From: Thomas.Sullivan@cs.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: (long) Re: suicide- is it a sin in God's eyes.
Date: 18 Nov 92 09:16:34 GMT

Excerpts from netnews.soc.religion.christian: 17-Nov-92 Re: suicide- is
it a sin in.. Peter Farrell@afterlife. (1685)

> These days, suicide is usually being considered in the context of someone
> who wants to throw the life they were given back in God's face. Now popular
> among the cultural elite these days is the notion of "assisted suicide"
> and other forms of self-destruction as a right or prerogative.

I don't know, most of the cases of suicide I've heard about are not
people "throwing the package back at God", they are people who are
really in despair and just don't think they can go on living in this world
or their environment the way it is for them.

> I'd like to toss one of the first easily debateable ideas out that if a
> person is giving their life for a friend, family or God, perhaps not.
> But if a person is hurling the package back at God in disgust, probably
> so.

I think that considering suicide as a sin really insults the notion of God as
a loving, all-forgiving being.  It is very easy for someone who has not
hurt to the point of considering suicide, or who has not known someone
who has been to that point, to make blanket statements like "suicide is
a sin" or "suicide is throwing God's most precious gift back into his face".
People don't consider suicide unless they are really at an extremely low 
point in their lives.  I think God knows more about what is going on in 
these people's lives than we humans on the outside of their minds looking
in.  We really shouldn't be judging their actions, especially if we consider
ourselves Christians.  What they do is between themselves and their
God.  I think God probably has a pretty good handle on the situation.

If you have ever known someone who committed suicide, the last thing
you want to hear other people tell you is that God thinks they are a sinner
for doing so. This is an extremely incompassionate thing to say to the
loved ones of a suicide victim.  You should offer your support to them 
instead, helping them through a most difficult situation that often leads them
to guilty feelings themselves ("was *I* the cause?", "why didn't I see that
they were at this point?", "why didn't I do anything to stop it?"). 
Very often,
a suicide victim doesn't let it be known that s/he is considering this.  

> If we take upon ourselves the notion that a human life created by God to
> be lived in accordance with His wishes is really something we can do with
> whatever we want regardless, we've really worked past the specific matter
> of suicide to the underlying matter of who owns that life ultimately.

I believe that God gave us a free will.  With that comes a basic instinct of
survival.  For some people, the pain of living their life gets beyond that
instinct for survival.  I don't think this is a slur against God, I just
think that
different people have a different level of survival instinct, and what one
person can "tough out" another may not be able to.  Saying that a person
who kills themself is going against some accordance that God states is
I think being ignorant of the situation leading to the suicidal tendency.

> Hence the dilemma of our society; once enough people
> have convinced themselves that God either doesn't exist or doesn't care,
> where are the moral bulwarks to prevent the ethic of suicide?  Preoccupation
> with the self ultimately arrives at one of its most horrible and logical
> conclusions. 

>> -- 
>> Peter Farrell		

Once again, if someone decides to commit suicide, they haven't necessarily
decided that God doesn't exist or doesn't care.  They may believe in God
very heavily and feel that they cannot endure the pain of their current
situation and want (or need) to be with God sooner. 

Please people, I'm not condoning suicide.  I think it is a very sad thing that
it ever occurs.  I just think that instead of dealing with it by condemning it,
we should try to be there for people considering it, to give them another
option.  We may not know who it is that is considering it and who isn't 
though, but if we are living a life of love, forgiveness, compassion, and
non-judgementalness (a word??) then the chances of us making a
difference for those people or them having someplace to turn is all that
much greater.  

I've done a lot of thinking about suicide since my dad killed himself 17 
years ago (I was 12 at the time).  He was an extremely loving person who
very much believed in God.   I didn't understand things at the time, but I
know a lot more about the situation now, and I fully believe that he is
with God now.  

So try to be understanding about suicide and what leads to it.  Often it
is induced by an uncaring and judgemental society which does not allow 
people to express their problems when they have them or to be 
themselves.

Sorry about the length of this, it went on longer than I had expected.

--Tom