HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ap290@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ruth M. Hanschka)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Subject: Re: Dogma's Iron Cage
Date: 11 Nov 1992 05:22:25 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: ap290@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ruth M. Hanschka)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, AHMED@DAYTON.BITNET () says:

>Ruth,
>
>No, I don't think you are some right wing fundamentalist nut.... though,
>I do not agree with you.....
Fine by me - no one else seems to either.  Forgive the delay on this, I've
been a bit distracted by a rather nasty and thankfully over flamewar lately.

>I did say that sometimes attempts to get into heaven keep us from making
>a heaven on earth and to enjoy life.....
That's certainly true enough for some people.  

>I wonder if your list of "foolish" things is based on religion...or what..
>You seem to be looking at things in a black or white mode....
And a few gazillion shades of grey - I just pulled out a few standard
examples and played with those.  It was based more on the sitcom dictum,
"Don't be stupid" than religion, though.  These days, stupidity can be
lethal....

>Its not monagamous relationships or AIDS...I know lots of people who have
>sex with more than one person who are perfectly happy and safe... there is no
>reason to assume that sex with one person is safe and sex with two is not...
The odds do change though, and you'd better trust both partners a whole lot.
They'd better trust you too.....

>relationship and sex do not have to go together always...for those who can
>handle it (and believe me there are those), their spouse meets a lot of
>needs and their ONE other lover/mistress meets the sex need more effectively
>and everyone is aware of the existence of the other....
I've heard of relationships like that, but only once where it actually worked
well.  

>Relationships should be based upon love not sex (and words like monogamous
>do not belong).  If one loves someone, they would want that person to be
>happy without dictating what they should or should not do..
I could seriously dispute this one, but won't.  I'm argued-out at the moment.

>Regarding alcohol excess...excess of anything is foolish...though I think
>excess of alcohol and/or cigarettes are a lot more dangerous than the
>moderate use of marijuana or cocaine or sex.... though I don't have much
>use for any intoxicating substance....
>
To be frank, Zahir, neither do I.  Cocaine can be a *very* dangerous substance
though; it's addictive as all get-out.  Sex can be too, if not handled
properly; I've seen it explode in friends' faces more than once.  

>
-- 
		###	Ruth Hanschka, the Nethead    ###
			- ap290@cleveland.freenet.edu
	      Where anything can happen, and it usually does
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 11:17:03 MEZ
From:         Uwe Hauck <UWEHAUCK@DOSUNI1.RZ.UNI-OSNABRUECK.DE>
Subject:      More news on right wing violence

Just to keep all of you up to date about the situation in Germany.
Yesterday there was a lot of discussion about what to do in order to
avoid more right wing violence against immigrants.
One point, mentioned by a politician (sorry, I missed his name.)
was, that maybe there should be the possibility for companies to
lay off workers that are supporting right wing and neonazi opinions.
Another newsmagazine mentioned yesterday, that maybe the police
should be better equipped with plastic bullets capable of hitting
you like a price boxer (that's how the magazine described it.)
There are a lot of features in the TV-Stations against right
wing violence lately and there will be at least one more very big
demo against right wing violence on November the 14th in Bonn.
So let us hope that this demo will be peaceful.

One thing I hope. All of you that are not from Germany, please
don't think that all the germans are becoming nazis again.
There are problems in this world nowadays that should be
a problem to think about for all of us.
Let us live together not against each other.
Uwe
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 13:35:04 MEZ
From:         Heinrich Heine <HRZ150@VM.HRZ.UNI-ESSEN.DE>
Subject:      right wing

The right wing is small but very active and efective with a high
potential on aggression and will not give up soon, but there is
NO  SURENDER .
All social relevant groups support the movement against the right
wing. There are many social multiplicators like actors, poets,
musicians scientists showpeople in this movement, it is also a mass
movement so it starts slowly but growth bigger every day.
There was not only a demonstration in Berlin but also in many
small towns. I was on a demo in the little village I live in
and on a demo in the countytown. The spectrum was from families
with children to old people whitch never had been on a demo befor
but know what fascism is.
I am a bit sade, 350 000 peacefull people and .... the eggs thrown
on the president by 300 autonomous run through the world.


    Heinrich
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Date:         Wed, 4 Nov 1992 12:35:58 EST
From:         Mary Ellen Ugactz-Fernandez <ugactz@CUNIXF.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Dogma's Iron Cage

Noone said that nothing came from nothing.... it came from something
obviously... we CAN'T eaxplain everything yet thru science...science is
so NEW compared to the millions of years the earth has been around..and
if religion offers you a comfortable way to explain the beginning of
the eart, then by all means use it... But because we can't yet explain
everything using science, this doesn't mean one MUST turn to religion
because of the unexplainable...

We like to think our brains our so sophisticated but all brains are ,
in their makeup... our brains are capable of more but what
exactly...can we measure it yet? we're trying...sure we have more
emotions , can reason, but what can other animals think? I think I'm
going off on a tangent here..

Anyway, if my child came to me and said "Mommy, where did we come
from?" I would tell him what science knows... with regards to
evolution... and tell him what we don't know...which is alot... but at
least perhaps, by him knowing where the gaps in our knowledge lie, he
will be better fit to try and work towards their answers then spending
time thinking about a guy in the sky who can see him no matter where he
is...
how spooky, in my opinion....

And like I said, this is my opinion...

/Emmy
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: XCULT-L@PSUVM.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"XCULT-L@PSUVM.BITNET"
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1992 10:10:30 -0500
From:         AHMED@DAYTON.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Truth Seeking Vs. Privelged Communications

One of the essential difference between our U.S. culture and other
more homogeneous societies is that in those other societies, truth
seeking is given preference over priveleged communication....HOWEVER, IN THIS SO
   CIETY
WHERE THE POLICE ARE NOT TRUSTED AND IT HAS BEEN AMPLY DEMONSTRATED
THAT THEY ARE CAPABLE OF USING TRUTH SEEKING AS AN EXCUSE TO GO
WITCH HUNTING....it more important to assure our minorities and our
liberals that someone is listening in....

Zahir
From: STCHRI@SSCVAX.CIS.MCMASTER.CA (DOUGL, APPARENTLY.)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Subject: Re: Veils, etc.
Date: 12 Nov 92 19:26:37 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Delivery-Notice:  SMTP MAIL FROM does not correspond to sender.
X-Envelope-to: XCULT-L@PSUVM.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"XCULT-L@PSUVM.BITNET"
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Zahir:
I am still not convinced this is a function of peer jury systems per se
rather than a function of unequal access to resources.

Conviction vs aquittal comparisons by ethnic background, visible minority
status and so on certainly bear out the point that there is endemic
inequality in how justice is applied but I cannot see how
professinalizing the jury system solves this problem at all. Just
who determines the qualifications of a professional juror, determines
what those qualifications would be,and ensures that the professional
juror is not equally likely ot be swayed by the better of the two
salesmen.

One suggestion made to me was to radically limit the grounds for
objecting to a juror as a way of ensuring that juries are not stacked
by 'slick big city lawyers'.

Another is to channel more resources into prosecutorial systems to
ensure that DA's and defense attorneys are on equal footings.

And finally, allowing more and more 'criminall matters to go to
mediation rather than prosecution.

Douglass
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-VMS-To: IN%"XCULT-L%PSUVM.BitNet@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU"
X-VMS-Cc: KLBHO
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Date:         Wed, 4 Nov 1992 14:49:00 CST
From:         "KRISTA L. BENNETT" <KLBHO@CANAL.CRC.UNO.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Dogma's Iron Cage

Chelagoi:
     I agree that a discussion of religious experience could prove
interesting, and along those lines, I have some questions for anyone
out there who could provide me with some sort of interesting response...
     My family did not provide any sort of religious education for
me, so I often find myself questioning what it is **I** believe in.
I often find that people take my questions as an attack on their
faith, when in truth I am only asking to try to get some sort of
viewpoint on the religious experience. First of all, in regard to
"the afterlife": Having encountered people who seem to spend most of
their life's journey in preparation for the afterlife, I find it
hard to justify not living in the here and now without feeling that
there is some sort of guarantee that there IS one...Wouldn't it
be a waste of the glory of the life we are given here on Earth if
all one did was prepare for an uncertain life after death?? What is
it that gives people such assurance that there really is something
after the here and now??? Again, I'm not making an attack, just curious.
     Also, many people talk about personal experiences with God
or (insert other higher authority here). I'm often confronted with
"Well, if you only have faith, God will come to you." How???
And where does faith come from?? Why is it next to impossible
for some very well-meaning people to get in touch with this
sense of "knowing" that there is a God out there?? I would personally
rather not have the stigma of going to Hell attached to my conscience
just because I can't "find God"... I am really left to
flounder out here with these ideas sometimes. It's not that I reject
religion... Maybe it's just that I have too many questions. I don't
know. Let me know what you all think...
------------Krista Bennett
               <KLBHO@canal.crc.uno.edu>
From: JCWEST@INDYVAX.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Subject: Re: dancing
Date: 12 Nov 92 16:28:19 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: XCULT-L@PSUVM.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"XCULT-L@PSUVM.BITNET"
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

$$$$,
    haven't heard them all, but will look into it.  that is, after i
get a few dancing lessons. (i have two left feet...:)
                                             joseph...
From: ap290@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ruth M. Hanschka)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Subject: Re: Veils, etc.
Date: 6 Nov 1992 22:28:54 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: ap290@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ruth M. Hanschka)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, 4FMH011@MC.BITNET () says:

>inside their houses they can ware what ever they feel comfortable unless some-
>one is coming to visit in house like brother in law, friend, or a stranger(plume
>   r, etc..) then they should ware decent and cover thier hair just to protect a
>   nd
>because you don't know what is going inside these people.  There are a statistic
>   s that says that most of the rape incidentds in the U.S. happens with known
>person like a friend, brother in law, or a relative( cousin ).

That's true; I think about 20% of rapes are committed by men unknown to their
victims.  The rest are acquaintences and relatives, even their husbands.
How wearing a veil would protect against that is beyond me.  Rape is an
act of violence, and the physical appearence of the victim actually has
little if anything to do with it. I don't see how a veil could make any
difference.  If a man is intent on rape, the age or dress of his target
is unimportant.  She's an object to vent whatever emotions he's feeling on.
Men have been known to rape their own daughters in this country, many times
before the child is old enough to start school.  It's nasty, vile, sick,
what have you, but it happens.

I don't see how the way that child dresses is going to make any difference.
I wish it did.:-(


-- 
		###	Ruth Hanschka, the Nethead    ###
			- ap290@cleveland.freenet.edu
	      Where anything can happen, and it usually does
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Date:         Thu, 5 Nov 1992 09:47:25 EST
From:         Mary Ellen Ugactz-Fernandez <ugactz@CUNIXF.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Dogma's Iron Cage

1. IF there is a God and you died not believing in God what is your
ending?
   Why haunt yourself with such a question...what about if there is
nothing when you died and you lived believing in a god and you died, -
what was the point of your believing...? Did you strive to know
yourslef have as much a s you strived to believe in god?

2. UFO's : Not yet... most claims go unproven.... there are a lot of
quacks out there... Especially Henry WInkler now and his wonderful,
fact-filled show ....

/emmy
From: ap290@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ruth M. Hanschka)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Subject: RE: open
Date: 7 Nov 1992 07:29:30 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: ap290@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ruth M. Hanschka)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, x91ahmed4@GW.WMICH.EDU () says:

>I have one small question if Dancing isn't vulgar..then why are the night
>club in large town have pronography andother bad things..they are also
>simple dance clubs...
>
Uhmmmm - you have me confused.  Night clubs with pronography?  You must
be going to places in a *bad* part of town, whatever town you're in.  Or
do you mean topless dancers, if you can call them that?  They don't allow
those around here.  Regular dance clubs, that aren't gathering places for
prostitutes, don't allow pronography on the premises; it could result in
a yanked license, something club owners try to avoid at all costs.  No
respectable place would allow that stuff in the door. 

I'd imagine a few places do have some in a back room or "under the table",
but no one will ever admit to it.  You must be hanging out in some strange
places for a "good kid" if you're running into *that*.

		Ruth
-- 
		###	Ruth Hanschka, the Nethead    ###
			- ap290@cleveland.freenet.edu
	      Where anything can happen, and it usually does
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-VMS-To: IN%"XCULT-L%PSUVM.BitNet@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU"
X-VMS-Cc: KLBHO
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Date:         Thu, 5 Nov 1992 12:57:00 CST
From:         "KRISTA L. BENNETT" <KLBHO@CANAL.CRC.UNO.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Dogma's Iron Cage

Alan: I think it's wonderful that you can't find a reason NOT to think about
God. I think that to eliminate that possibility from consideration would, on
the part of humanity as a whole, be egotistic, in that no one knows all
the answers (the exclusive rights to the Ultimate Truth that Brian was
talking about earlier). I was simply trying to point out the dangers of
broad generalizations when giving your point of view. Perhaps I was
trying to let you know that, again, if I interpreted what you said
correctly about no one believing that something as complex as the
human brain could come from a source other that God, there is someone
out here who considers that a distinct possibility. I think the idea
of exploring EVERYONE's "basic truth" leads to a much richer human
experience, and it would be wrong to assume that one's own conclusions,
however much effort one has put into coming to them, can be that
dogmatically asserted without running into someone else who has
come to some conclusion that is just as valid.

-------------Krista
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: XCULT-L@PSUVM.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"XCULT-L@PSUVM.BITNET"
X-VMS-Cc: 4FMH011
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Date:         Sat, 7 Nov 1992 22:13:29 -0700
From:         4FMH011@MC.BITNET
Subject:      Thanks

Thanks for every one who took from his/her time to answer my questions about
ethics.

Thank you again.

Alan
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1992 11:03:15 -0500
From:         x91ahmed4@GW.WMICH.EDU
Subject: Re: Veils, etc.

I agree with this point...
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 12:02:25 MEZ
From:         Uwe Hauck <UWEHAUCK@DOSUNI1.BITNET>
Subject:      RE: Right Wings

The explanation is quiet simple. I think the people (about 300 of nearly
350 000) just wanted to get it all mixed up. They didn't even want to
show people that they might hate foreigners they just simply wanted to
have some fun (?????????) being aggressive against a peaceful
demonstration.
There was a lot of upset in germany yesterday about the riots on sunday
and there were a lot of demonstrations against racism and violence
yesterday (remember, it is the 9. of November, the so called
"Reichskristallnacht" in germany in 1938 and this day is some kind
of remembrance for all of the germans.) So yesterday about 200 000
people showed up to demonstrate against antisemitism and violence
against immigrants and there where nearly no uproars of right wing
violence. Even a concert of a "Nazi"-Pop-Band was banned in Cologne
meanwhile an anti-racism concert took place.
So. A lot of people try to show that they are against racism
and I think that will work out in the end. Uwe
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: XCULT-L@PSUVM.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"XCULT-L@PSUVM.BITNET"
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1992 17:42:53 -0500
From:         AHMED@DAYTON.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Veils, etc.

Ahmed,

You are wrong in your assumption that rape is the result of attractiveness..

Rape is a crime of violence....fully covered women as old as in their 70 s'
and as young as 5 years old have been raped..... and studies show that the man w
   ho is
intent on rape does not look for women who are wearing sexy clothes but
those who look scared and vulnerable.....

Zahir
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Date:         Fri, 6 Nov 1992 11:44:41 -0500
From:         x91ahmed4@GW.WMICH.EDU
Subject:      Re: A woman as President

Alan I just stated a fact....

Ahmed
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Mailer:     Pegasus Mail v2.3 (R3).
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1992 12:19:30 CET
From:         Klaus Kursawe <NDB035@NOV.HB.SE>
Subject:      Re : right-wing violence

I just heard something interesting about this demonstration :
In this case it was really a failure of the police and the organisation.
While 300000 people were peacfully walking through the town, 300 violents
went to the meeting-place and so were in the first row - and of course
later in TV you only saw police fighting with them. If we give them this
chances we mustn't wonder when they use it.
We can't do much, but we can at least try not to give them such chances to
make noise - they are loud enough anyway. And now they had again succes,
everybody is talking about them, too many people get in panic and start
doing something stupid (like saying they should lose their jobs for that) -
EXACTLY what they want.
And yesterday I saw in MTV (an international music-broadcasting, very popular
here) a report about the "New NAZI-trend in Germany" and the "police even
protecting them" and so on - sounded as if everybody would support them.
YOU CAN'T DO THEM A GREATER PLEASURE !
I don't want to be silent about what they do and to keep it as a secret,
but by panicing and making such a big affair out of it we just show them
that their way is right - be violent, make a lot of noise and you get
the worlds complete attention and make a big panic.
To quote Schoenhuber, one of their (ex?) leaders :" Our greatest supporters
are the so-called Anti-Faschists who don't know if you write NAZI with
's' or with 'z'" - I think he hit the point...

/Klaus
NDB035@NOV.HB.SE
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: XCULT-L@PSUVM.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"XCULT-L@PSUVM.BITNET"
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Date:         Thu, 5 Nov 1992 10:28:05 -0500
From:         AHMED@DAYTON.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Ethics

Alan,

We have entire semester long courses on the subject of Ethics and the
answers to your questions.... here are mu summarized answers

1. Ethics are the motives behind a persons decision making....

2. The question(s) Ethics asks is "Who you kidding?"

3. Ethics relates to religion when the answer to the question of
   motives is painful...then one says its their religious duty!

4. Is it imperfect duty not to believe in God....  Those who do not
   have cannot fall back on religion to justiofy their acts...

5. My Ethical System calls for me to examine my reasons for every action
   and  to not take any designed to hurt anyone....

Zahi
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Date:         Wed, 4 Nov 1992 15:18:17 EST
From:         Mary Ellen Ugactz-Fernandez <ugactz@CUNIXF.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Dogma's Iron Cage

Joseph:

Who's to say there IS an afterlife? If you want to just believe in
anything...withouth having any kind of evidence in such a thing...why
not just believe in fairies? channelers? ufo's? the boogie man?
superstition? faith healing? crystals? astrology? homeopathy? unicorns?

And the list could go on.... the reason we have so many crooks and
frauds , is due in part by the gullible people who don't question or
ask for evidence...they just ssay "Ok, soiunds good to me"

/Emmy
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1992 20:52:34 -0700
From:         Zhao Yong <zyong@LINFIELD.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Veils, etc.--questions

I am sorry. I'm a new-comer to XCULT and thus have no background of the
topic "veils", "prostitutes & self-respect", etc. But I have been sitting
here to observe this interesting discussion or "quarrel". Would any one
out there like to give me some "clues"? Thanks.

Zhao Yong
zyong@linfield.edu
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1992 20:40:56 EST
From:         Mary Ellen Ugactz-Fernandez <ugactz@CUNIXF.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Veils, etc.

Zahir:

Actually, I don't think women who look vulnerable are always the
target, as rape is a crime bent on domination... women who wear sexy
clothes and feel confident/ look confident in their clothes have been
victims,, just have women who dress conservatively...

But I agree with you on all other points...isn't that something? we
agree! :)..

EMmy
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Date:         Wed, 4 Nov 1992 17:14:56 EST
From:         Mary Ellen Ugactz-Fernandez <ugactz@CUNIXF.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Scale the cliff

Brian....

Beautiful words...

/Emmy
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU