From: reykja@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Reykja Sigurdsson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa
Subject: Re: Re: Americans! *smile*
Date: 3 Oct 92 07:04:07 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA

> >
> >
> >>I sense that stock anti-americanism and attendant contempt for 
> >>american patriotism is less rooted in any intrinsic European wisdom or
> >>modesty than in a fairly petty, vicious desire to see the US in trouble.

         This sounds like an emotional reaction rather than anything that
can be substantiated. Why is it that those who disagree with the American
value system aren't supposed to say anything? 

> >
> >   I sense that it is rooted in neither, but is rather rooted in the
> >fact that for the past quarter century, with the sole exception of the
> >Carter administration, American foreign policy has been consistently and
> >thoroughly despicable.  And it is rooted in the fact that American
> >jingoists have appropriated the idea of patriotism to support every

          Yes. That is exactly right. Somehow when Reagan made nationalism
fashionable, it was suddenly okay to assassinate leaders of other countries, 
with whom this one disagreed. It also became okay to raid Grenada (anyone
who believed that crap about the medical students must be intentionally 
kidding themselves), manipulate elections in both the Philippines and 
Nicaragua (both leaders, Violeta Chimorro and whatsername are nothing more
than CIA lapdogs), ignore domestic problems and look for more defenseless 
countries to take over. 

 

      > >vicious, imperialist, and antidemocratic action of the United States  
> >government.  When was the last time you heard any American publicly or
> >privately invoke patriotism in an appeal for support of the ideals of
> >the Declaration of Independence, the values of the Constitution, or the
> >Whitmanesque vision of America as a unique and mystical bonding of human
> >individualism and fusion?  No:  never since the day I was born has the

         Never.

> 
> 	You've never listened to Common Cause or People for the American
> Way have you?

         They are considered to be communist sympathizers and have been
continually hassled by the FBI. 

> 
> >flag of patriotism in my country been run up for any causes other than
> >the suppression of progressive dissent, the enforcement of obience to
> >establishment dictates, and the furtherance of brutal and selfish
> >overseas military adventures.

        Yes. That's right. 

>  	
> 	And this is very much the fault of our self-hating, craven
> Liberal wing. The Left or Liberal side of the political spectrum has
> allowed patriotism and pride in America to be exppropriate by the

        Bull-cookies! It isn't the left. It is the *right* that has 
caused these problems. 


> petty demagogues of the far right during the past quarter century.
> I sense strongly that this is due to their belief that all patriotism
> is nasty _because_ it is intrinsically sentimental, rather than for 
> any more intelligent reason. In my experience, this fear/distaste for
       
        Again, bullpuckey! The reason why many of us find patriotism
to be distasteful is that it is just an extension of nationalism. 


> 	i.e., the view of all forms of Swedish-style socialism as
> intrinsically wonderful, without considering the inapplicability of
> much of what they've constructed to our much larger, more polyglot
> society.

        Why? Why is it that we can't have the same kind of social services? 
What does 'polyglot' have to do with it? 

> >
> >   In short, American patriotism in our time does not mean love of
> >country:  it has come to mean lack of commitment to the common good,
> >unquestioning obedience to the chief executive, contempt for the
> >Constitution, and a satisfied smacking of lips over the piling up of
> >third world corpses.  That kind of patriotism deserves contempt, and the
> >people of the world know it.   

        Amen! Preach it! 


> 	1) not rooted in historical reality

         WHAT??? Not rooted in historical reality???? Try again. 
> 
> 	2) borne of an excessive willingness to ignore the hegemonic,
> 	violent tendencies within their own societies.

         Right. When you can't justify your own position, attack someone
else. Hmmmmm. 


//rks
Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa