HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: colombo@bronco.fnal.gov
Subject: Re: Car-to-car contact at high speeds
Organization: Fermilab Computing Division
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 17:12:02 GMT

In article <-#h2caq@rpi.edu>, kaminl@aix.rpi.edu (Matt Garretson) writes:
>   I have a question, but first, here is the background:
> 
>    Suppose I'm going along in the left lane maybe 70mph, and a car to my
> right starts to come into my lane where I already am (i.e. to bump into
> my right side). There is no shoulder to the left to swerve into safely-
> only a guardrail (or oncoming traffic! :( ).  I don't want to end up 
> bouncing all over the place like the car above. And I can't brake quickly
> since there are cars on my tail (%^*&@! tailgaters). So, is it a good idea
> to steer into the car, with the intention of keeping it from pushing me
> where I don't want to go? I don't mean swerving into it, but trying to
> exert enough pressure once contact is made to maintain my own position,
> and hopefully give the other driver enough time to correct his steering.
> Will side-to-side contact between cars be disasterous at 70mph?  It
> seems to work ok in the movies, anyway.  What is the best thing to do in
> a situation like this? I know there are many variables, but any
> comments would be appreciated.

Don't hit the other car first, otherwise *you* will be the cause of the
accident.  If you are hit and forced into the wall, IMHO, the best thing
to do is keep your wheels turned into the wall and stay there, oh yeah,
and hit the brakes.  Forget what you see in the movies, you don't know
how many *takes* they did or editing changes were made to get it right.

-- 
 ___________________________________________________________________________
 *****  *   *  From the e-net desk of: Rick Colombo CD/DCD/DSG    *    *
 *      **  *  Fermi Nat'l Acc'l Lab   708-840-8225 Fermilab     * *   *
 ***    * * *  P.O. Box 500   MS 369   Feynman Computer Center  *****  *
 *      *  **  Batavia, Ill. USA 60510 Colombo@fnal.fnal.gov    *   *  *****
 *    Of course I speak for: Fermilab, Congress and the President... NOT!!!
From: jrd@po.CWRU.Edu (John R. Daker)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
Subject: Re: What are some common myths about driving?
Date: 18 Dec 1992 16:58:19 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: jrd@po.CWRU.Edu (John R. Daker)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, linley@netcom.com (Bruce James Robrert Linley) says:

>In a previous article rbusch@watarts.uwaterloo.ca (Robert Busch) spake...
>>So here's a call for help: send me your myths!
>
Driving is an inalienable right.
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------>DarkMan-------->
Case Western Reserve University,  Cleveland, Ohio            DoD #650
Anyone know where a BSME can get a job?  Available 1/93.  This is for real!
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
From: goudreau@batman.rtp.dg.com (Bob Goudreau)
Subject: Re: 65mph saves lives!?
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 18:02:55 GMT
Organization: Data General Corporation, RTP, NC

In article <55890018@hpsgm2.sgp.hp.com> leonglaw@hpsgm2.sgp.hp.com (Lawrence LEONG) writes:
> There is more than just speed limits.  In Netherlands, Germany and
> Austria, I noticed that there were limits, but you wern't penalised
> for it unless you did something stupid (eg road hogging) ...

You mean that you'll only get a ticket for left-lane hogging if
you're going *faster* than the recommended limit?  I would think
that left-lane hogs going even slower than the limit would be the
ones most deserving of punishment.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob Goudreau			Data General Corporation
goudreau@dg-rtp.dg.com		62 Alexander Drive	
+1 919 248 6231			Research Triangle Park, NC  27709, USA
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
From: dpape@imlab (Daniel X Pape)
Subject: "3-band" Radar
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 09:46:43 GMT

Sorry about this.. this seemed like the most appropriate rec.autos.* group.

Anyone know a mail order source for good CHEAP 3-band radar detectors. 
I'm trying to find one for my girlfriend and want to avoid speending $300
at some retail stores I have been too.

Thanks for any help.

Happy Holidays!

Dan Pape

Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
From: mwbg9715@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Mark Wayne Blunier)
Subject: Re: Snow and 4x4's
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 19:26:19 GMT

derek@nezsdc.icl.co.nz (Derek Tearne) writes:

>In article <1992Dec10.144049.7860@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu> jern@visual1.jhuapl.edu (Bob Jernigan) writes:
>>
>>Well it's happening again.  Today we are having our first
>>snow of the year and the 4x4's are crashing, along with the
>>4x2's, of course.  I saw several in trouble this morning on
>>the way to work.  Why would they think that a 4x4 has more
>>braking, turning traction than any other vehicle?

>There is nothing funnier than seeing someone try to impress their friends
>in poor conditions without knowing what they are doing.

...Stuff deleted..

>On returning to the spot we were asked if we had a tow rope?

>Evidently some guys in a volkswagen combi had seen our tracks and assumed 
>they could follow.  Then a guy in a Landcruiser (his girlfriends) had offered
>to tow them out if they could get a rope.  So we lent them our steel cable
>and manual winch.  

>The guy in the Landcruiser was completely clueless and reversed into this 
>obviously soft sand in 2 wheel drive.  He then spun his wheels and dug in 
>real well.  Then he tried 4 wheel drive (as described above) and nothing 
>happened.  His girlfriend was saying "Don't you do something to the hubs dear?"
>but he was to big a man to listen.  After about half an hour of this I used 
>the Landcruiser as a ground anchor,  winched the combi out using the manual
>winch, then got in the landrover, drove through all the soft sand, towed out
>the Landcruiser then drove back through to our spot as though it was a car
>park.

I saw a similar incident this summer at the beach.  Vehicle #1 got stuck.
Vehicle #2 pulled Vehicle #1 out, but it got stuck in the Process.  Vehicle
one figures if he can barely drive around may he should get tow truck for
#2.  Very small tow truck comes, winches out vehicle #2.  Mean while 100 
yards away is vehicle #3 stuck down to the frame.  They were trying to
dig sand out from under the truck.  They waved the tow truck on, but he
waited anyway.   Seems none of them were smart enough to jack vehicles
up and fill the holes beneath the tires back up and then they have been
able to drive out!


>-- 
>Derek Tearne.   --   derek@nezsdc.icl.co.nz   --    Fujitsu New Zealand   -- 
> _______
> _______} This is a Usenet condom<tm>.  Roll the condom over the .signature 
>	  file before posting to protect yourself from .sig retro-viri

Mark
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
From: lagrangj@unvax.union.edu (Joshua C. LaGrange)
Subject: Re: 65mph saves lives!?
Organization: Union College, Schenectady, NY
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 05:07:09 GMT

hovnania@iftccu.boeing.com (Paul Hovnanian) writes:

>>	When I was in Germany (around Munich) this summer, I rode
>>the Autobahn a bit and I can tell you that the drivers I saw were
>>much better (skill-wise and considerate) than drivers in the US.
>>BTW-most of the Autobahn I was on had posted speed limits of 100K (60mph)
>>but many cars were travelling much faster in the left lane.

>Contrary to popular belief, the Autobahns all have speed limits. The hiway
>patrol there are given the discresion to enforce them as they see fit. If an
>officer does not believe a driver is capable of handling higher speeds, he
>(she) may cite a driver. The pratice is to use this as law in conjunction
>with their good judgement. In this country (the good old USA) the highway
>patrol officers are not presumed to have good judgement (by the court system)
>and must pull ALL violators over. This is unfortunate, because the only way
>to develop that judgement is to excercise it. Also, the German public seems
As I remember, from experience and my German friends, only certain, less than
ideal sections of the autobahn have speed-limits.  Perhaps someone in Germany
can confirm/deny this?
-- 
Josh LaGrange                  *                    
lagrangj@unvax.union.edu       *           (cute stuff deleted  
Phone: (518) 370-6908          *
The views that I express are shared by very few responsible people.
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
From: linley@netcom.com (Bruce James Robrert Linley)
Subject: Re: What are some common myths about driving?
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, UCLA
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 04:33:58 GMT

In a previous article rbusch@watarts.uwaterloo.ca (Robert Busch) spake...
>So here's a call for help: send me your myths!

Pedestrians have the right of way! (Sorry, couldn't resist)

Seriously:
It's illegal to drive with the interrior dome light on. Or is it?

-- 
Bruce James Robert Linley | "Well, I tried shoving a weiner in the warp drive,
Comp Sci & Engr, UCLA     |  but it didn't do a bit o' good."
<linley@netcom.com>       | - Star Dreck, c/o Dr. Demento
<linley@seas.ucla.edu>    |
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
From: thos@suite.sw.oz.au (Thomas Cohen)
Subject: Minis from ... Re: The Italian Job
Organization: Softway Pty Ltd
Date: 20 Dec 92 22:59:58 GMT

In <1992Dec17.234650.13072@news.Hawaii.Edu> ross@tarski.tmc.edu (David Ross) writes:

>In article <1992Dec13.171750.9513@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu> jern@visual1.jhuapl.edu (Bob Jernigan) writes:

>>I just read in Autoweek that Rover has produced a Mini in honor
>>of the 25th anniversary of _The Italian Job_. 

>I always assumed these were Innocentis, not Minis.  (An Innocenti
>is basically a Mini with an engine on steroids.)  

No it isn't!  An Innocenti is a Mini built in Italy, with either 
the 998 or 1275 engines. None of them were more powerful than the
English built Cooper S's, although the Innocenti Cooper S was as
powerful. The body was different, too. In fact, it would be hard
to get more power from the normal motor unless you went to bigger
carburettors, or changed the camshafts, neither of which were done.
In Australia they contemplated manufacturing the S with twin 1 1/2"
SUs, but decided that the insurance was enough as it was.

The cars in the movie were English-built Mk1s - you could tell this from
the tail-lights.

regards,
-- 
thos cohen           "In a racing car, Mansell |Softway Pty Ltd
is as fast and brave as any, Senna included... |ACSnet:         thos@softway.oz
When it comes to mind games with Senna, he does|UUCP: ...!uunet!softway.oz!thos
not have a great arsenal" - Peter McKay, SMH   |Internet:    thos@softway.oz.au
Xref: sparky rec.autos.driving:7164 misc.legal:21262
From: fsars@acad3.alaska.edu
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving,misc.legal
Subject: Re: Cars, tape recorders, and the police...
Date: 11 Dec 92 22:20:28 GMT
Article-I.D.: acad3.1992Dec11.142028.1
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Alaska Fairbanks

In article <1992Dec11.173702.11983@porthos.cc.bellcore.com>, whs70@dancer.cc.bellcore.com (sohl,william h) writes:
> 
> I don't recall ever seeing any restriction/law that would prohibit
> recording as asked about by James Linley.  Most recording prohibitions
> have to do with telephone conversations.  The police routinely "wire"
> informants and undercover cops all the time.  Even if the recorded
> conversation might not be admissable as evidence, just hand it over
> to the newspapers and see how quickly the police chief and/or mayor
> jumps on avoiding an embarresing sitution.
> 
> Standard Disclaimer- Any opinions, etc. are mine and NOT my employer's.
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Bill Sohl (K2UNK) BELLCORE (Bell Communications Research, Inc.)
> Morristown, NJ             email via UUCP      bcr!cc!whs70
> 201-829-2879 Weekdays      email via Internet  whs70@cc.bellcore.com

Actually, the uniformed Alaska State Troopers all carry tape recorders
with the mike in their tie clip.  They supposedly are supposed to have
it on during each traffic stop.  I get stopped every so often (I don't
have up to date registration tags on my vehicle, though my
registration is up to date; never have gotten a ticket or even a
written warning) but have never had them tell me that I'm being
recorded.  And while it's no secret that they do this, it's not common
knowledge either. === Al
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
From: ashaw@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (andrew.shaw)
Subject: Re: 5-speed in the snow
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 18:43:33 GMT

From stresres@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Mark Vanetten):
> As far as steel wheels in the snow, it is so the salt and curb-jobs don't 
> wreck your nice wheels, also you don't have to mount and balance every time
> the weather changes.

On the same lines, every year I swear I am going to investigate
studded snow tires, and every year I don't.  So this year I would
like to ask for information about these things.  I know that they
can only be used between certain months but:

1.	Do they really work, especially on "black" ice?
2.	Do they give you an impossibly rough ride on clear roads?
3.	Do they give less traction in clear, or rainy, conditions?

Also, what is the coin that if when inserted in the tread, alignment
with the top of the president's head indicates tire replacement time?
(In other words, how much minimum tread depth is generally favored?)

Thanks from he who is tired of doing 180s on the (bridge may freeze
before road surface) highway,

	Andrew

Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
From: lowry@watson.ibm.com (Andy Lowry)
Subject: Re: More Police Intimidation
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 20:19:14 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

In article <1992Dec10.133931.1@jaguar.uofs.edu> twj2@jaguar.uofs.edu writes:
 >   I can definitely sympathize with the original writers.  I'm 17
 > and I drive a 1973 Malibu.  I have been stopped and questioned
 > numerous times without much good reason.
 > 
 >        1. Friday night last fall.  I'm driving along in traffic and
 > I slide over toward the middle of the car to roll down the
 > passenger side window (the Malibu is a big car!) and then slide
 > back and refasten my seat belt.  I never even left the lane
 > although I did jerk the wheel once or twice.  Anyways a local
 > police officer pulled me over, put me through the third degree
 > about where I was coming from, what I was doing, etc...  I was
 > there on the side of the road for about thirty minutes while my car
 > was searched and I was put through a battery of simple DUI tests.
 > (I was NOT drunk.)  I was let go with a 'warning'.  For what?

Perhaps for driving recklessly?  If you *have* to have the passenger
side window rolled down and can't do it without disrupting your
driving (which you admit it did, in this case), pull over at your next
reasonable opportunity and do it while you're stopped!

(A bit off the subject, I know...)
--
Andy Lowry, lowry@watson.ibm.com, (914) 784-7925
IBM Research, P.O. Box 704, Yorktown Heights, NY  10598
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
From: cloos@theory.TC.Cornell.EDU (James H. Cloos Jr.)
Subject: 5-speed in the snow
Organization: Cornell Information Technologies, Ithaca, NY 14853
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 08:27:23 GMT

I will be taking delivery of a new car in a couple of weeks, with
(finally!) an enjoyable :) transmission.  This will, however, be the
first car I've been the principle driver of that did not have a boring
3-speed automatic.  Although I have had the opportunity to log a few
(dozen) miles in cars w/ manuals, not to mention ~500 mostly highway
miles in a 22 foot, 9 ton rental van, I've never driven a manual in
the snow.  If the last couple of days are any indication, I'll have
that chance RSN.

So, does anyone have any recommendations for driving a 5-speed FWD car
in the snow for someone who has only previously had the chance to
drive automatics (RWDs & then FWDs) in the snow?

Any other comments are welcome, too.

P.S.	I noticed in looking at a review of the car, and doing some
	figuring based on the gear ratios as reported, that in 5th
	gear the torque peak hits at 65mph (2400 rpm).  Does that
	sound like pure coincidence?  Or would that, esp given the
	low torque peak, suggest that they chose the top gear ratio
	such that the (advertised) torque peak would be near 100km/h?

-JimC

	
-- 
James H. Cloos, Jr.		include <std/disclaimers.h>
Cloos@Theory.TC.Cornell.EDU     include <std/qotd>
Cloos@Batcomputer.UUCP 		Phone:  +1 716 866-5249
Cloos@CrnlThry.BITNET 		Snail:  POBox 1111, Amherst, NY 14226-1111
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
From: jimb@access.digex.com (Jim Brooking)
Subject: Re: Snow and 4x4's
Organization: National Commitee to Keep Slower Traffic Right
Distribution: dc
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 21:59:06 GMT

In article <1g89reINN31b@gilligan.East.Sun.COM> mike@gilligan.East.Sun.COM (Mike Roncadori) writes:
>In article <1992Dec10.144049.7860@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu> jern@visual1.jhuapl.edu (Bob Jernigan) writes:
>#
>#Well it's happening again.  Today we are having our first
>#snow of the year and the 4x4's are crashing, along with the
>#4x2's, of course.  I saw several in trouble this morning on
>#the way to work.  Why would they think that a 4x4 has more
>#braking, turning traction than any other vehicle?
>#
>
>I guess they're stupid enough to let that easy takeoff
>lull them into thinking it can brake, steer, etc. just
>as well. It kind of amazes me, but I guess they don't
>give it a thought, until it's too late. I just hope
>they don't smash into me, while discovering their mor-
>tality.

I just luv people around here (DC) when it snows.  Especially
the 4x4 owners.  (Although Mike here seems to be "a good guy" 8^)

Are there any other DC area drivers here who are from places where
it "really" snows?  I'm from upstate NY.  Thursday's snow was like
a spring rain.  8^)  I drive my little 323 around and have no problems
while the idiots in their tanks & trucks are all over the roads...

And how 'bout the ones with the sportscars w/o tires equipped to
handle snow?  They're truly entertaining.  I live on a hill in
Maryland.  I saw a guy in a 280Z get a ticket last year after
an ice storm.  He was halfway up the hill, and couldn't move.
Cop came along & busted him for no snow tires (I guess).  A bunch
of us residents eventually came along and pushed his tail up
the hill.

Drive safe.









-- 
jimb@access.digex.com  | (Cage) 1991 323se     ZCP-710   |     Comus Road
Merry Land (MD) U.S.A. | (Bike) 1986 GSXR750    (sold)   |     ClarksBURG
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NeXTmail to uunet!digicon1!jimb                         [NXSig terminate:self]
From: winders@aux.support.apple.com (Scott Winders)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
Subject: Re: overcompensating steering
Date: 11 Dec 92 18:13:33 GMT
Followup-To: rec.autos.driving
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.

In article <1g89e5INN538@uwm.edu>, danno@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Daniel Gary
Soiney) wrote:
> 
> the 356 uses a swing axle rear suspension which will cause the oversteer you
> describe.  what happens is the body rolls and th erear wheels try to tuck under the chassis, causing sudden oversteer  no real fix for it except to be careful and aware of the handling characteristics

Actually, the swing axle design is not the cause but it does
make the oversteer more severe.  The main problem is the rear
bias in the weight distribution.  The 911 also has significant
oversteer and it does not have a swing axle rear suspension.

Scott Winders
winders@aux.support.apple.com

"My opinions are my own, not my employer's"
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
From: mchaffee@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Real Life?!?! HA!!)
Subject: Re: 5-speed in the snow
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 07:26:36 GMT

cloos@theory.TC.Cornell.EDU (James H. Cloos Jr.) writes:

>So, does anyone have any recommendations for driving a 5-speed FWD car
>in the snow for someone who has only previously had the chance to
>drive automatics (RWDs & then FWDs) in the snow?

My only warning is be careful engine-braking on slippery stuff.  What this
does is apply a braking force to the front wheels, creating a possibility
that the rear could start getting funny.  It has to be REALLY BAD, BTW, for
this to be a problem....

>P.S.	I noticed in looking at a review of the car, and doing some
>	figuring based on the gear ratios as reported, that in 5th
>	gear the torque peak hits at 65mph (2400 rpm).  Does that
>	sound like pure coincidence?  Or would that, esp given the
>	low torque peak, suggest that they chose the top gear ratio
>	such that the (advertised) torque peak would be near 100km/h?

Why?  I can't imagine that being much of an asset; the only plus that would
come of having the torque peak come up at 65mph in top gear would be that you
might have less trouble accelerating in traffic without having to downshift.
Of course, if you need anything resembling max torque when accelerating, you'd
be better of downshifting so you have a bit more acceleration, should the need
arise.  It sounds like you're asking whether the reason is for 0-100 km/h num-
bers, but of course when you're accelerating the car to 100 km/h as quickly as
possible, you're going to be in 2d or 3d gear when you get there anyway.
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
From: trussell@cwis.unomaha.edu (Tim Russell)
Subject: Re: Police Intimidation
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 02:03:31 GMT

tonym@world.std.com (Tony Matt) writes:

>There was a Supreme Court case in the 80s that, if I remember correctly,
>established that search warrants are not necessary to search a motor
>vehicle on a public thoroughfare.  I believe that 'probable cause' was
>the standard deemed constitutional.  I have not heard of any revisions
>to that case (refinements of probable cause notwithstanding).

    And it has also been decided by the Supreme Court (I can't cite the
actual case) that failure to consent to a search does NOT constitute
probable cause in any way, shape, or form.

--
   Tim Russell                 Omaha, NE              trussell@unomaha.edu
      "Hate is not a family value.  Boycott Colorado." - Melinda Shore
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving,misc.legal