From: sundar@indigo1.hsis.uci.edu (M. Sundaramoorthy)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
Subject: EVR alias Periyar - Dr. Srini, pleas read
Date: 19 Aug 92 19:44:59 GMT
Article-I.D.: orion.2A92A4BB.2673
Organization: University of California, Irvine

In article <Bt8oMr.53I@ireq.hydro.qc.ca> srini@ireq-num.hydro.qc.ca (Srinivasan
K.) writes:
>This thread has become too long. I do not read most of the postings on this,
>any more. However these are my views. I notice most postings are attacking
>each other and using the occation to side track to other issues.
>
        I do feel the same way as Dr. Srinivasan. I agree with few of his
        points and partly disagree on some.

>1. The fact that EVR was acclaimed 'periyaar' and we are still talking about
>him, means that he had a dent on the Tamil society.

        True. A question: Giving titles  is only in 20th century Tamil
        culture (before any one jumps that it is 'Dravidian' culture, Congress
        veterans do have titles. eg. Rajagopalachari - moodhaRinyar,
        Kamaraj -karmaveerar, Poet: Suramanya (bharathi) etc.). Bharathiyaar
        coined a word for 'revolution' -puratchi. Not it lost its meaning.
        I don't understand why these people don't want to be called by their
        original names, after all they were given by their 'beloved parents'.

        There is a similar trend among serious writers also. Adopting
        pseudonymes is very common among Tamil writers, but not so
        among Malayalam or Kannada writers.

>2. He like MGR was concerned more with social issues, than Anna and MKar,
>who are more for Tamil culture.

        This is subjective. Anna and Mu.Ka. may be more proficient in quoting
        ancient literature and invoking the names of kings, but assuming that
        they were less concerned about social issues is debatable.

        In my opinion Mu.Ka. and MGR come under the same category as far as
        not representing their caste interests, but Anna represents more of
        'veLLaLa power group (I mean land owning class)'. Except MGR and Mu.Ka.
        all other chief ministers of TN represented more of their caste
        interests. These two were more bothered about satisfying their ego.

>3. He was less concerned about creating unity among Tamil people, than
>about which group has right to how much, like foxes after leftovers of
>lion's hunt.

        I partly agree here. His 'Tamil unity' did not include only Brahmins.

>4. Instead of trying to assimilate Bramins into the main stream, he promoted
>their segregation and spread hate propanda.

        I partly agree. It was the seggregation the other way that prompted
        him to do this. Meenan quoted the VVS Iyer issue of seggregating
        brahmin and non-brahmin students in ashram. I feel EVR over reacted.

        Now it no longer appears on the surface, but is still there in
        subtle form on either side.

>5. Tamil Culture and language could have been used to unite people and
>eliminate caste differences, instead he encouraged their differences.
>{The sct formation experiment showed that it is still possible today.
>I wish the politicians as well as those discussing EVR learn this }

        I fully agree with this.

>6. He could not realize, that 5% can have no political strength in a democracy,
>eventually. It would have been lot more productive to integrate them to the
>benefit of all, than to make them a alien minority in their home.

        I partly agree with this. Democracy is not just head counting. If that
        is the case, India should be ruled by untouchables, who may be single
        largest group. Still, there is lot opposition to make a sc/st person
        a  president. It is easy for a brahmin to become a president or
        prime minister than a non-brahmin or sc/st. In vote gathering
        process, not only the numbers matter, but the awarness of the public,
        which largely comes through education, controle of bueracracy, media
        etc. Brahmins still have lion's share in these things.

>7. He did encourage the minority to emigrate to Delhi, Bombay and even as far
>as the present Pakistan, to where my father moved in 1939.

        I agree with this fully. Dalit writer Poomani wrote a novel on this
        theme. The story is about an 'agraharam' that is fully deserted in
        Tirunelveli region and plight of the people who lived there.

        But the criticism for this novel was something interesting.

        "you can't find those people in the slums and platforms of Madras or
        Bombay, but they be will in the affluent neighbourhoods of the
        cosmopolitan cities".

        This is an issue to ponder. But still we can call it 'plight' because
        the migration ensured better life only economically, but not
        culturally ( more or less simlar to SL Tamils in western countries).

        (BTW, the title of the novel is 'naivEththiyam' if one is interested).

>8. Though his statues and names stand, his philosophies have all been
>forgotten for good. People have not abandoned the Gods and Temples. Bramins
>have more respect today, than they did during his hate propaganda campaign.

        True, the statues and names stand. His philophies are  not completely
        wrong either. There are something to  retain, something to throw.

        Marxists in Tamil Nadu overlooked caste in determining the society,
        but only looked class. On the other hand EVR and his followers
        took only caste factor, but not class. Congress people didn't bother
        about either, though they pretended.

        That is why all CPI/CPI(M), DK/DMK and Congress lost their
        relevance today. I heard from friends that Marxist-Leninist parties
        are gaining popularity.

>9. Meenan has every right to post the contents of a Ph.D thesis, or book.

        Yes.

>10. If there are inaccuracies, one should point it out.

        Yes.

>11. There is no point in flaming each other. The author of the thesis is
>obviously not concerned about Tamils or their future.

        May be.
>
>K. Srinivasan
>

        The intensity of this discussion may be due to the current political
        situation in Tamil Nadu. It would have not gone to this level, if
        it was in 80s.

        But the funny thing is K. Veeramani who is supposed to represent
        'Periyaar principles' has joined hands with Jayalalitha, who is seen
        to be representing 'Brahminism'. He goes on supporting her every
        move in 'bringing back the brahminism'.

        He praised her as ' peNNurimayin pirathinidhi' and promised that his
        'karunchattaip padai' will be behind all her 'revolutionary schemes'.

        The reason is very interesting: She donated Five lakh rupees to
        Periyaar trust.

	Neo-Brahminism of non-brahmins (ie Non-brahmins trying to emulate
	brahmins in every aspect of life) is as dangererous as brahminism.
	So when we talk about brahminism, it should include everyone who  
	adheres to that, irrespective of his/her actual caste. Meenan's
	'vegetarianism' is also a part of 'brahminism' as the 'non-
	vegetarianism' is a part of mainstream Tamil culture. Strictly
	following 'thirukkuRaL' (it is impossible anyway) doesn't make
	one a follower of Tamil culture. So many things have happened
	after that and there were so many thing before 'vaLLuvar', which
	do not go with 'thirukkRaL'. I remember a non-vegetarian reference
	in Sangam poetry, though don't remember the full verse. It is
	
	'ooN cuvai adicil' 

	(ooN - meat, flesh; adicil - food).

	Even Periyapuranam, supposed to be a Saivist book, denounces only
	beaf eating, but not others.  

	Nandhanaar is called 'maadu thinnum pulaiyan'.

	Kannappan offers animal flesh to the God.

	The God eats human flesh in SiruthoNdar Naayanaar puraaNam.
	(Sivan is called 'pillaik kaRi thinRavan' as he asked for and ate
	the flesh of SeeraaLan, son of SiruthoNdar Naayanaar to test his
	devotion to him).

	Majority Tamils are non-vegetarian and animal sacrifice is common
	in non-brahminical rituals. 
	
        I feel it is irrelavant now to talk all these things, which are only
        hypothetical issues now. Let us look for some contemporary issues.

        This will be my last posting on this thread and I will post my
        views on 'reservation' next. With that I will retire from discussing
        'hot issues' and go to social and literary issues, which are almost
        nil (don't call Kannadasan's lyrics are literary master pieces).

M. Sundaramoorthy
sundar@indigo1.hsis.uci.edu