HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 12:34:24 -0400 
From: "Joseph E. Beck" <jb8n+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Was AKIRA/Crippler being a butthead? You call it!!!!
	<1bbcl5INNmn@agate.berkeley.edu>


>This is *not* a fact.  Taking 3rd space is very popular amongst CMUers
>(especially MUCUS, of course), but I don't feel it's a legitimate tactic
>and your statement is certainly not factual.
>
>When I type 'xtrek' (yeah, should make it netrek, but whatever) I expect
>to be playing a game against people, and trying to take their planets.
>If I wanted to take undefended planets from robots, I would go to an
>empty server.  Why don't you do that next time, Kevin, and not ruin
>the game for people who are interested in playing it.
Well Tom, thanks for deciding what we do and don't like.  Breaking an
LPS if the defense has clue is almost impossible.  Genocide often doesn't
happen in tournaments, even with horendous lag you managed to prevent
genocide in your last game, correct?  

>If you would never genocide them, you don't deserve the genocide.  End
>of story.
This is just stupid.  So since the attackers aren't mondo enough they
earn the right to be bored for several hours (while the defense fights
out of their LPS).  Maybe this is your conception of netrek but a lot
of us disagree.  Face it, the attackers adjusted strategy (went for
3rd space) and the defense didn't respond properly so they lost.  End
of story.

	joe
	Purple haze
From: paulsen@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (FreeKill)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Questions about detting
Date: 15 Oct 92 14:44:48 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania


To all of you server gurus out there...
On a bronco style server, what are the values of
EXPDIST, DAMDIST, and DETDIST?

What are the values on a non-bronco server?

Please mail replies to ...
paulsb@crpd0.gs.com

Thanks,
Brian

Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: jmn@crown.berkeley.edu (J. Mark Noworolski)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: NBR Proposal
Date: 16 Oct 1992 21:17:10 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: crown.berkeley.edu

I have been thinking a great deal about how much wind I pass playing netrek
recently and have come up with the idea of limiting my game play to some
amount of time each day. Rather than write a little alarm clock to do this I
have thought that it might be a good idea to incorporate this into a client. 

When you start a game you send a message to yourself indicating the amount
of time you want to play and when the time is up it sends a bunch of messages
to you basically saying "GET THE HELL OFF- YOU HAVE PLAYED ENOUGH TODAY" or
something to that effect (or kills the job? 8-P )

This is NOT a joke.

I am willing to hack the code to do this myself and figure that it is minimal 
overhead to the client so people shouldn't object, right? Presumably I would
start by using Mehlhaff's client code or some other client code which is 
partway conformal to NBR proposals already passed. 

Comments are welcome. Am I supposed to post another article to call for votes
or something like that?

Passing Wind

Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: jonathan@author.ecn.purdue.edu (Jonathan L Neuenschwander)
Subject: Re: Curiouser and curiouser
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: 12 Oct 92 06:39:38 GMT

[ Curiousity over two players being logged in from the same account deleted. ]

I used to do this when I didn't have an account with access to X-windows.  I'd 
use Uncle Fester's account to play.

Someone once tried to accuse him of t-mode scumming, but promptly shut up when
it was pointed out that we both:

A.  Had kills/were taking planets/and so on.  Odd for a freekill to be so 
active.

B.  Were on the same team.  Tough to rack up those kills when your phasers
and torps have no effect on your intended victim.  :-)

Jonathan
El Kabong

HELP! Distress Call from .sig file  0% Shields, 98% Damage, 0 Armies.
From: jasonp@scat4.prime.com (Jason Pascucci)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Mouse Acceleration/Threshold
Date: 9 Oct 92 18:40:45 GMT
Organization: Prime Computer

Hi, Yall...

To provoke a discussion reminescent of the keymaps issue:
How about the mice? What do you set your mouse acceleration and 
threshhold to while playing?

I used to set it to 8 2, but have since toned down to 7 3.

(For those who don't know, mouse acceleration and threshold
are set using 'xset m <accel> <thresh>'. When the 
number-of-pixels/unclear-time-unit exceeds the thresh value,
it gets accelerated to the acceleration value.)

So? Do you change your own, or do you use the default.
(Whatever that is...)

Steele
--
Jason R. Pascucci
jasonp@primerd.prime.com
From: c60b-3ff@web-3a.berkeley.edu (Gene Choi)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: GB vs LA Riot at Calvin
Date: 11 Oct 1992 02:46:34 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: web-3a.berkeley.edu

In article <1b7tmhINNs78@girtab.usc.edu> echeverr@scf.usc.edu (5150) writes:
>
>Sorry, Gene, but your opinions are untenable.  We at USC have that exact
>same packet loss anywhere else.  Today in our aborted IC-TOE game, i had
>17%|18% for a while.  After i switched hosts, i got it down to a playable
>9/8.  Last night i was playing at an even 12/12 loss at harvey, discovery
>and doorstop.

I'd like to clear something up now.  Ping times were not bad in
yesterday's matchup at USC.  The usual. 80, 80, 300, 80, 80, 500, 80,
80, 80, 60, 500, etc.  That's usual.  Packet loss was about 15%.
Not bad either.  That's not what I'm talking about.  What I'm saying
is that our inputs (firing torps, cloaking, etc) were always getting
lost.  There was never a time when a "l" packet would ever go through.
It always required a 2nd and 3rd type before it actually locked
shown by the little arrow with the UDP option.  Very bad for our
planet takers trying to take planets under defenders.  It was weird.  As
Mojo's post explained earlier, I've never seen this kind of packet loss.
The part that troubled me was that it was that packet loss was
consistent.  After typing "l" several times to lock onto a planet,
pressing a "c" was guaranteed not to cloak.  Once the "c" was pressed
several times though, the next consecutive "c"'s would turn cloaking
on/off/on/off as usual.  It seemed that the 1st and 2nd
keytypes/mousebutton presses were consistently getting lost.  Strange.

I think yesterday's bad net was a combination of 2 factors.
1) USC's gateway sucks rock.  This is to be expected.  No problems
there.
2) Cerfnet's net was very flaky.  All connections from the Bay Area
goes through Cerfnet.  Damn.  At least the NSF can maintain decent
net connections.

>Stop whining and take the loss on your feet.  I know that lag from `SC to
>Berkeley is bad, but you gotta realize that `SC players have to put up with
>that shitty lag every single game that isn't at home.

Hey Ron.  Remember when I played from your lab down at USC in the
SINL game?  Remember how I complained that the net out of USC was
bad to Berkeley? (You should know since you were complaining
right next to me).  Yesterday's game was 5x worse, no exaggerations..
End of story.

Anyway, I hope noone takes my complaints the wrong way.  LA Riot
is a good team.  No question about that.  I just don't think we
were given a fair chance with that kind of net.  But a loss is
a loss.  And that's the way it goes.  It's called home field
advantage, in the far extreme.  Oh well.  It's only a game.

It was fun though phaser locking the carriers in the LPS.  I'm
surprised we didn't actually get genocided.  We prayed
that people didn't all get frozen at the same time.

Gene

P.S.  You would think USC would get a decent gateway with all the
cash that flows in from its students though..  What is tuition now?
$30000 including dorm fees?  Just curious.
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 09:28:57 -0400 
From: Tomato Boy <stimpy+@cmu.edu>
Subject: recorder

FreeKill writes:
#
# >	This is the same reason that I think that the flight recorder 
# >should be not only allowed in games, but improved and encouraged.
# >  While I didn't get much out of watching it, I'm sure that there
# >is a lot to be gained from such a device.
#
# I agree.  It's also unfortunate that few people outside of CMU even knows
# that it exists.
# 
# >ZZnew guy

err, few people INSIDE CMU know it exists, either. There is a file
in spiff's archives in netrek/code/ called "recorder-patch"
This is a simple code patch for the client that is easily added
to the code and compiled. The client then takes a -f (file) switch
that dumps some of your packets into a file. The patch was posted
on this newsgroup in June and has been in the archives since then.
If you haven't been recording games, you have no one to blame but
yourself.  :)

As far as I know, NO ONE has been recording games. In fact, the
person who wrote the recorder and player (ensign) has since
*removed* the player from his account. So even if you were using
the recorder, you'd have a hard time getting playback.  :)

Recently I've been prodding him to re-write the player, cause
I want to start recording games. I compiled the client with the
recorder patches, and it seems to work fine. I offered it for
use before the SS-XG game several times, but no one seemed
interested. Before the RS-GBO game this summer, ensign *asked*
if he could use the recorder on the game, and GBO said no.
I don't know where this misnomer about CMUers recording all
their games and watching them later comes from, but it couldn't
be more false. In fact, it was only FreeKill's mentioning of it
that made me look into it.

--Rick
gack! sorry to be posting so much. This is the r.g.n. equivalent
of a filibuster. :)
From: kordas@huey.EEAP.CWRU.Edu (kordas)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Netrek in an arcade?
Date: 9 Oct 1992 19:03:29 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Electrical Engineering, CWRU, Cleve. OH
NNTP-Posting-Host: huey.eeap.cwru.edu

All of this talk sounds almost EXACTLY like the Battletech Center  in
Chiacago. No it wouldn't tak every much (at ALL) to convert such a system
into a netrek center---complete with newbie instructional videos and employees
dressed in obnoxious uniforms....



-Tim Kordas
From: bav@hobbes.ksu.ksu.edu (Brick Verser)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: The Team With No Name scrimmages Lagg U
Date: 15 Oct 1992 11:05:24 GMT
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: hobbes.ksu.ksu.edu
Keywords: INL scrimmage LPS

surge@cqs.washington.edu (Jonathan Sari) writes:
>The Team With No Name was kind enough to scrimmage us today, and they
>rapidly LPS'ed us, as expected.  After spending way too much time in
>the LPS, we all ghostbusted and their only local player scummed the
>last planet.

Oh!  Ouch!  My ears are burning.  

This was clearly a plot by the IC to sully TWNN's record by preventing our
last-minute triumph.  I don't know how they did it, but IC managed to
take down our T1 link with 12 minutes to go in the game.  And for some
reason these weenie players started complaining about the 4000ms lag
and 50%+ packet loss when the 56KB backup kicked in.  What a bunch of 
mamby pamby whiners!

Well...I was not about to let a genocide go un-geno'd.  And it was NOT
against an undefended home planet...I never coulda done it if one of your
players hadn't come back in after the ghostbust (I kinda tried to coerce
the T1 line to life and didn't exactly succeed, but did ghostbust everyone
in the process--IC was very thorough).  But that lone LaggU defender was
kind enough to sit still for a few seconds to give me a kill--I then 
zoomed in past heavy defensive fire (I think he fired at least one torp)
and snagged a glorious genocide for TWNN.  Yay us.

--Brick

(It was a fine fun game.  Thanks all.)
From: cvadrayb@vmsb.is.csupomona.edu (Dr. Strange)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: The Fine Art of 1 Update Netrek
Date: 14 Oct 92 00:54:58 GMT
Followup-To: rec.games.netrek
Organization: California State Polytechnic University, Pomona
Nntp-Posting-User: cvadrayb

In article <1992Oct13.044329.13974@wixer.cactus.org>, rhodesia@wixer.cactus.org (Felix S. Gallo) writes:

> I accounted for about 9 armies in 20 minutes before coming to the
> conclusion that there has never been a more clue-forcing and yet
> extremely frustrating way to play netrek.  Every duck and cover
> scout move had to be made while the screen redrew -- blind -- with
> as much as an inch and a half of error in enemy positional guessing.
> Torps would come out at their leisure.  I finally realized I'd
> have to come back at the problem from another angle when I out-juked
> an anti-scoutbomber (what a dumb strategy that is) only to fall for
> the uncloaking base next to you trick.  1 update/second netrek is
> extremely demanding on one's powers of multitasking.
> 
> So my question is: does anyone else play like this?  Clearly,
> engaging the enemy is not something to be taken lightly when they
> receive nine times as much information as you, but what are other
> strategies people use when they've got the equivalent of 800 ms
> lag?  I remember some CMU people talking about cloaking when they
> entered to maximize survival chances.
> 

Actually, Yes.. I was playing netrek from a crippled network in Germany last
year, where my ping times were sometimes 3-4 times that. I played on Bronco
under the name up Buttkick, and was the one who was constantly complaining :).

I found that it IS possible to do, however, even in clued games. You avoid 
dog-fighting as much as possible, and try to stick near someone who can see.
locking on planets isn't much of a planet, so once you scum some kills you 
can take undefended planets without to much problem. defended planets are
more tricky.. I found it was usually a matter of hitting the correct key 
combinations and waiting to see what happens.

My lag was usually so bad that by the time I saw another ship in short range
I was already dead back on the server. But I also found that firing torpedoes
in the general direction of the enemy sometimes makes them cautious enough to
allow you to see them before exploding.

It is a very frustrating way to play netrek, and I must say my ratios have
improved dramatically since coming back, despite still being non-clued.

-Kevin
Now.. DaVandal
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: spot@CS.CMU.EDU (Scott Draves)
Subject: Re: ENPN Coaches' Poll!  (After Game 1)
Originator: spot@HOPELESS.MESS.CS.CMU.EDU
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon University
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 04:02:13 GMT


sjsmith>  4.     Golden Bears [1-0] 160 (2) 4
                                        ^^^


heh.

care to identify yourselves?

-- 
			organize
Scott Draves		enumerate
spot@cs.cmu.edu		file
From: von@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Steve Von Worley)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: LA Riot -vs- GB, game stats
Date: 11 Oct 92 18:54:43 GMT
Article-I.D.: pasteur.1992Oct11.185443.19040
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley

In article <1b8kt8INNkcd@agate.berkeley.edu> tom@soda.berkeley.edu (Tom Holub) writes:

>Golden Bears at :) at flint, Bears playing without UDP and :) playing
>with UDP.

Mojo you are such a weenie!  Why do you have to rehash this over and
over and over... ?

I did not play with UDP; I am fairly sure that no one else on :) did.
Escpecially since several on my team rejoined after it was turned off.
Also, since we we played at flint and thus everyone else on the team
had sub-100 ms ping times, what's the difference?

Furthermore, you admitted to me that one on your team DID use UDP.

I had ~300 ms ping times at points, and still dooshed the hell out
of your team.  (this was less than some of the ping measurements
made to UCB, if I remember correctly).

We had a good team; I think it's because you were GENOCIDED that you
can't accept the loss.  Irregardless of lag we would have beat you.
:) was a good team!

:) :) :)

Sandia
-- 
Steve Von Worley
von@cory.berkeley.edu
Computer Science Gradual Student
University of California at Berzerkly 
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: hill@norman.VI.RI.CMU.EDU (Robert Hill)
Subject: Re: Lack of t-mode on bigdog ... a fix?
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 19:36:48 GMT

Jack W. Judy writes

> Just my thoughts.
> 
> I would *really* like to see t-mode on bigdog.cs.berkeley.edu more  
often.

I also.  It is a good server.  Why don't some of you berkeley dudes pick a  
good night of the week and make it bigdog night.  Have people log in at  
5PT and play as long as there is a game?  Perhaps you could do it?  I'd  
love to play on bigdog more.  The clue game there seemed to be successful  
for awhile, at least.

Would someone ask jack hsu to get rid of transwarp and 3 space night?   
They just add misery to the problem.  I hate seeing the game turn into who  
can get "the gift".  Jack doesn't read this newsgroup anymore, and I can't  
remember his email address.  jh?

Rob
aka Spaceace!
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 06:59:03 -0400 
From: Tomato Boy <stimpy+@cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Plasma Tactic

jonathan@author.ecn.purdue.edu writes:
#
# Here's a tactic that Xymox and I invented awhile back:
# 
[...]

shyeah, right. you invented it. Guess you never ran into the
WALL

OF

PLASMA

And I doubt that WE even invented it.

--Count SMACKula
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: ramid@nyx.cs.du.edu (Rudy Amid)
Subject: Re: I'm weak...
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 01:13:20 GMT

rjones@dsd.es.com (Ray Jones - Perp) writes:

>Yeah, I said a year.  Then I said, "until I graduate."
>I meant two weeks.
>I have a car now, suddenly I have time for netrek again.  Best $10,000
>I ever invested. 
>I won't be taking up the INL server again, though.  Nor will I be
>scheduling or playing for TWNN.
>But I'll play.  
>Oh, I'm such a wimp.

    A car is the perfect reason to Netrek.  The distance between the lab
and home seem negligible.  Try getting rid of the car and see if you can
manage with your "cold turkey".

    You know what else that helps?  Stop reading r.g.n. or the very least
install 'nn' and skip through lots of CMUvsUCB flame wars, among other things.

>-- 
>                                          rjones@dsd.es.com

    There must be a cure to Netrek-aholics.
--
!Rudy Amid              ///
a434amid@cdf.toronto.edu//
amid@r-node.gts.org   ///
Netrek/IRC: Radix  \\X//
From: rhodesia@wixer.cactus.org (Felix S. Gallo)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: ANNOUNCING Doorstop new hours
Date: 11 Oct 92 19:22:03 GMT
Followup-To: rec.games.netrek
Organization: Real/Time Communications

isae@IASTATE.EDU (ISU Boy !!!!!) writes:
> [ deleted ]
>-Rony
> p.s. If you find doorstop is closed, it likely means it's being used for
>      INL game(s). :)

Coming as this does after an article in which you state that you made
modifications to doorstop to allow SBs 9 updates per second, I sure
hope you aren't running the same server for INL games.
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Felix Sebastian Gallo                              rhodesia@wixer.cactus.org
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: botelle@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Justin Botelle)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Mucus vs Spaceace debate.....who really gives a rat's a**?
Date: 11 Oct 92 03:36:44 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

This definitely makes the top ten stupidity list.  It's always much worse
when you expect something somewhat clueful.

At least it wasn't quintiple spaced.

Justin
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: wang@cs.toronto.edu (Huaiqing Wang)
Subject: Re: Something seriously amiss
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto
Date: 14 Oct 92 14:00:05 GMT

In article <EeqvBhi00Vp08BZ2ZU@andrew.cmu.edu> "Timothy C. Worsley" <tw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>	Today I was watching over the shoulder of a player on bronco who had
>visable tractor beams.  I was suprized and told him that he never struck
>me at the sort to use a 'borg, even on 'borg night (Tuesdays on bronco).
> He informed me that the client was not a 'borg, and that it was blessed.
>	It seems that some player from Berkeley has written an blessed a client
>with -- among other things -- visible tractor beams, visible locks which
>show the direction or the lockee.  It is supposedly now the standard
>client at Berkeley.
>
>	I would just like to ask and make sure that this INFO-'BORG is not
>being used for INL play.  I would also suggest that this client be taken
>off of any FTP site that it is currently on an unblessed.  It is my
>understanding that it was written and blessed by the same person who
>hosed the net in the GB-GBO game this summer.  I doubt if there is
>anything that can be done to this person.
>
>DON'T FUCKING BLESS BORGS
>FUCK, WHY THE HELL DO YOU PLAY THE GAME that you have to have some
>advantage over your opponent?   Don't people realise that blessing and
>distibuting 'borgs waters the game down.  
>	If you have this 'borg, I ask you -- I beg you -- to throw it out.
>
>ZZnew guy

Calm down, I believe all of the *features* you mentioned above are included
in Tedd Hadley's client. Which have been blessed for a while now. It is
not a borg blessed by some junky, but a serious, legal client.

As for whether or not it gives people using it an advantage, that topic
is open for discussion.

	
	-- Chen Wang "What? I am using a blessed borg?"
From: mehlhaff@soda.Berkeley.EDU (ERic MeHlHaFf)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Eric Mehlhaff's new client
Date: 16 Oct 92 02:10:08
Organization: The Dis-Orginization
Distribution: US
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: bdhall@beggs.ecn.purdue.edu's message of Thu, 15 Oct 1992 16:45:58 GMT


In article <1992Oct15.164558.12860@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> bdhall@beggs.ecn.purdue.edu (Brian D Hall) writes:


     It is certainly NOT a borg.  I do have a question about it though.  The
   client is > 2X that of my current client (about 5 months old).  I cannot see
   any reason why there is such a discrepency in the size except that there are
   a few new bitmaps.  Were these enough to increase the binary's size from 212K

	   Eric:  If you send me the diffs, I can compile my own.

The entire source distribution, sans the packet logging (which isn't compiled into
any of the clients and is only useful in telling you just how much data's going over
your socket) is available from the OCF, with the rest of the clients.

As to why the sun4 binary is so huge?  static linking.  IT means that rather than
use the sun4 shared libraries, they were linked in at compile time.  I'll compile
a normal one soon.

ERic
--
ERic mehlhaff					Hoser at large
mehlhaff@soda.Berzerkeley.EDU
mehlhaff@ocf.berkeley.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: esj@cs.brown.edu (Eugene Santos Jr.)
Subject: Re: More dogfighting foo
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 18:01:48 GMT

In article <Bw3sGB.Hrv@news.iastate.edu> wyvern@iastate.edu (Nuno Bettencourt) writes:
>In article <Mequcwu00Vp08BZ10z@andrew.cmu.edu> "Timothy C. Worsley" <tw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>
>	Couldn't resist doing a followup...
>	
>>	Is there anyone who thinks that dogfighting is a useful tactic if not
>>used to defend a planet?
>
>	I don't get it, how would anyone ever get any kills if there was
>no dogfighting? You really can't Ogg to get kills, that's usually only
>valuable for killing carriers. (heavy on the usually - no flames!) I guess I'm
>just pure dogfighter (being a tbird kinda guy) to question why everyone
>belittles dogfighting like they have been....

Am I wasting my time? Is no one reading?? There are zillions of other
ways to get kills. Read the (my) earlier posts.

I grimace at being ignored, but if my comments are that unfounded, at
least someone have the decency to tell me to SHUT-UP.

Flt. Capt. "Is anyone out there?" Limofel


uucp:	...!{ihnp4,decvax}!brunix!esj		Eugene Santos Jr.
bitnet:	esj@browncs.bitnet			PO Box 1910, Computer Science
arpa:	esj%cs.brown.edu@relay.cs.net		Brown University
csnet:	esj@cs.brown.edu			Providence, RI 02912
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek