HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gary@colossus.cgd.ucar.edu (Gary Strand)
Subject: Re: Colorado Amendment 2: The First Fatality
Organization: Climate and Global Dynamics Division/NCAR, Boulder, CO
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 22:16:45 GMT

ms> Melinda Shore
gs> Gary Strand

gs> It does not deny homosexuals equal rights. It denies the the ability of
    the state to create quotas for gays, or give gays minority status, and 
    it denies gays the use of the legal system to correct alleged cases of 
    discrimination. It does not permit gay-bashing.

ms> The essence of it is that it legalizes discrimination.  It says that there
    is no legal recourse for gay men, lesbians, or bisexuals if we are fired
    from our jobs, thrown out of our housing, lose custody of our children,
    etc., simply for *being* gay.

  My ideal world would contain no such protections for anyone. If you want to
  fire me because I'm white, male, and het then that's your right. If I want
  to fire you because you're female, gay, bi, a poor dresser, whatever, then
  that should be my right.

  Also, there's more than the legal system for seeking recourse. The boycott
  you're promoting is one example. I have no problem with it, even though I
  voted against #2.

ms> When you consider that 30% of teen suicides are related to sexual identity
    crises perhaps you can start to understand the effect that rampant anti-gay
    hostility has.

  The man who committed suicide wasn't a teenager, and I would be hesitant to
  use reasons for teenage suicides as proof of some sort of fault with society.
  Teenagers commit suicide for puppy love, because they have bad skin, because
  they don't get good grades, because Dad didn't let them have the car, and so
  on. Teenagers are, for the most part, so emotionally immature and insecure
  about themselves that they can commit suicide for incredibly bizarre reasons.

  In any case, I don't recall many blacks committing suicide because of the
  racism they suffered, and it's a lot easier to bash blacks than it is to
  bash gays.

--
Gary Strand                      Opinions stated herein are mine alone and are
strandwg@ncar.ucar.edu            not representative of NCAR, UCAR, or the NSF
From: bcapps@agora.rain.com (Brent Capps)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: telecom
Date: 2 Nov 92 14:57:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: agora.Bx3G7r.9JF
Organization: Open Communications Forum

kgdykes@thinkage.on.ca (Ken Dykes) writes:

>In article <1992Oct31.115248.14731@panix.com> mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik) writes:
>>I (who didn't even _have_ separate voice and data lines until two
>>weeks ago) signed off:
>>ry@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (ryerson.schwark) typically overreacts:
>> >Eaaaaaaauuuuuuu!  GROSS!  Mixing your voice and data lines is DISGUSTING.
>> >Isn't there something in leviticus about that?
>>
>>Not in the Kinkajouish version.  We think that if you want separate
>>lines for phone and data that's great, but if you want to use the
>>same line that's okay too, and if you want to have lots of lines and
>>just use them however is handy for you, well, as long as the party
>>at the other end thinks it's okay, we don't mind.  Unless there's
>>a fax involved.  But that's a different chapter.

>Oh my.
>its possible i may have committed a Fax Pas a couple weeks ago.

A few years ago there was an (unsuccessful) line sharing technology
called data over voice.  However, people thought it was unfair that voice
never got to be on top once in a while.

"Sweet mystery of life, at last I found you...this is a recording..."

Brent, who lets his fingers do the walking
-- 
Brent Capps                          | 
bcapps@agora.rain.com (gay stuff)    | okay, but wash it first.
bcapps@atlastele.com (telecom stuff) |
From: markm@ogicse.ogi.edu (Mark Morrissey)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: In a New Stall
Keywords: Rob Bernardo,Oriana
Date: 11 Nov 92 19:00:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.45706
Organization: Oregon Graduate Institute (formerly OGC), Beaverton, OR

In article <1992Nov11.011415.5401@netcom!ncselxsi!mtdiablo> oriana@netcom!ncselxsi!mtdiablo (Oriana Spadix) writes:
>Howdy horse-lovers!

Spring returns after a long winter.  Life proves to be a continuation of
interconnected thought, ideas and emotions.

It is wonderful to have you back, Oriana.  Thank you for the tear 
which your name brought to these tired old eyes.

The first thought I had after reading Oriana's  message was that all
the pain and agony of OR:9 was worth it.

goddamn, but I miss you, Rob.

Excuse me now, my allergies seem to be acting up.

e-carrots

--mark
--
Mark Morrissey           One Hatred to rule them all.  One Hatred to find them.
markm@cse.ogi.edu        One Hatred to bring them all and in the darkness bind
                         them.  In the land of Bigotry where the Shadows lie.

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Subject: Private CO anti-disc. policies
Organization: insert anything here
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 19:09:36 GMT

entropy@world.std.com (The Entropic one) writes:
>I would strongly suggest not boycotting companies who have anti discrimination
>policies. I think the damage done by doing so is greater than any benefit
>gained. If a company in Colorado has an anti discrimination policy we have
>already "won" there. 

	Yes, I agree wholeheartedly...

>If as a result most companies abopt anti discrimination policies and the
>admendment stays we have still won, and we have a victory that the CFV 
>can do nothing about.

	I'm not too certain about this.  For exmaple no one has
categorically stated that the following cannot happen:

	Person X works for Acme Widgets that has a non-discrimination
policy.  X gets a new boss Y who is phobic and proceeds to fire X,
*despite* the policy, with the real reason interpretable as orientation.
Acme chooses to look the other way.

	Under 2, is X prevented from sueing Acme?  

	I think that it is quite possible that no matter what
Acme says about having such an anti-discrimination rule, and that
2 doesn't negate a private's company having one (unlike the 
city/county ordinances being wiped), it might be *impossible* to
take a company to court over ANY issue regarding orientation,
despite arrangements to the contrary.

	Now maybe one gets around this by arguing that the anti-discrimination
policy is some kind of contract and the contract has been violated.
I suspect though that many law people would see 2 as passively
rendering any enforcement of anti-discrimination policies at a
private level pretty much an internal matter, with *no* recourse
in the public arena, *including* court cases.

	(Remember 2 *does* say discriminatees do not have any legal
recourse under the law on the basis of orientation.  It does not
claim this is so only for public employees of the state/local 
governments!)


	I think this is a question that someone should get a "real"
opinion on!

BBC
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: phi@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Aeleck)
Subject: real.life.soc.motss (was Re: hello)
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 21:10:59 GMT

In article <1do26lINNos1@mizar.usc.edu> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
>*Please* start a thread that I can follow-up on real.life.soc.motss.

Ok, I'll bite, BUT only because you asked me to.  (*Blush*)  :)

>Arne

Patrick                                      /  
                      /          /          /        
     __      __    __/_  _          __     /         
    /  \    /  \    /   / \    /   /  \   / \        "If you're not having
   /   /   /   /   /   /  /   /   /      /\_/         fun, you're doing some-
  /\__/\__/\__/\__/\__/   \__/\__/\___/ /   \__/      thing wrong." -Patrick
 /
/           "Hate is not a family value.  Boycott Colorado" 
                                       -Melinda Shore(shore@tc.cornell.edu)
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Mouse Balls
Date: 10 Nov 92 04:03:46 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Nov10.040346.11316
Reply-To: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

In article <45552@ogicse.ogi.edu> markm@ogicse.ogi.edu (Mark Morrissey) writes:
>yes, Parc did invent the mouse

you mean Apple didn't? I thought they invented the combustion engine,
the mouse, and the GUI!

                __
nelson@reed.edu \/   Delicious & Nutritious breakfast cereals shot from guns!
From: elle@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Ellen Keyne Seebacher)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Social Democracy
Date: 10 Nov 92 18:18:30 GMT
Reply-To: elle@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

In article <19921109235404ECL4JN2@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU> 
 ECL4JN2@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (Jack B. Nimble) writes:
>...passages in the Talmud that justify lying to tax collectors ... by
>claiming that portions of one's property is set aside for a heave offering ...

A "heave offering"...?  I'd say that's a particularly serendipitous term
for some of the postings in this newsgroup.

E-smooches to Cr*t*n and company,

--                    __
Ellen Keyne Seebacher \/             elle@midway.uchicago.edu
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Subject: Re: the purpose of soc.motss (was: off-topic discussions)
Organization: insert anything here
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 23:11:58 GMT

dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:

>Well, you know these class-of-'94's: not-gay is what they study in
>school and how they act in class, and gay is what they do when they
>get together amongst themselves to dance on the tables with the
>shades drawn.  Or maybe they debate politics these days; I'm not
>sure.

	Oh hell no.  The "p" word is really low - it's too icky.
"Icky" is now an all-purpose word to reflect anything they can't 
open their minds enough to let in - be it diversity, action outside
of dancing, or finding out what is going on outside of Melrose Place.

	It is a real treat (and reassuring) to find people who
don't fit this mold.  Fortunately there are several incredible
role-models (the best-looking models are role models) on the *.motss
groups.  Sadly, there' aren't enough on IRC.  But that's no longer my problem.

	I don't think it's a thing about being "not-gay' unless you're
in El Paso.  What is usually expressed is the not-being-too-gay thing.

BBC

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: balistik@big-brother.nevada.edu (Shawn Hicks)
Subject: Re: Pink dollar, red circle slash...
Organization: Not yet, but we're working on it...
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 20:30:22 GMT

In article <Bx8zz7.89B@apollo.hp.com>, krevy_b@apollo.hp.com (Bob Krevy) writes:
>In article <1992Nov5.142734.24841@wam.umd.edu> lovegod@wam.umd.edu (Donald Andrew Agarrat) writes:
>>In article <1992Nov5.101922.16183@lclark.edu>  
>>snodgras@lclark.edu (Bil Snodgrass) writes:
>>} Here is what I would like to see.  When entering into a 
>>} business I would like for the owners to place a sign on the 
>>} door which depicts a Pink Dollar Bill.  This would mean that 
>>} this owner is happy to service the GBLO community!
>>
>>Okay.  What if L.L. Bean has a chain of stores and we NEVER  
>>found out where there money was going?  As long as they would  
>>have that little Pink Dollar Bill, they would still be taking  
>>our money.
>>
>>To put it simply, I spread my money around to different shops.   
>>If anything ugly comes out about them, I wouldn't feel as bad as  
>>plunking my money down into one ...
>>
>>Donald
>
>I've been thinking about this too.  I would like to see a widespread
>program of lavendar hearts (worn on lapel, printed on hardcopy items,
>etc.) that would signify support.  These would be worn by everyone of
>the same frame of mind (straight people as well as gays).  Supportive
>businesses may choose to affix a lavendar heart to their promotional 
>collateral, menus, etc., somehow.  
>
>Just a thought.


I wear a pink triangle.  How many symbols do we need?  A rainbow
flag, a pink triangle, a lambda, a black triangle... what next?

The lambda doesn't do much for me, but people like it, and it's
one of the oldest gay-positive symbols (that I know of.)  The 
flag is neat, I like the philosophy behind the colors.  The 
Triangle works.  It's simple.  It's pink.  


Shawn
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Colorado's Amendment 2
Date: 9 Nov 92 11:49:58 GMT
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison


In article <38286@hoptoad.uucp> laura@hoptoad.UUCP (Laura
Creighton) writes:

>In article <1992Nov5.021230.29953@macc.wisc.edu>
>anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:

>>[...]

>What the hell is this?  

Not about HP, certainly.

>Let's not buy H/P products, built and
>sold by our Gaypeople friends, because they coldn't overcome those
>jerks who want (and have) taken away  their rights.

>These days it is tough enough to be a Gayperson.  Let's now get her or
>him unemployed as a salute to political correctness.  Fun fun fun --
>lets burn each other while the country goes to hell.

It seems to me a strong economic signal can be sent to the
State of Colorado and its populace without doing undue
injury to our friends there.  It seems to me most people
here have been advocating that.  It's possible, perhaps
likely, that an economic boycott would hurt some of our
friends as well as (one hopes, many more) of our enemies.
Did aversion to political correctness keep you from
supporting other anti-apartheid boycotts, too?

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
<>  <>  <> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <>  <>  <>
From: pfieland@citron.sw.stratus.com (Peggy Fieland)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Nationwide lesbigay political organization
Date: 5 Nov 92 18:30:28 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Software Engineering

In article <1992Nov5.000445.4226@reed.edu> nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:
>All this talk of boycotting Colorado is exciting and heartening and
>all that, but is it going to be any good? Boycotts have to be
>organized to be effective.
>
>I said this recently, but I'll say it again. The religious right,
>those folks waging a holy war against us, are very well organized.
>Aside from the basic organizational structure of churches, they've got
>the Christian Coalition, and Pat Robertson and his TV ministry, and
>other "heros" like Lou Sheldon. They're organized well, they're
>coordinated. Their last volley was successful - they won in Colorado.
>
>What do we have? There's NGLTF, which doesn't seem to actually
>initiate much (although I'd be glad to find out I'm wrong). There's
>PFLAG, but they aren't exactly a political group. What else?
>
>All my whining about "we need a nationwide lesbigay rights
>organization" isn't going to amount to much, but I like to think about
>it anyway. What would a queer version of the Christian Coalition mean?
>How would it come about? Isn't the March on Washington the place to
>start? Who would be our leaders?
>                __
>nelson@reed.edu \/   Delicious & Nutritious breakfast cereals shot from guns!


Yes, Yes, Yes!  Let's organize a "Queer Coalition" to defeat the fundies!

I'd love to have an effective way to work against the bigotry and hatred
of the religious right.

And I'm still so upset over this that I can hardly organize my thoughts
enough to write anything at all.

Please, folks, keep posting ideas about how to work to defeat Colorado
proposition 2 and fight for GLBO civil rights.

Peggy
who won't be vacationing in Colorado any time soon...
From: dise@decoy.uoregon.edu (David Casti)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Another reason OR went no, CO went yes...
Date: 8 Nov 92 17:56:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: nntp.1992Nov8.175626.817
Reply-To: dise@oregon.uoregon.edu
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Oregon Network Services

In today's (Sunday, November 8) Oregonian, Craig Berkman (republican part  
chairman in Oregon) talks about strategies to undercut the OCA by forming a  
third party and then asking for recognition from the GOP.  We'll see what  
actually happens, but it could be very interesting.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: gary@colossus.cgd.ucar.edu (Gary Strand)
Subject: Re: Colorado Amendment 2: The First Fatality
Organization: Climate and Global Dynamics Division/NCAR, Boulder, CO
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 01:01:29 GMT

ms> Melinda Shore

ms> What it really boils down to is that I don't care very much whether or not
    you like me, but I will not sit still and let you circumscribe my rights.

  It all depends on how we agree what "rights" there are, doesn't it? I don't
  include housing, employment, medical care, &c as "rights". I do include
  free speech and the freedom of association (and the concomitant freedom of
  dissociation) as rights. Yelling "faggot" at someone shouldn't land me in
  jail, nor should refusing to hire a gay for a job I have.

--
Gary Strand                      Opinions stated herein are mine alone and are
strandwg@ncar.ucar.edu            not representative of NCAR, UCAR, or the NSF
From: barlow@prodigal.psych.rochester.edu (Rebel)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Looking for INFO
Date: 11 Nov 92 18:58:38 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester - Rochester, New York

HI, this year our Gay LEsbians and Bisexuals Association is looking to make an
impact on our rather conservative campus through an OUTreach committee.
Severeal of our members are having difficult dealing with friends as a result
of coming out and we decided that we want to work on educating the university
community. We are hoping to do a series of creative posters to raise awareness
and we are despaerately looking for witty quotes, trivia and current
statistics...unfortunately all the library sources here are pretty old and
there are a lot of good philosophical books but what we need are short to the
point facts or opinions that are eye catching for our posters and artwork. I
know this net is a wealth of information and I was hoping someone could help us
out?


Thanks in advance.
Jen
OUTreach committee
From: Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: RE: Homsexuals rasing children(question)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 20:43:42 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <9NOV92.10193754@enh.nist.gov>

Sim Aberson writes:
>
>What are "children"?

You know.... little ones -- they grow.  Replacements.

Fortunately, Vaal has forbidden these.

;-{)##]

 
() Humans do have an amazing capacity for believing what
() they choose.
()      -- Spock
-----
[> George D. Madison | NBCS: B8f+t+w-e+s+k+a!cv | Just say NO to razors! <]
[> It's a BEAR thing -- you wouldn't understand. <|> furr@cup.portal.com <]
From: wlp@calmasd.Prime.COM (Walt  Peterson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Colorado Cesspool
Date: 5 Nov 92 01:37:21 GMT
Organization: Computervision Corporation, San Diego R&D

In article <1d8n90INN828@crcnis1.unl.edu> cbe@unlinfo.unl.edu (cbe) writes:
>lmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Laurie Mann) writes:
>
>>Congratulations and best wishes to the people in Oregon who worked so hard to  
>>defeat Prop 9.
>
>>Condolences and best wishes to the people in Colorado who worked so hard to
>>defeat Prop 2.  I don't think I'll be visiting Colorado any time soon.
>
>Today I have redeemed all of my shares in the Janus Fund, a prominent 
>Colorado mutual fund.  They were left with no doubt for my reasons for
>withdrawing from their fund.  I have further written to the Aspen Music 
>Festival explaining why I shall not be attending this year nor 
>contributing to their fund.  Further, the purchase of some electronic 
>equipment from Hewlett-Packard will be cancelled.  Their sales 
>representative will be certainly told the reason.  I've always 
>preferred the Tetons anyway.
>


This is probably the most effective means that we have of dealing with
this situation.  Notice that the voters in Arizona yesterday PASSED a
ballot referendum establishing a state Martin Luther King holiday.
The reason?  Simple; because of the previous rejection of the
holiday, some sources estimate that Arizona lost $5 billion to an
effective economic boycott.

We must hit Colorado where it really hurts, in the wallet. Hit them
and hit them hard.  Local and national lesbigay rights organizations
and individuals must begin an immediate total economic boycott of
Colorado.  Since most, if not all, of our rights organizations
supported the boycott of Arizona, they should seek the support of the
various African-American rights organizations in the Colorado embargo.

The reason for the boycott and the condition of its lifting ( repeal
of 2 ) should be made clear.  

Without intending to sound melodramatic, this was an act of war and it
calls for an appropriate retaliatory strike.

I fully intend to check EVERY purchase I make in the future to
determine that I am not knowingly sending one red cent to Colorado.


-- 
Walter L. Peterson                    |                 ______
Internet   : wlp@calmasd.Prime.COM    |       Silence   \    /   Action
CompuServe : 70441,3177               |          =       \  /      =
"Generic Disclaimer"                  |        Death      \/      Life
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: balistik@big-brother.nevada.edu (Shawn Hicks)
Subject: Re: Colorado's Amendment 2
Organization: Not yet, but we're working on it...
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 22:26:55 GMT

In article <mattm-041192131417@mcmelmon.apple.com>, mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon) writes:
>In article <1992Nov4.185406.3267@tc.cornell.edu>,
>shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore) wrote:
>
>> Sorry Andrew, but your company contributes to the Colorado
>> tax base.  I intend to boycott Colorado and all products
>> made in Colorado (to the extent that I know about them),
>> too.
>
>Translation:  "Sorry if it puts you out of a job, but my principles 
>have been offended.  And besides, I don't work for a living, I
>think."


Kinda reminds me of South Africa.



Shawn
From: gandalf@dworkin.ccs.northeastern.edu (Thomas M Farrell)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Thugsy twins to run against each other!
Date: 12 Nov 92 16:58:06 GMT
Organization: College of Computer Science, Northeastern University

In article <1992Nov11.224432.4432@gordian.com> mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas) writes:

     According to today's LA Times, Dannemeyer has publicly stated
   that he will run for DiFi's senatorial seat in two years. Apparently,

Am I crazy or do I remember that on his last day in the Capitol, Dannemeyer
said something to the effect of "I hate it here so I'm going to do as much
damage as possible before I go"? Wouldn't publishing that be a great ad against
him? (Wouldn't one look at his face be a great ad against him for that matter?)
From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: How Many Homosexuals?
Date: 13 Nov 92 21:56:40 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <101135@bu.edu>, kane@buast7.bu.edu (Hot Young Star) writes:
> In article <13085@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
# #The 3.3% figure for male homosexuals and bisexuals used by Masters, 
# #Johnson, & Kolodny looks more and more plausible.
# 
# Try this on for size---a French survey which betrayed underreporting:
# 
# While only 4% of a sample of over 10,000 French men admitted to engaging
# in gay sex at least once, a whopping 30% (NOT KIDDING!) identified passive
# anal intercourse as a sexual activity in which they had participated.

Wow.  Does that mean 26% of French men don't consider getting sodomized
by another man to be "gay sex"?

# The corresponding figures for the women were 2% and 20%, so not all of
# this passive anal intercourse was women fingering men's anuses. There are,
# conservatively, 10% of men who remain "unaccounted".
# 
# Conclusion: people LIE big time about homosexuality.

Other conclusion: there's something badly broken about the sample.

-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
"Foxes prefer rabbits with short claws." -- Nadja Adolf