HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jsb16@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Jennifer S Broekman)
Subject: Re: Those Wacky Cross-Gender Impressing Dragons
Reply-To: jsb16@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Jennifer S Broekman)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 17:35:29 GMT

In article <1h7fodINNh9s@gap.caltech.edu> 
morpheus@cco.caltech.edu (Kynn Bartlett) writes:
>Monkey wrench?  Naw.  PernMU*s don't really care that much about sticking
>to theme.  :)  (Yes, you drooling MustBeInTheme Fanatics--there's nothing
>in the books, after Mirrim or before it, to suggest that Path is anything
>other than a one-time exception to the rule.  *grin*  And certainly ab-
>solutely nothing to support females riding blues and browns.)

True enough. Of course, women riding fighting dragons isn't the only way in
which the MU*'s don't follow the novels (or even the DLG) perfectly. For
example, when did Weyrs acquire Stewards? Certainly Moreta's Fort doesn't
have one.

If someone were to start a strictly canon MU* set in say, the 5th Pass, I'd
play there. Of course, I'm one of those icky, yucky people who doesn't see
anything wrong with playing characters whose gender/orientation is different
from my own RL, so only allowing male characters to be fighting riders wouldn't
prevent me from playing a 'rider.

>(I love doing stuff like this.  Yes, I kick beehives, too.)

The real questions is: Do you kick pigeons?

-Doriana/Pandat

   Only Boys Accepting Feminism Get Kissed Meaningfully  -- Geoff Marcy
The only unnatural sexual act is that which you cannot perform. - Alfred Kinsey
		jenneke is: jsb16@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: morpheus@cco.caltech.edu (Kynn Bartlett)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
Subject: Re: So, is it over?
Date: 22 Dec 1992 16:23:34 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: globie.caltech.edu

In article <JSC.92Dec21013551@monolith.mit.edu> jsc@monolith.mit.edu (Jin S Choi) writes:
>Another thing, just what pass is it? I only ask because the books detail
>the Ninth Pass, but some of the MUSHes are set in the Tenth Pass. Do
>they incorporate all the new Aivas-introduced technology?

PernMUSH was set in 10th pass before ATWOP was ever published; SouCon MUSH
was set concurrent with PernMUSH (NorthCon).  When All the Weyrs came out,
there was a decision to basically ignore the end of Renegades and entire
storyline of ATWOP -- since following it would totally destroy the world
that had been set up on the MUSH, which strictly followed the pre-Aivas
Pern of the earlier novels.  ATWOP is deemed a valid source, though, for
non-Aivas events/information, such as the holder conclave.

I believe that this practice is followed on the other 'old' MU*s which
originally (pre-ATWOP) had set themselves post-ninth-pass, such as
Dragonsfire (originally MicroMUS[H|E]'s "Pernth" section, if I recall).

Later MU*'s, founded after the publication of ATWOP, have either (a) set
themselves in <n>th pass, where, n < 9 (such as DragonsDawn MUSH, which
is second pass, and a rumored 'RedStar MUSH' which might be fourth? pass)
or (b) tried to incorporate the Aivas-introduced technology/social
changes into their Pern (the only one of this sort which I know of fell
victim to Joarm's loss of access a while ago, and I'm not sure if it's
up or not presently).

     ___________                                             ___________
     |         |             M A L A C H I T E               |         |
     |   '"'   |                                             |   '"'   |
     |  '"""'  |                 Brum Hold                   |  '"""'  |
     |  """""  |                                             |  """""  |
      \'"""""'/           morpheus@cco.caltech.edu            \'"""""'/
       \_____/   "Yo he yo!"                 "Rice is Nice!"   \_____/
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: scarrobi@shearson.com (Steve Carrobis)
Subject: Re: Gender bias in dragonriders (WAS honori
Reply-To: scarrobi@shearson.com
Organization: Lehman Brothers, Inc.
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 13:48:18 GMT

not true. Kitti's chinese traditions influenced her work greatly when engineering
the dragons. it says so in the book. there's the queen and there are the workers.
i suggest re-reading Dragonsdawn.

---
Steve C. 

 ==> A wise man once told me - There ARE NO Wise Men !
                             - Just fools who think they are.
---------------------------------------------------------------		
 I understand you need someone to do work.
 I don't do work, but, I know this guy who does.
    -Vladimir Taltos
---------------------------------------------------------------

   	


Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: kogoma@triton.unm.edu (Taki Kogoma)
Subject: SF Book Club offering: _Rescue Run_
Date: Sun, 03 Jan 93 01:32:10 GMT
Organization: Nit-Pickers for a Better Tomorow Afternoon

It would seem that the long-awaited Pern anthology has not yet been
published.  The Science Fiction Book Club is offering a volume
entitled _Rescue Run_, but closer inspection shows that the book is
merely a hardbound copy of the original _Analog_ novella.  Wildside
Press is referred to as a publisher.

BTW, the cover art is apparantly not by Michael Whelan.

(Time to update the entry in the intro article...)
-- 
Capt. Gym Z. Quirk  (Known to some as Taki Kogoma)  kogoma@triton.unm.edu
 I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to
                          what I have now...
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: jbh@feenix.metronet.com (Justin B Harvey)
Subject: Whereis Pern MUSH?
Organization: Texas Metronet Communications Services, Dallas TX
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 03:24:53 GMT

What is the current address and status of Pern MUSH?
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: msjle@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Joi L. Ellis)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
Subject: Re: honourifics
Date: 24 Dec 92 02:25:12 GMT
Organization: Educational Computing Network

David.Berriman@anu.edu.au (Cyalodin) writes:

>IMO, honourifics represent a distinguished title - in this case it
>denotes the rider of a fighting Dragon.  It is used so that a person's
>name instantly identifies them with their exulted position (remember
>that Dragon riders often have large egos - and this is often justified).

In the Dragon Lovers Guide to Pern there is a statement that
says something to the effect that dragon rider's names are shortened to
make them faster to yell when fighting thread.  No honor seemed to be
originally intended by it, although it certainly grew to be a mark of status.

The original dragon riders certainly didn't seem to have overblown egos,
and I think Sorka and Conrahan (?) would have laughed themselves silly
at the suggestion they exalt themselves in such a fashion.  I can easily
imagine them wanting to do everything possible to make flying threadfall
less hazardous.


Happy Holidays!

-- 
Joi Ellis                      msjle@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu
Student Residential Programs   Western Illinois University
From: David.Berriman@anu.edu.au (Cyalodin)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
Subject: Re: male fertility in Between
Date: 22 Dec 1992 23:49:49 GMT
Organization: The Australian National University
NNTP-Posting-Host: 130.56.5.37

In article <102802@netnews.upenn.edu> lwl@disco.seas.upenn.edu
(Lydia Leong) writes:

>One would think that all that time spent in absolute cold would have
>some effect on the men's fertility, but apparently not.

Actually, cold increases sperm production, so Between may have some
positive effects on male fertility.

Although "absolute cold" sounds like it might render a brass monkey
incomplete (or should that be 'a bronze dragon') *grin*

MERRY CHRISTMAS

---------------------------------------------------------------------
         Fantasy murmurs in the beat of a Dragon's wing ...

   _/_/  _/  _/   _/      _/       _/_/    _/_/_/   _/_/_/  _/    _/
 _/       _/_/   _/_/     _/     _/    _/  _/    _/   _/    _/_/  _/
 _/        _/   _/  _/    _/     _/    _/  _/    _/   _/    _/ _/ _/
 _/        _/  _/_/_/_/   _/     _/    _/  _/    _/   _/    _/  _/_/
   _/_/    _/ _/      _/  _/_/_/   _/_/    _/_/_/   _/_/_/  _/    _/

        ... it is the voice that frees the mind to imagine !
=====================================================================
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: jbh@feenix.metronet.com (Justin B Harvey)
Subject: Pern MUSH
Organization: Texas Metronet Communications Services, Dallas TX
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 03:27:13 GMT

What is the current address and status of Pern MUSH?
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: jmorrill@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John M Morrill)
Subject: Re: Gender bias in dragonriders (WAS honorifics, MU*s, bronze/gold)
Keywords: bronze/gold pairings
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 17:43:39 GMT

In article <alix.725013807@pv663d.vincent.iastate.edu> alix@iastate.edu (L.A. M
elloy) writes:
>
>When the original gold riders first realized that their queens couldn't chew
>firestone, Sorka explodes at Sean, asking him something to the effect that did
>he know whether Kitti had introduced gender-biased DNA into the dragons.  I
>clearly recall that the reason that those riders came up with is that Kitti
>DID do exactly that, because of her "traditional" standards (I'm assuming
>that that meant her Japanese-women-stay-at-home-while-men-go-out-and-fight,
>besides the fact that she is one of the top geneticists in the field).

There was no real evidence the Kitti in fact programmed queens not to be
able to chew firestone because of her value system. The riders 'guessed' at
the reason why queens could not chew firestone, using their own prejudices
to come to a conclusion. I give Kitti a lot more credit. I assume that she
was a professional, and would not go out of her way to make a system (dragons)
more complicated then it need be to suit her personal bias. She would know
that for every additional change she made, she introducted the chance for
error.

Consider the green dragons. If they chew firestone they become sterile.
I do not believe that this was something Kitti programmed.
Kitti never created a green dragon, they came about from the mating of bronze
and gold dragons. It is unlikely that she programmed the dragons so that when
they had a green, it would become sterile if it chewed firestone.

What fits very well here is that the inablity of golds to chew firestone
is a work around to a problem. Firestone contains chemicals. The ability of an
organism to tolerate a chemical does not necessary increase proportionally to
the size of the organism. The female reproduction system is far more
complicated the male reproduction system. Any slight chemical imbalance in
the female system, and the system fails. So while firelizards can chew a
small bit of firestone and still reproduce, female dragons will become sterile
if they chew a proportionally larger amount of firestone.

The details of the reproductive system is not something Kitti would want to
mess with, too much chance for error. So instead of increasing a female
dragon's tolerance for firestone, she simply altered the 'other stomach'.
Probably, she removed the ability of the gold dragon to create the chemical
dragons produce that mixed with firestone create flame.
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Strange problems call for strange solutions.
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: tyrie@lynx.cs.washington.edu (Tyrie Grubic)
Subject: Re: (MUSH) Those Wacky Cross-Gender Impressing Dragons
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering Dept., Univ. of Washington, Seattle
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 92 16:55:22 GMT

I am female, I ride a brown, and I took the honorific (on DragonsFire).

The honorific was initially developed to be easier to yell while fighting
thread.  Even if Mirrim's name wasn't contracted, if you're yelling something
quickly, I assume her name was often slurred to M'rrim during flight, even
if it was Mirrim on the ground.  Thus to me, as time goes on, it seems likely
that female riders of fighting dragons would have adopted the honorific.

--T'lilah, rider of Brown Ogreth of DragonsFire MUS
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: chris@keris.demon.co.uk (Chris Croughton)
From: jsbell@acs.ucalgary.ca (Joshua Bell)
Subject: Re: (MUSH) Those Wacky Cross-Gender Impressing Dragons
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 92 21:14:41 GMT
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta

In article <C04wsJ.6zy@andy.bgsu.edu> jkiley@andy.bgsu.edu (James H. Kiley) writes:
>
>	...it occurs to me, actually, that the contractions in names as they're
>set up is frankly wrong.  Case in point:  Cormic impresses bronze Lironth
>and becomes C'mic.  But try shouting the name 'Cormic' sometime.  What comes 
>out, if you're pronouncing it like I do :), is CORmic.  Corm'c or the like
>would be the natural contraction.  Mirrim-->MIRrim-->Mir'm, at least if you
>pronounce it like I do. 

So the Pernese don't pronounce things the way you do: feLAR ->
F'lar, faNOR -> F'nor, corMIC -> C'mic, mirRIM -> M'rrim,
feLESsan -> F'lessan. Any brits out there wanna confirm if this
pronounciation of names is typical for those across the pond?

Joshua
|         A shimmering net undulating like an infinite borealis.             |
|                                                  - Chapterhouse: Dune      |
|                                                                            |
| jsbell@acs.ucalgary.ca  Academic Computing Services, University of Calgary |



Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: alix@iastate.edu (L.A. Melloy)
Subject: Gender bias in dragonriders (WAS honorifics, MU*s, bronze/gold)
Keywords: bronze/gold pairings
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 08:43:27 GMT

This was originally a follow up before a 1200 baud modem and a slow computer
ate it...

I was responding to the discussion I read about why females were ALWAYS paired
with golds and not to any of the other colors, except Mirrim and green Path
in the books.  Many thought were tossed around, most involving social custom,
but some discussing Kitti Ping's work. I did notice something:  most of you
missed the obvious one.

When the original gold riders first realized that their queens couldn't chew
firestone, Sorka explodes at Sean, asking him something to the effect that did
he know whether Kitti had introduced gender-biased DNA into the dragons.  I
clearly recall that the reason that those riders came up with is that Kitti
DID do exactly that, because of her "traditional" standards (I'm assuming
that that meant her Japanese-women-stay-at-home-while-men-go-out-and-fight,
besides the fact that she is one of the top geneticists in the field).

My opinion is that Kitti DID bioengineer the dragons other than gold to
Impress men, since they were the ones that should be fighting, in KITTI'S
opinion.  I think that Path impressed Mirrim because of either a genetic
defect of something that allowed Path to override the code, or because Mirrim
was just so special that _she_ overrode the code, somehow.

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Leigh Ann Melloy  |  "I would like us to come together and build......
alix@iastate.edu  |                a chopstick." - From the movie _Mr._Baseball
===============================================================================
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: scarrobi@shearson.com (Steve Carrobis)
Subject: Re: So, is it over?
Reply-To: scarrobi@shearson.com
Organization: Lehman Brothers, Inc.
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 19:58:32 GMT

In article 7965@oswego.Oswego.EDU, mccall@Oswego.EDU (D. Todd Mccall) writes:
> In article <JSC.92Dec21013551@monolith.mit.edu> jsc@monolith.mit.edu (Jin S Choi) writes:
> >
> >
>  [lots of stuff deleted]
> >Another thing, just what pass is it? I only ask because the books detail
> >the Ninth Pass, but some of the MUSHes are set in the Tenth Pass. Do
> >they incorporate all the new Aivas-introduced technology?
> >
>  Most MU* ignore the existence of ATWoP entirely, effectively AIVAS was 
>  found, but was non-operational. Therefore, none of the Aivas technology
>  was ever introduced. (This applies only to the MU* I'm familiar with
>  ... PernMUSH,SouthCon, and TimeMUSE(Telgar Weyr). On the last I think its
>  true but I could be wrong). I could be over-simplifying...anyone care to
>  correct? 
> 
>    -Jalnar/PernMUSH Smith CraftSecond
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> |D.Todd McCall                  \  The best laid plans of mice and men       |
> |---mccall@oswego.oswego.edu    \                                            |
> |                               \                                            |
> |State University of New York   \  are worth about the same                  |
> |                               \                                            |
> |College at Oswego		\  in the final analysis       		     |
> |____________________________________________________________________________|
> 
>  


see what happens when u time it. you guys are on another time line. tsk tsk.
and there's no timing before u timed to the future. you are stuck.

---
Steve C. 

 ==> A wise man once told me - There ARE NO Wise Men !
                             - Just fools who think they are.
---------------------------------------------------------------		
 I understand you need someone to do work.
 I don't do work, but, I know this guy who does.
    -Vladimir Taltos
---------------------------------------------------------------

   	


Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: alix@iastate.edu (L.A. Melloy)
Subject: Re: So, is it over?
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 09:18:22 GMT

In <JSC.92Dec21013551@monolith.mit.edu> jsc@monolith.mit.edu (Jin S Choi) writes:


>After much delay, I finally got a hold of ATWOP and read it in one
>sitting. Sigh. Took me back to the time I was first introduced to pern
>and finished the first trilogy in two days. Anyway, I was just
>wondering, is that all? Is it over? Will there be another? I was
>thinking through most of it that it would be the last book. And the end
>does seem final, or it could be.  But then, there seems a lot the author
>could do with the story from this point. But would she want to? So, does
>anyone know? Sorry if this question has been answered before, I'm not a
>frequent reader of a.f.p.

>Anyway, a few thoughts. Dragonriders are always so careful to avoid
>paradox. Oops, spoiler warning
>


















>There. What would have happened if, when Jancis was scribbling her note
>to Jaxom as the dragons were going crazy on the bridge, she saw him
>arrive, said, Oh, good, and just threw away her note? Or when Aivas
>informed Jaxom that there was evidence that two explosions had already
>occured on the Red Planet, what would have happened if Jaxom just said,
>cool, that means I won't have to go since it's already been done? Just
>once, don't you think *some* dragonrider would let curiosity get the
>better of him and try to shake his own hand, or go visit Admiral Benden?

>Another thing, just what pass is it? I only ask because the books detail
>the Ninth Pass, but some of the MUSHes are set in the Tenth Pass. Do
>they incorporate all the new Aivas-introduced technology?

>Finally, how old is Jaxom? Young enough to expect to be alive in 50
>years, I expect.

If I get my math correct, I think he was born three years before the 9th pass,
making him 23 or 24 at the end of ATWOP.

My somewhat follow up question to all the questions/talk about a new Pern
book is:  WHAT WILL IT BE ABOUT?  This is really weird, because I just finished
ATWOP yesterday, and was thinking about the next Pern book.  The biggest 
question left unfinished for me is what are all the dragonriders going to do
after this pass is over.  The other time I'd like to see more about would
be an immediate (or close to it) sequel of "Dragonsdawn", and how the colonists
got the hierarchy of weyr, hold, and hall established (especially Benden and
Telgar), or about the other hero mentioned in the first book (I always
get "Quest" and "Flight" confused! :-) ) at the same time Moreta is mentioned
(falsely connected with Benden, I might add).

Any other ideas?

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Leigh Ann Melloy  |  "I would like us to come together and build......
alix@iastate.edu  |                a chopstick." - From the movie _Mr._Baseball
===============================================================================
From: shagstr@eis.calstate.edu (Shirley Hagstrom)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
Subject: Mushy stuff...
Date: 25 Dec 92 11:29:04 GMT
Organization: Calif State Univ/Electronic Information Services


 
    I find it very amusing to think that people running PernMush would
be afraid of being sued over certain OOC/differant/or not mentioned in the 
books or otherwise non-conon (In their opinion) things...

   Why in blazes would Anne McCaffrey or her lawyers waste time and money
to sue a bunch of college students for an online roleplaying game?  Noone
is making any money on it.  It advertises and sells her books with no effort
from her.   Grow up people.  I'm sure A.M. has better things to do than
worry about a game that a bunch of people with little or no lives play.

   If I hear that lame old excuse (Anne is gonna sue us if we do this or 
don't do that)..I'm gonna puke.....

              

                          Jaz


  Flames cheerfully eatten.....Wheres the katsup?
Newsgroups: alt.fan.james-bond
From: Chuck.Lavazzi@launchpad.unc.edu (Chuck Lavazzi)
Subject: Re: New movie... more...
Organization: University of North Carolina Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 15:18:11 GMT

In article <1992Dec23.145531.15390@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> vlsi@neptune.ctr.columbia.edu (VLSI (Gary Dare)) writes:
>
>
>I just read it this morning in NY Newsday...
>
>James Bond is back...MGM will release another movie in 1993 with
>Timothy Dalton...
>
>Produced by Cubby Broccoli (a "true" James Bond so;)
>
>No title or plot seems to be ready, but at least, it is starting...
>
	Well, that's never stopped them in the past.  They can just use the
same plot they've been recycling for the last dozen films or so, throw in
some new baddies with silly names, and have at it.  The kids'll love it!
	Of course, he *could* do a decent film version of "Colonel Sun", but
that would be a break with..um...tradition.

Chuck
--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: alt.fan.james-bond
From: hopper@ucunix.san.uc.edu (FreeBird)
Subject: Re: General Comments/Questions
Organization: University of Cincinnati
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 09:16:18 GMT

In article <1992Dec29.233202.733@uoft02.utoledo.edu> dweddin@uoft02.utoledo.edu writes:
>here's a question that always bothered me....
>
>in "On Her Majesty's Secret Service", Blofeldt (i think played by
>Tele Savalis) got his neck broke.  But then in "Diamonds Are Forever"
>he's back as good as new.... how come????
>
>also, he makes another appearance at the grave sight of Tracy Bond in
>I think "Moonraker" (not sure if that's the movie)...but anyways, he's
>got a broken neck again.
>
>what's the deal????

 Remember, that it's the Blofeld DYNASTY.  Just like Kings...kill one,
and his successor comes and takes his place.

>
>also, i vote that Moonraker is by far the worst bond movie and that
>the Roger Moore movies were the ones that ruined the movie series.
 
 Nope...On Her Majesty's..' is...Lazenby couldn't act if his Bentley
depended on it.  And, Thunderball was *so* much better than it's remake,
Never Say Never Again.

>
>
>don wedding


-- 
_____________________________________________________________________
|  David Ian Hopper  * hopper@ucunix.san.uc.edu * o/~ FreeBird! o/~ | 
|  Found on Quartz BBS, Sunset BBS, Prism Hotel, and QuartzParadise | 
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+