HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles

And I'm sure for everyone's life to be complete, you really need to hear
the best descents of Sonoma County. Here they are:

1) Geysers from the south side dropping into Alexander Valley

  PROs: screamer, only two hairpins at the top where you need brakes, drops
        at least 2000', lotsa blind corners that require no brakes once
		you know the road

  CONs: top speed only in the high 40s, gotta climb it first, doesn't
		last forever

2) Occidental Road heading east

  PROs: really challenging, don't need brakes for anything, very rough
		pavement, but if you know it, you can go balls out, climb is
		trivial

  CONs: top speed doesn't even break 40 except for a short section near the
        top where you can hit 46 if you know it and don't chicken out and
		pull some brakes

3) Calistoga Road heading east into Calistoga (ok, ok, this is Napa County,
   but it still counts in my book)

  PROs: downhill speed run, sustained speeds in the high 50s are easy,
        pavement is so smooth you can nearly retape your handlebars and
		watch the stunning scenery as you descend

  CONs: slow cars that block the whole *$%#ing road and make you only
        do 52

4) Calistoga Road heading west into Santa Rosa

  PROs: technical, hard corners, high speed, mostly no brakes, you can
		go through each corner faster than you'd think from first glance,
		you can drop cars without even trying

  CONs: no way to pass a car if you catch it

5) Highway 12 heading east from Jonive Road

  PROs: 53mph, within <30 miles round-trip from SR

  CONs: doesn't last long

6) Oakville Grade (ok, ok, this is Napa, too) heading east
 
  PROs: after descending the east side of Trinity which is slightly
        technical, fast and very fun, this is a total rush. Typical speeds
		are in the low 50s if you pull a lot of brake. I've heard stories
		of 67 mph, but never had the courage to ge very fast because the
		corners lookscary. In reality, they are banked well, and I think
		one could go arbitrarily fast if one were stupid.

  CONs: gotta climb Trinity first. Then to get back to Santa Rosa, you get
		to climb the even more delightful Spring Mountain.

Ciao dudes!

Allan
From: ampe@cbnews.cb.att.com (john.e.ampe)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Do clipless pedals hold tenaciously in an accident?
Date: 9 Apr 92 20:48:07 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Apr9.170235.8954@island.COM> don@island.COM (Don Hermes) writes:
>In article <1992Apr7.171503.21267@kestrel.edu> king@reasoning.com (Dick King) writes:
>>
>>If you get thrown by something you can't react to [such as a chunk of metal
>>suddenly locking your front wheel] will the force release a clipless pedal? 
>
>No. Clipless pedals release by twisting your foot out of them. It's 
>like remembering to pull your foot up and back out of toe clips.
>Maybe a little more so. When I first started with toe clips I don't
>think I had many problems, although it's been long enough that I may
>be blocking it out. The first month that I had the clipless pedals I had about
>three topples, where I couldn't get my foot out in time. I imagine they
>looked kind of funny, to see someone helplessly and slowly fall over.

Well, it's true that your foot release _most easily_ by twisting it.
So if you fall over slowly and forget to twist, you will be stuck in
the pedal.  However, the retaining plate will also yield to an upward
force that is large enough;  so in a crash, you will always come out
of the pedals without having to twist.  I've been in many crashes with
both Look-type and SPD pedals, and they have always released.  This is
why the Looks were originally marketed as a "safety" pedal.  Has
anyone ever crashed at speed in a clipless pedal and not released?

John_Ampe@att.com
From: chapman@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Larry Chapman)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Trek 5200 Review
Date: 14 Apr 92 21:23:05 GMT
Article-I.D.: hpfcso.16190232
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA

> >Background:  I'm a triathlete  primarily but I train almost  entirely  with
> >	     bike racers.  I enter and win most local citizen's bike races.
> 			     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >	     In our local TT series (10K) I can average 26 mph.  In the 40K
> >	     cycling leg of a triathlon I can average a tad over 23 mph.
> 
> Larry, m' boy, I think it's time to stop beating up on the poor
> citizens and take out a license.  It sounds like you should be racing
> at least at the Cat. 3 level.  I'm sure the increased competition
> could only help your triathloning [did I get that right?] as well.
> 
> John_Ampe@att.com

Yea, yea, I've gotten this feedback  alot.  Problem is I don't want to risk
my  season by  crashing  in a bike  race.  To get to Cat III (and I think I
probably could race at that level since some of the riders I train with are
IIIs) I'd have to survive Cat >III.

I'd rather be safe, have fun, and stay in the front  where I control my own
destiny.

I'd love road racing if the damn asphalt wasn't so hard!

Call me a wimp, call me a tri-geek, but never call me in the hospital!

-- LSC
From: fredrikm@eik.ii.uib.no (Fredrik Manne)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Bicycling in America
Date: 6 Apr 92 10:51:17 GMT
Organization: Institute of Informatics, University of Bergen, Norway

My experience with biking in Norway and in the US boils down to this:


-In Norway a car will always drive by you as close as it can without
 knocking you down.

-In the US a car will always drive by you as far away from you as
 it can while still knocking you down.



Fredrik
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: ramsey@kona.cs.ucla.edu (Brenda Ramsey)
Subject: Olympic Velodrome - Race Results
Originator: ramsey@kona.cs.ucla.edu
Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 92 17:25:33 GMT

Olympic Velodrome Race Results - 4/11/92

The Velodrome will NOT be open the weekend of 4/18/92 in honor of
Easter.  Activities will start again on 4/25/92.  Admission $2.50
before 4pm and $5.00 after 4pm.  Parking is FREE.

Pro 1&2 Points Race
	1.  Andy Dahlstrom (GS Flash) 24pts + 1 lap
	2.  Claude Gerard (Bicycle Garage/Specialized) 18pts
	3.  Matt Chambers (Montrose) 17pts
	4.  Sean Watkins (Parkpre) 16pts
	5.  Kenny Fritts (LA Sheriffs/Chevrolet) 6pts

Pro 1&2 Keirin
	1.  Paul Swift (Team Cannondale)
	2.  Jeff Solt (Garden City)
	3.  JohnWalsh (Velo Avanti
	4.  Jay Dee Durso (Toga Tempo)
	5.  Chris Johnston (Parkpre)

Pro 1&2 Miss & Out
	1.  Allan Boucher (Int'l Cycling Centre)
	2.  John Walsh (Velo Avanti)
	3.  Dahlstrom
	4.  Fritts
	5.  Chambers

Women Points Race
	1.  Esther Davis (LA Sheriffs/Chevrolot) 18pts
	2.  Amanda Henry (Suntour/Masi) 18pts
	3.  Renee Duprel (US National Team) 17pts
	4.  Alesia Duffy (Los Gatos) 13pts
	5.  Alacia DeCampos (LA Sheriffs/Chevrolet) 6pts

Womens Scratch
	1.  Duprel
	2.  Davis
	3.  Amber Holt (Flyers)
	4.  Henry
	5.  Patti Rosenthal (San Diego Bicycle Club)

Women Miss & Out
	1.  Duprel
	2.  Henry
	3.  Davis
	4.  Holt
	5.  DeCampos
-- 
Brenda Ramsey  (213) 825-3643
UCLA Computer Science Department
ramsey@CS.UCLA.EDU
..!(uunet,ucbvax,rutgers)!cs.ucla.edu!ramsey
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: GE.SAW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Sally Waddell 3-3554)
Subject: Knee Pain
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 16:35:05 GMT

I am beginning to experience knee pain.  I started bicycling in
January and have been gradually increasing my distance with no
problems until recently.  (I'm getting ready for a cross
country tour)  Three events precipitated the pain:  1) increased
mileage from around 80-90 miles per week to 100-110 miles per week.
2) Added Shimano clipless pedal system (recessed mtn bike model).
3) I went on a very hilly ride that really stre-e-e-tched my
capabilities (I could barely get myself home)--my knees didn't
really hurt during the ride, but ached the following week.

I've started wearing knee braces on the recommendation of another
bicyclist, but they are damned uncomfortable and nearly ruin my
pleasure in riding.  I think they are too thick, the backs of my
knees are starting to bruise from all that wadded up material
(they are the "X" style braces that are skinnier in back than in
front, but still not skinny enough.)  I've also played with the
adjustment on my cleats.  These two measures help (I don't
experience sharp pain), but I still feel weak and have what I call
"precursors of pain" which means I feel like if I did an additional
workout I would have some pain.  Also, I've been careful to do ITB
stretches from the day I began riding.

The pain is primarily in my right knee and seems to radiate from the
side of the knee.  Mostly the right side of the knee, but today
(wearing low heels) the left side of the right knee is aching.

What do you think is the real cause?  Should I see a sports medicine
person? or orthoped?  Any recommendations on either?  What about the
adjustment on the clips?  How do you determine the optimal
adjustment?  (Do I need a type of clipless pedal that allows
rotation of the heel?)  If braces are a good thing, are there some
better styles and where can they be found?

I'm about 600 messages behind, so email would be greatly
appreciated:  ge.saw@forsythe.stanford.edu
              sally@med.stanford.edu
thank you all!!!!!!!   --sally

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: stern6@husc10.harvard.edu (Michael Stern)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: high speed shimmy
Date: 15 Apr 92 18:07:27 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc10.stern6.703361247

PS> At about 50 miles per hour one of the riders in front of me had his
PS> bike go into very violent and rapid (5 to 10 Hz) oscillations.

Ah yes, you were in the C race too.  This guy had the worst shimmy I've
ever seen; it looked as though his bike was about to fly apart.  This
is not to say that shimmy is something terrible; it's relatively
common and arises when a rider has his weight poorly adjusted at high
velocities.

All evidence points to shimmy being a resonance phenomenon.  Particularly,
it goes away if you shift your weight (to provide damping), speed up or
slow down.  If anybody knows better, please let me know.

As for West Point, it is an excellent course, though the U-turn on the
road race course, just as the road narrowed from two to one lane, should
have been better signalled.  Some of the carnage there could have been
avoided.

******************************************************************************
         Michael Stern        *  "I love children, especially when they cry,
                              *   for then someone takes them away."  
   stern6@husc.harvard.edu    *                         -Nancy Mitford
******************************************************************************
From: jesnow@athena.mit.edu (Jonathan E Snow)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: high speed shimmy
Date: 15 Apr 92 17:13:33 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

In article <1992Apr15.020914.6858@mks.com>, scott@mks.com (Scott Nicol) writes:
|> In article <14APR92.17084622@alcvax.pfc.mit.edu> stek@alcvax.pfc.mit.edu writes:
|> >I saw something pretty frightening in a race this weekend.
|> >[...]
|> >At about 50 miles per hour
|> >one of the riders in front of me had his bike go into very
|> >violent and rapid (5 to 10 Hz) oscillations.
|> >[...]
|> >His bike was moving several inches from side to side.
|> 
|>    The cause of this is difficult to track down, but I have usually found
|> that it is either because the headset or the front hub is slightly loose.
|> 
|>    The short-term solution is simple: clamp the top tube with your thighs.
|> 
|> >My guess is that he was one of the many bozos who were needlessly getting in
|> >a tuck with both hands on the top of the bars near the stem.
|> 
|>    Anybody doing this in a pack is a bozo, but if you are descending alone,
|> on a smooth road with not-too-sharp corners, then it is a valid technique.
|> It can be quite scary watching somebody descending in this way, though
|> (Steve Bauer does it all the time...).
|> 

	This was indeed in the middle of a big pack.  I didn't see it though,
because another bozo near me during the 50mph part was drinking from his water 
bottle when he saw the hairpin coming.  I was trying to avoid a skittering 
deadly oversize waterbottle full of some noxious fluid which I was sure was 
destined for my front wheel.  I somehow cleared the hairpin in posession
of my skin.

	When I was talking to people about it later ("Did you see the 
wobbly guy?..."), I got the impression that he bumped somebody and the 
vibration was somehow the result of his panicked death-like grip.

	jon "Got dropped right after that..."	


|> -- 
|> Scott Nicol, Mortice Kern Systems Inc.,		Internet: scott@mks.com
|> 35 King Street North				UUCP: uunet!watserv1!mks!scott
|> Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA, N2J 2W9		Phone: (519) 884-2251
From: sean@cs.tamu.edu (Sean Graves)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Vetta 20 cyclocomputer
Date: 15 Apr 92 16:39:33 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department, Texas A&M University

In article <1992Apr13.160033.6952@wam.umd.edu> floyd@wam.umd.edu (Jim Matthews) writes:
>Andy Dickinson writes
>> Just a casual inquiry -- anyone have the new Vetta C-20 cyclocomputer?
>
>I wish I could tell you.  I ordered one from Nashbar for my MTB, and it's been
>backordered for a month now.  I called them up and they said they are having
>problems getting shipments from France.  Anyone else have this problem?

Also Poor-formance and Colorado Cyclist are out of them.  

I had wanted to buy one but now I guess I will spend $15 more
for an Avocet 40, and not have cadence...

Is the Vetta 20 a new model, a discontinued model, or what?

Sean

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles,rec.autos.driving,ca.driving,rec.motorcycles
From: sss@netcom.com (Small Systems Solutions)
Subject: Re: Kill a Biker, Go to Jail. NOT!!!
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 92 20:46:50 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Distribution: na


Oh, how I wish your newsreader software wouldn't let you post unless your
lines outnumbered the quoted ones!

-- 
Small Systems Solutions                   1563 Solano Avenue, Suite 123
sss@netcom.com                                  Berkeley, CA 94707-2116

The above-expressed opinions aren't necessarily
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: kdg@world.std.com (Keith D Gregory)
Subject: Re: Question about Hyperglide chains and pins
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 00:09:20 GMT

In article <1992Apr13.143309.22000@synapse.bms.com> idelson@idg02.bms.com 
(Ira Idelson) writes:
>
>I know the proper procedure for a Hyperglide chain is to remove any pin
>but the black one(s) completely and replace it with the special black
>Hyperglide pin.

I am a person who recently suffered a very nasty accident, by simply popping
any old pin (as I would on any old chain). The chain broke as I was pulling
away from a stop sign -- out of the saddle, and very unbalanced. Ruined a
new cycling jacket, and gave me some nasty scraps. I will in the future use
those black pins religiously -- or go back to Sedis chains.


>I have a friend who does the following. He uses the cycoli rivoli cahin
>tool(the narrow chain model) and pushes the black pin out exactly 6 turns.
>This leaves just enough of a lip to catch the link when reinstalling it.

I think that the black pin is made from a softer metal, and expands as you 
install it -- you can see a depression in the pin after installation. If this
is the case, then re-using the same pin is a _bad_ idea . . . it seems similar
to re-attaching an airplane's wing with used rivets.

-kdg
From: BRANDT_JOBST/HP1900_01@HPLOMG.HPL.HP.COM
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Biking in N. Italy
Date: 16 Apr 92 21:27:14 GMT

Dave Bohn writes:

> I would like to know what the biking is like in northern Italy close to the
> Alps.  Things like the condition of the roads, car traffic, other bikers,
> etc.  I normally bike along the Front Range and mountains of Colorado.

The roads are better than here and the drivers are more sensitive to bicycles
than here.  I suggest you ride IN the Alps rather than just NEAR them.  You
didn't say near what major city but the Alps circle Italy from Ventimiglia
to the Brenner Pass near Innsbruck so you could be in a large area.  All of
it is good riding.  In Italy there are still more racers on the roads than
tourists and look-alikes but things are changing (not for the better).

In comparison to Colorado, the mountains are much steeper but the roads are
not.  Italians are human too and build roads with the same goal in mind as
road builders elsewhere.  An exception is Austria where there are many 20%
and steeper roads.  I think the King wanted it that way.

Do it.  It's a great place to ride,  Read the cover story about this by
Owen Mulholland in Bicycle Guide.  He is a great rider and skilled story
teller who has ridden his bike all over the US and Europe.

Ride bike!

jobst_brandt@hplabs.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: laetta@uni-paderborn.de (Udo Koerber)
Subject: Re: Paris-Roubaix
Organization: Universitaet-Gesamthochschule Paderborn
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 13:09:33 GMT

In article <1992Apr13.033827.2922@leland.Stanford.EDU>, gooch@leland.Stanford.EDU (Carl Gooch) writes:
|> Well, I know who won, but that's about it.  Gilbert Duclos-Lasalle (Fra,Z)
|> won.  
   ... (text dismissed)

I just saw a TV-broadcast that covered the last 15-20k of the race.
At this stage Gilbert Duclos-Lasalle was leading with nearly 2 min.
when Olaf Ludwig (Ger) just had a successful attack leaving behind
a group of 20 racers.
On the well-known cobblestone-"surface" he managed to come nearer
with no more actions behind him - Fignon leading the group but no
more serious attacks.
With 8k left, Ludwig was only 51' behind Duclos-Lasalle and seemed 
to be stronger - would it be enough?
You could see Duclos-Lasalles incredible fight in his face when Ludwig
reduced this time to 23', but that was inside Roubaix with just 1k left.
Entering the Roubaix-Racing-Oval you could see Ludwig only coming in
when Duclos-Lasalle had finished his last round and was just taking
his last meters. Ludwig also had finished his round when the group came
in behind him, lead by Lemond.
I forgot who became 3rd - some belgian, not Lemond.
I think the race could have become a thriller if Ludwig had attacked
2-3k earlier, because he seemed to be very fast on the cobblestone-parts
of the streets. On the last 2-3k on normal roads inside Roubaix, Duclos-
Lasalle was fast enough to keep his seconds.

Winner: Gilbert Duclos-Lasalle (Z, Fra)
   2nd: Olaf Ludwig            (Ger)        +  38'
   3rd: ?                                ca.+ 1min.

Sorry 'bout the incompleteness, but i have no access to cable-TV,
which has more detailed broadcasts when it fits - but most times
they are not live.

Bye,
        udo.
From: BRANDT_JOBST/HP1900_01@HPLOMG.HPL.HP.COM
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Commuting on a Bicycle
Date: 9 Apr 92 17:20:25 GMT

Gary Robishaw writes:

> I too perspire profusly during my commute, irregardless of the weather.

Disirregardles of whether one perspires or not, body aroma is the real
compelling reason to shower.  However, not all perspiring humans cause
objectionable odors.  In fact, I suspect the majority does not do so,
but this obviously goes unnoticed by its absence.  It is my experience
that for some people a deodorant of one kind or another is sufficient,
for others, nothing works.  It is these few people who should probably
ride at the rear of the group on longer rides where showers are not an
option.

jobst_brandt@hplabs.hp.com
From: pardo@cs.washington.edu (David Keppel)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Force 40 Brakes
Date: 8 Apr 92 18:43:38 GMT
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, U. of Washington, Seattle

v561whw2@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Kevin P O'Neill) writes:
>[WTB pads dont' need toe-in, I guess w/o toe-in you get all the pad.]

All brake arms that I have seen are flexible enough that modest toe-in
(1mm gap at leading edge when the trailing edge touches) is handled by
flexing of the brakes.  Think of it this way: if you had toe-in and
things didn't spring to compensate, only the tip of your pads would get
worn.

Toe-in is generally needed (as I understand it) because the brake arms
are going to flex some anyway.  If the pads are flat to the rims to
start with then the forward motion of the rim will tend to ``suck in''
the backs of the pads, pushing them together, exacerbating the suck.
Finally the brake gets wound up, the pads let go, the brake snaps back
and unwinds, and the process repeats.  This happens at a frequence that
causes squeal.  Toe-in preloads (pre-twists) the brakes, raising the
resonant frequency of the squeal.

		;-D oN  ( Vacuums generally suck )  Pardo
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: ccfa001@hermes.chpc.utexas.edu (Curt Vaughan)
Subject: QR seat posts ... thieves' paradise
Organization: The University of Texas System - CHPC
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 92 20:56:07 GMT

It finally happened to me last week ... some @#$% QR'd the seat and
post off of my mtb.  I often wonder where these jerks sell stuff such
as this, and how much they actually get for their "efforts."  The combo
cost an arm and a leg to replace, and I hate having to carry the doggone
seat and post around with me.  Short of replacing the QR with a regular
bolt, has anyone come up with a method of securing a QR at least enough
to slow the thief down?

Curt Vaughan

-- 
**************************** The Grand Plan *********************************
* To play the traverso as J.S.B. would have wished, to play the lute like   *
* John Dowland, and to have the time to ride my bicycle for the sheer       *
* joy of it all.                                                            *
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: R. Glenn Stauffer <stauffer@cc.swarthmore.edu>
Subject: Re: Slick tires for mountain bikes.
Organization: Swarthmore College Computing Center
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1a2
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 20:42:23 GMT

>I could use some opinions on slick mountain bike tires.  I'm particularly
>interested in comments on Specialized fat boys and the new Avocet
"inverted
>tread" tires.  Also coments on which width for road riding (I assume the
>narrower the better) and tire pressure would be welcome.

I have the Avocet inverted tread tires in 1.5" width - I bought wider so
I could hit a fire
trail or two when the streets got boring.  The tire has good grip - good
enough to ride on a
grassy hill.  I previously had the slicks and they were killers in the
grass.  The only
problem with the Avocet's is that they are noisy and I imagine they
provide more resistance than
the slicks.

I run them at 85lbs.

(Another happy MB-2 owner - though I'm tempted to get an RB-2/RB-1 for
the road)

R. Glenn Stauffer
Micro-Computer Specialist, Swarthmore College Computing Center
Internet: stauffer@cc.swarthmore.edu
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: sirothe@PacBell.COM (Sheldon Rothenberg)
Subject: Re: Opinions on the Vitus 979 Dural aluminum frame
Organization: Pacific * Bell
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 00:27:13 GMT

In article <92104.143449SJ81SANU@MIAMIU.BITNET> SJ81SANU@MIAMIU.BITNET writes:
>I bought a 979 Dural in January 1987, and have been very pleased with it. It

I also bought one then and have similar experiences. Its great forclimbing 
and helps cushion the road shocks. As a heavier rider (about 170 now, about
160 when I bought it) I must say that weight makes a difference and that
frame flex possibilities discipline one to consciously pedal smoothly, so 
as to avoid problems in staying in certain gears when the frame flexes.

As to mileage, I am more of a recreational rider, doing an occasional
century but averaging in the fifty to seventy five mile a week category.

Shelley

From: budn@hpmwtd.HP.COM (Bud Noren)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 15:29:35 GMT
Subject: Re: Never call bumps again
Organization: HP Santa Rosa Site (NMD MTA MWTD). - Santa Rosa, Ca.