HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ce@head-cfa.harvard.edu (HRC Central Engineering)
Newsgroups: sci.environment
Subject: toxic spill remediation
Date: 15 Dec 92 19:53:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: head-cfa.1992Dec15.195341.4090
Organization: Center for Astrophysics, Cambridge MA USA



I am looking for a ''handbook'' or some references for 
toxic waste clean up; particularly for cleaning up
spilled mercury. If anybody know of a reference or
know of the particular techniques please let me know.
Thanks in advance...

			--Almus
Newsgroups: sci.environment,talk.environment
From: gary@ke4zv.uucp (Gary Coffman)
Subject: Re: Bad science
Reply-To: gary@ke4zv.UUCP (Gary Coffman)
Organization: Gannett Technologies Group
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 17:46:31 GMT

In article <JMC.92Dec16112109@SAIL.Stanford.EDU> jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU writes:
>I still read the New York Times science section most Tuesdays, but
>I find it heavily oriented to the editor's causes.

I think that's an incorrect assessment. While editors do have a slant,
most content decisions are based on what is trendy and the subject of
mass hysteria since that's what sells newspapers.

Gary

Xref: sparky sci.environment:13571 sci.systems:191
From: assmus@rocky1 (Bayne Assmus)
Newsgroups: sci.environment,sci.systems
Subject: soapbox preaching
Date: 16 Dec 1992 02:13:00 GMT
Organization: University of Saskatchewan
Reply-To: assmus@rocky1
NNTP-Posting-Host: rocky1.usask.ca



Why do so many "so-called" environmentalists preach against   
nuclear energy, an industry with a low fatality history (yes, 
we know about Chernobyl, a tragedy, but the only real source 
of fatalities in the industry) when thousands of miners a year 
in the United States alone die of black lung disease (an average
of 4000 deaths/yr during the seventies).  These deaths occur in
a modernized country with safety regulations.  How many deaths
occur in less developed countries that heavily rely on coal power
(and we can't deny them the rights to cheap energy that has given us
the standards of living we've enjoyed and abused)!

Maybe Greenpeace should start intercepting coal shipments
--

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
cranky geoeng's doing grad studies in the tundra
From: mmm@cup.portal.com (Mark Robert Thorson)
Newsgroups: sci.environment
Subject: Re: What about this, doomsters?
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 92 00:16:16 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

As I recall, Calvin at UC-Berkeley (who won a Nobel for his work in
photosynthesis) was proposing to use a member of Euphorbia for the
commercial production of hydrocarbon fuels.  The sap is rich in these
hydrocarbons, much like milkweed sap only better.  The last I heard,
a pilot project had been started (this was several years ago).  Can
anyone tell me what happened to this project?
From: v151luy2@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Scott D McGinnis)
Newsgroups: sci.environment
Subject: Re: Foresty Service.
Date: 17 Dec 92 16:51:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <BzEwBz.Bxs@acsu.buffalo.edu>, v151luy2@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Scott D McGinnis) writes...
>Hello:
>	I am interested in getting information about applying tp
>the U.S. Forestry Service for a job. I would like to ask if any
>one out there has the address I would need to write for info
>and an application. Thanks in advance.
> 
>							Scott
That is of course Forestry service. Sorry about the typo.

							Scott
Xref: sparky sci.environment:13660 talk.environment:5097
From: chrisb@pragmatix.cs.uoregon.edu (Christian Andrew Baxley)
Newsgroups: sci.environment,talk.environment
Subject: Re: Waste of the West (Review)
Date: 17 Dec 92 19:24:32 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.1992Dec17.192432.19013
Organization: University of Oregon Computer and Information Sciences Dept.

In article <JMC.92Dec11221651@SAIL.Stanford.EDU> jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU writes:
>Reading this review suggests that working at a supercomputing
>research center engenders gullibility.
>--
>John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305
>*
>He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.

And from this post, may we infer that Stanford professors are generally
content to interject worthless quasi-witticisms, devoid of argument?
Please give us something to back up your statements or stop wasting 
our time.

Christian A. Baxley

* He who refuses to respect my planet is doomed to eat my poop.
From: 471-1@air.atmo.arizona.edu (E. Shane Jimerfield)
Newsgroups: sci.environment,talk.environment
Subject: Re: Why do they hate us?
Date: 17 Dec 92 20:12:20 GMT
Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson

In article <JMC.92Dec16191437@SAIL.Stanford.EDU> jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU writes:
>In article <1992Dec17.015017.756@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> 471-1@.arizona.edu (E. Shane Jimerfield) writes:
>
>
>
>I'm curious about what E. Shane Jimerfield's "studies of humanity"
>consisted of.  Is it professors or high school teachers of English
>or history pontificating about scientific questions?  Historians don"t
>talk about men being "at war with this planet".
>
Yes John you are right, historians don't talk about men being at war 
with this planet. However as thinking being I have this strange ability to
assimulate my learning. And from this assimulation I develope my own
conclusions and from there develope my own beliefs. 

>However, let's try his criterion for solving "most problems" by asking
>a few questions of him.
>
>1. Will solar energy bring harm to another person or animal?
You have put together some good fundamental questions here, John.
Everyday we, yes all of us who are not hermits, draw from the Power
Companies. And as we all know this does do harm to the environment
thus some have sought to develope alternative energy sources, solar
power being one of them. On the surface it would seem that solar power
does not harm anyone or anything. But, if the manufacture of the
components are taken into consideration as being a part of solar power
then there has been a jump in logic. So, to answer your question, solar
power can and probably does do some harm ecologicaly.
>    
>2. Will nuclear energy bring harm to another person or animal?
>
This question has been answered many times... Three Mile Island,
Chernobal, etc.. etc... etc...

>3. Will eating a hamburger bring harm to another person or animal?
>
Many Physicians believe that eating red meat can lead to many
physiological problems, but as long someone is aware of the
possibilities then it's their body. As for the cow well ask him. As for
the environment, 70% of all grains grown in this country are feed to
livestock. 16 lbs of grain yeilds one lb of beef. California has a water
problem right.. well how much water is given to cattle in the valley..?

>4. Will boycotting McDonald's bring harm to another person or animal?

   It will both help people and harm them. It will harm people who make
their living from Micky D, but will help stabalize the environment.
>--
>John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305
>*
>He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.


-- 
Take 'er easy.... Shane
.watch out for the lightning (a large-scale high-tension natural electric
discharge in the atmosphere)......!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
..informal... a sudden usually improbable stroke of fortune.......
From: mwilson@ncratl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM (Mark Wilson)
Newsgroups: sci.environment
Subject: Re: Bad science
Date: 16 Dec 92 17:48:21 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: NCR Engineering and Manufacturing Atlanta -- Atlanta, GA

In <4066@master.CNA.TEK.COM> mikeq@freddy.CNA.TEK.COM (Mike Quigley) writes:

|In article <1992Dec15.195331.16086@vexcel.com? dean@vexcel.com (Dean Alaska) writes:

|*stuff deleted

|?	Three thousand years before Christ, the saplings of
|?	bristlecone pines poked through the earth and began 
|?	recording what would become 5,000 years of climatic
|?	changes.  In studying these trees, University of
|?	Arizona scientists have detected no fatter outer
|?	rings that would inevitable announce the so-called
|?	greenhouse effect.
|?
|?	The findings of UA`s Laboratory of Tree Rings Research
|?	will hardly shake up most climatologists: Only one in six
|?	accepts the apolcalyptic version of global warming.  But
|?	pity true-believing environmentalists, the oft-mocked
|?	"tree-huggers."  One of their major tenets is weaker than
|?	before, thanks to the perfidy of the pine.
|?

|*stuff deleted

|Okay. Now that we've reduced the greenhouse-effect theory to shambles, well work on
|our spelling and grammer next.

|By the way, who's sponsoring this study, the chemical industry?


Excellent technique, instead of trying to discredit his data, you try to
discredit him.  First by flaming his spelling, and then by charging him
with bias.

What's your next trick going to be?

-- 
Mob rule doesn't become any prettier, just because the mob start to call itself
a government.
It ain't charity if you are using someone else's money.
Mark.Wilson@AtlantaGA.NCR.com
Newsgroups: sci.environment
From: jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy)
Subject: Re: Enviro-industry on ABC
Reply-To: jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
	<1gofcoINNik@gap.caltech.edu>
Date: 16 Dec 92 17:12:12

Isn't the longest electric transmission line the intertie between
the Pacific Northwest and Southern California extending 1500 miles?
However, only a small amount of Southern California's electricity
comes over this line.  Does anyone know what fraction of the power
is lost to resistance?
--
John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305
*
He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.

Newsgroups: sci.environment,talk.environment
From: dean@vexcel.com (Dean Alaska)
Subject: Bad science
Organization: VEXCEL Corporation, Boulder CO
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 19:53:31 GMT

Since it has been popular recently ti disparage environmentalists for
occasional misinformation that they spread, I thought I would include
the following article that appeared in the 12-15-92 edition of the
Rocky Mountain News on the editorial page:

	Three thousand years before Christ, the saplings of
	bristlecone pines poked through the earth and began 
	recording what would become 5,000 years of climatic
	changes.  In studying these trees, University of
	Arizona scientists have detected no fatter outer
	rings that would inevitable announce the so-called
	greenhouse effect.

	The findings of UA`s Laboratory of Tree Rings Research
	will hardly shake up most climatologists: Only one in six
	accepts the apolcalyptic version of global warming.  But
	pity true-believing environmentalists, the oft-mocked
	"tree-huggers."  One of their major tenets is weaker than
	before, thanks to the perfidy of the pine.

This is a major daily newspaper that is editorializing with "bad
science."  Such a source has a far higher credibility than most
any environmental organization and therefore the misinformation
coming from them can be far more harmful than any environmental press
release.  I will send them a response tonight though since I am not
a subscriber, I may not know if it gets printed.

The subject of the applicability of a limited study of trees
has been thoroughly addressed in sci.env recently and the study
posted here a while back by Michael Tobis shows that their beliefs
on the opinions of climatologists is wrong (though I am not sure
what "apocalyptic version" they are referring to).

-- 

		dingo in boulder	(dean@vexcel.com)
From: miller@hmsp04.wg3.waii.com (Griff Miller X7114)
Newsgroups: sci.environment
Subject: Re: Concern For Ozone Depletion Clear, Knowledge of CFCs Mostly
Date: 17 Dec 92 19:05:03 GMT
Organization: Western Geo. - Div of Western Atlas Intn'l Inc., Houston, TX

In article <71868@cup.portal.com> mmm@cup.portal.com (Mark Robert Thorson) writes:
>A refrigerator typically has welded or brazed seals all the way
>around.  An automotive air conditioner is driven by a belt off the engine,
>hence there is at least one rotating joint which must be sealed.  The rest
>of the system also has places where leaks can occur.  Because of vibration
>the system cannot be welded or brazed together.

Actually, if properly designed and assembled, auto AC leaks very little.
I've seen cars go 5 years or more without needing to be topped off.
Not as good as a fridge, but not bad all the same. "if" is,
of course, the operative word.

>So a home refrigerator is really not very comparable to an automotive air
>conditioner.  The latter leaks and needs to be refilled every few years.

Or more if you have a Ford with those STUPID quick-connect joints (notice I
did not say quick-DISconnect).

Who dreamed those up, anyway?
--
Griff Miller > miller@monarch.wg3.waii.com < use this for email.

          *** My opinions are mine, not Western's. ***

   "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge, but 
    fools despise wisdom and discipline."   - Proverbs 1:7 
Newsgroups: sci.environment
From: ghn@keps.kodak.com (Gary Newman x6668)
Subject: Re: Help !!, Are Computers Green ?
Followup-To: ghn@keps.com
Summary: Not too green if you consider their lifetime
Keywords: computer, environment, recycling
Organization: Kodak Electronic Printing Systems
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 05:04:50 GMT

Computer manufacturing hasn't been very green historically, but it
probably could be made much greener through new and cleaner manufacturing
processes.

More importantly, we should give some thought to the short life span of
computers.  They have a lifetime of about three years now, and may
become even shorter lived than that in the future.  What's worse is that
unlike paper, or many other "consumables", the computer hardware is not
very recyclable.

Perhaps this means that the future computers will need to be made in
recyclable parts, with that little recycling triangle showing a number
inside.  Your office in the future may have recycling bins for parts
(cabinets are an obvious one).  So now for the hardest part... do
recycling numbers get printed in Hex, or Octal ;-)

Seriously, with an estimated 60 million IBM PC compatibles out there
that have a lifetime of 3 years that implies a waste stream of about
20 million computers per year.  Assuming an increase in computer installed
base (and growth in sales), this number goes far higher.

Anyone have ideas about how to recycle old 8" floppy disk drives, or how
about the disks?

====================================================================
Gary Newman				Voice: (508) 670-6668 
Kodak Electronic Printing Systems	Fax:   (508) 670-6554
164 Lexington Road			email: gnewman@keps.com
Billerica, MA   01821-3984
Newsgroups: sci.environment
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Subject: Re: The Insanity of Building Parking atCommuter Rail Stations
Reply-To: whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 16:55:41 GMT

In article <1992Dec14.014254.25602@pbhye.PacBell.COM> mjvande@pbhye.PacBell.COM (Mike Vandeman) writes:
>Like most government bodies in the Bay Area, BART
>needs to listen more to its consitituents, and start restoring our
>quality of life, by helping to eliminate our dependence on the
>automobile and its relatives.

Has it ever occured to you that they may *be* listening to their
constituency--and your opinion is that of a very small minority?

>BART stations are surrounded by a wasteland of concrete whose only
>function is to store automobiles for 10 hours a day and be even
>less productive (if possible!) the other 14 hours.

But Mike...  Cars taht spend 10 hours a day parked aren't be driven
about.  Isn't that what you want--fewer cars being driven at any given
time?

>     The very least you should do with the parking is charge a
>realistic fee for its use, and make sure that it is constructed
>using road funds (since it benefits only auto users), not scarce
>transit funds. 

No doubt, that would do much to lure more folks onto BART and make for
fewer cars on the roads.....  Uh, huh.....

>                                   Alliance for a Paving Moratorium
>                                   Auto-Free Bay Area

At least you're up-front about your agenda.  

	--Hal

-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |            You!
510-823-5447                 |    Out of the Gene Pool!
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |
From: bg055@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Stewart Rowe)
Newsgroups: sci.environment
Subject: Re: toxic spill remediation
Date: 17 Dec 1992 00:25:39 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


A serious problem with mercury is that when spilled it gets into
cracks in the flooring etc. and in the "old days" when ventilation
in labs was not so good, could continue to vaporize more or less
forever until the building was torn down.
 
You want a horror story? When the company I worked for took over
a paper company about 35 years ago, I was sent to look over their
testing lab and recommend equipment etc. To test the strength of
one kind of paper they were making, they clamped it between two
rings with a tall glass tube attached to the upper ring. Then they
poured liquid mercury into the tube until the paper burst. The mercury
fell into a pan and inevitably splashed over. (Sure, it was
"cleaned up" at the end of every shift).
I pulled rank I didn't have a stopped that the day I saw it.
  It may be coincidental, but a long-time chemist there developed
"the shakes" so badly that he spent most of the rest of his career
cleaning floors, stocking shelves, etc.
-Stewart Rowe usr2210a@cbos.uc.edu   srowe@igc.org
Newsgroups: sci.environment
From: andrewt@watson.ibm.com (Andrew Taylor)
Subject: Hunter-Gatherers at Ecological Equilibrium?
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 06:37:59 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

In article <1466601977@igc.apc.org> alanm@igc.apc.org (Alan McGowen) writes:
>The *fact* that hunter-gatherer populations are typically at long-term
>equilibrium with the environment (like other animal populations) is
>mentioned, but the causes are not probed.

There is evidence that ecological change caused by hunter-gatherers slows
after a burst of extinctions but what ecological evidence is there that
that in most cases an equilibrium has been reached.  This is very difficult
to establish as presumably it involves determining the species compositions
of ecosystems over thousands of years.

I don't think comparisons of the ecological effects of hunter-gatherers
to other societies are interesting until you factor out differences in
population density even if this lower density is an inherent property
of hunter-gatherer societies.

Your Beaver example (if correct) establishes that Indians had the potential
to over-exploit the Beaver.  But did ecological limitations prevent them from
devoting the time or energy to do this until Europeans arrived providing
new technology or new resources?  Would the Indians (without technological
change) in time have over-exploited the Beaver just as they over-exploited
other species?

Andrew
From: steinly@topaz.ucsc.edu (Steinn Sigurdsson)
Newsgroups: sci.environment
Subject: Re: Development policies
Date: 18 Dec 92 23:45:07 GMT
	<1992Dec15.155026.11786@vexcel.com> <1992Dec15.155957.12052@vexcel.com>
	<1992Dec18.164247.17939@ke4zv.uucp>
Organization: Lick Observatory/UCO
NNTP-Posting-Host: topaz.ucsc.edu
In-reply-to: gary@ke4zv.uucp's message of Fri, 18 Dec 1992 16:42:47 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.164247.17939@ke4zv.uucp> gary@ke4zv.uucp (Gary Coffman) writes:


   In article <1992Dec15.155957.12052@vexcel.com> dean@vexcel.com (Dean Alaska) writes:
   >After some discussions here with Gary, John and Stein, I wanted to tie a
   >few ideas together.  Readers might ponder why World Bank economists
   >did not realize that the huge export boom they promoted would not

 ...
   This type of increasing deficit financing would be seen as a red flag
   by any rational private investor. This kind of government borrowing and 
   international (government financed) lending is a recipe for disaster as 
   the above quote shows. The World Bank and the IMF have few success stories 
   they can claim for their policies which are founded on collectivist and 
   statist thinking by academic financiers playing with money for whose steward-
   ship they are not held responsible.

   The alternative, of course, is for countries to make themselves attractive
   for private foreign investment and development. This brings new jobs and
   income to workers, tax revenue to the government, and a climate of prosperity
   that fosters other investors, domestic and foreign, to start more businesses
   catering to the new found flows of wealth.

Ack. This is a gross oversimplification Gary. In the medium term
indiscriminate foreign private investment can be disasterous
because the optimum strategy for the foreign investors may be
to force asset stripping of the local economy to maintain the
investment which is then abandoned. Now, you may argue that
in the long run that doesn't matter as long as the capital
flows in (although I'd argue that it is not always the case),
but it is irrelevant anyway, as the locals will _percieve_
an injustice and rebel. Then you either have to abandon your
investment or back it by force - whether by landing US Marines
or bribing locals.  This is why people are willing to accept
less than optimum gross gains in the long term in exchange for
the inefficiencies of managed economies, the short term pain
and income discrepancies of pure capitalism have too often been
too much to tolerate.

*  Steinn Sigurdsson   			Lick Observatory      	*
*  steinly@lick.ucsc.edu		"standard disclaimer"  	*
*  Just because there's a reason          			*
*  Doesn't mean it's understood              Specials, 1979	*
From: bero@solace.hsh.se (Bjoern Lindgren)
Newsgroups: sci.environment
Subject: REQUEST: litterature about creosote and microbes.
Summary: Request about litterature about creosote and microbes
Keywords: creosote
Date: 12 Dec 92 10:57:32 GMT
Organization: Solace Computer Club, Sundsvall, Sweden

I want to know if there are any books about microbes or micro-
organisms destroying creosote, or something like that.

If anybody knows about a book on the subject please let me know.

Thanks.

bero@solace.hsh.se
Newsgroups: sci.environment
From: dietz@cs.rochester.edu (Paul Dietz)
Subject: Re: Zinc
Organization: University of Rochester
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 21:18:36 GMT

In article <1992Dec12.194227.6791@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu> davidbri@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu (David Brierley) writes:

>    On the topic of environmental regulations, someone mentioned that a
> limit on zinc was lower than the dietary requirement for humans.  It is
> important to note that the chemical state of the substance is at least
> as important as its concentration.  I don't know anything about zinc
> toxicity but I'd guess that the zinc in supplements is in a more stable
> form (i.e. less reactive), like an oxide.  In waste zinc is often
> dissolved in an acidic medium and is therefore more reactive and
> possibly more toxic.  If this is true it is possible that a lower
> concentration of zinc in one form is more toxic than the same
> concentration of zinc in another form.


Glancing at a bottle of Centrum, I find that, indeed, zinc is present
as the oxide (15 milligrams of zinc oxide per tablet).  Zinc oxide
is only sparingly soluble in pure water.

However, zinc oxide should react with the hydrochloric acid in the
stomach to form zinc chloride, which is highly soluble (4.25 grams
per cc of water at 25 C).

	Paul F. Dietz
	dietz@cs.rochester.edu