HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jkenton@world.std.com (Jeff Kenton)
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Subject: Re: US Open
Date: 12 Aug 92 15:29:45 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Kenton Systems Corporation, Weston MA

In article <1992Aug12.143740.11394@cs.ucf.edu> jdd@engr.ucf.edu (Joseph Dumas) writes:
>
>--->  Joe is jdd@engr.ucf.edu (Joseph Dumas):  "Cats are snooty and wouldn't
>fetch a stick on a bet.  They also scratch.  I dislike cats....  I like dogs
>because they forgive easily...and will settle for thirty seconds of care and
>attention if that is all you have to spare."  --Lewis Grizzard


"I hate dogs because dogs are too much like people, and
people are no damn good." --original source forgotten


-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
=			Jeff Kenton	(617) 894-4508			=
=			    jkenton@world.std.com			=
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
From: richardr@sco.COM (Richard Robinson)
Subject: Re: Chess Program?
Organization: The Santa Cruz Operation, Inc.
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 17:49:35 GMT


In article <1992Aug18.132921.3281@ucsvc.ucs.unimelb.edu.au> u855ops12@ucsvc.ucs.unimelb.edu.au (Patrick Blanchard) writes:
>
>
>   I am looking for a chess program (IBM PC) that not only plays a fairly
>strong game (not that I'm a strong player - just an optimist) but is also
>useful for analysing old games to see where I went wrong, etc.. Do the programs
>that get a regular mention in this newsgroup do this? (i.e. Zarkov, Mchess,
>Knightstalker, etc.)
>
>   Thanks in advance.
>
>Patrick Blanchard,
>Information Technology Services,
>University of Melbourne,
>Melbourne, Australia.

I have found the combination of ChessBase 4.0 and Knight Stalker to be a very
interesting one.  I can play through any game in my database and have Knight
Stalker analyzing it, and showing its analysis, the whole time.
I have played through my games to see if I missed any one or two movers.  Also
I played through a game of Capabalanca's recently.  I don't remember which
one off hand.  But, near the end of the game, Knight Stalker declared
Capa's advantage to be 10+ (a queen or more) upon playing a certain move.
Capa did not play that move and Stalker's evaluation immediately dropped
back to the 1.0 -2.0 range.  Apparently, Capa missed a more forceful win
even though thge method chosen may have been perfectly clear.

On the other hand, analyzing one of my games, Knight Stalker refused to
find a line where giving up a pawn on the seventh led to a forced mate in
about three.  I think it's search algorithm saw the queen sacrifice and
no immediate mate and turned to other paths.  As soon as I actually 
sacrificed the pawn, Knight Stalker pumped my evaluation up to about
Mate in 3, this was before my opponent's reply had been played.

richard
uunet!sco!richardr

-- 
	- - -
	Q. According to a March 18, 1992, New York Times article sent to you
by alert reader Melanie Allen, what were Russian anarchists chanting at
a Moscow street demonstration?
	A. They were chanting: ``Eat Gaseous Worms.'' The Times states:
``Nobody figured out what this was supposed to mean, but the slogan
stirred considerable emotion.''
	Q. ``Gaseous Worms'' would be a good name for a rock band.
From: jph@hardy.u.washington.edu (Jeff Hanson)
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Subject: Re: Tournament design
Date: 20 Aug 92 23:35:49 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Aug20.233549.24831
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle


	Here's a suggestion for a faily simple modification of the Swiss
pairing system that lowers the chance of multiple perfect scores &
increases the chance that a player will play people rated close to him.
It is a refinement of the system that divides the players into 2 groups
for the first few rounds.

	Say the tournament has 5 rounds.  Divide the players into
5 equal groups by rating.  Assign players in the first group 2 pairing
points; the second group 1 1/2 pairing points; . . . ; & the last group
0 pairing points.  Pair the players the normal Swiss system
way using pairing points plus tournament score instead of just their
tournament score.  After each round subtract 1/2 pairing point from
each player who has more than 0 pairing points.  In the last round
every player will have 0 extra pairing points.

	A possible refinement:  use only 4 groups in a 5 round
tournament so that there are no extra pairing points in the last
two rounds.  This would decrease the chance of a 2nd group expert
sneaking up to win the tournament.

	'Twould be grand if someone would Monte Carlo the different
possibilities and compare their merits.
From: ron@osf.org (Ron Birnbaum)
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Subject: Re: Fischer-Spassky and rating points
Date: 18 Aug 92 15:58:50 GMT
Article-I.D.: osf.1992Aug18.155850.19175
Organization: Open Software Foundation

------------------

In article <92230.165832U55342@uicvm.uic.edu>, <U55342@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:
|> ... uh, .... er, .... do you all think that Fiscer will lose rating points
|> in Fischer - Spassky II like he did when they played in 1972 ?! If Fischer
|> wants to avoid this, he's gonna have to make fewer draws!
|> 
|>                                                           See Ya!
|>                                                            Bert

  I guarantee you that Fischer will not lose any rating points, and neither will
  Spassky. This isn't a FIDE sacntioned match, so no rating points will be
  exchanged.

-Ron
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
From: J.M.Ross@man0507.wins.icl.co.uk (J.M.Ross)
X400-Received: by mta eros.uknet.ac.uk in /PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD=GOLD 400/C=GB/;
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Content-Identifier: 474
Subject: Re: Shogi
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 11:07:42 +0000

Does anyone know of a Shogi or Chinese Chess playing program
running on a PC or Atari ST?

James M. Ross
(j.m.ross@man0507.wins.icl.co.uk)

Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
From: philip@spr.usask.ca (Tim Philip)
Subject: Tal Games
Organization: University of Saskatchewan, Saskatoon, Canada
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 15:55:43 GMT



	Sorry to bring up a dead subject, but does anybody remember
	that gigantic file of Tal games??

	Does anybody still have that numbering program around somewhere?
	I seem to have misplaced it (OOPS!! :-)).


	Thanks,
	Tim.
From: dweddin@uoft02.utoledo.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Subject: Re: Bobby teaches but did he write?
Date: 17 Aug 92 20:18:47 EST
Organization: University of Toledo, Computer Services

> 
>>In previous posts people have often recommended "Bobby Fischer teaches 
>>chess," as an outstanding book. I'm curious what people know about this 
>>book. Did Bobby write it himself? Is it an "as told to" book? Or did he 
>>just give his name to it. I'd like to know his level of involvement in the 
>>project.
> 
>>rlwilliams@gallua
> 
> This was my first chess book! Its pretty old, and I even think out of 
> print (I've been keeping an eye out for it ever since I lost it). It was an 
> excellent book, probably because it was in the form of quick problems rather 
> than books (also excellent) but require the extra effort of taking out a 
> chess board. 
> 
> I'm pretty sure Bobby "wrote" the book himself (inverted commas because 
> there's not much writing - almost zero, in fact - (and consequently as much 
> reading) there is just one position per page and the solution on the next 
> page.
> 
>

actually, i think that bobby wrote it because i can't see him using
a ghost writer...doesn't sound like bobby.

i actually hated the book and consider it next to worthless as a chess
teacher, but ironically i consider the best chess book i've ever had
and learned the most from is

Bobby's 60 Memorable Games...god, that books great.

if you want bobby teaches chess, then you can most likely pick it up
at a library and then conveniently "lose" it and pay the 5 bucks.

i've seen it at most libraries so this shouldn't be a problem.
 
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
From: chris@rumpol.ucs.uoknor.edu ()
Subject: Re: Bobby teaches but did he write?
Reply-To: chris
Organization: University of Oklahoma Cumputing Services
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 17:03:54 GMT

|>From: dweddin@uoft02.utoledo.edu
|>Organization: University of Toledo, Computer Services
|>>
|>>>In previous posts people have often recommended "Bobby Fischer teaches 
|>>>chess," as an outstanding book. I'm curious what people know about this 
|>>>book. Did Bobby write it himself? Is it an "as told to" book? Or did he 
|>>>just give his name to it. I'd like to know his level of involvement in the 
|>>>project.
|>> 
|>>>rlwilliams@gallua
|>> 
|>> This was my first chess book! Its pretty old, and I even think out of 
|>> print (I've been keeping an eye out for it ever since I lost it). It
|>was an 
|>> excellent book, probably because it was in the form of quick
|>problems rather 
|>> than books (also excellent) but require the extra effort of taking
|>out a 
|>> chess board. 
|>> 
|>> I'm pretty sure Bobby "wrote" the book himself (inverted commas
|>because 
|>> there's not much writing - almost zero, in fact - (and consequently
|>as much 
|>> reading) there is just one position per page and the solution on the
|>next 
|>> page.
|>> 
|>>
|>
|>actually, i think that bobby wrote it because i can't see him using
|>a ghost writer...doesn't sound like bobby.
|>
|>i actually hated the book and consider it next to worthless as a
|>chess
|>teacher, but ironically i consider the best chess book i've ever had
|>and learned the most from is
|>
|>Bobby's 60 Memorable Games...god, that books great.
|>
|>if you want bobby teaches chess, then you can most likely pick it up
|>at a library and then conveniently "lose" it and pay the 5 bucks.
|>
|>i've seen it at most libraries so this shouldn't be a problem.
|> 
|>

Ohmigosh...  so you are one of the people at least SUPPORTING the pillaging of
our public (and private) libraries?  This kind of behavior upsets me
alittle, not
just because it would seem to be the activity of someone who's moral
character
might be called into doubt, but also because I would like to choke the
living *&#$
out of those who have denuded our local libraries here of nearly all
books on chess.

Sigh.  This really makes me mad.  I hope most people really don't
seriously think of
doing things like this.   

end-of-flame.

FYI, 'Bobby Fischer Teaches Chess' has apparently been reprinted recently, as I
saw copies of it not long ago (3-4 months) in B. Dalton's.   I like it,
it teaches
very basic 'killer' tactics for back-rank mates and such.  It gives a
few good tactical
ideas for beginners, and most of all, you don't need to know any
notation.  It is
all pictorially based.  You don't even need a board, which is another
good thing
for someone trying to develop some visualization skill.  IMHO it is a
great book
for someone who is an absolute beginner, or at least someone who has
never read 
a book on chess.  It does not intimidate at all!

Chris Petroff
chris@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu
From: dguerrer@lyra.cel.scg.hac.com (Daniel Guerrero)
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Subject: Re: Girls
Date: 13 Aug 92 04:47:01 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Hughes Aircraft Colorado Engineering Labs

>Another "gift type book" of the simple variety is "the best short games of 
>chess." or maybe the 1,000 best short games of chess. I forget who wrote it 
>but browse around. it's in paper back.  all of the games are 20 moves or 
>less and there's a little introduction and chess lore with each one of 
>them.  A fun book, not too taxing if she hasn't gotten the fever. 
>
>rlwilliams@gallua

"The 1000 Best Short Games of Chess" by Irving Chernev.  Fireside
  Chess Library, 1987.  ISBN 0-671-53801-2.

Good, interesting book. 


--
============================================================================
Dan Guerrero : dguerrer@rigel.hac.com     |  All science is either physics
Hughes Aircraft Colorado Engineering      |  or stamp collecting.
   Laboratory				  |     - Ernest Rutherford
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
From: jhc@iris.uucp (James H. Coombs)
Subject: Re: ELO and Swiss System Software
Reply-To: jhc@iris.brown.edu.UUCP (James H. Coombs)
Organization: IRIS - Brown University
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 16:26:26 GMT

In article <1451600026@igc.apc.org> CAPSA <capsa@igc.apc.org> writes:

>rate chess players (ELO, rather than USCF)

What is the difference?  Elo is a person; of that I am sure.  USCF uses
a system that Elo developed? helped develop?  Certainly, Elo designed
the foundation of the system that USCF uses.  FIDE also uses an Elo
system.

I have been told that people use NNNN elo not for USCF but for other
ratings systems/pools, probably FIDE, and that it would be misleading
to refer to NNNN USCF as NNNN elo.

Elo makes no such distinction in his book, but then Elo strives to
develop a useful and accurate rating system, not to dictate linguistic
conventions.

But what would the difference be between two programs that compute
ratings: one FIDE/elo and one USCF/elo?  Did Bibuld mean FIDE/elo?

Here is my guess.  The basic algorithms are the same for FIDE and
USCF.  The two organizations use different Ks.  Also, USCF has at times
had feedback and bonus points to combat the deflationary tendency of
the system, and I have not heard of any such efforts by FIDE.  (How DO
they control deflation?)

I have read Elo's book, and I have implemented a program that computes
performance and cumulative ratings according to both the linear
approximation and the logistic formulas.  Still, I cannot quite make
sense of Bibuld's question.  Part of the problem, I think, is that FIDE
has a rating pool, and USCF has a rating pool.  One could not start a
separate rating pool of USCF ratings.  One could use the same
algorithms, perhaps, but they would still not be USCF ratings.

Perhaps it would help if Bibuld were to say exactly what he wants the
program for.  If it is to rate a pool of chess players, then the minor
USCF/FIDE difference in K should be decided in favor of USCF to
accommodate the greater instability of us amateur players.  Now that
USCF has dropped feedback/bonus points, I don't know of any other
significant differences (apart from such detritus as rating floors).

--Jim
From: rjh@allegra.att.com (Robert Holt)
Subject: Re: *Spoiler* Re: 1.f3, 4.Kh4 puzzle
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories, Murray Hill, NJ
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 01:31:41 GMT

In article <1992Aug10.105117.14585@husc3.harvard.edu> elkies@ramanujan.harvard.edu (Noam Elkies) writes:
>
>Which reminds me: the standard UNIX chess program (I'm told it's essentially
>SARGON, but I don't know this for a fact) plays so miserably that I've taken
>some extreme measures trying to get an interesting game.  Guess what it
>played as Black after 1.e3!? e5 2.Ke2?! Nc6 3.Kf3? Qf6+ 4.Ke4??  If you
>have the usual implementation of /usr/games/chesstool you can reproduce
>this experiment, because it will always play the same moves against this
>"opening".

All right, I tried a 1988 version of /usr/games/chesstool and it
found 4. ... Qe5+ ! , leading to a forced mate in 3 after
5. Kxe5 d5+ 6. Kf5 Be7+ 7. Kg5 g6++ or 5. Kd5 e4+ 6. Kc4 Qc5+
7. Kb3 Qb4++ .
-- 
+-----------------------+
|  Bob Holt             |
|  rjh@allegra.att.com  |
+-----------------------+
From: iscjcw@uccvma.ucop.edu (Jerry Wilcox)
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Subject: Re: US Open
Date: 12 Aug 1992 15:55:45 GMT
Organization: University of California
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: ajax.ucop.edu

In article <SCHILLER.92Aug11213538@tira.uchicago.edu>
schiller@tira.uchicago.edu (Eric Schiller) writes:
> {other stuff deleted}
>
>Buit I suspect that the complainants are a small but vocal
>minority. The odds of playing against a computer in a
>mid-size events are much lower than that of being paired
>with a real asshole. There are some fates worse than
>computers.
>
>Eric Schiller
>

Well said, Eric!

***********************************************************************
* Hey! If UC wanted me to speak for it - I'd have a different job!    *
*   Jerry Wilcox, IS&C, UC Office of the President, Oakland, CA       *
* iscjcw@uccvma.ucop.edu === iscjcw@uccvma.bitnet === CIS 72760,2401  *
***********************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
From: ricky@adx.adelphi.edu (Ricky Glass)
Subject: Re: Rich Scott - Rob Buchner's ladder
Organization: Adelphi University
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 15:01:24 GMT

In article <dalex.12@elaine.ee.und.ac.za> dalex@elaine.ee.und.ac.za (DAVID ALEXANDER : FOURTH) writes:
>
>Obituarys:
>
>What the hell happened to Rich. Played 4 moves against him yesterday and has 
>since disappeared - this is very unlike the man who is currently playing 27 
>postal games simultaneously.

Don't forget all the games he has under the FNCF tournements Skittles 3
and Skittles 4. :-)

Yeah, as a matter of fact, he did dissappear yesterday. :-)
 
>Alas poor Rich I knew him not at all.
Just for some insight, he likes the Chicago Bears and Eric Clapton. :-)
;-)

> So this is in fond memory of the 
>ascii board brud.
>
>Survived by vbk, ray, pjl, tou, cva, jlw, kim, shm, ulf, jrq, rmc, peg, aph, 
>fhm, drw, jwa, bry, bll, geu, mud, mjl, mrk, wrp, fig, sho, bat.

Add to that Ricky Glass (rgl from the ladder).  If other FNCF want to
pay respects let them do their own post. :-)

>  Get back on your PC you lazy loafer.
That is what I say.   :-)

>                               ______
>                             /        \   
>                            |   RIP    |
>                            |          |
>                            | Richard  |
>                            |  Scott.  |
>                            |__________|
Possibly scenario, all his chess moves came in at once causing his PC,
the node and possibly all of Austrailia to be buried under a pile of
chess moves.


Ricky Glass

-- 
 vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
 (Dr\.\ )?R(\.|(ic((hard)|(ky))))\ Glass  {
         printf("%s (%s)\n", "Ricky Glass", "ricky@adx.adelphi.edu"); }
 /* recursive (adj.) See recursive.  ("The Devils DP Dictionary") */
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
From: jhc@iris.uucp (James H. Coombs)
Subject: Re: human vs. machines: right of refusal at tournaments
Reply-To: jhc@iris.brown.edu.UUCP (James H. Coombs)
Organization: IRIS - Brown University
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 03:56:31 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.022938.22434@cis.uab.edu> hyatt@cis.uab.edu (Robert Hyatt) writes:

>(3) most importantly, computers playing against computers proves very
>little.  In reality, the computer that searches deepest wins most of
>the games...  against humans, this doesn't always hold as evaluation
>rules, quiescence evaluation, search extensions, etc. can allow a program
>to play "more human like".  We have seen this phenomenon for years
>and it is a real pain.  my $.02 here.....

This seems like a very important.  People do want chess computers for
various purposes, and we want reasonable estimates of their strengths.
I thought that it would be sufficient to know their strengths relative
to each other, with some rough correlation with the human rating pool
(via the initial seed and occasional participation of pros).  But, if
we were to isolate the computers, then commercial manufacturers would
turn all of their efforts to beating the other commercial machines, and
techniques that make them play well against humans would be neglected.

Now what *I* want is a Master strength machine that plays like a
human.  I was very attracted to the Mephisto because of suggestions
that their machines play games with more signs of high-level planning,
but my inquiries were met with honest cautions that the human quality
of the play was limited.  In a sense, though, I am talking about a
feature here, not the strength of the program relative to people or to
other computers.  I consider it a feature because some of us would be
willing to sacrifice strength for "intelligence."

--Jim
From: wp01jst1@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu (John Tomas)
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Subject: Re: Fischer-Gligoric 6.5-1.5 (Blitz) ?
Date: 16 Aug 92 18:59:16 GMT


Well, Gligoric still plays international level chess, but I think the 
point is that it was a friendly match -- the two have been friendly for
a long time.

Mark Gisburg raises a point I had considered (Spassky's notable lack of
interest in serious chess), but at least he has had serious play in the
last 20 years!

Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess,comp.ai,rec.games.programmer,rec.games.go
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 22:55:05 -0400 
From: "Jonathan R. Ferro" <jf41+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: comp.games.research
	<1992Aug17.234351.13203@ists.ists.ca>

os9ug@gkcl.ists.ca (OS-9 User Group) writes:
> How about a more general newsgroup devoted to computing research in
> any and all tactical/strategic games?
...
> Actually it surprises me that such a thing does not already exist.  I
> searched through the list of newsgroups available at my site, and 
> was surprised when such a thing wasn't there.  Maybe I missed it!

This is what rec.games.programmer is supposed to be for, but it gets
difficult to define when a topic has crossed the line from "programming
games" to "programming this specific game effect on a PC/Amiga/whatever"
and should move to another group.  This means that the group is
regularly flooded by posts on hardware-and-display-specific concerns and
flame wars telling those posters to go elsewhere to hash them out.  On
the other hand, the thread "Computer-Controlled Players" started on that
group with no prompting from rec.games.chess, so it has its good and bad
sides.

A final suggestion is rec.games.design, which is just lying there
waiting for some enterprising group of people to come along and use it
for a really meaty topic like this one.

--
Jon Ferro		MIT Transportation Modelling Research Center (TMRC)
jf41+@andrew.cmu.edu	"We can hack it!"
SGNTR VRS VRSN 3.1B: Strppd nd cmprssd fr qckr trnsmssn! nfct yrs tdy!