HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rfh3273@galileo.rtn.ca.boeing.com (Dick Harrigill)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: There I was - ears on auto
Date: 27 Aug 92 21:31:04 GMT
Organization: Boeing Commercial Airplane Group, Seattle

In article <17f3psINNovn@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> rob@cats.ucsc.edu (99708000) writes:
>... this--the grossest example I've seen of this is Renton, Wa.   
>It's busy with both land and sea planes, is only a few miles from
>Seatac, and has a Boeing assembly plant on field--but no radar!? ...
> ...  Approach had said "radar service terminated, squak
>1200, contact Renton tower"--he never knew I was coming--gross.

This used to be a big problem.  They recently updated the arrival procedures
for Renton, SeaTac & Boeing.  When heading to Renton from a SeaTac crossing,
you are now instructed to head southeast toward Kent, at or below 1500 ft.
This gives you & Renton a bit more breathing room.  Furthermore, you are to 
remain west of Hwy 167 as arrivals from Lake Youngs are to remain east of 167.


-- 
Dick Harrigill, an independent voice from:     Boeing Commercial Airplanes 
M/S 9R-49  PO BOX 3707                       Renton Avionics/Flight Systems
Seattle, WA  91824                                  Computing Support
(206) 393-9539    rfh3273@galileo.rtn.ca.boeing.com    CDP, PP-ASEL
From: osh@cray.com (O'Shaughnessy John)
Subject: Re: Alphabet Airpspace
Organization: Cray Research, Inc, Mendota Heights, MN
Date: 2 Sep 92 10:13:41 CDT

The FAA has prepared a brochure with a good overview of the new Airspace
classification.  To request a copy, write to 

	FAA/ASF  800 Independence Avenue, SW
	Washington, DC  20591

	The telephone number is: (202) 267-7770



-- 
-----
John M. O'Shaughnessy					osh@a00308.cray.com
Cray Research, Inc.	Voice: 612.683.7322		Fax: 612.683.7509
From: schinner@vcd.hp.com (Jim Schinnerer)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Air Lifeline experience
Date: 31 Aug 92 20:08:24 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard VCD
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

Richard Kaplan (rkaplan@netcom.com) wrote:
: 
: Actually, my quote came from a pamphlet called "AIRLIFELINE
: and the Private Pilot."  The full quotation is as follows:
: 
: Why Do Pilots Love Flying for AirLifeLine?
: 
: .... Several miscellaneous [and appropriate] quotations omitted ....
: 
: "Despite the thunderstorms.... and the fog.... we made it.  Later,
: we learned that the little girl was totally recovered."
:  -- Oscar Victor
: 
: IMHO the above encourages an inappropriate attitude toward safety.

Gee, I read it as, "I had a really interesting flight, and the little
girl was totally recovered."

I can think of several flights that I have made where thunderstorms were
definitely a factor.  No, I didn't fly IFR through embedded cells, but
I flew VFR around them.  After those flights, I could  have very easily
said, "Despite the thunderstorms in Idaho, we made it."

And, when you take off or land in, say, 1 mile visibility in fog, do you
have an inappropriate attitude towards safety?

Sounds to me like there is alot of reading between the lines going on, and
the assumptions made are negative.  The statement quoted could apply to
a very simple flight, or a truely hair-raising flight.  Further, all of
us will interpret the statement differently, even if we knew the pilot.

---------------------------------------------------------
Jim Schinnerer  -  PP-ASEL-IA       |  Hewlett Packard
Mooney - 350X  -  "Buster"          |  Vancouver, WA
email - schinner@vcd.hp.com         |  (206) 944-3324
---------------------------------------------------------
From: shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Mary Shafer)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: playing with jackals
Date: 27 Aug 92 18:25:16 GMT
	<SHAFER.92Aug27085123@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov>
	<1992Aug27.172714.1445@walter.bellcore.com>
Organization: NASA Dryden, Edwards, Cal.

On Thu, 27 Aug 92 17:27:14 GMT, venky@thelonious.bellcore.com (G A Venkatesh) said:

G> In article <SHAFER.92Aug27085123@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov> 
G> shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Mary Shafer) writes in response to M Max:

>Just because Margaret sounds like a crypto-socialist tree-hugger and
>you sound like a dupe of the eco-raping
>sell-out-our-heritage-for-a-fast-buck companies, doesn't mean that I'm
>going to be particularly swayed one way or the other.

G> Sorry. To me, you definitely seem to be swayed one way. It is rather 
G> easy to  get personal when someone doesn't agree with you, isn't it? 
G> What happened to all the grandiose appeals against name-calling 
G> (however subtle it might be above)?

Got our sarcasm detector turned off today, eh?

Which way do you think I was swayed?  Which is worse, a crypto-socialist
tree hugger or a dupe of the eco-raping etc. companies?

Do you really think the name-calling was _subtle_?  I thought I was
being _so_ blatant that no one would take me seriously.

For what it's worth, I think that harvesting trees is just fine, as
long as you don't silt up the streams and replace every bit of old
growth with monoculture.  It's uglier than harvesting corn, but if you
prevent the erosion, it's not vastly worse.  I do object to shipping
the logs to overseas mills, but that's because US millworkers help pay
my salary and I feel some obligation to them.

ObAviation: Talking about corn, a couple of years ago we had tent
caterpillers or web worms or some damned insect infesting our corn (on
a farm in Iowa) when it had grown too high to get the tractor into the
field to spray.  We had them sprayed by airplane.  It was surprisingly
economical.  I thought that it would cost a lot more than it did.  It
worked very well, too.

Has anybody else read John McPhee on cropdusters?  An excellent
discussion, I thought.  He captured the uncertainty of the profession
extremely well.

--
Mary Shafer  DoD #0362 KotFR NASA Dryden Flight Research Facility, Edwards, CA
shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov                    Of course I don't speak for NASA
 "There's no kill like a guns kill." LCDR "Hoser" Satrapa, gunnery instructor
                       "A kill is a kill."  Anonymous
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: egdorf@zaphod.lanl.gov (Skip Egdorf)
Subject: Re: Headset/intercom incompatibilities
Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 23:52:13 GMT

In article <RFINCH.92Aug31081939@venice.water.ca.gov> rfinch@water.ca.gov (Ralph Finch) writes:

   I have a Telex Air 3000 headset.  My instructor has a Peltor 7004
   headset, and I can't remember the brand of his portable intercom.

   He has to put a new 9-volt battery in his intercom to hear me.  Even
   then I often have to shout to activate the VOX.  He says this also
   happens with another pilot who has a Telex, and it doesn't happen with
   other headset brands.  When I transmit with a PTT switch, he has no
   problem hearing me.

   Any ideas on what causes this problem?  How about cures?

The mikes have different impedence. You need an intercom with seperate
squelch on each circuit. My favorite after much shopping is the
PS-Engineering PM-1000. I easily handle my Telex-T2000s, Telex D-950s,
Peltor 7003s, and an instructor's favorite DC-xxx.


When I tried several different portables, the only carbon-mikes that would
talk together were my D-950s, and that after getting inside and adjusting
the trim-pot on the mike input. Even nominally equivlent electret mikes
on the Telex-2000 and the David Clark would not work reliably together.

Get a good intercom.

					Skip Egdorf
					hwe@lanl.gov
					N8849W
From: hdnea@usho0e.hou281.chevron.com (David Neal)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Building your own (dirt) runway?
Date: 31 Aug 92 21:57:56 GMT
Organization: Chevron

In article <1992Aug31.155055.16347@eng.umd.edu> rex@eng.umd.edu (Rex Root) writes:
>In article <1992Aug31.081448.16785@peck.com> geoff@peck.com (Geoff Peck) writes:
>>
>>Ah, but does Home Depot have ILSes?  :-)
>>
>They probably have a weather vane that could be painted orange instead
>of buying a wind sock from Sportys.


Don't laugh.

I don't know what an ILS system would cost. But here at Chevron
I have been to demonstrations of several differential GPS systems.

Most anyone can setup a DGPS (differential GPS) system. 
A local company sells a base station for $16,500 + 2,800 for a
30W UHF transmitter and modem. But $12,500 of the cost is
their 12 channel GPS engine. You can replace it with a lower cost 
six channel system ($2K-$5K).  

For use in the plane you need a GPS system that can use DGPS 
directly, or to spend another $2,800 for a UHF modem and receiver, 
assuming your GPS unit speaks RTCN 104. Motorola sells a unit for 
$4,395 that receives standard and DGPS. Or just the guts to the 
unit for $1,800 for you experimenters out there. Garmin and Trimble 
may have similar units for less.

For your investment, you get 1-4 meters accuracy vertically, 
and 1-3 meters horizontally in a 20-40 statue mile line of sight radius. 

This might seem expensive, but DGPS scales pretty well. Communications
and Measurement Technologies LTD (0442 258333) sells VHF and HF 
DGPS systems that start at $50,000 but have 100-500 Kilometer ranges.

Of course since the FAA's baby MLS would be threatened by
such a system, we all know how far it will go.

Finally, RTCA and the FAA are holding a conference Oct 19
on GPS. Call (301) 949-7477 if you would like to attend.
That's not a commercial endorsement BTW, I just got the
number from Bob Warner at the EAA 5 mins ago and had
never heard of RTCA before that. 





-- 
--
David Neal -- hdnea@hou281.chevron.com 
Conserve water, California's deserts need more cotton farms.
From: jcmorris@mwunix.mitre.org (Joe Morris)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Lighted airways beacon codes
Date: 26 Aug 92 23:07:33 GMT
Organization: The MITRE Corporation

I recently posted a response to a query (since expired) asking for the
mnemonic for the Morse code characters used in the old lighted airways
beacons.  I previously responded with what I remembered (six of the 
characters) but said that my copies of the mnemonic had long since
been thrown out.

I finally found a copy of the mnemonic, and it turns out that I had
four of the six characters right.  Here's the proper key:

  When Undertaking Very Hard Routes Keep Directions By Good Methods
  1    2           3    4    5      6    7          8  9   10

The beacons were keyed by the 10-mile segment of the route.  If terrain
required that two or more beacons be placed in a single 10-mile block,
both beacons displayed the same code but were charted with a letter
suffix.

OK, followup question: can anyone speculate why this character sequence
was used?  There are a few obvious pairings of Morse characters codes
but I don't see any overall pattern which would help anyone.

   W  _ _ .         \ dot/dash inversion
   U  . . _         /
   V  . . . _
   H  . . . .
   R  . _ .         \ dot/dash inversion
   K  _ . _         /
   D  _ . .
   B  _ . . .
   G  _ _ .
   M  _ _

(BTW: my reference for this is the coffee-table book "The National Air
and Space Museum", page 98.)

Joe Morris

PS and OBtrivia: I keep having to stop myself from mixing this mnemonic up
with the one which goes "Oh Be A Fine Girl Kiss Me Right Now (Smooch)".
For ten points extra credit, identify the branch of science which uses
the character sequence OBAFGKMRNS and tell what it represents; for five
more points name the science fiction story which used the mnemonic to
resolve a dilimma.
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: stellabo@phage.cshl.org (Fred Stellabotte)
Subject: Re: Postscript Checklists for 150/152/172 ?
Organization: Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 19:54:15 GMT

c1durko@watson.ibm.com () writes:


>My instructor is BIG on checklists!!!  He has a set of them kept in a small
>(9"x7") binder which is handy to keep on your lap while your flying.
>It includes pre-flight,starting/stopping/emergency procedures etc., anyway
>I've copied his but the quality is poor and I was thinking of doing up	
>a set using Frame but I thought I'd ask first.  Does anyone out there have
>150/152/172 checklists in electronic format?  If not and I do get them done
>in Frame I will make them available through the net as long as it doesn't
>pose any liability problems.  Hmmm maybe this is why nobody else has done
>this ??

>Fly Safe,

John:
I have 2 really nice checklists done in 'framemaker' or 'postscript'
one for a CE-210R and one for a Beech  Travelair ..

I would be happy to 'ftp' to a aviation archive ..

-Fred
_______________________________________________________________________
  >| ====  Fred J. Stellabotte                     stellabo@cshl.org  
  >| ====  Computer Systems Manager
  >| ====  CFIA SEL MEL Commerical Instrument         
  >| ==== ___________________________________________________________
  >| ====  Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory         Voice: (516)367-8420
  >| ====  1 Bungtown Road                         Fax: (516)367-8845
  >| ====  Cold Spring Harbor, New York 11724                     
_______________________________________________________________________
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: davea@col.hp.com (Dave Allen)
Subject: Re: Be nice to your engine
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 00:12:33 GMT
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division

For me,
"run it hard" == high manifold pressure, and
"run it ecomonically" == low rpm.

With a constant-speed prop, I get the best of both worlds. I'm almost always
at full throttle from take-off, through cruise, to descent. But I'm at 1900
rpm (with up to 23") for cruise, for the quiet and economy of it. This is
because Continental (E-225) approves 23" at 1900-2300 rpm. When I pull the
prop back at full throttle, I usually get an inch or two MORE MP - even better
for the engine. The internal pressure (MP) of the engine is what's important,
especially during break-in.

I just went 2100 hours since last major, TBO is 1500. That's tach time, which
at 1900 rpm is about 2500 clock hours. And still running strong. Just took
it down as a matter of principle, and nothing unusual in the teardown.

dave allen - Fly because you love it.
From: beede@sctc.com (Mike Beede)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: GA Safety (was: stupid pilot tricks)
Date: 28 Aug 92 21:46:38 GMT
Organization: SCTC

geoff@peck.com (Geoff Peck) writes:

>It appears to me that my insurance dollar gives me substantially better
>coverage for the airplane than for the car.  Thus, one could argue that the
>insurance companies seem to "think" (and I use that term very loosely) that
>flying is safer than driving.

I'm not an actuary, but I think you'd better factor in the expected
amount of use expected of an airplane and a car.  If the average is 5
hr/month vs. 40 hr/month, then it appears they think the car is the
lesser risk (the high limits can be disregarded, I think; high limits
of coverage cost very little for a car, since few claims occur of that
size -- I pay an extra $96/year to raise the collision/PI coverage on
all my cars from 100K to 1000K).

	Mike

-- 
Mike Beede         Secure Computing
beede@sctc.com     1210 W. County Rd E, Suite 100           
------------------ Arden Hills, MN  55112
                    (612) 482-7420
From: schneidj@eecs.wsu.edu (John B. Schneider)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Calibrating Tachs (was Re: Comparing Tach and Hobbs rates?)
Date: 31 Aug 92 17:58:02 GMT
Reply-To: schneidj@eecs.wsu.edu
Organization: Washington State University

In article <1992Aug31.175304.18610@serval.net.wsu.edu> schneidj@eecs.wsu.edu   
(John B. Schneider) writes:
> Don't these lights just flicker at 60 Hz so that any harmonic of 60 Hz will
> stop the prop?  When you saw the 'stopped' prop, how do you know that you
> weren't at the 29th harmonic (1740 rpm), or better yet, the 28th harmonic
> (1680 rpm).  Your tach may be only 40 high or 20 low.
> 

Oops!  Minutes don't equal seconds!  Duh.  How embarrassing.  Think before you  
post, think before you post, think...

--
John Schneider
schneidj@eecs.wsu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: cab@col.hp.com (Chris Best)
Subject: Re: crossing a runway
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 18:06:43 GMT
Organization: your service

> The instructor is wrong.  First, as the AIM states, it is not necessary to
> ask permission to cross an inactive runway when you've been given taxi
> instructions to the active.  The taxi instructions are an implicit clearance
> to cross.

----------

Just don't forget the special cases.  The latest ASRS Callback talks about
clearances to an active runway which involve crossing THAT runway.  You do 
NOT automatically have permission to cross it (even if no 'hold short'
instruction was added).

An uncommon case, to be sure, but worth mentioning.
From: bboswell@dante.NMSU.Edu (BOSWELL)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Towing Mooneys
Date: 3 Sep 92 16:49:51 GMT
Organization: New Mexico State University

In article <1992Aug24.205240.23638@telebit.com> brent@telebit.com (Brent  
Chapman) writes:
> berry@athos.pei.com (Berry Kercheval) writes:
> 
  The line crew at the Boeing Field
> FlightCraft remembered the plane I was flying very well, despite the fact
> that it was a rather mundane 172, not at all remarkable compared to the
> 30 or so other planes they had on their line, because the nose strut seal
> ruptured and the nosegear collapsed when they fastened the nosegear to the
> tug.  Bright red oil from the nose gear all over the fairing, their tug,
> and probably themselves if they were still standing next to it when it
> happened (I didn't find out about it until later, so I don't know).  Either
> the line crew were telling each other the story, or they got chewed out by
> management for "damaging a customer's aircraft", because they _all_ knew
> our plane not as "N1632E" or "the red and white 172", but as "the plane with
> the collapsed nose strut".
> 
> I'm not sure the tug actually had anything to do with the strut collapsing.
> Knowing this particular 172, it's just as likely that the seal was about to
> rupture anyway, and would have soon done so on taxi or landing shortly
> thereafter.  Frankly, I'd rather it happened when it did, while the plane
> was being handled on the ground, than during taxi or landing.
> 
> 
> -Brent
> --
> Brent Chapman                                   Great Circle Associates
> Brent@GreatCircle.COM                           1057 West Dana Street
> +1 415 962 0841                                 Mountain View, CA  94041
-That's why the FBO I work for doesn't use tugs on small singles that can just  
as easily be moved by hand with a towbar.  What many people don't realize is  
that the nosegear on small aircraft aren't designed to take the rigors of  
towing with a tug.  Braking places the most stress on the nosewheel...
From: jac@dvnspc1.Dev.Unisys.COM (Judy Cadmus)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Oops, the throttle came off!
Date: 27 Aug 92 12:02:23 GMT
Organization: Unisys Corporation, Devon Engineering Offices

What about turning on the carb heat to lose a couple of hundred RPMs?  That
would help slow it down at least a little bit.  Or how about switching the
mags from BOTH to LEFT or RIGHT to lose a few more RPMs?  I would try the
carb heat, but I'm not sure if I would try switching mags.  Would this harm
the engine in any way?
-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Judy Cadmus  PP-ASEL, Instrument Student
Skylane N42202                                  jac@asns.tredydev.unisys.com
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: carruth@mksol.dseg.ti.com (matthew carruth)
Subject: Re: Flying saves money (sic)
Keywords: money
Organization: internet
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 18:13:53 GMT

Comparing costs of renting and airplane vs. the gas for driving a car is
not accurate.  The aircraft rental fee includes fuel, profit, taxes,
insurance, depreciation, etc.  To make a more accurate comparison use the
.3 $/mile figure. 

Of course many people already own cars....
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My views are my own and do not reflect those of my employeers....
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: steve@netcom.com (Stephen Williams)
Subject: Tie-downs in east bay, questions about purchasing
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 04:39:12 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Reply-To: steve@icarus.net.netcom.com

I fly out of the Oakland airport, and live near the airport.
I'm looking into buying a C-177RG (I hope) and need to consider
where to park it. Does anybody out there know how I might find
out about tie-downs/hangers at Oakland? I can possibly accept
Concord - Buchannan Field as well, if I must, but I'm really
hoping for a spot in Oakland.

Also, how about insurance for a C-177RG? Anybody have experience
shopping for insurance and what it costs? Pointers on this subject
would be appreciated.

--Steve Williams
steve@icarus.net.netcom.com
PP-AMEL-IA

P.S. Obviously, I'm new at this airplane purchasing stuff,
and quite frankly, its a little scary. However, I am possesed
and intend to go through with it, the fates willing. I've already
received useful comments about the C-177RG (my goal craft) and
am grateful. The more the better.
From: brianh@pongo.Eng.Sun.COM (Brian Horn)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Proposed MSP Fly-in (Was uamwfi, or something like that)
Date: 3 Sep 1992 22:12:52 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: pongo

In article <1992Sep3.145403.1@pomona.claremont.edu> jhenderson@pomona.claremont.edu writes:
>Let's have the next left coast fly in at LAX! (sorry, couldn't resist)

Find.  I'll drive.  I've been there.  It is as much of a pain in the ass
flying into it privately as it is commercially.

>Speaking of which, when +is+ the next LCFI?

Spoken like a true volunteer!  So when are you going to arrange it?
From: ulick@chopin.helios.nd.edu (Ulick Stafford)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Finding toxic waste; netiquette
Date: 26 Aug 92 17:13:46 GMT
Organization: University of Notre Dame, Notre Dame

In article <1992Aug26.144743.22482@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> ginsberg@t.Stanford.EDU (Matthew L. Ginsberg) writes:
>
>
>My own view is that citizens acting legally to further causes they
>believe in (whether I agree or not) are standing on solid moral
>ground.  And I do not believe that flying over someone's house and
>looking down is an invasion of privacy.
>

It depend on your motive and the altidude at which you do it.  If you fly
below 500' above their house to get a look, you are contravening their
right to privacy, silence, etc.  The nudist camps near here are damned good
at reading tail numbers.  Now if you happen to spot something illegal (not
to be confused with wrong) and report it, it is like an illegal search.  The
evidence should be thrown out, but given how much thew present supreme 
court demolishes the 4th ammendment by its defintition of the word 
unreasonable, illegal busy body behaviour is probably legal (not to be
confused with right).  I guess the practical rule applies.  If your tail 
number is readable, you are too low.

The analogy with driving is ok.  If you spot soemthing from a public  
road, I guess you have a legal right to know.  Like wise, if you are 
flying at a proper altitude.

You should ammend your upper statement to read that people acting legally...
are on solid legal ground, or people acting morally or correctly are on solid
moral ground, but your above statement seem to confuse the 2 terms.


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 
+ 'There was a  master come unto the earth, + Ulick Stafford, PP-ASEL       +
+    born in the holy land of Indiana,      + Dept of Chemical Engineering, +
+ in the mystical hills east of Fort Wayne'.+ Notre Dame, IN 46556          +
+      B'fhearr liom bheith ag eitilt.      +    ulick@bach.helios.nd.edu   +
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++