From: kiran@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Kiran Wagle)
Subject: Re: The "first" "move" (was Re: A R C )
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 92 20:48:19 GMT

>kiran@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Me) writes:

>>Indeed. And if Warren Farrell's claim that there are 150 initiatives
>>between eye contact and sexual contact is true, you have a lot more to
>>worry about than that.

stef@Apple.COM (Stef Jones) writes:

>150! Wow. Sometimes one can go through them pretty damn fast...
True. In fact, I think he suggests these initiatives can all occur in
one unit of time (say, one evening.)

>Does Farrell suggest that it is the man who must make all of 
>these initiatives?
He suggests that men initiate most of the time, and are 
responsible for the 150 steps because of this. Also, the (claimed by
me) fact that men are quite unlikely to to turn down an offer of sex
means that an initiating woman does not have to worry about these
steps. I would like to see the complete chapter about these initiative
stages, btw, it was cut from the book for reasons of length.

>>Again, depends on the person, but i think [...]
>If it depends on the person what the biggest risk is, then 
It depends on the person because it's always possible to find _someone_
with any strange opinion you want.

>it seems difficult to state with any certainty that asking 
>someone out on a first date is a bigger risk than anything
>else....which is what a lot of men seem to be claiming.
So: it may depend on the person, but the chances of such a dependency
are low, if a lot of men are making this claim.

>>>What if I were to invite you to a jazz concert in Monterey -- I would
>>>have made the first move but it would be you flying 2000 miles. 
>>It would have to be a great jazz concert. Squid and chocolate cake at
>>India Joze, on the other hand...
>How about truffle soup with pigeon essences at Chez Panisse?
Oh, those pigeon essences *sigh* But would pigeon essences go with
truffles? I don't know, since I wasn't able to try either of them.

>>The risk of rejection. If there is no bigfuckingdeal about "first
>>moves" why are some people shy? Shy people often don't make first
>>contact with _anyone_, let alone romantic partners.
>Oh, so first moves are only a problem for shy people? 
First moves with _anyone_ are a problem for shy people. First moves
with a potential romantic interest are a problem for many if not most
non-shy-people, as well as shy people.

>My point is the risk of rejection is there at any point in the relationship,
>not just when you first ask someone out. 
But it seems to matter most at the beginning. Why? I dunno.

>If there are 150 initiatives
>between eye contact and sexual contact, imagine how many there are between
>sexual contact and deciding that you want to be with this person forever.
Probably few, in the sense that Farrell was discussing. After you have
started sleeping together, then you can abandon this foolishness and
get to know someone. (1/2 :-) for all those soc.singles readers who
claim to want to get to know someone _before_ sleeping with them.) And
there are no 'initiatives' in the sense that the decision you have
described is yours alone.

>A rejection might occur anywhere along the line.
True. Why are they scarier at the beginning? I haven't thought about
this enough to have any ideas.

>>>In my experience, asking someone to go out with me for the first time
>>>is one of the smaller risks. 
>>And what are some of the larger risks? 
>Expressing dissatisfaction or another negative emotion for the first time 
>to a new romantic partner.
Those don't seem so risky to me.

>>How do you know? Do you read their mind? 
>No, their body language and their words.
Oh, you read their mind and their words. :-)

>>(Or have you never in your life gotten mixed signals?)
>Yes, I've gotten mixed signals. 
How bout signals that are not mixed, but are opposite to what they
really felt or wanted?

-- 
"The truffle is not an outright aphrodisiac, but it may in certain
 circumstances make women more affectionate and men more amiable."
                                                ...Brillat-Savarin

Newsgroups: soc.singles