HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: aaron@cse.ucsc.edu (Aaron Emigh)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Tae Kwon Do, getting a Black Belt, etc...
Date: 20 Nov 92 20:44:58 GMT
Organization: University of California, Santa Cruz (CE/CIS Boards)
NNTP-Posting-Host: oak.ucsc.edu

In article <Nov20.055635.8993@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> hurben@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Mike Hurben) writes:
[...]
>  I have been training in TKD here in Ft Collins for about a year now,
>and I am presently a red belt (white,yellow,green,blue,red,black).  

This sounds like pretty rapid advancement to me, but different schools
have different ideas of what ostensibly the same rank should mean.
There's nothing wrong with that, as long as it's understood.

[...]
>  I am very pleased with the progress I have made.  When I was a yellow
>or green belt, it was not uncommon for me to spend 12 - 15 hours/week
>training, but now I am lucky if I get 8.  My problem is as follows.  I
>have paid for my training with a 'lifetime' membership, which pays all
>of my tuition plus test fees, all the way up to Black Belt.

Danger, Will Robinson!  :-)  

>  This was considerably expensive.  I was originally planning on being
>in town for many years, but now it seems likely that I will have to
>move in May.  Needless to say, I want to get my money's worth

Uh oh!  What does it mean to "get your money's worth?"

[...]
>Now, I don't believe that there is any way that I can become 1st Dan in
>just 6 or 7 months ...  But I think that if I really push, I might make
>recommend.  Is this a reasonable goal?  

in my opinion, no, and it has nothing at all to do with the whole
question of what rank you "should" be able to get in that time.  You
(hopefully) didn't pay for a rank, but for training.  You have to leave
before you've gotten the training you feel you've paid for.  I'd say
that you should just train hard, and don't bother about the rank.

I'd also say that memberships paid up through a certain _rank_ create
bad incentives for schools, since they've essentially just sold a rank,
and it's then in their interests to promote their students to that rank
as fast as possible.  Ultimately (IMHO) this isn't good for the students
or for the school.

[...]
>I just don't want to waste my money.  Any thoughts?

Your money is spent, and it won't come back.  Whether or not it's been
"wasted" depends on how you look at it.  You still have training
available to you for a few months; take the best advantage of it that
you can, and don't worry about what wardrobe accessories (your belt)
you'll be taking with you when you leave.

>Kom-sahm-nee-da
>
>Mike Hurben

Aaron Emigh
aaron@iit.com
aaron@cse.ucsc.edu
From: ttk@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (the troglodyte killer)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Combat effectiveness?
Date: 24 Nov 1992 02:01:05 GMT
Organization: University of California; Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: ucscb.ucsc.edu


Once upon a time, robinson@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU said:
>In article <4254@unisql.UUCP> wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) writes:
>>In article <722248782snx@paragon.folly.welly.gen.nz> 
>>parry_r@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz writes:
>>>Judo I dismissed right away
>>Pfffttttt.
>
>What he said.
>
>>>Now, I want to know what you lot consider the single most effective
>>>fighting art.  
>>Track.  
>
>I second the motion.  I think emphasis on the 100-meter high hurdles in
>particular would provide excellent self-defense training.
 
     Actually, I must beg to differ ..  I've had some experience 
in using Track as self-defense (and in some people using Track as 
a self-defense defending themselves from me), and it actually 
doesn't work so well.  In high school I ran varsity 400m (PR of 
48.8 seconds, not *great* but it got me to states), and got most 
of my leg strength from my years in track before moving over to 
Shotokan..
 
     The problem is that the runner MUST be both faster AND more 
enduring than the chaser, or he will get caught.  If a 100m 
sprinter is being chased by a miler, he'll get caught after half a 
mile's worth of running.  If a miler's being chased by a 100m 
sprinter, the miler'll get caught in the first 50-80 yards.  
 
     It's similar to the argument regarding MA's vs street 
fighters.  If the runner has had superior training, he'll run 
faster and longer than the chaser, and "win" the dispute.  But if 
the chaser has had any Track training, the runner will get caught 
sooner or later, just as an experienced street fighter has an edge 
over a MAist on the street, given approx the same amount of 
experience/training.
 
     What I've found that works is making like you're a major 
coward, setting up to run like hell if your opponent starts making 
a move, and then when he starts his charge sinking back to a 
strong stance and putting everything you got into a crushing 
kick to some vital place..  I've never been in a fight where I 
felt my life was threatened, so the only time I've actually done 
this the kick was aimed at the solar plexus, but I'm fully 
prepared to aim at the knees, hips, or head if I feel the 
situation calls for it..
 
/---\ /---\ /=   /   ttk@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (the troglodyte killer)
  =     =    = /    "Home is a place that keeps the rain off my computer"
  =     =    = \     B0 f- t+ w- g k s- m+ r- p-(++)     ______
  =     =    =   \                      silence = death   \bi/
Hate is not a family value - Boycott Colorado              \/
From: mikel@Apple.COM (Mikel Evins)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: What are the purposes of Forms ?
Date: 23 Nov 92 21:04:32 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

In article <JON.92Nov23100817@zeus.med.utah.edu> jon@zeus.med.utah.edu (Jonathan Byrd) writes:
>In article <74530@apple.apple.COM> mikel@Apple.COM (Mikel Evins) writes:
>
>   For reference, Chinese fighting styles commonly include both
>   weapon and empty hand forms performed with a partner.
>
>Thanks for the input.  A question: Are these two-person forms named
>and studied in the same way as the single-person forms?

Yes, they are. There are also 'one-step sparring' drills, and
more elaborate multi-step staged sparring sequences, but 
these are not generally called forms. Two-person forms, like
solo forms, generally consist of anywhere from 30 or 40 to
upwards of 200-300 attacks and counters, performed in
various combinations (depending on the individual form) of
armed and unarmed.

My instructor made the point to me recently that it is important
to practice the two-person forms with more than one partner, so
as to avoid becoming too reliant on the particular movements
and interpretations of one person.

>I think that two-person forms are an excellent way of learning.  The
>down side of two-person forms is that you must find a good partner.
>Having a lazy partner turns two-person forms into an exercise in
>sloppy futility.  Having a partner with poor control, and/or an
>attitude can be downright dangerous.  But when you get a good partner,
>the intensity of two-person forms can be escalated almost to the level
>of a real match.

I quite agree. I have seen some very exciting performances of
the Xingyi two-man set by some of Sin The's senior students.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: glo@dvlseq.us.oracle.com (George Lo)
Subject: Re: THE MASTER
Organization: Oracle World HQ, Redwood Shores, California
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 00:33:50 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <farant.27j8@terapin.com> farant@terapin.com (Faran Thomason) writes:
>HAs anyone out there seen Tsui Hark's film The Master--with Jet Li ?? Ist any
>good ?? The few bit's I have seen seem out of place for a Hark film.

Do you mean "Wong Fei Hung 1,2"?  I guess people in America
would like to see part 1.  It was about fighting against
American invastion in the late 19th century.

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: yy@cbnews.cb.att.com (alan.j.lapenn)
Subject: Re: Humor, at NH tournament
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 11:34:49 GMT
Summary: lighten' up people, this is not about lineage!

In article <Bxuvts.60E@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>, rtang@sunee.uwaterloo.ca (The One Your Mother Warned You About!) writes:
> In article <BxtMy9.87n@max.physics.sunysb.edu> gene@max.physics.sunysb.edu (Eugene Tyurin) writes:
> >In article <1992Nov16.105548.7064@cbnews.cb.att.com> yy@cbnews.cb.att.com (alan.j.lapenn) writes:
> >>
> >>I was at the Northern Shaolin Karate Assn. tournament  in Concord, NH this 
> >                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >	Pardon me, guys, but how one can glue Shaolin to Karate?
> > From all my knowledge about MA history I can only think about this as
> > of a funny commercial name. Any experts out there?
> 
> Hmm, maybe he meant "shorin ryu karate" or "shorinji kempo" or
> THE DEADLY.......
> "North American Tai Shaolin Tae Kwan Kung Fu Karate Jutsu Pizza Do with
> Chi, pepperoni, mushrooms and of course with garlic"
> Just being able to say this fast 5 times gets you an automatic
> "black belt" and your breath registered as a lethal weapon.
> 
> 
> <winey voice on>  That'll be 30 minutes or it free!
> 


NO, I meant what I wrote, I did not creat this name. This name is fictitious
for political reasons. I do not belong to this school, but I know and understand
the legal reason behind this name. This school teachs a combined style of kenpo
and praying mantis. Beyond this, the point of the post was HUMOR ....., please
let's not get so heavy about everything.

I now return the soapbox to who ever has it next.
-- 
Alan LaPenn      att!mvuxd!yy          .signature not found!
From: rmr@acsu.buffalo.edu (Richard M. Romanowski)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Badass Karate
Date: 16 Nov 92 23:02:12 GMT
Article-I.D.: acsu.Bxtzzp.II3
Organization: UB

richard@paragon.folly.welly.gen.nz (Richard Parry) writes:

>But how many Mouy Thai artists have you seen fight who are over 30 years
>old?  I haven't seen ever 25, personally - their art simply wears them
>out.  So, for 5 or ten years, they are superior, then they lose it
>(IMHO).

>Then look at a hard karate style, or kung fu style.  These guys train
>hard too, but you still see them fighting tournament and actually being
>able to move around in day to day life when their 40 or so.  Hm.  A case
>in point, just to "parade" some people around: Mas Oyama, Kyokushin's
>founder and leader, is an old dude of some 69 years or something.  He
>still breaks bricks, does kata, and can fight.  He looks old, but not
>_one_ of his students wants to take him on in a real fight.  And he kept
>fighting tourneys and killing bulls into his latter years...

>He's worked hard, and he does a hard style.  You tell me.

>Cheers!

	I trained at Ishin-Ryu, VERYbriefly, before I decided yoga was
more my style, and one of the senseis was tiny, wrinkled, probably eighty
but at least sixty ... and he was like the Energizer bunny with a kendo
stick instead of the drum sticks.  :)
	And, IMHO, IshinRyu is a very stiff, hard art.  Well, stiffer 
than yoga, at least.  Not that I know a damn thing...
Luck
Rick
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: yy@cbnews.cb.att.com (alan.j.lapenn)
Subject: Humor, at NH tournament
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 10:55:48 GMT

Well, I wished that I had had my video camera for this one.

I was at the Northern Shaolin Karate Assn. tournament  in Concord, NH this 
Sunday, November 15th. At the end of a very long day, after most of the people
had left, they had the black belt competition. Well, during the forms event 
one of the contestants was wearing one of those black satin kung fu uniforms
( the person was male not that it makes a difference). Well, he was about
three quarters of the way thru his form when the draw string on his pants
decided to BREAK!!!!!!!, and procede to creep down his legs exposing first his
back sides and then his fronsides as well. He did complete his form and attempt
to appear dignifed holding his pants up with one hand and bowing at the end.

It was quite funny, but, I do commend this individual for finishing the form
without loosing stride ( No doubt a true martial artist).
-- 
Alan LaPenn      att!mvuxd!yy          .signature not found!
From: la@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Lewis Alderton)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Aikido : jo vs. spear
Date: 18 Nov 92 10:57:12 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Edinburgh

In article <1992Nov17.184646.11795@cs.brown.edu>, tac@cs.brown.edu (Ted A. Camus) writes:
> 
>   There is something I have always wondered about the jo.  Biographies of 
>   O'Sensei note that he studied Hozoin ryu spear, but not the jo (although 
>   there is mention of Daito-ryu "stick fighting").  When we study aikijo, 
>   are we really imitating the movements of a spear rather than a jo, just 
>   as a bokken is not a bokken but a katana?  In aikijo kata we have far 
>   fewer end-reversals than in jodo kata, to the extent that one might 
>   suspect that they were just thrown in at some point (of course unlike 
>   the jo the spear is asymmetric, one would rarely if ever want to reverse 
>   the position of the spear head).  Comments??
> 
>      -- Ted --
As far as I know, the 31 jo kata was developed from a (some) spear
kata. It's my guess that O' Sensei moved from spear to jo as a 
safety move (c.f. ken to bokken). 

Did O' Sensei ever actually use a spear against an opponent in a 
kata? Certainly Saito has changed (minor alterations) the 31 kata
to accomodate a Uke.

+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
|                 |I do not know what I may appear to the world, but |
| Lovely Louie    |to myself I seem to have been only like a small   |
| la@dcs.ed.ac.uk |boy playing on the sea-shore, and diverting myself|
|                 |in now and then finding a smoother pebbly or a    |
|                 |prettier shell than ordinary, whilst the great    |
|                 |ocean of truth lay all undiscovered before me.    |
|                 |           SIR ISAAC NEWTON                       |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: acharya@HYDRA.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: 10th Dan & Badass Karate (belt system)
Date: 16 Nov 1992 21:04:37 GMT
Organization: Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology
Reply-To: acharya@HYDRA.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU
NNTP-Posting-Host: hydra.rose-hulman.edu

In article <BOWERS.92Nov16110409@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov>, bowers@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Al Bowers) writes:
>In article <1992Nov15.190126.206@pages.com> kevin@pages (Kevin Sven Berg) writes:
>
>>In article <1992Nov14.045400.26626@gagme.chi.il.us> phantom@gagme.chi.il.us  
>>(Leif Ericksen) writes:
>>[...snip snip ...]
>>> 	True, the original belt systems was teh dirtier it was the
>>> more experience you supposedly had.  THUS the tradition that YOU NEVER
>>> EVER was your belt.
>
>>'never wash you belt?
>
>>This sounds like folklore, and I find it hard to believe arising from a
>>society that places great value in bathing and cleanliness.
>
>It should be noted that the belt system is _not_ Japanese, but is a
>transplant from Okinawa, where it originated.  In traditional Japanese
>styles, your were a student, accomplished, or a master.
>
>Belt rankings were not prevalent in the Japanese styles until this
>century.


we need to get this on the FAQ!

as far as i know, the belt system was introduced by funakoshi. while on the
topic of belts, did kano also use a belt system in judo? steve...bud...anyone?

mukund
From: roberts@pogo.wv.tek.com (Robert Stroud)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: The art of head-butting!
Date: 17 Nov 92 23:20:53 GMT
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Wilsonville,  OR.


  For what it is worth! I have heard this "waza"
  referred to as the IRISH KISS. 
                                  :-)
   
-- 
Robert Stroud       Robert_Stroud@simulacrum.wv.tek.com
Obukan Kendo Club
Portland Oregon USA
From: gt1274b@prism.gatech.EDU (Dan Puckett)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Combat effectiveness?
Date: 23 Nov 92 18:29:16 GMT
Organization: Screaming Lizard Propulsion Systems


richard@paragon.folly.welly.gen.nz (Richard Parry) writes:
& Now, I want to know what you lot consider the single most effective
& fighting art.  Look at it from all angles - sure, and aikidoka can grab
& a karateka in an arm lock, and break his arm, but while he's doing that
& (assuming equal speed on both parts), the karateka can punch him out.

Buy a gun.

Learn how to shoot.

It'll do ya in most places with most cases.

Comparing martial arts is like saying "What tool is best?"  The answer
is another question: "For what purpose?"  Different martial arts are
good for different things.  Each has its own strengths and weaknesses.
Declaring one to be better than the rest says more about the person
doing the declaring than it does about the art.


-- 
Dan Puckett:                                    rugged, revisionist, runcible.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: paananen@tuxedo.enet.dec.com (Ed Paananen)
Subject: Cost of Teaching!
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 01:54:39 GMT


Greeting,
	Reading the thread on Charging for training makes me think of
the "flip-side" of it all... The cost of teaching. I'd like to present
some figures of what it costs to run a school up here in Massachusetts.

	1000sq' space (@$15/sq ft) (low rent district)	$1250/month
	($45/sq' in Malls and other prime 1st floor locations)
	Electric					$100/month
	Phone (business rates plus yellow pages ad)	$120/month
	Heat ($1200/yr)					$100/month
	Liability Insurance ($2000/yr high risk)	$166/month
						total	$1736/month
							(or $21k/yr)
This represents basic operating expenses. This does not include any wages,
unemployment insurance, taxes, equipment budget, advertising, or
administration costs (tax preparation, accounting, bank fees etc, etc) 

The going reasonable rate for classes around central MA I think is about
$45/month. That means that a school needs to have 39 (call it 40) students
enroled at all times just to meet basic survival expenses. NO profit here! In
order to make a living you'd need 100 full time students or put the rates
over $100/month. (forget it...)

The point I am presenting is that it costs money to run a small business
these days. The dojo-in-the-garage is nice but even then there are hidden
costs to both sides. Most likely, schools will cut corners or not figure
cetain expenses until too late. Many schools operate on a cash basis and the
IRS is VERY interested in these people. If you employ an assistant instructor
(even for free lessons in return) the operator of the school is liable for
taxes and may be liable for unemployment insurance to the tune of 15% of the
value of the service. Not much based on a $45/mo "value" but the compounded
quarterly penalties can put you out of business real fast. 

I hope this helps in putting some things in perspective.
But, please continue with your debate about "cost of training".


Ed P (30 yrs experiance running a dojo)

Ed Paananen	paananen@tuxedo.dec.com
From: todd.paulus%theweb@meaddata.com (Todd Paulus) 
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Korean TKD Terminology (r
Date: 19 Nov 92 10:45:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Web BBS 1-513-436-9011 6 Lines 1200 News groups 50,000 files!
Reply-To: todd.paulus%theweb@meaddata.com (Todd Paulus) 

To: brad@SSD.CSD.HARRIS.COM

BA>Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
BA>Subject: Korean TKD Terminology (revised & expanded)
BA>Keywords: TKD, Korea
BA>Message-ID: <1dmf0dINNko9@travis.csd.harris.com>
BA>Date: 9 Nov 92 19:43:09 GMT

BA>Okay - I believe this is my final version of my summary of
BA>Korean terms for TKD. Thank you very much to all who replied!
BA>I will not post this again unless I see an explicit interest.
BA>If anyone has access to an anonymous FTP site they are more than
BA>welcome to archive this article there (and let the rest of rec.m-a
BA>know where it is).

BA>If anyone would like the nroff/troff source (which uses the "-mm"
BA>macros) for the terminology list (so it looks pretty when sent to
BA>the laser-printer) please e-mail me with your request!


Brad,

I just wanted to take a moment to say "THANK YOU!!" for this excellent
document!  I appreciate the effort that went into writing it and getting
into the NET.  I am using it to supplement many of the missing words in
our vocabulary, here.  And will share it with other instructors.
Thanks, again!  If you continue to watch for new, additional words to
add to the list, that would be great!  I should probably simply learn
the language, but who has the time anymore?

Regards,
Todd

---
 . OLX 2.2 . Real men write self-modifying code
From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andrew Michael Woodward)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: The art of head-butting!
Date: 20 Nov 92 12:17:54 GMT
Organization: University of Wales, Aberystwyth

Dont use head butting? Hell get in there. The only defense against one is to 
get in first, so if you dont, tough! If one hits your nose you wont see much 
for a while and will be helpless.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: jon@zeus.med.utah.edu (Jonathan Byrd)
Subject: Re: The art of head-butting!
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 17:33:40 GMT
Organization: University of Utah

In article <1quiuB1w165w@bluemoon.use.com> lchurch2@bluemoon.use.com (Leonard Church) writes:

   HOW do you practice a head butt.  Take a board and hit yourself about the 
   head and face.....???? Ouch@!

Good question.  Very good question.  In fact it is such a good
question that you'll probably be disappointed in the answer, which
isn't nearly as good: you simply can't practice head-butts very
realistically, unless you are psychopathic enough to experiment on
unwilling partners.

That is the whole trouble with head-butts, eye-gouges, knee-kicks,
ankle-bites, and the dreaded Touch-o'-Death [tm].  It is also the
primary reason that I favor the head-punch and the belly-kick.  By
learning to control your limb extension, you can stop these blows at
the surface (I like free-sparring with you!), at 2'' depth (Warning!),
or the full 6-8'' penetration (Die, rat bastard!).

--
jonathan byrd
jon@apollo.med.utah.edu
Newsgroups: rec.misc
From: dlawren@salsa.abq.bdm.com (David P. Lawrence)
Subject: Test
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 20:51:34 GMT
Organization: BDM International
Followup-To: rec.misc

This is a test....


David P. Lawrence               ------>
From: HF.LTI@forsythe.stanford.edu (Lynn Timothy)
Newsgroups: rec.misc
Subject: 1983 Toyota Longbed Pickup
Date: 23 Nov 1992 14:59:57 -0800
Organization: Stanford University
NNTP-Posting-Host: morrow.stanford.edu

                         F O R    S A L E ! ! !


                              1983 Toyota

                             Longbed Pickup

Features:

             * New Brakes
             * New Shocks
             * New Exhaust
             * Cruise Control
             * Camper Shell
             * Carpet Kit
             * Low Mileage

   $2800.00

Contact:  Bob Bumala @Home - 415-747-0337
                     @Work - 415-725-7593
Newsgroups: rec.hunting