Newsgroups: bit.listserv.hellas
Date:         Mon, 13 Apr 1992 15:51:53 EDT
Reply-To:     L Irakliotis <IRAKLIOT@MIAMIU.BITNET>
From:         L Irakliotis <IRAKLIOT@MIAMIU.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Ekpaideush
Comments: To: AFILINDR@CC.BRYNMAWR.EDU
              13 Apr 1992 12:40:00 EST from <AFILINDR@CC.BRYNMAWR.EDU>

On Mon, 13 Apr 1992 12:40:00 EST AFILINDR@CC.BRYNMAWR.EDU said:
>     Mporei sthn  ellada na mathainoume pente  pramata mathhmatika kai
>     fusikh AN mas pesei kalos kathhghths kai AN akolouthoume th desmh
>     alla:

Prokeitai  gia  kauara  statistiko  fainomeno.  Se  opoia  xwra  ki  an
breueis,  exeis tis  idies  piuanothtes  na soy  pesei  kalos 'h  kakos
kauhghths gia  ta antistoixa  dedomena. Den  einai mono  "pronomio" twn
ellhnwn  mauhtwn  ayto  kai  synepws den  apotelei  epixeirhma  se  mia
syzhthsh san ki ayth.

>     1.To susthma  eisagwghs sto  Ellhniko Panepisthmio  epitrepei thn
>     eisodo   mono  tou   enos   tritou  twn   eksetasthentwn.(130,000
>     eksetasthentes tha  einai fetos kai  oi theseis einai  40,700 kai
>     6,545 apo  autes pane stous  apofoitous twn TEL  kai Polukladikwn
>     pou mpainoun sta TEI xwris eksetaseis.  BHMA 9.3.92).

Ayto pali  ti shmainei;  Ap'osa grafeis fainetai  pws pisteyeis  oti ta
panepisthmia de mporoyn na dextoyn  tosoys foithtes. Mhpws apo thn allh
omws  shmainei pws  exoyme perissoteroys  ypochfioys foithtes  ap'osoys
xreiazomaste. Ki  an einai ayth h  periptwsh, tote poia einai  ta aitia
ths; Mhpws dhladh  ua prepei na koitame pros oles  tis kateyuynseis kai
oxi  ekei poy  anagkastika stoxeyei  o ekpaideytikos  neoploytismos poy
parathroyme stis alles xwres;

>     Apotelesma;  To  ena trito  twn  Ellhnwn  foithtwn brisketai  sto
>     ekswteriko.  Exei  upologistei oti  me  to  sunallagma pou  xanei
>     kathe  xrono  h xwra,  tha  mporousame  mesa  se liga  xronia  na
>     beltiwsoume aperiorista to ekpaideutiko mas xali.

Kala! Kai me to synallagma poy exane  kaue xrono h Ellada gia thn agora
antallaktikwn gia  metaxeirismena aytokinhta,  ua mporoysame  na eixame
agorasei  oikopeda  sto feggari.  Omws,  o  kosmos arxise  na  agorazei
kainoyria  aytokinhta ekmetalleyomenos  tis  eyergetikes diatajeis  toy
nomoy peri  aposyrshs alla kai  pali xrhmata den  ejoikonomhuhkan dioti
oydepote h  Ellada eixe eunikh  politikh gia diafora zhthmata  kai etsi
allh mia  eykairia phge xamenh.  To loipon, ama mazecoyme  toys Ellhnes
foithtes   toy   ejwterikoy,   sthn   Ellada,  mh   nomizeis   pws   ua
ejoikonomisoyme  xrhmata gia  na beltiwsoyme  to ekpaideytiko  systhma.

>     Prosfato paradeigma o Ellhnas tou  opoiou to onoma mou diafeugei,
>     o opoios phre to Nompel prin duo-tria xronia.

"From the City  I am coming and  at the peak Rizogalon".  Ektos apo ton
Seferh kai ton Elyth proswpika den  gnwrizw alloys ellhnes poy na exoyn
timhuei me to brabeio Nobel.



>     2.To  susthma  didaskalias  sth  mesh  ekpaideush  einai  entelws
>     aparxaiwmeno,   antipaideutiko  kai   genikws  aparadekto   giati
>     apokleiei thn ethelontikh summetoxh tou  mathhth. Kai as mh poume
>     tipote gia  thn kserh  apomnhmoneush katebatwn pou  den prosferei
>     apolutws  tipote sthn  pneumatikh  anaptuksh  tou mathhth.  Eseis
>     oloi  pou  apo  thn  prwth  dhmotikou  mexri  thn  trith  lukeiou
>     mathainate to mathhma "neraki", twra ti thumaste;

O ypofainomenos, uymatai gia parafeigma  poY kai pote prepei na mpainei
bareia,  pWs  na anagnwrizei  egklhtika, poia  einai h  prwteyoysa  toy
Soydan,  poses mones  exei to  Agio Oros,  poio einai  to ycometro  toy
Olympoy  (ayto  ki  o  Kontajakhs  to  jerei  :-)),  pWs  syntiuetai  o
mhle.i.nikos  anydryths, poies  lejeis  dasynontai, ti  einai h  genikh
xaristikh,  pws  briskoyme  tis  lyseis toy  triwnoymoy  me  bash  toys
syntelestes  toy kai  antistrofa, ti  einai h  synuesh synarthsewn,  ti
einai kybwtismos, giati o Omhros  apokalei thn Auhna "bo.i.domata", pWs
o  Dareios  egine  basilias  twn Perswn  (kablwse  ena  arseniko  alogo
boytWntas to  xeri toy sto moyni  ths foradas kai koynwntas  to mprosta
sth myth  toy epibhtora), kai  alla polla.  Kai oxi pws  eimoyn kanenas
mauhths ths  prokophs (nai men  teleiwsa me  19.8 alla oloi  jerete pWs
mpainoyn oi baumoi sto lykeio).

Enw  antiueta t'amerikanakia  exoyn problhma  na broyne  to Texas  ston
xarth, alla den peirazei. To  ekpaideytiko toys systhma den apaitei "to
mauhma neraki".


>     3. ta biblia einai apo  kakogrammena mexri entelws aparadekta kai
>     dustuxws  oi  kathhghtes  den  exoun  allh  epilogh  para  na  ta
>     didaksoun.  Opoios   exei  riksei   mia  matia  sto   biblio  ths
>     koinwniologias ths  G' Lukeiou h  to perifhmo kokkino  biblio ths
>     Istorias  (auto pou  katarghsane  perisu) kserei  gia poio  prama
>     milaw.

Wraia.  Exoyme   dyo  kat'ejoxhn   aparadekta  biblia  kai   m'ayto  to
epixeirhma rixnoyme sthn  pyra *ola* ta sxolika biblia.  Lampra. Me thn
idia logikh loipon,  epeidh ta biblia fysikhs toy  lykeioy einai ejoxa,
tote ola ta  lykeiaka biblia einai ejoxa, ara poY  blepeis to problhma;


>     H  ekmathhsh  ths Ellhnikhs  glwssas  (h  dhmotikh egine  epishmh
>     glwssa tou kratous  tw swthriw etei 1982) se  polla sxoleia einai
>     apo elleiphs  ews xeiristh- eksartatai sunhthws  apo to filologo.
>     ma epitrepetai na bazoume  mathhtes na apomnhmoneuoun dokimia tou
>     Papanoutsou  gia...   na  mathoun  na   grafoun  ektheseis;!!Etsi
>     entharrunoume thn eleutherh skepsh kai ekfrash;

H dhmotikh egine  epishmh glwssa toy kratoys EN swthriw  etos 1976. Esy
omws  oyte me  thn kauareoysa  ta pas  kala blepw.  To 1982  eixame thn
kauierwsh toy monotonikhs grafhs --- exei diafora.

An den s'aresei  o Papanoytsos mhpws ua mporoyses na  proteineis pWs ua
htan dynato  na enuarrynoyme thn  eleyuerh skech kai ekfrash.  Dioti ta
keimena toy Papanoytsoy kai twn  loipwn dokimiografwn de didaskontai me
skopo na kauodhghsoyn  th skech alla gia na dwsoyn  glwssika efodia sto
mauhth.  Kaneis   den  amfisbhtei  pws   o  E.Papanoytsos  'h   o  I.M.
Panagiwtopoylos  xeirizontai thn  Koinh Ellhnikh  me ejairetikh  texnh.


>     5.  Ston   tomea  twn   episthmwn  den  uparxoun   ergasthria  me
>     apotelesma  oi  mathhtes  na  periorizontai kai  edw  sthn  kserh
>     apomnhmoneush thewrhmatwn  kai allwn  tinwn. Kai  oi perissoteroi
>     pou kseroun  pente pramata  ta mathane  sto frontisthrio  gia tis
>     Panelladikes.

Dhladh  ta  frontisthria  diauetoyn   ergasthria;  Gia  janadiabase  to
parapanw poy molis egraces kai skecoy to ligo.


>     6.  Ston  tomea  twn  texnwn  ta  Ellhnika  sxoleia  exoun  maura
>     mesanuxta. Me mia wra texnikwn  (thn plakas) thn ebdomada, ti tha
>     matheis; Apo kei  kai pera, to theatroh mousikh,  h fwtografia, h
>     sinematografia einai  gia tous  ligous kai eklektous  pou mporoun
>     kai briskoun  kapoies wres  anamesa se frontisthrio  kai sxoleio.

PWs  na thn  afhsw etsi  th  rhmada th  "sinematografia" poy  amolhses;
Kaneis kai kyrhgma  gia th glwssa apo panw! Gia  ejhghse moy omws kati:
pWs  ermhneyeis  to  gegonos   pws  oi  Ellhnes  agorazoyn  perissotera
logotexnika biblia apo toys  Amerikanoys (se posostiaies analogies), th
stigmh  poy  den  lambanoyn  anurwpistikh paideia  s'antiuesh  me  toys
Amerikanoys?


>     7. Oi  mathhtes kalountai na  epileksoun thn kateuthhnsh  pou tha
>     akolouthhsoun sthn  hlikia twn 16 etwn.  Oi perissoteroi 16xronoi
>     den  einai  arketa  wrimoi  kai  katastalagmenoi  wste  na  exoun
>     apofasisei ti akribws theloun na ginoun.

Mhpws gnwrizeis kapoia xwra 'h  kapoio allo ekpaideytiko systhma opoy o
mauhths apofasizei se mia pio wrimh hlikia gia to ti ua ginei;

>     8.  To panepisthmiako  mpaxalo:  Se polles  sxoles oi  kathhghtes
>     oute kan  patane gia tis partadoseis--profanws  to exoun dedomeno
>     oti oute  oi foithtes tha  pa- thsoun afou apousies  den mpainoun
>     outws h allws.  Opoios endiaferetai, as rwthsei  foithtes twn TEI
>     tou Aigalew.

Ki  an kanenas  rwthsei  toys  foithtes toy  Fysikoy  Iwanninwn opoy  o
Papagewrgopoylos  kanei mauhma  kai me  enan foithth,  ti ua  prepei na
symperanei;  Epeidh kapoios  kapoy kapote  moy eipe  pws toy  eipan oti
akoysan  pws  isws  kati  trexei   sta  gyftika,  amesws  bgazoyme  kai
symperasma gia olo  to DEP se ola ta  ellhnika tritobaumia ekpaideytika
idrymata;

Kai pername sth megalh kotsana twra:

>     12. H  apomakrunsh twn kaluterwn  ekpaideutikwn (Panepisthmiakwn)
>     kai h  topothethsh tous  tshn  EAGE (Ethnikh  Akadhmia Grammatwn
>     kai Episthmwn)  h opoia  einai to  anwtato sumbouleutiko  swma se
>     themata anwtaths ekpaideushs sto  Ypourgeio Ethnikhs Paideias kai
>     Thrhskeumatwn.  Sumfwna me  to nomo  1268/82, oi  kathhghtes meta
>     perissotera  prosonta ginontai  "full-time"  melh ths  Akadhmias,
>     pragma pou  tous apokleiei apo  th didaskalia. Exoume  pou exoume
>     ligous kalous, tous pairnoume kai  apo ta Panepisthmia kai menoun
>     oi  anikanoi  na  didaksoun   tous  foithtes.  Epipleon  o  idios
>     "sosialistikotatos" nomos epishmopoiei to  "fakelaki" gia ta melh
>     ths EAGE agou epitrepei th suggrafh suggramatwn kai ergasiwn panw
>     se  themata "ethnikhs  shmasias" epi  plhrwmi. Dustuxws,  o nomos
>     den  ekshgei  oute  ti  tha pei  "ethnikh  shmasia",  oute  poios
>     plhrwnei.  (Marwniths,  BHMA  28.8.1982)

Prwta ap'ola,  prin kaneis "quote" to  D.N. Marwnith, kalo ua  einai na
eisai bebaih  gia ti milas.  Opote ua mporoyses  n'arxiseis diabazontas
to "XWRIS ANEMOSKALA" apo tis ekdoseis Kedros.

Meta, ua prepei na pas sto news-stand ths geitonias soy kai na deis thn
hmeromhnia  stis efhmerides.  An  prosejeis kala  ua  deis pws  grafoyn
"April  13,  1992".  Dioti  edw  kai 10  xronia  oydepote  ekdouhke  to
apaitoymeno  proedriko diatagma  gia  thn synuesh  ths  EAGE kai  einai
amfibolo an pote ua idryuei tetoio swma.

Parapera, akoma ki an yphrxe EAGE,  oi kauhghtes melh ths EAGE, pantote
symfwna me  ton 1262/82 diathroyn  tis didaktikes ypoxrewseis  toys sta
oikia  ekpaideytika  idrymata  kai   apalassontai  apo  aytes  mono  an
yphretoyn se dioikhtiko organo ths akadhmias.

Telos,  prin proteineis  se mas  ti na  melethsoyme, kalo  ua einai  na
frontiseis prwta  na enhmerwueis gia to  ti egine kai kyriws  gia to ti
den egine apo to 1982 ki epeita.

Filika,
Leonidas
Miami OH Physics
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