From: jcarroll@jacc.com (Jim Carroll)
Reply-To: jcarroll@jacc.com
Newsgroups: acadia.cs.chat,can.general,can.jobs,ont.general,ont.jobs,comp.jobs
Subject: Re: CS Job Market: What Is The Story?
Date: 12 Apr 92 13:25:16 GMT
Organization: J.A.CARROLLCONSULTING,TORONTO,CANADA

king@feline.uucp (KingLeon @ Humber College Technology Dept.) once wrote....
>> In article <8181-PCNews-124beta@jacc.com> jcarroll@jacc.com (Jim Carroll) writes:
>> 
>> 
>>    I met with some students from Humber College a few weeks ago. They echoed
>>    your sentiments. I asked them what they were being taught : it was typical
>
>Guess you were talking to the wrong students from Humber College.  I'm  a
>professor in the Computer Engineering Department at Humber.  My students
>program in C from the beginning of 2nd year, take courses in Real Time,
>[material deleted]

>    Please remember that our lead times for introducing material is different
>than yours.  Texts have to be ordered half a semester before the start of
>[material deleted]
>
>    I should add that we are buried somewhere near the back of the college
>calendar -  I'm sure that staff at the registrar's office a) Think we
>teach computer repair (we do - by osmosis - if a student breaks something,
>finds a problem, they ask around and fix it)  b) Think of the business
>[material deleted]

I understand what you are trying to accomplish and applaud you for it. 
Obviously, the group that I spoke to were in a different stream.

To respond to all the comments that have gone through this thread : 
currently, I am dealing with a client that has been using a so-called 
'system integrator'. The integrator has been singularly unable to go 
through the simple process of plugging together two different LAN base 
mail environments. The integrator has not been effective at supporting 
an office environment consisting of 20-25 PC's, in a Novell LAN, with 
about 10 different applications. Nothing complex. And for this type of 
activity, the firm is now looking for options for support, which could 
come from a new integrator or in-house support. Hence, that is the type
of job that seems to be in demand : I see this as a common need in many
organizations.

It seems that we are at a point that this new 'client/server' environment
demands the types of skills that you refer to in your note : if something
breaks down, companies need someone to be able to fix it. If something needs
to be connected, they need someone to be able to connect it. If something
needs to be developed using tools on the market, they need someone to
develop it.

This calls for a wide ranging skill set : and one that is not easily 
obtained without a lot of experience. I think that the skills for this 
type of environment don't exist in a large way, and will evolve over time.
Basically, it involves the application of analytical skills and 
technical knowledge to solve particular problems in these interconnected
environments.

I think that the type of people you are putting through your course will
be the ideal mindset for the type of problems that I am seeing in organizations.
I only hope that other institutions (and even your own) begin to pursue
this environment to a greater degree....

(And before I am inundated with memos about this particular client of
mine, they are in the process of trying out another 'integrator', to see
if they have more technical and analytical knowledge than the current
one...)
                                        

>BTW:  Note that you wear a label of "consultant".   In general I don't 
>recommend to my students that they apply to consulting or headhunting
>firms for the first two years out of school.  I feel its important to
>get their feet wet as a "regular" employee in order to find out their 
>abilities.  We also don't teach COBOL or business programming:  they can
>use a spreadsheet and BS a Cost-Benefit Analysis but know nothing about
>bookkeeping. 

I am a Chartered Accountant, with 12 years in the large firm corporate
world, with 8 years of indepth technology work during that time. I too 
don't recommend that someone try to start out as a consultant : after all, 
a consultant only **sells their experience** to others...

jc

----
        ____     ___ ___       Jim Carroll, J.A. Carroll Consulting
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