HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: troyer@mitre.org (Tom Royer)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: Editing on Computer or Hardcopy
Date: 8 Sep 92 15:14:57 GMT
Organization: The MITRE Corporation

In article <Bu23Ls.CAs@unx.sas.com> saslpo@stevens.unx.sas.com (Len 
Olszewski) writes:
> You can make non-destructive suggestions on
> hard-copy that you can see, juxtaposed with the original text, and have
> discussions and make judgements until you decide what's the best thing
> to do. It's very difficult to indicate proposed changes
> non-destructively in a text file. Once you make a change, there it is.

I agree.  I edit hardcopy just to keep my klutzy fingers away from the 
keyboard until I've thought about the changes for a while.  I might consider editing  "typos" on-line, but the temptation to make substantive (and usually
ill-considered) changes is too strong.

--
Tom Royer
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: "glenn devlin" <glenn.devlin@canrem.com>
Subject: screenwriting
Reply-To: "glenn devlin" <glenn.devlin@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: misc
Date: 13 Sep 92 21:20:01 EST

RC>I have been trying to learn about screenwriting lately and I just discovered
RC>this newsgroup, and I want to say I have learned as much from reading
RC>10-15 articles on here as I did from the goofy scriptwriting books for
RC>which I paid $7.95. This leads to my first question: what do you read
RC>after Syd Field's standard book? I skimmed through three others and they
RC>seemed almost exactly the same.
 Hello, Robert - that's great that you have read Syd Field's book
and also, have you read his book the Workshop book? They look the same
but this one contains exercises. Without Syd Field's book, I would not
have gotten nominated for my script "Wrath of the Dragon," back in 1988
in the Nissan Focus Competition. Other books I recommend are:
 "Writing Screenplays that sell" - Michale Hauge
 "Selling your screenplay" Cynthia Whitcomb - a good read.
 "Screenwriting," Richard Walter (The art, craft, and business
   of film and television writing.) Quite good.
 Selling a Screenplay by Syd Field is also a good indept 
   approach for those wanting to get into the market.
 And last, may I recommend Linda Seegers' book "Making a good
   script great." 
 Hope all this helps....


RC>I think what I most need to know is how writers do their top-down work. that
RC>is, suppose you have a general idea of what is going to happen in a scene
RC>and what characters are in it. How do you go from that do the specifics?
RC>Do writers sometimes roleplay their characters to come up with dialogue?
RC>I wish the screenwriting books I'd read had more about specifics about this.

 Hmmm. Every time I stuck with the developement of a character, I'll
take a good long walk and invent imaginary conversations in my head for
the specific character. Since I'm deaf, dialogue is difficult for me to
come by, but with the aid of close captioning, it has proven to be a 
benefit. I'll rope play my characters a bit before putting them down on
the computer. one of my favorite ways to pick up "character" is to walk
through malls or aiports and look at people - the way they walk, gesture,
look, etc. A character speaking also reflects his attidue...

RC>Can someone tell me what Robert Towne did to the Godfather?

 I dunno this one...I thought Mario Puzo scripted the Godfather..

 Cheers, Glenn
---
  DeLuxe 1.12 #9662  Connected to the BBS at 2400 baud, NOT!
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Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario, Canadas
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: thigpen@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov (Keith Thigpen)
Subject: Desktop Publishing, Fonts, and Submissions
Keywords: desktop publishing fonts submissions
Organization: NASA/MSFC
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 15:02:57 GMT

There was a thread a while ago that addressed the issue of font selection,
(actually the entire issue of dressing up a submission using DTP). At the 
time I was unable to get to the net but saw some of the subject lines.

Is is standard to use Courier font? I hope not. It may be readable, but it
seems so, uh... pedestrian. 

Anyway, what were the conclusions of this thread?
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Keith Thigpen          thigpen@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov      (205)461-4936   |
| New Technology, Inc.   Marshall Space Flight Center     Huntsville, AL   |
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: "glenn devlin" <glenn.devlin@canrem.com>
Subject: screenwriting
Reply-To: "glenn devlin" <glenn.devlin@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: misc
Date: 13 Sep 92 21:20:01 EST

>This leads to my first question: what do you read
>after Syd Field's standard book? I skimmed through three others and they
>seemed almost exactly the same.

OB>You buy or borrow ten scripts, read them, summarize and analyze in terms
OB>of what you've learned so far.  What are the plot points?  How many
OB>scenes in acts 1/2/3?  Outline the subplots.  Was this an action movie?
OB>Well, in that case, how many pages were really devoted to slam-bang action?
OB>Probably fewer than you expected.  Then, for each script, make a list of
OB>clever devices you found, figure out what maked you like this character
OB>and dislike that one.  Why didn't you really mind when XYZ got killed off?
OB>Etc., etc., etc.

 I'll add my etc's here. If anyone is interested in purchasing
scripts, they can be ordered from:

 Script City
 1765 North Highland Avenue, Suite 760
 Hollywood, California  90028

   Ph: 1 (213) 871-0707

Cheers, Glenn
---
  DeLuxe 1.12 #9662  Annie, go get my computer.
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario, Canadas
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: bufort@remus.rutgers.edu (Anthony Bufort)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: On: Karen and Ross Reports (and anyone else interested)...
Date: 15 Sep 92 01:29:18 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.


  I'm trying to secure a sample copy of the most recent
Ross Reports from the following address:

      Television Index, Inc.
      150 Fifth Avenue
      New York, NY 10011

  Hope this helps!

-Tony
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: NETOPRSS@ncsuvm.cc.ncsu.edu
Subject: Bursting about plotlines...
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 22:58:36 GMT

 
I'm lucky in that I have net access, there are always people around to tell
who killed the alien and who is the father of whom...:)  But I find the same
thing, that immediately before and after I write a piece of interest to me
it's all I can think of, and other people are kind of optional.
 
   What advice do any of you have for someone who's switching gears? From
writing children's books to sci-fi type novels?  My publisher handles
both, but clearly it's an entirely new mindset.  Any rule anyone can give
me to set in stone in my head? A kind of guardrail for the brain? :)
 
   One mroe thing.  Writers. the ones that don't starve and die anyway, seem
to be always part of one thing in society.  The opinino leaders.  The way
we think, act, dress, and conceptualize the world is forming it.  While
we may hold ourselves from society, in some ways we are more intermeshed
than ever. And often we change the ways people think,,act, and dress without
necessarily intending to.  What ethics are required to be elligible to shape
the coming generation?  Just something to slepp on tonight....
 
                                         Sue
From: bf455@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Bonita Kale)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: Editing on Computer or Hardcopy
Date: 5 Sep 1992 10:44:09 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc4.ins.cwru.edu




In a previous article, curtis@cs.berkeley.edu (Curtis Yarvin) says:

>In article <1992Sep2.180831.25822@gallant.apple.com> chuq@gallant.apple.com (Chuq Von Rospach) writes:
>>thomas@datamark.co.nz (Thomas Beagle) writes:
>>
>>>I used to say that I could never edit on a computer screen.
>>
>>On a psychological level, you're only seeing small chunks of the text.
>
>Get a bigger monitor and an editor that does columns right.
>
>With a good 17" monitor you can fit more text on a screen than
>a piece of paper.  It costs a heap, but it's worth it.


This could be a help, but not enough of one, I think.  I usually edit all I
can onscreen.  Then I print it out and find out what I missed.  (But I
usually go through the printout(s) several times, too.)

Seems to me the eye movements for reading onscreen are so different from
those for reading on paper that you lose the feeling of naturalness
or comfortableness you're striving for.  The whole thing is uncomfortable,
so you are (or at least, I am) less likely to notice the little jolt of a
mistake or an awkwardness.

However, if there's any amount of rewriting to be done--if anything
as large as a paragraph, or even a long sentence, needs recasting--I just
mark "recast" in the margin.  Then I take care of it when I'm back
onscreen, because I have an awful time doing actual writing by hand.



Bonita Kale
From: bf455@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Bonita Kale)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: Creativity space-out
Date: 5 Sep 1992 10:51:59 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc4.ins.cwru.edu




In a previous article, ojvind@plato.cns.caltech.edu (Ojvind Bernander) says:
...

>I just had a spate of creativity today and cranked out
>1300 words, nearly finishing a short story.  I've found
>that after spending a couple of ours deeply involved in
>my world, I find it hard to socialize.  That's right.
>I'll go to a bbq and my story will be the foremost thing
>on my mind, and I can't really say, "Hey, Albert, guess
>what, Harmon killed the tentactled alien only to find
>that it was his father in disguise!"  In other words,
>a period of introvertedness usually follows.
>
>So, is this just me, or what?  It makes we wonder about my
>dreams to become a great writer...


Hey, what's wrong with introvertedness?  That's my life you're talking
about! 

Really, I think everyone, even you extroverts, must experience this.  Next
time you meet a parent who brings his/her children into every conversation,
you'll have more empathy, right?

The only cure I know is to ask the other people questions about -their-
lives, and listen to their answers.  They'll think you're a fascinating
person to talk to.  And you'll learn all sorts of useful stuff.

Bonita Kale  
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: nigel@ietech.demon.co.uk ("Nigel G. Backhurst")
Subject: Publisher production times 
Distribution: world
Organization: IE Technical Services Holland
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 18:02:01 +0000


In article <1992Sep07.081951.5496@sco.COM> charless@sco.COM writes:

>
>
>I heard from my editor last Friday to the effect that my first
>novel, which I was made an offer for in March this year, will not
>now be published until March-April 1994. Aside from the obvious
>(why does it TAKE so LONG?), this leads me to ask; is it my
>imagination, or is the lead time on the midlist growing longer
>for everyone? I'm not the only author I know who this has happened
>to. It used to be twelve months from contract to publication, but
>now it's stretching to two, two-and-a-half years.
>
>Does anyone have any insight on this?
>
>
I have noticed the same with non-fiction books.  My first took
just under 4 months from acceptance of final manuscript to
publication, the same for the second.  The third took nearly
8 months and the last over a year.  The delay seems to have
increased since they brought all the typesetting, etc., in house
to save costs.

The take over of small publishing companies by the giants has
not helped either. You no longer have the situation where one
person is responsible for your book all the way through the
publishing process.

Nigel
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Nigel Backhurst ( nigel@ietech.demon.co.uk )
c/o 88 Ashburton Road, Hugglescote, Coalville, LE6 2LX, U.K.
p/a IE Technical Services Holland, Deventerstr 150, 7321 CE Apeldoorn
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: ren@Turing.ORG (Karen Prestemon)
Subject: Re: Publishing Children's Books?
Organization: The Turing Project, Charlottesville Virginia.
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 15:52:14 GMT


I am the original poster about Publishing Children's Books. 

I asked if anyone knew in what *format* should one submit text and
illustrations for a children's book, not novel (I guess I should have made
that clear).  POsters have responded with "This is very hard, don't be so
hasty!" and now everyone is arguing about *real* writing.

Does anyone know the answer to my original question?  I mean, would I send
slides of the paintings to a publisher, or what?

Please email, this is getting out of control!

--Karen
From: mapd1@syma.sussex.ac.uk (Nigel Ling)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: Publishing Children's Books?
Date: 10 Sep 92 16:51:44 GMT
Organization: University of Sussex

In article <BuD751.G6B@unx.sas.com> saslpo@stevens.unx.sas.com (Len Olszewski) writes:
>
>Let's not sell Graham Greene short (though I'm sure Marcy wasn't doing
>that). Producing quality work across many different genres is a talent I
>can only envy. Anybody who does this deserves some special recognition.
>I suspect Greene would have a few things to say about being mentioned as
>a dilettante who once dabbled in unimportant children's literature
>(where writing is so *easy*), only to later become serious and
>successful (though I know the original poster didn't mean it this way,
>either). Either that, or he wouldn't have cared at all.

Quite right, I didn't mean it that way. Greene must have written his
childrens stuff very late in life. What I know of him, he probably
wrote them in response (semi-reluctant?) to requests to tell his
grandchildren stories ("You're a writer aren't you?")
I certainly wouldn't sell him short though. For my money Graham Greene
is amongst the best (and also my inspiration). However, I very much
suspect that he would not have called his children's work 'serious',
as he distinguished his 'entertainments' from 'serious novels'.

I say this as a matter of general interest, before someone flames me
for doing down childrens writing.

Nigel
From: bf455@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Bonita Kale)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: Publisher production times
Date: 12 Sep 1992 10:28:22 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc4.ins.cwru.edu




In a previous article, charless@sco.COM (charles stross) says:

>
>I heard from my editor last Friday to the effect that my first 
>novel, which I was made an offer for in March this year, will not 
>now be published until March-April 1994.




Congratulations!  Congratulations!  Congratulations!


Now for something to make us all weep.  I have a book of C.S. Lewis
letters out of the library.  In December of 1932, he writes to thank his
friend Arthur Greeves for agreeing to look over the manuscript of
-Pilgrim's Regress-.  In February of 1933, he says the book has been
accepted, with some disagreement about what revisions are needed.  The book
was published in May, 1933! 

Sigh.

Bonita Kale
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: ren@Turing.ORG (Karen Prestemon)
Subject: Publishing Children's Books?
X-Disclaimer-1: This posting contains the opinion of an individual and does
X-Disclaimer-2: not necessarily reflect the policy of The Turing Project.
Organization: The Turing Project, Charlottesville Virginia.
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 18:56:20 GMT



I am kind of tossing the idea of writing and illustrating a children's book
around...  Anyone know if what kind of formats illustrations and such are
submitted to publishing companies?  I'd appreciate it if persons of experience
could email me!

--Karen
From: miuvdd@lure.latrobe.edu.au
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: Creativity space-out
Date: 7 Sep 92 02:14:22 GMT
Organization: VAX Cluster, Computer Centre, La Trobe University

> In a previous article, ojvind@plato.cns.caltech.edu (Ojvind Bernander) says:
> 
>>I just had a spate of creativity today and cranked out
>>1300 words, nearly finishing a short story.  I've found
>>that after spending a couple of ours deeply involved in
>>my world, I find it hard to socialize.  That's right.
>>I'll go to a bbq and my story will be the foremost thing
>>on my mind, and I can't really say, "Hey, Albert, guess
>>what, Harmon killed the tentactled alien only to find
>>that it was his father in disguise!"  In other words,
>>a period of introvertedness usually follows.
>>
>>So, is this just me, or what?  It makes we wonder about my
>>dreams to become a great writer...

I can relate to this in a major way.  I could very easily become
a social hermit if it were not for the fact that I have a very
understanding husband who draggs me away from the computer, and
outside into the sunlight occassionally! :)

While I still think that it does me good to socialize occassionally
(and I used to be such a social animal! :), I am a lot more
paricular now with how I spend my time. Simply because there is
never enough of it.

So, know, it's not just you.  But hey, hang in there.  It's worth it.


Morgana

********************************************************************
Reality is for People who can't handle Decent Fiction...
********************************************************************
From: mapd1@syma.sussex.ac.uk (Nigel Ling)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: Publishing Children's Books?
Date: 9 Sep 92 12:57:36 GMT
Organization: University of Sussex

In article <1992Sep8.093720.26059@reed.edu> ehudon@reed.edu (Elizabeth Hudon) writes:
..
>
>It often seems that writers of children's books aren't taken seriously
>as writers--as though it was a step on the way to becoming a "real"
>writer. (There's even a branch of feminist theory which argues that
>women writers were pushed to write children's fiction because it was
>easier to do than "serious" writing.)

All you potential children's writers out there might be interested to
know that Graham Greene wrote 3 or so children's stories. One is
called The Little Red Fire Engine I believe. Now you could never
accuse him of not being a serious writer.

Nigel
From: kja2192@tamsun.tamu.edu (Kevin Alexander)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: A question about ms's.
Date: 16 Sep 1992 02:22:37 GMT
Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station


It sure is good to see this newsfeed, I've been looking for this (or
something like this) for over a week. I have a question for you mega-
novelists-to-be concerning style for manuscript submissions. Is it ac-
ceptable for your novel, story, or whatever to switch from first per-
son to third througout? I am writing what I think could be a good sto-
ry (then again who here would say they're writing a bad one?) but I
have come to a point fairly early on that I feel the need to start al-
ternating between first and third person. I ask this because I hear my
high school teacher in the back of my head saying "No, no, no."

How big or small of a novel's submission are editors looking for?
80,000 words? 100,000? I ask this because many of the paperbacks out
there seem to all be approximately equivalent in size 300-350pp.

Your comments are greatly appreciated.


--
Kevin Alexander
Texas A&M University
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: adamsd@crash.cts.com (Adams Douglas)
Subject: Re: Editing on Computer or Hardcopy
Date: 12 Sep 92 02:29:57 GMT

In <H6eqqB1w164w@glnserv.UUCP> jerryn@glnserv.UUCP (Jerry Norris) writes:
>Writing is a personal thing in most instances.  Because of that, we all
>have things that we feel comfortable with; ways of doing things which
>cause the creative beast within to stir and do things to words, phrases,
>etc.  I, personally, cannot stand to write on anything but a monitor and
>keyboard.  I find that I can do my editing on a computer as well.  But it
>doesn't mean that everyone can.  I feel more comfortable using my word
>processor (actually, they must be worderators.  Right?) than usin

You're quite correct. I would not have thought I would be getting money
as a writer when I was in college, since I _hated_ correcting stuff in 
an electric typewriter. I learned to plan ahead so I never turned in
anything but a first draft with a few white-outs over typos. When computers
came along, I found out that I could write and enjoy it and make money
at it.

On the flip side, my SO is a law librarian with an MS in Information Science
and is completely computer literate, but she has been writing friends and
relations fifteen-page letters in longhand since she was seven. She does her
letters on the computer, prints them, reviews them and makrs them up. She
then goes back to the computer to put in the corrections. And she
may go through this whole process again several times. I cannot even 
conceive of printing anything unless it's about to go into the
envelope. But she finds it more comfortable to look at paper and be
able to scribble on it. We both work in our own way, and I suspect this is
a good example for the rest of the writers. There is no right way, just
whatever you are comfortable with.
From: miuvdd@lure.latrobe.edu.au
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: Proud to be a writer (Was Children's Publishing)
Date: 10 Sep 92 03:08:20 GMT
Followup-To: misc.writing
Organization: VAX Cluster, Computer Centre, La Trobe University

> 
> The truth is, respect or no, I'd rather be a writer than anything else
> I can imagine.  

Ditto.


Morgana
************************************************************************
Reality is for people who can't handle decent fiction...
************************************************************************
From: gt0299d@prism.gatech.EDU (Curtis N. Sayre)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Looking for info on a publisher
Date: 6 Sep 92 18:55:53 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

Hi!  I'm looking for some information on a publishing company owned(?) by
a British family by the name of Arter.  I have no clue what they publish, or
even how large this publisher is, so any help is appreciated.  If this isn't the"correct" newsgroup for this question, would some kind soul out there direct me to that "correct" newsgroup.

Thanks

Curt

-- 
Curtis N. Sayre
Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
uucp:	  ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt0299d
Internet: gt0299d@prism.gatech.edu
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: nadeau@bnr.ca (Rheal Nadeau)
Subject: Re: Publishing Children's Books?
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 03:52:50 GMT

Is children's writing "serious"?

Well, in my response to the query that started this thread, I said
aspiring writers should read the books that are being published.  This
is advice I have taken, much to my pleasure - I just finished Peter
Pan, not because I need to "do my research", but because I've found
that these books are very good, and very fun to read.

I should reread "Where the Wild Things Are":  "The night Max wore his
wolf suit and made mischief of one kind..."  Good stuff!

The Rhealist - Rheal Nadeau - nadeau@bnr.ca - Speaking only for myself
From: bufort@remus.rutgers.edu (Anthony Bufort)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: In Answer To Glenn...
Date: 15 Sep 92 20:19:37 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.


 No, Glenn, I haven't gotten anything through
yet...so far, I'm just working on stuff, and I
haven't sent anything to anyone.  I was, and
still am kinda, interested in writing for TV,
but I'm looking more towards films now.

-Tony