HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: peter@ferranti.com (peter da silva)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Re: GUIs Considered Harmful
Date: 29 Aug 92 14:24:17 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Xenix Support, FICC

Date: 28 Aug 92 16:25:40 GMT
Message-Id: <id.7ERS.1RG@ferranti.com>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.computers,comp.windows.misc,comp.windows.news,comp.windows.x,comp.human-factors

In article <17j149INNi9r@stanley.cis.Brown.EDU> plutchak@pilsner.geo.brown.edu (Joe Six-pack) writes:
> In article <id.Q4NS.1SE@ferranti.com> peter@ferranti.com (Peter da Silva) writes:
> >In article <1992Aug21.182548.2932@nntp.uoregon.edu> johnm@cajal.uoregon.edu (John Martin) writes:
> >> For kicks sometime, take a person who is used to a CLI and put them on a Mac.
> >> I guarantee that they will not be able to do *anything* useful until they have
> >> either read the manual or experimented a lot.

> >To put it bluntly, this is complete balderdash.

>    Not completely.  How does a CLI person know how to do common things
> like file copying, renaming, moving, etc?

Try it and see.

> I *still* can't remember
> whether dragging & dropping a file icon between directory windows
> on the Macintosh will do a move or a copy, and have trouble remembering
> what bizarre key/mouse combinations it takes to do "the other one."

What bizarre combination? You select copy from the menu.

> At least with VMS and Unix you have 'HELP' and 'man' if you forget
> how to, for example, get confirmations on file deletion.

Well, you used to.

% man: Command not found.

:-<

> (And don't get me started on the idiocy of insisting on a one-button
> mouse, when it just forces you into keyboard overload mode--
> shift-ctrl-click-unshift-drag-doubleclick-unctrl-applekey. :-)

Oh, I don't disagree with that. It's as bad as Emacs' Control Meta
Cokebottle keys.
-- 
Peter da Silva                                               `-_-'
$ EDIT/TECO LOVE                                              'U` 
%TECO-W-OLDJOKE Not war?                        Have you hugged your wolf today?
Ferranti Intl. Ctls. Corp.      Sugar Land, TX  77487-5012       +1 713 274 5180
From: frite@vlsi.polymtl.ca), (Michel Besner)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Getting Paned Window to tile horizontaly ...
Date: 29 Aug 92 09:33:16 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal, lab. INFO

Date: 27 Aug 92 17:06:00 GMT
Message-Id: <1992Aug27.170600.8600@vlsi.polymtl.ca>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x



	Hi there !

		Is it possible to get PanedWindow to lay out children
in a HORIZONTALY tiled format ? I need two frames side by side and
I want to allow the user to resize the two frames with a PanedWindow
or anything similar to it.

	Any suggestions is appreciated :) :)


				Michel Besner, eng.
				Sacred Heart Hospital 
				research center
				Montreal
				mbesner@iris1.metal.polymtl.ca



	"life is a big bowl of Jell-O :) :) ! "
From: @logic.camp.clarkson.edu: impmh!cm@bloom-beacon.mit.edu (Colin Manning)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Wanted: XV image viewesr
Date: 22 Aug 92 00:13:28 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Integrated Micro Products Ltd

Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 15:03:17 GMT
Message-Id: <1992Aug17.150317.9557@impmh.uucp>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x,uk.sources,alt.sources.wanted

Could someone tell me where I can get XV from, or even better,
mail the src to me (as I dont have direct FTP access).

Many thanks,
-- 
Colin Manning     cm@impmh.uucp      Tel: +44 753 516599
From: tmcconne@sedona.intel.com (Tom McConnell)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Re: tvtwm fails with X11.5 on rs6000 (AIX 3.1.6)
Date: 2 Sep 92 02:05:43 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Intel Corporation

Date: 1 Sep 92 18:14:08 GMT
Message-Id: <1992Sep1.181408.13945@ichips.intel.com>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x,comp.unix.aix


In article <1992Aug31.220433.15663@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>, scl@sasha.acc.Virginia.EDU (Steve Losen) writes:
> I built X11.5 on a rs6000 running 3.1.6.  I got the latest source
> for tvtwm (patchlevel 7) and compiled it, but it doesn't work right.
> 
> I was running a MIT X11.4 server on a Sun sparc, but running tvtwm
> and all the other clients on the rs6000.
> 
> Symptom:  tvtwm decorates the windows with titlebars, but I don't
> get any menus when I click on the root window.  Nor does the panner
> appear.  I can iconify/uniconify windows, move them and resize them
> using the titlebar, so I know tvtwm is running.  I got no syntax errors
> from the .tvtwmrc file.  An older version of tvtwm (patchlevel 4)
> compiled under X11.4 runs fine on the rs6000 with this .tvtwmrc.
> I tried compiling both with and without the xpm library (which I
> have built under X11.5).  Neither version worked.
> 
> Has anyone seen this problem and/or have some idea what's wrong?
> I am trying to put together an X11.5 environment for our rs6000
> users, many of whom consider tvtwm essential.
> 
> --
> Steve Losen                     scl@virginia.edu
> 
> University of Virginia Academic Computing Center

  I run tvtwm, patch level 7, with X11R5, patch level [12-16], and it works
fine. I run on: IBM RS/6000's (AIX 3.1.6, AIX 3.2); DEC VAXstation 3100 (ultrix
3.1, ultrix 4.2); Sun SPARC (SunOS 4.1, SunOS 4.1.2); Sun 386i (SunOS 4.0.2);
NCR 3350 (SVR4). Suffice to say there does not appear to be an operating system
dependancy :)

  As of version 7, tvtwm runs the .tvtwmrc file through m4. It may be that the
.tvtwmrc file you have is not compatible with m4. Two common complaints that m4
has are:

    1. An m4 keyword appears out of (m4) context in the .tvtwmrc file. For
      instance, "include" is an m4 keyword.

    2. You use backquotes somewhere in the .tvtwmrc. One of the default "quote"
      characters for m4 is the backquote.

  You can check to see if m4 is breaking by running a little test:

    1. Start tvtwm with the "-k" option. This will generate an include file for
      m4. The file will be called /tmp/twmrc$$ ($$ is variable).

    2. Copy your .tvtwmrc file to a new file, call it fred :)

    3. Inlcude the /tmp/twmrc$$ file at the beginning of fred.

    4. Run m4 on fred, and capture the output:

        % m4 fred >& fred.out

    5. Make sure that m4 does not generate any errors.

    6. "diff" fred.out with fred and make sure the differences make sense.

  If this doesn't fix it, let me know.

    Cheers,

    Tom McConnell
-- 
 Tom McConnell          |     Internet: tmcconne@sedona.intel.com
 Intel, Corp. C3-21     |     Phone: (602)-554-8229
 5000 W. Chandler Blvd. | The opinions expressed are my own. No one in 
 Chandler, AZ  85226    | their right mind would claim them.
From: mfc1493@venus.tamu.edu (Ratboy)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Bugger off, Craig
Date: 21 Aug 92 19:27:08 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services

Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 04:09:00 GMT
Message-Id: <17AUG199223094603@venus.tamu.edu>
Newsgroups: misc.forsale,alt.sex,comp.windows.x,rec.humor,misc.jobs.misc,alt.good.news,alt.postmodern,rec.pets.dogs,talk.politics.guns,soc.singles,alt.fan.monty-python


>	This group is an offensive waste.  'aka' this and that all
>	over the place.  It's almost as bad as hearing the same lightbulb
>	joke 50e+6 times in a row.  
>
>	In fact, as I've posted before, this group dissappoints me.
>	I'm going to stop whining now, and bugger off permanently.
>	I won't even try to start a new thread, as it will just get
>	lost in a an 'aka' sea, or a flurry of meaningless dribble
>	cascades.
> 
> 
>	For all those truly faithfull MPFC fans, cheers, and keep
>	laughing, they're tops!
> 
>	Later folks,
>	Craig

Well, *you* disappoint *me*, Craig. I thought everyone had at least *some*
sense of humor. For someone who claims to like MP you sure were a dry person.

As for the "aka"-ing all over the place...I think it was pretty creative and
has become a backbone of this group..well maybe an arm or leg...or maybe a toe.
If you would bother to look, you would find that all of us here are die-hard
Python fans. But you were too quick to judge it seems. Try a little creativity,
a little originality. Pure discussion is a trite boring. And what better
newsgroup to toss in a bit of lunacy and silliness that one of the masters
themselves?

Ratboy aka just for you, Craig.
From: tvenbr@getrz.gez.ch (Norbert Brosch)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Wanted: Vector graphic processing package
Date: 1 Sep 92 11:41:48 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Grapha Electronic AG, Zofingen

Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 09:33:19 GMT
Message-Id: <1992Sep1.093319.5366@getrz.gez.ch>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x

I need to display graphical objects (vector orientated simple pictures)
under OSF/Motif. Can anyone recommend a product (public domain or commercial)?

				w8ing 4 ur reply

				Norbert
From: yandros@Athena.MIT.EDU (Chad Phillip Brown)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Re: GUIs Considered Harmful
Date: 2 Sep 92 03:59:44 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: /mit/yandros/.organizations

Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 00:49:41 GMT
Message-Id: <YANDROS.92Sep1204936@fredric-brown.MIT.EDU>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.computers,comp.windows.misc,comp.windows.news,comp.windows.x,comp.human-factors


    From: Me :-)
>>  (Does anyone know why there isn't a
>>  magic key sequence to get to the menubar, for instance?)

  From: neeri@iis.ethz.ch (Matthias Neeracher)
> There is one. It is not very difficult to write an extension for the
> Mac to do this; I wrote one myself a few years ago. If you have normal
> command of your hands, however, you will be hopelessly slower that by
> using the mouse.
> 
> There are also extensions to assign menu selections and mouse clicks
> to any desired key combination (QuicKeys, for example).

Yes, I understand that these kinds of things exist as extensions, but
I'm baffled as to why they need to be added on later, when it would be
such a simple thing to have built into the design of the original
system.  Having umpteen-jillion extensions makes 'Standard User
Interface' pretty difficult...  As for me being 'hopelessly slower'
than the mouse, I don't understand how you could really think it's
slower to move my hand from the keyboard to the mouse and then back
again as opposed to staying on the keyboard???

  From: neeri@iis.ethz.ch (Matthias Neeracher)
> The medium and high level user usually knows how to extend the user interface
> to his/her liking. I don't wnat to offend anybody, but I think most of the
> complaints about the fixed nature of the Mac UI are made by people who are
> power users of other machines, but casual users of the Mac.

I understand (and agree) with this, but, again:

  From: Me again. :-)
> I guess my
> main complaint is that Apple sems to have sacrificed the
> medium-to-high level user in favor of the the 'casual user', without
> (IMHO) real justification.

Saying 'The experienced user will usually know what the problem is'
will win you the hearts of many fans of U*NIX 'ed', but not many
others. :-)  My point is that the macintosh abandons the 'power user'
to a maze of extensions that make the Macintosh as nonstandardized and
setup-dependant as any U*NIX box, for no reason I can find.


--
-->Chad Phillip Brown<--||INTERNET:---->yandros@Athena.MIT.EDU
------------------------||NeXT:---------->yandros@milo.mit.edu
-->Student Information<-||UUCP:-->mit-eddie!mit-athena!yandros		
--->Processing Board<---||BITNET:------>yandros%mit.edu@mitvma
----->CSSConsultant<----||US:--->19 Myrtle;Somerville MA;02143
-------->IS-DCNS<-------||Voice:----------------->617-623-0877
From: klaus@lvd1.bme.ohio-state.edu (Klaus Mueller)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Xwst3d window server runs out of memory
Date: 31 Aug 92 19:59:11 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Biomedical Engineering OSU

Date: 31 Aug 92 13:48:38 GMT
Message-Id: <1992Aug31.134838.13745@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x


I have a question concerning DEC's Xwst3d server that is used on the
DECStation 5200-240 (3D, 24bit color,
40MB RAM, 132MB swap space). However, I use it in Pseudo color mode,
since the majority of my programs use
colormaps (just got this machine, we have a bunch of 8bit color DECs).

Therefore when starting up the Xwst3d window server in the ttys file at
boot time I use
                      /usr/bin/Xwst3d bc -class PseudoColor

The problem in this configuration is that programs that work fine on any
regular Xws display fail with an X window error BadAlloc on the Xwst3d
when it is tried to load larger sized images (> 1k x 1k) into pixmaps.
The server apparently runs out of resources (data memory?). Smaller
images work fine.

This is (yet) a mystery to me. Is there anything I might have configured
wrong setting up the server, or is there something else that has to be set.  ?

If there is anyone out there who knows what's going on I would be
appreciate his/her comments.
From: gary@vitellocmc.ca (Gary Braida)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: SUMMARY:  Converting Sun 3/60 to X terminal
Date: 3 Sep 92 22:40:02 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Canadian Microelectronics Corporation

Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 15:06:20 GMT
Message-Id: <1992Sep3.150620.9330@venus.ic.cmc.ca>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x

Thanks to all who resonded to my posting a fews weeks ago regarding
converting Sun 3/60's to X terminals.  The method of choice seems to
be a configuration using Xkernel.  Xkernel is readily available from
a number of ftp sites.  I scooped the 4LAZY.sun3.tar.Z version of
Xkernel from sol.ctr.columbia.edu.  I haven't tried it out yet and don't
plan on experimenting with it for a few months but the Xkernel users who
responded to my posting seemed pleased with their configurations.

Again, thanks to those who replied.

Regards   

-- 

Gary Braida             |     Canadian       |       ******  *******  ******
email:  braida@cmc.ca   |  Microelectronics  |      *       *  *  *  *
phone:  (613) 545-2914  |    Corporation     |     ******  *     *  ******
From: jim@tiamat.fsc.com (IT Manager)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Re: Logging out from X-Terminals
Date: 21 Aug 92 19:16:17 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Ahlstrom Filtration - Chattanooga,TN

Date: 20 Aug 92 15:12:00 GMT
Message-Id: <3768@tiamat.fsc.com>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp,comp.windows.x,comp.sys.apollo

In article <Bsu9Ao.3Jt@waterloo.hp.com>, hart@waterloo.hp.com (Tony Hart) writes:
> 
> The version of HP VUE which is included with HP-UX is for a SINGLE workstation
> user. Additional users (e.g. X terminals) need a per-seat license. A free 
> license certificate is shipped with each HP 700/RX X terminal; users of VUE
> on non-HP terminals (e.g. NCD, Tektronix) are legally obligated to purchase
> a right-to-use license.

What about HP VUE on 8XX machines?  The majority of 8XX machines have no
graphics hardware, so restricting its use to the 'local' display doesn't
make much sense.

On 8XX machines, you recieve a license for N users, which corresponds roughly
to the number of users who can display character based I/O on a terminal
at any one time.  Is the VUE licensing different in this case?  Or, since
Xterminals are the only way to due graphics off an 8XX, does the 8XX VUE
have the same capcbilites (or restrictions, as the case may be)?



------------- 
James B. O'Connor                                     jim@tiamat.fsc.com
Information Technology Manager                        voice 615/821-4022 x651
Ahlstrom Filtration, Inc.                             fax   615/821-0616
From: c4craig@teal.csn.org (Craig Anderson)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Wcl Xaw boxWidgetClass question
Date: 21 Aug 92 19:47:45 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc.

Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 18:38:29 GMT
Message-Id: <BtAp48.7I8@csn.org>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x


Can an Athena Box Widget tile its children horizonally?
I tried to set the Orientation resource to do this.
Here is my attempt at it.

!
Wcl02.wcChildren: wcl02Box

*wcl02Box.wcCreate: boxWidgetClass
*wcl02Box.Orientation: XtorientHorizontal

*wcl02Box.wcChildren: wcl02BoxBut1 wcl02BoxBut2 wcl02BoxBut3

*wcl02BoxBut1.wcCreate: commandWidgetClass
*wcl02BoxBut1.Label: Print tree
*wcl02BoxBut1.callback: WcPrintTree( this )

*wcl02BoxBut2.wcCreate: commandWidgetClass
*wcl02BoxBut2.Label: Trace test
*wcl02BoxBut2.callback: WcTrace( Print a trace )

*wcl02BoxBut3.wcCreate: commandWidgetClass
*wcl02BoxBut3.Label: Click and Exit
*wcl02BoxBut3.callback: WcExit()
!

Craig H. Anderson
c4craig@csn.org
From: kemnitz@netcom.com (Greg Kemnitz)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Pixmap format? Re: XPM Question
Date: 23 Aug 92 21:42:07 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

Date: Sun, 23 Aug 92 19:52:22 GMT
Message-Id: <f2-nr9.kemnitz@netcom.com>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x

In article <27455@sophia.inria.fr> lehors@koala.inria.fr (Arnaud Le Hors) writes:
=
=The only documentation of XPM resides as a TeX file called xpm.tex which is
=part of the Xpm distribution (tar file) and its postscript version called
=xpm.ps both available on export.

The only minor complain of xpm is the lousy obscure font on xpm.ps which
hardly be read on a pre-viewer, especially for users who do not have
postcript printer and do not know about Tex.
Otherwise, Xpm is really a great program or library.

=
=-- 
= Arnaud LE HORS - lehors@sophia.inria.fr - BULL Research France, Koala Project


For a large image file, I would like to read/write in a binary form.
I try to figure out Pixmap format or something I can fwrite to
a file and fread in from a file.

I can not find the Pixmap definition in anywhere.
Is it a strucutre or a Char * or what?
From: mla@enea.se (Mats L|fstr|m)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Getting foreground/background colors of a window.
Date: 2 Sep 92 19:05:13 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Enea Data AB, Sweden

Date: 2 Sep 92 13:27:46 GMT
Message-Id: <1992Sep2.132746.26532@enea.se>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x


This must be an RTFM, but I can't find the answer anywhere, so here
goes:

For reasons of my own, I want to know the foreground and background
colors used in a window. But the window isn't created by my
application, but rather by any other application. Is there any way of
getting this information?

	mla
From: wongm@latcs1.lat.oz.au (Mun Chung Wong)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Displaying different font characters in window title
Date: 30 Aug 92 10:07:03 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Comp Sci, La Trobe Uni, Australia

Date: 30 Aug 92 07:21:07 GMT
Message-Id: <1992Aug30.072107.26172@latcs1.lat.oz.au>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x,comp.windows.x.motif,comp.windows.open-look,comp.windows.misc


Hi,
  I wonder if any one has tried displaying characters of different fonts sets in the window
  title in X ?

  More specifically, I would like to display some Chinese characters of fonts HKU-Ch16 along
  with lucidasans-bolditalic-14 in my Xterm and other title. How can I do that. I tried
  only displaying Chinese chars in Xterm title, but I can't get it.

  Please email any replies to wongm@latcs1.lat.oz.au as I seldom read these newsgroups!

  Thanks in advance !!


  - wongm@latcs1.lat.oz.au
From: holland@weber.nosubdomain.nodomain (Holland)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Use of XtAppAddInput
Date: 29 Aug 92 12:59:23 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Martin Marietta Astronautics, Denver

Date: 28 Aug 92 22:18:02 GMT
Message-Id: <1992Aug28.221802.9689@den.mmc.com>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x

Have a question concerning the use of XtAppAddInput with X11R4 -Motif using C++.
The problem is with the Condition (3rd) variable which defines the read/write/
or exception condition mask. The Xt book defines condition to be of type 
XtPointer, however XtInputReadMask and XtInputWriteMask are longs in 
Intrinsics.h. If I pass XtAppAddInput XtInputReadMask as the condition variable
the compilier complains that an XtPointer is expected. I tried loading the
XtInputReadMask into a locally declared XtPointer variable. This will compile
but when run XtAppAddInput complains that an invalid condition was passed in.

Passing XtInputReadMask directly into the call is the way the examples are done`
in the O'Reilly book and Young's book. Any ideas?

Thanks :-))

Rick Holland MMC
holland@glass.den.mmc.com
From: adrian@ora.com (adrian)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Re: O'Reilly X books
Date: 25 Aug 92 23:17:24 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Workstation Div., Supermicro Systems Group, Sony Corporation

Date: Tue, 25 Aug 92 14:09:52-060
Message-Id: <9208252009.AA00312@spike.ora.com>


> I have the first printing of the 7 volume set "The Definitive Guides
> to the X Window System", copyright 1990.
> 
> I was wondering if there is a more recent printing than this?

The other posting on this subject (from a fellow in Sweden) was the
status as of March - here's the latest:

There are new R5 editions available of Volumes 0, 1, 2, 4, and 5
in the O'Reilly X Programming series.  The update of Vol 6 for Motif 
1.2 will be done in about 4 months.  Since last October we have
had available the "R5 Update: Programmer's Supplement for Release 5" 
which provides complete tutorial and reference information for all new 
R5 features except PEX.

As usual, anyone can update any volume at a 25% discount by sending
in the titlepage from their current edition.

Volume 5 was completely rewritten for R5.  Volume 2 has over 100
new manpages and was thoroughly checked against the R5 spec for
accuracy.  The other books had less substantial changes (mostly material
moved from the R5 update book).  If you have the R5 update book and a 
recent edition of Vol 1 and 4, you probably don't need a new Volume 1 
or Volume 4.

*************************************************************
Adrian Nye (314) 531-1231
O'Reilly & Associates, Inc., Publishers of Nutshell Handbooks
4466 West Pine Blvd.  20-G   St. Louis MO 63108
Internet:   adrian@ora.com    	UUCP:   uunet!ora!adrian      
*************************************************************
From: kwj@iastate.edu (kwj)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Noseguy
Date: 31 Aug 92 16:51:53 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA

Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 14:49:36 GMT
Message-Id: <1992Aug31.144936.18413@news.iastate.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x

Last week, I found a cute little program written in C for X-windows
called Noseguy.  Essentially, Noseguy is a sprite, composed of a nose,
army boots and a hat, that walks around the screen espousing words of 
wisdom.  

I would like to convert Noseguy from C into BASIC for the PC.  However, Noseguy
is built around bitmaps with hexadecimal arrays {0x00,0xff, ..., 0x00}.
I have figured out that each hexadecimal number, when converted to binary
form, represents on/off characteristics of 8 pixels, but I do not know
how to put the series of pixels together.  (Noseguy is comprised of 64 x 64
pixels; the hexadecimal array is comprised of 512 numbers).

Any suggestions on how to interpret and decipher X-windows bitmaps would 
be greatly appreciated.  

-- kwj