HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Fran.O'gorman@f94.n272.z1.fidonet.org (Fran O'gorman)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.comp.literacy
Subject: Re: msgs here lately?
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 92 09:59:28 PST
Organization: FidoNet node 1:272/94 - Monroe Electronic M, Monroe NY

->> If anyone out there reads/sees this could they reply please?
 BL>  
 BL> Fran, your message got out!  The same thing has happened to me.  We
 BL> went a few weeks with no update.  My sysop had no explaination at
 BL> first.  Now I cant remember if he did something or not.  Hope you 
 BL> get this.  

Thanks Brian, I think my sysop completely lost the link as it was
a few months where I hadn't seen any msgs here but happily I seem
to be re-connected... :-)  Oh and yes, as you can see I did get
yours. :-)

--Fran
  

     


--  
uucp: uunet!m2xenix!puddle!272!94!Fran.O'gorman
Internet: Fran.O'gorman@f94.n272.z1.fidonet.org
From: Bradley.Kelly@f628.n712.z3.fidonet.org (Bradley Kelly)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.comp.literacy
Subject: Re: msgs here lately?
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 92 21:33:02 PST
Organization: FidoNet node 3:712/628 - Education Database, Sydney University

G'day Fran!

 > Haha, my 18 yr old (son) is already convinced I'm a nerd...

:-) I get that sometimes ...

 > will you be visiting New York by any chance?  We're

Probably .. actually, I've applied  to a couple of unis in NY, and in the 
general New England area.

 > Haha, are you a student yourself or a teacher?  (Mum could be

I'm sixteen .. and don't intend to be a teacher! Maybe Comp Sci or Vet Sci?? 
If you (your class) want to send a ask a few questions .. go ahead. I 
might not be ably to reply instantly, as exams are just around the corner .. 
but I'll still reply :-)

Take Care, Brad  
 

--  
uucp: uunet!m2xenix!puddle!3!712!628!Bradley.Kelly
Internet: Bradley.Kelly@f628.n712.z3.fidonet.org
From: Kevin.Mccluskey@f2.n255.z1.fidonet.org (Kevin Mccluskey)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.comp.literacy
Subject: Re: COMPUTERS
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 09:04:21 PST
Organization: FidoNet node 1:255/2 - NEWBED, Fredericton NB

I have a 9600 baud modem at work and run a 386 20 mhz that is slowly driving 
me crazy.  Bob Dylan!  Wow I remenber when I was your age he was where it was 
at!!!  If I can still say that.  I saw him recently on TV but he had problems 
remenbering the words?  How was the concert?  I am still looking doe a com 
pkg that I can live with.  Pcplus is not it but I do like version 2.0.  I am 
also looking for a good defragmenter for my hard drive.  My files get chopped 
up over time and slow my hard drive down.  I have used Mace and Norton 
but....well they both are showing their age.  Need something with a bit of 
speed!!!!! I watched the debates.  Entertaining, I must say.  I guess I would 
go with Clinton and hope for change for the better......

--  
uucp: uunet!m2xenix!puddle!255!2!Kevin.Mccluskey
Internet: Kevin.Mccluskey@f2.n255.z1.fidonet.org
From: Kay.Haberlach@f921.n720.z6.fidonet.org (Kay Haberlach)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.comp.literacy
Subject: Hypercard programming
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 92 18:15:00 PST
Organization: FidoNet node 6:720/921 - World Data Exchange, Taipei Taiwan

Hi!  Is there anybody who knows the correct scripting to link a Hypercard stack with an application.  I vaguely remember hearing it involved a doMenu command.  I've exhausted my limited knowledge of scripting and hope somebody can help.



--  
uucp: uunet!m2xenix!puddle!6!720!921!Kay.Haberlach
Internet: Kay.Haberlach@f921.n720.z6.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: k12.ed.comp.literacy
From: dah2e@curry.edschool.Virginia.EDU (Deborah Alston Hale)
Subject: ClarisWorks for VA teachers
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 04:25:48 GMT

The book CLARISWORKS BASICS is now available.  Written in easy
to understand, simple language, educators will be able to
create wordprocessing documents, design layouts for
newsletters, integrate graphics, and use the Virginia's PEN
network for communication. CLARISWORKS BASICS would be a
wonderful addition to any educators library.  If interested in
purchasing a copy, please send an email message with your name
and mailing address to:

lh6h@poe.acc.virginia.edu    (or)
dah2e@uva386.schools.virginia.edu
From: Lawrence.Chen@f3002.n134.z1.fidonet.org (Lawrence Chen)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.comp.literacy
Subject: Re: Hello/Elementary Computer Cirriculum
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 92 08:46:00 PST
Organization: FidoNet node 1:134/3002 - Lunatic Haven BBS, Medicine Hat Alta

In a message dated 11 Oct 92  20:38:33, Jesse Williamson wrote:

 JW>  Thank you for your response! It is good to meet you!

 JW>  I (again, not being an educator, programming computers for a 
 JW> hobby/future job possiblity) think that Pascal would probably be the 
 JW> easier of the two to teach to start with. However, I also feel that C
 JW> and C++ should be offered: Is the purpose of getting an education not
 JW> to gain familiarity with the tools of today/tommorow? 

 JW>  Since you program for a living, I would be very curious to see your 
 JW> answer to this question: Do you think that some of these languages
 JW> are not offered in schools because qualified people won't work for a 
 JW> teacher's pay? Some other reason? 

It isn't necessary to learn a specific language inorder to know how to program, there's no way to tell exactly what language your going to need to program in when you get out there.

But knowing what structured programming is important, since its a common element in most programming languages used in industry.  Some exposure the objects and data abstraction might be nice, but these may be difficult concepts to complete get across.

I seen two kinds of postsecondary education systems....one is where they expect you to learn every single language in the world, so when you get out and they ask if you can program in some language....you can say yes.

Or where they teach you some of the standard languages (Fortran, C, Pascal, Asm) and emphasize common elements like structured programming....even if the structured constructs don't exist in the language....and if you come across a language you don't know...you can learn it.

Are programming languages not being offered in schools?  Was the school that I went to the exception and not the rule.  Defined qualified person in a school. Maybe I know more about programming computers than most of my computer teachers I had in school....but your not going to see me teaching because I can't teach.  Though some might argue that there are teachers that can't teach either....I won't get into that.  I'm in a profession where I have to know what I can and can't do, so I know that I would make




 a horrible teacher so I don't attempt to do it.

And, contrary to what some people say, I didn't get turned down from continuing to an Education Degree after I finished Engineering.....I got turned down from taking more Engineering.....I wanted to take another major inaddition to Computers (like Mechanical)....since near the end I was thinking that I didn't want to be stuck programming computers all my life.


--  
uucp: uunet!m2xenix!puddle!134!3002!Lawrence.Chen
Internet: Lawrence.Chen@f3002.n134.z1.fidonet.org
From: Fran.O'gorman@f94.n272.z1.fidonet.org (Fran O'gorman)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.comp.literacy
Subject: Re: ELEMENTARY COMPUTER
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 92 12:49:36 PST
Organization: FidoNet node 1:272/94 - Monroe Electronic M, Monroe NY

Hi Phil,     
     
PS>trying to figure out the "where and when" of teaching
PS>beginning programming languages such as LOGO and maybe,

Thought I might share a little of what we did with logo and more
specifically what we learned...

My own experience with kindergarten is that I'd wait...we only
have half day kindergarten here and their morning or afternoon is
already crammed full... most of them can handle a form of logo but
occasionally you get a hyper type and with the expensive equipment
you can't afford that and rather have it be a negative experience
I'd just wait... my opinion anyway...

If you DO include kindergarten I wouldn't get them into direct
commands right away but create a procedure that's interactive
where they can move the turtle around with phemonic keystrokes
such as -f moving the turtle forward r turning him right l turning
him left b backing him up... etc... (you can add penup and pendown
later as u and d)

Later as their reading and writing skills improve you can teach
them the direct commands... as they get older... about 3rd grade
they can start saving procedures which they'll utilize (if they
can each have their own disk it would be ideal).

All the while you can be feeding them with challenges and projects
within these parameters...

I mentioned in another msg creating flowers for spring... each
student's can be different and I would encourage that ...
snowflakes for winter... we did a map to the post office from
where we were in the school building planning the steps the turtle
would need to take.  Around 5th grade... the interactive commands
can be introduced where you can get the computer to echo or use
what you say and handle inputs as strings... auto-poetry or madlib
type projects could be created...

Some kids will take off with it and some will need more help but
the final product will be engaging enough that the kids will be
giving you their best effort, so I wouldn't begrudge the kid who
does need a little more help...

Encourage them to think of other projects... they have great
ideas!  That's the benefit of a language over an application...
there are no limits and the possibilities are still being
discovered!  :-)

This is all assuming a group no larger than 12 and with no more
than 2 per machine (ideally each having his/her own though).

--Fran


--  
uucp: uunet!m2xenix!puddle!272!94!Fran.O'gorman
Internet: Fran.O'gorman@f94.n272.z1.fidonet.org
From: Ronald.Kellett@f296.n260.z1.fidonet.org (Ronald Kellett)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.comp.literacy
Subject: Re: COMPUTERS
Date: Thu, 08 Oct 92 23:02:00 PST
Organization: FidoNet node 1:260/296 - Techroom, Honeoye NY

 Kevin,
    As you know we in U.S.A. get exited over everything Religion,politics,
 cars, women, Etc. You NAME it and we are excited about it. I am seventeen
 (just) So am about your daughters age. Gt-Power,Telix,ProComm are all $40 and
up but they come w/ everything (commercial), even host mode, DOS shell,DOS
 Commands, 

--  
uucp: uunet!m2xenix!puddle!260!296!Ronald.Kellett
Internet: Ronald.Kellett@f296.n260.z1.fidonet.org
From: Fran.O'gorman@f94.n272.z1.fidonet.org (Fran O'gorman)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.comp.literacy
Subject: Re: MSGS HERE LATELY?
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 92 09:54:49 PST
Organization: FidoNet node 1:272/94 - Monroe Electronic M, Monroe NY

 CN> Fran...:)  Seems to be lots of activity on here in the past while. 
 CN>  You might try the Kid Chat area for penpal activity.  Carol

At the moment my sysop doesn't get that (I'm working on him
though! <g>) but if I learn of a class that is interested it's
possible we could work something out in any case I think... I had
a class from my school writing to a class in Japan 2 years ago and
it was great fun...we established the contact via the computer but
since (at the time) both schools had limited modem access we
carried on the actual writing through ordinary mail-- but in some
ways that worked out exceedingly well...photos, videos and even
artwork were sent... it was a tremendous experience!

Thanks for the msg... I have a feeling my sysop lost the link for
a little while but I'm glad it's back.

--Fran

 


--  
uucp: uunet!m2xenix!puddle!272!94!Fran.O'gorman
Internet: Fran.O'gorman@f94.n272.z1.fidonet.org
From: Per.Jonsson@f418.n205.z2.fidonet.org (Per Jonsson)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.comp.literacy
Subject: RE: Query
Date: Thu,  8 Oct 92  8:27:54 PST
Organization: FidoNet node 2:205/418 - Nolaskolans TCL, Ornskoldsvik

 JL> Per - If you're writing to the Computer Literacy area of K-12 Net, 
 JL> then your message is going out. 
 
Yes. Thanx. 
 
 JL> Consider this a reply to verify your success.  Where is Ornskoldsvik 
 JL> located? 
 
Ornskoldsvik is located in the northern part of Sweden, by the east cost. 
 
PJ  
  

--  
uucp: uunet!m2xenix!puddle!2!205!418!Per.Jonsson
Internet: Per.Jonsson@f418.n205.z2.fidonet.org
From: Helen.Sternheim@f109.n321.z1.fidonet.org (Helen Sternheim)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.comp.literacy
Subject: Maximus free? (was Re: B
Date: Fri, 09 Oct 92 20:23:55 PST
Organization: FidoNet node 1:321/109 - Pioneer Valley PCUG, Amherst MA

In a message of <04 Oct 92  08:35:16>, John Feltham (3:640/706) writes:

 JF>JP>Is Maximus FREE for schools?  It says that organizations must
 JF>JP>register.  I once tried (sort-of) to contact the author, but got no 
 JF>response.
 JF>
 JF>You can't have read the docs. Max is free for a school based BBS, as
 JF>long as the schools administration does not have access/use of the BBS.
 JF>
Thats not quite it either.  As long as the bbs is being used in a non  
commercial way it is free.  I am sure a principal communicating with children  
would be fine. 



--  
uucp: uunet!m2xenix!puddle!321!109!Helen.Sternheim
Internet: Helen.Sternheim@f109.n321.z1.fidonet.org
From: Bob.Koreis@p0.f118.n138.z1.fidonet.org (Bob Koreis)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.comp.literacy
Subject: Logo
Date: Mon, 05 Oct 92 22:48:15 PST
Organization: FidoNet node 1:138/118.0 - Keithley Komputer K, Tacoma WA

WARNING!!!
 
I am about to speak heresy.
 
Please be careful if your considering using LOGO with your students. 
 According to Pappert and others, learning LOGO helps the student 
develop problem solving strategies that can later be generalized to other areas.  The problem is, this transfer doesn't take place.  Learning LOGO is good only for doing LOGO projects.  This falls in with current ideas about situated learning (although in truth, all learning is situated).  Want to say I've read some recent research questioning the use of LOGO, but caqn't pull up the articles right now.
I really question the purpose or need for teaching programming at 
the elementary level.

 

This is just MHO.



--  
uucp: uunet!m2xenix!puddle!138!118.0!Bob.Koreis
Internet: Bob.Koreis@p0.f118.n138.z1.fidonet.org
From: Fran.O'gorman@f94.n272.z1.fidonet.org (Fran O'gorman)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.comp.literacy
Subject: Re: msgs here lately?
Date: 12 Oct 92 20:58:31 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:272/94 - Monroe Electronic M, Monroe NY


 BK> G'day Fran!

G'day to you too, Brad!  :-)
     
 >> Wow, neat!  My computer group will be thrilled to see this...
     
 BK> 'Wow, neat!' :-) I haven't heard that expression anywhere before 
 BK> except for the movies! In Oz, we usually say 'Great', 'Cool', 
 BK> 'Fantastic' etc.. 

Haha, my 18 yr old (son) is already convinced I'm a nerd... what
you're saying confirms his suspicions... :-)

 BK> You can tell your computer grouo that I a a LONG way away from you 
 BK> (thousands of miles!). I haven't been to the US before, but 
 BK> hopefully next year ... I don't have the ability to get 12 or 13 
 BK> year olds, but I will be happy to talk to them, if they want to 
 BK> ask any questions. 

Well I think they might just want to take you up on that!  (If the
moderator doesn't mind our casual banter)  When you come to the US
will you be visiting New York by any chance?  We're approximately
60 miles away from New York City, but because of the mountains our
area is still somewhat remote and rural by comparison.

 BK> I've got to go now, dinner is on the table, and mum is getting 
 BK> angry! 

Haha, are you a student yourself or a teacher?  (Mum could be
there in either case but your mentioning her made me question my
assumption that you were a teacher of computers)

--Fran


--  
uucp: uunet!m2xenix!puddle!272!94!Fran.O'gorman
Internet: Fran.O'gorman@f94.n272.z1.fidonet.org
From: Marc.Richmond@f110.n321.z1.fidonet.org (Marc Richmond)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.comp.literacy
Subject: Rob Bobinson
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 92 19:34:54 PST
Organization: FidoNet node 1:321/110 - Physics Forum, Amherst MA

Ed ... Thanks a lot. Robbie is a great guy. When I worked with him at Foxboro (MA) High School a couple years ago he was just getting started with computers and Foreign Languages. The last I talked with him (almost a year ago now) he was trying to find a BBS to hook up with.
 
How are thinks going with you, by-the-by? I have lost (in the maze of sub-directories) our earlier writings. Are you associated with the school system? 
 
Keep in touch ... Peace to you and yours.


--  
uucp: uunet!m2xenix!puddle!321!110!Marc.Richmond
Internet: Marc.Richmond@f110.n321.z1.fidonet.org
From: Gordon.Ramsay@f2.n255.z1.fidonet.org (Gordon Ramsay)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.comp.literacy
Subject: Re: SOFTWARE FOR KIDS
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 92 22:01:22 PST
Organization: FidoNet node 1:255/2 - NEWBED, Fredericton NB

  Just a short note which may help you find educational shareware. I have 
just received a CD-ROM disk loaded with over 1000 programs.The disk rates 
each program according to performance. The disk is called Ed. Master and is 
available from Max Systems, P.O. Bob 1087, Winter Gardens, Fl. 34777 and can 
be telephoned at (407) 877-3807. Cost of the disk is $33.00. I am a Computer 
Coordinator for a small School Board and am always on the lookout for 
shareware for the K-9 grades. If you know of any other GOOD CD-ROM shareware 
disks I would appreciate a reply. Gordon Ramsay, O'Leary RR#3, P.E.I.

--  
uucp: uunet!m2xenix!puddle!255!2!Gordon.Ramsay
Internet: Gordon.Ramsay@f2.n255.z1.fidonet.org
From: Billy.Nulf@p0.f11.n356.z1.fidonet.org (Billy Nulf)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.comp.literacy
Subject: Re: Logo
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 92 23:21:36 PST
Organization: FidoNet node 1:356/11.0 - The College, Coos Bay OR

You question the need of teaching programming at elementary levels?
 
Most odd, the ealier a person learns a skill the better.  I know several teenagers who are writing commercial quality programs in C.  If programming is taught as an art form ... who cares what age it is taught.
 
I have decided to take a serious look at ADA language, not because I need to, but because I want to.  Programming is fun, and teaching it should be akin to teaching reading ... people who are effective readers do it because they love to do it and most of them learned at an early age.
 
Billy



--  
uucp: uunet!m2xenix!puddle!356!11.0!Billy.Nulf
Internet: Billy.Nulf@p0.f11.n356.z1.fidonet.org
From: Bill.Roehm@p0.f555.n157.z1.fidonet.org (Bill Roehm)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.comp.literacy
Subject: Ibm iclas
Date: Mon, 05 Oct 92 21:42:00 PST
Organization: FidoNet node 1:157/555.0 - JCUPCB BBS, University Hts OH

I was wondering if anyone out there uses IBM computers with a Novell network and IBM ICLAS software???  If so, I would like to know how things are going and any problems that you might have with it.



--  
uucp: uunet!m2xenix!puddle!157!555.0!Bill.Roehm
Internet: Bill.Roehm@p0.f555.n157.z1.fidonet.org
From: Phil.Spooner@p0.f23.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Phil Spooner)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.comp.literacy
Subject: Re: Logo
Date: Thu, 08 Oct 92 16:17:44 PST
Organization: FidoNet node 1:105/23.0 - HI TECH TOOLS / Lib, Portland OR

Interesting comments.  You're one of the first people I've heard advocate 
such a position.  Do you teach?  I've observed students with a minimum 
of instruction use LOGO to create wonderful graphics.  And if nothing 
else, working with that language does allow the student to see the 
spatial relationships between shapes, and the math that creates them. 
You can't get that from even the best textbook.  That's learning fro 
experience, the best way I know how.
 
I'd love to have citations for those articles you mentioned.
 
Thanks for responding, Peace!  Phil 



--  
uucp: uunet!m2xenix!puddle!23.0!Phil.Spooner
Internet: Phil.Spooner@p0.f23.n105.z1.fidonet.org
From: Joanne.Wilkins@f680.n260.z1.fidonet.org (Joanne Wilkins)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.comp.literacy
Subject: msgs here lately?
Date: Fri, 09 Oct 92 14:41:00 PST
Organization: FidoNet node 1:260/680 - Gananda Central Sch, Walworth NY

Yes! I did see your message.

I'm the Computer Coordinator for the Gananda Central Schools. If you are 
interested in having correspondence between classes of students I believe 
that I could arrange something.

Please respond in net mail. I'm at 1:260/608 - The Gananda Central School 
Bulletin Board.

-Joanne-  
 

--  
uucp: uunet!m2xenix!puddle!260!680!Joanne.Wilkins
Internet: Joanne.Wilkins@f680.n260.z1.fidonet.org
From: Phil.Spooner@p0.f23.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Phil Spooner)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.comp.literacy
Subject: Re: ELEMENTARY COMPUTER
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 92 11:50:01 PST
Organization: FidoNet node 1:105/23.0 - HI TECH TOOLS / Lib, Portland OR

Hello John:
 
By some program I meant the program you described on your first message 
to me, the one that kids use for programming.  You said I could do 
a lot worse to use it.  Do you use it?
 
Sorry for the mix up? Do you teach computer literacy?
 
Peace, Phil 



--  
uucp: uunet!m2xenix!puddle!23.0!Phil.Spooner
Internet: Phil.Spooner@p0.f23.n105.z1.fidonet.org
From: John.Feltham@f706.n640.z3.fidonet.org (John Feltham)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.comp.literacy
Subject: Query
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 10:23:26 PST
Organization: FidoNet node 3:640/706 - Coral Sea, Townsville Qld Australia

G'day Per,

Saturday October 10 1992 11:05, Per Jonsson wrote to John Feltham:


 > G'day! How are you? Summer there now? It's snowing here today...

Not quite summer yet. Only 29 deg C at the moment!

Tough where you are though!  :-)

       _--|\
      /     \  ooroo
      \.--._/
           v


--  
uucp: uunet!m2xenix!puddle!3!640!706!John.Feltham
Internet: John.Feltham@f706.n640.z3.fidonet.org
From: Fran.O'gorman@f94.n272.z1.fidonet.org (Fran O'gorman)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.comp.literacy
Subject: Re: Pascal Info.
Date: Mon, 05 Oct 92 21:45:29 PST
Organization: FidoNet node 1:272/94 - Monroe Electronic M, Monroe NY


 BN> BASIC is much easier to use when it come to files (particularly 
 BN> random access files), the GET and PUT statements are particularly 
 BN> powerful. My mailing list program written in BASIC took less than 
 BN> a week to write, but such a program in Pascal would be much 
 BN> harder.  I suspect that I learned Pascal before I learned BASIC, I 
 BN> would be better able to write in it.  
 BN> My mentor in computer science told me "... teaching a person BASIC 
 BN> is like teaching a child to cuss."  I don't agree with him 
 BN> entirely but then again I was taught not to cuss as a child.
  
Hi Billy,

A good friend of mine (who remains an ardent fan of BASIC despite
all its flaws) said he felt, "C was for snobs and Pascal for
masochists!"  :-)  I don't know if I'd go THAT far but even Bill
Gates said that when it comes to simply getting the job done, you
can't beat BASIC for productivity and ease...one could get the job
done (writing the program that is) faster than with any other
language.  Now with quickbasic there can even be more structure...

Maybe I should adress this to your mentor in defense of the poor
maligned language... but you know what's a great first language?
(I think anyway)...LOGO!  :-)

--Fran


     

     


--  
uucp: uunet!m2xenix!puddle!272!94!Fran.O'gorman
Internet: Fran.O'gorman@f94.n272.z1.fidonet.org
From: John.Feltham@f706.n640.z3.fidonet.org (John Feltham)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.comp.literacy
Subject: Query
Date: Sun, 04 Oct 92 09:10:20 PST
Organization: FidoNet node 3:640/706 - Coral Sea, Townsville Qld Australia

G'day Per,

PJ>Is this text going out on the net? I have written a couple
PJ>of texts in this echo, but have never received any reply...

I have been away for two weeks holiday and have just seen your msg.

As you can see, you have reached 'down-under'  :-)

    _--|\
   /     \  ooroo
   \.__.-/
        v

 * SLMR 2.1a * Coral Sea Views, Wulguru, Townsville, Australia


--  
uucp: uunet!m2xenix!puddle!3!640!706!John.Feltham
Internet: John.Feltham@f706.n640.z3.fidonet.org