HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cheese@wam.umd.edu (Fletch F. Fletch)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: LV versus AC, compare & contrast
Date: 24 Jul 92 14:20:26 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park

In article <1992Jul24.045646.773@miavx3.mid.muohio.edu> jfeldhouse@miavx3.mid.muohio.edu writes:
>It seems to me that the general opinion
>of Atlantic City for playing BJ is that it
>is less preferable that Las Vegas.
>
>It seems that AC has less low minimum tables,
>less favorable rules, more crowds...
>Is there any thing else? Is there any dissension
>to these opinions?

The main difference, for serious blackjack players, is that LV offers single
deck BJ, very is greatly more advantageous than any multi-deck game, such as
those offered in AC.  Also, LV is much less regulated than AC, allowing more
interesting derivations of table games (special rules, etc...) and coupons
for table games.

Jason
cheese@wam.umd.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: bobcat@csi.jpl.nasa.gov 
Subject: Re: roulette system ad from Eugene Shekhtman
Originator: bobcat@csi
Organization: Jet Propulsion Lab
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 20:38:22 GMT


In article <1992Jul29.194833.9545@nevada.edu>, messiah@nevada.edu (mhw) writes:
|> In article <1992Jul29.062615.5731@redbrick.com> jfr@redbrick.com (Jon Rosen) writes:
|> >  
|> >  The final problem is that under LV law, the use of a computer
|> >  in a gaming roon is illegal (5 yrs in jail).  
|> 
|> This is just another example of poor logical reasoning on behalf of 
|> Nevada legislators. If one does not alter the odds in any way by using
|> a device, then it can hardly be considered cheating. It can however be
|> made illegal inspite of NOT being dishonest.
|> 
|> I see people keeping track of information on paper at baccarat and
|> roulette tables frequently. No one cares! Its not illegal to use paper to
|> keep track of information nor would I imagine keeping track of information
|> on one's fingers. (Note that there are a variety of fairly involved
|> computational operations possible on one's fingers). Now let's say
|> that a person brings an abacus to a BJ game to do the exact same thing it 
|> would have been possible to do on one's fingers (given lotsa practise).
|> Does this begin to exceed the threshold of what legally constitutes a
|> "device?" There was a post about a blind guy who was doing that and I
|> presume he was getting away with this heat free.
|> 
|> Projecting this further, if someone uses their calculator watch to add 
|> up a total for a BJ hand is that illegal use of a device? Somehow I suspect
|> that this legislation would only be applicable in cases where the player
|> actually has a proven edge, and has actually cleaned up with this method.
|> I doubt that the legal lingo reflects this and think it probably is full of
|> loop holes. I also think that the Nevada Gaming Commision is not there to
|> regulate the casinos as much as it there to protect them. Everytime a new
|> chairman of the NV GBC comes on TV they make totally pro-casino statements
|> and conspicuously omits promises to the public such as "and we promise to
|> stamp out casino-skimming."
|> 

As far as I know, this law, which prohibits using a "device" in a casino, 
has never been enforced.  Some people think it may be unconstitutionally
vague.

-- 

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               X  X    X   X    X  X    X      XXXXXXX     X 
               XXX      XXX     XXX      XXX  X       X    X               
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ltf@ncmicro.lonestar.org (Lance Franklin)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: X-based games
Date: 30 Jul 92 19:04:34 GMT
Organization: NC Microproducts, Inc.

jacobs@cs.utah.edu (Steven R Jacobs) writes:
}bri@kpc.com (Brian Rice) writes:
}>
}> Hey all you gaming wizards, (and you know who you are!) anybody written
}> any X-based programs that allow you to *play* casino games?  I've seen
     ...
}> easiest one (well, single deck anyway) but another obvious one based on 
}> recent discussions here would be a computerized version of video poker.
}
}I haven't seen much in the way of X-based gambling programs.  I've
}seen a blackjack game that runs under GNU Emacs, but that's about it.
}Might be a fun project, but I'm pretty bogged down in other projects
}to take on something like this...

Well, if you're going to do this, do it all the way...

Develop a network server for the thing to provide a "House" that contains
any of several "game" sub-servers, all drawing for funds from a common
"House" bank.  Develop network protocols to allow several players running
a local "game" client to sit in at the same table.  The first "game"
server to develop would probably be blackjack, as the code available
for this game is already available in several incarnations.  An important
design characteristic should be that all gameplay is controlled by the
sub-server...client "player" programs on the network should only handle
user input and game display.  This should avoid the problem of modified
clients that cheat.  Another problem will be encryption of communications
between client and server, to avoid the possibility of "peeking" by a
modified client.

I see definate possibilities for this pretty little problem.  Floating
crap games that REALLY float, endless poker games, gambling empires rise
and fall, robotic players that test your strategies against REAL players.

You can probably steal (whoops...sorry, borrow) quite a bit of the code
from any of the many MUD programs out there.

-- 
Lance T. Franklin            +----------------------------------------------+
(ltf@ncmicro.lonestar.org)   | "You want I should bop you with this here    |
NC Microproducts, Inc.       |    Lollipop?!?"                 The Fat Fury |
Richardson, Texas            +----------------------------------------------+
From: root@sickbay.austin.ibm.com
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: does lightening strike twice, really ???!!!!
Date: 21 Jul 92 15:51:18 GMT
Organization: ttmar ltd., Austin

>In '79 this guy won 2.8million francs on the lottery (290000sterling).
>Frittered it away, to the point where his phone was cut off, his car 
>repossessed, and his family threatened with eviction.  How to get out of 
>this fix?  Simple - he won the lottery again! 17million francs, or 1.
>76million pounds sterling.
>Some people......
 It is really, truely unbelievable ! But lemme ask ya, how did he "frittered"
 it away ? Bought blue chip stocks, or maybe some "good municipal bonds" ?
 Just a curious, inquiring mind want to know.    ;-)
 I used to be a broker, and I think this is a riot.
 Cheers
 AMN 
 Merril Lynch is bullish on America, so how can I sell the "World" short ??
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: Eric B Karabin <ekarabin@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: 6/49 Analysis  Comment.
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 13:12:35 GMT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]



	One thing all of you don't seem to realize is that this
world is loaded with ignorant people.

	So, no matter what you say about this guy selling past
lottery numbers, he will still probably make money.
You can yell at him all you want, but isn't he the intelligent one???

After all, your flames make no money!



	But then again, he is posting this to a newsgroup (where generally
more intelligent people will have access to it) (ie. College students, 
corporate associates, etc...).

So, I guess that is pretty stupid.  He should be talking out ads in
the National Enquirerer (sp).


------------------------------------------------------------------------
ekarabin@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
70004.1523@compuserve.com
ekarabin@csi.compuserve.com
From: mitch@lsil.com (Mitch Sako)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Cheating at Poker
Date: 21 Jul 92 17:33:34 GMT
Reply-To: mitch@lsil.com
Organization: LSI Logic Corporation

Anyone have experiences with cheating in public cardrooms?  There are an infinite
number of ways to get cheated while playing poker.  The most popular form is
playing partners where two or more other players will share information during
a game.  Many rooms have rules against husband and wife playing in the same game
supposedly to do away with this.

Stripping, peeking, and marking are the most common ways of cheating by dealers,
usually in collusion with a player at the table.

I don't really consider dirty play (checking out of turn and then raising) a
form of cheating, it's just unethical.

I'd be interested to hear stories.  I have plenty of my own.
---

Mitch Sako - LSI Logic Corp		Phone  408-433-4187
internet:    msako@lsil.com		FAX    408-433-8796
uucp:        lsil!msako
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: adams@chuck.dallas.sgi.com (Chuck Adams)
Subject: Re: Variations of Poker wanted
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 18:04:21 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.141514.28018@aio.jsc.nasa.gov>, cobarruvias@asd2.jsc.nasa.gov writes:
|> I have a monthly poker game that is more for socializing than winning $$. I
|> feel we are in a rut with the same games being played over and over. Can anyone
|> pass on their favorite variations of poker? We play the usuals:
|> 
|> 5 stud
|> 7 stud
|> 5 draw, jacks to open, trips to win
|> 7 stud hi/low
|> 7 stud roll your own
|> Follow the queen
|> Imaginary
|> 
|> We rarely play any wild card games (except for follow the queen) but would try
|> anything interesting.
|> 
|> Thanks!
|>  

Here is a version i've seen played.

Game is called Coal Miner's Daughter.

Five card stud.  All cards to be dealt face up.  Bet before each card
round.  Betting doubled after each card and no raises.

Say first bet is 1 unit.  Everybody puts down 1 unit.  First card is
dealt face up.  Everybody sees all the cards.  If you wanna to continue
to play, put in 2 units.  If you quit, at any time, then you are through.  

Next card is dealt to all players who put in 2 units.  If you decide
to continue play, then 4 units placed in pot.  Next card delt face up
to all remaining players.  Next bet is 8 units and the last bet is
16 units.

If there are 7 players and all 7 players stay to the end, then the
final pot is

   7 x ( 1 + 2 + 4 + 8 + 16 ) = 217 units.

high poker hand takes the pot, no wild cards, split the pot on ties.
NO RANK on suits as per previous threads on this subject.

Game is pretty tame, but builds some good pots.  i think it's great
to show beginners how to play poker and rank hands, etc.  IMHO.

Remember Kids:  Education is expensive no matter how you get it.  :-)

Don't think you'll see this game in Vegas or in theatres near you - ever.


-- 

   Chuck Adams, Southern Education Center
   Silicon Graphics, Inc.
   15280 Addison Road, Suite 100
   Dallas, TX  75248

   (214) 788-0957 (fax)
   (214) 788-4122 (voice)
   
   K5FO @ 65wpm cw ---  adams@sgi.com

--------------------------------------------------
Heisenberg may have been here.  *
From: tedr@athena.cs.uga.edu (Ted Kalivoda)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Single deck vs. Multi deck
Date: 24 Jul 92 15:56:13 GMT
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens


The FAQ is quite interesting.  However, there is nothing abou the difference
between single and multi deck games for black jack.  Besides the number of 
decks, could someone offer their expertise about the advantages of single
deck games.  

thanks,
Newsgroups: rec.gambling,ont.forsale
From: kgdykes@thinkage.on.ca (Ken Dykes)
Subject: Re: Lotto 6/49 Analysis - Ontario
Organization: Thinkage Ltd.
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 09:47:22 GMT

In article <anne.712352043@menaik> anne@cs.UAlberta.CA (Anne J.R. Nield) writes:
>ricegm@ecf.toronto.edu (George Matthew Rice) writes:
>>My question though is this. If this state run gamblimg machine that
>>we call the lottery donates all profits (I don't beleive it but...)
>>charities then does that mean that we can claim these lotto tickets
>>as charitable contributions when it comes tax time?
>I LIKE this thought!!  Makes sense to me (which absolutely guarantees
>it won't make sense to the government!!)
>How can we check up on this??


well, i assume if a charity GAVE you money when in need, you have to
declare that as INCOME.
so...
 if you want to claim deductions, you would probably have to declare
income from lotteries too...

i'd rather keep winnings tax-free, thankyou.

-- 
   - Ken Dykes, Thinkage Ltd., Kitchener, Ontario, Canada    [43.47N 80.52W]
         postmaster@thinkage.on.ca  kgdykes@thinkage.on.ca  thinkage!kgdykes
         kgdykes@math.uwaterloo.ca  [129.97.128.1]      kgdykes@thinkage.com
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: gopstein@helix.bms.com (Rich Gopstein)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Uston vs. Resorts Intl (barring in AC)
Date: 28 Jul 92 12:52:44 GMT
Organization: Bristol-Myers Squibb PRI

The question of whether casinos in AC could bar card counters was
briefly discussed in some recent postings.  I decided to do a little
research on that topic, and I found the following Superior Court of NJ
ruling on Uston vs. Resorts Intl.  Apparently, Ken Uston was barred
from playing blackjack by Resorts Intl. because he was a card counter.
The following is a fragment of the decision of the court on Uston's
appeal after the Casino Control Commision upheld the barring:


--------------------------------------------------------------------

    KENNETH S. USTON, PLAINTIFF-APPELLANT, v. RESORTS IN-
    TERNATIONAL HOTEL, INC., DEFENDANT-RESPONDENT,
    AND NEW JERSEY CASINO CONTROL COMMISSION, INTER-
    VENOR-RESPONDENT.
                          Superior Court of New Jersey
                               Appellate Division

                  Argued March 9, 1981-Decide May 11, 1981.


(most of text deleted)


  [1,2] It is manifest by the terms of the above section that it
is the Commission which is solely vested with the authority to
designate persons to be excluded from the casinos, under reason-
able standards first established by the Commission. It is plainly
implicit therein that a casino itself is not empowered to so
blacklist and exclude a person despite the apparent failure of
the Commission as yet to execute this delegation of authority.
Thus, even making the dubious assumption that Garifine does
espouse a common-law right in a gambling casino to exclude or
to expel any person who, for any reason, may be persona non
grata, such common-law rule has been abrogated by the forego-
ing provisions of N.J. S.A. 5:12-71a delegating such authority to
the Commission exclusively. Whether, under the provisions of
this statute, the Commission is empowered to promulgate stan-
dards such as would exclude card counters from blackjack games
at the casinos, is not now before us and we express no opinion
thereon.
  Accordingly, and for the foregoing reasons, the order of the
Casino Control Commission of December 31,1979, dismissing the
complaint of Uston, is reversed, and the Commission hereby is
directed to enter an order enjoining respondent Resorts to admit
Uston to its casino and to permit him to engage in the game of
blackjack wherever offered at said casino operated by Resorts.


-- 
Rich Gopstein

gopstein@bms.com
rutgers!bms.com!gopstein
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: rick@always.com (Rick Wagner)
Subject: BJ side bet: Royal match
Organization: Always Technology Corp.; Westlake Village, CA
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 19:51:13 GMT


When at Harrah's Laughlin two weeks ago, I noticed they had a new
game.  It is a side bet on some black jack tables called Royal Match.

The object is:

You place a side bet in a spot marked next to the regular BJ bet.  The
bet has no correlation to your regular bet.  It can be from $1 -
$30(?).  It may also be more than your regular bet.  I didn't check to
see if you play just the match without a regular bet.

The cards are dealt as normal.  Then the dealer asks for and pays
matches for all the players making this bet.  I think this happens
before calling for insurance.  Regular play then proceeds.

The rules for the match are:  if your first two dealt cards are the
same suit, then you are paid 3 to 1.  If they are the Q & K of the
same suit, you are paid 10 to 1.  Otherwise you lose your bet.

What are the expectations for this bet, assuming it is played before a
dealer BJ?  After a dealer BJ?

I played a few hands, and kept a mental "feel".  I guess-timate I lost
this bet 5-to-3.  However, my wife and a few others at the table
played this, and made a killing.  My wife walked away with $300 of
theirs from an initial allowance of about $40; probably better than
half from this bet.

	--rick
-- 
Rick Wagner / Always Technology			email: rick@always.COM
31336 Via Colinas, Suite 101			Voice: 1-818-597-1400
Westlake Village, CA 91362			Fax: 1-818-597-1496

Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: sethb@fid.morgan.com (Seth Breidbart)
Subject: Re: Samuelsen
Organization: my opinions only
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 00:01:21 GMT

In article <1992Jul16.175655.19706@leland.Stanford.EDU>
zwiebel@leland.Stanford.EDU (Jeffrey Zwiebel) writes:
>In article <JACOBS.92Jul16083656@cells.cs.utah.edu> jacobs@cs.utah.edu (Steven R Jacobs) writes:
>>
>>[I've changed the Subject: line to something more informative]
>>
>>In article <1992Jul16.023514.2819@leland.Stanford.EDU> zwiebel@leland.Stanford.EDU (Jeffrey Zwiebel) writes:
>>>In article <JACOBS.92Jul15190723@cells.cs.utah.edu> jacobs@cs.utah.edu (Steven R Jacobs) writes:
>>>>In article <1992Jul15.235907.17186@leland.Stanford.EDU> zwiebel@leland.Stanford.EDU (Jeffrey Zwiebel) writes:
>>[munch]

>>What I'm really interested in here is knowing what kinds of utility functions
>>allow the optimal strategy to by found by finding the one period strategy
>>(since I already know how to do that for BJ, and it looks like it would
>>be very difficult to do it another way).
>>
>The answer to this is exactly and only the CRRA family of utility functions.
>(this is of course underthe assumption that the gamble is the same each
>period, which it isn't given counting).

If you consider a period to be all the bets between shuffles, then
blackjack is the same each period.  Of course, that makes the analysis
a little harder :-)  (But with 2 rounds of 7, playing one hand, it
should still be feasible.)

>This includes log utility, which is part of the CRRA family (when parameter
>a=0). 
>Once again, each different CRRA utility function implies a different, static,
>optimal strategy.  Only if the parameter a is near 0 will this strategy look
>like Kelly (which is precisely the optimal strategy for a=0).  
>When a=1 CRRA utility becomes risk nuetrality, i.e., maximize expectations,
>so this is part of the family as well.
>
>>>No.  If utility is CRRA, the optimal strategy will be static (given
>>>by the one period strategy).
>>
>>Is the optimal strategy also static for a logarithmic utility function?

Yes, log(bankroll) is CRRA.

Seth		sethb@fid.morgan.com
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: jacko@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Jacko)
Subject: Re: Vegas rental cars
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 15:02:24 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.011921.11615@kronos.arc.nasa.gov> hall@kronos.arc.nasa.gov (Michael Hall) writes:
>Here are some economy car prices for this weekend in Vegas:
>
>COMPANY   PRICE/DAY
<snip>
>
>These seem a bit higher than usual, with prices under $20 a day being common.

Keep in mind that there are millions of fleas descending upon Vegas every
weekend this summer, thanks to the half-price airfare sale.  That and the
fact that most of the car-rental companies are as nearly-broke as the airlines.

Jacko.
From: dreyfus@intellistor.com (Chuck Dreyfus)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Trip report Foxwood Conn.
Date: 24 Jul 92 15:32:39 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Intellistor, Longmont, CO

Maybe I missed this but were the craps tables double odds?

-- 

46 over and out
dreyfus@intellistor.com
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: markowit@deshaw.com (Steven Markowitz)
Subject: Re: Strategy variations at the LV Club
Organization: D. E. Shaw & Co.
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 16:36:55 GMT

     Shouldn't the hit/stand strategy be different when you have a
five card hand, because of the six card automatic win rule?  In
_Professional Blackjack_, Stanford Wong gives a hit/stand strategy for
five card hands in this game, but I don't know whether it is correct.


---- Steve
Newsgroups: rec.gambling,ont.forsale,misc.forsale
From: smlacke@isrc.sandia.gov (Scott M Lackey)
Subject: Re: Lotto 6/49 Analysis - Ontario
Organization: Sandia National Labs, Org. 1600, Albq., NM
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 19:37:37 GMT

From article <Bs3w79.7L8@ecf.toronto.edu>, by ricegm@ecf.toronto.edu (George Matthew Rice):
> In article <1992Jul27.223555.14651@isrc.sandia.gov> smlacke@isrc.sandia.gov (Scott M Lackey) writes:
>>  data after the fact.  Example: Take all of the lotteries and 
>>  look for significant occurances of any number in any single
>>  one of them.  Then determine the odds of that particular
>>  number coming up in a single lottery.  The odds will probable
>>  be thousands to one at least.  This would sound great to the
> 
> Actually the odds of a number a number being chosen in 6/49
> is 1 in 49 :-?
Lines deleted
> Matthew

	Looking at my original posting, it wasn't clear what I was trying
to say.  If you look around for a lottery in which any number ( not
any specific number) has come up an inordinate number of times, you
will surely find many instances. To then calculate the odds of that
number coming up that many times (or more) in that lottery will give
you a very small probability.  This is far from proving that the
odds of the lottery being random are this small.  

Scott Lackey.

Newsgroups: rec.gambling