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Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
From: I.T.Marsh@man0507.wins.icl.co.uk (I.T.Marsh)
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Subject: re: Assimilated & re: Leeds v Stuttgart
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 08:24:05 +0000







Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject:    Assimilated Players
Date: Friday, 2 Oct 1992 15:22:27 CET
From: <MJMARTIN@ESTEC.BITNET>
In Message: <92276.152227MJMARTIN@ESTEC.BITNET> <MJMARTIN@ESTEC.BITNET>
M.J.Martin writes:


>Can someone explain how players are considered "assimilated" for this season
>Euro competitions. How were I.Rush (Liverpool) and G.Speed (Leeds) considered
>assimilated players and M.Hughes (Man.Utd.) and P.Bonner (Celtic) were not.

An assimilated player must have spent 5 years in the country of the club he is
representing including 3 years at under 19 level. This is a rule which applies
to all clubs entering European competition, NOT just British clubs.

Gary Speed qualifies under this rule having spent ALL of his career at
Leeds United. Stuttgart complained to UEFA that Gary Speed was a "foreigner"
and have been fined #5000 for doing so.

Mark Hughes did not spend the early part of his career in England, he 
originally played for Wrexham which as everyone knows is in his home country
of Wales. Therefore he does not and never can qualify as an "assimilated"
player. Being as he has already passed 19!

I'm not sure about Ian Rush. He definitely spent the early part of his career
in England (at Chester City). I'm not sure how his spell in Italy affects
his qualification as I thought you had to have spent 5 consecutive years
in the country of the club you are representing and I can't remember how
long he's been back.

I don't know the histoty of Pat Bonner, though I had a feeling he spent
the early part of his career in Ireland.

It doesn't matter if you have been in a country playing football for 10
years. If you didn't spend 3 of those years at under 19 level you don't
qualify as an assimilated player.

Finally as I said before even if Stuttgart hadn't brought any substitutes
onto the pitch it wouldn't have mattered. They were breaking the rule
by having more than 3 players in the squad.

Tom.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
From: I.T.Marsh@man0507.wins.icl.co.uk (I.T.Marsh)
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Subject: re: JC SUPERSTAR not good enough for Scotland
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 12:44:51 +0000







In Message-ID: <1992Oct5.091318.4199@spider.co.uk> Scott Jackson writes:

>In article <1992Oct2.123515.11589@cbfsb.cb.att.com> gmcdermo@cbnewsf.cb.att.com

>(graham.p.mcdermott) writes:
>>
>>Bankies for the Premier next season
>>(notice I said Premier not *Scottish* Premier - we were there first Ingerrland
)

The first what? The first to discover the word "premier"? Wow! what an
achievement.

>Good point Graham, this is becoming very annoying with the EBC particularly.
>The Premier League has been running since 1975 up here but this has been

I thought it was called the Scottish League Premier division? The English
one is called "The FA Premier League", thereby associating it with "The FA"
which is no way can be associated with anything Scottish. Rather like the 
Rangers/ Glasgow Rangers argument this one. It's all a matter of context.
If some thickies on telly want to call it "The Premier League" and forget
the FA bit I can't stop 'em. So in reality there's nowt wrong with the 
naming, if you want to complain, write to the BBC.

>completely ignored down in Ingerrland. Another example of this was on Friday
>during the One 'O Clock news on the EBC when they announced that Leeds (not
>the English Champions Leeds) had drawn the Scottish Champions Rangers. I
>thought that they broadcasted to the whole of the UK? What can you expect
>when you pay the same licence fee.

>It's a bit early but.....c'mon Norway!!

who?

>- --
> Scott Jackson              e-mail scottj@spider.co.uk  abuse  031-554-9424
> Spider Systems Limited     "...but Joe was to belie comparisons to all these
> Edinburry                   men and introduce a new concept to Scottish
> Scotland                    fitba' - a striker who could score a goal!!"

Tom.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
From: erkam@mohican.ctr.columbia.edu (Yusuf Murat Erkam)
Subject: Re: Turkish Soccer League / Venglos in Turkey
Organization: Columbia University Center for Telecommunications Research
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 18:23:04 GMT
X-Posted-From: mohican.ctr.columbia.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu


Joseph Venglos, a.k.a. the Doctor, is coaching the Istanbul team
Fenerbahce for the second year in a row. His job is still at stake though
after a shaky performance by the team through the 6th week of the league.
Their record is 4-1-2 (13 points), placed 6th in the league and have lost
twice at home to easy opponents. Fenerbahce, usually known by their policy
to collect stars of the Turkish league rather than introducing new/young 
players, have the most number of championships in the history of the Turkish
League and they have an impatient group of fans. For these reasons, last 
year's runner-up finish which gave them a berth at the UEFA cup, was not 
considered a success especially after Venglos was blamed of cowardly tactics
at the crucial match against last year's champions (and one of their 3 biggest
rivals) Besiktas. (Although his team was the favorite before the game, he 
made his tactics to settle for a draw, thinking that would help him win the 
race, but they lost after a goal at the 90th minute, and this costed them 
trophy - ironically it turned out that they would have been the champions 
if they could have had the draw).This year, he promised a championship but 
now the management is considering replacements. In short, he is criticised 
heavily on his passiveness against the management and his during-the-game 
decisions which usually come late. He does stand a last chance though, in 
the UEFA cup. Fenerbahce have eliminated their 1st round opponents Botev 
(from Bulgaria) and is now facing Sigma Olomouc (from Czechoslovakia) in 
the 2nd round. If they get through, he might keep his job....
-- 
| Yusuf Murat Erkam                                                           |
| Center for Telecommunications and Research     e-mail:erkam@ctr.columbia.edu|
| Columbia University			      			              |
| New York, N.Y. 10027                                                        |
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
From: manuel@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Manuel Balmaseda)
Subject: Re: Holland 2 - Poland 2
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 20:27:02 GMT


	Where are all those critics of Van Vossen now?  The kid showed that he
knows how to score goals, without him the Oranje would have being squeezed.

Manuel
From: J.M.Ross@man0507.wins.icl.co.uk
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: Re: Blackburn and other trends....
Date: 8 Oct 1992 04:31:18 -0500
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu







In article <SMK.92Oct7191300@scarp.dcs.ed.ac.uk> smk@dcs.ed.ac.uk
(Stefan Kahrs) writes:

>In article <_667*_I=JM_S=Ross_OU=man0507_O=icl_PRMD=icl_ADMD=gold_400_C=GB__@MH
S
>> J.M.Ross@man0507.wins.icl.co.uk writes:

>JMR>   This is from memory ... The following teams won the Football League Divi
s
ion
>JMR>   One the season after being promoted from Division Two:
>JMR>
>JMR>   1902 or 1906 (can't remember which)  Liverpool

It was 1906!

>JMR>   1932 Everton
>JMR>   1962 Ipswich Town
>JMR>   1978 Nottingham Forest

Forest were 3rd in Div 2 the previous year, all the others won Divs 2 and 1
in consecutive seasons.

>JMR>
>JMR>   The last two have only won the title once. I can't help feeling I've mis
s
ed
>JMR>   out someone ... maybe not.

I forgot Tottenham in 1951. Charlton Athletic deserve a mention, in the
mid-30s they won Div 3 (South) and were runners-up in Divs 2 and 1 in
consecutive seasons.

>JMR>
>JMR>   Can anyone supply similar lists for other leagues?

>For the Bundesliga, this is easy: none.
>(But the league only exists since 1963.)
>But it did happen on a few occasions (at least once) that a promoted team
>reached a UEFA-cup place:

>1981 Werder Bremen
>perhaps more often (F.Duesseldorf in 1971? B.Muenchen in 1965?)

>But a similar list would be interesting,
>about league champions relegated the following season.
>In the Bundesliga, this happened to 1.FC Nuernberg in 1968.

In the Football League, only Manchester City in 1938. They still managed
to score more goals than anyone else that year!

Incidentally, a couple of weeks ago someone asked about teams which have
been relegated the year after winning the FA Cup. It turned out to be a more
interesting question than I first thought, the answer is NOBODY.

+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
!  James M. Ross                            ! ICL Computers Ltd   !
+-------------------------------------------+ Wenlock Way         !
!  Tel:   061 223 1301 x2661                ! West Gorton         !
!  Email: j.m.ross@man0507.wins.icl.co.uk   ! MANCHESTER  M12 5DR !
!  EXAC:  j.m.zzross@uk03                   ! UK                  !
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
From: fr@compu.com (Fred Rump from home)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: Re: LEEDS OUT and IN AGAIN
Date: 12 Oct 92 16:15:44 GMT
Organization: CompuData Inc.

pablo@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Pablo A Iglesias) writes:

>In article <137@bjcong.bj.co.uk> timk@bjcong.UUCP (TIM KENNEDY) writes:
>>Glorious Leeds United are to replay the Hun in Barcelona on Friday night.
>>Batty and Dorigo have been released from international duty (stop that
>>tittering you at the back!) so that they are free to play.


>Why don't you get your racist remarks off the net.  Regardless of what you
>think of UEFA and their decisions, "HUN" is a derogatory term and has no place
>in rec.sport.soccer!

How can it be derogatory when it only shows stupidity?  Stupid people can't be
derogatory - they simply don't know any better and have to express themselves
that way.  In any case, it was probably meant as a bad joke.

Fred
-- 
W. Fred Rump 	office:	   fred@COMPU.COM     'mans feet have grown/so big 
26 Warren St.   home: fred@icdi10.compu.com  that he/forgets his littleness'
Beverly, NJ. 08010                          		Don Marquis 
609-386-6846    bang:uunet!cdin-1!icdi10!fr   
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
From: bhag@etnxb.eua.ericsson.se (Boerge Haga 2634)
Subject: (spoiler) U21 England-Norway EC-qual
Organization: Ericsson Telecom AS, Oslo, Norway
Distribution: rec.sport.soccer
Date: 14 Oct 92 10:53:25

EC-qualifier U21 October 13th

England - Norway 0-2 (0-1)
London Road, Peterborough
Att: 4918

Goals: 0-1 Frank Strandli (3), 0-2 Alf Inge Haaland (68)

England (4-4-2): Walker,Hendon,Ehiogu,Awford,Wright,Watson
                 (66 Sheron),Parlour, Bart-Williams,Clark,
                 McManaman,Heany (66 Allen)

Norway (4-5-1):  Ulla, Nilsen (82 Moen), Haaland, Ulfstein,
                 Pedersen, Sundgot, Svindal Larsen (61 Swift),
                 Storvik, Solberg, Oestenstad, Strandli

Yellow card: Sander Solberg, Norway

Referee: Piero Ceccarini, Italy

 
--
Boerge Haga
Ericsson AS, Norway
e-mail:etnbhag@etnxb.eua.ericsson.se
From: andy@rocky.gte.com (Andrew Busa)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: No More Rule Changes says FIFA
Date: 15 Oct 92 20:50:50 GMT
Article-I.D.: europa.1992Oct15.205050.5461
Organization: GTE Contel Federal Systems
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]


Soccer America had an interview with Sepp Blatter(sp) from FIFA and firmly
stated that there would be no more rule changes before World Cup 94.  I can't
say that I am delighted with this after all the games last night averaged just
a little more than 1 goal a game.  Blatter did say something that I did like.
They are seriously considering changing the first round points system from 2
points for a win to three points for a win.  This would help a little but
the sport still needs more help.  Everybody has always assumed that the game
would turn itself around but it has become painfully obvious that the coaches
will not allow this to happen.  Which in turn will mean incredible negative
press in my country when we are being told that the greatest sporting event in
the world is coming to America but you might have to go to two games before
you see a goal.

No I don't want everybody to flame me.  I am a huge fan of the sport.  I can
happily sit through 0-0 games if they involve teams that I follow. Unfortunatel
we have no teams here so I follow the US National Team, Sheffield Wednesday,
Blackburn, Real Betis, Saubruken(sp), FC Boom, Willem II ect.  I'm sure most of
you can figure out the pattern.  But when I watch two teams play I want to see
more offense.  I thought what happened in Italy two weeks ago was fantastic.
Lets hope it was not an aberrition but hopefully a new trend towards more 
offense.

I know a lot of people say that more gaols does not make for better watching 
but in my 20 years of watching and playing the sport I have never seen a
0-0 game that I thought was more exciting than a 4-3 game. I would love to see
soccer goals increase from the insanely small amount that is present in
International play to the level of scoring that is present in league play.

I'm so depressed.  We need a good World Cup in my country or we will never get
a pro league off the ground.

Andy
From: srd@ukc.ac.uk (S.R.Davies)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: Memorable quotes
Date: 13 Oct 92 12:34:05 GMT
Reply-To: srd@ukc.ac.uk (S.R.Davies)
Organization: Computing Lab, University of Kent at Canterbury, UK.


	Tomorrow night, England play Norway at Wembley in a Group 2
 Qualifying Match for the 1994 World Cup. This will be England's first
 game in the group. Norway have had a great start, beating San Marino (twice)
 and Holland, so will go to Wembley confident of getting a good result.

	This was not the case in 1981, when Norway's only ever victory 
 over England came in a World Cup qualifier in Oslo, Norway unexpectedly
 winning 2 - 1. Now, when a team with a modest history pulls off a surprise
 win over a team such as England (i.e. one with a long and important
 tradition/history, etc.), it can generate strong emotions amongst their
 supporters. 

	For those who have not heard it, and for those (like me) who will
 be amused to be reminded of it, below is the memorable outburst, which was
 delivered in English by Norwegian TV commentator Bjorg Lillelian when
 the final whistle blew, completing Norway's victory :

	" It is quite unbelievable .... we have beaten England. England,
 home of the giants! Lord Nelson, Lord Beaverbrook, Sir Winston Churchill,
 Sir Anthony Eden, Clement Atlee, Henry Cooper, Lady Diana.
	"Maggie Thatcher, can you hear me? Maggie Thatcher, I have a
 message for you. We have beaten England in the World Cup! As they say
 in your language : `Your boys took a hell of a beating tonight' ."

	Alas, Lillelian is now dead, so we can not look forward to a repeat
 performance tomorrow. Of course, this time it will be no surprise result
 if Norway beat England. Win, lose or draw, I just hope England manage to
 play a bit of football this time, after their miserable efforts in Sweden.

	Regards, Steve.
From: CSALLEN@uga.cc.uga.edu (Christopher S. Allen)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: Re: Denmark panel for wednesday anyone?????
Date: 7 Oct 1992 22:32:22 -0500
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

Attn: Gary Spain

>...we have only lost 3 competitive games in the last five years and
>none since 1990

One moment please.......

 May 1992    RFK Stadium - Washington

               USA             3:1              Ireland

 The US national team won the US Cup with a 1:0 victory over Portugal
and a 1:1 draw with Italy. It was the only time they had all their
wandering internationals together at the same time.

Best, Chris

|---------------------------------------------------------------|
|Prof. Christopher S. Allen                Voice: (706) 542-2984|
|Political Science Department                FAX: (706) 542-4421|
|University of Georgia                Bitnet: csallen@uga.bitnet|
|Athens, GA 30602 - USA         Internet: csallen@uga.cc.uga.edu|
|---------------------------------------------------------------|
From: B.Munro@bnr.co.uk (Bruce Munro)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: Re: Gary Lineker (subtitled: what a waste)
Date: 16 Oct 1992 05:41:45 -0500
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

Phew! Back on the net after an enforced absence due to a holiday and
major networking upheavals at this site! Note the new e-mail address.

Excerpts from Soccer: 15-Oct-92 Re: Gary Lineker (subtitled.. Glenn
Hill@inmos.co.uk (517)

> In article <1992Oct12.085104.6809@cs.nott.ac.uk> geh@cs.nott.ac.uk
> (Gavin Edward Hutchinson) writes:

> >Gary Lineker doesn't begin his Japanese career until next season, he
> >is spending his time presenting various football shows on BBC TV and
> >Radio 5.

> Does anyone out there understand this? Why isn't he still playing for
> Spurs until he goes? It seems a bit of waste of his playing time
> considering the finite career of footballer. If it's been built into his
> contract, I'm surprised that he agreed to it.

One of the reason he didn't want to play this season is that he needed
an operation on the toe that's been troubling him on and off since
Italia '90 and before. Can't remember what the problem was exactly, but
playing almost continually has meant that it has never healed properly
and often meant he had to have pain-killing injections before matches.

--
Bruce Munro.  <B.Munro@bnr.co.uk> || ...!mcsun!uknet!bnruk!B.Munro
BNR Europe Ltd, Oakleigh Rd South, London N11 1HB. | Note the change
Phone : +44 81 945 2174 or +44 81 945 4000 x2174   | of e-mail address.
"There are no strangers, only friends we don't recognise" - Hank Wangford
From: Dario Beksic
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: Croatian Football League
Summary: 7th round scores and table
Date: 11 Oct 92 15:26:11 GMT
Article-I.D.: uflorida.37315
Originator: beksic@red14


	Hi there!

	We are a bit late this week, as I've just received the
scores of the 7th round, from Karel as usual, but by mediation
of a colleague whose system didn't experience problems. Thanks
sincerely! And, here they come:

Osijek  - Segesta	1-0
Hajduk  - Radnik	3-1
Istra	- Dubrovnik	1-0
Rijeka	- Zagreb	1-0
Varteks	- Belisce	2-1
HASK-G. - Zadar		4-0
Pazinka - Sibenik	1-0
Inker	- Cibalia	4-1

	The table after 7 rounds is as follows:

1. 	Hajduk		       12
2.	HASK-Gradjanski	       12
3.	Rijeka		       12
4.	Istra		       11
5.      Inker		       10
6.	Zagreb			8
7.	Varteks			8
8.	Radnik			7
9.	Zadar			6
10.	Cibalia			6
11.	Osijek			6
12.	Segesta			4
13.	Dubrovnik		4
14.	Belisce			3
15. 	Pazinka			3
16.	Sibenik			0

	It seems that the quality of the league is levelling off,
there are fewer blowout victories, but also fewer goals overall.
Unfortunately, the quality at which this nivelation happenning is
rather suspect, to say the least.

	In this round HASK-Gradjanski's offense finally came alive
and I'm sure that some nostalgia for the coveted "White Scarf" '82
season was awoken among the fans. Although I'm a big fan of their
chief rival Hajduk, I'm glad that Ciro Blazevic is doing well again
as he remains my favourite coach, perhaps after Menotti. Hajduk
seems to have done the job quite routinely against Radnik of Velika
Gorica, and Istra of Pula is still tough and hanging in there at
the very top. Clearly, the game of the day was the minimal but
important win of Rijeka over Zagreb in the matchup of the two teams
of white colour. Zagreb has thereby suffered another setback after
that loss in Split two rounds ago, it seems that they're really
experiencing a snowball effect. On the other hand, Rijeka's very
young team remains in the hunt for the title with legit aspirations.

	I have no information on the second leg of the 1/16th final
of the national Cup, that must have been played last wednesday. As
always, upsets are to be expected in the elimination format...

	So much for now, I hope all of you have a nice day and a
lot of fun in another football weekend.
						Dario
From: marco@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu (Marco Petroni)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: Ascoli and Bierhoff (was Re: Italian League...)
Date: 8 Oct 92 13:45:20 GMT
Organization: McGill Research Centre for Intelligent Machines, Montreal, Canada


In article <1992Oct7.150357.29278@ethome.et.iupui.edu> tom@lightning.cadcam.iupui.edu writes:
>> Serie B, Week 5; Games played Sunday, October 4, 1992:
>> 
>> Ascoli		3	Piacenza	0
>
>How is the Austrian forward Bierhoff doing at Ascoli, Marco? Is he still there
>or have they sold him (I think he was actually property of somebody else?)..

He's doing quite well with Ascoli, from the little news that I hear
regarding Ascoli (even if they are one of the teams that I cheer for).
I'm not exactly sure but I heard that Bierhoff was either suspended for
this match against Piacenza, or will be suspended for next Sunday's match.

In any case, Ascoli seems to have turned things around after their
pathetic performance last season in 'A'. While I was in Italy during the
month of August, the big news from Ascoli was that their goalkeeper,
Lorieri, had apparently refused a contract from Perugia (who is in Serie C)
who had offered him more money than he is currently making. He was
quoted as saying that he wanted to stay and help Ascoli return to Serie A
once again. Needless to say, this won him praise from the team president,
the very colourful Rozzi, who said that in these days of high salaries,
Lorieri was a player motivated by his love for the game and for his team...


Marco...
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Marco Petroni - VE2VTN - "Forza Milan! En ROUGE et BLACK." "Forza Ancona!"
	-- McGill Research Centre for Intelligent Machines (McRCIM), 
                         McGill University, Montreal, Canada.  
 INTERNET/BITNET: marco@larry.mcrcim.mcgill.edu  or marco@mcrcim.mcgill.ca
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Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer