HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Tramway/trolley gauges
Date: 14 Oct 92 05:40:45 GMT
Reply-To: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins)
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA

In article <1992Oct13.192207.25309@bcrka451.bnr.ca> dewi@bnr.ca (Dewi Williams) writes:
> 
> In article <1992Oct13.161431.7462@sq.sq.com>, msb@sq.sq.com (Mark Brader) writes:
> > >   The Landport and Southsea Tramway Company was authorized in
> > >   1863 to lay a line from Portsmouth Town Station to Clarence Pier, a
> > >   distance of a little over a mile.  It was opened in 1865 with grooved
> > >   rails and a gauge of 4ft. 7 3/4in., this being chosen so that ordinary
> > >   railway wagons and carriages could use it.  Though there is no
> > >   evidence that in fact they did so ...
> > 
> > But this doesn't make sense, unless (a) the gauge is being measured in
> > a way different from railway practice, or (b) the wheels are riding on
> > the tracks in a nonstandard way.
>  
> b) is correct. The grooves in a tramway rail are so shallow that the tire of
>    a railway wheel does not ride on the surface of the rail; instead, the
>    flange of the wheel rides in the bottom of the groove.

I don't think this is really standard in street-railway practice, at least not
in the US.  the "girder rail" looks like what you describe, however the wheels
still rides on the surface of the rail and the extension on the other side of
the flange simply provides for a closed flangeway that doesn't spread to trap
carriage wheels or ladies heels, nor close up when paving blocks/bricks shift.

-- 
George Robbins - now working for,     work:   to be avoided at all costs...
but no way officially representing:   uucp:   {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!grr
Commodore, Engineering Department     domain: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: rh@loral.uucp (Randy Houk )
Subject: Query about The RAILFAN PHOTOGRAPHER
Organization: Loral Instrumentation
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 92 19:08:35 GMT

	In late June I sent a $15 check for a one year subscription

	to "The Railfan Photographer."  They have since cashed the

	check, but I've not gotten my first issue, or any other kind

	of verification.  I realize that this is a quarterly publication,

	but more than three months have passed.  Has anyone else had

	this problem with this publication?  How about a phone number

	to call?  I called information for Higley, Arizona and found

	that publisher Ted Ellis does not have a listed phone number.

	Thanks in advance,

	Randy Houk
	rh@loral.cts.com
	619-674-5100 x-4756
From: ba903@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Charles P. Hobbs)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: California Rail Bond
Date: 14 Oct 1992 05:47:29 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: ba903@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Charles P. Hobbs)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, gurd@next04wor.wam.umd.edu (Daffy Duck) says:

>I just read in one of the industry magazines that another $1 billion rail  
>bond referendum will be on the November ballot in California.  Who is  
>lobbying for it, and which groups (if any) oppose it.  If it is approved  
>what specific projects will it be used to finance (other than exercising  
>the States option with Morrison Knudsen for more California cars).
>
This is Proposition 156, a statewide rail bond measure in California.

 
If passed, it will provide funds for CAPITAL expenditures for intercity
(Amtrak), commuter (Caltrain/Metrolink) and urban (BART, Metro Rail) rail
transit projects in California. Specific projects include
 
URBAN TRANSIT 
San Diego Trolley
Los Angeles Metro Rail (Blue/Red/Green Lines)
Sacramento Metro Light Rail
Placer County Light Rail
Santa 
Santa Clara County Transit Light Rail
San Francisco Muni Metro
BART
 
COMMUTER RAIL
Metrolink (Service to Los Angeles, Orange, Riverside, San Bernadino, Ventura
           counties)
 
North San Diego Commuter Rail (Escondido-Oceanside-San Diego)
Peninsula Commuter Rail ("Caltrain"-San Jose to San Francisco)
 
Santa Cruz Rail (Santa Cruz - Watsonville)
 
INTERCITY
Amtrak "San Diegans" (San Diego-Los Angeles-Santa Barbara)
       "San Joaquins" (Los Angeles-Bakersfield to No. Calif)
       "Capitals" (San Jose-Oakland-Sacramento"
       A proposed service between San Francisco and Eureka.
 
TThis bond measure is supported by a bi-partisan coalition, various transportation
,
environmental and business groups. However, it is opposed by a UCLA professor
of urban planning....
From: phxy@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: AARPCO Special Train
Date: 7 Oct 92 07:49:35 EDT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Cornell University


Spent yesterday chasing the AARPCO special across upstate New York!
What a beautiful train!  20 PVs in a variety of liveries, including
six domes.  Motive power was two reasonably clean Amtrak F40s. The
last car was the "Dagny Taggart"(named, I assume after the Ann Rynd
character) marked for an outfit called something like the "East Texas
and Buffalo Creek Steamship Company".  Anybody know anything about
this outfit?  Who they are, where they are from, why they named the 
car what they did?

Bruce Fingerhood
brucef@ee.cornell.edu
School of Electrical Engineering
Cornell University
Ithaca NY
From: 737ochs@gw.wmich.edu
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Empire Builder Lost? (was: LIRR Joke)
Date: 7 Oct 92 19:20:49 EST
Organization: Western Michigan University

In article <Bvrt1z.BtJ@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>, mosier@laidbak.ucs.indiana.edu (Stephen Mosier) writes:
> In article <16094@mindlink.bc.ca> Steve_Hooper@mindlink.bc.ca writes:
> 
>>Call me a non-believer or a story wrecker, but I find this hard to believe.
>>Train crews MUST be familiar with the territory they are on, otherwise a
>>pilot from that particular area MUST be called.
> 
> i have to agree with this.  i worked for the pennsylvania rr and was
> around for the infamous penn central fiasco.  there was *much* shuffling
> of trains from prr -> nyc -> prr trackage and there was always a pilot
> engineer/conductor pair from whatever division was involved to herd the
> the trains around until the foreign crews were quilified to run by themselves.
> 
> i think this is a FRA rule rather than local to whatever rr is involved so 
> think any class I rr will have to comply with it.
> 
> plausible story... but suspect it's apocryphal.   railroads are full of
> urban legends. :-)

A friend of mine who works for CSX told me abouta story when he used to work
in Barr Yard in Chicago for C&O. He said that the yard was completely full(when
railroads used to runs lots-o-trains) he said they told the crew to go outside
the yard, told them where exactly to go, and park the train there. Well 
evidently someone forgot about the location, because 2 or 3 days later, they
couldn't find the train in the yard (because it wasn't in the yard)
kinda bizarre, but also kinda humourous. "Yea Charlie, where's this train 355"
"I dunno, it came thru here last night" ;^)

Fred Ochs
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: dptodey@IASTATE.EDU (Dennis P Todey)
Subject: Re:Water scoops
Reply-To: dptodey@IASTATE.EDU (Dennis P Todey)
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 15:12:53 GMT


Where would one find footage of this.  I too have
been intrigued by these and would like to see one
in action.

Dennis Todey
dptodey@iastate.edu
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: andradee@woods.ulowell.edu
Subject: Re: More on Metrolink (L.A.)
Organization: University of Lowell
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 14:29:10 GMT

In article <1992Oct15.121050.25877@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>, ggg9y@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Garth G. Groff) writes:
> SAN BERDOO FARES
> 
> $16 might not seem so outrageous if you consider the
> cost of gasoline, car amortisitation, parking, etc.
> A few years ago I saw an article that said the real
> cost of operating a car was about .50 per mile.  I
                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^

> --
> Garth (Haridas) Groff
> "Not yet famous author"
> ggg9y@poe.acc.virginia.EDU         Chant "Govinda Bohlo Hare"

	About July of this year or so, I decided to calculate the cost of
opperating my car since I had bought it (1 Year ago this month) I had had
some high repair bills in that time (around $500), and figuring in repair
bills, gas, and preventitive mantience it came out to be about $.33 a mile.
and this is for a '84 Buick Century with 3L V-6 engine. I had forgotton 
about insurance but that would only push up the cost by about $.04 a mile.
I know it would me even less if I had a cheap (junk) inport car. This is 
also for the Boston MA area, so I am sure it would be different elsewere.
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: sgard@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (sanford.gardner)
Subject: Re: LIRR joke
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 14:21:12 GMT
Summary: Looking for LIRR Poem

In article <122200159@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM>, wbrill@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Warren Brill) writes:
> In rec.railroad, lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich) writes:
> > 
> > 	Carl Sagan, in the _Broca's Brain_ chapter "Night-Walkers and
> > Mystery-Mongers", tells us how he once asked a question about
> > mysterious disappearances on the Dick Cavett show. He asked why is it
> > that it is ships and airplanes that disappear, and not trains. To
> > which Dick Cavett responded that "I can see you haven't waited for the
> > Long Island Rail Road..."
> > 
> > 	Is that a fair assessment of the LIRR?

In the 1950s/60s when the LIRR was noted for it's delays, etc; one of
the local NYC papers had an article discussing the "new improvements"
that were destined for the LIRR (probably associated with Rockefeller's
Rocket).  In the article was a poem, written I guess by the newspaper
staffer, that ended with the line;

      "...And we'll still have to
             Change at Jamaica." 

Anybody know the beginning of the poem. It runs about 10 or 12 lines.
Can you post it?

Sanford Gardner   AT&T Bell Labs
sgard@mhnmc.att.com
(908) 582-6046

From: wbrill@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Warren Brill)
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 14:04:48 GMT
Subject: Re: Tehachapi double track, was Re: If coast, no valley
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.railroad

In rec.railroad, lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich) writes:

> In article <1992Oct1.200330.411@telebit.com> bjork@telebit.com (Steven Bjork) writes:
> >In article <1992Oct1.192341.20733@s1.gov> lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich) writes:
> >>In article <1992Sep30.231615.11017@telebit.com> bjork@telebit.com (Steven Bjork) writes:
{Bunch of fragments deleted]
> 
> 	I know I sound like a Kremlinologist, but I find it curious
> that I don't see SP's logo, featuring a railroad track heading into a
                   ^^^^^^^^^
             WHICH SP logo? (see below)
> rising sun, on any of SP's rolling stock -- just "Southern Pacific" or
> "SP" in plain letters. This seems exceptional among railroads; I've
> seen UP's red-white-and-blue shield logo on most of UP's rolling
> stock, for example, and even on some of its railroad bridges.
> 
Now that D&RGW bought control of SP and changed the whole kit/caboodle to
SP (STILL SAY IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN ALL D&RGW) the SP now has a new logo,
at least on motive power: the "flying SP". So, you may not see a lot of
the old railroad track in the future, either, though I have no details. I
am under the impression that the track->sun is a pretty old logo. BTW,
many railoads paint just enough on their rolling stock to identify it,
such as BN boxcars, most of which sport Cascade Green and small BN letters
no more than a foot tall, rather than the billboard BN they have on loco-
motives. Just a guess: only cars which are dedicated to some "signature"
service are billboarded by some roads, while others use every square foot
of their revenue rolling stock to advertise.

 
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
o                                          i---i_________________      o
o    Warren T. Brill, a.k.a.          *----|[|]|  #### #### #### |*    o
o    wbrill@hpxxx.fc.hp.com         i_|___/|___|\________________|_i   o
o    wbrill@hpfcso.fc.hp.com       =++()=()=() `========' ()=()=()++=  o
o                                  =================================== o
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
From: hudson@pnet51.orb.mn.org (Hudson Leighton)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Moebius
Date: 9 Oct 92 18:25:02 GMT
Organization: People-Net [pnet51], Minneapolis, MN.

At my model RR club one of the members is building at approaches to the major
passenger depot (double slips by the car load) some wag posted a sign
Moebius Junction. So being the handlaid track builder he is he has temeporaory
added a moebius strip made out of code 80 rail.

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From: CZ94@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA (CZ94000)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: toronto subway gauge
Date: 9 Oct 92 22:40:02 GMT
Organization: McGill University

In article <1992Oct8.202025.14724@zehntel.com> gregg@pinot.zehntel.com (Gregg Fuhriman) writes:
>In article <1992Oct7.121726.19815@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> ggg9y@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Garth G. Groff) writes:
>>
>>I wasn't aware the Toronto surface lines were wide guage.
>>Didn't many of the Toronto cars serve under lease on
>>San Francisco's MUNI in the 1970s?  If so, they would
>>have been narrowed at great cost and later widened again
>>when they returned to Toronto.
>
>I think the original question concerned the SUBWAY in Toronto, not the
>STREETCARS in Toronto.  The streetcars probably are standard guage, if
>they have been used on other systems like SF MUNI.
>
No, both the streetcars and the subway are broad gauge.  The Scarboro'
RT is standard gauge.

>I visited Toronto in August and found a wonderful variety of public transit:
>
>SUBWAY: Long silver trains running underground downtown, and above ground
>elsewhere.  One main east-west line and two lines branching to the north.
>There's an above-ground yard along Yonge Street north of downtown.

The "two lines branching to the north" are really a single U-shaped
line.  If I recall correctly, there's also a yard east of downtown
(near the Greenwood station?)
>
Tom Box
CZ94@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA
From: rambler@pnet51.orb.mn.org (Dan Meyer)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Empire Builder Lost? (was: LIRR Joke)
Date: 9 Oct 92 22:45:05 GMT
Organization: People-Net [pnet51], Minneapolis, MN.

Steve_Hooper@mindlink.bc.ca (Steve Hooper) writes:
>> schumann@msus1.msus.edu writes:
>>
>> So, Steve, while it IS hard to believe, it apparently really did
>> happen.  I never did hear a good explanation for why the crew was not
>> familiar enough with the route to notice the switch was lined the
>> wrong way.
>
>
>If it DID happen, it sure would be a scary thing!  I mean, out on a strange
>piece of track with no clearance etc..
>
>Oh well...but the key is, this is all yard area.  When I said that I doubted
>the above story could actually happen, I simply meant I could not see a train
>straying from the mainline on to a branch line.  In my case, ther IS a main,
>but it is all yard limits (about 15 miles of lousy track in which three major
>rail yards are located.)
>
>Ah, railroading...ain't it fun!
>
>--
>

For what it's worth, the train I was talking about ( maybe it was the Duluth
train, not the 'Builder) was lost in yard limits also.

- -Dan Meyer

Remember: " Buffalo never Oink " Seen on a South Dakota travel brocure.
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Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich)
Subject: Re: Testing maglevs
Organization: LLNL
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 15:27:21 GMT

In article <Hi39RB2w165w@1776.COM> bob@1776.COM (Robert Coe) writes:
>lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich) writes:
@ >Until cheap and reliable maglevs have been demonstrated (including little 
@ >things like switches) they will be uselessly expensive novelties. What's 
@ >the value, beyond the gee-whiz factor, of a maglev people mover? What can 
@ >it do that a rubber-tired vehicle can't do?  Whisk folks 1.2 miles at 300 
@ >mph? Maybe we need maglev escalators, too.
@ 
@       I see what you mean. But I do think that the technology has to be 
@ tested _somewhere_, and where is a better place but relatively short lines 
@ without any branches? No branches means no switches to be repeatedly 
@ thrown, which gets around _that_ conundrum.

>Now there's an interesting piece of logic:  We should test maglevs to see
>whether their problems can be solved.  One of the biggest unsolved problems 
>is switches.  So we should test maglevs where we don't need switches!

	I guess I didn't make myself clear enough. I was suggesting
running maglevs on non-switched lines (except for going to and from
the yard) just to be able to get operational experience with the rest
of the maglev setup.

Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: Joe.Russ <Joe.Russ@mixcom.mixcom.com>
Subject: Re: W&S ramblings
Organization: Milwaukee Internet Xchange BBS, Milwaukee, WI U.S.A.
Distribution: na
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 07:18:05 GMT

In <1992Oct9.002448.5713@gw.wmich.edu> 737ochs@gw.wmich.edu writes:

>>>From dave Wed Oct  7 14:34:20 1992
>> : [some text deleted]
>> :
>> :According to the net, Glenn Mohart's F-units are not currently
>> :being used, and the Janesville yard is idle.  Janesville was
>> :previously the hub for operations to and from Chicago, Madison,
>> :Waukesha, and Freeport.  Any idea what their current operating
>> :scheme is?  There isn't much trackage available for switching in
>> :Madison.  Also, what motive power is being used on old WICT
>> :trackage?  WICT had a fleet of blue GP9's (I think) with white
>> :lettering.  I suspect they may still be on the property, but I'm
>> :in Ohio and can't verify.
>> : [more text deleted]

>Well, I can tell you where one of his F-Units is, FP7 # 96A is in Paw
Paw
>Michigan on the Kalamazoo LakeShore & Chicago (KLS&C) running their
dinner
>train, and once in a while the scenic train if their ex-ATSF GP7u is
busy.
>It is in the IC-inspired colors or brown and cream (I think that's
the
>correct colors). They leased this after the E-unit they had died.
>(There is a picture of this engine in wuarchive.wustl.edu in the 
>/graphics/trains/diesel directory)

>Fred Ochs
Some of Monhart's equipment will be running on excursions north of
Milwaukee sometime within the next few weeks (don't have the dates
handy). Now that the WSOR owns the WICT, they won't be leasing
Monhart's power anymore. 
 
Bill Gardner of the WSOR, Northern Railcar, and formerly Scenic Rail
Dining, has purchased the old Lakeside Bridge & Steel plant on the
north side of Milwaukee and will be moving WSOR's headquarters there
from Horicon. And yes, I have heard that Northern Railcar will be
moving there as well from Cudahy (south side of Milwaukee).
  Joe R.
-- 
Joe.Russ@mixcom.com
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: ovr@lk-hp-14.hut.fi (Otto-Ville Ronkainen)
Subject: Re: Europe trip report and signals, part 2
Keywords: SJ, NSB, DSB, signals
Reply-To: ovr@snakemail.hut.fi (Otto-Ville Ronkainen)
Organization: L{nsi-Uudenmaan Keisarillinen Polyteknillinen Koulu
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 23:06:24 GMT

In article <30155@dworkin.wustl.edu> jps@dworkin.wustl.edu (James Sterbenz) writes:
>G"oteborg).  I almost found out the hard way that reservations are
>required to ride first class on the SJ (and I assume the NSB also); on
>the DB, OBB, and SBB you can just hop the train a sit in any seat that
>does not have a reservation tag.

The same goes for 2nd class as well. Of course, if you take a non-Inter-
City train, you don't need a reservation, but such trains are getting rare.

Since you didn't post any Finnish signals, I'll try to complete.

Head (old)  Head (new)       Distant (old) (new)
(rounded)  (rectangular)     (circular)    (rectangular)

 ---           ---              /-\          ---
| G |         |G  |            / W \        |  W|
| R |         |R  |            \ G /        |W G|
 ---           ---              \-/         |G  |
  |             |                |           ---
                                              |
 or            or

 ---           ---
| G |         |G  |
| R |         |R  |
| O |         |O  |
 ---           ---
  |             |


Head and distant signals may be placed in the same pole with the head
signal on top.

Dwarf:   /--       Block:     /-
        / WW|                / x|
        |   |               /   |
        |W W|              / x x|
         ---                ----
          |                   |

Head signal: G (green) = go
             R (red)   = stop
             O (orange)= go, max speed 35 kph

Distant: W (blinking white) = next signal stop
         G (blinking green) = next signal go
If a head signal in the same pole shows red, the distant signal isn't lit.

Dwarf:  W go               W   and   W  ??
        W         WW stop   W       W

Block: green = go, red = stop, orange = next head signal stop (or go max 35)
(I don't remember the order of the lights and all the mags are B&W :-(

>colorlights now.  The system (as the Finnish) is based on the German 1
>to 3 arm semaphores with a separate distant disc, having been
>translated to colorlights.  I saw no mechanical signals in
>Skandinavia.

BTW, the Finnish semaphores are (well, were, with less than a dozen still
in use) truly unique, since because the semaphores are of Swedish design,
the arms point left, which is away from track in Sweden because of left-
hand traffic, yet the signals are on the right side. So somehow semaphore
arms pointing away from track always look funny for me.

>1959 DB Signalbuch, 1947 SJ rules, and 1951 JV (Finnish) rules (these
                                             ==?
>are fairly similar to the Swedish signals).

What on earth does JV mean? The Finnish State Railways is in Finnish
Valtionrautatiet, abbrev. VR, and in Swedish Statsj{rnv{garna (surprise!),
abbrev. VR or SJ. On the other hand, the rules are called Junaturvallisuus-
s{{nt|, abbrev. Jt.
--
Ott-Vill R______________________
ovr@snakemail.hut.fi
From: hudson@pnet51.orb.mn.org (Hudson Leighton)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: POTUS??
Date: 16 Oct 92 15:05:03 GMT
Organization: People-Net [pnet51], Minneapolis, MN.

From the RPO BBS

Who's POTUS???   Would you believe President of the United States.
Tentative plans revealed by reliable sources inform that a presidential
special is to run through the central part of the state of Wisconsin. 
Operating road will be Wisconsin Central Limited0

The 16 car train will stop at numerous places in Wisconsin before terminating0
in Chippewa Falls.  That's where POTUS and Barbara will get off and go0
somewhere else by some other mode of transportation.  The train will continue
to the Twin Cities and eventually wind up in the AMTRAK station area.  Rumors0
have it going south from the Twin Cities, possibly on the C&NW Spine Line, bu0
other routes are available.0

Security for the portion of the itinerary with POTUS on board will be tight.0
A special train will lead the POTUS special.  A special train will follow th0
POTUS special.  Switches not CTC controlled will be spiked0

Almost forgot the most important part, the date:  Monday, October 26th.0
Time?  Not known at this time but more information will be transmitted whe0
known.0
Remember, you saw it on the RPO BBS first.0


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