HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Greg Naber <greg@halcyon.com>
Subject: Gifs at HALCYON.COM
Originator: greg@halcyon.com
Reply-To: greg@halcyon.com
Organization: The 23:00 News and Mail Service
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 02:40:04 GMT

I am sorry to report that the files of missing children have been removed 
from HALCYON.COM.
 
The contract Marv Cotton has with the National Center for Missing 
Children requires him to maintain a list of places that the gif filesare 
stored at.
 
With the files being available to the Internet via Halcyon.com, it is 
very difficult to determine where the files are stored. There has been no 
system that has filled out the 'availibility' form for this purpose.
 
The reason he has to keep track of the systems keeping the files on line, 
is that when one child is found, that picture can be removed from 
distribution. 
 
This cannot be accomplished by posting a message to the fidonet echoid of 
missing children, as the 'gating' of the echoid is NOT a full gate, the 
echoid is 'censored' for use via the Internet. This, along with the fact 
that thier is currently no other system reporting the distribution of the 
files, is cause for concern.


Greg
From: erik@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Erik Lode)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 19:14:52 GMT
Subject: Re: Gifs at HALCYON.COM
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: alt.missing-kids

Greg Naber <greg@halcyon.com> writes:

> The reason he has to keep track of the systems keeping the files on line, 
> is that when one child is found, that picture can be removed from 
> distribution. 

  When a child is found, how is that information propagated?  A while ago
I saw some notices on alt.missing-kids, but I haven't seen anything lately.
(I hope that doesn't mean no kids have been found since then.)  Is there
a file from the server I should be requesting periodically?

  It's too bad about the loss of the ftp services.  I was able to get most
of the gifs from the server, but a few of the file collections didn't work.


	Erik Lode		HP MCSY (Measurement Control System Division)
	erik@hpfcrom.hp.com	Phone (303) 229-6903
From: lindae@netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.missing-kids
Subject: Thank You
Date: 31 Aug 92 14:14:18 GMT
Expires: Wed, 30 Sep 92 07:00:00 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)


From: Beverly.Burke@fquest.FidoNet.Org (Beverly Burke)
Date: 26 Aug 92  19:36:00
Message-Id: <Fredgate.715025720@fquest>
Newsgroups: alt.missing-kids
Subject: Searching for Your Missing Child
To: lindae@netcom.com
Status: OR

Lindae, have been reading a few of your messages, and realized how important
your work is....Thanks for having the courage and the strength to protect "our
future generation", the world's most valuable assest is their children...Thank
You, for being there and for caring for our young.

I have never had children, but as a survivor of sexual,physical and emotional
abuse, it means alot to me, to see and hear of people fighting for the rights
of the young....

Do you personally know of any agencies up in here Canada, that do similiar work
such as what you are doing??? I would very much like to get involved as a
volunteer....any info you could send my way, would be very much appreciated.

Keep up the fight lady, you are one in a million!!!!

Thanks  
 
---
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
| The following comments are mine only and not those of             |
| fquest.fidonet.org.  Any flames should be sent to alt.flames as   |
| we don't get that here.  And no, we have no IP address.           |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: DURFLING@AC.GRIN.EDU (Finagle, etc. Durflinger,Edward M)
Newsgroups: alt.missing-kids
Subject: HELP FIND TAMMY ZYWICKI'S KILLER
Date: 4 Sep 1992 16:09:05 -0500
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

        This is an update to the information about Tammy Zywicki that I
recently posted to this network.  The body in Missouri was indeed
identified as being that of Grinnell senior Tammy Zywicki. I post this
information in the hopes that concerned people will continue the effort in
the hopes of bringing Tammy's killer to justice and making our roads a
safer place for both women and men.

        The letter makes references to a poster containing a police drawing
of the truck that Tammy was last seen getting into.  If you would volunteer
to post these drawings in your area, send your address or fax # to me and I
will get you copies of the material.

Thank you;
Ed Durflinger
durfling@ac.grin.edu
_____________________________________________________________________________
						4 September 1992
						Grinnell College


	YOU CAN STILL HELP IN THE SEARCH FOR TAMMY'S KILLER!!!


	Tammy Zywicki, a 21 year old Grinnell College senior, was abducted 
on Interstate 80 in Illinois, near LaSalle, on Sunday afternoon, 23 August.  
Her body was recently found along the side of a road in southwest Missouri, 
stabbed seven times in the chest and once in the right arm.  While the Search 
for Tammy is over, the Grinnell College community is continuing its efforts to 
find the person that is responsible for this horrific crime.

	The enclosed poster was the last one released, before Tammy's body 
was identified.  The truck is a white semi, with diagonal stripes of rustish 
color. 
        This truck has been identified as a vehicle that was parked in front of 
Tammy's car on I-80.  While the driver is NOT a suspect, the police are 
attempting to contact the driver in an attempt to discover what transpired 
on that Sunday afternoon of her disappearance.  If you have any information 
pertaining to the Tammy Zywicki case, or know anything at all concerning the 
truck, please call the Illinois State Police at either of the following numbers:

	1-815-224-1150   or 	1-800-U-HELP-ME 
 

	Please post this poster and keep your eyes and ears open for any 
information pertaining to this case.

			Thank you very much,

			The Grinnell College Community



 
Newsgroups: alt.missing-kids
From: lindae@netcom.com ()
Subject: Another Example of the Effects of Abduction
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 14:11:16 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

From: Beverly.Burke@fquest.FidoNet.Org (Beverly Burke)
Date: 28 Aug 92  09:44:00
Message-Id: <Fredgate.715195090@fquest>
Newsgroups: alt.missing-kids
Subject: Perps..
To: lindae@netcom.com
Status: OR

Hi everyone, just thought I would share a newspaper story from up here in
Vancouver, Canada...I read it with disugust.....

        A father along with his new wife, have kipnapped the mans child....his
ex wife married a convicted child molester, and the judge and family court
granted custody to the real mother and her child molester of a husband....GOOD
LORD!!! What the heck is this world coming too???? The father only managed to
kidnap one of his two children....the child he managed to kidnapp now has to
live his life on the run...no friends, no school, no nothing...just so that his
body wont be violated by a child molester that the courts have ordered his to
live with.....I feel so sad for this child...doesnt anyone realize the long
term affects that child abuse has on a child???? Even living with the fear and
being on the run to me is a form of child abuse....extreme deprevation of the
things so necessary to aid a child in growing up...ie social skills....never
mind the missed education....aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack...just thought I would
share this story, as it brough bile to my throat....  
 
---
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
| The following comments are mine only and not those of             |
| fquest.fidonet.org.  Any flames should be sent to alt.flames as   |
| we don't get that here.  And no, we have no IP address.           |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+

Newsgroups: alt.native
From: Alan McGowen <beaver.cs.washington.edu!gnosys!hpindbu.cup.hp.com!alanm>
Subject: Re: Science and Spirituality
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 17:53:43 GMT

Original-Sender: Alan McGowen <hpindbu.cup.hp.com!alanm>

>
> Original-Sender: Martha Dunham <BROWNVM.bitnet!ST402621>
>
> animals.  My understanding - to bring this back to the discussion at hand - was
> that native americans attributed such depth of character to animals as well
> as to themselves.  After reading Peshewegunzh's posts, I am less sure.
> It seems that he is saying that equating man with beasts is a Bad Thing.
> This may be a semantic question - is there any real difference between
> seeing ourselves as no better than the beasts (to paraphrase Peshewegunzh)
> and seeing beasts as no less than ourselves?  Yet the question is interesting
> because of where it can lead us.  Does respect for all lives require
> acknowledging spiritual being in those around us?  Or is our place in nature
> really up on a spiritual pinnacle? It seems to me the natural
> consequence of believing ourselves to be the center of the universe is
> the ultimate destruction of our environment - as we are seeing today.
> Thus seeing animals as similar, or in other words related to us should at
> least make it easier for us to live together with them.
>
> I would like to hear what others have to say.
>
> Cheers,
> Martha
> ST402621@brownvm.bitnet.edu
>

I would agree with all of the above, except the idea that Peshewegunzh's posts
must be the Oracle of all native American sprituality, rather than one
individual's point of view.

If "spiritual being" is partly experiential capacity than we certainly share
it with other vertebrates (at least). If it is partly the capacity to carry
out life processes that are vital to the continuance of all life, then we
possess it to a lesser degree than plants and insects. Perhaps we need a
conception of the spiritual which sees it as composed of a great many things,
some of which (but only some) are the qualities which have made us ecological
dominants. Notions of spirituality which focus only on those qualities are,
as Martha suggests, a major cause of the biotic holocaust we are perpetrating
on the Earth today. Still, it is useless to pretend that humans could ever
conceive of themselves entirely as just one species among 30 million. What
we need is a spirituality which can harmonize humans' "superior power"
with the continuation of all of the Earths' life. And we need it very badly.

------------
Alan McGowen


Newsgroups: alt.native
From: gst@gnosys.svle.ma.us (Gary S. Trujillo)
Newsgroups: alt.native
Subject: no news yet on Peshe
Date: 30 Aug 92 20:46:23 GMT

Original-Sender: gst@gnosys.svle.ma.us (Gary S. Trujillo)

Dear NATCHAT Readers,

I just wanted everyone to know that neither Mary Mihalyi nor I have been
able to learn how Peshewegunzh has fared in the aftermath of the hurricane.
Both Mary and I have tried calling his phone number in Miami, but have not
been able to get an answer.  I have also begun receiving "bounces" of mail
sent to him since the 21st (when Hurricane Andrew struck the area) via the
mailing list from the University of Miami, which is his connection point
to the network.

Perhaps it's only a matter of Peshe's phone service having been interrupted
by the storm.  I'm sure we all hope he and his family are well, and that we
will hear from him soon.  Mary or I will let you know as soon as we get any
news.

Gary

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Following is a bulletin on what you can do to help victims of the disaster.

From: dfuller@nyx.cs.du.edu (Desi Fuller)
Newsgroups: alt.hurricane.andrew
Subject: American Red Cross FAQ
Date: 28 Aug 92 15:53:34 GMT
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix @ U. of Denver Math/CS dept.

Some people on INTERNET have asked me how they can contribute to the
American Red Cross inconjuction with Hurricane Andrew.  I have enclosed
a memo from my superiors on what to do.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Since Hurricane Andrew slammed into the Florida coast Monday, the Red Cross
has been inundated with calls from individuals and corporations seeking
information about how they can make a contribution.  If you receive one of
these calls, please follow these simple guidelines in order to give them
information on where to mail their gift, or to direct the caller to the
financial development area.

If a person would like to know where to send a contribution, please give them
this information:

     1.   Make the check out to American Red Cross Disaster Relief Fund.
          (If the caller would like to make their check out another way,
           please transfer them to 202-639-3409.)

     2.   Send the check to:

          American Red Cross, P.O. Box 37243, Washington, DC 20013


If a person would like to make a credit card contribution, have them call:

          1-800-842-2200 (for English speaking people)

          1-800-257-7575 (for Spanish speaking people)


If the caller has any other fund-raising questions, please transfer them to
the following phone number so that a trained staff member can answer their
questions:

          202-639-3409
--
Desmond S. Fuller - Network Administrator       American Red Cross
                                                Jerome H. Holland Laboratory
Office - (301) 738-0898 or -0894                15601 Crabbs Branch Way
FAX    - (301) 738-0794                         Rockville, MD  20855
From: moisan@cicb.fr (Herve Moisan -  stagiaire CICB)
Newsgroups: alt.native
Subject: is american people still racist ?
Date: 31 Aug 92 08:03:06 GMT
Organization: CICB, Universite' de Rennes I, FR

Keywords: 


As a matter of fact, i notice in every american film about native
americans ("dance with wolves" (is it the title in english ?)
and the last of mohicans), the native "hero" is always a white hero
who became indian and never a true native people.

in "dance with wolves", the hero falls in love with a native woman ....
but she was a white brought up by sioux, 
in  "the last of mohicans", the hero was brought up by a mohican
chief...

strange, isn't it ?

PS  is the term "indian" pejorative in US ?






-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Herve Moisan	CICB Campus de Beaulieu 	35042 Rennes Cedex   France
Phone:  99 36 71 38	
E-mail: moisan@cicb.fr	
Newsgroups: alt.native
From: Martha Dunham <beaver.cs.washington.edu!gnosys!tamvm1.tamu.edu!BROWNVM.bitnet!ST402621>
Subject: Re: Science and Spirituality
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 20:46:47 GMT

Original-Sender: Martha Dunham <BROWNVM.bitnet!ST402621>

I have been following the discussion of science vs. western religion vs.
native american religion with great interest (note that this is _not_ in
my view a dichotomy).  I speak only for myself in what follows.

While I believe there are scientists who hold the "religious" belief that all
natural events can be explained by science, that does not mean that all
scientists do so, by any means.  As each scientist delves deeper into her
own field, she inevitably discovers things that cannot be immediately
explained.  She then must decide whether these things can _ever_ be
explained, or if perhaps they are evidence of spirituality.  This decision
is made differently by each scientist, depending on her system of belief.
Science can be a partial system of belief, or a total system.  I may believe
that someone more intelligent than I might be able to explain an event, or that
I could explain the event if I had 10 years to study it, or that the event
is in some sense unexplainable.  (Note that I am defining spirituality as
the unexplainable - spiritual things have no cause, they just are).

In my field of animal behavior, I come across many unexplainable events.  To
some extent, I can point my finger at the sheer complexity of an animal's life.
On the other hand, it is equally plausible (in a scientific context and given
our current level of ignorance) that I am seeing evidence of spirituality in
animals.  My understanding - to bring this back to the discussion at hand - was
that native americans attributed such depth of character to animals as well
as to themselves.  After reading Peshewegunzh's posts, I am less sure.
It seems that he is saying that equating man with beasts is a Bad Thing.
This may be a semantic question - is there any real difference between
seeing ourselves as no better than the beasts (to paraphrase Peshewegunzh)
and seeing beasts as no less than ourselves?  Yet the question is interesting
because of where it can lead us.  Does respect for all lives require
acknowledging spiritual being in those around us?  Or is our place in nature
really up on a spiritual pinnacle? It seems to me the natural
consequence of believing ourselves to be the center of the universe is
the ultimate destruction of our environment - as we are seeing today.
Thus seeing animals as similar, or in other words related to us should at
least make it easier for us to live together with them.

I would like to hear what others have to say.

Cheers,
Martha
ST402621@brownvm.bitnet.edu


Newsgroups: alt.native
From: Alan McGowen <beaver.cs.washington.edu!gnosys!hpindbu.cup.hp.com!alanm>
Subject: Re: Truth is Academic?
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 20:19:59 GMT

Original-Sender: Alan McGowen <hpindbu.cup.hp.com!alanm>

> I would say rather, that at the end of the twentieth century, practically
> speaking, the dominant worldview is essentially marxist - that is, reductionist
> materialism. That could include "rational" capitalism, which is pretty
> well synonymous with state capitalism. It may seem that there are some
> "rich" people who are independent, or some corporations, but in
> actuality, they act only within and towards the ends of the state of which
> they are part. There is, because of enormous regulation and social pressure,
> very little "independent" wealth - in other words, wealth that could act
> contrary to statism or its goals. The financial system and its assets
> tend to move people according to its own ends, not theirs. Anyone who
> has ever acquired wealth and been chagrined to discover there is no
> real independence derived from it will understand what I mean. However,
> this offers encouragement for the dispossessed, too, because it shows
> how illusory is the power and security of wealth. Real power lies
> somewhere else, and it is free for the asking, should one really want
> an answer.
>
> Peshewegunzh

Peshe seems to be saying the following things:

1) Wealth has no power independent of the goals of states.
[Ever heard of a multinational corporation?]

2) Wealth is enormously (excessively?) regulated.
[Ever heard of a Swiss bank account?]

3) Wealth isn't really good for you, and doesn't lead to power.
[I guess that's why Perot gave up?]

4) Don't think about wealth -- think about something else.
[Leave thinking about wealth to the wealthy.]


Actually the giveaway in the above is the right-wing code word "statism".
That word is used to cover such concepts as the public interest,
civic responsibility, etc. "Statism". One little word to cover the union
of interests which is the real threat to the power of wealth. Prevent
that union of interests at all costs. Practice the politics of division,
"us" vs "them", "indigenous" vs "European", "godless materialist
scientists" vs the "truly spiritual."

Anything to keep us occupied and our eyes off the real concentrations
of power.

How much social justice for indigeneous people -- for any people --
can we really expect to flow from this?

-------------
Alan McGowen
Newsgroups: alt.native
From: beaver.cs.washington.edu!gnosys!nighthawk.clearpoint.com!towfiq (Mark Towfiq)
Subject: Re: Science and Spirituality
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 19:42:00 GMT

Original-Sender: nighthawk.clearpoint.com!towfiq (Mark Towfiq)

>>>>> On Sun, 30 Aug 1992 16:46:47 EDT, Martha Dunham
>>>>> <BROWNVM.bitnet!ST402621> said:

md> I have been following the discussion of science vs. western
md> religion vs. native american religion with great interest (note
md> that this is _not_ in my view a dichotomy).

  I agree with Martha that religion and science are not a dichotomy;
in fact, for the well-being of the world, their essential harmony must
be recognized.  `Abdu'l-Baha, the son of Baha'u'llah, the founder of
the Baha'i Faith, of which I am a member (along with members of many
indigenous people around the world), said 80 years ago:

    Religion and science are the two wings upon which man's
    intelligence can soar into the heights, with which the human soul
    can progress.  It is not possible to fly with one wing alone!
    Should a man try to fly with the wing of religion alone he would
    quickly fall into the quagmire of superstition, whilst on the
    other hand, with the wing of science alone he would also make no
    progress, but fall into the despairing slough of materialism.

  Interestingly enough, Dr. Martin Luther King said:

    Science investigates; religion interprets.  Science gives man
    knowledge which is power; religion gives man wisdom which is
    control.  Science deals mainly with facts; religion deals mainly
    with values.  The two are not rivals.  They are complementary.
    Science keeps religion from sinking into the valley of crippling
    irrationalism and paralyzing obscurantism.  Religion prevents
    science from falling into the marsh of obsolete materialism and
    moral nihilism.
--
Mark Towfiq, towfiq@Microdyne.COM			      H:+1 617 488 2818

For too much of its history and in so many places the human race has squandered
its energy and resources in futile efforts to prove the unprovable: that one
portion of itself, because of separation by geography, a difference in skin
color, or of the diversity of cultural expression, is intrinsically distinct
from another portion.  The ignorance and prejudice on which such efforts were
founded have led to endless conflicts in the name of the sanctity of tribe,
race, class, nation, and religion.
		-- "The Vision of Race Unity", The National Spiritual
		   Assembly of the Baha'is of the United States

[Please, let's try to keep this discussion focussed on Native issues and
not use NatChat as a forum for general religious discussion--which is a
worthwhile goal in itself, but belongs on another channel.--mkk]
Newsgroups: alt.native
From: Alan McGowen <beaver.cs.washington.edu!gnosys!hpindbu.cup.hp.com!alanm>
Subject: Re: Environment and native issues
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1992 21:17:14 GMT

Original-Sender: Alan McGowen <hpindbu.cup.hp.com!alanm>

>
> Original-Sender: Peshewegunzh <mthvax.cs.miami.edu!mamia!peshe>
>
> Too, it should be realized that Christianity is a very strong force
> in most Indian communities, far more so than among Europeans now -
> especially, among European academics. And it is an indigenous
> movement, and has been for several centuries. I think perhaps that
> it might be time for European America to relearn the particular
> spiritual values that might be shared from Indians, with our unique
> experiences. Perhaps this message was given to us for safekeeping
> for when the Europeans' children would forget what it really meant.
>
>

I think that calling Christianity an "indigenous movement" is nearly a
contradition in terms. Fortunately, not all native Americans have been
Christianized, though this European movement has converted most. The
manner of the original conversion was rarely highly volunatary.

I really do not believe that a resurgance of Christianity is either
possible or desirable in western people today; insofar as it happens,
it is a reactionary developement among the sort of people who are
sympathetic to the David Dukes of the world.

On the contrary it is from the truly indigenous, nature-repecting religions
that the west is more likely to gain revitalization of its spiritual values.
Europe may have had similar values once, long ago, but they were obliterated
by Christianity and by even earlier Bronze-Age conquest-oriented religions.

------------
Alan McGowen