HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: davids@hpsdde.sdd.hp.com (David Schwantner)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: 20/20 and Spanking
Date: 5 Nov 1992 12:29:54 -0800
Organization: Hewlett Packard, San Diego Division
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: hpsdde.sdd.hp.com

In article <1d9s2fINNp09@matt.ksu.ksu.edu> bets@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Beth Schwindt) writes:
>Did anyone whose parents didn't spank ever wish they did, rather than
>the punishment they actually received?
>
>Many times, my father would scream and yell at me for a long time.
>Gradually, I learned to tune him out.  He would have been much more
>effective in disciplining me if he *had* spanked, instead .....

Second hand story:
A close friend raised her two daughters after her husband left her. She
(for about 6 years) tried to over compensate for the missing love of the father
by "spoiling" the girls with alot of freedom, etc... Her method of discipline
was reason, removal of privilages, timeouts, etc... Both girls were very 
rebelious still. At some point someone convinced her that she needed to start
spanking them for certain offenses (not as a rule for every offense, but only
for a couple that they continued). After the first time she spanked her older 
girl (then maybe 8-10 years old), when the daughter had settled down from the
shock that her mom actually did it, the girl came to her mom and said "Thank
you, mom, I really deserved and needed that spanking. I was wrong". The mom
never did really continue using spanking regularly, and the girls are still
troubled and troubling in their mid-teens (drugs, running away, etc...).

Draw your own conclusions!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
David Schwantner - Hewlett-Packard - San Diego Site
Internet : davids@hpsdde.sdd.hp.com / davids%hpsdde@sdd.hp.com
Slow path: 16399 W. Bernardo Dr., San Diego, CA 92127, USA
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer: All opinions expressed here are the sole resposibility of the  
author, and therefore are neither shared, owned, nor payed for by H-P. 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Tim Plenk <tplenk@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Date: 10 Nov 92 18:47 PST
Subject: Re: Baby Monitors - Any Suggestions?
Nf-ID: #R:1992Nov6.220044.12413@bcrka451.b:-980689806:cdp:1427100039:000:335
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!tplenk    Nov 10 18:47:00 1992


in regards to baby monitors

i have used the Fisher price ones and like them a lot.
they plug directly into the wall, no base to get lost
they have batteries for total independence from plugs
they have two channels to choose the best reception
they have lights to show activity as well as sound
they work well

tim plenk
cambridge, ma
From: garyg@Warren.MENTORG.COM (Gary Gendel)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: tape recorder for a 2.5 year old
Date: 12 Nov 1992 20:04:59 GMT
Organization: Mentor Graphics, IC Group
Distribution: world
Reply-To: garyg@Warren.MENTORG.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: garyg.warren.mentorg.com

The most amusing and positive tapes that both my children love are:

	Traffic Jams  (I don't remember the Singer)
and
	Rory (This is her name).

	These are a must for long car trips B^)

Gary

Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: njamal@unix.amherst.edu (Nuhad Jamal)
Subject: Re: How long until no longer sick in daycare ?
Organization: Amherst College
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 13:06:00 GMT

Heather A Rothwell (tedybear@ravel.udel.edu) wrote:
: I work in a daycare center.  Since I started work at the end of August
: there has not been one week that I have not been ill, strep throat,
: broncitus times 2, a flu here, a bug there (here a bug...there a
: flu...everywhere a bug/flu).  No this is not "Old Macdonald's farm"  it is
: a daycare that has a policy of allowing any child, regardless of illness
: to be in the school.  Yellow gunked noses, wipe them... Child sick in
: stomach, put him on a mat to sleep.  We do not send any child home unless
: they need to go to the hospital first.  The one exception to this is pink
: eye, but even children with that are allowed into the center if they have
: medicine (who cares that they have only been taking it 5 min.).  
: 
: So advice to parents (though it wasn't asked for):
: 
: Check you daycare  centers policy on what happens with ill children and
: staff.  I know that because I have NO sick leave, I have gone to work with
: many things that would have kept me out of a public school..  (Please
: don't flame me for making the children ill, I an desperate for the money. 
: If I don't work, I don't get payed.)
: 
: 

Checking out a daycare center's policy is an excellent idea...unfortunately
it isn't always followed by all parents at all times.  When my son was
in daycare not too long ago (he's six now), I remember being upset a lot of
the time because parents ignored the center's policy (which was quite
strict -- e.g. you can't send your child in until he/she has been on
antibiotics for at least 24 hours, etc.) and sent their kids to the
center sick.  This led to much bad feeling on the part of the teachers
who would have to call the parents to come and pick up their sick kids.
It also led to much anger on the part of the parents who were constantly
called to pick up their children.  

I realize that working parents (I happen to be one myself) still have 
to go to work even if their child is ill, still, it seems more prudent 
to keep a sick child home for 2 or 3 days to give the child a chance to 
really get well before sending them back to day care.  This would
have benefitted those children who seemed to have constant colds
with continuously running noses.  It still makes me angry that 
some parents sent their kids to day care sick and my son 
(who was mostly healthy) picked up the most 'colorful' 
viruses you can imagine from cocksakie (sp?) to scarlet fever... 

Thanks for letting me get this off my chest,

Nuhad Jamal
njamal@amherst
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: lindsay@sesame.lbl.gov (Lindsay Schachinger)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Diaper Services - worth it ?
Date: 9 Nov 1992 17:21:00 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory, Berkeley
Reply-To: lindsay@sesame.lbl.gov (Lindsay Schachinger)
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.254.22

In article <owens.721325099@gargoyle.uchicago.edu> owens@gargoyle.uchicago.edu (Christopher Owens) writes:

>Personally, the landfill impact of disposables doesn't bother me.
>What does bother me is the chemical runoff from bleaching all that
>pulp.   Who needs a sparkling white diaper, when natural tan would do
>just fine?  In particular, who cares if the inside, hidden layers of a
>disposable are gleaming white?

What about the bleach used for bleaching cloth diapers? And they
don't get bleached just once. I know you can get unbleached cloth
diapers, but most people don't.

Something I thought was funny, and interesting, was an article in
the recent issue of Mothering about toxics and cotton. Check it
out. 

I also have an article from the Oct/Nov issue of Garbage magazine
on the disposable/cloth diaper debate. The conclusion is --- it's
a wash.

Lindsay

-- 

   Lindsay Schachinger			lindsay@sesame.lbl.gov
   Exploratory Studies Group		ucbvax!sesame.lbl.gov!lindsay
   Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory		(510) 486-5009
From: dxf12@po.CWRU.Edu (Douglas Fowler)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Examples for discussion (was Re: Plain Talk About Spanking (long))
Date: 9 Nov 1992 22:58:36 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc12.ins.cwru.edu


     Regarding getting the 4YO to flush the toilet, didn't someone post
here a while (perhaps even a year?) back about how they would put 4
quarters on the back of the toilet.  Then, each time the toilet wasn't
flushed, the parents would take a quarter away.  At the end of the week,
the child got to keep however many were left.  To whomever posted it,
did this work?  It sounds like this is the type of thing positive, not
negative, reinforcement is good for.
-- 
Doug Fowler: dxf12@po.CWRU.edu  : Me, age 4 & now: "Mommys and Daddys & other
   "Thou shalt love God with all: relatives have to give lots of hugs & love
thy heart...*and thy neighbor as: & support, 'cause Heaven is just a great
thyself*." Luke 10:27           : big hug that lasts forever and ever!!!"
From: shack@cs.arizona.edu (David Shackelford)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: 20/20 and Spanking
Date: 8 Nov 92 07:52:43 GMT
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson

In article <1992Nov5.093409.11146@sequent.com> newell@sequent.com (Donald Newell) writes:
 >In article <25822@optima.cs.arizona.edu> shack@cs.arizona.edu (David Shackelford) writes:
 >>[...]
 >>I have had a frightening experience with older children & matches:
 >>
 >>Kids are playing with matches *under* a mobile home.  A gas leak
 >>develops, and the gas company is called in.  They discover burned
 >>matches under the house and inform the mother.
 >>
 >>She jumps all over the kids about it and their reaction was "If it was
 >>so bad, why didn't you do something like spank us for it when you
 >>caught us before?"  That's a DIRECT quote -- I was there. (She wasn't
 >>a spanker at the time)
 >
 >
 >
 > I had a frightening experience with older children & a playground.
 > A six year old was jumping from the top of the slide with my son.
 > The other mother came out and started beating and spanking and hitting
 > him. His reaction was "Please don't, please, please". 
 > That's a DIRECT quote -- I was there.
 >
 >
 > Don N.

????????????????

What does that have to do with the price of tea in china?

A mother has the right to tell her child to do/not do something, and
the right to do something about it.  I don't know what the rule was,
the history, the child's personality.  I refuse to judge a situation
such as this -- it's none of my business.  Your apparent eagerness
to judge the situation shows you have not considered all possibilites.

Dave
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: alice_bertelson@pts.mot.com (ALICE BERTELSON X2572 P7331)
Subject: washing detergents
Followup-To: helpful hints 
Reply-To: alice_bertelson@pts.mot.com
Organization: Paging and Wireless Data Group
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 19:37:28 GMT

>This brings up a question I have:  Sam is 7 months old, and I've been washing
>his clothes separately, in Dreft.  When do I dare to try washing his clothes
>with ours (we use Tide), and how long would it take for any adverse reaction
>to show itself?  And when do I dare to use fabric softener sheets in the dryer
>with his clothes?
>
>Maybe I'm desperately grasping at straws here, but even being able to wash
>Sam's clothes with ours could save me some time....
>
>Coni Gehler
>clg@cray.com

 Hi - my son Matthew is now almost 4 yrs old and I still wash his stuff and my 16mo daughters stuff in Dreft - Believe me the rash on his neck is instantaneous when he puts on clothes washed in anything else - I can always tell when MIL washes his clothes!!! - I do ask her not to :-) Her doing that is enough of an indication to me that he still is very sensitive to stronger detergents so I haven't tried is periodically since Melanie was born......

I don`t know if my daughter is the same as now I have SOOOOO many clothes to wash that they easily fill up a load themsleves!! 

Mind you on the other part I have been putting fabric softener sheets (a variety of Cling free, bounce whatever) in with the clothes in the dryer for ages - probably since he was about 6 mths old and that doesn`t seem to cause a reaction.

Alice, Alleycat or Brit :-)

Motorola Paging Div		Phone: (407) 364-2572
Mail stop 36			Fax:  (407) 364-3571
1500 NW 22nd Ave		Email: alice_bertelson@pts.mot.com
Boynton Beach, FL 33426
USA





Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: LISAS@pucc.Princeton.EDU (Lisa S Lewis)
Subject: Backword Chaining: Was Dressing Self
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 18:47:56 GMT

I missed most of the discussion about self-dressing; I am assuming that it
was mostly about the difficulty of getting kids to dress themselves with
minimum help on busy mornings.
 
Anyway, I'm wondering if anyone who is teaching dressing skills is familiar
with the technique often used with handicapped kids called backward chaining?
It is perfect for teaching any complex skill.
 
It's useful for anything you might want to teach that can be broken down into
several steps, and is just as useful for "normal" kids as for special ones.
It consists of breaking the task into discrete steps, and teaching them from
last to first.
 
For example: teaching a child to put on his/her own pants.  1) you put the
child's legs in the pant legs, pull the pants almost all the way up; have the
child complete the task by pulling the pants up to the waist.  2)Next time,
start with the pants at knee level and have child pull pants up over their
bottom, and then up to the waist. 3) next time have them put their feet into
the pant legs etc etc.
 
That's a very simplistic example, but it works really well.  E.g. lots of
kids get really frustrated when trying to learn to tie their shoes.  You
do the whole thing except pulling on the loops to tighten and let the child
start with that.  Then work your way BACK through the chain of steps.
 
Perhaps this is an old techique that everyone knows...if so I apologize for
the wasted bandwidth.  But I was unfamiliar with it, and my parents certainly
never taught me anything in this way.
 
Lisa
From: tnzj@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Please Don't Spank!
Date: 11 Nov 92 09:29:08 EST
Distribution: misc
Organization: Cornell University

In article <184390002@hpsemc.cup.hp.com>,
pt@hpsemc.cup.hp.com (Perry Taidi) writes: 
> 
> 
> Please don't spank! Don't teach obediance!>  
> (stuff deleted)
> We as parents are not here to "dicipline" our "wild" children. We
> are here to nurture them and be an example. 
  (stuff deleted)
 
I agree completely.  I think spanking is merely an outlet for the parent's
emotions.  The child running around in the restaurant is a good example. It
is the adult that is embarrased and frustrated at being embarassed. When a
child runs into the street, it is the parent who is frightened and upset at
being scared.  Spanking is the parent's emotional outlet; it deals with
their problem not the child's.
Discipline is for systems dedicated to their own easy maintenance and
preservation.  Discipline makes thing's easier for the adults "in charge"
it does not foster emotionally healthy children.  Parent's should be examples
not wardens.
When my daughter ran into the road, I was scared to death, shaken. And that's
how I behaved and that's what we talked about.  I demonstrated the danger of
the situation by my reaction.  I think she got it.
Thanks for the decription of the restaurant scene. I will try to model your
honesty.
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: LISAS@pucc.Princeton.EDU (Lisa S Lewis)
Subject: Re: Dressing Self
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 18:32:49 GMT

In article <TIGGER.92Nov8032038@satyr.Sylvan.COM>
tigger@satyr.Sylvan.COM (Grace Sylvan) writes:
 
>
>
>The second is that anything the least bit snug against her body tends
>to upset her quite a bit. Thus she never wears pull on pants, she
>hates socks, shoes, underwear, etc.  I've heard of other kids who are
>that way, so she's not alone. So, for her to actually put on shoes is
>a big deal, for they are the snuggliest of her clothing. Almost every
>time she does it, it is with great displeasure, and she's only doing
>it because we ask her to.
>
>I've pretty much determined that the clothing issue with Katherine
>isn't just her trying to get attention because she will wear her very
>loose short dresses with short or no sleeves without a problem. She
>might even put one on herself when I'm not even in the room with her.
>--
 
There is a name for this, which you might not be aware of. It is called
"tactile defensiveness." Lots of people are tactilely defensive (won't touch
anything with certain textures, won't fingerpaint etc.) It's not just
wanting to avoid messiness, but actually avoiding particular textures that
are very distasteful to them.
 
Not being able to stand (or at least, really hating) certain kinds of clothing
falls into this category. It is probably neurological in origin,I DON'T mean
that something is *wrong*, but rather that she is not doing it for attention.
 
It has to do with the way her brain interprets the sensory input from clothing
on her body.  Does she like to cuddle, or is she more one for the quick hug
and then off she goes?  It wouldn't be terribly surprising if she were not a
big cuddler.
 
Will she outgrow it? Maybe.  I suspect that she'll retain some kind of remnant
(e.g. wouldn't  wear turtlenecks, even as an adult) but that it won't hamper
her a bit.  Is there anything you can do to help?  Maybe.  I'd see that she
gets lots of sensory input...lots of 'touchy-feely' arts and crafts. Maybe
a gym type class with big balls to roll around on, trampolines, swings.  Any-
thing that "exercises" the brain's ability to handle sensory input.
 
No, I'm not an occupational therapist! But my son has autism, which is a very
exaggerated version of sensory input disturbance and I've seen lots of kids
who are defensive in these ways.  And I've read up on it and found that lots
of normal adults and children have these sensitivities.
 
I realize that the original discussion wasn't about Katherine's dislike of
tight clothing...but I did think it was interesting that she is defensive in
this way.  If all this was well known to you already, I apologize!
 
Lisa
From: bweiss@cs.arizona.edu (Beth Weiss)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: How to help the "oops" of a family...
Date: 12 Nov 92 19:03:32 GMT
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson

>> bets@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Beth Schwindt) writes:
>>I babysit (and have babysat at different times over the years) with a
>>family with 3 children:  Billy, Joanna and Emily.  The age difference
>>is 4 years between Billy and Joanna and 10 months between Jo and Emmy.
>>Emmy was an admitted "oops" due to the fact her parents forgot that it
>>*is* possible to get pregnant while you are nursing....Anyway...
>>
>>Billy and Jo pick on Em all the time about not being planned.  

I think it's time for the parents to put their foot (feet?) down.
They need to tell all three children that they are loved and they're
glad they're part of the family--and that _any_ discussion of
unwanted/unplanned children will not be tolerated.    (consequences of
violating this might be isolation from the family, since the violator
is trying to isolate another)

One more thing: this type of thing is exactly the reason why parents
who are having an unplanned child shouldn't tell _anyone_ that the
pregnancy wasn't planned.  A child should _never_ have to hear "your
parents didn't want you"--especially from supposedly "more wanted"
siblings.   

--
--Beth Weiss
bweiss@cs.arizona.edu
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: jmd@iti.org (Joni M. Dale)
Subject: Re: Cute Self abuse (was 20/20 and Spanking)
Organization: Industrial Technology Institute
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 01:52:02 GMT


>Afterwards Justine began to walk around hitting her hand on
>different things and then going " oooh ouch".


>Mike N.

   My niece Amber did much the same thing.  Only she had bumped
her head one day and my sister Lesa said Ouch!

   Now when Amber is in a silly mood she will bang her head on
a table or a wall or the floor and say Ouch.  Problem is that she
really bangs her head hard.  She has actually left red marks and
bruises on her own head at the same time laughing.

Oh Amber is 21 months old.

Joni :)
From: tigger@satyr.Sylvan.COM (Grace Sylvan)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Examples for discussion (was Re: Plain Talk About Spanking (long))
Date: 10 Nov 92 07:30:13 GMT
	<1992Nov5.154258.9354@cbfsb.cb.att.com>
	<1992Nov06.235228.2222640@locus.com>
Organization: Sylvan Associates

I wanted to add one other thing concerning the 15 year old coming in 2
hours late. I would look carefully at what examples Kayvan and I were
setting (hopefully I'd notice before then, but if I didn't). Like, do
we always check in if we were going to be late (and how much later
requires a checkin). Do we usually try to make it to engagements on
time, and phone if we were going to be late? Or are we consistantly
late, apologizing after we arrive (if at all). It would just be
something I would look at, to be *sure* I was being responsible in the
example I was setting.
-- 

Tigger (Grace Sylvan)                Mom of Katherine Yelena, 8/8/89,
tigger@satyr.sylvan.com              Corey 1/31/91; we loved him so,
                                     Robin Gregory born 2/28/92

 "It seems to me that our large goal is to find the ways to help our
 children become humane and strong."
 
              - Dr Haim Ginott quoted by Adele Faber & Elaine Mazlish
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: pitt@cs.uiuc.edu (Lenny Pitt)
Subject: Video interview ideas
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Distribution: misc
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 19:09:23 GMT

Quite awhile ago I saw a post about a booklet/pamphlet that one
could order that included tips on videotaping kids, and in particular
included a list of great questions to ask in a yearly interview session.

Does anybody have information about how to get the booklet I'm 
referring to?

Please email to pitt@cs.uiuc.edu, as I don't regularly read this
excellent newsgroup (too busy managing kids :-))
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: elonich@cbnewse.cb.att.com (diane.e.pedersen)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Washing stuffed animals
Date: 9 Nov 92 20:51:56 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Labs, Naperville IL


Since we've had a problem with too many stuffed animals, I was 
willing to take a chance wshing them.  (We'd had a bunch up in the attic
for several years between children).

I washed them in cold water, with Woolite, and lighly heat-dried
them, then used "air fluff" for a while longer, and then let
them air dry the rest of the way.

My most common damge was scratches to the paint on the eyes and nose.
I don't think any "died" on me, though several said "surface wash only"
(though none were straw-filled).  Glued-on felt features did fall off.

I also did this to the stuffed animals in the church nursery, and was
disappointed that most survived (we had too many).
-- 
Diane Pedersen
AT&T Bell Laboratories
Naperville, Illinois
att!ihlpe!elonich
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: kjchang@opus.hpl.hp.com (KJ Chang)
Subject: constipation of a six-month baby
Organization: Hewlett-Packard
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 07:35:09 GMT

My six-month baby Sean is primarily eating the breast milk.
We feed him some first-food fruit, such as peach from Gerber, 
ten spoons every night. He has developed constipation since 
eating the fruit (peach, prune, banana, etc.). Our doctor 
gave us some pediatric baby food, which is supposed to solve 
the problem. It is not working. BTW, if my memory is right,
I have had on-and-off constipation since I was a kid. :-(

We do not have any solution now except using suppository once 
every three days.

Thanks for your attention,

KJ Chang
Newsgroups: misc.kids