HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu (Muffy Barkocy)
Newsgroups: alt.polyamory
Subject: Re: ISO Bi-Fem and Girlfriend
Date: 30 Sep 92 08:12:22
Organization: Natural Language Incorporated
	<MUFFY.92Sep29103638@remarque.berkeley.edu>
	<1992Sep30.130934.24980@tfs.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: remarque.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: ecsd@tfs.com's message of Wed, 30 Sep 1992 13:09:34 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.130934.24980@tfs.com> ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic) writes:
   You should admit that your feelings do not generalize into "the" theory that
   *everyone must accept*. The first step is to ask why you are uncomfortable
   *in yourself* about having your desirability reflected to you. Everyone is
   a sexual creature. Can we admit this and get to the 1st verbal exchange of
   our interaction, on the idea that *maybe* just because the sexual currents
   are there does *not* mean that is all that is in the *man's* mind?

Yeah, Eric, we've heard it all before.  You think that any woman you are
interested in should be grateful for the privilege and you can't
understand why they aren't.

I am not at all uncomfortable about being desirable; in fact, I enjoy it
quite a lot...when it is *me* that the person desires.  When it is
someone like yourself, who will take the first female that holds still
long enough, I find it extremely repellent, and I do not feel that they
are making any statement about my desirability, but only about their
desperation.

My feelings generalize a heck of a lot better than yours; I actually pay
attention to how other people feel.  Try it sometime - you might
suddenly have more success getting people to like you.

Muffy
--

Muffy Barkocy                               muffy@mica.berkeley.edu
~Little round planet/in a big universe/sometimes it looks blessed/
 sometimes it looks cursed/Depends on what you look at, obviously/
 But even more it depends on the way that you see~ - Bruce Cockburn
From: williamt@athena.Eng.Sun.COM (Dances with Drums)
Newsgroups: alt.polyamory
Subject: Re: Attraction & traits (was Re: ISO Bi-Fem and Girlfriend)
Date: 6 Oct 92 14:35:27 GMT
Reply-To: williamt@athena.Eng.sun.com (Dances with Drums)
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: athena

In article <1992Oct5.132407.8090@latcs1.lat.oz.au> woodhous@latcs2.lat.oz.au (Joe P Woodhouse) writes:
>   William - that hits it *precisely* on the head for me. That's why I
>*don't* work with descriptions in terms of traits, likes & dislikes -
>because somewhere along the way, I lose what was *them*. And I'm left with
>a list that really doesn't capture just *who* they are to me.
----
	From my perspective, I've seen that a person can often be defined by
their likes/dislikes/traits/activities, etc.  For example, if I told
you I was a George Bush supported and a born-again Xtian, this would give
you a real different impression of 'who I am' than if I said I am a
libertarian and a Witch who believes in personal choice in everything 
as long as it harms none.  Automatically, I would feel more kinship with
the 2nd person than the first.  I would be more likely to pursue some
sort of relationship (maybe friendship) with the 2nd than the first.  If
they were female and cute and available, I would likely be interested
in the 2nd but not the first.  Does that mean I am treating them as
generic?  I don't think so.  Does that mean I would want them only because
they were 'libertarian and a Witch'?  I don't think so, but if we
insert 'bi & poly' for 'lib. and W.', some people would be likely to
think so.

william
--
 --- "If women really earned fifty-nine cents to the dollar for the same
 work as men, what business could compete effectively by hiring men at
 any level?"    -- Dr. Warren Farrell
Xref: sparky alt.polyamory:1330 soc.women:17165 soc.men:17080
From: fks@vax.ftp.com (Frances K. Selkirk)
Newsgroups: alt.polyamory,soc.women,soc.men
Subject: Re: ISO Bi-Fem and Girlfriend
Date: 29 Sep 92 20:03:43 GMT
Reply-To: fks@ftp.com
Organization: FTP Software, Inc., Wakefield, MA
Nntp-Software: PC/TCP NNTP

In article <lcgqg3INNrlb@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> williamt@athena.Eng.Sun.COM (Dances with Drums) writes:

> In article <1a8ub3INNt3@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> ptd2@po.CWRU.Edu (Palmer T. Davis) writes:
> >would seem to indicate a high degree of interoperability.  However, 
> >most ANSI standard bi-poly females I know tend to be somewhat put off
> >by men whose sole reason in them is that they happen to be bisexual and 
> >polyamorous.  You might have better luck with the male version, though.
> ---
>         Why is there this tendancy in humans, but it seems, especially in
> women, that as soon as they find out you want something, they are
> likely to withhold it or raise the price?

It's quite appealing when a man wants me particularly, and it will
usually increases my interest. When, on the other hand, a man wants
any woman who will do x (for pretty much any value of x) and has
decided I probably will, his appeal plummets. Like most people, I'm
not interested in being treated as a generic. That's what Palmer is
talking about.

--
Frances Kirk Selkirk		 fks@ftp.com	           (508) 685-400
FTP Software, Inc.		 Two High Street, North Andover, MA  01845

"It's well into the latter half of the 20th century. Paranoid misogyny is 
just plain out of style."
From: jclark@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (John Clark)
Newsgroups: alt.polyamory
Subject: Re: ISO Bi-Fem and Girlfriend
Date: 4 Oct 92 23:03:37 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego

In article <lcu5c9INNh05@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> williamt@athena.Eng.sun.com (Dances with Drums) writes:
+
+	Most men don't want be dicks either.  Most men don't want to be
+wallets either.  That's not the point though.  The point was if 

Obvious you've lived a deprived live. Dicks and wallets are utmost
in most men's consciousness. Me, I just have a dick. As for the
'want', most men want to get layed. Of course in polite academic
company their are inclined to not express this, the academic comes
on with some slick intellectual reparte, and impresses the woman
with his grasp of knowledge he just acquired last week in a overview
survey course.  But out in the sticks, the name of the game is getting
layed. (Go to Sacaramento.. Oh show me the way to the next whiskey
bar, oh don't ask why,... Oh show me the way to the next little
girl, oh don't ask why...). One could in a bent mind like mine
extrapolate that sex and what is worth the effort or the cost of the
effort is the cause of 2500 years of western art. But may be because
it's sunday I've gone to far.

+person M was not just casually interested, but really interested when
+they found out that 'F' was bi & poly, -- why is it that many 

Were I free to choose, I would choose a partner who is either
bi/poly or very open and accepting of such on my part This is
basically because I'm tried of trying to proselytize anyone who is not.

But I made a chose otherwise sometime ago and in face of the current
'well, shit I'll just leave 'cause my wife's to uptight' I'm working
on a more peaceful change of relationship which in all likelyhood
will lead to separation.

-- 

John Clark
jclark@ucsd.edu
Xref: sparky alt.polyamory:1361 soc.women:17277 soc.men:17221
From: jclark@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (John Clark)
Newsgroups: alt.polyamory,soc.women,soc.men
Subject: Re: ISO Bi-Fem and Girlfriend
Date: 1 Oct 92 18:02:31 GMT
Followup-To: alt.polyamory
Organization: University of California, San Diego

In article <lcjirvINNa4j@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> williamt@athena.Eng.sun.com (Dances with Drums) writes:
+
+	I didn't think we were talking about 'generic' -- we were talking
+about women who were bi&poly.  That hardly qualifies as generic.

Uh? "Hot bi babes" are generic, since almost all current X-films
require a 'coda' of lesbo love, and the grand entrance of the
ultimately satisfying male, hence poly..


-- 

John Clark
jclark@ucsd.edu
From: jclark@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (John Clark)
Newsgroups: alt.polyamory
Subject: Re: ISO Bi-Fem and Girlfriend
Date: 4 Oct 92 22:40:47 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego

In article <BvK74B.1z8@world.std.com> webber@world.std.com (Robert D Webber) writes:
+
+If I look across a crowded room at someone and think, "That person
+looks physically attractive," and act on that by going over and trying
+to strike up a conversation, I'm presumably acting on some pretty
+superficial perceptions.  If I read you correctly, you would say that
+the person I was trying to talk to would have the right to object
+to my perception of her or him as attractive.  If that is correct,
+then I have to disagree.

No, the person does have the 'right' to object to the activity
resulting from the preception, including 'inordinately' long
glances, sneers, gestures.

I can 'asthetically' appreciate someone in almost any state, being
of Dadaist inclinations. But then so can road kill be appreciated in
an artistic sense. In the case of road kill there is typically no
thought nor a great concern as to whether the road kill appricates
the state of being observed or not.

However, in human social interaction there is a 'balance' between
the appriciative and the leer. If one is in a tantra exercise and
the ritual is staring into the eyes of the other as a 'beloved' then
maybe that social situation is the appropriate one to express one's
'sexual/lust/highest-esteem/...' in the glance. If a woman is at a
party in a cocktail dress and showing her sexuality(what ever that
may mean) I beleive she is entitled to some looks which portend
sexual interrest. However, I feel that many men accord Taxis with
the 'out of service' sign more consideration that women who are not
visably indicting sexual interrest or 'desirablity'.

I will 'excuse' individuals who come form some other culture for a
brief time for commiting inappropriate responses to social cues.
However, for individuals in the culture, there is no-excuse.

On the woman's side I would like the woman to take reponsibility for
being sexual provocative. Again, a woman raised in the US culture
should have by the time she has arrived at adulthood learned the cue
cards and uses them with the reponsibility of adult acceptance that the
cues imply.

There are always inocents, and the laws of society whether state
legislated or socially constructed should protect the immature and
the inexperienced from preditors.

But I also realize there is an awful lot of power involve in the
mating game of 'no means more effort is required'. For women to say
that such games do not exist or are mere reactions to some male
dominance is to belittle the woman's power in sex. The preception of
victims everywhere does no good for bleeding beaten or dead women who
were not even close to displaying sexual interrest.
-- 

John Clark
jclark@ucsd.edu
From: anonymus+1237@godiva.nectar.cs.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.polyamory
Subject: Discreet DWF ISO...
Date: 5 Oct 92 18:47:23 GMT
Organization: Anonymous contact service


	I'm a DWF living in the San Jose/South Bay Ara of California in
	search of a man (110% heterosexual, please) for an intimate
	relationship.

	I work for a major computer company and have a full schedule
	but would drop what I'm doing for just the right person.  I am
	5' 4" have blue eyes, light brown/blonde hair.  I'm into
	healthy habits and exercise or dance several nights a week.  I
	am non-judgmental and very tolerant; enjoy parties; live with
	passion and enthusiasm; and have been known to "stop and smell
	the roses" on many occasions.  I'm in my 40's but my looks and
	outlook on life are that of a much younger person.  I've
	learned to give what I want to receive so plan on receving a
	lot.  (As an FYI, my birth sign is the most passionate and
	intense of the Zodiac.)  Also, your chronological age is not a
	concern to me but I would prefer someone who is mature in their
	thinking, but young in their approach to life.

	The man I'm looking for and would greatly admire, must have a
	highly developed sense of self; is non-possessive; is honest
	without being smarmy; and is intelligent without pomposity.
	I'm NOT into the macho type--I'm interested in someone who is
	willing to use their enthusiasm to enhance the quality of a
	relationship and could be spontaneous to create special
	moments.

	If you wish to explore something exciting and discreet, please
	reply.

	Ann
--
NO TESTS.  To use this service, send mail to (note misspelling, "anonymus"):
Anonymous posting:	anonymus+<name.of.news.group>@godiva.nectar.cs.cmu.edu
Anonymous mail:		<user's alias>@godiva.nectar.cs.cmu.edu
Test path/get alias:	anonymus+ping@godiva.nectar.cs.cmu.edu
Assign nickname:	anonymus+nick@godiva.nectar.cs.cmu.edu	(in Subject:)
Anon administrator:	anonymus+0@godiva.nectar.cs.cmu.edu	(anonymously)
			anonymus+admin@godiva.nectar.cs.cmu.edu	(non-anon)
From: williamt@athena.Eng.Sun.COM (Dances with Drums)
Newsgroups: alt.polyamory
Subject: Re: ISO Bi-Fem and Girlfriend
Date: 1 Oct 92 14:30:40 GMT
Reply-To: williamt@athena.Eng.sun.com (Dances with Drums)
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: athena

In article <MUFFY.92Sep30133423@remarque.berkeley.edu> muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu (Muffy Barkocy) writes:
>then I want to sleep with her), they might well find this a rather
>repellent idea, when they might have been interested in you if you
>looked on them as a person rather than an instance of, for example, a
>polyamorous woman.
---
	You could broaden this statement, Muffy, like suppose a guy wants
a human that is 'female'.  If she is female, he starts off by being
attracted to her.  Surely you cannot be suggesting he ignore the
'female' attribute in his selection.  The attribute is likely to
be a *minimum but not sufficient* attribute toward compatibility.
Now let's look at the 'poly&bi' attribute -- let's assume that this
is an attribute held by only 5% of the women.  Furthermore, it is
a hidden attribute -- something that cannot be determined without
asking.  Now you have a male looking for that attribute -- he 
fumbles along in conversation and finally asks or suggests the
idea of poly/bi to the female he is talking to.  If she responds 
positively, it is only common sense that he would too.  Does this mean
he only wants her because of that?  I don't think so -- it just
means she has an attribute he is seeking.

	As another example, suppose I wanted a woman who could sense, see,
feel and move energies -- something a minority of women would probably
qualify for.  A woman who would have such a (rare?) attribute would
attract my attention much more so than a woman who didn't.  That
doesn't mean she and I can get along, but it would mean she should
at least be thoroughly 'investigated' as a possiblity.

	However, too many women, at that point, would grumble -- oh you
want me just for my attribute 'X'.  I don't think that is usually
the case, though if attribute 'X' is important to a man, I can
see how it might be misinterpreted that way.

>Muffy
william
--
 --- "If women really earned fifty-nine cents to the dollar for the same
 work as men, what business could compete effectively by hiring men at
 any level?"    -- Dr. Warren Farrell
Newsgroups: alt.polyamory
From: Karl_Kleinpaste@cs.cmu.edu
Subject: Re: Hello from anony.
Reply-To: anonymus+admin@godiva.nectar.cs.cmu.edu
Organization: Carnegie-Mellon Univ, Nectar Project
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 20:40:36 GMT

anonymus+521@godiva.nectar.cs.cmu.edu mis-writes:
   +>Hello out there, freako's.

apl@world.std.com writes:
   +And isn't this just exactly what this group needed?  Anonymous assholes 
   +from everywhere sending friendly greetings.

jclark@sdcc3.ucsd.edu writes:
   However, I would like to have the ability to send a message to the
   a.p service provider that an anonymous poster is mis-using the
   service to post hateful drivel which provides nothing to general

I am long since aware of +521's postings (before any of the rest of
you, actually, because that was early enough in the software's
existence that I was literally tailing the logfile of passing mail's
To/From exchanges), chastised him in email about it, and he has since
apologized.  Just testing out of control, apparently, nothing more.

Mind you, I don't know who s/he is beyond "+521" any more than the
rest of you; anyone could have written him/her a note to knock it off.

Any time you've got a beef about asocial behavior from anonymus+###,
let me know, and I'll deal with it.

--karl
From: jclark@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (John Clark)
Newsgroups: alt.polyamory
Subject: Re: So, you're straight... so far. (was Re: Why are you straight?)
Date: 4 Oct 92 22:43:47 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego

In article <whelan.718156583@sbphy.physics.ucsb.edu> whelan@sbphy.physics.ucsb.edu (John T. whelan) writes:
+
+	The difference is that I have yet to hear a good reason other
+than personal taste not to have sex with another man, whereas there
+are good arguments about consensuality by which one can rule out
+bestiality and pedophilia in the abstract.

Consensuality? Then that rules out 'inanimate' toys. Showing your
animocenticism.
-- 

John Clark
jclark@ucsd.edu
Newsgroups: alt.polyamory
From: apl@world.std.com (Anthony P Lawrence)
Subject: Re: Hello from anony.
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 19:54:21 GMT

In article <Bv1G8y.KIn.2@cs.cmu.edu> anonymus+521@godiva.nectar.cs.cmu.edu writes:
>Hello out there, freako's.
>--
>To use this service, send mail to (note misspelling, "anonymus"):
>Anonymous posting:	anonymus+<name.of.news.group>@godiva.nectar.cs.cmu.edu
>Anonymous mail:		<user's alias>@godiva.nectar.cs.cmu.edu
>Test path/get alias:	anonymus+ping@godiva.nectar.cs.cmu.edu
>Assign nickname:	anonymus+nick@godiva.nectar.cs.cmu.edu	(in Subject:)
>Anon administrator:	anonymus+0@godiva.nectar.cs.cmu.edu	(anonymously)
>			anonymus+admin@godiva.nectar.cs.cmu.edu	(non-anon)

And isn't this just exactly what this group needed?  Anonymous assholes 
from everywhere sending friendly greetings.

		Tony



Newsgroups: alt.polyamory
From: jclark@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (John Clark)
Newsgroups: alt.polyamory
Subject: Re: So, you're straight... so far.  (was Re: Why are you straight?)
Date: 3 Oct 92 17:18:22 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego

In article <lcm4m7INNl5q@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> williamt@athena.Eng.sun.com (Dances with Drums) writes:
+
+	Not that I disagree entirely with your post, but to be honest,
+one could use the same justification to say -- well you just are not
+a child molester -- yet, or you just don't like sex with animals --
+yet.  You can use the same arguments about keeping your mind open

If you don't believe that you have the potential for any kind of act
good or evil then you haven't looked far enough -- yet.

Then it comes down to a judgement of what good and evil are.
-- 

John Clark
jclark@ucsd.edu
From: ptd2@po.CWRU.Edu (Palmer T. Davis)
Newsgroups: alt.polyamory
Subject: Re: ISO Bi-Fem and Girlfriend
Date: 29 Sep 1992 06:50:11 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: ptd2@po.CWRU.Edu (Palmer T. Davis)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, anonymus+530@godiva.nectar.cs.cmu.edu () says:
> 
>Nice guy with fettish for two women wishes to meet two open caring 
>females for friendship and more...
> 
>Openness and caring a must... want to share with someone who cares...

Hmmm.  You forgot to mention whether you were from the US, Canada, 
Australia, Asia, or Europe.  You sound vaguely American, and are posting
through a site in Pittsburgh, so I'll assume that you're from the US.
(Correct me if I'm wrong....)

You may be out of luck.  Most ISO bi-poly women are in Europe.  The US
is for the most part dominated by the ANSI standard, although reports
would seem to indicate a high degree of interoperability.  However, 
most ANSI standard bi-poly females I know tend to be somewhat put off
by men whose sole reason in them is that they happen to be bisexual and 
polyamorous.  You might have better luck with the male version, though.

I really don't have very much experience with the ISO standard; would
someone from overseas care to comment on the differences?  (Obviously,
I'm going to have to arrange for a field test one of these days....)

-- PTD --

(As usual, of course, IBM has its own ``standard'' that is completely
incompatible with both ANSI and ISO.  But who in hir right mind would
be interested in Phyllis Schlafly?)
-- 
Palmer T. Davis      ___
<ptd2@po.cwru.edu>   \X/   cthread.  cthread_fork().  Fork, thread, fork!
Xref: sparky alt.polyamory:1345 soc.women:17223 soc.men:17150
From: zen@death.corp.sun.com (d)
Newsgroups: alt.polyamory,soc.women,soc.men
Subject: Re: ISO Bi-Fem and Girlfriend
Date: 30 Sep 92 14:53:07 GMT
	<lcgqg3INNrlb@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>
Organization: savage hackers
NNTP-Posting-Host: death.corp.sun.com
In-reply-to: williamt@athena.Eng.Sun.COM's message of 29 Sep 1992 14:36:51 GMT


In article <lcgqg3INNrlb@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> williamt@athena.Eng.Sun.COM (Dances with Drums) writes:
>   Why is there this tendancy in humans, but it seems, especially in
>   women, that as soon as they find out you want something, they are
>   likely to withhold it or raise the price?

  It sounds more human than woman oriented to me.  Perhaps they smell
your desperation, I don't know.  It doesn't happen to me.

 -- d
From: williamt@athena.Eng.Sun.COM (Dances with Drums)
Newsgroups: alt.polyamory
Subject: Re: sustainability of relationships
Date: 1 Oct 92 14:33:42 GMT
Reply-To: williamt@athena.Eng.sun.com (Dances with Drums)
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: athena

In article <38840@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> jclark@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (John Clark) writes:
>However, just as dyads are pulled by social forces, the polyads are
>too. One long term group collection call Kerista disintegrated into
>monads, dyads, and polyads. I don't know the details, just gossip.
----
	This is the 2nd or 3rd time I've heard the word 'Kerista'.  But the
word also seems familiar to me.  Why?  What is it???  Where...etc.??

william
--
 --- "If women really earned fifty-nine cents to the dollar for the same
 work as men, what business could compete effectively by hiring men at
 any level?"    -- Dr. Warren Farrell
Xref: sparky alt.polyamory:1392 soc.men:17319 soc.women:17360