From: v075q5fr@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Scott J Gorcey)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
Subject: Re: Natives Down the River (was re: ALIEN^3 Eggs on Sulaco)
Date: 15 Aug 92 22:30:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <5735@vexpert.dbai.tuwien.ac.at>, mst@vexpert.dbai.tuwien.ac.at (Markus Stumptner) writes...

}}Scott Gorcey writes:

>>      see that Ridley Scott's movie predicted all this: You can't beat
>>      the alien; it's the perfect organism.  NOTHING can beat the alien.
>>      Not big elephant motherfuckers.  Not humans.  Not Ripley.  And no
>>      matter if you think you survive, you won't -- because the alien
>>      will always find a way to fuck you up the pooper in the end.
>>      You're saying that ALIEN didn't say all this?  It did: Cameron
>>      tried to contradict it in his movie and Fincher smacked Cameron
>>      in the face with his.  

>I like that line of argument, unfortunately I cannot agree about Alien
>3.

     If you like that line of argument, why do you have a problem
     with ALIEN^3?  That line of argument is also the impetus that
     leads to the plot of ALIEN^3.

>>      WHY does everything need to be explained?  It seems like your 
>>      problem is that you JUST WON'T accept the premise

>This film does not have a deus ex machina ending,
>it has a deus ex machina premise, and it is excruciatingly clear why -
>"lets kill everybody so we can start out with tabula rasa".  You can't
>do worse.

     So you prefer films that fuck you up the ass AT THE END instead
     of the beginning?  
     But that's neither here nor there: you can't HAVE a deues ex machina
     beginning, and I think your pointing to such a nonthing says a lot
     about the opinions of people on the net about ALIEN^3.
     I liked Steven King's explanation of deues ex machina best: your
     hero is tied to a car that is about to plummet over a cliff at the
     end of the episode.  We watch it plummet over in the final frame.
     But the beginning of the next episode shows that seconds before
     the car plummets, our hero wiggles out of the (formerly very tight)
     ropes and jumps from the car to hang from the edge of the cliff,
     unhurt.  
     Perhaps you think you can label the start of ALIEN^3 deues ex machina
     because we didn't think there were eggs aboard the ship at the end
     of ALIENS.  But you can't.  Because they are not chapters in a 
     serial, but separate movies - to be taken separately; to be taken
     as non-linear sequels, even.  
     I don't think I'm going to convince anyone who can't get past the
     "Where did the egg come from then dammit!" point of view -- but it
     would be nice, for a change, if rasfm people didn't nitpick on
     stupid things, and instead notice what thoughtful details, large
     and small, WERE on the screen: and there were many.

>>      if you
>>      did accept the premise, you'd love the movie

>This is like saying if you can accept the dialogue of "Plan 9 from
>Outer Space" as art, the you can accept that film as art.  Sure, but
>nobody stoops to that level.

     Okay, granted - but I think even you would admit that there are
     a lot of I.Q. points separating PLAN 9 and ALIEN^3, for Christ's
     sake.

    [Deleted: talking about an Alien 3 in which the company retrieves
     eggs and brings them back to Earth; where Ripley, Hicks and Newt
     awaken to find Earth infested]
>>   What a shitty movie that would make.  That's a cliche - you know?
    [Deleted: The 'While our intrepid heroes enjoy much deserved slumber,
     evil company elements elsewhere conspire to bring the insidious
     alien organism to earth...]

>It pales in comparison with the "deadly monster propagates in an
>unexplained manner to pursue the survivors of a wrecked ship (fourth
>in a row, btw) stranded on an uncivilized planet" cliche.

     I don't agree at all...  Markus, can't you see it: ALIEN^3 as it is
     stands on its own, so can't be accused of having a deues ex machina
     premise -- because it's not chapter 3 in a cliffhanger serial.  But
     this premise of Aliens on earth - which you seemed to like - WOULD
     be guilty of a deues ex machina premise for the same reason: because
     it would be treated as a continuation of ALIENS, not a new film.

     I think that's symptomatic of why so many people failed to
     appreciate ALIEN^3: too many of you wanted, needed, expected
     another two and a half hours to attach onto the end of ALIENS,
     and when you didn't get it, you threw tantrums.

     Scott Gorcey
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