From: jenk@microsoft.com (Jen Kilmer)
Subject: types of "power"
Date: 09 Oct 92 04:08:21 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

This is something I originally posted on our internal
bbs. It seems rather appropriate here, as well....


One of the things underlying many of the discussions here 
is that :

	Many women feel that they are usually judged as 
	having or not having worth based on their 
	attractiveness EVEN THOUGH their attractiveness 
	DOES NOT relate to the situation.

IE, that their worth to the company and/or ability to do a 
certain task (code, test, communicate, build, manage, etc) 
is being determined by their level of attractiveness to men.

This is something that many women seem very sensitive to. My
experience is different - according to the prevelent norms of
north american society, I am considered non-sexually appealing
(or non-sexual, period).  Thus those who judge a women's worth
by the women's attractiveness tend to find me worthless. I do 
not read a number of magazines targeted toward women because 
their prevailing attitude is that fat women are - well, they 
don't say sh*t, but....  I also have broken contact with certain 
members of my family and limit contact with others for this same 
reason. 

You say "Oh, really"?  The day I received my BS cum laude in 
CompSci, 2 days before I started at MS, I was told by 7 different 
so-called people that I should lose weight before I'm too old to 
catch a man. 

primal scream time:
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BEING ATTRACTIVE SO I CAN CATCH A MAN IS NOT WHAT I WANT TO DO
WITH MY LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I do not mean that I would attack someone who found me attractive; 
I do find that flattering.  I mean that being attractive is not my
primary goal in life. Neither is "catching" a man. I do not see
myself as a sex object - perhaps because I don't see men as success 
objects. 

Men are mostly evaluated in this society by their moneymaking ability,
and their prestige.  IE, how successful are they?

Women are mostly evaluated in this society by how they look.  IE, how
sexy are they?

In the workplace, we have men and women trying to be "successful" -
able, competent, productive, moneymaking, maybe attain some prestige.
These are the things men have been evaluated as. (Many men are sick
of it, and men should not have to be under pressure to be successful
if they don't want to be successful, but this is soc.women). But 
the women haven't been evaluated on these terms as much - many of them 
are FIGHTING to be evaluated on these terms.  Thus, when a man comments 
on a woman's attractiveness, she sees herself as being thrown of the 
field that she's fought so damn hard to get onto - back onto the woman's 
field of NOT having prestige or moneymaking ability of her own. 
So she freaks.

Yeah, these are sweeping generalizations.  Yeah, there are lots of women
(and men) who DO see women as sex tickets and men as meal/life/success 
tickets.  (And men should have the same right to be sex tickets and to 
use women as meal/life/success tickets if they want to - if both mutually
agree, same as when a woman uses a man in this way. Again, this is .women)
Maybe they think it's easier to try to appropriate "their" man's success 
than to get their own, maybe they're afraid of living a life instead of 
piggybacking on a man's, maybe they really believe that being beautiful 
is the highest thing in life and that men should make the money, have 
all the fiscal/legal/automotive/homeownership responsibility, drive the 
car, and be on top.  Maybe they're sh*theaded idiots. I don't care.  
I just know that I'M NOT ONE OF THEM, SO DON'T JUDGE ME BY THEIR STANDARDS.

I also know that if you're a man, and you don't want to be some woman's
meal ticket, THEN DON'T DATE THAT KIND OF WOMAN. OKAY? If you don't want
a Ford, don't buy one, is that so goddamn hard?


-jen