HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sworking@leland.Stanford.EDU (Scott Workinger)
Subject: Re: have you heard of...
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 92 20:33:32 GMT

In article <MdtO1jK00UoJI4NSsp@andrew.cmu.edu>, sc1u+@andrew.cmu.edu (Stephen Chan) writes:
|> rakoczynskij@gtephx.UUCP (Jurek Rakoczynski) writes:
|> > It is misleading if you think that you need to learn a martial art. 
|> > The training *should* be focused on effectively learning selected
|> > techniques.
|> 
|> 	The instructor in the article seemed to be of the opinion that
|> its better to teach people the underlying principles of the
|> techniques, rather than the techniques themselves.
|> 

I would suggest that the purpose of learning a martial arts system is
to learn how to move in a certain way.  This is the real purpose of
forms.  But the forms are only a temporary training artifice.  Once
you have practiced the forms sufficiently, the style of movement becomes
natural.  One technique blends into another and you are able to 
extemporize well while still retaining the fundamental quality of 
movement that is characteristic of the system.  In this regard, a martial
arts system is much more than a set of techniques.  It is a quality of 
movement, a philosophy, and a mindset of the practitioners.  (eg.  Seeing
a master fight in snake style is enough to give most ordinary mortals
the 'creeps.'  He takes on the 'character' of a snake.)  In some 
traditional Chinese systems, once you learn a form, the teacher changes it.
This prevents your movements from becoming stale and mechanical.  Technique
is only a vehicle for mastery.  Mastery transcends technique.

|> > In a learning mode, I learned techniques not usually taught in MA's. 
|> > For example, how do you remove someone from a car whose hands are
|> > locked on the wheel and they refuse to move.  Try it at home!  It's
|> > not as easy as you would think.
|> 
|> 	To be "nice", I'd use a thumb peel to get their hand off the
|> steering wheel, and then try to apply a pain based wrist control. But
|> I kind of doubt that I'd have the finesse to carry it off.
|> 
|> > If there is some interest in (my opinion) on the subject, I'll
|> > follow-up as time allows.
|> > 
|> 
|> 	I'm interested (but then, I'm interested in most everything

If you don't need to be on speaking terms with the person afterwards,
then it's easy.  :)

More seriously, a good martial artist is part magician.  (ie. He knows
how to use indirection effectively.)  All you need to do is induce the
individual to forget about the steering wheel for a moment.  Think about
it.  It's not particularly difficult.
From: admiral.uucp!flash@uunet.uu.net (Gordon Wormser)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: good movies
Keywords: advice, movies
Date: 7 Apr 92 09:41:07 GMT
Article-I.D.: admiral.93TuiB1w164w
Reply-To: admiral.uucp!flash@uunet.uu.net (Gordon Wormser)
Organization: The Grid/Waffle BBS, 203-661-2873, -1279, -0450, -2967

Eric J. Nute <enute1@cc.swarthmore.edu> writes:

> Would you please help me!
> Would you recommend the best Jackie Chan movie and the best Bruce Lee movie. 

Jackie Chan:  Drunken Monkey in Tiger's Eye.
Bruce Lee:    Enter The Dragon.

--
admiral!flash@uunet.uu.net (Gordon Wormser) <uunet!admiral!flash>
The Admiral's Public UNIX - Greenwich, CT - System Administrator: Doug Fields
(HST/V32) (203)661-2873 -- (PEP/V32) -1279 -- (V32) -0450 -- (V29/MNP6) -2967
>FREE!< Unix shell accounts, Usenet access, and Internet-style mail available
From: bae@Auspex.COM (Brian Ehrmantraut)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: multiple opponents; combat vs. self-defense
Summary: aikido && combat
Date: 14 Apr 92 00:08:09 GMT

In article <1992Apr13.213202.10718@cs.brown.edu>, tac@cs.brown.edu (Ted A. Camus) writes:
> 
>   In Aikido, which arguably has a more martial tradition behind it,

	A more martial than what?

>   If any other arts seriously train 
>   against multiple opponents, I'd like to hear about them 

	San Soo kung fu.  We often "seriously train" many-on-one and 
many-on-many.

	Cooper-ryu and Ayoob-ryu firearm-jitsu practice one-on-many :-) 

>   (*) An advantage of many Aikido strikes, for ex. shomenuchi (== sword hand 
>       to forehead), is that they can be done with full force safely.

	What happens if the blow gets through - seems to me you could injure
your partner pretty easily with one of these, no?


-- 
		Brian A. Ehrmantraut

BELL:   voice:(408) 492-0900  fax: (408) 492-0909  
USnail:	Auspex Systems, 2952 Bunker Hill Lane, Santa Clara, CA 95054
From: grex@world.std.com (Mark J Urbin)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Musashi, blades, effectivness, etc
Date: 13 Apr 92 16:53:12 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA

In article <1992Apr13.152758.17052@mcs.anl.gov> sasso@flounder.phy.anl.gov (John F. Sasso) writes:
>In article <oduBvk600awU8W2EYN@andrew.cmu.edu> Meron Langsner <ml57+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>> 	While we're still on the  subject of blades, didn't Musashi win many
>>of his duels using a  bokken against a live blade ?  This would bring up
>>the argument that the effect of a technique is dependent on the 
>>combination of blade and swordsman.  A good swordsman with a lousy sword
>>is still a good swordsman, but replace the defective blade with a good
>>one and watch the performance improve.
>What I understand is that Musashi chose to use a bokken instead of his
>sword because he believed the bokken to be *better* than the
>sword in many ways.  Why?  Well, I'm not a kenjutsu practitioner
>(on a regular basis), but I know that there is a view that the
>bokken is more dangerous than the sword because a crushed bone
>if much more painful than one cleanly severed.
    From what I've read, Musashi liked bokken because they didn't break as
easily as metal blades.  I was told by a Jodo instructor that they used
bokken in training because many of the jo techniques used would bend or 
break a metal blade.  I also remember a sig quote I saw here...let's see...
got it stashed somewhere...oh ya...here it is...

"If you don't realize you can kill someone with a bokken, I don't want 
 you using one in *MY* dojo..."  - Frederick J. Lovret

-- 
Mark Urbin  grex@world.std.com     These opinions are mine.
"Justice Department studies show that armed citizens are much less likely to 
suffer losses or personal injury from thieves" -- Washington Post 1/7/92
From: jtchew@csa3.lbl.gov (JOSEPH T CHEW)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: 2 questions. Please read.
Date: 9 Apr 92 01:59:15 GMT
Article-I.D.: dog.22592
Reply-To: jtchew@csa3.lbl.gov
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory - Berkeley, CA, USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.254.198
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4

So what about those situations when you have to fight while not
at your best?  Worth thinking about, and I'm not just talking
about doing a jump spinning back kick in a street brawl to impress
the girls without having stretched. :)  Some scenarios:

* You've got the bug that's been going around and are feeling 
  kinda puny.
* Coming out of a restaurant, you're stuffed and maybe just a
  little unsteady.  Hello, Mr. Mugger...
* You're hurt -- in a cast, nursing a sprain, whatever -- and
  have to pick techniques that favor the injured part.
* The bad guy's first lucky shot sends your glasses flying and
  the world goes Impressionist on you.
* It's raining and you're standing on a steep sidewalk. 

I'm sure you can think of more.  They can be analyzed at all 
levels, from fight-avoidance strategy down to techniques.  Ideas?

--Joe
"Just another personal opinion from the People's Republic of Berkeley"
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: ejh@khonshu.colorado.edu (Edward J. Hartnett)
Subject: Re: MA, fights, and the Law.
Keywords: MA, law, book
Organization: Cooperative Institute for Research in the Environmental Sciences
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 18:42:12 GMT

Scott,
	Thanks for correcting my mistakes. I read the book years ago.
I agree that it was an excellent book. (Obviously I could use a refresh
myself!)
				Ed Hartnett
From: Kevin_Deane@mindlink.bc.ca (Kevin Deane)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Martial Arts Users on the Net
Date: 7 Apr 92 21:07:33 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

I would like to thank all of you who responded to my users of the net polling.
I will try and have the entire list by next week so if you havent sent your
name in and want to be on the list send it too me soon.
See ya.
From: sog@craycos.com (Steve Gombosi)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: What's the point? (ABNORMAL?)
Date: 16 Apr 92 18:55:27 GMT
Organization: Cray Computer Corporation

In article <EdvNrri00UoJ1Pz8sL@andrew.cmu.edu> sc1u+@andrew.cmu.edu (Stephen Chan) writes:
>dsmythe@netcom.com (Dave Smythe) writes:
>> In article <1992Apr13.163331.6956@uoft02.utoledo.edu> fax0243@uoft02.utoledo.e\
>> du writes:
>> >In article <1992Apr13.02651.2270@ms.uky.edu>, bud@ms.uky.edu (William K Glunt\
>> ) writes:> 
>> >
>> >> Dr. William K Glunt     | Are you ABNORMAL?
>> >                                    ^^^^^^^^
>> >
>> >BTW: I believe normal should be banned from the english language. It implies
>> 
>> I would prefer "ATYPICAL".  That captures the idea better for me...
>> (or maybe POSITIVELY ATYPICAL, no - make that NON-NEGATIVELY ATYPICAL;
>>  yeah, yeah, that's the ticket...)
>
>	Why not "non-weird"?
>	Hey, I'm just another perfectly non-weird person.

No you're not ;-).

Steve
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: doug@eng.umd.edu (Douglas N. Cohen)
Subject: Re: Which is most effective? Point/Edge weapons.
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 92 02:56:05 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park, College of Engineering
Summary: observation
Followup-To: doug:  < doug@eng.umd.edu > : < doug@lpf.umd.edu >
Keywords: chinese broadswords, and straightswords...

In article <Edtt8xm00iU40LKjlF@andrew.cmu.edu> sc1u+@andrew.cmu.edu (Stephen Chan) writes:

>snorthc@relay.nswc.navy.mil (Stephen Northcutt) writes:
>>       Sometimes, as the CIA knows, killing has to be done at close
>>       range.  For this purpose, a valuable weapon is the ice pick with a
>>       blood arrester attached.  The blood arrester is a cloth wrapped
>>       near the tip of the ice pick.  When the pick is shoved into the
>>       victim, the spurting blood is absorbed by the blood arrester.
>>       People who see the victim fall will probably think he has had a
>>       heart attack.  While the onlookers try to help the victim, the
>>       assassin uses this valuable ten or fifteen seconds to escape
>>       unnoticed.
>
>	Sheesh! That's almost as nasty as a sharpened bicycle spoke in
>the kidneys...
>
>Stephen Y. Chan		Programmer Analyst	CMU Telecommunications
>stevec+@cmu.edu		(412)268-5115 [me] 	(412)268-4987 [FAX]

	it's interesting, but the broadswords have the grooves for the blood
and vacuum problem relief, but none of my straightswords have them.  the only
speculation that comes to mind is that the straightsword, being a more elegant
and higher level of weapon, would be used more for the cutting than the 
stabbing aspect.
	oh well, just a random thought....
	and, as always, i am/at:

             doug:  < doug@eng.umd.edu > : < doug@lpf.umd.edu >

           -=-=-=-=-=-=-< a ghost in the machine >--=-=-=-=-=-=-
From: scheid@danzan.EBay.Sun.COM (David Scheid)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: mubobi (was Re: Bruce Flame)
Date: 15 Apr 92 18:28:54 GMT
Reply-To: scheid@danzan.EBay.Sun.COM
Distribution: na
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: danzan.ebay.sun.com


Not to be picky, but it was probably the mental nerve.
Some are very sensitive and in boxing earn the moniker of
"glass jaw".

---
Dave Scheid - All Disclaimers Apply
From: sog@craycos.com (Steve Gombosi)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Just what is a BLACK BELT? (good question)
Date: 9 Apr 92 19:43:23 GMT
Organization: Cray Computer Corporation

In article <92095.142639JXT109@psuvm.psu.edu> JXT109@psuvm.psu.edu (Jennie) writes:
>
>So, what does a black belt mean?  When my instructor hands me my black belt, he
>will be telling me and anyone I care to train with that he is certain that I
>am capable of going out on my own to teach Isshinryu to other students.  

                           ?????

Hmmmmmm...that's an awful lot to expect from a shodan IMHO. On Okinawa, they
usually don't let anyone <4th dan lead a class, much less open a dojo. 
6th dan is about the minimum for that, at least from what I've seen.
What your instructor probably *will* be telling you is that you've got
enough of a handle on the basics that you're ready to learn *Karate*.  That's
actually quite an accomplishment.

Steve

>Weapons, advanced
>techniques and applications, etc. are only taught after you have earned your
>black belt.  In addition to this, you still refine what you already know.

And, in my experience, actually start to *learn* what you thought you already
knew ;-).


Steve
From: rakoczynskij@gtephx.UUCP (Jurek Rakoczynski)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: How to choose a Martial Art discipline?
Date: 8 Apr 92 21:35:24 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: AG Communication Systems, Phoenix, Arizona

In article <1992Apr6.202737.24494@bnr.ca>, naldrett@bcarh893.bnr.ca (Steve Naldrett) writes:
text deleted
> 2. Type of art desired?
> 
>    a) Soft - redirect opponent's energy using soft, flowing motions,
>              and very little of your own energy, control opponent 
>              through leverage and balance
>       P - aikido, tai chi, aikijitsu??, kung-fu
I was also going to question ^^^^^^^^^^^ but in the context of how you
presented it, I'll agree it's soft.

text deleted
> 
> 3. Means of striking, or defeating opponent?
text deleted
> 
>    c) Weapons:
>       P - kendo, kenjutsu
>       S - kung-fu, tai chi, karate, tae-kwon do
For "S" include aikido training with jo, boken, tanto (one style - but
that may by too selective!)

text deleted

-- 
Jurek Rakoczynski, AG Communication Systems, POB 52179, Phoenix, AZ. 85072
UUCP: ncar!noao!asuvax!gtephx!rakoczynskij          Voice: +1 602 581 4867
Inet: gtephx!rakoczynskij@asuvax.eas.asu.edu          Fax: +1 602 582 7111
Inet: /DD.UN=J.RAKOCZYNSKI/O=GTE/PRMD=GTEMAIL/ADMD=TELEMAIL/C=US/@sprint.com
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: osborn@socs.uts.edu.au (Boomerang Mail)
Subject: Re: Dangerous Pole! 
Organization: University of Technology, Sydney
Date:  7 Apr 92 08:33:34 GMT

jayb@cpqhou.compaq.com (Jay Brinkmeyer) writes:

>Help! I run a TKD school that has an 8" diameter structural support 
>pole on one side of the workout floor. I can't move the pole, but I can 
>cover it with a pad (like the kind used over football goal-posts). Does 
>anyone know where I can find something like this? I imagine there must be
>a company somewhere that makes these things...


If you're the instructor, stand next to the pole!
-- 
Tom Osborn,                          " There is... 
School of Computing Sciences,                  ...no cause...
University of Technology, Sydney,                         ...for alarrrgh ".
PO Box 123 Broadway 2007,  AUSTRALIA.
From: billc@motatl.UUCP (Bill Cutts)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Bruce Lee on Classical Karate
Date: 15 Apr 92 15:31:08 GMT
Organization: Motorola Technical Systems Division, Atlanta, GA

In article <1992Apr15.041459.3066@colorado.edu>, ejh@khonshu.colorado.edu (Edward J. Hartnett) writes:
> In article <42@motatl.UUCP> billc@atl.mcd.mot.com (Bill Cutts) writes:
> >
> >In article <1992Apr11.163348.14635@colorado.edu> ejh@khonshu.colorado.edu (Edward J. Hartnett) writes:

   <previous exchanges deleted for brevity>
> 
> I like this answer too, and this is really how I think of them
> (one-steps) now. Sort of a mini-kata. I can live with that.
> However, one thing that doesn't work for me here is that, in kata,
> when and how to apply the stuff is left as an excersize for the
> student, whereas in one-step you must apply a certain tech. to a 
> certain attack, even if it wouldn't really work for you at all.
> A bad habit, IMHO.

Probably so. The problem is coming up with a way to introduce people
into looking at the kata as a self-defense lesson rather than as dance
steps within the context of a class. Sometimes people are paired up such
that the sequence of moves being practiced by the class is not
appropriate to that case. Hopefully the instructor will point out that
something isn't quite right for using this technique in this particular
situation. This doesn't mean that those two people don't continue to 
practice the technique and doesn't mean that they can't learn anything 
but maybe it isn't something they would do in a real self-defense 
situation. For example, when practicing releases techniques I have been
paired up with a very petite woman and I'm a reasonably large guy. It
was instructive for her to practice the release techniques on me and
find out what she needed to do to really make them work when her
practice partner strongly resisted. However, she was informed that if
she encountered a similar situation in real life she would probably want
to react with a stronger counter than simply a release. In other words,
if I was a stranger on the street and grabbed her, she would be better
off trying to hurt me enough during her release that she could more
easily flee. 

> 
> But thanks for pointing this out. I is helpful.
> 		Ed Hartnett

(Obviously just my $0.02)

Bill.
-- 
______________________________________________________________________
Bill Cutts                             | INET : billc@atl.mcd.mot.com |
Systems Engineer                       | UUCP : gatech!motatl!billc   |
Motorola Technical Systems Division    | #include <disclaimer.h>      |
From: karsten@nic.gac.edu (Karsten Hendrick)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Multiple attackers
Date: 16 Apr 92 22:03:17 GMT
Article-I.D.: gacvx2.1992Apr16.160319.998

In article <barry.703381379@citr.uq.oz.au>  writes:
> tac@cs.brown.edu (Ted A. Camus) writes:
> 
> >barry@citr.uq.oz.au (Barry Kitson) writes:
> >>Why Foo didn't step around U just as Nage did (while
> >>striking of course :^) isn't all that clear to me.  
> >  The difference was that Foo would be merely dodging Uke, while Nage
> >  was actively *controlling* Uke during the movement.  It is always
> >  possible to run around your opponents; Nage would want to do this too,
> >  if convenient.

Foo and Nage should have a match to the death in some deserted
back alley, while the rest of us bet on the outcome.  I'll put
100 on Foo at 2-1.

Karsten Hendrick
karsten@nic.gac.edu
karsten@lavatch.gac.edu

  
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: gumby@next02cville.wam.umd.edu (Daniel David Reynolds)
Subject: Re: If these postings are a representative sample of the arts...
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 02:15:10 GMT

In article <JON.92Apr15170812@zeus.med.utah.edu> jon@zeus.med.utah.edu  
(Jonathan Byrd) writes:
> In article <1992Apr15.170921.1@gallua.gallaudet.edu>  
CADS_COLE@GALLUA.BITNET (Kevin Cole; Washington DC) writes:
> 
> 
>    You know, for a while there, I was seriously considering studying  
martial arts. 
>    Then I started reading this newsgroup.
> 
> you're right, of course.  i hope you get a chance to read alt.sex
> before you reach puberty.
> 
> ;-> ;-> ;-> ;-> ;-> ;-> ;-> ;-> ;-> ;-> ;-> ;-> ;-> ;-> ;-> ;-> ;->
> 
> --
> jonathan byrd
> jon@apollo.med.utah.edu


you sure say alot about the attitudes and integrity of us practitioners.   
thanks

-gumby
From: psc@sei.cmu.edu (Peter Capell)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Bruce Lee on...
Date: 10 Apr 92 18:46:08 GMT
Article-I.D.: as0c.43396

>I'm not trying to hardtime you or anything, this is just curiosity.
>Which martial artists do you consider to be exemplary fighters?

Well, in his youth (and who knows, perhaps even now), I would view Bruce
Lee as lunch for my teacher (and I don't believe my teacher is the best).

I have mention Cai Hong Xiang before on the bb (he holds a title for 5-time
national championship, full-contact on the mainland).  Xie Bing Can (not a
name anyone has heard of) is yet another.  Fu Zhong Wen (quite famous) is
another, Wang Su Ping (also famous)... the list goes on.  Plus! There is
another phenomenon in China: take for example the story of Wang Su Ping, who
is famous for having taken challenges of all kinds for years, winning against
this humungous Russian fighter at one point, etc., only to be humbled
completely by some unknown from the countryside who managed to seriously
bruise his chest with what appeared to be a slight touch.  Bruce Lee doesn't
even figure alongside these people.
From: scollins@wpi.WPI.EDU (Suppasak Collins)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Bruce Lee on Classical Karate
Date: 12 Apr 92 19:56:17 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute

In article <1992Apr11.164902.15080@colorado.edu> ejh@khonshu.colorado.edu (Edward J. Hartnett) writes:
>In article <1992Apr10.220212.25047@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> Dakin Burdick <burdickd@copper.ucs.indiana.edu> writes:
>>Just to start a flame war...
>>
>>Bruce Lee was in marvelous shape, and had a very good self-defense
>>system (when he wasn't posing for the cameras) and even had a good
>>side kick, but his roundhouse kick was not that good and he really
>>could not do any "advanced" kicks.  The chinese stylist they got
>>to stand in for him on the Game of Death fight scenes that had 
>>not been filmed is a much better kicker (although he does not
>>have Bruce's charisma; but then, who does?).  
>>
>>Dakin
>>burdickd@copper.ucs.indiana.edu
>>
>
>I don't know if this is really true, or just another urban legend, but I
>once read that one of Lee's legs was almost an inch sorter than the other,
>and this caused him extreme difficulties. Any truth in that?


I thought the reason we never got to see Bruce do much 'advanced' kicks
is because he had back injuries, and that all the jumping and spinning 
caused him much pain.  

-Art
From: poore@ds9.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Bruce Lee on...
Keywords: another opinion, worth about what you paid for it .....
Date: 13 Apr 92 14:41:18 GMT
Reply-To: poore@ds9.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore)
Organization: Florida State University

In article <1992Apr12.000904.24920@eng.umd.edu> doug@eng.umd.edu (Douglas N. Cohen) writes:
>	just of the living champions, that i personally know....  Yim Tai Loi,
>Tat Mau Wong, Anthony Goh, Chen Tai Shan, Y.C.Wong,  and i could go on, and
>most of them don't particularly think too highly of bruce lee's skills, and
>none of them would consider him a master.  but then, bruce lee didn't hold

Yes, I'd like to point out some others as well. No one has mentioned
Bruce's Wing Chun sifu Yip Men, and the thought of Bruce even coming
close to him is a joke. Plenty of Yip Men's students were superior,
including Wong Shun Leung who has a pretty tough reputation. And I am
sure plenty of others in Hong Kong and Macao.

But this doesn't even scratch the surface. I think many would agree that
at that point in time (say, 50s, 60s, 70s) Taiwan was loaded with the
cream of the crop of Chinese MAist. 

People like: Hung I Hsiang, Hung I Mien, Wang Shu Chin, Cheng Man Ch'ing
Kuo Feng Chi were true masters, and many more I can't remember. And as
Peter Capell alluded to, what about the anonymous hundreds living in the
hills minding their own business that nobody ever heard of? And what
about these people's teachers? Yuan Tao, Chen Pan Ling...add them to the
list.

David Poore
poore@ds9.scri.fsu.edu

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts