HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: thomas@eagles.uucp (Thomas Hoffman)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: The Serpent
Date: 6 Oct 92 18:13:28 GMT
Organization: Eagles Reaches Church of Asatru - Elder Hof

> 
> 	Actually, there _is_ a case for a common origin for these
> dragon stories. More examples:
> 
> Zeus kills Typhon
> Apollo kills Python
> Perseus kills Medusa (?)
> Thor kills Midgard
> Indra kills Vrtra
> 
> 	(Oh, boy! All these gods and heroes just _love_ to kill snakes.)
> 
> 	The hypothesis I like best is that all these stories are
> ultimately derivatives of some ancestral Indo-European myth of a
> warrior-god fighting and killing an evil snake-monster. This explains
> the Greek, Aryan, and Germanic versions, and probably the original of
 
you know the scary part is that all legends are supposed to be based on some
sort of fact. so what happened to all the big snakes or lizards?

did all these manly god types kill them off?:) are there any female heroes
that killed the serpent archetype? what about the psychological analogy for the
serpent as a phallus?
so many questions, and only one multiverse to answer them in.
(any and all veiws expressed here are my own. they are not to be misconstrued
as being those of the asatru religion, eagles reaches, or the ring of troth.
this is added for the benifit of the wolfes of the field.)
there you go guys ponder or flame, i'm wearing my asbestsos(SP) viking gear.

well met and wassail
Thomas of House Hoffman
                                    /\
                                   / l\
                                  /  l \
                                     l
                                  l  l  l
                                  l  l  l
                                * l\ l  l *
                                  l \l  l
                                  l  l\ l
                                  l  l \l
                                  l  l  l
                                  l     l
People are people........ TFF
From: wce@hogbbs.scol.pa.us (Bill Eichman)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Witches and death
Date: 14 Oct 92 21:01:59 GMT
Organization: The Heart of Gold BBS, Lemont PA

pharvey@mipos3.intel.com (Paul Harvey) writes:

> being. When the student is ready the teacher will appear. Don't be so quick
> to discount your own ability to teach, and to learn. Do the right thing is
> a personal decision, it is the individual who must judge. Absorb what you
> can of the world and reflect it into the reality of yourself. What did
> Arjuna or Yudhi or even Krishna do that we can not do?

Ahh, Paul, you make it sound so easy....

And it is easy, once you have the right experiences and understanding.

But if someone comes up to you and says "I'm dying", afteer you've told 
them to live authentically, to do the right thing, what then?

If your child says, "Dad, what happens to people when they die?", what 
then?

"Do the right thing" is an ideal, and it's a good ideal. But you have to 
build a bridge between the ideal and the real, before the ideal can be 
used by we ordinary people.

What is the right thing to do, with regards to death?

> Hmm, go with the flow is a very different thing. That can get you in trouble.
> Go with the flow is an authentic individual leading an inauthentic life.

Who decides? Who decides that 'go with the flow' is inauthentic, while 
'do the right thing' is real?

These are all just words and myths, with which we program ourselves.

But how we act when someone we love dies-- to me, that seems more 
universal, and more real.

Later, Bill
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: holzman@fnalno.fnal.gov
Subject: Re: Women and Men Witches
Organization: Fermi National Accelerator Lab
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 19:33:25 GMT
X-Posted-From: fnalno.fnal.gov
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1992Oct14.222403.43855@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>, 
kumagic@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (Stephen R. Figgins) writes:
> Many witches talk about how men in the craft are less
> sexist, less prone to domestic violence, less abusive.  

How many Wiccan men are prone to domestic violence?  Abusive?  Compared to 
non-Wiccan men?  Non-pagan men?

> I have yet to see much proof of that.  

What have you seen?

> I would say women in the craft are generally
> stronger willed, and more progressive.  

This is not mutually exclusive with less sexist men.

> Men in the craft, will often
> give more lip service to equality because of this. 

Is it not possible that some of both goes on?  Is this how you describe
yourself?
 
> Then again, I think men are mostly scum.  

Such a low self-opinion you have, Stephen.

...

And what about me?  [I hear people ask.]

I believe in the full equality of men and women, of the Lord and Lady.  I 
believe that men and women are both capable of greatness and scumminess.  I 
would not work with someone who cannot or does not regard me as a full equal.

Dan
Xref: sparky alt.pagan:11131 alt.bacchus:154
From: pharvey@mipos3.intel.com (Paul Harvey)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,alt.bacchus
Subject: Re: Myer-Briggs <was: Re: a nice experience last night>
Date: 14 Oct 92 22:35:17 GMT
	<Bvxozu.B1r@access.digex.com> <1beo68INNjdn@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>
Organization: In Vino Veritas

In article <1beo68INNjdn@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> 
an725@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Paul L. Fortman, Jr.) writes:
>I am also an INFP.   INFPs account for approximately 2% of the population.
>Kiersey and Bates calls us the Apolloian temperament--Apollo was sent by Zeus
>to give spirit to the humans (or something like that).  What I find rather 
>interesting is that my iNtuition is at maximun (i.e., zero sensing).  

Hmm, Apollo was the god of action, what is sometimes called the warrior, not
to be confused with war. Apollo is your boss, or Apollo is what drives you
to accomplish something, to BE something. Apollo is just say no, Apollo is
Western culture, for the most part, with the exception of a few Bacchus
holdouts. Bacchus is god of non-stop debauchery and such revelling. Bacchus
is your lover, asking you to just put the books down for awhile. Apollo says
you are never finishing until you are a billionaire like Perot, Bacchus says
the party's not over till everything is gone and it's time to go home or time
to earn the means for the next big blow-out. We all know Apollo, but few of
us really know Bacchus, we outgrow that phase. Too bad really. The modern
Bacchus is called un-employable artist or non-team player or reckless or
poor excuse for a parent, etc.
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: st923058@pip.cc.brandeis.edu (Rosaleen Dhu)
Subject: drugs
Reply-To: st923058@pip.cc.brandeis.edu
Organization: Brandeis University
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 20:44:29 GMT

Uh, don, you said something about XTC being an argument in favour of the
existence of the being some people call God. I beg to differ. Right now my
ex-boyfriend, who was still one of my closest friends before he started
playing with XTC, spends about 17 hours a day locked in his room, sleeping
or spacing out, and will not talk to anyone, hasn't gone to work in
months, dropped out of school, etc. Asked him why, he sez "'Cause of XTC".
This sure as hell don't seem like a good thing. I'm with you on the Peanuts
thing, though. "It always rains on our generation."
		Feeling very very powerless and just a tad guilty,
					Rosaleen Dhu
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: djd0873@ritvax.isc.rit.edu (p r u n e)
Subject: Re: Myer-Briggs <was: Re: a nice experience last night>
Reply-To: djd0873@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 19:37:39 GMT

>So, Nancy and I are INFP, are there any others.  It would be interesting to
>find out how many INFPs are male and how many are female.

	Well, I'm a male INFP and I even own the Keirsey/Bates book, but I
haven't read the whole thing.  I liked the "apollonian" concept.  Guess I'll
have to pick it up again.


p r u n e        RIT        Roch. NY, home of Kodak, Jolt Cola, and many other
                            artificial chemical substances.
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: lib1p@elroy.uh.edu (Tammy Stark Blandino)
Subject: Healing energies to Jessica
Summary: Hope you get well soon!
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 22:50:00 GMT

In article <1b78cvINN7ks@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, jmm25@po.CWRU.Edu (Jessica M. Mcgeary) writes...
> 
>Ayers Rock. The big mother of a rock in the center of Australia is called
>Ayers Rock.
> 
>Thassall for now- I'se sick...
                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^
>-- 
>Jessica McGeary
>jmm25@po.cwru.edu
>Case Western Reserve University
>Remember! Arguments should be FUN!

Sorry to hear that Jessica.  I will be sure to send some that
good ole time healing stuff your way.8-)
May you get better soon.

Tammy
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,alt.bacchus
From: markg@county.lmt.mn.org (Mark Gilbert)
Subject: Re: Myer-Briggs <was: Re: a nice experience last night>
Organization: LaserMaster R&D, Minneapolis, MN  USA
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 16:10:26 GMT

In article <Bw4uqu.K5F@inews.Intel.COM> pharvey@mipos3.intel.com (Paul Harvey) writes:

>In article <1beo68INNjdn@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> 
>an725@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Paul L. Fortman, Jr.) writes:
>>I am also an INFP.   INFPs account for approximately 2% of the population.
>>Kiersey and Bates calls us the Apolloian temperament--Apollo was sent by Zeus
>>to give spirit to the humans (or something like that).  What I find rather 
>>interesting is that my iNtuition is at maximun (i.e., zero sensing).  

I guess I missed something.  What is an INFP?

Mark Gilbert
From: rowanf@crc.ricoh.com (Rowan Fairgrove)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Myer-Briggs <was: Re: a nice experience last night>
Date: 13 Oct 92 22:19:09 GMT
Reply-To: rowanf@crc.ricoh.com (Rowan Fairgrove)
Organization: RICOH California Research Center

It may be gauche to ask, but my site *finally* gets
alt.pagan and this was the first thing I saw.  There
was an interesting article in _Web of Wyrd_ recently
regarding someone in Oz who did a thesis on 
personality types by religion and found Christian
priests and Pagans in the same range and Xtian 
congregations very different.  Is this what started
this discussion?

Rowan Fairgrove
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,sci.electronics
From: feg@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (forrest.e.gehrke)
Subject: Re: Thunderstorms   (was: Re: Night and Winter)
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 19:19:45 GMT

In article <Bvpvw4.4In@zoo.toronto.edu> henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes:
>
>Don't expect to keep it all out.  It's still sensible to unplug things
>if you're seriously worried.  If 0.001% of a bolt gets through, your
>equipment is still in big trouble.
>-- 
Several years ago I took a hit on my aluminum antenna tower (which had
heavy cable going from each leg through the concrete base and connected
to ground rods at the base of the hole (all prepared prior to pouring
the concrete).  This took care of the major current.

However, some came into the radio room via the coax cables.  All 
my equipment that was NOT on the double pole single throw main power
switch had one of the primary leads of their power transformers
zapped.  The current had found ground through the remaining
connection to the AC power mains.  These leads are likely to be quite
small wire and it doesn't take a lot of current to fuse them.

BTW there have been instances of concrete bases of towers blasted
apart because the precaution I took was not done.

Forrest Gehrke feg@dodger.att.com  k2bt
From: cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Women and Men Witches
Date: 16 Oct 92 02:22:36 GMT
Organization: University of California, Irvine

In article <92289.092042J5J@psuvm.psu.edu> John A. Johnson <J5J@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>In article <1992Oct14.222403.43855@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>,
>kumagic@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (Stephen R. Figgins) says:
>>
>>
>>Then again, I think men are mostly scum.  I think they can recover
>>from scumminess, but like alcoholics, I think we need to fess up to
>>being scum before we can really start down the road to recovery.

I've been passing this thread since I anticipated a huge deluge of
conflicting opinions and well-known authors, but this is a bit strong.

Men have been forced to deny themselves in different ways than women,
but still forced to deny themselves.  I recall a quote by someone named
(maybe) Herb Goldberg that "It is very much in fashion to ask men to
feel.  This is, however, on a par with tauntiung a crippled man to run."

You're not scum.  You are forced to deny your own feeling and emotions
and tastes from the word go -- just as women are in a different and
more directly damaging way.  The problem is that you are forced to do
this by a predominantly male society.  This doesn't mean that you all
exercise choice in the matter, though. 

Men aren't scum -- they just have to find out how to be themselves.

Blessings,
Janis
From: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Ceremony Suggestions?
Date: 12 Oct 92 19:13:58 GMT
Reply-To: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Organization: COMANDOS Project, Glesga Yoonie

cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) wrote:
> [North African female circumcision] involves more than just ("just"
> indeed) removal of the clitoris.  Also, the labia majora are sliced
> off, and the labia minora are sewn together with a matchstick stuck
> between them so the woman can pee and bleed -- if she's lucky.

What you're describing here is "infibulation".  There are a lot of cultures
that do only the milder forms of female circumcision, down to a small nick
in the clitoris.  (This is not to say that any of them are a good idea, but
it doesn't help to make it look like these differences don't exist).

I've read one woman from East Africa pointing out that compared to what the
world economic system is doing to millions of African women - starving them
to death - infibulation is peanuts, and the Western feminist obsession with
this practice is just sick hypocrisy.

-- 
--  Jack Campin    room G092, Computing Science Department, Glasgow University,
17 Lilybank Gardens, Glasgow G12 8RZ, Scotland   TEL: 041 339 8855 x6854 (work)
INTERNET: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk or via nsfnet-relay.ac.uk    FAX: 041 330 4913
BANG!net: via mcsun and uknet     BITNET: via UKACRL    UUCP: jack@glasgow.uucp
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,alt.sex,alt.sex.bondage
From: tperreau@zia.aoc.nrao.edu (The Mad Scot)
Subject: Re: Halloween
Organization: National Radio Astronomy Observatory, Socorro NM
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 03:58:53 GMT

In article <1992Oct13.030332.20750@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> lrabe@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Lee A Rabe) writes:
>Help!
>
>I've been invited to a Halloween party, and have found out that it is to be
>a costume party.
>
>I need suggestions for a costume.  Help!
>
>Thanks,
>
>TopCat

Go as a Pict.  Blue grease paint put on your body in swirls and
animal patterns and nothing else :)

Or, go as a Scot; wear your kilt _properly_ with a blue silk
ribbon (for first prize)...


-- 
================================================================================
Tony Perreault, High Tech Babysitter & Nanny	tperreau@zia.aoc.nrao.edu
Array Operations, Very Large Array	      All opinions expressed are my
Socorro, NM				        own and not those of NRAO
From: law10@po.CWRU.Edu (Lorrie A. Wood)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Say, what's up with that?
Date: 12 Oct 92 00:04:22 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc12.ins.cwru.edu


	Why is it that a disproportionate number of people on this group 
(including myself 8-) ) are Librans?  Some savvy astrological person must have
a reason.  Does being a Libra make you a better pagan (like that whole hazel
eyes thing) (did I mention my eyes were also hazel?) or what?
	(more superfluous parenthetical stuff)


BB, and Read You Later . . .

-- 
"All statements are true in some sense, false in some sense, meaningless in
some sense, true and false in some sense, true and meaningless in some sense,
false and meaningless in some sense, and true and false and meaningless in
some sense." -- _Principia_Discordia_ -- the Book of the Church of Eris (Chaos)
From: gil@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au (Gil Hardwick)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Ceremony Suggestions?
Date: 16 Oct 92 01:09:25 GMT
Organization: STAFF STRATEGIES - Anthropologists & Training Agents


In article <1992Oct15.032432.11411@waikato.ac.nz> simcock@waikato.ac.nz writes:

 >                 While I have no intention of accusing anyone of hypocrisy
 > I just wanted to remind you that a largeish number of those in this conference
 > live in countries where sticking shit loads of Silicon into women is considered
 > sort of neat. I also find neck stretching, facial reshaping and similar 
 > pasttimes distastful, I don't even like leg shaving alot.

I only partly apologise for invoking this particular direction the
thread has taken, but some cleansing of hypocrisy IS in order. What I
call rubbing their stupid mindless noses in it . . .

To that end, does anyone know also how the Chinese "lotus feet" were
formed on girls from the age of about six or seven? How much pus and
gangrene were scraped away from the arch of the foot over so many
months to create this *thing* of elegance and beauty?

Or perhaps about the 9 *MILLION* or more women burned at the stake as
witches during the Mediaeval Period?

Janis, my sweet, I do admire your choice of words: "Get fucked!"

GET FUCKED!!!!!   GET FUCKED!!!!!   GET FUCKED!!!!!

FUCKING BARBARIC ARSEHOLES

Fuck the lot of you . . .

--
Gil Hardwick                                      gil@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au
Independent Consulting Ethnologist                            3:690/660.6
PERTH, Western Australia                                 (+61 9) 399 2401
   * * Sustainable Community Development & Environmental Education * *
From: law10@po.CWRU.Edu (Lorrie A. Wood)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Samhain
Date: 15 Oct 1992 15:52:08 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc5.ins.cwru.edu


	Well, I'm going trick-or-treating in full fencing gear. In my father's
suburb -- upper-middle-class WASPies will get a treat of an 18-year-old 
bounding down the street -armed-.  
	But then again, it's only a fencing foil.

BB, and Read YOu Later . . .
-- 
"All statements are true in some sense, false in some sense, meaningless in
some sense, true and false in some sense, true and meaningless in some sense,
false and meaningless in some sense, and true and false and meaningless in
some sense." -- _Principia_Discordia_ -- the Book of the Church of Eris (Chaos)
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Ritual Help For a Sick Friend
Date: 16 Oct 92 23:09:07 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA

angelai@wam.umd.edu (Angela I.) writes:
: >>
: >Jim, have you tried anything like "laying on of hands?"  
: >I have used this technique several times with success.  However, I have not
: >worked with anyone suffering the intense pain that your friend is enduring.
: >
: Actually, it is technically illegal to do "laying on of hands" or
: even using mental imagery techniques on an individual in your presence
: unless you are licenced to do so.  If you want to be legally correct
: about it, you could do the visualization techniques from the next room,
: and even lay your hands on the door or the adjacent floor or wall to send
: the energy that way.  However, it's perfectly legal to send them that
: same energy in an "indirect" form, such as sitting and talking to the
: person, and any "friendly" (as opposed to "psychic-type") physical contact.

Since when? I know of no jurisdiction, at least in the US, where this is
illegal. Christian faith healers do it all the time.  It may be illegal
in some places to require a fee from the person for such an action.

There are some municipalities that prohibit palm readers or other "fortune
tellers", at least - ones who are in the business. I know of no places where
it is illegal to tell fortunes.

Bill
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: fannin@news.cis.ohio-state.edu (elizabeth a fannin)
Subject: women warriors
Organization: The Ohio State University Department of Computer and Information Science
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 19:40:34 GMT

why look east?  my friend walking song (who is shawnee) tells me that the
shawnee and the cherokee had women's war groups as well as men's war groups.
in fact one of the stories among the shawnee is that once a group of soldiers
from a white fort came out of the fort and camped a little too close to the
shawnee's home.  this made them nervous:  they didn't want the soldiers that
close, but weren't comfortable with starting an outright war either.  so, the
decision was made the the women's war society would attack the soldiers.  they
did, and *beat hell out of them,* from all accounts (i think they chose to use
mostly dull weapons).  the soldiers ran like wings would be in their way, back
to the fort.  and, sin
From: gil@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au (Gil Hardwick)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: New Janis Name
Distribution: world
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 92 07:06:18 GMT
Organization: STAFF STRATEGIES - Anthropologists & Training Agents


In article <BvtIux.LFz@news.cso.uiuc.edu> ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu writes:

 > One of the easiest things to point at is that the Bright Goddess is seen as
 > nurturing and earthy, which are yin traits in Taoism.  One the other hand, the
 > Dark Goddess is powerful--even overpowering--which is more yang.  However, in
 > Wicca, *both* the Dark Goddess and the Bright Goddess are feminine.  It is
 > the Twin Gods (who also are Dark and Bright) who are the masculine principle.

Yes, this is quite correct. The Taoist tradition is wholly consistent with
your explanation of the Wicca in this respect.

The two parts of *qi* (spiritual energy) are *yin* and *yang* as you
describe them forming the feminine principle, while *li* (logic and
reason, also texture and pattern) forms the masculine.

The traditional medical practice of *liqi* based on these principles
removes obstructions and regulates the flow of vital energy. The
release from suffering using *liqi* is sudden and dramatic, within a
single week following months and months of illness. Westerners usually
do not believe it to begin with, and then quickly become converts.

 > There certainly are Witches who connect the Lady and Lord to yin and yang, but
 > I don't work primarily with a Lady/Lord system.  I believe that the Lady/Lord
 > system does derive from Eastern thinking, via Jung, Blavatsky, Crowley, etc.

If this is so, it has been very badly misunderstood and power deriving
from this practice would be difficult to use. It is out of balance,
and the practitioner would need great concentration to control it.

Why go to so much trouble, and use up so much energy? The *liqi* is
so sublime it can be turned with a feather touch, and applied precisely
to whatever point it is required to influence.

Believe it.

Gil

--
Gil Hardwick                                      gil@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au
Independent Consulting Ethnologist                            3:690/660.6
PERTH, Western Australia                                 (+61 9) 399 2401
   * * Sustainable Community Development & Environmental Education * *
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: salem@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Bruce Salem)
Subject: Re: Halloween
Organization: Stanford Univ. Earth Sciences
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 04:46:16 GMT

	Really, one has to constrain oneself from getting on a roll.
	So, the best kind of puns are punintended.

Bruce Salem