HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: david@eos.ncsu.edu (JOSEPH WAYNE DAVID)
Subject: Re: Want recommendations for 1-man tents, bivvy sacs
Originator: david@c30003-2410br.mae.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: david@eos.ncsu.edu (JOSEPH WAYNE DAVID)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 16:17:31 GMT


In article <lg61e2INN3np@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>, avv@primo.Eng.Sun.COM (Vince Vasquez) writes:
|> Path: taco!rock!stanford.edu!ames!sun-barr!news2me.EBay.Sun.COM!exodus.Eng.Sun.COM!primo.Eng.Sun.COM!avv
|> From: avv@primo.Eng.Sun.COM (Vince Vasquez)
|> Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
|> Subject: Want recommendations for 1-man tents, bivvy sacs
|> Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 20:32:50 EST
|> Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA
|> Lines: 11
|> Message-ID: <lg61e2INN3np@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>
|> NNTP-Posting-Host: primo
|> 
|> I'm looking for recommendations for 1-man tents and bivvy sacs.
|> I'm not too familiar with bivvy sacs, so would appreciate knowing
|> some of the pros and cons versus tents (other than presumably weight)
|> 
|> I'm not looking for tarps or shelters, but something that would
|> hold up reasonably well in rain. (Ideally, I'd like to find a 
|> 4-season solution.)
|> 
|> Thanks,
|> 
|> Antonio
|> 

Just bought a Moss Outland one person tent. Light (5 lbs), free standing
and is a four season tent. I am very pleased with it. It is well made
(in America) and is expensive ($340.00).

Moss Tents
Camden, MA
(207) 236-8368
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: JB <jbl@mesaadm.cre.nt.com>
Subject: Re: Abbey bashing.  Was: Trip rpt: SE Utah 4wd vacation, part 3/4
X-Xxdate: Wed, 18 Nov 92 08:16:32 GMT
Organization: NT/BNR
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d9
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 13:17:18 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.232921.16325@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> Karl A.
Anderson, karl@thuja.gsfc.nasa.gov writes:
>long discussion on birth ethics deleted.............

Careful, JB's about to get sanctimonious again..........

Questions to ask yourself is population is truly one of your concerns:

1) Am I willing to forego having children?
2)  Am I willing to take the steps to see that this happens?
3) If no, am I willing to have only one child?
4) Should birth control and sex education be in the public schools?
5) Am I willing for my tax dollars to pay for this?
6) Do my congressmen know how I feel?
7) Do I feel that abortion is a viable form of population control?
8) Am I willing for my tax dollars to pay for this?
9) Do I feel that all of the above are just "women's issues" that have no
bearing on my     life and should not be major parts of the political
spectrum?

If you answered yes to number 9, then shut the fuck up about the
population problem.
............Flame away.

***************************************************************
**** Laissez le bontemps rouler ****  JB  *  no e-mail address *
***************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: allen%asylum.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Allen Sanderson)
Subject: Re: Guide info
Date: 17 Nov 92 15:51:03 MST
Keywords: guide
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept

mratliff@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Michael S. Ratliff) writes:
>How does one get a concessionaire's permit from the USFS?  I was told
>they are hard to get.  Do you get a permit for only one park at a
>time?  Can I get a permit for more then park at a time?

Not to sound a bit pretentious but before deciding to become a guide I
would suggest you take some time to learn about who runs our parks and
wilderness.  In general the Forest Service does not run parks, they
run National Forests, the National Parks Service runs national
parks or state agencies run state parks, etc. etc.  After seeing two
posts on this I would have to wonder about a person's qualifications if
they have to ask on the net about being a guide.

Cheers,


Allen R. Sanderson

Salt Lake City, Oootah

"Great spirits have always encounter violent opposition from
mediocre minds."
	- Albert Einstein
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,sci.environment,talk.environment,alt.wolves
Subject: Re: Alaska to shoot hundreds of wolves from airplanes
Date: 21 Nov 1992 01:19:35 GMT
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
Distribution: world
Reply-To: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu

In article <1992Nov20.193758.7601@meteor.wisc.edu>, tobis@meteor.wisc.edu
(Michael Tobis) writes:
=This reminds me of the practice so common around here of    
=hatching vast quantities of fish in fish farms and then tossing them into
=lakes for people to catch. Not only is this another "market distortion"
=in the ecological balance, but it also strikes me as damned silly. Why not
=just give the fish away, rather than throwing them in the lake to be caught 
=again? Then people who wanted to go out in a rowboat and dangle a string in
=the water could do so to their heart's content without worrying about hooks
=and bait and so on (not to mention mercury and dioxin, sigh...).

You seem to have a rather odd idea of what sport fishing's all about.  Yes,
some people will go in armed with a virtually indestructable pole and line
that's nearly an order of magnitude stronger than what the fish might be able
to break.  There are others who go fishing using light line.  Rather than just
pulling in the fish by main strength once it's been hooked, they have to take
quite some time landing it, in order to avoid snapping the line.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL

Disclaimer:  Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS.  That's what I get paid for.  My
understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below).  So
unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my
organization responsible for it.  If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to
hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: dencisco@eos.arc.nasa.gov (David Paul Encisco)
Subject: Re: The overpopulation problem. NOT!
Organization: NASA Ames Research Center
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 22:18:26 GMT

cvakgaaq@vmsb.is.csupomona.edu writes:

>> The first 50 people to get in a 50-person lifeboat have a perfect right
>> to tell the 51st "Sorry, next one".
>>> 	Austin Moseley

>	Situational ethics consist of introducing a contradiction then asking
>the challenged to resolve the unresolvable. It's illogical.

Situational ethics...never heard of that branch. It's not "illogical" as
you say, but rather a logical impossibility. Secondly, since you've
called it "situational ethics" we're talking about a morally right
and morally wrong argument. But the example is a conceptual argument
and the conclusions are speculative. Any "wise" Ethics instructor
would reject this type of reasoning.

Now human carry capacity of let's say Madagascar is a far better
example.  A comparison would be fallacious as well, although it does
provide for a reasonable warning and a slightly more apropos conclusion.
Environmental immigration is another interesting aspect of population
dispersion. I think we may be showing some early signs of that now in the
S.F. Bay Area.

>If 4 billion people can exist at subsistence conditions in
>collectivist countries, then perhaps 30 billion could be comfortable in
>Capitalist, free nations in their place.

Perhaps, or maybe in an capitalistic corporate oligarchy like...
never the less, 30 billion people will need to make a living. Got
any ideas? 

And I haven't heard much from you Austin, welcome back!

Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: sjp@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Steve Phillips)
Subject: Re: Chattahochee recomendation
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 22:14:48 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard NARC Atlanta
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1.3 PL5

hang the Chattachochee, try the Cohutta wilderness.
Its sorta touristy but a short hike is to go up I75,
enter the Cohuttas from the north and hike the Beech Bottom
Trail down to Jacks River Falls, about 3 miles good geo/hydro.
There are !lots! of state parks in N. GA with these same features.
See Unicoi, Anna Ruby Falls, Tallulah Gorge, Amacolola Falls etc.
From: ed@titipu.resun.com (Edward Reid)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Multiplying in the Backcountry (kids/population)
Date: 20 Nov 92 17:36:52 GMT
Reply-To: ed@titipu.resun.com (Edward Reid)
Distribution: na
Organization: Accuracy, Ltd.
X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.6v0

hall@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Hal F Lillywhite) writes:
> If you want to reduce the birth rate, forget the preaching and worry
> about economics.

Economics and education.  The two are intertwined, of course, but education
will have a salutory effect even by itself.

Edward Reid  (8*}>
  eel:   ed@titipu.resun.com  or  nosc.mil!titipu.resun.com!ed
  snail: PO Box 378/Greensboro FL 32330
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: eacj@theory.TC.Cornell.EDU (Julian Vrieslander)
Subject: Thanks for the suggestions (was: Re: Cat mistakes sleeping bag for litterbox)
Organization: Cornell Theory Center
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 02:41:31 GMT

Well most of them, anyway.  My girlfriend did not appreciate the feline
taxidermy concept.

We may just write off the bag.  The thing has been marinating in that closet
for several weeks.  It may take a thermonuclear device to get out the last bit
of catpiss odor.  And I was a bit alarmed by a comment submitted by one
netter, who claimed that even a bit of odor left in the bag could have an
unpredictable effect on other animals out there in the bush.  Since I like
to ramble in bear country, such comments are taken seriously.

-- 
Julian Vrieslander 
Neurobiology & Behavior, Mudd Hall, Cornell University, Ithaca NY 14853    
INTERNET: eacj@theory.tc.cornell.edu     BITNET: eacj@crnlthry
UUCP: ..cornell!batcomputer!eacj
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: czichon@psyche.csc.ti.com (Cary Czichon)
Subject: Re: Hunter shoots partner
Organization: Texas Instruments
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 16:09:01 GMT

In article <BxzzIM.L7s@world.std.com> ari@world.std.com
(Ari I Halberstadt) writes:

>Excuse me, he thought his partner was a DEER? Since when do humans look like
>deers? Obviously, he had to take aim with his gun or he wouldn't have hit the
>victim, which means he at least took a good look in the general direction of
>his partner.

The terms "hunter" and "climber" are grossly misused by the news media.
Simply buying a rifle and a license doesn't make you a hunter, nor does
hauling a rope up a rock face make you a climber.  Chances are the "hunter"
didn't aim at his partner, merely shot at a sound in the bushes.  More people
do this during deer season that you might imagine.  And it's usually not a
single shot, but a rapid sequence of shots from a semi-automatic, high-powered
rifle (slugs in a shotgun for some states).  I did a little small game
subsistence hunting in Hoosier National Forest when in graduate school at IU.
Occasionally, I saw some mind boggling things.

>Most hunters may be smarter than deer...

Many aren't.

Cary Czichon
czichon@csc.ti.com
Xref: sparky rec.backcountry:9172 talk.environment:4743
From: tucker@shiva.edsg.hac.com (George Tucker)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,talk.environment
Subject: Re: Alaska to shoot hundreds of wolves from airplanes
Date: 23 Nov 92 18:07:29 GMT
Reply-To: tucker@shiva.UUCP (George Tucker)
Organization: Hughes Aircraft Co., El Segundo, CA

In article <1ek28iINNc0s@hpscdf.scd.hp.com> sommer@scd.hp.com (Jeremy Sommer) writes:
>>cvakgaaq@vmsb.is.csupomona.edu wrote:
>>:...
>>: 	The funny thing about this is that in the next few centuries the
>>: populations in the North will decrease because the treeline is rapidly moving
>>: south in response to Global cooling caused by the Milankovitch cycle. The
>>                                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>                                                    what is this???

A 2-wheel version of the Milankovitch truck.  It utilizes variations in the
gravitational field of the Sun at Earth orbit to power the vehicle, thus 
reducing carbon-dioxide emissions.  Available from your local Yugo-Trabant
dealer.  

Not to be confused with the Milosevic, which burns thoroughly cleansed
ethnicol.


BTW, I finally realized that when Alaskans favoring shooting the wolves speak of
"tourists", they mean those who pay big money to shoot something big.  The
people who drive and hike are just obnoxious rabble.

	 George Tucker        tucker@shiva.hac.com
	Signature line awaiting FDA approval.
From: onlit@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Drew)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: supermarket backpacking
Date: 19 Nov 92 23:22:03 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

In article <ahallam.721789834@pv2119.vincent.iastate.edu> ahallam@iastate.edu (J A Hallam) writes:
>There was a book in the late 70's called the Supermarket Backpacker
>that suggested ways to use supermarket as ooposed to specialzed
>food for backpacking....    

Have you ever had Chinese food in your backpacking trip?  I have.  Well, first
of all, I'm Chinese (from Hong Kong).  However, if there is a decent oriental
supermarket in your area, you may be able to find some decent dehydrated 
Chinese food.  They are packed in paper box on the outside.  When you open them
up they look very much like those dehydrated food packs you can find in REI
but they taste much better!  

anDrew 
-- 
+-----------   @}-'--   -----------+  "To Serve, To Strive and Not to Yield"
|      Lee, On-Lit Andrew          |               - Motto of Outward Bound 
|                                  | 
|  email: onlit@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu |  "Your disability is your opportunity"
|  University of Texas at Austin   |               - Kurt Hahn,  
+----------------------------------+                 Founder of Outward Bound 
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: cgates@mitre.org (Curt Gates)
Subject: Re: Abbey bashing.
Organization: The MITRE Corporation
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 14:09:35 GMT

In article <1e90ekINNnhk@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> bh419@cleveland.Freenet.Edu 
(Ted B Samsel) writes:
> At least Old Ed never wore Lycra!!Or Spandex!!

Yea, and anybody who worked as a tech writer for GE editing Army manuals on how to dispose of sewage in permafrost and was fired after two weeks for staring out the window at the river -- and hated white shirts -- cant be all that bad.

Xref: sparky rec.backcountry:9106 sci.environment:12913 talk.environment:4707 alt.wolves:239
From: sommer@scd.hp.com (Jeremy Sommer)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,sci.environment,talk.environment,alt.wolves
Subject: Re: Alaska to shoot hundreds of wolves from airplanes
Date: 21 Nov 1992 01:09:38 GMT
Organization: Hewlett Packard Santa Clara Division
NNTP-Posting-Host: hpscau.scd.hp.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

cvakgaaq@vmsb.is.csupomona.edu wrote:
:...
: 	The funny thing about this is that in the next few centuries the
: populations in the North will decrease because the treeline is rapidly moving
: south in response to Global cooling caused by the Milankovitch cycle. The
                                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
                                                    what is this???

-Jeremy Sommer
From: maral@repare.EBay.Sun.COM (Mark Maral)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: OHV books?
Date: 16 Nov 92 18:26:38 GMT
Reply-To: maral@repare.EBay.Sun.COM
Distribution: ca
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: repare.ebay.sun.com

Does anyone know of a good OHV book for trails in California?
I'm looking for something that has maps, level of difficulty,
interesting sites, etc.  

Thanks in advance
From: onlit@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Drew)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Warm clothing while hiking
Date: 19 Nov 92 22:59:48 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

>In article 1274@ole.cdac.com, ssave@ole.cdac.com (The Devil Reincarnate) writes:
>> I need some recommendations for clothing while hiking in cool/cold/chilly 
>>weather.  I find that I warm up quite a bit soon after I start walking and
>>it becomes uncomfortable to keep the same clothes on. On the other hand, the
>>moment I stop for a break, within 10 min or so, I get chilled to the bone!

My recommendation to you is to keep a windbreaker or sweater at the top of
your rucksack.  This way, when you stop you can put something on.  However,
take it off before you start walking again.  As you know, you'll warm up 
pretty soon.  

anDrew 
-- 
+-----------   @}-'--   -----------+  "To Serve, To Strive and Not to Yield"
|      Lee, On-Lit Andrew          |               - Motto of Outward Bound 
|                                  | 
|  email: onlit@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu |  "Your disability is your opportunity"
|  University of Texas at Austin   |               - Kurt Hahn,  
+----------------------------------+                 Founder of Outward Bound
From: ed@titipu.resun.com (Edward Reid)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Started out as Abbey bashing.
Date: 20 Nov 92 17:07:52 GMT
Reply-To: ed@titipu.resun.com (Edward Reid)
Organization: Accuracy, Ltd.
X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.6v0

jahn@guinness.Idbsu.EDU (Greg Jahn) writes:
> What a terrible thing to do to those quiet, undisturbed places!
> More specifically, the places that had no mining/cattle/damming
> possibilities ... in other words, the places that would now be
> better off if no one went there ...

Places like Glen Canyon ...

Edward Reid  (8*}>
  eel:   ed@titipu.resun.com  or  nosc.mil!titipu.resun.com!ed
  snail: PO Box 378/Greensboro FL 32330
From: oreagan@oasys.dt.navy.mil (William Oreagan)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Abbey bashing.
Date: 17 Nov 92 20:12:40 GMT
Reply-To: oreagan@oasys.dt.navy.mil (William Oreagan)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD

In rec.backcountry, trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna) writes:
!Christian sentiments asside, the loss of a snake is a tragedy.  The
!loss of a human is insignificant, or possibly a blessing.  (This all

This self deprecation has always annoyed me. The snake surely doesn't
think ITS demise is more desirable than YOURS.  But if you truly feel
that way,  Goodbye.

!less than a hundred square miles in the '60s, now covers five hundred
!square miles.  Similar statistics were given for Colorado Springs,
!Pueblo, Fort Collins, etc.
!-Wayne Trzyna
And vast civilizations have come and gone. And dinosaurs ruled the world.
Xref: sparky rec.backcountry:9076 rec.climbing:4566 rec.skiing:7769 ca.earthquakes:1378 misc.emerg-services:4739
From: Greg Dilley
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,rec.climbing,rec.skiing,ca.earthquakes,misc.emerg-services
Subject: Wilderness First Aid Class
Date: 16 Nov 1992 17:24:53 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: ca
Reply-To: greg@antizen.EBay.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: antizen.ebay.sun.com

Earthbound Medical Rescue is the current Wilderness Medicine training
contractor for the Department of the Interior, Geological Survey.

Earthbound is holding their winter session Wilderness Medicine class
and workshop on Dec. 5 & 6 at Alum Rock Park in San Jose, CA from 8:30 to 5:00. 
The cost is $100.00.

No prerequisite is required, however prior first-aid training is helpful.
Participants will be provided a list of pre-class study subjects.

A certificate of completion will be given upon completion of the class.
The curriculum is the same that is currently being taught to the field
personnel from the Geological Survey. The class will be a combination of 
lecture, demonstration and hands-on practicals and scenarios. This class 
is designed to provide participants with a focussed working knowledge and
skills in first-aid required to provide care for those injured or ill
hours or days away from communications with emergency medical services
or care by a physician.

Registration should be completed by Nov. 27th. Checks should be made 
payable to:

Earthbound Medical Rescue
390 N. 12th st.
San Jose, CA
95112
From: v206gb6c@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (IS AN ILLEGAL PERSON NAME)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Kelty Radial Light 4sale ($175)
Date: 21 Nov 92 21:13:00 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

Kelty Radial Light
-external frame pack
-probably the most comfortable external frame ever
-4300 cubic inch, 3/4 length pack bag
-extendable lid with zippered pocket
-top loading main compartment with internal divider
-inverted U shaped zippered opening at division
-internal compression straps
-external compression straps
-side stiffeners to aid in load control
-external pockets are available
-top/side/bottom Fasttab lashing points
-ice axe loops
-charcoal grey and black with red and yellow trim
-red rain cover included (normally @ $20)
-lifetime warranty
-new $240
-asking $175

This pack is in excellent condition.  It has been used on a few trips
totalling less than 30 days.  I'm selling it because I need to pay my
rent in a few weeks and I have 2 other packs I use more often. 
Please e-mail me if you are interested.

PauL M SchwartZ  (-Z-)  |  Follow men's eyes as they look to the skies
v206gb6c@ubvms.BitNet   |         the shifting shafts of shining 
pms@geog.buffalo.edu    |        weave the fabric of their dreams
pms@acsu.buffalo.edu    |                    - RUSH -
Xref: sparky rec.backcountry:9101 rec.climbing:4572 rec.skiing:7783 ca.earthquakes:1381 misc.emerg-services:4752
From: johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,rec.climbing,rec.skiing,ca.earthquakes,misc.emerg-services
Subject: Re: Bachelor anyone?
Date: 20 Nov 92 23:10:14 GMT
Followup-To: rec.backcountry
Distribution: ca
Organization: Auspex Systems, Inc.

Yes.  Confirmed.
-- 
+==========================================================================+
| John Fereira        | Auspex Systems | "Ask me about my vow of silence." |
| johnf@auspex.com    | Santa Clara CA |                                   |
+==========================================================================+
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna)
Subject: Re: Multiplying in the Backcountry (kids/population)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 17:33:30 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department

In article <10780@vice.ICO.TEK.COM> hall@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Hal F Lillywhite) writes:
>In article <Bxw5LE.ErA@rice.edu> sbyrnes@rice.edu (Steven Byrnes) writes:
>
>>According to the CIA World Fact Book, available electronically via Project
>>Gutenberg, the United States' total fertility rate is 1.8 children born per
>>woman as of 1991.  (The net migratation rate, according to this source, is
>>2 migrants per 1,000 population as of 1991.)
>
>Interesting, especially if we do a bit of arithmetic on these
>numbers.  If we assume the average woman lives 80 years this is 160
>immigrants per 1000 population during her lifetime.  Approximately
>half the population is female giving 160 immigrants per 500 females
>or 0.32 average immigrants per female over her lifetime.  Adding
>this to the 1.8 average children she bears we get 2.12 new additions
>to the population for each female over her lifetime.  Since I don't
>remember the exact replacement rate needed I'm not sure if this
>represents positive or negative population growth, but it must be
>close to the borderline.  A 5.66% death rate of females prior to
>maturity would put it at exactly flat growth.  Of course I am
>assuming an average lifetime for adult females which may not be
>correct but I think we are in the ballpark.  Immigration rates of
>course fluctuate quite a bit so I don't think we are going to get an
>exact answer anyway.

If the statistics imply that the population is not growing, then
the statistics are OBVIOUSLY incorrect.  Sheesh!


-- 

-Wayne Trzyna
 trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry