HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tara@starburst.umd.edu (Tara McDermott)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Looking for restaurants in LI, NOT NY City!
Date: 18 Dec 92 14:42:10 GMT


This Christmas I'll be visiting my parents in L.I., NY.  I became
vegetarian after I left the area, so I'm looking for good restaurants
that I might visit when I go back in a week and a half.  I don't want
to go anywhere NEAR NY City, and I'd prefer restaurants that aren't in
a very urban type of area.  

I'll be near Hicksville, Locust Valley, Glen Cove, Huntington, Oyster
Bay, but able to branch out further.  I'd like to stick to the north
shore or the more eastern side of Nassaue County.  I'd also prefer a
vegan restaurant, but I'm sure that's a tall order for L.I.!  Any help
is greatly appreciated!

Tara (who wonders how her family will take the anti fur sticker on her
car, while they all wear furs)
--
Tara McDermott               
tara@starburst.umd.edu       
I eat tofu, and I vote.
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: cathyf@is.rice.edu (Catherine Anne Foulston)
Subject: Re: vitamins and hot flashes
Organization: Rice University
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 23:25:53 GMT

In article <altar.724360471@sfu.ca> altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar) writes:

>There is simply no justification for the indiscriminate use of
>multivitamins by healthy individuals who would do much better to
>maybe reduce their intake of fat, expand their range of good
>quality whole foods, and increase their levels of physical
>exercise.

I do agree with this.

However, those of us who know that we are not going to do any of
the above real soon are probably better off taking vitamins than
not.  I know I ought to do all those things, but until I do, I don't
feel too bad about taking a multivitamin.  (As long as it does not
contain megadoses of anything.  The U.S. RDA may be more than most
people need, but it's probably on the right order of magnitude.)
If I were eating well I probably wouldn't take anything.  I don't see
it as a cure-all, and I know the above suggestions would do much more
good, but I don't do them whether I take vitamins or not.

I do wish I could find a vitamin with just the b-complex at just the
U.S. RDA, or even half of it.  I have occasionally had symptoms of B
deficiencies (not B12, yes I saw a doctor, results inconclusive, but
it's not anything serious anyway) and I would like to try
supplementing it a little.  But all the b-complex tablets I've seen
are "stress formula" and have many times the RDA of one or more of the
B vitamins.  Ted's probably right, I should just eat better, but it's
a resolve I've made many times recently with not much success. ;-)

	Cathy
-- 
Cathy Foulston + Rice University + Network & Systems Support + cathyf@rice.edu
Why you should recycle bytes:  "Believe it or not, most deleted bytes currently
find their way straight into the Internet refuse stream, often to turn up in
postings to Usenet, or worse, OSI standards documents!"  -- Peter Deutsch
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: flockoff@lincoln.ac.nz
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: McDonalds Veggie burger
Date: 16 Dec 92 12:08:51 +1300

In article <1992Dec12.184210.13034@cs.mcgill.ca>, jeffjc@cs.mcgill.ca (Jeffrey CHANCE) writes:
> tjfeue@bb1t.monsanto.com wrote:
>>In today's paper, there is a story that McDonalds will start to 
>>market a veggie burger in the Netherlands.  If it does well there,
>>it will be marketed worldwide.
> 
> That's great to hear. I had heard something about McDonald's
> doing this before, can't remember where. I hope the veggie
> burger is successful so that it will be offered everywhere.
> 
> Jeff
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> |    Jeff Chance                       | That to which you   |
> |    Dept. of Chemistry                | give your attention |
> |    McGill University, Montreal       | becomes stronger in |
> |    MAIL: jeffjc@binkley.cs.mcgill.ca | your life.          |
> --------------------------------------------------------------
Hi, I hope this gets through, as its my first try at posting.

Our local McDs' here in New Zealand have been marketing a vege burger for
some time now, and although its not a runaway success, its not doing
too bad and my vege wife loves them.
They basicly contain every vege they have out the back at McDs' plus 
dressing and sauce.  They sell for about $2.50 NZ, while a Big Mac goes,
for about $3.45 NZ here from memory.  They don't keep them on stock so
you have to wait about 4 minutes while they make you one.
As about the only investment needed by McDs' to sell these is a slide
in sign for the price list and a box, I cant see that marketing them
would be too much of a hassle for them, and it certainly couldn't do
their image any harm.

Hope to have been of some help.

------------------------------------------------------------------
| Peter Grooby - Lincoln - NZ
| Probably best not to mail me at above address as I may not get it.
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: u3428aa@unx.ucc.okstate.edu (Jayaram Ramanathan)
Subject: Natural Hygiene
Organization: Oklahoma State University Computer Center, Stillwater OK
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 21:44:05 GMT

I have recently been reading the books "Fit for life" Vols. I and II, by
Harvey and Marilyn Diamond.  Great reading.  I'd recommend this set of
books to anyone who is seriously interested in a wholesome approach to
healthy living.  Would anyone else who has read the book(s) care to
comment on it?

The authors talk about "Natural Hygiene" a lot in their books.  I'm
interested in finding out if anyone can recommend a good book that
describes this topic, especially in an interesting and "layperson"ish
manner.

On a side note, I note with great elation the formation of the
misc.health.alternative group.  Hope this forms a forum for exchange of
useful ideas.   

-jayaram

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: jkapson@ad-29.Naitc.Com (John Kapson)
Subject: Re: McDonalds Veggie burger
Organization: AC Nielsen Co., Bannockburn IL
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 15:03:34 GMT

In article <Dec14.011134.40403@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> meridiem@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Jill Engel) writes:
>In article <1992Dec10.150813.27577@Firewall.Nielsen.Com> jkapson@ad-29.Naitc.Com (John Kapson) writes:
>>
>>Which should send their earnings skyrocketing up about 0.01% right?
>>Seriously, how big a veggie market is their in the US? 

[snip]

>I think I would have to agree with Andy here.  Sure their profits wouldn't
>be huge, but I don't think most veggies avoid fast food places entirely.
>And, if one includes the psuedo-vegetarians, I think there might be a pretty
>good market.  I for one do eat at fast food places when I (and my SO) are on
>driving trips, and we actively look for McDonalds.

Maybe I should have stated my original point more clearly: McD's is
driven by _profit_, pure and simple, and I am very skeptical that they
would change their menu nationwide in order to capture a market that is
comparatively small.  I would guess that the additional money to be made
by changing the menu to accomodate veggies could be made more simply by
opening two new franchises in any college town.  Note that this is only
my opinion regarding McD's altruism.  Should I be proved wrong, great.

+-----------------------+-------------------------------------------------+
|      John Kapson      | "Americans have a right and advantage of being  |
| NRA               ILA | armed -- unlike the citizens of other countries |
| jkapson@nis.naitc.com | whose governments are afraid to trust the       |
|                       | people with arms."      - James Madison,        |
|                       | The Federalist Papers No. 46 at 243-244.        |
+-----------------------+-------------------------------------------------+
|                  PGP Public Key available via email                     |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: guy@harlqn.co.uk (Guy Snape)
Subject: Veg. vitamins - HELP!!
Organization: Harlequin Limited, Cambridge, England
Distribution: rec
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 13:22:25 GMT

A friend has just told me that he thinks the added vitamins (A D & E)
in Flora etc. may be derived from animal carcasses.  Can anyone tell
me if this is the case or not?  Are there any widely available truly
vegetarian margarines?  (I'm not vegan... and often eat non-vegetarian
cheese, for the sake of convenience.  I'm well aware that this leaves
gaping holes in the consistency of my philosophy and lifestyle, and
I'm working on it.  So no flames please.)

Thanks,

Guy
Those who like pirate noises say "Aye!"	          guy@harlqn.co.uk
Those who like horsey noises say "Nay!"   #|My opinions, not my employer's|#
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: cathyf@is.rice.edu (Catherine Anne Foulston)
Subject: Re: New Orleans Chowder
Organization: Rice University
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 00:43:31 GMT

In article <1gno1pINNmdv@hpsdlss3.sdd.hp.com> kra@sdd.hp.com (Katherine Albitz) writes:

>This chowder is healthy and flavorful. I expect that the cheese
>can be left out, but I've never tried that.

I have made a chowder before with vaguely similar ingredients (but
without the mmmmmmm-sounding spices).  It did not have any cheese
but did call for soy milk or a nut milk.  I think I made it with pecan
milk and it was great.  So I suspect this one would be good also with
a little nut milk and no cheese.

	Cathy
-- 
Cathy Foulston + Rice University + Network & Systems Support + cathyf@rice.edu
Why you should recycle bytes:  "Believe it or not, most deleted bytes currently
find their way straight into the Internet refuse stream, often to turn up in
postings to Usenet, or worse, OSI standards documents!"  -- Peter Deutsch
Xref: sparky rec.food.veg:11385 soc.culture.jewish:23434
From: tms@cs.umd.edu (Tom Swiss (not Swift, not Suiss, Swiss!))
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Kosher slaughter (was Re: Medicine & the Mall)
Date: 19 Dec 92 22:03:48 GMT
Followup-To: rec.food.veg
Organization: The Reality Liberation Front (pixels to the people!)

engelson-sean@cs.yale.edu writes:
>
>On the offchance that the comment about kosher slaughter was not meant
>as an ironic joke and that it reflected a serious belief about the
>nature of such slaughter, I am forced to note once again that
>describing it as "letting them bleed dry, while still alive, and not
>bothering with more humane ways of killing them..." is highly
>inaccurate.  This statement calls to mind images of throats cut with
>big, nasty-looking serrated knives, left to scream and jerk while the
>blood slowly drains from a ragged hole.  This could not be further
>from the truth.  In kosher slaughter (called "shechita"), the animal's
>throat is slit with a razor-sharp knife with no detectable nicks or
>serrations (i.e., painless).  

     The problem, as I understand it, is that kosher laws requires the
animal be conscious when this occurs. Health regulations require that
no animal fall dead into the blood of a previously slain animal. So
conscious animals are hung upside by a shackle around one foot, to
await having their throats cut.

     The fact that a razor-sharp knife is used hardly guarntees a
painless death.

>Arguments against
>"inhumane kosher slaughter" stem either from ignorance or
>anti-semitism.

     Please. Not every remark that disagrees with a Jewish tradition or
practice is anti-semitic. To use the word so loosely deprives it of
any value.

===============================================================================
Tom Swiss/tms@cs.umd.edu  |  "Born to die"   |   Keep your laws off my brain!
     "What's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding?" - Nick Lowe 
                     Keep your values off my family.
The Official MBA Handbook on business cards:
      Avoid overly pretentious job titles such as "Lord of the
      Realm, Defender of the Faith, Emporer of Siberia" or
      "Director of Corporate Planning".
Organization: Fifth yr. senior, English, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 18:58:09 -0500 
From: "David F. McWade" <dm3o+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Pets and animal rights



>Cats are more difficult, since they do require meat or fish (for 
>taurine). I don't know much about this, so I won't speak to it much, 
>other than saying I see value to taking in a cat from a pound, even
>if fish were required to support it. 


>-Mary Howard

I recently was visiting some people in North Carolina where they were
feeding their cats vegetarian food (taurine added).

The cats were quite healthy.  The food was expensive, however; maybe
this should be reconstituted as an economic discussion.

Dave
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: cathyf@is.rice.edu (Catherine Anne Foulston)
Subject: Re: Nature's Burger
Organization: Rice University
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 23:03:23 GMT

In article <102134@netnews.upenn.edu> vinson@shiva.seas.upenn.edu (Jack Vinson) writes:

>Is Nature's Burger the box with the "nice" picture of a young girl with
>some animals around her?  If I remember correctly, you can send away for a
>larger print of that painting. 

I think that's Love Burger but I could be wrong.  I rarely leave stuff
in cardboard boxes -- I put it in jars, to avoid attracting the
ubiquitous Houston roaches.  So I don't have the box any more to check.

	Cathy
-- 
Cathy Foulston + Rice University + Network & Systems Support + cathyf@rice.edu
Why you should recycle bytes:  "Believe it or not, most deleted bytes currently
find their way straight into the Internet refuse stream, often to turn up in
postings to Usenet, or worse, OSI standards documents!"  -- Peter Deutsch
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar)
Subject: Re: Organic Foods "Non-essential"???
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 22:06:44 GMT

Leor Jacobi writes:


>It seems to me that...
>There is a clash of paradigms here, between those who view agriculture as
>the sustainer of life and those who view it as a factory.

Good point!

Yes, I think you are hitting the nail on the head (or is it the
cabbage on the head?).

Any ideas about how such a systems conflict can be resolved?  Do you
think consumer choice will be enough or should there be some
government support/requlation?  Here in Canada the latest attempt
to have government certification of organic produce was rejected
since, as they claim, they didn't want to give the impression that
one kind of foodstuff was "better" than another.  So much for
consumer choice.  I wonder why grades of meat (A, B,. . .)  are
permitted by our Canadian government, but no official regulation of the
term, "organic" produce?

					Cheers,
						ted


Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: gedge@cm.cf.ac.uk (Geraint A Edwards)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Veggie restaurants in Paris
Date: 16 Dec 92 09:06:14 GMT
Organization: I'm at, not speaking for: Uni of Wales, College of Cardiff

In article <1992Dec15.135016.1@geovax.ed.ac.uk> brigid@geovax.ed.ac.uk writes:
} Would anyone with knowledge of any (if there are any) vegetarian
} restaurants in the centre of Paris please e-mail the details to 
} me.

I can only ever find the one.  I've forgotten its name, but can
offer directions:

From Notre Dame (on the isle in the Seine) cross the nearest
bridge - the road forks into four or five.  Take the second
route on the left and you should find the restaurant on the left
just down a little slope (that goes into a side street).  The
restaurant is quite green as I remember it, and often covered in
flowers.

Don't be fooled by the chunks of soya (TVP) in the meal - I had to
ask the first time I went - and was assured it was not meat.  At
least I think I was, my French being shameful.

It's not particularly cheap, and only seats about 12!

Bon chance,

Gedge
--
Geraint A Edwards, computing PhD student, gedge@cm.cf.ac.uk     recycle...
Myfyriwr ymchwil yng nghyfrifiadureg --- Prifysgol Cymru Coleg Caerdydd
From: tara@starburst.umd.edu (Tara McDermott)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: VEGAN: Wild Rice and Mushroom Stuffing
Date: 16 Dec 92 01:15:14 GMT


From (can you guess?) a Poultryless "Poultry" Potpouri cookbook by
Karen Davis and United Poultry Concerns.

Wild Rice and Mushroom Stuffing: (serves 8)
--------------------------------
Ingredients: 
1/4 lb (1 stick) margarine, divided
1/2 lb mushrooms, cleaned and sliced
1 cup wild rice
1 cup long-grain rice
2 large onions, chopped (red ones are especially nice)
1 cup chopped celery, including leaves
2 cups stock or water
1 cup toasted and coarsley chopped pecans
1/4 cup chopped fresh parsley
1 tsp. salt
1 tsp. each: sage, marjoram, savory, freshly ground white pepper
2 tsp. celery seed

In a LARGE heavy skillet (I used a 4 qt. pot) melt half the margarine
over medium high heat.  Add the mushrooms and saute, stirring
constantly, for 5 minutes.  Scrape into a mixing bowl.

Melt the remaining margarine in a large skillet (the same one will do
fine) over medium heat.  Add rices, onions, and celery.  Cook over
medium heat for 6 minutes, stirring occasionally.  Add the stock and
brin gto a boil.  Reduce the heat, cover the pot, and simmer for 25
minutes or till the stock is completely absorbed and the rice is
tender.

Stir in the pecans and seasonings, and mix thoroughly.  Bake about 45
minutes covered at 350 (preheated oven) or cook stovetop in a large
oiled skillet.

Note: The stuffing can be made up to two days in advance and
refrigerated, tightly covered.

--
Tara McDermott                                  tara@starburst.umd.edu

Sweet and sweet is their poisoned note, the little snakes' of silver throat,
in mossy skulls that nest and lie, ever singing "die, oh! die."
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: abulsari@abo.fi (Abhay Bulsari VT)
Subject: Limited vegetarianism of India
Organization: Abo Akademi University
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 08:11:29 GMT

I was in India recently for 3 weeks, first time as a vegan.  There was
no difficulty in getting vegan food (since  the use of Ghee is limited
mostly to  households  and  very expensive  restaurants), but  it  was
difficult to explain  vegetarian Indians why I thought the consumption
of animal products was wrong.  While  many vegetarians would not agree
that  consumption  of  milk  amounted  to  exploitation  of  cows  and
buffaloes,  I  carried  along with  me "Vegan nutrition" of  the Vegan
society and had to show people that vegan food was indeed healthier as
well. One  argument given  to me  was that  cows  would not  give milk
before they fed  the calves. This  does change my stand, even if it is
true, and I don't think that is true.

Indian  vegetarianism is based mostly on tradition  and dogma, lacking
fundamental thought.  This is one reason why many Indians start eating
everything when they move abroad.  Indians don't seem to be any better
at ethics considering the acceptability of lying, rampant  cheating of
locals  as  well  as  tourists (I  was  both),  and  the behaviour  of
politicians  and others who wield  power.   One would  want  to  think
otherwise  considering  the   fact  that   India   is  the  origin  of
vegetarianism, and that people  like Mahatma Gandhi were  from  India.
Mahatma Gandhi is the antithesis of Indian thought today.

Indians did not seem to mind the  use of leather at all, and  non-food
use of animal products  was quite acceptable. There was also paramount
ignorance and ignoring.  People  did  not  know what was  contained in
various food and non-food  products,  and  even  when ingredients were
written on food products, people never seemed to read them. Use of fat
in biscuits was  either unknown or was ignored.  In India, I would not
believe what is written as  ingredients,  but even if  it said  "fat",
vegetarians  did  not  seem  to  bother. A  food  item  is  considered
vegetarian  as long as it looks  vegetarian enough. Cheese (containing
rennet) is considered vegetarian, since it looks vegetarian enough.

There  are  nevertheless, shops  and establishments which consider the
smallest details that are of interest to  us.   KVIC's shops (commonly
called Khadi Bhandars) have  leather chappals and shoes that are  made
from naturally dead animals, their soaps don't have animal fat. I took
10  pieces of Vandana sandalwood  soaps (Rs. 4 for 100 gm,  which is a
normal  price in India) and asked them about the kind of oils and fats
used in them.  I was told that they contained non-edible  oils, but no
animal fats.

Indians in India don't seem to read r.f.v.  There are only a couple of
sites which take in the Usenet  news, and perhaps only one is able  to
post without e-mailing.

With regards,

Abhay
From: ldh@svl.cdc.com (Lawrence D. Hare)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Vegetarians or not vegetarians? (Re-Post)
Date: 16 Dec 92 18:23:36 GMT
Organization: Control Data Systems
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1.1d9
X-XXMessage-ID: <A754B3BD42010456@ethelred.svl.cdc.com>
X-XXDate: Wed, 16 Dec 92 10:21:49 GMT


 
(Re-Posted due to loss of first line)

Hello, I am using Lawrence's Internet address as I do not have one. I 
am a vegan vegetarian interested in exchanging and learning ideas from
other vegetarians. 

I am surprised that very few people here bother to say whether they are
vegetarian or not when criticizing. I find it puzzling for example, as I
do not have a great deal of free time, why a couple of recurrent writers
(Steve Dyer and Rich Young) post so much. They never say it, but they
certainly do not sound like dedicated vegetarians. Are they dev
a life study of vegetarianism without reaping the benefits? Or simply
have lots of free time while chewing on dead animals? I am using these
two as an example because they are so often found in here. 

Many thanks for the courtesy of those who bother to be clear when they
post controversial material, replies and rebuttals.

By the way: The inhumane "manufacturing" of factory animals for human
consumption kills a lot more plants than we would kill if we all became
vegetarians. So if we care for plants, let's stop eating animals.
Animal eaters who think that such an attitude is hypocritical can
restrain from eating both animals and plants to set a good example if
they wish.

Donata
-----------------------------------
Donata M. Valli c/o ldh@svl.cdc.com
"I am in favor of animal rights as well as human rights. That is the way
of a whole human being."
    Abraham Lincoln (1809-1865)
Xref: sparky rec.food.veg:11355 soc.culture.jewish:23336