HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dme@cs.bu.edu (David Evans)
Newsgroups: ne.seminars
Subject: Boston Combined Schedule
Date: 24 Jul 92 20:36:17 GMT

Notices for meetings and lectures within the next 14 days
Events recently publicized are excluded.
We have no other information about these events; some, however,
have a phone number or address for additional details or confirmation.

  Tue 28 Jul  7:30 pm  Grist Mill Restaurant, Bow, New Hampshire at the
junction of I-89 and I-93, across from the Hampton Inn, which has a big sign.
Take "Bow/Local Traffic Only" un-numbered exit off I-89
Speaker: "Sasi" Sasidhar of Dharma Systems
"their work in moving data from old proprietary DBMSs into UNIX database
systems, using Structured Query Language in various ways"
Host: Northern New England UNIX User Group
From: marston@coos.dartmouth.edu (David Marston)
Newsgroups: ne.seminars
Subject: Northern New England UNIX User Group
Date: 22 Jul 92 03:55:41 GMT
Distribution: ne
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
Originator: marston@coos.dartmouth.edu

The Northern New England UNIX User Group will meet on Tuesday, July 28,
in Bow, New Hampshire. The meeting will take place at the Grist Mill
restaurant starting at 7:30 PM.  For our main presentation, "Sasi" Sasidhar
of Dharma Systems will talk about some of their work in moving data from old
proprietary DBMSs into UNIX database systems. Their products involve using
Structured Query Language in various ways.

The Grist Mill is easy to find at the junction of I-89 and I-93. It's
across the street from the Hampton Inn, which has a big sign. Take the
"Bow/Local Traffic Only" un-numbered exit off I-89. Whether coming
north or south on I-89, you will turn left at the end of the exit ramp,
then look for the Grist Mill on the left, across from the Hampton Inn.
If coming south on I-93 to get to I-89, keep in mind that the Bow exit
comes *immediately* after the on-ramp from I-93.
Newsgroups: wpi.cs,ne.seminars
From: roberta@maxine.wpi.edu (Roberta Baker)
Subject: WPI Computer Science Colloquium 7/29
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Distribution: ne
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 20:54:07 GMT



		   WPI COMPUTER SCIENCE COLLOQUIUM
		   Wednesday, July 29 at 11:00 a.m.
			   Fuller Labs 311

	    A CONCURRENT ENGINEERING DEMONSTRATION SYSTEM

			Robert E. Douglas, Jr.
		   WPI Computer Science Department
			MS Thesis Presentation

Concurrent Engineering (CE) has already initiated a cultural change in
the design and manufacturing of new products.  CE is expected to lead
to better engineered and faster built products.  But, in order for a
company to take advantage of the power of CE, the members of product
development teams have to be educated about the CE methodology,
including issues such as how decisions made about one aspect of a
design can affect other aspects.  They also have to be educated about
the usefulness of the tools that can be used for CE, and the need for
their integration.  Those tools include intelligent agents which can
be used to offer design suggestions and criticisms.

This talk will introduce CE concepts and will define those ingredients
of CE which are essential.  It will also discuss the project to build
a CE demonstration system to be used for educational purposes. The
system, called Sneakers, provides a design environment and
demonstrates the essential aspects of CE, in a way that they can be
intuitively understood.  This research was supported by a grant from
the Design For Manufacture Institute at Digital Equipment Corporation.


 *** For directions to WPI, send email to roberta@cs.wpi.edu ***



Newsgroups: ne.politics
From: dlw@odi.com (Dan Weinreb)
Subject: Re: rko's gene burns     
Reply-To: dlw@odi.com
Organization: Object Design, Inc.
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 15:00:37 GMT

In article <gate.7c0BoB1w164w@buscard.fidonet.org> dand@buscard.fidonet.org (Dan Davidson) writes:


   No radio talk show of whatever color could ever entice me, and no TV
   talk show can hold me for more than five minutes.

   Intolerant?  No, just impatient with ill-considered convictions from
   people with no credentials.

Every so often, "Talk of the Nation" on NPR (afternoons 2-4) ends up
with a whole string of callers who ask reasonably intelligent
questions.  Sometimes it's fairly interesting.  It depends a lot on
the nature of the day's guest(s).

Newsgroups: ne.politics
From: dlw@odi.com (Dan Weinreb)
Subject: Re: Rapist's lawyer opens victim's private files???!
Reply-To: dlw@odi.com
Organization: Object Design, Inc.
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 17:12:10 GMT

In article <BrzA81.It2@world.std.com> fhapgood@world.std.com (Fred Hapgood) writes:

   Anyway, the fundamental point is that no matter what the error rate
   is, it can't possibly be higher than the average of the other
   categories of evidence used in a trial.  

Can't?  I don't know, I'd have to see all the scientific evidence
about what the error rate in practice might be.  I'd like to see the
specific arguments against the uses of the tests.  I can imagine all
kinds of issues that might arise such that even if the tests have very
high reliability when done in a lab under ideal lab conditions, they
might not be so reliable and unbiased when done under actual police
conditions.  There doesn't seem to be much point in speculating
without first finding out what the best arguments are on either side.

Since "expert scientific forensic evidence" is likely to be highly
persuasive to a jury (based on what I've read), it behooves us to be
pretty damned sure of the reliability of such a technique before it's
considered acceptable evidence in criminal court.

We also should not expect a single definite resolution.  Consider the
acceptable of polygraphs.  The courts have repeatedly rejected them
for criminal trials, feeling that they just don't prove anything and
are too likely to be excessively persuasive to a jury (who will feel
that the machine can prove whether someone is lying).  But polygraphs
are still around, and in some quarters (e.g. recruiting new officers
for the CIA) they are taken very seriously.  So controversies about the
value of various kinds of "scientific" evidence can last a long time.
From: jlacey@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (james.w.lacey)
Newsgroups: ne.politics
Subject: Re: Why did the Red line cross the tracks?
Date: 30 Jul 92 16:45:15 GMT
Distribution: ne
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Jul29.164029.16195@kronos.com> richb@kronos.com (Rich Braun) writes:
>...
>Whenever anyone proposes doing the above (opening a new trolley line,
>or the like) people howl that it'll be inconvenient and costly.  THAT'S
>JUST BECAUSE THE T DOESN'T EVEN WANT TO CONSIDER TRANSFERS.  Public
>demand for the system would skyrocket if they'd just grant us this one
>little thing.  It'd even be worth a fare increase.
>
>So, why is that that the T's is so intransigent on this?  What's the
>history and the modern-day rationale?
>...

While I dont know the T's rationale, I thought I would explain
how a different systems works so people can understand the
T's shortcomings.

In Munich, the subway, trolley, and bus lines are run by the same
authority.  To use the system, a rider buys a ticket and inserts
it into a time stamping machine upon entering the train or bus.
(Discounted strips of tickets and monthy passes also available.)
The rider has one hour to complete the trip, and shows the
stamped ticket upon entering the next train or bus as a transfer. 
A rider can even make a short-haul round trip on one fare.  

Plain-clothes transit police have the authority to stop riders
to see their tickets.  If a person is caught cheating the system
(by not stamping their ticket for example) the officer fines
the person $30 to be paid on the spot or go to jail.

-- 
     Jim Lacey  --  my own opinions    
     email:  att!cbnewsl!jlacey  or  jlacey@cbnewsl.cb.att.com
     D'ou venons-nous? Que sommes-nous? Ou allons-nous?
From: murph@buscard.fidonet.org (Brian Murphy)
Newsgroups: ne.politics
Subject: Re: rko's gene burns     
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 10:12:07 EDT
Organization: The Business Card (BBS), Lawrence, MA - Data: 508-682-5329

dand@buscard.fidonet.org (Dan Davidson) writes:

> No radio talk show of whatever color could ever entice me, and no TV
> talk show can hold me for more than five minutes.
> 
> Intolerant?  No, just impatient with ill-considered convictions from
> people with no credentials.

Hi, Dan!

I was just the same way - strictly into the FM dial tuning in my favorite 
progressive rock (thanks, WFNX) when an old friend, Larry Giordano, ran 
for the Representative's seat in Methuen.  I decided to tune into the 
local station for up-to-date news on how he was doing.  Of course, the 
local station was mostly news on the AM band (WLLH).  Someone there 
mentioned that he was going to be interviewed on 'RKO and from then on I 
was hooked!  I couldn't BELIEVE it!  <grin>  I actually wanted to call 
them up and tell 'em I was a convert from the FM band!  :-)

Ill-considered convictions from people with no credentials?  Not with 
Gene Burns!  *THAT* man does his homework!  When he interviews an author, 
he actually reads the book and it shows!  When discussing the issue of 
the day, for the full four hours he has his views challenged and is 
always able to offer a _reasoned_ argument - nothing knee-jerk about this 
guy!

He's not a slave to ideology.

                                - - - Murph

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
The Business Card (BBS), Lawrence, Massachusetts - Data: (508) 682-5329
SysAdmin:  murph@buscard.fidonet.org / ...!ulowell!wizvax!buscard!murph
From: gjc@mitech.com (George J. Carrette)
Newsgroups: ne.politics
Subject: Re: Rapist's lawyer opens victim's private files???!
Date: 24 Jul 92 11:35:56 GMT
Organization: Mitech Corporation, Concord MA

In article <GORDON.92Jul23142509@gandalf.think.com>, gordon@gandalf.think.com (gordon linoff) writes:
> In article <2165@mitech.com> gjc@mitech.com (George J. Carrette) writes:
> 
>    Clearly the rapist is deemed more worthy of protection. by the SJC,
>    and the great court.
> 
> The accused rapist.  It's important to remember that he has
> not yet been convicted of any crime.
> 
> --gordon

Quite a false assumption on your part. "not yet convicted of *any* crime"
If only it were true!

Unfortunately the courts are full up with defendants who 
HAVE BEEN CONVICTED OF RAPES in the past.

Therefore, it is perfectly reasonable for me to use term RAPIST when talking
about many of the defendants.

---

Here is a question. If you were falsely accused of rape, and you knew that
the DNA test had a false positive rate of say 1 in 100,000 would you
not take that chance? I mean, isn't that about the best odds you
could ever hope to get from the justice system?

On the other hand, if you knew you did commit the rape then you and
your lawyers would be working overtime to keep a DNA test result
away from the eyes of the jury.

The STUPID thing about the court ruling against the DNA tests is
that even with the drawbacks in the current tests the evidence is
vastly more reliable than just about anything you are likely to find
in a court of law. The "experts who cannot agree" are arguing about
probabilities of error that are extremely low.

What is the statistical false positive rate on convictions involving
the usual court evidence such as the eye witnesses, even reliable ones such
as a policeman is able to testify that he saw the person at the crime scene? 

-gjc
Newsgroups: ne.politics
From: dlw@odi.com (Dan Weinreb)
Subject: Re: in praise of scalpers
Reply-To: dlw@odi.com
Organization: Object Design, Inc.
Distribution: ne
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 20:01:30 GMT

In article <4952@transfer.stratus.com> tarl@sw.stratus.com (Tarl Neustaedter) writes:

   Any system that allocates resources based on willingness to waste time, is
   unacceptable in a nation which bases its wealth on productivity.

A person who is unable to find a job, and thus has plenty of time and
little money, might not feel the same way, though.

Newsgroups: ne.politics
From: grady@world.std.com (Dick Grady)
Subject: Re: Rapist's lawyer opens victim's private files???!
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 05:25:52 GMT

In article <2171@mitech.com> gjc@mitech.com (George J. Carrette) writes:
>What is the statistical false positive rate on convictions involving
>the usual court evidence such as the eye witnesses, even reliable ones such
>as a policeman is able to testify that he saw the person at the crime scene? 

Eye witness accounts often are not very reliable. For example,
from the Lawrence (MA) Eagle-Tribune, July 27 1992, page 5:

                  Man injured in hit-and-run

  ...  about 8:57 a.m.  ...
  The driver then backed up and hit him again, witnesses told police.
  ...
  Accounts of what kind of car he was driving varied from a red pick-up
  truck, to a gray Mazda to a brown Toyota.


-- 
            Dick Grady               grady@world.std.com
From: bzs@ussr.std.com (Barry Shein)
Newsgroups: ne.politics
Subject: Re: in praise of scalpers
Date: 23 Jul 92 03:22:08 GMT
	<BZS.92Jul19010746@ussr.std.com> <4952@transfer.stratus.com>
	<1992Jul22.200130.23009@odi.com>
Distribution: ne
Organization: The World


From: dlw@odi.com (Dan Weinreb)
>   Any system that allocates resources based on willingness to waste time, is
>   unacceptable in a nation which bases its wealth on productivity.
>
>A person who is unable to find a job, and thus has plenty of time and
>little money, might not feel the same way, though.

That's a good point, if you're living within modest means then
"wasting time" to save money *is* productive. Remember a penny saved
is a penny earned? That's why some people who don't make a lot of
money "waste their time" baking their own bread or making their own
clothes. For them it's equivalent to productivity, or at the very
least taking advantage of what opportunities they see.

They may not understand how to make a killing on the stock market, but
they do understand that waiting on line for a cheaper ticket or baking
bread for 30c a loaf rather than paying $1.50 at the store is
relatively speaking, productive.

There's a fine line between spending your time making money and
spending some time saving it.

--
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD
From: betsys@cs.umb.edu (Elizabeth Schwartz)
Newsgroups: ne.politics
Subject: Re: rko's gene burns
Date: 24 Jul 92 19:40:00 GMT
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Boston

In article <wyBDoB1w164w@buscard.fidonet.org> murph@buscard.fidonet.org (Brian Murphy) writes:

> > No radio talk show of whatever color could ever entice me, and no TV
> > talk show can hold me for more than five minutes.
> I was just the same way - strictly into the FM dial tuning in my favorite 

> mentioned that he was going to be interviewed on 'RKO and from then on I 
> was hooked!  I couldn't BELIEVE it!  <grin>  I actually wanted to call 
> them up and tell 'em I was a convert from the FM band!  :-)

> Gene Burns!  *THAT* man does his homework!  When he interviews an author, 
> he actually reads the book and it shows!  When discussing the issue of 

So when is this paragon of reasoning on? <grin>
I'd like to get hooked, I mean, hear for myself.

--
System Administrator                  Internet: betsys@cs.umb.edu
MACS Dept, UMass/Boston               BITNET:ESCHWARTZ%UMBSKY.DNET@NS.UMB.EDU
100 Morrissy Blvd                     Staccato signals
Boston, MA 02125-3393                      of constant information....
From: gjc@mitech.com (George J. Carrette)
Newsgroups: ne.politics
Subject: Re: Rapist's lawyer opens victim's private files???!
Date: 28 Jul 92 07:54:47 GMT
Organization: Mitech Corporation, Concord MA

In article <1992Jul27.171210.1344@odi.com>, dlw@odi.com (Dan Weinreb) writes:
> Since "expert scientific forensic evidence" is likely to be highly
> persuasive to a jury (based on what I've read), it behooves us to be
> pretty damned sure of the reliability of such a technique before it's
> considered acceptable evidence in criminal court.

It only took about 50 years for fingerprinting to be generally accepted 
as evidence.

> But polygraphs
> are still around, and in some quarters (e.g. recruiting new officers
> for the CIA) they are taken very seriously.  So controversies about the
> value of various kinds of "scientific" evidence can last a long time.

A polygraph is nothing but a good tool, much better than a hot light shined in 
the eyes, or a quick slap across the face, to be used during 
INVESTIGATION/INTERROGATION. 

As my father in the secret service described it, the polygraph could be used
to play a person off against himself. Much in the same way the investigators
could play off two suspects being interrogated at the same time in
different rooms, could be used. Even a person who had been "trained to lie"
with the device. (And as children we were able to play with a polygraph
in just that way. This was before "biofeedback" was a fad). Because even
the trained liar could be tricked into thinking that he was in fact
failing the test. (The FBI and Secret Service had polygraphs that could
be "bumped" at will to make the person beleive that he was failing to
fool the device, even if he was fooling it.)

For the person being interrogated: 

  It is part of the old game of "how much do the cops really know"
  and how much are they, well, lying about in order to trick me?


Which is to say, a polygraph is an INTERROGATION tool. 

-gjc
From: murph@buscard.fidonet.org (Brian Murphy)
Newsgroups: ne.politics
Subject: Re: RKO's Gene Burns
Keywords: Liberal
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 11:10:33 EDT
Organization: The Business Card (BBS), Lawrence, MA - Data: 508-682-5329

dbrooks@osf.org (David Brooks) writes:

> |> Yeah, I don't understand the mindset in the People's Republic of
> |> Cambridge.  I suppose that makes me prejudiced against its residents.

> Why do you persist in this absurd delusion that I live in Cambridge?  Or,
> to be more relevant, that anyone who holds views you might consider to
> be -- no, I can't type the awful word; it begins and ends with "L" -- must
> live in Cambridge?  Or that anyone who lives in Cambridge must hold those
> views?  Bill Weld lives in C******e.
> 
> I find this pigeonholing to be insulting.

Please don't be insulted - I don't mean to be offensive.  I also have no 
idea where you live and couldn't care less.  If you remember, you called 
a man who is widely known for his conservative views a nasty name.  That 
particular slur is trademarked by the liberal crowd.  "Pompous ass" is 
not a common epithet (like f*cking @sshole is).  I've only heard it 
applied to my man Burns by those who generally oppose his views.

Since Cambridge is known as a mecca for the liberal mindset as Silicon 
Valley is known as the seat of all that computer nerds hold dear, your 
Burns-bashing made me think you share the liberal philosophy where you'd 
feel right at home in Cambridge.

> And Ted O'Brien is a shrill windbag.

Let's make a deal:  You bash Burns, I'll bash Cambridge, and we'll both 
beat O'Brien about the head and shoulders.

                                - - - Murph

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
The Business Card (BBS), Lawrence, Massachusetts - Data: (508) 682-5329
SysAdmin:  murph@buscard.fidonet.org / ...!ulowell!wizvax!buscard!murph
From: gordon@gandalf.think.com (gordon linoff)
Newsgroups: ne.politics
Subject: Re: Rapist's lawyer opens victim's private files???!
Date: 23 Jul 92 14:25:09
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: gandalf.think.com
In-reply-to: gjc@mitech.com's message of 23 Jul 92 09:03:22 GMT

In article <2165@mitech.com> gjc@mitech.com (George J. Carrette) writes:

   In article <1992Jul22.142457.17696@kronos.com>, richb@kronos.com (Rich Braun) writes:
   > Does anyone else here feel the same sense of outrage at yesterday's
   > Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court decision to uphold the $100 daily
   > fine against a rape crisis center which is withholding its patient's
   > confidential files from the attorney of the alleged rapist?

   Clearly the rapist is deemed more worthy of protection. by the SJC,
   and the great court.

The accused rapist.  It's important to remember that he has
not yet been convicted of any crime.

--gordon
From: rnewman@bbn.com (Ron Newman)
Newsgroups: ne.politics
Subject: Re: rko's gene burns
Date: 27 Jul 1992 17:34:27 GMT
Organization: Bolt, Beranek & Newman, Inc.
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: spcsun25.bbn.com

In article <BETSYS.92Jul24144000@ra.cs.umb.edu>, betsys@cs.umb.edu (Elizabeth Schwartz) writes:
|> In article <wyBDoB1w164w@buscard.fidonet.org> murph@buscard.fidonet.org (Brian Murphy) writes:

|> > Gene Burns!  *THAT* man does his homework!  When he interviews an author, 
|> > he actually reads the book and it shows!  When discussing the issue of 
|> 
|> So when is this paragon of reasoning on? <grin>
|> I'd like to get hooked, I mean, hear for myself.

10am to 2pm on WRKO.   I actually rather like him;  his politics
are far from my own, but he generally does know what he's talking
about.

Another person I'd put in the same category is David Brudnoy,
from 8?pm to midnight on WBZ.

Now if only the Left could come up with talk show hosts as good
as these two.

-- 
Ron Newman		rnewman@bbn.com
From: tarl@sw.stratus.com (Tarl Neustaedter)
Newsgroups: ne.politics
Subject: Re: Rapist's lawyer opens victim's private files???!
Date: 24 Jul 92 20:57:44 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <2171@mitech.com>, gjc@mitech.com (George J. Carrette) writes:
> Here is a question. If you were falsely accused of rape, and you knew that
> the DNA test had a false positive rate of say 1 in 100,000 would you
> not take that chance?

No. Because taking the test and getting the false is a guaranteed
conviction with no hope of appeal. 

> I mean, isn't that about the best odds you
> could ever hope to get from the justice system?

Perhaps you have better information about the justice system than I do,
but if I am genuinely innocent, I would take my chances in a trial, and
if incorrectly convicted, hope additional information would crop up to
eventually prove my innocence.

Besides, the issue about odds of failure has more to do with how the
data is interpreted and population distributions than the granularity
of the test. The testing companies were making claims of millions-to-one
odds based on the granularity of their tests, but this didn't account for
familial and racial similarities of dna patterns. It also didn't account
for interpretation problems (the process is not automatic, there is a
lot of adjusting by the tester), which further reduced the odds.

I don't know what the odds ended up at, but they didn't achieve the
billions-to-one that should guarantee even odds of not being confused
with another living human being.
-- 
         Tarl Neustaedter	tarl@sw.stratus.com
         Marlboro, Mass.	Stratus Computer
Disclaimer: My employer is not responsible for my opinions.
Newsgroups: ne.politics