From: bennett@adobe.com (Bennett Leeds)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house,ba.mountain-folk
Subject: Chipper/Shreader Summary
Date: 14 Oct 92 23:00:16 GMT
Reply-To: bennett@adobe.com
Distribution: na
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated


As promised, here are the replies I received. Since it's been awhile since my  
original request, I've also tacked on the followups. I got more requests to 
post a summary than I got responses, so I guess not too many people actually 
own one of these beasties.

My neighbor just bought a Sears after reading the review in Consumer's Reports. 
She used it once, then had some gardeners come in a clear out about 2 acres of 
brush. She doesn't want to use her Sears unit on the stuff, she's scared the 
unit won't handle it. Stuck me as a waste of money, but she claims she'll use 
it for her yearly incremental brush clearing (this big clearing was the first 
done since she moved in years ago). I haven't yet taken a look at it.

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I've been happy with my Bolens MC2500. My property in Ben Lomond sounds
similiar to yours, although I don't have the variety of trees that you
mention.  I purchased it to generate mulch for my sandy soil.  I've used
it on oak branches and leaves, pine branches and needles, acacia and
oleander.  
  It's a 5HP model.  I rented a 8HP chipper before I purchased this one.
The Bolens actually works better.  It's main advantages are a straight
feed path and output chute.  This keeps jams to a minimum.  Also, it is
fairly mobile, so I can move it around to where the work needs to be
done instead of moving the branches to it.  I've chipped up to about 2"
thick branches, anything larger goes into the stove. The feeder will
pull the branches in, so you do not have to force them through by hand.
The only times that I've had the clutch slip, which keeps the motor
from stalling, was with heavy wet leaves.  The problem was with the 
fine grate that I was using to produce the mulch.  Using a larger
grate removed the problem.
  I found the Bolens to be a better buy then the Troy-bilt.  When I
purchased the unit, in Soquel, the dealer carried both brands.  He
told me that Bolens makes the Troy-bilt units.

----------------------------------------------

	I would recommend that you visit Webb's Farm Supplies on Old
San Jose Soquel Rd. It's about half way between Summit Rd. and Hwy. 1
on the South side of the road. They sell serious small power equipment
such as diesel (Italian) rototillers large chain saws climbing gear log
splitters and chipper shreaders. They have been in buisness in that
location forever and stock lots of parts. 

------------------------------------------------------------

2 cents for what its worth --

I had a 5hp model that had ample power - that wasn't the problem.

Real problem is ability to deal with "stringy" vegetation - about
half of what I have to deal with is sh*t like wild blackberry cut
out of the creek (during summer it grows so much it closes off
the creek and then can cause a dam to form in rainy season)

I can't put it "in the top" where normal brush goes, cause it just
whirls round-and-round forever.

But if I put it thru the side (intended for chipping small branches)
then I'm OK unless I stuff too much in at a time, (it gets tedious)
and its damn dangerous.

I don't know of any good solution  for this kind of stuff - but
I find 5 hp sufficient for (green) wood up to maybe 3 inches diameter max
- anything over that is chain saw and dry out for the fireplace

I got rid of it eventualy, now that our town has a 5 days a week
drop off point for vegetation - stick it in the pickup and drop it off -
much less vexing

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I have the Sears 5hp chipper. I have only 1 acre and I find this unit
does NOT meet my needs, has a real tough time on larger branches 2" up,
Also I'd prefer a power feed, I know it is more dangerous, but so is
working many hours chipping. Thes machines take lot's of work (time)
and are very noisy.

The Sears is not very messy, so if thats important???

My thoughts only.

----------------------------------------------------------

I've been using a top-of-the-line Troy Tomahawk 8hp Briggs for several years
and am quite satisfied. We have 7 acres, 3 of which we maintain, and have
gazillions of trees, shrubs. I would estimate we generate at least a ton of
stuff every year that we put through the machine. Forget about leaves...takes
too long to get them down the shute. With the bigger machines, you can chip
branches up to 3 in. in diameter. But, you've got to have the HP to do that.
So, my advice is: get the biggest machine you can afford, forget leaves, and
go to it. Kemp is good, I know. Troy is good, from personal experience, and 
there are a few others out there. Make sure the engine is a good I/C Briggs
or Kawasaki, or the like. And plan on working hard. If I do 3-4 hours of
chipping/shredding in one day, I'm really tired. It is surprisingly hard work.
Organic Gardening did a sensible review of these beasties a while back. If you
need more info, I could probably find that issue.

--------------------------------------------------------------

In this case Consumer Reports was right on the mark.
The 5hp Sears and MTD are essentially the same unit,
and they're great.  Don't pay more than $400, and
don't get the version with the plastic hopper.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

I have an 8hp Troy (Super Tomahawk (sp?))
It does everything I could want
(I have about 4 acres I'm trying to maintain)
noisy, heavy, works extreeeeemly well, great customer service

I have/use a combination hard-hat/face-guard/ear protector thing, 
you should too, always wear gloves, have fun.

--------------------------------------------------


I saw your request on misc.consumers.house (I usually look forward to and  
religously read your postings on rec.woodworking), and thought I would respond.  
I seemed to have lost you message, but recall that the Troy-Bilts that you were  
referring to were the chipper-vacs. The Troy-Bilts that other posts were  
referring to were the chipper-shredders. I purchased an 8hp Super Tomahawk this  
spring and have been quite pleased with it. I think that it is a very well  
constructed machine and have been quite happy. Specifically:

	- It is made from heavy guage metal - this does make it heavy and a bit
	  difficult to move around as other posters have mentioned.

	- I think that the 8hp is the way to go (purely gut feeling - I also 
	   want a 3hp Unisaw rather than my 1.5 hp Crapsman)

	- The only materials I have problems with are wet leaves - I suspect 
	   that this can be problematic on any machine - One nice feature
	   of the Trot-Bilt is that the screens are easily removed and cleaned
	   and you can use different screens based on you materials and desired
	   outcome (e.g., compost, mulch...)

I must admit that in the end, I was somewhat sentimentally swayed by the fact  
that the machines are made in Troy, NY (home of my alma matta, RPI), but also,  
I was able to look at the machine for my self (at Sears where they are marked  
up an additional $200 over the factory prices)

If you decide to buy a Troy-Bilt note that: 1) The machines are always on Sale  
from Troy-Bilt even though there literature (which is voluminous) has sale  
deadlines, and 2) I think I have a $50 off coupon that I could send you if you  
decided to purchase one.

---------------------------------------------------------

In article <1992Sep21.152232.9695@adobe.com> bennett@adobe.com writes:
>I'm thinking of buying a gasoline powered chipper/shreader. My property
>is 3.5 rual acres of natural landscaping with over 200 trees of various 
>species, including redwoods, pines, oaks, walnuts, and maples. 
>flowers).

I rented a 8 HP Troy-Bilt Tomahawk on the weekend to do my yard (100x100 ft.
surrounded by overgrown bushes and trees).

>Much of my cleanup will involve chipping of dead branches, so 

Me too.

>chipping performance is important. I find it interesting that units
>are sold by yard size as if a 1/2 plot couldn't produce branches as 
>big and tough to chip as 50 acres plots. Are 5 HP machines enough, or
>are the 8 HP jobs worth the extra bucks?

We spent about 20 hours on the weekend doing our yard.  I couldn't imagine
trying to use a less powerful machine.  I was very impressed by the 8 HP's
power.  I only stalled it four or five times and all of those times was 
because I tried to put in far more than was wise.

BTW, it could handle branches up to 3" in diameter.  No problem.

Two negatives:  It was extremely noisy and heavy.  Of course, I don't have
anything to compare it against.

In summary, I feel that I would have found a less powerful machine fairly
frustrating for my yard.  I definitely wouldn't recommend anything less 
than 8 HP for your property.

---------------------------------------------------

I just bought the largest Toro electric blower/vacuum. So far it seems to
do a fine job on leaves. It also picks up small twigs, plane shavings, and
so on. So far, rocks seem to be too heavy for it to suck up. The smallest
ones which have gotten in my way are about twice the size of pea gravel.
This shreds leaves up as it bags. It would have obvious disadvantages for
a 3.5 acre spread - the extension cords alone would cost a fortune. I
intend to use mine to blow leaves into piles for feeding into my shredder.

>Much of my cleanup will involve chipping of dead branches, so 
>chipping performance is important. I find it interesting that units
>are sold by yard size as if a 1/2 plot couldn't produce branches as 
>big and tough to chip as 50 acres plots. Are 5 HP machines enough, or
>are the 8 HP jobs worth the extra bucks?

Mine is an old 5hp unit (sorry but I can't remember the manufacturer). It
tackles most branches up to two inches diameter, but species is important.
Half inch branches from my chinese elms are too tough for it to handle.
My mother, who used to have my 5hp unit, now has an 8hp (I believe it's
a Troy). She says that it takes her about 1/3 the time to shred her leaves.
Based on this, I'd say the extra bucks are worth it.

One thing to look for. My unit has four wheels. Mama's unit has only two,
and they are relatively small ones. Moving hers around the yard is nearly
impossible (as you say, the manufacturers assume flat, manicured yards).
I'd eliminate two wheeled models from further consideration. If you have
a lawn tractor, you might want to look for one which can be towed.

Another thing. My shredder has a separate port and set of cutters for
chopping branches than for leaves. My experience has been that the branch
cutting blades require fairly frequent sharpening. Make sure that they
can be easily removed on the units you consider buying.

------------------------------------------------------------


>>Much of my cleanup will involve chipping of dead branches, so 
>>chipping performance is important. I find it interesting that units
>>are sold by yard size as if a 1/2 plot couldn't produce branches as 
>>big and tough to chip as 50 acres plots. Are 5 HP machines enough, or
>>are the 8 HP jobs worth the extra bucks?

Aside from the size of branch you can chip (anything bigger than about 1.5
inches winds up in my fireplace anyway), the real difference between HP
models is speed.  Particularly when hard woods are involved.

>Mine is an old 5hp unit (sorry but I can't remember the manufacturer). It
>tackles most branches up to two inches diameter, but species is important.
>Half inch branches from my chinese elms are too tough for it to handle.
>My mother, who used to have my 5hp unit, now has an 8hp (I believe it's
>a Troy). She says that it takes her about 1/3 the time to shred her leaves.
>Based on this, I'd say the extra bucks are worth it.

Yes, if your time is worth money, this is a good way to save time.

>One thing to look for. My unit has four wheels. Mama's unit has only two,
>and they are relatively small ones. Moving hers around the yard is nearly
>impossible (as you say, the manufacturers assume flat, manicured yards).
>I'd eliminate two wheeled models from further consideration. If you have
>a lawn tractor, you might want to look for one which can be towed.

Perhaps your machine is a Kemp?  Its the only one I know of with 4 wheels.  The
thing about wheels is that you will have to find a place to store that wide 
wheelbase that is so nice when you are chipping.  I think that storage space
is one of the considerations that the Troy is built for.

My experience has been with several rented brands - Troy and other nameless
ones.  The main difference I noted was that the Troy held together while the
lesser known brands did not, as they were built from thinner guage metal. The
only problem I had with the Troy is that the shreading grate would bend over
time because it is supported only at the ends.  I think this has been corrected
in later models.  I have seen a Kemp, but never used one.  They are *really*
heavy and look like they would hold together for many years - also costs big $.
I have seen lots of machines in the $300-500 range in Sears lately, but many
have extremely small feed chutes and some even have sharp 90 degree turns at
the bottom.  This would be very inconvienient for branches as they would need
to be chopped into absurdly small pieces before shreading.

The 8hp Troys typically rent for $50 a day around here, so you really can
recoup your expenses from purchase, as they say in the ads.  After looking
at all the offerings, I decided to build one.  Anyone interested can Email
me for details.

-------------------------------------------------------------



 I bought a Kemp Rancher 8 HP last year. So far, we have used it to clean up a
 160ft by 250ft HEAVILY wooded area. I have put small trees (trunk) into it
 about 3" in diameter and about 10 ft long, with no problem. I like to use it  
in
 the fall when all the leaves are off the trees (here in Mass). When I bought  
it
 I wasn't sure about which engine to get, the 5 HP or the 8 HP. I would 
 definitely get the 8 HP now that I have one. Also, other types like Troy  
Built,
 Sears, and such have only 2 wheels on them. This is bad since you have to 
 pull this heavy 8 HP machine around. Try doing it on a less than smooth  
surface.
 My kemp has four wheels and we use a small Sears tractor to tow it around.
 Easy. As far as getting electic start, I'm glad I didn't. My machine starts in
 1 or 2 pulls. When I bought it I got a cover for it (like $70 or $80). It fits
 the machine well, and I figured $70 is worth covering a $2000 machine, since
 I don't have a shelter for it. We have put probably between 50 and 100 hours  
on
 it, nothing has failed on it, and all we have done is changed the oil and kept  
it
 clean. Another plus is the large piles of wood chips I get which can be  
useful.
 I would recommend the Kemp 8 HP with no-electic start. It costs more than  
others,
 but it is well build, seems to be quite reliable, and will eat everything you 
 feed it (within reason of course).

-------------------------------------------------

The Tory-Bilt that I rented only had two wheels.  I found this to be quite an
inconvenience as it's a heavy bugger.  If it got tilted just a bit too much
in moving, it took one to two minutes of attempts to get it started again.

----------------------------------------------------

>Mike, I'm interested in a chipper/shredder. I have fourteen
>large trees that I trim each winter. What type of cost
>justification did you go through in deciding to buy. Will
>it ever pay for itself?
>
>Thanks, Calvin

Well, for me, I planned on doing some heavy-duty chipping. I
have about 5 acres of heavily wooded land. I wanted a strong,
reliable machine that could go the distance. I burn a lot of
wood for heat in the winter, so I figured over a long period
of time 5 or 10 years, it would be worth it. I feel the
higher priced machine is worth it. If you plan on just chipping
some loose branches, leaves, and using it once in a while, the
less expensive machines are probably more cost effective.
It depends on what you plan to do with it, and how much you are
going to use it. At one time, we cut down about 30 to 40 trees
in two days. The area looked like a tornado hit. Trees all over
the place. A mess. But, it is all cleaned up now, it looks great,
and we used our Kemp chipper to do it. I tried burning the stuff,
but burning it dangerous, environmentally negative, you smell like
a burnt piece of wood when your done, I think I can chip more
and faster than burning, and I get to use the wood chips after for
whatever I what. I had some neighbors come over and talk to me
about it, but when I told them is was $2000, they said no way.
It seems its one of those items that people would love to have, but
don't want to spend the $$ on.

-----------------------------------------------------


> >Mike, I'm interested in a chipper/shredder. I have fourteen
> >large trees that I trim each winter. What type of cost
> >justification did you go through in deciding to buy. Will
> >it ever pay for itself?
> 
> Well, for me, I planned on doing some heavy-duty chipping. I
> have about 5 acres of heavily wooded land. I wanted a strong,
> reliable machine that could go the distance. I burn a lot of

In your case, you definantly need a heavy-duty machine, like the Kemp
you mentioned, or perhaps a Super-Tomahawk (I think that's what Troy-Bilt
calls their biggest one). And while they are heavy and a little awkward
to move, you shouldn't be out with one of those by yourself anyway.

I've used a 5HP Tomahawk Jr. and a 5HP MTD (the one with the drop-
chute for leaves). I concluded early on that it's best to feed 
everything possible through the chipper hopper; I cram in privet
trimmings, blackbery canes, cornstalks, even weeds, as well as
branches. If you're dealing with leaves for the most part, the
MTD wins hands down. Drop the chute, and sweep the leaves in.
Both do an acceptable (to me) job of chipping, unless you have 
2" oak or similar hardwood limbs to deal with.

> whatever I what. I had some neighbors come over and talk to me
> about it, but when I told them is was $2000, they said no way.
> It seems its one of those items that people would love to have, but
> don't want to spend the $$ on.

Of course. They're waiting until *you* buy one, so they can borrow
it....

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Some other Sears stuff may be junk but this one has worked for me.

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Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house