From: ray@unisql.UUCP (Ray Shea)
Newsgroups: rec.music.misc
Subject: Re: Ray Shea Goes Ballistic (was Re: Top 10 bands of all time)
Date: 20 Nov 92 15:39:10 GMT
Organization: UniSQL, Inc., Austin, Texas, USA

In article <falcon.722189191@camelot> falcon@camelot.bradley.edu (D. Nathan Hood) writes:
>ok... so you are telling us that Ray's top ten groups of all time are the
>_real_ top ten??? 

Uh, what top ten groups?  My favorite group usually happens to be what I'm
listening to at any given moment (assuming that I'm choosing the music; no
jokes about dentist office music).  Needless to say, that favorite group
changes fairly frequently.

>i beg to differ...  all that ray is telling us is who he
>_thinks_ are the top ten bands ever to have existed...  

If you're gonna into this discussion, you oughta keep your facts straight
about who's saying what.  My main point in this discussion, which nobody,
including Silverman (or you) want to address, is that anyone who claims to
know the Top 10 Bands of All Time without every having given any black
music more than a cursory listen simply knows very little about the subject
at hand.

>Now then granted i
>haven't heard of alot of the bands on his list... i don't remember his list
>exactly but i think velvet underground and can were on it.... 

>who??? that
>is my question... if they are so great then why haven't most people i know
>heard of them... (don't flame me yet...)   now you are going to say
>probably that _i_ have narrow musical tastes becausei haven't heard of
>them... hardly, i could give you a listing of the bands that i listen to
>and like but it isn't worth the bandwidth just to prove a point...  back to
>my point here

Well, wait a minute, let me get back to your point up there.  You seem to
think that musical "greatness" is determined by how many of your friends
have heard of them.  Y'know, my wife didn't know who Sonny Rollins was 
until last week when I brought home a CD of his.  (Who?).  Sonny Rollins.
You know.  One of the greatest jazz saxophonists of all time.  Ever heard
of him?  Lots of people have.  Even more people haven't, simply because
most people simpley *don't* *seek* *out* *interesting* *music*.  And so
I can hardly see how those people can make any kind of Top 10 list that
has any meaning at all to anyone but themselves.

>... Ray's list is no more valid to me than Mike's... they are
>both perceptions... mine happen to be different as does every person who
>reads this post... so a top ten bands of all time can only express opinions
>there is no way that it can be factual

Well, by definition, everything here is an opinion.  But if you're going
to post your opinion, you should be prepared to back it up.  Mr. Silverman
could not back up his opinion, so he got abusive instead.  And if someone
gets in my face, well, I'm gonna get right back in theres.

>...  now then you were yapping at Mr.
>Silverman for presenting his list as a fact... 

I was yapping at him for not sufficiently backing up his opinions; he
displayed his ignorance of black music (no problem, nobody's born with
this info) and then proceeded to dismiss it as unimportant.  But how does
he *know* it's unimportant when he freely admits he hasn't even *heard* it?
*This* is ignorance, it's annoying, and when it's splayed out all over
r.m.m., then it's open to criticism.  Tough.


>anyone can express their opinions and this is the place to do it... but if
>people are going to be flamed for doing so, then the use of the net will
>decrease greatly... and then you guys would be out of people to flame...
>now wouldn't that be a shame...

Well, maybe if people tried to *learn* something from this newsgroup, there
wouldn't be so many flamewars.  People think I'm some kind of bad guy for
flaming people, but the point is that I don't post unless I know what I'm
talking about.  I've had perfectly civil discussions with people here all
the time, because I don't shoot off my mouth about music I have no knowledge
of.

-- 
Ray Shea                               I woke up this morning,
UniSQL, Inc.                           all my shrimps was dead and gone...
unisql!ray@cs.utexas.edu       
DoD #0372 -- Team Twinkie -- '88 Hawk NT650