HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: vprescod@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Veryl A Prescod)
Subject: Re: Original Names - Caribbean countries
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 02:01:06 GMT

In article <yXmZiB1w164w@student.business.uwo.ca> ggeorge@student.business.uwo.
ca (Gerry E. George) writes:
>
>Trinidad  - Iere  (as suggested by a Trini,  other Trini's care to comment?)
>
>Let's start up a list nuh.
>
>
>Gerry George

Actually Trinidad got it's name from the Trinity Hills which lie to the south
of the island, Columbus apparently referred them as La Trinite (The Father, 
Son, and Holy Ghost)

Veryl
Another Trini on de net
From: simon@acsu.buffalo.edu (Patrice A. Simon)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.caribbean
Subject: Re: Original Names - Caribbean countries
Date: 10 Apr 92 01:09:47 GMT
Organization: UB

Good to see the group busy! 

In article <yXmZiB1w164w@student.business.uwo.ca> ggeorge@student.business.uwo.ca (Gerry E. George) writes:
>Original place names:
>St. Lucia - Iyanola (or some close variation)
>	    hence the name Hewanora (name of the airport in the south)
>Trinidad  - Iere  (as suggested by a Trini,  other Trini's care to comment?)
>Anyone else?

	Antigua - Wadadli
	Barbuda - Wa'amoni
>
>ggeorge@student.business.uwo.ca (Gerry E. George)
>Western Business School  --  London, Ontario

	People should be making a fuss over the way encylopedias and other
information sources on the Caribbean and Africa (in particular) are written.
The first sentence is usually "Discovered by Christopher Columbus in ..." or
"The first Europeans to visit ... was ... in ..." 
-- 
Patrice Simon
simon@acsu.cc.buffalo.edu			v5097ucd@ubvms.buffalo.edu
opnsimon@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu
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Newsgroups: soc.culture.caribbean
From: plm@reggae.bellcore.com (Paul L. Mowatt)
Subject: Re: Healthy, wealthy and wise  [ long - 12k ]
Organization: Bellcore - Bell Communications Research
Date: 13 Apr 92 09:01:56


Paul,

Interesting coincidence!  Within two hours, we both post
articles, not only referencing the CIA Fact Book, but we
both include the entry on JA !!

Your offer is much more appealing, and useful, than mine,
so I shall happily defer.  The site I read and post news
from seems constipated now, and my article may be slow
in propagating; and, I am leaving for a week+ (yes, the
coincidence persists) [ to JA ], so feel free to follow-up
my article, which offers to post the Fact Book country entries
for the Caribbean, excerpting this note if desired, and steer
people away from my offer.

I will post a follow-up also, but, like I said, it might be
slow getting out.

Patient man ride donkey,
  Brent


--
_______________________________________________________________________________
|Paul Mowatt             __/ \__plm@reggae.bellcore.com "Materialism is wrong,|
|Bellcore, PY4 4G-319     |ojo| ...!bellcore!czar!plm    only when it's not   |
|33 Knightsbridge Road     \v/  (W) (908) 699-6947       evenly distributed." |
|Piscataway, NJ 08855-1342 / \  (H) (908) 422-4531                            |
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From: rfrance@umiacs.umd.edu (Robert B France)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.caribbean
Subject: Re: Calalloo - a recipe
Date: 14 Apr 92 13:35:16 GMT
Organization: UMIACS, University of Maryland, College Park, MD 20742

In article <92104.115456CSRCC@CUNYVM.BITNET> CSRCC@CUNYVM.BITNET writes:
>[... some great stuff deleted here ...]
>The rum is swiftly followed by a "swig" of
>water from the same glass. (Unconfirmed rumors have said that fire has been
>seen spitting from the mouths of the men.) I have seen the redding of eyes
>and the large beads of sweat froming on the face and foreheads of the men.
>There is also some spontanious vocal reaction generally in the from of
>"Whew !!"

I've seen some drink the Vincie overproof white rum without even a grimace!
We refer to this breed of homo sapiens as `iron bellies' reflecting the 
utmost respect for the part of the anatomy that has to cope with the caustic
intake.

And for those of you who dare suggest that the Vincie overproof rum pales
in comparison with others - just try it! I've not tasted the stuff before
- I refuse to drink anything that smells like methylated spirits!

Still it's great in rum punch, and punch a creme, 
and makes a wicked black cake.
I'll post my recipe for Vincie style black cake sometime soon (must use the
Vincie rum in this!).

>/Colin ST Rose

Robert
From: v5803ym6@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Willmour M Daniel)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.caribbean
Subject: music...
Keywords: calypso...
Date: 7 Apr 92 15:56:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

Where is the V.I. calypso at?  Leave address of music shop or mailing info.
Jam Band, Imagi and Ecstacy.  

			Rock/Chocolate City
			   run tings
From: backer14@wharton.upenn.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.caribbean
Subject: Re: Carribean vs. West Indies vs Antilles
Date: 8 Apr 92 16:25:30 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <52779@mimsy.umd.edu>, rfrance@umiacs.umd.edu (Robert B France) writes:

  [... very pertinent info deleted ...]
 
>>The Caribbean is all those
>>islands which lie in the Caribbean, and whose culture does not include cricket,
>>so Cuba, Puerto Rico, Bahamas (actually I don't know whether B'mas plays) I
>>consider Caribbean, but not West Indian.  Antilles are those islands which are
>>Dutch and French speaking!!!
> 
> Also continental countries bordering the Caribbean sea (e.g. Suriname,
> Venezuala, Guyana, Nicaragua etc.).
>>
>>Veryl
>>(another Trini on de net)
> 
> Robert

I think Robert and Ronel Perreault (see earlier post) have covered the
differences pretty well.  Let me add my $.02 in this discussion.

1. I think Southern Florida SHOULD be considered as part of the Caribbean
whether people like it or not.  Let's face it: the Greater Miami area has
been a Latin American and Caribbean metropolis for a while.  If this is
not a compelling enough argument (and I am sure many of you think that
way), then let's turn to plate tectonics (geology).  We'll discover that
Southern Florida and the Bahamas lie at the border of what is recognized
today as the Caribbean plate. American scholars on the Caribbean reject
this concept; I think it's time to start challenging their definition
of "our" space, especially if there's evidence that this alternative
definition is correct. (See Lara et al for supporting evidence).

2. As far as the definitions are concerned, the same expressions can be
used to refer to different parts of the Caribbean.  In general, it is
understood that "Antilles" is synonymous with "Caribbean". However,
in France, it is used to describe Martinique, Guadeloupe and St Martin
ONLY.  As far as West Indies is concerned, I have always thought it
as being equivalent to "Caribbean".  It is quite clear that Veryl
(and probably many other English-speaking persons) don't think the
same way.  (When I mail stuff to Haiti, I always write on the
envelope 'Haiti (West Indies)'. Isn't that telling?).

3. Because of what I have outlined in #2, I have come to reject the
expressions 'Antilles' and 'West Indies' when talking about the 
Caribbean. Their multiple definitions (depending on the context)
make them less effective in describing the region as a whole.
Also, Caribbean comes from the word 'Karib' or 'Caraibes' (name of
one of the 'original' ethnic groups that inhabited these lands).
Therefore, it historically precedes "Antilles" and "West Indies"
which came about after the "discovery" of the Americas.

4. I LOVE Veryl's circular - or is it recursive? - description of
the Caribbean ("the Caribbean is all the the islands in the 
Caribbean"?). I think that quote is pretty close.

Patrice Backer
"Ayiti cheri, pi bel peyi pase ou nan poin"

"Ayiti cheri, pi bel pey pase ou nan poin"
Newsgroups: soc.culture.caribbean
From: praim@connext.ucs.sfu.ca (Praim Sankar)
Subject: Re: De pelau recipe.....
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 18:11:27 GMT

In article <702775543@tuna.cs.duke.edu> js@cs.duke.edu (John A. Sammerson)  
writes:
> 
> 
> 	Ay Praim, ah trying out yuh pelau recipe right now
> so far, so good. It looks like it's gonna be a hit! I used
> pigeon peas, and because takes a long time to cook, I did 
> it seperately and added it after de rice. I would tink dat
> should be cool. It nice and easy, man, especially wit' some
> soca jamming in de background.
> 
 did I mention I made a big mistake?
From: ecurtis@orion.oac.uci.edu (Evans Curtis)
Subject: Re: Favourite soca for '92....
Newsgroups: soc.culture.caribbean
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 9 Apr 92 19:01:37 GMT

In article <702710485@tuna.cs.duke.edu> js@cs.duke.edu (John A. Sammerson) writes:
>
>   Ah finally get ah good sample of de jams fuh T&T carnival.
>Ah see yuh list dey David, but these are my personal favourites:
>
>   1) Jab-Jab - SuperBlue
>   2) Raise Yuh finger - SuperBlue
>   3) Jump (On de count of four) - Second Imij (all out favourite)
>   4) De Party now Start - Crazy
>   5) Penelope - Crazy
>   6) Jock Yuh Waist and Wine - Iwer George
>   7) Show me your motion - Rikki Jai
>   8) De Long Time Band - David Rudder
>   9) Both of Dem - Sparrow
>  10) Come With It - Black Stalin
>  11) China Man - Taxi
>  12) Wine Down (Bend And Touch Yuh Toes) - Byron Lee
>  13) Music - Shadow
>  14) Music To Dance - Atlantik
>  15) Way to go - Boyie Mitchell
>


OK, ok, how come I noh seh Lovindeer name here?  

Yuh tryin' to tell meh 'e no sing good?  Or 'e no sing no more?

BTW thanks for the list, I made a copy of it for when I make a trip to
Barton Records :)




Evans.-
If you get what you want tonight
  Will you remember me tomorrow?
      (Burning Flames)
From: ecurtis@orion.oac.uci.edu (Evans Curtis)
Subject: Re: Derek Walcott at Duke...
Newsgroups: soc.culture.caribbean
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Keywords: Readings.....
Date: 14 Apr 92 17:48:52 GMT

In article <1992Apr14.165436.29488@acsu.buffalo.edu> simon@acsu.buffalo.edu (Patrice A. Simon) writes:
>In article <53177@mimsy.umd.edu> rfrance@umiacs.umd.edu (Robert B France) writes:
>
>	There is a very active Communist group in Guadeloupe that I know of, as
>well as other groups that are seeking independence. However, I doubt that that
>move is popular given the amount of aid that the two islands recieve from 
>France.                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

While independence may or may not be in their best interest, I think they
have the freedom of passing their own laws/legislation/bills, etc.  THEY
should take the initiative to do so and avoid losing all the prime real
estate to those with more money.



Evans.-
Newsgroups: soc.culture.caribbean
From: fsmadja@figment.shearson.com (Frank Smadja)
Subject: Carribean vs. West Indies vs Antilles
Reply-To: fsmadja@alfred.shearson.com
Organization: Lehman Brothers
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 17:34:16 GMT


Hi there:

I always wondered what was the difference between Carribean, West Indies, or
Antilles . I guess Antilles if the French version for one of the first two but
which ?


Any idea ?

Frank
From: simon@acsu.buffalo.edu (Patrice A. Simon)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.caribbean
Subject: Re: Derek Walcott at Duke...
Keywords: Readings.....
Date: 14 Apr 92 16:54:36 GMT
Article-I.D.: acsu.1992Apr14.165436.29488
Organization: UB

In article <53177@mimsy.umd.edu> rfrance@umiacs.umd.edu (Robert B France) writes:
>Are these two islands seeking independence? It seems that is what they should
>be doing. On the other hand the French are notorious for holding on to their
>colonies - take e.g. the situation in Vanuatu - the Kanaks (a 
>militant pro-independence group of the island's indigenous people)
>have fought for years for independence and to no avail (at least up to the
>time I left the pacific region in '89).
>
>Is there a similar struggle in Martinique and Guadeloupe?
>
>Robert

	There is a very active Communist group in Guadeloupe that I know of, as
well as other groups that are seeking independence. However, I doubt that that
move is popular given the amount of aid that the two islands recieve from 
France. Not only does France hold on to their territories, but they really 
force French culture down your throat.

-- 
Patrice Simon
simon@acsu.cc.buffalo.edu			v5097ucd@ubvms.buffalo.edu
opnsimon@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: bb@generali.harvard.edu (Brent Byer)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.caribbean
Subject: Re: Healthy, wealthy and wise  -- CIA data
Date: 10 Apr 92 00:53:21 GMT
Organization: Textware, Cambridge, MA

In article <1992Apr9.162157.25607@burrhus.harvard.edu> I wrote:
> ...
>I think that readers here might find the entire country reports interesting,
>  ...
>I have appended the report for Jamaica as an example of what is included.

And, coincidentally (feh true!), so did Paul Mowatt.

>Would you all like to see the rest?
>If so, would 1-2 per week or the "whole heap" at once be preferable?

Paul's offer is much better than mine, and more flexible also,
so I happily retract my offer.

  "When it rains, it pours...",
     Brent Byer
Newsgroups: soc.culture.caribbean
From: richard@auvax1.adelphi.edu
Subject: Read This To Further Afrikan Liberation From Oppression
Organization: ADELPHI UNIVERSITY
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 21:10:06 GMT

To all who read this,
	I am the chairman of a wonderful and revolutionary new group, the
Afrikan Concerns Association.  Presently, we are attempting to give birth to a
newspaper with a vision, Afrika Unbound!.  This paper is designed to bridge the
Black student populations of Africa, America and the Caribbean.   Any written
contributions you can make are welcome. Also welcome is any help you can give
in expanding the numbers of organizations (caribbean clubs, etc.) that we
connect with.  Please give out my address to anyone who seeks to further the
cause of liberation and empowerment for the African Diaspora, as we are
utilizing all means of mass communications to reach the people.  I look forward
to hearing from you all.  Do not hesitate to write.
Peace and Power!
Richard Dennison, Adelphi University, Long Island, NY 11530
From: cooprman@a.chem.upenn.edu (Barry S. Cooperman)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.caribbean
Subject: Caribbean/Antilles/West Indies
Date: 9 Apr 92 21:57:09 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania
Originator: cooprman@a.chem.upenn.edu



	Since we are talking HISstory, I will add more on the 'name calling':
The island so called 'Hispan~ola'(little Spain) named by Columbus upon his
arrival was originally called: 'Ayiti','Quisqueya','Boyo' names collected from
the inhabitants of the island prior to Columbus arrival. So I don't want to
offend my dominican neighbors (quisqueyans), but I always refer to the island
as 'Haiti'(Ayiti, as we spell it now).
	
	Someone should have given Christoph (columbus) a 'world map' before he
left spain. We wouldn't be in such a mess! (Joke)

						Natif Natal!
From: ckhan@bbn.com (Chico Kahn (Room # 20/317 B))
Newsgroups: soc.culture.caribbean
Subject: Re: Callaloo?
Date: 10 Apr 1992 04:31:07 GMT
Organization: Bolt Beranek and Newman Inc., Cambridge MA
Reply-To: ckhan@BBN.COM (Chico Kahn (Room # 20/317 B))
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com

In article <8APR92.02253121@umbc2.umbc.edu> williamf@umbc2.umbc.edu writes:
>In a previous article, alleyne@olympus.ics.uci.edu (Brian D. Alleyne) wrote:
>>>What exactly is callaloo?


>Anybody have a recipe for cassava pone?  

I don't, but if you're ever in New York, check out Sybil's Guyana Bakery -
the make the BEST cassava pone north of Matthew's Ridge!


>>>Evans.-

>  I am going to have to get back to the WI soon if I am wrong here.  But isn't
>  there a separate vine called Callaloo, at least in Guyana?  When I was a
>  kid I didn't particularly like it, (it seemed like green slimy soaplike
>  stuff reminiscent of parrot shit) but the rest of my family loved callaloo
>  and shrimps.  BTW, Brian is right about edoe leaves and dascheen (didn't 
>  this have another name in Guyana, guyanese readers) being edible, I just 
>  seem to remember there was a separate callaloo vine that produced leaves 
>  that when cooked looked a lot like spinach?

William is right, there IS a separate plant called callaloo and it IS
exactly the same as spinach.  There are about three different varieties
that I know about - I can't remember the names of the first two (or even
if they had distinguishing names) but the third variety (and least tasty
IMO) is commonly available in stores here as bak choy.

Chico.
From: rfrance@umiacs.umd.edu (Robert B France)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.caribbean
Subject: Re: Caribbean, Antilles, West Indies
Date: 9 Apr 92 18:27:33 GMT
Organization: UMIACS, University of Maryland, College Park, MD 20742

In article <971yiB1w164w@student.business.uwo.ca> ggeorge@student.business.uwo.ca (Gerry E. George) writes:
>[... stuff deleted ...]
>While we're on this topic, I guess it would be agreed that CARIBBEAN would
>be the most correct name for the regoin.  BUT how does one call people from
>the Caribbean?

In the Pacific region the people inhabiting the islands are referred
to (unimaginatively!) as Pacific Islanders 
(a generic term covering Polynesian, Melanesian,
Micronesian, and Asian inhabitants). The same can also be applied to the
people of the island regions of the caribbean - Caribbean Islanders.
>
>Gerry George
>(Born & Bred 'Lucian)

Robert


Newsgroups: soc.culture.caribbean
From: lafong@jec323.its.rpi.edu (Gregory S. Lafontant)
Subject: Re: Caribbean/Antilles/West Indies
Reply-To: lafong@rpi.edu
Organization: Rennselaer Polytechnic Institute.
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 01:17:19 GMT

This article was probably generated by a buggy news reader.
From: jasammer@eos.ncsu.edu (JOHN ASHLEY SAMMERSON)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.caribbean
Subject: Re: Original Names - Caribbean countries
Date: 12 Apr 92 16:31:29 GMT
Article-I.D.: ncsu.1992Apr12.163129.22968
Reply-To: jasammer@eos.ncsu.edu (JOHN ASHLEY SAMMERSON)
Organization: Project EOS - North Carolina State University

--
>>Actually Trinidad got it's name from the Trinity Hills which lie to the south
>>of the island, Columbus apparently referred them as La Trinite (The Father,
>>Son, and Holy Ghost)
>>
>>Veryl
>>Another Trini on de net
>
>I thought that as he sailed down the east coast of the island he
>saw the three ranges, Northern, Central and Southern on the island, and
>referred to these as La Trinite. Or am I mistaken?
>

   Yep, you are mistaken. Trinidad was named after the 3 peaks on
the Southern Range; colloquially known as the Three Sisters. And I
think Tobago was named after tobacco....when the european settlers
noticed Indians smoking it. I don't know the original name.

   Ah Gone!

John S.
100% Trini
Trinidad is nice
  Trinidad is a paradise...
        - Bro. Valentino

*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*       
* Computer Arch & Telecommunications *   jasammer@eos.ncsu.edu *
* Dept. of Elect & Comp Engineering  *  or js@duke.cs.duke.edu *
* North Carolina State University    *  Phone:  (919) 489-0941 *    
*--------------------------------------------------------------*
From: paolo@chispa.Eng.Sun.COM (Apprentice Wizard)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.caribbean
Subject: Oletime Calypso, anyone know de lyrics?
Date: 7 Apr 92 14:34:50 GMT
Reply-To: paolo@chispa.Eng.Sun.COM
Organization: SMCC
NNTP-Posting-Host: chispa

I grew up in Trinidad (and still have family living there). 
Now I live in the San Francisco Bay Area and want to pass on some of that culture
to my kids, but I can't remember the lyrics!

Can someone help me out here?

I remember the tunes to these old calypsos (folk songs) and some of the words:

  Mango,
  Old lady walk a mile and a half,
  Since I'm actually venezuelan there are some payol parang tunes too.

Does anyone know of a book I can buy (or mail order) with this kind of music?

Of course this request probably makes it obvious that I've been out of the caribbean for 17 years. I listen to some new soca now and then but you've got to have folk music too.

---
------
Paolo Sabella
SMCC
(415)-336-6393
Newsgroups: soc.culture.caribbean
From: donawa@cs.mcgill.ca (Chris DONAWA)
Subject: Re: Calalloo - a recipe
Organization: SOCS, McGill University, Montreal, Canada
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 21:45:11 GMT

In article <1992Apr10.173223.12487@sfu.ca> praim@connext.ucs.sfu.ca (Praim Sankar) writes:
>
>
>VAT19 is only the best rum in the whole wide world!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

'atall* 'atall 'atall!  Cockspur is de ting!  Ask any bajan :)

>
>2 shots of rum while cooking makes the food taste better
>or at least no worse.

No argument there!

(*  'atall ==> "Not at all" in QE)

chris
From: isler@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (L. Rosanne M. Adderley)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.caribbean
Subject: Cricket and the West Indies definition
Date: 10 Apr 92 06:12:50 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

(I can't resist saying how happy I am to see the newsgroup so busy!)

My only regret is that I am now far too busy to appreciate it much, but
I did scan a few of these West Indies/Caribbean/Antilles discussions and
could not resist throwing a kink into the cricket thing.

I am from the Bahamas.  CRICKET used to be a really big deal--like for
my parents generation.  Then it gradually lost popularity.  Recently
it has been regaining some interest with younger folks and the Bahamas
Cricket Association even wants to try get it introduced in schools [again.]

What does this mean for your definition?  The Bahamas "used to be West
Indian" but then stopped being so as cricket lost popularity?  The Bahamas
will "become a part of the West Indies" if the BCA succeeds in its revival?
And just how much cricket is enough cricket, to keep you in the West Indies?
We still have matches every weekend during much of the year to the best of
my knowledge?

Yes, this is quibbling.  But I thought it would be interesting (or at 
least fun) to push you on this definition?!

peace,

rosanne
From: dm50@lucy.umd.edu (Jose A. Castanos)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.caribbean
Subject: Re: Original Names - Caribbean countries
Date: 16 Apr 92 20:05:00 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park

In article <yXmZiB1w164w@student.business.uwo.ca> ggeorge@student.business.uwo.ca (Gerry E. George) writes:
>Original place names:
>
>St. Lucia - Iyanola (or some close variation)
>Let's start up a list nuh.
>
>Gerry George
>ggeorge@student.business.uwo.ca (Gerry E. George)
>Western Business School  --  London, Ontario

	The Hispaniola (encompassing the Dominican Republic and Haiti) was
called 'Quisqueya' by the Tainos who lived there upon Columbus' arrival on
December 5, 1492.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jose A. Castanos       | Computer Science Dept. |"If a person never contradicts
(castanos@wam.umd.edu) | University of Maryland | himself, it must be that he 
(dm50@umd5.umd.edu)    | College Park, MD       | says nothing." -M. de Unamuno
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