From: georgew@hspice.portal.com (George Wu)
Subject: Re: Asian-male stereotyping, how?
Keywords: asian american, media, WHINING!
Organization: Meta - Software
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 19:49:00 GMT

In article <1992Dec12.213830.3854@leland.Stanford.EDU> underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:

>Huh?  The motherland of Oriental-Americans is America; of course, America
>is the most formidable military arsenal in the world.  It is an arsenal
>that is used currently, in most cases, to do "good" around the world.
>
>                Case in point:  Somalia.
>Possible future case in point:  the Republic of Taiwan.
>
>On the other hand, if Mr. Park refers to East-Asian nations, then he
>can't possibly be serious.  China and Korea had really lousy military
>forces in the first half of this century.  Without American help (which
>was repaid by Chinese-cu and Korean-cu troops killing American boys),
>Japan would probably have retained much of China and all of Korea well
>into the 21st century and beyond.
>
>I do agree that Japan had a lethal military force, but it was
>the only East-Asian nation who had one.  It should also be noted that
>Japan was also the only East-Asian nation who modernized and who was willing
>to learn from the West.  Contrast this intelligent approach to the
>ostrich-head-in-the-sand approach used by the Chinese-cu racists.
>
>>, and we were better prepared to come here.
>
>Bull.
>
>Does Mr. Park mean to tell me that Chinese-ge immigrants at the turn of the
>century were better prepared to come here than, say, Mexican, immigrants?
>
>Mr. Park had better not confuse (1) post-1960's Chinese-ge immigration
>and (2) pre-1950's Chinese-ge immigration.  The dudes who worked on the
>railroads and the like at the turn of the century were type #2.  They
>came from the bottom of Chinese-cu society.
>
>Ask this question:  "America at the time was openly hostile to non-Whites.
>Why did Chinese-ge, by the thousands, fled to the USA?  Why did millions
>more want to come?"  Answer:  "The Chinese-cu upper class had raped the
>nation, leaving millions uneducated and dying of starvation, disease, and
>infanticide."  So, it is utterly ridiculous to say that type #2 immigrants
>were "better prepared to come here."
>
><Neil Diamond's "... coming to America, on the boats and on the planes, ...">
>
>Saying that is belittling their struggles and accomplishments.  But I
>will say that many of the type #2 immigrants were sexist and narrow-minded
>jerks (in reference to "A Thousand Pieces of Gold"); they bought and sold
>Chinese-ge women, literally.  These women were forced to stripped naked
>so that the Chinese-ge jerks could assess their "equipment" and than offer
>a suitable price for the merchandise.  This was indeed slavery, and 
>regrettably, the American gov't did nothing to stop it.  (After the
>scene in "A Thousand Pieces of Gold", where a Chinese-ge woman was told
>in Cantonese to strip naked by the "product manager" for the Chinese-ge
>"customer" in San Francisco, I changed the TV channel.  It was too painful
>to watch.  Such baboons.  Such incredible baboons!)
>
> [ . . . ]

     Hopefully, this isn't too late to nip the next round of flamage in the
bud.  I'm a little too busy to keep up with news these days.

-
     Welcome to the Dwight Joe FAQ.  This article is a standard rebuttal to
certain beliefs Dwight Joe routinely expounds in soc.culture.asian.american.
Specifically, Dwight Joe believes Chinese culture intrinsically incorporates
racism, sexism, infanticide, child abuse, and I suppose, other unsavory
characteristics.  For a full example of his beliefs, the reader is referred
to his many postings, one of which drew this response and is therefore
specified in the References: line of the header.

     The motivation behind this canned response is my belief an undue amount
of bandwidth is wasted concerning Dwight Joe's beliefs.  Dwight Joe has shown
a tendency to respond to any topic under discussion by espousing his
anti-Chinese feelings.  This, in turn, spoils many good threads of debate as
many readers of scaa, long tired of reading such nonsense, automatically add
the thread to their kill files.  Such readers are instead urged to add
/underdog/h:j to their kill files.  This may deny Dwight Joe a goal I suspect
he pursues, that of censoring discussion on Chinese culture and government.

     Hence, if you're reading this message, and are considering a followup
merely to rebut Dwight Joe's response, I strongly urge you to reconsider.
We most surely understand the frustration and resentment you're probably
feeling, because we've shared it first-hand over the last few years.
Certainly, if you have something valuable to add, please feel free to do so.
However, I think it quite likely what most of the scaa readership has already
heard it, as we're all too familiar with Dwight Joe and the responses he
draws.  *Please*, under most circumstances, you should not respond to Dwight
Joe at all, only to the original topic under discussion.

     Getting to the rebuttal, it is my contention Dwight Joe's beliefs are
without scientific foundation, and in fact, unmitigated racism or incitement
thereof.  Certainly, some individuals of Chinese society practice some of the
above, just as some members of any society deviate from "normal morality."
However, in the absence of scientific evidence showing Chinese society displays
these features with a greater frequency than other cultural groups, I contend
any civilized person must follow a simple moral principle: innocent until
proven guilty.  Dwight Joe has been repeatedly called upon to substantiate his
claims with references to an independent study.  He has consistently ignored
such calls, and in fact, often cites a single anecdote as proof that an entire
culture incorporates a particular practice.  Without any real evidence, one
should not make such wild accusations.  To do so smacks of racism and bigotry.

     Even if his claims were to be substantiated, which they have not, such
faults would not justify Dwight Joe's calls for the dissolution of Chinese
culture.  All societies have their faults, but such faults do not warrant their
destruction.  American society has been accused of sexism, racism, and
violence.  Yet no one (I know) calls for the abolition of American culture.
Yet Dwight Joe calls for the substitution of Chinese culture with Western
culture.  One does not treat a wart by shooting the man; one treats the wart.

     Another telling habit of Dwight Joe is to classify those who disagree with
him as Chinese.  He himself gets uppity when others claim Dwight Joe is Chinese
himself because (a) he has a Chinese surname, and (b) at least one scaa regular
has met his brother and hence is in a position to know.  Yet, one the basis of
a poster's opinions, Dwight Joe turns about and makes similar claims to ethnic
origin.  Such two-faced behavior demonstrates the hypocrisy and illogic of his
arguments.

     Finally, Dwight Joe uses a particular notation.  For the edification of
the new reader, I explain it here.  The notation involves abbreviating certain
words:

	Chinese-cu: Chinese culture, ie. raised as a Chinese;
	Chinese-ge: Chinese genetically, ie. bearing certain physical features;
	Chinese-ci: Chinese citizenship, ie. of a particular country.

I believe these distinctions, as used by Dwight Joe, are merely camouflage,
for his own mind as well as others.  Dwight Joe uses these terms to deflect
accusations of racism from himself by redefining racism to specifically
exclude his beliefs.  Such denials, however, are worthless, as Dwight Joe's
repeatedly posted opinions make it clear he holds significant predjudice
against Chinese society.
-- 
----
George J Wu,  Superior Maker of Technical Snafus,  georgew@metasw.com
Meta-Software,  1300 White Oaks Road,  Campbell, CA 95008,  (408) 369-5400
Never be the first to believe.  Never be the last to deceive.  ---  Chess
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,alt.politics.clinton