HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mike@inform.co.nz (Mike Williams)
Subject: Re: Manipulation of Referendum Results
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 03:58:26 GMT
	<BvGyF7.Iut@comp.vuw.ac.nz> <BvGyLn.Iz9@comp.vuw.ac.nz>
Organization: InForm Group, Wellington, New Zealand.


>>> "Andy" == andy@comp.vuw.ac.nz (Andy Bond) writes:

Andy> Of course I voted STV like the rest of you people ... right?  RIGHT!

  In a perfect world, STV would be the way to go.  I see-sawed between STV
  and MMP for a while, until I heard a radio interview on Sept 18th, with
  various "people on the street" being asked about the referendum.  There
  were one or two supporters of STV, and quite a number of people who were
  planning to vote for MMP ("'cos that's what the Royal Commission
  recommended"), but the majority of those interviewed "didn't know" or
  "couldn't care less".  One man got quite angry and said that he had "more
  important things to think about". 
  
  The point being ... if these people cannot manage to make a choice
  between three or four electoral systems, how can they be expected to make
  a choice from amongst 10 or so local candidates under STV??  MMP, while
  not allowing the discerning voter to exclude certain candidates from the
  party lists, DOES make it easier for Jill & Joe Bloggs to cast their
  votes.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------
        Mike Williams, InForm Group Ltd., Wellington, New Zealand.
   Email: mike@inform.co.nz   Phone: 64 4 472 0996   Fax: 64 4 473 2407
Newsgroups: nz.general
Subject: Re: nz.waffle??
From: jonc@status.gen.nz (Jon Clarke)
Date: Wed, 07 Oct 92 01:15:19 GMT
Organization: The Z*NET Global News Gateway. Parnell New Zealand

dogbowl@dogbox.acme.gen.nz writes:

> Just my $2.50 (2c inflation adjusted from the mid-1960's :)
 
 Do you really have a life outside of posting to nz.general ?
 
 
 

                                                  _
 Jon Clarke                                     o( )       
 jonc@status.gen.nz                            /  /\        GE: J.CLARKE6
 The Z*NET Global News Gateway in Auckland New Zealand      HSBC NZM  EBD
Newsgroups: nz.general
Subject: Re: Bogus newsgroups 
From: richard@nacjack.gen.nz (Richard Vowles)
Date: 3 Oct 92 13:03:22 GMT
Organization: Malleus Maleficarum - Nil Mortifi Sine Lucre


>Unfortunately, the discussion only ended up in comp.sys.atari,
>alt.config and nz general, when it should have been posted in
>the news.announce.newgroups. Therefore any discusion about it
>was necessarily limited to a small audience.

It only needs to be posted to alt.config if it is to be created in the
alt.* hierarchy. I remember seeing an RDF (rather than an RFD :-) before
he did this, but I don't think I read it...

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Its not simply a question of getting hot, but how much heat you can take"

FIDONET: Richard Vowles 3:772/110.0         USENET: richard@nacjack.gen.nz
Packet Radio: ZL1UTF@ZL1AB.#11.AKL.NZL.OC   The Demi-Monde: 199:310/1
From: spt@waikato.ac.nz (Simon Travaglia)
Newsgroups: nz.general
Subject: Re: Winston Peters
Date: 2 Oct 92 07:07:17 +1200
Organization: Just behind the back of beyond

In article <1992Oct1.151945.1@csc.canterbury.ac.nz>, psyc285@csc.canterbury.ac.nz writes:
> a member of his electorate, IUd be ticked off that the National Party was
> reducing his powers in this way.
> 
Ah, it's all a setup.  Wait till the elections for the real moving around.

       ________-----------*  >FSssSS!<
  ,__./  This trailer will almost certainly self-destruct in a  given,  finite
 /    \  amount of time.   It  contains  a secret message disguised as drivel.
| BOMB | Disclaimer:  Yep.  I should have known better.
 \____/  Simon Travaglia, spt@waikato.ac.nz  Ph: 064-7-838-4008  Fax: 838-4066
         University of Waikato, Private Bag 3105, Hamilton, New Zealand.

A student who changes the course of history is probably taking an exam.
Newsgroups: nz.general,nz.archives
From: K.Spagnolo@massey.ac.nz (Ken Spagnolo)
Subject: 386bsd: X386 binary distibution at Massey
Organization: Massey University, Palmerston North, New Zealand
X-Reader: NETNEWS/PC Version 2c
Distribution: aus
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 20:22:06 GMT

For those interested in 386BSD, I have ftp'ed the compiled X386 port.
It is currently available from 'ftpserver.massey.ac.nz 130.123.1.7'
but that may not be the case for long as it takes up a lot of space.
i.e. 58 files totalling 30Mb.  I will leave it available as long as I
can.

ftpserver.massey.ac.nz:/pub/386bsd/X386

-- 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Glen Eustace, Systems Software Manager | EMail: G.Eustace@massey.ac.nz
Computing Services, Massey University, | Phone:         +64 6 350 5161
Palmerston North,  New Zealand. GMT-12 | Fax:           +64 6 350 5607

-- 
Ken Spagnolo - Ph: +64-6-350-5160
Systems Programmer, Network Support, Usenet Admin, etc.
Newsgroups: nz.general
From: psyc285@csc.canterbury.ac.nz
Subject: Winston Peters
Organization: University of Canterbury, Christchurch, New Zealand
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 03:19:45 GMT

So, exactly where does this decision to oust Winston Peters leave the National
Party. Surely it means they have turned their backs on the people of his
Tauranga electorate, who endorse his representation and expect him to remain a
part of caucus.

I donUt endorse everything he says, but IUd defend his right to say it. If I
was
a member of his electorate, IUd be ticked off that the National Party was
reducing his powers in this way.

Suprised.
From: icousins@lyncus.actrix.gen.nz (Ian Cousins)
Newsgroups: nz.general
Subject: Re: nz.waffle?? (was Re: Hello....hello...is anybody home)
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 92 17:18:21 GMT
Organization: Lyncus Mansion, Wellington, New Zealand. +64 4 3835262

jonc@status.gen.nz (Jon Clarke) writes:

> kilroy@acme.gen.nz (earthbound misfit, I) writes:
> > 
> > As for it using "the local network setup", guess what: you fucked up. I
>  
>  Craig,
>  
>  As the system administrator of your site I am a little upset to see not
>  once but twice in two different messages use of this sort of language.
>  As sysadmin YOU should KNOW better than to do this. 
[Tirade deleted]
>  
>  This is my two cents worth.
> 
 Which is 2c more than it is worth.....


Ian Cousins              \\    //  Email: icousins@lyncus.actrix.gen.nz
PO Box 12057               \\//           Ian.Cousins@actrix.gen.nz
Thorndon PO                //\\    GEnie: I.COUSINS
Wellington, New Zealand  //    \\  Phone  +64 4 383 5262 (Voice GMT +12)
Newsgroups: nz.general
From: kilroy@acme.gen.nz (earthbound misfit, I)
Subject: Re: Manipulation of Referendum Results
Date: Fri, 02 Oct 92 05:42:16 GMT
Organization: ACME BBS - Public Access Usenet, Palmerston North, New Zealand

Someone else will probably beat me to this one, but I'm having so much *fun*
in this newsgroup at the moment.

chris@toru.isor.vuw.ac.nz (Chris Johnston) writes:

> I noticed the following signoff in a recent article......
>
> |> -- 
> |> Steve Withers - Wellington, New Zealand | On Sept. 19th, 88% of NZ voters opted
> |> Steve.Withers@bbs.actrix.gen.nz         | for proportional representation. It
> |> withers_s@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz            | looks like we may get a more  
> |> **** Happy user of OS/2 v2!! ****       | democratic system "real soon now".
> 
> WRONG, WRONG, WRONG !!!!!!
> 
> I do believe that 88% of the 48% who voted is 42% of the VOTING population
> (NOT the NZ pop)!

BZZTT, Wrong Answer. He said "88% of NZ voters". Taking that to mean "people
who voted" doesn't seem to unreasonable to me.

> Has anyone seen the summary results for the referendum? It is interesting
> to note that those in the rich urban seats tended to vote for STV as the
> preferred alternative. (I also voted for this).

So what you're implying here is that you're a rich urban seat?

Oh, BTW: DANGER WILL ROBINSON!! Gross Generalization Warning at 6 O'clock!!
Batten down all hatches!

> As a personal observation I have noticed amongst the people I know that the
> people who voted for STV were the ones that like to cast a critical and
> thoughtful eye over a problem before making a decision. Those that voted
> for MMP were the ones who stated they just went with the flow or hadn't
> looked into the other options very much. 

See.

						- k
-- 
Craig Harding            kilroy@acme.gen.nz             ACME BBS +64 6 3551342
"Jub'er lbh pnyyvat n obmb?"
Newsgroups: nz.general
Subject: Re: nz.waffle??
From: don@zl2tnm.gen.nz (Don Stokes)
Date: 4 Oct 92 08:18:31 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Wolery

dgd@kcbbs.gen.nz (David Dix) writes:
> Yes, requiring 25 people is not reasonable. Have you ever looked at who it is
> that writes messages in the nz newsgroups? So far this year I count no more
> than 51 different people posting messages in nz.general AND most of them 
> seem to be involved in either university computer depts or are computer
> staff in other organisations.

I've been keeping a few stats around here -- since the end of June, there 
have been approx 150 different posters.

From the nz.org.decus vote, I can tell you that a relatively small 
proportion of _readers_ actually post, but _may_ vote.  25 seems to me
to be a good number.

--
Don Stokes, ZL2TNM (DS555)                        don@zl2tnm.gen.nz (home)
Network Manager, Computing Services Centre            don@vuw.ac.nz (work)
Victoria University of Wellington, New Zealand              +64-4-495-5052
From: dogbowl@dogbox.acme.gen.nz
Newsgroups: nz.general
Subject: Re: nz.waffle??
Summary: alt.bbs.waffle is dead
Date: Mon, 05 Oct 92 06:34:21 +1200
Organization: The Dawghaus BBS, Palmerston North, New Zealand (+64 6 357 9245)

don@zl2tnm.gen.nz (Don Stokes) writes:

> I think the system works well enough.  What say someone actually _propose_
> nz.waffle as a new newsgroup, carry a vote and see if there really is any
> interest out there, rather than making totally unfounded claims about the
> unfairness of the system.  You never know -- there are a lot of people using
> Waffle out there, it may even pass.  Mind you, I don't really see the need;
> if you want a question answered, ask it in alt.bbs.waffle -- you've got a
> much bigger audience.

My feelings on the issue of nz.waffle run along the same lines - Why
duplicate a much bigger group with 1500-5000 sysops using it?

However, judging from the discussions that have been appearing in my
junkpile, I think a title of nz.sysop or nz.bbs.sysop would be more
appropriate.

(I should point out that alt.bbs.waffle was rmgrouped some time ago and
 was replaced with comp.bbs.waffle.)

Just my $2.50 (2c inflation adjusted from the mid-1960's :)


dogbowl@dogbox.acme.gen.nz
The Dawghaus BBS, Palmerston North, New Zealand (+64 6 357 9245)


Xref: sparky nz.general:1315 nz.netstatus:226
Newsgroups: nz.general,nz.netstatus
Subject: Re: nz.waffle?? (was Re: Hello....hello...is anybody home)
From: jonc@status.gen.nz (Jon Clarke)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 21:29:29 GMT
Organization: The Z*NET Global News Gateway. Parnell New Zealand

kilroy@acme.gen.nz (earthbound misfit, I) writes:

> Can we please try and refrain from just creating nz.* groups on an ad-hoc
> basis? Note that you're doing your users a disservice by treating this
> newsgroup as valid because it probably appears (outside of junk) at about
> 2 sites nationwide (and is a nz.waffle newsgroup really necessary
> anyway?).
 Craig, as system administrator of your site why do you not just poll
 the site concerned?
 
 Sounds simple to me.

                                                  _
 Jon Clarke                                     o( )       
 jonc@status.gen.nz                            /  /\        GE: J.CLARKE6
 The Z*NET Global News Gateway in Auckland New Zealand      HSBC NZM  EBD
From: zoltar@glasgow.amigans.gen.nz (Grant Thoms)
Newsgroups: nz.general
Subject: Copyright Laws in New Zealand
Date: 26 Sep 92 16:09:52 PST
Distribution: world
Organization: The .SIG research Department, General Enquiries Office

Hello,

My friend has written several Film scripts which he is making, and 
is curious as to how the copyright Laws work here in New Zealand.

 How does one go about placing copyright on scripts? we think
that you can just place Copyright on them yourself, but want to 
check out if this is so. If there is anyone studying law or practicing
law who can send me some information, and I will pass it on.

Cheers,
Grant



-- 
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
        Grant Thoms (Zoltar) Co-Sysop of `Silent Imperium' BBS
  //                Zoltar@Glasgow.Amigans.Gen.NZ
\X/                             ----
         Standard Quote: `Insert $10 for the next 0.5 seconds'
                *** Opinions expressed are my own ***
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
Newsgroups: nz.general
Subject: Re: Manipulation of Referendum Results
From: hammett@sbsu1.aukuni.ac.nz (Tim Hammett)
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 01:27:36 GMT
Organization: University of Auckland, New Zealand.

chris@toru.isor.vuw.ac.nz (Chris Johnston) writes:
>I do believe that 88% of the 48% who voted is 42% of the VOTING population (NOT
>the NZ pop)!

No, it's 42% of the people on the electoral roll, or 88% of the voting
population (people who don't choose to vote aren't part of the voting
population).

>Also consider that only 75% of 48% (ie 36%) voted for MMP. This means that the
>only other choice we are being offered was favoured by a minority of the voting
>population!!!

No it was favoured by 75% of the voting population. The question of
whether it was favoured by a majority of those on the electoral roll is
undefined, and it is incorrect to say that it was only favoured by a minority
(because there is insufficient information).

>[other crud deleted where poster accuses everyone who doesn't agree
>with him of being stupid]

Rather a piss poor showing from someone who harks from an "Institute of
Statistics and Operations Research".

--
Tim Hammett, Botany Dept, Auckland University, New Zealand.
t.hammett@aukuni.ac.nz   Phone: +64-9-373-7599 x8365    FAX: +64-9-373-7416
Newsgroups: nz.general
From: kilroy@acme.gen.nz (earthbound misfit, I)
Subject: Re: Copyright Laws in New Zealand
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 92 06:12:10 GMT
Organization: ACME BBS - Public Access Usenet, Palmerston North, New Zealand

thetroll@rata.vuw.ac.nz (The Troll) writes:

> I certainly wouldn't drive over a bridge designed by a USENET discussion.
> Would you? 

One for the quotes file!

						- k
-- 
Craig Harding            kilroy@acme.gen.nz             ACME BBS +64 6 3551342
"Jub'er lbh pnyyvat n obmb"
Newsgroups: nz.general
From: mark@comp.vuw.ac.nz (Mark Davies)
Subject: Re: nz.waffle
Organization: Dept. of Comp. Sci., Victoria Uni. of Wellington, New Zealand.
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 02:11:39 GMT


In article <10092279.19291.12810@kcbbs.gen.nz>, dgd@kcbbs.gen.nz (David Dix) writes:
|> 			 Stupid or non-sensical or non-working rules should be
|> reviewed and changed and the 25 vote rule has proven itself to be more than
|> useless. Perhaps if we had a more reasonable and workable set of NewZnet
|> rules or conventions when creating new nz newsgroups we would not need to
|> have lots of little parochial "backwoods nets".

Suggest some.

mark
Newsgroups: nz.general
From: gnat@kauri.vuw.ac.nz (Nathan Torkington)
Subject: Re: nz.waffle?? (was Re: Hello....hello...is anybody home)
X-Disclaimer: I speak as an individual.  Don't bring Victoria University into this.
Organization: Contract to CSC, Victoria Uni, Wellington, New Zealand
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 02:00:22 GMT

jonc@status.gen.nz (Jon Clarke) writes:

> > Nat. :-) :-)
> Nathan,
> Is this the same nathan that is the archiver.

No it isn't.  He signs his messages with

Nat.
(gnat@kauri.vuw.ac.nz -- Nathan Torkington -- is the electronic text and
 MS-DOS archivist for the Victoria University of Wellington, New Zealand)

the Nat that has a sense of humour and posts to nz.general signs his
messages

Nat.

and doesn't claim affiliation with Vic Uni.  What I post under my own
name is in no way intended to be representative of Vic.  Indeed, they
don't even pay me to share their opinions.  I archive because I
believe in the service, and I post because I don't suffer prats
gladly.

> May I suggest that during this past month the tone of this news group 
> has lowered itself past that of alt.evil .

Indeed you may, and you may go so far as to put your head up your
bottom and sneeze.  Nobody here will stop you (just queue to flame you
:-).

> So much for the so called net.polite and net.wise UNI users in this 
> newsgroup.

<laugh>.  Sure.  Because I go to university, I must suffer fools
gladly.  Actually, I've been about the only Uni poster here.  The
other partakers of this gorgeous discussion were Craig Harding (from
acme.gen), Richard thingie (from a .gen site), and yourself (from
.gen).  If you desire to broadcast your ignorance to the world
(SuperStupidMan!  Can leap to conclusions in a single bound!), please
leave Vic out of it.

> I can imagine you all using this in every day speach

Jon has a rather interesting view of university life:

"Oh f*ckin' yeah, let's get this f*ckin' newsfeed goin', eh?"
"F*ck yeah, let's ship that sh!t out, f*ck what?"
"Eh?  F*ck?"
"F*ck f*ck f*ck f*ck."
"F*ck!?"
"F*ck no."

This probably comes from not having graduated Kindergarten.

> should the NZ education system turn out such horrible delights in
> public I shudder to think to your department in reality should you
> take this tone. In fact I for one resent such language and as a 
> tax payer of your ORGANISATION take offence to it very DEEPLY!

I have a little trouble understanding this paragraph.  Not surprising,
really as I only understand English and not Jon-speak-gibberese.

Ooops.  This is a flamewar isn't it?  Well, you have your next
inevitably unintelligable spray of lip-froth and then we'll let it
die, shall we?

> (oh dear I took the bait....... but sorry I mean it!)

Flame wars are *such fun*! :-)

Nat
(net.pit-pup)
Newsgroups: nz.general
Subject: Re: Bogus newsgroups 
From: jonc@status.gen.nz (Jon Clarke)
Date: Fri, 02 Oct 92 07:29:03 GMT
Organization: The Z*NET Global News Gateway. Parnell New Zealand

kilroy@acme.gen.nz (earthbound misfit, I) writes:

> >  
> >  Please read  news.newsgroups FAQ on the ALT groups and then maybe 
> >  get off your high horse and do something a litle constructive instead
> >  on jumping on the band wagon ie suggesting that maybe only a few
> >  messages in the SAMPLE news feed which has not had a control create
> >  sent (thus just a SAMPLE news group as per the FAQ) instead of the
> >  amount that has been been sent to sample news group.
> 
> Jon, when you can construct a paragraph (or two) with grammar that is
> *sufficiently* correct that other people can actually understand it, I'll try
> and make some sort of appropriate reply.
> 
 Craig,
 
 Should your reply not read, "Ok so I goofed, sorry". Instead of the
 dribble above.

                                                  _
 Jon Clarke                                     o( )       
 jonc@status.gen.nz                            /  /\        GE: J.CLARKE6
 The Z*NET Global News Gateway in Auckland New Zealand      HSBC NZM  EBD
Newsgroups: nz.general
Subject: Re: Copyright Laws in New Zealand
From: dgd@kcbbs.gen.nz (David Dix)
Date: 30 Sep 92 16:06:05 GMT
Organization: Kappa Crucis Unix BBS, Auckland, NZ

thetroll@rata.vuw.ac.nz writes in article <BvBBpC.4IM@comp.vuw.ac.nz>
>In article <RLVsRB2w165w@status.gen.nz> jonc@status.gen.nz (Jon Clarke) writes:
>>zoltar@glasgow.amigans.gen.nz (Grant Thoms) writes:
>>>  How does one go about placing copyright on scripts? we think
>>> that you can just place Copyright on them yourself, but want to 
>> 
>> Grant, I do not know if this applies directly to you but in the USA
>> all you have to is (c)1992 Mr A Writer and bingo it copyrighted.
>
>At the risk of appearing to have a vendetta against Mr clarke, I'd like to
>point out that the original poster explicity asked for people who were
>lawyers or were studying law to answer this question of copyright. 

He may have asked that but there are no netiquette rules anywhere that
state that anyone else cannot express their opinion on the subject.
In fact this is to be encouraged as there are too few people contributing
to these newsgroups and reading your message is more likely to discourage
potential contributors.
Perhaps if we had fewer self aspiring net.police and made an effort to
encourage other people to express their opinions we would have some
nz.newsgroups worth reading :-)

>Last time I looked neither computer programmers or bank managers fell into
>the above category. However there is the faint possibility that Mr Clarke
>is studying law on the side however if he is then I wouldn't hold much
>hope of a sucessful career in law based on his advice to date. 

Now that was not necessary. I suspect you have little real idea about Mr
Clarke. However, I accept that you disagree with some of his postings but
I would doubt you have shown any specific skills in the past (in this or
other newsgroups) that qualify you to make judgments on successful careers.

>As someone burdened ... etc... 

agreed, and although you say you are not a lawyer the rest of your message
was at least informative even though you ignored the original poster's
request for only lawyers or those studing law to answer :-)

>Asking for free
>advice from lawyers or law students is a dangerous thing to do. Indeed
>accepting free advice from *anyone* where money is at stake is a very bad
>practice. 

Not true. The quest for knowledge should mean asking as many people as
possible that may have an opinion on a subject. The more time one has to
listen to more people then the more information is available to form a
reasoned opinion. Obviously taking advice from people whose job is to
provide such advice (and charge $ for it) is a good way to get precise
and accurate information.
The foolish part is taking action based on the advise of just one person
or persons without expertise in the subject area.