From: gregs@meaddata.com (Greg Smith)
Subject: Re: Clerics:  Deities Granting Spells
Organization: Mead Data Central, Dayton OH
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 16:05:37 GMT
Distribution: na

In article <1992Sep6.231117.15425@husc3.harvard.edu>, alvalent@husc9.harvard.edu (Alvin Valentine) writes:
|> This was the one thing that ticked me off about 2nd ed and TSR.  I noticed it
|> right from the beginning.  I loved the idea of different priesthoods getting
|> different spheres.  It wasn't just a good idea, it was necessary.  Priests
|> of Poseiden casting Fire Storm rubbed me the wrong way in 1st ed.  Still,
|> no priestly source is compatible really.  The Complete Priests Handbook is
|> out there and Deities and Demigods, Greyhawk Adventures, and FR Adventures
|> use none of the play balancing rules from the book and in some cases violate
|> CPH's "this should never be allowed" rules in tons of places.  I like the
|> Complete Priest's Handbook method for a few reasons:
|> 
|> 	1)  Given a quick glance, 9 people out of 10 will choose a PHB
|> 		Cleric in 2nd ed. to any specialty priest with limited 
|> 		spheres unless the special powers of the latter were excedingly
|> 		attractive.  This is bogus.  Again water people should
|> 		breathe water, not cast Fire Storm.
|> 	2)  Certain of the books are clearly laid out such that more powerful
|> 		gods grant SCADS more power than lesser gods.  Zeus may
|> 		give his priests Lightning Bolt 1/day plus major access
|> 		to everything.  Mediocre Demigod may give 1 major and 2 minors.
|> 		Makes good sense, but doesn't balance well with the XP side.
|> 		Imagine telling someone he had to earn 500K XPs for next
|> 		level to get one more 3rd level spell, while the Zeus 
|> 		worshipper over there gets +1 7th level spell, +1 6th, +3 5th..
|> 		Not quite fair, is it?
|> 	3)  Given 2), people may not pick the "deity for them," but the one
|> 		with the better "gas mileage" as it were.  Who'd wanna be told
|> 		that you are always gonna have 20 spells to pick from, when
|> 		the Mystra worshipper 'cross the street has 200.  Yeah, it
|> 		happens some with the CPH too, but nothing like it happens in
|> 		the "free form" religion handbooks.
|> 
|> So, what should we do?  Different XPs for different levels of power granting
|> seems reasonable (in fact, Greyhawk adventures does this nicely--these guys
|> are more powerful than most specialty priests so charge 'em 10% more XPs).
|> The CPH suggests giving some folks Druidical XP advancement if the are less
|> powerful, but if you built a Druid from the ground up using the CPH, you'd
|> probably give him the Clerical XP chart, 'cause they aren't that different
|> from the nature priests therein, who pay Cleric XPs.
|> 
|> Saying that you could come up with a different XP set for each priesthood
|> is a nice thought, but it's kinda hard to figure out down the road just
|> how many XPs    "X"   is worth without play testing some, and thus the reason
|> I like the scheme used in the CPH.
|> 
|> What do you suggest?  I don't have a problem with Zeus granting more power
|> than Loser-Demi-God, but I don't think Loser-Demi-God's priests should be
|> paying XPs out the nose for a token spell or two either.
|> 
|> Thoughts?  Comments?  Does anyone have a problem with this, or is it just me?
|> I have liked the 2nd ed. all the way.  I have overlooked minor difficulties,
|> but why the hell did they bother with the CPH if their own people were going
|> to COMPLETELY ignore it.  Perhaps one could argue that Greyhawk Adventures
|> works with it fairly well given the XP penalty thing, but Deities and Demigods
|> and FR Adventures are out there in left field as is every priesthood,
|> priest etc.  that are printed in TSR modules.  The CPH is ignored, and 
|> 2 priests of the same XPs could be VERY different in power levels.
|> 		
|> Later,
|>  
|> Lee Valentine


Most of your points have validity and I think you're on the right track to make
being a cleric of X vs. Y more fair.  I would allow the cleric of the loser demi-god
to have a few benefits probably not give in the books (I don't have the CPH, is it
worth getting?).

Consider the following:

If I were a demigod and had few priests, I certainly would be more interested in
increasing my following on the prime (assuming this gives gods more power, a la the
Star Trek episode with "Apollo"), than participating in ego filled "god fights".

  The benefits of such above attention could be:

1)  Whatever bonus spells the DM wants (hey, he has less power, but less clerics
to grant powers to), although this flies in the face of what the books say.

2)  Make NPC spell casting (raise deads, etc included?) much cheaper for them
since the God really wants to keep his followers and especially clerics alive.

3)  Make the creation of Magic items easier for them.  Not that you can be of
lesser level, but that the time required is much less (the god is paying attention)
so that this cleric might be granted items or be able to buy them/have them made
for him/her.

4)  Make scroll creation take less time/money/effort so that the cleric can make up
with scrolls, what they can't memorize because of the lack of bonus spells.

5)  Make new spell research easier.

6)  Give him/her DM selected spells they can memorized from normally prohibited
spheres.  (This may not sit well with some people, myself included, but it *could*
be done)

Add more if you like, I think the exp reduction ideas are good.
-- 
Greg Smith

DISCLAIMER:  My ideas are entirely my own unless MDC decides to patent them.
I am not empowered to speak for Mead Data Central or Mead Corporation.