HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mchance@nyx.cs.du.edu (Michael Chance)
Subject: Re: Lynch's Spoiler Review: "Chain of Command, Part II"
Keywords: TNG, Cardassians, Picard, torture
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 92 17:39:53 GMT

ruhtra@turing.toronto.edu (Arthur Tateishi) writes:

>Spoilers for CoCII






























>In article <1992Dec24.180131.7419@indetech.com> janet@indetech.com
(Janet Christian) writes (commenting on Tim Lynch's review):
>>
>>I have to disagree with Tim's point about the time line/Picard
>>regaining command. *All* of his wounds had healed, including the bruise
>>area around his mouth and the bruises on his wrists. We can only
>>assume, then, that some amount of time had passed while he recovered in
>>sick bay. Also, his face was not longer gaunt, with deep lines and

>I agree. The line from Troi in Picard's ready room, "I've read your
>report." says that some amount of time had passed for his recovery.
>Also, the return of command of the E would have to go through Starfleet
>after reading his report and debriefing session. If all that time had
>passed but he hadn't had a one-on-one with Troi, it was probably a
>day or two. The after effects were clear from Picard wringing his
>hands and a generally quiet, reflective mood.

Actually, probably more like 2 weeks to a month, minimum.  The mission
to the Cardassian outpost clearly took more than a few days (including
the time after Picard's capture until his return).  Writing up a full
mission commander's report is going to take several days, then the
debriefing from Starfleet (at least 2-3 days).  Plus, as soon as
Starfleet found out that mental and physical torture was used, Picard
would have been placed in to immediate psychotherapy, and not
returned to duty until cleared by a Starfleet HQ psychologist.
They may have radically accelerated the physical healing rates, but
healing mental injuries takes lots of time and patience.

Michael A. Chance
--
Michael A. Chance          St. Louis, Missouri, USA    "At play in the fields
Work: mc3078@sw1sta.sbc.com                             of St. Vidicon"
Play: bq434@cleveland.freenet.edu
      mchance@nyx.cs.du.edu
From: HADCRJAM@admin.uh.edu (MILLER, JIMMY A.)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: RE: The Official Dorm-Rec Review of "Chain of Command -1" (spoil
Date: 21 Dec 1992 21:47:48 GMT
Organization: University of Houston Administrative Computing
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: uhad2.admin.uh.edu
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.20

In <21DEC92.14854873.0073@VM1.MCGILL.CA> CXMP@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA writes:

> >
> >  As far as the implications of this episode are concerned, this should prove,
> >beyond a doubt, that Star Fleet is a military organization.  Not a very good
> >one, but military nonetheless.  Of course, the tree huggers out there who
> >happen to like startrek will remain unconvinced, but who cares.  Proof is
> >proof.
> >
> In "Tomorrow is Yesterday", Kirk described Star Fleet as a "combined
> service".  Meanwhile, Gene Roddenberry insisted that Star Fleet was not
> military and gave the example of a Cruise Line for comparison.  In
> conclusion then, Star Fleet can be considered a Navy, Coast Guard and
> Cruise Line combined in which both explorers/diplomats like Picard and
> kick ass military men like Jelico or Kirk can feel at home.

  I basically agree with the latter poster.  The non-canon FASA ST role-playing
game posited a Star Fleet with several arms, including a Colonial, Merchant
Marine, Military, and Exploration branches.  While no such hard and fast org
chart has shown up on TNG to my knowledge, it makes a lot sense to me to do it
this way, and explains why the big E spends a lot of time looking at gas clouds
*and* getting shot at -- all the explorer vessels would be placed under the 
military branch whenever things got hot.

  And one nit-pick:  In "Tommorow", Kirk mentioned Starfleet of something, and
the Air Force pilot asked "Fleet?  Did the Navy...?"  To which Kirk replied: 
"We're a combined service now."  This does not get you away from military
type things, though it does fit in well with the rest of your theory.


semper fi,

Jammer Jim Miller 
Texas A&M University '89 and '91
********************************************************************************
* Speak for my employers?  They don't even know I exist!		       *
*"Become one with the Student Billing System. *BE* the Student Billing System."*
* "Power finds its way to those who take a stand.  Stand up, Ordinary Man."    *
*      ---Rik Emmet, Gil Moore, Mike Levine: Triumph 		               *
********************************************************************************
From: adamsd@crash.cts.com (Adams Douglas)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Where are the enlisted personal?
Date: 26 Dec 92 16:45:01 GMT
Organization: CTS Network Services (crash, ctsnet), El Cajon, CA

Roddenberry himself said in the early marterial related to TOS that every crew
member on the E was a fully-qualified astronaut and therefore, an officer.

Answer: there are no enlisted personell on the E, civilians yes.

-- 
=====================================================================
Adams Douglas   | Always tell the truth, | You can die like the rest,
adamsd@         | then you make it the   | or be one of the best.
crash.cts.com   | other bloke's problem! | - Cyndi n'ha June, 1992
Chula Vista, CA | - Sean Connery, 1971   |
   
 
 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: m14494@mwvm.mitre.org (Mike White)
Subject: Re: Jellico got it right... !
Organization: The MITRE Corporation
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 16:40:38 GMT

William Herndon writes:
> Picard is certainly capable of being hardnosed when the
> situation warrents it.  Again I refer to _Yesterday's Enterprise_. 
>...Picard's response to
>Riker's idiotic objection was, "I think that I'm aware of your opinion,
>Commander.  This is briefing.  I'm not seeking your consent!"

Yes, but this was in an alternate time-line in which Picard was 
principally a combat officer, not the Father Figure he seems to
be in the "real" time-line.  Were I in command of the Enterprise
(not that I am in any way qualified, mind you, but if...), my first
acts would be to bust Riker down to deckhand, make Data my first
officer, and tell Troi to get herself a Thigh Master and work on 
that butt... ! ;-)

************************
* These are my opinions only.*
************************
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: brad@cmptrc.lonestar.org (Brad Barton)
Subject: Re: Multiple ST Roles
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 15:01:26 GMT
Organization: CompuTrac Inc., Richardson TX

In article <chil.725047259@sfu.ca> chil@fraser.sfu.ca (Keith Lim) writes:
>sro@media.mit.edu (Shawn O'Donnell) writes:
>
>[BTW, there's a bit of very minor crossdiscussion happening here. Let's
>be clear whether we're dicussing different *roles* or different *species*.
>The latter more-or-less necessarily implies the former, but not vice versa.]
>
>Some others I've thought of:
>
>Diana Muldaur has played three roles (but only two species, I think)
>Christopher Collins has appeared as a Klingon and a Pakled.
>Brent Spiner has played an android and a human (and did he play a Borg?--
>     the first one the appeared in Q Who)
>Robert O'Reilly played both a Klingon (Gowron) and has appeared as a (human)
>     holodeck character (in Manhunt). This may be pushing it a bit.
>John Putch has played two different Benzite characters.
>
>Of course, there's always Colm Meaney and Michael Rider.

Michelle Forbes (?) has played two roles, one as Timicin's daughter in
  (aaargh, forgot the title) and as the Bajoran Ro Laren.

Suzie Plakson has played two roles as well, Vulcan Dr. Selar in "The Schizoid
  Man" and K'eylhar in "The Emissary" and (I've gotta get my memory checked)
  the one she's killed by Duras in.

These are the only two I can remember off the top of my head.

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Brad Barton - brad@cmptrc.lonestar.org  |  "Light the lamp, not the rat!"  |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: kenny.unferth@filebank.cts.com (Kenny Unferth)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Where are the enliste
Date: 26 Dec 92 17:07:00 GMT
Reply-To: kenny.unferth@filebank.cts.com (Kenny Unferth)
Organization: The File Bank BBS - Fallbrook, CA  619-728-4318


B>There was an enlisted member in Drumhead.  Remeber he was tried for being one
B>quarter Romulan, etc.  That is the only one I can remember.

Seems to me the old trek had a bunch of enlisted security types.  They
never did seem to last real long though.
---
 . QMPro 1.0 42-0841 . Political Correctness is a Klingon plot.
From: amt@linus.mitre.org (Anne Tallant)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Majel Barret-Roddenberry in Multiple Roles
Date: 23 Dec 92 15:52:33 GMT
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, Bedford, MA



In message <m0n4Kki-0000NdC@juts.ccc.amdahl.com>
rich.bellacera@amail.amdahl.com write:

>Y'all are forgetting one other Star Trek role Majel Barret played.  Here's
>the full list of credits for her:
>
>PROMINENT or RECURRING ROLES
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>ST: PILOT "The Cage"   -  No. 1  (An emotionless, logical humanoid)
>ST: TOS "The Menagerie"   (reused footage from "The Cage")
>ST: TOS                -  Nurse Christine Chapel
>ST: TAS                -  Lt. M'Ress (Caitian Communications Officer)-voice
>ST: TFS                -  Doctor (LtC) Chapel (promoted to SF HQ)
>ST: TNG                -  The Ship's Computer voice
>ST: TNG/DS9            -  Lwaxanna Troi (Deana's mother)

According to a recent interview with Majel Barret (see latest issue of
TIME magazine, the one-page ST:DSN article), she has played the ship's
computer voice in ST:TOS, ST:TNG, and will be playing it in ST:DSN.

In the same article, she makes an interesting observation about ST losing
some of its punch as Gene grew older.
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Anne Tallant                                      amt@linus.mitre.org
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: rolandb@phx.mcd.mot.com (roland blackwell)
Subject: Re: How to improve Star Trek (spoilers)
Organization: Motorola Computer Group, Tempe, Az.
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 23:48:28 GMT

>>In article <1992Dec17.233822.16000@phx.mcd.mot.com>, rolandb@phx.mcd.mot.com (roland blackwell) writes...
I believe one great way to improve the quality of Star Trek is to
better define the talents of the bridge crew.
>
>>     Well, a better way would be to avoid defining characters
>>     by their jobs and instead define them by their... personalities.
>
It appears that bridge crew talents are required
everywhere except at their post.  In 'Booby trap' the captain took over the
helm when a skilled helmsman was needed.
>
>>     Who said Picard wasn't a skilled navigator?  He's also the
>>     one who ordered the risky maneuver and therefore the one who
>>     must take responsibility.  It's an ethics question, not an
>>     ability question.
>
I would of thought the captain to be 
a little rusty to trust with such a delicate task at the helm.
>
>>     Why?
>


After watching "Chain of Command II" I feel even more confused about the
abilities of the crew.  Now we have Riker as "the best there is" as a
pilot(helmsman).  If that is true, then he should have piloted the E in
"Booby Trap".  I understand that a bridge crew member should be versatile,
but shouldn't they normally do what they do best. How would one explain
this qoute, "I heard you needed a helmsman, so I voluntered for the job."(STVI)
I'm not saying to sacrafice the personal side of the crew members character,
just to better define their talents as to enhance their character.  I'm
not going to ask why Dr. Crusher and Worf were on the covert mission with
Picard.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: dave@admiral.uucp (Dave Litchman)
Subject: Re: Re: Galaxy-class Starships
Organization: The Admiral's Unix System & The Grid BBS
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 07:26:50 GMT

In article <85290020@hpcc01.corp.hp.com> boell@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Donald P Boell) writes:
>>Begging your pardon, but I believe the ship that blew up in the
>>"Conspiracy" episode was an Ambassador class starship, not Galaxy.
>
>Wrong, the ship was the E's sister ship - the Yamato.

Wrong indeed. The ship that blew up in "Conspiracy" was an Ambassador class
ship, and was not the Yamato.

The ship that blew up in "Contagion" was the Yamato, the E-D's sister Galaxy-
class ship.


-- 
"Dammit Jim, I'm a free man, not a number!"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Ray, when somebody asks you if you're a god, you say YES!" -- Winston Zeddmore
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: ALI00BAW@UNCCVM.UNCC.EDU
Subject: Re: Picards french lines
Organization: UNC Charlotte
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 21:21:55 GMT

These are the words to an old French children's song.  The words mean, more
or less: "On the Bridges of Avingon {sp?} [a city in s. France] we dance;
the girls dance this way, the boys dance that way."
From: john@newave.newave.mn.org (John A. Weeks III)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Transporting thru shields?
Date: 3 Jan 93 17:57:16 GMT
Organization: Newave Communications, Ltd, Lake Wobegon, MN

In article <2121.2b461aad@mbcl.rutgers.edu> wilson@mbcl.rutgers.edu writes:
> It has been my impression that transporters cannot be utilized thru shieds.
> The repoeat epidosde where Scotte returns prompts this question/comment.  The
> ship Geordi and Scottie are on cleary has the shields up - but are
> transported off the Gelico.

This was hashed over extensively when Relics first aired.  The general
consesus was that the Enterprise cannot transport through its own shields
nor the shields of many of its neighbors ships, but the ship that LaForge
and Scotty were on was 100 years old.  Those shields were effective against
100 year old weapons and transporters, but are easily defeated by 24th
century technology.

An alternate theory is that Gordie and Scotty knew that they were going to
have to be transported while the shields were up, so they tuned the shields
to a particular frequency that would hold the Dyson Sphere doors open yet
allow them the maximum chance to be beamed off.

-john-

-- 
==============================================================================
John A. Weeks III		(612) 942-6969		    john@newave.mn.org
Newave Communications, Ltd.			    ..!uunet!tcnet!newave!john
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current,rec.arts.startrek.misc
From: schroede@bnlux1.bnl.gov (gary l. schroeder)
Subject: Re: DS9: Avery Brooks has attitude.
Organization: Brookhaven National Laboratory, Upton, NY 11973
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 13:41:34 GMT

In article <1992Dec29.151137.45946@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> kuvamp@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:
>This was on the AP Newsnet this morning, thought it might be of interest:

>AVERY BROOKS:  DON'T LOOK FOR HIM AT TREKKIE CONVENTIONS
>
>	Randor, pennsylvania------The commander of the latest Star trek series
>says you won't find him doing any Star Trek conventions.  Avery Brooks says he
>isn't into that.  Brooks plays commander Sisko in the upcoming TV series "Star
>Trek: Deep Space nine."  The syndicated series is a spinoff of "Star Trek: the
>next Generation". Brooks tells TV guide he finds it funny that people think
>that he, like another Trek tv captain William Shatner, may soon become a
>worldwide sex symbol.  He says his "children would find that rather amusing"
>
>
>
>
>_______________END OF QUOTED MATERIAL______________________________________
>
>Gee, isn't it great that Paramount picks actors to whom this is just another
>job, and who have no idea what this role means to people?  I mean if he's
>not willing to put up with the fandom, he should keep his B-grade tv series ass
>at home and give the job to someone who can handle it.  Leave your Ego at the
>door, Avery, or this will be a SHORT job.

Yeah, right.  H's an actor.  It's a job....not a vocation that you must
feel _called_ to.


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gary L. Schroeder  		|  If this .sig causes dizziness or  
schroede@bnlux1.bnl.gov         |  vertigo, dicontinue use and consult    
Brookhaven National Laboratory  |  your physician. 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: Eric Schlene <eschlene@indiana.edu>
Subject: Re: Piccard's butt - Chain of Command II - SPOILERS
Organization: indiana university
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1
     <1992Dec23.051200.18606@netcom.com> <BzpFIv.Myx@csulb.edu>
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 14:55:36 GMT

>Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
>Path: usenet.ucs.indiana.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!news.cso.uiuc.edu!usenet
>From: jeffo@uiuc.edu (J.B. Nicholson-Owens)
>Subject: Re: Piccard's butt - Chain of Command II - SPOILERS
>References: <BznyxJ.FEK@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>
>Message-ID: <BzoEFC.16z@news.cso.uiuc.edu>
>Sender: usenet@news.cso.uiuc.edu (Net Noise owner)
>Reply-To: jeffo@uiuc.edu (J.B. Nicholson-Owens)
>Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
>Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 19:35:33 GMT
>Lines: 56
>
>Eric Schlene <eschlene@indiana.edu> writes
>> So what was gained by making poor ol' Pat appear in the buff? [..] 
>
>I find it very interesting how this shot of Patrick Stewart prompts you  
>to post here like you did, yet you neglect to mention (or refrain from  
>posting this) due to the fact that Marina Sirtis' body is constantly  
>being pressed unnaturally by that body suit normally seen on ST:TNG...

(remaining "attack" deleted for bandwidth)

Whoa...cool your jets a second.

First of all, I'm incredibly insulted that you would analyze my
inner-most beliefs based on what I didn't say. Because Lincoln never
spoke out on cannibalism didn't imply that he wanted to free the slaves
so he could eat them. 

(The fact is, I agree whole-heartedly that we see far too much of the
female artists bodies. That I didn't care to continue a well-debated
arguement on the network only means I'm too busy with work to comment on
EVERY topic.) 

Second, such wholesale stereotyping (as seen in this attack on me) even
if the views of the attacker are politically, morally, or socially
correct, is no more acceptable than neo-Nazi hate campaigns. What's next?
Oh. His name is Eric...Eric's often have penises...rapists usually have
penises...gee, that means Erics usually rape, right? 

Give me a break! If you want to know what I think, read what I type; not
what I don't type. 

Eric Schlene
Not speaking (or even IMPLYING) for my employer, the State of Indiana,
the United States of America, personkind in general, or any diety as you
choose fit to concieve of her/him/it.
From: brad@cmptrc.lonestar.org (Brad Barton)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: COC2-- 5 lights?
Date: 28 Dec 92 15:37:19 GMT
Organization: CompuTrac Inc., Richardson TX

In article <1hmkvpINNp7m@agate.berkeley.edu> cascio@garnet.berkeley.edu (Jamais Cascio) writes:
>SPOILERS 

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>At the end of CoC2, when Picard shouts that there are only four lights,
>and then stumbles away, Gul Madred has quite an interesting smile on
>his face-- one could almost call it triumphant.  My wife concluded that
>Madred had, just before the final meeting with Picard, installed a
>fifth light.  When Picard sees what are obviously five lights, he 
>cannot accept what his eyes are telling him.
>
>Madred made Picard disconnect with reality, not by having him almost
>admit to five lights, but by having him deny the fifth light!
>
>Madred won!
>
>Of course, this is entirely conjecture, and has nothing to do with
>what TNG _will_ do with the mentally assaulted Picard (ie, nothing).
>
>[and if this idea has been raised elsewhere, my apologies]
>
I think it would have been much more dramatic at the end there to have a
close up of Madred's evil smile and then a slow pull back to reveal the lights
behind him one by one until there were actually five lights showing.  Since
the audience saw the four lights earlier, this would have had all of us
calling Madred a son of a Cardassian...  The writers may not have wanted to
show us a weakness in this way (instead opting for the counselling session
at the end), but I expected to see five lights, myself.


-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Brad Barton - brad@cmptrc.lonestar.org  |  "Light the lamp, not the rat!"  |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: pcp2g@karma.astro.Virginia.EDU (Gilligan)
Subject: SF in Trek (was Re: Saturday Night Review - "CoCII") 
Reply-To: pcp2g@karma.astro.Virginia.EDU (Gilligan)
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 18:59:28 GMT


NO SPOILERS!!!!!!!!!

|> In <1992Dec27.191950.523@rivers> ph9991_manfr@rivers.acc.uwrf.edu writes:
|> >> Yeah, but so what?  Science fiction is just a backdrop, not
|> >> the raison d'etre for the show.

|> >In article <rawdon.725487214@cs.wisc.edu>, rawdon@colby.cs.wisc.edu
(Michael Rawdon) writes:
|> But seriously, if I wanted innovative science fiction from Star Trek,
I'd be
|> even less impressed with TNG than I am.  I wonder if there are ANY SF
or
|> fantasy ideas in either series, or any of the movies, which hadn't
appeared
|> elsewhere (speficially, in SF literature) before they appeared in
Star Trek?

If you want good SF, I suggest you take your TV, sell it, and go to a
used
book store. You WILL NOT find *good* SF on TV, maybe ever. I love Trek,
and I never miss it, but it ain't good science fiction. Some people
said Relics was good SF, but they screwed up what little science they
had in it.

Shows like Alien Nation (which I am not terribly familiar with) may
have
good stories, characterizations, etc., but generally the science sucks.
Good SF has good characterization, stories, scenery, image; but it also
(at least for me) has good science. Trek has never managed to get their
astronomy right, ever. Every time I watch I get the urge to write TPTB
a letter, asking for a job as scientific consultant. 8-)

I always hope for good SF. Maybe B5 will have it, or even (gasp) DS9.
You never know.


--
* Phil Plait                 pcp2g@virginia.edu 
*
* "To escape from our own island, we must each metaphorically
*  kill our own Gilligan..."
From: trw@spl1.spl.loral.com (Tim R Witort)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Conspiracy? CoC I *SPOILERS*
Date: 21 Dec 92 23:57:17 GMT
Organization: Loral Software Productivity Laboratory

It has been suggested that Cpt. Jellico is in cahoots with
the Cardassians and sent Picard, Crusher, & Worf on a 
suicide mission.  That would put an interesting twist on
the transmission he made where he said "our friends seem
to have succeeded one way or another."  Where "friends"
could mean the Cardassians just as much as it could mean
the secret team.  The only problem is the "negotiation"
scene with the Cardassians where Jellico looks surprised
when the Cardassian says he knows of a secret mission 
into Cardasssian space.  That would all have to be an
act for the cahoots theory to hold up...

just a thought,
-- Tim