HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: napalm@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (jason hill)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Okay, so this is dumb, BUT . . .
Date: 25 Jan 1993 17:44:04 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX
NNTP-Posting-Host: doc.cc.utexas.edu

In article <1k0vd3INNs04@digex.digex.com> corun@access.digex.com (Corun MacAnndra) writes:
>a full hod like some people. ;-) So I'm still ducking. <quack!>
>

GOOSE!
[hits corun on the head  and runs franticly around the circle]

isnt reliving childhood fun?
jason

visualise whirled peas
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: nielsenc@spot.Colorado.EDU (Christopher Nielsen)
Subject: Wiccans in Boulder, CO area?
Keywords: Boulder, Wicca, Pagans
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: 29 Jan 93 02:35:50 GMT

I've been reading this newsgroup for about 8 months, and I have enjoyed
reading the postings. However, I was wondering if there are any Wiccans
near me. I would like to meet them if there are any.



Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: S.R.Carlo@daresbury.ac.uk  (S.R. Carlo)
Subject: making contact
Organization: SERC Daresbury Lab., Warrington, U.K.
Distribution: alt.pagan
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 17:51:27 GMT

I have recently been introduced to Wicca thro' a UK based BB.
Can anyone give me any advice on how to make contact with such a group (coven?)
as unlike most religeous groups they certainley don't advertise!
Please reply via email as my time is limited ATM
Thanks
Steve
.


Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: pciszek@nyx.cs.du.edu (Paul Ciszek)
Subject: Re: "Satanic Ritual Abuse"
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 93 03:26:31 GMT

nancyp@techbook.com (Nancy Parsons) writes:

>David then becomes ill, and says that on several occasions he has
>"felt something bad" in his apartment.  He doesn't know for certain,
>but says he is afraid that Jane has something to do with it. 

C. S. Lewis once remarked that the reason people stopped burning witches
was not because they decided that witches were O.K., but rather that 
they realized that the people they were burning weren't really witches.

>We do have a "party line" about abuse of our power, which is that it
>doesn't happen, period.  Saying, or even implying that it does, is
>something we just don't do.  My frustration with that silence is what
>prompted my admittedly testy "axe-grinding" post.  

... and if there were ever any objective, undeniable proof that witches,
sorcerers, wizards, shamans, or whatever could actually DO anything with
magic, you could look for the burnings to begin again.
From: ksm@abb-sc.abb-sc.com (Ashley)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Five sides...
Date: 25 Jan 93 22:43:13 GMT
Organization: Kaos Laboratories


In article <1993Jan24.015605.8713@netcom.com>, spider@netcom.com (Mark Lovell) writes...
> 
>Hi, Newbie here.
> 
>In one tradition I follow this is the pattern:
> 
>         Ether
>   Earth       Air
>     Fire   Water
> 
>Drawn on the body, earth is to the right.


	Hmm, I'd heard that the heavier elements where at the bottom, so if you 
switched earth and fire, you would have the five points as I understand them. I 
never learned which belonged on the left or right though, so I can't help 
there. Any other ideas? Since it comes from ceremonial magick, is there a 
ceremonial magician in the house with very old sources? Probably some 
cabalistic stuff here too. And I've seen it used by Masons too, what does it 
mean to those of you who are Masons and how do you trace the history of it's 
meaning? Where did it pick up it's various connotations in the Masonic 
traditions?

				- Ashley
From: kre@po.CWRU.edu (Keith R. Elflein)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Cleveland Witches
Followup-To: alt.pagan
Date: 22 Jan 1993 22:53:29 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: b61693.student.cwru.edu

Is there ANYONE in the Cleveland area (particularly Case Western Reserve
University) who reads this bulletin board??!! If so, please drop me an
e-mail..i'm looking for fellow pagans around here...there don't seem to be
to many. I am in need of some support. I'm willing to come out of my broom
closet if you are :) my e-mail is kre@po.CWRU.edu  

If there is enough interest, maybe we can start a wiccan support group, or
even our own coven. Better yet, maybe we (I) can find a coven...practicing
alone is great, but one does need the support of others of like mind :)

Blessed be,
Keith


"Double double, toil and trouble...fire burn and cauldron bubble!" -
*hahaha* don't 'ya love it! :)
From: webb@vault.tsd.itg.ti.com (Rosemary Webb)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Ritual Abuse
Date: 26 Jan 1993 17:37:17 GMT
Organization: Texas Instruments, Austin, Tx.
NNTP-Posting-Host: vault.tsd.itg.ti.com

In article <1993Jan26.032825.29947@colorado.edu> burkel@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (a liberal pumpernickel) writes:
>
> < good stuff deleted>
>
>But, um, I don't think there are too many reputable therapists out
>there claiming that satanic abuse is valid. If there are, I guess
>I missed it, sorry.

Unfortunately, there are apparently a number of otherwise logical 
and sane health care professionals who do, indeed believe in SRA.
At least according to a friend of mine who is a free thinker and
a psychiatric nurse.  It's scarey - but apparently it's easier to 
believe (and deal with) that there's a massive conspiracy, so
all the terrible acts come from a single source -- rather than 
(what my perceived truth is) that any number of otherwise 
respectable-seeming people enjoy sexually abusing their own
and the neighbor's kids, and do so frequently and repeatedly.
And set thimselves up in positions of authority (Xtian priests/ 
preachers, scout leaders, babysitters, etc.), the easier to 
indulge in their hobby.

>
>The only thing sad about this, to me, is that satanic cults cut the
>fringe of the unmainstream religions. I don't have to tell anyone
>here that.  I think that what needs to be addressed is how to make
>the leap of logic from"look at all the satanic cult abuse" to, 
>"let's kill all those pagan, ungodly, commie weirdo freaks" UNlogical.
>

One way of limiting that leap of illogic is to explicitly
correct it any time you see it made.  "The police arrest individuals
suspected of criminal activity."  And then emphasize the criminality 
of abuse, of whatever form it takes: ritual, sporadic, using the symbolism
of Judeo-Crhistianity or Sesame Street.

Once you've made that statement, *STOP*.  If you add anything about
religious beliefs, the idiot (from _idios_, "one away from the village")
will remember "arrest" + "odd religious belief" - not that you've argued 
against it.


Best,
Rosemary Webb

Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: an4484@anon.penet.fi
Subject: Masonic Practices??
Organization: Anonymous contact service
X-Anonymously-To: alt.pagan
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 08:52:00 GMT

Date Entered: 01-24-93 03:46


My understanding (as much I guess as an outsider could have) of Masonic
practices would be that they descend from the Knights Templar of around
the time of the middle ages. Their purpose inbeing was to be the guardians
of the Holy Grail.

Funny though....I was talking to a Witch whose grandfather was a Mason and
it seems their beliefs are a little more elaborate than that. It seems that
the whole idea behind Masonry is that Christ as a man was married or at
least had sexual relations with Mary Magdelan which produced offspring.
The Masons  then have one purpose....to defend these descendants of Christ
down through the ages.

And the reason for the secrecy is that the whole premise of the Christian
religion is the fact that Jesus was the Son of God....hence the need for
secrecy. The Witch (who had evidently gleaned this info from her grandfathers
diaries seemed to resent this, in that this means the Masons are basically
defending a lie...namely, Christ as the celibate Son of God who never married
as that might make certain Christian practices/beliefs untenable.

Any comments on this?


... ...
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
To find out more about the anon service, send mail to help@anon.penet.fi.
Due to the double-blind system, any replies to this message will be anonymized,
and an anonymous id will be allocated automatically. You have been warned.
From: altheimm@nextnet.csus.edu (Murray Altheim)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Elemental Oils
Date: 21 Jan 93 19:41:31 GMT
Organization: California State University Sacramento

In article <44-JNEWS-2.1@wonky.UUCP>
    ailsa@wonky.UUCP (Ailsa N.T. Murphy) writes:
>In article <1993Jan19.150525.1@wizard.colorado.edu>,
    windsphire@wizard.colorado.edu writes:
>>
>> Hi! I'm looking for any personal blends of elemental oils. I can't seem to
>> find a good combination for air. I would be interested in any blends which
>> you have tried and liked (-vs- pat formulas from S.C., L.S., H.S. etc). One
>> of my favorites is a variation of the voodoo blend 'Fire of Passsion':
>>
>>         Ambergris
>>         Musk
>>         Civet
>>         Patchouly
>>         Vetivert
>>
>>         (The first three are synthetic! Not assignable to an element
>>          but a very compelling scent.)
>>
>it sounds like it might be, but WHAT PROPORTIONS???  i love mixing my
>iwb scents, and this one has me curious...  a couple of those are things
>i like separately...
>
>                                     -ailsa

ailsa,

My personal favorite is a mixture of 1/4 ambergris, 1/4 Nigerian Musk,
and 1/4 Frankincense and Myrhh, and 1/4 amber oil. Actually, 1/4 is 
pretending to more precision than I operate under. The ambergris acts as
a fixative (and was commonly used as such in perfumes). I dump this into
a glass container full of alcohol and let it sit for awhile. It cerainly
gets better with age, as the alcohol smell disappears. Maybe next time 
I'll try a different kind of alcohol (ol' Grand Dad is kinda pricey).

Blessed Mo Be,

Murray

-- 
Murray M. Altheim      "Ils ont l'orteil de Bouc, & d'un Chevreil l'oreille,
Instructional Consultant    La corne d'un Chamois, & la face vermeille
CSU, Sacramento          Comme un rouge Croissant: & dancent toute nuict
altheimm@csus.edu       Dedans un carrefour, ou pres d'une eau qui bruict."
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: boylan@sltg04.ljo.dec.com (Steve Boylan)
Subject: Re: pagans and wuakers
Reply-To: boylan@ljohub.enet.dec.com (Steve Boylan)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 15:04:19 GMT


In article <1jvt7sINN5ca@shelley.u.washington.edu>,
arthur@hardy.u.washington.edu (howard roark) writes:


> Hope this isn't a totally scerwed up question, but what does the paran
> commher ?
> 
> 
>                Arthur

Oh, no!  That B'joran virus has struck again!

				- - Steve


--
Don't miss the 49th New England Folk Festival,
April 23-25, 1993 in Natick, Massachusetts!
From: SL500000@brownvm.brown.edu ()
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: GOD
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 11:49:21 EST
Organization: Brown University - Providence, Rhode Island  USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: brownvm.brown.edu
X-News-Software: BNN via BNN_POST v1.0 beta

In article <728022574.0@iphase.fidonet.org>, Richard.Willis@iphase.fidonet.org
(Richard Willis) said:

>               There is a true god. Satan is real. Follow him and you will go
>to hell. Follow Jesus and inherite eternal life. Any questions?

It is very hard to be certain that this is in fact true, since some of
the recorded prophesies of Jesus did *not* come true, and some of his
recorded statements are in logical contradiction with one another, and
thus *cannot* all be true at once.  The plain sense of Mark 13:30 is
that the end of the world will happen before the last person alive in
Jesus' day has died -- but it was not so.  There is an irreconcilable
logical contradiction between plain sense of the saying of Jesus
recorded in Matthew 12:30 = Luke 11:23 (He that is not with me is
against me) and Mark 9:40 (For he that is not against us is on our
part).  Any questions?  -- Robert

Robert Mathiesen, Brown University, SL500000@BROWNVM
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: sylvan@trigger.ksu.ksu.edu (Thad A Williams)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Free Book
Date: 28 Jan 1993 13:27:55 -0600
Organization: Kansas State University
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: trigger.ksu.ksu.edu


In article <1993Jan27.190113.3603@news.cs.brandeis.edu>, kenyon@binah.cc.brandeis.edu writes:
>Along the lines of some previous postings, listing the names and addresses
>of certain religeous orders, I noticed an ad on TV for a free copy of the
>Book of Mormon. The number to call is 1-800-922-4200 ( or it may be -4280 ),
>and they will give you a copy.  Anyone who is doing any comparative religion
>studies might find this useful.

Be warned, they will probably show up at your house if you call and give
them an address to send the book to. (Like they don't show up periodically
anyway) :) 

					Bright Blessings,

						Drey
-- 
~               Silverfoot come silenty...                 ~
~        Thad Williams- Kansas State University            ~  
~                sylvan@matt.ksu.ksu.edu                   ~
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: camzen5@caa.mrs.umn.edu
Subject: Re: Looking for info on a.p
Organization: University of Minnesota, Morris
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 01:51:52 GMT

In article <1993Jan27.151625.4597@wvnvms.wvnet.edu> dtg@wvnvms.wvnet.edu writes:

>Note:  I am posting this for a friend who has listed his address at the end of
>his post, so if you'd like to contact him, please send your replies to his
>address.

>Thank you,
>the management.
>---------------------
>Hello, I have just recently moved into the northern West Virginia area, and am
>interested in meeting/getting to know any pagans in the area (or anyone 
>interested in paganism), for purposes of enlightenment and friendship.  I am
>not (yet) a practicing pagan, though I have read _Wicca: A Guide for the 
>Solitary Practicioner_ by Scott Cunningham, and wish to know more, if you'd
>like to tell me.

>If this is of interest, please email me at dorseyev@csgrad.cs.vt.edu.

>Thanx,

>-Ed

Hello, I like Ed's friend, have just moved into a new area, i.e. 
Minneapolis, and am looking for someone to help me better understand Wicca. 
I am a recovering Lutheran and have become very interested in Paganism.  If 
anyone out there knows anyone in the Minneapolis and St. Paul areas who is 
involved in Wicca or knows some place where I can get some real information, 
please respond.
		Thanks, Cilicia
From: uni@acs.bu.edu (Shaen Bernhardt)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Five sides...
Date: 24 Jan 93 00:16:31 GMT
Organization: Boston University, Boston, MA, USA


With regard to the five points of a five pointed star...

When one considers the five points to represent the 4 "elements" and 
"Spirit"  (i.e. earth water air fire spirit..)  Which points represent
which elements?

Is there a distinction in the penticle?  What other representations are
attributed to the star?

I would assume the top point to represent spirit.. but... ?

Thanks in advance...
blessed be.
-- 
uni@acs.bu.edu  ->  Public Keys by finger and/or request
Soverignty is the sign of a brutal past.
From: mimir@hardy.u.washington.edu (Al Billings)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: "Winds' Four Quarters"
Date: 26 Jan 1993 08:03:05 GMT
Organization: The Friends of Loki Society
NNTP-Posting-Host: hardy.u.washington.edu

In article <PIERSON.93Jan25170502@kukri.mps.mlo.dec.com> pierson@kukri.mps.mlo.dec.com (dan pierson) writes:
>Well, I like the song and suspect that the chorus would work pretty
>well in an invocation, but...
>
>  - It would be an invocation of the Quadruple Goddess that Misty
>    invented for her fantasy world, not the Triple Goddess many people
>    worship today.  Of course that could be a prefectly legitimate
>    goddess form to worship in this world too, there just wouldn't be
>    as much behind it.  

 There are a number of Dianic (Womyn's Religion) groups that worship a
fourth face of the Goddess, that of the Warrior. I think I even have a
file on it that I could post. So, if you were basing stuff from those
groups or involved, then it would have a bit behind it. There are quite a
few Dianic groups.
From: ailsa@wonky.UUCP (Ailsa N.T. Murphy)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: article in Boston magazine
Date: 22 Jan 93 02:08:08 GMT

In article <C164GB.8J4@encore.com>, aaldrich@encore.com (Al Aldrich) writes:
>
> I just came across an old copy of Boston magazine from May 1992, which had
> a great article about paganism in general and specifically in the Boston
> area. It contains several good interviews and quotes from Boston area
> pagans. It was very unbisased and actually, extremely pagan positive from
> my perspective. I recommend seeking it and and having a look see if you
> can. Also, might be useful for Boston area pagans seeking connections..
>
well, you COULD just post the possible contacts yourself...  please?
PRETTY please?  B)
                                                -ailsa
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: mortoj@marcus.its.rpi.edu (Jeffrey Robert Morton)
Subject: Re: Green pentagonal pentacles? (was Re: wearing pagan/pentacle jewelry)
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 00:42:05 GMT

In article <2B5EF4E5.22338@news.service.uci.edu> cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:

>I am being misquoted here, for some bizarre reason.  I said 2^5 -- two
>to the fifth, or thirty-two, the max number you can encode usinbg 5
>bits.

It appears that you do not understand how ogam is written.  Allow me to explain.

Originally used for inscriptions on pillar stones or wands, it will be easier
for me to explain it as if it were tilted 90 degrees.
The letters, when written on paper, are written as straight or angled lines
going over a central line (much as we stay between two lines, they stayed on
one line) 
First the vowels.  These are written as lines that extend each way, though they
were originally written as dots.  i.e.
       a     o      u       e         i
       I     II     III     IIII      IIIII
 -----------------------------------------------
       I     II     III     IIII      IIIII

There is then a set of five consonants (starting with b), with the same type 
of progression;
       b

 -------------
       I

Then another set of consonants (starting with H)
       h
       I
 --------------


There is then a set of five consonants with a progression of diagonal lines;
       m   g    ng    st     R  
        /   //   ///   ////   /////
 ------------------------------------------
     /   //   ///   ////   /////

Finally, there is a set of very odd letters, some of which I cannot produce
with ascii. (but I'll try)
(I have to double the size of some of these letters for them to be made properly
       p       oi       ui         io          ae
     \    /   /\                 \\    //     
      \  /   /  \                 \\  //
----------------------------------------------------------
      /  \   \  /       /         //  \\      -|-|-|-|-
     /    \   \/       (_)       //    \\     -|-|-|-|-
                                              -|-|-|-|-
                                              -|-|-|-|-

Well, some of these are not the best representations, but they'll do.  You may
notice some discrepancy between the letters as written here and as you know 
them (if you know ogam).  Books are not always accurate, and I have only looked
at several. 

Jeff

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
     "For every darkness there is a light, for every dusk, a dawn."
                                                     --uncertain
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: mimir@hardy.u.washington.edu (Al Billings)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Shamanism
Date: 21 Jan 1993 08:13:36 GMT
Organization: The Friends of Loki Society
NNTP-Posting-Host: hardy.u.washington.edu

In article <1993Jan21.033316.18889@wam.umd.edu> bast@wam.umd.edu (Jaguar) writes:
>
>For books on shamanic practices, I would suggest :
>Michael Harner, The way of the shaman

 Psychological Pseudo-Shamanism.

>John Matthews, the celtic chaman (OOPS>> shaman... the cleltic shaman.)

 New Age Wannabe crap. There is very little pointing to the Celts having
shamans, just shamanic techniques (which are two DIFFERENT things).
Matthews work is full of BIG holes. For example, the names he attributes
to the "totems" in his book are wrong for all but (I believe, I can check
if people care) except for two. The man can't even get NAMES right, let
alone ideas and history.

 This is fine if you are into crystals and let's-pretend, but it isn't
shamanism.

Wassail,
Grendel Grettisson

Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: txdv1@isuvax.iastate.edu (Angela KAY Rolling)
Subject: Shha   hamanism
Reply-To: txdv1@isuvax.iastate.edu
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 20:50:41 GMT

there is a lot of new age crap around. Can't comment ofn   on Matther  ews
book, but I like Michael Harner.
  I one\c  ce attended a shamanism-in-art lecrture at Iowa State U
in which the lecturer said ths  at shamanism is a worldwide phenom
enon, including in Europe and the British Isles. Pweeople here know
about Eastern mysticism ansd Native American, Australian and African
shamanism, but don't realize that British and European tribes parac
ticed exactly the same spirituality. Grendel sounds like a prime
example of that one.
 Of course Celts had religious leaders that could be described as
shamans. They went through the same otherworld initiation of dismem
berment and reconstruction tht is described in other cultures. 
If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck...
  ps I am into crystals which are also surrounded by new age bs,
but several of my subjects can cou\     vouch that it is not all 'lets
pretend'.  Mooncat
From: liam%alehaus@brewich.hou.tx.us (liam)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: []
Keywords: herbs
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 93 12:26:01 CST
Organization: The Alehaus, a Brewer's Witch affiliate, alehaus@brewich.hou.tx.us

dlg1@quads.uchicago.edu (deborah lynn gillaspie) writes:
>   

thanks for the info.
btw, I have found a place here, thisa week I was checking out a nursery 
that opened in my neiborhood and the owner said that he was trying to get 
some angellica to grow from seed so that he could add it to his 
inventory. :)

                        Blessed Be,
                                 Liam

------------------
liam%alehaus@brewich.hou.tx.us
Origin: The Alehaus -- Houston, TX -- 
     If you don't vote....DON'T BITCH
                                -unknown
From: tonya@csa2.lbl.gov (TONYA PUONCEY)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Pat Robertson
Date: 25 Jan 1993 12:51 PST
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory - Berkeley, CA, USA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.254.197
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    



Re: Pat Robertson.


I am so sick of this bastard.  He (1/20/93, 1.55 am) said that he
is against the (paraphrase) "Ahem. Moral scourge of premarital sex"
but It is a fact that he was passed over for Republican 
presidential nomination in 1988 because he married his girlfriend
out of wedlock (way out of wedlock, like 7 months!)


hock ptui!!!


later
-tom conlon
TEMP ADDRESS:  TONYA@CSA2.LBL.GOV

93

Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: deane@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Subject: Re: THE DIVINE MASTERS
Reply-To: deane@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Organization: Brandeis University
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 06:42:15 GMT

Somebody should explain to this Eckankar person why pagans might not
be too keen on a religion which sees the material world as a prison
to be escaped from.---David