HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: surge@en.ecn.purdue.edu (PhD-in-Training)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian,soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Indian/Indian-American communication
Date: 28 Aug 92 22:03:47 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

In article <POPAT.92Aug28132134@image.mit.edu> popat@image.mit.edu (Kris Popat) writes:
>
>I'd like to start a discussion about any barriers that might exist to
>effective verbal communication between people who grew up in India and
>Indian-descended people who grew up in the U.S.
>
>What barriers exist, and how might they be overcome?

First of all, I am an IA of Bengali origin.  I find very little
cultural "common ground" when dealing with non-Bengalis (so I
will limit my disscussion to talking with Bengali IIs).  When I talk
with IIs, I find myself going into this "Indian-mode."  This
not only includes a change in language, but also cultural
thinking (is the best way I can describe it).  Is this true for
any other IAs out there?  I think about things is a totally different
way than an American would.  In fact, in initial meetings, I am sometimes
mistaken to be an II.  Maybe its silly, but I find it irritating to talk
to IIs in English (instead of Bengali).  I feel that English is
pretty inadequate to *really* say what I am thinking.  Sometimes, the
conversation is forced to be in English because of non-bengalis.
Am I the only one like this?

To get back to the main thread...I often will avoid using
as many American idioms and slang words as I can when speaking with
IIs for the fear of not being understood. I feel that people will generally
not interrupt a conversation to ask "What's that mean?" but just
nod their head.  In the reverse situation (me speaking Bengali in
India), I often interrupt the conversation to ask the meaning but
I usually incur some ridicule for it.

I will have to think about this some more...

--Serge
From: samaddar@siemens.com (Sumitro Samaddar)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: Re: Asian indian names
Date: 1 Sep 92 14:22:25 GMT
Reply-To: samaddar@siemens.com

baindur@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Satyen G Baindur) writes:

>Me too ! There seem to be too many young Neel/Neil(s) these days. I'm 
>wondering why those of us who have religious reasons for ruling out 
>names derived explicitly from the Judaeo-Christian tradition like Mark, 
>John, Daniel, and so forth, object also to names like Henry or William
>which, although of European origin, have no overt religious significance. 
                    ^^^^^^^^
A rose by any other name is still ..., but a person's name is part of
his/her identity. By choosing a European name, one indicates an affinity
for a European identity.

Incidentally, how did you classify european names as having or not
having religious significance? Some of the names are those of prominent
Jews/Christians, but none are of any deity as such.

Sumitro
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: mba2@Rosie.UH.EDU (D-Poon)
Subject: Re: desi names
Reply-To: mba2@Rosie.UH.EDU
Organization: University of Houston
Distribution: alt
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 02:15:11 GMT

Hey Ajit I liked the sign off
>	You can run, but you can't hide
but here's another one for you that I picked up off of a tshirt
in a painting I bought recently.  See what you think.  I know
this is out subject topic, but I'm still learning this damn thing.

"Don't bother to run, you'll just die tired"

Hasta,
D-Poon

Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: raghavan@wk21.nas.nasa.gov (Venkatraman Raghavan)
Subject: Asian indian names
Organization: -
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 16:22:00 GMT

Saumyen Guha writes:

>P.S.- I never thought 'purna' a woman. I am yet to meet an woman named
>purna whereas I have lots of male friend called Purna or Purna Chandra.

I have also seen a few Bengali, Hindu, male first names which end with
a 'a', such as Amitava, Apoorba, Debabrata etc.  I was one of the fools 
who thought Purna was a female name until he corrected it. (But you should
have seen his early postings. :-))

A taiwanese friend of mine told me that when he applied for his passport
he randomly chose a christian first name and he has been using it officially 
using it ever since.

Would such a thing be tolerated in the Indian-american circles? Are would
parents be willing to do it for their children? 

(I am not raising the question if it is necessary, probably it is not
necessary at all. This is not a right or wrong issue. Also I am not
talking about inter-cultural marriages )

Regards,
Raghavan
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian,misc.talk.philosophy
From: venu@cirrus.com (Venu Nayar)
Subject: Re: Oh No, Mr. Billlllllllll...........!!!!!!!!
Organization: Cirrus Logic Inc.
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 16:36:11 GMT

In <1992Aug25.125715.13345@menudo.uh.edu> mece1xg@Elroy.UH.EDU (purna)
writes: 

>mass pandemonium!  seas boiling!
>dogs and cats living together!!!

do these phenonmena go together? when you say dogs and cats living together,
i would assume you meant them cohabiting in peace. 
-- 
Venu Nayar			|		Internet: venu@cirrus.com
Cirrus Logic Inc.		|		(510)-226-2100 X3737
Yield to Temptation ... it may not pass your way again.
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: bjag@nwu.edu (Bharathi Jagadeesh)
Subject: Re: Asian indian names
Followup-To: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Organization: Northwestern University
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 19:32:51 GMT

In article <5221@dove.nist.gov>, hira@cme.nist.gov (Ron Hira) wrote:
> 
> In article <1992Aug28.162200.9437@nas.nasa.gov>,
> raghavan@wk21.nas.nasa.gov (Venkatraman Raghavan) writes:
> |>A taiwanese friend of mine told me that when he applied for his passport
> |>he randomly chose a christian first name and he has been using it officially 
> |>using it ever since.
> |>
> |>Would such a thing be tolerated in the Indian-american circles? Are would
> |>parents be willing to do it for their children? 

I've always thought the reason that Chinese-Americans did this was that
Chinese names are _very_ difficult for americans to pronounce at all
correctly, and that some of the names can turn out to say pretty awful
things if even the cadence is wrong in the pronunciation. I think that one
of the characters in the Joy Luck Club (Amy Tan) had a name that changed
form "little flower" to "horrible death" or something like that even if it
was slightly mispronounced.

Americans don't do a great job of pronouncing some Indian names, but there
are some Indian names that are fairly easy for Americans to pronounce and I
think there's been a trend to naming American born Indian-american children
names like that instead of the harder to pronounce ones. 

I personally like the fact that I have an Indian first name and am glad
that my parents didn't change it in order to submit to western mores. I
also plan to give my children Indian names (definitely for the girls,
though I'm stilling waiting for input for the boys). I think it's fairly
easy for a girl to have an unusual name, especially if it's chosen to sound
nice. 
Bharathi Jagadeesh                 bjag@nwu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: tyadav@athena.mit.edu (Tapesh Yadav)
Subject: Re: Friendships
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 23:49:04 GMT

==============================
 alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia) writes:
>Parents should not restrict but advise on what kind of
>friends to look for, what sort of friendship to develop etc.
>That is what all parenting is about ...
>Children on the other end should consult and listen to their parent's point
>of views and make appropriate choices as to who they want to be friends with.

 Furthermore, IMO, parents should also explain "why" of whatever they are
 suggesting. And encourage children to discover reasons behind their advice.
 Just "it is good for you" ain't enough. Explain "how is it good?"

 Help them self-discover fundamentals. Avoid spoon feeding the mind.
 
 Be patient. It is one thing to know "what kind of friends to look for,"
 and quite another thing to actually find the kind of friends one wants. 
 This is so:
	- because, before you can make choices, you need, not only standards, 
	  but also "facts." And collecting facts about fellow human beings 
	  ain't a trivial task. To be without prejudice, bias.... you should 
	  listen and observe and spend time to know a spectrum of
	  personalities.
	- also because, knowing (preaching) values is much, much easier 
	  than practising them. 

>
>As long as they are under 18 years of age, their parent's words/decisions
>should be treated as final because parents are responsible until that age
>for their children. When the children are 18 or have crossed over 18, their 
>words/decisions are final as they are responsible for their lives at that 
>point.

 Do you mean words/decisions 'about friends' are final? I fail to understand
 you. Why should it be final? And what do you mean when you  say "final."
 Please elaborate. Perhaps, with an example.

T.Y.
----
tyadav@athena.mit.edu
Xref: sparky alt.culture.us.asian-indian:569 soc.culture.indian:29689
From: popat@image.mit.edu (Kris Popat)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian,soc.culture.indian
Subject: Indian/Indian-American communication
Date: 28 Aug 92 18:21:34 GMT
Organization: MIT Advanced Television Research Program


Hi Folks,

I'd like to start a discussion about any barriers that might exist to
effective verbal communication between people who grew up in India and
Indian-descended people who grew up in the U.S.

What barriers exist, and how might they be overcome?

Below is an observation I've made to get the discussion going; I'll
chime in with more as the thread develops.  Perhaps we could adopt the
following abbreviations for the purpose of this discussion: II =
Indian-raised; IA = Indian-descended and American-raised.

    Usually there is considerable cultural common ground between II's and
    IA's (at least in the sense that both groups posess a great deal of
    knowledge about the other's primary culture).  Also, understanding of
    pronounciation is usually not a problem, as both groups have been
    sufficiently exposed to each other's pronounciation to get pretty good
    at understanding it.  However, these advantages, along with the
    visual cue of "talking with another Indian," might lead to
    overconfidence in communicating -- members of both groups forget they
    are talking to a person of a different culture, and hence aren't as
    careful or patient in expressing themselves.

Anybody out there want to agree, disagree, elaborate, etc.?


Kris Popat
MIT Rm. E15-355  Cambridge, MA  02139
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: mece1xg@Jane.UH.EDU (purna)
Subject: Re: Asian indian names
Reply-To: mece1xg@Jane.UH.EDU
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 16:13:43 GMT

hi all!

boy, oh boy.  you miss reading the news for one day and *BAM*, there're
a zillion articles to catch up on.  *sigh*........

In article <1992Aug28.162200.9437@nas.nasa.gov>, raghavan@wk21.nas.nasa.gov (Venkatraman Raghavan) writes:
>Saumyen Guha writes:
>
>>P.S.- I never thought 'purna' a woman. I am yet to meet an woman named
>>purna whereas I have lots of male friend called Purna or Purna Chandra.

actually, it is purnachandra (which means full moon, for those who care), 
but it got shortened to purna when i came to the u.s. at the age of 4.  
of course, it probably would have happened anyway as my folks use 'purna'
when talking to/about me.

>
>I have also seen a few Bengali, Hindu, male first names which end with
>a 'a', such as Amitava, Apoorba, Debabrata etc.  I was one of the fools 
>who thought Purna was a female name until he corrected it. (But you should
>have seen his early postings. :-))

what do you mean by that? have i changed? :)

>
>A taiwanese friend of mine told me that when he applied for his passport
>he randomly chose a christian first name and he has been using it officially 
>using it ever since.
>
>Would such a thing be tolerated in the Indian-american circles? Are would
>parents be willing to do it for their children? 
>
>(I am not raising the question if it is necessary, probably it is not
>necessary at all. This is not a right or wrong issue. Also I am not
>talking about inter-cultural marriages )
>
>Regards,
>Raghavan

well, i think people become more assimilated as time goes on.  it's kind
of like a slow-acting poison :)  anyway, my younger brother is named
nischalchandra (still moon, for those who still care), but goes by 'neal'.
of course, my folks picked the name with this idea of having an easy
to pronounce american nickname being extracted from it.  now, 'neal' has
become so much more common that even my folks call him that!!

another example is my cousin pavitra.  my uncle and aunt chose it with
the nickname 'pat' in mind.  in fact, his middle name IS patrick!

then there are the obvious shortenings of names, such as jaitra or jayant
becoming just 'jay'.  however, i am of the fortunate (or maybe that's
unfortunate :)) ones whose name, when it became shortened, is not an
americanized name.

peace,
-purna
From: shiv@tsp.med.umn.edu (Shiv Prasad (Gregerson))
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: Re: Desi-American careers (Was Re: Did anyone attend the IA convention
Date: 3 Sep 92 13:15:49 GMT
Organization: University of Minnesota

In article <bjag-020992183414@owl.ls.nwu.edu> bjag@nwu.edu (Bharathi Jagadeesh) writes:
>> Scientists good?  We're G-R-R-R-R-EAT !!!
>
>Isn't that a satisfying thing to know? 8). I tell people that scientists
>are gods, because I once heard someone on the radio say that people with a
>certain disease  would just have to wait for god to make a miracle, or
>scientist to make a cure.
>
>Bharathi Jagadeesh                 bjag@nwu.edu

Now if they would only pay Gods as much as they do baseball players :-)

Shiv
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: mece1xg@Elroy.UH.EDU (purna)
Subject: Re: Oh No, Mr. Billlllllllll...........!!!!!!!!
Reply-To: mece1xg@Elroy.UH.EDU
Organization: University of Houston
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 12:11:53 GMT

In article <1992Aug25.163611.25017@cirrus.com>, venu@cirrus.com (Venu Nayar) writes:
>In <1992Aug25.125715.13345@menudo.uh.edu> mece1xg@Elroy.UH.EDU (purna)
>writes: 
>
>>mass pandemonium!  seas boiling!
>>dogs and cats living together!!!
>
>do these phenonmena go together? when you say dogs and cats living together,
>i would assume you meant them cohabiting in peace. 

maybe i should clarify some of my humor (boy, doesn't that just ruin
it though :)).

the mr. bill statement referred to an old skit on saturday night live.
the above ("mass pandemonium...") quote comes from the movie ghostbusters.

-purna

p.s. sheesh!  what do you people do?  study?  work?  don't you know
you're supposed to go watch tv and movies all the time?  how else can
you rot your brain and join mainstream america?!  :)

p.p.s.  i KNOW that should start some kind of discussions! :)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: bjag@nwu.edu (Bharathi Jagadeesh)
Subject: Re: Desi-American careers (Was Re: Did anyone attend the IA convention
Followup-To: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Organization: Northwestern University
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 19:13:26 GMT

In article <1992Aug24.145648.12238@news2.cis.umn.edu>, shiv@tsp.med.umn.edu
(Shiv Prasad) wrote:

With all this talk about "Loctors" I just wanted to say that people who go
into law or doctoring don't necessarily do it for the money. (maybe many of
them do, but it's not fair to paint them all with the same brush). Law and
medicine are perfectly honorable professions and at least some people go
into them out of a sincere desire to contribute to the world around them. 

I think it's kind of strange that we talk about becoming a doctor as though
it  were like selling your grandmother for the bucks!

Anyway, do many indian-americans really go into law? I know the information
about doctors -- it's hard to find an indian-american family that doesn't
have someone who's at least considered becoming a doctor, but I don't know
many indian families with lawyers in them. 

Bharathi Jagadeesh                 bjag@nwu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: sguha@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Saumyen Guha)
Subject: Re: Oh No (ok, people, that's enough fanfare ;-))
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 14:06:31 GMT

In article <1992Aug28.121653.15210@midway.uchicago.edu> moh2@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>In article <1992Aug27.221738.24466@Princeton.EDU> sguha@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Saumyen Guha) writes:
>>In article <1992Aug27.204311.25647@nas.nasa.gov> raghavan@wk21.nas.nasa.gov (Venkatraman Raghavan) writes:
>>>
>>(Stuff Deleated)
>>>
>
>But keep in mind that there are many Indians with American names or
>nicknames.  My family is Catholic, so I was baptised with a saint's
>name - two of them, in fact. :-)
        ^^^^^^^^^^^^
 O maan, you are a big saint!! a double personality!!! :^)
BTW, this points to a serious discussion. I observed in my friends,
they sometimes judge a person by name. If the name is american 
sounding, their first conclusion is the person is more american
than Indian and vice versa. Does this happen to you too?
I sort of believe in 'what's in a name'.

 Indians call me by my Indian name,
>Americans by my Americans, and netters et al by my nickname...mass 
>confusion! :-)
>
>So it's understandable that someone might assume Deb was short for 
>Deborah.
>
> - Mary Anne Amirthi Mohanraj (aka Kateri :-)
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 I am completely lost with your name though. First three sounds female
but the last name is male!!!!!!  

>>>Regards,
>>>Raghavan
>>-Saumyen
>-- 
>The autumn leaves are falling like rain.
>Although my neighbors are all barbarians,
>And you, you are a thousand miles away,
>There are always two cups at my table.		 - A T'ang Dynasty poem
           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
           Are they empty???

regards,
-Saumyen

P.S.- I never thought 'purna' a woman. I am yet to meet an woman named
purna whereas I have lots of male friend called Purna or Purna Chandra.
From: mvij@ocf.berkeley.edu (Pendragon)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: Re: Friendships
Date: 4 Sep 1992 21:04:43 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
NNTP-Posting-Host: whirlwind.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Sep4.200823.3594@cbnewsi.cb.att.com> alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia) writes:

>> >As long as they are under 18 years of age, their parent's words/decisions
>> >should be treated as final because parents are responsible until that age
>> >for their children. When the children are 18 or have crossed over 18, their 
>> >words/decisions are final as they are responsible for their lives at that 
>> >point.
>> 
>>  Do you mean words/decisions 'about friends' are final? 
>>  I fail to understand
>>  you. Why should it be final? And what do you mean when you  say "final."
>>  Please elaborate. Perhaps, with an example.
>
>What I mean is that when a youngster under 18 is seeing some people
>who the parents think are not good influence for him/her, then that youngster
>should stop seeing these people. (Parents decision is Final).

This is far too artificial a standard, this magic age of eighteen.

If 'Parents decision is Final,' then maturity is not gained.  Suspension
of free will and learning through experience stunts mental growth.

An absolute discipline of 'parents decision is final' causes a hardline
backlash from children of disobeying much more because all is perceived
as unreasonable; or, in the more timid, it causes some to grow into
clams without protective shells, exposed in the real world.

Finally, and this is key: parents do not always have a good understanding
of the cultural context in which a child's decisions are made.  I can
enumerate many examples of this at leisure (yes, I a lowly student
am once again late for class), but the main point is that 'we know
better' is not necessarily true when the basis for judgment is the
Old World.

>If someone has become a legal adult (]8 or over), that person then has full 
>rights and responsibilities of an adult.
>
>Adults are suppposed to be responsible for their lives and should have the 
>freedom to make choices as they see appropriate. Friends are also chosen.
>An adult's choice of friends may not be to the liking of his/her parents.
>Parents should make their objections known preferably with reasons. If the 
>adult still decides to continue seeing these 'friends', then the parents 
>should yield.  (Adult's decision is Final).

'Adult' is not necessarily 18, 30, or 12.  It is relative.  I am not
arguing for absolute rights for children; family decisions naturally are
made within a give and take context.

Manish
-- 
                                          /-\o /-()  -- -  --   -
   Manish Vij    ::    '89 EX500          \_/ \\/ )  -- -    --
   mvij@ocf.berkeley.edu                       |/_\  -- -  --   - 
                                                \_/.  .  . . ........
From: shiv@htlv.med.umn.edu (Shiv Prasad (Gregerson))
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: Re: Desi-American careers (Was Re: Did anyone attend the IA convention
Date: 31 Aug 92 19:03:32 GMT
Organization: University of Minnesota

In article <bjag-310892131657@owl.ls.nwu.edu> bjag@nwu.edu (Bharathi Jagadeesh) writes:
>> >medicine are perfectly honorable professions and at least some people go
>> >into them out of a sincere desire to contribute to the world around them. 
>> 
>> When you meet one, please let us know :-)
					^^^^^

>
>I hate to tell you this, but as you should have guessed from my vehement
>defense, I'm married to one (that is a lawyer, who went into law out of a
>sincere desire to contribute to the world around him). And--no, he doesn't
>make a lot of money (works for the government) and plans on continuing in
>public interest law. He left a field in which he'd probably making more
>money (he was a physics major as an undergrad) precisely _because_ he
>wanted to contribute more directly to mankind. 
>
>Bharathi Jagadeesh                 bjag@nwu.edu

Geeez, calm down.  I too know trustworthy desi physicians.  But going back
to the original (or one of the earlier) posts, how would you explain that
50% of young Indian-Americans consider a career in Medicine.  I think that
fraction is far too high for it to be a sincere, altruistic interest.  Maybe
if it were 10-20% that would be easier to accept.

Shiv
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: moh2@quads.uchicago.edu (Kateri/Mary Anne)
Subject: Re: SCAA & Caucasian
Reply-To: moh2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 23:48:42 GMT

In article <bjag-280892142624@owl.ls.nwu.edu> bjag@nwu.edu (Bharathi Jagadeesh) writes:
>
>Out of a desire to be funny (and I hope you'll take it this way) what else
>would we do, other than post or e-mail responses: handwrite mail that we
>put postage stamps on and mail to you? hunt down your phone number and call
>you up? find your address and arrive at your doorstep? Shout very loud in
>the hopes that our voices will carry to wherever you are? Send smoke
>signals? Send FAX's? Make videodocumentaries and broadcast them over the
>airwaves?
>
>Have any of these things happened to you  8-)

Actually, yes.

Last summer I posted my address to a alt.callahans, saying I'd be
losing net access and asking people to write.

A few weeks later, a total stranger showed up on my door, saying he
was from callahan's, and asking me to come to the upcoming Gathering.
Since he had driven 2 hrs to get to me, the least I could do was offer
him dinner....and I did end up driving to Ohio with him and a bunch of
other total strangers. :-)  One of the best parties I've been to in my
life.


Totally non-newsgroup-related, but you did ask. :-)

>Bharathi Jagadeesh                 bjag@nwu.edu

- Amirthi
-- 
The autumn leaves are falling like rain.
Although my neighbors are all barbarians,
And you, you are a thousand miles away,
There are always two cups at my table.		 - A T'ang Dynasty poem
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian