From: stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com (Todd I. Stark)
Subject: Re: Aiki in Osotogari
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date:  9 OCT 92 09:28:33    


Great example.

geg@beep.mis.semi.harris.com (Gregory E. Garland) writes...
tac@cs.brown.edu (Ted A. Camus) writes:
>|> 
>|> nigel@ietech.demon.co.uk ("Nigel G. Backhurst") writes:
>|> >
>|> >An example of this can be seen with the technique Osotogeri, which is
>|> >a classical Judo, Ju Jitsu technique.  I have never come across this
>|> >in an Aikido environment but it is taught in Aiki Ju Jitsu, but with
>|> >a strong Aiki element in the technique.
>|> 
>|> 
>|>    Hmm . . I have serious trouble considering Osotogari an aiki* 
>|>    technique, because of the type of strength involved.  In Fred
>|>    Lovret's words, "external" muscular strength is accompanied by
>|>    a feeling of compression, whereas "internal" strength (kokyu 
>|>    chikara) has a feeling of expansion.  This is what I believe
>|>    is meant by "extending one's Ki" in Aikido.  However I can see
>|>    no way to "extend" in any meaningful way with an Osotogari.  
> 
>You off balance someone with osoto-gari by "extending" him out toward
>his rear corner, although its not uncommon to see people trying to
>a less effective method of dragging uke downward to his rear corner;
>either due to the overly defensive posture of the players or just
>bad habits. Even the reaping leg extends outward at first to help
>with the kuzushi, and then sweeps back in a with an easy, almost
>effortless motion rather than hooking the uke's leg and trying to
>pull it off the ground.

The basic principle behind Osoto-gari, as *I* understand it, is
nearly identical to that in one of the Kokyu-nage variations.

The biggest difference to me is just that the the Judo tradition
starts from a more locked position, that's where the strength comes
in ... in fitting into the unbalancing to the rear corner, and breaking 
Uke's posture.  In the Aiki... traditions, the waza usually starts from an 
*unlocked* position, so there a more opportunity to use 'extending' 
motion to unbalance in a manner more characteristic of
Aiki.  

And in either case, if unbalancing is completed effectively,
the reap is only one way of completing a throw.  It could also be done
without lifting either foot significantly from the ground (which is
closer to _most_ conservative Aiki philosophies.

If they had to start from a neutral, locked position, very few people
would have the skill to pull off the Aiki versions of O-Soto-Gari, (I think),
but from a single lapel grip/Kata-tori position it has subtleties
that make it very desireable, not having to contend with the opponent's
strength at all.
> 
>-- 
>Greg Garland - Alive, occupying space, and exerting gravitational force
> 
>MS 62-024, Harris Semiconductor Sector, PO Bx 883, 
>Melbourne  FL 32905.  geg@beep.mis.semi.harris.com
> 
>"Never let the facts interfere with your perception of reality."
> 
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