HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: drmacro@ralvm13.VNET.IBM.COM
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 92 07:54:28 EST
Newsgroups: comp.text.sgml
Subject: Re: Precedence of SGML Operators?
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not those of IBM
News-Software: UReply 3.1

In <1802@igd.fhg.de> Hans Holger Rath writes:
>Is the first element definition equivalent to
>
>   <!ELEMENT x - - (z, ((a* | b)*)) > ???

I'm assuming you meant:
    <!ELEMENT x - - (z, ((a* | b*))) > ???

>                        _      _
>
>I don't think so and Mr. Martin Bryan in "SGML an Author's Guide", page 111 don't
>think so, too.
>
>I always thought, that the occurence indicators ("?", "+", "*") have a higher
>precedence than the group connectors ("|", ",", "&").
>
>What do the experts think about these problems?
>
>Thanks in advance,
>
 --Holger

I tried the test case with two different parsers (IBM SGML Translator
release 2 and release 3) and both flagged the B element as out of
context, which they should have.  Even if the grouping operator did
take precedence in (A* | B*), B is still invalid because the OR group
itself is not repeating and thus only A or B can be specified
(regardless of the repitition operators).  Thus, if A is specified, B
cannot be specified.  This suggests that (A* | B*) is equivalent to
((A*) | (B*)), which they are.  Both say "A repeated OR B repeated".
The grouping around the individual tokens does not change the meaning.

Eliot Kimber                      Internet:  drmacro@ralvm13.vnet.ibm.com
Dept E14/B500                     IBMMAIL:   USIB2DK9@IBMMAIL
Network Programs Information Development     Phone: 1-919-543-7091
IBM Corporation
Research Triangle Park, NC 27709

Newsgroups: comp.text.sgml
From: Erik Naggum <SGML@ifi.uio.no>
Date: 28 Dec 1992 23:19:49 +0100
Subject: Re: Precedence of SGML Operators?
Summary: Mark-It is not a conforming, validating SGML parser.

Hans Holger Rath <rath@igd.fhg.de> writes:
|
|   I've I problem with the operator precedence in SGML.

Actually, you don't.  You have a problem with some version of Mark-It
from Sema Software Technology, which in a different language could have
been explained by some arcane precedence rules at work; however, SGML
has no notion of operators or of operator precedence rules as these
terms are used in programming languages.

SGML defines a content model [126] to consist of a model group [127],
which in turn consists of a parenthesized list of content tokens with a
connector between them defining how the tokens must be satisfied within
the element content, and an occurrence indicator for the group defining
possible occurrences of a satisfied group.  A content token [128] is
either a nested model group or a primitive content token [129] which is
either #PCDATA or an element token [130].  Element tokens consist of the
name of an element, followed by its occurrence indicator.  There is no
possibility of confusion in this grammar as to which content token the
occurrence indicator applies to or how members of the list are to be
satisfied in element content.  An occurrence indicator for the element
token is no different from an occurrence indicator for the model group.

To summarize your problem: Given the two element declarations

	<!ELEMENT x (z, ( a*  |  b* ))>				(1)

	<!ELEMENT x (z, ((a*) | (b*)))>				(2)

some version of Sema Software Technology's Mark-It "SGML parser" reads
declaration (1) differently from declaration (2) such that a non-
conforming SGML document parsed with respect to the former is reported
as valid (which it is not), but when parsed with respect to the latter
it is reported as invalid (which it is).

It follows that Mark-It is not a conforming, validating SGML parser as
specified in the standard, and that any claims by the vendor that it is
must be taken with several grains of salt.

|   ... Mr. Martin Bryan in "SGML an Author's Guide", ...

Discard that book, and buy Charles F. Goldfarb: The SGML Handbook, ISBN
0-19-853737-9, instead.  Or ask questions here before you work too hard
figuring things out.  I know I would have been saved a lot of trouble if
I hadn't read SGML: An Author's Guide (Not!).

It should be fairly straight-forward to understand how Mark-It blatantly
violates the standard from reading the grammar and description of the
content model and model group, and the the clause defining conformance
to a content model ([412:14-24] in [Goldfarb]).  See 11.2.4 Content
Model (p. 409ff in [Goldfarb]), with additional material in 11.2.4.1
Connector and 11.2.4.2 Occurrence Indicator (p. 413f).

Hope this helps.

Best regards,
</Erik>
--
Erik Naggum                 ISO  8879 SGML                    +47 295 0313
                            ISO 10744 HyTime
<erik@naggum.no>            ISO  9899 C                 Memento, terrigena
<SGML@ifi.uio.no>           ISO 10646 UCS             Memento, vita brevis
Newsgroups: comp.text.sgml
From: ers@xgml.com (Eric R. Skinner)
Subject: Re: Tool for 'automatic' markup
Organization: Exoterica Corporation
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 17:17:35 GMT

In article <725605975snx@sgmlinc.com> brian@sgmlinc.com writes:
>FastTAG employs a "Visual Recognition Engine". This allows the 
>program to work with "fuzzy" specifications (e.g., heads contain 
>60% capitalized words). It is also considerably cheaper than 
>OmniMark ($1,500-2,500 vs. $15,000-25,000 -- these could be old 
>prices).

Exoterica's OmniMark product is currently in the $15,000 to $25,000
range, but this is *not* a per-seat license.  It is for a network
development license, with unlimited run-time application distribution
rights.

Also, I've seen a few mentions of "Software Exoterica"; this used to
be our name but we have dropped the phrase "Software".  We're just
called "Exoterica" now.

My electronic mail address was given out for those seeking information
on Exoterica products.  Since I am often on the road, a much more
reliable address is: info@xgml.com

Brian wraps up with:

>There is no magic.

A statement with which I couldn't agree more.

Happy new year to all!

-- 
Eric R. Skinner                ers@xgml.com
Exoterica Corporation   Tel +1 613 722 1700
Ottawa, Canada          Fax +1 613 722 5706
Newsgroups: comp.text.sgml
From: drb@dionysus.mr.ams.org (Drew Burton)
Subject: Re: LOOKING FOR Rubinsky's article
Organization: American Math. Society
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 15:59:03 GMT



	I presume that you're talking about Yuri Rubinsky, the president of
Soft Quad.  I've seen one of his presentations, which was excellent.  His e-mail address is rubinsky@sq.com.

	Drew Burton
	drb@math.ams.org
	American Mathematical Society
From: SGML@ifi.uio.no (Erik Naggum)
Newsgroups: comp.text.sgml
Subject: Re: ARCSGML
Date: 24 Dec 92 09:22:23 GMT
Reply-To: Erik Naggum <enag@ifi.uio.no>

Robert Weinberg <robertw@informix.com> writes:
:
|   Here are some recent listings I pulled from an Archie site. ...
:
|   Host slembe.ifi.uio.no   (129.240.88.1)
|   Last updated 03:59 11 Dec 1992

Aha!  So that's why lots of people pound on poor old slembe!

slembe.ifi.uio.no is an aging Sun 3/280, and used to off-load ifi.uio.no
when that machine was also a poor old Sun 3/280.  ftp.ifi.uio.no pointed
to slembe at this time.  I don't remember how long ago ftp.ifi.uio.no
started pointing to ifi.uio.no, but it's more than six months ago, soon
after we upgraded it to a Sun 4/75.

_Please_ use FTP.IFI.UIO.NO, and please help stamp out this old record.
slembe is likely to expire in the near future, but ftp.ifi.uio.no has
always worked and will always work.

I find it very sad that Archie counter-acts the use of aliases to move
services around on machines as they are upgraded.  And don't use IP
addresses for reference purposes.  One significant effect of domain
names is to be able to keep the name while changing the number.

The morale of the story is to use FTP.IFI.UIO.NO, and let the domain
name system (DNS) figure out which machine this is, and where it is.
(Software that doesn't use the DNS for name lookups have no business on
the Internet, anyway, and should be fought with all means available.)

If anybody knows how to tell Archie, I'd be delighted to learn about it.

Best regards,
</Erik>
--
Erik Naggum                 ISO  8879 SGML                    +47 295 0313
                            ISO 10744 HyTime
<erik@naggum.no>            ISO  9899 C                 Memento, terrigena
<SGML@ifi.uio.no>           ISO 10646 UCS             Memento, vita brevis
Newsgroups: comp.text.sgml,comp.text
From: gtoal@pizzabox.demon.co.uk (Graham Toal)
Subject: Re: Tool for 'automatic' markup
Organization: Cuddlehogs Anonymous
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 06:39:04 GMT

In article <20180.2b34a24a@ul.ie> murraya@ul.ie writes:
:Do anybody out there know anything about an application to `automatically` 
:generate markuped text, (possibly according to an sgml DTD) from an ordinary 
:ASCII file. 
:
:I like this application to work on user defined rules.

I hacked a custom application to do this myself, to convert tex-like
typesetting input files into fully marked-up SGML database files.

I tried all the common parser-generators, but none would cope with the
ambiguities of a grammar complex enough to describe real data (most of
what I was extracting from these typesetting files was bibliographic
references in various styles).  I eventually wrote a TDRC arbitrary-
lookahead parser transcriber to do the job for me. It ended up looking
a lot like Yacc, was much slower than yacc, and a hell of a lot more
flexible than yacc.

To do the job completely I took about a year to write the program, and
it *always* has to be modified whenever the typesetters/editors make
small changes to their layout.

It's not a job for the fainthearted.  I don't recommend it.

Of course, it depends on your data.  Just how free-form is it?

G
Xref: sparky comp.text.sgml:1229 comp.text:1493
From: murraya@ul.ie
Newsgroups: comp.text.sgml,comp.text
Subject: Tool for 'automatic' markup
Date: 20 Dec 92 16:41:46 GMT
Organization: University of Limerick, Ireland

Do anybody out there know anything about an application to `automatically` 
generate markuped text, (possibly according to an sgml DTD) from an ordinary 
ASCII file. 

I like this application to work on user defined rules.

          Aonghus
  
 
Newsgroups: comp.text.sgml
From: jbotz@mtholyoke.edu (Jurgen Botz)
Subject: Re: LOOKING FOR Rubinsky's article
Organization: Mount Holyoke College
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 16:01:46 GMT

In article <1992Dec21.103634.28539@cs.tu-berlin.de> phade@opal.cs.tu-berlin.de (Frank Gadegast) writes:
>Somebody told me to get an article by somebody called 'Rubinsky' posted
>to this news-group about the things happened to SGML, HyperODA etc. during
>the last year. He sayd, this article was a great summary ...
>
>DOES somebody knows this, and could e-mail me a copy

I'd be interested as well... maybe a re-post with an extended "expires:"
header is in order?
--
Jurgen Botz                  |   Internet: JBotz@mtholyoke.edu
Academic Systems Consultant  |     Bitnet: JBotz@mhc.bitnet
Mount Holyoke College        |      Voice: (US) 413-538-2375 (daytime)
South Hadley, MA, USA        | Snail Mail: J. Botz, 01075-0629
Newsgroups: comp.text
From: bergman@panix.com (Mark Bergman)
Subject: Re: Easy way to create unix man pages?
Organization: Panix Public Access Internet & Unix, NYC
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 22:49:57 GMT

I've got a script (SH, KSH) that allows you to "fill in the
blanks" and create a man page, with minimal 'roff knowledge
required. E-mail if you want a copy.

----
Mark Bergman
718-855-9148

bergman@panix.com
{cmcl2,uunet}!panix!bergman
Newsgroups: comp.text
From: Nitezki@NiDat.sub.org (Peter Nitezki)
Subject: Re: Easy way to create unix man pages?
Organization: Nitezki Datensysteme, Kraichtal, Germany
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 13:41:51 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.172023.9803@oakhill.sps.mot.com>  
wcl@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Wayne Long) writes:
> 
> I'm looking for a filter, utility, or editor that
> will take normal, what-you-see-is-what-you get
> text, and convert it into a unix man page with
> minimal hassle.

In my opinion, only a very sophisticated AI-system could do that, as Unix  
man-pages are roff documents in declarative text format and WYSIWIG texts  
are some kind of text-markup. Since I learned about half a dozen different  
text formatters in between, I have never seen any way to get a good  
translation from declarative to frame based and markup text  
representation. In most cases the way goes back to ASCII and then to the  
desired format by hand.

Man-pages are formatted using n(t)roff with an-macros (hence the call  
nroff -man to see the formatted document on screen). The functionality is  
limited so the complexity is quite low, which means it is easy to learn.
Best is to start with a fairly complex example from the man-pages on your  
system and then simply replace the text. You will see it's not too hard to  
guess the functionality of the macros. Anyway, you can also start with a  
textbook on Unix or some special literature on nroff/troff.
-- 
Peter Nitezki        | Nitezki@NiDat.sub.org # Blessed thou who knoweth
NITEZKI DATENSYSTEME | Tel.:  +49 7251 62495 # not about the pleasure and
Staarenbergstr. 44   | Fax :  +49 7251 69215 # delight of being hooked
D-7527 Kraichtal 2   | GERMANY               # up to the Net. Peter 1,3-5
Newsgroups: comp.text,gnu.groff.bug
From: gnb@baby.bby.com.au (Gregory N. Bond)
Subject: Re: Annoying ?roff-ism
Followup-To: comp.text,gnu.groff.bug
Organization: Burdett, Buckeridge & Young, Melbourne, Australia
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 00:31:38 GMT
Apparently-To: gnu-groff-bug@munnari.oz.au
Distribution: world
Approved: info-gnu@prep.ai.mit.edu
>>>>> On 28 Dec 92 16:24:44 GMT, jaap@alice.att.com (jaap) said:

	.de Tx
	.ie '\\n(.z'' T|\\n%|(cC.\\n(+(tT|\\$1|
	.el \\!.Tx \\$1
	..

And they wonder why I use TeX!
--
Gregory Bond <gnb@bby.com.au> Burdett Buckeridge & Young Ltd Melbourne Australia
      If I hear "Jingle Bell Rock" one more time, I will _scream_!



Newsgroups: comp.text
From: bruce@blilly.UUCP (Bruce Lilly)
Subject: Re: ?roff Man page help sought
Organization: Bruce Lilly
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 92 15:22:44 GMT
Reply-To: lilb@sony.comuserve.com (Bruce Lilly)

In article <1992Dec21.113202.14229@cas.org> lvirden@cas.org (Larry W. Virden) wrote:
>
>	key[, key2, key3]	First line of description
>				possibly continued
>				to two or more lines.
>
>Is there a std macro which would allow me to lay out things in this format?

If you want tabular layout, the best choice would be to use tbl. That way
you can have column headers that are repeated if the table spans across a
page boundary.

I suppose you could get the mm macro package's .VL list macro to do want you
want, if you really want to do it the hard way.

-- 
	Bruce Lilly		blilly!bruce@Broadcast.Sony.COM
					...uunet!sonyusa!sonyd1!blilly!bruce
Xref: sparky comp.text:1502 comp.text.sgml:1240
From: Ilkka Priha <priha@tik.vtt.fi>
Newsgroups: comp.text,comp.text.sgml
Subject: Re: Marking up 'Automatically' -anyone
Date: 28 Dec 1992 09:44:44 GMT
Organization: VTT/TIK
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: m24.tik.vtt.fi
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1.1d12
X-XXMessage-ID: <A7649A607801347C@m24.tik.vtt.fi>
X-XXDate: Mon, 28 Dec 92 11:49:52 GMT

In article <20186.2b362c76@ul.ie> , murraya@ul.ie writes:
>Can anybody give me details on an application to mark-up text from
ordinary
>ascii files 'automatically', using certain Rules  eg. two blank lines 
>indicates the begining of a paragraph. 

We have developed some tools with which to convert documents in different
word processing formats to hypermedia documents for on-line use. During
this process we use SGML as an intermediate format (as long as source
documents are not already in SGML).

The final hypermedia documents are in the format of Apple HyperCard
stacks and the conversion tools are also based on HyperCard. During the
next few months, we are going to program Microsoft Windows versions of
the same tools with Asymmetrix ToolBook. 

The idea of the conversion process is to read in the source document in
specific format, remove the format specific instructions from the text of
the source document and write the "clean" text into a target file. The
key point is that every time an instruction is removed from the source
text, a specific message is sent to a user defined converter. The
handlers for the conversion messages can be programmed with HyperTalk,
which is the interpreted programming language of HyperCard. The handlers
can map the removed instructions to whatever operations available in
HyperCard (e.g. to write SGML tags to the target file).

We have programmed converters for Ventura to SGML, RTF to SGML and SGML
to HyperCard. We have also planned to program a converter for ASCII to
SGML which would be based on specific characters in source text, such as
carriage returns, tabs, chapter numbers, etc.

The major user of the tools is a Finnish diesel engine manufacturer which
converts its service manuals for on-line use in ships and power stations.

We would be interested to have more cases where existing documents need
to be converted to hypermedia. For further information, you can reach me
at the addresses below.

-- Ilkka Priha

_______________________________________________________________________
. . ... ... Ilkka Priha                      Tel:      +358-0-456 6045
: :  :   :  Tech. Research Centre of Finland Fax:      +358-0-456 6027
 :   :   :  Lab for Information Processing
            Lehtisaarentie 2 A               Internet: priha@tik.vtt.fi
   T I K    SF-00340 Helsinki, FINLAND       BITNET:   priha@FINVTT
_______________________________________________________________________
Newsgroups: comp.windows.open-look,comp.sys.sun.apps
From: bossert@thalatta.com (John Bossert)
Subject: xvnews requires Guide
Summary: Need DevGuide to build/run
Organization: Thalatta Corporation, Bellevue WA
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 19:13:33 GMT

Hello,

The copy of xvnews I ftp'd in requires the DevGuide libraries to
compile/run.

Could someone (has someone?) build this such that it can be run lacking
the DevGuide distribution?

Could you then make it anonymously ftp'able?  Thanks in advance.


-- 

In-Real-Life: John Bossert, Thalatta Corporation, (+1 206.455.9838)
Domain: bossert@thalatta.com   Path: ...!sun!sunup!thebes!bossert
Newsgroups: comp.windows.open-look
From: jmjm@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (joseph.m.miklewicz)
Subject: XView Toolkit and X Resource DAtabase
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 20:44:51 GMT

I am running Openwindows 3.0 on SunOs 4.1-GFX on a sun4 platform with X
Windows version 11 release 3. I am pretty new at the X window stuff. I
have an application that was built using DevGuide, the XView toolkit.
What I want to be able to do is to the foreground and background colors
of certain instances of window, specifically a couple of control windows
contained in the application. I also want to be able to set the
foreground and background colors of all of the other windows in the
application to something other than the fg and bg colors of the above
two control windows.


In the toolkit, I specified the fg and bg colors for each window to
foreground and background, respectively. I can then use:

  programname -fg color1 -bg color2

to set the fg and bg colors for ALL the windows. I don't seem to be able
to get this to happen by added something like:

programname*Foreground: color1
programname*Background: color2

	or

programname*foreground: color1
programname*background: color2

to my resource database with xrdb. Do I need to add something to the
code generated by XView to get it to check the resource database????

Also, I'm very confused about what to use to specify a specific Class or
instance, e.g. one control window or one menu button. I just read in the
X Toolkit Intrinsics Programming Manual that XView doesn't use Xt!!??
Does that mean that the only resources I have access to are the ones
listed in Section 6 of the XView Reference Manual? ( Please say it ain't
so!!! ) If not then how do I go about doing so? Any info will be
appreciated. Please respond via e-mail.

Thanks
-- 
Joe Miklewicz	908-949-3061	jmjm@hogpa.att.com
Newsgroups: comp.windows.open-look
From: bdenton@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (robert.a.denton)
Subject: Xview help w/multiple windows
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 22:04:37 GMT

Can someone help me with the following please.

I would like to know how to have an application upon startup bring
up 3 simultaneous non-overlapping windows/frames where one of them is defined
as a term, the other 2 would be defined as stderr and stdout.

Reading throught Dan Hellars book, and looking at the sample code, I 
don't see how to do this.

Sample code would be greatly appreciated.


Thankx:


		Chris S.
		att!ihlpb!cds
Newsgroups: comp.windows.open-look
Subject: xdm and OpenWindows
From: tsf@Arizona.EDU (Ted Frohling)
Date: 30 Dec 1992 21:58:59 GMT
Reply-To: tsf@Arizona.EDU
Distribution: world
Organization: University of Arizona, CCIT-Telecommunications
NNTP-Posting-Host: opus.telcom.arizona.edu

I've been trying to get xdm to run with openwindows but have had no success.  If 
there some of you are doing this out there I'd like to `discuss` what you are doing
to get it working.  

Any help would be greatly appreciated.  Maybe someone can tell me where (which)
to look in a manual.  I've studied the manpages but can't seem to get it right.

thanks,
---
Ted Frohling                         tsf@arizona.edu
The University of Arizona            602.621.4834
University Telecommunications, Computer Center 131E
Tucson, AZ  85721

Newsgroups: comp.windows.open-look
From: meier@thumper (Christopher M. Meier)
Subject: Re: setting up Calendar Manager on network
Organization: Image Manipulation Systems, Inc.
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 06:00:54 GMT

In article <1992Dec23.030241.2267@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> michael@NSMA.AriZonA.EdU (Michael S. Williams) writes:
>I'd like to be able to access CM from several different Sparc2s
>within the same local network, but each machine treats the userid with
>the hostname (e.g., CM sees "name@mach1" or "name@mach2", not just "name").
>Is there anyway to access CM identically from each machine? Otherwise,

How about, "name@localhost", with a nfs mounted calendar spool dir ?
Anyone know of any problems with that?  Only problem I can see off the
top of my head is contacting someone else's calendar, you have to know
the host it's running on.  How about everyone running CM on one machine
(say a fileserver), with DISPLAY set to their machine?  Then, "name@
fileserver".

Chris

-- 

 Christopher M. Meier   Sr. Software Engineer   Image Manipulation Systems, Inc.
 Voice:  (612) 753-5602 Fax: -5603              17595 Partridge St NW
 Email:  meier%thumper@src.honeywell.com        Andover, MN  55304-1456
Xref: sparky comp.windows.open-look:4948 comp.windows.x.intrinsics:699
From: dpkemp@afterlife.ncsc.mil (David P. Kemp)
Newsgroups: comp.windows.open-look,comp.windows.x.intrinsics
Subject: Re: OLIT WAIT call
Date: 2 Jan 93 15:42:26 GMT
Organization: The Great Beyond

In article <1992Dec30.191710.27777@spectrum.xerox.com> anozzi@cinops.Xerox.COM writes:
>Is there any way to make OLIT simulate the XVIEW notify_set_wait3_func()?
>I am trying to simulate a function which will check the status of a forked child for any signals received and register a callback.
>

You shouldn't have to simulate it, you should be able to use it.  The
notifier (according to it's documentation in the XVIEW manual) does not
actually need XVIEW to run - it can be used by any code, XVIEW or not.

On the other hand, if your OLIT code does not use the notifier, then
you certainly don't need to start up the notifier just to use
notify_set_wait3_func() ! :-).  Just use wait3(2).

Note: I haven't actually used OLIT yet, so take the above for what
it's worth.


-- 
   Dave Kemp   dpkemp@afterlife.ncsc.mil 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Washington [D.C.] is a city of Southern efficiency and Northern charm"
     -- John F. Kennedy
Newsgroups: comp.windows.open-look