HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: MANDTBACKA@finabo.abo.fi (Mats Andtbacka Ktf92)
Subject: Re: Why?
Organization: Unorganized Usenet Postings UnInc.
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 10:24:02 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.23


      Is this somebody putting out a baited question just to get the
flames going, or is it *actually* another i-won't-read-no-fuckin'-FAQ
idiot whom we can safely ignore? If so, will we?

In <92315.220039SXS52@psuvm.psu.edu> <SXS52@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
                      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hmmm... Now where did I see that address before...

-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
 These aren't really my opinions, but those of my split personality - he's the
       only one of me who's learned how to use the computers properly.
"Don't damn me when I speak a piece of mind, 'cos silence isn't golden when ..."
From: rtsumn01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
Subject: Re: To all christians...
Date: 11 Nov 92 22:12:55 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville

In article <4f0=7iS00iV20=4n52@andrew.cmu.edu>, "Andrew N. Westmeyer" <aw36+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
> Hey guys,
>      What's going down?  I have studied Greek and Roman culture
> extensively, and am fluid in both Greek and Latin.  I have translated
> much of the NT from the original Greek, so I'd like to make a little
> comment concerning Paul's orientation.  He was straight. 

I am curious as to how translating NT from the original Greek makes you
more competent to comment on this. Where in _The Bible_ does it say
anything about Paul's sexuality, beyond what we have to infer? Is there
something in the texts you wroked with that is left out of translation?

> When you
> consider that the Bible is the most extensively criticized book in
> existence, about which more has been written than any other book, it
> figures that an occasional idea becomes popular which is largely
> improbable.  Such is a case with that "camel through the eye of a
> needle" story, for which a Jewish (?) scholar suggested wrongly that
> Jesus was referring idiomaticly to a difficult pass.  Paul has made
> several ambiguous statements; bible scholars devote their lives to
> suggesting explanations to these.  It was a noble effort of whoever
> suggested that Paul was gay, but it is incompatible with too many other
> things he said.  
>      Andrew

Which of his statements is it incompatible with? Chapter & verse, please.

--Semhaza 
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
From: rtsumn01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
Subject: Re: reality
Date: 12 Nov 92 23:59:55 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville

In article <of0U4By00WBOQ=lFhK@andrew.cmu.edu>, "Andrew N. Westmeyer" <aw36+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
> Hey guys,
>      What's going down?  If we could get off this sexuality topic for a
> little bit.  I see that all the arguments trace back to something even
> more fundamental.  I'd like to see some posts of people saying whether
> they believe in subjective or objective reality, and why.  For the
> purpose of convention, how about these as definitions:  Subjective
> reality means that truth is defined by the individual; in other words,
> something may be true for you, but not necessarily true for someone
> else.  Objective reality means that truth is predefined somehow, and it
> is the same for everyone; in other words, if something is objectively
> true, and you don't believe it, then your wrong.  These are some pretty
> short definitions, and admittedly there are some loopholes, but please,
> let's not get so literal.  I just want to hear some input as to which
> people think is correct.
>      Andrew

Something's got to have objective reality, otherwise we wouldn't all be
able to interact so well. That is, assuming I'm not just a figment of
your imagination :)

Generally I assume that there *is* objective reality, because it saves
me from the quandries of "is anybody there?". Yes, there is truth. The 
truth is that I am sitting in front of a thing I call a "computer" and
if anyone were to walk into the room at this moment, they would see
something similar. I choose to believe this. If someone came in and 
insisted that they saw a cucumber, I would wonder about their mental 
state or their command of the English language. The cucumber would not
be Truth.

I have the feeling that you are driving towards something else...

--Semhaza (The Antichrist)
Experience is a wonderful thing:  it allows you to recognize a mistake
when you make it again.
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 08:57:52 EST
From: <WCE2@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
Subject: Re: To all christians...
 <g91a2724.30.721579058@giraffe.ru.ac.za> <Uf0l63O00aw949E31x@andrew.cmu.edu>
 <1992Nov13.051212.17879@sol.ctr.columbia.edu>

I think it's interesting that Rabbi Y does not seem to have expressed any
firm opinion on homosexuality, perhaps because he felt that self-righteous
hypocrites, tax collectors, and rich people were in far more danger of going
to hell than gay people.  IMHreading, he'd have probably said, fine, confine
homosexuals to hell, assuming that your own sex life and drives are above
reproach.  Not being gay or homophobic myself, I'd be reluctant to pass any
firm judgments, but much of the anti-gay rhetoric I've seen *suggests*
unresolved sexual anxieties on the part of the accuser.  Maybe *that's* what
Rabbi Y was writing in the sand before he challenged the crowd to cast the
first stone at the woman caught in adultery.
.
Bill Ellis (wce2 @ psuvm.psu.edu)                 Editor, FOAFtale News
Penn State, Hazleton Campus                       Voice: 717-450-3026
Hazleton, PA 18201-1291                           Fax: 717-450-3182
"If I am the Devil's child, I will live then from the Devil.  The only right is
 what is after my constitution; the only wrong what is against it."
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
From: rtsumn01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Subject: Re: Nitzche
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 02:26:46 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville

In article <1992Nov4.024515.10725@news.unomaha.edu>, phoenix@cwis.unomaha.edu (Shannon Chris Saltzman) writes:
> "God is dead"Nitzche
> "Nitzche is dead"God
> Thankyou for your time
> 
> How many of you really believe any of this?
> I hear a lot of arguing but no real beliefs!
> Surely you didnt just set this up to argue with moralistic idiots who's
> only past time is to try to get you to repent by quoting a Bible you
> dont read did you? If you did,have fun,if you didnt then how about
> a statement or two.
> Forget the bullshit blasphemies lets hear some real beliefs!

Really, what is this doing here? Declarations regarding the morbidity of
deities seem more appropriately directed towards alt.atheism.

If you must know, I don't believe that "God is dead" because:

1. God (as found in popular culture) never existed and thus could not die.
2. God (as found in popular culture) would not be capable of dying assuming he
had existed in the first place.
3. God (as I use the word) has not yet ceased to be, hence has not "died."

However, I do take it as a matter of faith that Nietzche did in fact live and
has in fact died.

Finally, I believe that you are not very coherent. This is a *real* belief.

--Semhaza (The Antichrist)
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
From: locklin@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Misquamicus)
Subject: Nice FTP site
Organization: Campus Crusade for Cthulhu
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 04:23:33 GMT
X-Posted-From: titan.ucc.umass.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

A net friend gave me this FTP adress. It has lots of magick files in
/pub/magick

slopoke.mlb.semi.harris.com

FAQable? It is a nice resource...

-Misquamicus

 
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
From: phoenix@cwis.unomaha.edu (Shannon Chris Saltzman)
Subject: Re: Nitzche
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 10:54:00 GMT

As amazed as I am with the thought that must have went
into the statement that I am not coherent I must sign off
permanently as this newsgroup seems to be nothng
more than a mild cure for boredom.
thankyou for your time.

-- 
From the coffee table of MR SHANNON SALTZMAN
"Is doggie heavan kitty hell?"
     Stephanie Phoenix(age 6)
This in everyway represents the authors opinion!!!(take it if ya want)
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
From: donnell@tuna.micro.umn.edu (BogusMan)
Subject: Re: Satan
Keywords: Natas
Organization: none
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 03:25:44 GMT

In article <Nov.9.19.50.31.1992.25571@andromeda.rutgers.edu> graff@andromeda.rutgers.edu (Eugene M Graff) writes:
>!skcus nataS

ytidiputs seod oS

					--xeduJ--

Newsgroups: alt.satanism
From: locklin@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Misquamicus)
Subject: Re: To all christians...
Keywords: (Oh boy! Someone else to pick on!)
Organization: Campus Crusade for Cthulhu
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 04:47:44 GMT
X-Posted-From: titan.ucc.umass.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <wezu5HO00aw5EHAZZa@andrew.cmu.edu> "Andrew N. Westmeyer" <aw36+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>Homosexuality is wrong.  This is an absolute (a bad word to some
>satanists), in other words, independant of one's religious affiliation. 

Ahem. What do you men by "wrong"? Like, morally wrong? Last I checked there 
were no moral absolutes.

>By homosexuality, I mean homosexual BEHAVIOR, NOT ORIENTATION. 

Oh, how PC of you. So its OK to be a faggot so long as you stay closeted?

>Psychologists today tell us that orientation may be genetic; thus it can
>not be the persons fault.  In this regard, homosexual orientation is no
>worse than having brown hair.  Activity is another story...

This is interesting. I have read that some of the glands are shaped differently
in homosexual men, but this is really no idication of genetic transmission.
The shrinkological theories _I_ have heard all give various theorizings that
homosexual men have some kind of difficulty dealing feelings about the father &
etc... Could you provide a reference? If it is purely psychological, is it
"wrong"?

>     As far as people using God to support anti-homosexual beliefs. 
>First of all, homosexuals should not be treated worse/differently than
>other people.  Paul tells us in his Epistles that homosexuality (there
>are two different words for this in the Greek, but that also is another
>story) is wrong.  To all Christians, this must be so.  If a particular
>denomination feels differently, then they must be reading an extremely
>poor translation of the Bible.  I myself would hardly quote the Bible in
>attacking homosexuality (ACTIVITY, remember), but since you asked...

I doubt as the writers in the bible would notice the subtleties of homosexual
"orientation" as opposed to actual sodomy. Sodomites were treated rather
harshly as I recall. Sodom & Gomorrah? This is surely an example of harsh
treatment of homosexuals.

Say, are lesbian activities specifically prohibited in The Bible? In victorian
times Queen Vic. wouldn't sign a bill prohibiting lesbianism because she had
never heard of such a thing. Buggery remained against the law tho.

CMU eh? I worked there last summer & can understand why you are so insistant
at proclaiming that homosexuals should not be treated any differently; there
is an awful lot of them there. (Don't go to the 3rd floor bathroom in the
building across the green from the big library. I made the mistake once.
Yeauchhh!!!!!!)

-Misquamicus
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
From: g91a2724@giraffe.ru.ac.za (MR GJ ANDREWS)
Subject: Re: Satan
Keywords: Natas
Organization: Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 12:11:02 GMT

In article <1992Nov10.032544.4910@news2.cis.umn.edu> donnell@tuna.micro.umn.edu (BogusMan) writes:
>From: donnell@tuna.micro.umn.edu (BogusMan)
>Subject: Re: Satan
>Keywords: Natas
>Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 03:25:44 GMT
>In article <Nov.9.19.50.31.1992.25571@andromeda.rutgers.edu> graff@andromeda.rutgers.edu (Eugene M Graff) writes:
>>!skcus nataS
>
>ytidiputs seod oS
>
>					--xeduJ--
>
siht fo tou em evael

ytidiputS
From: drparul@magna.ksu.ksu.edu (TRANSCEND  G O D)
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
Subject: why not humans transcends the feeling of gods
Date: 10 Nov 1992 12:26:32 -0600
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: magna.ksu.ksu.edu

 since barbarian times many humans conciouslu prays stones, cross, idols, carvings, etc. why the comprehension of most of the human never thought beyond that....           


  the gurus or experts from this group will be able to put some more light in to it



transcend god
From: marshall1198@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
Subject: Re: To all christians
Date: 13 Nov 92 14:12:00 -0600
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

> Your childish attempt at drawing a comparison between mathematics and morality
> holds no water. The existance of absolutes does not imply the existance of
> moral absolutes. Example of your "logic".

Is it Andrew who wrote this???  Anyway, the comparison is kind of weak. 

> Evan Marshall is a christian. Evan Marshall is a liar. Therefore all christains
> are liars. 

I am not a liar.

> If you are a scholar of the classics as you say, I suggest you study up on
> some early works on errors in logic.
> 
> As for your shrinkological reference, I asked for a reference on your assertion
> that homosexuality was genetic, you give a reference that says it is 
> psychological.
> (therefore you are a liar & hence a christain ;)

Please don't make that comparision.  Also, read the posting Homosexuality is
not Genetic, if you have not done so already.


Marshall
From: rtsumn01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
Subject: Re: To all christians...
Date: 11 Nov 92 01:15:12 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville

In article <1dpaouINNo93@clover.csv.warwick.ac.uk>, pyuaq@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Mr G S Sutherland) writes:

> The NT attacks are probably explained by the theory that St Paul was a
> homosexual. Hence, he often feels guilt towards his body, and condemns
> it (his flesh) frequently. With a founding father like that, what does
> one expect....

Actually I heard that he was a eunuch....

--Semhaza
From: MVS104@psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
Subject: Re:prophesies
Date: 6 Nov 92 11:40:43 GMT
Organization: Penn State University

In article <Bx78M5.HBI@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>, @expert.cc.purdue.edu
(adamsma@expert.cc.purdue.edu) says:
>
>Remember this though:  whether or not you believe doesn't change the fact that
>Jesus is the Son of God.  He did die for your sins, and He loves you.

Fact, eh? I didn't know that Jesus was proven to be the son of god,
or that god was even proven to exist yet. Why don't you prove these
"facts," then?

>Please don't think that I have a I'm-better-than-you attutide.  I'm not.
>Jesus died for me as well.  I have been suicidal and into pornography, but He
>still loves me.  He has brought peace to my life.  I hope you'll let Him do
>the same for you.  If I can help, let me know.

You certainly can help. Prove that your god exists, and that jesus is
what you say he is. And then tell your god to stop ignoring me. I called
on him enough times before I stopped believing in him.

Martin Schulte
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
From: jdh@math.psu.edu (Jeremy D Hall)
Subject: Re: Why?
Organization: Penn State Department of Mathematics
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 21:19:56 GMT

In article <92316.111033MVS104@psuvm.psu.edu> <MVS104@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>In article <1992Nov11.102402.16981@abo.fi>, MANDTBACKA@finabo.abo.fi (Mats
>Andtbacka Ktf92) says:
>>
>>      Is this somebody putting out a baited question just to get the
>>flames going, or is it *actually* another i-won't-read-no-fuckin'-FAQ
>>idiot whom we can safely ignore? If so, will we?
>>
>>In <92315.220039SXS52@psuvm.psu.edu> <SXS52@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>>                      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>Hmmm... Now where did I see that address before...
>
>Hey, what do you have against penn state? It may be full of xian clubs,
>but not everyone here at main campus is a weak-willed xian.
>
>Martin Schulte

Hey, speaking of people here at PSU, does anyone here remember someone by
the name of Asmodeus (aka Quetz...no, Tlox...some Aztec god, the god of death,
I think).  I won't say his real name, lest he appear.  Anyway, I haven't seen
him on ANY of the groups he probably be on (when I had an account two years
ago, I think all we had was alt.pagan, maybe alt.satanism, I can't recall).

Jeremy Hall
Not a weak-willed Xian (doesn't that look like a Marvel comic?)
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 07:25:42 -0500 
From: "Andrew N. Westmeyer" <aw36+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: To all christians...
	<wezu5HO00aw5EHAZZa@andrew.cmu.edu>
	<Uf0_8J200iUxE_jKU1@andrew.cmu.edu>

Stephen Alan Sisson's post was utter piffle.  there is plenty wron with
the homosexual act.  First of all, I'm sure (I hope) that we all agree
that there is nothing wrong with pleasure, even in the sexual act.  Even
the Catholic Church has formally declared this.  The problem with the
homosexual act is that it denies the natural aspects of sex.  I know
that there are homosexual acts among animals, but there are other acts
among them which clearly indicate that they are apart from morality as
people are concerned.  So don't dodge the issue by using that appalingly
assinine argument.  One of the purposes of sex is to propagate.  This
cannot be done in the homosexual context.  Another aspect is the fact
that no matter how  you bend and twist, two penises will not enter each
other.  This denies sex as conventionally seen.  To deny reality is to
do an act of immorality.  Accept it.
Andrew
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
From: rtsumn01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Subject: Re: Questions
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 20:48:48 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Louisville

In article <1992Nov8.041512.5423@meaddata.com>, king@meaddata.com (Mike King) writes:
> I was wondering how many people(on this net) have actually taken part
> in a satanic ritual? 

Yes, of course.

> If so, what was it for? 

It was for Satan, of course :)

> Just wondering...Thanks

You're welcome,

--Semhaza
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 22:00:39 EST
From: <SXS52@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
Subject: Why?

May I inquire as to the WHY?  Why would you want torent your soul to hell?  Sec
ondly, how would I go about doing so?
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
From: g91a2724@giraffe.ru.ac.za (MR GJ ANDREWS)
Subject: Re: exorcism
Organization: Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 20:48:15 GMT

In article <g91a2724.37.721600737@giraffe.ru.ac.za> g91a2724@giraffe.ru.ac.za (MR GJ ANDREWS) writes:
>From: g91a2724@giraffe.ru.ac.za (MR GJ ANDREWS)
>Subject: exorcism
>Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 20:38:58 GMT
>Hi again folks!
>
>This is your bright and cheerful xian-type calling again. How has your day 
>been? Hope it was filled with lots of gay abandon! Me? Well since you are 
>all so interested - I picked some beuuuatiful flowers on my way to prayer 
>group. Then we had a worship service just for the hell (...oops sorry to 
>blaspheme!) of it.
>
>
>Actually, I want some juicy info on exorcism. Anybody had personal 
>experience - ha ha. Flame me all you want I love teasing you people. You 
>give such interesting insults. But don't forget the info on exorcism - and 
>it must be good (not in the moral sense).
>
>Love you all, my kookumses! Don't forget your bedtime prayers now.
>Greg


Greg, you woos you can't spell baeutiful!
From: 6500null@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu (Null Cypher)
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
Subject: Re: To all christians...
Date: 12 Nov 92 03:24:21 GMT

In article <0f0CrQC00aw_0WRUYg@andrew.cmu.edu> aw36+@andrew.cmu.edu (Andrew N. Westmeyer) writes:


>     There are no moral absolutes!  The act of saying that contradicts
>what you're saying!  It's like saying, "I don't know any words in
>English."  It's really quite simple.

Nice try but no cigar.  A moral absolute would be an Ethical rule,
whereas the statement 'there are no moral absolutes' is Meta-Ethical,
not Ethical.

In other words, the prohibition of moral absolutes is not itself a
moral absolute.


>  First acknowledge the existance of absolutes (eg, math).

No.

> Then, when an absolute is in contradiction with
>an action (or thought, etc; let's not skirt the issue), you have
>something immoral, esp with relation to religious matters, although
>science is not apart from morality either.

Not if the absolutes were never assumed - see above.

[stuff about homosexuality deleted]

speaking (or not) of homosexuality - how does one derive the so-called
moral absolute that homosexual activity is immoral?  Don't tell me that
you're supposed to get it out of the Bible because that is not an
adequate source of moral theory.
--
                                               --------------------------------
                                               Null - 6500null@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu
                                               --------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
From: locklin@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Lupo the Butcher)
Subject: Re: One fine day at the pub...
Organization: Campus Crusade for Cthulhu
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 19:10:01 GMT
X-Posted-From: titan.ucc.umass.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1dfdsfINNom5@master.cs.rose-hulman.edu> montgojw@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (II Jerry Montgomery) writes:
>PLEASE NOTE:  the following is not written by me, it is written by someone  
>who is using my account.  Please do not flame me!
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>I don't know if any of you really know anything about Cthulhu and friends.   
>That was a humorous little story, don't get me wrong, but I would like to  
>make a few points clear:

Cthulhu? WHo's that?

>  1: Yog Sothoth's appearence:  Yog Sothoth is a collection of slimy  
>silver spheres that continually collide and reform.  He has no eyes to  
>speak of, and any tentacles would not be tentacles in the ordinary sense,  
>but rather made up of these spheres.  He also has a human form.
>
>  2: Yog Sothoth is the Keeper of the Gate.  Anything touching him in his  
>non-human form is instantly transported to another dimension.
>
>  My copy of the Necronomicon doesn't mention Yog Sothoth.  This  
>information is gleaned from thhe stories by the greatest god, H.P.  
>Lovecraft.

OOO! You have a copy of the necronomicon!? Not the dreaded Avon Necronomicon?
Say, who wrote that story anyway; I want another! That Yogge Sothoth
"coz me -n- yoggez mates see" was pretty good...

>                         Cthulhu ftagn,
>                            Jason.

-Misquamicus
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 14:32:53 EST
From: <WCE2@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
Subject: Re: Why [esp. at Penn State]?
 <92316.111033MVS104@psuvm.psu.edu>

From my watching post, Penn State seems to be a fairly active place for
satanism and for genuine religious questing overall.  I've taught two
courses at Hazleton touching on the topic, one a course on Bible as Lit
(in which I assigned a lot of selections from _The Other Bible_ to let
people know what they were missing), the other a survey on American witchcraft
and occultism.  I came in concerned about getting lots of flames from fundies,
unwanted local paper coverage, etc. etc., and was pleasantly surprised to find
that the students were quite willing to curb their dogmas and take a look at
the alternatives.  Maybe lingering anti-establishment feelings from the
Quakers (who were noted, among other things, for "going naked as a sign")
and the Amish/Mennonite communities, who may seem reactionary but are looking
more and more like Al Gore these days (or is it vice versa?).  Plus
pow-wowing, or folk witchcraft, is still *very* strong among the older
generation, even among xians.

You could do worse than dabble in satanism at Penn State; there's always
Notre Dame.
.
Bill Ellis (wce2 @ psuvm.psu.edu)                 Editor, FOAFtale News
Penn State, Hazleton Campus                       Voice: 717-450-3026
Hazleton, PA 18201-1291                           Fax: 717-450-3182
"If I am the Devil's child, I will live then from the Devil.  The only right is
 what is after my constitution; the only wrong what is against it."
Newsgroups: alt.satanism