From: terra@athena.mit.edu (Terra Incognita)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Holier Than Thow (was: Rich & Michael)
Date: 21 Aug 92 13:24:20 GMT
Organization: MIT - DMSE and Bait

In article <altar.714379685@sfu.ca> altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar) writes:
>>A lot of people try to cut down on flesh in their diets to some extent or
>>another.  Sometimes they call themselves vegetarians but "only have a
>>little fish (or poultry or whatever) now and then"; at other times they
>>themselves are unwillingly labeled vegetarians by those around them.
>>And every time this comes out, they are subjected to rude diatribes.  The
>>net argues not with their sensitivity to other living beings, their desire
>>te have less environmental inpact on this earth, or their wish to live a
>>healthier life, but rather with the fact that they are not 100.00% squeaky
>>clean in their eyes.
>>Which really sucks.  
>
>I really don't know what you are talking about.  Can you substantiate this
>charge? [...]

Hi.  I'd like to come out of the woodwork to back up the original poster
on this issue (the attribution seems to be missing).  Unfortunately, not
all of us have time to maintain archives of the threads on this group;
what I think this person is trying to say is that the judgemental tone
assumed by some of the stricter veg-heads on this group can be very
discouraging to those of us who are less-than-perfect aspiring vegetarians.
Earlier today I saw a message from an Angela Byington -- a farewell
message, as it happens, making the same point.

>
>>Like religious bigots, overrighteous vegetarians have no sympathy and
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>appreciation for people who are trying in their own way to accomplish
>>similar goals.
>
>Here we go again.  RUDE remarks and derisive INSULTS.  I least I am
>here responding to a direct quote.  Can you do the same?  If not,
>then all we have here is an unsubstantiated and unwarranted calumny.
>
I think you're overreacting a wee bit.  Granted, he might have worded
his statement a little more gently, but I wouldn't call it rude, and
in the main I think it's true that some people take on vegetarianism
and veganism as a sort of religious crusade.  People who get *that*
serious about anything do seem to have a tendency to get self-righteous
and intolerant, and vegetarians are no exception.  The strict and rather
intolerant veg-heads who post here probably think that they're taking
the moral/ethical/healthful/environmental high road and are doing those
backsliders among us a service by showing us "the way".  I admire
someone who can be so scrupulous about their diets and lifestyles all
the time (at this time, I still can't imagine life without cheese, sigh),
but I think that in some ways they try to set an impossibly high standard
for the rest of us, particular those neo-vegs or almost-vegs who post
here looking for recipes, nutritional information, and helpful advice.
To many people, the label "vegetarian" *is* synonymous with "weirdo
hippie granola-head [insert your favorite insult]", and the less tolerant
vegetarians who post here probably perpetuate that image in the eyes of
a lot of newbies who start reading this group.  I think that these days
we're hearing a lot of people around us saying "Yeah, I'm cutting way
back on the amount of meat I eat."  Instead of replying "Oh yeah?  Well
that's not good enough!" we'd do better to further "the cause" by replying
"Yeah?  Great!  I've got this recipe you really ought to try..."  As the
old saw goes, you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.
(Or maybe we should be saying "You can catch more carrots with honey than
with vinegar..." ;-> )

[... stuff about MacDougal deleted]
>                                       ted

Incidentally, 	've noticed a rise in complaints about the level
of flamage in this group; but I've found that of the groups that I've
read, this one seems to have a relatively low noise-to-signal ratio.
I'm still reading it, anyway.

--
Terra Incognita                             terra@athena.mit.edu
Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Cambridge, MA    USA
"Work. Worry. Consume. Die. It's a wonderful life." (Lippy)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg