rdg@world.std.com (Robin Goldstein) writes:
>ac10+@andrew.cmu.edu (Alison Rebecca Colman) writes:
>
>>Hello,
>
>>I have a few simple questions. One, do balance disorders exist? If so,
>>what are they technically called, and what (in general) causes them? I
>>Alison Colman
>
>Balance disorders EXIST!  I should know... I have been dealing with my
>own for over 17 years.  For information, I STRONGLY recommend you contact
>the Vestibular Disorders Association, P.O. Box 4467, Portland, Oregon
>97208-4467 Telephone (503) 229-7705 
>-- 
>Richard D. Goldstein


I second this advice!!  The Vestibular Disorders Association in Portland
is an EXCELLENT Resource of information.  I've suffered with a balance
disorder for almost 8 years and I've done LOTS of research on the topic.
Make sure to request a book called "The Balancing Act" from the Vestibular
Disorders Assoc.  It's got lots of great information for someone who
is just beginning to deal with this problem.  It also has helpful tips
for the families of those dealing with vestibular (or other balance disorders).

I personally have tons of literature on the topic.  If you need more info.,
please send e-mail to lindae@netcom.com

Linda
From: linda@frcs.Alt.ZA (Linda Jacobson)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Pet has cancer - issues with contagion
Date: 6 Oct 92 16:12:10 GMT
Article-I.D.: frcs.1992Oct6.161210.14660
Organization: Onderstepoort School of Veterinary Science, University of Pretoria

Thus spake geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks):

> If you are concerned, make sure your family is
> taught the importance of not smoking, which is by far the greatest
> cause of lung cancer in humans.

(And possibly in their secondary smoker pet dogs, too.)

Linda
From: pburch@roc.mbcr.bcm.tmc.edu (Paula Burch)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: cats (was Re: Attention Deficit Disorder Resources)
Date: 7 Oct 1992 20:15:34 GMT
Organization: Baylor College of Medicine, Houston, Tx
Distribution: world
Reply-To: pburch@roc.mbcr.bcm.tmc.edu (Paula Burch)
NNTP-Posting-Host: roc.mbcr.bcm.tmc.edu
Originator: pburch@roc.mbcr.bcm.tmc.edu


In article <1av584INNfhe@network.ucsd.edu>, brian@ucsd.edu (Brian Kantor) writes:
|> yasu@ll.mit.edu (Alan Yasutovich) writes:
|> >	....I mean if you are allergic to cats
|> >	do you keep cats and take antihistimines, or get rid of the
|> >	cats.
|> >	This is simple.
|> 
|> You take antihistamines and keep the cats, obviously.

Why take drugs unnecessarily? Just wash the cat! Monthly (some say weekly) 
baths dramatically reduce the allergenicity of cats. Until the cat 
becomes resigned to its fate, it's best to have two people collaborate 
in the project. Several months may be required until maximal effect is 
seen. Get rid of the carpet if you're really allergic.

Some people use dandruff shampoo on the cat, others say that no soap 
is necessary at all.

Reference:

AU de-Blay-F.  Chapman-M-D.  Platts-Mills-T-A.
IN Department of Medicine, University of Virginia, Charlottesville.
TI Airborne cat allergen (Fel d I).  Environmental control with the cat
   in situ
SO Am-Rev-Respir-Dis.  1991 Jun.  143(6).  P 1334-9.
AB In a house with a cat, furnishings, air-exchange rate, and the cat are
   all thought to influence airborne cat allergen.  We carried out
   experiments using two separate rooms, modifying the environment,
   applying different cleaning techniques, and washing the cat, to
   analyze these sources and to design methods of reducing airborne
   allergen.  Airborne measurements were made with a cascade impactor
   and a two-site monoclonal antibody-based immunometric assay for cat
   allergen Fel d I. Within 30 min of entering a 30-m3 clean room the
   cat itself was found to increase airborne Fel d I by 30 to 90 ng/m3.
   Following serial weekly washing of the cat this increase was reduced
   to less than or equal to 7 ng/m3, with a more marked fall in small
   particles (less than or equal to 2.5 microns diameter) from 9.5 to
   less than or equal to 0.4 ng/m3.  To study the influence of the room
   design we kept the cat in a room of 33 m3 for 20 h/day and modified
   the room.  This room was studied with or without furnishings and with
   air-exchange rates of 0.2 or 2.4 air changes per hour.  Both low
   ventilation rate and furnishings increased the level of Fel d I
   measured 1 h after the cat was removed.  However, the most striking
   finding was that the carpet accumulates cat allergen at approximately
   100 times the level for a polished floor, that is, approximately 100
   micrograms/day Fel d I compared with approximately 0.5 micrograms/day
   Fel d I.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS).  Author-abstract.

Paula Burch
pburch@bcm.tmc.edu
From: nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu (David A. Nye MD)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Cluster Migraines
Date: 11 Oct 92 21:03:32 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin Eau Claire

In article <1992Oct9.172248.27163@hellgate.utah.edu>, rfrazier%peruvian.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Robert Frazier) writes:
> 
> 	I have an aunt who has cluster migraines.  Anyone who has experience
> with these knows, that they can be completely dehabilitating.  I am looking
> for some information to help her.  Her migraines start in her eyes, and
> spread through her jaw and teeth.
> 
> 	She has tried these pain killers without success:  (spelling is iffy)
> 		Ferinol
> 		Codeine
> 		Ergamar
> 		Cafragot
> 
> 	She has modified her diet (no MSG etc) with some success
> 
> 	Here are other recomendations she has heard of and would like more
> information about:
> 	Oxygen
> 	Diet
> 	Ice
> 	Stadad - nasal spray pain killer
> 	Some form of injection specific to migraine treatment. It is made
> 	by Glaxo Holdings and is available in Europe, but not U.S.
> 	Indoral/Beta Blockers
> 
> 
> 	Any general or specific info or experiences people can relate to me
> would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> 	Thanks,
> 	R. Todd Frazier
> 	rfrazier@peruvian.utah.edu

It is hard to make treatment recommendations without having had the
opportunity to examine your aunt, but everything you mention has
some utility in some patients who have either migraine or cluster
headache.  In my experience, it is almost always possible to get
both of these kinds of headaches under good control, but it may 
take a lot of time and fiddling with medications.  She needs to see
a neurologist if she hasn't, preferably one with a special interest
in headaches.  I suspect she hasn't, as "cluster migraine" is not
a term neurologists generally use.
From: dfield@zeus.calpoly.edu (Dan Field (InfoSpunj))
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Giving Blood: "Gimme that thing, I'll do it myself!"
Date: 9 Oct 92 22:00:47 GMT
Organization: California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo


     I'm a phlebotomist at my university's health center.  I'v been joking
around that the next time I need blood drawn, I'm going to do it myself...
Has anyone ever actually done this?  I think the hardest part would be the
tourniquette.  Any stories?         

-- 

                                -Daniel R. Field
                                 dfield@nike.calpoly.edu
From: rind@binoc.bih.harvard.edu (David Rind)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: The best way to treat Hyperthyroidism ?
Date: 7 Oct 92 19:56:33 GMT
Organization: Beth Israel Hospital, Harvard Medical School, Boston Mass., USA

In article <1992Oct7.143720.22747@nuscc.nus.sg> med50003@nusunix1.nus.sg
 (WANSAICHEONG KHIN-LIN) writes:
>Hyperthyroidism (specifically Graves disease) is really a clinical
>diagnosis combined with a T4 level and additional autoantibody tests. It
>does not require a scan.

A thyroid scan (uptake) is useful in a patient who is acutely hyperthyroid
in differentiating Graves disease from subacute thyroiditis (increased
uptake in the former, decreased in the latter) since the TFT's may
be identical.  The uptake may also help guide the treatment of Graves
by assisting in the estimate of how much radioactive iodine to use if
RAI ablation is planned.
-- 
David Rind
rind@binoc.bih.harvard.edu
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: jelia@world.std.com (Joe J Elia)
Subject: ibogaine
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 13:02:41 GMT

For an amusing anecdote about ibogaine, see Hunter Thompson's
_Fear & Loathing on the Campaign Trail_ (circa 1973). He 
portrays Edmund Muskie as a user and describes in fair
detail what the uses of the drug are. He was kidding about
Ed Muskie ... really.

-- 
Joe Elia <jelia@world.std.com>     | "This is this."  -- DeNiro  |
Newsgroups: sci.med