From: neeri@iis.ethz.ch (Matthias Neeracher)
Subject: Re: Passing out Condoms  (Was Re: Better Off Than Four Years Ago NOT)
Organization: Integrated Systems Laboratory, ETH, Zurich
	<1992Aug25.143848.25921@crd.ge.com>
	<1992Aug25.211825.33981@watson.ibm.com>
	<1992Aug26.133344.1210@crd.ge.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 17:42:11 GMT

In article <1992Aug26.133344.1210@crd.ge.com> doel@ausable.crd.ge.com (Michael Doel) writes:
>In article <1992Aug25.211825.33981@watson.ibm.com>, mjones@fenway.aix.kingston.ibm.com (Mike Jones) writes:
>> In article <1992Aug25.143848.25921@crd.ge.com> doel@crd.ge.com writes:
>> >In article <BtJL2I.K4z@apollo.hp.com>, nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes:
>> >> In article <1992Aug25.131123.24352@crd.ge.com> doel@crd.ge.com writes:
>
>> Oh? Do you have any research, or even a plausible theory (beyond "common
>> sense") why "Just Say No" has worked with drugs, or will work with sex? Most
>> young people I know think the just say no campaigns are a complete joke. I
>> tend to agree, and regard the phenomenon as correlation, not causation.
>
>Not being a sociologist, I can't say that I have the research to back up
>my statement that drug use amongst young people is going down.  The statement
>is based on news reports I've seen over the last year or so.  I do think
>the "just say no" campaign has had a positive impact on this.  A public
>awareness campaign also helped to bring the number of smokers down in this
>country.  Although the phrase "just say no" wasn't associated with the
>latter, the messages and techniques were very similar.  Thus, I'm reasonably
>confident that a similar campaign can help bring down the number of teens
>having sex.

And you think that a "Just say no to breathing" campaign would reduce
breathing?

>> Similarly, young people have been having sex since at least the time of
>> Hammurabi. I don't know if there was anything in his code outlawing it, but
>> if there was, I'll bet it didn't work.
>
>Would you guess that more young people are having sex now than in Hammurabi's
>time or even the 1940's?  I know it to be true.

I knew Hammurabi. Hammurabi was a friend of mine. Michael, you're no Hammurabi.
Seriously, though, I *really* doubt that sex among teenagers wasn't common in
Hammurabi's time, given the much lower life expectancy (30 years? I don't
know). You're probably right about the 40's, though.

> I suggest that sexual promiscuity is now more socially accepted than
>it was 25 years ago, and that is a bad thing.  I'm not suggesting we outlaw
>promiscuity, I just think that handing out condoms in the schools brings us
>further down that road.

Would you *please* try to differentiate between promiscuity and premarital sex.

>>                           Teenagers in the grip of raging hormones don't
>> *need* any encouragement to have sex.
>
>Right, they need encouragement to abstain.
>
>
>> They're *going* to do it anyway.
>
>Baloney.  They're only going to do it if they are taught that it's ok.

And I guess they are only going to commit suicide if tehy are taught that it is
OK, too?

>What is your proof that handing out condoms in schools will reduce the number
>of cases of STD's or unwanted pregnancies?

To quote from Andrew L. Shapiro, _We're number One!_:

 One in ten American young women age 15 to 19 (one in five who are sexually
 active) becomes pregnant each year. This rate, the highest of the nineteen
 major industrial nations, is not due to an unusual amount of sexual activity
 among U.S. teen-agers, but rather to inadequate sex education and lack of
 access to contraceptives. The United States has twice as many teen-age
 pregnancies per capita as the United Kingdom, three times as many as Sweden,
 and more than six times as many as the Netherlands...

So you see that even with the oh-so-awful modern morality, one can do much
better than the US are doing now.

Matthias

-----
Matthias Neeracher                                   neeri@iis.ethz.ch
   "There once was an Age of Reason, but we've progressed beyond it."
                                   -- Ayn Rand, _Atlas Shrugged_