HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: waynebro@juliet.caltech.edu (Broughton, Wayne Jeremy)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien
Subject: Silamaril in the Sky
Date: 14 Dec 1992 03:03 PST
Organization: California Institute of Technology
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: juliet.caltech.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

I don't know if this is common knowledge, but right around now and at
least for the rest of this month the Silmaril on Earendil's brow is
brilliantly visible.  In the west, not long (maybe an hour) after sunset,
it shines brighter than anything else, our last glimpse of the light
of the Two Trees.  I am writing this from the Los Angeles area, but I
think the Eveningstar is visible for a long way both north and south 
of here.  The other two Silmarils are lost to us, but check out the
one in the Sky as Earendil continues to sail through the heavens.

Wayne. 
**********************************************************************

Wayne J. Broughton                 Take the road less travelled by.  
waynebro@juliet.caltech.edu    

Caltech has no idea what my opinions are;  
they think I'm working right now...
Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien
From: jchokey@leland.Stanford.EDU (James Alexander Chokey)
Subject: Re: Tolkien a Racist?
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 09:24:14 GMT

In article <BzA78A.Duw@comp.vuw.ac.nz> Michael.Norrish@comp.vuw.ac.nz (Michael Norrish) writes:
>>>>>> On Mon, 14 Dec 1992 14:16:40 GMT, carl@class.gsfc.nasa.gov (Carl F. Hostetter) said:
>
>Carl> <Insert favorite Anglo-Saxon epithet here>!!! Tolkien's entire
>Carl> mythology is based on a dichotomy of light and dark, and the
>Carl> gradations in between. Tolkien's races have the same gradation
>Carl> because of this fundamental division; the division does not
>Carl> exist because of Tolkien's view of the races. 
>
>So does this mean that you think Tolkien deliberately made his evil
>races dark-skinned? That's far worse than any fault I was accusing
>him of. 
>
>To my mind, Tolkien's faux pas in our eyes is merely the result of an
>underlying, rather 'genteel' racism, (a previous poster used this
>phrase; thank you) not anything more. You on the other hand, seem to
>be saying that Tolkien had to make his races dark if they were also to
>be evil. Yuck! I certainly wouldn't want to believe *that* of him.
>

	At the risk of putting words into Carl's mouth, I think he's
saying that the whole dualist moral system that Tolkien uses (conflating
the oppositions good vs. evil, light vs. darkness, white vs. black) is
what dictates the "racism" in LOTR.  Tolkien uses the common symbolism of 
white=good and black=evil.  When this symbolism is applied to everything,
including skin color, it necessarily leads to "racist" representations of 
races regardless of what the author's own views on race are.  It was
this symbolic system--  not Tolkien himself-- that dictated that the evil
races in LOTR would be dark-skinned while the good ones would be fair-
skinned.  It's as if the whole thing were beyond Tolkien's control once
he decided that LOTR would be a story about conflict between good and evil.

	(I hope I got that right, Carl.  Please accept my apology and
correct me if I didn't.)

	As I've said before, I think there's something to this, but I
do think there's more to it than that.  Earlier today, I made the claim
that Tolkien's treatment of peoples and races in LOTR was also partly
determined by his having bought into the colonialist and imperialist ideology
of the age that he grew up in, and I won't repeat myself here.  (You might
regard this to be "genteel racism," I suppose, although it does have specific 
qualities and an identifiable history.)  I wonder whether it might also
be possible to think of Tolkien's professional and personal interest in
languages as being a determining factor in his treatment of races and 
peoples in LOTR.  That sounds kind of nutty, I admit, but there might
be something to it as well--  although I can't put my finger on just why.  
Any ideas?

	--  Jim C. <jchokey@leland.stanford.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien
From: dnuttall@UMASSD.EDU
Subject: Re: Musical score
Reply-To: dnuttall@UMASSD.EDU
Organization: UMASS DARTMOUTH, NO. DARTMOUTH, MA.
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 16:41:01 GMT

In article <Bz01L6.657@umassd.edu>, sodonnell@UMASSD.EDU writes:
>In all our talk of fulfilling charactor roles have we yet to discuss
>who would write the music to our dream version of the perfect LOTR
>film. I know I have the album home but don't remember the name of
>the album or the song but.... Any other thoughts????
>
>I have somewhere at home sheet music to lotr songs.
alreday written and ready to be played.
I picked up this book some time ago and I will have
to get back to you when I find it.  Why look for
BIG NAMES to perform songs....you can be the star
and perform them in your own shire.....

Doris/Dragonscale  
> 
Newsgroups: alt.fan.enya
From: jwells@netcom.com (Court Jester)
Subject: LYRICS WANTED!
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 07:18:44 GMT

Please help me; I am trying to find the lyrics to the version
of "Book of Days" that is featured in "Far and Away".

I've checked some lyric servers, but they only have the lyrics
to the original version on the Shepherd Moons album. Anyone
know where I could find the English words?

Thanks for your help! =)

	jason

Newsgroups: alt.fan.enya
From: jwells@netcom.com (Court Jester)
Subject: Re: Lyrics to Afer Venus
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 16:50:03 GMT

jasonp@bungie.prime.com (Jason Pascucci) writes:

>I've sucessfully lost my Tape case-cover, and
>I was wondering if anybody had these lyrics online?

I think if you check out [net1.iastate.edu] you'll find
an Enya directory as part of their lyrics archive. There
should be a file that has all the songs from Shepherd
Moons.

Enjoy,

	Another Jason

-- 
     || (||)  The Court Jester               "Citizens of the planet
     ||       From the House of Xon   \    /  Earth...  We bring you
  () || ()                             \  /   greetings, and we come
     ||       jwells@netcom.netcom.com  \/    in peace."
(||) ||   wells@mhd1.moorhead.msus.edu       "Resist.... or perish!"
Newsgroups: alt.fan.enya
From: jasonp@bungie.prime.com (Jason Pascucci)
Subject: Lyrics to Afer Venus
Organization: Prime Computer R&D
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 05:17:29 GMT

Hi,

I've sucessfully lost my Tape case-cover, and
I was wondering if anybody had these lyrics online?

Thanks!

--
Jason R. Pascucci
jasonp@primerd.prime.com
Newsgroups: alt.fan.enya
From: screid@mta.ca
Subject: enya
Reply-To: screid@mta.ca
Organization: Mount Allison U, Sackville, N.B. Canada 
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 16:42:16 GMT

I love Enya. She make good hot dogs and works hard in music. Enya like
to talk with animals and me if me there in zoo or national parks. There
no better gal than 
Enya! 
Do any of you fans of Enya want me to get tickets to Enya or other mime
theatre or if you want me tell her for you to send them. I said it once and 
I say it adain, Enya is the star for me! 
Newsgroups: alt.fan.enya
From: jasonp@bungee.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Jason Pascucci)
Subject: Re: Lyrics to Afer Venus
Organization: Prime Computer R&D
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 03:25:26 GMT

In article <1992Dec20.165003.4567@netcom.com>, jwells@netcom.com (Court Jester) writes:
|> jasonp@bungie.prime.com (Jason Pascucci) writes:
|> 
|> I think if you check out [net1.iastate.edu] you'll find

Which is actually net-1.iastate.edu, or ftp.iastate.edu (which
is easier to remember. :)

|> 	Another Jason

--
Jason R. Pascucci
jason@primerd.prime.com
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
From: jcm2w@kelvin.seas.Virginia.EDU (John Clarke Mccanless)
Subject: Re: Recordings of Shostakovich
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 23:04:41 GMT

In article <1992Dec13.100709.1035@news.columbia.edu> gk31@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gag-Lae  Kim) writes:
>	I purchased a recording of his fifth symphony conducted by
>Bernard Haitink with Concertgebouw Orchestra.  I had this recording
>for a while now, and I enjoy it very much without having extended my
>interest to other works of Shostakovich. My question must be a FAQ, yet
>your generous answers would be much appreciated.
>	The question is, what other work(s) would you recommend to a
>beginner just getting into Shostakovich? Would I be missing a lot to
>stick with Haitink?  Who is the generally accepted expert on
>Shostakovich? Any small work recommendations?

I think if you like the Fifth, you'll (eventually) like any of the 
15 symphonies - some of the more "eaily likable" are the 1st, 7th,
8th and 9th (7, 8, and 9 make up the "war trilogy", written during
WWII).  Mstislav Rostropovich is coming into his own as a DSCH inter-
preter, and with good reason - he was a close friend of the composer.
He has currently recorded 4, 5, 7, 8, 10 and 15 with the National 
Symphony and another orchestra (I forget).  Haitink has done a great
job, himself.  I believe Bernstein has the best 1st and 7th (paired 
on 2 discs on Deutsche Grammophon) with the Chicago Symphony.

I'll leave recommendations of other works/recordings to more know-
ledgable netlanders.

-- 
John C. McCanless				jcm2w@virginia.edu

"Genius!  Pure, unadulterated, GENIUS!!"  - Wile E. Coyote

Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
From: gk31@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gag-Lae  Kim)
Subject: Recordings of Shostakovich
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 10:07:09 GMT

	I purchased a recording of his fifth symphony conducted by
Bernard Haitink with Concertgebouw Orchestra.  I had this recording
for a while now, and I enjoy it very much without having extended my
interest to other works of Shostakovich. My question must be a FAQ, yet
your generous answers would be much appreciated.
	The question is, what other work(s) would you recommend to a
beginner just getting into Shostakovich? Would I be missing a lot to
stick with Haitink?  Who is the generally accepted expert on
Shostakovich? Any small work recommendations?
	Just found out this newsgroup existed...

	Gag-Lae Kurtis Kim
	gk31@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu
	THE SEEKER OF TRUTH

Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
From: kenneth@davy.uio.no (Kenneth Ruud)
Subject: Re: Recordings of Shostakovich
Organization: University of Oslo, Norway
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 00:33:07 GMT

In article <1992Dec13.100709.1035@news.columbia.edu> gk31@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gag-Lae  Kim) writes:
>
>	   I purchased a recording of his fifth symphony conducted by
>   Bernard Haitink with Concertgebouw Orchestra.  I had this recording
>   for a while now, and I enjoy it very much without having extended my
>   interest to other works of Shostakovich. My question must be a FAQ, yet
>   your generous answers would be much appreciated.
>	   The question is, what other work(s) would you recommend to a
>   beginner just getting into Shostakovich? Would I be missing a lot to
>   stick with Haitink?  Who is the generally accepted expert on
>   Shostakovich? Any small work recommendations?
>	   Just found out this newsgroup existed...
>
I will not attempt to give you a lot of suggestions to what pieces by DSCH you 
ought to listen to. There is simply so much excellent music by him that it is
hard to choose between them. I would also like to hear more about what kind
of music you usually prefer listening to before recommending anything, 
_except_ for one piece: His 8.string quartet is a must for any fan of
DSCH's music. This is his, in my opinion, best string quartet if not one 
of the best of this century.

However, when you ask whether to stick with Haitink or not, it sounds as 
though you are mainly interested in his orchestral works. A very funny 
piece (if you like ironical music pieces) is "The Golden Age". 

I personally find Haitink to be the best interpreter of DSCH's music, and 
_I_ don't think you will miss too much if you stick to him as a conductor.

Anyway, enjoy!!!
>
>	   Gag-Lae Kurtis Kim
>	   gk31@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu
>	   THE SEEKER OF TRUTH
>
Kenneth
--
_______________________________________________________________________________
Kenneth Ruud, doing Chemical Physics at the Department of Chemistry,
University of Oslo, Norway.         E-mail: kenneth@dalton.uio.no

I don't know what the computer language of the year 2000 will look like, but
I know it will be called FORTRAN.
_______________________________________________________________________________
From: raeram@kittyhawk.aero.rmit.OZ.AU (Richard A. Muirden)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
Subject: Re: George Lucas?!
Date: 20 Dec 92 06:19:02 GMT
Organization: RMIT Computer Centre
NNTP-Posting-Host: kittyhawk.aero.rmit.oz.au

jimmosk@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Jim J Moskowitz) writes:

>The classicalmusic mailing list included a recent posting that George
>Lucas was considering filming a Shostakovich biography.

Considering it's allready been done (if you consider Testimony authentic)
then I somewhat doubt this, and yeah Lucas??? Course any film about Dmitri
would be welcome unless it was total rubbish, or will Lucas put in cute
little furry ewok like things to represent the Russian People, and of
course Darth Vader=Stalin, So will Harrison Ford or whoever played that
guy in Jaws play Dmitri... ? :)

>-Jim

>--
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>Jim Moskowitz  jimmosk@eniac.seas.upenn.edu   space within lines not dedicated

-richard

--
Richard Muirden, System Administator, RMIT.Aero. Engineering.. Office: 10.12.26
raeram@kittyhawk.aero.rmit.OZ.AU --- IRC: GA --- 'phone: +61 3 660-3142    LL&P
---------Hopeless Romantic, Fanatic of Shostakovich and "Star Trek" -----------
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
From: kencham@centi.cs.umn.edu (Deepak Kenchammana-Hosekote)
Subject: Re: Recordings of Shostakovich
Organization: University of Minnesota
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 02:57:01 GMT


Anyone heard of any of the films that Dmitri Jr. has made/directed ?
Names will be most welcome !


\deepak
-- 
Kenchammana-Hosekotan toujour !
From: bobs@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Bob Sutton)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
Subject: Re: Recordings of Shostakovich
Date: 14 Dec 1992 00:25:08 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization
NNTP-Posting-Host: hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu

In article <1992Dec13.100709.1035@news.columbia.edu> gk31@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gag-Lae  Kim) writes:
>	I purchased a recording of his fifth symphony conducted by
>Bernard Haitink with Concertgebouw Orchestra.  I had this recording
>for a while now, and I enjoy it very much without having extended my
>interest to other works of Shostakovich. My question must be a FAQ, yet
>your generous answers would be much appreciated.
>	The question is, what other work(s) would you recommend to a
>beginner just getting into Shostakovich? Would I be missing a lot to
>stick with Haitink?  Who is the generally accepted expert on
>Shostakovich? Any small work recommendations?

The most approachable symphonies of DS are 1,5,6,7,8,10,11,12.  He wrote 15
symphonies.  12 is rather boring but it's enjoyable.  7 is too long but 
there's some good stuff in there.  8 is very good except for a bad patch
in the first movement which you will notice immediately.  10 is his best
symphony by concensus of critics.

>
>	Gag-Lae Kurtis Kim
>	gk31@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu

If memory serves, DS's grandson, who we refer to as Dmitri, Jr., was a 
film student at Columbia.  Following in grandfather's footsteps perhaps?
Grandfather wrote movie soundtracks, grandson makes movies?

-- 
Bob Sutton                        Love, most bitterly and fiercely oppresses
bobs@gnu.ai.mit.edu		  those who fight it than those who offer
al876@cleveland.freenet.edu       their servitude.    -- Ovid, "Amores". 
rsutton@eis.calstate.edu
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
From: parson_r@cubldr.colorado.edu (Robert Parson)
Subject: Listening to the 11th Symphony
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 19:18:51 GMT

 Of DS's purely instrumental symphonies, the 11th has the most explicit
 program. No doubt we would still be thrilled by it if he had destroyed 
 all reference to the program after finishing (as many composers have done),
 but that is not how it was intended.
 To DS and his contemporaries, the year 1905 was a distant but vivid memory
 (I remember reading in _Testimony_ something about his watchin Tsarist 
 soldiers shooting children in trees; I forget the details). For us today
 (at least for the non-Russians among us) it is more remote - we can read
 about the massacre in the palace square, and imagine the bullets flying and 
 the cavalry sabers swinging in the terrifying climax of the second movement,
 but it's not the same as having heard about it at the time or being brought
 up with stories about it. 
    While listening to this piece last night, however, I realized that we
 all saw a similar incident just a few years ago - the massacre in Tiananmen
 Square. Try recalling the tanks rolling in before dawn on 4th June 1989 - 
 it works.

 Robert
From: s892024@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU (Richard A. Muirden [GA])
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
Subject: Re: Recordings of Shostakovich
Date: 14 Dec 1992 09:25:18 GMT
Organization: RMIT Computer Centre
NNTP-Posting-Host: minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au

bobs@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Bob Sutton) writes:

>In article <1992Dec13.100709.1035@news.columbia.edu> gk31@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gag-Lae  Kim) writes:
>>	I purchased a recording of his fifth symphony conducted by
>>Bernard Haitink with Concertgebouw Orchestra.  I had this recording
>>for a while now, and I enjoy it very much without having extended my
>>interest to other works of Shostakovich. My question must be a FAQ, yet
>>your generous answers would be much appreciated.
>>	The question is, what other work(s) would you recommend to a
>>beginner just getting into Shostakovich? Would I be missing a lot to
>>stick with Haitink?  Who is the generally accepted expert on
>>Shostakovich? Any small work recommendations?

>The most approachable symphonies of DS are 1,5,6,7,8,10,11,12.  He wrote 15
>symphonies.  12 is rather boring but it's enjoyable.  7 is too long but 
>there's some good stuff in there.  8 is very good except for a bad patch
>in the first movement which you will notice immediately.  10 is his best
>symphony by concensus of critics.

I am not going to be pulled into a Jarvi debate here ;-)


>>
>>	Gag-Lae Kurtis Kim
>>	gk31@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu

>If memory serves, DS's grandson, who we refer to as Dmitri, Jr., was a 
>film student at Columbia.  Following in grandfather's footsteps perhaps?
>Grandfather wrote movie soundtracks, grandson makes movies?

Now all we need is someone to give Dmitri, Jr, an account and well..
I mean can you see it? dschj18@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu posting to
alt.fan.shostakovich... it *has* merit ;-)

as for his grandfather's footsteps... Well Meyerhold might groan
but at least he's in line with the dream. I guess this means he's
given up the piano, at least *very* serious piano...

-richard

>-- 
>Bob Sutton                        Love, most bitterly and fiercely oppresses
>bobs@gnu.ai.mit.edu		  those who fight it than those who offer
>al876@cleveland.freenet.edu       their servitude.    -- Ovid, "Amores". 
>rsutton@eis.calstate.edu
-- 
Richard Muirden, System Administator, RMIT.Aero. Engineering.. Office: 10.12.26
raeram@kittyhawk.aero.rmit.OZ.AU, s892024@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU 'phone: 660-3142
---------Hopeless Romantic, Fanatic of Shostakovich and "Star Trek" ------------
From: bobs@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Bob Sutton)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
Subject: DS's Festive Overture
Date: 15 Dec 92 01:15:12 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization
NNTP-Posting-Host: hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu

There is this CD which was available through my record club which contained
the band arrangement of DS's "Festive Overture".  I ordered it and it arrived
in the mail today.  It's terrific.  Of course I already knew this because
I had played this piece in the university band (similar arrangement too from 
the sound of it) and I have always liked the "Festive Overture".  It's worth
getting just for the overture; but there is some other great stuff in the
band genre on this CD.

Recording information
---------------------
"Live in Osaka"
Eastman Wind Ensemble
Donald Hunsberger, conductor
Sony Classical, SK 47198
DDD

Selections:

J.S. Bach; Toccata & Fugue in D minor
Gustav Holst; First Suite in E-flat for Military Band
Joseph Schwantner; ...and the mountains rising nowhere
  (for amplified piano, Winds, Brass and Percussion)  (It's a blast!)
Bach; Jesu, Joy of Man's Desiring
Percy Grainger; Lincolnshire Posy
Charles Ives; "Country Band" March
(If I recall, Ives wrote something called "Three Pieces from New England"
or something of that nature.  This is an arrangement of one of them.)
Dmitri Schostakovich; Festive Overture (terrific!)
Grainger; The Lads of Wamphray March
Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov; Flight of the Bumblebee (at warp speed)
Michio Mamiya; Glory of Catalonia
John Phillip Sousa; The Stars and Stripes forever!

-- 
Bob Sutton                        Love, most bitterly and fiercely oppresses
bobs@gnu.ai.mit.edu		  those who fight it than those who offer
al876@cleveland.freenet.edu       their servitude.    -- Ovid, "Amores". 
rsutton@eis.calstate.edu
From: huston@access.digex.com (Herb Huston)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
Subject: Re: DS's Festive Overture
Date: 17 Dec 1992 11:58:57 GMT
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: access.digex.com

In article <1gjbj0INN9i6@life.ai.mit.edu> bobs@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Bob Sutton) writes:
}Charles Ives; "Country Band" March
}(If I recall, Ives wrote something called "Three Pieces from New England"
}or something of that nature.  This is an arrangement of one of them.)

Not quite.  _Country Band_ was composed in 1903 while "Putnam's Camp" from
_Three Places In New England_ was composed in 1912.  The latter is a dove-
tailing of _Country Band_ with _Overture "1776"_ (Ives at one time considered
doing an opera set during the Revolutionary War; I think it was to be about
Major John Andre).

The three places are the St. Gaudens relief in Boston Common (anyone see a
movie called _Glory_?), General Israel Putnam's Camp (now a state park in
Connecticut), and the Houstanoic (a river) at Stockbridge (a town in Massa-
chusetts known to Arlo Guthrie's fans).

As far as I know, Cousin Charlie (sixth cousin, twice removed) never ex-
pressed an opinion on the music of Shostakovich.

-- Herb Huston
-- huston@access.digex.com
From: conquet@irit.irit.fr (Eric CONQUET)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
Subject: Looking for a biography of DSH
Date: 15 Dec 92 11:37:19 GMT
Organization: IRIT-UPS, Toulouse France

Hello out there,

I am really a fan of Shosta music and I am trying desperately to find a 
book on this genius.
I know that there is a biography entitled "testimony" but it is impossible
to find it in France.
I am looking for any book about DSH (biographies, letters..). I would prefer
a book in French since it is my mother tongue but English books will be 
welcome (Russian books, if some exist, will be also welcomed).
Please answer by e-mail, if I get some interesting responses I will post
a summary.

Eric CONQUET
IRIT
Toulouse - France
e-mail: conquet@irit.fr

I can be reached also at the following e-mail address:
conquet@SOLEIL.matra-espace.fr