HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: Music of the Fantastic
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 03:54:38 GMT

In article <25AUG199215350834@portal.lasc.lockheed.com> le01167@portal.lasc.lockheed.com (Ron Nadel (x2025)) writes:
>>In article <EeaIluy00WBKA5rK0l@andrew.cmu.edu>,
>>> .  I would like to find more orchestral works which are
>>>along this line; grounded in the fantastic and/or macabre.

>There's Bartok's Miraculous Mandarin Ballet (and suite). 

>Don't pass up Berlioz's Symphonie Sequel _L'Elio_, although

That's "Lelio."  The hero's name.

>strictly speaking it's not totally orchestral with a speaker
>and choral parts.

And a movement with piano accomp.  A sort of garbage heap of Berlioz
leftovers, with a fairly silly narrative to string the m together.
Unintentionally hilarious, if performed exactly as specified, alas. 
Berlioz pushed it too far with this one, though some of the bits are
very good.

>If not already mentioned to death there's Saint-Saens' Danse
>Macabre and Mussorgsky's Night on Bald Mountain.

Actually, you might consider *most* of Rachmaninoff's music to have
at least an element of the macabre.  He was perhaps overly fond of
quoting the "Dies irae" in this work and that, or at least alluding to 
it.  Of course it's blatant in the later works.   There are also some
things like "The Isle of the Dead," a symphonic poem.  

(Memo to Brian: what do you think of Rach's metaphysical value
judgments?  I doubt they're your speed.)

>Stravinky's Ballets fit the bill (the big trio Firbird, Petrushka, 
>and Rite of Spring particularly).

Oh, heck, half of Romanticism fits.  Weber's Freischuetz and Oberon.
Wagner's Flying Dutchman.  (Use the overtures if you only want orchestral.)
Schumann, Mendelssohn, MAhler.  Saint-Saens.  Franck (Chasseur Maudit!).
On and on.

Roger (note new address)

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: chrisi@lloyd.Camex.COM (Chris Ischay)
Subject: this is a word?
Organization: Camex Inc., Boston MA
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1992 12:56:39 EDT

In article <1992Aug31.084248.21411@nuscc.nus.sg> art30248@nusunix2.nus.sg (NG LING LING) writes:

>His Violin would
>rival his master's interpretation (Menuhin) but with a definitely
>quicker fingerboard work-rate.

This is a word?  What does it mean?  Are we applying the Jeff Beck test
here?

Chris Ischay
chrisi@camex.com
From: chem91@Rosie.UH.EDU ("Bill Harrison (713)-743-2789")
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: John Cage is Dead
Date: 27 Aug 92 14:41:44 GMT
Article-I.D.: menudo.1992Aug27.144144.23223
Reply-To: chem91@Rosie.UH.EDU
Organization: University of Houston

In article <1992Aug27.064005.19708@uniwa.uwa.edu.au>, diarmuid@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Diarmuid Pigott) writes:
>brian@quake.sylmar.ca.us (Brian K. Yoder) writes:
>[stuff about the USSR deleted...]
>: Their offical policies on the
>: laws of physics are similar to mine too, but that doesn't make me wrong there 
>: either. 
>
>erh... Excuse me, I don't think you mean that. Remember Lysenko?

------------------------

Lysenko was an "agrobiologist". His "career" under Stalin went through 
spectacular ups-and-downs. He came to real prominence under Krushchev (sp).
and was finally disgraced when Brezhnev took over... Soviet attitudes to
quantum mechanics, cosmology, cybernetics etc. are discussed in *Science,
Philosophy and Human Behavior in the Soviet Union* by Loren Graham (sp), a
fascinating (IMHO) read.

Bill

+ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\               /~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Bill Harrison,            \             /       "Be as radical as... |
| University of Houston, TX  >-----------<         reality itself"     |
| CHEM91@JETSON.BITNET      /             \                V. I. Lenin |
+ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~/               \~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: gckchin@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Kelvyn Chin)
Subject: Re: A Brahms Contrarion
Organization: Nanyang Technological University - Singapore
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 13:39:45 GMT

sec@otter.hpl.hp.com (Simon Crouch) writes:
: 
: Bravo! Encore!
:

Seconded! Way to go, Jeff! Anyway, thanx to this discussion I
just got my hands on the German Requiem, can u believe that! It
was *wonderful*; can't stop listening to it everyday. Recommendations
(by email) for recordings of the Requiem are welcome: thanks in
advance.

 
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad)
Subject: Re: Winterreise
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 13:19:28 GMT

In article <1992Sep1.211335.10349@Princeton.EDU> mikulska@astro.princeton.edu (Margaret Mikulska) writes:

>In article <1992Sep1.200220.1087@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> wchsieh@beethoven.lcs.mit.edu (Wilson Hsieh) writes:

>>There is always the Fischer-Dieskau recording; unfortunately, I can't
>>remember the pianist's name.  Ah, the onset of old age...

>Recording*s* - he recorded it several times:

>* with Gerald Moore (more than once) - EMI, DG
>* with Joerg Demus - DG (I'm almost sure there was a Winterreise with
>  Demus, among other songs or cycles)

In this case, I think the Demus recording came *first*.  At any rate,
the first Moore, on EMI, was F-D's second recording of it, issued around
1963.

>* with Alfred Brendel - Philips

And you forgot the one just before that, with Daniel Barenboim on DG.

There was almost a seventh F-D Winterreise!  He was at first unhappy
with the tapes with Brendel, and wanted to remake it.  But eventually he
reconsidered, and consented to their release.

>The ones with Moore are regarded as classics.  

My preference is for the later of these 2, on DG (at the time F-D was
recording most of Schubert's songs for DG).  The voice may have lost a
touch of spring in the 8 years since the EMI, but only a touch; and the
partnership and artistry seem at their peak here.  This is available on
a single CD.

>Old age?  You must be young if you remember only one recording of
>Winterreise with F-D :-)

And let's not even count how many Dichterliebes et al....

Jon Alan Conrad
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Piano For Sale, $1100, in Cambridge
From: habersch@husc9.harvard.edu (Oren Haber-Schaim)
Date: 27 Aug 92 09:06:14 EDT
Distribution: ne
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

BALDWIN SPINET PIANO FOR SALE

$1100, Good Condition, located in Cambridge.

Call Aijing:    621-0839 (H)    [both area codes are (617)]
		494-7856 (W)
				(Aijing is not on the net, so
				 please use the phone numbers.)

-- O.H.

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: jeffw@or.credence.com (Jeff Winslow)
Subject: Re: Wedding music recommendations
Organization: Credence Systems Corp. Beaverton, OR
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 00:55:38 GMT

I once played the following for a wedding - seemed to work out pretty well...

Processional:

Schumann, Fantasia Op.17, second movement, just the opening theme and repeat
as needed.

Recessional:

Schumann, Symphonic Etudes, final variation; fortunately I didn't have to
play more than about the first three pages.

>Reception music we would hope to garner special suggestions from the
>following composers, Stravinsky, Bartok, Beethoven, RAVEL, Scriabin,
>Tchaikovsky, Mozart, Chopin, Dvorak.                                 

Oops, deleted too much. Oh well, if this is going to be recordings...

Surely something from Le Sacre du Printemps would be appropriate? :-)
(How about the end of Firebird for a recessional?)

The finale from Beethoven's 7th should be good wedding feast music.

Ravel, eh? There's always Alborada del Grazioso (sp?). How about the first
movement of the G major concerto?

Scriabin - that's for later, after the guests go home.

I'll let somebody else finish the liszt.

						Jeff Winslow
From: dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker)
Subject: Re: Recordings of S. Richter
Organization: Camosun College, Victoria BC, Canada
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 22:06:52 GMT

In article <17m4pdINNt6f@roundup.crhc.uiuc.edu> korkosz@uicsl.csl.uiuc.edu (Richard Korkosz) writes:
>Hi folks, 
>
>	I'm interested in hearing opinions on CD recordings made by 
>Sviatoslav Richter.  What performances really knock your socks off?  If 
>anyone has a discography of his recordings, that would be wonderful as 
>I'd really like to explore them.  However, comments are also welcome so 
>that I have an idea which recordings are especially worth seeking out.  
>I'd like to try chamber works and concertos as well as solo piano works.

Try his 1964 Aldburgh Festival performance of the Schubert Bflat
(D960) sonata. His tempo for the opening movement is the slowest I've
ever heard, but the performance is just breathtaking. It's available
on Music and Arts and on AS Disc CDs.

Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept., Camosun College, Victoria B.C.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: diarmuid@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Diarmuid Pigott)
Subject: Re: Borgesian Conundra [Was:  Manners, children please...]
Organization: University of Western Australia
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 05:12:57 GMT

maverick@cs.berkeley.edu (Vance Maverick) writes:
: No symphony can be guaranteed to be popular as it is
: being written; therefore Cage could not pass the Pigott test without
: writing, note for note, somebody else's *already popular* symphony. 

I'm flattered. The Pigott test indeed. I did _*/NOT/*_ say "guaranteed"
popular. Since you didn't understand that bit, the rest of your comment 
doesn't follow at all.

Now get off your butt and make some suggestions for nominations of "The
Most Ordinary Thing Cage Ever Wrote". Then Brian Yoder can make up his
mind after he listens to them. (?) I'm reminded of the wife caught in
the act on the Dean Martin Show who says "Man? What man? I don't know
what you mean! What a suspicious mind!" with round baby-blue saucer-eyes.
"Ordinary music? What do you mean? Everything he wrote was squarely in the
orthodox tradition! You just have a suspicious mind! What star sign are you
born under?"

That's all. 

except for:
"We discover nothing by ourselves,
But blunder in our seeking on the prize,
As a blind man, groping on chaotic shelves,
May find at last what serves to give him eyes..."

(Cowie, on Discovery)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: le01167@portal.lasc.lockheed.com (Ron Nadel (x2025))
Subject: Mahler's 5th Symphony by Solti and remastering CDs
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Lockheed Aeronautical Systems Co. - Rye Canyon
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 20:39:27 GMT

I've always loved Solti's first rendering of Mahler's 5th, and wore out
many a vinyl copy, so I was eagerly awaiting the day when this would
be remastered onto CD format.  When if did come out (rather early on)
I surprised when I got mine to see that it was AAD (on both the disc
and cover).  Well, within the last year or so, they have re-released
this recording as part of a Solti's Greatest Hits type of series.  
My eyes popped out when I was examining the cover to notice it was
ADD! I asked the clerk, who of course knew nothing (who's this Solti?).

I went ahead and bought the thing (for $9 - sorry England), and although
I have fairly decent equipment (Denon amp and player, and ADS-11 speakers)
I don't think I can tell the difference.  What I'm wondering is what is
the actual mastering of both the initial cd offering and the more recent
one?

Anyone else notice this, or have any information?

None of the other Solti/Mahler remasterings are AAD.

And while we are talking of Solti/Mahler 5, has anyone heard his newest
DDD recording (also with CSO)?  I'd sure like a review.  I didn't care
for his remake of the 9th, although his remakes of 2,3, and 4 were 
improvements (his newest 1st is terrific too, but so was his first
with the London group).

And now that I am displaying the obvious symptoms of Mahleria: I always
felt that Solti's Mahler 8 is a stupendous experience that had no rivals
even worthy of the name.  But I'm hearing good things about Tennstedt's
recording (which I know has the digital advantage).  I had a chance to
hear the entire 1st movement only in the local Tower recently, and I
thought it was very good, but still not a threat to Solti.  Any thoughts?

Ron

ps - those who had desparing remarks and opinions of Mahler in early
     _greatest_ composer threads need not respond.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: steve@fid.morgan.com (Steve Apter)
Subject: Re: Janacek's Glagolitic Mass
Organization: Morgan Stanley & Co., New York, NY
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 05:45:52 GMT

In article <1992Aug25.170223.17199@midway.uchicago.edu> gustavo@dent.uchicago.edu (Gustavo Comezana) writes:
>    Has anyone had a chance to listen to the new recording of the
>Glagolitic Mass conducted by M. Tilson Thomas? I would be interested
>to hear opinions on this particular performance, but comments on other
>recordings currently available will certainly be welcome. I have owned
>(and gotten rid of) the recordings by Rattle (boring!) and Kubelik
>(awful, grotesque brass playing in the last few bars of the work), and
>I would like to fill this gap in my collection. I know that there are
>at least three other recordings currently listed (Kempe, Shaw,
>Mackerras), but my sole source of information on this point is the
>Penguin Guide (for all that's worth: they *love* Rattle, of course).
>
>    Thanks.

The Mackerras, certainly.  And Ancerl's, intermittently available
on Supraphon and Fidelio.

My rule of thumb regarding Janacek:  the closer to Brno the better.

Margaret, if you're listening:  which performance was available on
LP (Urania?  Monitor?), and entitled _Slavonic Mass_?  Czech conductor,
ancient-sounding recording.  Not Talich.  Not available yet on CD.
Memory says:  the best ever.





Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: steve@fid.morgan.com (Steve Apter)
Subject: Re: Winterreise
Organization: Morgan Stanley & Co., New York, NY
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 20:50:43 GMT

I've been listening to two versions:  Schreier/Richter on Philips,
and a newish recording on Channel Classics with Max van Egmond
(fortepiano) and Jos van Immerseel (baritone).  Both are wonderful.

I'd welcome pointers to other performances, opinions, observations,
whatever.

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: diarmuid@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Diarmuid Pigott)
Subject: Re: Borgesian Conundra [Was:  Manners, children please...]
Organization: University of Western Australia
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 03:35:39 GMT

maverick@cs.berkeley.edu (Vance Maverick) writes:
: OK, now that I know this is what you mean, I can lay off the silly
: humor.  You wanted to find something along the lines of Picasso's
: early work to show for Cage.  As it happens, Cage's path to his own
: music doesn't seem to have passed through anything analogous to
: harlequins.  (I understand his earliest surviving compositions are
: exercises in a very strict personal form of serialism.)

This was my understanding as well. This is the problem that Brian Y faces.
Nothing can change that. And that was the point of my original posting. 

: Of course, as you very well know, the charm of the Blue Period says
: nothing about the quality of _Les Demoiselles_....

Absolutely - and neither would either chopinesque etudes indicate what
Cage could do with Joyce.

: Surely Brian would be capable of judgments like "What a waste of a
: great talent", had Cage indeed knocked off a few Rachmaninovian
: concerti in the his apprentice years.

Indubitably. But we could have said (as all of have said to someone)
"But if a man that clever wanted to do that, shouldn't we try to find
out why?"

This is why we can tell Brian Yoder to perservere with the Grosse 
fugue, isn't it? 

We really aren't disagreeing that much...
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: abrodnik@watdragon.uwaterloo.ca (Andrej Brodnik (Andy))
Subject: Looking for music company (help please!)
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 14:00:38 GMT

A friend of mine is trying to make a contact with: "Highland Music Company".
The last address he has is: "Highland Music Company, 1311 North Highland
Avenue, Hollyood 28, California". The address is early sixties.

The reason why he is trying to reach them is because he'd like to translate
the book "Artistic Trumpet, Techique and Study" into Slovene, and they have a
copyright on it from 1962.

Some more data about the book; the author is "Irving R. Bush", who was (is)
"faculty member of Los Angeles State College, Hollywood T.V., Motion Picture
and Recording Artist, appears frequently with the Los Angeles Philharmonic and
Hollywood Bowl Orchestras". The book was printed by "Golden West Music Press,
Hollywood 28, California".

I'd appreciate _any_ help in search (address, phone number, fax number, e-mail
address.-), any hint, ...).

With the best regards and thanx in advance,

Andrej 

PS: Please reply by e-mail, as I'm not regulary reading all newsgroups I put
in the header.
 
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: diarmuid@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Diarmuid Pigott)
Subject: Re: Cage's Bunnies (was Re: Manners, children please...)
Organization: University of Western Australia
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 03:45:15 GMT


jamesc@bassclar.Eng.Sun.COM (James Langdell) suggests:
: "Three Dances for Two Prepared Pianos". 
:  ballet "The Seasons" 
: very early (1930's ?) unaccompanied clarinet sonat

as good "bunnies"

Thanks. Any more suggestions?

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: hafner@ifi.unizh.ch (Michel Hafner)
Subject: Re: Korngold
Organization: University of Zurich, Department of Computer Science
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 92 10:38:28 GMT

In article <CB.92Sep3111810@tamarack13.timbuk> cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster) writes:
>Deryk Barker wrote:
>   
>   [Korngold] wroted damned good film music, and maybe he
>   actually did find his forte in Hollywood.
>
>I wrote:
>
>   As I understand it, he was not just *good*; he essentially invented
>   the whole technique of film scoring.  Maybe Bob K. can fill this in.
>
>Michel Hafner writes:
>
>   That's not true. He certainly was one of the top five film music
>   composers in Hollywood from the mid 30s to the mid 40s, but he didn't
>   invent the basic scoring techniques. These were established by many
>   people and start with silent films that had already original music
>   composed for them in addition to arrange- ments of classical
>   compositions. There were equally good scores composed by
>   contemporaries of Korngold (who started 1935 )
>
>OK, this is how I remember an account that I heard or read.  People had
>indeed been writing film music for a while, but it was more generalized:
>one 20-minute section of music would have the same over-all mood as the
>scene it accompanies.  Korngold supposedly developed the fine-grained
>technique of matching musical details to movie action--the kind of thing
>that's familiar from old mysteries and adventures, where seemingly every
>step (especially transitions of any kind) is individually expressed in
>the music.  (This is quite an interesting case for the debate about what
>music "means".)  I can't vouch for the accuracy of the foregoing
>description, but I heard it from an expert so it must be true.  :-)

I don't think so. If this means that Korngold invented the motivic approach
( giving people, situations, states their own motives and combining them accor-
ding to the action on the screen ) the answer is a definitive no. If it means
he invented mickey-mousing ( accompanying almost every movement etc. with
a corresponding musical cue ) the answer is also no. Steiner used often mickey-
mousing ( which is despised by music critics ) and Waxman ( and others ) used
a motivic approach before Korngold. There are books available about the histo-
ry of ( American ) movie music where you can read for yourself how the field
emerged since the silent era ( for example: "American Film Music: Major
Composers, Techniques, Trends, 1915-1990; William Darby, Jack Du Bois;
McFarland, ISBN 0-89950-468-X )
								Michel Hafner
From: wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: VOCAL Wedding music suggestions?
Date: 28 Aug 92 16:10:27 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620

In article <1992Aug24.165830.29702@newsgate.sps.mot.com>, altizer@figaro (Robert Altizer) writes:
> After all the instrumental music recommendations, how about some for vocal music
> for a wedding?  (I appear as the singer.)  What I'd like to see are your picks for:
> 
>   1) Male solo (baritone or bass-baritone)
>   2) Female solo (lyric soprano)
>   3) Duet (above voices)
> 

The classic soprano aria for a wedding is the Alleluia from Mozart's
"Exsultate, Jubilate" (I'm open to correction)---not that it's entirely lyric
soprano stuff. For a baritone-soprano duet, how about La ci darem la mano from
Don Giovanni? You may want to check on the circumstances of singing to avoid
complaints from over-knowledgeable guests, but it's a glorious tune. Since
we're talking Mozart, I'm sure you can find something in the operas for solo
baritone that is suitable.
-- 

Stephen Wilcox             |   Remember what happened to the dinosaurs!
wilcox@maths.oxford.ac.uk  |    I did---and look what happened to me.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster)
Subject: Candide broadcast
Organization: pubs
Date: 1 Sep 92 14:36:55 CDT


Tonight, the Arts & Entertainment cable channel will broadcast
Bernstein's Candide.  This is with the London Symphony.  What version is
this?  Is it the one that was on PBS a few years ago?  Or the revision
of the recast improved revised revision?

Chris Brewster
cb@cray.com

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: le01167@portal.lasc.lockheed.com (Ron Nadel (x2025))
Subject: Re: Mahler's 5th Symphony by Solti and remastering CDs
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Lockheed Aeronautical Systems Co. - Rye Canyon
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 92 16:13:12 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.180333.4315@spang.Camosun.BC.CA>, dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker) 
in all fairness writes...

>I will confess to only really being familiar with [Solti's] Mahler and
>Beethoven. 

That is a pretty narrow slice from his recording career, I'd have to say
(his Beethoven is variable, but he has a great 3rd & 9th from the 70's).
Try any of his Bartok if you get a chance, just about any of his Wagner
and R. Strauss opera recordings (esp The RING, Salome, Elektra, Rosenkavalier,
Tannhauser, Lohengrin).  I wouldn't say that he is so consistently great
with all composers - his Stravinksy, Debussy, and Brahms leave me cold,
but then there's his recent Schubert symphonies and a really terrific
Orfeo ed Euridice by Gluck.

>Mind you, I did, in a fit of excess zeal for digital
>recording in the early 80s, buy his Bruckner 5. This has to be one of
>the worst performances I've ever heard...

Well, that's Bruckner for you...

>Maybe not. Maybe he wouldn't have won so many Emmys either?

I feel the same way about all of Karajan's Grand Prix du Disque
awards.  For awhile there, almost every one of his recordings of
the 60s-70s garnered an award, but I wonder if Herb's name was
left off the cover, if people would have reacted similarly?

For my money though, these two (along with Giulini) were the greatest 
conductors in the 70s-80s, and on nearly opposite ends of the playing
field.  Interestingly Karajan hated Solti and his work, although Georgy
held Karajan in at least high professional esteem.

Ron