From: rafatm@sage.cc.purdue.edu (unknown)
Subject: Re: What is real racism? (Re: Was: Why rish asians should vote Republican)
Followup-To: soc.culture.bangladesh
Organization: Purdue University
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 02:15:28 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.194510.3917@hspice.portal.com>, georgew@hspice.portal.com (George Wu) writes:
> In article <1992Nov18.040848.13667@leland.Stanford.EDU> underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
> >In article <1992Nov18.023033.3440@hspice.portal.com> georgew@hspice.portal.com
> >(George Wu) writes:
> >>>And then, Mr. Wu translates my condemnation of Chinese culture into
> >>>"hating a man without knowing him".
> >>     It seems quite logical to me.  You have condemned an extremely large
> >>group of people.  You can't possibly have met every person who holds that
> >>cultures' values.
> >...
> >>>Let's apply Mr. Wu's reasoning to Nazism, a virulent subculture of
> >>>Western society, and the Khmer Rouge, a political group.
> >>>Then, Mr. Wu basically says, "Hatred of African-Americans, Nazis, or even
> >>>the Khmer Rouge are all the same.  You don't know every member of the group.
> >>>You just hate them all."
> >>     Some of the intrinsic policies of the Nazi Party include anti-Semitism
> >>and genocide.  By definition, a Nazi believes in killing Jews.  What
> >>comparable belief is intrinsic to one raised in Chinese society?  Chinese
> >>culture may be difficult to define, as any culture is, but you're the only
> >
> >We can apply Mr. Wu's reasoning here.  He claims that in order to judge
> >a culture, you must have met every single member of that culture.
> >
> >Has Mr. Wu met every single Nazi?  I'm sure that he hasn't.  Mr. Wu cannot
> >condemn Nazis because he can't make a judgement about them (since he hasn't
> >met everyone of them).  To reiterate, Mr. Wu does not believe the following
> >statement "By definition, a Nazi believes in killing Jews."
> >
> >By the way, I condemn Nazis.  I haven't met every one of them; actually,
> >I haven't even met one.
> 
>      Very well, I grant you have pointed out an error in my argument.  Let
> me state it this way: you condemn Chinese culture for certain alleged
> abhorrent practices.  Your postings aside, I've seen *no* independent study
> or publication stating such behavior is inherent to Chinese culture.  In the
> absence of such evidence, I fail to see how you can make such claims about
> Chinese culture.
> 
> >I do not believe that infanticide is committed by all members of Chinese
> >culture.  As someone else noted, that something is not practiced by
> >all members of that culture does preclude it from being "intrinsic" to that
> >culture.
> >
> >However, infanticide is much more a part of Chinese culture than Western
> >culture.  Not all women in Chinese culture are treated poorly, but the
> >treatment of women in Chinese culture is much worse than in Western culture.
> 
>      Again, on what basis do you make these claims?
> 
> >>[something about the need for data points]
> 
> >Let me put this another way.  If tomorrow, the gov'ts of the USA
> >and China were wiped, what kind of gov't would the people in those
> >countries erect?
> 
> >I believe that the people in the USA would erect a democratic gov't,
> >again.  I don't have statistical information to back me up.  I have
> >not met every member of American society.  However, because I have an
> >understanding of American society, I believe that this is a reasonable
> >conclusion.
> 
> >Similarly, I believe that the people in China would again erect a
> >totalitarian gov't because their culture is so oppresive toward
> >individuality (and just plain leaving people alone).  I don't have
> >statistical information to back me up.  I have not met every member of
> >American society.  However, because I have an understanding of Chinese
> >society, I believe that this a reasonable conclusion.
> 
>      In the absence for the much called for "data points," I can only
> conclude your beliefs are without logical or scientific foundation.  I
> further conclude the most likely basis of those beliefs is pure and
> simple racism.
> 
> >People like Mr. Wu and his Chinese-cu friends are apt to criticize,
> >not culture, but a person's skin color.  They think that African-Americans
> >are inferior because they are black.  They think that Hispanics are
> >inferior because they are brown.  They would not hire an African-American
> >because her skin is too dark.  They want women who are virgins.
> 
> >That's real bigotry.  That's real racism.  That's real sexism.
> 
> >Again, Mr. Wu and his Chinese-cu friends believe that culture = genetics.
> >They insist that because a person is Chinese-ge, she must also be Chinese-cu.
> >This is a belief shared by Nazis, Klansmen, and rednecks; i.e. because
> >you are Chinese-ge, you are expected to do the Chinese-cu thing.
> 
>      You libel me.  On what basis do you claim I "think that African-
> Americans are inferior because they are black?"  I hold none of these
> beliefs, and none of my posts has ever indicated such beliefs.  I demand
> a public apology and retraction.  It is one thing to debate and even to
> point out an error in my logic.  However, it is completely unacceptable
> to publicly accuse a man of racism without foundation.  Nowhere in the
> referenced post or anywhere else have I ever implied I thought anything
> of a man on the basis of his skin color.
> 
> 							George
> 
> 
> -- 
> ----
> George J Wu,  georgew@hspice.portal.com or georgew@metasw.com
> Meta-Software,  1300 White Oaks Road,  Campbell, CA 95008,  (408) 369-5400
> Never be the first to believe.  Never be the last to deceive.  ---  Chess

  For god`s sake people. Are you unable to read? This is the news network for
the social culture of Bangladesh not China or African-Americans. Mr. George 
Wu, judging from your name I would assume that you are not a Bangali. No
one will object to you writing in our news network, but please stick to
issues pertinent to BANGLADESH.
Thank you sir 
Sincerely
Rafat Sadiq
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american