From: dtwei@acsu.buffalo.edu (Danielle T Wei)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american,soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: What does Arthur Hu mean to *me*
Date: 9 Jan 93 02:11:50 GMT
Organization: UB

In article <1993Jan8.140439.12779@nynexst.com> clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu) writes:
>In article <1993Jan6.205049.16496@cbnewse.cb.att.com> ronaldd@cbnewse.cb.att.com (ronald.h.davis) writes:
>>the odd thing is, i get the impression that a lot of asians are on that same
>>road, especially the japanese.  i'm not making an all-inclusive statement of
>>all asians but i sometimes get the impression that asians come this country
>>and try to prove to white people that they can be just as racist as they think
>>the white people are.  it comes across to me as a "the enemy of my enemy is my
>>friend"-based rationale to curry favor with white people who they fear would
>>otherwise be hostile to them directly.
>
>  I tend to agree, except that I don't think the "prejudice" is necessarily
>  learned here in America.  Recently I've come to notice a lot of my
>  South Asian colleagues making un-PC remarks about Blacks, Hispanics
>  and "Orientals" and not thinking anything was wrong with what they
>  said.  In fact it was the White PC-Police here that protests and
>  gives them a hard time.  So I don't think they're necessarily trying
>  to impress the whites.  It was pointed out that they are even prejudiced
>  within their own groups.  For example, you can tell by the last name
>  what caste and ethnic group a person is and decide to talk or not talk
>  to them.  My husband (medical resident) works where a lot of South Asian
>  doctors and nurses work, and they are constantly complaining that this
>  doctor is prejudiced because he's from this group and so on.  Of course
>  to a white person, they all look the same, but within their own groups
>  they have a caste hierarchy and an ethnic breakdown.  I've already posted
>  where this same person said that he didn't want to hire this "Oriental"
>  because he didn't like his accent.  So the white PC-police said, how about
>  your accent?  Then this person says, "hey I can understand my accent, but
>  I can't understand his, and it is a work problem when no-one can understand
>  his accent."  Notice how it went from "I can't understand" to "no-one
>  can understand."  From a prejudiced background, you can expect them to
>  come to America and add on some new prejudices to reflect the new conditions.
>
>  Meanwhile the East Asians also have their homegrown prejudices between
>  the different countries.  So it is only an extension of prejudice to
>  add on prejudice against Blacks and Hispanics.  If people weren't already
>  prejudiced, they'd probably not pick up new ones.  I know that I don't
>  pick up any new prejudices.  For example, if the Bengali guy tells me
>  that he doesn't like Sikhs, it doesn't influence me in any way whatsoever.
>  To me they are all just another person.  I could care less what caste
>  they're from.  If they tell me they're Brahmin it doesn't make me think
>  any higher or lower of them.

First I would like to give a round of applause to Arthur Hu for all he has
done. I believe there is nothing wrong in his attitude, and that people are
simply too critical of him to actually analyze his messages.

As for racism among Asians, I agree with Clare Chu that it's nothing new.
If you look at the history/culture of China, you'll realize that it had always
been conservative. In fact, China had always considered other countries/people
inferior in the past. It wasn't until the early 19th century, when the British
led the charge that brought the downfall of China (then a corrupt shithole),
that the Chinese feelings toward the foreignors changed from "open contempt"
to "dislike with a fake smile." Even in China today, you can hear jokes about
foreignors told openly in public; and the TV stations, they have air-ed many
anti-foreign movies/programs. Of course, on the outside China is still very
friendly, because it needs an economic market..
But other than that... :) ... :(

Thus I believe it is usually the first-generation that brings this conservative
(and sometimes racist) attitude to America. Once he gets here, he sees the
white-power-structure and keeps his fake smile, but otherwise he PROBABLY
despises/dislikes the foreignors.. Sometimes this is passed on to the next
generations, sometimes it isn't. Sometimes the later generations pick up
conservatism from the Americans, but that is usually different from the Chinese
conservatism.

Now, a few unlucky combinations opened up this racism:
1> blacks are not "in power"
2> blacks are very suspicious of asians, and are very open about it
(personally I have never been called names by euro-americans. of course, there
are many euro-american racists, but I suppose they simply chose to avoid
pointless verbal arguments)
Because of this, most asians "dislike" blacks. Note that some of these asians
dislike blacks only because they feel they're threatened, while others (like
the first-generation asian immigrants) have outright racist feelings because
of their culture.
(note: 60% of Asian Americans are first-generation immigrants)

>>
>>it all seems pretty stupid to me, but it's a problem that i've noticed enough
>>in the way asians deal with black people that i presently don't go out of my
>>way to be friends with asians that i don't know; mainly because its just not
>>worth the hassle of dealing with the potential crap.  this was *definitely*
>>not the case in the past; when i went to mit some of my best friends *really*
>>were asians, mostly or chinese origin.  maybe, for this reason i'm less negative
>>of chinese people than i am of japanese, koreans, and vietnamese.
>>
>
>  It seems to me that the longer the Asian American's family has been in
>  America, the less prejudiced they are against Blacks and Hispanics.  Perhaps
>  your experience correlates to the fact that most of the Japanese,
>  Koreans, and Vietnamese you meet are recent immigrants.  Also, are you
>  sure they are Asian Americans, or Asians that are studying here.  Asian
>  Americans usually have gone to elementary school, jr. high, high school
>  here and have experienced prejudice first hand.  I don't think 3rd generation
>  Japanese-Americans are very prejudiced in my experience.  However my
>  Japanese roommate (from Japan) was prejudiced against almost anyone except
>  for other Japanese (of the highest caste) and whites.  She called the
>  campus police because a Black student was sitting in his car waiting for
>  his girlfriend in front of our dorm.  When the campus police called back
>  I told them to forget about it, but they still went and harrassed the guy.
>  She also said that Koreans were all stupid and deserved to be conquered.
>  What I'm trying to say is that you should distinguish between Asians
>  from Asia and Asian Americans.  Not all Asian Americans are recent immigrants
>  who come here trying to impress the white man.
>
>  As for Arthur, I don't know what his excuse is.  I don't know if he was
>  born here, or came here for college...

I agree with you again, Japanese-culture (and a few others in Asia) are very
racist, but that does not make the Japanese-Americans racist.
In fact, I believe most Japanese-Americans today are Democrats.
(most Korean-Americans are Republicans, because of political situations)

Ning Wang