HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: henry@ads.com (Henry Mensch)
Subject: Re: stupid consumers
Reply-To: henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch)
Organization: Advanced Decision Systems, a div of Booz, Allen & Hamilton
Distribution: ba
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 21:33:59 GMT


king@glacier.Stanford.EDU (Robin the Clueless) writes:
|> 	Perhaps you're not such an expert on safety if you didn't 
|> 	know about the report.  I saw it too and I only fly once
|> 	in a while.  :^) It was about 5-6 pages long and had the
|> 	stats broken down by per person, per flight, etc.
|>
|> 	You're going to look pretty stupid when someone shoves the 
|> 	damn thing under your nose after you've called them a liar 
|> 	so here's a suggestion: find it yourself first and do some 
|> 	fancy back-pedalling.

you shouldn't be so concerned about how i look.  instead, you should be
concerned with making truthful points and backing them up with facts that
stand up to the light of day.

the article in question doesn't need to be shoved "under my nose" since i
already know it; it was published in an issue of conde nast traveller
magazine earlier this year.  the article does, indeed, publish a number of
statistics presented in attractive charts.  the text of the article (yeah, i
know, you only read it for the pretty pictures) states that the figures on
which the charts are based were reported directly by the airlines in many
cases (consider that airlines have lots to lose by reporting poor safety
numbers); cn traveller was also able to cite instances where the figures
reported by specific airlines were blatantly false.  

in short: unless there were very dramatic differences between the figures
shown between two airlines, you shouldn't take the cn traveller survey for
much value.  

|> >obviously not the only thing you know nothing about.
|> 
|> 	The pot calling the kettle black.

this pot calls the kettle a moron.

-- 
# henry mensch / booz, allen & hamilton, inc.  / <henry@ads.com>
# "fight the real enemy."  -- sinead o'connor, and many others.
Newsgroups: ba.general,misc.kids,misc.legal
From: brunner@telebit.com (Eric Brunner)
Subject: Re: East Bay Regional Parks/dog restrictions
Organization: Telebit Corporation; Sunnyvale, CA, USA
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 00:27:28 GMT

In article <1992Oct9.205936.16423@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> whs70@dancer.uucp (22501-sohl) writes:
>In article <1992Oct9.190351.29481@telebit.com> brunner@telebit.com (Eric Brunner) writes:

The pool retail association is an interesting possibility, but seems unlikely,
since the liability attaches to the party failing to fence the pool, not the
vendor, so I don't see a sufficient cause for this hypothetical assn to hire
scores of expensive lobbists. As for the more general products liability note,
you are not alone in having such feelings, but product liability isn't the
same doctrine as the A.N. doctrine, so while it may feel similar, feelings
may be deceptive.

>Society won't be happy until every room has padded walls, every
>car has a speed limiter on it, Grand Canyon has a fence all around it
>and every accident begets the injured party a fat check.
>Regardless of the individual stupidity of the user/trespasser/etc.

Do you really mean this? Seems a bit pessemistic to me.

Oh well...
-- 
Eric Brunner Tule Network Services
uucp: uunet!practic!brunner
trying to understand multiprocessing is like having bees live inside your head.

Xref: sparky ba.general:4366 misc.kids:25710 misc.legal:18427
From: whs70@dancer.uucp (22501-sohl)
Newsgroups: ba.general,misc.kids,misc.legal
Subject: Re: East Bay Regional Parks/dog restrictions
Date: 9 Oct 92 20:59:36 GMT
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ

In article <1992Oct9.190351.29481@telebit.com> brunner@telebit.com (Eric Brunner) writes:
>Um, are you suggesting that state's legislatures, usually comprised of
>persons with some legal education, are going to set aside the A.N.
>doctrine? Can you suggest an interested party like the Assn of A.N.
>Providors :-) ? Remember this is in misc.kids, not alt.poly-cant, so
>don't spend to much time on the possible-but-hardly-likely.

How about the Association of pool retailers (or some such group)
pushing for legislation that prohibits negligence suits against a pool
owner that has a fence of at least "n" height with a locked gate.
Also, the insurance lobby works towards getting legislation to
hopefully alleviate their insured clients of responsibility when clearly
the fault should be totally assessed against the injured party.

Likewise, the manufacturer retailer of other equipment devices, etc. are
getting real fed up (as I am) reading about or being sued themselves 
because some idiot (no other word is appropriate) totally ignors the
obvious safety warnings and misuses a tool, etc.

Society won't be happy until every room has padded walls, every
car has a speed limiter on it, Grand Canyon has a fence all around it
and every accident begets the injured party a fat check.
Regardless of the individual stupidity of the user/trespasser/etc.

One thing I always find interesting is that the government usually
does a great job of prohibiting negligence suits against itself 
except in very obvious circumstances.  E.g.  You can't sue and
win in most cases for pothole damage unless you can show the pothole
had been made known to the governmental agency reponsible for its repair.

Standard Disclaimer- Any opinions, etc. are mine and NOT my employer's.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Note - If email replying to me with an automatic addressing process
bounces, manually address the resend using one of the addresses below.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Sohl (K2UNK) BELLCORE (Bell Communications Research, Inc.)
Morristown, NJ             email via UUCP      bcr!dancer!whs70
201-829-2879 Weekdays      email via Internet  whs70@dancer.cc.bellcore.com
Xref: sparky ba.general:4441 misc.legal:18606 misc.kids:25957
From: rah@public.BTR.COM (Richard A Hyde  rah@btr.com)
Newsgroups: ba.general,misc.legal,misc.kids
Subject: Re: Attractive Nuisance (was: East Bay Regional Parks/dog restrictions)
Date: 13 Oct 92 17:47:12 GMT
Followup-To: ba.general
Organization: BTR Public Access UNIX, MtnView CA. For info contact: info@BTR.COM

In article <1992Oct13.051159.8254@adobe.com> pngai@adobe.com (Phil Ngai) writes:
|In article <8122@public.BTR.COM> rah@public.BTR.COM (Richard A Hyde  rah@btr.com) writes:
|
|>   I read of a lawsuit in the paper last week (I know, I know)
|>where a city? was sucessfully sued for 12 million(?) dollars because
|>the playground had an asphalt surface, a child fell and was severely
|>hurt.  Where do we draw the line?
|
|I'd like to know what a playground has to do with attractive nuisances.
|

It's a very attractive place.  Children are even encouraged to play there.
Apparantly, if it has an asphalt surface, it's also a nuisance.  

I'm willing to bet I'm confusing points of law here  :-)



-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|   Richard Hyde  |  RaH@btr.com  |    This space intentionally left blank   |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: ba.general
From: shannah@netcom.com (Teri Miller)
Subject: Re: First auto insurance of my life and i am getting screwed. (help!!)
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 18:04:11 GMT

In article <1992Oct9.093354.6436@netcom.com> oleg@netcom.com (Oleg Kiselev) writes:
>In article <1b2hcuINN3g7@gorn.hal.com> savel@hal.COM (Bharat Baliga-Savel) writes:
>>don't know why, but i think $1700 per year for a 2 yr. old car is a bit too
>
>The shorter the driving record, the higher the rates.  If you do not have a
>liability coverage *now*, the rates are higher yet.
>
>>called AAA.
>
>Their insurance rates are higher than average.
>
It depends.  If you've been with AAA for a while, like I have (over 10
years, actually) their rates can be really good.  My husband's rates
were cut in half when he was added to my policy.  I've gotten quotes from
lots of other insurance carriers, and they have always been higher.

However, all that aside, Oleg's advice is good.  Call around and see
what different insurers will charge.  Also suggest special discounts.
I get discounts for various things, including "good driver" and "high
mount stoplamp".  You might also find that you can get a much better
rate by being willing to take a high deductible.  If, for example,
taking a $1000 deductible means that your insurance is $700 less per
year, if you go even 2 years without a claim, you're money ahead.  If
you go longer without a claim, you're *lots* of money ahead.  I have
$1000 deductible on my Mazda, and it's saved me over $3500.
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Newsgroups: ba.general
Subject: Re: Air Show
Date: 8 Oct 92 17:30:49 GMT
Distribution: ba
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA

In article <Apgar-071092202556@17.32.26.95> Apgar@Apple.com (Gar) writes:
>The program for the Travis Air Show (last sat) lists the Blue Angels
>schedule and says they will be in SF 10/10/92...
>Anyone know anything about this?

Fleet Week.  Only been on the news.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Acting Associate Editor, Software and Publication Reviews
  Scientific Programming
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Seeking Books to buy:	Bongard, Pattern Recognition
			Imhof, Cartographic Relief Presentation
			Books on or by Benjamin Whorf
From: lstowell@pyrnova.mis.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Newsgroups: ba.general
Subject: Re: stupid consumers [and uninformed posters]
Date: 8 Oct 92 23:40:30 GMT
Reply-To: lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Distribution: ba
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corp., Mountain View, CA

In article <1992Oct8.190951.25530@leland.Stanford.EDU> eap@leland.Stanford.EDU (Eric Perozziello) writes:
>
>FYI, there are NO US manufacturers of televisions. HEnce, they MOSTLY
>come from Japan. Hence, the dollar is buying the "domestic" ones from
>there too. It all depends on when you buy.  The ones you buy here were
>purchaced months (or longer) ago.
>
   This must be a big shock to Sony, who builds the things near San
   Diego.  

   Oh, you meant US OWNED companies?   Nah, we gave the technology
   away along with the VCR, recording industry, memory, etc. etc.

   I don't blame the Japanese though, I blame certain American
   companies who consider "strategic planning" to be choosing a
   lunch menu.  We won't mention the Gov'ts lack of vision....

>(I'm ignoring your insult. ) 

   Why?   



Newsgroups: ba.general
From: eap@everest.Stanford.EDU (Eric Perozziello)
Subject: US workers more productive.
Originator: eap@everest.Stanford.EDU
Organization: Center for Integrated Systems, Stanford University, California
Distribution: ba
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 92 21:36:03 GMT


BALTIMORE (AP) - U.S. workers are more productive than their German or
Japanese counterparts, largely because of America's highly competitive
and open trade environment, the authors of a new study said yesterday.

U.S. workers are 11 percent more productive than West German workers
and 23 percent more productive than Japanese workers, said William
Lewis, director of the McKinsey Global Institute, which sponsored the
study of five big industrial nations.

East Germany was not included in the figures because data was collected
before the reunification of Germany in October 1990.

Free Trade may be the motivation. "There's more competition for U.S.
companies," said Martin Baily, an Economics professor at the University
of Maryland and coauthor of the study. "Managers are forced to raise 
productivity in order to survive and be profitable."

Newsgroups: ba.general
From: eap@leland.Stanford.EDU (Eric Perozziello)
Subject: Re: stupid consumers
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 92 19:05:15 GMT

In article <1992Oct7.010531.18091@odin.corp.sgi.com> pal@wpd.sgi.com writes:
>In article <1992Oct6.220119.25165@leland.Stanford.EDU>, eap@leland.Stanford.EDU (Eric Perozziello) writes:
>|> In article <1992Oct6.010459.13524@odin.corp.sgi.com> pal@wpd.sgi.com writes:
>|> >
>|> >You still haven't answered the point that I and others raised here,
>|> >namely that the price rise in DRAMs was *not* due to monopolistic
>|> >gouging by Japanese chipmakers, but rather the result of US government
>|> >policies.
>|> 
>|> I certainly have, as this argument has gone full-circle.
>|> They (collectively, in an organized manner) lowered the price
>|> far below fair-market value, AND below thier cost to produce.
>|> The US gov't is stupid for not acting, and the Japan Gov't 
>[...]
>|> US gov't policies COULD prevent it, but they didn't
>|> (directly) cause it.
>
>You *still* haven't explained where and how DRAM prices rose, which was
>your original claim.  Nobody disputes that DRAM prices fell.  You claim
>this is/was a bad thing because the prices subsequently rose
>drastically (after the good old US makers were driven out of the market
>and the evil Japanese were free to gouge).
>
>Yes, prices rose, but BECAUSE THE US GOVERNMENT FORCED THE JAPANESE
>MANUFACTURERS TO RAISE THEM.  Once the US government backed off, prices
>fell again.
>

Oh come on.  I know our Gov't is slow to respond, but I find it hard to 
beleive that they FORCED the JAPANESE to raise prices less than 1 week after 
the LAST US fab stopped production.  

How, might I ask, did the US gov't FORCE the japanese to raise prices?
And HOW did they go to 4X what they were before?
From: jeffs@almaden.ibm.com (Jeff Schneiter)
Newsgroups: ba.general
Subject: Need a restaurant for Turkey day
Date: 15 Oct 92 20:10:41 GMT
Reply-To: jeffs@almaden.ibm.com (Jeff Schneiter)
Organization: IBM Almaden Research Center

My parents will be down here for Thanksgiving day, and we are looking for
a restaurant that is a little unique. Something in the South Bay area,
even along the coast would be great. 

I don't know what other group to ask, if anyone could lead me to one, I
would be appreciative.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|   Jeff Schneiter   |   jeffs@almaden.ibm.com    |   (408) 927 - 1498     |
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|   "I just can't wait till this campaign is over so I can say:            |
|    'Bob, open the garage door and get out the Maserati! Open up          |
|    the safe and get out the jewels!'"                                    |
|                                       Georgette Mosbacher,               |
|        wife of Robert Mosbacher, George Bush's campaign chairman         |
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: bhilden@bigriver.Eng.Sun.COM (Bruce Hildenbrand)
Newsgroups: ba.general
Subject: Used Macintosh LC Wanted
Date: 12 Oct 92 19:38:51 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: bigriver-248

I have a friend who is looking to buy a used Macintosh LC computer
with 6MB RAM, a monochrome monitor and a 40-80mb(or bigger) hard
disk.

If you know of such an item, please call:

Jean-Anne Galt
(408)-865-1136

Thanks,

Bruce Hildenbrand
Newsgroups: ba.general,misc.kids,misc.legal
From: mzimmers@netcom.com (Michael Zimmers)
Subject: Re: Attractive Nuisances (Was: Re: East Bay Regional Parks/dog restrictions)
Followup-To: ba.general
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 12:28:18 GMT

In article <1992Oct7.055042.29675@telebit.com> brunner@telebit.com (Eric Brunner) writes:

>While you are at it, toss in the rest of your linen, you've been posting
>to misc.kids what can only be charitably described as political cant.
>You get 10 points for proving Phil is an abject failure to pass the
>litmus test for being a good <insert sect-based-upon-exclusion-here>,
>and lose 1 point, or your first born, which ever you value least, for
>playing one-ups-person-ship in misc.kids. You do know how to use a news
>reader don't you?

Hey Eric, don't be such a jerk.  The only reason I was posting to misc.kids
was that was one of the originating groups.  I don't know what the
charter for misc.kids is, but if the pertinence of this subject to
those with children is lost on you, tough.  It still might be of
interest to others with more open minds.

Note follow-up; maybe this will prevent further tantrums from Eric.
-- 
Michael Zimmers                                    |  Home:  408 996 1984
SoftHelp                                           |  Work:  408 996 1965
Software Solutions for Open Systems                |  Data:  408 996 1974
Newsgroups: ba.general
From: eap@leland.Stanford.EDU (Eric Perozziello)
Subject: Re: Attractive Nuisance 
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 92 19:48:14 GMT

>
>Again, no.  The neighbor is expected to do whatever is required to protect
>any and all children (and others) from unreasonable hazzards, whether the
>parent exercises adequate supervison or not.  
>

C'mon.  Parents can be stupid, and that's ok, but *property owners* are
the responsible ones???????  Bull! This attitude makes me sick. Parents
let the kids run the neighborhood and expect everyone ELSE to watch them.
Aaaarrrggggg!

>
>Property owners are always responsible for their property.  Someone else's
>negligence does not remove your responsibility.

Negligence is not a good thing!
From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: ba.general
Subject: Re: stupid consumers
Date: 13 Oct 92 19:12:19 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <1992Oct9.200036.23003@leland.Stanford.EDU>, eap@leland.Stanford.EDU (Eric Perozziello) writes:
> >
> >|> cite a reference that i can check.  an ISBN or a title/author
> >|> combination will do fine.
> 
> Ever hear of a Card-Catalog?  Or don't they teach that in grammer 
> school anymore?  Maybe you were absent that day     :^)

Many libraries have stopped upating their card catalogs -- you
better get used to on-line search.

I'm not upset about the development of new techologies, quite
the opposite -- but I fear for the kids who only get taught how
to find something with keyword search, and end up in a small
town library looking for something.  It's much like the generation
of kids growing up who can't tell time on an analog clock.

-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
Lesson learned from Gov. Wilson's signing of AB 2601: if you don't get 
your way, have a riot.  Next time, Gov. Wilson will cower appropriately.
From: gstory@netcom.com (Glenn Story)
Newsgroups: ba.general
Subject: Re: stupid consumers
Date: 16 Oct 92 18:59:54 GMT
Distribution: ba
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <1992Oct14.231950.28580@oracle.us.oracle.com> glo@dvlseq.us.oracle.com (George Lo) writes:
...
>
>From what I have heard since I was born, I couldn't recall any major
>accident with JAL, SIA or Cathay.  But I do remember quite a number
>of UA PanAm accidents.
>

Personal recollection is not a very good indicator.

I lived in Japan from 1983-1985.  JAL had so many crashes and other problems
that the head of JAL had to make a personal appology to the Prime Minister.

The worst was a plane (from Tokyo to Osaka, if memory serves) that crashed
into a remote mountain during the height of the vacation season, killing 
all or almost all on board.  The plane was in trouble for so long before it
finally crashed, that several passengers had time to write farewell letters
to their families before they died.  I don't know if it even made the papers
in the U.S.  Many of those that survived the crash died on the ground because
the area was so remote and rescue workers were slow in arriving.





-- 
Glenn Story                             
story_glenn@tandem.com                   gstory@netcom.com
glenn_a_story@cup.portal.com             70135.756@compuserve.com
---
"I *never* do anything I don't want to do.  Nor does anyone, but in my case I
am always aware of it."  -- Robert Heinlein
Xref: sparky ba.general:4493 misc.kids:26161 misc.legal:18742
From: mysti@sybase.com (Mysti)
Newsgroups: ba.general,misc.kids,misc.legal
Subject: Re: East Bay Regional Parks/dog restrictions
Date: 15 Oct 92 01:06:31 GMT
Organization: Sybase, Inc.

In article <1992Oct9.192254.20902@netcom.com> mzimmers@netcom.com (Michael Zimmers) writes:
>In article <1992Oct9.175441.28452@telebit.com> brunner@telebit.com (Eric Brunner) writes:
>
>>In article <1992Oct9.002209.6446@leland.Stanford.EDU> eap@leland.Stanford.EDU (Eric Perozziello) writes:
>
>>>Very Simple: Don't let your kid roam, and play in areas that you
>>>don't know about. If they wanna explore, go with 'em!
>
>>You were right Phil, this person can't be helped. Len, pop over to Stanford
>>and shoot this non-parent on your luch hour.
>
>Eric, you are truly about the most close-minded, smug, self-righteous
>and unpleasant cretin I've yet encountered on the net. 

let me translate this for you.  "Eric's statement is so obviously beyond
the pale of reason that I'm going to say something in metaphor to illustrate
how I feel about the absurdness of his statement."

No need to tell people to shut up. My grandma always hated that...

Mysti

--
Friends don't let friends vote Republican
From: pal@xanadu.wpd.sgi.com (Anil Pal)
Newsgroups: ba.general
Subject: Re: stupid consumers
Date: 8 Oct 92 19:53:06 GMT
Reply-To: pal@wpd.sgi.com
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.

In article <1992Oct8.190515.24576@leland.Stanford.EDU>, eap@leland.Stanford.EDU (Eric Perozziello) writes:
|> 
|> How, might I ask, did the US gov't FORCE the japanese to raise prices?
|> And HOW did they go to 4X what they were before?

I would have thought that someone as interested as you in trade issues
would have studied the various US-Japan semiconductor trade agreements
in detail.

I don't recall offhand what the exact agreement was, but it some
combination of tariffs and "voluntary" agreements was used to dictate a
minimum price for Japanese DRAMs in the US for a certain period of
time, as well as to establish a target quota of 20% of the Japanese
market for US-manufactured semiconductors.

-- 
Anil A. Pal
pal@sgi.com	(415)-390-5279
Newsgroups: ba.general
From: lefty@apple.com (Lefty)
Subject: Re: stupid consumers
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 21:53:24 GMT
Organization: Our Lady of Heavy Artillery

In article <1992Oct9.201759.27518@leland.Stanford.EDU>,
eap@leland.Stanford.EDU (Eric Perozziello) wrote:
> 
> I made my claim.  If you don't beleive it, go do some research
> on your own. PROVE ME WRONG.  Learn to use a card catalog. 

Say, Eric, I could use some help.  Where, exactly, do I look in the card
catalog to find "some travel magazine that some halfwit from Stanford
claims he saw in the waiting room of some travel agency eight months ago"?

--
Lefty (lefty@apple.com)
C:.M:.C:., D:.O:.D:.
Newsgroups: ba.general