From: noraa@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (aaron.l.hoffmeyer)
Subject: Re: need advice
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 05:13:09 GMT

In article <92202.095309U233A@wvnvm.wvnet.edu> U233A@wvnvm.wvnet.edu writes:
>
>     I have a friend who lives in California, and his ex-wife and
>daughters aged 12 and 14 live in Pittsburgh, PA.  He is remarried
>with 2 small boys, good provider and has always been dependable with
>the child support.
>
>     The 14 year old is expressing a desire to live with him now.
>Things are ok at home, but as most teens do, I feel wants a change
>of scenery.  Dad doesnt want a messy court fight, but he feels
>entitled to spend time actually raising his children.  His exwife
>doesnt want the girls separated and is willing to fight.  Questions:
>
>When will a judge listen to the childs request?  Will a judge separate
>2 teens?  What are the realistic chances for Dad to gain custody?  Does
>anyone have a similar experience?  Does anyone know precedent in
>Pennsylvania?
>
>Thanks so much!  Tony

I just talked to Jennifer Isham, the president of Mothers WithOut
Custody, and her husband is dealing with exactly this same situation
right now.  It is a trickey one - and this is why:

Kids in these broken families play their parents against one another all
the time, much as children in intact familes do.  But with a divorced
family where the child is old enough, they have a very powerful weapon -
a change of custody.  It is a ransom or an extortion for the child to
use against the custodial parent anytime she is not getting what she
wants.  "I'll just go live with daddy, then" could be the response to
her mother anytime she is not getting her way.  In reality, she might
not be so sincere about the statement.

It is a very powerful tool in the hands of teenagers.  If the
non-custodial parent takes her request seriously, but the custodial
parent does not want to relinquish custody, then you're looking at a
fairly expensive court fight.  However, the courts will often listen to
what the child wants, and will abide by the child's wishes.  An astute
judge would probably ask the child if he/she was really sincere about
this request, or would he/she really like to stay where they are if they
could get along better with the custodial parent.  An affirmative
response might tell the judge that the child is exercising a power play
and might not grant the change of custody.  It's hard to say.

Often, the custodial parent will fight vehemently for the child support
amount to remain intact, even though they would be giveing up primary
custody of the child.  So, there could even by a fight over the child
support.  And, the courts might deem that this child was the a"second
child of calcualtions" and would only decrease the child support amount
a small percentage, not half (the courts grant a big percentage of child
support for one child - like 12% to 15% of the total gross income of
both parents, and makes the non-custodial parent pay their percentage of
the total gross amount times that number to the other, custodial parent.
The second child's support is only about 8% to 12% of the total gross
income.  If the judge deemed this child to be the "second" in the
calculations, the  child support might only be reduced 30% to 40% of the
total amount of child support ordered to the custodial parent.

Think about how unfair that would be.  A father makes $30k and the
mother makes $25k.  When the mother had custody of both children, the
father was ordered to pay 30/55 (55%) * $11,000 (the child support
obligation for two children when the parents total income is $55k) or
$6000 per year ($500 per month).  Now, if one child goes to live with
the father, the judge could order the father to pay 55% of the child support
obligation for one child from the state guidelines - in this case 55% of
approximately $7000 or 3850 per year or 320 per month.  That's fully 64%
of the child support amount for two children, not 50%, which would be
fair.

Also, what if the daughter comes and lives with dad and doesn't get her
way with dad either.  She might use the same power play against dad, and
call up mom and say she wants to live with her again.  Then the whole
thing would start all over.

To address your questions specifically....

>When will a judge listen to the childs request?  

Yes, in most cases, they will.  It is in the child's best interest for
them to live where they believe they would be happiest.  I think this is
true in every state.

>Will a judge separate 2 teens?  

Yes, it happens.  Kids can be a different as their two parents were.
Completely different personalities.  They might not even like their
siblings.  I often see within familes, one person who is
ultra-conservative and another who is a left-wing liberal.  The kids
might fight all the time.  Yes, they can separate two children -
especially if there is no close bond between them.

>What are the realistic chances for Dad to gain custody?  

Fair to middling if the child is sincere about this wish.  Of course, if
custodial mom is not big on the idea, she might put up quite a struggle
and in the end, offer a major bribe of some sort to the child to stay.
The child might then "change her mind" and all would be for naught.

>Does anyone have a similar experience?  

Not me personally, but I've seen examples of this - all in directions -
including the child changing his/her mind at the last minute - after
thousands of $$$ were already up in smoke.  I know of children who
decided to live with different parents.  I know more of these than you
might imagine - two in my department here at work.  I know people who
are facing this same situation right now (see above).  I also know of a
man who had something like 4 or 5 kids, and he fought for custody of
them when they were little, but lost.  In the end, every one of them
came and lived with him when they turned 12.

>Does anyone know precedent in Pennsylvania?

Pennsylvania precedence is probably like all other states on this.  The
courts usually let the children decide which parent they want to live
with when they are about 12.  They usually don't when they are less
than 8.  Between 8 and 12 is a grey area, and the courts get to
exercise some discretion.  Some states specify the ages at which the
child can choose.  In Ohio, it used to be age 12.  Now the law has
changed here and, as long as the judge deems the child to be
emotionally and intellectually mature, the child can choose.  One judge
let a 7-year-old choose recently.

It sounds like your friend is in a tough one....  Wish him good luck
from us.  He'll need it, patience and probably $$$.

Aaron L. Hoffmeyer
TR@CBNEA.ATT.COM