From: zen@death.corp.sun.com (d)
Newsgroups: alt.feminism
Subject: Re: MEN-BASHING
Date: 15 Sep 92 16:23:44
Organization: savage hackers
NNTP-Posting-Host: death.corp.sun.com
In-reply-to: smithm@vax.sonoma.edu's message of 15 Sep 92 10:57:15 -0800


In article <1992Sep15.105715.1@vax.sonoma.edu> smithm@vax.sonoma.edu writes:
> One thing I can't understand is how women can be men-bashers.  I am a 
> woman, and I think I am very liberal, but i am no man-basher.  What 
> is the point?  Isn't that what they have been doing to us and what 
> you are fighting against?

  Are you talking about on the net, or in general?  If you're referring
to the world at large, there are plenty of examples of people hating
others for a variety of reasons.  If oppression is a plausible, if not
logical or loving, reason to hate, then women have at least some cause
to hate men.  Indeed, many more men than women could certainly could be
called women-bashers by most definitions, but, of course, your
accusations, like many on this newsgroup, doesn't address that issue.
If you're talking about the net however, I haven't seen a large
preponderance of people who hate men, but I have seen (and fall into
this category myself) quite a few who despise the injustices that
currently are targeted towards women.  That is sometimes both
miscommunicated and misunderstood as hatred towards the male species.
Communicating anger is a very tough thing to do in a clear and rational
manner....

> Women who hate men don't realize what they are doing.

  That's a little strong, I'd say.  People aren't perfect; you seem to
be saying that anyone who hates someone doesn't know what they are
doing.  I'm not saying that all women should hate men, but if you've
been persecuted and abused by a group of people, then it is fairly
natural, indeed, understandable, to have some prejudice towards your
assailants.  I've found that most people I have met that have prejudices
are quite aware of their prejudices, and usually have some justification
for their feelings.

> All of our 
> lives we have been fighting for equality.  By "burning our bridges" 
> so to speak we will never get anywhere.  No matter how much you may 
> not like it, men control the world.  The only way we can get anywhere 
> is with the help of men.  If we make them mad, they will do 
> everything they can to make our lives miserable.

  They already do, to many... but there is sometimes difficult to show
someone that you're upset and angry and want the inequalities to stop
and that you hate them just because they are a member of the oppressors.

> I feel that women should be liberal to an extent.  What's wrong with 
> being a house mother?  I know a lot of women that stay home woth 
> their children and love it.  In fact, most of them quit their job to 
> stay home.  I think it's nice to know that if I don't have a job my 
> husband will support me.  

  And I'd like to think that a man could quit his job and stay home and
take care of the kids and have his wife support him.  What's the point?
Equality doesn't mean that you can't be a 1950's housewife or a rocket
scientist or anything else -- it means that you have the *choice* to be
whatever you want, no matter what swings or doesn't between your legs.

> We are taught to love our neighbor.  Does that only refer to 
> neighbors that are women?  

  Does it only refer to neighbors that are men?  I'd like to think it
refers to anyone, regardless of their sex, color, sexual preferences, or
anything else, but I won't hold my breath waiting for it to happen.  I'd
think that rather than telling the people who have the problems that
they should be quiet, good little girls, and that they shouldn't make
waves, that you should be telling the men to stop oppressing women.
There's going to be hate in this world regardless of what you say or do;
however, if you stop the injustices, inflicted on both men and women,
then you might have a better chance at quelling some of the hatred.

  All IMO, of course... *smile*...

 -- d