HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: davem@uvmark.uucp (Dave Meeks)
Subject: Re: Knicks get Tony Campbell
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 16:22:51 GMT
Organization: Vmark Software, Inc.

In article <1992Sep15.120816.5103@brtph560.bnr.ca> markham@brtph600.bnr.ca (Andrew Markham P205) writes:
>In article <1992Sep15@uvmark.uucp> davem@uvmark.uucp (Dave Meeks) writes:
>>Campbell is not that much of an improvement over the X, but Ro is a very 
>>good addition, and adds another real scoring threat.  
>
>I'm not sold that Campbell is an improvement over X at all.  Granted the 
>Knicks need scoring more than rebounds (who the hell needs rebounds when
>you have Oakley grabbing 700+ and Ewing grabbing 900+), but is Campbell a
>reliable scorer?  I remember him going off on Detroit in the finals a 

He seemed pretty reliable, averaging 20+ppg for most of his career with
the TWolves.  He is pretty one-dimensional, from what I hear.  He does provide
one more person who can score, but his defense may be suspect, again, from
what I hear..

>It's too bad that McDaniel is all about money, 'cause the Knicks were looking
>pretty tough...
>

True, but it is funny...  I found McDaniel to not be about money as much as
about personal pride.  He actually probably LOST money by going to the Celtics,
as the Knicks have made many comments that they were offering more money.
I think McDaniel wanted a longer contract and he wanted to go someplace where
he thought he was wanted.  He seemed to feel like the Knicks were looking 
to replace him and his playing time slowly would diminish.  With the Celtics,
he feels he will get more playing time.  Well, we will see, as he will have
to beat out Gamble and Fox.  The Celtics are not extremely solid at
SF and SG, pretty solid at PG, and their bench is looking better.  They
still need big bodies, if for no other reason than to reduce the minutes
of Parish and McHale...

>-- 
>Andrew W. Markham (markham@bnr.ca)
>Bell Northern Research, Inc.


-- 
David T. Meeks                    ||" We are jigsaw pieces, aligned on the 
VMark Software, Inc.              ||  perimeter edge, 
uvmark!davem@merk.com             ||  interlocked through a missing piece"
davem%uvmark@merk.com             ||" ...This world is totally Fugazi"
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: belo@opal.cs.tu-berlin.de (Bela Voigt)
Subject: Trades
Organization: ZRZ/TU-Berlin
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 12:44:30 GMT

Hi!

Could someone please post the changes of the rosters in the NBA.
(At least the major changes like Person <-> ?)

Here in Germany it's kinda hard to get the latest news...

Thanx in advance

belo.
From: hhg1@gte.com (Hal German)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: New York Knicks
Date: 8 Sep 92 11:59:33 GMT
Followup-To: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Organization: GTE Labs

In article <92248.213054IO20738@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>, IO20738@MAINE.MAINE.EDU
wrote:
> 
> 
>      Are the Knicks going to win it all this year or what?  Take a look


Want to see how the Knick's going to do? Here's my tests:

1. > than 500 on the road especially out west and playing Texas. Always a
   good indicator.
2. Knicks against Boston in Boston Garden. New York hasn't won there in
   regular season for a long while (84?).
3. Knicks against Cleveland . 0-5 last year.
4. Knicks on TNT. Only won one or two of the TNT games. (Jesey was one).
Over the years, they look great until they get on TNT. 
5. Knicks home record. Always good (85%-90%) in winning years.
6. Knicks versus LA in LA. Usually win in good years.
7. Knicks versus Chicago. Can the Knicks win in Chi? 

Knicks signed yet Wilkins, Kiki, X, Davis, Patrick Eddie, Donaldson yet?
Any gone? The net has been void of useful Knicks news.
From: huh@wccf.mit.edu (GENE SIMON HUH)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: The NBA season: when does it start?
Keywords: I know, it's a pretty dumb question
Date: 16 Sep 92 04:04:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: wccf.15SEP199223043823
Organization: MIT - Whitaker College
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

Dear netters and hoopsters,

When does the NBA season begin?

Gene Huh
huh@wccf.mit.edu
From: blip@tartarus.uwa.edu.au (Bryan Lip)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS, PERTH TO HOST '94 WORLD TITLES
Date: 14 Sep 1992 09:42:32 GMT
Organization: The University of Westrn Australia
NNTP-Posting-Host: tartarus.uwa.edu.au

Perth, Australia, aims to host the 1994 world title basketball
championships

An updated version of US basketball's dream team could play for the
world championships in perth in 22 months.

Australia is one of four countries to have made known its intention to
replace war-torn Yugoslavia as host of the 1994 men's world
championship.

If the Australian bid against Canada, Puerto Rico and Brazil is
successful, Perth will host the semi-finals and final (other games in
other australian capital cities) which indubitably will involve the US,
who used NBA talent to regain their superiority at the Olympics and will
no doubt continue the same policy in major international tournaments.

The tournament is set to be played at the Burswood Resort Casino (Hotel)
at the 35,000 seat Burswood Superdome. The Hotel should adequaltely
house all the competitors, plus the world class resort has the largest
Casino in the Southern Hemisphere. Burswood being located adjacent to
Perth's CBD.

Bill Eastman, director of sport for Eventscorp, the State Government
body entrusted with luring major events to Western Australia (such as
the 1990 World Swimming Championships), confirmed yesterday that
Australia would submit a bid by the October 1 deadline.

The International Baskbetball Federation (FIBA) has decided to cash in
on the probable presence of the NBA's best players in the championships.

In its letter inviting replacement bids (Perth has already lodged a bid
for 1998 and was leading in the race - might have its bid forwarded to
the 1994 championships) FIBA stated it would take into account
"additional contributations  ... for the development of basketball."

In other words, the event will probably be sold to whoever is prepared
to pay the most for an NBA all star team. 

Fortunately for Australia, its three rivals are all in the American zone
- and the influential European lobby might baulk at the prospect of the
trans-atlantic power bloc annexing the 1994 championship in addition to
the 1996 Atlanta Olympics and the 1990 titles, which were decided in
Argentina.

Australia has already won the right to stage the 1994 women's titles.


Comments welcome!!!!!

please! (courtest west australian newspaper)

reply here, or contact me privatly on: blip@tartarus.uwa.edu.au


Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: lej@pdn.paradyne.com (Leo James)
Subject: Re: New York Knicks
Organization: AT&T Paradyne, Largo, Florida
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 16:13:57 GMT

In article <AHALL.92Sep8144852@slothrop.fmrco.com> ahall@fmrco.com (Andrew Hall) writes:
>In article <92248.213054IO20738@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> <IO20738@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> writes:
>
>	Are the Knicks going to win it all this year or what?  Take a look
>I hope so but I doubt it.  This is not enough.
>
>   F Xavier McDaniel
>   F Charles Oakley
>   C Patrick Ewing
>   G Mark Jackson
>   G Rolando Blackmon
>	Coming off of the bench they got John Starks, Anthony Mason, Hubert
>   Davis, Greg Anthony and of course the great Kiki "I AM NOT OLD YET!"
>   Vandeghwe.        Predictions-Knick and Bulls in the east(Jordan has
>
>Kiki was released in Ju(ne/ly).

The news we get down here in Tampa is that Stanley Roberts is just stalling
and he will eventualy agree to the three way trade between the Magic, Clip-
pers, and the Knicks.  Stay tuned...
--
+---------------------+-----------------------+-----------------------+
|Leopold E. James     | "A heart, a soul, AND | AT&T Paradyne         |
|ph: (813) 530-8425   |  a mind are terrible  | P.O. Box 2826, LG-132,|
|lej@pdn.paradyne.com |  things to waste."    | Largo, FL 34649 (USA) |
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: paul@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Paul R Krueger)
Subject: Re: Utah Jazz
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 22:54:38 GMT

In article <1992Sep7.034254.8119@leela.cs.orst.edu> chrisda@atlantis.CS.ORST.EDU (David Christensen) writes:
>In article <1992Sep3.110337.25928@hellgate.utah.edu> dpugmire%peruvian.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (David Pugmire) writes:
>>
   <stuff deleted>

>Well, heh heh, that may be the *local* talk, heh heh heh....
>
>Really, haven't you forgotten another WC team?
>
>Think Humphries gives the Jazz a better 3 than say, Porter/Drexler/Strickland,
>KJ/Majerle/Ainge, or Hardaway/Owens/Marciulionis?  [BTW, no knock on Utah's
>guards, but they were clearly outplayed in the WC Finals.]  
>
   I was under the impression that Owens and Majerle were forwards, but I don't
   get to see the west coast teams play all that often. Still, I'd say that
   Utah's guard trio is as good or better than the others mentioned with the
   exception of Golden State's. Jeff Malone is a great scorer and underrated
   defensive player. At least he does a pretty good job on Jordan. Stockton is
   the best PG in basketball and Humphries is another underrated player. In
   Milwaukee he didn't get much notice 'cause the Bucks haven't been very good,
   but he's an above average shooter, good ballhandler, drives to the hole
   well and plays solid defense.
   
   All in all, Utah's guards will be either the best or very close to the    
   best in the West and the entire NBA.

   --salty

>Or did I just bite on some of that ol' flame bait?
>
From: aminkoff@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Tony Minkoff)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: DT II?
Date: 6 Sep 92 19:51:17 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego

If they go back to collegians in '96 instead of assembling DTII,
look for O'Neil, Mourning, Jackson, et. al. to be *really* pissed,
and legitimately so.

Tony
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: byau@jarthur.claremont.edu (Ben Yau)
Subject: Re: Best players by position
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 02:47:42 GMT

>>    Here are my opinions on the five best players at each positions.
>>
>>
>>                     C  1-David Robinson
>>                        2-Patrick Ewing
>>                        3-Hakeem Olajuwon
>>                        4-Shaquile O'Neille
>>                        5-Brad Daugherty

in my opinion , I am not so sure about Shaq...  
his free throw shooting leaves something to be desired, and his game
doesn't seem as multi-dimensional.. given he is a young player though and
will probably learn a lot after time in the NBA, i would rather put him 
on a "POTENTIAL TO BE THE BEST" or something, but not in the top five...
same with Dikembe.  and probably mourning... my list instead may be

Robinson
Olajuwon
Ewing (who I don't think is overrated)
Daugherty
Mutomobo.

Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Organization: University of Maine System
Date: Tuesday, 8 Sep 1992 16:06:16 EDT
From: <IO20738@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: NOW I KNOW!!

     Yes, I now understand that Tim Perry was part of the Barkley
trade.  Don't beat a dead horse!!  Please stop sending me mail regarding
this matter people.  At least untill Kurt Rambis's glasses go into
style!!!!

Brent Sutherland-University of Maine
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: orourke@Csli.Stanford.EDU (Michael O'Rourke)
Subject: Re: Best players by position
Organization: Stanford University CSLI
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 07:18:24 GMT

In <92251.145833IO20738@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> IO20738@MAINE.MAINE.EDU writes:

>    Here are my opinions on the five best players at each positions.

>PG  1-John Stockton               SG  1-Michael Jordan
>    2-Tim Hardaway                    2-Clyde Drexler
>    3-Kevin Johnson                   3-Mitch Richmond
>    4-Derek Harper                    4-Jeff Hornacek
>    5-Mark Price                      5-Reggie Lewis

>                     C  1-David Robinson
>                        2-Patrick Ewing
>                        3-Hakeem Olajuwon
>                        4-Shaquile O'Neille
>                        5-Brad Daugherty

> SF  1-Charles Barkley             PF  1-Karl Malone
>     2-Scottie Pippen                  2-Dennis Rodman
>     3-Chris Mullin                    3-Derrick Coleman
>     4-Dominique Wilkins               4-Larry Johnson
>     5-James Worthy                    5-Kevin Willis

Assuming you mean these lists to include names of the five best at
each position *right now* and not names of the five active players who
have had the best careers, then James Worthy has got to go.  I would
think Danny Manning merits consideration for the fifth spot on the
small forward list based on his performance last season.

orourke@csli.stanford.edu
From: u_nique@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Jerray Wei)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: RICK FOX!!! ROOLZ (Re: X-man to Boston)
Date: 15 Sep 92 19:24:09 GMT
Organization: HAC - Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore

In article <1992Sep15.164106.3847@europa.asd.contel.com> andy@rocky.gte.com (Andrew Busa) writes:
>Screw the stats.  The question here is potential.  You put up stats between
>Fox and Gamble.  First extend them to 48 minutes each and then compare.  And
>second, try comparing Fox's rookie stats with Gamble's rookie stats.  Your
>comparing a veteran to a rookie.  Gamble is as good as he is going to get.
>Fox on the other hand has a much better chance of eventually being the better
>player.  There is no question that everybody from Red to Larry to Dave to
>Chris agree with this as do most other teams because they all want the Gamble
>part of a trade to be upgraded to Fox.

Try the other side of the coin here.  Fox may have the more well rounded
game, but his ability to improve is subjective.  He didn't exactly improve
that much at UNC, and I have nightmares still about the day he shot 5-22
against Kansas.  I don't know what he was thinking.

Fox is probably a better rebounder than Gamble, and from what I've heard, he's
the better defender.  But I doubt he can be the offensive force that Gamble
is.  For the most part, his shot is ok, but he doesn't have much speed to
go with it, either to get the shot off or to drive around a defender.  You
have to give Gamble much of the credit that the Celts have been doing as
well as they have with the big three losing so many man hours.

Try comparing Fox's rookie stats with Gamble's?  Then you say that Gamble is
as good as he's going to get?  Contradictory isn't it?  Gamble is one of the
CBA's biggest success stories.  I think when he got on the court, other
players were moved to ask who he was.  Celts shocked everyone, including
Gamble by getting him.  I remember him saying, "I couldn't believe it.
Suddenly, Larry Bird was sitting beside me, and out on the court was Kareem."
His improvement from nothing to solid player is one of the biggest jumps
I've ever seen.

It's his presence along with the other young Celtic legs that let them
run an up tempo style, and it's his deadeye jumper that lets them keep that
efficiency in the halfcourt set.  Fox could be a solid contributor down the
line, but the way some of you fanatics are talking about him as the next
Bird or something.
From: dorin@ksr.com (Bob Dorin)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: RICK FOX!!! ROOLZ (Re: X-man to Boston)
Date: 15 Sep 92 13:20:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: ksr.15815
Organization: Kendall Square Research Corp.

In article <BuL0os.KBz@ora.com> ellie@ora.com (Ellie Cutler) writes:
>
>RICK FOX!
>
>RICK FOX!!
>
>RICK FOX!!!
>
>Brought to you by the Techies for Fox fan club.
>
> - Ellie (in a momentary adolescent mood)


OK, Ellie, it's time to resort to desperate tactics.  Who's got the
1991-92 stats?  Calling Ed Lor!  I want a full comparison between
Kevin Gamble (does most things well but not EVERYTHING) and Rick Fox
(does nothing particularly well but the fans LOVE him).  C'mon, what
are the numbers?  Not that numbers mean everything, but Fox is
NOTHING!!
--
Name:    Bob Dorin
Company: Kendall Square Research 
Email:   dorin@ksr.com, ksr!dorin
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: ellie@ora.com (Ellie Cutler)
Subject: Re: X-man to Boston
Organization: O'Reilly & Associates, Inc.
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 14:17:54 GMT

In article <1992Sep10.190854.310@viewlogic.com> tim@kudzu.viewlogic.com (Tim Foster) writes:
>
>Just heard news that the Celtics have signed Xavier McDaniel.
>I don't have any specifics about the terms of the contract.  I
>personally think this is a decent pick-up.  However, I would
>have really loved for them to make a deal with the Bullets for
>Gugliotta.
>-- 
My inside source tells me the latest rumor is that Boston has offered
Kevin Gamble and Jon Barry to Washington for Gugliotta.  I don't know
why the Bullets would do this, but hey, sounds good to me!


-- 
        Ellie Cutler

        ellie@ora.com               
        uunet!ora!ellie
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: stsshol@st.unocal.COM (Herb Lam)
Subject: Re: lakers
Keywords: status
Organization: Unocal Corporation
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 18:32:47 GMT

In article adamw@ecst.csuchico.edu (James Adam Ward) writes:
>In article driver8@night.Corp.Sun.COM writes:
>>Hello,
>>
>>Does anyone know the status of the Lakers in regards to roster changes
>>at present?  Any trades or rumors?
>>
>>Al
>>
>
>[run on sentence deleted]...anyway back to the roster:
>
>   it looks like this to me.
>   when Magic is playing his "65" games:
>
>            Magic     Scott
>
>                Divac
>
>            Worthy     Perkins
>
> thats a damn good lineup!!  Its a big Lineup...[other stuff deleted]

Well, as much as I would like to see Magic come back, if he does, I don't
think he should start.  Since Magic will not be playing all the games, I
think having Threatt start will provide more consistency.  It will also
give Threatt an opportunity to play and to get accustomed with his front
court since either Divac, Worthy, and/or Perkins was out at one time or 
another last year.  I think this will help the Lakers since they'll have
more than one guy (Magic) who can dish to these front court guys.  Plus,
think of a second team backcourt of Magic and Peeler.  Magic can really
help a rookie like Peeler.

By the way, anyone heard anything about Gerald Madkins.  I read in the
beginning of summer that he was playing on the Lakers summer league team,
but haven't heard anything since.  Looking at the current Laker roster:

	guards:		Threatt, Scott, Peeler, Cooper
	forwards:	Worthy, Perkins, Green, Campbell 
	centers:	Divac, Edwards

there aren't only two spots left.  If Magic comes back, that will make
five guards and one open spot.  That last open spot may already go to
that forward they signed (can't remember his name) from their summer
league team.  Boy, if Teagle were around, it would sure be crowed.  I
had really hoped to see Madkins make the team.  I only saw a few UCLA
games on TV, but he appeared to me to be the glue that held that team
together.  He was their defensive stopper.  He was a clutch shooter.
And UCLA seemed to play better when he was in.  Of course, like I said,
these are just impressions I got from watch several games on TV.  I 
guess I was hoping he would be the next Michael Cooper for the Lakers.
Maybe he still will.

>thanks
>Adam

Herb

p.s.  Adam, please keep your lines to about 70 chars.  Thanks.


Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: gidi@Hilbert.Stanford.EDU (Gidi Avrahami)
Subject: Re: Knicks get Tony Campbell
Organization: Brotherhood Of Breath
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 20:01:38 GMT

hariharn@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Ramesh Hariharan) writes:
>Can some Timberwolf fan tell us more about Campbell ? Does he fit in to
>the Riley system (fast breaks, physical defense etc.) ? 

Mini-flame: You sound like someone who didn't follow the NBA before 1990.

Answer:  Campbell was player of the year in the CBA when the Lakers
brought him in in midseason 1989.  He stayyed with them through the 1990
finals, where he started at guard after Byron Scott went down.

So he played a year and a half for Pat Riley, playing quite a few
minutes from the bench.  Does this mean he can fit Riley's system?  I
would say yes.


--Gidi
From: u_nique@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Jerray Wei)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Knicks get Tony Campbell
Date: 15 Sep 92 19:13:44 GMT
Organization: HAC - Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore

In article <1992Sep15.120816.5103@brtph560.bnr.ca> markham@brtph600.bnr.ca (Andrew Markham P205) writes:
>
>I'm not sold that Campbell is an improvement over X at all.  Granted the 
>Knicks need scoring more than rebounds (who the hell needs rebounds when
>you have Oakley grabbing 700+ and Ewing grabbing 900+), but is Campbell a
>reliable scorer?  I remember him going off on Detroit in the finals a 
>couple years back, but he only averaged 17ppg for Minnesota and was the
>goto guy there.  He shoots about 46% and is generally a black hole-of-sorts,
>although not as bad as McDaniel.  McDaniel seemed to give the Knicks 
>that rough edge they needed to challenge the Bulls, and since that's who
>everyone must be shooting for, I think the loss of McDaniel and addition
>of Tony isn't a step in the wrong direction.  Pippen in front of McDaniel was 
>a tough matchup, but Pippen will run circles around Campbell and when 
>Pippen runs circles, the Bulls are UNTOUCHA-BULLS. 

X is a much, much better scorer than Campbell ever was.  I think ever since
he left Seattle, the number of shots and his role in the offense has always
been badly defined.  Here's a guy who can shoot 50% and who will clean his
part of the boards.  Ewing, Oakley and Mason did the bulk of the boardwork,
but I think a big reason the Knicks looked so impressive last year is because
the 3 spot wasn't a total rebounding deficiency like it was when Kiki and
Newman were there (the two worst small forward rebounders in history).  When
only two people can rebound, it leaves someone from the opposing team to
crash the boards like a free rebounder, and things aren't anywhere as effective
anymore.
From: hira@cme.nist.gov (Ron Hira)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Trieste gives Gugs one mo day
Date: 8 Sep 92 13:10:07 GMT
Reply-To: hira@cme.nist.gov
Organization: National Institute of Standards and Technology

Well, Gugliotta has been dragging his feet 'round the world it
seems. Trieste, the Italian team interested in Gugs, has given
him an ultimatum to decide on whether or not he'll play for 'em
for $1.1 mil; otherwise, they'll sign Bo Kimble. 

Apparently, he's got offers from Spanish and Greek teams also.

About half of the NBA teams have inquired 'bout Gugs. Is he this
good?

Any other signing news?

Ron

Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: Perry@mte.ncsu.edu (Bill Perry)
Subject: Fantasy leagues?
Organization: Mat. Sci. & Eng., NCSU
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 04:17:55 GMT

	I'm interested in joining a fantasy basketball league, and would like to know
if any will be operating via e-mail.  Are there any openings in present
leagues?  I'm sure others are interested as well.

Bill Perry
From: jdt29225@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Jazzy J )
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Michael Cooper
Keywords: Andrew Moten? Adrian Dantley!
Date: 13 Sep 92 22:16:10 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

bewillia@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Maj. Devon McKnight) writes:
>>	Remember the way he pulled his socks up to his knees?  Looks like
>>	Andrew Moten of Syracuse has already taken notice...
>>

>	I think you mean Lawrence Moten.  Anyway, I seem to remember Adrian
>Dantley wearing his socks in much the same way as well.  I'm not sure if he
>was wearing his socks that way when he entered the league, but if he was, is
>it possible that Coop was taking fashion tips from AD?
>	Just a thought. :-)

	Whoops!  You're right -- it's Lawrence Moten.  Andrew Moten was a
	6'0" guard for Florida from 83-87!!!  Just blame me for growing up
	in SEC land...

	Jazzy J
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  "I am human and I need to be loved,            | Jazzy J                   |
|   just like everybody else does..." - The Smiths| jdt29225@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu | 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------