From: jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Josh 'K' Hopkins)
Subject: Re: Is NASA really planning to Terraform Mars?
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 21:45:32 GMT

sysmgr@king.eng.umd.edu (Doug Mohney) writes:

>In article <1992Sep11.042246.22983@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>, knapp@spot.Colorado.EDU (David Knapp) writes:

[Lots of wrods from both sides deleted.  I'm not sure I cut out much substance]

>>>Besides, population growth is self-correcting.
>>Ultimately, yes, but you won't like the way it corrects itself.

>Let me key you in: Starvation in Ethopia and Somalia is due to political
>warfare and strife, not because there's a lack of food production. We're not
>going to starve ourselves off the planet. 

I've always wondered about logic like this.  I suppose the increasing 
population in sub-saharan Africa to going to stabilize politics thus
making food available?  Sure.  Makes sense to me.  If there's food in the 
grain elevator they have no excuse for going around and starving themselves to
they?

>>>We've been running out of fossil fuels for 100 years. Before that, there was a
>>>fear of a great shortage of whale oil, due to overhunting. 
>>
>>No, we will *run out* of fossil fuels in less than fifty years.

>Allegedly. Before we run out, the price on a barrel of oil will go up. 

>What happens when the price of oil goes up? People start to conserve,
>industries develop new technologies to extract oil more efficiently, and
>alternatives are developed which are price competitive to substitute for oil. 

I see, so In ten years, all those green technologies the crazy tree huggers
have been working on are going to be suitably conservative for you to use?
(Okay, it's a little bit of a stretch to call a poor engineer forced to wear a
tie a "tree hugger").

>>When we do run out of fossil fuels, I'm sure I won't see you shoving to get
>>an electric car because you were so convinced it wouldn't be an issue. I hope
>>you like the bus.

>Naw, I'll be drivin' my Saturn III (GM, not NASA product:) past your raggy
>eco-bike with my "John DeArmond for President" bumpersticker in your face. 
>:->

And I'll be driving a GM Impact which I saved up for by turing off the lights
when I wasn't using them and riding my bike when I didn't need a car.
If you think electric cars or even bikes have to be "raggy" you obviously
aren't very familiar with either.

>>No, really, I see what you're saying, until we see that it is a problem, 
>>we should not worry about it. Good strategy.

>Sounds good. Prove to me there is a problem. 

I seriously doubt that my computer will get stolen, but it's insured.  
Similarly, I don't mind suggesting someone with her hair piled a foot high 
should make the ultimate acrifice and skip her aerosol can tomorrow.  I don't
mind doing my errands all at once to save gas.  

>Will you be the first to
>hang yourself in order to save the ecosystem? 

I assume this was meant sarcastically, but there are people out there so rabidly
against the concept of evironmental concern that they have these reactions 
seriously.

-- 
Josh Hopkins           "If you are sitting in an exit row and you cannot read
                       this card or cannot see well enough to follow these
		       instructions, please tell a crew member."
j-hopkins@uiuc.edu                       -United Airlines safety instructions
Newsgroups: sci.space