HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: q1hl@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca (Nameless CS Student)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: gear-down check
Keywords: gear-down, FAA
Date: 30 Sep 92 23:51:22 GMT
Organization: University of New Brunswick

In article <72902@apple.Apple.COM> stadler@Apple.COM (Andy Stadler) writes:
>I don't think having tower say "check gear down" is a shift of responsibility.
>It's just a backup!  Of course the pilot is still responsible.  But why get
>rid of a perfectly good backup?

How do we decide what backups are neccessary?  Should controllers be
asking pilots to confirm their fuel-on-board?  Both mags?  DG set?
(Actually, I do mention the DG when giving a DF homing...)  What
about amphibs landing on water- should we warn them to check gear UP?
At what point should ATC get out of the cocpit and let the pilot fly?

If ATC is *required* to issue this warning, then how is ATC to avoid
legal liability if a pilot says that he missed his gear check because
ATC forgot to remind him?  Simply put- if it is a requirement, then
a possible lawsuit for ATC negligence exists in every gear-up landing.
From: hgp@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (howard.page)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Crash + NEFI + MVY (more crash info + dead Bananna story, really)
Date: 29 Sep 92 13:39:48 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Sep23.183738.1738@eco.twg.com>, reece@eco.twg.com (Reece R. Pollack) writes:
> The story I've heard is that a Cessna 182 with three aboard clipped the
> trees and crashed while attempting the ILS 24 into MVY late friday night.
> Conditions were reported to be 200 ft and 1/2 miles.

I got "the rest of the story" from a Nantucket Airlines pilot - the
pilot of the 182 "had to be there" for a wedding that day. Ouch!

Now the dead Bananna story: After the NEFI, two of us set off for
Nantucket. On short final, the engine in my brand spanking new 1958
Bonanza started running rough. Hmmmmmmm. That's wierd. I landed without
as problem.

The next day, I decided to take the airplane around the patch (still on
Nantucket) and try to figure out what was wrong. Well, it failed its
runup, so it was time to find a mechanic. "Just for fun" I decided to
open the cowl and eyeball the situation -- low-and-behold one of the
fuel injector lines had broken off approximately 1 cm above the
injector. Ouch!  The mechanic, when he finally showed up (Sunday
evening at 8pm!) said, "Boy, in 20 years, this is only the second
failure like this I've seen.  The first one burned up!!!" Ouch! Ouch!

Well, to make a long story short, the fuel line is a Continentral part
and can't be fabricated. Someone from my aero club came up and rescued
my passengers. I waited on the Island for a day for the part, then
decided to fly to Hyannis (hence the conversation with the Nantucked
Airlines C-402 driver), then take the bus home. The part arrived on
Tuesday, on Wednesday a friend (thanks Glenn!) flew me back to ACK to
retrieve the airplane.

Oh yeah, the best part: the bus ride home, from Hyannis to the Port
Authority, the name of the bus company was:

	Bonanza Bus Lines

Arrrgh!

Howard

Howard G. Page   AT&T Bell Laboratories   hgp@neural.att.com   +1 908 949-7077
From: km11480@medtronic.COM (Keith A. Meisel)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Airliner tyre life ?
Date: 5 Oct 92 18:21:26 GMT
Reply-To: km11480@medtronic.COM
Organization: Medtronic, Inc.

The information I have via our local air carrier, Northwest Airlines, is that
a 747 is allowed 24 landings before the tires are _recapped_.  I'm not
sure how many recaps are done on a given set of tires.
Xref: sparky rec.aviation:16372 rec.aviation.student:23
From: ses3n@fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU (Sharon Elizabeth Silverman)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation,rec.aviation.student
Subject: Re: Solo Rites
Date: 4 Oct 92 01:07:37 GMT
Organization: University of Virginia


My shirt was not cut when I soloed. This may be because I'm 
female :-). But I kind of missed the ritual excitement. I would
think more people would soap "Just Soloed" a la "just married" on 
cars... :-)				Sharon
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: hutton@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (ed Hutton ext. 6488)
Subject: Re: Airplanes with horns 
Organization: NCR E&M Columbia SC.
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 17:22:48 GMT

In article <1992Sep29.153624.10993@nmsu.edu> bboswell@dante.NMSU.Edu (BOSWELL) writes:
>reduced throttle setting!!!!
>Also, our flight club's 1960 Cessna 172A has been accused of having "horns",  
>but the "horns" are the plane's bernoulli-effect vacuum system (the plane has  
>no vacuum pump, and I wonder if it isn't more reliable than the vacuum systems  
>used now [although it's kind of wierd for the attitude indicator not to spin up  
>until you get moving down the runway!]). 

	This reminds me... Why are the venturies (sp?) mounted on the outside of
older aircraft? As opposed to say on the exhaust manifold with either exhaust gas
or a blast air tube from the outside directed through it. Seems like this way you
wouldn't have to worry about icing. Any reason not to use the "horn" as a back-up
to the vacuum pump? Seems a lot cheaper and simpler than an electric back-up pump.

Ed
-- 
edward.hutton@ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Ed Hutton)    
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: lin@juneau.inel.gov (L Linn Hower)
Subject: Re: Jeppesen RNAV En Route Charts
Organization: Idaho National Engineering Laboratory, Idaho Falls, Idaho
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 92 00:35:29 GMT

In article <2998@contex.contex.com>, brian@porky.contex.com (Brian Love) writes:
>                                                           The RNAV approach
> plate looked like I'd expected, but I admit to some confusion regarding the
> RNAV enroute charts.  In what way are they useful?

  These charts are great.  Lay a straight edge across the chart from
the departure to the destination.  At the enroute VOR's you pass
by, the 0, 90, 180, and 270 radials are plotted.  The radials are
marked at (I think, don't have a chart handy) 10 mile ticks.
So just with a quick look you have all your enroute waypoints... use
your eyeball to interpolate to the nearest mile on the radial you cross.
So: VOR, radial, miles.  Program that RNAV and light the fires...

  A corporate pilot taught me that about 10 years ago it seems... only
I don't have RNAV!
  Linn Hower	lin@INEL.GOV		Phone: 208-526-9231
		at the Idaho National Engineering Laboratory, Idaho Falls, ID

========== long legal disclaimer follows, press n to skip ===========

Neither the United States Government or the Idaho National Engineering
Laboratory or any of their employees, makes any warranty, whatsoever,
implied, or assumes any legal liability or responsibility regarding any
information, disclosed, or represents that its use would not infringe
privately owned rights.  No specific reference constitutes or implies
endorsement, recommendation, or favoring by the United States
Government or the Idaho National Engineering Laboratory.  The views and
opinions expressed herein do not necessarily reflect those of the
United States Government or the Idaho National Engineering Laboratory,
and shall not be used for advertising or product endorsement purposes.
From: enns@waterloo.hp.com (Roger Enns)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Fiberglass Gear Legs (Was Re: Canard Compromises)
Date: 30 Sep 92 12:28:58 GMT
Organization: HP Panacom Div Waterloo ON Canada
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

The Mark II version of the Dragonfly uses fiberglass gear legs,
with 5" wheels and brakes.  I have heard of no problem with
these.  Touchdown speed is about 60-65mph, and because of the
taildragger canard layout, little braking can be performed until
the tail comes down (~40mph, depending on loading).  The airplane
takes very little time to slow down from 40mph to a safe taxi
speed, so I suspect that the duration of heavy braking is not
long enough to cause any problems.

--
Roger Enns (enns@waterloo.hp.com) Panacom Automation Division, HP
C-GIIV Dragonfly, 1979 RX7 13B, 1985 Colt
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: stankus@d31mf2.Stanford.EDU (John J. Stankus)
Subject: Confederate Air Show dates????
Originator: stankus@leland.Stanford.EDU
Organization: Department of Chemistry, Stanford University
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 23:25:21 GMT


Does anyone know the dates for the Confederate Air Force show in Houston?



John J. Stankus				Chemistry Department
stankus@leland.stanford.edu		Stanford University
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: geoff@peck.com (Geoff Peck)
Subject: Re: Flying/Camping the Sierras: Grass Valley / Tahoe
Organization: Geoffrey G. Peck, Consultant, San Jose CA
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 06:24:41 GMT

In article <18rotjINN84k@sol.usc.edu> barney@sol.usc.edu (Barney Lum) writes:
> Thinking back to all the discussions about density altitude,  I don't
> recall any wisdom on the use of flaps and ideal airspeed.  Any general
> (or particular to cessna/piper) advice out there in that respect?

In general, for high density altitude takeoffs with adequate runway, I
suggest no flaps and a speed relatively close to sea level Vx (not sea
level Vy).  Vx and Vy converge at the aircraft's absolute ceiling, with
relatively little change in Vx.  If downdrafts are a significant factor, a
higher airspeed may be required to get yourself out of the sink -- even if
it means a temporary loss in altitude.

I would also suggest that, runway permitting, it would be wise to remain
in ground effect and pick up some extra speed before climbing away from
the runway.  Ten or fifteen knots above Vx is what I'd suggest.  Flying in
ground effect is slightly less draggy than flying out of ground effect,
and that extra speed can readily be translated to altitude once you lift
away from the runway (or it can be kept as speed, should that be the
critical element).

						Geoff
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: jhenderson@pomona.claremont.edu
Subject: Re: The things controllers know...
Organization: Pomona College
Date: 27 Sep 92 23:55:55 PDT

>>DATE:   Thu, 24 Sep 1992 05:20:25 GMT
>>FROM:   Geoff Peck <geoff@peck.com>
> ...Amusing transponder story deleted...
> 
>>still not see us?  Apparently not.  The controller said "that's funny -- we
>>could see you on the way up to dinner, but we aren't getting a readout
>>now."  (Duh.  I guess these controllers really _do_ know what we do with
>>light aircraft.  :-) )

Indeed. Why, just on the last LCFI to SBA, when I contacted ground and
requested progressive taxiing to the FBO at the end of the field near where
the Elephant bar is, the dialog went more or less like this:

Me: Cherokee 82864 requests progressive taxiing to [fbo name I forgot]

Gnd: taxi across rwy 25, proceed to the first taxiway, make a right and
     go all the way to the end, the Elephant bar is right there.

Me: How did you know I was going there?

Gnd: wild guess
______________________________________________________________________________
Javier Henderson, N6VBG         | Beat the 55mph limit (legally):
jhenderson@pomona.claremont.edu | Learn to fly!
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: yiannis@ccad.uiowa.edu (Yiannis Papelis)
Subject: Re: Unfamiliar phraseologies
Organization: CAD-Research, University of Iowa, Iowa City
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 03:37:12 GMT

In some article ken@systech.com (Ken Brown) writes:
>It is obvious that controllers are very precise in the words that
>they use and the order in which they are spoken.
>"correction" when they have misspoken, "affirmative" and "negative"
>when they mean 'yup' and 'nope'.  I have, however, heard controllers
>step out of their ATC persona when dealing with a wayward student
>pilot, or a pilot who doesn't know how to 'squawk ident'.

When I was a student pilot, I used to not call up as 'student pilot'
when talking to ATC since I've never had any serious problems. 
One day though, I decided to go ahead and say 'student pilot'
in my initial callup.  I monitored the frequency for some time and
it was fairly busy but I managed to correctly visualize the
traffic and determine that a commuter was about 5 miles behind me 
inbound to the same airport but about 2000 feet higher.  
I looked for it, found it and it was on higher on my left, safely away.  
I then make my initial call (really proud of myself at that point):

ME: 'warrior XXXXX over small_city, at 3500, with zulu, inbound for 
landing, student pilot'

ATC: (at a very slow, clear voice with a 'fatherly' tone): OK warrior XXX,
now listen carefully, there is a big airplane with two engines
over your left shoulder, do you see it?

ME: (thinking what the heck????): traffic in sight, warrior XXX

ATC: good, just follow this plane and let me know when you can 
see the airport.

Now the incident sounds really funny, but at the time I didn't
know what to think and I was afraid I sounded really helpess.  
Needless to say that was the last time I called up as a
student pilot...



-- 
Yiannis E. Papelis,            - Electrical & Computer Engineering, U of Iowa
Center of Computer Aided Design- Home of the Iowa Driving Simulator & future
e-mail: yiannis@ccad.uiowa.edu - home of the National Advanced Driving Simulator
From: ngupta@mtl.mit.edu (Nitin Gupta)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Airliner tyre life ?
Date: 30 Sep 92 23:16:17 GMT
Article-I.D.: athena.1992Sep30.231617.19179
Organization: Massachvsetts Institvte of Technology

In article <1992Sep30.143138.17799@syma.sussex.ac.uk>  
markf@syma.sussex.ac.uk (Mark Foster) writes:
> 
> Does anyone have any information as to how long a set of tyres on an
> aircraft such as a 747 or an A320 would last.
> 
> How many landings can they withstand before they are replaced. ???
> 
> Please E-Mail direct rather than post since this is really only to
> settle a disagreement here.

Please e-mail to me also or post. This is a very interesting question.

Thanks!
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Nitin Gupta                       MIT Submicron Structures Laboratory
ngupta@mtl.mit.edu       NeXT Mail Encouraged            617 253 0721
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: "Eldo Hildebrand, UNB,Fredericton,NB" <ELDO@UNB.CA>
Subject: Homebuilt aircraft mailing list?
Organization: The University of New Brunswick
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 12:12:28 GMT

I just noticed the posting for an ultralight mailing list and almost
posted a request for a subscription until it occurred to me that
Ultralight is the "OLD" term for the homebuilt catagory up here in
the frozen north.  Is there a similar list for the EAA or homebuilt
aircraft types?

Eldo Hildebrand (ELDO@UNB.CA)
University of New Brunswick
P.O. Box 4400
Fredericton,N.B. E3B 5A3
Tel. 506 453 4521
Fax  506 453 3568
From: dfr@usna.navy.mil (PROF D. Rogers (EAS FAC))
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: GTE CONTEL DUAT new features
Date: 6 Oct 92 22:00:11 GMT
Organization: U. S. Naval Academy

In article <5314@rosie.NeXT.COM> amm@NeXT.COM (Alan M. Marcum) writes:
!John Stephens writes
!! I am not a regular user of the CONTEL Duat -- I am much more
!! familiar with ... DTC ...
!
!Why do I use Contel?  Because I can telnet to duat.Contel.COM
![131.131.7.105].  Period.

Since we seem to be `voting' on which DUAT service we like best
I'll add my vote. 

Currently I prefer DTC mainly because I like their user interface
somewhat better than Contel. DTC also seems to be a bit faster.
Finally I have learned a trick with DTC that allows a very fast
download -- set cols = 24 rows = 999. (You might be able to
do the same thing with Contel)

I use Contel from the office over the Internet but it runs at
about 1/4 to 1/3 speed in comparison to on the PC with a
2400 baud modem. Have not succeeded in getting the Telebit to
work with either DTC or Contel using Procomm.

Dave Rogers
From: hgp@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (howard.page)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: New Old Radios (purchasing a plane with Trade-A-Plane, really)
Date: 6 Oct 92 12:59:00 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Oct5.185728.21133@porthos.cc.bellcore.com>, patter@dasher.uucp (24224-guthrie) writes:
> In article <70024@hydra.gatech.EDU> glenns@eas.gatech.edu writes:
> 
> >Sounds like a job for <trumpet fanfare> _Trade-A-Plane_!
> 
> Trade-a-plane's address is
> 
> Trade-a-Plane
> P.O. Box 509
> 410 West 4th St.
> Crossville, Tn 38557
> 
> Phone is 615-484-5237
> 
> If you're just shopping for gear, buy a copy at your FBO (as Glenn
> suggests). If you're looking for a plane, get a 6 month subscription
> and pay for the UPS delivery or first class mail.
> 

If you're *seriously* looking for a plane, subscribe to
Trade-A-Plane overnight delivery...
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: hutton@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (ed Hutton ext. 6488)
Subject: Re: Unfamiliar phraseologies
Organization: NCR E&M Columbia SC.
Date: Fri, 02 Oct 92 14:50:34 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.033712.30546@ccad.uiowa.edu> yiannis@ccad.uiowa.edu (Yiannis Papelis) writes:
[over helpfule controller tale deleted]
>Needless to say that was the last time I called up as a
>student pilot...

	I had the same experience. The first and only time I used the
phrase "student pilot" was on my first solo trip out to the practice
area. The controller began speaking Veeeeeeery slowly. He called out
traffic in a ten mile circle about me. He provided vectors away from
any aircraft that came with in three miles whether I saw it or not.
He also called out every radio antenna even though I was well above
the grid height on the sectional.  He provided vectors all 
the way back to the airport (an uncontrolled airport not the same
facility where he worked). I felt as if the guy had crawled through
the speaker and was sitting in the right seat! Last time I used that
phrase! This guy was unreal -- last thing he did before having me squawk
1200 was give me the Unicom frequency and point out the traffic in the
pattern!

Ed

-- 
edward.hutton@ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Ed Hutton)
From: jle@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Jer/ Eberhard)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Personal picks (was Re: What do you do during long boring flights?)
Date: 25 Sep 92 21:26:41 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA

> >For me... it is the Beach Starship!

> Too much time in the sun,eh? I will have to agree, the BEECH Starship AND the
> Piagio(sp?) Avanti are the best looking twins ever built. But we were talking
> about light twins, and these don't qualify.  

You are right on all counts!  The Beech Starchip and Avanti.
I confess to:  too much time low and slow in the Idaho Backcountry.
What a wonderful place to lose your troubles (and your mind), trading
it for peace, tranquility and all the brain dead environmentalists
who closed up the %$#@ wilderness, so we can't even get a blade into
the backcountry airstrips to smooth them up after a rain!

Jer/ Eberhard, (SLASH), HAM = N0FZD     | Hewlett-Packard - MS99, 1UP10,15'East
Pilot: COMM, INST, CFI-Airplane & Glider| 3404 East Harmony Road (303) 229-2861
CAP CFI, Check & Mission, Pikes Peak 218| Fort Collins, Colorado  80525-9599 
EMAIL:  jle@fc.hp.com or Jer_Eberhard@fc.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: robie@umbc4.umbc.edu (Mr. William Robie; POSI (GRAD))
Subject: Re: Stay off the rudder!
Organization: Univ. of MD, Baltimore County
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 16:23:33 GMT

In article <1@auspex-gw.auspex.com> tpickett@auspex.com (Tom Pickett) writes:
>In article <92266.215322VPN1@psuvm.psu.edu>, VPN1@psuvm.psu.edu writes:
>> If you get into strong turbulence,
>> IFR, stay off the rudder and you won't get into a spin.
>
>Having gotten my license in a Taylorcraft, I learned quite the
>opposite rule -- stay on the rudders or spin.

Tom has a point.  In the Champ, for example, the old practice to follow
if you got caught in the clouds was to: a) reduce rpms to 1500; b) trim
the elevator full "up" (at the low power setting, this would give you a
modest rate of descent); c) LET GO of the stick (it'll take care of itself);
d) hold a steady course on the compass using rudders only; e) pray that
you will come out of the bottom of the soup at a higher altitude than the
terrain below you.

Of course, when this practice was common, so was spin recovery training.
Some even suggested that the safest way to descend through clouds was to
induce a spin, then recover as you broke out.  I never followed the
wisdom of this unless, of course you happened to be over the only crack
in the cloud cover and you could see that it was safe to descend at that
one particular spot.

The *best* method is to stay the heck out of clouds *and* t-storms!
From: lhe@sics.se (Lars-Henrik Eriksson)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Any comments about the El Al crash?
Date: 6 Oct 92 07:29:22 GMT
Organization: Swedish Institute of Computer Science, Kista

In article <138147@lll-winken.LLNL.GOV> ed@wente.llnl.gov (Ed Suranyi) writes:
   An El Al 747 freighter was four on board (crew of three plus one 
   passenger) took off from Amsterdam's Schiphol airport en route to
   Tel Aviv on a regularly scheduled route.  Ten minutes after takeoff
   the pilot reported that engines three and four were both on fire, and
   he was declaring an emergency. ...

When something like this happens the media starts writing lots of
funny stuff about aviation. In Swedish newspapers I read yesterday
that the 747 is unusual in that it is "stable", meaning that it can
land with all engines failed. Today I read that the 747 engine mounts
are designed so that the engines actually fall off the aircraft if
they have been damaged enough.

This latter statement seems totally incredible. I would have dismissed
it straight away if it wasn't for alleged quotes by Boing people
supporting it.

Does anyone know if this really IS true?!?

--
Lars-Henrik Eriksson                            Internet: lhe@sics.se
Swedish Institute of Computer Science           Phone (intn'l): +46 8 752 15 09
Box 1263                                        Telefon (nat'l): 08 - 752 15 09
S-164 28  KISTA, SWEDEN                         Fax: +46 8 751 72 30
From: cosper@seq.uncwil.edu (Kit Cosper)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: New Magazine
Keywords: tech stuff, motors
Date: 28 Sep 92 22:02:25 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Univ. of North Carolina @ Wilmington

tbruseha@hollywood.ems.cdc.com (Tom Brusehaver) writes:

>(John writes in Midnight Engineering and is a very good writer).

	He has also written a fair number of flames on rec.aviation
	about eco-nazis and twinkets, just a reminder for any of you
	who don't remember the name.....

>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Introducing 

>_Performance Engineering_ Magazine

>John De Armond, Publisher.

>PE is published by Rapid Deployment Systems, Inc.

_________________________________________________________________________


Kit


-- 
   Kit Cosper                        cosper@seq.uncwil.edu         
   PP-ASEL-IA                        AMA 31022
From: jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Look out, left coasters!
Date: 29 Sep 92 18:44:15 GMT
Article-I.D.: lib.7453
Distribution: usa
Organization: UT Health Science Center Houston


I'm going to Interop the last week of October, and would like to get together
with some of the net.aviators while I'm out there. This will be my first trip
to the SF Bay area, so I'm looking for suggestions for interesting things to
do and see, too. Maybe we can even organize a BOF?

Drop me email; I'll summarize if there's interest, especially in some kind of
a group thing.
-- 
Jay Maynard, EMT-P, K5ZC, PP-ASEL | Never ascribe to malice that which can
jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu      | adequately be explained by stupidity.
    Vote for a REAL change on 3 November: Throw out the check-bouncing,
  tax-and-spend Democrat Congress! (obviously, not an opinion of UTHSCH)