HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: schiles@valentine.us.oracle.com (Suzanne Chiles)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: McDonalds Veggie burger
Date: 17 Dec 92 22:43:24 GMT
Reply-To: schiles@us.oracle.com
Organization: Oracle Corporation
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <1992Dec15.144151.14538@zooid.guild.org>,
rwaigh@zooid.guild.org (Rosemary Waigh) writes:
|>
|>Maybe it's different in other parts of the world, but according to the
|>Toronto Vegetarian Handbook McDonald's french fries and hash browns are
|>par-fried in beef tallow oil before they reach the store, and then refried in
|>vegetable oil.
|>
|>However, according to the same source, KFC fries are vegetarian, and they are
|>planning on introducing "a vegetarian battered product".
 

My mind boggles to imagine a "vegetarian battered product." 
Batter-fried tofu chunks?   Batter-fried cauliflower?  Oh my!

Suzanne
       
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Suzanne Chiles         Honor Diversity            schiles@us.oracle.com
415-506-6194                                         Oracle Corporation
                   Hate is not a family value
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: cathyf@is.rice.edu (Catherine Anne Foulston)
Subject: Re: World Guide to Vegetarianism - 3/5 - USA
Organization: Rice University
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 01:25:56 GMT

>Houston
>-------
>
>Wonderful Vegetarian Restaurant, 7549 Westheimer (at Hillcroft), 977-3137
>- Vegan. Chinese Buddhist. Very highly recommended. The only
>  vegetarian restaurant in town.

Also one of the few, or maybe only, kosher restaurants, according to
the newspaper article (from a local Jewish newspaper) in the window.

Is it worth adding that to the entry?  Are there a lot of Orthodox
vegetarians around?

Oh yeah, and it is in fact Wonderful.  But many dishes may be too
meat-like for some people.  Should that caveat go in the posting?
I know it needs to be kept concise.  But stilI being omnivorous, I
am unable to judge how important it is to warn folks about that.

>Vegetarian Friendly Restaurants:

I am surprised the Hobbit Hole Cafe is not on here.  If anyone knows
some reason why it shouldn't be, like maybe they started abusing the
baby corn or something, please let me know.  I think The Hobbit Hole
was once completely veg but is not now.  They have a lot of lacto-veg
(black bean nachos to die for) and some vegan things, and non-veg
things.  Many of the lacto dishes could easily be modified to be vegan.
Special bonus is the Tolkien-related decor and recipe names.

Two more which I will eventually write up for the list:
Baba Yega, kinda like the Hobbit Hole but less veg, but I think any
place that serves a veggie burger deserves a mention.

Whole Foods Market, an excellent chain of grocery stores.  Not entirely
vegetarian, but lots of good stuff veggies look for, all natural foods.

Houston is not as veg friendly as some places, but I am surprised
there aren't more places listed.  Maybe someone who knows the Indian
restaurants around here could come up with the best ones for the list
also.  I like (some) Indian food but none of my friends do so I never
get to go out and eat it.  Lucky I can get it frozen at Whole Foods.
Someday I'll learn to cook it.  :-)  (Now why didn't I ask for that
Indian cookbook for Christmas that always gets discussed here?  Can
someone please remind me of the name?)

	Cathy
-- 
Cathy Foulston + Rice University + Network & Systems Support + cathyf@rice.edu
Why you should recycle bytes:  "Believe it or not, most deleted bytes currently
find their way straight into the Internet refuse stream, often to turn up in
postings to Usenet, or worse, OSI standards documents!"  -- Peter Deutsch
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: tms@cs.umd.edu (Tom Swiss (not Swift, not Suiss, Swiss!))
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Medicine & the Mall
Date: 19 Dec 92 21:52:52 GMT
Organization: The Reality Liberation Front (pixels to the people!)

tara@starburst.umd.edu (Tara McDermott) writes:
>This of course only applies to those who agree that plants suffer
>horribly by being harvested and eaten.  I wonder if the kosher people
>know about this angle.  They had better devise a way of slowly
>torturing plants to fit in with their religious beliefs when it comes
>to devouring plant food!  This refers to the kosher method of killing
>cows - letting them bleed dry, while still alive, and not bothering
>with more humane ways of killing them such as using a stun gun. 

     That's not fair, Tara. The kosher laws do not in themselves
require "inhumane" slaughter methods (if one can reasonably talk about
"humane" slaughter). It's when they're put together with certain health
regulations that the process becomes cruel. There is a movement within
the Jewish community to change the kosher laws because of this.

===============================================================================
Tom Swiss/tms@cs.umd.edu  |  "Born to die"   |   Keep your laws off my brain!
     "What's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding?" - Nick Lowe 
                     Keep your values off my family.
The Official MBA Handbook on business cards:
      Avoid overly pretentious job titles such as "Lord of the
      Realm, Defender of the Faith, Emporer of Siberia" or
      "Director of Corporate Planning".
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: artemis@netcom.com (Michelle Dick)
Subject: Re: Looking for a good meatless cookbook
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 10:08:02 GMT

In article <tara.724457811@starburst.umd.edu> tara@starburst.umd.edu (Tara McDermott) writes:
>... some recipes come from
>renounced vegetarian restaurants in the US....

Hee hee.

Sorry to highlight your mistyping, Tara, but it's *funny*.

--
Michelle Dick
artemis@netcom.com
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: wheeler@super.org (Ferrell S. Wheeler)
Subject: Secret Life of Plants (Excerpt)
Organization: Supercomputing Research Center (Bowie, MD)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 16:46:20 GMT

I apologize if this is a repost, but I think the first post did
not make it out.  Unbelievably (IMHO) this book continues to be
cited by some as a scientific reference work on "pain" in plants.

[The following quote should allow rec.food.veg readers to begin
to evaluate the scientific merits of the book "The Secret Life
of Plants" which inevitably creeps into misguided discussions
of ethical vegetarianism.  I believe this was originally posted
in another newsgroup in order to supply a good laugh.  The
emphases were added by the original poster. --Ferrell Wheeler]


The following is a quote from "THE SECRET LIFE OF PLANTS", 
[See Footnote.], by Peter Tompkins and Christopher Bird, 1973, page 38: 
          
          ....."As Sauvin's main problem remained that of getting his 
          plants to be sharply attuned to his person rather than to 
          their immediate environment, when he was away for several 
          days, he had to devise some means of attracting his plants' 
          attention even more effectively than addressing them over the 
          long-distance phone.  As his plants reacted most strongly to 
          any damage done to himself or to any part of his own energy 
          field, he experimented with remotely killing a few cells of 
          his body in the presence of the plants.  The system worked 
          admirably.  The problem was to obtain cells that would remain 
          alive for protracted periods.  Blood worked well enough, hair 
          was difficult to kill, but sperm worked best of all, because, 
          as Sauvin explained, it was easier to obtain than bleeding, 
          and much less painful. 

               "These experiments led Sauvin to wonder if plants might 
          not react just as well to emotions of pleasure and joy as to 
          pain and shock.  Not only was he tired of shocking himself, 
          he was afraid that repeated shocks to his plants, even 
          indirect ones, might be UNPLEASANTLY LOADING HIS KARMA.  
          Sauvin soon found that his plants did react to joy and 
          pleasure, but with wave patterns that were not sharp enough 
          to trigger a switch reliably.  Undaunted, Sauvin decided on a 
          more daring experiment.  DURING A HOLIDAY WITH A GIRL FRIEND 
          AT HIS LAKESIDE COTTAGE HE ESTABLISHED THAT HIS PLANTS, 
          EIGHTY MILES AWAY, WOULD REACT WITH VERY HIGH PEAKS ON THE 
          TONE OSCILLATOR TO THE ACUTE PLEASURE OF [his] SEXUAL CLIMAX, 
          GOING RIGHT OFF THE TOP AT THE MOMENT OF ORGASM.  All of 
          which was very interesting and could be turned into a 
          COMMERCIALLY MARKETABLE DEVICE FOR JEALOUS WIVES TO MONITOR 
          THEIR PHILANDERING HUSBANDS, BY MEANS OF A POTTED 
          BEGONIA.".... 
          
          
          Footnote: Chapter 17 is about BIOLOGICAL TRANSMUTATIONS.
                    Chapters 19 and 20 are about RADIONICS/PSIONICS.

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: mwisdom@bnr.ca (Mark Wisdom)
Subject: World Guide to Vegetarianism - 1/5 - Intro
Reply-To: mwisdom@bnr.ca (Mark Wisdom)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 17:46:29 GMT
Expires: 15 Jan 1993 12:00:00 GMT

I posted these last night to rec.food.veg & net.answers, but they
don't seem to have made it. So I'm posting them again only to
rec.food.veg. If anyone knows what the proper precedure is for
getting stuff on net.answers, please send me an e-mail.


______________________________________________________________________

                          rec.food.veg's
                   World Guide to Vegetarianism

______________________________________________________________________


This 5 part listing contains a world list of vegetarian restaurants,
vegetarian-friendly restaurants, natural food stores, vegetarian
organizations, etc. It is far from complete, but nonetheless should
answer some questions for many people.

If you have any additions or corrections please e-mail them to me
or post them on rec.food.veg. Please format any new or corrected
entries in the same format as those in the listings. Keep comments
and reviews short, simple, and straight to the point as much as
possible.

If you wish to become the editor of the listings for your area,
please contact me. We are always looking for volunteers. Currently
we have the following regional co-ordinators:

  Washington, DC & area:        Andrea Shettle
                                (RED_TREK@DRYCAS.CLUB.CC.CMU.edu)
  Seattle & Washington state:   Phil Hughes (food@fylz.com)
  Montreal & Ottawa, Canada:    Mark Wisdom (mwisdom@bnr.ca)

Co-ordinators are needed for any place on Earth not listed above.
In addition, I believe that the following cities could have their
listings greatly improved, so if you're from one of these cities,
please consider becoming a regional co-ordinator, or at least send
me a listing for your area.

  Sydney, Australia
  Toronto, Canada
  London, England
  Paris, France
  New York City, USA
  Los Angeles, USA
  San Francisco, USA
  Chicago, USA
  Madison, Wisconsin, USA

Suggestions for additional cities to stick in the above list are
welcome.

Enjoy these listings,

Mark Wisdom (mwisdom@bnr.ca)

______________________________________________________________________
From: richard@pyra.co.uk (Richard McCormack)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Veggie restaurants in Paris
Date: 15 Dec 92 20:17:43 GMT
Reply-To: richard@pyra.co.uk  (Richard McCormack)
Organization: Pyramid Technology Ltd.

In <1992Dec15.135016.1@geovax.ed.ac.uk> brigid@geovax.ed.ac.uk writes:

>Would anyone with knowledge of any (if there are any) vegetarian
>restaurants in the centre of Paris please e-mail the details to 
>me.

Well, there are new ones opening all the time I'm glad to say.

Your best bet is to buy a copy of a magazine like 'Paris Spectacles'
(no not glasses :-) ) from one of the street side book stalls and 
look under it's restauarant section at Vegetarian or Micro-biotic once
you get there
-- 

      -m------- Richard McCormack	       Tel : +44 252 373035
    ---mmm----- Pre Sales Support 	       Fax : +44 252 373135
  -----mmmmm--- Pyramid Technology Ltd.        richard@pyra.co.uk
-------mmmmmmm- Farnborough GU14 7PL, England.
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Vegetarians or not vegetarians?
Date: 17 Dec 92 00:55:42 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Dec17.005542.18361
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <50590@shamash.cdc.com> ldh@svl.cdc.com (Lawrence D. Hare) writes:
>I am surprised that very few people here bother to say whether they are
>vegetarian or not when criticizing. I find it puzzling for example, as I
>do not have a great deal of free time, why a couple of recurrent writers
>(Steve Dyer and Rich Young) post so much. They never say it, but they
>certainly do not sound like dedicated vegetarians. Are they dev
>a life study of vegetarianism without reaping the benefits? Or simply
>have lots of free time while chewing on dead animals? I am using these
>two as an example because they are so often found in here. 

Ah, the reincarnation of Abhay, I see.

Well, comments these speak for themselves.  

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: ldh@svl.cdc.com (Lawrence D. Hare)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Vegetarians or not vegetarians?
Date: 16 Dec 92 17:14:37 GMT
Organization: Control Data Systems
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1.1d9
X-XXMessage-ID: <A754A392CA010456@ethelred.svl.cdc.com>
X-XXDate: Wed, 16 Dec 92 09:12:50 GMT


am a vegan vegetarian interested in exchanging and learning ideas from
other vegetarians. 

I am surprised that very few people here bother to say whether they are
vegetarian or not when criticizing. I find it puzzling for example, as I
do not have a great deal of free time, why a couple of recurrent writers
(Steve Dyer and Rich Young) post so much. They never say it, but they
certainly do not sound like dedicated vegetarians. Are they dev
a life study of vegetarianism without reaping the benefits? Or simply
have lots of free time while chewing on dead animals? I am using these
two as an example because they are so often found in here. 

Many thanks for the courtesy of those who bother to be clear when they
post controversial material, replies and rebuttals.

By the way: The inhumane "manufacturing" of factory animals for human
consumption kills a lot more plants than we would kill if we all became
vegetarians. So if we care for plants, let's stop eating animals.
Animal eaters who think that such an attitude is hypocritical can
restrain from eating both animals and plants to set a good example if
they wish.

Donata
-----------------------------------
Donata M. Valli c/o ldh@svl.cdc.com
"I am in favor of animal rights as well as human rights. That is the way
of a whole human being."
    Abraham Lincoln (1809-1865)
From: tms@cs.umd.edu (Tom Swiss (not Swift, not Suiss, Swiss!))
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Medicine & the Mall
Date: 12 Dec 92 07:44:50 GMT
Organization: The Reality Liberation Front (pixels to the people!)

avi@seal.imagen.com writes:
>>
>>     Are you being deliberately obtuse? No, of course my defintion of
>>life is not a "complex nervous system". Plants, fungi, and bacteria
>>are alive, but have no nervous system.
>
>Then if you agree that Plants, fungi, and bacteria are alive, then obviously
>you be murdering them upon cooking and eating.

     Obviously I'm killing them. All life feeds on death. Plants feed on 
deay products in the soil, and on the slow heat death of the sun.

>If they are alive - they also
>have a right to live just as much as animals do.

     On what grounds do you make this statement?

>Who are you to play God
>and say that killing cows is wrong and killing plants is right ?
>In other words, why dont you extend the "Ahimsa" (non-harming) argument to
>plants as well.

     For one thing, I'd starve. Gotta eat, you know.

     Now, I'm not completely without respect for plants. I keep a
few spider plants around, and the do quite well. I don't go around
chopping down trees for no reason, v

>>     However, compassion results from a recognition of similarity
>>between self and other. 
>
>Wrong. Compassion is and should be derived from recognition of the 
>HARM and PAIN afflicted on the organism if treated in an uncompassionate way.
>Eating plants is just as uncompassionate as eating animals, both of them 
>needing to be killed in order to be consumed, and both feeling (and reacting) to 
>this pain in MEASURABLE ways.

     Simply not true. To feel pain - or to feel anything at all - a brain
or equivalent structure is required. Simple reaction to damage is not the
same as pain - a very simple mechanism can detect and react to damage.

>Interestingly, ancinet civilization (such as the American Indians and others)
>who we consider "primitive" but otherwise were much closer to Nature than we 
>ever have been, used to TALK to the plants/fruits they were about to pick and
>ask for their forgiveness of killing them, before they do that. Obviously, they
>recognized the above facts, which were scientifically confirmed in the latter half of the 20th century.

     No, they weren't.

===============================================================================
Tom Swiss/tms@cs.umd.edu  |  "Born to die"   |   Keep your laws off my brain!
     "What's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding?" - Nick Lowe 
                     Keep your values off my family.
     "I can identify with steelworkers. I can identify with workers that
      have had a difficult time."
      -- Vice President Dan Quayle addressing 
         workers at an Ohio steel plant,1988
From: brigid@geovax.ed.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Veggie restaurants in Paris
Date: 18 Dec 92 09:12:26 GMT
Organization: University of Edinburgh, Geography Department.

In article <HANS.92Dec16155106@ravn.iesd.auc.dk>, hans@iesd.auc.dk (Hans Huttel) writes:
> Could we persuade brigid@geovax.ed.ac.uk to post a summary [maybe
> after her visit to Paris] ?

I certainly will. Look out for it in the new year.

Brigid
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: meridiem@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Jill Engel)
Subject: Re: McDonalds Veggie burger
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 01:11:34 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523

In article <1992Dec10.150813.27577@Firewall.Nielsen.Com> jkapson@ad-29.Naitc.Com (John Kapson) writes:
>>The article I saw said there were no plans to market it in the US
>>and quoted two or three business analysts who said that there would
>>be a miniscule customer base for it here.  Fools.  There may not be
>>that many of us, but whoever gets that veggie burger first will get
>>all the veggie fast food business.
>
>Which should send their earnings skyrocketing up about 0.01% right?
>Seriously, how big a veggie market is their in the US?  I'd probably
>eat a veggie burger ossasionally, but in general, I avoid places like
>McD's or BK.  When I want vegetarian fare, I usually just go to a
>Chinese or Indian restaurant.

I think I would have to agree with Andy here.  Sure their profits wouldn't
be huge, but I don't think most veggies avoid fast food places entirely.
And, if one includes the psuedo-vegetarians, I think there might be a pretty
good market.  I for one do eat at fast food places when I (and my SO) are on
driving trips, and we actively look for McDonalds.  For a large corportation
and of all the fast food places, they seem to have the best ethics, at
least visably.  I am veg to pseudo-veg for environmental reasons and they
seem at least a little concerned about that.  They are also not involved in
the anti-abortion campaign like Wendy's (plus W's has lots of paper/styrofoam
waste per meal, gah.)  Also, while I too would prefer an Indian or Chinese
restaurant, they are not available in many parts of the country, they are
usually pricey, and they are not fast enough when one is travelling to make
time.  And finally, McDonald's consistantly has the cleanest restrooms. (8

I am surprised at myself defending a place like McDonalds.  And, I can see
the point that many strict and/or ethical vegetarians would avoid them all
together.  Still, I see some hope that the choice will be available to the
average consumer.  And I believe many will start to make that choice.  
Realistically, not everyone in this world is going to become vegan anytime
in our lifetime. Instead, I am thrilled that change like this is occuring
and that so many people are at least cutting some meat out of their diet.
The world would be a better place if 10% of the burgers were veggie. 

								Jill


*  Jill Engel (Anne Meridiem)  * "If the world were a logical place, *
* meridiem@lamar.colostate.edu *  men would ride side-saddle."       *
*                              *                    --Rita Mae Brown * 
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: georgec@eng.umd.edu (George B. Clark)
Subject: Re: What's the Best Juicer
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 22:05:49 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland
Keywords: {

In article <altar.724441118@sfu.ca> altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar) writes:
>altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar) writes:
>
>
>One final note:  Remember, juice CANNOT be any better than the
>produce from which it is made!  Best to buy fresh, good quality
>produce, preferably organic if you can get it :-)
>

This point should be emphasized.

Juicers are non-essential to a vegetarian lifestyle, and there is no data
to support the advertised health claims for them. In fact, given that most
people are fiber deficient, your mother would be better off eating the
whole fruit or vegetable.

Your mother should re-assess her reasons for wanting a juicer, and be
sure her motive is not based on false health claims. 

Also, buying organic foods, as Ted suggests, is non-essential. There is
no data anywhere supporting claims that organic food is healthier than
food grown with fertilizer and pesticides. 

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: young@serum.kodak.com (Rich Young)
Subject: Re: Medicine & the Mall
Originator: young@sasquatch
Reply-To: young@serum.kodak.com
Organization: Clinical Diagnostics Division, Eastman Kodak Company
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 92 19:09:00 GMT

In article <62786@mimsy.umd.edu> tms@cs.umd.edu (Tom Swiss (not Swift, not Suiss, Swiss!)) writes:

[...]

>     Simply not true. To feel pain - or to feel anything at all - a brain
>or equivalent structure is required. Simple reaction to damage is not the
>same as pain - a very simple mechanism can detect and react to damage.

	Ah, here we have it at last: the standard semantic retreat to the
	dictionary definition of "pain", rather than consideration of the
	basic principles involved.  What makes you think that "pain" is not
	the animal equivalent to the plant's "mechanism to detect and react
	to damage?"


-Rich Young (These are not Kodak's opinions.)

P.S. You might want to consider setting follow-ups to t.p.a. as someone has
	already suggested.  I won't do it because I know that some do not
	receive the "talk" groups.
From: amcmicha@gmuvax2.gmu.edu (Andrew McMichael)
Subject: Hummus
Organization: George Mason University, Fairfax, Virginia, USA
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 17:30:02 GMT

I'm not sure if this is going through, as my newsfeed is down, but:

I missed the postings that contained the hummus recipies [and
all others].  Could one or two kind souls please E-mail me your
favorite hummus recipie.  Thanks.



-- 
Andrew McMichael
George Mason University
Fairfax, Va
amcmicha@gmuvax2.gmu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg