Newsgroups: soc.culture.hongkong
From: leekfe@eecg.toronto.edu (Kim Fung Edward Lee)
Subject: Cantonese Romanization (Re: Sorry, here is the REAL chinese
Organization: CSRI, University of Toronto
Date: 7 Oct 92 15:57:15 GMT

In article <ld4a1tINNa6q@spim.mti.sgi.com> yhmok@shark.mti.sgi.com (Yeuk-Hai -Shark- Mok) writes:
>In article <1992Oct6.214055.26960@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>, cfs2b@fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU (Chun Fai Szeto) writes:
>|> 	It is a very good idea to post those charts in Chinese. 
>|> Every people should realize some of the Cantonese translation is
>|> rarely suitable in English.  So please keep doing these Chinese
>|> stuff,  I think most people would agree with me.
>|> 
>	I agreed with you but I looked up the PinYin  she posted and they are
>correct.  Its the standard way to write cantonese in Romanized form and I think
>everyone should learn that...... I think I've said too much.
>
>	Shark at SGI

	I think that it's pretty good to know both Mandarin PinYin 
and Cantonese PinYin.... although our fellow netters might prefer 
Cantonese.... :-)

	I learned Mandarin Zhu4 Yin1 symbols since 4 and picked
up the PinYin romanization mostly through learning the names
of my fellow Mainland Chinese Scholars/Grad students in my lab
in the past few yrs..... 

	That helped me a lot in picking up the Cantonese PinYin 
in a lightning speed.... And I find it extremely useful in using
Chinese Word processors..... I could find a Chinese Character 
in 2-3 seconds using either Cantonese or Mandarin PinYin and
didn't even had to know special search method..... 

	and for the third time, for those netters who are relatively
new to SCHK, I am advertising one of the Cantonese Romanization system
proposed by Anthony Wong from UC Berkeley on March 91. That was
where I learned my Cantonese Romanization.....
Here is the original message from Anthony Wong

##########################################################################	
Dear soc.culture.hongkong news subscribers:

	I would like to propose a system for "spelling" Cantonese
words on the network.  The system is influenced by two factors:

	Keyboard Compatibility
	Characteristics of Cantonese
								
The reason I am doing this is that because the way Cantonese is
spelt on this network is not uniform.  A uniform system would
increase readability, although it takes some time for everyone
to get used to the system.  Another motivation is the success
of the "Hanyu Pinyin" system used to spell Mandarin (Putonghua).

As far as I can see, the difficulty in adapting to the system
is the tendency to pronounce the spelling the English way,
(e.g. SE is "write", not "poem") and getting used to the
new symbol "@", which does not exist in the English alphabet.

By no means I am forcing everyone to use this spelling system.
If you would like to use your own spelling system, please do so.
No flames on the network please.

If you have any suggestions or criticisms, please send me email at
		aywong@ohm.berkeley.edu

(For readability, it is better to save the file, print it out
and read it, rather than reading it page by page on the terminal,
because this is quite long an article.)

		Spelling System for Cantonese

Historically, Chinese linguistics divided each syllable into the
Sheng (initial consonant) part, the Yun (everything following the
initial consonant) part and the Diao (tone) part.  I will follow
this practice and introduce these 3 in the above order.  Then the
rules for the usage will be discussed.  (By the way, upper case
and lower case is irrelevant in the system.)

I.	Sheng Mu (initial consonant)
	
	There are 19 Cantonese initial vowels (20 if you count
the null initial consonant).  

	Spelling	| Examples / pronunciation
	----------------+---------------------------------------
Labials
	 B	 	| Ba (father), Bing (ice)
	 P		| Pa (fear), Ping (level)
	 M		| Ma (mother), Mong (see)
	 F		| Fa (flower), Fong (square)
Dentals
	 D		| Da (hit), Dong (should)
	 T 		| Ta (he), Tong (soup)
	 N		| Nan (difficult), Ning (serene)
	 L		| Lan (orchid), Ling (zero)
Velars
	 G		| Ga (family), Ging (capital)
	 K		| Ka (train cart), King (whale)
	 NG		| Nga (tooth), Ngong (idiotic)
	 H		| Ha (shrimp), Hong (Row)
Rounding Velars
	 GW		| Gwa (melon), Gwong (bright)
	 KW		| Kwa (exaggerate), Kwong (mad)
Affricates
	 DZ		| (kind of like J as in Judge)
			|	DZa (residue), DZing (crystal)
			|	DZoi (again), DZue (reside)
	 TS		| (kind of like CH as in CHURCH)
			|	TSa (tea), TSing (clear)
			|	TSoi (vegetable), TSue (pole)
	 S		| Sa (sand), Sing (star)
Glides
	 Y		| Yi (two), Ying (eagle)
	 W		| Wa (frog), Wong (yellow)
Null initial consonant
	 not written	| ap (duck), on (saddle)

II.	Yun Mu (everything following the initial consonant)
	
	There are 53 Cantonese Yun values

	Spelling	| Examples / pronunciation
	----------------+---------------------------------------
Vowels
	 A 		| bA (father), mA (mother)
	 E 		| sE (write), tsE (car)
	 I		| sI (poem), dzI (know)
	 O		| fO (fire), hO (river)
	 U 		| fU (tiger), gU (mushroom)
	 OE		| (like German O WITH UMLAUT)
			| 	hOE (boot)
			|	hOEng (fragrant), gOEk (foot)
	 UE		| (like German U WITH UMLAUT)
			| 	sUE (book), dzUE (pig), 
			|	tsUE (pole), yUE (fish)
Diphthongs (two vowels combined)
	 AI		| dAI (large), gAI (street)
	 AU		| gAU (plastic), hAU (school)
	 (@ is the short "ah" sound, kind of like U as in bUn;
	  whereas A is the long "ah" sound, like A as in fAther)
	 (By the way, "@" is selected to resemble "a")
	 @I		| d@I (low), t@I (ladder),
			| 	s@I (west), m@I (rice)
	 @U		| d@U (bean), t@U (head)
			| 	f@U (float), h@U (monkey)
	 EI		| bEI (give), pEI (skin)
	 IU		! bIU (watch), pIU (ticket)
	 OI		| dOI (pocket), gOI (correct)
	 OU		| dOU (island), tOU (peach)
	 OEY		| tOEY (push), kOEY (district)
			| 	tsOEY (blow), sOEY (water)
	 UI		| mUI (coal), fUI (ash)
Nasal M endings
	 AM		| sAM (three), gAM (prison)
	 @M		| s@M (heart), g@M (gold)
			| 	dz@M (needle), y@M (drink)
	 IM		| dIM (dot), tIM (sweet)
Nasal N endings
	 AN		| sAN (mountain), mAN (slow)
	 @N		| s@N (new), dz@N (real)
			| 	g@N (root), k@N (near)
	 IN		| bIN (edge), tIN (field)
	 ON		| gON (hurry), hON (look)
	 UN		| bUN (half), mUN (full)
	 OEN		| tOEN (shield), sOEN (letter)
			|	tsOEN (stupid), dOEN (blunt)
	 UEN		| sUEN (sour), yUEN (circle)
			|	gUEN (donate), dUEN (short)
Nasal NG endings
	 ANG		| mANG (blind), sANG (province)
	 @NG		| p@NG (friend), d@NG (lamp), 	
			| 	g@NG (spoon), dz@NG (hate)
	 ENG		| bENG (ill), gENG (mirror)
	 ING		| sING (star), tsING (clear)
	 ONG		| bONG (help), pONG (side)
	 UNG		| dUNG (east), dzUNG (middle)
	 OENG		| hOENG (fragrant), sOENG (up)
			| 	gOENG (ginger), kOENG (strong)
Stop P endings
	 AP		| tAP (pagoda), lAP (wax)
	 @P		| g@P (hurry), k@P (give),
			|	s@P (ten), y@P (enter)
	 IP		| dzIP (fold), yIP (leaf)
Stop T endings
	 AT		| bAT (eight), sAT (kill)
	 @T		| m@T (socks), f@T (punish),
			| 	k@T (cough), ts@T (seven)
	 IT		| dIT (fall), tIT (iron)
	 OT		| hOT (thirsty), gOT (cut)
	 UT		| fUT (wide), mUT (wipe)
	 OET		| dzOET (pawn in chess), tsOET (go out),
			| 	lOET (order), sOET (shirt)
	 UET		| sUET (snow), yUET (moon),
			| 	hUET (blood), lUET (bad)
Stop K endings
	 AK		| bAK (white), dzAK (narrow)
	 @K		| b@K (north), m@K (wheat),
			| 	dz@K (side), s@K (clog)
	 EK		| sEK (kiss), tEK (kick)
	 IK		| sIK (eat), dzIK (straight)
	 OK		| gwOK (nation), lOK (down)
	 UK		| mUK (wood), dUK (poison)
	 OEK		| gOEK (foot), dzOEK (bird),
			| 	tsOEK (table), yOEK (medicine)
Syllabic Nasals
	 M		| M (negation)
	 NG		| NG (a last name)

III.	Diao (tones)
								
	The tone numbers are optional and are placed right after
each "word".

	Historically, linguists consider that Cantonese has 9 tones.
The pitch is indicated by the system by Chao: 5 is the highest in
pitch and 1 is the lowest in pitch.

	Number	| Name & Pitch	| Examples
	--------+---------------+-------------------------------
		(VOWEL, M, N, NG endings)
	 1	| Yin Ping   55 | si1 (poem),	 f@n1 (divide)
	 2	| Yin Shang  35 | si2 (history), f@n2 (flour)
	 3	| Yin Qu     44 | si3 (try),	 f@n3 (sleep)
	 4	| Yang Ping  11 | si4 (time),	 f@n4 (burn)
	 5	| Yang Shang 23 | si5 (city),	 f@n5 (angry)
	 6	| Yang Qu    22 | si6 (yes),	 f@n6 (fraction)
		(P, T, K endings)
	 7	| Yin Ru     55 | (pitchwise like 1)
		|		|   sik7 (know), s@P7 (wet)
	 8	| Zhong Ru   44 | (pitchwise like 3)
		|		|   sek8 (kiss), tAP8 (pagoda)
	 9	| Yang Ru    22 | (pitchwise like 6)
		|		|   sik9 (eat),  s@P9 (ten)

IV.	Rules

	1. An initial "I" or an initial "UE" is always preceded
	   by a Y.
	   e.g. YI (two), YIm (salt),
		YUE (fish), YUEn (circle)

	2. An initial "U" is always preceded by a W, EXCEPT for
	   the U in "UNG" and "UK".
	   e.g.     WU (lake), WUn (change)
		but UNG (urn), UK (house)

	3. The purpose of putting tone numbers after the word is
	   to avoid confusion.  Hence, if there is no confusion,
	   or the meaning is clear from the context, the
	   tone numbers can be left out.

	4. Compound words composed of more than one Chinese 
	   character may be OPTIONALLY written with hyphens
	   separating the parts.
		e.g. din-nou (computer), gwong-dung-wa (Cantonese)

V.	Examples:

	1. Tang Poetry (Silent Night Thoughts by Li Bai)

		Tsong4 tsin4 ming4 yuet9 gwong1
		Yi4 si6 dei6 soeng6 soeng1
		Goey2 t@u4 mong6 ming4 yuet9
		D@i1 t@u4 si1 gu3 hoeng1

	   (without tone numbers)

		Tsong Tsin Ming Yuet Gwong
		Yi Si Dei Soeng Soeng
		Goey T@u Mong Ming Yuet
		D@i T@u Si Gu Hoeng

	2. Love in Deep Autumn (by Alan Tam)

		Yue gwo, ming loey dzo dzue ding f@n s@u
		Mou soey, w@i ngo ga yi wan l@u
		Yue gwo, tsing si wing h@ng b@t n@u
		Dz@m wui f@n s@u

		Yi h@u, yoeng ngo yi dzoi s@m ts@u
		Wui yik, s@i hoey dik ngoi dzoi s@m t@u
		Wui yik, dzoi gei yik dzung dik ngo
		G@m tim ts@ng leoy l@u

		Tsing toi t@u, mut hoey g@u si
		b@t bit y@u ngo, b@t bit y@u nei
		Ngoi si ho fat b@t ho s@u
		Nei si ho ngoi dou wing yuen
		Ngo si dz@n s@m se b@t d@k nei dz@u

		Y@u y@t, yoeng nei yi dzoi s@m ts@u
		Wui yik, bit hoey dik ngo dzoi s@m t@u
		Wui yik, dzoi dze y@t hak dik nei
		Ya ts@ng leoy l@u
	
########################################################################

Enjoy!

**************************************************************************
*         Raymond Y. V. Chik               |_           \           _|   *
*         VLSI Research Grp.                 ||      --------     ||     *
*         Dept. of Elec. Eng.               _||o-+   | -+-+-   +-o||_    *
*         U. of Toronto                    |     |   |  +-+    |     |   *
*                                          |_    |   |  _|_    |    _|   *
*Internet:    chik@vrg.toronto.edu           ||--+   | | | |   +--||     *
*                                           _||     /  | | |      ||_    *
*      8-)      >-(      |-<       %->     |             |           |   *
*                                                                        *
*     NOTE:	 I'm only using a friend's account                       *
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