HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Michael.Norrish@comp.vuw.ac.nz (Michael Norrish)
Subject: Re: Define "Well Tempered"
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Victoria Uni. of Wellington, NZ.
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 00:20:59 GMT

>>>>> On Tue, 12 Jan 1993 06:52:25 GMT, roger@crux.Princeton.EDU
>>>>> (Roger Lustig) said:

Roger> In article <5170027@hpindda.cup.hp.com> tomm@hpindda.cup.hp.com
Roger> (Tom McNeal) writes:

>Does anyone know the difference between 'well-tempered' and
>'equal-tempered' tuning on a piano?  All I know is that
>'equal-tempered' is the current tuning style, and has been for some
>time, and that Bach used 'well-tempered' tuning (Oho, you say, THATS
>what "Well-tempered Clavier" meant.)

Roger> Equal temperament means just that: all semitones are the same
Roger> size, therefore all intervals of the same number of semitones
Roger> are the same size.

Roger> Well-tempered means using one of several tunings developed a
Roger> little before Bach's time.  These are somewhere between
Roger> mean-tone (most thirds pure) and equal temperament.  There are
Roger> lots of descriptions of the actual numbers involved; try Easley
Roger> Blackwood's book on tunings (Princeton, 1985 or so).

Two questions, (one unashamedly un-r.m.c. :-)

1. Is that Easley Blackwood the same as the Bridge player of the
famous ace-asking convention?

and 

2. Given that the WTC sort of seems to specify the way it should be
played by title alone, do recordings of it these days use a
well-tempered tuning or not? 

There have been numerous discussions of this tuning business before on
r.m.c, but my physics stopped a long time ago and all those
frequencies, octaves and harmonies are quite confusing. However, I
have heard that using a tuning that is not well-tempered can make some
keys sound pretty odd. Now presumably, this sort of effect might have
been exploited by composers of the time, (and indeed it would explain
perhaps why keys had various connotations, (D minor is demonic or some
such? That's the key to Mozart's 20th piano concerto isn't it?)), but
was it used by Bach? 

I think I may have also read that some of the pieces in WTC were
originally in other keys and Bach just transposed them, so that
perhaps in these cases at least, the difference from one key to the
next was insignificant..

Perhaps the maintainer of the FAQ might like to add a subsection along
the lines of : 
  "Tuning : (well-tempered etc), for those who hertz is a dirty word."


Thanks,
Michael.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: grider@IASTATE.EDU
Subject: Gliere Review 1
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 06:29:56 GMT


Here is the first of fours reviews of Reinhold Gliere's Symphony No.3 "Ilya
Muromets" printed in the Classical Express newsletter. All other criticisms  and
discussions are welcome.


Faberman, Royal Philharmonic
Unicorn 2014/15 (DDD) 1978
57:33 (disc 1) 35:33 (disc 2)
PERFORMANCE 9   SOUND  8.5

     Because of its length (a complete performance takes roughly 80 mins),
Gliere's Third Symphony has often been subjected to cuts by the various
conductors who have recorded the piece. The original recording done in 1941 by
Stokowski and the Philadelphia Orchestra was shortened by about 40 mins. That
conductor subsequently re-recorded the work in 1958 in stereo (trimmed to 37
mins!). Then followed a memorable rendition by Ormandy and the Philadelphians in
1972 for RCA (necer reissued on CD), followed by a production on Melodyia by
Boris Rahklin and a Soviet orchestra.  
     The first CD recording of the work is Harold Faberman's 1978
(all-digital?!) effort on UNICORN. Faberman's is a brooding account, spread (at
93 mins total time) on two CD's. There is much to be admired here. The playing
of the RPO is sincere and unrelenting, if not always tidy, and this recording
boasts the best percussion effects of all the current versions (timpani in
particular). But since each of the competing choices are accommodated onto one
disc, Faberman's is, at well over thirty dollars, priced too high to be a
serious contender, at least for the beginner.
     


                                                  Peter S. Murano 
                                                  Classical Express,
                                                  406 Main St., 
                                                  Ames, IA 50010
                                                  USA



Yuhang
grider@iastate.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: rstevahn@boi.hp.com (Robert Stevahn)
Subject: Re: Ravel
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 16:37:29 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Hewlett-Packard / Boise, Idaho
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

Steve Apter (apter@fid.morgan.com) wrote:
: For the string quartets I suggest the Emersons on DG.

Sorry, but I must disagree. I have the Isaye (sp?) quartet's recording, which
is a much more impressionistic reading. Emerson is great for Bartok, but not
for Ravel. I think the Isaye is on London, but I'm not certain.
----
Robert Stevahn
rstevahn@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com
From: tony@cns.nyu.edu (Tony Movshon)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Ravel
Date: 6 Jan 93 04:28:42 GMT
Reply-To: tony@cns.nyu.edu
Organization: New York University

In article GBM@ecf.toronto.edu, torenvl@ecf.toronto.edu (TORENVLIET GERARD LAWRENS) writes:

> So, if Ravel is played well, is it worth it?

Yes, indeed. For pieces at the opposite pole from his "Pictures" orchestration
(which I happen to love), try "Le Tombeau de Couperin" and "Ma Mere L'Oye". I've
been very pleased with the Dutoit/Montreal versions. Also have a listen at the
String Quartet and the piano pieces (e.g. Miroirs). Avoid the Bolero at all costs
(Ravel once said "The Bolero is my one true work of genius. Unfortunately, there's
no music in it").

Incidentally, your Vox set is conducted by Scrowacewski, and it's rather crude,
as you say.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
					Tony Movshon

Internet:  movshon@nyu.edu		Howard Hughes Medical Institute
					Center for Neural Science
					New York University
Phone:	   (212) 998-7880		4 Washington Place, room 809
Fax:	   (212) 995-4183		New York, NY 10003
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster)
Subject: Roussel
Organization: pubs
Date: 7 Jan 93 16:33:57 CST

Richard Smith writes:

   Roussel conducts Roussel        Badly underrated composer who wrote some 
				   excellent music. Much here well-played. 
				   At any rate, the price is very right.

I don't know if Roussel is underrated in the sense that someone says
"this guy is mediocre"; mainly he seems to be ignored.  But I agree
that, at least for my taste, he's a lot better than his level of
exposure would suggest.  Anyone who likes, say, Prokofiev, Ravel,
Hindemith, or that general category, should definitely check out
Roussel.  He might be most similar to Honegger (but of course totally
different :-), who is similarly underappreciated.

Chris Brewster
cb@cray.com
From: mcfadm@dnrhal.dnr.wisc.gov ((Non omnia possumus omnes.))
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Sources for study scores?
Date: 10 Jan 1993 10:50:30 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu


I'm looking for study and miniature scores for 20th century chamber and
orchestral works.

In particular I'd be interested in finding sources for the Shostakovich
symphony scores in the Kalmus editions and Robert Simpson symphonies and
string quartets.

In general my local store is loathe to supply or stock these sorts of scores
because of the "limited" call for them.  I'd be interested in talking
directly to CPP-Belwin or Faber Music in London, but (*alas*) I haven't
an address for either.  It seems that getting a consistent source for
these sorts of scores is truly a hit-or-miss proposition with most retail
outlets.

So here are the direct questions:

        o  do any of you have any experience with buying scores directly
           from CPP-Belwin or Faber (or from any other publisher)?
        o  does anyone have a local source they would like to recommend
           for study and miniature scores?
        o  is there a better way to go about getting reasonable quality
           scores for twentieth century works?

As always, any help will be appreciated and eMAIL responses will be
summarized back to the net.

===============================================================================
                                                                  Mark McFadden
                                              EMail: mcfadm@dnrmai.dnr.wisc.gov
                                      Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources
                                                     Madison,  Wisconsin  53707
                                        fax: (608)267-9380 voice: (608)267-9804
From: bparrish@rose.hp.com (Bill Parrish)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: "Mob" version of Peter and the Wolf
Date: 4 Jan 93 22:34:50 GMT
Organization: HP - Systems Technology Division
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.8 PL6]


 Sorry... no info about the "Mob" version, but it sounds like fun.
 I know of another parody on this music, however...

 Allan Sherman did something with the Boston Pops back in the 60s called
 "Peter and the Commisar" which made fun of the Soviet system. 
 Basically the story is that Peter came up with this nice little song
 (Peter's theme), but the Commisars want to change it here and there just
 a little bit.  So the orchestra continues to play the theme, but with little
 changes here and there until you can only kind of recognize the rhythm. They
 put "Peter" in prison, but someone who owns a record company overhears
 the song, records it, and puts it on the "Vladivostock Hit Parade".  At
 that time, the commisars all take credit for it, of course.  There
 was also a piece about the "ends" of symphonies... and one where Arthur
 Fiedler was "guest hiccupist"... "Variations on "How Dry I am", I 
 believe.  This was PDQ Bach type stuff.  I think I still have the
 LP around somewhere.

 Bill Parrish
From: mgresham@dscatl.UUCP (Mark Gresham)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: N. American Choral Concerts Jan. 15 - 31 (St. Olaf Choir)
Date: 10 Jan 93 19:55:00 GMT
Reply-To: mgresham@dscatl.UUCP (Mark Gresham)
Organization: Digital Systems Co,  Atlanta, Ga

In article <1993Jan10.021450.6424@news.stolaf.edu> hakari@lars.acc-admin.stolaf.edu (The Conformist Contrabass Clarinetist) writes:
>In article <1163@dscatl.UUCP> mgresham@dscatl.UUCP (Mark Gresham) writes:
>>ST. OLAF CHOIR : 1993 tour concerts Jan. 15 - 31
>>[...]
>
>The Choir is heading to the southeast U.S. on their domestic tour.  And to
>Norway for international tour this year.  Alas, I do not have further tour 
>dates or ticket info.  However, I do have a couple contact phone numbers
>that may prove helpful.

I hadn't planned on posting post-January concert dates just yet,
but I'd be glad to give you one of those Southeastern dates:

February 10, 1993 : St. Olaf Choir (Anton Armstrong, Director)
  Glenn Memorial Auditorium, 1652 N. Decatur Rd.
  Campus of Emory University
  7:30pm
  $10 General Admission, No Refunds, Seats Held until 7:20pm

The concert is sponsored by the Gwinnett Festival Singers, and
the phone number for more information is (404) 466-3778
(William O. Baker).  It's highly recommended that tickets
be purchased in advance.

Cheers,

--Mark Gresham
dscatl!mgresham@gatech.edu
=====

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: hsong@ardour.bellcore.com (G. Hugh Song)
Subject: Die Entf"uhrung aus dem Serail
Reply-To: hsong@ardour.bellcore.com (G. Hugh Song)
Organization: ...
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 22:57:25 GMT


Would you review various recordings of Mozart's "Die Entf"uhrung aus
dem Serail (sp?)".
Especially, I'd like to know which one is of grand opera style instread of
chamber-music-scale style.

When I watched some excerpts of this opera in movie "Amadeus", the
opera sounded like a vivid, large, and full of liveliness.  
When I watched a video recording by someone, I realized that it is not 
actually a grand opera  (whatever it means - ya know).   But there is nothing 
wrong to have a taste of different flavor!  Just like Fisher-Dieskau's
Rigoletto and Sutherland's Turandot.

BTW, the video recording which I mentioned had a bad recording engineer.  
The sound is all distorted.

Thanks.

	Hugh
From: yedid@CAM.ORG (Gabriel Yedid)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Greatest Discovery of 1992
Date: 4 Jan 93 17:50:46 GMT
Organization: Champlain Regional College, St-Lambert QC  CANADA


     I was very surprised that I got so many answers to my survey of 
favorite organ works in such a short time.  I decided I would do another
one, but this time in a much broader category.  I'd like to know, from
anyone out there:  What piece of music that you heard for the first time
in 1992 really left a big good impression on you?  There can be lots of
possibilities per person.
>
>
For me it was Shri Camel by Terry Riley.  Nothing in my musical experience
possibly prepared me for what I heard when I just picked up the disc in
a second-hand shop.  Not only is he a fantastic improvisational
keyboardist, but the way he achieves such a distinctly Eastern feeling
using Western techniques and technology (okay, so his keyboard IS a
Yamaha) is something I found completely unprecedented.
>
>
Gabe Yedid
yedid@champlain.cam.org
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker)
Subject: Re: Bernstein's Mahler 9 with Berlin - a review
Organization: Camosun College, Victoria B.C, Canada
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 22:15:33 GMT

rtut@troi.cc.rochester.edu (Raymond Tuttle) writes:

: does
: anyone else miss applause on "live" recordings? No matter how quiet an
: audience is, they are always there,  like a kind of spectral presence, 
: and to edit out their final contribution seems unnatural at best, and
: disrespectful to the performers at worst. 

Yes, I do. I was pleased that EMI left in the applause on Rattle's new
Mahler 7 (1991 Aldeburgh). I note that Teldec left it out on Masur's
new Mahler 1 - but then maybe the audience didn't feel much like
clapping - I know I didn't....

Give my regards to your two little white mice. (Am I imagining it, or
did there used to be 3?)
--
Real:  Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept., Camosun College, Victoria B.C.
Email: (dbarker@spang.camosun.bc.ca)
Phone: +1 604 370 4452
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: rray@lookout.it.uswc.uswest.com (Randy J. Ray)
Subject: Re: Best CD of Mussorgsky "Pictures ..."
Organization: US WEST Communications, Inc. -- Denver, CO
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 20:30:12 GMT

In article <1993Jan5.221536.5229@colorado.edu>, judd@wilkinson.cs.colorado.edu (Stephen Judd) writes:
> In article <1993Jan5.215131.2986@bme.ri.ccf.org> christoj@bme.ri.ccf.org (Judy Christopher) writes:
> >Please help - I need to get for my husband the absolute best CD of
> >Pictures at an Exhibition (Ravel).  What do you recommend?
> >
> >Ciao, Judy
> >
> >
> 
> Telarc.  One of the first CD's manufactured.  Lorin Maazel, Cleveland
> Symphony Orchestra, if memory serves :-).
> 
> If you can find a Russian recording, (or better yet, a Russian pianist
> playing the original), you might consider it as well.
> 

I don not know if this is the arrangement I have on tape or not, but I have a
gripe with my tape, and am waiting to buy a CD until I know this one detail
for certain:

Did Ravel score the first section ("Promenade", first theme) to be strings or
solo trumpet? When I played this music, albeit in a symphonic wind ensemble,
it was solo trumpet. When I bought a tape of it, a cassette that also featured
"Night on Bald Mountain," the opening them was violins on the principal theme,
ensemble where it is supposed to be ensemble, and THEN solo trumpet on the
secondary theme. I want a recording that starts with lone trumpet. Are all the
orchestral arrangements like this, or is there an arrangement that opens with
trumpet? Or do I have to look for a symphonic winds recording, if there even
is one?

Randy
-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Randy J. Ray -- U S WEST IT/CSD                 rray@lookout.it.uswc.uswest.com
                                                           Phone: (303)595-2852
"It's not denial. I'm just very selective about the reality I accept." --Calvin
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: jamesc@bassclar.Eng.Sun.COM (James Langdell)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Violin/Viola Duos
Date: 12 Jan 1993 19:56:03 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: jamesc@bassclar.Eng.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: bassclar

rainer@fml.tuwien.ac.at (Rainer Staringer) writes:
>My friend and I are looking for some interesting (but playable...)
>pieces for violin and viola. We already know - and love! - the two
>Mozart duos. Are there any other pieces which are equally beautiful
>and fun to play?

I've never heard them, but I suspect there are similar duos by
Michael Haydn.  If I remember right, Mozart wrote his two pieces
to make good on a contract the younger Haydn brother wasn't able to
fulfill in time.  Since so many chamber works were published in
sets of threes or sixes at that time, I suspect that Haydn may have 
come through with one or more works before Mozart picked up the slack
with his pair.

But there are few pieces, in any form, that equal those particular
works of Mozart.  Enjoy other duos you find, but don't set your
hopes too high.

--James Langdell      jamesc@eng.sun.com
  Sun Microsystems    Mountain View, Calif.
From: ahanysz@spam.ua.oz (Alexander Hanysz)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: SURVEY: FAVORITE PIANO CONCERTO
Date: 5 Jan 93 06:18:24 GMT
Organization: Department of Pure Mathematics, University of Adelaide

zorro@picasso.ocis.temple.edu (John Grabowski) writes:
                                                      `
> I must admit I'm starting to enjoy these "Greatest All-Time" and "Favorite"
> threads, so I'm starting another one.  :-)   The question is, What is your
> favorite piano concerto?

I'm a pianist, so I'm biased.  Chopin E minor.  It's a great piano
piece, and I don't care if the orchestra gets bored!

> And a very important sub-question: What's your favorite *Beethoven* piano
> concerto?

The fourth.

								Alex.

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: mvalinis@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Michael J Valinis)
Subject: Bruckner
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 17:29:40 GMT

Since my posting on Bruckner a few days ago, there have been a few direct and 
indirect replies, so I thought that a restatement, or perhaps clarification, of
my position might be in order.

First of all, I did not say that I hated Bruckner or that he was a bad 
composer.  Actually< I believe that he was quite competant at what he was 
trying to do.... it's just not for me.  The carrying of Romanticism to its
logical extreme (not necessarily a pejorative term) is simply not something
that would appeal to a person who prefers more compact, formal architectures in
music.  For the people out there who wax ecstatic over B's works, I am glad
that you have found music that causes such paroxysms of delight.  I simply find
mine elsewhere.  Oh, BTW, this is not an uninformed or unreasoned opinion on my
part.... contrary to the implication in one reply, I have listened to all of
Bruckner's major works.  The result was a reinforcement of my feelings.

I stand by the second part of my posting:  the Bruckner thread (and others
before it) have been ground into the dust by their longevity.  It seems to me
that the longer a thread runs, the lower the signal to noise ratio becomes,
until it simply degenerates into a lot of flaming, name-calling, and egoistic
me-tooisms.  So why don't I use a kill file?  Well, I could, but the threads
still occasionally provide some entertainment -- I enjoy observing a bit of
repartee on occasion, and all too often the thread will completely mutate
into something else long before the keyword of the (to me) offending thread
disappears from the header.  A little careful consideration of keword headers 
would probably be appreciated by others besides me.

So, to all you Brucknerites out there, bless you and enjoy!  I think I'm going 
to go listen to a Brandenberg or two.  Ciao!

Michael
-- 
*>   Michael J. Valinis   -=+<*>+=-   mvalinis@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu   <*
*>=>  "Music is your own experience, your thoughts, your wisdom. If you  <=<*
*>+>=> don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." -Charlie Parker <=<+<*
*>=>+>=>+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+<=<+<=<*
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical,ny.general,ne.general
From: IMAGING.CLUB@OFFICE.WANG.COM ("Imaging Club")
Subject: NY Metropolitan Opera Schedule
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 08:06:31 GMT

Here's the New York Metropolitan Opera schedule:

La Boheme:          January 9, 12, 15, 20, 23
Tosca:              January 9 mat.
Jenufa:             January 8, 11
Semiramide          January 13, 16 mat.
Die Meistersinger
von Nuernberg       January 14, 18, 23 mat, 26, 30
                    February 2, 6, 10
Die Zauberfloete    January 16, 19, 22, 28
                    March 4, 8, 13 mat
                    April 7, 10, 13, 16
Un Ballo  In
Maschera            January 21, 27, 30 mat
Il Trovatore        January 25, 29
                    February 3, 6 mat, 9, 13, 16, 20, 24, 27
Der Rosenkavalier   February 1, 5, 11
Les Contes
D'Hoffmann          February 4, 8, 13 mat
Cavalleria
Rusticana
Pagliacci           February 12
La Traviata         March 18, 22, 26, 31
                    April 3, 6, 14, 17, 23, 28
                    May 1 mat
Lucia di
Lammermoor          March 29
                    April 2, 5, 9, 12, 15, 21, 24 mat
Der Ring Des
Nibelungen
 Cycle 1            (matinee) March 27
                    April 3, 10, 17
 Cycle 2            April 19, 20, 22, 24
 Cycle 3            April 26, 27, 29
                    May 1

Further info is available at the Met, tel. 212-362-6000

Michael.Willett@OFFICE.Wang.com
From: wikla@cs.Helsinki.FI (Arto Wikla)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: So exactly what's wrong with Bolero, anyway?
Date: 10 Jan 1993 16:27:42 +0200
Organization: University of Helsinki, Department of Computer Science
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: hydra.helsinki.fi

In <1993Jan8.162025.25168@Princeton.EDU> roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig) writes:

>...
>had been working at in the past.  This is simply a Build to a Climax,
>with nothing really terrific at the end, just this sudden collapse.
>In other words, a fifteen-minute fuck.

Years ago when I was visiting Amsterdam, I happened to go to a 
strip-tease place, and one lady danced and stripped thru the
WHOLE Bolero. She was good!  :-)

Arto Wikla, Helsinki, Finland

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker)
Subject: Re: When did Ives stop composing?
Organization: Camosun College, Victoria B.C, Canada
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 20:58:42 GMT


--
Real:  Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept., Camosun College, Victoria B.C.
Email: (dbarker@spang.camosun.bc.ca)
Phone: +1 604 370 4452
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: Messiah "Amen" and tympani
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 03:29:59 GMT

In article <6JAN199320334588@amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov> packer@amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov (Charles Packer) writes:
>In article <1993Jan5.173443.20218@Princeton.EDU>, roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig) writes...
>>So: both ways are right, and also "right."  Which way do you like better? 

>I like it with the flourishes. But I should note that in high
>school I played the tympani in concert band and used to watch
>the tympanist of the National Symphony with a binocular at their
>concerts... 

And the percussionist whose name was Frank Sinatra, right?

R
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical