HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: moody@e4.ius.cs.cmu.edu (James Moody)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: GFCI question
Date: 11 Nov 92 20:23:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.BxKJB3.AAv.1
Reply-To: moody@cs.cmu.edu
Organization: CMU Vision and Autonomous Systems Center

In article <MICHAEL.92Nov11112444@sunbeam.ksc.nasa.gov>, michael@sunbeam.ksc.nasa.gov (Michael D. Myjak x7-3286) writes:
> 
>    [...]  I'll be replacing the old two-pronged outlets in my
>    80 year old house with GFCIs, and I know this follows code, as per the FAQ.
>    The FAQ also mentions that this also protects all the outlets downstream from
>    the GFCI.  I'd like to replace them at the same time, and would like them
>    to be 3 pronged outlets.  Can I wire in regular 3 prongers, just ignoring the
>    ground, or do they all have to be GFCIs in this case?
> 
> You can, the adverse consequences are that someone, perhaps a future
> owner, will/might assume that the outlet is grounded when in
> actuallity it is not.
> 
> Now, on to pick a nit: a GFCI in a circuit will protect *all* outlets
> on that circuit. In other words, a GFCI can go anywhere in the circuit
> and will provide protection to all devices in that circuit. 

Now, on to point out a glaring error: a GFCI in a circuit will protect
all outlets DOWNSTREAM from that point in a circuit.  Have you ever seen a
GFCI outlet?  They have 5 terminals: 1 ground, 1 terminal each for hot and
neutral on the load side, and 1 terminal each for hot and neutral on the 
source (or line) side.  When properly wired every outlet on the load side 
(downstream side) will be protected, but NOTHING between the circuit breaker
at the service panel and the GFCI circuitry will be protected by that GFCI.

Unless GFCI technology has radically changed since spring, a GFCI operates 
by monitoring current passing through the device, i.e., between the line 
and load terminals.  If the current through the hot side differs by some 
small amount (.0005 amps may be correct, I don't know) from the current 
in the neutral side, then the GFCI trips.  The key point here is that the
current must flow through the GFCI.

If a current fault develops in a section of the circuit upstream from 
the GFCI then there is no way in hell the GFCI can detect it.


>Thats
> because the GFI is sensing a current difference between the hot and
> neutral...  which there shouldn't be unless current is being grounded
> somewhere elsein the circuit. Typically, GFCI circuit breakers are set
> to trip at .005 amps.
> 
> --
> - Michael D. Myjak			
>   Senior Technical Specialist, Systems Analyst
>   McDonnell Douglas Space Systems Company
>   Kennedy Space Center, Fl., 32815
>   MYJAK@TITAN.KSC.NASA.GOV
> 
> Gravity. It's not just a good idea. Its the LAW!

-- 
James E. Moody Jr.	The Robotics Institute		(412) 268-2847
			Carnegie Mellon (University)	      CMU-BUGS
			Schenley Park
moody@cs.cmu.edu	Pittsburgh, PA 15213
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: zulch@suntan.ece.clarkson.edu (Peter Zulch)
Subject: test
Organization: Clarkson University
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 18:25:19 GMT



this is a test



sorry for the inconvineance!!!!
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: patter@dasher.cc.bellcore.com (patterson,george r)
Subject: Re: Indoor/Outdoor transition wiring question
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 15:57:12 GMT

In article <BxGx4L.GEG.1@cs.cmu.edu> moody@cs.cmu.edu writes:
>
>will be GFCI protected.  My question is what is the appropriate way to
>run the wire to the box?  Should I use conduit, or just use an exterior
>-grade romex with clamps as needed?  How does the romex passing into the
>box maintain a weather-tight seal?

I'd use thin wall conduit, mainly for appearance. Exterior romex is legal,
and you should use it if you like the appearance better than conduit.
If you want a weather-tight seal, bring the romex down past the box, hang
a U, and bring the wire into the bottom of the box.

>More importantly, what is a good method to bring the wire out through
>the ceiling?  Just run it out of a notch in the cedar and caulk around
>it, or must I install a box (yuck)?

Cutting a notch (or drilling a neat hole) in the ceiling will work fine.
Practically, you only need a junction box to contain points at which
you've spliced wires (that's why they call it a "junction" box).

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                    | If it were not possible to allow a little energetic
George Patterson -  | discussion between opposing factions, there would
                    | be no market for tire irons or band-aids.
                    |                             Sam Venable
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: kim@oasys.dt.navy.mil (John Kim)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: A humidifier into central AC/heating system
Date: 9 Nov 92 22:47:27 GMT
Article-I.D.: oasys.27361
Reply-To: kim@oasys.dt.navy.mil (John Kim)
Distribution: na
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Annapolis, MD


    My friend thinks about a humidifier into the central heating/AC 
system. His idea is that cut an air duck round in the boiler room and
put the humidfier into it. If they have the humidifier around, could 
anyone tell me the model name and it's price?  Any pro and con idea 
of its idea?  Can it cause the air duck rust and sanitary problem?

John Kim
From: deans@chips.com (Dean Skelton)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: wagner airless sprayer
Date: 10 Nov 92 23:12:53 GMT
Organization: Chips and Technologies, San Jose, CA

Don't bother buying one. Rent a commercial grade machine
that you can just drop the feeder tube in a five gallon
bucket. I painted all the acoustic ceilings in my house
in about two hours not including prep time, four rooms.
Buy or rent one of those taping machines that dispenses 
a sheet of masking film that folds out to about six feet, 
it speeds prep time. I own a Krebbs (?) airless similar to
the wagner and have been meaning to throw it out after
I rented a commercial one. I rented the sprayer for the
weekend for $80 dollars, worth every penny. If you have
all the rooms ready to paint you can easily paint them
in a single day.
Good Luck
	Dean Skelton

-- 
Internet: bmay@chips.com        | Signature under construction...
Phonenet: 408-434-0601 x4550    | 
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: patter@dasher.cc.bellcore.com (patterson,george r)
Subject: Re: Removing oil from driveway
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 92 00:50:12 GMT

In article <barrett.721082726@cc.gatech.edu> barrett@terminus.gatech.edu (James Barrett) writes:
>My wife and I just moved into a house we are renting.  The previous
>tenants evidently had a problem with oil leaks in their car, because
>there is quite a bit of oil at the top of the driveway.  Is there
>any way to remove this or at least help stop it from being dragged into
>the house every time I forget and walk through it.

If the driveway is concrete, you can use mineral spirits as a solvent.
If it's asphalt, mineral spirits would disolve the asphalt. For that,
a product like zip-zorb will soak up some. You might then be able to
apply a sealer.

Good luck.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                    | You can't find the answers in the bottom of a
George Patterson -  | whiskey glass, but if you look hard enough, you'll
                    | forget the questions.
                    |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: bullock@watson.bms.com (JOAN BULLOCK)
Subject: Re: Ceiling Fan Recommendations Wanted
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Organization: Bristol Myers Squibb Pharmaceutical Research Institute
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 19:34:00 GMT

In article <1992Nov10.011857.29384@ims.com>, billr@falcon.ims.com writes...
>I understand that Hunter fans are VERY good.  Quiet, low-vibration,
>and durable.


According to a fan dealer I talked to a couple of months ago, Hunter _used_
to be very good.  Not so recently.  The absolute best is Casablanca.  
Followed by a number of other popular brands which I can't remember. 
(Panasonic (?) comes to mind.)

Try picking the brains of a couple of fan dealers.

Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: arthur@acoustics.whoi.edu (Arthur Newhall)
Subject: Roof problem?
Organization: Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 92 20:50:19 GMT



I think I may have a roof problem.  I was checking things out in my attic 
while it was raining when I noticed that there were water droplets on the ends
of ALOT of the roofing nails that protrude through the roof.  Since the roof
was reshingled (with high-grade shingles) less than 5 years ago I was quite dumbfounded to come up with a reason why this was happening. 

1: Could this be only moisture condensation?

2: Has anyone seen this type of behavior?

3: Should I fear the worse (new roof)?  Should I ignor it as long as there
	is plenty of circulation?

4: Can anything be done to prevent this? 

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
--
| Arthur Newhall                             |                        |
| Applied Ocean Physics & Engineering Dept.  | (508) 548-1400  x3317  |
| Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution       | anewhall@whoi.edu      |
| Woods Hole, MA  02543                      |                        |
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: davel@booboo.SanDiego.NCR.COM (David Lord)
Subject: Re: Re: How to tell a REAL buyer's agent
Reply-To: davel@booboo.SanDiego.NCR.COM (David Lord)
Organization: NCR Corporation, Rancho Bernardo
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 17:57:41 GMT

In article <1992Nov6.170310.2052@mccc.edu> pjh@mccc.edu (Pete Holsberg) writes:
>
>BOTH OF THESE AGENTS HAVE A LEGAL RESPONISIBILITY TO ACT IN THE BEST
>INTEREST OF THE SELLER OF THE PROPERTY.
>
>In many states (CA is big on this, I say to the poster whose relative is
>a realtor with Coldwell Bankers in CA ;-)), there is a new concept
>called "buyer agency" or "buyer brokerage."

Here are some quotes from the "Disclosure Regarding Real Estate Agency
Relationships" printed by the California Association of Realtors(R):

"		BUYER'S AGENT
"
"A selling agent can, with a Buyer's consent, agree to act as agent for
"the Buyer only. In these situations, the agent is not the Seller's
"agent even if by agreement the agent may receive compensation for services
"rendered, either in full or in part from the seller.

(Followed by a list of the agent's obligations to the Buyer and to
the Buyer and Seller)
....
"		AGENT REPRESENTING BOTH BUYER AND SELLER
....
"In representing both Seller and Buyer, the agent may not without the
"express permission of the respective party, disclose to the other party
"that the Seller will accept a price less than the listing price or that
"the Buyer will pay a price greater than the price offered.

The copy I am looking at indicates that my listing agent was acting
for "the Seller exclusively" and the selling agent was acting for
"the Buyer exclusively".

I would recomend (at least for Californians) that you ask to see this
disclosure up front (usually you only see it as part of making or receiving
an offer) and ask your agent exactly what it means.
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: cdash@moet.cs.colorado.edu (Charles Shub)
Subject: Re: Single opener for two garage doors?
Organization: University of Colorado at Colorado Springs
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 16:42:33 GMT

In article <1992Nov12.185034.2588@icd.ab.com> rgciccot@ibis.icd.ab.com (Rich G. Ciccotti) writes:
=>  My house has a two-car garage with two doors (aluminum, so they're
=>  relatively light). Does anyone know if it is possible to install
=>  a single garage door opener to control both doors? Do any of the
=>  major manufacturers (Genie, Stanley, etc.) sell some type of installation
=>  kit that would allow this?

about 12 years ago, I found a kit at sears that would allow this.  The
kit was basically two bars that got bolted between the doors, and then
the opener sat between the doors and pulled the bars.  It worked well.
As I recall it was under $30 for the kit then.
-- 

charlie shub  cdash@cs.Colorado.EDU       -or-         (719) 593-3492     
on leave at the University of Iowa  cdash@cs.uiowa.edu (319) 335-0739
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: patter@dasher.cc.bellcore.com (patterson,george r)
Subject: Re: Locksets - brand recommendations
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 92 01:03:50 GMT

In article <1992Nov06.211045.9817@mav.com> toddi@mav.com (Todd Inch) writes:

>The latest newcomer appears to be Master, which formerly only made
>padlocks. Master makes good quality padlocks but they also sell some
>real cheapies  (fortunately the cheapies LOOK like cheapies), and I
>would expect decent  key-in-knob locksets from them, but don't really
>know.

I just bought a couple of these - one that locks behind you and one
double cylinder dead-bolt. They appear to be top quality locks. The
push-button one has a locking button which turns to lock/unlock the
door from the inside. When the door is locked, you can't open it by
turning the knob; you must turn the button. For me, this is a feature -
it lets me easily check to see if the door's locked. Others might not
like it. We also couldn't find any way to get it apart to re-key the
cylinder. Since it is possible to get some locks apart from outside
the door, this also was a plus to me (though it wasn't a plus to the
locksmith).

Installation presented absolutely no problems (believe me, this is
rare). All the best thief-proofing goodies are built into the design,
and the locks operate much more easily than the old ones I replaced (an
old Guardsman (Sears) and a Lustre-Line cheapie).

They are *not* cheap, however. Those two locks set me back $60 and some
change.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                    | You can't find the answers in the bottom of a
George Patterson -  | whiskey glass, but if you look hard enough, you'll
                    | forget the questions.
                    |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: rhaar@albert.cs.gmr.com (Bob Haar)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: wagner airless sprayer
Date: 6 Nov 92 12:44:56 GMT
Reply-To: rhaar@albert.cs.gmr.com
Organization: G.M. Research and Environmental Staff

In article 19582@oswego.Oswego.EDU, ostroff@Oswego.EDU (Boyd Ostroff) writes:
|>In article <gmVPTB1w164w@carrera.wvus.org> pete@carrera.wvus.org (Pete Gregory) writes:
|>>3. buy a wagner airless sprayer ($150) and use the same ceiling paint 
|>>   (behr ceiling ultra pure white), and keep the sprayer [almost]
|>>   forever.
|>>
|>I have used these for years, but not in the home; we sometimes paint
|>scenery with them.  They can be very useful, but I'm not completely
|>sold on them.  First, they definitely DO NOT last forever.  With moderate
|>use ours last a year or two.  I suppose you might repair them, but we
|>don't.  My main objection is the noise and vibration level - it's very
|>unpleasant.  I'd suggest you borrow or rent one and see if you can handle
|>it.  Of course you have all the usual spray gun problems of cleanup, which
|>is not trivial, and if you don't keep it clean it won't work. 

I also have used a Wagner Airless Spray gun for several years and
agree with Boyd's comments. I only used it for large projects because
the overhead of setup and cleanup is so high compared toa brsu or roller.

|>
|>>the paint shop guy says there is
|>>"practically no overspray" with this sprayer (i'd still drop-cloth
|>
|>You don't get the fine mist overspray that a compressed air sprayer gives,
|>but believe me, these things are messy.  They drip and splatter.  Personally
|>I wouldn't even dream of painting a room inside a finished house with
|>one.  

Indeed.

But there is enother possibility. There is a new variety of paint sprayers
called High Volume Low Pressure (HVLP) that are supposed to reduce
overspray drastically. These are sold primarily for applying furniture
quality finishes (like lacquer), but might work for paint as well.
Wagner has a model that sells for less than $200.



---
	Robert Haar               InterNet : rhaar@gmr.com 
	Computer Science Dept., G.M. Research and Environmental Staff
DISCLAIMER: Unless indicated otherwise, everything in this note is
personal opinion, not an official statement of General Motors Corp.


Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: richt@meaddata.com (Rich Thompson)
Subject: Re: GFCI question
Organization: Mead Data Central, Dayton OH
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 15:45:39 GMT
Distribution: usa


   Well, now that we  have established that  a GFCI protects
   downstream outlets, what's the best  way  to determine if
   one outlet is downstream to another?

Rich
-- 
---
I bet you were expecting a disclaimer here, weren't you?

Richard L. Thompson                                Systems Development
Mead Data Central                                   richt@meaddata.com
9595 Springboro Pike                          ...!uunet!meaddata!richt
Dayton, Ohio  45342
From: ski@dior.hw.stratus.com (Chris Valerio)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: House Flies
Date: 6 Nov 92 18:40:22 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

>In article <1992Nov5.203718.29625@Princeton.EDU>, bill@soil.Princeton.EDU 
>(Bill Wichser) writes:

>We just purchased a house in central NJ which we are in the process of
>painting inside (among other things!).  When we put the heat on, flies come out
>from everywhere!  There must be 12 to 20 flies per room.

>Does anyone know where they are coming from?  We do not see any as long as the
>house is cold.  The house has been empty now for 2 weeks and yet they are still
>here.  Is there a way we can be assured of ridding the house of these things?

>Do you have a fireplace or wood stove?  If you do, do you also store wood in
>the house for more than a day (in other words, not burn the same day what you
>bring in)?  If you're doing this, you may well be bringing in wood that's
>hosting fly larvae which is hatching in the comfort of your home.

After coming home from a weekend vacation my wife and myself were killing an
average of 20 to 35 flies a day for three days.  After calling an exterminator
we checked the flue of our fireplace. Surprise, a dead squirrel sitting in our
chimney.  He was hard as a rock and providing a nice home for those flies. Any
amounts of food left to decay or dead animals in or around your house can cause
fly infestation. After we removed Rocky, the flies also vanished.

Chris
From: ostroff@Oswego.EDU (Boyd Ostroff)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: wagner airless sprayer
Date: 5 Nov 92 15:19:33 GMT
Reply-To: ostroff@oswego.Oswego.EDU (Boyd Ostroff)
Organization: Instructional Computing Center, SUNY at Oswego, Oswego, NY

In article <gmVPTB1w164w@carrera.wvus.org> pete@carrera.wvus.org (Pete Gregory) writes:
>3. buy a wagner airless sprayer ($150) and use the same ceiling paint 
>   (behr ceiling ultra pure white), and keep the sprayer [almost]
>   forever.
>

I have used these for years, but not in the home; we sometimes paint
scenery with them.  They can be very useful, but I'm not completely
sold on them.  First, they definitely DO NOT last forever.  With moderate
use ours last a year or two.  I suppose you might repair them, but we
don't.  My main objection is the noise and vibration level - it's very
unpleasant.  I'd suggest you borrow or rent one and see if you can handle
it.  Of course you have all the usual spray gun problems of cleanup, which
is not trivial, and if you don't keep it clean it won't work. 

>the paint shop guy says there is
>"practically no overspray" with this sprayer (i'd still drop-cloth

You don't get the fine mist overspray that a compressed air sprayer gives,
but believe me, these things are messy.  They drip and splatter.  Personally
I wouldn't even dream of painting a room inside a finished house with
one.  Buy a roller, handle and pan for $10.

.............................................................................
....Boyd Ostroff / Technical Director / SUNY Oswego Department of Theatre....
...............Voice: (315) 341-2987 /  Fax: (315) 341-3394..................
..............ostroff@oswego.oswego.edu / ostroff@cboard.UUCP................
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: guppy@wixer.cactus.org (Jennifer Mery)
Subject: Re: R-values
Organization: Real/Time Communications
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 92 03:12:44 GMT

Anyone have any good ideas on how i should go about insulating the
vertical parts (sides) of my vaulted ceiling? It's already insulated on
the top, but the walls at stick up above the regular rafters get hot in
the summer.

jam
-- 
==============================================================================
Jennifer Mery |
Austin, Texas | guppy@wixer.cactus.org
==============================================================================
From: hwt@bcarh11a.BNR.CA (Henry Troup)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Central Vacs
Date: 13 Nov 92 16:09:36 GMT
Reply-To: Henry.Troup@BNR.CA
Distribution: na
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada

I've contemplated that central vaccuum would be a good thing for people
with allergies - unlike a conventional vaccuum cleaner, the vent is
outside, after all.  Any comments?

BTW, the oldest central vaccuum system I've seen was installed in 1919. 
It was no longer functional.  I imagine that the piping and seals were
mostly organic rubber or leather and have long since 'perished'.  This
is in Hart House, a subject centre at the University of Toronto.

Henry Troup - H.Troup@BNR.CA (Canada) - BNR owns but does not share my opinions
	"It's a good thing we don't get all the government we pay for."
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: remesch@stsci.edu
Subject: Finishing banister, what's it cost?
Organization: Space Telescope Science Institute
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 14:51:09 GMT

Okay, here's the story...I have an 80 year old rowhome that I've been doing
repairs to, one project involved stripping the banister of 5 layers of 
paint.  I'm now to the point where I need to sand and stain and I'm quite
tired of working on it.  I was thinking of hiring someone to finish this 
project, any idea of what this would cost?

Karen
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: rlittles@qualcomm.com (Roland Littles)
Subject: Framing f/Apartment above garage
Followup-To: misc.consumers.house
Organization: Qualcomm
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 00:09:49 GMT

Okay here it is,
		       I want to build an apartment/playroom above the garage. I would
like to know if anyone has done this or had it done and the cost. I was
thinking of using 4 steel columns and setting the new structure on top of
it and incorporating the  already existing garage. The reason being I've
seen many homes that have a carport with a room above it supported in this
way.
Any help/advice will be appreciated!!

Thanks in advance!!  
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: harrism@aquila.rtp.dg.com (Mike Harris)
Subject: Re: Locksets - brand recommendations
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 13:59:13 GMT
Reply-To: harrism@dg-rtp.dg.com
Organization: Data General Corp., Research Triangle Park, NC

In article <MICHAEL.92Nov10092945@sunbeam.ksc.nasa.gov>, michael@sunbeam.ksc.nasa.gov (Michael D. Myjak x7-3286) writes:
|> 
|> > I do a little lock work too.  I've never seen a decently made kwikset
|> > product.  They're at the bottom of my list.  I haven't seen a new Weiser
|> > in several years.  Are they out of business?
|> 
|> What exactly, is it that you find wrong with kwikset locks? Is it
|> perhaps the technical merits of the cylinder?  The bolt? Not being an

	Kwickset locks are easily picked. Got 5 minutes to learn how?