From: john@anasazi.com (John R. Moore)
Subject: Re: GayBashing question
Reply-To: john@anasazi.com
Organization: Anasazi, Inc.  Phoenix, Arizona USA
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 17:35:32 GMT

Keywords: 

In article <1993Jan24.235342.5141@cltr.uq.OZ.AU> yal@cltr.uq.oz.au (Yvette Lian) writes:
]In article <C1DGu4.89B@news.cso.uiuc.edu> vengeanc@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu () writes:
]>Gee.. why don't you give your little speech to a friend of MINE who was
]>beat to all hell because he was a white guy walking through Chicago.
]>Why don't you give your little speech to all the white guys down here
]>who were attacked last year, JUST BECAUSE THEY WERE WHITE.  Funny thing
]>is, I don't seem to recall any attacks on gays in that same time period...
]
]Please do give it to your friend.  And don't think for one minute that I
]condone what happened to him.  All these hate crimes are wrong and
]dispicable.  What I'm annoyed about (if I can use such a light word for
]such a strong subject) is that certain crimes (like gay bashing, black
]bashings, etc) seem to be considered acceptable by a lot of people who
]think it's the "right thing".  These problems need to be addressed.
]There's no point saying things like "oh, you blacks/gays/latinos/other
]minority group get special rights", then sweeping their problems under the
]carpet, nor is there any point in denying the fact that you have those very
]same rights.

Give it a rest. Do you know anyone who considers these acceptable? I
sure don't, and I know a lot of people from a lot of different
subcultures. I do, however, hear our media constantly trumpeting the
evil of "gay bashing" or "hate crimes" against blacks, while NEVER
commenting on the evil of black on white violence. To me, that gives
tacit approval to the black on white violence, or at least sends the
message that attacking a gay because he is gay or a black because he
is black is morally worse than attacking a white because he is white.
This hypocrisy grates on the nerves of those of us who are not
"politically correct."
]
]
]gay, straight, purple-with-orange-spots or whatever.  "us liberals" are
]trying to make this world a better place.  That means making straight
Yes, but you are doing it by denying reality, and by using the coercive
force of government and the smothering effect of bureaucracy. All of us
are trying to make the world a better place - some of us are, however,
willing to recognize and accept realities and practical limitations.

]people aware of the fact that gay bashing is NOT an acceptable pastime.  It
Aw, come on. Who do you think is not aware of this that is going to be
changed by your whining?

]As for accusing "elitist white men" of racism, discrimination and
]oppression... I try to avoid generalisations like that.  They take me
]nowhere.  And more importantly, they're just another barrier to
]establishing better relationships between groups.

But attacking gay bashing without simultaneously attacking all other
kinds of bashing creates such generalizations. The whole concept of
"hate crimes" means that someone's membership in some group makes his
death more important that someone who was not killed for his membership
in some group. This is dangerously loose logic.

]I don't deny it.  You might like to wonder why it's gotten to the point you
]can't go places because you're white.  Could it be that the non-white
]people living there feel just a little upset by the way they've been
]treated in the past 200 or so years?  Could it be they're scared they might
]be hurt again by someone they see to be white?  Maybe you should be
]addressing the problem.

I don't know of ANY black person who has been mistreated for 200 or so years.
Do they live longer in Australia? Would it make any difference? Is it any sort
of justification? Is it okay for me to be attacked for the crimes my
great grandparents committed against the great grandparents of the attacker?
They may believe in this in the Balkans, but I hope we don't accept it as
a general tenent of American civilization.

As far as addressing the problem, you show once again the lack of reality
in liberal thinking. How the hell can I address what my great-grandparents
did? Why the hell should I? What planet do YOU live on?
]
]sweetie?  Did a nice black girl reject your advances because you were being
]a slime-ball?  You seem also unaware that anti-discrimination laws work
]BOTH ways.  They include YOU.  You ARE protected.. but then again, you
]always were.  Now you think that just because others are specifically
]included in those laws that i) they don't apply to you anymore, and ii) the
]law sees them as "special" folk worthy of better treatment than you.
]I wonder why.

Oh boy, here we go. Now you descend quickly into nasty personal attacks.
So much for any more logic in this thread. You must be really desperate
to use "sweety" and "slime-ball" in the same paragraph.

]
]>Consider also this little fact: It's a hell of a lot easier to hide the
]>fact that you're gay than to hide the fact that you're white.
]
]Don't you believe it, kiddo.  And remember, it really is irrelevant as to
You have evidence to the contrary?
]
]>You exhibit CLASSIC liberal ignorance.  This happens ALL THE TIME.  It's
]>just not "media-worthy" because good ole "evil white boy" got what he
]>deserved.  You see, how can the LIBERAL media fight for the rights of Blacks 
]>and Latinos from discrimination if they actually show those same groups 
]>exhibiting the same racism they claim to be experiencing?  
]
]Makes me wonder why the blacks and latinos are discriminating against you
]to start with.  

WHAT THE HELL DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE "WHY"? I thought you liberals wanted
to do away with discrimination. By your statements, it appears that you
think it is justifiable or understandable if done by "oppressed" groups.

Get a life.

-- 
John Moore NJ7E, 7525 Clearwater Pkwy, Scottsdale, AZ 85253  (602-951-9326)
john@anasazi.com ncar!noao!asuvax!anasaz!john anasaz!john@asuvax.eas.asu.edu
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