From: kwelch@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Chronic Town Man)
Newsgroups: alt.abortion.inequity
Subject: Re: What needs to happen to discuss these issues productively.
Date: 17 Apr 92 20:54:46 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

Larry
>Kevin W.
>> Gordon

>> >The rapist may not have intended to kill her and may have even
>> >told her so, but her right to not have her body used against her will
>> >takes precedent over the rapists life.

>> Hmmmm.  Well, if he intended not to kill, why shoudl the woman kill him?

>As Gordon said, because of her *right* to not have her body used against
>her will.  She has the *right* to stop him in any way possible, including
>by killing him, even if her life was not in danger.  This is the law.

If it is the law that she can kill the rapist, then be it so.  The man is
committing an egregious violation of her body.  But I don't think she is
the proper person to execute him.  If he threatens her life, YES, she may
use deadly force if she has the means.  If he doesn't, let the judge decide
if he is to die (which he probably should).

>> However, the fetus takes no action at all with the mother.  It doesn't rape
>> her, threaten her with a knife

>It threatens her, just not with a knife.

In what ways?  In most rapes, the man threatens the woman with violence.
In the rest, the man is violent.

Only in about 7% of abortions does the fetus threaten the woman's health.
This includes death.

>> >Try hiring a prostitute in CA (something I haven't done, OK) and see if
>> >you don't get slapped in jail.  Why?  It's illegal because it's "immoral".

>> It's also illegal because it is unethical.

>So then it's ethical in Nevada, where it's legal?

No, that's not the logic, Larry.  I said Illegal => unethical, not 
legal => ethical.  That would mean that abortion, legal now, is ethical and 
I'd be contradicting the very premise upon which I stand.

>> Ethics are everlasting, until humans mutate into better or worse forms.

>But how can it be ethical in one place and not in the other?

It's not ethical, just legal.

>Are you
>saying that Nevada is populated by mutants?  (Actually, I realize that
>what's really disproved is your assertion that prostitution is illegal
>because it's unethical, not that ethics are everlasting, but you can
>argue against either statement.  But not against both.)

Okay, I made a sweeping generalization about prostitution without knowing
the law in that area, I'll admit.  However, what the crux of this 
argument is, is that illegal => unethical.  Not legal => ethical.

>> What about the man who wants to keep the fetus that his wife carries?

>I think that he has the right to do so.  However, if she wants it out
>of her body, she has the right to have it out.  He can then do with it
>what he wants.

That's really insensitive, considering if the man doesn't want the child
when it's born and she does, he has to support it.

Point is:  it's his too.

>> Why should he not have a say, much less be notified of an abortion?

>He should (in general) have input into her decision process, but the
>final decision is hers, because it's her body.  There are valid reasons
>why she might *not* want to notify him, and I think that legislation
>*requiring* notification would cause more problems than it would solve.
>(If they have a good relationship, she'll tell him even if the law
>doesn't mandate it.)

Laws requiring notification are "unconstitutional" as of now.  If a
husband would hurt his wife/boyfriend-girlfriend, a court order can
be made to override husband/father notification.  if the father is not
to be found, the law is null and void.  But if the father is generally
concerned, I think he has an ABSOLUTE right to KNOW what she is going
to do with the fetus.  I think he should have a right to make decisions
also.



>Larry Margolis, MARGOLI@YKTVMV (Bitnet), margoli@watson.IBM.com (Internet)

welch

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Newsgroups: alt.abortion.inequity