HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: webdw@mvutd.att.com (Bruce D Woods)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .22 gun for plinking
Date: 11 Sep 92 20:12:06 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Sep11.024756.3302@sserve.cc.adfa.oz.au> ghm@sserve.cc.adfa.oz.au (Geoff Miller) writes:
#mike.federchuk@rose.com writes:
#
##... What is so special about the S&W 41 that it is
##almost $300CDN more than the S&W 422/622?
#
#Accuracy.
#
##A 422 costs about the same as the
##Ruger Mark II, is it as good?
#


The .22 handgun usages around here tend towards four general groups:
(1) plinkers - Taurus rev., Smith 422/622, others
(2) competition (bowling pins) - Ruger Mark II, Browning Buckmarks,
    Smith models 17/617 rev.
(3) target competition - Smith 41, Ruger Mark II, Browning Target,
    plus Hi-Standards are still great.
(4) Silhouette - Browning sil., Ruger sil., Freedom Arms 252 rev.,
    Smith 41 w/ 7" barrel

Although I don't own one, Bill's Mark II in several versions is a lot
of .22 for the money.

BDW
From: ke4zv!gary@gatech.edu (Gary Coffman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Mossberg 500 vs Rem 870
Date: 7 Sep 92 00:39:18 GMT
Organization: Gannett Technologies Group

In article <1992Aug30.040321.22511@henson.cc.wwu.edu> n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio) writes:
#
#I fired a Mossberg 500 12 ga yesterday and dug it.  It had 18" barrel,
#(8 rd mag?) was parkerized, and had ghost ring sites.  Only matte
#stainless (or a big price cut) could have made it better to me.
#
#I liked it, but a few people have said that the Rem 870 is better.
#A whole lot better?  Why?
#I've noticed the mossberg can't be beat for price.  If it's not a
#big difference, I probably won't care.
#
#Is it possible I would regret buying one over the other?

Don't overlook the Ithaca Riot Gun. Light, tough, and fires every
time the slide goes back in battery. (unless you let go of the 
trigger) This is one fast firing 8 shot pump. It's parkerized,
oiled wood furniture, and with a sling makes an excellent combat
package. Compared one on one with a Streetsweeper, it has a much
higher rate of fire, is much more controllable, and is much
lighter.

Gary
From: reid@metis.tti.com (Reid Kneeland)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Police Story (was Re: Summary: Concealed Carry...)
Date: 10 Sep 92 19:28:17 GMT
Organization: Transaction Technology Inc.

In article <tssn#gl.damiel@netcom.com> damiel@netcom.com (Paul Theodoropoulos) writes:
#In <1992Sep8.135644.29837@ke4zv.uucp> ke4zv!gary@gatech.edu (Gary Coffman) writes:
##racing through his mind for having shot a suspect in the back. Much to
##his surprise, he finds the perp intact and trembling. The perp says, "I 
##give up! Just don't shoot that thing again!" The concussion had knocked
##him down, not to mention deafening him.

#now THAT'S a laugh. if you believe the concussion really knocked him down, 
#and not the *psychological response* to the concussive blast,

Actually, the recoil spun the Earth around, knocking him off his feet.

#i have some
#*gauranteed* one-shot-stop ammo i'd like to sell you.... 

There's plenty of guaranteed one-shot-stop ammo around.  Of course, it
probably won't fit in a HANDGUN...

=====================================================================
Reid Kneeland
reid@tti.com  (that's MISTER reid@tti.com to you!)
Transaction Technology Inc., Santa Monica, CA, USA (310) 450-9111 x2499
The opinions expressed above do not necessarily etc etc...

Never trust a man who can count to 1,023 on his fingers.
From: rtaraz@bernoulli.WPI.EDU (Ramin Taraz)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Taurus Warranty
Date: 15 Sep 92 19:24:38 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute, Worcester, MA 01609-2280

I bought my Taurus PT-92 about 3 months ago and send the waranty card
to the company.  Am I supposed to hear from them?  If I am, I havn't!
From: se08+@andrew.cmu.edu (Seth Adam Eliot)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Self def. .38 ammo question
Date: 15 Sep 92 19:24:55 GMT

First I would like to thank the many people who have responded to my
previous questions, you have been of great help.  Now for some more
queries.

A friend of mine recently bought a S&W 42 -- that's their lightweight
(Aluminum alloy) .38 special.  Now a few of you mentioned that this gun
won't hold up that well, especially with +P loads and that the steel
would be a better choice.  Well, *I* agree with you, but she insisted on
having something light.  (anyway, the sale is a done deal).

My question is, what would be a good self-defence load for this gun?  +P
is probably best avoided, but... hopefully self-defence won't be a
common thing (!). The salesman recommened some Remington High-Velocity
Multi-ball loads.  These each have 2 70 gr 000 Buck shot in them.  He
said it's a good self-defence load because of the increased area of
effect, but I'm skeptical -- would these things even go through a heavy
leather jacket across the room?
   
Any comments or opinions on:
-self-defence loads for this Aluminum shooter
and/or
-The Remington multi-balls

would be appreciated.

-Seth

__________________________________________________________________________
"We... have no use for adventures.  Nasty disturbing uncomfortable
things!  Make you late for dinner!"  -- B. Baggins 

Seth Eliot,            Dept of Material Science and Engineering
                       Carnegie Mellon Univerity,   Pittsburgh, PA
ARPA    :eliot+@cmu.edu            --------------------------------------
   or    se08+@andrew.cmu.edu
Bitnet:  se08%andrew@cmccvb        
---------------------------------
From: wolfgang@wsrcc.com (Wolfgang S. Rupprecht)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: blanks
Date: 15 Sep 92 13:59:33 GMT
Organization: W S Rupprecht Computer Consulting, Fremont CA

#Is it possible to even have blanks that work the action of an auto?  It
#does not seem possible since, with a recoil operated mechanism, you would
#need the mass of the bullet to create enough backward force.  Can someone
#enlighten me?

The mass of the propellant-produced gas is often a *very* significant
component of the recoil.  I'm told that the recoil produced by the
bullet and the gas is often about the same.  This is why a compensator
that simply vents this gas in an orthogonal direction can reduce the
recoil by roughly half.

-wolfgang
-- 
Wolfgang Rupprecht    wolfgang@wsrcc.com (or) decwrl!wsrcc!wolfgang
Snail Mail:           39469 Gallaudet Drive, Fremont, CA 94538-4511
From: kossack@rice.edu (Jordan M Kossack)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: SKS and Ammo Questions
Date: 7 Sep 92 02:39:04 GMT
Organization: Rice University

In article <9208262132.AA03573@sweetpea.jsc.nasa.gov>, weed@sweetpea.jsc.nasa.gov (daniel weed 283-4162) writes:
|> I have an SKS I enjoy shooting.  But the Gun laws applicable to it 
|> baffle me.  If I were to hunt with it, I would need a 5 round magazine,  
|> instead of the 10 rd. fixed magazine.  So this means I have to remove   
|> the magazine and install a detachable 5 round magazine.  

	Are you sure?  As I recall, the Texas hunting laws state 
   that there is no limit on magazine capacity when hunting except  
   for the (Federal?) limit on shotshells when hunting waterfowl.  
   Send me email amd I'll double-check, but I believe that one can 
   (technically) use a 30rd banana magazine when hunting.  If you 
   are likely to been seen by anti-hunters, however, there's no 
   sense in adding fuel to the fire and antagonizing them by using 
   a <cough><cough> "assault rifle" to "murder bambi."  

	In summation, the 10 round mag should be fine. 

-- 
 Jordan M Kossack  |  Don't Miss Meals 
  kossack@qvi.com  |       Bag Your Diet
  +1 713 240 2073  |            Eat More Fast Food
From: andy@sail.stanford.edu (Andy Freeman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: First Gun Suggestions?
Date: 10 Sep 92 12:28:18 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department,  Stanford University.

In article <1992Sep9.144334.703@nntp.hut.fi> r36110m@kaira.hut.fi (Mika Matti Jalava) writes:
#I have been shooting quite a few different handguns and still cannot
#think a better one than a .22 for target shooting. Is the big bang and
#kick what people look for when shooting? IMHO, the the important
#factors when choosing a handgun (for target shooting purposes) are
#1) accuracy
#2) accuracy again
#3) the price of ammo (you want to shoot a lot, don't you?)
#4) nice if the gun looks good...

#To me, if the only purpose of the handgun is to punch holes in a paper
#target 25 meters (or yards) away (don't know about US, but here that

By those criteria, there's no .22 that will match a decent air gun.
What?  You folks aren't shooting air guns?  Obviously you're
interested in factors other than those listed.

-andy has both air and firearms

--
UUCP:    {arpa gateways, sun, decwrl, uunet, rutgers}!cs.stanford.edu!andy
ARPA:    andy@cs.stanford.edu
From: ole@delab.sintef.no (Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Baby Eagle
Date: 14 Sep 92 14:23:41 GMT
Organization: SINTEF DELAB, Trondheim, Norway.

If I remember correctly, the case head is the sane as the 9mm, this
makes it very simple to convert a 9mm gun to .41 AE.
The bullet diameter is the same as .41 Magnum, I think.
Sorry, I have no loading/performance data.
From: jd@latcs1.lat.oz.au (John Dimogotsis)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Mossberg 500 vs Rem 8
Date: 11 Sep 92 02:51:11 GMT
Organization: Comp Sci, La Trobe Uni, Australia

In article <9209092224.AA19573@SSD.intel.com> hays@ssd.intel.com (Kirk Hays) writes:
#|> On the Ithaca 37, doesn't the fact that the shotgun will go off as you
#|> pump it when the trigger is held down detract from accuracy?   I would
#|> have to try it to be sure, but it seems like having to pull the trigger
#|> for each shot, ala Moss 500 and Rem 870, would lend itself better to 
#|> accuracy.
#Well, there's a technique to be learned - you `stab' your pumping hand at the
#target on the forward stroke.  It takes practice (what doesn't?).
#I've cleanly doubled on flushed doves many times using this technique, out to
#about 30 yards.
#I once tripled, but had the accursed luck of no witnesses, except the dog, who
#wouldn't tell...
#A young woman I once dated, Denise Finegal, who's father owned the local trap
#club, once broke six simultaneously thrown clay targets using this technique,
#while I watched.  She was, if I'm not mistaken, later the Arizona Women's
#Champion.
#Since you don't have to pull the trigger, just slam the forearm back and forth,
#you can achieve cyclic rates approaching (if not exceeding) that of machine guns.

    If a high rate of fire is important, I once saw a hunter with a semi-auto
    (I think) 'Beneli' (spell?) shoot 5 shots in 2 seconds. (which I think was
    the capacity of the shotgun). 
	Does any one know more about such a weapon? And why is it that pump
    action is still more popular I would have thought that technology made
    for very reliable semi-autos.
From: julian%bongo.UUCP@nosc.mil (Julian Macassey)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: AR-15 clones
Date: 14 Sep 92 19:15:41 GMT
Organization: The Hole in the Wall  Hollywood California U.S.A.


In article <9209131756.AA19154@unix.cie.rpi.edu> vanetten@unix.cie.rpi.edu (John S. Van Etten) writes:
#A friend of mine is interested in building an AR-15 type of rifle for use as
#his dedicated militia weapon.  
       Stuff deleted
#In specific, he was leafing through an old issue of SGN and found an
#ad for a company called Nesard out in Illinois that lists kits for $285
#including all parts but a lower receiver (which I can get him for about
#$75).  Has anyone ever dealt with Nesard?  Who makes their parts (are they
#made in the USA)?  Has anyone out there ever assembled one of these kits?
#How do you like it?


	There is a book on building your own AR-15 deviant. It is "The
AR-15/M16 A Practical Guide" By Duncan Long. Published by Paladin
Press Boulder Colorado. Phone (303) 443-7250. ISBN 443-7250. Available
from Ray Riling Arms Books Co. Phone (215) 438-2456.

	There are also manuals put out by the gummint and stripping and
tweaking these guns.


	I have been looking into building myself another AR-15. A
shorty might be fun. So I have compiled a list of suppliers of parts.
Note that some of these suppliers make their own parts, some get them
from other places. It seems that AR-15 parts are "commodity items".
Anyone can now make them. 

Here is a list of names and numbers. Call them for catalogues. Not all
advertise in The Shotgun News.

Lone Star				(512) 681-9280

L.L. Baston				(800) 643-1564

Gun Parts (Numrich Arms)		(914) 679-2417

Rock Island				(309) 944-5739

Sherwood International			(818) 349-7600 (800) 423-5237

Nesard 					(708) 381 -7629

Amherst Arms				(301) 829-9544

L&G Weopanry 				(714) 840-3772

Essential Arms Co 			(318) 566-2230

Quality Parts				(207) 892-2005 (800) 556-7928


	Some of these people have complete sets of parts, some just
sell bits and pieces. 

	Some of these places sell special non standard parts like
chrome lined barrels. Some even sell barrels with evil bayonet lugs
- gasp!

	Note the "lower receiver" or what I called the "action" when I
went to school, is the controlled part of the gun. That means the part
with the serial number. Once you have that, you can build any
barrell length, stock type etc. onto it. You can also build several
uppers and share a receiver to have several guns.

	You can get short barrels - under 16 ins - but you must buy
them with a welded on flash supressor that brings the barrel length up
to the legal maximum. 

	And yes, you can make a fine accurate weopon for less than a
black powder musket. Mind you if you belong to the "Big bullet school
of shooting" nothing beats a nice black power musket. You can go BOOM
every couple of minutes. Execpt on windy days when you can fire faster
because the smoke clears sooner. Just my jibe at the shoulder cannon
shooters.


-- 
Julian Macassey, julian@bongo.info.com  N6ARE@WA6FWI.#SOCAL.CA.USA.NA
742 1/2 North Hayworth Avenue Hollywood CA 90046-7142 voice (213) 653-4495
From: bartb@hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com (Bart Bobbitt)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Latest DCM Leg Match Info
Date: 14 Sep 92 19:16:00 GMT

Some time ago, I posted a note regarding the DCM's upcomming policies for
leg match ammo.  Here's the latest information........

Seems that starting Oct. 1, '92, leg match competitors will have to bring
their own ammunition.  There may be some restrictions regarding rifle ammo,
probably like no tracer or incindiary like NRA rules prohibit.  My contact
for this information told me there may be other restrictions, but probably
not too many as service rifle has to be about full-power to get the rifles
to function.  Service teams are already working on handloads using Sierra
180-gr. Matchkings for use at 600 yards in their M14s.

Pistol ammo is somewhat another situation.  DCM does not want competitors
to use softball, or wadcutter ammo in pistol leg matches.  The bullet must
be a FMJ round nose like the military ball ammo.  There may be a requirement
that competitors use factory ammo in full power.  I don't know what a 50
round box of .45 ACP 230-gr. match ammo costs, but it may be enough to keep
some folks from not buying it; hence, not shooting pistol leg matches if
that ammo is required.  

As more info is available, I'll post it for all to read.
From: tmi@well.sf.ca.us (Peter Kasler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Police Story (was Re: Summary: Concealed Carry...)
Date: 12 Sep 92 13:53:37 GMT
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link

In <1992Sep11.034514.28621@access.digex.com> cherry@access.digex.com (Cherry Poptart) writes:


#                       Every law enforcement
#agency that I am familiar with accounts for 
#every single round that is discharged on duty,
#even if nobody was actually shot. 

#That is a good question; where do you put a 
#warning shot if you want to fire one?  Figure 
#that you have to keep your eye on the perp all
#of the time, and you want to have the gun in 
#some position where you can get it back on the 
#perp quickly...  Yeah, I know, put the warning 
#shot into the perp!  Somehow this doesnt seem 
#like the right answer, at least not in a court
#of law.

	Every law enforcement department or agency the *I* know has a
firm policy prohibiting warning shots!

-- 
                           Peter Alan Kasler
                      Threat Management Institute
                 800 West Napa Street, Sonoma, CA 95476
     Voice: 707-939-0303  =  tmi@well.sf.ca.us  =  Fax: 707-935-1713
From: U16244%uicvm.uic.edu@OHSTVMA.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 2" long 12 gauge shotgun shells
Date: 9 Sep 92 03:16:05 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago

In article <1992Sep2.212132.518@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>,
andy@sail.stanford.edu (Andy Freeman) says:
#
#The folks at Blammo sell them in 00 and #4 buck and a slug.  (The
#slug round is 1 3/4 inches.)
#
#Their phone number is (803) 882-1768.
#
#I've never seen a blammo product, let alone used one; they just
#sent me a catalog.
Oh, great!  Maybe then we can see what the front of the Anatomically
Correct Log looks like, and why that little girl in the commercial
was nearly vomiting.

Seriously, I was wondering about the Blammo company.  I mean the name
sounds sort of logical for an ammunition firm, but it does bring
up some negative stereotypes.
Not to mention the fact that there are kids (and adults) out there
who would annoy them about  new Log products, thanks to the Ren and
Stimpy show.

#
#-andy
#--
#UUCP:    {arpa gateways, sun, decwrl, uunet, rutgers}!cs.stanford.edu!andy
#ARPA:    andy@cs.stanford.edu
From: watt-alan@net.yale.edu (Alan Watt)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: 1993 Second Chance Shoot
Date: 9 Sep 92 03:16:11 GMT
Organization: Yale University, Computing & Information Systems



Once upon a time the Second Chance tournament was limited to law enforcement
officers.  Happily, this has been dropped and is now open to anyone.

The 1993 Second Chance will be held in the second week of June, 1993.
For information packet, call 1-800-253-7090.

Michigan is one of the few states that recognizes your home state's concealed
carry permit, so you'll be all set in case some drug-crazed bowling pins
try to jump you late at night :-).

I missed out on my "ballistic recreational outing" this year, so I'm
gonna try real hard to make Second Chance in 1993.
-- 
  Alan S. Watt
  Yale University			Computing and Information Systems
  Box 2112 Yale Station			(203) 432-6602
  New Haven, CT  06520-2112		Watt-Alan@Yale.Edu


[MODERATOR:  Later this same day, Alan posts to your long-suffering
moderator the following addendum....]

I suppose I should learn to try these things out before I post ... 

If the ever-so-dilligent moderator could paste the following onto the
  original message, it will save rec.guns readers some possible confusion ....

I just called the 1-800-253-7090 number to get my own Second Chance info
packet and the woman who answered the number said the packets probably
won't go out until late Fall -- November or even December.

However, she was happy to take my name&address down.  I suggest you
call now, but save the number in case your packet doesn't show up in time
for Christmas.

	"Drive slow; shoot fast.  Life's precious; ammo's cheap"
-- 
  Alan S. Watt
  Yale University			Computing and Information Systems
  Box 2112 Yale Station			(203) 432-6602
  New Haven, CT  06520-2112		Watt-Alan@Yale.Edu
From: reb@amc.com (Bob Brunjes)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Baby Eagle
Date: 12 Sep 92 13:53:31 GMT
Organization: Applied Microsystems, Redmond, WA

In article <1992Sep10.174411.20876@walter.bellcore.com> bellcore!bae.bae.bellcore.com!wind@uunet.UU.NET (Wind Chen) writes:
#I don't know about the Jericho 941 part, but Baby Eagle does have....
## I was in a sporting goods store last night and saw a new gun- the Baby
## Eagle. Does anyone have any info on this gun? ....
#The Baby Eagle was formerly known as the Jericho 941.  When it was sold
#as the Jericho, it was supplied with both 9mm and .41AE parts.  I don't
#know if this is still true.

Speaking of which, I've never heard any vital statistics on the .41AE round.
What are its bullet diameter, weight, and velocity range?  Does it share case
head dimensions with another round?


Bob Brunjes		Applied Microsystems Corp
			Redmond, WA
			reb@amc.com
From: fist@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Richard Pierson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Dark rust-resistant finishes
Date: 15 Sep 92 13:59:19 GMT
Organization: Bell Communications Research (Bellcore)

In article <199209141809.AA08430@cherokee.advtech.uswest.com>,
pprun@augustit.uswc.uswest.com writes:
|> Pete writes:
|> A while ago I asked about dark rust-resistant gun finishes.  Someone
|> suggested the Robar Company in Phoenix.  Well, I mailed away for
|> their
|> brochure and the finish that was recommended, NP3, was listed in one
|> color only, satin grey.  I just called them and asked what colors
|> NP3
|> is available in, and was told just satin grey.  I was really looking
|> for a charcoal grey to black color of finish.  Does anyone know of a
|> reputable black chrome plater?
|> 
I'm not sure if they do it in black chrome (I have a bike
that is all black chrome-PIA and scratches too easy) but
you might want to try Browns, they advertise in the back
of "Easyriders" and a couple of other moto mags, they are
down in Tenessee. Have you looked at anodizing, I dont know
if it will work but I have seen some nice engine stuff done
this way [starters,carbs,alternators, intake manifolds, headers]

-- 
##########################################################
There are only two types of ships in the NAVY; SUBMARINES 
                 and TARGETS !!!
#1/XS1100LH	#2/10/10/92
Richard Pierson E06584 vnet: [908] 699-6063
Internet: fist@iscp.belcore.com,|| UUNET:uunet!bcr!fist  
#include <std.disclaimer> My opinions are my own!!!
I DONT CARE IF I SOUND CONFUSED, I KNOW WHAT I MEAN !!!
From: thaanuj@prism.cs.orst.edu (John Thaanum)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Shotgun questions
Date: 5 Sep 92 14:57:23 GMT
Organization: Oregon State University, Computer Science Dept.

I feel like I have a fairly thorough understanding of rifles and handguns,
but I'll be the first to admit that I don't know diddley about shotguns.

I recently came into the posession of a 12ga over/under shotgun that used
to belong to my dad.  I shot it a few times when I was little, and I had
my share of problems.  (There oughta be a separate thread on 'Stupid
Shotgun Tricks').

Anyway, now it's mine, and I'd like to learn a little more about it.  
It is in -exceptional- condition.  In fact, if you were visiting your local
sporting goods store and picked this up, it'd probably pass for brand-new.
It has real nice engraving on the receiver section and trigger guard and 
highly polished wood. 

On the left side of the upper barrel it says 'Charles Daly, Ridgefield,
CT.  Superior 12GA', and on the other side it says 'Miroku Firearms mfg Co.
Kochi, Japan.'  

My dad owned lots of very nice guns, and this one was one of the ones he
seemed to be particularly fond of.  A dime won't fit down the top barrel,
but barely will fit down the lower.  I've heard that one can determine 
what kind of choke it has by this test.  I'm not looking for an appraisal
here, as I don't intend to sell it, but I'd like to know if I have a 
quality peice here, or if it deserves to bounce around in the back of my 
truck.

Email or follow-up, heck, I don't care.

Many thanks,


-- 
  ************   John Thaanum	thaanuj@prism.cs.orst.edu   ************ 
  Card carrying member of "Right-Wing Closed-Minded American Scum" (tm) 
  and devoted fan of American musclecars, Atari computers, large caliber
             weapons, and similarly unfashionable persuits.

[MODERATOR:  Well, some folks would say that if it was your daddy's
and he was fond of it, then you got yourself a right high quality 
piece for sure....]
From: johan@beppe4.ericsson.se (Johan Wennerberg)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Reloading equipm.
Date: 7 Sep 92 20:46:13 GMT
Organization: Ericsson


Greetings!

I need a fast answer to my question about loading equipment.

A friend is going to Austin Texas. What are the prises in the area
for an non-progressive loading starter kit. I`m going to use it to
bring down my practising cost for 6,5*55 , 9,3*57 or 7.62*51 nato.

Thank`s

johan@beppe.ericsson.se