HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kxs5829@ultb.isc.rit.edu (K.X. Saunders )
Subject: Re: 3-day workout
Originator: kxs5829@ultb
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 18:33:19 GMT

In article <9209081718.AA16970@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU> SSDC2@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU (J Green) writes:
>>From: bc@campbell.Gwinnett.COM (Bob Campbell)
>>  The other day I did heavy triceps only to find out that it made
>>  it tough to do bench presses.
>
>until this statement i was reading your original post thinking "nah,
>i won't answer that, it's up to you, a matter of preference".
>
>but ALWAYS train triceps AFTER chest or shoulders.
>and ALWAYS train biceps AFTER back. the rest is up to you.
>
>back brings the biceps into play, and chest and shoulders bring the
>triceps into play. if your biceps are smoked then a back workout is
>not very successful. likewise for triceps, if they are smoked, forget
>a decent chest/shoulders workout that (or the next) day.
>work the bigger muscle groups first, and pre-exhaust the smaller muscles
>(biceps and triceps).

	I would disagree about training the biceps after the back.  I suppose
it depends on the exercise, but I do bent-over rows.  If I didn't do my 
barbell curls first, it would be too easy to unintentionally cheat.  

	- Kyle

-- 
+-"Remember, [MS]DOS is sort of a UNIX deviant already" - dmoscny@piglet.-----+
|    // Only /\          kxs5829@ultb.isc.rit.edu                 cincinatti. |
| \ //      /--\MIGA     kyle@nick.csh.rit.edu                    oh.us       |
| \X/ SQLdb - $40 rdbms  Rochester Institute of Technology                    |
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: ekp@mcnc.org (Edward Pavelchek)
Subject: Re: Caffeine
Organization: Good place for a disclaimer
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 23:46:46 GMT

In article <1992Sep10.150949.355@sage.hnrc.tufts.edu> loszewski_im@sage.hnrc.tufts.edu writes:
>Because caffeine depletes your iron stores. 

Huh?

This is a new one on me.  How about some backup?  Chronic or acute?

-- 
Ed Pavelchek   ekp@mcnc.org
But I make a profit of 3 1/4 cents an egg by selling them for 4 1/4
cents an egg to the people in Malta I buy them from for 7 cents an egg.
Of course, *I* don't make the profit.          Joseph Heller, Catcha 22
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: schmidt@nimbus.larc.nasa.gov (Eric Schmidt)
Subject: Re: Sore feet
Summary: You could have plantar fascitis, an inflamation of the connective
	 tissue running along the sole of the foot.  It is usually caused
	 by a tearing or stretching of the tissue, usually near the heel
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA USA
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 22:03:13 GMT


Oops!  Sorry, but as I was going to say, it sounds like it could possibly
be plantar fascitis...the only "cure" is to see a doctor.  Good Luck!

Eric Schmidt
schmidt@sunset.larc.nasa.gov
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Subject: Re: FITNESS WISDOM?
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 22:08:32 GMT

In article <1992Sep15.080851.371@sage.hnrc.tufts.edu> loszewski_im@sage.hnrc.tufts.edu writes:
>
>                                        PLEA
>
>First of all for those of you out there who don't know who I am, my name is Rob
[....]
>you an idea of this guy, he looks like a string bean and he competed in a 
>competition recently because he made a quick moment decision to do it.  He now
>things he is the greatest thing since sliced bread.  He feels he know everything
>there is to know about bodybuilding.  

Ya' know, Rob, I've been lifting for about 30 years, and all that time
there have been cycles of people saying it's bad for your blood pressure,
makes you stunted, muscle-bound, etc., etc..  Now we have the fitness
craze, and all those people wander around giving advice about this
"wonderful new sport" that they just found.  Some are just geeks and some of
them are health or exercise professionals.  It's just like any other
art, hobby, discipline, or sport.  There's always a new "expert" who 
doesn't want to "waste" their time with doing research or getting facts,
but likes to talk.  Trouble is, lifters and exercise people don't 
necessarily have to be tested or skilled, but they can really screw
up people that listen to them.  The proof is, as they say, in the doing.

Blow it off.

GMS
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: max@isis.eng.hou.compaq.com (Max Heffler)
Subject: Bursitis in right shoulder
Organization: Compaq Computer Corp.
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 23:48:05 GMT

I have developed Bursitis in my right shoulder after these six years of
regular exercise.  I noticed it a few weeks ago and it hasn't gone away.
My chiropractor has recommended ice after working out, which he says
is causing the infallmation.  Have any of you had a similar condition
and did it ever go away?  Was surgery needed?  Thanx...
-- 
Max Heffler, Senior Software Engineer   internet: max@compaq.com
Compaq Computer Corporation             uucp: ..!uunet!max@compaq.com
P.O. Box 692000 - M050701               phone: (713) 378-8366
Houston, Texas  77269-2000              fax:   (713) 374-7305
"The views expressed here are my own, and not those of my employer."
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: bandwen@eagle.larc (bando)
Subject: Tunafish 
Reply-To: bandwen@eagle.larc (bando)
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA USA
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 19:04:17 GMT

High in protein, no fat -- good workout food or what?


Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: sfjr@wam.umd.edu (Steve Russell)
Subject: Re: My crooked legs
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 20:23:27 GMT

In article <2AAA3271.4999@news.service.uci.edu> robin@fisher.bio.uci.edu writes:
>
>Can anyone relate to this problem? Probably not, but here goes....
>
>My legs look like someone cut them off just below the knee, rotated the  
>lower halves outward about 10 degrees, then welded them back on. So not  
>only do my toes point out, the entire bottom halves of my legs do too.  
>
>This hasn't been a problem (nobody notices this unless I point it out),  
>and maybe it still isn't.  I never exercised a day in my life until about  
>2 years ago (I'm 36), but have gotten in pretty good shape by doing   
>aerobics, swimming, lifting weights, etc.  I started running a little last  
>year, and tried running sprints earlier this summer, but I got shin  
>splints, and now I can't seem to shake them.  I'd do things like quit  
>running, or only swim for a couple of weeks. Then I'll go back to aerobics  
>or try running just a little.  Things would be fine for a while, then the  
>shin splints would come back.
>
>I am willing to give up my dream of running the hurdles like Edwin Moses -  
>all I want to do now is to  shake these splints. So now I am doing daily  
>shin stretches and exercises, as recommend by both the stretching guru,  
>Bob Anderson, and by you all, the net doctors.  I am hoping this will  
>work.  But when I am doing these exercises on my warped legs, I can't help  
>but wonder if I am fighting a losing battle.  All this talk of pronation,  
>supination, orthotics, etc., is by people whose legs are basically correct  
>to begin with.  If I straighten my feet out, my kneecaps are almost  
>face-to-face!  
>
>Does anybody else out there have a problem like this? Any hope?  I hate  
>limiting my activities unless I absolutely have to.
>
>----------------------------------------------------------
>Robin 

Robin;

I had the same problem several years back when I was forced to run for a
karate club I was in.  I have flat feet, one leg slightly longer then the other, and scoliosis.  Everytime I would start a running program my knees, feet, and
back would suffer.  Just keep up with your aerobic activities that are non
Impact.  The best nonimpact fatburners are the stairmaster machines, step
aerobics, and exercise bikes.  If you like weights try Joyce Vedral's
FAT BURNING WORKOUT.  It uses a kind of circuit weight training ala dumbell
supersets and it works nice.

Good Luck

Steve R

Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini)
Subject: Re: coffee grnds, aluminum pots unhealthy??
Organization: Unocal Corporation
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 14:46:58 GMT

DITTO the Swedish group that recently announced too much iron intake was
correlated with heart attacks.  There is a MDA for many metals and a toxic
level.  I am concerned when people in this group advocate taking mineral
supplements such as chronium.  Some people will get overenthusiastic and
start posioning themselves then.
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: sonic@romulus.cray.com (Curtis Swanson)
Subject: Re: ************ Help with flexibility *************************
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 8 Sep 92 18:05:16 CDT


In article <1992Sep5.041437.23541@cc.umontreal.ca>, cholette@JSP.UMontreal.CA (Cholette Martin) writes:
> 
>  Hello, I have been training in the martial arts ( Karate ) for several years
>  now and I still have a problem with my flexibility. When I train several
>  times in a week, my muscles become stiff and sore due to overstretching I
>  guess. I stretch every time I train , before training. I would like to know
>  what is the best way to stretch to attain maximum flexibility? Is it 
>  every day, every second day?  Do I pull hard for a short while or do I
>  pull soft for a long time ? When my muscles hurt, do I stretch them or do
>  I wait for several days for the pain to dissappear before I stretch again?
>  This is frustrating, after so many years, my muscles still stiffen after
>  heavy stretching. I am 22 years old if this is a factor in it.
> 

Also having taken karate, I'll give what works for me.

Stretch every day.  Slowly stretch to the point of discomfort and hold for 
10+ seconds.  Some recommend 30 seconds.  DO NOT JERK!  This can injure 
your muscles and ligaments.  If the muscles are sore, do not stretch them as
hard as you normally would.

>  I would appreciate any help with this problem, also can you point out
>  the right professional to see for this ie: M.D. or P.T. or O.T. ???
> 
>  Martin Cholete
>  cholette@jsp.umontreal.ca

For me, a good massage and a jacuzzi do wonders for keeping flexibility and
easing sore muscles.  Hope this helps.....
--
***  Curt Swanson  ***  sonic@romulus.cray.com  ***  IOTTMCO  *********
HOME:n - That mythical place where you can go and relax.......
I'd rather be in a coma.........
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
Subject: Re: Caffeine
Date: 11 Sep 92 17:39:01 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Sep11.173901.26100
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1992Sep11.063347.912@mr.med.ge.com> bednarek@picard.med.ge.com (Dennis Bednarek Mfg 4-6971) writes:
>From what I just heard on TV dhat iron depletion may not be all bad.  They
>have found some coreolation(sp) between high iron levels, and heart attacks.

Just don't rely on caffeine to do this for you.

>I wish I knew more as this sounds interesting with loads of people gulping
>down iron suplements that may bve doing more bad than good?

Everyone feels the same way.  I'm sure there will be lots of studies
in this area being done in the new few years.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: gairns@ccrs.emr.ca (Jamie Gairns)
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
Subject: Re: coffee grnds, aluminum pots unhealthy??
Date: 12 Sep 92 23:32:45 GMT
Organization: Canada Centre for Remote Sensing, Ottawa

In article <56061@olivea.atc.olivetti.com> markn@assisi.orc.olivetti.com (Mark Nass) writes:
>> 
>> Another question: my espresso maker is made of aluminum, which is possibly
>> risky, since aluminum has been linked w/ Alzheimer's.  Any data on this?
>
>  In the current issue of Discovery magazine they have a good article on this
>topic. They mention that they really don't know what the relationship is
>between
>aluminum and Alzheimer's but every brain that is looked at with the
>desease has a 
>high concentration of aluminum. Most of the research money is going to people
>that suspect a certain protein, that is also present with the aluminum. 
>   This is a poor explanation on my part, but the artcle was good.
>
>Mark Nass
>
>

	I read somewhere (sorry, must be the Aluminum) that elemental
	Aluminum from pots can not be absorbed through the stomach wall
	since the molecule chains are too big.  There seems to be
	considerable controversy as to how the Aluminum actually gets
	into the system ... 

	James
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Subject: Re: name of this exercise..
Organization: AT&T
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 18:51:17 GMT

In article <1992Sep7.154954.28639@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> ss8f@csissun5.ee.Virginia.EDU (Sanjay Srinivasan) writes:
>In article <TMR.92Sep7160547@fat-controller.bham.ac.uk> tmr@cs.bham.ac.uk (Tim M. Read) writes:
>>I was wondering if anyone could put a name to a form of exercise I heard
>>about a while ago, so that I know where to look to get more information.
>>
>>It consists (so I understand) of tensing muscles, (eg) as if you are pushing
>>against an imaginary object. Apparently the exercise is obtained by
>>different groups of muscles working against each other. The good thing about
>
>Calisthenics?
>
Isometrics.  As the name implies, it involves exercising muscles
without changing the limbs' relative positions, i. e., not moving.
I believe it was originated among German strength trainers, and was
at the top of popularity in the US around 20 years ago or so.  Okay
for strength, not much aerobic benefit, not much for synergistic
muscle action and therefore not much for lifting.  A variation of
it involves slow movement of the limbs involved along the involved
muscles' range of motion.  When I was in junior highschool, I did
this during class while listening to the teachers.  I used my
desktop in an English class, gripping the edge in a kind of
motionless reverse curl.  About halfway into the lecture there was
a loud crack and me sitting in the middle of the other students
holding my desktop in my left hand, looking like an idiot.  And
all the teacher said was, "take it to the shop class", and went
right on with the lesson.

GMS
From: SSDC2@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU (J Green)
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
Subject: Re: 3-day workout
Date: 8 Sep 92 17:11:14 GMT

>From: bc@campbell.Gwinnett.COM (Bob Campbell)
>  The other day I did heavy triceps only to find out that it made
>  it tough to do bench presses.

until this statement i was reading your original post thinking "nah,
i won't answer that, it's up to you, a matter of preference".

but ALWAYS train triceps AFTER chest or shoulders.
and ALWAYS train biceps AFTER back. the rest is up to you.

back brings the biceps into play, and chest and shoulders bring the
triceps into play. if your biceps are smoked then a back workout is
not very successful. likewise for triceps, if they are smoked, forget
a decent chest/shoulders workout that (or the next) day.
work the bigger muscle groups first, and pre-exhaust the smaller muscles
(biceps and triceps).

>I still have skinny
>  arms at 6' 2", 195 lbs.  My upper body is particularly weak
>  and always has been.

as several bodybuilders have said "you have to find your weakness(es) and
fall in love with them. learn about them and make them better". Arnold
said he would mentally picture MOUNTAINS when working his biceps. what do
you think about when working your arms? (hint: try mountains! it can't hurt!)

>  Any good workout suggestions?

when breaking workouts into 2 (or more) sessions, there are many
possibilities. some examples are:

day 1: legs/back/biceps
day 2: chest/shoulders/triceps

or

day 1: back/shoulders/biceps
day 2: legs/chest/triceps

or with legs on a separate day:

day 1: back/biceps
day 2: chest/shoulders/triceps
day 3: legs

or

day 1: back/shoulders
day 2: chest/triceps/biceps
day 3: legs

there are many combinations. experiment and find what's best for you.
(don't forget abs).
the most important thing(s) to remember is to do back BEFORE biceps
and chest and shoulders BEFORE triceps. everything else can depend on
your preference.

i've also heard people say to do triceps before biceps or vice versa.
maybe super-duper-massive biceps get in the way of effectively doing
triceps, but i haven't had that problem (yet). your mileage may vary! :-)

oh yea, don't worry so much about age. lots of guys (and girls!) over
40 get great results from working out! :-)

hope this helps...
Janice

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Janice Green, Research Programmer      Social Science Data Center   __o
Janice_Green@Brown.edu                 Brown University           _`\<,_
SSDC2@BROWNVM          -+||-----||+-   Providence, RI (USA)      (*)/ (*)
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: ekp@mcnc.org (Edward Pavelchek)
Subject: Re: Anaerobic exercise and carbo cravings
Organization: Good place for a disclaimer
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 22:12:24 GMT

In article <1992Sep4.164907.23974@inmet.camb.inmet.com> mazur@inmet.camb.inmet.com (Beth Mazur) writes:
>Anyways, I will try and dig out some stuff when I go home, but here
>is what Katahn has to say (T-Factor, p. 222): 
>
>	"But certain forms of exercise, under certain conditions, can also
>	increase appetite over its accustomed level.  You recall that
>	appetite is, to a large extent, regulated by our glycogen 
>	stores.  With a steady, ongoing exercise program to which we have 
>	become accustomed, glycogen stores fluctuate within the
>	accustomed range together with our appetites, and all is in
>	balance.  But we can exceed the usual range and really turn on
>	appetite when we make a drastic change in the nature of our
>	activity."
>
>Katahn goes on to describe how his appetite after a vigorous weight
>training workout reduced him to "near criminal activity" searching
>for food an hour or so after the workout.

Katahn presents this as a transition effect - once you become accustomed
to the exercise, 'all is in balance'.  Also, none of the texts show
muscle glycogne levels after weight lifting.  Order of magnitude
calculations are such that two 1/4 kg biceps should have enough glycogen
to do ~300 curls with 100 lbs.  Whole body glycogen reserves for a 70kg
man are equivalent to ~1000 squats with 1000lbs total weight.
Multi hour fiend weight workouts might put a dent in this, but
unfit people won't. The claim that appetite is largely regulated by
glycogen stores is also suspect. 

>it is likely that you could 
>actually eat more than is needed to replenish the glycogen and then
>store the excess as fat.

The whole trend of carbo loading was
initiated by researchers who found that muscle glycogen was not rapidly
replenished by subjects eating at will.


-- 
Ed Pavelchek   ekp@mcnc.org
But I make a profit of 3 1/4 cents an egg by selling them for 4 1/4
cents an egg to the people in Malta I buy them from for 7 cents an egg.
Of course, *I* don't make the profit.          Joseph Heller, Catcha 22
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: ss8f@csissun5.ee.Virginia.EDU ()
Subject: T-Bar Rows
Followup-To: ss8f@virginia.edu
Originator: ss8f@csissun5.ee.Virginia.EDU
Organization: University of Virginia
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 13:31:50 GMT

Hi,
	I have a question on the form for T-Bar Rows. I find that the weightr
	I use while giving me a good workout also puts a lot of strain on my
	lower back. I do bend my knees a bit. My question is: should my
	lower back be straight or `rounded?' Should I keep my spine io
	in a 'S' shape or try for a 'C' shape?

	Any info. will be appreciated.
	Thanks
	Sanjay
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: barry@arnold.math.ucla.edu (Barry Merriman)
Subject: Re: how long should soreness last?
Organization: UCLA, Mathematics Department
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 00:00:58 GMT

In article <BuIyny.60q.2@cs.cmu.edu> cline+@cs.cmu.edu (Kenneth Cline) writes:
> Hard earned advice:
> 
> Pain is bad.  Exercise should not be significantly painful or result
> in notable soreness.  Pain that lingers for more than two days is a
> sign of overuse.
> 

I tend to disagree. When I'm bodybuilding, if a workout doesn't 
leave the muscle sore for at least one day (often up to 3 days), 
I don't think you have taxed it much. Just be sure to let it heal
fully. It should be non-sore for at least one full day befor trainign it 
hard again.

When powerlifting, my 'trainer' (who is a very good power lifter),
warned me the pain would be different than bodybuilding, but to just 
ignore it and work through it. Training with muscle pain is a fact of life
in power lifting. Also, the pain is not like the soreness one gets
from bodybuilding----its real pain! Still, his advice has been correct.
I've trained with a lot of aches and pains, and made good strength gains.
(I've had so much pain that I couldn't stand up between sets---but he was
still right. When it came to the lifts, the pain didn't effect them.)

I'd say only this: never train with a pain that is associated
with  a loss of strength: that's a sign of a true injury that needs to heal.

--
Barry Merriman
UCLA Dept. of Math
UCLA Inst. for Fusion and Plasma Research
barry@math.ucla.edu (Internet; NeXTMail is welcome)


Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: g5000005@nickel.laurentian.ca
Subject: Re: Wanted: NordicTrak Ski Simulator
Organization: Laurentian University
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 03:17:00 GMT

In <1992Sep14.222747.26700@stortek.com> pae@blackcat.stortek.com 
 (Phil Earnhardt) writes:

>What you say is inconsistent with what Covert Bailey and other people
>researching fitness have said. The NT has the ability to raise one's
>metabolism to a training pulse rate quite rapidly and easily hold it there.
>It's certainly using most of the major muscle groups, and it's a non-jarring
>exercise. 

	I'm not quite sure what you mean by "has the ability to raise one's
metabolism to a training pulse rate"...?  Metabolism and pulse rate are quite 
independent of one another. If you mean that the NT allows you to exercise in
your 'target' exercise heart rate zone, then yes, I agree. However, when using
the NT, there are two events occurring:
 
	1) You are on a learning curve with regard to the technique of using 
the machine. Once you become proficient at the technique, it gets harder to 
elicit that 'target' exercise heart rate.
	2) As you get fitter, you require more resistance to elicit that 
'target' exercise heart rate. As I understand the NT machine, you quickly run 
out of resistance settings.

	Given the above events, I still stand by my original post. I still 
think that there are cheaper, more exciting and more effective ways to 
exercise.  

>With the exception of swimming, nothing is wrong with the other aerobic
>exercises you listed, particularly if you add some upper-body component to the
>aerobic exercise. For losing fat, swimming is one of the less effective
                                   -------------------------------------
>exercises.
 ---------

	Oh? And on what basis do YOU make that statement? My first degree was in
Kinesiology and I thought I learnt that swimming and nordic skiing were the BEST
in terms of aerobic exercise! Please set me straight on this one...
	
	
>>	Being a nordic ski coach (+12 years), people are rather suprised to 
>>hear me shoot down the NordicTrack (in spite of Bill Koch's endorsement |^) !)
>>but it is really not that effective (resistance is everything!).

>Not effective for what? On what do you base that statement? Also, what do you
>mean by "resistance is everything?"

	See above comments, Phil.

Nordic Norm

>--phil
Newsgroups: misc.fitness