HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jheath@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Jim Heath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .357 Home Protection Gun Recommendations Sought
Date: 7 Apr 92 13:06:39 GMT
Organization: Center for Environmental and Regulatory Information Systems, Purdue University

#From article <52601@mimsy.umd.edu>, by bp816@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Stuart Krivis):
# 
# One thing no one has mentioned...  Don't use handloads for self-
# defense. They will make you out to be a monster in court if you
# ever actually have to shoot someone.
# 
# Point 2: Why use a handgun for home protection? Shotguns are more
# effective and safer. Shotguns scare the hell out of burglars!
# You are much less likely to shoot thru 3 houses and kill Uncle
# Fred's goldfish. Kids are less likely to get in trouble with a
# shotgun in the house. AND it takes less skill to use a scatter-
# gun. Get a 410ga or go whole hog and get a 20. Remember, all
# those farmers can't be wrong!

Hmmm, having no experience with rugrats, other than having
been one ;-{), it seems to me that they _might_ be more able to
manipulate and fire a shotgun than some handguns.  It is also
possible to buy one of the various pistol boxes that are
combination locked (buttons, etc.), so the handgun might be a
better choice. 

I tend to favor the scattergun myself, but we don't have kids.  I
am still looking for something for the shotgun that looks like it
would work as well as the pistol boxes I mentioned earlier.  I
would like to have the weapon(s) available, but not (easily)
stealable.  I lost one that way once and I think the chief of
detectives was madder at me than at the thief.
-- 
"Land of song, said the warrior bard,           Jim Heath
Though all the world betrays thee.
One sword, at least, thy rights shall guard, (The Minstrel Boy)
One faithful harp will praise thee."         (Thomas More)
From: crmeyer@voodoo.physics.ucsb.edu (Charles Meyer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Primer Removal
Date: 10 Apr 92 18:19:46 GMT

I have read in the reloading books that WD-40 is great for deactivating
primers. Just spray in and leave overnight. As always, use great care 
when de-priming it and wear goggles.


                      +-----------------------------------+
                      |         Charles R. Meyer          |
                      |                                   |
                      | Internet: crmeyer@voodoo.ucsb.edu |
                      | Bitnet:   crmeyer@voodoo          |
                      | HEPnet:   voodoo::crmeyer         |
                      +-----------------------------------+
From: cavasin@convex.com (Vince Cavasin)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Need High Standard Target Pistol info
Date: 17 Apr 92 01:50:59 GMT
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA

thanks for all the helpful responses.  I think I have all the info I need
(i.e. high standard is out of business and most of the guns are expensive
used :^)

-vince
From: smpod@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov (Stefan)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Reloading dies - .40 S&W/10mm
Date: 16 Apr 92 13:12:18 GMT
Organization: who knows

jheath@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Jim Heath) writes...
#Speaking of .40 S&W and 10mm, which set of dies should I buy in
#order to be able to load both of them?  My dealer says the .40
#S&W dies will load both while the 10mm dies won't.

That's what RCBS says.
From: tporczyk@novell.com (Tony Porczyk)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Can a woman handle .357 or .45?
Date: 10 Apr 92 23:21:01 GMT
Organization: Novell, Inc.


I just took my girlfriend to the range yesterday for the first time,
she took a satefy course and then shot (with some additional initial
instruction) a S&W 686 .357 magnum and a Glock 21 .45 ACP.  After the
first 10-15 she was able to put two magazines consistently all in the
black at 8 yards.  She is medium height, agerage weight.  I guess that
pretty much dispelled for me a myth that a woman cannot handle .357 or
.45 effectively.  In fact, she liked the .45 much more than either 9mm
or .40S&W, and she scored better with it.


Tony
From: gmk@falstaff.MAE.CWRU.EDU (Geoff Kotzar)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Advice on Polar Bear protection requested (no kidding!!!)
Date: 9 Apr 92 23:30:45 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University

In article <52835@mimsy.umd.edu> boardman%cancer.unm.edu@lynx.unm.edu (Bob Boardman) writes:
#In article <52722@mimsy.umd.edu>, thi@mips2.ma30.bull.com
#    (Saigon Smuggler) writes:
##
##I recalled a writer of a hunting magazine failed to stop a charging 
##grizzly with six 210-gr JHP .44 Magnum rounds at armlength distance.
##The six rounds all hit in a small group in the chest/heart area of the
##bear.  However, they all expanded and failed to penetrate past the heavy 
##chest muscles.
##
##He was saved by his buddy with a high-power rifle.  He went on to recommend
##heavy (over 300 grains) hard-cast bullets for .44 Mag.
#
#	A friend of mine guides bear hunters here in N.M., and he won't
#  allow anyone to shoot a bear with a .44 Mag pistol, because of several
#  similar bad experiences with even our much smaller black bears - the
#  standard 240 grain bullets, particularly the JHP's that everyone is so
#  fond of using, just do not penetrate reliably.  When you have dogs worth
#  $1000's of dollars under the tree, you don't want the bear coming out of
#  the tree and killing them.

Just for the record, the fellow cited in the original posting was Larry Kelly
of MagnaPort fame. The load he was using at the time was reported to be the
Remington 240 SJHP factory load. His buddy happened to be his guide who was
using a .375 H&H. The bear in question was a not spectacularly big grizzly
at 7 and 1/2 feet. Apparently, the critter had used the cabin they were
occupying before and just wanted to get in out of the rain. The encounter
happened during daylight hours, BTW. The bear just did not care that they
were there. Kelly dropped JHP's for hunting big things, and started using
the Federal FMJ's. You might want to check out the DBI book "Hunting for
Handgunners" by Kelly and Jones. A little short on real meat but entertaining
none the less.

geoff kotzar              gmk@falstaff.mae.cwru.edu
From: bbx!bbx.basis.com!russ@unmvax.cs.unm.edu (Russ Kepler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: bullet & gasoline truck
Date: 14 Apr 92 14:30:20 GMT
Organization: BASIS International, Albuquerque NM


In article <53129@mimsy.umd.edu> btree!hale@UCSD.EDU (Bob Hale) writes:
#A really good look at what happens when a car is shot up is in the
#Dillon videotape titled "Machine Gun Magic".  This is a tape that
#should be seen by anyone with any interest (positive or negative)
#in guns.

I'll second this.  I bought the tape once on a whim while ordering a
bunch of other stuff from Dillon (one of those "in for an inch, in for
a mile" things).  I watched the video once, took it to the office and
haven't seen it since.  Actually, I got to see it again, but it went
out to a reloader friend the next day (Bob? done yet?).

The tape is a real blast.  Get one as soon as you can spare the $$$ -
get a bunch of friends together if you can't afford one yourself.

-- 
Russ Kepler, Basis International Ltd. russ@bbx.basis.com  phone: 505-345-5232
From: smpod@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov (Stefan)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: SARCO AR-15 kits - long repost
Date: 14 Apr 92 20:17:07 GMT
Organization: who knows

berin@f14.EBay.Sun.COM (Eddie Berin/SE Sun Microsystems Federal) writes...
#	I recently bought one of those Nesard CAR-15 kits
#	as advertised in Shotgun News (tm).
# ...
#	Overall, I was satisfied with the quality of
#	the rifle;  it wasn't top-of-the-line
# 	(no chrome barrel/chamber, no forged site), but 
#	it was acceptable for my use.

Another data point.

A fellow shooter has put several Nesard AR-15 kits together and he now
stays away from Nesard.

He had one Nesard go automatic and another fire as the bolt closed.  Once
he used non-Nesard parts, the problems went away.
From: sybok@m4-035-13.MIT.EDU (The Terminator)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: polar bear
Date: 10 Apr 92 02:19:13 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

#      Not to mention the fact that anyone silly enough to try shooting a bear
#with a JHP deserves what they get (stomped on).  If you're going to shoot a 
#bear, nothing less then a good FMJ or solid will do.  I could see a 10mm
#200 gr. FMJ as a possibly useful round for this purpose, but certainly
#not the best choice.  If you want to keep the costs as low as possible get
#a good S&W 629, or a Ruger Super Redhawk, and load some 300gr bullets as
#fast as the manuals say.  You'll get excellent penetration, and hopefully
#put the bear down.  All this assuming you MUST use a handgun.  Nobody would use
#a handgun unless they had to...

Heck, just shoot the bear in the leg with a 0.22 LR, that mighty warhorse
of a round!
From: lrf@genrad.com (Larry R. Forest)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: maverick
Date: 13 Apr 92 12:46:39 GMT
Organization: GenRad, Inc.


   Does anyone have any experience/comments about Maverick's inparticular
the model 88 5 shot pump. I have been thinking of buying one for deer
hunting. I'm not looking for a pretty gun just a good field that i don't
have to be concerned about scratch's and dings. The one i want does have
rifle sights. I understand  Mavericks are made by Mossberg in Texas, any
more info would be helpful.


                      

Disclaimer: These are not the opinions of GENRAD.
*******************************************************************************
I'm just a technician fortunate enough to have an account.
*******************************************************************************

Thanks from Larry.
From: larrigan@eeserv.ee.umanitoba.ca (John Larrigan)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Advice on Polar Bear protection requested (no kidding!!!)
Date: 7 Apr 92 18:13:04 GMT
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada

spacelab@milton.u.washington.edu (Jessie Chang) writes:


#	If your going through, via ground, Canada, your going to have a problem 
#with the handgun but not with the Tanker...

This is a very important point.  If you are in Canada you cannot carry a 
a handgun period, concealed or in the open it does not matter.  So if your 
trip is to Churchill, MB then you will have to concider some rifle 
alternatives.  Which is probably a better idea anyways.  One final thing,
some time in the future I believe all semi-auto rifles with detachable box 
magazines will be limited to 5 rounds.  Which is annother thing to concider.

John L.
From: chan@seattleu.edu (Anthony K.B. Chan)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: I have a few questions on Browning 9mm
Date: 11 Apr 92 23:43:43 GMT
Organization: Seattle University, Seattle WA

What are the differences between the Browning 9mm Hi-power, 9mm Hi-power
Practical and the Hi-power mark II ? Which one of them is better ?

Thanks!

Anthony Chan
Seattle University
Computer Information & Services
Internet address : chan@sumax.seattleu.edu
From: tnev2@isuvax.iastate.edu
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .38 & .357 (Was Re: Is a .22 a humane weapon? (No.))
Date: 9 Apr 92 14:04:42 GMT
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa


##	The 38 special got its name from the diameter of it's case.  I seem 
##to recall that it measures .375" which is rounded up to .38.  At the type it
##was introduced, it was competing against a lot of .44-.45 caliber rounds
##so S+W wanted to make it sound as big al possible.
##
#	I believe that the ".38" designation dated back to earlier rimmed
#  .38 rounds which had a bullet the same diameter as the case, similar to
#  current .22 LR rounds.  When the design changed to use a bullet matching
#  the inner diameter of the case rather than the outer diameter, they kept
#  the .38 designation of the case, rather than changing it to .36.
#
#=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
#|**I _AM_ a member of a well-regulated militia - self-regulated, that is!!!!**|
#| Bob Boardman,Albuquerque,New Mexico - NRA LIFE, NMSSA, Zia Rifle&Pistol Club|
#|        internet:boardman@cancer.unm.edu    bitnet:BOARDMAN@UNMB             |
#=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

		No argument here.  Do you know what the older caliber name 
actually is? 

			-CJ
From: thi@mips2.ma30.bull.com (Saigon Smuggler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Advice on Polar Bear protection requested (no kidding!!!)
Date: 7 Apr 92 13:06:11 GMT
Organization: Bull HN Information Systems Inc.


In my opinion, the Springfield Armory M1A Bushrifle would be the ideal
weapon for defense against large thin-skinned predators.  The Bushrifle
is chambered in 7.62x51 NATO, which offers decent hitting power.  The
Bushrifle also offers compact size (18-inch barrel) and manageable weight
(with synthetic stock).  The 20-round semi-auto capacity can offers one
some peace of mind in the face of a hard-charging polar bear.

But with all these said, avoiding the predators is still a better solution.
Bear repellants are worth considering, in my opinion.

-tt
From: N5X@psuvm.psu.edu (James C Mankin)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .38 & .357 (Was Re: Is a .22 a humane weapon? (No.))
Date: 9 Apr 92 23:30:47 GMT
Organization: Penn State University

In article <52868@mimsy.umd.edu>, tnev2@isuvax.iastate.edu says:

###      The 38 special got its name from the diameter of it's case.  I seem
###to recall that it measures .375" which is rounded up to .38.  At the type it
###was introduced, it was competing against a lot of .44-.45 caliber rounds
###so S+W wanted to make it sound as big al possible.
###
##       I believe that the ".38" designation dated back to earlier rimmed
##  .38 rounds which had a bullet the same diameter as the case, similar to
##  current .22 LR rounds.  When the design changed to use a bullet matching
##  the inner diameter of the case rather than the outer diameter, they kept
##  the .38 designation of the case, rather than changing it to .36.

#                No argument here.  Do you know what the older caliber name
#actually is?
#                        -CJ


My grandfather had an old  U.S. Army model 1901 revolver that was of
pre- 38 special vintage. It was supposed to use something called the
.38 Long Colt I believe.    Jim
From: raymond@jupiter.ame.arizona.edu (Raymond Man)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Handgun grip and feel (was Re: Can a woman handle .357 or .45?)
Date: 13 Apr 92 20:42:20 GMT


First thing. Of course a woman can handle .357 or .45, and almost
regardless of size. That few females shoot is due to cultural bias.
The first time my sister shoot a handgun (.357), she was shooting
better than other first timer in the group, but she quited because
she thought the noise was too loud.

While proper grip is important for high accuracy, firing a more
powerful should not required a stronger grip. That a hand is
receiveing a beating when firing magnums implys that the hand is
absorbing the recoil instead of the inertia of the gun. Preventing
the whole gun from recoiling does not help the aim of the bullet
which has long since left the muzzle. A tired hand probably makes
poorer aim for the next round.

Raymond Man
From: pauly@netcom.com (Paul Yoshimune)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Shotguns vs Handguns (was: Gun Recommendations Sought)
Date: 7 Apr 92 13:04:33 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

I agree with everything said, but:

You stated that sometimes even a 12-gauge shotgun doesn't stop attackers; given
this, it would make sense that a 20-gauge would have even less of a chance...

As far as court problems: Actually, there has been many a case in which the
prosecutor said: "Yes, and he even made his own bullets!  Ones designed
specifically to expand and cause the maximum possible amount of damage (JHPs)!"
I'm not saying you're less likely to win; I don't even know what the result
of such claims are - just pointing out that this is a point often made...

-- 
-Paul Yoshimune [pauly@netcom.com]
From: jheath@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Jim Heath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Revolver Hammer Shrouds...
Date: 14 Apr 92 20:17:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: mimsy.53223
Organization: Center for Environmental and Regulatory Information Systems, Purdue University

#From article <53137@mimsy.umd.edu>, by forda@gtephx.UUCP (Andrew Ford @ AGCS, Phoenix, Arizona):
# In article <52860@mimsy.umd.edu>, rrubert@netman.intel.com writes:
# # 
# # #From Andrew Ford:
# # 
# # #I do not carry any weapon with a live round under the hammer no matter how
# # #many safety features are in place to prevent accidental discharge.  You can
# # #get away with relying on safety features for a long time, possibly even your
# # #entire lifetime, but your grandchild may be the one who is using the gun when
# # #the saftey feature fails: will that child be relying on the safety features or
# # #on good sense?  Safety features are *no* substitute for intelligent, cautious 
# # #handling of firearms.
# # 
# # 
# # 	I cannot help but wonder if this is a little too conservative.
# # 	Having examined the mechanism on my Ruger and Taurus revolvers
# # 	as well as my PPK/S I cannot see how a "safety failure" is any
# # 	more likely than a direct meteor strike. If this sort of thing is 
# # 	taken too far you have to start worrying about sponteanous
# # 	combustion in the other chambers of the cylinder.
# # 
# # 	I try to rely on rules 1 thru 3 for safety. Course I do get
# # 	a littel nervous about those cocked and locked folks.
# # 
# # 
# It *really* amazes me that people will "get worried about the cocked
# and locked folks" because they depend on safeties instead of not having
# a live round under the firing pin AND in the same breath carry on about
# how overly cautious it is to advise against relying on the "safety" of
# the hammer/firing-pin block.
#

Well, I haven't run across an instance of a transfer-bar "safety"
being "wiped" off in the holster which is what I would fear if I
were carrying a Colt .45 acp style pistol.  ('course to be fair,
I don't recall running across a case of one of the autos doing it
either ;-{)  ) 
-- 
"Land of song, said the warrior bard,           Jim Heath
Though all the world betrays thee.
One sword, at least, thy rights shall guard, (The Minstrel Boy)
One faithful harp will praise thee."         (Thomas More)
From: voodoo!tomm@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Tom Mackey)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: What's the mystique of a Ruger 10/22?
Date: 14 Apr 92 14:30:37 GMT
Organization: Boeing Graphics project, Bellevue WA



One of the rifles that I recently inherited from my dad is a Ruger 10/22
semi-auto carbine.  I really didn't think too much about it but I've been
watching this newsgroup for the last several months and have seen quite a
few references to the Ruger 10/22 which puzzle me.  So please bear with me
as I ask some questions.

Several postings mention the 10/22 in the context of semi and/or full auto
weapons, implying (perhaps?) that some variation of this weapon is indeed
full auto and hence on some "banned" list.  I'm being quite honest when I
say that I don't understand the connection.  BTW, I have no interest in
owning or operating any full-auto weapon; I just want to know how the 10/22
fits into the discussion.

Other postings mentioned that the 10/22 can be worked over so as to be much
more accurate.  What's the deal here?  I ask because my dad had 2 semi-auto
.22 cal. rifles:  the Ruger 10/22 carbine and a Browning.  The Browning
is much nicer looking, IMHO, and I'll probably keep it for my daughters,
but I wonder what its accuracy potential will be.  My personal .22 rifle
(a Winchester Model 250 lever action, paid for by skipping lunch my entire
year of 7th grade!) was never as accurate as I would have liked.  If the
10/22 can beat it, I'll hang on to it for sure.

And another posting mentioned a price of $200 or so for the 10/22, yet one
reference book I have lists its value used as around $100.  Again, am I
missing something here?  Most firearms seem to be holding their value
better than this.

-- 
Tom Mackey       (206) 865-6575        tomm@voodoo.boeing.com
Boeing Computer Services         ....uunet!bcstec!voodoo!tomm
M/S 7K-20,     P.O. Box 24346,     Seattle, WA     98124-0346
                    -Save Teddy Bear Cove-
From: bourman@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Bob Bourman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: 9mm Clip prices?
Date: 6 Apr 92 12:57:45 GMT
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server




	Information on 9mm clips:


	I have noticed a great difference in 9mm clips. The original
	brand ie; Taurus & S&W run from $18 to $24 each. Some advertized
	specials in Shot Gun News sells (not brand name)for ~$12 with
	pouch.

	What's up ? Are these non-brand clips as good? Has anyone had
	experience with off the wall clips?

	Tom Forrest Inc. in Lakeside, Ca. sells the Taurus 9mm 16 round
	clips (2) with pouch for $24.95 and the S&W M39 8 round clips (2)
	with pouch for $23.95.

	Thanks 

	BOBB
From: spf@hoqaa.att.com (Steven P Frysinger)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Buying an M1 (was RE: US NAVY GETS RID OF M9'S)
Date: 13 Apr 92 17:34:08 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories

#From article <53095@mimsy.umd.edu>, by emba-news.uvm.edu!bashiti@kira.UVM.EDU (Abbas J Bashiti):
}      As to the M1's, at this point the DCM is still selling M1's.  I 
} believe they may also still be taking orders, but I am still waiting on
} mine.  Shipment is now upto 6 months after payment.  Come oct '92 I 
} believe the program is in deep doodoo.  I haven't heard what the effect
} on sales of M1's will be due to the new funding requirements but i'm sure
} that the price will climb greatly if they are still sold at all.  All this
} being the case, it may be best to get an order in now.  No point in waiting
} to see what happens until its too late...

Well, you got MY attention.  I've occassionally thought about buying an
M1 (I'm not sure why, but, well, you know...).  Anyway, what is the "best"
way to do this, what are the requirements, what's the cost, phone numbers, &c?  

Steve Frysinger
From: dingbat@cix.clink.co.uk (Codesmiths)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Enfield: Which One?
Date: 10 Apr 92 23:21:04 GMT


Senderta,agnum@mimsy.umd.edu

# The #4 MkI(I) is a very nice gun.  They're accurate and reliable.

# If you pick and choose you'll get one with a one CLICK adjustible
# [rear sight] for elevation.

Go for a No. 4, in preference to a No. 3. There is little in it, but
the sights *are* better.

If you want more, a few gunsmiths make additional sights for them.
Parker do a rear aperture sight, with click adjust for both elevation
& wind. They also make a tube foresight for it. Each costs around 30
UK pounds.

    Alfred J. Parker
    Armoury Works
    348 Moseley Road
    Birmingham
    England
    B12  9AZ
    021 440 1480

Andy Dingley    dingbat@cix.compulink.co.uk    +44 91 230 1695