HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jprovo@Gnu.ai.mit.edu (The Wandering Pedestal of Angst)
Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday
Subject: Re: a cheap holiday in other people's misery
Date: 14 Oct 92 02:43:43 GMT
Organization: Russel Street UN*X and Caffeine

U56503@uicvm.uic.edu writes:
[pet theories deleted]

[joe appraoches strawman; examines it; decides where to start...]
>Many group members ascribe to the following compelling, but falacious, line of
>reasoning:  It is too anxiety-producing and scary to change.  
[Host]: Sorry, U56503, but you lose the first question; can the team of Simple 
Simon and Logical Louie steal...?

[SS]: huh?
[LL]: Can we have a sec, Bob?
["Bob"]: Sure guys; what's bandwidth, eh Network Audience? [flashes that
        multi-million-dollar smile...]

[LL]: Well, change is a positive, subtract fear, multiply by intelligence...
[SS]: Umm, Isn't Dying a damn big change?
[LL]: Shh! -ahem- ...divide by the number of readers of the group and run it
     thru my simulator...
["Bob"]: Right you are Simon! [turns to U56503] You see, U, What is a greater
        Unknown than the big sleep?  Who is a more adventurous explorer; the
        person who decides they can Do What They Like, or the Group that says
        they can't Go Poking About Against Some Vague Baing's Will, or they'll
        fall off the edge or be eaten by dragons or...umm..something...

[useless babbling based upon initial error ignored]
>I have to ignore reality many times to keep my dour identity in full operation.
[home audience laughs]
["Bob", wiping laff-tears from his eyes]: Please, are you U or Polly? You know,
        Polly Anna?  Dig: the world sucks, it always has and always will.  You
        can try to change it, you can live with it, or you can check out.
        Sorry, Simon and Louie, but you already stole for this round, so...

>Self-awareness is plenty scary.
["Bob"]: Yes, we all know the litanty of Q Avereage Human, but keep in mind
        that we have a topic here tonight, and that the players and audience
        are generally more intelligent than Q A H.

>Denial of the necessity for change is paramount to them.  Attacking what scares
>them is their modus operandi.  They will fight well to stay as they are.
["Bob"]: Umm, U, are you talking about yourself here or what? Please, you're
        being funny, but really, we have a purpose...

>They will find ways to debunk anything that gives them cause to look
>inside and see that they need to change:  That the fault is not in the stars,
>but in themselves. . . .
["Bob"]: (to control booth) Umm, look, this guy just keeps talking in terms 
        applicable to anyone; can we cut to commercial?

...more to come....
-- 
Disclaimer: "I'm the only one foolish enough to claim these opinions as mine."
jprovo@gnu.ai.mit.edu                                       jzp@gene.ummed.edu
    Russell Street UN*X Consultations and Development     (NIC handle: JZP)
                            Rev. Dkr. Nick LaRG0, ASC 
Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday
From: tomten@solace.hsh.se (Kare H. Pettersson)
Subject: Re: Columbus Day: Start? Winter Depression Season
Organization: Solace Computer Club, Sundsvall, Sweden
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 13:46:24 GMT

In <92285.163549U56503@uicvm.uic.edu> U56503@uicvm.uic.edu writes:

>People on ASH this summer were happy and cheerful in part.
>Why, things were so downright friendly, people that hated each other
>all winter were agreeing and getting alone.  We marvelled at this
>phenomenon and basked in the sunshine outside our computer rooms.

Could it be, that some of us, especially we silent readers of ASH,
simply didn't find the discussion worthwhile during the summer.  That
we felt too shitty to get involved of your happy little talks?  I,
for one, eneded up in hospital during August.

>We discussed Winter Depression then too.  We talked a lot about it.
>We saw that the mood of the group was so upbeat on the whole in the
>summer.  Sure, some of the "regulars" were not here, but other dour-
>in-winter members found themselves inordinately cheery and hopeful.
>This was duly noted.

"Sometimes in the summer sunshine, the sky falls down on me."
 -- The Jesus and Mary Chain

Sure, it's quite nasty when it gets cold and dark, especially up
here (northern Sweden).  But I am sure I'm not alone in feeling that
the light and the happy faces on the streets (and on News) are
equally depressing.  Could it be that the actual change in weather,
climate and light makes the mind go hot, hot, hot?  Pain.

Oh well.  Just a silly thought of mine.
-- 
Kre H. Pettersson   +46 60 157026   tomten@solace.hsh.se    Different.
From: megazone@planet10.WPI.EDU (MegaZone23)
Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday
Subject: Re: i tried
Date: 7 Oct 92 16:42:52 GMT
Organization: WPI USAF -- United Society of Animation Fans
NNTP-Posting-Host: planet10.wpi.edu

In article <1aulf7INNni7@bigboote.WPI.EDU> satan@wpi.WPI.EDU (Matthew James Meyer) writes:
>covered with hope and vaseline
>i still can't fix this broke machine...
>i tried, i gave up
>i tried, i gave up
>i tried, i gave up...

Been listening to too much NIN again have we Matt?

P.S. Pathways still hasn't distributed the story....
###############################################################################
# I have one prejudice, and that is against stupidity.  Use your mind, think! #
#Email megazone@wpi.wpi.edu  Moderator, WPI anime FTP site 130.215.24.1 /anime#
###############################################################################
From: G.I.West@bradford.ac.uk (Graham West)
Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday
Subject: Re: sdf.lonestar.org: /u/df/suicide_quux
Date: 11 Oct 92 16:31:10 GMT
Organization: University of Bradford, UK
Originator: 91670332@ccw306
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

Thomas A. Dennis (dennis@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu) wrote:
: In <1992Oct10.011708.17107@udel.edu> Psycho Kitten writes:
[About society's 'laws' that say suicide is wrong]

: If "society"
: wanted as many live people to oppress as possible, why would it promote the 
: dumping of toxic waste, tobacco addiction, and many other things that destroy 
: lives?  Most of the people whose lives truly seem to have lost any 
: meaning--those in nursing homes, bedridden, in the throes of terminal 
: disease--have been ignored and abandoned by society; they are already too 
: miserable to take on any of society's misery.  

You are thinking in black and white. Society does what is best for it as a
whole, not for any one individual. If you want society to do what is best for
you, then you have to force it - assuming you have the power to do so.
: 
: No law has ever been passed that has prevented someone from committing 
: suicide, IF THAT'S WHAT THEY REALLY AND TRULY WANT TO DO, as opposed to 

Of course not. But that's because they have decided that they want no more
part in society, and so society's 'laws' (maybe mores is the right word - I
don't know the technical terms) won't have any hold on them. But for anyone
who sets any value by society's perceptions of and reactions to them, then the
rules that society imposes bring a definite amount of pressure to bear.
: 
: > Once you're born, the only thing that is truely required of
: >you is that you die.  If you chose to live among other humans (usually
: >the default choice - whether you like it or not), following at least some
: >of the social standards helps make your daily interaction flow a bit
: >smoother.  Of course people encourage you to live... they don't
: >want to deal with all the loose ends that death leaves for the living.  
: 
: More horseshit.  How long does it really take to clean up the loose ends of a 
: successful suicide's life?  A few days, maybe two weeks?  The funeral, the 
: will, cleaning out the sock drawer--not very time-consuming. 

You've obviously never had any close family members die. It takes a *lot*
more than a couple of weeks to sort out the mental and emotion 'loose ends'
that are left when someone close (like a parent, grandparent, uncle, brother
or sister) dies.
: 
: Flame away, if you must, but I felt compelled to counter this extraordinarily 
: selfish and nihilistic perspective with my own.

I hope you don't consider this a flame - just my opinion (for the little it's
worth).
: 
: >               Psycho Kitten
: 
: Tom Dennis

		Graham
-- 
Graham West, University Of Bradford, UK   ....   g.i.west@bradford.ac.uk
"Red, crimson red, am I the invisible boy?" W.A.S.P. - The Crimson Idol
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Friday, 16 Oct 1992 04:37:15 CDT
From: <U56503@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday
Subject: Why?

A Hotline discourse we had going earlier this week:

(Thought ASHers might have some insights to add here.)

Why does anger upset people so much?
Why do people go to such great lengths to avoid it?
What happens to people who cannot get verbally angry--even when alone?
Can anger be productive?  How?
Are people afraid of their own anger?  Why?
What's a human to do?  Is anger natural?
How to express it appropriately?

Brady

=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~Brady Woodward PhD=~=~U56503@UICVM=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=
  SATAN to NEW-COMER: The trouble with you Chicago people is that you
  think that you are the best people down here, whereas you are merely
  the most mumerous. --Mark Twain  (All other thoughts are mine alone.)
=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=
Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday
From: underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe)
Subject: Fork in the Road: Binary Decisions
Organization: Miners for a Heart of Gold
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 92 22:24:56 GMT

How does one really know if a choice among alternatives is the best
one?

Today, I finalized a decision, which will forever change my future.
There's no turning back, effectively.  Knowing me, I probably picked
the wrong alternative.

Maybe, my roommate will offer some of his beer tonight....

"... where the cold wind blows.  I asked my friends, and nobody knows"
-- White Snake

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seikatsu no imi wa nan desu ka.            \|  |`      | Don't buy from Toyota;
Shitte itara oshiete kuremasen ka.          | -+-      | especially, don't buy
                                           /| / \      | from Capitol Toyota in
Copyright 1992.                 Disclaimer:  1 + 1 = 3 | San Jose, California.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday
From: hughes@epcot.spdc.ti.com (Susan Hughes)
Subject: Re: involuntary incarceration and violent means
Organization: TI Semiconductor Process and Design Center
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 18:08:28 GMT

In article <1992Oct7.202516.19187@udel.edu> awatson@pecan.cns.udel.edu (angela watson) writes:
>
>	My main reason to avoid any type of "professional" therapy is 
>fear of being fitted for one of those lovely dinner jackets with sleeves
>that fasten in the back...
>
>	While I probably should go in immediately for some sort of
>therapy (for things other than depression and suicidal urges), I'm afraid
>that I might wind up in the State Mental Hospital... 
>

Just an FYI that might be helpful; there's a lot of under- and mis-
information about mental health warrants. Laws do vary incredibly from
state to state, and budget crisis' across the country are making all
states a little more cautious whose hospitalization they pay for. Texas
is way behind on social programs of all kinds, consequently almost anyone
who can respond semi-reasonably to a judge will walk. We found this out
trying to commit my stepson; he was psychotic and violent, but the judge
refused to commit him until after he assaulted someone. 
    Also, still depending on the state, what gives a therapist grounds to
request a mental health warrant vary. They're also real secretive about
what those limits are. I've never gotten a clear answer on where they draw
the line, but possible strategies might be to call a shrink and/or Suicide
Prevention and find out what they suggest for your *friend* that is acting
depressed. If you ask for a commitment, they'll tell you when it's possible
and when it's not. Check some of this out before you decide to forgo therapy 
completely. I may never win any mental health awards, but my counselor has 
helped with a lot of things. As a precaution, after one REAL bad experience
with a power-junkie I saw before I got my current counselor, accurate info
on the initial paperwork(name,address,phone) is optional for as long as you
feel it necessary.

Regards,
Sue
From: EUCLID@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday
Subject: #49 (to satan)
Date: 7 Oct 92 16:31:25 GMT
Organization: C.C.S.O.

It used to be that when we walked,
Our shoulders pressed
And we would talk of many things.
 
Now, no longer side by side
The distance between you and me
Is measured by our eyes.
 
          e.k. (minor prophet of Eris)  10/92
Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday
From: euclid@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (Saint Joan of Arc)
Subject: Re: Fork in the Road: Binary Decisions
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 17:20:58 GMT

underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:

>Hey, Elizabeth, how's it going?
   It's going very,very well,thank you.  I used to wonder if you really cared,
or if you were really the cynic you claimed to be. But you care!  You show
enough interest in me to change your environment to show my name!  You enquire
of my life!  You're even starting to maintain a dialog!
Now maybe we can resume where we left off...
Perhaps you could start by telling what *did* take you so long?  I *did* tell
you my name was on postings from this account.  If follows that you could have
fingered this account at any time, but evidently chose to not do so.  It was
disappointing of you, and finally i could wait no longer.

>I don't discuss my personal life in public.  
    Bite your tongue.  What's all that stuff you've posted this summer about
Japanese boys being tormented and pushed to work very hard and given false
promises about beautiful girls waiting for them at the end of the rainbow
(along with a lucrative job, etc.), and your own personal dissillusionment
and how you take refuge in beer......and how you're sooooooo Japanese?  Was
this all lies?  Are you really some Anglo-Saxon teenager pulling a marvelous
prank?  Well?

>   "How does one really know if a choice among alternatives is the
>    best?"
             That depends on what you value.  Once that's figured out, the
   rest is fairly easy.


--
St. Joan of Arc ,euclid@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu (preferred)
standard disclaimers apply
Hold fast to the center --Tao Te Ching
Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday
From: brown@NCoast.ORG (Stan Brown)
Subject: Re: Names and identities
Organization: Oak Road Systems, Cleveland Ohio USA
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 02:49:48 GMT

In article <1basssINN11u@bigboote.WPI.EDU> megazone@obsidian.WPI.EDU (MegaZone23) writes:
>
>I have a few reasons why I haven't changed my name yet legally, mostly due to
>the cost. But I am looking into getting a DBA (Doing Business As) ID which 
>means I can get bank accounts, etc, under megazone. It is much cheaper and
>easier to do. 

Are you _assuming_ that legally changing your name is costly, or have
you actually researched it?  

As always, laws vary by state.  But a year or so ago I changed my name,
and it cost me $50 at the courthouse.  (It might have been $45, it might
have been $55.)  As is true in most states I believe, no lawyer was 
required.  The staff were wuite helpful.  I had to fill out _one_ form.  

Granted, your name is a bit more unusual than mine.  But since you're
already using Megazone (or is it megazone, lower case?) that should not
be a problem.
-- 
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems                      brown@Ncoast.ORG
Cleveland, Ohio, USA
From: dennis@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Thomas A. Dennis)
Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday
Subject: Re: stress....
Date: 15 Oct 92 17:38:29 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

In <1688182B9.EUCLID@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu> EUCLID@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu writes:

>In article <Bw4yzt.32J@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>
>jage@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (I like redheads.) writes:
> 
>>So I suggest, from personal and recent expierence, go outside and scream
>>when stressing out.
>>
>>Any other suggestions?
>>
>   If you're not disabled, strenuous exercise helps (e.g.,running).
>   Building a durable strawman (obviously not of straw) and beating it with
>      a big stick sometimes works.

There is something called a "Dammit Doll" that is essentially a small rag doll
made solely for the purpose of venting stress upon.  Survivors of child abuse 
may find this sort of thing grossly inappropriate--or maybe not.

For me, I have the HFI Threshold--if I'm feeling stressed out to the point 
tthat I just can't handle it anymore, I simply identify the source of my 
stress, ask myself if it's really worth the angst and bullshit that it's 
causing me, and if it's not--it rarely is--I say, "Hey, Fuck It."  I may be 
lucky, but most of the things that cause me stress come to pass, and usually 
sonner than I think.

>euclid
 
--

Tom Dennis                    |  I looked into the abyss,
dennis@alexia.uiuc.edu        |    and the abyss looked into me--
tadg0614@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu     |      and we both winked.
From: megazone@obsidian.WPI.EDU (MegaZone23)
Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday
Subject: Re: Columbus Day: Start? Winter Depression Season
Date: 17 Oct 1992 01:20:58 GMT
Organization: WPI USAF -- United Society of Animation Fans
NNTP-Posting-Host: obsidian.wpi.edu

In article <92290.144658U56503@uicvm.uic.edu> U56503@uicvm.uic.edu writes:
>No, I don't think it is at all.  But, regulars who were depressed
>in the winter were not in the summer, and many of them have nothing
>to do with college campuses.  Yes, there is life going on outside

Well, don't count me in there. Spring term was hell, and summer was too
depressing. Trapped in NY with no friends and nothing to do, dealing with
parents who suddenly became Ward and June Cleaver. And my best friend of
seven years and I split.

This fall I feel actually pretty good, sure, right now I'm upset since I
failed 2 of 3 courses, but in general I'm feeling up. Winter is my favorite
season and I can't wait for the long nights and the snow. Sunlight bothers
me, way to many photons.

Sure there is life off campus, a lot of my friends at school aren't at school
themselves. I spend most of my time off campus now, either at someone's place
or a movie, bar, club, whatever.... I don't go to too many of the campus 
events, except the Pub Shows. Good music, low price.

I'm glad to be back here where my friends are (and where I don't have to call
long-distance to log on) and I'm glad that winter is upon us.

maybe I'm just strange,
Zoner, been reading the Principia Discordia...
###############################################################################
# I have one prejudice, and that is against stupidity.  Use your mind, think! #
#Email megazone@wpi.wpi.edu  Moderator, WPI anime FTP site 130.215.24.1 /anime#
###############################################################################

Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday
From: brown@NCoast.ORG (Stan Brown)
Subject: Re: Old fogeys
Organization: Oak Road Systems, Cleveland Ohio USA
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 14:26:39 GMT

In article <1992Oct7.180353.19922@eskimo.celestial.com> alpinist@eskimo.celestial.com (David Butler) writes:
>   Thanks for the reference and the definition.  Hmm, I wonder if this 
>means that those in here who are insisting that cynicism = realism
>are 50 times more likely.

"A cynic is what an idealist calls a realist."  --Sir Humphrey Appleby,
on {Yes, Prime Minister} (or possibly {Yes, Minister})
-- 
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems                      brown@Ncoast.ORG
Cleveland, Ohio, USA
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Friday, 16 Oct 1992 20:51:16 CDT
From: <U56503@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday
Subject: Re: Columbus Day: Start? Winter Depression Season
 <92287.231952U56503@uicvm.uic.edu> <9229101.26843@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU>

In article <9229101.26843@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU>, guild@ecr.mu.oz.au (Luke_Thomas
WILLIAMS) says:

>> >        What about us poor bastards in the southern hemisphere - constantly
>> >out
>> >of sync with all the rest of you - surely I'm not the only one who's
>> >just leaving winter with the prospect of a long,glorious summer ahead

>> Say--How *was* winter?  Were you depressed?  What do we have to look
>> forward to?   As the earth tips. . . .

>        Was I depressed????!!!!  Umm, just a little bit - the real question
>is will the advent of summer actually help?

I hope so.  Please keep us posted to help us make it through our winter.

Brady
>        Luke Williams      | "I'll never understand you, son," Mrs Zimmerman
>        guild@ecr.mu.oz.au | used to sigh - and she was right, she never did.
>                           |            Ben Elton, `Stark'
>
=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~Brady Woodward PhD=~=~U56503@UICVM=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=
  SATAN to NEW-COMER: The trouble with you Chicago people is that you
  think that you are the best people down here, whereas you are merely
  the most mumerous. --Mark Twain  (All other thoughts are mine alone.)
=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=
From: satan@wpi.WPI.EDU (Matthew James Meyer)
Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday
Subject: i tried
Date: 7 Oct 1992 12:33:43 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: wpi.wpi.edu


covered with hope and vaseline
i still can't fix this broke machine...


i tried, i gave up
i tried, i gave up
i tried, i gave up...



-satan
Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday
From: dennis@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Thomas A. Dennis)
Subject: Re: a cheap holiday in other people's misery
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 15:00:42 GMT

1.  It wasn't terribly obvious, from the postings, that people had been 
fingering him every couple of days.  Maybe I missed it, I don't know.  It's
also not real obvious that some sysadmin could have logged in for him.

2.  When it seemed likely that he was dead, there were numerous notes on the
subject of his existence/nonexistence; as far as I can tell, no one has
commented on the subject since your "finger" post, until now.

Yeah, I know I asked for it--still, no need to get personal. :-(

I think that you've hit on the thing that bothers me most about some (not all)
of the activity in this group--the suicide-as-melodrama thread running through
some of the posts.  Maybe there should be an 'alt.suicide.serious' group for
people like myself, whose experience with successful and attempted suicides 
just doesn't square with the way the subject is treated--dare I say,
romanticized--in this group.  Until then, someone--not necessarily myself--
should still pop up from time to time to remind the more morbid a.s.h.ers that
someone's suicide is not an occasion for "a cheap holiday in other people's 
misery."

God, I've asked for it now...
--

Tom Dennis                    |  I looked into the abyss,
dennis@alexia.uiuc.edu        |    and the abyss looked into me--
tadg0614@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu     |      and we both winked.
Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday
From: EUCLID@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu
Subject: Re: stress....
Organization: C.C.S.O.
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 14:17:34 GMT

In article <Bw4yzt.32J@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>
jage@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (I like redheads.) writes:
 
>So I suggest, from personal and recent expierence, go outside and scream
>when stressing out.
>
>Any other suggestions?
>
   If you're not disabled, strenuous exercise helps (e.g.,running).
   Building a durable strawman (obviously not of straw) and beating it with
      a big stick sometimes works.
 
euclid
Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday