HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 09:37:18 EST
From: <TLT101@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc,rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.student
Subject: Re: Pilotage: Food for thought
 <1993Jan20.222244.3785@henson.cc.wwu.edu>

I have to agree with filing a flight plan as being an extremely good idea.
For those of you not from around PA there is currently a missing aircraft
somewhere between Lancaster and Latrobe, no flight plan was filed, I know
the weather was really bad the day the plane disappeared (last Friday).
Was up flying this week and told to listen for an ELT and keep an eye out.
In my area we have snow on the ground, a white airplane on snow is about
impossible to find.  The last 2 days have been excellent weather but they
haven't spotted the plane yet.  I think its a Cherokee Six they are looking
for, not sure of tail number.

Just thought I'd throw that in as a reminder to file a plan.



-----------------------------------
Tim Thompson  TLT101@PSUVM.PSU.EDU
           DoD#0768
'83 Yamaha Maxim 400
Xref: sparky rec.aviation.misc:1481 rec.aviation.homebuilt:583
From: spenny@sw.stratus.com (Steve Pennypacker)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc,rec.aviation.homebuilt
Subject: Re: Fly Baby Damaged in Windstorm
Date: 25 Jan 1993 20:20:55 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: wiley.ts.stratus.com

In article <C18t1K.Gxw@plato.ds.boeing.com>, prang@plato.ds.boeing.com (Ron Wanttaja) writes:
> First Margaret's Archer, then Kermit Weeks' collection, and now the
> original Fly Baby, N500F.

...

> It had a midair with a workbench.

Ouch.  I'm sorry to hear about this.  But just like smaller-scale model
airplanes ( ;-> ), if there are pieces left that are big enough to carry, 
then it can be rebuilt.  And I'm sure it will be.  I hope there's minimal
fuselage damage.  

Talk about major damage... this will cost you more than the last dozen
annuals!


> 
>                                 | "Ouch!"
>                                _|_/
>                  	      /(_)\                       
>                       -------:==^==:-------      
>                            [[|  o  |]]             
>                           ___\_____/__________-----------------
>                 _______---_  /     \  _
>  _____----------         T T/_______\T T      Ron Wanttaja 
> 			 | |         | |      prang@plato.ds.boeing.com
> 			 """         """     

Too bad these 'drawings' never make it into KITPLANES.

-- 
     Steve Pennypacker		     PP-ASEL

     spenny@wiley.ts.stratus.com     Stephen_Pennypacker@vos.stratus.com
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
From: serkowtk@ss1.af.mil (Tom K. Serkowski)
Subject: Re: Triangles in the Desert
Reply-To: $HOME@ss2.sews.wpafb.af.mil
Organization: U.S. Air Force
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 19:38:49 GMT

In article <1k1kjpINN1rc@transfer.stratus.com>, spenny@sw.stratus.com (Steve Pennypacker) writes:
|> About an hour into our cattle-class flight out of San Diego, headed towards
|> a stop in Houston, I pressed my nose into the window and saw a sight on the
|> ...
|> What I saw was a large equilateral triangle.  At first I thought it was an
|> oddly shaped airport.  I guessed that the sides were about 3 - 4,000 feet 
|> long.  But none of it was paved, I could see no roads leading up to it, and
|> no buildings or taxiways.  I'm not sure I would have seen much at 39,000 feet 
|> anyway.  A few minutes later, I saw one or two more of these triangles, but I 
|> don't know if there would have been many more of them because we were over an 
|> undercast most of the time.
|> 
|> So, what are they?  Irrigation ditches?  Seems like a wierd shape, and in
|> a wierd location out in the middle of nowhere.  If nobody knows, I'll have
|> to call "In Search Of" and go on TV saying I've found alien landing sites :-)
|> -- 

Sounds like you were somewhere over southern Arizona.  That area has
a number of WWII training fields that are now mostly abandoned.
Some are triangles, others are ~1 mi. square.  I believe most were
paved, but over the years, its worn away.

Hope this helps...
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc,rec.travel.air
From: rdd@cactus.org (Robert Dorsett)
Subject: Re: United Airlines: Infos and slides sought!
Keywords: United
Organization: Capital Area Central Texas UNIX Society, Austin, Tx
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 13:52:07 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.085224.24768@peck.com> geoff@peck.com (Geoff Peck) writes:
>In article <1jju0uEINNi5o@uni-erlangen.de>
>almeierh@cip.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Axel Meierhoefer) writes:
>> I just have read the articles about United's new color scheme
>> in 'sci.aeronautics.airliners'.
>
>And it is indeed in that newsgroup which this, and Axel's other thread,
>belong.  Please keep them there.

The sci.aeronautics charter:

    A moderated discussion group on airliner technology: the design,
    construction, performance, human factors, operation, and histories of
    transport-category aircraft.

I think it would be pushing it to say that livery comes under "history,"
and, unless one is really arguing that the paint has some *technical* 
merit, I'd suggest that this, along with threads such as:
	seating
	cabin amenities
	route structure
	schedules
	in-flight magazines
	rebates
	frequent flyer plans
        cutlery
        china
        playing cards
and, yes,
	livery (color schemes)

should go to rec.travel.air.  Despite the fact that the moderator, in the
excitement of the situation, has indeed, allowed several livery posts.
	


Have a nice day.


---
Robert Dorsett
rdd@cactus.org
...cs.utexas.edu!cactus.org!rdd
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
From: jav@crash.cts.com (Javier Henderson)
Subject: Fishy PIREP
Organization: CTS Network Services (crash, ctsnet), El Cajon, CA
Date: 26 Jan 93 17:29:56 PST

I just got my DUAT wx briefing for a flight later today, and the following
PIREP showed up:

Camarillo CA [CMA]: pilot report at Camarillo CA (CMA VOR) at 4:21 PST
    (0021Z), at 4,500 feet a Piper Aircraft Coorp. Cherokee Six, Lance,
    reported temperature 16C, smooth turbulence ... MACKERAL sky
                                                    ^^^^^^^^

That's exactly how DUAT translated the briefing. So...what exactly is a
Mackeral sky? And should I carry a fishnet along?

(I think the fish is spelled Mackarel though...si?)
                

--
Javier Henderson
jav@crash.cts.com
From: spenny@sw.stratus.com (Steve Pennypacker)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
Subject: Triangles in the Desert
Date: 25 Jan 1993 21:03:53 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: wiley.ts.stratus.com

While I've been sitting here daydreaming about my west-coast trip, another
question came up...

About an hour into our cattle-class flight out of San Diego, headed towards
a stop in Houston, I pressed my nose into the window and saw a sight on the
ground in the desert that I can't identify.  I thought the net might be able 
to help.

What I saw was a large equilateral triangle.  At first I thought it was an
oddly shaped airport.  I guessed that the sides were about 3 - 4,000 feet 
long.  But none of it was paved, I could see no roads leading up to it, and
no buildings or taxiways.  I'm not sure I would have seen much at 39,000 feet 
anyway.  A few minutes later, I saw one or two more of these triangles, but I 
don't know if there would have been many more of them because we were over an 
undercast most of the time.

So, what are they?  Irrigation ditches?  Seems like a wierd shape, and in
a wierd location out in the middle of nowhere.  If nobody knows, I'll have
to call "In Search Of" and go on TV saying I've found alien landing sites :-)
-- 
     Steve Pennypacker		     PP-ASEL

     spenny@wiley.ts.stratus.com     Stephen_Pennypacker@vos.stratus.com
From: dst+@cs.cmu.edu (Dave Touretzky)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
Subject: why IFR = "real pilot"
Date: 23 Jan 93 02:35:44 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.C1ACJL.46I.2
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon


Most laymen consider airline pilots to be "real pilots", and GA pilots to be
amateurs.  Spare me an indignant lecture about how *anyone* can choose to
adopt an attitude of professionalism; let's be realistic about how the
average groundhog views the skies.  We're amateurs.

What distinguishes IFR flying from some truly arcane aviation sub-specialty,
like the ability to land a gyrocopter on skis on a frozen lake, is that it's
the IFR ticket that lets you play with the big boys.  Filing IFR means that
you share critical skills and knowledge with the pros, and with the ATC
system designed to support them.  It means that you can do the same things
they do -- shoot an ILS to minimums into National or O'Hare, for example.
It means that controllers are required to provide you with the same type of
service they give to USAir or United.  That's what I meant by saying you are
"in the system".

I don't recall my first solo instrument flight as being all that dramatic,
but I do recall frequently being impressed by the fact that I was sharing
the frequency and shooting the same approach as a USAir flight.  I'd even
point this out to passengers.  "Look, we're hanging out with the grownups."

Of course, if you're not interested in using an aircraft for transportation,
then you don't need the skills to be "in the system".  If you get your
jollies by landing your gyrocopter on frozen lakes, then go out and be the
best frozen-lake-gyrocopter-pilot you can possibly be.  All of us here on
rec.aviation will respect your for your specialized skills.  But the
groundhogs -- the sort of folks who establish official policies on use of
small planes for business travel -- will just think you're a weirdo with a
death wish.  That's the way it is with groundhogs.

As for the guy who talked about doing a 3 turn outside rolling circle:  that
maneuver is indeed impressive.  Personally, I'm still working on smooth
inverted flight.  Things got better when I stopped trying to center the
ball.

-- Dave Touretzky,  weirdo in training

Note for non-acro pilots:  the ball rests in a U-shaped glass tube.  Think
about it.
From: dfr@usna.navy.mil (PROF D. Rogers (EAS FAC))
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
Subject: Re: NACA airfoil data request
Date: 26 Jan 93 22:02:48 GMT
Organization: U. S. Naval Academy

In article <1k1154INN8pt@access.usask.ca> gps19@herald.usask.ca (Gregory P. Siemens) writes:
|[ Article crossposted from sci.aeronautics ]
|[ Author was Gregory P. Siemens ]
|[ Posted on 15 Jan 1993 17:21:28 GMT ]
|

|Does anyone out there have the raw data for NACA airfoils
|(or any others).  Data I need is Lift and Drag co-efficients for any
|angle of attack.  I have a book with several NACA airfoils in it
|(Abbott) but it contains only the graphs of this data and not the data
|itself.  I need the data in a form that could be typed into a data file
|or read into a program as a data file.  I would very much appreciate
|this data as we are trying to compile a database of Cd/Cl vs. Angle of
|attack for a large number of airfoils(not just NACA).  If you know of
|someone who has this data or a way of getting it please mail me with the
|info.

In nearly 35 years as an Aeronautical Engineer I have not seen this
(which does not mean it does not exist). The data in Abbott et al
on the graphics is really faired experimental data. So, everyone
always reads the values right off the graphs. If you try to
digitize this data I recommend that you get a copy of
NACA TR 824 (Abbott et al is basically a copy of this report)
where the graphs are 2-3 times as large.

Dave Rogers
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
From: masys@nlm.nih.gov (Dr. Daniel R. Masys)
Subject: Champs in crosswinds
Organization: National Library of Medicine
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 93 13:05:26 GMT

In article <1993Jan27.142750.25958@bony1.bony.com> richieb@bony1.bony.com (Richard Bielak) writes:

>But I bet you
>that there are plenty of airline pilots who would have hard time
>landing a Champ in a 10 knot cross wind :-).
>
Funny you should mention that.  After I tied down the 182 at Bay Bridge
after last evening's commute, a Champ arrived to do battle with the
20kt gusting winds and low level wind shear at about a 30 degree angle
to the runway.  The Champ's pilot was solo and did a reasonable job of
getting the plane landed, but couldn't turn onto the taxiway without
the plane weathervaning back into the wind.  After 4 or 5 360 circles
and unsuccessful attempts, the pilot got out of the plane (engine still
running), when back and grabbed the tail and pushed the airplane like
a big grocery cart up the taxiway.  Jumped back in once he had a more
or less direct tailwind.

Quite a show.  Life sure is boring in nosedraggers.

Dan Masys
masys@nlm.nih.gov
From: hutton@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Edward.Hutton)
Subject: Re: In the "System"
Organization: NCR E&M Columbia SC.
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 15:59:13 GMT

In article <742@oscar.UUCP> hurvitz@oscar.UUCP (Dennis Hurvitz) writes:
[stuff deleted]
>taking 40 hours of ifr training may give one the basics of ifr flying,
>but everyone i know was scared sh--less the first time they got their
>ticket wet, solo.
>
>i'm not saying ifr pilots are better. i'm saying they have more
>capabilities, and i refuse to accept the rationalization from those non
>rated that they are just as good. i think they are lacking an important
>foundation. bite the bullet and finish your training. 
>
	Oh man! Getting the IFR ticket wet the first time gives a whole
new meaning to the word SOLO. I felt as solo as it is possible to get
three seconds after I punched into the goo! Was that a faint tearing
sound below me as the fabric and cushion ripped from the seat?

	Oh sure, I almost max'ed the written. I did real well on the
check ride. My instructor had tortured me with no-gyro approaches and
as much of an over load on mental gymnastics as he could fiendishly
produce, but still! I was alone! 'A' 'L' 'O' 'N' 'E'!

	Yikes! I'd flown in the clouds with my instructor before.
I'd shot a ton of approaches with different safety pilots. But alone? 

        I picked the best WX I could get for my "solo". I filed
from my home field out to the VOR and then to the big airport across the
river. I picked a good day (700 ft overcast, 3 miles). The layer was a
couple of thousand feet thick. For just a few seconds, I WAS nervous --
then I realized I had too much to do to worry about it. Next thing I
knew I was sliding down the glideslope on a totally in the bull's eye
ILS landing. I called the missed at the DH (I had already told
approach I was going to do several ILS and an ASR back home). Three
approaches later, I was REALLY enjoying myself. The ASR back to CUB
was smooth. I was a REAL IFR pilot!

	The one thing I didn't fool myself about though was the part
I lacked. Experience! I'm still cautiously learning to fly weather a
bit at a time.

Ed


-- 
edward.hutton@ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Ed Hutton)    
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc,rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.student
From: eandersn@mach1.wlu.ca (Niels Ejvind Andersen)
Subject: Re: Pilotage: Food for thought
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Organization: Wilfrid Laurier University
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 16:25:56 GMT

 (TLT101@psuvm.psu.edu) wrote:
: I have to agree with filing a flight plan as being an extremely good idea.

And then do what your flight plan says you're going to do, or amend the
flight plan!  If aircraft are going to come looking for you, they are
going to fly the same route your flight plan said you would take.  That
won't do you any good if you went 25 miles off track just before you
went down!
--
Niels Ejvind Andersen                         Internet: eandersn@mach2.wlu.ca
Information Systems                             Voice:  (519) 884-1970 x 2760 
Wilfrid Laurier University                               Fax:  (519) 886-9351 
Waterloo, ON Canada  N2L 3C5                                  CIS: 70511,2302
                                                                  ... VFR NC4
From: dick.zeitlin%acc1bbs@ssr.com (Dick Zeitlin) 
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
Subject: Re: corrections/clarifica
Date: 20 Jan 93 22:23:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Advanced Computer Concepts BBS, New Rochelle, NY 914-654-1981
Reply-To: dick.zeitlin%acc1bbs@ssr.com (Dick Zeitlin) 

MLG> .In article <C12uvC.EB8.2#cs.cmu.edu> dst+@cs.cmu.edu (Dave Touretzky) wri

MLG> .> VFR pilots ... are not certified to work within "the system".

MLG> .No more flying for me; I'm grounded!

DT's statement is not quite correct.  Perhaps it would be better to say
that VFR pilots have a more limited spectrum of conditions to which they
have access.

MLG> .I have a very simple definition of a good pilot: It's a safe pilot.  A
   > .VFR pilot who never flies in clouds or other instrument conditions and
   > .who deals effectively with the intrinsic risks of flying is a good
   > .pilot.  Some guy with an instrument ticket who thinks that's a licence
   > .to fly in icing conditions, or who is incapable of making a forced
   > .landing if the need arises, is a lousy pilot.

MLG> .A good pilot is someone who inspires justified confidence in his (or
   > .her) passengers.  The number of letters you've got after your name
   > .doesn't matter a damn.

"Good" and "Bad" are orthogonal to the discussion of VFR vs. IFR capable
pilots.  Just as a PhD is not "good" or "bad" compared to a BS.  The
IFR-rated pilot does have an additional set of tools and capabilities
that allow flight in a more varied set of conditions.  The IFR-rated
pilot has demonstrated ability to deal with conditions and maneuvers
above and beyond what the VFR pilot has been required to demonstrate.

I wonder why it offends you so when someone states that an IFR rating is
a step up for a VFR-only pilot?

        D/
---
 . QMPro 1.0 41-3345 . Bring back A-N airways!!    Dick.Zeitlin%acc1bbs@ssr.com
                                                                               
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc,rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.student
From: patter@dasher.cc.bellcore.com (patterson,george r)
Subject: Re: Pilotage: Food for thought
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 93 01:47:30 GMT

In article <1993Jan23.000403.5779@pony.Ingres.COM> kerry@Ingres.COM (Kerry Kurasaki) writes:
>
>Hourly position reports are also a major help IF you do them
>regularly.

Yep. I make a point of giving flight watch a pilot's rep of weather
conditions every so often. They want the info, and my location is on
record.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                    |
George Patterson -  | I'd rather fight an entire army than battle an
                    | idle rumor.
                    |              Major General Smedley Butler
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: hull@sybil.cs.Buffalo.EDU (Jon Hull)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
Subject: software for CFI records management?
Date: 25 Jan 93 06:10:03 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: State University of New York at Buffalo/Comp Sci
Originator: hull@sybil.cs.Buffalo.EDU

Subject:  software for CFI records?

The CFI I'm working with asked me to post this question.
He is wondering if there is a software package that runs
on an IBM PC or compatible that will help him manage his records?
He is not a computer person and would prefer something that 
is easy to use.  I.e., he is not looking for a spreadsheet 
but rather is looking for something specialized for 
this application.  I know it's a long shot, but at 
least it's worth asking...

Jon Hull
hull@cs.buffalo.edu
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
From: masys@nlm.nih.gov (Dr. Daniel R. Masys)
Subject: Re: Teledyne Ryan Aeronautical
Organization: National Library of Medicine
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 13:26:17 GMT

In article <1k1jfoINN1rc@transfer.stratus.com> spenny@sw.stratus.com (Steve Pennypacker) writes:
>At the San Diego airport, I recently noticed a building with the words
>"Teledyne Ryan Aeronautical" on its side.  I wasn't aware that there was
>any "Ryan" still in business.  Can someone tell me what they do, and what
>is the relation to the original Ryan Aircraft (or whatever the proper name 
>would be).
>
That division of Teledyne makes (or until recently used to make) small
turbine engines for cruise missiles, and a series of Ryan target drones.
And yes, that Ryan is the same Ryan which built the Spirit of St. Louis,
back when Lindbergh field was a patch of grass called Dutch Flats (or
something like that).

Dan Masys
masys@nlm.nih.gov


Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
From: mparker@adobe.com (Mike Parker)
Subject: Flying Games/Diversions
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated, Mountain View
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 19:48:14 GMT


I'm looking for things to do to give people a reason to fly.  I know 
generally about poker games, fly-in breakfast, time-speed-distance
races, sightseeing trips.  But I know no details.  Exactly how is
airport poker played.  How does one set rules for, organize, handicap,
etc a TSD rally, where can the gang go that's a reasonable day or
weekend trip from Palo Alto, CA? 

In short, Iseek any and all information on social activities that
involve flying.  Please send e-mail and I'll summarize.

mike parker
mparker@adobe.com

P.S. - to those that remember I still plan to organize the Javier
Henderson Memorial Monterey Bay Fly-In, it just got delayed by conflict
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
From: philf@xymox.palo-alto.ca.us (Phil Fernandez)
Subject: Re: attitudes of IFR rated pilots (was Re: business flying policies)
Organization: Jade and Jett Incorporated
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 06:46:44 GMT

In article <1jh9gcINNqu8@mirror.digex.com> stephens@access.digex.com (John Stephens) writes:
>Hmmm... It might be better to refer to the IR as the "private
>pilot's Ph.D."  It certainly does not represent the ultimate in
>piloting proficiency or achievement. I would rate commercial and
>ATP higher, for example.

Of course, a "real" Ph.D doesn't represent the ultimate in academic
proficiency or achievement either...  Maybe we can think of the
commercial as equivalent to finishing a postdoc, and the ATP as the
equivalent of getting a tenured faculty position at a major
university.

:-)  :-)

pmf
From: rcm@Apple.COM (Robert Charles Monsen)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
Subject: Re: why IFR = "real pilot"
Date: 25 Jan 93 21:24:38 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc, Cupertino, CA

In article <C1ACJL.46I.2@cs.cmu.edu> dst+@cs.cmu.edu (Dave Touretzky) writes:
>
>As for the guy who talked about doing a 3 turn outside rolling circle:  that
>maneuver is indeed impressive.  Personally, I'm still working on smooth
>inverted flight.  Things got better when I stopped trying to center the
>ball.
>
>-- Dave Touretzky,  weirdo in training
>
>Note for non-acro pilots:  the ball rests in a U-shaped glass tube.  Think
>about it.

You mean you are flying inverted 'by the seat of your pants'?

:-)

Bob Monsen
Orion Network Systems
Berkeley, Ca.