From: tigger@satyr.Sylvan.COM (Grace Sylvan)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Please Don't Spank!
Date: 12 Nov 92 23:36:38 GMT
Distribution: misc
Organization: Sylvan Associates

In article <1992Nov11.092908.15849@vax5.cit.cornell.edu> tnzj@vax5.cit.cornell.edu writes:

   > Please don't spank! Don't teach obediance!>  
   > (stuff deleted)
   > We as parents are not here to "dicipline" our "wild" children. We
   > are here to nurture them and be an example. 
     (stuff deleted)

   I agree completely.  I think spanking is merely an outlet for the parent's
   emotions.  The child running around in the restaurant is a good example. It
   is the adult that is embarrased and frustrated at being embarassed. When a
   child runs into the street, it is the parent who is frightened and upset at
   being scared.  Spanking is the parent's emotional outlet; it deals with
   their problem not the child's.
   Discipline is for systems dedicated to their own easy maintenance and
   preservation.  Discipline makes thing's easier for the adults "in charge"
   it does not foster emotionally healthy children.  Parent's should be examples
   not wardens.

I understand and agree with the general where you are coming from, and
I also have something to say about your message:

Please, if you want to support parents, make the distinction in your
vocabularly between PUNISHING a child and DISCIPLINE. It *is* the
parent's responsibility to monitor their children, teach appropriate
behaviors, set examples, and *stop* dangerous/inappropriate behaviors.
Those behaviors *are* all involved with disciplining children and
helping them to learn self discipline as they get older.

Remember, when we use the word 'undisciplined' or 'self-disciplined'
we are not talking about spanking or punishing - we're talking about
the ability to select and follow through on our commitments/promises.
When we talk about an adult being well disciplined, we aren't implying
that he or she spanks or punishes him/herself.

It is exactly your misuse of the language - equating discipline with
punishment, and then saying that children don't need discipline that
gives fuel to pro-spanking arguments. They assume that when you say
'no discipline' that you mean that you won't restrict your child's
behaviors - being overly permissive has been shown (in at least 1
study!) to be as damaging to the children as being overly authoritarian
(and punishing). But there is a middle ground, of respect, of
guidance, of setting limits and following through that can give the
kids the best of everything - and they'll learn to be responsible for
themselves and not drive their parents too crazy or be out of control.

I probably shouldn't have replied, but I really wanted to make the
distinction between discipline and punishment clear (again).
-- 

Tigger (Grace Sylvan)                Mom of Katherine Yelena, 8/8/89,
tigger@satyr.sylvan.com              Corey 1/31/91; we loved him so,
                                     Robin Gregory born 2/28/92

 "It seems to me that our large goal is to find the ways to help our
 children become humane and strong."
 
              - Dr Haim Ginott quoted by Adele Faber & Elaine Mazlish
Newsgroups: misc.kids