From: gdb15@grebe.cl.cam.ac.uk (Guy Barry)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Understanding
Date: 20 Dec 92 19:23:01 GMT
Reply-To: gdb15@cl.cam.ac.uk
Organization: U of Cambridge Computer Lab, UK

[Sorry for jumping in on a group that doesn't really "belong" to me,
but I've found this thread very interesting, and having jumped in
once I may as well do it again!]

In article <1992Dec20.004841.28248@dsg.cs.tcd.ie> cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Ciaran McHale) writes:
>In <1992Dec17.060501.1588@news.acns.nwu.edu>
>Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu (Albert Lunde) writes:
>
>>[Re: "men can't understand (the oppression of) women and visa versa]
>
>>Roughly, I would say that I think it is *possible* for men to understand
>>women and women to understand men, and that it is a lot *easier*
>>for women to understand men than vis-versa. (Because of the 
>>assymetry of oppression.)
>
>I agree.
>
>>I would contrast this with saying that men can't understand women
>>or that men and women can't understand each other.
>>
>>I would rather be told that I don't understand than I can't understand.
>
>Again, I agree.

I would say that when a member of group B says of another group A that
"A's can't understand B's", they're actually saying "I don't *want*
A's to understand B's", or (implicitly) "I don't want A's to
understand *me*".  If person X wants to understand person Y, and
person Y wants to be understood, then there's no reason why
understanding shouldn't take place.  Saying that A's can't understand
B's is self-fulfilling, because it automatically puts up a barrier.

>Here is how it is for me.
>
>	When it comes to learning principles from listening to the
>	experiences of others, I am a slow learner. Thus, if a woman
>	told me her experiences of XYZ and why it gets to her, I
>	probably wouldn't "get it." So she might have to tell me again.
>	And again. And again. Or better still, if different women _each_
>	told me their experiences then _eventually_ I would start to
>	"get it."
>
>Of course, it would probably be very frustrating for all these women to
>have to realte their experiences to me repeatedly until I "got it" and
>then to have to repeat the process again for the next guy who comes
>along. [BTW, this situation applies equally well to straight people who
>don't "get" GLB issues and have to have it explained to them
>repeatedly. If you're GLB and have been on the receiving end of this
>questioning for long enough then you are probably also frustrated with
>the apparent lack of ability of straight people to "get it."]

Why not try to empathize *first*, and rationalize afterwards?  In
other words, if someone tells you they feel hurt or angered or
betrayed or whatever by a particular experience, just imagine a
situation where you've felt hurt or angered or betrayed yourself.
Even if you haven't had the same experience, you've certainly felt the
same emotion (the range of human emotions is universal as far as I'm
aware!).  From that position it's a lot easier to understand the
other person's experience than if you just do it on an intellectual level.

>What works for me (your mileage may vary) is to find a book which
>contains personal accounts written by a large number of women, where
>each account discusses that woman's experience of XYZ. In this way, the
>women only need to relate their experinces once and since the book can
>be mass-printed, many men can hear (read) all these experiences easliy
>and repeatedly.

That's certainly very useful if you want to gain an appreciation of
the experiences of women *in general*, but it's not the same as
relating on an individual level.

>	o Once the book has been produced, a woman who has been asked by
>	  a man to relate her experiences of XYZ can say "Here's a
>	  great book on the topic. Why don't you read that instead."

That just sounds like a cop-out.  No book can be a substitute for
someone's individual experiences.  Reading the book *as well* as
hearing the person's experiences may be useful, since it serves
to put them in a broader context, but just giving someone a
book is absolving yourself of the responsibility of having to
relate your own experiences honestly.

--
Guy Barry, University of Cambridge | Phone: +44 (0)223 334757 
Computer Laboratory                | Fax: +44 (0)223 334678
New Museums Site, Pembroke Street  | JANET: Guy.Barry@uk.ac.cam.cl 
Cambridge CB2 3QG, England, UK     | Internet: Guy.Barry@cl.cam.ac.uk 
Newsgroups: soc.bi