HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson)
Subject: Re: United We Stand, America  (was "... Deliver")
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 21:00:04 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA

In article <1992Sep29.181813.9071@kadsma.kodak.com> pajerek@kadsma.kodak.com (Don Pajerek) writes:
>In article <BvAxJn.980@apollo.hp.com> nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes:

>>   A few words about this business of "sharing the pain".  We 
>>   don't need to have tax increases to "share the pain".  Any
>>   serious attempt to cut the deficit will results in LOTS and
>>   LOTS of pain everywhere for the simple reason it will require 
>>   taking massive amounts of capital out of the economy for no 
>>   other purpose than to pay the deficit. 

>Without wanting to sound like a Reaganite, I would like to suggest
>that the only way to reduce the deficit at all, let alone without
>causing the kind of trauma you envision, is through economic growth,
>together with either an outright freeze on Federal spending, or a
>cap on any proposed increase, such that Federal spending cannot grow
>faster than the economy as a whole.

>Easier said than done, of course, but we can start by gradually
>shifting dollars out of the defense budget, both back into the
>private sector,

  "Grow your way out of the deficit" is a popular Democratic concept
  that has scant basis in the numbers.   Do the math.   The defense
  industry already employs lots of production workers and engineers.
  It is largely US-based.  Take $50 billion out of DoD and you lay 
  off, say, 1.2 million workers who depend on that. (not counting the
  multiplier, see below) If all the money you save goes into the civilian
  economy (i.e., NO deficit reduction) then the best you can hope to do
  short-term is to find jobs for the ones you just laid off.   And
  depending on how you redistribute the savings you might not even do
  that well.   I'm serious, do the numbers and explain how this plan
  generates "growth", why that "growth" means growth in US jobs, and
  in what time frame this is supposed to occur.


>         and into a few carefully-chosen Federal projects

  Who does the choosing?   On what basis?


>directed toward infrastructure repair and improvement. Since we
>have only so many dollars to go around, we have to direct them
>to the most productive uses, and history has shown that private-
>sector non-defense jobs have the biggest 'multiplier' effect, so
>this is what we should cultivate and encourage.

  According to an article in todays Wall street Journal the multiplier
  for defense industry jobs is 2.5, i.e., each DoD job lost takes
  another 2.5 jobs with it, for a total of 3.5 jobs.   

  Again, I want to be clear: I'm not advocating NOT cutting DoD, just 
  pointing out that we're in for a VERY tough decade.


---peter




Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:48267 alt.rush-limbaugh:6037 alt.politics.bush:6950 alt.politics.clinton:7529 alt.politics.elections:14459 talk.abortion:38937 alt.sex:31082 talk.religion.misc:17302
From: drieux@wetware.com (drieux, just drieux)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.bush,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.elections,talk.abortion,alt.sex,talk.religion.misc
Subject: Another LBJ Fan heard from
Date: 28 Sep 92 18:57:07 GMT
Organization: Castle WetWare Philosopher and Sniper

krueger@galileo.physics.arizona.edu (Ted Krueger) writes:
] In article <1992Sep21.075818.12170@muddcs.claremont.edu> gmeltzne@jarthur.claremont.edu (Manu) writes:
] 
] [lots of arguments designed to convince someone that a human is not alive 
]  until after birth - deleted]
] 
] The reason why all of these arguments don't work.  If we base legal and 
] factual humanity on people's opinions, what will you do when those who 
] are in charge of making those decisions decide that you are not alive.
 
Ted,

Thank you Ted for pointing out one of the MOST CRUSHING
rebutals in the World!!!! Thank God someone is willing
to stand up against the Heathen and Point out that merely
as one Group of Religious Fanatics have come up with the
Belief that mere Death should be a basis for Disenfranchisement
is NOT sufficient reason to strike those voters from the
voting rolls merely as they live in a Grave!!!!!


Need we talk about the significance of the scripture
that speaks about 'dying in Christ' and that this was
clear justification for Precinct 13 allowing the Dead
to Vote for LBJ.....

ciao
drieux


-- 
Modern Day Problems

Does that 'answer' your question,
or should I be a little more vague.
From: egl1@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Elizabeth G. Levy)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: debates
Date: 2 Oct 92 15:09:40 GMT
Reply-To: egl1@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Elizabeth G. Levy)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Columbia University

In article <Oct.2.07.33.37.1992.28640@romulus.rutgers.edu> kaldis@romulus.rutgers.edu (Theodore A. Kaldis) writes:
>In article <MARTIN.92Oct1171124@chimera.titan.tsd.arlut.utexas.edu> martin@titan.tsd.arlut.utexas.edu (Tracy Martin) writes:
>
>> Both Bush and Clinton have invited Perot to participate in the
>> Debates, if he declares that he is a candidate.  Have they extended
>> this same invitation to the Liberatarian candidate?
>
>No.
>
>> Isn't he also on the ballet in all 50 states?
>
>Probably, but he doesn't have 3 1/2 billion bucks.

Or about 9% of the electorate.

Question for Libertarians out there:

If there were no libertarian party, who would you vote for?

I'm curious how the lib vote would be split between the Dems and GOP.



--
"Sounds interesting....  Sounds interesting...."
				-- Homer Simpson
Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:48465 alt.activism:16892 misc.headlines:6434 sci.econ:7844
From: mpolen@suntory.mti.sgi.com (Michael Polen)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.bush,alt.politics.clinton,talk.abortion
Subject: Re: rights and responsibilities
Date: 30 Sep 92 18:41:29 GMT
Reply-To: mpolen@suntory.mti.sgi.com (Michael Polen)
Organization: Mips Technologies, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: suntory.mti.sgi.com

burkhardt writes:
|> 
|> The point about "very real physical and emotional risks of' abortion"
|> was very well said Andrea.  In the 70's I can remember planned parenthood
|> trying to sell the point that Pro-Choice was simply an educational matter
|> about trying to avoid conception via the pill, IUD's... not about abortion.
|> What Pro-Choice is practicing now is "Limited Choice" without full discloser
|> of all the choices.

How quickly you forget and how little you know.  Planned parenthood was the
only voice for contraceptive information.  At the time (pre-RvW), abortions
were illegal.  Since that time, planned parenthood has added abortion as
a choice.  They still provide contraceptive information, although that is
no longer a monopoly.  They also provide complete information on options for
those that are already pregnant including information on how to go about
adopting, keeping, or aborting.

The statement that "Pro-Choice" is practicing "Limited Choice" is completely
unfounded.  "Pro-Choice" means exactly that -- do what you choose, not what
someone else chooses.  This is in deep contrast to "Pro-Life" organizations
who do practice "Limited Choice."  All choices recommended by a Pro-Life
proponent will be given by a Pro-Choice proponent, but certainly not
vice versa.

-- 
These opinions are usually my own, sometimes my dog's,
occasionaly my (grown) children's, never my employer's.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
From: tzs@stein.u.washington.edu (Tim Smith)
Subject: Re: COUNTER BLITZ -= Strike out against Pork-Party-Politics =-
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 06:54:01 GMT

 adams@spss.com (Steve Adams) writes:
>B645ZAW@UTARLG.UTA.EDU (STEPHEN TICE) writes:
>
>>      o  complex voter registration requirements
>>         (instead of just using state drivers liscence or id's)
>
>Complex?  Illinois registers people to vote at most Driver's facitlities,
>all libraries, and has MASSIVE 'register to vote' campaigns at all of the 
>local supermarkets.

It's pretty simple in Washington, too.  There was a table with someone
registering voters outside the University Bookstore.  I waited about
30 seconds, and then noticed another table about 20 feet away with no
one being served, and went over there, and was registered in about three
minutes.  The only ID I had with me was a California driver's license.

Libraries also handle registration.

Registration in California is similarly simple.

What states have complex requirements?

--Tim Smith
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.elections,talk.abortion
From: niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent)
Subject: Re: Michael Bailey, more info (was Re: New anti-abortion tactic
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 00:43:48 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.170802.17585@ncsu.edu> dsholtsi@csl36h.csl.ncsu.edu (Doug Holtsinger) writes:
>In article <BvHFGM.484@chinet.chi.il.us> katefans@chinet.chi.il.us (Chris'n'Vickie of Chicago) writes:

>>              Mother sues to stop anti-aboriton ads

>> A Jeffersonville, Indiana woman has claimed in federal court that
>> her two children could suffer permanent "psychological and
>> emotional injuries" from graphic anti-abortion ads sponsored
>> by GOP congressional candidate Michael Bailey.

>> Copeland, who characterized her family as "pro-life," said the
>> ads constitute "psychological child abuse," and her children
>> aren't ready to deal with the issues raised in the ads.  

>What is so upsetting about looking at a picture of an aborted
>fetus?  If the pro-abortion people can say that a fetus is 
>nothing more than a "clump of cells", then there should be
>nothing wrong with allowing children to look at a "clump of 
>cells", right?  Or is this another example of their stinking 
>hypocrisy?

1) There are no pro-abortion people.  Only pro-choice.
2) Watching open-heart surgery, or the amputation of a limb,  is 
	pretty disgusting, too.  That doesn't mean it's immoral.
3) She ISN'T pro-choice.  She's pro-life.  Where's the hypocrisy?

-- 
David M. Nieporent   | Orioles 1993 World Series Champions
niepornt@phoenix.    | Mike Mussina 1992 AL Cy Young Winner
   princeton.edu     | Roland Hemond: SIGN BARRY BONDS!!!!!!!!
Vote Clinton/Gore '92.   Four more weeks!!!
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.perot,alt.politics.elections
From: nelson@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Russ Nelson)
Subject: Re: If you don't want Perot:  Bend over to the Republocrats.
Organization: Clarkson University, Potsdam NY
	<1992Oct1.202926.21348@u.washington.edu>
	<1992Oct2.150940.15124@seas.gwu.edu> <lcpeo0INN8vo@spim.mti.sgi.com>
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 03:05:31 GMT

In article <lcpeo0INN8vo@spim.mti.sgi.com> mpolen@suntory.mti.sgi.com (Michael Polen) writes:

   |> >To me, the deficit is just not that much of a problem.

   If there was anything that I thought conservatives and liberals,
   Democrats and Republicans and Libertarians and those misguided
   that support that Texas guy, and old and young, etc. was that
   this is that much of a problem.  We may not agree with how to 
   deal with it, but we all know it is a growing millstone
   around our neck and the necks of our children.

Per se, a deficit is not a problem.  Every business in the world starts off
by deficit spending.  No other way to do it.  The only reason this deficit
is a problem is that it was wasted on armaments that we didn't need.  If
it had been spent on improving our infrastructure, we'd be in a good position
to pay off the debt.  As it is, Reagan and Bush pissed the money away and
now we're screwed.

As I said back in '88, "Despise Reagan now -- avoid the rush".

--
--russ <nelson@sun.soe.clarkson.edu> I'm proud to be a humble Quaker.
Peace is not the absence of war.  Peace is the presence of a system for
resolving conflicts before war becomes necessary.  War never creates peace.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
Subject: Federal Reserve System is a Hoax and Swindle
From: berg@malice.cass.usu.edu (Glenn Berg)
Date: 30 Sep 92 10:04:15
Distribution: world
Organization: The Center for Atmospheric and Space Science, Logan, UT

I discovered this jewel in the letters to the editors section of my local
paper, the Herald Journal (the FED is a pretty hot topic here right now).

To the editor:

  I believe the greatest hoax and swindle ever perpetrated on the American
people is the so-called Federal Reserve System.  To begin with, it is no more
federal than Albertson's or Smith's.  It is a private-owned banking system
whose only goal is to make money and control the world.  The only money that is
United States money is the coin, and there is no silver in them.

  The U.S. Treasury prints the paper money which now reads "Federal Reserve
Note" and sells them to the FRS for the cost of printing, which at the present
time is 3 1/2 cents per bill, regardless of denomination, then they turn around
and loan the money to the U.S. government at whatever interest rate they choose
to place on it.  We now have a national debt of $4 trillion.  Have you ever
wondered who we owe this $4 trillion to?  We owe it to the FRS, a private
company which has never been audited and which pays no tax.

  We read in the history books about the dark ages; the real dark age is the
past 79 years since the Federal Reserve Act was passed in 1913.  The American
public has been kept in the dark about how our money system works.

  Woodrow Wilson, who signed this law into effect, said just before his death,
"I am a most unhappy man -- unwittingly I have ruined my country."  Henry Ford
said, "It is well enough that the people of this Nation do not understand our
banking and monetary system, for if they did I believe there would be a
revolution before tomorrow morning."

  If we had an honest president and a Congress that was not bought by the FRS
through PAC money, we could wipe out the national debt with the stroke of a pen
and go back to the gold standard as our Constitution was originally.

  This year as you vote, if you vote for Bush or Clinton you are voting for a
man who is picked by the same people who control your money and will promote
the New World Order, as they are both members of the Council of Foreign
Relations. 

  In order to keep my conscience clear, I will vote for James "Bo" Gritz, the
only true American patriot on the ballot.

G. Merrill Gessel
Logan


Thank you Merrill.  I will too.  I was wondering how the "money" was transfered
from the U.S. treasury to the Federal Reserve.  Although I don't where you got
your "facts", it sounds plausible.  Wow!  What a deal!  Print money, basically
for free, and then loan it out to the banks and government, who then have the
obligation to pay back both the principle and interest.  How can I buy stock in
the Federal Reserve?

VOTE "BO" GRITZ FOR RIGHTS IN '92!
--
Glenn A. Berg (berg@logan.cass.usu.edu)
Center for Atmospheric and Space Sciences, Utah State University

"We've got one more hill to take... Capitol Hill!" - Lt. Col. James "Bo" Gritz
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.rush-limbaugh
From: dmeier@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Douglas Meier)
Subject: Re: Another freshman on the net
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 01:19:50 GMT

In article <1992Oct3.005007.10613@samba.oit.unc.edu>                          
Chuck.Lavazzi@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Chuck Lavazzi) writes:

>In article <1992Sep30.223800.20932@galileo.physics.arizona.edu>              
krueger@galileo.physics.arizona.edu (Ted Krueger) writes:

>>"Vote Democrat.  It's easier than getting a job."
This statement is true.  Voting Democratic is easier than applying for a job
and actually working at a job.
>"Vote Republican.  It's easier than using your brain."
>Tit for tat, sonny.
This sounds kinda like something my third grade cousin would scream at someone
else on the playground.

And I'm no freshman either, so there!
-- 
Douglas C. Meier		|  Remember to vote this election year,       
Northwestern University, ACNS 	|  you probably won't get another one. 
I don't claim them, they don't	|  
claim me.......			|  dmeier@casbah.acns.nwu.edu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.elections,alt.politics.bush
From: jmk@cbnews.cb.att.com (joseph.m.knapp)
Subject: Re: I'm surprised!
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 17:33:09 GMT

eyc@acpub.duke.edu (EMIL CHUCK) writes:
>Paraphrase from Bush from last night's Larry King on CNN:
>	There are states in this country that require parental approval
>if their child wants to get his/her ears pierced. Yet we can't even tell
>parents when their child is going to have an abortion. Something's
>wrong.

Yes, and it's apparently Mister Bush's inability to see the difference
between a teenager getting her ears pierced and getting pregnant.

My favorite quote concerned the upcoming debates: "He may win on points."

---
Joe Knapp    jmk@cbvox.att.com
"We Inhale" (sign seen at Clinton's rally at Ohio State)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
From: dscharfe@dptspd.sat.datapoint.com (David Scharfe)
Subject: Re: Dial 1-800-HITLER2?
Organization: Datapoint Corporation, San Antonio, TX
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 13:54:13 GMT

In article <farenebt.717811707@craft.camp.clarkson.edu> farenebt@craft.camp.clarkson.edu (Droopy) writes:
>
> [deleted]
>
>At least with Bush and Clinton, we know a lot more about where they
>stand. It may not be as much as we would like but we certainly know
>a lot more about them then Perot.

Oh, really?

Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
From: visser@convex.com (Lance Visser)
Subject: Re: Who's your math teacher?? (was Re: Perot Again??)
Organization: CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, Tx., USA
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 02:15:20 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

In <1992Sep25.002626.1372@cnsvax.uwec.edu> falknemj@cnsvax.uwec.edu writes:

+>In article <visser.717354989@convex.convex.com>, visser@convex.com (Lance Visser) writes:
+>> 	Now, Perot is raising 750 billion dollars over five years to
+>> close the deficit.  300 bn * 5 = 1500 billion dollars in deficits over
+>> those years.  To me anyway something just does not add up here. 
+>> There isn't really enough solid information in the book to understand
+>> what exactly they are doing to close the deficit.   All sorts of 
+>> nice "corporate" charts and graphs, but no hard numbers.

+>  One problem with your math.

+>  That assumes that the deficit remains 300 bn.

+>  But let's try this, Lance

+>  1993  300 bn
+>  1994  200 bn
+>  1995  100 bn
+>  1996   75 bn
+>  1997   75 bn

	So your saying that independent of the Perot "plan" that the 
deficit is going to reduce itself via economic growth to the levels
your listing above.  I'm sorry, but that seems just a bit optimistic
to me.  
	Now for perot's plan to work, the sum of the deficits for those
five years, before you factor in perot's spending cuts and tax increases
has to equal 750 Billion dollars.....or averaging it for the sake of
arguement, about 150 billion dollars a year.



+>  TOTAL:  750 Billion.

+>  You just believe that the deficit will stay 300 bn no matter what.

	And you believe that, independent of the perot tax increases and
the cuts, that the deficit is going to fall by "magic".




Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,misc.headlines,talk.politics.mideast
From: arf@ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Re: Jack S Defends MLKing Slur (Was: ARF DEFENDS HIS HONOR)
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 03:07:11 GMT
Organization: ddsw1.MCS.COM Contributor, Chicago, IL

In article <1992Oct2.171314.26925@panther.mot.com> ronf@panther3.panther.mot.com (Ron Feigen) writes:
>>>We know you think the KKK,White Aryans,White Supremists and Neo-nazis 
>>>are really an enlighten bunch of guys, who are way ahead of their time.  
>>>But most of us find them revolting. 

>Poorly worded I guess.  The enactments of thier beliefs are illegal.  The believe
>in segregating blacks, and other minorities from whites.  Reserving the USA for 
>WHITES only.  Of course Jews or other non KKK type Christains do not qualify as 

You have lumped a whole bunch of different groups and defined parameters
that somehow include David Duke.  Remember, he was accused of doing evil
things?

Most of what I have heard in the recent past from these people is that 
they want their own enclave free of others.  That is far different from
driving them out of the country.  BTW, how do you feel about the nice Jews
in Israel driving the nasty Arabs out of their country?  And the Billions
we American taxpayers shell out to help them?
js

Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:49642 alt.politics.perot:1868 alt.politics.elections:15223
From: hallam@zeus02.desy.de (Phill Hallam-Baker)
Subject: Re: RUN Ross RUN
Keywords: significant words from a document used as an index to content
Reply-To: Hallam@zeus02.desy.de
Organization: Deutsches Elektronen Synchrotron, Experiment ZEUS bei HERA
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 18:51:30 GMT

In article <1agrh3INN1m2@matt.ksu.ksu.edu>, strat@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Steve Davis)
writes:

|>egl1@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Elizabeth G. Levy) writes:
|>
|>>Goddamn.  I wanna put that "Run Ross Run" bumper sticker on the front
|>>of a Mack truck.  "Sprint Ross Sprint?"
|>
|>>waiting for stratocaster....
|>
|>(I'm blushing.)
|>
|>Hi Suze.  Nice of you to remember me.  Actually I'm voting
|>Libertarian this year. ;-)
|>
|>Stratocaster

So,  wheres the appology for your previous behaviour?

You still have not retracted your libel against me.

We are still waiting by the way for some evidence that Perot has a policy
besides wrapping himself in the flag and making vaccuous statements.

--

Phill Hallam-Baker
From: mikeq@freddy.CNA.TEK.COM (Mike Quigley)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Bush's China policy--what the hell is going on?
Date: 6 Oct 92 19:17:33 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Redmond,  OR.

Members of the Bush family own a hotel in China. Kissinger and Associates
have trade interests in China. US business enjoys a huge tax break if it
buys products made in Chinese prisons by forced labor. Plus, extra profits
from selling those dirt-cheap products for high prices. 

Fidel should be so lucky.



Mike
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,ca.politics,ba.politics