HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ward@sun17.vlsi.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Ward)
Subject: Re: I was going to vote yes, BUT NOW ....
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 13:34:33 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.140652.13440@sco.COM> rossw@sco.COM (Ross Wetmore) writes:
>
>  Given that civilization is an expression of the 'collective' actions of
>individuals in surrendering certain 'individual' rights in order to live
>and function cooperatively, I am surprised at the near anarchist stance of
>so many Charter junkies when discussing this piece of paper.

No that is not true.  You do not need to surrender any individual rights
in order to function co-operatively.

>  But then they are the ones that always want a big central bureaucractic 
>government to then impose their lists of 'freedoms' on everyone else, and 
>continually oppose individuality or freedom of action in any lesser authority.

What ARE you talking about?  I would like to see a federal gov't half the
present size.  As to individuality and freedom of action, any individual
should have that in so far as it does not infringe on any other individual's
rights.  Beyond that, he/she/it can do as they please.

Collective rights (such as bill 178 in Quebec) is what opposes freedom of
action (try putting up a sign is Quebec in a language other than French).
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,sci.research.careers
From: ray@philmtl.philips.ca (Ray Dunn)
Subject: Montreal news of Fabrikant - 6
Organization: On the Brew.
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 01:23:20 GMT

Transcribed without permission from the Montreal Gazette, Sat. Sept. 26th.

QUOTE

Request Denied.  'No special rights,' judge tells Fabrikant

Catherine Buckie
THE GAZETTE

Valery Fabrikant yesterday lost his bid to get a computer and laser printer
in his cell at the Parthenais Detention Centre.

Quebec Superior Court Justice Rejean Paul was categoric in his refusal of
the former university professor's demands:

"You have no, absolutely, no, special rights and this court will certainly
not intervene in the day-to-day operations of the Parthenais Detention
Centre," Paul said.

Fabrikant, 52, is currently detained awaiting his preliminary hearing on
charges of first degree murder, attempted murder and forcible confinement.

He was in court yesterday after petitioning for improved jail conditions. 
His preliminary hearing is scheduled for next Wednesday.

[...reprise paragraph omitted...]

Fabrikant said in court yesterday he committed the crimes but added moments
later that he has the right to be presumed innocent.

"A serious crime has been committed," he told Paul.

"I am the perpetrator of the crime and at the same time I am one of the
victims of the crime."

The former professor said his right to life, liberty and security as
guaranteed in the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms has been violated.

He complained that the holding cells in the courthouse are too smoky.  He
said he cannot talk on the telephone freely and cannot search for witnesses.

To support his argument, Fabrikant referred to a decision by Justice
Jean-Guy Boilard rendered in April in the case of Bill Germa, a man who
represented himself and was eventually convicted of first degree murder.

Germa was released on bail during his jury trial after he complained that
officials at Parthenais refused him access to his documents making it
impossible for him to prepare his defence.  During his trial Germa lived in
a trailer and had to remain there when he was not in court.

But Paul ruled that because Fabrikant was being treated no differently than
other inmates, his rights are not being violated.

Michel Roberge, in charge of correctional services for the Province of
Quebec, said inmates have access to paper, pencils and a small library.

But for security reasons, computers and other electronic equipment are
prohibited.

UNQUOTE


-- 
Ray Dunn at home    |    ray@philmtl.philips.ca    |    (514) 630 3749
From: jmorriso@ee.ubc.ca (John Paul Morrison)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,can.politics
Subject: Re: David Crane on the Accord
Date: 28 Sep 92 21:30:20 GMT
Organization: University of BC, Electrical Engineering

In article <BvAHox.Mq0@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca> dbowman@shade (Don A. Bowman) writes:
>Gerald Olchowy (golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca) wrote:
>: 
>: [He then goes on to suggest that fear will be the "Yes" side's
>: most effective weapon]
>: 
>
>And hatred and intolerance is the NO sides most effective and most used
>weapon.

This is bullshit, at least for BC (I think).

Maybe Ontario has its history of Quebec Flag stomping, etc. but I think BC
annoyance at Quebec goes no deeper than getting annoyed at turning packages
around to get to the English side.

-Preston Manning doesn't have a huge following out here

-BCers are annoyed at what BC didn't get out of the deal, not what
Quebec supposedly got more of.

-Mikey and the NDP are getting some backlash over his unilateral decision
on gender and the senate. Also, the NDP only got 41% of the vote, and
everyone thought the NDP would just spin the wheels for 5 years, until
a new center-right party resumes representing BC's normal political bias.

I won't discuss the merits/flaws of a gender equal senate: fact is, nobody
asked US what we thought of it.
>
>--
>Don Bowman                (519) 744-6154     dbowman@zeus.uwaterloo.ca


-- 
__________________________________________________________________________
 John Paul Morrison                     |  Just another "Enemy of Canada"
 University of British Columbia, Canada |  Say NO/NON to Constitutional
 Electrical Engineering                 |  hegemony and fear-mongering
 jmorriso@ee.ubc.ca                     |  by politicians/scum.
________________________________________|_________________________________
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,can.politics
From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
Subject: Re: Ontario "socialism"
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 19:56:02 GMT

In article <BvEEy8.r1@watdragon.uwaterloo.ca> jdnicoll@watyew.uwaterloo.ca (James Davis Nicoll) writes:
>
>	A possible problem with the voucher system is that if the number
>students  wanting to go to university greatly outnumber the supply of 
>'slots' available at universities accepting the vouchers, the mediocre
>universities will still get those students who  want  or need to university,
>but who couldn't get  accepted at the 'desirable' schools.  
>
>	Who  decides how many vouchers get issued?
>

Seems like an good business opportunity for our oversupply of
Ph.D's, and expatriate Ph.D's, who might take the entrepreneurial
jump and create new universities dedicated to quality teaching.

These small private universities would take the enrollment burden
of the "big" schools and allow them to pursue their main interest
which is research anyway.

The Canadian system is missing quality teaching-oriented colleges
which would be feeders to large research-oriented Ph.D granting
institutions.

Gerald

Xref: sparky soc.culture.canada:6932 can.politics:7386
From: dbowman@shade (Don A. Bowman)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,can.politics
Subject: Re: Ontario "socialism"
Date: 28 Sep 92 12:52:11 GMT
Organization: University of Waterloo
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

Gerald Olchowy (golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca) wrote:
: 
: Quebec is a have not province, of whom around 10% of their provincial
: budget is equalization payments, (half of that 10% comes from
: taxpayers in BC, Alberta, and Ontario).  Luckily, Quebec has someone
: to receive equalization payments from...will Ontario be so lucky
: when it becomes a have not province under the NDP.
: 

Where did you get these figures?

--
Don Bowman                (519) 744-6154     dbowman@zeus.uwaterloo.ca
From: uctlxpd@ucl.ac.uk (Peter Bartlett)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
Subject: Re: Canada's country code?
Date: 26 Sep 92 16:32:50 GMT
Organization: Bloomsbury Computing Consortium

carlos@garfield.cs.mun.ca (Carlos Borges) writes:

>Anyone know what Canada's "Country Code" is?
>If I was in Europe, for example, and I wanted to call Canada,
>what would the code be?  Does this differ from country to country?
>Or is there a "Standard" country-code list somewhere?
>-- 
>   ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
>  // C. Miguel Borges               A.K.A.                Carlos M. Borges //
> // an630@cleveland.freenet.edu                 carlos@garfield.cs.mun.ca //
>///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Both Canada and the US share the code 1.  If in the UK, dial O10-1-[area
code]-[number].

peter.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,can.politics,can.general
From: ward@sun17.vlsi.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Ward)
Subject: Re: I was going to vote yes, BUT NOW ....
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 22:30:26 GMT

In article <1992Oct1.170734.3547@pandora.matrox.com> thood@corvus.matrox.com (Thomas Hood) writes:

>There is some truth to that.  The state or "the collectivity" has the right to
>make demands of the individual.  Taxation is a collective right.  Such rights
>are implicit in every governing regime, democratic or totalitarian.

No, it need not be viewed as the collective making a demand on the individual.
It may just as easily be viewed as a contract between the individual and
the gov't that the individual will pay a certain amount in exchange for which
the individual will receive protection of his/her individual rights (after
all, someone has to pay the policeman).

>I do not think the Charter is too strong.  McCarthy is as much a threat
>as Zundel... except that he's dead. :-)

Indeed, gov't can become the biggest criminal of all.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,can.politics
From: iaf@cl.cam.ac.uk (Innes Ferguson)
Subject: Re: Royal Bank hypocrisy and the Telecommunications Sellout
Reply-To: iaf@cl.cam.ac.uk (Innes Ferguson)
Organization: U of Cambridge, England
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 13:36:10 GMT

dbowman@rainbow (Don A. Bowman) writes:

>Gerald Olchowy (golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca) wrote:
>: Posted without permission...
>: ...from the Globe and Mail, October 2, 1992: page B2:
>
>[Rest of plagiarised article deleted] 
>
>Is there no rules regarding theft of intellectual property and the Net?
>People who wish to read the Globe and Mail can buy it. Why not simply say,
>"There was an interesting article in Oct 2 G+M, here is what I like about
>it..." rather than typing in page after page without adding anything
>yourself?

Three things:

(i) You obviously don't know what "plagiarism" means; it means to copy the
ideas or words of another and pass them off as one's own (like I'm doing
now with my trusty unnamed dictionary). Gerald quoted his source so he is
not, by any definition (other than perhaps yours), plagiarising.

(ii) Not all of us have easy access to the Globe and Mail. The nearest
place I can get it is in London, over an hour away. I, as a result,
appreciate such postings and would encourage (and am thankful to) people
like Gerald for posting them.

(iii) Gerald's posting of articles add more to the ongoing discussion 
than your criticisms of his postings.

Cheers... Innes
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
From: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Subject: Re: Appointments to the Supreme Court
Reply-To: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Organization: The Bates Motel
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 20:01:50 GMT

wetmore@theochem.uwaterloo.ca (Ross W. Wetmore) writes:
>
>  The PM can refuse all name presented by the premiers, it is in the 
>accord.
>
>  There is no provision stating 3 judges must come from Ontario in 
>anything I have seen, and the provision as regards Quebec is that 
>'three must have been admitted to the bar of Quebec (civil law bar)'.

I think we went through this once before with Meech, so I'll add ...
a lawyer can belong to more than one provincial or American state bar
association.  There's nothing that could prevent Quebec from naming a
U. of Toronto law professor who happens to be an expert on civil law
and member of the Quebec Bar.  A large number of Canadian LL.M.
students that I've met here at Columbia went to McGill explicitly
to learn civil law and join the Quebec bar, even though they want
to live in Manhattan or Toronto or Vancouver (or even Europe).  It
just helps their career especially for handling cases that go by
Quebec jurisdiction.

gld
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Je me souviens ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gary L. Dare				
> gld@cunixB.cc.columbia.EDU		Oct 26/92: Just say "OUI!"
> gld@cunixc.BITNET			(Let's worry about the economy!)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,can.politics,can.general
From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
Subject: Re: How I'm Voting on Oct. 26
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 13:59:44 GMT

In article <28SEP92.09970283.0063@VM1.MCGILL.CA> CZ94@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA (CZ94) writes:
>In article <1992Sep26.162139.22848@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca> golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy) writes:
>>In article <Bv635s.1IJ@watdragon.uwaterloo.ca> jdnicoll@watyew.uwaterloo.ca (James Davis Nicoll) writes:
>>>
>>> Does the  equivalent of witholding one's vote exist for the
>>>Oct 26 event? I will default to a no vote if the legal text is not
>>>available and witholding is also not an option.
>>>
>>There is no "neither"...spoiling your ballot or abstaining is the
>>moral equivalent of a yes vote.
>
>Why?
>

I guess I am speaking more in relation to the Canadian referendum
rather than the Quebec one.

I would argue that unless you explicitly express opposition to the
Accord and the process by which it was reached, it is the "moral"
equivalent of approval of what the politicians are doing.

>>They will only count "yes" and "no"...one might figure they might
>>mention the number of spoiled ballots, but those will be viewed
>>as a reluctant "yes"...but a "yes" nevertheless.
>
>Viewed by whom?  Are yu seriously suggesting that if 35 % of the
>electorate vote "yes", 40 % vote "no", and 25 % stay home, then
>Mulroney & Co. will claim that the "yes" has won, 60-40?  What's
>the basis for your assertion?

"Viewed" does not meaned counted..."No" voters will tend to be
more motivated...perhaps not in Quebec, but in the rest of Canada.

I expect that if "No" wins, the "Yes" side will begin pointing at
the turnout figures, and begin whining.

Gerald
Xref: sparky soc.culture.canada:7045 can.general:4676 talk.politics.misc:48706
From: guest@veronica.cs.wisc.edu (Guest account)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,can.general,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Bank incompetence! (Was: Doesn't *everybody*?)
Date: 30 Sep 92 18:04:48 GMT
Organization: U of Wisconsin Madison - Computer Sciences

steven@spxtech.qc.ca (Steve Potter) writes:
[stuff deleted]

>>> I think this is more to do with the general lack of training of bank
>>> tellers in N.A.
>>> 
>> 
>> Is this a joke? Are you really suggesting that banks should have to teach
>> tellers that Washington state is in the U.S.A.?  Wouldn't it make more
>> sense to put this instruction in the second grade where it belongs? (Foreign-
>> born tellers would be at a disadvantage, of course, but somehow I think a
>> foreign-born teller wouldn't have made this particular mistake!)  

>I'm not joking.

>I have tried several banks in the 12 years I have been here. They are 
>all guilty of hiring an alarming percentage of underqualified people and
>seem to have a hopelessly inadequate or non-existent training program.

Both banks that I've worked at had inadequate training programs.

>Some bank clerk or other screws up something on at least one of my bank
>accounts just about every month!
If banks paid clerks a decent living wage, they might care what is
going on.  At both financial institutions I've worked at, morale is
invariably low, and drug use (ON and off the job) is more the norm
than the exception, at least among the people I worked with.

>It's not the bank's responsibility to teach basic geography to their
>junior (or senior :-)) staff. As you have pointed out - this should be
>done in the school classroom. On has to question the minimum academic
>standards required for employment in financial institutions in N.A.
>One must also question the minimum training required of employees before
>being permitted to deal with customers/clients directly. Banks are _not_
>supermarkets!
True.  Banks are not supermarkets.  Supermarkets, in some cases, pay
more per hour than some banks do.  The difference between McDonald's
pay and the pay of both banks that I've been employed by is less than
50 cents/hour.

>This months goof: My bank statement shows a $5.00 charge for "branch to
>branch banking services" - I pay a standard monthly service fee which
>includes "branch to branch banking services" free. In any case, where
>do banks get off charging for "branch to branch banking services" in
>1992? They don't send couriers around with boxes of paperwork anymore
>do they?
Yes, couriers are a fact of life.  They are even lower paid than the
bank employees.
>-- 
>  ///==================================================================\\\
>  ||| Steve Potter:         steven%spxtech@CAM.ORG                     |||
>  ||| Expertise/Experience: Computer Systems Engineering / Real Ale /  |||
>  |||                       Politics in Education in Quebec            |||
Tim Petlock
guest@veronica.cs.wisc.edu (BUT, mail to that account is forwarded to
/dev/null)
reply to timdude@khan.cs.wisc.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,can.politics
From: Steve.Withers@bbs.actrix.gen.nz
Subject: Re: Royal Bank hypocrisy and the Telecommunications Sellout
Organization: Actrix Information Exchange
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 00:49:32 GMT

In article <BvIEv3.H75@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca> dbowman@rainbow (Don A. Bowman) writes:
> Gerald Olchowy (golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca) wrote:
> : Posted without permission...
> : ...from the Globe and Mail, October 2, 1992: page B2:
> 
> [Rest of plagiarised article deleted] 
> 
> Is there no rules regarding theft of intellectual property and the Net?
> People who wish to read the Globe and Mail can buy it. Why not simply say,
> "There was an interesting article in Oct 2 G+M, here is what I like about
> it..." rather than typing in page after page without adding anything
> yourself?

Hi, Don......
 
Guess what. I can't buy the Globe and Mail. If we are to debate
articles/publications, they must be quoted - with attribution made. Gerald did
this. He did not try to misrepresent the Globe's article as his own
(plagiarism). He quoted it for the purposes of dicussion and debate. The Globe
is a newspaper of record. I see nothing wrong with this and i am sure a great
many people will agree. 

No academic paper could ever be written if the ability to reproduce/reference
extracts/articles was as restricted as you seem to be suggesting. 
 
If copyright is carried to the ridiculous degree you suggest it should be,
then the very media that convey the main points in any debate to readers
become useless for purposes of debate. 
 
The Globe is NOT on every news stand in most of the countries of the world. 

Steve
 
-- 
Steve Withers - Wellington, New Zealand | On Sept. 19th, 88% of NZ voters opted
Steve.Withers@bbs.actrix.gen.nz         | for proportional representation. It
withers_s@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz            | looks like we may get a more  
**** Happy user of OS/2 v2!! ****       | democratic system "real soon now".
Xref: sparky soc.culture.canada:7108 can.politics:7760
From: audetf@Software.Mitel.COM (Francois Audet)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,can.politics
Subject: Re: Canada Clause
Date: 1 Oct 92 14:58:15 GMT
Organization: Mitel. Kanata (Ontario). Canada.

In article <1992Sep30.090719.8076@spxtech.qc.ca> steven@spxtech.qc.ca (Steve Potter) writes:
>How many justices for the aboriginal peoples would be acceptable (they have
>a different law system too) ?

No they don't.

-- 
                                                       Francois Audet
                                                           '
        Telephone: (613) 592-2121 x1754     Facsimile: (613) 592-4784
                          Internet: Francois.Audet@software.Mitel.COM
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,can.general,can.politics
From: mathew@unixg.ubc.ca (Mathew B Englander)
Subject: Availability of Charlottetown Agreement and of Legal Text
Originator: mathew@unixg.ubc.ca
Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 03:51:53 GMT

In the October 3 edition of The Globe and Mail, and of the Financial
Times (and presumably other newspapers as well), the federal government
has purchased ads giving the complete text of the Charlottetown agreement.

Also, according to a newscast I saw Joe Clark has promised to release the
legal text on or before Monday, October 12.

Mathew Englander.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
From: dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker)
Subject: Re: The Fraser Institute weighs in...
Organization: Camosun College, Victoria B.C, Canada
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 21:15:15 GMT

In article <1992Oct4.171519@ltisun14.epfl.ch> warkent@ltisun.epfl.ch writes:
>In article <1992Oct3.223600.12399@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca>, golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy) writes:
>|> I post this more with regards to BC, or Western, or Cascadian
>|> separation, and how because of growing economic self-confidence, 
>|> the far West of Canada might respond when, instead of a future
>|> populist leader crying "The West want IN"...the rallying cry
>|> will be "The West wants OUT", in response to Western underrepresentation
>|> and overtaxation, the net result of Charlottetown:
>
>The "West" and the "far West"?
>
>I think I've written this before here but as far as BC is concerned,
>the West goes from the Pacific to the Rockies, after which we find
>the Near East with its down-on-their-luck blue eyed sheiks and the
>remains of two airline companies that used to be headquartered in
>Vancouver.


How true. Incidentally aren't this Fraser Institute bunch the ones
that claimed that capitalism is 'the only *moral* (my emphasis) was to
organise human society'? I laughed 'til the tears ran down my legs.

Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept., Camosun College, Victoria B.C.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,can.politics
From: wetmore@theochem.uwaterloo.ca (Ross W. Wetmore)
Subject: Re: Globe and Mail article
Organization: University of Waterloo, Waterloo, Ontario
Distribution: can
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 17:43:25 GMT

In article <1992Sep26.020913.9763@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca> golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy) writes:
>The economic realities of separation are why we can vote NO relatively
>safely...this referendum is not a vote on sovereignty, and in Quebec
>it isn't being treated as a vote on sovereignty...it is being treated
>as a vote on a deal.  Quebeckers aren't being asked if they accept or
>reject Canada, so we shouldn't vote on the package as if they were.
>Gerald

  Others with perhaps more credibility overrule you on this one.

  Bouchard claims a YES vote will essentially kill separatism for a generation.

  Bourassa claims a NO vote will effectively move separatism to the front
burner in Quebec.

  Rational thought won't be used to decide the separatist agenda if they can
help it, and another 'rejection' will be something they will not hesitate
to exploit to the hilt.

Ross

Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,can.politics,can.general