From: lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich)
Newsgroups: alt.feminism,soc.men,soc.women
Subject: Re: Female "Wiring"
Date: 16 Oct 92 01:58:55 GMT
Organization: LLNL


	[RS, There you go again with the newsgroups line, putting in
soc.men, but not soc.women...]

In article <1992Oct13.182410.9922@netcom.com> sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) writes:
>In article <s63JsB2w164w@cellar.org> revpk@cellar.org (Brian 'Rev P-K' Siano) writes:
$         Also note that Souljah does not generalize about the entire feminist 
$ movement from her experience with a number of people she perceives as being 
$ lesbians.
>

>interviewer asks her (paraphrasing), "But lesbianism is only a small part
>of feminism, isn't it?", to which she replies (again paraphrasing) "That's
>not what *I* have seen".

	And you take her _very_ seriously here? Sister Souljah also
claims that, although there are some nice white people, there are no
good ones. So I think that should make one alert for outre' claims
about white people from her. I may add that she also believes that
Jesus Christ had been black, which, though not impossible, is rather
unlikely.

	I asked in soc.motss about SS's charge that white feminists'
main interest in black women is to seduce them, and nobody was
familiar with it.

$         What we have here is an ancient slander against feminists-- that 
$ they're all man-hating deisel dykes who just don't know what's good for'em. 
$ And considering Sheaffer's failure to make any kind of distinction between 
$ feminists and lesbians, I think it's a fair bet that that's precisely how he 
$ perceives them.
>
>Yes, an ancient slander from a dyed-in-the-wool misogynist reactionary
>like Sistah Souljah, a black racist. Of course, not all feminists are
>lesbians, but their LEADERSHIP overwhelmingly tends to be. Like
>Patricia Ireland, the head man of NOW, and Robin Morgan, editor of Ms.
>magazine, certainly the two most visible and supposedly "moderate" positions.
>And many, many more feminist movers and shakers, all the way down to
>Andrea Dworkin, everybody's favorite fat leather dyke. (I heard her
>give a talk once. Of course, she came dressed in leather, extra-large
>size. What surprised me was that she looked, rather than your typical
>angry, very sad, sad, sad, as if she were about to cry.)

	Patricia Ireland is an admitted bisexual, not a woman who
prefers mostly women.

	I don't know a thing about Andrea Dworkin's _real_ sexual
preference. Where has she stated which sex she prefers to make love
to? Yes, I know all about her rants about heterosexual sex being rape,
but for all we know, she could have little personal interest in sex.

	And a lot of lesbians don't hate men at all; you should try to
find out in soc.motss sometime.

	Susie Bright, Betty Friedan, and some other feminists point
out that the worst man-haters are heterosexual women in traditionalist
roles; they are the ones with the most to complain about :-). The men,
in response, typically scapegoat "feminists".

	You should read "Susie Sexpert's Lesbian Sex World" and "Susie
Bright's Sexual Reality", for one lesbian's perspective; she shows
_no_ sign of hating men, only of sexually preferring women. When
discussing men fascinated with lesbianism, she seems rather bemused.

	In one of these books, SB relates an amusing anecdote about
the kind of PC in certain feminist circles. She recalls one
self-proclaimed "lesbian feminist" denouncing her for having any
interest in men. SB reports that she moved to a Chicago suburb, got
married, and had kids, while SB herself moved on to become a lesbian
sex expert.

	For her part, she says of heterosexual sex that the
possibility of procreation is a big responsibility, something she does
not have to think about when she has sex with another woman.

$         For Robert's comments about 'white feminists/lesbians' to have ANY 
$ validity at all, one would have to believe that lesbians are not entitled to 
$ the same avenues of political organization that straights or gay men are-- as 
$ though they're some weird, alien creature that must be guarded against. 
>
>Huh?
>
>All I'm saying is that heterosexual women (the vast, vast majority) shouldn't
>look to lesbians for advice on how to deal with men. The apple they will
>hand you will be poisoned.  As for the lesbians, just leave 'em alone.
>They'll keep each other happy.

	Good grief! There are hordes of heterosexual feminists. Among
names familiar to me are Betty Friedan, Gloria Steinem, and Susan
Faludi.

/Loren
Newsgroups: alt.feminism