From: mfleet@memstvx1.memst.edu
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
Subject: Re: HELP: Looking for info on exotic hardwoods (mail order woes)
Date: 16 Dec 92 20:05:57 GMT
Organization: Memphis State University

In article <1992Dec16.161559.17538@sarah.albany.edu>, jim@thor.albany.edu (SCHLEMMER JAMES A) writes:
> Hi,
> 
> Yesterday I received some exotic hardwoods that I had ordered from Woodworker's
> Source in Phoenix.  Before I call up to bitch, I'd like to get some feedback from
> more experienced woodworkers about what is to be expected in such an endevour.
> Please feel free to comment on any of the following:
> 
> o general questions:
> 	1) They advertise 4/4" board feet.  What does 4/4" mean?  The planks are
> 	   in fact 7/8" thick.  Is this analogous the the 2X4 being nowhere near
> 	   2" X 4" but that's the industry standard?
> 	2) Is it the usual case with such woods that only one side is guaranteed to
> 	   be usable and free from flaws?  The flyer said surfaced on 2 sides.
> 
** 4/4 means the the wood was four quarters of an inch thick at the time it
   was sawn.  Since the wood was probably dried after being cut into 4/4
   planks, some shrinkage probably occurred here.  You also later say that
   the wood was surfaced on two sides (can also be called S2S).  This surfacing
   was performed on the dried plank, with a furthur reduction in thickness.
   The 1/8 inch unaccouned for can be explained by shrinkage and surfacing.

** Yes, only one side is guaranteed.  Furthur, when the board is graded,
   only the best side is inspected.  Any flaws in the reverse side are
   generally ignored.  The only way this can practically be avoided is by
   "picking the stack," something that very few yards permit.  If permitted,
   the priviledge will usually be reflected in an increased price for the
   timber.

** You also did not give the grade of the timber.  You may not have known the
   grade, not having been given it by the retailer.  Lesser grades permit
   a higher number of flaws.

> o wood cost: 67.50	Shipping/handling: 22.50 (!!)
> 
> o wood breakdown:
> 	African Paduak	5.1  bf @ $7.99/bf (2 pieces)
> 	Purple Heart    3.25 bf @ $4.79/bf (2 pieces)
> 	Peroba Rosa     2.0  bf @ $5.59/bf (1 piece)
> 
> o wood flaws:
> 	general		Almost every piece had its corners rounded by poor
                        handling.  The
> 			entire order was rapped in plastic but the plastic
                        was worn 
> 			through at the corners.  It also had mud on it,
                        which had seeped
> 			through to some of the boards.
** These worn corners, dirty packaging, etc., sound like poor handling on
   the part of the shipper.  I have noticed in the few mail-order shipments
   I have received, the shipper does not recognise the value of "crummy
   old boards", and treats them poorly, chocking wheels with them, etc.>

**  Paduak: This sounds like a condition known as "shaking".  These "shakes"
    ... yes the same term as used for wood shingles, follow the curve of the
     annual rings of the timber.  If this occurs only on one side, it should
     be  on the "back" or ungraded side of the plank.  If it occurs on BOTH
     sides, you may have received inferior timber.   
      
>

 	African Paduak	Each piece has "flakey" areas on the broad sides - kind
> 			of like cracks that would develop under a great load 
                        but
> 			if you follow the cracks down to the edge of
                        the board you can
> 			see that they are actually more like gaps that
                        run through the
> 			wood.  I don't know if this is the nature of 
                        the wood or if I
> 			got stuck with some real bum pieces.  
                        One piece has these "flakey"
> 			areas on both sides.  I looks like it would be
                        quite a job to 
> 			finish these parts of the wood.
> 
> 	Purple Heart    Condition of the wood is OK but on one side of each 
                        piece there
> 			is a major bleach stain running down its length.
                        I took some
> 			sandpaper and a rasp to one board and 
                        verified that they are not
> 			superficial stains.  These stains account for 
                        about 1/5 of the
> 			area.
>** This is probably on the ungraded side of the plank.  Unfortunate, but....
    It could also be sapwoood, also possibly not considered because it may
    be on the ungraded side.
 
> 	Peroba Rosa     This is a 1x2 board and has a split running 2/3 of
                        the way down 
> 			the length of the board.  If I were to try to cut
                        it into 2 1x1 
> 			pieces, I'd end up with three pieces.  
                        This seems unacceptable.
> 
** This is a major flaw.  You are right, this is inexcusable.  

> 
> I layed out $90.00 for 5 planks of wood and not one of them is without a major flaw.  To
> say that I'm disappointed is a bit of an understatement.  It seems that these folks send
> you the pieces that never get taken from the sales floor.  So you pay the absurd shipping
> charges and get the most inferior goods.  But I guess that's the nature of mail order;
> alot of places count on people saying "it's too much of a pain to send it back - I'll
> just live with it."
> 
> Then again, maybe I'm wrong.
> 
> 
> Jim
> 
** Jim...
   I don't think you are wrong.  You may, however, need some more information
   in some areas.  I am not a lumber grader, but I use their publications
   to avoid some of these traps when buying lumber.  Fortunately, I have
   two or three local sources for some of these woods.  

   Before you complain, I would suggest calling the source and discussing 
   it with them.  If they are a reputable company, they should listen to
   your comments, and try to help, either by educating you, or making an 
   adjustment.  If they are not responsive, THEN COMPLAIN!!!

   If you want more information on how lumber is graded in order to protect
   yourself, you could call or write the National Hardwood Lumber Association.
   They are the organization which controls setting grading standards, training
   and accrediting lumber graders, etc.  Their address is P.O. Box 34518,
   Memphis, Tennessee, 38184-0518.  Their telephone is 901-377-1818.  The 
   chief grading official is Bob Sabastini.  While they will probably not
   drop all and rush to your aid, when I called them on your behalf,
   they suggested they could supply literature, and give some advice
   about contacting someone in your area to consult.  They're nice folks,
   but have limitations in what they can do.

   My suggestion is to try another retailer.  If possible, visit them.
   If you can't visit, call them, and without involving the name of the
   company you feel you had problems with, explain your concerns.  If they
   seem to be responsive, place a small order.  

   I have had some of these same problems in the past.  I share your concerns.
   Good luck.

   Marrin Fleet
   Computer Services, AD112   
   Memphis State University, Memphis, TN 
   901/678-3604
   Bitnet MFLEET@MEMSTVX1
   Internet MFLEET@MSUVX1.MEMST.EDU
> 
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