HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pkron@corona.wa.com (Peter Kron)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: NeXT harware vs software
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 93 06:23:03 PDT
Organization: Corona Design, Inc.
Reply-To: Peter_Kron@corona.wa.com

The NeXT monitor is the best by far, but mouse and keyboard have never felt
that comfy. As for the slab, well I think of it as a black box. I don't
really care what is in it or who's name is on it. I just bought a Dell 450/L
and it is a nice machine, and much cheaper than a NeXTStation. But boy, do
I miss NextStep as an interface in general, networking, and developing.

Intel is the fastest moving CPU company around right now, and I look forward
to the power that's coming. The price cuts of last year were great. So if
that is the platform for NextStep to bloom...fine. If some other 
chip/workstation wins, that's fine too. I wish NeXT all the best in the
hardware arena...they do some things very right...but most of all I want
to see the power of NextStep "at my fingertips."
From: william@stat.lsa.umich.edu (William Pietri)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: 100 Mips Intel NeXT (processor comparison)
Date: 6 Jan 1993 21:43:31 GMT
Organization: University of Michigan Department of Statistics
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: amadeus.stat.lsa.umich.edu

In article <1993Jan5.220545.22030@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>, clc5q@hemlock.cs.Virginia.EDU (Clark L. Coleman) writes:
> This was after a year of
> vaporous marketing from DEC that claimed they had a chip that was twice as
> fast as any chip from the competition (e.g. talking about 200 MHz Alpha chips
> in the labs in January of 1992 and comparing them to actual systems that had
> been shipping in the 1000s for many months.)  This kind of hyperbole is
> associated with desperation in my mind.

Hyperbole?  From the DEC marketroids?  Surely, you jest.  They are the
epitome of restraint, moderation, and modesty.  For example, let me quote
from the Fall 1992 issue of INFOSHARE, a DEC newsletter:

--------

RECORD BREAKING COMPUTER CHIP

A new computer chip no bigger than a human finger nail, yet as powerful
as the room-size supercomputers of ten years ago, is named as the world's
fastest computer chip in the latest issue of the Guinness Book of Records.
The new chip, called Alpha AXP(tm), is almost as quick as the speed of light 
and now joins the ranks of some of the world's most incredible achievements
including the first man on the moon and the splitting of the atom.

--------

That's right!  "Almost as quick as the speed of light!"  (For future upgrades,
they will presumably have to violate some basic physical laws...)  Clark is
right; DEC is pitifully desperate.

William 
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: Conrad_Geiger@NeXT.com (Conrad Geiger - Manager, International NeXT User Groups)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Chicago NeXT Users Group (ChiNUG) - January 13th  meeting
Date: 11 Jan 93 18:35:02 GMT
Reply-To: user_groups@next.com

The January meeting of the Chicago NeXT Users Group (ChiNUG) will be
this Wednesday, January 13, at 7pm in room A310 of Northwestern
University's Technological Institute.

This month:

PasteUp from RightBrain
Questor and Graphity from Xanthus
Steve Jobs Video

Raffles for priceless objects!

For more info, contact Joe Yoon, ChiNUG coordinator 708-332-1340,
Email: onyx@nwu.edu

Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: lemson@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (David Lemson)
Subject: Re: NeXTSTEP development opportunities
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 04:01:39 GMT

jcorallo@ccsi.com (P. John Corallo) writes:

>platform.  For NeXT to be successful we are going to need to have  
>full-time NeXT programmers and NeXT teams inside of corporations.  

You write as though this is in the future tense.  This has been
going on for a while now.  Companies like Swiss Bank, First Chicago,
(I think Phibro has a team also), etc. etc.  Yes, it is just in the
beginning stages, but it is happening.  Companies are investing real
money and human resources in NeXTs.
-- 
David Lemson                                                (217) 244-1205
University of Illinois NeXT Campus Consultant / CCSO NeXT Lab System Admin
Internet : lemson@uiuc.edu                UUCP :...!uiucuxc!uiucux1!lemson 
NeXTMail & MIME accepted                           BITNET : LEMSON@UIUCVMD
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: hal@niftyneato.com(Hal Fox-Palmer)
Subject: Re: End of NeXT - printer version
Organization: Hal's phony Co.
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 06:44:30 GMT

> Just as a refresher course in history, when the NeXT printer was  
originally  
> introduced it certainly beat anything out in the market.  Their  
decisions on  
> how to make the printer (whatever it's defects) gave users a great  
printer  
> at a great price.
> 
> Now, that was some time ago, and now it does not look like such a great  
> deal.  When comparing the NeXT printer (released, what, 2 years ago?)  
with  
> the HP offerings of this month, the NeXT printer isn't bad, but it isn't  
all  
> that stunning a deal any more.
> 
> Thus, I submit the problem isn't all the technical choices that NeXT  
made  
> with the printer (since those choices gave us a great printer when the  
> printer was introduced), it's that NeXT's prices have not changed in  
quite  
> some time now.
> 
> I, as a NeXT aficionado, would hope that NeXT will soon update their  
prices  
> to make things more competitive.  I think the fact that the printer is  
*at  
> all* competitive after two years (or whatever the timespan is) is pretty  
> remarkable.
> 
> --
> Garance Alistair Drosehn     =     gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu
> ITS Systems Programmer            (handles NeXT-type mail)
> Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute;           Troy NY    USA

It is remarkable indeed ! I wouldn't go back to the either of the two  
PostScript (cpu & mem.) printers I owned before the NeXT printer.

Yes yes yes, other printers are catching up and in some cases (HP4 & 4M)  
surpassing the NeXT Printer but what would you think if NeXT came out with  
a 11x17 800 dpi printer for under $3000.00 ? Would you buy one, I would.
Or how about just a 8.5x11 800 dpi printer. Canon has the engines and the  
Adobe license allows up to 900 dpi.

So what do you think, lets speak up I WANT A NEW NeXT LASER PRINTER !!

Hal-
hal@niftyneato.com
From: William.Pietri@umich.edu (William Pietri)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: NeXT: Economist Article
Date: 6 Jan 1993 20:13:23 GMT
Organization: University of Michigan Department of Statistics
NNTP-Posting-Host: amadeus.stat.lsa.umich.edu

In article <1993Jan3.172057.19799@squid9.cuc.ab.ca>, terry@squid9.cuc.ab.ca (Terry Wilcox) writes:
> In article <726037340.AA00000@blkcat.UUCP>  
> Mitch.Alland@p956.f70.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Mitch Alland) writes:
> > Here's the article on NeXT in the December 12 issue of the Economist:
> [...]
> > (True to form, IBM has as yet done nothing with the technology.) So why
> > has NeXT languished?
> 
> IBM did lots with the technology. They just didn't do it in an acceptable  
> manner. It seems the Economist is glossing over some facts.

IBM did not bring a commercially viable product to market using any
NextStep technology, despite its great potential.  In the way that
users (and IBM's stockholders) care about, IBM did nothing with
NextStep.
 
> > The changes are proving costly. Japan's Canon -- the biggest shareholder 
> > in NeXT, which is not publicly quoted this year added another $55m to
> > the $100m it chipped in to help launch the firm. 
> 
> Canon did not give NeXT $55 million. It opened a line of credit for $55
> million. If the Economist doesn't make that distinction, it hasn't done
> a good job of investigating the article. Also, Steve Jobs is the
> biggest shareholder in NeXT, not Canon.

That's a distinction without a difference.  If NeXT doesn't make it,
Canon won't see a dime of that money.  And how, exactly, do you know
who owns how much of NeXT?  Since you said that NeXT doesn't release
financial information, perhaps you could tell us your source.

> Why do people care about this article? There's no new information and it  
> contains some obvious inaccuracies. The only people that will worry about it  
> are those who don't already keep up with NeXT news.
> 
> Terry Wilcox

Because The Economist is a general interest newsweekly that is read
widely and is highly regarded, especially among folks with an interest
in international business and finance--a basket in which NeXT has
quite a few eggs.  

Personally, I like NeXT a great deal, and my enthusiasm for NextStep
frequently borders on religious zeal.  This article, however, paints an
accurate picture of NeXT's current situation, and shooting the
messenger doesn't make the message any less true.  You should keep in
mind that NeXT's new customers are generally among "those who don't
already keep up with NeXT news."  If NeXT is to succeed, good press is
vital.

William

--------
William Pietri             | Email: William.Pietri@umich.edu
Stat. Dept. Sysadmin and   |    or: william@stat.lsa.umich.edu
   ITD/CSS Consultant      |    or: USERW28W@UMICHUM.bitnet
University of Michigan     | Phone: (313) 764-9983
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu (Garance A. Drosehn)
Subject: Re: End of NeXT - printer version
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 23:26:46 GMT

rsrodger@wam.umd.edu (Yamanari) writes:
> 	If these companies can offer *smart* printers with memory
> 	for about the same price as the NeXT LP, doesn't that say
> 	something about NeXT's policy towards it's customers?
> 	(read: price gouging.  they could sell the sucker for $400
> 	and still be making 100% profit)

Just as a refresher course in history, when the NeXT printer was originally  
introduced it certainly beat anything out in the market.  Their decisions on  
how to make the printer (whatever it's defects) gave users a great printer  
at a great price.

Now, that was some time ago, and now it does not look like such a great  
deal.  When comparing the NeXT printer (released, what, 2 years ago?) with  
the HP offerings of this month, the NeXT printer isn't bad, but it isn't all  
that stunning a deal any more.

Thus, I submit the problem isn't all the technical choices that NeXT made  
with the printer (since those choices gave us a great printer when the  
printer was introduced), it's that NeXT's prices have not changed in quite  
some time now.

I, as a NeXT aficionado, would hope that NeXT will soon update their prices  
to make things more competitive.  I think the fact that the printer is *at  
all* competitive after two years (or whatever the timespan is) is pretty  
remarkable.

--
Garance Alistair Drosehn     =     gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu
ITS Systems Programmer            (handles NeXT-type mail)
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute;           Troy NY    USA
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: rsrodger@wam.umd.edu (Yamanari)
Subject: Re: Richard Page resigns ...
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 18:35:35 GMT

In article <1993Jan10.141858.15982@rna.indiv.nluug.nl> gerben@rna.indiv.nluug.nl writes:
>What is going on here? I hope NeXT understands that uncertainty about company  
>policies is hurting them bad, they will make a public statement on their  
>intended policy.
>
>I wonder if NeXT hardware will still be built in a year from now.


	I wonder what would become of NeXTStep if NeXT went under.  Would
	licensees (IBM is the only one I know of--were there others?) abandon
	NeXTStep or feel free to bring itout themselves?

	Gasp--supposesomeone bought NeXT.  I know what I would considerthe
	worst possibility.  


-- 
      Blaming "society" for your problems is like blaming clouds for rain.
 ---  boycott == coercion == censorship == closed mindedness == cowardice  ---
	      "Psalms 23:1  The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want."  
		Shepherds are for sheep.   -----      Pain teaches.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: edwardj@microsoft.com (Edward Jung)
Subject: Re: NeXT may not be doomed yet, but I sure have a lot of goose-bumps.
Date: 06 Jan 93 08:01:34 GMT
Organization: Strategy Division, Microsoft Corp.

People need to cut NeXT a bit of a break. They are not a huge
company. It takes alot of resources to support previous products
AND do a new version AND fix bugs AND port to multiple platforms.

Their software group is small, has undergone a number of changes
of management and direction, and has lost a number of senior
people.

I think NeXT is doing an impressive job given the size of their
software group. Believe me, biting off a 486 port that runs
on even 50% of the configurations out in the world is a huge
piece of work -- not in brainpower, but in sheer details and
number of people to manage them.

--
Edward Jung, Software Architect     edwardj@microsoft.com
Advanced Systems, Microsoft Corp.
From: vhs@rhein-main.de (Volker Herminghaus-Shirai)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: 100% unfounded NRW rumor/speculation!!!
Date: 11 Jan 93 15:18:40 GMT
Reply-To: vhs@rhein-main.de

In article <1ii4tdINNd77@shelley.u.washington.edu> dayne@byron.u.washington.edu  
(Dayne Miller) writes:
> What does anyone know about the secret chip project by HP known only by the 
> code-name Hummingbird? Is this a big deal? Could it have *anything* to do
> with NeXT?!?!

Hummingbird is the low-power, 800,000 transistor implementation of PA-RISC.
It's to PA-RISC what Tsunami (or MicroSparc) is to SPARC or what LPA 21066
is to Alpha. Supposed to kick the heck out of Tsunami, though.

--
Volker Herminghaus-Shirai (vhs@qb.rhein-main.de), NeXTmail welcome

Looks good on the outside, but -
	intel inside
From: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Jim Mann)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: When Will NeXTSTep Become Drag and Drop
Date: 11 Jan 93 15:53:38 GMT
Reply-To: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com
Organization: Stratus Computer Inc, Marlboro MA
NNTP-Posting-Host: gondolin.pubs.stratus.com


I've been using NeXTStep 3.0 for a couple of months now
(and have been using NeXT since release 1.0).  I have one
question/peeve: when will the user interface become true
drag and drop?  

Yes, I can drag documents into the Windows of certain apps. But 
I can't:

--  Drag a document into an application to open it under that
    application

--  Drag a document to the printer icon to print it

--  Drag a document to a "viewer" application to view the
    contents

I can do all of these on my home PC using the Norton Desktop
for Windows.  Why can't I do this on my NeXT, given
that NeXT is very good with this type of functionality in
other areas?


--
Jim Mann            
Stratus Computer   jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com
From: jefferis@manas.engr.widener.edu (Raymond P Jefferis)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: Buffalo Bills Analogy
Date: 5 Jan 1993 17:49:13 GMT
Organization: A poorly-installed InterNetNews site
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: engr.widener.edu

In article <29277@oasys.dt.navy.mil> kurhajet@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Robert  
Kurhajetz) writes:
> I was just musing that perhaps with all the talk about doom + gloom
> maybe NeXT could use the Buffalo Bills Football team ( down by
> 30-some points and still coming back to win it against the
> Houston Oilers ) as an example of what can happen when you believe 
> in yourself and have some talented people. Just a thought.
I remember very clearly standing next to the IBM 7040 mainframe (I think  
it was around 1965, maybe earlier) and asking a DEC installer "what's that  
little thing", as he rolled a little box full of cards by me.  He  
answered, "That's a <computer>, and we're going to be selling them like TV  
sets."  Now there's a company that believed in itself!
I really like your observation.
Ray
From: isbell@cats.ucsc.edu (Art Isbell)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: NeXTSTEP development opportunities
Date: 6 Jan 1993 22:18:01 GMT
Organization: Cubic Solutions - NeXT software development and consulting
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: si.ucsc.edu



From "Open Systems People in Demand" in the 4 Jan 93 issue of Open Systems
Today reproduced without permission:

"NextStep [sic] experts, however, can go just about anywhere.  [Pencom's
Executive VP Ed] Taylor says that NextStep 486 has fueled interest in the
NextStep environment from organizations that had operated proprietary shops.
He predicts communications, finance, medical, retail, and related industries
will embrace NextStep.  The demand for experts in Objective C [sic], DB Kit,
NextStep tools and interface building will be ``staggering,'' says Taylor, who
expects contract programmers will command rates up to $100 an hour.  ``NextStep
and DCE are among the two greatest areas of opportunity,'' he says."

So get out there and get the Garfinkle-Mahoney NeXTSTEP programming book, get
access to a NeXT machine, and do anything to get experience.  Your future
should be bright, especially if you're flexible about location.  At $100/hour,
you can fly home on the weekends and still have money to burn :-)
-- 

Art Isbell                                                      Cubic Solutions
NeXT Registered Developer #745         NeXT software development and consulting
NeXTmail: isbell@cats.UCSC.EDU                             Voice: (408)335-1154
USmail: 95018-9442                                           Fax: (408)335-2515
From: kurhajet@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Robert Kurhajetz)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Buffalo Bills Analogy
Date: 5 Jan 93 17:36:15 GMT
Reply-To: kurhajet@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Robert Kurhajetz)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD

I was just musing that perhaps with all the talk about doom + gloom
maybe NeXT could use the Buffalo Bills Football team ( down by
30-some points and still coming back to win it against the
Houston Oilers ) as an example of what can happen when you believe 
in yourself and have some talented people. Just a thought.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: sapphire!shill (Sean L. Hill)
Subject: Re: When Will NeXTSTep Become Drag and Drop (RTF)
Reply-To: Sean_Hill@ccsi.com
Organization: Crystal Computer Systems, Inc.
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 19:32:36 GMT

In article <`u#@byu.edu>  writes
> >Yes, I can drag documents into the Windows of certain apps. But 
> >I can't:
> >
> >--  Drag a document into an application to open it under that
> >    application
> >
> >--  Drag a document to the printer icon to print it
> >
> >--  Drag a document to a "viewer" application to view the
> >    contents
> 

What about the inspector.  I think that as long as developers include  
their custom inspectors then all documents can be viewed without  
opening them...

-Sean



-- NewsGrazer, a NeXTstep(tm) news reader, posting --
M>UQR=&8P7&%N<VE[7&9O;G1T8FQ<9C!<9FUO9&5R;B!#;W5R:65R.WT*7&UA
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M+2`@1')A9R!A(&1O8W5M96YT('1O(&$@(G9I97=E<B(@87!P;&EC871I;VX@
M=&\@=FEE=R!T:&5<"CX@/B`@("!C;VYT96YT<UP*/B`*7&(P(%P*7`I7:&%T
M(&%B;W5T('1H92!I;G-P96-T;W(N("!)('1H:6YK('1H870@87,@;&]N9R!A
M<R!D979E;&]P97)S(&EN8VQU9&4@=&AE:7(@8W5S=&]M(&EN<W!E8W1O<G,@
M=&AE;B!A;&P@9&]C=6UE;G1S(&-A;B!B92!V:65W960@=VET:&]U="!O<&5N
;:6YG('1H96TN+BY<"EP*+5-E86Y<"EP*"GT*
`
-- 
Sean L. Hill
CCSI Computers
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: rsrodger@wam.umd.edu (Yamanari)
Subject: Re: NeXT may not be doomed yet, but I sure have a lot of goose-bumps.
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 15:59:30 GMT

In article <1993Jan06.080134.3244@microsoft.com> edwardj@microsoft.com (Edward Jung) writes:
>People need to cut NeXT a bit of a break. They are not a huge
>company. It takes alot of resources to support previous products
>AND do a new version AND fix bugs AND port to multiple platforms.
>
>Their software group is small, has undergone a number of changes
>of management and direction, and has lost a number of senior
>people.


	If NeXT pulled out of hardware, their software group could be a lot
	bigger.


-- 
      Blaming "society" for your problems is like blaming clouds for rain.
 ---  boycott == coercion == censorship == closed mindedness == cowardice  ---
	      "Psalms 23:1  The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want."  
		Shepherds are for sheep.   -----      Pain teaches.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: andrew@cubetech.com
Subject: Re: Buffalo Bills Analogy
Organization: Cube Technologies, Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 21:00:46 GMT

In article <29277@oasys.dt.navy.mil> kurhajet@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Robert Kurhajetz) writes:
>I was just musing that perhaps with all the talk about doom + gloom
>maybe NeXT could use the Buffalo Bills Football team ( down by
>30-some points and still coming back to win it against the
>Houston Oilers ) as an example of what can happen when you believe 
>in yourself and have some talented people. Just a thought.

But did Buffalo win because they were inspired and believed in
themselves, or was it because the Oilers are better than anyone else
in choking.

As far as I know, Bill Gates hasn't choked yet.  I think NS486 is
going to be wildly sucessful as far as NeXT goes.  It won't be wildly
sucessful as far as Apple or MS goes (although it could potentially be so).


andrew
-- 
andrew@cubetech.com      | "We cannot dwell in the time that is to come,
Andrew Loewenstern       |  lest we lose our now for a phantom of our
Cube Technologies, Inc.  |  own design." - Erendis
0000000701B61D1ADF0DFC9C16185CEA055200000007EB4A9FEB1922065D471A89E905B5
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: matthews@ecfa.jsc.nasa.gov (Michael C. Matthews)
Subject: Re: A rosy forecast for 93
Reply-To: matthews@ial7.jsc.nasa.gov
Organization: NASA/JSC Engineering Computation Facility
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 14:45:47 GMT

In article <1993Jan2.201319.3232@qb.rhein-main.de> vhs@rhein-main.de writes:
>Wrong. Media are "sponsored" by M$, Sun, IBM, etc. Also, most rags prefer
>to pamper and stroke their DOS-based readership a la "...but taking into
>account the vast amount of incredibly great Microsoft apps and the higher
>raw SCSI transfer rate, MS-DOS still wins by far over Solaris and NeXTSTEP."
>
Aw, come on.  I would never have gotten a NeXT if it hadn't been for
all the glowing media reports 4 years ago.  And NeXT has gotten lots
of good press lately.  Sure, most PC magazines are DOS/Windows-
oriented, because that's what their customers (think they) want.
Would you want to see a review of Solaris or Windows NT in NeXTWORLD?
(Admittedly not a perfect analogy; PC mags reviewing NeXTSTEP would be
looking at a better OS than their customers are used to, but I can't
think of one better than NeXTSTEP for NeXTWORLD to review... :-)

>> 3. A NeXT-Cannon luggable (brief-case sized) machine is announced, with a  
>> large, high-resolution color LCD screen that wows the industry. 
>
>Based on which processor? Anyway, as far as I've heard Canon (not Cannon :-)
>is working on a different display technology, superior to LCD. Color.
>
Oh?  I heard Cannon was working on some very high speed terrycloth
display technology... and your machine-washable NeXT-Cannon portable
will be doubly useful on the beach!  :-)
--
Mike Matthews, ex-Tether Dude +------------->   matthews@ial7.jsc.nasa.gov
"Had the Shuttle on a String"  \_ Now accepting NeXTMail via KlugeNet(TM)!
Lockheed-ESC                  |  
Houston, TX                   |          *** WILL HACK FOR FOOD ***
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