From: phantom@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (James Choi)
Subject: Re: Beating, seriously speaking.
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 00:40:24 GMT

In article <1igqtoINN4oh@menudo.uh.edu> wjin@cs.uh.edu (W. Woody Jin) writes:
>I was also in high school from early to mid 70's.  But I feel that
>your description is a little bit more exaggerated (maybe different
>from school to school and teacher to teacher).

This topic is not new to sck.  When I talked about this last time, a netter
e-mailed me her story.  She studied outside Korea in her elementary school
years and she started middle school in Korea.  One day she was beaten in
front of the class, the usual routine stuff for the rest of them.  But she
was paralized in shock.  It was an unbearable humiliation that she could
not cope with.  She remained in shock for the rest of the day.

Each person sees and takes beating differently.  Maybe we were both treated
about the same.  But I took it to my heart.  Maybe I was beaten once a week
only.  But I still remember what I felt.

>>I was tutoring, I had plenty of those talking back to me.  I am happy to
>>say that I convinced most of them (I quit on "the rest") to do what I want
>>them to do by reasoning, not by force.
>
>It is mostly "the rest" who are beaten, since the teachers think that
>such students lack reasoning and they show too much enthusiasm to corret
>those students by beating.  They call it, "Beating of Love"

Yes.  Other than a few periodic "collective punishment" where everyone gets
beaten to be "straightened," most people who are beaten are the "rest of
them."

This is going off tangent.  But I would like to trigger some response by
stating that the "rest" will remain the "rest" by and large.  And all that
80% of the effort (mostly physical) that goes to correct these 2% "rests"
could be redirected to provide more non-physical care for the mainstream.

I do not think anyone can be straightened out by beating.  They just remain
with the "rest" except now they are beaten and bitter.

>I don't want to discuss the validity of "SarangEui Mae", which I'll leave it
>to education majors.

Well, I just did. :)  I wonder what other people think of the merit of
corporal punishment.  It is obvious that you never see "stay in school"
posters on the street in Korea.  Does that have to do with the corporal
punishment?  I think school will become even more violent if beating is
introduced in the U.S.  Certainly more than a few teachers will be shot.
 
>  But according to my wife who had been teaching in
>a high school for 5 years,  beating is almost gone now.

Nice to hear.  Good things come after I graduate. :(

>I served the mandatory army for 2yr and 3 months and was beaten there ( 8-( ).
>But I don't agree that army was the place where fist was stronger than 
>reasoning (rather it is a special place where bullet is stronger than
>reasoning  8-) ).

I agree that army has no room for individualism.  And discipline has to
have the higest priority by any means.  So, I will leave the army out of
this discussion.

>I strongly oppose that high school was such place.

I gained this perspective because I went to high school in two different
cultures.  The second half of my high school years was spent in a nice
school where you can argue to corner your principal who came to your class
to scold the classes bad manners.  In Korea, you do not even THINK about
challenging the authority.  That's why it seems peaceful.

>>But it is true that children imitate what they see.  They are only doing
>>upon the others what was done upon them through out their tender years.
>>
>>Sad.
>
>Children may imitate (in fact, my kid doesn't imitate if she doesn't THINK
>what she sees is right), but when they grow up and have abilities 
>of good reasoning, they will throw out what they imitated wrong.
>Nobody remains as child.  

Before we state that Mang-ja's mother moved three times for nothing, I
agree with your statement above.  The thing is how can a child think what
is right or wrong if they grew up in it.  Where do all the juvenile
deliquents come from in the U.S.?  I dare to say that any child growing in
that environment that breeds crime is likely to become one.  A child
growing being beaten, and seeing someone being beaten, is just as likely to
do the same.  Because they THINK it is O.K.

There has been many creative and lewd interpretations to the old saying
"women should be beaten every third day."  Even as a metaphor, I would say,
it is too cruel.  And those who lacks cretivity or DSB (deadly sperm
build-up) to interpret this old proverb otherwise, may actually follow the
advice.

>And when you graduate from high school or retire from military service, 
>you are no longer such a child who imitates bad things.

Your fist is stronger, and have less people to stop you.  You are an
example that children follow.  Granted, there are two sides of the same
coin.  I heard that during Korean war, American POW in North Korea was
dying of diaria from the food they got.  Meanwhile, some nation's POW were
actually gaining weight from the same food.

Another questions that comes to my mind is "why so much on what children
watches on TV?"  According to your statement above, TV should have no
effect.

>So, be glad ( 8-) ).

Sincerely, I wish I could.

James Choi
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean