HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Lawrence.Chen@f3002.n134.z1.fidonet.org (Lawrence Chen)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.math
Subject: Re: UseNet access in your classroom
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 92 11:12:00 PST
Organization: FidoNet node 1:134/3002 - Lunatic Haven BBS, Medicine Hat Alta

In a message dated 08 Oct 92  09:23:12, limited shell account - Roy Wood wrote:

 RW> From: rrwood@canrem.com (limited shell account - Roy Wood)
 RW> Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1992 23:22:13 GMT
 RW> Organization: Canada Remote Systems
 RW> Message-ID: <1992Oct07.232213.16296@canrem.com>
 RW> Newsgroups: k12.ed.math

 RW> I'm currently working on some Macintosh software with the goal of
 RW> providing UseNet access in the Mac lab at school, and I'm curious as to
 RW> whether anyone else has done something similar on other platforms.  I'd
 RW> like to hear how well the kids have taken to mail/news, and what sort of
 RW> pitfalls I'm likely to encounter (e.g. posting of obscene messages,
 RW> alt.binaries.pictures.erotica, etc.).

 RW> Just for those who are interested, I'm going to use UUPC as the uucp
 RW> agent for a server machine, and ToadNews as the news unbatcher/expirer. 
 RW> The kids will be able to use a program I'm writing to "log in" to the
 RW> server over AppleTalk, and then read/send mail and news.  For starters,
 RW> I'll introduce my computer classes to it and make it available
 RW> before/after school, but I hope I can eventually lure the non
 RW> -technophobes from English, History, etc. into getting involved with it.

Well, I used to carry k12net via USENET for the local area (city of Medicine Hat) schools.....along with a variety of other USENET groups....like rec.humor.funny, comp.risks, comp.newprod, misc.consumers.house, comp.sys.amiga.*, etc.

I found that reception was varied.  Those who were into computers caught on quickly and some even wrote messages.

The rest either lurked about for a few days and then stopped, or others didn't come back after the initial log on.

Part of the problem, could be that USENET is quite a big jump from what they can handle....since its quite a different structure from other types of BBSs.

The main thing I guess would be to get the students comfortable with USENET, before seeing how it works.

This is something that'll probably have to be done when we get an Internet connection for area schools....too bad k12net won't be a part of this.


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Internet: Lawrence.Chen@f3002.n134.z1.fidonet.org
From: Brian.Bridal@f49.n134.z1.fidonet.org (Brian Bridal)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.math
Subject: ooops
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 92 18:56:22 PST
Organization: FidoNet node 1:134/49 - The Student Exchang, Calgary Alta

heheh....I guess I was going mad!!!
 
I just found the elusive 'channel 2' with the help of local talent!
 
ttyl
 
brian


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Internet: Brian.Bridal@f49.n134.z1.fidonet.org
From: Sheila.King@f315.n103.z1.fidonet.org (Sheila King)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.math
Subject: HELP - NEED FORMULA      
Date: Fri, 09 Oct 92 21:19:00 PST
Organization: FidoNet node 1:103/315 - Castle of the Four , Diamond Bar CA

-> Does anyone know the formula to solve the following
-> equation:
->         3       2       1
->      A X  +  B X  +  C X + D = 0
->
-> please, e-mail me the answer ....

Walter,

looking briefly through my textbook from this summer _Differential
Equations: An Introduction_ by Daniel A. Marcus, I came up with the
following:

any third degree polynomial equation   x^3 + ax^2 + bx + c = 0

write in general  x^3 + ax^2 = -bx - c   and add the necessary terms to
each side of the equation in order to produce the perfect cube
 (x + a/3)^3

example:    x^3 - 3x^2 - 2 = 0
            x^3 - 3x^2     = 2
     x^3 - 3x^2 + 3x  - 1  = 2 + 3x - 1
           (x - 1)^3       = 3x + 1

Now, if we let q=x-1  we can re-write the above example as

             q^3  = 3(q+1) + 1
             q^3  = 3q + 4

You are now in a position to apply the following formula:

            q^3 = 3Aq + 2B
                             1/2  1/3                  1/2  1/3
        q = [ B + ( B^2 - A^3)   ]   + [ B - (B^2 - A^3)   ]

(Hope you understand my notation. It's a bit difficult to show cube root
and square root symbols here.)

Anyway, this formula will give you ONE solution to the equation. the
others can by found by using synthetic division and then applying the
quadratic formula to the resulting second-degree equation.

Hope this helps you.

Sheila
coming to you from Diamond Bar, CA (in Los Angeles County)
   

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Internet: Sheila.King@f315.n103.z1.fidonet.org
From: Carol.Hooper@f64.n381.z1.fidonet.org (Carol Hooper)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.math
Subject: re: Arbitrary Techniques?
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 92 08:10:00 PST
Organization: FidoNet node 1:381/64 - Academy K12 Net, El Paso TX

Can I jump in here?  I'm using team work for my MathMagic Problem 
Solving Project and have all my classes (7/8) working together.  They 
really are working, discussing, and getting into the problems being 
layed out in MathMagic (Special Project--Channel 2).  The incentive?  
Well, if everyone brings their individual duties (ex:  research and 
learn how to find the area of a square) then the whole team gets extra 
credit.  Of course, the fact that these kids are placing their team 
solutions on the K12NEt and going to receive international recognition 
for their work really makes them excited.  Also, they enjoy the fact 
that other 7/8 graders (all levels available, BTW) are solving the 
same problem in Australia, Taipei, Canada, the US.......it's all there,
 working in my classroom.....How about giving us a look?  Channel 2!  
MathMagic


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Internet: Carol.Hooper@f64.n381.z1.fidonet.org
From: Jim.Lagerquist@f80.n343.z1.fidonet.org (Jim Lagerquist)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.math
Subject: Geometry???
Date: Sun, 04 Oct 92 19:57:39 PST
Organization: FidoNet node 1:343/80 - Auburn Ed-Net, Auburn WA

I have a few questions for any high school geometry teachers that may be out there.  My son is a sophmore taking geometry for the first time.  He has always done very well in school, including elementary and junior high  math (he took pre-algebra and algebra in 8th and 9th grade).  At this time, he is struggling with geometry.  He does complete all of his assignments but takes 


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uucp: uunet!m2xenix!puddle!343!80!Jim.Lagerquist
Internet: Jim.Lagerquist@f80.n343.z1.fidonet.org
From: Mary.Darling@f540.n226.z1.fidonet.org (Mary Darling)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.math
Subject: help - need formula
Date: Fri, 09 Oct 92 07:59:00 PST
Organization: FidoNet node 1:226/540 - The Tele-Forum Netw, Columbus OH

-> From: wam@nynexst.com (Walter A. Manrique)
-> Date: Thu, 8 Oct 92 15:54:27 GMT
-> Organization: NYNEX Science & Technology, Inc.
-> Message-ID: <1992Oct8.155427.238@nynexst.com>
-> Newsgroups: k12.ed.math
->
-> Does anyone know the formula to solve the following
-> equation:
->           3       2       1
->        A X  +  B X  +  C X + D = 0
->
-> please, e-mail me the answer ....
->
-> Walter


The formula is known as Cardan's formulas published around 1545 in "Ars
Magna".  The complete formula sequence(without proof) can be found in
the college textbook for precalculus by Demana and Waits, Addison
Wesley Publishers 1990 on pages 90 and 91.
  ORIGIN-New Albany H/S Eagle's Echo BBS(New Albany, Ohio)



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uucp: uunet!m2xenix!puddle!226!540!Mary.Darling
Internet: Mary.Darling@f540.n226.z1.fidonet.org
From: Howard.Hansen@f101.n285.z1.fidonet.org (Howard Hansen)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.math
Subject: Pedagogy Vs. content?
Date: Mon, 05 Oct 92 23:01:00 PST
Organization: FidoNet node 1:285/101 - NE Dept. Education, Lincoln NE

Dear "All",

Back in September, I asked teachers to respond to the question:
"When you think of yourself in terms of your occupation would you
describe yourself as:

A.  A mathematician who has some ability to communicate and teach
    mathematics.
-OR-
B.  A teacher who has some ability with mathematics."

Of the 9 people who responded 7 described themselves as "B".  One person
described themselves as "A" and one person described themselves as "B",
but hedged and indicated that with more coursework they had potential to
be a mathematician.

So, why did I ask the question?  I am very interested in the subject
matter preparation of mathematics teachers and the problems which appear
to arise from the traditional separation of content and pedagogy.  There
has come to be a perception that knowledge about mathematics and
knowledge about teaching form some sort of dichotomy.  One is sometimes
left with the impression that knowledge about _how_ to teach can somehow
be separated from _what_ one teaches.  I would suggest that the best
mathematics teachers are those who "practice what the preach", i.e. they
are mathematicians and spend some of their precious time actively doing
mathematics which interests them--and I do not mean working problems in
the next unit they plan to teach.  On the other hand, those
mathematicians at the college and university level need to spend some of
their precious time thinking about the best ways to represent
mathematics, how mathematics is learned and constructed.  Knowledge does
not exist as some separate, objective entity outside the social milieu.
As Paul Cobb (and others, most notably Lev Vygotsky) has said "...what
we call objective mathematical knowledge can be profitably viewed as the
product of taken-to-be-shared or normative activity, where activity
includes both conceptual acts (i.e. thinking) and observable, physical
or sensory-motor acts."  Mathematics is a way of thinking.  I suspect
that professors of high mathematical ability reason so rapidly and
tacitly that they are unaware of the complex pattern-recognition,
visualization, and heuristics they are using and thus when describing
their thinking rely on an overt product of that thinking--an efficient
and effective procedure.  They need to tune in to the process they go
through if they are to teach effectively.  In summary, as Harvey Keynes
put it--"We must have a K-12 mathematics teaching staff with a
discipline-based approach to education and a collegiate or university
mathematics faculty with an education-based approach to the
discipline."
Howard--H^2
I'm an A trying to improve my teaching.
  SLMR 2.1  Just what you needed...another stupid tagline.


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Internet: Howard.Hansen@f101.n285.z1.fidonet.org
From: bverbeke@vdoe386.vak12ed.edu (Brandon S. Verbeke)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.math
Subject: Re: help - need formula
Date: 16 Oct 92 03:34:58 GMT
Organization: Virginia's Public Education Network (Richmond)

Do you know how to do synthetic division?  I will try to show
you how to set it up here-

1) You take the coefficients (A,B,C,and D) and write them in a
line-  like so-

	A  B  C  D

2) Then you look for the bounds (both upper and lower) by doing
the following- Take the coefficient of the cubed term (a) and
make a list of ALL of its factors.  Then do the same with the
constant term (d).  Then you divide each factor of A by each
factor of B.  This will give you the list of possible RATIONAL
roots.  Then you pick one , and put it in a box beside you
coefficients in the synthetic division setup-

  F| A B C D
  -|_________
Do
Then you bring A down below the bottom line, and multiply it by
F (the factor) that value (call it X) then goes below B. You
add X to B, and place it below the li under B . Multiply then
add,  until you have gone all the way thru D.

OK, now when the sums at the bottom alternate as positive and
negative, it is the lower bound.  When they are all positive,
it is the upper bound.  Once you have both, you take all the
values of the possible rational roots that are between the
upper and lower bound, and use synthetic division with them.
If the final sum at the end of the problem is 0, then the
number is a root.  Then you take the remaining sums at the
bottom and use them as coefficies for a quadratic.

Now, an example:   3     2   
		 4x +  2x + x +8

First, I am not sure of the roots of this equation, so you will
see me do my work here.

Factorsof A: +/-1,+/-2,+/-4
Factros of D: +/-1,+/-2,+/-4,+/-8

Possible rational roots: 1, -1, 2, -2, 4, -4, 1/2, -1/2, 1/4,
-1/4

Synthetic division:

1 | 4 2 1 8
      4 6 7
  _________
    4 6	7 15 <-- since these are all positive, all rational
roots are below 1.

-4 | 4   2   1   8
       -16  56   -
     ______________
     4 -14 57 - <-- This will obviosly be neg, so -4 is a lower
bound.

Ok, I'm running out of time, but if you can see what I am doing
here, you should be able to figure it out.  Good Luck!

P.S.- consult a textbook or a math teacher for a more in-depth
explanation of synthetic division.
From: Clovis.Lacerda@f0.n80.z4.fidonet.org (Clovis Lacerda)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.math
Subject: Math Curiculum change
Date: 15 Oct 92 15:17:02 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 4:80/0 - Rede Brazil, Brazil

Hi, Back again!

WS=>I've been teaching mathematics at the advanced high school
WS=>level(AP Calculus, Pre-Calculus) for over ten yrs. and find

The other Math teacher, who is in charge with one calculus class, had to start
 from the first beginning, and is now trying her best to make students work
 with linear equations!  In a Calculus class, with students that "passed" the
 previous courses with their B's and A's, I am sure something is wrong. 
Clovis


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Internet: Clovis.Lacerda@f0.n80.z4.fidonet.org
From: Clovis.Lacerda@f0.n80.z4.fidonet.org (Clovis Lacerda)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.math
Subject: Math Curiculum change
Date: 15 Oct 92 14:22:01 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 4:80/0 - Rede Brazil, Brazil

Hi,

WS=>I've been teaching mathematics at the advanced high school
WS=>level(AP Calculus, Pre-Calculus) for over ten yrs. and find
WS=>that you are correct in your assessment. I've always thought
WS=>that you must teach the Algebras (I & II) back to back or
WS=>you'll get the learning gap you described. My hope and
WS=>suggestion to administrators is to check the research like
WS=>your letter and realize that changes must be done for the
WS=>good of our students.

I am very happy to hear some support. I also teach Calculus, Analysis at
 School. It is obvious what researchers have been finding out about Education.
 It is falling apart.  President Bush has established his 5 goals, but I think
 it will be very hard to reach.  I wouldn't care if the level were falling
 down, but this is reflecting in the academic performance at the Universities.
 It is affecting the jobs, production, everything.  I have been reading
 about many many explanations why Eastern children are better in Math and
 Science than westerns.  The type of alphabet, that forces the use of both
 parts of the brain, etc, but I am sure that nothing can explain part of our
 social irresponsability with what is beeing done.  It was not the eastern
 countries that made man go to the moon, but the hard work and the "revolution"
 that was done back in the 50's and 60's. If we take a look at the text books
 used by that time and compare with today's, we can understand things better. 
Clovis Lacerda


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Internet: Clovis.Lacerda@f0.n80.z4.fidonet.org
From: Clovis.Lacerda@f0.n80.z4.fidonet.org (Clovis Lacerda)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.math
Subject: Math Curiculum change
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 92 21:02:21 PST
Organization: FidoNet node 4:80/0 - Rede Brazil, Brazil

Good Evening,

Let me introduce myself first. I teach Math at the American School of Recife, and, thanks to Janet Murray and Randy Bush, we are echoing these wonderful conferences. I guess we are the only one in Brazil, or do know of someone else? I am 26, majored in Electronic Engineering.

Well, our Schools is a member of SACS (Southern Association of Colleges and Schools) and they visited us this year for crediting renewal. I started teaching at EAR a year ago, and I  my background is completely brazilian. I noticed at once the great problem that was causing to our students the Math curriculum. Students would do fairly good in Algebra I, but due to old difficulties, the curriculum was not being fully covered. But after Algebra I, they take Geometry, which makes them have a big gap of one ye
ar until they start taking algebra again, now, Algebra II.  When I started, I had two Algebra II classes, and I must tell you, they drove me crazy! The weaknesses were great, they had forgotten almost everything, and the curriculum required that they had covered Algebra I completely..... I strongly suggested that this gap could never exist, and also that earlier Math classes should be stronger, so they could do a better Algebra I course. Geometry should be either given before Algebra I or after Algebra II.
 But the best choice I think would be giving Algebra I and Geometry at the same time, in a 2-year course (Algebra I + Geometry). Nothing was decided, because the curriculum could not be changed and become different than that in the USA. But this was one of our suggestions of improving, given to SACS. To my pleasure, SACS' reports said that we were in the right track, and the curriculum should be changed to overcome the problems we have been detecting.

I kindly ask you:

What is your oppinion?

What have you been doing about this?

Any suggestions?

Thanks  and nice to meet you.

Clovis Lacerda
EAR, Recife - Brazil


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Internet: Clovis.Lacerda@f0.n80.z4.fidonet.org
From: Ed.Kwasniewski@f240.n353.z1.fidonet.org (Ed Kwasniewski)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.math
Subject: REVISING GEOMETRY CURRICU
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 92 18:57:00 PST
Organization: FidoNet node 1:353/240 - The Polish Connecti, Westbank BC

On 09-28-92 Mary Darling wrote to Ed Kwasniewski... 
 
MD> I would certainly be interested in such an outline.  I just talked 
MD> with a representative from our State Dept. of Education today and she 
MD> assures me that your method of integration is going to be given the  
MD> "blessing" by the state superintendent. 
 
Sorry I've been so long in replying ... I'm just getting back to the 
computer after about two weeks I've had to spend on personal matters. 
If you're still interested in the curriculum info please send me a 
NETmail message with your address and I'll get something in the mail to 
you as ASAP. 
 
... OFFLINE 1.41 


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Internet: Ed.Kwasniewski@f240.n353.z1.fidonet.org
From: Howard.Hansen@f101.n285.z1.fidonet.org (Howard Hansen)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.math
Subject: Memorizing Multiplicat
Date: Mon, 05 Oct 92 23:35:00 PST
Organization: FidoNet node 1:285/101 - NE Dept. Education, Lincoln NE

Cameron Smith writes in response to David Picard:

CS>I still recommend teaching the products first and only afterward
CS>teaching the tricks.  IMHO the students are in a better position
CS>to learn tricks and observe patterns (and think about *why* they
CS>work) after they are completely confident that they can get the
CS>right answers without the tricks.  A student who KNOWS all the
CS>products of 9 with other digits is then in a position to write out
CS>the list (for himself) and stare at it and perhaps DISCOVER a
....Lots of stuff deleted...

It seems one should teach the concept of multiplication before teaching
the products.  You seem to imply that teaching the rules and memorizing
the facts should precede understanding of the operation.  Like many
others you seem to think that once students have internalized and
memorized some efficient rules and procedures that understanding will
somehow arise by means of some as yet unidentified and seemingly
miraculous process.  Nothing could be further from the truth.
Memorization of the products should only occur _after_ the child
demonstrates understanding, e.g. when given the product 3*2 is able to
model it as an array of 3 rows of 2 objects or the joining of 3 sets of
2 objects and also when given a rectangular array is able to
symbolize it as 3*2 (this is not meant to be an exclusive list, but some
indicators of understanding).  When drill is used, it should be made
clear to the child that the practice is only being used to help them
with recall and retention, not to test whether they KNOW their basic
facts.

Howard aka H^2

  SLMR 2.1  This tagline stolen by Silly Little Mail Reader!


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From: cb919@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike Bolduan)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.math
Subject: Re: help - need formula
Date: 8 Oct 1992 23:12:33 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


If you want a way to get "an answer" to a SPECIFIC cubic which is
accurate to a great many decimal places, then use a graphing
calculator or computer grapher to graph the appropriate equation
and zoom in on the x-interecepts until you have enough
accuracy.
On the other hand if you want a GENERAL formula to solve ALL cubics
(i.e., one in terms of A, B, C and D, then I would point you
toward some historical research -- you will want to look up
Giralmo Cardano (16th century) and his cubic formula. It is not
a pretty sight and certainly is never used ijn any practical sense.
It is moistly interesting for the story that goes with it -- which
I will let you find for yourself. Then you can move on to the
formula for the general FOURTH degree equation.....
(and I am cerytainly glad you did not ask for a formula for a
FIFTH degree equation....)
Perhaps you should have specified exactly what you had in mind
when you asked for a "solution" formula. 
I believe you can find both the cubic and the quartic foirmulas
in Heinrich Teitze's book Famous Problems of Mathematics.
(Oops, that shouold be Tietze)

mike bolduan
bolduan@catlin    on bitnet
bolduan@catseq.catl;in.edu   on internet

p.s. -- this wouldn't have been for a homework assignment would it??? :-)
-- 
mike bolduan
bolduan@catlin
From: Carol.Hooper@f64.n381.z1.fidonet.org (Carol Hooper)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.math
Subject: re: ooops
Date: Thu, 08 Oct 92 12:12:02 PST
Organization: FidoNet node 1:381/64 - Academy K12 Net, El Paso TX

Wow...answered you before I found this!  Congrats!  You are now 
involved!  Now, please read through and let me know if you find the 
messages and the problems for the first problem cycle!  Thanks!


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uucp: uunet!m2xenix!puddle!381!64!Carol.Hooper
Internet: Carol.Hooper@f64.n381.z1.fidonet.org
From: Howard.Hansen@f101.n285.z1.fidonet.org (Howard Hansen)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.math
Subject: Memorizing Multiplicat
Date: Mon, 05 Oct 92 23:10:00 PST
Organization: FidoNet node 1:285/101 - NE Dept. Education, Lincoln NE

Dear Brian,

Are you the same Brian Harvey who works with LOGO and I believe wrote a
PC version or am I thinking of someone else?
Anyway, nice to meet you, and I definitely agree with what I perceive as
your position about memorizing facts.  I believe, however that there is
a place for some drill and practice over the facts, but only _after_
understanding is achieved.  When drill is done it should be clearly and
explicitly stated to children that they are drilling only to help their
recall and retention, not their understanding.

Howard
  SLMR 2.1  I'm in shape ... round's a shape isn't it?


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Newsgroups: k12.ed.math
From: tahsin@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (Tahsin I. Alam)
Subject: Re: Geometry???
Organization: Brandeis University
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 06:45:56 GMT


Hi:

Is there any algorithm or any research paper on calculating volumes of
n-dimensional convex polyhedra? Any info would help.

I would appreciate it if you could send the reply directly to me at
the following address:

tahsin@cs.brandeis.edu

Thanx,
Tahsin I. Alam
-- 
ma'as-salama (Goodbye in Arabic, literally "With peace ... ")
Tahsin I. Alam
e-mail:
	tahsin@cs.brandeis.edu