HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman)
Subject: Re: Pennsic Openness
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 19:10:58 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

Greetings from Arval!  Bertram wrote:

> In the "old days" -- my first War was Pennsic VI -- almost all camps save
> for the Dark Horde's were "open" in that there were few ropes and folks
> "passing through" were hailed with friendly greetings rather than "What
> are you doing in OUR camp?"  

I look at this a very different way.  One of the things that makes Pennsic
work for me is that feudal affiliations actually means something:
Households, shires, baronies, camped together, are visible for once, all at
the same time.  My camp is my home, and in my home I can be the great lord
that I want to be: receiving guests, hosting parties, giving largesse.
When someone wanders through my camp, he is violating my home.  He need
only do so much as give greetings and ask permission to pass through, and I
will always happily give it, but I think it a basic courtesy for him to
ask.  Anyone is welcome in my camp, but I hope that in return for my
hospitality they have the courtesy to ask before entering.

Part of what you have observed, Bertram, is undoubtedly just a fucntion of
size.  Even when Pennsic attracted only two or three thousand people, an
active SCAdian could expect to know most of them by sight and many by name.
That's no longer possible.

That said, I should add that I found the number of camps with opaque walls
somewhat disconcerting.  I haven't decided whether or not I am bothered by
it, but it doesn't feel quite right to me.

===========================================================================
Arval Benicoeur                                       mittle@watson.ibm.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: ilaine@panix.com (Liz Stokes)
Subject: Re: ancient kilt; fabric width
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 23:40:05 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix & Internet, NYC

In article <1992Aug26.115327.6581@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> carl@silver.lcs.mit.edu (Alexander of Kiev (mka Carl Alexander)) writes:

>Could someone possibly recommend a book for those of us who are 
>interested in learning more about period fabrics, but not necessarily 
>in becoming spinners and/or weavers, that would (among other things) 
>provide definitions of such terms as: twill, herringbone, broken 
>diamond, warp-weighted loom, harness, shed, four shaft twill, shed 
>stick, tabby, etc?  I know what some of these terms mean, but am 
>quite frankly lost in this discussion, and would like not to be.

	I wish there were a book on 'medieval fabrics and weaving techniques
for beginners'. There are tons of beginning weaving books which will explain
all the terms above. I don't know nearly as much as I would like to about
medieval and later English wool processes, and I had to pick it up here and
there. Patricia Baines has 2 good books _Spinning Wheels, Spinners and 
Spinning_ has tons of good info about the development of the spinning wheel
but very little about weaving. I just got _Linen, Handspinning and Weaving_
at Pennsic, and I learned a lot about medieval linen spinning on the hand
spindle (it wasn't free swinging, it was twiddled in the fingers!) and it
describes the Egyptian ground loom, and Indian pit loom, but nothing about
Medeeval European linen weaving (sigh). Another book I picked up at
Pennsic which explains lots of cool stuff is the Shire Archaeology booklet 56
_Textiles in Archaeology_ by John Peter Wild. It has a good photo of a woman
weaving on a reconstructed warp-weighted loom in Denmark. The book is largely
about iron age fabrics, but some things just didn't change at all.
	I highly recommend Nicolette Bonhomme's class on period fabrics for
the non weaver (I can't remember the exact class title). She teaches regularly
at East Kingdom Universitys, and she tought it a couple of times this last
Pennsic, and probably will again.
					-Ilaine


-- 
Liz Stokes         | 	Subduing evil by dancing on a dwarf,
Ilaine de Cameron  | 	Nataraja, the lord of Dance, 
                   | 	bestows grace on the world.
ilaine@panix.com   |
From: ilaine@panix.com (Liz Stokes)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Edward Zifran of Gendy (was Re: Pennsic Land Allotment)
Date: 30 Aug 92 02:37:51 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix & Internet, NYC

In article <1288@niktow.canisius.edu> salley@niktow.canisius.edu (David Salley) writes:
>[...] After the 
>howls of laughter died down and the unit regained their composure, one of the 
>fighters took me aside and explained that only his closest friends refer to 
>him as Fast Eddie to his face.  Oooops!      
>                                                       - Dagonell

	According to his lady, he hates the name 'Eddy', at Pennsic, she
was referring to him as 'Rapid Edward' (but you didn't hear that from me!)
	-Ilaine

-- 
Liz Stokes         | 	Subduing evil by dancing on a dwarf,
Ilaine de Cameron  | 	Nataraja, the lord of Dance, 
                   | 	bestows grace on the world.
ilaine@panix.com   | 
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: nomad@castle.org (Lee Damon)
Subject: Re: Pennsic Update (End)
Organization: The Castle, not-yet-Public Access Un*x Systems; Peekskill, NY
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 01:14:54 GMT

In article <714812436.F00001@blkcat.UUCP> Bob.Upson@f333.n142.z1.fidonet.org (Bob Upson) writes:
> 
>Your honor is intact, good gentle, no insult was intended nor offered.
> 

Good my lord, I thank you for your clearification and appology, 'twas
most excellently given.

I, in turn, appologize to you for taking umbridge where no slight was
meant. I fear that in these trying modern times of "family values"
(a most devilish code word for bigotry) I have become sensatized
to the use of words that convey negative impressions. I hope that
this will in no way mark the respect we feel each for the other.

Humbly,

Christopher Thomas		mka Lee Damon
Northpass, EK			Peekskill, NY

(for those of you who will say that this should have gone via email,
I fear that it could not... it had to go the same way the original
message went, for it to be properly done.)
-- 
play: castle!nomad or nomad@castle.org                                 \
work: nomad@watson.ibm.com                  - Lee "nomad" Damon -       \
Seneschal; The Castle, Public Access Un*x Systems.                     / \
  - Unashamed -                                                       /   \
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mdewis@esk.compserv.utas.edu.au ( Mark Richard Dewis)
Subject: Wayfarer from Lochac
Organization: University of Tasmania at Launceston
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 92 23:10:19 GMT

Greetings from Richard of Dunheved!

I am posting for a freind, Ciaran Faoilchara (Derek Binns) who plans
to be wayfaring in the US and Europe next year, and wants to start
gathering contacts now so that he can correspond with them himself
well before he leaves (he does not have access to electronic mail
himself). He is looking at arriving in the States in about June/July
'93 and to be in Europe from about October through to December '93.

Anyone interested in hosting a nice, quiet Australian for these times,
could you please drop me a line via e-mail and I'll pass your offers 
on to Ciaran.

Thanks in advance!

-- Richard of Dunheved, Lochac.
-- 

mdewis@pieman.compserv.utas.edu.au ... but you can call me Richard.
Forma Propositum Perpetuo Praecedit. 
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman)
Subject: Re: safety for marshals 
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1992 17:53:28 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

Greetings from Arval!  Aldric wrote:


> and in another article, someone (bother! didn't save it) mentioned
> that small orange trianges are used and black and yellow spiraled
> staves for marshals....
> 
> ...so what else is used in the other laural kindoms and would it be
> possible to come up with some sort of 'standard' to be used
> everywhere?  and how hard would this be?

Why do we need a standard?  Currently, the system is fairly clear: Anyone
on the field who isn't in armor isn't a legal target.  Are there many cases
of marshalls and scouts being hit by fighters?  Is there really a problem
here to be solved?

===========================================================================
Arval Benicoeur                                       mittle@watson.ibm.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: vader@meryl.csd.uu.se (]ke Eldberg)
Subject: Re: SCA in Literature
Organization: University of Uppsala, Sweden
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 14:12:31 GMT

Greetings from William de Corbie.

Eilidh writes:

>Actually, I was 'recently' and pleasantly introduced to the Christopher
>Stasheff "Warlock" series (12 books, so I won't waste bandwidth listing
>them all) which sets up an entire planet of Society folk who escape the
>political collapse of Earth (Terra) and due to selective memory erasure
>and memory re-creation, they assume their well-thought out and happily
>used personas from SCA as their 'real' identities.

This reminds me of Julian May's "Exiles" series (4 books) where some
people escape the sad realities of a near-future world by travelling
50,000 years (or was it 500,000?) backward in time to the Pliocene
era. The SCA is not mentioned by name, but it is clear that many of
the exiles are anachronists who are planning to form a medieval
society in the past. They are in for BIG trouble, however.

William
From: christer@sue.komunity.se (Christer Romson)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: almost live steel.
Date: 28 Aug 92 10:41:35 GMT
Organization: The Internet
X-Unparsable-Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 12: 36 MET DST

>Or, I could send to you a copy of the information Hilary sent me.
>I posted it on the Rialto about two months ago.  Email me if you
>are interested.

I'm interested!
 ----------------------------  
  |\  | |   /|   | |\  \ | /   
  | \ | |  * |  /| | >  \|/    SCA: Lindorm Eriksson, Nordmark, Drachenw., East
  |   | |\   | / | |/    |     Mundane: Christer Romson, Stockholm, Sweden.
  |   | | \  |  /| |\    |     Email: christer@Sue.KOMunity.Se
  |   | |    | / | | \   |   
  |   | |    |   | |  \  |   
 ----------------------------
From: 0003900943@mcimail.COM (Marla Lecin)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: land allocations/hidden agendas?
Date: 27 Aug 92 21:21:00 GMT
Organization: The Internet

Greetings from Jessa d'Avondale!

Angharad, hold on a minute.  You're uncovering sub-texts and "hidden
agendas" that I just don't see.  

The discussion appears to be following these lines:

1) Discussion of fair and un-fair ways to allocate land

2) Various concerns that certain ways wouldn't be fair for people with:
children; large pavilions; set-ups that include kitchens, firepits, etc.

3) Someone's observation that it would be terrible if we couldn't have
period looking tents/encampments because of space requirements

4) Someone else's concern that people with large, period pavilions or
camp setups would get more space in their camp than those who didn't have
such arrangements, just because they were period style.

5) Various suggestions for how to average out the amount of space per person
in camp by camping with those who don't take up as much room.

Concern #4 did not necessarily contain a hidden agenda to get rid of period
pavilions, and certainly was not directed against you and Hossein!  (How
many of us even knew what kind of tent you had at Pennsic?)  There's nothing
wrong with 2 people using 150 sq ft for their tent.  My husband and I share
a 10 x 20 (non-period) tent, and had plenty of space left over for other
uses in our camp. 

No one would chastise you for how you use your remaining 320 sq ft, whether
you used it all yourself for a kitchen and a firepit, or whether you pooled
it with others to have a courtyard or an extra tent for a "living room". 
Our camp had a courtyard, and a Grimm's 16 x 24 tent in our camp - but we
had to have 16 people in our group to have enough room "pooled". 

I, also, wouldn't find it fair if a single person showed up with an 8 x 10
pavilion, a 10 x 10 kitchen tent, a 10 x 10 dining fly, and then needed to
dig a firepit to cook over (another 3' plus safety perimeter), and felt that
they should get this much room just because all their gear was of a period
style.  Just sharing one of the items with a friend would quickly bring them
down to the allocated limit. 

Once you start camping in any reasonably sized group, it is easy to fall
within the limits.  There just isn't enough room at Cooper's Lake for every
2 people to have their own kitchen, tent, canopy, courtyard and firepit. 

For those who do, the answer is to share a camp with some friends who do not
have so many things.  Not necessarily some strangers in a nylon dome tent -
how about a friend with a canvas pup tent who plans on taking their meals at
Saide's? 


--Jessa
From: Suze.Hammond@f56.n105.z1.therose.pdx.com (Suze Hammond)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: COVINGTON CROSS
Date: 27 Aug 92 05:52:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: therose.714969221.F00007

Ka>  From: kevin@isi.COM (Keradwc an Cai)
Ka>  Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Ka>
Ka>  Wolfhelm Bertoltz wrote:
Ka>
Ka>  > By the way, why not have all SCAdians write ABC
Ka>  > and ask for historical accountability?
Ka>
Ka>  Well, because not all SCAdians WATCH television. (I don't even OWN
Ka>  one, much less watch it. [What IS Covington Cross, anyway?])

A sort of sitcom in medieval drag. Fairly amusing if you look at it as such, 
and not gospel...  ;-)

Moreach 
 
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: schuldy@progress.COM (Mark Schuldenfrei)
Subject: Re: consort gender
Organization: Progress Software Corp.
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 15:24:22 GMT

ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com (Ailsa N.T. Murphy) writes:

Scott Hall writes:
  I think that same sex consorts might be considered under the ruling as swastika
  and pentagrams.  All three apperantly happened in period, but the support of
  which could hurt the SCA.

Ailsa wrote back:
  oh really?  the sca publically admitting that it has icky icky fags and dykes
  in it is too dangerous to do?  lovely.  luckily, some of us icky icky ones are
  too damned obvious to be swept under the rug.

  homophobia again rears its ugly head.  *bleah*

Slow down, Ailsa.  First of all, Scott is posting his own opinion, and is not
speaking for the SCA officially.

Second, you and I know very well, that being gay in America is often considered
a bad thing, and that many folks in the USA and the world are instinctively
against it.  If the SCA doesn't want to get that load of grief too, is that
a purely bad thing?  (I think it's a debatable thing, thank you, but I can
see both sides).

Third, the SCA is not corporately homophobic, and IMAO is pretty damn tolerant
of all sorts.  It is not perfectly tolerant, and all of it's members are
not tolerant, but it maintains a better than average level of decency IMO.

Ailsa, if you want to fight homophobia, do so.  I will to.  It's a pretty
big target, though, so there is no need to go firing off in all directions.

	Tibor (Well, mostly Mark)
--
Mark Schuldenfrei (schuldy@progress.com)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: ewright@convex.com (Edward V. Wright)
Subject: Re: COVINGTON CROSS
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 22:36:23 GMT
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

In <betel.714857475@camelot> betel@camelot.bradley.edu (Robert Crawford) writes:

>	All things considered, it wasn't that bad. It had a good
>story, and the costuming was nice. 

What exactly *is* Covington Cross?  I happended across it on 
television last night, and watched it for about 10 or 15 minutes, 
but is it a series, a miniseries, a movie of the week, what?

From what I saw, the script wasn't all that great.  The characters
were basically 20th-Century Americans, even though the story was
set in the Middle Ages.  It seemed to me that the writers had
meant the show to be a comedy -- a broad parody of nighttime soaps
such as Dallas and Falcon Crest -- but that someone forgot to tell
the actors that.  In short, I didn't see anything worth watching.

I can't agree with you about the costumes, either.

-- Nicholas van Leyden


Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: sbloch@silver.cs.umanitoba.ca (Stephen Bloch)
Subject: Re:  Pennsic Land Allocation
Organization: Computer Science, University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 20:48:22 GMT

whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt) writes:
>Perhaps it's time to drag out my old suggestion about how to allocate
>land at Pennsic . . .
>
>	Divide it in half.  Allocate each half to the King of one
>	of the belligerants.  Let each King divide it among his
>	allies and other forces.
> ...
>
>Allocate land the *Feudal* way!

Isn't this sorta the way it worked at PW XVII?  (Or was it XVIII?)
Except that, rather than each monarch distributing land, it was
whoever got to the site first with the longest ropes and the most
stakes.  I remember arriving, asking my Baron for camping space, and
being told "We'd love to have you, but we hold this land of Baron X
down the hill"; so I went on bended knee to Baron X in order to be
permitted to camp with Baron Y.  It felt period.  It also felt like it
had the potential for Serious Hard Feelings and Politics.

			     mar-Joshua ibn-Eleazar ha-Shalib
-- 
					Stephen Bloch
				sbloch@silver.cs.umanitoba.ca
From: Suze.Hammond@f56.n105.z1.therose.pdx.com (Suze Hammond)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: almost live steel
Date: 27 Aug 92 04:37:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: therose.715002416.F00002

SS>  From: sharons@juliet.ll.mit.EDU (Sharon Stanfill)
SS>  Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
SS>
SS>     Well...when I was young and foolish, I was in Markland, which
SS>  at that point did lots of demos with "almost live steel" - various
SS>  weapons made of metal with very, very dull edges.  Demos were
SS>  choreographed and one had to be "steel-qualified" to be in them.

SS>  probably not at all safe.  I was very carefull about who I would
SS>  work with, but now I look back at my old shield with the nocks
SS>  from dull blades and wonder about my sanity.

SS>  were not particularly large or strong and were trying not to
SS>  swing very hard.
SS>
SS>  Nesta ferch Meriadoc Hartley

Heed the words of Nesta!

I keep my sword quite dull, by design. (It doesn't get in as much trouble 
when left alone..  ;-) It is, however, well made, of good steel, and has a 
fair amount of heft.

I use it, in this condition, to cut brush. It has been used in emergency to 
*chop wood*, as it is only little duller than the average (un-kept-up) axe.

(I once, while horsing around "impressing" a mundane friend, managed to bury 
the edge 3/4 of an inch deep in one of my porch pillars.)

Think on't, those of you who own a sword (yay, even those not fighters). 
The edge of the blade is a wedge, and acts upon the same principle as an axe 
or hatchet. When asked by SCAdians what I would do if I "needed" it, and me 
keeping it so dull........

I reply "Break Bones!"

Moreach NicMaolain
email to: trifid@agora.rain.com 
 
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: UCCXDEM <UCCXDEM@MVS.UCC.OKSTATE.EDU>
Subject: Re: bunny round and other weird words
Organization: Oklahoma State University Computer Center
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 21:23:00 GMT

>
>In article <180cihINN2vv@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> bq434@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael A. Chance) writes:
>)In a previous article, T. Archer says (commenting on Sir Otto's quote):
>
>)>>How about "port-a-fort" for a _large_ shield.
>
>)>Also known as the "Meridian WarDoor."
>
>)And known in Ansteorra as a "small tourney shield". 8-)
>
>)Mikjal Annarbjorn
>)(who left Ansteorra just after he discovered that most of his opponent's
>)shields were bigger than he is - you can't hit what you can't see! 8-)
>
>        Sure there is.  The tactic was first described to me as (then)
>Earl Lloyd von Acker's fighting style (Lloyd is not excessively tall):
>
>You just climb up the face of the shield, sit on top of it and beat them
>about the head and shoulders until they fall down.
>
>It certainly seemed to work for him...
>
>Kwellend-Njal
>--
>Vnend, Lottery winner #316                 Ignorance is the mother of adventure.
>vnend@princeton.edu, vnend@pucc.bitnet, or {backbone}!princeton!nudity!vnend
>        Anonymous posting service (NO FLAMES!):vnend@ms.uky.edu
>             "So, anything to excess leads to cancer." "Right."                                   "No wonder the Romans died so young."
>
 Yes, Duke Lloyd has went on to climb bigger shields. And BTW, in
Ansteorra, the larger shields are referred as 'Barn Doors'. This is
a little humorous, because everyone can hit the side of a Barn. ( Our
newest knight is named Sir Barn.) A side effect of using the larger
shields is our fighters learn to exercise better shot placement to
get through that 2 inch slot.
                         Herr Marke   Mooneschadowe,Ansteorra
From: Bob.Upson@f333.n142.z1.fidonet.org (Bob Upson)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Grand Pennsic
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1992 13:23:00 -0500

> Well, "constabulary action" was indisputably silly.  But Pennsic has
> NEVER, to my knowledge, resembled a medieval war.  In the beginning it
> resembled a mass tourney, and now it more resembles a festival with a
> mass tourney as one of the traditional events.  This is not a matter
> of 20th-century political correctness but one of historical accuracy.
 
I'd rather 'fix' the war than change the name...

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: PA142548@utkvm1.utk.edu (T. Archer)
Subject: Pensic Snit
Organization: University of Tennessee Division of Continuing Education
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 14:10:48 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.215233.11621@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca> kenm@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca (...Jose) writes:
>	Amongst we nubies (I've been in the SCA for less than 1.5 years),
>traditions of "war" at Pennsic are easily erased.  Two mundane cases for
>comparison are the introductions of the new Canadian flag in 1966 and the
>conversion to metric in the 70's: both raised such a hew and cry, you'd
>think that the world was coming to and end.... but now, less than a generation
>later, my peers and I live in a world were the new flag and metric are
>just facts of life.  So, in time, would the "Pennsic Tournment/Fair" 
>become a fact of life, and the idea of the "War" just a convinient thoughh
>historical term, only dear to those living in the past (OK, poor choice
>of cliche).
>

Gentle Lord,
I am old within the Society, and have never had the means to travel to the 
Pensic War.  I am grieved that now the tradition based on Cariodoc's actions 
has been case into the gutter to lie among the weeds.  I shall never see a 
Pensic War.

The War and our other traditions are a link to our past that many of us 
oldtimers are lothe to lose.

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca