From: heimberg@pacific.mitre.org (Jeff Heimberger)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Who cares
Date: 21 Jul 92 19:22:59 GMT
Organization: The MITRE Corporation

In article <1992Jul21.110732.41778@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> kumagic@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (Stephen R. Figgins) writes:
>Jeff, is there something deeply personal about this issue?  You seem
>really invested in it, and I don't understand why.  It seems to me
>that the responsibility for the things you listed are shared by many
>of us.  Some are more directly responsible than others.  For me,
>realizing that I played a part in all of this helped me to change my
>behavior.  
>
>If you need an ear, feel free to e-mail me. 

No, I don't have a real personal issue in it.  I just feel that the type
of behavior exhibited by activists on *both* ends of the spectrum is
far away from most people in the middle.  My point is, that I haven't
played any part in oppressing anybody in the third world, and thus, I
shouldn't be blamed for it.

On a more personal level, I'm divorced with children.  The whole thing,
while it didn't result in an ugly legal mess, *assumed* I was a bad guy
because I was the husband.  For example, my separation agreement states
categorically that I will go to jail if I don't pay child support.  It
*assumes* that I would not want to care for my children, and that's a
bad assumption for me.  I've made every payment on time and in full
($1000/month!).

In another case, my daughter had open heart surgery in FL back in 1990
(after the divorce).  I called the hospital to make some arrangements,
and said I would be down the day before the surgery (I live in VA).
The hospital said they would not let me enter the building or see my
daughter.  Why?  Because I was the ex-husband.  My ex-wife wanted me
there, thought it was my duty to be there, and thought it would be good
for my daughter, but the hospital *assumed*, with no evidence to the
contrary, mind you, that I would cause problems.  I did get in, however
-- I went down and waived insurance forms under their noses and traded
signed forms for a parents badge.  All very nicely and sweetly.  Money
talks!

These are just 2 instances where I've been cast as a bad guy contrary
to all evidence.  I believe everyone should be evaluated on an
individual basis.  To say that I'm a bad guy because I'm in a specific
group (e.g., divorced men) is wrong.

>I am not so sure that agression was bred into us.  At least not as a
>primary way of interacting with the world.  I think we were bred to
>get attention.  I think our society is largely hedonic, and agression
>is the exception of male behavior, not the rule. 
>
>What agression is that you are condoning?  I notice you don't really
>say. 

None, really.  My point is that men are men and women are women, and
that's the way evolution has made us.  Why should we seek to become a
genderless society that is unallowed to appreciate the differences?  I
don't condone nor participate in sexual harrassment, but how can I not
notice when I see what I consider to be a beautiful woman?

>> If *you*, by your *personal* lifestyle, cannot convince your children
>> that you are not an oppressor, then you're not doing enough.  But it's
>> not your children you should be concerned with here.  The people to
>> worry about are those who barely know you, but still label you as an
>> oppressor, because of the way you look.  It's a form of discrimination
>> that is just as heinous as the traditional forms, and yet people still
>> do not seem to understand.
>
>Maybe because I have not been the recipient of this descrimination
>very often.  There was the time I walked into a feminist book store,
>and everyone went kind of quiet and watched me for a while.  Later I
>learned most of the women who worked there or frequented there were
>recovering from physically abusive relationships.  Men made them
>nervous.  Who could tell if I was okay or an abusive spouse looking
>for my wife.  I wasn't asked to leave.  I was just watched closely.
>
>Even I treat men with more caution than I do women.  I don't know how
>heinous this discrimination is, I just don't trust men very much.  In
>general I expect white men to be oblivious to the pain and suffering
>they cause, the fear they generate.  They just don't seem to see it.
>So I don't trust them.  

But, again, isn't this judging the book by it's cover?

Regards,

Jeff H...
Newsgroups: alt.pagan