HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dasher@well.sf.ca.us (D Anton Sherwood)
Subject: Re: Books
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 20:38:47 GMT

In article <11AUG199202203734@romeo.caltech.edu> joelong@romeo.caltech.edu (Long, Joseph Louis) writes:
>>Mondo 2000:  Ack, sorry, not interested.  It's printed on PAPER! 
>>   It should enter the electronic reality!
>good point!  All magz and newspaper SHOULD be available digitally
>but there is NO excuse for something like Mondo 2000 NOT to be!
>Maybe we (net pholks on a.cp and others) should start an Ezine
>and call it Mega 3000 or something... :-)

how about Mystery Science Magazine 3000?
-- 
D Anton Sherwood *\\* dasher@well.sf.ca.us *\\* +1 415 664 2229
Libertarian candidate for California Assembly, 12th district
From: jimt@sunfse.ese.lmsc.lockheed.com (Jim S. Thompson)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: WAX, or the discovery of television among the bees....
Date: 21 Aug 92 23:40:39 GMT
Organization: LOCKHEED, Sunnyvale, CA

>About two months ago, I posted about my electronic sci-fi
>feature:

>==========================================================
>"WAX or the discovery of television among the bees" (85:00)
>==========================================================

>Since then, I have been able to arrange a number of screenings,which I am
>posting in the hope that you are interested.
>etc, etc.

	The above posting really blew my mind!  I saw a 5 minute advance 
	test release of WAX at a Siggraph or YLEM (high tech artist's group)
	forum about a year/year and a half ago.  It was the MOST flipped,
	avant-cool cyberdelic thing I think I've ever seen.  It was an almost
	indescribable mix of computer graphics and still/full motion video.
	The "story" was very dream-like and mysterious, like some of the more
	wacked out "Outer Limits" but much more beyond.  I had given up hope
	of ever seeing any more of it since I never heard anything further
	about it, and then I happen to read about it on the net!
From: mmaxwell@ucsd.edu
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Re: U2
Date: 20 Aug 92 22:07:23 GMT
Organization: UC San Diego
NNTP-Posting-Host: irpsws80.ucsd.edu

In article <CHRISB.92Aug20125909@lynx.ps.uci.edu> chrisb@lynx.ps.uci.edu (Chris
Barrus) writes:
(snip)

>Achtung Baby addresses some of the same themes that traditional cyberpunk
>has looked at, so I guess you can find some common ground between the two.
>My viewpoint is that something is cyberpunk only if you really REALLY want
>it to be.

Make that "something is cyberpunk only if you really Really REALLY want
it to be." ;)

>BTW, I will admit that U2's video for "Even Better Than The Real Thing"
>is the closest thing I've seen to a "cyberpunk music video."
>
Yeah!  What he said.  Actually i think that the video only really 'points
at' being cyberpunk, but i think that EweToo is trying just an eensy bit
too hard to be cpunk to actually do it.
-------------------
Matt Maxwell
mmaxwell@ucsd.edu

"He took personality tests
 and stapled them to his lower lip" -- Stan Ridgway
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
From: petesk@microsoft.com (Pete Skelly)
Subject: Re: Non-conformity/Cyberpunk
Date: 11 Aug 92 06:31:20 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article <DOOM.92Aug8155913@elaine6.Stanford.EDU> doom@elaine6.Stanford.EDU (Joseph Brenner) writes:
>
>dewind@acsu.buffalo.edu (Padraig) says:
>
>> I like your view!  I laugh at those folks who think they are being rebellious
>> while looking exactly the same as every other "rebel" that they hang out 
>> with.  Personally I think that Non-comformity is more a state of mind than
>> a way of cutting (or not cutting) your hair, or of wearing your clothes.
>
>This is all very true, but it's not the whole truth.  
>
>Choosing a subculture can be a rebellious action.
>Individuals are not islands. 
>
>And appearance is not irrelevant.  Shave your head, tattoo
>the sides, pierce your nose and you'll find out very quickly
>what it's like to be an outcast.  Finding out who can't
>handle trivial changes like this is not a small thing.
>
>I laugh at the people who laugh at the "pretentious" types
>dressed in black, when they themselves are committed to
>their own uniforms (e.g. T-shirts and blue jeans).  
>There are all sorts of pretensions.

What's wrong with wearing T-shirts and Jeans.  I mean really, it's
not what you wear, but why.  I wear T-shirts and Jeans 'cause they
are inexpensive and comfortable, not to mention versitile.

I also where "black" sometimes.  I don't wear it so that everyone
around me says "oh, he must be cool because he is willing to be
rebelious and stand out from the crowd."  I posit that that is one
of the reasons why many people do dress the way they do.  It's not
a bad reason, but if it is the only reason, then I'd say the person
is kind of shallow.

Ask yourself this if you wear "black".  Could you be just as cool,
or even cool at all, if you wore jeans and a t-shirt.  Are you cool
enough to fill your clothes.

Fashion is a method of expression.  If you say that you are expressing
yourself to rebel agains society, this may be true.  But is that the
base reason.  Or are you rebelling against societ to gain the approval
of a group of people (those pretentious people who wear "black").
Be honest about it, but don't tell me, 'cause I don't care if you're
rebelling or not.  Only why.

petesk@microsoft.com
My Opinions...
From: mattb@ctron.com (Matt Brown)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Re: Ender's Game
Date: 14 Aug 92 16:10:30 GMT
Reply-To: mattb@olympus.ctron.com (Matt Brown)
Organization: Cabletron Systems INc.

tmaddox@netcom.com (Tom Maddox) writes:
>moon!cyberden!impmat@well.sf.ca.us writes:
>>Has anyone read Ender's Game by Scott Orson Card?  It definitely fit's 
>>into the category of Cuberpunk and on a literary level rates up ther with 
>>Neuromancer.  I could not put ot down.   If you read any book read 
>>Ender's Game!
>
>	Dissenting opinion:
>
>	_EG_ is adolescent wish-fulfillment, essentially juvenile.
>
>	It is not cyberpunk.
>
Agree on the not cyberpunk. But the "adolescent...juvenile" is a little harsh.
Maybe by comparison to a well-written cyber slice-and-dice technovel, yeah,
it's fairly wimpy stuff.  And it's not major-league profound.  But it is a
good novel, pretty decently written and characterized, especially considering
that it is essential a short story elaboration.  I can buy the "a...j"
comment as a valid reaction to "rates with Neuromancer" but not on the book's
own merits.  Most unfortunately, without a little more explanation, Tom,
the remark seems almost envious of Card's success, even though it is most
likely just a summary judgement in the Maddox manner.

Matt
Why the hell don't the bookstores in my area carry your book? 
If it's as good as "Snake Eyes", I really like to read it.
From: ecbjkokegei@economics.adelaide.edu.au
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Re : Ender's Game
Date: 18 Aug 92 07:19:15 GMT
Organization: Economics, University of Adelaide



I think Enders Game and Neuromancer are both good novels(they both won both
Hugo and Nebula awards) but I think a lot of people out there have difficulty
telling the difference between a genre of fiction -Science fiction and a
sub-genre cyberpunk. Like other sub-genre's (New wave, golden age,space opera,
post-apocalype) cyberpunk is characterized by certain key elements.
  Just because Enders game is SF it isn't CP. Likewise with Heinlien. Just
because he was a great writer does not imply he was a cyberpunk. Cyberpunks are 
by definition I guess a new group of authors (Sterling, Gibson, Shiner) who
write near future science fiction usually told from the criminal perspective.
It has traits such as widespread use of biotechnology, computers, drugs, but
these elements alone don't make novels cyberpunk. The form of writing has its
own language almost and it is easy to tell it from other modern SF.
  Back to Enders game. Sure there is high Tech stuff, and its set in the near
future, there is no underworld shown, no sleaze,no ruling corporations. Ender
is a hero, not like Case the Anti-Hero.what Ender does is for the good of
society. Case is did what he did to save his own ass, and fuck the rest of
society.
  Similar could be said with heinliens books (except perhaps Friday - which was
closest to cyberpunk he got) that although being SF good or bad, they predated
CP and maybe influenced it but were never part of the movement (as Sterling
likes to call it).
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
From: mike@highlite.uucp (Mike Wiik)
Subject: Re: Mondo 2000: R. U. Sirius
Organization: Gotham Communications Research
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 03:23:58 GMT

randolph@cognito.ebay.Sun.COM (Randolph Fritz) writes:

|Hierarchic social patterns are an ape, even monkey thing.  Gorillas,
|baboons, and chimps, our closest non-sapient relatives have hierarchic
|societies.  I believe our hierarchies are an attempt to organize our
|societies along those lines.  I believe it's at best a vast illusion
|-- we are in effect trying to learn ethics and philosophy from
|baboons!  "Transhumans" . . . might not.  The body, after all, would
|be vastly different; some of the impulses would differ.  Hey, who
|knows, we might even have an attack of wisdom.
|__Randolph Fritz  sun!cognito.ebay!randolph || randolph@ebay.sun.com

Hierarchic social structures exist among insects and many mammals.
Other than stating the obvious in a kind of stupid way, the question
is: what's your point?

	-Mike

-- 
   | o==== . : ... :  :  .     |Mail Me Neat Stuff->POB 3703 Arlington VA 22203
 --@-- . o o o ... O -O- o o : |No disclaimers needed: I actually pay for this.
   |           ... :  :        |-----------------------------------------------
mEssAGE fRoM sPAcE ARt stUdiOs |Man:TheMissingLinkBetweenApes&HigherIntelligence
From: prisoner@fennec.sccsi.com (Kyle Thorson)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Re: cyber space game machines
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 15:51:33 CST
Organization: Fennec Information Systems, Houston, Texas USA

ibacon@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Ian Bacon) writes:

> I have heard about cyberspace games machines. Does anyone know where I
> could get some information about them? Where they come from, cost etc.
> 
> thanks in advance.

you mean Virtuality (the Virtual Reality game system)? 
call 1-800-ILLUSION and a recording will tell you how to get more info. 
They run for about $65,000 for the stand up ver. and $60,000 for the sit 
down ver. or at least thats what they were last time i looked... Problem 
is that you need 2 or more to have the most fun.. otherwise you just get 
to play the computer (playing another human is better, I think so 
anyways, because you can talk to them via a microphone. On some of the 
newer games that are suposed to be coming out your voice will be changed 
to match the caracter you play! should be cool! hope this is what you 
were looking for...

 -Kyle-

P.S. just get a few friends together (65, hehehe) and its only $1000 a 
     piece!! W0W! What a bargan! hehe


--------
Kyle Thorson  <prisoner@fennec.sccsi.com>
Fennec Information Systems and Computer Consulting, Inc. 
11504 Hughes Rd. Suite 131 - Houston, Texas USA 77089 - (713) 479-3107 Data
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
From: mike@highlite.uucp (Mike Wiik)
Subject: Re: Garish flashing LED's
Organization: Gotham Communications Research
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 01:21:06 GMT

petesk@microsoft.com (Pete Skelly) writes:

>As for a VR person, well, if they needed to spend time in VR, fine.  If they
>are doing it to escape from reality, well, then that's not fine.  VR
>should supliment reality (as does TV), instead of replacing it.

*mysticism mode on*

Maybe the difference between "reality" and VR is that in reality we're
NPC's while in VR we can be gamemasters.

Since nobody knows what "reality" really is, we might be in a VR now.
Imho, evolution of intelligence leads to multiple realities, none of
which can be considered more valid than any other. For example, Dan
Quayle lives in a different "reality" than most net users :)

*mysticism mode off*

>petesk@microsoft.com
>My Opinions...

	-Mike

-- 
   | o==== . : ... :  :  .     |Mail Me Neat Stuff->POB 3703 Arlington VA 22203
 --@-- . o o o ... O -O- o o : |No disclaimers needed: I actually pay for this.
   |           ... :  :        |-----------------------------------------------
mEssAGE fRoM sPAcE ARt stUdiOs |Man:TheMissingLinkBetweenApes&HigherIntelligence
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
From: petesk@microsoft.com (Pete Skelly)
Subject: Re: Garish flashing LED's
Date: 13 Aug 92 10:58:30 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article <1992Aug12.061738.5432@src.umd.edu> tedwards@src.umd.edu (Thomas Grant Edwards) writes:
>In article <B0VcPB2w165w@angus.mi.org> thx1138@angus.mi.org writes:
>> Flashing LED's are not "great fashion accessories" but (rather) geeky
>> looking tacky jewlery.  
>
>We'll have to agree to disagree here.  I think alot though depends on
>presentation...clearly a shirt with say 100 LED's on it is one thing,
>flashing LED earings are another, then there are those commercial little
>tie-tack flashy things (I do refuse to buy the commercial ones...for
>$10, I could make 5 LED/battery combos).
>
>Then, of course, there is the definition of geeky.  Is a NetRunner geeky
>for carrying a cyberdeck everywhere he/she goes?  Is a VR progger geeky
>cause he/she spends all day in a fake reality?

If you need to carry something for some reason other than for showing
off, then no, of course you're not geeky.  People carrying cellphones
and laptops generally arent' considered geeky.  However, were someone
to openly display their 9billion function scientific calculator
everywhere they went, when they only used it in their office anyway.
well, that would be geeky.

As for a VR person, well, if they needed to spend time in VR, fine.  If they
are doing it to escape from reality, well, then that's not fine.  VR
should supliment reality (as does TV), instead of replacing it.

petesk@microsoft.com
My Opinions...
From: ron@zooid.guild.org (Secret Mud)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Re: Books
Date: 17 Aug 92 11:58:00 GMT

From: petesk@microsoft.com (Pete Skelly)
>
>As far as you wearing LEDs, you have every right to and I'll support that,
>but as to you're reason?  Why do you GOT TO.  Who's making you.  If you want
>an expression of technology, well, LED's are a nice expression of ancient
>technology, but nearly every household in the US has a modern expression
>of technology.  It's called NINTENDO.  LED's could almost be considered
>pre-information age.
>

If you want to wear LEDs that means anything other than a "geeks in leather"
fashion statement, why not wear something functional.

How about a few IR LEDs, which are fed with a signal which is the off code for
most of the popular TV remotes.  Walk into any bar and kill the television
just by being there.
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
From: mike@highlite.uucp (Mike Wiik)
Subject: Re: Mondo 2000,Ono Sendi
Organization: Gotham Communications Research
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 01:12:39 GMT

Shadowmar@cup.portal.com (Paul Joseph Furio) writes:

>I just got my first issue of Mondo 2000 a day ago.  looks interesting, but
>I'm just wondering:
>	1) How much of this magazine is to be taken seriously?

Nick Herbert and the ads are serious.

>	2) there's an ad for ONO-SENDI.  Is this a real company?  What
>do they make?

Call them up. I did, and am supposed to get some info in the mail.
They picked a name to raise expectations, let's hope they deliver.

>	Computer ads and music ads in one magazine? Interesting indeed...

Yes especially when you consider that the previous magazines (High
Frontiers & Reality Hackers) were all about DRUGS.......... :-)

	-Mike

-- 
   | o==== . : ... :  :  .     |Mail Me Neat Stuff->POB 3703 Arlington VA 22203
 --@-- . o o o ... O -O- o o : |No disclaimers needed: I actually pay for this.
   |           ... :  :        |-----------------------------------------------
mEssAGE fRoM sPAcE ARt stUdiOs |Man:TheMissingLinkBetweenApes&HigherIntelligence
From: acsbk@UMASSD.EDU
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Re: Ender's Game
Date: 13 Aug 92 21:01:12 GMT
Reply-To: acsbk@UMASSD.EDU
Organization: UMASS DARTMOUTH, NO. DARTMOUTH, MA.


 
>> Ender's Game is a fantastic book, but in *no* way is it cyberpunk.  Neither
>> is anything Heinlein ever wrote for that matter.  Anyone who says these
>> books are doesn't have a clue as to what cyberpunk is.  
To whom this may concern, seeing that the original sender cannot be readily id'd.
    
    For starters, Just how much Heinlein have you read? Works like _Stranger in a Strange Land_,
_Friday_, _The Moon is a Harsh Mistress_ are unquestionably cyberpunk.  

I already mentioned TMiaHM in a previous posting, in short, the main character, Manuel has a cybernetic
arm that is quite like the tech's from Burning Chrome, in that he replaces the end with various tools
for his work on a massive computer system's microcircuits, that is before it wakes into an AI.

 Have you ever read _Friday_?
She's vat-grown, jumps the sub orbital from one side of the planet to the other, uses a thumb coded
smart card to pay for it, buys the next ticket from an automated ticket booth, snubs some guy on the way
and stuffs his body in a locker. She's called an A.P.(artificial person) by society and is not given
a full set of human rights. This is part of the plot, and is precisely punk.

>asked why didn't he just put it in a computer, and Heinlen replied "Son, 
>this was BEFORE we had computers..."

Just to point out, he didnt stop writing back then, either. Much of his work was published in the 80s,
and is hightech to current standards.

> Besides, it's possible to have cyberpunk without the cyber, and cpunk is 
>basically a social structure anyway, right? Heinlen was good at writing 
>modified social settings...in my opinion, he wrote good stuff for his 
>time.

for his time? This sounds strange, as if you mean to say it is already outdated. Many books by Heinein
have characters who are AIs, among them _Time Enough for Love_ _The Number of the Beast_ and 
_To Sail Beyond the Sunset_. Many of them have to do with social revolution by a deprived majority,
including _Sixth Column_ and _Revolt in 2100_. _Friday_ _The Moon is a Harsh Mistress_ and _The Cat Who
Walks Through Walls_ all have examples of cyber tech related stuffs.

'Anyone who says these
>> books are doesn't have a clue as to what cyberpunk is.'

Yeah ok. 

Bret.
ACSBK@UMASSD.EDU
From: mmaxwell@ucsd.edu
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Re: Proposed newsgroup: alt.music.techno
Date: 17 Aug 92 14:33:51 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: UC San Diego
NNTP-Posting-Host: irpsws80.ucsd.edu

In article <16843EF6E.EIVERSO@cms.cc.wayne.edu> EIVERSO@cms.cc.wayne.edu
writes:
>There is discussion of a new alt.music.techno newsgroup going on
>in alt.config.
> 
>Please participate if you like.
> 
>--Eric
>
What?  Alt.rave isn't good enough for you?

Disclaimer: I am not a reader of alt.rave, nor do i want to be.
-------------------
Matt Maxwell
mmaxwell@ucsd.edu

"He took personality tests
 and stapled them to his lower lip" -- Stan Ridgway
From: tedwards@src.umd.edu (Thomas Grant Edwards)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Re: twenty minutes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Date: 13 Aug 92 20:30:10 GMT
Organization: Systems Research Center, Maryversity of Uniland, College Park

In article <86114@netnews.upenn.edu> blewis@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Benn L. Lewis) writes:
>	We've got the vampires, ravers, vr freaks, hackers. . .

I used to wonder, what the heck are these "Rockerboys" in
CyberPunk RPGs...heck, I found them!  Technorave DJ's and composers.
Spinning high-speed thuping digital sound through their MIDI
keyboards w. DSPed samples.

>	News as well is unfortunately more slanted than
>I'd like to believe.  I wouldn't even admit to a conspiracy myself until
>I started watching McNeil-Lehrer Newshour on PBS.  There is one hell
>of a difference between what a non-biased group like PBS reports compaired
>to what a network keeping sponsers happy reports.

Oh yeah.  But wait, don't believe PBS or NPR/APR is not biased themselves.
It is a different kind of bias, aimed at supporters of the stations.
Sill, I'll admit I'm an NPR junkie...

Listen to Shortwave AM, from news from all the different countries
to get the balancing effect of full spectrum news...

>	The internet might be any three dimensional virtual reality heaven, but
>hey, its virtually freeality-internationaly.  Nothing has ever been done to
>link the world this easily.

Indeed!

-Thomas
 de N3HAU
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
From: dasher@well.sf.ca.us (D Anton Sherwood)
Subject: Re: C-punk and etc. (Anarchy!)
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 20:43:02 GMT

In article <4736@balrog.ctron.com> mattb@olympus.ctron.com (Matt Brown) writes:
>(Robert Reay) writes:
>>acsbk@UMASSD.EDU writes:
>>>	Yes, I think the idea of having read _Neuromancer_ 10 times and
>>>putting anarchy sigils on personal items is silly, 
>>     I saw (in a store called Utopia) a black t-shirt printed with about
>>a 20 5" anarchy logos.  Is it just me or does a preprinted (even well ordered)
>>anarchy shirt seem a little silly.
>
(For whoever asked, the symbol is a circle-A, sometimes seen in ascii as
`(A)' or `@'.)
>
>The only way anarchy will succeed is if we get organized!
>
>Hey! Wait! Don't leave. I've still got some "United for Anarchy" t-shirts!

Very funny.  Some of us don't think anarchy means chaos or the abolition of
voluntary cooperation.
-- 
D Anton Sherwood *\\* dasher@well.sf.ca.us *\\* +1 415 664 2229
Libertarian candidate for California Assembly, 12th district
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
From: mike@highlite.uucp (Mike Wiik)
Subject: Re: Mondo 2000: R. U. Sirius
Keywords: like, totally, y'know
Organization: Gotham Communications Research
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 23:52:43 GMT

s7356911@deimos.ucc.umass.edu (DYLYN) writes:

>Bill writes:
>>..Our society has been organized in pyramidal power structures for 6000 plus 
>>years-- it's an ingrained tendency, now...
>	Sorry, don't agree, for a number of reasons.  First,  it's true some
>hierarchical societies existed roughly 4-6 K years ago, but they were 
>exceptions.  The great mass of societies were egalitarian ones at that point.

Interesting argument. Prehistorical societies were egalitarian. Yes I've
read _The Chalice and the Blade_, and it's very interesting, but it's hard
to prove what really happened in prehistory: hence the name "prehistory".

>	I especially disagree with the "ingrained tendency' point.  How does
>6000 years (barely a moment in the evolutionary timetable) of stratified states
>counteract the million or so years of human existence in egalitarian societies?

Beats the fuck out of me. Millions of years, eh? Uh, don't suppose you
have any evidence for this, hum?

>I admit hierarchy is a dominant way of organization now, but I believe we
>anarchists at least have instinct and evolution on our side.

I'm not sure history records any long-term anarchist society. People's
instinct is probably to do what the fuck they want and ignore authority.
There is freedom there, but also a lot of problems - especially when the
material resources are limited. Think, folks: people are mammals and
mammals definitely operate from a top dog/bottom dog perspective.

>One of the 
>things that attracts me to some cpunk writing is that, sometimes, it mirrors
>capitalist society as it is now ( _Count Zero_, "Stone Lives" in the _Mirror-
>shades_ anthology) -- cutthroat, mercenary, without regard for human needs 
>unless there is money in it.

I agree with this completely, so this isn't a total flame.... :-)

-- 
   | o==== . : ... :  :  .     |Mail Me Neat Stuff->POB 3703 Arlington VA 22203
 --@-- . o o o ... O -O- o o : |No disclaimers needed: I actually pay for this.
   |           ... :  :        |-----------------------------------------------
mEssAGE fRoM sPAcE ARt stUdiOs |Man:TheMissingLinkBetweenApes&HigherIntelligence