From: lf01+@andrew.cmu.edu (Liz Fox)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv.soaps
Subject: Re: DOOL: In Defense of Carly
Date: 6 Nov 92 14:11:23 GMT
Organization: Office of the Dean - CFA, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA


 
[Vix not Lix]
 
Susan responds to a whole bunch of us:
 
> >>Yeah but she does get to choreograph her own pool table scenes and I
> >>lost any respect I had for the actress when SHE said that SHE liked
> >>9 1/2 Weeks and choreographed her scene just like it.  Bleah.  This was
> >>simply repulsive and degrading towards women.  Period.
> 
> What was?  9 1/2 weeks? The poolroom scene?  Or both?  Do you get offended
> by any sex that is not vanilla sex or are you just grasping for exuses
> to bash Carly.  Seems to me that there are enough real reasons without 
> having to make these kinds of stretches.
 
Taking shots at what you consider Puritannical values are we?  Because
someone is offended by a particular movie does not mean that any sex they
approve of is "vanilla sex".  *That* is a stretch.
 
Also, I think there are things we can reasonably expect to see on broadcast 
television and things that we can expect to see in a movie.  The issue for 
me is not sex but having a character who we are clearly supposed to admire 
as god's gift of a role model to womankind emulating a movie which IMHO is 
degrading to an entire sex.  If she was a more flawed character, this wouldn't
have bothered me as much.  I mean, get real.  The way this character is 
written, I wouldn't think that getting pregnant would be hard.  Wouldn't 
Immaculate Conception be an option?  
 
I'll admit it.  I hated 9 1/2 Weeks like no movie I can think of.  
Interestingly enough, the pool table scene did not remind me of 9 1/2
Weeks at all.
 
> The only thing that that sceen had in common with The_Accused was that
> the sex took place in a bar.  Other than that there is absolutely no
> comparison.  If she had a rape fantasy, why would she do a little strip
> tease for Bo?  Also, how does this scene make her a closet whore?  There
> was nothing "whorish" about that scene.
 
Well, I didn't call her a whore, but that scene did have a passing resemblance
to the version of "The Accused" that I saw.  It occured in a bar.  It occurred
after the woman was clearly tipsy (which BTW is the only thing that bothered
me about the entire scene) and while in the movie it was a pinball machine,
there was enough publicity at the time for me to tell you that the actual
event occurred on a pool table.  So yes, it reminded *me* of The Accused
in locale only.  Why did it have to resemble that movie at all??  Why
was that necessary?
 
> Carly was stressed out and so Bo took her out drinking, which apparently is
> something she likes to do.  Then, they decided to do something new and
> exciting, like have sex on the pool table.  There was no one else there.
> No one could see them.  They didn't pick each other up.  They didn't force
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
As I recall, there was a lot of complaints at the time that they didn't 
bother to close the blinds or lock the door, but that is neither here
nor there.
 
I actually have far more trouble with CC's comparison of the scene to 
9 1/2 Weeks, a movie that I thoroughly and completely despised than to
the scene itself.  As for lust/love in the afternoon in unusual places, I'm 
all for it, preferably involving  Drake.  Maybe a Greek fortress, a 
lighthouse, a jewelry store, Stefano's compound...you get my drift...
sigh... ;)  
 
Tim responds to Beth:
 
> >Chrystal(l) said she tried to pattern the scene after 9 1/2 Weeks.  Correct?
> >I haven't heard anyone say that they necesarrily had any problem with that.
> >
> >However, there was virtually no resemblance to that movie.  Instead, it
> >ended up resembling the rape scene from The Accused, which took place
> >on a pool table in the back room of a bar.
> 
> To *you* it resembled the scene in The Accused.  It made *you* [and
> granted, a few others] think of that movie.  That is *your* perception,
> and I'm sorry, but your PROBLEM.  Yes, I do think there is something
> wrong if you cannot tell the difference.  
 
Nobody said they couldn't tell the difference, but there is nothing wrong
with pointing out the resemblence.  Jodie Foster won the Academy Award
for her performance in that movie.  Kelly McGillis revealed that she
too had been raped.  There was enough publicity about this movie.  I have
just one question, they could have done this scene in an infinite number
of ways.  Why this one?  It seems kind of silly to me.
 
> Ok, The Accused was a very popular movie.  But I hesitate to say that
> it pervaded our culture enough to make the scene of a bar a necessarily
> violent place.  Come on!  Look at all the murder movies [like Friday
> the 13th] that chop people up in the woods.  Are the woods a violent
> place?  Many movie rapes have been shown in a car.  Are all cars now
> "rape scenes" first, and vehicles second?  You've taken this way too
> far.
 
In *your* opinion.  I don't agree with Beth in entirety, but she has as
much right to her opinions as you have yours.
 
> I'm sorry if this sounds like a flame.  And kudos to Susan H. for
> pointing out a lot of things I didn't address here.  Hey folks, so
> Carly is pretty bad, no one is saying she isn't right now.  But no
> single person is all bad, or all good for that matter.  Like Jeff
 
This is my point Tim and what I think you and Susan are both missing.
Someone is saying that CARLY is all good.  TPTB.  She has always been
portrayed this way.  She has no flaws.  The entire town falls at her
feet.  I am waiting anxiously to see what they do with her and Lizard.
BUT I have a nasty feeling about where this is going given that they
have already had Tom fall at his feet.  You think people are at her 
throat now.  Wait until they forget the rape.  I'm with Spud on this
one.  I think it will blow up in their faces.
 
> don't have to fabricate.  Oh, and I loved the "witch hunt" reference.
> Let's not make Salem 1992 like the Salem of 1692!!!
 
Glad you did.  I think both of you were misinterpreting what some posters
were saying.
 
More from Susan:
 
> Thanks Tim.  I also want to point out that I'm not flaming anyone 
> either.  I understand that no one likes Carly, but this group has
> reduced her to Satan's Spawn.  It seems like no matter what the woman
> does, some people on this group will find a way to make it a horrible
> thing.  Granted, she does a lot of horrible things, but that doesn't
> mean that everything she does is horrible.
 
Ditto for me.  No flames here.  I have enjoyed this thread immensely.
Although, I will say that I totally disagreed with your take on 9 1/2
Weeks.
 
> I think that the main reason that some of you find the pool room scene
> so offensive is because it involved Carly.  I'll bet that if it involved
> another couple, you wouldn't feel this way.  What if HMSs Jack and Jennifer
> boinked on a pool table?  Would you have the same reaction? I don't
> think so.  You may not like it, but you would say "poor J&J - can't
> the writers give them a good scene"  Even if you found out later that
> Melissa Reeves choreographed the scene?  You'd still forgive her.
 
Well, I'm not a J&J fan so that blows that theory out of the water.  I like
J as in Jack and I'd prefer that he'd revert to a slime bucket.
 
As for Reeves choreographing the scene, I don't know.  The one thing I
do like about her is that she refused to do a questionable scene with
J. Eddie Peck.  Sigh.  Wouldn't it be nice if Crystal stood up and said
that they shouldn't forget that Larry raped Jennifer, and commited murder
and attempted murder?  Let's wait and see if she does and I'll withhold
judgement until then.
 
> The point is, hate Carly if you want to, but I think we should be
> fair and hate her for legitimate things.
 
But I don't hate her.  She is very annoying in all her pseudo-perfection.
Again, I am disappointed that the actress used the movie 9 1/2 Weeks for a 
basis for that scene.  You liked the movie.  I found it horrific.  Possibly
it's that "vanilla sex" thing again.
 
Vix