HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: silverstein@vxdesy.desy.de
Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterr
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Organization: (DESY, Hamburg, Germany)
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 22:11:09 GMT

In article <7696@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU>, mitch@seashell.seas.ucla.edu (Robert R. Mitchell (SEAS admin)) writes:
> Idle speculation from someone whose ignorance 
> of physics is massive (pun intended):
> 
> Does the influence of gravity act instantaneously?  Suppose you had
> a mass detector of some sort, and you were detecting mass X at
> a distance of say, 1 LY.  If that mass were moved suddenly, wouldn't
> your mass detector note the movement instantly?  What glaring blunder
> have I committed?

Gravity wave detectors have been built to detect such events as supernovae
over long distances, but as far as I am aware, no positive measurements have
been made yet (none of them were turned on when SN1987A was observed).
However, it is believed that the gravitational force is transmitted at light
speed, and not instantaneously.

> 
> Bonus Round related question:
> 
> Do two masses always interact gravitationally, regardless of the
> distance between them?  I mean "at all", not "negligible".  
> 

Yes, the gravitational force, like the electromagnetic force, is said to have
an "infinite" range, which means that its effect is exactly zero only at an
infinite separation.

> I know, there are more appropriate forums for this stuff, but hey,
> I'm not going to parade my ignorance in front of the _smart_guys_.
> 
> --
> DISCLAIMER:                                              | Bob Mitchell
> "Don't blame _me_, _I_ didn't do it!" --Krusty the Clown | mitch@ea.ucla.edu
> "Ididn'tdoitnobodysawmeyoucan'tproveanything!" --Bartman | DOD#[classified]
> "Computers are ruining this country." --Al Bundy         | 1987 VT700c

Sam Silverstein
UW Madison department of Physics
_NOT_ to be confused with UW Eau Claire, home of physicist ROBERT MCELWAINE!
(geez...I kinda miss him in a way...;-)
Xref: sparky alt.alien.visitors:4666 sci.skeptic:13050
From: thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Zeta Reticuli Incident
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 04:25:15 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

Well, it's clear I'm not going to find my "UFO Files" anytime soon; 100+
boxes so far and nada.

However, I did find the following (obviously mis-filed :-)

                    "The Zeta Reticuli Incident"
                       by Terence Dickinson

                     With related commentary by:

                         Jeffrey L. Kretsch
                             Carl Sagan
                            Steven Soter
                          Robert Scheaffer
                           Marjorie Fish
                         David Saunders, and
                            Michael Peck

which is a 32-page, nicely printed (in color) reprint from ASTRONOMY Magazine.

From the frontispiece:

	The Zeta Reticuli Incident by Terrence Dickinson, et al.

	Copyright (C) 1976 by AstroMedia Corp., publisher of ASTRONOMY
	magazine, 757 N. Broadway, Suite 204, Milwaukee WI 53202, all rights
	reserved.  No part of this publication may be reproduced by any
	mechanical, photographic or electronic process, or otherwise copied
	for public or private use without written permission from the
	publisher.

	Price: $4.00 each.

``It all started this way:

	The date is Sept. 19, 1961.  A middle aged New Hampshire couple,
	Betty and Barney Hill, are driving home from ...
''

There are some excellent star charts and fact tables in the publication,
including characteristics of main sequence stars, data on the 46 nearest
starts to the sun, the "Fish-Hill Pattern Stars", etc.

Apparently this all appeared in the December 1974 issue of ASTRONOMY as
its lead article.

On the last page (of the reprint) is found some interesting commentary
about the Zeta Reticuli system by Jeffrey L. Kretsch:

``	Zeta Reticuli is a unique system in the solar neighborhood -- a
	wide physically associated pair of stars almost exactly like the
	sun.  After searching through a list of stars selected from the
	Gliese catalog on the basis of life criteria, only one other pair
	within a separation of even 0.3 light years could be found.  (This
	pair -- Gliese 201 and Gliese 202, a K5e and F8Ve pair separated by
	0.15 light years -- is currently being investigated.)  Zeta Reticuli
	is indeed a rare case.

	[...]
''

Many arguments, rebuttals, counter-arguments/-rebuttals are in the reprint.

Perhaps someone should determine whether copies are still available.


Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com ]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
From: cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer)
Subject: Re: UFO books
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 15:22:49 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

In article <62922@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes:
>Dear Elaine: You ask about UFO book so here I go.
>I'll try to give you my opinion on the subject.
      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
What gives John, you don't know your own opinion?  I owuld think that
the negative of the statement would cause more difficulty for most
people.

>The first book is Stranger At The 
>Pentagon by Frank Stranges.  Fate Magazine just got through writing
>an article tearing this book apart. I figure if Fate has that much to 
>say about it then it's got to be good. I read it many years ago and it
>talks about a person from Venus called Valient Thor who contacted Ike I.
               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Pretty tough dude to be able to live on a planet where the surface
temperature is hot enougth to melt lead, tin and other soft metals.
Not to mention the fact that the atmosphere is corrisive.

>(our president) and tried to give us some help. We didn't take his 
>help but he did give us 2 or more UFOs to show good faith. You can get
>the book at Inner Light Publications, P.O. Box 753, New Prunswick,
>NJ 08903 USA.

Ithlial the Archer

My opinions, mine, mine, mine!

I bet the main reason the police keep people away from a plane crash 
is they don't want anybody walking in and lying down in the crash 
stuff, then, when some comes up, act like they just woke up and go, 
"What, was THAT?!"
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Get Off John's Back Please!
From: Robert_Sutton@kcbbs.gen.nz (Robert Sutton)
Date: 31 Jul 92 09:46:49 GMT
Organization: Kappa Crucis Unix BBS, Auckland, New Zealand

timpson.acetek.enet.dec.com 29/jul 1992 18///////;52/;19 types--
>It's not a matter of freedom of......
                                      (censored)
Maybe it'as a freedom of type (0s)

      & what about Freedom of it for Aliens?

************************************
ARE ETOI SPACESHIPS SHY
OR ARE THEY JUST WAITING
TO SEAL THE ROYALTY DEAL?
**************************************************************************8 
       

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
From: edc432ysys@vx24.cc.monash.edu.au
Subject: ALIEN GREETZ
Organization: Computer Centre, Monash University, Australia
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 02:40:19 GMT

Saalome gam naan ben uurda gan neeber asaal hesporoona

HI ya!

	If you know what this means please contact me !
From: cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Date: 22 Jul 92 20:09:45 GMT
Article-I.D.: lynx.+6fmdv
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

In article <62582@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes:
>Dear Everybody: At the present time I'm  attempting to copy some
>more of the Sharri information from audio tape to post it on the 
>net.
>John Winston.

John,

At the present time I have just taken my shoes off after a very satisfying
trip to the restroom.  But I bet most of the rest of this group wouldn't
give a satisfying trip to the restroom to hear me report this every time
it happens.

Cary

 
cary@ursaminor.unm.edu

My opinions, mine, mine, mine!

To me, boxing is like ballet, except there's no music, no choreography,
and the dancers hit eachother.
Xref: sparky alt.alien.visitors:4716 sci.skeptic:13116
From: thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Erich Von Daniken
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 06:21:02 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

In article <1992Jul23.091433.14378@newshub.sdsu.edu>
melissa@voyager4.sdsu.edu (Melissa ) [actually Mike] writes:

| 	I was just wondering if anyone out there took seriously
| the theories and claims of famed author and traveler Erich Von
| Daniken. While some of his statements are, I know, a little too
| far-fetched and absurd to even be considered, there are a few
| of his ideas which I've found to be quite convincing.
| [...]
| Responses?

Whether one subscribes to his theories or not, I *am* grateful to him
for presenting (in his books) some interesting mysteries and photos
of faraway places that I probably never would have an opportunity to
visit.

Some of his critics need to "chill out" and sit back and enjoy some
of the interesting artifacts presented (whether man-made or not); it's
simply not worth raising one's blood pressure in anger!  :-)

One of the most incredible things (to me) that I saw in person was during
the early 1950s in the Smithsonian (in Washington DC); I believe it was in
the Natural History Exhibit, and was labelled as tracks of unknown dinosaurs
and/or reptiles.

Some actual (and identifiable) dinosaur footprints were present in the rock,
along with what appeared to me (and these were the ones labelled as "unknown")
to be the tracks of a military jeep.  Two parallel tracks with about a 5 foot
separation (for some 15 feet, in the slab fragment) which resembled today's
high-tech all-weather tire-treads.  Tracks which were made millions of years
ago. Incredible; I'll never forget that sight; and when I uttered that thought
out loud (I was only about 8 years old then), everyone turned around and
looked at me strangely, yet no-one made any comments or smiled.  [ See below ]

Kinda like that "spark plug" found embedded in a crystalligerous rock in
N. California as shown in a photo in a book by one of V.Daniken's "imitators."

Mysteries.  Fascinating stuff.

Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com ]

---------- enclosure

My recollection of those "unknown" tracks is that they appeared as depicted
below.  The tracks remained parallel even though they were arced and they both
curved to the left (which I cannot reproduce with ASCII graphics):

              |\|        |/|
              |\|        |/|
              |\|        |/|
              |\|        |/|
              |\|        |/|
              |\|        |/|
              |\|        |/|
              |\|        |/|
              |\|        |/|
              |\|        |/|
              |\|        |/|
              |\|        |/|

---------- end enclosure
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer)
Subject: Re: Zeta Reticuli Incident
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 06:06:32 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <62578@cup.portal.com> thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes:
>
>However, I did find the following (obviously mis-filed :-)
>
>                    "The Zeta Reticuli Incident"
>                       by Terence Dickinson
>
>                     With related commentary by:
>
>                         Jeffrey L. Kretsch
>                             Carl Sagan
>                            Steven Soter
>                          Robert Scheaffer
>                           Marjorie Fish
>                         David Saunders, and
>                            Michael Peck
>
>which is a 32-page, nicely printed (in color) reprint from ASTRONOMY Magazine.
>
>From the frontispiece:
>
>	The Zeta Reticuli Incident by Terrence Dickinson, et al.
>
>	Copyright (C) 1976 by AstroMedia Corp., publisher of ASTRONOMY
>	magazine, 757 N. Broadway, Suite 204, Milwaukee WI 53202, all rights
>
>Many arguments, rebuttals, counter-arguments/-rebuttals are in the reprint.
>
>Perhaps someone should determine whether copies are still available.

The last time I saw Stanton Friedman's travelling road show, he was
still peddling copies of this booklet. Probably copies are available
from him.

(And please note that my name is spelled wrong in it!!)


-- 
  
        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com
  
 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!

       "Beware when the great God lets loose a thinker on this planet.
        Then all things are at risk. It is as when a conflagration has
        broken out in a great city, and no man knows what is safe, or
        where it will end."
                               - Emerson: Essay, "Circles"
From: Raymond_Shaw@mindlink.bc.ca (Raymond Shaw)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Orgone Energy
Date: 31 Jul 92 07:47:24 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

> Mark-Tarbell@suite.com writes:
> 
> Msg-ID: <345@suite.uunet.uu.net>
> Posted: 30 Jul 92 01:16:12 GMT
> 
> My Digital Webster dictionary defines "orgone energy" as:
> 
> or gone \'o (e)r-,go n\ n
> [prob. fr. orgasm + -one (as in hormone)]
> (1942)
> :a vital energy held to pervade nature and to be made available for use by
>  the human body by sitting in a specially designed box
> 
> Okay, I give.  What's the story here?
> (...and where can I get one of them BOXES!!!)
> 


Hello Mark,

        If you're really interested in this subject, I suggest you read some of
Wilhelm Reich's books.  Reich was responsible for the "theory" of orgone energy
and the development of the "orgone accumulator" -- the "box" to which you
refer.
        An interesting note to this subject is the fact that Reich was a
contemporary of Freud, but branched out into his own line of investigation
which led to his discovery of orgone energy.  He developed a box which had the
ability to "collect and trap" orgone energy.  He found that when people were
exposed to the energy, they experienced increased vitality.  He subsquently
began using it in his practice (he was a psychiatrist).  He eventually ended up
in the USA where he started to distribute various sizes of orgone accumulators
until the FDA decided they contravened American law and Reich was then
imprisoned where he died shortly thereafter.  All the orgone accumlators in the
USA were "rounded up" and destroyed, even though many people had experienced
extraordinary cures to various diseases, including cancer.  In his will, Reich
left instructions that his writings be held back from the general public for 50
years.  Reich died in 1957.
        Among his books in print, there is one which is a compilation of his
various works (I found this one in my local library, sorry I can't remember the
title) in which details are given on how to build your own orgone accumlator.
        Hope this helps.

                        Raymond Shaw.
From: cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: zeta reticuli?
Date: 24 Jul 92 15:03:33 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

In article <1992Jul23.141246.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> tffreeba@indyvax.iupui.edu writes:
>In article <nxgmw=f@lynx.unm.edu>, cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer) writes:
>> Another thing to think about is if the star had been a supernovae 
>> candidate it would have been a red giant.  Which means that (a) it
>> would have been around apparent mag -6 or so and (b) it would have 
>> engulfed or nearly engulfed any planets with orbtial radii similar 
>> to the earth's (ie the range of orbital radii within which it is 
>> thought necessary for a planet to have to be habital.)
>> 
>> Ithlial
>
>Just to be the >:-)> advocate: would not the "comfort zone" for planetary
>radii be moved outward for a star massive enough to become a red giant?
>Not that the fact that the star turned into a red giant would not destroy
>the environment of any habitable planet no matter what its orbital radii
>was (or that such a star would not stick around long enough to evovle 
>higher life.)

You're entirely correct in saying that the comfort zone (CZ) will move
out.  Unfortunately you guess that the red giant phase is too short
is also true.  Usually the phase lasts a few 100 million years, in addition
the luminosity is fluctating which will cause the CZ to move (although
not as much as the intially change to red giant caused it too move.
Note that lower forms of life like algaes and the like took a billion
years to evolve.
>
>Thomas Freebairn  * I wish I had an employer
>		  * whose opinions mine were not. 

Ithlial


My opinions, mine, mine, mine!

I bet the main reason the police keep people away from a plane crash 
is they don't want anybody walking in and lying down in the crash 
stuff, then, when some comes up, act like they just woke up and go, 
"What, was THAT?!"
  
  
 
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
From: ken@uxc.cso.uiuc.edu (Ken Primer)
Subject: Elvis???
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 02:54:22 GMT


    So what's this deal about Elvis on Mars? Is he an alien or has he been abducted?

-- 
  RUMORS OF MY DEMISE ARE IN FACT...
ARE NOT EXAGGERATED! I AM IN FACT DEAD.        ken@uxc.cso.uiuc.edu

                        <<FNORD>> 
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
From: swoodwar@zeus.calpoly.edu (Null Cypher)
Subject: Re: Is Bigfoot a Visitor?
Organization: Void-Tech Illumination Research, Inc.
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 15:47:53 GMT

sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) had the unmitigated audacity to say:
>In article <1992Jul23.233900.28968@odin.corp.sgi.com> rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) writes:
>>
>> [story deleted]
>
>A classic description of a hypnogogic (or is is hypnopompic?) vision,
>a hallucination that occurs at the boundary between sleep and wakefulness.
>Sometimes the visions of the dream state and the background of the
>wakeful state become superimposed, for just a few seconds. Relax,
>you're perfectly normal - plenty of people have had experiences like this.
>
Of course - any data that does not conform to one's belief system is
necessarily a hallucination (if not an outright lie).
>
>-- 
>  
>        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com

I bet.

-- 
------------------  fjbbqjne ng qrzrgre qbg pnycbyl qbg rqh  ------------------
   Gur bayl checbfr bs guvf fvtangher vf gb trg crbcyr gb ebg-guvegrra vg...
                 Qvq V rire fnl vg jnf tbvat gb or jbegujuvyr?
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
From: tffreeba@indyvax.iupui.edu
Subject: Re: zeta reticuli?
Organization: Indiana University
Date: 23 Jul 92 14:12:46 -0500

In article <nxgmw=f@lynx.unm.edu>, cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer) writes:
> In article <BrtoGA.Eov@watdragon.waterloo.edu> jdnicoll@watyew.uwaterloo.ca (James Davis Nicoll) writes:
>>
>>	A supernova within 40 lightyears would be very very obvious
>>(Apparent magnitude of ~ -21ish, I think) and could also be very very
>>bad, wrt our current ecosystem. None of the ZR stars are SN candidates,
>>though.
>>
>>							James Nicoll
> 
> Another thing to think about is if the star had been a supernovae 
> candidate it would have been a red giant.  Which means that (a) it
> would have been around apparent mag -6 or so and (b) it would have 
> engulfed or nearly engulfed any planets with orbtial radii similar 
> to the earth's (ie the range of orbital radii within which it is 
> thought necessary for a planet to have to be habital.)
> 
> Ithlial

Just to be the >:-)> advocate: would not the "comfort zone" for planetary
radii be moved outward for a star massive enough to become a red giant?
Not that the fact that the star turned into a red giant would not destroy
the environment of any habitable planet no matter what its orbital radii
was (or that such a star would not stick around long enough to evovle 
higher life.)

Thomas Freebairn  * I wish I had an employer
		  * whose opinions mine were not. 
Xref: sparky alt.alien.visitors:4853 sci.skeptic:13279
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: astral travel
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 14:05:07 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1992Jul24.040144.20572@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> <62711@cup.portal.com>

Hi there BSKAGL: I just got back from the ruins of the 30,000 year old 
city in Southern Calif. Now back to the discussion of Astral Projection. 
The person called T. Lobsang Rampa (the T. stands for tuesday because they
always put down the day a person is born on to identify them astrologically
so they can know more about a person, and I find that extremely funny) did
talk in his book The Rampa Story starting on page 22 about astral projection
and I will now paraphrase some of that information.---His quide taught 
astral travel so well that he could do it better than walking.  Almost
anyone of the religions of the world believes in the soul or "other body".
Actually there are several bodies or sheaths but the exact number does
not concern us here. We know that it is possible-----John Winston.--
From: steve@fulcrum.oz.au (Steve Taylor)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Kill file
Date: 29 Jul 92 08:02:59 GMT
Organization: The Fulcrum Consulting Group

In <62899@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes:

>Dear Kevin: 
>I believe that if you use the commands subscribe and unsubscribe it 
>will give you what you want.

Then again, you could reply to personal mail by using the 'r' key instead of
the 'f' key.

>John Winston.


							Steve
Xref: sparky alt.alien.visitors:4643 sci.skeptic:13001
From: revpk@cellar.org (Brian 'Rev P-K' Siano)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Human Parthenogenesis? (Was: Questions from an interested p
Date: 20 Jul 92 06:21:51 GMT
Organization: The Cellar BBS and public access system

John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes:

> Dear Brain: You are right the Big C usually refers to cancer but in
> this case I was referring to a church.  T.(tuesday) Lobsang Ranpa is 
> a person who I have corresponded with and received letters from before
> in the past. He is one tough dude and the space people do recommend his 
> books.  He didn't write Finding the Third Eye but your close. He did
> write The Third Eye, a book that I love.  Lobsang had an Englishman's 
> body that was never in Tibet.  He had been living as a Tibetian monk
> for many years then he made a switch with an Englishman who was ready to
> pass on anyway. 
> John Winston.

        WAS, mind you. Lobsang Rampa died not too long ago.

        And if you actually believe his claims, well, good luck to you. Just 
don't expect me to.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian "Rev. P-K" Siano                                  revpk@cellar.org
"Best Reason Not to Vote for Perot-- If he wins, it might encourage Bill 
Gates to run." 
Xref: sparky alt.alien.visitors:4702 sci.space:10673 alt.paranormal:1914 sci.skeptic:13097
From: opus@pioneer.unm.edu (Colby Kraybill)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,alt.paranormal,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: UFO-pic from Phobos2-probe posted !
Keywords: phobos
Date: 22 Jul 92 23:40:14 GMT
Organization: Space and Planetary Image Facility

In article <Z464FQG@zelator.in-berlin.de> leo@zelator.in-berlin.de (Stefan Hartmann) writes:
>
>The UFO is approximately 15 and 1/2 miles long !
>

I am also curious as to how the size of the object was determined.

After some more poking around, 

Phobos has the shape of an ellipsoid, whose major axis are 27.9 km, and
19km.  That is 16 miles by 11 miles.  If the measurements of the object are
correct, this could *easily* be Phobos.

Deimos is only only 15 km along it's major axes.


-- 
Colby Kraybill
Space and Planetary Image Facility
University of New Mexico