HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Date: Thu,  3 Sep 1992 09:17:40 -0400 
From: Steven Timm <st0o+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Album Review:  Michael W. Smith  "Change Your World"



In this album, Mark Heimermann joins Michael W. Smith as lead producer.
That is the most defining characteristic of the album.  Heimermann has
produced extensively, mostly the "Prism" series for kids and the recent
Lisa Bevill album.  The kids he's been producing for are growing up
and this album is an obvious target to catch them as teenagers.  Also,
Heimermann has a long association with Smith, having toured with him
several times.

The writers on this album have been previously mentioned here.  Diane 
Warren, who writes for Kathy Troccoli as well as a lot of more famous people,
contributes a set of lyrics, as does Toby McKeehan (DC Talk).  Amy Grant
co-wrote a couple songs and sings a duet on "Somewhere, Somehow"

The sounds of this album are a Michael W. we've never heard before and
hopefully will never hear again.  The strong keyboard lines and
traditional harmonies that mark his music are a thing of the past.  The
best song on 
the album is the re-make of "Friends" but this is marked by all-male backing
vocals by the people who are his band and musicians on both of his albums
(Harris, Rodriguez, Kirkpatrick)

The words are stimulating as usual, "Give It Away", "Cross of Gold"
and "Color Blind" providing most of the fireworks here.  But even so 
the God-and-Jesus meter is turned down a couple of notches.

This is teeny-bopper music, not baby boomer music.  If you liked Lisa 
Bevill's album you will like this one, too.  The main difference between
this and Lisa Bevill is that she can sing and M. W. Smith can't.  This
is Smith's worst album since "The Live Set."  But on a bad day he's better
than most people at their best, and although it's not a great album,
it will provide much listening enjoyment for a long time to come.

Steve's ranking:  Three thistles on a scale of -5 to 5



Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: ins242k@lindblat.cc.monash.edu.au (Mr W.C. Eksteen)
Subject: What's happening to STRYPER and Michael?
Organization: Monash University
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 04:22:52 GMT



Could someone please fill me in on the current events concerning STRYPER
and Michael Sweet. I've heard rumours about them splitting up or something 
like that, is it true could you please e-mail me. Thank you so much.



--





*********************************************************************************==============================================================================**|                                                        		      |*
*|      Winston Eksteen						              |*
*|	E-mail : ins242k@lindblat.cs.monash.edu.au			      |*
*|	E-mail : ins242k@aurora.cs.monash.edu.au			      |*
*|									      |*
*|	Monash University (Clayton Campus)				      |*
*|	Melbourne, Victoria 						      |*
*|	Australia							      |*
*|									      |*
*|	" Not by might, not by power, but by my Spirit says the Lord. "       |*
*==============================================================================*********************************************************************************



ps. You can also tell when Satan is really getting upset with the work of 
God's children, he'll do his very best to break us in what ever way he is able
to . But just remember we have the authority over him if only we would use the 
power given to us.
From: harling@pictel.com (Dan Harling)
Subject: Re: Is music amoral??
Organization: PictureTel Corporation
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 17:57:27 GMT

In article <1992Sep1.145917.17953@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> noel@crs.cl.msu.edu.UUCP (Noel Estabrook) writes:
>In article <1992Sep1.040322.19749@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> hill@spot.Colorado.EDU (Michael Hill) writes:
>>>presentation was different - they had to alter it.
>>No no no!  You responded to the first three sentences, while entirely
>>ignoring the point I was trying to make with the rest of the paragraph.
>>The key is, imagine if the song had originally been written without that
>>single verse.  Use your imagination, don't just say "But it wasn't".
>
>I don't generally like to deal with non-existent hypothetical situations, but
>ok.  First, it was altered (significantly, I think).  IF they had performed
>it exactly as Fleetwood Mac had, then, yes, I would agree that the meaning
>would have been the same and I would have a hard time accepting it.

The poster who introduced this example said that the Imperials changed
this line to make their intention *clearer*, meaning *more* apparent
than it *already was*.  Sort of how some CCM listeners need to hear
keywords like "God" and "Jesus" in a song, or they need someone to tell
them whether they should listen to it in good conscience.  2 x :-)

Of course, this begs the question as to the original intent of the
music, because the original poster obviously believed that the subject
was the same even before the line change, whereas Noel apparently
insists that it could not possibly be so.  While the former believed
that the line change merely served to amplify a message that was
already there, Noel must *by definition* reject that explanation,
concluding that the original song must have had a different meaning.

Please correct me, as clearly as possible to avoid miscommunication, if
this summary is inaccurate in any way.
____________________________________________________________________________
Daniel A. Harling                        (harling@pictel.com)
PictureTel Corp.             Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of
Peabody, MA  01960                 PictureTel, but they ought to be!
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: R Todd Albee <rta1@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: What's happening to STRYPER and Michael
X-Xxdate: Wed, 2 Sep 92 11: 54:54 GMT
Nntp-Posting-User: rta1@cornell.edu
Organization: Cornell University
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d7
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 15:50:24 GMT


Michael Sweet left Stryper to pursue a solo career.
Enigma dropped Stryper's contract.
Stryper is looking for a new lead singer.

Todd
From: logan@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Logan Shaw)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: Accountability in CCM
Date: 31 Aug 92 19:56:26 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

In article <87307@netnews.upenn.edu> crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Lauren L. Crawford) writes:
>
>This brings up a very interesting issue.  It's probably come up before in
>this group, but not since I've been reading it.  
>
>Should Christian musicians be held accountable by their recording companies
>in addition to their churches?  What guidelines should said companies use,
>if so?  

This is an interesting issue in general, and it happens to be one we
recently had a discussion on at my church (henceforth referred to as
UBC).  

Points that came up:
	- Church discipline has generally been ignored in probably
		too many case (especially in alot of Baptist churches).
	- A church has to be *very* careful in discplining a fellow
		Christian.  According to the scriptures, the person should	
		be confronted in private, first by an individual, then
		by a few, etc.  ONLY after several attempts have been
		made should church discipline be exercised.

IMHO, church discipline is an extremely touchy area that requires large
amounts of caution.  We all want to avoid disciplining others for something
that was only wrong in our eyes.  Even more than that, we need to be careful
of giving preference to certain sins that are MORE WRONG in our eyes than
others.

There is always the case of Leslie/Sam Phillips.  As I understand it, one of
the reasons she left Word was that they told her that the facial expression
she had on her proposed album cover photo was too provocative.  I think they
just did not understand Leslie and tried to force her into a mold she did
not fit into and should not have fit into.

Word lost a very good artist, all because they wanted her to conform to
their standards, not God's standards.

Well, I've covered all the important points, so we can go back to
discussing music, right?  ;-)

Adios,
  Logan
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: jlaplant@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John R Laplante)
Subject: Re: Statement Condemning Musical Forms (was: is music amoral)
Organization: The Ohio State University
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1992 02:01:04 GMT


As the one who posted the group statement (remember, NOT my own views), I
appreciate the comments that everyone made. It was fun to see the reactions
and let some minds loose on the foolishness (sadly) of some people (with
whom I was associated with for a long time) who seem to confuse
personal taste and biblical doctrine.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------
john r la plante                    calling from the Ohio State University
jlaplant@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu  political analysis done while you wait

Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: mdw@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (mark.d.wuest)
Subject: Re: Which music amoral??
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 13:28:23 GMT

In article <Btyr22.9FI.1@cs.cmu.edu> tp0x+@cs.cmu.edu (Thomas Price) writes:
>Look, you idiot.

>Just try very hard to imagine it, won't you?

>I put to you that you are obliged to do this thing, to imagine....

>...you are commanded to love him as yourself -- you idiot -- you...

>Your religiosity is useless. So are you.

Well, this post sure helped *me*!

(Gag, barf, puke, etc...)  What a kind, loving guy, this Thomas Price!

Mark
-- 
Mark Wuest                            *MY* opinions, not AT&T's!!
mark.wuest@att.com
mdw@cheshire.att.com (NeXT Mail)
From: reykja@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Reykja Sigurdsson)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 05:48:10 GMT
Subject: Re: Suggestions for church library
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian

Twila Paris


Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: trw@spl1.spl.loral.com (Tim R Witort)
Subject: Indigo Girls
Organization: Loral Software Productivity Laboratory
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 19:37:40 GMT

I recently heard a song by the Indigo Girls and I really
liked their sound. I stopped by a record store to check
out their song titles and covers to see if I could find 
out if they are in any way sleazy in their lyrics or are
respectable. Their song titles didn't tell me anything.
 
Can anyone give me a Christian review of the content of
their music? Just don't want to buy a CD and regret it
after listening to it....

thanks,
-- Tim
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: caw@gtech.com (Christopher A. White)
Subject: Re: Is music amoral??
Organization: GTECH Corporation, West Greenwich, RI
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 18:46:42 GMT

In article <86734@netnews.upenn.edu> crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Lauren L. Crawford) writes:
>In article <1992Aug21.134021.4418@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> jpersons@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John C Persons) writes:
>>In article <1992Aug20.170543.2441@rambo.atlanta.dg.com> wpr@atlanta.dg.com (Bill Rawlins) writes:
>>
>>>
>>>   An example I gave of "fleshly" is the urge you get to mash down the accelerator
>>>   in your car when the heavy metal music comes on.  
>>
>>
>>I think it's adrenaline, that wonderful God-given substance in
>>our bodies.  I have the same tendency when singing "He's the Mighty
>>One of Israel," for example.  (Hosanna-type non-heavy-or-even-light-
>>metal praise song
>
>I have the same reaction to singing along with Rich Mullins, "Our God
>Is an Awesome God" or "Sometimes by Step."  That speedometer just zips
>right up there.  I should probably just listen to Bach when I drive. ;-)
>

Stay clear of Pachelbel, though.

Topher
-- 
 Christopher A. White                    | Here's a test to see if you've
 caw@gtech.com                           | completed your mission in life. 
 GTech Corporation, West Greenwich, RI   | Are you alive? You haven't.
 The opinions expressed are mine alone   |        - Bach
From: noel@crs.cl.msu.edu (Noel Estabrook)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: TANGENT: Is sarcasm appropriate for Christians?
Date: 2 Sep 92 17:16:53 GMT
Reply-To: noel@crs.cl.msu.edu.UUCP (Noel Estabrook)
Organization: Michigan State University

In article <1992Sep1.224235.6453@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> jlaplant@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John R Laplante) writes:
> Yes, this is a serious question, and I hold no position either way. I'm
> curious what others think.
> My initial feeling is that sometimes sarcasm is appropriate, especially
> if directed towards ideas rather than people. But I'm at a loss to
> figure out when it IS appropriate.
> Comments please (straight answers, please).  

(Now how did you know I would respond? :-))

First, I think we need to make a distinction between sarcasm and irony.
Someone mentioned Job's use, but I would submit that he was using irony.
When we talk about sarcasm today, it is generally accepted as a negative
term (sarcasm - a taunting or caustic remark [Webster's Revised]).  Are
caustic and taunting remarks good things?  No.  Someone brought up Matt.
12:36, and that's an excellent verse, but doesn't have direct bearing on
the issue, since one could say, "well, my sarcasm isn't "idle" or "careless",
I know what I'm doing."  

Let's then, go on to Galatians 4:29 "Let no unwholesome word proceed from your
mouth, but _only such a word as is good for edification according to the need
of the moment, that it may GIVE GRACE to those who hear."  Now, does sarcasm
generally do this?  No.  Ironic use of the language may be humorous and 
useful, and if this is what you want to call sarcasm, fine.  However, I 
think that sarcasm generally is used to show that one has power or superiority
over another.  Somehow, the person using sarcasm feels especially clever and
superior of wit, and has the intent of showing, not the inaneness of someone's
point, etc, but rather of showing the inaneness of the other person.

I think the closest we can come to in Scripture to sarcasm  is the word "mock"
used repeatedly in Proverbs.  Literally, the word "mock" in the OT means to
"show dirision", or to taunt.   It is interesting to note that this term is
most often used in close proximity to the term "fool" (i.e, "a fool mocks.."
PROV. 14:9).

It seems that caustic, unedifying language is unbecoming to a believer at
best, and sinful at worst.  We should all seek to build others up, not
tear them down.



--
Noel Estabrook          |       Let us not merely do that which is our
noel@crs.cl.msu.edu   __|__	RIGHT, rather, let us desire to do that
Educational Technology  |	which IS right - Me
Michigan State Univ.    |				Romans 12:2
From: gt6223b@prism.gatech.EDU (Jerry B. Ray)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: Is music amoral??
Date: 2 Sep 92 18:54:04 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

In article <1992Sep2.163642.1379@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> noel@crs.cl.msu.edu.UUCP (Noel Estabrook) writes:
 In article <1992Sep1.203742.426@news.cs.brandeis.edu> aaron@binah.cc.brandeis.edu writes:
 >How about "Dream On" then?  I referred to it before and got no response.  Greg
 >Volz didn't change the lyrics or the music when he performed it.  The only
 >thing that changed was the performed and the context in which the song was
 >peformed, which changed the listeners expectations of the song.  If the song
 >can be used in a "Christian" setting, how can it be evil?
 
 I would probably have a hard time with this.  If nothing else, it could be
 evil in the sense that it could cause some to stumble (i.e. ME).  With my
 history of drug addiction, etc, this song brings back some very unpleasant
 memories, and as such would not edify me in the least, in fact, it could
 cause some harm...

Correction:  it would be a bad thing for you to listen to.  That does not
make it a bad thing for myself or anyone else not in your situation to 
listen to.  The evil attached to the song comes from within you, not from
the song.  If i smoked dope while listening to Sandi Patti years ago, and
now her music brings back those memories and feelings, the problem lies 
with me.  Sandi's music is not evil because of the associations that i place
on it.

JRjr


-- 
'Hear the tale of a fallen people, destined to wander their broken land.
Their eyes are vacant, full of empty meaning, and what they're missing they
just don't understand.  Beyond the dark horizon, out where the people are
crying, a Morningstar will be rising, rising to show us the way...' Whiteheart
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: wdo@TEST1.acd.com (Bill Overpeck)
Subject: Re: The Five Points of Fundamentalism
Organization: Applied Computing Devices, Inc., Terre Haute IN
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 21:38:33 GMT

In <1992Aug24.203057.18138@meaddata.com> johnt@meaddata.com 
   (John Townsend) writes: >

> ... You must have been munching popcorn or something, though, when 
> they interviewed a former BJU student who was very critical of the university.> This person did mention, apparently as his primary area of disagreement with 
> them, the university's alleged racism, particularly its refusal to lower the 
> flag to half staff upon the assasination of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. (the 
> university told students, "We will never lower our flag for an apostate.")  
> It's worthy to note that this is a doctrinal difference, not a racial one, 
> and I can sympathize with it even if I wouldn't have done the same thing.  
> The *only* racial policy that the university has is one against interracial 
> dating and marriage, which they believe is scripturally founded and is applied> equally to everyone, and for it they have even been willing to even sacrifice > their tax exempt status.

When I did my obligatory semester at Lynchburg Baptist College (now Liberty
University) in 1973, I was told by several people that BJU had only recently
(within the past couple of years) permitted blacks to live on campus.  If
true, then the university's racial policies may have been quite different
~20 years ago.  Were you aware of this (or was I misinformed)?

Bill
From: st0o+@andrew.cmu.edu (Steven Timm)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Album Review:  Two Hearts:  "Stand Your Ground"
Date: 28 Aug 92 13:38:18 GMT
Organization: Doctoral student, Physics, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

The group Two Hearts is composed of Michael and Carrie Hodge, who evidently 
are husband and wife.  Carrie sings lead vocals, Michael does backup
vocals and guitar.  They write or co-write most of their own songs. 
Doing his usual mix of producing, mixing, writing, and playing drums is
producer Brian Tankersley.  It shouldn't surprise you then that the
musical style is 
equivalent to early Kim Boyce stuff, although the words are a little deeper.

Some of the songs are OK, such as "Are You Ready", and the title cut
"Stand Your Ground."  Others, such as "Heaven Help Me" are boring and
overworked, made worse since the song is on the album twice and is even
more boring in extended instrumental mix.

This album has a money-back guarantee from Sparrow.  While I don't plan
to use it, I suspect many people will.  If you're buying this album,
I would suggest listening to several songs on the demo.  I listened to 
one of the good songs and got fooled.

Steve's rating:  1.5 thistles on a scale of -5 to 5
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: djm@eng.umd.edu (David J. MacKenzie)
Subject: Re: TANGENT: Christianity and art
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 92 22:29:39 GMT
Organization: Project GLUE, University of Maryland
	<1992Sep1.151957.3254@cbnews.cb.att.com> <87594@netnews.upenn.edu>
	<1992Sep1.200954.16453@cbnews.cb.att.com>

God created chaos too.  There's a whole discipline -- chaos theory --
attempting to characterize fluid and gas motion, such as in moving water
or the weather.

Of course, God created beautiful chaos.  My family recently returned from
3 weeks of hiking and photographing waterfalls in national parks.  :-)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: Tom Moellering <moeller@convex.com>
Subject: Re: Word suspends Warnke sales
Originator: moeller@neptune.convex.com
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 13:33:48 GMT
Reply-To: moeller@convex.com (Tom Moellering)
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

In article <107410189@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM> rhm@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Bob Miller) writes:
>Just noted in CCM "In The News" that Word has "suspended" sale of all Warnke 
>"product". Why they "flip-flopped" is beyond me, unless [warning: Bob's cyn-

My impression was that it was the secular media's (e.g. Herald Leader) criticism
of Warnke as well as the IRS' revoking of his tax-exempt status that brought
about their decision.  (i.e. purely business, nothing spiritual)

I get the feeling that they didn't care about the Cornerstone allegations,
but when it comes to business allegations, well, lawyers are the modern day
prophets:  without respect in their own country, but highly listened to ;-)

--
Tom (moeller@convex.com)
  "It was the foolish dream of children, it was the childish dream of fools."
	Children's Crusade / Tonio K. / notes from the lost civilization
From: lmc@cs.cornell.edu (Linda Marie Competillo)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: TANGENT: Is sarcasm appropriate for Christians?
Date: 2 Sep 92 18:02:08 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.1992Sep2.180208.28467
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853

In article <sbb1.715440865@Ra.MsState.Edu> sbb1@Ra.MsState.Edu (Shay B. Berthelson) writes:
>On the subject of Sarcasim.
>
>I don't know what the definition of sarcastic is for most people.  I am a 
>"Sarcastic" person.  But a majority of what i say is in fun or jest.  The
>statement that someone in an earlier post made about saying what you mean 
>struck me s kind of funny, because most people are overly honest when they
>are "Kidding".  This has been made clear to me through people bing sarcastic  
>and my being sarcastic.  Sasrcasm is another way at viewing a truth.  That is
>why it is funny, Because it is true.  Now in reference to a basis for and 
>sarcasm.  If you are kidding around with some one and they get their fellings 
>hurt or can think less of you as a person because of something you say, then
>you probably went to far.  
>	I will always be a kidder and probably always have a "sarcastic" tone
>to my kidding.  But I make it a habit to pay attention to responses, and am
>very careful to not go over the limit.  
>
>Shay B 
>
>--
>******************************************************************************
>** Shay B. Berthelson ******   Don't call me WHITE ***************************
>** sbb1@Ra.MsState.EDU *****   I am Danish American **************************
>******************************************************************************


The only problem with this approach is that no matter how close attention 
you pay to  responses, you can never be completely certain of the response 
on the inside of a person. In fact, most people who appear on the outside to
receive "kidding" very well are the very people who are crying and dying 
inside in response to what has been lightheartedly tossed their way.

Just a thought, but a well-founded one in my experiences in counseling with
people.

 *L*
-- 
Linda Competillo
lmc@cs.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian