From: hakim@bigq.enet.dec.com (Kamran Hakim)
Subject: Re: Bahais and Islam (intro.)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: 13 NOV 92 13:15:01    


In reference to Assad Abbas' reposting of a reply written by Dr. Siddiqui: 

[I had originally posted this reply to soc.religion.bahai, however,
several friends have pointed out that the purpose is to exchange
views and communicate on this issue. Perhaps it is necessary to post
these replies to soc.culture.pakistan, since the readership of these
newsgroups are different. Moreover, I have noticed that Dr. Habib
Siddiqui keeps REPOSTING the same article to s.r.i, s.c.i. and s.c.p. 
I hope these articles open the door to mutual understanding between 
Muslims and Baha'is.   K. Hakim]

In reference to a question raised about the Baha'i Faith "Question
about Baha'i" in soc.religion.islam, the following reply has appeared
which I'd like to respond to:

HS = Dr. Habib Siddiqui

>This from Dr. Habib Siddiqui (RBNXHS@rohvm1.rohmhaas.com):

[Dr. Siddiqui did not include an attribution for the questions that he
quoted in his response.  The questions were originally posed by Ian
Chai (chai@m.cs.uiuc.edu).]

IC>1. Are Baha'is Ahli Al-Kitab (People of the Book)?
HS>Ans: No.

This is correct. The term Ahli Al-Kitab or "people of the Book"
appears in the Holy Qur'an to address Jews and Christians. Since
Baha'i Faith appears after Islam the term will, in a LITERAL SENSE, be
inapplicable to Baha'is. Such an assumption has been the theological
VISA for Muslims to slaughter the Baha'is.

IC>2. Are they considered to commit Shirk (violating Monotheism)? They
IC>   accept Jesus as a Prophet, but also as the Son of God, but they mean
IC>   a different thing from the Christians by the "Son of God" or "God"
IC>   -- they don't mean that he is Allah s.w.t. but that he is a "mirror
IC>   perfectly reflecting Allah" as is also Muhammad s.a.w.

HS>Ans: Let me say that they are not Muslims, since Muslims, as you know,
HS>      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
HS>     are the ones who believe that Muhammad is the last of the Nabis
HS>     (prophets) and Rasuls (Messengers) sent by our creator, Allah.

This is correct. Baha'is are as much Muslim as Jews are Christian.
Yet, Baha'is too believe that Prophet Muhammad is the Seal of of the
Prophets.

HS>     Bahais, like the Qadiani/Ahmedis, do not believe in the finality
HS>     of the nabuat (prophethood) and risala (messngership) in Muhammad
HS>     (SAWS), by twisting the meaning of the verse concerning "khatimin-
HS>     nabiin" in the Qur'an. 

Baha'is understand "Seal of prophethood" is a different manner than
its literal meaning held by Muslims.

Revelation of God DOES NOT, according to Baha'i teachings, end with
Islam.  The assumption of finality is not unique to Islam. Jews claim
that no other religion would appear after theirs to abrogate the
Mosaic laws, and Christians think that Jesus would return to
RE-ENDORSE Christianity. As Prophet Muhammad REJECTED the Jewish and
Christian claim through His revelation, likewise, The Bab and
Baha'u'llah have rejected the Muslim claim to finality of Islam
through Their revalations.

The concept of Islam's finality is a theological absurdity which is
neither supported by Islamic prophecies, nor the Muslim attitude.

HS>All the scholars accept that it means that
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
HS>     there would not be any other Nabi or Rasul after Muhammad (SAWS),
        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
HS>     and this has been further collaborated in the Sahih hadith of the
        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
HS>     Prophet Muhammad (SAWS) (see, e.g., Bukhari and Muslim). Yet, the
        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
HS>     Bahais, like their allies - Qadiani/Ahmadis, say that the phrase
HS>     refers to "ring" (that one puts on the finger for beautification).
HS>     They also fabricate sayings of the Ulama of Islam, including
HS>     Ayesha (RA), Imam Suyuti, to suggest that even the dear wife of
HS>     the Prophet (SAWS) did not accept the fact that Muhammad was the
HS>     last of the Prophets and Rasuls, sent by Allah. They also bring
HS>     some liars in support of their views and claim that these were
HS>     well-known Ulama of Sunni and Shia schools of thought. We have
HS>     never known of any such Ulama in Islam who said contrary to what
HS>     is known about the finality of Muhammad's (SAWS) prophethood and
HS>     Messengership. 

Please leave the Ahmadi friends out of this. Let us examine this issue
together. I will address this issue in the following 5 replies. Let the 
mindful readers judge for themselves.

HS>They are liars. Their deception knows no bounds
HS>     in fabricating hadiths and writings of the Ulama of Islam. *True*
           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
HS>     monotheism can only be found in Islam, and not in some mentally
HS>     unstable person's claims, later propagated and financed by the
HS>     enemies of Islam. (Please, read the books concerning the history
HS>     of this deviant movements and their founders, written by scholars
HS>     of Islam, who have exposed their true images.)

Are you sure my friend. I know at least two Individuals (i.e. Prophet
Muhammad, and Imam Ali) disagreeing with you on this issue.  Imam Ali, 
addressing the status of Muslims at the time of the appearance of Mihdi 
in a rather graphic language as follows:

"Verily, a time will come upon you [i.e. Muslims] wherein nothing 
 will be more concealed than the truth, nothing more manifest than
 falsehood, and nothing more than lies about God and His Apostle [i.e.
 Muhammad]. The people of that time [i.e the Time of the End] will
 possess no commodity more difficult to sell than the Book when it
 is correctly recited, or one more in demand when its passages are
 misinterpreted. There will be throughout all lands nothing more
 detested than good deeds, or more renowned than evil ones. The
 reciters of the Qur'an will have cast it away, and those who memorize
 it will have deliberately erased it from their minds. The book and
 its disciples will, on that day, be ostracized and outcast, two
 friends together on the road, to whom no one will offer shelter. The
 Book and its disciples will be, in that age, among the people and yet
 neither among them nor with them. For error is incompatible with
 guidance.

 Even though the Book and its disciples might come together, the
 people would agree to keep separate [i.e. Muslims and the sects of
 Islam will be disunited among themselves.]. They would disperse from
 the community -as if they were the leaders of the Qur'an rather than
 it being their leader. Nothing will remain of it among them save the
 name; they will know nothing of it save its calligraphy and script.
 Before, they had not made an example of the righteous by maiming
 them, or called their sincerity towards God a lie, or punished good
 deeds with the penalties for crimes. They who preceded you perished
 because they went on hoping for too long and their allotted terms
 expired.  Then the Promised One [i.e. Mihdi or the Lord of the Age or
 the Qa'im] descended, by whom excuses are rejected and upon whom
 repentance has no effect, and with whom are the calamity and the
 affliction."
			--Imam Ali "Nahj-ul-Balagha [The Path of Eloquence]

The above saying is based on similar Hadith from Prophet Muhammad
describing the same issue. I hope that the fair minded would question
the reason behind the existence of such judgment. I wonder how you
reconcile your assessment of the Baha'i Faith with the Hadith I have
quoted above? Would you say this verse of Nahj-ul Balagha to have been
fabricated? Or God forbid this statement was made by Imam Ali at the
time of instability?

HS>     In their goal to accomodate all the man-made theologies or
HS>     religions, they say things which are self-contradictory. How could
HS>     a person be a Hindu (a polytheist) and another a Jew (a monotheist)
HS>     and still both be Bahais? It is definitely a weird, mumbo jumbo
HS>     theology to deceive people. 

Let us examine the issues together, in light of reason, and let the
audience decide for themselves.

HS>Most of the Bahai theology has nothing
HS>     to do with its founder, who was executed in Iran, nearly a hundred
HS>     years ago, but are prducts of Abdul Baha, a self-claiming
HS>     follower. 

:-)

HS>It has from its very inception been supported by the
HS>     Russian and English governments (who were traditionally at war
HS>     with the Muslim Khilafa). Its head office in Israel is run by
HS>     Free Masons and Zionists, who are all agog to see the destruction
                                                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
HS>     of Islam. 
        ^^^^^^^^

The single most dangerous enemy of Islam are, in my humble opinion,
those who only profess to follow Islam. Those whose whose voice is
Islamic while their action is the manifestation of selfishness.

HS>It was as a result of the collaboration between them
HS>     and the late Shah of Iran that they had a free hand in administer-
HS>     ing the government prior to the Islamic Revolution. This also
HS>     explains why the Shah sold oil during the 1973-war to Israel.
HS>     (The entire government, esp. its foreign service and Savak - the
HS>     secret Army of the Shah, was controlled by the Bahais.)

Refer to the quotation I have offered from Imam Ali.

						Intro. 
Warm regards,

Kamran Hakim