From: mt90dac@brunel.ac.uk (Del Cotter)
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology
Subject: Re:Boudicca
Date: 10 Nov 92 12:01:12 GMT
Organization: Brunel University, West London, UK

Some discussion has taken place off the net between A.T. Fear and Del Cotter
(me) which may be of interest, particularly on 'Life and Death of a Druid
Prince'.  In the summary which follows, D> = Del and A> = Andy.

D> Beware!  This is a Victorian writer's (name?) pet theory.  We don't know
D> where or how Boudicca died, or what part (military or religious) she played
D> in the uprising of AD61.  The earliest source we have is Tacitus, who
D> arrived in Britain many years after the event.

A> No evidence Tacitus came to Britain I think.  His father-in-law Agricola
A> whose biography he wrote was present during the rebellion as a junior
A> officer under the then governor Suetonius Paulinus.  So T may have got
A> some information from him.

 D> Damn!  Another illusion shattered.  I thought Tacitus came over with his
 D> father-in-law, so that he would have at least poked around my home town
 D> a bit, talking to witnesses.  Oh, well.

A> The Agricola is normally dated to 98 AD, some 37 years after the events.
A> The Annals account should be from a little later, but by ancient standards
A> Tacitus is a near contemporary of the events he describes here.  How accurate
A> his accounts are is of course a different matter.  I think it is a little
A> harsh not to see Boadicea as the leader of the uprising, any evidence to
A> suggest she wasn't?

D> Nonono.  I have no doubt she *inspired* the uprising; what I meant was that
D> we don't know precisely what her role was.

MILITARY ROLE

 D> (unlikely, but irresistible to someone
 D> as Rousseauesque as Tacitus)

  A> Hard to tell really. Roman sources, esp. Dio dwell on female leadership,
  A> but this may be for novelty value. Is Tacitus really Rousseauesque? His
  A> Germania, for example, contains a lot of anti-German points as well as
  A> lots of pro-German ones. His account of British atrocities doesn't pull
  A> any punches either.

   D> Okay, I take it back about Tacitus.  You're bound to know the classics 
   D> much better than I do, but it seems to me that he and Dio Cassius and
   D> a lot of other writers do dwell on sensational aspects of barbarian
   D> societies, possibly to the extent of passing on second- and third-hand
   D> rumours.  Like that perpetual middle-class dinner-party favourite,
   D> There's This Tribe...

POLITICAL ROLE

 D> (like Maggie sending the troops to the Falklands)

SYMBOLIC ROLE

 D> (like Liz, gawd bless 'er)

  A> Think these two might go together in Celtic society.

RELIGIOUS ROLE

 D> (there is some suggestion that as the King's wife, she
 D>  was by definition the high priestess, or vice-versa)

  A> The man you want here is Graham Webster = his book Boudica makes the
  A> rising a virtual religious crusade. A newer book by Anne Ross and
  A> someone else called the Life and Death of a Druid Prince pushes this
  A> theory to frankly ludicrous extremes - Lindow Man becomes a potential
  A> resistance leader sent over from Ireland. Good fun but don't believe it.

   D> Read it.  I agree completely.  The mats. sci. is quite straightforward,
   D> and I'm prepared to believe the ritual implications of his last meal and
   D> injuries, but his name, nationality and exact date of death?  Come on! 
   D> For my money, the funniest line in the book is where they make a big
   D> thing about the discovery *to date* of three bodies in Lindow Moss.  Ah,
   D> three eh? nudge,nudge.

A> BTW the tombstone of Julius Classicianus, the procurator who stopped
A> reprisals against the Britons after the revolt still survives and can
A> be seen in the British Museum.

D> Yup.  There is also a cast in the Museum of London and a replica on Tower
D> Hill, by a section of the Roman wall, with a bronze statue whose original
D> is thought to be a statue of Hadrian or Flavian (I forget).

A>  Stephen Dyson in Historia 21 (think that's right) tell me if you're
A>  interested and I'll check has a very good piece IMHO on nativism in
A>  rebellions in the Roman Empire.

D> Please don't tell me.  I *am* interested, but I can't afford the disruption
D> to my studies.  I've enough temptations as it is.

-- 
 ',' ' ',','  |                                                  |  ',' ' ',','
   ', ,','    |       Del Cotter       mt90dac@brunel.ac.uk      |    ', ,','  
     ','      |                                                  |      ','    
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology