HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kane@buast7.bu.edu (Hot Young Star)
Newsgroups: ca.politics,ba.politics,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Republican Convention Organizers Not on the Ball
Date: 4 Sep 92 20:02:58 GMT
Followup-To: ca.politics
Organization: Astronomy Department, Boston University, Boston, MA, USA
Originator: kane@buast7.bu.edu

You may have already heard this, but two things happened at the RNC
last month in Houston which were ironic in light of the RNC platform
touting traditional family values and excoriating gay men, lesbians,
and bisexuals:

1. The music playing while the Bush family stood before the crowd
   for a photo-op was from "La Cage aux Folles", a musical about
   two older gay men coping with society.

2. Bush lamented that America should be more like the Waltons than
   the Simpsons. Will Geer, who played Grandpa Zebulon Walton, was
   a gay communist. Despite having married for social acceptance in
   the film and theatre community, Geer was a long-time lover of
   Harry Hay, considered by many to have begun the modern gay movement.
   At Geer's funeral, Hay chatted cattily with Geer's widow: "I had
   him first," said Harry. "Well, I had him longer!", replied the
   woman.

Brian
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
cramer@optilink.uucp (Clayton Cramer): Message-ID: <12133@optilink.UUCP>
I realize it's difficult for a person as depraved as [Brian Kane].
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
kane@{buast7,astro}.bu.edu (Hot Young Star) Astronomy Dept, Boston University,
Boston, MA 02215. True personal salvation is achieved by absolute faith in
ones true self.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Newsgroups: ca.politics
From: wayne@ultra.com (Wayne Hathaway)
Subject: Re: Prop. 13 and California's fiscal crisis
Reply-To: wayne@ultra.com (Wayne Hathaway)
Organization: Ultra Network Technologies
Distribution: ca
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 19:00:40 GMT

dbailey@wk49.nas.nasa.gov (David H. Bailey) quotes from the San Jose
Mercury News:

 > When I moved to California, 25 years ago, our state could boast the
 > best public schools.  California had the best state university and
 > community college system.  Our highway system was superb.  Our
 > criminal justice and penal systems were renowned.  Our public parks
 > were considered the best in the nation.  Now that Jarvis-Gann has
 > taken full effect, the Golden State can no longer boast even top 20
 > status in any meaningful category that measures the quality of life.

Would anybody happen to know the PERCENTAGE of state revenues that
were spent on education 25 years ago compared with today?  Likewise
for the highway system, criminal justice system, parks, and so forth.

My guess is that this percentage has DECREASED substantially, with its
share of the pie being replaced by welfare-related programs.  And if
that is in fact the case, increasing the size of the pie is *NOT* the
correct approach; adjusting the relative sizes of the slices *IS*.

    Wayne Hathaway               domain: wayne@Ultra.COM
    Ultra Network Technologies     uucp: ...!ames!ultra!wayne
    101 Daggett Drive             phone: 408-922-0100 x132
    San Jose, CA 95134              FAX: 408-433-9287
From: asylvain@felix.filenet.com (The Chipmunk)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: Economy of USA
Date: 2 Sep 92 19:34:47 GMT
            <4adn1-n.tcox@netcom.com>
            <19828@fritz.filenet.com>
            <-9hn=!p.tcox@netcom.com>
Reply-To: asylvain@fritz.filenet.com (The Chipmunk)
Distribution: ca
Organization: Foundation for the Increased Wealth of Chipmunks

Written in article <-9hn=!p.tcox@netcom.com>
 by tcox@netcom.com (Thomas Cox):

First, as to wage inflation: I still believe that categories are a
definate MUST.  Otherwise, you might as well lump PCs with Pomegranates
in determining "overall inflation."  It's certainly done, in terms of 
figuring it out an "average," but any average is incomplete by itself.

In determining "inflation," it's good to know that while Pomegranates
may be going UP in price, PCs are going DOWN.

They used to figure housing prices into "overall inflation," except that
a house is not something a person buys everyday, while a banana is.  So
sometime during the '80's, they dropped housing from their computations.
In tracking "inflation" over the years, it's helpful to take that change
into account.  It can make a dramatic difference in the result.

:> My question is this: so what's your point?
:
: _My_ point was that some of the talk of "we're in a depression" was
: unjustifiable by any data, and that a claim of "we're in a scummy mild
: little recovery" is at least maybe justifiable by some data.

There's probably some truth to this.  My opinion is that we may not be
quite in a "DEpression" just yet, but things is lookin' bleak.  This is
NOT a good time to make your boss mad.

As to whether we're in ANY sorts of recovery, scummy, mild or whatever,
remains to be seen.

The Fed is trying to stimulate the economy with loose credit.  It's an
old trick, and it's worked before.  It's typically timed to just before
getting the presidential incumbant re-elected.

It's September already, and only 2 months to go.  I wonder if it's
going to work this time.

: Also, in this posting that you've just read, my additional point is that
: some amount of unemployment is (a) inevitable and (b) economically
: valuable. 

True enough!  I hadn't thot of it those terms before, but I'm afraid I
have to agree with you.  But don't worry, I'll probably get over it.

B-{)

-- 
The Chipmunk.
Opinions are mine, void where prohibited, taxed, licensed or regulated.
It has just been discovered that research causes cancer in rats.
Newsgroups: ca.politics
From: farthing@leland.Stanford.EDU (ljf)
Subject: Re: Homosexual marriages
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 92 20:30:06 GMT

In article <1992Aug21.211732.7662@jack.sns.com> jsb@jack.sns.com (Jim Best) writes:
>        Well here we go lets open Pandora box once again. How are we going
>        to define adult????? Without starting in with that whole thread
>        again. Seems it has been discussed lately in another thread.:-)

Different states allow people to marry at different ages.  One of my
high school mates married when she was 14.  

>        So you draw the line at consenting adults I draw the line at the
>        traditional (biblical) one man, one woman.

I don't mind at all if you and your church don't want to marry a motss
couple.  I mind a hell of a lot that California doesn't allow a motss
couple to marry.

>        Just IMHO there is no alternative form of marriage. I suspect what
>        Jeff and other homosexual want are the monetary (tax) benefits
>        that the government provides to married couples. And "hey" it
>        works for me *just call it something else*

Why should we call it anything else?  If you travel abroad and meet
the love of your life, you can marry her and bring her back with you.
If a gay man or lesbian does the same, s/he can't.

>        Sorry I just will not bye the augment that homosexuals are a
>        minority group. Simply because of the lifestyle that they have
>        chosen.

I assume everyone chooses her/his religion and yet nearly all
anti-discrimination laws prohibit discrimination on the basis of
religion.

If Jews, for example, weren't allowed to marry because marriage is a
Christian sacrament, would you then say that it's the Jews' fault
because they choose to be Jews?  Or would you say that Jews can't have
a Christian marriage (not that they would want one!) but still can be
married by state laws?

I won't even touch that comment that homosexuality is a "lifestyle
choice."

>        Lets go back to our lines in the sand. Where would you draw the
>        line on lifestyles that get special consideration? After all even
>        Clayton's favorite boggy man is nothing more than a different
>        lifestyle. There is one thing I have noticed about this alternate
>        lifestyle stuff. It all has to do with some kind of perverted sex.

I have no idea what is "perverted sex."  As best I can judge,
heterosexuals, bisexuals, and homosexuals engage in the same sexual
acts with their partners.

Xref: sparky ca.politics:7299 talk.politics.misc:43065
From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: ca.politics,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Clayton, You've missed an opportunity...
Date: 31 Aug 92 17:50:39 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <193927@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov>, pdb059@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov (Paul Bartholomew) writes:
> In article <11927@optilink.UUCP>, cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
# # By the way, Wuornos was molested as a child.  She grows up to be
# # a lesbian and a murderer.  Is anyone surprised?
# 
# Yes, as a matter of fact.  By some estimates, as many as one woman in four
# is molested as a child.  By this logic, they should all be lesbians and
# murderers.
# 
# More Clayton Cramer Crap (tm).
# 
# Paul Bartholomew          |   "The time has come, the walrus said, to talk of

Where did I say that one necessarily led to the other?  Human
beings are not laboratory flasks -- drop in two chemicals, results
are guaranteed.



-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
Alcohol prohibition didn't work; drug prohibition doesn't work; gun
prohibition won't work.
Xref: sparky ca.politics:7137 talk.politics.misc:42461
From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: ca.politics,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Clayton, You've missed an opportunity...
Date: 27 Aug 92 16:14:40 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <94616@bu.edu>, kane@buast7.bu.edu (Hot Young Star) writes:
> Clayton, I'm surprised you haven't started railing on the Wuornos case
> (Wuornos is the first women scheduled to be executed in Florida since
> 1840, after her female lover implicated her in the deaths of 7 men).
> 
> After all, this is the sort of tabloid story you thrive on trying to
> make your desperate sick jabs at gay men and lesbians.
> 
> kane@{buast7,astro}.bu.edu (Hot Young Star) Astronomy Dept, Boston University,

I was aware of it.  I didn't raise it because it's a remarkably
rare sort of crime, and unlikely to be typical of anything.

By the way, Wuornos was molested as a child.  She grows up to be
a lesbian and a murderer.  Is anyone surprised?



-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
Alcohol prohibition didn't work; drug prohibition doesn't work; gun
prohibition won't work.
From: pdb059@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov (Paul Bartholomew)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: The Harrassing Phone Calls Can Stop NOW!
Date: 4 Sep 92 09:22:38 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Image Processing Lab

In article <12129@optilink.UUCP>, cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
> Or maybe I will take the collection of garbage I've been collecting
> from soc.motss and turn it over to Lou Sheldon at the Traditional
> Values Coalition and the Yes on 9 campaign in Oregon.  You know what
> powerful ammunition this stuff is for their side.

I do not condone harassing phone calls and will also call for them to stop,
but this is definitely an empty threat.  You make it sound like those groups
can't find their own ammunition, or that soc.motss has somehow managed to
hide itself from the rest of Usenet (secret plot to molest your children
uncovered by undercover net.detective--film at 11).  Get a grip, Clayton.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Bartholomew          |   "The time has come, the walrus said, to talk of
                          |    many things..."                  Lewis Carroll
pdb059@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov   |   Disclaimer:  Opinions?  What opinions?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: jsb@jack.sns.com (Jim Best)
Subject: Re: Homosexual marriages
Organization: Systems'n'Software
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 18:57:17 GMT

In article <opdjbtg@fido.asd.sgi.com> dauber@sgi.com (Jeff Dauber) writes:
>In article <1992Aug19.170114.6707@jack.sns.com> jsb@jack.sns.com (Jim Best) writes:
>
>> Well then how about marriages between a man and three or four women,
>
>Why not?
>
>
>> a woman and three or four men,
>
>Why not?
>
>> or a man and a goat, or a woman and a dog,
>
>No consent.
>
>> or you know I have this old ford I * really * love ! Humm maybe.....
>
>Now you are being silly.
>
of course see-----+
                  v 
>> The point here is if you want to destroy the institution of marriage then
>> why place any limit on it at all?
>
>Why does allowing two men or two women to get married destroy the instituation
>of marriage?
>
>> Or do you just wish to press for you own
>> personal agenda?
>
> Open your eyes, bozo, everyone is pushing their own agenda.
                  ^^^^

        What is it with you! Are you so insecure that you need to make
        personal attacks on people that disagree with you. I know this may
        be hard for you but GROW UP. JUST A LITTLE.


>I am in a monogmous long term homosexual relationship, why do I differ from a
> heterosexual couple in the same situation?

        You don't there are many unmarried heterosexual couples in long
        term relationship, so what, their not trying change the institute
        of marriage. so why are you?


>
>
> > This is just a another example of an abnormal fringe group trying to get
> > the rest of society to consider them normal!!!!!!!!!
>
> You are full of shit, asshole.

        Well this isn't the most intelligent thing you have ever said,
        or is it just the lack of vocabulary???

        What is this fixation you have with anal/feces matters? should
        I assume that it's a product of your being homosexual? Do all
        things in your life lead you to contemplate this area of the human
        anatomy. You disagree with the above statement I take it, yet all
        you can talk about in responds is the anus and excrement!!

        This is truly sad. Tell me have you thought of getting
        professional help? Well if not I would suggest that you at the
        very least consider getting some very serious couch time. Could be
        all you need is some rest. Then perhaps we could continue with
        a civilized conversation. Or if you wish I guess we could continue
        just insult one another and have no exchange of idea's/opinions at
        all.
>
> FWA

___________________________________________________________________________
                                   \ /        \  /
I had a seat in the very first row +-------------+ 
I heard it all on my radio         | 0 -(....) 0 |    uunet!jack!jsb
                                   +-------------+                         
___________________________________________________________________________


Newsgroups: ca.politics
From: leem@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov (Lee Mellinger)
Subject: Re: Activist shot at Berkeley Chancellor's home
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory (NASA)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 16:53:14 GMT

In article <397@vega.iii.com> rhockins@enrico.tmc.edu (Russell Hockins) writes:
:In article <1992Sep1.190134.3372@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov> leem@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov (Lee Mellinger) writes:
:>In article <394@vega.iii.com> rhockins@enrico.tmc.edu (Russell Hockins) writes:
:>
:>Side handle batons come in two forms, high tensil strength aluminum
:>and high strength plastic.  I never seen nor heard of Kevlar batons
:>and I hold a POST certificate for side handle batons.
:>
:Just because you have never seen or heard of a Kevlar baton does not mean they
:do not exist. :-)
:
:Maybe Kevlar is a type of plastic, I don't know for sure.  In that event your
:high strength plastic batons may well be Kevlar.  I for one have seen one.
:They do *look* like plastic.  Maybe they have not reached civilian services
:yet.
:| Russell Hockins             |  This civilization is recyclable             |

Three things: 1)the only baton made of plastic is made by Monodock and
is made of polycarbonite, no kevlar is used, 2) Kevlar is an armide
fiber that is VERY expensive, loses strength rapidly when wet and
would serve no useful purpose in a baton (dent the baton on bone?!)
3) and I am speaking of the public law enforcement services.

Lee


|Lee F. Mellinger                 Caltech/Jet Propulsion Laboratory - NASA
|4800 Oak Grove Drive, Pasadena, CA 91109 818/354-1163  FTS 792-1163     
|leem@jpl-devvax.JPL.NASA.GOV
Newsgroups: ca.politics
From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: ca.politics,alt.politics.correct
Subject: Re: Broken laws and Civil unrest [Concluding Part]
Keywords: Laws, Civil Unrest, LA
Date: 4 Sep 92 18:48:57 GMT
Followup-To: ca.politics
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <adams.715544282@cobra.Stanford.EDU>, adams@cobra.Stanford.EDU (Allen Adams) writes:
> A very interesting posting from cdt@sw.stratus.com followed 
> which gave examples of 'quotes' from persons in our past and current 
> history who said jury nullification is OK, and since the people quoted 
> were of some notoriety, therefore these are 'truths' and therefore 
> practicing jury nullification is OK.  As I implied in an earlier posting,
> for those that practice jury nullification, I hope when they come to trial,
> they get a jury of their 'jury nullification peers' and they really sweat 
> out what the jury will decide.

I hope so as well.  Jury nullification is the right to condemn existing
law, not to create new classes of crimes.  Therefore, it results in "not
guilty" verdicts almost exclusively.  I would be pleased to be the subject 
of such an exercise.
-- 

cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com      --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...
From: asylvain@felix.filenet.com (The Chipmunk)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: The Concord Principles
Date: 28 Aug 92 02:44:12 GMT
Reply-To: asylvain@fritz.filenet.com (The Chipmunk)
Organization: Foundation for the Increased Wealth of Chipmunks

Written in article <9208242245.AA15895@echidna.swdc.stratus.com>
 by lpb@STRATUS.SWDC.STRATUS.COM (Len Bucuvalas):

: *Sixth*, the new democracy tool box 

That's a cute name.  "Democracy tool box."  Nader certainly knows his
marketing techniques.

: (c) Citizen consumers are the viewers and listeners of 
: television and radio.  Federal law says that the
: public owns the public airwaves which are now leased
: for free by the Federal Communications Commission to
: television and radio companies.

Sell the airwaves to the TV and radio companies.  Eliminate the FCC.

: The public, whose
: only option is to switch dials or turn off, deserves
: its own Audience Network.

This is silly.  How do you suppose the FCC knows to penalize a radio
station for saying "fuck" on the air?  Some little old puritan lady,
with nothing else to do with her life, turns them in.
Xref: sparky ca.politics:7303 talk.politics.misc:43069
From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: ca.politics,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Stereotyping
Date: 31 Aug 92 18:12:11 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <193983@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov>, pdb059@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov (Paul Bartholomew) writes:
> In article <12002@optilink.UUCP>, cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
# # It's rather nice that way.  They want privacy, great.  They don't
# # make a point of being offensive about their private practices, and
# # that means that I don't have any idea what they do in private.
# # Fine with me.  Homosexuals want the right to be offensive about
# # what they do in private, but then want people to forget about that
# # when they are busy whipping each other naked in the middle of 
# # Market Street.
# 
# Clayton, how many people have you seen whipping each other naked in the
# middle of Market Street?  None?  I thought so.  Now, how many people have

Actually, the tape I saw had a float with at least six men on it,
some of them masturbating while using whips.  Of course, Jeff Dauber's
Dancing Dong (as it was whimsically called in soc.motss) played a
prominent role in the repeal of the Concord Gay Rights ordinance.

# you seen on news reports of Gay Pride Parades carrying, and perhaps using,
# whips?  A dozen or so?  Maybe even 20 or 30?  So these dozen or so people
# are necessarily representative of *all* homosexuals?  With logic like this,
# it's no wonder that nobody's convinced by your arguments.

But then again, there's the constant discussions of S&M and leather
in soc.motss...

# [re:  S&M bars in San Francisco]
# # I don't search for either -- but they are rather hard to miss in
# # S.F., what with men running back and forth through the entrances
# # dressed in leather.
# 
# I see.  So, all people who dress in leather are into S&M?  Fascinating.
# Clayton, get help.  You need it badly.
# 
# Paul Bartholomew          |   "The time has come, the walrus said, to talk of

Look.  When a guy walks out of a bar wearing leather pants, leather
jacket, leather cap, and there are metal studs on EVERYTHING, and
he's not the only patron involved, what assumption do you make?

I'm reminded of when the S.F. Police Dept. went recruiting in
"Chaps" a few years back.  According to press reports at the time,
the recruiting officer explained the virtues of recruiting cops
in a place like that, "At least we don't have to teach the use
of handcuffs and restraint devices."  Does it scare you to think
that police officers are being recruited in a place where the
clientele has pain, humilation, and sexual pleasure conflated?
-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
Alcohol prohibition didn't work; drug prohibition doesn't work; gun
prohibition won't work.
From: kane@buast7.bu.edu (Hot Young Star)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: Homosexual marriages
Date: 29 Aug 92 16:24:34 GMT
Organization: Astronomy Department, Boston University, Boston, MA, USA

In article <11998@optilink.UUCP> manley@optilink.UUCP (Dave Manley) writes:

>In article <94734@bu.edu> kane@buast7.bu.edu (Hot Young Star) writes:

>>And Aristophanes is considered classy!

>Ah, yes.  There is a good reason for that. You see, Aristophanes was a
>homosexual! Probably a child molester!! Definitely a member, if not the
>creator, of NAMBLA!!! Isn't all that obvious from the evidence?!!!

to our "audience of one", yes.         :)
Xref: sparky ca.politics:7042 ca.environment:819
From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: ca.politics,ca.environment,ba.politics
Subject: Re: "Ecofascists" In Action
Keywords: Pollution, Volunteerism, Environment
Date: 25 Aug 92 21:27:30 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <p028tt0@fido.asd.sgi.com>, dauber@sgi.com (Jeff Dauber) writes:
> In article <h2=nrt-.phil@netcom.com> phil@netcom.com (Phil Ronzone) writes:
> 
> >So, 1. Put the property in private ownership.
> >    2. Sue anybody that fucks with your property. This requires a system
> >       of justice of course where the "sue-ee" does not coercively own
> >       the court system.
> 
> I see one major problem with this....  If you put the property in private
> ownership, that owner will fuck up the bay without anyone taking them to
> task.  

Hmmm.  A major corporation spends $50 billion to buy the bay, then
lets it get run down so that it loses enormous amounts of money from
rental fees (pleasure boaters, beach resorts), and the resulting
property is only worth a few hundred million dollars.  Did I understand
that right?

Now, it certainly describes what GOVERNMENT does with resources.

> FWA


-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
Alcohol prohibition didn't work; drug prohibition doesn't work; gun
prohibition won't work.
Newsgroups: ca.politics,talk.politics.miscc