From: thietaniemi@cc.helsinki.fi
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Ethnic violence in ESTONIA?
Date: 11 Oct 92 22:32:51 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki

In article <Bvt9yr.2IC@apollo.hp.com>, goykhman_a@apollo.hp.com 
(Alex Goykhman) writes:
> In article <1992Oct8.131103.1@cc.helsinki.fi> thietaniemi@cc.helsinki.fi 
writes:
> ....
>>There are very few jews in Estonia. One of the first things the Savisaar
>>government did in 1989, was to secure them their rights to form associations.
>>There is no "jewish problem" in Estonia. Just your nightmares.
>>
>>with the best regards
>>
>>Tapani Hietaniemi, University of Helsinki

I still stick to my opinion expressed above: as an eager reader of Estonian
press, I have not noticed anything antisemitic in them. Neither I have seen any
notices of Estonian antisemitic violence in Finnish press (which is very keen
to point the bad sides of the Estonians). The other countries do not follow the
Estonian development so near, therefore these should be the best sources.

The accusations about antisemitism, not to speak anything of violence, sound 
surprising to me, when not absurd.

However, there might be some new skinhead-type activism, which I am not
aware of. That would not surprise me: in post-soviet conditions everywhere
we will be witnessing more outbursts of juvenile reactionary right wing
militantism combined with all kinds of racism, I am afraid.

Anyway, your subject was: ethnic VIOLENCE against jews in Estonia. 
Nevertheless, even when attacking Estonia you refer only to one violent
act that had happened in reality.

So, even you are not claiming that there would be ethnic violence against
jews in Estonia as a mass phenomenon.

> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     RUSSIAN JEWS FLEE DANGER IN ESTONIA
>     By Jonathatan Broder
>     "WE" Washington Bureau, 09/21-10/04, 1992
>     (excerpted without permission)
> 
> Estonia's Jewish Community is fleeing back to Russia to escape anti-semitic
> attacks and new citizenship laws that discriminate against those who do not
> speak Estonian.

First, I would like to know something about this "Bureau". The last sentence
is very typical to those reactionary groups in Russian parliament....
I think this "Bureau" is framing Estonians and spreading disinformation.

> ....
> "The fact that Jews are leaving is not only because they are Jewish but
> because they are Russian" said a US official that closely monitors events
> in Estonia.
 
During this year, many Russian speakers are leaving Estonia. This is correct.

> But according to B'nai Brith, and American Jewish organization that looks
> out for the welfare of Jews worlwide, the rising tide of Estonian
> nationalism also has turned the Jewish community into a target of anti-
> Semitic attacks.

Here, no information is given. Just empty accusations. Combining
antisemitism and Estonian nationalism together is just ignorant.

> 
> In the past few weeks, Estonian nationalists has desecrated more than
> 80 Jewish graves in the central city of Tartu where assailants also
> firebombed a Jewish cultural center.  The desecrations were the fourth
> such incident since last November.

As you were answered already, it is suspected that some Russian speakers
might have done this - there certainly is much anti-semitism in Skt.
Petersburg! I would like to emphasize that we do not know who is behind these
detestable deeds. Probably some Estonian or Russian lunatics, which will
be arrested by Estonian police when caught.

Firebombing a Jewish cultural centre was totally new to me. I have not read 
about it from the press. Unfortunately I can't call Tartu today. But I will
clarify this theme later on. This interests me: it might be a sign of
skinhead-activities I am waiting to emerge in Estonia. Accusing "Estonian
nationalists" in this context is just ignorant. Estonian nationalists are
interested in restituting the Estonian republic. Antisemitists persecute
the jews. Do not mix them up, if you want to argue something in an intellectual
manner.

> U.S. State Department officials say a number of anti-Semitic articles 
> appeared in mass-circulation Estonian newspapers, including one that
> said the Talmud, the book of Judaism's teachings, urges Jews to kill
> gentiles [sounds familiar?].  Several members of Estonia's Jewish 
> community received telephone death threats, the officials say.
 
In which newspapers? Estonia has the freedom of speech nowadays, so even
this kind of rubbish could be published anywhere by any lunatic.
It is possible, that this kind of articles have been written. But I deeply
suspect that any major newspaper would print such stuff in Estonia.
Name the newspapers, and I check the facts. Besides, were those alleged 
articles written in Estonian or in Russian? Are you accusing the Estonian
or Russian press in Estonia?

Maybe somebody has received threats by telephone. Such actitivity will
be criminally prosecuted in Estonia. And: in which language were the threats 
expressed?

> "The Jews of Estonia are frightened, and they are leaving" said Buzzy
> Gordon, a B'nai Brith spokesman.
> ....

No new information. Just empty accusations.

> Only 2,500 Jews remain among Tallinn's 600,000 residents.  That number,
> B'nai Brith says, is less than half of the Jews who made up the centuries-
> old Estonian Jewish community only a year ago.

This is the only interesting piece of information. I must check some statistics
by Tallinn officials. You claim that a half of Tallinn jewish population
that amounted 5000 in the year 1991 has moved from Tallinn (certainly not 
towards Russia!). I am not even sure how we could know that... Are there 
statistics about "jews" in Estonian public offices? I doubt that but I check 
it anyway in the very near future.

I suspect the information of this "Bureau". It does not even know how many
residents Tallinn has: 484,400 (in the year 1990).

 
> The attacks and threats against the Jewish community appear to have
> intensified after Jewish leaders in Tartu protested officially
> sanctioned plans to celebrate the 50th anniversary of the Estonian
> Legion - a group of Estonians who fought against the Soviets during
> WWII on the side of the Nazis.
> 

Tartu and the Tartu University have many famous jewish scholars that
decided to move to Tartu from Russia because of Russian anti-semitism.

I must check this "planned" celebration of Estonian legion. 
It sounds irritating and shameful. But you are not claiming that
this kind of celebration has taken place, I must emphasize.

> The Estonian Legion became the 20th Division of the SS, whose special
> Einzatzgruppen commando units were responsible for the roundup and
> execution of hundreds of thousands of Jews in the Baltics and former
> Soviet Union.  After the war, some legionnaires fought a guerilla
> war against the Soviets before they were crushed.
> ....

I have no reason whatsoever to "explain" the deeds of Estonian (or Finnish
or British etc.) fascists. They could drop dead so much I care.

Claiming that the guerilla warfare in Estonia against the reds was "fascist"
activity is ignorant. Of course, even the fascists might have done some
resistance before they were crushed. And I can't rule out the possibility that
some individual guerillas had previously fought with the fascists (and had 
therefore no future in Stalinistic Estonia).
 
> Contrary to what Tapani Hietaniemi claims, there is a "jewish problem" 
> in Estonia, but thanks to Estonian nationalists at home and abroad,
> a final "solution" seems to be within the reach.

You should be ashamed of posting this kind of nationalist hatred propaganda!

- No record of ethic violence against the jews in Estonia was given by you,
if we exclude the firebomb in Tartu with no casualties. This detestable deed
might have taken place but it does not prove that jews would be persecuted in 
Estonia. It would only prove that there were some underground racist activities
rising, which already in itself would be unfortunate indeed.

- There is no anti-semitist legislation in Estonia neither antisemitism is
supported any way by the Estonian government (Estonia had a left-wing
government, by the way, until previous week.).

- No Estonian party in Estonian parliament has presented anti-semitist
slogans. I am tempted to say that there are no anti-semitists in parliament,
but I do not know all 101 deputies thoroughly enough.

- Anti-semitism is no discussed issue in Estonian politics.


It's just some reactionary Russian circles that keep up painting the
portrait of Dorian Gray.


with the best regards
the observer
Tapani Hietaniemi, University of Helsinki
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.soviet