HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gdb15@grebe.cl.cam.ac.uk (Guy Barry)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Costs of devolution (was Re: Why wait 5 years?)
Date: 16 Apr 92 18:54:16 GMT
Reply-To: gdb15@cl.cam.ac.uk (Guy Barry)
Organization: U of Cambridge Computer Lab, UK

In article <sk2jfINN6sj@grapevine.EBay.Sun.COM> martinb@bottomdog.uk.sun.com writes:
>In article 26000@cl.cam.ac.uk, gdb15@grebe.cl.cam.ac.uk (Guy Barry) writes:
>>In article <1992Apr16.123723.18718@rdg.dec.com> potter@movies.enet.dec.com (Alan T Potter) writes:
>>>We have the representatives - they work in Westminster.  Are you saying that
>>>either i) a TAX-RAISING assembly or ii) a NATIONAL GOVERNMENT can be run with
>>>no staff more than is required to run the Scottish or Welsh offices?  Surely
>>>not.
>>
>>The answer to (i) is probably yes; there are already Inland Revenue and
>>Customs & Excise staff working in Scotland (I'm not quite so sure about
>>Wales), and they would simply become directly answerable to the relevant
>>Scottish or Welsh minister.  (ii) would require more staff in Scotland
>>or Wales, though this would be partly offset by a drop in the number
>>of civil servants in London.
>
>I don't quite agree: in addition to the tax collection functions already
>present, there would need to be an addition level of staff to deal with
>aportioning monies between Westminster and the Scottish assembly. In
>an ideal world (joke!) that should not be a lot staff, but it is
>certainly non-zero.

True, but on the other hand there's be no staff in the Treasury deciding
how much money to allocate to the Scottish Office.  Seems like swings
and roundabouts again.

--
Guy Barry	Phone: +44 (0)223 334757 | University of Cambridge
		  Fax: +44 (0)223 334678 | Computer Laboratory   
	   JANET: Guy.Barry@uk.ac.cam.cl | New Museums Site, Pembroke Street
        Internet: Guy.Barry@cl.cam.ac.uk | Cambridge CB2 3QG, England, UK
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: evansg@uproar.enet.dec.com (Gwyn Evans @ IME)
Subject: Re: Flour (Was: Re: Gas stoves)
Reply-To: evansg@uproar.enet.dec.com (Gwyn Evans @ IME)
Organization: Digital Equipment Service Industries Solutions Company Ltd
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 09:51:22 GMT


  There was an article that I read a couple of weeks ago about the 
inpending release in the UK of a best-selling USA cake book. The author
translated the recipes from US to UK ingredients and measures then had
the forethought to double check by getting a couple of bags of flour
shipped across to her. 
  Of course, nothing worked as expected! I think that the publishers
arranged for her to come over here for a week or two, during which she
'recreated' her recipes with UK flour. ISTR that she ended up needing
to use mixes of some plain and some self-raising, to compensate.
--
+======================================================================+
| Gwyn Evans  | evansg@uproar.enet.dec.com |  Uxbridge, Middlesex, UK  |
| DESISCo - Digital Equipment Service Industries Solutions Company Ltd |
|  Views expressed and statements made are mine and not those of DEC   |
+======================================================================+
Xref: sparky soc.culture.british:6348 alt.politics.british:13
From: pac9897@zeus.tamu.edu (SMELLS LIKE JOHN MAJOR....)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,alt.politics.british
Subject: Farewell to Kinnock
Date: 14 Apr 92 04:24:00 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.british
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

So goodbye Neil Kinnock, depised by far-left and Tory alike. Well, thanks
for trying but we appreciate that no one can face up to lies on the
scale propagated by Fleet Street.

By way of an aside, does anyone remember how in the late-1980's
the press tried to show how inferior Kinnock was with his degree
from Cardiff Uni. when compared to Thatcher and her Oxbridge degree.
Remarkably, when Johnny "Two O-Levels" took over the premiership,
I seem to remember precious little in the way of any newspaper
pointing out how Kinnock had a degree, passed his o-levels and A-levels.
Mind you, the British press are something for the British to malign
and the foreigner to view with disgust and disbelief.

Hopefully someone like John Smith will get the job, as it's going to take
a particularly senior and skilled politician to hold Labour together
through the next bleak 5 years.


Philip A. Carney		On Exchange from Lancaster University,
Texas A&M University, TX	England.

**********ALL VIEWS EXPRESSED ARE MY OWN, NOT NECESSARILY THOSE OF**************
******TEXAS A & M UNIVERSITY, LANCASTER UNIVERSITY OR THEIR ASSOCIATES**********

"The lust for power is rooted not in strength, but in weakness..." - Erich Fromm
From: J.W.Harley@newcastle.ac.uk (Jon Harley)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: TORIES AND THE SELFISH,AROGANT ENGLISH
Date: 13 Apr 92 09:47:50 GMT
Organization: University of Newcastle upon Tyne, UK, NE1 7RU

clg308@vaxa.strath.ac.uk writes:

>Having once again as a Scot had a FACIST(sorry conservative) goverment inflicted
>on us by the actions of the selfish english the time has now come for Scotland 
>to get on with it on thier on.
>The fact is as long of the people in England vote tory, Scotland will also have
>to suffer them.

The fact is, there was an overall swing to Labour in England and a (slight)
overall swing to the Tories in Scotland.

>The tories have not only taken us into the longest reccession 
>ever, but are slowly wiping out the N.H.S,our schools.They have no regard for
>the less fortunate;the old,the frail,the sick,the children,the unemployed,the
>homeless,

Their policies on these things are UK-wide.

>I have
>like many other Scots long regarded the english as a selfish nation [...]

I find this offensively racist.

>                 singed Andy(a true scot)
>P.S I aplogise to the English in the north,and Wales who must feel as fustrated
>as Scotland.
[...]

Sounds like you're really calling tory voters selfish, not the english. Please
learn to separate politics from nationality.

>P.P.S This is ment to reflect the views of myself and other Scots so please 
>don't clutter up any newsgroups with your flames.If you have anything to say 
>please e_mail me directly. 

It's not *that* easy to have the last word round here.

BTW I don't disagree that the tories have no mandate to govern in Scotland
and that they appeal to the selfish nature in people. But there are selfish
people in Scotland and socialists in England.


/jon

   _________________________________________________________________
  / -- Jonathan Harley  ____   One cannot be precise and           //    //  //
 / J.W.Harley@ncl.ac.uk \bi/  still be pure.      --Marc Chagall  // // //////
/_x8504_____B2t+w-g+svrp \/ __________________________________///////////  //
From: marcus@sun.pcl.ac.uk (Marcus Harvey)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: dweeb?
Date: 10 Apr 92 15:39:46 GMT
Organization: Polytechnic of Central London

In article <1992Apr8.185101.10857@husc3.harvard.edu> koumis@husc4.harvard.edu (Anthony Koumis) writes:
>Some Brit worried about an American trying to defend his language.  So
>I thought I would point out that some LInguists actually think that
>American-English as spoken is closer to medieval-english than english-
>english as spoken.  The idea being, I guess, that the Yankees didnt
>evolves their language but the Brits did from the middles ages.
>
>Cheers.

Huh! Some linguist indeed. Strike him off that's what I say. I hears that
if you want to hear the nearest you'll get to olde english (insert stupid
gothic font) as it was spoke (sic) go to Newcastle.

I've always held the belief that the reason you spell "centre" c-e-n-t-e-r
and suchlike is because the original settlers were better with a spade and a
plough than a pen and paper...

Marcus Harvey, Polytechnic of Central London IRS
marcus@uk.ac.pcl.sun - JANET  marcus%sun.pcl.ac.uk@ukacrl - BITNET/EARN

                                                          ...Bubble Up!
From: matthew@ntl02.decnet.nokia.fi (Matthew Faupel)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Majorities (Was Re: Emigration after the Tory win on April 9th)
Date: 17 Apr 92 12:06:47 GMT
	<1992Apr13.135956.7608@sci.kun.nl> <jh6936c@zola.esd.sgi.com>
	<tahonen.2@katk.Helsinki.FI> <jje6enk@zola.esd.sgi.com>
Organization: Nokia Telecommunications, Cambridge, UK

>>>>> On 15 Apr 92 22:15:57 GMT, livesey@solntze.esd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) said:

> In article <tahonen.2@katk.Helsinki.FI>, tahonen@katk.Helsinki.FI (Timo Ahonen) writes:
> |> Yes, the parties of the German Chancellors haven't had overall majorities 
> |> for decades now, but the *governments* of the German Chancellors have had 
> |> majorities both in Parliament and in popular vote: they've all been 
> |> coalition governments. So the German governments have had the support of the 
> |> majority of the voters, which is something the British one-party 
> |> governments haven't had.

> You mean there was a line on the ballot paper that said "I vote for
> minority party X to join a coalition with majority party Y"?

> No, I don't think so.  I think what happened is that minority
> party X lost the election because not enough people voted for it,
> and party Y go more votes but not a simple majority.   Then the 
> leader of party Y invited the leader of party X to join a coalition.  
> The leader of party X agreed to do so, without a further election.

> In other words, the coalition was put together in a backroom deal
> between party leaders.

"Backroom deals" (or the other popular one "deals in smoke-filled rooms")
are invariably raised as a reason that PR is bad thing, with the implication
that this is a betrayal by the politicians of the principles on which they
stood in the election.

Consider though: what the electorate does in an election (under whatever
system) is it chooses the candidates that it thinks best represent their own
individual ideals and beliefs, and entrusts them with running the country.
As individuals we don't expect to be able to get our own way all the time,
we compromise; so why is it regarded as so abhorrent that politicians should
do the same thing?  They would only be doing what we would do in the same
situation, and that's what we elected them for - to reflect our personal
views.

No-one bats an eyelid when two people with differing views agree to help
each other on something where their ideas coincide, similarly whole
countries can co-operate on common aims despite differences in other fields,
so what is so exceptional about the House of Commons that this idea which
works on both a smaller and a larger scale elsewhere cannot be applied here?


Matthew
--
---* Amnesiac the Wizard *------------------* matthew@uk.tele.nokia.fi *---
 Opinions expressed here are not those of my company.    | NB. ntl02 is EN
 They're not even my own; I plagiarised the lot of them! | TEE EL ZERO TWO
---* matthew@ntl02.decnet.nokia.fi *------------------* Matthew Faupel *---
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,uk.politics
From: rna@leland.Stanford.EDU (Robert Ashcroft)
Subject: Re: political parties
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 92 02:05:07 GMT

In article <JIM.92Apr13115230@hunter.cs.strath.ac.uk> jim@cs.strath.ac.uk (Jim Reid) writes:
>In article <1992Apr11.022452.4346@leland.Stanford.EDU> rna@leland.Stanford.EDU (Robert Ashcroft) writes:
>
>   The real problem is that Labour is simply not a natural majority party.
>
>So how come there have been 4 Labour governments since WW2?
>

The last one being voted in in 1974.  That's 18 years ago.  Britain has 
changed drastically in that time.  How many conservative govts have we
had since WWII?  Well, 4 _since_ 1974 (including the latest) so it is
probably at least twice that number.

>   Labour are four time losers.  You simply cannot imagine a better time
>   for a Labour victory---the Tories were split, demoralized, the economy
>   sucked, they ran a piss-poor campaign, and yet, and yet, and yet---
>   Kinnock still couldn't pull it off.
>
>It's wrong to make Kinnock the scapegoat for Labour's failure. When
>you consider the state his party was in when he took over, Kinnock has
>achieved the impossible by making Labour (almost) electable.

I'm not at all making Kinnock a scapegoat.  I think he did as well as anyone
could have in the circumstances.  The point being that everything went as
well as Labour could expect AND THEY STILL LOST...


>   Poor old Neil---he has to know now that he'll never be PM.  Roy Hattersley
>   was quoted as being utterly bewildered by what the British people did
>   in this election.  I think the awful truth is beginning to dawn.
>
>What "awful truth"?

That unless they club up with the Libs or amalgamate or lose their left
wing or do something equally drastic, they aren't going to see the inside
of #10 Downing St for a very long time to come.

>PR won't happen unless the Conservatives get defeated in a general
>election. The only party with an arithmetically realistic chance of
>doing this is Labour.

But this election just proved that Labour has a no chance whatsoever in
its current form, by itself.  A Lib-Lab pact might do it, just.  But that
might destroy the Labour party.  Which would take us back to the turn of
the century.

RNA



Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: sue@netcom.com (Sue Miller)
Subject: Re: Flour (Was: Re: Gas stoves)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 16:51:01 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

In article <1992Apr10.095122.8240@rdg.dec.com> evansg@uproar.enet.dec.com (Gwyn Evans @ IME) writes:
>
>  There was an article that I read a couple of weeks ago about the 
>inpending release in the UK of a best-selling USA cake book. The author
>translated the recipes from US to UK ingredients and measures then had
>the forethought to double check by getting a couple of bags of flour
>shipped across to her. 
>  Of course, nothing worked as expected! I think that the publishers
>arranged for her to come over here for a week or two, during which she
>'recreated' her recipes with UK flour. ISTR that she ended up needing
>to use mixes of some plain and some self-raising, to compensate.
>--

Yes yes.  I have been there.  I am still there - I have a lot of
recipes which I am struggling (somewhat blindly) to make work
with US ingredients.  VERY frustrating.  I made a black fruit cake
just the other day.  My first attempt at a Welsh Cinnamon Cake
would have made a fine discus (likewise the sponge cake).  Sigh.
Ah well, I'll be in the UK in a few weeks and then I suppose things
will work as expected!!  Meanwhile I've tended to stick to Fannie Farmer
for biscuits/cakes/etc.  I did manage to perfect the one recipe which
the household can't live without (ginger biscuits).  Thank heavens.


Xref: sparky soc.culture.british:6455 soc.culture.celtic:3566
From: ewan@eg.lucasauto.co.uk (Ewan Benson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,soc.culture.celtic,uk.politics
Subject: Re: New cross party pressure group for Scottish Home Rule
Summary: Exiles
Keywords: Ex-pats and the vote
Date: 14 Apr 92 07:29:20 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.british
Organization: Lucas Powertrain Systems, Electronic Control Group, UK

In article <1992Apr12.095932.15116@rdg.dec.com> cockburn@majors.enet.dec.com (Craig Cockburn) writes:
>
>From Scotland on Sunday, 12-Apr-92, P1
>
>New pressure group in push for referendum
>
>The political initiative in Scotland was seized from the mainstream parties
d>yesterday by a new pressure group which plans a series of
massive rallies
>and protests to demand a multi-option referendum on the future of Scotland.
>

I just wondered that if, by some quirk of government, a
referendum is actually held, who will be allowed to vote.

I assume it will only be those people resident in Scotland at
the time, but is this fair ? I was born and lived the first 23
years of my life in Scotland, but had to move down south after I
graduated to obtain gainful employment (same old story blah blah
blah).

Now I feel (rightly or wrongly) the economic situation which
forced me down here originally would not have arisen had Scotland
been given some sort of devolutionary or independant government.
The consequence of this situation, however, will be that unless
I suddenly take residence north of The Wall again I won't be
able to influence the outcome of the situation.

So, as usual, I'll be left in trying to convince others in a
Tory stronghold about the advantages of an independant Scotland.


Please, geeza vote.


Ewan
------
"Once I thought I could make God a bribe,
 So I said I was in his lost tribe
 Gettin' handouts can be so frustratin'
 'Get in line son, there's 5 million waiting'
 I can't understand why we let someone else rule our land
 Cap in Hand"  - The Proclaimers
-- 
"I bought some batteries yesterday, but they | Ewan Benson
 weren't included, so I had to go back and   |
 buy some more" - Steven Wright              | ewan@eg.lucasauto.co.uk
                                             |
From: ses@cmns-sun.think.com (Simon Edward Spero)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: The Vogon News Service: 06-Apr-92
Date: 6 Apr 92 17:18:41
Organization: /u/ses/.organization
NNTP-Posting-Host: cmns-sun.think.com
In-reply-to: cockburn@majors.enet.dec.com's message of Mon, 6 Apr 1992 17:06:26 GMT

In article <1992Apr6.170931.7249@rdg.dec.com> cockburn@majors.enet.dec.com (Craig Cockburn) writes:

       "Can Wattana top his record break of one hundred and forty seven?"

				   - Nick Owen, LWT, at a snooker match
				     [ 147 is the maximum break possible. ]

Actually it's theoretically possible to score 155; if your opponent commits
a foul before any balls have been potted, and leaves you snookered, the 
subsequent free ball counts as an extra red.

--
-----
Guest account at TMC 		 |	  	Just Another  WAIS Hacker
Organization: Rohm and Haas Company
Date: Monday, 13 Apr 1992 17:29:22 EDT
From: Aengus Lawlor <RBYAML@ROHVM1.BITNET>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Questions on the election
 <MATTHEW.92Apr13123501@matthew.ntl02.decnet.nokia.fi>

In article <MATTHEW.92Apr13123501@matthew.ntl02.decnet.nokia.fi>,
matthew@ntl02.decnet.nokia.fi (Matthew Faupel) says:
>>>>>> On 10 Apr 92 15:51:07 GMT, migod@turing.toronto.edu (Mike Godfrey) said:
>> -- Who defeated Gerry Adams and from what party?  What was Adams' plurality
>>    last time around?  Any ideas on what this represents?
>
>I can't remember the name, but he was defeated by a member of the SDLP (the
>more constitutional nationalist party in Northern Ireland).  What the
>commentators sid about this (and I'll leave it up to you to decide whether
>you can believe them :-) is that this represented a notable swing away from
>Sinn Fein to the SDLP, backed up by a significant number of Unionists in the
>constituency voting tactically for the lesser of the two evils.
Gerry Adams vote remained almost constant, (16826 this time, 16862 last time)
while the SDLP vote was up about 3,000 and the Ulster Unionist Party vote was
down about 3,000. According to RTE (the Irish state broadcasting company)
the Ulster Defence Association, a Loyalist extremist group, urged Unionists
to vote against Gerry Adams, while the Ulster Unionist Party would have
preffered to see Gerry Adams elected. (He won't take his seat, and the
British government won't talk to him. He's also a better 'demon' than
Joe Hendron, a constitutional nationalist)

>Matthew
>---* Amnesiac the Wizard *------------------* matthew@uk.tele.nokia.fi *---
> Opinions expressed here are not those of my company.    | NB. ntl02 is EN
> They're not even my own; I plagiarised the lot of them! | TEE EL ZERO TWO
>---* matthew@ntl02.decnet.nokia.fi *------------------* Matthew Faupel *---
Aengus
--
RBYAML@ROHMHAAS.COM                    Aengus Lawlor
RBYAML@ROHVM1.BITNET                   (who used to be ALAWLOR@DIT.IE)
"How about some of that famous Dublin wit, Barman?"
"Certainly, sir. Would that be Dry or Sparkling?"
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: sp@mirabeau.osf.fr (Simon Patience)
Subject: Re: Election Fraud by the Conservatives
Reply-To: sp@mirabeau.osf.fr (Simon Patience)
Organization: OSF Research Institute
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 09:16:08 GMT

In article <13508@suns3.crosfield.co.uk>, pdg@crosfield.co.uk (paul
goffin) writes:
> If you're not on that list, you don't get to vote.
> 
> Of course, if you don't want to pay the poll tax, you might suspect
> that 'they' might use the electoral roll information to find out
> about you and therefore not register to vote!  (Poll tax registration
> is a serarate process.)
> 
> Since most people who don't register for poll tax probably don't
> want a Tory government, this probably reduces the size of the opposition
> vote.

And even if they did vote it is not clear whether this would have made
any difference to the outcome of the election. Let's face it, the
LibDems can increase their share of the vote by several percent and it
makes fuck all difference to the number of seats they get so what makes
anyone think that it would be any different for the Labour party if the
poll tax avoiders voted? In fact, as someone pointed out, there is a
pretty good chance that the bulk of the avoidance would be in Labour
majority seats where an increase in the majority would not do them much good.

Simon.

  Simon Patience
  Open Software Foundation			Phone: +33-76-63-48-72
  Research Institute				FAX:   +33-76-51-05-32
  2 Avenue De Vignate				Email: sp@gr.osf.org
  38610 Gieres, France				       uunet!gr.osf.org!sp
From: mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: ACCOMODATION IN BLACKPOOL
Date: 15 Apr 92 15:20:06 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept, QMW, University of London, UK.

From: troyer@ips.id.ethz.ch ( Matthias Troyer)
>We plan to participate in this year's British Open
>Championships in ballroom dancing in Blackpool. Can
>anyone help us with finding accomodation. We have
>never been to Blackpool and don't know any place
>to stay. It shouldn't be too expensive and if
>possible not too far from Wintergardens.

Blackpool is a popular holiday resort, and the centre of the
town is made up almost entirely of small hotels. Unless you
turn up at the height of the holiday season, you would almost
certainly be able to pick a place right away and stay there. If
you want to play safe and book ahead, I expect that any British
tourist office could provide you with lists of hotels and
prices in Blackpool.

Matthew Huntbach
Newsgroups: uk.politics,soc.culture.british
From: cockburn@majors.enet.dec.com (Craig Cockburn)
Subject: Re: Mortgages (was Re: Simple message)
Organization: Digital Equipment Co. Ltd., Newbury, England
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 16:31:14 GMT


In article <JIM.92Apr14181721@hunter.cs.strath.ac.uk>, jim@cs.strath.ac.uk (Jim Reid) writes...
>In article <1992Apr14.154104.17609@cl.cam.ac.uk> mrw@cl.cam.ac.uk (Michael Warner) writes:
> 
>   Seriously, are banks willing to lend 100% of the purchase price,
>   particularly in today's market where prices are falling ?!?!?
> 
>Of course they are! They get the poor sucker who takes out the
>mortgage to pay for an insurance policy (the mortgage indemnity
>premium) that guarantees the bank or building society gets its money
>back. [i.e. You pay for their risk.] They probably get commission from
>the insurance company for this rip-off as well.
> 

It would depend where you're buying - prices aren't falling nationwide.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Craig Cockburn, Digital Equipment Co. Ltd, Newbury, England.  
  ARPAnet: cockburn@majors.enet.dec.com                            Saor
  UUCP:..!decwrl!majors.enet.dec.com!cockburn                      Alba!

  Views here are my own, and are not necessarily those of Digital
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british