Newsgroups: bit.listserv.gaynet
Date:         Sat, 11 Apr 1992 04:12:49 -0400
From:         gaynet@ATHENA.MIT.EDU
Subject:      GayNet Digest Volume 5 Issue 272

In this issue:
                                bye bye
                               Rotc Story
                      LGB issues in the UC system
           New U.California President AND in re John Morrison
                          in re John Morrison
                              Mailing List
                      feminism is NOT "misandric"
                       Elections here at Potsdam
                         Looking for citations.

Please send messages for the entire list to gaynet@ATHENA.MIT.EDU,
requests to be added or deleted to gaynet-request@ATHENA.MIT.EDU, and
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Postings to GayNet are public communications.  If you must keep your
privacy, send your messages to gaynet-anonymous@ATHENA.MIT.EDU.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:         Fri, 10 Apr 92 16:46:16 EST
From: Christopher Robyn <CTMCDA00@UKCC.uky.edu>
Subject:      bye bye

HEY!

please unsubscribe me

THANKS!

------------------------------

From: awerling@NMSU.Edu
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 14:58:05 MDT
Subject: Rotc Story

Howdy.  I'm trying this again.  Mark Stahl was wonderful enough
to reformat this and so I'm resending it.  It's so much more readable this
time!  (Thanks Mark!)

- ---
From mes%scutum.ece.cmu.edu Fri Apr 10 14:30:29 1992
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Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 16:30:15 EDT
From: Mark Edward Stahl <mes%scutum.ece.cmu.edu>
Message-Id: <9204102030.AA10964@scutum.ece.cmu.edu>
To: awerling%nmsu.edu
Subject: Re: rotc story
Status: R

Thanks for the offer to mail me a copy of your article, but I no
longer need it.  I grabbed a copy of your article from the Internet
BBoard.  I reformatted what I could, so here's a copy that should make
things easier to distribute.  Feel free to contact me if you need help
on distributing this through email.  I'd be glad to help.

I can only assume that the complete story survived the trip over the
net.  If anything is missing, could you please mail me an updated
copy.  Just so you are aware, point 6 was ommitted from the list of
DoD rationals.  Also, you might want to edit the article to include
the title, date published, and where published so others can reference
it easier.

Hope this helps you out.  Good article.

-  mark stahl

- -------------- Include: REFORMATTED ROTC STORY -------------------
Here's a copy of the ROTC story I wrote for THE PHOENIX, the magazine
at New Mexico State University.


"As of January 16, 1981, the Pentagon has seven, official, articulated
reasons for banning gays:

"The presence of such members adversely affects the ability of the
armed forces
 [1] to maintain discipline, good order and morale,
 [2] to foster mutual trust and confidence among servicemembers,
 [3] to insure the integrity of the system of rank and command,
 [4] to facilitate assignment and worldwide deployment of
servicemembers who frequently must live and work under close
conditions affording minimal privacy,
 [5] to recruit and maintain members of the armed forces, and
 [7] to prevent breaches of security."
(as provided in a gay and lesbian-related computer digest by Ed
Lisowki, as quoted from GAY/JUSTICE, by Richard Mohr.)

The policy that forbids homosexuals from joining the military
encompasses all areas of the military.  This includes campus ROTC's
across the country, and NMSU ROTC department head, Colonel Michael
Clark, expressed the importance of the fact that it is not a
specifically ROTC policy.  He says it comes straight from the office
of the Departmend of Defense (DoD).  A gay NMSU student, who wishes to
remain anonymous, recently spent eight years in active duty in the
navy, and the DoD policy is the exact reason he is no longer in the
military.

"I was out to some really close friends," he says about life on a navy
ship.  "There was a group of family members (homosexuals of either
gender) on the ship.  Everything was cool.  It was very secretive.
There were at least seven members who were high-ranking officers.  It
was like a big closet.

"When we worked we did our jobs; we were very respected for our work,
although nobody knew (that we were gay).  We had to follow rules
because we were so scared of one getting caught, getting scared and
spilling the beans on all of us."  That's what happened to him,
however.  He lied about his sexuality in order to get security
clearance required for commission, and someone, indeed, "spilled the
beans."  He was given two options; either admit his homosexuality and
receive an honorable discharge, or get court marshalled, and if he was
found guilty, receive a dishonorable discharge.

"By this time I was fed up with hiding," he says.  "I went ahead and
admitted to it.  I was discharged honorably a month later.  I have
full V.A. benefits and all that."

He was a 4.0 sailor.  "The doctors I worked with were very cool about
it.  The supported 100% my decision.  Even to this day I still keep in
contact with them.

"If there's any changes in statues in the military after I get my
degree (at NMSU) I could say I would join the active reserves.  I
really enjoy the navy.  They got a lot out of me; I really can't say
anything bad about it.  Right now they're cutting down on military
force and finding different means of cutting down."

He doesn't agree with the stated reasons for banning homosexuals.
"Security risk is not a threat because we're open now," he says.  "I
feel it's very discriminatory.  There were 1500 personnel on that
ship, and around 125 were family, and that's semi-openly.  I'm sure
there were more who were very closeted.  We all worked great together;
we were all there on a mission and we all pulled together and did jobs
great."

The close-quarters of the military did not pose a problem for him
either.  "I lived with 160 personnel in one bearthing compartment.  It
was all pure respect.  I'm gay and if there was another person looking
at me with his tongue hanging out I would be very offended."

Nor was respect and discipline a problem "On the ship, I was out with
this commander.  If he gave me an order I'd do it.  This was for
respect for the chain of command.  There were 250 women on board,
including officers.  A lot of people looked down on that, but still it
was respected."

Another homosexual, who was required to go through two years of ROTC
when he went to school, agrees that the military is full of
homosexuals.  "I work for the army as a civilian and lived in
Germany," he says.  "The German gay bars were full of American GI's.
Also, bars near American bases are full of GI's."

Colonel Clark feels that because this is a DoD policy, national
representative are the people to express complaints to.  "If there are
folks who feel strongly about the DoD policy, NMSU ROTC can't change
the policy.  It does very little to argue with this department.  The
best thing to do is to call your congressional delegation."

Another thing to do, and what people have been doing across the
country, is to deal directly with one's own university.  A sociology
professor at Pitzer College in Claremont, California, says it was as
easy as writing a recommendation and passing it at a faculty meeting.

"Since we already had a non-discrimination clause," he says, "we
passed it under those conditions.  Make sure your campus includes
sexual orientation in its non-discrimination statement, then use the
statement to argue against ROTC."

The Pitzer decision has the effect of allowing nobody enrolled as an
official student of Pitzer to earn credit in ROTC courses.  It's an
odd case, though, because the Claremont facilities house many
different colleges, and Pitzer is the only one affected by the
decision.

At Chico State last May a similar Facutly Senate resolution was
passed.  As reported by David Welton in CENTERSTONE, the newsmagazine
of the Stonewall Alliance of Chico, there are three parts to the
resolution: "eliminate ROTC credit for ROTC courses;...exclude
advertisements, notices, listings and references to...the ROTC
program;...and withdraw faculty status from ROTC instructors."  The
Resolution was implemented by Chico State President Robin Wilson, and
the policy will take effect Fall 1993, to allow current students to
finish their course of the program and continue earning credit for
their coursework.

At the University of Kansas, the University Council (a governing body
comprised both of faculty members and students) passed a somewhat
unusual resolution, which, according to a high-up UK official, "would
require all ROTC cadets and instructors to undergo sensitivity
training regarding gays and lesbians."  The rationale is that "the
policy will change eventually, so start getting the military ready
now."

At Carnegie Mellon University, the non-discrimination policy has
included sexual orientation since 1988.  A contact at the university
says that, "At CMU, ROTC is a financial aid program, not an academic
program."  Students who join ROTC receive some money to help with
college expenses.  The contact relates the following story:

"Last January, a freshman midshipman was outted to his commanding
officer by a friend that he confided in.  The student's scholarship
was frozen, and he was not allowed to attend ROTC activities (such as
the summer cruise required of all Navy ROTC students).  The commander
of Navy ROTC requested that the student get a psychiatric evaluation
to prove he was gay, and then would be permitted to disenroll.  The
student contacted the gay/lesbian/bisexual group on campus, which put
him in touch with a lawyer on the faculty.  In September, the student
was permitted to disenroll without having to undergo the psychiatric
evaluation.

"The October issue of FOCUS, the faculty and staff newspaper, printed
an article on this story, after which the student senate passed a
resolution forbidding ROTC as an organization to participate in any
student-funded activity, such as CMU's spring carnival."

All of these options are possible, though none have been attempted
yet.  According to Colonel Clark, nobody has expressed a problem with
the policy to him or any one who currently works in the ROTC
department.

"The military science curriculum is open to anyone enrolled in the
university," he says.  "When a student reaches their junior year, they
have an option.  They can come and ask to contract with the U.S. Army.
I cannot contract anybody who says they are homosexual into advanced
courses.  They can take the courses for universtiy credit as free
electives, but we can't let them wear the army uniform.  We can't
contract them because we can't commission them."

A bisexual woman who used to be enrolled in ROTC says that "women in
the military, especially the navy, are expected to get pregnant
immediately or be considered dykes.  They get harrassed until they
prove otherwise by getting pregnant.  The men in the military MUST
prove their manhood.  They feel threatened by homosexuals and women,
so they retaliate in shame."

The policy as it stands creates problems in minds of those considering
enrollment in ROTC.  One woman says that "homosexuals should be in the
military and be openly homosexual, not in the closet.  I'll support
the military if it will support me."


- -----

Andrew Werling  awerling@nmsu.edu


- ---

------------------------------

From: MAC@hup.ucla.edu
Date:     10 Apr 92 14:57:05 PST
Subject:  LGB issues in the UC system
X-Pmrqc:  1

Ron;

Jack Peltason, presently the Chancellor of UC Irvine, is taking over
the Presidency of the UC system.  The NETWORK is currently
investigating his record on our behalf.  It is noteworthy that there
is a history of serious problems with the "Community" and the City of
Irvine itself.  The city, I seem to recall, actually passed some
homophobic ordinance condoning housing descrimination.  At about the
same time, there was a stink about married student housing for same-
sex couples.  The Orange County Gay/Lesbian Pride Celebration was
hottly protested by local clergy, and an ACT-UP demonstration
involving some minor skirmishes ensued.  At the actual festival, a
contingent of bigots (highly indiginous to Orange County) protested
just off the grounds, and at one point, police forced the entire
crowd (the festival attendees!) to lie down, face-down on the ground.
This was 1989, and I'm not looking at a newspaper, but this is how
these events have survived in my memory.

I'll update you on Peltason as data becomes available.


To the person requesting wording on University non-discrimination
policies;

Last October, I recieved the following letter from the Chancellor of
UCLA.  To his credit, Charles Young has a terrific history on all
forms of campus diversity (he was a candidate for the UC
presidency).  This letter was issued three weeks after Pete Wilson
vetoed AB101 and three days after the Chancellor shared a podium with
Pete and former Gov Dukemajian at the dedication of the new law
school.  The ceremony had a higher attendance of activists than
invited guests, and as the ceremony was held outside, Pete couldn't
be heard by the person next to him.  George fled without speaking at
all.  An internal effort had most of the invited guests waering large
pink triangles which read, "Wilson is a Liar".

I'll send the text of the letter Monday.  I'm outa here!  It's a
beach weekend.

Mac Phillips
Honors and Undergraduate Programs
College of Letters and Science
UCLA

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 16:20:55 -0700
From: Jessea N. R. Greenman <jnrg@ocf.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject: New U.California President AND in re John Morrison

The new President (top dog in this structure) of the nine campus UC system
was previously Chancellor of the Irvine campus.  There he had both
student support and opposition.  According to an article in the mainstream
San Fran press, Peltason first favored building the new Chancellor's
residence on a site inhabited by a rare bird spcies, which would have
been eliminated if its habitat had been destroyed during the construction.
He changed his position on this issue.  He also opposed allowing same-sex
couples to live in student "family" housing (as had Berkeley'sprevious
Chancellor; one campus had approved same-sex couples in family housing
but later had to withdraw this policy due to opposition from higher up
(the President's office and the Regents).  On THIS latter issue,
Peltason remarked that he did not want to take the flack for "setting
a UC precedent."  He did not alter his position.  Now HE is President.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 16:34:31 -0700
From: Jessea N. R. Greenman <jnrg@ocf.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject: in re John Morrison

I have not read Mr. Morrison's piece in Christopher Street.  I have read
a series of long essays he published in the San Francisco Sentinel about
why he believes that feminism is hurting men.It is fine that his ideas be
 discussed but I take issue with a previous
post that claimed Morrison documents his ideas.  That was not the case
in his Sentinel series.  Thus, those who chose to discuss his reasoning
are well-advised, when weighing how much time/effort to devote to such
discussion, to consider that he did not document in the Sentinel.  Since
I disagree with the ideas he supposedly presented in CS according to the
synopsis here (lesbians' role in Shanti) based on my personal experience
with both Shanti Project people and lesbians' role in AIDS issues in
San Francisco Bay Area, it seems implausible that he was able to
advance much credible documentation for this argument, since there isn't any.

------------------------------

From: PETER@hup.ucla.edu
Date:     10 Apr 92 16:40:32 PST
Subject:  Mailing List

To whom it may concern:

    My name is Peter Hayashida.  Please add me to your mailing list.
My address is:

    PETER@HUP.UCLA.EDU

    Thank you.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 21:37:23 EDT
From: Tim Pierce <twpierce@cs.amherst.edu>
Subject: feminism is NOT "misandric"

Eromenos <RMILLER@carleton.edu> said:

>     Feminism has degenerated into a form of
>     right-wing censorship and deceitful sexism, something that courageous
>     writers like John Morrison and Camille Paglia have had the courage not
>     only to oppose, but to document. For all the strength of his anger
>     towards feminism, Morrison is very careful to make distinctions in his
>     criticisms.

For all Morrison's eloquently rhetorical disclaiming, he appears to
provide no evidence for any of his assertions.  Since you seem to be
such a religious follower of his, I'm interested in seeing some sort
of evidence from you.  In what way has feminism become "right-wing
censorship" and "deceitful sexism?"

>     Morrison's discussion of the participation of women in the Shanti
>     Project is not the real point. It is about the sexism that is
>     feminism.

I am appalled that a queer person could even imagine such a thing.

>     His basic message is that the feminist agenda is hostile to men, and
>     that the lesbian feminist agenda is hostile to gay men.

Here is where he -- and you, it seems -- make your most evident and
fatal slip: concluding that there exists a concrete, organized,
representative "lesbian feminist agenda" that is hostile to gay men.

This paragraph sounds no different to me than that of the Straight
White Male (TM) expounding on how the "homosexual agenda" is proof of
the homosexual conspiracy which threatens the moral infrastructure of
the country, the emotional health of our children, etc. etc. ad
nauseam.  It takes precisely the same attitude that a community -- in
this example case, the community of queer people, and in Morrison's
case, the community of lesbian feminists -- can be monolithically
lumped together into a single entity with a single thought and voice.

It takes the belief that feminism or lesbian feminism (I don't see
either of you making a distinction between these two, btw) is an
political entity organized to the point where it has an official
platform and offical stance on gender issues.  It has always been my
impression that feminism, lesbian feminism, gay liberation, and so on
can only be defined as collections of individual philosophies sharing
a few common elements, but diverging radically from one another on
many points.  Unless you can provide some evidence for the existence
of a "lesbian feminist agenda," I am not inclined to listen to any
more of this pap.

-
____ Tim Pierce                /
\  / twpierce@cs.amherst.edu   /            See it and understand.
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 21:45 EDT
From: SCHANK83%snypotva.bitnet@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: Elections here at Potsdam
X-Organization: Potsdam College of the STATE UNIVERSITY OF NEW YORK (SUNY)

Hey all, been a while since I've even looked at my account...  I still have
37 back postings to go through one of these years...

Anyhow, I figured I'd send a post of something positive going on here...  I,
as one of the few openly gay males on this campus, am running for Student
Covernment Association Comptroller.  Among other things, it'd just be nice
to have a queer allocating a $435,000+ budget, don'tcha think?  :)  At the
moment, we are having a run-off election this Tuesday.  Neither myself nor
my opponent got the necessary majority to win the position (at last count,
there were 436 for my opponent and 434 for me, with 123 BLANKS and about 60
write-in votes).  So I must head back to campaigning and getting the word out.
A lot of people don't know or care about the role of comptroller, so there are
a LOT of votes to sway...  And as my name is below the other person's, it's
possible that I lost votes due to people just checking the first name they
saw (on a campus as apathetic as this, it's possible... :l )

Still, thought you all might like to know, for some reason.  :)
Wish me luck on Tuesday.

(By the way, I may get the other guy disequalified due to election deadlines
(i.e. filing financial status, staff list, etc.), which, although not the
greatest way to win, is a victory anyhow.)

A-

------------------------------

Newsgroups: bit.listserv.gaynet
From: cmcl2!panix.com!roy@uunet.UU.NET (Roy Radow)
Subject: Re: Looking for citations.
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 05:15:39 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC

In digest <9204092032.AA16913@Toto.MIT.EDU> gaynet@ATHENA.MIT.EDU writes:

>  I am looking for gay affirmative articles or poetry that is
>focused towards men of colour.  If anyone has any informations
>or citation please e-mail them to me.  The articles or
>poetry should be about Afrikan-American, Asian-American,
>or Hispanic-American gay men.  I would like material that
>is gay affirmative and not pertaining to AIDS or HIV.
>This material is for a project that I am working on.
>Please put your responses on the network or send them
>to me directly.

Try contacting:

BLK, Box 83912, Los Angeles, CA 90083-0912
(213) 410 0808


NAT'L ASSOC OF BLACK & WHITE MEN TOGETHER
584 Castro St # 140, S.F., CA 94114
(415) 431 1976

Pyramid Periodical: Journal for Gay People of Color
Box 1111, Canal St. Station, NY 10013.
(212) 421 3560

National Latino/a Lesbian & Gay Association
Box 44483, Washington, DC, 20026
(202) 544 0092

Other Countries, Box 3142, Church St Station, NY 10008-3142
(212) 505 0506

Yours in Liberation,

Roy














-
Roy Radow		roy@panix.com         ...rutgers!cmcl2!panix!roy
North American Man/Boy Love Association -For a packet containing a sample
Bulletin, publications list and membership information send $1.00 postage
to: NAMBLA Info,  Dept.RR,  PO Box 174,  Midtown Station,  NYC NY  10018.

------------------------------

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