From: petel@sequent.com (Pete Lancashire)
Subject: Re: Please Don't Spank!
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.
Distribution: misc
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 17:14:40 GMT

seanna@bnr.ca (Seanna Watson) writes:

>>   > Please don't spank! Don't teach obediance!>  
>>   > (stuff deleted)
>>   > We as parents are not here to "dicipline" our "wild" children. We
>>   > are here to nurture them and be an example. 
>>     (stuff deleted)
>>
>>   I agree completely.  I think spanking is merely an outlet for the parent's
>>   emotions.  The child running around in the restaurant is a good example. It

An interesting study was done with the above example, but getting good
scientific data was a problem and the study never published. Children in
public settings, restaurents, malls, etc. were observed and their behavior
put into catagories, quiet, noisy, wild, I don't remember the actual
break down, but you can get the idea. The parents were them asked
(those that went along :-) the problem of 'good data'), and asked how
they diciplined their children. The correlation I remember the most was
those that used spanking as the 'routine' method of dicipline had the most
'misbehaved' children.

>>   is the adult that is embarrased and frustrated at being embarassed. When a
>>   child runs into the street, it is the parent who is frightened and upset at
>>   being scared.  Spanking is the parent's emotional outlet; it deals with
>>   their problem not the child's.

>that they are also using non-physical methods where possible.  Someone (I
>think it was Misty) even said that there is a distinction made between spanking
>for discipline and spanking in anger.

My concern is can the child understand the difference between discipline
and anger, i.e. physical pain = dicipline/concern vs. physical pain = anger.

>(non-spanking) situations.) Remember that most people who spank are as appalled
>by the idea of beating/injuring children as those who don't.  Also, many people 

I agree, but with the problem lynda (llf@research.att.com) is posing to
the net and to me, is what is 'spanking'. I have just seen to many cases
where what the parent calmly defined as 'spanking', was in my
'non-professional' eyes physical abuse. please remember, 'the-net' is not
typical of the population as a whole.

>who do not spank may do as much if not more damage by calmly belittling their
>children.

.. or other forms of emotional abuse, (my experience as a child).

>I would like to make a plea for tolerance--not that we should be prevented
>from discussing or vehemently disagreeing with the ideas of others, but
>that we should try to avoid assuming that identical actions have similar
>motives.

THANKS, as I just wrote to lynda, 

    I understand that it is almost impossible to remove emotion from
    the discussion, it also makes it hard for 'non-parents' like me to be
    considered. Many parents don't understand why someone like me, 'an
    adult male, bachelor, etc.' can have strong emotions about someones elses
    14 year old boy, stronger feelings than many parents have about their
    own children, it is a tough one to explain in our society. Heck I don't
    fully understand it myself.

I'm more than willing to listen to any idea, from anyone. If we did that,
many things would be a whole lot better, again remember 'we' does not mean
just the 'net'. Unless society as a whole comes to terms with issues like
this, WE have not accomplish much.

-pete
petel@sequent.com
Newsgroups: misc.kids