HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dbg@natinst.com (Donny Goff)
Subject: Re: Transition Board or Short Board???
Organization: National Instruments, Austin, TX
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 17:05:14 GMT

In article <BtAH43.F4@watcgl.uwaterloo.ca> pjolicoe@watcgl.uwaterloo.ca writes:
>In article <1684810D21.EPLUS17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu> EPLUS17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu (Richard Engelbrecht-Wiggans) writes:
>>>I'm a beginning windsurfer with a 12' beginner's board.  I've
>>>become pretty comfortable with it and am looking for my next
>>>board purchase to learn more advanced skills, such as waterstarts,
>>>high wind proficiency, etc.  Some friends have suggested boards
>>>as short as 9'4", and as long as 10'6" (usually *their* old boards ;-)
>>>
>My recommendation is to go to a giant slalom (9'9" or so, with 130 to 135L
>volume).  This amount of floation is plenty to uphaul and sail in low
>winds, but can be used in much higher winds (all the way to 4.0 conditions

  Having had a lot of experience on a longboard and a transition board,
I'd like to put in a good word for transition boards.  I've thoroughly
enjoyed my Bic Samba (10'6", 33 lbs, 170 ltrs) for a couple of years now.
I can sail comfortably in anywhere from 0 to 25 mph of wind, and have
survived gusts to 30 with my 4.4 sail on it.  Although I'm not quite as 
fast as a lot of the shortboarders when it's blowing, I can pass a few of
them, especially if it's in the "marginal" wind range of 15-20 mph.
   One very nice thing about this kind of board is the daggerboard.  If it's
blowing less than 20, it's generally OK to put it down to get upwind.  With
the dagger even partway down, I can make upwind progress at an incredible 
rate, and if I hook in to do so, it's almost effortless.  Of course, the
board is generally a lot more fun with the dagger fully retracted and 
covered by the rubber gasket.
   However, if you want to tear some really nice jibes, you should probably
go with a slalom/giant slalom - I think my Samba is a good part of the 
reason I can't jibe :-).  But if the wind where you are rarely gets 
above 20-25 mph, and is more frequently in the 10-15 range (like it is
here in Austin) :-(, you might find a transition board more appropriate.
                                      --Donny
                                      A Fellow Wind-starved Windsurfer
DISCLAIMER:
  National Instruments pays me to program, not post.
-- 
"Engineers think that equations are an approximation of reality."
"Physicists think that reality is an approximation of the equations."
"Mathmeticians never make the connection."
From: mce5921@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Martin Emde)
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
Subject: Hood River Sail Advice
Date: 21 Aug 92 14:18:05 GMT
Organization: Boeing Computer Services, Seattle

I recently got a flyer from Windsurfing Express and they seem to
have some reasonable prices on their Hood River I & II sails (~$150).

Does anyone out there have any experience with these sails?  If so
I would like to know, good or bad.  And by the way, is Windsurfing
Express a reputable dealer?

Thanks in advance.

-Martin
From: jmunro@wyse.wyse.com (Jim Munro x2497)
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
Subject: Re: Santa Cruz Report
Date: 17 Aug 92 16:27:00 GMT
Organization: Wyse Technologies San Jose, Ca

In article <1992Aug11.104841@wsl.dec.com> gringort@wsl.dec.com (Joel Gringorten) writes:
>|> whole thing including the 13.5 inch razor sharp dagger fin right on top of him.
>			     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>Are people really using blades in the surf these days?  I haven't sailed
>the coast since my wife took up the sport.  I still carry a nasty scar on
>my bicep where my wave fin tried it's best to go thru my arm on a wipeout.
>If it was a dagger, it would probably have stuck through to the other side.
>I wouldn't use a dagger in the surf.  No way.  No how.  
>

At Natural Bridges, most people carry a glass wave board or chop hopper and an
epoxy slalom or race board. Most of the newer 'race' boards have the dagger fins.

Trevor Bailiss and his buddys plus a group of Windwing guys often launch here for
off-shore sail testing sessions. Getting out through the surf is the main trick.

Jim Munro
From: bobd@wave.Eng.Sun.COM (Bobd Dow)
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
Subject: Re: Light wind waterstarts
Date: 13 Aug 1992 17:31:10 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: wave

In article <p54mpl=.westes@netcom.com> westes@netcom.com (Will Estes) writes:
>thall@Ingres.COM (Trevor Hall) writes:
>
>>I need some help with light wind ( < 10kts ) waterstarts.  I can't seem
>>to get the sail high enough to get up onto the board.  I'm thinking it's
>>because I'm putting my foot onto the board too early, that what I really
>>need to do is fly the sail until it pulls me right next to the board, then 
>>step up.

This is my solution to the < 5kt problem:

1. Get the sail up in the air somehow.  
2. Grab the bottom of the mast with your front hand, and keep your 
   back hand on the boom.  
3. Move in close to the board, which will also allow the sail to
   approach vertical.  Push the sail to vertical if you have to.
   Now your chest is almost touching the board, your front hand is
   on the bottom of the mast, and your back hand on the boom.
4. Crawl up on the board on your *knees* and then stand up as soon 
   as you can.  You gotta use your knees because you're so close
   to the board there's no way to get a foot up close to the mast.
   The whole key is staying close to the mast so you can continue
   to maintain the sail vertical while you're struggling up.

This is extremely ugly, looks desperate, but works surprisingly well.
beats floating downswell while you're waiting for a puff.
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
From: danbrown@Psych.Stanford.EDU (Dan Brown)
Subject: Which Board to Buy?
Organization: Stanford University
Distribution: su
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 17:43:40 GMT

I'm looking to buy a board in a couple of months and want to know
what you experts think I should look into.  I'll be sailing in Miami
and the Keys, the former not usually having good wind until winter, 
the latter having much better all-year wind.  I'm probably an intermediate
windsurfer: I have about 50 hours and can do a pretty good quick jib in
moderate winds (15 mph) on a roughly 10' board.

Here's the information I'm looking for:

	i) size of the board (transition or short)
	ii) brand (I've used bic, mistral, fanatic, and o'brien;
		   I far preferred the fanatic above the rest)
	iii) mast and sail sizes
	iv) mast, sail, and boom brands

Any other relevant information would be greatly appreciated.

Please e-mail or post.

-Dan
danbrown@psych.stanford.edu

From: kirk@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Kirk Lindstrom)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 17:17:00 GMT
Subject: Re: What's the best Vehicle?
Organization: Shredding the water of SF Bay, HP-OCD
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing

>I also own a toyota tercel wagon. I use this mostly since my wife carries the
>sea urchins (our two toddlers) in the voyager on a regular basis. The tercel
>is great also. I removed the front passenger seat. This way I can carry my
>sail quiver bag and two short boards inside. I also carry all my other gear
>such as the junk bag with all the small accessories. It works out great for
>me since I can use the tercel to work and play while the voyager is used
>for longer trips and family "bringalongs".
>-- 
>Felix Cabral         {felixc@mtgzfs3.att.com}      "Give me nukin winds,
>----------
I bet you also get great gas mileage compared to the 16 mpg I get with my
full sized van.  I figure it takes 5 gallons of gas for me to do the 
work-Coyote Pt-home loop which I do (when healthy) 3 times a week.  I
imagine a Tercel would use about 1/2 that.

Kirk (hoping gas taxes don't go up too high) out
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
From: sfroelic@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Stephan E Froelich)
Subject: Moving to CORPUS CRISTI, Tx
Organization: The Ohio State University
      I'll be moving to Corpus Cristi , Tx in September !
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 21:30:48 GMT

     I'm interested in :
          1: Contacting people who live there !
          2: Wind conditions throughout the year !!
          3: Companies who might hire an experienced engineer !!!
          4: Companies to work for until I get that "real Job"
          5: Information on Winter Storms, How Cold, How severe, How Soon.

     I was there for 2 weeks in April, and was to busy windsurfing to
     find out all the things I should have.
Thanks ,
Stefan
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
From: leo@wk69.nas.nasa.gov (Leo Dagum)
Subject: Ladies Shortie Wetsuit for sale
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 20:05:31 GMT
Distribution: ba


I have an O'Neil, ladies shortie wet suit, size medium (O'Neill size 12), 
2mm/1mm thick.  Pink with yellow trim, good for windsurfing or going in 
the ocean here in the summer.  I originally got it for my girlfriend, 
but she didn't care for the water too much.  It's been used maybe twice.  
Should fit someone between 5'5" and 5'8" and medium build. 

Original cost was $130, I'm asking $75

Leo Dagum
(415) 604-4779  (9:00-6:00)
(415) 508-8369  (otherwise)
leo@nas.nasa.gov
From: navid@synoptics.com (Navid Razavi)
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
Subject: Re: Hood River Sail Advice
Date: 22 Aug 92 01:16:34 GMT
Reply-To: navid@synoptics.com
Organization: Synoptics Inc. Santa Clara, California.

>I recently got a flyer from Windsurfing Express and they seem to
>have some reasonable prices on their Hood River I & II sails (~$150).
>
>Does anyone out there have any experience with these sails?  If so
>I would like to know, good or bad.  And by the way, is Windsurfing
>Express a reputable dealer?
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>-Martin

I have the same catalog and  looking for a 4.4 sail.
I couldn't decide  between Hood River II or F2  Wave Slalom Sails(~160$).
I have a two piece  flex ART mast.. I give lots of down haul to my Fanatic Sails.
Are you suppose to give lots of down haul to Hood River /F2 Sails?
BTW, Hood River Sail comes with single camber for sails less than 5.0.
F2 comes with 2 removable cambers and  "Duo batten systems".(What  does it mean?!) 

Friend of mine got an Ultra  RAT for 647$ from Widsurf Express. And
he is happy with his purchase.

Navid
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
From: westes@netcom.com (Will Estes)
Subject: Re: Light wind waterstarts
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 21:10:30 GMT
Organization: Mail Group

thall@Ingres.COM (Trevor Hall) writes:

>I need some help with light wind ( < 10kts ) waterstarts.  I can't seem
>to get the sail high enough to get up onto the board.  I'm thinking it's
>because I'm putting my foot onto the board too early, that what I really
>need to do is fly the sail until it pulls me right next to the board, then 
>step up.

First, I think it's a legitimate question to ask whether a waterstart
can even be done consistently in such borderline wind.  Certainly you
will need a big sail.

My light wind waterstarts are getting decent, and the technique I use is
something like this:

1) Place the forward foot onto the board first, close to the mast.  This
places your weight near the center of the board, where it is less likely
to round the board into the wind.  

2) Try to press down with the foot rather than to the side.  This maximizes 
the board's resistance to the pressure you apply with the foot.  

3) After the initial kick up with the foot you will be slightly elevated 
for just an instant with nothing to hold you up.  At this instant move 
the boom so that the mast is as close to perpendicular as you can get it 
(it will never get perpendicular, of course).  

4) At some point it will be straight up enough so that you can then pull down
strongly on the boom and transfer the force of that pull onto the mast
foot and the board itself.  This raises you up further.

5) You alternate kicks up with pulls on an increasingly perpendicular
mast.  

So it might go:  kick up, pull up, kick once more, pull once more.

Will Estes                Internet: westes@netcom.com
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,chi.general,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: kadie@herodotus.cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie)
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 16:32:39 GMT

In <1992Aug21.110428.10268@m.cs.uiuc.edu> kadie@herodotus.cs.uiuc.edu
(Carl M. Kadie) writes:

>I am disgusted to read that the United Way of Suburban Chicago will
>now support racially and religiously discriminatory programs.
>According to Eric Zorn's column on August 16, the suburban United
>Way's new "antidiscrimination" policy says that groups "organized by,
>on behalf of, or to serve persons of a particular race, religion, sex,
>national origin" are now eligible for funding.

palane@iastate.edu (Paul A. Lane) writes:

>Claiming that Jews are equivalent to atheists is morally reprehensible. Along
>with Islam, Judaism and Christianity both come out of the Abrahamic tradition.
>At least you could use a religion that is not tied to the Old Testament as
>your example.

I did not claim any equivalence between groups. What I said was that
the new United Way of Suburban Chicago "antidiscrimination" policy has
been changed to allow support of programs that discriminate against
blacks and Jews. What I said was true. Their phrasing posted above.

>You evidently believe that no non-profit religious organization (or any
>organization with religious ties) deserves any support from private busi-
>ness (or, evidently, anyone else). Presumably, support for AA is out the
>window. Catholic charities is quite obviously discrminatory. I imagine that
>I could find dozens of organizations whose ties render them incompatible
>with your standards. 

You are wrong about Catholic charities (and most other charities).
Their UW-supported charity programs are not limited to Catholics; they
are open to all in need without regard to religious belief, race, etc.

You make it sound as though the United Way gives money to the general
fund of churches. It doesn't; it only gives (BSA excepted) to specific
charity program that benefit people without discrimination. Moreover,
churches don't expect or ask for general fund money from the UW.

Under the old United Way charter, if the BSA started a soup kitchen
program, that program would be eligible for United Way funds (assuming
it did not discriminate on the basis of race, religion, sexual
orientation, etc). Under the new charter of the UW of Suburban
Chicago, not only is the general BSA program (which does discriminate
against atheist and gay scouts) eligible, but so is general KKK
program which discriminates against Jews and African Americans.

There are only three possibilities:
  1) the old charter: the BSA general program is not eligible
  2) the new charter of the UWSC: the KKK general program is eligible
  3) some newer charter which includes the BSA and excludes the KKK

My question is, is an acceptable newer charter really possible?
 
- Carl
--
Carl Kadie -- kadie@cs.uiuc.edu -- University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination
From: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee)
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Organization: Johns Hopkins University CS Dept.
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 06:04:25 GMT

In article <1992Aug23.005815.15343@microsoft.com> johnhall@microsoft.com (John Hall) writes:
>| And now the challenge: Can you suggest a policy that would include the
>| BSA while excluding the KKK? 
>A prohibition on funding for groups that discriminated on the
>basis of race or advocated such.

What about, say, a group that let in blacks but still preached hatred of Jews?
Can you suggest a policy that would do so here?
--
"the bogosity in a field equals the bogosity imported from related areas, plus
the bogosity generated internally, minus the bogosity expelled or otherwise
disposed of."  -- K. Eric Drexler

Ken Arromdee (UUCP: ....!jhunix!arromdee; BITNET: arromdee@jhuvm;
     INTERNET: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: kati@glnserv.UUCP (Lady Dragon)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: HELP- History of Scout Promise  
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 09:11:10 CDT
Organization: Vermi-net, Houston, Tx. 77098

johnw@psychnet.psychol.utas.edu.au (John Wanless) writes:
> I haven't heard from anyone regarding the Scout Promise info, either a lot
> of people don't know the history of it like me or perhaps thought that the
> question has been answered.I would still like to know the above if possible,
> the Scout promise as we in Australia know it is as follows,
> On my honour,
> I promise that I will do my best,
> To do my duty to my God and
> To the Queen of Australia,
> To help other people,and
> To live by the Scout Law.

I'll see what I can find out here on it.
If possible, I'd like to find out more information on both scouting and
Australia, as my husband and I hope to be moving there in about 10 years
or so. May we ask some questions of you about it? I tried to get
SOC.AUSTRALIA  but the person who gets the Net for us, doesn't carry it.
thanks.

* * email address: nuchat!xcluud!glnserv!kati * Houston, Texas, USA, Earth * *




Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: kahn@emav131.webo.dg.com (Mike Kahn)
Subject: Re: Wearing Eagle Badge & Medal
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 92 20:37:47 GMT
Reply-To: kahn@emav131.webo.dg.com (Mike Kahn)
Organization: Data General Corporation, Westboro, MA

In article <1992Aug17.133254.17282@eng.umd.edu>, wayne@eng.umd.edu
(Wayne C. McCullough) writes:
> Does anyone out there know of the guidelines for wearing the
> eagle badge and/or medal?  In particular, can an eagle 18yrs
> or older wear the medal at cerimonies?
> 
> In my troop, it is customary for everyone who recieved the badge in
> the troup (ie, non-parents) to wear the medal at cerimonies (esp eagle
> COH), even if they are over 18.  Only those under 18 wear the badge.
> 
> W
> 

As far as I understand it the eagle patch is to be worn by Scouts (i.e.
under the age of 18).  The knot is to be worn by Scouters and the medal
can be worn by any Eagle Scout at any age for a special occasion (courts
of honor, Silver Beaver awards ceremonies, etc.)  Of course this is coming
off the top of my head and not out of any book so I could be wrong...

MIKE KAHN -------  kahn@emav131.webo.dg.com
EAGLE SCOUT
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: hellmann@cs.scarolina.edu (Douglas R Hellmann)
Subject: Re: Scoutin past
Organization: USC  Department of Computer Science
Distribution: usa
Date: 14 Aug 92 13:37:39 GMT

rchafetz@cephalo.neusc.bcm.tmc.edu (Ross Chafetz) writes:

>So what memories would I liked shared.  Well, I know that hazing is
>baned from scouting in general.  And I do not approve of it, but as a
>scout there was always some light hazing going on.  Here is some of
>the hazing I remember

>Walking from campsite to campsite looking for a left handed
>smoke shifter (a classic) or 1000 ft of shore line

I was at a camporee once when someone actually made a left-handed smoke
shifter.  It was made out of a couple of pieces of wood and some tin foil, and
you couldn't hold it right with your right hand.  That went over
really well when a kid came around looking for one ("There's a sucker
born every minute...").  We sent him back with this contraption that
looked something like a hand fan, but of course you could only use it
with your right hand.  It was the talk of the camporee for the rest of
the day!

>And another classic the snipe hunt (which was featured on a Cheers
>show).  I remember having the shit scared out of me from a creature that
>did not exist.  But my Senior Patrol leader said I was real close to
>catching one.  They're even suppose to taste great.

I had snipe once.  It was a little stringy, but I am told that was
because it was an older male snipe, and you want the young females.
;-)

>I know I was victim of other stuff, but I do not remember.  If there
>are other experiences I would like to hear them.  I do not want to hear
>stories of kids being spiteful or outright mean to other scouts (you
>know stuff within the bounds of scouting spirit)

Spitefulness has no place in Scouting, but a little fun now and then
never hurt anyone...

Doug Hellmann
hellmann@cs.scarolina.edu
From: gascan@dcst16.dc (Bill Gascoyne)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: <None>
Date: 19 Aug 92 20:07:29 GMT
Reply-To: gascan@dcst16.dc
Organization: LSI Logic Corporation

In article 5102@sj.nec.com, brahms@delaware.tdd.sj.nec.com (George Skillman  x2921) writes:
>
>Suppose the BSA discriminated on the basis of race and people bogged this
>newsgroup down with articles condemning this.  Would you still be so
>eager to ignore the issue?  Is it that you don't care about others
>being discriminated against or is it because you think gays/atheists deserve
>it?  What do you think modern day opinions are about people in the previous
>generation who never gave a thought about racism or felt that it was
>justified?  Do you think your scouts will feel the same way about you
>when they grow up?
>--

How can you equate "I don't want to read about this issue here" with "I don't
care about this issue"?  Your right to free speech is not the same as my right
not to have you shouting at the top of your lungs at my doorstep.  The rightness
of your cause and whether or not I agree or disagree have nothing to do with the
practice of posting political issues in a recreational forum.  Yes, these issues
are important.  The question (which I do not intend to resolve) is whether or not
this is the appropriate forum for them.  

---
1. Bill Gascoyne
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: cwebster@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Chris Webster)
Subject: Re: Levis Drops Boy Scouts...
Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 92 14:11:44 EDT

In article <1992Aug14.173624.10218@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger) writes:
>
>First of all, this discussion is NOT appropriate for rec.scouting.
>BSA has it's rules and moral standards; if you CHOOSE not to live by
>them, it's your problem, not BSA's.  Just because you stand on a
>soapbox, it doesn't mean that the societal norm will change to suit
>YOU.  

1) This group is not rec.scouting.bsa.
2) Even if it were, that would not prevent discussion about changing the
policies.  



Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination
From: kadie@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie)
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 17:07:15 GMT

strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes:

>Carl Kadie asks for a policy that would include the Boy Scouts but
>exclude the KKK youth organization from Bank of America grants.
>This is unnecessary, since the Bank of America is a private organization
>and may make grants, within its policy guidelines, to whomever it
>likes.

So what about the United Way? It is also a private organization but
one that is often given special access in both private organziations
and public organizations. It needs a clear antidiscrimination policy
so that donating organizations and individuals can see if their policy
is compatable with its policy.

- Carl
-- 
Carl Kadie -- kadie@cs.uiuc.edu -- University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: lalibr@jec304.its.rpi.edu (Ron Scott Laliberte)
Subject: Re: Scouting
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 18:40:32 GMT

So change it.. Scouting has taught you to be leaders, well, lead us into
uncharted topic waters!  The only way people will stop discussing the 
Unite Way and Levi issues, is if we give them something else to talk about.
 
  In LF&S
Vivs

Newsgroups: rec.scouting