HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gbelli@opal.tufts.edu
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: It's the cheese, Joe.
Date: 14 Aug 92 14:00:53 GMT
Organization: Tufts University - Medford, MA
Originator: news@jade.tufts.edu

Okay, so maybe I'm obsessing about this rennet thing.  Does anyone know a 
source for rennetless Parmesean cheese?  I haven't been able to find any.  
A store in the Boston area or a mail order source would be dandy.
      Thanks a bunch,
           Gretchen Belli
From: tchrist@convex.COM (Tom Christiansen)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: more on fruitarianism
Date: 21 Aug 92 00:32:12 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.1992Aug21.003212.23392
Reply-To: tchrist@convex.COM (Tom Christiansen)
Organization: Convex Computer Corporation, Colorado Springs, CO
Originator: tchrist@pixel.convex.com
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

From the keyboard of lavlba@zia.aoc.nrao.edu (Los Alamos VLBA site):
:Now I have heard that this is dangerous because the diet
:does *not* meet all of one's nutritional requirements.  

True.

:Claiming that if it is
:okay for chimps then it is okay for humans is naive.  

True again.

:Chimps are *not* fruitarians!  

:They are omnivorous because they also eat insects. 

More importantly, they are omnivorous because they eat monkeys.

:diet based solely on fruit?  I am new to vegetarianism and my knowledge base
:is very limited, but my understanding is that most all of our protein comes
:from the mix of vegetables we eat, not the fruit.  Am I wrong on this?

No.

:I am concerned for my friend's health if she is serious about this so any 
:factual information will be greatly appreciated.  

You should be.  Pity it's so hard to get good information.  MacDougal
address various diets and protein myths in his books.  I believe he
mentions the danger of a fruitarian diet.

--tom
-- 
    Tom Christiansen      tchrist@convex.com      convex!tchrist


           A programmer is a machine for converting coffee into code.
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: jereese@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (jean reese)
Subject: Re: Speaking of veg fast food....
Organization: Indiana University
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 17:59:23 GMT

In article <2913@voodoo.UUCP> das@voodoo.boeing.com (Deb Schwartz) writes:
>....on my trip last week to Utah, we stopped at a Denny's either in
>Idaho or Utah (don't remember which) and one of their specials was a
>veggie burger!  Granted, it was ovo-lacto, but it was good (similar to
>a Garden Burger, but the waiter said it was made by Kraft!), and it's
>a start.  The waiter said that not that many people actually ordered it,
>but they were thinking about making it a permanent part of the menu
>anyway.  Anyone else seen veg burgers at Denny's?  
>
>Debbie Schwartz // das@voodoo.boeing.com  // or uunet!bcstec!voodoo!das 


I was at a Denny's in Kentucky with two veggie friends, and all three
of us had to order the veggie cheese melt because there was
NOTHING else at all to order. But here's hoping!

Jean Reese  ++ jereese@ucs.indiana.edu
From: traub@btcs.bt.co.uk (Michael Traub)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: I love red meat!  I love sugar!
Date: 12 Aug 92 12:31:37 GMT
Organization: BT Customer Systems, Brighton, UK

In article <92223.57211.J024330@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM> J024330@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM writes:
>And I'm trying to kick the habit.  I read two books by a Doctor named
>John MacDougall.  They were quite interesting in that they recommended
>a high starch diet, and lay off the fats, all meats, and dairy products.
>Fine, I'm trying, but I feel like a heroin addict craving my next fix.
>Any suggestions?

Eat  more  fat.  There  is  no point in trying to go the whole hog (:-<) at
once.  Make  creamy  dishes  with  soya milk. Make a stir fry with tofu and
lots  of  oil. Eat greasy veggie burgers. None of these things are anywhere
near as bad for you as the diet you have just given up.

After  a  while  I  think  you  will  find you won't actually want too much
fatty  foods  anymore  and  you  will  naturally  tend  to a healthier diet
consisting of grains, fruits and vegetables, with lots of raw foods.

I  can't  help  you  with the sugar. I gave that one up overnight and never
had any problems.


-- 
Michael Traub
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Rec.food.veg's health warning.
Date: 23 Aug 92 04:28:03 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Aug23.042803.20418
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1992Aug23.002440.1486@btcs.bt.co.uk> traub@btcs.bt.co.uk (Michael Traub) writes:
>>Well, if you stopped posting all together the problem would be
>>solved rather neatly.
>Ok Mr. Dyer I shall stop posting. I'm sure rec.food.veg readers would
>prefer to listen to Mr. Steve 'nonsense' Dyer than me. You provide
>such useful input to this forum.
>Goodbye for now,

Ooooh, nooo, not that!

Actually, people who stoop to remarks like this in a cheap sympathy ploy
never make good on their "promises".  So, we'll be seeing you soon, Michael,
and we'll miss some of what you write in the meantime.  Don't be long.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: angelab@vcd.hp.com (Angela Byington)
Subject: Re: Rich & Michael
Organization: Hewlett-Packard VCD
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 03:33:22 GMT

Hello rec.food.veg,

I have been reading this newsgroup for going on four years.  When I
first started, I was only interested in vegetarianism as a curiosity.
I was there to get recipes, and the rest of the information was just
trivia.

By reading, and considering, and learning, I became increasingly
convinced that vegetarianism was the best choice for me.  I began
to read this group for the information, as well as the recipes.  The
people in the group gave me encouragement, and a year and a half
ago, I ate my last piece of meat.

Currently, I am on the road toward veganism.  And, I rarely read
this group any more.  Why?  Because the group has gone sour.  Originally
the source of inspiration, this group has become so filled with
venom and ridicule that it causes me grief just to read it.

I think the thing that saddens me the most, is when I think of all
the innocent people who tune into this group for the first time, to
be shocked or disgusted into never coming back. They tune in for all
sorts of reasons.  Guidance, curiosity, recipes, information, whatever.
And we may not agree with those reasons.  But they *did* tune in, and
I think that says something.

I would hope that we are all mature enough to ignore the occasional
trouble maker - without encouragement they usually go away.  Unfortunately,
the people on this group are obviously not mature enough to have the
tolerance of the diversity of opinion here to make it a pleasant
place to be.  Even if the only people who ever passed through here were
already vegetarian, I can't imagine them wanting to stay. 

There are a million pathways to arrive here, we need to respect all of
them unless we want to naysay ourselves into extinction.

In the meantime, thanks, but no thanks.  I'm leaving this group to
find a kinder way of spreading the word, and sharing food and experiences
with people who share my ideal for a way of life.

-Angela Byington
angelab@hp-vcd.vcd.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: abulsari@abo.fi (Abhay Bulsari VT)
Subject: Re: Rec.food.veg's health warning.
Organization: Abo Akademi University
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 06:21:02 GMT

In article <1992Aug22.184904.2311@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
>>The  posting  would  simply state that
>>certain    posters   to   this   newsgroup   do   *not*   reflect   current
>>vegetarian/vegan   opinion   and  that  their  articles  are  often  simply
>>designed  to  inflame  the  vegetarian and vegan members of this newsgroup.
>
>"Current vegetarian/vegan opinion"?  You mean M. Traub's opinion.

They happen to be more or less the same.

>
>>In  an  attempt  to  keep  flaming  down  regarding  such individuals their
>>postings  would  simply  be  ignored  except for a small followup directing
>>gentle readers to the health warning.
>
>Well, if you stopped posting all together the problem would be
>solved rather neatly.

That is like saying that if all of us vegetarians/vegans get off this
newsgroup, you will not need to flame anyone. 


-- 
A. Bulsari                                       Tel.  358 (21) 654 721
V{rmeteknik, ]bo Akademi                         Fax   358 (21) 654 792
Va"rmeteknik, A'bo Akademi   (for the non-Scandinavian screen impaired)
SF 20500 Turku, Finland                          Tlx  57 62301 AABIB SF
Organization: Psychology, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 13:49:25 -0400 
From: "Kathleen A. Rafferty" <kr22+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: hair thinning, 


Hello - I have been following a (basically) meatless diet for almost a
year now, and don't miss it, mentally.. However, I was wondering if my
body might miss it - particularly, my hair has been thinning out and is
generally more brittle thn it used to be...I have been taking
multivitamins and calcium, but i rarely eat protein - esp in the summer
- i just am NOT in teh mood for beans lately..

I was wondering- has anyone else noticed this problem?  Thanks in advance,

kathy rafferty
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: asathaye@pns.ece.cmu.edu (Archana Sathaye)
Subject: Yoghurt Maker
Organization: Electrical and Computer Engineering, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 18:10:52 GMT


Hi,

I was wondering if any of you netters own a "Yoghurt Maker (YM)".
If yes, I have several questions:

            o Which Brand?
            o Where can I get it?
            o Does the Yoghurt made in the YM taste the same always?
            o How much does it cost?

I remember reading in this Newsgroup or in Rec.food.cooking that
the Braun Yoghurt Maker is supposed to be good...but it is not
sold in the US.

Please e-mail your response to me.

Thanks,
Archana
asathaye@ece.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: burger@leland.Stanford.EDU (Scott Schlossberg)
Subject: Veggie in Oxford...
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 92 14:53:47 GMT

Hi.  I'm a lacto-ovo veggie who will be in Oxford, England for 6 months
beginning soon.  How difficult is being vegetarian going to be in England
as opposed to the US?  I go to school in California where it's pretty easy,
and I live in Dallas where things are a little tougher but not too bad.  We
will be eating in the dining halls at Oxford about once a day with other meals
coming from restaurants/grocery stores, etc.  I visited England once before
(back in my carnivorous days), and I don't remember seeing much other than meat
on menus.  Any information would be really appreciated.

Thanks,

Scott Schlossberg
burger@leland.stanford.edu
-- 
Scott Schlossberg takes his leave of you. | Selection committee still 
Drop a line at burger@leland.stanford.edu | attempting to chose quote.
The Texas Rangers will dethrone the Twins!| Stay tuned for further
The New York Giants will be back in 1992!!| updates...Scott
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: tiff@kona.cs.ucla.edu (Tiffany Frazier)
Subject: Re: the term "vegetarian"
Organization: UCLA, Computer Science Department
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 18:14:15 GMT

 (therese@garnet.berkeley.edu) wrote:
: Hi, I'd like to add my 2 cents worth to the discussion about aspiring
: vegetarians reading this group and being turned off by rabid veggies here.
: I wasn't a vegetarian when I started reading this group, either, and like
: many out there now couldn't understand what the big deal was about referring
: to myself as a vegetarian even though I occasionally (once or twice a month)
: ate meat.  But now that I am a vegetarian, I DO see the point - it's really
: frustrating to tell someone you're a vegetarian and have them assume that
: you eat meat (chicken or fish).  It's really frustrating to go to a restaurant
: and ask for vegetarian options and have the waitress point out chicken and
: fish dishes to you.  It's *really* frustrating to have someone like your
: mother-in-law tell you a friend of her's is a vegetarian, only *she* eats
: chicken and turkey and fish (with the implication that you are unreasonable
: to call yourself a vegetarian and not eat those things).  This happened to
: me last weekend.  The problem with referring to yourself as a vegetarian
: but still eating meat, however occasionally, is that people who know this
: will think *all* people who refer to themselves as vegetarian do this, and
: many of us don't!
: 
: Basically, what I'm trying to say is that things look different depending
: on which side of the fence you're on.  When you jump over the fence and
: become a vegetarian, maybe you'll see our side more clearly.
: 
: Therese

It depends _why_ you're a vegetarian and you've pretty thoroughly expressed
the problem for us "non_vegetarians".  There's this fence that people like me
will (probably) never be on "your side of" and "we" seemingly don't _really_
belong on this group.  Strange, because I've experienced the same "problems"
you list above, but I'm not an ethical-vegetarian.

In 2 months I will be eagerly back to my "McDougall low-fat vegan diet" (and
I can't wait - at 7 mos through my 2nd pregnancy I feel like a land-roving
whale).  So under that diet - describing myself as vegan accounts for 99+%
of what I eat during a year.  It's what I order at a restaurant, eat at a
friend's house (unless things are truly desperate), etc... and when I go to
the houses of relatives I try to eat as much McDougall as I can - but
invariably I eat at least some dead animal (esp. Thanksgiving,...).
(Personally I'm quiet grateful at any small concessionary attempts made by
my relatives - though they are often amusingly? uninformed).  In general I
try very hard not to refer to myself as a vegan - I guess it's just
unfortunate for me that that happens to describe (with the addition of
"low-fat") exactly what my day-to-day diet is.
(Or will be again - I feel like I shouldn't post here with out a written
disclaimer that I'm currently meat-eating again).

--
tiff@cs.ucla.edu
!{rutgers, ucbvax}!ucla-cs!tiff
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: ed@cwis.unomaha.edu (Ed Stastny)
Subject: Vegetarian "hotline"
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 00:54:01 GMT

I was reading a free magazine I picked up at the university, it's called
Campus Life or some such.  In the back it had a listing of 800 numbers
that might be of interest to campus-types.  One was a "vegetarian
hotline"...I called it and it was merely a recording which prompted you
to leave your name, address, and number.  I did (I don't mind receiving
veg.stuff in the mail) and if you'd like to also...the number is:   
 
1-800-872-8343
 
They also mentioned a number where you could speak to a "live"
operator...
 
1-615-558-VEGE (8343)
 
Are there any of you in the 615 area that will call and see what kind of
services they offer?
 
...e
--
Ed Stastny           *  SOUND News and Arts magazine available now via
ed@cwis.unomaha.edu  *  anon. FTP: quartz.rutgers.edu (/pub/journals)
                     *  or email from me here at cwis.  Soon to return 
(Imagery is reality) *  to the GOPHER server.  Art and writing welcome.
From: traub@btcs.bt.co.uk (Michael Traub)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: butter vs. margarine
Date: 12 Aug 92 11:17:58 GMT
Organization: BT Customer Systems, Brighton, UK

In article <1992Aug11.192808.12186@athena.mit.edu> adrothst@athena.mit.edu (Andrew D Rothstein) writes:
>Could you all tell me which you think is healthier, and why, butter or margarine.

Margarine, it (usually) contains less saturated fat and no cholesterol.

>Obviously there are moral reasons to avoid the animal products, but from
>a purely health, nutrition, viewpoint, which is better?  Many of my vegetarian
>friends say that margarine is hyrdogenated so much that it is as bad a butter, 
>and then they put chemicals and colorings in it to make it look better.  Butter
>seems to have less fat than margarine, but it does have some cholesterol.  But 
>wouldn't the saturated fats in the margarine raise your serum cholesterol levels 
>more than the ingestion of the amount that is in butter?  Anyway, any and all
>opinions are welcome.  Thanks in advance.

Saying that it is obvious that buying any old junko margarine will
not necessarily be a good thing. Try getting a margarine that
contains *no* hydrogenated fats (Vitaquell is a good example) and
is coloured using vitamins only. Also don't buy any margarine
that is adulterated with any animal products, some even use
lard!



-- 
Michael Traub
From: jeffrey.burrows@almac.co.uk
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: manger a maroc
Date: 18 Aug 92 21:33:08 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: ALMAC PC Board


I'm away in September to back-pack around Morocco for 3 and a bit weeks. I
hope to get round the Imperial cities and get up into the Atlas and to
the desert edge.

I'd much appreciate any general information, or specific recommendations of
hotels transport and the like. However, my particular concern is how to find
vegetarian food there (I'm ovo-lacto) - I'd like to avoid spending 3
weeks subsisting on Perrier and glucose tablets.

Thanks in advance for your help; I pick up rec.food.veg and rec.travel, or
e-mail me instead.

Jey


  +------------------+----------------------+
  | Date: Aug 17,92  | Time: 17:59:24       |
  +------------------+----------------------+-------------------------------+
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  | Strathkelvin DC  | Home: (041) 946 1363 | Locket nicht mit Liebensgaben |
  | Kirkintilloch    | Fax:  (041) 777 8576 | Lasst mein Herz alleine haben |
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  +-------------------+------------+---------+------------------------------+
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Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: traub@btcs.bt.co.uk (Michael Traub)
Subject: Re: butter vs. margarine
Organization: BT Customer Systems, Brighton, UK
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 07:58:31 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.084604.19928@aisb.ed.ac.uk> eddie@cstr.ed.ac.uk (Eddie Rooney) writes:
>Margarine has got to be healthier, if only because it tastes so horrible you're not
>likely to eat very much of it. Do *YOU* spread marg thickly on hot toast or scones? :)

I've  eaten  margarine  since  I  was  about five years old. My Dad got the
family  to  change  over after all the scares about dietary cholesterol and
saturated  fat  back  in  the sixties. Even when I was not vegan I couldn't
stand  the  taste  of  butter,  it  tastes  like  lard.  Give  me  a *good*
margarine  anyday.  Oh,  and I spread my margarine *very* thickly on toast,
far more than is sensible perhaps.


-- 
Michael Traub
From: cooper@rtf.bt.co.uk (Mike Cooper)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: cheese
Date: 23 Aug 92 13:12:49 GMT
Organization: BT Customer Systems, Brighton, UK

In article <1992Aug19.171802.26238@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk> jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin) writes:
>dm3o+@andrew.cmu.edu (David F. McWade) wrote:
>>> Elisabeth Freeman writes:
>>> Does anyone know of anything with which to flavour tofu so it tastes
>>> more like cheese?  Or, if that's impossible, to give it a flavour that
>>> would be good for making lasagne with tofu?
>> Have you tried soycheese?
>
>Urggghhh...  have you tried soap?  I'm not sure I could tell the
>difference...  I think products like this and soymilk are what give
>vegetarians the reputation of being self-flagellating loonies.  The fact
>that they have been technically feasible for a few thousand years and no
>culture has ever adopted them as an item of diet before now ought to tell
>you something...
>
No, disagree, and no respectively. Haven't tried soap. [any Vegans know if
common soaps are made from animal fat still?]
Some soy cheeses and milks are very good indeed. Try different varieties. As
for the *technical feasibility* I think that it's probably rather more recent,
and that therefore the fact that no culture has ever adopted them is
meaningless, especially if coupled with the existing meat/dairy culture. Why
would any of them bother given vast 'lakes' of surplus milk? Given that culture,is it any surprise that a minority such as ourselves are regarded as "self-
flagellating loonies"?

[rest of helpful post deleted for brevity]


-- 
================================================================================
| Mike Cooper, BT BC/CS Brighton...well Hove actually.        |                |
| Disclaimer: I was on holiday at the time.                   |                |
| "No doubt remains that virtual particles are really there." |                |
| (Barrow & Silk: The Left Hand of Creation)                  |                |
================================================================================
From: red_trek@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: More on fruitarian diet
Date: 21 Aug 92 16:08:21 GMT
Organization: Carnegie Mellon Computer Club

It's my understanding that fruitarians do also eat nuts and seeds--
both of which provide some protein.  A couple even provide a great
deal of calcium (seasme seed, sunflower seeds), and I *think* some
are okay on iron.

However, I , too have read that a fruitarian diet is emphatically
not reccommended.  This I read in a cookbook aimed at vegetarians
(including, tho not exclusively to, vegans).  This cookbook, however,
didn't really address fruitarianism except to explain what it is, and
then to dismiss it.

I'd still like to know more about the fruitarian diet myself, out
of curiosity.  There *must* be some frutiarians reading this thread.
Any responses?  it'd help if you could list the vitamins and minerals,
etc humans nee, then list possible sources for same in the fruitarian
kingdom.

A few questions:

1) Nuts and seeds can get as much as 90% of their caloires from fat
(tho at least it's mostly the "good" fat-- polyunsaturated). How
 do you maintain a diet in which only 10% (ideal) to 30% (okay, if
you don't have a cholestroal problem) when nuts/seeds are your 
primary protein source?

2) Do frutiarians eat tomatoes? (vine grown).  Excuse my incredible
ignorance, please, but would corn be okay (as I don't *believe* the whole
plant is killed to take off the ears of corn??) What about rice?
Other less obvious "fruitarian " type foods?
From: jon@physics.berkeley.edu (Jonathan Miller)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Tofu yogurt (vegan)
Date: 20 Aug 1992 19:39:20 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: physics.berkeley.edu
Originator: jon@physics.Berkeley.EDU


Here's a recipe I tried last weekend. It was OK as a vegan yogurt
substitute, but not great. Maybe you all can offer suggestions
for improvement.

Ingredients:

	Equal amounts soft tofu and fresh fruit
	(I tried blueberries, but I think most anything would work)

	Cinammon and nutmeg

	Sweetener of your choice (I like organic apple juice,
	but any sugar or even nutrasweet should work)

Mix tofu and fruit in a blender (for a long time -- it's not so good
if the fruit is not mixed in). Add flavorings to taste.

Serve chilled, but not frozen (it will turn hard).

Variations: Try serving it over cereal, or adding wheat germ.

I caution against using apples as the fruit. When I tried it, it
tasted like haroset, the Passover food in Judaism.

This dish should be quite nutritious, depending on your choice
of sweetener. It may be high in fat, though. (See my previous
posting re tofu and fat. By the way, I found the FAQ pretty
useless in answering both those questions.)

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jon Miller				        jon@physics.berkeley.edu
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg