HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bill@wsuaix.csc.wsu.edu (William E. Johns;S23015)
Subject: Re: Squash or slide?
Organization: Washington State University
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 92 21:59:07 GMT

In article <LOTTO.92Nov22084843@laura.harvard.edu> lotto@laura.harvard.edu (Jerry Lotto) writes:
>>>>>> On 22 Nov 92 01:03:13 GMT, molenda@i1.msi.umn.edu (Jason Molenda) said:
>bill@wsuaix.csc.wsu.edu (William E. Johns;S23015) writes:
>Bill>For those who actually have the luxury of deciding, please do tell....
>
>Jason> I'm with bill on this one.
>
>There have been papers presented on techniques for departing from
>one's mount prior to collision.  They all share a common problem.
>Your directional and speed control is better while on the motorcycle.
>This is similar to the statement "I had to lay it down".  Literally
>translated, it means "I couldn't/didn't know how to execute an
>effective accident-avoidance/reduction maneuver".
>
>There is a finite time from perception to collision.  You can spend

I absolutely, positively agree with everything you say in this posting.
There are however events which are not covered by what you say.  I am not
talking about collision avoidance, I'm talking about hitting that patch of
oil at night in a corner.  One moment you are happy in the saddle,
0.3 femto-seconds later you're airborne.  Then what.  Based on everything
I've read on the net, the only really productive thing to do is think of
something particularly clever to yell just before impact so you have 
a neat posting to deliver to the masses if and when you get outta the
hospital.

Ride Free, and think of something clever to say in the air,

Bill
________________________________________________________________
johnsw@wsuvm1.csc.wsu.edu  prez=BIMC 
AMA #500924   DoD #00314   WMTC #0002  SR= 3 
Yamabeemer fjgs1200pdr100 740GLE  KotV KotRR KotD #0001  :-)
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

There are many paths to truth.  Don't die choosing.
                                                      Zen Graffiti
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
Subject: Re: Squash or slide?
From: emd@ham.almanac.bc.ca
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 92 12:46:10 PST
Distribution: world
Organization: Robert Smits

jlevine@rd.hydro.on.ca (Jody Levine) writes:

> What I want to know is, how many people have actually managed to hit the kill
> switch during a crash? In my low-speed low-side I wound up standing over the
> bike (in recently scratched leathers) still holding the clutch lever, and
> the engine was still running! It would have been a pain to get it into neutra
> so I just shut it off.
> 

Let me add my anecdotal evidence. I have. About ten years ago, I was 
rding down a highway in central British Columbia. It was summertime, and 
had been dry for about a month. There was a heavy drizzle that day.

Somewhere near 100 Mile House, I perceived a Mountie waving down traffic, 
and a Ford Granada in the ditch on the left side of the road. I was 
travelling at about 45 m.p.h. (72 k.p.h.) because of the rain and aan 
upcoming ess curve to the right.

As I approached the cop, I turned off the throttle, preparatory to 
braking. My rear wheel instantly slid out from under me, and the 
motorcycle and I were now travelling on the left side of the motorcycle 
at about 40 m.p.h. On the way down, I turned off the engine with the kill 
button (On the Suzy, it was located where I could hit it with my right 
thumb).

As the Suzy and I continued to slide down the road, I remember having the
presence of mind to roll to my right, so that the oncoming traffic 
wouldn't mash me as I slid into the curve.

Hitting the kill switch certainly saved the Suzy from major engine 
damage. The bike (GS1000E) had a Hannigan fairing with lowers, and the 
pavement ground away the lower fairing and the outer cover of the 
alternator. With a friends help, we welded the aluminum cover (at his 
dad's machine shop, with a special aluminum welding technique I can't 
remember now), and I rode the bike home to Hudson's Hope.

Had to replace the lower, the end cover, and a turn signal. And a pair of 
rain pants, which had worn down only where my pocket comb resided in my 
jeans back pocket. 

BTW, it was almost impossible even to stand up on the road. It seems a 
truck had spilled a load of tar there some six months previously, and 
they had scraped and burned it off , and put down sand to improve the 
traction. Six months later, no sand was left at all. 

Even today, I remain surprised by how clear my memory is of the event, 
and how slowly things seemed to be happening at the time. I guess 
adrenalin really does speed up thinking!


Robert Smits Ladysmith BC  | I don't wanna pickle,
emd@ham.almanac.bc.ca      | just wanna ride my motorsickle - AG
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
From: jeq@i88.isc.com (Jonathan E. Quist)
Subject: Re: HELMETS
Organization: INTERACTIVE Systems Corporation, Naperville, IL
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 21:38:04 GMT

In article <1egss6INNa20@sixgun.East.Sun.COM> egreen@east.sun.com writes:
>In article 0@u.washington.edu, moseley@u.washington.edu (Steve L. Moseley) writes:
>>
>>The fact is that in states without helmet laws, 50% of motorcyclists NEVER 
>>wear helmets. This makes me question the assumption that these Human Beings 
>>are capable of making informed judgements on the issue. 
>
>The fact is that among nonworking house-spouses, 50% of them watch soap
>operas regularly.  This makes me question the assumption that these
>Human Beings are capable of making informed judgements.

Hey, if my spouse didn't catch the soaps on Fridays, how else would
I keep up with General Hospital?


-- 
Jonathan E. Quist                              INTERACTIVE Systems Corporation
jeq@i88.isc.com  '71 CL450-K4 "Gleep", DoD #094        Naperville, IL
        There are many things a person should experience in a lifetime.
       Among them are an infant's first cry, and an infant's first laugh.
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
From: csl@swl.msd.ray.com (Scott Lilliott)
Subject: Re: Norton Plans
Organization: Raytheon Company, Tewksbury, MA
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 13:59:57 GMT

roland@quadsys.com (Roland Besserer) writes:


>Does anyone know what Norton's current status is? I thought they were supposed
>to release a street version of their successful rotary racer. 

>-- 

>Roland Besserer
>QUAD Systems
>roland@quadsys.com

They are currently planning to race in the US this year on the 588 rotary.
They will be releasing an updated version of the street model called the "F1"
but not in the states, only in Europe.

S.

-- 
#   Scott Lilliott -- csl@swl.msd.ray.com 
 #  AMA #600897   "Countersteering is like benchracing. A bunch of posers   
#   DoD #0227      standing around the parts counter lying about all the
 #  INOA #8563     great twisties they've steered through."- Bill Ranck DoD 496
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
From: brady_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Brady)
Subject: What would you ride on a long distance trip?
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 19:33:35 GMT
Organization: Looking for a Job, Inc.

Recently I've been thinking about taking a long distance solo ride -- a ride to
Alaska from my home in New Hampshire. I'd ride the Trans-Alaska Hwy through
Canada (my 2nd favourite country, and sometimes my most!), go up through the
Territories to Dawson, over to Circle, down to Fairbanks, then Anchorage. From
there, I'll take the state ferry to Sitka and Juneau, then down to Vancouver,
into the Pacific Northwest, then trundle my way back across the USA to New
England.

Now that I've gotten the course layed out (;^), I'll have to get buy-in from my
spouse (no easy task), and (of course) a bike up to the task. This is where the
net.wisdom comes in!  =:^O

The Goof2 is too small in load capacity and a tad too much of a tuck position
for about 10Kmiles (or 16,000 km) of riding. I'd prefer something with a large
frame, fairing, bags, and a more understressed engine. To me this sounds like a
FLH, BMW or (dare I say) a 'Wing. I've owned or had riding experience with the
FLH and boxer BMWs. This would also be a used bike that I bring up to spec for
such a long trip.

I've been to most of these places via plane and car, but really want to
experience this on a bike. I've done bike trips of up to about 2,500miles, but
nothing of this magnitude.

So here is your essay question -- what would you ride on a 10,000 mile trip?
Pencils up... and begin.

--pete

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pete Brady                              EMAIL: brady_p@apollo.hp.com (Until 31 Dec 92)
Dirtbag Contractor from Hell(tm)        PHONE: 508-436-5226 (Until 31 Dec 92)

"Biking is not often concerned with logic, statistics or performance figures.
It is usually about as reasoning as love and as logical as art." -- Nick, M'Lud :-)

DoD #5831 -- '92 CBR600F2
From: cam@castle.ed.ac.uk (Chris Malcolm)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
Subject: Re: Saturday night COPS on FOX
Date: 19 Nov 92 00:25:55 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

In article <22473@drutx.ATT.COM> car377@druhi.ATT.COM (RogersC) writes:
>In article <1992Nov17.033630.5630@tcsi.com>, markk@tcs.com (Mark Kromer) writes:

>> "Say on a per mile basis someone is five times (I don't know the actual
>> figure and would appreciate it if anyone knows) as likely to be killed
>> on a motorcycle than in a car.  That means that every 5 miles you
>> travel in your car is as risky as one mile on a motorcycle.  

The UK accident stats are these: Deaths per billion km

	Motorcycles (powered 2 wheelers)	110
	Cars					  4.5

>The figures only apply to YOU if YOU are BOTH the average cager AND
>the average motorcyclist, and if your exposure to risk factors happens
>to be the same as the "average" person described by the statistic for
>the time/place/conditions of the statistic.

Well said. The average (UK) car driver is middle aged, of either sex,
and has a decade or two of driving experience. The average (UK) biker
is a young man in his late teens/early twenties with less than 3 years
experience. The stats are incomparable. It's quite possible that if
the Gov't were to ban bikes, they'd simply push the lunatics who have
most of the accidents off bikes and into cars, where they would
continue to have accidents just as frequently.
-- 
Chris Malcolm    cam@uk.ac.ed.aifh          +44 (0)31 650 3085
Department of Artificial Intelligence,    Edinburgh University
5 Forrest Hill, Edinburgh, EH1 2QL, UK                DoD #205
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
From: markt@cup.hp.com (Mark Thompson)
Subject: Re: Leg Protection for cold weather?
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 17:01:33 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1scd1 PL4

In article <1elu71INNhck@im4u.cs.utexas.edu> osborn@cs.utexas.edu (John Howard Osborn) writes:
 :
 :
>which are genuine "danskin" or some varient thereof. I'd wear
>pantyhose (I figure they're cheaper) but I can't figure out
>the sizing.

I have heard that beat cops that have the night shift often wear pantyhose
to stay warm.  I don't know how they figure out the sizeing.  

Mark
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
Subject: Helmet Graphics Information sought
From: Willie Sanchez <PCZBH@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Monday, 16 Nov 1992 09:40:13 EST
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center

I would appreciate any information on companies that would be able to redo the
graphics on my red/white Shoei Eddie Lawson helmets.  There is nothing
physically wrong with the helmets but I just brought a blue BMW 750 to replace
the Kaw 750 Turbo that was recently stolen from me and would like to get the
helmets redone.  Thanks in advance.
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
From: datasbld@bnr.ca (Datasbuild)
Subject: Re: 2-strokes (was:Re: REQUEST: short fella has a question or two...
Organization: BNR Europe Ltd, Maidenhead, UK
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 17:06:03 GMT

Patrick Jordan (pjordan@rp.CSIRO.AU) wrote:
: jlevine@rd.hydro.on.ca (Jody Levine) writes:
: > Nick, the British biker who works for a Canadian company writes:
: > >If you can't tell the difference between pounds avoirdupoi and pounds sterling
: >                                                  ^^^^^^^^^^s
: > Second, I can spell in the Queen's English better than you can (despite the
: > silly pronouciation)!
: 
: avoirdupois? C'est un mot francais, pas anglais, n'est-ce pas?
: (Or at least with very french origins)
: 
: -- 
: 
: Be seeing you!
: 
: Patrick.

O foolish child!  Know not the ancestry of thine own language?  Admittedly
bastadised to hell, but almost the same as mine.


It means goods by weight.  "aveir de peis"  In Old French.

Does the date 1066 mean anything to you?


Nick (Le Francophile Biker)   MAG 73516   DoD 1069  AD 1066


M'sure.
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
From: mbeaving@bnr.ca (The Beav)
Subject: Re: fog / driving lights
Keywords: visibility, amber or white, fog or driving
Reply-To: MBEAVING@BNR.CA
Organization: BNR Ottawa, DMS Software Design
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 17:42:16 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.224438.21546@dg-rtp.dg.com>, taylor@farm.rtp.dg.com (William Taylor) writes:
|> 
|> I'm thinking of getting some 55 watt fog or driving lights
|> for my 85 shadow for two reasons.
|> 
   [ various reasons deleted ]

|> 
|> Thanks,
|> buddy

   I installed a pair of driving lights on my Sabre and am
very happy with the results.  I was mainly aiming for 
safety so I was more visible to the oncoming traffic.
I am quite sure that this has saved me from at least five 
serious accidents.

  The only problem with driving or fog lights is that they
are VERY annoyinh go the other drivers.  There's nothing like
getting a pain of fog lights in your eyes while rounding a 
corner to make your heart jump a bit (where is the f**king road???).
I got away from this problem by putting the focus of the lights
to a spot about 3 feet up the road.  This way the intensity is 
not as bad to other drivers, but rest assured, they are still
plenty bright to get me noticed.  

   As lights for increase visibility of the road up ahead, I'm
not too sure I'd rely on my driving lights.  Normal lowbeam
lights are the most appropriate, but I have never seem them
in their own units.  I'd probably suggest just replacing the
windscreen and visor.


=============================================================================
= The Beav |Mike Beavington|BellNorthernResearch Ottawa,Ont,Canada| Dod:9733=
= Seca 400->Seca 400->RZ350->Seca750->Suzuki550->Seca650turbo->V65Sabre     =
= (-> 1994 GTS1000 ...can't afford the '93) |  mbeaving@bnr.ca              =
= Parking spaces? We don't need no steenkin' parking spaces!                =
=============================================================================
From: arturo@informix.com (Arturo Vega)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
Subject: Re: Squash or slide?
Date: 19 Nov 92 06:58:22 GMT
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.

azw@aber.ac.uk (Andrew Michael Woodward) writes:


>OK folks, so whats the net wisdom (!) here? Do you slide and wear yourself away
>in a short red stain; or tuck up an roll to avoid the rash, travel further 
>and end up under an oncoming cage as a hedgehog impersonator?

Given the choice, neither of the two options.

However, it's been my experience that once things have deteriorated
to that extent, there's not enough time for a controlled reaction.
Generally, I tumble, and only once, while rolling, did I ever have
time to think "I want to stop rolling now." Luckily, before I could
attempt to stop (don't ask me how I planned to do this), I heard the
motorcycle rolling and bouncing behind me. I just relaxed and kept
going; the bike stopped before I did.

For some reason, I feel more comfortable falling to the left.
(I also prefer turning left, for those keeping count :-)

Art
arturo@informix.com
From: egreen@east.sun.com (Ed Green - Pixel Cruncher)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
Subject: Re: Saturday night COPS on FOX
Date: 20 Nov 1992 16:05:39 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, RTP, NC
Distribution: world
Reply-To: egreen@east.sun.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: laser.east.sun.com

In article 19139@tcsi.com, markk@tcs.com (Mark Kromer) writes:
>egreen@east (Ed Green - Pixel Cruncher) writes:
>
>>I didn't have to appear to be there.  The ONLY way you can obtain such
>>a figure is by playing games with accident statistics and total milage
>>statistics and averaging the numbers and dividing the averages to get
>>an "accidents per mile" number.
>
>I only needed (and offered) hypothetical figures for my argument, and
>I can make those up.  I don't need statistics or averages to make my
>point.

True, you don't need statistics or averages to lie, which is what your
"point" amounts to.  Further, you are *representing* your figures as
statistically accurate numbers, presumably arrived at from averaging
valid data, which is another lie.  So, you lie to make your lie sound
good.

>>It is just as valid and accurate as saying "every cigarette you smoke
>>cuts n minutes off the end of your life."
>
>More like:  
>Let's say every cigarette you smoke cuts n minutes off the end of your
>life.  Would that cigarette be worth those n minutes?

Another deceit.  I'm sure you think the "let's say" qualifier allows
you invent any number and propose any correlation you want with
impunity.  While perhaps not technically a "lie," it is certainly
dishonest.

---
Ed Green, former Ninjaite |I was drinking last night with a biker,
  Ed.Green@East.Sun.COM   |and I showed him a picture of you.  I said,
DoD #0111  (919)460-8302  |"Go on, get to know her, you'll like her!"
 (The Grateful Dead) -->  |It seemed like the least I could do...

From: alexb@hpwrce.mayfield.hp.com (H. Alex Balogi)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 00:01:07 GMT
Subject: Re: Best bikes of '73
Organization: the HP Mtn.View Resp. Cntr.
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles

re Moto Guzzi stuff. I've had a 1974 Eldorado LAPD since '74. I've been
coast to coast, border to border with it and I would not trade it for 
almost anything else (within reason of course). I've had lots of parts
and assemblies wear out,wear down and fall off but it NEVER screwed me
by doing something unexpected (like dieing unresarectably in the middle
of a desert or traffic jam). God knows Iv'e done my share of REALY stupid
things on this scooter but it has ALWAYS been civilized back to me.
Another interesting mount is a 1978 LeMans 850. I got mine in a bunch of boxes  and I put it together with all the wrong tools. It did over 130 MPH!! Lots
of parts fell off (!) but it was still fun.
good choice and good luck!

Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
From: parr@acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr)
Subject: Re: Cycle World: the Pot Calling the Kettl
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 21:22:12 GMT
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta

In article <1ee041INN8l1@sixgun.East.Sun.COM> egreen@east.sun.com writes:
>In article 21006@acs.ucalgary.ca, parr@acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr) writes:
>>
>>Christ on a jetski, man, 
>
>I thought he was the ONLY one who wouldn't need one...

Well sure, Ed, he could walk on water...But look at it this way,
if *you* were in a hurry would you want to walk or ride your
bike?

I realise this is purely theoretical for you, at this stage.

Regards, Charles

Ps: Ed, if you drive up to get it, you can have my GS400
for free. It needs new tires and a bottom end clutch
cable hookup. streetable for under 200$ guaranteed.

This is a serious offer, btw, and applies to Ed only...

Charles
-- 
Within the span of the last few weeks I have heard elements of
separate threads which, in that they have been conjoined in time,
struck together to form a new chord within my hollow and echoing
gourd. --Unknown net.person
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
From: fleckens@plains.NoDak.edu (Clint Fleckenstein)
Subject: Re: Saturday night COPS on FOX
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 00:56:49 GMT
Organization: North Dakota Higher Ed Computing Network

In article <RTARAZ.92Nov14211852@bigwpi.WPI.EDU> rtaraz@bigwpi.WPI.EDU (Ramin Taraz) writes:
>I was just watching cops on fox and they had a report on an accident
>after they showed that the victom was about 40 feet away from the
>seen, I was sure that it was a car-bike accident.

[...]

>I might want to stop riding my bike.  I have always though about the
>possibility of getting into an accident and losing some body parts,
>but it is different when you see it happen!

I got that way for a while too.  A girl I met told me a story of how
her grandfather soiled his new Caddy while taking an injured cycle
passenger, AND HER LEG, to a hospital after seeing the accident.

Motorcycling is a way of life, not a way of death.  There are those
who are safe all the time, and those that live life.  If I die on
my cycle, the face they scrape off the pavement will still be in a
smile.

I figure it's my responsibility to be prepared for whatever situation
I will encounter, in motorcycling or anything else.  If I run into a
situation I can't possibly have been prepared for, then there is no
sense in worrying about it.  

>I was shaken up a little.

A friend of mine ate it in the S-turns of our local expressway this
summer.  It settled us down for at least a half hour.  We were doing
the speed limit, btw.

>|\\//\\//\\//|       1988 EX500 (missed dearly until spring)    | a good day| |

Clint


then again,there are those that maintain that wheelies, etc. make you
pay closer attention, and thus help you ride more defensively.  I just
call myself lucky.
 __________________________________________________________________________
 Clint Fleckenstein   <fleckens@plains.nodak.edu> <fleckens@NDSUVM1.BITNET>
 Master Control/Operations, KFYR TV 5 / KQCD TV 7              .5k EX Pilot  
 My login and conduct don't belong to Meyer Broadcasting.         DoD #5150  
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles,sci.physics
From: markk@tcs.com (Mark Kromer)
Subject: Re: PHYSICS OF STEERING (long) (was Re: What would you ride on a long...)
Followup-To: rec.motorcycles
Originator: markk@sparcplug
Reply-To: markk@tcs.com (Mark Kromer)
Organization: Teknekron Communications Inc.
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 02:32:03 GMT

In article <1992Nov23.192440.11596@spdc.ti.com>, crowder@epcot (Mark Crowder) writes:

>  Get a ruler (or some rather long, flat, uniform object) and find a
>smooth surface (one that the ruler will slide easily on).  Place your
>finger near one end of the ruler and give it a quick side-ways
>(perpendicular to its length) push.  Note two things.  1) It does *not*
>rotate about its cm *while* you are pushing it -- it rotates about a
>point 2/3 of its length away from the end you pushed.  2) It *does*
>rotate about its cm after you stop pushing it.  To find out why this
>happens, look up "moment of inertia" in your favorite physics text.
>  The contact patch on the front tire of a motorcycle applies this type
>of tourque about the longitudinal axis of the bike during a turn
>transition.  Unless the front wheel loses traction, condition "1)" above
>always applies in the case of motorcycle (i.e. the road never 'lets
>go').  The point of this is (you *knew* there was a point , right?) that
>This effect will tend to make the bike roll about a point *above* its
>cm.  Ponder that for a while.

True.  Almost.

To look at it another way, the force generated by the tires can be
resolved into a force acting through the cm and a pure moment.  The
moment causes the body to rotate about the cm.  The force acting
through the cm accelerates the cm in the direction the wheels are
steered.  For a motorcycle you must also take into account the
contribution of gyroscopic precession which would tend to counteract
the effects of the force, thereby rendering the Jedi helpless.

You must also take into account the acceleration of the cm due to gravity
made significent by the displacement of the contact patch due to trail
and the increasing lean angle.  You will find that the instanteanous
roll center is not on the bike centerline and often not even on the
bike.  It will probably be somewhere to the side of the bike on the
outside of the turn you are hoping to make.

--
- )V(ark)<  FZR400 Pilot / ZX900 Payload / RD400 Mechanic  DoD #400
You're about to see 5 semesters of Mechanical Engr FLY into action.
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles