From: avg@rodan.UU.NET (Vadim Antonov)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: CIS on the internet? Why not?
Date: 26 Sep 1992 22:54:18 -0400
Organization: Berkeley Software Design
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net

In article <1a2qk7INNpna@agate.berkeley.edu> muh@physics1 (Yury M. Mukharsky) writes:
>Do you consider EARN as appendix to BITNET?

EARN is not a couple of machines on the end of a loooong line.

>>Show me a public networking service which is LESS expensive.
>>(Public means the one which is available to the general public).
>
>sns.com (510)623-8652. E-mail, at least.

Huh? How do you think how much it would cost to call to US from
Moscow (if you'll get through).

>I have not use them for a long 
>time, so I may be wrong, by I think they also offer some telnet capabilities,
>and some lesser stuff, like finger.

Everything has its cost. A 9600 bps line physically cannot serve
more than 8-10 simultaneous telnet connections. 64Kps (leave alone
T-1/E-1/T-3 stuff) digital circuits are still something unheard of
by Minstry of Communications.

>We are not speaking about general public, are we? We (well, at least I)
>are speaking about research and educational institutions. (That's what
>BITNET serves, isnot it?).

The Russian Ministry of Education now has a program of developing
educational networks by financing high schools's usage of networks
(mostly RELCOM) and purchases of hardware. This way educators
do education and networking specialists do networks. Sure, they
started from poorest provincial universities because they need it
more than others. As for big research institutes complaining
about high costs -- it's just laughable; just compare the cost
of networking vital for their scientific exchange to their
budgets; most of them spend more on electricity, leave alone
equipment. It's mostly a matter of internal bureaucracy and
the actual price has nothing to do with it -- it's equally
hard to get 10000 and 10 millions roubles from their directorates.

>BTW, have not Relcom used goverment-owned
>equipment, at least in the begining (I sincerely do not know, that is
>question, nothing else.)?

No government equipement were used in RELCOM. The initial investment
was done by DEMOS (co-op) and CC of KIAE (at the time the "arendnyi
kollektiv", i.e. their computers//building/etc was leased).

>>Well, ask about prices of UUNET, PSI or EUnet and other organizations
>>selling networking connectivity. Then multiply it by the current exchange
>>rate.
>
>Are you kidding? Wages...

Are you kidding? Aren't the cost of hardware and communications the
same in US and ex-SU (internal communications are cheaper in ex-SU,
though)? What wages have in common with the production costs? If
anybody can do it cheaper than RELCOM they'll get the market,
right?

>Well, I do not know rates here, but year ago Relcom connection cost
>$500 a year with 4mB quota, _incoming_mail_included_. E-mail and usenet
>services were provided.

$500 is the price for foreighn companies -- somehow higher than
internal prices. USENET and internal e-mail weren't included in
those 4Mb; now tell me how are you going to write 4Mb letters?

>Again, I have nothing against Relcom, I just said that it's not a charity,
>but commercial, for-profit organization.

RELCOM was a charity first six months -- later everybody realized
there were basically two choices -- to close up the shop or to start
living by earnings. Charity is not a reliable thing, ya know.

--vadim
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet