HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sr2s+@andrew.cmu.edu (Seth Malcolm Redmore)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Law Enforcement Only
Date: 16 Nov 92 16:45:53 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.Yf1nfqS00WB70X2F5g

Hello folks!

I have heard several different rumors about (well, only two, actually
:) ) "law enforcement only" ammunition.

Here they are:

1) that the companies _do_ mean it, and dealers aren't supposed to
sell to anyone but legit. "law enforcement"

2) that it is just a hook to get people to buy teh "more expensive"
ammunition.

Soooo... now to another question.  Say I aquire some high-quality
law enforcement only ammo.  Like that groovy +p+ 9mm.

I'm probably gonna want to stuff my gun with it, for carry
purposes.  Now, ignoring possibilities like damaging the gun, what
are the legal problems?

Would i be crucified by a jury if I used this?  (I know, there are
no certainties when you involve the legal system.) I'm not
looking for serious legal advice, I'm just curious.
If I could, I'd probably buy a box of this, because I'm pretty
sure that my H&K would take it just fine.  However, I am nervous
about the legal aspect.  (Ignoring, for now, the problem in
getting the ammunition...)

--Seth
(Who ain't no way, ever, gonna shoot something called a "black talon"
out the end of his gun!)
From: weed@sweetpea.jsc.nasa.gov (daniel weed 283-4162)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Glocks and Lead Bullets?
Date: 17 Nov 92 18:32:18 GMT


--
In the on-going debate between Glocks and the rest of the world, I've
read a few posts indicating that one should NOT shoot LEAD bullets
in their GLock.  What are the facts in this?  Does it apply to the .45 ACP
also?  I am considering buying a .45 Glock, but I would be shooting
re-loaded lead SWCs or RN most of the time.

I assume firing handloads voids the Glock warrenty, but I'm also sure
that's true of any gun.  Any comments?

Thanks,

--  Dan


------------------------------------------------------------------
Daniel Weed                             weed@sweetpea.jsc.nasa.gov
McDonnell Douglas Space Systems Co. - Houston
          "My comments are my own, not my employer's"
From: dstine@cisco.com (David Stine)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: fun things to shoot at
Date: 17 Nov 92 18:31:07 GMT
Organization: Ain't got none o' that here....

In article <13NOV199222000851@csa3.lbl.gov> jtchew@csa3.lbl.gov (Ad absurdum per aspera) writes:
#Don't shoot or otherwise violently break picture tubes.  Here's why.

Damn sound advice. And it is very true for fluorescent tubes.

#I've always thought it would be fun to shoot an old bald tire
#that would still hold air.  Or even a tire with no rim -- sat
#it upright and try to get it rolling.  Gotta try that one someday.
#At least you'd render the tire carcass incapable of supporting
#mosquito larvae if you punched a lot of holes in it.

I actually did that on a range as a kid; tire, no rim. The results were very
disappointing; the bullets just zipped right through and the tire just sat
there. I was shooting a .22 and my friend was shooting a M1 Garand. 

Now, tire rims, (sans tire) in a pile of dust on a hillside at 100+ meters,
hit 'em with a high-power (.308, .30/30, .30-06) are kinda fun. Sort of the
Manly Man[tm] version of plinking a beercan with a .22; the rim will jump
about a nice dance. Hence the pile of dust. A reasonable .30 round
will penetrate at least one of the walls of the rim.

dsa
From: abrant@BRL.MIL (PFD|PPB)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Recoil Formula
Date: 20 Nov 92 22:31:57 GMT

# So, using the formula:
#
#    Recoil =  ((Powder Wgt + Bullet Wgt) x Powder Wgt) / (80 x Gun Wgt)

This seems to be neglecting the most important factor, velocity.
There are three important factor that contribute to recoil:
1) energy used to accelerate the bullet, 2) energy used to move
the powder and gasses down the bore, 3) energy from the 
gasses leaving the bore after bullet exit.
From: vojak@makalu.stortek.com (Bill Vojak)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Taurus Service Center
Date: 17 Nov 92 18:32:03 GMT
Organization: Storage Technology Corp.


About 2 weeks ago, (Nov 3rd to be exact), I sent a broken transfer
bar to Taurus in FL for replacement.  This Saturday, (Nov 14th)
a packet arrived in the mail with a new bar in it.  11 days turn around
time!  My Taurus .22 revolver is ~3+ years old and has had tens of
thousands of rounds put through it.  This is the first problem it ever
had.  Others on the net have complained about poor turn around time 
from Taurus when they sent their guns in.  I guess the moral is, If
you can just send the part in for replacement instead of the entire
gun, you can save 6-8 weeks in down time.

                                Bill Vojak
                                Bill_Vojak@stortek.com
                                NRA, ILA, CFC

------------------------------------------
Anti-Gun President, Anti-Gun Congress,
Better buy what you want BEFORE Dec 31.
----------------------------------------
From: booth@mdd.comm.mot.com (Greg Booth)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: RUGER P90DC INFO. NEEDED
Date: 19 Nov 92 15:08:40 GMT
Organization: Motorola - Mobile Data Division; Richmond, BC

In <9211171544.AA22542@rutgers.edu> amirza@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Anmar Caves) writes:

#Dislikes:
#Lousy trigger, really lousy, like out of the box you it felt like
#there was grit in the workings, this was true for all the P90DCs I
#tried.

#Inconsistant shooting.  I'm not a great shot, but with my 1911 I can
#put 9 out of 9 on an 8 1/2" X 11" piece of paper at 30 feet, with my
#Taurus I can do 16 out of 16.  With the Ruger I was lucky to hit the
#damn paper.  Plus mine shot *way* low.  Like about 8" at 30 feet, no
#matter what I fed it.


#Likes:
#It is DA/SA.
#The decocker was nice, but I'm very used to letting the hammer down on
#all my guns, so it was kinda different to use a decocker.
#It fed very reliably, not a single jam, even with reloads.  No
#problems with HPs. 

Gee, you just described my P89DC 9mm. I am planning on sending it
to the warranty service center with a note saying '18 inch groups
at 25 yards?!?! come on, you can do better than that'.

I don't think Ruger has figured out how to build "nice" centrefire
autoloading pistols yet.


-- 
Greg Booth BSc                    |     /_____________________________
BCAA-PCDHF-BCWF-NFA-NRA-IPSC-BCFSS|@====|_____________________________>
Motorola Mobile Data Division     |     \
booth@mdd.comm.mot.com cgb003@email.comm.mot.com
From: nahst6+@pitt.edu (Nathan A Horstman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: How to measure barrel length on semiauto
Date: 19 Nov 92 15:12:34 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh


How are barrels on semi-autos measured?  I have one that is supposed to be
4.25 inches but stripped looks more like 2.  Does it include the chamber?
Or is it some measure of the external gun instead of the actual internal
barrel length?

How about revolvers?

Thanks,

Nathan 
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<-->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>       G  O       H  O  U  S  T  O  N 
<<      Nathan A. Horstman      >>  OOOO  IIIIII LL     EEEEEE RRRRR   SSSS  ||
<<   University of Pittsburgh   >> OO  OO   II   LL     EE     RR  RR SS     ||
<< in%"nahst6@vms.cis.pitt.edu" >> OO  OO   II   LL     EEEE   RRRRR   SSSS  ||
<<      nahst6+@pitt.edu        >> OO  OO   II   LL     EE     RR RR      SS ||
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<-->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  OOOO  IIIIII LLLLLL EEEEEE RR  RR  SSSS  oo
From: btree!hale@UCSD.EDU (Bob Hale)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: What to buy....
Date: 20 Nov 92 22:33:02 GMT
Organization: Brooktree Corporation, San Diego

In article <1992Nov19.133422.11770@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> bobd@marune.acs.ohio-state.edu (Bob DeBula) writes:
#I expect prices at the next show I go to (at the end of November)
#to be substantially higher than they were at the last show 2 months 
#ago. Still, I saw *only* Belgian FALs (i.e. $1600+) and only
#*one* FNC at the last OGCA show (fairly big show) I attended.
#(I am discounting the "sporterized" LARs I saw).
#The only SAR I saw all day was a factory cut-away SAR-48
#which I'm probably going to regret not buying (these puppies
#tend to get valuable over time) for ~$700.

I had been expecting post-election price increases but at the
Pomona gun show in mid-November I didn't see any evidence of
significant price increases.  In fact, I didn't see any
indications of shortages or anything else that I might have
expected after the election.  Maybe the shortages won't develop
until inauguration day??

On a loosely related note, there was a booth there selling Wenol
so I bought some.  They were quite insistent that I take one of
their cards so that I could buy some more when I run out.  The
card says:

	1410 West Winton Ave.
	Hayward, CA  94545
	510-732-5700
	510-786-2303 FAX

An interesting claim in their literature is that Wenol is a
*non*abrasive polish.  I am very curious how you polish something
without using abrasives.  I'll have to try it on some test objects.

Bob Hale                                      ...!ucsd!btree!hale
...!btree!hale@ucsd.edu                       ...!ucsd!btree!hale@uunet.uu.net
From: fist@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Richard Pierson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: M-16,AR-15 Life
Date: 16 Nov 92 16:46:37 GMT
Article-I.D.: porthos.1992Nov16.143056.20897
Organization: Bell Communications Research (Bellcore)

My M-16A1 which I have had assigned to me for the past
14 years, and was moved from my home unit to our new 
detachment location, has had over 30k rounds put through 
it and have had no problems other than a broken fore 
stock which has been replaced with a new A2 round one, 
[old ones got run over while I was cleaning the weapon
and they were off on my field jacket on the ground]
the firing was done over a 14 year period and no internal 
parts have been replaced except for the pin that holds 
the recoil buffer in place. It still shoots the same 25
meter group it shot when I first got it issued and other
than a somewhat dinged up back stock, still looks pretty
good [dime size 3 shot group at 25 meters from sandbagged
foxhole position]. Now that we have the new night scopes
for them I am anxious to get out and see what it will do
with a reticule vs that damn post n circle its got. All we
have to do is convince the battallion staff the teams need
them more than they do.
-- 
##########################################################
There are only two types of ships in the NAVY; SUBMARINES 
                 and TARGETS !!!
#1/XS1100LH	#2/10/10/92
Richard Pierson E06584 vnet: [908] 699-6063
Internet: fist@iscp.bellcore.com,|| UUNET:uunet!bcr!fist  
#include <std.disclaimer> My opinions are my own!!!
I Don't shop in malls, I by my jeans, jackets and ammo
in the same store.
From: hacker@coos.dartmouth.edu (Fred L. Hacker)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: IPSC question
Date: 23 Nov 92 21:40:02 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

I have seen references to IPSC both here and in gun magazines.  Could someone please tell me what it is.  It sounds like it might be similar to the PPC my father used to compete in but that was done only with revolvers and generally wasnt open to civilians.  It sounds like IPSC allows automatics.  If IPSC is similar to PPC and is open to civilians I would be very interested in getting involved in it.  I would really appreciate it if someone could e-mail me the rules and any general information on IPSC (e.g

 weapons allowed, course of fire, etc.).  I would also appreciate it if anyone could tell me where I might be able to write to find out about IPSC competition in my area (Hanover-Lebanon NH).  Thank you very much for your help.

Fred
From: fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Glocks and Lead Bullets?
Date: 23 Nov 92 14:24:46 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder

In article <1992Nov22.043754.5571@cbnews.cb.att.com> lvc@cbvox1.att.com (Lawrence V Cipriani) writes:
##>I believe the problem above is due to the polygonal barrel in 9mm Glocks.
##>The big-bore Glocks do not have a polygonal barrel ...

#...I double checked with a Glock 21 owner, he took
#a look and stated it does have a polygonal barrel as well.

What, exactly, does a "polygonal" barrel mean? I assume from the context
that it refers in some way to the rifling. However, looking at my 
Glock's barrel, I don't notice any property of the rifling I'd refer to
in this way...

                                                    Frank Crary
                                                    CU Boulder
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Weapon for defense from cows
Date: 22 Nov 92 03:18:05 GMT
Organization: Western Washington University

todd@reed.edu (Todd Ellner) writes:

#1) A 12-gauge pump shotgun loaded with slugs and kept with the tools wherever
	That oughtta do it.   The BRI sabbots ought to penetrate more
	reliably than the Fosters or Brennekes.
#3) 10% oleoresin capscin (sp?) spray. Pro: Lite-n-EZ to carry. Requires no
	Maybe, maybe not. 
#4)  A good .44 magnum. One informant swears by the single action Rugers.
	I seriously doubt the value of this one.
#5) Various smaller caliber handguns. I'm not sure I want to just hurt over
	Baaad idea, imo.
JD
From: klofgren@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Bart Man )
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Shooting Qualification
Date: 22 Nov 92 03:17:59 GMT


I am interested in finding out what score??? one would 
have to get in order to qualify for a handgun?  I am
not exactly talking about competition shooting, or combat
quals, but for example on a standard NRA bullseye type 
target, how many rounds must be placed in what rings, at
what distance to *qualify*.  I guess the bottom line is...
what level do I have to be shooting at to consider myself
to be *good* or *bad*???

Send e-mail in addition to post to: klofgren@sdcc13.ucsd.edu

Brent
From: pauly@netcom.com (Paul Yoshimune)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Ramline Sig Magazines...
Date: 19 Nov 92 15:13:19 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

Does anyone have any experience, good or bad, with Ramline's 18-round (!) Sig
P226 magazines?  I was considering ordering a couple, but would like to know
what their reputation for reliability/durability is.  Thanks in advance...

-- 
DVC,
  Paul

Paul Yoshimune
pauly@netcom.com
From: fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Rifle in Defense (.308 penetration?!)
Date: 21 Nov 92 23:35:03 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder

In article <01GRDPWV8U2O9LVHCQ@HUSC3.HARVARD.EDU> zeleny@husc10.harvard.edu (Michael Zeleny) writes:
##Beg your pardon, but I'm pretty sure I have fired bbs and pellets
##through drywall.  I know I have fired .357 mags through 2x4s (the
##4" dimension).  Please test that .308 on some drywall at the
##range and let us know. 

#I may be in error regarding the name of the plaster-like substance
#which separates the rooms in a typical urban dwelling, but my 180gr
#softnose bullets certainly expand and stay therein, provided that the
#walls are of a seemingly standard double thickness.  An FMJ slug, on
#the other hand, will go right through, but stops in a brick wall.

This depends greatly on the age of the building: Standard interior walls
in modern, American buildings will _not_ stop a bullet (especially a .308).
However, you are posting from New England, and I believe older buildings
are fairly common. A pre-1950s building might use solid wood (of significant
thickness) for interior walls. _That_ might stop a soft or hollow point
bullet.

                                            Frank Crary
                                            CU Boulder
From: ccrafton@daewoo.math.indiana.edu (c.crafton)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: (null)
Date: 22 Nov 92 03:17:56 GMT


In response to Franks reccomendation to starting our own "Consumer Reports"
on guns: I think its a good idea. Here are some reccomendations:

Start the thread with the model number and "specs" for each model.
Also include a blank Consumer questionaire for easy followups.        
Example:

Model: Ruger Mark II
Bbl: 5.5"
Finish: Stainless
Mag. Cap: 10
Weight:
Action: semi-auto
Options: bull barrel
Caliber: .22LR
Purpose: target, sport, plinking, hunting, defense, survival etc

Consumer Question section:

Rate the following from 1 (worst) to 10 (best):

Performance:
Accuracy:
Reliability:
Durability:
Finish:
Value:
Workmanship:
Overall Satisfaction:
Ease of Maintenance:
Reccomendation Rating:

etc etc

 Also, a deadline on followups can be enacted if desired.

 I would reccomend a "base number" of responses for the "composit" of at
 least 10 followups.

 We could start by making a list of "must-have" guns to start on.
 Such as:

 Sig Sauer P226, Glock 17/19, SKS, Ruger 10/22, Ruger Mark II, AR-15,
 Remington 870, PPK/S, P85, P90, Pt92, 1911, PSS, etc etc etc etc etc etc...

 Maybe post a thread by monday asking for reccomendations of which firearms
 should be "reviewed". Tally the responses after a week or so and begin...

 Whataya think?
From: sfaber@ihlpb.att.com (Steven R Faber)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: AR15 Assembly / NESARD Kits
Date: 19 Nov 92 15:11:55 GMT
Organization: AT&T

#From article <1992Nov17.172035.28449@ra.msstate.edu>, by dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu (Donald R. Newcomb):

# Christopher,
#   My understanding would tell me that the above sentence is a non-sequitur
# and may be a typo. A new rifle should accept (bolt closes on) a "go" gauge.
# A used rifle may accept a "no-go" gauge. Neither should accept a "field"
# gauge. The gauge lengths increase from "go" -> "no-go" -> "field". If you
# are going shopping and can only take one gauge, make it the "field".

Agreed, however, there is some more on this I found out recently.
The latest military manuals and gauges use only one gauge 1.473" long.
If the bolt closes on this it is rejected.  Commercial gauges like
Forster offer the go, no-go, field, and "absolute max" gauges.
The current military gauge length corresponds to the "absolute max"
Forster gauge.  Field is 1.470".  

Steve
From: basiji@stein.u.washington.edu (David Basiji)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Right-handed/left-eyed: how to retrain eyes?
Date: 16 Nov 92 23:09:27 GMT
Organization: University of Washington


I am right handed but left-eye dominant.
I currently have three options with my right-handed rifle:
	1) shoot left handed and struggle to work the action
	2) shoot right handed with my left eye closed
	3) shoot right handed with both eyes open.
	
Obviously, option 3 is preferred.  Hence, I am trying to retrain my
eyes so that I will not be limited to the left-eye perspective.  I am
putting a patch over my left eye for short periods of time (one hour)
once or twice each day but have only been doing this for a few days.
It is clear to me that my right eye is lazy since it's difficult to 
focus and see clearly (there are some really interesting physiological
effects when you can only see out of the subordinate eye), hence, I'm 
trying not to overwork it until the focussing muscles are stronger.

Has anyone done this successfully?  Am I going about it wrong? Any tips?

Thanks,
David Basiji
UW Bioengineering
From: jheath@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Jim Heath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Glock accurization?
Date: 19 Nov 92 21:04:25 GMT
Organization: Center for Environmental and Regulatory Information Systems, Purdue University

Has the Glock been around long enough for anyone to "accurize"
them?  Does Barstow (sp?) make barrels for them?  Are there other
accesories available?  

Has anyone used one of the 17L (I think that's the designation,
the 9mm "target" version)?
-- 
"Land of song, said the warrior bard,           Jim Heath
Though all the world betrays thee.
One sword, at least, thy rights shall guard, (The Minstrel Boy)
One faithful harp will praise thee."         (Thomas Moore)
From: zwbm07@hou.amoco.com (Walter Moore)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Gun Control Laws -Texas
Date: 16 Nov 92 16:46:28 GMT
Article-I.D.: hou.1992Nov16.132242.11456
Organization: Amoco

NOTE this information is based on my memory of a book.  I am not a lawyer or
peace officer.  Please consult a lawyer before using any of this
information.

According to what I recall from my reading (email me for the title, I can't
recall it right now), In the state of TEXAS:  it is illegal to carry a
HANDGUN except in the following cases:

1) you are going to or from a gunshop or shooting range;

2) you are travelling -- which is defined as going some distance and usually
involves an overnight stay somewhere (once you reach your destination you
are no longer travelluing).

3) you have some need of it in you job.

In general, it is just as illegal to carry a handgun loaded as it is to
carry one unloaded; it is just as illegal to carry a handgun concealed as it
is to carry one fully visible.

It is a misdemeanor to carry in situations other than those mentioned above,
EXCEPT when you carry a weapon into a place licensed by the state to serve
(or sell, I can't recall) alcohol -- in which case it is a felony.  


--- TTYL & TANSTAAFL ---------------- Walter Moore Internet:
wbmoore@hou.amoco.com

..SCUBA divers do it with depth...blub...blub...blub...
From: bbx!bbxrbk!russ@unmvax.cs.unm.edu (Russ Kepler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: What to buy....
Date: 17 Nov 92 13:14:54 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization

In article <1992Nov14.043630.21903@bbxrbk> bbx!bbxrbk!russ@unmvax.cs.unm.edu (Russ Kepler) writes:
#[MODERATOR:  I think this is an interesting thread for us, so long
#as we keep away from discussion of the merits of bans.  Perhaps we
#could forward our speculations, and also suggestions about what is
#good to sock in for our grandkids' use, to Russ, and then ask him
#to post a summary?  Thankee ]

I'll be glad to post a summary including text from mail that I
receive.  I'll strip names from those who ask or don't say, and
include complete messages from those that want inclusion.  I've gotten
a few responses, but none suggesting any new toys to buy and put up.

One suggestion I did get was to buy a case of SKSs and several cases of
ammo.  I suspect that I'd clean out the local suppliers of 6" PVC and
endcaps were I to follow that path.  That's not what I'm looking for,
I'm more in the mode of buying something that would last got years and
maybe be transferable to my grandkids.

I'm looking for nifty toys likely to increase in price in the event of
an import ban - suggestions might include the H&K SR9 (the redesigned
and importable HK91 replacement), the Galil Sporter, Calico, etc.  I
expect to be able to buy shotguns and handguns and bolt action or
lever action sporting rifles for some time, and would like to put away
some of those I don't expect to see on the dealer's shelves late next
year.

-- 
Russ Kepler, posting from home   bbxrbk!russ@bbx.basis.com
Will hack unix for food