HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: On Polish Anti-semitism
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 19:52:17 GMT

In article <1992Sep28.181011.15765@sarah.albany.edu> pawel@tethys.ph.albany.edu writes:
>In article <1992Sep28.153900.28617@Princeton.EDU>, roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig) writes:
>>In article <matthew.717472103@munna> matthew@.cs.mu.oz (Maciek Blasikiewicz) writes:
>>>d89-mor@nada.kth.se (Monika Orski) writes:

>[...]

>>Nope, sorry, the presence of the book in his church is first-hand
>>evidence -- circumstantial ,but pretty strong, like the trout in the
>>milk.  Besides, the charge of anti-Semitism isn't made lightly in Poland.,
>>now, is it?

>[...]

>  ANY kind of accusation shouldn't be make lightly, I hope you'll agree
>with this.  In particular if you use word "anti-Semitism" indiscriminately
>it will loose all meaning.

Indiscriminately?  INDISCRIMINATELY?

I call a seller of the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" an anti-Semite
and you call that "indiscriminate?"  Hell, that's practically the 
*definition* of an anti-Semite.  The book is anti-Semitic slander from
cover to cover, and has never been sold or praised by anyone who didn't
have a whopping hatred of Jewry.  

Or am I missing something in your posting?

Roger
>                                      Pawel Penczek
>


Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: aap@wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo Pinkas)
Subject: Re: PLEASE!  I need your help!  Help me keep this love alive!
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 23:23:45 GMT

>stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger) writes:
>
>> 
>> Growing up is not when your sex organs, or the state, tell you you're
>> an adult; it's when you outgrow the mentality that only what's good
>> for you counts, and instead you realize that your actions can hurt
>> other people and that you're accountable to these other people.


I agree completely with this. It is sad that some parents are not grown enough
as to realize that their actions can hurt their kids.



>> 
>> -- 
>> Stan Krieger                 All opinions, advice, or suggestions, even
>> UNIX System Laboratories     if related to my employment, are my own.
>> Summit, NJ
>> smk@usl.com
>
>

AAP
From: de@moscom.com (David Esan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Yokhanan HaTovel
Date: 1 Oct 92 13:06:56 GMT
Organization: Moscom Corp., Pittsford NY

In article <91035@netnews.upenn.edu> weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener) writes:
>Actually, the Baptist had his own Jewish splinter movement at the time,
>presumably related to the Essenes.  After his execution, many became
>convinced that *he* was the Messiah.  Believe it or not, this obscure
>religion has survived for the past two millennia.  Last I heard (ten years
>ago), there were roughly 10000 adherents in Iraq (called Mandaeans).  That
>"has survived" may be "had survived", considering.

Are these people Jewish?  Besides belief in John, how do their beliefs differ
from Judaism?

Thanks.
-- 
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 -->     David Esan      de@moscom.com  
 
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: * jesus ? *
Date: 6 Oct 92 15:47:40 GMT
Reply-To: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology
In-reply-to: pasward@maytag.uwaterloo.ca (Paul A.S. Ward)

In article <BvpFpK.F70@watdragon.uwaterloo.ca>, pasward@maytag (Paul A.S. Ward) writes:
>>can't see any difference between J***s and just about anyone else when

>Question:  Then why the astrices?

Swear words are swear words.
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
From: de@moscom.com (David Esan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Y'hi Ratson at the Table
Date: 1 Oct 92 13:11:24 GMT
Organization: Moscom Corp., Pittsford NY

In article <1992Sep30.201717.17658@cbnewsk.cb.att.com> alu@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (Alan Lustiger) writes:
>Ahhh, you have not had the pleasure of eating sweet gifilte fish!
>(which does not require horseradish!) I'm not talking about what
>Mrs Adler or Mr. Manishewitz call sweet; no, I'm talking SWEET!
>Like my mother makes! There is perhaps no more appropriate Rosh
>Hashana food. Ahhh, the legions of people who have tried it and
>been convinced that *this* is the way to make gefilte fish!

Many of us whose family comes from south of the Gefilte Fish line*, find
sweet gefilte fish to be an abomination and would prefer to go without
rather than subject ourselves to this abuse.

Has anyone found a canned Gefilte Fish that is not sweet?  Are all Jews in
the food business from Galicia?  


*[The Gefilte Fish line runs through eastern Europe.  North of the line
they eat sweet fish, south of it non-sweet fish.  Now can we discuss if it
is kugel or kigel, challah or cholly?]
-- 
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 -->     David Esan      de@moscom.com  
 
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Xref: sparky soc.culture.jewish:16776 soc.culture.polish:2930
From: hap@scubed.com (Hap Freiberg)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.polish
Subject: Re: On Polish Anti-semitism
Date: 30 Sep 92 18:27:13 GMT
Article-I.D.: scubed.1992Sep30.182713.12255
Organization: S-CUBED, A Division of Maxwell Labs; San Diego CA

>
Having read most of this drivel for the past week, I have a question.

Why is the band space being wasted? Trying to discuss anti-semitism

with these Polish patriots is analagous to trying to discuss historical

revision with the B-cpu bigots.

My $0.02

Shana tova...

Hap
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet)
Subject: Re: Cross-dressing
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories,  Columbus, Ohio
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 02:26:52 GMT

Didn't King David wear a skirt and not much underneath it?  And
really "kick up" a storm?
-- 
Art Kamlet  a_s_kamlet@att.com  AT&T Bell Laboratories, Columbus
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: ibacon@seamis1.gsfc.nasa.gov (Ian Bacon)
Subject: Re: Sinead O'Connor on SNL
Organization: Goddard Space Flight Center
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 16:00:57 GMT

kgivon@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (karen lee givon) writes:

>In article <1992Oct5.143231.13434@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> abilenko@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Arkady Bilenko) writes:
>>	Dear netters, 
>>If any of you were as geeky as I to watch SNL on Sat, Oct 3, I was wondering
>>whether anyone else but me noticed the "Star of David" pendant on Sinead 
>>O'Connor.  If so, what could it mean?  I am aware that that particular Jewish
>>symbol became such only sometime last century, so perhaps, some Gaelic or Irish
>>ethnic groups would claim it as their own.  Anyway, just random thoughts and 
>>questions.
>>	Arkady (abilenko@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu)

>I saw a Star of David in a monastery I visited here in Indiana.  I was

>told that it has been a Catholic symbol for a long time. 
>   
>Keren    

The following information was in the Washington Post today (summarised from
memory):
The star of David is also an Ethiopian symbol, deriving from their legend
that the Royal house of Ethiopia descends from Sheba, via Solomon. Ms. O'Connor
had a number of Ethiopian and Rastafarian items on stage with her, and the song
that she sang was a Bob Marley song. The Rastarfari believe that Emperor Haile
Selasie was a divine figure, and worship him as such. Selasie's original name
was Ras Tafari.
Does this mean that Sinead O'Connor has become a
Rastafari? Don't know, but that is undoubtedly the symbolism that she was 
attempting to display.
From: eva@Apocalypse.CAD.UCLA.EDU (Eva)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Adopted children
Date: 3 Oct 92 01:28:50 GMT
Organization: U.C.L.A. Computer Aided Design Laboratory

Conversation during R.H dinner:
A friend of mine is adopted. He has had two adoptive fathers, both claimed
Cohen lineage.  He assumes that since he does not know his birth father
he can not claim to be Cohen.   

Arguements that ensued took form of:
1) How can anyone be sure they are of true Cohen lineage?
   (for example if three of four generations later, my friend's great 
    grand children assess their last name, assume that past generations just
    weren't religious, and therefore partake of Cohen duties not realizing
    that there was an adoption generations ago)
   a) the view in regards to other things (food) is that where there is doubt
      one does not assume.  If that is the case how can there be anyone
      claiming Cohen lineage? Where is the proof?
   b) if this view does not affect lineage then why can't anyone claim
      to be Cohen?
2) How can adopted children of unknown parents be sure they are Jewish?
3) What are the "laws" concerning adopted children known to have been produced
   out of wedlock?

I am mostly concerned with the traditional/orthodox viewpoint.

Thanks in advance,
Eva
eva@apocalypse.cad.ucla.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: gertler@ptms_dev.sbi.com (User - Don Gertler)
Subject: Re: * Jesus Christ? *
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <gertler@ptms_dev.sbi.com (User - Don Gertler)>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 20:05:05 GMT

thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Citecheck Hell) writes:
>No, she wasn't.  The Christian Scriptures make a big point about tracing
>Davidian lineage through to Joseph.  Which is kind of ironic, given that
>Christian theology teaches that Joseph had nothing to do with the birth
>of Jesus.

Actually, it depends on which lineage you use.  Two gospels provide
very different genealogies.  One, I believe Matthew, follows down
to Joseph, then says he wasn't the father.  The other, I don't recall
which, goes through to Mary, which is, of course, meaningless in Jewish
law.  It is also interspersed with several women along the way.

Neither coincides with lineages spelled out in Tanach.

-Don Gertler
From: dermer@convex.csd.uwm.edu (Marshall Dermer)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: PLEASE!  I need your help!  Help me keep this love alive!
Date: 1 Oct 1992 16:14:57 GMT
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.30

In article <1992Sep28.144550.26968@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu> daw@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Dave Webb) writes:
>I desperately need some help and advice.  I have been dating a Jewish girl
>from New York for the past 2 months and have developed a wonderful relationship
>with her.  We have spoken of marriage and spending the rest of our lives 
>together.  We see each other as often as possible, I've been to New York several
>times, she's been down here (Baltimore) and we went on vactation together to
>Florida.  The problem we are now facing is her parents.  They are conservative
 ........

 I believe that Eliot Shimoff has offered sage advice to David and placed
 the possibility of David and his Jewish woman-friend marrying in the context
 of the history of the Jewish people.

 I believe the suggestion that each person date others for six months is also
 wise though I advocate an even longer period of seriously dating alternative
 persons.  Clearly neither David nor his friend appear to have considered the
 long-term consequences of their relationship.

 Beyond rational issues, however, there is the issue of (romantic) love.
 Dave and his friend need to seriously explore relationships with other
 persons.  Dave with non-Jews and his friend, of course, with Jews. 

 I believe that they should each seriously spend a year exploring such
 alternatives.  In particular, following the advice of Susan Page, author of
 "If I'm So Wonderful, Why Am I Still Single?"  [Bantam Books, $4.95] each 
 should:

 1.  Desire love.
 2.  Believe that one can find a new love.
 3.  Make a master plan for increasing the flow of eligible people through 
     one's life.
 4.  Continue dating even though some dates are "duds."
 5.  GO FOR VOLUME.  Schedule as many two hour dates as possible in public
     places.  Talk to these dates; try to discover the other's values.  Try
     to anticipate the long-term consequences of a relationship.
     Carefully consider future in-laws.  Marriage results in not only a
     spouse, but a new set of family members.
 6.  Be prepared to say "no," and move on when the relationship does not
     have much of a future.
 7.  Don't limit oneself to people of a certain "type."

 And finally, put aside how people look and how much money they or their
 parents have. I know this is a tough one, but if one can do this than one
 will discover many people one can potentially love and, with God's help,
 have a joyous marriage.
 
  --Marshall
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Using vacation days for the Jewish Holidays
Date: 1 Oct 92 08:52:35 GMT
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs

In <1992Sep30.121954.20321@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal) writes:

>Rosh Hashana does last a full two days in Israel.

Two days?  Felt like about a week to me.  At least I ate enough food
for one.
-- 
/|/-\/-\       New signature will appear "acharai hachagim"
 |__/__/_/    
 |warren@     
/ nysernet.org 			Jerusalem
From: kkniaz@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Krzysztof W. Kniaz)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: On Polish Anti-semitism
Date: 28 Sep 92 20:41:06 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania


I find it very useful that bc744@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark Ira Kaufman)
quotes the book by L. Dawidowicz, since it is lying on my desk:

>A fine book by Lucy
>Dawidowicz, entitled "The Holocaust and the Historians," examines
>this issue in a chapter called "Polish Historical Revisionism."
>The book is published by Harvard University Press.  The book's
>ISBN is 0-674-40567-6.

[BTW. The ISBN no. of my edition is different: 0-674-40566-8 (does anybody
know if different editions of one book can have different ISBN numbers?).]

It would be even better if Mark Kaufman read carefully the chapter mentioned
by himself and found in it on pp. 92-93 the following fragment:

"The Germans used Poland as their gigantic laboratory for mass murder, 
not (as has sometimes been wrongly charged) because the Nazis counted 
on Polish anti-Semitism, but because that was where most of Europe's 
Jews were concentrated and where the Germans expected to settle for a 
long time."



--

Krzysztof Kniaz, University of Pennsylvania |Due to circumstances beyond
Lab for Research on the Structure of Matter |your control, you're master of 
Philadelphia, PA, 19104, USA                |your fate and captain of your soul
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: emc@doe.carleton.ca (Eli Chiprout)
Subject: Re: * jesus ? *
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 22:56:40 GMT

weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener) writes:

>Not really.  On the essential point, the analogy is perfect: us Jews
>can't see any difference between J***s and just about anyone else when
>it comes to who is the Messiah.  *So what* if he had any followers who
>made, and continue to make, lots of noise?

Fair enough.  But many Jews DID see enough in Jesus to proclaim him
Messiah in the first century.  They claimed that Jesus did fulfill the
requirements of a Messiah. 

This of course also happened with Shabtai Zevi.  His 
following spread like wildfire to eastern Europe, the Balkans,
Italy, France, Morocco, Holland, Ottoman Empire, Egypt and in the land
of Israel.  More of "us Jews" were led astray with disastrous
consequences for many.

All of this shows that there was never a clear picture of who the 
Messiah should be in Judaism.  The picture becomes even more cloudy
if we analyze the differences in Messianic concepts among 
Pharisees, Saducees, Karaites, Jewish Rationalists, Maimonides,
Jewish Mysticists, Conservatives, Orthodox, or Reformers.

The attempt to extapolate present wild-eyed beliefs about the
Temple being rebuilt in Jerusalem on anyone living would surely
bring about similar circumstances.  Because many Jews (though
certainly not all) have formulated some kind of Messianic
belief does not allow us to implicate that same belief historically.
Judaism could not help but be affected by the rise of
Christianity and the resultant changes in Jewish culture/beliefs
have been well documented.  (Try for instance to find
present beliefs that a non-Jew must be discouraged from converting
to Judaism, in early Jewish beliefs).

>-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
--
Eli Chiprout
Dept. of Electronics
Carleton University	
emc@doe.carleton.ca
From: bc744@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark Ira Kaufman)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Have the american Jews done enough?
Date: 26 Sep 1992 20:27:23 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc4.ins.cwru.edu


   There are many lessons to be learned from the Holocaust.  Most
important is the lesson to be learned from the Righteous Gentile.
The Righteous Gentiles were those exatraordinary individuals who,
to one degree or another, risked their lives to save Jewish life.
Many of these people were caught and murdered along with the Jews
they were protecting.
   The message is that each of us always has a choice.  It was no
accident that the death camps were located in Poland.  The Polish
people had, over the centuries, exhibited rabid anti-semitism, so
the nazis knew that they would not have a problem operating death
camps in Poland.  There were Poles who saved Jews.  But they were
the exception rather than the rule.
   Maybe the most important lesson of the Holocaust is that we as
individuals always have choices.  They may be difficult, but they
always exist.  It has been said that for evil to thrive, one does
not have to do evil things, but, rather, enough people have to do
nothing in the face of evil.  
-- 
   "One can be a racist.  Or one can be a human being.  But one
may not be both."
                                 - Rabbi Abraham Joshua heschel
From: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: The two days of R'H and the shofar on Shabbos.
Date: 2 Oct 92 16:45:05 GMT
Reply-To: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology
In-reply-to: jgoldber@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Joel Goldberg)

In article <1992Oct2.023204.8520@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca>, jgoldber@alchemy (Joel Goldberg) writes:
>  Ok, this means that at present we do what they did in the past; the
>  two days following Elul 29 are Rosh Hashana. So, now I don't follow
>  why Tishrei isn't extra long in those years when Elul "should" have
>  30 days.

The modern version of two days of R'H follows the custom of exiles in
Israel after the establishment of the fixed calender.  You have to be
more careful in identifying the "they" whose practice we follow.
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet)
Subject: Re: Tribe descent
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories,  Columbus, Ohio
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 20:34:00 GMT

In article <ALLEN.92Oct1150152@golem.ssc.gov> allen@ssc.gov writes:
>In article <1992Oct1.174236.2755@cbnews.cb.att.com> ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet) writes:
>
>   Among orthodox Jews, the answer is clearly: Through the father.
>[...]
>
>   Among conservative Jews -- where women are not prohibited from
>   reading the Torah -- the issue of whether women should be called
>   as Kohen or Levi is the subject of current rabbinical opinions and
>   discussions.
>
>A few small corrections:
>1) I would rather you said "according to the Mesorah" or "according to
>traditional Jewish Law", rather than "among orthodox Jews".

There was a cute posting some time back describing orthodox,
conservative and reform Judaism.  The last line of each description
was something like: Because { X }  represents an unbroken line of
tradition, it is the one true Judaism. 

I understand your point, though.

>2) The daughter of a Levi also does not need her son redeemed.

Yes - thanks for expanding.

>3) The Mesorah does not prohibit, and in fact encourages, women to
>read the Torah.  Note that women received the Torah first (see, for
>example, Rashi).  According to the Mesorah, men need to go through the
>Gemara before being able to really understand and appreciate TaNaCh
>(Torah, Prophets, Writings); whereas women are able to start off with
>TaNaCh directly.

Ah, so Yentl had it all wrong, I guess?

Perhaps I should have said:

  Among conservative Jews -- where women often receive alliyot
  and read from the Torah -- (during regular services where
  both men and women are present and where both men and women
  receive alliyot ... )


>K'tivah v'Chatima Tova!

 Here I think we all agree!
-- 
Art Kamlet  a_s_kamlet@att.com  AT&T Bell Laboratories, Columbus
From: uril@yang.earlham.edu (Uri J. Lessing)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Sinead O'Connor on SNL
Date: 6 Oct 92 19:17:37 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Earlham College, Richmond, Indiana

In article <ibacon.718387257@seamis1>, ibacon@seamis1.gsfc.nasa.gov (Ian 
Bacon) writes:

> The following information was in the Washington Post today (summarised from
> memory):
> The star of David is also an Ethiopian symbol, deriving from their legend
> that the Royal house of Ethiopia descends from Sheba, via Solomon. Ms. O'Connor
> had a number of Ethiopian and Rastafarian items on stage with her, and the song
> that she sang was a Bob Marley song. The Rastarfari believe that Emperor Haile
> Selasie was a divine figure, and worship him as such. Selasie's original name
> was Ras Tafari.
> Does this mean that Sinead O'Connor has become a
> Rastafari? Don't know, but that is undoubtedly the symbolism that she was 
> attempting to display.

No, she doesn't have enough hair.  I think that by ripping up the picture 
of the pope during her song she was undoubtedly beginning her conversion 
to Judiasm.  

Then again, maybe not.

-- 

Uri J. Lessing |  Earlham College |  Richmond, Indiana