From: tcox@ssrl01.slac.stanford.edu (Tony Cox - (415)926-3105)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.medicine,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Statement of President Clinton on Health Care Reform Task Force
Date: 27 Jan 93 11:30:24 -0800
Organization: SSRL, Stanford Synchrotron Radiation Lab
NNTP-Posting-Host: ssrl01.slac.stanford.edu

      zursch@whizkid.wpd.sgi.com (Jeffrey B. Zurschmeide), writes
>
>In article <C1H6AK.2In@umassd.edu> pmsc13sg@UMASSD.EDU writes:
>>Yeah, that's right. The government should steal money from those who 
>>have it and give it to those who don't...
>
   {various insults, probably well deserved, directed at SG deleted}
>
   {moans about insurance companies deleted}
>
   {and then this...}
>
>The point is, you will pay for it one way or another. You can either
>shut up and pay taxes and get some warm fuzzy somewhere in
>your being that you are doing your part to keep your fellow humans
>out of poverty and degradation, or you can work to achieve some 
>Libertarian fantasy world. Which, now that I think about it, isn't
>such a bad thing for you to do, since it will keep you out of the way
>of those of us who have real work to do. But even if you achieve 
>some kind of Libertarian/Feudal utopia, you'll pay for security
>*from* the poor if you don't pay for security *for* the poor. Louis
>XVI found that out the hard way....   
>

   A number of misconceptions in this diatribe need to be exposed,
   although I hesitate to be seen as an apologist for Mr Grossman and
   his strange world.

   Very little of those taxes that you get `warm and fuzzy' about
   paying end up fighting poverty and degradation. Most come back to
   you, and others who are not poor. However, on the trip to Washington and
   back, a large fraction ends up being wasted, squandered and
   misappropriated.

   Louis XVI notwithstanding, intelligent people still question why,
   if government spends 40% of GNP and we _still_ have poor people (in
   record numbers), increasing it would improve matters.

   Serious Libertarians do not live in a fantasy world, nor do they
   advocate a fantasy government. America had such a small scale
   government for the first 130odd years of its history, and became
   rich and prosperous as a result.

   Libertarianism has nothing in common with Feudalism.

   Libertarians are not callous, selfish monsters. I, for one, do
   charity work and get quite a buzz out of it. The fact that
   Libertarians think that others shouldn't be _forced_ to help others
   doesn't make them immoral, any more than your demands that others
   foot the bill for what you think is good makes you morally
   superior.

>Am I the only one who gets bored stiff listening to Libertarian 
>drivel all the time?  You'd think that we were living under maoism
>in this country the way these bozos whine about everything...Bill
>Clinton starts talking about basic health coverage and they start
>going on like he's gonna come by and steal the food right outta
>their children's mouths. Get a grip and grow up, people.
>

   I expect you aren't the only one, but instead of deciding to "shut
   up and pay your taxes", why not try to meet these arguments head
   on?

   There have been many thoughtful attempts to address the `crisis' in
   the health care situation in the USA expressed by various
   libertarian (small l) contributors to this group.  Why do _you_
   think that health care costs are now at 12% of GNP and still
   rising? Why aren't we being gouged by the food industry, or the
   travel industry, or the computer industry? Why doesn't _your_
   health insurance policy meet your needs? Why can't the poor afford
   health care?

   People of my persuasion get very nervous when the president starts
   talking about universal health care because we perceive it as an
   machiavllian attempt to `pluck' a plum which has become so ripe on
   government meddling. If a socialized medicine system is ever
   introduced in the US, it will increase the federal government
   control of the economy by a third (from approx 25% to 32% of GNP).
   This is the fast track to tyranny, and well worth fighting to
   prevent.

Tony Cox, Stanford, CA
Xref: sparky talk.politics.medicine:752 alt.peeves:19724