HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kutluk@ccl.umist.ac.uk (Kutluk Ozguven)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.turkish
Subject: The 99.9 %.    (was:  Muslims "Slaughter Their Own People" )
Date: 9 Sep 92 19:45:56 GMT
Organization: Manchester Computing Centre

In <1992Aug26.182530.15133@husc3.harvard.edu> stojanov@husc8.harvard.edu (Milan Stojanovic) writes:


>The INDEPENDENT
>22.August 1992.
>Published in London

>Front Page

>         MUSLIMS 'SLAUGHTER THEIR OWN PEOPLE'

>--- Bosnia bread queue massacre was propaganda ploy, UN told ----
>From
>Leonard Doyle in New York

[..]

-------------------------------

The article, as many have read, had no proof or evidence other than
hearsay from some anonymous UN sources, nor The Independent have produced
any supporting article or evidence later on. Reading all major UK
papers I haven't seen any article of similar perspective either. Also
the controversial headline of the article is far away from the
realtively caucious content.

Keep in mind that there have been hundreds of article in UK newspapers
since the holocaust started. With daily reasons there may be one or
two isolate ideas, but clearly the overwhelming majority of the UK papers say
just the opposite, i.e the barbarism of the Serbian army, and of
course, the campaigners. 

We have the collection of *all* critical articles from major UK papers
since the start of the crisis, and can eargerly photocopy and post
them for OCR puposes. 

If the Milan Stajanovich thinks that he can illusion the net by 
sending Serbian-origin analysts' isolates, or the exceptional 0.01 %, 
we keep the non-Serbian westerners', and the remaining 99.9 %, which show 
neither this is anything other than ruthless massacre nor the Bosnian
Muslims are related with anything fundementalist; two facts very well
in the knowledge of everyone including Mr Stajanovich or his Greek
dame-de-honours. 

With Regards and Restraint

Kutluk Ozguven
From: draskovi@usc.edu (Zoran Draskovic)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
Subject: Camps
Date: 13 Sep 1992 17:58:29 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu


[ Politika, Sep. 10. 1992. ]

             A TRIAL BEFORE AN INTERNATIONAL COURT

    Yugoslav Government sources reveal that FR Yugoslavia
will ask that all those personalities that have launched
the fabrications on the concentracion-camps in Yugoslavia
be brought before an international court.
    Lately many lists of concentration camps in Yugoslavia,
including the number of prisoners have been circulated.
Federal Premier Panic was forced to personally inspect three
such "camps", where according to the authors of the
information, almost half of the prisoners were suposed to be
detained. As the Yugoslav and international public well
know, Premier Panic verified the information on those three
camps are - a lie.
    The same conclusion has been reached by the CSCE
Missions that visited FR Yugoslavia in the past several
weeks. They, too did not find any trace of concentracion-camps
or prisoners.
    Information on concentration-camps circled the world and
caused major damage to FR Yugoslavia. Denials of their
existence have been discretely published only here and
there. Even the heads of delegations and missions that
visited FR Yugoslavia did not take a clear stand when they
realized that there are no concentration camps in FR
Yugoslavia.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
From: naumoski@cs.ruu.nl (Goce Naumoski)
Subject: Greece and democracy
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 08:23:54 GMT
Organization: Utrecht University, Dept. of Computer Science

I'd like to say a few words about the democracy in Greece.

Yesterday evening (8 September) from 20.25 to 21.00 (7.25-8pm GMT) 
on the Dutch television channel one, in "TIJDSEIN", there was
a story about the Thrace and the Turkish population living there.
They are called "Greek Muslims" by the Greeks, they have no right to
call themselves Turks. The camera-team was everywhere followed by
the Greek secret police (the same as early this year when a Belgian
team has made story about the Macedonians in the Aegean Macedonia).
Evry step of the team has had to be known, their camera was distroyed.
The Greek authorities were saying "The Thrace is Greek, and will
always be Greek" (the same as about Macedonia), and that the West
didn't understand what was happening, and that there was a danger from
the muslims.

We were able to see "a democratic" behavior of a country (EC member),
against the journalists from other EC countries.
It was very interesting.

Regards,
Goce.



PS. For the Greek friends: just keep thinking about the greatest democracy
			   on the world.




Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
From: ohrd!rdowlati@cs.toronto.edu (Ramin Dowlati)
Subject: Re: Canada's voice in Bosnia Conflict (General Lewis MacKenzie)
Organization: Ontario Hydro - Research Division
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 92 15:02:38 GMT

In article <20136@plains.NoDak.edu> malenovi@plains.NoDak.edu (Malenovic Nikola V.) writes:
>In article <1992Sep3.171919.23445@ohrd.uucp> ohrd!rdowlati@cs.toronto.edu (Ramin Dowlati) writes:
>>Shortly after leaving Croatia, 'General' Mackenzie headed for Washington
>>to brief the US armed services committee. Perhaps this tells us something
>>about where he was getting his orders from!
>>
>>-Cheers
>
>But this does not serve your idea that McKenize is 'Serbian terrorist
>mercenary'? I mean he is working for the country that plans to bomb the
>living hell out of Serbia and Montenegro? hm...
>
I don't recall anyone calling McKenzie such a name. You seem to be rather
edgy and jump to conclusions prematurely.
>Besides I thought US is sort of world police... or was it soemthing about
>new world order... hm....
>
The US will police the world only when its own interests are involved. Does
it have any interests in danger in the Balkans?
>Nik
-Cheers
-Ramin
Xref: sparky soc.culture.yugoslavia:8593 rec.travel:13024 rec.misc:224
From: LMWHITE@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Lois White)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia,rec.travel,rec.misc
Subject: Re: Question about use of Cyrillic alphabet
Date: 8 Sep 92 17:11:40 GMT
 <1992Sep7.195805.22088@alw.nih.gov>
Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center

In article <1992Sep7.195805.22088@alw.nih.gov>, pruss@helix.nih.gov (dmitry
pruss) says:
>
>I wonder if the Muslims of ex-Yugoslavia used the Arabic script some 75
>years ago...
>Does anybody know?
>
I can't say that I *know*, but they probably would not have been using Arabic
script, except in the study of the Quran.  Even if they were speaking Turkish
at the time, I think by 75 years ago the Arabic script was no longer used to
write Turkish.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
From: svedja@lysator.liu.se (Dejan Ilic)
Subject: Re: Expulsion of Serbs in Croatia
Organization: Lysator Academic Computer Society, Linkoping University, Sweden
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 18:48:38 GMT

vvrdolja@gumby.Altos.COM (vvrdolja) writes:

>In article <l8giitINN473@alcor.usc.edu>, draskovi@usc.edu (Zoran Draskovic) writes:
>> 
>>  oooo  ----------  oooo
>> o    o |        | o    o  Informacioni Centar Srpskog Sabora
>>      o |        | o       Information Center of the Serbian Council
>> o    o |        | o    o
>>  oooo  |        |  oooo   Safarikova 7, 11000 Belgrade
>> --------        --------
>> |                      |  Phone: ++38-11-321-108
>> |                      |  Fax: ++38-11-320-156
>> |                      |
>> --------        --------  Sluzbeno saopstenje za javnost
>>  oooo  |        |  oooo
>> o    o |        | o    o  Official communique
>>      o |        | o
>> o    o |        | o    o
>>  oooo  ----------  oooo
>>  
>>


>You expect Croats to apologize for something that was done by Ustashe 
>50 years ago, and most Croats opposed to. And how about Serbians apologizing
>for Chetnic's crimes (nowadays and 50 years ago)? You don't even oppose
>them, you support them by posting symbol that reminds croatian people of a
>chetnic's tyranny and tortures performed on them? 

>I wonder what people from Belgrade who are against the war, think about 
>this. This is not the first time that Chetnic's symbols are posted on this 
>group, so I challenge peacefull serbians (if they really exist) to take a 
>stand and show their protest.

>Vesna

Yes he did post the sign that Croats are afraid of but YOUR politicians took back the flag that Nazi-made Croatia had and how should the Serbian people feel ?



Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
From: svedja@lysator.liu.se (Dejan Ilic)
Subject: Re: WHO'S THE BIGGER NAZI?
Organization: Lysator Academic Computer Society, Linkoping University, Sweden
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 18:58:24 GMT

dmatic@athena.mit.edu (Davor Matic) writes:

>In article <14337@goanna.cs.rmit.oz.au>, s902211@yallara.cs.rmit.OZ.AU (Zoran
>Kalenic) writes:
>|>
>|> The part about Serbians acting like nazi's is highly debateable and something
>|> i wont go into here.
>|>

>You make me puke!  The only debatable thing right now is how are Serbs going
>to pull themselves out of the shit they got themselves into and regain the
>trust and respect of the international comunity.  Probably the frist step is 
>by getting rid of people like you that are dragging them deeper into the abys.
>I don't mean kill people like you, but maybe cut your tounges and fingers off
>and send you to an orthodox monastary.  Serbs seem to be better at that kinda 
>measures than diplomacy anyway, so why not make it work for you rather then
>agains you...  :-)

>Reagrds,
>--- Davor

Lokking on your text you remind me of Ustasha & Chetnicks techniques during WWII and their way of haveing fun. And looking on you name i would say that you are a Croat. And you can always discuss about the theme "Who is the war criminal in a civil war".
From: keserovi@ipc2.lat.oz.au (Goran KESEROVIC)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
Subject: Re: Expulsion of Serbs in Croatia
Date: 7 Sep 92 02:31:05 GMT
Organization: Comp Sci, La Trobe Uni, Australia

In article <1583@lysator.liu.se> svedja@lysator.liu.se (Dejan Ilic) writes:
>vvrdolja@gumby.Altos.COM (vvrdolja) writes:
>
>
>>You expect Croats to apologize for something that was done by Ustashe 
>>50 years ago, and most Croats opposed to. And how about Serbians apologizing
>>for Chetnic's crimes (nowadays and 50 years ago)? You don't even oppose
>>them, you support them by posting symbol that reminds croatian people of a
>>chetnic's tyranny and tortures performed on them? 
>
>>I wonder what people from Belgrade who are against the war, think about 
>>this. This is not the first time that Chetnic's symbols are posted on this 
>>group, so I challenge peacefull serbians (if they really exist) to take a 
>>stand and show their protest.
>
>>Vesna
>
>Yes he did post the sign that Croats are afraid of but YOUR politicians took 
>back the flag that Nazi-made Croatia had and how should the Serbian people 
>feel ?

  This is a typically ignorant Serbian comment.       
  FOR YOUR INFORMATION :

   - The Croatian flag is HUNDREDS of years old. - go to Zagreb and have
     a look at the roof of St Marks church - there is a mosaic of the 
     Croatian checkerboard on it that is HUNDREDS of years old.
     Or get a decent history book and READ instead of listening to 
     propaganda.


   - The WW2-NDH flag had a silver "U" (ustasa) on it.  The current flag 
     does not.  The Serbian flag STILL has its fascist symbol on it.


   - The current flag has had the colours of the checkerboard reversed from 
     those on the WW2-NDH flag.

    
   - The Croatian flag was flown DURING the 45 years of Yugoslavia - The
     Serbs did not complain then !!!


   WAKE UP.....
From: pnevmati@milhouse.cs.wisc.edu (Dionisios N. Pnevmatikatos)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia,soc.culture.greek,eunet.politics
Subject: Re: SKOP(L)JE/MACEDONIA: WHAT'S IN A NAME?
Date: 11 Sep 92 21:49:10 GMT
Organization: U of Wisconsin CS Dept

sk@groo.sunbim.be (Sasa Konecni) writes:

>This article brings to attention the fact that the public media in Greece 
>is influnced by Serbian newspapers. This can be seen from the spelling of Skopje.
>Namely, The capital city of Republic of Macedonia is spelled Skopje in the
>Macedonian language. SKOPLJE is the spelling used in Serbia.

Greek public media in general are in Greek, and in Greek Skopje (or Skoplje
if you want) is spelled Skopia (p is a pi). No, in Greek there is no L
anywhere there.

But even if the title was:
	"SKOP(L)JE/MACEDONIA: WHAT'S IN A NAME?"
what do you find wrong? It has both (the L is in parenthesis) it doesn't
have only one of them....

>Sasa.

PS Think twice before jumping to conclusions...
-- 
   Dionisis

+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------------+
| Dionisios N. Pnevmatikatos     | Email: pnevmati@cs.wisc.edu               |
| Computer Sciences Department   | Phone: (1) 608/262 1721, (1) 608/255 0840 |
| University of Wisconsin-Madison| Fax:   (1) 608/262 9777                   |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------------+
From: malenovi@plains.NoDak.edu (Malenovic Nikola V.)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
Subject: old story of self-determination (was: Re: Pure Flame, nothing else Was: Re: The goal of an intervention)
Date: 15 Sep 92 21:26:21 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computing Network

In article <92253.010232ADMN8686@RyeVm.Ryerson.Ca> ADMN8686@RyeVm.Ryerson.Ca writes:
>Actually Milan, Serbs are nothing more than a minority in Bosnia. Since this
>really irks you, I'll write it one more time. SERBS ARE NOTHING MORE THAN A
>MINORITY IN BOSNIA. Croats are a minority, and Muslims are a minority.
>What really irks you and those killing in the name of eternal Serbdom is that
>Muslims and Croats together make a majority.

>Tom Grgic
>admn8686@ryevm.ryerson.ca

Also, let us remind you that Serbs were not a minority in Yugoslavia, but
then again, who cares, becuase we can bring the same old story of
'World-recognized country' blah blah blah blah blah.

Since the desintegration of Yugoslavia was not a sucession of federal units
but the desintegration of the whole country, the borders should have been
re-drawn. the solution could have been farily easy, but we got into this
mess and there is no way out of it... (not even 'recognition within existing
borders' or 're-drawing new borders' will help anything now... ;(

Nik

P.S. and also we can allways bring the story of 'self-determination' in this
game, so that for example Krajna can become a independent country? fair
enough? they can have democratic election, as well as Croatia did when
'suceeding' from YU... but someone noted once that this 'self-determination'
problem can go forever -what if my family wants to suceede from the rest of
the town? can we do it? but, can the town suceede from the republics/state?
in US, I know that answers are no and yes respectively... why is it so? I
have no idea... any comments?
--
From: lazaresk@convex.rz.uni-duesseldorf.de (Ljubo Lazareski)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
Subject: DO SITE MAKEDONCI
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 17:06:40 GMT
Organization: Universitaetsrechenzentrum, Heinrich-Heine-Universitaet Duesseldorf
NNTP-Posting-Host: 134.99.128.18

Do site makedonci!

So obaa akcija sakam nie site makedonci koi imame pristup na ovaja grupa na 
vesti da si se predstavime i zapozneme.
Celta e vo toa da si razmenime iskustva i da si pomogneme so informacii od 
nasite mesta na ziveenje i rabotenje.

Jas se vikam Ljubo Lazareski i studiram fizika vo Diseldorf na "Heinrich-
Heine Universitt" i rabotam na istiot fakultet vo centralata za racunari 
kako sovetuvac.
Po poteklo sum od Ohrid a ziveam veke okolu 20 god. vo Germanija.
From: dmatic@athena.mit.edu (Davor Matic)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
Subject: Re: WHO'S THE BIGGER NAZI?
Date: 7 Sep 92 21:43:50 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

In article <1584@lysator.liu.se>, svedja@lysator.liu.se (Dejan Ilic) writes:
|> dmatic@athena.mit.edu (Davor Matic) writes:
|> 
|> >In article <14337@goanna.cs.rmit.oz.au>, s902211@yallara.cs.rmit.OZ.AU (Zoran
|> >Kalenic) writes:
|> >|>
|> >|> The part about Serbians acting like nazi's is highly debateable and something
|> >|> i wont go into here.
|> >|>
|> 
|> >You make me puke!  The only debatable thing right now is how are Serbs going
|> >to pull themselves out of the shit they got themselves into and regain the
|> >trust and respect of the international comunity.  Probably the frist step is 
|> >by getting rid of people like you that are dragging them deeper into the abys.
|> >I don't mean kill people like you, but maybe cut your tounges and fingers off
|> >and send you to an orthodox monastary.  Serbs seem to be better at that kinda 
|> >measures than diplomacy anyway, so why not make it work for you rather then
|> >agains you...  :-)
|> 
|> >Reagrds,
|> >--- Davor
|> 
|> Lokking on your text you remind me of Ustasha & Chetnicks techniques during
 WWII and their way of haveing fun. And looking on you name i would say that you
 are a Croat. And you can always discuss about the theme "Who is the war criminal
 in a civil war".


I wanted to remind you of Ustasha & Chetnicks techniques during WWII, because
the things that are going on at the moment in Yugo are not any different from
WWII.  Actually, my name is more likely to be Serbian, not Croatian, but you
concluded that I'm a Croat from my postings against Serbian side.  So lets not
fool ourselves into thingking that we left WWII behind or that you can tell one's
nationality by their name.  The fact is that the things that reminded you of
WWII are going on right now, and my paragraph is a bit of sobering sarcasm.


Regards,
--- Davor
From: cicic@cc.uow.edu.au (muris cicic)
Subject: Re: The goal of an intervention
Organization: University Of Wollongong
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 92 23:31:09 GMT

sommar@enea.se (Erland Sommarskog) writes:


>One may claim that the goal for an armed action in B-H is to
>resurrect B-H as an independent state, but can someone tell me
>what kind of B-H we are to resurrect?
>a) A Muslim-Croat state with the Serbs driven out of B-H?
>b) A Muslim state with the Serbs and Croats driven out of B-H,
>   possibly with some parts sliced off to Croatia?
>c) A Muslim-Serb-Croat state, that is like B-H was a Yugoslav
>   republic, but now as an independent state.
>d) Something else.

You should stop discussing Bosnian issues, since you definitely don't
understand them.  We are neither tribes, nor religious fanatics there,
but it is futile trying to explain.

As to your questions and nice alternatives, let me tell you that we, Bosnians,
do know solution.  Just get rid off please, and wait to outcome.  See you in
a year, and you would be very surprised.

>Erland Sommarskog - ENEA Data, Stockholm - sommar@enea.se
>"Recreation of source code from design documentation can be costly"
>IEEE Std 1042/1987

Muris
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
From: dmatic@athena.mit.edu (Davor Matic)
Subject: Re: WHO'S THE BIGGER NAZI?
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 21:29:33 GMT

Mr. Zoran Kalenic, you just refuse to get it, don't you?  Just like the most
of the Serbs that find it more likely that there is a world wide conspiracy
against Serbian people than to accpet the fact that their policies are 
simply fasist and discriminatory and can't be understood or defended by a
single normal person on this planet.  Well, I'm afraid I can't help you
there at all, and any furtehr discussion seems pointless.  

Regards,
--- Davor
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
From: pshane@andromeda.rutgers.edu (Ana M. Shane)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
Subject: Re: The goal of an intervention
Date: 9 Sep 92 04:17:11 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

cicic@cc.uow.edu.au (muris cicic) writes:
in reply to:

>sommar@enea.se (Erland Sommarskog)

>As to your questions and nice alternatives, let me tell you that we, Bosnians,
>do know solution.  Just get rid off please, and wait to outcome.  See you in
>a year, and you would be very surprised.

I think that we are all terribly curious to find out the solution.
Wouldn't you please share it with us (all)? We don't have TIME to wait
for a whole year. Please, say now how to solve this UZAS (horror) and
start living again!!??

>Muris

Ana

*********************************************************************
Ana M. Shane                       v           voice: (215) 843-2909
334 Winona St
Philadelphia, PA 19144                  pshane@andromeda.rutgers.edu
*********************************************************************
Xref: sparky soc.culture.yugoslavia:8697 soc.culture.greek:8885
From: filippou@cs.mcgill.ca (Dimitrios FILIPPOU)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia,soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: Macedonia in Transition
Date: 14 Sep 92 19:30:41 GMT
Followup-To: no.more.follow.ups
Organization: SOCS - McGill University, Montreal, Canada

In article <9225813.24550@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU> 
sachz@montebello.ecom.unimelb.EDU.AU (SAS) writes:
>
>
>MACEDONIA IN TRANSITION
> 
 [bla...bla...bla...]
> 
>Gligor Apoleski.
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hey, is this the same guy who was teaching us his very own (Skopjan?) 
version of HISTORY the other day???

-df
From: pavlovic-milan@CS.YALE.EDU (Milan Pavlovic)
Subject: Re: ISO's Greek sister organisation facing treason charges over Macedonia.
Organization: Yale University Computer Science Dept., New Haven, CT 06520-2158
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 15:51:58 GMT

In article <9226000.10878@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU> sachz@montebello.ecom.unimelb.EDU.AU (SAS) writes:
> 
>Article from "The Socialist" No. 268, September, 1992.
> 
> Solidarity work continues for the five comrades in the ISO's Greek sister 
>organisation facing treason charges.

  What I find absolutely disgusting in the whole matter of the recognition of
the Skopjans is their apparent willingness to work with ANY group that will 
help them achieve their goals.

  Just look at some of the organizations whom the Skopjans have been working 
with toward this end:

1. The Vatican - the Pope was accepted in the spring of 1990 into the 
   "Macedonian Writer's Association" as honorary member.  

2. The terrorist-fascist VMRO - it was founded by a group of fanatics in Skopje
   in the summer of 1990, and is led by a Bulgarian who brags that his title is
   "Duke" Ljupco.

3. The Turks - even on this newsgroup, Goce Naumoski shocked me with his posts
   of condemning Greeks for their treatment of some muslim minority in Greece,
   who he claims are Turks.  Goce, if you are reading this, let me make it 
   clear to you that you should be ashamed *big time* for doing this. The Turks
   oppressed all our Orthodox people for 500 years, and you are willing to 
   stoop so low as to cajole them, all for your hate of Greeks...SHAME ON YOU !

4. Commie bastards - and now at last, we are getting newspaper articles on
   scy/scg from "The Socialist".


Who will be next, I wonder.

Regards,
Milan
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