HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: djdaneh@pbhyc.PacBell.COM (Dan'l DanehyOakes)
Subject: Re: SUMMARY: Books From Alien Perspective.
Reply-To: djdaneh@PacBell.COM (Dan'l DanehyOakes)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 16:34:43 GMT

Warning:  SPOILERS for THE EINSTEIN INTERSECTION (a/k/a A FABULOUS,
FORMLESS DARKNESS) by Samuel R. Delany.  Since figuring out what's
going on is one of the finer pleasures of this book, I recommend you
not read this chain if you haven't read TEI.



In article <cicero.1aod@hotcity.COM> cicero@hotcity.COM (Andreas Locicero) writes:

>               _The Einstein Intersection_ by Samuel Delany.  [This book]
>          is written from the point of view of a being that is apparently
>          descended from the human species but is far enough down the
>          evolutionary road as to be alien.

Well, no, not exactly.  The "people" of TEI are beings from another 
space/time (thus the wretched title), who have taken the physical and
cultural "forms" of the humans who had, apparently, abandoned them (and
the Earth) some unmeasured amount of time ago.  Their grasp of both is
very erratic.  Physically, "imperfect" specimens keep being born.
Culturally, there are dozens of examples; in the most obvious, they've
confused the legend of Orpheus with that of the Beatles.  (Note:  it
was written before the Beatles had broken up, let alone John Lennon
shot.)

Anyway -- it *does* fit onto this list, but it really should be kept off,
since merely putting it on is a spoiler.

			I cooked your meals, I cleaned your house,
			And this is how you pay me back
			For all my kind unselfish loving deeds?  HA?!?
			Well, you just wait, they'll find you yet,
			And when they do. . .
				-- "Napoleon XIV"

Dan'l Danehy-Oakes, Net.Roach
My opinions do NOT represent Pacific Bell,
Professional Development, or anyone else.
But I'm willing to share.
From: mark@inmet.camb.inmet.com (mark hertel)
Subject: Re: Science Fiction Book Club
Organization: Intermetrics Inc, Cambridge MA
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 01:41:22 GMT

In article <142e8pINNlsp@network.ucsd.edu> earharta@sdsc.edu writes:
>  Bad Points - 1) I HATE that stupid 'check this and send it in by
>                  such-and-such a date or get some books.'  I got a
>                  lot of books from them because I was soooooo lazy
>                  about sending in that card (like the music clubs do).
>
>Alan Earhart

I found that with a simple phone call to the number on the back of the
reply form that the "check this and send back before date" could be
changed to "only send back card if you want a book, none will be
sent otherwise".  This has definately helped me not get many books
because of my laziness.

mark


Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: 10726446@eng2.eng.monash.edu.au (LAU WAI KUEN)
Subject: Lovecraft
Organization: Faculty of Engineering, Monash University 
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 01:33:43 GMT


   For all those maniac Lovecraft fans out there; TMNT (the real one, not 
the bullshit-kiddieized version) had a _very_ good issue where the author (
and artist) did a Lovecraft type story.  It is _good_, and definitely worth 
buying if you can find it.  If you're interested in the exact comic number, 
mail me.  (I'll have to dig the thing out of my collection to find it.)
The issue was called 'Men of Shadows'.

Halcyon 9000



Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 13:04:07 -0400 
From: "Andrew C. Plotkin" <ap1i+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: awful fantasy alert
Distribution: world

Excerpts from netnews.rec.arts.sf.written: 29-Jul-92 awful fantasy alert
Stan Malyshev@soda.berke (1185)

> I'd just put down the grim creation of Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman
> called _Dragon Wing_ of the Death Gate Cycle series, after reading about 20
> pages.

> Their style of writing is that of an average high-schooler;  I was surprised
> to see this in published form.

Oh, you fail to understand, you see.

It's a joke. The whole book is a setup to a pun, which resides in a
footnote on page 200 (plus or minus a lot -- it's been a while). After
slogging through 200-whatever pages, thinking "geeeccchhh, this is
dull," I got to the pun and cracked up. Not so much from the joke (it
wasn't *that* funny), but in sheer relief -- I realized that all that
posturing and history-lecturing and world-building wasn't meant to be
taken seriously!

Unfortunately, the authors then wrote another 100 pages, and then three
sequels (with three more to come.) So it turned out to be "geeeccchhh"
after all.

:-)

--Z

"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the borogoves..."
From: ckd@eff.org (Christopher Davis)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Mote background ???
Date: 21 Jul 92 18:01:01 GMT
	<NICKH.92Jul21072305@VOILA.VENARI.CS.CMU.EDU>
Distribution: usa
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation Tech Central

Nick>    == Nick Haines <nickh@CS.CMU.EDU> 
Richard> == rclark@lpl.arizona.edu (Richard Clark x4971) writes:

 Richard> I recall that in 76 or so N/P did a 'how we got together and
 Richard> wrote it' piece which apeared with a short story set on New
 Richard> Scotland back during the Wars covering the time the Crazy
 Richard> Eddie Probe was being launched. They were in some issue of
 Richard> Galaxy around late 75 or 76.

 Nick> I don't know if this is the same thing, but something very
 Nick> similar was published in the UK paperback edition of Pournelle's
 Nick> "A Step Further Out" (don't know if it originally appeared in
 Nick> that column, or in other editions of the book). From what I
 Nick> remember it was meant to go in `Mote' but they had to trim it.

The novella(?) "Motelight", which was supposed to go at the beginning of
_Mote_, was in one of the early _There Will Be War_ books.  Maybe the first.
It was trimmed due to space reasons (_Mote_ was too damn big already).
(It was about a space battle featuring some of the folks who were in
_Mote_, and took place shortly before the "main" action, as I recall.  I
read it before I'd read _Mote_, so it didn't really click.)

The short about the founder of the Church of Him (the bit set on New
Scotland when the probe was launched) was reprinted in either _N-Space_
or _Playgrounds of the Mind_ (no, I don't remember which, I have them
both in hardcover anyway :-) along with other background on the _Mote_
universe, Alderson drive, et. al.  The short was also trimmed for space
reasons, as I recall.

Dang, I should dig these out (along with my copy of _Mote_, of course!)
and reread them all; this thread is making me reminisce too much... :)
--
Christopher Davis * ckd@eff.org * System Administrator, EFF * +1 617 864 0665
   ``The First Amendment is often inconvenient.  But that is besides the
  point.  Inconvenience does not absolve the government of its obligation
         to tolerate speech.'' --Justice Anthony Kennedy, in 91-155
From: aldis@kralizec.zeta.org.au (Aldis Ozols)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Dave Duncan's A MAN OF HIS WORD
Date: 24 Jul 92 04:47:23 GMT
Organization: Kralizec Dialup Unix Sydney: +61-2-837-1183 V.32

louzon@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu (Louzon ronald g) writes:


>      I just stayed up all night to finish the last of the four novels
>in this execellent series.  I can't recommend this series enough.  It's
[stuff deleted]

>      Anyway, this series places in my top 15 fantasy books/series so
>do yourself a favor and get these books.  You won't be able to put them
>down

I found out about these books on this newsgroup, went out and bought them,
and agree with the 'review' above.  I've bought several other Dave Duncan
books since, and they're all good.  The only problem is, I can't find 
the third book of the "Seventh Sword" series.  I can't understand why
all the bookshops still have copies of I and II, but not III!

Aldis Ozols
Sydney, Australia

SIG ERROR  152: WIT FAILURE AT LINE 7
.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: pjs@euclid.JPL.NASA.GOV (Peter J. Scott)
Subject: Re: Gerrold
Reply-To: pjs@euclid.jpl.nasa.gov
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, NASA/Caltech
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 15:58:11 GMT

In article <0153@calsci.UUCP>, al@calsci.UUCP (Al Petterson) writes:
> >Does anybody know when/if the final book of the
> >Rage For Revenge / Matter for Men / Day for Damnation
> >series will be published.
> 
> Book IV is to be _A_Season_For_Slaughter_ and Book V is to be
> _A_Time_For_Treason_.
> 
> Book IV will be published in Spring 1990.  Gerrold said so.  :-) In other
> words, I have no f***ing idea.  Wish I did.

Current issue of Locus says the final draft was just submitted to the
publisher.

-- 
This is news.  This is your       |    Peter Scott, NASA/JPL/Caltech
brain on news.  Any questions?    |    (pjs@euclid.jpl.nasa.gov)
From: swf@teradata.com (Stanley Friesen)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Just read _Hyperion_/_Fall of...
Date: 21 Jul 92 19:52:02 GMT
Reply-To: swf@tdat.teradata.com (Stanley Friesen)
Organization: NCR Teradata Database Business Unit

In article <pgf.711605291@srl03.cacs.usl.edu> pgf@srl03.cacs.usl.edu (Phil G. Fraering) writes:
|Was/is there really a St. Teilhard?

I would suppose he was refering to Teilhard de Chardin, the famous
Jesuit biologist/philosopher. I don't know if he has been officially
sainted though.

|Was anyone out there annoyed by his attempt to mix genres,
|(which in the end was successful),

Nope, I thought it was great.  It kept the surprise element in there
all through the story (stories?).

How one writer could manage all of those different styles so well ...
-- 
sarima@teradata.com			(formerly tdatirv!sarima)
  or
Stanley.Friesen@ElSegundoCA.ncr.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: jhildeb1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Jeff Hildebrand)
Subject: Re: space opera:  definition
Reply-To: jhildeb1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Jeff Hildebrand)
Organization: Don's Merry Horde of Topologists
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 02:21:41 GMT

	Then of course there's the flippant definition someone here came up
with last summer (wish I could remember who):

	Luciano Pavoratti dying of explosive decompression.

	Just to add a little twisted humor to your day. :)

-Jeff
-- 
Jeff Hildebrand                                  jhildeb1@cc.swarthmore.edu
"Fly Heisenberg Airlines! We may not know where we are, but we're making
real good time." - _Synners_ by Pat Cadigan
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: rjk@iastate.edu (Russell J Kraemer)
Subject: Re: awful fantasy (Dragonlance SPOILERS)
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 17:56:08 GMT

In article <2A781D7B.23815@noiro.acs.uci.edu> cedman@golem.ps.uci.edu (Carl Edman) writes:
>"Patrick M. Phalen", FSAC-PMD writes
>> Don't limit them to one bad book.  Anything in the
>> _Dragonlance_ series pretty much sucked.  Besides that,
>> the premise of writing books so that TSR could introduce a
>> new world to D&D (new books, new modules, 'mo money, 'mo
>> money).  The whole premise just really bothered me. 
>
>I agree mostly. One exception which I would make though is the second  
>Dragonlance trilogy. While it basically is a fairly typical (though not  
>sub-standard) epic quest plot, the quest in this case is not one to kill the  
>evil guy and safe the universe, but one to become the evil guy, kill the gods  
>and destroy the universe. And while I think that if this quest was successful,  
>the books would have been better, on the whole I found that the twist made them  
>rather entertaining.
>
>	Carl Edman

Ack!  I would like to point out that there are two kinds of books that I read,
those that I think are good, and may just possibly enrich my life by the
reading, and your basic "Eesh, my mind is fried and I just want light junk
to keep me entertained."  I think the TSR book fall into the second 
catagory, [sp] and that does not make them bad books.  I truly enjoy some
of the books these people put out (the Dark Elf trilogy was great)
but I wont compare them to Faust. I dont think the point of these authors
is to enrich, just to entertain (and make a sh*tload of $$$$ in the
process).  I also read some Piers Anthony, so there. PHHHTTTT!!!! :)


-- 
rjk@iastate.edu                 

I think therefore I.......shoot, was I saying something?
From: chuq@Apple.COM (Chuq Von Rospach)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: _Jaran_ by Kate Elliott
Date: 23 Jul 92 17:43:17 GMT
Organization: I is a writur

mesora@leland.Stanford.EDU (Rose Adams) writes:

>	Who is Kate Elliot and how did you acquire a prepub copy of the 
>sequel to "Jaran"?

You didn't ask me directly, but I can answer this:

Kate Elliot is a fantasy writer who wrote the book Jaran, and while I don't
have a copy of the sequel to Jaran, I got my prepub copy of Jaran from the
author, because I wanted the option of reviewing it.

And if it isn't obvious by now, here's a hint: you're not going to get the
real name behind the pseudonym, if in fact it IS a pseudonym. Asking again
and again is silly, because the folks who know what's going on are pretty
clearly not going to tell.

I'm not going to tell because I promised not to. And if you'll excuse my
saying so, the 20 questions stuff is getting just a bit tired. The stuff
Kate is doing has nothing in common with any stuff published by anyone else,
which is all that matters.

-- 
Chuq "IMHO" Von Rospach, ESD Support & Training (DAL/AUX) =+= Member, SFWA
  chuq@apple.com | GEnie: MAC.BIGOT | ALink:CHUQ =+= Editor, OtherRealms
	A real SF writur with stories in ALTERNATE KENNEDYS and THE 
	  FURTHER ADVENTURES OF BATMAN, in better bookstores now!

          Painted emblems of a race, all accurst in days of yore,
       Each from his accustomed place steps into the world once more.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,alt.config
From: mcmahan@cs.unca.edu (Scott McMahan -- Genesis mailing list owner)
Subject: CFW: alt.fan.dune
Organization: University of North Carolina at Asheville
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 23:12:03 GMT

Call For Whatever -- alt anarchy.

Anybody interested in...

alt.fan.dune?!

Like Phil Collins told Sussudio, "Just say the word..."

Scott

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: bhv@areaplg2.corp.mot.com (Bronis Vidugiris)
Subject: Re: Gibson's _AGRIPPA_: not a hoax
Organization: Motorola, CCR&D, CORP, Schaumburg, IL
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 23:19:59 GMT

In article <1992Jul20.230209.19417@tronsbox.xei.com> dfrancis@tronsbox.xei.com (Dennis Heffernan) writes:

)
)	It will happen, of course.  I'd probably do it myself if I could afford
)the tools and ensure plausable deniability in court.  But do be certain that
)even if only to cover their asses, Gibson et al WILL have to make a bonafide
)effort to track down anyone distributing forgeries.

I doubt it.  There's nothing much in it for them, unless the victim has
money.  Gibson's publisher might go after a large enough target.  Museums
and collectors probably won't care a whit - to a collector, the origin is
everything and the content is nothing.  They might be available to
'authenticate' any individual copy, maybe (not sure how that works, exactly,
not being in those sorts of circles.)
From: mkkuhner@phylo.genetics.washington.edu (Mary K. Kuhner)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Errors in Covers (was Re: Hyperion covers)
Date: 24 Jul 92 21:30:17 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

The danger of boycotting books with inappropriate covers (showing black
characters as white) is that you may in fact produce pressure on authors
not to have black characters at all.  Consider three cases:

1.  Black character, black cover, distributors refuse book
2.  Black character, white cover, readers refuse book
3.  White character, white cover, no problems

Pressure towards #3 sucks even worse than towards #2.

I don't know what to recommend instead, though letters of complaint
sound like a great idea.

Mary Kuhner mkkuhner@genetics.washington.edu
Organization: Arizona State University
Date: Wednesday, 22 Jul 1992 12:30:33 MST
From: <AUDMH@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Brain size (was Re: the "cause" of homosexuality)

In article <1992Jul20.153829.139057@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu>, tes0@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu
(THOMAS EDWIN SCHMIDLIN) says:
>
>>(a bunch of previous messages that I am leaving out)
>
>No, CARTER, Reagan and Bush would not qualify for that, because Carter was an
>absolute moron.

Fully recognizing the irony in the original post, it should be noted that
while Carter was not a very good President, he was by no means a moron.  The
Navy is not in the habit of handing nuclear submarines over to morons.

David Hungerford  AUDMH@ASUACAD.BITNET  Opinions?  Mine, all mine!!!
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: xtifr@netcom.com (Chris Waters)
Subject: Re: Author Polls -- Sturgeon Results
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 92 05:20:40 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

In <92202.092330IOR@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> IOR@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Thomas Hyer) writes:

>LAST WEEK'S RESULTS (people who respond to polls don't read Sturgeon):

Well, actually, in my case, I thought about all the excellent books that
Sturgeon has written, realized that there's no way I could rank them
relative to each other, since so many of them are so different, and good
for different reasons, that I decided to give the Sturgeon poll a pass. 
I couldn't formulate an answer that matched the ballot format.  :-)
-- 
Chris Waters    | the insane don't | NOBODY for President!
xtifr@netcom.COM| need disclaimers | Because Nobody's perfect!!
From: michi@ptcburp.ptcbu.oz.au (Michael Henning)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Asprin's "Myth" books
Summary: Need info about Myth books
Date: 29 Jul 92 23:36:05 GMT
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corporation

I recently noticed a the "Myth" book series by Robert (?) Asprin in a book
shop. From the blurb on the cover and the presentation, it seems that they
are similar to Pratchett's Disc World series, if not a rip-off of these.

Can anyone tell me whether they are worth reading. Up to the same standard
as Pratchett?

								Michi.
-- 
      -m------- Michael Henning                 +61 75 950255
    ---mmm----- Pyramid Technology              +61 75 722475 FAX
  -----mmmmm--- Research Park, Bond University  michi@ptcburp.ptcbu.oz.au
-------mmmmmmm- Gold Coast, Q 4229, AUSTRALIA   uunet!munnari!ptcburp.oz!michi
From: swf@teradata.com (Stanley Friesen)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Keyes' "Flowers for Algernon"
Date: 28 Jul 92 17:13:31 GMT
Reply-To: swf@tdat.teradata.com (Stanley Friesen)
Organization: NCR Teradata Database Business Unit

In article <young.712301210@s1.elec.uq.oz.au> young@elec.uq.oz.au (Steven Young) writes:
|Just re-read Daniel Keyes' "Flowers for Algernon" (1959?).
|(Do you hate 'Just read ..., and thought it was brilliant' posts?  Sorry)
|
|I can remember reading it years ago, but I think I read a condensed
|(short story/novella) version.  Could this be true?  The novel was much
|more satisfying.

Yes, I believe the condensed form is called "Charli".
And, yes, the full length novel is better.
-- 
sarima@teradata.com			(formerly tdatirv!sarima)
  or
Stanley.Friesen@ElSegundoCA.ncr.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: mfriedma@uucp (Michael Friedman)
Subject: Re: The Moat around God's Eye
Organization: Oracle Corporation
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 22:57:02 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <1992Jul24.164152.10280@wpi.WPI.EDU} jsinger@ascoli.WPI.EDU (Joel Singer) writes:
}Actually, this idea of hiding out in the Oort cloud might prove a possible way
}for an enterprising (read:  Crazy Eddie) master to try and break the Cycles.
}The Oort cloud may not be habitable, but say one master decides to send his
}entire "family," including himself, on a long round-trip cometary orbit 
}through the Oort cloud.  (They have the suspended-animation techniques from
}the original light-sail probe.)  The master times his ship to come back in the
}middle of the Moties' most savage period of breakdown, whereupon with his own
}loyal Warriors he takes over the planet.  His last step is to impose the birth
}control hormonal shots for all other Masters except himself and direct, loyal
}progeny.  He's got the entire planet under his thumb, with control of the
}Warriors, mediators, and all masters.  Bingo.  Cycles broken.

Until his own loyal progeny fill up the planet and start fighting over
how many reproduction slots each one gets.

After all, do you think they haven't done that?
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am not an official Oracle spokesman.  I speak for myself and no one else.
From: corwin@ensta.ensta.fr (Gilles Gravier)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: SUMMARY: Books From Alien Perspective.
Date: 28 Jul 92 11:42:05 GMT
Organization: Ensta, Paris, France
NNTP-Posting-Host: ensta.ensta.fr


	There is a book by Alan Dean FOSTER that is called "Nor Cristal Tears".
It is a story of a meeting between human race and alien race... The beginning of
the book is truly fascinating, as it is narated from the aliens point of view.
There are no humans at that time in the book... they crop up some time after, 
and even after that, there always remains that feeling of reading a book meant
for another species...

	Anybody have comments on this?

	Gilles.
-- 
 This message has been brought to you by Gilles GRAVIER - corwin@ensta.fr
                       ***** Amber Forever! *****
    I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am
       sure, you realize,  that what you heard is not what I meant.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: bd380@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Francesco Marcolla)
Subject: Re: Jack Vance: Madouc
Reply-To: bd380@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Francesco Marcolla)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 06:35:05 GMT


In a previous article, dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig) says:

>Let me be the far-from-first to note that "Madouc" is an excellent
>work of fantasy.  In style, it is very similar to much of Vance's
>better science fiction:  Almost all of the characters are urbane
>and well-spoken, many implausibly so, but the pleasure which good
>dialogue brings far outweighs the loss in characterization.  (The
>characters are distinguished by what they have to say, rather than
>by how they say it.)  

   Yes! But the book has a big fault nonetheless: it is twice as thick as
it should have been, given what it has to say, especially in comparison with
the previous two volumes, which were full of characters, plots and subplots.

>The book stands alone, so not having read the other Lyonesse
>books is not a problem.  

  Except when it comes to the last section of the book, in which all of the
dangling plots get to a (long awaited) conclusion.

Ciao,
-Franz
-- 
*                     /  INTERNET: ele9102@cdc835.cdc.polimi.it		      *
* Francesco Marcolla <             bd380@cleveland.freenet.edu		      *
*                     \  IRCNICKs: Mork, _2112_, Beldin                       *

From: ddb@tdkt.kksys.com (David Dyer-Bennet)
Sender: FredGate@tdkt.kksys.com