From: gst@spdcc.com (Gary S. Trujillo)
Subject: Re: soc.culture.native.american
Reply-To: gst@gnosys.svle.ma.us (Gary S. Trujillo)
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 08:39:16 GMT

In article <idoy.724215797@crux1.cit.cornell.edu> idoy@crux1.cit.cornell.edu
	(Mike Wilson) writes:

> Good to hear from you again.  Let me begin once again by saying
> I value your opinion because of your upwards of three years in
> managing the excellent organization NativeNet.  But I would hope that,
> at this point in the discussion, very little will be considered
> "unacceptable."  It is my sincere hope that whatever the concensus
> decides will be acceptable to most everyone because we are working
> toward the creation of a very worthwhile newsgroup.

Indeed we are, but one of my objectives is to unite two disjoint communities,
as I've explained in personal correspondence with you, Mike.  I want to make
it possible for people who have access to Usenet to take part in NativeNet
communication channels, which, until now, have been available only via mail-
ing lists.  When I say "unacceptable," I am saying that the scheme cannot
work if things get turned on their head via a name like "soc.culture.american.
native," which would mandate, in effect, that the subject matter relate to
America - and not really in the sense of America that we've been talking
about so far (including Canada, and Central and South America).  What's worse,
there *is* no "soc.culture.american" at present, and there *are* newsgroups
named:

	soc.culture.asian.american
	soc.culture.african.american
  and	soc.culture.indian.american

so it's really too late to do things the other way, even if we wanted to.
We're not going to get folks to suddenly change the names of their news-
groups.  And I'm sure the people who created newsgroups with those names
did so for reasons similar to those I've been advancing for creating a
"soc.culture.native" hierarchy - their primary concern was an ethnic group
who happen to live in America - and they don't want those concerns to get
lost in the cultural morass of discussions focussed on America.

Further, in two of the cases just cited, there exist newsgroups one level
up from those cited, presumably to talk about the respective group of
people outside the American context (soc.culture.african and soc.culture.
indian).  Those newsgroups seem an ideal model for our new newsgroup(s).

I know you're trying to create consensus, Mike, and I appreciate your
patience and the gentle tone you're taking - but I feel I need to make it
clear what kinds of serious objections there are to anything premised on
the creation of a "soc.culture.american" newsgroup namespace.

I hope that some people in alt.native, who I would assume care more about
the subject of indigenous peoples than those who are reading these articles
in news.groups will enter into this discussion, since I feel they have as
great a stake or an even greater one in the outcome.
lost

> Within the parameters of this USENET discussion, I believe the
> common vision is quite clear: 1) the creation of a newsgroup for
> native peoples and 2) naming this group so that it is logical,
> it is good for us native people, and it is good for others like
> you who will have direct contact with it through NativeNet and
> still others who feel the name affects them in other ways.

I speak not only for NativeNet, but for my interest in the subject of
indigenous peoples and ensuring that if there is a new newsgroup or set
of newsgroups created it serve the informational needs of people inter-
ested in the subject matter, and not just adhere to the sensibilities of
those who feel themselves to be acting on behalf of Usenet namespace,
though their opinions are surely worth hearing and taking into account.

> Because we are in such a tight spot, perhaps it would be wise for
> us to put forth our own positions in a POSITIVE manner rather than
> feeling the need to chop someone else down -- in other
> words, to engage in the language of peace instead of the language
> of war.
>
> Let me know what you think, Gary.

I think I have not been trying to chop anyone down, but only to express
my reasons for feeling as I do, and to convey the sense of importance I
feel this decision potentially has.

Gary
-- 
    Gary S. Trujillo                             gst@gnosys.svle.ma.us
Somerville, Massachusetts               {wjh12,bu.edu,spdcc,ima,cdp}!gnosys!gst