From: ccoprdj@prism.gatech.EDU (Jorge Diaz)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Weapons proficiency system (long)
Date: 26 Jan 93 13:53:18 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

In article <C1FtDw.Iru@umassd.edu> s14539cp@UMASSD.EDU writes:

>>One of the guys in my campaign came up with this proficiency system.

>    One, I am not sure about limiting the levels of spec. that a class can 
>obtain.  In the orient, monks(a priest sub-class/kit) were considered some
>of the best fighters around, many samuria went to monasteries to learn combat
>from acknowledged masters of weapons and combats.  I feel that you either only
>allow fighters to use this or allow every one the possibility to achieve
>grandmasterhood.  Many classes won't even be able to achieve master level in
>a normal campaign life(as I will explain next.)

When I wrote the system, it was my plan to not limit the level of
specialization to which any character could advance.  Like you, I believed that
the rate at which prof slots are accrued would take care of limiting it.
However, my DM and I discussed it, and we felt that placing a limit based on
class would be a good idea.  While it's true that most mages wouldn't live
long enough to train to grandmaster level, we were trying to write a system that
would discourage munchkinism.

I look at the level limits the same way I do armor restrictions for mages or
theives, or weapon restrictions for clerics.

>    Your idea about making some levels harder for mages and thieves seems a 
>good idea at first, but does have one drawback.  A mage by your method could
>only abtain advanced level by 19th at the earliest if he devoted every slot
>to that weapon.  A fighter could be grandmaster by 7th devoting every slot.

No, he could not.  I specify in the beginning that a character can never have
a specialization level greater than his character level.  So, a fighter could
have (at most) Basic specialization in the first level.  In addition, the PH
(2nd Edition) states that no character can "save" proficiency slots before
beginning his first adventure.  All slots must be assigned, and any that are
not are wasted.  So, he cannot train for the second level of specialization
until he attains 3rd level.  The third level at 6th, the fourth at 9th, and
the fifth (Grandmaster) at 12th.  So you see, a fighter could not possibly
reach Grandmaster specialization until he is 12th level, and that's only
if he put every weapon prof slot after his initial 4 into the same weapon.

>Also one implication of this is that you are saying that a mages weapon slot
>is worth less than a fighter's slot.  You may say that a mage is not as good a
>fighter as a Fighter, so this seems reasonable.  But it does take a mage twice
>as long as a fighter to get one, so they should be of the same value.

While I can see your arguement, I cannot agree.  Take, for example, clerics
and rogues.  A cleric is a better fighter than a thief, yet they gain prof
slots at the same rate.  My system tends to balance this by making the thief
pay more for his specialization.

While it's true that the wizard gets slots only once every five levels, it
is a well-known that certain classes (like wizards) don't have the knowledge of
weapons that others do (thus they must limit themselves to easier-to-use
weapons, such as daggers).  I do not think, keeping this in mind, that it is
unreasonable to rule that mages would have to train longer (using more slots)
to learn a weapon.

>    I also have a question:  Do multi-classed individuals get to use this?

Sure, why not?  We have a multi-classed fighter/thief in the group.  He would
gain prof slots as a fighter (because they advance faster in prof slots),
and could train as a fighter.

I myself play a cleric/mage, so I gain prof slots as a cleric, and I can train
as a cleric.

-- 
Jorge Diaz                       | "I want you to remember, Clark... in all
Georgia Institute of Technology  |  the years to come, in your most private
Office of Information Technology |  moments...my hand at your throat.  I want
ccoprdj@prism.gatech.edu         |  you to remember the one man who beat you."
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd