HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ez008333@hamlet.ucdavis.edu (Boris Teksler)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: WANTED ENGINE AND INFORMATION ABOUT POWER BOATS
Date: 6 Sep 92 07:45:40 GMT
Organization: Computing Services, UC Davis

Hi,
	I'm new to the boating scene and have a few questions.  I just 
purchased a Chrysler ski boat (12') with a trailer.  I need an engine for
it and the boat is ready to go.  I'd appreciate any advice for a new 
comer to this field.  Please email directly to my account.  

Questions
1)  Do I need insurance for San Francisco Bay and / or  lakes?
2)  What's a good cheap insurance company?
3)  What would be a decent hp engine just enought to go about 15-20 mph
4)  Does anyone have a spare 25-40 hp engine for sale(O/B)??


      ____________________________    _____________________________
    _[                            ]  [                             ]_
   [ [        Boris Teksler       ]  [ ez008333@hamlet.ucdavis.edu ] ]
   [ [____________________________]  [_____________________________] ]
   [____________________________]      [_____________________________]
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: jrm@cbnews.cb.att.com (john.r.miller)
Subject: Re: Jib furling systems
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 14:09:21 GMT
Summary: try flexible furler

In article <1992Sep6.122851.10139@morrow.stanford.edu>, francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir) writes:
> Dan Frenette writes:
> 
> 	rheinze@lrc.edu:
> 
> 		Are [jib furling systems] overkill on a small cruiser?
> 
> 	No they are not, but you may not need a Profurl or a Harken to 
> 	get the job done on such a small boat.  I would go to a good 
> 	surplus boat store and get one of the older models that roll on 
> 	a head stay.  Then put a head stay in you large sail.  This will 
> 	mean you only need 2 attachment points.  One for the roller at 
> 	the head and one for the drum.  
> 
> Could you be more specific about "older models"? Names? As I have indicated,
> for my boat I have no choice but to use a headstay arrangement, since my
> Freedom 21 has no standing rigging (hooray!). 
> 
> Francis Muir
> FELIX
> Redwood City

I have a Catalina 22 and put a furling system on called the "flexible furler".
It is very inexpensive -- about 400$ for a C22 and does the job better than
the "luff wire" furler mentioned above. The problem I had with the luff wire
furler was sail shape when partially furled. The flexible furler is not 
perfect in that respect but it is a hell of a lot better. The only downside
I am aware of is handling the system when you are rigging and derigging the
boat. The luff is long and "flexible" and you need two people to manage it.
For lan transport - you strap it to the mast. 

			John Miller

		Catalina 22 #4909 "Tinker Toy"
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: ecf_stbo@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu (Quentin Robert DeNameland)
Subject: sheet bend
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: The Johns Hopkins University - HCF
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 19:35:00 GMT

The bend which is similar to the bowline is the sheet bend which is normally
used instead of a square knot to tie dissimilar diameter lines together. I
think it's a better knot than the square, it's one of my favorite and
most commmonly used knots, regardless of line diameters.

Tom O'Toole - ecf_stbo@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu - JHUVMS system programmer 
Homewood Computing Facilities, Johns Hopkins University, Balto. Md. 21218 
> * OLX 2.1 * ease!Trim!eeeaaaassse!trimtrimTRIMeeeeeeeaaaaaasse!trimea
From: spencer@panix.com (David Spencer)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Electronics legal on racing dinghies?
Date: 9 Sep 92 14:59:30 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC

BRENT W. BENSON writes:

>Although all keelboats seem to have at least a knotmeter, if not a huge array
>of instruments useful for racing,

Now Brent, don't confuse keelboats with cruisers. We one-design
keelboat sailers get cranky about that.

>small dinghies do not (with one exception
>which brings up this question). There is the obvious explanation that a
>battery (heavy) is required, but if your boat is underweight anyway,
>might as well ad electronics as lead. So, does anyone know of any rules
>against such devices on small centerboard boats (i.e. 470's, Lightnings, etc)?

Sonars allow an electronic compass and watches. The compass must
disable all functions other than immediate heading readout and
countdown clock. Hence, no damping, no storage and no decline
calculations. We just switched from a magnetic to a KVH and it's
great, but we had to disable all the toys.  And _no_ knotmeters!

This is a standard rule for one-design keelboats (other than J's); I
think you can use the decline functions on Solings and Etchells. I
don't know about dinghies.

dhs   spencer@panix.com
Newsgroups: rec.boats

I saw a short piece on the TV about the fishermen riding the storm out
at the docks--I've no idea where.  It was difficult to get much idea
of what they all did to survive (they all did) because the reporter
didn't ask any real questions or get any technical answers.  Most time
was spent on a character whose survival technique was to get a couple
of six-packs, lie back on the boat and enjoy it.


Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: davidm@meaddata.com (David Miller)
Subject: Re: Inexperienced boaters
Organization: Mead Data Central, Dayton OH
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 18:31:42 GMT
Distribution: na

In article <1685FA570.EPLUS17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu>, EPLUS17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu (Richard Engelbrecht-Wiggans) writes:
|> >
|> >IMHO, there are alot of people out there who don't know what they
|> >are doing, from the moment they drop the hitch over the ball. I'm
|> >not saying this to sound elitist, it's just that I see more people
|> >do stupid things in one day at the lake than I see the rest of the
|> >week.
|> >
|>  
|> We all got to start somewhere...or has someone figured out how to be
|> born with boating knowledge and experience?
|>  

I learned boat handling as a kid from my dad.  He still has the boat he
got when I was 2.  

I do remember the first time I launched on my own...  Took me all 3 lanes
to back the trailer down!  Luckily, it was a weekday morning, and I didn't
have anybody blocked.  The old fisherman using the 4th lane had a real good
laugh....

-- 
David James Miller                        Architecture&Systems Evolution
Mead Data Central, B6F3                   (513) 865-7441
PO Box 933                                davidm@meaddata.com
Dayton Ohio 45401                         I speak for me, not MDC
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: spencer@panix.com (David Spencer)
Subject: Re: New jibs (was: Awesome sailing last weekend, huh?)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 17:59:26 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC

jfh@cs.brown.edu (John F. Hughes) writes:

>steph@cs.uchicago.edu (Stephen Wilson Bailey) writes:

>> [responding to a Sonar sailor's claim that the new workign jib was a dog]
>>I'd be interested to know what you discover.  I'm deeply curious what
>>makes a sail a dog or a gem.

>I was wondering about that new smaller jib, combined with the large rudder
>described on the Sonar. If the small jib induces greater helm, I'd *expect* it
>to kill you. I don't recall the hull shape of the Sonar, but one question to
>ask is "As I heel, does my center-of-waterplane move to leeward faster than my
>center of effort?" If so, then heeling tends to *reduce* weather helm. 
>This means that going to the small jib means (1) heeling less, increasing
>weather helm, and (2) moving CE aft, increasing weather helm.

Something got dropped in exerpting. I noted in the original that heel
induces weather helm in Sonars and all Sonar jibs are the same size.
The differences between light- and heavy-air jibs are strictly
clothweight and cut. A light-air jib is one cut more full and from
lighter cloth, to give more draft-forward power. Hence it moves CE
forward. We can hike enough to give the boat the same heel (at least
up to roughly 18-20 knots of breeze) with both jibs; so it should only
be a question of CE.

>On Sarah, where I have a big rudder, we reef down the main early on, and stick
>with the 120% jib (the 160 goes down when the winds hit 12-15). We only switch
>to the 90% when (a) we don't care how fast we're going, and feel lazy about
>changing sails, or (b) the winds are strong enough that the 90% and
>double-reefed (or even triple-reefed) main is enough for us---about 30 knots
>windspeed...

>Anyhow, you might try reefing the main with that small jib, and see if it
>perhaps improves your performance.

What's reefing a main? ;-) This is one-design racing! Hike, boys,
hike!

Seriously, all jibs are the same size, so there's no playing with
genny sizes. I can't imagine conditions where we'd race her with a
reef.

dhs      spencer@panix.com
Sonar 404
From: eraffini@lab3.smcm.edu (Eric Raffini)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: need a laser
Date: 9 Sep 92 21:31:16 GMT
Reply-To: eraffini@oyster.smcm.edu

Does anyone out there have a late model (1987 or newer) laser they want to 
sell? I have been looking all over the Annapolis area, and haven't been  
able to turn up anything. Why is it so hard to find these boats? Looking  
for a boat in the District 9, 10 or 11 area. Can't afford to pay over  
$1500. If you know of such a person, please reply by e-mail or by calling  
(301) 862-0812.

Thanks,

Eric Raffini
St. Mary's College of Maryland 
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: AKILPINEN@finabo.abo.fi (Antti Kilpinen, IAMSR)
Subject: Re: Electronics legal on racing dinghies?
Organization: Abo Akademi University, Finland
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 07:21:52 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.20


In <1992Sep9.145930.23195@panix.com> spencer@panix.com writes:

> Sonars allow an electronic compass and watches. The compass must
> disable all functions other than immediate heading readout and
> countdown clock. Hence, no damping, no storage and no decline
                          ^^^^^^^^^^
With the same logic you should disable the hydraulic damping of the magnetic
compasses. 
-antti
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: deering@pixar.com
Subject: What's an appropriate boat for me?
Originator: deering@valkyrie.pixar.com
Organization: Pixar -- Point Richmond, California
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 05:32:55 GMT

So, I've recently learned how to sail a Lido 14 (my club's
training boat), and am seriously hooked. Now I want my own boat:

*  I'd like a used 12-18' trailerable sloop-rigged dinghy in the
   $500-1500 range.

*  I'd like to be able to take my wife and 2 small kids out in it
   occasionally (eventually), but I'd also like to be able to
   have some sailing fun in it (immediately). Not racing fun,
   just more fun than in a Lido, which seems like a bit of a tub
   (no offense, Lido owners!).

*  And it should be somewhat forgiving (read "doesn't tip *too*
   easily").

There's a fair-sized reservoir a couple of miles away, and the
San Francisco Bay (where I learned to sail) isn't much farther.

Now I know there are a ton of racing boats out there, but my
question is: What are the boats that are somewhere in between
training models and racing models in my price range (that are
likely to be available in the SF Bay area)? Secondarily, how
windy does it have to be before I need to worry about special
modifications, like an industrial-strength mast, more reef points
in the sail(s), etc.? (It's fairly windy around here during the
summer.)

Any advice, suggestions, or brain dumps will be most kindly received.

If you'd like to keep this off the net, please email me at
deering@pixar.com

Tom Deering
From: pd@x.co.uk (Paul Davey)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: HEAT - PROPANE OR DIESEL???
Date: 14 Sep 92 19:03:05 GMT
Organization: IXI Ltd.

>>>>> On 11 Sep 92 15:15:48 GMT, danmc@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (daniel.c.mckibben) said:

-> Does anyone have information or experience on the relative costs,
-> heat output, and ease of operation?

My propane system (Alde boiler and radiators) burns alot of gas when
it's cold. Marine diesel is very cheap here in the UK - and the tank
is bigger.

I'd go for a diesel system which can run without electric power.

Ideally get a thermosyphon system will circulate water around the boat
but you'd need the boiler fairly low (and large diameter pipes - but
these save on radiators.)

The vented air Erspbacher (sp?) systems I have seen are very heavy on
battery juice. (10 - 20A draw?) 

The most popular heating method for live aboards here is some kind of
solid fuel stove - cheap and low tech but messy and your polution laws
may effect the fuel you can burn. 

(I'll be burning scrap wood most of this winter.)

-> I plan to have some portable electric heaters on board to provide extra heat
-> if needed, and for when I leave the boat.  

I guess you have mains power then - which might be cheapest - certainly the
most convenient.
--
 Regards,			  pd@x.co.uk           IXI Ltd.
	Paul Davey		  pd@ixi.uucp          62-74 Burleigh St.
				  ...!uunet!ixi!pd     Cambridge,  U.K.
 "These _are_ interesting times"  +44 223 462 131      CB1  1OJ
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: rsw21@cbnewse.cb.att.com (robin.s.wedeman)
Subject: Re: Need advice on small used runabout power boats
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 20:26:59 GMT
Summary: SeaRay opinion
Keywords: Bayliner Capri 1750

In article <1992Sep14.141556.8780@b11.b11.ingr.com>, heller@heller.b11.ingr.com (Anne A. Heller) writes:
> 
info about interest in used Bayliner 1750 Capri and concerns
about Bayliner's integrity/quality deleted for space
> 
> Are there any other caveats particular to Bayliner boats?  Does anyone have
> opinions on SeaRay or Chapparal boats?
> 
> Thanks for your advice,
> 
> -Anne
> --


Anne -

My husband and I began our search for a small ski boat during the spring
Boat shows in 1989.  We were comparing prices of Bayliner, Maxum (sp?),
and SeaRay to name a few.  We also had the opportunity to buy a friend's
used SeaSprite.  After visiting other boat dealers, we finally decided on
a new 1989 SeaRay 160, 100 OB.  BTW - our 160 measures over 17', while the
1992 160's only measure 11'.  Go figure!  Although the Bayliners and Maxums 
were less expensive, we were sold on the quality and workmanship of the SeaRay.

The quality paid off this summer when I was hit broadsided on the driver's
side by a drunken jetskier. That's a story in itself, and if
anyone is interested, I will post it.  No one was injured, but the hull 
kept the jetski from coming through and landing on me.  The hull
had a 5 foot crack, which was repaired, and the boat is more structurally
sound than when it was new.  Although I can't prove it, I feel that if I was 
driving a Bayliner, the outcome wouldn't have been the same.

I wouldn't trade this SeaRay for anything but the new 19' SeaRay SkiRay.

BTW - If you are planning on doing a lot of skiing, barefooting, the
outboards are far superior than I/O's, IMO.

About Bayliners -
A friend of ours has (had) a Bayliner, but prefers to ski with us.  He
swamped his boat the first year, and the second year his outboard fell
off.  Needless to say, he is very hard on his boat - and no, we don't
let him drive ours.

Good luck in your shopping.

Robin
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: gerard@progress.COM (Gerard Bras)
Subject: Re: rebuilding boat refridg. Question
Organization: Progress Software Corp.
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 16:06:17 GMT

billp@voyager.chm.clarkson.edu (Bill Plunkett) writes:

>From article <1992Sep11.194733.23011@progress.com>, by gerard@progress.COM (Gerard Bras):
>> 
>> Sounds like it's propylene glycol.  I think it the basis for current
>> auto antifreeze since ethylene glycol was found to be too toxic.

>Sounds like the first poster is describing a substance that freezes
>(indeed, like the blue ice packs).  It must freeze in order to "store"
>an appreciable amount of "cold," since it has to absorb it's own
>heat of fusion when melting again.  Propylene glycol, on the other
>hand, is an antifreeze.  It may be possible, by adding a small amount,
>to lower the freezing point slightly (better for keeping ice cream
>frozen), but I'll bet the blue ice packs are just water with a die
>added as a gimmick. (Or clear water in blue plastic?)  Does anyone
>know?  They seem to swell just like water when they freeze.

Bet you're right, at least for some of those freezer blocks.  The most
reliable to get rich seems to be to sell water at a high price.  Look
at the soft drink industry.  Using PG it is possible to get a eutectic
mixture but it will freeze at some rediculously low temperature and 
it's lower than your usual home freezer will pull.  This is also a 
problem with holding plates which use PG, they do not maintain an even
tempreature the way brine units will, or at least that's what I've read.
On the plus side, you can make them yourself if you're so inclined.


cheers,
gerard
From: bennett@erich.triumf.ca (P.Bennett)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Splices vs Bends
Date: 9 Sep 92 15:30:00 GMT
Organization: TRIUMF: Tri-University Meson Facility
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Sep9.131028.12680@prl.dec.com>, bonnet@prl.dec.com (Christophe Bonnet) writes...
> 
> The problem is that it's quite impossible to do splices on "modern"
>ropes (polyester ones). In this case (for example, to put a snap hook at
>the end of an halyard), I use another knot, stronger than the bowline.
>The black point is that, after several days of use, this knot is really
>painfull to undo (just like splices, after all). Unfortunately, I don't
>know the English name of that knot.. the french one is "noeud de Capucin".
> 
> 
>      Christophe.
> 

It is actually quite easy to splice double braid line, if you have the
instructions provided by the rope maker (at least the makes of line available
here), and the appropriate (simple) tools.

Peter Bennett VE7CEI                | Vessels shall be deemed to be in sight
Internet: bennett@erich.triumf.ca   | of one another only when one can be
Bitnet:   bennett@triumfer          | observed visually from the other
TRIUMF, Vancouver, B.C., Canada     |                          ColRegs 3(k)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: donr@hpcvcdo.cv.hp.com (Don Reid)
Subject: Re: Splices vs Bends
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 16:55:10 GMT

Strength aside (and I agree that for many small boats strength is not a
major factor), I splice most of my lines because splices don't come loose!

When I cannot splice, I seize the end with whipping twine after tying a knot.

The only exception is my laser where I remove the sheet a lot and so a knot
is handy (plus the class rules are pretty strict).

Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: wes@ian.stx.com (John S.)
Subject: Re: Corrosion question
Organization: STX, Lanham Maryland
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 19:40:06 GMT

In article <1992Sep13.213721.22177@phx.mcd.mot.com> teroach!dbk@phx.mcd.mot.com (Dave Kinzer) writes:
>   I am curious as to whether it is better to leave your seacocks
>open or closed when away from the boat for a time.  In a salt-water
>environment, the sacrificial zinc is connected both electrically
>(via the bonding system) and physically (through the saltwater) to
>the engine (or generator, macerator, strainer, etc.)  When you close 
>the seacock, the system traps saltwater in the system, with no zinc
>to act as the sacrificial anode.  Is this going to cause corrosion
>faster than with the seacock open? 
>
>   It is possible that the engine (or other systems) have a zinc anode
>in them to prevent this, so let's take a theoretical approach here and
>proclaim that the system does not.  Is the trapped saltwater going to
>cause appreciable corrosion?
>
>   
>-Dave
>

I would think a more important concern would be the possibilty of a
busted hose or, in the winter, a cracked cooling jacket. If it occurs
below the waterline and the seacock is open, you'll become the proud
owner of a submarine.
====================================================================

"Mystery Masked Man was smart                                   (__
 He got himself a Tonto                                    __/\-~\ \
 'Cause Tonto did the dirty work for free                 /    \  \_\
 But Tonto, he was smarter                               /     |- ~)
 And one day said 'Kimosabe,
 Kiss my ass, I bought a boat, I'm going out to sea.'"  

  -Lyle Lovett "If I had a boat"  ***********************************
                                  * wes@ian.stx.com (John Shepherd) *
                                  ***********************************
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: gerard@progress.COM (Gerard Bras)
Subject: Re: rebuilding boat refridg. Question
Organization: Progress Software Corp.
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 19:47:33 GMT

<ATLEM@ASUACAD.BITNET> writes:

>We just had to replace the freezing unit on our cruiser
>"Someday Soon". Rather than throw   the old one away we
>have dismantled it to find a damaged copper pipe.
>We would like to rebuild this unit but need to replace the
>"blue ice" like gell that is in the plates that are frozen
>to retain the cold.  Does anyone know what this substance
>is called? Or, where does one go to purchase it? Is it the same
>stuff that is found in the "blue ice" packs that you buy for
>your picnic cooler?

Sounds like it's propylene glycol.  I think it the basis for current
auto antifreeze since ethylene glycol was found to be too toxic.
There is an easy taste test.  PG is intensly sweet.  Don't chug a lug,
just a smidge on the fingertip.

So you shold be able to reload it.  That said you should be aware that
the inside of the pipe needs to be *scrupulously* cleaned or you'll hose
your compressor.   

If you had a brine filled plate you can still convert it to PG.
Home loading with brine is, as I understand it, not worthwhile.

>This is obviously a low budget endeavor, and we know little about
>refridgeration to begin with. But, being handy frugal people we
>would like to try to get this unit back in operation as a replacement
>or for use on a friend's boat.

More power to you.  Best of luck.  There are some books out on
marine refrigeration which you can learn up from.  I like Nigel
Calder's, although people I've corresponded with don't.  So...

One last possibility is to take it to a truck refrigeration place
and pay them to rebuild it for you.  This middle road may be more
reliable than DIY and cheaper than outright replacement.

cheers,
gerard
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: bonnet@prl.dec.com (Christophe Bonnet)
Subject: Re: Splices vs Bends
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation - Paris Research Laboratory
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 13:10:28 GMT


> I would think that the appropriate knot (or bend) here would be the Bowline.
> Personally, I would use an eye splice - it is stronger and neater than any
> knot.  If you are really concerned about it slipping, you can put several
> stitches through the splice, and a whipping over them.

 I guess strongness is the real point here. A bowline knot can stand 50%
of the maximum load of the line, when a splice is around 80%. That could
make a lot of difference in critical situation.
 The problem is that it's quite impossible to do splices on "modern"
ropes (polyester ones). In this case (for example, to put a snap hook at
the end of an halyard), I use another knot, stronger than the bowline.
The black point is that, after several days of use, this knot is really
painfull to undo (just like splices, after all). Unfortunately, I don't
know the English name of that knot.. the french one is "noeud de Capucin".


      Christophe.

===========================

Christophe Bonnet
70 bld de Port-Royal
75005 PARIS (France)