HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: davis@ee.rochester.edu (Al Davis)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles,rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: HG Chain vs. Sedis ATB
Date: 1 Sep 92 13:47:44 GMT
Followup-To: rec.bicycles.tech
Organization: Univ of Rochester, College of Engineering and Applied Science


I have a Sachs freewheel.  Which works better with that?

I now have a Shimano chain.  It is the original chain on the bike.  Still
good after 8000 miles.  (Dura-Ace) If you get a Shimano chain the Dura-Ace
chain is worth the extra money.  The others don't last.

Related topic....  
What chains work best with Suntour?  My experience: wide (6 speed):
Shimano.  narrow (7 speed and ultra-6): I don't know but certainly not
Shimano.  I now use a Sedis.  It shifts better than my other bike with
Shimano stuff (and Sachs freewheel).  Sedissport chain wore out in only 3000
miles.  Original Suntour (DID) chain lasted only 500, but it was probably
the cheapest one.

al.
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: locher@iastate.edu (Robert C Locher)
Subject: Re: Why does this group still exist?
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 18:32:28 GMT

In <locher.715556325@pv1648.vincent.iastate.edu> locher@iastate.edu (Robert C Locher) writes:

>Is it because some sites don't get rec.bicycles.*, or is it because
>people are too lazy to figure out which group they should be posting to?

>I thought that the purpose of the expansion was that this group would be
>eliminated.  I for one am ready to see it go.  I'm tired of plowing
>through it.

>				- Rob

As Mike Iglesias <iglesias@draco.acs.uci.edu> kindly tells me, the
official death date for rec.bicycles is November 23, as announced in
news.announce.newgroups.  Hopefully everybody that isn't getting the new
hierarchy now will by then.  If you're not getting it, bug whoever's in
charge!

				- Rob
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: melvin@math.psu.edu (Richard Mansfield)
Subject: Re: Wheel truing I need advice
Reply-To: melvin@math.psu.edu
Organization: Dept. of Mathematics, Penn State University
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 17:34:19 GMT

I have experienced a new problem with wheel truing. On a new wheel
with new Wheelsmith spokes and nipples, I am having extreme difficulty
adjusting the spokes. When I turn the nipple, all I get is wind-up, the
spoke turns with the nipple.  I have tried pressing the back of a wooden
spoon into the spoke with my left thumb as I use the spoke wrench with
my right hand, but this is not all that effective, and very hard on my
hand.

Does anyone have any suggettions?
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: mjohnsto@jenny.shearson.com (Mike Johnston)
Subject: Re: Wheel truing I need advice
Organization: Lehman Brothers
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 19:07:11 GMT

In article <9209011719.AA20875@hplomg.hpl.hp.com> BRANDT_JOBST/HP1900_01@HPLOMG.HPL.HP.COM writes:
   There is a book on this that describes these operations in minute
   detail with diagrams.  I am paraphrasing here but you could get this
   book "the Bicycle Wheel" at your local bike shop and be privy to all
   the fine details that possibly even your bike shop mechanics don't know
   since many of these are self taught in the art.

Until I read this, I questioned whether Jobst had a humorous bone in his body.
Now I don't need to worry about him. It looks like he's got a modesty bone as well.

8-)

MJ
--
Michael R. Johnston/System Administrator                mjohnsto@shearson.com  
  =-=-=  The official .signature of the 1992 Barcelona Olympics. =-=-=

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: shenry@cs.rice.edu (Sam Henry)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: top five innovations
Date: 4 Sep 92 15:04:45 GMT
Followup-To: rec.bicycles.tech
Organization: Rice University, Houston

In article <p4lnhz-.tomk@netcom.com> tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H.
Kunich) writes: 
>... Is this any more a deceptive practice than for Continental to
>stress in many adds that they have won so many world championship
                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>medals or Olympic medals?  

You are reaching, Tom.

What you "quote" Continental as saying would be deceptive, but is not,
in fact, what Continental claims.  Continental claims that "...so many
world championship medals or Olympic medals" have been won on their
tires.  Far different to claim riders using your product have won such
than to claim them for yourself.

>If you have trouble with advertising claims you are in the wrong
>country. 

There was no dispute with anything Shimano has advertised.  Or
Continental or Michelin (the same claim Continental makes) or Schwinn
(more gold medals won on Schwinn bikes than any other bike since <a
date that escapes me>)

Now, drop the strawman argument and get back to the point:  What was
the technical basis of Shimano's product development of Biopace (tm)
chainrings.  Harry cites Shimano's own technical publication.  You
cite and interview in a magazine.  I have read the interview and I do
not recall the words "Biopace (tm) was developed as a marketing
gimmick, consumer ploy" or words to that effect.  Perhaps it is time
to provide a citation, including page nr, or the verbatim text from
the article (can't be more than a sentence or two).  Harry has cited
the data in such a way that I can go find it, and has quoted their
report. 

Time to take a pull on the front, Tom.



-- 
sam henry <shenry@rice.edu>
Wanna ride?
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: mjohnsto@jenny.shearson.com (Mike Johnston)
Subject: Re: What to rename "clipless" pedals?
Organization: Lehman Brothers
	<MJOHNSTO.92Aug26153459@jenny.shearson.com> <Btp6C4.5JC@wpi.WPI.EDU>
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 19:41:05 GMT

In article <Btp6C4.5JC@wpi.WPI.EDU> rkh@realsoon.WPI.EDU (R Kurt Heinzmann) writes:
   >   > Joel Plutchak, Research Programmer/Analyst
   >		    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
   >   Perhaps this hasn't a lot to do with anything, either bicycles or for that
   >   matter net news.  I suppose titles and job description give more weight to
   >   your opinions in the eyes of some readers.  I am not impressed.  You might
   >   try letting your words rest on their own merit.
   >
   >
   >Geez, Jobst, what'd you eat for breakfast? Give the guy a break.
   >
   >MJ
   >--
   >Michael R. Johnston/System Administrator                mjohnsto@shearson.com  
   >  =-=-=  The official .signature of the 1992 Barcelona Olympics. =-=-=
   >

   Jobst always gets irritated about this, and posts complaints regularly.  It
   doesn't distract me that much; I guess I just filter it out.  But really,
   isn't it old-fashioned to include your title in your name?

   Kurt Heinzmann/Part-time cyclist, no .sig


This might be true, but either practice what you preach or add a smiley.

8-)

MJ


--
Michael R. Johnston/System Administrator                mjohnsto@shearson.com  
  =-=-=  The official .signature of the 1992 Barcelona Olympics. =-=-=
From: RADDAMSW@LIVERPOOL.AC.UK
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: AT-4 Pro bars
Date: 2 Sep 92 07:50:37 GMT
Organization: University of Liverpool


      I've been using the AT-4 Pro's or around a year now, and always had sore
arms from leaning on my grips in the aero position. In June I was challanged to
enter a time trial by a roadie colleague of mine, so I bought a set of the
Scott armrests (you know, the ones for the 'proper' tri-bars), and mounted them
around 6" apart on my bars. (These rests are held by a clamp that can be
removed and put round the bars *without* having to remove grips etc.). Boy did
that make a big difference! I'm far more comfortable and have more control now
that my arms a re supported rather then just 'resting'. I did a 25min for a 10
mile time trial on my MtB by the way - not fast, but fast enough to beat over
half the roadies who competed! (Were they upset!!!!)

Steve JW (MadBritishMountainBikerAndMaterialsScientist)
From: flip@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Phillip Russell)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: How do you protect a bike from the elements?
Date: 2 Sep 92 07:11:36 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center

In article <1992Aug31.195734.12803@beaver.cs.washington.edu> pardo@cs.washington.edu (David Keppel) writes:
>
>I concur that salt is a problem, but I find the biggest problem is that
>water washes the chain dry in short order -- a chain is adequately
>lubed when it's wet, but when it dries  it needs relubing.  Leaving it
>in the rain in the morning can leave me with a squeaky chain in the
>afternoon.  I suspect that lubing the dirty chain is still better for
>it than riding it home dry.  It sounds wretched when it's dry!  I hope
>by this fall that I will have a chain case on my 5-speed commuter.
>

I solve this problem by using the thick Phil Wood oil. Drool some on the
chain once a week and I never see it rust!!

>Water also washes the lube off of cable runs and brake and derailleur
>pivots, and sometimes leaves them rusty.  Periodic lubrication is the
>only solution I've found.  Once a week seems like it's enough, once a
>month doesn't.
>

Never found this worth messing with. My TREK 830 is the model that has
the cables running under the bottom bracket. I wouldn't be able to keep
them cables from rusting if I greased them everyday. Cables are cheap.
Replace 'em a few times per year. (Bulk orders save money.) 8-)

>Riding in the rain also washes junk in to the bearings.  I've never
>figured out exactly what combination of riding in the wet and parking
>outdoors causes the most infusion, but hubs with poor seals seem to
>pick up a lot of crap in a month.  Good labrynth or rubber seals seem
>to do the trick.  Fenders help keep junk out of the headset lower race.
>So does a piece of inner tube, next time you have the headset apart.
>

Just smear some thick grease around all the exposed areas. A lot easier
than trying to disaster proof your hubs. Of course all the MR. CYCLIST
types out there will always make fun of the black gunk around your
vital components.

Long live the fenders!!!!

May all the MR. CYCLISTS ride with snails trails!!

>Brake pads sometimes wear quickly in the rain.  Cantilevers can wear
>and tuck under the rim, losing the brakes or jamming the wheel;
>centerpulls can wear and ride up, destroying the tire casing and
>causing a sudden flat, sometimes while braking.
>

Simple solution.

Adjust your brakes every one or two weeks. Only takes a couple of
minutes!!!!

Flip


-- 
    __@  __@        Phillip "Flip" Russell  | Purdue University
  _-\<, -\<,_       flip@sage.cc.purdue.edu | West Lafayette, IN
 (_)/---|/-(_)      "We don't have enough power captain!!!"
From: TOM@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Shimano Bottom Bracket-UN50
Date: 1 Sep 92 20:42:33 GMT
Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center

I'm think about buying one, has anyone installed one, and if so, are they
any good?
                                                Tom
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: rlewis@muskwa.ucs.ualberta.ca (Robert Lewis)
Subject: Re: Keeping Chamois Supple
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 23:07:40 GMT

ra_novy@DAL.MOBIL.COM writes:

>What do y'all use to keep the chamois (just how does one pronounce that?) in
>your cycling shorts supple?  Over time, it tends to dry out and stiffen up. 
>Yes I do wash them (by hand) after every ride, but with a minimum of detergent
>so as not to leach out whatever softener is there originally.

One can (perhaps could) get chamois (pronounced as shamy, shamois
{rhyming with the the french mois}, or shamoy {rhyming with toy}, the
last seeming to be the most common english cycling prononciation) cream
which one rubs on the chamois when it starts to get dry.  If you can
find some at a bike store it would probably be in a remainder bin
(cheap), a saddle (i.e., for horses) shop might also sell similar stuff.
Vasaline might also work (the ingrediants on by tub, in French and
German only, starts with "vaelinum").


Robert M. Lewis
Department of Sociology
University of Alberta
Edmonton, Alberta
Canada
From: khe@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Keith Erskine)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 21:32:44 GMT
Subject: Re: Trispokes
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles

In rec.bicycles, BRANDT_JOBST writes:

> I think the rim wear problem has nothing to do with coastal areas but
> rather with the weather and terrain in which the wheel is used.  Abrasive
> slurry abounds in the rain and especially on unpaved surfaces.  Since
> most people don't seem to descend substantial distances in the rain, they
> experience insignificant rim wear.  Meanwhile in competition this occurs
> often and wear is a consideration.

Boy, you hit the nail on the head with this one!!! I competed in the
downhill competition at the Norba National King of the Rockies this
weekend.  When I raced it had been pouring freezing rain for some time.
Within 100 yards of starting my bicycle, body, and glasses were coated
with mud.  Mud splashed into my eyes under the glasses and made it hard
to see.  

About 2/3 of the way down, doing maybe 25-30mph on singletrack, I applied
my brakes for a sharp turn, and presto, NO BRAKES WHATSOEVER!!!!
I blew right past the turn, and fortunately coasted to a stop by turning
uphill on fairly smooth ground free of boulders & trees. 

My brake pads, practically new, had worn down entirely (the slots were
entirely gone), and the brakes had folded under the rims, but not into
the spokes.   Yikes!!! I disintegrated my brake pads in 2 miles!!!!!

Is it possible my rims need replacement?  What's the best way to tell?

Keith Erskine
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: ovr@vipunen.hut.fi (Otto-Ville Ronkainen)
Subject: Re: top five innovations
Reply-To: ovr@vipunen.hut.fi (Otto-Ville Ronkainen)
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 00:07:44 GMT

In article <04knv-k.tomk@netcom.com> tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich) writes:
>those 'scientific' theories were sound but the tests were generally
>completely flawed -- as evidenced by the football shaped rings
>most commonly on sale.

Exactly what is wrong with football-shaped ie. round chainrings? (B-)
-- 
Ott-Vill R___________________        Nyrxfnagreva_xngh wn Xhavaxnna_xngh
ovr@vipunen.hut.fi                           ba erunovyvgbvgnin!
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: stigmata@athena.mit.edu (???)
Subject: Re: QUESTION about aero bars
Followup-To: rec.bicycles.tech
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 22:47:12 GMT

In article <26AUG199211304246@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov> tohall@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov (Dave Hall (Sverdrup)) writes:
>In article <1992Aug25.100911.8781@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com>, erdmans@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com (Check your gravity at the door.) writes...
>>Hello there,
>> 
>>I am thinking about purchasing SCOTT Lemond II Clip-On Bars.
>> 
>>The bars come in 4 different extension sizes, 11, 12, 13, or 14 inches.
>> 
>>Does a method exist where I can measure my arms or another relevant part
>>of my body to determine which extension size would be best for me?
>> 
>>Thank you for any information you can provide.
>> 
>>Scott
>> 
>
>    My understanding is that these are WIDTHS, not extensions. The choice
>is a tradeoff between aero advantage and comfort. The bigger your upper
>body is, the more width you need for a comfortable position. It also 
>depends on your intended use. I have a large (44 inch chest) upper body,
>but I use the narrowest Profile clip-ons I could get. I am using them 
>just for time trials, and all I care about is being comfortable enough
>to use them for 1 hour (preferrably less ;} at a time. If you want to
>go touring on them for 5 or 6 hours a day (or more) then you may want
>more width. 
>                Just my opinion!
>                              DH

i am sorry, but in this case your understanding is wrong. :)
the numbers are the length from your elbow to the middle
of your fist, measure when your elbow is on the table with
your arm pointing up.  and this should be taken to 
rec.bicycles.tech , if your system has it.

andy
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: les@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (Les Earnest)
Subject: Re: FAQ for new subgroups?
Organization: /usr/lib/news/organizatoin
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 08:21:18 GMT

Dave Severn wrote:
> My vote is to keep one FAQ for all the groups.

Jobst responds:
>I concur.  Besides, it would take a King Solomon decision where to
>cut the subjects apart.

I strongly disagree.  The subjects can be easily sorted into the six
topics based on a single reading of the charters.  This will also
reduce the FAQs to less stupendous sizes.

--
Les Earnest                                  Phone:  415 941-3984
Internet: Les@cs.Stanford.edu              USMail: 12769 Dianne Drive
UUCP: . . . decwrl!cs.Stanford.edu!Les         Los Altos Hills, CA 94022
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: trammell@engin.umich.edu (James Trammell)
Subject: Taya "No Chain Tool Required" Chain
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 92 17:24:33 EDT
Organization: The University of Michigan
Originator: trammell@metaphor.engin.umich.edu


I've seen ads recently about a new chain on the market, made by a company
called Taya.  It seems they have 2 models, the Taya Relief and the Taya
Extreme.  Both are advertised as having a special master links that can be
snapped on or off with just the hands, i.e. no chain tool is needed.  They
also talk about the virtues of their chain plates and how the pins are
flush with the plate surfaces.
I have a mtn. bike with a Hyperglide chain, and it can get pretty dirty,
and I like to keep it clean, so I remove it frequently.  It's a pain to have
to use that stupid replacement pin though.  Has anyone tried this new chain?
Is the Taya Relief or the Taya Extreme good for use on bikes that use
Hyperglide chains?


Thanks,
-James
From: iglesias@draco.acs.uci.edu (Mike Iglesias)
Subject: Re: FAQ for new subgroups?
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 31 Aug 92 22:07:01 GMT

In article <2A9DC591.14106@orion.oac.uci.edu> iglesias@draco.acs.uci.edu (Mike Iglesias) writes:
>Before I go thru the work of splitting the FAQ up into separate FAQs for
>each new subgroup in rec.bicycles, I'd like to make sure that's what you
>people want.  Please indicate whether you want 1) the FAQ split up, or 2)
>left as it is and posted to rec.bicycles.misc.  Either send email to me or
>post a follow-up to this article. 

Out of over 40 responses so far, only 4 people have requested that I
split the FAQ.  I don't think I'm going to do it. 

Look for the FAQ to be posted to rec.bicycles.misc in the next week or so.


Mike
From: mwkx@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: FOR SALE: SOMEC SLX AIR W/ C-RECORD.
Date: 3 Sep 92 10:24:42 EDT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Cornell University

For Sale: 53 cm Somec SLX Air. Colour: Red-Yellow-White fade.
Campagnolo C-Record retrofriction, Cinelli bars and stem, San Marco Rolls
saddle, Campagnolo delta clincher rims, Continental Supersport tyres,
Mavic pedals.

Condition: excellent.

Price: $1400 or best offer.

Location: Ithaca, NY.

Reason for selling: I received an offer I could not refuse on a Kestrel.

email: mwkx@cornellc

phone: 607-273-0877.
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: corfmanr@gtephx.UUCP (Russ Corfman)
Subject: Re: Track Gearing Question
Organization: AG Communication Systems, Phoenix, Arizona
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 19:24:08 GMT

In article <1992Aug7.185851.13750@leland.Stanford.EDU>, tedebear@leland.Stanford.EDU (Theodore Chen) writes:
> In article <n4xmgm#.tomk@netcom.com> tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich) writes:
> >In article <1992Aug6.174837.9257@ncs.com> dick@ncs.com writes:
> >>O.K. Here's one I heard at the track last night that
> >>doesn't make sense to me.
> >>
> >>A rider says he is going to buy a 47 tooth chainring, so he
> >>can run a 47x14 rather than a 50x15.  Both are identical
> >>90 inch gears.  He claims that although they are both
> >>90 inch gears, you can "get around better" and spin better
> >>on a 47x14 than 50x15 because the chainring is smaller.

Sorry, but they are not identical gears. the 47x14 is the larger
at 90.64" while the 50x15 is exactly 90". If he wants to spin 
better, he'll use the 50x15. My guess is he just wants a slightly
larger gear to give him a slight edge at the high speeds but
not really hinder his accelleration at the lower speeds. With
his reasoning, he really ought to use a 40x12 which also is an
exact 90".

> >Try looking at it this way -- you have to accelerate the chain
> >through the arc of the chainring. The larger chainring requires
> >more power to accelerate because the arc is larger and the RPM
> >is the same so the chain speed is greater and the flywheel
> >effect is larger. 

Somebody's digging for an excuse...
> 
> since he said spinning, i assume he means a constant speed.  in that
> case, i don't think it makes any difference how big the rings are.
> in fact, with frictional losses, the larger rings might be better because
> the chain links don't need to move as much to wrap the chain around.
> in any event, i'm sure the difference is infinitesimal.

Just because one is spinning doesn't mean that person can't be
changing speeds.
> 
> in the case of acceleration: it's true that the arc is larger, but
> there's less chain to accelerate linearly.  (i'm visualizing
> this as two rotating wheels with a chain wrapped around them, omitting
> the derailleur for simplicity.)  since the chain length stays constant,
> using the larger chainring/cog reduces the amount of chain travelling
> linearly between the two.  i don't know how this comes out.
> 
Ya know, I'd omit the derailleur because we're talking track bikes,
not for simplicity's sake. Does this slip expose one who is writing
total conjecture?

Ciao,
-- 
Russell Corfman
AG Communication Systems; Phoenix, AZ
UUCP: ...!{ncar!noao!enuucp | att}!gtephx!corfmanr
Internet: gtephx!corfmanr@enuucp.eas.asu.edu
(602) 581-4403
From: drobinso@mendel.une.edu.au (D.Robinson,,,)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: My Bicycle Helmet Experience
Date: 25 Aug 92 09:05:34 GMT
Reply-To: drobinso@mendel.une.edu.au
Originator: drobinso@mendel.une.edu.au

From article <truesdel-180892163537@cobler.ics.uci.edu>, by truesdel@ics.uci.edu (R. Scott Truesdell):
> In article <1652@grivel.une.edu.au>, drobinso@mendel.une.oz.au (    ,,,)
> wrote:
>>
>> I partly agree.  But if a cyclist, helmeted or not, is injured through no
>> fault of his own, by a car driver slamming into him, that motorist, or his
>> insurance should be responsible for ALL these costs.  Think of the
>> implications of the alternative.
> 
> Actually, not necessarily so.
> The catch is where you say "through no fault of his own".
> 
> The lawyers are arguing (and winning) saying that, meerly by the fact
> that the plaintif was not wearing seatbelts, the plaintif contributed
> to the severity of the injuries. They have been able to attach fault
> to what otherwise would be considered a completely faultless situation.

For the cyclist, though, it's a very dangerous argument.
The next logical step would be:  
  Road x is far too dangerous for cyclists.  You contributed to your
accident, because you dared to be on a dangerous road in the first place.

Or, the woman contributed to being raped because she dared to go out after dark.

Ok, for car seatbelts, the idea seems innoccuous, since hardly anyone leaves 
the car at home simply because they have to wear a seatbelt.  The same does
not apply for cyclists and helmets. If we value our freedom to make our own 
decisions, perhaps we should fight this all the way!

Dorothy
From: marcus.bbs@cybernet.cse.fau.edu
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Smoke/Dart, Ground Control
Date: 28 Aug 92 07:40:38 GMT
Organization: Florida Atlantic University, Boca Raton

For some reading on Specialized tires, MBA's July 92 issue pretty much
covered it all.  In the end the liked the ground control extreme on back
and ground control on the front.  I have a friend with a Klein with that 
setup and has run with the smoke on front and rear.  He said he like the 
ground control combo.  He gets great tracktion, and most of all less 
rolling resistance then the smoke combo.  Anyone ride Specialized 
cannibles (sp)?  I also have heard that the dart sticks pretty well.

Marcus
marcus@bub.unk.edu
Xref: sparky rec.bicycles:21805 rec.bicycles.tech:49