HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll)
Subject: How to destroy a population (was Re: Who bombed the Iraqi Jews?)
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 15:13:34 GMT

I just want to take issue with one point that Brendan makes:

In <1d8bcpINNper@tyl.anu.edu.au> bdm@cs.anu.edu.au (Brendan McKay) writes:

>Your first sentence is illogical.  It is easier to destroy a
>dispersed (thus weak) population than a concentrated one.

I don't agree.  It has been the policy of those wishing to destroy
populations to concentrate them in ghettos first.  We saw this with
the Nazis, and we see it now in Bosnia, as ethnic "cleansing"
concentrates minorities in a few small centers.

--
David F. Skoll
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Subject: Re: Living in Israel - Voting in USA
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1992 09:03:29 GMT

There is a Hebrew expression that is relevant: "notnim? tikach!"
(They're giving something away?  Take some!).  As long as both Israel
and the US agree to joint citizenship, why not have both?  Why should
an Oleh/Olah volunteer to make it more difficult to enter his/her
former country (not to mention other countries which might allow U.S.
citizens to visit without a visa which they require from Israelis)?

You might ask how many people who hold two passports used the U.S. one
to enter the U.S. during the Gulf War, I would think very few.
-- 
/|/-\/-\          Adif tzav pinui metzav shmoneh.
 |__/__/_/    
 |warren@     
/ nysernet.org 			    Jerusalem
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: kgivon@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (karen lee givon)
Subject: Re: Autopsy - Kahane and Rosenbaum
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 09:47:44 GMT

In article <1992Nov6.003849.23188@bony1.bony.com> jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni) writes:
>In article <Bx64A5.753@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> kgivon@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (karen lee givon) writes:
>>In article <1992Nov2.194247.2535@bony1.bony.com> jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni) writes:
>>>In article <Bx2pE5.Jz6@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> kgivon@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (karen lee givon) writes:
>>>
>>>>I am Jewish, Israeli, and Zionist, but I am relieved that Kahane is
>>>>gone.  He was a crazy fanatic...the world will be a much better place
>>>>when fanatics are gone.
>>>
>>>Tell me, "Jewish, Israeli, and Zionist", who else would you like to
>>>see gone?  How would you like them dealt with?  There are people in 
>>>this world who could make your dreams come true.  Sheesh.
>>
>>I'm dissappointed to see so many people I had previously agreed with on
>>tpm so adamantly support the ideals of a racist maniac. 
>>Especially those who have so strongly argued against antisemitic fanaticism...
>
>I can see that you are Following-Up on my posting but I hope that you
>aren't actually referring to me, in your posting.  

Not specifically to you.
>
>I am not "so adamantly supporting the ideals of a racist maniac" so
>much as commenting on your relief in Kahane's departure and the manner
>in which the US Justice system handled the case of his murder.

I wrote earlier that I did not follow the case, unfortunately. 
So I do not know the specifics of the case or why the accused murdered
was not convicted.

I am relieved that he is gone...That doesn't mean I'm saying it's ok
that he was murdered or that the murderer should be commended or even
just not punished.

>If you were truly concerned about maniacal fanaticism, you should be
>at least as concerned about Nosair and the philosophies that impelled

I don't know about his philosophies so I can't really discuss them.  I
would imagine that I would not agree with his fanaticism either though.


>him to this killing as well as the racial and social environemnt that
>allowed him to be acquitted of murder.  Face it, now that Kahane is
>gone, your problems are not.  Just ask Yankel Rosenbaum's family...
Oh, trust me, I know my problems are not gone.  I deal with anti
semitism daily.  (I spent most of my life in a small redneck town in
southern Indiana).

-Keren


>
>-- 
>Jake Livni  jake@bony1.bony.com              10 years from now, George Bush will
>American-Occupied New York                   have replaced Jimmy Carter as the
>My opinions only - employer has no opinions. standard of a failed President.
From: lerner@cs.columbia.edu (Michah Lerner)
Subject: Re: Conversion Question
Organization: Columbia University Department of Computer Science
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 19:19:07 GMT

In article <FAIGIN.92Nov10110014@soldan.aero.org> faigin@aero.org (Daniel P. Faigin) writes:
>>
>>                                       Nothing in Reform prevents someone
>>from being fully Orthodox while still considering themselves Reform. It's a
>>conscious decision to join the Orthodox. 
>>
  The above statement is false.  At best it is a reform opinion.
  It does not correspond to the actual Jewish practice.  By 
  definition if one is "fully Orthodox" they one does not accept
  such reform positions as patrilinial descent.   Talk to a "fully
  Orthodox" Rabbi if you want to know if one can be a fully Orthodox
  reform Jew.  
--
/M
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: aa324@yfn.ysu.edu (Marlene Miller)
Subject: Lincoln Square Synagogue
Reply-To: aa324@yfn.ysu.edu (Marlene Miller)
Organization: St. Elizabeth Hospital, Youngstown, OH
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 13:56:53 GMT


Someone asked (I'm not sure if it was in this newsgroup) for the
phone number of the Lincoln Square Synagogue, in New York.
 
This is the number:  (212) 874-6100
-- 
       No nation can survive without pride in its traditions.
       Marlene J. Miller   aa324@yfn.ysu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: sethr@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (seth.r.rosenthal)
Subject: Re: Jewish Autonomous Oblast
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 14:06:32 GMT

In article <92314.1310492893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>, andy <2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> writes:
> In article <rabjab.248.721291927@golem.ucsd.edu>, rabjab@golem.ucsd.edu (Jeff
> Bytof) says:
> >
> >Does anyone have historical and current information on the Jewish
> >Autonomous Oblast, a small region in the eastern part of the xSU and
> >bordered by China, Amur and Khabarovsk?
> 
> Biro-Bijan (sp?) was set up by Stalin in the 1930s as a "homeland" for the
> Jews, with Yiddish and Russian as official languages. While some Jews moved
> there (many with little choice) the majority of Jews did not. The Jewish
> population of the oblast never exceeded 10% and the policy of encouraging
> Jews to move there was abandoned in the 50s. Before Stalin died, he
> allegedly had plans to force Jewish leaders to deport all Jews to the oblast,
> fortunately Stalin died before this could come to pass.

Just for folks information, although Stalin tried to implement
the plan, it was actually a mid-19th century plan cooked up
under the Tsar.  It is documented in Zvi Gittelman's
"Century of Ambivalence" (I think that's the title).

Russian Anti-semitism changed guise but not form.

		Seth Rosenthal

Disclaimer: All opinions are my own not my employers'.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: cohen@quartz.ciw.edu (Ronald Cohen)
Subject: Re: Conversion Question
Date: 10 Nov 92 16:23:34 GMT
Organization: Geophysical Laboratory, CIW

In article <memo.740888@cix.compulink.co.uk> stephenp@cix.compulink.co.uk writes:
>Nobody "owns" a religion. But for 3,000 odd years the Orthodox
>"interpretation" as you put it has been the one that has been
>universally accepted (apart from a few breakaway groups like the
>Saducees and Karaites). I think that the Orthodox are quite justified
>in maintaining that 3,000 odd years tradition.

The Orthodox Jews were not maintaining the tradition while those
Reform and Conservative Jews were fooling around for 3000 years.
That 3000 year old tradition is ours too!  And there was
certainly no "single orthodox interpretation" for 3000 years.
Were Sages that held minority opinions heretics?  The principle
is that halacha follows majority rule.  Does that makes
the orthodox the heretics if there are more Conservatives?
Reread the story of the oven of Ankara!
-- 
Ronald Cohen
Geophysical Laboratory, Carnegie Institution of Washington
5251 Broad Branch Rd., N.W.,  Washington, D.C. 20015
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Subject: Re: Living in Israel - Voting in USA
Organization: AT&T
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 18:46:45 GMT

In article <22885@venera.isi.edu> arens@ISI.EDU (Yigal Arens) writes:

>So I guess that's what Zionism has come to...

>1900: The only place a Jew can lead a normal life is a Jewish state.
>1950: A Jewish state should be maintained so that Jews abroad have a
>      place to go to if they feel like it.
>1990: A Jew in the Jewish state should maintain contact with a safe haven
>      abroad, you never know when you or your descendents will wish to
>      move there.

I guess this makes Yigal (or at least his parents) a Zionist.

Wait till his friends in the Intrafada find out.
-- 
Sam Saal      kingfish!saal OR saal@kingfish.att.com
	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton
From: MASH@WEIZMANN.WEIZMANN.AC.IL (Michael Shimshoni)
Subject: Re: Noach question
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 08:14:01 GMT

In: <1dbadnINNl3k@TERMINATOR.AI.CS.YALE.EDU>
engelson-sean@cs.yale.edu (Sean Philip Engelson) wonders:

>In article <4NOV199215174825@utkvx2.utk.edu>, egw@utkvx2.utk.edu (Wolpert, Edw
>|>         Going back to last week's dvar,... I was talking to a friend, and
>|> we were discussing about fish and Noach.  Specifically, did Noach bring two
>|> fish on board (For each kind)?  I'm looking to create a discussion about
>|> this, and profess no 'true' wisdom on this.
>
>Well, the issue seems relatively clear from the text.  In Breshit 6:20:
>
>	From the birds by their species and from the land animals by their
>	species, and from the crawling things by their species; two from each
>	will come to you to be saved.
>
>So it seems that the fish were note included.  A better question than the
>"storm" aspect of fish survival is the difference between salt-water and
>fresh-water fish---since the whole world was covered in water, it was either
>all salt or all fresh.  This could cause serious problems for some of the fish
>Any ideas??

Must an  Israeli remind American Jews  of the wisdom of  another great
American Jew,  the late George  Gershwin? In the  title of one  of the
beautiful songs of Porgy and Bess, Shlomo might find the answer to his
(and the fish's) problems.

>	-Shlomo-
>--
>Sean Philip (Shlomo) Engelson

 Michael Simshoni
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.african.american,misc.headlines,misc.legal,ny.general
From: smb11@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Sameer M Bhasin)
Subject: FREE DIET SUPPORT GROUP
Reply-To: smb11@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Sameer M Bhasin)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 15:35:21 GMT

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Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: moskowit@panix.com (Len Moskowitz)
Subject: Re: If I could read only one book on Judaism, what would it be?
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 14:02:12 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix & Internet, NYC

Matthew Harrington writes:

>Let's say that I'm a Martian and am assigned to learn all about
>Judiasm in one week.  What book do you suggest I read?  It has been
>recpmmended to me that I read "Jewish Literacy" by Telushkin, I
>believe.  What do you all think?

If this Martian only read English, didn't care to delve too deeply at
first reading, and wanted a relatively short book I'd strongly suggest
"The Handbook of Jewish Thought" by Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan (z"l).  At a
yet more introductory level there's "To Be A Jew" by Rabbi Donin.  The
former is copiously footnoted and gives detailed references for
further research.

If the Martian read Hebrew and wanted a detailed understanding of
Jewish practice I'd suggest the Shulchan Aruch by Rav Yosef Karo or
the Rambam's (Maimonides') Mishneh Torah (aka "Yad Hakhazakah").  If
he wanted a short easy-to-read philosophic overview I'd recommend
Derech HaShem (The Way of G-d) by Rabbi Moshe Chayyim Luzzatto (Rav
Kaplan's English translation is available from Feldheim Publishers).

-- 
Len Moskowitz
moskowit@panix.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
Subject: Re: Who built the pyramids
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 04:37:27 GMT

mmg@doc.ic.ac.uk (M M Ghanem) writes:

#P.S. Am I sensing something in the line of : The pyramids are jewish, 
#therefore .... 

Right. You owe us for the labor. Start by sending me $100,000 in
cash plus percentage of money tourists spend there.

-Danny Keren.


Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight)
Subject: Re: Pidyon ha'Ben
Keywords: pidyon haben what when why?
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 01:02:05 GMT


Is there a remedy for a father who fails to perform Pidyon ha'Ben when
his child is a baby, if the child is now grown up and married, and has
not entered the religious professions? Is there a remedy for the child?

What is the halachic position when the family are Yisroel?

-- 
David Sternlight
(pgp 2.0 and ripem public keys available on request)

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: Just try a little harder <dkeller@ndlvax.enet.dec.com>
Subject: help needed...
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <Just try a little harder <dkeller@ndlvax.enet.dec.com>>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 22:10:15 GMT

    
    Shalom,
    
    1. I'm scouting for holiday Judaica...I'm on VMS 5.4-2...any 
       .eps or .img (image) format is fine...or maybe sixel. Any
       help is highly appreciated.

    
    2. Looking for an address in Israel for kosher food and wine...the shop
       must be willing to do postal orders.
    
    Any help...thanks much...pls reply via E-mail.
    
    L'hit and Cheers
    
    D. Keller
    Digital Equipment

    VAXmail address: NDLIS3::DKELLER or NDLIS4::DKELLER
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Jewish Fundamentalism
Date: 8 Nov 92 12:31:12 GMT
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs

In <1992Nov7.010111.1@vmsa.technion.ac.il> chr04ha@vmsa.technion.ac.il (Amitai Halevi) writes:

>teaching the theory of evolution in the (non-orthodox) schools.

Is it really the case that they *don't* teach evolution in secular
Israeli schools?  Do Israeli students never learn it unless they take
a college course in biology?

P.S.  I learned it in an Orthodox day school in the U.S.
-- 
/|/-\/-\          Adif tzav pinui metzav shmoneh.
 |__/__/_/    
 |warren@     
/ nysernet.org 			    Jerusalem
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: stephenp@cix.compulink.co.uk (Stephen Phillips)
Subject: Re: Conversion Question
Cc: stephenp@cix.compulink.co.uk
Reply-To: stephenp@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 13:12:00 +0000


> +From         : CARIAN@auvm.american.edu
> +Subject      : Re: Conversion Question
> 
> >In article <1992Nov9.163429.24770@umbc3.umbc.edu> shimoff@umbc4.umbc.edu
> >(Eliot
> >Shimoff) writes:
> >>But now to a serious question.  You object to Orthodoxy's claim
> >>that they are the only legitimate inheritors of the halakhic
> >>process.  I can understand your dismay.  But -- I really want
> >>to know -- Do not Conservative rabbis act the same way vis
> >>a vis CCAR (Reform) rabbinic decisions?  For example, the
> >>child of a non-Jewish woman is accepted as Jewish by a Reform
> >>temple; will a Conservative synagogue accept that person as
> >>Jewish?  Does that not compromise the "legitimate interpretation"
> >>argument?
> 
> Eliot raises an interesting point, in his typical thoughtful and
> respectful fashion.
> 
> Conservative rabbis do not and may not, upon risk of expulsion from The
> Rabbinical Assembly, accept as Jewish the child of a non-Jewish woman,
> absent a valid conversion.
> 
> Why is this different than the Orthodox non-acceptance of Conservative
> conversions? Because the focus is not on the identity of the rabbi
> supervising the ritual or making the decision but on the ritual or
> decision itself.
> 
> A better example would be the Conservative attitude toward Reform conversions.
> Conservative rabbis will accept Reform conversions if they are performed
> according to the proper ritual -- milah, t'vilah, bet din of three. If they
> are not performed halachically they will not be accepted-- but the reason
> is not the identity of the supervising rabbi, it is the problematic
> way in which the conversion was performed.
> 
> In contradistinction, the Orthodox non-acceptance of Conservative
> conversions is based not on the form of the conversion but the identity
> of the supervising rabbis, since the procedure and ritual in Conservative
> and Orthodox conversions is identical.


Is that really the case. Does not conversion require "Kabbolas Ol
Mitzvos"? And is it not the case that the Conservative movement does
not consider all the Mitzvos as binding? If so, then to that extent
the conversion procedures are not identical.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Stephen (Yisroel) Phillips      Tel: 44-895-442141
Burch Phillips & Co.            Fax: 44-895-421231
63a Station Road
West Drayton
Middlesex
UB7 7LR
United Kingdom                  stephenp@compulink.co.uk
From: CARIAN@auvm.american.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Kosher Question: Eggs and chesse
Date: 13 Nov 92 18:13:43 GMT
Article-I.D.: auvm.92318.131343CARIAN
Organization: The American University - University Computing Center

Eggs are pareve. You can have as many cheese omelettes as your doctor will
allow.

This is the first time I've ever heard of someone thinking eggs are
fleishig, though I know a lot of people who think eggs are dairy.

This is not to imply that your mother's beliefs are illegimate. But they
are not correct.

Rabbi Charles Arian
CARIAN@american.edu
From: schultz@garnet.berkeley.edu (Richard Schultz)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Welcome to s.c.j.
Date: 11 Nov 1992 16:38:55 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu


This brief note is mainly for the newer readers of s.c.j.

Welcome to the semi-annual OCR flamefest!  Usually about 2-4 times a year,
the OCR stalwarts get together and start the same arguments over and over
again.  Most of the participants are long-time posters to s.c.j., and say
exactly the same thing each go around, often at great length.  I won't spoil
the suspense by telling you who is going to say what.  But just because most
people have done this before doesn't mean that you can't join in!  Just keep
the following pointers in mind.

First, remember that you aren't going to change the mind of anyone you argue
with.  The best you can hope for is to convince other people that your 
interlocutor is wrong.  The best way to do this is by using ad hominem 
arguments.  Call him or her names, accuse him or her of insincerity, hypocrisy,
or worse, lay the Death of Judaism at the feet of your opponents.

Along these lines, don't forget to USE CAPITAL LETTERS as much as possible.
It has long been known (since the days of net.jewish at least) that if you
WRITE IT IN CAPITAL LETTERS it *must* be true.  And leave any politeness you
might have at the door.  When getting ready to post to the OCR flame war, ask
yourself the following question:  if the other person were in the room with
me, would I say this out loud?  If the answer to that question is "no", then
you should post it.  That's what computers are for.

You might be afraid to post on this thread because of fear of sinat chinam
(causing needless hatred).  That is not a problem, really.  Remember, the
people on the other side of the argument are evildoers and heretics and
should be banished from the net, if not from the religion.  They are outside
the category of people to whom this whole argument applies.  Remember, God
has friends like you.  He doesn't need enemies like them.

Finally, in case you're wondering about whether this whole argument is a 
shanda far die goyim:  of course it is.  That's what we're here for.

					Richard Schultz
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet)
Subject: Re: Pierced Ears
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories,  Columbus, Ohio
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 16:33:10 GMT

In article <1992Nov9.142818.27130@discus.technion.ac.il> ben@vmsa.technion.ac.il writes:
>In article <96449@netnews.upenn.edu> weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P
>Wiener) writes:
>>In article <1992Nov6.015337.5246@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu>, friedenb@topaz (Gedaliah
>Friedenberg) writes:
>>>Men should not dress as women, and thus earrings are forbidden for men
>>>is understood.
>>
>>But men can dress as men, so earrings are permitted.
>>
>>What is men's clothing vs what is women's clothing depends on your culture.

>Could not a pierced ear be forbidden based on what is the sign that slave must
>do to indenture himself?

Is this law still enforced today?

Also the logic isn't clear.   True, the pierced ear is the symbol of
a slave who wished to remain a slave.  But why is it prohibited
elsewhere?

Techeilet is to be used in tzitzit, but that didn't prohibit
techeilet from being used elsewhere -- in the priests garments or in
Mordechai's garments for example.

If anything, ear piercing would seem to be a permitted exception to
mutilation.

Finally, there are screw-on and clasp earings which do not require
piercing.
-- 
Art Kamlet  a_s_kamlet@att.com  AT&T Bell Laboratories, Columbus
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: er@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Elie Rosenfeld)
Subject: Re: sexism
Reply-To: er@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Elie Rosenfeld)
Organization: Bell Communications Research (Bellcore)
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 92 17:41:36 GMT

In article <GJSSBPF6@cc.swarthmore.edu>, mwertz1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Melanie Wertz) writes:
|> No one has answered my questions yet.  Why is it that MEN are not barred
|> from appearing provocative to women?  WOMEN EXPERIENCE ATTRACTION TOO!

But we are!  That's why us Orthodox men are always dressed like nerds!

(Just a joke - so no cracks like "speak for yourself!")
-- 
Elie Rosenfeld      | "He tasks me!  He tasks me and I shall have him!
Bellcore            |  I'll chase him 'round the Moons of Nebir and 'round
Piscataway, N.J.    |  the Antares Maelstrom and 'round Perdition's FLAMES
(908) 699-8800      |  before I give him up!"  - Khan, "STII-The Wrath of Khan"
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: British Royal Family question.
From: EXTDSM@LURE.LATROBE.EDU.AU (MADDISON,David)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 00:52:49 GMT
Organization: La Trobe University
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.24

I recently learned that the baby boys of the British Royal Family are
circumcised by a mohel. Does anybody have any further information on this?
From: simon1@bass.bu.edu (Simon Streltsov)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: NEED SOME KNOWLEDGE ABOUT JUDAISM
Date: 10 Nov 92 18:46:14 GMT
Reply-To: simon1@bass.bu.edu (Simon Streltsov)
Followup-To: soc.culture.jewish
Organization: Boston University

The following seems to be a good answer, but may violate copyright!

>> I need some knowledge about judaism, could somebody send some basic knowledge
>> about judaism.!!!!!!!!
>do not unto others as you would not have them do unto you. the rest is
>commentary. go and study it.
>
>Seth L. Ness                         Ness Gadol Hayah Sham
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>ness@aecom.yu.edu                      

Shouldn'y the signuture say : Hillel (-:[

Simon