From: bill@kean.ucs.mun.ca (Bill Garland)
Subject: Re: The Science of KriyaREAD/NEW/FOLLOWUP
Organization: Memorial University. St.John's Nfld, Canada
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 18:43:33 GMT

In article <1992Dec05.234327.10945@crash>, classics@crash.cts.com 
 (Baruch Schwartz) writes:
> 			The Original Kriya Science
> 		(How to Attain eternal Realization of the ultimate Self)
> 
> 				The Message
> 				-----------
> 
> 	Can thirst be quenched by merely shouting the word "water"? 
> Certainly not! ... etc

Well, upon first glance, I would have to venture a mighty cry of
BULLSHIT to this entire post. I will hesitate however, since (1)
I am not familiar with the culture of sci.philosophy.meta, and (3)
perhaps I have been reading too much sci.skeptic where instant
flaming is the order of the day, and (2) I am not well enough
versed in the writings of philosophers and others to put up 
flame-proof arguments showing all this crap to be just that,
and (4) maybe I just can't count, anyway.

I have in the past ventured to flame things only to regret having
done so, and sometimes I have included a word or two that I don't
normally like to use, like "bullshit" etc.

The natural skeptic in me might be arguing with my doubtful self,
in a dialog that goes "Well, how do you _know_ it is bullshit? and
why are you so _sure_ that all this mystical easternism sanskrit
meditation yoga breathing kundalini yaba daba doo shit is _not_
the real stuff...

Be all that as it may, let me make one or two comments about 
one or two things.
...
> 	Can a person learn how to swim simply by talking to the instructor 
> while standing on land? 

Take the pebble from my hand, grasshopper.
 
> 	"Dissolve thoughts or the mind (the restless breath) in the very 
> Source by any means."

Huh? Misprint? Typos?

> 	Realization is relative when the seeker tries to realize something 
> outside himself without ***first*** realizing the truth behind himself. 
> Relative realization, or relative knowledge, arises from relative existences.

Relatively meaningless garble. Doesn't he realize this?

> 	Inquire who is the knower. When the seeker knows himself (the 
> knower), this is absolute Knowledge from One Existence, which is both 
> subject and object of knowledge.

Mystical gobbledeygook.
...
> 	Absolute Realization is simply being the ultimate Self spontaneously.

Absolute realization that this means nothing is spontaneously upon us.

> 	What is love? It is Oneness between the seeking self (son) and the 
> ultimate Self (father) ***within***. When one achieves it within, one 
> knows that the whole world is the reflection of his self.

Wait till the radical pc feminists get a hold of this one.

> 	This is the only right way to grow into divine Love and attain eternal 
> Realization.
> 
>    "... O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I 
> had with thee before the world was." John 17:5

One of my religious friends keeps trying to get me to read the book of 
John. Perhaps I will, one of these millenia, when I have finished all
my other things to do... However, if this is typical, it wont be _this_ one.

> 	"God is a spirit [the word Spirit comes the Latin word Spiritus which 
> means "breath". So it can safely be said that God is a definite state of 
                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
HORSEFEATHERS. Wrong. Nope. BEEP. uh uh. nay. nyet. nix. Not on your life.

> breath, that is, Tranquil Breath]: and they that worship him must worship 
> him in spirit [through Breath, that is through the practice of Pranayam or 
> Kriya with the help of Sthirabayu, or "tranquil breath"] and in truth 
> [Tranquility]." John 4:24

Is this a mixture of John and Bagavadimania ?

> 	"The kingdom of God [Tranquil Breath] is ***within*** you [inside the 
> physical body in Oneness between the seeking self and the ultimate Self of 
> the seeker]." - Luke 17:21

oh shit. I'm not going to comment on every line here...   
...
> 	Truth (Satya) is permanent, hence its Realization must be eternal.

Truth is a many-headed word that has lost much of its meaning, since 
each and every one of us will have a different interpretation of it.
It is better to use 'honesty' than 'truth'.

> 	Above all, be true to yourself: Be one with the ultimate Self.

Willie S. finally made it into the dogma, eh? Even though he is misquoted!

> 			The Path
> 			--------
> 
> 	The Kriya Path is: Attaining eternal Tranquility by practice of 
> Pranayam and continuing meditations on the Formless, i.e. Tranquility.

As Tony Robbins might say, "Picture yourself in a state of eternal 
tranquility. What is your posture? what do you see? what do you feel?
What are the submodalities? There. You've got it. Simple, eh! Now,
do you realize that you can put yourself in that place anytime you wish?
...

> 	Increasing the practice of Kriya, doing all works without expectations 
> for the results thereof, the path aims at achieving Tranquility, observing 
> everytjing which is revealed in Yonimudra (Beatific Inner Revelation Kriya), 
> and terminating all desired expectations, renouncing every desire before it 
> originates, being freed from all thoughts.

Being aimless, without goals, with nowhere to go, and no reason to go there
...
> 	It is meditating on the thoughtless state of Consciousness, especially 
> holding that state of Consciousness where there is no sun, moon, light of 
> fire; still everything is seen eternally.

Thoughtless consciousness? Maybe my problem with this is understanding that
I am not supposed to understand that understanding is not being supposed
to understand that understanding this is limited to the masters of the
universe to whom you will now pay due homage and give all your money.
...
> 	One bright, dazzling star of Consciousness is seen very secretly in 
> between the eyebrows, and the unmanifested state of Consciousness is 
> revealed.

But this is thoughtless, so don't think about it.
...
> 			The Keys of the Kriya Path
> 			------------------------
> 
> 	1. To attain the tranquil state of breath in natural course by 
> practicing Pranayam.

Pra-na-yam, pra-na-yam, prana all the way.
Oh what fun we pra-na-yam with a ding dong in the hay-yay.
Pra-na-yeam...

> 	2. To see in Yonimudra.

To boldly go where no man has gone before.

> 	3. Placing the tongue in the head [Talabya Kriya].

All right you guys. Anyone whose tongue is in their cheek better
get it back into your heads right now, or you're in biiiig trouble.

> 	4. Holding onto the divine Spot and listening to the sound of Om 
> [Brahmayonimudra].

Is this like the ticklish spot?

> 	5. Holding the bright star at the forehead from the throat.

As my friend Andre might say, "Qu'est-ce que c'est le phoque?"

> 			Requirements for Kriya
> 			---------------------
> 
> 	1. The person must be honest and not a liar.

This is a requirement for many things.

> 	2. The person should not smoke and drink.

Good advice. No chewing gum either, and no beards. Comb your hair.

> 	3. The person should read some portion of the Bhagavad Gita every day.

ok. The person should also read a page of Atlas Shrugged and 
A Brief History of Time and write two letters to the editor and
not pick his nose in public.

> 	4. The person should lose self-importance to destroy his or her ego.

AHAH. Now we get into it. This altruistic mystical claptrap is probably
what motivated me to reply to this post in the first place, exposing myself
to incoming slings and arrows of outraged mystical followers from all
around the globe. It leads to the 'truth' of the matter - they want you to
give up your self to them... i.e. the mystics who usurp and drain others
because they are too lazy to earn a living by themselves and seek to be
supported by real value producers. 
...
> 	6. The person should sit a little lower than his or her Gurudev or 
> Master's seat and offer everything to him.

Yeah, that Master wants it all, to be sure.

> 	7. The person should practice Kriyas every day in strict accordance 
> with the instructions personally received from his or her Gurudev.

And who instructed his Gurudev's Gurudev?
And who instructed his Gurudev's Gurudev's Gurudev?
And who instructed his Gurudev's Gurudev's Gurudev's Gurudev?
And who instructed his Gurudev's Gurudev's Gurudev's Gurudev's Gurudev?
And who instructed his Gurudev's Gurudev's Gurudev's Gurudev's Gurudev's 
Gurudev's Gurudev's Gurudev's Gurudev's Gurudev's Gurudev's Gurudev's
Gurudev's Gurudev's Gurudev's Gurudev's Gurudev's Gurudev's Gurudev?

> 			How to be in the Path
> 			---------------------
> 
> 	The ultimate Self, being pure Consciousness, is beyond sensation, 
> concept, thought, and intellect. A definite mode of action to make the mind 
> inward and dissolve it is called Kriya.

Well, I guess that ends this discussion. There it is, gone!

> 	The Kriya path is the righteous way to realize the ultimate Self.
> 
> 	Havig true Kriya depends on three points:
> 
> 	1. The initiate must receive Kriya personally from the mouth of the 
> Master.

See above for questions about the Master's master.
...
> 	"Kriya of the inner letters" means vibrations of inner sound (Pm/Aum. 
> Amen) resonating from the ultimate Self.

How about Boogie Woogie? Or, better still, Om Pah Pah Om Pah Pah.

> 	When the Master utters a letter, the vibrations of the sound of the 
> letter come directly from the enlightened state of mystic Energy 

Aw Shucks. and I thought it was from the larynx.

> (Kundalini), and penetrates the ear of the initiate, resulting in true 
> initiation to the Kriya path.

When the greater god of goombah tells you to jump, the image of a 
jumping bean will cross the great divide of the minds coming into
your consciousness with a whalloping thump that lifts your muscles
in a most coordinated way to being in the state of jumpingness.
...
> 	Thus following the vibration and inner Sound to transcend concepts, 
> thoughts, and the intellect, the initiate can find the trye Path.

So you transcend all that is real and objective and there to be measured
and tested and analyzed and come to the place of the wishy washy by 
stream of thoughtlessness moving in your mind by the flow of the 
goombalinishnessaramalamadingdong.
..
> 	Unfortunately, many seekers do not know this subtle point and they 
> try to understand the advice through preconceived concepts, thoughts, and 
> meanings and find the intellectual path which is the negative way.

Yeah man, have we negatives found the way! Banish mysticism!
...

> 	".. Except a man be born again [attain the state of tranquil Breath, 
> thereby, vibrations and rhythyms of inner Light and inner Sound], he cannot 
> see the kingdom of God." John 3:3

This is just great. Putting interpretations [in brakets] to tell you
how to read [and interpret] the words.

> 	Initiation is essential. It must be received personally and in a 
> righteous 
> way.
> 			List of Original Kriyas
> 			--------------------

More gobbledeygook.

> 			The Original Kriya Science at a Glance
> 			(The Psycho-physical Discipline)
> 			----------------------------------
> 
> 	The eightfolds:
...

> 
> The Sanskrit Classics
> Copyright 1992, all rights reserved

Well, not one to be ignoring all the cosmic truths in and about our
thoughtless consciousnesses, please sir would you be so kind as to
enlighten me about why I should not be making these somewhat 
disparaging remarks about your kriya stuff?

I mean, like, wow, man, like, you know, this is, like, _groovy_ man.

Why am I wasting my time on this?

Sorry folks. I only meant to lurk around a while to see if I
wanted to read this group, and here I go disrupting a 
mystic's way of life.

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