From: joseph@joebloe.maple-shade.nj.us (Joseph Nathan Hall)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.programmer
Subject: Re: Amateur Programming? [Re: Is IM going to be repackaged?]
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 92 22:14:17 EDT
Organization: 5 Sigma Software
Reply-To: joseph@joebloe.maple-shade.nj.us
X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.5v5


In article <Bw0IsF.FHn@world.std.com> (comp.sys.mac.programmer), siegel@world.std.com (Rich Siegel) writes:
) Not hardly. The compiler alone in THINK C 5.0 represents about three
) man-years of solid 50+ hour a week work by three talented and informed
) individuals with years of combined compiler design and implementation
) experience. An industrial strength, professionally finished development
) environment is not the sort of thing you can knock off on nights and 
) weekends.

I don't really agree with your statement here.  On the other hand, I have 
heard good things about Mike Kahl from a source who "knew him when."

It's pretty easy to find 50 hours a week of nights and weekends if
you are sufficiently motivated and antisocial.  I've done it before.
Enjoyed it, too.

) >The success of large commercial developers is certainly not generally
) >due to code quality, nor due to the cleverness of designers or managers.
) >Nor is it due to the working environment or the quality of personnel.
) 
) So what -is- it due to? You never finished this thought...

I suppose that these days it is due mostly to good marketing and
acceptable engineering.  I wish it were also due to the brilliance
of the people doing the actual design and coding.  

I don't want to impugn Mike Kahl and the other original authors of 
THINK C, though.  I only wish that there had been a followthrough on that
product.  As I have said occasionally before in this group, I have
gone from being an enthusiastic fan of THINK C to being disheartened
and disgusted at its snail-like evolution.  Borland, where are you???

) The continued success of THINK C is due to the fact that the designers
) and implementors listened to the people who were going to use it. That's
) the key to success in any software venture: listen to your customers,
) and when they ask for something, don't take it at face value - figure
) out -why- they asked for it, and what they really need. Then fill that
) need, and people will buy the product.

Well, in the Mac world, you have your choice of two evils.  IMHO.
Neither is what I really want.  What *I* want is a fast, full-featured,
state-of-the-art compiler.  For now I use THINK C most of the time,
because I figure that if I'm going to use a compiler I don't particularly
like I might as well get it over with quick.

) >I was disheartened to find myself tripping over egos, ...
) 
) Sounds like you picked the wrong place to shop for a job. It's been my
) experience that if you look, you'll somewhere find a group of people
) that in an overall sense share your world view and way of thinking
) about customers and products. If you do, it's an excellent fit, and
) the annoying little personality quirks just disappear.

Well, I have found such a group of folks.  Would you believe the other
day I actually heard a project manager say, "Well, look, if it still
looks like shit, don't send it out.  Even if it does take another
day."  That was after I heard, "Make sure the customer knows what
the remaining problems are."  Incredible.

All I want to do is to write clean, reliable software and persuade
the folks around me to do the same.  Lively discussions are terrific.  
Weird personal habits are de rigeur.  The egos and thin skins, though, I
can do without.

uunet!joebloe!joseph   (609) 273-8200 day   joseph%joebloe@uunet.uu.net
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