HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kevin@clsi.COM (Kevin Cameron)
Subject: Re:  ALERT! Anti-gun meeting in NoVA
Originator: kevin@dubhe
Reply-To: kevin@clsi.com
Organization: CAD Language Systems Inc.
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 92 16:03:07 GMT


In article <63066@mimsy.umd.edu>, purtilo@cs.umd.edu (Jim Purtilo) writes:
> In article <1992Dec26.200810.6222@clsi.COM> kevin@clsi.com writes:
> >You didn't answer the question.
> 
> Look, Kev.  We've iterated on this three times now, and each time you bleat
> that the only path to crime prevention is gun control.

I didn't say that either. The best prevention is not to create the criminals
in the first place - but I'm sure you think that is too expensive.

> Once again, with gusto:
> if you lock up career criminals when they do crime --- whether or not armed --- 
> then you are preventing all sorts of crimes (not just ones of violence) that
> would have been committed by this professional had he or she been allowed to
> walk.  Why don't YOU explain how taking this criminal off the streets is NOT
> crime prevention?

It only prevents repetition, it does not prevent the first offenece.

> [And to answer your most immediate question above: isn't
> it painfully clear that no matter what system we have that bad guys are free
> until caught?  That does not seem to be a terribly deep observation.]

Yes, they are free until caught in any system - but you want to guarantee that
they can buy guns as well.

> I'm starting to get the sense that you aren't terribly serious in this 
> discussion.

I havn't noticed you actually discuss much - you don't answer questions, and you
spout NRA dogma.

> Is it your intent to distrupt discussion on dc.general, instead
> of allowing participants to exchange facts, experiences and ideas -- and maybe
> coming up with a constuctive idea or two?

As if you would listen ?

> Enough thoughtful people have tuned
> out as it is.  I still think we should take this elsewhere

dc.talk.guns

> My point is simply that we should on crime control.  Blather about gun control 
> only serves to distract from the problems we should all face squarely together.
> If it is truly your intent to prevent crime, then finding brand new ways to go
> after people who are already obeying the law -- and requiring yet more resources
> to police new laws that combat a statistically minor part of the overall crime
> problem -- does not serve us.

A question on prevention Jim:


Do you use condoms, or do you support abortion ?



Kev.

-- 
Newsgroups: dc.general
From: steves@dcatlas.dot.gov (Steve Summers)
Subject: Re: Roller Blade Street Hockey
Reply-To: Stephen Summers <dcatlas!steves@uunet.uu.net>
 Organization: NHTSA Data Center, Washington, D.C., USA
Organization: U.S Dept. of Transportation
Distribution: dc
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 13:52:27 GMT

dsc3jfs@imc10.med.navy.mil (John Skoda) writes:

> Does anyone have a league going?  Can anybody point me in the right
>direction to get to a league/club/etc...  If not there must be enough
>interest to start one...
>--

Contact WAR, Washington Area Rollerskaters.  They have a rollerhockey league
as well as conducting races, lessons, sloloms (sp?), and more.  The club is
non-profit, meets several times a week and issues a monthly newsletter.  You
do not have to join to skate with them.  Unfortunately, I do not have the
phone number handy, but they usually are listed in the Post's Weekend section.
You can probably get the phone number from any skate shop.               


Newsgroups: dc.general
From: feit@ERA.COM (Mark Feit)
Subject: Honor Among Thieves?
Summary: Know this band?
Organization: Engineering Research Associates, Vienna, VA
Distribution: dc
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 13:28:26 GMT


Okay, here's a question for those who are familiar with the music
scene around here:

Many moons ago while I was working at a radio station in another city,
Flaming Pie Records sent us an album called "When the World Runs Fast"
by Honor Among Thieves.  Does anybody know if the band around here by
the same name is the same group?  Have they put out any more albums?
Do they play a good live show?

						- Mark

 ................................. .................................
: Mark A. Feit             KD4TAJ : Internet: feit@era.com          :
: Engineering Research Associates : USENET: ...!uunet!era!feit      :
 ................................. .................................
		   "Keep BSD Free -- Boycott AT&T"
From: EZ-as-pi@cup.portal.com (Bruce Robert Gilson)
Newsgroups: dc.general
Subject: Looking for place to do part-time craftwork
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 16:43:42 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: usa

I am trying to do craft work in my
city apartment living room.  Sometimes
I would like to have use of a basement
or the equivalent for things that are
not suitable to be done in my living
room.  I am interested in talking 
to anyone within reasonabe walking
distance from the Metro.  Thanks, 
Deb Gilson (EZ's wife).
(Please respond by E-mail with Deb's
name in the title if possible so she
can be informed of the response -
Thanks.)
From: m0257@tnc.UUCP (DAVID NILLES)
Newsgroups: dc.general
Subject: Re: Wheres a good gym in Greenbelt, C.P., S.S. ?
Date: 1 Jan 93 23:16:25 GMT
Reply-To: m0257@tnc.UUCP (DAVID NILLES)
Distribution: usa
Organization: The Next Challenge, Fairfax, Va.


On a slightly different topic....
 
Does anyone know of a good place to learn Karate?  or some other
martial art?
 
Dave
m0257@tnc.UUCP
-- 
The Next Challenge - Public Access Unix in Northern Va. - Washington D.C.
703-803-0391 To log in for trial and account info.
From: snolan@postmaster@hq.af.mil (Scott D Nolan)
Newsgroups: dc.general
Subject: When exactly is Interop in DC?
Date: 28 Dec 92 15:00:22 GMT
Reply-To: snolan@marge.hq.af.mil
Organization: 7th Communications Group

I know that Interop is going to be here in the DC area
in March, but does anyone have the exact dates and
info on how one can get registered?

Thanks in advance,
Scott Nolan
snolan@marge.hq.af.mil

==============================================================

Tyson's Corner: A Monument to Capitolism.

			- no K-Mart shoppers allowed
From: purtilo@cs.umd.edu (Jim Purtilo)
Newsgroups: dc.general
Subject: Re: ALERT! Anti-gun meeting in NoVA
Date: 23 Dec 92 16:59:24 GMT
Organization: U of Maryland, Dept. of Computer Science, Coll. Pk., MD 20742

In article <1992Dec23.152242.13475@clsi.COM> kevin@clsi.com writes:
>You obviously didn't read what I wrote.

On the contrary.  I watch people who promote views dangerous to this 
society very closely.

>>  ... all on the premise that this honest citizen *might* become a criminal?  
>> That he or she may *may* someday be irresponsible?
>
>Most criminals start out as 'honest' citizens.

There you have it, folks, we all better be locked up before we become criminals.

>> Strong enforcement of existing laws would get offenders off the
>> streets the first time you catch them, instead of allowing them out to commit
>> hundreds, if not thousands, of crimes -- some of them heinous enough to repor
>> on the evening news. 
>
>By definition that is not prevention.

Excuse me?  Stopping the crimes by people who demonstrate a willingness 
to do violence, instead of releasing them to Kev so they are free to commit
all the crimes they can get away with, is "not prevention"???

Newsgroups: dc.general
From: russotto@eng.umd.edu (Matthew T. Russotto)
Subject: Re: ALERT! Anti-gun meeting in NoVA
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 92 03:37:12 GMT
Organization: Project GLUE, University of Maryland, College Park

In article <1992Dec22.150333.7718@clsi.COM> kevin@clsi.com writes:
>
>In article <1992Dec22.025703.7713@eng.umd.edu>, russotto@eng.umd.edu (Matthew T. Russotto) writes:
>> In article <1992Dec21.200053.918@clsi.COM> kevin@clsi.com writes:
>> >
>> >Excessive paranoia on the part of the gun owners will not help.
>> 
>> It isn't paranoia when someone's really out to get you, Kev.  And your
>> IMHO is sufficient evidence that YOU are out to get gunowners, or at
>> least support those who are.
>
>It is "excessive" paranoia if you fight all attempts to restrict handgun sales.

Even when those attempts are being made by the same people who have
stated openly that they aim to ban all handguns, and want severe
restrictions on other weapons as well?  Seems like prudence to me, not
paranoia.  When someone wants the whole pie, you don't stand idly by
while they take pieces.

>I like shooting as a hobby, and I intend to buy a .22 Ruger sometime soon for
>target practice. When I asked the sales staff at "On Target" if they had any
>.38 Supers they said "we don't sell many of them - it's more of a target gun",
>i.e. the guns they have are mostly designed for killing people.

You read a lot into that statement, now, didn't you?

>> BTW, would you generalize "remove the means of offence" to rape?
>
>Drawing silly parallels is not going to help your argument.
>
>Kev.

It was only intended to counter your reference to "removing the means
of the offence" as a method which was somehow obviously superior to
after the fact punishment.

-- 
Matthew T. Russotto	russotto@eng.umd.edu	russotto@wam.umd.edu
Some news readers expect "Disclaimer:" here.
Just say NO to police searches and seizures.  Make them use force.
(not responsible for bodily harm resulting from following above advice)
Newsgroups: dc.general
From: lud@wam.umd.edu ()
Subject: Street Hockey in DC/MD
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1992 14:40:18 GMT



Does anyone know of any informal street hockey games/leagues or simply people
getting together on weekends.  I would appreciate any information on people
who play street hockey especially in the DC/ Maryland (college park) area
.
Newsgroups: dc.general
From: nklein@Qstar.COM (Norman Klein)
Subject: Access to Lexus/Nexus (??)
Organization: Qstar Technologies
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 21:06:17 GMT

I am looking for information about the costs and availability of accessing
the Lexus/Nexus information retrieval database. I was also wondering if
it is possible to use it through a local library or other public institution.

Thanks!!
From: sheph@wam.umd.edu (pale blue eyes)
Newsgroups: dc.general
Subject: local bbs numbers?
Date: 27 Dec 92 23:08:54 GMT
Distribution: dc
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park

does anyone have a list of local bbs numbers that s/he could forward
to me?  or even a source where i could find such a list?

many thanks ...

-- 
 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
| stephanie j. bartosz         sheph@wam.umd.edu          univ. of maryland | 
|    "come on aboard.  i promise you, we won't hurt the horse." - R.E.M.    |  
|   do you have r.e.m. boots?  (or r. hitchcock or u2 ...?)  let me know!   |
From: EZ-as-pi@cup.portal.com (Bruce Robert Gilson)
Newsgroups: dc.general
Subject: Re: where can i find japanese books in DC ?
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 92 15:30:49 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: usa

I was also going to recommend the Ginza
but was beaten to the punch. You may
also want to try Arise! in Takoma Park
(actually just the DC side of the DC/
Maryland line), and the Foreign Languages
Book Store in Georgetown.
Newsgroups: dc.general
From: sram@seas.gwu.edu (Siddharth R. Ram)
Subject: Re: Goodbye dc.general
Organization: George Washington University
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1992 19:29:18 GMT

I preferred the gun control crap to the goodbye dc.general crap ;->

Siddharth
Newsgroups: dc.general
From: drury@helix.nih.gov (Richard Drury)
Subject: Re: ALERT! Anti-gun meeting in NoVA
Organization: National Institutes of Health, Bethesda
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 23:06:01 GMT

terry@prcrs.prc.com (Terry Cunningham) writes:
>
>Once again I will use my auto licensing analogy:  We don't let everyone have
>a car 

Oh yes we do.  You pay your money, you get your car.  Nobody at
the dealership cares about your driving skills or your safety 
record.  In fact, if all you want to do with your car is drive
it on your own property, you *never* have to worry about
licensing, insurance, driving tests, etc.

>and let them loose on the roads, 

This is where the controls kick in, and the situation is roughly
analogous for guns.  If you just want to own a gun, there should
be minimal restrictions.  If you want to carry your gun around
in public places, appropriate controls such as some form of
skill/safety certification and a criminal record check should
kick in.  This is exactly how it already works in many States. 
In fact, if anything, the situation is generally more restrictive 
for handguns than for automobiles.

Your analogy is a good one, but it does not make the case for
further restrictions on gun ownership.
--
Richard A. Drury
drury@helix.nih.gov
Newsgroups: dc.general
From: russotto@eng.umd.edu (Matthew T. Russotto)
Subject: Re: ALERT! Anti-gun meeting in NoVA
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 92 23:53:09 GMT
Organization: Project GLUE, University of Maryland, College Park

In article <1992Dec30.105401.2658@alw.nih.gov> drury@helix.nih.gov (Richard Drury) writes:
>terry@prcrs.prc.com (Terry Cunningham) writes:
>>drury@helix.nih.gov (Richard Drury) writes:
>>> 
>>> Oh yes we do.  You pay your money, you get your car.  Nobody at
>>> the dealership cares about your driving skills or your safety 
>>> record.  In fact, if all you want to do with your car is drive
>>> it on your own property, you *never* have to worry about
>>> licensing, insurance, driving tests, etc.
>>
>>Then a minor question - how did you get that car to your property from
>>the dealership?  
>
>I don't think the dealers drive them from the factories to
>the dealerships, so I guess there must be some way to move cars
>around from point to point without actually driving them.

Easier than that.  Dealers don't need to register the car to drive
it-- they have those removable dealer tags which they can put on any
car.  So you pay your money, they can deliver the car by driving it if
they want to.

-- 
Matthew T. Russotto	russotto@eng.umd.edu	russotto@wam.umd.edu
Some news readers expect "Disclaimer:" here.
Just say NO to police searches and seizures.  Make them use force.
(not responsible for bodily harm resulting from following above advice)
Newsgroups: dc.general
From: dbader@eng.umd.edu (David Bader)
Subject: SF-171 software package?
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 14:58:37 GMT
Organization: Professional Student, University of Maryland, College Park
Originator: dbader@mountaindew.eng.umd.edu



Does anyone out there know about software that will fill out an SF-171 government
form?  

reply to dbader@eng.umd.edu

thanks.
From: purtilo@cs.umd.edu (Jim Purtilo)
Newsgroups: dc.general
Subject: Re:  ALERT! Anti-gun meeting in NoVA
Date: 26 Dec 92 22:28:51 GMT
Organization: U of Maryland, Dept. of Computer Science, Coll. Pk., MD 20742

In article <1992Dec26.200810.6222@clsi.COM> kevin@clsi.com writes:
>In article <63053@mimsy.umd.edu>, purtilo@cs.umd.edu (Jim Purtilo) writes:
>> Let's try to illustrate what Kev does not see.  Someone "Joe" does a crime an
>> gets caught.  Tragic, but crime simply cannot be eradicated.  At issue is
>> how we respond to this as a society.  I would like to beef up law enforcement
>> to help catch Joe; straighten out and support the judicial system so Joe can
>> get a rapid trial; and, should Joe be found guilty of the crime, ensure that
>> Joe is rapidly sentenced and pays a substantial penalty.  If the crime was on
>> of violence, then I believe "substantial" means really doing time, not walkin
>> away with probation and an admonition that Joe not do this again.  A swift an
>> certain jail sentence precludes --- prevents --- Joe from making a living fro
>> crime even after having been caught.
>
>So Joe gets to commit as much armed robbery (or whatever) as he can until
>he is caught ?
>
>You didn't answer the question.

Look, Kev.  We've iterated on this three times now, and each time you bleat
that the only path to crime prevention is gun control.  Once again, with gusto:
if you lock up career criminals when they do crime --- whether or not armed --- 
then you are preventing all sorts of crimes (not just ones of violence) that
would have been committed by this professional had he or she been allowed to
walk.  Why don't YOU explain how taking this criminal off the streets is NOT
crime prevention?  [And to answer your most immediate question above: isn't
it painfully clear that no matter what system we have that bad guys are free
until caught?  That does not seem to be a terribly deep observation.]

I'm starting to get the sense that you aren't terribly serious in this 
discussion.  Is it your intent to distrupt discussion on dc.general, instead
of allowing participants to exchange facts, experiences and ideas -- and maybe
coming up with a constuctive idea or two?  Enough thoughtful people have tuned
out as it is.  I still think we should take this elsewhere, perhaps to the
list Doug offered us?  (I signed up to take discussion there ... how about
you, Kev?  Or would continuing this discussion there fail to meet your agenda
for dc.general?)

My point is simply that we should on crime control.  Blather about gun control 
only serves to distract from the problems we should all face squarely together.
If it is truly your intent to prevent crime, then finding brand new ways to go
after people who are already obeying the law -- and requiring yet more resources
to police new laws that combat a statistically minor part of the overall crime
problem -- does not serve us.

Jim
From: tucker@mitre.org (William Tucker)
Newsgroups: dc.general
Subject: Re: where can i find japanese books in DC ?
Keywords: Re: where can i find japanese books in DC ?
Date: 24 Dec 92 19:00:37 GMT
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA, USA


  The Ginza sells many items Japanese including books. I
  believe that Borders Bookstores also carry foreign language
  books, call them and see if they've got Japanese flavored 
  ones.

  William T.


.standard disclaimer
From: dsc3jfs@imc10.med.navy.mil (John Skoda)
Newsgroups: dc.general
Subject: Re: Roller Blade Street Hockey
Date: 29 Dec 92 13:53:27 GMT
Distribution: dc
Organization: Electronic Learning Facilitator, inc


 Does anyone have a league going?  Can anybody point me in the right
direction to get to a league/club/etc...  If not there must be enough
interest to start one...
--

-- John F Skoda                              The nice thing about standards   
-- electronic learning facilitators, inc.    is that there are so many to
-- Bethesda, MD                              choose from, and if you dont
-- dsc3jfs@imc10.med.navy.mil                see one you like, wait 'till
with DISCLAIMER_PACKAGE;                     next year...
Newsgroups: dc.general
From: kevin@clsi.COM (Kevin Cameron)
Subject: Re: ALERT! Anti-gun meeting in NoVA
Originator: kevin@dubhe
Reply-To: kevin@clsi.com
Organization: CAD Language Systems Inc.
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 92 16:49:44 GMT


In article <63037@mimsy.umd.edu>, purtilo@cs.umd.edu (Jim Purtilo) writes:
> In article <1992Dec23.152242.13475@clsi.COM> kevin@clsi.com writes:
> >You obviously didn't read what I wrote.
> 
> On the contrary.  I watch people who promote views dangerous to this 
> society very closely.

Get a mirror.

> >>  ... all on the premise that this honest citizen *might* become a criminal?  
> >> That he or she may *may* someday be irresponsible?
> >
> >Most criminals start out as 'honest' citizens.
> 
> There you have it, folks, we all better be locked up before we become criminals.

No, only the brain-dead.

> >> Strong enforcement of existing laws would get offenders off the
> >> streets the first time you catch them, instead of allowing them out to commit
> >> hundreds, if not thousands, of crimes -- some of them heinous enough to repor
> >> on the evening news. 
> >
> >By definition that is not prevention.
> 
> Excuse me?  Stopping the crimes by people who demonstrate a willingness 
> to do violence, instead of releasing them to Kev so they are free to commit
> all the crimes they can get away with, is "not prevention"???

Want to define "demonstrate a willingness to do violence" for us ?

Kev.
-- 
From: Don.Noll@p3425.f70.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Don Noll)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: dc.general
Subject: Goodbye dc.general
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 11:02:58 -0500

On 12/22/92, David Gursky said something very interesting to all on the subject
of Goodbye dc.general. 

  DG> Personally, I'm tired of all this crap on dc.general about Gun Control
  DG> and I'm unsubscribing to this group.  There are a number of
  DG> appropriate newsgroups for this stuff and I'm chagrined I have to wade
  DG> through crap about rulings by the Connecticut courts because of the
  DG> poor manners of other people on this group.
  DG> --- MacWoof 1.5.3
 
I have to agree Dave.  Most of the last few hundred messages have
little to do with DC.  I just have not read most of them.
I am sure there are a hundred or two people who read this group that feel
the same way.
From: m0102@tnc.UUCP (FRANK NEY)
Newsgroups: dc.general
Subject: Re: Unrelated Gun Question
Date: 4 Jan 93 02:10:58 GMT
Reply-To: m0102@tnc.UUCP (FRANK NEY)
Distribution: dc
Organization: The Next Challenge, Fairfax, Va.


Be prepared for severe culture shock.

MD considers guns to be politically incorrect.  There is a waiting
period for handguns, not sure about long guns, and there is a list of
forbidden handguns (supposedly a SNS ban).

Using a gun in home defense is also not PC.  You are likely to become
very poor defending yourself from police and DAs making a name for
themselves.

And forget about CWPs.  The one person who decides on these permits is
a State Trooper Captain who is a paid shill for HCI.  The father of a
friend of mine is a jewlery courier.  In the past twelve years he has
been robbed ten times and shot eight of those times.  He was denied a
permit for 'insufficient reason.'

My advice: move back to VT.  Or at least VA.

Frank Ney N4ZHG EMT-A  NRA ILA GOA CCRTKBA "M-O-U-S-E"
Commandant and Acting President, Northern Virginia Free Militia
Send e-mail for an application and more information
----------------------------------------------------------------
"Whether the authorities be invaders or merely local tyrants, the 
effect of such [gun] laws is to place the individual at the mercy of 
the state, unable to resist."
       - Robert Heinlein, in a 1949 letter concerning "Red Planet"
-- 
The Next Challenge - Public Access Unix in Northern Va. - Washington D.C.
703-803-0391 To log in for trial and account info.
Newsgroups: dc.general