HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: therese@garnet.berkeley.edu
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: the term "vegetarian"
Date: 21 Aug 92 16:58:56 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu
Originator: therese@garnet.berkeley.edu

Hi, I'd like to add my 2 cents worth to the discussion about aspiring
vegetarians reading this group and being turned off by rabid veggies here.
I wasn't a vegetarian when I started reading this group, either, and like
many out there now couldn't understand what the big deal was about referring
to myself as a vegetarian even though I occasionally (once or twice a month)
ate meat.  But now that I am a vegetarian, I DO see the point - it's really
frustrating to tell someone you're a vegetarian and have them assume that
you eat meat (chicken or fish).  It's really frustrating to go to a restaurant
and ask for vegetarian options and have the waitress point out chicken and
fish dishes to you.  It's *really* frustrating to have someone like your
mother-in-law tell you a friend of her's is a vegetarian, only *she* eats
chicken and turkey and fish (with the implication that you are unreasonable
to call yourself a vegetarian and not eat those things).  This happened to
me last weekend.  The problem with referring to yourself as a vegetarian
but still eating meat, however occasionally, is that people who know this
will think *all* people who refer to themselves as vegetarian do this, and
many of us don't!

Basically, what I'm trying to say is that things look different depending
on which side of the fence you're on.  When you jump over the fence and
become a vegetarian, maybe you'll see our side more clearly.

Therese
From: hhaas@RAIL9000.gatech.edu (Harry P. Haas)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: I love red meat! I love sugar!
Date: 12 Aug 92 18:53:09 GMT
Organization: Georgia Tech Research Institute

>chandy@marais.inria.fr (Chandra SHEKHAR) writes:
>
>>Simple. Visit the coronary ward of the hospital near you.

Or . . . visit a meat packing plant.

My familiy used to be half owners of a meat packing plant that later
sold out to Oscar-Meyer.  When I was rather young, we visited the
plant.  I got to see how they killed pigs, and watch them make bologna.
I didn't eat bologna again for years.

I have a VERY vivid memory of the visit to this day.  Oh, yeah. I also
remeber the photo-copy machine! (This was about 1965.)

hh
From: ez002228@shaggy.ucdavis.edu
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Vita-Mix ?
Keywords: Juicer
Date: 15 Aug 92 16:44:08 GMT
Organization: Computing Services, UC Davis



I would like to hear opinions on the Vita-Mix Juicer.  Is it any
good?


TJ.
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: anne@cs.UAlberta.CA (Anne J.R. Nield)
Subject: Re: Wool Machines
Organization: University of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 15:18:20 GMT

traub@btcs.bt.co.uk (Michael Traub) writes:


>Well I wouldn't exactly call England warm but I suppose you could live
>somewhere colder (is that possible ?-). 

At the risk of perpetuating all those frozen Canadian north myths
(myths in the sense it isn't like that all year!), if you want colder
try Edmonton, Alberta in January or February when it can hit -30C
for weeks at a stretch.  Doesn't always, but it CAN.

The preferred winter-time clothing here is often polyester-filled
quilted jackets,coats, etc.  VERY warm.  And people dress in layers;
I find several layers of lighter clothing warmer than, say, a single
heavy sweater.  And a lot easier to adapt to indoor, heated areas (since
one often finds, after struggling through the blizzard, that the 
building one is working in has been heated to tropical temperatures!)

Anne


 



>-- 
>Michael Traub
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Between the Fats/Oils
Date: 13 Aug 92 01:03:12 GMT
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1992Aug10.081755.4324@rtf.bt.co.uk> traub@rtf.bt.co.uk (Michael Traub) writes:
>Actually all the available research seems to indicate that for a *vegan*
>a *typical* (i.e. low percentage of saturates) high fat diet has no
>nastier side effect than excess calories (and the general problems
>of obesity).

I don't think so.  A lot depends on your genes.

>For some people a reduction of fat intake below 20% can give rise to
>a number of skin complaints.

???  I've never heard this.  People need very little linoleic acid
(less than a tsp/day).

>What I am trying to say is that for vegans I don't think fat is an issue.

That's much too strong an assertion.  It's probably the case, though,
that a vegan diet will be lower in fat, and especially saturated fat,
than one with animal products.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: mdk@michael.udev.cdc.com (Mike D. Kail)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Ideas for a persuasive speech on vegetarianism
Date: 21 Aug 92 11:55:26 GMT
Reply-To: mdk@michael.udev.cdc.com (Mike D. Kail)
Organization: Control Data Systems

In article <cass8806.260@elan.glassboro.edu>, cass8806@elan.glassboro.edu (KYLE CASSIDY) writes:
|> In article <46606@shamash.cdc.com> mdk@michael.udev.cdc.com (Mike D. Kail) writes:
|>  
|> >I ... have to give a persuasive speech.  I am thinking
|> >about doing it on the benefits of vegetarianism, but am having
|> >a hard time coming up with a main focal point....etc
|> 
|> rather recently i saw a single sheet of paper called "how to win an argument 
|> with a meat eater" it was filled with all sorts of neat facts. perhaps 
|> someone has a copy? if so, please post it, because i'd like one myself.
|> 
|> kc

As I have had several requests, I will post my speech when it
is complete.  It is due this coming Monday, August 24th.  

NOTE:  I am by no means a *professional* speech writer, but am
just a mere 'puter nerd fulfilling a communications requirement
for college, hence the speech may or may not *agree* with you.
Also, due to the nature of my audience (and more importantly) the
instructor, I plan to give a fairly mellow speech, and merely
touch upon the benefits of a vegetarian diet.  Specifically, I
am going to try to persuade the audience to give the McDougall
Program (12-day) a try and see how they feel at the end.

If anyone has any good/interesting data that I could present, I
still welcome posts and/or e-mail.

-- 
Regards,

+---------------------------------------------------------------+
| Mike D. Kail                          mdk@udev.cdc.com        |
| Control Data Systems, Inc.                                    | 
| 4201 North Lexington Avenue           (612) 482-2942 (W)      |
| Arden Hills, MN  55126                (612) 781-9880 (H)      |
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
| "Fast or slow, no matter what the pace, I know I can win."    |
|  - Morceli                                                    |
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
From: pjh@eng.cam.ac.uk (Philippa Hogben)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: E1404 etc. (Re: LIST OF INGREDIENTS DERIVED FROM ANIMALS)
Date: 13 Aug 92 15:44:39 GMT
Organization: cam.eng

hpiirai@cs.joensuu.fi (Heikki Piirainen) writes:

>Does anybody know anything about those E numbers they use over
>here to identify some ingredients? E1404 (or something like
>that) is gelatin; are there others to be aware of?

You can get a book (in Britain) called "E is for additives" which
lists what the various "E-numbers" represent. Sorry, I know nothing
more about it.

Philippa Hogben

pjh@eng.cam.ac.uk
From: jameslo@tekig1.PEN.TEK.COM (James L Long)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Speaking of veg fast food....
Date: 14 Aug 92 19:54:00 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton,  OR.

In article <2913@voodoo.UUCP> das@voodoo.boeing.com (Deb Schwartz) writes:
>....on my trip last week to Utah, we stopped at a Denny's either in
>Idaho or Utah (don't remember which) and one of their specials was a
>veggie burger!  Granted, it was ovo-lacto, but it was good (similar to
>a Garden Burger, but the waiter said it was made by Kraft!), and it's
>a start.  The waiter said that not that many people actually ordered it,
>but they were thinking about making it a permanent part of the menu
>anyway.  Anyone else seen veg burgers at Denny's?  
>
>Debbie Schwartz // das@voodoo.boeing.com  // or uunet!bcstec!voodoo!das 

Not exactly Denny's, but I was amazed this very afternoon at the
menu at Lyon's, a Denny's Look-Alike here in Portland.  Not only
did they offer GardenBurgers (tm), but they had a hot veggie sand-
which of sauteed bell peppers, onion, chiles and tomatoes on a
whole wheat roll, with optional cheese topping.  Comes with choice
of fries, soup or salad.  Tasted great!

--
US Mail: James Long, Tektronix, Inc.
         Box 500  MS 39-300, Beaverton OR  97077
Phone:   (503)627-6083
From: jerry@marin.uucp (Jerry C. Hudgins)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: E-mail address for Clinton?
Date: 20 Aug 92 02:49:47 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Private Use
X-NewsSoftware: GRn 1.16e (7/4/92) by Mike Schwartz & Michael B. Smith

OK, I *know* that this isn't really veggie-related, and I apologize...

...but someone posted a set of E-mail addresses for Presidential campaigns
here earlier, and I've lost it.  Could someone less careless E-mail me the
Compu$erve address for the Clinton campaign?

I guess you could consider the question very broadly ecology-related.  ;-)

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jerry C. Hudgins                   Internet: jerry%marin.uucp@seq.uncwil.edu
125 Cherokee Trail                 UUCP    : uunet!marin!jerry
Wilmington, NC 28409-3407 (USA)    Voice   : (919) 392-2358
From: chandy@marais.inria.fr (Chandra SHEKHAR)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: I love red meat!  I love sugar!
Date: 12 Aug 92 16:02:35 GMT
Organization: INRIA, Sophia-Antipolis (Fr)

In article <92223.57211.J024330@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM>,
J024330@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM writes:
|> And I'm trying to kick the habit.  I read two books by a Doctor named
|> John MacDougall.  They were quite interesting in that they recommended
|> a high starch diet, and lay off the fats, all meats, and dairy products.
|> Fine, I'm trying, but I feel like a heroin addict craving my next fix.
|> Any suggestions?
|> 
|> Chris

Simple. Visit the coronary ward of the hospital near you.
Collect statistics on the number of persons under 50 in 
the US who die of heart disease and diabetes every year.
Find out how it feels to have a heart attack.

What I am trying to get at is that in order to make any
real, lasting change in your lifestyle, you have to be 
highly motivated --- you should actually be able to *feel*
the harm red meat, sugar, salt, etc. do to you. You should
be able to visualise your blood thickening and your arteries
choking each time you eat a hamburger or a steak. You cannot
give up red meat (or cigarettes, or any other addiction)
for the abstract goal of being "healthy". You have got to
realize the prize you pay for unhealthy habits.

Good luck. I don't know how it feels to give up meat, but
I used the above approach to give up dairy products and caffeine,
and it worked fine.

Chandy
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: henders@eos.ncsu.edu (HANS  ENDERS)
Subject: request: tomato recipes
Originator: henders@c00007-118dan.eos.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: henders@eos.ncsu.edu (HANS  ENDERS)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 14:30:57 GMT


does someone out there have
any unique resipes for tomatoes?

i've got a healthy supply of romas
from my garden,. and am tired
of salsa, spaghetti sauce and
gaspacho.

thanks!

hans
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: sammy@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (Sammy)
Subject: Re: the term "vegetarian"
Organization: The Comp Center
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 00:54:21 GMT

Tiffany -

Glad to hear from another McDougaller! I relate to what you said about
not wanting to identify yourself as vegan - I feel the same way, even
though my eating patterns are vegan (with the possible exception of
honey, which I do eat). 

I too eat this way for health, and as many others have mentioned,
am finding my sensitivity to other vegetarian issues growing.

There seems to be such a lot of misinformation out there about nutrition
and I sometimes wonder how one knows what is fact and what is fancy.
Even friends, who I'm beginning to discover are at various stages of
vegetarianism, come up with "facts" that are widely at variance with
what I've read in John McDougall's and John Robbins' books.

For instance, someone recently said they would probably eat no meat
at all if it weren't for the fact that their fiance was diabetic, and that it
is impossible for a diabetic to get enough protein if they don't eat meat!

All I know is what I've read, so I don't feel I can challenge such a 
remark; you would expect that the person who was actually diabetic would
be aware of their own food needs and wouldn't need a layperson like me
challenging them.

Oh well, I'm healthier than I've ever been in my life - and don't see
myself changing my diet.


-- 
Sammy=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
The enemy of women...is not men, just as the enemy of blacks is not whites.
The enemy is "the tyranny of the dull mind." Carol S. Pearson, _The Hero Within_ 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: wadley@mullauna.cs.mu.OZ.AU (Gregory Robert Wadley)
Subject: more on fruitarianism
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 08:41:36 GMT

I had a few questions about frugivory, so I'll answer them all in one hit...

There seem to be two ways to view fruitarianism:

1) Scientific

Like other primates, we are naturally frugivorous.
(Chimps eat about 80% fruit, supplemented with leaves, shoots, and
the occasional small vertebrate.)
If something needs to be cooked or processed to make it chewable,
it ain't natural.

For various reasons, we eat other things instead.
This is the cause of most disease, especially things like colds and flu,
and cancer, arthritis, obesity and so on.
By eating only fruit, you get healthy. 
You also find you don't eat anywhere near as much, yet have more energy.

As a bonus, fruitarians miss out on a lot of life's drudgery,
such as cooking, washing up, trips to the supermarket etc,
and they save lots of money.

2) Ethical

Most of the arguments used against meat-eating apply here, but more so.
Fruit trees "want" you to eat their fruit. That's how they reproduce
(in nature at least). Eating other vegetables usually means killing the plant.
By not suffering permanent food-hangover, the fruitarian is generally happier
and less aggressive.
In general, consumption and pollution is minimized.

REFERENCES
----------

I'm working from memory, so will probably leave a lot out ...

(popular)

R. Horne "Improving on Pritikin"
H. and M. Diamond "Fit for life"
D. Collison "Why do I feel so awful?"
Brostoff and Gamlin "The complete guide to food allergy and intolerance"
A. Ehret "Rational fasting"

(scientific)

New York Times, 15 May 1979, page C1
Kay, R. (1985) Ann. Rev. Anthrop. 14:315-341
Speth, J. (1989) J. Human Evol. 18:329-343
Walker, A. (1981) Phil. Tran. Royal Soc. London B292:57-64
Peters and O'Brien (1983) J. Human Evol. 12:721-9


MAKING THE CHANGE
-----------------

It's just like giving up smoking or meat-eating: that is,
it can be a bit weird at first, but then it's easy and you feel better.
You can certainly maintain an active life, in fact you will feel more energetic
for longer. But you may feel weak at first while toxins are eliminated.
Try making breakfast fruit-only (this is enough for many people), then if
you want, extend it later into the day as desired. This is an easy and
commonly recommended way, though some prefer "cold-turkey" or fasting.

If you want to correspond with fruitarians, write to the address in my
previous post.

Happy eating ...

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: churchwell@vms.ocom.okstate.edu (Kimberly B. Churchwell)
Subject: Re: Vegan dilemma concerning pancreatic enzymes.
Organization: OSU College of Osteopathic Medicine
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 22:29:19 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.171651.23638@spdcc.com>, dyer@spdcc.com (Steve
Dyer) writes:
> ...There's no such thing as "impacted feces".

You'd get an argument on that from any geriatrics nurse.  (Nope, I'm not
a nurse, just a former nursing student.)  "Fecal impaction" is a common
condition in elderly patients who consume low-fiber diets and get little
or no exercise.  The usual remedy is an enema (warm oil enemas were
often used for this purpose when I was a student, and let me tell you,
you DON'T want to be the one doing the cleanup afterwards).  If the
enema is ineffective, some lucky nurse gets the privilege of manually
removing the impaction, bit by bit, with a gloved finger, lots of K-Y
jelly, and even more patience.  If all else fails, surgery may be
necessary, especially if the impaction is really "backed up" beyond the
rectum.

-- 
Kimberly B. Churchwell, Prog./Analyst, Okla. State U.  | TANSTAAFL, but
Osteopathic College--churchwell@vms.ocom.okstate.edu   | even so, I never
BIX--kchurchwell  AOL--KChurchwel  CIS--72170,1552     | quit hoping.
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: abulsari@abo.fi (Abhay Bulsari VT)
Subject: Re: Vegan dilemma concerning pancreatic enzymes.
Organization: Abo Akademi University
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 06:18:28 GMT

In article <1992Aug22.184353.1917@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
>In article <1992Aug22.103147.3162@btcs.bt.co.uk> traub@btcs.bt.co.uk (Michael Traub) writes:
>>We don't want to hear this crap in rec.food.veg!
>
>Ah, the royal "we".  Tough.  You don't get to presume for others.

When he says we, he includes me. And many others he does get to
presume for. Steve, I think it is time you discuss stuff more
sensibly rather than try to find faults where there aren't.

>>This is rec.food.veg. It is a newsgroup for people interested in
>>the vegetarian lifestyle.
>
>Oh, the monolithic vegetarian "lifestyle"?

What do you try to achieve by this question ? Is Michael wrong ?

With regards,



-- 
A. Bulsari                                       Tel.  358 (21) 654 721
V{rmeteknik, ]bo Akademi                         Fax   358 (21) 654 792
Va"rmeteknik, A'bo Akademi   (for the non-Scandinavian screen impaired)
SF 20500 Turku, Finland                          Tlx  57 62301 AABIB SF
From: anneb@tecsun1.etl.army.mil (Anne Brink)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Hydrodgenizing (was Re: butter vs. margarine)
Date: 12 Aug 92 20:29:30 GMT
Organization: U.S. Army Topographic Engineering Center, Ft. Belvoir, VA.

zeke@reed.edu (Zeke Koch) writes:

>People claim that margarine is potentially dangerous b/c of the 
>artificial hydrogenization (sp?) process.

Sorry for coming in in the middle of this, but I'm curious.  How can you
artificially hydrodgenize margarine (or anything), and how is this dangerous?

					-Anne
					anneb@tec.army.mil
					confessed margarine user
From: sbhattac@wissel.GBA.NYU.EDU (Shankar Bhattacharyya)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Nutritional information
Date: 19 Aug 92 02:15:38 GMT
Organization: NYU Stern School of Business

In article <1992Aug18.200341.12554@pixel.kodak.com> young@serum.kodak.com writes:
>In article <8660020@hplred.HP.COM> dsouza@hplred.HP.COM (Roy D'Souza) writes:

>>Based on Rich's numbers:
>>
>>A california avocado contains 27.4 grams in fat (27.4 * 9 = 246.6 calories)
>>out of a total of 173 grams ((27.4 * 9) + ((173 - 27.4) *4)) = 829 calories.)
>>Hence, in a California avocado, the percentage of fat by weight is 16%, and
>>the percentage of fat calories is 30%.
>>In a Florida avocado, using these same calculations, the percentage of fat
>>by weight is 8% (or by calories is 17%.)

Roy D'Souza's mistake, of course, is in ignoring the rather substantial 
amount of water in avocados. Avocados, of course, are not just fat,
protein, and carbohydrate. Firm fleshed fruit like avocados are in the
neighbourhood of 50% water, minimum. And the carbohydrate in avocados
is likely to be mostly fiber, which is included in the carbohydrate
numbers in the current USDA Handbook 8 numbers. I presume that that's
where Rich Young's numbers come from. On that ssumption, a fair proportion
of the carbohydrate is not digestible.

>	Had I known what you were planning to do with the numbers, I'd have
>	supplied the rest:
>
>	According to the same USDA source of information, the two types of
>	avocado analyze as follows:
>
>	California:
>
>		30 grams of fat (It doesn't add up, I know...there must be
>				   other components not accounted for by the
>				   three fatty acid categories above.)

The reason the numbers do not add up is that the three categories include
only twelve to eighteen-carbon fatty acids. Shorter and longer chain fatty
acids are not included in the numbers. You should see what that does to
numbers for butter, which has substantial amount of shorter chain acids,
or for vegetable oils like mustard oil, which contains lots of longer chain
fatty acids (close to 40%), and is illegal in the US, by the way.

I'm supposed to write up a note on this in the medium term, to send out to
clients who keep bugging us about this exact issue. I've had to explain
this, over the phone, to people who don't have the slightest idea what a
fatty acid is. Hell, what a carbon atom is.

- Shankar
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: abulsari@abo.fi (Abhay Bulsari VT)
Subject: Re: Veggie Restaurants in Copenhagen?
Organization: Abo Akademi University
Distribution: rec
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 13:57:49 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.114835.14524@btcs.bt.co.uk> traub@btcs.bt.co.uk (Michael Traub) writes:
>In article <KJL.92Aug10083922@minotaur.atex.kodak.com> kjl@atex.kodak.com writes:
>>Anybody know of any places where a Vegan can munch in Copenhagen?
>>
>Aggh! The Danes are the pits when it comes to Vegan food! I worked there
>for a while. They usually have salads for Sunday Lunch. Apart from 99%
>of the salads being adulterated with corpses they actually had one salad
>that consisted of nothing but raw mince and onions:-<
>
>Here is what I could find in the 1991 Vegetarian travel guide, published by
>the Vegetarian Society UK.
>
>Doubtless some of these places will have closed down by now, others probably
>won't have anything suitable for vegans. May I remind *********all*********
>vegetarians and vegans that this book works by user input, and that doesn't
>mean emailing me if a restaraunt has closed down! The address of the UK
>Vegetarian Society is in the FAQ.
>
>Beerola
>Scala, Axeltorv, 1609
>Open 10am-Midnight

This is not vegetarian, but has some vegetarian food. It is a food
counter of a sort, and not a restaurant. Close to the centre of the
town, near railway station.

>Taj Indian Restaurant
>Vesterbrogade 38, 1620 V
>Tl: 31 22 55 86 / 31 22 72 77
>Indian restaurant using fresh ingredients. Specialities include home
>made cheeses. Open 12 noon to 11.30pm.

It may have some vegetarian food. I avoid Indian restaurants outside
India. Usually they are not good for vegetarians.



-- 
A. Bulsari                                       Tel.  358 (21) 654 721
V{rmeteknik, ]bo Akademi                         Fax   358 (21) 654 792
Va"rmeteknik, A'bo Akademi   (for the non-Scandinavian screen impaired)
SF 20500 Turku, Finland                          Tlx  57 62301 AABIB SF