From: elrond@studio.disney.com (Root System Account)
Newsgroups: alt.personals
Subject: Re: Gays in the Military
Date: 27 Jan 1993 17:44:19 GMT
Organization: The Walt Disney Company
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Thomas E. Gray (tegray@phoenix.Princeton.EDU) wrote:
: Mike, this satire fails for two reasons. First, it isn't funny, and
: second there is no real analogy to be drawn between the situation that
: gays face in a working environment dominated by heterosexuals and the
: situation that black men face in an environment dominated by white
: men. 

I'm not so sure about that.  Discrimination is discrimination, what
particular flavor it comes in doesn't really matter.  The fact of the
matter is that historically, EVERY TIME that the military is asked 
to back off a discriminatory position it make the SAME arguments.
They weren't right when they made them about integrating blacks into
white units, and they weren't right about allowing women into the
military (and they aren't right about women in combat either for
that matter). They certainly aren't right about gays.  The fact of  
the matter is that gays serve in the military now, and always have 
and many have distinguished themselves.

: The question of showers (so often raised these last few days) is not a
: joking one. It is not a misunderstanding of a homosexual to believe
: that he/she may be aroused by showering with others of the same sex
: any more than it is a misunderstanding to believe that heterosexual
: men or women may be aroused by showering with people of the opposite
: sex. It is the feeling of discomfort (call it "shame" or "modesty" or
: what you will) and self-consciousness that arises from nakedness with
: those who are sexually attracted to a person that is at issue here. 

Well, this shows a real lack of understanding when it comes to gays.
All of the gays I know indicate that there is no kind of sexual arousal
involved with being in this kind of situation since they know that 
no one there would be even remotely interested in them sexually. Besides
your suggesting that PEOPLE have no control over their desires. Frankly
I would give everyone more credit than that.  Finally, what about 
situations that involve contact between men and women in the military?
There are any number of situations which place men and women in close
contact. What about any sexual tension that might arise through those
situations?  Or, are you suggesting that women shouldn't be allowed
to serve in the military either?

: If you think about the logical extensions of that discomfort into
: various interactions in the military you might very well conclude that
: avowed homosexuals in the military would, in fact,  interfere with
: the ability of the organization to perform its job. You might conclude
: that such a situation would not be detrimental, but you should do so
: only after thinking about the real issues involved. Not all
: discrimination is the same. 

As I mentioned above, there are any number of situations where sexual
tension MIGHT arise between people in the military.  Again, are you
suggesting that ANY sort of situation of this kind needs to be avoided?
If so, then you need an all heterosexual MALE military, which, I don't
think is acceptable to our society any longer.

: Please don't forget that the government is in the business of
: discriminating, and rightly so. It is the job of the government to
: decide who can drink, who can vote, whom one can marry, what is
: pornography and what is art, etc. 

But, we expect it to discriminate ONLY when some over-riding concern
FORCES it to do so.  I don't see the over-riding concern here.  All I
see is a lot of fear and homophobia.

--joerg
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