HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ehudon@reed.edu (Elizabeth Hudon)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: World Creation
Keywords: setting vs. story elements
Date: 26 Aug 92 09:05:59 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Aug26.090559.10889
Followup-To: World Creation
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR


Alan writes:

>I used to be a perfectionist, wanting an imaginary universe to pop full 
blown into my head.  I now believe that the patchwork creative process 
>(which is the only way it seems to work) is wonderful, because the 
>tension between two wild ideas often produces an interesting explaination.

Yes! This *perfectionism* is a huge obstacle for me. I choke on world
creation, because I feel so uncomfortable with what I feel are 
arbitrary decisions about a world which will ultimately come off
as artificial or affected. 

I also hesitate to fill a story with too many details about the way
things work, which I suppose is an indication that I haven't found a 
to balance setting and the demands of the storyline.

Any others with similar problems?

Elizabeth (ehudon@reed.edu)
From: curtis@berkeley.edu (Curtis Yarvin)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: Science vs. story in SF (Was: World Creation)
Date: 29 Aug 92 23:03:29 GMT
Article-I.D.: pasteur.1992Aug29.230329.20188
Organization: CS Dept. Snakepit - Do Not Feed.

In article <14712@mindlink.bc.ca> Crawford_Kilian@mindlink.bc.ca (Crawford Kilian) writes:
>I should be posting another "Work in Progress" item (and will, I hope, a little
>later today, but the discussion on technology & science in SF has provoked me
>into going into my dreaded Literary Theorist mode...

Oh no!  Rope down the cows, Maw, and hide them kids!  It's an academic!

>Modern SF is a hybrid of two very old literary forms, one intellectual and the
>other popular. The "anatomy" or "Menippean satire" is a study of the world as
>seen in terms of one dominant idea. Its concerns are the follies of
>scholarship, the ideal society, the moral aspects of language, the importance
>of documents as objects in themselves. Anatomy is not much concerned with
>character or plot, so events may move slowly while cardboard characters debate
>the issues of the tale.
>
>The popular genre is the heroic romance, whose plot is usually some kind of
>perilous quest to achieve a restoration of the obscure hero to his proper
>place--the throne. Here we have travels, strange beasts, ordeals, sexual
>threats, and everything else that makes prime time TV so stimulating.

This is, alas, so.  

Personally, I have some trouble deciding which of the two forms
I loathe most.  Marooned on a desert island with but one book,
would I prefer Eddings or Le Guin?  Rather throw myself to the
sharks.  There are some fates too awful to contemplate.

Yet I still read SF.  For the exceptions; the ones neither
idea-constipated fish nor gory sweaty fowl.  There are a
few people in the SF biz who don't write anatomies or
heroic romances, or even (a la Gibson) bastard breeds of
the two.  Lucius Shepard; Geoff Ryman; Richard Grant; 
a few more, not too many.

But enough to convince me that there's no genre of fiction
which cannot be profitably used in a speculative setting.

c
"Except poems."
From: fish@hpscit.sc.hp.com (John Fisher)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: FUNSIES: Antonymous Collectives
Date: 1 Sep 92 16:37:24 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Clara, CA


A block of writers???

Ack!  I can't believe I did this!


John Fisher at Hewlett-Packard |
in Santa Clara, CA             |  Insanity is just a state of mind.
fish@hpscit.hp.com             | 
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: bf455@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Bonita Kale)
Subject: Electronic publication
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 10:12:59 GMT



I've got the info (temporarily mislaid--I'll find it after I wake up, no
doubt) on ClariNet (sp?), a plan to publish reprint short stories and
reimburse authors depending on how many subscribers ($5.00 a month) to the
service download their stories. 

Anyone got an opinion on whether this would put your story in the public
domain? 


Bonita Kale
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: bf455@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Bonita Kale)
Subject: Re: Pulphouse magazines and SF Age info
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 10:15:15 GMT




In a previous article, chuq@Apple.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) says:
>
>I read the galleys of the first issue of Tomorrow SF last week when I was up
>visiting Pulphouse, and it's an interesting magazine. If you're interested
>in Analog-type fiction, TSF is something you ought to take a look at.


Do you have an editorial address for Tomorrow?

Bonita Kale
Organization: Arizona State University
Date: Tuesday, 25 Aug 1992 10:33:19 MST
From: <KVJLC@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject:    Horror writers, Inc.


  Members of this genre are not required to explain the rationale behind
the dark passages of the novel or short story.  Explainations are useless
unless you -- fellow writer -- can dwell in the mind of darkness and feel
the pain and suffering of our nightmares.  Horror, pain, and death are
common.  The torment of our existence is relentless, and release from the
constant throbbing can only be found is sharing with others.

  Of course, this is only fiction -- right?
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: mtan@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Maureen Tan)
Subject: Re: First one to correct the typo wins
Followup-To: misc.writing
Organization: UIUC
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 16:22:09 GMT

In article <mtan-280892084759@maureen.cen.uiuc.edu>, mtan@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu
(Maureen Tan) wrote:
> 
> In article <14670@mindlink.bc.ca>, Alan_Barclay@mindlink.bc.ca (Alan
> Barclay) wrote:
> > 
> > This is what I do when I submit a story to a magazine:
> 
> (Lots of good stuff omitted.)
> 
>  
> Oops!  In item #7, I suspect that Alan means six WEEKS, not six months!
> (Typo or Freudian slip, Alan?)  And, although Alan's outline is fantastic,
> if you
> haven't done so already, I'd suggest you get the WRITER'S MARKET or
> similar book or magazine so that you can check specific editorial
> guidelines
> for the magazine you're sending  your manuscript to.  It'll save you
> postage
> and frustration.
> 
> Maureen (a.k.a. Jane) 

I am told via e-mail that this was NOT a typo.  Six MONTHS?!!
How do you scifi folks eat?

Maureen (I stand appalled, but corrected) Tan  
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: curtis@cs.berkeley.edu (Curtis Yarvin)
Subject: Re: Editing on Computer or Hardcopy
Organization: CS Dept. Snakepit - Do Not Feed.
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 17:25:49 GMT

In article <1992Sep2.180831.25822@gallant.apple.com> chuq@gallant.apple.com (Chuq Von Rospach) writes:
>thomas@datamark.co.nz (Thomas Beagle) writes:
>
>>I used to say that I could never edit on a computer screen.
>
>On a psychological level, you're only seeing small chunks of the text.

Get a bigger monitor and an editor that does columns right.

With a good 17" monitor you can fit more text on a screen than
a piece of paper.  It costs a heap, but it's worth it.

c
Xref: sparky misc.writing:2751 rec.humor:27512
From: andy@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Andrew Hackard)
Newsgroups: misc.writing,rec.humor
Subject: FUNSIES: Antonymous Collectives
Date: 1 Sep 92 01:45:54 GMT
Followup-To: misc.writing,rec.humor
Organization: Attack of the Quayle Potatoes

Many people have in the past posted lists of collective nouns, both real
and fake, appropriate and humorous.  I'd like to try something different
-- a list of the LEAST appropriate (but, ideally, still humorous) collective
nouns.

A quick primer: Collective nouns are nouns used to describe groups of
objects, e.g. a school of fish, a pod of whales, a flock of geese.  The
terminology sometimes ranges to the odd end of the spectrum, and this
has led multiple people to invent new collective nouns, from the
automotive (a ring of Saturns) to the mathematical (a group of abstract
algebras) to the silly (a school of marms).

Examples of what I'm shooting for here:

-- a battalion of pacifists
-- a congregation of atheists
-- a steady stream of cataracts
-- an orgy of virgins

You get the idea.

No prizes to be awarded, except the admiration and respect of your Usenet
peers.  Go to it, and may the worst collective win!

-- Andrew, who may shortly be sorry he got this idea

-- 
"Me and you, a two man crew, 
 side by side we are united,
 we will never be divided...."

                                                  Au revoir, mon cherie.
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: dipakb@sco.COM (Dipak Basu)
Subject: Post-publication Woes
Organization: The Santa Cruz Operation, Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1992 19:36:33 GMT


I attended the Bay Area Writers' Workshop last Saturday and found a
surprising amount of attention focussed on promotion of a 
book by its author, after it had been selected for publication.

Publishers and bookstore owners agreed that the selection and promotion
of a book by them was in direct proportion to the amount of effort its
author put in.  This included research into applicable regions where the
book would be popular, preparing lists of relevant bookstores, doing
literary readings around the country, preparing summaries of the book,
etc.  There didn't seem to be a difference here whether the author had an
agent or not.

And I thought the trials of the writer ended after the tortuous manuscript
submission process!   Do you successful authors agree?
What is the ratio of time you spend between writing and promoting?

Dipak.
From: Crawford_Kilian@mindlink.bc.ca (Crawford Kilian)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: Work in Progress: Outline
Date: 31 Aug 92 23:29:10 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

Tony Bible (who, with a name like that, is surely doomed to publish!) asks why,
in a book about magic, I can't just have a magic ring to permit
translation...well, you can get away with that in SF, but in fantasy life is
more realistic!

Del Rey fantasies require magic as an integral plot element, but magic has its
limits; you can do some things with it, but not everything. The story emerges
from those limits. My hero's magic is a kind of judo, encouraging the world to
do what it wants to do anyway (grow plants, maintain an ecological balance,
etc.)--but other kinds of magic force the world to do what it would normally
never do, and wreck it in the process.

It's actually pretty stimulating to work out what magic can and cannot do, and
then develop a plot to show it. Have I answered your question, Tony?
From: chuq@gallant.apple.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: Pulphouse magazines
Date: 27 Aug 92 16:13:03 GMT
Organization: I is a writur

miuvdd@lure.latrobe.edu.au writes:

>I would be very interested to know when MYSTERY STREET it launched.
>So I would appreciate it if someone could let me know if they see
>for sale (or perhaps could you email it;s publishing address). Otherwise
>my chances of obtaining a copy down under are very slim.

MYSTERY STREET will be publicly announced with an ad in the first issue of
TOMORROW SPECULATIVE FICTION. I don't have any further details than that
yet. When I do, I'll pass them along. I expect Dean will be talking about it
at some length at Worldcon.

-- 
Chuq "IMHO" Von Rospach, ESD Support & Training (DAL/AUX) =+= Member, SFWA
  chuq@apple.com | GEnie: MAC.BIGOT | ALink:CHUQ =+= Editor, OtherRealms
	A real SF writur with stories in ALTERNATE KENNEDYS and THE 
	  FURTHER ADVENTURES OF BATMAN, in better bookstores now!
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: bible@iastate.edu (Anthony E Bible)
Subject: Re: Work in Progress: Outline
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 19:48:05 GMT

In article <14756@mindlink.bc.ca> Crawford_Kilian@mindlink.bc.ca (Crawford Kilian) writes:
>Tony Bible (who, with a name like that, is surely doomed to publish!) asks why,

:)
	[Aside: it is not an extremely common name.  My standard line to "Where
		did you get a name like that?" is: It was a birthday present
		from my father.  Actual origins, I am told, is from people who
		made hand copies of the Bible before there were printing
		presses; they were called Biblers.]


>in a book about magic, I can't just have a magic ring to permit
>translation...well, you can get away with that in SF, but in fantasy life is
>more realistic!
>
>Del Rey fantasies require magic as an integral plot element, but magic has its
>limits; you can do some things with it, but not everything. The story emerges
>from those limits. My hero's magic is a kind of judo, encouraging the world to
>do what it wants to do anyway (grow plants, maintain an ecological balance,
>etc.)--but other kinds of magic force the world to do what it would normally
>never do, and wreck it in the process.
>
>It's actually pretty stimulating to work out what magic can and cannot do, and
>then develop a plot to show it. Have I answered your question, Tony?

	Yes, although it does bring up another question or two.  You say this
is a Del Rey requirement.  Does that mean other publishers have different
requirements for their fantasy novels?  If so, then are Del Rey fantasies --
er, make that fantasy novels; I don't want to pry -- a separate genre unto 
themselves?  And finally, did you know about this restriction before you wrote 
the first novel?  And (really finally) how did you find out about this 
requirement?
	It does sound like an interesting chore to sort out what is and is not
allowed.

Regards,
tony
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: nigel@ietech.demon.co.uk ("Nigel G. Backhurst")
Subject: Legal Aspects of Pen-Names -- query 
Distribution: world
Organization: IE Technical Services Holland
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 01:18:19 +0000


In article <1992Sep1.000449.27645@gallant.apple.com> chuq@gallant.apple.com writes:

>
>The big question is why to use a pen name? Generally, they're a big pain in
>the neck and if you ask me, not worth it 99% of the time.
>

1. To avoid confusion.  I write non-fiction articles and books. I also
write fiction, often with a technical background.  I don't want anybody
who knows be as a non-fiction writer picking up some of my fiction and
thinking it is non-fiction.  Which has happened to a friend of mine.

2. Contractual obligations.  A friend who is a reasonably selling author
has a contract with a publisher to write a number of novels.  She also
writes ``pulp romantic fiction'' which provides here with most of her
income.  The publisher of her `serious' work insists that she does not
identify herself as the writer of the pulp.

3. Social standing.  I don't know what it is like in the States, but
there are parts of European society where writing is still frowned upon.
I have recently failed to get a large consultancy contract because it
was felt that `my writing activities might conflict with our interests'.

4. Pyschological factors.  I use two different pen names for my fiction
work.  I find that when I am working under the different names the writing
style and form are completely different.  At a meeting early this year
this aspect was discussed by a group of writers, and all stated that if
they wanted to write in a certain style they had to work under a pen name.

5. Not bandwaggoning.  A number of successful writers like to use pen
names to:

  (a) test that it is their writing that sells and not their name.
  (b) try new things out without risking their reputation.

6. Tax Avoidence.  It is far easier to avoid the Tax Man if your work is
not on the book shelves in your name.  Especially if it is published in
another country and payment is into an offshore account.  Totally illegal,
but without doubt it goes on.

Nigel

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Nigel Backhurst ( nigel@ietech.demon.co.uk )
c/o 88 Ashburton Road, Hugglescote, Coalville, LE6 2LX, U.K.
p/a IE Technical Services Holland, Deventerstr 150, 7321 CE Apeldoorn
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Xref: sparky misc.writing:2681 rec.arts.sf.written:11494
From: rudoff@mdd.comm.mot.com (Doug Rudoff)
Newsgroups: misc.writing,rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Pulphouse magazines and SF Age info
Date: 26 Aug 92 17:27:11 GMT
Organization: Motorola, Mobile Data Division - Seattle, WA


I will complement Pulphouse and SF Age on their editorial response
times. I've been trying to get a story published since January this
year.

Pulphouse took a week and a half to reject it with a form letter
signed by an assistant editor. (However it seems that there is no
place I can find in Seattle that sells Pulphouse.)

SF Age took one week to reject it with a form letter and a nice one
sentence note handwritten by the editor, Scott Edelmen.
-- 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Doug Rudoff          Motorola, Seattle    INTERNET:rudoff@mdd.comm.mot.com
                                            USENET:uunet!mdisea!rudoff   
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: mtan@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Maureen Tan)
Subject: Re: Language Lists (was Re: Work in Progress: Proposal
Followup-To: misc.writing
Organization: UIUC
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 20:29:44 GMT

In article <BtJv64.8yy@unx.sas.com>, sasafw@dobo.unx.sas.com (Fred Welden)
wrote:
> 
> 
> In article <ELIZ.92Aug25113813@peduncle.ai.mit.edu>, eliz@ai.mit.edu (Elizabeth Willey) writes:
> |This discussion reminds me of Lin Carter's original fantasy, which was
> |painstakingly built up from the ground, or so he thought, and cannot
> |be read with a straight face now.
> |
> |I don't sweat these questions, myself; I'm more worried about making
> |the characters three-dimensional than whether they have two-, three-,
> |or four-pronged eating utensils.  It is too easy to get bogged down in
> |details of clothing and taxonomy and end up writing a dead book.  The
> |flow of the human story is the first priority.  But different books
> |have different writers and different stresses.
> 
> Whoa, watch out, this is leading us right back into the old
> Reserach in Fiction thread.  I agree with you completely, of
> course, but I fear we are in the minority among posters to this
> group.

I don't know if you're in the minority, but your POV gets my vote.

Maureen (a.k.a. Jane)
From: sascmc@pecos.unx.sas.com (Christopher Mark Conn)
Subject: short story writing vs. novel writing
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 17:12:26 GMT
Organization: SAS Institute Inc.

I've got a question for you experienced fiction writers:

How important do you think it is to write short stories
(and I'm thinking primarily of writing SF) before you 
tackle a novel?  

-- 
______________________________________________________________________________
Christopher Mark Conn                                       sascmc@unx.sas.com
Systems Administrator / AIX Host Development         
SAS Institute Inc. PO Box 200075 Austin, Texas 78720-0075 (512) 258-5171 X3369
From: Crawford_Kilian@mindlink.bc.ca (Crawford Kilian)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: Science vs. story in SF (Was: World Cre
Date: 30 Aug 92 02:58:36 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

Why would anyone go to the trouble of "loathing" a literary form? Would anyone
hate a haiku, scorn a sonnet, abjure an alliterative poem? If anatomy isn't to
one's taste, one avoids anatomy. If space opera palls, avoid space opera. It's
not as if a form, in itself, is automatically going to be politically noxious
or morally contaminating (though China, with its periodic "spirtual pollution"
campaigns, might suggest otherwise). If we don't enjoy low-plot, high-debate
literary forms, we might ask ourselves why not...and what is it about
high-plot, low-debate genres that interests us?
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: mtan@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Maureen Tan)
Subject: Re: First one to correct the typo wins
Followup-To: misc.writing
Organization: UIUC
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 15:22:23 GMT

In article <1992Aug29.110126.28400@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>,
bf455@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Bonita Kale) wrote:
> 
> 
> References: <mtan-280892113243@maureen.cen.uiuc.edu> <14670@mindlink.bc.ca> <mtan-280892084759@maureen.cen.uiuc.edu>
> 
> 
> In a previous article, mtan@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Maureen Tan) says:
> >>  
> >> Oops!  In item #7, I suspect that Alan means six WEEKS, not six months!
> >> (Typo or Freudian slip, Alan?)
> >...
> >I am told via e-mail that this was NOT a typo.  Six MONTHS?!!
> >How do you scifi folks eat?
> >
> >Maureen (I stand appalled, but corrected) Tan  
> >
> 
> Maureen,
> 
> Where do you find shorter fiction response times than that?  Among
> publishers of children's books, as I know to my sorrow, they are often much
> longer.  I generally figure anything over three months is too long, but I
> too don't inquire until six months.
> 
> By the way, I have never had any but a polite (usually not too helpful, but
> polite) response to a telephoned inquiry to a book publisher after six
> months.  And at least you make contact with a person, while your letter may
> sit unanswered for another six months.
> 
> Bonita Kale

"Jeez," she replied as she affected a look of wide-eyed innocence,
 "I've always been rejected immediately."

Actually, there's more truth to that than I  really want to
admit.  After reading the various responses to my rather off-
handed original post, I'm inclined to think that I've
simply been very lucky  and (since my bread-and-butter income
doesn't depend on steadily marketing my fiction) I probably haven't
sent out nearly the number of  ms. and stories needed to get a 
better feel for the reality of the business.     

Maureen (a.k.a. Jane)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: sasafw@dobo.unx.sas.com (Fred Welden)
Subject: Re: Language Lists (was Re: Work in Progress: Proposal
Originator: sasafw@dobo.unx.sas.com
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 17:27:40 GMT
Organization: Dobonia


In article <ELIZ.92Aug25113813@peduncle.ai.mit.edu>, eliz@ai.mit.edu (Elizabeth Willey) writes:
|This discussion reminds me of Lin Carter's original fantasy, which was
|painstakingly built up from the ground, or so he thought, and cannot
|be read with a straight face now.
|
|I don't sweat these questions, myself; I'm more worried about making
|the characters three-dimensional than whether they have two-, three-,
|or four-pronged eating utensils.  It is too easy to get bogged down in
|details of clothing and taxonomy and end up writing a dead book.  The
|flow of the human story is the first priority.  But different books
|have different writers and different stresses.

Whoa, watch out, this is leading us right back into the old
Reserach in Fiction thread.  I agree with you completely, of
course, but I fear we are in the minority among posters to this
group.

-- 
--Fred, or another blind 8th-century BC  |  sasafw@dobo.unx.sas.com
        Hellenic poet of the same name.  |
From: miuvdd@lure.latrobe.edu.au
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: Pulphouse magazines
Date: 26 Aug 92 22:51:50 GMT
Organization: VAX Cluster, Computer Centre, La Trobe University

In article <71661@apple.Apple.COM>, chuq@Apple.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) writes:
> Pulphouse magazine has just closed to submissions until September 1993
> because their inventory is bulging. Effective tomorrow, all submissions
> get returned unopened for a year or so because they have 18 months of
> inventory hanging. The good side of this is that when they re-open
> submissions, they'll be paying on contract instead of on delivery of
> galleys.  This doesn't affect their other magazines. REPORT, TOMORROW
> SF (Ajay's new magazine) and MYSTERY STREET (which is about to be
> announced, but doesn't officially exist yet) are all reading.


I would be very interested to know when MYSTERY STREET it launched.
So I would appreciate it if someone could let me know if they see
for sale (or perhaps could you email it;s publishing address). Otherwise
my chances of obtaining a copy down under are very slim.

Thanks!

Morgana
miuvdd@lure.latrobe.edu.au
**********************************************************************
Reality is for people who can't handle decent fiction...
********************************************************************** 
Newsgroups: misc.writing