From: kwelch@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Geisha Dawn)
Newsgroups: alt.abortion.inequity
Subject: Re: a woman's choice
Date: 15 Apr 92 22:19:35 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

Ron
>CJ
>>Kevin W.

>>|Asshole!  Why don't you put the rest of what I said in there, bastard?
>>|I also included a "And keep your pants zipped" for the guys.
>>|Jerk.

>>Well, that's odd.  If you find your own advice so unpleasant
>>& insulting, why did you offer it to others?  You do plan to
>>live by the standards you'd recommend to others, don't you?

>Naah, we wouldn't expect the little hypocrit to actually do anything
>he said, now, would we?

>Welch, if you get this far before attempting to flame me, kudos for
>you, but I doubt it. Here's some serious material.

Okay, kudos for me.  I got this far.  Now I'll flame.

Ron, if I say someone should follow a law or rule, I will follow it myself.
And if I advocate not having sex, I won't have sex.  If I advocate having
sex, I'll try the best I can to get some.

Either way, I don't eat my words.

>I wouldn't give a penny for your thoughts.

And wouldn't give a bucket of piss for any more of your comments about
my personal life, what I stand for, and what I believe to be the right 
thing.  You may say whatever you want.  Learn some respect, though.

>After that slavery thing,
>which you've stumbled into twice now, you have negative credibility
>with me, if that were possible.

With you, nothing is possible.

>What you think of me is completely irrelevant to me (since I think you're
>somewhere around 20, and appear to have led a completely sheltered life
>which has insulated you from the real world and given you  exactly zip
>in the maturity process) in the same manner as a 2 year old child calling
>me poo-poo.

I find you to be a human being, Ron, just like me.  I respect every
belief that you hold, whether I disagree with it or not.  I respect your
lifestyle.  I will defend your right to say whatever you want on this
network.  I believe in freedoms such as these.  I believe in letting
others live their lives without harming others.

I believe in respect.

And that is what I think of you.

>You have exhibited extreme immaturity, as judged by people far older,
>experienced, and mature than you. To deny this is a further sign of
>immaturity.

Well if age is a level of maturity, then I am indeed immature compared
to Gordon, 35.  I am indeed immature compared to Patrick, (God knows).

If character is a measure of maturity, then you have none.  If respect
is a measure of maturity, you have none.

>You have also exhibited extreme naivity in regards to any serious subject,
>and are becoming/already a real bore. You have yet to show any logical reasons
>for any of your blatant assertions.

Then don't respond to my posts, Ron.  I didn't ask YOU to respond to any
of them.

It seems as though every time I interject something that has force, especially
when it's said by the leaders of your side, you discount it as irrelevant.
To you, this is the blatant assertion that you do not bother with.  This
is the problem you have with my presence.

>Your insults are generally petty,


Your moralizing speeches such as this are generally unwelcome as they
have no bearing on this debate whatsoever.  They place you on a high horse
upon which you do not belong.  YOu endow yourself with a holier than thou
crown which keeps falling off your head.

>and most things that you say are so
>flawed, they can easily be turned on you. You counter by emotional or
>blatant assertions.

You are the one who twists, Ron, not I.

>You gloat over minor points, that most don't care about, while consistently
>ignoring the major ones.

If the points are minor, why did you argue them in the first place?
Is it an ego thing, Ron?  Or did you find some value in them?

>As for that major point, you've finally come out and said it, you think
>the woman totally worthless,

Quote it or retract it.  I demand of you the same respect that I have
given you.  If you cannot supply one piece of evidence where I have
said the woman is "totally worthless", you are a liar.

>not even in control of her own body.

Quote it or retract it.  I said her body is not her property.  A man's body
is not his property.  S/He cannot do with that body as s/he pleases.

>If
>it is not her property, with your meanings attached, then she isn't
>in control of it.

Wrong.  I didn't say this.  Quote it or retract it.  I said property
and body are two separate entities.

>This is also something you want to assert anyway,
>so don't bother denying it.

Do I want to say I hate homosexuals?
DO I want to say I hate women?
Do I want to say I worship fetuses?
DO I want to say I hate you?
Do I want to say I want to control women?
Do I want to say that we should ban contraceptives?
Do I want to say that all pro-choicers should go to hell?

NO.  I believe in none of the above.

What is it that I want to say, Ron?  Since you can read my mind better
than I can, tell me.  Do me one last piece of courtesy before you ignore
me forever.  Provide me with one honest position so that I can defend
my integrity and my thoughts.  Provide me with one last opportunity so
that I can exercise my Constitutional rights to free speech.  Assault me,
Ron.  DO IT!  Come on!  Stone me to death.  Let's go.  right now.

From now on it's you an me, Ron.  Morality on Morality.  Or haven't you got the
respect.  I didn't think so.

>You are a worm of the lowest form, with zero compassion for your fellow
>man/woman.

If you wish to call me such, I am just that.  Your lie may become truth
with your followers, but lies only become real when people choose to
believe in them.


>You have obviously never conversed (preached, maybe, never
>listened) with a woman who has gone through any of the things you claim
>to know about.

Another assumption on your part which you cannot possibly prove.  You
blindly make assertions and stab at the dark, Ron.  Well, I haven't
gotten any wounds next.  Perhaps you can try to make a few.

>I've got news for you. As a man, you will never know what the whole
>issue is about, you can only intellectualize, provided you have the
>proper equipment, which appears lacking in your case.

Another assumption.

>GO AWAY.

I am here to stay, Ron, no matter how vexing that is to you.


>Ron

>If you want a response, email me. Threatening/obscene letters will be
>posted. Insults don't matter.

Okay.
Point taken.  It's obvious that insults don't matter to you.  You are
impervious to pain, but you're a man, just like me.  An you'll never
have that ability to understand abortion as I will never have.  

Ron...I have nothing else to say.  I feel like grabbing a burger.  Maybe
some fries.  Then I'll sit back and watch Star Trek and then study some
more, ever becoming smarter than you.

When you want to respect me as I you, let me know.

End of line.

Kevin


--
(=- Mr. Kevin C. Welch to you -=)		Science wiLl Be truth for Life
(  kwelch@eniac.seas.upenn.edu	)		TechNology as Nature
						In foRtran tongue the Answer
10000 Maniacs ->				with weAlth and pRominence
Newsgroups: alt.abortion.inequity,talk.abortion