From: billms@eecs.umich.edu (William Mangione-Smith)
Subject: Re: Michigan RB's Was: Re: Heisman Poll Update
Organization: University of Michigan
	<BILLMS.92Jul27115254@z.eecs.umich.edu>
	<1992Jul28.035347.26298@u.washington.edu>
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 15:40:30 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.035347.26298@u.washington.edu> archmage@milton.u.washington.edu (Michael Bakkemo) writes:

   In article <BILLMS.92Jul27115254@z.eecs.umich.edu> billms@eecs.umich.edu (William Mangione-Smith) writes:

   >Wouldn't this show up in the sack or completion stats?  Completions were very
   >high, ints very low, and sacks were low too.  Sure, it would be nice to have
   >a 6'5" jet back there who is a great passer.  But I don't think Elvis is a
   >water buffalo by any means.

    I think it did show up in the sack and completion stats. Look at the 
   Rose Bowl...I'm not trying to rub you're nose in it, but I do think it
   indicative...I don't think they tore up a QB like that on any of the other
   Pac-10 teams except for Arizona.

Ok, I pulled up the stats that I could find.  Here are the top 12 qbs (I went
to twelve so Billy Joe could be included) based on last seasons qb rating (a
very questionable stat, in my mind, but the best we have if you want a good
single metric for comparision).  First column is the qb (ok, you could have
figured that out yourself, second is the interception percent, and the third
is the rating.  The first table is ordered by qb rating, and the second by
the interception percentage.

Sorted by rating
================
Elvis Grbac             2.19    169
Ty Detmer               2.98    168.5
Jeff Garcia             3.13    160.1
Matt Blundin            0.0     159.6
Troy Kopp               3.56    151.8
Steve Stenstrom         3.55    150.2
Tony Sacca              1.71    149.8
Rick Mirer              4.27    149.2
Shane Matthews          4.99    148.8
Keithen McCant          4.76    146.5
Casey Weldon            2.56    146.3
Billy_Joe Hobert        3.51    146.1

Sorted by int%
==============
Matt Blundin            0.0     159.6
Tony Sacca              1.71    149.8
Elvis Grbac             2.19    169
Casey Weldon            2.56    146.3
Ty Detmer               2.98    168.5
Jeff Garcia             3.13    160.1
Billy_Joe Hobert        3.51    146.1
Steve Stenstrom         3.55    150.2
Troy Kopp               3.56    151.8
Rick Mirer              4.27    149.2
Keithen McCant          4.76    146.5
Shane Matthews          4.99    148.8


What do you know.  I stand corrected.  Elvis did suck with his accuracy.  His
ranking dropped all the way from #1 to #3.

I don't have a national table for stats, but I do know that the Michigan line
gave up a grand total of 12 sacks last year, though I don't know if Elvis
cought them all.

Sorry for some of the sarcasm, but Elvis has been dissed once or twice by
Washington guys who don't seem to have seen him much or know what he has
done.  I'm not saying that you were dissing him here, because all you said
was that you thought he was slow and probably not Heisman caliber.
Personally, I disagree a bit on the first, and agree a bit on the second.  He
could win the Heisman, but I certainly wouldn't put money on it.  I think
there are maybe 3 other guys who have a better chance, but mostly because of
the systems or schools they play for.  I don't think that Elvis towers over
the best, but then I don't see anybody towering over him either.

In any case, he may indeed be a water buffalo.  But he didn't look that bad
to me, and i seem to remember this Moeller quote about him running very well.
And the stats certainly don't seem to indicate that his running and
scrambling abilities have hurt the team at all.

   The problem I think you'll find on the part of DAWG fans, isn't dogmatic
   inflexibilty in the Desmond vs Mario debate, it's that lack of anyone 
   giving Mario his due.

I don't know, I think you are being overly sensative.  At least the guys that
I know were very impressed with Mario when we saw him (since the evil ECMB
kept washington off of national tv completely last year until the RB), and
you certainly can't look at the receiving stats by them selves and come away
with the conclusion that Howard was a ton better than Bailey.  Look on the
bright side: mario is probably going to have a better chance to show what he
can do in the NFL sooner than Desmond. 

Bill
--
-------------------------------
	Bill Mangione-Smith
	billms@eecs.umich.edu