From: keith@ksmith.uucp (Keith Smith)
Subject: Re: IBM AS/400 is the world's slowest computer
Organization: Keith's Computer, Hope Mills, NC
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 16:42:47 GMT
Followup-To: comp.misc

In article <1992Dec21.141558.18626@rchland.ibm.com> cecchi@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (Del Cecchi) writes:
>In article <1992Dec20.221103.13995@ksmith.uucp>, keith@ksmith.uucp (Keith Smith) writes:
>|> In article <1992Dec18.165950.15013@webo.dg.com> lewine@cheshirecat.webo.dg.com writes:
>|> >IBM is currently running full-page Ads that claim "The AS/400
>|> >is the world's most powerfull computer with the industry's best
>|> >price/performance(*)"
>|> If you own one, pray no one nukes the New England plant where all 100 or
>|> so people that know AS/400 internals work.
>
>New England?.  Gee I always thought Minnesota was considered part of the Midwest.
> The AS/400 is developed in Rochester MINNESOTA.  And we have a few more than 100
>people out here on the tundra doing development.  

Oh, Wow,  You'd never guess I wasen't a geography major.  Ah soo, not NY
but Minnesota ...  Well,  It's still too d*mn cold up there :) :) :)!

SYSTEM development?  Low level stuff?

>
>I take it you don't like RPG? :-).   Talking about B series models when the
>current machines are E  or something like that is also sort of a cheap shot also.
> So How does that 486 run when you put 10 or 20 users on it doing order entry?.  

I've had 15 people doing Sales order entry on a 386/16DX with SCO Xenix
under a BBx (Interpeted Business BASIC).  Order entry is CHEAP.  The
*REAL* question is how EITHER of them run with 10 people doing DIFFERENT
sorts on the *SAME* rather large database file.  I have no basis for
comparison on a '400, but 3 Simultaneous sorts of our 100MB Customer
File results in a noticeable slowdown of the system, Nothing terrible,
but very noticeable.  I do have the FFS disk buffers tuned down in the
2-4MB range, as I (<grin>) am more concerned with enough RAM to Compile
quickly. 

We bought the B model brand new a little over 3 years ago.  C's came out
the following spring, E's are a recent inovation.  Prices on the whole
line have been dropping like a rock.  We dumped early this year when we
looked at the cost of upgrading it to something a little more useable.

RPG is fine.  It's the IBM MIS folks that drive me crazy.  I'd have
trouble coming up with a language much better for creating a simple
report, or doing a simple file filter.  But I constantly see programs
where every single line of code is conditioned by an indicator.  GAG!

OCL is ok too! It's CL that sucks.  Compiling Control Language is
idiotic.  CL Syntax is pitiful.  The manuals make the syntax clear as
mud.  You provide menu's and forms everywhere, but then make the CL
syntax so verbose and complex that you *HAVE* to use the menu or command
form for even the most simple of tasks because of the myriad of required
options. The screen at a time oriented nature of the machine makes it damn
near impossible with the provided tools to implement a reasonable text
editor.  SEU is, well, SEU.  IBM's solution is to buy ANOTHER computer
and PC support to get the job done.  Swell. Text Processing is cheap in
terms of computer resource.

The storage structure of the machine is kind of Bizarre too.  Lesse, we
have Libraries, Objects, and Members.  Database files are Objects,
program sources are MEMBERS within objects, but the programs themselves
are objects of a different type.  How many different TYPES of objects do
you have on an AS/400?  Also *ALL* different types of objects must be
treated differently.  It's like a cross between a tree and the linear
structure of the /36 /34.  It doesn't hit either end.

Good points.  Yep,  Unified database structure.  *ALL* data files are
the same format, and can therefore be manipulated by any program on the
system.  Security, albeit a little complex has some simplifiable
features I'd like to see in *IX. Like authorization holders and
authorization lists for example.

Comparing a E90 to a 486 Single CPU box isn't fair either.  Grab a Wyse
7000 or 9000 or some other MP 486 box.  I was comparing a $60,000 box to
a $15,000 one.  How much AS/400 can I get for $15,000 today?

It also depends a lot on what you want to *DO* with the darn thing.  Can
I put 48 ASCII text devices on it? (What I have on the 486) including 3
MultiTech FAX modems, and 3 Worldblazers doing Simple data transfer from
remote PC's with say Zmodem or Xmodem? How about that HP?  Now the key, 
What is *THIS* gonna cost.  How much does an Ethernet Adaptor & software
jack onto the price?  TWINAX interfaces seem to jack up the cost  of all
the perhipherals a bit.  How much is a TWINAX workstation as opposed to
a $400 Wyse?  What is my cost/port for ASCII/RS-232 interface?  How much
am I gonna pay in 3 months when I need another 2G of disk space?  Who
can I buy that from besides IBM?

If *ALL YOU WANT TO DO* is TPC's on a single machine used as a database
server of sorts ....

Follow-ups to comp.misc

-- 
Keith Smith          uunet!ksmith!keith            5719 Archer Rd.
Digital Designs      BBS 1-919-423-4216            Hope Mills, NC 28348-2201
Somewhere in the Styx of North Carolina ...
Newsgroups: comp.arch