HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.music.early
Subject: RE: Singing Early Music
From: "Dr. Jim Feiszli" <jfeiszli@SILVER.SDSMT.EDU>
Date: 19 Aug 1992 13:17:31 -0600
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

I've been reading all this discussion about vibrato with some interest.  I am a
professional choral director with the usual or even better than average back-
ground in vocal training and (even more importantly) vocal physiology.  My
main area of expertise in choral music is early Renaissance and Gregorian
chant.
 
First of all, most amateur (as well as many professional) singers sing with
far too much glottal (larygeal) musculature and not enough breath support.
This state evolves in the adolescent years when the breathing apparatus is not
yet fully developed and the young singer is not instructed well in the impor-
tance of the breath.  It is this imbalance of opposing forces (too much pressure
at the vocal folds and not enough air pressure from good breath support) that
causes the majority of problems in older singers.
 
A voice which is producing healthy tone will have some vibrato.  If there is
no vibrato present, there is probably too much laryngeal [mis-spelled above,
sorry] force.  The "ideal" sound for early music (if there is such a thing)
is an aesthetic developed from the fact that pre-pubescent males sang the
higher voice parts up until the mid to late Baroque and even later in sacred
choral music (Bruckner's choir used boys for the soprano and alto parts).  It
takes musculature action around the folds to "freeze" the pitch and keep it
from vibrating in an adult voice.  Boys' vocal cords are smaller, thinner and
don't have the mass that even adult female cords do.  Therefore the sound is
less full and less likely to have a big vibrato ... but a well-trained boy
singer WILL have a vibrato, just not the same as a nineteenth-century operatic
soprano.
 
It is dangerous for someone to try and sing without any vibrato unless they
have excellent vocal technique.  I've seen too many colleagues ruin the voices
of their singers by demanding from them a sound which they were either un-
trained for, or incapable of.  Usually, of course, it's the other way around.
Many young voices are pushed to develop a big operatic tone before the body
has fully developed.  THAT'S where the techniques are ingrained that cause
huge wobbly vibratos and intonation problems in later life.
 
A tone which is produced well will be able to sing with little vibrato and that
should be a tone which has a precise pitch center.  A voice without vibrato
by definition is a more tensely produced sound and will have intonation
problems (because the pressure around the vocal folds will cause them to
vibrate faster or slower than what the ear is telling them to do).
 
Besides, as one of my old voice teachers (an opera guy, of course) once used
to say, "Play me a tape made in 1500 that proves they sang without vibrato and
then I'll believe you".
 
James D. Feiszli, DMA
Director of Music
South Dakota School of Mines and Technology
From: efosbroo@axion.bt.co.uk (Elisabeth Fosbrooke)
Newsgroups: rec.music.early
Subject: Re: Singing Early Music
Date: 19 Aug 92 12:20:14 GMT
Reply-To: efosbroo@axion.bt.co.uk (Elisabeth Fosbrooke)
Organization: British Telecom Research Labs


In article <1992Aug18.192010.13174@news2.cis.umn.edu>, jill@gopher.ccbr.umn.edu (Jill Hollifield) writes:
|> I am a vocalist (soprano) with 10 years of operatic training.  My voice is
|> quite light, but I have a heavy natural vibrato.  I am interested in
|> auditioning for some early music choral groups in my area, and my question
|> is:  Is it necessary to have that pure, vibrato-less, "white" sound to
|> produce an authentic early choral music sound?  Any thoughts from other
|> singers, conductors, historians, or just interested/opinionated listeners
|> would be greatly appreciated.
|> 
|> Thanks!

I sing with Philip Thorby's amateur choral group, Capella Antiqua. (For people over-the-pond who may not have heard of Philip, he is head of Early Music at Trinity, and can be heard on Radio 3 with his professional group Musica Antiqua of London - just to establish his credentials.) 

Philip certainly goes for a vibrato-less sound in general. However, he does occasionally ask for colour or warmth, or even a trace of vibrato - depends on the music and how he wishes to interpret it. We have to produce quite a dynamic range, and always with clarity and precision.

My own opinions:

1. Whatever vibrato you have, you need to be able to control it.

2. Blend is VERY important; the rest of the group will probably sing without vibrato. If you   	don't blend with whatever is happening around you, it will be very obvious and ruin the sound.

3. Early music usually needs a very precise sound; vibrato blurs the sound and muddies the texture (so does slightly-off intonation, of course).

I'd suggest you find an early-music teacher and ask for a consultation. It may be easier than you think to sing without vibrato.

Slight change of subject - 
I have a suspicion that heavy vibrato can lead to wobble in later years. Does anyone else have an opinion on this? And how can you prevent wobble?

Elisabeth
Newsgroups: rec.music.early
Subject: RE: help with Monteverdi
From: DANIELB@DEPAUW.BITNET
Date: 16 Aug 1992 23:53:30 -0500
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

With what recordings are you refering. . .   Daniel13
From: jane@bohra.cpg.oz.au (Jane Lean)
Newsgroups: rec.music.early
Subject: Re: Singing Early Music
Date: 21 Aug 92 03:04:46 GMT
Organization: Computer Power Software

In article <1992Aug19.204650.29933@panix.com> simona@panix.com (Simona Nass) writes:
> In <01GNQOOX64UG8WWXOK@depauw.BITNET> DANIELB@DEPAUW.BITNET writes:
>
>>I know I prefer pure sound or the voice, esp. that
>>of a male soprano or a treble.  Granted, there are places where it sounds nice:
>>Kirkby and the Tavnor Concort (name?) and their recording of Purcell's " Dido
>>and Aeneas " comes to mind.  I believe it is the best recording I have heard
>>yet.  I is so wonderfully pure.
>
> Another wonderful example of a wonderfully light, vibrato-less voice is the
> male who sings the descant (?) in the King's College recording of the
> Allegri Miserere. Those high Cs sound positively other-worldly. I, alas,
> have overdosed, but I was in shock the first time I heard it. It's
> beautiful. -S.
> -- 
Do you mean Roy Goodman in the 1964(?) recording.  I have that, and love it.
There is another KCC recording of the Allegri with another boy soprano... I've
not heard it (and can't remember the name of the soloist).

The Allegri is definitely something I prefer with a boy soprano rather than
a female soloist?  Anyone agree?  (Mind you, the Tallis Scholars recording
_is_ fantastic!).

Jane

-- 
Jane Lean                                                 jane@bohra.cpg.oz.au
CP Software Export Pty Ltd                               Phone:  +61-3-8230213
ACN 006 640 133  (A Division         "They're gonna hang some new stars in the 
of the Computer Power Group)          heavens tonight."     -- Laurie Anderson
From: BGARFINK@UCS.INDIANA.EDU (Beth Garfinkel)
Newsgroups: rec.music.early
Subject: RE: Singing Early Music
Date: 19 Aug 92 14:41:12 GMT
Article-I.D.: AEARN.EARLYM-L%92082002412624
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

For singing in early choral groups, you probably do need to tone down your
vibrato.  For singing early vocal chamber music, it is more necessary to be
able to use throat articulations to produce rapid passagework, but the two
tend to go together, so if you can develop the passagework, vibrato becomes
much lessj of a problem.
								Beth
From: gadfly@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (Gadfly)
Newsgroups: rec.music.early
Subject: Re: Singing Early Music
Summary: Agreed.
Date: 19 Aug 92 21:39:34 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <9208182110.AA20376@unl.edu>, jrussell@UNLINFO.UNL.EDU
(john russell) writes:
> > I am a vocalist (soprano) with 10 years of operatic training.  My voice is
> > quite light, but I have a heavy natural vibrato.  I am interested in
> > auditioning for some early music choral groups in my area, and my question
> > is:  Is it necessary to have that pure, vibrato-less, "white" sound to
> > produce an authentic early choral music sound?  Any thoughts from other
> > singers, conductors, historians, or just interested/opinionated listeners
> > would be greatly appreciated.
  
> This will be of no help at all, but:
> It depends on:
> The period the music is from;
> The type of music (sacred or secular);
> Who it was originally intended for (soprano, boy soprano, castrato,
> conutertenor);
> and finally, who you ask.

And if you ask me...
Most pre-Classical vocal music, and even some later opera
(e.g., Rossini), was originally sung sans vibrato, or else with
vibrato used only as an ornament.  So that's what they did *then*.
As to what they do *now*, most "historically informed" choruses
sing straight.  So if you do not, you will stick out and mess up
the texture.  And a lot of the madrigal literature, especially
Gesualdo, utilizes extremely close harmonies whose delicate textures
can be easily undone.  Affect in early music was achieved through
other means--dissonances, dynamics, ornaments--so vibrato may be
downright distracting.

               *** ***
Ken Perlow   ***** *****
19 Aug 92   ****** ******   2 Fructidor An CC
            *****   *****   gadfly@ihlpa.ATT.COM
             ** ** ** **
...L'AUDACE!   *** ***   TOUJOURS DE L'AUDACE!  ENCORE DE L'AUDACE!
From: "elliott chapin" <elliott.chapin@canrem.com>
Newsgroups: rec.music.early
Subject: singing early music
Date: 19 Aug 92 19:12:53 EST
Reply-To: "elliott chapin" <elliott.chapin@canrem.com>
Distribution: rec
Organization: Canada Remote Systems

Jill,

I suggest that you look more at solo & small ensemble singing, where you
can keep better track of how your previous (operatic vocal) training
relates to experiments you may try.  Consider that vibrato effects tuning,
and that colour need not involve vibrato.  Alexander Kipnis said that
colour is built on a straight sound.  (I studied with him in the late
60s).  A vibratoless voice can in fact be extremely colourful; I dislike
equating "white" with "vibratoless."

Elliott Chapin
---
  DeLuxe 1.12 #4315  elliott.chapin@canrem.com
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario/Detroit, MI
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
From: miner@panix.com (Aline)
Newsgroups: rec.music.cd
Subject: Wanted: Headhunter CD5 by Front 242
Keywords: Front 242
Date: 19 Aug 92 14:04:13 GMT
Article-I.D.: panix.1992Aug19.140413.16677
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC

Hello,

If anyone knows of where I can find the Front 242 Headhunter CD5,
or is willing to part with theirs please send me mail.



Thanks,

ed
miner@panix.com
Newsgroups: unh.misc,rec.music.cd
From: M_WUDALI@unhh.unh.edu (Mahadev   Wudali)
Subject: U2 (08/23/92) ONE - ticket for sale
Organization: University of New Hampshire
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 15:03:28 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.12

Hi there,

	I am posting this from a friends account. So please reply by e-mail to
me directly. My email address is

		deepak@mitech.com

I have a ticket to the U2 concert that I want to get rid of.

Section 318 row 6  Gate 13
Date: 23 August 1992

Call me or leave a message @ (508) 635-9760


Deepak Agrawal
deepak@mitech.com
Newsgroups: rec.music.cd
From: serge@dgbt.doc.ca (Serge Ah Hee)
Subject: Dune Soundtrack
Organization: The Communications Research Centre
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 19:12:10 GMT

Hi to all!
	Does anybody know if the Dune soundtrack is available on cd?

Thanks in advance...


-- 
Serge Ah-Hee                  "Most troubles come from the fact that people 
serge@dgbt.doc.ca		take for granted of what they have, and 
				only care for what they want."
My opinions are mine only.
Newsgroups: rec.music.cd
From: aa595@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Dan Duvall)
Subject: rare JETHRO TULL CDs wanted - update/corrections
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 19:30:28 GMT


I'm seeking the following Tull CDs:

   TITLE                                 Catalog #

---Sackful of Trousersnakes    (2-CD)    OMBS 098
---When Minstrels Come to Play (2-CD)    ????????
---Live CD                               2035DVMOR
   [note: this is different from the other CD called "Live" (#SR 009)]
---Bricks on the Road                    ACS 034
---Salmon Rising                         ACS 033

If you have access to these, let me know. I'll buy them
or trade other Tull goodies for them.

The "Eternal Thoughts" album I mentioned last time is
NOT on CD as I thought: it's a vinyl recording of the
1992 Dortmund show. Might include "Truck Stop Runner,"
the 1991 unreleased studio track... I'm not sure.

-- 
* aa595@cleveland.freenet.edu * Dan Doooovall *
*  feared foe of fruit flies  * ///////////// *
From: david@roth-music.com (David A. Roth)
Newsgroups: rec.music.cd
Subject: Re: question about music promotion
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 01:01:45 EST
Organization: DAVID A. ROTH MUSIC
Reply-To: david@roth-music.com (David A. Roth)
X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.5v4


In article <BsInKD.A9n@news.cso.uiuc.edu> (rec.music.cd), pms26964@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Phil Scopes) writes:
> 
> Since someone in this group has raised the question of producing an album
> and shopping it to record companies, I have a related question.  Let's say
> you have some material that you feel good about, and happen to have a million
> bucks hidden in some Swiss bank account.  Would a record company be willing
> to produce and promote the album if you pay all the expenses?  In particular,
> let's say you want to do pop music.  Would it be possible to get, say,
> Arista records to provide the resources if the independent writer put up
> the capital?

The big question that comes to mind is, why would someone care to
seek this type of business arrangement?  You could also rent a concert
hall and fill it with paid extras to sit in the audience to cheer
on cue.  You could also buy airtime on music video channels and radio
to have the song(s) played.

The truth is that if you have a product or service good enough for
a company to sell it by adding their name to it then you should be
able to work out an agreement that is good for both sides.

David
david@roth-music.com
From: wbs@mred.llnl.gov (William B. Schaefer IV)
Newsgroups: rec.music.cd
Subject: Tangerine Dream Revisited
Summary: Differences in versions of Tyger?
Date: 13 Aug 92 16:08:33 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory

I just replaced my copy of Tyger.  The new copy was purchased via Noteworthy.
After first listening, it seems that this version is quite different.  For
lack of a better phrase is seems like more of a "Dance Mix"; *very* heavy
bass.  The liner notes make no mention of a remix and the release date seems
to be the same...

Has anyone else noticed this?

wbs
Newsgroups: rec.music.cd
From: danielh@sequent.com (Daniel Hobbs)
Subject: Are these soundtracks on CD??
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 18:07:09 GMT

I'd like to know if the following sountracks are available on CD, and if
so, where I might obtain them. 

	Little Big Man
	Cotton Club
	Bugsy Malone

Thanks in advance!

Dan Hobbs
danileh@sequent.com
From: wombat@claris.com (Scott Lindsey)
Newsgroups: rec.music.cd
Subject: Re: Renaissance on CD
Date: 16 Aug 92 03:13:55 GMT
Organization: Claris Corporation, Vancouver WA
Wombat: yes
Number: 6879

In article <1992Aug15.124141.23035@panix.com>, schuster@panix.com (Michael Schuster) writes:
> 
> Bzzzzzt!!!! You have the =wrong= pressing of Azure D'Or.
> The Thunderbolt pressing is TERRIBLE! Muddy, bass-heavy, treble-shy.
> The one to get is the Japanese version on Sire/Warner-Pioneer.

Yeah, unfortunately, guess which one was released a year or so before the other?

--
Scott Lindsey <wombat@claris.com>
Newsgroups: rec.music.cd
From: jtl@ddsw1.mcs.com (Joe Lynn)
Subject: Re: Renaissance on CD
Organization: Macro Computer Solutions, Inc.
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 02:16:44 GMT
X-Disclaimer:  Material posted in this article is the sole responsibility of
                the poster and does not represent MCSNet or the system owners.

In article <1992Aug15.124141.23035@panix.com> schuster@panix.com (Michael Schuster) writes:
> ...
>The Thunderbolt pressing is TERRIBLE! Muddy, bass-heavy, treble-shy.
>The one to get is the Japanese version on Sire/Warner-Pioneer.


Correct.  I've got 'em both, and I'm thinking about using the UK (Thuderbolt)
CD of _Azure d'or_ as a coaster.


Joe Lynn
-- 
jtl@ddsw1.mcs.com
Newsgroups: rec.music.cd,alt.rock-n-roll
From: schuster@panix.com (Michael Schuster)
Subject: Lighthouse
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 01:13:50 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix & Internet, NYC

This is a follow-up to a brief discussion a month or so ago.

I finally got my hands on both Lighthouse CD's. (Lighthouse was
a 70's Canadian jazz-rock band). It took quite a search and a
1-month back order from a Canadian mail order dealer, but it
was worth it.

Some quick comments:

On the live album, it's obvious that the original vinyl LP snipped and
pasted pieces of stage chatter all over the place; witness the fact
that they appear in different placed on the CD! Also, the original
intro, which went something like:

	"And now please welcome some cats from Canada. And you know, we
        all feel prety good about Canada right now.

was removed on the CD reissue. (This was 1972, and the young audience
empathasized with draft dodgers who fled to safe haven in Canada).
Also Skip's comment that "we gonna play our ass off" was omitted from
the intro. Don't know why ... Also the order of songs on the LP/CD
was obviously not that of the actual concert.

Audio was amazingly good for what was admittedly a simple two-track
recording from the audience.

'Sunny Days Again' (the best of Lighthouse) was all I'd hoped it'd be.
It contains just about every Lighthouse track I ever cared about
(16 in all) which means they ignored all the RCA releases and included
7 tracks from the landmark 'One Fine Morning' LP (with a typo:
Silver Bird is mis-identified as coming from 'Sunny Days'; it's not ..
it's the opening track on 'One Fine Morning').

In spite of its being a true digital remix, the audio quality is
variable at best. Better than my old Evolution vinyl LP's, but
still a bit disappointing. I guess this is due to the quality of
the masters themselves (or lack of). Many tracks, even the later
ones, lack any bass presence at all; and the earlier ones sound
muddy.

Anyway, for those interested:

THE BEST OF LIGHTHOUSE - SUNNY DAYS AGAIN    Denon (Canada) CAN 9002 (1989)
LIGHTHOUSE LIVE!                             Denon (Canada) CAN 9010 (1991)



-- 
_______________________________Mike Schuster________________________________
NY Pub. Access UNIX/Internet: schuster@panix.com | 70346.1745@CompuServe.COM
The Portal (R) System: schuster@cup.portal.com   | MCI Mail,GEnie: MSCHUSTER
Newsgroups: rec.music.cd
From: os9duane@gkcl.ists.ca (Duane DOUCET)
Subject: Re: Planet P & Tony Carey
Reply-To: os9duane@gkcl.UUCP (Duane DOUCET)
Organization: y
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 04:23:38 GMT

In article <183115@pyramid.pyramid.com> craigs@pyrtech.pyramid.com (Craig 
Shipley) writes:
>In article <4830@miramon.lulea.trab.se> lehe@lulea.trab.se (Lennart 
>Hedenstr|m) writes:
>>Correct me if I am wrong but I have some foggy memory of reading that
>>Tony Carey once was a member of Ritchie Blackmore's Rinbow, playing
>>keyboards.
>
>You are absolutly 100% correct! Tony Carey played the keys on Blackmore's
>Rainbow release titled _RAINBOW_RISING_. He may have appeared on other
>releases (I think he was also on the very first Rainbow release, but not
>certain of the fact) but , as _RR_ is the only disc I own by  BR, can't 
>be certain. Rest of the 'Net?
>
>
>Craig Shipley
>

    Along with _Rising_, Tony Carey is also listed as kedboardist on their
live album _On Stage_.  None of the people are listed in the CD for _Bent Out
Of Shape_ and, other than _Blackmore's Rainbow_ and _LLRNR_, I don't have any
others (he didn't play on either of those - two other guys did).

                                              Duane Doucet
                                              os9duane@gkcl.ists.ca

Newsgroups: rec.music.cd
From: eddie@wariat.org (Eddie Anthony)
Subject: Meat Loaf followup
Organization: Akademia Pana Kleksa, Public Access Uni* Site
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 10:06:48 GMT


As a follow up to my Meat Loaf request, let me add this little
side note. The reason I am looking for this is that my band is going
to add some "show" material where our singer will do Elvis, Chubby
Checker, etc.... My part of the show will be Elton John and Meat Loaf,
since I am a big guy like Brother Loaf. I want to do the song "Read 'em 
and Weep" as part of my medley, thus the search for Dead Ringer. It would
also work out if anyone has a copy of the solo album that Jim Steinman put
out of the stuff Meat Loaf didn't use which also contained that tune. I would
like to find Dead Ringer on CD and have a couple of leads, but for now the
big thing is finding that one tune by either artist so I can start the long
process of sequencing the piano and string parts. If anyone has that album
by Jim Steinman, I would like to get that album in its entirety so I would 
be quite happy to send a blank tape for it.

I DO draw the line, however, at listening to the Barry Manilow version.
There isn't a song in the world important enough to me to listen to Barry
Manilow. One of my passions in life is to perform an act of arson with
Barry Manilow albums as kindling.....
 

                      Eddie Anthony....eddie@wariat.org
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Why is it that with all the advanced medical technology available they still
can't come up with a hospital gown that doesn't show the whole world your butt?
From: mzickar@s.psych.uiuc.edu (Mike Zickar)
Newsgroups: rec.music.cd
Subject: Re: Pet Sounds CD from BMG
Date: 20 Aug 92 21:26:40 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.BtAwwH.LnH
Organization: UIUC Department of Psychology

galuska@oz.asel.udel.edu (Scott Galuska) writes:


>If my memory serves me well (oops, wrong newsgroup :-)), the Beach Boys
>_Pet Sounds_ CD was issued with bonus tracks.  Question- does the _Pet 
>Sounds_ CD available from the BMG CD Club also contain bonus tracks?  The
>reason I ask is that those CDs that contain bonus tracks are supposed to
>have a special mark in the BMG catalogue, and _Pet Sounds_ does not.

>-- 
>Scott Galuska
>Dept. of Computer & Info. Science        "There's no crying in baseball!"
>Univ of Delaware
>galuska@asel.udel.edu

Yes, the BMG copy does have two or three bonus tracks.  I am not sure what the
tracks are.  If I recall correctly one track is simply the Beach Boys
harmonizing together while the other track is a song not on the original album.

Maybe BMG didn't put a special mark by the CD listing because the cassette 
version may include the bonus tracks as well.  Who knows?

Peace,
Mike Zickar
From: wbs@mred.llnl.gov (William B. Schaefer IV)
Newsgroups: rec.music.cd
Subject: Richard Wright "Wet Dream" (Wanted)
Summary: Where to find...
Date: 13 Aug 92 16:11:27 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory

Does anyone know if the recording "Wet Dream" by Richard Wright (Pink Floyd)
is available on CD?

Thanks,

wbs
Newsgroups: rec.music.cd
From: lorne.murphy@rose.com (lorne murphy)
Subject: STEVE HACKETT
Organization: Rose Media Inc, Toronto, Ontario.
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 08:33:43 GMT
X-Gated-By: Usenet <==> RoseMail Gateway (v1.70)


Date Entered: 08-13-92 03:26
Does anyone have a track listing w/times for the following S.Hackett
CD's?:

TIL WE HAVE FACES
MOMENTUM

Thanks

Lorne

%It's been a long long long long time since I held anybody - since I
loved anyone....%  Genesis 1981
---
   RoseMail 2.00 : Usenet: Rose Media - Hamilton (416) 575-5363
Newsgroups: rec.music.cd