From: strom@watson.ibm.com (Rob Strom)
Subject: Missionizing to 2-year-olds (was Re: knowing HaShem)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 14:48:41 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM Research

In article <1992Jul23.150454.9446@col.hp.com>, danl@col.hp.com (Daniel Lockhart) writes:
|> strom@watson.ibm.com (Rob Strom) writes:
|> > In article <l6p1pdINN5er@pollux.usc.edu>, kjh@pollux.usc.edu (Kenneth J. Hendrickson) writes:
|> > |> Rob [Levene],
|> > |> 	We (believers in Yeshua) are not interested in having "positive
|> > |> relations" with you, as an end in itself.  What we are interested in is
|> > |> having you come to know HaShem, and be saved from your sins.  Everything
|> > |> else is secondary, and pales in importance to your eternal destiny.  But,
|> > |> if having "positive relations" will be a means to further this important
|> > |> end, then we're all for it.
|> > |> 
|> > I think that the above very frankly states what Messianic "Judaism" and all
|> > similar evangelical movements are about.  You have only one goal ---
|> > to convert us to Christianity.  Anything else you do is only
|> > a means to that end.
|> > 
|> > That's why it's important for me to know who you all are
|> > so that my children are safe from you until they reach
|> > an age when they understand who you are and what you
|> > are trying to do.  It's why my 7-year-old child is not allowed
|> > to take a walk alone with her aunt and uncle.
|> > -- 
|> Just an outsider's point of view Rob, I see it as someone trying to let you
|> know that the bridge is out up ahead.  If you want to drive off the end, that's
|> your decision.  

The long-time posters on this group already know this, but
some newer posters do not.

I am Jewish, but support religious pluralism.  While
it may be intellectually interesting to discuss and
debate with Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, or atheists,
ultimately I am more interested in understanding
others' views on religion than in changing them.

So why do I spend so much time arguing, sometimes emotionally, with
Messianics and other evangelicals?  An important reason
relates to the subject of this thread ---
the acceptability of missionizing to the young
children of non-believers --- children as young as 2.

I find it absolutely intolerable that some individuals
are so convinced not only that their religion is
true but that believers in other religions are 
in danger, that they are willing to tell tiny children
of non-believers that they will die or burn in
hell if they don't believe in Jesus.

I don't believe it's like telling me that the bridge
is out up ahead.  I believe it's like my going to
your kids and telling them that you're poisoning
their milk and cookies and they'd better run away.  I view
it as manipulative, abusive, and a violation of
trust.  

My youngest child is not allowed to ever be alone
with her aunt and uncle because my when my older
children were 4 and 2 they were at a beach resort
with my wife's brother and sister and their
spouses, and during a *one hour* period of
walking and swimming in the ocean they were told
that they would burn if they didn't believe in
Jesus.  My son, who was having trouble swimming,
was told that he was sinking in the water because
he didn't believe.

Although some messianics and evangelicals have denounced
this practice, (and some have sent me e-mail to
that effect), a significant number of them have not
only not denounced it, but defended it with arguments
similar to those of Mr. Lockhart.  Evangelical Christians
are everywhere. It is frightening to realize
that a baby sitter, a dance teacher, a camp counselor, a day-care provider,
might feel it's the Lord's command to try to "save"
my children because "everything else is secondary".

I think it's abuse bordering on the criminal and Messianics should
*officially* repudiate it.  Then we can go back to having
nice detached intellectual debates on what Daniel 9 means
and so forth.

-- 
Rob Strom, strom@watson.ibm.com, (914) 784-7641
IBM Research, 30 Saw Mill River Road, P.O. Box 704, Yorktown Heights, NY  10598