HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ins548h@lindblat.cc.monash.edu.au (Mr M.S. Popkowski)
Subject: Re: Serdar Argic and His Posts
Organization: Monash University
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 02:39:59 GMT

Mike Gorelik (gorelik@xsoft.xerox.com) wrote:
: In article <vzhivov.721689700@cunews>, vzhivov@alfred.carleton.ca (Vladimir Zhivov) writes:
: |> Mr. Argic, kindly keep your propaganda to other groups (better if you
: |> kept it to yourself); I'm interested in current Soviet (CIS) politics,
: 
: 	If so, you are in the wrong group.
How come? Isn't it "talk.politics.soviet", not "talk.politics.turkish-greek"?
I'm also fed up with Mr. Argic's postings
: 
: |> and don't want to see this group flooded by blitherings about "the
: |> evil Armenian fascists". 
: |>                                                   Vladimir
: 
: -- 
: -----
: mike gorelik			
: 
Mirek Popkowski
: I like my potatoe genetically engineered.
: -----
From: thietaniemi@cc.helsinki.fi
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Language tests in ESTONIA (Was: "Ethnic violence.."
Date: 22 Nov 92 16:39:08 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki

In article <1992Nov22.111426.7241@enea.se>, sommar@enea.se (Erland Sommarskog) 
> John.Slatter@durham.ac.uk writes:
>>As to the language tests, I was told when in Tallinn this August that
>>they are composed in such a way that many Estonians could not pass them.
>
> Who told you? Estonians? Russians? Did you meet anyone who had tried
> the tests, but failed?

I suspect that there existed any tests during August. The supreme soviet
and the government of Estonia were still quarreling, which kind of linguistic
abilities should be required from the applicants (500, 1000, 1500, 2000
or 2500 words).

Accordingly, any information given about the nature of language tests in 
August is deeply suspect.

> The way the citizenship law works it is very unlikely that anyone
> has tried these tests yet. The law requires two years of residency
> before you can apply, and then there is a one year waiting period
> under which you must pass the langauge test. The two years of
> residency is counted not from arrival but from a "day zero" in
> March 1990. Thus, it will take some more time until we see what
> the language test is worth.
> --
> Erland Sommarskog - ENEA Data, Stockholm - sommar@enea.se

You are almost right.

I got the information yesterday (still, not confirmed) that until this week, 
the test in Estonian language was passed by 12000 individuals that will apply
for citizenship (about 9000 of them were residents of Tallinn).

Another fact: some reactionary Russian groups are spreading nasty rumours
about these tests, it is true. The very same people spread war propaganda
about non-existent violence against the Jews in Estonia.

Still, I have not seen any test papers, yet. I will comment the issue when
I get more information. Perhaps I prove my knowledge in Estonian and try to pass
the test :) But there is no hurry - I have no reasons to expect
that there were something wrong with these tests. Such a thing would deeply
surprise me.


with best regards,
the observer
Tapani Hietaniemi, Universitas Helsingiensis
                   urbs fennorum
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
From: arto@leland.Stanford.EDU (Artavazd Khachikian)
Subject: Re: Azeri Nuclear Weapons
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 20:18:37 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.145536.12905@urartu.sdpa.org> dbd@urartu.sdpa.org (David Davidian) writes:
>It seems last night on CBS News w/Dan Rather an Azeri nuclear threat was
>reported regarding their war with the Armenians of Nagorno-Karabakh. 
>
>Has anybody heard of any confirming reports from other sources? BBC has 
>reported nothing of the kind for at least the past 12 hours

This information first came through the Radio Liberty channels.
The threat was made by the Azeri Interior Minister, as I recall.
He mentioned that Azerbaijan has 6 nuclear warheads and it will use
them against Yerevan if Armenia does not come to senses.

This statement, along with the announcements of the Azeri government
that the war has to end, comes to show that Azerbaijan is really getting
tired of the war.

For David: Yes aveli manramasn teghekatvutiun arajarketsi ugharkel
groong tsants', arajarks ugharketsi aram adishianin, bayts na anpataskhan
toghets im bolor namakner' - mot 7 namak antsats 4 orum.

Yete iharke da ham`ndanur kampania chi im dem, khdrum em indz
teghekatsnel, ardiok im noruiunneri togharkumner' hasnum en dzez
te voch. Yes i nkati unem Haykakan Herustatesutian norutiunner'.
Ete im bolor dimumner' sharunaken anpataskhan mnal, yes annpatak
khamarem voreve kap pashtapanel dzer tsanki het, norutiunner' nerarial.

Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
From: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee)
Subject: Re: Well, apparently we have another "revisionist" to expose: 
Organization: Johns Hopkins University CS Dept.
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 19:23:46 GMT

In article <By2x68.91G@news.cso.uiuc.edu> daniels@ih-nxt07.cso.uiuc.edu (Daniel Ray Sawyer) writes:
>I have half the mind to think that
>constantly making a big deal out of past wrongs actually ENCOURAGES this
>stuff to happen again.

Argic/Mutlu's postings are the equivalent of the Nazis making a big deal out of
it, not the Jews.  He wants to sufficiently confuse people so that they think
the Armenian Genocide (which was real) and the "genocide" in the other
direction (which was not real) are equal.

He preys on people's desire to want to ignore both sides, and uses it to
make his side equal with the other side, the only real side.  That's how he
wins.  If you think that both sides are equal and you can't distinguish
between them, Mutlu has already won.

I suppose you're technically right.  Mutlu makes a big deal out of the
"genocide" where the Jews killed the Nazis, um, I mean Armenians killed the
Turks, because he wants the real one to happen again.
--
"the bogosity in a field equals the bogosity imported from related areas, plus
the bogosity generated internally, minus the bogosity expelled or otherwise
disposed of."  -- K. Eric Drexler

Ken Arromdee (arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu, arromdee@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.turkish,soc.culture.iranian,talk.politics.mideast,soc.rights.human
From: dbd@urartu.sdpa.org (David Davidian)
Subject: Update on Azerbaijani Threatened Nuclear Attack on Armenia
Organization: S.D.P.A. Center for Regional Studies
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 04:04:16 GMT

The following is a compilation of various sources regarding the threatened
Azerbaijani nuclear attack against Armenia.

I want to thank those who contributed to this compilation.

-------------

Radio Liberty Daily Report   No. 221, 16 November 1992 AZERBAIJANI INTERIOR 
MINISTER THREATENS NUCLEAR STRIKE AGAINST ARMENIA. Azerbaijani Interior 
Minister Iskander Gamidov, who has ties with the Turkish right wing National
Labor Party ("Grey Wolves), claimed at the third congress of the Azerbaijan
Musavat Party in Baku that Azerbaijan has a total of six nuclear weapons, and 
that "if the Armenians do not come to their senses" he would authorize a 
nuclear strike against Erevan, according to Rossiiskaya gazeta of 13 November.
Gamidov also reportedly advocated the creation of a Turanian state that would
encompass northern Iran, and extend to Siberia, China and India.  (Liz Fuller, 
RFE/RL, Inc.)

-------------

Turan News Agency (Baku) BAKU (20 Nov.) TURAN: Chairman of the parliament isa 
gambarov distributd the official statement, running that Azerbaijan had no 
nuclear weapons on his territory.
   It was interior minister iskander hamidov who engineered another political 
fight with his next baloney.  The minister pubicaly declared that he had 
several nuclar bombs and would drop them on armenia, should the latter fail to 
stop its aggression against Azerbaijan.
   The chairman of the parliament announced at the milli mejlis today that such
irresponsible declarations were giving rise to the world community's distrucst 
and might have grave complications for the republic.
   Members of the milli mejlis also condemn the interior minister's actions.

-------------

-- 
David Davidian dbd@urartu.sdpa.org "It has been ever thus in all things, son, 
SDPA Center for Regional Studies    Whatever we thrash we give to the wind, 
P.O. Box 382761                     We too have been blown by the world's wind
Cambridge, MA 02238                 The chaff is gone but the grain remains."
From: wiener@duke.cs.duke.edu (Edward Wiener)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: How long...?
Date: 15 Nov 92 23:42:55 GMT
Organization: Duke University Computer Science Dept.; Durham, N.C.


Broward Horne:


         >How long till Yeltin goes down?

         >At least, how long till someone tries?

         >And hey, how 'bout that Russian Nationalism movement?



Thanks in part to the infinite wisdom of Western heads of state, who
for years promised to deliver aid to the faltering Soviet
and now Russian Governments, and who finally pledged $24 billion
in economic assistance, but have not delivered _a single penny_,
this day may come sooner than expected.


But hey, you write like a moron anyway.
Back to talking to the wall...

-- Ed
From: alexm@CIPR-SERVER.MGH.HARVARD.EDU ("", Alex Milshteyn)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: STOP IT !
Date: 22 Nov 92 16:04:07 GMT
Reply-To: "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" <TPS-L@indycms.bitnet>

PLEASE DO NOT SEND ME ANY MORE MAIL!
THIS IS MY SECOND REQUEST TO STOP IT.
YOU SEND MEAT LEAST 4 MB OF YOU "LITERATURE"
EVERY DAY WITHOUT MY CONSENT.  I AM SICK
AND TIRED IF IT.  IF IT DOES NOT STOP,
I WILL FILL OBLIGED TO CONTACT YOUR SYSADM.



ALEXM@CIPR-SERVER.MGH.HARVARD.EDU
From: arto@leland.Stanford.EDU (Artavazd Khachikian)
Subject: Re: Signal/noise ratio in t.p.s.
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 00:05:24 GMT

In article <1992Nov22.192726.23071@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu> mkagalen@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu (michael kagalenko) writes:
>In article <1992Nov22.005023.17682@husc3.harvard.edu> verbit@coolidge.harvard.edu (Mikhail S. Verbitsky) writes:
>
>>43 articles from Mutlu, one from Ryyti, 6 with responses on Mutlu
>>and about 15 which I read...
>>The world is going to end.
>>
>>I dream about Armenian terrorists. I know they are a myth,
>>but if there is one remaining, please give me a call.
>>I hope very much that one day you will find this invulnerable
>>AI idiot and kill him once and for all. Do you need something?
>>A conspiratory flat, physical support, donation? I will 
>>give you *everything* to atone myself on this creature!
>>
>>Misha.
>
>Despite my unfriendly attitude toward fyl... phyl... ( Tfu, tchort !) 
>philology, I'd admit that I've never read more reasonable posting. 
>Hey, Armenian terrorists ! You've got one more supporter. Details 
>by mail.

	Well .... well ... I remember my grand-grand-grandfather
was in this business a long time ago. He was an advisor to the Turkish
Sultan on e-mail and computer networks in Constantinople. Once
Hasan Mutlu got the position, he killed the Sultan
and his favorite wife Zulfia. Along with 13 others.
It is a very sad story.

	And although  am opposed to violent resistence to evil,
I think even Lev Tolstoy would understand. Does any body know
a good lawyer?
From: an030@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Broward Horne)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: How long to the Coup?
Date: 15 Nov 1992 23:05:36 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: an030@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Broward Horne)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


         How long till Yeltin goes down?

         At least, how long till someone tries?

         And hey, how 'bout that Russian Nationalism movement?
From: verbit@coolidge.harvard.edu (Mikhail S. Verbitsky)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: ALKSNIS threats the BALTIC states
Date: 22 Nov 92 05:21:25 GMT
Organization: Sozialistische Patienten Kollektiv

In article <1992Nov19.144642.1@cc.helsinki.fi> thietaniemi@cc.helsinki.fi writes:

>Quoting e-mail (Baltlist):
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> The Baltic Independent of November 6-12 carried several relevant items.

>> In a separate report in the BI, bylined Lisa Trei, the so-called Black
>> Colonel gave some blood-curdling predictions. Colonel Alksnis
>> predicted that baltics independence would last five or ten
>> years, but would fail step by step. "That is the mild scenario.
>> The tough scenario is similar to what happened in the
>> Trans-Dniestr. As soon as the first shot is fired in Estonia Russia
>> will respond.... the nationalist radicals in Estonia are doing
>> everything possible to ensure that the shooting will begin. We
>> are waiting for the minute when the situation will explode. It
>> doesn't need any stirring up. Its already hot.

>> We are optimistic that the future independence of Estonia will fail
>> because it is 90 percent tied to the centre. The existing
>> powers hope that they can still save the economy with bilateral
>> relations with other countries but that is an illusion.. the
>> level of integration will just force the existing powers
>> to leave and others to take their place..."

>---------------------------------------------------------------------

>sent with no comment by
>the observer
>Tapani Hietaniemi, Universitas Helsingiensis
>                   urbs fennorum

And it would be very interesting to hear someone's from Estonian side
comments: for me Alksnis, as ever, speaks sheer truth.
Does someone disagree?

Misha.
From: simon1@bass.bu.edu (Simon Streltsov)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Maris, Komis, Udmurts, Mordvas, Karelians...on the net
Date: 22 Nov 92 02:20:22 GMT
Reply-To: simon1@bass.bu.edu (Simon Streltsov)
Followup-To: talk.politics.soviet
Organization: Boston University

In article <1ejfjbINN5bj@agate.berkeley.edu> muh@physics.Berkeley.EDU (Yury M. Mukharsky) writes:
>In article <1992Nov20.065853.14857@jyu.fi> ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti) writes:
>>
> Are there any mordvians, maris, komis, udmurts,ingrians, Russiafinns,
> karelians, vepsians, vatians, mansis,nganasans, nenets',ingeroins,
> komiperjaks, livvis, lyydis, saamis, hantis, selkups on the net?
> Fenno-ugrians of Russia?
> I am curious to know.
>>
>Any hunns or finikians?
No, Jews killed all Phoenicians (sp?) a long time ago.
As to hunns, they name themselves Frenchmen and
don't like the old name.

As to finns in Karelia,
a well-known census found only 3 (three):
Finn,Finkel'shtein, Fininspektor,
but later all three were found to be the same person

Simon Streltsov,
Boston Univresity

"If you go on the road and come to a fork - Take it!"


Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
From: cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi)
Subject: Re: How Long to the Coup DeVille?
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Lowell Computer Science
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 01:43:23 GMT

In article <9211162316.AA08568@inet-gw-2.pa.dec.com> GCTHORNE@idbsu.idbsu.edu ("Broward " The Moron " Horne") writes:
>From: wiener@duke.cs.duke.edu (Edward Wiener)
>Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
>Subject: Re: How long...?
>Message-ID: <721870973@locust.cs.duke.edu>
>Date: 15 Nov 92 23:42:55 GMT
>Organization: Duke University Computer Science Dept.; Durham, N.C.
>Lines: 23
>
>>Thanks in part to the infinite wisdom of Western heads of state, who
>>for years promised to deliver aid to the faltering Soviet
>>and now Russian Governments, and who finally pledged $24 billion
>>in economic assistance, but have not delivered _a single penny_,
>>this day may come sooner than expected.
>
>        Yeah, so?  Are you surprised?  Come on, let's hear an
>        in-depth analysis of how long Boris has left.  I'm making
>        plans for Uruguay, and I kind of would like to be gone
>        before the fireworks start.
>
>>But hey, you write like a moron anyway.
>>Back to talking to the wall...
>
>           No.  Just a cynic.  Unfortunately, I'm rarely surprised
>           since I became one.  Whatever works.
$24 billion promised aid:
   $18 billion went to X-Soviet creditors. The loan X-Soviet owned to
Westen private companies, became that owned to Westen Government, which
X-Soviet may have harder time to not paying on time than owning to
private companies.
   Rest of $6:
     IMF promised $1(dilivered?), in exchange for Russia's further 
privatization, which contributed partially to current situation.
The "aid" is no more than a "pain killer" for X-Soviet(Russia)  to die
further but slowly, not vilently.
From: arto@leland.Stanford.EDU (Artavazd Khachikian)
Subject: Balkans
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 23:25:02 GMT

	A new mine was layed in the Balkans today. Turkey signed a 
military cooperation treaty with Albania, aimed against
Serbia/Montenegro. Given the situation in Kosovo with Albanians,
the tension in Macedonia, Bosnia, Croatia etc. the situation
is becoming really bad.

	The main poles of tension in the Balkans thus include:
Serbia/Montenegro - Bosnia/Hercegovina, Serbia-Croatia, Serbia-Albania,
Serbia-Macedonia, Greece-Macedonia, Greece-Cyprus-Turkey, Turkey-Bulgaria,
Turkey-Albania-Serbia and so on.

	Add the "big guys": Russia and US, add Iran and the Muslim factor,
and you have a bomb ready to explode any moment. 

	Add the Caucasus, add Central Asia, add the Middle East,
and you will nostalgically remember the "good old" Cold War.

	I hope Archduke Ferdinand is not planning a trip to Sarajevo
this year.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.soviet,soc.rights.human,soc.culture.turkish
From: dbd@urartu.sdpa.org (David Davidian)
Subject: Re: Helsinki Watch Report
Summary: First, Second, Third 
Organization: S.D.P.A. Center for Regional Studies
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 05:38:22 GMT

In article <1992Nov15.192016.1673@physics.ucla.edu> viznyuk@physics.ucla.edu 
Sergei Viznyuk) responded to <1992Nov15.160140.20410@urartu.sdpa.org> 
dbd@urartu.sdpa.org (David Davidian) who wrote:

[DD] The following is a Helsinki Watch report on the Russian Interior Ministry
[DD] forces and the Azeri OMON Military Forces during the late spring and
[DD] summer of 1991.

[SV] Just a lii-i-ttle remark. First, it was not _Russian_ Interior
[SV] Ministry Forces which were engaged (on whatever side) in Karabakh mess,
[SV] but _Soviet_.

Your "lii-i-ttle" remark is both true and accurate!

[SV] Second, the "Helsinki Watch" has discredited itself
[SV] as more or less reliable source of information, by claiming some
[SV] stupid stuff about violation of minorities rights in Russia, in
[SV] particular concerning Chechens (!!!), and Meskhetian Turks (!!!),
[SV] while managing not to notice the flagrant human rights violations
[SV] in neigboring Latvia and Estonia. 

I have noticed the same characteristic about most all human rights watch
groups. Human rights groups, even Amnesty International, tend to concentrate in
some regions or certain social settings when, in fact, there are horrible 
violations in other areas. However, such concentrations do not negate the 
reports in those areas they happen to concentrate on. For example, last year,
at the end of June, 1991, I forwarded -- personally -- to Amnesty International
reports of gross human rights violations, actual barbarism I had obtained by
human rights groups in Armenia concerning the Azeri treatment of Armenians
captured during the Soviet Interior Ministry/Azeri Forces sweep during 
Operation Ring. These reports contained names of people and places of capture. 
I never read about any reports nor heard from AI again even though, I was told,
AI had alternate verification of my reports. In fact, during this period I 
never read any AI report on the Soviet Union.

[SV] Third, if the "Helsinki Watch" at least tried to make some air of 
[SV] objectivity, they would have asked the witnesses from Azeri side as well.

Normally, one would expect to have interviewed Azeris, however, Operation
Ring was a clear offensive by the Soviet Interior Ministry & Azeri OMON 
Armed Forces. I doubt any human rights groups would interview soldiers
attacking civilians to get the "other side" of the story.

Helsinki Watch has other reports concerning the situation in Nagorno-Karabakh,
including interviews with Azeris.


-- 
David Davidian dbd@urartu.sdpa.org "It has been ever thus in all things, son, 
SDPA Center for Regional Studies    Whatever we thrash we give to the wind, 
P.O. Box 382761                     We too have been blown by the world's wind
Cambridge, MA 02238                 The chaff is gone but the grain remains." 
Xref: sparky talk.politics.soviet:8923 talk.politics.mideast:22174 soc.culture.soviet:9957
From: deniz@mandolin.ctr.columbia.edu (Deniz Akkus)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet,talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Does anybody disagree with Mutlu among his compatriots?
Date: 16 Nov 92 18:02:52 GMT
Article-I.D.: sol.1992Nov16.180252.26592
Organization: Columbia University Center for Telecommunications Research
X-Posted-From: mandolin.ctr.columbia.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1992Nov16.001730.12114@leland.Stanford.EDU> arto@leland.Stanford.EDU (Artavazd Khachikian) writes:
>I have a question to all the Turkish participants in these newsgroups.
>
>Is there any one among you who disagrees with Mutlu/Argic postings?
>If yes, please let us know.

I for one do, but do not normally read soc.culture.soviet,
talk.politics.mideast, or talk.politics.soviet.  I do not see the point
of your posting such a statement to a newsgroup that Turks may or may
not read as opposed to soc.culture.turkish.  I am also tired of
Turks being made to denounce Mutlu whomever he might be, over and over.
I have posted on soc.culture.turkish saying that I do not agree with
what he writes, and so has other people.  I don't see the use of such
postings, other than to reassure some people that Turks are not
entirely behind Mutlu although how  people can think that a diverse
group of computer users whose main point in common is being Turkish
could be assumed to totally back Mutlu is beyond me.  My kill file
usually takes care of all Mutlu postings quite nicely, but I can't say
the same about the usually insulting messages about Turks that come
flying soc.culture.turkish way because of Mutlu.  Would you mind putting
a label such as "Turk bashing because of Mutlu" or "Asking for the
1000th time, do you Turks support Mutlu" as subject to the relevant
postings so I can kill them too?? 

I suspect Mutlu is not Turkish.

regards,
Deniz Akkus deniz@ctr.columbia.edu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
From: ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti)
Subject: Maris, Komis, Udmurts, Mordvas, Karelians...on the net
Organization: University of Jyvaskyla, Finland
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 06:58:53 GMT


Are there any mordvians, maris, komis, udmurts,ingrians, Russiafinns,
karelians, vepsians, vatians, mansis,nganasans, nenets',ingeroins,
komiperjaks, livvis, lyydis, saamis, hantis, selkups on the net?
Fenno-ugrians of Russia?
I am curious to know.

With best regards,

Jarmo Ryyti
"Suomi - a country under the North Star"
From: muh@physics.Berkeley.EDU (Yury M. Mukharsky)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Maris, Komis, Udmurts, Mordvas, Karelians...on the net
Date: 20 Nov 1992 19:51:07 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: physics.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Nov20.065853.14857@jyu.fi> ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti) writes:
>
 Are there any mordvians, maris, komis, udmurts,ingrians, Russiafinns,
 karelians, vepsians, vatians, mansis,nganasans, nenets',ingeroins,
 komiperjaks, livvis, lyydis, saamis, hantis, selkups on the net?
 Fenno-ugrians of Russia?
 I am curious to know.
>
Any hunns or finikians?

Yury M.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet