From: kuryakin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Rick Pavek)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Crop Circles?
Date: 18 Aug 92 21:14:54 GMT
Organization: Boeing

In article <1992Aug18.021302.18134@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> rogue@ccs.northeastern.edu (Free Radical) writes:
>
>Rick - what sort of proof would be acceptable to you?  It's a very difficult
>thing to prove.  The closest I could come would be to demonstrate how to make
>circles very similar to the ones in dispute (assuming I had such knowledge - 
>I don't, I'm just a casual observer).  Does that prove to you the other 
>circles were created by humans?
Let's see... what would work?  OK, here's what would prove it to me.
There are two types of circles, if you've followed it at all closely.
One is a type that is consistant with people walking around on a 2x6
board pressing the stalks down.

The second has different characteristics such as the stalks are bent,
not broken, and the cellular structure exhibits some kind of abberation.

The first is easy to duplicate.  They've done it on video.  The second
is harder.  While I don't know all the traits that make them different,
I would assume that a circle would have to be created with a method that
uses techniques that resolve all the anomalies in the two types, and
that this circle (that resolves all the differences) and it's creation
be recorded on video.  If I saw something like that, that took the effort
to address all the characteristics of both types of circles...  I'd
consider it proven to my satisfaction.  Perhaps we could develop that
test here on the net?

>What proof can be offered in _any_ regard as to the origin of an existing
>object?  No matter how convincingly I can imitate it, you can always say,
>'But you didn't prove that's how _this_ one was done'.  James Randi runs
>up against this all the time.

Randi is somewhat different here... he's deliberately set himself up
with a $10,000 bet that he pays the person who can perform some feat
that Randi can't prove was pres pros prestidigi prestidgi  slight of hand.

He deserves to have to prove or disprove these claims.

Me, since I don't have a lot of money riding on it, I'm easier to convince.
(After all, I wasn't originally convinced there was something unusual
happening with crop circles...  I don't just jump on ANY fad!)

But my assertation can't be disproved any more than the assertation that
men created all of the circles can be proven.

I am willing to conclude that men 'probably' made all the crop circles.
I will be more willing to admit that they 'did' make all the crop circles
when you can show me a man make celery bend at a right angle without
breaking or killing the celery.  And then do it in the midst of a field
of cereal in the shape of a mandelbrot.

If there's someone out there that's done it, then nows the time to tellit.
Can they be upstaged by a couple of old farts that used 2x4's and string
to not want to show off their technology (which is surely far more advanced
than a 2x4...)

If they can demonstrate the technology, they can apply for patents that will
pay them more than enough money to cover the damage to the crops...  ;-)

If 'they' did, I wish they would.

Rick

-- 
Rick Pavek                       | Never ask a droid to outdo its program.
kuryakin@bcstec.boeing.com       |           
AppleLink:  kuryakin             | It wastes your time           
r.pavek1@GENIE                   |          and annoys the droid.