From: wmack@en.ecn.purdue.edu (William J Mack)
Subject: Re: UGF/RUGF and nitrates
Followup-To: rec.aquaria
Summary: Heres what just happened to me...
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 92 20:04:30 GMT

In article <1992Dec11.164851.12927@bsu-ucs>, 01mbmccabe@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu writes:
> > 	There has been a lot of talk recently about RUGF vs UGF etc.  In one
> > of the articles someone mentioned that after a while so much crud builds up
> > under the UGF that the UGF basically becomes a nitrate generator.
> > 
> > 	Well, my 40G marine has been running great for 4 1/2 years with a
> > UGF.  Recently I had a major outbreak of hair algae.  Now I have not been in
> > the habit of testing for nitrates (I am now though :>) so when I tested for
> > them during the outbreak I was shocked when they exceeded the test scale
> > (> 50 PPM).
> > 
> > 	I immediately performed a 40% water change. And upped my water changes
> > to 10% weekly instead of 20% monthly.  I cleaned out all the algae and vacuumed
> > extensively and things seemed okay for about 4 weeks.  Now It's baaaaaaack!
> > 
> > 	I have purchased a nitrate test and performed a MAJOR cleaning.  I 
> > removed all ornaments and stirred the gravel to release the detrius sucked it
> > out and changed 20% of the water.  I have done this for the last two days and
> > the gravel is pretty clean (i.e. not much crud when I stir it up)  However,
> > the nitrate level has only come down a small amount (at least it is on the
> > scale now around 40 - 50 PPM).
> > 
> > 	My question is will a few more days of massive cleaning and water
> > changes help or I am screwed due to the crud under the UGF?  Is there anything
> > I can do?  One idea I had was to borrow my neighbors magnum and place the
> > intake into one riser tube and the return line into the other riser.  My hope
> > is that the crud will be loosened and forced into the magnum.  Any feelings on
> > this,  Any other suggestions short of tearing the tank down and starting over?
> 
> How about using a peice of 1/4" (or so) air-line tubing to siphoin out what's
> under the UGF plate?  Sounds like it should work pretty well with minimal
> effort.   Lemme know if it works!
> 
> 				-Matt

Well, all the talk about UGF/RUGF got me thinking about what was under my UGF
plate.  I have had the bubble powered UGF going for a little over a year now
in my 20 gal freshwater tank.  My nitrates were exceeding 140 ppm easilly, 
probably way beyond that since water changes didnt seem to do anything.
I finally dug out the credit card and bought 2 penguin 660s with the reverse
flow attachments.  I decided that I would break down the tank, clean under the
UGF before I dared to fire up the reverse flow.  I am sure a 40 gallon tank
would be more difficult to break down but as far as my 20 gal -- it was a
piece of cake.  I siphoned out half of the 20 gal into a 10 gal tank and the
rest went into a container as well as all the gravel.  Then came the big 
moment, lifting out the plates!  To my suprise, there was no gunky, slimy
type of buildup at all under the plates but not to my suprise, the bottom 
was absolutly full of detritus.  I simply rinsed it all out and set the tank
back up.  During the whole process I replaced about 2.5 gallons of water,
my powerheads have been running for 3 days now and I just checked the nitrates
....80 ppm!!! Quite a reduction considering only 2.5 gallons of water have
been replaced.  I expect that number will drop considerably with my regular
water changes.  I had thought about trying to run a siphon tube under my plates
but the way they are made, made it impossible for me to do so.  If you are
able to get a tube down under there, I imagine it would work quite well since,
like I said, there was no slime or gunk to worry about cleaning down there --
just a hell of a lot of debris (at least for me).  One observation with the
reverse flow going, much more detritus floats around in the tank now for my
back filter to eat up.  When my 7 inch pleco (might need a bigger tank soon!)
strafes the bottom the detritus kicks right up, and some of it gets sucked
into the filter.  Anyway, I am already convinced that reverse flow is a very
worthwhile investment.  Only thing to look out for is to make sure the tank
is well oxegenated by airstone or whatever.  Good Luck.

-- 
Bill Mack                        "If you expect me to be an expert on the
School of Electrical Engineering  fundamentals while I'm asking a fundamental
Purdue University                 question....then fine, I'll pretend to be one"
Newsgroups: alt.aquaria,rec.aquaria