From: partha@mse.ogi.edu (R. Parthasarathy)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
Subject: Re: I HATE TAMILS..
Date: 19 Aug 92 17:06:53 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.41660
Distribution: world
Organization: Oregon Graduate Institute, Material Science & Engineering

Siva Prasad wirtes:

>In article <41552@ogicse.ogi.edu>, partha@mse.cse.ogi.edu (R. Parthasarathy)
writes:
>>
>> is right or wrong is to be discussed later. No, Tamils are not the ones

>I find it very irritating that people blame Andhra Pradesh for being

	Let me clarify here that no one is blaming Andhra Pradesh for
all problems. The gist of my message is DON'T BLAME THE TAMILS FOR
LINGUISTIC DIVISION. WE DIDN'T START THAT. If not Telugus it was somebody
else. NOT THE TAMILS. See how it pinches when blamed. That's what I was
pointing out to some gentleman who came forward to put forth "others'
perspective".

>Before the formation of the linguistic state of Andhra Pradesh, Madras

	[stuff deleted..]

>All the administrative machinery was run in English, and *Tamil*. A common
>person from interior Andhra, who had to deal with the administration
>day in and day out, it was quite irritating to have everything done in
		     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>a language which is *alien* to him. My own grandfather, was a victim of
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>such a situation. 

	That is precisely the reason why Tamils are irritated with Hindi.
We don't want to face the same situation like your grandpa did, just
because it suits somebody else.

>don't you see the grave
>administrative injustice that would have been meted out to common folk,
>*other* than Tamils in the erstwhile Madras presidency?? 

	I see it crystal clear. Aren't you glad that an "alien" language
like Tamil was taken off the administrative matters? We feel that bringing
Hindi without the will of the people will do the same thing to us Tamils.

>Secondly, I find it offensive to equate Potti Sriramulu to EVR. EVR
>demanded a **separate and independent** nation consisting of present
>4 south indian states, with his screwed-up idea of Dravidians and non
>Dravidians, quite conveniently ignoring the commonality of Indianness
>between us. Potti demanded a separate linguistic *state*, which is to
>be still a *part of the Indian union* and NOT independence. To say
>Potti's call for a separate identity of Telugus in the form of a 
>linguistic state and EVR's call for secession (not unlike present day
>Kashmiris) are one and the same, is an *insult* to all Telugus and
>Potti's patriotism.

	We are taking off tangential here. Sorry if my mention of Potti
Sriramulu brought your sentiments up. But I was not equating him with EVR.
I have no respect for EVR either. Bring your lenses closer to see what's
going on in Tamil Nadu. If you don't care, then do not assume that all
Tamils are EVR worshippers.

>Mr. Parthasarathy, you will be quite surprised if I tell you that if
>you ask something in Hindi in interior Andhra, you *won't* be getting
>a blank stare. My experience is limited to some West Godavari's small
>towns, but people there are not so ignorant about Hindi. Any school
>kid can answer back in Hindi, albeit with a text-book language and
>very bad grammar, but successful in getting the idea across. If you
>think that this has somehow diluted our Telugu culture or infer that
>we do not appreciate our language that much, you must be mistaken.

	With due respects, you are free to know as many languages as
you want. But let your neighbours judge for themselves. See how an
ignorant remark by me can irritate you so much? That was precisely
the same thing I was pointing out my fellow country men from up north.
I have lived in Andra Pradesh too. I used to speak Telugu fluently once.
It's a pity that I've lost my touch with it. Any way, the importance
of learning a language or converting to a religion etc should be left
to the judgement of the individuals. Our country, no matter what we do
is not going to benefit from making all Tamils learn Hindi compulsorily.
We already have several schemes in our nation for the benefit of the
nation and none of them seem to be working allright. Dragging the language
issue this way is not going to bring co-operation from a group of people.
It is going to alienate them more. Do you know what happened in the
erstwhile East Pakistan when Urdu was imposed on them? People seem to
be ignorant about sentiments and pride. 

>Learning Hindi language continues right upto 10th std. after which it
>is optional for you take *any* language, but must choose atleast one.
>You get to choose a *first* language, *second* language and a *third* 
>language (Telugu, Hindi and English in my case). The emphasis on the 
>first language is *quite* heavy compared to second and third languages.
>[Well, English was also my medium of instruction, so the std. of 
>English taught was comparable to Telugu. But if your medium of
>instruction is Telugu, this needn't be the case] Quite often, the 
>tenth std. book of the second language is the same as fifth std. book 
>of the first language. If you choose Telugu and Hindi in that order, 
>in your 10th std. you will be learning as much Hindi as a person 5 
>years jr. to you is learning in Hindi heartland, for a comparison. 
>Contrast this with the complete do away of Hindi if one chooses to, 
>as in TN. Placing emphasis on one's own language and learning of 
>another language (Hindi) need not be mutually exclusive as TN 
>administrators seem to think. I for one, am extremly happy with the
>present education policy in AP.
> 
	I am not going to go through the problems that we already have
in TN. I also know that you don't care. If you want to learn Hindi
on your own be my guest. But don't tell me what's good for me. I as
well as all my fellow Tamilians are doing well in our pursuits and we
haven't gone to the dogs because we refuse to jump into the Hindi
bandwagon. I know Hindi too, for your kind information. For the people
up north, no matter how much of Hindi you learn, you are still a Madrasi
with clumsy habits, unless you change your entire attire and look 
down upon fellow southies.

>> I am getting tired of these views. When will it all end?
>> 
>> Partha sarathy

>	Tired of different opinions than yours eh?

	No sir, I don't think you get the point. Sentiments are whipped
up in Tamilians because of the feeling of being looked at with ignorance
and arrogance. We are not given our due respect and stature in our nation.
Hindi seems to symbolize that. Hence that much of aversion towards anything
that symbolizes that ignorance and arrogance. I once heard a fellow from
Delhi tell an American that all south Indian languages are very similar
and came from Sanskrit. No Indian language, according to him had an
origin other than from Sanskrit. Such gems of statements aren't worth
arguing about. Because, as long as one is adamant about his views no one
can put forth convincing points. 

	In Tamil Nadu, we are seeing people feeling inferior by conversing
in their own mother tongue, especially in cities. Tamils who have migrated
up north (especially the second generation ones) don't seem to appreciate
their heritage. Sure there are exceptions. However, that's how I as well
as many of my friends have seen and felt. Chauvinists have got into the
middle and messed up things further. 

	In your state you guys are tolerant towards Hindi because somehow
through centuries of Muslim rule, Hindi has seeped in and now you don't
realize that it was "imposed" recently. This is akin to English in TN.
We are not that averse to English because it has already got into our
set up. If English was not in use until now and if someone suddenly
made it compulsory for us to learn it because it is convinient for some
urban folk who deal with English, that would have aroused a resistance.

	In the end, we are doing well without Hindi already. No thanks,
we don't like it shoved down our throat. If a few individuals from TN
have to go up north to eke out a livelihood, they will without fail
learn spoken Hindi on their own. We'd like to advise the same for our
fellow countrymen from up north - if you come down to TN, either know 
some rudimentary English or learn some Tamil. Don't blame the people
of TN for not providing convinience to ignorant people. This "Madras
is a godforsaken place, Roti miltha nahin hai udhar" attitude sucks.

>	Siva Prasad.				vprasad@uoft02.utoledo.edu

	Partha sarathy

NB: Apologies to everyone if I've hurt your feelings.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil