HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cebp01@vaxa.strath.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: The Flower Of Scotland!
Date: 5 Oct 92 19:24:21 GMT
Organization: Strathclyde University VAX Cluster






              Oh flower of Scotland,
              when will we see your likes again?
              That fought and died for
              your wee bit hill and glen.......

[Chorus}      That stood against them
              proud Edwards army
              And sent them homewards
              to think again

              The hills are bare now
              and autumn leaves lie thick and still
              o-er land that is lost now
              which those so dearly held.......

                   [Chorus]

              Those days are past now!
              And in the past they shall remain.
              For we can still rise now
              And be the nation again.........

                   [Chorus]

              Oh flower of Scotland
              when will we see your likes again.
              That fought and died for
              your wee bit hill and glen.......

                   [Chorus]




  The national anthem of Scotland. Now dedicated to the Scottish rugby team
  of 1990 Grand Slam Winners!
From: rel@waikato.ac.nz
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: NZ Championship Format
Date: 5 Oct 92 14:40:57 +1300
Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand

I would like to say that this years format for the NZ championships was a great
success, many more people interested in the game. One of the main reasons being
that when Auckland played there was a chance they would get beaten, unlike the
last few years when there was more interest in who would come second in the
first division. Secondly the new laws lead to a more open game of rugby with
what seemed like many more tries being scored. Second and third division
competitions were equally exciting with some great rugby played. Full marks to
King Country for doing so well in first division and of course well done
Waikato for thumping last years winners(twice!) and for showing that a full
strength Auckland side is beatable.
I think that the first division should be merged with the top half of the
second division and thus creating two larger divisions. The basis of this is
that there are a number of second division sides (Counties, Manawatu, Bay of
Plenty, Southland, and of course Taranaki) who are playing rugby good enough to
be in the first division and would easily give North Auckland, Hawkes Bay, King
Country a damn good run for their money. North Auckland were very unlucky to be demoted to
second division and if there was a "super league" the rugby would be very
exciting and close between all the teams. Same can be said between the bottom
half of the second division and the top of the third division.
Well thats my 2 cents worth (5 cents these days).

Rob.

===============================================================================
|                         ||                                                  |
|   Robert Lieffering,    ||            "The world is your oyster,            |
|   University of Waikato ||             But your futures a clam !"           |
|   Hamilton              ||                                                  |
|   New Zealand.          ||                                                  |
|                         ||                                                  |
|   REL@waikato.ac.nz     ||                                                  |
===============================================================================

Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
From: gdebelle@athena.mit.edu (Guy L Debelle)
Subject: See Aust Rugby on TV in Boston
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 17:54:01 GMT

I have just got a copy of the Australia v South Africa game on video.
I've arranged with the Plough & Stars pub to show it sometime in the near future,
 probably on a weekend.  Furthermore, the Plough is probably going to show the 
Australia v Ireland game live on Oct 31 and will certainly do so if there's enough interest.
  The Plough is located on Mass Ave in Cambridge
about half way between Central and Harvard Squares.

If anyone is interested in seeing either game could they please email me.

Guy Debelle
Cambridge MA
From: higham@waikato.ac.nz
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Re: semi finals; NZ Champs
Date: 30 Sep 92 12:09:47 +1200
Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand

In article <1992Sep29.024119.17564@cs.aukuni.ac.nz>, awil2@cs.aukuni.ac.nz (Andrew James        Willmott       ) writes:
> In <1992Sep28.121125.11056@waikato.ac.nz> higham@waikato.ac.nz writes:
> 
>> [ various interesting comments about semifinals deleted ]
> 
>>Ellis, walks on water, Timu. ditto, Cooper, Cooke. Given a hard ground at Rugby
>>park and a 40 minutes like they played on Sunday with a little more luck and
>>Otago may just do it this time. 
> 
> Hmmm! A posting from Waikato supporting Otago in the final! My God! They're
> everywhere!
> 
> (How could they let it happen? Doesn't Simon T. censor the news posts? :-)
> 
I know, I feel awkward being here! If only it was Otago - Auckland, or Harbour,
but Waikato, my native born team (Otago) against my adopted team (Waikato); I 
guess blood is thicker than water :^) I suppose you could say its the two best
teams in the country in this one, certainly it seems so from my perspective.
-- 
Tom Higham,                    
Radiocarbon Dating Lab,
University of Waikato,
Hamilton,
NEW ZEALAND.
Higham@waikato.ac.nz /
C14@waikato.ac.nz
From: piij@hippo.ru.ac.za (Mr ID Jennings)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Re: Springboks opening game in France
Keywords: Springboks, French youth
Date: 4 Oct 92 08:57:56 GMT
Article-I.D.: hippo.1992Oct4.085756.6456
Organization: Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa

In <1992Oct3.164010.4235@hippo.ru.ac.za> piij@hippo.ru.ac.za (Mr ID Jennings) writes:

>News from Bordeaux is that the Young France team beat the Springboks
>24-17 in the opening match of the Springbok tour this afternoon.

>The only details I have are that the French team led 8-6 at halftime and
>that they scored 2 tries to teh 
>Springboks one.

>Otherwise - I have no idea what players the Springboks used in the
>match, how strong the French side was, and what this result implies for
>the rest of the tour.  Comments please!
>-- 

I have further details now - taken from the Sunday Times (South Africa).
It appears that the Young French team scored a convincing victory -
their forwards being more mobile and co-ordinated than the South
Africans, and their backs played the more imaginative rugby.  

My personal feeling is that the Boks will recover from this setback,
although at this stage I am not prepared to bet on them winning the
Tests.  It appears to me that our forwards lack the ball-skills and
mobility that has been developed by other forward packs in international
rugby - and, even more disturbing, reports suggests that the Young
French team dominated the tight play and the lineouts as well.

The future of French rugby looks much brighter than it did last year
after the world cup, but it seems to me that the South African selectors
have to make a conscious effort to encourage talented young players NOW
otherwise we will run into a very lean period after the current touring
party reaches retirement age - which is not too far off.

Comments!

>Ian Jennings
>Philosophy Department
>Rhodes University
>Grahamstown 6140
-- 
Ian Jennings
Philosophy Department
Rhodes University
Grahamstown 6140
From: samh@zen.maths.uts.edu.au (Sam Huxham)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Re: Jorgensen
Date: 1 Oct 92 05:13:39 GMT
Organization: University of Technology, Sydney
NNTP-Posting-Host: zen.maths.uts.edu.au

In <01GPEO91BGBK000FQK@JHMAIL.HCF.JHU.EDU> tratnana@eureka-gold.wbme.jhu.edu (Tilak Ratnanather) writes:

>I note that Peter Jorgensen - the star of the 1990 Australian School
>boys Tour of UK and the heir to Campese's throne at Coogee Oval -
>the home of Randwick (IMHO a very beautiful ground with the surf in
>view) -- wasnt picked for the 1992 Wallabies. Does any one more
>knowledgeable care to comment?

>Tilak Ratnanather       Internet: tratnana@eureka-gold.wbme.jhu.edu

If I recall, Jorgensen broke his leg and/or damaged his knee in
the Sydney Rugby Grand Final (Randwick v. Gordon).
--Sam
From: grahamc@hpwin052.uksr.hp.com (Graham Cutting)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1992 17:21:44 GMT
Subject: Re: Eng Squads for 5N & Canada + news
Organization: HP, Berkshire, England
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby

In article  <137670001@hpwin052.uksr.hp.com> grahamc@hpwin052.uksr.hp.com (Graham Cutting) writes:

> [5N squad list deleted]
>
>Halliday and Rory Underwood _have_ retired, Skinner is playing for Blackheath 
>in National Division 2 and the England management appear to feel that is as 
>good as retired.  Mike Teague has moved to Mosley.
>

Well, Underwood (Rory) has announced that he is not retiring (or is coming
out of retirement, surely he hasn't been gone long enough :-), like all
good rugby players.  This gives us the prospect of two Underwood wings.

>
>The squad for the Canada game (at Wembley) looks like this:
>
>England Squad for Canada (17th October) announced 14th September.
>
>Pears (H), Webb (B), Hackney (L), Heslop (O), Oti (W), T Underwood (L)
>Buckton (S), Carling (H), de Glanville (B), Guscott (B), Andrew (T),
>Barnes (B), Hill (B), Morris (O).
>Hynes (O), Leonard (H), Mullins (H), Probyn (W), Ubogu (B), Moore (H), 
>Olver (N), Bayfield (N), Dooley (PG), Snow (H), Robinson (B), Rodber (N),
>Ryan (W), Teague (M), Winterbottom (H), Clarke (B), Richards (L).
>
>H=Harlequins, B=Bath, L=Leicester, O=Orrell, W=Wasps, S=Saracens,
>T=Toulouse, N=Nothampton, M=Moseley, PG=Preston Grasshoppers
>

As prev. stated Pears is out with a broken jaw (in three places and needs
an op), Alan Buzza and Simon Hodgkinson are the replacements.

[stuff deleted]

>
>Graham
>grahamc@hpwin052.uksr.hp.com

Me again.  Sad isn't it - replying to your own posts :-).
From: rwturner@IASTATE.EDU (Richard W Turner)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Otago beats N Harbour.
Date: 28 Sep 92 16:40:53 GMT
Article-I.D.: IASTATE.1992Sep28.114053
Reply-To: rwturner@IASTATE.EDU (Richard W Turner)
Organization: Iowa State University

4am Sun 28 Sep 1992 (CDT USA) - I got an
excited phone call from my brother who
was one of the 25000 frenzied otago
fans at Carisbrook who saw them beat
N Harbour 26-23.  All I can say (and
judging from Bill Taylors excellent
posting) is that it must have been
one hell of a game. Congrats to
Otago.  But what really made my day
was to find out that Auckland had
LOST and got BEATEN and LOST again
to WAIKATO.  When two teams complain
about the date and site of a final
that they haven't even earned the right
to be in it makes you happy to learn 
that they lost and didn't make the 
final.  The pleasure is doubled
when its Auckland teams that are 
involved but then again only Aucklanders
could be so arrogant. 
If I could, I'd have a speights and
celebrate but I can't get speights
in Iowa so I'll have a budweiser instead.

Richard Turner
Parochial Otagoite and ex Balcluthan.
From: higham@waikato.ac.nz
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Re: semi finals; NZ Champs
Date: 28 Sep 92 12:11:25 +1200
Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand

Well, what a couple of fantastic and exciting games we saw this weekend in the
semi finals of the national championship. Auckland-Waikato was a cracker but I
don't think I've ever seen a more exciting and tense game than the
Harbour-Otago clash on Carisbrook. Goodness knows how Otago managed to get up
off the floor and win after Strachans try, I thought they were dead at that
stage. 
I was interested to see a continuation of the professionalism that seems to be
coming into the game more and more. At Eden Park, there were a couple of dodgy
pieces of play, notably Purvis taking advantage of the ref on the other side of
the scrum and grabbing the ball from halfback Hewitts hands and stuffing it
through his legs for a 'tighthead' from which Waikatos halfback Crabb scored.
Then Loes cynical takeout of All Black mate McDowell when the big man was
heading for under the posts at the end of a sweeping Auckland move. Compare
this to a number of dubious Auckland tactics designed to give away penalties at
a time when the opposition are in need of tries and Fitzpatricks 'try' against
Canterbury and you have an increasing number of pro fouls and general lack of
sportsmanship that seems to be on the increase at present.
Nevertheless, tremendous excitement in both first division games. If only the
NZRFU had exhibited a little bit more foresight earlier we could have enjoyed
alot more of this type of sudden death action. Its been worth waiting for. 

As far as the final goes, well, Otago-Waikato clashes have tended to go with
venue in recent years. The crucial element will probably be the forward
exchange where Waikato have the edge in the front-five. The loosies and the
back line jumpers are definitely Otagos strength however. It will be an
interesting tussle there. I was really impressed again by Monkley though in the
Auks game. As far as the backs go, well, Waikato's line were excellent against
Auckland; powerhouse tackling from Ellison, secure play from Strawbridge...but
Otago definitely has the class; Bachop, who's late season form has been superb,
Ellis, walks on water, Timu. ditto, Cooper, Cooke. Given a hard ground at Rugby
park and a 40 minutes like they played on Sunday with a little more luck and
Otago may just do it this time. 
-- 
Tom Higham,                    
Radiocarbon Dating Lab,
University of Waikato,
Hamilton,
NEW ZEALAND.
Higham@waikato.ac.nz /
C14@waikato.ac.nz
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Re: Waikato wins Division 1 final.
From: andy@comp.vuw.ac.nz (Andy Bond)
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 21:31:57 GMT
Organization: Distributed Systems Group, Comp Sci, Victoria University of Wellington

In article <1992Oct5.092209.11221@waikato.ac.nz> higham@waikato.ac.nz writes:
>Waikato won the National first division championship final at Rugby Park,
>Hamilton yesterday by 40-5 over Otago, the defenders. It was an awesome power
>display by the mooloo men, they were simply unstoppable, led by a pack of
>inspired forwards any one of whom could be given man of the match. Duane
>Monkley was everywhere, Richard Loe

Well I certainly wouldn't give Richard Loe any man of the match award.
Did you see the TV replay on the news which showed him gouging the
eyes of Crowley (the Otago fullback)?  For 5 or 10 seconds he drove
his fingers into Crowley's eye sockets (looked like he was going
bowling).  Crowley had to leave the field a few minutes later.

Other than this I enjoyed the game.

andy
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby

I think there are few inaccuracies in your posting regarding the
history of Rugby and your extensions to other forms of "football". As
you correctly stated "rugby" started at Rugby School, when, as the
story goes, one of the players in a soccer match, became frustrated
with the game and picked up the ball and ran with it. The other
students tried to run him down and get them ball from him. Hence Rugby
was born.

Australian Rules football has very little to do with Rugby or Soccer.
It was developed as a game to keep cricket players fit during the
off-season winter months. The first game was palyed on an enormous
field over half a mile long and was played by students from two
schools. The game has since evolved into a unique spectacular sport
which encompasses fitness, speed, agility, strength, ball skills, eye
and hand co-ordination, stamina and many other skills.

The Flying Wedge, as far as I know was a phenomena of the 1960's and
1970's and was outlawed in the game of Rugby during that time. While
it was a very effective manouvre, it did place a great deal of danger
on the Wedge ball carrier.

There are a number of excellent books on the evolution of rugby and
any good book store should be able to help you find a reference for
the history of the game.

Regard

DB

Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
From: cctr123@csc.canterbury.ac.nz (Alan Murray, CSC Operations, Uni of Canty)
Subject: Re: semi finals; NZ Champs
Organization: University of Canterbury, Christchurch, New Zealand
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 01:42:06 GMT

In article <1992Sep28.121125.11056@waikato.ac.nz>, higham@waikato.ac.nz writes:
> I was interested to see a continuation of the professionalism that seems to be
> coming into the game more and more. At Eden Park, there were a couple of dodgy
> pieces of play, notably Purvis taking advantage of the ref on the other side of
> the scrum and grabbing the ball from halfback Hewitts hands and stuffing it
> through his legs for a 'tighthead' from which Waikatos halfback Crabb scored.
> Then Loes cynical takeout of All Black mate McDowell when the big man was
> heading for under the posts at the end of a sweeping Auckland move. Compare
> this to a number of dubious Auckland tactics designed to give away penalties at
> a time when the opposition are in need of tries and Fitzpatricks 'try' against
> Canterbury and you have an increasing number of pro fouls and general lack of
> sportsmanship that seems to be on the increase at present.

It was inevitable that "professional" fouls would have more impact on the game
especially as the games assumed more importance. Unfortunately, partly due to
the safety laws introduced to the game, rugby has no effective way of
penalising these fouls. If a prop or a hooker are sent to the sin bin then
another player has to take their place which tends to negate the punishment
somewhat. It's something rugby authorities will be forced to look at sooner or
later.

On a different tack, it's nice to see the National Championship obtaining a
life of its own separate from the Ranfurly Shield. Ever since Canterbury's
shield era the holder of the shield was virtually assured of winning the
National Champs provided it successfully defended the log of wood (yes I know
Otago won last year but that is the only non-shieldholder success for a number
of years). Now with the shield not at stake after the end of the round-robin
phase of the competition new life has been breathed into the National Champs.
Long may it continue.

Alan
From: tratnana@eureka-gold.wbme.jhu.edu (Tilak Ratnanather)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Jorgensen
Date: 30 Sep 92 23:44:57 GMT


I note that Peter Jorgensen - the star of the 1990 Australian School
boys Tour of UK and the heir to Campese's throne at Coogee Oval -
the home of Randwick (IMHO a very beautiful ground with the surf in
view) -- wasnt picked for the 1992 Wallabies. Does any one more
knowledgeable care to comment?

Tilak Ratnanather       Internet: tratnana@eureka-gold.wbme.jhu.edu
Dept of Otolaryngology -- Head & Neck Surgery    || Phone 410 955 3877
The Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine  || Fax   410 955 1299
Traylor Research Bldg 522, 720 Rutland Avenue    || Fax   410 955 0549
Baltimore MD 21205-2196                          ||
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
From: cctr123@csc.canterbury.ac.nz (Alan Murray, CSC Operations, Uni of Canty)
Subject: Re: NZ Championship Format
Organization: University of Canterbury, Christchurch, New Zealand
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 22:04:37 GMT

In article <1992Oct5.224634.11240@waikato.ac.nz>, sma@waikato.ac.nz (Stephen Anderson) writes:
> A better idea, I think, is that of meger a number of unions to create a 
> single division of 10 - 12 teams.  This would allow strong players to get top
> exposure without having to resort to changing unions.

Big problem here is then the travelling involved. Notice in teams like
Canterbury there aren't too many country players these days and any who do have
the dedication and skill to make it, eg Andy Earl, are not always all that
available. Part of the reason for this is the travelling involved. Remember
it's not just getting to matches - there are training sessions involved and a
three hour round trip car journey for a two hour training run on a cold wet
winter's night is not all that appealing (not to mention the running costs of
yon motor vehicle).
What's wrong with players changing unions? Unless they are farmers chances are
they would have to move to get a job anyway.

Alan
From: smaad@thor.cf.ac.uk (Mr A Davies 92)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Re: Wales XV to play Italy
Date: 30 Sep 92 13:02:19 GMT
Organization: University of Wales College at Cardiff
X-Mailer: Cardiff Computing Maths PP Mail Open News Gateway

In article <1992Sep30.104758.16577@aber.ac.uk> mae@aber.ac.uk (Mark Endaf Edwards) writes:
|WALES XV v ITALY (October 7, Cardiff)
|
|15 A Clement (Swansea)
|14 I Evans (Llanelli, captain)
|13 R Bidgood (Newport)
|12 S Gibbs (Swansea)
|11 M Hall (Cardiff)
|10 C Stephens (Llanelli)
|9 R Jones (Swansea)
|8 S Davies (Swansea)
|7 R Webster (Swansea)
|6 E Lewis (Llanelli)
|5 Gareth Llewellyn (Neath)
|4 A Copsey (Llanelli)
|3 H Williams-Jones (South Wales Police)
|2 G Jenkins (Swansea)
|1 M Griffiths (Cardiff)
|REPLACEMENTS:
|M Rayer (Cardiff)
|R Moon (Llanelli)
|N Meek (Pontypool)
|J Davies (Neath)
|P Davies (Llanelli)
|M Morris (Neath)
|
 
|This is Wales' strongest available side and should beat the Italians.  Last
|season's two victories in the Five Nations championship, together with Alan
|Davies' impact as coach, has restored much-needed confidence to the Welsh team.

This is the strongest side, with the exception of the left wing position.
Mike Hall, who plays centre for Cardiff, is a good tackler but has he
the pace to be a winger ?
In his place I would have put Swansea's flyer Simon Davies.

Hopefully in time for the 5 Nations, Cardiff's new winger Nigel Walker
will also be considered for this position. The ex 110m hurdler, Olympic
finalist, and a personal best of 10.35s for the 100m only joined Cardiff
this season. His form so far shows that he is an exciting prospect.
Providing he develops his rugby skills, he will be a man to watch out
for!

|
|Cheers
|Endaf.
|***********
|Endaf Edwards
|Institute of Earth Studies
|University of Wales
|Aberystwyth SY23 3DB
|Wales

Adrian.
__
smaad@thor.cf.ac.uk
From: mae@aber.ac.uk (Mark Endaf Edwards)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Wales XV to play Italy
Date: 30 Sep 92 10:47:58 GMT
Organization: University of Wales, Aberystwyth

WALES XV v ITALY (October 7, Cardiff)

15 A Clement (Swansea)
14 I Evans (Llanelli, captain)
13 R Bidgood (Newport)
12 S Gibbs (Swansea)
11 M Hall (Cardiff)
10 C Stephens (Llanelli)
9 R Jones (Swansea)
8 S Davies (Swansea)
7 R Webster (Swansea)
6 E Lewis (Llanelli)
5 Gareth Llewellyn (Neath)
4 A Copsey (Llanelli)
3 H Williams-Jones (South Wales Police)
2 G Jenkins (Swansea)
1 M Griffiths (Cardiff)
REPLACEMENTS:
M Rayer (Cardiff)
R Moon (Llanelli)
N Meek (Pontypool)
J Davies (Neath)
P Davies (Llanelli)
M Morris (Neath)

The only change from the team which defeated Scotland 15-12 last March
is the recall of Colin Stephens in place of Neil Jenkins at outside-half.
Jenkins was banned after being sent off in the Schweppes Cup semi-final
last May. The ban ended on Sunday and he trained with the squad on Monday
but was omitted from the team due to lack of match practice.  Richard Webster,
however, has only had 35 minutes of rugby this season, going off with a leg
injury during Swansea's win against Newbridge on September 5. He did enough
during his one squad session to convince Alan Davies.  Mike Griffiths was sent
off during Cardiff's match against Aberavon on September 5 and was banned for
12 weeks.  The ban was lifted on review (after video evidence was considered)
and he returns to the side.
This is Wales' strongest available side and should beat the Italians.  Last
season's two victories in the Five Nations championship, together with Alan
Davies' impact as coach, has restored much-needed confidence to the Welsh team.

Cheers
Endaf.
***********
Endaf Edwards
Institute of Earth Studies
University of Wales
Aberystwyth SY23 3DB
Wales