From: rak@loft (Robert Kiesling)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: uucp/mail/news FAQ [long]
Date: 8 Nov 92 15:14:31 GMT
	<1992Nov4.080547.1063@loft> <1992Nov4.215755.23652@nwnexus.WA.COM>
	<1992Nov5.055437.3898@loft> <1992Nov6.211944.449@victrola.sea.wa.us>
Organization: Internet Free Michigan

In article <1992Nov6.211944.449@victrola.sea.wa.us> vince@victrola.sea.wa.us (Vince Skahan) writes:

   rak@loft (Robert Kiesling) writes:
   >... Installing -- and using -- news software does not end with typing
   >"make."

   it certainly doesn't...

   >Installing SLS or MCC, for example, is also intended (I assume) to be
   >easy as possible.  I still see lots of postings from people who have
   >questions.

   I think the major difference is that SLS/MCC are basically static
   distributions of "a mess 'o goodies" where mailpak/newspak are more
   along the lines of "this is a pain to assemble and get to compile.
   Here's a mess 'o .tar.Z files you can use with some confidence that
   they will work as is, but they almost definitely need local customizations
   to do things like setting domain names, etc. to reach a final config".

   I'm of the opinion that news+elm really need to be done from the
   sources because of how integrated they are and how configurable they
   are.  I don't need (or want) to know all the gcc flags to be able
   to compile something.  I'd *better* understand the flow of the various
   C-news pieces (newsrun, sendbatches, etc.) to expect to get news to
   flow and to integrate with uucp and mail.

   uucp and smail are more os-like and *can* be distributed reliably
   in binary-only in things like SLS and MCC.

   >... No real disagreement, IMHO.  Just a matter of how to do this.  Would
   >you consider including one or two of these many docs in newspak?

   I'll probably include a list of which ones I think every news admin
   should get, read, and understand.  I'll also tell how to get them via
   mail-server from the news.answers archives at pit-manager.mit.edu

   I have no inclination to include actual FAQs in newspak.  Its intent is
   to have a set of Linux-ized .tar.Z files of sources of many news programs.

   It's intent is also to have a separate .tar.Z file containing ONLY patches,
   config files, readme files, and porting guides for the various programs
   so that if you have access to the sources (but can't quite get them to
   work), you can download one small .tar.Z file with working config files
   you can use to get SOMETHING running, then you can tweak it to taste.

   It seems to me that an alarming percentage of tsx, sunsite, etc. disk space
   is taken by .tar.Z files of stuff that doesn't require patches, just tweaked
   config files.  Linux is getting so 'normal unix' [...oxymoron? :-) ...]
   that the need for complete Linux-ized sources for normal unix sources is
   rapidly disappearing.  the only thing I'd like to keep seeing complete
   sources for is the kernel, truly Linux-specific ports of stuff, and maybe
   whole-source-kits of major distributions like SLS and mcc-interim.

   For example, the total newspak1.1 (newspak1.0 + nn6.4.16.tar.Z) that I'm
   assembling here consists of about 3.5 MB of .tar.Z files.  The .tar.Z file
   containing just the how-to-get-it-to-compile for all the pieces 
   (cnews+trn+tin+nn+smail3.1.28) is only 46KB.  Quite a difference.

   you have newspak's trn2.2 and you want 2.3?  Cool.  Grab the 2.2->2.3 patch
   from trn's author and apply it.  Then read the README.linux file to show 
   where the tweaks are needed.  Then type make.  

   Long term, I'd like to not have to upload massive .tar.Z files of stuff you
   can get just as easily from ftp.uu.net or wherever like you can do from
   tsx-11.mit.edu, sunsite, etc.  People need to learn how to use 'archie'
   to find the dozens of sites that have the stuff you want.  People need to
   read the 'how to find sources' FAQ from news.answers.

   For now, I'll probably do at least the following:

	   - patch up tin/trn/nn to current patchlevels (I'm one behind)

	   - add a .tar.Z file with ALL my news+mail+uucp config files as
		   a reference only with what works here. Your mileage may vary.

	   - include a short list of FAQs people need to grab via anon-ftp
		   or mailserver from the net (and a quickie description of
		   how to go about it).

   I'm also in conversation with Peter MacDonald regarding getting newspak
   included in a future SLS. I haven't grabbed the SLS 'guide to adding stuff'
   file so I can't draw any conclusions yet regarding whether that'll happen
   yet.

   (if anybody thinks a binary-only newspak *IS* possible, please drop me a
   line via mail...)

Another way to avoid the overload at tsx-11 and sunsite and I expect
the Europe archives is to have working Linux Usenet sites.  If a new
SYSV admin, for example, needs help, they can probably find it one or
two uucp hops away or a nearby IP connection, if not down the hall.
As Ed pointed out, Linux requires tinkering to become operational.
There do seem to be enough people beyond the "[this program] causes
[whatever] exception" due to memory, disk, misconfiguration, bugs,
whatever, that they are able to think about using mail and news.

If somebody at .umich.edu, for example, knew there was a site one
block away (loft :), they would less likely need to post or ftp to the
archive sites.  There's also the chance to get more individual help
than is possible from c.o.l.  It ain't bleeding-edge development,
which still is necessary, of course, but since there is no toll-free
tech support line for Linux (yet :), the easy questions can be
answered efficiently, and the mailing lists and c.o.l. can be devoted
to development and general announcements as intended.

There are two other Linux sites in the .mi.us uucp maps.  I would
suggest including a pointer to comp.mail.maps (name?) as an additional
place to find help for Linux.

-- Bob

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Kiesling		                    "Durum et durum non faciunt murum."
rak@loft.ann-arbor.mi.us		 	   			-- Anon
vela!plex-1!loft!rak 
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux