HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gt9414b@ferrari.uucp (Wing-Cheong William Man)
Subject: Re: Hello from news reader in China
Organization: Computer Engineering Group, Georgia Tech, Atlanta, GA 30332-0250
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 16:17:34 GMT

In article <9224512.27022@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU> dht@cs.mu.OZ.AU (Joyous Dave baby) writes:
>Hey, guys and girls,
>
>I think we have side-tracked.  My original post was a list of suggestions
>on how to help China grow into a stronger superpower.
>
>Then, people started flaming... and the discussion ended up another Tibet
>debate.
>
>Can people please post suggestions to the question "Ways to help China
>grow into a stronger superpower".. please???
>

Why being a superpower? We need not to be a superpower to live happily
and peacefully. I think what we need in China is a political system which
protect human rights, freedom of speech and encourage production.

>Chinese people have been a grain of sand for the past x000 years... today
>(and yesterday), I start to see what it means.....
>
>stop flaming each other.... think practically please, for Chinese's sake!
>

I do learn a lot from these "flames".

>-- 
>1)-----------------------Rev 6:8 "... They were given authority over a quarter
>of the Earth, to kill by the sword, by famine, by plague, and wild beasts."

William Man
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
		   Georgia Institute of Technology
      School of Electrical Engineering, Atlanta, GA  30332-0250
		    E-MAIL: gt9414b@eecom.gatech.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: s9874194@phobos.ucc.umass.edu (s9874194)
Subject: Re: [News] PRC Announces Further Loosened Policies on Overseas Students
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 14:14:00 GMT

In article <BtoMK1.4KK@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>, xiong@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Bo Xiong) writes...
>My feeling after reading the People's Daily news is exactly the same as 
>that of mine when I read it before on same topics:  The further away 
>(physically and geographically) a Chinese from the Communist party, the 
>BETTER the party will treat the Chinese.  If the party has NO control of 
>you, you'll be treated as "superior Chinese", if the party has full control 
>of you, you are just a piece of Chinese sh*t in the eyes of the CCP!  
>No wonder there are some Fa-Guo-Nan-Cai guys who stay overseas and 
>ass kiss CCP :-)
> 
>Be serious, the question remains:  
> 
>Would there be such a "nice, loose and grace" policy towards overseas CSS
>WITHOUT the lobby-for/passage-of Protection Bills by CSS in the U.S.A., 
>Germany, Japan and Australia, and without the "Lenincy Program" offered to 
>CSS by Canadian government????  
> 
>Remember how hard those J-1 students cried for elimination of their 
>two-year-home-stay-requirement but got nowhere in 1987-1988 in the U.S. 
>and the Chinese government then even tightened the policy towards 
>overseas CSS ???
> 
>Please don't tell me that it's because of the "reform" in China or "support
>Deng for his reform", that kind of garbage doesn't make your visa changed
>from J-1 to H-1/F-1/greencard/be able to stay overseas :-)
> 
>And, it's really amazing to see some CSS raising their right hands to grab
>green card, and raising their left hands to ass kiss CCP/support "Deng's
>reform"/paint Deng as an "innocent old man" in June 4th Beijing Massacre.
> 
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
>Bo Xiong in Chicago
=============================================================================
I agree with you that your J-1 visa can be changed to H-1/F-1 was not the
result of the "Reform" policy of China. But, do not fool yourself. Chinese
government has totally no control of your visa at all. What made your
visa CONVERTABLE was the blood of your brothers and sisters, as well as
the power struggle between the US Congress and the Administration.
CORC (A Conservative Old-fashion Republican Communist, sounds wierd?)
From: dhsy@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Questions about "Shen Tong (grabbed)"
Date: 4 Sep 92 12:34:45 EDT
Distribution: soc
Organization: Cornell University

yeh@netix.com (Mr Shannon Yeh) writes: 
> I do not know who Shen Tong is, but have some simple questions about his/her 
> arrest:
> 
> 1.  Is Shen Tong the only person visiting China recently?  If not, why the
>     Chinese government did not arrest others?
> 
> 2.  Do you watch news each night?  If so, how many Americans get arrested per 
>     day?  Did the Chinese government and the Chinese people get 
>     Da(big)Jing(surprise)Xiao(small)Guai(starnge) on these American arrests?
> 
> 3.  My brother, for example, stays in CHina.  Why the Chinese government did 
>     not arrest him?
> 
> 4.  Some of my friends travel back and forth between the US and CHina almost
>     on monthly basis.  Why the Chinese government did not arrest them?
> 
> 5.  Neither the Chinese government nor the US government likes to arrest me.
>     Why?  I understand that I may mean nothing to some gocernments.  But to
>     show you mean something, you do not have to be in custody.
> 
> 6.  Being protected by someone or by some organization or by some governments
>     is not a hero thing.  Agree?  If those d-fighters are really
>     Niu(bufflo)Pi(skin)Hong(bomb)Hong(bomg), why didn't they arrest those
>     CCP guys instead of being arrested by CCP?
> 
> 7.  Being mouth-ly strong only, does not fix anything.  Agree?
> 
> 
> shannon
> -------


   To clear up your mind, you only need to understand two points.

1.  China has political crimes punishable by law, which are condemned (in
    other words, the very existence of those laws are condemned) by the
    international community.

    One very obviouse example of a political crime:  "counter-revolutionary
    propaganda and instigation crime".

    In the US, for instance, this very crime is protected by the First
    Amendment of the Constitution.

2.  Shen Tong is NOT arrested.  "Arrest" is a legal term, both in Chinese
    and in English, which underlines certain legal procedures.  Shen Tong is
    GRABBED, which means illegal abduction, both in Chinese and in English.
    There's another term/procedure "detention" that frequetly used in China,
    but Shen Tong is not even officially "detained".  He's just "grabbed"!!

dhsy@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
From: yong@minster.york.ac.uk
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Chinese reform (1980 - 1991)
Date: 27 Aug 92 13:54:04 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of York, England

Chinese reform (1980 - 1991)

	China GNP		GNP per capita
1980 	US$81.27 billions	US$82.90
1991	$356 billions		$307.45
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: s9874203@titan.ucc.umass.edu (s9874203)
Subject: Re: Bringing Down The Great Wall (part II)
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 23:48:56 GMT

Portrait of Chinese dissidents:

Chi1 Ren2jia0 de Zui3 Ruan3,
Na2 Ren2jia0 de Shou3 Duan3.
From: yangze@acf3.NYU.EDU (Ze Yang, , , )
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Sources on Tibet
Date: 30 Aug 92 21:21:00 GMT
Organization: New York University

mlibucha@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Mark A Libucha) writes:

>	I especially welcome contributions from the following netters:

>	Yang Ze
>	Shi Chunde
>	Brian Lin

>	Thanks a lot. I'll be glad to forward a copy of the list to anyone
>who asks for it.

>Mark Libucha (mlibucha@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu)
Hello, Mr. Libucha, I am so glad that you put my name at 
the first place (I guess that's because my stringent arguments win
your trust:-)), but I am a little busy now, I cann't give 
you much help on this matter. Why don't we play something easier 
for you, you are from ohio, right? that remaind me of one speech 
made by Abraham Lincoln(Abraham Lincoln is Ex president of USA), 
if you can give me satisfactary answers about this speech, I might
give you some advise on your project. 
First, there are two version of the speech:
 "...At what point shall we expect approch of danger? Shall
we expect some transatlantic millitary giant to step the
ocean and crush us at a blow? Never, all the armies of Europe,
Asia and Africa combined, with all the treasure of the Earth 
and a Bonarpart as a commander, could not by force take a drink
from the OHIO or set a track on the Blue Ridge , in a
trial of a thouscand years. As a country of free men, we must
live through all time or die by suicide..."
another version:
 "..Whence shall we expect approch of danger? Shall we assume
some millitary giant to step the ocean and crush us at a blow?
Never, all the armies of Europe, Asia and Africa combined, could
not by force take a drink from the OHIO river, or set a track
on the Blue Ridge in a trial of a thousand years, as a nation
of free men, we must live for ever, or die by suicide..."
(Please ignore misspelling, that is intentionally left for Mr. Carl, 
I am sure every time he find a misspelling or grammar error, he
feels so exciting.:-) )
First question:
1) Which is the original version (by A.L.).
2) At what year Abraham Lincoln made the speech?
(Please don't post your answers before you have more that two
answers.)
If you cannot give me a satisfactory answer, I would say "
This guy is BULLSHIT, even don't know American History,
why bother to teach him our Chinese matter."
By the way, are you sure you are not related to CIT at all?
I am really concerned about this. (My taiwanese friends' 
club once visited by CIA, CIA offered help to them, I really
cannot afford this).
Ze Yang.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: utingli@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Tingli Pan)
Subject: Re: Could more light topics in China?
Organization: Educational Computing Network
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 17:11:34 GMT

In article <1992Aug28.012230.15615@ulowell.ulowell.edu> cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi) writes:
>In article <3019@ariel.its.unimelb.EDU.AU> jlam@ariel.ucs.unimelb.edu.au (Lord Automato) writes:
>>
>>
>>Perhaps the failing of sending a satellite has more news value than one is
>>successful, most of the time is successful anyway, what's new??
>U.S. blew up one $80 million dollar worth satellite yesterday, unreported.
>16 month ago, blew up one too.
>>
Maybe US has blown so many satellites, that it is not a news any more,
while a successeful launch is a real news.

>>Lin Can

Tingli Pan
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.hongkong,soc.culture.taiwan
From: s9874194@phobos.ucc.umass.edu (s9874194)
Subject: Re: I'm very disappointed in Chinese
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 14:33:00 GMT

In article <1992Sep1.113239.12546@cs.mu.OZ.AU>, dht@mulga.cs.mu.oz.au (Joyous Dave) writes...
>I'm very disappointed in Chinese people.
> 
>I want to improve China, improve its people's living standard,
>improve its productivity, improve its economy, improve its
>stand in the world.  And I asked people to contribute suggestions
>to how to improve China.
> 
>I got handful of constructive suggestions, but tons of noise and
>flames on ideological differences, history, general complains, or
>pure noise.
> 
>I feel that Chinese nowadays like to feel pride that they belong
>to the oldest civilization in the world which still exists; but
>when asked to do something to contribute, they hold back.
> 
>It seems that people don't care about China anymore, and lack
>a nationalist spirit (remember the songs you used to sing? like:
>"I am Chinese", "Desendants of Dragon", "Be a Brave Chinese"??)
>people become too comfortable in Western societies, and don't care
>less about helping their root, and blood brothers!
> 
>"Drink Water, Think Source"
> 
>Now, I really believe that Chinese are a grain of sand.  PLEASE PLEASE
>PLEASE prove me wrong by posting some suggestions on how to improve
>the country!
> 
>-- 
>1)-----------------------Rev 6:8 "... They were given authority over a quarter
>of the Earth, to kill by the sword, by famine, by plague, and wild beasts."
Hello, Joyce. Your disappointment could be justified by reading the SCC. As a
Chinese,(even though my father was not born in China, both he and I as
well as the other members of my family, still considering that we are
Chinese because we have the proud Chinese blood.) I feel disappointed and
shameful too even though I have read the SCC only for a few days. There
has been too much noise, too much flame. People attack each other using
indecent language. However, Chinese are not all the same. As you pointed
out, you still got some suggestive response (sorry, I was not one of them.)
even through that much noises. And remember that SCC is just a corner
of the whole Chinese community. As one netter pointed out before, it
is very messy and dirty. But it by no means that the whole Chinese 
community is messy and dirty. One way to change this is that we, every
body in this group, behave ourselves, be serious, be neat, be decent
and be respectful to the other people. If we keep a messy, dirty discussion
here, we can not set up a friendly and cooperative enviroment here,
(not necessarilly means that everybody has to agree with each other)
then, there is no way that these bench of people can do anything
helpful to the Chinese, to China as well as to the whole human being.
The purpose of the discussion here is supposed to be the exchange
of different ideas, not to be trying to convince the other people
that your ideas are absolutely write. Feel free to attack the ideas
but do not be personal.
Please, everybody. Behave yourself (including me)!
From: yongbai@physics.su.OZ.AU (Yongbai Yin)
Subject: Re: Hello from news reader in China
Organization: Sydney University Computing Service, Sydney, NSW, Australia
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 06:37:55 GMT



The question raised here is that a government can formulate
regulation for CSS against law?

        As far as I know, that one says, or does something "harmful" to our
"motherland" is criminal.  According to Chinese present laws, this crime
cannot absoved by mere person or government department, but a court.  The
announcement on new CSS policy can be easily torn off by next chinese
government, for example, the fifth generation government.

        In order to return safely, could we call for the government to
arrange " the rubber stamp", or the high court to offer an amnesty to CSS.
I believe this is important.
From: yangze@acf3.NYU.EDU (Ze Yang, , , )
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: WHAT ABOUT TIBET?
Date: 26 Aug 92 22:42:00 GMT
Organization: New York University

/* acf3:soc.culture.china / NGFZH@livid.uib.no /  6:59 pm  Dec 31, 1969 */
Hi Friends:
I just got back from Tibet. It was a Chinese Expedition to Mt. Qomolongma
(Sorry I don't use English name MT.Everest). I found a lot discussion about
Tibet and feel no time to read all of them even though they are really
interesting.
About the discussion I only want to give some facts.
(1) Our team should pay entrance fee to Mt. Qomolongma region.
(2) Everyone know that there is something called Family Plan in China, but
it is not found in Tibet. I met a Tibetan famer, Doji, who speaks Chinese.
He have three daughters and still want a son. (3) About the living standard,
Doji lives in Rongbuk valley leading to Mt. Qomolongma. He has three cows
(not yarks) and several tens of sheep. I belive that he is richer than some
Han famers living 100 kilometers north from Beijing. (4)I derectly ask him if
he likes Tibetan independence. He said NO and that after the independence
he would be forced to support monasteries qingke(a sort of weater) and
butter, and lamas and monks would be high class on them.
(5) In Xigaze, the second city in Tibet, I found Chinese soldiers
cleaning the streets in early morning(I have the picture). (6)
From a Xiegar County offical, I got that the gorvenment pays money to rebuild
monasteries. In fact, in Rongbuk monastery which is nearest to Mt. Qomolongma
and highest located in the world, there are 10 monks and 17 nuns now.
(7)Compared with two years ago when I was in Tibet, more new buidings are found
in Lahsa. In Zaxilunbu monastery, Xigaze, several new buiding has been
constructed and one is being building. Pudala Palace is being renewing too.
(8)In the army, armed police and police, there are alot Tibetans.
It is easy to find Tibetan armed policemen guarding the gate of Tibet
Autonomous Region Gorvenment.
(9) Finally, for me, a Han people, it is not easy to speak to Tibetans. Most
of Tibetans don't speak my language. And everywhere, I can see typical
Tibetan artworks and culture.

ZH
/* ---------- */
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: cive1gi@maggie.cc.uh.edu ( Xiang)
Subject: re:   [Info]  Visa  Application  in  China/Irregularities........
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1992 02:22:26 GMT


Are you chinese ? You are just a pig. Your opinion is not correct.Japanese  
killed our brothers ,raped our sisters in the world war II.Do you forget?
From: lix@thames.bu.edu (Xiaowen Li)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: More about toilet paper:-)
Date: 2 Sep 92 03:09:18 GMT
Organization: Boston University

A netter friend asked me through e-mail:
>I do not know whether it is offered freely today in pulib restrooms in China

I don't know either, my friends never wrote me on this:-) But three years
ago, when I was still in China, some young pals/gals might sit in
front of a public restroom, charg you 10 cents and give you some paper.
While in restroom of many institutes in BJ, there were paper holder but
frequently no paper. Thus it only helpped you to forget bringing your
own :-)  But I believe it was not because someone stole the paper, but
the one who was responsible to it did not check the supply frequently
enough. Though I did not really know.

--
From: exl0@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (Edwin X. Li)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: A New Fa-Guo-Nan-Cai Theory :-)  Re: A real story
Date: 28 Aug 92 14:32:21 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

In article <1992Aug26.214839.18126@ulowell.ulowell.edu>, cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Ch
unde Shi) writes:

>I at least do not fuck my motherland for personal gains.

oedipus complex? not for personal gain in a material sence but
maybe just a erotic fantacy of yours?
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: HZHANG@vm.poly.edu
Subject: Chance of financial aid at Polytechnic University
Organization: Polytechnic University
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 17:08:23 EST

There are a few chances of financial aid at Polytechnic University, Mechanical
Engineering (Thermal-Fluid) , Brooklyn, NYC. in Fall, 1992. please contact
       718-260-3810  Prof Kumer or
       email: sunil@thermal1.poly.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: 129.83.161.10 (H. Chao)
Subject: Re: Awards To Medalists, What A Waste!
Organization: MITRE
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 17:42:14 GMT

In article <1992Aug26.125500.804@unine.ch>, Congzhong.Wang@info.unine.ch
writes:
> 
> In article <92238.104240PXW10@psuvm.psu.edu>, PXW10@psuvm.psu.edu writes:
> From reports so far, a chinese Olympic gold medalist could get as many as
> 230,000 RMB yuan (80,000 from the government, 50,000 from a beverage factory
> in China, 100,000 from a Hongkong richman) not including a gold can promised
> by another soda factory. These money are wasted (well Almost). The winners
> surely deserve the awards. But these huge amount of money did not play the
> far more important role: inspiration of devotion to sports, more gold medals
> in the future. Just read the People's Daily, you will see why. They are so
> shy (or shame) to report the awards to athlets. Any article about awards
> was printed as less remarkable as possible. They just wished they could
> find tiny fond to print such reports.
> 230,000 yuan would stimulate many, many, many more people to train hard, to
> become better and better athlets. I have no doubts that those athlets thought
> more about the awards for themself than honors for the country when they were
> at the Game. I not blaming them. That is nothing wrong. I am just poiting out
> that money is reason people are working for. I am so disappointed that the
> chinese media didn't try their best to let every chinese know the awards those
> Olympic medalists got.
>> 
>> Peter

I am also disappointed that U.S. media didn't let people know the money of
the U.S. sport star made is too much.  BTW, the gold medalist in Spain can
get US$1,000,000.00, and the silver medalist in Taiwan can get
NT$5,500,000.00 (US$220,000.00).  Maybe Peter should sent them similar
messages, and suggest Clinton to raise a Sport/Entertainment Star Tax to
tax these rich stars and help our economics. 

Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: xiong@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Bo Xiong)
Subject: [UPI] SHEN Tong Arrest Was Confirmed
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 01:50:44 GMT

The following will be carried in Sept. 1's CND-Global

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 18:35:37 PDT
From: CND Source
Subject: it's confirmed

@@@  8/31 UPI Subject: Chinese dissident arrested
(CHARLES HUTZLER)
Date: 31 Aug 92 20:14:10 GMT

	A leading Chinese political dissident who fled to the United States
after the 1989 crackdown on student protesters at Tiananmen Square was
arrested Monday in Beijing after sneaking back into his homeland to
continue the pro-democracy movement, a colleague said.

	Shen Tong was arrested by police at his family's home around 1:30 p.
m. EDT, or 1:30 a.m. Tuesday in China, said Marshall Strauss, executive
director of the Newton, Mass.-based Democracy for China Fund, co-founded
by Shen.

	Strauss said he learned of Shen's arrest when he made a long-planned
telephone call from the Boston area to the dissident leader.

	``Shen Tong said, 'The police are here,''' Strauss said, and then
someone hung up the telephone. Strauss called back and Shen managed to
relay a pre-arranged code word signaling his arrest.

	Shen's immediate whereabouts could not be determined. A reporter for
the New York Times in Beijing called Shen's home but an unidentified
person answered, saying Shen was gone, Strauss said.

	A European television reporter at the home also may have been
detained, Strauss said.

	Shen's arrest came hours before he was to hold a news conference to
announce the setting up of a Democracy for China Fund office in China.

	As a 21-year-old Beijing University student, Shen helped put together
a negotiating team to talk with government officials during the pro-
democracy demonstrations in the spring of 1989. He fled China after the
brutal June 4 crackdown.

	While studying at Brandeis University in Waltham, Mass., Shen set up
the Democracy for China Fund to help continue the pro-democracy
movement.

	Shen entered China through the southern tourist resort of Guilin on
Aug. 5, Strauss said.

	Officials have known about Shen's return for about a week, when he
arrived at his family home near the Communist Party and government
office buildings, Strauss said. Shen had hoped that his high profile in
the West would protect him from official action, Strauss said.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Forwarded by Bo Xiong in Chicago
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: shu@sinix.UUCP (Leif Schumacher)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: The Future of China
Date: 27 Aug 92 07:11:18 GMT
Organization: SNI AG Muenchen, STO XS

For all out there who are interested in China I would like to start a new 
discussion on Chinas future. 

First I propose a few points of discussion:


THe CCP regime will not last forever. It will be followed (sooner or later) 
	by some form of government which is open and democratic.
	This will hapen either peacefully or through a revolution.

China does not have a democratic tradition.


The result of these points lead to the questions:

	1) How could this transition happen ?
	2) What type of government will follow ?
	3) How long and when will this transition occur ? 

 -------------------------------------------------------------------
 Leif Schumacher				shu.muc@sni-usa.com
 SNI AG - STO XS 322				
 Otto-Hahn-Ring 6				Tel: (0049) 89-636-43290
 W-8000 Muenchen 83				FAX: (0049) 89-636-42833
 Germany
 -------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.hongkong