From: hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Deportation vs. Murder
Date: 20 Dec 92 19:55:24 GMT
Reply-To: hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Organization: North Carolina State University

In article <1h210tINNc11@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>,
bc744@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark Ira Kaufman) writes:
> 
> Brad Hernlem...
> 
> #In article <1gvbffINNo7s@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>,
> #bc744@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark Ira Kaufman) writes:
> #> 
> #>    There has been much talk about the deportations in the context
> #> of their political significance.  I wonder why terrorist activity
> #> and murders on the part of Arab terrorists directed Israelis, are
> #> not regarded as politically significant?  There seems to be a bit
> #> of a double standard here.
> #> 
> #>    A man is kidnapped.  A short time later, his body is found out
> #> on the side of some road, dumped like a bag of garbage.  The body
> #> indicates that he was bound and repeatedly stabbed to death.  The
> #> murder was carried out by an organization sworn to kill Jews.  It
> #> is a terrorist organization with hundreds of members.  They swore
> #> an oath to try to kill Israelis whenever and however they can.
> #> 
> #>    They are rounded up and booted out of the area.  They received
> #> money and clothing, and then were shown the door.  This eviction,
> #> this kicking out of terrorists is being procalimed as cruel.  But
> #> there has been not one word of protest from a single humanitarian
> #> or human rights group about kidnapping an innocent man, tying him
> #> up, and repeatedly stabbing him to death.  Why does the world say
> #> nothing about this act, but moans about the eviction of those who
> #> have sworn themselves to perform such acts?
> #> 
> #>   Have you 'humanitarians' no standards?  Are you so biased as to
> #> give tacit approval to such a torturous and sadistic murder?  Why
> #> do you care more about the murderers than you do the victim?  Are
> #> you indifferent to bloodshed if the blood being shed is Jewish?
> #> 
> #>    Jews are also human beings.  Many of you may not think so, but
> #> we are.  Is it acceptable to kidnap someone, bind him, and murder
> #> him by repeatedly stabbing him, if he is a Jew?  Mr. Toledano did
> #> not ever kill anyone.  He was not a murderer.  But he was killed.
> #> He was butchered like a piece of cattle.  And yet you who yell at
> #> the world about the eviction of people sworn to commit such acts,
> #> you say nothing about this man's death.
> #> 
> #>    The concept of human rights is one that should apply to people
> #> universally.  Furthermore, if one considers deporting a person to
> #> be worse than murdering a person, one has a distorted view of the
> #> severity of these to actions.  Would YOU rather be given clothing
> #> and money, and be kicked out.., or would you rather be kidnapped,
> #> tied in rope from head to toe, and be knifed to death?
> #
> #So all 400 of these people killed the one man? 
> 
>     No.  But all 400 of these people have sworn to kill the Jews.  
>     They are members of HAMAS and Islamic Jihad.  They have taken     
>     a genocidal oath, to kill Jews whenever possible.  Their oath
>     is to kill any Jews in Israel, not just soldiers of policemen
>     in the occupied territories.  Because of the genocidal nature
>     of their organizations, it is simply too dangerous for Israel
>     to wait until these racist zealots murders even one more Jew.
>                                             
>                                             So all the 1200 who were
> #given administrative detention helped kill the one man? The question is
> #justice. 
> 
>     The question may be justice now.  The question of justice has       
>     rarely been raised regarding the murder of innocent Jews. The 
>     question of justice is so selectively raised that it does not
>     always appear to be just.
>            
>            You have declared all 1600 of these people to be terrorists
> #without trial and without knowledge of any evidence. The Israeli
> #government has not even released the names of these people but YOU KNOW
> #that they are all guilty. Do you have some kind of extrasensory
> #perception? You know, your psychic powers could be put some good use, I
> #suppose. :-)
> 
>     These people were not charged with any crime.  They were made
>     to leave the country because they have sworn to kill the Jews
>     in Israel.  They may appeal their deportations.  Furthermore,
>     the deportations are for a period of about two years.

The names of these people has still not been released by the Israeli
government and none of them has been given a trial but, again, YOU KNOW
that they are all sworn to kill Jews. How do you KNOW these things?
Furthermore, how does one go about appealling their being forcibly taken
from their homes, blindfolded, handcuffed, and being dumped in freezing
rain on a barren hillside without food or shelter? Just because they
have been granted a right to "appeal" it is permissible to treat people
this way? How does one appeal their torture after it has already been
carried out?
 
>     If concern about the deportees is more than just an excuse to
>     criticize Israel, why has there been no mention of the manner
>     in which they were received by Lebanon?  Their so-called Arab
>                                              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>     brothers chose to leave them out in the cold.  And then there
>     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>     is the matter of the refugee camps.  These hell-holes are the
>     direct result of people pretending that being anti-israeli is
>     the same as being pro-Palestinian.  If people REALLY cared if
>     these people are treated like human beings, they might take a
>     look at how entities other than Israel treat them.  Until the
>     world examines how these people are being treated by entities
>     other than Israel, this political hypocrisy shall continue to
>     work against the Palestinians.
> 

From what I have heard, the Palestinians' "Arab brothers" have been
bringing food and fuel to help them in their plight. You can't say that
the Lebanese people are not helping. About the Lebanese government, you
know that governments around the world act in their own interest. Why is
it that the Israelis did not arrange with the Lebanese government to
take these people before deporting them? I understand that this is
unprecedented since Israel has always made arrangements with neighboring
governments before deporting Palestinians. I am not aware of a case
where a country has had the right to determine that a specific country
must accept their deportees (indeed most people find deportation to be
an exceedingly cruel action, in any case). Regardless of this, there is
no basis to your claim that the Lebanese people have shown no compassion
for the Palestinians who have been so cruelly mistreated.
 
> #Brad Hernlem (hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU)
> 
> 

Brad Hernlem (hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast