From: jamesou@zygote.hsc.usc.edu (James Ou)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: The romantic Tang dynasty (was Re: big lie)
Date: 18 Dec 1992 08:59:23 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: zygote.hsc.usc.edu


In <1gnls4INN6d@liverbug.hsc.usc.edu>, liuyh@vis.toronto.edu (Yuanhui Liu)
writes:

>In article <1gnls4INN6d@liverbug.hsc.usc.edu> jamesou@liverbug.hsc.usc.edu (James Ou) writes:
>(deleted)
>
>>Yes, in a plot to take over the empress position, Wu3 also killed
>>her own new born daughter and blamed the empress as the murderer.
>>What a mother! :-)
>
>true. But than again, lots of Emperors killed their own born,
>involved in murder & treachery in order to gain power or the throne.
>... when the only Women Emperor in Chinese history
>did the same kind of deeds, all the conficus scholars and defenders
>of morality threw the arms in air cry foul and in shock, saying
>it's a great crime, the evilest thing on earth ..., etc, what
>a bunch of hypocrites!  ....

Now, wait a minute, when did Confucians specifically picked out
Wu for blaming and leave out other male emperors? Despite killing
three of her children and many of her government officers, sex
scandals, stealing the emperor position, encouraging "small
reports", etc., Wu3 was considered as a good emperor by
historians, and despite being an excellent emperor, Li Shi-min
was still faulted for killing his brothers. There were plenty of
male emperors condemned by Confucians, Xia4 Jie2, Shang1 Zhou4,
Han4 Huai2 and Ling2 were such examples. In fact, Confucians
condemned all those "Jun1 Bu4 Jun1, Cheng2 Bu4 Cheng2, Fu4 Bu2
Fu4, Zi3 Bu4 Zi3" people.

>>Yes, Zhong1 Zong (not *Yin* Zong) restored the Tang dynasty.
>
>right, i knew that, why did i write Yin Zong, i get it, i got
>it mixed up with the other "Two-timer" Emperor of Ming Dynasty,
>Ming Yin zong .....

Oh, ya, that's right, that Ying Zong guy. He led Ming troops to
fight Wa3 La1 and got captured at Tu3 Mu4 Bao3. After he returned
to China, he killed his chief of staff Yu2 Qian1 who secured the
Ming dynasty for him.

>>was once considering naming her nephew as the successor of the
>>throne, but the advice from Di2 changer her mind. Di2 said, "Is
>>your son or your nephew more closely related to you?"
>>
>and one sentence from Di2 retored the court of Tang.

Which one?

>
>>Yes, the aunt was "Tai4 Ping2 Gong1 Zhu3".
>
>she's a daughter of Wu3 ....Did she get banished to the Eastern
>Capitol Luo4 Yang2 at the end?

No, she was awarded death (Si4 Si3) by the emperor at home. All
her properties were confiscated. It was at that time that people
found out that she was sooooo rich.

>actually , Xuan2 Zong1 should thank her, 'cause she and her allies
>spread the rumor that "according to the stars, there would be
>a sudden change in ruler of the Empire",  it was meant to let Rui4 Zong1
>suspect his son is planing a "Xuan2 Wu3 Men2" style coup, but
>it backfired, Rui4 Zong1 totally believed it, and decided to obey
>the "wish of heaven" and yielded his throne to his son ...
>Princess Tai4 Ping2 was totally totally pissed of course ... :->

You are absolutely right. That was such an interesting story. :-)
That was called "Nong4 Qiao3 Cheng2 Zhuo2" (a good idea turning
out to be a disaster) and was the reason why Tai-ping princess
was planning a coup to oust Xuan2 Zong.

>well, before the Zhang1 brothers, do you know the story
>of "Fu3 Guo2 Da4 Jiang1 Jun1" ex-monk Xue1 Huai2 Yi4?
>he was such a lover wu3 named him "Great General" ;->

Of course, how could I forget that monk? Since he got jealous at
Wu's love affairs, I guess he really loved Wu3. :-)

> Tai4 Zong1 realized the danger of Wu3 and give
>her the choice to become a nun at "Bai2 Ma3 Si4"(white horse temple

It was really a curious story. Astrologists told Li Shi-min that
Venus was seen frequently during the day time (Tai4 Bai2 Zhou1
Jian4) which implied a woman would rise in China (Nuu3 Zhu3
Chang1). Further "calculation" predicated that a woman with the
name Wu3 would turn the Tang dynasty upside down in less than 30
years and killed most of the descendants of the Tang imperial
family. There was a guy whose name was Li3 Jun1 Xian4. His nick-
name (Xiao3 Ming2) was "Wu3[five] Niang2[woman]" and he was from
*Wu3* An1 city. He was a government official at that time. Li
Shi-min suspected that he was the "woman" that was going to ruin
Tang dynasty and had him killed. I don't believe astrological
prophet, but this story really surprised me.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china