HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: John R. Levine <johnl@iecc.cambridge.ma.us>
Subject: Fun with punch cards
Organization: I.E.C.C.
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 00:45:26 GMT

So what's the most interested thing you ever did with one punch card?  A
few years back while hanging around the Princeton EE department, we got
into a little contest to see what was the most interesting program we
could fit onto one card.  The target was a 360/20, which had an IPL button
that loaded the first card in the card reader into the address in the
switches (knobs, actually) and started at that address.  Two standard
cards from IBM were "clear memory and load the next card" and a one card
absolute loader for assembler object decks.

The best I did was an "expensive mimeograph" which read all the cards in
the card reader and then printed them out over and over again.  A friend
(Hi, Peter) had one that blew fuses in the printer by using the UCS
buffer.  That wasn't too popular with the powers that were.

It goes without saying that the only way one created one's contest entry
was to punch it by hand on a keypunch using the multi-punch key.

Regards,
John Levine, johnl@iecc.cambridge.ma.us, {spdcc|ima|world}!iecc!johnl
From: jgh1+@pitt.edu (John G Hardie)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Bogosort
Date: 13 Aug 92 16:35:42 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh


I've never been able to come up with a worse algorithm than Bogosort
(and I've tried).  It's incredible.  A quick calculation (assuming that 
there is only ONE elementary operation per element on each pass) we get 
that sorting 50 numbers on a TERAFLOP(!!) machine would take 
3x10^52 seconds.  Thats 10^44 years.  The universe is expected to have 
a lifetime on the order of 10^12-10^15 years.  Clearly we need more 
computer power for this algorithm.

There's gotta be a worse algorithm somewhere but I haven't a clue.

Regards,
John


-- 
jgh1@vm1.cis.pitt.edu

	Give me chastity and continency, but do not give them yet.
Xref: sparky alt.folklore.computers:12861 comp.arch:8989
From: dnichols@ceilidh.beartrack.com (Don Nichols (DoN.))
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.arch
Subject: Re: seeking info on Imlac Composer
Date: 21 Aug 92 03:47:35 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: D and D Data, Vienna Virginia

In article <1992Aug20.182635.3697@cs.cornell.edu> davis@cs.cornell.edu (Jim Davis) writes:
>
>I am looking for information about a program called Composer that used
>to run on an Imlac display system.  The Imlac was a minicomputer which

	[ ... ]

>computer output was to generate tapes for typsetting.
>
>Anyway, I seek info about the Composer program, not the Imlac itself,
>but any lead would be appreciated.

	I don't know whether there is any connection other than similarity
of name, but I have a copy of a program sold by a company called WordMark
called Composer.  If it is at all likely to be related, I'll look up the
manufacturer's address.  This one came with a 3B1 (AT&T UNIX-PC), a
68010-based system from around 1985.  The company also makes (or made)
similar programs for the PC&Clone market.

	The 3B1 has a fairly good (for its time) bit-mapped monochrome
display, and is capable of proportional fonts, but the program was not
capable of properly driving a proportional-spaced font device like a
Laserjet (with the right fonts).  They have another version which they say
can do it.

	They may be a spin-off from the one which you mention.

	Good Luck
		DoN.

P.S.	If you drop me e-mail, check for the address in the .sig, since the
	headers are sometimes munged.

-- 
Donald Nichols (DoN.)     | Voice (Days): (703) 704-2280 (Eves): (703) 938-4564
D&D Data                  |  Email: <dnichols@ceilidh.beartrack.com>
I said it - no one else   |         <nichols@nvl.army.mil>
	--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: rdippold@cancun.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold)
Subject: Re: 9600 baud ignorance??
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 15:03:00 GMT

pdt@mundil.cs.mu.OZ.AU (Peter David THOMPSON) writes:
>I have a proposal: Why not name modems by the most important descriptor of
>all: Transfer rate.

>Example : "My FrobCo modem transfers 8K per second using Zmodem from
>XYZsite."

It all depends on what data you were transferring, if the modem has
any sort of data compression at all.

-- 
Don't get even - get odd!
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.unix.misc
From: sieler@allegro.com (Stan Sieler)
Subject: Re: The need for an assembler (was: Favorite CPU)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 18:17:13 GMT
Organization: Allegro Consultants, Inc., Redwood City, CA
Keywords: Pascal

In article <1992Aug21.000645.10078@news.columbia.edu> lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner) writes:
...
>This is specifically untrue.  PASCAL implements brain-dead goto both 
>syntactically and functionally so much of the code breaks when you attempt
>to use goto for any other than panic exits.  (Stack dirt may be left behind, 
>etc.)
>
>This is partially because of the hidden agenda of the PASCAL promoters of
>the time.  Instead of giving anyone a chance to see if goto is harmful or not,
>they implement a poor goto to justify why it is harmful :-(.

You are confusing an implementation with the definition of the language.
I have never had "stack dirt" in Pascal's I have used, including some on
intrinsically stack-based machines (e.g.: Classic HP3000), as well as on
register based machines (e.g.: PA-RISC based HP3000).

I would be interested in hearing if Wirth had a "hidden agenda", and if so,
what it was.  When I teach about Pascal, I explain the dumb design decisions
(e.g.: numbers instead of names for labels, lack of a "exit" or "return") as
unfortunate consequences of making the task of writing the original compiler
easier.  (E.g.: if your compiler is recursive descent, if it sees a number
at the start of a statement, it *knows* it is a label.  If it is LL/LR/etc,  
you don't have to lookahead to resolve what "foo" is at the start of
a statement: you *know* it can't be a label, and your symbol table tells
you if it is a procedure call or an assignment statement.)

I write a lot of code in Pascal, C, SPL, SPLash!, and PA-RISC assembler.  I
used to write a lot of code in FORTH (I sold a good FORTH interpreter on the
"PC"), LISP, APL, ALGOL.  One thing is clear to me: I want a powerful language
that helps me from making errors, but one which I can override when
necessary.  C lacks the former, standard Pascal lacks the latter (although
HP's Pascal/XL provides both).  One other thing is clear: I want access
to an assembler for critical *small* pieces of code.  I want it all!

One last item: I believe that a HLL that provides pre-defined functions
that *cannot* be written in the HLL itself is providing proof of its
own shortcomings.  This is a simple concept, but has a lot of ramifications
in language design.  As an example, consider the Pascal "writeln" procedure.
It simply is not possible to write a Pascal procedure that takes arbitrary
types and numbers of parameters.  (Pascal/XL comes close, allowing arbitrary
types and (at the programmer's choice) passing hidden (but accessible) 
size information about such parameters, but it lacks the *type* information.)


stan sieler
sieler@allegro.com
From: mrc@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU (Mark Crispin)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: assembler
Date: 18 Aug 92 03:48:30 GMT
Organization: University of Washington
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Mime-Version: 1.0

I'm a little confused by this.  Is is claimed that Richard Stallman isn't an
assembly programmer?  Wrong-o, RMS has written an amazing amount of stuff in
various machines' assemblers.
From: exuhag@exu.ericsson.se (James Hague)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: dinosaur horsepower
Date: 12 Aug 92 13:40:42 GMT
Reply-To: exuhag@exu.ericsson.se
Organization: Ericsson Network Systems, Richardson, TX

Ellyn Sandor writes:
>
>	3) Can we do ring 5 now?

If the problem is as big as you say, definitely not.  The classic example
of this sort of thing is usually given in classes on algorithm analysis.
An O(n!) algorithm with n = 1 million is going to take an astronomical
amount of time.  A million-fold increase in computer speed isn't going to
help it any.  Nobody ever believes this of course.  Everyone thinks that
getting a 50 MHz 486 will solve everything :-)

--
James Hague   
exuhag@exu.ericsson.se
From: ercm20@festival.ed.ac.uk (Sam Wilson)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Non Unix-OS's
Date: 20 Aug 92 12:06:26 GMT

hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath) writes:
>    :
>    :
> IBM had no part in Osborne's downfall.  They went belly-up through sheer,
> gross mismanagement and were probably just this side of a class-action suit
> by the customers when it happened.  Good riddance, IMHO.

There was fine quote in a magazine of the time (I forget which -
probably the UK's PCW) explaining why Adam Osborne was such a great
businessman.  He was losing $100 on each computer sold at the time "but
he was going to make it up on volume."

Sam
Xref: sparky alt.folklore.computers:12850 alt.religion.computers:492
From: ecmtwhk@ccu1.aukuni.ac.nz (Thomas Koenig)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,alt.religion.computers
Subject: Re: The need for an assembler (was: Favorite CPU)
Date: 21 Aug 92 02:06:32 GMT
Followup-To: alt.religion.computers
Organization: University of Auckland, New Zealand.

lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner) writes:

>As explained in the Real Programmers story, the little toy that helps you
>write flow charts was left behind by the previous occupant of the desk; perhaps
>this is part of why he was previous, not present.

Finally! You're a Real Programmer, and the rest of us are just Quiche
Eaters. That explains everything, doesn't it? :-)
-- 
Thomas Koenig, ecmtwhk@ccu1.aukuni.ac.nz, ib09@rz.uni-karlsruhe.de
The joy of engineering is to find a straight line on a double logarithmic
diagram.
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: naddy@rhrk.uni-kl.de (Christian Weisgerber)
Subject: Re: Smoking near a computer
Organization: University of Kaiserslautern, Germany
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 09:54:27 GMT

marques@vax.oxford.ac.uk writes:

> Can cigarette smoke set of smoke detectors?  If so a good reason for not
> smoking in a machine room is to avoid filling the place with halon gas :-).
                                                               ^^^^^
I guess the question is off topic here... anyway, what *is* halon? I
know it's used in fire extinguishers (sp?) but how does it work?
(Feel free to answer by mail ;-)


bye
-- 
Christian 'naddy' Weisgerber, Germany           naddy@rhrk.uni-kl.de
From: newton@iagu.itd.adelaide.edu.au (Mark Newton)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: You know you've been hacking too long...
Date: 20 Aug 92 01:58:30 GMT
Organization: University of Adelaide, South Australia

In article <1992Aug18.224326.1894@research.nj.nec.com> magnasco@research.nj.nec.com (Marcelo Magnasco) writes:
>There is a neat demo (sold at some science museums), a kind of flat-top 
>top; the flat disk at the top is painted in black and white, in concentric
>circles, with some patterning for each sector (70 degrees black, then white,
>etc). As you spin it, the circles `become' colored... I was told it could
>be transmitted through b&w tv and still work, but I haven't seen it. 

I've seen it, and it worked.  Wierd, eh?

   - mark
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------
         'Do not expose your LaserWriter to naked flame...'
newton@iagu.itd.adelaide.edu.au         - Apple LaserWriter Manual
------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.unix.misc
From: lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner)
Subject: Re: The need for an assembler (was: Favorite CPU)
Reply-To: lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 00:54:30 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.163927.13204@oracle.us.oracle.com> mfriedma@uucp (Michael Friedman) writes:
>
>Are you seriously claiming that you go straight from a mental picture
>of the final program to assembly without any intervening design steps?

Are you saying it's *necessary* to go through committee meetings to write
code?

All programs are a collection of small steps, even hll ones.  In the case
of assembler, it's often smaller still steps, sometimes it isn't, so what?

You are proving my point, I blame academia for spreading this nonsense that
panders to mediocrity.  If I understand the problem well enough, I write the
code.  Maybe I write it on listing as I study it, maybe I write it on the
back of an old listing to save paper, or maybe I just type it into my
editor, but in any case, once past the *specification* of the problem (which
is 99% of the effort IMO) I just write the code.

Perhaps the widespread use of more inefficient methods of writing code goes
hand in hand with the inefficiency of the code itself.

I think there will be hll people here who will agree with me about most of
this; code is code; you think of it; you write it; you test and debug it;
you refine it; you repeat cycle 'til done.

As explained in the Real Programmers story, the little toy that helps you
write flow charts was left behind by the previous occupant of the desk; perhaps
this is part of why he was previous, not present.

cjl
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: ap096@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Kevin P. Dahlhausen)
Subject: Things that make you go 'Hmmmm'
Reply-To: ap096@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Kevin P. Dahlhausen)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 11:52:35 GMT




In the August 10th PC-Week there is an article about a 
company named Startup Nexel Corp.   SNC markets upgrade
modules that fit into a 286 socket and give you a 386sx
or a 486slc.  The prices are $449 and $599 respectively.
                              ^^^

So the question is, why would anyone buy an upgrade kludge - er 
module at a cost higher than that for a new motherboard??  (for the
386sx).  Even a new 486 board is only a couple hundred dollars more 
than their 486slc.  

I wish them luck!


A later article reviews an editor for windows called ED by Lifeboat
software.  The review is pretty favorable until the following paragraph:

	In an atypical absence of forethought on the part of the
        company, ED cannot print.  Lifboat officials said this
        deficiency will soon be addressed...

Well, I chuckled......


PS:  What is the difference between a 486dx and the 486slc? Thanks.


Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: markm@bigfoot.sps.mot.com (Mark Monninger)
Subject: Re: what is halt_and_catch_fire?
Originator: root@mogate.sps.mot.com
Reply-To: rapw20@email.sps.mot.com
Organization: SPS
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 15:50:03 GMT

Since we're talking about wierd instructions, the Motorola 6809 has an SEX
instruction (Sign EXtend) and a BRN (BRanch Never) instruction. Honest...
look it up.

I like the Branch-to-here instruction (I don't think the 6809 has it).

Mark
Xref: sparky alt.folklore.computers:12692 comp.human-factors:1804 comp.misc:3263 comp.programming:2366
From: neuhaus@vier.informatik.uni-kl.de (Stephan Neuhaus (HiWi Mattern))
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.human-factors,comp.misc,comp.programming
Subject: Re: Indentation
Date: 18 Aug 92 10:10:48 GMT
Organization: University of Kaiserslautern, Germany

reeuwijk@dutentb.et.tudelft.nl (C. van Reeuwijk) writes:
>More generally, I consider layout-dependent
>semantics revolting.

I agree.  I have worked with Occam, and Occam uses indentation to tell
the scope of a PAR or SEQ construct.  Unfortunately, this propagates
through the whole language.  With the infamous MultiTool (a descendant
of TDS), code development was a pain the a**.

-- 
+------- No .sig? OH, COME ON! --------+-"The derivative snuggles  close to-+
| email:  neuhaus@informatik.uni-kl.de | the function---whatever to snuggle |
| snail mail: Stephan Neuhaus/Hilgard- | means; I'm too old for that"       |
| ring 32/6750 Kaiserslautern/Germany  |                       -- Math Prof |
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: stevev@miser.uoregon.edu (Steve VanDevender)
Subject: Re: Did the 80186 exist?
Organization: University of Oregon Chemistry Stores
	<1992Aug12.101211.3720@kth.se> <Bsvqqt.MDu@rice.edu>
Date: 12 Aug 92 20:39:07

In article <Bsvqqt.MDu@rice.edu> adam@owlnet.rice.edu (Adam
Justin Thornton) writes:

   Say, does anyone know if there are any TSR's available to let you read
   at least raw binary off of, oh, say, 16 sector, 33 track single sided
   disks?

   In other words, is there any way to read the data from an Apple II 
   formatted disk in a PC drive?  Or is this impossible for some reason?

I have heard of products that do this, but it is not easy because
the Apple II uses an entirely different method of data encoding
than the IBM PC disk controller.  I never studied it in detail
but I recall involved 8-bit tokens that each encoded 6 bits of
data, with the patterns chosen for maximum reliability or
something like that.  Because so much of the disk control was
done in software on the Apple II copy protection schemes were
elaborate to the point of perversity.

--
Steve VanDevender 	stevev@greylady.uoregon.edu
"Bipedalism--an unrecognized disease affecting over 99% of the population.
Symptoms include lack of traffic sense, slow rate of travel, and the
classic, easily recognized behavior known as walking."
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: nolan@lurch.twg.com (Nolan Hinshaw)
Subject: Re: Early Programable calculators.
Reply-To: nolan@twg.com
Organization: Somewhere West of Nowhere
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 20:06:22 GMT


In article <1992Aug12.170023.7223@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, aduell@nyx.cs.du.edu (Tony Duell) writes:

|>While agreeing that the HP9100 is an early programmable machine, and worth
|>preserving (I want one!!!!), is it really the second progarammable ever
|>produced.  The Casio AL1000 certainly predated it , and I think the AL2000
|>did also (1968???) although the latter used integrated circuits.
|>-tony 'PDP11 Hacker' Duell
|>ard@siva.bris.ac.uk

OK, folks, let's hear it for the Olivetti P101 desktop engine. I believe that
it predates the HP and the Casio, but I trust that you all will correct me if
I'm in error

--
Nolan Hinshaw
Internet: nolan@twg.com			Dingalingnet: (415)962-7197	
"If you don't know how to do something, you don't know how to do it
 with a computer." David Wittenberg, in Risks Digest 13.70
"Boy, was I in for a dose of reality." Randall K. Abler
"... necrophilia doesn't really hurt anybody."  Rick Gordon
"Well, first of all, your stance is too wide"
From: kdarling@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: what is halt_and_catch_fire?
Date: 20 Aug 92 22:14:56 GMT
Organization: North Carolina State University

Geoff@equinox.gen.nz (Geoff Mccaughan) writes:
>>It is semi-apocryphal.  One undocumented opcode in the MC6800
>>instruction set caused the processor to cease fetching instructions,
>                                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>but to increment its address lines rapidly (every one or two clocks,
>>[...]
>>This feature was really handy for testing the address decode logic in a
>>new 6800 design.  Just burn HCF into every EPROM location, get your 'scope
>                                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>probes ready and let 'er rip.
>
>Isn't this contradictory?

Yep :-)  The 6800's "HCF" instruction (either opcode $9D or $DD) did reads
with the address lines always incrementing, according to the first article
(that I know of) which mentioned this.  December '77 BYTE, I believe.

kevin <kdarling@catt.ncsu.edu>
From: kstr@zeus (Kevin Strietzel)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Non Unix-OS's
Date: 13 Aug 92 02:36:59 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <9207291418.AA17748@thep.lu.se> magnus@THEP.LU.SE (Magnus Olsson) writes:
>Today, the scene is completely different. Apart from VMS VAXen and IBM
>mainframes, every computer bigger than a PC seems to be running Unix
>nowadays. 

>So, I wonder, how many non-Unix OS's are still being used on *new*
>multi-user hardware? Of course, there are a lot of old systems,
>running old OS's. And there are lots of microcomputer OS's, but let's
>exclude most of them by defining "OS", I mean multi-tasking, multi-user
>OS. 

Stratus ships VOS, "Virtual Operating System", or something like that.
It's real: paging, multi-tasking, multi-processor, fault-tolerant,
virtual memory, multi-user, ....

Two years ago, Bull was still shipping GCOS, and upgrading it.  They
were adding NFS to it, so it might still be around.  I think they've
let MULTICS and CP-6 fade away.

Kevin
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: rbe@yrloc.ipsa.reuter.COM (Robert Bernecky)
Subject: Re: The need for an assembler (was: Favori
Reply-To: rbe@yrloc.ipsa.reuter.COM (Robert Bernecky)
Organization: Snake Island Research Inc, Toronto
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 04:49:04 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.074141.21987@news.columbia.edu> lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner) writes:
>In article <1992Aug12.171241.14907@sctc.com> smith@sctc.com (Rick Smith) writes:
>>
>>>There is an issue being overlooked here: assembler programmers do *not*
>>>"optimize" their code, they write it correctly the first time. It doesn't

Right. Just like space shuttle designers never make a booboo. 
Dream on. If you believe that, you never wrote an application of any
significant lifespan or complexity.

>Instruction sets *are* that similar, that's why I take the position against the
>obsolescence notions.

Sure. Now, go write code for a 1401, a Cray X-MP and a CDC 6x00, and
then come back and tell me how similar they are.

Or, an IBM 3090 vector facility after writing code for a scalar 3090...

Robert Bernecky      rbe@yrloc.ipsa.reuter.com  bernecky@itrchq.itrc.on.ca 
Snake Island Research Inc  (416) 368-6944   FAX: (416) 360-4694 
18 Fifth Street, Ward's Island
Toronto, Ontario M5J 2B9 
Canada
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: iisakkil@vipunen.hut.fi (Mika Iisakkila)
Subject: Re: You know you've been hacking too long...
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology
	<1992Aug10.163058.27199@iitmax.iit.edu> <BswnIE.Dpt@world.std.com>
	<1992Aug13.143452.18092@kth.se>
Date: 14 Aug 92 19:25:02

kjell@elixir.e.kth.se (Kjell Rilbe) writes:

>LED to indicate power is on. When he moved the walkman, this little LED
>seemed to kind of float around, like it was not attached at all to the
>walkman!!!!!

I suppose that because the flashes from the fireworks are very short,
your eyes thought that the walkman was immobile (persistence of
vision). Then because the LED is self-illuminating, it seems to move
(like it does), but the walkman appears to stay in place until the
next flash.

As an added bonus, I'll explain the previous phenomenon too :-). If
your glasses are very thick and you're not looking straight through
them, they tend to divert the colours like a prism. Red and blue
reside in the opposite ends of the spectrum and therefore give the
most notable effect. Try it with a thick piece of window glass.

And to add some more screen mystics, I just love the effects you get
with an interlaced display and an electric toothbrush...

--
Segmented Memory Helps Structure Software
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: aduell@nyx.cs.du.edu (Tony Duell)
Subject: Re: Non Unix-OS's
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Keywords: CP/M, MP/M, Onyx, OS-9, Z-80, 6809
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 17:03:59 GMT


Just a quick note - I've seen an Amstrad PCW9512+ which is the same
machine with a standard printer port (I think), and a _3.5"_ floppy. Looks
like the availability of the drives and disks finally made Amstrad switch
(A pity, because a few of my machiens still use the disks, which are
getting dificult to obtain).
-tony 'PDP11 Hacker' Duell
ard@siva.bris.ac.uk

Xref: sparky alt.folklore.computers:12623 alt.3d:871