From: tperreau@zia.aoc.nrao.edu (The Mad Scot)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Magick
Date: 15 Apr 92 10:43:40 GMT
Article-I.D.: zia.1992Apr15.104340.24433
Organization: National Radio Astronomy Observatory, Socorro NM

To begin with, IMHO, magick & witchcraft in the SCA is very much like
the thread (thread, Hell - coils and coils of hemp rope :-) of
religion in the SCA and at SCA events.  Please direct any flames to me
at my e-mail address above & in my signature below - can't promise
I'll get right back to you, but I will reply.

Now to get on my whisky tun (the Scots equiv. of a soapbox :-)...

In article <1992Apr15.085813.3232@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu> jlevitt@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (Mortiana) writes:
>dlc@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Dennis Clark) writes:
>
>>Gerald_Del_Campo@sorinc.UUCP (Gerald Del Campo) writes:
>
>>> It seems that much magick is mixed in with the Midieval period.  Has anyone
>>> ever adopted the persona of a magician in the SCA?
>>> 
>>> The Queens of England have had personal astrologers, magicians, diviners,
>>> etc.., and it is for this reason that I inquire.
>

Yes, Queen Elizabeth I had a very famous court 'magician', who was
also an excellent statesman, as well as a philosopher and alchemist.
Forget what his name is offhand.

>>  I'm kind of curious about this too.  Every once in a while someone comes 
>>along from a Wicca group and wants to be a druid or wizard in the SCA.  I 
>>usually tell them what I know about such stuff, which amounts to little.  
>>Namely, most of the magic that I have read about (even tales from period) 
>>seems to come from really early pre-christian times and 18-19th century times.
>>The early stuff mostly in the form of fairy tales, the latter from the neo-
>>celtic revival from the 18th century on.  Nothing else.  No documented witches
>>or wizards or druids, just accusations of same and tales of long
>>dead ones.                 ^^^^^^^^^^^

Exactly.  People accused of 'witchcraft'.  Most of Europe went through
a 'purge' of witches in the 1600's.  It even affected the English
colonies here in America (Salem, MA and other portions of New England
- I know, an ancestress of mine was _almost_ tried for 'witchcraft').
There were witch hunts throughout England, Scotland, and France (that
I know of).  I keep meaning to do a research paper on Scottish witches.

>>I have taken the stance that this is because magic and witchcraft (except for
>>perhaps herblore) are in the realm of dragons and pixies - pure fantasy - 
>>and always have been.

I agree.  Even if I do suffer from what the Scots call "Second Sight".
There is no such thing as 'magick'.  I know that some people believed
in the zombie created by voodoo, but this is a purely chemical
reaction, though I do admit that it helps to have a receptive mind to
reinforce this 'belief'.

>
>>> Gerald
>
>>Kevi
>
>I beg to differ on this opinion, m'lord. I am a practicing witch (quite new to
>the SCA, but a practicing witch nevertheless). Our history states that we are
>one of, if not the oldest religions known to have existed. I can give
>you more

Most of the current Wicca style religions are new again due to the
"New Age" phenomena.  I am pretty sure that the book on Wicca, written
by one Starhawk (?  pls. correct me if I'm wrong), is 'based' on one
person's interpretation of what the nature worship _may_ have been.
Sorry, but I cast a skeptical eye at this, much like Geoffry of
Mormouth's history of the British kings - translated from a work that
only he had access to.  I would like to see the primary source(s).

I am not discounting that nature religion is an old one.  There is
a book that I hear is quite excellent ("When God was a Woman" - I'm
waiting for it to come out in the History Book Club or in Quality
Paperback Book Club so I can get it) which goes into some detail about
the early religions, based with archeological evidence.  However, it
is my understanding that Wicca is a fairly recent development (mid
1940's strikes my recollection right off hand).

>detailed and further information if you wish. Please e-mail me at:
>jlevitt@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu    
>I usually go by the name of Mortiana.
>*smilies*
>merry meet, merry part, and merry meet once more,
>        Mortiana
>a.k.a. julie levitt
>(has no registered SCA name yet.)

Some might accuse me of a narrow mind.  I would debate this.  Wicca is
recognized as a religion by some people, a cult following by others.
I am indifferent to Wicca as either a religion or a cult.  If others
want to practice this, then it is their choice, and none of my
business.  If other people are not harmed by it, then it should be
none of my business (Scientology, however, should be banned - this
organization destroys lives) - live and let live.

Non-hostile or semi-hostile e-mail (even flames :-) will be replied to
-- hostile e-mail will be piped into /dev/null.

Time to get off my tun...

Torcail

-- 
================================================================================
Tony Perreault, High Tech Babysitter & Nanny	tperreau@zia.aoc.nrao.edu
Array Operations, Very Large Array	      All opinions expressed are my
Socorro, NM				        own and not those of NRAO