HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sanders@iitmax.iit.edu (Greg Sanders)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: Rinzai vs. Soto Zen - descriptions?
Date: 14 Oct 92 17:17:42 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.44200
Distribution: world
Organization: Illinois Institute of Technology

In article <1b210cINNes7@sandman.caltech.edu> emiddlec@mora.gac.edu (Eric Middlecamp) writes:
>
>Rinzai is for the desperate. 
>Soto is for people with some calm.

Soto versus Rinzai is bogus.  They are two versions of the same thing.
     ^^^^^^

You cannot practice Zen (of any school) without calm developing.
It's inevitable.  You cannot go deep in the practice until developing
that calm, which lets you deal with the vicissitudes of life with
some equanimity and without the dealing with them upsetting your
ongoing practice.  (Zen people sometimes call this "developing a seat").

Beginners at Zen are often assigned counting the breath (from 1 to 10,
over and over) and then following the breath, as initial practices.
Actually, following the breath -- becoming one with the breath -- is a
practice that can go very deep and carry you very far: it's not just
some sort of "warmup exercise".  Breath practices are superb at
developing this sort of calm centered quality in your life, and
developing it is a necessary stage of progress in spiritual practice.
Advanced/mature practitioners of any Zen school (including Rinzai)
have a profound centered calm (above all, a "right there" quality,
being in the here and now with total attention and staying with the
here and now, not off in thoughts).

However, I don't think you can practice seriously for the long run
(and Zen is definitely "the long run" if anything is) without some
sort of inner desperation with the quality of life without practice.
You don't sit facing the wall, facing yourself, for years, plowing
through the depths of who/what you are including all the yukky delusions,
without some profound doubt about the apparent unsatisfactory quality
of life.  I think any outside observer would probably see sustained
serious Zen practice as somewhat "desperate."  This is as true of
Soto as Rinzai.  Ultimately the goal-oriented quality to sitting
vanishes and you do the practice for its own sake, seeing clearly
that every aspect of life including sitting meditation is of
infinite value.  No separation.  One with practice, one with life.

                                -- Greg
From: farris@ruhets.rutgers.edu (Lorenzo Farris)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: Rinzai vs. Soto Zen - descriptions?
Summary: that's not zen
Date: 9 Oct 92 03:17:32 GMT
Organization: ----
NNTP-Posting-Host: sandman.caltech.edu


In article <1b1o3oINNad5@sandman.caltech.edu>, emiddlec@mora.gac.edu (Eric Middlecamp) writes:
 
> In article <1aslubINN3bv@sandman.caltech.edu>  writes:
> gorilla@cats.ucsc.edu (Christopher John Arnold) writes:
> >>I was wondering if anyone can explain the differences between the
> >>two schools?
 
> There is a third school called Obaku, I believe.
> It holds that chanting the nimbutsu will "save" a
> person. When they die, they go to Nirvana..
 
That is not a Zen school, that is a Pure Land school. And they believe
that by chanting the nembutsu that they will be reborn in the Western
Paradise, reigned over by Amitabha, or Amida, where it is especially
easy to advance spiritually and attain liberation.
			-Lorenzo
-- 
"the Hell Law states that hell is reserved  
for those that believe in it, with the          Lorenzo Farris
lowest rung of hell being reserved for          farris@ruhets.rutgers.edu
those that believe in it on the supposition 
that they will go there if they don't"      
        -Principia Discordia
From: farris@ruhets.rutgers.edu (Lorenzo Farris)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: Rinzai vs. Soto Zen - descriptions?
Date: 12 Oct 92 13:01:24 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

In article <43954@ogicse.ogi.edu>, emiddlec@mora.gac.edu (Eric Middlecamp) writes:
> >That is not a Zen school, that is a Pure Land school. And they believe
> >that by chanting the nembutsu that they will be reborn in the Western
> >Paradise, reigned over by Amitabha, or Amida, where it is especially
> >easy to advance spiritually and attain liberation.
> 
> Exactly what I was thinking of. 
> Why isn't it a Zen school, may I ask? Simply because it is so different
> in practice? Do P.Landers consider themselves a "Zen school?"
> 

There is a different lineage and philosophy between Zen Buddhism and
other branchs.  You could as well ask 'Why aren't Greek Orthodox
Catholics considered protestant?' Zen places an emphasis on direct
intuitional knowledge of reality beyond reason.  Pure Landers, which
is not just one school, are looking, not to be enlightened in this
life, which they think is too hard to achieve, and too much work, but
to be reborn in a place where somehow, magically, it will be easier to
achieve liberation.
Zen is strictly concerned with what you do in this life, with
achieving enlightenment and liberation in this life, this incarnation.
It is one of the so-called short paths. I want enlightenment here and
now and will use absolutely any and all means at my disposal to
achieve it, with the help of my teacher.
Also, one of the main ideas of Zen, which I think is unique to it, is
that of sudden enlightenment.  Since enlightenment is an experience
beyond reason, no amount of thinking about it will do any good.  You
have to some how induce that epiphany in which you suddenly,
intuitively, know.
			-Lorenzo
-- 
"the Hell Law states that hell is reserved  
for those that believe in it, with the          Lorenzo Farris
lowest rung of hell being reserved for          farris@ruhets.rutgers.edu
those that believe in it on the supposition 
that they will go there if they don't"      
        -Principia Discordia
From: mw@ki.fht-mannheim.de (Marc Wachowitz)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: Becoming aware
Date: 14 Oct 92 20:06:08 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.44203
Distribution: world
Organization: Fachhochschule fuer Technik Mannheim

Roger Adams <radams@cerritos.edu> replies to 
Robin Billings <rlb@plex-1.ann-arbor.mi.us>:
: You are advocating throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
: Some tradition is bad, some good.
Hardly anyone here will doubt that some tradition is necessary (we couldn't
even speak/read/write without it :-)
The main points here seem to be authority and psychic dependencies, whether
concepts are used as mere tools or are justified (eventually enforced) only
because an authority/ideology states it, whether some belief/hope is only used
to hide some problems - of course you may want to do that ...

: You see, the idea of throwing out all authority is itself another authority.
Is there a difference whether ...
a) one drops authority/ideology because X says one should do it?
   (analogy: don't eat "forbidden" fruits)
b) one drops authority/ideology because one sees that one can live without it?
   (analogy: don't eat what's bad for your health / tastes bad)

(Look what happens when your authorities/ideologies are strongly challenged.)

There's a difference between pointing out dependencies and attacking/insulting
people because they wish to follow their authorities - the latter is indeed
trying to enforce another form of authority.

Of course this also depends on what your goals are - without examining this
first, all discussion about what may or may not be appropriate appears useless.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Marc Wachowitz, mw@ki.fht-mannheim.de   /  news zombie - reply by e-mail, too
  *  wonder everyday    *    nothing in particular    *    all is special  *
From: q1hl@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca (Nameless CS Student)
Subject: Re: I am not a bisexual!!!!
Organization: University of New Brunswick
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 20:54:06 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.233305.13530@leland.Stanford.EDU> mlloyd@westmark.Stanford.EDU (Mike Lloyd) writes:
>My favourite badge is still the simple one I have, saying "They're
>lying".

My favorite combines the pleasure of queer sexuality with the fun
of science/SF:  "If space and time are curved, where do all the
straight people come from?"

>Mike Lloyd, B0/1 h- f- t w- c g+ k+ s m- e?
Could somebody please post the Bear Codes (tm) again?  I've lost
mine, and can't remember what any of that stuff means.
-- 
Chris.
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: gpb@gpb-mac. (greg berryman )
Subject: Re: Two women please
Organization: SPS
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 02:41:07 GMT

cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Ciaran McHale) writes:
: In <1992Oct14.124615.203108@uctvax.uct.ac.za> krgjus01@uctvax.uct.ac.za writes:
:      [trash deleted]
: 
: Hah! Beat ya! I once slept with, oh, about 6 women (YES!!! count 'em!
    [cute story deleted]

: >Give me two bushes anyday!!
: 
: Emigrate to America, apply for citizenship and vote twice in the
: presidental election.
: 

No, no!! We don't need him either.  Let's find some other place to send
him.
: 
: Ciaran.
: -- 
Greg.
--
These words, opinions and mistakes are mine alone... not Motorola's.
gpb@gpb-mac.sps.mot.com  ____     B0 f-- t g- k+ s m h- r p 
Greg Berryman            \  / 
Motorola Inc.             \/      Austin, Texas, USA
From: rsr@soda.berkeley.edu (Roy S. Rapoport)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Femme/Butch in Bisexuality
Date: 14 Oct 1992 00:30:00 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley, CS Undergraduate Association
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu
Keywords: Femme Butch

In a rather recent article I said:

>The following is a tad sexually explicit ... so you probably want to close
>your eyes or something ...
>

[What I wrote deleted here for some reasons]

I posted the article, and about five minutes after I did the mental
equivalent of picking my jaw up off the floor, thinking "Oh my god, I said
THAT ?!" 

That's the problem with my brain and this newsgroup ... from time to time I
see an article that says _exactly_ what I feel, and strikes a deep chord,
making me resonate ...

The problem is that when I resonate, my brain vibrates (a singularly
pleasant experience) ... this means I just cannot think
straightwell ... so I tend to post an article along the
lines of "Yes, I agree completely, and [x]" where [x] is the part where I
make a complete and utter fool of myself.

*grin* Ferget it.

-roy
-- 
Roy S. Rapoport          rsr@soda.berkeley.edu            bdsm@ocf.berkeley.edu
    Sex is not the answer.  Sex is the question.  "*splutter* *choke* *gasp*
         *blink* Huh? Me? You _must_ be kidding" is the answer.
DISCLAIMER:  "I meant every word of it ... but nobody else did."
From: jclark@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (John Clark)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Some fears and doubts about my sexuality
Date: 7 Oct 92 17:08:40 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego

In article <BvrCFB.F2s@news.larc.nasa.gov> kludge@grissom.larc.nasa.gov (Scott Dorsey) writes:
+
+Well, I remember when the Beatles were on the pop chart, but I'm probably
+dating myself.

I'm sure that it was the linkage of a blond with a nice ass and Jan
'n Dean that I prefered them to those bozos who only wanted to hold
hands.. I wanted dead man's curve.
-- 

John Clark
jclark@ucsd.edu
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: iw@tosser.Rational.COM (The_Devine_Dolly)
Subject: Re: My first Triangle
Organization: Rational
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 20:11:55 GMT

nsn@mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU (Nick Nicholas) writes:


>ELF-D00D                              ISEULT-(attit)D00D

>   /O\   Is this an AMPALANG                _(G <-- gracefully applied lipstick
>    |    I see before me?!                    |   _
>  `-H-'   /                                 /)))--V <-- crutch - doubles as
>    U    /                                 /  |   Y                 pool cue
>   /\                                       |G|b==============) <-- aristopha-
>  _||_                                      `/ \  |                 nesque 
>                                            /   \ |                 phallus
> OOOOOOO  <-- adulating fans                -L-L- U
> MMMMMMM   o-|-<  <-- trampled Steve "Edified" Franklin


>>I can just imagine the advertising slogan:
>>	The Iseult Statuette---lovingly handcrafted out of a
>>	queen-sized, latex didlo. Crutch optional.

>Strap-on Aristophanesque phallus sold separately. Invective not included.
>Certificate of "No Sillies, Just Sexual!"-hood free with every purchase of
>L'Ogresse No 5 lipstick.

Why can't I be a talking statuette.  If you need any help with the
scripting I can always start another flame fest or three.

Do tell - is the L`Ogresse No 5 lipstick the colour of congealed blood.
I hope so - Thats what I normally wear (congealed blood that is)

Thanks for showing me what I look like - I made one minor cosmetic change -
can you spot it?

Iseult
<giggle>
From: pdc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Paul Crowley)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: I'm back, I'm back, I'm back!
Date: 13 Oct 92 10:54:51 GMT
Reply-To: pdc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Paul Crowley)
Organization: Laboratory for the Foundations of Computer Science, Edinburgh U

After a year's absence, I announce my return to the virtual world.
Virtual champagne to everybody!  I'll post some more once I've managed to
get around the sickening evil things that the CS department have done to
these computers and put in normal ones.  Unfortunately I can't rant
about this in alt.peeves any more because I don't have an account to run to.

Did anyone catch the "Kilroy" program this morning?  I thought we did rather
well except that it would have been a good idea to let the opposition get
a word in edgeways.  Kelly (the woman with the sun-like necklace) was 
particularly strong and a lot of important stuff was got across.  

Anyway, a *hug* to all you wonderful people out there.
--
  __                                ____
\/ o\ Paul Crowley pdc@dcs.ed.ac.uk \  /
/\__/ "SET ME ON FIRE!" - Big Black  \/
From: lorico@boomboom.Eng.Sun.COM (Lori Cotton)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Femme/Butch in Bisexuality
Keywords: Femme Butch
Date: 12 Oct 92 21:25:20 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: boomboom

Iseult, thank you for your definitions.  Your opinions on the Femme/Butch
issue fall in line with mine.  In women, I am attracted to butch women
I am femme to the max when with another woman.  With men, it's a 
different story.  I do not like butch men.  I guess it has to be a mixture
of both.  My SO Stacy, is butch and I wouldn't have it any other way.  I used
to go out with femme women, but being femme myself I started being the butch
side and I didn't like it.  I felt really uneasy with it, so I corrected 
it!
--
lori.cotton@west.Sun.COM	|   "If I can't be trusted with a choice, then
SunSoft, Inc.			|    how can I be trusted with a child."
Los Angeles, CA			|	Source -- Bumper Sticker
From: jclark@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (John Clark)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: My first Triangle
Date: 12 Oct 92 22:22:13 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego

In article <iw.718911214@tosser> iw@tosser.Rational.COM (The_Devine_Dolly) writes:
+nsn@ee.mu.OZ.AU (Nick Nicholas) writes:
+
+>and hurl your Iseult statuette out the window.
+
+Oooooh!  What did I look like?
+
+Iseult.

A divine Dolly of course!
(maybe a pythoness).


-- 

John Clark
jclark@ucsd.edu
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: h431@quads.uchicago.edu (heather e blair)
Subject: Re: Yay!
Reply-To: h431@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 00:03:52 GMT

In article <iw.718404710@tosser> iw@tosser.Rational.COM (Sults) writes:
>
>Well I actually do find the stubble/ no stubble thing an important
>gender difference in kissing.  I love stubble, but hate beards.  

And I feel exactly the opposite.  I love beards and hate stubble.  I nagged
two male lovers into growing beards.  
>I love
>the soft downy hair that most women have around their mouths.

My first woman lover was a surprise that way.  I hadn't thought about the
difference in the way male and female faces feel.  And it isn't just the
hair, some men have very little facial hair, and some of us women are -er-
on the way to being bears.  But it's the texture of the skin, that nice
cushy layer of fat women have beneath their skin.
  
>But I definitely find the two experiences different.

It's the same but it's different.
>
>Iseult.
>


-- 

- Heather Blair       h431@midway.uchicago.edu
From: fenthe@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: National Coming Out Day
Date: 14 Oct 92 03:55:55 GMT
Article-I.D.: drycas.1992Oct14.085556.2251
Organization: Carnegie Mellon Computer Club

In article <1bb1a2INNsku@agate.berkeley.edu>, rsr@soda.berkeley.edu (Roy S. Rapoport) writes:
> In article <1992Oct12.024253.29194@cs.cornell.edu> borah@cs.cornell.edu (Vicki Borah) writes:
> ->I don't usually post, but it is, of course, a good day for
> ->demuffining, so here I am. Happy National Coming Out Day from yet
> ->another bisexual queer cuddly person.
> ->(Fenthe/Daniel, do I get a hug now?)

 Eek! Sorry -- something strange seems to have happened, and the original
posting has ben eaten somewhere.. Aaag. 

 Much **hugs'n'snuggles'n'fluffy-type things** and many apologies for the
delay.. <grin>

 I'll do better next time. I promise. (well, I hope to manage that, at least..)

-- 
Daniel Mitchell = Fenthe Marten = fenthe@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu =
m91djm@ecs.ox.ac.uk = dmitchell@cix.compulink.co.uk = bi furry juggler
Snailmail: 18, High St // Earls Colne // Essex CO6 2PA // ENGLAND
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: jepler@nyx.cs.du.edu (Jeff Epler)
Subject: Re: Two women (and other stuff)
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 02:55:53 GMT

In article <1bhebuINNjg@agate.berkeley.edu> rsr@soda.berkeley.edu (Roy S. Rapoport) writes:
>
>In article <1992Oct14.124615.203108@uctvax.uct.ac.za> krgjus01@uctvax.uct.ac.za writes:
>->I have always fantasised about having sex with two lesbians at once as I
>->think it must be the most amazing experience imaginable. 
>
[...]
>
>Oh God ... I just realized this article is over 100 lines long ... this went
>from being a "you're clueless" sorta-gentle-flame to a piece of my mind ...
>Ack.

I had chosen to assume the guy was deliberately sounding that clueless...
Wasn't he??

Even faced with people like my dad, I still have trouble believeing that
it's possible to be as completely out of synch with reality as "that guy"
was... 

Please tell me that the original post was meant in some sort of humor? 
Please??

--
Jeff Epler          ____  bx304@cleveland.freenet.edu (Preferred)
IRC Synger          \BI/ jepler@nyx.cs.du.edu (Secondary)
Fake .SIG            \/ "A Witty Saying Proves Nothing"
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: grinch@micor.ocunix.on.ca (Dave Ferguson)
Subject: Re: Teensy Weensy Virginities
Organization: M.B. Cormier INC., Orleans (Ont)
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 02:06:26 GMT

In article <1b7uvbINNi5b@agate.berkeley.edu> rsr@soda.berkeley.edu (Roy S. Rapoport) writes:
> (My new motto is "'tis better to give than to receive.") ... 

Depends on who's giving and what's being given, I suppose.  For me, giving
and receiving each have their own merits...c(-8

>So I pretty much figured that with regards to men, I'm no longer a virgin.  

I was actually talking about gay virginity with my ex-boyfriend not too long
ago.  I figured there are four ways for a man to lose his virginity to another
man: anal active, anal passive, oral active and oral passive.  I suppose if
you're bi, there's always the fifth, i.e. vaginal.  I feel so...*accomplished*
now that I've lost my virginity *five* times...

>I came to the conclusion that virginity is not a binary value, but rather
>simply the line between what you've done v. what you haven't done ... this
>is a cool thing to realize because it means that I'm not a complete and
>utter virgin wrt either gender (of course, this also means that _very_ few
>of us are ... ) ...

Years ago when Dr. Ruth was still doing "Sexually Speaking", someone called
in with a problem about her boyfriend pressuring her to have sex.  Apparently,
they had done "everything else but...", but this woman was hung up on saving
herself for marriage.  Dr. Ruth asked her how, given all that she had done with
this guy, she could consider herself a virgin.

Just my tidbit for the day...

Dave
-- 
 D.C.X. Ferguson            ____  ____  ____   "It is not difference which 
 grinch@micor.ocunix.on.ca  \  /  \  /  \  /  immobilizes us, but silence. 
                             \/    \/    \/  And there are so many silences
 Ottawa, Ontario, Canada                    to be broken." -Audre Lorde
From: adc@threel.co.uk (Alan "D." Culloch)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Edinburgh Muffin Pops up in Bay Area
Date: 8 Oct 92 22:46:55 GMT


Eeek.  Just a quickie, I'm afraid, since it's 10.45pm and I still need to
get home and pack before getting to the airport for 8.15 tomorrow morning.

Hello to friends old and new.

Colin: my hair is _definitely_ greying, and yes, I _was_ that man in the taxi.

Orc: sorry - my loss!  <skritch><skritch>  better?

Graham: would I say that?  Anyway, you get to build up your rep. as the
man who "knows every queer in Europe!"

Hi fenthe.  Mike: hope to see you if I get five minutes free on the East
Coast...

Bye for now to one and all for six weeks or so.

Cheers,
Alan
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: sconley@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Stephen M Conley)
Subject: Re: Being un-cuddly (was Re: BiCon details ?)
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 20:53:41 GMT

In article <ALAN.92Oct16142215@pluto.osf.org> alan@osf.org (Alan Hamilton) writ
es:
>fenthe@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu writes:
>> At least, I'd assume this is why I don't seem to be being even
>> remotely cuddly of late, going on recent experience.. <sigh>
>> (6'1", 9st -> 126lbs -> 57kg. Pfeh.)
>
>SA121@phx.cam.ac.uk (Arrowsmith) writes:
>> Well, that scales to about the same as me (5'10" and 52kg) and I agree
>> that it's much too skinny, and have similar experimental evidence for
>> being un-cuddly....
>
>Ye Ghods!  You both sound exquisitely cuddly to me!

[misc. fluffy stuff]

>So, how many other people here like skinny men?  I have not been
>skinny since I was a wee babe, but I think skinny men are very cute
>and cuddly.  Actually, I have a "wide dynamic range."  I like people
>of many different types.  "Skinny male" is definitely one of them, and
>I have a special attraction to "short&skinny" and to "tall&skinny."

Oh ME TOO!  Tall skinny intellectual types!  <DROOOOOL!!>  No facial hair,
and generally not very much body hair.  Sounds to me like you two are
getting your 'experimental evidence' with the wrong people!  <*flirt!*>

Steve
"Jesus built my car.  It's a love affair. 
 Mainly Jesus, and my hotrod."
                              --Ministry, "Jesus Built My Hotrod"
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: mjw19@cl.cam.ac.uk (M.J. Williams)
Subject: Re: Two women please
Reply-To: mjw19@phx.cam.ac.uk (M.J. Williams)
Organization: 6am Digital Playground
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 23:10:04 GMT
Pastimes: Tiger Inversion!

In article <1992Oct14.172037.28782@midway.uchicago.edu> orc@amber.uucp (David Parsons) writes:
>   "Mommy, what's a killfile?"

It's a thing that you edit to get back items that you think may have
interesting responses that you just killed in disgust.

Mike.
--
_______________________________________________________________________________
 \   ^   / Michael Williams                     Part II Computer Science Tripos
  |\/|\/\  MJW19@phx.cam.ac.uk                          University of Cambridge
  |  |(__) Cymdeithas Genedlaethol Traddodiad Troi Teigrod Mwythus Ben I Waered
Newsgroups: soc.bi