HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dillon@overload.Berkeley.CA.US (Matthew Dillon)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
Subject: Re:	Recovering ROM monitor password
Distribution: world
Date: 15 Oct 92 13:13:26 PST
Organization: Not an Organization

In article <1992Oct15.022711.26392@cube.handheld.com> jmd@cube.handheld.com (Jim De Arras) writes:
>In article <dillon.0pa7@overload.Berkeley.CA.US> dillon@overload.Berkeley.CA.US
>(Matthew Dillon) writes:
>>
>>     Believe it or not people use trickle charge circuits all the time to
>>     extend the life of lithium batteries in backup situations.	This is
>>     usually necessary only when the battery would discharge due to current
>>     requirements long before it's normal shelf life expires.  With a proper
>>     charging circuit you can extend the lithium batteries backup
>>     capabilities all the way to its shelf life limit (5yr or 10yr usu).  In
>>     applications where the shelf life would expire before the nominal mAH
>>     of the battery is used up such a circuit is not required.
>>
>WRONG.  Please checkout my domain name.   Hand Held Products, Inc.  I have been
>designing battery powered devices for over 10 years, now.  Every FedEx courier

    For the record, we don't use lithium batteries at all over here... we
    use 5.5V 0.22 Farad dime capacitors for our backup requirements and
    led-acid gel cells as a primary power source.  For a portable
    application, led-acid gel cells are great because you can easily charge
    them off the vehicle's battery and don't have to worry too much about
    limiting charging current or other nasties (i.e. if you are close to
    the battery's nominal voltage you do not have to worry about
    overcharging).  There is really no need at all to use lithium or other
    expensive batteries.  We use flash rom for configuration / program
    storage so the dime cap need only backup the real time clock chip.

					    -Matt

>Jim De Arras
>VP., R&D
>Hand Held Products, Inc.
>jmd@cube.handheld.com
>WA4ONG@wa4ong.ampr.org

--

    Matthew Dillon		dillon@Overload.Berkeley.CA.US
    1005 Apollo Way		uunet.uu.net!overload!dillon
    Incline Village, NV. 89451	ham: KC6LVW (no mail drop)
    USA 			Sandel-Avery Engineering (702)831-8000

Xref: sparky comp.sys.next.misc:20837 comp.sys.next.sysadmin:5809
From: drd@physics11 (Douglas R. Davidson)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin
Subject: Re: swapfile & swapfile.front & IB
Followup-To: comp.sys.next.sysadmin
Date: 12 Oct 1992 05:49:01 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: physics11.berkeley.edu
Summary: still something of a mystery

In article <1992Oct12.032523.5364@netcom.com> vin@netcom.com (Vin Locke) writes:

>	I, too, found a swapfile.front in addition to my swapfile after I
>did the 3.0 upgrade.  It bothered me, so I tried a few stunts, like editing
>/etc/swaptab so my file was named swapfile.front ; I rebooted, and you know
>what I found? In addition to swapfile.front, there was now a
>swapfile.front.front file!
>Weird thing is that the swapfile.front file is no longer being created, but I
>don't know why it stopped.  The another weird thing was that when I was getting
>this swapfile.front (no, Scott, you weren't seeing things), the "mount" utility
>was reporting "/Internal/vm/swapfile.front" as a device! Internal is a hard 
>disk mount of /dev/sd1a, which did show up as it should when calling mount, so
>mount was showing 3 devices when I only had two.  I looked through the 
>doc files and could find no mention of this -- strange.  Perhaps this is a
>new Mach feature in 3.0.

Check out the manpage for mount_swapfs.  Apparently swapfile.front isn't 
a separate file--it's just a frontend for optimized access to swapfile.
Unfortunately, the documentation on this point is not very complete.
I would appreciate hearing from anyone who really knows the details;
for example, I want to know just where in the boot process mount_swapfs
gets invoked, and what the best way is to put the swapfile onto another
disk.


                                 Douglas Davidson
                                 drd@physics.berkeley.edu
Xref: sparky comp.sys.next.misc:21016 comp.sys.next.sysadmin:5937
From: jonv@ptnext.claremont.edu (Jon Vestal)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin
Subject: Dot Matrix Printers?
Date: 16 Oct 92 19:01:56 GMT
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711

Hi,

I am in the process of connecting our NeXT network with our Novell network and  
am wondering if it is possible to use a dot matrix print from the NeXT.  Our  
Novell net has Imagewriters, IBM Proprinters (9 pin) and a few IBM Graphics  
printers.  Are there drives for these printers?  How is conversion from  
postscript to text taken care of?  Is it, or can you only print from a limited  
number of applications, such as Edit?  Any help would be greatly appreciated.   
Please e-mail me and I will sumarize.  Thanks.

Jon Vestal
Systems Administrator
Pitzer College
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: songer@lexmark.com (Christopher Songer)
Subject: Re: 2.2 Still an Option?
Followup-To: comp.sys.next.advocacy
X-Disclaimer: These views are the poster's and not necessarily those of Lexmark
Organization: Lexington, KY
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 18:27:00 GMT

lemson@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (David Lemson) writes:

>If you seriously think that OpenLook is a more productive
>environment, then I'd say you haven't had to use it for very long.
>(IMHO, as a biased opinion)

Hi!

     I use openwindows and openlook at work and Nextstep at home. I 
used Nextstep at school and was CC for Purdue. I've been living 
with openwindows for the last six months.

     For a UNIX jockey, openlook is not bad. If you are comfortable
with a UNIX editor and the command line, Openwindows is fine. It's
just like X for me. It does have an editor and Filemanager, but they
are worse than the command line equivalents. Make no mistake though,
if you use openlook/openwindows you are committing to UNIX at the 
command line level.

     Nextstep does a much better job of removing the UNIX command line
from normal system usage. It has a good source editor, the Filemanager
is much better than the command line. Nextstep blows openlook away as
far as usefulness goes. When I run Openlook I have about 5 terminals
hanging around. When I run Nextstep I have only one hidden terminal.

     On the other hand the Next hardware tends to be slower. Not
lots slower, but definitely slower.

     There are definitely tradeoffs with Next machines. However, even
given that Lexmark is pretty much a Sun / IBM shop, I'm still pushing
to get a Next into the budget for me. I find that the gains of a powerful 
interface outweigh the modest drop in speed. 

-Chris (Speaking for himself and not Lexmark)

PS: As a final comment, I don't find 3.0 on a 28Meg 040 Cube to be any
slower that Openlook/Openwin on an IPX. 3.0 definitely needs memory 
though. At 12 Meg 3.0 was a pig. At 28 Meg it is great! (With one
exception.....I'm about to post to c.s.n.p about the exception.)

Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: jeffo@uiuc.edu (J.B. Nicholson-Owens)
Subject: Re: right now
Reply-To: jeffo@uiuc.edu (J.B. Nicholson-Owens)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 05:06:13 GMT

andrew@cubetech.com writes
> NeXTSTEP sure does come with a word-processor!  It's called Edit.

The inability of Edit (even with RTF) to do footnotes, page numbering, headers  
and footers makes Edit most unusable as a word processor.  It's a nice text  
editor for code and informal letters, but it's certainly no replacement for  
even the simplest of modern word processors.  Also, NeXTs inoperative spell  
checker and lack of integrated thesaurus work against Edit being anything more  
than a fancy code editor.

I wonder if this is part of a unbundling plan or part of a plan to make the  
common denominator something NeXT can do as well (the majority of modern  
computers can read and write ASCII at the very least).
-- 
-- Jeff (jeffo@uiuc.edu)
-- NeXTmail ok
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: paul@seer.demon.co.uk (Paul Lynch)
Subject: Re: Recycler Stiff?
Organization: P & L Systems
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 16:14:23 GMT

In article <1992Oct9.114539.9363@wam.umd.edu> gaia@wam.umd.edu (L. Anathea  
Brooks) writes:
> 
> Has anyone else noticed with dismay that the recycler is no longer  
animated
> under 3.0? Doesn't "cycle".

Sorry; mine cycles.  It also displays a smaller dot in the centre when I  
flush a removeable disk.

Paul
-- 
Paul Lynch
P & L Systems                   (NeXTmail) paul@seer.demon.co.uk
Tel: (0494)671501                      paull@cix.compulink.co.uk
Fax: (0494)680228                       76711.451@compuserve.com
From: jmd@cube.handheld.com (Jim De Arras)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
Subject: Re: Call for Volunteers *warning*
Date: 9 Oct 92 01:42:07 GMT
Organization: Hand Held Products, Inc.

In article <1992Oct6.004555.24796@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>  
aha@kiptron.psyc.virginia.edu (Adult Human Abilities Project) writes:
> In article <1992Sep30.222442.22322@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>  
aha@squeeg.psyc.virginia.edu (Adult Human Abilities Project) writes:
> >
> >Dear NeXT Computer Users-
> >
> >It has been suggested that NeXT computer users are different than
> >other people -- somehow special.  We are psychometricians studying
> >adult cognitive abilities and we would like to see if we can measure
> >some aspects of these differences.    
> >
> >We have developed a small NeXTSTEP program that allows us to present
> >cognitive abilities tests remotely by using the NeXT computer.  This
> >will be, to the best of our knowledge, the first wide-scale remote
> >psychometric testing using the Internet.    
> >
> >
> 
> We have had good response to our call for volunteers.
> Thank you to all who have replied.
> 
> We have two small announcements to make at this time.
> 
> 1.  A good number of people within NeXT Computer, Inc. have signed
>     up to participate in the experiment.  Due to concerns within
>     NeXT about network security, the PsyLog program will be distributed
>     within NeXT using a separate channel.  NeXT employees who wish to
>     participate can obtain PsyLog from Lars Rabbe in IS.  Your data
>     will be encrypted and sent directly to the Adult Human Abilities
>     Project at the University of Virginia.
> 
> 2.  We need some more volunteers.  We especially need people who
>     consider themselves unlikely or unwilling to volunteer.  If
>     you are such a person, please do help us out.  Sometimes the
>     people who don't volunteer are different than the people who
>     do.  We need _everyone_!  Do it today!
> 
> Steve Boker
>  
> 
> -- 
> The Adult Human Abilities Project      *-------------------------------*
> Jefferson Psychometric Laboratory      | aha@kiptron.psyc.virginia.edu |
> The University of Virginia             *-------------------------------*
> Charlottesville, VA 22903                          

I just got my test, and did the first half.  It gives you a short break in the  
middle.  My countdown clock never started, and the app is now frozen.   
Considerable mental effort and 1/2 hour plus have been wasted.

Your mileage may vary.  But you've been forewarned.

Jim
From: aozer@next.com (Ali Ozer)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
Subject: Re: Another modest proposal for NeXT
Date: 13 Oct 92 17:34:33 GMT
Organization: Next Computer, Inc.

In article <1992Oct12.035934.26015@news2.cis.umn.edu> Linus Upson writes:
>Does anyone know how to get a list of the names of all the system bitmaps in  
>/usr/lib/NextStep/Resources/Shared(Color|Gray)[Alpha].tiff?
>(ala +findImagedNamed:)  The docs on system bitmaps only cover a small 
>fraction of the images here.  ...

The images described in the docs are the only ones guaranteed to be around
between releases... The images that are not documented may disappear (for
instance a few of the old named images which went away under 3.0).

Ali, Ali_Ozer@NeXT.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: woo@ornl.gov(John W. Wooten)
Subject: Re: Edit.app in 3.0.  Goto Line # removed!
Organization: Oak Ridge National Laboratory
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 12:13:58 GMT

In article <PAUL.92Oct6104321@music.sie.arizona.edu>  
paul@music.sie.arizona.edu (Paul J. Sanchez) writes:
> Did I miss something, or did they actually remove the "jump to line  
#"
> feature (command-l) from Edit?  How could they do this???
NOt removed.  There are two modes (see preferences) for Edit, a user  
mode and a developers mode.  All the old features plus some are in the  
developers mode.

-----------------
J. W. Wooten
Lines: 50
Date: Thu,  8 Oct 92 19:06:39 MDT
From: yackd@alaska.et.byu.edu (Don Yacktman)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
Distribution: world
Organization: Brigham Young University, Provo UT USA
Subject: Re: Recovering ROM monitor password


(-; (-: (-; (-: (-; (-: (-; (-: (-; :-) ;-) :-) ;-) :-) ;-) :-) ;-) :-)

In article <1992Oct8.235240.10062@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>, coco@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (felix.lugo) writes:
>In article <5357@rosie.NeXT.COM> amm@NeXT.COM (Alan M. Marcum) writes:
>>Someone asked about eliminating the hardware password.  One
>>proposal put forward was to reverse the battery for a few
>>seconds.  This elicited the following response:
>>
>>--
>>Alan M. Marcum
>>NeXT Tech Support
>>amm@NeXT.COM
>>
>>Private P.S. to P.C.: thanks.
>
>	Who else missed the 8^) in my previous posting?  Has this symbol,
>or its many incantations, ceased to convey "not seriously speaking"?  I'm
>sorry if I insulted some of you by composing such a message.  Seems like
>they've lost all sense of humor (probably as a result of 3.0)!

Or have you?  Some of the suggestions put forth by Alan were positively
wondrously humorful.  Extinguish a match in gas?  Run gallons of water
through the fan?  I thought it humorous, and it's nice to see NeXT
employees actually contribute to discussions here.  Better not chase
them away, seeing as they've been so shy in the past. :-)

I decided to post this mostly because the reply reminded me of one
of my favorite computer documentation laughs of all time.  The original
users manuals for the Apple ][+ had a passage that mentioned how
sturdy the Apple ][ is; it said something to the effect that if you
take reasonably good care of it, it will last a long time unless you
do something stupid like "leave it outside in the rain or type with
a hammer."  I'd like to see more humor in computer documentation, it's
so refreshing.  (I remember getting a couple of chuckles going through
the 3.0 release notes, so I guess the folks writing them were starting
to go stir crazy by that time...:-)  )

>Private P.S. to A.M.M. and P.C.: G.F.Y.

What, no smiley?  :-), I think.  If it means what comes to mind
first, a smiley would have been _much_ more polite. :)

Oh, and this whole thing should be read with a big :-) all over,
since that's what's been on my face while typing it.  :) :) :) :)

Later, :)
-Don Yacktman :)

(-; (-: (-; (-: (-; (-: (-; (-: (-; :-) ;-) :-) ;-) :-) ;-) :-) ;-) :-) 
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: lux@sol.UVic.CA (Michael O'Henly)
Subject: Relational databases for the NeXT
Keywords: ingres postgres oracle sybase dataphile
Organization: University of Victoria
Date: 10 Oct 92 21:39:51 GMT

	A couple of weeks ago I asked for information about relational
database managers for the NeXT. I was looking for something roughly
comparable to dBASE on other platforms...

	Although I got several thoughtful responses, most seemed to
agree that there isn't a lot to choose from that might fall between,
say, DataPhile and Sybase or Oracle in terms of power/price. The whole
notion of a relational, end-user DBMS just seems not to have happened
as a NeXTstep product. (By "end-user", I'm saying that I don't want to
have to be a programmer just to use the damn thing.)

	So, I'm looking in another direction now - a more generic DBMS
that can I could run under a shell. Can anyone tell me whether
Berekely's University Ingres or any other comparable public domain
packages have been ported to the NeXT? (I guess part of that question
is whether they'll run under NeXTstep 3.0 -- although I'm still using
2.2 for now.)

	Thanks for any suggestions...

	Michael.

-- 
Michael O'Henly                 
McPherson Library                Internet:  lux@sol.uvic.ca
University of Victoria                      lux@uvvm.uvic.ca
Victoria, B.C., Canada             BITNET:  lux@uvvm
From: rb@acsu.buffalo.edu (Rick Bidlack)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
Subject: Wanted to buy
Date: 10 Oct 92 04:51:26 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: UB

The Banff Centre for the Arts in Banff, Alberta, is looking to
buy a used NeXTStation or possibly a cube if the price is right.
If you have a machine for sale, please send a complete description,
including price, to rb@cpsc.ucalgary.ca

Thanks
Rick Bidlack
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: cdl@chiton.ucsd.edu (Carl Lowenstein)
Subject: Re: How do I set SCSI ID of internal 330MB Maxtor of Cube?
Organization: Marine Physical Lab, UC San Diego
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 01:05:27 GMT

In article <2103@ltb.ltb.bso.nl> gerben@rna.indiv.nluug.nl writes:
>As you all know CDPlayer.app does not work when SCSI ID 0 and 1 are in use.
>
>When I look at it when I open my cube I see:
>
>[SCSI connector] [.::] [:::.:] [power]
>
>You can see two pins of the jumper connectors missing. They seem to be removed
>to prevent someone connecting them. There are no jumper-connectors installed,
>all pins are empty.  This is a cube from 1990. ("Ye Olde Cube")
>
>Does anybody know how I can set this drive to another SCSI ID?

Referring to my copy of MaxTor's XT-8000S OEM manual, I find the following:

The auxilliary connector shown above as [:::.:] (nice ASCII graphics)
has the following pin assignments (expanded picture)

	pin 9	pin 7	pin 5	pin 3	pin 1
	Gnd	-Wrt	-LED	(key)	+LED
		Protect

	pin10	pin 8	pin 6	pin 4	pin 2
	ID0	ID1	ID2	Gnd	(open)

ID0,ID1,ID2 are the bits of SCSI ID, with weights 1, 2, and 4, respectively
So you could change from SCSI ID=0 to SCSI ID=1 by putting a jumper between
pin 9 and pin 10.  However, this is not the standard method.  See below
for more information.

The rest of the pins have the following functions:
	pin 7: connect to ground to disable writing on the disk

	pin 5 and pin 1: connect an LED here to perform the same
		functions as the LED on the drive faceplate


Back to the SCSI ID:

	On the main circuit board of the drive you will find 3 jumpers
labeled JP35, JP36, and JP37.  They too control SCSI ID0, ID1, and ID2.
Jumper in for a 1, out for a 0.  They are actually in parallel with the
pins on the auxilliary connector.


-- 
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: jmd@cube.handheld.com (Jim De Arras)
Subject: Re: Considering getting an SGI indigo
Organization: Hand Held Products, Inc.
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 02:50:45 GMT

In article <BvproJ.Gzq@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu  
(Iskandar Taib) writes:
> In article <1992Oct04.085731.4924@microsoft.com> jhenshaw@microsoft.com (Jeff  
Henshaw) writes:
> 
> >This is what the 1993 NeXT product catalog has to say on
> >the subject:
> >
> >	"REGULATIONS
> >
> >	 - UL478, CSA 220, and IEC950
> >	   (EN60950) product safety
> >	   requirements
> >
> >	 - FCC Class A, VCCI Class 1, CISPR-22
> >	   Class A (EN550022) EMI
> >	   requirements"
> >      
> >What does all of this mean?  I'm not exactly sure, but it
> >applies to the NeXT Cube, NeXTstation, NeXTstation color,
> >and NeXTstation turbo models (ie - all of them).  I hope
> >this provides more information...
> 
> Means you can't use it at home. 
> 

Nope.  That means it can't be marketed for home use.  And if you chose to use  
it at home, you have no protection to claims of inteference from neighbors,  
you'll simply have to turn it off.  A concern really only in apartment  
buildings, and close houses.

> Unfortunately.
> 
> Class A is for office and industrial use only.
> 
> Now you _could_ build a Faraday cage  9-)
> 
> 
> -- 
>  
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala
> Internet: NTAIB@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU |    Frog is Frog ala Peach
> Bitnet:   NTAIB@IUBACS                 !

Jim

--
Jim De Arras            | The opinions expressed herein are
Hand Held Products, Inc.| not necessarily those of Hand 
804.784.3090 voice      | Held Products, Inc., and may not 
804.784.3147 FAX        | even be mine. Use at your own risk
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: nevin@dtint.dtint.com
Subject: Re: Appsoft Draw/Allegro Lisp - $150 ea
Reply-To: nevin@dtint.dtint.com
Organization: Digital Technology, International
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 92 18:23:49 GMT

Wow, I'm being bombed with requests about the Lisp package.
It's sold.

However, Appsoft Draw is still for sale.


--
NeXTmail preferred, but ONLY at my REAL email address: nevin@dtint.dtint.com

-- 
---
root	                               root@dtint.dtint.com
Digital Technology Int.                (801)226-2984	
500 W. 1200 South, Orem UT, 84057      FAX (801) 226-8438
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: chris (Chris Larson)
Subject: Re: NeXT Step on RS/6000?
Reply-To: chris@oceania.com
Organization: Oceania Health Care Systems
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 21:06:34 GMT

Sherwood Botsford writes
> Virtual Dave writes
> > 
> > Stuff about RS/6000
> 
> The tail I heard from an IBM Sales Engineer was that NS1.0 was indeed  
> ported over.  

I understand they have NS2.0 running on the RS/6000.

Chris

-- 
Chris Larson  <==>  chris@oceania.com  <==>  NeXT Mail is cool
Oceania Health Care Systems                      Palo Alto, CA
The Software Ranch                               Park City, UT
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: alberto@parsec.mixcom.com (Manuel Alberto Ricart)
Subject: Re: 3.0 FontPanel acceleration is broken (BUG!!?)
Organization: Is the act or process of organizing or of being organized.
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 03:59:37 GMT

In article <1992Oct7.194920.6125@mcshub.dcss.mcmaster.ca> pascal@nextasy.physics.mcmaster.ca (Pascal Gaudette) writes:
>In article <1992Oct7.030229.27428@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> coco@cbnewsl.cb.att.com  
>(felix.lugo) writes:
>
>>  Hold the press ... I just discovered that it DOES work.
>> 
>>  Follow these steps:
>> 
>>  * Launch Edit
>>  * Order front the Font Panel (Command-t)
>>  * Click on the title bar to make panel key
>>  * Select a Font and Typeface (say Courier-Bold12)
>>  * Click on Preview and click on the preview Text object
>>  * Shift-click on the Typeface already selected (i.e., Bold)
>>  * Now use the arrow keys to traverse the ................


Hot tamales! doing it that way it works!  Given the effort required
to use the "feature", I'd say it is a complete waste of time!
Who ever figured this out has his/her priorities in the wrong place.

CLARITY, and SIMPLICITY make ELEGANCE.

I think that the FontPanel should allow you to make a selection in
it without having to make it key by clicking on it. Excuse me, but
that is stupid. If the idea is NOT to have to take your hands
off the keyboard, this "shortcut" receives an "F" in my user interface
guidelines.
 
After all, I already went to the trouble of calling it <cmd>'t', (YO!!)
I should be able to type "Gil" + <cmd>'b'+ <ret> and that thing should
set my font to be Gill Sans Bold and go away until I summon it again.
While we are at it <cmd> '>' should make it bigger, <cmd> '<' smaller,
<cmd> '.' should make it go away and cancel.

BTW, what about adding all of that and a shelf on which to pop all of
my favory fonts? - I have been asking for this for a while. Since
the functionality is now, well in critical condition, what about fixing
those bugs and adding some really useful features. Or will we have to
wait until 4.0? (Homer beep!).

Really!!?

 
-- 
Manuel Alberto Ricart
alberto@parsec.mixcom.com <NeXTMail Welcome>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc