HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: schow@bqneh23.bnr.ca (Stanley T.H. Chow)
Subject: Re: iAPX432 ??
Organization: Bell Northern Research Ltd, Ottawa
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 13:41:25 GMT

In article <1992Sep8.200523.19955@crd.ge.com> davidsen@crd.ge.com (bill davidsen) writes:
>In article <b0qnybk.tcmay@netcom.com>, tcmay@netcom.com (Timothy C. May) writes:
>
>| The 432 project and team lived on in the "Gemini" project, which
>| became the Intel-Siemens jointly-owned "Biin Computer." The chips
>| developed had some of the 432 capabilities, but were more efficient
>| and didn't carry the same "everything is an object" penalty. The chips
>| are now sold by Intel as the "960" family.
>
>  The 432 was an object oriented, bit addressable, massively complex
>instruction set machine, and seeing any part of that  become the 960 is
>certainly stranger than changing a caterpilar into a butterfly.

Strange but true!.

If you look below the surface, many aspects of the 960 (especially
the Biin portions) were indeed very similar to the 432 in spirit. One
might say that the 960/Biin is a RISC version of the 432. I came to
conclusion before I knew that some of the 432 team were on the 960
team.

>  Thanks for the info on the 432, I wish I could get a chip, I have the
>manuals, and I believe that it was a great step forward in spite of the
>lack of commercial success.

I too think of it as a great experiment, much like the IBM Stretch; and
as Timothy pointed out, Intel got a lot of technology from it.


--
Stanley Chow            InterNet: schow@BNR.CA
Bell Northern Research  UUCP:     ..!uunet!bnrgate!bqneh3!schow
(613) 763-2831
Me? Represent other people? Don't make them laugh so hard.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.intel
From: session@seq.uncwil.edu (Zack C. Sessions)
Subject: OBERON for 386/486?
Organization: Univ. of North Carolina @ Wilmington
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 01:38:34 GMT

(Asking this for a friend who does not have Usenet access, I know nothing
of OBERON.)

Does anyone know of a port of the OBERON Operating System to the 386/486
hardware platform?

Thanks in advance for any information!


-- 
Zack Sessions
sessions@seq.uncwil.edu
University of North Carolina at Wilmington
"Good health is merely the slowest form of dying."
Newsgroups: comp.sys.intel
From: tcmay@netcom.com (Timothy C. May)
Subject: Re: iAPX432 ??
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 92 01:17:56 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

davidsen@ariel.crd.GE.COM (william E Davidsen) writes:

:   Thanks for the info on the 432, I wish I could get a chip, I have the
: manuals, and I believe that it was a great step forward in spite of the
: lack of commercial success.
: 
: -- 
: bill davidsen, GE Corp. R&D Center; Box 8; Schenectady NY 12345

I have a "43201" package, with the lid already removed, that I will
send to you if you wish. The chip is of course dead. Is this what you
meant by wanting to get one? (Getting a full set of chips an getting
it running would be a formidable challenge. I doubt even Intel could
do this!)

--Tim

-- 
..........................................................................
Timothy C. May         | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,  
tcmay@netcom.com       | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
408-688-5409           | knowledge, reputations, information markets, 
W.A.S.T.E.: Aptos, CA  | black markets, collapse of governments.
Higher Power: 2^756839 | RSA MailSafe Public Key: by arrangement
From: tcmay@netcom.com (Timothy C. May)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.intel
Subject: Re: iAPX432 ??
Date: 10 Sep 92 04:57:35 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

Another comment on the 432.

Someone over in comp.arch, in a thread titled "Computer architects
forced to change careers" or somesuch, just railed against the 432 as
an example of everything bad in architecture and the cause of layoffs
in the computer industry.

I posted a comment pointing to this thread and suggested that the 432
experience should indeed be studied. Those following this thread might
want to check it out.

--Tim May

-- 
..........................................................................
Timothy C. May         | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,  
tcmay@netcom.com       | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
408-688-5409           | knowledge, reputations, information markets, 
W.A.S.T.E.: Aptos, CA  | black markets, collapse of governments.
Higher Power: 2^756839 | RSA MailSafe Public Key: by arrangement
Newsgroups: comp.sys.intel
From: ogilvie@hpcvcdi.cv.hp.com (Scott Ogilvie)
Subject: Re: iAPX432 ??
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 01:08:59 GMT

> : Tim, wasn't the 432 also ADA Microcoded? -Steve

No the 432 was not ADA Microcoded.  The microcode supported the complex instructions
including instructions like sendMessage, and surrogateSendMessage.  The original
language work was for a language called SIL (Systems Implementation Language).  Intel
abandoned SIL and adopted ADA because ADA was a STANDARD that already had all of
the most important features of SIL.

Scott Ogilvie,  My own opinion but I was around there someplace.
From: davidsen@ariel.crd.GE.COM (william E Davidsen)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.intel
Subject: Re: Confused??? 486DX
Date: 9 Sep 92 14:07:31 GMT
Reply-To: davidsen@crd.ge.com (bill davidsen)
Organization: GE Corporate R&D Center, Schenectady NY

In article <14409@goanna.cs.rmit.oz.au>, s923257@yallara.cs.rmit.OZ.AU (Chew Ming Ean) writes:
| Is the 486 a 32 bit bus computer????
| 
| If so what is the difference between the busses?? ISA and EISA???
| 
| Will it make a lot of difference if I purchase the ISA instead of the EISA
| bus???

  No. The memory on a 486 (all the ones I've ever seen) is one the
motherboard, and that's the primary bottleneck. Going to EISA will get
you some extra performance with video and disk if you use pricy
controllers, but it's not a huge difference, and unless you have a need
for the ultimate speed in video and disk I wouldn't consider it.

  I use both ISA and EISA, and EISA config is a royal pain in the ...
ear. Under normal single user load, and particularly with DOS, you will
be able to measure the boost, but probably not feel it.

-- 
bill davidsen, GE Corp. R&D Center; Box 8; Schenectady NY 12345
    I admit that when I was in school I wrote COBOL. But I didn't compile.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.intel
Subject: Why shouldn't I buy Cyrix
From: daniel.moran@pcb.batpad.lgb.ca.us (Daniel Moran) 
Date: 6 Sep 92 17:34:00 GMT
Reply-To: daniel.moran@pcb.batpad.lgb.ca.us (Daniel Moran) 
Distribution: world
Organization: The Batchelor Pad PCBoard ~ Long Beach, CA ~ +1 310 494 8084

jas37876@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (John A. Slagel) writes:

JAS>       I can, all things considered, upgrade my non-coprocessed 386-33,
JAS>       to the Cyrix 486-33 for ~$150.

JAS>       Is there problems with this chip ??
JAS>       Thanks for all help.

Ditto on that request. I'm extremely interested in this chip. My
understanding is that it does not have an on-board math coprocessor; but
I'm more interested in the cache and pipelining anyway. I'm running a
clone motherboard with a very recent AMI BIOS. Any comments? Anyone
who's done this upgrade?
                                                                                        
Newsgroups: comp.sys.intel
From: cee1@ra.msstate.edu (Charles Evans)
Subject: Texts, manuals, sheets for AMD/Cyrix
Organization: Mississippi State University
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 19:49:30 GMT

I am in the order of trying to find the data sheets, internal gizmos,
Instruction sheets, manuals, etc for:

AMD/386-40 and Cyrix 387/40 (FASMATH) chips.

Can anyone give me addresses _TOLL FREE_ or otherwise phone numbes of
these comanies at which I could find info on pricing and such.

If any AMDians and Cyixians are reading this input from you is most 
helpful.

chuck

-- 
+--------------------+-----------------------+------------------------+
|  Charles E. Evans  |  cee1@ra.msstate.edu  |  All things are green  |
|    iDLE CHATTEr    |  cee1@MSSTATE.BITNET  |  unless they are not.  |
+--------------------+-----------------------+------------------------+
From: S_JUFFA@iravcl.ira.uka.de (|S| Norbert Juffa)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.intel
Subject: Re: What is the price of 386 in small qty.
Date: 14 Sep 1992 15:30:22 GMT
Organization: University of Karlsruhe (FRG) - Informatik Rechnerabt.
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: irav1.ira.uka.de
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.23

In <1992Sep14.092819.10182@newsroom.bsc.no> izahi@bsc.no writes:

>    What is the price for a 386 processor in quantities of 10s?
>    Does anybody know of a good cheap supplier (FAX #)?
> 
> -- 
>          -----> All opinions expressed here are my own, not IBM's <-----
> Raul Izahi Lopez	Izahi Engineering
> izahi@bsc.no		IBM Bergen Environmental Sciences and Solutions Centre
> 			Thormoehlensgate 55, 5008 Bergen, NORWAY (47-5)54-4653

I have seen the AMD AM386-40 being offered for 180 deutsch marks excluding VAT
for single chips. At the current exchange rate, this would be US$ 120. Sorry,\
don't remember the dealer though. You should ask companies that sell DRAMs,
cache SRAM, quartz oscillator, and stuff like that if they have the 80386 in
stock. These should be the right people to ask. If they don't have it, they
could probably tell you where to get it.

Norbert
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Norbert Juffa         email: S_JUFFA@IRAVCL.IRA.UKA.DE       Live and let live!


Newsgroups: comp.sys.intel
From: keith@ksmith.uucp (Keith Smith)
Subject: EISA PAINS (was: Re: Confused??? 486DX)
Organization: Keith's Computer, Hope Mills, NC
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 92 03:50:47 GMT
Followup-To: comp.misc

Note: followups to comp.misc.

In article <1992Sep9.140731.21517@crd.ge.com> davidsen@crd.ge.com (bill davidsen) writes:
[....]
>  I use both ISA and EISA, and EISA config is a royal pain in the ...
>ear. Under normal single user load, and particularly with DOS, you will
>be able to measure the boost, but probably not feel it.
>
>-- 
>bill davidsen, GE Corp. R&D Center; Box 8; Schenectady NY 12345
>    I admit that when I was in school I wrote COBOL. But I didn't compile.

No stuff here, ...  EISA config is a TRUE pain.  Total Hassle.  Part of
the "idea" here was (I thought) to eliminate the need for jumpers and
such on the cards easing installation woes.  So instead of jumpering 3
or 4 snap-headers ( 2-3 minutes glaring at a manual) I get to spend 15
minutes running the configuration utility from floppies & trying to copy
EISA config Files on a single floppy system.  Fun, Fun, Fun. 
Unfortunately for this 4G disk, 20+ user monstrosity a neccesity.
-- 
Keith Smith          uunet!ksmith!keith            5719 Archer Rd.
Digital Designs      BBS 1-919-423-4216            Hope Mills, NC 28348-2201
Somewhere in the Styx of North Carolina ...
Newsgroups: comp.sys.intel
From: karger@osf.org (Paul A. Karger)
Subject: Re: iAPX432 ??
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 18:56:42 GMT

As far as I can tell, Intel still sells the CPUs that were used in
BiiN.   They are the 80960XA and 80960MX.  I was able to order data
sheets on them from Intel recently.
From: ninassup@athena.mit.edu (Nikos I Nassuphis)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.intel
Subject: info on P5
Keywords: P5
Date: 14 Sep 92 03:47:55 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

I am interested to know if there is a description of
the upcoming P5 processor available.

From the way it is being talked about is seems that
this is the case.

Any relevant mailings or pointers to sites would be
greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

ninassup@athena.mit.edu
NN
From: oestline@maui.qualcomm.com (Ofer Estline)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.intel
Subject: 8051 stuff
Summary: ftp sites
Keywords: 8051
Date: 14 Sep 92 19:54:00 GMT
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA


	Like some others in this group, I'm working with an 8051.
	I'm looking for a few ftp sites with public files such as
	cross-assemblers, cross-compilers, assemblers, and disassemblers
	(if any exist).
	Any info would be useful.
	Thanks,
	--Ofer
From: davidsen@ariel.crd.GE.COM (william E Davidsen)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.intel
Subject: Re: Why shouldn't I buy Cyrix 486 ??
Date: 8 Sep 92 19:58:47 GMT
Reply-To: davidsen@crd.ge.com (bill davidsen)
Organization: GE Corporate R&D Center, Schenectady NY

In article <Bu4GDD.LxF@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, jas37876@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (John A. Slagel) writes:
| 
|        I can, all things considered, upgrade my non-coprocessed 386-33,
|        to the Cyrix 486-33 for ~$150.

  If this is the chip I think you mean, which goes in a 386
motherboard, as long as you realize that it is not as fast as an Intel
486DX you should be fine. The upgrade has three caveats:

 - I'm told you need a 387 socket (like the Intel FastCAD chip) and
   can't use it in an old 386 with 287 cocket (only made in 1986-87).

 - The 1k vs 8k cache hurts performance quite a bit relative to a 486DX

 - The lack of burst mode refresh hurts quite a bit relative to any 486

  Compatibility seems good and performance falls between the Intel 386
and 486 chips. The FPU may actually be a bit faster than the Intel, say
a few percent, but the memory bandwidth is way down as listed above.

  Hope this helps with the decision.

-- 
bill davidsen, GE Corp. R&D Center; Box 8; Schenectady NY 12345
    I admit that when I was in school I wrote COBOL. But I didn't compile.
From: davidsen@ariel.crd.GE.COM (william E Davidsen)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.intel
Subject: Re: iAPX432 ??
Date: 8 Sep 92 20:05:23 GMT
Reply-To: davidsen@crd.ge.com (bill davidsen)
Organization: GE Corporate R&D Center, Schenectady NY

In article <b0qnybk.tcmay@netcom.com>, tcmay@netcom.com (Timothy C. May) writes:

| The 432 project and team lived on in the "Gemini" project, which
| became the Intel-Siemens jointly-owned "Biin Computer." The chips
| developed had some of the 432 capabilities, but were more efficient
| and didn't carry the same "everything is an object" penalty. The chips
| are now sold by Intel as the "960" family.

  The 432 was an object oriented, bit addressable, massively complex
instruction set machine, and seeing any part of that  become the 960 is
certainly stranger than changing a caterpilar into a butterfly.

  Thanks for the info on the 432, I wish I could get a chip, I have the
manuals, and I believe that it was a great step forward in spite of the
lack of commercial success.

-- 
bill davidsen, GE Corp. R&D Center; Box 8; Schenectady NY 12345
    I admit that when I was in school I wrote COBOL. But I didn't compile.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.intel
From: ronc@kentrox.uucp (Ron Christian)
Subject: Re: help on AMD
Organization: ADC Kentrox, Portland OR
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 17:24:16 GMT

In article <ODYSEE.92Sep2185011@kobra.DoCS.UU.SE> odysee@kobra.DoCS.UU.SE (Tobias Thomson) writes:
>My problem is to convince the seller that Am386 is not good and I have
>read some artikels in news about the same problems (with the board not
>the seller) and now they a gone. Can anyone send me these and some other
>info about it?

I think you're going to have difficulty convincing the seller that
the AMD chip is the problem.  Contrary to rumor, there doesn't seem
to be any problems with AMD's 386 chip.  Mine certainly works flawlessly,
and I have not been able to locate anyone with system problems that
haven't, on further examination, been caused by something else.  The
"compatability" issue appears to be so much underground marketing.



			Ron
-- 

		Barbara Bush - Colin Powell for '92
From: gilem@aix02.ecs.rpi.edu (Michael R. Gile)
Subject: Cyrix 486dlc
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 13:52:57 GMT

Some articles that i have read state that the new Cyrix 486
is pin compatible with the intel 386.  Does this mean that I
can buy one to give my old 386 a new lease on life, because the
benchmarks that I have seen seem to indicate much better per-
formance.  If so, where can I buy one, and what clock speeds do 
they come in

Mike
gilem@rpi.edu





Newsgroups: comp.sys.intel
From: tcmay@netcom.com (Timothy C. May)
Subject: Re: iAPX432 ??
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 92 01:13:23 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

stevep@lugh.se.hou.compaq.com (Steve Pinn) writes:

[stuff deleted]

: Tim, wasn't the 432 also ADA Microcoded? -Steve

I don't think so. Ada was a main part of it, but not for the
microcode. The Ada compiler, circa 1980-81 were developed by a
Hillsboro, Oregon team, and was one of the earliest Ada compilers.

(Programmers from Siemens came in around 1984-5 for the Gemini effort
and did much of the Ada development.)

--Tim
-- 
..........................................................................
Timothy C. May         | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,  
tcmay@netcom.com       | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
408-688-5409           | knowledge, reputations, information markets, 
W.A.S.T.E.: Aptos, CA  | black markets, collapse of governments.
Higher Power: 2^756839 | RSA MailSafe Public Key: by arrangement
Newsgroups: comp.sys.intel
Subject: Re: Why shouldn't I buy Cyrix
From: Spartacus At Cuny <I18BC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Tuesday, 8 Sep 1992 16:31:35 EDT
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center

In article <Bu9urG.7zu@nntp-sc.Intel.COM>, dmccart@gomez.intel.com (D. J.
McCarthy) says:
>
>The following are just my opinions and not Intel's.
>
>Daniel Moran (daniel.moran@pcb.batpad.lgb.ca.us) wrote:
>> jas37876@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (John A. Slagel) writes:
>>> I can, all things considered, upgrade my non-coprocessed 386-33,
>>> to the Cyrix 486-33 for ~$150.
>>> Is there problems with this chip ??
>> Ditto on that request. I'm extremely interested in this chip. My
>> understanding is that it does not have an on-board math coprocessor; but
>> I'm more interested in the cache and pipelining anyway. I'm running a
>> clone motherboard with a very recent AMI BIOS. Any comments? Anyone
>> who's done this upgrade?
>
>
>From what I've read, the Cyrix chip:
>
>1) Has a hardware multiplier instead of a full-blown math co-processor
>2) Has a 1K cache instead of the 8K on an Intel 486
>3) Is pin-compatible with Intel 386's, although you can't just pop out your
>   i386 and plop in the Cyrix chip; you will have to replace at least the
>   BIOS and probably the motherboard too.
>

     Yikes! A friend from school was thinking of upgrading his
Opti 386-25DX motherboard bought last November with the
Cyrix 486DLC chips.  He's running OS/2 on his machine right now.
Would anyone know if Cyrix offers a money back guarantee?
-------
------------------------------+      All The Best,
Reply To:                     |
                              |      Edward Galarza,
     I18BC@CunyVM.Cuny.Edu    |      Brooklyn College Of The
     I18BC@CunyVM.BitNet      |      City University Of New York
------------------------------+      "Que viva el OS/2!"
New accounts above 8-)
From: davidsen@ariel.crd.GE.COM (william E Davidsen)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.intel
Subject: Re: 8051 C compilier
Date: 11 Sep 92 14:11:22 GMT
Reply-To: davidsen@crd.ge.com (bill davidsen)
Organization: GE Corporate R&D Center, Schenectady NY

In article <1992Sep2.142851.27907@mcs.anl.gov> hoffberg@phebos.aps.anl.gov writes:

>There are two other companies that I know of which produce C
>compiliers for the 8051, Franklin and Keil Electronics (of Germany).
>Does anyone know of a US distributer for Keil Electronics?  Or of any
>other compiliers on the market?

  There was a free C compiler posted to one of the source groups within
the last six months. I know nothing about it, but at that price you
could look. Sorry, I didn't grab a copy, had no use for it.
-- 
bill davidsen, GE Corp. R&D Center; Box 8; Schenectady NY 12345
    I admit that when I was in school I wrote COBOL. But I didn't compile.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.intel
From: keith@ksmith.uucp (Keith Smith)
Subject: Re: Confused??? 486DX
Organization: Keith's Computer, Hope Mills, NC
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 92 04:01:01 GMT

In article <1992Sep10.034104.9879@nuscc.nus.sg> eletanjm@nuscc.nus.sg (TAN JIN MENG) writes:
>davidsen@ariel.crd.GE.COM (william E Davidsen) writes:
>: In article <14409@goanna.cs.rmit.oz.au>, s923257@yallara.cs.rmit.OZ.AU (Chew Ming Ean) writes:
[...]
>
>On the other hand, EISA motherboards (in my country) cost about US$500
>more only. Plus you can upgrade to EISA peripherals incrementally.

Gee "ONLY" a half grand.  Ahem.  Also forget anything but an EISA HD
controller on an EISA M/B for anything but DOS.

>
>: 
>:   I use both ISA and EISA, and EISA config is a royal pain in the ...
>: ear. Under normal single user load, and particularly with DOS, you will
>: be able to measure the boost, but probably not feel it.
>
>Yep. With DOS - not much diff in the normal case. One the other hand,
>OS/2 and NT (and Solaris , and NextStep) are coming up. You might want
>to get a [real man's OS ;-)] capable machine.

Not much real difference there either.  Most people don't buy SCSI-II
disk arrays and such so the bus is not really a bottleneck.  Expect to
see onboard graphics stuff soon, and local bus for video, *OR* video
coprocessor cards (My clone Distributor sells 2 now for Windows) that
will again reduce the ISA bus bottleneck's significance.

>
>One of the very real limitations regards these 32bit OSes that has been
>exposed by OS/2 is the 16MB physical addressing limitation of the ISA
>bus. ie. the DMA controllers can only access up to 16MB of physical
>memory. OS/2 on [most] ISA machines therefore uses only the bottom 16MB
>for process memory and any memory above that for page cache!
>

Nah, OS/2 is just broken in this respect then.  SCO & I beleive SVR4
reserve RAM <16MB for ISA DMA and copy up if need be.  Pretty simple
concept here IMHO.  Then you can CRAM as much RAM as you want in the box
and still use ISA controllers.  Again,  The bottlenecks aren't the BUS,
but generally the DISKS themselves.

>: bill davidsen, GE Corp. R&D Center; Box 8; Schenectady NY 12345
>:     I admit that when I was in school I wrote COBOL. But I didn't compile.
>
>jin meng
-- 
Keith Smith          uunet!ksmith!keith            5719 Archer Rd.
Digital Designs      BBS 1-919-423-4216            Hope Mills, NC 28348-2201
Somewhere in the Styx of North Carolina ...
Newsgroups: comp.sys.intel
From: tching@target.water.ca.gov (Tracy Ching <SysAdmin>)
Subject: Re: 8051 C compilier
Organization: California State University, Sacramento
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 15:32:08 GMT

In article <1992Sep13.015451.9044@uwm.edu> markh@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Mark) writes:
>In article <1992Sep2.142851.27907@mcs.anl.gov> hoffberg@phebos.aps.anl.gov writes:
>I strongly suggest learning the 8051 and its language.  Using C to do 8051
>programming is a lot like using Roman Numerals to do Calculus.

	hello mark... thanks for the 8051 code and stuff... but on to
the issue.  I agree "strongly suggest learning the 8051" but "using C ...
Roman numerals.."  should be "using an hp 41CX doing numerical integration
to do calculus" is more appropriate.  It gets the job done - sometimes
not as efficient as can be, but it does it.  In most cases the code runs
slower than assembler, but the code can be written much faster if the
person is 8051 illiterate.  (but yes, hardware and software debugging
becomes an issue if the person is 8051 H.W. & S.W. illiterate).  Many
seminars and mag articles have been given about C vs assembler for micro
controllers/uP's.
	O.K. enuf of my $.02.  Did you know that Intel's IDCX-51 (real
time OS for the 8051) is in the pub domain?  I tried it out... pretty
neat stuff.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.intel