From: dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu (Donald R. Newcomb)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Black-powder, Pyrodex or ?
Date: 8 Jan 93 22:21:39 GMT
Organization: University of Southern Mississippi

In article <93006.133115JCEHC@CUNYVM.BITNET> JCEHC%CUNYVM.BITNET@mitvma.mit.edu writes:
#In article <1993Jan5.040934.22120@ra.msstate.edu>, dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu
#(Donald R. Newcomb) says:
## Pyrodex is a smokeless bulk (volumetric)
##powder with some additive that causes it to smoke.

##It must be possible to make a black powder substitute that
##does not create rust. What is needed is for someone to market an
##old fashioned volumetric equivalent of black powder without the rust.

#   Pyrodex is not a smokeless powder (either nitrocellulose or nitroglycerin
#based).  According to an American Rifleman profile of the powder and Hodgon
#several years ago, its ingredients are not dissimilar to black powder.

I stand corrected. The article in question is "Pyrodex, the Blackpowder
Alternative" by Robert Hunnicutt in _The_American_Rifleman_, v 134, n 5
(May 1986) (p.40). Pyrodex is a mixture of fuels and oxidizers along the
same lines as blackpowder but with some characteristics that make it 
cleaner and easier to use than blackpowder. The article says that the 
contents are a secret. Hmmmm, I wonder, does anyone have a MSDS for
Pyrodex? I still think that modern chemistry should be able to reproduce
the interior ballistics of blackpowder without the corrosion.

#   Also, as far as I know, bulk smokeless powders were designed to be
#used in cartridge firearms,  primarily shotguns and were
#measured in equal volume to black powder.
#
#   It is GOSPEL among black powder shooter that only black powder
#or pyrodex is to be used in muzzleloaders (which includes cap and
#ball revolvers.

I wonder what the response would be on Usenet if you told the readership
that they had to do something because "the Bible says so"? Remember,
the instruction manual for my "Old Army" says "blackpowder only!". Not
a word about Pyrodex. Someone at Ruger, an engineer perhaps, came to
the conclusion that Pyrodex was an acceptable substitute for blackpowder
and informed me by letter. What is to say that other, better propelent
substitutes are not possible?

#Although I have read that in the late 19th century
#and early 20 th century that some muzzle loading rifle users were
#using semi-smokeless powders.  Like many of the posters on this thread,
#I would like to see more information as to why no smokeless loads
#can ever be used in muzzleloaders, and what happens when judicious
#loads of fast burning smokeless powders are used under experimental
#conditions (firing remotely).But until much more is known, if you
#want to fill the chambers of your cap and ball revolver with Bullseye
#or Unique, go ahead, its your hand, your face and your gun.  Just don't
#run out afterwards (after you get out of the hospital) and hire a lawyer
#to sue Hercules Powder Co., Ruger et al.
#
I recently  undertook  to test a few of my theories regarding the
use of smokeless powder in a Ruger Old Army revolver. If anyone
asks, all test shots were conducted  in a proof house by remote
control, in full anticipation of the destruction of both gun and
the structure that held it. Do not try to repeat these tests
your self. If you do and a spontaneous thermonuclear explosion
destroys the gun, you and all life within a radius of 3 km, don't
call me.

To make a long story short, if there is a smokeless powder that can
be used in this gun, it isn't Unique (tm). I weighed out a series
of charges beginning at 1.5 grains increasing by .25 grain  up to
4.5 grains. The charges were loaded both with and without a 
Dacron filler to hold  the charge against the flash hole. None
of the charges would even push the 150 grain ball out of the
barrel. The 4.5 grain charge pushed the ball within 2 inches
of the muzzle. With a 1.5 grain charge the ball lodged in the 
barrel throat. Many charges simply failed to fire and the ball had
to be pulled out of the cylinder. The gun incurred no damage
whatsoever. None of the caps split open and most had to be
pried off the nipple.

Back to the drawing board.

As for those who believe we should not be allowed to discuss this 
subject, I say:

"Well, I'll tell you: in all my days, I've never seen, heard, nor
smelled an issue that was so dangerous it couldn't be talked about.
Hell, Yes! I'm for debating anything." Stephen Hopkins
-- 

Donald R. Newcomb                * Life only admits two states: 
dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu        * growing and dying. So what,
newcomb@usmcp6.bitnet            * if I've put on a little weight?