From: gelinas@CAM.ORG (Daniel Gelinas)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Update on Lawmakers
Date: 31 Dec 92 08:20:30 GMT
Organization: Communications Accessibles Montreal, Quebec Canada



        Hello all,

Thank you for all your responses, keep them comming, I'm not totally
finished yet.

So far these changes have been made:
1-Specialize in one weapon only
2-Saving throws are fighter only
3-Meditation penalties made easier
4-Special school made
5-Use of fighter magic items only
6-Polymorph is gone

I believe that the class is more playable now then before.  There are
still some things that I have to deal with.  I have removed their
polymorph, as too many people complained.  What I need now is another
ability to replace that one.  If anyone has ANY ideas, I would like to
hear them.  If you furnish the ability(at it's a good one) I will
furnish the means and the history.

I must now address some issues:

1- Spells.  In response to Paul Kinsler I have these arguments to offer.

Protection from good/evil: You claim that extreme good and extreme
evil are not chaotic, then consider this.  Law-Makers follow the law,
therefore if someone is murdering people, then he should be killed(as
this is the law in most places).  If this murdering person was caught
by an extremely good person, and he murderer replied,"I'm soo sorry I
didn't mean to do it, I've seen the light, I won't do it again", the
good person *might* just believe them and let him live. But this is
not a rational action, logically if the man could not be trusted then
he cannot be trusted now therefore he should be killed.  But a really
good person is clouded by his good'ness and cannot rationally make the
descision.  Therefore I think it is chaotic in the sense that it
prevents or disrupts law.

Wall of Force: Generally, laws tell you what you cannot do.  I believe
that the wall of force is a valid lawful spells because it can prevent
people from doing things they shouldn't.  Of course in the hands of
his enemy, he could be imprisoned.  But I cannot control the actions
of others, only these people, and Lawful Neutral people would use it
well in the pursuit of law.  I didn't say that these spells could not
be used in the pursuit of chaos, what I said was this spell school
(recognised by this class only) has the most potential to be lawful.
In the clerical school of law 'hold person' is listed.  This spell can
prevent law as well, but it has a greater 'potential' to be lawful.

In response to another person(sorry my scroll-back buffer does not
work properly).  I created the school so the DM would not have to
waste time choosing what spells his player can have and which ones he
could not.  Instead, I thought I would do the DM's a favor and print
up a pre-selected school.  I am a DM myself, and I have enouph on my
mind, without having to worry about choosing spells for a particular
player.  Besides The spells will fit very neatly on one page.  **Does
anyone have an spells they think should be added**?  I have taken the
liberty to add 'Bind' to the list as well.  I forgot it in my post.

-----------------------Why I'm Avoiding Priests------------------------


        Many people feel that this class would be better if it were a
priest class.  I understand the argument and have nothing against it
eccept for 2 things.

        I did not want to create a priest class.  I feel that there
are enough.  If I wanted to make it simple, I would have made these
guys into a Lawful-Neutral type Paladin.(that's the only one missing,
we have Lawful-Good Paladins, Lawful-Evil Anti-Paladins)

        But when I created this class I wanted to create a class that
used magic user spells.  There are at present 4 classes that use
priest spells and only 2 that use magic user.  I wanted to create a
unique class which was unlike the other classes available, and this
was what I came up with.  Something that is pretty much between a bard
and a fighter.

        One person have that if magic-users did enforce law, then they
would enfore *their* law and not a 'higher' purpose.  This implies to
me that only priest can follow 'higher' purposes, and everyone else
cannot.  I find this unsettling.  Magic users are just as capable as
priests are to follow a purpose, especially one of alignment.  In fact
their are magic user gods!  I don't think that this is restricted to
the priest class.  Therefore I do not see a problem with the class in
that respect.



For those of you wondering, this class does have a history, but it is
very long and I would not want to bore you, but basically this is it:

Awhile back I had a 1st edition Dual class(human) fighter magic user.
He had pretty incredible stats so be grew in power pretty fast.  It
just so happends he was Lawful Neutral, and toward the end of his
playing days I played his alignment to the letter(to get on other
players nerves ;-)).  After he retired he began to teach his knowledge
to other people.  He explained the advantages of his dual class.
Slowly more people got attracted to it, and this class was the result.
Their thieving abilities came from a ranger I was playing with.  He
taught my students(at my resquest) how to hide in shadows ect, because
my character thought it was important to be well rounded.  This is why
people in this class have a lot of non-weapon proficiencies, they
must take many different things, ranging from spellcraft to dancing.


Note: To one person who responded a long time ago:
I will not include psionics because I believe it would complicate the
character too much.  Besides the magic user spells they get 
compensate for that.  Otherwise I think it would be a perfectly good
class(for you) if you just switch spells for psionics.  Feel free, I
don't have a copywrite on these guys.

Additional note on *meditation*:  Most people thought that meditation
was associated with psionics.  While I see some connection, let me
tell you were it actually came from.  I am a martial artist(in real
life) and we meditate quite frequently.  The reason being a centered
mind can fight better.  Because I gave this class many abilities, I
thought it was an appropriate restriction to have them meditate in
order to center themselves.  It helps relieve the confusion that a
character would orthwise experience in that situation.  I had similar
problems when I tried to learn too many kata's at the same time, I
began to mix them all up!  If I had concentrated more, I wouldn't
have had any problems.  This is why the penalties exist for not
meditating.  If they don't, they get confused. Simple as that!

As some respondants already know, I am open to any comments,
questions, of any type.  Be as direct as you want.  Don't worry about
offending me, I take criticism well, if it is well founded.  I'm
allways up for a debate.

Daniel Gelinas
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd