HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mday@jukebox.lcs.mit.edu (Mark Day)
Subject: Re: Racist Webster's New World Encyclopedia
Organization: MIT Laboratory for Computer Science
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 18:17:10 GMT

   > Arthur_T_Hu@cup.portal.com writes:

   Somebody just dropped off a review copy of Webster's New World Encyclopedia
   at work. It's one of those one-volume jobs, and just for laughs, I decided
   to see if I could find any Asian-Americans in it. The only ones I could
   find were An Wang, Sam Ting (physicist) and I.M. Pei (architect). There are
   no Asian-Am politicians (S.I. Hayakawa or Dan Inoueye didn't make it), no
   Asian-Am authours (Amy Tan and Maxine Hong Kingston didn't make it), and
   no actors. In contrast, it did have Martin Luther King, Marcus Garvey,
   Malcolm X, and Fredrick Douglass, and Baldwin. I'll bet Crispus Attucks
   is there as well. Does that mean that the encyclopedia is biased towards
   African Americans, and deliberately implies that there were no Asian American
   authors, or civil rights leaders, or politicians? 

Of course not.  

Just out of curiosity, where do you get the idea that Amy Tan and
Maxine Hong Kingston are sufficiently important literary figures to be
in a one-volume encyclopedia?  I really like Amy Tan's work, but let's
keep things in perspective: she's written two novels and it's too
early to tell how those books will hold up over time.  Years ago,
people used to think "A Canticle for Liebowitz" would be an important
book for years to come, but when I glanced through it recently it
seemed rather childish.  There are lots of other people with Amy Tan's
resume of "published two recent novels" who aren't in that
encyclopedia: the only reason you're looking for her is that she's
Asian American.  

Hayakawa and Inouye's absences are more puzzling, although you didn't
say whether prominent African American contemporary politicians are
included.  I mean, use your head, Arthur: Hayakawa is nothing like
Frederick Douglass or Martin Luther King.  Again, I would guess that
there are lots of people with resumes comparable to Hayakawa who
aren't in that encyclopedia.

I think this article is mostly interesting for what it reveals about
Arthur's value system: he apparently think that someone like Malcolm X
or Marcus Garvey is like Hayakawa or Inouye, and the only reason for
omitting the latter is racism or cultural bias.

--Mark Day

mday@lcs.mit.edu
From: c60b-1gs@e260-1a.berkeley.edu (Allen Tom)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Hoyt Sze will be on TV!
Date: 29 Sep 92 08:10:13 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: e260-1a.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Sep28.210512.7345@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> ajh@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Alan Hu) writes:
>Hi Folks,
>	I was talking to Judy Tseng the other day, and she mentioned
>that Hoyt Sze (former militant Asian-American Cal columnist) is
>supposed to be on the Montel Williams Show this Tuesday (Sept 29).
>This is a cheesy day-time talk show, and it's said to be an
>inflammatory segment on interracial relationships.  I don't have a
>newspaper or TV, so I can't tell you the time, but if you have a VCR,
>it might be worth taping.  It's rare to see an Asian-American male on
>TV, and I'd guess Hoyt will have interesting things to say.
>					--Alan Hu

Wow, Hoyt Sze lives! The Daily Cal just hasn;t been the saame since he
left. 

When is the Montel Williams Show and what channel? (in the bay area)

I've never heard of it...

-- 
 _________________________________________________________________________
|Allen Tom  c60b-1gs@web.berkeley.edu |          Our Prime Directive:     |   
|           atom@ocf.berkeley.edu     |         PICCARD / RIKER for 92    |   
 -------------------------------------------------------------------------
Xref: sparky soc.culture.asian.american:9329 soc.culture.asean:6570 soc.culture.korean:4620
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Friday, 2 Oct 1992 09:25:53 CDT
From: <U58402@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,soc.culture.asean,soc.culture.korean
Subject: Re: Have no need to fear ... was Re: Freedom of Speech
 <92274.093800U58402@uicvm.uic.edu>
 <1992Oct1.174834.90245@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au> <V_2-55-@engin.umich.edu>

In article <V_2-55-@engin.umich.edu>, Michael F. Kamprath
<kamprath@space-grant.sprl.umich.edu> says:
>
>In article <1992Oct1.174834.90245@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au> ,
>phs431d@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au
>writes:
>>
>>Dwight, this is not good enough.  Since your view is obviously the MINORITY
>>view on this network (obvious from the few who support you) then THE ONUS
>>is on YOU to come up with verifiable proof for the rest of us (the
>>majority) to examine.
>>
>
>Careful, this statement could easily be extrapolated to other situations in
>which you are the minority.
>
As much as I hate to say it, I have to agree. The problem with Mr. Joe's
opinions is not that they are in the minority, but that they are
unsupported by fact and/or logic. He makes the assertion that Chinese
culture promotes the beating of one's children, which he is perfectly
free to do. However, he does not offer any statistics or other proof
that this is the case, resorting instead to a childish repetition of "Is
too! Is too!"

Wilbur Pan
(aka u58402@uicvm.uic.edu
 at the ever so friendly and personal univ. of ill. at chicago)


Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu)
Subject: Re: Hoyt Sze will be on TV!
Organization: Nynex Science and Technology
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 13:10:38 GMT

In article <1a9315INNs8o@agate.berkeley.edu> c60b-1gs@e260-1a.berkeley.edu (Allen Tom) writes:
>In article <1992Sep28.210512.7345@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> ajh@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Alan Hu) writes:
>>Hi Folks,
>>	I was talking to Judy Tseng the other day, and she mentioned
>>that Hoyt Sze (former militant Asian-American Cal columnist) is
>>supposed to be on the Montel Williams Show this Tuesday (Sept 29).
>>This is a cheesy day-time talk show, and it's said to be an
>>inflammatory segment on interracial relationships.  I don't have a
>>newspaper or TV, so I can't tell you the time, but if you have a VCR,
>>it might be worth taping.  It's rare to see an Asian-American male on
>>TV, and I'd guess Hoyt will have interesting things to say.
>>					--Alan Hu
>
>Wow, Hoyt Sze lives! The Daily Cal just hasn;t been the saame since he
>left. 
>
>When is the Montel Williams Show and what channel? (in the bay area)
>
>I've never heard of it...
>
  I think it is a talk show and in New York City it is around
  5:00 p.m.?  on Fox???  I'll try and be home to catch it, but
  you never know when your boss will walk into your office...
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: mday@jukebox.lcs.mit.edu (Mark Day)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Is it in the Genes?
Date: 26 Sep 92 18:56:27 GMT
Organization: MIT Laboratory for Computer Science


   > claypool@seas.gwu.edu (Hyok H. Lee) writes:

   Lately, I have been thinking more and more about differences between the
   races.  Do Asian-Americans do well academically because they are born
   that way or because they're more motivated?  Is it just a coincidence that
   more blacks are in the NBA than whites?

   [various further speculations deleted]

   Ignore your natural tendency to discount this question, even though it has
   been drilled into your head by the "system" and the media that all humans
   are the same.  Dig deep and give me your brutally honest response.

You don't want my brutally honest response, believe me.  My polite
response to you is that you should go and look at the era of great
Irish and Jewish athletes in the late 19th and early 20th centuries
and see how that fits into your theory.  I would guess that you'll
find it's easier to account for the shift in socio-economic terms of
opportunity costs and discrimination than in biological terms of
racial fitness.

--Mark
From: gwangung@carson.u.washington.edu (Roger Tang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Interracial Dating FAQ (was Re: Montel Williams Show)
Date: 5 Oct 92 16:59:54 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Oct5.165954.7217
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <92277.223633ZQH@psuvm.psu.edu> ZQH@psuvm.psu.edu writes:
>In <1992Sep30.220727.25293@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>
>ajh@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Alan Hu) writes:
>It will take A LOT OF guts and GREAT courages for a CF to marry an AM
>(to make love is another matter),

	That depends where; this is a lot less so on the West Coast and
Hawaii than elsewhere.

> B). People who have the ``inferiority complex'' about their own race
>     and just want to marry into the mainstream.

	Normally, I have a hard time accepting that this sentiment still
exists in these "enlightened" times, but given the frequency of the term
"Asian American men are scum" that I overhear from Asian females, I'm not
so sure nowadays.....



-- 
Roger Tang, gwangung@u.washington.edu
Producer Emeritus, Asian Theatre at the UW
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: gwangung@milton.u.washington.edu (Just another theatre geek.....)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Glass ceiling (was Re: Census report)
Date: 29 Sep 92 15:26:03 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Sep29.152603.12442
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

>jpak@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Jim Pak) asks:
>When we filled out the census, we indicated that Kiri (who is "happa", as you
>folks who've met her and my husband know) was Asian AND Caucasian (i.e., we
>checked BOTH boxes for her).  I guess they'll just have to figure it out since 
>I indicated I am of Asian descent and my husband is Caucasian (European).

	Hmmm....guess you'd love our spring youth show, PLEASE CHOOSE ONE....

>>Another thing.  Are Asian Indian-Americans classified as "Asian" in those
>>Census reports?  My guess is "no," but I don't know, and I don't make up the
>>silly rules, either.

	Actually, the answer is "yes."



-- 
Roger Tang gwangung@milton.u.washington.edu
Executive Producer Emeritus, Asian Theatre at the UW;
	The definition of having balls is a non-singer who goes karaoke singing 
with the cast of a musical revue.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: wung@puttgen.ee.gatech.edu (Peter Wung)
Subject: Re: Montel Williams Show (Re: Hoyt Sze will be on TV!
Reply-To: wung@puttgen.ee.gatech.edu
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 21:14:19 GMT

In article 2186@usna.NAVY.MIL, wdw@math2.sma.usna.navy.MIL (Wm. Douglas Withers -- math  FACULTY <wdw@sma.usna.navy.mil>) writes:
>|I am not Asian-American, but I have been following this group for a while
>|trying to get some insights.  Now from the commentary on the Montel Williams
>|show and from other remarks made here recently I get the impression that
>|there is frequently some resentment on the part of Asian-American men
>|towards Asian-American women having to do with interracial relationships.
>|
>|Why should there be such a sentiment? Then again, am I misreading something?
>|Anyone care to enlighten me?
>|-- 
>|Els Withers                   email: wdw@math2.sma.usna.navy.mil
>|Department of Mathematics     phone: (410)267-3192 / fax: (410)267-4883
>|United States Naval Academy
>|Annapolis, MD  21402-5002     Senri no tabi mo ippo yori...


HOO Boy now you've done it, and I thought we were thru with that thread....
GET ME OUT OF HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

********************************************************************
*Peter Wung			Email:wung@ee.gatech.edu	   * 
*Electric Power Laboratory	Snail mail: 33787 Ga. Tech Station * 
*School of Electrical Engineering	    Atlanta, GA 30332      *
*Georgia Institute of Technology			    	   *
*Atlanta, Georgia						   *
*   	"Pass, Set, CRUSH!"...					   * 
*  	Well, 2 out of 3 ain't bad for a short, fat guy. 	   *
*								   *
********************************************************************

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: shchen@eos.ncsu.edu 
Subject: Re: Montel Williams Show (Re: Hoyt Sze will be on TV!
Originator: shchen@c00002-118dan.eos.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: shchen@eos.ncsu.edu 
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 19:22:40 GMT



|>In article <2186@usna.NAVY.MIL> wdw@math2.sma.usna.navy.MIL (Wm. Douglas Withers -- math  FACULTY <wdw@sma.usna.navy.mil>) writes:
|>>I am not Asian-American, but I have been following this group for a while
|>>trying to get some insights.  Now from the commentary on the Montel Williams
|>>show and from other remarks made here recently I get the impression that
|>>there is frequently some resentment on the part of Asian-American men
|>>towards Asian-American women having to do with interracial relationships.
|>>
|>>Why should there be such a sentiment? Then again, am I misreading something?
|>>Anyone care to enlighten me?
|>>-- 
|>>Els Withers                   email: wdw@math2.sma.usna.navy.mil
|>>Department of Mathematics     phone: (410)267-3192 / fax: (410)267-4883
|>>United States Naval Academy
|>>Annapolis, MD  21402-5002     Senri no tabi mo ippo yori...
|>
|>I'd like to second these sentiments, except I won't be so diplomatic
|>as to use the term "enlighten" here.  This is the 20th century.  These
|>are the 90's.  Anyone can date or marry anyone they damn well feel like.
|>The fact that there are more interracial relationships is a good thing.
|>It means that the significance of racial and ethnic boundaries is
|>breaking down.  Is is possible that much of the opposition to such 
|>relationships comes from people who can't get a date?  
|>
|>-- 
|>Roger Shouse
|>The University of Chicago 		Email: shou@midway.uchicago.edu
|>

No discussion of interracial relationships is ever complete without bringing up
the fact that most of the CM involved in relationship with AAF are nerds, dorks, 
geeks, and your typical Chuck Wagon types.  They know they won't have a prayer
with even the plainest looking CF.  So it comes down to AAF or party doll filled
with warm water, which is really the same thing when you think about it.  

Anytime you come across a CM/AAF couple, nine times out ten he'll be chewing on
a Milk Bone dog biscuit.  But since people usually marry person of close physical
proximity, does this mean most AAFs are also dog biscuit lovers?  You be the judge.
From: david@xlnt.com (David Johnson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: "ABC" and Generation 3
Date: 30 Sep 92 21:27:08 GMT
Organization: XLNT Designs, Inc (XDI)

ajh@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Alan Hu) writes:
>yamauchi@ces.cwru.edu (Brian Yamauchi) writes:
>>This isn't meant to be a flame, but I always wonder why people
>>consider it strange that third-generation AAs are American (rather
>>than Asian) in culture.  In contrast, I've never heard anyone express
>>surprise that third-generation Polish-Americans, German-Americans, or
>>Irish-Americans have been "assimilated" into American culture...

>	I'd say it's because people have accepted the racist presumption
>	that "American==White".

I keep reminding my wife that American iff White is not true.  I tell
her I am no more or less American as President Bush and Jesse Jackson
is no less American than the President.  I have heard both whites and
Asians (including my wife) say "American" when they really meant "white
Caucasian".  That is one of my biggest peeves.

I have observed that people of southern European ancestry in the US 
tend to keep their mother culture longer than those from other parts
of Europe.  The Greek/Italian/Spanish American people I know like
to make it clear where they or their ancestors came from originally
and still practice many of the customs and rituals from the old country.

-- 
David Johnson
XLNT Designs, Inc. (XDI)
david@xlnt.com
From: david@xlnt.com (David Johnson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Ear lobe reading (was palm reading)
Date: 2 Oct 92 21:23:07 GMT
Organization: XLNT Designs, Inc (XDI)

In article <92276.093517U58402@uicvm.uic.edu>, U58402@uicvm.uic.edu writes:
|> Well, I've had my palm read twice. Once by an uncle of mine in Taiwan,
|> who read it the "Chinese way" (read left palm because I'm male) and once
|> by a friend of mine who read my palm the "Peruvian way" (right palm
|> because I'm male). Go figure. However, both of them said that I would be
|> married when I'm 32. My aunt who did handwriting analysis said the same
|> thing.
|> 
|> Guess I've got 4 years left :@)

Has anyone ever heard of ear lobe reading?  A friend of mine's father
from Taiwan said he can tell by my ear lobes that I will be very rich
someday.  Not just you every day rich but Bill Gates type rich.  My
wife's granduncle said the same thing.  I do not believe the stuff in the
slightest degree but I hope they are right.  I am waiting ...


-- 
David Johnson
XLNT Designs, Inc. (XDI)
david@xlnt.com
From: launce@apollo.med.utah.edu (Tri-Ungulate)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Is it in the Genes?
Date: 6 Oct 92 22:21:32 GMT
Article-I.D.: apollo.LAUNCE.92Oct6152132
	<92270.134930U58402@uicvm.uic.edu> <66955@cup.portal.com>
Organization: Trifurcate-Hooved Ruminant Surveyors, Inc.

In article <66955@cup.portal.com> Arthur_T_Hu@cup.portal.com writes:
>   What does Mr. Arthur Hu think? 

Hu cares?  I could care less...

> I'm open to all possibilities,

Yeah, just as long as they fit into your ultra-conservative
Weltanschauung...

> and there are some interesting things that indicate Asians just
> might be genetically smarter,

Uh, oh, I know it, he's gonna trot out that tired old SAT data again ...

> though there's no hard proof. 

Got *that* right...

>  Asian immigrants get the same Math SAT scores as the American
>  Born [...]

AIEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

> If you ask Mr. Jensen (I have) is it genetic, he'll say there's no
> proof. But he'll then say there's loads of evidence that points in
> that direction before he stops at it definitely being genetic. 

Which means -  absolutely nothing.  BTW, I musta missed sumthin' - who
*is* Mr.  Jensen and why is he important to this topic??

> My view of intelligence is that it's like money -

How Chinese-cu of you... <evil grin, snicker, snicker>
 
[Mr. Arthur Hu's highly scientific statistical analysis correlating
SAT scores, Olympic medals, calculus proficiency, engineering degrees,
etc. with race deleted for brevity]

> Genetic theories shouldn't be thrown out just because they are
> racist, 

It is not the theory itself (that intelligence has a significant
genetic component) that is racist - it is the interpretation that some
people derive from this theory.  The most egregious offenders
(IM[NSH]O) are those who make the assumption that arbitrary "racial"
categories = specific genotypes, then make the conveeenient jump to
conclusions that some "races" are smarter/faster/have bigger dicks,
etc., etc. _ad nauseum_.

I mean, hell, we've only recently figured out a single genetic
component involved in Long-Term Potentiation (a primitive model for
memory)... [1] 

> but they should never be treated as the entire picture even if
> it turns out to be partly true.

No disagreement here...

[1] If you want the reference, it's Silva & Tonegawa - or was it
Tonegawa & Silva?  In a recent issue of _Science_ - or was it
_Nature_? ... sheesh, my memory's really goin' bad. 

| _, launce gouw * internet: launce@apollo.med.utah.edu * ooniversity of ootah 
|(_) medical center * department of human genetics *   palace of the brine
___) we apologise for the previous opinions. those responsible have been sacked
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu)
Subject: Re: Montel Williams Show (Re: Hoyt Sze will be on TV!
Organization: Nynex Science and Technology
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 92 13:36:15 GMT

In article <1992Oct1.015615.22299@news.columbia.edu> gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare) writes:
>wdw@math2.sma.usna.navy.MIL (Wm. Douglas Withers -- math  FACULTY) writes:
>
>>there is frequently some resentment on the part of Asian-American men
>>towards Asian-American women having to do with interracial relationships.
>>
>>Why should there be such a sentiment? Then again, am I misreading something?
>>Anyone care to enlighten me?
>
>Actually, the resentment comes from the reality or perception that:
>
>1. Most Asian-American women can get dates with [white] men

  not just white, but Asian, white, Black, Hispanic
>
>2. Asian-American men can't get dates with [white] women whether they'd
>   prefer it or not; and,

  same as above, Asian, white, Black, Hispanic
>
>3. Many Asian-American women's preference to dates with [white] men will
>   preclude any opportunities for Asian-American men who'd prefer them.

  substitute here only, white, Black, Hispanic
>
>These are gross generalizations, of course ...

  of course
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: wung@eecom.gatech.edu (Peter Wung)
Subject: Re: Racist Webster's New World Encyclopedi
Reply-To: wung@eecom.gatech.edu
Organization: School of EE, Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta, GA
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 17:50:43 GMT

In article 92Sep26131710@jukebox.lcs.mit.edu, mday@jukebox.lcs.mit.edu (Mark Day) writes:
>|
>|Just out of curiosity, where do you get the idea that Amy Tan and
>|Maxine Hong Kingston are sufficiently important literary figures to be
>|in a one-volume encyclopedia?  I really like Amy Tan's work, but let's
>|keep things in perspective: she's written two novels and it's too
>|early to tell how those books will hold up over time.  Years ago,
>|people used to think "A Canticle for Liebowitz" would be an important
>|book for years to come, but when I glanced through it recently it
>|seemed rather childish.  There are lots of other people with Amy Tan's
>|resume of "published two recent novels" who aren't in that
>|encyclopedia: the only reason you're looking for her is that she's
>|Asian American.  
>|

I agree with Mark on that point.


>|Hayakawa and Inouye's absences are more puzzling, although you didn't
>|say whether prominent African American contemporary politicians are
>|included.  I mean, use your head, Arthur: Hayakawa is nothing like
>|Frederick Douglass or Martin Luther King.  Again, I would guess that
>|there are lots of people with resumes comparable to Hayakawa who
>|aren't in that encyclopedia.
>|
>|I think this article is mostly interesting for what it reveals about
>|Arthur's value system: he apparently think that someone like Malcolm X
>|or Marcus Garvey is like Hayakawa or Inouye, and the only reason for
>|omitting the latter is racism or cultural bias.
>|
>|--Mark Day
>|
>|mday@lcs.mit.edu

Well, if you looked at the emergence of asian-americans as an entity, it shouldn't really surprise you at all.   Previous to this new emergence the last few years, asian americans really did not play a large role in the minds of main stream america.
We have had to labor under the stereotypes of Fu Manchu, Charlie Chan, Kato, and
many other sordid stereotypes.  The asian american examples of political, literary,
and cultural successes are too recent to be considered for posterity.  It took
african-americans a couple of centuries to have their historical figures recognized.
Although I think that the acceptance of african-american historical figures will
help asian americans to be accepted later.  


---
********************************************************************
*Peter Wung			Email:wung@ee.gatech.edu	   * 
*Electric Power Laboratory	Snail mail: 33787 Ga. Tech Station * 
*School of Electrical Engineering	    Atlanta, GA 30332      *
*Georgia Institute of Technology			    	   *
*Atlanta, Georgia						   *
*   	"Pass, Set, CRUSH!"...					   * 
*  	Well, 2 out of 3 ain't bad for a short, fat guy. 	   *
*								   *
********************************************************************
From: hassan@cup.portal.com (hassan monu alam)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Genetic question misunderstood
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 21:48:11 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

Hyok,

Sorry for misunderstanding your quest for scientific truth. Tell us
what you have uncovered. Are the Asians smarter than other races?
What is the Asian race? Does it include Malays? What about Mongols?
The Mughal rulers of India were decendents of the Mongols.

"The truth will set you free"

Hassan
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american