From: torresce@craft.camp.clarkson.edu (Carlos E. Torres)
Subject: Re: Invasion of Time
Organization: Clarkson University
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 12:48:05 GMT

markc@hydra.maths.unsw.EDU.AU () writes:
>a Time Lord. I've said it before. Maybe a future story will confirm all your
>ideas, but right now it is all the product of your imagination. That is
>fine. I have no fundamental objection to the ideas, but for god's sake why
>can't people separate their own imaginings from what has been established 
>beyond doubt?

>Flame off,
>mark C.

>>They have!  Many times!  Perhaps you weren't paying attention.  All in all,
>>despite your objections, I find their story to appear more credible than
>>yours.  When there is nothing out there substancial, one must go with a more

You are perfectly welcome to find their story more credible than mine.But I
think you have missed the point entirely if i may say so with out being
rude. It has been stated here many times that Time Lords only become 
Time Lords after graduating the academy. At this point they are givenm their
regenerations. People have said this without making it clear that we know
no such thing. That is what i object to. Read my posts. I make it totally
clear that I am speculating. You are quite free to believe what you will.
That is the beauty of it. We know very little about what the Time Lords do
on a day to day basis. From my own study of ancient history, I am aware of
the dangers of attributing properties to cultures about which we know little,
based upon fragmentary knowledge. That is the point I make, thwe whole point.
maybe the Time Lords do learn to regenerate at school, but we do not 
know this for a fact as some posters have claimed over the years. 
 

>circumstancial approach.  I find it much harder to believe that some alien
>race got ahold of many things of Gallifreyan origin (and have Gallifreyan
>technology - AND know how to use it!), know alot about theoretical concepts
>which have just been shown to be known only in Gallifrey!  I think your leap
.of inference to some other race out there that has this Gallifreyan 
>knowledge, is a bigger leap than saying they originate from Gallifrey!  You
>are bringing a new variable in!  That to me, makes things more complex and 
>.is less believable.  There is nothing (turning things around) concrete to 
>prove they are of a different race - so right now this is just a product of
>YOUR imagination.  
>	Mystic
>(alex.soto@analog.com)

There is nothing concrete to say they are Gallifreyan either. There is 
nothing conctrete at all in fact. Non Gallifreyans have got a hold of
Gallifreyan knowledge many times in the series. Witness the "Two Doctor's"
where they try and steal the symbiotic nucleus, or "Trial of A Time Lord"
where aliens steal information out of the matrix itself! Arguing that aliens
stole a regenerator, and did not really understand what it would do to them
seems just as credible to me aliens pinching information from the matrix.
Maybe the aliens who pinched the information from the matrix sold it
to the eight in MAwdryn? (Yes speculation). So in fact you are wrongg in part
here. Aliens stealing from Gallifrey is not a big leap, or a new variable
since we know it has happened. On the other hand, assuming they are Gallifreyans requires us to believe that there are Gallifreyans who cannot regenerate,
something of which there has not been the slightest suggestion on the show.
So the choice is really between assuming something with no basis in fact on 
the show (That they were non regeneraing Gallifreyans) and asuming something
we know to have happened.(Aliens steal technology from Gallifrey). If ou
do not see it this way, that's up to you.

Mark C.