HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: aya@sol.rtsg.mot.com (Arkady Altman)
Subject: Re: Gracie
Reply-To: aya@csg06.rtsg.mot.com
Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 12:29:49 GMT

Does anybody know Gracie school in Chicago area?

-- 


Thanks,
            / / /
         / / / / /       Arkady Y. Altman   
          / / /       aya@csg06.rtsg.mot.com
      _/_/_  /_/_/
            /
          _/
From: reid@metis.tti.com (Reid Kneeland)
Subject: Re: Fighting against animals?
Organization: Citicorp TTI
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 19:19:50 GMT

In article <77694@apple.apple.COM> mikel@Apple.COM (Mikel Evins) writes:

>>>to have been caught sleeping by a hungry tiger. If you have
>>>ever seen a figurine of a Chinese fellow smacking a tiger
>>>in the head with his fist in a Chinatown shop, this is Wu Sung
>>
>>This sounds rather implausible to me.  
>
>Just in case anybody thinks I find the Wu Sung story plausible:
>I don't.

I should have learned by now- ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS put the smiley on a
joke posting.  No matter how obvious you think it is that you're just
kidding ("I shot an elephant in my gi"), a non-zero number of people
will not get it and will post serious responses.

My posting was a jab at Mikel for his misplaced modifier.  It had no
other significance.  Just a joke.  I'm sorry I even brought it up.

=====================================================================
Reid Kneeland
reid@tti.com
Transaction Technology Inc., Santa Monica, CA, USA (310) 450-9111 x2499
The opinions expressed above do not necessarily etc etc...

Never trust a man who can count to 1,023 on his fingers.
From: scheid@danzan.EBay.Sun.COM (David Scheid)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Realism through kata?
Date: 26 Jan 93 17:20:15 GMT
Reply-To: scheid@danzan.EBay.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: danzan.ebay.sun.com

In article 4617@unisql.UUCP, wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) writes:
>In article <1jpfg0INN6j4@male.EBay.Sun.COM> scheid@danzan.EBay.Sun.COM writes:
>
>>this realism is best developed through various Kata.
>
>	I don't understan how kata can be said to have anything to do
>wiht realism.  Especially judo kata, which are extremely formal and
>stylized.

Those were fundamental Kata's.  There are many Kata's which have
been developed within and without the Kodokan which are not on the
syllabus. The one's which are there are to provide a basics for 
individuals developing their own methods for practice. 

As combat is serious business, safety and proper attitude are important
to proper practice. Thus, certain forms are necessary to minimize 
the risk of injury. 

In AAU Jujutsu, there are always new Kata being demonstrated in combative
sequence. This is not adverse to anything taught by Kano or Kodokan.

---
Dave Scheid - All Disclaimers Apply
From: lindberg@zonker.ph.utexas.edu (David Lindberg)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Need to contact these people
Date: 22 Jan 93 14:40:00 GMT
Organization: Institute for Fusion Studies, UT-Austin


    I need to get in contact with a couple of martial arts masters in or near
the Bay Area.  I have only partial knownledge of them, and any help would be
appreciated.  They are:

    1)  A Chinese grandmaster (Chang?) how has a compound/training area near
San Fransisco.  This grandmaster originally trained at the Wu-dang (?)
Shaolin temple, is in his 90's, may not be in the country at the moment, and
practices an art with a name that sounds similiar to the Japanese art of
Iaido.

    2)  A Wing-Chun grandmaster named Raya (spelling?).  I got the impression
that she may be 70-80-90 years old.

    3)  Someone associated with a Buddhist temple in Chinatown of San
Fransisco.  The temple name may be something like Day-Ung-Sa.  In particular,
a nun in her 30's who might know White Crane.

    I need to pass on to these people that Sifu Richard Hernandez has 
passed away.

                               David Lindberg
                               david@fusion.ph.utexas.edu
From: farris@ruhets.rutgers.edu (Lorenzo Farris)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Fights and blackbelt confidence
Date: 23 Jan 93 19:51:32 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

In article <C19zr4.4xA@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>, shulick@navajo.ucs.indiana.edu (Sam Hulick) writes:
[lots of stuff deleted]

I do hope your view of all this changes when you indeed become a
blackbelt. ;-)

You may come to a point, when ego is less of a concern, that you don't
take anything such a person like Dork says or does personally. Dork is
the unfortunate product of many influences, and it is unlikely he has
ever actually thought for himself. Like 90% of all people. Only in
some cases, they become bullies or politicians. ;-)

Your concern seems to be with pride and putting him in his place. Why
do you place so much importance on him? Do you want to get back at the
sky because you got a cold from standing in the rain? He can't help
what he does, and lives in his own little mental hell as a result of
it. 

I hope you come to realize that a more intelligent approach is to
defend yourself, WHEN THERE IS NO OTHER RECOURSE. It sounds silly to a
lot of people, but have a little compassion for Dork, too.

			yours in ahimsa,
				Lorenzo
-- 
Happiness is just a                     ******************************
remembrance away.                       *  Lorenzo Farris            *
                                        *  farris@ruhets.rutgers.edu *
                                        ******************************
Xref: sparky rec.martial-arts:17438 rec.org.sca:18219 rec.sport.fencing:925
From: shick@europa.eng.gtefsd.com (steve hick)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts,rec.org.sca,rec.sport.fencing
Subject: Spanish/Moorish Swordsmanship (was Re: More European History)
Date: 26 Jan 93 10:31:22 GMT
Article-I.D.: hick.9301261031.AA22252
Reply-To: shick@europa.eng.gtefsd.com (steve hick)
Organization: GTE Contel Federal Systems
X-Newsreader: InterCon TCP/Connect II 1.1b31

In article <1993Jan23.021134.1@camins.camosun.bc.ca>, 
comptec92024@camins.camosun.bc.ca writes:

> 
> In article <1jo880$li@agate.berkeley.edu>, actize@garnet.berkeley.edu 
> writes: 
> >Stuff removed> 
> > People in Spain were very good swordsman.  Toledo steel made the 
> > finest swords. We can see some remnants of this art today in Bull-
> > Fighting.  (stuff removed) 

The Spanish were the most feared swordsmen in Europe, although some saw their 
style as mystical claptrap (mostly historians of fence, eg Castle) .  There 
is significant amounts of material extant on what they did, all of it (so 
far) untranslated.  They were very analytical, almost mystically so, and 
divided the combat area into circles with associated arcs, tangents, cords 
and diameters.  Movment was dictated as being along these lines for purposes 
of attack and defense. The standard en garde was very high, feet narrowly 
spaced, hand high in between carte and tierce, point directed towards the 
opponents face.

> 
> And just to get an argument going, you could say that spanish sword and 
> knive work is seen in Arnis. (mind you Spanish sword work was likely 
> heavily influenced by Moorish style) 
> 

I am in the process of tracing down a 14th century Moorish manual of arms, 
more on this later.

ST
From: dcthomas@.vnet.ibm.com (Dave Thomas)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 13:29:37 EST
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: The Meaning Behind Style Names Summary:
Organization: IBM
News-Software: UReply 3.1
            <1993Jan22.154720.678@bnr.ca>

In <1993Jan22.154720.678@bnr.ca> Mark Holden writes:
>In article <1993Jan21.233755.24108@pixel.kodak.com>, nlund@kodak.com writes:
>|> (Actually, via email, I have been informed of at least one karate-do
>|> that seems to be a full combat system, with additional philosophical
>|> trimmings added, so the statement I made above about not being "aware
>|> of _any_" can now be presumed to be obsolete.  Isn't the net wonderful?)
>
>Which style of karate-do would this be?
>
>Mark
>
Well, excuse my spelling, but that sounds like Kyokushinkai. I believe
this is Mas Oyama's system. I think they ran a tournament
called the "Sabaki Challenge". A single elimination fighting
tournament where anything goes. The last guy standing won.
The video that I saw was pretty hardcore. That year it was
somewhere in Colorado.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Dave Thomas        dcthomas@vnet.ibm.com             My views, not IBM's
"ikken hitatsu"    JKA Shotokan / Myoshinkan Aikido  "one cut, one life"
From: actize@garnet.berkeley.edu ()
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Judo: Which Throw
Date: 27 Jan 1993 17:13:09 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: ba
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

"Uki comes in to take a normal right grip on your left lapel.  You take a step
forward on your left foot so that your left leg is alongside his right while
putting your left arm *over* his.  At the same time you throw your extended
right arm right under his left armpit and get very close.  To summarise - you
are very close, your left arm is over his arm and low, the top of your right
arm is under his armpit and high, and your left leg is alongside his right.  To
complete the throw (this oviously happens all at once) cartwheel your arms,
left arm down and right arm up at the same time turning your body to the left
by moving your right foot forward. This effectively picks up Uki and spins him
backwards, you may fall on him too.  Your left leg acts as a kind of pivot.

		[snip..]

Can anyone tell me what kind of throw it is."

This looks like a modification of Okuri-Ashi-Harai to me.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: jbuhl@daimi.aau.dk (Jesper Buhl)
Subject: Judo-picture #4 posted ...
Organization: DAIMI: Computer Science Department, Aarhus University, Denmark
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 93 18:20:56 GMT

- this time in jpeg-format. If it bothers anyone, let me know.
BTW, it's a tomoe-nage.

/jb

From: rterry@hpcupt1.cup.hp.com (Ray Terry)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1993 16:15:46 GMT
Subject: Re: The Meaning Behind Style Names
Organization: Hewlett Packard, Cupertino
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts

> [practice of Korean martial arts were banned
>by the Japanese during this period because it fostered nationalistic 
>sedition]

But, of course we know that didn't stop them from practicing their arts.  Just
as it didn't stop Funakoshi from learning martial arts in Okinawa during the
Japanese occupation (see his autobiography).  We know that Taekyon and Subak
were practiced during the Japanese occupation, they just did it in secret.

As we've discussed before, what happens is that most of the martial arts 
styles first define Kung Fu/TaeKwonDo/Karate-Do/Hapkido/etc as "martial art"
and then go on to try to explain when the martial arts first began.  Thus,
they claim, Kung Fu/TKD/Karate-Do/Hapkido/etc began at that time, i.e. 
TaeKwonDo is martial arts, martial arts began ummm thousand years ago, thus
TaeKwonDo (being practiced under a different name) began ummm thousand 
years ago. 

Ray
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: groome@oxmyx.lab (J. Andrew Groome)
Subject: Re: Fighting against animals?
Reply-To: groome@oxmyx.lab
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 15:47:23 GMT

In article 11476@alw.nih.gov, drury@helix.nih.gov (Richard Drury) writes:
>shulick@cineret.ucs.indiana.edu (Sam Hulick) writes:
>>
>>I read somewhere that if you open your hand into a star shape (fingers
>>outstretched) and hold it front of a dog's face, it frightens them and
>>brings them under control.  Is this true?  It was some book written by a
>>group of monks (in the US) whose monastary's goal is the betterment
>>between dog & man.  Very good book, but this hand thing sounds a little
>>like BS.  Anyone confirm this?
>
>Sure, in fact, you can easily confirm it yourself.  Try making
>your hand look like a little star and stick it in the face of
>the nearest hostile canine.  Please do post the results so we can
>all learn from your experience.  I read somewhere that typing
>with your toes is slower, but certainly possible.  ;-), sort of.
>--
>Richard A. Drury                    National Institutes of Health
>drury@helix.nih.gov                 31/B3C27, Bethesda, MD, USA

This is how Crocodile Dundee developed the _two_ finger hypnotize the
bull waza.  Trial & error.

---
J. Andrew Groome (GTE Federal Systems): Andy.Groome@oasis.gtefsd.com
Voice: (703) 818-5478
Fax:   (703) 818-4541
From: dcthomas@.vnet.ibm.com (Dave Thomas)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 13:37:04 EST
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Van Damme studies.....?
Organization: IBM
News-Software: UReply 3.1
            <C19Fxp.1GF@news.udel.edu>

In article <C1329w.D58@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> shulick@navajo.ucs.indiana.edu writes:

>Is Van Damme's art a 'bullshit' art, or is it real?  If so, which art is
>it thta he portrays in his movies?  It's very odd.

Van Damme was on Arsenio about a year ago and said his
original dan was in Shotokan. Shotokan doesn't attract the crowds who
foam at the mouth for aerial spin-kicks, so his "style" in the movies
appears to be whatever sells tix.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Dave Thomas        dcthomas@vnet.ibm.com             My views, not IBM's
"ikken hitatsu"    JKA Shotokan / Myoshinkan Aikido  "one cut, one life"
From: sog@craycos.com (Steve Gombosi)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: I don't know.
Date: 27 Jan 93 00:14:34 GMT
Organization: Cray Computer Corporation

In article <1k3pdpINNb0t@master.cs.rose-hulman.edu> acharya@HYDRA.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU writes:
>dsmythe@netcom.com (Dave Smythe):
>
>Did anyone happen to save a summary of one of the last few flamewars on
>this topic?  Holy mackerel!  Let's not flounder into this one again.
>Ignoring it would be the bass option.  I'll resume my perch, now...
>
>	just when you thought it safe to go back into the water, 
>	crabby dave decides to poisson it....
>	
>	i shouldn't have posted this, but i do like to balance the scales...

It just gills me the way some folks will try to skate by, posting stuff
like this to the grouper. No a manta friendly advice will get them to stop
snapper-ing at the opportunity or change their tuna. Salmon-fortunate newbie
will read this and eel think that we can't deal with moray serious
topics.  I thank Cod we don't do this very often...

Steve
From: farris@ruhets.rutgers.edu (Lorenzo Farris)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: SEALs
Date: 28 Jan 93 16:58:40 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

there seems to be a bit of bad feelings running around on this topic.
I think the truth lies somewhere between the two extremes. Allowances
must certainly be made for police officers, given the nature of what
they are *supposed* to be doing. 

On the other hand, I have enough friends who have been harassed by
policemen for no reason other than looking different *than they
oughta* that it is easy to see where there are a number of officers
who treat their position as an extension of their 'manhood'.

To quote a line from "Running Scared", what other job would they pay
you to shoot at people?

I think officers with this point of view need to remember their
purpose is to serve and protect *all* citizens, not just white males
in fancy neighborhoods.

This might go a fair way toward lightening up the attitude of people
like the Police-Basher towards the police.

Now, before the flaming starts, remember, I did not include *all*
police in this category, as I know some quite nice ones. Just the ones
with an attitude problem.
-- 
Happiness is just a                     ******************************
remembrance away.                       *  Lorenzo Farris            *
                                        *  farris@ruhets.rutgers.edu *
                                        ******************************
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: psc@sei.cmu.edu (Peter Capell)
Subject: Carradine
Organization: Software Engineering Institute
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 08:58:45 EST


>19-Jan-93 J.R.Wood@lut.ac.uk	Re: Kung Fu (the TV show)
>Carradine is a MA but don't know what style. Bruce Lee was never 
>considered for the role in Kung Fu though he helped to design the series, and 
>that's what pissed him off! Carradine does not rate Bruce Lee at all and 
>considers him an actor that does Martial Arts.

This is funny.  Carradine is shit, sorry.  His T'ai Chi video makes me want to
cry because I can't fathom why this aging hippy would want to humiliate
himself so deeply at this point in his life.  


Also interesting--because of prejudice, exposure to other things, etc. etc., I
had some to dismiss Bruce Lee as a movie star myself, until I met Barry
Perrino.  Although I don't abide by his absolute worship of the man, I do
understand his enthusiasm.  Barry met Bruce Lee and studied with one of Lee's
original students.  If Barry's instruction is anything like Bruce Lee, then 
my admiration for Lee is totally rekindled.  

Carradine is a big fake though--no kidding.
From: gatenby@v2.cgu.mcc.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Wing Chun Trapping, Boxing, etc.
Date: 27 Jan 93 14:57:21 GMT
Organization: Manchester Computing Centre CGU


actize@sag4.ssl.berkeley.edu writes:
>Any type of move on the street which traps the opponent's left arm at
>the expense of your right arm, assuming you're both right handed, is
>just plain STUPID.  I really don't know how to put it any other way.
>Your typical opponent on the street will be much more effective with
>his right than his left.  You want to trap his right with your left.

I'm not replying to this as a Wing Chun person, but as a JuJitsu person.

By "trapping" I understand "imobilising in a lock of some kind" - if they're
standing on their tiptoes cos my right arm is wrapped around their left arm,
applying pressure up onto the elbow, then I just hit them wherever I want to
with my left hand while they're bothering themselves with the pain coming from
their arm - this is FAR from stupid - this effective.

I suspect that people from short-contact MAs (karate, TKD etc) may find this
somewhat alien, but that doesn't detract from its effectiveness.
(Short-contact/long-contact refers to the time you spend in physical contact
with your opponent during the fight - JJ is long-contact)

LPAF
Neil

 Neil Gatenby, Computer Graphics Unit,	| Email: gatenby@uk.ac.mcc.cgu.v2
 University of Manchester,		| Tel: (+44)61 275 6095
 Manchester M13 9PL, England.		| Fax: (+44)61 275 6040
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 	     Strive to Survive, Causing Least Suffering Possible
From: robinson@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Robinson)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Mortal danger?
Date: 24 Jan 1993 22:55:31 GMT
Organization: Institute of Cognitive Studies, U.C. Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: cogsci.berkeley.edu

In article <1993Jan24.080311.12042@craycos.com> sog@craycos.com (Steve Gombosi) writes:
>Violence is a very serious business - it's not a game. Anytime you 
>allow a situation to get to that point you are staring death in the face.
>Very few things in this world are worth dying for.
>Save your energy for those that are.
[...]
>He's not saying "don't go out and waste people for grins", he's saying 
>"violence is only justified when you're in real, imminent danger and there's
>no other way out."  Someone "hassling" you does not constitute
>mortal danger. You have the option of defusing the situation by not playing
>the hassler's game. Take that option.

This certainly is the party line, and not without considerable justification.

However, I can not avoid thinking from time to time of the warrior culture from
which a number of our present day arts descended.  Unless I've been grossly 
misled, dishonor was widely considered a fate worse than death, and the idea
of "mortal insult" not at all alien in feudal Japan.

Amongst our own forebears, the idea of "live free or die" had a certain 
amount of appeal.  And in other circles, jihad is a compelling reason to 
endanger life and limb.

So, while it goes without saying that violence should only be entered in 
grave extreme, just what exactly constitutes circumstances of sufficient 
gravity seems to be open for interpretation.



-- 
  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Michael Robinson                          UUCP:   ucbvax!cogsci!robinson
                                        INTERNET: robinson@cogsci.berkeley.edu
From: wag5@quads.uchicago.edu (john peter wagner)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Car Jack
Date: 25 Jan 93 15:45:28 GMT
Reply-To: wag5@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago

In article <1993Jan25.135006.6545@aber.ac.uk> azw@aber.ac.uk (Andrew Michael Woodward) writes:
>
>Came into this halfway thru! What is carjacking. How do I do it? It sounds
>lucrative for someone on a British research salary.

	Be sure you use an American gun. You know how worthless all that
British stuff is ever since the brain drain started. Yes, a good American
gun should do just about right.

			John
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: tac@cs.brown.edu (Ted A. Camus)
Subject: Re: pedigree vs. pragmatism.
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 20:32:11 GMT


Stovall@f88.n106.z1.fidonet.org (Stovall) writes:
>(deleted stuff concerning Daito Ryu's alleged links to Hapkido)
>
>Who cares? The legitimacy of a martial art is a function of its
>practitioners. Everyone is aware that Hapkido is a relatively new
>martial art that has stolen many of its techniques from other sources.
>In a confrontation, pedigree is less important than pragmatism.

   
    There are several problems with this, largely connected with most
    people's misconceptions that it's "what works" that is important.

    One, the traditional Japanese martial ryu were not concerned with
    "what works in the street", or "can I use today what I learned 
    today", they were concerned with perfecting technique.  Why?
    Because the fellow you're facing across the field *has* been 
    perfecting his technqiue, so if you haven't, you won't be passing
    on your short-sighted ideas about martial training to anyone.
    The ryu evolves after several centuries of battle experience.

    For many of today's martial arts, mere adequacy is sufficient for
    most situations people will find them in.  You simply don't fight
    for your life everyday against other people who do the same.  For 
    those to whom MA is merely a hobby, I guess that's fine for them.
    But these little details can be lost or ignored as inconsequential
    by instructors.  An Olympic athelete would never give up a .1% 
    advantage over an opponent.  The advantage of a traditional ryu
    is that due to their formalism, these details tend not to get 
    lost, at least not as much --

    (I guess I'm really addressing the last sentence and not the 
    Hapkido origins issue which I have addressed previously) --

      -- Ted --

==========================================================
  Ted Camus                          Box 1910 CS Dept 
  tac@cs.brown.edu                   Brown University
  tac@browncs.BITNET                 Providence, RI 02912
From: jmeyers@ecst.csuchico.edu (Jeff Meyers)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: MARTIAL FARTS!? - Japanese Names?
Date: 22 Jan 93 00:10:44 GMT
Organization: California State University, Chico
NNTP-Posting-Host: psycho.ecst.csuchico.edu

In article <1993Jan19.023724.11382@fuug.fi> an1840@anon.penet.fi writes:
>that's right!! the most embarrassing thing is when youre doing kicks or
>something, and you let one rip!!! honestly, how can i avoid this? ..kick
>kick kick fart kick...

Now we need to research the ancient Japanese words / kanji for this!

I always liked: Kiai Gyaku


-- 
============================================================================
| Jeff Meyers      |  jmeyers@ecst.csuchico.edu      | 39x43'N  121x48'W   |
| Chico, Ca 95926  |  KD6DIS@KE6LW.#NOCAL.CA.USA.NA  | Grid: CN80-CM99 ??  |
============================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts