From: CBARNES@tamvm1.tamu.edu (Chris Barnes)
Subject: Re: Dog & Protection
Organization: Texas A&M University
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 14:05:01 GMT

In article <1992Oct7.220014.9900@morrow.stanford.edu>
   liza@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Liza Miller) writes:
 
 
Before I start, let me point out that this isn't a flame.  Nowhere
did I write "*flame on*", or am I SHOUTING.  I respect Liza, and
feel that she is a tremendous assest to this group.
 
 
>In article <168798537.CBARNES@tamvm1.tamu.edu> CBARNES@tamvm1.tamu.edu (Chris Barnes) writes:
>>She never has, but when someone approaches the yard that she doesn't
>>know, she appears to be just as protective as my GSD.
>>
>>I don't want people to get the wrong impression about my dogs.  They
>>are very well socialized, and never even the least bit aggressive
>>(my kids, ages 5, 3.5, and 2 play in the backyard with them all
>>them time - without us back there with them).
>>
>
>I have a problem with labs biting or being expected to bite.  Labs
>are, or should be IMO, friendly dogs.  They shouldn't bite or attack.  They
>may be protective and by that I mean bark at strangers or strange noises
>but it should never go further than that.
 
 
Huh?  Labs are first and foremost, dogs.  Dogs, all dogs, will have
a tendancy at some level to be protective (at least of themselves).
Dogs don't see a big differance between barking & growling
& biting; to them they are all a means to accomplish the same goal.
The difference between barking and biting is, IMHO, an arbitrary
one that humans thought up.  The dog couldn't care less (unless,
of course, we imposed a difference on the dog, but that still isn't
what the dog would have done).  In other words, I think it's silly
to have the expectation that a certain breed of dog (Labs in this
case) to inherantly know the difference between barking and biting.
Now if you want to say that Labs, as a breed, are less likely to
be protective (by any means - barking, growling, & biting), than
other breeds, then I will agree with you.
 
 
>Labs have been bred to be companions to hunters.  This entails a
>calm, patient attitude, an instinct to retrieve, and a love for the company
>of man.
 
All very true.  But that doesn't deny the fact that they can, and
often are also protective of what is "theirs" (Home, family, etc).
The two are not mutually exclusive.
 
 
>Labs tend to be, and should be, happy-go-lucky, loveable, friendly
>buddies.  Their instincts are not such that attacking is a part of their
>nature.
 
I think you are still merging protection and aggression.  IMHO, a dog
should be happy-go-lucky, loveable, friendly, buddies AND protective
(protective to the full extent of the word).
 
>	A lab that attacked and/or bit would be forever suspect in my mind.
>I wouldn't trust it again. I don't have my dogs for protection animals and
>therefore don't expect them to protect me.  If I wanted a protection dog, I
>would get a german shepherd or a doberman.
 
I still fail to see the difference between your expectations of
a Lab and a GSD/Dobe.  Why is protective behavior ok for one, but
not the other?
 
 
> None of this is meant to condemn the remarks of *anyone* on the
>list.  I can appreciate Chris's desire to feel protected in his home but
>would suggest that he count on the GSD rather than the Lab for that.
 
Actually, I count on them both.  But since my GSD is 11 years old (and
not in the best of health), I really wouldn't expect him to do a very
good job.
 
 
>These
>are my OPINIONS, folks, and are not meant to be the Scripture according to
>Liza.  Take them or leave them, but please respect them for what they
>are--educated opinions.
 
I do.  Really!    ;-)  Of course, I should probably say the same for
what I write.....
 
 
      ---------------------------------------------------------
Chris Barnes            |     Sonny's Yellar Dawg Dixie SH
cbarnes@tamvm1.tamu.edu |              x
(409) 846-3273 (home)   |  HR Millercreek's Cash Payoff MH
(409) 845-4437 (work)   |       (finished MH title at 1992 Nat'l Master)
                        |
Bryan-College Station   |  7 Hunting Test Titles (1 is a national title)
    Retriever Club      | 32 Field Trial Titles  (8 are national titles)
                        |  6 Confirmation Titles
                        |
                        |  These guys should be born today !