HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: phil@dgbt.doc.ca (Phil Blanchfield)
Subject: Re: Subnetting on non-byte boundaries
Reply-To: phil@dgbt.doc.ca
Organization: The Communications Research Centre
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 18:20:31 GMT

In article 16SEP199210061324@jester.is.macsch.com, s_vossler@macsch.com (Scott Vossler) writes:
> 
>    We are looking at the possibility of subnetting our Class B address range,
> using 10 bits for the network number and 6 bits for the host number.  I know
> that the CISCO routers can handle this, but how about other vendors.  What
> experience do the Interneter's have with non-cisco equipment and subnetting.
> 
>    I am interested in hearing the trials and tribulations that others have
> encountered when subnetting on a non-byte boundary.
> 
>      /=====================================================================\
>      |  Scott Vossler                  | Internet : s_vossler@macsch.com   | 
>      |  Computer Operations & Networks | Voice    : (213) 259-4935         |
>      |  MacNeal-Schwendler Corp        | Fax      : (213) 259-3838         |
>      |  Los Angeles,  Calif  90041     |                                   |
>      \=====================================================================/
> 

One problem that you have is with the nameserver if you don't stick to byte
boundries your reverse mapping will have to be in one huge file on one machine.
However, if you split up your B as a bunch of class C networks you can grant
authority for the various Class C's to other nameservers.

If I were running the Class B reverse mapping nameserver I would insist that the
B is broken up into a bunch of calss C's.

---
Phil Blanchfield
The Communications Research Centre 3701 Carling Avenue, Ottawa Ontario CANADA
Internet: phil@dgbt.doc.ca
From: edi@hadassah.bitnet
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet
Subject: Re: NE2000 and ethernet
Date: 30 Sep 92 13:22:33 +0200
Organization: Hadassah Medical Center. Jslm Israel

eratho@eras165.ericsson.se (Thomas W Nilsson) writes:
> I have run into a very strange "miss"-behaviour of a ethernet card and IDE-disk.
>
> I recently bought two NE2000 compatible card. One I mounted in a 386SX with a
> 40 Mb IDE drive. In this configuration it is working without any problem.
>
> The other one I have tried to install into another 386SX with a 105 Mb disk
> from NEC. What happens is that the system (BIOS) complains during the boot
> "DISK NOT READY, PLEASE INSERT BOOT DISKETT INTO DRIVE A" i.e. the system
> won't find the HD. If I boot the system from the floppy the hard disk
> is virtually "non existent".
>
>[stuff delted]

I have recently switched a small LAN from Lantastic 2MB cards to
NE2000 compatible Ethernet cards. I have had troubles getting one Netbios
to work on all the PCs.  Novell's IPX + Netbios now works on most PCs.
Still there is one PC (386/20MHz) left which absolutely refuses to cooperate.
It seems that the PC does not get receive interrupts...

If you, or any of the other readers, knows what is happening, please let
me know.  Thank you.
--
Edi Landau

Hadassah University Hospital, Jerusalem, Israel.
Bitnet: Edi@Hadassah       Phone: 972-2-447312/3
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet
From: barr@tramp.Colorado.EDU (BARR DOUG)
Subject: Using different catagory wires in series
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1992 15:24:33 GMT

Some time ago the question came up: Is it acceptable to use a catagory
5 wire in series with catagory 3 UTP wiring? According
to EIA/TIA TR41.8.1 "Additional Transmission Specifications for Unshielded
Twisted-Pair Connecting Hardware" technical systems bulletin the answer is
yes. Catagory 3 wire can be used with catagory 3 wire. Catagory 4 wire can
be used with catagory 4 and 3 wire. Catagory 5 wire can be used with
catagory 5, 4 and 3. 

The higher catagories exibit less dB loss than the lower catagories,
and performed better in the near end cross talk test. The document also
points out that there are connectors designed for the higher catagories, and
implies that these connectors can be used with lower catagory wire.

I should also note that the bulliten is offered as basis for discussion and 
is not a binding proposal and the requirements are subject to change after
more study.

Catagory 3	for use for voice and data up to 10Mbs
Catagory 4      for use for voice and data up to 16Mbs
Catagory 5      for use for transmission rates up to 100Mbs

Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet
From: seifert@netcom.com (Rich Seifert)
Subject: Re: Surge protection for ThinWire
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 23:46:17 GMT

In article <BvICts.wA@raleng.mtc.com>, moore@raleng.mtc.com (Dave Moore) writes:
> We've got a ThinWire segment of our Ethernet running underground through PVC pipe a couple
> hundred feet to a seldom used machine in a small building beside our main building.  Twice
> this summer the Ethernet card in that machine fried mysteriously while the machine was
> unattended and powered off.  Suspicions have fallen on lightning or some other surge
> coming in on the ThinWire, as nothing other than the Ethernet card has been damaged.
> The multiport repeater, a Allied Telesis Centrecom 3008, which is at the other end of the
> wire, has not suffered any damage.
> 
> To all you Ethernet gurus out there, does our lightning theory seem plausible?  Does
> anybody have any experience with surge protectors on ThinWire segments?  I've seen such
> things in a couple of catalogs and was wondering if they really work.  Any input would be
> appreciated.  Thanks.
> 

Lightning is a distinct possibility. I would also check whether there
are multiple grounds on the thinwire. Im not sure about the Allied
Telesis unit, but many repeaters provide the (one and only recommended)
ground for the coax cable. Check to see if there is another path,
especially in your remote location. That unit could be powered from
a different branch circuit (I once had a machine powered from a different
power company on the same wire). This could cause heavy loop currents in the
coax. This shouldn't "fry" the NIC, but you never know what the NIC
vendor did with the coax ground on their board.

-- 
Rich Seifert                    Networks and Communications Consulting
seifert@netcom.com              (408) 996-0922
                                (408) 996-2860 FAX
"... specialists in Local Area Networks and Data Communications systems"
From: zlsiida@fs1.mcc.ac.uk (dave budd)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet
Subject: Netware Lite with RM cards
Date: 1 Oct 92 15:26:58 GMT
Organization: Manchester Computing Centre

I had it working - once.  But the users had a hardware problem on one of the 
machines, and claimed it was due to the netware, so I fiddled with it.  
Turned out the problem was down to one or both of the BIOS chip screwing the 
keyboard or some bad sectors on the hard disk.  They fixed that.  Now I can'
t get the netware going again.

Anybody done it?

The install troubles were:
IPXODI is no good for RM cards (I think) so I used IPX310AT (that's what the 
BAT file runs now, anyway!)
The install procedure has never heard of RM, so I told it something else 
then edited the CFG and BAT files.
As usual, I was dumb enough not to write down how I did it the time that it 
worked.

HELP!


              Have another day    [Armageddon, the musical] 
  Dave Budd, MCC, Oxford Rd, Manchester, England   (44|0)61-275-6033  
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet
From: anil@quiver.enet.dec.com (Anil Rijsinghani)
Subject: Re: spanning tree bridge specifications
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 03:14:12 GMT


It doesn't really matter what kind of spanning tree you turn on,
dec or ieee, because they're both basically identical.  The hello
message format is different but contains the same information.
dec bridges other than the LB100 implement both types of trees
as well as a migration algorithm that allow them to detect
which tree to use based on other bridges present (unless they've
been locked into 802 mode).

In general, it's advisable to stay with a *single* spanning tree in
any extended LAN.  If all of your bridges are capable of running 802.1D,
then you'd be better off using that mode -- since all your bridges
are able to understand each other.  Multiple trees can create trouble
hard to debug unless you understand the configuration well.  Even on
remote ports it's possible to eliminate disruptions caused by changes
with careful selection of root priorities on a couple bridges.

agr
------------------------
anil@quiver.enet.dec.com
From: bennett@dstos3.dsto.gov.au
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet
Subject: Re: Can Token Ring wire be used for 10BaseT?
Date: 29 Sep 92 15:16:35 GMT
Organization: Defence Science and Technology Organisation

In article <6700057@hprnd.rose.hp.com>, pat@hprnd.rose.hp.com (Pat Thaler) writes:
> You can use IBM Type 1 or2 (150 ohm) STP to run 10BASE-T.  There is one
> significant difference between this wire and the UTP that 10BASE-T was
> designed to run on which could cause a problem.  The impedance of the
> UTP is nominally 100 ohms while the impedance of the STP is 150 ohms.
> This difference in impedance can cause reflections which interfere with
> communication.  Fortunately, the problem can be solved by using a device
> called a balun to transform the impedance and make the cable look like
> it is 100 ohms to the 10BASE-T adapter.  

Mind if I query that ?  In 10base5 and 10base2 there is a DC component of the 
signal.  Does that also apply in 10baseT ?  If so, the balun wouldn't work.

> I am not saying that it will fail if you don't use a balun.  In many cases
> it works even without adapting the impedance.  The safest course is to 
> use the balun.  If no balun is used, the impedance difference is more 
> likely to cause a problem on short runs of STP than on long ones.  

Better yet, get 10baseT cards (obviously need matching chassis :-) designed
for 150 ohm cable.  At least one manufacturer has them (3com-Isolan) 

Regards,

John Bennett                                E-mail: bennett@dstos3.dsto.gov.au
Head, Networks Group                        Phone : +61 8 259 5292
Corporate Information Systems               FAX   : +61 8 259 5537
DEFENCE SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY ORGANISATION Postal: Bld 73 Labs Area
AUSTRALIA                                           PO Box 1500 Salisbury 
            "Lord Warden of the Sync Ports"         South Australia  5108
                (DSTO Network Manager)              AUSTRALIA
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet
From: fontaine@sri.ucl.ac.be (Alain Fontaine)
Subject: Good, but small RJ45 plugs ??
Followup-To: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet
Organization: Universite Catholique de Louvain
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 10:23:01 GMT

This is a rather trivial problem, but we need a solution anyway...		

We used to terminate UTP with RJ45 plugs made by Thomas & Betts, and called
'Narrow IDC plug'. Up to know, those plugs fitted nicely in the jacks of
all	
the UTP based equipment we used. We now have found some hubs where the RJ45
sockets are included in a single 'strip', and the 'narrow' plugs are not
narrow enough anymore (let's say that they are less than a millimeter (or
1/32") too wide - I mean the part of the housing that stays outside the
RJ45	
jack).

So the question is: does anyone know plugs suitable to terminate twisted
pair
cables, high quality but narrower than narrow ???             /AF 
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet
From: mju@mudos.ann-arbor.mi.us (Marc Unangst)
Subject: Who makes 10BaseT<->10Base2 repeaters?
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 01:20:00 GMT
Organization: The Programmer's Pit Stop, Ann Arbor MI

I work in the technical support department of a computer dealer, and
we have lately been doing a lot of business in 10BaseT networking
cards.  (Makes sense, since we are really no longer recommending
10Base2 except in "friendly" and localized environments.)
Unfortunately, our in-house network is still 10Base2, and we don't
have any plans to change it in the near future.  This causes problems
when us folks in tech support want to test a 10BaseT card, since we
don't have any place to plug it in.  A full-fledged 10BaseT hub would
be overkill, since we really only need to connect one 10BaseT card to
the 10Base2 network at a time, and don't need to interconnect 10BaseT
cards.  It would be much better if we could get some sort of
repeater-type device with a 10Base2 BNC on one end and a 10BaseT RJ-45
on the other.  We could then connect the 10BaseT card to the repeater,
plug the repeater into the 10Base2 network, and proceed to test the
network card.

Unfortunately I have been unable to find any such device.  Does
anybody have some specific brand/model recommendations?  Does anybody
know about how much we should expect to pay for such a device?

-- 
Marc Unangst, N8VRH         | "There are two ways to solve this problem:
mju@mudos.ann-arbor.mi.us   | the hard way, and the easy way.  Let's start
                            | with the hard way."
                            |   - W. Scheider, from a Physics lecture
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet
From: hoens@gmd.de (Guenter Hoens)
Subject: Re: Ethernet address of 00: 00:00:00:00:00
Organization: GMD, Sankt Augustin, Germany
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 08:03:30 GMT

In <slendt.51@.unomaha.edu> slendt@.unomaha.edu (Steven Lendt - Data Comm) writes:

>Our network analyzer has found a Novell file server that says
>it's physical address is all zeros.  This is interesting because
>we are seeing the workstation traffic to/from this server all
>over campus, even though the server and workstations are behind
>a bridge.

>Could this be due to the odd hardware address of the server's
>Enet card?  Any opinions on other problems this type of address
>might cause?

we found this address on our network too, but in connection with tcp/ip.
unfortunately the destination-ip-address was FFFFFFFF, the source-address
was 00000000. so we could not find the origin of these messages, at least 
it was not easy.

it turned out to be a mistake in the programming of the internet-protocol.
we think, that 00:00:00:00:00:00 is NOT a normal address on the 
ethernet
so lomg
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------
* Guenter Hoens, GMD - I8, 
* German National Research Center for Computer Science
* hoens@gmd.de    (02241) 14-2408
From: pat@hprnd.rose.hp.com (Pat Thaler)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1992 00:06:24 GMT
Subject: Re: Re: 50ohm / 75ohm,  more questions
Organization: HP Roseville Networks Division
From: art@acc.com (Art Berggreen)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet
Subject: Re: Ethernet address of 00: 00:00:00:00:00
Date: 2 Oct 92 21:19:53 GMT
Organization: ACC, Advanced Computer Communications

In article <booth.13.0@lub001.lamar.edu> booth@lub001.lamar.edu (John Booth) writes:
>
>An all Zeros Ethernet Address is a type of broadcast used by Sun workstations
>and other (older) TCP/IP implmentations. The standard now is pretty much 
>all ones (FF:FF:FF:FF:FF:FF), although most TCP/IP implementations will 
>still give you a choice between the two. 

BZZZZZT, I can't let this one go past...

Early TCP/IP implementations used an all zero IP ADDRESS to indicate that
this was an IP BROADCAST packet.  This was mapped to a media broadcast
address for transmission.  For Ethernet, this has always been
FF:FF:FF:FF:FF:FF.
(should have been a multicast, but that's yet another story).

>The reason it is being passed through by the bridge is due to it being a 
>broadcast address. That is a physically impossible Controller address. If 
>you want to check the REAL address of the controller, open the server and 
>look on the card. Somewhere on the card will be the actual address. 

By definition, Ethernet Multicast addresses (which includes the broadcast
address) all have the first bit on the wire set (LSbit of 1st byte).
Thus 00:00:00:00:00:00 is NOT a broadcast address.

>If you are not using all zeros broadcast addresses for your network, 
>
>You have a problem somewhere:
>
>1) On the Novell File Server configuration
>2) A mis-interpretation about where and how that all zeros broadcast is 
>   being transmitted.

There is either a misconfigured node or a broken piece of hardware.

>John

Art
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet
From: karl@ddsw1.mcs.com (Karl Denninger)
Subject: Re: Experience with switching plugs?
Summary: Yep
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 23:55:08 GMT
Organization: Macro Computer Solutions, Inc., Chicago, IL

In article <1992Sep28.105209.26767@uklirb.informatik.uni-kl.de> kirchner@uklira.informatik.uni-kl.de (Reinhard Kirchner) writes:
>
>Hello,
>
>as you all know, when on ethernet one opens the wire, the net is down.
>
>To overcome this there are now various systems of plugs on the market
>which close the ( thin ) wire when the cable is unplugged.
>
>I know about such a plugging system from AMP, and some others having plugs
>like the german telefone plugs.
>
>Does anybody have experience with such ethernet plugging systems ?
>
>I heard about breaking outlet cables etc., but these opinions where second
>hand.
>
>Thanks for any answer.

Don't screw with these.

They're fine for a year or two.  Then you start having STRANGE problems.
Like connections which stop working at random.  You wiggle ALL the
connectors until you find the one which is "loose".  Yuck.

I was involved in rewiring a site for UTP when our thinnet network, based 
on these AMP thingies, decided to get too damn flakey to deal with anymore. 
Also, the AMP "pluglets", which you MUST use to terminate these, are damn
expensive.

Put in good-quality UTP instead, and be done with it.

--
Karl Denninger (karl@ddsw1.MCS.COM, <well-connected>!ddsw1!karl)
Data Line: [+1 312 248-0900] Anon. arch. (nuucp) 00:00-06:00 C[SD]T
Request file: /u/public/sources/DIRECTORY/README for instructions

Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet
From: anil@quiver.enet.dec.com (Anil Rijsinghani)
Subject: Re: Good CRC, mangled data was Re: Weird Ethernet Behavior
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 23:27:08 GMT


In article <1992Oct1.032022.15472@telebit.com>, bjork@telebit.com (Steven Bjork) writes...
>In article <1ad8q7INNe3o@matt.ksu.ksu.edu>
> rrsum@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Rick Summerhill) writes:
> 
>[detective story wrt packet mangling]
> 
>>network integrity has been compromised?  How can a packet get munged
>>by a bad connection and still satisfy the CRC checks associated with
>>Ethernet?  Has anyone ever seen this type of behavior before?  Does
> 
>One of the more bizzare tidbits I've seen in the Internet
>Monthy Reports was how a T1 (or T3) link was swapping
>a set of eight or so octets of data... Nothing like having
>the order of your data changed on you on the fly!
> 
>--Steven

    Seems like that would cause the opposite behaviour from what was
    described, since UDP checksum is order-insensitive and CRC isn't..

    As far as the original problem, undetected memory corruption
    in relays which regenerate CRC's but leave checksums alone could
    have this effect.  (finally, a demonstrated use of UDP checksum!)

    agr
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet
From: fitz@wang.com (Tom Fitzgerald)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet
Subject: Re: Subnetting on non-byte boundaries
Date: 6 Oct 92 06:20:48 GMT
Organization: Wang Labs, Lowell MA, USA

> s_vossler@macsch.com (Scott Vossler) writes:

>>   We are looking at the possibility of subnetting our Class B address range,
>> using 10 bits for the network number and 6 bits for the host number.  I know
>> that the CISCO routers can handle this, but how about other vendors.  What
>> experience do the Interneter's have with non-cisco equipment and subnetting.

phil@dgbt.doc.ca (Phil Blanchfield) writes:

> One problem that you have is with the nameserver if you don't stick to byte
> boundries your reverse mapping will have to be in one huge file on one
> machine.  However, if you split up your B as a bunch of class C networks you
> can grant authority for the various Class C's to other nameservers.
> If I were running the Class B reverse mapping nameserver I would insist that
> the B is broken up into a bunch of calss C's.

That's exaggerating it a little.  No matter how things are subnetted, the
reverse-mapping records don't all have to be in one big file.  But you do
have to delegate them at the 8-bit boundary if you delegate at all.

For the case mentioned (10-bit subnet, 6-bit host), the top nameserver has
to delegate the subnets in clumps of 4 adjacent subnet numbers.  This is
indeed a pain.  But if you're planning on having a single nameserver for
the whole class B anyway, or can automate the construction of the zone
files, I wouldn't call this a big obstacle.

If you want to have subnets bigger than 254 hosts, it's even easier, you
can package the delegation records together and have one nameserver per
subnet again.

The real criterion is, do you really need more than 254 subnets?

-- 
Tom Fitzgerald   Wang Labs       fitz@wang.com   "I went to the universe today;
1-508-967-5278   Lowell MA, USA                   It was closed...."
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet
From: gene@aee.aee.com (Gene Kochanowsky)
Subject: Re: Surge protection for ThinWire
Organization: Associated Electronic Engineers
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 13:18:30 GMT

moore@raleng.mtc.com (Dave Moore) writes:

>We've got a ThinWire segment of our Ethernet running underground through PVC pipe a couple
>hundred feet to a seldom used machine in a small building beside our main building.  Twice
>this summer the Ethernet card in that machine fried mysteriously while the machine was
>unattended and powered off.  Suspicions have fallen on lightning or some other surge
>coming in on the ThinWire, as nothing other than the Ethernet card has been damaged.
>The multiport repeater, a Allied Telesis Centrecom 3008, which is at the other end of the
>wire, has not suffered any damage.

>To all you Ethernet gurus out there, does our lightning theory seem plausible?  Does
>anybody have any experience with surge protectors on ThinWire segments?  I've seen such
>things in a couple of catalogs and was wondering if they really work.  Any input would be
>appreciated.  Thanks.

>Dave Moore
>Memorex Telex
>moore@raleng.mtc.com

Hi Dave,

	The problem is caused by connecting two buildings with seperate 
electrical systems. The surge could have been caused by just about
anything and is the direct result of a ground loop between the two buildings.
Unfortunately, your Macs ethernet card, completed the loop. It is common practice
when connecting separate buildings over ethernet, to use fiber. This will
eliminate the problem.

Good Luck

Gene Kochanowsky
gene@aee.com

-- 
Gene Kochanowsky                           | "And remember ....
Associated Electronic Engineers, Inc.      |       The better you look ... 
(904)893-6741 Voice, (904)893-2758 Fax     |       the more you will see."
gene@aee.com                               |               Miss Lidia
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet