From: west@ponder.csci.unt.edu (Bruce West)
Subject: Re: Oh my God! Help my friend not buy an IBM!
Organization: University of North Texas, Denton
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 10:46:30 GMT

>>In article <1992Nov9.200117.27089@cs.olemiss.edu>, skip@cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls) writes:
>
>>	So your point is, Clones are good if you want to get work done
>>but to play with multimedia which very very few people use, the Amiga
>>is great?

   I cannot strees the following point enough.  The amiga is an infinitely
more *productive* machine than an IBM.  On my fully decked A3000 I am 
constantly downloading, while I am doing my long compiles, during these
compiles I touch up my notes, during which time I am doing whatever calculations
need to be done for lab.  In addition I'm sometimes rendering some stuff
to check out later.  In an hour I can get more different things done than
someone can on any IBM.  I don't know what system you have so I'll assume
a fully decked 486/50.

>
>>	First of all, I am an EE major with a computer systems engineering
>>specialty (meaning in our EE program I took the CSE option).  I use this
>>machien (my clone) to do engineering projects and programming primarily.
>>However, I also like to listen to musion it for fun (rather listeten
>>to the radio still), play games, do a lot of telecommunications with it.

   I'm a CS major, so I know what you spend your time on you computer doing.
Amiga is awesome for C programming (*the* language).  And, as I said, you
can remain productive during some more of the menial tasks of life.

>>	I have not seen an Amiga (500,2000,3000) that can even come close
>>to what I can do on this in terms of animation, multitasking, and
>>raw computing power.  I give the Amigas the edge on sound as you said,
>>my sound blaster pro is a match (in my opinion) for the Amiga but
>>every multimedia program ever made for the Amiga supports its sound,
>>the same can not be said for the sound blaster.  Of course, I don't
>>use Windows for animation since it is obviously very poor at it. 

    Still assuming you the have the afore mentioned system.  First, Amiga
blows away the sound blaster pro card - but screw sound...it's not really
important.  The 030 beats the 386, the 040 beats the 486 - fact.  The mz.
rating on the motorolla chips is about 15% faster than the comprapable
Intel chip.  Amiga techies - come back me up  here.  So that is your
"raw computing power".  
    Now your reference to animation and multitasking is laughable!  The Amiga
*is* multitasking.  The IBM does *NOT* premtive multitask - period.  The
IBM does not use special coprocessors - period.  To name a few of the
revolutionary video and animation devices for Amiga only.... one word,
Toaster.  In terms of 24 bit hi-res scientific analysis check out thenew
GVP card.

> 
>>	By the way, what is "Cutting" edge to an Amiga user?  Multimedia?

    The cutting edge of computers is pretty well-defined.  Integrated systems.
Multimedia, Virtual Reality, user-friendly, object oriented, whatever you
wanna call it.  It's the quest for the "unifying theory of computing" if you
will.  Some system so incredible it will permeate all walks of life.

>>	I think perhaps our difference in opinion is lack of experience.
>>It appears you haven't spent a lot of time with IBMs equipped to the max
>>and I will concede that I probably haven't seen Amigas equipped to the
>>max.  I will say this however, this machine here is certainly superior
  
   I'm at an IBM campus.  I use 486s everyday.  I am forced to program on
them in many classes, including the asm level.  So I think I understand
the machine and it's capabilities.  The more you learn the more you wonder
how Intel ever sold a chip with such backward thinking.  3 generations of
chips to get to flat memory - Christ!

>>to any amiga I have used in terms of speed, workablity, graphics,
>>and multitasking.  I am not familiar with that Amiga 1200 and I have
>>not used teh Amiga 4000 however.  Keep in mind though, you can buy
>>machines like mine now for under $2000.

   You don't have one of those hacked up 486s do you?  Now those are sad.
Can you say bottleneck?  Waste of power?  knew ya could.  4000 blows away
all the current clone PCs and IBM OSs.               

>>	And before you go out and call IBM users "lame" or "boring"
>>or wahtever.  Think how you feel when IBm users come on and say "Go
>>play with your lamo toy."  I know most Amiga users get quite offended
>>when somene wrongly calls the Amiga a "toy".  To call IBMs "lame"

   I'll be the first to concede that IBM has much better wp and spreadsheet
software.  But then again there arn't alot of video title out for BetaCam -
but I don't think production studios are gonna sell theirs ;)  That's how
IBM get's it's "boring" reputation...as well as the lack of decent animation.
And the Amiga gets it "toy" image for the same reasoin - great sound and
graphics.

>>and basing it on the old IBM XT or something (which you didn't do but
>>you have seen it on this conference) is pretty offensive too.  Unless
>>someone here happens to have an IBM compatible with 16 megs of ram,
>>OS/2 2.01, Coprocessed 24bit video and also has an Amiga, I don't think
>>people should say that the Amiga "blows" away clones as a general
>>statement.  There are too many clones out there with too many options.
>>One could say "Amigas blow away the typical clone setup." and I wouldn't
>>argue with that.

    I say Amiga blows away clones because the Amiga can do anything a clone
can do - and more.  With any option.  You add a 24 bit card - I'll add a
better 24 bit card.  You add a sound card, I'll add a DSP.  You get OS/2  
I have AmigaDos3.0.  Every step of the way I win.  That's my point.
    Besides, I must make an ideological point - since you are a EE. The
Amiga has and always will be the "hackers" computer in my view (hacker in
the true sense of the word).  Much like my old Apple ][+.  Anyone
remember double-hi-res on the Apple.  We just pulled it out of our ass!
That's the type of machine the Amiga is.  The Toaster, where the hell does
a product like that come from and cost under a k to make?!?  AmigaLand.
The Amiga is a computer of potential and product.  The users take it
to its limits.  You buy a Mac, you have a mac, that's it.  You buy a clone,
you have an Intel chip surrounded by the cheapest parts guys like me and you
could find - all put together.  You buy an Amiga (later models), you have
a streamlined, NTSC compatable (big plus for CS graphics),premtive     
multitasking system with the most creative consumers (hackers).  These hackers
are the real key to Amigas success and will be the key to its continued
success.

>>							-Brad

Ciao....

                                                              - Jason



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