Newsgroups: talk.rape
Subject: Re: Videotaping rapes
From: garvin+@cs.cmu.edu (Susan Garvin)
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 04:23:57 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

In article <1992Sep26.015336.18924@cs.yale.edu> rescorla@rtnmr.chem.yale.edu (Eric Rescorla) writes:
#In article <Bv5r7z.1o4.2@cs.cmu.edu> garvin+@cs.cmu.edu (Susan Garvin) writes:
##[alt.folklore.urban removed from newsgroups]
#Alt.folklore.urban returned to the newsgroup line. This is certainly
#quite relevant to uls.

[alt.folklore.urban removed from newsgroups - I don't post to
groups that I don't read]

##little snuff film speech.  Do you imagine that I am
##an "anti-porn crusader"?

#No, I was referring to Dworkin and McKinnon, actually.

I'm glad that you refrained from mentioning their names,
then.

##Do you believe that no one has ever filmed a murder?

#No, people clearly have.
#
#I also suspect that people have filmed rapes. That is somewhat
#different from committing a rape so that you can film it.

Indeed it is.  Do you think that people involved in the crime
have made videotapes?  

##Is this your new method of determining whether or not something
##exists - if anyone in two newsgroups owns it?

#Well, if someone here DID own it, then it would certainly be
#evidence that it exists wouldn't it? If you can't produce one
#or tell me specifically where I can find one, then your claim
#that they exist becomes rather tenuous.

People rarely admit to crimes upon request.  I don't find that
odd at all.  

I don't expect you to believe that these films exist simply
because I say so.  On the other hand, I don't believe that
they don't simply because you say so.  (In other words, there's
not much point to this, is there?)


#There is quite a bit of evidence that such films exist.
#For instance, I can give you a reference to a court case
#in which a man was prosecuted for having them. NY v. Ferber.
#It should be in any decent Con. Law. book, since it's quite
#important. I know its in O'Brien's Civil Rights and Civil
#Liberties. Can you produce any similar references for
#these films?

You miss the point - you asked for evidence to prove
your assertion that no such films exist.  I was trying to
make the point I spelled out above.

##The original article in this thread mentioned two cases 
##involving such films.  It should be relatively easy to
##check them out.

#The reference wasn't specific enough to check out. Give me a real
#case cite and I WILL check it out. 

Obviously you and I have different definitions for "relatively
easy" when it applies to research.  I'll spend a bit of
time and see if the cases have been tried.  Let me
know if you want me to e-mail you or post when I find it.
(It will take me a week at the least.)

##many of us find disgusting, as I said.  I'm not
##particularly interested in trying to convince anyone
##that this is true - I don't want to shatter anyone's
##carefully constructed illusions.

#This doesn't have anything to do with illusions. It certainly
#is possible that such films exist. I wouldn't be particularly
#disturbed to hear it, even. However, this looks too much like
#the snuff film urban legend for me to take it seriously without
#some supporting evidence. I note you have not provided any.

You're right, Eric, I haven't.  I don't have the ability
to do research instantaneously.  I first saw the article
this afternoon, you know.  As I said, I'll check it out.
(I just hope that I don't have to sit through an anti-porn
lecture to get started - there's a MARAP lecture at Pitt
next week.  I'd prefer to miss it.)

Susan


Newsgroups: talk.rape