HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tracy@scoraz.resp-sci.arizona.edu (Tracy Scheinkman)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: re: good hips and shoulders
Date: 1 Oct 92 21:27:09 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson, AZ

Hi, Mary Ann Pike, asked how to tell if your horse has good hips
and shoulders, since it was my filly in the dressage class I
figured I'd give this a shot.
	It's all in the bones.  First you want the length of hip
to be relatively long compared to the length of the horse's
body.  Ideally the length from point of hip to point of butt should
be at least 1/3 the total body length.  A long hip gives lots of
room for many muscle attachments and also gives a longer lever arm
to produce power from the motion of the stride.  Second, you want
the angle that the hip is set at to be at least 25 degrees but no
greater than 50 degrees (Deb Bennett says at least 15 degrees but
I think that's too shallow).  To measure the angle look at the 
point of your horse's hip and the point of your horse's butt (if
your horse has a very round rump feel for the end of the bone)
connect the two visually with a line and then estimate the angle
compared to a flat horizontal line.  The third component of
a good hip is where the muscles attach down the thigh, you want
the attachment to be as deep and long down the thigh as you can
get 'em.  And finally you want a very clean stifle joint, which
ideally should form a perfect equilatoral triangle with the hip
joint and pelvic (butt) joint.  Whether the croup is level or
sloping does not affect the hip angle or action, though a smooth
connection between the croup and back is essential.
	The shoulder is a little easier you want a good length of
shoulder so that the front part of the horse consisting of
shoulder and chest constitute another 1/3 of the body length.  And
you want the shoulder to slope somewhat, ideally 45 degrees however
different sports want different shoulder slope, for example
hunters like a little straighter shoulder than dressage people do.
A sloping shoulder gives greater reach and elasticity to the stride,
though there is such a thing as too much slope, much more than 45
degrees and the horse tends to move more up than out with each stride.
You measure the slope by following the line from the point of the
horse's shoulder on back along the front edge of the shoulder muscle
group which follows the bone.  That gives you a line at an angle
which you then compare to an imaginary horizontal.
	Remember when looking at the horse that the horse should
be standing so that it's front cannon bones are perfectly 
vertical or the shoulder angle will change.

				Tracy and everybody
From: pxjones@crdec6.apgea.army.mil (Paulette Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Brenderup
Date: 5 Oct 92 17:55:16 GMT
Reply-To: equestrians@world.std.com
Organization: BBN news/mail gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: news.bbn.com

I thought I would post a followup to the request for a Brenderup
phone number on the east coast.  I looked at the floor of my friend's
trailer.  She bought the trailer in 1988, so it is only 4 or 5 years
old.  She had some shipping damage when she bought it and had trouble
getting Brenderup to pay for it, but they finally did pay.  The floor
looks like 3/4 inch plywood with 1/4 or 1/8 inch masonite underneath.
I'm no expert at materials.  There is water damage all around the 
outside edge of the wood floor, but worst is left front (hay area)
right underneath the window.  I dug my finernails through several layers
of plywood and hit the solid piece that looked like the material we
could see from underneath (masonite?).  The roof has three lights
installed and we could see daylight, one source of leaks for Brenderup
owners to check.  Then one corner of each window had a water trail from
it.  Can they be caulked?  Looking underneath, there wasn't much in
the way of support, only one metal rail, front to back, nothing crossing.
To replace the floor, an inner aluminum wall must be removed.  It looks
riveted, so I guess they can be drilled and replaced with bolts or
screws.  If a thicker floor is put in (say 1 inch instead of 3/4), does
it matter where that inner wall gets put back?  I didn't notice if any
obstructions above would stop it if the floor were "taller".  My friend
has used floor mats and mostly hauled only one horse.  We wondered if
removing the mat to let the floor dry would have helped.  Still 4 years
on an expensive trailer and have to replace the floor?  She is also
having trouble with the hitch, though I didn't get details, and she put
rubber on the ramp because she didn't like the footing.  Are there any
similar Brenderup problems out there?

Paulette & Nipper
From: linda@linda.intel.com (Linda Harbin)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: sentementality
Date: 5 Oct 92 23:10:26 GMT
Reply-To: linda@linda.intel.com (Linda Harbin)
Organization: Adams Software, Lake Oswego OR  USA

In article <1aq4acINNi9n@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu>, pallas@CEPHALO.NEUSC.BCM.TMC.EDU (Sarah Pallas) writes:
|> Sarah Pallas and Monty (my half-leased horse who is owned and loved by
                                                                 ^^^^^^^^
|> somebody else!)
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Don't you love him too?

This thread has really gotten me thinking.  My other horse, Asa, never gave
me the chance to put him down.  He died before the vet and I could make a
decision.  But now I have Reba who, many of you may remember, has bone spavins.
I am still riding her but if I want to get into serious riding, I am going
to have to look at getting another horse.  Since I cannot afford two horses,
I want to find a good home for her and will not look for another horse until
I have found a home for Reba.  The thought keeps crossing my mind that with
her bone spavins, I may not be able to find a good home for her and I would
rather put her down that risk her going to a bad home.  

Now the hard question.  I do not want to start any flame wars but if I have
to put her down, do I have the vet do it or do I sell her to the meat
market and get some money out of her.  I know this sounds cold and I really
agonize over it.  I hear horrible stories of how horses are treated on their
way to the meat market, then I hear other people say the horrible stories are
just rumors and horses are not treated that way.  How do you know? 

Like I said, I do not want to start a flame war, but does anyone out there
have any thoughts on this subject?

***************************************************
	Linda Harbin       Hillsboro, Oregon 
	503-696-2261       linda@littlei.intel.com
***************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Don't have a clue...
From: sbishop@desire.wright.edu
Date: 29 Sep 92 17:39:20 EST
Organization: Wright State University 


Does anyone out there know anything about Hackney ponies?  A friend has offered
her Hackney pony to the littliest girl who rides my horse as a 4H project next
year.  I know horses, don't know diddly about ponies, especially Hackneys.
Where can I find a saddle to fit this pony?  Will a regular child's size
hunt saddle fit?  (We haven't even seen the pony...)  I know that she will
need a saddle seat suit to show in, does anyone have a size 6 or 8 childs
suit for sale cheap?

Sue
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: kw@cbnews.cb.att.com (kathleen.m.wilber)
Subject: First Show Results
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 20:39:02 GMT
Keywords: Daleilah

Well, Daleilah and I entered my first horse show the Sunday before last.

The show was a Fun Show at my barn for the horses at the barn, their owners,
and students of the two instructors who teach at the barn.

There were lots of entries for most of the 18 classes.  There were approximately
25 riders and 15 horses participating (school horses were shared), with family
and friends of the riders sitting along side of the arena in deck chairs.
Everything was very friendly, and the audience applauded every effort.
There were English, Western, Jumping, and miscellaneous fun classes (with Hunt
Seat and Saddle Seat riders mixed willy-nilly in the English classes).

I entered four classes, and came away with three ribbons: a 2nd in
Equitation, a 3rd in Trail, and a 4th in English Pleasure.  For the
fourth class, Pattern (judged on the most accurate implementation of a fairly
simple pattern), Daleilah was a bit hyper and, when she was supposed to walk,
kept trying to canter, making rather a mess of the class. The second in
Equitation was nice, especially since the class was interupted by a bolting
horse dumping his rider (no injuries!), and Daleilah, though tempted, did
*not* join him!  The third in trail was quite a surprise - 14 horses
entered, and first was taken by Daffy (the horse I used to lease, who is 27 yrs
now, and unflappable), and second by a horse that has, in fact, done a lot of
trail work.  Daleilah hasn't been outside an arena or paddock in her life,
and I entered Trail on a whim the morning of the show.  With lots of
opportunities for spooking or refusing, Daleilah did everything she was
asked - and, in fact, was far more interested in what she was doing and
less distracted by the loudspeakers and crowd than in any of her other classes.
The fourth in English Pleasure was, well... last:  The Adult W-T-C section
of that class only had four entries!  In English Pleasure, Daleilah also
wanted to canter more than was asked of her.  She did have fun with the
Hand Gallop, though!

All in all, great fun was had by all, and it was a very successful show.
And I found out something I have to work on for real shows (aside from
the obvious riding skills): warm-up timing!  How to keep Daleilah from
getting either bored or hyper with all the hurry-up-and-wait associated
with entering several classes spaced over the day: the cantering without
being asked to is not a problem we have normally!

 - Kathy Wilber and Daleilah (who hasn't bolted in ages, and is now very
   willingly learning to jump!)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: kjenks@krakatoa.uucp (Kenneth C. Jenks [GM2] 483-4368)
Subject: Re: Winter Riding
Keywords: blue hands, feet
Organization: NASA/JSC/GM2, Space Shuttle Program Office
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 23:45:30 GMT

In article <1992Sep22.205731.25057@infonode.ingr.com> $USER@`uname -n`.b17a.ingr.com writes:
>In article <1992Sep21.181039.9133@piston.detroit.ingr.com>, ferricpl@piston.detroit.ingr.com (Pat Ferrick) writes:
>|> 
>|> As for riding in winter, the one that needs the most preparation, is ME! I
>|> bought myself a pair of the Millers Warm-Toes winter riding boots a couple of
>|> years ago. Best money I ever spent! These work great!! Last year, I indulged
>|> myself with a new "Mountain Horse" winter riding coat, which also has helped
>|> keep the chill away. Now, if I could only find a good pair of gloves, I'd be
>|> set! Any suggestions.....?
>|> 
>|> Pat Ferrick
>|> Golden Ghost
>
>Silk glove liners are very warm but may not be enough for winter in Detroit.
>
>karen

I have been diagnosed as having "Reynauds Disease" which means my hands
turn blue and loose all feeling if I let them get cold.  I have managed
to get permanent nerve damage especially in my right hand as a result.
(Effectively, Reynauds means that the capillaries in my hands shut down
and I get no blood, or O2 to my hands, esp. fingers).  The doctors 
told me to "avoid cold exposure".  I moved to Texas, what more do they
want?  (Cold, to my hands, is anything below ~75 F).
Where can I get gloves which will keep my hands warm enough so I can
continue to ride my perfect horse this winter?  I don't think ski
gloves will work with buckles, draw reins etc.  They are just too bulky,
and I've never noticed that they keep my hands very warm anyway.
Currently, I'm looking for a half lease(er) for Secant this winter,
so he's worked enough to be safe when it is warm enough for me to ride.

Lisa Jenks
(on Ken Jenkses account)
From: woit@qucis.queensu.ca (Denise Woit)
Subject: Re: sentementality
Organization: Computing & Information Science, Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 17:39:45 GMT

In article <1992O> GC.SUL@forsythe.stanford.edu (Sullivan) writes:

>                                              ...  My horse was
>really my best friend for 7 years and I feel really sorry for the
>way I let her down in the end

This brings to mind an article I just read in the paper. The headlines said
something about a guy stipulating in his will that his horses be shot when
he died. Apparently its been a year since the man died, and the RCMP haven't 
killed the horses yet, and don't really want to. My first reaction was "good 
for them", but after reading the article, I saw that it wasn't so clear-cut.
The following info is from the article.

They are percheron horses. They were used, as apparently most percherons are
in Newfoundland, to compete in pulling contests. Some believe these contests
are cruel, because the horse is hitched to heavier and heavier weights, and
whipped until they're so exhausted that they can't pull anymore. They win 
based on weight pulled per pound of horse; thus, it is supposed to be a 
common practice for people to try to starve weight off a horse before a 
competition (I know this sounds stupid, but that's what they said.) 

This man thought the contests cruel, so he bought three of the top prize 
winners himself, so that they would never have to endure these contests again. 
They became pets. He knew that when he died, the horses would probably 
eventually end up in these contests again (they are young.) So he wanted them 
put down when he died. 

Like some of the others who have posted on this subject, I too have
agonized over the fate of my ex-horse. I sold her to lovely people who took
great care of her. Unfortunately, they sold her to *horrible* people and
the mare has spent many *horrible* years with them. The first people did not 
know how the next people treated their horses, and were devastated when I 
told them. If only they had contacted me before the sale, she never would have
gone to these horrible people.

I often wonder if it would be possible to sell a horse with the stipulation
that you get to check out and agree upon all future owners. I would imagine
that this would not be possible from a legal stand. Does anyone know of
anything like this in real life?

							...Denise
From: cgreen@sersun1.essex.ac.uk (Green ISBD C)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: founder ????
Date: 6 Oct 92 08:05:32 GMT

From article <1992Oct6.002315.20167@sserve.cc.adfa.oz.au>, by macaj2@cspyr1.cs.adfa.oz.au (MACKINNELL AMANDA):
> Hi everybody,
> 	I'm going to plead ignorance on this: What is FOUNDER???

I asked this question a while ago, it is what we call in the UK
laminitis.  I guess that 'founder' is an old-fashioned name for
it which has been retained in the USA.

I expect you will know what laminitis is.

Chris Green
From: 9105MAXW%UCSBVM.BITNET@cornellc.cit.cornell.edu (Patrick S. Maxwell)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Donna Griffiths
Date: 27 Sep 92 19:08:05 GMT
Reply-To: equestrians@world.std.com
Organization: BBN news/mail gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: news.bbn.com


Donna, I tried to answer you directly but had a terrible time of it.
My mother is a professor of genetics at CSU Northridge.  I don't want
to release her address to the whole list, but if you write me personally
I'll give it to you.  I'm pretty sure she'd have more than enough information
for you.

Hope I help,

Patrick S. Maxwell
From: liana.gamber@kingsp.gwinnett.com (Liana Gamber)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: BREYER HORSES
Date: 29 Sep 92 17:44:00 GMT
Reply-To: liana.gamber@kingsp.gwinnett.com (Liana Gamber)
Organization: The King's Palace BBS * Canton, GA * (404)781-8435

I am only 12 years old and like all things about horses. I am in my
first year of riding lessons, and I really enjoy it. I would also like
to have some Breyer Horses to decorate my room. Does anyone know who
might have a catalog with a large selection of these figures and where I
might get one?

Liana Gamber
Atlanta, GA
                                                              
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: 6175190@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Subject: Re: 8 Re: sentementality
Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space Company, Inc.
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 92 21:04:21 GMT

#
#Now the hard question.  I do not want to start any flame wars but if I have
#to put her down, do I have the vet do it or do I sell her to the meat
#market and get some money out of her.  I know this sounds cold and I really
#agonize over it.  I hear horrible stories of how horses are treated on their
#way to the meat market, then I hear other people say the horrible stories are
#just rumors and horses are not treated that way.  How do you know?
#
#Like I said, I do not want to start a flame war, but does anyone out there
#have any thoughts on this subject?
#
Well, Linda, I hate to be negative, but I'd believe the horror stories.
People who are into using horses for food, even knowing they have probably
had a lot of medicine clearly marked "not to be used on animals intended
for food." Probably don't have a lot of tenderness toward their "cargo
for money."

Is your mare breedable? Is she registered? I just gave my 19 year-old mare
to a breeder who has admired her for over 10 years. I couldn't afford to
keep 3 horses anymore and she is "off" enough of the time that I didn't
feel right selling her as a riding horse. I know she will be well cared
for and loved. She does have excellent bloodlines and she is currently
babysitting a pair of weanling fillys who think she's the best thing
since Mama left!

Another option I had considered was a riding for the handicap program.
Of course, finding a home when they are on death's door is pretty tough.
And I have to admit, I'm glad I won't be the one to have to decide to
have her put down when the time comes. But I do have 2 others and that
is one of the responsibilities we accept as animal owners.

Best of luck to you.
From: lcasey@uoft02.utoledo.edu
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: Saddlebreds and Shows
Date: 27 Sep 92 08:54:57 EST
Organization: University of Toledo, Computer Services

Well said, Linda.  I have owned a wonderful saddlebred gelding for 15 years.
Sue Bishop has him now, where he'll show some folks at age 19 what showing
is all about!

Leigh
From: VBENJAM@uga.cc.uga.edu (Virginia Benjamin)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: RE: Scrambling in the trailer
Date: 2 Oct 1992 17:46:54 -0400
Organization: BBN news/mail gateway
Reply-To: equestrians@world.std.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: news.bbn.com

I wonder if putting your scrambler on the inside stall of the trailer (ie
on the driver's side) might diminish her scrambling.
It did help years ago when we put my friend's Arabx in the left stall and my
much bigger Saddlebred in the outside one (this is NOT the way the books say
to do it) but Ibn was almost stone quiet after we switched him.
Course it might have had something to do with my driving too (curves in the
road to the left and left turns were especially difficult for Ibn in the
outside position  even though I really tried to go slowly) but after the
switch there was no scrambling by either horse.
If you know anyone with a stock trailer that you could borrow, you might try
putting your mare in it and let her stand across the trailer to see if she
rode differently (ie with less anxiety) in it.
Once I volunteered to carry an acquaintance's horse about 20 miles from one
farm to another...the young (3-year-old) filly had never been in a trailer,
off the farm, etc. and just as we started pulling out (yes, we got her in in
about 15 minutes) the farm stallion started running the fenceline beside us
and she just went bonkers...the whole rig just rocked and rolled down the long
driveway.
I just decided to keep on trucking down the road instead of stopping to check
on her when their driveway met the road and she was amazingly quiet for the
whole rest of the trip...I could see her head in the window so I knew she was
still standing...When we arrived at our destination, I found out why she had
suddenly become so quiet.  My lightweight mat had been pawed right up under
her belly (in kind of a bell-shaped curve) and she probably thought she was
straddling some weird type of fence...
Good luck with your mare...maybe it will just be a matter of time before she
relaxes.

virginia
athens, ga.
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: lpk@cs.brown.edu (Leslie Pack Kaelbling)
Subject: Job Wanted: Stable Manager or Groom
Organization: Department of Computer Science, Brown University
Distribution: ma
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 15:48:20 GMT


A friend of mine is looking for a job as a stable manager or groom in
the Boston MetroWest area (sorry if you're reading this from
California; I tried to restrict the distribution, but it doesn't
always work).  She has lots of experience grooming and riding in
hunter-type barns, but is open to anything.

If you have such a position, or know someone who does, call
Monika Kroon at 617-643-6063.

Thanks,
Leslie Kaelbling
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: blythedr@infonode.ingr.com (Dennis Blythe)
Subject: LAST RIDE
Keywords: LAST
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 07:27:44 GMT


  I just recieved my issue of horse illustared yesterday. I read
an article that has disturbed me greatly. It spoke of how horses are 
sent to slaughter houses in OUR COUNTRY. Apparently the U.S.A.
considers horses as most livestock, and therefore is transported
as most livestock. I dont draw any line when it comes to any animal 
being treated inhumanely. However in summary the article says: South
America is a hellhole for all equines. The cruelities are horrendous
They dont look at horses as a deserving work animal that should be 
painlessly killed. Spain celebrates fiestas by cutting off horses
ears with crude pocketknives. Their slaughterhouses kill horses in
part by taking a sword and severing it down the spine so they cannot
move, but they're feeling everything. It goes on to tell a story of 
44 horses bound to a slaughterhouse, A stuffed double decker cattle 
truck.( it shows pictures of the truck. sad!) It ended up that the 
cargo was so heavy that it lost contol and crashed, killing the 
drivers and 40 horses. It showed pictures of
the scarred surviving horse that was rescued and given to a 
appreciative owner. The sad thing is the horses are double stacked
on a 2 level stock trailer not made for the height of a horse.
So they end up defficating on the other horses bellow not to mention
other abuses that were mentioned in the magazine( eyes being poked out
not giving any water, being clubbed and sometimes they wire their 
mouths shut. 10% of them die being transported. In less than a week these 
horses end up on European dinner plates.

  Nearly 500,000 horses spent their final days on earth in hot,
crowded death transport to the slaughter house. The demand for horsemeat
in Europe and Japan is spiraling upward. To many horses are worth more
dead than alive. Most of these horses are from auctions and some 
are stolen.
 
HOW TO HELP: 
 1. Write you congressional rep.complaining about the lack of equine 
   transport regulations and the need for amending live export laws.

 2. Visit local auctions to observe and photograph conditions there.
   Make a sworn statement documenting the conditions, forward that
   along with copies of any photos or tapes, to the coalition.
   This will convince legislators that things are in bad shape and
   that reforms need to be made.

B
 3. Persons wishing to support the coalition may do so by becoming
   a member. Annual membership cost is $15 a year for individuals,
   $25 dollars for families, and includes updates and published
   newsletters.

 For petitions or info about the coalition, contact the Coalition
 Against the Horse Slaughter Trade, PO Box 907, penngrove, CA 94951
 or call (707)762-3644, evenings. 

Newsgroups: rec.equestrian