Newsgroups: sci.econ
Subject: Re: Milton Friedman...
From: demon@desire.wright.edu (Stupendous Man)
Date: 31 Aug 92 14:26:22 EST
Organization: Demonic Possesions, Inc.

In article <52652@dime.cs.umass.edu>, yodaiken@chelm.cs.umass.edu (victor yodaiken) writes:
> In article <2098@usna.NAVY.MIL> potter@silver.usna.navy.mil (Mr. Jeff Potter (CADIG  STAFF)) writes:
...
>>  Just what type of economic system do you advocate? Your comments
>>have been limited to derision of Libertarianism. So what is your
>>Utopia? Status Quo Americana with a staggering deficit? Marxist
>>Communism which has been a dismal failure all over the world (Just
>>look at Cuba today if you need more proof. Soap is rationed to 1/2
>>bar a month...). Pure socialism as Sweden had which also failed.
>>  How much more proof do you need? The U.S. declining though it
>>is, is an economic powerhouse because of CAPITALISM, and individual
>>liberty. Please enlighten us as to your position.
> 
> 
> Sweden was pure socialism?You must be using a non-standard definition
> because a nation which has an economy dominated by privately held and
> very large corporations is not usually considered to be "pure socialist".
> And, while I am certainly no apologist for Castro, I think you need to
> look at Cuba more closely. Cuba is under an economic blockade from the

	Victor's political presuasion shines through here.  Even H*r*l can't
defend the use of the term "blockade".  It's an embargo.
	And prefectly legitimate.  Nobody should be forced to sell anything to
anyone.  If I choose not to sell my goods in city A becuase I find their police
system corrupt, should I be forced to sell my goods in city A anyway?

> dominant economic power in the region and has been the target of both
> political and economic attacks for 30 years. Despite this, 
> most Cubans have enjoyed  a standard of living which is far above that
> of comparable latin american and Caribean nations. Compare Cuba, for

	Those that aren't in prison--or dead.

> example, with Haiti, a nation which has welcomed American investment
> and economic aid.

	Cuba lived off of the xUSSR for it's entire existence.  Now that that
particular sugar daddy is gone, you see the real Cuba.  No food.  No fuel.  A
mimicing of the Khmer Rouge exodus from the cities in order to force more
people to grow food.

	It's quite sad.

	Haiti has been a military dictatorship of another flavor, and is faring
even worse.  I think I'll compare both of them to Puerto Rico instead.

> As for my own economic views, I am in favor of economic systems which
> will encourage prosperity and  democracy and which will not destroy the 
> biosphere. And on this basis, I favor what seems to me to be an updated
> Jeffersonianism: small business, co-operatives, worker/community
> run business, breakup of concentrations of economic power, control of
> large scale investment in as democratic a way as possible -- e.g. through
> elections, recall, binding referendum, lottery like appointments to
> boards of major institutions (similar to jury selection), ....
> I agree with J.S. Mill that a system in which the populace is divided into
> a small group of investors and a large group of job-seekers is one which
> is inimical to social progress, and as we have learned since the time of
> Mill dangerous to the environment. I agree with the people who originally
> called themselves libertarians (e.g.,  Bakunin, Kropotkin, and thier
> modern heirs like Chomsky and Bookchin) that  centralized rule, either
> by "Communist" bureaucrats or their corporatist counterparts is both
> immoral and inefficient. And I don't believe that any society can
> or should survive if it does not act to protect and support those who
> for one reason or another cannot protect or support themselves. 

	Ahhh, thus the contempt for today's Libertarians.  They've
out-libertarianed the socialists.

	Libertarians hold individual rights supreme.  Socialists can not say
the same.

Brett                                                      
_______________________________________________________________________________
Proconsul Computer Consulting                                        CHA-CHING!
Better, Cheaper, Faster					       (Pick any two :)
Disclaimer:								   NOT!
Newsgroups: sci.econ