HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gc2n+@andrew.cmu.edu (Greg K Chung)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Server Bug
Date: 27 Jan 93 07:57:08 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.ofNgnoq00VB4Eoy5Jq
	<63715@mimsy.umd.edu>
Organization: Sophomore, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

leonard@mimsy.umd.edu (Leonard Dickens) writes:
> Andrew Markiel writes:
> >While I haven't looked at the code, I'm pretty sure that there's some
> >bug by which a docked ship never generates any fuel, so any fuel it
> >uses must be replaced from the ship it's docked to. 
> 
> Precisely.
> 
> 
> >In this case, the
> >proper fix is to change it so that the docked ship replenishes it's
> >own fuel. How to actually do this, I have no idea.
> 
> See my fix, posted yesterday.
> 
> 
> >This bug was noticed a few years ago, but it wasn't really considered
> >important so nothing ever got done.
> 
> What a strange concept... how could you notice a bug without wanting
> to fix it?   Or at least, want to try to fix it enough to look at the
> code and determine it is an easy fix?  Did Terence know about this?
> 
> 
> 
> -Leonard

I'm glad that this problem has been addressed.  Hopefully, the patch
will soon be implemented on most servers.  The fact that all fuel is
sucked from a base and not self-regenerated greatly limits a base's
usefulness on the front if occasional* stops to a fuel planet can't be
made (when < 20000 fuel).  

Rear Admiral "#9 Base, But SMACKula Played, So #10 Again" Stiletto


*  If Count SMACKula, Sir SMACK-a-lot, Duke of SMACK, and Prince
SMACKwards are docked, that's about every 3 seconds.
From: paulsen@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Brian Paulsen)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: ROBOT SB
Date: 22 Jan 93 19:29:54 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <1993Jan21.153303.63006@cc.usu.edu> sl7sg@cc.usu.edu writes:
>In article <8878@news.duke.edu>, jhammond@acpub.duke.edu (John Kirk Hammond) writes:
>> A robot base can only target and dodge the torps of one ship, right?
>> Given unlimited weapon temp, I would think any decent INL team could
>> kill a robot base first time if it knew anything about timing...

If I'm in town tonight or tomorrow afternoon, I'll set up my bot to handle
ogg waves.  To be fair, I get one escort.  We can experiment how many people
it takes to kill it.

Brian
From: sjsmith@cs.umd.edu (Stephen Joseph Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: What do these things do?
Date: 25 Jan 93 04:43:15 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, University of Maryland at College Park

bodom@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Brian Odom) writes:
>What are some galaxy class 
>servers?  Every time I refit, it`s always prompts me with pressing g for
>galaxy and there is no such ship.  Just curious as to what this ship is and
>why it isn't supported.

Sheesh, you are now 3 for 3 on asking about Really Obscure Things.  Come
on, how about some normal questions, such as "How *does* one become an
Admiral easily?"

Galaxy ships are not supported on most servers because on the servers they
*were* supported on, namely chaos servers, they were far too powerful.
Faster phasers than any ship but the SB were the most notable point.

With all the discussion about "what is a DD's place in netrek?" it's hard
to think of where we'd find place for *another* ship in netrek.  The only
thing I'd really love to do is trade a few cruiser torp damage points for a
few more phaser damage points.  Phaser Scumming is, like Coke, it.

- Gamera
From: sjsmith@cs.umd.edu (Stephen Joseph Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: From the CoUnciLboY:  Changes in list of nominees...
Date: 22 Jan 93 04:33:37 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, University of Maryland at College Park

osyjm@cs.montana.edu (Jaye Mathisen) writes:

>I will step out here on a limb, and extend the idea that the council
>originally proposed, w/o asking for a formal vote, or talking to all of
>them, because voting closes in 2 days.  If Wreck is in the first or second
>vote-getter, a run-off election will be held between him and Gamera to see
>which person will remain.  In either case, the 3rd highest vote-getter will
>take the last seat.

When Wreck was nominated for the INL council, we had a chat about this.  We
briefly considered passing Wreck off as a nasa.gov employee, but decided
against it.  I believe that a run-off is the correct thing to do, exactly
as Jaye specified, in the situation where someone who would normally be
elected to the council is in the same organization as someone who is on the
council.

However, if Wreck is the first or second vote-getter, I'll simplify things:
I'll just resign.  I have complete confidence in Wreck as a member of the
INL council, I can give him all my message logs, and I can bug him directly
in person about things.  In all honesty, I also don't want to get in a
popularity contest with Wreck, 'cause I don't have as many disciples as he
does.  Finally, I consider my fellow council members to be good people with
whom to work, but I would *not* miss the INL council.  The rewards are,
compared to the frustration, relatively quite minimal.

(Visions of the CMU voting cabal^H^H^H^H^Hpopulation switching half their
votes to Wreck first thing tomorrow morning... :^) )

- Gamera
From: ss72+@andrew.cmu.edu (Sean Christopher Simmons)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Not 6, but 4.5
Date: 25 Jan 93 17:42:40 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.8fN=AkO00VpNE3P0oV
	<1993Jan22.094820.29144@cs.su.oz.au>
Organization: Sponsored account, School Of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 22-Jan-93 Not 6, but 4.5
Danny@cs.su.oz.au (1126)

> I don't know about Balton or Spaceace! being able to survive continual
> attacks by 6 captains given one escort, but I am pretty sure I could
> hold any 4 oggers with a really good escort, and I suspect 5.  And I am 
> quite prepared to believe Balton/Spaceace!/Wreck/... can do one better 
> than me.

> Why don't the CMUers try it?  Balton escorted by Spaceace!, attacked by
> ZZnew guy, Akira, MUCUS PIG, ... just keep adding oggers till he blows!


	The Arrogant Assholes did some base Ogging practice sessions.  We found
that if 8 of us Ogged Drewski with Yea Boy!!!! as escort, we could
generally kill him, but it took more than one wave.  I think we only
killed him in one wave once.  Interestingly, that was the time that we
used Assault Ships.  The two of them just couldn't do damage fast enough
to stop us.
	Balton had some sessions vs Team BLOOD in which he was standing off 13
ship waves.  I think that Lumchan was escorting.
	Killing a top quality base at it's homeworld in an INL game is next to
impossible.  However, there aren't that many Top Quality bases out
there.  So many of the top bases have dissapeared.  Balinor no longer
wants to base, Drewski only plays on Sturgeon, and Grim Reaper has been
out of practice for a long time.  Oh well, such is life.

ZZnew guy
From: beorn@elk.Berkeley.EDU (Beorn Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Halftime
Date: 26 Jan 1993 22:07:07 GMT
Organization: UC Berkeley
Distribution: world
Reply-To: beorn@berkeley.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: elk.berkeley.edu

For the record:  I like the half-time idea (however it's implemented) quite
	a bit, and so does everyone I've actually talked to in person
	about it.  I think a couple of scrimmage games should be played
	if either half-time and shorter games are adopted, because actual
	play always tells more about the impact than r.g.n posts.

Now, it does seem to me that if both captains agree to cancel the
	half-time, they should be allowed to hose the other people playing.
	It won't really affect the "comparability" of the games.

I might like to propose a change to the PAUSE feature.  Too many times
	the other team's captain is slow to respond to the pause
	request.  I think that either captain should be allowed to
	unilaterally pause a game for 2 (3? 4?) minutes, but limit the
	number of pauses per team to 2 per half (or a total of 5
	minutes per half).  Don't flame!  It's just an idea . . . but
	think about it this way:  yes, teams will try to use the pause
	feature for strategic advantage.  But it will penalize people
	who screw up their workstation or something, and hopefully
	people will be motivated to make sure their set-up is
	reasonable.

Additionally, can a pause be inserted when a ghostbust occurs?  I assume the
	snafus with last season's pause code have been cleared up.

	Beorn (aka Snidly)
From: hill@norman.VI.RI.CMU.EDU (Robert Hill)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Comparing Ship Types
Date: 22 Jan 93 18:00:42 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.C19op8.22o.2
Reply-To: hill@norman.vi.ri.cmu.edu
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

Ben Polk writes

> 2. Six Captains could easily ogg a Balton base. (True. I've
>    done it.)

When?

> 7. GED is as good a base as Balton.  (Unknown.  We need a
>    base dogfighting server.)

Er, no.  Perhaps a new dogfighting thread should start again?

> 8. Impoved DD cooling is a good thing. (False. Creeping 
>    Improvementism is bad.)

DD's without the etemp improvement are as useless as a (Ob Ged) SB sitting  
in third space without armies.

> Ben "still against improved DD etemp" Polk

Rob
aka Spaceace!
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: ahabig@bigbang.astro.indiana.edu (Alec Habig)
Subject: Re: NEEDED: Server for a machine in Europe
Keywords: netrek
Organization: Indiana University Astrophysics, Bloomington, IN
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 05:29:58 GMT

In article <1993Jan25.192027.494@dxcern.cern.ch> edsall@dxcern.cern.ch (David Edsall) writes:
>   I'm starting a netrek players group at CERN ( Centre European pour
>Recherche Nucleaire ) in Geneva, Switzerland. I have succesfully installed a
>client on a DECstation 5000 and the lag between here and the US isn't bad.
>However, I'd like to install/find a server here in Europe so that more users
>can play. Can someone point me to a binary or source code for a server and/or
>other sites here in Europe with a server that I can play on?

Check out iacrs2.unibe.ch (port 592)

It's only a couple hops from CERN (I know, because I gotta go thru CERN to get
there).

Also, legend.cma.fr, melmac.risc.uni-linz.ac.at, and ghost.dsi.unimi.it are not
too many more hops away (all port 2592).

Do you have any of the authors of ZEBRA on your team?  If so, let me know, it
would be greatly satisfying to ogg their socks off!  :)

	Alec
	(Entropy)

currently at Laboratori Nazionali del Gran Sasso (an INFN site), and extremely
fed up with badly kludged dynamic allocation in FORTRAN.

Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: peterm@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Peter Mardahl)
Subject: Re: Abusive Misuse of Tedd Hadley's Server
Summary: question about base explosion
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 00:43:10 GMT



  Unless I'm remembering incorrectly, an exploding base does about 200
damage.  That's enough to take out any conventional ship except a BB
and an AS, but these always seem to go because they get pounded a bit
before they take out the SB.

  200 damage wouldn't take out another base, necessarily, though
it could go a long way to doing so.  I think a base can take
1100 in hits before it goes, which would mean that six other bases
would have to go to take a fresh base out.

  Let me know if I'm wrong about the 200pt explosions, please...


Peter Mardahl
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: books@fsunuc.physics.fsu.edu (Roger Books)
Subject: Re: glossary
Organization: FSU nuclear physics
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 13:58:07 GMT

In article <gfLoP9y00VpQ8Akopn@andrew.cmu.edu> Sean Christopher Simmons <ss72+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:

>	Two plusses is the default, although one often puts one.  If you don'
t>know if the person is carying, but suspect, post X+?
>
>ZZnew guy

I had wondered what to do in that case.  This is a great idea.  SC bombers
need to be precise.  They are the eyes of the team.  (Do we now get the
discussion about what body functions different positions fill?  I guess
newbies would be the appendix.)

Cirdan
Organization: Sponsored account, School Of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 22:05:13 -0500 
From: Sean Christopher Simmons <ss72+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Impact of 40 second pops
	<C1HLvv.MFt@acsu.buffalo.edu>

Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 27-Jan-93 Re: Impact of 40
second pops Justin D Diachun@acsu.bu (2663)

> I would consider myself as close to a master of using the pop clock as
> anyone is.  And I want to get rid of the 40 second pop cycle.
> Hopefully other good scout bombers will speak up too.


	I considder myself a scout-bomber these days.  You've heard from me
more than enough.

ZZnew guy
From: paulsen@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Brian Paulsen)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Halftime
Date: 26 Jan 93 02:57:47 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <1k27se$f3t@agate.berkeley.edu> tom@soda.berkeley.edu (Tom Holub) writes:
)In article <1993Jan25.222137.107@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU) von@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Steve Von Worley) writes:
))In article <1k1gh3$9eq@agate.berkeley.edu) tom@soda.berkeley.edu (Tom Holub) writes:

)and arguably damaging to stay mentally focused for 2.5 hours.  It's
)also damaging to your hands--it's a fair bet that a large percentage
)of netrek players will wind up with repetitive hand motion disorders
                                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
)sometime in their lives--and when you gotta go, you gotta go. 

I'm betting it's a lot more likely for some rather than others, and
I bet netrek isn't the cause...

Brian
Organization: Design, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 22:15:19 -0500 
From: John Trivelli <jt2n+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Romulan Cruiser?

BTW... the Rom cruiser bitmap is wrong. Change it.

Admiral STAR TREK
From: dodger@planet10.WPI.EDU (DoDGeR)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: glossary
Date: 23 Jan 1993 05:53:34 GMT
Organization: Peace Through Superior Viruses!
NNTP-Posting-Host: planet10.wpi.edu

>
>Well, wouldn't you be hostile if a newbie came to your MUD and started
>pkilling, w/o responding to messages?  Of course.  All i ask a newbie for
>is for him to read team messages.  That's all.  Once he's learned the basics
>of dodging with a Hoser, he can join a team and say "Hi, i'm new to the game,
>please help me."  I'm sure most people out there will give him a hand.
>
>5150
Well...i am a newbie (twink?) and i was wondering one thing...
how does one talk to those screens?
i couldn't figure out how to respond or even tell them that i'd love to go 
out an double team someone...
the best i could manage was to link up with someone and run interference...
thank god i had someone next to me...
THe aRTFuL DoDGeR.

Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: ahabig@bigbang.astro.indiana.edu (Alec Habig)
Subject: Re: Scattered Pops in INL- I vote NO!
Organization: Indiana University Astrophysics, Bloomington, IN
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 11:11:36 GMT

In article <C18vDJ.FI6.1@cs.cmu.edu> spot@CS.CMU.EDU (Scott Draves) writes:
>
>
>wreck> The whole issue boils down to this: do people think that it is
>wreck> interesting and valuable to be able to mentally track pop times
>wreck> and have an idea of when the next pop will be?  I don't.  That
>wreck> is bogus.
>
>is it interesting and valuable to be able to aim torps? it's a far
>more mechanical decision, but is also an important part of the game --
>you would never suggest allowing auto-aim, would you?

This is not a fair comparison.  The 40 second pop thing is a bug in the server
code that some people have learned to exploit.  For the most clued/skilled and
least lagged out there, every little thing that can be turned to their
advantage must be used, since the level of competition for them is so high that
that little bit makes a difference.  For them it is interesting strategy.

Making the obligatory sports analogy, it is the same sort of thing as football
linemen knowing that a certain referee is more prone to call holding calls, so
the defensive linemen act it up a bit more, and the offensive linemen wear
gloves the color of the defense's jerseys to camoflague what they're up to.
Interesting strategies/counter strategies?  Yes.  As much a part of football as
the blocking schemes/stunts the lineman mostly work on?  No.

Pops were intended to be random.  If they weren't, why isn't there just a
reinforcement schedule for new armies?  The 40 second thing is merely a relic
of the way the popping was coded.  The question is now whether or not this
aspect of code should be improved to do a better job at what it was intended 
to do, or to keep the kludgy way around because those who have learned to
exploit the flaw have gotten used to it.

BTW, someone earlier posted an idea to make the popping of armies truely
poisonnian.  This would be the best way to improve the code - zero granularity,
a truely random process (or as close as you can come on a computer).

	Alec
	(Entropy)
From: leonard@mimsy.umd.edu (Leonard Dickens)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: How many +'s to use for carriers
Date: 25 Jan 93 16:12:46 GMT
Organization: Deep Thirteen, Gizmonics Institute

Stephen Joseph Smith writes:
>If you are really upset about someone still carrying, you say
> F3->FED  2 *STILL* +
>or
> F3->FED  Yes, ladies and gentlemen, the ogg target for today is *2*!
>or, if you want that auto-repeat action
> F3->FED  2+!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

or just repeat the
 F3->FED  2+
message every so often until that carrier drops or dies.


>The conventions are:
>(a) If you know that a carrier carries a *certain* number of armies, you
>give the exact number of +'s.  E.g.:
> F3->FED  2+++

Right.  (Meaning, 2 carries exactly three armies.)


>(b) If you know that a carrier carries, but don't know how many, try
> F3->FED  2+

This is acceptable; underestimating the number a person carries is
generally preferable to overestimating.  I also use
 F3->FED  2+? 
for this, meaning "2 carries at least one army, maybe more".  The
convention generalizes; you can say "2+++?" to mean, "2 carries at
least three armies, maybe more". 


>(c) If you don't know that someone's carrying, but you think they might,
> F3->FED  2+?

I use:
 F3->FED 2+++ (?)  
in this case... unlike "2+?", this gives additional info about the
number of armies you think the person might be carrying... you could
even do a combo, I suppose, like "2++? (?)" to indicate that 2 might
be carrying 2 or more armies... but there is never any real use for
that.


>(d) If a Rom with 2 kills is rushing towards a Rom planet, say *nothing*, 
>or if you must, say
> F3->FED  2 soon carries
>DO NOT GIVE A +CALL UNTIL THEY CARRY.  This really annoys me, especially
>when people are *WRONG*.  If you really want to show off, type 2++ in your
>message window, but don't hit return until they pick up.

Right.  The only reason to jump the gun is if you need to free the
message window for other important messages, which is not usually a
problem.

Finally, let me note the '-' convention: if a person drops all their
armies on a planet and gets away, then it is OK to send the team:
 F3->FED  2---
to indicate that three armies were dropped; presumably that player may
now safely be ingnored at least until he or she picks up again.  This
is only useful if there are other people carrying that also need to be
ogged.  "2---" is also frequently used as a gloat after you ogg 2
carrying 3.

-Leonard
From: brandon@cc.usu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: SFB netrek
Date: 27 Jan 93 12:16:11 MDT
Organization: Utah State University

In article <C1InzK.A77@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>, ahabig@bigbang.astro.indiana.edu (Alec Habig) writes:
> SFB is not Star Trek!  SFB is "Star Fleet Battles", and holds the same
> reelation to Star Trek as Netrek does (ie, they stole their ship pictures and
> weapons there).  Thus, I think it would be a Really Cool Thing if Roger
> implemented this (Roger, I'll help ya if I can).

	Actually, SFB is closer to startrek, then netrek, since they *have*
permission from paramount to be similar to startrek.  (I don't know for sure,
but I think they even had/have to pay a little contractual fee)  Sorry, just
thougth I would interject that


		Brandon
		-Lynx

Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: ahabig@bigbang.astro.indiana.edu (Alec Habig)
Subject: Re: Clueless games
Organization: Indiana University Astrophysics, Bloomington, IN
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 09:41:40 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.200749.20528@cs.nott.ac.uk> mjr@trellis.cs.nott.ac.uk (Marcus Roberts) writes:
>Anyway, the point of this rant is to express support for the clue checking
>mechanism outlined here in r.g.n.  I think the idea of having to send a message
>to yourself to prove clue is a good idea.  However, those that fail clue
>tests should'nt be booted - would it be possible to display to them a window
>or something like the MOTD which explains the importance of messages, and
>won't go away until that person sends a message to themselves?

A good idea!  The point of the boot being to force people to learn about
messages, some means of telling them _why_ they were booted would be important.
Of course, they should still be bumped out (otherwise they will minimize the
help screen and continue to wander uselessly), but give 'em a nice big
explanation of _why_ they were booted so they can learn what the server god is
trying to teach them.

	Alec
	(Entropy)
Organization: Sponsored account, School Of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 19:44:33 -0500 
From: Sean Christopher Simmons <ss72+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Comparing Ship Types
	<1ji3dvINNfck@CATHY.NA.CS.YALE.EDU>

Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 19-Jan-93 Re: Comparing Ship
Types Norman Yarvin@cs.yale.ed (2387)

> That's "15% max phaser damage".  More to the point, it is "15 points less
> damage at any range."  So if you are doing 30 point CA phasers, the DD is
> doing 15 point phasers.  Which is a 100% advantage.
> . . .
> <etc>


	True.  I wasn't trying to overdo the bias, but essentially, you're right.

Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 19-Jan-93 Re: Comparing Ship
Types Norman Yarvin@cs.yale.ed (2387)

> >  Lose  12% Hull
> >        12% Shields
> >        12% phaser damage
> >        16% torp damage
> >        31% time at maxwarp
> >        15% torps

> Interesting that you didn't mention the decreased tractor range.  This is a
> large part of what makes CAs so formidable against DDs, and one would expect
> that it would have a similar effect on DD vs SC.  When I last dogfought
> scouts in a DD (Jesus, when was that?  Months ago, probably.), I recall this
> was the case.

	The difference is that the CA's best weapon is its phasers.  This means
that it wants an enemy close to it.  The DD's main weapon (as even
excelent DD players will assert) is it's torps.  While the strong
tractors are an advantage, they are not a main advantage.  Likewise, I
did not list the CA's ability to carry 10 armies.  I also didn't mention
that ships' various masses, which I probably should have.  Sorry.

ZZnew guy
From: tundra@wyatt.ksu.ksu.edu (Daniel G. McDaniel)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: I've found DD's niche in the game!  (Was DD needs improvement.)
Date: 22 Jan 1993 19:36:17 -0600
Organization: Kansas State University
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: wyatt.ksu.ksu.edu


[Hints deleted]

Shhhh.... Stop giving away scumming secrets...

===============================================================================
--Tundra/Dan | "Tis Not how you get the DI but how much you can get..."
   (guest)   |            -- Me (When I thought Rank = Clue) 1992 
===============================================================================

Organization: Senior, Chemical Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA