From: jsm@fc.hp.com
 (John Marvin)
Subject: Re: Caller ID
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 07:56:56 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Workstation Kernel, Ft. Collins, CO
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.1 PL6]

Dan Zerkle (zerkle@toadflax.cs.ucdavis.edu) wrote:
: In article <153.31651@incc.com> jerry@incc.com (Jerry Rocteur) writes:
: > Unless you are up to no good, when would you ever want to call
: > someone and not want them to know who you are ???
: 
: Calling a suicide/battered woman/drug abuse/etc. help line.
: 
: Call-in radio shows.
: 
: Anonymous police tip lines.
: 
: Your old friend, who can't know where you live because you are in a
: witness protection program.
: 
: A child's mother, to let her know that her teenager was seen buying
: drugs on the corner (better this way than the police).
: 
: Your ex-husband, so you can talk to your daughter who lives there, but you
: don't want him to know where you live.
: 
: Any business that will record your phone number and use it for cold
: calls later to try to sell you a Ronkomatic Turnip Twaddler.  Then
: sell it to every other company that comes along.

All very good reasons to block your number when making that call. I agree
that people should have that option, either by default if they choose that
default, or by entering a code for a specific call. That is what is being
implemented here in Colorado, and I have no problem with it. However, If
I get Caller ID, I want to know the difference between whether the phone
company could not deliver the number for some reason, and when someone is
deliberately blocking the number. I believe that this will be the case.
Personally, I will never answer a call from someone who has blocked their
ID, since I would consider it rude. In fact, I intend to set up a home
voice mail system based on caller ID. It will not even ring my phone if
the ID is blocked. The caller will just get a message stating that I don't
answer calls with the ID blocked, and that they can leave a message.

: 
: The reason telephone companies want caller id so bad has nothing to do
: with the welfare of their customers.  They just want money.  They have
: big plans for all sorts of service packages they can sell.  All of
: them hinge on caller id.

Yes, and a lot of those sales will be to private residences.

: 
: Your phone number is quite valuable.  With caller id, once you call a
: business for any reason, they'll have it.  They can call you back to
: try and sell you things.  They can look it up in a database and cross
: reference it with your address.  They can sell it to direct-mail
: companies with any information you may have revealed in your call.
: This is the reason there is such a big lobbying push in many states to
: legalize caller id, along with slick television ads.  Again, it has
: nothing to do with consumers well-being, and everything to do with
: money.

Don't forget that businesses can already get your number if you call an
800 number. This has been available for years. And you don't even have
the option of blocking the number.

: 
: Remember the CD-ROMs that Lotus (I think) was making with data on
: every household they could?  You couldn't see or correct your own
: record, but any old business would have no problems getting lots of
: data about you.  With your telephone number, any company has a unique
: identifier of your household.  Databases already exist that will give
: your name, address, and so forth from your phone number.  Of course,
: with your phone number so widely available, much more information
: could be put in these sorts of databases.
: 
: My credit card company makes more money selling my address to various
: direct-mail companies than they do charging interest to me (which is
: nothing).  The next time I call up some mail-order company to find the
: latest price on modems, I don't want to be indexed, cross referenced,
: sold, filed, mailed, told I "may already be a winner," called, pestered,
: categorized, and proselytized.

You already might have been indexed, etc. If you called a mail-order company
you probably called an 800 number. An 800 customer always gets your number,
either immediately if they pay extra, or later, when they get their phone
bill.
: 
: Caller id will not really help you as a normal telephone customer.  If
: someone calls you up and starts bothering you, you can just hang up.
: If you really need to screen calls, an answering machine is much more
: effective.  If someone really wants to bother you, he or she can just
: use a pay phone, right?  Caller ID won't help you there.

Caller ID has already been shown to GREATLY reduce harassing and obscene
phone calls in states that have approved it, like N.J. Most calls of this
type are done from homes. It takes a lot more effort to go out and make the
call from a pay phone. But even if you do get calls from a pay phone, 
Caller ID gives you more options:

	1) You can see if the call is repeated from the same pay phone.
	You might be able get witnesses if you can get the location of
	the pay phone.

	2) Another service which comes along with Caller-ID is Call Blocking.
	You can block pay phones that have been used to harass you. This
	would force the person who is harassing you to keep choosing another
	pay phone. It might just be enough hassle to stop the caller.
: 
: California has it right.  The legislature has legalized caller ID, but
: has required telephone companies to provide free per-call and per-line
: blocking.  Since most people would probably get this once they found
: out the real results of caller ID, no company in California has bothered
: offering the service.

Colorado is doing this also, but U.S. West has decided to go ahead and
offer the service. As I said, I have no problem with this.
: 
: The mechanisms to protect the telephone customer are already in place.
: The campaign to legalize caller ID really isn't conducted to help
: consumers.  It's conducted to help businesses make more money, and at
: the expense of the telephone caller's privacy.

I don't think it is all that clear. It is certainly conducted so that the
phone company can make more money, and I don't have a problem with that.
I WANT to have the choice of paying for this service. I have no problem
with you having the choice of not letting me see your phone number, just
don't expect to talk live to me. Does anyone have statistics on Caller
ID from states that have approved it? I would certainly be interested
in knowing the Caller ID sales for private residence vs. business use.

I think this whole "database" issue has been blown out of proportion. The
most likely abusers, e.g. the mail order houses, already get your number,
and you can't do anything about it. I don't deny that Caller ID might
increase this type of use, but I don't see it being significant compared
to 800 number ANI. Currently, even with Caller ID, you will only be able
to get the number of people calling from your local area. Eventually you
may get long distance numbers, but not now. 800 customers get your number
no matter where you are.

Personally, I think a good analogy for Caller ID is your peep hole on
your front door. Right now, not being able to get Caller ID is the same
as not being able to install a peep hole on your front door. Once I 
install a peep hole, I would certainly consider it rude if someone covers
the peep hole with their hand when they ring the door bell. I would not
open the door, would you?

	John Marvin
	jsm@fc.hp.com