From: krikket@meltdown.chi.il.us (D. 'Krikket' Krick)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: ***SAD STUFF SPOILERS***
Date: 25 Jan 93 05:24:48 CST
Organization: The Meltdown - A Team Star BBS

I'm leaving the following article intact, even though it probably would be
nicer for bandwidth to delete portions.  It brings back lots of memories.  I
was the man in the picture.  (Different female, obviously.)

**SPOILER WARNING**

READON:  In my reply I speak of sex in a very blunt fashion, from the angle of
the SO.  Some people may not be ready to handle this, along with a discussion
of fucking vs. sex vs. making love.  Hence, the spoiler.  Nothing bad is said
in this message, and in this case it's 2 people who both have the best of
intentions, and only mean to be good and helpful without forgetting their own
(conflicting) desires and needs.

Almost started responding...  On with the quoted message first.

In article <C140nn.5t2@twwells.com>, anon-1511@twwells.com (Katelyn) writes:
>I'm so scared right now.
>it hurts so much on the inside.
>he doesn't want _me_. i feel
>like i'm only an object.
>he won't touch me and then
>when he does i hate it
>one sunday morning we
>were just lounging around
>the house in sweats
>we were kind of playing
>being frisky on the bed
>i wanted needed to be close
>he pushed me away and said
>'come one, let's get going'
>so i got up and headed for 
>the bathroom and took off my
>sweatshirt and he could see
>my breasts and he came up 
>behind me and grabbed them
>and didn't notice that I went
>stiff
>now, he wanted sex
>and was really excited and some
>part of me was crying and i
>wanted to be there for him and
>i wanted to make him happy
>but i had to be true to myself
>so i told him i couldn't
>he tried to be understanding but he just can't
>he likes to argue points even moot ones
>so we discussed and discussed and discussed
>and by this time i am crying hard
>really hard
>and i'm in the shower and i'm crying
>hard jagged gasping choking
>and it hurt so bad
>he doesn't want _me_ he doesn't
>want to be close to _me_
>and the worst part is i was ready to 
>give in
>it would have been so easy

I regret my actions.  I was an ignorant idiot at the time.  I didn't know what
it was like to be on the other side, and she was unable to talk about it, so my
ignorance continued.  I was rational, but forgot that it was an emotional
issue, not a logical one.  I accidentlly pushed to far (for her to get therapy,
not for sex!) and we got to close.  She paniced, and pushed me away for an
ex-lover (who also abused her) when it was convienent.

Later she realized that her bi-sexuallity leaned more to lesbianism than
heterosexuallity...  Ahh well, she still owns part of my heart and soul, and
always will.

When the playing around scene took place, I was in a flirtatious (and horny)
mood.  And playfull, more than anything else.  In my own way the actions were
also fufulling a want need to be close.

The following scene didn't take place, but others did, and I could see it
happening, if circumstances were slightly different.

The following scene where I wanted sex was part of the same want and need for
closeness.

Let me stop and add a clarifier here.  I used the term sex because it was the
one you used, not because it was what was felt on my part.

IMHO, you can fuck, have sex, and make love.

Fucking is cheap, meaningless sex.  In my opnion, this is no more pleasurable
than masturbation.  (I find it a BIG turn off if my partner yells things like
"FUCK ME HARD" in the middle of the act...)

Making Love is something that goes well beyond the physical act.  It involves
two people who love each other dearly, and wish to become that much closer with
their partner.  The actions (fucking) just happen to be what occurs.  It's
highly emotional, and a good definition is defying me.  But it's the best thing
that I know of.  It's the ultimate connection on a spiritual level that lovers
can have.  (Hence the emotions, understanding, and everything else are not just
good to have, but VITAL!)

Sex is an act that falls somewhere between the above two.

Now let's go back to the scene where he grabbed your breasts "and wanted sex".
In my case, it was never a mere fuck.  It couldn't have been, not with someone
who I had built up that much emotion with.  It would have been making
passionate love.  Unfortunately, (I'm now using my knowledge that's come since
I've been raped) the differences between a fuck, sex, and making love, aren't
always obvious to the other person.

Yes, it's been stamped into my head that not everyone is psychic!  :)

And then I got the cold reaction and saw the flashbacks she went through.  I
didn't comprehend all that was going throigh her mind, but I tried to
understand.  (And yes, I too love a good argument for the sake of the argument.
 Sometimes I take it too far, but (fortunately) 95% of the people I now deal
with know when to tell me that I'm doing that...

I tried to understand.  I failed.

I also tried to make her understand my emotions.  I don't know if I failed.

Unfortunately I didn't know how to get my thoughts across on this issue without
putting her off.  Nor did I fully comprehend the state she was in.

I would have been horrified to know what happened when she spaced out during
the act of making love.  I would have IMMEDIATELY stopped, an tried to do
ANYTHING to comfort her, even if it meant leaving.

She told me that it was allright, and things would be ok.  I didn't completley
beleive her, but I acted on what she was saying.  I continued the act, since
she also said that was what she wanted.  I didn't know she was only trying to
please me.

I remember one specific time when I held her down while making love, and she
asked me to stop...  I paused.  She repeated her request.  I complied.  I would
have done ANYTHING for her, even though that particular act (at the time) was
an extremely big turn on.

Am I making any sence, or am I babbeling?  I'm trying to get across the point
that the problems were primarily a problem of misunderstanding, rather than
something else.  Now I know why she reacted like you described at times.

If only I knew...

I hope this helps in the slightest in shedding some light on the other side...

<><><><><><>
Krikket                      ---  krikket@meltdown.chi.il.us
anon-1214@twwells.com        ---  an294@anon.penet.fi
#include<std.disclaimers>    ---  #include<sig.virus>

Just another commentary on the sad state of affairs in our world today.
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery