From: jyanowit@mtholyoke.edu (Jason Yanowitz)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Neo-nazis exploit Hebrew...
Date: 21 Jan 1993 10:13:27 -0500
Organization: Mount Holyoke College
NNTP-Posting-Host: slab.mtholyoke.edu
Keywords: racism

In article <1993Jan21.145616.203486@uctvax.uct.ac.za> naturman@uctvax.uct.ac.za writes:
>>>
>>>( Despite what most people think, there are probabaly less neo-Nazis and
>>>racists in South Africa both in absolute terms and percentage-wise than in the
>>>USA, so you  don't have to worry about this kind of thinking overtaking SA.)
>> 
>> Is that so???   What does Colin mean by "overtaking"?
>> 
>>>Colin
>>  Michael Shimshoni
>
>I meant that you don't have to worry about vast amounts of people (White or
>otherwise) falling for such a silly racist argument.
>
>From reports of racist violence in the USA, I get the strong impression that
>there is far more racism in the States than in SA. Despite the fact that I live
>in South Africa, I can honestly say that I have never ever met anyone who can
>truly be called a racist. The Ku Klux Klan style of racism is actually quite
>rare in SA.
Where to begin:
1) The law IS the KKK.
2) "quite rare" ... it exists, it's unacceptable -- the government is not
exactly anti-racist.
>
>As for Apartheid, I leave you with this thought:
>How come the people who whine about Apartheid in SA often turn out to be the
>same people who think that Apartheid in Israel is just dandy and that Jews
>should be forcefully removed from the West Bank and Gaza strip which should be
>exclusively Arab land. How come the people who bark at SA are usually the same
>people who want to stop Jews from living in East Jerusalem. Can you imagine the
>outcry if SA passed a law that said that Blacks can't live in East Cape Town. :)
>
>Colin
This kind of argument is so flawed it's pathetic (kind of like most
rationalizations of Apartheid).

1) Whether someone is hypcortical doesn't deny the validity of their
critique of South Africa.
2) The phrase "Whining about Apartheid" is quite indicative of where you're
coming from -- it's similar to "whining about rape", "whining about pogroms"
etc... The ludicrousness of this when combined with the real world
oppression/murder/devastation Apartheid wreaks is infuriating.
3) I'm flaming at some level because I find this post (and Apartheid)
a threat to my well being:
	Given my family's history and Eastern Europe (my father's side
	of the family fled pogroms and economic oppression, my mother's
	the Holocaust) I was raised and am acutely aware that any time
	or place that tolerates oppression of one group can do it to
	any group (the history of Jews is filled with this truth) so
	among the many moral reasons to fight all forms of oppression,
	their is a serious issue of personal survival.  This is why I'm
	continually doing anti-racism work in America (a legacy passed
	on by my father (and his parents), who raised me) and why the
	continued conflagartion between Israel and neighboring states/
	terrotories is so deeply painful for me (yes Israel has a
	right to exist, but I don't want to focus on the Mid-East in
	this post).  I feel quit strongly that (white) Jews in America, both
	for current survival reasons and out of respect for one's
	ancestors (be they from Spain, Eithopia, Eastern Europe, etc...)
	must be actively anti-racist, just as they should be anti-anti-
	Semitism (if there a tighter way of saying that?) and anti-sexist
	(I won't start on the links between exploitative class structures
	and racism and anti-Semitism right now).  This isn't always easy,
	as many white Jews are able to reap white skin privilege (And
	even assimilate at some level) -- something their ancestors were
	never able to do.  It can be difficult/scary to think about this,
	its implications, and realize that this path (assimilating, taking
	on white skin privilege/class priviliege, etc... is ultimately
	self -defeating, and can generate a lot of enemies that one's
	going to need as allies when one wakes up to one's danger) (I
	put myself in this category, btw.  But I won't go into that unless
	it becomes relevant in the thread).
 
4) Blacks are of course, if nothing else de facto, restricted from living
in parts of South Africa, so a comparison to Israel does little to change
the reality in South Africa.
5) In terms of the need to act, it's irrelevant which is more racist:
America or South Africa.  It is important not to "sugarcoat" the racism
in one country by focusing on the other.  So while we must look at how
racist police brutality pervades many U.S. cities, we must not ignore the
same brutality in S.A. (and vice versa). 
6) It's interesting that Colin picks two extremes of people, those who
support "Jewish Supremacy" in Israel and those who support "Arab
Supremacy", states both of these groups are against South Africa (a
White SUpremacist state) and I guess we're supposed to make the logical
leap that South Africa is therefore not White supremacist (not to mention,
ignore everyone else who criticizes South Africa).

In the interest of brevity, I'll stop here.  There is obvously a lot
more that can be said.


Jason Yanowitz                | PGP 2.0 key available via fingering and email.
jyanowit@orixa.mtholyoke.edu  | I'm always looking for new keys, send my yours!
"A pox on Columbus" -- Bernstein, in the movie _Hester Street_ 
-- 

Jason Yanowitz                | PGP 2.0 key available via fingering and email.
jyanowit@orixa.mtholyoke.edu  | I'm always looking for new keys, send my yours!
"A pox on Columbus" -- Bernstein, in the movie _Hester Street_ 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.german