HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: steven@cray.com (Steven Levine)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Ah, Fashion.
Date: 4 Oct 92 18:30:35 GMT
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.

Oh goody, we've hit one of my hot buttons.  Now I, too,
can escalate a pointless conversation to wildly inappropriate
emotional heights!

In article <1992Oct2.210635.22012@panix.com>
ro@panix.com (r l reid) writes to Jess Anderson, but I'll
answer anyway:

>You LIKE ironing?

Yes, I do.  I have an extensive collection of heavy non-steam
irons from the thirties and forties, which enable me to iron stiff
cotton and linen better than any modern steam iron I've ever tried.
I associate ironing with bad television, and small blissful stress-free
blocks of time of which I seem to have fewer and fewer every year.

obmotss:  I have been told that men who iron tend to be gay.  I
am one data point.  Let's set Arthur Hu on this quesion.

The real reason I like ironing, though, is that I associate it
with the comfort of cotton.  I have never been able to wear
polyester next to my skin, and all though elementary school
and jr. high I displayed a geeky cotton t-shirt under my
school shirts.  I couldn't have told you why at the time, but
I knew that I couldn't stand just the outer shirt alone.
Shirts then (late 60's/early 70's) nearly always contained
polyester, much more so than now (though there is still often
a problem finding all-cotton children's clothes).

Then came 1972 or so, and cotton shirts from India became popular
even unto the far reaches of suburbia.  *These* shirts I could wear
alone.  These shirts my mother complained about my buying, because she
had to iron them.  But I had found clothing that did not give
me itchy red bumps around my neck and a general sense of
unpleasant prickliness around my torso.  So I ironed them myself.

Stupidly enough, it took me several years to realize that
it was polyester that had been causing me problems.  I
thought there was just something nice about the Indian fabric
in particular.

> I appreciate cotton, but for a nice crisp white
>shirt with a perfect collar (is it fashion?  Depends on who's
>wearing it!           When I wear a white shirt, I WEAR it), there's
>nothing like 35% poly - when the dryer stops, you pull it out,
>give it a quick *SNAP*, hang it, and an hour later the blessed
>thing has ironed itself!

And then, after two or three washings, you start to get little pills
of fabric.  And no matter how many times you wash it, it never really
gets soft and comfortable.

It's one of those Princess and the Pea things.  We all have peas
in our life which keep us tossing and turning with discomfort,
black and blue from the irritation.  Those who don't feel our
particular pea insist that a pile of downy mattresses should
offer ample protection.  And they never believe our complaints.

>Or do you, like most men who do not live with women, send your shirts
>"out"?

This is a strange statement.  I send some of my shirts out, yes.
My rule is that I will afford myself the luxury of sending shirts
out if I wore them to work.  It's sort of a commuting expense.

-Steven
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: dbidwa@sei.cmu.edu (Daniel Bidwa)
Subject: Re: CABAL stuff
Keywords: vegetarian, supercalifragilisticexpialidocius (sp?)
Organization: Software Engineering Institute
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 18:45:08 GMT

Melinda Shore (shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu):
>If you're concerned about how animals die, then you MUST be concerned about
>how they live, too. 

Well, maybe. Obviously, there are lots of different reasons that people don't
eat meat. I don't eat mainly because I think raw (dead) meat is kind of 
repulsive -- no logical explanation; it just pushes buttons that I'd prefer to
leave unpushed. I agree with many of the other arguments for vegetarianism,
but they're only excess rationalization that I'm much less concerned about. I
have no problems wearing leather, for instance (although, strangely enough, I
did find myself flinching at buying motorcycle gloves made from elk leather,
but not at buying deerskin gloves; I think it's because (at least in
Pennsylvania, where many rural public schools will have a day off on the first
day of deer hunting season) the natural deer population has been so incredibly
warped by the game commission that deer are something akin to very speedy
cows, whereas I don't think elk populations have been mucked with quite so
badly). If it was possible to live a vegan lifestyle on my shoestring budget,
I probably would, but it's just not possible in Pittsburgh (and there's no
vegan substitute for ice cream that's even close to being acceptable, so
forget it :-).   
 
The point of this rambling: no, I don't have to be concerned about how animals
live just because I consider myself vegetarian. Besides, as Jess(?) said in an
earlier post, some dairy cows live pretty good lives (for cows), although I
think this is more typical of small farms (like the one where my family used
to buy milk; you brought your own containers and got them filled in a shed
tacked onto the side of the barn, where the big stainless milk machinery was
kept; 100% all-the-fat unpasturized (you could skim the cream off and make
butter) near-ice-cold milk) than large factory-style farm operations. 
Dunno who this all means I'm agreeing with.

Hey, Jojo's not been here lately, so someone has to ramble.

Dan

_____________________________________________________________________________
Dan Bidwa                             I believe nothing and in nothing.
dbidwa@sei.cmu.edu       !disclaim!   I believe everything and in everything.
From: laura@hoptoad.uucp (Laura Creighton)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Ours flamb'e
Date: 3 Oct 92 12:38:00 GMT
Reply-To: laura@hoptoad.UUCP (Laura Creighton)
Organization: Nebula Consultants in San Francisco

In article <!!_p-ar.jfh@netcom.com> jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton) writes:
>In article <66703@cup.portal.com> Minotaur@cup.portal.com (Frank - Swilling) 
>writes:
>>
>>You got that right, bud.  That heat wave in San Francisco
>>yesterday was radiating out from my house.
>
>OK, folks, stop upsetting Frank.  It was a record-high-for-the-date 93 
>degrees yesterday.  That might not seem so bad compared to, say, Phoenix, 
>but the mean temperature in San Francisco in September is 64 degrees. 

Oh, hell, and I thought it was my 106 degree fever which was
driving it all up. rats! glad to get back, gang...

Laura

-- 
    Since Ryan White was buried in April 1990, his grave has been vandalized
    four times.

    (this news courtesy Rod Williams rjwill6@pacbell.com)

Laura Creighton 
toad@toad.com
hoptoad!laura
From: schiles@valentine.us.oracle.com (Suzanne Chiles)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Redemption
Keywords: lost muffinhood
Date: 29 Sep 92 20:21:25 GMT
Reply-To: schiles@us.oracle.com
Organization: Office Automation Division
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

What a beautiful piece, Brent.  Thank you for writing it and thank you
for sharing it with us all.

I love you.

Suzanne
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Suzanne Chiles				schiles@us.oracle.com
415-506-6194				Oracle Corporation
		      Honor Diversity
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: aberson@enh.nist.gov
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: RE: astrology and YOU
Date: 1 Oct 92 19:28:41 GMT
Organization: NIST

In a previous article, kane@buast7.bu.edu (Hot Young Star) wrote:
>MOTSS Relevance? In my single days, telling men about my profession
>(astronomy) was always a conversation starter. Often my interest fizzled
>when they replied, "Oh, I just adore astronomy. What's your sign?"

Obviously the same people who asked me about meteors.

       Sim Aberson   Ft. Lauderdale, FL   aberson%3328.span@sdsc.edu
"It's always Beach Party Barbie, or Malibu Barbie....  That shit does not
prepare you for the true horror of a real woman's life.  Where is Single,
Abused, Trailer-Park Barbie?"             - Roseanne Arnold
From: Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: CABAL stuff
Date: Fri,  2 Oct 92 22:17:14 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <66967@cup.portal.com> <BvIEH1.Fu8@unix.amherst.edu>

Tim Pierce whines:
>>As long as you realize that *my* conception of "a nice plate of
>>pasta" consists of (1) pasta, (2) *LOADS* of garlic butter, and
>>(3) just a *bit* of grated Parmesan.
>
>I see.  I presume that your conception of "a night on the town" would
>consist of a screening of FANTASIA and a Coke at the corner drugstore?

Do you have something against *GARLIC BUTTER*, or what?

For the record, I'm a Lacto-Ovo-Vegetarian [or as a friend of mine
puts it, I "don't eat Dead Animal Body"].  Any kind of sauce with
meat in it is *RIGHT* out; aside from a bit of catsup on my french
fries, I'm not particularly into tomatoes, and since I'm not 
particularly fond of cilantro, most varieties of pesto are out.

[Oops... couple words missing above.  I didn't mean to imply I
think there are tomatoes in pesto...(!) I was thinking of various
tomato-based sauces....]

Besides, I think the main point in "a nice plate of pasta" is,
amazingly enough, THE PASTA.  Not umpteen kinds of bizzare goop
to put ON the pasta. Simple, ordinary garlic butter is enough for
me.

Lastly, since what we're talking about is so CLEARLY a matter of
personal taste, I think it shows a great deal of geekiness on your
part to insult me on the basis of what I like to eat.  Shall we
set a place for you over next to Melmac?


 
() The problem with people who have no vices is that
() generally you can be pretty sure they're going to have
() some pretty annoying virtues.
()      -- Elizabeth Taylor
-----
[> George D. Madison | NBCS: B8f+t+w-e+s+k+a!cv | Just say NO to razors! <]
[> It's a BEAR thing -- you wouldn't understand. <|> furr@cup.portal.com <]
From: michael@resonex.com (Michael Bryan)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Terre Haute (Was Re: Faggots)
Date: 28 Sep 92 08:14:08 GMT
Article-I.D.: resonex.1992Sep28.081408.2153
Organization: Resonex Inc., Sunnyvale CA

In article <1992Sep27.033643.13046@cs.rose-hulman.edu> serranrj@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Robert J Serrano) writes:
>In article <1992Sep25.123321.6773@resonex.com> michael@resonex.com  
>(Michael Bryan) writes:
>> "Lovers are like... dentures.  You don't want them in your     |
>
>No, please stop.  You make me feel so left out, being as how I'm in Terre  
>Haute, where the only sexual activity comes about if you own either a  
>Harley or a Monster Truck, and I'm still below the drinking age, so I  
>can't even _go into_ the town's one [gay] bar.

Hey, I did my eight years in Terre Haute, including four at RHIT, so why
should you get to be any different?  ;-)  And trust me, "R Place" (the
lone gay bar) isn't *that* great.  Once I was of legal bar age, I
preferred to go to the various bars in Indy, or Chester Street in
Champaign/Urbana.  *Much* more enjoyable, and only 60 to 90 miles away.

And you can always do like me:  graduate from Rose, work a bit in
Terre Haute, and then move to the Silicon Valley, withing easy range
of San Francisco.  I'd recommend skipping the "work a bit in TH" part,
though...  ;-)

-- 
Michael Bryan  michael@resonex.com  "Milk and Cheese in '92!"  |     ,_,
"Lovers are like... dentures.  You don't want them in your     |    /oo \
mouth all night, but you sure as hell want them within arm's   |    <>__|
reach in the morning!"  --- Miss Almira Gulch                  |    |  U|
From: richard@Apple.COM (a flying squirrel)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Ah, Fashion.
Date: 5 Oct 92 20:32:30 GMT
Organization: Xiola Blue

Steve Dyer writes:

>A desire for novelty and style (in any endeavor) is just plain human
>nature.  I don't see what's the matter with that.  Fashion is just one
>facet of this.

>Just WHO is being a slave to fashion?  Who is throwing out their
>wardrobe?  Who really cares?  And why should you?

Nail.  Head.  Bang.  Precisely my motivations for reprinting that silly
article here in the first place.

While lunching with Matthew today, I confessed my true evil delight with
the "Waxing" article: only in America do we have so many insecure people
that could run chasing fashion from one cheaply gilded toadstool to the
next.

Matthew almost got it right when he chanted, "Armani is God and Madonna
is his prophet."  In fact, it should be: Mammon is God and Armani is his
profit.
-- 
a flying squirrel is: richard@apple.com  Apple Computer Inc.

i'm your girl            friend
i'm your squirrel        friend
i'm your round the world friend

cruising: vidi, vici, veni.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: bcapps@agora.rain.com (Brent Capps)
Subject: Re: Favorite foods in the White House (was Re: Faggots)
Organization: Open Communications Forum
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 17:32:12 GMT

nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:

>In article <17670@autodesk.COM> randyc@autodesk.com (Randy Clark) writes:
>>the incongruous image of an *un*comfortable erection

>size queen.

>I tend to get "uncomfortable erections" in class. I get bored
>listening to the lecture, and my mind starts to wander, and pretty
>soon I'm sitting here in this class with an itch I can't scratch.
>When I'm not in class I'm either too busy or too tired to engage my
>libido.
>                __
>nelson@reed.edu \/  Homosexuals were invented for an episode of Barney Miller

The next time you find yourself in this predickament, you just give me a
holler and I'll come and make that itch *all better*.  After all, one good
deserve turns another.

-- 
Brent Capps           | 
bcapps@agora.rain.com | Know what to kiss, and when
bcapps@atlastele.com  |
From: Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: CABAL stuff
Date: Sun,  4 Oct 92 16:45:59 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <67170@cup.portal.com> <1992Oct4.202357.28433@gordian.com>

Michael Thomas postures:
>  You know, I always thought that bears were omnivorous. You know,
>[...]
>  Turn in your card.

HA!

You're not even a *MEMBER* of the BearCabal, much less one of the 
Ruling Ursines.
 
() If U can't take the smoke, get back to the disco....
()      -- BearBoy
-----
[> George D. Madison | NBCS: B8f+t+w-e+s+k+a!cv | Just say NO to razors! <]
[> It's a BEAR thing -- you wouldn't understand. <|> furr@cup.portal.com <]
From: Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Madonna bashing
Date: Thu,  1 Oct 92 19:34:35 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <66964@cup.portal.com> <1992Oct1.174202.12591@netcom.com>

Stephen Arrants writes:
>>Firstly, I'm disappointed that you didn't come over and say hi.
>
>I was busy.  We were all busy.  We were inside the bar in
>the back, doing something that all of us learned how to do
>in the scouts.  Surely you saw the six of us in a circle.

I was never in the Scouts, but I managed to learn anyway. And I
may well have seen you, but I don't recall it; I'm sure if it
had registered on me what you were doing, I would have
remembered.

>Hmm....Well, OK......But honestly, it was so crowded outside
>I don't see how anyone would have room to do anything.

The most interesting part was done while it was too busy for the
bar staff to bother with us, but before the place got PACKED.

>Too bad we didn't meet up. We had a bear caravan go upt to our 
>house at the River after the Lone Star. Really stress-tested
>the hot tub!

Ah, Bear Soup, one of my favorite dishes.  ;-{)##]  I'm sorry
I didn't meet up with you too; after a day of tramping about
(in a variety of ways), a nice hot-tub soak would have been
bliss.
 
() The only problem with groups that have all the answers is
() that they don't allow any questions.
-----
[> George D. Madison | NBCS: B8f+t+w-e+s+k+a!cv | Just say NO to razors! <]
[> It's a BEAR thing -- you wouldn't understand. <|> furr@cup.portal.com <]
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: schiles@valentine.us.oracle.com (Suzanne Chiles)
Subject: Re: Phyllis Schlafly Still Doesn't Get It
Reply-To: schiles@us.oracle.com
Organization: Office Automation Division
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 20:18:46 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <1992Sep30.172545.1483@tc.cornell.edu>,
shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore) writes:
|>In article <1992Sep30.170443.29422@PacBell.COM>
rjwill6@pbsdts.sdcrc.pacbell.com (Rod Williams) writes:
|>|"That's what we've had in this country for 20 years," Schlafly
|>|said, "a nonjudgmental description of all kinds of sex acts
|>|with demonstrations of how to do it, and with an attempt to
|>|break down the natural modesty of the girls."
|>
|>I feel cheated.  Is it too late to return to high school?
|>--
Yes, but if you're in the bay area, come on over and we can break down
our collective modesty together.  Maybe a sleep-over for some of our
modest friends.  :)


|>       Melinda Shore - Cornell Theory Center - shore@tc.cornell.edu
         
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Suzanne Chiles				schiles@us.oracle.com
415-506-6194				Oracle Corporation
		      Honor Diversity
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: georgere@microsoft.com (George V. Reilly)
Subject: Re: demuffining
Date: 30 Sep 92 03:06:57 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

dauber@tattoo.mti.sgi.com (Jeff Dauber) fibs:
) Hi!  My name is Jeff and this is my first posting to soc.motss
) so don't flame me!!!  

) I am angry to see so many flames.  Why can't you people be nice to
) each other!!! All these icky names being used!!!! How dare you!!!!!
) All these nice people being insulted by these mean "cabal" people!!!!
) How dare you!!! You should be ashamed!!!!!!

) Shouldn't we all speak out against these bear codes?  I mean, don't
) they re-inforce all these stereotypes.  I mean, how can we ever expect
) the normal world to accept us if we behave this way!!!!!

I think all the blue ink from Jeff's tattoos has turned
him into a ... a ... SMURF!
________________
George V. Reilly   <GeorgeRe@Microsoft.Com>
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: First No on 9 TV ad in Oregon
Date: 30 Sep 92 09:05:27 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Sep30.090527.13892
Reply-To: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

The first No on 9 television ad started airing in Oregon this week. I
haven't seen it (television doesn't figure heavily in my life), but
from all accounts it sounds quite good. Here's how the Oregonian
described it (spin - the Oregonian is generally quite conservative,
but they're firmly against Measure 9.)

From Tuesday Sept. 29, 1992 Oregonian, page B4:

  As a camera pans over a parchment bearing the Oregon Constitution, a
  pair of hands cuts the document with scissors and begins editing the
  constitution. The word "equality" is crossed out. A line is drawn
  through "freedom of speech." The words "abnormal, perverse, and
  unnatural" are added in red marker. The phrase "State must
  discriminate" is written across the bottom and the document's title
  is changed to read "Constitution of the state of the OCA". The
  narrator reads this text:

    Look at what the religous extremists of the OCA want to do to our
    constitution. If Measure 9 passes, we'd take away citizens'
    rights. No state's ever done that. We'll be forced to
    discriminate. Our Constitution will contain embarassing language
    that we'll have to teach our youngest children. The OCA. They call
    themselves the religious right. But really, they're the religious
    wrong. Vote No on 9. It's not just dumb, it's dangerous.

Sounds good to me: I'm looking forward to seeing it myself.

The Oregonian mentions something, and I will too: the ad never once
says "gay" or "lesbian" or "homosexual". Whether this is a mistake or
not is hard to say. (there's a history here, but I don't think it's
worth relating..)
                __
nelson@reed.edu \/     What in this room is alive and what doesn't have life?
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik)
Subject: Re: Them New Faces (Was: Re: As long as you're still here)
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 10:56:55 GMT
Organization: (getting there)

markm@ogicse.ogi.edu (Mark Morrissey) makes me blush:
 >One of the many, many things I love about Mara is how, even though she
 >might not be the best at lists, she is fabulous at not slighting
 >people.

You burn yourself and others often enough, you get careful around
matches.

No kidding.  

The first time I remember committing this kind of gaffe was in high
school.  I needed to to a quick promo piece for the school paper
about the production of _Annie Get Your Gun_ that we were doing.  I
left out a good friend-- my closest friend in the cast, as it
happens, and also the person most likely to be hurt by being left
out.  She was playing a big enough part that there was no excuse for
my not including her.

Ob. motss content:  She came out to me about ten years ago.  
I've mentioned her here before.  Another one of the leads is also
out now-- I wrote about him too, after our visit to San Francisco
last summer.

 >One of the true joys about the con this year was sitting on
 >the beach enjoying her *fabulous* company.  Now that my mind can see
Note the spelling.  I can aspire to only one 'a' (as in anatomy).
 >her face and enjoys her voice, I enjoy these posts all the more.

Why, thank you, Mark.  I love the process of turning screens full
of characters into human beings, myself.  It makes the experience of
reading news and mail very much less tentative.  (I started to
write "richer," but that's not really true.  But I feel different
about reading stuff from people I've seen and/or heard.  I stand
more of a chance of getting out of it what they intended me to.)

I want to make special noises about some of the new women's voices
that I've seen here.  And now I have the double dilemma-- not only
do I not want to leave anyone out, but I don't want to mention
someone as new who has actually been around as long as I have.  That
has nothing to do with sparing _her_ feelings-- it's my own amour
propre.  (Actually, I suspect that there are also people who've been
in other groups-- soc.bi, say-- but whom I don't yet really know from
soc.motss.)  And I'm still waiting for more from a couple who've been
hanging around the edges.  


Mara  [who knows this is disjointed and apologizes]
-- 

  Mara Chibnik
  mara@panix.com                Life is too important to be taken seriously.

Xref: sparky soc.motss:40837 ca.politics:8237
From: Arthur_T_Hu@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: soc.motss,ca.politics
Subject: Northern Exposure
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 11:00:41 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

What did you folks think of the Northern Exposure featuring the pair of
evidently (but not in so many words) lesbian women who transformed their
sleepy town of savages into the vibrant community it is today? I thought
it was a touching and moving story, but with all the brouhaha that the
appearance of gays of prime-time usually gets on the press, what happened
to all the controversy here?
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton)
Subject: Re: enough already.
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 06:37:40 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.163456.23593@sun0.urz.uni-heidelberg.de> 
gsmith@euterpe.uucp (Gene W. Smith) writes:
>
>Naah.  They should start with Parsival, and even more patience. 
>Buckets of the stuff.

For the last year or so, there's been an inverse relationship between
length and boredom in San Francisco Opera productions.  War and Peace,
William Tell, and Boris Gudenov were fascinating all the way through.  I've
forgotten the names of the boring ones. 

-- 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Hamilton   jfh@netcom.com   P. O. Box 281107   SF, CA   94128-1107