HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hillel@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (hillel.e.markowitz)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Vegetarianism & Halacha (was Re: Following Sedar tradition)
Date: 8 Apr 92 14:45:30 GMT
Organization: AT&T Migration Systems

In article <9204070819.aa08985@israel.nysernet.org> warren@nysernet.org writes:
>In <1992Apr6.211824.3101@cbfsb.cb.att.com> hillel@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (hillel.e.markowitz) writes:
>
>> The modern idea of "animals have rights too" (equating them to human
>> beings) is IMHO avodas zarah and is not the same as avoiding tzaar
>> baalei chaim
>
>IMHO, while I do not hold the view that animals have rights equal to
>those of humans, I don't see how that position could be avoda zara
>unless one said "animals have rights because idol X said so".
>
>Beliefs, even if they contradict the Torah, are not AZ unless they
>involve other gods.  Of course beliefs that contradict the Torah are
>to be avoided, but we still should keep our averot straight.
>-- 
> |warren@         But the tzitzit maker
>/ nysernet.org    is not worried at all.

I am using the term Avodas Zoro here to mean raising any "ism" to
the status of worship.  Thus we have people who actually are
treating animals as on the same level with the same "neshama" as
human beings.  This is more of a "pantheistic" type of religion
rather than explicitly saying I worship baal or astarte or "Nature"
who commanded me to be a vegetarian.  The modern avodas zoro is
different from that in the past.  Indeed the sophisticated pagans
may have used their idols as symbols rather than believing that
this statue is actually a "god" and the modern day pagans are even
more so.

___________________________________________________________________
| Hillel Markowitz        |        Im ain ani li mi li             |
| H_Markowitz@att.com     |        Veahavta Leraiecha Kamocha      |
|_________________________|________________________________________|
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (a.j.s. nusbacher)
Subject: Re: Lubavitcher Rebbe's 90th birthday
Organization: Ha Universita shel Toronto 
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 16:24:33 GMT

In article <1992Apr16.051031.19993@cs.uoregon.edu> pdm@idiotix.cs.uoregon.edu (peter d. mark) writes:

>did anyone catch the NPR story (monday 4/13) that described how many 
>followers of rabbi scheerson were convinced not only that he IS the
>messiah but that he would ANNOUNCE that he was, in fact, the messiah
>on his birthday?  it mentioned, among other factors, that 90 held 
>special numerological significance.  the story described how many 
>children were utterly convinced that their leader was/is the messiah, 
>and raised the question of how these children might become disillusioned 
>when they discovered how they had been deceived. 

A friend of mine phoned her Chabadnik hosts for the Purim seudah, and the
daughter of the family answered the phone, "Moshiach is here, hello?".

I think the Chabadnicks have been setting themselves up for this sort of thing.
By making themselves more messianic than the rest of normative Judaism at the
same time as they continued the veneration of the rebbe common to most Hasidic
sects; they have made this sort of thing believable.  Unfortunately, it stands
to make them the laughingstock of religious Jews.

Ordinarily, I'd say go ahead and believe what you want.  Two things bother me
most here:  1.  The Christianised idea of the Moshiach--I think the Rambam would
have trouble with the idea of the Lubavitcher Rebbe as Moshiach.  2.  The fact
that the Rebbe himself might not even know about this--has the news gotten
past his handlers?
_____________________________________________________________________________
        Aryk Nusbacher                .. .. Celebrating the 20th Anniversary    
                                      ||_||  of Women Members of Hart House 
          Hart House                  | I |     || ||          || ||  ..    ..
Informal Education in the University  |   |   . ||_||__________||_||  || ___||
                                      | O |___|_|__________________|__| /  \ |
    aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca         |   |       o oo  oo  oo   o      |__| |
                                      |_A_|_______A_oo  oo  oo   A__^^^______|
_____________________________________________________`------------____________


Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: gertler@ptms_dev.sbi.com (Don Gertler)
Subject: Re: On Torah and Science
Reply-To: <gertler@ptms_dev.sbi.com (Don Gertler)>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: 6 Apr 92 15:28:09 GMT


 VSLARRY@weizmann.weizmann.ac.il (Larry Israel) writes:
> There was a refutation of the claim that the Jewish Calendar is drifting
> in the solar year at the rate of one day per 220 years. This was countered
> by a statement that it is not so; that the drift is only about 6 2/3 minutes
> per year. Could some mathematician explain the difference to me?

There are 24 * 60 = 1440 min in a day.  Thus

6.67 min-drift/yr = 6.67/1440 = 0.004632 day-drift/yr

Inverting yields:

1/0.004632 = 215.89 yr/drift-day

No difference.
From: janiceg@marvin.Eng.Sun.COM (Janice Gelb)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Partial Passover Product List
Date: 8 Apr 92 21:07:23 GMT
Reply-To: janiceg@marvin.Eng.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems
NNTP-Posting-Host: marvin

In article 15880@bunny.GTE.COM, sg04@ploni.gte.com (Yechezkal Shimon Gutfreund) writes:
>
>BTW: Chabad Minhag is:
>
>No Milchigs (except for children)

A local store here is advertising "Cholov Yisrael kosher l'Pesach" stuff.  
I thought Cholov Yisrael was acceptable to Chabad, so I'm confused here.


********************************************************************************
Janice Gelb                  | (415) 336-7075     
janiceg@marvin.eng.sun.com   | "A silly message but mine own" (not Sun's!) 
********************************************************************************
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: jgoldber@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Joel Goldberg)
Subject: Re: judaism and environmentalism
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 01:40:57 GMT

In article <1992Apr11.031611.15641@cmcl2.nyu.edu> haneins@acf3.nyu.edu (Shirley Hanein) writes:
>hi,
>
>i'm in the environmental ed program at nyu. one of the profs in the
>department teaches a course called *ideas of nature*. he is looking for
>information on how judaism deals with the environment.

   There is a group called Shomrei Adama (guardians of the earth)
   who have a sourcebook. One thing they quote is a midrash on
   Kohelet (Ecclesiastes):
      "When God created the first human beings, God led them around the
      Garden of Eden and said: `Look at my works! See how beautiful they
      are---how excellent! For your sake Icreated them all.
      `See to it that you do not spoil and destroy my world, for if you
      do, there will be no one else to repair it.' "
       
  Apparently, there was a conference on Judaism and the environment in
  Washington last month. Unfortunately, my source, the Canadian Jewish
  News, doesn't give any of the useful details.
From: boaz@concerto.lcs.mit.edu (Boaz Ben-Zvi)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Chad Gadya
Date: 14 Apr 92 22:36:11 GMT
Reply-To: boaz@lcs.mit.edu
Organization: Laboratory for Computer Science, MIT

In article <1992Apr14.163552.28439@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca>, aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (a.j.s. nusbacher) writes:
|> On the subject of Chad Gadya:
|> 
|> Is the Aramaic verb, "dizban" or "d'zavin"?

The root ZBN is common to many semitic languages. In Hebrew, ZABAN is a guy
who sells goods, in Arabic, ZABUN is the customer. In Arameic, ZABIN is the
past tense for of "to buy":
     DE-ZABIN == that (father) bought

-- Boaz

===============================================================================
  _              _            __         __ ___  _ _   __ ___    ____      ___
 /_) _  _  __   /_) _   __ __ _/    o     |   |   \| __ |   |     /    \ |   |
/__)(_)(_|__/  /__)(_'_/ /   /__\/_(        __|_ __\    | __|_     \  __\| __|_
          __)                                           |                      
===============================================================================
 Boaz Ben-Zvi <boaz@lcs.mit.edu>     MIT Addr: NE43-526   Tel: (617) 253-6212 
===============================================================================
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: pigeon@leland.Stanford.EDU (Stuart Schulman)
Subject: Re: Partial Passover Product List
Keywords: Marshmallows
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 92 03:51:31 GMT

To the original poster of the marshmallow corn-syrup alert, many thanks.

We checked a bag of marshmallows we purchased recently at Mollie Stone's in 
Palo Alto...BTW, not coconut-covered.

"Sweet Shop" Marshmallows, from Kidd and Co., Ligonier, Indiana.

Here is the ingredient list:  ***Corn Syrup***, sugar, water, ***corn starch**,
Kosher Beef Gelatin, artificial flavoring.

Aiyee!  Not only does it have Corn Syrup, but the beef gelatin MAY (depending
on your personal interpretation of whether gelatin becomes a new substance)
be unfit for topping hot cocoa after pesach!

For your further amusement and/or horror, I will mention that the back of
the package has a fudge recipe which (naturally) contains milk.

There is no hechsher, but the package states "Packed under the supervision
of Rabbi..."  It is an Askenazic-sounding name.

When I was growing up (in NY area), we would always get a brand called
cz-ons (if I recall).  It was made of gelatin from the same stuff Kojel
uses...probably kelp.

I will attempt to contact Mollie Stone's and/or the manufacturer.  If you
are as concerned, you might wish to do the same.

Susan Waters
Stuart Schulman
pigeon@leland.stanford.edu
 


Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: pdm@sisters.cs.uoregon.edu (peter d. mark)
Subject: Re: judaism and environmentalism
Organization: /local/lib/rn/organization
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 06:23:12 GMT

In article <1992Apr11.031611.15641@cmcl2.nyu.edu> haneins@acf3.nyu.edu 
	(Shirley Hanein) writes:
>
>i'm in the environmental ed program at nyu. one of the profs in the
>department teaches a course called *ideas of nature*. he is looking for
>information on how judaism deals with the environment.
>
>can anyone help? 

2 or 3 of years ago around rosh hashanah, the jewish theological
seminary took out a full page ad in the new york times that made
quite an impact visually.  

on the left side of the page were a series of quotes from 
various parts of the bible--mostly from genesis and a few of 
the psalms--each of which mentioned some part of the natural
world.

opposite each quote, on the right side of the page, appeared
some environmental abuse or catastrophe that corresponded to
the quote on the left hand side.  for example, if the quote
on the left was something about god spreading out the firmament,
on the right hand side appeared "hole in the ozone layer."
opposite a passage about the rich variety of the animal kingdom
appeared the phrase "destruction of entire species."  opposite 
a quote that read "i (god) am the owner of the land, you are my 
tenants" (or something to that effect) appeared "toxic waste dumps."
and so forth.

below the paired lists appeared in big print : "WHAT ARE WE DOING?"

the whole ad really was quite striking and effective.  i saved it,
and if you would like, i can let you know the date it appeared.

peter
pdm@cs.uoregon.edu

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: alper@sushi.psych.nwu.edu (Theodore M. Alper)
Subject: Re: Lyrics request: Papirosn
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 22:40:38 GMT

In <14254@pitt.UUCP> dsdst3@icarus.lis.pitt.edu (David S Dubin) writes:


>  If anyone can point me to a source for the lyrics to a song called
>"Papirosn," (or can post them) I'd thank that person.


Well, the book "Pearls of Yiddish Song" (Compiled by Eleanor and Joseph
Mlotek, published by Workmen's Circle (Arbeiter Ring) and available
in their catalog) has it, in yiddish, transliteration, and translation.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Subject: Re: Valid Interpretation Flamefest (sigh!)
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway
Date: 8 Apr 92 07:58:00 GMT

In <FAIGIN.92Apr6202343@soldan.aero.org> faigin@aero.org (Daniel P. Faigin) writes:

> Orthodox practices allows the child of a Jewish mother to be treated
> as Jewish, regardless of the extend of practice of the child or the
> belief of the child.  Reform requires that the child of *any* mixed
> marriage, I repeat ANY mixed marriage, to be only under the
> PRESUMPTION of being Jewish.

I've wondered, and perhaps this is a good time to do it out loud, why
it's called patrilineal descent.  To my mind PD would be to say that
the child is Jewish if and only if the father is, just as MD means the
child is Jewish IFF the mother is.   What R does is neither, it
defines a new status, perhaps called "presumption of being Jewish" and
places children who have one Jewish parent in this group.  I don't
know just what it should be called, but perhaps it ought to have the
word egalitarian in the name?

Please not that I am not debating the wisdom of the policy (but I'm
sure someone else will :-( ) just asking why it's called what it is.
-- 
/|/-\/-\          The entire world		Jerusalem
 |__/__/_/        is a very strange hamantaschen
 |warren@         But the tzitzit maker
/ nysernet.org    is not worried at all.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: MASH@weizmann.weizmann.ac.il (Michael Shimshoni)
Subject: On Kitniyot for Ashkenazim
Organization: Weizmann Institute of Science, Israel
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 92 11:29:12 +0300

In: <1992Apr16.161902.2051@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>
saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal) states:

>In article <9204151341.AA10341@robocop.NYU.EDU>, baker@ROBOCOP.NYU.EDU (Jonath
>
>> The explanation I have heard about this is that kitniot are things which can
>> piled like "Official Jewish" grains (oats, wheat, rye, barley, spelt).  This
>> includes corn, rice, peanuts, etc.  Why this includes string beans, I don't
>> know.  Why it doesn't include potatoes, which can be processed and used
>> much like flour for baking (most Passover cakes use potato starch), I don't
>> know.  My guess is that potatoes can't be piled like grain, they are piled
>> like rocks.8)
>>
>> Sephardim (those Jews not of Eastern European origin) do not
>> follow kitniot regulations, or at least follow a different, less restrictive
>
>I believe potatoes are allowed as a staple, for the Ashkenazim, that
>could not be forbidden.  Similarly, rice was allowed for Sephardim; it
>is a staple in those societies.  Our Rabbis tried very hard to avoid
>imposing rules people could not follow.  This at the same time as being
>careful/strict about following Halachah.

I cannot accept Sam's belief (not for the first time ;-) ).  Ashkenazi
Rabbis did  forbid "kitniyot"  BEFORE potatoes  were available  to the
Ashkenazi Jews, thus leaving them with a situation hard to follow.

It is true that sometimes they  are more lenient, like allowing eating
of  rice in  Palestine (to  the Ashkenazim)  during the  food shortage
period of WWII.

Hag Sameah,

Michael Shimshoni
From: hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Correction: Chalav Yisrael Post
Date: 14 Apr 92 18:54:44 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Statistics Department

In article <IduVuze00WBLQ8mRE3@andrew.cmu.edu> sb5i+@andrew.cmu.edu (Sandy Bodzin) writes:
>Numerous people have asserted that it is possible, albeit unlikely, that
>some grain would end up in the milk as the cows are fed while being
>milked.  Still, as milk is not water, wouldn't milk fall into the
>category of "mei peirot" as far as chametz is concerned?  Thus, even if
>grain and milk mixed, the result would not be true chametz and the issur
>is only a lav (poskim differ about the seriousness of the lav - this is
>the same lav applied to egg matzot), and not karet.  It just seems
>excessive to me to rule out all dairy products on the very remote chance
>that one may be over on a lav. 

I believe that this is correct, according to the Talmud.  I recall that
Tractate P'sakhim states that grain cannot become leavened by milk or
fruit juice unless some water is used.  BTW, it also states that 
kernels of grain which do not touch each other in water during the
cooking process are unleavened, and usable on Pesach.  Parched corn
(roasted grain) is specifically mentioned as something to be given
to children to munch on while waiting for the Seder meal.

On scientific grounds, I do not agree completely with these.  I would 
consider mixing flour with these liquids as leavenable, but whole grains
as non-leavenable under any circumstances.  The tractate does not give
the basis for this, other than believing that leavening was caused by
allowing the process to take place in suitable grains mixed with water,
but for whole grains, it could only take place if grains stuck together
at least temporarily.
-- 
Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399
Phone: (317)494-6054
hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Internet, bitnet)  
{purdue,pur-ee}!pop.stat!hrubin(UUCP)
From: nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Nabil Idriss)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Abraham
Date: 16 Apr 92 14:44:32 GMT
Article-I.D.: ncrcae.1992Apr16.144433.7848
Organization: NCR E&M Columbia SC.

>
>>Nabil
>
>This has been discussed before.  Syria is one of the few countries
>that won't let its Jews leave. (The Soviet Union and Ehtiopia now do)
>They are holding them hostage so they can trade them for the Golan.  
>Argument #2 just doesn't work. The Jews who have left Syria have gone 
>to New York, and many want to go there.  Syria just won't let them
>go anywhere.    
>
>The Palestininans and the Jews of Syria are separate issue.  
>Making them the same issue essentially makes the Syrian Jews hostages
>to the government of Syria.  This is morally indefensible, and the
>reasons that pro-Syrian people have given for this are just nonsense.
>The Syrian Jews are not Israelis, they are not soldiers, and they
>are not prisioners of war.
>
>The right to leave a country is guaranteed by the UN declaration of 
>human rights, and other international treaties and organizations.
>
>Syria's policy is simply indefensible.
>
>

Leon

I agree that the Syrian Jews and the Palestinian problem are two seperate
issues. I also agree that it is wrong to hold anybody against his/her will.
But there is also a conflict between Syria and Israel and I think that although
the Syrian government position is immoral, the Israeli government has its 
share of immoral acts.

Although peace still seem far away, but who knows, if it is accomplished,
I don't see any reason for the Syrian government to keep holding the Syrian
Jews. 

I envision that when peace is accomplished, neither the Syrian Jews will leave
Syria, nor many Palestinians want to leave the countries they currently reside
in. It is only a psychological feeling right now.

Nabil
From: monnik@zodiac.rutgers.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: fishfood
Date: 9 Apr 92 02:13:05 GMT
Organization: Rutgers University Computing Services

does anyone know fishfood that is kasher lepesach?
From: friedenb@egr.msu.edu (Gedaliah Friedenberg)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Ba'al Teshuva (who is Orthodox?)
Date: 10 Apr 92 19:52:56 GMT
Reply-To: friedenb@egr.msu.edu (Gedaliah Friedenberg)
Organization: College of Engineering, Michigan State University



I saw recently in a post (sorry that I don't have it to quote) criteria to be Orthodox.
The creator of this list cited such characteristics as keeping Kosher, Shabbos, wearing
a kippah and tzistzis, davening Shacaris, Mincha and Maariv daily, etc..

What about ba`alei teshuva?  Can one who is taking the "one step at a time" method of
teshuva (endorsed by many Rabbis) call him/herself Orthodox.  I was told that it is
emotionally and spiritually unhealthy to make teshuva overnight, and therefore
should be one on a two year plan (from non-observant to Orthodox, shorter if one starts 
from a more observant level).  

I hope that we all can agree that even though a Ba'al Teshuva may not wear his Kippa
in public, wear only skirts, or is working on other aspects of teshuva, that he/she
can still be considered a member of the Orthodox community.

Shabbat Shalom,

Gedaliah 



G. Friedenberg
Department of Mechanical Engineering
Michigan State University
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Nabil Idriss)
Subject: Re: talks.politics.mideast
Organization: NCR E&M Columbia SC.
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 92 13:26:14 GMT

In article <1992Apr12.002009.24291@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> ai726@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Alice Schubach) writes:
>
>>For your own information,if you were sleeping and just woke up, almost
>>most of the arabs recognized Israel, otherwise they would not be at 
>>the Peace Conference. It is Shamir's turn to get serious about it
>>and get it moving.
>>
>For YOUR own information, the only Arab country that has recognized
>Israel is Egypt. That was during the administration of President Jimmy
>Carter, when Sadat took the daring step of going to Jerusalem to make
>peace. The Arabs are at the peace conference, but they definitely have
>not recognized Israel. This is simply a fact and is not a matter of dispute.
>
>Alice Schubach


Well, I know the Palestinians did few years ago through Arafat. The other
arab countries recognized her symbolically by setting at the peace table. You
know that there are certain issues to be resolved, such as the future of the 
occupied territories, before a final settlement is made.

Nabil
Organization: Masters student, Industrial Administration, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Date: Tue,  7 Apr 1992 22:40:20 -0400 
From: Sandy Bodzin <sb5i+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Vegetarianism & Halacha (was Re: Following Sedar tradition)
	<1992Apr7.142506.6302@udel.edu>
Distribution: na

Mark Carroll writes:

>My Rabbi, who is _not_ a vegetarian, answered that question this year
>on Rosh Hashanah, in a discussion/study session between the afternoon
>and evening services.
> 
>His answer was that God would prefer that we not kill animals to eat,
>because the act of killing an animal is likely to lead to many
>horrible practices (ie, the practice of drinking the blood of an
>animal you've just killed, eating raw flesh, etc., which have been
>common practices in many cultures.). But, it can be difficult or even
>impossible to maintain your health without eating meat. So, God
>limited the creatures we could eat, and limited the ways in which we
>can eat them, so that if we had to eat meat, we would do so in ways
>which would prevent us from adopting the barbaric practices of the
>societies around us.

This sounds pretty weak to me.  If God would prefer we didn't eat meat
then why create people with a nutritional need that can't be fulfilled
without meat?  Additionally, if I recall, Adam and Chava were
vegetarians in Gan Eden.  How did they survive if health could not be
maintained without meat?  

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish