HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: leino@cc.Helsinki.FI (Pietari Pentinpoika Uv)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: SCA Heraldry and Copyright Law
Date: 1 Sep 92 10:39:40 GMT
Organization: Shire of Aarnimetsa, Drachenwald, East

In article <VADER.92Sep1005517@meryl.csd.uu.se> vader@meryl.csd.uu.se (]ke Eldberg) writes:
>Greetings from William de Corbie.
>
>I asked the Swedish State herald about protection of arms here.
>Surprisingly, Swedish law does not explicitly protect *any*
>arms except the Royal ones, as a symbol of the State. Personal
>coats of arms are not legally protected.

Yes, the situation is basically the same here in Finland. The national
arms are protected by law, and I seem to remember that the arms of
provinces, towns and such are also mentioned somewhere in laws. In
theory, the arms of Finnish nobility are protected by a late 18th
century Royal edict (given by a king of Sweden, canceled in Sweden by a
change of constitution in 1970's but still techically in effect in
Finland). The rest are protected only by custom.

>                                         Why? Well, it seems
>they count on that the public outrage against the extremely
>bad taste of abusing someone's arms will be enough to deter
>people from doing it.

Of course, most people consider arms something that only members of the
nobility have, and people in general are not that pretentious.  In
effect, people think armory in general is not something desirable enough
to go to the trouble of using.

It seems to me, however, that this talk about the legal protection of
armoury is yet another instance of the american attourney-centered way
of organizing inter-personal relations.  As far as I know, our
custom-based protection does work reasonably well.  Note, too, that the
English legal protection isn't that frequently used, either -- the court
of the Earl Marshal has held one single session in the last couple of
centuries. 

>The only way to legally protect any symbol in Sweden is to
>register it as a trademark!

That isn't the same, however.  The trademark protection is far narrower
in scope than a true armorial protection. 

>                            So it would not surprise me in
>the least if I saw someone called "Count Sven Sparre (tm)"
>:-)

Hmm.. You don't even have any kind of personal name registration in
Sweden? Poor you.. 8> Besides, the protection of names and noble titles
is entirely another can of worms.

        Pietari

-- 
Antti Leino                                     "The notion of code-switching 
University of Helsinki Computing Centre          presupposes that there are 
Antti.Leino@Helsinki.FI                          codes to switch."
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (A.J.S. Nusbacher)
Subject: Re: Carolus goes to Toronto...
Organization: University of Toronto -- Hart House
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 18:01:26 GMT

In article <92Aug26.160720.32507@acs.ucalgary.ca> parr@acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr) writes:

>Well, I'm 6'4" ... short brown hair ...
>My armour is in flux. I will either be wearing a ... 
>jupon, quartered in blue and yellow,
>and belted ... 
>OR a ratty old grey
>jupon 

If you read between the lines, you'll see that Carolus intends to show up
at Eoforwic fighting practive disguised as Finnvarr de Taahe.

Best o' luck, Carolus!

Aryk Nusbacher
From: carl@silver.lcs.mit.edu (Alexander of Kiev (mka Carl Alexander))
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Smelly steel wagons at Pe
Date: 29 Aug 92 09:59:35 GMT
Organization: The Rialto

Ailean Mac an Daroch writes:
 
>I DID, however, take great umbridge at the blasting
>horns of the great diesel beasts lumbering on the interstate!  I
>was unfortunate enough to be assigned not far from that awful road ....
>I do wish there were some way to silence those beasties' horns!
 
I recall once seeing a big, orange, official Interestate sign
that said something like this:
 
                   CONSTRUCTION AHEAD  NEXT 5 MILES
                      WARNING  EXPLOSIVES IN USE
                          DO NOT SOUND HORNS
                         DO NOT USE CB RADIOS
                             NEXT 5 MILES
 
Do you suppose the Penn. state police would be too upset if we 
set up a couple of those either side of Pennsic on I-79?  ;^)
 
Alexander of Kiev                       Carolingia, East

Carl Alexander                          Harvard Square, Cambridge, Mass.
carl@silver.lcs.mit.edu
From: ics.vance@Control.Com (Vance J. VanDoren)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Blow calibration study
Date: 2 Sep 92 14:23:47 GMT
Reply-To: ics.vance@control.com
Organization: Industrial Computing Society

Unto the readers of the Rialto come courteous greetings from Baron Lord
Pieter van Doorn, Barony of Rivenstar, Middle Kingdom ...

About a year ago, I learned of a discussion here concerning the blow
calibration experiment which I have been conducting for some years at
S.C.A. events around the Known World (the so-called "bowling ball test").
Having just now gained access to the Rialto, I would like to resume that
discussion for the benefit of those Rialtans whose questions and concerns
have gone unanswered.

The purpose of the experiment was to determine the average strength of
the average killing blow in S.C.A. combat by surveying the blow 
calibration standards of fighters with various degrees of proficiency
from various parts of the Known World.  The results have been applied to 
a training exercise by which new fighters (and veterans, for that matter) 
may practice delivering blows that would be considered "good" by a 
majority of fighters.

A complete discussion of the experimental procedure, the statistical 
results, and their interpretation is now available.  Since there are a
number of important diagrams in the report, I can not post it to an ftp
site.  However, I will happily mail hard copies to interested parties 
and/or answer specific questions posted here on the Rialto. To obtain a
copy of the report, send your name, address, and $3.00 (for copying costs
and postage) to Vance VanDoren, 3220 SR 26W, W Lafayette, IN 47906.

I look forward to your inquiries.

Pieter

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: corun@access.digex.com (Corun MacAnndra)
Subject: Re: SCA in Literature
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 13:43:44 GMT

In article <1293@niktow.canisius.edu> salley@niktow.canisius.edu (David Salley) writes:
>I thought people might be interested in a few recent mentions of the SCA in SF.

You forgot to mention _Fallen Angels_ by Larry Niven, Jerry Pournelle, and
another author whose name I can't recall, and I can't find my copy of the
book. SF Fandom and the SCA save the day after the environmentalists cause
the next ice age by doing away with global warming, and then blaming it on
scientists. (a very brief synopsis of the book)

In service,

Corun

-- 
===========================================================================
    Corun MacAnndra     |  The great thing about travel is getting to
  Dark Horde by birth   |   meet new people and see new places.
    Moritu by choice    |                            G. Khan
From: Bob.Upson@f333.n142.z1.fidonet.org (Bob Upson)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Historical Accuracy (was  COVINGTON CROSS)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 10:43:00 -0500

 
> Aryk compares the TV show to the level of authenticity produced by the
> SCA.
 
I think Aryk makes a good point...  I saw CC and thought it was hokey, poor
history, and not horribly well produced -- I liked it anyway.  I especially
enjoyed seeing Nigel Terry and the actress who plays his wife again (haven't
seen either of them since _Excalibur_).  Most of all, I'm pleased that the
middle ages have a chance to secure a toehold on American TV.  Maybe it'll catch
on.
 
_Henry_IV_ it isn't, but it's a place to start... <g>
 
> I would respond that we might expect a television program/movie to be
> able to reproduce a period with a higher level of authenticity than
> SCAdians, for a number of reasons:
> 1) Money - they have hundreds of thousands of dollars, even millions, to
> produce each program, whereas we are individuals, many working in low-
> paying jobs, or in the military.
 
Nice thought, except that TV budgets rarely go into the millions (or I doubt
hundreds of thousands). Consider the original Star Trek (to borrow from another
anachronistic TV domain), it was produced on a *very* small budget and was
unquestionably a cheesy production -- but people liked it.  *Now* we have ST:
The Next Generation which *does* have an episode budget in the millions... 
There is always hope.
 
> 2) Acting talent: TV and movies are made with ACTORS, who are able to
> assume a persona different from their own and carry it off with some
> measure of conviction.
 
Not every actor is perfect.  Low budget programming gets low budget actors. And
a cheap script sets limits on even the best actor...
 
> 3) Costuming: They have professional costumers who can, one would hope,
> produce reasonably accurate facsimiles of period clothing
 
Given a sufficient budget.  TV tends to work from standard stock wardrobes that
are shared around the whole studio for numerous productions. If you're shooting
a series set in modern times, that's not a problem. If you are shooting a series
set in the 14th century, you must either make do with what you can get, or get
spend lots more on costuming and reduce your potential for profit later...  So
if what we're seeing is the best they could do from the ol' costume warehouse,
that's what we'll get.
From: jael@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Jael)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Dagged paisley thing
Date: 26 Aug 92 02:27:44 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center

In article <714649563.F00004@therose.pdx.com> Suze.Hammond@f56.n105.z1.therose.pdx.com (Suze Hammond) writes:
>BA>  From: Beth.Appleton@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Beth Appleton)
>Paisley is one of those things we all *wish* were period... But it's not!
>
>It is named after Paisley, Scotland, where they developed the ability to 
>weave patterns inspired by the *printed* patterns on East Indian cloth, only 
>much more intricate. Some day the Indian originals may be proven to be IP, 
>but the more common sort we are all used to can't. I don't remember exactly, 
>but I think what we think of when we say "paisley" is over a century too 
>late.
>
>(And I sure wish it weren't! I LOVE paisley... )-;

A local bookstore carries a book on paisley, but I'm too broke to buy it so
I'll have to try to remember what I read in the store. 

The paisley which comes from Scotland, and indeed, the word "Paisley" itself,
is not period.  However, the paisley design is period (though probably not
appropiate for those with European personas.)
The design is a middle-eastern rendition of the palm leaf, or the palm tree -
a very abstract rendition with the slim trunk and gracefully drooping large
head.  Most of the old, middle eastern paisleys illustrated had the "commas"
more elongated than we're used to, and they were arranged upright, in a line,
rather than being scattered all over.

I wish I could buy the book, so I could be more sure of this information, but
maybe someone can confirm (or refute) this
 
In service,
Laura the Nameless

-- 
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| Jael                    |   "One dream, one soul, one prize, one goal,     |
| jael@sage.cc.purdue.edu | One golden glance of what should be." -R. Taylor |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: bambi@visenix.uucp (Hilda(Bambi) Smith-Beattie)
Subject: Re: Multiple Titles
Organization: /etc/organization
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 14:32:40 GMT

 inaccurate quote from my fair lady
"henry higgens treats everyone like a guttersnipe
while colonel pickeringtreats a gutter snipe
as if she were a lady!"
grin
beatriz
From: branwen@cerebus.ccc.amdahl.com (Karen Williams)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Screaming death chickens (was Re: Carolus goes to Toronto...)
Keywords: Tanith has a GOOD giggle.
Date: 27 Aug 92 20:08:51 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <1992Aug27.182303.21183@thinkage.on.ca> akilgour@thinkage.on.ca (Anita Kilgour) writes:
>In article <92Aug26.194406.28765@acs.ucalgary.ca> parr@acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr) writes:
>>BTW, those who refer to it as a screaming death chicken often
>>find their helmets filled with live mealworms...

>A truly lovely concept.  And my sympathies for having your device so 
>nicknamed. I can see it (unfortunately) sticking...

When I went home for Christmas the year I started fighting, I showed pictures
to my family of me in my armor, fighting. My shield has on it a white raven
rising drawn in a Celtic style. My brother, who is completely mundane, took
one look at it and said, "Oh. The Rossignal chicken."

(For those who don't ski, the ski company Rossignal (whose name I am badly
misspelling) has as its logo a stylized white "chicken".)

Branwen ferch Emrys
The Mists, the West

--
                                          Karen Williams
                                          branwen@cerebus.ras.amdahl.com
"Don't whine. Warrior women speak in a husky whisper."
  -- Brat Pack #3
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Subject: Re: Pennsic Land Allocation
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 20:36:46 GMT

It occurs to me, that (in effect), the Pennsic Autocrat is renting
space.  This year it was 235 sq. feet per attendee.  Or at least . . .
That's the intent . . .

While I am not suggesting that anyone do so, looking at it from that
angle suggests that those who feel cramped could buy extra
'memberships' at Pennsic.  Pay the fee--get more space.  Does anyone
actually go around and count noses (or bedrolls) in each encampment?
If the 'space' is paid for--does the Autocrat care (or *should* the
Autocrat care) if there's a physical body present?

As an aside . . .  If one shows up at the gate at Pennsic, can one pay
the fee for someone who is not yet present?  Clearly (given the fee
schedule) a membership discount will require the presence of a
membership *card*--but does it require a live, breathing human to go
with it?  (For that matter--I beleive that Harry, Koshka's cat--is a
paid member in good standing of the SCA.  Does he count?  He's a
squire, so disputing his rights probably ought to be taken up with his
knight . . .)

	--Hal

        Hal Ravn, Province of the Mists, West Kingdom
        Wilson H. Heydt, Jr.,  Albany, CA 94706,  510/524-8321 (home)
-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    "Boycott Time-Warner"
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |         --J. Danforth Quayle
510-823-5447                 |    "... kill all the lawyers."
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |         --William Shakespeare
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: kevin@isi.COM (Keradwc an Cai)
Subject: Re: A couple of requests and something to think about.
Organization: The Internet
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 15:39:15 GMT

Responding to Dagonell, Hossein/Greg wrote:

> Shame on you, Dagonell.  If the bounder wants to chase jailbait with a
> literate tag, he should have to do it the old fashioned way: years of
> training in classical and medieval Latin.  It was good enough for old
> farts like us, it's good enough for him...:-)
> 
> No shortcuts for well-educated decadence!

Adfui, feci!

(Oh, is Hossein/Greg greater than, less than, or equal to Greg/Hossein? <g>)

Keradwc
  kconnery@isi.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: ewright@convex.com (Edward V. Wright)
Subject: Re: Steel Demos
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 15:47:53 GMT
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

William de Corbie ("]ke Eldberg") writes:

>Instead, they get a couple of guys in baseball-look open helms, dirty
>gambesons, hockey gloves and various more or less incongruous bits of
>steel, padding and plastic. They get garden-hose edged shields, basket
>hilts, jeans and Nikes.

>I am not saying that there is anything wrong with this type of armor;
>not everyone can make or buy full milanese steel plate... 

So?  Everytime I see a commercial for Nikes, they seem to sell for
upwards of fifty bucks.  You can get a servicable pair of boots for
the same price.  Likewise, you certainly find some less noticeably
OOP pants for the same price as those jeans.  Hockey gloves and
garden-hose-edged shields seem to be popular in certain areas,
but not in others, so surely there must be satisfactory substitutes
there also.  

True, not everyone can afford the best-looking armor.  But that does
not excuse the worst abuses.  Surely there's a wide range of options 
in between. 

-- Nicholas van Leyden
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: bunny round and other weird words
Date: 2 Sep 92 15:26:32 GMT
Reply-To: whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA

In article <23008@sybase.sybase.com> leighann@sybase.com (Leigh Ann Hussey) writes:
>Branwen writes:
>>
>>A bunny round is actually a short Spanish half-round, initially popularized
>>by Radnor of Guildemar, and exceedingly popular among Guildemarians (Radnor's
>>household, squires, ex-squires, and ex-squire's squires). It's also called
>>the Radnor round.
>>
>Ha!  When *I* first saw that shield, 7 or 8 years agone, they were
>calling it a "Wankel" -- as in the shape of the rotary engine...

No, that's a different shield shape.

	--Hal

        Hal Ravn, Province of the Mists, West Kingdom
        Wilson H. Heydt, Jr.,  Albany, CA 94706,  510/524-8321 (home)
-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    "Boycott Time-Warner"
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |         --J. Danforth Quayle
510-823-5447                 |    "... kill all the lawyers."
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |         --William Shakespeare
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: DEW@PSUECLD.BITNET
Subject: Stoopid Landless-White-Trash Land-Allocation Tricks....
Organization: The Internet
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 01:10:00 GMT

Greetings!

Elissif suggests advanced reservations for Pennsic; Here's a tough one.

(For this disscusion only, let us state that there is enough room for Z people
at Pennsic, base on X amount of land divided by Y amount of land per person.)

What do you do if Z+1 persons apply for advanced reservations (assuming all
other things being equal)?


Another approach:  A number of tickets (equal to Z) is evenly divided and then
distributed amongst the kingdoms of the know world.  You must have a ticket to
enter the war.  (Anyone found with a counterfiet ticket is turned over to the
mundane authorities)

Yet another approach:  you get what you pay for (on a square foot basis, say
about $0.02/ft Sq/ day seems about right, with a minimum of 25 sq ft /person).


Dur's rulz for Pennsic

1.      Have Fun.
2.      Don't mess with other people.
3.      You get what you pay for.
4.      If you don't like it, go home.
5.      Pay attention to ruls 1 and 2.

All remaining rulz are for the lawyers and the TSTLs (To Stupid To Live).

The autocrat should be armed with a rubber stamp (TSTL) and a pad of blue ink.
 Anyone who comes to the attention of the autocrat should be stamped on the
forehead and given the following warning:

"Go Home.  This is your only warning.  You are obviously To Stupid To Live.
Go Home now, and save a life, maybe your own.  The next time you WILL go home,
alive or in a body-bag, it makes no difference.  Go Home."

(Stupidity is no longer permitted to cull the gene-pool, thanks to the
lawyers.  Maybe they're not so smart as they would have us perceive?)

Salam,
Dale E. Walter     |Dur of Hidden Mountain
dew@ecl.psu.edu    |Orluk Oasis on the War Road (of Aethelmarc)

"I'm the Baron!  Ya gotta loath me!"
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: 00030929@ysub.ysu.edu
Subject: Thank you all
Organization: Youngstown State University
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 20:28:05 GMT

Greetings to all, from Vajk!
 
It has been about eighteen months since I returned from my "leave of absence"
from the SCA, and nearly as long since I found the Rialto.  This year was my
first Pennsic since then.
 
The people of the Rialto, and also of SCAHRLDS, have been instrumental in
changing my outlook, becoming re-acquainted with the Society, and in helping
to define my place in the Society.
 
Someone suggested that, to get a different view of the War, one should work
a shift or two of security.  This year I did, for the first time.  Indeed,
I got a very different view.
 
I had never met Mistress Hillary, but this year I visited "The Steward at Home"
at Pennsic.  Since no one else was there, the topics were all essentially what
*I* wanted to talk about.  They were welcome, and also influenced my view of
the Society, especially my view of the corporation.
 
At this time, I wish to say to all of you,  "THANK YOU".
 
Vajk
From: Bob.Upson@f333.n142.z1.fidonet.org (Bob Upson)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Pennsic Update (End)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 08:33:00 -0500

>>Changing the slant is one thing, changing our lovely little annual war
>>into a poof-da tourney is nearly criminal...
>        ^^^^^^^
 
> I can not let this go unanswered, for my honor will not allow it.
 
Your honor is intact, good gentle, no insult was intended nor offered.
 
> Regardless of how well you did or did not like the tourney, your use of
> "poof-da" in such a negative manner suggests to this member of clan
> blue feather that you think not only the "tourney" was bad, but also
> that we (the proud members of Clan Blue Feather) are somehow less than
> your esteemed self.
 
I ask your pardon if my missive offended you in any way.  'Poof-da' is rather
generic in these parts and has long lost its root connotation as anything
negative as far as my usage is concerned.  Although I suppose I should realize
that SCAdians of all people tend to recall archaic word usages...
 
> This poof-da humbly requests an apology. Not only to me and the other
> members of my clan (be they gay, lesbian, bi, or straight supporters)
> but also to all of the people who engaged in the tourney. You have
> slighted and insulted us all.
 
You have one.  No slight was inteneded by the use of the term -- I had no idea
anyone still actually used in in relation to alternative lifestyles. You may
number me, BTW, among the (rather vocal at times) supporters of gay rights.  The
apology goes to anyone who misinterpreted the term.
 
> Thank you for your ear, good my lord
 
Thank *you* for your polite reply, although if I may suggest, a bit more
tolerance might go a long way when no clear insult has been offered.
 
Lord Macsen ap Rhys of Wyvernhall
From: howland@noc.arc.nasa.gov (Curtis Howland)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Robin hood recast
Date: 4 Sep 92 05:24:29 GMT
Organization: NASA Science Internet Project Office

In article <715422381.F00003@ocitor.fidonet>, Joe.Bethancourt@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Joe Bethancourt) writes:
...
|>  Will Scarlett: myself, I suppose.....
|>  Friar Tuck: Denis of the Titans (right build and face....)
|> 
|> 
|>                                                         -Ioseph of Locksley
|>                                                          Grump

I must insert here that I can think of no better
Friar Tuck candidate than our own

Baron Dur!

(Take a bow, my land-lord of choice.)

---
Christofer de Hoyland    howland@nsipo.nasa.gov 
Province of the Southern Shores,
Principality of the Mists, Kingdom of the West.
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca