HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: clark@synergy.encinitas.ca.us (John Clark)
Subject: Re: Mach vs. NT?
Organization: Synergy Microsystems, Inc. CA. USA
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 01:59:31 GMT

In article <5ceb4a29.cb12@dabo.citi.umich.edu> Jim.Rees@umich.edu writes:
+>In article <J8DNVB1w165w@bluemoon.use.com>, wjg@bluemoon.use.com (william grimm) writes:
+>
+>  And, I believe MS hired the 
+>  developer of Mach- not sure about this, though.
+>
+>I don't know if you really want to say that Rashid is "the" developer of
+>Mach.  Certainly many other people worked on it too.  But my understanding
+>is that he is head of the research lab at Microsoft and had little to do
+>with Windows NT.

For a comparison, Microsoft has had a 'un*x' source license since V7, but DOS
never has even come close, either externally or internally. So the fact
that a major 'mach' contributor is on staff probably bears little significance
to eventual products. (who knows, there may be a chorus line in the offing..)


Newsgroups: comp.os.mach
From: edwardj@microsoft.com (Edward Jung)
Subject: Re: Mach vs. NT?
Date: 22 Dec 92 08:35:43 GMT
Organization: Strategy Division, Microsoft Corp.

Rick Schneeman writes:

>NT is *not* a microkernel-based OS; NT is *not* based on Mach, nor is
>it blah blah blah; You ask how do I know such things, well, Dave Cutler
>(Microsoft Corporation), and the architect of NT made this observation 
>in a speech at the Micro-Kernel Workshop on Monday April, 27 1992. Maybe
>your confusing the Cairo project that Rick Rashid (from CMU, now with
>Microsoft) is currently working on - why don't we speculate on that some
>now....

Rick Rashid is the Director of Research at Microsoft and a company
architect. He is not directly participating in the Advanced Systems
project often called "Cairo", although we talk from time to time.

--
Edward Jung, Software Architect     edwardj@microsoft.com
Advanced Systems, Microsoft Corp.
Newsgroups: comp.os.mach
Subject: re: How to get Mach; Mach for Mac?
From: chanson@mtlookitthat.chi.il.us (Chris Hanson)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 12:08:09 CDT
X-Mailer: Fernmail 1.1 (unregistered, shareware fee not paid)

00bwanderson@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu (Bruce Anderson) writes:
] Hello.  I have a few questions which (in lieu of a FAQ) I think can be answered
] here.  First, how do I get Mach for any platform?  I understand it is at CMU,
] but which address do we need to use to FTP?

Try ftp.cs.cmu.edu -- if you can use ftp interactively, just hunt for
it.  It's also at plains.nodak.edu [I think that's the right site
name].

] Second, is the OS available for the Macintosh?

Yes and no.  It's available because CMU (from what I've heard -- some
of this info's really old and probably has changed) will be releasing
MacMach with the UNIX emulator and everything free or real cheap.  The
problem is that it requires an AT&T ****ing source code license because
CMU, in their finite wisdom, has USED AT&T CODE IN THE UNIX EMULATOR!!
WHENEVER ANYONE ASKS ABOUT CMU RELEASING THE NON-AT&T SOURCE CODE THEY
CLAM UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [ARE YOU LISTENING CMU?!?!]  [<-- sorry for the
flame - nobody take it personally PLEASE, but I think an explanation is
seriously in order.  Imagine how some of us with Macs that would like
to take advantage of this technology feel.]

Therefore, I've decided to start my own effort towards a Mach port.
I'm starting with the mk75default system, using GCC under Minix to
bootstrap it, and I'm going to make myself a working Mach.  As soon as
I get the kernel compiled and linked and runnable for even a fraction
of a second, I will post a note of triumph to this group and will
release my efforts to the world.  I hate duplicating work, but if CMU's
just going to sit on their thumbs I may as well go to it.  If anyone
wants to help (or has any hints on doing this port), contact me.

] If so, which Macs are capable
] us utilising it?  If not, why not? 8^)

I don't know about CMU's MacMach.  Mine will probably only run on 020
machines with a PMMU (even an LC with a PMMU somehow installed) or 030
machines (I don't know how different the MMU architectures are between
the 030 and the 040 so someone else can handle this -- I might end up
borrowing code from the AmigaMach people).  Mine will probably run
first off on the Mac IIci, since I'm going to be talking to hardware.
Eventually support for other Macs, including the original series
(+/SE/Classic) with accelerators should come about.  But I'm
netdreaming right now -- I'll let you go.

] Many thanks in advance,
] Bruce

No problem, Bruce.

TTFN,
Chris
---
Chris Hanson -- chanson@mtlookitthat.chi.il.us
"Join the Illuminati and see the world... differently."
 -- SJG GURPS Illuminati manual
From: mrt+@CS.CMU.EDU (Mary Thompson)
Newsgroups: comp.os.mach
Subject: Re: Getting mach information
Date: 21 Dec 92 19:22:40 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.BzMJ5w.80K.1
Organization: Carnegie Mellon University

-----------------------------

The best way to start finding out information about Mach is to browse
our FTP public directory on mach.cs.cmu.edu <128.2.209.192>. You can FTP
to there as user anonymous or access it as /afs/cs.cmu.edu/project/mach/public
if you are running AFS. Read the file doc/mach_bib.doc before attempting to
find documentation.

A couple of general OS texts now have chapters on Mach.

					Mary Thompson
					Project Mach Distribution Manager
Newsgroups: comp.os.mach
From: ekl@kvamdata.no (Eirik Lygre)
Subject: Re: Mach vs. NT?
Organization: Kvam data as
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 20:28:32 GMT

In article <1992Dec21.192229.27548@rchland.ibm.com> tmaas@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (Anthony Maas) writes:
>
>Cairo is more commonly known as Windows NT(New Technology),  
> Microsoft's supposed foray into the world of OO Operating Systems.
> It won't be out however, until sometime next year(or later - 
> the earliest I've heard is Q3 next year, although I could be, and 
> probably am, wrong...)  I'd wait for NeXTSTEP '486 to come out 
> myself... which will also probably be Q3 next year.
>
>Tony Maas
>IBM Rochester, MN
>Email to maas@cs.uwlax.edu NOT tmaas@laxband.rchland.ibm.com - NeXTmail preferred.
>

This is wrong. Cairo is not the same as Windows NT. Cairo is the codename
for Microsofts next generation user interface. Do not expect to see Cairo
(or a product of cairo technology) until 1994. Cairo has been showed
publicly at least once, about 6 weeks back.

For more information about Cairo, ask questions on comp.os.ms-windows.*.
It probably won't do anything, good, though, as not much is known about
Cairo.

To make a short reference to mach: Microsoft now employes several of the
former mach-researchers (I believe one of them was leading the mach
project); these people now work mainly on Cairo, and not on Windows NT.
It would probably be safe to assume, though, that the do "consultancy
work" with the NT group -- they do know some microkernel stuff, after
all.

Eirik

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Eirik Lygre                                     Phone:    +47 4 623766
Kvam data as                                    Fax  :    +47 4 623985
PO Box 1101 Lura                                Email: ekl@kvamdata.no
N-4301  SANDNES, NORWAY
======================================================================
From: jkh@whisker.lotus.ie (Jordan K. Hubbard)
Newsgroups: comp.os.mach
Subject: Two zombies - MDOS emulator and BSDSS server?
Date: 24 Dec 92 04:29:21 GMT
Distribution: comp
Organization: Lotus Development Ireland

I haven't heard hide-nor-hair of either of these very promising CMU
projects.  I understand that BSDSS has been abandoned due to stained
trousers on the part of certain CMU folks, but the dos emulator?  Has
it simply died from lack of interest?

Or perhaps I'm simply poorly informed.  Any information is, of course,
greatly appreciated.

					Jordan

--
Jordan Hubbard		Lotus Development Ireland	jkh@whisker.lotus.ie
I DO NOT SPEAK FOR LOTUS - IT HAS PLENTY OF LAWYERS TO DO THAT FOR IT ALREADY
Newsgroups: comp.os.mach
From: jrb@csi.compuserve.com (Joe Beauchamp)
Subject: re: 16550's
Organization: CompuServe Incorporated
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 21:36:37 GMT

In article <1992Dec28.152533.25758@chpc.org> ralf@chpc.org (Ralph Valentino) writes:
>I just upgraded my pc's serial card to 16550A's and I've been having
>problems with Mach (mk77 ux37).  Mouse access from them seem fine, but
>if I send any character to a serial port via getty, kermit, or even
>cat, the system locks up tight - so tight it won't even enter the
>debugger.
>
>If I disable the fifo right after I test if it's there, (in
>mk/kernel/i386at/com.c) then everything works fine, but of course this
>defeats the whole purpose of the upgrade.
>
>Has anyone run into a similar problem or have any suggestions as to
>how I can track this down?
>
>-Ralph
>
>ps: I tested the fifo capabilities with OS/2 and 2.6MSD; it seems to
>    work fine.
>
>===============
>Ralph Valentino   (ralf@chpc.org)  (ralf@wpi.wpi.edu)
>Hardware Engineer,  Worcester  Polytechnic  Institute
>Center for High Performance Computing, Marlborough MA

The 16550 turns on 2 unused bits in one of the status registers to let the user know
that it is an enhanced 16450/8250.  Windows 3.0 would do horrible things with this
because it used the data in the status register to directly index into a jump table.
Obviously, using whatever address is in location 10xx is not the same as using whatever
is in location 00xx.  Your symptoms sound very similar.

This is the 1st time I've "tried" to post something in news, so I apologize if I've
screwed it up...

	Joe B.
Newsgroups: comp.os.mach
From: tmaas@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (Anthony Maas)
Subject: Re: Mach vs. NT?
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 19:22:29 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM Rochester

In article <BzLpC2.pH@alsvid.une.edu.au>, mark@alsvid.une.edu.au (Mark Garrett Internet: mark@arvak.une.edu.au Phone: +61 66 20 3859) writes:
|> 
|> 	So what's this Cairo project? The name rings a bell.
|> 
|> 
|> 		Mark :)


Cairo is more commonly known as Windows NT(New Technology),  Microsoft's supposed foray into the world of OO Operating Systems.  It won't be out however, until sometime next year(or later - the earliest I've heard is Q3 next year, although I could be, and probably am, wrong...)  I'd wait for NeXTSTEP '486 to come out myself... which will also probably be Q3 next year.

Tony Maas
IBM Rochester, MN
Email to maas@cs.uwlax.edu NOT tmaas@laxband.rchland.ibm.com - NeXTmail preferred.

Newsgroups: comp.os.mach
From: ralf@chpc.org (Ralph Valentino)
Subject: 16550's
Organization: Center For High Performance Computing
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 15:25:33 GMT

I just upgraded my pc's serial card to 16550A's and I've been having
problems with Mach (mk77 ux37).  Mouse access from them seem fine, but
if I send any character to a serial port via getty, kermit, or even
cat, the system locks up tight - so tight it won't even enter the
debugger.

If I disable the fifo right after I test if it's there, (in
mk/kernel/i386at/com.c) then everything works fine, but of course this
defeats the whole purpose of the upgrade.

Has anyone run into a similar problem or have any suggestions as to
how I can track this down?

-Ralph

ps: I tested the fifo capabilities with OS/2 and 2.6MSD; it seems to
    work fine.

===============
Ralph Valentino   (ralf@chpc.org)  (ralf@wpi.wpi.edu)
Hardware Engineer,  Worcester  Polytechnic  Institute
Center for High Performance Computing, Marlborough MA
Newsgroups: comp.os.mach
From: tmaas@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (Anthony Maas)
Subject: Re: Mach vs. NT?
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 15:57:06 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM Rochester

In article <1992Dec21.192229.27548@rchland.ibm.com>, tmaas@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (Anthony Maas) writes:
|> Cairo is more commonly known as Windows NT(New Technology),  Microsoft's supposed foray into the world of OO Operating Systems. 


I'll admit it - I was wrong.  Everything I had heard, from the NeXT point of view, was that Cairo and Windows NT were one in the same.  I have since been corrected on that point.  Can someone who actually knows what they're talking about fill me in too?  Thanks...

Tony Maas
IBM Rochester, MN
From: cbarber@bbn.com (Chris Barber)
Newsgroups: comp.os.mach
Subject: Re: Mach book?
Date: 29 Dec 92 15:41:41 GMT
Organization: Bolt Beranek and Newman (BBN)
NNTP-Posting-Host: litchi.bbn.com

In article <1hnviqINNo33@transfer.stratus.com> dswartz@sw.stratus.com 
(Dan Swartzendruber) writes:
>What ever happened to the Mach book that was supposed to be out a
>while ago?

I hear it will be out in March or so. Until then you will have
to rough it.



-- 
Christopher Barber
(cbarber@bbn.com)
Newsgroups: comp.os.mach
From: knee@netcom.com (Mark Lanett)
Subject: Re: How to get Mach; Mach for Mac?
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 06:17:02 GMT

dswartz@sw.stratus.com (Dan Swartzendruber) writes:

>This I don't understand.  I'm running A/UX now.  It runs on the naked metal and emulates
>the Mac desktop via Unix magic.  Why would you "be locked out of the Unix side"?

I said that to use _both_simultaneously_ you need A/UX or MachTen. When you
launch the MacOS from MacMach it appears to take over; although it's running
from under Mach you'd never be able to tell*. You get no access to unix from
the MacMach MacOS. With A/UX you have the CommandShell and can make unix calls;
with MachTen it's similar. Not so with MacMach.

*Actually, since the machine hung if I attempted to use AppleTalk I guess you
_could_ tell... whether AT is unuseable in this situation or that was a bug
I cannot say.

Mark L
Newsgroups: comp.os.mach
Subject: Re: How to get Mach; Mach for Mac?
From: chanson@mtlookitthat.chi.il.us (Chris Hanson)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 92 19:27:00 CDT
X-Mailer: Fernmail 1.1 (unregistered, shareware fee not paid)

In article <9212242204.AA18763@flammulated.owlnet.rice.edu>
Steve T. Tran <sttran@owlnet.rice.edu> writes:
] <stuff about my Mach that I'm planning deleted>
] Sounds like an interesting project. I'd be willing to contribute some effort --
] I'm interested in sharpening my Mac and UNIX skills and this sounds like a
] good thing (tm) :-).  Would you use something like Net/2 or build from scratch
] like Linux?
 
Mach itself has already been written by the folks at CMU.  Therefore, I
won't be building from scratch or anything.  I "simply" :-) have to
hack it up to run on the 68030-based Macs.  Also, Mach itself isn't
really a UNIX - it's a microkernel upon which an OS (one that's
UNIX-like, like the BSD Net/2 Single Server, or non-UNIX-like, like
something-else-I-haven't-heard-of-yet) can be built.  I have yet to
study the kernel docs proper from OSF -- it's a few hundred pages
worth of PostScript, and I don't have the resource$ to blow in getting
it printed.  I also don't have GhostScript, so I can't sit at home and
wear out a few ink cartridges on my DeskJet.  [Aside -- does anyone
know where I can get plain text versions of these OSF Mach 3 docs?
Thanx.]

If you still want to help, let me know.  I'd suggest getting the
microkernel code off an ftp site (probably a .cs.cmu.edu site, since
they should have the latest) -- I've got version mk75 right now.  I
also suggest that if we work together we use the same kind of
environment -- GCC, GAS, GNU ld, and in general a UNIX-like development
system.  Of course, minix would be cool, but you could probably do just
as well under A/UX or MachTEN (which is already Mach-based) or whatever
(though MPW won't cut it -- I've tried).

Either way, I'll probably fill in y'all with my "plan for porting" as
soon as I get it completely worked out.  That way y'all can criticize it
to your collective hearts' content and I can use that feedback to modify
what I'm doing.

Happy holidays, and thanx for letting me blather on...
Chris
---
Chris Hanson -- chanson@mtlookitthat.chi.il.us
"Join the Illuminati and see the world... differently."
 -- SJG GURPS Illuminati manual
From: dswartz@sw.stratus.com (Dan Swartzendruber)
Newsgroups: comp.os.mach
Subject: Re: How to get Mach; Mach for Mac?
Date: 23 Dec 92 22:33:51 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: redondo.sw.stratus.com

In article <1992Dec23.210000.7920@netcom.com>, knee@netcom.com (Mark Lanett) writes:
> dswartz@sw.stratus.com (Dan Swartzendruber) writes:
> 

[my bitching deleted]

> MacMach was a partnership w/ Apple and has a bit of proprietary stuff in it;
> that was to be covered in the general license. I don't know but imagine that
> some of it was in the kernal also. I'd be surprised if ANY part of MacMach
> could be distributed freely.

Fine, but what does any possible proprietary Apple code have to do with
requiring an AT&T license?


> Mark L
> -- 
> /* Mark Lanett */

-- 

#include <std_disclaimer.h>

Dan S.
From: bershad+@cs.cmu.edu (Brian Bershad)
Newsgroups: comp.os.mach
Subject: Re: Two zombies - MDOS emulator and BSDSS server?
Date: 24 Dec 92 15:24:36 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.Bzrs51.Dy4.1
Distribution: comp
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

>From: jkh@whisker.lotus.ie (Jordan K. Hubbard)
>[1] Two zombies - MDOS emulator and BSDSS server?
>
>I haven't heard hide-nor-hair of either of these very promising CMU
>projects.  I understand that BSDSS has been abandoned due to stained
>trousers on the part of certain CMU folks, but the dos emulator?  Has
>it simply died from lack of interest?
>
>Or perhaps I'm simply poorly informed.  Any information is, of course,
>greatly appreciated.
>
>                                        Jordan
>

BSDSS remains under development at CMU, although it is no longer being
freely distributed.

Active work on the DOS emulator has stopped, although Rob Malan continues
to fix bugs.  

	Brian
From: jcrw@fmg.bt.co.uk (Jeremy Wilson)
Newsgroups: comp.object
Subject: Re: OO & transaction handling systems
Date: 22 Dec 92 09:59:17 GMT
Organization: British Telecom
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

David Edwards /DP (ded@kps.se) wrote:
: 
: Hello.
: 
: Being a neophyte to OO design & programing, I am wondering how 
: suitable OO based systems are for handling large amounts of data in 
: the form of transactions. The system we are dealing with today is data 
: collection and invoicing for large numbers of customers. (150.000 
: customers billing 1,000,000 transactions / month).

: 1) Am I breaking new ground here if I jump into OO? 
:    Does anybody have any experience out there with similar kinds of
:    systems that are OO?


No! You are not breaking new ground but I guess the ground is still not that 
 much cultivated.

There is an interesting article on OO and Transaction Processing  by 
 John  Tibbetts of Kinexis in OOPSLA 91, Phoenix, Arizona, 6-11 October, 
 which deals with precisely the kind of issues you are raising. 

 There is quite a bit of work going on in this area. If you want a good book 
 on OO databases, a good start is ``OO databases'' by John Hughes, published 
 by Prentice-Hall.

+---------------------------------+----------------------------------------+
! Jeremy Wilson			  !	email: jcrw@fmg.bt.co.uk           !
! Room 3-07                       !     Telephone: 0473-227822             !  
! BT Development and Procurement  !     International: +44 473-227822      !
! Bibb Way			  !     Facsimile: 0473-210182             !
! IPSWICH                         !     International: +44 473-210182      !
! Suffolk  IP1 2EQ                !     Telex: 987705                      !
! United Kingdom                  !     International: +51 987705          !
!  				  !     				   !
+---------------------------------+----------------------------------------+
From: Des.Kenny@bbs.actrix.gen.nz
Subject: Re: OOA&D Methodologies
Organization: Actrix Information Exchange
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 22:49:59 GMT
Summary: Case tools 
Keywords: Case Tools, European Community, Esprit II , Business Class Project 

In article <1992Dec18.232357.20910@cbnewsm.cb.att.com> trix@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (t.roger.kiang) writes:
> >Another topic I would like to bring up is CASE tools-- especially OO
> >CASE tools.  So far I am not very impressed but I would buy any CASE
> >tool that allows me to annotate any diagram artifact (this is critical
> >to capturing the HOW and WHY of your analysis and design so that you
> >do not forget and so others can step into your mind).
> >
> >Thanks for listening.
> >
> >Jim O'Hearn,
> >Software Engineer
> >Beckman Instruments Inc., Diagnostic Systems Group

Contact: 

Dr Jean_Marc Nerson, Societe des Outils du Logiciel in Paris.
email : marc@eiffel.fr

The EC Esprit II Business Class project is developing a CASE tool
to implement the BON methodology, developed by the Business Class Project.

I have seen a demo of the system at Tools USA. It looked very promising.

I suggest you contact Jean_Marc to find out more details.

Des Kenny
Objective Methods Ltd
PO Box 17356
Wellington
New Zealand
Phone: 64 4 476 9499
Fax:   64 4 476 9237
Email: Des.Kenny@bbs.actrix.gen.nz



Newsgroups: comp.object
From: Bob Hathaway <objsys@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: A Pre-Release FAQ
Organization: Object Systems
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 21:10:09 GMT

First, I really did want to thank all the people who've sent in suggestions
on the FAQ!  There have been many good ideas, references, and etc.  There
should be an added contributor section on the cover.

In article <LOU.92Dec30125016@atanasoff.rutgers.edu> lou@cs.rutgers.edu writes:
>bugs in Y, what are good books on Z...).  More philosophical /
>perspective issues like "what is an object" are pretty much immune to
>concensus.  It is not simply "difficult to satisfy everyone at first",
>it is impossible to satisfy everyone, period, because people have
>flatly irreconcilable ideas.

Yes, it is difficult to satisfy everyone as I have found in the past.  But I
did try to stay objective with the primary languages and ideas in the field.
There were a few occasions where I strayed, such as with object (and even
generics) and these are being cleared up.  As far as staying with the commonly
asked questions, I tried to recall what I'd seen before and know that many,
many commonly asked questions remain to be added; its in progress!  If you
notice any missing perpetuitous questions, please send them in.

Happy New Year!
bob
objsys@netcom.com
From: jwd@corrado.denver.sgi.com (John W Davis)
Newsgroups: comp.object
Subject: Object-Oriented DataBase
Date: 31 Dec 92 00:42:01 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.

I've had numerous requests from customers wanting to know
if a good ObjectOriented data base exists on SGI; evidently SUN has
something called "ObjectVision(sp?)"; these folk want to be able to
hot key or hyperlink data (images video et al) into a data base that
is object-oriented...any help will be appreciated...
-- 
***********************************************************************
	John W Davis		|
	Systems Engineer	|	email: jwd@denver.sgi.com
	Silicon Graphics, Inc.	|	vmail:		9230
	4600 So Ulster St	|	Phone: 303 796 0022
	Englewood Colo 80237	|	Fax  : 303 796 0438
**********************************************************************	
Newsgroups: comp.object