HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: chowj@leland.Stanford.EDU (Jim Sean Chow)
Subject: Re: NASA is accused of racism against Asian Americans
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 92 00:19:37 GMT

In article <lb22h8INNlqd@news.bbn.com> ahsiung@labs-n.bbn.com (Anita Hsiung) writes:
>Samuel S. Tai writes:
>>
>>As I recall, this took place at the Ames Research Laboratory.  I haven't
>>heard if this was resolved or not.  Maybe there's a news blackout at Ames
>>while the investigation continues.  (Caveat:  I'm just idly speculating
>>that there may be a blackout.)
>
>I read this article in Aviation Week a couple of weeks ago.  According
>to AW, five or so Asians (one American born Chinese, a few naturalized
>Chinese and Japanese, and one Korean, I think) came in one morning to
>find their papers rifled through, but no one else's touched.  It
>wasn't clear what prompted the search.
>
>I would distrust the "racist" angle until I find out more about this
>incident.  Was this a random security check or did DISCO (Defense
>investigative company) have reason to suspect an Asian of not
>following proper security procedures?  If so, then they have every
>right to check any Asian's desk.  If not, we have a problem.  Did
>everyone sit together and one person just happened to go through the
>first few desks he or she found?  I don't know.  We need to keep a
>lookout for follow-up information.
>
>	-- Anita --
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>| Anita Hsiung       | "See how easy life can be?" -- Johnathan Raven     |
>| ahsiung@bbn.com    |                                                    |
>| BBN Canoga Park    | "Someday we'll look back on this moment...and      |
>| California, USA    |  run smack into the car in front of us."  -- Ski   |
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------



The security search at NASA/AMES allegedly concerned technology transfer 
issues to foreign countries (porting of government aerospace computer codes).
The majority (although not all) of those searched/locked out of there offices,
were of Asian descent.  No further actions have been taken as of yet,
and those who have been investigated have been allowed to go back to
their offices and log-on to their computer accounts again.

Although completely legal, the whole affair has left a bad taste for a lot
of people.  Morale could be better.  It seems the original order for the
investigation came from very near the top of management, but a full
explanation, has still not been given (and will it EVER be given?).

Personally, the large # of Asians involved in the investigation seems
suspicious.  Admittedly, a large # of the people at AMES having foreign
national contact are asians, but it also seems like they are an
convenient/easy target.
From: t9014111@phillip.edu.au
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: message to KIM FOO
Date: 10 Sep 92 16:55:08 GMT
Organization: RMIT (Bundoora Campus)

Hey Kimbo,
	So hows the creating a new australian asian newsgroup going dude???
I wrote this big humungous article the other day....and I mistakenly sent it to
African.American!!!! whaqt a laugh!!??

		Seeya in Vax or the BBALL court.
				LOVE LEONARD
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: kemnitz@netcom.com (Greg Kemnitz)
Subject: Re: Clinton and Foreigners
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 92 23:42:09 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Summary: What about the Two Pats and Herr Duke...

Riiiiight.  And the party of Duke, Gingrich, and Buchanan has the highest
respect for the basic diversity of our nation.  After all, didn't the
Convention embrace the concept that diversity is an innate part of what it is
to be an American - NOT!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Greg Kemnitz                        | "I ran out of the room - I
MultiMedia Information Systems Inc. | didn't want to be killed by a pile
kemnitz@netcom.com                  | of VMS manuals" :-)
                                    |
                                    | --A friend at DEC Palo Alto in the Quake
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,alt.discrimination
From: U58402@uicvm.uic.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: "Chinese-Americans..."
Date: 13 Sep 92 20:14:29 GMT
 <1992Sep9.165911.27067@panix.com> <1992Sep9.221415.17665@leland.Stanford.EDU>
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago

In article <1992Sep9.221415.17665@leland.Stanford.EDU>,
underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) says:
>
>By the way, Ms. Yuan's arguments might be more convincing if her facts
>were correct.  She wrote, "...shared by billions of people..."  This would
>suggest that she is referring to at least 2 billion since "billions"
>is plural.
>


Mr. Joe has a history of making up facts and quotes to bolster his weak,
irrational, arguments.

Mr. Joe twists the definition of words to suit his purposes.

This is rather like the pot calling the kettle blakc, is it not?

Wilbur Pan
(aka u58402@uicvm.uic.edu
 at the ever so friendly and personal univ. of ill. at chicago)
From: hassan@cup.portal.com (hassan monu alam)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Clinton and Foreigners
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 92 16:33:53 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

	>Bill Clinton promises
	>to take America back for Americans.

	>It shouldn't be too hard
	>to figure out who he considers to be "Americans,"
	>and who he wants to "take it back" from.

	>If you're a US citizen,
	>please register while there's still time
	>and please get out and vote.

	>If you're a foreign national applying for citizenship,
	>please coax your friends who can to register and vote.

	>Don't just stand by doing nothing,
	>and let Clinton slam America's door on the world.


>pssres12@ucs.usl.edu	Gerard Vignes, USL PO Box 42709, Lafayette LA 70504 USA

I see you are using poetic licence with your verse :-).

If you believe Bush's "Thousand Points of Light", I suggest you read
the collective lips of Republican party stalwarts like (ex) Secretary
Bennet and (ex) presidential candidate Buchannan. 

They would "Stop the Barbarians at the Gates."

Hassan
From: ahsiung@bbn.com (Anita Hsiung)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: NASA is accused of racism against Asian Americans
Date: 11 Sep 1992 21:05:44 GMT
Organization: Bolt Beranek and Newman Inc., Cambridge MA
Reply-To: ahsiung@labs-n.bbn.com (Anita Hsiung)
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com

Samuel S. Tai writes:
>
>As I recall, this took place at the Ames Research Laboratory.  I haven't
>heard if this was resolved or not.  Maybe there's a news blackout at Ames
>while the investigation continues.  (Caveat:  I'm just idly speculating
>that there may be a blackout.)

I read this article in Aviation Week a couple of weeks ago.  According
to AW, five or so Asians (one American born Chinese, a few naturalized
Chinese and Japanese, and one Korean, I think) came in one morning to
find their papers rifled through, but no one else's touched.  It
wasn't clear what prompted the search.

I would distrust the "racist" angle until I find out more about this
incident.  Was this a random security check or did DISCO (Defense
investigative company) have reason to suspect an Asian of not
following proper security procedures?  If so, then they have every
right to check any Asian's desk.  If not, we have a problem.  Did
everyone sit together and one person just happened to go through the
first few desks he or she found?  I don't know.  We need to keep a
lookout for follow-up information.

	-- Anita --

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Anita Hsiung       | "See how easy life can be?" -- Johnathan Raven     |
| ahsiung@bbn.com    |                                                    |
| BBN Canoga Park    | "Someday we'll look back on this moment...and      |
| California, USA    |  run smack into the car in front of us."  -- Ski   |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: shin@duck.ee.udel.edu (Jeong-Gyun Shin)
Subject: Re: Perceptions, Realities, blah, blah, blah
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 15:53:40 GMT

In article <1992Sep6.025008.6458@cascade.Stanford.EDU> underdog@leland.stanford.edu (Dwight Joe) writes:
>As a side note, this dire poverty, which was caused directly by the
>rape of China by the upper classes, was largely responsible for the
>success of the communists in rallying the underclasses (which is almost
>everyone in Chinese society) against the Nationalists and their upper-class
>"chums".  After the communists under Mao won the revolution, the
>underclasses went after the upperclasses with a vengeance; many
>in the upperclasses who didn't escape to Taiwan and neighboring areas
>were executed.

So what's your point, Dwight Joe?  After running down Chinese history
of past 100 years or so in a single paragrah, does that show you D.Joe
inferiority of Chinese culture, again?   Reading last issue of Time
magazine, Essay section, there is a line where it quotes a line from
John Adams having said something of Judeo-Christian tradition as most
bloody one.  Ahh, then Dwight Joe's Western culture does not come from
Judeo Christian tradition!  Well, obviously, one has to keep in mind 
differences of statures of people like John Adams and Dwight Joe, time 
frame and circumstances (there was not Mao in John Adams' time), but 
that's what Dwight Joe has been consistent about: inconsistency at its 
best besides being a bald liar.
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Friday, 11 Sep 1992 10:14:46 CDT
From: <U58402@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: "Chinese-Americans..."
 <1992Sep7.212324.19675@leland.Stanford.EDU>

In article <1992Sep7.212324.19675@leland.Stanford.EDU>,
underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) says:
>
>Being Chinese-cu has nothing to do with being Chinese-ge.  Only a
>racist would think that there's something unnatural about
>Chinese-(ge)-Americans "who have no Chinese 'culture' in them".
>Racists think that genes determine behavior; one such racist
>is Mr. Wilbur Pan (u58402@uicvm.uic.edu).
>


     "When _I_ use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone, I
choose it to mean -- neither more nor less."
     "The question is," said Alice, "whether you _can_ make words mean
so many different things."
     "The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master --
that's all."
                     --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass


Mr. Joe seems to take Humpty Dumpty's position on the use of the English
language. The definition of racist is one who believes in the inherent
superiority of one race over others, and based on that belief, believes
that discrimination is therefore justified. It does not mean a belief
that genes determine behavior; if that were so, then a great deal of
modern medicine would be considered racist.

Calling someone racist does not make him one.

I have never said, nor do I believe, that the Chinese people are
inherently superior to other peoples. Nor have I said that other races
are somehow inferior to the Chinese. What I do believe is that each
nationality has its own special qualities, and vive la difference.

Being a Chinese-American, I draw from both cultures. Mr. Joe seems unable to
comprehend the possibility that one can draw from two equally rich heritages.

Mr. Joe has repeatedly stated that he believes Chinese culture should be
wiped from the face of the earth. This includes, by his definition, the
arts, dance, music, and literature. He has stated that Chinese culture
is inferior to American culture without acknowledging elements of racism
in American and European history. (And if you think that these elements
are buried in the past, talk to the people in Sarajevo or south central
L.A.) This is the definition of a racist.

Mr. Joe has also made up quotes to support his arguments. This makes him
a liar and a racist.

Unless, of course, Mr. Joe is himself Chinese. Then he is only a liar.

Wilbur Pan
(aka u58402@uicvm.uic.edu
 at the ever so friendly and personal univ. of ill. at chicago)
From: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Perceptions, Realities, Perceptions
Date: 7 Sep 92 16:41:54 GMT
Reply-To: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Organization: Curious Goods (formerly Louis Vendredi Antiques)

yjhbhc@dante.lbl.gov (Joe Huang) writes:
>
>2) Because of the Chinese Exclusion Act and its corollary laws, the
>   Chinese American community down to the 1920's was made up mostly of
>   bachelors and sojourners. As a result, even among "established" 
>   Chinese American families, it's difficult to find one that has 
>   lived continuously and exclusively in the US for more than two 
>   generations (Hawaii excluded). 

There was similiar legislation in Canada in almost-overlapping time
periods.  My grandfathers were able to come over as migrant workers
but could not get citizenship; a form of non-citizen track permanent
residence was available at the time.  There was a small time window
where spouses and children could have been brought over, but that time
was either squandered or paperwork resulted in few families coming
over ... members of Mother's immediate clan made it to Saskatchewan,
where they were probably the only non-Christian, non-Europeans (along
with the non-Christian (Jewish) Bronfmans, who were building their
Seagram liquor empire by exporting to the United States at the time
(we didn't have Prohibition up north)).  Because of the discontinuity,
my parents were born abroad and did not land in Canada 'til after the
Second World War.  Luckily, my granddads were only in their 50's ...
older guys grew apart from their wives and families except for
continued wiring of money to "home", electing not to bring them 
over or their families chosen not to come, and died alone.

>4) For families that have lived continuously in the US or Canada for
>   generations, their language retention falls precipitously even in 
>   the second generation.  In SF, native-born Chinese Americans who
>   grew up in the 40's can speak, but not read, vernacular Cantonese 
>   due to Chinatown's insularity and attending Chinese schools,
>   while those who have grown up after WWII generally have from 
>   limited to no language skills in Chinese.  There are, of course, 
>   exceptions and those people are to be praised (from my viewpoint),
>   but in general, Chinese Americans are doing no better job than 
>   other ethnic groups in retaining their language.  The Chinese that 
>   one hears in Chinatowns are mostly by immigrants, many of them 
>   newly arrived. 

Harking back to my previous note on "experiential thresholds", what
Joe Wang is seeing among his contemporaries, and upon which he may be
generalizing, is probably what my own father saw after arriving in
Canada as a teen.  What a lot of us have experienced and are basing
our writings upon will probably mirror the experiences Joe's children
will have ...

gld
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Je me souviens ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gary L. Dare				
> gld@cunixB.cc.columbia.EDU		Oct 26/92: Just say "OUI!"
> gld@cunixc.BITNET			(Let's worry about the economy!)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: Michael F. Kamprath <kamprath@space-grant.sprl.umich.edu>
Subject: NASA is accused of racism against Asian Americans
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 92 11:56:18 EDT
Organization: University of Michigan, Aerospace Engineering
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d9
X-Xxmessage-Id: <A6D3972AFB01C4FC@sprl-mac2016.sprl.umich.edu>
X-Xxdate: Wed, 9 Sep 92 11:57:30 GMT

I read a article in Aviation Week and Space Technology about two weeks
ago that might be of interest on s.c.asian.a.  The basic synopsis is:

A group of scientist were locked out of their offices about three weeks
ago at one of the NASA bases (I can't remember off the top my head).  The
reasoning for locking them out was that they were under invetigation for
being what surmounts to a "security threat."  But there was a definate pattern
in the people who were locked out: of the four, three were Asian-American,
and one was White who married to an Asian-American (proof to all those who
believe that this group would be of no interest to non-Asians that they just
might be wrong :-)).  Upon notification of the situation, NASA administrator
Goldwin promised a thorough investigation to determine if  racist motives
were used in the lock out.  No word as of yet as to the results of the 
investigation.

If anybosy is interested, I could go find that the AW&ST issue in my apartment
and post it here.

========================================================================
| Michael F. Kamprath                   | The University of Michigan   |
|   kamprath@space-grant.sprl.umich.edu |      Aerospace Engineering   |
|   kamprath@engin.umich.edu            |                              |
|---------------------------------------+------------------------------+
|       And if a man can't change the world these days,                |
|       I still believe he can change his own destiny.                 |
|                                 --Michael Peters (The Alarm)         |
|                                   "The Spirit of '76"                |
========================================================================
Xref: sparky soc.culture.asian.american:8933 alt.discrimination:4300
From: nina@panix.com (Nina Yuan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: "Chinese-Americans..."
Date: 11 Sep 92 04:39:17 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC
Followups-To: soc.culture.asian.american

Note: I'm not sure why Mr. Joe cross-posted this to alt.discrimination, but
it's a good thing I also read this group, since for some reason this post
did not make it to s.c.a.a. at my site, and it'd be a shame if I couldn't
respond.

In <1992Sep10.225548.8711@leland.Stanford.EDU> underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:

>In article <1992Sep10.033608.937@panix.com> nina@panix.com (Nina Yuan) writes:
>>In <1992Sep9.221415.17665@leland.Stanford.EDU> underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU
>>(Dwight Joe) writes:
>>[stupidity deleted to save bandwidth]
>>>Note that Mr. Cheng later retracted part of his position and noted that
>>>ethnicity does not determine culture.  Hence, I retract my accusation.
>>
>>That's nice.  Incidentally, I apologize to all the other members of s.c.a.a.
>>who are wading though this little discussion (if indeed anyone is reading
>>it); my originaly purpose in responding to E. Cheng's post was to point out
>>to him that most people on s.c.a.a. were not "accusing" him of anything, not
>>to get into an argument with Mr. Joe.

>The original statement made by Mr. Cheng is racist.  A racist is one who
>believes that genetics determines behavior and hence that ethnicity determines
>culture.  Anyone who feels "scared" that, say, a Japanese-ge is culturally
>Western with no Japanese-cu culture is a racist.

>Here is the original quote from Mr. Cheng.  Note that Ms. Yuan does not
>feel that this is a racist comment by Mr. Cheng.  I believe otherwise.

Hey, I'll do Mr. Joe one better and include Mr. Cheng's entire post, for
the benefit of alt.discrimination readers:

-----------------------
From soc.culture.asian.american Fri Sep 11 00:09:58 1992
From: edcheng@terapin.com (Edmund Cheng)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: "Chinese-Americans..."
Date: 7 Sep 92 01:25:00 PST
Organization: BBS

        Hello...excuse me, but I'm new at this....but.... I have read a few
posts by different people about themselves or others and them being
"Chinese-American" or "Chinese" or whatever.  I have asked myself many
questions about this.  I am an American born Chinese, but I feel no less
Chinese than a person from the mainland.  But I am American too, I live an
american life.  So I cannot exclude one culture or the other.  This all may
sound totally ignorant to you all, but keep in mind I'm a Junior in High
School.  
        I know many Chinese-Americans... Some which have no Chinese "culture"
in them.  The only thing that distinguishes them from any caucasian is their
last names and their faces.  This scares me.  I don't want to lose my
"identity", my language..I want to be Chinese.  But in the past few months I
have talked to other people and been to many places.  I used to consider myself
Chinese period.  But I have learned that the American Culture is a big
part of my life.  And I'm proud of it too.  So I don't think anyone that is
Asian and living in the US can exclude either of their heritages.  I am just
Chinese-American.......
                        -Zheng Yip Wing
----------------------

So Mr. Cheng, a high school junior and newcomer to s.c.a.a. and its
elaborate politically correct (after a fashion) nomenclature, ventures to
post about HIS DESIRE to balance Chinese and American culture IN HIS OWN
LIFE.  The first followup to his post is written by Mr. Joe, who, quoting
the first sentence of the second paragraph, calls the statement "racist,"
"but then Mr. Cheng is a Chinese-cu."

Since I won't presume to speak for Mr. Cheng, I'll just give MY interpretation
of his statement: as a Chinese-American to whom Chinese and American culture
are equally important, it scares him to think he might become someone who
practices only Chinese culture or only American culture, because that's not
who HE is.  What if he was a scholar of medieval English culture, and said,
gee, it scares me to see people who don't study medieval England, because
*I* wouldn't want to live that way because medieval England is important to
me?  Is that racist?  I don't think so.  Mr. Cheng ISN'T saying, gee,
Chinese-Americans who can't fluently read Ancient Chinese are betraying
their culture because they are ethnically Chinese and HAVE to read ancient
Chinese; THAT would be racist.  He's just commenting on what's important 
TO HIM.

Since this discussion, if it belongs anywhere, belong in s.c.a.a., followups
are directed there (I think).

-nhy

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nina H. Yuan
Harvard College             Panix -- Public Access Unix & Internet of NYC
yuan1@husc.harvard.edu      nina@panix.com
From: mday@jukebox.lcs.mit.edu (Mark Day)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: labour day
Date: 8 Sep 92 03:23:56 GMT
Organization: MIT Laboratory for Computer Science


   timlee@public.btr.com writes:

   luk@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu writes:
   |
   |Does anyone know why the labour day in US is on Sept, instead of on May 1?
   |Pardon me if it is a stupid question...couldn't fall asleep last night.

   According to an almanac, Labor Day in the USA was signed into law on
   June 28, 1894.  Perhaps someone else can say when/how other nations'
   Labo[u]r Days came into being.

The irony is that Labo[u]r Day on May 1st (the date it's celebrated in
most countries) started as a commemoration of the Haymarket riots,
which happened in... the USA!  (In Chicago, I think).  I think the
connection with Evil Communists and Bomb-Throwing Anarchists was too
much for the U.S.  Congress to stomach, so they picked a different
day, but I don't know why they chose the day they did.

--Mark Day

mday@lcs.mit.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american