From: smayo@wang.com (Scott Mayo)
Subject: Re: Hitler and Christianity
Organization: Wang Labs, Lowell MA, USA
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 21:55:35 GMT

cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:

>I am, however, alarmed at the frequent use
>christianity has as a tool for looney-tunes who peddle hate.

So am I, believe me.

>While nice christians do exist (big shock),...

:-)

>... the religion seems to lend itself well
>to prejudicial ends, as does one other.  Whenever you run into a big
>group of people (especially here in Uhmurka) that REALLY HATE one kind
>of person of another, they are ALWAYS using christianity to back them
>up.

It's an odd thing. When evangelical Christians (that's me) push for more
attention to the Bible and so on, it is usually because that is a fairly
good defense against the sort of hated-filled additions people try to make
to the faith. You don't find justifications of pogroms in the Nicene
creed or New Testament. But, of course, if you do push for such attention,
you're dogmatic and rule (or book) bound. (And you can *always* find some kook
who can "prove" wild things from the Bible, so it isn't a sure tenchique
anyway.)

The reason you see bigtime abuse of Christianity is not because it lends
itself especially to abuse. I can find abusable charactistics in *any*
philosophy. It is because so many folks are (or perhaps think they
are, but let's not get into that) Christians, so if you can graft your own
twisted beliefs into the system, you can gain a big following. It happened
in the Middle ages and it seems to happen in America today. You'd be
surprised at the number of fundamentalists (using the old meaning of the
word) who are appalled at the politicalization of Christianity and
Christian-associated topics. But of course, the ones being appalled don't
have access to prime time TV, so they go unnoticed.

>  Makes me think that the religion has to undergo a pretty thorough
>housecleaning to keep it from attracting hate-peddlers.  Just as with
>people, you can judge a church by the company it keeps, and some people
>who call themselves christians need to be broomed into the trashheap.

I agree. It is perfectly valid to judge a church by its actions. It should
happen more often.

However, there are some real flakes in the neo-pagan movement.
Not many, but that is because the neo-pagan movement itself is small
(compared to Christiandom.) I don't think you'd be happy if I made value
judgements about all of neo-paganism, based on a few oddballs who occasionally
fill my mailbox with incoherent thoughts (but don't usually post to
alt.pagan, it seems). And in fact I try not to do this.

I agree that some folks calling themselves Christians have no idea
what they are talking about. I don't think anything can be done about it,
either. Jesus saw the problem coming (look at the parable about the
weeds and the wheat) and offered no solution.

And anything with a following as big as Christianity's is *going* to attract
people with an agenda, hate-filled people, and kooks. You see the same
phenomena in the US goverment. And in most places in history. Vultures go
where the most meat is. You can blame the meat if you like.

Some pagans have this odd view, that all of Christianity is like the
mainstream catholic church, where there is a central authority on earth
who gives folk like televangelists the go ahead to preach this or that
idea in the name of Christianity. 'Taint so, folks. It isn't even strictly
that way in the catholic church, as I understand it; it is not true at all
in the protestant churches. Most Christians I know are horrified by some
of what gets taught on the airwaves in the name of Jesus. But these preachers
are answerable to no one but their followers, and if those followers keep
sending money...

>I honestly think that christianity needs to undergo a long, hard period of
>self-reflection and examination to find out why bigots are so attracted
>to it.

I think Christiandom need to do a *lot* of things. It is in no position to
rewrite its original creeds, but I for one don't think those creeds are the
problem.  A little clarification of what its creeds *are* would go a long way
(and that, originally, is what a fundamentlist was - someone who only
held the core creeds of Christianity. Boy is *that* term lost forever.)

>Blessings,
>Janis
Vaya con Dios,
Scott
--
These are only my opinions.  You should hear my convictions.
smayo@wang.com
From: radzy@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Lynne Radzykewycz)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 18:29:10 GMT
Subject: Re: jet, ruby
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server