HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Trevor.Kirby@newcastle.ac.uk (Trevor Kirby)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,alt.folklore.urban
Subject: Re: An astonishing Guy
Date: 9 Nov 92 09:47:20 GMT
Organization: Computing Laboratory, U of Newcastle upon Tyne, UK NE1 7RU.


In article <1992Nov6.092300.23437@dcs.warwick.ac.uk>, wisp@dcs.warwick.ac.uk (Wisp) writes:
>>
>
>Absolutely right! Apart form all the misery he caused on the mainland, lets
>not forget his 'Hearts and Minds' tour of Ireland (Drogheda, Wexford etc.),
>which is still quoted today as a major reason for the enmity between
>Ireland and GB...
>
>The Wisp. [of course, just like the holocaust, it's all fake propaganda...]

Not fake but the similar treatment handed out to the "english settlers" by the
irish in the years preceeding it are conveniantly forgotten by people touting
this as a good reason for a bit of emnity. It's a pity that the only thing a lot
of people seem to learn from history is a reason to hate.

 Trev
From: nickh@CS.CMU.EDU (Nick Haines)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Crime rates in Britain compared
Date: 13 Nov 92 15:33:15 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.Bxnv7G.F7u.1
	<0S4SB5SX@cc.swarthmore.edu>
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon University
Originator: nickh@VOILA.VENARI.CS.CMU.EDU

In article <0S4SB5SX@cc.swarthmore.edu>, ment@cs.swarthmore.edu
(Andrew Ment) writes very entertainingly about how safe Manhattan
is:

   Crime in New York is bad, but really it isn't as bad as most people
   paint it, especially tourists who, reasonably, tend to feel more
   threatened then they really are.

[...]

   I lived for a year in Scotland and I have to say that it really was
   remarkable how safe I felt.  One of the most amusing things was
   that everyone in Edinburgh was convinced that the meadows were a
   treacherous place after dark.  I think that it's people who come
   from extra safe places who get shocked by New York.

i.e. New York is a whole lot more dangerous than `extra-safe' places
like Edinburgh (or London, or Belfast). People in those places are
`amusing' because they consider areas which are nearly as dangerous as
(the safe parts of) New York to be `treacherous'. But crime in New
York isn't _that_ bad.... :-)

So how bad is it? Just a lot worse than `treacherous'. Fine, that's
very reassuring :-)

Nick
Xref: sparky soc.culture.british:15807 alt.folklore.urban:28396 misc.legal:19874
From: rancke@diku.dk (Hans Rancke-Madsen)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,alt.folklore.urban,misc.legal
Subject: Re: The amazing disappearing British Constitution
Date: 13 Nov 92 10:41:15 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, U of Copenhagen

twcaps@tennyson.lbl.gov (Terry Chan) writes:
>rancke@diku.dk (Hans Rancke-Madsen) writes:
>  +
>  +On the other hand, Denmark, the oldest, does have a written consitution.
>  +                            ^^^^^^^^^^
>  +     (Well, we have the longest continuing line of kings, anyway).

>The "oldest"?  What?  How about the Japanese?  Supposedly, they can
>trace their dynasty back kibollions of years (essentially to the
>Sun god or whatever).

Unbroken? I seem to remember that there was a few interregnums, but
I'm no expert in japanese history. However, then there's the question
of wether the Emperor is _really_ a monarch if he is completely
powerless.

>Terry "Say, don't you have a queen now?" Chan

So we do. And we had another one a while back, so I should have
written 'longest continuing line of monarchs'.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
------------
"I used to argue the matter at first, but I'm wiser now. Facts
are stubborn things, but not half so stubborn as fallacies."
                - Stella Maynard in "Anne of the Island"
From: mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Just a quick question
Date: 9 Nov 92 09:57:53 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept, QMW, University of London, UK.

From: nickh@CS.CMU.EDU (Nick Haines)
Laurence Godfrey writes:
>   Gosh, you're quite right.  I should have said 'that is a euphemism
>   for fucking' I guess, but then fucking is itself a euphemism too.
>
>It is? In what way is `fuck' euphemistic? I thought it was
>straight-forward, like `fart' or `shit'.

Linguists have suggested that "fuck" comes from a root word
meaning "strike" while "shit" comes from a root word meaning
"split" (don't know about "fart" though). Both were originally
euphemistic.

Matthew Huntbach
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: firth@sei.cmu.edu (Robert Firth)
Subject: Re: Religion & Morality (was Re: Can the Prime Minster be Catholic?)
Organization: Software Engineering Institute
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 14:04:40 GMT

In article <1992Nov11.094033.13734@osf.org> sp@osf.org (Simon Patience) writes:

>France currently allows no interference of religion in either government
>or education. I don't see the fabric of society collapsing around me here.
>Basically you are talking complete crap.

Is this the same France that Edmund Burke wrote about?  The one that
enthroned the 'Goddess of Reason' as her supreme deity?  The one that
spawned the Terror and the Committee of Public Safety?  The same
France that gave us the Directorate, the Consulate, the Empire, and
twenty years of war, at the end of which she was drafting fifteen
year old boys to face the guns?

Nah, must be somewhere else entirely.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: dj@ekcolor.ssd.kodak.com (Dave Jones)
Subject: Re: Viloence in british military schools (Help for anthro. study)
Organization: Vonnegut Tent Rentals, Inc.
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 92 14:30:29 GMT

Dick Jackson (jackson@soldev.tti.com) wrote:
> Tom Oates writes:
> >To the best of my knowledge there are no 'military schools' in the UK.
> 
> But in the US the military school has another function nowadays. I have
> had personal contact (albeit third hand) with parents who send their
> offspring to military schools as a last resort -- the children being
> considered impervious to normal school discipline. The goal is not to
> have them follow a military career, but simply to have their rebellious
> streak beaten out of them.
>
Private schools run along military lines, in imitation of the real
Academies, (with some of the inmates presumably being groomed for said
Academies) are an unusual feature of the US landscape.  To the best of
my knowledge they have no official sanction, nor do they necessarily boast
arsenals of the sort depicted in the movie 'Taps'.  They don't have any
more power over students than regular schools, though the effect of a
conformist social structure shouldn't be underestimated.  I think their
reputation for discipline is partly due to the regime, partly hype, and
partly due to the fact that they can always expel the real hard cases.

> I have never heard of any equivalent to this in England, unless you count
> "reform school" -- whatever that is exactly?
> 
Part of what the US calls "Juvenile Corrections", I think.  There have been
many changes, but there used to be the 'Borstal' system (named either after
some Govt. official, or after the original school) which was the youth arm
of the prison system.  For a glimpse of life there in the 50s and 60s, get
the movie "The Loneliness of the Long Distance Runner".

--
||Halloween Candy: the office snack    |
||from Nov. 1st onwards............... |Puff the Magic Dragon
||-------------------------------------|Lived by the sea
||Dave Jones (dj@ekcolor.ssd.kodak.com)|Who knows what's in the autumn mists
||Eastman Kodak Co. Rochester, NY      |In the mind of Yadallee?
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: sp@osf.org (Simon Patience)
Subject: Re: How to insult a Brit (reprise)
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 11:37:57 GMT

In article <1da9bgINNl0c@fido.asd.sgi.com>, livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:
> 
> In article <1992Nov4.070533.6781@osf.org>, sp@osf.org writes:
> > In article <1d6om5INNksr@fido.asd.sgi.com>, livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:
> > > it.  As for the British, try a bit harder to find a name
> > > that sounds British.   But there already is one, isn't
> > > there.  "British" sounds quite incredibly British to me.
> > 
> > "I'm a British" doesn't quite work, does it. I personally think that
> > Briton is rather British too.
> 
> 	"My own objection to the word "Brit" is that it seems to be
> 	an American invention.   There's really nothing wrong with
> 	"Briton" and "The British".
> 
> 		<1d4fpuINNdg0@fido.asd.sgi.com>
> 
> Want to try again, Mr Patience?

Willingly, if I had the faintest idea of what you mean. Try again at what
and why?

Simon.

-- 
  Simon Patience
  Open Software Foundation			Phone: +33-76-63-48-72
  Research Institute				FAX:   +33-76-51-05-32
  2 Avenue De Vignate				Email: sp@gr.osf.org
  38610 Gieres, France				       uunet!gr.osf.org!sp
From: chem91@Elroy.UH.EDU ("Bill Harrison (713)-743-2789")
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Why Berwick-upon-Tweed?
Date: 10 Nov 92 15:38:20 GMT
Article-I.D.: menudo.1992Nov10.153820.22871
Reply-To: chem91@Elroy.UH.EDU
Organization: University of Houston

>> My question is, what is so special about Berwick-upon-Tweed?
>> Why is it mentioned separately?
>
>I believe that until part-way through Victoria's reign, it
>was never quite clear whether Berwick was in England or the
>other place.
>

Well, Berwick Rangers do play in the Scottish Football (soccer) League, 
so it seems they're still a little confused up there (or made an excellent 
choice)...  

Bill
+ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\               /~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Bill Harrison,            \             /       "Be as radical as... |
| University of Houston, TX  >-----------<         reality itself"     |
| CHEM91@JETSON.BITNET      /             \                V. I. Lenin |
+ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~/               \~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
Xref: sparky soc.culture.british:15627 alt.folklore.urban:28074
From: wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,alt.folklore.urban
Subject: Re: Anglican vs C of E
Date: 10 Nov 92 10:58:28 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620

In article <lfqrt4INNa64@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>, linden@positive.Eng.Sun.COM (Trelford Pinkerton) writes:
> I would like to hear what the difference is between
> the Anglican church, and the Church of England.  This is in
> the context of the Monarch being the Supreme Head of Britain's 
> official state religion.
> 
Simple. The Anglican Church is world-wide, on a similar basis to the Roman
Catholic Church, and includes the American Espicopalian Church an various
other national churches. The Archbishop of Canterbury is its head, though all
archbishops have the same powers and responsibilities. The Church of England is
the two provinces of Canterbury and York, covering the whole of England. The
Monarch is the temporal head (whatever that means) and the Archbishop of
Canterbury is the spiritual head. The Church is established, which means in
effect that the Prime Minister appoints bishops and parliament approves all
church legislation.
-- 

Stephen Wilcox             |   For Sale: Posts in British Government. Suit
wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk    |   outgoing American. Highest bids accepted.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.british:15174 alt.folklore.urban:27445
From: plummer@cs.swarthmore.edu (David Barker-Plummer)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,alt.folklore.urban
Subject: Re: An astonishing Guy
Date: 5 Nov 92 17:51:24 GMT
	<PLUMMER.92Nov4225351@nutmeg.cs.swarthmore.edu>
	<1992Nov5.105130.10997@osf.org>
Organization: Swarthmore College, Swarthmore, PA

>>>>> On Thu, 5 Nov 1992 10:51:30 GMT, david@postman.gr.osf.org (David George) said:

> In article <PLUMMER.92Nov4225351@nutmeg.cs.swarthmore.edu>, |> |>
> I remember learning in school that "Guy" Fawkes was actually an |>
> Italian mercenary by the name of Guido.  True or false.  |> |> --

DG> P.S. our teachers reckoned he was French, I guess the postwar anti Italien
DG> feeling had died out and we were knocking the French with our revisionist
DG> school history.

I think that you must think that I am older than I am.

-- Dave
From: livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Britain doesn't have a Constitution (Re: An astonishing Guy)
Date: 10 Nov 1992 22:55:32 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.  Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: solntze.wpd.sgi.com


In article <1992Nov10.100849.12506@dcs.qmw.ac.uk>, mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk writes:
> From: firth@sei.cmu.edu (Robert Firth)
> >What sane person would craft such an absurdity?  Far better to ensure
> >that unconstitutional laws do not get enacted at all; or, if enacted,
> >do not get enforced.  The English constuitution attempts the former;
> >the Roman attempted the latter.  Both, of course, sometimes fail, but
> >probably no more often than the US system; and when they work they do
> >not work by first inflicting injury, and then trying to undo it.
> 
> I would be interested in hearing how you suppose the "English"
> (you mean, of course, "British") constitution attempts the
> former, given that it lacks an effective second chamber, an
> effective head of state distinct from the legislature, and any
> concept of federalism or any other form of division of powers
> or safeguard against elected dictatorship, while allowing the
> dictator to be put in place on under 40% of the popular vote.

I don't think that *any* mere system does much good to anyone.
Look at the way that this far-famed American Bill of Rights
was simply not enforced in many important repects for the first
hundred and fifty years of its existence.

My claim would be that if the US finally has a decent record
in rights over the past, say, thirty years, that's a positive
comment on changing attitudes among Americans themselves.   It
is not evidence that their "system" works better.   They had
exactly the same Constitutional "system" when their record in
rights was horrendously poor.

I'd also say that one virtue of the British system is that when
we need dictatorship, for example that all-party goverment of
the Second World War, we just go ahead and do it, up front,
without pretence.   I hope that we all also recognize the dangers
of doing so, and don't hide behind the figleaf of some supposed
system.

jon.
From: dvp@getafix (Dave Parry)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: An astonishing Guy
Date: 7 Nov 92 13:51:04 GMT
Organization: ICL, Bracknell, Berks, UK
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

dbrooks@osf.org (David Brooks) writes:
> In article <5829@balrog.ctron.com>, smith@ctron.com (Larry Smith) writes:
> |> In the US, rights are _intrinsic_, in England they are _granted_.
> 
> This is a distinction without a difference.
> 
Well I'd rather my 'rights' were intrinsic than granted, on a matter of
principle. Who 'grants' me/us these rights? The government? No matter
how you paint it, they are our paid servants and I don't much like the
idea that they can 'grant' me basic human rights! The monarchy? I/we pay
their wages/upkeep etc. etc. and, again, I don't feel happy that my 'rights'
are granted by the 'worlds favourite mum' and her family.

On a point of principle, I would be happier knowing that my 'rights' were
at least, in theory, untouchable by governments/monarchies. Can you
spell 'patronize'?


--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
------ Dave Parry  ICL, Bracknell, Berks, UK | "Send more paramedics.."--
------ email = dvp@oasis.icl.co.uk           | 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,alt.folklore.urban
From: david@postman.gr.osf.org (David George)
Subject: Re: An astonishing Guy
Organization: OSF RI Grenoble
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 10:51:30 GMT

In article <PLUMMER.92Nov4225351@nutmeg.cs.swarthmore.edu>, 
|> 
|> I remember learning in school that "Guy" Fawkes was actually an
|> Italian mercenary by the name of Guido.  True or false.
|> 
|> -- Dave

Reminds me that most of what I learnt in school (from teachers, anyway :-)
was a load of old bollocks too.  Guy Fawkes was a Yorkshireman - this is
well documented - I'll refer you to an encyclopedia for starters.

What's the going rate for "penny for the guy" these days ?

David.


P.S. our teachers reckoned he was French, I guess the postwar anti Italien
feeling had died out and we were knocking the French with our revisionist
school history.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: david@postman.gr.osf.org (David George)
Subject: Re: Accent, Dialect and Rabbie Burns
Organization: OSF RI Grenoble
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 10:25:26 GMT

In article <1992Nov10.085302.25302@rdg.dec.com>, cockburn@edieng.enet.dec.com (Craig Cockburn) writes:
|> Many Scots (one 't') are abandoning Burns because the Scottish Education
|> Department is no doubt influenced from England. I saw the "English" 
|> examination papers this year, and whilst it was evident that the pupils
|> were studying Shakespeare, there was no mention of Burns at all. Burns
|> is probably the world's best known poet and he's not being studied in his
|> home land!

Probably... you're beginning to sound like a lager commercial.  A quick poll
of the office reveals the knowledge of Burns to be about zero amongst none
English speakers.

Still take heart Craig, I'm sure that people are reading Burns outside of the
'O' level syllabus in Scotland and elsewhere and it's a well known factoid that
forced study of poets or authors is enough to put you off their works for life.
Maybe this is the trump card of the S.E.D ?

David.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: david@postman.gr.osf.org (David George)
Subject: Re: Religion & Morality (was Re: Can the Prime Minster be Catholic?)
Organization: OSF RI Grenoble
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 10:07:32 GMT

|> In article <1992Nov10.145541.17601@sei.cmu.edu>, firth@sei.cmu.edu (Robert Firth) writes:
|> > Yes, as every sane and stable society has known for eight thousand
|> > years,

Hold on there, pilgrim I thought the world was created in 4004BC.  Still
who can expect a stable society if they don't have faith in a flat earth ?

|> > Others, by contrast, foolishly deny religion any place, and then find not
|> > only endless public strife about moral issues unresolvable within a 
|> > crippled polity,

Wot, you mean like Ireland and the strife over whether 14 year old rape victims
should be allowed a legal abortion ?

Well don't worry, salvation is at hand, send the crippled body politic to Lourds
where they can buy holy water at a fiver a bottle.

David.

p.s. anyone wanna buy a few relics ?  I have boxed sets of St.Peter's fingers,
     15 Guineas for 10.
From: cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Chris Cooke)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Why Berwick-upon-Tweed?
Date: 11 Nov 92 12:53:45 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Edinburgh, Scotland

In article <1992Nov10.120658.5732@cas.org> jac54@cas.org writes:

	   I'm still not sure which country it's in.  I think that it is
	   in England but that Berwick Rangers play in the Scottish League
	   2nd division.

Berwick-upon-Tweed is in England (and 4/5ths of its people are happy for it
to stay there, according to an opinion poll a year or so ago).  Berwickshire
used to be in Scotland, just over the border, until they destroyed all the
counties in 1974 (boo!).  Berwick Rangers plays in the Scottish football
league because there's less travelling involved, I think.
--
	-- Chris. 	cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk   (on Janet, cc@uk.ac.ed.dcs)
From: wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: What time is "half seven"?
Date: 6 Nov 92 20:09:46 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620

In article <1992Nov3.171105.28124@ncar.ucar.edu>, lefevre@brasseur.acd.ucar.edu (Franck Lefevre) writes:
>>Yes it is - "halb drei" is actually 2:30 ('half two').
>                    ~~~~                          ~~~|
>                      |--> half two or half three ? <-
> 
>                       This story is getting more and more confusing.
> 
To clear up the confusion (I hope) once and for all. 

Let n be a whole number between 1 and 12 inclusive.

Then in Britain `Half n' means `Half past n'---that is n:30

In Germany `Halb n' (in German) means `Halb vor n'---that is (n-1):30, or 12:30
if n = 1.

-- 

Stephen Wilcox             |   For Sale: Posts in British Government. Suit
wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk    |   outgoing American. Highest bids accepted.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: agc@bmdhh286.bnr.ca (Alan Carter)
Subject: Re: The dog in the House of Commons
Organization: BNR-Europe-Limited, Maidenhead, England
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1992 12:35:22 GMT

In article <Bx8K6E.Lws@sci.kun.nl>, caspar@sci.kun.nl (Caspar Terheggen) writes:
|> Watching the debates about the Maastricht treaty, I saw a dog
|> lying on the floor on "Labour's side" of the House of Commons
|> (sp?).  This was quite a surprise, because I don't think they
|> would allow a dog in the "tweede kamer" of the Dutch Parliament.
|> I had noticed it before, but it's not always there.  Whose dog
|> is it?

David Blunkett's. He is blind, so he takes his guide dog with him.

   Alan

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
To arrive at the simplest truth, as Newton knew and practised, requires years
of contemplation. Not activity. Not reasoning. Not calculating. Not busy 
behaviour of any kind. Not reading. Not talking. Not making an effort. Simply 
bearing in mind what it is one needs to know.

   George Spencer-Brown, Laws of Form
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Xref: sparky soc.culture.british:15797 soc.culture.celtic:7308
From: smaill@aisb.ed.ac.uk (Alan Smaill)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Accent and Dialect, the politics there
Date: 13 Nov 92 12:34:44 GMT
Organization: DAI, University of Edinburgh

In article <1992Nov12.210917.19076@news.clarkson.edu> walker@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Graham Walker, 227 West Old Main,268-3847,) writes:

   a) Sunset Song has hardly any lallans in it Gibbon knew that he was
   writing for an english audiance and put in bits that would be reasonable
   understandable.

You will recall from Gibbon's introduction that he makes the comparison 
between Scots and Dutch, as they relate to English and German respectively.
He imagines that Holland had not retained its independence - then
there would not have been any Dutch literature, and the Dutch author
would have been obliged to restict himself to the inclusion of typical
words and phrases, something of the rhythm and shape of his spoken
language and hope that the poetry would come through.

So it does in Sunset Song.

--
Alan Smaill,                       JANET: A.Smaill@uk.ac.ed             
Department of Artificial           ARPA:  A.Smaill%uk.ac.ed@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk
       Intelligence,               UUCP:  ...!uknet!ed.ac.uk!A.Smaill
Edinburgh University. 
Xref: sparky soc.culture.british:15837 alt.folklore.urban:28468 misc.legal:19905