HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cyeomans@ms.uky.edu (Charles Yeomans)
Subject: Re: Under Siege
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 14:17:32 GMT
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences

In article <BvzA0x.4r8@news.iastate.edu> twh73@isuvax.iastate.edu writes:
>Has anyone seen Seagal's new movie Under Siege?  IMHO t is the best one 
>he has done.  He doesn't end up taking out everyone by himself, someone else
>actually does some killing.  It seemed like they tried to lighten up his
>character a little bit.
>
>
>stiletto

I thought the movie was somewhat lame.  I thought Erika Eleniak's 
role as the bimbo was pretty silly, although I did enjoy the cake
scene.  It seemed to be a rewrite of "Die Hard".  

The simulated knife fight at the end was pretty good.  When the movie
comes out on video, I will be able to slow down the action and see
what happened in it.

Tommy Lee Jones and Gary Busey were excellent as the bad guys.  Putting
good actors in these movies really gives one a feel for the how far
SS and those guys have to go to be actors.

Charles Yeomans
cyeomans@ms.uky.edu
yeomans@austin.onu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: quixote@cix.compulink.co.uk (Aurelio Barranco)
Subject: Re: Akido -vs- Akijitsu
Reply-To: quixote@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 13:37:38 +0000


> 
> I would agree with 90% of what Mike has said.  There are though some
> very important points which he has missed out.  Aikido looks to and
> is derived from the teachings of Uyeshiba.  Aiki Ju Jitsu is derived
> from the Aiki teachings in the classic Ju Jitsu Ryu which were
> associated with Ken Jutsu Rye, e.g. Daito and Hagan.  As a result they
> generally have a much wider range of techniques that are found in
> pure Aikido and often have a strong weapons bias.
> 

At the Dojo I train at which follows Aikido as taught by Saito, there is
a lot of emphasis on the weapons training and the link between armed and
unarmed techniques.
Surely the link between Ueshiba and Daito Ryu is quite strong.



Aurelio 
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: shulick@navajo.ucs.indiana.edu (Sam Hulick)
Subject: Two-toed boots?
Originator: shulick@navajo
Reply-To: shulick@navajo.ucs.indiana.edu
Organization: Vallen Software
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 05:03:50 GMT


What is the purpose of two-toed boots?  (i.e. the foot is shaped like a heart)

-- 
Sam Hulick          | "A baby is an alimentary canal with a loud voice at one
shulick@indiana.edu | end and no responsibility at the other."  --Anon.
(NeXTmail welcome)  |
From: ttk@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (the troglodyte killer)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Contemp India Dance; MA influence?
Date: 16 Oct 92 02:14:19 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of California; Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: ucscb.ucsc.edu


 
     I just got back from a demonstration of contemporary India 
dance, and was surprised to note that many of the positions the 
dancer moved through were very similar to formal MA stances, 
blocks, and redirections (one series of movements reminded me of a
Hsing-Yi redirection).  What held my attention was that the dancer 
was able to move from a planted stance to the hand motions and 
immediately step forward a great distance with no loss of balance 
or deep posture.
 
     The particular dance which appeared to most embody these 
characteristics was called "ah-ha-von" (that's NOT how it's 
spelled, I don't know how it's spelled, but that's what it sounded 
like), which translates to "the invocation".  
 
     Does anyone know if contemporary Indian dances like this are 
influenced by a martial tradition?  If so, which tradition?
 
                                                      -- TTK
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: radner@cray.com (Lauren Radner)
Subject: Re: So happy (Dragons and such)
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 14 Oct 92 19:18:34 CDT

In article <1992Oct13.195633.1246@sei.cmu.edu> psc@sei.cmu.edu (Peter Capell) writes:
>
>God am I proud of you all!  Thank you thank you!  ...all this black dragon,
>white dragon shit... sheeeeeeeez.  I didn't even have to trash this post all
>by myself.
>
>Anyway, the way I heard it from one teacher is that Boddhidarma came to China
>teaching only his yogic gestures designed to promote health (no way to verify
>this, but it rings much truer than the notion of an Indian martial arts master
>traveling to China).  As I understood it, it was the Chinese monks who turned
>his gestures into fighting forms--this I find very believable.
>
>The Black D vs White D discussion sounds enormously like the palaver that my
>first kung fu teacher used to tell.  I have asked several Chinese people if
>they have *ever* heard of white D kung fu--nobody has.  It might just be an
>American phenomenon, created by ripoff artists.  Sounds like a good story to
>put right next to your chrome-plated wakazashi to me.
>
>Anyway, as I have heard (again and again) from various informed sources, open
>hand didn't come to Japan until the 30's via Gichin Funakoshi.  So no one need
>even mention the long tradition of open hand in Japan to me--I do like their
>swords though.
>
>Hey, here's a tough one: as prejudiced as I am towards Chinese MA, I must say
>that I have never seen a Chinese sword of equivalent beauty or as
>technologically advanced as the Japanese swords.  Does anyone know of one?  I
>have seen one good quality Chinese sword about 100 years old, but it still was
>not comparable to the Japanese sword.


Wow. I hope your asbestos padding is in good order.... you're in for it now!

Okay! Everybody! Please form orderly lines for the subjects you wish argue hotly. 

[] White dragon/black dragon is (shit/bogus) / (the highest form of martial art).
[] "Boddhidarma" did/didn't know and/or teach martial arts.
[] The concept of an Indian martial artist traveling to China is/isn't believable.
[] Chinese monks did/didn't create martial arts out of Indian yogic gestures.
[] Open hand techniques did/did not exist in Japan prior to the 30's.
[] Chinese swords do/don't equal the beauty of Japanese swords.
[] Chinese swords do/don't equal the technology of Japanese swords. 

Pretty good, Peter. That's everybody from India to Iceland, with Japan and China 
thrown in for good measure! I sure hope you have a lot of free time for typing...

Awestruck,
-Lauren
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: quixote@cix.compulink.co.uk (Aurelio Barranco)
Subject: Re: Akido -vs- Akijitsu
Reply-To: quixote@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 20:05:36 +0000


> So far as I know all the classical Aikido styles have a lot of
> emphasis on weapons.  This though tends to confined to the Jo,
> Bo, Ken and Nagatana.  There is some variation in this with some
> style using more than others and some having additional weapons.
> 
> In Aiki Ju Jitsu there is a much stronger connection with weapons
> with a wider range being used.   A lot of the Katas are weapon taking.
> 

A how strong a link .... a lot of Kata in Aikido are weapon based and
there is an extensive repetoir of Ken Dori (spelling ?)
I am often surprised at how extensively the hand techniques draw from
principles used in weapons training.

Aurelio 
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: mhirsch@atomic.princeton.edu (Michael Hirsch)
Subject: Re: history of daito-ryu aikijujutsu
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University Department of Computer Science
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 19:11:12 GMT

>>>>> On 14 Oct 1992 17:01:52 GMT, acharya@HYDRA.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU said:
mukund> NNTP-Posting-Host: hydra.rose-hulman.edu

mukund> a while ago someone posted a long history od daito ryu aikijujutsu. 
mukund> in a nutshell it said that the daito-ryu was founded by minamoto
mukund> yoshimitsu in 1100 a.d.

mukund> i recently came across another 'version' of the daito ryu, in a book
mukund> written by john stevens (and renjiro shirata) called _the way of 
mukund> harmony_.

[history deleted]

mukund> i wonder why there are two 'versions' of the history. i have heard/read
mukund> that aikido likes to play down the role of the daito ryu so perhaps
mukund> stevens 'version' reflects this. but then again, stevens is a fairly
mukund> well respected author, so there must be some truth in what he says.

Near as I could tell, the Stevens' history is just the documentable
part of the history posted by Brian Young.  Stevens says things like
"legend has it that it started in 1100 AD" but then goess on to say
that it can't be proven.  Brian has points where he says things like
"There are those who say that Sogaku made up the Daito Ryu at that
point" (as Stevens claims) and then says why he believes the
tradition.

It seems to me that both should be read critically.  If there really
was a secret school, it will be very hard to document that Takeda
Sokaku really learned and then taught the techniques of that school.
On the other hand, it is also pretty hard to show that there wasn't a
secret school.  It was a _secret_, after all.

Clearly, the Daito Ryu people have a reason to claim an ancient
heritage.  Also, as you point out, Stevens has some reason to belittle
such claims.

It doesn't strike me as surprising at all that there is more than one
history floating around.  After all, how many did we come up with for
Wing Chun, last month?  And it is only claimed to be ~400 years old.
Since Daito Ryu claims about 900 years how many histories should we
expect?

Lessee, do extrapolate linearly or exponentially.....
--


Michael D. Hirsch		mhirsch@cs.princeton.edu    
Computer Science Department	Voice: (609) 258-1751       
Princeton NJ, 08544		FAX:   (609) 258-1771       
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: snorthc@relay.nswc.navy.mil (Stephen Northcutt - K31)
Subject: Re: Where/how to learn ninjitsu?
Reply-To: snorthc@relay.nswc.navy.mil
Organization: Naval Surface Warfare Center	
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 12:15:16 GMT

In article <101392123452dude@losers.hacktic.nl>, dude@losers.hacktic.nl writes:

>And no, the training is not 'very vigorous'. It's just martial arts training,
>and there's nothing magic about it.

:-)  A year ago my son was receiving private instruction for an hour so
I was sitting around a doj* for an hour with nothing to do so I was reading
through this big old stack a coverless yellowed MA magazines, mostly amusing
myself with the women`s SD articles.....

There was this article on Stephen Hayes "the real thing(tm)".  It said
that before he would accept you for training you had to do a shoulder
roll off the back of a moving pickup.  Weee Oh, that is right vigorous
in my book :-)

> Training include:
....
> - bo jutsu     staff techniques

I bought this ever so embarrassing paperback book once, Secret Ninja techniques
of bojutsu.... written by a student of and with a forward by Stephen Hayes.
The book doesn't have a single bo (if that is the correct word for the
6 foot cudgel or staff) technique, but is entirely about jo (if that is
the correct word for the 3 1/2 - 4' stick) techniques.

I bought the book after leafing through it and being impressed with a
series of moves in which the ninja instructor :-) was standing still
holding as a cane or walking stick in the natural and normal position
for such a thing... the book detail various defenses
to attacks such as, punch, kick, knife, stick, from this position.

Most of these defenses involve as the first move, merely turning your
wrist to pull the cane up till it is perpendicular with the ground
and then stepping forward into a fairly deep front stance so that
the point of the cane goes into the attacker's torso will all your
weight behind it :-)   Anyway, I was very intrigued with this series
of defenses, since that is the natural position to have a cane or walking
stick in, time to deployment is very low (handy when you are surprised),
and it is subtle as all get out.

Stephen (ninja in my dreams) Northcutt
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: doug@eng.umd.edu (Douglas N. Cohen)
Subject: Re: YOU SHOULD TRY LLAP-Goch!
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 15:28:40 GMT
Organization: hah!  we don't need no steenkin' organization!
Summary: 	-=-=-< deadly seriousness >-=-=-
Followup-To: lawrence@olympus.ctron.com
Keywords: 	by ghad!  i believe he believes it!
Cc: radner@cray.com, lawrence@olympus.ctron.com

In article <1992Oct12.110808.7652@walter.cray.com> radner@cray.com (Lauren Radner) writes:

>In article <5395@balrog.ctron.com> lawrence@olympus.ctron.com (Gary St. Lawrence) writes:
>>All you sissies are wasting your time with all those Oriental martial
>>arts, especially when I can teach you *LLAP-Goch: The Welsh Art of 
>>Self Defense!!!*
>>
>>What is LLAP-Goch, you ask? It is simply the most deadly form of secret
>>self-defense that has ever been devised anywhere in the world.
>
>>You will grow up to a FOOT TALLER. You will have 35" BICEPS, and the
>>women will beg to sleep with you.
>>
>
>... but what if I master LLAP-Goch, and I'm a heterosexual woman?
>
>-Lauren

	i don't think it matters, redner....
	i believe that they will still want to (beg to) sleep with you....
(hmmmmmmm  i better drop it right .... sheesh*duck*!* smash...  clattttter!)

	another opinion, worth what you paid for it!
	and, as always, i am/at:

	     doug:  <doug@eng.umd.edu> : <doug@lpf.umd.edu>

	-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-< a ghost in the machine >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

	"presidential elections are planned distractions
	 to divert attention from the actions behind the scenes....
	 like a game of chess when the house is a mess, or
	 a petty money squabble when your marriage is in trouble,
	 or a football game when there's rioting in the street!

	 it's just another movie.....  another song and dance.....
	 another poor sucker who never had a chance!
	 it's just another captain goin' down with his ship.....
	 it's just another jerk, taking pride in his work!

				       greetings from timbuck three!
From: sog@craycos.com (Steve Gombosi)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: history of daito-ryu aikijujutsu
Date: 14 Oct 92 20:36:48 GMT
Organization: Cray Computer Corporation

In article <1bhjq0INN8vk@master.cs.rose-hulman.edu> acharya@HYDRA.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU writes:
>a while ago someone posted a long history od daito ryu aikijujutsu. 
>in a nutshell it said that the daito-ryu was founded by minamoto
>yoshimitsu in 1100 a.d.
>
>i recently came across another 'version' of the daito ryu, in a book
>written by john stevens (and renjiro shirata) called _the way of 
>harmony_.
>
>this traced the lineage from takeda soemon (1758-1853) who 
>practiced an art called aiki-in-yo-ho. soemon taught some of his
>techniques to saigo tanoma who eventually ended up as a very famous
>kyudo master. incidentally, it was tanoma who was involved with 
>kano and the kodokan and performed many of the demonstrations
>(and accepted challenges) for the kodokan.
>
>anyway, soemons grandson, takeda sokaku (1860-1943) was also taught
>the aiki-in-yo-ho as well as some advanced (secret?) techniques called
>the oshiki-uchi. sokaku modified these techniques and from his
>knowledge of other styles (kenjutsu and i think some other jujutsu) as
>well is considerable fighting experienced created daito ryu aikijujutsu.
>
>most of this is from memory so i apologise for minor mistakes. 
>
>i wonder why there are two 'versions' of the history. i have heard/read
>that aikido likes to play down the role of the daito ryu so perhaps
>stevens 'version' reflects this. but then again, stevens is a fairly
>well respected author, so there must be some truth in what he says.

Actually, there's not any conflict here. Yoshimitsu was the ancestor of
the Takeda family. Stevens is just picking up the history a little closer
to the present day. The actual story about Yoshimitsu dissecting corpses
in order to develop more effective techniques may well be apocryphal - and
the Daito-ryu of today is probably quite different from Yoshimitsu's
original system - but there's no real disparity between the two accounts.

Takeda Soemon was a direct descendant of Minamoto Yoshimitsu (as was the most
famous member of the Takeda family, Takeda Shingen).

Stevens has quite a reputation as a scholar - although it was somewhat
tarnished by the errors he made in _Abundant_Peace_ (which managed
to simultaneously provoke the Aikikai and the Daitokan). One hopes he
was more careful with this work. I assume it's published by Shamballa, right?

Steve
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X)
Subject: Re: Katanas and other Blades 
Organization: Twilight Zone
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 14:50:29 GMT

In article <718209019snx@ietech.demon.co.uk> nigel@ietech.demon.co.uk ("Nigel G. Backhurst") writes:
>
>A good background book is The Arts of the Japanese Sword by B.W.
>Robinson it was first published in 1961 by Faber and Faber with
>reprints in 1978 and 1981.
	
	Not sure I've seen this one... strange.  I'll have to check it out.
	I thought I'd read EVERY book ever published on this topic.
>
>If you can read French there is a very good series of books on
>Japanese Swords  Cannes Azur - 22 Av. Jean-de Noailles - 06400
>Cannes.  These were produced for the Federation Europeenne d'IAIDO.
>As I don't read French I don't have any copies and have no titles
>to hand, but they were highly recommended to me some years ago.

	I believe I've been through these at UC Davis.  Drove me NUTS not
	knowing what in hell they were talking about.  Lots of really good
	illustrations though.
>
>P.S. If you really want to look at the subject in depth, there
>are some papers on the metallurgy of the Japanese sword which
>were published by the American Institute of Metallurgy.  I
>recall reading these about twenty five years ago, and they were
>fairly heavy going.  I am sure if you contact the Institute
>they could tell you where to find them.

	There are also several papers on a phenomenon called "super plasticity"
	that occurs in ultra high carbon tool steels (>2% C).  This phenomenon
	is readily observed during the manufacture of Japanese blades.  It
	is intimately tied to grain size.  After so many iterations of folding
	the steel back on itself, the grain structure is broken down into
	smaller and smaller sizes.  At some point, the steel becomes like
	taffy when at temperature.

	When I was fiddling with forging HSS (high speed steel) blades, this
	property was immediately apparent.  In fact, the first blade of this
	type that I ever made was made from a HUGE Stellite blank (~2" square
	by about 6" long).  I was expecting to have a miserable time of it,
	but was surprised that the superplasticity was there from the start.
	The superfine grain size explains this.  HSS is WONDERFUL forging
	material, but once taken above transition, it is a BITCH to anneal.
	Has to do with the red heat properties of the steel.  So once the
	forging is done, the grinding is painfully slow and eats wheels like
	crazy.  I've never been able to successfully anneal HSS.

	Uh, gee, I guess I've gone off on another tangent... whoops.

	-Andy V.
>
>
>>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>Nigel Backhurst ( nigel@ietech.demon.co.uk )
>c/o 88 Ashburton Road, Hugglescote, Coalville, LE6 2LX, U.K.
>p/a IE Technical Services Holland, Deventerstr 150, 7321 CE Apeldoorn
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>


Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: drury@helix.nih.gov (Richard Drury)
Subject: Re: Hip Damage, legs too strong...
Organization: National Institutes of Health
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 05:06:29 GMT

ttk@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (the jade man) writes:
>>heinzl@elroy (Heinz Lottermoser) writes:
>>
>> [Cyclist with unbalanced muscular development asks for advice 
>> on developing strength and stretch for kicking.]
> 
> [Good advice on traditional strengthening exercises deleted.]
>
>     Does anyone else have advice for him and me both?  I've laid 
>down what's worked for me, but I'm not exactly an experience 
>martial artist.

Last year, my gym bought all new equipment.  One of the new
acquisitions was a Nautilus leg machine of a type I had never
seen before.  It looks like the $1 millon version of the
stretching machines you see advertised in the back of the MA
rags.  Except that it provides graduated resistance through the
full range of motion up to about 180 degrees. You can reverse
the direction of resistance by just pulling a big lever on the
side and flipping the pads around to the other side of the leg
cradles.  So, in practice, you work the inner thighs to failure,
getting a great stretch on every stroke, then pull the lever and
work the outer thighs/hips, then back to the inner thighs, etc.

I think they bought this thing primarily for women who want to
tighten their thighs, but it is an MA's dream come true.  If
your art emphasizes kicking, this is the machine for you.  During
my 7 years in TKD, I gradually built up considerable leg
strength and flexibility through the traditional methods.  But,
looking back on it, I believe this machine would have given me
better results in a fraction of the time.

Not that you should rush out to the nearest fitness emporium and
try to pick up one of these babies for your basement workout
room.  Hey, if you have that much money to burn, forget about
exercise equipment -- you NEED to be one of my students ;-)  All
seriousness aside, if you can beg borrow steal time on one of
these machines, don't pass up the chance to give your development
a giant kick in the pants.
--
Richard A. Drury
drury@helix.nih.gov
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts,rec.arts.tv
From: das@unislc.uucp (David Shorten)
Subject: Re: Kung Fu TV series
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 17:35:24 GMT

Randy_A_Winney@cup.portal.com wrote:
: 
: 
: 
: >>I read in the L.A. Times TV guide that Kung Fu will start in January.
: 
: Why would anyone interested in martial arts want to watch that piece of
: crap? I remember reading an interview with David Carradine in which he
: said he had never had any real martial arts training and was high on
: LSD most of the time they were shooting that series...
: 
: winney@dal.mobil.com


It's true that he didn't have much training before he signed for the part,

but he became very interested and received alot of one-on-one instruction

during the filming, and afterwards.  And the actual ability of the star

doesn't seem to be as important as the ability of the fight choreographer

in an MA-related film (assuming a reasonable level of fitness, flexibility,

and ability to learn physical skills in the performers).

Dave S.
Organization: Central Michigan University
Date: Thursday, 15 Oct 1992 23:18:54 EDT
From: James D. Griffith <3RM7HL7@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: ? For MA's from El Cajon, CA area

The question I have is what is the address and/or phone number of a master
Daniel Nolan?  He is a 5th degree in Tang Soo Do and he may have a training
center in the El Cajon/San Diego area.  I need to contact him because I have
recently parted on bad terms with an instructor who tested under master Nolan.
Therefore, I need to get some names/phone numbers from him for other students
he may have in the MI, OH, WV, PA, KY,IL region of the states in order for me
to get tested.  I would appreciate the assistance.
From: matt@drefla.mese.com (Matthew Brandt)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Books on Tang Soo Do?
Date: 15 Oct 92 18:22:07 GMT
Reply-To: matt@drefla.mese.com (Matthew Brandt)
Organization: Impulse Technology
X-Mailer: uAccess - Mac Release: 1.5v2

Hey, does anyone out there know of any good books that cover the forms
and concepts of Tang Soo Do? It seems easy to find books about nearly
every other martial art (I have a whole bookcase full) but I can't
seem to find any on the martial art that I actually study. I know
that Grandmaster Hwang Kee wrote a book about it once but I think
it is out of print. Anybody got a copy they want to sell?

------------------------------------------------------------
Matt Brandt
Applied Engineering
matt@drefla.mese.com
------------------------------------------------------------