HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cummings@milton.u.washington.edu (Michael Cummings)
Subject: Re: English English versus *American* English
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 21:24:01 GMT

mmmirash@midway.ecn.uoknor.edu (Mandar Mukund Mirashi) writes:

>If that one was a joke --->   ha ha ha.....good one Tom!
>If it wasn't  ---->  I have no repeat NO grudge against Americans, in fact
>                     I find most of them very very friendly. Besides I 
>                    usually never look at what country, race, etc. an
>                     individual belongs to, when I make friends. The same
>                     would hold true if I ever found myself in the position
>                     of hiring a new worker in the US. I would evaluate him
>                     for his qualities, not for his nationality, race. etc.

	If you don't want people to think you dislike Americans, you
shouldn't refer to us as a "bunch of idiots," as you did in you first post.
I believe you didn't really mean that the way it sounded, but it's still
not very tactful.

-- 
Mike Cummings

"Namoore of this!... Thy drasty rymyng is nat worth a toord!"

Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: sp@mirabeau.osf.fr (Simon Patience)
Subject: Re: "In hospital" vs. "In the hospital"
Keywords: missing article
Reply-To: sp@mirabeau.osf.fr (Simon Patience)
Organization: OSF Research Institute
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 08:33:05 GMT

> "She graduated school last year."  That's
> something that I hear around
> here in the Philadelphia area, as well as from British friends.
> I have no idea where it comes from.

I don't know where your British friends come from but I would say
"She graduated from University last year"
               ^^^^
what you wrote sounds completely misformed to my ear.

Simon

  Simon Patience
  Open Software Foundation			Phone: +33-76-63-48-72
  Research Institute				FAX:   +33-76-51-05-32
  2 Avenue De Vignate				Email: sp@gr.osf.org
  38610 Gieres, France				       uunet!gr.osf.org!sp
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: slagle@lmsc.lockheed.com (Mark Slagle)
Subject: Re: English English versus *American* English
Reply-To: slagle@lmsc.lockheed.com
In-reply-to: mmmirash@midway.ecn.uoknor.edu's message of Thu, 30 Jul 1992 06:04:47 GMT
Organization: You wouldn't ask this if you'd seen my desk.
	<1992Jul29.191955.20099@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu>
	<ceRq00i00awQ8CfEVU@andrew.cmu.edu>
	<1992Jul30.060447.3592@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu>
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 21:59:47 GMT

In article <1992Jul30.060447.3592@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu>, mmmirash@midway.ecn.uoknor.edu (Mandar Mukund Mirashi) writes:

> But there is a certain standard to be followed....the right standard is
> the English English......if every Tom, Dick and Harry would come up
> with his own spellings for the same set of words, there would be total
> chaos. People wouldn't understands each other, and the language would
> lose the very purpose for which it evolved - communication!

What if I got a group of people together, loaded them on a
big boat, and took them to a new continent.  After a while
they might get surly about the guys way back on the other
side of the water raking off all the profits.  Then they
might throw some tea into the bay and tell the guys over
there to piss off.  And soon they might come to hold the
opinion that they'll write things differently because they
just know it'll chap their limey hides and put a major bug
up their cheeky bums.  What then, oh benevolent dictator of
fashion?
--
----
Mark E. Slagle                                 PO Box 61059
slagle@lmsc.lockheed.com                       Sunnyvale, CA   94088
408-756-0895                                   USA
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 16:29:48 -0400 
From: "Benjamin D. Lukoff" <bl2m+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: "need"
	<1992Jul24.160442.20692@news.columbia.edu>

Gabe Wiener said the use 'need' was actually the subjunctive. I always
thought it was one of those verbs which were conjugated irregularly, but
maybe not. Hell, I'm just a pre-college student at Carnegie Mellon
University anyway (though I did get a 770 on my SAT Verbal). I learn
something every day :)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: slagle@lmsc.lockheed.com (Mark Slagle)
Subject: Re: english english versu
Reply-To: slagle@lmsc.lockheed.com
In-reply-to: mmmirash@midway.ecn.uoknor.edu's message of Thu, 30 Jul 1992 06:00:37 GMT
Organization: You wouldn't ask this if you'd seen my desk.
	<1992Jul30.060037.3353@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu>
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 23:08:47 GMT

In article <1992Jul30.060037.3353@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu>, mmmirash@midway.ecn.uoknor.edu (Mandar Mukund Mirashi) writes:

> "Try to see it my way, only time will tell if I am right or I am wrong"
> - The Beatles

Time'z up.  I ast em an e sez yer rong.
--
----
Mark E. Slagle                                 PO Box 61059
slagle@lmsc.lockheed.com                       Sunnyvale, CA   94088
408-756-0895                                   USA
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@convex.COM>
Subject: Re: International English/Englishes
Originator: tchrist@convex.convex.com
Reply-To: tchrist@convex.COM (Tom Christiansen)
Organization: CONVEX Realtime Development, Colorado Springs, CO
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 16:20:36 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

From the keyboard of mmmirash@midway.ecn.uoknor.edu (Mandar Mukund Mirashi):
:    Thanks for pointing out my mistake.....however I tend to write
:English as I speak it.....I accept that "I have heard" is the correct
:alternative....I'll try to be more precise in my syntax, henceforth.
                                   do you really pause? ^???
:Please do not hesitate to correct me.....I am not like one of these
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

You will live to regret that statement.

:stubborn Americans. I do not claim that I have mastered the language,
						nope       --------->^
:and do commit errors. However I am always willing to apologise for
			      <---add a comma there
:them, and try and not commit them any further          

You mean "try to commit", and you don't a comma there, since
there's no independent clause.

Your usage of punctuation is abominable.  The first issue is that
you seem to have forgotted that sentences end with periods, or 
if you prefer, full stops.  This .................  thing is simply
wrong.   The second issue is that you display no understanding of
where to place commas.  They go between independent clauses, not 
between compound verbs.    Furthermore, you should insert them 
where the native, non-singsong speaker of English places pauses,
such as after an initial "however".

:      Why not follow the spellings (and as far as possible the pronounciations

What's a "pronounciation"?

:  ) of words listed in the O.E.D.? In India, we have a similar problem
:with Hindi. However, we consider the residents of a particular state, to
				    what the devil is this --------->^
:speak the pure form of the language and enforcers of the standards for

more to come...

--tom
-- 
"GUIs normally make it simple to accomplish simple actions and impossible
to accomplish complex actions."   --Doug Gwyn  (22/Jun/91 in comp.unix.wizards)

     Tom Christiansen           tchrist@convex.com      convex!tchrist
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: sds@henry.ece.cmu.edu (Sherwood Daniel Silliman)
Subject: Re: "Standard" pronunciation
Organization: Electrical and Computer Engineering, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 17:08:44 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.000538.2685@news.cs.brandeis.edu> gorokhovsky@binah.cc.brandeis.edu writes:
>Sorry if this is not the right group to post this message.  Could someone,
>please, recommend a book (possibly with tapes) teaching a "standard"
>English pronunciation?  Any replies by e-mail or through this nesgroup
>will be much appreciated.
> Thanks in advance.
> -Vadim Gorokhovsky                gorokhovsky@binah.brandeis.edu

Standard English pronunciation?  Definitely not the right group.
-- 
Sherwood D. Silliman         "When I give food to the poor, they call me a
                              saint.  When I ask why the poor have no food,
                              they call me a communist." --Dom Helder Camara
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: slagle@lmsc.lockheed.com (Mark Slagle)
Subject: Re: American Heritage vs. Websters 9th
Reply-To: slagle@lmsc.lockheed.com
In-reply-to: thompson@gumby.mgi.com's message of 25 Jul 92 15:28:49 CDT
Organization: You wouldn't ask this if you'd seen my desk.
	<SLAGLE.92Jul23135553@sgi417.msd.lmsc.lockheed.com>
	<1992Jul25.152849.1@gumby.mgi.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 22:16:46 GMT

In article <1992Jul25.152849.1@gumby.mgi.com>, thompson@gumby.mgi.com writes:

> I've always like American Heritage, but my copy is twenty years old.
> I know there is a much newer edition available, but I hesitate to
> buy it because most of the reviews I've seen stress its "political
> correctness", and I'm concerned that words have been deleted or
> definitions re-written with more concern for PC than accuracy. I
> suppose I can buy the new one for the new words and keep the old one
> for the "real" definitions. 

> Any comments?

I have the second college edition at work and the first at home.
I have not detected anything in the way of increased PCness in
the newer edition, though.  The far greater annoyance with the
second edition is that they have relegated such categories of
definitions as "Geographic" and "Biographical" to appendices.
This results in some difficulty in finding references to many
things because the location of the information depends on its
category.  Occam's razor appears in the main section, but the
reader needs first to find the "Biographical" section (no mean
task, does it come before or after the "Abbreviations" section
that we turned to at random?), and then we must look up Ockham
(note the different spelling) within the "Biographical" section
to learn a little more about the eponymous William.  I much
prefer having all the references together, even though it makes a
search within a particular category a more difficult scan.  The
ideal solution would be to have all the material in the main
section, with the categories excerpted, but not extracted, for
easy reference.
--
----
Mark E. Slagle                                 PO Box 61059
slagle@lmsc.lockheed.com                       Sunnyvale, CA   94088
408-756-0895                                   USA
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: baron@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Dennis Baron)
Subject: french
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 15:05:35 GMT

The English language has inherited a number of words and
expressions that reflect British distrust/dislike of the
French.  But the French are always happy to return the
favor.  Thus the French version of the French letter is
the British overcoat (redingote anglaise, ironic as
well since redingote is a borrowing, `riding coat').

One account I've read, though, suggests the Dutch fare worst
in terms of the English vocabulary, with Dutch courage and
Dutch treat, Dutch headache (hangover), Dutch widow (prostitute),
and quite a few others.

Chinese fire drill reflects a negative stereotype, but I've
heard suggestions that Chinese three-point landing (a plane crash) and
Chinese handball (where the ball must be bounced off the ground
before it hits the wall) are actually nothing more than 
references to the story that if you dig straight down (from the
US) you'll get to China.

Closer to home (again, US), states and cities come in for the
same treatment.  Arkansas chicken = salt pork; Boston screwdriver
= a hammer; Texas leaguer (aka Jap liner, Sheeny Mike, stinker) is
a cheap base hit.  An Arkansas fire extinguisher is a chamber pot,
and a California room an outhouse.  A California prayer book is
a deck of cards.

A New York minute seems to be a very brief time (< 60 secs.); is
it negative?  I heard it during convention coverage, but since I
am from New York I am not familiar with the term.


-- 
Dennis Baron                                         debaron@uiuc.edu 
University of Illinois at Urbana                     217-333-2392
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: slagle@lmsc.lockheed.com (Mark Slagle)
Subject: Re: What is a "Homie" or a "Homeboy" ???
Reply-To: slagle@lmsc.lockheed.com
In-reply-to: tony@disk.uucp's message of Thu, 23 Jul 1992 03:08:32 GMT
Organization: You wouldn't ask this if you'd seen my desk.
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 19:49:31 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.030832.3510@disk.uucp>, tony@disk.uucp (tony) writes:

> For the past year or two I have heard the words "homie" (homey,
> homeie?) and "homeboy" on television, in conversations of others, and I have
> read grafitti that contains that word.  What does it mean?  Is it deroggatory
> or should it be considered a complement?  
> I don't watch much t.v., so I'm counting on some worldly netter to
> cue me in.  Thanks!

As far as I know, it depends on who is saying it.  It is often
used to refer to a member of an urban street gang or, more
generally, someone from the same urban, presumably ghetto,
neighborhood.  If a homeboy uses the term, it is descriptive and
indicates some solidarity.  If an outsider uses the word to
describe on of the members it can be taken, depending on the tone
and attitude of the speaker, in the same light as "nigger",
"spic", and other racial epithets.
--
----
Mark E. Slagle                                 PO Box 61059
slagle@lmsc.lockheed.com                       Sunnyvale, CA   94088
408-756-0895                                   USA
From: michaeln@cs.uq.oz.au (Bunweasel)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: More unique?  polique!
Date: 25 Jul 92 15:58:55 GMT
Reply-To: michaeln@cs.uq.oz.au
Organization: Department of Computer Science, The University of Queensland

Well, the way I hear it it's "pol-ee-nome-ee-ul", "pol-ee-stie-reen",
"you-neek", "pol-ee-s@l-ab-ic", "boo-teek" and "pol-@p" but "more unique"
just ain't right.

(@ = gen. obsc. vowel)

$0.02, -m.
From: dand@buscard.fidonet.org (Dan Davidson)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: more unique.  (was: `
Date: 21 Jul 92 14:51:24 GMT
X-Maildoor: WaflineMail 1.00r



 -=> Quoting Wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk to All <=-

 Wi> Very tenuous link to a.e.u.: Dodgson was responsible for creating a
 Wi> number of words which are in more or less common usage today. [Is that
 Wi> good enough?] -- 

I suspect that you mean, "...more or less common use today...?


... Ad astra per aspera (or, I'll never get off the ground)
--- Blue Wave/QWK v2.10
From: smawer@datlog.co.uk (Steve Mawer)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Okey-Dokey
Date: 30 Jul 92 12:23:08 GMT
Organization: Data Logic Limited

baron@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Dennis Baron) writes:

>Now if we can find Kilroy, we'll be all set.

Well, he wasn't here. :-)
-- 
Steve C. Mawer       < smawer@datlog.co.uk> or < {backbone}!ukc!datlog!smawer >
		       Voice:  +44 81 863 0383 (x2139)
From: smawer@datlog.co.uk (Steve Mawer)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: English English versus *American* English
Date: 31 Jul 92 09:21:50 GMT
Organization: Data Logic Limited

mmmirash@midway.ecn.uoknor.edu (Mandar Mukund Mirashi) writes:

>Dear a.u.e readers,
>          I am exhausted.......I must have posted at least 25 articles
>today! There are bound to be several typos in some of them.....it is
>not my abject ignorance of the language (although I do acknowledge my
>failings), but rather the result of answering to so many posts and my
>not-so-good typing skills. I apologise for these unintentional errors.
>I realise that not all of you will concur with my views, however
>I hope that someday you will remember what I said. 
>                                                             Mandar

Thank you for your valiant efforts to defend my language.  As George
Bernard Shaw said "Good wasn't the word for it."

You deserve a rest.  Please take a long one away from a terminal.

Thanks in advance.
-- 
Steve C. Mawer       < smawer@datlog.co.uk> or < {backbone}!ukc!datlog!smawer >
		       Voice:  +44 81 863 0383 (x2139)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener)
Subject: Re: Nested acronyms revisited
Reply-To: gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 06:21:34 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.190912.7715@vax.oxford.ac.uk> wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk writes:
>On a thoroughly out-of-date thread I've just been reminded of
>the net's favourite two acronyms:
>
>fuck   ==  For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge.

Oh, gimme a break.  Does anyone actually *believe* in this folk etymology
anymore?  Maybe we ought to go back to "Fornication Under Consent of the King."

Fuck has its roots in earlier languages, not in acronyms.  See the german
word "fiken," the french "foutre," and of course, the Latin "futuo."


--
Gabe Wiener - Columbia Univ.     "This 'telephone' has too many shortcomings 
gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu       to be seriously considered as a means of 
N2GPZ in ham radio circles        communication. The device is inherently of
72355,1226 on CI$                 no value to us." -Western Union memo, 1877
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: lange@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com (Alex Lange)
Subject: Re: "In hospital" vs. "In the hospital"
Reply-To: lange@lmsc.lockheed.com
Organization: Moving Finger Writes, Inc.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 13:39:41 GMT

sp@mirabeau.osf.fr (Simon Patience) writes:
: In article <JAAPJL.92Jul23152543@cmb00.larc.nasa.gov>,
: jaapjl@tab00.larc.nasa.gov (J Lee Jaap) writes:
: > I strongly agree that it's idiom, and arguing which is `right' is
: > unfruitful.  However, comparing idioms can be very enlightening.
: 
: Agreed as ...
:
Also agreed, but no one in this thread so far has _been_ arguing
which is right... .

: > at/to work
: 
: And in work, ie I am employed.
: 
This would be idiomatically American "I am working."

Alex Lange
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener)
Subject: Re: "need"
Reply-To: gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 16:04:42 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.143946.29548@news.eng.convex.com> tchrist@convex.com (Tom Christiansen) writes:
>How come people use "need" instead of "needs" sometimes:

It's just a standard use of the subjunctive, in this case a contrary-to-fact
because all the cases discussed are hpothetical.


--
Gabe Wiener - Columbia Univ.     "This 'telephone' has too many shortcomings 
gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu       to be seriously considered as a means of 
N2GPZ in ham radio circles        communication. The device is inherently of
72355,1226 on CI$                 no value to us." -Western Union memo, 1877
From: eager@eagercon.com (Michael J. Eager)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: English English versus *American* English
Date: 31 Jul 92 03:29:06 GMT
Reply-To: eager@eagercon.com
Organization: Eager Consulting

In article 20963@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu, mmmirash@midway.ecn.uoknor.edu (Mandar Mukund Mirashi) writes:
>
>I am just starting a new (perhaps been beaten to death already??) thread....
>.....I am just a newcomer to the US and what struck me immediately was the
>difference in the written and spoken language. In India, we follow the
>English English, since IMHO it is the original and  pure form of the
>language. 

[lotsa stuff deleted]

Well, I learned English at my mother's very English knee (she is from
Manchester, but I would entertain the argument that Mancunian is not 
English, but I digress).  But I speak (and write) very American English.
It was difficult to learn, but I managed.

>    The major offenders: (written English)
>1. or versus our     - humor instead of humour! 

Some places.  But not others, such as brother is not brouther.

>2. ize instead of ise - standardize instead of standardise!
>3. e instead of oe and ae (as in original Latin) - fetus instead of foetus,
>                         hemoglobin instead of haemoglobin!

Actually, the ae and oe are single letters in some orthographies.  Since they
are both prononuced as 'e', there seems little point in keeping the other.

>4. er instead of re   - center instead of centre!

Uh, shouldn't that be pronounced 'cent-ree'?

Well, these rules are not cast in stone.  The orthography of English
was not passed down from the Diety, it was cobbled together by a bunch
of foreigners over many years.  Some credit goes to Caxton, from Normandy, 
who brought French and Dutch printers to England.  They were used to 
setting type in certain ways (h always after g, so we get 'ghost' instead
of 'gost').  The re in theatre is certainly from the French.

>5. method of writing the date (I still feel like kicking the rear end of
>   the nincompoop who made up this illogical method) : mm/dd/yy 
>   instead of dd/mm/yy. It just doesn't make common sense!

It makes sense if you map from the common way of printing a date:
month day, year.  So July 30, 1992, maps into 7/30/92.  

>      But I digress......all Americans reading this post...OPEN YOUR
>EYES...follow the true English and atone for your sins. 

Well, you are not likely to get many converts at this rate.  Consider 
an odd Briticisms:  gaol, which I always stumble on, and never collect
$200 when I pass.  British English is filled with oddities, just as 
American English is.

You sound like the average convert to a new religion.  You find that
there are people who don't practice exactly as you were taught.  And you 
are outraged.  Well, be outraged, but don't let that convince you that 
you are right. Or that there is a right.  

---
Michael J. Eager		Michael.Eager@eagercon.com
Eager Consulting		(415) 325-8077 
1960 Park Boulevard, Palo Alto, CA 94306-1141
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: sp@mirabeau.osf.fr (Simon Patience)
Subject: Re: Tree Structures
Reply-To: sp@mirabeau.osf.fr (Simon Patience)
Organization: OSF Research Institute
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 08:09:13 GMT

In article <SLAGLE.92Jul29191901@sgi417.msd.lmsc.lockheed.com>,
slagle@lmsc.lockheed.com (Mark Slagle) writes:
> In article <1992Jul29.090032.9884@osf.org>, sp@mirabeau.osf.fr (Simon
Patience) writes:
> 
> >> 	He was extremely polite to Lavinia, scrupulously, formally 
> >> 	polite; and she had never seen him in anger but once in her 
> >> 	life, when he lost his temper in a theological discussion with 
> >> 	her late husband.
> 
> > I interpreted "she had never seen him in anger but once in her
> > life" to mean she had only ever seen him once when he wasn't
> > angry, which I don't think is the intention. 
> 
> How do you come to this odd interpretation?

Simply because this is not an uncommon construction used by some authors
(of the Austen and Bronte ilk). "She had met him but once" meaning she
had only met him once, and extrapolate from there. The problem I am
finding is the use of never and but together in this construction. 

> > Am I alone in this or do others find it odd?
> 
> You are all alone on a bleak rock spinning through
> the blackness of space.

Well no actually. I have since spoken to other English people, who can
see the same problem. Maybe another transatlantic variance?

Simon.

  Simon Patience
  Open Software Foundation			Phone: +33-76-63-48-72
  Research Institute				FAX:   +33-76-51-05-32
  2 Avenue De Vignate				Email: sp@gr.osf.org
  38610 Gieres, France				       uunet!gr.osf.org!sp
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english