HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight)
Subject: Re: VEGETARIAN DIET
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 07:39:13 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Keywords: some people need LOTS of food energy


Annette omits some material information (though not, I'm sure, deliberately)
in her discussion of digestion:

"Sugar and other carbohydrates do not require the copious flow of
hydrochloric acid as do proteins, but just enough to further cleave
the cellulose of the foods into an emulsion. Starches have an affinity
for pepsin, which is needed in large amounts for protein digestion.
When this pepsin is lacking due to the absorbing action of the
starches, the proteins are not proplerly split into peptones. As a
result, putrefaction takes place. Furthermore, the starches will
ferment, causing a souring of the stomach and the formation of gas.
Continued indigestion will ultimately cause the breakdown of vital
structures which can result in ulcers and even cancer. Therefore
carbohydrates and proteins should be eaten at separate meals."
Dr. Herbert M. Shelton

"Because of the presence of the three concentrated foods calls for
antagonistic chemical procdesses at the same time, it is a physical
and chemical impossibility for the digestive glands to function properly"
N. Phillip Norman, M.D., Adjunct Professor of Stomatology and Lecturer
in Gastroenterology, NY Polyclinic Medical School and Hospital.
From: jerbil@ultra.com (Joseph Beckenbach {Adapter Software Release Engr})
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: VEGETARIAN DIET
Date: 10 Sep 92 19:53:28 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Ultra Network Technologies

Greetings, Roger Maynard and friends!

	Thanks for posting, Roger, that we can help dispel ignorance about
foods and their use.

	I find it hard to believe that the order of consumption of food,
in particular fruit, makes any difference.  After thirty minutes or so at
table, with the dessert safely in stomach and the coffee and tea to hand,
it's all mixed together.  Once out of the stomach, it's a slurry or liquid.
And in less than three days, it's all out of the system anyway.

	Timing during the day seems to be an individual matter;  I prefer
a light breakfast and two very light lunches, then a heavy dinner.  Fruit
at any time is good stuff -- don't let anyone scare you with "oh it could
ferment" horse-hockey.  If fermentation were a worry in foods going through
the digestive tract, those of us who are allergic to alcohol would be dead,
or have permanent hives, or some such.


		In health,
		Joseph Beckenbach
		vegetarian for six years, and counting....
-- 
----
Joseph Beckenbach	jerbil@ultra.com	408-922-0600 x246
	(speaking from, but not for, Ultra Network Technologies)
Silliness forever, with a side of garlic slaw!
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition,rec.food.veg
From: 91287041@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard)
Subject: Re: VEGETARIAN DIET
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Laurentian University, Sudbury, ON
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 00:07:03 GMT

In <1992Sep9.222706.19975@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:

>In article <l1sn4rp.strnlght@netcom.com> strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes:

>>3. Eat fruit only on an empty stomach. That means after arising or 3 hours
>>after any other meal.

>Which is silly.

I read somewhere that fruit will ferment in the body if it does not pass
through quickly.  Eating foods prior to eating fruit that take longer to 
digest than fruit will slow this passage allowing fermentation to occur.
Does this not make sense?

>People who have high levels of uric acid in the blood do so because
>either they make too much or excrete too little or both.  This is usually
>due to an inherited disorder.  It's not all THAT common, and predominates
>in men.  Most people, vegetarians or not, effortlessly maintain a proper
>level of uric acid.

Well what does one do if one does have high levels of uric acid in the blood?
Can a change in diet change the level?

rm


-- 
roger maynard                    
91287041@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca 
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: tlt38517@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Terry Thiel)
Subject: Re: Does vegetarian get enough nutrition from food?
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 03:05:57 GMT

murphyg@Software.Mitel.COM (Gary Murphy) writes:
>In article <viking.715585452@vincent1.iastate.edu> viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson) writes:
>	   The newsgroup talk.politics.animals is full of vegans who
>   would be quite happy to answer specific questions by e-mail.
>Hardly an unbiased group to consult!  I haven't the reference anymore,
>but during the time some quacks (names available on request) insisted my
>wife's cancer would return _unless_ she adopted such a restricted diet,
>I asked a similar question in sci.med and was referred to a 1988 report
>of a ten-year study conducted by the U.S. Department of Health (I think,
>Fed's anyway) where they warned of the B12 deficiency dangers,
>especially for imposing such diets on small children who do not have the
>stores of B12 that can get adults through such a fad.  I may still have
>This is not to say such a diet is not possible, and there are many on
>this planet who live quite comfortably in the complete absense of meat
>and dairy products.  There are others who live comfortably consuming
>mostly meat and fish, and no real evidence of any dangers implicit in
>simply consuming animals (and chickens, which are arguably just
>fast-moving plants ;-) --- there _are_ some weak indications of danger
>in some of the junk commercial food-stocks are fed with, but this
>_includes_ plants as well as animals.
Firstly i think its silly of you to expect any newsgroup to be entirely
unbiased.  Thats what this is all about....people sharing their opinions.
You are obviously biased towards meat despite ample evidence that all the crap
we put into out meat in the form of hormones and chemicals is a very bad
idea as is high consumption of fat which is prevalent in meat.  This ain't
1950 you know.
-Terry

Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: C.A.Blunsdon@lut.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Depression: Nutritional treatments
Reply-To: C.A.Blunsdon@lut.ac.uk (CA Blunsdon)
Organization: Loughborough University, UK.
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 16:03:20 GMT

In article <88340@netnews.upenn.edu> white@cattell.psych.upenn.edu (Janet White) writes:
>Does anyone have any information/experience re: nutritional treatments
>for depression? Patricia Slagle, M.D., a psychiatrist at UCLA, wrote
>a book called "The Way Up From Down" dealing with a treatment approach
>for depression using amino acids and vitamin/mineral supplements
>instead of antidepressant medications. It sounds very interesting
>and potentially helpful. Any comments on an amino acid angle in
>the treatment of depression (specifically, tryptophan and tyrosine)?
>
>

Just an anecdote: I bought a pack of L-Tryptophan tablets from a health-food
store and tried one, just one. That night I had vivid dreams full of
intricate geometrical patterns. I was so startled that I didn't take
any more.

Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition,rec.food.veg
From: lara@sgi.com (Lara Allen)
Subject: Re: VEGETARIAN DIET
Organization: Silicon Graphics Computer Systems,  Mountain View CA.
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 22:17:17 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.202944.18189@resonex.com> michael@resonex.com (Michael Bryan) writes:
>In article <BuCA4p.2IH@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca> molnar@Bisco.CAnet.CA (Tom Molnar) writes:
>>
>>BTW, there are good quality calcium supplements that you can disolve in
>>water that are supposed to provide 1500 mg of calcium.  (A doctor prescribed
>>them for my mother) I wonder how useful such megadoses could possibly be....
>
>There is at least one possible *harmful* effect of ingesting large amounts
>of calcium, one of which I'm all too painfully aware:  kidney stones.

very true.
My mom was taking 1200cc's of calcium every morning and
passed a kidney stone (at the time she thought it was
a colon blockage since it was *very* painful)

The doctor recommended that she break up taking the calcium
into two doses instead of one.  She's had no problems
ever since.

And I agree with you that increasing fluid intake is
also very important.

--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  /\ /\       |   lara@sgi.sgi.com   (yorgi's home)  (415) 390-1609
   . .        |--------------------------------------------------------------
  =   =       |Silicon Graphics Customer Support Division
From: bhjelle@carina.unm.edu
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: Annette is Right (was: VEGETARIAN DIET)
Date: 15 Sep 92 21:01:59 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

In article <pwznl+_.strnlght@netcom.com> strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes:
>
>
>I'm amused, though, at how the refuters seem to be contradicting each
>other. In one set of messages I was told that bacteria can't exist
>in the digestive tract, and would certainly be killed by hydrocholoric
>acid. In Diane's she speaks (correctly) of E. Coli normally found in
>the human digestive tract. Now stop me if you've heard this one
>before, but aren't E. Coli bacteria?
>
If you would like a course in human physiology, take one at your
local college. It is a bit much to expect the Net to educate
you on the difference between the stomach and the colon.

Brian
Xref: sparky sci.med.nutrition:188 rec.food.veg:8691
From: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition,rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: VEGETARIAN DIET
Date: 10 Sep 92 14:11:18 GMT
Reply-To: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Organization: COMANDOS Project, Glesga Yoonie

rw@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Robert Walker) wrote:
> I'm a vegetarian and as such I am interested in what nutritional deficiencies
> are _most_ common, in this particular diet, from a _scientific_ standpoint.

None are very common.  For some reasoned and practical advice, try Rose
Elliot's books; Waterstone's (and probably every bookshop in Edinburgh)
has a three-foot shelf of them.

(On the other hand, deficiencies due to a McDonald's-and-Mars-bars-type
diet *are* common; vitamin C, vitamin A and folic acid in particular).

Calling vegetarianism a "particular diet" is misleading; it isn't.  There
are variants ranging from those that include egg and milk products to those
that exclude all trace of them; and, orthogonally to that, there are normal
varied diets of the sort most of humanity has always eaten, and weird
regimens promoted by neo-Eastern religious cults or health-food
entrepreneurs.  The latter category can be lethal, and have undeservedly
given vegetarianism as a whole a bad name.


> Is it really protein deficient.  I have heard that vegetable-based protein
> is harder to absorb. Is this true?

Frances Moore Lappe's books cover this one.  Basically, with the sort of
varied diet your average Scottish veggie eats, there's nothing to worry
about, since the commonly eaten proportions of amino acids in vegetable
protein foods balance out to around the same as animal sources.  Look at
the sort of things Henderson's, Seeds or the Kalpna serve, and cook thou
likewise...

-- 
--  Jack Campin    room G092, Computing Science Department, Glasgow University,
17 Lilybank Gardens, Glasgow G12 8RZ, Scotland   TEL: 041 339 8855 x6854 (work)
INTERNET: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk or via nsfnet-relay.ac.uk    FAX: 041 330 4913
BANG!net: via mcsun and uknet     BITNET: via UKACRL    UUCP: jack@glasgow.uucp
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: rh@spock.inmet (Rich Hilliard)
Subject: Query
Organization: Intermetrics, Inc.
Distribution: sci
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 16:56:24 GMT


Does any one know about a nutritional therapy from an organization
called something like Life Balance (based on Cambridge, MA and
Brattleboro, VT)?  I believe the founder's name is Dr Lynn August.
What's the theory?  Any references?  Is it mainstream, out-field (why
pick on the left :-), or quackery, &c?  Any facts, experiences, and
opinions appreciated (labeled as such, of course).  I'm interested
because my wife is about to consult them.


 Rich Hilliard
 rh@inmet.com


Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: ricegm@ecf.toronto.edu (RICE George Matthew)
Subject: Re: VEGETARIAN DIET
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 13:42:25 GMT

In article <1992Sep10.000703.20574@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca> 91287041@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard) writes:
>>>3. Eat fruit only on an empty stomach. That means after arising or 3 hours
>>>after any other meal.
>
>>Which is silly.
>
>I read somewhere that fruit will ferment in the body if it does not pass
>through quickly.  Eating foods prior to eating fruit that take longer to 
>digest than fruit will slow this passage allowing fermentation to occur.
>Does this not make sense?
>
You probably read it in Fit For Life itself. They make that claim.

Matthew


Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition,rec.food.veg
From: michael@resonex.com (Michael Bryan)
Subject: Re: VEGETARIAN DIET
Organization: Resonex Inc., Sunnyvale CA
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 09:43:35 GMT

In article <1992Sep10.062817.9223@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
>excreted.  However, there are a number of different genetic defects
>which can predispose someone to forming kidney stones.  These people
>(usually identified after their first episode--ouch!) need to limit
>their calcium intake from all sources: supplements, dairy products and

Oh great, now I have a genetic defect! :-)

Actually, I meant to mention that the doctor also said I might have
a "genetic predisposition" towards forming stones.  Although it's
interesting that nobody else in my family has ever had a stone.
Guess I'm the first one to be lucky enough to have the magical
gene combination!

>In any case, this stone formation is pathological, in that most people
>who ingest a surfeit of calcium-containing foods or take too many Tums
>antacids or too many supplements _won't_ suffer from kidney stones.
>However, this is also an excellent way to accellerate the discovery
>of those few people who _will_.

"Excellent" way, eh?  Kids, might I suggest you don't purposefully
try this at home.  A kidney stone moving between the kidney and bladder
is somewhat akin to having a knive jabbed into your side, and slowly
rotated over a long period of time.  Although I might add that kidney
stones introduced me to that marvelous drug Demorol, which *almost*
made it worth having the pain in the first place...   ;-)

-- 
Michael Bryan  michael@resonex.com  "Milk and Cheese in '92!"  |     ,_,
"Lovers are like... dentures.  You don't want them in your     |    /oo \
mouth all night, but you sure as hell want them within arm's   |    <>__|
reach in the morning!"  --- Miss Elmira Gulch                  |    |  U|
From: kenl@origami.cc.bellcore.com (Ken Lehner)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: Is Vitamin C TOXIC ???
Date: 14 Sep 92 19:43:43 GMT
Organization: Bellcore

In article <1992Sep14.184925.20787@porthos.cc.bellcore.com>, jil@uts.uucp (Jamie Lubin) writes:

|> I've been taking ~ 2800 mg. daily for > 15 years with only positive
|> effects. I use a "natural" C as opposed to pure ascorbic acid.

I know very little about the effects of vitamin C on the body.  Can you
please tell us what are the positive effects THAT YOU CAN DIRECTLY
ATTRIBUTE TO THE DOSAGE OF VITAMIN C YOU ARE TAKING?  Saying "I haven't
had a cold in 15 years" won't cut it; neither have I, and I take very
little vitamin C.  Unless, of course, you can state that you used to get
sick a lot, haven't gotten sick in 15 years, and the only thing you
changed was adding large doses of vitamin C.

Yup, it's a challenge.  It's not meant to be a personal attack; I like to
encourage people to relate facts and observations, including enough
information to give some value to what they say.

Also, what's the difference between the ascorbic acid in your "natural C"
and that in ascorbic acid?

Thanks for the info!

kenl
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: ekp@mcnc.org (Edward Pavelchek)
Subject: Re: China Study
Organization: Good place for a disclaimer
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 20:57:42 GMT

In article <jxzn+xa.strnlght@netcom.com> strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes:
>some biological reason to believe he's not designed to eat meat. Apparently
>(from my reading) we only secrete enought of the Uric acid processing
>enzyme to handle a couple of ounces of meat a day, while carnivores
>secrete enough to handle much larger amouonts. Yet the SAD (standard
>American Diet) includes lots more than an ounce to an ounce-and-a-half
>of meat a day. There ARE consequences to having unprocessed Uric acid
>wandering around one's body.

Well, most people don't have gout, so what are the other consequences of
high uric acid levels?  If we can only process 2 oz/day, why aren't
most adults nearly pure uric acid by now? (Uric acid is not 'processed',
it is excreted.)

And relevantly, uric acid is formed from purines, extracted from RNA and
DNA.  Does anyone have data giving the relative nucleic acid content of
meats and various vegetables, fruits or grains?  Preferably on a per
calorie basis.  It's not clear to me that animal tissue should have
more, although I admit total ignorance of experimental fact.

Can some gout sufferer post a table?
-- 
Ed Pavelchek   ekp@mcnc.org
But I make a profit of 3 1/4 cents an egg by selling them for 4 1/4
cents an egg to the people in Malta I buy them from for 7 cents an egg.
Of course, *I* don't make the profit.          Joseph Heller, Catcha 22
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: China Study
Date: 15 Sep 92 14:40:30 GMT
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <scznmn-.strnlght@netcom.com> strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes:
>There is a lot of nonsense pushed by many mainstream nutritionists that
>they have had to recede from, most recently the notion of "complete protein."
>This is now known to be nonsense, and Adele Davis has publicly recanted.

From beyond the grave, presumably.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: Purpose of sci.med.nutrition?
From: dfield@zeus.calpoly.edu (Daniel R. Field)
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1992 03:01:56 GMT
Organization: California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo

In article <1992Sep4.170803.9753@csl.sri.com> boucher@roche.csl.sri.com (Peter K. Boucher) writes:
>In article <=#mnaym.goletz@netcom.com>,
>goletz@netcom.com (Eddie Goletz) writes:
>> In sci.med.nutrition  vlee@vis.toronto.edu (Victor Yuencheng Lee) write:
>> >I doubt whether they will benefit from this diet or not.
>>
>> >What will happen if they keep doing this for their wjole life?
>>
>> >Can anybody give me some idea about this? because I am also interested
>> >in vegetarian food.
>>
>> >Thanx, :)
>>
>> This question is more appropriate rec.food.veg, a  newsgroup about
>> vegetarianism.
>
>I disagree.  rec.food.veg is for vegetarians to discuss new recipes
>and other issues that are of interest to them.  Arguments about
>whether or not a vegetarian diet is healthy are not welcome there.
>
>What is sci.med.nutrition for?  I would have thought that this
>question (above) is precisely appropriate for this group.  Am I wrong?
>I recently posted a question about some rather outrageous claims
>that I heard about fluoride, and have not had a single response.
>Was the question inappropriate for the group, does nobody care, or
>has this already been discussed to death?

No, this has not been discussed to death, as sci.med.nutrition is a brand
new newsgroup.  This is probably a good explanation for why your fluoride
question hasn't been answered.

I agree that questions about the health effects of vegetarianism are 
quite appropriate for this group.  
-- 

                                -Daniel R. Field
                                 dfield@nike.calpoly.edu

Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk)
Subject: Re: Allergic to read wine?
Organization: Pegasus,  Honolulu
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 14:26:15 GMT

>
>I'm okay with some white wines.  But I'm also allergic to beer.  At
>first I thought I was allergic to hops, but now I think I'm allergic
>to sulfates, which is used in many alcoholic beverages as a preservative.
>

Some yeasts can trigger allergies too.


-- 
Richard Foulk		richard@pegasus.com
From: tsf@CS.CMU.EDU (Timothy Freeman)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: Tradeoffs between reproduction and repair [was: weight gain]
Date: 8 Sep 92 21:13:05 GMT
Article-I.D.: U.TSF.92Sep8161305
	<1992Sep8.070445.6093@u.washington.edu>
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon University
Originator: tsf@U.ERGO.CS.CMU.EDU

In article <1992Sep8.070445.6093@u.washington.edu> y8321@carson.u.washington.edu (Yih-Jin Young) writes:

   In article <210@sftwks.UUCP> bradbury@sftwks.UUCP (Robert Bradbury) writes:
   >There has been alot of speculation in the scientific
   >literature that low body weight (caloric restriction) has the major effect
   >of switching energy resources from reproduction to maintenance and repair
   >of DNA and proteins...

   According to John Bongaarts, malnutrition can impair the function of the 
   human reproductive process.  

You're talking about malnutrition, but you're responding to a post
talking about calorie restriction.  They are different things.
Malnutrition is an uncontrolled reduction of the intake of most
nutrients, whereas calorie restriction is a reduction of calorie
intake without reducing the intake of other nutrients.
--
Tim Freeman <tsf@cs.cmu.edu>    CompuServe ID 71045,2267 checked occasionally.
When they took the fourth amendment, I was silent because I don't deal drugs.
When they took the sixth amendment, I kept quiet because I know I'm innocent.
When they took the second amendment, I said nothing because I don't own a gun.
Now they've come for the first amendment, and I can't say anything at all.
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition