From: russil@idacom.hp.com (Russil Wvong)
Subject: Re: Asian-male stereotyping, how?
Reply-To: russil@idacom.hp.com (Russil Wvong)
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, IDACOM Telecommunications Division
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 16:34:23 GMT

Hi, Dwight.

underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
>ks4816@albnyvms.bitnet writes:
>>underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
>>>Hey, Chinese-cu boy.  Laugh at yourself.
>>What the hell is your problem?!!! I can stand a lot of the crud that comes out
>>of your mind and that which you choose to permeate this newsgroup with...but
>>where the hell do you get off making a comment like that? I didn't see the
>>relevance of it and it basically reaffirms the FACT that you are a racist and
>>haven't learned to relate to other people without bringing their race into it.
>
>This is a bizarre accusation which leads me to suspect that Ms. Shum
>identifies with Chinese-cu culture.

Her NAME wouldn't have anything to do with your suspicions, would it? :-)

Come on, Dwight.  Be honest.  You say that "Chinese-ge" is not the same as
"Chinese-cu".  Yet when RT and Jenny criticize your articles, you attribute
their criticism to their being "Chinese-cu", despite their obviously being
American-born.  Don't you *really* mean "Chinese-ge"?  How can they be
"Chinese-cu", when they were born here?  Do you really think they're capable
of strangling their daughters, or selling them into slavery?

Frankly, Dwight, you have this really bad habit of stereotyping everyone you
respond to, whether they're Chinese, Japanese, or Korean.  You're always
talking about "typical Chinese-cu thinking" (when responding to criticism
from someone with a Chinese surname) or "a typical Japanese response" (when
responding to someone with a Japanese name).  This kind of thing really
bugs people.  You've got to learn to respond to people as INDIVIDUALS,
not just ethnic representatives.  (Or, as Jenny put it, to relate to
them without bringing their race into it.)

>It's interesting that Ms. Shum thinks that Chinese-cu = Chinese-ge.
>Even more interesting is the fact that rednecks, Klansmen, and Nazis have
>the same view.

You've said that it's possible for a genetically Chinese ("Chinese-ge")
person to not think of themselves as Chinese ("Chinese-cu").  All right,
it's possible.  (Someone orphaned and adopted early in life, for example,
with no family connections.)  But I've never met such a person, Dwight,
with the possible exception of yourself.  And do you *really* not think
of yourself as Chinese?

And does "Chinese-cu" really mean "culturally Chinese", or does it mean
"thinks of himself or herself as Chinese"?  As far as I know, nearly all
American-born Chinese think of themselves as Chinese (as well as American),
even though they may not be "culturally Chinese".

The distinction which you're attempting to draw between "non-Chinese-cu" and
"Chinese-cu" is basically the same as the "ABC/FOB" distinction -- except
that it's continuously moving, which makes it worse.  When I disagreed with
you on the net, you said my thinking was "typical Chinese-cu".  Later, after
I sent you a reference to an article in the Economist which mentioned
Henry Liu's killing, you referred to me as a "Chinese-American".  (So
which is it?  I'm Chinese -- I identify myself as being Chinese -- but
I'm not "culturally" Chinese -- I don't even speak the language.  Am I
Chinese-cu or not?  And if I am, do you really think I'm capable of
strangling my daughters?)

>(On top of that, Ms. Shum thinks that the Chinese-ge are a "race".  Wow.
>That's news to me.  I know of only 3 (or 4, depending on how you count)
>races:  Mongoloid, Caucasoid, and Negroid; these are the terms which
>I learned in school from my sociology instructor.
>
>But the Chinese-ge are a "race" as distinct from the Japanese-ge "race"?
>My.  My.  Perhaps Chinese-cu hegemony is more pervasive than I suspected.)

Come off it, Dwight.  Poles (from Poland) aren't a "race", either, but
calling someone a "Polack" is considered racist.  "Racism" includes
prejudice against ethnic groups.

(I think I'd better stop now, before I start babbling about "crypto-racism"
and "monomania".  I shouldn't be so hard on Dwight, actually.  Okay, so he's
a little screwed up, but then who isn't?)

--
Russil Wvong
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
russil@idacom.hp.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american