HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: TAYAO@MTUS5.BITNET (Tao Yao)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: test
Date: 7 Sep 92 17:25:01 GMT
Organization: Computing Technology Services, Michigan Technological Univ.

ignore
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.hongkong
From: dht@cs.mu.OZ.AU (Joyous Dave baby)
Subject: Territory of Ancient China : Xia Dynasty
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 14:21:33 GMT

**Period:

2183 B.C. -> 1751 B.C.

**Dynasty:

Xia Dynasty, the first dynasty in Chinese History.

**Area under Central Control:

As North as modern Beijing, as South as modern ShangHai,
covering most of Long River fertile area.

**Area under Central Influence:

none.

**Neighbouring States/Tribes/Civilizations:

(currently known as) Mongolians to the North started to become a threat.
Tribe in the South occupying modern Province of HuNan (south of lake).

-- 
1)-----------------------Rev 6:8 "... They were given authority over a quarter
of the Earth, to kill by the sword, by famine, by plague, and wild beasts."
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.taiwan
From: elelyc@nuscc.nus.sg (Y.C. Liang)
Subject: Why don't you stay ? 
Organization: National University of Singapore
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 09:15:57 GMT

> > From: s9874194@deimos.ucc.umass.edu (s9874194)
> > Sender: usenet@nic.umass.edu (USENET News System)
> > References: <BuCEr5.JB9@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> <1992Sep10.063228.27583@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> <1992Sep10.154925.1543@nntpd.lkg.dec.com>
> > Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 20:17:00 GMT
> > 
> > ....
> > ==========================================================================
> > Treaty is something between two governments with full sovereignty.
> > How many people in this WORLD still think that Taipei is a legitimate
> > and sovereign government? If not, how can one sign a tready with it?
> > Not to mention Beijing!!!!!
> > c.q.
> > ========================================================================
> > ....
>

Beijing government controls most of the land and calls itself "People's
republic", just like North Korea does.  Taipei government controls a
small amount of land and remains "Republic", just like South Korea
except the land size is very small.  BECAUSE OF THE LAND SIZE, people
tend to think "People's republic" represents China.

However, Taiwanese government has its own independant political and
financial systems.   How to verify this ?  There are several simple ways
which I may be able to tell Mr. c.q.

(1) Bring any Taiwanese currency(cash) to any banks in Asia to see if
    they accept them as a legal tender.  I will say yes.  They accept
    it.

(2) Bring any Taiwanese passport(with name "republic of china" on cover)
    to any consulate to get visa to any country, to see if they accept
    it as a legal travel document.  I will say yes.  They accept it.

(3) Ask any travel agency to see if "China Airlines" flys to Taipei or
    Beijing.  They will tell you, it flys to Taipei.

(4) Ask anyone "is Taiwan a communist country", people will say no and
    say "I think you mixed it up with China, China is a communist
    country".  Doesn't that mean it all.   

(5) After Tien-ann-men crackdown, all overseas Chinese students were 
    more or less granted a visa to stay overseas.  What they mean 
    "Chinese students" are not "Taiwanese students".  They understand that 
    Beijing government has no whatsoever control on Taiwanese, therefore they
    are not in danger and they do not need any visa for humanity
    protection.  

I do quite agree with Mr. Alan Yang's posting earlier.  If you truely
believe that China is a great place to stay, why don't you stay.  If you
guys do not like to stay and ask (or suggest) Taiwanese to stay, that is
too much.  

Of course, if China becomes a better country which you guys like to
stay, Taiwanese will go over and stay even you guys try to stop them.


Xref: sparky soc.culture.china:25075 soc.culture.taiwan:13017 soc.culture.hongkong:10574
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.hongkong
From: liuyh@vis.toronto.edu (Yuanhui Liu)
Subject: Re: Territory of Ancient China : Tang Dynasty
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto
Date: 8 Sep 92 20:02:53 GMT

In article <1992Sep8.021017.7447@leland.Stanford.EDU> claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
>In article <9225200.21408@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU> dht@cs.mu.OZ.AU (Joyous Dave baby) writes:
>>**Period:
>>
>>618 A.D. -> 907 A.D.
>>
>>**Dynasty:
>>
>>Tang Dynasty (everyone's favourity Dynasty, of course!!!  :-)  )
>
>Not mine. 1/2 :-)  For starters, it was a very immoral dynasty.  A dynasty
>that has an emperor (Li Long Ji) who took his daughter-in-law (Yang Yu Huan)
>away from his son is definitely not going to be my favorite dynasty.
>>Areas of Afghanistan and central Asia are lost.
>>Mongolia revived and Tang lost Outter Mongolia.
>>Southern Korea is also lost.  But Tang took over
>>Manchuria.
>
In comparison, Tang Dynasty was an enlighened area.  It was by far
my favorite dynasty.  doesn't matter which dynasty, the emperors
always screw around, Li Long Ji was a famous one, it's not like
emperors in other dynasties didn't do this sort of things.  

You can say it's immoral, then what do you say for today's USA?  
Tang was enlightened, women were not restricted to their homes, so 
inevitably some of them were having a wild sex-life just like
their noble husbands.  In comparison, southern Song was  
very strict in its moral code, but it is the wimpiest dynasty of them
all!  I doubt it is your favorite dynasty.   

>More like, "the southern tip of Manchuria," or current-day Liao Ning.
>
>>820 A.D.
>>Tibet has taken over XingJiang and GanSu.  And bordered
>>with Mongolia.
>
>Closer in stock to Turks than to Mongolians.
>
>After reading some of your posts, I have a feeling that your sources might have
>been influenced by a will to glorify China's past, so they usually exaggerated
>its borders and influences.


Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: s9874194@phobos.ucc.umass.edu (s9874194)
Subject: Re: Insensitive mainland chauvinist view. (Was: Who Cares 150 F-16s.)
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1992 02:06:00 GMT

In article <1992Sep15.142917.21464@news.acns.nwu.edu>, usenet@news.acns.nwu.edu (Usenet on news.acns) writes...
>In article <14SEP199223090827@deimos.ucc.umass.edu>  
>s9874194@deimos.ucc.umass.edu (s9874194) writes:
>> In article <1992Sep14.154244.933@news.acns.nwu.edu>, usenet@news.acns.nwu.edu  
>(Usenet on news.acns) writes...
>> >In article <79611@ut-emx.uucp> joe@astro.as.utexas.edu (Joe Wang) writes:
>> >> In article <1992Sep11.225319.9934@news.acns.nwu.edu>  
>usenet@news.acns.nwu.edu  
>> >(Usenet on news.acns) writes:
>> 
>> Carl, 
>> It seems that you realy believe election. I guess you remember
>> that Hitler was elected too, Right? 
>> Any comments about that?
>> But I am not saying elections are bad, either.
>> c.q.
> 
>Well, Don't forget the senior Chinese officials and representatives in the  
>parliament ( Ren2 Min2 Dai4 Biao3) are also elected. Do you really believe that  
>they are elected?
> 
>Carl

Wait! The elections you mentioned have to be put into quotation
mark But A. Hitler was really elected in a very popular way.
He was very very popular in Germeny in the early 30's. He was as
popular as Mao was in 60's. There is another person you should
know who is also electedin a great democratic country: J. R. McCarthy! 
Read some history about this.

c.q.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: 129.83.161.10 (H. Chao)
Subject: Shen Tong - idiot? hero?  
Organization: MITRE
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 14:41:45 GMT

Shen Tong - a idiot? a hero? a pawn to test the depth of China's political
reform? or a bargain chip for trade deficit?
From: lix@yangtze.bu.edu (Xiaowen Li)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Chinese culture
Date: 16 Sep 92 01:00:59 GMT
Organization: Boston University

In article <9226010.20645@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU> dht@cs.mu.OZ.AU (Joyous Dave baby) writes:
>lix@murray.bu.edu (Xiaowen Li) writes:
>(deleted)
>I like to point out that it has to do with the economic system, NOT
>the Chinese culture.
>
>Take a look at HKG, Taiwan, Singapore, and parts of California, and
>try to tell me Chinese Culture makes people poor!
>

Yeah, I took a look and still I think there are something very wrong in
our culture :-(

This is not the first time some friends using HK, TW, and Singapore as
examples to convince me. But they always gave up when I pointed out all
these examples had history of being colony. Some new elements were forced
into our old culture. We can either lean, or be staisfied and wait for
another period of being colonized.

California, a new example. There was a town there called "Go" and a
nearby town called "No", people sometime called the area "Go-No". I
am not sure how it was named. A story (story only!!!) said:

100+ years ago, some Chinese developed the area "Go" with their hard labor.
But they don't know they needed to registrate their ownership and paid
the Federal government $1 per acre as registration fee. So, somedays
the legal owners came and asked them "Go"!

They did not have choice and went to a nearby still-free land, and worked
hard again. Later, when some white men came and asked them to move away,
They said "No"! Because they now have registered their ownership and did
not want to move. Interesting story, isn't it? Young fellows may noy know
the painful experience we had at that time, but don't tell me it is our
culture which conquered part of California:-(

>Many people (from the West) have suggested that Chinese Culture actually
>makes people rich!  What made Mainland poor has a lot to do with the
>"cultural" revolution that happened.  Sometimes, I wonder if Mainland
>Culture is Chinese Culture, and that REAL Chinese Culture can only
>be found in HKG or Taiwan.

Ask James (from TW), Steve Wu (from HK), they are very good at what is
Chinese culture. I bet they will tell you Old Lix not bad either:-)
Chinese culture is very good, we are responsible to keep it alive and
more importantly, make it young.
--
From: usenet@news.acns.nwu.edu (Usenet on news.acns)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Insensitive mainland chauvinist view. (Was: Who Cares 150 F-16s.)
Date: 11 Sep 92 22:34:03 GMT
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois, USA

In article <1992Sep11.182537.7218@ms.uky.edu> gang@ms.uky.edu (Gang Li) writes:
> usenet@news.acns.nwu.edu (Usenet on news.acns) writes:
> 
> >Why you guys are so afraid of letting people choose their future (  
apparently  
> >people in PRC can't vote for their future now). Why you guys are so angry  
about  
> >this. In fact, I don't think people in Guangdong or Fujian would choose to  
> >leave now. You guys acted as if they would choose to break away if they are  
> >given the chance. 
> 
> >Oh, I see, deep in your hearts, you even think many Chinese would leave as  
you  
> >guys and China will disappear. That's why you are so afraid. Don't worry.  
> >Things are not so bad yet. 
> 
> >Carl
> 
> Don't be so sure, learn something about US civil war. I begain to understand
> why Americans are still talking about this a lot nowadays.

Why shall we alway copy the US? Each time we discuss something about China, you  
guys often compare the issue with that in the US. The US is not the standard. 

As for the US civil war, if you had let all the black people vote then, I think  
the majority of the population in the south would have support Lincoln's  
decision. Do you know the difference? Think about it!

Carl
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: xzh@eddy.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Xiang Zhou)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Insensitive mainland chauvinist view. (Was: Who Cares 150 F-16s.)
Date: 15 Sep 1992 14:43:02 GMT
Organization: Brown University
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: eddy.cfm.brown.edu


In article <1992Sep14.215013.16656@tamsun.tamu.edu>, x0y3510@tamuts.tamu.edu (Xuejun Yang) writes:
|> In article <1992Sep14.165717.22137@ms.uky.edu> gang@ms.uky.edu (Gang Li) writes:
|> >usenet@news.acns.nwu.edu (Usenet on news.acns) writes:
|> >
|> >>As long as you believe most people are not fool, then let them choose future  
|> >>for themselves. If the majority of the not-fool-people choose to leave, do you  
|> >	The logic problem here is the majority of what, should the majority
|> >	of the country follow the majority of a province? Let history
|> >	decide whether a country should exist, we have the right to select
|> >	not sufferring, if we are the majority. As whether people are fool
|> >	or not which depends on your standard.
|> >>see there is a very very serious problem in China. If it were so (I doubt it  
|> >>seriously), then there would be no need for a country call China exit in the  
|> >>world.
|> >
|> >>Carl
|> 
|> This Carl is a fundamentalist. He uses extremely simple logic to solve
|> this complex problem. He lives in a fantacy world, not seen what the
|> reality is? He is very childish. 
|> 
    I hope more netters will realize this and stop wasting time on him.
|>
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 22:59:14 EDT
From: <XXX100@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject:   An possible result of Shen Tong's arrest

This event, in my view, will close soon with a speech by released Shen Tong
like Liu Xiaobao. Reasons: A) Police accused him of illigal activities during
his stay in Beijing ( after he went back from U.S., not the periodof June 4,
1989). B) I don't think Shen was so cautiousless that he got caught by police.
Just because he knew well that his every guesture was under the watch of CCP.
He would not leave any thing to CCP as an excuse of his arrest. The other
two students arrested with Shen knew nothing about the game.C) This is
a well rehersaled show of the fundation. CCP is in the trap. D) How would
CCP get out of it ? Admit voilation of Shen's right or say Wu4 Huei4?
No way, it's not CCP style. So a speech by Shen becomes a must. E) What
kind of speech could be?That will be very very tricky. F) An assumption
made is that Shen accepts to give a speech. However would he? Depends on
what kind of speech CCP asks for. Finally you can imagine what Shen would
say.
X Xu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.japan
From: zzuo@iastate.edu (Zhiqi Zuo)
Subject: Re: Japanese Imperial Army Was Invited by CCP?
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 22:39:31 GMT


The above speculation is confirmed by my grandchildren,
who were on the scene, on that day of 1937, at the Marco 
Polo Bridge.

At the time, CCP forced a couple of the Japanese 
soldiers to make some water. Since they were too slow 
in doing that...(you know what happened.)


Xref: sparky soc.culture.china:25453 soc.culture.taiwan:13278
From: ychen@sp1.csrd.uiuc.edu (Yung-Chin Chen)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Insensitive mainland chauvinist view. (Was: Who Cares 150 F-16s.)
Date: 13 Sep 92 17:02:14 GMT
	<1992Sep11.133443.5656@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>
	<18qcsjINN8p4@stanley.cis.Brown.EDU>
	<1992Sep11.200737.18320@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>
	<18t03tINNlk3@stanley.cis.Brown.EDU>
Organization: /homes/ychen/.organization

In article <18t03tINNlk3@stanley.cis.Brown.EDU> xzh@eddy.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Xiang Zhou) writes:

   In article <1992Sep11.200737.18320@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, ghe@nyx.cs.du.edu (George He) writes:

   |> Those big China chauvinists are not elligible as Chinese.
   |> Insulting them is not equivalent to insulting Chinese, unless
   |> you believe ALL Chinese are chauvinists.
   |> 
   |> I thought PRC's education needs improvement,
   |> at least in the training of basic logic thinking.
   |> Probably those commies rulers don't want you guys to become too smart.
   |> 
   |> I don't think all Chinese are chauvinists. 
   |> Hope more and more mainlanders realize and respect Taiwan people's choice.

>     This time you behave yourself a little but still have much to learn. You
>   talk about respect and choice. What about your respect and other people's choise.
>   When someone has a view which you don't like, you regard him as a pig, you do
>   have a good training of logic! "If you don't like something done to yourself, then
>   you don't do that to others". I hope that I am not wasting my time here and
>    onemore
>   Chinese knows how to behave. 

Really? So do you have comment about your comrade J. Chen, who claimed
that all TIers must be executed without execuse? Do you have comment
about your fellows in SCC who use a lot of dirty words on the poor
Norway guy?  To use dirty words on someone who has a different point
of view is not appropriate. However, see who did it first. For the
F-16 aircraft issues, check those posts from mainlanders. Their
attitudes (not all of them) are disgusting! If you do not respect us,
do not expect that we, Taiwanese (all people living in Taiwn), respect
you.

ychen

	
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: usenet@news.acns.nwu.edu (Usenet on news.acns)
Subject: Re: F-16's fear?
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois, USA
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 14:52:28 GMT

In article <65500109@acf3.NYU.EDU> yangze@acf3.NYU.EDU (Ze Yang, , , ) writes:
> usenet@news.acns.nwu.edu (Usenet on news.acns) writes:
> 
> >Since you had bravely cut your wounded arm to survive yourself, you are not  
> >supposed to get it back. Check your logics! Next time, say something  
logical.
> 
> Long time no c, Mr. Carl, my argument is logic enough, Taiwan is a part
> of China, we got it back when we defeated Japan in WWII.
> 
> By the way, when did you learned logic? You took some course in
> the missing period? but definitely either you failed the class
> or the school just care your tuition.
> You have to take 10 more classed, Mr. Carl.
> 
> >Carl
> 
> Ze Yang


You compared Chinese army's withdraw from Taiwan to a brave man's cutting off  
his arm. Now, think about it, if a man cut off his arm to survive himself, is  
he supposed to get that arm back? Unless he is crazy or day-dreaming for  
miracle.  So again, check your logics. If you really want to make comparison,  
choose something more appropriate.

By the way, you have broken your promise. My friend and I bet $5 on whether you  
would reply my post. (Since last time I asked him to check your pingyin, my  
friend from Beijing Normal University has become a regular reader of the  
soc.culture.china.) Thanks for letting me win. I knew you would reply. That's  
your personality. Boy's like you would fight to death to save his face. It's  
good though.

Carl
From: x0y3510@tamuts.tamu.edu (Xuejun Yang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Michael Chang in US Open Semi-Final!
Date: 13 Sep 92 21:55:19 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: ~/lib/organization

In article <BuFv47.85z@news.orst.edu> heathd@ucs.orst.edu (Du Shi-hua Heath) writes:
>>>	Sampras:	second generation from Greek
>>
>>     Does Lendl become a citizen of US?
>>    I guess he is still keeping Czech citizenship
>>    even though he lives here over 10 years. Patriot?
>I heard that Czechoslovakia is going to split into two countries late this
>year.  Which nationality will he be about that?

I heard on TV Ivan IS INDEED A US citizen now. He was naturalized only
one month ago.(?). 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: falk2@seas.gwu.edu (James Falk)
Subject: Re: To those pro-Shen Tong guys
Organization: George Washington University
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 09:41:10 GMT


I don't know Shen Tong personally.  What I know is that he went to Beijing
to want democracy loudly and then lost his own democracy.

It is not always easy to find someone's purpose in terms of his behavior.
Suppose that he went back for the purpose of democracy of chinese.  Then
the mission seems not effective and a little funny, which certainly leads
to a contradiction.
Suppose not.  Then for what purpose?  It is risky and may not be worth.
So I guess the answer is no purpose.  He just did what his adviser expects
him to do.  In such a case, he seems to be a good and brave student.

Someone may enlighten this reasoning.

                                      
... J. Liu,  I am using my friend's account.

P.S.  I happen to have several D-fighter friends and they all happen to
      be old-line opportunists.  I have to admit that they are quite smart.
From: yangze@acf3.NYU.EDU (Ze Yang, , , )
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: F-16's fear?
Date: 8 Sep 92 23:28:00 GMT
Organization: New York University

cyc@z.eecs.umich.edu (Yi-Chieh Chang) writes:

>Even so, they only recognized what ROC has lost to PRC, such as mainland
>China, not what ROC still owned. It's true that PRC is now recognized as

Only a small pecentage of people think there is such a thing called
ROC, all others think of GMD as a rebel group, but they have control
over Taiwan, just like Philipine Communist gurrillas have controls
over part of that country.

>Yi-Chieh

Ze Yang
From: reus@klein.euromath.dk (Jens Peter Reus Christensen)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Classical Stories!???
Date: 8 Sep 92 11:58:20 GMT
Distribution: soc.culture.china
Organization: University of Copenhagen, Dept. of Math.

I would be thankful if anybody could give me a good reference
for a collection of classical political/historical Stories of
China. Comments and notes fine but the collection should NOT
primarily be Scientific History but throw light on Confucian and
general Chinese (classical) mentality. The language must be english
translation.
Thanks in advance!
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|  Jens Peter Reus Christensen   |                                         |
|  Associate professor, Dr. Phil.|                                         |
|  Department of mathematics     | e-mail:          reus@math.ku.dk        |
|  University of Copenhagen      |                                         |
|  Universitetsparken 5          | phone:           +45 3135 3133 ext. 458 |
|  DK-2100 Copenhagen            | fax:                      +45 3135 4254 |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|  Disclaimer: Except when explicitly stated otherwise any message         |
|  with this signature is the authors purely private responsibility.       | 
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|  Motto : For everyone who has will be given more, and he will have       |
|  an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken     |
|  from him.  Matthew principle - Matth.Ch.25 v.29                         |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|





















































--
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|  Jens Peter Reus Christensen   |                                         |
|  Associate professor, Dr. Phil.|                                         |
|  Department of mathematics     | e-mail:          reus@math.ku.dk        |
|  University of Copenhagen      |                                         |
|  Universitetsparken 5          | phone:           +45 3135 3133 ext. 458 |
|  DK-2100 Copenhagen            | fax:                      +45 3135 4254 |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|  Disclaimer: Except when explicitly stated otherwise any message         |
|  with this signature is the authors purely private responsibility.       | 
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|  Motto : For everyone who has will be given more, and he will have       |
|  an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken     |
|  from him.  Matthew principle - Matth.Ch.25 v.29                         |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china