HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: One white boy
From: sieh@quads.uchicago.edu (Xue)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 22:43:15 GMT
Reply-To: sieh@midway.uchicago.edu
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

In article <1992Aug12.224309.16606@oakhill.sps.mot.com> 
jpak@manute.sps.mot.com writes:
>>[Doug Brashear of Carnegie Mellon wrote:]
>>[pretty lengthly whining, loud-mouthed, semi-funny, semi-useful, reply
>>by a guy who probably needs to get out more than sit behind the computer
>>so much deleted]
>
>Hey, Dougie, where were you sitting when you wrote this note?  Could it be...
>BEHIND A COMPUTER SCREEN????

The question is does he also have hidden a netrek screen or a netrek queue
window while he's reading s.c.as.am :-).

>a computer so much.  Besides, who goes to CMU to major in English?  :-)

Let's clear up some misconceptions about Carnegie Mellon.. yes, it is my
_alma mater_.  I didn't like it very much but the university has some very 
programs in addition to its usual strenghts in CS and Engineering.  Its
English dept has one of the finest Creative and Technical writing programs
in the country.  It also has a Literary and Cultural Studies major which is 
rather ironic considering the conservative nature of the administration.

>BTW, yours is predictable reply #6.  Thanks, I'll make sure to add this one
>next time I argue with JJ.

You will have to post this list of "predictable replies" so that we know
and maybe even borrow it.  With royalty fees of course :-).

Looks like my new net.home newsreader didn't have all the missing posts...
//Twinkie Chinkie
aka
-- 
//Lui Sieh
Dum loquimur, fugerit invida Aetas: carpe diem, quam minimum postero.  
Horace, Odes, I.xi.7;	<-- "Why post to USENET?" -Brian O.  Indeed.
What about my opinions? ==>> /dev/null	or  sieh@midway.uchicago.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: kai1@dasher.uucp (Kai Chiu)
Subject: Re: Racism against WHITE in China??? (was Re: Caucasians don't understand
Reply-To: kai1@dasher.UUCP (Kai Chiu)
Organization: Bellcore, Piscataway, NJ
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 14:34:55 GMT

In article <6242@ucru2.ucr.edu> lulu@ucrengr.ucr.edu (david lu) writes:
> ......stuff deleted.........                     
>                                Whites also have to pay a higher
>premium than native Chinese for just about everything.  Example:

  It is true that foreigners, white or not, pay higher prices
  for many services, including train tickets. 

  The reason, however, is quite understandable. Note that China
  is a socialist country, and by definition of socialism the 
  government heavily subsidizes almost everything, especially
  the service sector. The transportation industry in China is 
  particularly the case. The government is running the service 
  at loss. Other examples include education, health care, etc..
  If you are not a Chinese citizen, you are not entitled to 
  these social benefits.   

  By the way, you may be surprised to learn that this type of 
  treatments to foreigners can be found in this country (USA) 
  also. For examples, many US universities charge out-of-state 
  tuition to foreign students and even those from other states; 
  Government welfare programs are not open to foreigners..... 

  Racism is not the word I would like to use to critize these
  policies. 

>when I was traveling in China a few years ago, I met these two
>.........example of foreigners having to pay more deleted......
>
>				- David
>


Kai Chiu
kai1@dasher.cc.bellcore.com
Bell Communications Research, Inc.              
Tel: (908) 699-7338 
Xref: sparky soc.culture.asian.american:8160 soc.motss:35625
From: fjvwing@cs.vu.nl (FJ!!)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,soc.motss
Subject: Re: AM/CM - Gay Colonialism?
Date: 18 Aug 92 18:18:39 GMT

Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison) writes:
>William Tsu-Yuk Hsu writes:
>>Pompous, verbose, and dumb.
>I think you've just stuffed Arthur Hu into a nutshell.

Can we keep him there? Anybody got the SuperGlue to paste the pieces of
the shell back together forever?
							FJ!!
From: joe@astro.as.utexas.edu (Joe Wang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Racism against WHITE in China??? (was Re: Caucasians don't understand
Date: 19 Aug 92 08:30:41 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.asian.american
Organization: McDonald Observatory, University of Texas @ Austin

In article <1992Aug18.143455.7408@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> kai1@dasher.UUCP (Kai Chiu) writes:
>  The reason, however, is quite understandable. Note that China
>  is a socialist country, and by definition of socialism the 
>  government heavily subsidizes almost everything, especially
>  the service sector. 

"Socialism with Chinese characteristics" is starting to look very much
like capitalism.  The PRC is trying very hard right now to end most
economic subsidies, because they are causing massive budget deficits.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: jpak@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Jim Pak)
Subject: Re: ORIENTALS???????
Reply-To: jpak@manute.sps.mot.com
Organization: Motorola Inc.  Austin, Tx.
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 03:57:33 GMT

In article <3708@randvax.rand.org> edhall@rand.org (Ed Hall) writes:
>In article <25446@dog.ee.lbl.gov> jscott@Aztecridge.LosGatos (John Scott) writes:
>>Whenever I call an oriental "oriental", I always get told to say Asian
>>instead.  I just don't understand what the big deal is with you
>>orientals!!!  I always ask for a legitimate reason but never get one.  I
>>hope someone on this newsgroup could give me a reasonable explanation. 
>>Otherwise, I see nothing wrong with calling Korean, Chinese, and Japanese
>>people "oriental."

What are you, one of John Martin's "legendary" friends?

(My apologies, John.  John Martin, I mean.  :-) )

>You are going to get quick-fried to a crackly crunch for your posting,

Nonsense, Ed!!  In JJ's kinder and gentler scaa, there's no room for deep-
fried cuisine.  Just the lightly steamed variety (damn, I'm getting hungry
for some dim sum!).  Besides, Bathsheba warned me there'd be gluttons for
punishment like him.

I'd simply like to share a little story with my Occidental friend, Mr. Scott.
It's quite an amusing story, IMO.

Well, here goes.  When I was in high school, I was taking Spanish.  Well, in
my Spanish class (and for the most part, in my entire school), I was the
only Asian person there (excuse me John, I was the only ORIENTAL????? person
there).  Well, there would be a drill after every section where the teacher
would ask a question from the textbook in Spanish to a random student and we
were supposed to answer in a complete sentence, also in Spanish.

Well, in Spanish, I believe it is "correct" to call people of East Asian
origin "oriental," just as they call those from the West "occidental."
(If I'm wrong, somebody please correct me.)  Anyway, I was peeking at the
sentences from my textbook, and I noticed that one of them asked, "Eres
occidental o oriental?"  (Note: I can't do the upside-down question mark,
so no punctuation flames.)  Well, when the teacher got to that question,
guess who she asked?

The other kids cracked up, and even she was embarrassed since she was just
going down the list almost on auto-pilot and didn't even realize it until
the kids laughed.  And then even she smiled (she was a no nonsense, no
smiley kind of teacher.  She could have used a few of these :-) :^) :) ).
And then I had a hard time answering back because I was cracking up myself.
And then I composed myself and answered, "Soy oriental."  And then I turned
red.  :-)

No, I don't look back on that anecdote and get the urge to kill the lady now.
Oh contraire, I thought (and still think) it was very cute.  One of the very
funny moments of growing up AA, that, unfortunately, you Occidentals just
wouldn't understand!!!!!!  (But you would've laughed, 'cause it was funny,
dammit!!)

When I read your post, John, I thought about my old Spanish teacher and how
much I've forgotten my Espanol.

Oh yeah, what was the question anyway?

Buenos noches, mis amigos.

Jaime
From: jj@alice.att.com (J. Johnston)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Perceptions, Realities, Perceptions
Date: 19 Aug 92 18:50:22 GMT
Reply-To: jj@alice.UUCP (J. Johnston)
Organization: NJ State Home for Bewildered Terminals

In article <1992Aug19.130154.18706@nynexst.com> clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu) writes:
>In article <23475@alice.att.com> jj@alice.UUCP (jj, curmudgeon and clueless old white boy) writes:
>
>  Wow, you've talked about a world I've barely glimpsed.
Well, the looks into it aren't very interesting, other than
to make me want to throw up on somebody's limo.

>  You're right, they wouldn't walk down any city street.
>  I truly have no experience with these snobs.  
You're not altogether worse off for that...
Note, no smiley.

>  But I now see that your meaning of
>  "wrapping baby strollers around someone" was differnt
>  than what I thought you meant.  I guess Arnold could
>  wrap one around someone's neck in 2 seconds!
Yeah, and if you dealt with these dudes, you'd do it just
as fast as Arnold.  The sheer (justified) fury would more
than make up for any lack of upper body strength.

>  Oh good we agree then.  (White != "ruling elite")  That
>  was the whole point I was trying to make.  So one can
>  be white, but not in the ruling elite.  Seems quite
>  evident to me.
Funny, that's the point I've been trying to make, too.
None the less, I keep getting told (not necessarily by
you) to "shut up, you white b*****d".  Then, that really
bad excuse for an alledged white person starts suggesting
violence.  Phew, just what we all needed.

>>They 
>>are no more representitive of whites than Saddam Hussein is
>>of the average Kurd.
>  Saddam Hussein is not of Kurdish background, I think.
Quite indeed true, and that's the point.

>  Well I don't think "elite" is such a good name.  More
>  like the "ruling sh*theads".
You were perhaps expecting me to argue?

Not a chance I'll argue with that!  I'm TRYING to be polite
about them.

Oh, to the fellow who went on about Kennedy being an immigrant.
YOU don't get it, do you?  The Kennedy's keep getting messed up,
don't they?  They get arrested, charged, blamed, and all sorts
of other things (bear in mind two of them died, yes?).  Thanks
for making my point. <The fact its their own fault in some cases
(not being killed, for pete's sake) is not relevant here.>  If they
were a REAL member, instead of a wannabe, they'd never have been
in court.
-- 
 Bush    *Copyright alice!jj 1992, all rights reserved, except transmission
   vs       *by USENET and like facilities granted.      Said permission is
 Clinton  --    *granted only for complete copies that include this notice.
 Just Say !NO!       *Use on pay-for-read services specifically disallowed.
From: hira@cme.nist.gov (Ron Hira)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Caucasians don't understand
Date: 14 Aug 92 17:04:55 GMT
Reply-To: hira@cme.nist.gov
Organization: National Institute of Standards and Technology

In article <MDAY.92Aug14115302@jukebox.lcs.mit.edu>,
mday@jukebox.lcs.mit.edu (Mark Day) writes:
|>From: mday@jukebox.lcs.mit.edu (Mark Day)
|>Subject: Re: Caucasians don't understand
|>Date: 14 Aug 92 16:53:02 GMT
|>
|>
|>   hira@cme.nist.gov (Ron Hira) writes:
|>
|>   JESUS CHRIST!
|>
|>   How many times do I have to whine about you defining Caucasian as White.
|>   I'm Indian, which is considered caucasoid, but not White.
|>   Get it straight people!
|>
|>I find this article rude and repetitive.
|>
|>What really bothers me, though, is that it seems to imply that people
|>calling "whites" "caucasians" are somehow misusing well-defined
|>scientific terms, which would imply the existence of a scientific
|>theory of race.  As I've argued before, "race" is entirely a social
|>construct with no objective scientific basis (although the existence
|>of a scientific theory of race is a widely-believed myth).
|>
|>Perhaps the author would do better to simply accept that many people
|>in the U.S. use the word "caucasian" as a synonym for "white".
|>
|>--Mark Day
|>
|>mday@lcs.mit.edu
|>

Sometimes this author feels compelled to be rude and repetitive to get his
point across. Sure, maybe there are no good scientific definitions to 
race definitions; however, it is pretty common to lump Indians (or Desis 
if you prefer) in with Caucasoids. So maybe some of these people in the 
US will STOP using the word "caucasian" as a synonym for "white", and 
asian american for oriental. Both uses are incorrect and the author wishes
to identify a misuse as both annoying and insensitive.

Note that I'm a product of the much maligned U.S. public school system in 
white middle class suburbia, and I learned all of this there.

Thanks,
Ron
I'm caucasian but not whitey (just another whiney asian american)
From: timlee@btr.com (Timothy J. Lee  timlee@btr.com)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: GOP Adopts Buchanan's Wall Against Illegal Immigration
Date: 21 Aug 92 04:12:43 GMT

kamprath@caen.engin.umich.edu (Michael F. Kamprath) writes:
|But once "illegal immigration" is legalized, then the econmic advantage
|for the businesses to hire illegal aliens is gone.  Why?  Because now
|the businesses must pay these workers at least minimum wage, as opposed
|to the less-than-minimum-wage/slave-labor wages that they paid them before
|legalization.  Basically, businesses like the situation now because when
|they hire illegal aliens, everything can be "black;" no need to pay taxes,
|no need to meet minimum pay standards, no need to ensure worker safety, etc.
|This is because illegal aliens have no legal means to redress any employer
|abuses.

What's wrong with that side effect of legalizing currently illegal
immigration?  Shouldn't every worker have safe working conditions, etc.?
 
|I really do not understand why so-called liberal parties do not make 
|solving this situation part of their platform.  The Republicans is the
|only party that has offered a solution to this need-to-be-solved situation.

The Democrats have a significant labor union constituency that
views immigrants as competition (labor unions aren't any different
from other businesses when it comes to wanting to restrict
competition).  That's probably the reason why they don't generally
favor looser immigration restrictions.

The Republicans appear to be catering to those who are hostile
to immigration.  Bush's action on the Haitian refugees is an
example.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy J. Lee                 timlee@btr.com  ...!decwrl!btr!timlee
This message comes with no warranty, not even an implied warranty of
fitness for any particular purpose.
From: timlee@public.btr.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Racism a Thing of the Past? Re: Caucasians don't understand
Date: 17 Aug 92 06:44:26 GMT
Reply-To: timlee@btr.com (Timothy J. Lee)
Followup-To: soc.culture.asian.american

lulu@ucrengr.ucr.edu (david lu) writes:
|I'm Asian, and I have an optimistic view on racism.  But then
|again, I live in California.  Things could very well be different
|in other parts of the US.  Still, I believe that while racism
|exists, its becoming a thing of the past, fast.  I'd say give
|racism another 50 years, tops.

Overt racial prejudice and discrimination is mostly a thing of
the past in the USA.  Covert racial prejudice and discrimination
is a different story.  Matched-pair studies and the like discover
covert discrimination all the time.  However, it is nearly
impossible to prove or disprove the existence of covert discrimination
_in_an_individual_case_, unless one finds a matching person of
a different race to conduct a matched-pair test.  That's why
covert discrimination is such a difficult problem to deal with.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy J. Lee                 timlee@btr.com  ...!decwrl!btr!timlee
This message comes with no warranty, not even an implied warranty of
fitness for any particular purpose.
From: kevin@daffy.ee.lbl.gov (Kevin Gong)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Cantonese culture class
Date: 21 Aug 1992 21:41:47 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory, Berkeley
Distribution: ba
Reply-To: kevin@daffy.ee.lbl.gov (Kevin Gong)
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.112.42

A 4-hour mini course on Cantonese culture is being offered in El Cerrito.
The course covers Chinese festivals, lunar calendar, addressing family,
symbolisms, proverbs, conversation, and character writing.  The course
will take place September 12th and 19th (Saturdays) from 10am-12noon at
the El Cerrito Community Center.  The cost is $12 for residents of
El Cerrito, and $13.20 for non-residents.

Send me e-mail if you are interested and want more information.

 - kevin

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: dwv@cs.brown.edu (David W. Vorbrich)
Subject: Re: Trippy Posts Here
Organization: Brown Computer Science Dept.
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 18:47:07 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.233001.11801@Cadence.COM>, jyoung@Cadence.COM (John Young) writes:
|> 
|> Love women of any race,hate Homo's of any race!(no I'm not a homophobe or racist)
			  ^^^^ ^^^^^^

You may have just been stating your sexual preference (I'm assuming this because
the rest of your post was an attempt to find potential dates), however blatently
"hating Homo's" is really not an acceptable statement.  What are you saying... that
you're not a homophobe, you just hate them all?

Perhaps you should change your outlook a little.. or at least be more careful in
what you choose to say.  Let's see... I'm a white guy who's been dating an AAF for
4 years, and I don't make such socially flamable comments... you're a white guy
who can't get an AAF date... hmmmmmmm

-David V.
 dwv@cs.brown.edu
From: kevin@daffy.ee.lbl.gov (Kevin Gong)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Caucasian Clarification
Date: 14 Aug 1992 22:32:17 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory, Berkeley
Reply-To: kevin@daffy.ee.lbl.gov (Kevin Gong)
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.112.42
Summary: dictionary definition

In article <4851@dove.nist.gov> hira@cme.nist.gov writes:
>In article <1992Aug13.201311.19821@sco.com>, garyh@sco.COM (< Gary H >) writes:
>|>From: garyh@sco.COM (< Gary H >)
>|>Subject: Re: Caucasian Clarification
>|>Date: 13 Aug 92 20:13:11 GMT
>|>
>|>
>|>In article <4797@dove.nist.gov> hira@cme.nist.gov writes:
>|>!I've posted this before, but feel compelled to do so once again.
>|>!
>|>!I understand that the majority of AA's reading from and posting to SCAA are
>|>!Orientals, but I must OBJECT to you all equating Caucasians with whites.
>|>!

From Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary (1979):

Cau ca sian \ko-ka-zhen\ adj
	1:  of or relating to the Caucasus or its inhabitants
		(not what we're talking about)

	2a:  of or relating to the white race of mankind as classified
		according to physical features
		(what most of us mean)

	2b:  of or relating to the white race as defined by law specif.
		as composed of persons of European, No. African, or
		southwest Asian ancestry
		(what Ron insists we mean)

 - kevin
From: mday@jukebox.lcs.mit.edu (Mark Day)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Caucasian Clarification
Date: 17 Aug 92 16:21:07 GMT
	<25504@dog.ee.lbl.gov> <4891@dove.nist.gov>
Organization: MIT Laboratory for Computer Science


   hira@cme.nist.gov (Ron Hira) writes:
   Ok Kevin, here's what my Webster's Third Collegiate Dictionary (1988) states:

   Cau ca soid adj [ from the erroneous notion that the orig. home of the 
   hypothetical Indo-Europeans was the Caucasus] designating or of one of the 
   major geographical varieties of human beings, including peoples of Europe,
   Africa, the Near East, India, etc., who are generally characterized by tall
   stature, straight or wavy hair, etc. : loosely called the white race although 
   it embraces many peoples of dark skin color.

This is really getting sad.  How about if you *read* what you write?

It says right in that dictionary definition that people tend to equate
white with Caucasian.  

Curiously, the way that definition is written, it seems to claim that
"white" can be applied "loosely" to all Caucasoids.  If I were weird
enough to claim that you were "white" in spite of your (presumably
darker) actual skin tone, I might cite this definition to support my
position.

   Look, I'd prefer to keep "race" out of any discussion, since as has been 
   pointed out by others that the classifications are flawed at best. Your 
   discussion of caucasians is ambiguous to me, and where do people of Indian 
   descent get lumped? I guess that appealing to your sensitivity in this 
   matter is futile.

The first sentence makes sense, and the second contradicts it.  You
aren't avoiding the issue of racial classification by avoiding the
word "race".  You seem to want unambiguous racial terms and
definitions that allow you to make distinctions among (to use your
terms) whites, desis, and "orientals".

I can discern the following legitimate point buried deep within your
raving: there is no palatable term for describing people who appear to
have East Asian Ancestry.  "Asian American" as used in this group
isn't strictly correct, because Asia includes more than East Asia:
Asian American thus includes desis and, I suppose, Russians (making it
a pretty useless term for most purposes).  "Mongoloid" is even less
acceptable than "oriental", since it has connotations of mental
dysfunction.

However, your flaming about "caucasoids" is just a big waste.  There
are many words whose generally-accepted meaning is different from
their technical meaning, and the effective meaning of "caucasian" in
the U.S. is a synonym for "white".

Why not go pick on some really important example of language abuse
instead, like the way that "Ice Tea" is gradually replacing "Iced Tea"
as the beverage people drink in the summer?  :-)

--Mark Day

mday@lcs.mit.edu
Organization: Sophomore, English, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 13:16:08 -0400 
From: "Douglas S. Brashear" <db6j+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: One white boy

On 11-Aug-92 in One White Boy (was Re: Whit..
user Jim Pak@oakhill.sps.mot. writes:

[pretty lengthly whining, loud-mouthed, semi-funny, semi-useful, reply
by a guy who probably needs to get out more than sit behind the computer
so much deleted]

>p.s. And some people have the nerve to deny that this obnoxious superior
>     attitude in some CMs doesn't exist.

wow, this is a bit severe... :-)
Coming from the same point as the original postee (with a more subtle
approach to bboards like this one), I can say that I'm sure no harm was
intended...its just that, one has to be a bit forward when posting here
to be taken seriously!

Just thought I'd say that!
DOUG 
db6j+@andrew.cmu.edu
p.s.- Jim, you wouldnt be in SCAA yourself would you?