HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rwojcik@atc.boeing.com (Richard Wojcik,snake)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
Subject: Re: Term Limits Initiative
Date: 6 Nov 92 19:49:19 GMT
Reply-To: rwojcik@atc.boeing.com
Organization: Research & Technology

In article 368@sleepy.UUCP, oster@sleepy.UUCP (Ken Oster) writes:
>Our new Pres-Elect though for some reason is against them....

Right.  He favors spending limits as a means of reducing the power of 
incumbency.  I fail to see how a high turn-over legislature is going to
be any less prone to gridlock than a low turn-over one.  Meanwhile, the
short-lived careers of many political novices will be devoted to finding
out how best to make the transition to private life smoothly.  Lame-duckers
don't have to face the voters again, so outrageous behavior shouldn't carry
quite the stigma that it does for those who have the opportunity to be
reelected.  Those terminal terms will be a great time for voters to see just
what kind of character their elected pol really has.

-----
Disclaimer:  Opinions expressed above are not those of my employer.

    Rick Wojcik   (rwojcik@boeing.com)   Seattle, WA
Xref: sparky seattle.general:3649 pnw.motss:77
From: donn@brat.wa.com (Donn Pedro)
Newsgroups: seattle.general,pnw.motss
Subject: Re: Equal Rights=Special Rights? (was Re: Post election... Prop. 9)
Date: 10 Nov 92 22:43:13 GMT
Article-I.D.: brat.1316
Organization: Tandemonium, Kent, WA

In article <BxGp7J.2pD@plato.ds.boeing.com> prang@ssc-bee.UUCP (Ron Wanttaja) writes:
:
:This is NOT one buzzsaw I wanted to step into, but....
:
:Unfortunately, the laws sometimes do exactly that... grant special rights.
:
:Case in point:  My best friend was demoted from his job; one he gained
:through the competitive process.  The reason?  He isn't handicapped.

[good story deleted]

My comment?  It's just as wrong.  Ok?



         Donn Pedro ....................a.k.a. donn@brat.wa.com
	
	       "You talk the talk.  Do you walk the walk?"

		    There are no ordinary moments.
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: monaghan@cac.washington.edu (Tracy Monaghan )
Subject: Re: Term Limits Initiative
Organization: UW Computing
Distribution: seattle
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 17:10:20 GMT

In article <4113@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> vanzwol@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Ted Van Zwol) writes:
>In article <1992Nov5.155934.13423@u.washington.edu> monaghan@cac.washington.edu (Tracy Monaghan ) writes:
>>representative.  The constitution was amended to limit the president to
>>two terms.  To limit US senator and representative terms would also take
>>an amendment to the constitution.  It is possible for a state to limits
>>its (state) elected officials.  Of course, in theory, the voters can
>>always limit the terms of their representatives by voting them out of office.
>
>
>I don't normally throw in my two bits on political issues...but, coming from
>this beautiful state and wanting our representatives to be heard just as
>strongly as the rest...
>
>I think that term limits on a national level may be just the thing.  But, I
>have strong concern having some states implementing limits and others not.
>I fear that the good ole boy network will keep working among the non-limited
>incumbents.  I fear that having a new wipper-snapper coming into the seat
>every six years may not be heard over the other well-established representatives
>whom may wish to pass bills that are not in Washington's interest.  If you have
>a great representative for the state doing his/her job well and protecting our
>interests, I don't see why at the state level he/she should be limited.  We
>can always vote them out of office!
>
>I find it ironic that in the 14 states that passed the initiative, most of them
>re-elected the incumbants.  It's the "we need to limit these bastards; but ours
>is doing OK" syndrome.  I don't think that all people realize that when they're
>voting for these limits, it's at the state level affecting only those that they
>can re-elect or not next time.
>
>With the current system and the new addition of term limits in this state, we
>are going to need reps that are stronger leaders, more articulate and 
>persuasive than ever if we wish to have our voice heard above the old timers.
>
>-- 
>Ted C Van Zwol                           |    Genius does what it must,
>uucp:      {...!}uunet!bcstec!vanzwol    |    Talent does what it can.
>internet:  vanzwol@bcstec.boeing.com     |                  -Emerson


Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: il@bambam.u.washington.edu (Il Hwan Oh)
Subject: Re: Panama Deception showing, Nov 15
Keywords: video
Reply-To: iho@cac.washington.edu
Organization: University of Washington, Tacoma
Distribution: seattle
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 20:03:45 GMT

malnar@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Joe Malnar) writes:
> il@bambam.u.washington.edu (Il Hwan Oh) writes:

> >My point (although I didn't say it) was that the people who made the
> >movie are guilty of the same thing they're accusing the US government
> >of.  They've slanted the coverage to serve their ends.  It was fairly
> 
> >Once again, I agree with most of what the movie said, and I think that
> >it said a lot of worthwhile things.  I just didn't care for the
> >one-sidedness of the whole thing.
> 
> They did this intentionally.  The government/media had presented one side,
> so the movie makers presented another.  To balance things out, so to speak.

I know that a lot of people think this way, but it doesn't sit well with
me.  I guess what I'm saying is, "I don't believe that two wrongs make
a right."

-- 
Il Hwan Oh                              | "You live and learn.
Computer Facilities Manager             |   At any rate, you live."
University of Washington, Tacoma        |            -- Douglas Adams
iho@cac.washington.edu                  | 
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: franz@cs.washington.edu (Franz G. Amador)
Subject: XC ski cabins in Methow Valley
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, U. of Washington, Seattle
Distribution: seattle
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 21:09:12 GMT

My wife and I are interested in doing a little cross-country skiing in
the Methow Valley sometime within a couple of weeks of Christmas.
I've received a little information on cabins from the Chamber of
Commerce, but I'm hoping that some of you will have first-hand
experience you'd be willing to share.

Has anybody stayed at any of these places?

  Early Winters Cabins
  Westar Lodge & Retreat
  Wolf Ridge Resort
  Sun Mountain Lodge

We are beginning/low-intermediate XC skiers, are not flush with cash,
and don't mind things being a little rustic.

Thanks,

Franz Amador
franz@cs.washington.edu
{rutgers,cornell,ucsd,ubc-cs,tektronix}!uw-beaver!june!franz
Newsgroups: seattle.general,pnw.general
From: dxxb@hardy.u.washington.edu (David Barts)
Newsgroups: seattle.general,pnw.motss
Subject: Re: Wanted: Post election comments on Prop. 9
Date: 9 Nov 92 04:33:24 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Nov9.043324.10856
Organization: University of Washington

dcb@kopachuk.uucp (David Breneman) writes:

>In article <1313@brat.wa.com> donn@brat.wa.com (Donn Pedro) writes:

>(In reference to a possible Proposition 9 clone in Washington...)
>Tons O' Deletions...

>Why wouldn't such a law be unconstitutional?  If you are denying
>people equal protection under the law, that sounds just about as
>unconstitutional as it gets.
> [edited]

You're quite right of course -- such a law WOULD be unconstitutional.
And any court in its right mind SHOULD declare it as such and nullify
said law.

However, looking back at US history, one can see a number of cases
where the pesky old US Constitution was simply ignored (or, more
commonly, twisted legal jargon was used to rationalize the
unconstitutional law or action).

Eventually, such things usually get overturned, but in the intervening
years a lot of harm can end up getting done to a lot of peoples'
personal liberties.

If you want examples, here's three:

1.  The system of poll taxes and Jim Crow laws that denied Blacks the
    right to vote, in direct violation of a constitutional amendment
    guaranteeing them this right.

2.  The suppression of free speech by labor organizers in the early
    part of this century (if you stood on a soap box on a street corner
    and said things deemed offensive by the local business establishment,
    you would be liable to be arrested and thrown in jail).

3.  Political oppression of anarchists after the assassination of
    William McKinley.

Unfortunately, the US Constitution is just a piece of paper with
words written on it, and if enough people (with enough power) want
to ignore it or rationalize their way around it with twisted logic,
they can.

-- 
David Barts  N5JRN                      UW Civil Engineering, FX-10
davidb@ce.washington.edu                Seattle, WA  98195
            Driving is a privilege, not a right.
      Having breathable air is a right, not a privilege.
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: il@bambam.u.washington.edu (Il Hwan Oh)
Subject: Re: Panama Deception showing, Nov 15
Keywords: video
Reply-To: iho@cac.washington.edu
Organization: University of Washington, Tacoma
Distribution: seattle
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 23:38:04 GMT

bigstar@hardy.u.washington.edu (J Paschel) writes:
> il@bambam.u.washington.edu (Il Hwan Oh) writes:

> >Let's talk about this movie a bit.  I'll buy most of what the movie was
> >saying.  I just had a problem with the uniformly negative tone toward
> >the U.S. government and Bush.  I mean, there must have been something
> >they did that wasn't reprehensible.  Even the press couldn't do anything
> >right, as far as this movie was concerned.

> Perhaps the movie was highly critical of the press....do you actually
> believe much of what you see in the American media ? About the only
> factual thing I got from media coverage on the revolution in Panama was
> that US troops were occupying the place.  Beyond that, who really knows
> what the hell was actually going on ?

My point (although I didn't say it) was that the people who made the
movie are guilty of the same thing they're accusing the US government
of.  They've slanted the coverage to serve their ends.  It was fairly
obvious that they interviewed only the people who were directly harmed
by the invasion.  If the US government carefully crafting the coverage
by the US media to insure a favorable public reaction is wrong, then
the opposite is just as wrong.

Once again, I agree with most of what the movie said, and I think that
it said a lot of worthwhile things.  I just didn't care for the
one-sidedness of the whole thing.

-- 
Il Hwan Oh                              | "You live and learn.
Computer Facilities Manager             |   At any rate, you live."
University of Washington, Tacoma        |            -- Douglas Adams
iho@cac.washington.edu                  | 
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: malnar@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Joe Malnar)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
Subject: Re: Panama Deception showing, Nov 15
Keywords: video
Date: 11 Nov 92 18:10:28 GMT
Distribution: seattle
Organization: Boeing Computer Services, Seattle

In <1992Nov10.233804.29617@u.washington.edu> il@bambam.u.washington.edu (Il Hwan Oh) writes:

>My point (although I didn't say it) was that the people who made the
>movie are guilty of the same thing they're accusing the US government
>of.  They've slanted the coverage to serve their ends.  It was fairly

>Once again, I agree with most of what the movie said, and I think that
>it said a lot of worthwhile things.  I just didn't care for the
>one-sidedness of the whole thing.

They did this intentionally.  The government/media had presented one side,
so the movie makers presented another.  To balance things out, so to speak.
-- 
Joe Malnar   malnar@bcstec.boeing.com   or   ...!uunet!bcstec!malnar
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: dbj@cs.washington.edu (Dave Johnson)
Subject: Re: Info wanted on kids' parties
Keywords: kids, parties
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, U. of Washington, Seattle
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 19:05:10 GMT

In article <1992Nov10.163212.8754@tc.fluke.COM> msquared@tc.fluke.COM (Mark Mullins) writes:
>I'm looking for suggestions for a party for seven-year old twin boys.  We're
>already considering the "usual" (Chuck E Cheese, Discovery Zone, trashing
>our house, etc.), but would like to hear any suggestions that have worked for
>others.  Has anybody used a magician or a clown that was really great?  

Try Diana the Dominatrix.  You won't have any problems with
the boys trashing the house--they'll be VERY well behaved.

:-)  (for the humor-impaired)

-- 
  Dave Johnson

"You're not too smart, are you?  I like that in a man."
    --Kathleen Turner in Body Heat
From: witters@tc.fluke.COM (John Witters)
Subject: Re: Music info
Keywords: music
Organization: John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, WA
Distribution: seattle
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 16:25:27 GMT

In article <1992Nov12.024930.25414@u.washington.edu> mdef@carson.u.washington.edu (Mark Defranza) writes:
>
>Just wondering if there is an on-line listing of information regarding
>events in seattle such as concerts, shows, exhibits, etc.  It would really
>help in iedentifying what is going on...

I'm not aware of anything that's on-line.  There is a local program guide you
can subscribe to, however.  It's called "Soundings Northwest," and it costs
about $12.00 per year.  It includes concerts, plays, showings at art
galleries, program listings for KING FM and KUOW, and other events like
ballets, modern dance, or performance art.  As you can see, the content is
oriented towards "High Culture."  You won't find out where Mudhoney or
Soundgarten are playing from this guide.  I don't have their address, but the
phone book says their phone number is 682-9277.

For folk music I'd recommend either the Seattle Folklore Society (782-0505) or
Victory Music (sorry, I don't have their number here.  E-mail me if you want
it.)

For Rock Music, you might take a look at "The Rocket" magazine (728-7625.)
My impression of the magazine from the few times I've picked it up is that it
concentrates more on gossip about the local rock scene, and doesn't have much
information about upcoming concerts.

The Friday Seattle Times has an "Entertainment Section" (they call it
"Tempo,")  but it doesn't list a lot of events.  It seems to concentrate
mostly on movie times.

If you find a comprehensive on-line listing, let us know!  I've missed quite a
few good concerts by relying on the Seattle Times to tell me about them.  (The
Seattle Times Motto:  Yesterday's News, Sometime Tomorrow or the Next Day.)

-John
-- 
    *  *  *		John Witters			voice:	(206) 356-5274
  *  \      *		John Fluke Mfg. Co. Inc.
 *    \      *		P.O.B. 9090 M/S 241F		fax:	(206) 356-5116
*   DRIVING   *		Everett, Washington  98206-9090	     or (206) 356-5174
 *      \    *
  *      \  *		domain:	witters@tc.fluke.COM
    *  *  *		ARPA:	fluke!witters@uw-beaver.ARPA
			uucp:	{uunet,sun,microsoft,uw-beaver}!fluke!witters
Hi! I'm a .signature virus!  Add me to your .signature and join in the fun!
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: crystal@glia.biostr.washington.edu (Crystal)
Subject: Re: Hi.
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 14:31:31 GMT

In <1992Nov9.071816.16561@u.washington.edu> tzs@carson.u.washington.edu (Tim Smith) writes:

>crystal@glia.biostr.washington.edu (Crystal) writes:
>>The CITY of California runs from San Diego to just north of San Francisco.
>>The whole area is nothing but suburbs of Los Angeles.  Wall to wall concrete
>>and freeway.  If it weren't for the freeway signs you'd never know where one
>>city left off and another began.

>I take it you've never driven up I-5 from LA to Sacremento?  Do it with
>your window open in the summer, and you will certainly notice that there
>are places where there is no city.  Don't do this unless you like the
>smell of cow shit, though!

>This is a great place to drive fast: I-5 is basically a straight line
>for most of this (with about two places where you actually have to
>steer).  Just lash your steering wheel to something so it won't move,
>put a brink on the gas pedal, and take a nap for a few hours -- you'll
>be fine. :-)  Average speed is about 75 on that stretch.

Yep!  I've driven it - ONCE...and will never do it again.  Two of us had to
switch driving duties every ten minutes or so because the straightness 
was putting us both to sleep (dangerous highway hypnosis - there is one curve 
in the road up ahead, but you never reach it *arrggghh!!!*).  I've warned
many a person away from that route.  The highway is virtually devoid of cars
- and for good reason!  It's dangerous...
>>
>>Which leads me to another observation:
>>
>[animals visible from road in or near city]

>It's sometimes surprising where animals show up.  I was driving one night
>in the suburbs of Cupertino, in Silicon Valley, and came across ten or
>fifteen deer crossing the road!  I have no idea where they came from
>or where they were going, and no one I talked to believed me when I
>told them about this.

>--Tim Smith

Sorry, Tim...I don't believe you either... ;>
 
Crystal
  ;>
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: dcb@kopachuk.uucp (David Breneman)
Subject: Re: Term Limits Initiative
Organization: Tacoma Screw Products, Inc.
Distribution: seattle
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 01:12:51 GMT

In article <4105@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> robs@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Robert Sipe) writes:
>
>   I have a question re: this issue too.  If it is constitutional for 
>the presidential position why would it be unconstitutional for other
>elections?  I know Foley claims that it would be and Arizona has ruled
>that it is.  Seems like a contridiction!
>
The term limit on the President (2 1/2 terms) is now part of the
US Constitution.  A state can't pass a law that supercedes the
US Constitution, so such a *state* law could be challenged on
constitutional grounds, since it imposes restrictions on a process
(election of people to national office) layed out in the US Constitution.
I wouldn't be smugly confident that this law *will* or *will not* be
overturned.  The courts nowadays are just too unpredictable.  The
only thing certain is that it will be challenged.

-- 
David Breneman     Sys Admin, Tacoma Screw Products, Inc. |  ____  ____  ____
dcb@tacoma.uucp           |   SCREWIE the TSP CLOWN sez-  |   /   /___  /___/ 
 ..!uunet!tacoma!dcb      | "Zinc & cadmium plating stops |  /   ____/ / 
CompuServe: 75760,1232    |  rust & acts as a lubricant!" |
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: monaghan@cac.washington.edu (Tracy Monaghan )
Subject: Re: Term Limits Initiative
Organization: UW Computing
Distribution: seattle
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 15:59:34 GMT

In article <4105@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> robs@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Robert Sipe) writes:
>In article <4095@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> hall@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Robert J. Hall) writes:
>>With the (presumed) passage of the Washington Term Limits initiative, I was
>>wondering about the prospects of this law being overturned in the courts?
>>
>>Anybody have a clue?
>>
>>-- 
>> Bob Hall                   |
>> Boeing Computer Services   |  Behind every dark cloud,
>> root@chicken.ca.boeing.com |  there's a Seattle Skyline.
>
>   I have a question re: this issue too.  If it is constitutional for 
>the presidential position why would it be unconstitutional for other
>elections?  I know Foley claims that it would be and Arizona has ruled
>that it is.  Seems like a contridiction!

The US constitution sets the term lengths for president, senator, and
representative.  The constitution was amended to limit the president to
two terms.  To limit US senator and representative terms would also take
an amendment to the constitution.  It is possible for a state to limits
its (state) elected officials.  Of course, in theory, the voters can
always limit the terms of their representatives by voting them out of office.

Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: mdef@carson.u.washington.edu (Mark Defranza)
Subject: Music info
Keywords: music
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Distribution: seattle
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 02:49:30 GMT


Just wondering if there is an on-line listing of information regarding
events in seattle such as concerts, shows, exhibits, etc.  It would really
help in iedentifying what is going on...

E-mail or post...


Thanks, 

Mark



Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: rosebud@carson.u.washington.edu (June Bug)
Subject: Re: Wanted: Post election comments on Prop. 9
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 01:07:54 GMT

das@voodoo.boeing.com (Deb Schwartz) writes:

jstaffe@uswnvg.com (Jarrod Staffen) writes:

>>Very well put, Christopher! You're absolutely right on target.  I get so
>>frustrated when the ignorant try to tell us that they know for a fact
>>that homosexuality is premeditated or decided.  I am very close to a number
>>of homosexuals, including my own brother, ang have discussed the issue of
>>choice with them.  Most of them start out hating themselves because of the
>>attraction they feel towards their own gender, while being told left and
>>right that such feelings are perverse.  My brother tried to be heterosexual,
>>but it was as repulsive to him as I think it would be for me to be gay.

>A question for those who think sexuality is a 'choice':  this is a society 
>where, as Jarrod says, homosexuals are constantly being told that such
>feelings are perverse, where they can't walk down the street holding the hand
>of the person they love because they'll probably be harassed or worse, where
>they can't marry the person they love, where they've often been denied housing
>and jobs if they're open about who they are.  I ask those of you who think
>that sexuality is a choice, why in the world do you think that anyone would
>voluntarily make such a choice?

I am not one of those who think that sexual preference is a choice, but I
was recently discussing (arguing about) this with someone who does, and she
said that making the choice to be homosexual in such an anti-homosexual
society *proves* how perverse and wrong they are.  In other words, they
are such perverted people that in addition to deciding to become
homosexual, they are deciding to do it in a society which will abuse them 
for their"choice", which is just another facet of their perversion.  
"only a really unnatural person would choose to do something that 
would have such a negative impact on them, societally," basically sums
up her position.  *sigh*

>Debbie Schwartz // das@voodoo.ca.boeing.com  // or uunet!bcstec!voodoo!das 
>                 "Hatred is not a family value"

Clarica Grove
rosebud@u.washington.edu