HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jax@well.sf.ca.us (Jack J. Woehr)
Subject: New Book: _Forth: the New Model_
Summary: New Title for Jax Book
Keywords: forth,embedded,control,systems,ans,dpans,x3j14,standard
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 05:39:33 GMT


	For all of you who are in the halibut of waiting with baited
breath for new Forth books, especially Forth books by jax, stay
tuned for:

_Forth: the New Model_ by Jack J. Woehr (Hi, Mom!) M&T Books 1992,
ISBN 1-55851-277-2.

	"Forth, the primary language for embedded systems, has
	spawned a perplexing array of Forth systems, syntaxes and
	implementation strategies. The work of the ANS/ASC X3/X3J14
	committee has been to develop and define a platform-independent
	specification so that programmers can write truly portable code.
	This book teaches Forth and the proposed new standard from the
	perspective of a Technical Committe member. You will find it
	especially helpful if you are:

		- An experienced Forh programmer who wishes to become
		familiar with the draft-proposed standard for Forth

		- A Forth programmer who needs know how to convert
		existing programs to the new proposed standard

		- A programmer, experienced in other languages, who
		is using Forth for an embedded control project

		- A beginning Forth programmer who wishes to learn
		the language"

	Note new title. Should be in your books stores in January.
Of course, this all won't mean anything 'till I see my picture on
the cover of the "Rolling Stone" :-)

			=jax=
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth,comp.realtime
From: jax@well.sf.ca.us (Jack J. Woehr)
Subject: Re: New Book: _Forth: the New Model_
Keywords: forth,embedded,control,systems,ans,dpans,x3j14,standard
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 02:10:59 GMT

In <BzCxLu.DHK@news.iastate.edu> bible@iastate.edu (Anthony E Bible) writes:

>In article <jax.724484373@well.sf.ca.us> jax@well.sf.ca.us (Jack J. Woehr) writes:

>>_Forth: the New Model_ by Jack J. Woehr (Hi, Mom!) M&T Books 1992,
>>ISBN 1-55851-277-2.

>	This not a flame (not even an ember) but a sincere question:  How can
>you already have a book coming out on ANS Forth (considering publishing 
>lead-times and the fact the standard is still in process) without it being as 
>out-of-date as the earlier Basis documents?  What is the likelihood there will 
>have to be extensive revisions for a second edition?

	First of all, my final draft for the publisher was October, 1992.

	The BASIS has been pretty stable since about dpANS-2, which was
voted in August, 1991. There were some changes at the October meeting
that affected the material covered in the book, but they are not earth
shaking. The two most important are as follows:

	1) TIB and #TIB were moved to Core Extensions and deprecated
in favor of the new Core word

		SOURCE ( --- c-addr u)

	which, as you can guess, returns the address and count of the
current input stream.

	My book talks about TIB and #TIB.

	2) SLITERAL ( c-addr u --)  C    STRING

	was added, which is interesting, but again not earthshaking.

>Actually that was two sincere questions.

	And the sincere answer to both is, buy up my book in its
current form and it will hasten the day when M&T orders up the
2nd, Expanded and Revised Edition!

	Thanx for asking, Tony!

			=jax=
-- 
 # jax@well.{UUCP,sf.ca.us}  # #  Member  # # Vice President,       #
 # du!isis!koscej!jax        # # X3J14 TC # #  Forth Interest Group #
 # JAX on GEnie              # # for ANS  # #   P.O. Box 2154       #
 # SYSOP RCFB (303) 278-0364 # #  Forth   # #    Oakland, CA 94621  #
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
From: jimlynch@netcom.com (Jim Lynch)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth.mac
Subject: Re: Survey
Date: 15 Dec 92 03:19:45 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

I am using pocket forth for doing my pre calculus/matrix homework, it's v6.1.

BTW, I used to implement forths... now, I'm highly interested in gnu cc for
its portability and general spirit...
From: sorry no email (Randolph Peters)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth.mac
Subject: Pocket Forth
Date: 14 Dec 92 18:28:04 GMT
Followup-To: comp.lang.forth.mac
Organization: Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania

I'm a pocket forth user. Pocket forth is great for learning the forth
ropes, as it were, and is not bad for automatic handling of the event loop.
Considering how stripped down it is, it is a remarkably full-featured forth
implementation and is fairly true to the Brodie text "Starting Forth." 

If there are any other pocket forth users out there, you may find this
little
bug fix useful (basically, it allows you to use interpret correctly by
resetting the input stream). See my posting on comp.lang.forth for more
discussion on this.

: 0>is   tib a>r 2r> ,$ 285E ; macro

: query   tib 80 32 fill     0>is    tib 80 expect    interpret ;




Randolph Peters
Suite C, 3rd floor Silverstein
Hosp of the Univ of PA
34th and Spruce Streets, Phila PA 19104
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth.mac
From: bible@iastate.edu (Anthony E Bible)
Subject: Re: RECURSION?!?
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 15:15:24 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.052611.3031@peanut> scrogginstom@bvc.edu (Thomas W. Scroggins) writes:
>I am just starting out using Forth and was wondering if MacForth allows
>recursion and if anyone has examples if it does.
>
>-- 

Tom:
	Yes it does.  Here is an example (factorial -- what else :):

: FACTORIAL  ( n1 -- n2)	\ return n1 factorial
   ?DUP IF  DUP 1-  MYSELF *  ELSE  1  THEN ;


	As you can probably tell, MYSELF invokes the word which is being
compiled, i.e., it recurses.


Regards,
tony
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth.mac
From: magik@chinet.chi.il.us (Ben Liberman)
Subject: Re: Yerk/Mops
Organization: Chinet - Public Access UNIX
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 12:47:27 GMT

In article <1992Dec11.152256.21788@midway.uchicago.edu> rfl@oddjob.uchicago.edu (Bob Loewenstein) writes:
>
>The manual for both Yerk and Mops are derived from the original Neon
>Manual (Large). 

Does that mean that it is useful to have a copy of the Neon manual as well?

If so, how/where can I get a copy?

-- 
	------------    ------    ----------------------
	Ben Liberman    USENET    magik@chinet.chi.il.us
	                          magik@tai.chi.il.us
From: magik@chinet.chi.il.us (Ben Liberman)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth.mac
Subject: Re: Yerk/Mops
Date: 15 Dec 92 09:12:11 GMT
Organization: Chinet - Public Access UNIX

In article <1992Dec14.152024.17997@midway.uchicago.edu> rfl@oddjob.uchicago.edu (Bob Loewenstein) writes:
>
>>>The manual for both Yerk and Mops are derived from the original Neon
>>>Manual (Large). 
>>
>>Does that mean that it is useful to have a copy of the Neon manual as well?
>
>Not really. Large portions of both manuals are really the Neon manual.
>There are changes to represent how Yerk and Mops are different from
>the original Neon.

Thanks, I was begining to worry that  was missing useful or critical
information.  Is there a MOPS manual?  My "poor at best" memory seems
to be saying to me that I'm still waiting for it to be completed :-)
(or was that the tutorial ?)


-- 
	------------    ------    ----------------------
	Ben Liberman    USENET    magik@chinet.chi.il.us
	                          magik@tai.chi.il.us
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth.mac
From: bible@iastate.edu (Anthony E Bible)
Subject: Survey
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 14:06:11 GMT

	Just to try to keep a little traffic going in this long dormant group:

What version of FORTH are you using on the Mac?


I have MacForth.


Regards,
tony
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth.mac
From: brad@titan.austin.ibm.com (Brad Garton)
Subject: Yerk/Mops Manuals
Reply-To: brad@titan.austin.ibm.com  (Brad Garton)
Organization: IBM Advanced Workstation Division
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 22:51:58 GMT

Would it be possible for someone to send me a copy of the Yerk 
Manuals and/or Mops manuals as a postscript file? I would
greatly appreciate it. 

I really  like Yerk on my Plus. Don't know about Mops yet 
though. 


Brad 

___________________________________________________________
| Brad Garton  (512) 838-1333 | brad@titan.austin.ibm.com |
| I speak for myself not IBM  | VNET: GARTON AT AUSTIN    |
+---------------------------------------------------------+
From: scrogginstom@bvc.edu (Thomas W. Scroggins)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth.mac
Subject: RECURSION?!?
Date: 16 Dec 92 05:26:10 CST
Organization: Buena Vista College, Storm Lake, Ia

I am just starting out using Forth and was wondering if MacForth allows
recursion and if anyone has examples if it does.

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  ____________  ______   ___  ___       |Tom Scroggins - SCROGGINSTOM@BVC.EDU|
| /____   ____/ /     /  /   /    /      | Buena Vista College Storm Lake, Ia |
|     /  /     /  /  /  /  /  /  /       |------------------------------------|
|    /  /     /  /  /  /  /__/  /        |                                    |
|   /__/     /_____/  /__/  /__/         |            this space is	      |
|--------------//------------------------| reserved for future implementation |
| A bug is just an undocumented feature! |                                    |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: sorry no email address (Randolph Peters)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth.mac
Subject: multiple windows in pocket forth
Date: 17 Dec 92 16:22:24 GMT
Followup-To: comp.lang.forth.mac
Organization: Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania

Thanks for the recent posting of PICK for pocket forth. Have you
been able to successfully implement multiple windows in Pocket Forth?
It's easy so long as you want all your windows to do the same thing,
but if you want to have different functions/programs for each window,
it seems impossible. 
In MacFORTH, you assign a program to a window by including it in the
activate handler for that window; when the window is activated, the 
handler is invoked. Whenever I try this in Pocket Forth, I get system
crashes. 
Any hints would be greatly appreciated.

          
Thanks in advance,
Randolph Peters
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth.mac
From: Bob Loewenstein <rfl@oddjob.uchicago.edu>
Subject: Re: Yerk/Mops
X-Xxmessage-Id: <A754E53722022814@bob.yerkes.uchicago.edu>
X-Xxdate: Wed, 16 Dec 92 19:52:55 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Astronomy and Astrophysics
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d12
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 19:57:46 GMT

Re: Yerk/Mops

The Mops Manual and the Yerk Manual are available with anonymous
ftp at oddjob.uchicago.edu, in directory pub/Yerk.

The Mops manual is not completed yet, but the first two sections
are done. The manuals are very similar since they are derived from
the Neon Manual, but the actually discussions relate to either Yerk
or Mops.
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth.mac
From: ingles@engin.umich.edu (Ray Ingles)
Subject: Re: Survey
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 14:55:31 EST
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor

In article <BzEsnn.B7J@news.iastate.edu> bible@iastate.edu (Anthony E Bible) writes:
>In article <1992Dec15.152241.549@hhcs.gov.au> anderpe@hhcs.gov.au writes:
>==============================================================================
>
>	The only other two Forth's for the Mac I am aware of are:
>
>pocketForth --	I think this is a shareware version of Forth.  Other posters to
>		this group are using it; perhaps they can suggest archives
>		where you could obtain it.


 Actually, PocketForth is *free*ware...
 PocketForth is available right here at Michigan. The anonymous ftp
address I know about is:

 archive.umich.edu (141.211.165.41) (also called mac.archive.umich.edu)

 Here is the signon message:

530-Due to overwhelming usage during business hours, restrictions to ftp access
530-are now being enforced.  PLEASE be considerate and ftp during non-"business
530-hours" as much as possible.  Also, please keep connection times short.
530-
530-Weekends:                                         60 connections
530-Weekdays from 11pm 'til 4am:                      60 connections
530-Weekdays from 6pm 'til 11pm, and 4am 'til 6am:    30 connections
530-Weekdays from 6am 'til 6pm ("business hours"):    10 connections
530-
530-(All times are in EST.)
530-
530-            Thank you for your cooperation and understanding.

 Hope this helps...
 
 Ray Ingles
 ingles@engin.umich.edu

 "The meek can *have* the Earth. The rest of us are going to the stars!"
  - Robert A. Heinlein
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth.mac
From: schalk@symcom.math.uiuc.edu (Ken Schalk)
Subject: Stand-alone code segments in Forth
Summary: Is it possible?
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 22:18:17 GMT
Keywords: Pocket Forth WDEF XCMD blah blah blah

    I'm new to Forth and enjoying it immensely, but I have a question
about stand-alone code segments, such as WDEFs and XCMDs.  Let me just
say that I experienced in other languages (Pascal, C, C++, ...) and
the Mac Toolbox, and have written both WDEFs and XCMDs in the past.
    What I'm wondering is, is it possible to build such things with
any of the Mac Forth incarnations?  (Personally, I am toying with
Pocket Forth currently, as it is free.)  If so, how does the
implementation go about building the code resource?  Does it just take
a copy of the dictionary and add some setup code and a jump to the
entry-point word at the beginning?  If not, what the heck does it do?

    My guess is that it probably hasn't been done, as I think it might
be kind of painful to turn a Forth dictionary (or some subset thereof)
into a stand-alone code resource.  However, I think it would be
wonderful if it were possible.  Having written these things in the
past, I think the concept of a WDEF in Forth is a beautiful thing.
(Heck, once you had the basics laid out, you could churn out WDEF
after WDEF all the time, leading to a distinctive look for your apps,
albeit a degeneration of the interface standard. :-)

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
\\ Kenneth C Schalk \\\\"Is conciousness just a special form of \\\\\\  //-\
////////////////////////  hallucination?" -- Frank Herbert      ////// //-O|
\\ ken@imsa.edu \\\\\\\\"We're each other fragments...but each  \\\\\\ |   |
// schalk@mcs.anl.gov // fragment reveals the [whole] from a    //////  \_/
\\ k-schalk@uiuc.edu \\\ different angle..." -- William Gibson  \\\\\\
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth.mac
From: rfl@oddjob.uchicago.edu (Bob Loewenstein)
Subject: Yerk/Mops
Organization: University of Chicago, Astronomy and Astrophysics
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 15:20:24 GMT


In article <Bz5Cv4.2KE@chinet.chi.il.us> Ben Liberman, magik@chinet.chi.il.us writes:
>>The manual for both Yerk and Mops are derived from the original Neon
>>Manual (Large). 
>
>Does that mean that it is useful to have a copy of the Neon manual as well?

Not really. Large portions of both manuals are really the Neon manual.
There are changes to represent how Yerk and Mops are different from
the original Neon.
From: anderpe@hhcs.gov.au
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth.mac
Subject: Re: Survey
Date: 15 Dec 92 15:22:41 +1100
Organization: Aust. Dept. Health, Housing and Community Services

In article <Bz95uE.AB7@news.iastate.edu>, bible@iastate.edu (Anthony E Bible) writes:
> 
> 	Just to try to keep a little traffic going in this long dormant group:
> 
> What version of FORTH are you using on the Mac?
> 
> 
> I have MacForth.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> tony
-- 
Hi, i have just gained access to this thread.  I have had a long but not
involved association with Forth (IBM-PC and Commodore 64).  Since becomming a
MACophile I have not seen any information about versions of Forth for the MAC
(commercial or public domain).  Any information on available versions would be
most welcome.
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
| Peter Anderson                              ANDERPE@HHCS.GOV.AU |
|                                                                 |
| LAN Support Group                                               |
| Department of Health, Housing and Community Services            |
|                                                                 |
| Phone: 061 6 289 7820                      Fax:  061 6 289 8140 |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
 
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth.mac
From: jimlynch@netcom.com (Jim Lynch)
Subject: Re: Pocket Forth
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 03:27:59 GMT

Here's a pre-83 PICK for Pocket Forth,,, ROLL, -ROLL and PACK might be
forthcoming someday...

--- cut here
: code create -8 allot ;
 
hex
 
code pick ( works! )
 3D3C , 0002 ,  ( MOVE	#$02,-(PS) )
 4EAB , ' * ,   ( JSR	times-base(BP) )
 301E ,         ( MOVE	(PS)+,D0 )
 41F6 , 0000 ,  ( LEA	0(PS,D0.W),A )
 3D20 ,         ( MOVE	-(A0),-(PS) )
 4E75 ,         ( RTS )
 
decimal
 
: (-loop) ( amount to subtract from index -> flag for until. )
 r> r> ( ret addr )
 r> ( index )
 4 pick -
 dup r > 0= ( terminate do...-loop now? ) dup
 if   swap drop ( drop new index )
      r> drop ( drop limit )
      rot rot >r >r ( put ret addr back )
 else swap >r ( put index back )
      rot rot >r >r ( put ret addr back )
 then
 swap drop ( get rid of amount )
;
 
: -loop [ ' (-loop) literal ] compile [compile] until ; immediate
--- cut here

Oh yeah, here's a bonus: -loop!

Try this:

: CountBackwards 0 4 do r . 1 -loop ; CountBackwards

One more thing: 1 pick = dup, 2 pick = over...

Enjoy.

Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth.mac
From: skwong@CUSE26.SE.CUHK.HK ("Wong Sai Kee Graduate Assistant")
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Re: FORTH for the Mac
Date: 14 Dec 92 13:11:21 GMT
Reply-To: FIGI-L%BRUSPVM.BITNET@cmsa.Berkeley.EDU
Distribution: world
Organization: The Internet

In comp.lang.forth you write:

>On Sun, 6 Dec 1992 05:35:38 -0400 Roderick Pemberton said:
>>      Is anyone familiar with an archive/ftp site where I can download the
>>FORTH programming language?

>SIMTEL20. Try:
>TELL LISTSERV@RPIECS.BITNET /pdget pd:<msdos.forth>00-index.txt ascii

>                              (8-DCS)

Read the FAQ files and download the MOPS freeware.  I think you'd better
also read the comp.lang.forth.mac
From: James.Meyer@f1.n3641.z1.fidonet.org (James Meyer)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Where Can I Get The Basic
Date: 19 Dec 92 01:54:00 GMT

On 12-16-92, KENNETH LEE ATCHINSON wrote to ALL and said:

KL> Has anyone got a lead on a supplier of the Z8671 microprocessor?
KL> This microprocessor can be hooked up with few discrete circuitry
KL> and give a *working* computer with BASIC or FORTH programming
KL> environment.  I am more interested in the FORTH version, but I
KL> will take the BASIC one also.  I need address and phone please.

        You should contact Micromint by calling 1-800-653-3355.

        Their address is 4 Park Street in Vernon CT, 06066.

        Jim

 * JABBER v1.2 *
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
From: mikeh@starnine.com (Mike Haas)
Subject: Re: Forth for Amiga
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 03:21:29 GMT
Organization: StarNine Technologies, Inc.

In article <4170.UUL1.3#5129@willett.pgh.pa.us> ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie) writes:
>Category 7,  Topic 3
>Message 76        Wed Dec 02, 1992
>JTITTSLER [Jim]              at 03:15 EST
> 
>Is there a version of Forth available for the Amiga machines that completely
>takes over the machine and does not rely on the operating system?
>-----
>This message came from GEnie via willett.  You *cannot* reply to the author
>using e-mail.  Please post a follow-up article, or use any instructions
>the author may have included (USMail addresses, telephone #, etc.).
>Report problems to: dwp@willett.pgh.pa.us

JForth has a complete assembly-language interface... two assemblers,
both normal forward-parsing 68000 one and an RPN one.

It also allows access to all OS calls, devices, system structures, etc.
in system-documentation-consistent ways, so you can program the same
kind of 'takeover' program that you can in any other language.

If you have C source for what you want to do, it's easy to port
to jforth because a call like...

    MyWindow = OpenWindow(MyNewTemplate);

    converts to...

    MyNewTemplate OpenWIndow() MyWindow !

JForth is only complete Forth interface to the Amiga, including
ARexx, the hardware definitions, etc.  All of it.

Every C-style ".h" include file has an equivalent ".j" file
in JForth... you use the same system define names as documented
in Amiga literature.

Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth,comp.realtime
From: bible@iastate.edu (Anthony E Bible)
Subject: Re: New Book: _Forth: the New Model_
Keywords: forth,embedded,control,systems,ans,dpans,x3j14,standard
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 14:58:42 GMT

In article <jax.724484373@well.sf.ca.us> jax@well.sf.ca.us (Jack J. Woehr) writes:
>
>	For all of you who are in the halibut of waiting with baited
>breath for new Forth books, especially Forth books by jax, stay
>tuned for:
>
>_Forth: the New Model_ by Jack J. Woehr (Hi, Mom!) M&T Books 1992,
>ISBN 1-55851-277-2.
>

[summary deleted]


	This not a flame (not even an ember) but a sincere question:  How can
you already have a book coming out on ANS Forth (considering publishing 
lead-times and the fact the standard is still in process) without it being as 
out-of-date as the earlier Basis documents?  What is the likelihood there will 
have to be extensive revisions for a second edition?


Actually that was two sincere questions.

Regards,
tony
From: mikeh@kralizec.zeta.org.au (Michael Hore)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Re: FORTH for the Mac
Date: 15 Dec 1992 21:14:49 +1100
Organization: Kralizec Dialup Unix Sydney: +61-2-837-1183 V.42bis


Roger Pemberton writes:

>      Is anyone familiar with an archive/ftp site where I can download the
>FORTH programming language?

Try Yerk or Mops.  Both are descendants of Neon, and fully support the
Mac OS right up to System 7.  They're available for ftp from
oddjob@uchicago.edu.

They are OOP, but will run straight Forth OK.  Mops is fairly close to
ANSI already, and the next version will have a short file you can load
to give full ANSI compatibility.

--  Mike.     
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Hore     mikeh@kralizec.zeta.org.au
"Wisdom has never been known to enter the head through an open mouth"
-- overheard somewhere.
From: CAD@link.mordovia.su (Vladimir F. Beloff)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Help to contact Repro Gene
Date: 18 Dec 92 14:12:24 GMT
Reply-To: CAD@link.mordovia.su
Organization: Paramike Taranty Ltd.

Hi, ALL!
Help me ahybody to contact "Bimmen Rialty Inc." and "Repro Gene"
under the Western Reserve University! Can i to contact him my e-mail?

regargs, Vladimir
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
From: John_Somerville@mindlink.bc.ca (John Somerville)
Subject: Re: Defining variables automatically
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 06:55:55 GMT

This is an interesting point. I was tinkering around with some published code
which did some fancy footwork with the input stream. Unfortunately I could
not understand the code. Since the author had done such a good job on the
rest of the code I could only conclude his code was sound, and that my
understanding of the compiler (L&P) was faulty. Very unsatisfying. And a good
argument for a well thought out standard. Why should I be compelled to
understand a specific implementation to understand the code.

regards john
--
john somerville B.C. Hydro
affiliations FIG Forth Interest Group