HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Tagi@cup.portal.com (Thyagi Morgoth NagaSiva)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Sorry but...
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 14:49:56 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

9211.10 e.v.

You (I didn't see a sig and am too lazy to go back and look) write:

I am a christian and have been for 3 years now(dont hold it against
me please) and I would like to ask you a question in all honesty.
I still use mind expansion exercises frequently and other related
abilities. I am afraid that the christian church still defines these
as BAD. Morality is not my question. My church will not give me an unbiased
answer so Im asking you.


Response:

You will never get an 'unbiased' answer.  All answers are biased - no
exceptions.

Questions for you to ponder:

What is a 'Christian'?  What is Christianity?  How does the Church (any)
fit into spiritual practice?

What are 'mind expansion exercises'?  How do these fit into your life
and how do they compare to other types of practice?



You:

Do you believe my continuance in mind expansion is a remanent and continuance
of magical usage or simply colorful imagery that helps me deal with problems
in a different light.

For example:
If I am unsure of whether there is someone near me I "reach out" with my mind
to "see if I feel" someone there. I use the logic that if I use that imagery
it will heighten my 5 senses to allow me to see what I would have seen
eventually anyway.Not magical, Simply Imagery.


Response:

I don't really understand your question.  What is 'a remanent and continuance
of magical usage'?  Why isn't 'colorful imagery that helps (you) deal with
problems in a different light' magick?


You:

I am not asking for religious advice as you have made it clear this is
not the newsgroup for it. Simply an opinion. Thankyou.


Response:

None given.  Mine is less an opinion and more a request for greater clarity
on your part.  If you wish to know if your visualization is beneficial,
I think that is something you can best assess.  If you wish to know more
about various magical exercises I recommend watching this newsgroup for
suggestions on reading materials and/or talking to like-minded friends.

Good luck in your efforts,

Thyagi
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: Trouble?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 12:44:18 GMT

tjr0868@ritvax.isc.rit.edu writes:

: There is a book about the end of the world out which is more believable
: called _5/5/2000_ which predicts a major disaster on that date based on
: scientific data.  The theory is:  due to pollution, global warming, etc.
: ice has been building up at the south pole.  This has been proven by 
: scientists.  One scientist believes that by the year 2000 there will be

Sorry, if there is global warming, the ice would be melting, not building
up. Junior high science will tell you that.

: such a mass of ice in Antartica that the earth will be twisted off its axis
: due to the gravity of the planets which will line up on that date.  The 

I think "scientist" is too generous a term.

No chance if such a thing occurring. All the water on the earth comes to  
less than 1/10000th of the mass of the planet. Even if you piled it all
up in the worst possible place, it would not cause the slightest wobble
in the rotation of the earth.

Also, even if all the planets did indeed line up perfectly, the moon
and sun still will have thousands of times more effect on the earth
than the aligned planets. 

: earth will not be pulled out of orbit, but instead will be shifted 90
: degrees.  So the earth will rotate top to bottom instead of left to right.
: This will cause imense destruction.  I think he said something about the 
: center of gravity changing.  Anyway, he said the average wind speed will
: be 400 mph and all the oceans will shift positions as the earth tries to
: regain a normal weather pattern.  That's the theory, it's not mine, don't
: blame (or flame) me.  It sounds reasonable to me, but I don't think it
: will happen.  Other scientists are saying that there will not be enough
: ice in the south pole to affect the earth in such a drastic way.
: Anyway, after the election of Clinton, I've gotten that foreboding feeling
: more than ever.  And now I'm really worried.

As I stated above, this person is not a scientist. The real scientists are
right.

As you state, you should be far more worried about the politicians and
religious fundamentalists on this planet than the physics of the universe.

Bill
From: mimir@stein.u.washington.edu (Al Billings)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Thelemic GD Osiris Ritual
Date: 7 Nov 92 01:16:21 GMT
Organization: The Friends of Loki Society



                   THE OSIRIS GOD-FORM RITUAL
                                
                     By Dr. Israel Regardie

                   From "The Sceptre of Power"
                (New Falcon Publications, U.S.A.)

                          Issued by the
                       Thelemic Order and
                    Temple of the Golden Dawn

                  (With substitute material by
              David Cherubim for use of Thelemites,
       thus it is also called "The Horus God-form Ritual")

(Note that the particular God-Form that Thelemites should adopt
in this Ritual is that of Harpocrates, who is the Child Horus and
the Lord of Silence.)     

1. Perform the Banishing Ritual.

2. Invoke the Four Elements and Spirit. (Osiris is not only the
Lord of the Underworld, but is also the Lord of the Elementals.
He is the Lord of Fire, Water, Air and Earth.) (Note: Horus is
also the Lord of the Elements, symbolized by the Blazing
Pentagram.)
 
3. Face East. Withdraw yourself into the centre of the room.

4. Make Spirit Symbol.  Plunge dagger into the centre of Symbol
and vibrate:

                      JEHESHUAH  JEHOVOSHAH

                      (or HOOR-PAAR-KRAAT)

5. Sit down and assume the Osiris (or Horus) God-form and expand
in size. While holding the God-form should the mind wander, bring
it back with the repeated invoking of the Coptic pronunciation of
Osiris -- pronounced "Ae - shoo - rist" (or invoke "Hoor-Paar-
Kraat").

6. See the pale golden aura (or Blue Egg) around you. Be sure to
keep everything in proportion as you expand. And be sure to be
porous.

7. See yourself as Osiris (or the Child Horus).

8. Then say the four Prayers of the Elementals.

9. Then say the Invocation "Unto Thee, Sole Wise, etc."

10. After the last line "Let the White Brilliance of the Spirit
descend", vibrate:   (after bringing the Light down)

            EXARP       HCOMA       NANTA       BITOM

11. Keep on vibrating "Ae - shoo - rist"  (or "Hoor-Paar-Kraat")
through the Ceremony and after. It awakens something inside that
corresponds to the form. You are making use of a highly integral
system to assume form. You are evoking something that has always
been there.

1st Variation 
(For use of Osiris God-form only)

Use your own imagination for embellishments. Apply the Golden
Dawn method. See yourself lying in a coffin; and after the
Invocation of the Light, see yourself then as standing out of it
with just your feet in the coffin. It is a burial place and
initiatory Temple.

2nd Variation
(For use of either God-form)

After having clothed yourself with the God-form, see yourself as
Osiris (or the Child Horus), and the aura as a ball of Light (or
Egg of Blue). Picture as vividly as you can, and vibrate the
names "Ae - shoo -rist" (or "Hoor-Paar-Kraat") and "Exarp, Hcoma,
Nanta, Bitom," and imagine the ball (or Egg) as vibrating.

12. Perform the Banishing Ritual.
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: rtsumn01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Subject: Re: Women vs Men
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 02:38:30 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville

In article <1992Nov11.193628.556@cattnts.canada.ncr.com>, craig@cattnts.canada.ncr.com (Craig Campbell) writes:
> In article <JOSHUA.92Nov2110000@bailey.cpac.washington.edu> joshua@cpac.washington.edu (Joshua Geller) writes:
> 
>>In article <lfamk8INNrn0@news.bbn.com> dhardin@bbn.com (Dawn Hardin) writes:
> 
>>.   [....]
>>>   since the baby has been born I'm lucky to read one book a month and the
>>>   list is growing much faster than that.
> 
> 
>>this is the reality behind castanedan talk of holes in the aura, the
>>left-hand tantrik avoidance of pregnancy, and much other denigration
>>of parenthood by many magickal traditions. children are parasites: they
>>suck about 15 - 20 years out of your life (more intensely, perhaps, to
>>mothers than fathers). whatever you were doing before, stops, and
>>the child becomes the center of your existence.
> 
>>josh
> 
> If this were in deed 'reality', then why do women tend to live longer than 
> men?  (Or mothers longer than fathers?)

It has nothing to do with physical lifespan and everything to do with what you
can *do* during your physical lifespan. If you spend 20 years doing nothing for
yourself because you're taking care of a kid or three, that's 20 years down the
drain. If you spend 40 years working 80 hours a week and do nothing for
yourself, that's 40 years down the drain. Has nothing to do with the period of
time you spend on the face of the earth.

I can see where the sex of the would-be magician might make a difference in
non-advanced-birth-control cultures. No sex? Yeah, right. You know that
somewhere along the line they're probably going to have sex. If you're male,
you can just ignore a pregnancy, but if you're female, you have to take care of
the child, you have to marry to get a provider and take care of your provider,
and there goes all your free time. Yes I know that this doesn't apply to every
culture that ever walked the face of the earth.

Now hopefully Usenet won't black out on me again like it did a couple hours
ago...

--Semhaza
From: danlip@cco.caltech.edu (Daniel Adam Lipofsky)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Trouble?
Date: 11 Nov 92 02:26:22 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
NNTP-Posting-Host: sandman.caltech.edu

In article <1992Nov9.191551.1@ulkyvx.louisville.edu> rtsumn01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu writes:
>In article <1992Nov8.124418.27215@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com>, billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes:
>> tjr0868@ritvax.isc.rit.edu writes:
>> 
>> : There is a book about the end of the world out which is more believable
>> : called _5/5/2000_ which predicts a major disaster on that date based on
>> : scientific data.  The theory is:  due to pollution, global warming, etc.
>> : ice has been building up at the south pole.  This has been proven by 
>> : scientists.  One scientist believes that by the year 2000 there will be
>> 
>> Sorry, if there is global warming, the ice would be melting, not building
>> up. Junior high science will tell you that.
>
>Well, some scientists are claiming that global warming *does* enlarge the
>polar cap. The increased warmth increases snow at the poles, and locks more
>moisture at the poles, increasing their size. This can even lead to an Ice
>Age, folks!
>
>Please don't ask me for their credentials, I don't even remember where I 
>read this. I don't think I believe it, either.
>

Global warming does increase polar snow fall, and so could increase
the size of the icecaps.  However, it also increases the melting rate,
and it is unclear which is the bigger increase. (not that global warming
isn't a problem even if they cancel out).

Regardless, the disaster scenerio proposed in this thread is totally
ludicrious.  All the water on the earth only makes up a microscopic
fraction of the earth's mass, and the gravitational effects of the sun
and the moon are many orders of magnitude bigger than that of all the other
planets combined.

But thanks for a wonderfully humorous theory anyways.

--danlip


-- 
"The calender of the Theocracy of Muntab counts down, not up.  No-one knows
why, but it might not be a good idea to hang around and find out."
	--Terry Pratchett, _Wyrd_Sisters_
From: shava@hermes.oit.unc.edu (Shava Nerad Averett)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Of giving up and getting on..(was Women vs Men)
Date: 9 Nov 92 18:00:05 GMT
Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill

In article <JOSHUA.92Nov8013041@bailey.cpac.washington.edu> joshua@cpac.washington.edu (Joshua Geller) writes:
>In article <Nov.7.17.24.34.1992.13322@ruhets.rutgers.edu> 
>farris@ruhets.rutgers.edu (Lorenzo Farris) writes:
>
>>          By and large, I agree that Christianity is full of all kinds of
>>   nastiness. However, there is one point in its defense. Catholicism is
>>   the only established religion I am aware of (please correct me if
>>   there really are others)
>
>left-hand tantrik naths and at least some sufi orders.
>
>>                            in which there is an opportunity, and has
>>   been for centuries, for women to pursue spirituality to its fullest
>>   extent. 

Actually, I think that much of buddhism qualifies, most northern asian
shamanism qualifies, some native american shamanism qualifies, taoism
in some flavors qualifies, judaeism qualifies as well as catholicism
(women can be students of the spirituality, and tzaddi, but not celebrants).
I believe most African religions qualify, but I'm mostly aware of west
african religions.  I suspect that if you went by world population, you'd
find that -- by the very limited definition Lorenzo uses (no temporal or
celebrant status) -- most people belong to religions that have long his-
tories of women participating in spirituality (my favorite, probably, 
being Tibetan Buddhism...).  In fact, many religions have better history
of this than currency in it.  There is no Hildegarde of Bingen in the 
modern RCC.  Mother Theresa may be a saint, but her status is completely
different.

Without temporal authority, social recognition, and validity as a celebrant
in major rites, the pursuit of spirituality is the pursuit of monastic
life, religious scholarship, and personal mysticism.  I'd say that in the
last case at least, there is nothing that can *prevent* a woman from 
pursuing mysticism, even in the absence of formal support.  In the case
of religious scholarship, you can restrict it by restricting women's 
literacy.  

I believe the first ordained (christian) clergy in the US was either a
Unitarian or a Universalist, just as an issue of trivia...

-- 
Shava Nerad Averett				shava@unc.edu
/*  all original materials (c)1992, Shava Nerad Averett, and have nothing 
    significant to do with the University of North Carolina, a mostly owned 
    subsidiary of the NC Legislature, a mostly owned subsidiary of NC DOT. */
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: joshua@cpac.washington.edu (Joshua Geller)
Subject: Re: Of giving up and getting on..(was Women vs Men)
Organization: Institute for the Study of Ancient Science
	<BxIF7B.Koo@acsu.buffalo.edu>
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 20:25:04 GMT


In article <BxIF7B.Koo@acsu.buffalo.edu> oispeggy@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Peggy
Brown) writes:

>   At one time the convent was an escape from the unpleasant 
>   alternative of being traded into marriage like a brood mare, but 
>   IMO this was an "out of the frying pan into the fire" solution.

maybe in the last few hundred years. in the middle ages (and later in
some parts of the world) things were quite different.

>   Try reading a little about women who were canonized.  Typically 
>   they spent a lifetime in self-denial, and they excelled at self 
>   flagellation.  I've read of them sucking puss from leper's sores 
>   and licking the walls of their cells - eating the cobwebs and 
>   spiders.

hmmm? some female saints had quite a bit of temporal power.

josh
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: dart@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Dartanyan the Witchling)
Subject: Re: Opinions needed on the future...
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 05:41:34 GMT

In article <BxF2Mx.Lz2@cs.psu.edu> jdh@math.psu.edu (Jeremy D Hall) writes:
>Hmmm...sounds sort of similar to the plot of the Darksword Trilogy by 
>Margaret Weis/Tracy Hickman.  It seems that all of the magical beings (including
>humans that could use magic) left the Earth for another place (around 1500AD,
>I think) via this path that Merlin had discovered.  This place was the origin

um, that would have been around 500AD or so, according to historical data
revolving around when the Celtic kings, who were later interpreted as 
'Arthur op Uther' (Arthur, son of Uther), ruled.


>
>Jeremy Hall
>Penn State Univ.
>jdh@math.psu.edu

also, see the Shadowrun RPG system.
on Dec. 23, 2012, Magic returns to the world and there is a Night of Rage...
(i'm paraphrasing from rough memory, so i claim no close accuracy)
leading up to this time, an increasing number of births involving babies with
pointed ears, or other 'deformities' have been reported.  on Dec. 23, 2012
(which, btw, is VERY close [tho a year off, i think] to the Mayan date for
the end of this World [a Mayan 'World', or Age/Eon lasts approx. 5200 years]),
magic hits the world no-holds-barred, the dragons, who have been sleeping for 
the past 5200 years, re-awaken, and lots of generally earth-shattering types
of things happen.
Something like a Great War...  
:)


--
dart
aka Dartanyan the Witchling
RL- Wendy Hetrick, Pres. Pagan Academic Network at Purdue University
From: oispeggy@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Peggy Brown)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Childbirth
Date: 7 Nov 92 15:45:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <memo.734620@cix.compulink.co.uk>, shaman@cix.compulink.co.uk writes...
>Hah. I remeber a TV program which featured three women having kids -
>with in depth interviews about 'the experience of birth' etc etc.
> 
>One of the women was immensely charismatic - quite spiritual, but
>whilst the other two wittered on about 'womens role' and 'fulfilment'
>and 'just like a great orgasm' (had they even HAD one?) the other
>woman thought for a moment and replied to the interviewer 'Noo.. it
>was...it was just like having an ENORMOUS shit!'

I suspect she was right, which is why taking as many drugs as 
possible appeals to me (appalling, I know).  I've always liked 
being high much better than being constipated. :)

>I know which woman I would have preferred to be MY mother :-)
> 
>Leo

- Peggy -
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: shc@bluemoon.use.com (n shane chambers)
Subject: Re: Opinions needed on the future...
Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024])
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 19:23:42 EST

ae561@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Peter Wong) writes:

> 
> 	Hi, greetings....
> 
> I have these associates (I met them this summer) that told me a
> story of the future, recently.  They, also, told me that they had
> a lot of dreams (they claim...note, that I not falling over myself
> in belief -NOR- great disbelief) about the future.
> 
> Well, the story is somewhat complicated; however, in short, they
> stated that there was once magik on Eartha at one time and just 
> befor ethe end of the millenium, there will be this "...great
> war...".
> 
> They don't seem like the type of people that would play a "group
> joke" on one person, me.  Of course, one of them (they are a family)
> is very scientific in nature (to believe in this, but he does)
> 
> 
> 	In short, what is people's opinion on "the great war"?
> 
> 


Grammer states there are four types of `war,` or better 'conflict.'

                man     vs.     man
                man     vs.     nature
                man     vs.     himself 
                man     vs.     super natural

of wich are you refering?

                shc


This is from
  shc@bluemoon.rn.com or ...towers!bluemoon!shc
Who doesn`t have his (or her) own obnoxious signature yet...

                                And doesn`t plan on getting one eather!

                                             *:)
(all right, I know I can`t spell, is it my falt I never learned the spell 
command? 8-)
From: joshua@cpac.washington.edu (Joshua Geller)
Subject: Re: Sorry but...
Organization: Institute for the Study of Ancient Science
	<1992Nov10.025658.24545@primerd.prime.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 07:12:17 GMT


In article <1992Nov10.025658.24545@primerd.prime.com> jasonp@sunbabe.Prime.COM
(Jason Pascucci) writes:

   The Roman Catholic Church tends to frown on all kinds of
   such excercises. 

oh right. that is why the catholic church sanctified ignatius loyola, author
of 'spiritual exercises' and founder of the society of jesus.

josh
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: joshua@cpac.washington.edu (Joshua Geller)
Subject: Re: The End of the World - Again
Organization: Institute for the Study of Ancient Science
	<1992Nov6.183503.20363@linus.mitre.org>
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 20:46:38 GMT


can you say 'millennial panic' boys and girls?

all of these predictions of 'the end of the world' are either
misunderstood astronomical myths, or bullshit, or both. I am
completely confident that world is not going to end anytime
soon. I am reasonably confident that human civilization is
not going to end anytime soon. Anyone at all is welcome to
bet me $1000 against my $1000 that the world is going to end 
on any given date you care to specify, be it 31 December 1999,
23 December 2012, 28 October 1993 (in case the korean christians
decide that they made a slight miscalculation and it's coming a
year later) or whatever.

yes that's right folks, even money on this one!

josh
From: shaman@cix.compulink.co.uk (Leo Smith)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Trouble?
Date: 9 Nov 92 21:58:00 GMT
Reply-To: shaman@cix.compulink.co.uk

spb0457@rigel.tamu.edu (SubGenius) ...

>I've been feelin' a little uneasy since about 1972.
>Or thereabouts.
Funny. So have I.

Probably Global Pollution, or something.