From: lippard@skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu (James J. Lippard)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.censorship,alt.discrimination,alt.activism,sci.research
Subject: Re: THE HOAXER PROJECT REPORT (Racist and Anti-Semitic Hoaxes and more!)
Date: 14 Apr 92 16:02:00 GMT
 <13APR199208295174@skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu> <1992Apr14.074157.20297@sbcs.sunysb.edu>
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Organization: University of Arizona
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In article <1992Apr14.074157.20297@sbcs.sunysb.edu>, mokon@csws5.ic.sunysb.edu (Matthew Okon) writes...
>In article <13APR199208295174@skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu> lippard@skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu (James J. Lippard) writes:
>>The following should not be construed as a defense of any views
>>expressed by Ralph Winston.  It is, however, a criticism of
>>a respondent of Ralph Winston.
> 
>I am sorry for behaving foolishly by writing about Mr Laird Wilcox in that 
>fashion and citing KLANWATCH as a KKK newspaper.  I accept your criticism
>and I am glad someone came forth to do so.  I am saying this because I am
>sick and tired of reading racist articles.  My anger got the best of me 
>in the wee hours of the morning.  I do not apologize, on the other hand,
>for attacking Ralph Winston's character.  

No apology necessary; but thanks for your retraction regarding Wilcox
and Klanwatch.

>In his article, Mr. Wilcox listed numerous hoaxes, some of which I am  
>acquainted.  He did not, on the other hand, list any true anti-semitic 
>and/or racist acts.  Therefore, his work can be considered propaganda because
>it only supports one point of view.

He does discuss genuine anti-semitic and racist acts and groups in
the _Report_.  (I haven't read what Winston posted to see if he posted
the whole thing, so maybe he simply excluded that discussion.)  Wilcox
does argue that the vast majority of incidents are isolated incidents
involving individuals, usually juveniles.

>Also, he cites the ADL (Anti Defamation League) as having erroneous data 
>because of all these hoaxes.  What he fails to mention is that the ADL did
>not include these hoaxes into their statistics.  Therefore, it can be con-
>strued that Mr. Wilcox's work is not very accurate.  Sure, it is good to list
>many cases that will support his point but that doesn't mean too much without
>looking at the whole picture.

Actually, he shows the opposite--that they *have* included hoaxes in
their statistics.  He cites the March 1985 issue of the _ADL Bulletin_
as an example, where a photograph of "Desecration of a Jewish Home in
Kings Point, NY" was a fake.  He also points out that they get their
statistics through member surveys, that they count unsolved incidents,
and that they have counted such things as pro-Palestinian graffiti and
the distribution of pro-Palestinian literature as "anti-semitic" incidents.

>In N.Y.C. alone (one of the largest "melting pots" in the world) there are 
>numerous bias crimes a year.  On the other hand, if one examines other parts
>of the country where there are few minorities, you will see a low rate in 
>these sorts of incidents.  I am sure Mr. Wilcox doesn't see too many hate
>crimes in his neck of the woods for this reason. 

No doubt this is true, but Wilcox has been collecting reports nationwide,
not just in Kansas.

>It is my opinion that Ralph Winston is committing a crime against humanity
>when he writes that the Holocaust is a myth.  OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM PROVED 
>HOW WRONG THIS IDEA IS and yet he still continues to propagate such 
>nonsense all over the world.  His argument is slanderous towards Jews as well
>as those who have empathy for such a tragic loss of people. Sure, you might 
>say that this would be a violation of our First Ammendment but by the same 
>token I could go out and yell fire in a packed movie house and be arrested.
>Of course, I should be arrested for potentially harming countless many lives
>but slandering and propagating hate also harms countless many lives. 

I do not think these cases are analogous; neither do the U.S. courts.

>I do believe that Winston is the same guy that got kicked off of PRODIGY for
>writing anti-semitic articles.  There is not much one can do to throw him off
>this system because USENET is not controlled by any one particular organ-
>ization.  I believe in free speech but then again the owner's of PRODIGY had 
>the right to do what they wished (i.e., the system is not public domain).
>PRODIGY has as much a right to do this as some country clubs have when they 
>restrict Blacks, Jews and other minorities from  using their facilities.

Agreed.

>The preceding was in response to a criticism of my prior posting. 
>My apalogies to:
> 
>>Jim Lippard              Lippard@CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU
>>Dept. of Philosophy      Lippard@ARIZVMS.BITNET
>>University of Arizona
>>Tucson, AZ 85721
> 
>Thank you.
> 
>And no thanks to the "MAIN MORON" (be sure to look over your
>shoulder every so often).
> 
> 
> 
>-- 
>=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=
>=- Matthew Okon (alias Yura Nass) /////// in conjunction with OHME BOYS!! =-
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==

Jim Lippard              Lippard@CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU
Dept. of Philosophy      Lippard@ARIZVMS.BITNET
University of Arizona
Tucson, AZ 85721
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,misc.headlines,talk.politics.mideast