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Date:         Fri, 10 Apr 1992 00:45:49 EDT
Reply-To:     Bill McGarry <wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com>
From:         Bill McGarry <wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com>
Subject:      Handicap Digest # 2567
X-To:         LHCAP <l-hcap@VM1.NODAK.EDU>

                          THE HANDICAP DIGEST

                               Issue # 2567

                           Tuesday, April 07, 1992

Today's Topics:


                                ******

                           Blink Talk Digest # 549

                              A c b convention
                               Ada & jury duty
                                   Survey
                           Voice computers or what
                           Voice computers or what
                           Blind fold the sighted
                         Unix Desktop Con  computers
                           Ada and money printing
                           Re: Braille translators
                                 Re: Survey


                                ******


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Subject: A c b convention
From: Tandy.Way@f6.n377.z1.fidonet.org (Tandy Way)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:377/6 - T.A.B.B., Tampa Fl


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

bruce I have used in a demonstration setting the arkenstone and the
kpr and there are things that one will read better than the other,
but it is a fact that the kpr costs more than it needs too it is a
typical blind rip off by a big coperation and that is where
arkenstone shines. kpr has the telesensory systems disease, get as
much as you can and get as much from the agencies as you can.
promise them anything to get the contract but don't worry about
ethics or delivery or support.

===
 * DeLuxe 1.21 #548sa * t!!!!

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Subject: Ada & jury duty
From: Stew.Bowden@f6.n377.z1.fidonet.org (Stew Bowden)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:377/6 - T.A.B.B., Tampa Fl


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

Scot: I haven't seen too many succewssful reasonable acomodation
suites when the expense was considered prohibitive. Hope the guy is
successful, but I am frankly sceptical.

===
 * SLMR 2.1a *

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Subject: Survey
From: Roy.Zuvers@f333.n280.z1.fidonet.org (Roy Zuvers)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:280/333 - Sound Advice BBS, Gladstone MO


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

Steve, I would have to come from the old school since I graduated
from a blind school in 1958.  I frankly cannot remember when they
required us to pour our own water or milk.  If you tried it and
messed up, you got a lot of flack from the supervisor and other
kids for being messy.  Therefore, you either perfected a way to do
it or a way to get some one else to do it for you.

For me, a combination of sound and weight for glasses of cold or
room temperature liquids was good. If the liquid was for me, a
finger over the edge was easy but sighted people get hung up on
this one so it is back to weight and sound if you are serving. With
hot liquid, a combination of sound and weight will work with some
extra experimenting.   Coffee in a big mug  will work with sound
after you have checked it out a little.  Obviously, the burned
finger test is not pleasant.  It really does come down to
experience.  I don't have trouble pouring liquids but my wife who
lost her sight later in life does have a problem especially with
hot liquids.

On a related subject Steve, the blind folding thing and this survey
brings another point up.  I was accused the other day of not being
well adjusted because I said that I didn't like cafeterias,
especially those that have those islands where you go here for one
thing and over there for another and some where else for a drink
and then back yonder some where to pay. I made the mistake of
sayibng that as a totally blind person, I do not go to those places
alone.  A superblink was quickly on my case and I bet you don't
have to guess from what organization.

I even went further and said that as a totally blind person, I
didn't like sallad bars by myself.  How in the world are you going
to figure out which of the fifty items are  where.  I guess you
could grope and sniff but some one behind you might not like that.

Oh well, it is all interesting.  I will look forward to the
responses. Roy Zuvers

===
 * DeLuxe 1.21 #6289  If you smoke after sex, you're doing it too fast..

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Internet: Roy.Zuvers@f333.n280.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Voice computers or what
From: Bryna.Stevens.@hnews.fidonet.org f8.n10.z1 (Bryna Stevens 914/216)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:10/8 - The RBBS-NET Gatewa, Colton CA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

-> If they have >some< sight, a Macintosh might do them better because
-> you

I think this person has some sight, but he says it's getting worse.
I have an Amiga and that works OK because I can get larger fonts on
the monitor. For some reason a Mac didn't do too well for me. I
don't own a Mac but tried playing a game on someone's. My neck hurt
and I had trouble seeing things on the screen. Sometimes you never
know till you try something.

-> Stuff like that's also available for the IBM Personal COmputer (and
-> 100% compatibles, of course), if you can deal with running
-> Windows, which is a hellish process in and of itself.

What's wrong with Windows? I thought it might be something like the
Amiga which works from icons? Some people say it wouldn't work as
well, but others say that's not true. What's the problem using
Windows, if you know.

 # Origin: Coconino County BBS *415-861-8290* San Francisco, CA (8:914/216)

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Subject: Voice computers or what
From: Roy.Zuvers@f333.n280.z1.fidonet.org (Roy Zuvers)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:280/333 - Sound Advice BBS, Gladstone MO


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

Bryna, the largest number of speech packages is available for IBM
compatibles. You can expect to pay from $350.00 and up for speech.
In most cases you will need a synthesizer and screen review
software combination. Many of us can answer more specific
questions. Roy Zuvers

===
 * DeLuxe 1.21 #6289  Strike any user when ready

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Subject: Blind fold the sighted
From: Steve.Matzura@f203.n2603.z1.fidonet.org (Steve Matzura)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:2603/203 - The Shop Mail Only, Flushing NY


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 > SM> with the worst case of misunderstanding.  I just don't think
 > SM> that putting a 'fold on someone for five or ten minutes is going
 > SM> to help anyone, especially when cameras are rolling and people
 > SM> are gawking.  We are misunderstood enough, this would only
 > SM> further the problem, not the cause.

 > Why do you say this?

Why do I say what?  That we're misunderstood?  Are you blind, or
just crazy?  If you're blind, then how many times have you been in
a restaurant with sighted people, and the waitron comes over and
says "What would >he< like?"  How many times have you had your cane
grabbed or your dog's harness handle grabbed practically out of
your hands in the name of someone trying to help you go somewhere
they want you to go but which has no relation whatsoever to where
>you< want to be going?  How many times have you been asked have
you ever gone to school?  How many times have you been asked what
do you do with yourself all day, you can't >possibly< work?

How many times have you been asked who dresses you in the morning,
takes care of you, feeds you, wipes your behind when you go to the
bathroom?  How many times have you been refused access to public
places because the proprietor is afraid of a lawsuit if you hurt
yourself?  How many more examples of being misunderstood would you
like?

Why do I say putting a 'fold on someone for five or ten minutes
would further the problem, not the solution (or, as I said, the
cause, what I meant was the "cause" as in our cause)?  Because the
one difference between someone living with a disability--any
disability--and a person attempting to emulate that disability by
applying a physically handicapping device is that the person
attempting the emulation knows that it's not permanent, that the
handicapping device--in this case, the blindfold--can, and >will<,
be removed and the person using it can go back to their normal
life, whereas there's no removing our blindfolds, not ever--no
removing our bum leg, our bad ear, our uncontrollable
tongue-and-mouth co-ordination, etc. Makes a great deal of
difference, when you know you can take something away that's
inhibiting your actions--kinda like when an unwelcome guest visits
you, you know he's going to leave eventually, but until then you've
got him where you don't want him, in your house.  Well, our
unwelcome guest never leaves,
that's the difference.

If you are offended by my tone, then please excuse, I am not
intending offense, just trying to wake you up a little bit.  Having
a disabling condition is no picnic, and anyone who thinks being
able to put on some sort of handicapping device (like a blindfold,
like picking up crutches and trying to walk with them, like sitting
themselves in a wheelchair and trying to get along, plugging up
one's ears, etc.) to get an idea of what it's like is wasting their
time.  It can be made to look like lots of fun, like it's a big
game, but a game it most certainly is not--it's all too real for
all too many of us, and I think rather poorly of anyone who wishes
to make it other than what it is by seemingly glorifying it by
attempting to see what it's like by imitation.

Steve Matzura

Via: FrontDoor 2.02

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Subject: Unix Desktop Con  computers
From: Steve.Matzura@f203.n2603.z1.fidonet.org (Steve Matzura)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:2603/203 - The Shop Mail Only, Flushing NY


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 > I missed the original message, but wanted to let you and others know
 > I am using Sun machines by hooking up thru the com port of the pc to
 > 2 of the Sun serial tty ports and running Kermit for VT-102
 > emulation.
 >  Switching from one line to another gives me 2 "windows" and lets
 > me kill processes which lock up the other port.

And that's the only way to do it.  I ran a SCO XENIX machine for a
couple years, and even did some research into writing software to
control a speech synthesizer board, but it's virtually impossible.
The way you're doing it is the generally accepted way, and it works
very well.

Steve Matzura

Via: FrontDoor 2.02

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Internet: Steve.Matzura@f203.n2603.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Ada and money printing
From: Noe.Villeda@f6.n377.z1.fidonet.org (Noe Villeda)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:377/6 - T.A.B.B., Tampa Fl


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

Hi Darrell, I agree with you about the braille money, but the only
problem would be that you'd probably have people trying to braille
their own bills or something crazy like that.  It's a neat idea
though. Noe

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------



Subject: Re: Braille translators
From: Bruce.Toews@f802.n348.z1.fidonet.org (Bruce Toews)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:348/802 - Andreas Fault Line, Winnipeg MB


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

When it comes to technical support and software upgrading, the best
braille translator in my opinion is the Duxbury translator. It is
much more flexible than Hot Dots in that the translators are
super-customizable, other languages can be used, and there is much
more control over formatting than with Hot Dots. Hot Dots is,
however, also an excelent program in that it is menu-driven, making
it easier for some.

Bruce

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Internet: Bruce.Toews@f802.n348.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Re: Survey
From: Bruce.Toews@f802.n348.z1.fidonet.org (Bruce Toews)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:348/802 - Andreas Fault Line, Winnipeg MB


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

*** Quoting Steve Matzura to *ALL* ***

SM> I am posting this message in as many places as I can where I
SM> think I might get
SM> some good feedback.  Basically, my question is this:
SM>
SM> If you have a disability that impairs your performance while
SM> pouring liquid
SM> from one vessel to another, then this survey is for you, and I'd
SM> very much
SM> appreciate it if you'd read and respond.
SM>
SM> Here are the questions:
SM>
SM> 1.  Who trained or taught you how to pour liquids--in particular,
SM> hot liquids,
SM> like tea, coffee, etc.--from one vessel (say, a coffeepot or
SM> teakettle) to
SM> another (say, a cup)?
SM>
SM> 2.  What was the methodology used in your instruction (i.e., pour
SM> by weight,
SM> pour by sound, pour by estimation, use your finger, etc.)?
SM>
SM> 3.  Did you stick with that training or instruction afterward, or
SM> did you
SM> simply adhere to the taught techniques to get your instructor off
SM> your back,
SM> then you went off and did what you pleased?
SM>
SM> 4.  What method are you using now? ...

1. My family taught me how to pour liquids.

2. I used one of those things that have the two prongs that stick into the
 glass, and when a circuit is completed with the liquid, it makes a noise.

3. I adhered to the instruction until I lost the device.

4. I rarely drink hot drinks at all, and when I do, they have usually come from
 a dispensing machine, or they have been poured for me (i.e. at a restaurant or
 something). For cold drinks, I use the "stick your finger in the glass" methoc.

Bruce

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                                ******

             End of Issue # 2567 of the Handicap Digest

                                ******