HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pswanson@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Paul Swanson)
Subject: Re: Socialism, again (was Re: Derailing the Reagan...)
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 19:57:55 GMT

In article <1992Aug24.200445.16384@hsv3.lsil.com> mvp@hsv3.lsil.com (Mike Van Pelt) writes:
>In article <1992Aug20.124634.27340@cs.ruu.nl> rkunenbo@cs.ruu.nl (Ronald Kunenborg) writes:
>>I don't think you quite understood what he meant. "From each according to
>>ability, to each according to need". And not decided by little committees,
>>but by the people themselves.
>
>Socialists and Marxists of various kinds seem to think of this little
>formula as some kind of ideal.  The more I think about it, though, the
>more pernicious it seems.  What you've got is a formula for slavery.
>
This little formula seems to describe how a 'family' works!  Perhaps
this is the only level at which communism will work.  The real question
is: Does this mean I'm a Hillary Clinton supporter by comparing the
family with slavery or that the Republicans are closet communists with
their family values theme?

Paul.
Xref: sparky alt.activism:15685 talk.politics.misc:42856
Newsgroups: alt.activism,talk.politics.misc
From: mfriedma@uucp (Michael Friedman)
Subject: Re: "Lies Work"
Organization: Oracle Corporation
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 22:47:00 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <92243.163225SML108@psuvm.psu.edu> SML108@psuvm.psu.edu writes:
>Various brouhaha about who claims what deleted...

>Here's how I see it...

>Bush makes invalid claim about Clinton raising taxes 128 times...

>Clinton responds that by same criteria, Bush did it 327 times...

>Third party says real score is Clinton 59, Bush 78...

>Now here's the clincher.  The way I see it, Clinton was not lying because
>he had already stated the criteria was bogus and was merely showing that
>if you apply the same Bu1!$h|+ to Bush, he's even worse...

Excuse me, but don't you think 327 vs. 78 is significant?  I just love
the way the Clinton weenies bend over backwards to pretend that their
idol always tells the truth.

Next thing I expect to hear is that it wasn't George Washington and
the cherry tree but that it was really Slick Willie.
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am not an official Oracle spokesman.  I speak for myself and no one else.
From: Dorothy Morse <dmorse@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: alt.activism
Date: 27 Aug 92 19:24 PDT
Subject: Re: SOMALIA action materials and news
Nf-ID: #R:cdp:1296500303:cdp:1296500317:000:1347
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!dmorse    Aug 27 19:24:00 1992


Here is the quote from the Austin American-Statesman, a Cox Newspaper,
for August 21, 1991 (page A2).

The article is entitled
"Criticism, hitches, mar US aid to Somalia."

The byline is "compiled from News Services."

The dateline is Nairobi, Kenya."

The relevant paragraph is:

"As for the 145,000 tons of additional relief food announced by the White
House last week, it will not be available until after the next federal fiscal
year begins October 1.  Given customary delays in ordering and shippping, that
means most of that food will not arrive in the region until late in the fall.":  
I called the newspaper and talked to the man who wrote the story.  His name
is David Forest, and he stands by it, although he says the wire reports
from which he composed it are no longer on their computer.  He believes
the story came from the Los Angeles Times of August 21.

He says that US aid flights into Somalia will start tomorrow--previous
flights have been into Northern Kenya.  I asked what food was being delivered
if the 145,000 tons would not be available until October 1.  He said
"Stuff collected from other people, and stuff they already had on hand."

Tomorrow, according to the commander of the US military operation for
Somalia, Frank Libutti , the US planes will take off before dawn and attempt
to fly food to Belethuen in Somalia.
Newsgroups: alt.activism
Subject: Re: Boom Boom Boom Boom :)
From: rivero@mdcbbs.com
Date: 27 Aug 92 10:26:32 GMT
Organization: Electronic Data Systems, Unigraphics Division, Cypress CA
Nntp-Posting-User: rivero

In article <1992Aug26.135832.7406@linus.mitre.org>, bwise@hemlock.mitre.org (Barry Wise) writes:
> In article <1992Aug26.040745.3040@pony.Ingres.COM> garrett@Ingres.COM (QUOTE OF  
> THE YEAR) writes:
>> This isn't meant as a flame, but I seem to remember that after everyone
>> one these "boom" periods there was a severe recession. 
>> Does anyone have a theory on this?
> 
> An engineer would call it overshoot.  In a "boom" you have alot of demand  
> chasing too little supply.  Everyone gears up to get in on the action,but   
> because of the incomplete knowledge of what everyone else is doing, an  
> oversupply condition is created. The excess demand  is satisfied, leaving  
> excess capacity and a depression. Speculation, I think, causes the wild swings.  

  It's simpler than that. Any system controlled by positive feedback
will develop severe oscillations, and yet there is no economic process
in use that DOESN'T act as positive feedback. Aside from that. there are
numerous institutions which actually derive product from economic swings.
These institutions have a vested interest in keeping the economy
unstable, puping like a giant heartbeat.

  The Japanese have a phrase for such econpmic practices. They call it the
belief (typical of Americans) that if you move the money side to side with
enough vigor, it will grow in value all by itself. As they 80's greenmail
and arbitrage binge showed, a tiny few individuals became fabulously wealthy
by helping to drive the nation into a decline, selling off our manufacturing
base, taking the profits offshore, and leaving the cost of
the cleanup to the average taxpayer.

  


<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
|  Michael Rivero rivero@mdcbbs.com  Middle-Aged Mutant Ninja Animator   |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
From: dliebman@terapin.com (David Liebman)
Newsgroups: alt.activism
Subject: Re: Well Mr. Dyer?
Date: 26 Aug 92 09:16:02 GMT
Organization: BBS

In article <1992Aug25.012221.11897@oracle.us.oracle.com>, mfriedma@uucp
(Michael Friedman) writes:
>In article <1992Aug24.210146.28742@oracle.us.oracle.com>
rchilder@us.oracle.com 
>(Richard Childers) writes:
>>aws@iti.org (Allen W. Sherzer) writes:
>
>>>I asked you if you would mind having people email and call you to express
>>>their displeasure with your postings. I assume not since you don't mind
>>>doing it to others but just wanted to make sure. Yet you have been
>>>strangsly silent on this issue. How about it?
>
>>I still see little connection between calling an 800 number, publically
>>available for expressedly that purpose, 
>
>Why is an individual different from a company in this context?
>

typically, the behavior of a corporation will affect more lives more radically
than will the opinions of an individual.

>> For one thing, [corporations have] no conscience.
>
>So?  Why is the existence or lack of a conscience relevant?

it's the sort of thing you got to have to understand.


> Anyway,
>the company's owners and employess have consciences and they set policy.

conscience mediated by self-interest.


please consult Thoreau's _Civil Disobediance_ for remedial studies.


regards,
dave
Xref: sparky alt.activism:15913 talk.politics.misc:43711 soc.culture.latin-america:3298
From: harelb@MATH.CORNELL.EDU (misc.activism.progressive co-moderator)
Newsgroups: alt.activism,talk.politics.misc,soc.culture.latin-america
Subject: Who Were the "Contras" ? (IV)
Date: 4 Sep 92 07:33:05 GMT
Organization: misc.activism.progressive on UseNet ; ACTIV-L@UMCVMB

Who Were the "Contras" ? (IV)

"There can be no doubt, on the basis of what we head and saw, that a
PLANNED STRATEGY OF TERRORISM is being carried out by the contras
along the Honduras border"

        --Chairmen of Americas Watch and Helsinki Watch, after a
        personal visit to study the "great divergence between President
        Reagan's rhetoric and the conclusions of the [Americas Watch]
        report" on contra atrocities. Orville Schell and Robert
        Bernstein, Wall St. Journal, April 23, 1985.

[Capitalization added]


 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
   -->  [Send the 1-line message GET WHO-WERE CONTRAS ACTIV-L to ]
        [LISTSERV@UMCVMB.BITNET for a copy of the complete file  ]
   -->  [Send GET ACTIV-L ARCHIVE ACTIV-L to above address for a ]
        [listing with brief descriptions of other files available]
 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -



            =============================================
            T h e   " N i c a r a g u a   L i b r a r y "
            =============================================

*
* =========
* Nicaragua
* =========
*
  WHO-WERE CONTRAS    Contras' origins; make-up; practices - documented
  FSLN     H-RIGHTS  Documented HRs comparison w/Somoza,Guat,ES,others
  FSLN     MISKITOS  Sandinista treatment of Miskitos;Charges & Realit
  FSLN     NICAJEWS  Debunks charges of Sandinista 'Anti-Semitism'
*
  OXFAM84  NICARAG   Oxfam America's 1984 report on Nicaragua, in full
  FSLN     ACHIEVE   Documented: achievements of the Nica. revolution
*
  NICA-84  ELECTION  Documented: Fair under Sandinistas; US subversion
  FAIRNESS NICA-USA  Flwup:`Is Nicaragua More Democratic than the US?'
  NICRAGUA ELECTION  Study in US subversion of '90 Nicaraguan election

NOTE:

======================================
To get a file named FILE NAME from the
archiver (files are two words  separa-
ted by a space), send the 1-line message

GET FILE NAME ACTIV-L

to: LISTSERV@UMCVMB.BITNET
[or: LISTSERV@UMCVMB.MISSOURI.EDU]
======================================

Use GET with the file ACTIV-L ARCHIVE for a listing of
files available with the GET command.
From: lcypher@nuchat.sccsi.com (Louis Cypher)
Subject: Re: "Lies Work"
Organization: /etc/organization
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 19:41:08 GMT

In article <1992Aug31.100930.2035@iti.org> aws@iti.org (Allen W. Sherzer) writes:
>In article <1992Aug30.233852.3614@midway.uchicago.edu> thf2@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>
>>As long as the phrase contains "by the criteria the Bush people use",
>>the claim of 327 is truthful.
>
>No it is not. According to the Congressional Research Service the
>number for Bush (using the same criteria) is 78, not the 327
>claimed by Clinton.
>    Allen

Then where did Bush get the number 128? they said by the same criteria that
Clinton raised taxes 59 times to bush's 78...Let's think here..Bush said 128,
but it was actually 59....Clinton said by Bush's criteria(assuming he means
the criteria that allowed him to come up with the number 128), that Bush had
raised taxes 327 times....

*SO*, the truth is that bush raised taxes *MORE* in 4 years, then clinton did
in *12*....


Newsgroups: alt.activism,soc.college,talk.politics.misc
From: lemson@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (David Lemson)
Subject: Re: The Big Lie (PC)
Followup-To: talk.religion
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 02:37:15 GMT

adams@spss.com (Steve Adams) writes:

>Define 'white'.  Hmm.  I could have sworn that Semites are Caucasoid.

>And, given the current usage, since we've seemed to have dropped 'Negro'
>and 'Caucasoid' for 'Black' and 'White', I didn't make a mistake.

>Fool.  Go study a bit before you make assumptions that are dead wrong.

>Speaking of which, Christ, as God, is not any color...he just happened to
>be a Jewish (ie white) carpenter in His incarnation.

What the hell does 'Jewish (ie white)' mean?  You are making
yourself out to be the fool here.  Obviously you have never heard of
dark-skinned Jews.  (or you are one of the many uneducated people
I've met who think that 'Jewish' is a RACE)
(BTW, for those of you who still believe that Judaism is a race, let
me ask you - can you BECOME white if you are black?  can you BECOME
Jewish if you are <insert religion here>?  I thought so.)
BTW, take it out of soc.college...
-- 
David Lemson                                                 (217) 244-1205
University of Illinois NeXT Campus Consultant  / CCSO NeXT Lab System Admin
Internet : lemson@uiuc.edu                 UUCP :...!uiucuxc!uiucux1!lemson 
NeXTMail accepted                                   BITNET : LEMSON@UIUCVMD
From: michaels@m2xenix.psg.com (Michael Sandy)
Newsgroups: alt.activism,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: "Lies Work"
Date: 3 Sep 92 08:21:07 GMT
Organization: Pacific Systems Group, Portland Oregon US

My favorite example of a "raised tax", which the Republicans, (Black),
are _defending_ is the famous, "Extending dog racing season raises
taxes."

By the same token, increasing the income of _any_ business that is
taxed is "increasing taxes".  By that token, Bush can be proud to
say he would raise taxes less than Clinton.  :*)



-- 
Michael Sandy
michaels@m2xenix.psg.com
"Going to teach someone a lesson" is a very interesting English phrase.
It obliterates the altruistic connotation of 'teaching'.
Newsgroups: alt.activism,misc.education,ct.general,conn.general
From: Chris.Holt@newcastle.ac.uk (Chris Holt)
Newsgroups: alt.activism
Subject: Re: Lies"Lies Work"
Date: 30 Aug 92 15:37:43 GMT
Organization: University of Newcastle upon Tyne, UK, NE1 7RU

aws@iti.org (Allen W. Sherzer) writes:
>In article <1992Aug29.201427.16408@news.ysu.edu> ae277@yfn.ysu.edu (Stewart Rowe) writes:

>>Clinton's aides said that the correct count was 59 times; on the same
>>criteria, they said, Bush had raised taxes 327 times.

>The Congressional Research Service says that Bush raised taxes 78
>times using the same criteria, not 327. If Bush is a lier, then
>Clinton is an even bigger one.

Uh, let me get this straight.  Bush starts the whole thing with the
128 to 1 comparison.  Clinton responds with a 59 to 327 ratio.
Someone else says the right ratio is 59? to 78.  So the end result
is that Clinton is morally culpable, even though Bush started the
whole thing.  Sometimes I despair of American politics...

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Chris.Holt@newcastle.ac.uk      Computing Lab, U of Newcastle upon Tyne, UK
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Still shone the candlelight on the empty screen, after the power went.
Newsgroups: alt.activism
From: mvp@netcom.com (Mike Van Pelt)
Subject: Re: LaRouchians as Fascists!
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 92 01:28:52 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <1296500306@igc.apc.org> NLG Civil Liberties Committee <cberlet@igc.apc.org> writes:

Fascinating expose' on LaRouche.  Good stuff.  Seems to be from a
somewhat left-of-center slant, but (aside from a couple of very
strange uses of the word "conservative" here and there) seems
pretty on-target.  I'm lookin forward to coming installments.

I've always thought that LaRouche was living proof that there is no
significant difference between the bizarroid nutzo left and the
bizarroid nutzo right.
-- 
Mike Van Pelt          | What happens if a big asteroid hits Earth?
mvp@netcom.com         | Judging from realistic simulations involving a
                       | sledge hammer and a common laboratory frog, we
                       | can assume it will be pretty bad. -- Dave Barry
Newsgroups: alt.activism
From: aws@iti.org (Allen W. Sherzer)
Subject: Re: Lies"Lies Work"
Organization: Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 18:08:36 GMT

In article <BtszEv.MnK@newcastle.ac.uk> Chris.Holt@newcastle.ac.uk (Chris Holt) writes:

>Uh, let me get this straight.  Bush starts the whole thing with the
>128 to 1 comparison.  Clinton responds with a 59 to 327 ratio.
>Someone else says the right ratio is 59? to 78.  

No, they didn[t say anything about Clinton, they simply said that
Bush, using the exact same criteria, did it 78 times. Clinton claims\
327.

>So the end result
>is that Clinton is morally culpable, even though Bush started the
>whole thing.

If by that you mean Clinton is guilty of what he accuses Bush of,
then yes. Why is that so hard a concept for you?

  Allen
-- 
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Allen W. Sherzer | "If they can put a man on the Moon, why can't they     |
|  aws@iti.org     |  put a man on the Moon?"                               |
+----------------------236 DAYS TO FIRST FLIGHT OF DCX----------------------+
Newsgroups: alt.activism,talk.politics.misc
From: aws@iti.org (Allen W. Sherzer)
Subject: Re: The Crimes of Nicaragua
Organization: Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 02:41:36 GMT

In article <1992Sep2.151515.3868@desire.wright.edu> demon@desire.wright.edu (Stupendous Man) writes:

>	Spekaing of damning with faint praise :), why didn't Oxfam protest the
>Sandinista land theft at the end of their term?

Maybe they did. After all, do you think Harel would admit it if they did?

   Allen

-- 
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Allen W. Sherzer | "If they can put a man on the Moon, why can't they     |
|  aws@iti.org     |  put a man on the Moon?"                               |
+----------------------233 DAYS TO FIRST FLIGHT OF DCX----------------------+
From: dliebman@terapin.com (David Liebman)
Newsgroups: alt.activism
Subject: Re: "Lies Work"
Date: 31 Aug 92 06:58:08 GMT
Organization: BBS

In article <1992Aug30.224700.15365@oracle.us.oracle.com>, mfriedma@uucp
(Michael Friedman) writes:
>In article <92243.163225SML108@psuvm.psu.edu> SML108@psuvm.psu.edu writes:
>>Various brouhaha about who claims what deleted...
>
>>Here's how I see it...
>
>>Bush makes invalid claim about Clinton raising taxes 128 times...
>
>>Clinton responds that by same criteria, Bush did it 327 times...
>
>>Third party says real score is Clinton 59, Bush 78...
>
>>Now here's the clincher.  The way I see it, Clinton was not lying because
>>he had already stated the criteria was bogus and was merely showing that
>>if you apply the same Bu1!$h|+ to Bush, he's even worse...
>
>Excuse me, but don't you think 327 vs. 78 is significant?  I just love
>the way the Clinton weenies bend over backwards to pretend that their
>idol always tells the truth.

if i say this: 'i am about to lie: you have a firm grasp of elementary
logic' -- do you take it to mean that i am asserting that you have a firm
grasp of elementary logic?
From: lcypher@nuchat.sccsi.com (Louis Cypher)
Subject: Re: "Lies Work"
Organization: /etc/organization
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 08:23:12 GMT

In article <1992Aug30.224700.15365@oracle.us.oracle.com> mfriedma@uucp (Michael Friedman) writes:
>In article <92243.163225SML108@psuvm.psu.edu> SML108@psuvm.psu.edu writes:
>
>>Third party says real score is Clinton 59, Bush 78...
>
>>Now here's the clincher.  The way I see it, Clinton was not lying because
>>he had already stated the criteria was bogus and was merely showing that
>>if you apply the same Bu1!$h|+ to Bush, he's even worse...
>
>Excuse me, but don't you think 327 vs. 78 is significant?  I just love
>the way the Clinton weenies bend over backwards to pretend that their
>idol always tells the truth.
>

hmm...Well..yes I do think that 327 to 78 is signifigant...also 128 to 59
is signifigant as well...*ALSO*, Clinton raised taxes 59 times in *12*
years...Bush 78 in *4*....I think that is the main signifigance...that
Bush raised taxes more in 4 years, then Clinton did in 12...How can
Bush even begin to whine about "128, 128, 128, 128, 128", when the truth
is, *HE* raised taxes more than Clinton did?
From: Dorothy Morse <dmorse@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: alt.activism
Date: 27 Aug 92 18:40 PDT
Subject: Re: SOMALIA action materials and news
Nf-ID: #R:cdp:1296500303:cdp:1296500313:000:1182
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!dmorse    Aug 27 18:40:00 1992


Monday, August 24, 1992, I spoke with Leah Arnold at the Doctors Without
Borders office in New York.  I asked her if she felt that governnment officials
respond to the Somalian crisis when there is public pressure, and she said
it seems to be that way.

I asked her, "What is the best thing we can do?"

She said, "Just keep shouting about it, that there is a need in Somalia."

She then faxed me the media alert sent out by Doctors Without Borders
on Friday August 21, 1992.

Here is the second paragraph of that alert:

"Horror has taken a step further here," said a member of the Doctors Without
Borders team that conducted the first fact-finding mission in the villages
between Baidoba and Bardehra in western Somalia.  "Most villages are empty,
destroyed, or burnt down.  Only larger villages are still inhabited; they now
accommodate thousands of displaced familis, farmers who have lost everything.
Many of them eat their clothes or sheepskin bags.  There is a dramatic
shortage of water. People are drinking from puddles, which are gradually
drying up.  Dead bodies lay scattered on the dirt track--they did not
have the strength to keep on walking."

Please see next post.

Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.society.revolution
From: demon@desire.wright.edu (Stupendous Man)
Newsgroups: alt.activism,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Harel posts a particularly clumsy
Date: 31 Aug 92 17:50:46 GMT
 <1992Aug31.104653.12667@anomaly.sbs.risc.net> <1992Aug31.124934.3819@desire.wright.edu>
Organization: Demonic Possesions, Inc.

In article <1992Aug31.124934.3819@desire.wright.edu>, demon@desire.wright.edu (Stupendous Man) writes:
 In article <1992Aug31.104653.12667@anomaly.sbs.risc.net>, kd1hz@anomaly.sbs.risc.net (Michael P. Deignan) writes:
> dliebman@terapin.com (David Liebman) writes:
> 
>>the united states has a higher infant mortality rate than all of the other
>>'industrialized' states, including canada, japan, all the western european
>>nations.
> 
> So? Please provide direct evidence that the infant mortality rate in the
> US is directly related to the health-care system, and not some other factor,
> such as high drug usage or population-stupidity.
> 
> You cannot pick an effect and link it to a cause just because you "will it"
> to be so.
 
 	As an example, let's look at the great improvement in care for
 premature babies.
 
 	Before, they would simply die and not be counted as live births, or
 live for a short while.  In either case I don't think they were counted in
 infant mortality numbers.
 
 	Now, however, premature babies have an excellent chance of living, and
 most live for days if not weeks.  However, there is still a large number that
 die, and are counted in the infant mortality numbers.
 
 	A similar effect can be seen in college board exams.  Since 1972 more
 and more students have been taking the exams.  Before only those who were
 certain of going to college, or those looking for scholarships/entrance into
 selective colleges would take the exams.  Now, however, entire graduating
 classes are encouraged to take the exams. (Gee, I bet the college board people
 hate that :).
 
 	Of course a lot of them are not qualified for college-level material
 and do bad on the exams, bringing down the score average.  Hardly an indictment
 of US education.  It does, however, call into question the rubber-stamping of
 progression from one grade to the next in the US school system.
 
Brett                                                      
_______________________________________________________________________________
Proconsul Computer Consulting                                        CHA-CHING!
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Xref: sparky alt.activism:15801 misc.headlines:6140 talk.politics.misc:43207 talk.environment:3467 alt.save.the.earth:1109 alt.politics.elections:12160