HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ah@mdcsc.UUCP (Alexander Herrera)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Alcoholics Anonymous pp 320-321
Date: 6 Apr 92 14:19:51 GMT

Alcoholics Anonymous: The Story of How Many Thousands of Men and
Women Have Recovered from Alcoholism: NEW AND REVISED EDITION,
Alcoholics Anonymous World Services, Inc., New York City, 1955.

This is the second edition of the book Alcoholics Anonymous. To the
best of my knowledge, this book is in the public domain. Therefore,
copying this book is not a violation of copyright.

Alex Herrera
uunet!mdcsc!ah
=============================
pages 320-321

    RUM, RADIO AND REBELLION (part 4 of 12)

I was living in a small room on West 53rd Street right off Fifth
Avenue, when I met a young lady who eventually was responsible for
altering my entire way of living. She was studying fashion design, was
living in the same rooming house, and was from my home town of
Cleveland. I made little headway in my first few meetings with her.
She was intent on her studies, and kept her distance. By persistence
and salesmanship I managed to see more and more of my new friend, and
because of her sympathetic nature she tolerated my company. Her
influence and companionship managed to lessen my drinking to some
degree. After several months of acquaintance I asked her to marry me,
but was politely refused. I asked this question weekly for the next
couple of years.

In January 1938, I had the opportunity to go to northern Vermont to
manage a small daytime radio station that was up against it
financially, and was about to fold its antenna. The challenge
intrigued me; also it was another opportunity to run away from myself
and the "fast life of the big city." Once again I asked my girl to
marry me and join me in this new venture. At this time, however, she
had an opportunity to go to Salt Lake City on a new project for the
government, but she did promise me that if I would curtail my drinking
and buckle down to hard work she would give serious consideration to
my latest proposal and maybe join me at a later date when I got
settled. With new hope in my heart and new resolutions I set off for
Vermont.
From: Carl.Rosenberg@p4.f22.n140.z1.fidonet.org (Carl Rosenberg)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: coping with being "just a friend" Part II - The happy ending
Date: 6 Apr 92 03:56:52 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:140/22.4 - Benden Weyr, Saskatoon Sask


In my previous post just a few hours ago I described how frustrated I was by 
that fact that a woman would travel 4 hours to visit me but we were "just 
friends."

After putting myself in her shoes, I realized that this was a misunderstanding.  
She had wanted to come to my place in the country to relax, she had stated that 
before she came.  When she left I felt confused because I sensed that she was 
disapointed and I felt rejected.  

If I were her I'd be disapointed too, she comes here to relax and what does she 
get?  this friend who is confused about her presence, can't figure out where he 
stands in relation to her and ends up being depressed and disapointed by the way 
he acts towards her.  It's sort of like "I come here to relax with a friend and 
I find out that he says "Yea ok let's be friends" but then he doesn't act that 
way! He wants to get to know me and it appears alterior motives are playing here 
- he's just another guy that's after me!  This pisses me off!"

Looking at it this way really helps me get a handle on things - I can see her as 
another human being - not as a woman that's playing with me.  It makes sense and 
I know how to form my expectations for future situations. This is good learning 
stuff!

Again, thanks for listening.
C.R.
 
 




--  
Carl Rosenberg - via FidoNet node 1:140/22
UUCP: ...!access.usask.ca!weyr!22.4!Carl.Rosenberg
Domain: Carl.Rosenberg@p4.f22.n140.z1.fidonet.org
Standard Disclaimers Apply...
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: moy@acf5.NYU.EDU (Gloria J. Moy)
Subject: my sponsor fired me!
Organization: New York University
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 14:47:00 GMT

 

	My sponsor fired me last evening. I am coming up on seven years
clean and sober, and she fired me because "she can't sponsor someone who doesn'tgot to meetings". I do go to meetings, but not all the time, or not according
to the way she goes to meetings. I currently work six days a week, go to
grad school two nights a week, and am really busy. I had called my sponsor
last night to talk to her about ending our relationship as sponor/sponsee anywayas i felt it really wasn't working out very well anymore. In a way, she was 
saying that when I got sick back in november and it was "blamed on my not
going to enough meetings." Clinical depression is not something that happens
when one doesn't get to enough meetings, in fact it was probably there festeringinside me. my depression is now under control, my life is slowly back on track,
and i didn't use or drink today.
	I guess the point of this post is to share this with you and my feelingsas well. I'm kind of pissed off that she couldn't be straight with me. It was
playing telephone tag. Got to the point where my calls were not returned, and itis really hard to have two way communication. Anyway, its done...I will continueto work on my sobriety...one day at a time.

thanks for letting me share.

-gloria
From: ronan@codon3 (Karen Ronan;161 GPBB;x2-0884)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Re: coping with being "just a friend"
Date: 7 Apr 92 18:39:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: agate.rsq8iINNbpb
Organization: University of California
NNTP-Posting-Host: codon3.berkeley.edu

In article <1473.29E13ABE@weyr.fidonet.org> Carl.Rosenberg@p4.f22.n140.z1.fidonet.org (Carl Rosenberg) writes:
>
>The feelings I'm afraid to acknowledge is that of infatuation. I've gone through    
>this before, when I loose sight of the humanity of a woman and idolizer her and 
>all I want to do is marry her.  She's a wonderful person and I'm honored to be 
>her friend and I hope she thinks likewise. But by the end of the weekend I was 
>quickly loosing my senses - it seemed that everything she said was really neat 
>and it matched my attitudes or the attitudes I try to maintain and this all 
>boiled down to - wow! This REALLY attracts me!  This added with her physical 
>presence - she's not shabby to look at - has reignited my romantic fancies.
>
>What is confusing to me, is the fact that she drove 4 hours one way to be with 
>me this weekend.  Now if I were going to visit someone that was 4 hours away I'd 
>be pretty damn interested in them.  I've gone that far to visit friends yes, but 

In the book WOMEN WHO LOVE TOO MUCH by Robin Norwood there is
a lot of information about infatuations, instant attractions,
why we feel these powerful connections, etc.  It's a very eye-
opening book.

There are psychological reasons why we feel strong pulls to
a person sexually, physically, emotionally, although our
rational mind says "no."  Our heart does NOT say no, does it?

What does your heart want/need?
-Karen

"Ubi caritas et amor				Karen Ronan
Deus ibi est."					ronan@codon2.berkeley.edu
(Where there is compassion and love,
God is.)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: crystal@glia.biostr.washington.edu (crystal)
Subject: Sorry about that... ;<
Summary: if you think you can, or you think you can't - YOU'RE RIGHT
Keywords: sponsor followup
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 00:50:14 GMT

I am one of those who used "self will" in my recovery.
I did NOT use professional help.
I can't stand the 12-step religions.
I read books, I looked to my subconscious, I became aware of the patterns
around me and in my life.
Within ONE year, I came from suicide attempt to discovery of my sexual abuse
core memory to the feelings of normalcy I have now. My life is improving on
a daily basis, some things ACTUALLY FIXING THEMSELVES without my help.
 
Yes, if you BELIEVE you can do it on your own, You CAN do it on your own!
(Don't listen to those folks who call you nuts for trying your own self-will.
If you want something bad enough, you will acheive it)
 
We are not given a wish without the means to make it come true - Richard Bach.
  
Books that I used:
Your Erroneous Zones - Wayne Dyer
Way of the Peaceful Warrior - Dan Millman
Illusions - Richard Bach
Bridge Across Forever - Richard Bach
One - Richard Bach
Keeping the Love you Find - Harville Hendrix
  
I used them in that order.  You self-willed people might want to give it a try.
I'm re-reading Peaceful Warrior now and I'm spooked about how everything
stated has come true in my life where before they were merely Understandings,
they are now "realizations".
  
Forgive the messyness of this post.  If it doesn't work, I won't have wasted
time tidying.  If it does work,  Oh...well...cest la vie!  ;>
  
Cheers!
Crystal
  ;>
From: debrag@mattys.EBay.Sun.COM (Debra Giberson)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Using Dreams
Date: 14 Apr 92 15:59:57 GMT
Reply-To: debrag@mattys.EBay.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: mattys.ebay.sun.com


How come everytime I try and quit smoking I start to have
using dreams. I start using the dreams as an excuse not
to quit smoking. I REALLY want to quit! Got any Input?

Debra


I know it's
hard to admit
that we can't
 do it alone.
  I've been
  there...
and now I'm
here to help
in anyway
  I can.
From: debrag@mattys.EBay.Sun.COM (Debra Giberson)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Day 3
Date: 16 Apr 92 22:05:38 GMT
Reply-To: debrag@mattys.EBay.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: mattys.ebay.sun.com

Day 3; Still Kicking; Not Smoking

Debra
From: nielsen@math.duke.edu (Jeanne Nielsen)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Fear and indecision
Date: 13 Apr 92 17:11:15 GMT
Organization: Duke University; Durham, N.C.
Originator: nielsen@whitney.math.duke.edu

I've been having a really hard time lately.  I've got to make a final 
decision in the next few days that I don't want to have to make.  It
essentially boils down to the best career move vs. the best move for my
personal life.  Either way I go, I'm giving up something that there's
much potential for me to regret years down the road.  This has been in
the works for over a year, and I've had a strong feeling all year that
the personal situation is the more important factor to me, and several
things have happened in the last few months that makes deciding that
way seem the most balanced thing to do, and I've more or less decided,
and told lots of people what I'd decided, etc.  But when it comes
right down to it, I can't seem to bring myself to fill out the forms
I need to fill out to finalize the decision and send them in.  I'm
absolutely terrified that I'm doing the wrong thing, ruining my life,
that I'm giving the wrong things priority - basically that I'm not as
capable as other people of making this decision wisely.  Of course
the other alternative is equally, if not more frightening, so I don't
think this means I should change my decision, either.  I think I just
want someone to tell me that it's okay, that this won't affect my 
career opportunities, that I can have everything I think is important.
I know life doesn't work that way, really, and that everyone has to 
make tough decisions like this, but I think this is the first time 
I've had to make one with such a significant impact on the rest of my
life.  

Just wanted to get some of this off my chest - thanks for listening!

				-Jeanne

-- 
   ***********************************************************************

Jeanne Nielsen
nielsen@math.duke.edu
From: 1k1mgm@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (Christopher Gunn)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Re: Stop drinking step?
Date: 15 Apr 92 10:09:04 CDT
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

In article <1992Apr14.160408.28242@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, joni@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (joni.dunlap) writes:
> In article <schmitt.703255699@convex.convex.com> schmitt@convex.com (Herb Schmitt) writes:

>>All he asked was: "What step do you stop drinking"!....."You all say that
>>the primary purpose of this program is to stop drinking, then you come out
>>with 12 steps that say nothing <literally> about stopping drinking!"

There's a book out (Hazelden?) with a title of something like _Step Zero_,
on the subject how any particular alcoholic bottom (of the many we
manage to have) becomes *the* bottom and one comes to the conclusion
that this drinking business just ain't working anymore.  Haven't read
the book.  My own personal formulation of Step Zero is, "In case we
didn't notice before, the joke's on US."

Stopping drinking through force of circumstances or accident probably
happens before Step One, else drunk won't have enough marginal clarity
to DO Step One.

Stopping drinking by personal choice happens during Step Two.  If you
don't have any hope, a perfectly rational follow-up to Step One is
suicide, fast or slow (liquid variety preferred...).

Committment to sobriety is part of Step Three, and sets the stage
for being relieved of the desire to drink, which (relief) happens
often enough that I'm not shy about telling newcomers to keep an
eye out for it, and that when it happens they'll understand why
the steps are NOT about not drinking.  (Of course, the desire to
drink plagues some people for a long time no matter how hard they
work the steps;  there are obviously biological and social pulls to
drink that have to heal on their own timetable.)

Crusty old-timer around here often says something to the effect
that doing steps one to three will keep you sober and miserable,
which is why there are nine more.

I remember reading a study (can't cite exactly;  I think it was in
one of Stephanie Brown's books) where in a limited sample (a few
hundred people), the average length of time people attended AA
before hanging it up completely was something like 2.5 years.
It obviously isn't *necessary* to stop drinking to assimilate
enough of the program that you *can*.  However, this is the
'meaner, harder' way, and can lead to a miserable 'head full of
AA, belly full of booze' existence.

Good friend, who died of a heart attack at age 42 about a year ago,
after 17 years sobriety, used to say at meetings:  "I don't understand
[:-)] why some people are so determined to cycle back and forth
between the last of their drinking and the beginning of their
recovery.  I didn't think *either* of those was much fun...."

Good luck with your newcomer.

Kit G., Univ. of Kansas
From: ronan@codon3 (Karen Ronan;161 GPBB;x2-0884)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Re: Flakiness...
Date: 16 Apr 92 14:31:25 GMT
Article-I.D.: agate.sk33tINN4r8
Organization: University of California
NNTP-Posting-Host: codon3.berkeley.edu

In article <kup84kINNpdi@male.EBay.Sun.COM> drh@spock.EBay.Sun.COM writes:
>I have a sponsee.  Let's say her/his name is "Chris".  Chris is involved
>with someone, let's say their name is "Lynn" (notice the use of non-gender
>names).
>[details about them deleted]
>
>Your opinion would be appreciated.  Chris really likes Lynn, but isn't sure
>if he/she is right or wrong.  I am tempted to tell Chris that Lynn is a flake
>and that Lynn is being a jerk.  I don't want to overwhelm Chris with another
>opinion, unless it's "group conchince" (sp?).  Chris has read so many books on
>Co-Dependancy, and talked to so many therapists that Chris isn't sure at all
>owho is right.

Dear David,
  I would *highly* recommend that you find this pamphlet people
have mentioned which describes what a sponsor/sponsee relationship
is supposed to be like (I haven't read it but others have praised
it). There is also a very good book called _Becoming Naturally
Therapeutic_ by Jacquelyn Small which is all about lay people helping
friends & family sort through issues, by describing techniques
that therapists use.

   You have described Chris & Lynn in such minute detail that I
wonder if you are getting rather involved and taking sides. You
don't know Lynn (I assume) and therefore you are hearing one side
of the story and seem to want to offer a judgment to Chris which
will tell him "who is right."  I think Miss Manners might have
something to say about the situation, but apart from that, the
issue is really **how does Chris feel about all this**.  You can't
tell him how to feel.  You can help him by listening and supporting
his efforts to sort out his feelings and his decisions **himself**.
Offering an opinion or judgment just feeds his codependency.

   My 2 cents, Take what you need & leave the rest.
-Karen
ronan@codon2.berkeley.edu

"Red lotus incense fades on
The jewelled curtain."
From: drh@spock.EBay.Sun.COM (Live Long and Prosper)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Flakiness...
Date: 15 Apr 92 21:31:00 GMT
Reply-To: drh@spock.EBay.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: spock.ebay.sun.com

I have a sponsee.  Let's say her/his name is "Chris".  Chris is involved
with someone, let's say their name is "Lynn" (notice the use of non-gender
names).

Chris has a complaint that Lynn is "flaky".  It seems that Lynn thinks of
her/himself as a "free spirit", and thinks of Chris as "rigid".  When
they have a date for Saturday night at 7:00, it's quite common for Lynn
to cancell within the last few hours.  Chris feels hurt by this because
he/she could have made other plans (a trip to the beach, plans with other
friends etc.).  Sometimes Lynn calls and leaves a message.  Chris tries
to return the call several times (Chris loves Lynn and really wants to make
the connection), around midnight Chris realizes that Lynn isn't going to
return the return calls, even though Chris asked for a return.  Chris
thinks of this behavior as "time abuse".

One specific, recent example is that Chris has had the same work schedule
for the three years they have known each other, 9 to 5, + 0-90 minutes to
read News, etc.  Lynn called Chris at home at 6:15, minutes before Chris
got home to say that it was Lynn's day off (Lynn's schedule is always "up
in the air").  Chris felt excited at the prospect of seeing Lynn, and tried
several times through the evening to reach Lynn (around a meeting, and a
video).  Chris felt hurt and frustrated around midnight because Lynn dis-
appeared and didn't ruturn the call till the next day.  When Chris finally
reached Lynn the next day, Lynn kept saying over and over "I don't see
any problem, I didn't do anything wrong".  Chris felt that Lynn could
have 1) called Chris at work (Chris has voice mail, and was available untill
6:00) 2) not called at all, or 3) tried calling again thinking that Chris
might be doing the same.

Your opinion would be appreciated.  Chris really likes Lynn, but isn't sure
if he/she is right or wrong.  I am tempted to tell Chris that Lynn is a flake
and that Lynn is being a jerk.  I don't want to overwhelm Chris with another
opinion, unless it's "group conchince" (sp?).  Chris has read so many books on
Co-Dependancy, and talked to so many therapists that Chris isn't sure at all
who is right.

---
David...  Conformity is Suicide -R.W. Emerson- 
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: puckett@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov (Jim Puckett)
Subject: Re: Sorry about that (I'll figure out how to post yet! *grin*)
Organization: NASA/MSFC
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 13:28:06 GMT

>5) Not everyone can use the 12-step method. I can't. That doesn't mean it
>   doesn't work. It does work for millions.  It's just not for me. When I
>   hear people say "I've been in this group for 6 years and it works!" I have
>   to wonder how many more years will they be there before they can stop the
>   group (a compulsion in itself).  I did it in one.

Congratulations!

Please don't dig your hole too deep. Most of us were atheist or agnostic
before we got to our respective 12-step programs. But we reached a point
where we hurt bad enough to be willing to believe that there was a Power
greater than ourselves.

You say that you did it in one year. And as long as it lasts, that's fine.
But if you ever find something missing, you might like to try another
way - with other people.

Love and service,

jim p.



-- 
Jim Puckett    NTI    puckett@freedom.msfc.nasa.gov     
Huntsville,AL (205)544-8457

*****!Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty!*****
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: moy@acf5.NYU.EDU (Gloria J. Moy)
Subject: Re: DRINK NOW!
Organization: New York University
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 18:56:00 GMT


There certainly is something called recovery. But bear in mind my friend,
its for those who want it, not those who need it!


Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: david@perle.UUCP (David L.)
Subject: One Day At A Time In Al-Anon
Organization: Perle Systems Ltd.
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 16:32:08 GMT

From "ONE DAY AT A TIME IN AL-ANON", copyright 1973, by 
Al-Anon Family Group Headquarters, Inc.  Reprinted by 
permission of Al-Anon Family Group Headquarters, Inc.

----------------------------------------------------------

APRIL 16

   When I can finally persuade myself to let go of
a problem that has been tormenting me, solutions
begin to unfold that I never dreamed were pos-
sible. This should convince me that my human
understanding does have limits - that there are
things I can't figure out by myself. Only then I
will let go - and trust to a Higher Power for help.
   Such an experience - seeing things happen
that I did not bring to pass - should prove to me
that another person's actions and fate are not in
my hands. The sooner I accept this, the sonner
good things will being to unfold in my own life.

TODAY'S REMINDER

   To "Let go and let God" is the way we find peace of
mind. Our stubborn self-will can only hinder the
working out of our problems. If I really want to be free
to build a satisfying life for myself, I must first release
the alcoholic from my efforts to direct and control.

       "May I always keep in the forefront of
	my mind that I am not all-wise and all-
	powerful. Only God is that - and it is
	on Him that I must rely."
From: puckett@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov (Jim Puckett)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Re: Comments, misc
Date: 16 Apr 92 12:41:32 GMT
Distribution: alt
Organization: NASA/MSFC

suhre@meltami.dsd.trw.com writes:

>I never thought I would become a Big Book Thumper. G-d help me and all
>of you if this comes to pass. Here is a quote from the book Alcoholics
>Anonymous.

Aw, c'mon  Alex - you're _posting_ the darn thing! B-) that's about as
thumper as it gets...(-8

besides, what's wrong with BBT's? (Big Book Thumpers) Some of my best
friends are BBT's. Of course, I wouldn't want my sister to _marry_ one,
{B-)!!!

by the way, what's wrong with your machine? I'm assuming something is wrong,
since Maurice is posting your stuff (Hi Maurice!)

Love and service,

jim p.

-- 
Jim Puckett    NTI    puckett@freedom.msfc.nasa.gov     
Huntsville,AL (205)544-8457

*****!Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty!*****
From: starshine@igc.org
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Re: RULES....
Date: 6 Apr 92 10:58:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: igc.1309900038
Nf-ID: #R:1992Apr3.222713.4045@gumby.dsd.t:-212003410:cdp:1309900038:000:66
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!starshine    Apr  6 03:58:00 1992


Hear! Hear! for Mary Otto's response.  Excellent Mary.

Starshine