HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bright@nazgul.UUCP (Walter Bright)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: Re: FW: news release: abolish IRS
Date: 9 Apr 92 02:56:57 GMT
Article-I.D.: nazgul.658
Reply-To: bright@nazgul.UUCP (Walter Bright)
Organization: Zortech, Seattle

In article <3612@isc-br.ISC-BR.COM> jimc@isc-br.ISC-BR.COM (Jim Cathey) writes:
/In article <653@nazgul.UUCP> bright@nazgul.UUCP (Walter Bright) writes:
/>The collisions I worry
/>about are freeway ones, or head ons (two cars hitting head on at 25 mph
/>gives a 50 mph collision).
/Of course, if one vehicle has
/more momentum than the other then it's to his advantage to hit the
/lesser vehicle head-on (as opposed to hitting a bridge).

True enough. I once narrowly missed a head-on with a semi. The semi greatly
outweighed my small car, such that I feel it would have been like hitting a
wall at the sum of our speeds. After that, I now leave much more distance
when passing on two lane roads...

/If my Camaro ('84) had an air bag, though, I would probably be more
/comfortable.  It has a decent lap/shoulder belt that you don't have to
/be a contortionist to grab hold of, and _not_ one of those damned
/motor-mouse belts.  (I will _never_ buy one of these, they are
/extremely irritating, and they _still_ make you put the lap belt
/on manually!  The worst of both worlds.)

In their zeal for protecting stupid people from themselves, the government
has seriously reduced the efficacy of seatbelts. The tighter the belt is,
the more effective it is. The seatbelts steadilly get more complex (i.e.
more failure modes), and they won't sit snug. Also, I have tried more than
once to get the belts in my cars replaced with old-style fixed length ones,
but no one will touch it (due to law and liability problems).

My old '72 Dodge has some wonderful belts in it. They cinch up good and
tight, and hold you properly in the seat. Ah well, motor city died in
1973 as far as I'm concerned.
From: ts@cup.portal.com (Tim W Smith)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: Re: Tell me about Seattle
Date: Wed,  8 Apr 92 05:32:56 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

> offending critter.  Second, if want a house with sunny, open Californian 
> landscape - buy one thats already that way.  Please don't be one of these
> people that buy a beautiful naturally forested lot and then whip out the 
> ole chain saw and cut down everything in sight.

People do that?  Gack!  When it's time to buy a house, I'd like to find
one of those beautiful naturally forested lots you mention, and then build
the house under the ground, with minimal disturbance to the lot.

							Tim Smith
From: vanover@bcsaic.UUCP (Jann VanOver)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: Re: Our gripe with Californians (was Re: Tell me about Seattle)
Date: 10 Apr 92 16:22:16 GMT
Article-I.D.: bcsaic.70851
Organization: Boeing Computer Services AI Center, Seattle

In article <1992Apr8.163618.1237@kopachuk.uucp> dcb@kopachuk.uucp (David Breneman) writes:
>In article <7590005@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> vernon@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (Vernon King) writes:
>>                                             People who move here can be from
>>many places with high property values but we seem in the PNW to pick on the
>>people from California. I prefer to use the truth to fight the influx. Tell
>>them how much it rains. How big the slugs are and how they will eat your kitty
>>if you do not take care. etc etc
>>
>I think Californians are held in low regard for several *rational* reasons.
>Obviously, this is painting a whole group of people with the same brush,
>but they encourage it (see reason #3):
>1) Lack of regard for their new community.  This consists of building
>stucco homes with tile roofs (makes about as much sense as a log cabin in
>Palm Springs), putting up large fences and walls with security gates,
>destroying every living thing on a building lot before constructing
>these items, therefore leading to erosion.
>2) Desire to change their new community into the one they came from.
>This includes lobbying for installation of natural gas lines, sewers and
>water mains.  The last two are especially expensive for their neighbors
>who are then forced to connect to them as well at high cost.  Also the
>refusal to patronize "mom & pop" stores, leading to their failure and
>the increase of chain stores.  Also, the use of tremendous amounts of
>outdoor lighting, leading to vast inreases in light pollution.
>3) Poor driving habits.  This includes blowing stop signs, pulling out
>in front of other cars from driveways and side streets, driving 10-20
>miles an hour below the speed limit, cutting others off in traffic, etc.
>Combined with this, they hold onto their California license plates as long
>as possible (usually illegally) thus depriving their new "home" state of
>badly needed highway funds.  THIS ALSO MAKES THEM HIGHLY VISIBLE AND
>CONTRIBUTES TO PREJUDICE AGAINST THEM.
>
>
Sorry to break your bubble, David, but I know many NATIVE Washingtonions
who share these qualities you describe.  It isn't the Californians who
want to keep logging our forrests, it's the people who have worked in
them for generations.  It isn't ALWAYS California developers cutting
down acres of trees for housing developments.  It is often native
Seattleites cutting you off in traffic.  It isn't just the Californians
who use the Malls and Mini-malls.

My family has ALSO been in Seattle for over 100 years, but I just can't
condone California Bashing.  It may be Emmett Watson's thing, but some
people get TOO carried away.  Some people who have moved here from "That
state" have been SERIOUSLY harrassed.  

Gee, what does that say about the "warm friendly" people of the
Northwest?

Jann "Native for 100 years and NOT hostile about it" VanOver
vanover@atc.boeing.com
From: vernon@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (Vernon King)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: Re: Tell me about Seattle
Date: 7 Apr 92 14:41:45 GMT
Article-I.D.: hpcvaac.7590005
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon, USA

Todd, I assure you Californians are buying houses down here like crazy even
in Cornvalley. Houses are going up 10k a year. We have the same problems of
starter homes that the north end of the valley has. I understand how you 
feel but some of the posters were very rude. People who move here can be from
many places with high property values but we seem in the PNW to pick on the
people from California. I prefer to use the truth to fight the influx. Tell
them how much it rains. How big the slugs are and how they will eat your kitty
if you do not take care. etc etc


What I find most interesting about this issue is how a person can move to the
PNW and five years later act and think like they have lived here their whole
life. They seem to conveniently forget that alot of people moved here from
other places.


Vernon (Moved from Upstate New York 16 years ago)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
From: chrisbw@PDaXcess.techbook.com (Chris Wisehart)
Subject: Re: Progeny limits
Organization: Portland Public Access sponsored by TECHbooks Bookstore
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 13:58:51 GMT

There are more than enough resources availble to sustain our present 
biosphere forever, even with billions of humans.  Some time ago an 
article in "Scientific American" magazine stated that New York city could 
never populate over one million people, because they would be knee deep 
in horse manure.
 
Let me give an example of one possibility I believe to be feasable with 
this decade.  Imagine a transportation system hauling all the earths 
waste to one place where a system of lasers control the fusion 
transformation of this waste into usable elements, i.e. gold, silver etc. 
The excess energy generated from this industry would be use to supply 
electricity to the world at a very small cost.  

Of course making gold cheap and energy free would upset our values.

--
chrisbw@PDaXcess.techbook.com (Chris Wisehart) (Public Access User)
PDaXcess gives free access to news & mail. (503) 644-8135 - 1200/2400, N81  
Send to info@techbook.com for more information.
Public access users are <NOT> affiliated with TECHbooks.
From: ace@tidbits.halcyon.com (Adam C. Engst)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: Re: Tell me about Seattle
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 92 12:21:41 PDT
Reply-To: ace@tidbits.halcyon.com (Adam C. Engst)
Distribution: pnw
Organization: TidBITS


In article <1992Apr6.200553.1174@tc.fluke.COM>, moriarty@tc.fluke.COM (Jeff Meyer) writes:
> >	1. What is the insect and arachnid life like?  
> 
> In a green peppercorn sauce, delicious.

Really now, Jeff, the best way to experience the local insect and
arachnid life is scattered on top of a latte's foam. Peppercorns (or 
capers) would completely overwhelm the subtle taste.

cheers ... -Adam

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
      Adam C. Engst             |     We sharpen the cutting edge.
Editor of TidBITS, the weekly   |   "The best way to predict the future
electronic industry newsletter  |         is to invent it."   -Alan Kay
            -----------------------------------------------
            ace@tidbits.halcyon.com  -or-  ace@tidbits.uucp        
     info@tidbits.halcyon.com (for more information about TidBITS)
Newsgroups: pnw.general,rec.travel,uw.general
From: bruceki@polari.com
Subject: Re: anyone know about the Pacific Crest Trail?
Keywords: what can you tell me?
Organization: Seattle Online Public Access Unix (206) 328-4944
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 00:31:07 GMT

In article <1992Apr15.231128.24650@u.washington.edu> badcheck@hardy.u.washington.edu writes:
>I'm looking for info on something called the Pacific Crest Trail.
>I think it runs from WA to CA, but I'm not sure.  Has anyone hiked
>it, heard of it, or know where I can get info on it?
>thanks,
>craig

  It's easiest to hike from british
columbia to California because it's all
downhill.  Any outdoor sports store
will have all of the information you 
want abhout this trail; it's one of the
most famous trails in the country...

Newsgroups: pnw.general
From: paul@maunakea.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Paul Brownlow)
Subject: Re: Tell me about Seattle
Organization: Data I/O Corporation
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 16:47:14 GMT

In article <9356@wrgate.wr.tek.com>, peterk@fury.wr.tek.com (Peter Krystad) writes:
|> 
|> Seattle has reasonable building codes, now. Not anything like California's, 
|> mind you. The old buildings are just that. Look at what happened in San
|> Fransisco. Seventy percent of Seattle will crash to the ground with the first
|> shot over 6.0.

We had a 6.5 in in 1965 with no major damage.  The worst thing I remember
about that one is my neighbor's house caught on fire because some flammables
fell off of a shelf in his garage.  We had a 7.1 in 1949, but I wasn't around
for that one.

The old buildings did fine in 1965.  I'd guess that Peter's statement is
hogwash; 1965 is my proof.  He doesn't have anything to worry about, though.
He's in Oregon.
-- 
Paul Brownlow				| 1992 Memorial Cup Tournament 
Data I/O Corp.  Redmond, WA		|       May 9-17, 1992
paul@data-io.com			|     Seattle, Washington
					|      CHL/WHL/OHL/QMJHL
From: mrc@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU (Mark Crispin)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: Seattle and jaywalking tickets
Date: 12 Apr 92 19:22:52 GMT
Article-I.D.: Tomobiki.MS-C.703106572.1147902781.mrc
Organization: University of Washington
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Mime-Version: 1.0

I once witnessed the following incident.  A girl was waiting at an
intersection for the light to change.  It started raining, and she didn't have
any raingear.  She looked in all directions and seeing *no* traffic, decided
to cross.

From two blocks away a Seattle cop came roaring up on his motorcycle, blowing
away two red lights and riding on the wrong side of the road, xmas tree lights
flashing.  What was the critical emergency that sent this officer in such hot
pursuit?

You got it.  It was to give her a jaywalking ticket.

It was at that point that I realized why crime is rising so dramatically in
Seattle.  I've talked with a few Seattle cops and they *hate* doing this, but
they are subject to quotas (officially quotas don't exist, but there are
`performance evaluations') and have to write n tickets within a period or face
a reprimand.
From: ts@cup.portal.com (Tim W Smith)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: Re: Our gripe with Californians (was Re: Tell me about Seattle)
Date: Thu,  9 Apr 92 20:04:00 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1992Apr8.163618.1237@kopachuk.uucp>

> 2) Desire to change their new community into the one they came from.
> This includes lobbying for installation of natural gas lines, sewers and
> water mains.  The last two are especially expensive for their neighbors

Now this is the kind of information I wanted about Seattle.  They sure
didn't tell me in "Places Rated Almanac" that Seattle doesn't have
sewers and water mains! :-)

							Tim Smith
From: mercedes_mcintosh@ces1smtp.WV.TEK.COM (Mercy )
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: 66 Mustang Convertible
Date: 16 Apr 92 17:52:34 GMT
Article-I.D.: shaman.811
Organization: Tektronix

For Sale.  Fully restored.  503-640-9231 ask for Steve.
From: briank@kimbro.uucp (D. Brian Kimmel at home)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: Re: anyone know about the Pacific Crest Trail?
Keywords: what can you tell me?
Date: 16 Apr 92 08:28:54 GMT
Article-I.D.: kimbro.1992Apr16.082854.8647
Reply-To: briank@kimbro.Celestial.COM
Distribution: pnw
Organization: Brian Kimmel - Home system,  Seattle, Wa

badcheck@hardy.u.washington.edu writes:

>I'm looking for info on something called the Pacific Crest Trail.
>I think it runs from WA to CA, but I'm not sure.  Has anyone hiked
>it, heard of it, or know where I can get info on it?

It runc from Canada to Mexico.  In the Seattle area it crosses
I-90 at Snoqualmie pass summit and Route 2 at Stevens pass summit.

Try getting some Green Trails maps (REI has them).
-- 
D. Brian Kimmel - home system	Email: briank@kimbro.UUCP
4100 SW Edmunds St #205                uunet!camco!kimbro!briank
Seattle WA, 98116               (206) 937-5742      Modem: (206) 937-6779
From: frankm@master.CNA.TEK.COM (Frank 'Scruff' Miller)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: UW vs USC
Date: 13 Apr 92 16:55:54 GMT
Article-I.D.: master.2746
Distribution: pnw
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Redmond,  OR.

Howdy!

I'm looking for a set of tickets for the UW / USC game on Oct 3!
Hopefully a set of 2 or 4 .... 

Thanks,

Frank
--
Frank 'Scruff' Miller      Gritty Kitty ain't so pretty, but it's really thick.
Unix Systems Administrator It fills my cat box oh so snug,
frankm@master.CNA.TEK.COM  it always does the trick!!!
Newsgroups: pnw.general
From: kurt@eskimo.celestial.com (Kurt Cockrm 762-6417)
Subject: Re: progeny limits (was "...toxicity of wood smoke")
Keywords: population explosion
Organization: Cores 'R Us
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 21:55:01 GMT

In article <1992Apr9.201129.2372@kopachuk.uucp> dcb@kopachuk.uucp (David Breneman) writes:
>In article <1992Apr5.013006.4552@eskimo.celestial.com> kurt@eskimo.celestial.com (Kurt Cockrm 762-6417) writes:
>>
>>Overpopulation is intimately tied in to capitalist pro-growth philosophies
>
>Beg pardon?

Overpopulation:  Maybe I should have said "Lots of people".  Capitalists may
disagree that "Lots of people" is the same as overpopulation, after all, it's
probably optimal as far as they are concerned.  There are 2 main kinds of
capitalists: corporate, and state.  Other kinds of capitalists exist, such as
anarcho-capitalists, but they aren't germane here.

Pro-growth: Capitalism includes as part of it's belief system the idea that
to remain viable, a society/economy/whatever has to keep on growing, consuming
whatever resources are necessary for its sustenance.  It is this belief that is
at the root of pro-growth philosophies.

People are part of the resources processed by the dominant economic system
on this planet, capitalism.  A high population is good for capitalism, so it
is and has been believed.

kurt@grogatch.celestial.com (Kurt Cockrum)
From: peterd@polari.com
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: Re: Our gripe with Californians (was Re: Tell me about Seattle)
Date: 13 Apr 92 23:52:49 GMT
Article-I.D.: polari.1992Apr13.235249.10050
Organization: Seattle Online Public Access Unix.  (206) 328-4944 (all lines telebit-equipped)

t's not the ones that MOVE here, and fade into the woodwork.
Its the ones that come here and are upset that it's not
California (Read "LA").

But it's not just the Californicators, its the whole outsider
bit: I knew I'd 'gone' native when I wrote friends saying
I doubted I'd be going back east that year - and they lived
in Oklahoma!
\
oregon born and oregon bread
stongin the back
thick in the head

a sh*t the editorjust ewent halfplex
Newsgroups: pnw.general
From: tsang@cs.washington.edu (Donald Tsang)
Subject: Re: Our gripe with Californians (was Re: Tell me about Seattle)
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, U. of Washington, Seattle
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 92 23:23:03 GMT

In article <2477@voodoo.UUCP> stu@voodoo.boeing.com writes:
>In article <> dcb@kopachuk.uucp (David Breneman) writes:
>>Combined with this, they hold onto their California license plates as long
>>as possible (usually illegally) thus depriving their new "home" state of
>>badly needed highway funds.  THIS ALSO MAKES THEM HIGHLY VISIBLE AND
>>CONTRIBUTES TO PREJUDICE AGAINST THEM.
>
>Well, there's a simple solution to this problem of out-of-state license
>plates.  Just do like I do, when you happen to see one near your home,
>follow them to their house and get the license # and the house #.
>Next, wait for one month and return to that house.  If the car still
>has the out-o-state plate on it, just provide the information to the
>state patrol.  They will be more than happy to contact these people and
>have them purchase WA plates and maybe even pay a small fine to boot!
>This is especially satisfying when the vehicle is a Mercedes or BMW.

Except for one thing: I believe it's legal for full-time students to
keep their out-of-state plates.

Okay, I admit it, I'm a Californian (but I'm a grad student!  I didn't
move here for good... yet...).  But I can drive in the rain, I recycle,
I drive fast in the fast lane and slow in the slow lane, I signal my
lane changes, and I dislike Palm Trees.

In fact, your gripe with Californians might be partially misdirected.
Everyone else knows that the *real* evil is in *Southern*
California...  :)


BTW - Seattle (all of WA?) drivers, you *do* know about the newish law,
      stating that one is not allowed to drive in the left lane of a
      (4+ lane) highway except to pass?

      Okay, so there are a few common-sense caveats:
      (a) should only apply when the traffic is relatively light
      (b) left-offramps are okay, of course
      (c) whatever else I haven't thought of

      But the point is, when that WSP car comes blaring up the left
      lane with his lights flashing, it's a _reminder_ that you
      shouldn't be there.  Don't just fall back into the left lane when
      he passes.  I'm sure the officer claps his hand to his forehead
      more than once during such runs...

-- 
Donald Tsang                    "Ho!  Haha!  Guard!  Turn!  Parry!  Dodge!
tsang@june.cs.washington.edu     Spin!  Ha!  Thrust!"
..!uw-beaver!june!tsang                       -- Robin Hood Daffy
From: bill@Celestial.COM (Bill Campbell)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: Re: Seattle and jaywalking tickets
Date: 15 Apr 92 00:26:48 GMT
Article-I.D.: Celestia.1992Apr15.002648.14869
Distribution: pnw
Organization: Celestial Software, Mercer Island, WA

In <UNCLE.92Apr14101220@milton.milton.u.washington.edu> uncle@milton.milton.u.washington.edu (Milton Friedmen) writes:

:> So jaywalking tickets have their place, especially when the behavior
:> is dangerous to self and others.

:This is actually, IMO, the only legitimate use for jaywalking tickets - as
:evidence for insurance claims and lawsuits.  Otherwise they are a nuisance to
:society.

You haven't seen the havoc jaywalking does to traffic in a city
at rush hour.  Pedestrians continuing to walk against the light
are a major source of congestion during rush hour (as are drivers
who pull into an intersection when they can't get to the other side).

When I lived in Baltimore they had something called a ``Barnes
Dance'' where all traffic got a red light and pedestrians had the
entire intersection so they could walk diagonally across if they
chose.  This made a lot of sense and was one of the things that
traffic commissioner Barnes did to improve traffic flow in
Baltimore City.

The other major factors were one-way streets and properly synchronised
traffic lights.  I could generally turn onto Charles Street from
Baltimore Street heading north, hit one red light, then drive thirty
blocks to Johns Hopkins without another red light -- AT RUSH HOUR!

Bill
-- 
INTERNET:  bill@Celestial.COM   Bill Campbell; Celestial Software
UUCP:   ...!thebes!camco!bill   6641 East Mercer Way
             uunet!camco!bill   Mercer Island, WA 98040; (206) 947-5591
SPEED COSTS MONEY -- HOW FAST DO YOU WANT TO GO?
From: rudoff@mdd.comm.mot.com (Doug Rudoff)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: Re: Our gripe with Californians (was Re: Tell me about Seattle)
Date: 9 Apr 92 16:22:12 GMT
Article-I.D.: mdd.1992Apr9.162212.11288
Organization: Motorola, Mobile Data Division - Seattle, WA

In article <1992Apr8.163618.1237@kopachuk.uucp> dcb@kopachuk.uucp (David Breneman) writes:
>I think Californians are held in low regard for several *rational* reasons.
>Obviously, this is painting a whole group of people with the same brush,
>but they encourage it (see reason #3):

[Various complaints about things that many people do, but since he
doesn't like Californians, it's all their fault]

 - California is the most populous state.
 - One out of nine people in the U.S.A. lives in California.
 - California is close to Washington.

Given the above, it's not suprising that most people moving to
Washington from out of state are from California.

Beware of creating predjudices to blame certain people for things you
don't like.

Besides, I've read the number of people moving to California from
Washington is about the same as the number moving to Washington from
California.

(Washingtonian since '89)
-- 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Doug Rudoff          Motorola, Seattle    INTERNET:rudoff@mdd.comm.mot.com
                                            USENET:uunet!mdisea!rudoff   
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
From: jay@intermec.com (Jay Schlegel x6878)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: Re: Our gripe with Californians (was Re: Tell me about Seattle)
Date: 14 Apr 92 23:01:28 GMT
Article-I.D.: intermec.1803
Reply-To: jay@intermec.com (Jay Schlegel x6878)
Organization: Intermec Corporation, Everett WA



   This is most encouraging!

   I've felt for some time that a sustained reemergence of Californian-
   bashing would be an early indicator of economic recovery.

-- 
-*jay  Jay Schlegel --> Intermec Corp., Everett Wa.
						     fluke!
	jay@intermec.com      OR  -->	    uunet!pilchuck!intermec!jay
From: billh@hplsla.hp.com (Bill Harris)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: Re: Radio Towers and EMF
Date: 9 Apr 92 17:01:08 GMT
Article-I.D.: hplsla.3440049
Organization: HP Lake Stevens, WA

In my previous response, when I said that those two risks were
statistically significant, I should have quantified the comment.  (While
these results were statistically significant, they may not have been very
significant.) Risk was indicated as an odds ratio with an associated
confidence interval.  For B&W televisions and hair dryers, the odds ratio
and confidence intervals were:

                Odds ratio      Confidence interval

B&W TV             1.49              1.01 - 2.23
Hair dryers        2.82              1.42 - 6.32

For comparison, the results for a child's exposure to some other items
listed were:

Electric clock w/ dial
                   1.86              0.97 - 3.83
Video game         1.57              0.80 - 3.27
Microwave oven     0.81              0.48 - 1.36

Note that this is just the result of one focused study (although it's the
latest I know about), so it's not clear (at least to me) what the real
story is.

Bill Harris
billh@lsid.hp.com      

#include <std.disclaimer>
                
Newsgroups: pnw.general