From: gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary L. Newell)
Newsgroups: rec.humor,soc.religion.quaker,soc.culture.celtic,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Seriously, a joke.
Date: 4 Jan 93 08:59:58 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.celtic
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson

In article <C09vKL.Dy6@agora.rain.com>, trifid@agora.rain.com (Roadster Racewerks) writes:
> I, too, find "offensive" a bit too strong...
> Although we nowadays are taught to be more careful about stereotypes, they do
> often have some foundation in fact if you go back far enough.

 But isn'tthat the point?? Just how far do you have to go back to insult a
group of people and then how precise is your initial assumption?? That is
how do you *know* that this group was one thing or another group was something
else when you must rely on history recorded many many years ago... I do not
happen to be offended by ethnic humor but I understand those who are...

> Scots had to be thrifty because they (Highlanders, at least) came from a place
> where it could be very hard to make a living, and often had little to share.

 This is what I am trying to say - .... what you have said has no basis in
fact really but rather buys into the common belief -that is, "Scots
were selfish because they had little to share..." - just what is that based
on???

> They were noted for their hospitality, but did *need* to drive a hard bargain.

 Says who? Certainly some cultures are based more upon bartering than others
but I have no reason to believe that the Scots are more inclined than many other european nations...

> Jews, during the Middle Ages (and later in many places) were usually quite
> restricted in where they could go, how they could make a living inside their
> ghettos, and even what they could own. (Which is why they often went into 

 During the "middle ages" - forgive me if my history is wrong but my impression
isthat Jews were much more than "restricted" in their lives and much more 
"persecuted" than anything else...

> I know less about why the Quakers had this reputation, but since they were also
> an oppressed minority at one time, I assume it may have been similar to what
> gave the Jews their reputation.

 Having lived in the Us for some time and in the North East US for even longer I
must admit that I never thought of Quakers as "tight" when it came to money and
I have no idea where this impression comes from...

> I don't see the harm in this joke, so long as people realize that the old
> stereotypes are not very true in modern times, due to the increase in the
> possibilities open to all these folk.

 Well the harm is in the fact that many people, particularly the young, do not
recognize these remarks as myth - see modern united Germany - instead
they buy into the old beliefs and continue to propogate them along with the
resulting violence and anger that they entail...

> Now, if you were daft enough to *believe* the stereotypes..... :-(

 Do you doubt that this happens? I would say that it is much more naive
to assume that it does not happen than to believe the statements to begin with -
take a look around europe these days if you need more of a clue...

			gln


Newsgroups: rec.humor,de.talk.jokes,eunet.jokes