From: ut-emx!shawn@emx.utexas.edu (Shawn Boyd)
Newsgroups: rec.hunting
Subject: Re: Long range hunting
Date: 6 Apr 92 14:20:36 GMT
Article-I.D.: doug.1992Apr6.092037.8788
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin; Austin, Texas
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu


In article <1992Mar31.082907.23366@doug.cae.wisc.edu> 
SCHULTZ@admin1.usask.ca (Robert Schultz) writes:
>Hunters:
>
>	I have been watching the conversation regarding long range
>hunting not really go to far over the past few days (or was it weeks).
>I think we are all getting tied up in the moral/legal issue
>unnecessarily. 

Indeed.  I hunt primarily with a bow, simply because I enjoy the sport
of hunting more that way -- so the ranges I shoot at are all within 50
yards, and (much preferably) within 20 or 30 yards, so I'm not a big
fan of long range shots.  However, I find it hard to believe that any
hunter would publicly chide another hunter for their skill at taking
an animal at any distance.  

I have been similarly ranted at for hunting with a bow, and I really
don't appreciate it.  Hunting is a respectable sport, and any hunter
who can make a clean kill on game with a legal weapon under legal 
circumstances deserves the respect of other hunters.  

>	Most of us [hunters] are aware of the legalities in our own
>hunting areas (or we should). To my knowledge, there are no legal
>limits re: how far one can shoot. And if the hunter is well aware of
>the limitations of their firearm, then all the more [power] to them.

Yes!  Under all circumstances hunters must respect and obey the laws
governing the sport in their area.  As hunters we have a particular 
responsibility to be law abiding and responsible citizens because, as
hunters, we carry and use lethal weapons, and this worries those who
don't.  I understand their point of view, and will go to great lengths
to alleviate their fears.  I will always be responsible and careful
with my bows.  I will NOT trespass or poach, and I will always respect
the point of view of non-hunters who are concerned with my participating
in the sport.

Therefore, I can understand why someone might consider a 1200 yard shot 
unsporting.  As a bowhunter, I can sympathize a bit with that point of 
view.  However, after giving the matter some thought, I have to say that,
if the kill is clean, legal and the animal is used after the kill, then
the hunter who made the shot deserves respect and congratulations, not
repudiation.

>
>	The question I pose is it sporting to shoot an animal at 1200
>or more yards? 

Absolutely!

>I have snuck up on white-tailed deer to within 40 yards and blind-sided
>it with my muzzle loader. 

Congratulations!

>Many of the readers probably use tree stands
>and have 'surprised' the game. The deer doesn't know the difference.

Yes, many hunters do use tree stands, and I am certainly no exception. 
Although hunting deer is not my personal favorite form of hunting, I 
would never belittle a hunter who can take a deer from a tree stand.

In Texas, white tails are so nocturnal that it's very difficult to take 
one any other way than from a tree stand.  A white tail can hear your 
brain think from the next county, it can see through a fog that would 
blind any normal human, and it can smell the soap you used to wash your
socks.  If you can take one from a tree stand, then you have my respect.

>Is there more skill (or should we say luck) involved in getting closer
>to the animal then shooting it from long range? The tradeoff is taking
>the skill of the hunter or woodsman and replacing it with
>technical/mechanical superiority of a long range firearm. If the
>hunter is well trained with their weapon, it really doesn't make a
>difference to the hunted, only to the hunter. Some people relish in
>the ability to sit in a tree for days, others to be able to place a
>shot at 1200 yards, this is not likely to change.

Well said.  The most commonly sought game in Texas is deer, although I
prefer to chase Javelina and Russian boar... ("you chase them in, they 
chase you out!"  ;^) )  This does not mean that I would ever dream of 
of demeaning a hunter who has the patience and skill to wait in a tree
stand in weather that would drive most other people indoors.  Similarly,
I would not appreciate being nagged at for running through prickly pear
and mesquite almost too thick crawl through to arrow a peccary or maybe
a rabbit to roast for dinner.  Hunters need to stick together, and defend
the sport that other people might not understand.

I certainly respect the attitudes and opinions of those who don't believe
I should hunt, and will always be willing to talk and reason with anyone
who [lawfully!] objects to my participation in the sport.  This means that 
issues such as long range shots, or perhaps bowhunting should be dutifully,
responsibly and fully discussed.  For heaven's sake, some guys I know hunt
wild hogs off horse back WITH A KNIFE!  I think the issue of range can be
discounted on that kind of hunt.  Not one of those guys would ever even 
think about complaining about someone taking a 1200 yard shot and making
a clean kill.  In fact, they'd probably ask to see pictures!

>	The biggest problem I have with shooting longe distances is
>the safety issue. How knowledgeable is the hunter of the area
>surrounding the game they are shooting? Is there another hunter a few
>yards on the other side of the game and if the projectile for some
>reason passes through the elk, or if they miss the elk, will the
>projectile possibly hit something or someone else on the other side of
>the intended target? The probability of injury is far greater the
>further the distance, but this is tied to the skill and knowledge of
>the hunter.

I agree sincerely and whole heartedly.  Safety is an issue all hunters
must remain constantly aware of.  Vigilaince in the name of safety cannot 
be over stressed.  As hunters, the weapons we use are absolutely deadly,
and are so by design.  Because of this, hunters MUST be careful to take 
every precaution not to harm themselves, others or their property.  After
giving the matter some consideration, and talking it over with other men
and women I hunt with, I have to say that successfully making a 1200 yard 
shot is not in the least bit unethical (and certainly not illegal in this 
state) as long as the hunter has the technical ability to make the shot 
cleanly and safely. 

I also feel that I should say that I can understand why others might not
feel this way.  While I respect their opinion, I must say that after having 
given the matter some thought, and after some discussion with other hunters,
I believe that if the shot was clean, safe and legal, the hunter who made it 
should be congratulated, not flamed.

>	I can not judge someone shooting at distances which I never
>would be comfortable with [deletions... SB]

Well said.  I have never made a shot that long, but I certainly won't
criticize anyone who has.

>
>Robert Schultz, President
>Saskatchewan Black Powder Association

Shawn Boyd
Austin, Texas
Newsgroups: rec.hunting