From: hhelanto@vipunen.hut.fi (Henri R Helanto)
Subject: Re: Four wheel drive Autos
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Date: 27 Dec 92 03:09:50 GMT

In <Dec19.202139.21574@engr.washington.edu> eliot@lanmola.engr.washington.edu (eliot) writes:

>you should take my comments in a broader perspective.  i was referring
>to the "old" quattro, yes, and am aware of its many flaws.  after all,
>this is a 10 year old car.  anyway, this was the car that started the
>whole performance 4wd revolution.  the "raw excitement" that i
>referred to is not in comparison to the super-AWD cars that you lucky
>europeans have; it is in comparison to all these quiet, refined luxury
>coupes that are far too common around here.  the quattro occupies a
>chapter in the history books.  it is far less well known or understood
>here.  that adds to its specialness, i guess.

	I admit, the 'old' Quattro (Coupe or S1) is the legendary
	car that started the whole AWD-mania, but as my opinion
	the car sucks big time. It's quite fast, it looks good,
	it's a real legend, but I wouldn't buy a car that handles
	like a Range Rover if you want to drive it fast. 
	(I've driven both S1 and Quattro and two group A rally 
	Quattros and I still wonder how they rallyed it in 80's...)
	But, of course, not everyone is into fast driving.

>>	Subary Legacy 200, SVX etc. are pretty much the
>
>we have a 130 bhp legacy and a 160 bhp turbo legacy.  the svx is on
>the brink of death.  the european legacy has far more power than the
>one here.

	Hmm... tuning up that turbo Legacy isn't that hard, but
	it'll void the guarantee.

>>	Lancia Delta HF Integrale
>
>not a single one of its many evolving models were ever imported.

	No? Ouch! I thought they would have imported a few, at least.

>>	Toyota Celica 'Carlos Sainz Edition' handles
>>	like a Cadillac - it's not as comfortable but equally soft,
>
>it's available but very rare.  
>
>>	Sierra Cosworths 4x4 / Escort Cosworths oversteer a bit (feels
>
>nope.
>
>>	Nissan Sunny GT-R feels like a small car (because it _IS_
>
>the only sunny (called sentra here) that people are excited with is
>the fwd with VC model with a twin cam, normally aspirated 140 bhp 2.0
>engine.  not quite a GTI-R.

	Is the situation that bad over there? I understand that
	an imported car costs more than domestic one, but the
	cars I mentioned are fairly popular here and the prices
	for used ones are quite cheap. (If you can call any car
	cheap here... used Cosworts are often cheaper than new
	Accords).

>>	Dodge Stealth has the same feel as MB 4-matic (heavy and
>>	terrible understeer)
>
>yuck!  4000 pounds?  outrageous!

	That's what I told a friend of mine when he bought his
	Stealth R/T and now he's really pissed off because it
	doesn't handle well enough. He wants a Mazda RX-7 :-)

>>	For touring I would choose Subaru, Mitsubishi or Cosworth,
>>	for rallying Integrale or Nissan, for track Cosworth or
>>	Skyline. And for showing off, AUDI. I'm sorry to say that
>>	but the car isn't quite as legendary as its name.
>
>and i have said so myself.  but if you look at your list, the choices
>here are extremely limited, which is why a 10 year old audi quattro
>coupe would still make sense to a hard core enthusiast.

	If it's really that bad, Quattro may be the only alternative.
	AWD is useful if you live in the north and especially if you
	are not allowed to use spikes on tires.

-Henri
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