From: phantom@gagme.chi.il.us (Leif Ericksen)
Subject: Re: Time to put in my 2cents worth
Originator: phantom@gagme
Organization: Gagme Public Access UNIX, Chicago, Illinois.
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 01:21:39 GMT

In article <1992Nov9.215800.16771@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> andy@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (Andy Freeman) writes:
>In article <1992Nov8.081428.2621@gagme.chi.il.us> phantom@gagme.chi.il.us (Leif Ericksen) writes:
>>OK the marker die was a special type that needed a special light, I belive
>>a black light to be seen.
>
>In other words, it's useless.  ("Useless" is an improvement on visible
>dyes, which are a bad idea.)  Police don't carry black lights, so
>there's no excuse to drag the suspect in.  (If there is an excuse, the
>
	The thought is that after a cop sprays the guy he is caught and has
the die on him, you got me I did not ask hte guy for exact details and
since he lives in Springfield Il, and I in A Suburb of Chicago, and I
have not talked to him in three years since I left my first University
I can not talk to him and get the stright poop for you as to his case.


>>	As for your friends that are MA and are violent... THEY ARE going
>>against the true meaning of MA... it sounds like they could be Chung MOO
>>Quan from what I have heard about it and yuor statement about them.
>
>Oh, no.  They're going against the true meaning of MA.  That doesn't
>seem to make them less effective.

	SAD :(

>
>I don't know what discipline they like the most - they study a number
>of them.  They have the time because training to beat people up is
>time well spent for someone who makes a living beating people up.
>People who have other interests don't stand a chance.
>
	SAD :(

>>situation se should go FOR THE BALLS, THROAT, EYES!
>>	ALL VERY WEAK TARGETS.... OR EVEN THE KNEES..
>
>So much for meaningful training.  (BTW - The targets listed aren't
>useful opening targets because most people understand that they're
>weak.)

	Well then every women self defense course is useless because they
all teach to hit those targets as far as I have seen as well as yelling.
	A chicago cop is not going around preaching on selfdefense I caught 
a partial speech of his on PBS, and he said the best thing to YELL is
not rape but FIRE! The idea behind that is because most people do not
want to get involved, and dont but if you say something that puts their life
at risk they react, also SO WHAT if hte fire department gets called, they
come with axes.  AT least that is what he said.


>
>>	YES, stats are helpfull they let you know what might really 
>>be going on.
>
>And the stats say that with-gun defense is the smart bet.  In certain
>cases, other things might work, but that's on a case-by-case basis,
>not the blanket recommendation that Ericksen offered.
>
	TRUE, guns and other items can be useful but tell me about it
more I have heard more about women not knowing how to use the gun, being
afraid to use the gun, being unable to get to the gun, after all 
are you going to leave the office with the gun in hand until you get to your
'SAFE  destination?  like the movie 'I dont think so!'

	So, as it is you have weapons always at your disposel hands, head, feet,
knees, car keys, credit cards, pencils, etc.

	I have ever heard in reports was that the majority of the time
when a weapon knife/gun is used it ends up being used against the victim.

	The worst I ever heard is that it is best for the woman when beinher
case.  GRANTED if she fights back and hurts teh attacker it will pi$$ him off
but AS I heard the survival rate and recovery rate if actually raped  
(meaning with penatration ) is much higher amoung women that foughtback than
those who did not.  The biggest thing is as Andy once said when in a bad
situation beware of trouble, be prepared to defend yourslef.

	I am not against Guns when I get some money I am buying one for
myself to use at local indoor ranges for Fun and sport.  BUT IF used
for defense I tell use this much IT WILL NOT WORK if the person is say
50 feet away or closer and you have to pull it out, of a purse
or shoulder hoster, or if you are crazy enough to place it down the
front of your pants the attacker will see that and be on you before you can
fire a shot... ( MOST LIKELY )

	NOW andy I do not know about your state I think it is Cali, but
ass it stands in my area of Illinois if you are able to walk outside
with a gun in your hand for more than 10 mins without somebody seeing
you, calling the cops and tehn having three squads suround you with their
guns pointing at your head you are lucky!  ALSO if you get pulled over,
and do have an FOI card the cops will know it shows up on their computer,
so they maybe antsy.  Then if they decide to search your car and your items
and they find it you go to JAIL here.

	Terrible situtation ( spelling on purpose )

		- Leif Ericksen
		phantom@gagme.chi.il.us

attacked to fight back it makes the attacker more angry and thus worsens her