HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: George Paap <george_paap@email.sps.mot.com>
Subject: Re: 'Re' Warning - apologia et regrata
X-Xxdate: Thu, 7 Jan 93 18:17:04 GMT
Organization: Motorola RISC
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d16
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 00:29:57 GMT

In article <kwi.54@stud.hsn.no> KLAUS WILLIAM WIK, kwi@stud.hsn.no writes:
>but if kiled being oobe just makes the 'chord' snap, then who knows how
many
>sudden 'nocause' heartattacs and even cradledeaths are from
oobe-accidents?

My opinions are certainly colored by my view of spirituality,
reality, etc. but to me it seems impossible that ones 
physical existence could end, against ones will, by the
the act of another, or an accident, existing only in your
conciousness (or unconciousness).  I dont think it is possible to "Break"
that connection against your will, its
part of you.  Severe psycological trama, probably, some
physical effects, possible, death against your will,
not in my opinion.

George Paap

PS I have only had one oobe and it was great.
I am my beliefs.
(which almost certainly are not those of my employer)
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
From: brownt@seq.uncwil.edu (brown todd francis)
Subject: Re: Paralysis and Eyes
Organization: Univ. of North Carolina @ Wilmington
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 19:29:15 GMT

gst@gnosys.svle.ma.us (Gary S. Trujillo) writes:

>In <93010.173633SRK106@psuvm.psu.edu> Senthil Ramas Kumar
>	<SRK106@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:

>> Is it true that the muscles that govern the motion of the eye are the last
>> to get paralysed? I find it interessting, because, when I enter into the
>> paralysis state, I can very easily still move my eye lids, and still
>> maintain the paralysis in the rest of my body.

>Stephen LaBerge, who wrote the books on lucid dreaming, says that he and
>other lucid dreamers are able to move their eyes under voluntary control
>to signal the onset of a lucid dream, for the benefit of people in their
>sleep laboratory conducting research.  There's some discussion of the
>subject in his book _Lucid Dreaming_.  I think that REM (rapid eye-move-
>ment) sleep is also an indication of the same set of physiological and
>neurological facts.  The body as a whole is paralysed, except for the
>normal "tossing and turning" kinds of movements, but the eyes are not.

>Perhaps someone with more knowledge on the subject could take things
>further.

>Gary
>--
>    Gary S. Trujillo                            gst@gnosys.svle.ma.us
>Somerville, Massachusetts              {wjh12,bu.edu,spdcc,ima,cdp}!gnosys!gst


You are correct, Gary.  The paralysis effect during REM is even more
pronounced than you realize.  I have seen films in which it is very
evident from REM and NO MOVEMENT that the subject is dreaming.  

I believe that their is some type of motor response inhibitor to the
large muscles that is released during REM for obvious survival
reasons.  You don't want to act out your dream movements and injure
yourself or your sleeping partner.

There is a very interested movie based on this premise.  It is worth
renting or catching on the late show:

DREAM LOVER (1986)
Kristy McNichol, Ben Masters

After stabbing an intruder, a young woman becomes involved
in dream research experiments designed to reveal the reason
behind her act of violence.
From: org4688@zeus.tamu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
Subject: Projection... How to do it?
Date: 6 Jan 93 08:54:00 GMT
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
NNTP-Posting-Host: zeus.tamu.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

I am looking for information on how to meaningfully astrally project.
Do you know where I can get a sort of handbook or something on how to
have an OOB?  Without having to be sick from a disease (a relative of mine
OOB'd while down with Tetanus) that is.

Do you really believe that possesion of another can happen while that other
is out travelling.?  I think so but how do you identify vacant bodies from
dead or occupied ones?  And once inside can you make that your new home.
Kinda scary if you ask me.

My relative who had this experience said that a study was made to determine
the exact time a person died (that is the study gathered data on a persons
brain patterns , heart patterns etc... while she/he was in the process of
dying.).  However, in the process they found that when a person died the 
person at the time of death lost about 1/4 th of a pound of mass.  Whether
it is true or not is unknown to me but I tend to believe him he has no 
reason to lie to me, or his wife or the rest of his family.  So if so
do you think that if projectors are studied do you think that they will
(while not dying) show a loss of mass in the same way.?

Thanks in advance...
:
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
From: gen5006@husky1.stmarys.ca (Bill McKinnon)
Subject: OBE - experience & NEWS Screwed up
Organization: St. Mary's University, Halifax, N.S., Canada
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 21:51:42 GMT

Sorry bout this folks, but the news is screwed up on this end.  I can get this
far but it won't let me read anything.  So as for the experience i'd said i'd
post if anyone wants it they'll have to leave me e-mail (ugh!).  Anyway
i've got to run.  TTFN.

-- 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Bill Mckinnon             |  Quoted from an interview with Hurling Footmig,
 Halifax, Nova Scotia      |  17th acting editor of the Guide:
 Canada. (902) 429-6927    |  'Why stop now, just when I'm hating it?'
 gen5006@husky1.stmarys.ca |   Marvin the Paraniod Andriod.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
From: preiser@cancer.unm.edu (Doug Preiser)
Subject: Re: Personal experience
Date: Fri, 08 Jan 93 19:31:03 GMT
Organization: UNM Cancer Center
Distribution: inet
Reply-To: preiser@cancer.unm.edu

In article <C0I3py.5xv@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu>, rservant@zeno01.math.UWaterloo.ca (Ron Servant) writes:
>
>When I was about 3 years old I remember floating out of my body 
>and being able to look down into the room I was sleeping in.
>I stayed up near the ceiling for I don't know how long but it was quite
>exilerating.  I know what your saying 'if he was only 3 how could he remember this?'
>
>
>Well I really don't know, but it is the most vivid memory I have of 
>my childhood.  What I am wondering is whether anyonbe else has had
>this kind of experience and tell me more about it.
>
>I would like to acheive this state again if possible, except this time
>when I have control of what I am doing.
>
>
I had one of those when I was about 9.  I wanted to try flying through the
window, but was afraid I'd break it.

   Internet: preiser@cancer.unm.edu
   Bitnet:   preiser@unmb
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
From: brownt@seq.uncwil.edu (brown todd francis)
Subject: Re: OOBEs & dreams about dead people
Organization: Univ. of North Carolina @ Wilmington
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 18:38:31 GMT

spinaa@rpi.edu (Matt Garretson) writes:

>The second time, I wasn't as scared, but the episode didn't last long enough
>for me to apply the techniques discussed here on the net.

>Last night, I consciously tried the "roll off the bed" technique, and I'll
                                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>be damned if it didn't work! I really felt like I was flying and moving all
>over the place. The only problem was that I could hardly see anything. I
>could sort of see outlines of things, but I couldn't really tell where I
>was. Some people here have talked about having heightened senses, but mine
>were just about useless. I think I saw my arms and legs, but things faded
>away after that. But this was definitly the most concrete experience of
>the three that I've had.


Hello Matt!

Could you please explain in detail what you mean by the "roll of the
bed" technque?  Were you trying to induce a lucid dream or an OBE?

Thanks.

Michael Shea
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 17:21:55 EST
From: <JLS19@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
Subject: Re: Mass o' Astral Body
cis.ohio-state.edu!news.sei.cmu.edu!drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu!cantaloupe.srv.cs.cm
u.edu!das-news.harvard.edu!spdcc!gnosys!gst
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
Subject: Re: Mass o' Astral Body
From: Steve Itzenhuiser <cs.uwp.edu!itzenhui>
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 17:02:45 GMT

Original-Sender: Steve Itzenhuiser <cs.uwp.edu!itzenhui>

On 6 Jan 1993 OOBE-Relay@gnosys.svle.ma.us wrote:

> Original Sender: org4688@zeus.tamu.edu (GARCIA, OSCAR RENE)
>
> Ah, but how to get an astral body to the lab for weighing.  Which makes me
> wonder, for those of you do OOB how do you decide where to go?  Suppose I
> wanted to say hello to a friend in Colorodo (well at least do an Astral fly
> by) do you visit places and can you see the real world and hear conversations
> etc...
> :
>

>It seems to me that the more comfortable you are in one place, the easier
>it is to OOBE.  I have an easier time relaxing at my friend's apartment
>then I do at my house (I live with my parents yet).  As far as travel is
>concerned, I've heard of traveling long distances, though it supposedly
>times a good deal of time to do so.  One friend said that he could go to
>Florida (from Wisconsin), though it would take several hours.  It also
>would take a lot of practice - and make sure you don't pull that silver
>cord too hard.



>Steve

No, I have gone to Hawaii from PA and my friend has come to PA from HI many
times.  It is instant.  We have written via email the next day with times to
confirm.  There is no time involved for travel.

Planet
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
From: dbsbanka@solomon.technet.sg (Teo Pit Koon)
Subject: Re: TLR (was Re: List of books on oob)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 15:09:33 GMT

brown todd francis (brownt@seq.uncwil.edu) wrote:

: Which of TLR's books is the best for oob technique?

	Seems like I've become the spokesman for TLR, what?

	Well, the main "instruction manual" on astral traveling is the
book "You-Forever". The old man devoted about 1-2 chapters on techniques.
Elsewhere throughout his 19 odd books, there are scattered references of
astral projection, like in "The Hermit" where he relates the story of a
blind astral-traveling lama who was abducted by aliens aboard a space-craft.
It would have been useful to piece together these separate references,
but it is too tedious, unless, of course, someone offered to pay for 
the effort and time, :-).

The star gazer ***
From: dbsbanka@solomon.technet.sg (Teo Pit Koon)
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
Subject: Re: TLR (was Re: List of books on oob)
Date: 6 Jan 93 10:29:21 GMT
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]

brown todd francis (brownt@seq.uncwil.edu) wrote:


>A few years ago, I read T Lobsang Rampa's book, _The Third Eye_.
>I thought it was extremely interesting - especially the part
>about physically "liberating" the third eye.  TLR seemed to add
>a real physical dimension to by spiritual studies.

	A great pity indeed, that the physical technique is now lost
to our generation of people (?), though the operation is a abit primitive
in the way it was carried out. I suppose it will only work on a people
whose belief system does not include such a possibility as an infection,
virus etc. Then again, perhaps, the techniques are carefully recorded
for posterity and hidden in the mountain fastness of Tibet.

	I used to fantasize about being part of the exploratory team
who searched the mountain to recover the time capsule that TLR said
was hidden somewhere in Tibet waiting for the ripe time ....

	Wonder also if it would happen in my lifetime, considering the
vast advance we made from an Age of Darkness sixty years ago to now,
that might not be such a far-fetched fantasy after all...


>I am now reading (along with about 20 books) _The Cave of the
>Ancients_.  Thanks alot for your previous post with titles and
>synopsis.

	You're always welcome. BTW, are you Mike?

>Since you have the collection...  Could you possibly condense and
>post TLR's technique for astral projection?  Thanks alot!

	I knew it is coming. I could feel it in my bones, in fact, I had
a premonition. (some deja vu :)

	Since there is some request here, will try my best. But you will
have to wait, cause I need to sort out something physically, and THAT
book is hidden underneath a pile of dust somewhere, if only I know where...

	If there is some one with the book handy, would you do the net
a favour and get it posted ahead of me?

	BTW, I like to find out from people if they knew anything in
the copyright laws, or publishing, or the net regulations etc., is it
OK to publish verbatim a large portion of a book? I seemed to remember
a "not more than 10%" rule near the photocopying machine; I'm getting
lazy and would like to zap the stuff bit-wise using a handy scanner, if I
can find it.


The star gazer ***
CC
===============================================================================
     * ** * * * * *   *   
   ** * ** *** ** * * *              <--  starry night
   *   * *  *  *   * *   
===============================================================================
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
From: org4688@zeus.tamu.edu (GARCIA, OSCAR RENE)
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
Subject: Mass o' Astral Body
Date: 6 Jan 1993 17:59 CST
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: zeus.tamu.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

Ah, but how to get an astral body to the lab for weighing.  Which makes me
wonder, for those of you do OOB how do you decide where to go?  Suppose I
wanted to say hello to a friend in Colorodo (well at least do an Astral fly
by) do you visit places and can you see the real world and hear conversations
etc...
:
Organization: Johannes Kepler University Linz - Computing Center
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 14:57:39 CET
From: <K317370@ALIJKU11.BITNET>
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
Subject: Re: voices
Distribution: alt
 <93011.125124SRK106@psuvm.psu.edu> <1993Jan11.223628.1@husky1.stmarys.ca>

voices:
  well, i have been having these voice experiences, lots
of voices, indeterminate, speaking in agitated but forced
quiet voices, for years. they seem to come when im under
stress, thou sometimes, and more recently, things that
are a little bit disorienting..hering tapes backwards and
forwards simultaneously, or huge white noise (wind from
driving with no widshield) and some other things.... i have
come to the coclusion that they are probably just dimly
remembered voices from my past, in particular, the voices
of my parents arguing when they didnt want to wake the
kids....

has anybody else had experiences lik ethis ?

tim
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 12:51:23 EST
From: Senthil Ramas Kumar <SRK106@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
Subject: Re: voices
Distribution: alt

In article <C0oDI1.JLB@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>, ijr@canard.uwaterloo.ca
(Ilana Jayne Shewchun) says: > Has anyone ever experienced a voice speaking
to you as you began to relax deeply?  Not a nice voice either (at least the
one that 'speaks' to me isn't nice.  Sort of a malevolent murmuring.  I
generally get too rattled to concentrate on what exactly is being said.  I
end up sitting in bed, completely terrified, for about a good ten minutes
after.  Ilana


I would like the experienced folkx to comment a little on this phenomenon,
because I think, this is something that happens to almost to anyone who
starts to have oobe, i.e try to have a consious oobe.  I have so far heard
lotsa voices, even some fool, poking me away at my ribs etc.  Right now, I
am of the opinion that, what ever it is is not harmful at all.  Especially
the poking in the ribs part, it is definetely more scary than just hearing
voices.

I am currently of the opinion that is our sub-consious creation that makes
it feel that things like this are happening.  Another theory I have heard is
that in that trance like state, u can "hear" spirits, etc.  But this theory
is just a fantasy, and shud be left as such, until we can come up with some
proper evidence.

I was just curious what the other folkx have to say to this.

Kumar
From: kbeal@amber (Ken Beal)
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
Subject: Re: Projection... How to do it?
Date: 6 Jan 1993 17:27:06 GMT
Organization: Harris CSD, Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: amber.ssd.csd.harris.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

org4688@zeus.tamu.edu wrote:
: My relative who had this experience said that a study was made to determine
: the exact time a person died (that is the study gathered data on a persons
: brain patterns , heart patterns etc... while she/he was in the process of
: dying.).  However, in the process they found that when a person died the 
: person at the time of death lost about 1/4 th of a pound of mass.  Whether

Hmm.  This sounds interesting; do you have a reference for it?  I'm 
wondering what kind of controls they had on the experiment as well.  For
instance, if they did not keep the person on a scale >while< they died,
instead weighing them before and after, the lost mass could be a result
of sphincter muscles letting go.

I'm also interested in a FAQ or perhaps an ftp site of oob info/experience.

Ken "The Skeptic" Beal
--
Kenneth L. Beal, Jr.  kbeal@amber.ssd.csd.harris.com | Use OS/2 2.0! :-) often.
"I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous!" - MST3k  | Learn.  Keep moving.
"Street person my responsibility." - Indigo Girls    | Better yourself.
The opinions expressed above are shared.  The preceding sentence is false.
*** News at Harris expires daily.  If you want me to see it, please E-MAIL! ***
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
From: The OOBE Monster! <UMSLVMA.UMSL.EDU!S952092>
Subject: Re: Am I having an oobe???????
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 00:07:29 GMT

Original Sender: The OOBE Monster! <UMSLVMA.UMSL.EDU!S952092>

       I don't think you going crazy Jason.  Separating hands are very common
  experience.  What you do is: extend you arm as much as you can, and reach
  out for the other hand,not your hand,just imagine that its there to help you
 to go OOBE.  It always worked for me.  It suppose to pull you out if you will
not resist it.  Those blue lights that your friend saw, they are sort of
"transporters", they appear in case when you ready to go OOBE, tell her to
 focus on them, and concentarte trying not to allow any other thoughts to enter
 and break focus. They suppose to get closer as she will focus on them....

               Good Luck...


                                       Jack
From: spinaa@rpi.edu (Matt Garretson)
Subject: roll-off-the-bed (was Re: OOBEs & dreams about dead people)
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 20:52:29 GMT

In article <1993Jan11.183831.26055@seq.uncwil.edu> brownt@seq.uncwil.edu (brown todd francis) writes:
>Could you please explain in detail what you mean by the "roll of the
>bed" technque?  Were you trying to induce a lucid dream or an OBE?

I was referring to a technique discussed here for going OOB when you find
yourself paralyzed. Basically, in this state you can't physically move, but
if you try to roll to one side, you might end up rolling out of your body,
as it were.

Am I correct in this explanation, folks? Anyway, it seemed to work that night,
much to my surprise!  :)
From: kbeal@amber (Ken Beal)
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
Subject: Re: Projection... How to do it?
Date: 7 Jan 1993 17:19:21 GMT
Organization: Harris CSD, Ft. Lauderdale, FL
NNTP-Posting-Host: amber.ssd.csd.harris.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

Doug Preiser (preiser@cancer.unm.edu) wrote:
: In article <1if4paINNbh3@travis.csd.harris.com>, kbeal@amber (Ken Beal) writes:
: >org4688@zeus.tamu.edu wrote:
: >: person at the time of death lost about 1/4 th of a pound of mass.  Whether
: >
: >instead weighing them before and after, the lost mass could be a result
: >of sphincter muscles letting go.
: >
: >I'm also interested in a FAQ or perhaps an ftp site of oob info/experience.
: >
: >Ken "The Skeptic" Beal
: Mass does not just "go away" without a tremendous release of energy, and I 
: mean TREMENDOUS, as in your town is no longer on the map.

Oh, sorry, I was a bit obscure.  What I meant was, at the point of death,
your sphincter muscles release, and bodily fuilds that you've been trained
since childhood to control, well, lose the control.  In other words, the
"lost mass" could be urine or solid waste that was not counted in the 
weighing (i.e. urine, especially, because it can flow right off the table;
solid waste can't "escape" the vicinity of the body as easily).

And how do you know your town >is< still on the map when you die? :-)
--
Kenneth L. Beal, Jr.  kbeal@amber.ssd.csd.harris.com | Use OS/2 2.0! :-) often.
"I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous!" - MST3k  | Learn.  Keep moving.
"Street person my responsibility." - Indigo Girls    | Better yourself.
The opinions expressed above are shared.  The preceding sentence is false.
*** News at Harris expires daily.  If you want me to see it, please E-MAIL! ***
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
From: derry@fraser.sfu.ca (Andrew Derry)
Subject: Re: WARNING!!!
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 05:24:22 GMT

farris@ruhets.rutgers.edu (Lorenzo Farris) writes:

>:KLAUS WILLIAM WIK (kwi@stud.hsn.no) wrote:
>:: 	Be carefull.Vision youresl a shield and NEVER try OOBE if you have 
>:: abad feeling of it.
>:: 	 There are other OOBE's that may try to enter your body, and if they 
>:: do, your line is cut; you are without a body (if you cant find another OOBE'
>:: r) exactly:DEEP TROUBBLE.
[...etc...]

>This group seems to get a rather high proportion of alarmists.

ya.

>However, every night when you dream you go out of body, anyway. 

So, like some other guy said, why worry if it happens all the time
anyways, and nothing goes wrong? (have you every woke up dead? ;-)

>Of course, it would carry much more weight if an experienced oobe'er
>discusses such issues. 

Well, I can't say that I'm an experienced oobe'er, but I've just
finished reading Monroe's "Journeys Out of the Body" and "Far
Journeys", and in neither book does he come close to the (alarmist)
attitude that Klaus seems to be displaying.  Monroe says he has been
going oob for 25 years (as of the 1985 writing of "Far Journeys")...
It seems to me that if there were anything exceedingly dangerous out
there, he would have found it (or found out about it).

Anyways, who really knows?  A little caution can't hurt, but let's not
get paranoid about it.  I am certainly looking foreward to any oob
experiences that I may have.

Cheers

--
Andrew Derry - derry@sfu.ca
Standard disclaimers apply.