HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rags@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Raghavan Jayaraman)
Subject: Re: Hindu-Muslim dialog
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 18:09:28 GMT

In article <UduPML200VAwME51Mg@andrew.cmu.edu> ag3l+@andrew.cmu.edu (Arun K. Gupta) writes:
>
>Please, folks !
>
>The aim of my posting was not to create flame-wars.
>(though I appreciate how easy it is to lose one's
>temper on these matters.)
>
>The matter of fact is that I've been searching for
>Indian Muslim viewpoints -- and it should be no
>surprise (and another subject for debate) that these
>are hard to come by, compared to `mainstream' or
>`Hindu' views.
>
>The views I present here are what Muslim academics and
>intellectuals in India hold. Of course, they may be quite
>misleading or irrelevant -- I remind you, however, that
>we who are in this discussion, are also academics, with
>equally irrelevant views.
>
>Some of the views held by the authors I present are
>questionable, and some are irrefutable -- and I'm unhappy that rather than trying to separate the wheat
>from the chaff, attacks are made based on the place of
>employment of the author.
>
>It should be a simple matter to point out holes in the argument without getting
>emotional.
>
>-arun gupta
>ag3L@andrew.cmu.edu

Very well! I wish the author thought about this before writing the crap
about "Damn....."

raghavan

Xref: sparky soc.culture.bangladesh:2525 soc.culture.pakistan:6713 soc.culture.indian:14786
From: rrah@troi.cc.rochester.edu (Runa Rahman)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.indian
Subject: London - yet another admirer... :)
Date: 17 Apr 92 16:00:10 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester (Rochester, NY)

What of those who lived in London?  I suppose it depends, too, on which part of
London you lived in.  We (my family) stayed in Hampstead for several months - 
wonderful place!  My sister lived in central London for a few years, and she 
enjoyed it immensely.

We all used to visit London for several days every other year.  There's so much
to do, so many things to see, and it's so easy to get around.  I remember the
parks, the museums, the monuments, the buildings (such intricacies!), the cute
little shops.... I could go on and on :) 

It's definitely my favorite city! 

 
In article <1992Apr17.090651.6667@cs.yale.edu> mahmud-mehdi@CS.YALE.EDU (Mehdi Mahmud) writes:
>  
>	" Two prisoners stared out of their cells. One looked
>	  at the stars in the heavens, the other looked at the 
>	  mud on the ground. "
>				- Anonymous
>				from a father to his daughter
>

Very nice... :) :) :)
From: kazi@ravel.udel.edu (Zunaid Kazi)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Re: AL kowtowing to jamaat?
Date: 11 Apr 92 18:45:42 GMT
Article-I.D.: ravel.18724
Organization: University of Delaware

In article <NAEEM.92Apr11131253@occs.cs.oberlin.edu> naeem@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Naeem Mohaiemen) writes:
>In article <18717@ravel.udel.edu> kazi@ravel.udel.edu (Zunaid Kazi) writes:
>   the state of Bangladesh's  politics,  with both  Awami League and  the BNP, 
>   kowtowing  to Jamaat  for narrow political  gains
>-------
>The two incidents of AL deference in this matter that i know of are:

		[Incidents deleted for space]

>If you know of other (post 1990) incidents of AL kowtowing to Jamaat, could
>you please post.

You have severely constrained my response by attaching the "post 1990" rider
in your request. :) I have been out of Bangladesh since the fall of 1990.

For a party which considers itself to be the sole inheritor of the Independence
Movement, even the examples that you cite are manifestations of hypocrisy. A
party which has assumed the mantle of the sole progenitor of independent 
Bangladesh, in order to be credible, should have disavowed any connections
with Jamaat.

Harking back to pre-1990 [actually early 1990], there were many instances
when the student wing of the Awami League, the Chhatra League, contested
student body elections in a lot of colleges, in conjunction with Islami
Chhatra Shibir, the student wing of Jamaat, with the sole intention of
denying JCD, the student wing of BNP, any seats. [Pardon the abuse of commas]
As an aside: JCD won a massive majority in the elections that year.

>AL govt up to 75 was only post independence govt that did not have some link
>to Jamaat, fundamnetalists, etc. Zia had Shah Aziz, Ershad Moulana Mannan, etc.
>This is maybe the only area where AL has advantage on track record over other
>parties.

I agree with you here. 

>Naeem Mohaiemen  naeem@occs.cs.oberlin.edu  snm8696@oberlin  216-774-1993

-- Zunaid
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Zunaid H. Kazi               kazi@cis.udel.edu                 302-456-3493
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: trivedi@curie.uchicago.edu (Anil Trivedi)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Re: Zero
Date: 9 Apr 92 01:00:27 GMT
Organization: Enrico Fermi Institute, University of Chicago.


In article <8APR199215460926@zeus.tamu.edu> s0k5099@zeus.tamu.edu (KHAN, SHAHRIAR) writes:

MI:
>>>>>		" Zero was introduced by the Arabs...

AT:
>>>>No it wasn't, except to Eurocentric minds. It has long been known and
>>>>accepted that zero was invented by Indians; 
>>Modern number system was developed, and Zero invented, in India.
>>It is the Europeans who confused the issue....

SK:
>	Yeah right. The Chinese might even claim that the radio, television,
>radar, and the internal combustion engine were invented by Chairman Mao Tse 
>Tung. It is conspiracy by Imperialist Capitalists which has attempted for 
>decades to cover this widely accepted truth.
>
>	The wheel was invented by a Bangladeshi (or some ancestor of his), 
>and fire was discovered by his pasher geraamer morol shaheb.

You should have a little more self-respect than that: The Zero not only
was invented in India, modern scholarship deems it very likely (though
not certain) that it was invented by one of your Buddhist/Hindu ancestors
somewhere in the greater Bengal region. :-)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
From: a0h9342@zeus.tamu.edu (HAQUE, ANISUL)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Re: Who keeps Jamaat in power?
Date: 16 Apr 92 16:56:00 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <NAEEM.92Apr15200809@occs.cs.oberlin.edu>, naeem@occs.cs.oberlin.ed
u (Naeem Mohaiemen) writes...
>In article <sho7cINNm26@matt.ksu.ksu.edu> misra@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Boo!) writes:
> 
> 
>	   Help me out here.. if this party has been involved in supporting 
>   pakistan during the war then why is the Bd govt only going after the 
>   leader and why not the whole party? 
>------
>Bear in mind that a portion of the power elite now are people who were
>not involved in indeoendence war, were in London at the time, etc. It is in 
>their interests to keep 1971 a distant memory. Trial, etc of Gulam Azam is
>bad because next step woul be trial of others. Example: Mannan was Ershad's
>religion minister. He was under Gulam Azam's command in 1971. Is it a 
>surprise that he would block moves by Ershad govt to bring Azam to trial
>(not that there were any).

If I am not mistaken, most of the 'Prabashi' Bangalis were active in gaining 
support for the Liberation movement. It is the people who were close to 
Pakistanis during '71 (it means more than Dalaal and Razakkars and many of them 
are still in power), who want to make 71  a distant memory.

About Misra's question, The BD government still doesn't want to try Gulam 
Azam for his anti-liberation activities. He has been arrested merely for 
overstay without a proper visa. Politics based on religion was made 
legal after '75. So Jamaat isn't doing anything illegal right now (except for 
electing Gulam Azam as chairman) so the government can't go after them. The 
amnesty declared by Mujib protects Razaakars from trial of their war-crimes. 
The outrage against Gulam Azam is symbolic. He represents all those who 
were involved in crimes against Bangalis in '71.

[stuff deleted]

>So by my definition: 
>Elected/Mandate/etc: Mujib from 1971 t0 mid 1974
>Zia: 1978ish-1983 {but many would quarrel with this as well}

Zia was killed in '81.

>Sattar: Six months? Eight? I don't remember
>Khaleda: 1991-?
>Over half on post independence has been some form of dictatorship
> 
>--
>Naeem Mohaiemen  naeem@occs.cs.oberlin.edu  snm8696@oberlin  216-774-1993
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>"Bangladeshi man kills himself, then eats wife. Next on Donahue"
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Regards,

Anisul Haque
a0h9342@sigma.tamu.edu
Texas A & M University
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
From: s0k5099@zeus.tamu.edu (KHAN, SHAHRIAR)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Historic London
Date: 17 Apr 92 04:44:00 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.bangladesh
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

>I too have visited London, and must point out that it is a city pregnant 
>with history. There is the feeling of being a witness to a past glorious 
>age. Each street, each monument, has had some historical significance. 

	Exactly the way I feel. One of the places worth seeing is Westminster
Abbey. Almost every nook and cranny of this dimly lit and gloomy hall hides
the remains of some long-dead famous person. I remember seeing the tombs of 
Queen Elizabeth I, Queen Victoria (?), King George (?), and many other British
monarchs dating back to a thousand years. Most of the time, the famous persons
are just buried upright into the floor, with people walking on the graves. 
(Livingstone, of "Dr. Livingstone, I presume?" fame is one such person).
The only exception to this is the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier, which honours 
the countless people killed in the world wars. Notably absent is William
Shakespeare who declined the honour of being buried here in favour of 
his family burial place. Princess Diana had broken tradition by declining to 
have her wedding held in these sombre settings, opting for St. Paul's Cathedral
instead. Recently, a law was passed, prohibiting any further burials in 
Westminster Abbey. One of the stained glass windows was damaged during the 
second world war. It was only replaced with plain glass because they felt that 
the Abbey should not display anything which was not very old. 

	Within a few hundred yards of this place are 10th Downing
Street, Trafalgar Square, a 2nd world war memorial, which was also the 
command centre for Winston Churchill, the National Art Museum, the House 
of Commons, and the house of Lords, Big Ben, and of course, the Thames.

	It would be unfortunate if we downplay these historical monuments,
simply because we were once ruled by the British. Their past glory has now
been marred by a poor economy, homelessness, and other social problems.

Shahriar Khan    				S0K5099@@ZEUS.TAMU.EDU
Texas A&M University                            (409) 260-1854
From: misra@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Boo!)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Re: Treatment of Minorities in Bangladesh
Date: 15 Apr 1992 12:51:14 -0500
Organization: Kansas State University
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: matt.ksu.ksu.edu

>Bangladesh is a country of the Bengalis, so the Hindus are not the minority
>there (Since most of them are Bengali). Non-Bengalis like the Chakmas can be 
>considered as minorities.

	How can you say that when you have declared Islam as the state 
religion. Minorities are not classified by being bangali or not. That was 
i can also say that there are no minorities in India since we are all indians.
I dont think that holds. If you have declared Islam as the state religion
then hindus, jews, and everyone else becomes a minority.

>
>> 
>> Sumitro
>
>---Zakir
From: mermmzh@engvms.unl.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Re: Bihari Massacre and 71 war
Date: 9 Apr 92 23:54:13 GMT
Article-I.D.: engvms.1992Apr9.185413.1
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Nebraska - Lincoln

In article <s0sovINNseb@matt.ksu.ksu.edu>, misra@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Boo!) writes:
>>  they were criminals not innocent. This should be investigated. U.S govt.
>>  was supporting Pakistan in 1971, so it is very unlikely that the reports
>>  of these newspapers were biased.
> 
> 	why would you assume that it was unlikely that the papers were 
> biased? I am sure there is something in that sentence that is making it 
> sound different. 
>

  Well, I am trying to say that during the cold war, American medias
  were not very kind toward the parties supported by Soviet Union and
  the eastern block countries. Since Bangladesh's liberation war
  were supported by the erstwile U.S.S.R and the eastern block, there
  was no reason for the American press to conceal the news of MASS SCALE
  Bihari killing, If it really happend. 

---Zakir
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
From: naeem@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Naeem Mohaiemen)
Subject: Azam's blessing
Organization: Oberlin College Computer Science
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 05:41:01 GMT

In article <14637@vela.acs.oakland.edu> mkaziz@vela.acs.oakland.edu (KHALED AZIZ) writes:

   president himself visited Golam Azam to seek his blessing before he was 
   elected.
-----

In fact, both Awami League and BNP's candidate for President visited Gulam
azam on the same day to seek his blessings [source: Dialogue]
--
Naeem Mohaiemen  naeem@occs.cs.oberlin.edu  snm8696@oberlin  216-774-1993
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"This is a [war] between the pure and the impure"
	[Pakistani army officer, quoted in Maj. Rofiqul Islam's compilation]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Rishad@engws10.ic.sunysb.edu (Rishad Quazi)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Pakistani teams
Date: 13 Apr 92 01:01:10 GMT
Organization: State University of New York at Stony Brook
Originator: rquazi@engws10.ic.sunysb.edu

Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Re: Supporting Pakistani Teams
Summary: 
Expires: 
Followup-To: 
Distribution: 
Organization: State University of New York at Stony Brook
Keywords: 

In article <12085@tamsun.tamu.edu> a0h9342@zeus.tamu.edu (HAQUE, ANISUL) writes:

>I think when we were raised, we were taught that India is evil and no matter 
>what Pakistan does, she is better than India. Religion played a very important 
>role in establishing this. Before '71, Pakistani rulers had to push this, but 
>I don't know, for some reasons or other, the attitude hasn't changed much even 
>after independence. Maybe the burocrats couldn't overcome their old practices. 
>Specially, since majority of them were detouched from active freedom fight. 
>Remember that the word 'Pakistan' was taboo in BTV in association with the 
>liberation war before '89. Rather the words like 'Hanadar' or 'Dakhaldar' were 
>being used. 					  ^^^^^^^^^    ^^^^^^^^^^^
						      |		    |
						      |		    |
						      /            /
What do these words mean?	_____________________/____________/

>Regards
>Anisul Haque
>Texas A & M university
>a0h9342@sigma.tamu.edu  


-- 
-:|Rishad J. Quazi             |        -=-=:| He strides through the long  |:-
-:|rquazi@engws10.ic.sunysb.edu|:=-=-=-      | cavern of time,              |:-
-:|rquazi@sbccvm.bitnet        |    - -=-=-=:| Scattering the fool-self     |:-
-:|SUNY at Stony Brook         |             | of his dream. - Dune Messiah |:-
From: misra@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Boo!)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Re: We Need A Hindu-Muslim Dialog (Was: Re: Muslim situation in India)
Date: 11 Apr 1992 16:09:42 -0500
Organization: Kansas State University
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: matt.ksu.ksu.edu

In article <1992Apr11.205003.20390@cs.yale.edu> ahmed-shakil@CS.YALE.EDU (Shakil Waiz Ahmed) writes:
>
>Your "tit for tat" comments totally missed the point and represent the
>very bigotted perspective that may well be the cause of many of the
>problems.  What relevance does the situation in Saudi Arabia or Iran
>have to the issues that were raised in the original article?  Did the
>author say anything about other Islamic societies?  Why do you have to
>bring them into this?  Is this not a classic example of pointing
>fingers elsewhere to divert attention from the real issues?  Next time
>you want to make "tit for tat" comments please do precisely that --
>that would mean sticking to the topic on hand and addressing the
>issues that the original article dealt with.  Snide remarks about
>distant societies accomplish little.  Stick to the discussion
>topic, and you might even get a reasonable response.
>
>-- Shakil

	I think anil's point was that living in saudi arabia, the author
had really no basis for saying what he did since the very country 
he lives in practices the very things is says in his article. I have to 
say that the article was very one sided. Actaully I would want a 
law where there are no such thing as minorities. Then it would 
be one low-one people. That would be great.
From: kabir@kabir.Eng.Sun.COM (Ihtisham Kabir)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Re: The War of '71 - Moving On..
Date: 8 Apr 92 23:56:28 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: kabir

A while ago someone posted a query on the net regarding sources
for the statistics of "3 million killed" during the liberation
war. Some passages from "The Cambridge Encyclopaedia of India, 
Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Nepal Bhutan and Maldives" were 
posted in scb in July 1991 by M. Kabir Hussain. Quoting from there:

	Bangladesh resistance cost between one and three
	million lives, and the country suffered property damage estimated
	at one billion USA dollars.

I do not know their source, nor their credibility, ie, just
because they are a Cambridge Encyclopaedia does not make them
right, but this passage does support the figures we have been
hearing since the war was over.

I have some Bangladeshi books on the Muktijuddho, and I'll try to
go over those again and find out what they have to say regarding
this.

- Ihtisham Kabir
From: s0k5099@zeus.tamu.edu (KHAN, SHAHRIAR)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Re: Azam trial, info request
Date: 11 Apr 92 02:03:00 GMT
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

Naeem Mohaiemen writes...

>His arrest was merely on technicality of Ameer position, not for war crimes
>and would never have happened if not for pressure on govt by means of the 
>mock trial. Thus, the trial, as a means of public protest has worked. BNP
>govt only intends to hold Azam in jail until chaos subsides. His uninterrupted
>stay in Bangladesh is the ..(chief) agreement that Jamaat made in return
>for forming parliamentary coalition.

Very true.

Shahriar 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
From: trivedi@curie.uchicago.edu (Anil Trivedi)
Subject: Re: We Need A Hindu-Muslim Dialog (Was: Re: Muslim situation in India)
Organization: Enrico Fermi Institute, University of Chicago.
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 00:06:59 GMT

In article <AKGOEL.92Apr14165903@plg.waterloo.edu> akgoel@plg.waterloo.edu (anil k goel) writes:

>Anil and Shakil,
>Don't you think your "discussion" has become repetitive ...

At this point I have to agree with that!
Thanks to all for having been so patient.


>Regarding your ping-pong match about who consititutes the Saudi minorities,
>Saudi Arabia:   Muslims (mostly Sunni) 98.8%, Christian 0.8%, Others 0.4%

Shakil, here are the statistics you wanted!

I neither had nor have any interest in such numbers: even one person
should have the right of worship.

But I thank Anil Goel for this trouble anyway.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
From: ij21@vaxb.acs.unt.edu
Subject: Re: It's kind of neat!! (Att Mr.Islam)
Organization: University of North Texas
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 14:23:57 GMT


Attention Mr. Joy Islam
+++++++++++++++++++++++

	Welcome to the SCB and our numerous discusssions. It is indeed neat
and provides all of us with a lot of information about Bangladesh and other
issues. As far as your enquiry about the worthwhileness of the Golam Azam issue
in the net goes, I must inform you sir that there are hundreds of pretty darn
good reasons for us to be discusssing this issue. Unless you have anything
better to suggest................

Asif Ibrahim
IJ21@VAXB.ACS.UNT.EDU
866,W.Collins
Denton
Tx: 76201
U.S.A
   
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
From: ij21@vaxb.acs.unt.edu
Subject: Re: What the hell is going on? 
Organization: University of North Texas
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 00:34:12 GMT


		LET US DO SOMETHING ABOUT AZAM
                ******************************

		I have been reading the postings regarding leaflets being
distributed in the mosque demanding release of the enemy of our independence.   
Frankly it disgusts me to see our so called muslim brothers from other
countries discussing an issue which they do not know anything about. They are
just following a one-sided view of the whole issue. In Arlington on eid day    
all Bangladeshi students got up and left the eid prayer when the Imam was      
requesting support for Golam Azam. This action has created quite a controversy
in the Dallas area.  We wholeheartedly supported the action of these students
who walked out during the Khutba.
	 	Fellow Bangladeshis, let us join the fight and do something.
In my earlier postings I mentioned students in our school collecting signature
in a petition requesting the hanging of Mr.Mir Jafar. Please take some
immeadiate action, we can not let Azam be scot free ( personally I wish I could
have him in font of me right now )! We have once fought in 1971 with arms and
dedication for a free Bangladesh, let us fight with our pens and emotions now.

 Sincerely,
 Asif Ibrahim                      Ka23@untvm1,Ij21@untvm1,Ij21@untvax
 866,W.Collins
 Denton
 Tx:76201
 817-381-9982 H
 817-565-2350 W
From: mkaziz@vela.acs.oakland.edu (GOLAM AZAM)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Re: Parliament is cobra haven....
Date: 14 Apr 92 01:23:54 GMT
Article-I.D.: vela.14684
Organization: Oakland University, Rochester MI.


 
> 		Parliament is cobra haven
>       ------------------------------------------------	
> Dhaka,Bangladesh-
> 	Women who can charm snakes are on standby as the Bangladeshi
> 	Parliament begins its summer session.
> 	Eight deadly cobras have been caught in the sprawling building
> 	since last week, when frightened deputies fled the building
> 	following a snake alarm.
> 	Police and firefighters failed to entice the reptiles from their
> 	lairs, and the snake charmers were called in.
> 	Abdul Hussain, who caught three of the cobras, said more could
> 	be lurking in the building.
> 	"It is difficult to say how many snakes are still holed up in
> 	the building, but it seems several families of cobras moved in
> 	during the winter for hibernation when Parliament was not in
> 	session," Hussain said.
> 	Some deupties are taking no chances and have hired their own
> 	snake charmers, officials said.


...hmm!...little cofused...is the word "cobra" being used here to discribe
the MPs of my party Jamaat?

-Golam Azam
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh