HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Tue, 25 Aug 1992 11:37:22 MST
From:         Doyle Burke <BURKE@MC.BITNET>
Subject:      NeXT Computers

NeXT computers do allow voice messages, but that function requires significant
memory.

Those who wish to correspond with NeXT users my address these two faculty at
Mesa Community College:

        Richard Felnagle        Felnagle@MC
        Gwen Argersinger        Argersinger@MC

Richard worked with a programmer this past summer to develop a grading program
on the NeXT utilizing the keyboard to enter icons in the margin of a student's
paper.  Students click on the icon to get a message about some element within
the line of text.

The program allows a faculty member to use boilerplate text or to write
individual comments about a student's paper.

Doyle Burke
Mesa Community College
Burke@MC
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Date:         Thu, 3 Sep 1992 14:37:00 EST
From:         BURT@BRANDEIS.BITNET
Subject:      RE: Ice T and Murphy Brown

I thought John S's question was the first half of a riddle. What's the
answer?
John B
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Date:         Sun, 23 Aug 1992 14:53:51 --500
From:         "David E. Schwalm" <IACDES@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Kill Clarissa

 *** Reply to note of 08/22/92 15:48
 Hey, let's not be so hasty to kill Clarissa. It's a good read. In my grad
 school days, when I apparently had too much time on my hands, I became curious
 about what the frequently read abridgements of Clarissa left out. This
 curiosity led to a parallel reading of the abridgements with the original. In
 this kind of reading, one truly comes to appreciate what 18th century readers
 saw in the original text. What a way to learn! Anyway, this is part of that
 quickly receding past. Never mind. (The fact that the past is quickly
 receding--apparently not for repulicans--does not invalidate Hirsch's main
 point. You have to know stuff in order to communicate.)

 -- David E. Schwalm, Assoc. Provost for Academic Programs
 ___Arizona State University West
 ___4701 West Thunderbird Rd.
 ___Phoenix, AZ 85069-7100___(602) 543-4500
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Date:         Wed, 26 Aug 1992 21:13:00 CDT
From:         Fred Kemp <YKFOK@TTACS.BITNET>
Subject:      expressivist angst

Tom, your creative writer needs to get in e-contact with Don Byrd
and some of those wild and crazy creative writers in Steve
North/Lil Brannon/Cy Knaubloch/Ted Jennings land called SUNY
Albany.  I did a Daedalus thing there a year ago and was pretty
sharply resisted by the expressivists, and for all the usual
creative writing reasons rejecting computers, machines,
raping-of-the-self, and so forth.  Once I left town the creative
writers took over Interchange and started their own thing (they
called it the "Daed-heads") one night a week, and started
complaining to me that Interchange couldn't handle two-hour
ENFI sessions!  Oh the beautiful BS those folks must have
produced!  The technology, dear Horatio, is not the fault.  Only
lack of human imagination.  Fred Kemp, TTU
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Date:         Fri, 28 Aug 1992 13:11:29 --500
From:         "David E. Schwalm" <IACDES@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: literacy, orality, & NeXT

 *** Reply to note of 08/28/92 09:45
 Wes, have you ever had one of your own papers responded to via a talking
 computer program (or a non-talking computer commenting program)? Have you ever
 tried to edit or revise your own work in response to this kind of feedback? I
 don't want to sound like I just crawled out of a cave or anything, but this
 kind of responding program sounds like it combines some of the worst features
 of two responding strategies that didn't work very well in their low tech
 forms. There is no research support for writing extensive comments on
 students' papers as a means of improving their writing (probably worse if the
 comments are generic boilerplate). Writing comments electronically may or may
 not be easier for the instructor; how are they an improvement over hand
 written comments for students (keeping in mind the problems of reading on the
 screen, etc.). The virtues of oral comments on papers lie in the interactive
 nature of discussion, the possibility for both parties in the discussion to
 reach clarity through interaction. The oral comments on the computer program
 are monologic. Do I want to invest in a $5000 NeXT so that I can respond to
 papers as ineffectively in a high tech environment as I did in a low tech
 environment? Where's the progress in that (except for Steven Jobs' bank
 account)? The one thing I like about computer conferencing programs (ala ENFI,
 Daedalus, etc.) is that they allow us to do something inside and outside of
 the classroom that we simple couldn't do before. That's where technology makes
 education better.

 -- David E. Schwalm, Assoc. Provost for Academic Programs
 ___Arizona State University West
 ___4701 West Thunderbird Rd.
 ___Phoenix, AZ 85069-7100___(602) 543-4500
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Date:         Wed, 2 Sep 1992 21:40:54 -0400
From:         ENGMYLES@UBVMS.BITNET
Subject:      Re: essential writing books

Richard Lanham's _Revising Prose_   is the best book I know to help
people teach themselves how to write. You might also copy out the parts
of Franklin's Autobiography in whihc he describes how he taught himself
to write.  And Poe's review of Twice--Told Tales has a wonderful paragraph
on how to order every word so it is directed at the writer's intent, and
how there can be only one.
I'll be happy to see what other people suggest.
Myles
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Date:         Wed, 2 Sep 1992 21:11:00 EDT
From:         "Composition Digest (Robert Royar,
              Moderator)" <R0MILL01@ULKYVX.BITNET>
Subject:      (Fwd: *C&CD*) Goodman Brown and the strict "Catholics" (2)

$undigest -s="Goodman Brown and the strict ""Catholics"" (2)" [.new_news]cmpd625
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Date:         Tue, 01 Sep 1992 21:56:38 EDT
From:         IN%"RobertRoyar@Delphi.com" Robert Royar (C&CD Moderator)
Message-Id:   <1992Sep01.215638.1.Grendel.Lair@Cratylus>
Subject:      Goodman Brown and the strict "Catholics" (2)
Reply-to:     IN%"R0MILL01@ULKYVX.LOUISVILLE.EDU"  C&CD
Organization: Cratylus Educational Software

Thomas Reber  <REBER@CANISIUS.BITNET> in message
<01GOA4T6J1U8GC3DBT@ulkyvx.bitnet> says

>  There's a story Harry Truman once told in a speech about an
>  interesting survey someone conducted in a town (I think it may have
>  been in Wisconsin).  The residents of the town were shown some
>  excerpts of the "Manifesto of the Communist Party," which they
>  identified as parts of the U.S. Constitution.  Interesting.

It's also interesting how much of the _Laws_ could be mistaken as part of "our"
Constitution, while at the same time reading the laws gives one a real sense
that the Platonic republic (not that of the dialogue by that name) finally came
into being in the Union of Soveriegn Socialist Republics (CCCP).

>  I was astounded this past spring that two students in my "Short
>  Fiction" courses said that Young Goodman Brown's problem was that he
>  was a victim of the overly strict Catholic Church.

While this is astounding, it's also rather insightful of the students to make
the connection between the pre-reformation Church's strictness toward the
northern Burghers (lending rates, mercantile practices, trade routes and
tariffs) compared to the less strict attitude toward the Venetians and
Milanese. Undoubtedly these attitudes coupled with the interests of the German
princes for "independence" fostered the strength of the Reformation (and
certainly led to the protection of Luther).  The same "rebellion" against the
conservative church can be seen in the later protestant movements in
England--eventually leading to the rise of the Puritan[ists] who were rebelling
againgst the powerful protestan equivalents to the Catholic Church.  Were it
not for the need of this rebellion and for the partition of the Southern New
World by the Pope between Portugal and Spain, there would likely not have been
a Goodman Brown and his Angst to inhabit Massachesetts.

Yes, that student demonstrates a real gasp at history *;^o

 -- Robert Royar (RobertRoyar@Delphi.com) New York Institute of Technology
    "The average voter doesn't view himself as articulate, so I
    think they can understand the President."
                                                  -- Bob Teeter
                                                     Bush Campaign Manager

------------------------------
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Date:         Sun, 30 Aug 1992 13:37:23 --500
From:         "David E. Schwalm" <IACDES@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: comments

 *** Reply to note of 08/29/92 13:13
 Myles, you may just be on to something.

 -- David E. Schwalm, Assoc. Provost for Academic Programs
 ___Arizona State University West
 ___4701 West Thunderbird Rd.
 ___Phoenix, AZ 85069-7100___(602) 543-4500
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Date:         Fri, 4 Sep 1992 15:03:00 EDT
From:         BUNTINGT@SNYCORVA.BITNET
Subject:      joining list

Would you please enter my name in your list service concerning "computers & writ
ing"
My post office address is :
kDr. Thomas Bunting
Dept of English
SUNY Cortland
Cortland NY 13045
My department telephone is : 607-753-4307
Thanks!
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Date:         Tue, 1 Sep 1992 04:29:00 EDT
From:         "Composition Digest (Robert Royar,
              Moderator)" <R0MILL01@ULKYVX.BITNET>
Subject:      (Fwd: *C&CD*) RE: (Fwd: *C&CD*) Comments on good and great papers
              (4) (*COMP.COMP*) (12)

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P*) (12)" [.new_news]cmpd6250.mss

Date: 31 Aug 92 15:29:10 GMT
From: agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!csa3.lbl.gov!jtchew@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU
Message-id: <25885@dog.ee.lbl.gov>
Subject: RE: (Fwd: *C&CD*) Comments on good and great papers (4) (*COMP.COMP*) (
12)
Reply-to: comp.edu.composition <compos01%ulkyvx.bitnet@ucbvax.Berkeley.edu>

>I imagine most of you on this list were good writers in college.
>Didn't you value what your teachers had to say about your papers?

Not only do I remember most of the comments to this day, I can
(being blessed or cursed with that kind of memory) even visualize
them on the papers.  Many of the comments stung, but mostly the
sting was well deserved:  "AWK -- self-conscious ref to own paper."
Or "One of these days your sense of humor is going to turn to ashes
in your mouth" (I'd grown accustomed to the flavor of cinders long
before, but the point was valid nonetheless).  These were lessons
I could have learned elsewhere, but red ink in the margin taught
them firmly, and assured that I learned them before being inflicted
upon the world as a "writer."

The occasional "Good!" (with "Good!" passage underlined) or "Well
argued" proved helpful and memorable as well.

These classes (those of two professors in particular) played a major
role in shaping my writing style, which hitherto had been given its
overall form by a prodigally bookish childhood but had never been
chiseled by close reading and critique. (Just forget the American public
schools, okay?  They were happy if I didn't talk in class and requested
permission before going to the bathroom.  We're talking college here.)
Meanwhile, classes in which I got an easy, uncommented A came and went.

--Joe "Today will be the first day of what's left of your life" Chew

*************************************
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Date:         Tue, 25 Aug 1992 15:06:05 CDT
From:         Wes Chapman <WESCHAP@VMD.CSO.UIUC.EDU>
Subject:      Re: F2F
              24 Aug 1992 21:20:31 -0400 from <irwin@CARR.YORKU.CA>

Speaking of voice input, the latest editions of PREPeditor, a program for res-
ponding electronically to student papers, supports voice comments.  There are
serious practical limitations to how much audio you can put in a paper comment,
given the massive amounts of disk space that digitized audio requires, but
even so there are moments when it would be useful.  If anyone is interested I
will make a note to post my reactions to this innovation after I've used the
program this semester.
Wes Chapman
Illinois Wesleyan University
weschap@uiucvmd
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Date:         Tue, 1 Sep 1992 14:07:49 -0500
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From:         TWBATSON@GALLUA.BITNET
Subject:      "What is ENFI?"

to John Edlund and others puzzled by what ENFI is:  ENFI is a name we
use for teaching writing in a networked lab, using a program which
supports realtime group interaction.  Some people use the term "interchange,"
or other terms to describe this same process.  Many people use computer
labs to teach writing; ENFI is different in that the group writes in
near realtime, which leads to lots of different collaborational strategies,
as you can well imagine.

ENFI was coined in 1985 and has never been formally associated with any
one software package, so it is a generic term.  It stands for Electronic
Networks for Interaction, but most people forget that and just use
"ENFI."

Trent
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Date:         Wed, 26 Aug 1992 05:10:00 EDT
From:         "Composition Digest (Robert Royar,
              Moderator)" <R0MILL01@ULKYVX.BITNET>
Subject:      (Fwd: *C&CD*) Re: Computers under glass (1536 chars) (1)

Date:          Tue, 25 Aug 1992 11:24:52 EDT
From:          IN%"RobertRoyar@Delphi.com" Dan Quigley (dquigley)
Message-Id:    <1992Aug25.112452.1.Grendel.Lair@Cratylus>
Subject:       Re: Computers under glass (1536 chars) (1)
Organization:  Department of English, New York Institute of Technology
Local-Group:   composition.dig/1.c&c.replies #7
Reply-to:      "Computers and Composition Digest" <R0MILL01@ULKYVX.BITNET>

In response to the comments about putting computers in computer labs under
plexi glass topped desks, NYIT just went in the other direction after four
years of problems with the under desk furniture.  First, it made reaching the
computers rather difficult for the students AND the tech staff, particularly if
something went wrong.  The computers were suspended under the desk from a metal
bracket and we had a few occaisions of computers "crashing"--literally.  Also,
the computers seemed to pick up considerable dust from being so close to the
shuffling feet of students.  The plexi-glass desk tops also made seeing the
screen difficult when the overhead lights were on.  The problem went away if we
shut off the lights, but that led to a greater degree of "student-dozing" than
usuall.

Finally, and this last point has more to do, I think, with the approach Tech
took to introducing computers into writing classes, putting the computers under
the desks gave an all too ready excuse for faculty to ignore them.  All the
faculty were scheduled to teach writing classes one day a week in the lab,
whether they liked the idea or not.  But with the computers out of the way,
teachers could easily ignore the computers, and so we had a real discrepency in
computer use in writing classes.  As I said, I'm not sure I agree with the
twisted arm approach to introducing computers into the writing curriculum, but
the ease with which the computer classroom can become a regular classroom is
something to be considered.

Quig


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Date:         Mon, 31 Aug 1992 16:51:00 EST
From:         "Rhoda Carroll, Vermont College,
              Montpelier" <RHODA%MUNIN@NORWICH.BITNET>
Subject:      MBTI, marginalia, and Becky

Dear Becky Rickley -- what did your college find when s/he looked at
the relationship between MBTI score and student response to our margin
commentaries????  Perhaps we can exchange some information here. I've
been trying to use the MBTI as another way into the dialogue about
writing; it's not as threatening as all those red marks.

Rhoda Carroll
Rhoda@Norwich.Bitnet
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Date:         Mon, 31 Aug 1992 23:50:19 CDT
From:         "Michael S. Hart" <HART@VMD.CSO.UIUC.EDU>
Subject:      Project Gutenberg Newsletter

We need a Shakespeare fan who will test samples of our various etext
editions against print editions for copyright information to prove a
text is Public Domain (or they are in the Public Domain).

All you have to do is send us xeroxes of the copyright and title.


=====================================================

Thank you for your interest,

Michael S. Hart, Professor of Electronic Text
Executive Director of Project Gutenberg Etext
Illinois Benedictine College, Lisle, IL 60532
No official connection to U of Illinois--UIUC
hart @uiucvmd.bitnet or hart@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu
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Date:         Fri, 4 Sep 1992 11:07:57 CDT
From:         Don Langham <DLANGHAM@ENGLISH.AS.UA.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Ice T and Murphy Brown

> Date:          Fri, 4 Sep 1992 08:54:32 --500

> Don langham: I don't understand your discussion of differing responses to
> Murphy Brown and Ice T as an explanation of why it would be OK for us to teach
> Murphy Brown in a university classroom but not OK to teach Ice T.
>
> John Slatin
> UT Austin
>

That's because I din't intend it as an explantion of why it would be
OK to do this.  As ususal, I took the question out of context (by
accident, this time), for it wasn't until later that I read the
original message to which you were referring, nor did you include
the contextualizing reference when you asked the question.  Sorry
about the confusion.  BTW, if anything, Murphy and Ice T are equally
valid subjects of inquiry for the university classroom.  I think it
might be productive to compare and contrast the conservative reaction
to Ice T's (and Sister Soulja's) violent lyrics and to Murphy's
disrepect for fathers (see Dan Quayle).

--Don Langham
  University of Alabama
  English Computer Lab
  DLangham@English.as.ua.edu
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Date:         Wed, 2 Sep 1992 12:46:01 --500
From:         "David E. Schwalm" <IACDES@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: (Fwd: *C&CD*) Transferring real life to Lit classes (7)

 *** Reply to note of 09/02/92 07:00
 Jim, what arethe things that really matter that we over 30's have lost touch
 with? Gee, I thought I was developing a better sense of what really matters!

 -- David E. Schwalm, Assoc. Provost for Academic Programs
 ___Arizona State University West
 ___4701 West Thunderbird Rd.
 ___Phoenix, AZ 85069-7100___(602) 543-4500
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Date:         Thu, 3 Sep 1992 05:03:02 HST
From:         James Shimabukuro <JAMESS@UHUNIX.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: (Fwd: *C&CD*) Transferring real life to Lit classes (7)

David, I can only guess at the things that really matter to our younger
students -- getting close to the big five-O myself.  I do know that they
don't ask the questions I did in the 1960s and '70s.  Their values seem to be
different.  The world they're entering isn't the same one I entered.  It's
infinitely faster, in every way.  Their concerns seem to be short-term, but
it's probably because the rate of change doesn't allow for meaningful
predictions.  They're entering into relationships at a time when the curve
for divorces continues to rise, when AIDS is rampant, and when the American
family has been all but pronounced dead.

I do know that I, as a member of the over-30 (or should we add a decade to
that?), don't face the same problems, or if I do, I do so  from a perspective
that's very different.  For one thing, I'm far from wealthy, but I have a
secure job, which I enjoy, that keeps me and my family off the streets.  The
economic picture is gloomy for all of us, but how much more for my students?

I realize I'm emphasizing the practical, and not the liberal or humanistic,
but the arithmetic of dollars must be prominent in my students' minds.  The
times are different, and I'm not sure if what and how I teach have kept up.

Jim Shimabukuro
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Date:         Fri, 4 Sep 1992 07:53:02 -0500
From:         "Gail E. Hawisher" <hawisher@UIUC.EDU>
Subject:      WAC-L (Writing Across the Curriculum)

Megabunners, Whoppers, and Purtopoiers:

Now that the summer seems more over than most of us would like, I'm
reposting the announcement of WAC-L.  We'd be delighted if you would join
us on this new discussion list. Please also forward the announcement to
other colleagues.  Here's the message I sent last June:

We are pleased to announce that a previously local list at the University
of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign, is now part the international electronic
community. WAC-L, a list devoted to issues in writing across the
curriculum, can be joined by sending the following one-line message to
listserv@uiucvmd.bitnet

SUBSCRIBE WAC-L Your Name

If you have any problems joining, please either send me or Mary Hocks
(mhocks@uiuc.edu) a message, and we'll try to help you out.  Please also
forward this message to other lists whose members have an interest in WAC
issues--I know, for example, that people on the Writing Center List might
be interested in joining.

We look forward to your participation! (I apologize to those of you who
will receive this message three times!)

Gail
________________
Gail E. Hawisher
Department of English
University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign
hawisher@uiuc.edu and 217-333-2989
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