From: rlosee@unlinfo.unl.edu (Robert Losee)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.motss,alt.atheism,ba.politics,ca.politics
Subject: Re: Support for Boy Scouts
Date: 23 Jul 92 16:13:46 GMT
Organization: University of Nebraska - Lincoln

In <SLAGLE.92Jul21213040@sgi417.msd.lmsc.lockheed.com> slagle@lmsc.lockheed.com (Mark Slagle) writes:

>In article <1992Jul20.212755.28174@unlinfo.unl.edu>, rlosee@unlinfo.unl.edu (Robert Losee) writes:

>> Actually Mike I've gotten two responses like yours but am surprised at
>> how few.  Maybe only a couple people are reading this thread.  I also 
>> need to point out that I'm not talking about a "big hairy thunderer" 
>> as God but as a metaphysical rightness in the universe.  In any case 
>> the number of people I've heard of who claimed a concept of God helped
>> them so overwhelms others like yourself that I'll play the odds and 
>> stick to wanting the BSA to keep its God policy.

>The only reason the odds are in your favor is because you stacked
>the deck yourself.  The framing of the issues predetermines the
>response that you seek.  You also see a lot of people going
>around thanking their lucky stars, but they don't thank them for
>something that wasn't there.  God is not a reality in the lives
>of some people.  They are not likely to give thanks for a
>negative presence.

>Some people blame or credit god for what happens to them, others
>do the same for rabbit's feet, still others use fortune tellers
>to explain their lives to themselves.  But just because your
>particular brand of superstition includes a built in predilection
>to thank god for everything, that does not make it objectively
>correct.  You're entitled to your beliefs and your faith, and
>you're entitled to claim every chance occurrence as evidence of
>god's miracle, but that doesn't constitute any kind of proof of
>anything.  That's why they call it faith, not fact.

I couldn't agree with you more on this Mark.  For that matter I think 
most Christian churches implicitely agree in that they make faith 
such an important part of the experience.  On the other hand I'm 
equally convinced that God existence can not be disproved.  So I 
believe technically I'm an agnostic.

>But you go even further.  You also say that your faith makes 
>it right for you to exclude those that don't share it from
>participating in the Boy Scouts.  If the Scouts were a church
>group, then I would rally behind your right to make any sort of
>silly rules that you like.  But it's not, and it's not just the
>bailiwick of christians or other monotheists.  It's a secular
>organization that happens to have a couple of references to god
>in its rituals, apparently mostly for historical reasons.  But
>it's still secular.  I'd like to see it stay that way.

Mark, as I understand your arguement you wish to sweep religion out of
government, out of the parks, and the streets, and hold it hostage in
a few stone building we call mosques, synagogues, temples....  I
dismiss this.  I think an non-governmental organizations can pick
whatever level of religious participation they wish.  This is the
american experiment.  Many (perhaps most) who came to this country,
sought the freedom to do just that.

The BSA has its promise, and point twelve of the law.  On my weekend
at camp a few days ago I found prayer began each meal.  Church
services were available for those who wished to participate.  The
program requires all who enter to sign that they believe in some sort
of God, and they remove those who deny the existence of some sort of
God.  I'm in the Cub Scout part of the program where each rank
advancement has portions requiring scouts to discuss or in some ways
act on their religious beliefs.  They support God & Country awards as
part of the program.

In short the BSA is still non-secular.  I'd like to see it stay that
way.
-- 
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Robert D. Losee                 BITNET: ucas402@unlvm
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