HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: comp.org.decus
Subject: Re: membership into DECUS
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 04:36:18 -0500

> The bottom line is that there now is precidence for the Board of the  
U.S.
 
> Chapter to deny anyone membership and throw them out of a DECUS event  
with
 
> out any due process (I believe that they violated the bylaws when they
 
> threw him about and when they denied him membership in the chapter). 
 
 
 
If this is true, Mitnick has an excellent case to sue DEC!  There is  
probably case law on this, since the Bylaws may represent an implied
 
contract between persons who are members of DEC and the company's
 
DECUS division.  (As you stated, DECUS is a wholly-owned subsidary
 
of DEC, and, based on the rather excessive charges for EVERYTHING
 
DECUS puts out, probably a profit center, too.)  
 
 
 
There is precedent on almost the same issue in employment lawsuits,
 
and the Bylaws could be held to be of the same nature as an Employee
 
Handbook.
 
 
 
I might be wrong on this point.  Did Mitnick break into one of Digital's  
sites or did he and his assistant break into a DEC computer which was
 
owned by a customer?  If the former, then DEC could, conceivably, have
 
the right to impose an "interdict" upon a person who committed a crime
 
against them.  
 
 
 
If, on the other hand, Mitnick broke into the computer of a private  
company, not affiliated with DEC, then DEC is on very shaky legal ground  
to impose what amounts to a boycott upon a specific individual absent
 
some evidence that there is reason to believe that he might commit a 
 
crime against them.  And since what he was ejected from were educational
 
seminars and not, for example, a "hands on tutorial" on how to use a 
 
particular computer and/or application, they are on *extremely* weak
 
grounds.  
 
 



Newsgroups: comp.org.decus
From: klr@umbc4.umbc.edu (Kurt Reisler)
Subject: Re: "The New DEXPO Seminar"
Organization: Hadron.com in exile
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 21:55:48 GMT

In article <1992Oct12.105946.4095@spcvxb.spc.edu> killeen@spcvxb.spc.edu (Jeff Killeen) writes:
>In article <1992Oct12.030032.25790@umbc3.umbc.edu>, klr@umbc4.umbc.edu (Kurt Reisler) writes:
>> However, there is something that DEXPO can do, to give them a
>> competative edge.  Historically DECUS (excuse me, the US Chapter of
>> DECUS) has consistantly refused to offer any honoraria to their seminar
>> speakers (of course, the presenters from DEC's Ed Services are DEC
>> Employees, to they are another case entirely).  The seminar speakers
>> for the other DECUS Chapters (Europe, Canada, GIA, etc.) do receive
>> honoraria, in some cases based on the number of attendees that the
>> seminar attracts.  While I do not know the arrangement that DEXPO has
>> made with their non-DEC presenters, I would be more than willing to bet
>> that there is an honorarium involved.  How 
>
>As it has already been pointed out this is not TTI's first attempt to compete
>with DECUS Seminars.  They have offered dollars before and they are offering
>dollars now.  It seems almost most all the DECUS seminars speakers are willing
>to do this for reasons other than dollars.  The ones who were dollar motivated 
>left long ago...
>

And, as things get tighter and tighter for the DECUS volunteers, more
and more will be looking at the "dollar" not as a motivator in the sense
you mean, but as a motivator as in "way of getting there".  Times
change, perhaps the US Chapter should as well?


-- 
                Kurt Reisler (UNISIG Chair, DECUS US Chapter)
		  Captain, UNISIG International Luge Team
		     Only a guest at klr@umbc4.umbc.edu
	     Are creative spellings like a patentable life form?
From: mzagsaa@v4.cgu.mcc.ac.uk (Tony Arnold)
Newsgroups: comp.org.decus
Subject: Re: "The New DEXPO Seminar"
Date: 12 Oct 92 09:21:59 GMT
Reply-To: A.C.Arnold@mcc.ac.uk
Organization: Manchester Computing Centre


In article <1992Oct12.030032.25790@umbc3.umbc.edu>, klr@umbc4.umbc.edu
(Kurt Reisler) writes:
|>However, there is something that DEXPO can do, to give them a
|>competative edge.  Historically DECUS (excuse me, the US Chapter of
|>DECUS) has consistantly refused to offer any honoraria to their
|>seminar
|>speakers (of course, the presenters from DEC's Ed Services are DEC
|>Employees, to they are another case entirely).  The seminar speakers
|>for the other DECUS Chapters (Europe, Canada, GIA, etc.) do receive
|>honoraria, in some cases based on the number of attendees that the
|>seminar attracts.  While I do not know the arrangement that DEXPO has
|>made with their non-DEC presenters, I would be more than willing to
|>bet
|>that there is an honorarium involved.  How long will the U.S. DECUS
|>Seminar offerings continue to be successful, if the best of the
|>"volunteer presentations" are drawn in to the DEXPO "web", by the
|>"evil" offering of compensation?

I'm not quite sure what you mean by 'honoraria' here. If you mean a fee
for speaking, the DECUS Europe does NOT give this to seminar speakers.
All we do is waive registration and pay travel and accommodation
expenses for our seminar speakers. Maybe the US Chapter does not even go
this far?

Tony Arnold,

DECUS Europe SIG Council Chairman.
Newsgroups: comp.org.decus,biz.dec.turbochannel,comp.sys.dec,biz.dec.workstations
From: maklinm@cognos.com (Max Maklin)
Subject: Re: SCSI Controller For TurboChannel?
Organization: Cognos Incorporated, Ottawa CANADA
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 04:17:26 GMT

In article <1992Oct8.174241.4068@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov> chu@hanauma.jpl.nasa.gov 
(Eugene Chu) writes:
:^()  
:^()  
:^()  >>Hello,
:^()  
:^()  >>I hope someone who is in the know can help me with this.  I am looking for
:^()  >>a Wide SCSI controller for the TurboChannel on a DS5000/240.  I know that
:^()  >>DEC, and perhaps some third party, makes an 8 bit SCSI-2 controller for
:^()  >>the TC.  What I need is a controller that has the second connector on
:^()  >>it for 16 or 32 bit wide data paths.  I think these things exist for the
:^()  >>VME bus, and even the SUN S-Bus.  If anyone has any information on this,
:^()  >>I would greatly appreciate letting me know.
:^()  
:^()  >>thanks in advance.
:^()  >>eyc
:^()  >>-- 
:^()  

Also, Eugene, if you can hang on, for say, a few months or so I think you
may be finding some very interesting storage solutions from Digital along
the lines you may be looking at.  I believe this is what AJ is implying
from Digital's end of things, but he and many of us are unfortuneately
sworn to secrecy :)

Max
-- 
Max Maklin                                                P.O. Box 9707 
Technical Analyst	                           3755 Riverside Drive
Cognos Incorporated                              Ottawa, Ontario CANADA
Internet: maklinm@cognos.COM                 UUNet: maklinm@cognos.UUCP
From: Paul.Robinson@f417.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Paul Robinson)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: comp.org.decus
Subject: Favorable Remarks on Digital
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 04:36:21 -0500

In a message From: pgravel@nap.amoco.com (Philip L. Gravel) who said:
 
 
 
> > Excuse me, but have you just recently returned from an off-planet
 
> > vacation?
 
> 
 
> I don't think so, but on the VAX Echomail Conference of Fidonet, Paul  
> is not known for his sympathetic views on Digital, its products or 
 
> services.  
 
 
 
To misquote General Schwartzkopf:
 
 
 
  Digital can't seem to match market prices on products and
 
  services.  In ordinary equipment, the cry is "I'd love to
 
  have an all Digital shop but I can't afford it."  DEC's 
 
  competitors have been eating its lunch for several years.
 
  When it started having problems with its intellectual 
 
  property, instead of trying to figure ways to make money
 
  off of it, it decided to sue people, in several cases 
 
  discovering patents being invalidated on technical grounds.
 
 
 
  DEC doesn't have a "reputation for Quality" (that honor goes
 
  to IBM; people may have very few nice things to say about IBM
 
  but they can't fault its quality); DEC doesn't have a reputation
 
  for value as they are chronically seen as the high price leader,
 
  a charge which could be easily levelled at IBM but I don't hear
 
  people criticise their pricing structure.  It doesn't have a 
 
  reputation for following the market; it took a bath on the 
 
  Rainbow and orphaned it, just as IBM did the same thing on the
 
  PC Jr. and for the same reason.
 
 
 
  DEC is not known for quality.  It's not known for price.  It's
 
  not known for value.  It's not known for providing the products
 
  people want.  Other than that, it's a great computer company!
 
 
 
  And it just lost a quarter of a billion dollars.
From: jms@carat.arizona.edu (A virtually vegetal non-entity)
Newsgroups: comp.org.decus
Subject: Re: "Decus NEVER gives refunds."
Date: 7 Oct 92 15:10:00 GMT
Reply-To: jms@Arizona.EDU
Distribution: world,local
Organization: University of Arizona MIS Department - Mosaic Group
X-Lunar-Date: 1 day, 15 hours, 25 minutes since the first quarter of the moon
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.50A

In article <718444781.F00004@blkcat.UUCP>, Paul.Robinson@f417.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Paul Robinson) writes...

>There is an old saying that "DECUS {Never} gives refunds."  

Oh, that's nonsense.  DECUS has always given refunds when circumstances
are appropriate.  What is true is that DECUS, as a volunteer-run 
organization, is less sympathetic than some huge corporation which has
"customer satisfaction engineers" running around telling everyone 
what to do.  

When we decided to drop the Newsletters this year, the question of
refunds came up.  Obviously we'd prefer not to give them, so we gave
everyone a free DECUServe subscription (worth more than their refund)
as a first-level handling of the problem.  However, anyone who insists
that they want a refund will get one.

Personally, I intend to keep the DECUServe subscription: that's a $35
value instead of a $6 refund.  

jms

Joel M Snyder, 1103 E Spring Street, Tucson, AZ, 85719 
Phone: 602.882.4094 (voice) .4095 (FAX) .4093 (data)
BITNET: jms@Arizona  Internet: jms@arizona.edu  SPAN: 47541::telcom::jms
Yow!  It's some people inside the wall!  This is better than mopping!
From: ken@sycraft.com (Ken Richardson)
Newsgroups: comp.org.decus
Subject: Re: "The New DEXPO Seminar"
Date: 13 Oct 92 23:42:43 MDT
Organization: SyCraft Software, Colorado Springs CO

I am posting this on behalf of Tim Mueller (DMS SIG Chair).  He adds the
following points to this discussion (Kurt and Killeen have both posted new
notes since this was written around 14:00 Oct 13):
--
Kurt (and Killen) have both missed a few salient points:

	1.  Not all the TTI/DEXPO seminars are NaC offerings: one
	    came from DMS (user-provided) and one from Hardware
	    (Storage Systems).  There may be others as well.
	2.  Not all the offerings which were declined by the DECUS 
	    seminars group were "low interest or marginal" ("low interest" ==
	    low profit margin).
	3.  None of the Digital speakers are from Ed Services -
	    those seminars are handled under a vastly different
	    algorithym by DECUS Seminars.
	4.  Yes, there is an honoraria involved: less than the
	    cost of a five day symposium registration.

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Ken Richardson  | SyCraft Software | When wealth is lost, nothing is lost;
 ken@sycraft.com | Colorado Springs | when health is lost, something is lost;
                 | CO, USA          | when character is lost, all is lost.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: klr@umbc4.umbc.edu (Kurt Reisler)
Newsgroups: comp.org.decus
Subject: Re: membership into DECUS
Date: 11 Oct 92 17:07:05 GMT
Organization: Hadron.com in exile

In article <718808683.F00001@blkcat.UUCP> Paul.Robinson@f417.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Paul Robinson) writes:

>I might be wrong on this point.  Did Mitnick break into one of Digital's  
>sites or did he and his assistant break into a DEC computer which was
>owned by a customer?  If the former, then DEC could, conceivably, have
>the right to impose an "interdict" upon a person who committed a crime
>against them.  

[Flip mode on, the bear is tired]

Excuse me, but have you just recently returned from an off-planet
vacation?  I had thought that it was well know what Kevin did to so
annoy Digital.  Ray Kaplan can tell you about it, or you can just go
out and buy or borrow a copy of "Cyberpunk" and read it for yourself.
Ray sees Kevin and others like him as a potential source of
information, a sort of reference library of cracker and hacker
techniques.  Other see him as lower than whale spit and not to be
trusted.  Ray knows my opinions as we have discussed it over many a
pint of good Canadian ale.

The US Chapter of DECUS can form whatever policy they wish, as long as
it is applied evenly and consistanty.  Ray points out in this case it
isn't.  If Kevin could have sued Digital, he would have done so a long
time ago.  That is not the point that Ray was raising, it was related to
the issue of membership in the US Chapter of DECUS.

[Flip mode off, we now return you to your regular net.noise]

-- 
                Kurt Reisler (UNISIG Chair, DECUS US Chapter)
		  Captain, UNISIG International Luge Team
		     Only a guest at klr@umbc4.umbc.edu
	     Are creative spellings like a patentable life form?
Newsgroups: comp.org.decus
Subject: Re: "Decus NEVER gives refunds."
From: ivler@mdcbbs.com (J.M. Ivler    ivler@mdcbbs.com)
Date: 7 Oct 92 09:29:12 GMT
Organization: M&E (Division of EDS), Cypress CA
Nntp-Posting-User: griffin

In article <718444781.F00004@blkcat.UUCP>, 
Paul.Robinson@f417.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Paul Robinson) writes:
> It was a standard practice that when you went to a DECUS seminar, you  
> paid your money and that was that.  DECUS *never* gave refunds, not
> for anyone or for any reason.
>  
> Until one day someone decided to sign up under his own name, pay the  
> regular price to attend and see the conferences. 
>  
> For some reason, as soon as it was discovered who it was, the DECUS  
> organization decided to evict that particular person for prior conduct  
> which they disapproved of.
>  
> Since he had not committed any activity at that time which would legally  
> permit them to evict this person, DECUS did something they never did  
> before.
>  
> They cancelled someone's registration and refunded their money.
>  
> There is an old saying that "DECUS {Never} gives refunds."  
>  
> Unless your name is Kevin Mitnick.
> ----
> Paul Robinson -- TDARCOS@MCIMAIL.COM

Not bad, for an incomplete account of a non-event. RayK has been much better at 
providing history of this incident, although some find it a tad biased. I 
suggest that you get more facts prior to making blanket accusations. There were 
a number of issues that Mr. Mitnicks attempt to attend a DECUS symposia raised. 
Many are still being discussed within the DECUS leadership.

jmi
ivler@mdcbbs.com
[disclaimer: Sometimes people claim that I'm a "DECUS leader" other claim I'm 
not. Me, I don't care...]
Newsgroups: comp.org.decus
From: klr@umbc4.umbc.edu (Kurt Reisler)
Subject: Re: "The New DEXPO Seminar"
Organization: Hadron.com in exile
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 03:00:32 GMT

In article <1992Oct11.165838.23840@umbc3.umbc.edu> klr@umbc4.umbc.edu (Kurt Reisler) writes:
>In article <1992Oct10.005208.4083@spcvxb.spc.edu> killeen@spcvxb.spc.edu (Jeff Killeen) writes:

[Aside - I do not know what the hell happened to this posting, but what
follows is what it was supposed to be - Kurt]

In article <1992Oct10.005208.4083@spcvxb.spc.edu> killeen@spcvxb.spc.edu (Jeff Killeen) writes:

>Seminars are a vital part of DECUS fulfilling its mission.  Not only do they
>offer quality information exchange at the national level but because they are
>"portable" they offer symposia week type information at the local level.
>Competition of course has the advantage of everyone sharpening up their act.
>However Don don't expect the U.S. Chapter to fold up its tent and go home
>because someone else is the marketplace.  DECUS will compete by offering the
>best content and the best service when it comes to seminars.  We won't be
>competing by offering marginal left over seminars that are a bus ride away.
>The proof of value of this activity is while other DECUS products and services
>have been on a down trend Seminars continues to grow. 

I will not touch the implication that the DEXPO seminars are "mere
rejects" from the DECUS offerings.  Not my place to make such a call.
And, at some symposium locations, everything is a bus ride away.

However, there is something that DEXPO can do, to give them a
competative edge.  Historically DECUS (excuse me, the US Chapter of
DECUS) has consistantly refused to offer any honoraria to their seminar
speakers (of course, the presenters from DEC's Ed Services are DEC
Employees, to they are another case entirely).  The seminar speakers
for the other DECUS Chapters (Europe, Canada, GIA, etc.) do receive
honoraria, in some cases based on the number of attendees that the
seminar attracts.  While I do not know the arrangement that DEXPO has
made with their non-DEC presenters, I would be more than willing to bet
that there is an honorarium involved.  How long will the U.S. DECUS
Seminar offerings continue to be successful, if the best of the
"volunteer presentations" are drawn in to the DEXPO "web", by the
"evil" offering of compensation?

The U.S. DECUS Seminar program is one of the cash cows on which the
U.S.  Chapter survives.  Perhaps the competition from DEXPO may cause
the U.S.  Chapter leadership to look at the policy and procedures used
by its peer chapters elsewhere in the world, and learn from them?


-- 
                Kurt Reisler (UNISIG Chair, DECUS US Chapter)
		  Captain, UNISIG International Luge Team
		     Only a guest at klr@umbc4.umbc.edu
	     Are creative spellings like a patentable life form?
From: alan@nabeth.enet.dec.com (Alan Rollow - Alan's Home for Wayward Tumbleweeds.)
Subject: Re: vi crashes on NFS-filesystem with an unaligned access error - Need Help
Reply-To: alan@nabeth.enet.dec.com (Alan Rollow - Alan's Home for Wayward Tumbleweeds.)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 22:50:24 GMT


In article <1992Oct14.070150.10027@news.uni-stuttgart.de>, wnkretz@ikesg1.energietechnik.uni-stuttgart.de (Oliver Kretzschmar) writes:
>
>   Hey,
>
>   we have problems with vi editor on a NFS mounted filesystem.
>   The editor vi crashes, if we want to edit a file on the
>   mounted filesystem, with the following error message :
>
>    "testfile.txt" pid 259 (vi) was on an unaligned access, at pc 0x416f84
>
>   The filesystem was exported from a CRAY YMP.

This sounds a lot like something for which there is a patch.  Please
contact your local Customer Support Center or local office.  The
SPR number associated with the patch is ipo04592.

>       Oliver
>
>-- 
> NAME : O.Kretzschmar
>
--
Alan Rollow				alan@nabeth.cxo.dec.com

Newsgroups: comp.org.decus,comp.sys.dec.micro,comp.sys.dec,comp.unix.ultrix
From: wnkretz@ikesg1.energietechnik.uni-stuttgart.de (Oliver Kretzschmar)
Subject: vi crashes on NFS-filesystem with an unaligned access error - Need Help
Organization: IKE
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 07:01:50 GMT



   Hey,

   we have problems with vi editor on a NFS mounted filesystem.
   The editor vi crashes, if we want to edit a file on the
   mounted filesystem, with the following error message :

    "testfile.txt" pid 259 (vi) was on an unaligned access, at pc 0x416f84

   The filesystem was exported from a CRAY YMP. We use a DECstation 5000/120
   running Ultrix 4.2. Could somebody help me to solve the problem ?
   Please mail me your informations.

   Thanks for your efforts,

       Oliver

-- 
 NAME : O.Kretzschmar     Inst.IKE / University Stuttgart  /   @@ \   /   @@ \
 PHONE: +49 711 685 2130         Pfaffenwaldring 31        \______// \\______/
 FAX  : +49 711 685 2010         7000 Stuttgart 80                ||_||
 EMAIL: wnkretz@ikesg1.energietechnik.uni-stuttgart.de            \___/
From: pgravel@nap.amoco.com (Philip L. Gravel)
Newsgroups: comp.org.decus
Subject: Re: membership into DECUS
Date: 14 Oct 92 18:29:52 GMT
Reply-To: pgravel@nap.amoco.com (Philip L. Gravel)
Organization: Amoco Corporation

In article <1992Oct11.170705.24441@umbc3.umbc.edu>, klr@umbc4.umbc.edu (Kurt 
Reisler) writes:
> 
> In article <718808683.F00001@blkcat.UUCP> 
> Paul.Robinson@f417.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Paul Robinson) writes:
> 
> >I might be wrong on this point.  Did Mitnick break into one of Digital's  
> >sites or did he and his assistant break into a DEC computer which was
> >owned by a customer?  If the former, then DEC could, conceivably, have
> >the right to impose an "interdict" upon a person who committed a crime
> >against them.  
> 
> [Flip mode on, the bear is tired]
> 
> Excuse me, but have you just recently returned from an off-planet
> vacation?

I don't think so, but on the VAX Echomail Conference of Fidonet, Paul is not 
known for his sympathetic views on Digital, its products or services.  

Hi, Paul.... :-)

Phil

-----
Philip L. Gravel                      Internet: pgravel@nap.amoco.com
Amoco Corporation, Chicago, IL        Phone:    (312)856-3553
----------
These opinions aren't worth the paper they're written on and
certainly don't reflect those of my employer.
From: mehra@incubus.csee.usf.edu (Karan Mehra)
Newsgroups: comp.org.ieee
Subject: ieee-cs 1-800 number
Date: 8 Oct 92 17:03:43 GMT
Reply-To: mehra@incubus.csee.usf.edu (Karan Mehra)
Organization: University of South Florida, Department of Computer Science and Engineering

I would like to have the 1-800 number of IEEE Computer Society Office in
California.
Anyone having that number, will please forward it to me.  
Your help will be appreciated .

Thanks.

Karan
Newsgroups: comp.org.ieee
From: Bjorn.B.Larsen@delab.sintef.no (Bjorn B. Larsen)
Subject: Re: standards
Reply-To: bjorn.b.larsen@delab.sintef.no
Organization: delab
Date: 16 Oct 92 18:02:38

In article <1908@eagle.ukc.ac.uk> af4@ukc.ac.uk (A.French) writes:

>In article <3869@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> rotherme@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Pete Rothermel) writes:
>>The 1992 Publications Catalog has a section for standards 
>>on page 32. I was interested in the following items.
>>

If you have the 1992 Publications Catalogue, why don't you use the
addresses mentioned there?

>> [ ... ]

>Funny you should ask. I'm desperately seeking IEEE spec. 1149.1
> JTAG Boundary Scan Testability Specification Version 2

>I'm sure I've seen an IEEE FTP site somewhere but can't remeber where.
>But I might be imagining things.
>Can anyone out there help?

It har been repeated over and over again in this group that the IEEE
does *not* make standards available via ftp. Selling standards is a
way for them to get monney to fund their organization.

I got my copy of Std 1149.1 from the IEEE office in Bruxelles.  It may
also be ordered from the Computer Sosciety in California.

Don't try to be smart to save a few dollars/pound/kroner/mark. Go the
straight line from the beginning, that is for the benefit of all.

Bj{\o}rn

--
______________________________________________________________________
               s-mail:                 e-mail:
|   |   |      Bjorn B. Larsen         bjorn.b.larsen@delab.sintef.no
|__ |__ |      SINTEF DELAB
|  \|  \|      N-7034 TRONDHEIM        tel: +47-7-592682 / 592600
|__/|__/|_     NORWAY                  fax: +47-7-591039 / 594302
______________________________________________________________________
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