HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: GD.SAR@forsythe.stanford.edu (Sandy Rockowitz)
Subject: Re: GA directory move bug?
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 23:58:31 GMT

In article <1992Apr10.195842.24079@muddcs.claremont.edu>,
jokim@jarthur.claremont.edu (John H. Kim) writes:
>
>Is it possible to take the file manager from 1.3 and add it as an
>OS/2 app to 2.0?  Which files are needed?

I'm running the 1.3 file manager under 2.0, which like many others I
find much easier to use.  (What a depressing comment:  it's hardly a
gem of a file manager.) If I recall correctly (not having my OS/2
system here), you need to copy PMFILE.EXE to a directory in your
PATH, and PMFILE.DLL to a directory in your LIBPATH.   Then go ahead
and create an icon for it on your desktop.

>While I'm at it, how do you set as default which type of window -
>Icon, Tree, or Detail - comes up by default when you double click?
>Icon looks nice, but Detail is much more useful when dealing with
>the "Drives" object.

This can be done by changing the settings for the object. Exactly
which I don't recall, but I've done it.

Sandy Rockowitz
gd.sar@forsythe.stanford.edu
From: easyrob@cs.utexas.edu (Robert Depew Reynolds)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
Subject: Re: Borland C++ for OS/2 v.2.0
Date: 15 Apr 1992 18:18:12 -0500
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: coltexo.cs.utexas.edu

Borland should do like they do now and offer TURBO C++ for OS/2 which
will generate only 32 bit OS/2 code, PM and text mode, and BORLAND C++
for all those people who really need to develop for those other archaic
OS's like DOS and Windows(I know Windows isn't an OS) 8-)


/===========================================================================\
|  Robert D. Reynolds               |      You may choose      GOOD         |
|  easyrob@cs.utexas.edu <INTERNET  |      any TWO you         /  \         |
|  (512) 345-8509        <TELEPHONE |      wish!              /    \        |
|====================================================\       /      \       |
|  I have been known to work, but I have never been  |      /        \      |
|  known to speak for an employer or even like 'em   |    FAST ---- CHEAP   |
|  most of the time.  Well there is PAYDAY!  :-)     |                      |
|                                                    | exception: OS/2 2.0  |
\===========================================================================/
From: solomon@triton.ColoSpgs.NCR.COM (Richard L. Solomon)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
Subject: Question on OS/2 2.0 and DOS5 Extended partitions
Summary: Can I install OS/2 on a logical drive in an extended partition?
Keywords: extended partition, logical drives
Date: 14 Apr 92 14:28:45 GMT
Reply-To: Richard.Solomon@ColoSpgs.NCR.COM (Richard L. Solomon)
Organization: NCR Microelectronic Products Division


	I'm leaning strongly toward ordering the OS/2 2.0 upgrade from DOS.
However I wonder about support for DOS5 extended partitions.  My 101M disk
is split into a 32MB (DOS3.3-type) Primary partition and a 69MB extended
partition.  The extended partition is split into a 32MB logical drive and
a 37MB logical drive.  I'd like to put OS/2 on the 37MB "drive" and maintain
a dual-boot system........DreamWare????

	Do I have to install OS/2 on a primary partition?  Is it possible
to make a logical drive in an extended partition bootable?

Please reply via e-mail as this newsgroup is overflowing with traffic, I will
of course post a summary of replies to the net.

Thanks in advance,


-----

Richard Solomon
Richard.Solomon@ColoSpgs.NCR.COM
From: pebly@VNET.IBM.COM (Bob Pebly)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
Subject: News from L.A. OS/2 Celebration and COMDEX announcement
Date: 8 Apr 92 00:45:29 GMT
Reply-To: pebly@vnet.ibm.com
Organization: IBM Industrial Sector Division, Boca Raton, FL

In <1992Apr7.225834.5596@cheshire.oxy.edu> David R. Giller writes:
>I just got back from the OS/2 rollout at the Westin Bonaventure in downtown
>L.A.
>
>Surprises:
>
>Windows 3.1 compatibility is done!!  I didn't catch whether the CSDs were
>done, or iff all currently-printing copies of OS/2 will have the Windows
>3.1 version of WinOS2, but Reiswig demonstrated running multimedia apps
>under a 3.1 version of WinOS2.
>

Not exactly.  What Reiswig showed at the end was a copy of Windows 3.1
running in an OS/2 DOS Session.  Windows 3.1 support isn't in the OS/2
driver (yet).  It was still an impressive statement about the OS/2
virtual DOS sessions that a copy of Windows 3.1 was shown running under
OS/2 a day after 3.1 was available.

Bob Pebly

Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's view, not those of IBM.
From: sip1@ellis.uchicago.edu (Timothy F. Sipples)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
Subject: Re: Windows as an OS Again
Date: 8 Apr 92 17:19:15 GMT
Reply-To: sip1@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: Dept. of Econ., Univ. of Chicago

In article <1992Apr8.111845.6182@news.Hawaii.Edu> tholen@galileo.ifa.hawaii.edu (Dave Tholen) writes:
>> One of his early points was that while the OS/2 code was golden
>> they were running lots of beta code in the form of new 32-bit applications.
>> I wondered why that really mattered for an environme..  I mean operating
>> system.. as robust as OS/2.
>Now wouldn't it be one heck of an operating system, if it could automatically
>fix bugs in application software.  No doubt NT will have this feature.
>(Come on Jeff, you can do better than that.)
>Seriously, somebody else believes he saw Lee only single click Reversi rather
>than double clicking.  How he thinks he could tell, I don't know; I wasn't
>there (and I'm quite envious).  Even if there were a bug, I wouldn't hold
>it against them.  When has Microsoft ever released any "golden" code of a
>new product that was bug free?  I certainly haven't encountered any yet.

I was sitting in the audience in Chicago and, as far as I could tell,
the problem was the Lee wanted to show off Reversi (or something)
running at the same time as the multimedia demonstration.  His request
for this took the person running the machine off guard, and by the
time he was (humanly) prepared to go over and start Reversi the short
animation clip had concluded (rendering the exercise moot anyhow).
-- 
Timothy F. Sipples       Keeper of the OS/2 Frequently Asked Questions
sip1@ellis.uchicago.edu  List, available via anonymous ftp from
Dept. of Economics       128.123.35.151, directory pub/os2/faq, or via
Univ. of Chicago  60637  netmail from LISTSERV@BLEKUL11.BITNET.
From: mendelsohn@amber.mgh.harvard.edu (Andrew Mendelsohn)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
Subject: Re: News from L.A. OS/2 Celebration and COMDEX announcement
Date: 8 Apr 92 02:39:00 GMT
Organization: Molecular Biology, Massachusetts General Hospital, Boston
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <9204080043.AA20077@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU>, pebly@vnet.ibm.com writes...
>In <1992Apr7.225834.5596@cheshire.oxy.edu> David R. Giller writes:
>>I just got back from the OS/2 rollout at the Westin Bonaventure in downtown
>>L.A.
>>
>>Surprises:
>>
>>Windows 3.1 compatibility is done!!  I didn't catch whether the CSDs were
>>done, or iff all currently-printing copies of OS/2 will have the Windows
>>3.1 version of WinOS2, but Reiswig demonstrated running multimedia apps
>>under a 3.1 version of WinOS2.
>>
> 
>Not exactly.  What Reiswig showed at the end was a copy of Windows 3.1
>running in an OS/2 DOS Session.  Windows 3.1 support isn't in the OS/2
>driver (yet).  It was still an impressive statement about the OS/2
>virtual DOS sessions that a copy of Windows 3.1 was shown running under
>OS/2 a day after 3.1 was available.
> 
>Bob Pebly 
This is interesting. I thought OS/2 DOS boxes could only support DPMI
Extended clients which WIN3.1 is not.  Does this mean that OS/2 will
soon be able to run non-DPMI clients, e.g., VCPI clients or Windows enhanced
mode apps, or the upcoming WIn32s programs.
Andy Mendelsohn
mendelsohn@frodo.mgh.harvard.edu
From: harris@morris.catt.ncsu.edu (Michael Harris)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
Subject: Re: Does OS/2 2.0 Need a Mouse?
Date: 7 Apr 92 04:28:10 GMT
Organization: North Carolina State University

You are not required to have a mouse.  However, I think that you will find that
certain things are extremely frustrating without a mouse if not impossible.
For example, In 1.3 and before, you couldn't edit an icon with the icon
editor without a mouse.  If they have removed that restriction, it must be
a real pain to do so without a mouse.

Also, in 6.304 (not sure if in GA) you couldn't move workplace shell objects
on the screen without a mouse.  (ie. no support for drag-drop without a
mouse.)


______________________________________________________________________________
     Michael Harris - harris@catt.ncsu.edu or harris@carvm3.vnet.ibm.com
 Vice-President, Computer and Technologies Theme Program, NC State University
(My opinions are my own and do not represent those of NCSU or IBM Corporation)
From: pathak@mitre.org (Heeren Pathak)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
Subject: Re: Benefits of OS/2?
Date: 15 Apr 92 13:45:48 GMT
Article-I.D.: linus.1992Apr15.134548.23000
Followup-To: comp.os.os2.misc
Organization: Mitre Corporation

In article <rdippold.703303477@cancun>, rdippold@cancun.qualcomm.com (Ron
Dippold) wrote:
> 
> ry01@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (ROBERT YUNG) writes:
> >>The other type of multitasking is all the little things that are
> >>running. For example the clock, the screen saver, the keyboard locker,
> >>the free memory counter, the eyes that follow the cursor, your
> >>favorite Unix cron clone, your pop-up meeting reminder, etc.
> 
> >Can't I have a clock, screen saver, keyboard locker, and a ton of other TSR's
> >running in Dos to serve the same purpose???
> 
> Certainly, if you a) can spare the memory that could be used by your
> applications instead (and/or can fit them all in high memory if you
> have a 386), and b) can get them to work together and with all your
> different software (good luck with the clock and memory counter,
> forget the cron).
> 
> And then don't try to do two things at once (format a stack of
> floppies while you word process, say).   Much of this stuff you can
> just get using DesqView or Windows, actually, but not as efficiently
> and as safe.  And it isn't OS/2's only advantage, certainly.

Actually, IMHO the clock, screen saver, etc... example was a bad one. 
Let me offer a different one. Hopefully, it will better illustrate how
preemptive multi-tasking is useful.

I got the GA the other day and installed it.  Then I logged into my UNIX
account at work via a 2400 baud modem and started downloading stuff.  After
each thing was finished downloading, I would unzip it and test it out.
Testing could mean running it if it was an application or installing the
font and checking out how it looked.  Since the download time took longer
than the time required to test out the software, I also was using Quattro
to balance my checkbook.

In the background, I had running a system load indicator, a clock updating
every second, an eyes program that track the cursor, and neko "the cat"
trying to catch the cursor.

Despite having a large number of things going, the downloading occured without
any errors.  If I try to do anything useful while downloading under
Windows, the system ends up dropping a large number of packets. So I would
end up walking away from my machine until the download was finished.

--Heeren
From: prao@ucsb.edu (Parik Rao)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
Subject: Re: Whoops... bad driver in CONFIG.SYS
Date: 16 Apr 92 23:41:10 GMT
Reply-To: prao@bluemoon.ucsb.edu
Organization: U.C. Santa Barbara


 Thanks Bob!  That worked great.  BTW, Gerry (who suggested hitting ESC
at the install procedure), that didn't work out.  I don't know exactly what
happened, but apparently when you boot the install program it recognizes
FAT drives only.  When I C:'d and dir a DIR, it said "unrecognized drive
format".  

 For those who are on novell networks, IBM & Novell did ship the OS/2 requester
as of a few days ago.  The beta was removed from CI$ I believe.  Its pretty
good, the install program is very nice.  There are a very limited number
of NIC drivers unfortunately, does anyone know what type of format they are
in?  NDIS?  I just hope network manufacturers make the drives, two prominant
missing ones are WesternDigital/SMC and Cabletron.  :(

--
parik rao				                 prao@bluemoon.ucsb.edu
From: barrett@holly.gatech.edu (James Barrett)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
Subject: Re: There is no EXPEDITE!
Date: 6 Apr 92 21:38:12 GMT
Reply-To: barrett@cc.gatech.edu
Organization: Georgia Tech College of Computing

Rumor has it you can purchase v2.0 from a dealer and get refunded difference
of upgrade if you send in your Windows title page.

---------------------OS/2 v2.0 -- It's heeeeerrrreee!!!!!-----------------------
James C. Barrett (barrett@cc.gatech.edu)| "I'm speechless....             
Georgia Tech College of Computing       |  I am without speech."              
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
From: meyer@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Don Meyer)
Subject: Re: Does OS/2 2.0 support Bernoulli drives
Organization: UIUC College of Agriculture
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 15:51:47 GMT

rodgers@engcon.marshall.ltv.com (KMRODGERS) writes:

>The subject line says is all: Is support for Bernoulli Boxes (specifically,
>the 44 meg internal drives) included in OS/2 2.0?  I don't need to boot from
>the Bernoulli, but it constitutes a primary part of my system and I _cannot_
>run OS/2 until it has Bernoulli support.

Iomega sells its OS/2 driver separately, you have to buy it from them.  I
didn't see the announcement of commercial availability for their OS/2 v2 
drivers, but they are (were) in beta testing, and they work fine under the
last two beta versions.  (Haven't gotten GA code yet...)  

Their drivers for version 1.X will _not_ work under version 2.0 -- they freely
admitted to me that they did some naughty things with that driver, things that
are fixed in the current beta version.

My advice is to contact them directly -- the number should be in your docs, I 
don't have mine handy.  If the person you talk to soesn't know anything about
the OS/2 v2.0 drivers, you can ask to speak to Trent Thomas, he's on the v2.0
driver project.  If anyone knows the current status, he will.

Good Luck,
Don
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
	Don Meyer			dlmeyer@uiuc.edu
	 Network Manager, UIUC College of Ag Microcomputer Facility

"He who restricts another's right to self-defense is accomplice to
 any crime committed because of the lack of self defense." 

member: NRA, ISSC, IL Farm Bureau	"Don't blame me, I voted Libertarian!"
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
From: prs@turing.acs.virginia.edu (Phillip R. Scarr)
Subject: Re: DOS Program Icons Under OS/2 - How?
Organization: The Turing Project, Charlottesville Virginia.
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 13:15:10 GMT

In article <1992Apr16.123549.12196@njitgw.njit.edu> dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap) writes:
>In article <1992Apr15.021800.4792@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> prs@turing.acs.virginia.edu (Phillip R. Scarr) writes:
>>I converted a bunch of these rad icons which were originally in .nil
>>(Norton Icon Library) format and I may post them to comp.binaries.os2
>>one of these days. 
>
>Watch out.  If these icons are shipped with a Norton product, there
>may be a copyright on the files.  Find out before posting OS/2
>versions to a public forum.

Sorry, quite right.  I should have been more clear.  These are freeware
icons in the .nil format that someone did on his own using the norton
icon editor.  They are totally in the public domain.  Problem is, in the
switch to OS/2 I think I may have deleted the files...
>
>
>
>
>-- 
>David Charlap                   Q:"Where do these stairs go?"
>dic5340@hertz.njit.edu          A:"They go up"
>----------------------------
>Hi! I am a .signature virus. Copy me into your .signature to join in!

	-Phil
Date: Tuesday, 14 Apr 1992 08:00:59 EST
From: Nick Laflamme <NLAFLAMM@vma.cc.nd.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
Subject: Re: Is a 16MHz 386sx with a 65 Meg HD enough for OS/2 2.0???

I have an IBM PS/2 55sx:  16 Mhz, 4 MB RAM, 58+ MB.  It is only barely,
barely adequate as a Windows replacement.  At this point I'm backing off
any OS/2 applications or applets.  Mostly this is because my hard disk
is filling up, which is aggravated by the relative lack of RAM.  (Less
RAM, more swapper.dat or whatever it's called.)

My 55 has only four things wrong with it as an OS/2 machine:  arguably
too slow, narrow data path (should have gone for the DX and the 32 bit
path?), slow, small disk drive, and not enough RAM.

I had the opportunity to evaluate an AOX accelerator card with a
486DX/25 and another 8 MB of RAM.  *That's* a nice upgrade; it leaves me
fighting just the slow, almost full disk drive.

Forget TCP/IP for OS/2 on a minimal 55sx, by the way.  Without the extra
RAM on the AOX board, OS/2 pages literally constantly with TCP/IP
installed.  I've backed out TCP/IP until I can get more RAM.

My personal recommendation is to start with at least 80 MB (120 is what
I'd go for these days) and 8MB; RAM is so cheap, why stop at 6?  I don't
have a strong feel for how much CPU you need; I still believe I'm much
more constrained by the RAM/Disk situation than by the 386sx.

As I said, I'm inclined to keep OS/2 on this system, but only as a
better Windows than Windows.  Last time I tried to reinstall DOS and
Windows, I messed up something and kept getting UAEs.  Seriously.

Sigh....

Nick
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
From: abuhr@owlnet.rice.edu (Aaron M. Buhr)
Subject: TAME under OS/2?
Organization: Rice University
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 20:28:32 GMT


      Does anyone know if the multitasking aid TAME will work under OS/2,
and if so, will it help?  For those that don't know, TAME monitors DOS program
activity and senses when the program is in an idle loop and switches to the
next task.  At the moment, I'm just curious, 'cause I still can't find OS/2
2.0 anywhere (and I don't like to wait 4-6 weeks for orders).  Thanks in 
advance.


Aaron Buhr
(abuhr@owlnet.rice.edu)


Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
From: andy@huey.jpl.nasa.gov (Andy Poulsen)
Subject: ATI Ultra in 256 color mode?
Organization: JPL Optical Interferometry Group, ...
Distribution: comp
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 16:46:20 GMT

What is required to get an ATI Ultra into 256 color mode at 1024x768?
I'm using the 8514 driver that comes standard, but it seems to only be
in 16 color mode.  Any ideas?

andy

--
andy poulsen                   *
jpl 169-214/pasadena, ca 91109 *      we engineers have a saying:  
(818) 354-8033                 *
andy@huey.jpl.nasa.gov         *    we may be dumb, but we're slow...
 
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
From: dano@usl.edu (Dan Stephenson)
Subject: OS/2 2.0 Demo SLOOOOOOOOOOW
Summary: It was realyl slow.
Keywords: OS/2 2.0 Demo 
Organization: Univ. of Southwestern Louisiana
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 15:48:04 GMT


I stopped by an IB dealer this morning to see a demo of OS.2 2.0.
It was a 386/25 PS/2 with 6 megs.

And,..it was damn slow.  Maybe the hard drive had an awful access
time,..
mayne the VGA xrd was shitty,...but needless to say it was slow.

The employeee who demoed it for me even said 'it's do lots of
disk-swapping right now.'

And I tell you-window redraws was ABYSSMAL!  Even Os/2ers harp
how bad 'Windoze' is,..but Windows sure redraws better for me,...

I relly want to get OS/2 2.0 and have it work,..but
even though my 386 is at 33Mhz/no cache and plain old 512 VGA card,
it only has *4* mgs RAM.

I will buy more RAM this summer with my summer job (duhh) if i know it
will run smoother with more memory,..

So hoow much memory SHOULD I have? I was really depressed with the IBM
dealer even said I ought tol have at LEAST 6 megs,..maybe more.

WEould 8 megs be enough?  Sure RAM is 'cheap', but buying 12 more megs
would et kinda costly al lthe same, y'know?

RSVP       

_Dan
.

--
Daniel Anthony Stephenson, player of Praetorius, namer of The Solarium.
dano@srl01.cacs.usl.edu das9674@usl.edu
"I can be, what I want to, and all I need is to get my boogie
down"- Al Jarreau.
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
From: rcain@netcom.com (Robert Cain)
Subject: Whats the story on printing?
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 04:53:05 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

Has the "Cannot open LPT1" problem been fixed on GA or am I stuck buying
another ser/par card?
-- 
Bob Cain    rcain@netcom.com   408-358-2007

"There are some strings.  They're just not attached."
                                                    Victoria Roberts
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
From: tanith@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Michael D Kretzer)
Subject: Re: Is formating a must?
Originator: tanith@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Reply-To: tanith@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 14:43:11 GMT

From article <_rsjxgl.rcain@netcom.com>, by rcain@netcom.com (Robert Cain):
> When overinstalling GA over 6.304 *must* I actually format.  Is it not
> possible to just erase some directories (from the install diskette with
> MKS "rm -rf") and leave my real files the hell alone.  I have a whole bunch
> of stuff to install but am sitting here waiting for GA because I'll be damned
> If I'll do it over when much of it must be heavily customized for use. Help.

No, it's not a 'must'...backup your .INI files if you have folder settings
you would like to save (also make copies of your CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT--
the install program will rename them to *.BAK, but you can't be too sure),
then just drop the OS2 folder on your boot drive into the shredder.

I did this myself and installed GA fine...actually you can probably get
along with merely deleting the folder directories from 6.304, but I 
haven't tried this myself.

This is only a problem if you are installing over a previous OS/2 2.0
beta version...installing over OS/2 1.3 or OS/2 2.0, there is no problems
(in fact, all your previous folder/menu settings are saved unless you
reformat, of course)...one of the prices to pay for having the privilege of
using a beta, I guess :-)
From: gedge@uk.ac.cf.cm (Geraint A Edwards)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
Subject: Re: Diskless Workstations
Date: 7 Apr 92 12:37:50 GMT
Organization: I'm at, not speaking for: Uni of Wales, College of Cardiff
X-Mailer: Cardiff Computing Maths PP Mail Open News Gateway

tholen@galileo.ifa.hawaii.edu (Dave Tholen) writes:
} Guy Zrachya writes:
} >  What's seamless windows?
} 
} Seamless windows means you can run a Windows application alongside a
} Presentation Manager application on the same screen group.

FYI, Acorn Archimedes computers (using ARM processors) run
emulated Windows in it's GUI (RISC-OS).  It's literally
Windows in a window on the desktop - but due to the software
emulation it's quite slow.  Quite an impressive feat, though,
despite it being non-seamless.

Gedge
-- 
Geraint A Edwards, Computing PhD student.  OS/2 2.0 may be curtains for Windows
gedge@cm.cf.ac.uk  gedge%cm.cf.ac.uk@nsf.ac.uk  ...!uunet!mcsun!ukc!cf-cm!gedge
From: feustel@netcom.com (David Feustel)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
Subject: Re: OS/2 Device Drivers - Mastrianni Book
Date: 16 Apr 92 00:17:56 GMT
Organization: DAFCO: OS/2 Software Support & Consulting

martin@minster.york.ac.uk writes:

>Some time back the book ``Writing OS/2 2.0 Device Drivers in C'', by
>Steven Mastrianni was discussed here. A release date of 6th April was given.
>Is this book now available? I just got our bookshop to enquire, and the
>publishers give the UK release date as AUGUST '92!!! This is *dreadful*!

>Are there any US booksellers that will ship books such as this overseas?

I got my copy about a week ago. VNR has an 800 number that orders can
be placed on.
-- 
David Feustel N9MYI, 1930 Curdes Ave, Fort Wayne, IN 46805. (219)482-9631
Republicans believe in the "carrot and stick" approach to social problems:
 	   - carrots for the rich and sticks for the poor -