From: noonan@mksol.dseg.ti.com (Michael P Noonan)
Subject: Re: Abortion, Caves, Galen (WAS Vegetarianism and abortion)
Organization: Texas Instruments
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 19:20:12 GMT

In article <1992Dec30.111143.29938@hemlock.cray.com>, mon@cray.com (Muriel Nelson) writes:
|> In article <C01L6s.11v@ra.nrl.navy.mil> psl@nrl.navy.mil (Paul Lebow) writes:
|> >In article <1992Dec29.114352.28023@hemlock.cray.com> mon@cray.com (Muriel 
|> >Nelson) writes:
|> >> 
|> >> In article <C015K3.Ip4@ra.nrl.navy.mil> psl@nrl.navy.mil (Paul Lebow) 
|> >writes:
|> [deletia]
|> >> >
|> >> >Guess what Muriel? There were fewer abortion related deaths back then than 
|> >> >now -
|> >> >try a different line of rhetoric.  I know, the standard, "back alley, coat 
|> >> >hanger" image is so juicy and hard to resist by pro-aborts.  Keeps those 
|> >> >undecided folks shaking in their shoes. 
|> >> I'm sure you'll be supporting this claim with documentation
|> >> from unbiased sources, ....
|> >Muriel - you wouldn't care in any case.  You made the assertion first.
|> >
|> I made no quantitative comparisons.  You did that, and
|> I have yet to see you support it.

Muriel is right.  If you have facts, let's see them.  These
statistics that you reference are very important to this debate.
A request for statistics is not a flame!  Facts will move the
debate above flames.

|> >> This is not just rhetoric for me, you misogynist twit.
|> >
|> >You are a bitter person Muriel.  
|> >
|> Actually, not most of the time.  When I run across
|> a MalePerson who wouldn't mind seeing more women die
|> if he could just save the CuteWarmFuzzyFetuses, it
|> does leave a funny taste in my mouth.

Do you believe that a male does not have a right to hold an opinion
on this issue?  I have encountered such women before, and constructive
debate was ended before it began.  I will assume otherwise.

|> >> I almost lost my best friend to a self-induced abortion
|> >> in 1969.  I do not want to see one of my daughters lose
|> >> a friend in this manner. 
|> >
|> >I'm impressed by your statistics.  T-test anyone?
|> >
|> Why is it that you find it so easy to empathize
|> wth a preconscious organism, and so utterly impossible
|> to comprehend the feelings of a woman who would really
|> rather die than remain pregnant?

Why do you think Paul does not sympathize with the women who are in
these straits?  I admit I do not know Paul, but to assume that anti-
abortionists do not see the evil of illegal abortions is improper.
It becomes a matter of selecting between two evils.  Many more
legal abortions are performed each year (millions) than deaths of
women in back-alley illegal abortions (thousands perhaps?) years
ago.  An anti-abortionist is making the agonizing decision between
millions of deaths and thousands of deaths.  There is no good
choice, only the lesser of two evils.

|> >> I'm prepared to fight your
|> >> agenda in order to protect the rights of young women
|> >> to make choices about their bodies.  
|> >
|> >You are fighting Muriel, you are!  Rhetoric is your weopon of choice.
|> >> 
|> >> muriel
|> >
|> >Young women obviously doesn't include the very young, unborn women.  God 
|> >capitalizes his name as should you - you yearn to play the role so 
|> >intensely. 
|>
|> Naahhh.  I'm not playing god this week.  I know who
|> is, but he ain't telling.

You don't have to believe in "God" to believe that human life is important.
If there is a god, he chose not to get involved in this issue a long time
ago.  Its up to us now.

|> muriel
|> standard disclaimer

Mike Noonan
Newsgroups: talk.abortion