HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: krikket@meltdown.chi.il.us (D. 'krikket' Krick)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Magic/magick/midget/maggot???
Date: 29 Aug 92 09:06:47 GMT
Organization: The Meltdown - A Team Star BBS

In article <guest.74@dhhalden.no>, guest@dhhalden.no (.GJEST) writes:

>No, it doesn't.
>I still don't see the point in having alt.magic and alt.magick
>               ---GH---

In simpler terms...  alt.magic is used to discuss stage magic.  alt.magick is
used to the practice of the real thing...

Krikket               ! krikket@meltdown.chi.il.us ! USnail:3 Danada Square E.
a.k.a Doug Krick      ! Team Star Charter Member   !        Suite 246
Data ph# 708/665-9732 ! #include<std.disclaimers>  !        Wheaton, Il 60187
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Just another commentary on the sad state of affairs on our nation today.
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: rtsumn01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Subject: Empathic question
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 03:15:06 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville

If two people--probably lovers--were to develop a loose, informal empathic
link (assuming this is possible), and then get into a serious arguement, would
one of the two--the more trained one--be able to attack the other psychically,
unaware of it, and cause serious, if temporary, damage?

Let's say this happens, and the injured party raises a complaint. The attacker
then tries to withdraw--would it be possible for the attack to continue because
of unconscious resentment or whatever, even though this person has some
practice in conscious control of the mind (I guess it would not be enough to
overcome the anger in this instance)?

--Semhaza
From: rtsumn01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Shielding <was: Re: Empathic question>
Date: 4 Sep 92 04:27:11 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville

In article <BtzLK0.LGw@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe) writes:
> 
> Eddie posted three very nice visualisations for shielding.  I will give them to
> students of mine, but I will never use them myself.  Why?  Because I am
> Tactile/Kinesthetic rather than visual.

Intriguing...I'm heavily kinesthetic myself, though I can muddle through with
visualization. I am noticing a pattern here. Wonder if kinesthetic people are
more likely to drift into alt.magick?

--Semhaza
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: mesm@netcom.com (Mary E. S. Morris)
Subject: Re: Empathic question
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 92 16:40:13 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

Shields were mentioned for protecting empaths during problems.
Could someone summarize how to, or where to find info on this process?

--
Mary E. S. Morris    |  The future exists first in imagination, then
mesm@netcom.COM      |  in will, then in reality. -- Galivan Burwell
=====================================================================
Netcom - Online Communication Services San Jose, CA
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe)
Subject: Re: Shielding <was: Re: Empathic question>
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 01:18:16 GMT

shava@hermes.oit.unc.edu (Shava Nerad Averett) writes:

>In article <83950130@otter.hpl.hp.com> cal@otter.hpl.hp.com (Colin Low) writes:
>>That's a good point. I began to develop a real chip on my shoulder about
>>visualisation until I realised I had been routinely walking around "stroking"
>>things with my mind and "feeling" their texture. I don't have a third eye,
>>I have a third hand.

>Whereas I have a spacial, rather than kinetic, sense?  My sense of 

Dear Shava,
That spatial perception is part of the Kinesthetic end--it's the same way I get
things.  Colin is describing the Tactile end of Tactile/Kinesthetic.  The
Kinesthetic magical senses are, I think, the most loosely mapped to the physical
senses.  However, once you've felt things that way, you don't really need 
descriptions again--you *know* what you're working with.  Having read your post
on Healing about a dozen times, I am convinced that you and I perceive things
*very similarly*.  I suspect we would be able to do some amazing concert work.
If you ever get a chance to visit central Illinois, let me know.  *HUG*

>imagined objects has to do with force and space, rather like one might
>perceive a web of forces on a chess board, or the feelings of tension
>among individuals in a design meeting or over Thanksgiving dinner or
>in a courtroom.  It is heavily tied in to my emotional and healing
>senses.  It is not visual, but I usually describe it as such when I
>describe it to others -- people deal with the idea of a cloud of light
>rather than a field of [not necessarily readily characterizable] energy,
>much more readily.

Yeah, I do the same thing.  At least you and I *can* work in visual metaphors,
unlike my friend with the storms. 

>What other people perceive as light or heat or whathaveyou, I generally
>experience as fields of energy not necessarily even tied down or 
>reflecting 'physical reality.'  I have developed a translation table

I will insert some of your description into my essay on shielding.  I think
you make some aspects of it clearer.  (I am saving Eddie's and my posts as
my standard handout on shielding.  But I still need the auditory one.  Maybe
I should ask my friend with the thunderstorms--she's auditory.)


              Merry meet, merry part, merry meet again,
                               Br'anArthur

Queer, Peculiar, and Wyrd! :-)

******************************************************************************
Newage is hypoallergenic spirituality--
it's for people who are allergic to the word religion.
                                   --Jon Jay Obermark
From: amanda@INTERCON.COM (Amanda Walker)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: The Pentagram
Date: 1 Sep 92 03:16:42 GMT

rtsumn01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu writes:
> Does anyone know the origin of the pentagram and its evolution into
> modern-day usages?

Well, I'll make no claim of a complete history, since the pentagram is used 
in various contexts all over the world and throughout history.  It was called 
The Blazing Star by the Gnostics; it was called "the sign of the five wounds 
of Christ" by medieval christian mystics, and was used by them as a variation 
of the Seal of Solomon (a six-pointed star within a circle); and so on.  
However, its modern usages and connotations derive mainly from ceremonial 
magic practices of the last five hundred or so years.

For example, the occult writer Eliphas Levi, (translated by A. E. Waite in 
the book "Transcendental Magic: Its Doctrine And Ritual" [London, 1968] 
writes the following (among many other passages) concerning the pentagram:

	The Pentagram signifies the domination of the mind over the
	(four) elements; and the demons of air, the spirits of fire,
	the phantoms of water and ghosts of earth are enchained by
	this sign.  Equipped therewith, and suitably disposed, you may
	behold the infinite through the medium of that faculty which
	is like the soul's eye, and you will be ministered unto by
	legions of angels and hosts of fiends. [p. 63]

	The Pentagram, which in Gnostic schools is called The Blazing
	Star, is the sign of intellectual omnipotence and
	autocracy.

This sense of the Pentagram representing the dominance of the will is the way 
in which it is generally used in modern magick and paganism.  This is why, 
for example, it is used for banishing and invocation, which are nothing if 
not applications of the will.

The idea of the pentagram with point up being "good" and point down being 
"evil" is a relatively recent development; as far as I can tell, it was 
originated with Eliphas Levi and then popularized by Anton LaVey, to be then 
picked up by fundamentalist Christian "satan-hunters."  Levi is the first 
person I know of to draw the now-infamous "horned goat head" inside a point-
down pentagram.

In any case, since the middle ages it has generally been used in Europe and 
the U.S. as either signifying the individual will in its own right (the 
magickal/pagan interpretation), or the five wounds of Christ (the Christian 
interpretation).  In modern paganism in particular, it has come to simply be 
a sign of generic "paganism," perhaps from its use in Wicca (which use was in 
turn drawn from western ceremonial magic).

Hope this helps.


Peace,

Amanda Walker
-- 
"Haec est totius fortitudinis fortitudo fortis: quia vincet omnem rem
 subtilem omnemque solidam penetrabit."    --Tabula Smaragdina 9

Newsgroups: alt.magick,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.jewish
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Subject: Re: Crowley's Significance? (Hitler)
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: 29 Aug 92 22:00:56 GMT
Followup-To: alt.magick

Please don't discuss Crowley in soc.culture.jewish.  Followups to
alt.magick.
-- 
/|/-\/-\       The entire kitchen		Jerusalem
 |__/__/_/     is a very three-sided apple.
 |warren@      But the weeder
/ nysernet.org is hungry.
From: cal@otter.hpl.hp.com (Colin Low)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 13:18:41 GMT
Subject: Re: Shielding <was: Re: Empathic question>
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Bristol, UK.
Newsgroups: alt.magick

Semhaza writes:

>Intriguing...I'm heavily kinesthetic myself, though I can muddle through with
>visualization. I am noticing a pattern here. Wonder if kinesthetic people are
>more likely to drift into alt.magick?
>

Unlikely. I think you are seeing people with a chip on their shoulder
(i.e. me - I won't speak for Shava or BA ;-) speaking up because of the
fairly monolithic emphasis in magical literature on visual stuff. It is
extremely frustrating if like me you spend years trying to make progress
with complex visualisation exercises, and that pent-up frustration comes
out at times like this. 

There is an extremely wide, Gaussian-type spread in visualisation ability.
Somebody in the Society for Psychical Research did experiments on this
about 100 years ago, and if my cranky memory serves me well, about 10%
of individuals have almost no visualisation ability, and about 10% can
visualise with visual clarity. 

Something which intrigues me a great deal is that during OBE's I have
pin-sharp visuals, and I can do my complex visualisation exercises with
no difficulty whatsoever. Hmmmm....

Colin
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: eddie@hermes.oit.unc.edu (Edward M. Averett)
Subject: Re: Unicursal Hexagrams
Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 21:20:30 GMT

In article <64756@cup.portal.com> Tagi@cup.portal.com (Tagi Mordred Nagashiva) writes:
>
>Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
>The word of Sin is Restriction.
stuff deleted.

>Ed:
>Ed:
>Ed:
>
>many readings.  Quite effective.  Other ideas:  hang it on the wall in
>front of toilet; put it on your ceiling above the bed; use it like
>gambling houses use their white cards to cut the deck without touching
>the cards; rip it up and burn it.
>
>Ed:
>
>Beware!
>[Everything you know is correct.  Nothing is false. Nothing is impossible.] 

Good comments.  I like your alternative uses particularly.  However, I was
called "ed" as a child, and rejected it when I went to college.  I don't mind
E, eddie, edward, animal, bunny, or any of several other nicknames I have been
given, but Ed just doesn't cut it:  Except (there's always an exception) for 
one way: 

	In college, "ed" became a generic name to call anyone around us, like:
"What an ed thing to do" "Hi ed", "Hey, ed!", etcetera.  We used it as an 
in joke, which culiminated in a Pini ElfQuest parody we found called "EdQuest".
Ha-ha.  I guess you had to be there. 

Anyway, I don't mind being Ed in this manner, but otherwise I'd just as soon 
not.  Or as the old story goes about the hat: 

	A gentleman sitting at a bar with his hat beside him.  A man walks in,
sits down 2 seats down, orders a drink, looks over, picks up the hat, examines
it, says "Nice Hat".  The owner looks at him, and says, "Yeah, and you're 
lucky it's only my 50 dollar hat", taking it back.  "How cum?", says the other
guy.  "Cause if it was my 200 dollar hat, I'd have had to kill ye".  -) 

Oh, by the way, I'm thrilled to finally be Taginated. ...-) 

			-eddie@legba.oit.unc.edu

Organization: Freshman, Physics, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 09:03:54 -0400 
From: Shawn Clayton Knight <knightster+@CMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Magic/magick/midget/maggot???
	<BtoCzH.5yK@news.cso.uiuc.edu>

>The spelling magick was created by Crowley because he was incredibly
>pretentious.  It is unnecessary, and will sometimes get in the way.  I will
>always spell it magic.

BA:  Not to be excessively inflammatory, but have you considered jumping
into traffice just because Crowley never did?  Crowley worship is not
good but nor is Crowley bashing (all the time, unconstructively).

"Magick" is a convenient differentiation from stage "magic", IMHO.

I really didn't think there would be a thread started by this question,
just someone answering (which happened) and I thought that would be it
...

Don't mind me.  I have physics in 1/2 hr.  It's 9 AM.  It's dark.  Hit it.

-shawn
From: amanda@INTERCON.COM (Amanda Walker)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Pagan Computer Chuckle
Date: 26 Aug 92 02:57:48 GMT

Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Pagan Computer Chuckle
Reply-To: amanda@intercon.com (Amanda Walker)
Followup-To: 
Distribution: world
Organization: InterCon Systems Corporation
Keywords: 

knightster+@CMU.EDU (Shawn Clayton Knight) writes:
> Well my LC works just fine ;-) ...

My PowerBook 100 is called "Elfbook"...


Amanda Walker
-- 
Quod fuit est sicut quod erit, et quod erit est sicut quod fuit,
ad perpetranda miracula aeternitatis.

Organization: Freshman, MCS general, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Date: Tue,  1 Sep 1992 22:27:41 -0400 
From: Kerwin Yap Chua <kc3u+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: The pentagram

If we are to believe the archaeological finds in Iraq, the pentagram
originated as a protection symbol used on some of the old talismans and
the famous cylinder seals that ancient Sumerians wore.

Note: I am about to mention the Necronomicon.  Please forgive me, but I
need to make the reference in order to fully answer the question.  I
will not mention it again if I can help it

In the Necronomicon (all of which is probably fake except for the stuff
directly swiped out of the Maqlu and Magan cuniform tablets) the
pentagram is given the name ARRA, which is the protective symbol of what
the book calls "Our Ancient Race".  Whether this is true or not is
irrelevent, since either way the pentagram came from Mesopotamia.  As to
its widespread usage, the only thing I can think of is that
archaeologists are only now beginning to discover that all those ancient
civilizations had extensive diplomatic ties.  Certainly there must have
been some cultural exchange as individual states tried to reason with
one another.

KYC
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: frisinv@alleg.edu
Subject: Necromancy
Organization: Allegheny College
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 14:03:04 GMT

I don't know if this is the right place, but....
   What is known about necromancy? Is it dangerous? I don't read this  
group often, so email me the answers.

-----
Vinnerd
From: Michael_Lee@sorinc.UUCP (Michael Lee)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Another Crowley question
Distribution: world
Date: 28 Aug 92 14:11:57 PDT
Organization: Shades of Reality BBS - Medford, Oregon

In a message dated Thu 27 Aug 92  5:14, Tagi@cup.portal.com (tagi Mordred N
wrote:

 TMN> Robert McGrath writes to Gerald Del Campo:

 TMN> Sure, I am making a moral judgement of Crowely's behavior,  but it
 TMN> is
 TMN> based on rather diffused notions of proper human behavior,
 TMN> such as the notion that deceiving your friends is bad, exploiting
 TMN> your friends is bad, cheating your friends is bad.  That is
 TMN> "not straight" and that is what I am talking about.


 TMN> Response:

 TMN> I didn't hear any name-calling.  Gerald characterized your
 TMN> TONE and your STYLE as sheepish and whimpy (my words), but I didn't
 TMN> hear him talking about you.  I could be mistaken.

 TMN> I find your words completely self-contradictory.  First you say
 TMN> you have no use for 'Christianity or its moral code' and then you
 TMN> go on to judge all kinds of things as 'bad'.  Really, check out
 TMN> the above two paragraphs.  I think it may be the 'proper human
 TMN> behavior' comments you make that repulse those like me.  Since when
 TMN> did you become the bastion of propriety?  And how DOESN'T this
 TMN> fit in with Christianity and its notions of moral sheep?

Since when has Christianity had a monopoly on Right and Wrong?  I think
it's perfectly within Robert's domain to make "moral" and "ethical"
judgement calls on ACs behavior.  Moral's (ones sense of right and wrong")
are not necessarily a function of religion.  Take a look at Humanism.

I believe there is an underlying, universal moral "code".  Call it Kharma. 
Right is nothing more than doing what's Kharmically correct; wrong is just
the opposite.  The problem is, quite a lot of what passes for "right" and
"wrong" has nothing to do with universal morality.  It has to do with power
and control.  At the risk of offending all involved, I think Robert is
dealing more from a universal moral code perspective, and the Thelemite's
are dealing from a power and control perspective.  Most, if not all,
Thelemite's (now isn't _that_ a generalization) don't feel anyone else is
"qualified" to make the moral distinction's for them.  In a lot, if not
most, situations this is a positive thing, given societies lack of insight
into right and wrong.  But there is a downside too.  What happens when the
Thelemite's ain't getting it right?

-- Via DLG Pro v0.992

Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe)
Subject: Re: Magic/magick/midget/maggot???
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 03:42:52 GMT

guest@dhhalden.no (.GJEST) writes:


>Someone please tell me; whats the difference between 'magic' and 'magick'?

There are several opinions on this--this happens to be mine. :)

The spelling magick was created by Crowley because he was incredibly
pretentious.  It is unnecessary, and will sometimes get in the way.  I will
always spell it magic.

              Merry meet, merry part, merry meet again,
                               Br'anArthur

Queer, Peculiar, and Wyrd! :-)
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 21:15:04 -0400 
From: William Henry Timmins <wt0b+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Unicursal Hexagram
	<BtLK2o.H42@news.cso.uiuc.edu>

>It was created by Crowley.  The point is to be able to trace the figure in

	Somehow I doubt Crowley 'invented' the unicursal hexagram. Before I had
even heard of it, I had 'invented' it on my own, in trying to make a
'six pointed star', similar to a pentagram, a seven-pointed star,
nine-pointed, etc, which I have very little difficulty drawing.
	The six pointed star took me about a minute to work out. The eight
pointed star took a while (I kept ending up with interlacing figures)

Maybe he created concepts to go with it, or using it in this framework,
but that's about all, I'd say...

-Me
[Pooh Bear incarnate.]
<B1 c+ f+ w g+ k+ s+ r- e+ p>
From: dantonio@magick.enet.dec.com (David D'Antonio)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Unicursal Hexagram AND Thoth Tarot
Date: 31 Aug 92 16:56:18 GMT
Reply-To: dantonio@flashy.tay2.dec.com
Organization: None to speak of...


In article <1992Aug28.163254.59@terminator.cc.umich.edu>, briansp@css.itd.umich.edu (Brian Spolarich) writes:
|>In article <13516.2a9be997@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu> cranmer@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu writes:
|>
|>>
|>>I think there must be a difference between either...
|>>
|>>(a)  the Large and Small versions, or
|>>(b)  decks sold in different countries, or something.
|>>
|>>I just bought the 'small' deck a week ago in Philadelphia, PA (for about 14
|>>bucks - yeesh), and there is no such card.
|>
|>    Yeah, the larger version was seventeen dollars, and it contains
|>the Unicursal Hexagram card.  It also contains the blank "ghost" card
|>that was the subject of some chatter on alt.pagan.

Just to add to the confusion, last time I checked there were 1 'small'
and 2 'large' decks available. They are published by 2 different
groups, I believe with one group publishing both a 'large' and 'small'
version and the other just a 'large' version. The main difference I
can see (besides the inclusion of extra cards) is that the colours are
more "washed out" in the 'large'-only version. I've been told that
niether version has the colours 'correct' (i.e. the way they are on
the paintings) and thus they are useless for pathworking. But I don't
know for sure...

|> the brown man of La'ar.

DDA

--
dantonio@magick.tay2.dec.com -or- dantonio@sword1.enet.dec.com
  I've tried to dance with what life had to hand me
    My partner's been pleasure, my partner's been pain
				-Stevie Nicks
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: joshua@cpac.washington.edu (Joshua Geller)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Necromancy
Date: 3 Sep 92 18:15:06 GMT
	<1992Sep3.141108.11717@ddsw1.mcs.com>
Organization: Institue for the Study of Ancient Science


In article <1992Sep3.141108.11717@ddsw1.mcs.com> eshin@ddsw1.mcs.com 
(Eshin-Fun) writes:

>   As it stands, the most popular views of this is in the works of John Dee 
>   hin is Actions with Spirits or "A true and faithful Relation of what 
>  pased for  many years between Dr. John Dee and some spirits." (London 1659)

have you actually read this book?

>   and in Allan Kardek's Book of Mediums, Book of Spirits etc in the 1800's 
>   in France.

>   Kardec introduced the popular ouija board or planchette, automatic writing
>   etc as John Dee introduced the conversation with spirits in a graveyard
>   where he did a lot of his experiments. Including of these spirits talking
>   backwards etc.

obviously not. Dee did exactly none of his experiments in graveyards. what
happened was that edward kelley and some third person were doing some 'black
mgick' (demonology as opposed to necromancy). when dee found out about this
he became very upset and made kelley promise to stop.

I've been reading your posts with interest, because they mostly deal with
things I know little about and they seem accurate. Unfortunately, this is
a subject I know a bit about, and your relation of it is dead wrong. This
(to me) throws up a big question mark after your other reportage.

josh
From: dart@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Dartanyan the Witchling)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: TS
Summary: Trying to get contact with Theosophical Society
Keywords: TS, Theosophical Society
Date: 31 Aug 92 15:30:03 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center


	Hiya.
		I'm trying to get an easier contact to the American Theosophic-
al Society.  I know that the closest location publicly known (to Purdue) is
in Wheaton, IL, but that is, well, quite a hike..
		If I can I will talk to them about memebrship and travel
Scholarships, but if anyoner knows an easier way to get in touch with them, 
and perhaps a less public one, I would appreciate a response.

				Thank you, 
					
						D
Newsgroups: alt.magick