HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: shafto@aristotle.ils.nwu.edu (Eric Shafto)
Subject: Re: 3rd space guardian robots
Organization: The Institute for the Learning Sciences
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 21:31:55 GMT

Jim Ivey (jive@spanky.ssc.gov) wrote:
: 
: 
:      Sounds like a crutch, not a feature.  Seriously, looking back over the
: points people have made _for_ 3rd space.
: 
:      1) Easier to sneak in
:      2) Place for scout bombers to refuel
:      3) One way to avoid LPS
:      4) Taking it away would cause claustraphobia
: 
:      They fall into 4 quick categories.
: 
:      1) Planet scum
:      2) Poor scout bombers
:      3) Bad strategists
:      4) People who shouldn't be playing netrek from their room at the
:           mental hospital

Give me a break!  Neutral space adds an interesting dimension to the
game.  It gives takers and bombers a place to escape to when the
heat's on.  It keeps defenders from being able to create a Maginot
line.  It allows a winning team to open up a second front which must
be defended.  

If you have never drawn a defender out into 3rd space, then YOU are a
poor scout bomber.  If you have never snuck in from 3rd space to take
a planet, why the hell haven't you?  It's not scumming, it's playing.

I will also assume that you have never been on the "winning" side of an
unbreakable LPS, since you are such a good strategist, and only bad
strategists could have a problem breaking an LPS.  While we are on the
subject, I think that you meant "tacticians", not "strategists".  I
don't really see much use for strategy in an LPS, while tactics can be
supremely important.

As for the "claustrophobia" claim, the claimants are not simply
talking about their mental state.  It's not that they would *feel*
trapped, it's that they would *be* trapped. 

Finally, four races allows four different games to be played.  This
adds variety.  I was very sorry to hear that Ray was set on a 2-race
galaxy.  I still hope he changes his mind.  If he does not, I suspect
that someone will take his code, hack in neutral space, and create
a very successful server.

--
*Eric Shafto             * The excursion is the same when you go looking  *
*Institute for the       * for your sorrow as when you go looking for     *
*    Learning Sciences   * your joy.                                      *
*Northwestern University *                Eudora Welty, The Wide Net      *
Organization: Senior, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 04:03:32 -0400 
From: Nanci Ann Miller <nm0w+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Demise of nova.ksu.ksu.edu

bav@hobbes.ksu.ksu.edu (Brick Verser) writes:
> I knew it was bound to happen.  The DEC sales lady called today and requested
> that we return to her the nice 5000/25 which served so well as our dedicated
> netrek server.  DEC never gave us any software for the box so we never
> figured out anything officially useful we could do with it--but it made
> a darn fine netrek server.  In any event, unless someone with clout can
> convince the local DEC branch that they're selling oodles and gobs of
> machines thanks to the fine publicity they were getting, nova will be
> turned off and shipped away RealSoonNow.  ByeBye Hockey server.  
> ByeBye INL server.  Sad, so sad.
> 
> --Brick

*sigh*  So now where will we play hockey on Thursday evenings (and
hopefully more once it catches on)?  Any server god's willing to volunteer?
The ohio server might be good for it... 

Nanci

PS. Hockey != Soccer
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: cks@hawkwind.utcs.toronto.edu (Chris Siebenmann)
Subject: Re: 3rd space guardian robots
Organization: Ziebmef home away from home
Date: 29 Aug 92 09:25:20 GMT

shafto@aristotle.ils.nwu.edu (Eric Shafto) writes in an article I
otherwise agree more or less completely with:
| You cannot win and avoid an LPS against a team of Lt. Cmdrs or above.

 You value rank too highly and skill too little. There are many people,
even on bronco, who hold Commander or higher rank through lucky
scumming; see past threads on this. A skilled and together team can do
*amazing* things; see 'Arrogant Assholes, works of' for an example, and
I've seen bronco pickup teams genocide pretty cluefull and high-ranked
pickup teams.

--
	When we get calls from faculty and staff regarding problematic
	software, we always ask if they have a backup.  We got this
	*classic* response today "Well, I thought I had a backup, but
	she refused to type it in again..."	- Lou Anschuetz
cks@hawkwind.utcs.toronto.edu	           ...!{utgpu,utzoo,watmath}!utgpu!cks
From: fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re those proposed MS-II changes
Date: 1 Sep 92 19:06:28 GMT
Reply-To: fadden@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

Due to popular demand (somebody sent a mail message), I decided to leave
the "server not responding" messages on the "new" display.  However, I
went ahead and stripped out both "not responding" and "empty" messages from
the "verbose" display.

I also added a new "D" flag, which means "this server was never up during
the lifetime of the MS-II process".  If a server goes for a couple of days
without losing the "D" flag, I'll drop it from the metarc.  panther, alia,
and grit were commented out this morning.  I also added a "how long have I
been up" note to the top of the "new" display.

BTW, you can get a list of recent changes from the "info" port (3523).


Random side note: 1/5 of all MetaServerII connections come from ulowell.edu,
and pretty much all of them are on port 3520.  Some heavy XNetrekM users
out there, I guess.

Random followup: people keep connecting to charon port 2520, so I changed
the port number.  Now 2520 gets you nothing.  I may change it to a "yo
hoser" message for the next few days...

-- 
fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
[ Above opinions are mine, Amdahl has nothing to do with them, etc, etc. ]
From: tw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu (Timothy C. Worsley)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Bezier is back!?!?!
Date: 3 Sep 92 03:11:56 GMT
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 3-Sep-92 Bezier is back!?!?!
Jiang Wu@sickdog.CS.Berk (999)

> 		* Transwarp (Officially endorsed by K. Smith ! :-)
> 		  available.  Lock on your SB, and press '*'.  Whoosh! you
> 		  warp at 60!!!!!  If you miss your SB, there will be a
> 		  small bonus for your ship.... ;-)

	No, no, no. . .  
	Not a bonus. . .
	A *gift*
"The Gift of Speed"(TM)

ZZnew guy
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: jecoleb@eos.ncsu.edu (The Handshake of Death)
Subject: Re: UPENN is gonna RULE!!!
Originator: jecoleb@c00506-119rd.eos.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: jecoleb@eos.ncsu.edu
Organization: The Ghost Of Christmas Past Society
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 00:32:30 GMT


mpearce@stipple.seas.upenn.edu (Mark Pearce) writes
>I thought I should mention that UPENN is gonna destroy everybody this year,
>ESPECIALLY CMU!!!
>
>We have waited a LONG summer to avenge our lost to team Akira.  It will be SO
>fun to crush you!!!

Sounds like that guy from the Kids in the Hall...  "I'm CRUSHING YOUR HEAD,
I'M CRUSHING YOUR HEAD...  flatheads!"

>Now that we've gotten rid of our clueless members (Streaker and FreeKill), we
>will annihilate any opponent that even thinks of stopping us!

Ah, but you left out the REAL reason that UPenn will clean house this year.

I left, too.

gc2n+@andrew.cmu.edu (Greg K Chung) writes knowingly:

>Snicker.

Two snickers, a smile, and a religion.

				Video Sex Pope, honorary UPenn-er
				  West Chester, PA's answer to Godot
-- 
----------jeff the wonder llama, jecoleb@eos.ncsu.edu

------"I am a penis. Worship me."--lead singer of rock band Bicycle Face,
     vainly attempting to gain attention of the crowd at the Cat's Cradle 
     in Chapel Hill, while opening for Mojo Nixon & The Toad Liquors
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: pledit v1.0.2 patch (Piggy)
Date: 26 Aug 92 00:12:11 GMT
Reply-To: fadden@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

Pledit v1.01 crashes when it tries to interpret a database corrupted by a
Pig borg (thanks to g0nitzer@cdf.toronto.edu for telling me about it).  The
corruption occurs when the server maintainer tries to process a scorefile
generated with "scores A".  Since Pig borgs shove a ctrl-J (linefeed) into
the keymap, an extra linefeed is present in the file, and the entry for the
player gets screwed up.

pledit dies because a score field doesn't get filled in, and you end up with
total ticks = 0 (which is usually impossible).  This is a quick patch to
prevent it from dumping core with a floating point exception.

Note that you'll still end up with two entries in the player database, one
for the first half of the player and one for the second.  Generally, the
first half will contain the player login and password, while the second half
will contain all of the stats.  This isn't something I have control over.
I suppose it would be possible to write a "merge" command, but it would be
very difficult because some of the stats are stored as their ASCII
representation ("newscores" thought they were part of the keymap string).

Anyway.  This will patch it to v1.02.  Seems to work okay here.  The NBR
needs to strip LFs out of the keymap in the server before saving them to
the .players file.


*** Oedit.c	Tue Aug 25 16:56:26 1992
--- edit.c	Tue Aug 25 17:00:49 1992
***************
*** 233,238 ****
--- 233,241 ----
  	if (read(pl_fd, &(player[num_players].se), sizeof(struct statentry))
  						== sizeof(struct statentry)) {
  	    player[num_players].state = E_ALIVE;
+ 	    /* fix for Pig borg corrupted scores files */
+ 	    if (!player[num_players].se.stats.st_tticks) 
+ 		player[num_players].se.stats.st_tticks = 1;
  	    num_players++;
  	} else
  	    break;

-- 
fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
[ Above opinions are mine, Amdahl has nothing to do with them, etc, etc. ]
From: fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: That "MetaServerII booster" program...
Date: 31 Aug 92 15:28:44 GMT
Reply-To: fadden@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

...seems to have worked.  So the problem with the transmission being cut
off is telnet's fault, not MS-IIs.

So, if you want to pipe the output of it to "more" or something, you need to
use the program I posted to ensure reliable delivery.  This is annoying.  I
looked over the man page for telnet but couldn't figure out a way to make it
wait on close; I may go scrounging through the source to try to figure out
what it's doing.  Somehow it seems to be checking for close before it does
the final read().

I'll put the source code on the "info" port, which will help anybody who
has a reasonable connection.  If you can't get it from there I can e-mail it
or make it FTPable.  Anybody who can figure out how to make telnet do the
Right Thing gets a prize. :-)

-- 
fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
[ Above opinions are mine, Amdahl has nothing to do with them, etc, etc. ]
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 17:09:18 -0400 
From: Greg K Chung <gc2n+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: The BEST in the WORLD!!!
	<BtG4KC.L6u.2@cs.cmu.edu>




Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 23-Aug-92 Re: The BEST in the
WORLD!!! Robert Hill@norman.VI.RI (1113)


> ANDY KUMEDA writes
> > I was just wondering who everyone thought the BEST players in the world
> > of Netrek were in the following categories:


> >   * Best * scum 
> When I think of the word "scum" I think of Stilletto.  Sorry greg :-)


Why thank you!  But it's "Stiletto"... check your eyes!


PS...  I am interested in forming/joining an INL @LARGE team this
season...  just in case...  hint.

Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: rjones@sulaco.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Ray Jones - Perp)
Subject: Re: More about RSA
Reply-To: rjones@dsd.es.com
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp.
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 15:07:14 GMT

In article <1992Aug28.072833.14575@alijku05.edvz.uni-linz.ac.at>, ppregler@risc.uni-linz.ac.at (Peter Pregler) writes:
>Btw, is the RSAREF-stuff only for you Americans?

Depends entirely on how much you let international laws rule your actions.

Since I agreed to the terms of the license agreement, I will stick by them.
This means I cannot distribute the code outside the US (and Canada, I
think).  So that's what I'll do.  As soon as it is done, I'll give everyone
who wants a copy the code.  I imagine that eventually it will end up
leaking out, but not by my actions.

This is not to be construed as encouraging or suggesting to anyone that
they should break the license agreement in any way.  (just covering my
ass.)

>Peter Pregler / RISC, University of Linz, Austria
>Bitnet: K315470@AEARN.BITNET  Internet: ppregler@risc.uni-linz.ac.at

-- 
                                          rjones@dsd.es.com
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Fri,  4 Sep 1992 03:28:29 -0400 
From: "Timothy C. Worsley" <tw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Hints for Beginners
	<Bu0Knu.Ln.2@cs.cmu.edu>

Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 3-Sep-92 Re: Hints for Beginners
Robert Hill@norman.VI.RI (225)

> > 	I) You are more likely to get the kill if you uncloak in front of  
> the enemy.
> > 
> > ZZnew guy

> You are also much less likely to kill him.

> Rob


	You confuse me, Rob.  I said you were more likely to kill if you
uncloaked in front of the target, and you then said that I am "also"
*less* likely to kill.  I've found that if I uncloak behind, or even to
the side, I tend to get pummelled with torps and die.  If I uncloak in
front, I pummel my target with torps, and turn off my shields to die.

ZZnew guy
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: mcn@cwru.edu (Michael C. Neuman)
Subject: Re: Borgs : WHY?  HOW?  AS IF...
Reply-To: mcn@b62103.student.cwru.edu
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 20:00:34 GMT

In article <l9svl6INNjth@aludra.usc.edu> eugenehs@aludra.usc.edu (HEUGE aka  
Eugene Hsu) writes:

>Just trying to make a point or bring forth a discussion.

  Sigh, or rather, "Just trying to bring up yet another stupid flame war..."

>What is ther purpose of borgs (except for newbies to learn)?  

  Borgs are rarely used to help newbies learn. The fun of borgs is writing  
them--using them is stupid if you didn't write 'em. If you don't have the  
talent to write a borg, than don't play during borg hours against people who  
do! Some (myself included) would argue that borgs should not be released to the  
public domain--but if that were the case those of us who write them would have  
less competition :-).

>Why do experienced trekkers require using borgs to play?

  Borgs do add a different perspective on the game--the person with the "best"  
borg: the best programmed, with the most useful features, tailored to the user   
will win. I use it cuz I enjoy it--it puts everyone on a more equal level, and  
gives me an opportunity to apply my programming skills in a more interesting  
way than normal course work. I do enjoy a good human only game, and usually  
refuse to play as a human during borg hours because it does completely drain  
the fun from the game...

>Why do servers "want" borgs? (by setting up Borg hours)

  Well, arguably, the next step in evolution from borgs is to bots... I do a  
lot of testing and development of my bot during borg hours on my server...  
That's why *I* want borgs on my server--to encourage authors, and promote their  
advancement. (Hmm.. I should submit an NSF proposal--that sounds pretty good...  
:-) )

--
Mike Neuman                mcn@b62103.student.cwru.edu
			   NeXTmail accepted!!!
"To make a machine that will be proud of us." - Thinking Machine's motto

Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: rjones@itchy.dsd.es.com (Ray Jones - Perp)
Subject: Re: 3rd space guardian robots
Organization: Design Systems Division, Evans & Sutherland, SLC, UT
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 16:48:57 GMT

In article <lyodav.714977954@vincent1.iastate.edu> lyodav@iastate.edu (Sun God) writes:
>[...]
>Bombing: seperate the married cousins, ogging and bombing. This would only
>   include armies bombed. Credit would be given for reinforcing a friendly
>   planet up to 4. (clever eh?)
>[...]

Very clever.  So clever, it's already in the server :) 

Try it sometime.  Check your stats.  Reinforce a planet.  Check your stats
again.  If you reinforce from 1 to 4, you get credit for bombing 6 armies.

--------- Code from Bronco Release -------------	                   
if (status->tourn && l->pl_armies < 4 && 
    me->p_ship.s_type!=STARBASE) {
    j->p_stats.st_tarmsbomb+=(4 - l->pl_armies);
    status->armsbomb+=(4 - l->pl_armies);
}
--------- End of code --------------------------

Nifty, eh? 

Ray
--
                                          rjones@dsd.es.com
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: osyjm@cs.montana.edu (Jaye Mathisen)
Subject: Re: 3rd space guardian robots
Organization: CS
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 00:55:26 GMT

In article <2476@cronos.metaphor.com> polk@Metaphor.COM (Ben Polk) writes:
>[discussion of why third space is good for sneaking in deleted]
>
>I LIKE playing games where you are trying to take or hold third
>space.  It calls for different strategy and tactics.  Your life
>is worth something, as it takes a long time to fly back, and giving

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't we talking about say, an r vs f game with
r owning k and r space?  And then r's going down and taking Ori to conquer
the galaxy?


-- 
 Jaye Mathisen, COE Systems Manager                (406) 994-4780
 410 Roberts Hall,Dept. of Computer Science
 Montana State University,Bozeman MT 59717	osyjm@cs.montana.edu
From: kube@soda.berkeley.edu (Donald J. Kubasak)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Bezier is back!?!?!
Date: 3 Sep 1992 03:34:49 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley, CS Undergraduate Association
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu

Okay, so bezier is now on sickdog - with a few changes ...

What is the deal with the semi-wrapping walls?  It's kinda interesting
once you get the hang of it, but ...

Danger Mouse (ne' Fahrvergnuegen et al)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: jecoleb@eos.ncsu.edu (have clue, will travel)
Subject: Re: Demise of nova.ksu.ksu.edu
Originator: jecoleb@c00508-119rd.eos.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: jecoleb@eos.ncsu.edu
Organization: new applicant, the Val Ckurai School of Ogging
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 16:18:47 GMT


nm0w+@andrew.cmu.edu (Nanci Ann Miller) writes:
>bav@hobbes.ksu.ksu.edu (Brick Verser) writes:
>> [nova is hosed]
> *sigh*  So now where will we play hockey on Thursday evenings (and
> hopefully more once it catches on)?  Any server god's willing to volunteer?
> The ohio server might be good for it... 

>Nanci

A small suggestion to server-gods who are listening...
  particularly the SMALL servers who constantly show "Nobody
  is playing" when I kick in the MetaServer.

Now that nova's about to R.I.P. *sniff*, announcing a regular
Hockey Night or Hockey hours on YOUR server could be a nifty
way to draw some mildly-clued players your way... sparing you
the embarrassment of perpetual "0 players online" rosters. ;)

			anyone?  anyone?  bueller?  bueller?
				
				Video Sex Pope, and countless
				    throwaway characters
				      ncsu's answer to 
				         ted kennedy

			 	
-- 
----------jeff the wonder llama, jecoleb@eos.ncsu.edu

------"I am a penis. Worship me."--lead singer of rock band Bicycle Face,
     vainly attempting to gain attention of the crowd at the Cat's Cradle 
     in Chapel Hill, while opening for Mojo Nixon & The Toad Liquors
From: wolfone@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Patrick Chester)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Hints for Beginners
Date: 2 Sep 92 05:55:47 GMT
Reply-To: wolfone@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Patrick Chester)
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX
Originator: wolfone@bashful.cc.utexas.edu

Here are a few hints that new players might try:

1)Instead of using a battleship like the hints in the game suggest, use a
  smaller, more manueveable ship. Dodging is easier than shooting accurately.
  you'll probably get blown away a few times, but if you practice you will
  eventually be hard to kill. You can always run away.

2)At first, don't play too aggressively. Most of your shots will probably miss
  and you'll get blasted at point blank by an experienced player. Take pot 
  shots from long range until your aim improves.

3)NEVER try to take worlds with a scout or destroyer unless you are very good.
  Neither can carry very many armies and have low damage thresholds. Use an
  assault ships until you gain enough experience to become a vaunted scout
  bomber.

4)Avoid the robot ships until your aim improves or you will be toasted. Avoid
  playing during borg hours (unless you have a real good borg.)

5)If you want a lot of dogfighting experience and don't mind getting mobbed
  by more experienced players, try this:Type a message to on the ALL (or
  opposing team's) message board that looks like:

       R2->ALL:Hi guys! I'm new around here so go easy on me..:)

6)When typing messages always check your tactical screen for closing enemy 
  vessels. You are helpless when typing messages. It helps to set a course away
  from a big battle or stopping in an isolated spot before typing.

Hope this helps some of you new players.

Patrick Chester
claypigeon
From: jesup@cbmvax.commodore.com (Randell Jesup)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: INL server version 2.0
Date: 29 Aug 92 21:19:55 GMT
Reply-To: jesup@cbmvax.commodore.com (Randell Jesup)
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA

rjones@dsd.es.com writes:
>I just dropped the Official INL server on ftp.cis.ksu.edu.  This is version
>2.0.  There was a version 1.1, but 2.0 came so soon after it, it never got
>announced. 

	Please, when you announce something available for FTP, PLEASE give
the full path for the file!  Those of us stuck using ftpmail can take days
or more of trading mail messages with ftpmail-servers to try to locate
the needed file(s).

-- 
"Rev on the redline, you're on your own; seems like a lifetime, but soon it's
 gone..."  Foreigner
-
Randell Jesup, Jack-of-quite-a-few-trades, Commodore Engineering.
{uunet|rutgers}!cbmvax!jesup, jesup@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com  BIX: rjesup  
Disclaimer: Nothing I say is anything other than my personal opinion.
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: rjones@itchy.dsd.es.com (Ray Jones - Perp)
Subject: Re: Hints for Beginners
Organization: Design Systems Division, Evans & Sutherland, SLC, UT
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 92 03:58:18 GMT

A couple of suggestions, additions, whatevers...

In article <BtzBJ4.4tA.1@cs.cmu.edu> hde+@cs.cmu.edu (Herbert Enderton) writes:
>19) Helping to take break last planet stands
>   A) Teamwork becomes essential.  Use the message window.
>   B) You want one (or perhaps two) carriers, and the rest of the team
>      should concentrate on helping them with a well-timed suicide run.
>   C) Synchronization is important, so set up roughly in a circle around
>      the target and charge when the carrier calls `go'.

This is one method.  IMHO a better method is to get the entire team to 
cloak and act like a taker, charging the planets, but dodging as much as
possible.  After about 30 seconds, most of the defenders are out of fuel.
The non-carrier attackers uncloak, drawing off more fire, and tractoring
any enemy trying to dock on the planet, assuming it is a fuel planet.  

This is probably better for Home Planet LPSes, since killing is a Bad Thing
when it's the home planet.  It works pretty well, and is easier to
coordinate than a full team ogg.

>21) Starbases
>   A) Each team gets one starbase.  If it dies, there's 30 minute wait.

20 minute wait.... bug in the server.  Was this fixed in the last bronco
--
                                          rjones@dsd.es.com
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek