HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jasonr@syma.sussex.ac.uk (Jason F Ralph)
Subject: Re: Davis Mechanics (was Re: John Woods Campbell)
Organization: University of Sussex
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 16:15:16 GMT

Jack Choquette (jackc@vermont.mti.sgi.com) wrote:
:
: Is the
: effect of gravaty instantaneous or is it also limited by the speed
: of light?
:

Well, if you can answer that one, you should book your flight to Sweden
straight away!

(To give a simple answer: Yes.)

(The gravitational interaction is mediated by 'gravitons' which are spin
2 massless particles which do indeed travel at the speed of light...
which gives rise to the inverse square law for gravitation interactions
amongst other things... according to the currently 'trendy' quantum
field theories of gravity.)

(However, these theories cannot be renormalised, i.e. they don't add up
properly, and are so full of holes (black, white or otherwise) that few
people really beleive them... hence the attraction for superstring
theories which DO add up... a bit strangley for my taste... but they
don't actually mean anything!)

Splottie-kins (Strange).
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: joshi@cs.uiuc.edu (Anil Joshi)
Subject: Re: Author Polls: QUESTION
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 21:22:00 GMT

jl3j+@andrew.cmu.edu (John Robert Leavitt) writes:

>1) Why is nobody responding?  (Bad author choices, mail problems, lack of interest?)

Is it in the FAQ for this group (i.e. survyes on authors will be conducted 
preiodically..etc)? Is there a FAQ for this group? Are the previous survey
results ftp-able?

>2) What authors would you like to see?  Those done so far are:

John Brunner, Brian Aldiss.

- Anil
-- 
Sathsangatve    nissangatvam   From good company to no company
Nissangatve      nirmohatvam   From no company to lack of desire
Nirmohatve    nischalatatvam   From lack of desire to concentration of mind
Nischalatatve  jeevanmuktihi   From concentration of mind to liberation of life
From: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Jim Mann)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: John Woods Campbell
Date: 4 Jan 1993 14:03:04 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer Inc, Marlboro MA
Reply-To: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: gondolin.pubs.stratus.com

In article <1993Jan3.065523.15176@math.ucla.edu>  
dstein@charon.math.ucla.edu (David Stein) writes:
> Dani Zweig writes:
> 
> |> >  3. Why does the definition NOT fit some well known  
pre-Campbell SF?
> |> >
> |> >   J. Verne's _20,000 Leagues Under the Sea_
> |> >   H.G. Well's _The War of the Worlds_
> |> >   A. Huxley's _The Brave New World_
> |> >   Capek's _R.U.R._
> |> 
> |> You're confusing the history of the genre with the history of  
literature.
> 
>    ???  What makes you say this?
> 
> |> We may claim these works as early SF, but they are certainly not
> |> representative of the sort of writing to be found in the  
pre-Campbell pulps.
> 
>    So?  Neither I nor anyone else I know of claimed this.
> 

But in a sense you are.  You tried using them to refute the
idea that Campbell raised the quality of writing in the
SF genre.  The previous poster's point was that Wells, Huxley,
et al weren't really part of the genre, as such.  SF,
espcially in America, had basically turned into pulp writing
(mostly awful pulp writing) in the 1920s and 1930s. Campbell
raised the standard.

> |> Nobody's crediting Campbell with the invention of good writing,  
but he
> |> did insist on it in a genre in which it had previously been in  
short supply.
> 
>    We agree.  So?  How does this relate to my article?

You on one hand say that Campell was not a pivotal influence
on the field. Then, when someone says something like
"he raised the quality of writing in the genre" you reply by
saying you never said he didn't.   Which is it?  If he
raised the quality of writing in the field, he was a pivotal
influence.

--
Jim Mann            
Stratus Computer   jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com  

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,rec.arts.sf.science,sci.physics,sci.skeptic
From: phfrom@nyx.uni-konstanz.de (Hartmut Frommert)
Subject: Re: Speed of gravity (Re: Davis Mechanics (was Re: John Woods Campbell))
Organization: Dept. of Physics, University of Constance
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 13:17:22 GMT

matt@physics.berkeley.edu (Matt Austern) writes:

>           You can ask for the predictions of whatever theory of gravity
>           [...]
>       (2) The most widely accepted theory, General Relativity, is quite
>           complicated.  
>           [...]
>           gravitational radiation propagates at the speed of light.

If I'm not misinformed, there's also no *special* relativistic theory for
gravity where gravity propagates faster.
-
 Hartmut Frommert                 <phfrom@nyx.uni-konstanz.de>
 Dept of Physics, Univ of Constance, P.O.Box 55 60, D-W-7750 Konstanz, Germany
                                           -- Eat whale killers, not whales --
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: wcstom@alfred.carleton.ca (Tom Hamill)
Subject: Re: Dune the movie
Followup-To: rec.arts.sf.written
Organization: Carleton University, Ottawa, Canada
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 20:18:14 GMT

In article mgcbo@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Charles B. Owen) writes:
>In article wcstom@alfred.carleton.ca (Tom Hamill) writes:
>>Well, I don't know about that, but my brother-in-law's third cousin

 [deleted the rest of my sarcastic rumour squasher]

>Well, lets not get silly now.  I have in front of me a book.  This book
>has Frank Herbert's name on the front.  In it he discusses the movie
>dune on pages 9-14.  He tells very much what he thinks.  If I had the
>other essay he wrote concerning the film handy I would site it, also.
>
Why shouldn't I get silly?  This 'rumour' has been cycling here for
years and I thought some humour might prevent the inevitable weeks and
weeks of further rumours by giving you all of them at once.   Further
references aren't necessary--I'll take your word about what Frank
Herbert may have thought, but the fact remains, at the moment, there
aren't any longer versions than what you've mentioned.

>It is one thing to say "quit listening to all those stupid rumors".  It
>is another thing to say that you are the expert and that even the author
>is not considered a reference beyond yourself.
>
You seem to have me confused with someone else--no where in what I
posted did I say, suggest, hint, or even imply that I was "the expert"
about Frank Herbert, about Dune, or about anything at all.  I realize
it's the Full Moon and all, but really, life is far too complicated
and far to short to live it without a sense of humour.

>So, flame if you wish or be more sarcastic, but lets not scream that
>there is the US release version and nothing else.  
>
Again, you're confusing me with someone else.  I never said any such
thing. 

>I would not be
>surprised to see a three hour recut that is much more faithful to the
>original work.  
>
_*IF*_ such a recut is ever done, I'll be one of the first in line to
see it, but to make it more faithful to the original they'll have to
eliminate the 'weirding modules' and the rain on Arrakis, to mention
two of the more obvious differences between the novel and the movie.

---tom

l~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~l
l      CRUSH---CompassionRespectUnderstandingSelfHonesty---CRUSH      l
l         How could you have ever lived your life without it?         l
l               Join Now, Apply Within.  Spread the word.             l
l____________________________      ---me, trying to save the world,   l
l wcstom@alfred.carleton.ca l                      from itself.       l
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: David.Dyer-bennet@f0.n2492.z0.tdkt.kksys.com (David Dyer-bennet)
Sender: FredGate@tdkt.kksys.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Review Of The Gripping Hand
Date: Sat, 09 Jan 1993 11:10:16 -0600

 >>                As I recall, the original book explained why
 JSNI> women's rights had
 >>taken such a beating in the second Empire - namely that
 JSNI> regression to a more primitive
 >>soeciety made this inevitable, as women were relegated to the
 JSNI> role of child-bearing.

 JSNI> And the reason why it may have been preserved into the second
 JSNI> book?  Continuity of culture, perhaps.

 JSNI> Just speculation.

The Gripping Hand takes place about 25 years after Mote; 25 years ago
in our society, some people had detected a women's rights problem
(and there had been episodes of it being noticed and worked on back
in the 30's that were quite significant).  We've advanced some today.
On the other hand in Mote it didn't seem to be promoted as a societal
problem; a couple of individual characters perceived it as a problem,
but there was no indication that it was an issue in society at large.
That attitude seems (so far) to carry straight through in the next
book.  I suspect that that is also what bothers people; Sure, society
could be that way.  But if a few individual characters have perceived
it as a problem, shouldn't it be an issue in a larger sense in
society?  Surely the only two people who notice aren't the ones we
meet in the book?

Continuity of culture is one of the big problems with writing a
sequel so long after the original (about 20 years in this case).
Somehow the computer equipment in AD 3046 seems to be tracking the
development of computer equipment in AD 1993, and that really bothers
me.  There's specific reference to public key signature techniques
that's been added in the second book, for example (as mentioned by
others in the threads on the book here).  Clearly a digital signature
technique is needed for the way they use their pocket computers; but
adding it into the second book and specifying public key and giving
some operational details just rubs the readers' faces in the fact
that they're making it up as they go along.  Which is true, of
course, it's a novel not a history, but the readers want to *forget*
that as they're reading.  On the other hand, if they *hadn't* no
doubt somebody would complain about that too.  "How come they're not
using public key?  We've got it, and it's obviously the only way to
go, so why aren't they?"


Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: lairdb@crash.cts.com (Laird P. Broadfield)
Subject: Re: R.M. Meluch: Recommended Books?
Organization: "Well, a head on top, an arm on each side, two legs...."
Date: 12 Jan 93 07:33:47 GMT

In <1993Jan11.085717.15932@netcom.com> noir@netcom.com (Noel Ang) writes:

>I've just finished reading _The_Queen's_Squadron_, by Rebecca Meluch, and was
>wondering if anyone would recommend any of her previous works.  I've
>read one previous work of hers, _War_Birds_, and I find both of these books
>quite good.  I've heard mention of five other novels from her, _Wind_Dancers_,
>_Wind_child_, _Jerusalem_Fire, _Sovereign_, and _Chicago_Red_.  Are all of
>these Science Fiction?  Any recommendations are appreciated.

Personally, I liked only Jerusalem Fire and War Birds, but found those two
*excelleent*.  (My copy of Jerusalem Fire is falling apart from having been 
re-read so many times.  On the other hand, you had a quote from Queen of 
Angels in your sig, so apparently our tastes differ radically....


-- 
Laird P. Broadfield     lairdb@crash.cts.com    ...{ucsd, nosc}!crash!lairdb
Hi!  I'm a shareware signature!  Send $5 if you use me, send $10 for manual!
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: jhpace@eos.ncsu.edu (Jerrold H. Pace)
Subject: Re: Michael McCollum
Originator: jhpace@c00517-118rd.eos.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: jhpace@eos.ncsu.edu (Jerrold H. Pace)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 13:05:01 GMT


Christopher Dean writes:

>Does anyone know if Michael McCollum plans to continue his _Antares_ series
>and his _Life Probe_ series? Also, are there any other fans of his out there?
>I don't see him talked about that much.

My brother wrote him a letter about two years ago asking Michael McCollum that
same question, plus a few tech/plot questions.  As near as I can remember, 
McCollum wrote back that his book publisher was not satisfied with the sales on
the _Antares_ series, and decided not to accept anymore _Antares_ theme books.
McCollum said that he was dissappointed, but had to accept the decision.  He 
also wrote that if he ever got the chance to write it, the third book would be
titled _Antares Victory_.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jerrold H. Pace         | Jayce Paladin, The Paladin Knight
jhpace@eos.ncsu.edu     | 160 Owen Hall, Box 4451, NCSU, Raleigh  27607
Junior in Elec.Engin.   | Opinion:  only mine own, and maybe my twin's.......

\`pal-ed-en\    1:  a champion of a medieval prince
                2:  an outstanding protagonist of a cause
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: Crawford_Kilian@mindlink.bc.ca (Crawford Kilian)
Subject: Re: John Woods Campbell
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 20:44:15 GMT

I don't argue for a moment about Campbell's strong influence on the SF
writers of the 1940s and 50s. It was often constructive and helped to develop
both writers' skills and readers' tastes (which no one has said much about,
but which is often an editor's greatest contribution). The problem with
Campbell is essentially that he was the only game in town; Boucher at F&SF
and Gold at Galaxy came along well after Campbell had set the course of
American SF. And if Campbell had been a different person, willing to foster
many different styles and approaches within the genre, his contribution could
have been even greater.

If it's not outrageous to compare them, consider the influence of William
Shawn during his long tenure at The New Yorker (and read the comments on him
in the latest NYer on the occasion of his death). Shawn was a self-effacing
editor who encouraged a wildly diverse range of writers, from John McPhee to
James Baldwin to Rachel Carson...I could go on. Campbell kept demanding (and
getting) psi stories, galactic empire stories,
lonely-inventor-whips-establishment stories, and so on. How many stories did
he run about elaborate con games, from Sixth Column to novelettes about
scientists who are duped into creating antigravity, to other novelettes about
fictional revolutionary leaders who create real revolutions (Poul Anderson's
Sam Hall, for example)? As a result, the generation of Campbell's writers
could do neat stunts within a narrow range of themes and treatments, and very
little outside them.


--
Crawford Kilian   Communications Department   Capilano College
North Vancouver BC Canada V7J 3H5
Usenet: Crawford_Kilian@mindlink.bc.ca
Internet: ckilian@first.etc.bc.ca
From: matt@physics2.berkeley.edu (Matt Austern)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Heinlein - Politically correct?
Date: 8 Jan 93 09:58:14
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory (Theoretical Physics Group)
Reply-To: matt@physics.berkeley.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: physics2.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: rog's message of 8 Jan 93 14:30:24 GMT

In article <1993Jan8.143024.10511@ohm.york.ac.uk> rog (Roger Peppe) writes:

> >I am not aware of a single (positive) character in any of his books who
> >could not be accurately described as a WASP American. If they are not
> >WASP's then it is incidental.
> The main character in 'Starship Troopers' was certainly not white.

Correct; nor is he an American.

The point, however, is that he *behaves* like a 20th century WASP
American.  Heinlein, I believe, was making a deliberate point here,
but I'm not convinced that it's reasonable.  Is it realistic to
imagine that 20th century white American culture is so compelling that
every society in the world will adopt it?
--
Matthew Austern                   Just keep yelling until you attract a
(510) 644-2618                    crowd, then a constituency, a movement, a
austern@lbl.bitnet                faction, an army!  If you don't have any
matt@physics.berkeley.edu         solutions, become a part of the problem!
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: pnh@panix.com (Patrick Nielsen-Hayden)
Subject: Re: The Viscount of Adrilankha
Organization: fwa
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 18:37:32 GMT

dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig) writes:

>Brust's sequel to "The Phoenix Guards" has been turned in -- "The Viscount
>of Adrilankha".  (Actually, from what I understand, the sequel to TPG is
>"Five Hundred Years After" -- I still say it ought to be either 170 years
>or 20 decades -- which tells of Adron's Oops, so Viscount will probably
>be third.  It needn't be last -- there are lots more three-musketeer
>titles to plunder.)

>Now who would the Viscount be?  I take it that Khaavren corresponds to
>Dartagnan, that Tazendra corresponds to Porthos, and that the Viscount
>is the son of either Pel or Aerich -- which corresponds to Athos.  But
>I can't decide which:  Both have Athos-type backgrounds and Aramis-type
>behavior.  Or am I missing something obvious?


You're confused.  The sequel to THE PHOENIX GUARDS will be FIVE HUNDRED
YEARS AFTER.  The _next_ book in the trilogy will be THE VISCOUNT OF
ADILANKHA, which will itself be a three-decker.

FIVE HUNDRED YEARS AFTER has been under contract for some time, and Steve is
finishing it right now.  I just bought THE VISCOUNT OF ADRLINKHA last
month, but don't expect to see it for a long time to come; Steve has other
books (for us and Ace alike) to write before he essays that one.

As to your worthy questions, I'm going to invoke publisher privilege and say
Wait And See.  <g>

-----
Patrick Nielsen Hayden       :      senior editor, Tor Books
pnh@panix.com * CIS: 72701,1344 * GEnie: PNH * opinions mine

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: stile@okcforum.osrhe.uoknor.edu (Howard Wilson)
Subject: Wild Cards XI:Dealer's Choice
Summary: Where is it? 
Organization: Okcforum Unix Users Group
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 05:57:35 GMT


Where the heck is the new Wild Cards book?  According to book ten,
it will be/is/*WAS* due out in November of 1992.  So where is it?  I
have seen no word of it here on the Net (of course, lately I have been  
too busy to read ALL news groups but after 2-3 months, one would think
I would hear about it), and haven't seen it in any bookstore (again,
time has not exactly allowed me to hang out in any bookstores).
I've called many times to a local store where I get most of my reading
material (except that which I get from SFBC...and if you have any comments
on SFBC, be kind and change the subject when you post them), and they say
THEY haven't heard a word about it.  Did Melinda's book (Book Ten) bomb
so badly that they all said to Hell with it?  According to the second
GURPS book about Wild Cards, there are some new story lines that look GOOD!
We might get back to the OLD Wild Cards (I.E. good writing) now, without
Tachy of course.
 
Howard Wilson II
 
If it isn't yet out, does anyone know the reason for/length of the delay?

--
If this were a real .sig, there would be a witty saying here, an address
or two, and maybe a .sig virus.  But it isn't.



--
If this were a real .sig, there would be a witty saying here, an address
or two, and maybe a .sig virus.  But it isn't.
From: daa@SEACHANG.DEMON.CO.UK (David Allsopp)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Xenocide (O S Card)
Date: 8 Jan 93 14:03:55 GMT

Hmmm...well..."Xenocide".  Followed up the other two nicely, bit of a
rushed ending, BUT (picks up large ring-pull can labelled "WORMS") I think
that this is one of the most irritating books I've read in a long while.
I enjoyed almost all of it, but it was spoiled for me by what is, IMHO,
a *major* character development flaw.

(SPOILER WARNING/DISCLAIMER: this contains plot details, and is all from memory)

**Why didn't Ender and <<*name recall failure*>>...err..drat...`his wife'
(Novinha?) have any children??!?**

Consider:
	They live on an RC world with little or no contraception.
	She has already had 5 children, solely as a result of occasional
	relationships with Pipo (Libo?), so she obviously has no difficulty
	becoming pregnant.
	Almost the last sentence in `Speaker For the Dead' says something
	like "they thought that they had time for at least 5 more
	children, so they set to it with a will".  This gives the
	impression that she would have been pregnant within months.
	Their sex life seems OK, since Ender thinks that he won't be able
	to join her in the Children Of The Mind Of Christ place.
	There are no references to Ender being either impotent or infertile.
	There are no references to any miscarriages or similar.

So what gives?  All you get is the bald statement that "they have no kids",
a bit of angst from Ender, and a few jibes from the resurrected Peter.
This has been annoying me ever since I finished the book.

I've also just thought of something else.  Ender destroyed all the buggers
by torching their home planet -- implying that all the queens for all the
bugger colonies were on the same planet.  Were the buggers really stupid
enough to bring all the colony queens back to one planet during a war?
They must have lived on the colony planets normally, since the colonies would
be unable to grow without a queen.  The bugger fleet that Mazer Rackham
destroyed contained a queen, so they must have sent queens out sometimes.
Is this a plot hole, or am I missing something?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Allsopp (daa@seachang.demon.co.uk)	|	"Liverpool Street"
SeaChange Ltd., 1 St. George's Place,		|	"Dagenham East"
York, YO2 2DT, Great Britain			|	<what is this move?>
Tel: +44 904 611666 Fax: +44 904 610412		|	"Mornington Crescent!"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: higgins@fnalo.fnal.gov
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Air war pulps (was O pooh!  (was Re: John W. Campbell would laugh...))
Date: 6 Jan 93 23:16:03 GMT
Organization: Fermi National Accelerator Lab
NNTP-Posting-Host: fnalo.fnal.gov

In article <1993Jan6.190325.22720@pbhyc.PacBell.COM>, djdaneh@pbhyc.PacBell.COM (Dan'l DanehyOakes) writes:
> It is my opinion -- a reasonably informed opinion, based upon a knowledge of the
> field acquired over twenty-five years of dedicated reading -- that, if John W.
> Campbell had not taken over ASTOUNDING when he did, SF as a genre would have
> ceased to exist by the end of World War II; that it would have merged more-or-
> less seamlessly back into the mainstream of popular fiction, as, indeed, many
> of the categories of pulp fiction did. . .  even such "obviously" separate
> genres as horror, which continued separated in Hollywood but ceased to have a
> separate identity in the sense of publishing categories for several decades 
> after the fall of the "weird" pulps.  

Tangential question:  Are air-war pulp stories re-emerging as a
separate category, under the label of "technothriller?"

Bill Higgins, Beam Jockey              | Comet Swift-Tuttle is
Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory  | Mama Nature's way of
Bitnet:           HIGGINS@FNAL.BITNET  | saying it's time to 
Internet:       HIGGINS@FNAL.FNAL.GOV  | get off the planet.
SPAN/Hepnet:           43011::HIGGINS  |   --Dale Amon
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written