HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tal@plts.uucp (Tom Limoncelli)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: A Dumb Question, But...
Date: 8 Nov 1992 22:26:41 -0500
Organization: P.L.T.S., North Plainfield, NJ, USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: plts.uucp

In article <BxAzrq.402@hpuerca.atl.hp.com> mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Mike Reaser) writes:

[ Fred Vaughn asks what "GOP" stands for ]

>>Grand Old Party (of the Republic).  I forget the details.
>
>The name comes from politcal cartoons of the 1880's by Thomas Nast.
>
>The same cartoons gave us the symbols of the elephant for the Republican
>Party and the donkey for the Democrats.

He also was the first to draw Santa Claus as we currently envision him,
and was paid by Coca-Cola to draw advertisements with Santa drinking a
bottle of it.

I grew up in Morristown, New Jersey about 10 blocks away from the Nast
house.  In fact, the care-takers were friends of my family.  Every
Christmas the town gets decorated with Nast drawings.  If anyone wants
to hold a motss holiday dinner, we can do it there (oh, I'm sorry, that
would require NYC'ers to leave their city which I'm told they never
do.  I doubt the fact that they can take a train directly to Morristown
will change their mind ;-) )

Anyway, the Nast house is the amazing Victorian home.  It was recently
sold to someone that plans on developing it into a museum.

Motss relevence?  Doesn't every queen love old Victorian houses?

Tom

-- 
Tom Limoncelli -- tal@plts.uucp (home) -- tal@warren.mentorg.com (work)
"TUESDAY, NOVEMBER THIRD" is an anagram for "MANY VOTED, BUSH RETIRED!!!"
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: kraig@athena.cs.uga.edu (Kraig Count)
Subject: Re: Size of LGB Vote
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 18:42:34 GMT

In article <1992Nov06.131956.38260@watson.ibm.com> jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com (Jake Coughlin) writes:
>rjwill6@pbsdts.sdcrc.pacbell.com (Rod Williams):
>> 2.4 percent of those polled identified themselves as
>> homosexual or bisexual, but Murray Edelman, the poll director,
>> believes this was an undercount.
>
>well, he's right.  my exit poll did not ask if *i*
>were LGB.  it asked if i had a friend or relative
>who was LGB (i guess my boyfriend counts.)  and, i
>did fill out the entire form.

Actually I wasn't even asked to be polled.  Of course I was
at the voting booths before they opened, and as a result
was out of them within 5 minutes of them opening.

So the exit pollers (sp) may not have been up yet.

later

kraig

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: "paul bobbitt" <paul.bobbitt@canrem.com>
Subject: social democracy (#2)
Reply-To: "paul bobbitt" <paul.bobbitt@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: soc
Date: 13 Nov 92 13:54:55 EST

HS>Therein lies the big problem in the US today.  Too few people are willing
HS>to pay to help "others" and "society".  This is certainly an area in
HS>which Canada is ahead of us.  I can only help that the "evilness" of taxation
HS>wanes with the Republican lock on the US Presidency.

HS>Howard I. Solomon              |ELECTION '92
HS>Software Support Engineer, SunExpress      |Say goodnight, George.
HS>his@east.sun.com       |

I expect a lot of the "evilness" will wane with the Republican lock
on the U.S. presidency and the U.S. in general.  The ultra-conservative
factions in the Republican party remove any benefit their moderates
might offer.  Until they snap their ties to the religious right, they
must be considered "Public Enemy #1" of the GLBO community.  (Insomuch
as such a community exists...)

Paul D. Bobbitt
---
  DeLuxe 1.25 #7722  Int: paul.bobbitt@canrem.com  GEnie: P.BOBBITT
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
From: phi@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Aeleck)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: from Florida to Colorado
Summary: acouple threads: going to be in Florida, and wanting info
  on Colorado.
Keywords: vacations, bigotry, Florida, Colorado
Date: 5 Nov 92 21:13:20 GMT
Article-I.D.: mentor.Bx9HMB.I70
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center

Everybody else does it, I figured why can't I.

I'm going to be in the Ocala area in Florida this Christmas (Spending
it with the folks) and was wondering what kind of gay community is
in the area.  We (some straight friends and I) will be there for a
week or two and are planning on spending some time at DisneyWorld,
Seaworld, and maybe a couple others. (With at least one trip to the 
beach!)
I don't have a Florida  map handy, but I was kind of wondering how
far Miami is from Orlando? (which is the farthest south I think we're
getting)

So, is there anyone out there?

Also, in a totally different strain, I would like to thank Melinda Shore,
who has come up with a terrific .sig, which she has allowed me to steal. :)

I would also like to put forth the question of any pro-gay, or gay-friendly
companies or corporations in Colorado.  I have a large group of friends here
in Indiana who are willing to boycott those companies that are not "on our
side" and are needing to know which companies are friendly so as not
to make any mistakes.

Thank you all, and more luck in the future,
Patrick                                      /  
                      /          /          /        
     __      __    __/_  _          __     /         
    /  \    /  \    /   / \    /   /  \   / \        "If you're not having
   /   /   /   /   /   /  /   /   /      /\_/         fun, you're doing some-
  /\__/\__/\__/\__/\__/   \__/\__/\___/ /   \__/      thing wrong." -Patrick
 /
/           "Hate is not a family value.  Boycott Colorado" 
                                       -Melinda Shore(shore@tc.cornell.edu)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rjwill6@pbsdts.sdcrc.pacbell.com (Rod Williams)
Subject: Size of LGB Vote
Originator: rjwill6@pbsdts.sdcrc.pacbell.com
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Francisco
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 20:56:35 GMT


In an article on "The Gay Issues" in its Elections section
(11/05/92), The New York Times mentions that the Voter
Research and Surveys (VRS) exit poll was "the first
nationwide poll that asked people leaving voting places if
they were homosexual or bisexual."

2.4 percent of those polled identified themselves as
homosexual or bisexual, but Murray Edelman, the poll director,
believes this was an undercount.  "Many people are reluctant
to disclose their homosexuality, and many do not fill out the
poll questionnaire all the way to the end, where the question
was."  He estimated the gay vote at "possibly 4 or 5 percent,
which would make it the size of the Jewish vote."

Anyway, of those 2.4 percent who identified themselves, 72
percent went for Clinton, 14 percent for Bush, 14 percent for
Perot.

      -----------------------------------------------

Some motss-relevant election results from San Francisco:
Angie Fa, the Asian-American Lesbian president of the Harvey
Milk Progressive Democratic Club, was the top vote-getter
among those running for the School Board (she joins gay
teacher/comedian Tom Ammiano on the board).  Tom Wolfred was
the top vote-getter among those running for the Community
College Board.  Cleve Jones, founder of the Names Project,
failed to win one of the 6 open seats on the SF Board of
Supervisors.  Since Harry Britt has retired, Roberta
Achtenberg (a possible Clinton appointee come January) and
Carole Migden are now the only out lesbians on the Board of
Supes.
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
rod williams -=- pacific bell -=- san francisco -=- rjwill6@pacbell.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: osborn@cs.utexas.edu (John Howard Osborn)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Possible legal tactic
Date: 6 Nov 1992 16:05:52 -0600
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: im4u.cs.utexas.edu

OK.  I'm not a lawyer, etc etc etc...

Consider Mr. Jetson who works at Spacely Sprockets of Colorado, Inc.
Mr. Spacely, enthused by the recent passage of Amendment 2, fires
Mr. Jetson for being a homosexual.  We assume that all this takes
place in one of the cities where antidiscrimination legislation is
in place.

But wait- Jetson sues Spacely, saying "Despite wearing pro-gay T-shirts,
I'm not a homosexual and am, therefore, protected from sexual orientation
discrimination."  Who has the burdon of proof?

Does Spacely have to prove that Jetson is gay, in order to fire him?

Does Jetson have to prove that he is heterosexual, in order to
sue Spacely?

Is Spacely's perception of Jetson being gay sufficient for Jetson to
lose employment protection?


-- 
-
-John H. Osborn                     - Boycott Colorado
-osborn@cs.utexas.edu               - Enforced discrimination MUST NOT STAND
-DOD# 2001  '92 BMW Paris-Dakar     - Queer, Proud, and Angry
From: conway@nmr-z.mgh.harvard.edu (Kevin Conway)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Lesbian and/or Gay Newsletter
Date: 12 Nov 92 18:36:04 GMT
Organization: Mass General Hospital


I'm looking to for a Lesbian and/or Gay Newsletter of an International
flavour that I can subscribe to over the network. Can anyone help me ?

Thanks in advance,

Kevin Conway ------ < conway@cipr-server.mgh.harvard.edu >
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: gpb@gpb-mac. (greg berryman )
Subject: Address for donations
Organization: SPS
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 21:00:26 GMT

This was passed along to me by someone not able to post to soc.motss.

>
> Also, if you know anyone who posts to soc.motss, could you have them
> post it.  I haven't seen this address there. I got it from the
> Windy City Times in there post-election issue.
>
> Equal Protection Campaign (EPOC)
> Box 300467
> Denver, Colorado   80203
>
> Note "Legal challenge" on check and possibly your
> profession and home city.
>


--
These words, opinions and mistakes are mine alone... not Motorola's.
gpb@gpb-mac.sps.mot.com     ____     B0 f-- g- k+ s m h- r p 
Greg Berryman               \  /          (512)928-6014
Motorola                     \/                Austin, Texas, USA
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: ERICH_JAMES_HAYNER@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Orson Scot Card (NOT a flame-fest!)
Date: Thu,  5 Nov 92 18:34:42 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: ba

I've never heard anything negative about O.S.C., in regards to his personal 
life. I will however I can, be at that signing. He is the finest storyteller
I have ever encountered in my many years of reading. I have never introduced 
his work to someone who didn't thoroughly enjoy it. I am certain that he,
being of the Mormon faith, would not agree with my personal styles and
choices of life. Everyone who lives a life possesses a heroic tale to tell.
Perhaps, with Orson's help and heros, I shall live long enough and have the
strength enough to tell mine as vibrantly as he tells his.
	Hell, don't we nag the world enough ourselves about letting people
have their own opinions and privacy apart from our professions?
	By the way, your bookstore and a hot pastrami afterwards is the only
hedonistic experiance I've had in publc on this side of the bay. Now over
in the Castro however, there was this time......
	Sincerely,Erich
ok
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: ECL4JN2@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (Jack B. Nimble)
Subject: Re: Social Democracy
Date: 12 Nov 92 02:22:35 PST

In article <1dbqs8INNbn8@crcnis1.unl.edu>, on 5 Nov 1992 18:58:16 GMT,
cbe@unlinfo.unl.edu (cbe) writes:

>
>ECL4JN2@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (Jack B. Nimble) writes:
>
>
>>3. I don't know enough about Sarver to decide whether I would want to
>>meet him. What I do know is that he has been unjustly accused of being
>>homophobic merely because he made the observation that the media focuses
>>on a certain segment of the GLB community not viewed in great esteem by
>>the public at large when the media cover gay pride parades (This is an
>>observation which has been made, incidentally, by a number of GLB
>>activist groups as well), and that he personally is not attracted to
>>individuals who exhibit those characteristics.
>
>>However, I'd be delighted to meet another one of your betes noires,
>>Matthew Melmon. He has a delicious sense of humor and he runs rings
>>around you in your exchange of articles with him.
>
>>4. I doubt that i would want to meet Clayton; however, I have exchanged
>>articles with him on past occasions.>>
>
>Point 4 is rather startling.  You appear to have so much in
>common. 
>
Appearances can be deceiving; especially to those who suffer from tunnel
vision.


>>        =Jack=
>
>
>Nevertheless, birds of a feather..........
>
Can generate a mess of birdshit.

>
>Colburn Eigen                                  H|u> = E|u>
>
        =Jack=
---

Jack B. Newsbaum             You have rights antecedent to all earthly
Library Information Systems  governments; rights that cannot be
University Research Library  repealed or restrained by human law.
ecl4jn2@mvs.oac.ucla.edu               - John Adams
From: mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon)
Subject: Re: Show biz power
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 21:28:47 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.
Followup-To: soc.motss

In article <1dbv54INN9t1@mizar.usc.edu>, adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
wrote:

> No, this is a separate deal.  The Elton John-Bernie Taupin
> catalogue was worth $39 million to Warner/Chappell.  Prince's
> catalogue was worth $18 million to Warner/Chappell.  But poor
> old Madonna was only worth a sad $10 million to them.  It just
> goes to show that musically speaking, Elton John and Bernie
> Taupin are FOUR TIMES MORE IMPORTANT THAN Madonna.  Prince is
> TWICE AS IMPORTANT as Madonna.


Well, can't argue with that...

<smooch>

*X*
Xref: sparky soc.motss:47273 alt.politics.homosexuality:7110 co.politics:1877
From: fogarty@sir-c.jpl.nasa.gov (Tim Fogarty)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality,co.politics
Subject: Re: Colorado Amendment 2: The First Fatality
Date: 12 Nov 92 22:47:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: elroy.1992Nov12.224714.29303
Organization: JPL, Space Imaging Radar Software Group


In article <1992Nov12.221645.25826@ncar.ucar.edu>,
 gary@colossus.cgd.ucar.edu (Gary Strand) writes:
|>
|>ms> Melinda Shore
|>gs> Gary Strand
|>
|>gs> It does not deny homosexuals equal rights. It denies the the ability of
|>    the state to create quotas for gays, or give gays minority status, and 
|>    it denies gays the use of the legal system to correct alleged cases of 
|>    discrimination. It does not permit gay-bashing.
|>
|>ms> The essence of it is that it legalizes discrimination.  It says that there
|>    is no legal recourse for gay men, lesbians, or bisexuals if we are fired
|>    from our jobs, thrown out of our housing, lose custody of our children,
|>    etc., simply for *being* gay.
|>
|>  My ideal world would contain no such protections for anyone. If you want to
|>  fire me because I'm white, male, and het then that's your right. If I want
|>  to fire you because you're female, gay, bi, a poor dresser, whatever, then
|>  that should be my right.

Take a look at recent history.  Try to really understand what life was really
like for blacks and other minorities prior to 1960.  Only with the civil
rights movement and anti-discrimination laws did things improve. 

|>
|>  Also, there's more than the legal system for seeking recourse. The boycott
|>  you're promoting is one example. I have no problem with it, even though I
|>  voted against #2.
|>

The pupose of anti-discrimination laws is NOT to create law suits.  Laws are 
a deterrant, more to discourage people from discriminating, rather than 
punish them after they discriminate.

|>--
|>Gary Strand                      Opinions stated herein are mine alone and are
|>strandwg@ncar.ucar.edu            not representative of NCAR, UCAR, or the NSF
|>
--
Tim Fogarty
Sys Man and Sys Admin for the EGSE in the POCC at JSC for SRL-1, STS-59
FOGARTY@SIR-C.JPL.NASA.GOV
From: stephena@netcom.com (Stephen Arrants)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Pumping
Date: 10 Nov 92 14:40:36 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <1992Nov9.135250.7613@thinkage.on.ca> kgdykes@thinkage.on.ca (Ken Dykes) writes:
>In article <Bx2sxF.EH@agora.rain.com> bcapps@agora.rain.com (Brent Capps) writes:
>>jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu (Jeffrey C. Burka) writes:
>>>It's amazing how so many people, especially straight, seem eager to *want*
>>>to believe the rumors (much like the <absurd quantity> of semen found
>>>in the rock star's stomach (a rumor I believed when I first heard it in
>>it was supposedly Rod Stewart; this must have been in '77 or '78.
>>What other personalities have supposedly gone under the stomach
>>pump?
>>
>>Brent, who has been known to get pumped on occasion
>
>*BIG* *RED* *PUMPS* ???

That's *JUNGLE RED*, I'll have you know!
From: dgilly@us.oracle.com (Daniel Gilly)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Ageism and Not-Ageism
Date: 10 Nov 92 20:57:19 GMT
Organization: Oracle Corporation, Redwood Shores CA 94065
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <1992Nov9.215722.20964@mips2.ma30.bull.com> raffin@fhr.ma30.bull.com (Patrick Raffin) writes:
>
>Do you think that a 16 year difference is enough to be in this thread ?

I do, especially since you express concerns later on about aging.
Several people (including me) have posted from the younger perspective.  
I'm pleased to hear the older perspective in this discussion, and
I'm sure others would be interested in more of those viewpoints as well.

>in France). We are *very* much in love, I just received from him last week
>the most wonderful love letter I ever received !

Sounds like a wonderful relationship.

>On family events, we usually are invited by both his and my family.

That's a nice feeling.  In Bob's family, our best rapport is with
his daughter.  My "daughter-in-law"  :-) (who is 1 month
older than I am!) and her husband have invited us for Thanksgiving.
They chose us over another relative on the husband's side of the family,
so it was a nice reinforcement of their feelings toward us.

>His mother seems happy to see him with me (although she is rather poor,
>she gives us some gifts now and then !); 

That's great!  Does she ever *say* anything supportive, or does she
stay quiet about the whole issue?  My mother likes us but usually
doesn't discuss deep issues or feelings about our relationship.
She's too uncomfortable with it.

>                                       my mother, however, would prefer
>to see me with someone my own age 

Why do you suppose she feels this way?

>(but she welcomes us).

I'm curious about what the parents'
initial reactions were (for example, the typical "older person taking
advantage of younger" outrage), and how they changed over time.

>Not everything is pink and beautiful however: I'm concerned about ageing
>and so being a weight on him... 

It's admirable to be concerned about your relationship in this way,
but I hope it isn't an all-consuming problem for you.  After all, you
are only about 40, and he is only 16 years younger.  It is possible
for you to spend many, many good years together.

The issue becomes more problematic as the age gap increases.  With
our 28-year difference, it's harder to ignore the practical limits 
to our relationship's longevity.  Sometimes we lament that we didn't 
meet 5 years earlier, or that Bob isn't five years younger, so we
can feel we'll have more time together.  Then we realize, as you say :

>but it's so wonderful to be with him :-) :-)

yes, and maybe that's all that should matter ...
-- 
Daniel Gilly                                   dgilly@us.oracle.com 
                                               Oracle Corporation
------------------------------------------------------------------
From: tdober@llnl.gov (TDO)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Re: Lesbianville on 20/20
Date: 7 Nov 92 03:19:11 GMT
Followup-To: soc.motss
Organization: llnl

In article <1992Nov5.114046.27870@netcom.com>, cjlee@netcom.com (Caroline
Jean Lee) wrote:

> Perhaps instead of creating a separate group, we could request that
> the men in this group (no lack of those!), in particular the regular
> postrs, make more of an effort to post about issues/news relevant to
> lbo  women and take more of an interest in those threads.

It strikes me as inappropriate to ask men to post about topics *they think*
are of interest to women. Women know women's interests better than men
possibly could. It is also likely to be perceived as an imposition; look at
the reception the complaint, "You never post about African-American
issues!" usually gets. The response is usually on the order of, "If you
want threads about a particular topic of interest to you, *start* *them*!"

I think it would be more effective if the men would simply refrain from
sidetracking threads about topics of concern to women.

> Caroline


TDO
--
#include "StdDisclaimer.h"

Pain, like time, is going to come on regardless. Question is, what glorious
moments can you win from life in addition to the pain? -- Lois McMaster
Bujold, _Barrayar_
From: black@sybase.com (Chris Black)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Lou News.
Date: 11 Nov 92 19:16:01 GMT

In article <1992Nov6.084853.2221@nwnexus.WA.COM>, elf@halcyon.com (Elf Sternberg) writes:
|> 
|>    Heard on the radio:
|> 
|>    Lou Mabon today was quoted as saying that he was "very encouraged"
|> by the passage of Colorado-2 and that, with rewording, the Oregon
|> Citizen Alliances' proposed amendment to that state's constitution
|> could be made "more palatable to another voting segment."  Mabon
|> specifically mentioned "references to paedophila" as part of the "more
|> troubling" sections of the referendum.

In other words, he thinks that MORE people will vote for it if it JUST
destroys the lives of EVIL homosexuals while leaving pedophiles alone?

Unclear on the concept (I can only hope).

-- Chris
black@sybase.com
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: frankm@microsoft.com (Frank R.A.J. Maloney)
Subject: Re: Colorado tactics
Date: 07 Nov 92 23:17:08 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Windows/DOS Users Ed Group

I note that Martina Navratilova, girl lesbian, says that
reason 2 succeeded was that the opposition was "too nice". I
don't know whether that's true, I don't even know how
Martina knows. But it's struck me as an interesting
pespective.

-- 
Frank Richard Aloysius Jude Maloney
	"Well, I'm a little muddled." -- Glinda
From: mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Boycott Worse than Pointless
Date: 5 Nov 92 19:14:51 GMT
Followup-To: soc.motss
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.


In case of doubt, call for a boycott, eh?  Perhaps a little
reflection is in order, first?  The election is over.  The vote
has been cast.  Even if the voters in Colorado were to wake up
tomorrow morning slapping their head in shock and dismay, 
exlaiming "What have I done?" - there's nothing that can be 
done about it until the next election.

The only avenue open to countering this amendment is through
the courts.  The courts will not be swayed by a boycott of
all things Coloradean.  

Ergo, a boycott will have *no* *impact* on the resolution of
the crisis in Colorado.

It would be far better to support the Colorado gay community in
their efforts to pursue legal action.  A boycott would have
exactly the opposite effect.  Damage to the Colorado economy
(however slight it may be) will be reflected in the Colorado
gay community.  Thus, the actions of a self-righteous pack of
faggots external to Colorado will be diminishing the ability of 
the Colorado gay community to fight.

Indeed, here we have an amendment saying it is now illegal to toss
someone from their job for being gay.  And how does the American
gay community react?  By seeking to destroy the Colorado economy,
thereby putting them out of work anyway.

Brilliant.  Really fucking brilliant.

God save Colorado from a tide of Totalitarian Tinkerbells.

*X*