HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: burke@vxdesy.desy.de
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Question -- Auras and Spells
Organization: (DESY, Hamburg, Germany)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 21:33:49 GMT

In article <Bz6x9x.5o9@rice.edu>, hyatt@owlnet.rice.edu (David Waterman Hyatt) writes:
> Inanimate objects are visible because of reflected light, and they
> block the passage of magical energy and emotions, two primary
> elements of the astral form or AURA.  Because such objects block
> the flow of aura, astral beings cannot assense through them.  
> THESE OBJECTS HAVE NO AURA OR ASTRAL FORM THEMSELVES, HOWEVER,
> and so astral beings can freely pass through the astral position
> corresponding to the object's physical space.

I think this is just too strong a statement - their aura isn't strong enough to
block your passage, but it does exist.

> Now suppose that we accept the following explanation.  All things
> have auras, maybe limited ones that are hard to cast through.  Then
> how do you decide what constitutes a complete object?  Do auras
> mingle, i.e. items on a person's body are all intermingled with
> that person's aura, and thus don't need to roll when resistance tests
> are called for, say from a Power Ball?  

I think this depends on the spell caster - s/he can choose to individually
target items (if s/he can see them) or not.

> What about objects in a combat spell's radius of effect?  Say I hurl
> a Fireball centered on a poor slob in the middle of a room.  Do I

Fireball is a damaging manipulation, and is another story - it creates real
fire, and so affects everything.

  I have another question about targetting. It's made very clear that
spell-casting needs line-of-sight, although presumably you can take the
blind-fire penalty for something that you can't see but know is there. However,
what about the rule that spells ground out in the body of an astrally
projecting mage? Here you not only can't see the targets, but don't (in
general) even know they're there, so how can the spell ground out? Or does
this only happen for damaging manipulations?

e----><----p | Stephen Burke           | Internet: burke@vxdesy.desy.de
 H   H   1   | Gruppe FH1T (Liverpool) | DECnet:   vxdesy::burke (13313::burke)
 H   H  11   | DESY, Notkestrasse 85   | BITNET:   BURKE@DESYVAX or SB2@UKACRL
 HHHHH   1   | 2000 Hamburg 52         | JANET:    sb2@uk.ac.rl.ib
 H   H   1   | Germany                 | Phone:    + 49 40 8998 2282
 H   H 11111 | HERA, the world's largest electron microscope!
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: flindholm@mta.ca
Subject: Shadowrun -- Astral Perception and Spells
Reply-To: flindholm@mta.ca
Organization: Mount Allison U, Sackville, N.B. Canada 
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 18:40:41 GMT

I agree with your ruling on astral perception. We threw the idea that 
you can't cast spells at things in astral space when only percieving
right into the trash. You should already be at a disadvantage as the
person projecting is moving so much faster than you. Also, if you can
interact every other way with astral perception, why not spells too?
Hopefully they'll coorect this little oversight in the GrimoireII.

     Cyrus
From: dseal@armltd.co.uk (David Seal)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: GURPS Luck
Date: 11 Dec 92 13:37:17 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: A.R.M. Ltd, Swaffham Bulbeck, Cambs, UK

In article <1992Dec8.175310.2023@oz.plymouth.edu> sos@oz.plymouth.edu
(Steffan O'Sullivan) writes:

>bkoike@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Bryce Koike) writes:
>>
>>	It's actually pretty useful, I think.  (On the other hand,
>>you could alter it to allow you to decide, AFTER THE FACT, if you
>>want to make two rolls.  I think this might make it a bit too
>>useful, but whatever.  Example:  "Okay, I'm walking across the
>>tightrope, uh, I roll....17.  Uh, can I use my luck now?")
>
>Er, Bruce, that's how it works.  You can call it after you make a
>roll.  Not much point to it otherwise.

Hmm... if this is how it is intended to work, it's something that ought to
be spelt out in the rules. Everybody I know, including myself, has read it
the other way - i.e. that you have to declare *before* the roll that you are
going to be lucky and take three rolls.

I'm inclined to believe the advantage to be somewhat overpriced if you have
to declare its use before the first roll - 10/20 points would be better than
15/30 in this case. But I suspect it's underpriced if you can declare its
use after the first roll...

David Seal
dseal@armltd.co.uk

All opinions are mine only...
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: George.Harris@launchpad.unc.edu (George Harris)
Subject: Re: RQ: scripts and written language
Organization: University of North Carolina Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 18:44:05 GMT

In article <BzBvKM.CF2@acsu.buffalo.edu> v124pz9t@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (David Cheng) writes:
>In article <1992Dec13.205804.1@wharton.upenn.edu>, millerl@wharton.upenn.edu writes...
>>Here's my proposal for changing the read/write language skills to skills
>>in individual scripts, or alphabets, and requiring both script and
>>language knowledge in order to read or write. Note that ideographic
>>languages, such as the Chinese characters, would count as languages
>>rather than scripts, and for the purposes of the game there would be no
>>associated script skill, unless the GM wanted to ascertain the artistic
>>quality of brushstrokes.
>
>Also, aren't there people who have been trained to read and write 
>only,but who cannot speak the language at all?  Yes, this is a rare
>situation.

	I think this is a valid objection.  Also, I was wondering how this
system would handle people who cannot 'speak' a particular language well (or
at all) because of some physiological limitation (eg Auld Wyrmish for humans).
In these cases ones ability to read/write is not necessarily similarly 
limited.

>-David Cheng
> drcheng@sales.stern.nyu.edu
--
"If you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce, they taste more like
prunes than rhubarb does."		-Groucho Marx

George.Harris@launchpad.unc.edu		or, preferably	gharris@jade.tufts.edu
--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: tsl@munta.cs.mu.OZ.AU (Tim Leask)
Subject: Re: RQ: First Aid
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 04:16:05 GMT


Just a quick clarification to Loren's comments.
Hit points haven't been doubled per se in RQIV. In RQIV you fall unconscious
at 0 hit points and die when you have received double your hit points.
e.g. If you had 13 hit-points you fall unconscious at 0, die at -13.
I think this is an improvement over the old system where you could go
negative but had to be healed to positive by the end of the round.
We always played you had 10 strike ranks to be healed since the end of
round thing was such an artificial restriction. We thought it
was totally absurd that someone mortally wounded on SR1 had 9 strike ranks to 
live while someone mortally wounded on SR 10 was history.

Tim
From: at731@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Troy L. Nothnagel)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Question -- Auras and Spells
Date: 13 Dec 1992 21:18:22 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: at731@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Troy L. Nothnagel)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, esper@cs35b.cs.umn.edu (Dave Sherohman) says:

>>  And I suppose if a book is nestled
>>behind the lamp it gets partial cover with respect to targeting?
>
>Not by me it doesn't.  Since when do you make rolls to hit with (non-
>manipulation) spells?  You see it, you hit it.  Cover don't help.

Vision modifiers DO affect the target number for combat spells.
"You see it, you hit it."  Well, if you can only SORT of see it, it may
be hard to hit.

Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: ratinox@splinter.coe.northeastern.edu (Richard Pieri)
Subject: Re: Swashbuckling
X-Posting-Software: GNUS 3.14.1 [ NNTP-based News Reader for GNU Emacs ]
Reply-To: ratinox@meceng.coe.northeastern.edu
X-Signature-Virus-Protection: Version 1.51
X-Get-A-Clue: Have two, they're small.
Organization: 3WA, Boston Office. Or Nu Meta Chi. Take your pick.
	<Bz66nz.GA7@news.cso.uiuc.edu>
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 00:57:57 GMT

>>>>> In article <Bz66nz.GA7@news.cso.uiuc.edu>,
>>>>> irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Brent Irvine) writes:

BI> Does anyone know of RPG games set in the 1492-1715 era?

There's "GURPS Swashbucklers" <shudder!>

BI> I am starting to adapt Ars Magica to that era, but want to first
BI> see how others are doing it...

Almost any "heroic/cinematic" style of game could be easilly adapted
for swashbuckling. HERO 4th edition, Star Wars, Shadowrun (with a
*lot* of streamlining), TORG, and the Interlock games (CP2020/Mekton
II) have lots of swashbuckling potential.

I'd recommend staying away from the "realistic" games such as GURPS,
Corps, Timelords/Warp World, and Phoenix Command (:-).

--Rat
||||| | | | |  |  |  |   |   |    |    |    |   |   |  |  |  |  | | | | | |||||
Northeastern's Stainless Steel Rat          ratinox@meceng.coe.northeastern.edu
40,000 men and women every day/Another 40,000 comin' every day/Come on
baby/Baby take my hand/We'll be able to fly/Baby I'm your man
                                    --Blue Oyster Cult, (Don't Fear) The Reaper
From: albert@chain.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu (Rick Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Werewolf-the Apocalypse
Date: 17 Dec 1992 19:42:10 GMT
Organization: Baylor College of Medicine, Houston, Tx
NNTP-Posting-Host: chain.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu

In article <BzEyoD.871@news.cso.uiuc.edu> irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Brent Irvine) writes:
>In article <1992Dec16.095623.21277@tdb.uu.se> y91moe@tdb.uu.se (Mattias Oestklint) writes:
>>Gimme some input on this one, please! (Werewolf)
>Is it *that* unpopular?  

	Nah, it's just that most of the discussion on it, and 2nd ed Vampire
as well, are carried out on the vampire mailing list.  Check the FAQ for
it's address.
-- 
Rick Jones				Systems Support Center
albert@bcm.tmc.edu			Baylor College of Medicine
Voice: 713-798-7352			standard disclaimers apply
One jump ahead of the slowpokes, One skip ahead of my doom. - Aladdin
From: "jeff zeitlin" <jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com>
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: lead toy ban      2/2
Date: 14 Dec 92 04:00:27 EST
Reply-To: "jeff zeitlin" <jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com>
Distribution: rec
Organization: Executive Networks Information

(Continued from previous message)

  I was also going to post it to .announce as well, but seeing how the
  moderator is not moderating sensibly, doing so would be a lost
  cause.

  J/
  jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com
---
  QMPro 1.0 41-4533  My reality check just bounced.
--
Executive Network Information System  (914) 667-4567
International ILink Host
From: thpr_ss@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Thomas Parker)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: LEAD MINIATURES BAN
Date: 14 Dec 92 01:18:14 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester - Rochester, New York

For those that are collecting signatures to stop the lead
ban in New York--
Do NOT stop!
Even thought the hearing is tomorrow, and no signtures that you collect now
will make it there, we need to maintain support for stopping the ban
in case that the ban continues.

Continue to get signatures and send them to 
Crazy Egor's (listed in the previous announcements)

his address/fax/phone is available by writing
SIMCON@cc.rochester.edu
or
thpr_ss@uhura.cc.rochester.edu

KEEP UP THE SUPPORT!

THANKS!

Tom Parker
thpr_ss@uhura.cc.rochester.edu
Director of Role-Playing, SIMCON XV convention
University of Rochester, Rochester, NY
SIMCON@cc.rochester.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: urban@stout.atd.ucar.edu (Art Urban (PROFS))
Subject: Re: GURPS: Combat Skills Reduction
Organization: Atmospheric Technology Division/NCAR Boulder, CO
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 23:03:08 GMT

In article <15DEC92.17304522.0096@VM1.MCGILL.CA> CX6L@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA (CX6L) writes:
%In article <1992Dec15.173814.8978@ncar.ucar.edu> urban@stout.atd.ucar.edu (Art Urban (PROFS)) writes:
%
%>I was thinking of doing the same to all the various swords...
%
%Well, you could allow Swords(Shortsword), Swords(Broadsword),
%Swords(Fencing), etc...as separate skills, but that's just a
%renaming of what's already out there. I suppose the Guns
%
%> Swordsman: All varieties of swords are now treated as a simple
%> familiarity. Perhaps this skill would need to made Physical Hard.
%
%Yes, but this is not realistic. No one much trains with all
%swords. I mean, getting the use of short-, broad- and bastard-
%swords, cutlasses, scimitars, sabres, epees, smallswords,
%two-handed swords, katanas, etc... with but a single skill?
%This is an incredible and *very abusive* bargain for multiple-
%weapon-using warriors; while it rips off characters whose
%conception calls for the competant use of one type of sword
%only, by charging them for a hard skill. Why would a lithe
%ST 9 fencer even have a clue with what to do with a flamberge
%he can barely lift? Why would a Roman soldier be good with
%a katana just because he trained with a gladius? Owing to
%the familiarity system, any half-skilled warrior would end up
%being familiar with about 3 or 4 swords!
%
%-Kromm.

Yep...good point(s). Like I said, this was off the top o`me-head.

This was not a good idea, and deserved a quick, painless net-death...

--
Art Urban 					       urban@stout.atd.ucar.edu
===============================================================================
 "Baby trapped in film, eats own hand."					- Joel
===============================================================================
From: felis@wucs1.wustl.edu (Felis Lynx)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Looking for gaming in Boston
Date: 17 Dec 92 15:01:34 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis MO

I am moving to Boston in the (VERY) near future, but I don't want to forsake
gaming for a job in the real world in a new town.  So if anybody out there
knows of a group or is in a group that either needs or wants or can take
another player, I would DEFINITELY like to hear from you.  I have a number
of years experience with:
	AD&D and etc.
	Champions
	Heroes
	Vampire: The Masquerade
	M.E.R.P.

Thanks a lot!

Felis Lynx
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: mavra@cpac.washington.edu (Peter D. Adkison)
Subject: Re: Palladium/Wizards of the Coast Lawsuit
Organization: Wizards of the Coast, Inc.
	<1992Dec17.204454.17079@unislc.uucp>
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 01:34:44 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.204454.17079@unislc.uucp> stv@unislc.uucp (Steve Spencer) writes:

>   FIRST, there is probably no way that you're going to stop Paladium (TM)(
>   (Uh oh, am I going to get in trouble for printing their name :) from going
>   through with the case. So it looks like you're going to set a landmark
>   case concerning such issues, rather you wnat to or not.

Well, the other option is to settle, but that just leaves us more
vulnerable since it would essentially involved an admission of guilt,
thus opening the door for some other company to come after us.

>   SECOND, Maybe you should try to be more general in the cap systems. Use
>   more generic terms, but don't say the actual word. You know what I mean,
>   for instance, if someone copyrighted the word "cat", I could say that
>   in my cap system, the number 587 refferred to "Any small, domestic
>   felines of apx. 15 pounds". Or I could say that ENDURANCE, refferred to
>   "the ability to sustain damage", then I wouldn't REALLY need to tell 
>   everyone that it REALLY meant HP, or STA, or whatever. Just a
> thought.

Yes, that has always been the alternative.  And it's an alternative
that would work fine for the storytelling crowd, but gamers like
myself who like a bit of the work done for them would feel cheated.
Note, this isn't a slam against storytelling, it's just that we don't
want to limit our target audiance.

>    THIRD, and this is not meant to slander PALADIUM (TM), but is it 
>    possible that the "big boys" in the gaming industry kinda look for
>    a way to tie up smaller gaming companies in court, and thus run them
>    out of businness?

That may be their intent.  It's possible that we'll be counter-sueing
for unfair competition and anti-trust, claiming that they are misusing
the legal system to unfairly drive out competition.

>   FOURTH, if there is ANYTHING I can do (shit, that even includes working
>   for free) to help, let me know. I have NEVER worked with a group of
>   people more concered about their public, and willing to help out. 

I really appreciate your offer, and some other similar offers I
received through private e-mail along these lines.  I'm going to post
separately my list of things people can do to help.

				--Mavra!
				  Peter D. Adkison
				  Janitor, Wizards of the Coast
				  mavra@wizards.com

The above internet address should be used for e-mail if it is
different from the e-mail address in the header.
From: jcarl@jabba.ess.harris.com (Joe Carl Jr.)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Shadowrun -- Astral Perception and Spells
Date: 13 Dec 92 16:18:36 GMT
Article-I.D.: jabba.Bz7HB0.5An
Organization: Harris Corporation - ISD

In <Bz6xoG.5q6@rice.edu> hyatt@owlnet.rice.edu (David Waterman Hyatt) writes:

>A magician cannot, however, cast spells at invisible beings or
>characters in ASTRAL SPACE by using enhanced vision or
>ASTRAL PERCEPTION.

I always thought that meant for items that the caster didn't speed
Essence for.  I play that if the Mage has spent Essence for thermographic
eyes, then he can blast the invisible guy.  Unless of course the spell
is the Physical Invisibliity.  Then the cyber eyes don't see the character,
but the Troll Shaman can! (I know, I've never seen a Troll shaman before either)

>The implication of this passage is that if I am astrally perceiving,
>then I CANNOT cast a spell at anything that is in astral space,
>unless I can see the physical component of that being.  A spirit
>in Astral Form would be immune to any spells that I cast unless
>I astrally PROJECT.  It can just whomp on me, unless I go entirely
>astral.

If the Spirit is in astral space and your in normal space then neither
can effect each other.  A good GM will make a spirit manifest before it
can do anything nasty.

Back to the invisiblity thing.  If a spellcaster goes astral and spots
the invisiblity spell in astral space.  It should be quite obvious.  then
I let the spellcaster target the the invisiblity spell for grounding
purposes.

Does anyone else allow this ruling?

>The magician can assense all spirits, magical creatures, and so on,
>whether they are visible in the physical world or not.  If the
>magician has a spell that affects astral space, [FE: he may cast
>it], [SE: it may be cast.]  [FE:  (any Mana spell will work)].

I hope the interpretation I gave above about a spirt needs to manifest to
use it's abilities will help here.  Fair is fair after all, If I have to
go astral to get the spirit.  It should have to manifest to get me!

Joe Carl Jr

--
Joe Carl Jr.               "It ain't what a man don't know that makes him a
jcarl@jabba.ess.harris.com   fool, but what he does know that ain't so."
                                                           -- Josh Billings
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: flindholm@mta.ca
Subject: Shadowrun Questions -- Auras and Spells
Reply-To: flindholm@mta.ca
Organization: Mount Allison U, Sackville, N.B. Canada 
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 18:32:55 GMT

I go with the idea from the Riggers Blackbook, that inanimate objects 
have their own simple auras. These auras do not block things in astral
space because they are simply not strong enough. Living things have 
life energy flowing through them, making them solid. Inanimate objects
in our game get there faint auras from the intrinsic life that powers
the earth. This is why more natural objects like wooden chairs are easy
to effect with magic. They have a close bond to the life energy in the
world and so have a strong inanimate aura. Things like computers are
highly processed and have had almost all of the "life" taken out of them.
This means they have almost no connection to the mystical life energy in
the world and thus have very faint auras, making them very hard to effect
with magic.

         Cyrus
From: torbenm@diku.dk (Torben AEgidius Mogensen)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Palladium/WotC Lawsuit--How You Can Help
Date: 18 Dec 92 11:38:44 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, U of Copenhagen

mavra@cpac.washington.edu (Peter D. Adkison) writes:

>Several people have asked me what they can do to help.  First of all,
>I really appreciate these offers--it warms my heart that in the short
>time we've been in this industry (TPO came out in April) we've been
>able to gain such strong support from the gaming enthusiasts we've
>always wanted to serve.

>Things you can do to help:

[several suggestions deleted]

I think another useful help would be to find precendents. Someone
mentioned unlicensed D&D supplements. I seem to recall that some RPGs
have conversion notes about how to convert characters from other
systems (in particular (A)D&D) to their own. I think Fantasy Hero at
least had this. I don't know if the new Hero system does. The very
best would, of course, be if you could find an example of Palladium
Games doing this.

	Torben Mogensen (torbenm@diku.dk)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: tgt33358@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Thanatos)
Subject: Re: Werewolf-the Apocalypse
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 09:33:45 GMT

In article <BzEyoD.871@news.cso.uiuc.edu> irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Brent Irvine) writes:
>In article <1992Dec16.095623.21277@tdb.uu.se> y91moe@tdb.uu.se (Mattias Oestklint) writes:
>>
>>Gimme some input on this one, please! (Werewolf)
>>
>I just picked up a copy, but havent but skimmed it.  Looks really cool
>[I would say cooler even than Vampire! :)=], but the NET is suprisingly
>*quiet* about it...
>
>Is it *that* unpopular?  
Well, the White Wolf rep on the Vampire mailing list finally got around to 
playing the game he wrote about a month after it came out, and was quite 
surprised to notice how much werewolves kick vampire tail, hands down.
Totally.  COmpletely.  So much so, that he suggested SCRAPPING the werewolf
system, and running out to get Vampire 2nd edition, solely for the combat
system.  Oops.
	My main problem is merely setting.  I've worked hard to create a 
Machiavellian atmosphere, perfectly condusive for V:TM, but very bad in W:TA.
I suppose the intent of the two games comes into play.  VTM is a game of
_personal_ horror, with humans giving in to basest desires, and becoming
a monster, and WTA is a game of _Savage_ horror, with the horror conferred
by genes, and not by moral judgement.
	Make no mistake:  I LOVE the way garou are displayed, but only find
them useful in relation to other creatures, such as how they deal with
the other four World of Darkness areas.  But as a stand alone, it just doesn't
run very well. 

-- 
I don't mind being the smartest	    / Thanatos, DeathUrge, Master of Unknown
man in the world...I just wish it   \ Time and Space tgt33358@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu 
wasn't this one...	       	    / It's a Zen thing... 
	-Ozymandias 		    \	 you wouldn't understand...  
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: woodhams@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Michael Woodhams)
Subject: Re: T$R Newest "Product"
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University Observatory
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 21:10:10 GMT

In article <BzFKFB.2Cv@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> hall@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Robert J. Hall) writes:
>cadams@afterlife.ncsc.mil (Arthur C. Adams) writes:
> > A Hardbound version of the 1993 Catalog.
>
>Groan. How does this company stay in business? (They'll probably sell 100,000
>copies as well... :-(

Even better than that. In a few years they will have so many catalogs
out that they can stop producing games at all, and just print catalogs
of catalogs. (Such as the "Catalog of TSR Catalogs that don't list
themselves.")

Michael W.

Xref: sparky rec.games.frp.misc:10126 rec.games.frp.dnd:7640