HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dprlcm@inetg1.ARCO.COM (Larry Morley)
Subject: Re: Real Estate News Summary, Part 128
Organization: ARCO Oil and Gas Company
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 14:37:25 GMT

In article <4jkqc6_@lynx.unm.edu>, pkrause@triton.unm.edu (Paul Krause
CIRT) writes:
> In article <1992Nov16.220048.17388@adobe.com> hamachi@adobe.com (Gordon
> Hamachi) writes:
> >Real Estate News Summary, Part 128, October, 1992
> >
> >     rental housing out of the reach of more and more households. 
> Despite high
> >     rental vacancy rates and weak economic growth, rents stand near a
> 20-year
> >     peak.  Rental costs as a percentage of renter income rose above 30%
> for
> >     only the third time in 25 years.in the Northeast and 4.3% in the
> Midwest
> >     but plunged 19.5% in the West.  [Wall Street Journal]
> 
> There has got to be something strange about these numbers.  How can you
> have 
> high vacancy rates and rents at a 20 year peak?  I know from the last few
> > years that you can fill your building if you lower the rents enough. 
> If you
> want to keep rents high and have an empty building I guess thats your
> choice.
> I have to think these numbers were derived from totally different sample
> populations and are not really comparable  (apples and ornages).
> Paul
> 
There is another factor at play here. In weak rental markets, owners will
offer big move-in concessions without lowering the nominal monthly rent.
Lowering the monthly rent on rental property is equivalent to lowering the
value of that property. Owners and realtors don't like to admit to that. 
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
From: johne@PROBLEM_WITH_INEWS_GATEWAY_FILE (John Eaton)
Subject: Re: Real Estate News Summary, Part 128
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 23:22:50 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Hewlett-Packard VCD
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

Paul Krause CIRT (pkrause@triton.unm.edu) wrote:
: In article <1992Nov16.220048.17388@adobe.com> hamachi@adobe.com (Gordon Hamachi) writes:
: 
: There has got to be something strange about these numbers.  How can you have 
: high vacancy rates and rents at a 20 year peak?  I know from the last few 
: years that you can fill your building if you lower the rents enough.  If you
: want to keep rents high and have an empty building I guess thats your choice.
: I have to think these numbers were derived from totally different sample
: populations and are not really comparable  (apples and ornages).
: Paul
: 
-----------------
The problem is if you have a building with about a 10-20% vacancy rate then
you may not want to lower the rates to fill it up. Once your current tenants
find out that you lowered the rent for newcomers then everyone will come in 
and want the same deal. Instead of receiving 100% rent on 90% of the building
you get 90% rent on 100% of the building. You are better off leaving them
empty and hoping you can ride out the storm.

John Eaton
!hp-vcd!johne
From: brennan@alc.com (Tom Brennan)
Subject: Beware! Robert G. Allen's WealthTraining
Organization: Ascent Logic Corporation, San Jose, CA
Distribution: na
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 22:57:15 GMT


This falls under the heading of a Public Service Announcement. I would
strongly advise against any dealings with Robert G. Allen and his 
current company called "University 2000". Last year, I signed up for
a week long seminar called the "WealthTraining". This seminar was 
supposed to be a year long apprenticeship program with comprehensive
support and follow up sessions. It was sold to me with the understanding
that there would be extensive personalized instruction. Instead, the
initial week long seminar was a room filled with 200 students being given
sketchy overview lectures of the information found in "Nothing Down
for the 90's". These lectures were followed by field exercises wherein
the students were sent off into the field (real world) with monumental
tasks to complete ( while the instructors and mentors retired to the 
swimming pool). The "personalized" instruction consisted of meeting
for 5 minute sessions with your team (15 members) prior to each 
subsequent lecture.

The telephone coaching service following the initial week of "training"
was staffed by "experts" who did not know what constitutes a jumbo loan 
or what purpose an Enrolled Agent serves.

All was not lost, I hoped in that there was a money back guarantee available
if I jumped through the appropriate hoops in the one year following the
initial "WealthTraining". After having completed the 150 on site property
inspections, writing and presenting 30 offers to purchase, I submitted
my request for a refund. 

After two weeks waiting for a response, I finally called the company
that sold me the seminar, called the WIN corporation ( aka Challenge
Systems), regarding the status of my refund. As could be predicted, the
WIN corporation quietly closed its doors on January 1st 1992 -- two and a half
months following the WealthTraining. Consequently, no monies are available
for the refund. Apparently, I may be able to obtain 21 cents on the
dollar of the amount that should be refunded if I get involved in the
bankruptcy process. Meanwhile, Robert Allen is out hawking the
WealthTraining under the company named University 2000 -- so buyer
beware!

If you have any suggestions regarding legal or other recourse, please email
me. Any "there's a sucker born every minute" type responses should
be directed to /dev/null. 

_____________________________________________________________
#include <standard disclaimer>

These are my views and not those of Ascent Logic Corporation
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
From: ajg@controls.ccd.harris.com (Arnold Goldberg)
Subject: Re: Breaking the MLS monopoly
Organization: Harris Controls and Compositions
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 20:58:40 GMT

>>>>> On 18 Nov 92 10:53:04, jyl@burgess.eng.sun.com (Jacob Levy) said:
Jacob> NNTP-Posting-Host: burgess


Jacob> Is there any reason why private people should not be able to start their
Jacob> own listing service? I think it would work somewhat like this:

Jacob> - Joe R. Andom wants to sell his home.
Jacob> - Joe contacts the private listing service.
Jacob> - They charge for a listing in the same manner as a newspaper would, i.e.
Jacob>   fixed cost per word and for a period of time.
Jacob> - Joe sells his home and cancels the listing.

Jacob> The listing service also provides computerized subscriptions, so that
Jacob> anyone with a PC can connect. Probably the connection itself would be free,
Jacob> and there'd be a pay-per-access charge for each listing.

Jacob> I cannot see how such a service would possibly fail as a business. Every
Jacob> sensible realtor would subscribe in addition to subscribing to the MLS, and
Jacob> every potential buyer with a PC would also independently subscribe.


I've thought about doing this a couple of times, but I guess I'm reluctant
to spend a lot of time on something that might fizzle.

I know if I where a consumer, my main concern would be the percentage of
houses out there that are on the market compared to how many are in the
database.  

One way around this,  would be a free listing and just charge
for the query.

But this is essentially what Buy Owner and a couple others do.

It's going to be tough to break the monopoly :)

arnold

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arnold Goldberg                            Email:  ajg@ccd.harris.com
Phone: (407)242-5051                       Snail:  Harris Controls
Fax  : (407)242-4262                               407 John Rodes Blvd.
                                                   Melbourne, FL 32905
The opinions expressed are my own and do not in any way represent Harris 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ros@aoinit.msk.su (Komyagin Valery)
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
Subject: FOR SALE: Appartments in Moscow.
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 17:04:07 +0200
Distribution: world
Organization: Joint-Stock Venture INIT, Ltd
Reply-To: ros@aoinit.msk.su

Dear Sirs:

  We offer for sale appartments in Moscow. The prices are ( November, 1992 ):

        Number of room(s)       Price in USD
        -----------------------------------------
                1               20.000 - 25.000
                2               25.000 - 30.000
                3               45.000 - 70.000

          more than 4           1000 per square
          in the center         meter
          of Moscow
        -----------------------------------------

   Send us your needs and we'll respond with concrete suggestions.
   We are ready to find an office for your firm in Moscow.

   Mishin Valery
   president,
   ROS Co.Ltd.
   E-Mail: ros@aoinit.msk.su



Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
From: macrakis@osf.org (Stavros Macrakis)
Subject: Re: Mortgage prepayment: 'front' vs. 'back' application?
Organization: OSF Research Institute
Date: 18 Nov 92 11:34:48

In article <1992Nov17.114328.44877@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> 1k1mgm@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (Christopher Gunn) writes:

   ...how [is the] converse 'front-end' scheme ... calculated.
   Simplest way would be to re-compute the amortization scheme each
   time there is an extra principal payment, for a term equal to the
   remaining term of the original loan at the new balance.  This works
   just fine computationally, but seems almost too debtor- friendly.
   ...

Almost all mortgage loans require a fixed payment, regardless of the
remaining principal.  As you prepay, you reduce the principal you owe,
of course, and thus you pay less interest and more principal,
shortening the term.  Reducing the payment amount would require
negotiating with the lender.

So the answer is: you never recompute the payment amount: it is fixed.
Otherwise, the calculation is very simple: 

	principal[p+1] = principal[p] * (1 + interest_rate) - payment

Interest_rate of course is the rate per whatever period (typically a
month) is involved.

	-s
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
From: samf@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Sam Fairchild)
Subject: Re: Refinance with same lender
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 19:10:29 GMT


It seems the marketplace favors new deals.    But here's the counter-example:
My banker friend tells me that some
banking institutions (ones with their eyes open) will rather keep your old loan
by refinancing than see your business (cash flow) go elsewhere.  Especially if
you have you household and business checking accounts at the same bank.
This friend did know of a 1% over Prime variable rate second mortgage at his
bank. ( I applied and got it)    I was a temporary sales promotion prior to the
Election.  :-)
I guess the moral here is:  Keeping asking around until you exhaust your
patience of find a better deal.   Good luck!
Sam Fairchild
=============
-- 

Sam Fairchild
Academic Computing Services
1971 Neil Avenue
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
From: macrakis@osf.org (Stavros Macrakis)
Subject: Re: Breaking the MLS monopoly
Organization: OSF Research Institute
Date: 19 Nov 92 11:01:58

In article <JYL.92Nov18105304@burgess.eng.sun.com>
jyl@burgess.eng.sun.com (Jacob Levy) writes:

   Is there any reason why private people should not be able to start their
   own listing service?...

I agree that this seems like a good idea.  The main problems are
probably:

1) From the buyer's point of view, going to a broker seems much
easier.  I suspect that most buyers do not think of the commission as
part of the cost of the house.  Also, I suspect that most buyers _and_
sellers are intimidated by the process of transferring a house without
handholding.

2) In order for such a service to take off, it has to have some
substantial portion of the listings, or no one will bother to read it,
and so no one will advertise in it.  MLS provides notionally one-stop
shopping.

3) Cost has to compare favorably to newspaper ads.  Around here, it's
something like $60 an insertion, and you'd presumably insert every two
weeks, hoping for a sale within three months, giving $360 or so.  The
newspaper has the advantage that it is already very widely
distributed, and very well read.

4) A large part of brokers' time is spent getting leads on properties
for sale.  Presumably you could not afford to spend as much effort on
this.

5) Sellers have to have some confidence that the publication is as
widely distributed as it claims to be, and that it will be in business
for at least a couple of months.

6) Information has to be timely and accurate.  If a quarter of the
listings are stale, or the information is wrong, buyers will quickly
stop using the service.

7) Since it's a listing service only, it doesn't take care of
scheduling and organizing visits to the properties.  This is another
important function of brokers, especially for those who are moving
into a new area, and don't know their way around, can't spend too much
time looking, etc.

In summary, I think it could be made to work.  However, it would
require a lot of capital (to build up circulation and listings to some
sort of critical mass) and probably some additional "gimmick", like
photos of every property or cross-correlation of data in survey books
or whatever.

	-s

Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
From: nagle@netcom.com (John Nagle)
Subject: Re: Beware! Robert G. Allen's WealthTraining
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 19:27:11 GMT

>>
>>This falls under the heading of a Public Service Announcement. I would
>>strongly advise against any dealings with Robert G. Allen and his 
>>current company called "University 2000". Last year, I signed up for
>   Text deleted>
>>If you have any suggestions regarding legal or other recourse, please email
>>me.

      You might look for an attorney who knows what "piercing the corporate
veil" means and has done it successfully.

					John Nagle
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
From: iba@rti.rti.org
Subject: Rent or Owner finance (which is more beneficial?)
Organization: Research Triangle Institute, RTP, NC
Distribution: misc
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 21:08:51 GMT

Hi All,

I presently own a house and a townhouse.  I have recently moved into
the house and the townhouse remains vacant.  I have tried to sell it
on the market for about a year now but, it's small and low priced,
therefore, not attracting buyers in the market right now.  Most of the
people who have been interested have not been able to come up with the
downpayment, or didn't qualify.  My problem is this:

I can't afford to carry both places right now.  I don't have a
mortgage on the townhouse any longer but still have to pay taxes,
insurance, and monthly dues which still adds up to a substantial
amount.  I need to do one of two things, either rent it, or do an
owner financing sale.

Anyone have any advice on which way to go.  The payments vs. rental
fee would come out to about the same monthly figure of $500.  The
difference, of course, is the sale, versus just renting the place but
maintaining ownership myself.

I'm forced, at this time, to do one or the other, so I'm seeking
immediate help in the form of opinions from the Networld.  Any help
would be deeply appreciated.

Thanks

Ingrid
rti@shrike.rti.org
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
From: grady@world.std.com (Dick Grady)
Subject: Re: Breaking the MLS monopoly
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 06:45:29 GMT

In article <1992Nov19.160754.23332@unocal.com> stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini) writes:
>I would not be surprised if there are many locations where maintaining a listing
>service would be the crime of "practicing realotry without a license" with
>penalties.  There is lots of money in real estate transactions and powerful
>profesional groups involved.  They've probably lobbied laws in their states
>to protect themselves.

It should be legal everywhere.  Conceptually, it's the same type of
service as the real-estate section of a newspaper.
Seller pays money to list property (buys an ad).
Buyer pays money to access listing (buys newspaper to read ads).

-- 
Dick Grady               grady@world.std.com
So many newsgroups, so little time!
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
From: chet@spock.retix.com (Chet Mazur)
Subject: Re: Rent or Owner finance (which is more beneficial?)
Organization: Retix, Santa Monica
Distribution: misc
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 13:57:53 GMT

how about a lease w/ option to buy? this way you improve your
immediate cash flow situation and the renter/buyer improves their
situation as well (by erroding the down-payment)...

Wrt owner finance I'm assuming you'ld carry a land contract... the
issue here is: if the buyer is an unexceptable credit risk to a lender
("...or didn't qualify.")... why should you take the risk? what if
they TRASH the place and then you have to do a repo??? you get the
trashed property back... all of this is IMHO.
--

Chet Mazur (chet-mazur@retix.com)

-- 

Chet Mazur (chet-mazur@retix.com)

Xref: sparky misc.invest.real-estate:970 cmh.general:40 cmh.network:2 cmh.groups:3
From: ajg@controls.ccd.harris.com (Arnold Goldberg)
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate,cmh.general,cmh.network,cmh.groups
Subject: Re: HOLY EDIBLE, THAT'S INCREDIBLE!!!!!!
Date: 18 Nov 92 15:56:43 GMT
Organization: Harris Controls and Compositions


--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arnold Goldberg                            Email:  ajg@ccd.harris.com
Phone: (407)242-5051                       Snail:  Harris Controls
Fax  : (407)242-4262                               407 John Rodes Blvd.
                                                   Melbourne, FL 32905
The opinions expressed are my own and do not in any way represent Harris 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: cassorla@npg-sd.SanDiegoCA.NCR.COM (Jon Cassorla)
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
Subject: Is capital loss on sale of house deductible?
Date: 20 Nov 92 16:57:51 GMT
Reply-To: cassorla@npg-sd.SanDiegoCA.NCR.COM (Jon Cassorla)
Organization: NCR Corp., Network Products - San Diego

Does anyone know of a new tax law which allows you to write off
a capital loss on the sale of a home?  The home is a primary
residence.


Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
From: pkrause@triton.unm.edu (Paul Krause CIRT)
Subject: Re: Beware! Robert G. Allen's WealthTraining
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 15:37:45 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
Distribution: na

In article <1992Nov15.225715.28303@alc.com> brennan@alc.com (Tom Brennan) writes:
>
>This falls under the heading of a Public Service Announcement. I would
>strongly advise against any dealings with Robert G. Allen and his 
>current company called "University 2000". Last year, I signed up for
   Text deleted>
>If you have any suggestions regarding legal or other recourse, please email
>me. Any "there's a sucker born every minute" type responses should
                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Two comments come to mind.
1. It takes courage to admit in public that you made a big mistake, but knowing
   the facts helps others avoid making the same mistake, so thanks for the post.

2. If you are doing things, as apposed to talking about doing things, you are
   going to make mistakes.  I try to think of it as tuition.  Besides, you
   must write better offers after doing 30 :)
Paul
From: dhaffner@amiganet.chi.il.us (David Haffner)
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
Subject: New Haven, CT area....
Date: 15 Nov 92 17:51:44 GMT
Organization: Amiga Network Information Systems

I am moving to the New Haven, CT area. Does anyone have any suggestions as to
some nice areas to look for a home. I am looking for a nice neighborhood for my
3 children(11, 5, and 1 year-olds) and my principal job responsibilities will
call for me to work in downtown(?) New Haven, with occasional trips to
Springfield and Boston, MA.

Is there a better group I can post this in?

Thanks!
From: pkrause@triton.unm.edu (Paul Krause CIRT)
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
Subject: Re: Real Estate News Summary, Part 128
Date: 18 Nov 92 16:24:46 GMT
Article-I.D.: lynx.wklq90=
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

In article <BxvvM3.DzC@vcd.hp.com> johne@PROBLEM_WITH_INEWS_GATEWAY_FILE (John Eaton) writes:
>The problem is if you have a building with about a 10-20% vacancy rate then
>you may not want to lower the rates to fill it up. Once your current tenants
>find out that you lowered the rent for newcomers then everyone will come in 
>and want the same deal. Instead of receiving 100% rent on 90% of the building
>you get 90% rent on 100% of the building. You are better off leaving them
>empty and hoping you can ride out the storm.
>
>John Eaton
>!hp-vcd!johne
>
This sounds plausable, but never happened to me.  What I saw more of was 
landlords who refused to admit their rents were to high (largely because
of overbuilding of new units) .  They would have 1 or two units in a 4-plex
vacant for months rather than lower the asking rent.   My experience is
with residential, I suspect the above would be more likely in a commercial
situation.  The "storm" can last a long time too.  It took me three years
to get the rents back to what they were "suposed" to be when I bought the
place.  John Reed in his Managing Apartments book spends a lot of time
talking about raising/lowering rents if anyone is interested in more details.
Paul
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
From: akachhy@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (avinash.kachhy)
Subject: Re: Breaking the MLS monopoly
Organization: SELF
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 20:13:17 GMT

In article <JYL.92Nov18105304@burgess.eng.sun.com> jyl@toss.eng.sun.com writes:
>
>Is there any reason why private people should not be able to start their
>own listing service? I think it would work somewhat like this:
>
>- Joe R. Andom wants to sell his home.
>- Joe contacts the private listing service.
>- They charge for a listing in the same manner as a newspaper would, i.e.
>  fixed cost per word and for a period of time.
>- Joe sells his home and cancels the listing.
>
>The listing service also provides computerized subscriptions, so that
>anyone with a PC can connect. Probably the connection itself would be free,
>and there'd be a pay-per-access charge for each listing.
>
>I cannot see how such a service would possibly fail as a business. Every
>sensible realtor would subscribe in addition to subscribing to the MLS, and
>every potential buyer with a PC would also independently subscribe.
>
>I also think that if it came to a lawsuit, the charges could successfully
>fought on the grounds of monopolization.
>
>Comments?
>
>--JYL

I think that such a service does exist, atleast in NE USA. It is called
the seller's network or something like that. When you advertize in a 
newspaper for sale by owner they call you and try to get your ad in their
listing for $250. They provide free lists to buyers. This is not like MLS
but still I felt that $250 was too high for relatively unknown service.
One can get the list by calling 1-800-by-owner. I tried that number a 
few times in non-business hours and no one answered.

Avinash Kachhy
attmail!akachhy
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
From: mikeb@pandora.dell.com (Michael Brundridge)
Subject: Capital gains-how long after selling house?
Organization: Dell Computer Co
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 23:09:04 GMT


I believe the rules changed as to how long you have to re-invest your
money from the sale of property until you have to pay gains on it. 

What is the time period these days? This is from the sale of my
primary residence.

Please send email, or cc on any response to the group.

Thanks,
--
Michael Brundridge         |      Dell Computer Corp         |   STANDARD
mikeb@pandora.dell.com     |      1807 W. Braker Ln          |   DISCLAIMER
Associate Engineer         |      Building C                 |   APPLIES
Novell CNE                 |      Austin, Tx 78758           |     
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate