From: silva@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Holly Silva)
Subject: Re: Re: Americans! *smile*
Organization: Stanford Univ. Earth Sciences
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 22:44:35 GMT

(Reykja Sigurdsson) writes:

>> >>I sense that stock anti-americanism and attendant contempt for 
>> >>american patriotism is less rooted in any intrinsic European wisdom or
>> >>modesty than in a fairly petty, vicious desire to see the US in trouble.
>
>         This sounds like an emotional reaction rather than anything that
>can be substantiated. 

	An emotional reaction is not necessarily an unsubstantiated
one, nor is it necessarily difficult to substantiate. Your response to 
my article for example, was full of politically correct, cheerleading
responses to Jon Corelis' disagreements with my views on this subject.	
Your response was one of several such substance-deficient 'rebuttals'
that have been posted to this thread by European posters. (I'm
assuming you are Icelandic as your name would indicate) Insofar as it
was substance-deficient, your response was not rooted in any intrinsic 
source of wisdom. It was also fairly petty in tone. As an individual 
example, particularly as one who clearly thinks he speaks for a large
number of non-Americans, your post tends to substantiate my statements.


>Why is it that those who disagree with the American
>value system aren't supposed to say anything? 
>
	Your re-wording of my statement above to read that 
"those who disagree with the American value system aren't supposed
to say anything" is intellectually dishonest, and self-serving. That you 
chose to re-word it in this way, completely bastardizing its original
meaning, strongly suggests you have no valid, honest answer to the
statement as it stood. 
	

>          Somehow when Reagan made nationalism
>fashionable, it was suddenly okay to assassinate leaders of other countries, 
>with whom this one disagreed. It also became okay to raid Grenada (anyone
>who believed that crap about the medical students must be intentionally 
>kidding themselves), manipulate elections in both the Philippines and 
>Nicaragua (both leaders, Violeta Chimorro and whatsername are nothing more
>than CIA lapdogs), ignore domestic problems and look for more defenseless 
>countries to take over. 
>
 	1) Your unsubstantiated slurs against Violeta Chamorro and 
Corazon Aquino are gross and unacceptable. Both these women lost their
husbands at the hands of U.S. backed dictators; I doubt you've lost
so much as a night's sleep on account of Uncle Sam.
> 
	2) The shennanigans you've referred to above (assasination of
heads of state, manipulation of elections, etc.) occurred long before
Reagan came to power, and will continue long after the last Republican
has died. They are effects of power, and the will to use it in an
unjust manner.
>
>> 	You've never listened to Common Cause or People for the American
>> Way have you?
>
>         They are considered to be communist sympathizers and have been
>continually hassled by the FBI. 
>
>> 
	Hasn't shut them up though, has it?

>> 	The Left or Liberal side of the political spectrum has
>> allowed patriotism and pride in America to be exppropriate by the
	[...the far right].
>
>        Bull-cookies! It isn't the left. It is the *right* that has 
>caused these problems. 
>
	Bullshit yourself kid. The left in the US has failed to 
temper the far-Right and has failed to appeal to the American masses.
The Liberal side of the politcal spectrum in this country _has_ allowed
the Right to take over _because_ it was dominated by people who were too
dainty, and too fine to bother to pay attention to the needs and desires 
of the American electorate. The willful, self-destructive weakness of the
left is as much a source of Right-wing power abuse as are the Right-wingers
themselves.

[Statement to the effect that non-American's willingness to criticize
us, our government and all aspects of our culture without distinction
is]
>> 	borne of an excessive willingness to ignore the hegemonic,
>> 	violent tendencies within their own societies.
>
>         Right. When you can't justify your own position, attack someone
>else. Hmmmmm. 


	Hmmm.... Justifying my own position on this issue is not 
problematic. Getting an honest, hubris-free response out of Europeans
when they are confronted with the observation above is, I'm afraid, a great
deal more difficult.
--
======================================================================
|| Holly Silva			I have nothing terribly clever to say||
|| Applied Earth Sciences	today.  You're in luck.		     ||
|| Stanford University						     ||
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