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Date:         Wed, 2 Sep 1992 02:00:32 EDT
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From:         Bill McGarry <wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com>
Subject:      Handicap Digest # 2908
X-To:         LHCAP <l-hcap@VM1.NODAK.EDU>

                             THE HANDICAP DIGEST

                                 Issue # 2908

                         Tuesday, September 01, 1992

Today's Topics:


                                ******


                                Deaf Culture
                                want old box
                               On Signing....
                          Use of specialised progs
                       Re: Peeking? Closer to Seeking.
                               Re: Shhh Report
                              Re: Attagirl!!!!
                          Re: Brs: Invasion Of Priv
                                 Cued Speech
                          fox-fordych syndrome....


                                ******


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                              Bill McGarry (Moderator)
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Subject: Deaf Culture
From: Caren.Park@f15.n343.z1.fidonet.org (Caren Park)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:343/15 - SeaEast PC Exchange, Kirkland WA


[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]

LG...or French culture.  Any more than riding around in a wheel
LG...chair is a cultural alternative to walking.  I have three
LG...reasons --

LG...1) There are six thousand words in ASL.  There are six
LG...HUNDRED thousand words in English.

.1.  if i might ask, what is your reference for EITHER of your statements?

.2.  let's presuppose your statement is true...  does this mean ASL is
inferior because it does not have the same number of words (or even within
an order or magnitude)?

.3.  would you consider yourself to be "handicapped" because your language
(whatever it might be) doesn't have several hundred subtly-different ways to
describe "cold" or "ice" as do the eskimos?  would you consider it a
handicap not to be able to describe several hundred subtly-different ways to
describe "hot" as to sub-saharan travelers?

 * SLMR 2.1a * Would you rather get on the plane or in the plane?

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!343!15!Caren.Park
Internet: Caren.Park@f15.n343.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: want old box
From: Janet.Fanning@p0.f420.n141.z1.fidonet.org (Janet Fanning)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:141/420.0 - The Handicap News, Shelton CT


[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]

I need a inexpensive closed caption box.  If someone has one to sell (if
you are upgrading), please let me know.  Thanks  Janet

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!420.0!Janet.Fanning
Internet: Janet.Fanning@p0.f420.n141.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: On Signing....
From: Morgan.Lefae@f6.n290.z1.fidonet.org (Morgan Lefae)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:290/6 - Karma *VS* Dogma, Des Moines IA


[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]

Ann,

Actually, the quote you attributed to me in your message was what
I'd quoted from someone else's message.

I've taken both ASL and Signed English classes and most of the deaf
people I communicate with use some sort of combination of the two,
leaning more toward ASL.

The structure and syntax of ASL is very different from English but
I find signing in English to be very cumbersome and awkward...too
many signs to stick in if the conversation is going rapidly.  But I
understand what you're saying about ASL users having low
comprehension rates for written English.  I've known some who,
based on their reading and writing would be illiterate, even though
they are highly intelligent, expressive people.

I saw a 'Deaf Bible' once.  That was very instructive for me.  I
could see how the words were patterned and it helped me with ASL.

Morgan

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!290!6!Morgan.Lefae
Internet: Morgan.Lefae@f6.n290.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Use of specialised progs
From: Lincoln.Decoursey@f220.n260.z1.fidonet.org (Lincoln Decoursey)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:260/220 - Exit 47, LeRoy NY


[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]

First of all, let me introduce myself, I am (as if you couldn't have
guessed) Lincoln DeCoursey, I am not deaf, or hard of hearing.
I can hear you now "well what are you doing on this conf. then?"
Well, not much, but my sysop is hearing impared (I am not sure if he
is deaf or just HOH) so I use a more generic term, which sounds better
and is less offensive. What brings me is that my sysop made a file
avaliable called "Futurra TDD" a communication program for the hearing
impared. My first question is What advantage does this program have over
the vast amount of communication programs for people without such
dis-advantages?  I first thought that it had all the numers programmed
into it, then I thought that anybody could create a dialing list
compatable with any popular comm programs like Telix, or Qmodem, or
Procomm, or Bitcom, etc. Does this specialised program offer specialised
emulation? Well, I thought of that and I have come up with Anybody could
create an emulation file compatible with Telix, and rename it to
corespond with something like Wang, or Wyse-50 so Telix thought it was
emulating Wang, yet really a specialised emulation for you guys and
gals.
I think that the company in Canada that makes telix would probably
create (if not already there) the proper way to include extended
emulation. What's the deal folks, am I at all right.
Type to _ya later.

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!260!220!Lincoln.Decoursey
Internet: Lincoln.Decoursey@f220.n260.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Re: Peeking? Closer to Seeking.
From: Jack.O'keeffe@f26.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Jack O'keeffe)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/26 - SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]

 RR> referring to cochealar implants, the potential risks and
 RR> minimal gains don't strike some people as worth it. Few
 RR> experience what could be termed as a tremendous improvement.

I'd be interested in knowing any factual basis you may have for your
statement that "Few experience what could be termed as a tremendous
improvement."  (Other than the self-serving propaganda from NAD -
I've seen all that.)

 RR>  what do you know about a publication called "Voice?" I saw it
 RR>  once. I think it is or was published in Texas itself.

"Voice" has changed its name.  It is now being published under
the name "Hearing Health".  I had a nice conversation with the
publisher while in Cedar Rapids.  You're correct, it's published
in Corpus Christi, TX.

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!26!Jack.O'keeffe
Internet: Jack.O'keeffe@f26.n129.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Re: Shhh Report
From: Jack.O'keeffe@f26.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Jack O'keeffe)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/26 - SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]

 AS> SHHH has a lot of deaf members, so it is not just for the
 AS> hard of hearing.

Quite true, including many like you who were born deaf.  Even
some whose first language was ASL.

 AS> In fact, there are a lot of HoH folks who are more deaf
 AS> than they are HoH.

I have deaf friends, even DEAF friends, who have better audiograms
than I have.  But I'm not deaf - I'm hearing impaired or hard of
hearing.  (Hmmm, maybe I'm still in denial :-)

I believe everyone has the right to "label" themselves however
they wish.  The principal distinction that I see in SHHH members
is that, whatever their hearing loss, they choose to remain part
of the hearing world.  They're NOT cultists.

 AS> I don't mean to sound tacky, just being realistic and honest.

Me too!

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!26!Jack.O'keeffe
Internet: Jack.O'keeffe@f26.n129.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Re: Attagirl!!!!
From: Hugues.Blanchet@f136.n167.z1.fidonet.org (Hugues Blanchet)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:167/136 - Ab.'s Place, Montreal PQ


[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]

 Howdy Ma'am...

 -=> Quoting Ann Stalnaker to Hugues Blanchet <=-

 HB> You know something Ann? I've known a few people (hearing people) that
 HB> took signing classes for one reason... because they REAlLY were
 HB> attracted by ONE thing only; the MYSTERY of it.  Nothing more than that!

 AS> I'm going to have to agree with you on this because I see it happen
 AS> all of the time.  I have taken sign language (found it a bit difficult
 AS> using ASL because I think in English since it is my first language
 AS> and thus want to use SEE - instructor didn't much like that!  :-))
 AS> and have had any folks tell me they are taking sign language
 AS> because it fascinates them, not because they want to communicate
 AS> with those who use it.

Absolutely!  I would say that on a total of 10 persons who take
signing lessons here in Montreal, at least 6 or 7 of them will quit
sooner or later.  They will not go much farther than the first session
(there are a total of 5).  But all those people are simply attracted
to mystery....until it isn't a mystery a little later...;-)

There are those who do it becauase there profession demands it
(psycologists, social workers, etc... who need to communicate with
deaf who only sign) and there are also those who learn it because it's
*their only mean* (for THEM it's their only mean, but not for ALL
Deaf people) of communication.  Their are those who learn
it because they have someone close in the family (or their friends)
who don't know nothing except signing or who are affected by a desease
that doean't give them any choice but to learn signing.

And finally, their are those (and they are quite a bunch!) that are
attracted by *mystery*... and those are the ones that never go very
far.  They realize that is isn't a mystery at all. It's simply a mean
of communication but much less *powerfull* than their own language
which is the english language.

If there was a language that would show me new words that don;t exist
in the english vocabulary (or french in my case), I would surely
accept to learn it, whatever language it would be.  But why should I
wan't to learn something I already have (a language) that would permir
me to talk to a minority?  Should'nt it be up to them to adapt to a
majority?

Ann, if we both lived on an island where their was 10,000 people and
that everybody except you and me spoke turkish,  wouldn't it be better
for us to learn to speak turkish also to be able to communicate with the
majority on the island?

 AS> I can't comment on missing hearing because I've never had enough
 AS> to be able to distingush between the sounds.  Even though I was
 AS> born deaf, I was not exposed to the Deaf Culture until 10 years
 AS> ago and was very much appalled by what I felt could have been
 AS> different.
 AS> Culture who could not comprehend simple English language and
 AS> even wrote in ASL.

I understand completely Ann... Everything is simply a question of
education... Am I wrong?  Should we accept being part of a minority
if we FEEL that we are HUMAN BEINGS in the first place?  No! If we
feel that we are like everybody else (with one sense less but nothing
else!), then we do not feel that we should be APART from them.  We are
normal people in the first place, but it won't be the case if we set
ourselves aside with a minority and reject ALL those that aren't like
ourselves!

 AS> The world definitely would be a much better place if all
 AS> of us worked together.  There have been times when those
 AS> who are a part of the Deaf Culture have made life a bit
 AS> difficult for the rest of us who want to help ourselves.

...So true... so true Ann..... But when we feel strong and right in
our own phylosophy of all this, we don't bend
that easily, huh?!?....<gggggggggg>

 AS> I've never felt I didn't belong anywhere - I never felt
 AS> I needed to belong to one group or the other.  While I
 AS> do enjoy meeting others with hearing impairments and sharing
 AS> my experiences of life being deaf, I don't dwell on the fact
 AS> that I am deaf.  I make the best of what I do have and seem
 AS> to fit in anywhere.  I call this accepting the fact I have
 AS> a hearing impairment and go on my merry way enjoying what
 AS> is out in the BIG world.

ATTAGIRL once again!!!  "High noon in Tejas!" <ggggggg>

Somebody thinks like youuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu... and I looooooooove her
soooooooo muuuuuuuuuuuuuuuch.... We all know who she
iiiiiiiiiiiisssss....<ggggggggggg> ...

Ok. I'll be honest... Yes it was *that* pictuire of... uhhh... er,
well you know... ...  Someone that has such a beautiful smile... can
inly be loveable...

 AS> one didn't do in the past when they had hearing.  We may
 AS> not be able to hear music (perhaps some of it) and other
 AS> sounds, there is still a lot around for us to enjoy.

BUT... we can surely *hear* it again with our minds.... and it's
always as wonderful...

 AS>
 AS> Whether one is deaf/Deaf/HoH, the best thing to do is not
 AS> let yourself dwell on the fact you have a hearing impairment,
 AS> don't be a deaf person first, be an individual who just
 AS> happens to be deaf/Deaf/HoH.

Righto!!! We're A-L-L NORMAL HUMAN BEINGS who only *happen to miss a
meal once in a while* <ggggggggggg>

En toute amitie,

Hugues

... Ahh! Come on George, just this one last little feature!
--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!167!136!Hugues.Blanchet
Internet: Hugues.Blanchet@f136.n167.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Re: Brs: Invasion Of Priv
From: Hugues.Blanchet@f136.n167.z1.fidonet.org (Hugues Blanchet)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:167/136 - Ab.'s Place, Montreal PQ


[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]

 Hi Leti,

 -=> Quoting Leti Labell to Hugues Blanchet <=-

 LL> I DO have a little more input on the monitoring of phone calls.  In
 LL> the case  of operator assisted calls, ALL operators are monitored on an
 LL> occasional  basis, to make sure they are giving the proper service.
 LL> True, the types of  calls that are being monitored are not personal
 LL> information like you would have on a relay call.  However, there is a
 LL> precedence for the  monitoring of operators.

Yes, I know... There still is a problem because even if private calls
are sometimes monitored "to assure the quality of the lines", the
probability that OUR calls are monitored are MUCH GREATER than the
normal voice to voice callers... because the percentage of calls
being relayed is much less than the one of calls voice to voice.  And
if such a system is installed, the number of relay calls that are
monitored are M-U-C-H GREATER than the voice-to-voice calls.

THAT'S is also a serious problem!!!

 LL> All operators are covered under strict confidentiality rules, and at
 LL> least at  the company I work for (Bell Atlantic), operators would be
 LL> fired if they  break that confidentiality.  It doesn't happen often,
 LL> but when it does,  everyone knows about it (the firing, I mean.)

Sure they do, but what if the calls are monitored by BOSSES. WHO can
fire them if THEY decide to *make copies of the calls for research
reasons*...????

Sincerely,

Hugues

... The Blue Wave echo, were suggestions are taken seriously!
--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!167!136!Hugues.Blanchet
Internet: Hugues.Blanchet@f136.n167.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Cued Speech
From: Ed.Price@p0.f109.n382.z1.fidonet.org (Ed Price)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:382/109.0 - The Back Counter, Cedar Park TX


[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]

Hi All!
  I don't know if this is going to start another argument over one
language being better than the other, but I'm really curious.
  In the Monday edition of our local paper (Austin Am. Statesman) there
is a large article about "Cued Speech".  I was wondering if it would be
to my advantage to start learning this different sign technique, or will
it be another "Passing Phase"?
  Oh, by the way, I am hearing.  A Police Officer in Austin,TX. and I
volunteer my time to work in the school "Mentor" program where I deal
with all levels of hearing impaired students.  I have a limited
knowledge (But continuously growing!) of A.S.L. and am concerned that now
I'll have to add to my confusion by learning "Cued Speech".
  And one more thing, for reference, I got involved in this program,
with the consequent learning of "Sign", because I LOVE KIDS!   Not some
curiosity! (Off Soapbox Mode...)

  Anyway, anything y'all can offer might help my confusion,
Thanx in advance

Ed Price

... sysop ('sih sop) n. - the guy laughing at your typing
--
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Internet: Ed.Price@p0.f109.n382.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: fox-fordych syndrome....
From: Gordon.Gillesby@f1007.n282.z1.fidonet.org (Gordon Gillesby)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:282/1007 - DRAG-Net, Andover MN


[This is from the Rare Disorders Conference]

GG**>SM**> GG> BM**>  National Organization for Rare Disorders
GG**>SM**> GG> BM**>  P.O. Box 8923
GG**>SM**> GG> BM**>  New Fairfield, CT 06812
GG**>SM**> GG> BM**>  (203) 746-6518

GG**>SM**>Would this organization be useful in getting information on a dermato
GG**>SM**>condition known as Fox-Fordyce syndrome?

GG**>   As far as I can determine, yes they would....

Postscript....

   I checked NORD's most recent list of database entries for rare
disorders and they DID NOT have anything on Fox-Fordyce syndrome.  Also,
I could NOT find an entry on the subject in Taber's Medical
Encyclopedia.

   Several possibilities exist.  First, this may be one of several names
for the same disorder.  If so, it could be listed under a more
recogniseable name.  Second, the disorder could be so new that it hasn't
been cataloged yet.  If that's the case, then you may want to notify
NORD so they can start collecting information.  Third, you can check
with the Center for Disease Control and/or the National Institute of
Health to see if they have information on it.  Fourth, you can have your
local librarian find contact information to the nearest major university
which supports a medical library.  Then contact the Medical Library and
request information from them.

   Query: would you care to share what you know (no matter how little)
about Fox-Fordyce syndrome?  It might help me track down more info....

                                 - glg -

                           9208.26 - 10:21.56

 ~ OLX 2.2 ~ Mail your ideas written on the back of a $20 bill to...

--
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Internet: Gordon.Gillesby@f1007.n282.z1.fidonet.org




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                  End of Issue # 2908 of the Handicap Digest

                                ******
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