HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: calvo@nssdca.gsfc.nasa.gov (Sherri Calvo)
Subject: Re: Young Adult Books
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA - Goddard Space Flight Center
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 14:32:00 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.145744.445@ee.rochester.edu>, prakash@ee.rochester.edu (Siddhartha Duttagupta) writes...
>In article <1992Jul22.051212.9061@morrow.stanford.edu> francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir) writes:
>>Jennifer Heise writes:
>>
>>
>>There is now, of course, a whole new genre of Young Adult novels that Alcott
>>must have inspired. Curiously they are much more prissy than the original --
>>quite nasty.
>>
>>I have vague childhood memories of *What Katy Did* and the sequel, *What
>>Katy Did Next*. Does anyone remember more about these? Their dates? Were
>>they pre-Alcott?
>>
> 
>What about the celebrated series by L.M. Montgomery?I was extremely moved when
>reading Little Women [maybe at twelve you are less cynical!]and all stories
>handling a similar theme did not seem to match up to Alcott's 'real-life"
>experiences.However when I came to the states I saw the PBS/Sullivan production
>of Anne series[first two] and was enthralled by its spontaneity.I read the
>entire series,and except the third one when Anne's romances run amuck all the 
>books are pretty good.I liked the first and fourth most.The characters of the
>little girls were the best:Anne and little Elizabeth.The two movies were
>however "first class" and I would highly recommend them.


Does anyone remember the "Betsy, Tacy and Tib" series? I don't 
remember who wrote these but I used to dig old copies out of the 
Brooklyn Public Library. My mother read them as a kid, and recommended 
them to me. Another series I got into the same way was a group of 
books the titles of which all ended in "Shoes". I must have read 
"Ballet Shoes" dozens of times.

Then of course there are the Laura Ingalls Wilder books. I've found 
that in general these have held up very well.

Two of the same genre as the L.M. Montgomery books are "Rebecca of 
Sunnybrook Farm" and "Pollyanna". Neither are as memorable, IMHO. No 
doubt that many memories have been jogged somewhat by the television 
productions featuring Megan Followes and the late Colleen Dewhurst as 
the definitive Marilla. But even when I was very little I thought 
Pollyanna was a bit of a dweeb.

Sherri

Sherri Chasin Calvo
calvo@nssdca.gsfc.nasa.gov



Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:13002 rec.arts.sf.misc:2204 rec.humor:24487 alt.folklore.urban:19723 alt.religion.kibology:3201
From: crichard@yoda.eecs.wsu.edu (richardson craig s - CS500)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.arts.sf.misc,rec.humor,alt.folklore.urban,alt.religion.kibology
Subject: Re: Agnostics and Athiests
Date: 24 Jul 92 18:04:29 GMT
Organization: Washington State University

In article <1992Jul24.131119.7420@decvax.dec.com> kaehler@zk3.dec.com writes:
>
>In article <1992Jul24.075717.104265@zeus.calpoly.edu>, rcasey@zeus.calpoly.edu (Rosalie J Casey) writes:
>>
>>	If you had a bet to take, either for a god and go to 
>>'eternal bliss', or that there is no god and take your chances...
>>
>>where would your money be?
>>------
>>no sig , to cheep
>>rcasey@iris.calpoly.edu
>>
>Hmm...  Maybe you are right, wouldn't hurt to take up a religion for
>a little "after life" insurance.  As good a reason as any.  Now, which
>religion is the best "after life" insurance policy.  So many to pick
>from...  Hindu, Moslem, Christian, Jewish...  Maybe all...

Plus, you get more holidays that way :-).

--Craig

-- 
These remarkable insights were brought to you from the fertile imagination of:
Craig S. Richardson  (crichard@yoda.eecs.wsu.edu)
GM, Pullman Sleepers (Original Bitnet Fantasy Baseball League)
GM, Seattle Rainiers (Internet Federal AL League)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: jahb@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (JENNIFER A. HEISE)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: medieval fiction
Date: 22 Jul 92 02:46:35 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

In article <1992Jul20.092657.7655@vax.oxford.ac.uk>, gms@vax.oxford.ac.uk writes
:
>> My wife also greatly enjoyed the novels of Sharon Penman.  She wrote a
>> book about Richard III called "The Sunne In Splendor", and three books
>> about the same general set of characters as Pargeter's Brothers of Gwynned
>> books.
>> --
>
>Did she not also write "The Mists of Avalon"; an Autharian novel?
>

NO, she did NOT. "The Mists of Avalon", an Arthurian novel, was written by
Marian Zimmer Bradley, who also wrote "The Firebrand", retelling the Illiad
from the point of view of Kassandra.

-- 
Jennifer Heise                           Net: jahb@lehigh.edu
Reference Dept.,                         Phone: (215) 758-3072
Fairchild-Martindale Libraries #8A,  Lehigh University, Bethlehem, PA 18015

"You know I don't know so many things, but I know what's been goin' on:
They put in a nickel, and they want a dollar song"
From: ccfj@hippo.ru.ac.za (F. Jacot Guillarmod)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Identify this story/quote/poem?
Date: 25 Jul 92 22:03:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: hippo.1992Jul25.220323.13592
Organization: Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa

In <dljmba+.tmaddox@netcom.com> tmaddox@netcom.com (Tom Maddox) writes:

>In article <1992Jul22.181016.12197@awdprime.austin.ibm.com> craigb@ot.austin.ibm.com writes:
>>

>>Two people are walking on the beach. One finds a live clam
>>that has washed ashore, picks it up and throws it back into
>>the ocean. The other person says "There's an awful lot of
>>clams washed up on this beach; no way you can save them all."
>>To which the first person replies "I may not be able to save
>>them all, but I made a difference in this one clam's life."

>>Am not sure if it's a story or a poem or one of those 
>>inspirational things you see on plaques or what. Anyone
>>know who wrote it and where I can find the exact text?

Loren Eisely rings a bell in this context.  Can't remember the name of
the book this passage occurs in, though.

-- 
  F.F. Jacot Guillarmod     PO  Box 94     \        |     ccfj@hippo.ru.ac.za
  Computing Centre       Grahamstown 6140   \      /     +27 461 22023 xt 284
  Rhodes University        South Africa      ;___*/   33 18 30 S | 26 31 45 E
From: mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: REQUEST FOR HOLMES STORY
Keywords: Randall Collins,Philosopher's Ring
Date: 23 Jul 92 18:46:32 GMT
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Originator: mnemonic@eff.org

In article <BruoIu.LqF@ecf.toronto.edu> pasupat@ecf.toronto.edu (Subbarayan Pasupathy) writes:
>I would appreciate information on where I can locate a copy of
>the Sherlock Holmes story called "Case of the philosophers'
>ring" by Randall Collins.
>If it is not too much trouble,I would appreciate if someone
>can send me a copy of the article.I believe that the article 
>mentions the mathematicians Hardy and the Indian mathematician
>Ramanujan and I need it for a project on mathematicians
>referred to in fiction.

It's a novel, not a story. Since it's a book, it should be easier to find
than a short story is.


--Mike




-- 
Mike Godwin,     |"Of the many definitions of poetry, the   
mnemonic@eff.org | simplest is still the best: 'memorable speech.'" 
(617) 864-0665   | 
EFF, Cambridge   |                     --W.H. Auden 
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:13466 rec.arts.sf.misc:2291 rec.humor:24901 alt.folklore.urban:20141 alt.religion.kibology:3274
From: earendil@wizard.etsu.edu (Allen Garvin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.arts.sf.misc,rec.humor,alt.folklore.urban,alt.religion.kibology
Subject: Re: Agnostics and Athiests
Date: 30 Jul 92 18:14:58 GMT
Reply-To: earendil@wizard.etsu.edu (Allen Garvin)
Organization: East Texas State University, Commerce, TX


Kafka said something like: "There is a theoretical means of happiness:
to believe in the eternal element of oneself and to not seek it."
My beliefs are more in line with this. I accept the possibility of a God
but choose not to follow him in any case.
Since I don't know a particular name for this belief, I usually call myself
an agnostic. I find atheism rather silly. If there is no God, there is 
no way to prove it. The atheists I know fall into to groups: those who 
realize there are no answers in a silent universe and wallow in doubt
about their beliefs, and those who take a religious-like conviction about
their non-belief. Neither of these positions are satisfying. 

Camus would have termed one who believes as I do the 'absurd man'. I have
found that when I share my belief with Christians, many are shocked. At a
party recently, one followed me around trying to convert me and calling me
an imbecile. It seems many can accept denying the existence of God, but
cannot accept my denial of God himself. 

Does anyone else share this view? And since this is a fiction list, one
may also ask about peoples opinion of 'absurdist' literature. Is this a
tenentable position, for instance?

     -Earendil the occasionally coherent
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto)
Subject: Re: Or Shakespeare either (was: I don't like Dickens...so sue me!
Organization: Yale CS Mail/News Gateway
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 17:18:41 GMT


Fiona Webster (formerly Fiona Oceanstar) writes:

> Mark Taranto writes:

>> The SubGenius (who I wish would write under a REAL name) writes:

> Gee, Mark, you never said that to a certain F. Oceanstar.

Fiona's point is well taken (although she once told me in e-mail that
Fiona Oceanstar WAS her real name, though not her legal name).
I should have written that I wish The SubGenius would write under a
different name, rather than a real name.

I have no objection to pen-names.  I just feel stupid calling
someone "The SubGenius."

Mark

PS -- a prediction:

When Fiona finally publishes her book, it will be revealed to all
that her real name is Babette.

Mark
From: spb0457@zeus.tamu.edu (SubGenius)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Or Shakespeare either (was: I don't like Dickens...so sue me!
Date: 21 Jul 92 20:22:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: zeus.21JUL199215220156
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

Jeff Davis writes...
>A year or two ago, one of rec.arts.* Noble Sons and I discussed in
>animated terms just how viable the Bard's plays were as Plays for Today.  
>He pushed forward the Pro Willie, I the contrary position. We each walked
>away the victor considering that we walked away with our original 
>positions unchanged. I like Shakespeare as Reading Matter, haven't 
>wavered in that since memorizing Portia's yabba-dabba-doo speech
>for sophomore English, even before -- extraneously added -- the 
>Beatles played Shea Stadium. But I can understand why wading through
>the annotations might not be everyone's choice. Life is short and
>Shakespeare, more than most authors, comes to us 2nd hand. The
>orginal poster seemed to be up to the eyebrows in Literature 
>anyway. No harm done by leaving all that Genius to others.
>-- 

+----------------------------------SubG----------------------------------------+
Interestingly enough (at least from my point of view), I had a discussion a 
while back with a professor of English whose forti was Renaissance in general 
and Shakespeare in particular.  My question to him was why every student hoping 
to get a degree in English had to take a class on Shakespeare's works, while no 
other author is singled out for such treatment.  His reply (with a straight
face and everything) was, "Because Shakespeare is without any possible doubt
the greatest writer the world has ever produced."  (Or words very much to that 
effect.)

It seems to me that that sort of literary snobbery (to other literary snobs, 
that is, as distinct from the literary snobbery literary snobs reserve for 
those unfettered by artful letters) is bloody rampant in the "university" 
system these days.  And not just with Billy-Boy either;  Faulkner, Steinbeck, 
Fitzgerald u.s.w are as much the darlings of the modern litsnob as Shakespeare 
is to the Renaissance/Reformation/Enlightenment lads.

To whit:  A friend of mine is taking an "Intro to Literature" class this summer.
This means that the entire class, start to finish, is somewhat less than five 
weeks.

I've glanced at the reading list:  Joyce is represented (by a short story), 
Hemmingway is represented (by a short story), and all the tried and true 
industrial strength poets are represented (each by a single poem).

In all, my friend here is allegedly being introduced to "literature" by about a 
dozen short works constituting, all together, somewhat less than 75 pages.

I'm not quite sure where I thought I was going with all this.  Come to that,
I'm not real sure where they're (the THEY that organized that course) going
with it, either.




Yours etc.,





SubGenius
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.arts.sf.misc,rec.humor,alt.folklore.urban,alt.religion.kibology
From: spg@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Stephen P. Guthrie)
Subject: Re: Agnostics and Athiests
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 16:57:24 GMT

>>
>>Let's not forget the Apatheists.  We don't know and we don't really care.
>
>And what about Autotheists, persons who believe they themselves are God?
>(And thou shalt keep no other gods!)
>

And, of course, the Frisbeetarians, who believe that after death the soul
flies up on the roof and gets stuck.



Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: tmaddox@netcom.com (Tom Maddox)
Subject: Re: Identify this story/quote/poem?
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 92 09:03:16 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

In article <1992Jul22.181016.12197@awdprime.austin.ibm.com> craigb@ot.austin.ibm.com writes:
>

>Two people are walking on the beach. One finds a live clam
>that has washed ashore, picks it up and throws it back into
>the ocean. The other person says "There's an awful lot of
>clams washed up on this beach; no way you can save them all."
>To which the first person replies "I may not be able to save
>them all, but I made a difference in this one clam's life."

>Am not sure if it's a story or a poem or one of those 
>inspirational things you see on plaques or what. Anyone
>know who wrote it and where I can find the exact text?

	The version I heard used banana slugs, not clams, and the passerby
flung (flinged?  flang?  holy shit, I've misplaced entirely my sense of how this
verb is conjugated, or indeed whether it is) the slug into orbit, not the ocean.

	Christ I cry every time I think of that or "The Walrus and the
Carpenter."
-- 
				Tom Maddox
		    	    tmaddox@netcom.com
		   "I swear I never heard the first shot"
                Wm. Gibson, "Agrippa:  a book of the dead"
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: wojdylo@maths.uwa.oz.au (INFIDEL)
Subject: Re: magical realism--static vs. kinetic
Organization: University of Western Australia
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 17:00:33 GMT

Fiona Webster writes:

>This is the second sentence of _Amerika_, describing the Statue of Liberty:

>     The arm with the sword rose up, as if newly stretched aloft,
>     and round the figure blew the free winds of heaven.

>Now this line, while deliberately imaginative rather than "accurate,"
>does not seem, to me, akin to magical realism.  "Why not?", I ask
>myself.

>Here's one answer: because the arm with the sword does not move. 
>The winds are blowing, but the imagined arm is static, rather than
>kinetic.

>I'm sure there are lots of other reasons for not applying the term
>magical realism to Kafka's _Amerika_, or to this one line, but try
>this on for size: Do not many magical realists make use of motion--
>e.g., Gabriel Garcia Marquez's yellow butterflies in flamboyant
>flight--as if the "magic" were breaking through, bursting forth, from
>the real?

>                                                  --Fiona Webster



This sounds somewhat mystical, hence inappropriate.


When telling a moral story it's the writer's burden to make his words
meaningful; this has become notoriously more difficult as more and more
literature gets written, as people become more and more aware of certain
things, and words which conveyed something a few years ago become as
common as loose change. Ideas are as light as helium balloons; words
that have become common currency are like dead-weights attached to the
ideas.

Kafka, Marquez, early Calvino, some of Rushdie, and others,  chose to
infuse their stories of objective reality with  supernatural or magical
occurrences.  That the irrational resists being immediately entangled in a
logical system, allows more words to be introduced into the description
before being linked to an idea;  space is placed between the words and the
idea, allowing the idea to float freely, to be captured in the end by
_exactly_ the right weight -- the moral of the story.



John Wojdylo



Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: nevins@husc.harvard.edu
Subject: philip k. dick
Organization: Yale CS Mail/News Gateway
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 07:10:50 GMT

I've noticed that there has been a thread here recently on Philip K. Dick,
and I must confess I haven't been following it because I haven't read much
of his stuff.  I have a very general question: I notice that Dick has somehow
become, rather recently, a "darling of the academy," and essays on him are
popping up in scholarly journals and in the NYTBR.  I also understand that
his work ranges widely in quality--some quite good (comparisons to S. Lem,
et al), and some toss-off genre stuff that he wrote to feed himself. I also
know that Vinyage is currently reprinting some (all?) of his works.  Could
someone in the know give me a rundown on PKD--what is worth reading, esp.
Does anyone know what Vintage plans to reprint?  I read both _Do Androids
Dream of Electric Sheep_ and _Flow My Tears, The Policeman Said_ some time
ago, and enjoyed them.  I'm thinking of getting _The Man in the High Castle_
now that it's available again.  Any general revies, recomendations, thoughts
on PKD would be appreciated.
Also: does anyone know where the title _Flow My Tears . . ._ comes from 
(allusion/quotation?--maybe it's clear from the novel, but I don't recall), 
and does anyone have a copy of _Do Androids Dream_ with the original cover
and title (i.e. NOT _Blade Runner_) that they'd be willing to part with?
Thanks for any comments--random ones happily accepted.
Best
Mark
From: djdaneh@pbhyc.PacBell.COM (Dan'l DanehyOakes)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Re-reading (was RAH)
Date: 27 Jul 92 21:50:56 GMT
Reply-To: djdaneh@PacBell.COM (Dan'l DanehyOakes)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA

In article <1992Jul27.185754.22883@eff.org> mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin) writes:
>In article <5144@transfer.stratus.com> jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com writes:

>>I had the same experience with Burroughs, though in my case it was
>>with his Mars books. As a kid, I loved the Barsoom books. About
>>a year ago, I read several of them aloud to my daughter.  I
>>was appalled at how bad the writing was.

>What's amazing is how his writing changed after he started doing 
>books like NOVA EXPRESS and NAKED LUNCH.

As you probably remember, Mike, the transitional point in Burroughs' writing
was the all-important short story "The Jungle Rot Kid on the Nod."


		He's got a mask that's black and white
		  Mine's just black but that's all right
		In silence and cunning he plies his trade
		  I ply mine in silence and shade
		[. . .]
		In the heart of the city it's murder time
		  It ain't no crime to kill a mime
			-- "Killing a Mime" by Visual Purple

Dan'l Danehy-Oakes, Net.Roach
My opinions do NOT represent Pacific Bell,
Professional Development, or anyone else.
But I'm willing to share.
From: egpv29@castle.ed.ac.uk (JHenderson)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Spoilers - continuing discussion, part 2
Date: 27 Jul 92 13:52:16 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

=>In article <64336@hydra.gatech.EDU> barclay@RAIL9000.gatech.edu (Barclay Blanchard) writes:
=>
=>>Or maybe it was that Sophie's Choice reminded me of Fowles' The Magus
=>>because both were told from the POV of (as it seemed to me) intellectual snobs.

Maybe you got confused with French Lt's Woman and made a connection via
Meryl Streep? ;->



-- 
-Jeremy Henderson        egpv29@castle.ed.ac.uk   

(or am I?)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: torkel@sics.se (Torkel Franzen)
Subject: Re: Nobel winners
Organization: Swedish Institute of Computer Science, Kista
	<1992Jul17.165112.15939@sics.se> <11354@optilink.UUCP>
	<1992Jul27.204724.13268@Cadence.COM>
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 07:35:28 GMT

In article <1992Jul27.204724.13268@Cadence.COM> vince@cadence.com 
(Vince Gibboni) writes:

   >cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
   >> In any case,
   >> to characterize _The Second World War_ as "How I won the war" is the
   >> sort of snotty remark I would expect from a country that didn't have
   >> any moral problems helping the Nazis to invade Norway, and continued
   >> to sell the Nazis raw materials until 1943.

  Sorry about the indirect quotation; I just couldn't find Clayton
Cramer's article. Anyway, I think it's a fine idea to scrutinize
and criticize Sweden's WWII policies.  However, I also think it's
a good idea to know something about them. Pondering this idea about
Sweden "helping the Nazis to invade Norway", I finally surmise that
it refers to the transport of German (unarmed) troops through
Sweden, one of the many concessions Sweden made to the Germans. This
transport, of course, took place long after the invasion of Norway.
From: stcmille@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (Stephen C. Miller)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Robertson Davies
Date: 30 Jul 92 15:57:39 GMT
Article-I.D.: usenet.Bs7Lo4.2B5
Organization: Indiana University

Who cares?

-- 
--------------------
=
(former rock star turned grad student)
Steve Miller	 		    stcmille@copper.ucs.indiana.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.arts.sf.misc