HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: lydick@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Speaker-to-Minerals)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: Economics and the Environment
Date: 9 Nov 1992 05:28:18 GMT
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
Distribution: world
Reply-To: lydick@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu

In article <1992Nov9.023117.10071@midway.uchicago.edu>, eeb1@quads.uchicago.edu (e elizabeth bartley) writes:
>"Every factory will produce the same amount of pollution regardless of
>who you assign the "pollution rights" to, because the trade-off in
>paying whatever the market price is for one unit of "pollution right"
>(whether by buying that "pollution right" or by not selling that
>"pollution right") versus installing anti-pollution machines to remove
>that pollution is the same; the only difference is who has how much
>money when the factories are done buying and selling the "pollution
>rights".  However, one *does* have to assign the "pollution rights" to
>people besides the government, or there's a monopoly in "pollution
>rights", which creates all kind of difficulties."

You're forgetting the bankruptcy constraint.  If you initially grant the permit
to a factory, the factory may be able to sell off much of its pollution rights,
reduce the amount of pollution it's producing, and stay in business.  On the
other hand, if the factory is not initially given the permits, then the cost of
buying enough permits to stay in business could bankrupt it.  That's why
Coase's argument is of limited usefulness.

And there's *STILL* the fact that there's absolutely no guarantee that the
government will issue anything approaching an optimal number of pollution
permits in the first place.

>"Anyway," she continues, "I think a lot of what should be done to try
>and help the environment is to make companies pay for the damage they
>do.  I don't mean that in any vindictive sense; it's simply a fact
>that modern industry harms the environment and I'm not angry at
>industry for doing it within reason.  But one has to make the people
>who do the damage pay for doing it in order to discourage the damage;
>this is called 'internalizing the costs' and I've never yet heard an
>economist argue against it."  Beth pauses.  "And if I did, I'd
>distrust the economist instead of the principle of 'internalizing the
>costs'."

One can't make a general argument against principle;  however, in specific
instances it is possible to argue quite persuasively against particular
techniques for internalizing the externality.  The argument is generally along
the lines of "Yes, this particular plan will bring an improvement of
such-and-such an amount in this particular area.  However the costs of
implementing it are considerably greater than that."  We're back to considering
another form of transaction costs.
From: pechever@phakt.usc.edu (Paul Echeverri)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: Four Word Stories
Date: 12 Nov 1992 23:35:46 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: phakt.usc.edu

In article <1992Nov12.150931.12182@kakwa.ucs.ualberta.ca] aaron@space.ualberta.ca writes:
]Alfvaen says, "Alright, some of you have heard me claim that I'm a writer.
]Some of you have not, so for your benefit I'll claim it again here--I'm a
]writer.  Some of you have been here long enough to remember the first two
]parts of Delta City that I posted here months and months ago.  (No, I still
]haven't finished it.)
]
]"What I've been writing for the past several months have, by and large, been
]four word stories.  Basically, I get four words, either selected at random from
]a list of words, or assigned by some outside source, and then write a story
]that incorporates those four words, either directly or thematically.  It's been
]a great exercise for me, and I've gotten some great ideas that way.
[a resounding crash is heard in the Place, obscuring some of Alfvaen's words]
]"I've said enough.  Go to it!"

Impu-Sebek rummages through his backpack, grumbling, "...I know it's here
somewhere...drat...ah.  Here."  He emerges, triumphantly holding his spare
set of strings, and replaces the broken dak-note on his baliset.  He looks up
towards Mike.  "Hey Mike!  How about a Vesper over here?  And get Alfvaen
some more of whatever he's having, would you?  A foot of silver chain is on
the bar; Mike gathers it up and tosses it into the "other payments" box.
"How about this:  Dream, Delirium, Death, and Desire, without recurring
to Neil Gaiman's _Sandman_ mythos and without representing these forces as
actual entities  (As overwhelming universal forces, ok; just don't give 'em
dialogue).  I'm looking forward to seeing it.  Maybe I'll set it to music :)"

After some tuning, the baliset returns to the Place, full of polyrhythms and
mystery, a sound of sand and flame and wind and sea.
-- 
"They robbed from the rich...and gave to the CRIMINALLY INSANE!!" -Ren & Stimpy
"Necro-Bestial Anal Buttsex!?" -GWAR  /   Two suns in the sunset... -Pink Floyd
"She was SO sensitive...so I squicked her."                    DikuMUDs forever
Stop the War on Rights...legalize drugs           Email: pechever@chaph.usc.edu
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: eeb1@quads.uchicago.edu (e elizabeth bartley)
Subject: Liability
Reply-To: eeb1@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 03:57:05 GMT

In article <1992Nov3.001251.14266@ttinews.tti.com>
hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath) writes:
>In article <Bwwv71.6Mz@sti.com> alaric@sti.com (Alaric) writes:

>}... Not only that, but your nocturnal
>} intruder's family can sue you - and will probably win.

>"My Asst.  DA friends tell me such suits are rare, almost never won and
>invariably overturned on appeal when they are won.  Of course, you have to
>defend you side and that can be very costly.  The relatives of criminals
>seldom have anything worth counter-suing for."

This sort of suit is why I like the British system of making the loser
pay the attorney fees for both sides....  I suppose under those
circumstances you might not get your money back, but at least the
criminal's family would wind up paying whatever they could afford.

-- 
    Beth Bartley               Delurked -- Hi, all!
                "Kbox fall down go boom."    - Ron Levy
"He who will not reason, is a bigot; he who cannot is a fool; and he who
dares not, is a slave."                - William Drummond
From: jmpierce@whale.st.usm.edu (Jimmy Malcolm Pierce)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: Election afterthoughts
Date: 8 Nov 92 05:29:07 GMT
Organization: University of Southern Mississippi

Mentor writes:

>3.  I watched bits of Rush Lumbaugh's TV show last night.  I say "bits" because
    
       I usually gag after 10 seconds or about the time it takes me to hit
    the channel buttons on my remote control, whichever comes first.

>4.  Limbaugh went on to trot out Bush's line that the economic malaise which
>    brought down the Republicans doesn't really exist.  Duh!  Six quarters (if
>    it's that many) of negligible growth doth not a healthy economy make.  The
>    biggest and best point of Perot's infomercials was presenting the facts and
>    figures which demonstrate fundamental erosion of the economy, the utter
>    bankruptcy of "tinkle down" economics.  Creating minimum-wage service jobs
>    to replace skilled manufacturing and managerial jobs is *not* a sustainable
>    trend.

      Lumbaugh doesn't seem particularly intelligent, just prejudiced against
    anything resembling intelligent thought patterns.

>     Anyway:  My uncertainty about the future is not yet lessened, by Clinton's
>victory replaces much of my Fear with Hope.  We shall soon see if it is
>justified.
>                                      Mentor the Sage

    I have my hopes up also. Computer-related jobs are disappearing. I hope
  they are coming back as I need a better paid job than I have now. Poverty
  level is no fun !

       Later, Jim.

-- 
 Jim Pierce Bach. of Sci. in Applied Computer Science USM - Gulf Park Campus 
             jmpierce@whale.st.usm.edu  Disclaimer: Standard.
                     "Kill the Wabbit ! " Elmer Fudd.
From: ssample1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Stephen and Roo)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: Killer DM's (Was Re: Statistics)
Date: 5 Nov 92 21:12:55 GMT
Organization: Swarthmore College


					The only time (other than in Paranoia) that I've enjoyed killer GMing
or being killer GMed was in an AD&D campaign when the party had gotten
obviously out of control (read: far too powerful for the current taste of
either the players involved or the GM) but we didn't our characters' fates
to be as boring and ignominous as retirement or accession to the
emperorship, so we asked the GM to send their characters DOWN IN FLAMES!
Bwah hah hah haaah!
					IIt was actually kind of fun to see Find'l>n get killed off ;;>
QQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ
Stephen and Roo Sample
ssample1@cc.swarthmore.edu
From: eeb1@quads.uchicago.edu (e elizabeth bartley)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: Politics, PC, and other related things.
Date: 9 Nov 92 02:03:02 GMT
Reply-To: eeb1@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

Beth pops in at Callahan's for one brief moment - uh, make that one
*more* brief moment - before going off to start writing her paper (two
and a half hours late):

In article <1992Oct27.155831.21875@news.Hawaii.Edu>
saiki@mpg.phys.hawaii.edu (L. Saiki) writes:

>Well, the thing with me and my friends and "those religious people" on 
>campus here, is that there are unassuming students with big backpacks
>that go around campus in two's and peck and pester you about going to 
>their parties and joining the xian way and all that, when you are 
>innocently sitting about outside trying to have a quiet moment to 
>yourself.  

Beth chuckles.  "I grew up in Brooklyn Heights in New York City: the
world headquarters of the Jehovah's Witnesses (about ten percent of
the locals were Jehvoies.  Fortunately, they had orders to make nice
to the locals ... after all, they didn't vote; we *could* have made
quite a nuisance for them."

"Anyway, partially because of that I've been collecting Jehovah's
Witnesses stories.  The neighborhood classic is the time that Mormon
missionaries talked their way past a doorman's at a neighbor's
apartment building.  When they went knocking around on doors inside,
one of the neighbors redirected them to the Bossert Hotel -- a
dormitory for young Jehovah's Witnesses, mostly male, who spend two
years working in the printing plant for room and board and a little
spending money.  Anyway, the Mormon missionaries trotted off to the
Bossert Hotel and tried to convert some of the Jehovah's Witnesses.
This migrated into a discussion of theology and everyone had so much
fun that the Witnesses invited the Mormons back."

Beth looks down and notes that the pile of soapboxes has decreased.
She scrambles down and goes off to write a paper.

-- 
    Beth Bartley               Delurked -- Hi, all!
                "Kbox fall down go boom."    - Ron Levy
"He who will not reason, is a bigot; he who cannot is a fool; and he who
dares not, is a slave."                - William Drummond
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From:  tje3@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu
Subject: Re: More elections, a victory...
Originator: tje3@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu
Keywords: discrimination, hatred, intolerance
Reply-To: tje3@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Tammy Jo Eckhart)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 15:33:58 GMT

	WARNING:  Opinionated post.  Conservative people with high blood
pressure should avoid reading the following.

	"Yes," says the Lamplighter, "hooray for all the folks in Oregon, who
said no to such a bigoted measure."

	"However, what's not in any of the newspapers is that in Iowa, the
proposed equal rights amendment failed.  The amendment would have changed
'men' to 'men and women' in 'all men are created equal,' and it would have
prohibited the legislature from making laws that discriminated on the basis
of sex.  That's all."

	"Pat Robertson was sending letters to people in Iowa, telling them
that the amendment would lead to wives leaving their husbands and killing
their children.  Excerpts from the letter were published in the newspapers.
He was telling them that women would be encouraged to practice witchcraft and
become lesbians (oh no!).  What business is it of his, or of anyone's who
doesn't live in Iowa, for that matter?  Of the seventy thousand dollars they
had to campaign with, only eight hundred came from within Iowa."

	"Is it any wonder that I don't like the Republican party in general?
The religious right has been a factor in the party's beliefs since before I
was old enough to vote, and its role is increasing.  But I'm wandering off
my own topic."

	"At least," the Lamplighter says after sipping his drink, "they can
try again in two years.  I think it's two years."

-         -    -  - -=---------=----=--=-=#=========#====#==#=#*#########*####*
The Lamplighter             |"There's only so many times you can type 'Pat
(Tom Lee)                   | Buchanan' into a word processor before the
tje3@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu | system crashes."                    -- Love & War
*####*#########*#=#==#====#=========#=-=--=----=---------=- -  -    -         -
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: arsmith@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Alan Smith)
Subject: Re: More elections, a victory?
Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1992 03:14:24 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523

In article <JBrandt-061192130808@aaa.uoregon.edu> JBrandt@AAA.UOregon.EDU (Jay Brandt (Thyra)) writes:
>In article <Nov05.055336.56426@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU>,
>arsmith@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Alan Smith) wrote:
>> Big Al puts down his glass, undrunk.
>> The victory was NOT complete.
>> Big Al.  Ft. Collins, CO.
>
>Thyra walks over to Big Al. "Too true. The measure that succeeded in
>Colorado was not as strongly worded as Measure 9 in Oregon, but was no less
>hateful, as I understand it. Damn! Why can't people learn to live together
>peacefully?"

"That," Big Al muses, "Would make a good Quest.  The search for peaceful
getting along.

"The zoologist in me says that humans tend to form tribes, and that these
tribes compete among themselves in a simple selectionistic way. But you'd
think we could all be one big tribe, huh?"

>"Hug?"
You bet your body parts!

"Thanks, I needed that."

Big Al.  Who is NOT a tribe all by himself!  No matter what anybody says.
From: rich@theophilus.msfc.nasa.gov (Rich Krum)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Krum Invasion--
Date: 13 Nov 92 16:23:07 GMT
Reply-To: rich@theophilus.msfc.nasa.gov
Organization: Boeing Computer Support Services

The Troll notes with pleasure that his eldest son has arrived at the bar.

Obviously the CALTECH machines were able to let him into the network
with a news server.

Boy, talk about confirming Troll as a codger before one and all--

--troll

---
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"My opinions are my own, and my employer (Boeing Computer Support Services)
 denies any responsibility for me, all opinions in general, and anything 
 I may say, do, or be otherwise associated with outside of work for them.
 -- Use at your own risk, your mileage may vary, no news is good news."

 E-MAIL REPLY TO:  rich@troll1.msfc.nasa.gov     PLEASE KEEP IT "G" RATED
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: steve@crc.ricoh.COM (Stephen R. Savitzky)
Subject: Re: can anyone hear me?
Organization: RICOH California Research Center
Date: 12 Nov 92 09:29:35

"Feather! You're back!"  The Mandelbear goes over and gives her a hug.
--
\ --Steve Savitzky--  \    343 Leigh Ave   \ REAL HACKERS USE AN AXE!
 \ steve@crc.ricoh.COM \ San Jose, CA 95128 \     Free Cyberia!
  \ w: 415-496-5710     \   h:408-294-6492   \ 
   \_________________________________________________________________________
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: Invisible Feathers
From: olson@husc8.harvard.edu (Chip Olson@somewhere.out.there)
Date: 11 Nov 92 00:03:48
Organization: Spam-On-A-Rope Inc.
In-reply-to: li@Data-IO.COM's message of Tue, 10 Nov 1992 20:29:27 GMT

In article <1992Nov10.202927.7153@data-io.com> li@Data-IO.COM (Phyllis Rostykus) writes:

>"Drat." she says, rubbing the water out of her eyes, and then looks around
>at the Callahan's folks.  "I couldn't find it.  Could someone post the
>mail addresses by which someone can post to a group by mail, again?  I
>know that they were in Nick's intro to the Place, but I don't have them
>anymore, as I don't use 'em anymore.  Folks could use that if they have
>email."

If I recall correctly, it's newsgroup_name@ucb.berkeley.edu, replacing 
the .'s in the name with _'s, so in our case, alt_callahans@ucb.berkeley.edu
would get here.

--
-Chip Olson. | olson@husc.harvard.edu | ceo@{gnu.ai,silver.lcs}.mit.edu 
"Yes, to dance beneath the diamond sky with one hand waving free, silhouetted
by the sea, circled by the circus sands, with all memory and fate driven deep 
beneath the waves; let me forget about today until tomorrow"  -Bob Dylan.

Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: keulen@possum.csu.murdoch.edu.au (Mike van Keulen)
Subject: Re: FOOD FIGHT !!! (Re: Oh Yeah)
Organization: Murdoch University
Date: 13 Nov 92 01:27:05 GMT

olson@husc8.harvard.edu (Chip Olson@somewhere.out.there) writes:

>>JBrandt@AAA.UOregon.EDU (Jay Brandt (Thyra)) writes:
>>
>>>She takes out another amulet and puts it on, and offers others to Susan,
>>>Liralen and Bear. "Does anybody else want a protective amulet? All it does
>>>is make messy stuff rebound on the caster. But these things -won't- stop
>>>peanuts or other stuff that won't hurt or mess up the wearer."

>"Will they stop fungus and dairy products?  Been hungering for a mushroom
>and cheese amulet lately..."

"Aarrggghhh!" Splash cries out in agony at Chip's awful pun.  "Here - have
some peanuts as a stopgap measure!" Tossing a bowl of peanuts at Chip,
Splash scurries off to the kitchen, from where clattering and sizzling
noises are heard.  A few seconds later he emerges with a steaming omelette
(fastest omelette in the West! - well, this is VR :-) ), takes aim and
<SPLAT!>, leaves Chip rueing his passion for mushroom and cheese omelettes.

Splash!

--
***************************** Michael van Keulen *************************** 
* Snail: School of BES - Biology         e-mail: keulen@murdoch.edu.au     *
*        Murdoch University              phone:  ++ 61 (09) 360-2843 (work)*
*        Murdoch WA 6150  AUSTRALIA              ++ 61 (09) 417-3902 (home)*
*************************** "To Love is to _LIVE_!" ************************
Organization: Sophomore, Mechanical Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Date: Fri,  6 Nov 1992 13:15:58 -0500 
From: Mark Beirne Lively <ml5a+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: RAPTURE
	<brumby.721023945@nella3.cc.monash.edu.au>

Excerpts from netnews.alt.callahans: 6-Nov-92 Re: RAPTURE Stephen
McNamara@nella3. (677)

>    Sometimes the brumby can't help himself.

> hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath) writes:
> > lsaiki@nyx.cs.du.edu (Me again!) writes:
> >}"Yow!!  Did you see what happened in Korea?!  There were people who
> >}sold almost all of their possessions to the church?!! ..Because the
> >}coming of christ [or something like that] was supposed to happen
> >}there..."
> >They _sold_ their possessions to the church?  What did they expect to do
> >with the money?

>    "Ummm, turn it into travellers cheques and take it with them?"

Hmm Could they be buying salvation.  "Every penny in the plate is a
minute less you wait"  Salvation for Sale.  I can see an entire industry
here give us your money and we will garuntee salvation.  It you are not
perfectly satisfied with your afterlife come to us for a full refund
plus 10%.  (sorry no relatives or proxies)  Or even better you could
start your own religion.  Thew worship of me.  get followeres adn a
building and crib some passages from other holy books.  You'll make a
killing.

	:)  for the sarcasm impaired.  I Really am a very religious person but
the hypocrits get to me.  If you are going to be taking peoples money,
be honest about it. 

-I remember the the glory days when we sat with the king.
Dining on meh yams and washing it down with red rum.
ML5A@andrew.cmu.edu Bear aka the Lord High Rulebender
Organization: Sophomore, Mechanical Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 19:41:14 -0500 
From: Mark Beirne Lively <ml5a+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: God and Science: The Ramblings of The Nightstalker
	<1dnmvgINNq9n@gap.caltech.edu>
Distribution: world

Excerpts from netnews.alt.callahans: 10-Nov-92 Re: God and Science: The
R.. Speaker-to-Minerals@SOL1 (5169)

> Please, then, tell me:  Where are the four corners on a sphere?  How does one
> erect a tent over a sphere?  And don't start with the bullshit line about "only
> parts of the Bible are literally true" unless you can give an operational
> technique for figuring out which are literally true and which are metaphorical.


	The four courners expressing in spherical coordiantes are (0 <= Phi <=
pi, 0<= Theat <= 2 pi, 0<= Rho <= Radius)  (0,(anything),R)
(pi,(anything),R) (pi/2,0,R) ((ANything), (Anything), 0)  There are two
more corners  expressing the other absolute extreme of Theta and Rho
except they overlap with (pi/2,0,R).  The position of this common corner
is fairly arbitary and can be anyplace along the Equator.  And to erect
a tent over a sphere.  Make a cloth bag with a slightly greater radius
Put it around the sphere (Eathr I assume) and inflate.  The Gravity of
the sphere will center it.

Excerpts from netnews.alt.callahans: 10-Nov-92 Re: God and Science: The
R.. Speaker-to-Minerals@SOL1 (5169)

> fall.  According to the doctrine of "original sin," we're already doing time
> for that decision.  So does that mean we now have the right to use our
> intelligence?


	That is only according to that doctrine which I think is only prominant
in the catholic church.  There are other denominations where it doesn't
matter.

Excerpts from netnews.alt.callahans: 10-Nov-92 Re: God and Science: The
R.. Speaker-to-Minerals@SOL1 (5169)

> Of course, there are other, conflicting religions that make similar claims.
> What makes Christianity so special that it should believed instead of one of
> the other superstitions?


	Nothing much really.  Unless you take the miracles as fact or at least
close to fact.  Some of them are fairly well documented and the
conversion of Paul is one of them.

Excerpts from netnews.alt.callahans: 10-Nov-92 Re: God and Science: The
R.. Speaker-to-Minerals@SOL1 (5169)

> Does it matter that some father figure in the sky said that it's bad?  For that
> matter, where in the Bible does it say that rape is bad?  Isn't it just as good
> to take a little bit of responsibility for your own actions and declare that
> it's bad without having to invoke a mythological figure to butress your claim?


	Not Really.
	Yes In Deuteronomy and a few other places.  It is made as a special
case of no premarital sex.
	Yes.

-I remember the the glory days when we sat with the king.
Dining on meh yams and washing it down with red rum.
ML5A@andrew.cmu.edu Bear aka the Lord High Rulebender
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: lsaiki@nyx.cs.du.edu (Me again!)
Subject: Hi Space Cadet!  (was Re: Speed of US Snail)
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 07:04:20 GMT

In article <RuXuTB1w165w@xocolatl.com> eoin@xocolatl.com writes:
>Once took a letter 3 weeks to go to PO Box in the building I mailed
>it in.

Weeeelll...this is along more international lines...but I received
a postcard from Italy postmarked x6 [26th I think!] of September 1992
and received it on 10 Nov 1992!  I am happy that it reached me the 
same year and all...but............

ANYWAY it  still made me REALLY happy to receive it and I am eternally
grateful! =)   yay!

The news server is still down in Hawaii for alt.callahans....

Spacey....
saiki@mpg.phys.hawaii.edu