From: jim@mwhhlaw (James P. Cavanaugh III)
Subject: Re: Thelma & Louise
Organization: Martin Wade Hartley & Hollingsworth
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 13:28:28 GMT

> 
>         I am looking for a car to restore, in particular a 1969 Ford
> Thunderbird, like the one in Thelma & Louise.  Can anyone give me
> an idea of where to start, or perhaps how much I will have to pay
> to acquire one of these autos?  I am planning on restoring it myself
> 
> 
> thanks!
> paisley@iastate.edu

	If what you want is a 4 seat collectible TBird, here's what I  
can tell you.  These come in 3 basic flavors: 1958-60, 1961-63, and  
1964-66.  These 4 seat Birds are much different from the 1955-57 2 seat  
Birds.  I have a 61 Hardtop. 
	The Thelma and Louise Bird was a 66.  Mechanically, all 58-66  
Birds are fairly similar.  Generally values of each year within a 3  
year series are pretty constant, and the older the series, the higher  
the value (although the differences are not that great).
	Basically, these are good, solid cars.  They are unit bodies  
(not built on a separate frame), so watch out for rust underneath.  The  
most serious place for rust on these is the supports for where the  
upper inner fenders attach to the unit body.  Beware, because you  
cannot see this rust when the front fender liners are in place.  One  
clue is if, when you open the hood, you see rust or evidence of body  
filler on the tops of the inner fenders (pretty much directly over the  
front spring/suspension area).  Floors and rear quarter panels are also  
known for rust.  In general, I think that the 64-66's have more quarter  
panel rust problems than the 61-63's.
	If you are intent on a 64-66 (I like the looks of the 61-63  
better, personally, but to each his own) you should know 2 things:  (1)  
Every one of these cars has cracks on the door panel armrest/door  
pulls.  The supply houses will sell new door panel skins, but I  
understand these are tricky to install properly.  (2)  These cars all  
have the infamous sequential rear turn signals (3 segments in each  
taillight that flash in sequence 1-2-3 1-2-3 1-2-3 . . .). It was a  
complex, expensive and trouble prone setup.  One of the parts suppliers  
sells an electronic replacement control unit, but, owning a 61, I don't  
have to fool with the things and don't know if it is worth it or not.
	These were heavy, well built cars.  Even those flogged for well  
over 100,000 miles do not show the wear you would normally expect.   
Build quality was quite good when new, as these cars shared the same  
assembly line with Lincolns at the Wixom Michigan assembly plant.
	Every TBird from 61 on had the FoMoCo 390 as standard, probably  
with a 4 barrel carb.  In 65 and 66, Ford made the 428 optional.  In my  
view, all the 428 gives you is lower gas mileage.  The 390 4 bbl in my  
61 gives me all the grunt I need.
	Convertibles are worth substantially more $ than hardtops.  Get  
a value guide.  Some years, there were 2 flavors of hardtops, with  
"landaus" being worth slightly more than the plain vanilla hardtops.   
If you want a convertible, beware the "Sports Roadster with M power"  
disease.  Ford made a very limited number of specially equipped  
convertibles called Sports Roadsters.  The main difference was a big  
fiberglass tonneau cover that made the car look like a 2 seat car.   
Also, real wire wheels and various other trim items.  They are rare and  
expensive.  They were only offered in 62-64, I believe.  Ford also  
offered a high performance 390 V8 with 3 2barrel carbs, designated by  
code "M" (I think).  They, too, are rare and expensive (and not  
terribly driveable, either, unless you like to drag race).  Someone  
makes reproduction parts for the Sports Roadsters and it seems that  
half of the 61-66 convertibles in existance have been turned into  
Sports Roadsters.  It sometimes seems like half of those have had the  
triple carb setup installed with new data plates showing the M code.   
Unless you get it for the same price as a regular cars, do not buy one  
of these without getting someone very knowlegable in these cars to  
document it for you.
	These are widely collected cars, so parts are plentiful.  There  
is a good club for owners/friends of these cars: Vintage Thunderbird  
Club International.  Let me know if you need the address.  They have a  
nice bi-monthly magazine and make technical help available.  Also, get  
a copy of Hemmings Motor News.  In it, you will find ads for most of  
the major TBird parts suppliers.  I have dealt with Dottling's  
Thunderbird Connection in Phoenix, and have been quite satisfied.
	 You can buy a TBird newer than 66.  It will not look like  
Thelma and Louise's.  IMHO, it will not be as good of a car (can you  
spell rust bucket?) and is not nearly as good looking (especially the 4  
door models).  It will be substantially cheaper, because it is not  
nearly as widely collected.  The corrollary is that trim parts will not  
be as readily available.
	Good luck.  These are great cars.  At 4000 + pounds, they are  
probably the heaviest 113 inch wheelbase cars ever built.  Also, the  
best looking.

Jim Cavanaugh