HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: budd@fog.CS.ORST.EDU (Tim Budd)
Newsgroups: comp.object
Subject: Re: OOPSLA 92 summary
Date: 6 Nov 92 22:51:06 GMT
Article-I.D.: CS.1992Nov06.225106.16039
Organization: Oregon State University, Computer Science Dept.

husemann@camelot.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Dirk Husemann) writes:
>pbahrs@netftp.austin.ibm.com (Peter C Bahrs (boca)) writes:
>
>
>>Guest Speaker:
>>Bummer, he was running windows and it crashed 3 times during his presentation.
>>He went to using slides.  no flames, just fact.  This speaker was a
>>press type.  He did make some comments about ...those japenese...I think
>>the attendees from Japan were insulted a little....?
>
>Kind of set/showed the direction the whole conference was turning to: 
>commercialize as much as possible.
>

Dirk's comments (not all of which I reproduce) seem to indicate he thinks 
the conference has lost its intellectual roots, and become simply a vehicle 
for commercialization.  This is not the first time I have heard this.
I might make an obvious observation: the range of papers accepted and
presented reflects the papers submitted.  If more cutting-edge research 
papers had been submitted, more would probably have appeared at the conference.
Newsgroups: comp.object
Subject: Telecommuters, Remote Workers
From: 9138827a@levels.unisa.edu.au
Date: 2 Nov 92 17:33:44 +1030
Organization: University of South Australia

This item has been cross-posted to comp.lang.c
=================================================================

I am undertaking postgraduate study at the School of Library and
Information Management, University of South Australia, Adelaide, on
the particular information needs of telecommuters - those who perform
job-related work at a site away from an organisation and communicate
electronically rather than commuting physically.
 
I would be very interested in, and would greatly appreciate a response
from those who are telecommuters, to the following questions. If you
are not a telecommuter but know of others who are it would be
appreciated if you could pass this on to them:
 
 
Q1      Does the organisation to which you telecommute provide any
        library and information services which are accessible to you
        online? (eg catalogs, reference assistance, databases, literature
        searches, document delivery services, organisation information
        such as daily bulletins and administrative gazettes.)
 
        If yes:
 
        (a) What services are provided?
        (b) How useful are these services to you?
 
Q2      (a)     What is the nature of the organisation to which you
                telecommute?
 
        (b)     If you sometimes commute physically to your organisation,
                how frequently do you do this?
 
Q3      What are the particular information needs that you have as a
        telecommuter?
 
Q4      What basic information services do you consider should be
        provided by an organisation for its telecommuters? (see Q5 for
        additional and desirable services)
 
Q5      What additional information services would you perceive as being
        highly desirable for an organisation to provide for its
        telecommuters?
 
Q6      Are there any further comments you wish to make regarding the
        information needs of telecommuters?
 
Q7      Would you like a summary of the results of this survey E-mailed
        to you?
 
Respondents can be assured that individuals and organisations will not
be identified in any report or summary of this survey.
 
Please E-mail your response to my Internet address:
 
9138827a@ntx.city.unisa.edu.au
 
Thank you for your cooperation
 
Bronwen Strong 

Newsgroups: comp.object
From: lenzen@galaxy.fernuni-hagen.de (Frank Lenzen)
Subject: STILL LOOKING FOR EXPRESS-TOOLS
Organization: FernUniversitaet Hagen
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 08:25:00 GMT


Information on EXPRESS tools wanted!

If you have any tools which are related to the upcoming ISO standard 
EXPRESS (e.g. parser, constraint checker, databases, EXPRESS-G tools, 
EXPRESS-G to EXPRESS translator and vice versa, etc.), we would be very 
happy to hear from you. 

We are using EXPRESS very intensively in our work on modelling the 
domain of CAD objects in electronic design. Furthermore, we are planning 
to establish a tutorial on EXPRESS in a European  context, and our 
interest is  
(1)	to give an overview on existing EXPRESS tools,
(2)	to demonstrate EXPRESS tools, and 
(3)	to provide some good tools to support the participants' 
first practical steps in modelling with EXPRESS. 

If you can provide some information on available EXPRESS tools (either 
about tools which have been implemented by yourself or about tools which 
you are using), please contact us at the following address:





++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ FernUniversitaet Hagen   +  Frank Lenzen                   +
+ Praktische Informatik I  +                                 +
+ Feithstr. 140            +                                 +
+ W - 5800 Hagen 1         +  EMail: lenzen@fernuni-hagen.de +
+ Germany                  +  Fax-No. :  +49.2331.987.314    +
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From: pdc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Paul Crowley)
Newsgroups: comp.object
Subject: Re: objects and closures
Date: 5 Nov 92 14:46:47 GMT
Reply-To: pdc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Paul Crowley)
Organization: Do they make a washing powder called Caliban Automatic?

In article <BEVAN.92Nov3182229@hippo.cs.man.ac.uk> bevan@cs.man.ac.uk (Stephen J Bevan) writes:
>You could always use a language which has closure(goto) and lets you
>the _user_ add the syntax necessary to represent object(while) when
>and if they want it.  One example of this would be Scheme using its
>(hygenic) macro system.

...so long as everyone uses the same OO extension, of course.  I'm not
convinced of the virtue of this over everyone using the same OO
language.
  __                                ____
\/ o\ Paul Crowley pdc@dcs.ed.ac.uk \  /
/\__/ "I'm the boy without a soul"   \/
Newsgroups: comp.object
From: laisietl@iscs.nus.sg
Subject: constraint-based object-oriented language
Reply-To: LAISIETL@NUSDISCS.BITNET
Organization: Dept. of Information Systems and Computer Science, National University of Singapore
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 08:59:29 GMT

Dear Netters,
  Hi ... Does anyone have experience or information about constraint-based
object-oriented language ... pls mail it to me ...
If there is enough response, I may post a summary ...
Thank you !!

Regards,
  Lai Siet-Leng
From: aa713@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (John Brooking)
Newsgroups: comp.object
Subject: Re: C++ class libraries and OO-DBMS.
Date: 9 Nov 1992 16:06:41 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


I'm not sure which message number it was, but a while back Stewart
Clamen posted a summary of OODBMSs to this board and comp.databases.
I know it was article #18338 on comp.databases.  He mentioned that
it is also available via anonymous FTP from BYRON.SP.CS.CMU.EDU:
clamen/evolution-summary.  I found it a very helpful introduction.

- JohnB
-- 
"If you want peace, work for justice." Pope Paul VI |    Don Cole       aa563
-----------------------------------------------------    Jim Laird      aa723
Cleveland Freenet Peace Network              |  Sysops:  Rich Ceaser    aa771
FN Community Center, or type "go peace"      |           John Brooking  aa713
Xref: sparky comp.object:4208 comp.lang.smalltalk:2284
From: ac690@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Edward Klimas)
Newsgroups: comp.object,comp.lang.smalltalk
Subject: Re: Cost Estimating Using Function Points
Date: 12 Nov 1992 04:22:27 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: ac690@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Edward Klimas)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc4.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, p00058@psilink.com ("Ronald C. Schultz") says:

>In trying to gather information about the estimating of costs for OO 
>development, many vendors have stated that "function points" are their 
>most successful cost estimator.  I find this interesting in that 
>function points do not, in any way, appear "object-oriented".  Can 
>anyone supply me pointers, references, or examples as to how function 
>points are useful in cost estimating OO development, and what kinds of 
>modifications to function points are necessary in order to get them to 
>work in an OO environment?
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Ron Schultz 
>Berard Software Engineering, Inc.
>Columbus, Ohio Office                   Headquarters
>5634 Claire Court                       101 Lakeforest Blvd.
>Dublin, Ohio 43017-2440                 Gaithersburg, Md.  20877
>(614) 798-0295 Phone                    (301) 417-9884 Phone
>(614) 798-0296 FAX                      (301) 417-0021 FAX
>ron@bse.com                             info@bse.com
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------  

	Air Force Study Based on Function Point Analysis

		Language	Source Lines of Code Per Function Point
	Assembly Code			320
	Macro Assembly Code		213
	C				128
	FORTRAN/COBOL			105
	PASCAL				 91
	ADA				 71
	Smalltalk			 21
	4GL DB Query Languages		 13
	
	"A Description of Software Sizing Models", Griffiss A.F.B. Study
	Sept 1987 Based upon the SPQR Estimation Tool
	Prepared by IIT Information Center, 4550 Forbes Blvd Suite 300
	Lanham, MD.

	The interesting correlation is that there seems to be a direct
	independent correlation to productivity and other metrics based upon 
	instrumented metrics.

	Ed Klimas
	Linea Engineering
From: bevan@cs.man.ac.uk (Stephen J Bevan)
Newsgroups: comp.object
Subject: Re: OO COBOL
Date: 12 Nov 92 12:39:57 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester
In-reply-to: hopkins@cs.cmu.edu's message of 11 Nov 92 16:04:25 GMT

Whoever is creating a FAQ for this group, could they please put an
entry in about _not_ posting the "ADD ONE TO COBOL" joke every time
somebody mentions OO COBOL.  I'm sure I smiled when I first saw it,
but that was _years_ ago, it surely deserves FAQ status by now.

bevan
Xref: sparky comp.object:4147 comp.software-eng:4168
Newsgroups: comp.object,comp.software-eng
Subject: JOOP Address/Phone?
From: zxnoueih@wsuhub.uc.twsu.edu (...VALENCIA...)
Date: 5 Nov 92 12:01:52 CST
Organization: Wichita State University, Wichita, Ks

I am looking for the address and/or telephone number of the
Journal of Object Oriented Programming (JOOP) for subscription 
purposes.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Ziad.

e-mail: zxnoueih@wsuhub.uc.twsu.edu

Newsgroups: comp.object
From: davids@stsci.edu (David Silberberg)
Subject: Object oriented manifesto
Keywords: oo, manifesto
Organization: Space Telescope Science Institute
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 17:11:49 GMT

Can anyone e-mail or direct me to the Object-Oriented Manifest 
by Atkinson, et. al. ?

My address is: davids@stsci.edu

Thanks,
David
-----
David Silberberg			Internet: davids@stsci.edu
Space Telescope Science Institute	    SPAN: SCIVAX::DAVIDS
3700 San Martin Drive			  ATTnet: (410)516-5142
Baltimore, Maryland   21218
-- 
David Silberberg			Internet: davids@stsci.edu
Space Telescope Science Institute	    SPAN: SCIVAX::DAVIDS
3700 San Martin Drive			  ATTnet: (410)516-5142
Baltimore, Maryland   21218
From: ledford@networx.com (Don Ledford)
Newsgroups: comp.object
Subject: CORBA IDL Examples Please
Summary: CORBA IDL Examples Request
Keywords: OMG CORBA IDL
Date: 11 Nov 92 19:04:16 GMT
Organization: NetWorx
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

We have a large distributed computing application written in C++.   We plan
to expand its interoperability and are looking at alternatives toward this
end.

I'm working through the latest CORBA specification from OMG and will
gratefully receive any sample IDL specifications.  I'm also interested
in any experience, recommendations, blatant advertisements, ... with
respect to distrubuted object technologies.

Don Ledford
ledford@networx.com
Newsgroups: comp.object
From: night@acm.rpi.edu (Trip Martin)
Subject: Re: objects and closures
Reply-To: night@acm.rpi.edu
Distribution: na
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 16:41:30 GMT

In <BEVAN.92Nov7123646@hippo.cs.man.ac.uk> bevan@cs.man.ac.uk (Stephen J Bevan) writes:

>I realise that this is comp.object, however I would hope that most
>readers are not so partisan as think reuse implies OOP.  There are
>many ways to reuse code, inheriting from it is only _one_ method and I
>would venture not even the dominant one, even in OOL programs.

What other methods of reuse are there?
-- 
Trip Martin
night@acm.rpi.edu
--
Trip Martin
night@acm.rpi.edu
Newsgroups: comp.object
From: krab@iesd.auc.dk (Kresten Krab Thorup)
Subject: Re: constraint-based object-oriented language
Organization: Mathematics and Computer Science, Aalborg University
Date: 7 Nov 92 18:22:09

>>>>> On 5 Nov 92 08:59:29 GMT, laisietl@iscs.nus.sg said:

|> Dear Netters,
|>   Hi ... Does anyone have experience or information about constraint-based
|> object-oriented language ... pls mail it to me ...
|> If there is enough response, I may post a summary ...
|> Thank you !!

ThinglabII developed by Borning is a graphics constraint system
written in Smalltalk.

/Kresten
--
Kresten Krab Thorup, DAT3, D2-117 |       /   | E-mail : krab@iesd.auc.dk
Institute of Electronic Systems   |   ,-'/(   | S-mail : Sigrid Undsetsvej 234A
Aalborg University                |  /  |  \  |          9220 Aalborg \O
Fr. Bajers vej 7, 9220 Aalb. \O   |  A  U  C  |          98 15 18 44
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
           Member of the LPF - The League for Programming Freedom
Xref: sparky comp.object:4148 comp.software-eng:4169
Newsgroups: comp.object,comp.software-eng
Subject: Formal OO proofs?
From: zxnoueih@wsuhub.uc.twsu.edu (...VALENCIA...)
Date: 5 Nov 92 12:05:24 CST
Organization: Wichita State University, Wichita, Ks


I am looking for technical papers regarding formal proofs on
different aspects of Object Oriented Systems, such as Inheritance,
polymorphism, etc....

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Ziad.

e-mail: zxnoueih@wsuhub.uc.twsu.edu

Newsgroups: comp.object
From: jeh@windrider.llnl.gov (Jose E. Hernandez)
Newsgroups: comp.object
Subject: Re: constraint-based object-oriented language
Date: 6 Nov 92 02:08:00 GMT
Reply-To: jeh@llnl.gov
Organization: Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory

In article <1992Nov5.085929.8584@nuscc.nus.sg>, laisietl@iscs.nus.sg writes:
|> Dear Netters,
|>   Hi ... Does anyone have experience or information about constraint-based
|> object-oriented language ... pls mail it to me ...
|> If there is enough response, I may post a summary ...
|> Thank you !!
|> 
|> Regards,
|>   Lai Siet-Leng

Contact Brad.Myers@CS.CMU.EDU.  He and his team developed KR and I
believe it is public domain.
From: bevan@cs.man.ac.uk (Stephen J Bevan)
Newsgroups: comp.object
Subject: Re: objects and closures
Date: 7 Nov 92 13:10:13 GMT
	<720756315@sheol.UUCP> <BEVAN.92Nov3182229@hippo.cs.man.ac.uk>
	<Bx8zpz.4KE@dcs.ed.ac.uk>
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester
In-reply-to: pdc@dcs.ed.ac.uk's message of 5 Nov 92 14:46:47 GMT

In article <Bx8zpz.4KE@dcs.ed.ac.uk> pdc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Paul Crowley) writes:
   In article <BEVAN.92Nov3182229@hippo.cs.man.ac.uk> bevan@cs.man.ac.uk (Stephen J Bevan) writes:
   >You could always use a language which has closure(goto) and lets you
   >the _user_ add the syntax necessary to represent object(while) when
   >and if they want it.  One example of this would be Scheme using its
   >(hygenic) macro system.

   ...so long as everyone uses the same OO extension, of course.

No, not necessarily.  If I can write wrappers for FORTRAN code in C++,
writing a wrapper for an object in one OO extension to use in another
OO extension in the same language would be a doddle.

   I'm not convinced of the virtue of this over everyone using the same OO
   language.

* OO is abstraction mechanism.
* Users should be free to use or not as they see fit.
* There is no universal OO system.  For example, opinions differ on
  delegation vs. inheritance, single inheritance vs. multiple
  inheritance and static vs. latent typing.
* Users should not _necessarily_ have to change the base language to
  use OOP systems that cover these different perspectives.

bevan
Newsgroups: comp.object,comp.lang.c++,comp.ai.neural-nets
From: krus@cs.concordia.ca (Mike Krus)
Subject: SUMMARY: Neural Networks and OO
Organization: Computer Science, Concordia University, Montreal, Quebec
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 21:11:26 GMT

Here's what I got regarding my question about Neural Networks and Object
Oriented programming :

From:    Edwin Tisdale <edwin@CS.UCLA.EDU>
>The C++ Matrix class is available via anonymous ftp from `ftp.cs.ucla.edu'.
>Get the compressed tarfile `pub/Matrix.tar.Z'.  Uncompress `Matrix.tar.Z'.
>Extract the `Matrix' directory from `Matrix.tar'.  Then go to the `Matrix'
>directory and type `make'.  Now print and read the paper in `Matrix.dvi'.
>
>In order to demonstrate an application of the \verb"Matrix" class,
>it was used to implement the backward error propagation algorithm
>for multi-layer, feed-forward artificial neural networks.
>
>Enjoy, Bob Tisdale (edwin@cs.ucla.edu)
>
>P.S.  I hope the following notes will be helpful.
>
>unix% ftp ftp.cs.ucla.edu
>Name (ftp.cs.ucla.edu:your_login_ID): anonymous
>Password: your_login_ID
>ftp> cd pub
>ftp> binary
>ftp> get Matrix.tar.Z
>ftp> bye
>unix% uncompress Matrix.tar.Z
>unix% tar xvf Matrix.tar
>unix% cd Matrix
>unix% make
>unix% dvips Matrix | lpr
>unix% mv ffnet.new ffnet.old
>unix% cat ffnet.old ffnet.S | (backprop -v > ffnet.new) >>& ffnet.err
>unix% cat ffnet.new ffnet.S | evaluate | graph -m 0 | plot
>
>Note: If you have trouble, verify that the `SYS5' variable
>      in the `Matrix/src/genclass' shell script contains
>      the path to the System V version of the `m4' macro
>      pre-processor.
>      The `fig2dev' program is part of the `transfig' package
>      available via anonymous ftp from `ftp.cs.cornell.edu'.
>      Get `pub/transfig/transfig.tar.Z'.
>      The EPIC style file is available via anonymous ftp from
>      `ymir.claremont.edu'. Get `tex/inputs/latex-contrib/epic.sty'.
>      File `pub/Matrix.sun.tar.Z' includes all the files created by
>      `make' on UCLA CSD Sun4 computers.  It may be useful to Sun
>      computer users or those who just want to print the documentation.
>



From:    My Account <me@sound.music.mcgill.ca> and
From:    Ben Dobson <Benjamin.Dobson@newcastle.ac.uk>
>There is a book called "Neural Networks in C++" by Adam Blum published by
>Wiley which includes a bunch of code and also you can get a disk with the
>source code for the examples in the book.
>
>Camelot Books has it for $48.95.  
>
>I've got the book myself and it covers a couple of algorithms -
>BackProp, CountProp, Hop nets etc.




Plus few comments about a book you shoul NOT buy !!
>Avoid: NN in C++ by Adam Blum.  It is shallow, expensive, has a
>half-hearted attempt at examples and the code is just a mass of bugs. 

That's all for now...

-- 
Michael Krus.					 Email : krus@cs.concordia.ca
Concordia University				Universite d'Orsay - Paris XI
Montreal, Canada					        Paris, France
Man is the only animal that blushes...or needs to.
From: kend@data.rain.com (Ken Dickey)
Newsgroups: comp.object
Subject: Re: objects and closures
Date: 5 Nov 92 20:11:29 GMT
Article-I.D.: data.730
Organization: Microtek DSD, Hillsboro, OR

throopw@sheol.UUCP (Wayne Throop) writes:

>I think that "objects are a poor being's closures" is true in the same
>sense that "while constructs are a poor being's conditional goto".  The
>closure(goto) is the much more powerful construct when compared to the
>object(while), but that's not the interesting relationship between the
>two.  The *interesting* relationship is that the essentially-syntactic
>sucrose making up the object(while) captures an interesting subcase of
>the closure(goto), which aids software developers in reasoning about a
>program's behavior.

>So in one sense it is the poor being who *has* the closure(goto), but
>*lacks* the object(while).

I think that you have the relationship inverted.  Having OO only is
like having WHILE, but not IF, DO, CASE, and GOTO.  If you have your
choice of imperative, OO, functional, etc. styles you have a wider
range of solutions to choose from in solving a particular problem.
Yes, you can simulate IF using WHILE, but there are times when IF is
a more natural solution.  OO does not automatically lead to good style
or "reasonable" programs.

For that matter, one can use (implement) several different object
models of computation.  It is at times fun and convenient to do so. 

Some time ago I heard it argued that checking spelling interactively
was a *bad idea* because it did not fit in well with the Unix pipe
model (sort | uniq | spell).  I think that "OO only and everywhere"
has similar faults.


-Ken Dickey
P.S.  Yes, I have implemented several object systems using closures.
I have also designed and build a number of industrial software systems.
Newsgroups: comp.object
From: knight@mrco.carleton.ca (Alan Knight)
Subject: Re: objects and closures
Reply-To: knight@mrco.carleton.ca (Alan Knight)
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 15:15:13 GMT

In <Bx5DFt.7z3@dcs.ed.ac.uk> pdc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Paul Crowley) writes:

>I think this is an excellent and thought-provoking analogy.  Objects
>are closures you can keep track of in your head.  This is why I'm not
>clear why you'd want ML-style closures and higher-orderness in an
>object oriented language; it seems contrary to the style of OO
>programming.  

I don't think it's contrary the spirit of OO programming. I'm fond of
closures and higher-orderness in general, regardless of whether the
language is OO. Smalltalk certainly makes very extensive use of them,
and is usally considered OO.







-- 
 Alan Knight  knight@mrco.carleton.ca  +1 613 788 2600x5783 
 Dept. of Mechanical and Aerospace Engineering              
 Carleton University, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, K1S 5B6      

Newsgroups: comp.object
From: hopkins@cs.cmu.edu (Don Hopkins)
Subject: Re: OO COBOL
Originator: hopkins@ECP.GARNET.CS.CMU.EDU
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon University
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 16:04:25 GMT

It's called "ADD ONE TO COBOL".
Please put some deep thought into why you would want to use such a
thing, then don't.  

	-Don
Newsgroups: comp.object
From: jgg@evb.com (John Goodsen)
Subject: Re: constraint-based object-oriented language
Organization: EVB Software Engineering, Inc.
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 01:05:10 GMT


>|> Dear Netters,
>|>   Hi ... Does anyone have experience or information about constraint-based
>|> object-oriented language ... pls mail it to me ...
>|> If there is enough response, I may post a summary ...
>|> Thank you !!
>
>ThinglabII developed by Borning is a graphics constraint system
>written in Smalltalk.
>

Check out Garnet also.  The 2 way constraint mechanism in 
Thinglab has been integrated into Garnet (but is not yet packaged
with Garnet)...

Garnet is not an OO constraint based language, but is a GUI system
based upon the core functiolity of the Garnet constraint system.

Newsgroup:  comp.windows.garnet

or send mail to Brad Myers at CMU:   bam@cs.cmu.edu

--
John Goodsen                           PCIS Programme
Software Process & Environments        Ada Joint Program Office       
EVB Software Engineering               goodsenj@ajpo.sei.cmu.edu
jgg@evb.com