HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: lapoint@adios.brl.mil (Claude LaPointe )
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: Is high priced CD player worth the money?
Date: 22 Dec 92 13:31:32 GMT


An added note to my earlier response, wherein I related my personal
experience in purchasing a $8K system and deciding the NAD CD machine
is terrible.

Received this as a private response, and am forwarding to the net in
the hope it may assist the original poster, and perhaps others.

   Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 20:00:05 -0500
   From: Amir Kishon <kishon-amir@CS.YALE.EDU>
   Full-Name: Amir Kishon
   To: lapoint@adios.brl.mil (Claude LaPointe )
   In-Reply-To: lapoint@adios.brl.mil's message of 21 Dec 92 20:39:11 GMT
   Subject: Re: Is high priced CD player worth the money?
   
   I had the same experience and I also changed from NAD to CAL. The
   differences were amazing. -Amir
From: cmh@eng.cam.ac.uk (C.M. Hicks)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: WHY NOT USE A BIGGER DISK FOR SONY MD?
Date: 23 Dec 92 12:27:16 GMT
Organization: cam.eng

shiv@bnr.ca (Shiv Naimpally) writes:

>Gee if Sony used a bigger disk for MD, eg. the size of a CD then
>they would no longer have to use ATRAC for data compression but
>could record full bandwidth on the disk. It would have also meant
>they wouldn't have a proprietary format. The last thing Sony wants
>is to be compatible.

Sony wanted to design a system that was more portable than CD, and they have
done that with MD. What you have described is almost CD-R which is currently
available in pro-audio outlets, but which is not portable. (For anyone who
doesn't know, CD-R is a once-recordable CD-like medium. Having been recorded
and given a TOC (table of contents) the discs may be played on a standard CD
player).

>At least with DCC, Phillips wanted compatibility with standard 
>cassettes and so had to use data compression to acomplish it.

This is only partially true. They wanted back compatibilty as a shrewd
marketing move. This is not really the *reason* they had to use compression.
DAT, after all, stores more music on a smaller tape than DCC *without*
compression.

>MD will go into the 'Sony Hall of Shame' along with Elcassette, Beta,
>etc..

I hope not - it is a much more flexible system than DCC (IMHO).

Christopher

--
 ==============================================================================
 Christopher Hicks    |    If it doesn't fit...
 cmh@uk.ac.cam.eng    |                        ...you need a bigger hammer.
 ==============================================================================
From: dave@news.ccutah.edu (dave martin)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: TAS article; comments please?
Date: 4 Jan 93 04:30:34 GMT
Organization: University of Utah Computer Center
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

Be prepared for a footnote questioning your intellegence (or other qualities)
TAS rarely admits error.  (I found it extremly amusing last year when there
january issue didn't appear until march, then they apologized for it in the
next issue and promised that the january issue would be the last late one.
the issue containing the apology was itself one or two months late, going
by the cover date vs. its appearance at the newsstand.  I think magazines
should appear the same month they are dated, I don't like it when the
februrary issue is in my mailbox by the first half of december.  TAS and
stereophile are usually pretty good about matching up dates.)

TAS seems to think they are always right and usually letter writers with
other points of view get nasty footnotes.  They were asked in letters to
please quit the juvenile bashing of stereophile.  We only bash stereophile
because they bash us was the reply.  I have been reading both, and whenever
TAS is mentioned in stereophile, its polite.  Not so the other way around.
(in fact, i've never actually seen Sp bash TAS).  TAS is a little to far
on the subjective side for me.  I think that just because what I hear does
not show up in a measurement does not mean that it is not measurable.  I also
think that a lot of things which are not being measured affect sound.  I
prefer Sp to TAS in this regard.

Sorry this wondered off the subject.  I think its a good letter, just be
prepared to be stomped on by their footnote generator.

dave@csulx.weber.edu (ignore the header address, its probably wrong)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: bgan@bmerh136.bnr.ca (Bruce Gan)
Subject: Re: 'Bookshelf' Speakers???
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 02:16:32 GMT

I recently bought a pair of PSB Alphas for $200 Cdn which are excellent!
They are made in Toronto (I believe - somewhere in Canada for sure) so
I'm not sure how much they'll be in the States...  I was torn between the
B&W 201's (starter speakers) and the PSBs.  I found the imaging and
transparency to be slightly superior in the PSBs.  The B&W's had better 
bass and reproduced piano exquisitely.  I found the main deficiency in the
B&Ws to be the reproduction of the male voice (very personal opinion) plus
they were a hundred bucks more!!

Bruce
-----
My opinion, not my employer's... 
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: chancy@bank.ecn.purdue.edu (Venkatraman Chandrasekaran)
Subject: CD player
Keywords: Pioneer series, trade-ins
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 17:48:06 GMT


Hi Everybody

I am contemplating on buying a Pioneer CD player within the $250 range.
My choices are PD 201,501,601 and 701s. Anybody care to share their experiences
with these products. Although the 501,601 and 701s have multi-disc capability,
do they have a superior performance in comparison to a single-disc player?

I am also interested in trading-in my old CD player, if there is some place
I can do it.

Any info regarding these would be appreciated. Thanks and have a Merry X'mas.

- chandra

 chancy@bank.ecn.purdue.edu
Newsgroups: rec.audio,rec.video
From: shetline@bbn.com (Kerry Shetline)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: Analog CDs (was: CD Sound Quality)
Followup-To: rec.audio
Date: 27 Dec 1992 08:08:40 GMT
Organization: BBN
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com

In article <BzoKMn.4oB@ssesco.com>, nau@ssesco.com (William Nau) wrote:
> 
> Bob Myers writes:
> > Yes, that IS what LDs are; now why do you think this would be better than
> > any existing format?  The bandwidth?  They're certainly not very convenient
> > (too big), nor are they as durable as CDs (given the analog nature of the
> > signal, they're not nearly as forgiving of defects as the error-corrected
> > digital CD format).
> 
> I believe he ment to indicate that the method used to record 1 hour of video
> on a LD could be condensed to a much smaller (5") disk for 75 minutes of
> audio.  This would give you an analogue recording with the convience of
> a CD.  I find the idea interesting and would be interested in the audio
> quality.

Those troubled by digital recording (myself NOT included) seem to put a lot
of
importance into some mystic information that might be dropped out between
the bits. In that case, analog laser discs should not be very appealing.
Although a
laser disc signal is not digital, it is binary -- that is, the laser is
either
reflected or not reflected from the surface of the disc. The signal
information
is contained in the analog duration of the on/off signals. The technique
used
to do this is FM square-wave modulation. On the standard video disc this
technique is not directly applied to the audio signal. Rather, the audio
information modulates two subcarriers (left and right channels) that are
mixed
with the video signal, and the whole mess is then transformed into FM
square-
wave form.

Ironically, the newer digital soundtracks are just another subcarrier, so
the digital information actually becomes part of the analog signal on a
laser disc.

-Kerry
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: baldwin@frodo.colorado.edu (Dan "Viper" Baldwin)
Subject: Another Sub Woofer question
Organization: Colorado Center for Astrodynamics Research
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 17:07:23 GMT


	I have a Yamaha RXV-850 reciever and an Infinity 10" subwoofer
powered with 100 Watts. From answers to a previous post, I have gathered
that to reap the maximum benifits from the sub-woofer, I need to include
a cross over so that signals going to the main speakers are devoid of
lower frequencies ( say < 200 HZ ). Doe the cross over connect to the high
level main speaker terminals of the reciever and then divide the signal
to the mains and the subwoofer ?  How much is a good crossover ? Where
does one get one ?  If there is a choice of roll over frequencies, where
is a good cut off ? My main speakers are Klipsh Forte I .
  
Thanks for any responses,
Dan Baldwin  baldwin@frodo.colorado.edu 
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: kchau@fraser.sfu.ca (Kwok Kwong Albert Chau)
Subject: Canadian Mail Order Experiences
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 03:43:54 GMT

A request for info from Canadians on the net.  I want to order a 
few goodies from Madisound and I was hoping that anybody north
of the 49th who has done so in the past can give me words of advice/
warning.  Specific concerns were clearing customs procedures, shipping
charges, and delivery times.

Alternatively, anybody know of any good (mail order) speaker sources
in Canada?

Replies via Email (to achau@mprgate.mpr.ca) please.

Thanx in advance.

Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: georgen@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (G. Ng)
Subject: Re: Is an expensive CD player worth the money?
Organization: UTCS Public Access
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 15:50:14 GMT

In article <1992Dec24.005619.22320@newstand.syr.edu> evan@top.cis.syr.edu (Evan Cheng) writes:
>...
>Claude,
>...
>Even if you still think that the NAD player is a bad news, don't declare
>their other products dead. Just about every audio company out there had
>made something less than perfect sometime along the line. But most of
>them still have good products (otherwise they won't be in business.)
>
>Evan Cheng
>evan@top.cis.syr.edu

Well said.

I'm not sure what the original thread was all about really but for my two
cents worth, I'm happy with my NAD 505 player and 705 receiver.  Looks great
too.  Had a few skipping problems with the first 505, but the audio shop
replaced it with one from a newer shipment.

happy holidays and CD listening,
gn
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: shiv@bnr.ca (Shiv Naimpally)
Subject: Re: High Efficiency Speakers
Reply-To: shiv@bnr.ca (Shiv Naimpally)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 18:06:50 GMT

In article <BzLH3H.3FH@cs.uiuc.edu>, gillies@cs.uiuc.edu (Don Gillies) writes:
|> I want to get rear-channel speakers for a Zenith television.  The
|> problem is, the T.V.'s amp is only about 5w, and I don't want to
|> spend a lot of money ($150 at the very most).  What are my options?
|> I thought about the following:
|> 
|> 1.  Buy powered speakers.  I heard some really bad SONY powered
|> speakers.  They were tinny and I didn't like the fact that there were
|> two separate volume controls.  The only decent SONY speakers had two
|> small channels and a subwoofer, for about $150.  Even so, they seemed
|> quite directional, which is not good.  Wouldn't a subwoofer be kind of
|> weird for a surround system?  Where would I put the woofer?
|> 
|> 2.  Buy real speakers, and some kind of mini-amp.  Does anyone make an
|> AMP for less than $100?  I'd feel kind of ridiculous purchasing an
|> automotive amplifier for my television....
|> 
|> 3.  Are there other options?

1. The AR Powered partners and Bose Roommates are excellent powered 
   speakers. A friend got the former for $150 ($200 Canadian) on sale.

2. I'm sure you could find a used amp or receiver in good condition
   fairly cheap. Many people are purchasing an A/V receiver with Pro-logic
   and are getting rid of their perfectly good amp or receiver.

3. Buy an amp or receiver with a surround decoder or a pro-logic
   decoder. If you haven't checked prices lately you will be
   surprised at how cheap you can get a receiver with a surround
   decoder for.
From: pascal@CAM.ORG (Pascal Gosselin)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Sony STR-AV3070 vs. STR-GX99ES, surround Speakers
Keywords: sony BOSE JBL
Date: 2 Jan 93 23:07:57 GMT
Organization: Communications Accessibles Montreal, Quebec Canada

I'm a little confused as to which to recommend to my father. He is
looking for a good surround setup that will also let him remote-control
his Control-S CD Player (that old CDP-110 works better than my CDP-670,
go figure!  My CDP-670 skips GNR's Use Your Ilusion II and Bryan Adam's
Waking up the neighbors (I purchased two copies of each, same thing)).
The CDP-110 is a primitive but EXTREMELY stable unit. Why, I don't know.

The CTR-AV3070 has digital inputs and the dual Room Link control, which
the ES series machine seems to lack.

I have an older STR-AV650 and it has noticeable crosstalk (FM can be heard
when the volume is cranked-up to the max in the CD position). I am scared
to recommend non-ES series stuff because of this.

Also, is there a device that we replace DRLC to give remote access in
multiple rooms ?

Due to space limitations, the two front+central speakers will be those
little 2" BOSE cube speakers with the subwoofer (I'm looking for the
part number on these, email me if you have them on hand, 1-800-465-BOSE is
closed 'till monday).

Rear speakers will either be Sony SRS-015's (single-way "square" speaker,
25 watts nominal, purchased in 1988) or new JBL Control 1's. The JBL's
require special mounts which seem to retail for $178 Cdn. Anybody got
a cheaper source for these ??

I'm open to non-Sony recommendations too, email me !

-Pascal
 
-- 
+--------------------------+-------------------------------------------------+
    Pascal Gosselin        |     Communications Accessibles Montreal  
    pascal@CAM.ORG         |  A non-profit corporation.  Newsfeeds & More.   
  Apple Support Specialist |  For info: info@CAM.ORG or Voice (514) 923-2102
From: shetline@bbn.com (Kerry Shetline)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: CD/LD jitter: I certainly do get it! (Was: Kerry doesn't get it...)
Date: 4 Jan 93 02:28:28 GMT
Followup-To: rec.audio
Organization: BBN
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com

In article <1993Jan3.220805.9323@smab.se>, hans@smab.se (Hans C Larsson)
wrote:
> 
> The problem arises when an unstable pulse train is *RECEIVED* by
> a D/A-converter *FROM* a digital transport.
> (I.e. between *TWO* boxes.)

I will take it that by 'between *TWO* boxes' you mean between the Theta
transport and an outboard DAC, or equivalently, those functional units of
any CD signal processing chain. Accordingly, I will use 'transport' to mean
the combination of mechanical elements, laser pickup, and support circuitry
that spin a disc and spit out a sequence of digital words representing the
digital signal, and DAC to mean that which takes the digital signal and
converts it to analog form.

> The receiver has to Phase Lock on a square wave which might not
> be very "square".

The 'receiver', which by your previous usage I will take to mean the DAC,
will get a consistently clocked signal from the transport. The transport,
with its own small buffer and feedback to the servo motor that spins the
disc, will have no trouble providing this regular signal. It in fact must,
if for no better reason than as a side effect of the necessary data
shuffling, error-detection and correction, and sub-code sifting that must
precede output to the DAC.

> From this you will get time-shift on the samples on the *RECEIVING*
> end since (virtually) all D/A-converters lacks any significant
> amount of buffer memory *COMBINED* with re-clocking of the signal.
> (The only exception that I know of is the (horrendously expensive)
> Technics SH-X1000 D/A converter).

I don't see any time shift creeping anywhere, certainly not related to the
mechanical characteristics of the transport when it is operating well
enough not to skip or otherwise catastrophically fail. The DAC should need
no buffer at all, since it is the responsibility of the transport to
provide regular data, and only the transport that has the necessary
connections to the disc servo motor to mechanically re-clock its output.
The transport must be successful at this task, or it will fail outright by
skipping or mistracking, not by allowing mechanical jitter to enter into
the timing of the data stream.

I would be interested in finding literature on this Technics DAC, which, if
it isn't just high-end BS, must be more than just a DAC. I can think of no
good reason for large buffers in a DAC except perhaps for digital signal
processing or skip protection. (The latter wouldn't function without some
sort of control signal from the DAC back to the transport.)

-Kerry
From: myers@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Bob Myers)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 17:48:18 GMT
Subject: Re: CD SOund QUality
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.audio

>  
> But they CAN hear the difference between 14 and 16 bits...
> and I'll bet they can hear the difference between 16 and 18 or 20
> bits.
>  
> I simply cannot believe that the ear, the most dynamic and          
> sensitive mike created, especially the discriminating ear,
> can be satisfied by 16 bits.

Then why do you believe that 18 or 20 would be sufficient?  Or, for that
matter, 32?  On what do you base all of this?  Just your emotional response
as evidenced by the "I cannot believe" statement?  (Also, why do you think
that the ear is "the most dynamic and sensitive mike created"?  I think that
it can easily be shown that you're wrong on both counts.)

> I say lets leave it at ONE disc format for simplicity,
> and work on a 32 bit 96KHz sampling system.

On what do you base these numbers - why do you think that this will be
sufficient, and the current format is not?


Bob Myers  KC0EW   Hewlett-Packard Co.      |Opinions expressed here are not
                   User Interface Tech. Div.|those of my employer or any other
myers@fc.hp.com    Fort Collins, Colorado   |sentient life-form on this planet.
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: DPierce@world.std.com (Richard D Pierce)
Subject: Re: Clipping questions
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 17:00:25 GMT

In article <1992Dec31.090155@trc.amoco.com> znpt01@trc.amoco.com (Norman P. Tracy) writes:
>
>All engineering is the art of trading off compromises.  In box speaker
>design the three basic tradeoffs are: 1) efficiency vs. 2) bandwidth (how
>low does it go) vs. 3) distortion.

Actually, there are two sets of triple-tradeoffs:

The first, which defines the "small signal" tradeoffs are: 1) efficiency
(how much input electrical power it converts to sound power), 2) bandwidth
(how low it will go) and 3) box volume.

The second, which define the "large signal" tradeoffs, are: 1) woofer
diameter (how much area the cone has), 2) Linear excursion (how far can
the cone move before it distorts and 3) Maximum acoustical output

The two groups are closely related through the bandwidth in that for a
given cone diameter and excursion capability, doubling the badwidth (going
an octave lower in cutoff) results in a reduction of 12 dB in maximum
acoustical output at the respective cutoff frequencies. Or, to achieve the
same acoustical output at 25 Hz that you have at 50 Hz requires either the
same cone area with 4 times the excursion capability or a woofer with
twice the diameter and the same excursion.

So Norm's conclusions are essentially correct. I just thought I'd add a
bit more of the cuzwhy's to the discussion.

>The speakers impedance and power ratings are only a very indirect
>indicator of how the designer picked these tradeoffs.  Without Dick Pierce's
>experience and test equipment the best most of us can do is listen to the
>EXACT combination of source/amp/speakers before plucking down the long green.

Yeah, though even the best of us can be fooled at times.

Norm's recommendation is essentially correct. The best way to decide is to
listen to the exact combination you're deciding upon. Find a dealer who
will either loan you equipment or has a liberal trade in policy. Listen to
things in YOUR room with YOUR music at the levels YOU like.


-- 
|                Dick Pierce                |
|    Loudspeaker and Software Consulting    |
| 17 Sartelle Street   Pepperell, MA  01463 |
|       (508) 433-9183 (Voice and FAX)      |
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: A couple questions.
From: cal@gsbux1.uchicago.edu (Cal Lott)
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 20:08:16 GMT
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

ch218@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Erik A. Horn) writes:
>I have a couple questions, if you have any knowledge
>on either subject, please respond via email, or here
>if needed..
> 1. The few high end audio places in my town are way
>over priced, so I have looked at mail order.  I am   
>considering making a purchase from a company
>called 6th Avenue Electronics.  Has anyone on here      
>ordered from this company, or know anything about it.

	Look carefully to make sure that they are an authorized
Denon dealer; if not you will be unable to receive warranty service
from a Denon service center in your area. 6th Avenue probably has
their own service warranty, but you need take make sure that it is
comparable to Denon's in quality and length of coverage. You will
also have to ship your receiver back to 6th avenue in order to
receive service. (Do they pay shipping, etc.?) I know that 6th
Avenue is not an authorized retailer for many of the brands that
they carry simply from looking at their ad.

>2. I am ordering a Denon DRA-5455 reciever.  Is there
>anyone out there that owns one that could tell me what
>they think of it.  I have listened to it, and find it
>a rather nice piece of equipment for the money.
> Thank you.

	You mean the DRA-545 60wpc receiver, right? If so, I think
that it is a good choice. Their CD players are their real strength,
but I like their receivers as well. The DRA-545 should be fine,
unless you want to play loud music for extended periods of time.

	If you have the money, I would consider going for a low
cost pair of seperates, such as the Adcom GTP-400 Preamp/Tuner,
and the GFA-535II amplifier. This combo will be about twice as
expensive as the DRA-545, but is a much more robust and flexible
system.

	Good luck, and enjoy your system!

					-Cal

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Cal Lott          "Oh, I see-- I thought 'no' meant 'spoon'!" --Dan
Email me, baby!   cal@gsbux1.uchicago.edu   cjl1@midway.uchicago.edu
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: falcon@camelot.bradley.edu (D. Nathan Hood)
Subject: Re: Pink Floyd is TOO MUCH
Organization: Bradley University
Date: 24 Dec 92 20:03:01 GMT

In <1992Dec21.172113.2319@portal.vpharm.com> dap@portal.vpharm.com (David A. Pearlman) writes:

>In article <168C4950A.KCSCHIE@vm.cmp.ilstu.edu> KCSCHIE@vm.cmp.ilstu.edu writes:
>>Before you pop down $100-150 for this new Floyd set, consider this:

actually now if you want to get this set for less than 150 good luck... it
just went out of print... one store here increased it's prices thirty
dollars in just one evening... the lowest i think you can find it for
around here is 160 if you can even find it....   
--
 I Wish You A Hopeful Christmas                   \             / /   
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 All Anguish Pain And Sadness                         \\\//,   _/ //,      
 Leave Your Heart, And Let Your Road Be Clear           \_-//' /  //<,      
                                                          \ ///  <//`         
                   -Emerson, Lake And Palmer-             /  >>  \\\`__/_   
                   -I Beleive In Father Christmas-       /,)-^>>\` , \\\
From: co940@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Nicholas E. Damato)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: FAQ?
Date: 4 Jan 1993 05:12:47 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


You know, come to think of it i have can't remember seeing an
FAQ for this newsgroup and i've been reading it for a number of
months. maybe i just didn't notice...
ned.
####
Newsgroups: rec.audio