HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ah287@yfn.ysu.edu (Murray Kahl)
Subject: Re: Autopsy - Kahane and Rosenbaum
Organization: Youngstown State University/Youngstown Free-Net
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 21:02:36 GMT


Curious how Rav Kahane (z'tl) has become rather main stream while his opponents are adopting the tactics that he was accused of so vehemently.
I assume you feel the democratic process entitled Israel to ban Kach from running for the Knesset and yet allowed Arab parties to participate in democracy.
I spoke to him in Miami, a Sunday evening, the evening before he was so brutally murdered in NYC, and he was a loving man. He asked for nothing more than respect from his Muslim opponents and displayed a an unusually strong ahavat Yisrael.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: bc744@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark Ira Kaufman)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: McDonalds in Israel
Date: 9 Nov 1992 04:13:17 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


   There is another way to come at this 'cheeseburger' situation.
I am a vegetarian.  And there are numerous non-meat products that
make fine burgers.  But I don't expect To find anything like this
under the golden arches.
-- 
   "One can be a racist.  Or one can be a human being.  But one
may not be both."
                                 - Rabbi Abraham Joshua heschel

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: clamen+@CS.CMU.EDU (Stewart Clamen)
Subject: Re: British Royal Family question.
Originator: clamen@BYRON.SP.CS.CMU.EDU
Reply-To: clamen+@CS.CMU.EDU
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon University
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 23:09:46 GMT

In article <memo.740889@cix.compulink.co.uk> stephenp@cix.compulink.co.uk (Stephen Phillips) writes:

   In-Reply-To: <1992Nov9.005249.9974@lugb.latrobe.edu.au> EXTDSM@LURE.LATROBE.EDU.AU (MADDISON,David)

   > +From         : EXTDSM@LURE.LATROBE.EDU.AU (MADDISON,David)
   > +Subject      : British Royal Family question.
   > 
   > I recently learned that the baby boys of the British Royal Family are
   > circumcised by a mohel. Does anybody have any further information on this?

   I had the "honour" of being circumcised by the late Dr. Snowman A'H
   who was employed by Her Majesty the Queen to circumcise Princes
   Charles, Andrew and Edward. Apparently it used to be the custom to
   circumcise royal baby boys, no doubt for medical/hygienic reasons,
   and a Mohel was used.

   I believe that the "modern" royals (like Charles and Diana) have not
   had their sons circumcised.

I read that the latest royal generation were circumcised by an MD.


--
Stewart M. Clamen			Internet:    clamen@cs.cmu.edu
School of Computer Science		UUCP: 	     uunet!"clamen@cs.cmu.edu"
Carnegie Mellon University		Phone: 	     +1 412 268 2145
5000 Forbes Avenue			Fax:	     +1 412 681 5739
Pittsburgh, PA 15213-3891, USA
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Subject: Re: Who built the pyramids
Organization: AT&T
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 20:31:54 GMT

In article <1992Nov12.201210.29042@umbc3.umbc.edu>
shimoff@umbc4.umbc.edu (Eliot Shimoff) writes:

>Of course there is the adage "al tikri plague ela plaque" ("Do not
>read "plague" but "plaque"), suggesting at least 10 plaques.  And
>the aggadic material in the Passover haggada suggests that there
>may have been many more than just 10 plagues (or plaques). But
>that is, after all, only aggadic material.

Do you think these plaques were inscribed with the finger of G-d then
installed with the hand of G-d?  If so, there may well have been just 10
plaques.
-- 
Sam Saal      kingfish!saal OR saal@kingfish.att.com
	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: MASH@WEIZMANN.WEIZMANN.AC.IL (Michael Shimshoni)
Subject: Orthodox Monopoly Claims (was Conversion Question)
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 14:13:16 GMT

In: <memo.740888@cix.compulink.co.uk>
stephenp@cix.compulink.co.uk (Stephen Phillips) claims inter alia:

>In-Reply-To: <1992Nov9.004613.1437@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.co
>
>> +From         : stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger)
>> +Subject      : Re: Conversion Question
>>
>>
>> Oh boy, here we go again.  Well folks, here's another reality
>> reminder.  Maybe this time it will sink in-
>>
>>     1.  Orthodox Jews do not "own" our religion; theirs is but
>>         one legitimate INTERPRETATION of what God expects from
>>         all of us Jews!
>
>Nobody "owns" a religion. But for 3,000 odd years the Orthodox
>"interpretation" as you put it has been the one that has been
>universally accepted (apart from a few breakaway groups like the
>Saducees and Karaites). I think that the Orthodox are quite justified
>in maintaining that 3,000 odd years tradition.

I have no wish at that moment to reenter the general discussion
on the claim of monopoly of the Orthodox branch of the Jewish
religion.   I would like to address the wrong, even if all the
time repeated, claim of "3000 odd years" of Orthodoxy being the
one Jewish interpretation.   I have no quarrel if the O wish to
believe in this, they can believe, and do, whatever they wish.
The historic facts, and simple reading of the Tanakh, do not support
such a claim.   3000 years bring us approximately
to King David, add some 400
years more and according to the Tanakh one reaches Sinai.   The
present day Orthodox form of the Jewish religion was established
more or less after the destruction of the Second Temple, some 1900
years ago.   Before that there were some 200 years of many sects,
and before that, no one can show by historical methods, anything
even closely resembling the Talmudic form of the Jewish religion,
which present day Orthodoxy tries to follow.   So while no doubt,
even 1400 years (since the Babylonian Talmud was more or less
written) is quite a respectable length of time, but it is less
than 1000 years since anything like the present day Orthodox
religion was accepted by most Jews.   The Qara'ites refused and
refuse to do so, but their number is at least now relatively
small.   There are even fewer Samaritans.

From this point of view, it is not by itself wrong if more modern
trends in the Jewish religion try to reexamine how the principles
of that religion should be applied at present.

The rest of Yisroel's article deals with details of the argument
of the O-C-R, to which I have no wish to contribute.

>Stephen (Yisroel) Phillips      Tel: 44-895-442141

 Michael Shimshoni
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,misc.headlines,talk.politics.misc,misc.legal
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Subject: Re: Say it ain't so
Organization: liver ---> spleen
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 13:10:07 GMT

In article <1992Nov4.080110.13323@Princeton.EDU>
niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent) writes:

>Or the police did, which is the other possibility.  Many people felt
>that the cops needed someone to arrest quickly to quiet down the Jewish
>community, so they just picked Nelson and creatively fit the evidence to
>him.

"Quiet the community"??????  It was the Black community that was
rioting.   It was the Black community that was pelting Jewish homes,
communal buildings, and people.  It was the Black community that was
shouting "kill the Jews."  It was a group from the Black community that
lynched a Jews.  But the police had to calm the Jewish community?
-- 
Sam Saal      kingfish!saal OR saal@kingfish.att.com
	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: alex@math.idbsu.edu (Alex Feldman)
Subject: Re: Small town Judaism
Organization: Boise State University Math Dept.
Date: 9 Nov 92 07:54:20

>>>>> On Sun, 8 Nov 1992 18:00:58 EDT, andy <2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> said:

andy> Outside of Toronto, Montreal and Winnipeg, Canada's Jewish population is
andy> relatively small and there has been some concern about the survival of
andy> Jewish life in smaller communities like London, Kingston or even Ottawa.

andy> I'm wondering if there are any other small-town Jews (or at least people in
andy> communities with small Jewish populations) out there and what suggestions
andy> they may have.

Don't offend people unnecessarily.  Makes life difficult in a small
community. 
--
	--alex			alex@math.idbsu.edu
From: janiceg@marvin.Eng.Sun.COM (Janice Gelb)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: sexism
Date: 6 Nov 92 17:52:38 GMT
Reply-To: janiceg@marvin.Eng.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: marvin

In article GJSSBPF6@cc.swarthmore.edu, mwertz1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Melanie Wertz) writes:
>No one has answered my questions yet.  Why is it that MEN are not barred
>from appearing provocative to women?  WOMEN EXPERIENCE ATTRACTION TOO!
>

Personally, I think they have solved that problem: I've never found dingy 
white shirts and oversized black suits a big attraction myself :->



********************************************************************************
Janice Gelb                  | (415) 336-7075     
janiceg@marvin.eng.sun.com   | "A silly message but mine own" (not Sun's!) 
********************************************************************************
From: jeybbu@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: If I could read only one book on Judaism, what would it be?
Date: 13 Nov 92 03:28:08 GMT
Reply-To: jeybbu@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology

Matt Harrington asks for one book on judaism.   I would suggest he
get "what is a Jew"  It has some problems but is pretty even handed.
A reasonably bright Martian could read it in a day, and thus still
have time for Teluskin which is a lot of excellent bits but little
depth (all readers of SCJ should get a copy, however, to cut down on
some of the blatent ignorance exhibited here.  

Please note- ignorance is not disagreement, it is a lack of knowledge
and exposure.  

I would venture to add that the assignment is probably mission
impossible.  

Speaking very personally, I beleive that many on SCJ have spent much more
than a week reading many books, and still have serious gaps in
knowing all about Judiasm...

But we keep at it......

AS an aside to our martian friend.  Please do not assume that the
number of books of Judaism is related to the number of Jews.  There might be
something at work that explains the disproportionate interest in
a single human tribe.....

He might try the book "Wandering STars" which has a neat story about
one of the Rabbis on Mars who could help with the translations.

Julian Yudelson
From: 2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA (andy)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Bobby Fischer's anti-semitism
Date: 13 Nov 92 18:40:15 GMT
Organization: Queen's University at Kingston

In article <1992Nov12.155740.7188@cs.brown.edu>, dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
says:
>
>simon1@bass.bu.edu (Simon Streltsov) writes:
>#dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) writes:
>
>##After brilliantly winning the world championship in 1972 from
>##Boris Spassky, Fishcer forfeited the 1975 title match because
>##of his insistence on a technicality - he wanted the match to
>##be over only when one player wins 10 games, and not as it used
>##to be (limited to 24 games). To me, that was the first sign
>##of the man going crazy - to drop the title without playing
>##because of such a thing!?
>
>#Not so simple:
>#His successor Mr.Karpov became so famous by close cooperation with
>#KGB and using trick, which seemed gross even by Soviet chess
>#standards (-:, that any of the Fisher's suspisions could be justified -
>#maybe it was the reason to become crazy (-:
>
>Whatever Karpov did doesn't really explain why Fishcer dropped the
>title without playing. Also, he didn't play at any tournament
>after his victory over Spassky.
>
>#My bet - Kasparov - 3, Fisher - 4, 30 draws, game stopped
>#for some unusual reason.
>
>Hmmm, we'll have to wait and see. If Fischer was playing now
>like he did in 1970-72, I would agree, but that doesn't seem
>to be the case. Untill he plays against a really strong
>player and not a has-been like Spassky, it is hard to tell
>what he is really worth.
>
>-Danny Keren.
Let's not forget that Spassky is rated around 100th in the list of top players,
if Fischer were still a top contender he should have shut Spassky out, in stead
he lost several games with many games resulting in a draw. Kasparov would have
wiped the floor with Spassky. I think Kasparov would win decisively over
Fischer and I suspect Fischer knows this which is why I think we'll never see
a Fischer-Kasparov match.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll)
Subject: Why I think Kach's policies are racist
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 22:21:38 GMT

In an e-mail exchange with a reader of soc.culture.jewish, I came to
realize that some people do not understand (or do not accept) why I called
Kach's policies racist.  Here's a clarification (an exerpt from the latest
e-mail exchange:)

Let me define "racism" - the discrimination against people based
on their race, religion, or cultural identity.

Let me define "discrimination" - the differing treatment of people
in areas of political rights, housing, and freedom of movement.

So far, those two definitions seem fairly reasonable.

Now:  Kach proposes to take away all political rights from Arabs (actually,
from all non-Jews) in Israel.  This is clearly discrimination.  And this
discrimination is clearly based solely on religion, since it would
not apply to Jews (or, indeed, to Arab converts to Judaism.)

In fact, were I to move to Israel with my wife, we would be victims
of Kach's racism.  My wife is Jewish, as recognized by the Conservative
and Reform movements.  However, sho is not Jewish as recognized by the
Orthodox.  One of Kach's planks is to force an end to "mixed marriages"
by disallowing the cohabitation of Jews and non-Jews.  Therefore, were
we to make aliyah and Kach gain power in Israel, my wife and I would
be forced to separate or leave Israel.  Again, this decision would be
based solely on the fact that my wife was not born Jewish.

So, let me recap:

Racism == discrimination based on religion, race or culture.
Discrimination == differing treatment of people in areas of housing,
political rights, or freedom of movement.
Kach plank #1 == take away political rights from non-Jews only
Kach plank #2 == forbid cohabitation of Jews and non-Jews, based on
non-Jewish partner's religion

This adds up to RACISM to me.  I don't see how you can get around
it, unless you want to nit-pick at my definitions.

--
David F. Skoll

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
Subject: Re: Jewish Movies on Video?
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 04:08:56 GMT

andy <2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> writes:

#One of my favourtie films is "The Angel Levine" with Harry Belafonte
#as a Black, Jewish angel and legend Zero Mostel as a Jewish skeptic,
#very funny and very moving film. 

I didn't see the movie but read the story by the same name, by
Bernard Malamud. Great. 

#Are there any other Zero Mostel gems out there?(Besides "Something funny
#happened to me on the way to the Forum")

I think Zero Mostel acted in the movie based on the play by Eugene
Oneil, the name of which my spelling is not good enough to get
correct :-). Anyway its about people turning into that big animal
with a horn that is called KARNAF in Hebrew (reinoschorous!?). Also
acting is Gene Wilder.

-Danny Keren.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: levene@aplpy.jhuapl.edu (Robert A. Levene)
Subject: Re: What Does it take to be a Prophet/Messanger?
Organization: Johns Hopkins University
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 92 14:34:42 GMT

In article <1992Nov8.030057.8951@cs.brown.edu> dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny
Keren) writes:

> I would be grateful for answers to the following:
>
> 2) Are there any criterions one has to fill to be considered a
>   prhophet/messanger?

Maimonides spells them out in detail in Hilchos Yesodei HaTorah,
particularly chapters 7-10 and thereabouts.  Among the qualifications
are scrupulous Torah observance, impeccable character, a demostrated
ability to tell the future precisely and accurately, physical health,
avoidance of daily trivialities, and maintenance of a consistently
high level of spirituality.

Rob



--
Robert A. Levene     Internet: levene@aplpy.jhuapl.edu
  "/  //  / /"         Bitnet:   RXL1@APLVM
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: daver@ECE.ORST.EDU (Dave Rabinowitz)
Subject: Re: anti-semitism in academia
Organization: ECE Dept.,OSU,Corvallis
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 17:33:36 GMT

>>My problem is this:  I think that she will not make these comments
>>anymore, in fact, I doubt that she will talk to me, but we

>>I would, of course, consider making an official complaint, but
>>I'm not sure I want to do that now.  Has anyone else faced a

>Not complaining will only result in her behaving the same way in the future,
>is there a Human Rights Code in your state? Is she violating your Civil Rights?
>If she is, you should do something. That sort of behaviour is unacceptable

Complaining would only convince her that she is right (that Jews will use
underhanded methods to advance themselves).  What is needed is education 
and the best way to do this is to keep communications open, invite her to
participate in Jewish activities and include her whenever possible in general.
She honestly believes what she says, and she has to be taught that it's not
true, not that it's not proper to say what you believe.
From: trb@ima.isc.com (Andrew Tannenbaum)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Bobby Fischer's anti-semitism
Date: 13 Nov 92 19:13:07 GMT
Article-I.D.: ima.1992Nov13.191307.22640
Reply-To: trb@ima (Andrew Tannenbaum)
Organization: Beth trb, Baruchline, MA, USA

Yes, Fischer says nasty things about Jews, and his world view tends to
be wacky.  On the whole other hand, his match with Spassky has generated
considerable interest among chess fans, it was far from insignifigant
to the chess community.  Fischer (who is about 50 years old) and
Spassky (about 55) still have some life in them chess-wise, it's not
like they're boxers.  Grandmaster Spassky's current rating places him
around #100 worldwide (VERY good) and the way Fischer destroyed him
(10-5 with 15 draws) might place Fischer around #50.  With practice,
one would think that Fischer could only improve some.  Both are former
world champions.  Not chopped liver.

So you can complain til you are blue in the face about Fischer's stupid
opinions, and I'll probably agree with you, but his hateful world views
aren't very interesting.  On the other hand, Fischer was and is an
interesting figure in the chess world even if you don't like his
politics, this fact is difficult to deny.

	Andrew Tannenbaum   Brookline, MA
From: ssteigma@scott.skidmore.edu (Stephen H. Steigman)
Subject: Re: MOTT?
Organization: Skidmore College, Saratoga Springs NY
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 19:09:27 GMT

MOTT - Member Of The Tribe  


But this does bring up an interesting question....

If Christians consider themselves decendants of the tribes, and
Moslems consider themselves decendants of Mohammed, doesn't that make
all Jews, Christians, and Moslems memebers of the tribe of Abraham?

Just wondering, although it is one of my favorite expressions...and I
only use it when talking about Jews....

:-)

Stephen
-- 
=====================================================
Stephen H. Steigman   INTERNET: ssteigma@skidmore.edu
Skidmore College      VOICE:    (518) 581-6111 
Saratoga Springs NY		
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: gertler@cyclone.sbi.com (Don Gertler)
Subject: Re: Serious question about a Cohen getting married
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <gertler@cyclone.sbi.com (Don Gertler)>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 21:56:10 GMT

ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet) writes:
> However, why would we believe Yibbum overrides the
> prohibition of a Kohen Gadol marrying a widow?   After all, he could
> have required Chalitza.

`aseh docheh lo ta`aseh?

-Don Gertler
From: rlk@underprize.think.com (Robert Krawitz)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Why I think Kach's policies are racist (AND DANGEROUS)
Date: 13 Nov 92 22:14:58
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge Mass., USA
	<1992Nov11.024447.18923@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca>
	<1992Nov13.194419.10930@ennews.eas.asu.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: underprize.think.com
In-reply-to: makowsky@enuxva.eas.asu.edu's message of Fri, 13 Nov 1992 19:44:19 GMT

In article <1992Nov13.194419.10930@ennews.eas.asu.edu> makowsky@enuxva.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky) writes:

   #    Ah, but David, God is on our side! We can force God to cause the
   #    world to work differently from the way it would "naturally." In
   #    short, we force God to perform miracles for us.

	   What you do not seem to realize is that the "natural" workings
   of the world are going to lead it to do things that will be worse than
   whatever will happen if Kach's policies are adopted.

A lot of people (myself included) think differently, and there's no way
to prove it one way or the other.  However, the course of action
advocated by Kach would almost certainly (IMHO) lead to its censure (to
put it mildly) by all countries that even pretend to be civilized (I'm
generally pro-Israel, but I could not support a country that attempted
to expel a group of its residents for the "crime" of being born to the
wrong parents).

   #    And of course, this is precisely where the late R. Kahane's plan
   #    of action is in fact completely *un*Jewish. We don't force God's
   #    hand and we don't demand miracles of him. (Shmuel 1, Chps. 4-6)

	   That is not the point, although G-d has made certain promises
   that if X happens he will do Y.  Unless you are willing to call G-d a
   liar, we can force Y by seeing to it that X occurs.

While I'm the last person who should discuss theology, I should point
out that holding someone to the absolute letter of his or her promise is
not always the way to gain their friendship.
--
ames >>>>>>>>>  |	Robert Krawitz <rlk@think.com>	245 First St.
bloom-beacon >  |think!rlk				Cambridge, MA  02142
harvard >>>>>>  .	Thinking Machines Corp.		(617)234-2116

Member of the League for Programming Freedom -- write lpf@uunet.uu.net
From: wc4209@writer.yorku.ca (Irene Berkovich)
Subject: Re: AIDS testing in Israel
Organization: Computer Assisted Writing Centre, York University, Toronto, Canada
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 15:42:57 GMT

In article <1992Nov8.073121.697@vms.huji.ac.il> backon@vms.huji.ac.il writes:
>I just heard on the Sunday morning news that the Israeli Ministry of the
>Interior will now demand AIDS testing for anyone requesting a tourist visa for
>a period of over 3 months. From what I understood, the policy will soon be
>extended  to those requesting to come on ALIYA.
>
>Josh
>backon@VMS.HUJI.AC.IL

What will they do if someone tests positive?