From: smorine@nyx.cs.du.edu (Suzanne Morine)
Newsgroups: co.general
Subject: Re: Support the boycott (was Re: Don't boyc
Date: 19 Nov 92 22:09:18 GMT
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.

freedman@cs.colostate.edu (keith freedman) writes:

>Realize, Melinda, that "minority" groups including African-Americans and
>American-Indians have been fighting for "their" rights (I quote their, because
>I feel that PEOPLE deserve rights, not any group of people in particular) for
>MANY years while the homosexual situation is fairly recent and has been
>clouded by this AIDS mis-information.  If you wish for us to look at the
>civil-rights history, one could argue that homosexuals shouldn't expect
>anything for 30 or so years.

This sounds like "you have to wait X years before we deign to give you
equal rights".  Freedom and fairness are more important than popular
myths and "jokes" against certain groups.

A few notes on history, too:

The gay-rights movement has been around since the 60's.  The movement's
beginning is typically marked as the spontaneous uprising in NYC, in the
summer of '69, at the Stonewall Inn, after police raided the place for
no reason other than it being a gay gathering place.

Atlanta has had equal rights for gays since 1971.  The federal gay and
lesbian civil rights bill has languished in congress for 18 years. Even
AIDS has existed since at least '81, in my memory.

And, anyway, weren't the Kinsey studies done in the late 40's and
published in the 50's?  Along with other sex studies since then?  These
alone should have put the myths and fables to bed.  "You can tell a fag
from his voice," etc.

There's no need for people to be screaming for 30 years before others
think.  Thinking should be the given.

And you make it sound as if black people only got their rights last
week.  Haven't the civil rights and anti-discrimination laws been
around for 20+ years?

>This issue especially could take quite some time as it is not just the fear
>of people who are different, but it has to do with people's insecurity about
>themselves and their sexuality.  People who fear gays are obviously so
>insecure about their own heterosexuality that they feel they might become
>gay.  This is probably why they don't view it as an "orientation".  I don't
>know what others think, I can only speculate.  I can tell you that it is
>disturbing (for me, anyways) when someone of the same sex tries to "pick
>me up" in the grocery store (or anywhere).  This sort of thing also makes
>people upset, angry, and prejudice.

I think many straight guys are worried that someone bigger and stronger
than them might give them unwanted attention.  The sort of thing that
happens to women all the time.  If these StraightGuys(tm) accept gay
people as equal, questions arise:

 "Will it be ok for a gay guy to assume that I'm available to them for
 flirting the way I assume that women are for me?"  (Or, "gosh, will I
 have to show some consideration and tact toward others in order to
 mentally be able to expect it from gay men... seeing as how they are
 really equal.")
 
 "I am preoccupied with sending signals that I'm straight (chasing skirts,
 making anti-gay remarks, acting macho).  Isn't it just as valid if a gay
 guy constantly sends signals that he's gay?  That is, being preoccupied
 with making anti-straight remarks, acting nellie, and chasing guys at work.
 (Or, "gee, all this posturing is ridiculous, I'll highlight something
 in my personality besides my straightness, or maybe I'll just stop being
 any sort of self-exaggeration.")

 "If a gay guy makes a pass at me, isn't that just as much as a complement
 as my making a pass at a woman?  Though I don't want to drop my assumption
 that all women are out there for me (whether they say so or not), it really
 isn't fair to make such assumptions.  Really, a guy making a pass at me 
 doesn't make me gay.  Therefore, my making a pass at a woman doesn't make
 her straight."


--
--Suzanne Morine          smorine@nyx.cs.du.edu
--"Toleration is the greatest gift of the mind; it requires the same effort
--of the brain that it takes to balance oneself on a bicycle."  Helen Keller
--
Newsgroups: co.general