HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,alt.politics.correct,alt.president.clinton,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Affirmative action is dead
From: mhorning@zeus.calpoly.edu (Mark E. Horning (Captain Neutrino))
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1993 19:13:09 GMT
Organization: California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo

gpriores@oracle.com (gordon prioreschi) states
>In article <1h53p2INNqpq@spim.mti.sgi.com> mpolen@suntory.mti.sgi.com (Mike Polen) writes:
>>Actually, South Africa is a precedent for a society which bases everything
>>on protecting the power of a racial minority.  AA will be needed to protect
>>whites by the year 2010.
>
>The underlying assumption here is, of course, that AA is
>"automatically" needed to protect every minority group.
>
>Not to mention that I will bet you dollars to donuts that the moment
>somebody advocates affirmative action to protect _whites_ is the
>moment we hear the first anti-AA sentiments from certain segments of
>the liberal camp.
>
>                                 Cordially,
>
Interesting theory. How many liberals realise that the University of
california at Berkely has an affermative action program for whites.
Although they disguised it by calling it AA for rural citizens.
Apparently too many asians were getting accepted and ruining the
universitys quoatas.

>                                      -g

Mark E. Horning, Physics 	A penny saved is a congressional oversite.	
mhorning@pan.calpoly.edu	Don't steal, the IRS hates competition.

If you can't love the constitution, at least hate the government.

Newsgroups: alt.discrimination
From: hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin)
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: Discrimination against whites is rampant
Date: 4 Jan 93 15:12:35 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Purdue University Statistics Department

In article <2JAN199314495515@zeus.tamu.edu> cll5685@zeus.tamu.edu (LARUE, CHARLES L.) writes:
>You know, a funny thing occured to me as I watched the NFL playoffs today. 
>Whites are not represented fairly among NFL players.  In the game I watched,
>over 50% of the players were black.  Therefore, discrimination must be going
>on.  I mean, surely the white players are as good as the black players.  If
>they aren't, then we must rectify this problem.  I suggest athletic
>scholarships for whites only, as they may not have had the same opportunities
>as their black counterparts.  Of course, the cry is usually "More blacks in
>management and coaching", but along with this must come less blacks as players. 
>I mean fair is fair isn't it.  I usually hear that the proportion of blacks in
>a given job should at least reflect their percentage of the population.  I must
>say that if it is a greater percentage than this then discrimination against
>whites is occurring.

So you think that football has an overrepresentation of blacks?  I suggest 
that one look at college and professional basketball.

Also, I suggest a look at track teams.  We find the black runners running
the short races, and the white ones the long races.  

>Is this example a little ridiculous?  Yes, but it is very analogous to what we
>hear anytime blacks are underrepresented in any job.  I have been reading posts
>from this group for a while and some of things I read are ridiculous. 

It sure is.  To use my last example, I cannot imagine why a track coach
would assign blacks to sprints and whites to distance races; even on the
international scene, the distance-running blacks are almost entirely of
East African descent, and the sprinters West African.
-- 
Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399
Phone: (317)494-6054
hrubin@snap.stat.purdue.edu (Internet, bitnet)  
{purdue,pur-ee}!snap.stat!hrubin(UUCP)
Xref: sparky alt.discrimination:5489 talk.politics.misc:66141
From: Terry.Parks@launchpad.unc.edu (Terry Parks)
Subject: Re: Institutional racism in education
Organization: UNC Office of Information Technology
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 02:01:41 GMT

>I have written to you several times asking why you insist on referring to
>people as "blak" rather than "black".

This is incorrect. What is your point?

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,soc.culture.african.american,misc.education
From: johnhall@microsoft.com (John Hall)
Subject: Re: Institutional racism in education
Date: 11 Jan 93 16:52:43 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation
Distribution: usa

In article Terry.Parks@launchpad.unc.edu (Terry Parks) writes:
| You're trying to convince us that a roulette wheel is more likely to
| land on 13 than on 7 since there are more two-digit numbers on the
| wheel than one-digit numbers. 

That was never the arguement Terry.  The correct analogy to a 
(fair) roulette wheel is: Since their are more two-digit numbers on 
a wheel than one-digit numbers, the odds of the ball landing on a 
two digit number exceed the odds that it will land on a single 
digit number.  

Try it, just go back to the original statement with "s/white/2digit/" 
and "s/black/1digit/".  That might make it obvious even to you.

| That your faulty logic may often be well-received
| by your fellow simple-mined racists does not magically make it valid.

You should probably avoid such remarks, Terry.  They only make you 
look more foolish when you are wrong, and should you ever be right
you won't need them.



-- 
-------------------------
My comments are my own.  They are independent and unrelated to the
views of my company , relatives or elected representatives.

Xref: sparky alt.discrimination:5510 talk.politics.misc:66391
From: locker@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Jon Locker)
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: East St. Louis/Belleville
Date: 12 Jan 93 17:21:53 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

In article <93011.073354KRB104@psuvm.psu.edu> <KRB104@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>There were anectodal stories from Blacks who were stopped in Bell. but there
>was some empirical evidence.   A reporter found that for a group of four
>officers, 75% of their traffic citations were to Black motorists, and most of
>them were for non-moving violations (that is important because that would indi-
>cate that they were stopped for no probable cause).  The police chief denied
>that there was any conspiracy against Blacks in one sentence and in the next
>said that it would be probable cause to stop two Black males in a car in the
>area, and that his people applaud such actions (which they did).

What surprised me was that 60 Mins. did not give the full story.  About 3
years ago, in Florissant, MO (another St. Louis suburb), there was a
similar situation.  As I recall, an agency of the federal government was
brought in to investigate charges that the Florissant cops were harassing
blacks that drove through that town.  Does anyone else remember this?
Anyway, this behavior by the Belleville PD is quite common around the
entire St. Louis area.  
--
Jon Locker
U. of Illinois
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,soc.culture.african.american,misc.education
From: Terry.Parks@launchpad.unc.edu (Terry Parks)
Subject: Re: Institutional racism in education
Organization: UNC Office of Information Technology
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 22:32:27 GMT

>Since a labor pool composed soley of
>whites and blacks will be about 85% white, a white will most likely
>be selected for the job if the white population qualified for the
>job is more than 15% of the proportion of the black population so
>qualified.  [The black population would need to be more than 7 times
>as likely to be qualified for the odds to swing their way.]

This concept is still incorrect. If there is no racial bias employed,
by definition a Caucasian is not more likely to hired than a Blak.
This is independent of whether a population of 10 or 10,000,000 is
considered or whether is it comprised of 90% Caucasians or 90% Blaks.
You're trying to convince us that a roulette wheel is more likely to
land on 13 than on 7 since there are more two-digit numbers on the
wheel than one-digit numbers. That your faulty logic may often be well-received
by your fellow simple-mined racists does not magically make it valid.


>Have you noticed that you get 10 times the responses to a post of yours
>as Ted Frank, H Rubin, Jason, or I do?  It is because you are such
>an easy mark.

Ya, you're right, the Sun does orbit around the Earth, the planet is flat,
Blaks are inferior, Jews are a scourge, and all other beliefs
are correct if popular. Anyways, you'd think that with all these posts
someone could point out the mythical AA program which isn't biased
against Caucasians, the mythical Caucasians-only scholarship, or the
Society of Caucasian Engineers as part of the lame attempt to justify
the existence of AA, Blak-only scholarships, Blak professional organizations,
etc., etc., etc.

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination
From: johnhall@microsoft.com (John Hall)
Subject: Re: Discrimination against whites is rampant
Date: 07 Jan 93 20:37:37 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation
Distribution: usa

In article guillory@crhc.uiuc.edu (Stanford Guillory) writes:
| I don't see alot of black scientists, engineers, or CEOs either. 

Not to long ago you accused me of being a complete idiot for,
essentially, saying the same thing.  [The racial distribution
for every major is not equal.]

As far as black CEO's, true.  But I just invested in one such
company, and my [racist] father just went to work for another
one.

Not to get in the way of your discussion with Mr. Larue, of course.


-- 
-------------------------
My comments are my own.  They are independent and unrelated to the
views of my company , relatives or elected representatives.
From: guillory@crhc.uiuc.edu (Stanford Guillory)
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: Discrimination against whites is rampant
Date: 5 Jan 1993 12:07:14 -0600
Organization: Center for Reliable and High-Performance Computing, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: debussy.crhc.uiuc.edu

cll5685@zeus.tamu.edu (LARUE, CHARLES L.) writes:

>How can you say that it is ludicrous?  There is a disproportionate number of
>blacks in sports.  

Really?! How many black professional tennis players are there? Golfers? 
Hockey players? Soccer players? Rowers? Skiiers? Ice skaters? Power lifters?
Lacrosse players? 

The fact is that there is only one sport in which blacks are predominant, pro
basketball. In the two most lucrative sports, the individual sports of tennis
and golf, blacks are conspicuously absent.

If you are going to make a broad, sweeping generalization such as the one above,
please do not "cook" the data to suit your purpose. Include all sports. Professional
basketball players make up only a tiny fraction of the professional athletes in 
this country.



Stanford S. Guillory
guillory@crhc.uiuc.edu

Newsgroups: alt.discrimination
From: kd1hz@anomaly.sbs.com (Michael P. Deignan)
Subject: Re: alt.discrimination = alt.caucasian whining
Organization: Small Business Systems, Incorporated, Smithfield, RI 02917
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1993 11:46:50 GMT

dowdy@tochtli.biochem.nwu.edu (Dowdy Jackson) writes:

>The fact is that whites are STILL
>discriminating against blacks. 

...and blacks still discriminate against whites. 


>    I really don't care what you think because it won't change the fact that
>whites hate blacks and blacks hate whites because of the horrid way in
>which they are treated by whites.

People in life are constantly treated poorly by others, based on some
physical characteristic. Too short, too fat, too ugly. Black/white is
merely another physical characteristic which individuals use to group
and classify.

As long as you demand special treatment because of your physical
characteristic, then you will build more resentment from other groups,
just as the ugly person who demanded special 'rights' simply because
s/he was too ugly to get a date, or the fat person constantly demanded
and received special treatment simply because s/he is far.


>Fact is that I, as an African American
>will continue to help my people attain their goals while you as a Caucasian
>American will do what you can to help your people hold onto whatever they stole
>in the past.

Funny, those doing the stealing around here seem to be black moreso than
white, at least according to law enforcement records. Is that because blacks
think us whities had their turn stealing and now should get equal rights?


>The only solution is that whites must learn to
>share. This is something that you should have learned in kindergarden but
>I guess most of you were absent that day. 

Most whites I know don't care if their co-workers/acquaintance's skin is
black, white or orange. It simply gets exhausting hearing the same cries
of RACISM! RACISM! every time a black doesn't get hired for some job.
While there should, statistically be 14% black representation in every
job category, statistics doesn't take into account socioeconomical factors
such as schooling or job experience.

Until blacks can learn to be judged on their own merit against similar
white competitors with receiving "special" treatment simply for their
skin color, I'm afraid that they will also build resentment and
discrimination from others. You cannot legislate away people's
discriminatory tendencies.

MD

MD
-- 
--  Michael P. Deignan                      / Sex is hereditary. If your 
--  Domain: mpd@anomaly.sbs.com            /  parents never had it, chances 
-- AT&TNet: +1 401 273 4669               /   are you won't either...
-- Telebit: +1 401 455 0347              /
Xref: sparky alt.discrimination:5529 talk.politics.misc:66701
From: johnhall@microsoft.com (John Hall)
Subject: Re: Institutional racism in education
Date: 06 Jan 93 23:53:30 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation
Distribution: usa

In article Terry.Parks@launchpad.unc.edu (Terry Parks) writes:
| >For any one position, a white is more likely to be hired.
| 
| Could you name any of these mythical positions which give racial 
| preference to Caucasians? 

Since whites outnumber blacks by 7 to 1, absolutely no 'racial
preference' is required for the original statement to be true.

Terry, your presence on these forums strengthens all arguements
for AA by illustrating just how irrational and bigoted some
whites can be.

-- 
-------------------------
My comments are my own.  They are independent and unrelated to the
views of my company , relatives or elected representatives.

Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,talk.politics.misc
From: brian@quake.sylmar.ca.us (Brian K. Yoder)
Subject: Re: Institutional racism in education
Organization: Quake Public Access
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 02:55:49 GMT

Terry,

I have written to you several times asking why you insist on referring to
people as "blak" rather than "black".  You responded by say that you didn't
do that.  Here you are doing it again!  Is this just a spelling problem, or
are you trying to be insulting or something?

If you still deny you are doing this, please explain this...

In article <1993Jan6.021152.22432@samba.oit.unc.edu> Terry.Parks@launchpad.unc.edu (Terry Parks) writes:
>>>I thought the party line was that whites are 3 to 5 times more likely to
>>>be hired than blacks. It would better serve the pro-racism forces to
>>>get their propaganda in sync.

>>Get your common sense "in sync."  The two statements aren't mutually
>>exclusive.  For any one position, a white is more likely to be hired.

>Could you name any of these mythical positions which give racial preference
>to Caucasians? I hear about their existence all the time but no one
>can ever point one out. I often do hear about racial preferences being
>given but always against Caucasians.

>>For any one worker, a black is more likely to be *recently* hired.

>>Take the example of a company that didn't hire any blacks until 1970,
>>and then started hiring blacks that year, but is still less likely to
>>hire a black than a white.  If it lays off workers by seniority, blacks
>>are more likely to be laid off than whites, even though whites are
>>more likely to be hired than blacks. 

>Let's see now, Company A has a 1970 workforce of 100 Caucasians and for
>each succeeding year hires 7 Caucasians and 1 Blak. In 1993, this
                                               ^^^^
>workforce of 284 is reduced by 24. In this layoff based on seniority,
>21 Caucasians and 3 Blaks are laid off. Seven times as many Caucasians
                     ^^^^^
>were laid off than Blaks.
                    ^^^^^

>Stick to the usual pro-racism red herrings, few people will buy this
>notion that Blaks are never getting hired and yet always getting laid
             ^^^^^
>off (from jobs they don't have because they are never hired).



Newsgroups: alt.discrimination
From: wadeh@pell4l23.alleg.edu (Harry Wade)
Subject: re:alt. dicrimination
Organization: Allegheny College
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 04:15:22 GMT

	I was just looking through newsgazzer and  I saw  your comments.   
I think that most people in your postion are not willing to open their  
eyes and see the world from different perspectives.  I believe that many  
African-American and other minorities of the US have been forced to live  
their lives looking and defining their lives the white american standards.    
With the approaching years Black are reaching a status that allows them to  
define themselves.  They can dictate their own futures,  reaching a point  
where they can discriminate( to coin a word).  What is really ironic about  
the comments are they selfish and racist by nature.  How can a person who  
knows not only american history but world history see that those who have  
been in control of the dominate society are starting to face an evil they  
created.  No white person today ever owned a slave but Americans still  
live  with the legacy of slavery and nobody white nor black can deny it.   
White americans should be happy that African-americans are reaching a  
level of self sufficiency creating thier own institution is great!    
Whites have theirs,  Jews,  Asians you name it.   I believe that white  
americans are afraid of reaping what they sowed.
	I believe that many white males are cocky for one reason their  
skin color,  maybe you are not.  But think back in your past  I am sure  
you can find a friend, a uncle, or a grandfather who believe he was better  
than a person of color  But hey life goes on and  I am telling you seth  
that there are some major changes in the ethos of the young  
African-American communities.  Dont be fooled by the hoopla of all the  
gangs and rap riots because African-Americans are reaching a stage "where  
consciosless POWER meets POWERLESS concsious.  Well I have to go i never  
ment to write so much and please forgive all of my typos.  I am only a  
sophmore and i never took typing.  
									 
	Harry
PS  Why do the people who are so against AA assume they own the job  
already.  Or that they are always more qualified than the person who  
recieved the position

Newsgroups: alt.discrimination
From: Terry.Parks@launchpad.unc.edu (Terry Parks)
Subject: Re: alt.discrimination = the truth exposed (and racists feel the heat)
Organization: UNC Office of Information Technology
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 01:33:28 GMT

>>>As the mythology goes, in order to discriminate
>>>one has to have control over something.  What do Blacks control enough to
>>>discriminate?  You are going to have to give specifics.

>>Does the name Spike Lee ring a bell?  When he tells a studio that only
>>a black publicist can work on his film, is that racial discrimination?
>>When he tells a magazine that only a black reporter can interview him,
>>is that discrimination?

>As I said before, I think that Spike Lee does discriminate.  And how is he
>able to do that?  Because he does have some power over who he can hire and
>fire.  He is one of the few Black people with such power.

Well what is your quota? I assume it is the typical one more than the number
of examples given.

>Now we all can name more than a hand full of white people who discriminate

Not me, how about you list a hand full for us.


>OK, you named one

On behalf of the net, I accept your admission that your claim that Blaks
don't discriminate is just more racist bullshit.


>     That is great!  Let's have a level playing field starting now!  We will
>ignore the fact that white people haven't allowed us to get proper education
>and haven't been hiring us.

Easy to do since this is still more racist bullshit.

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,soc.culture.african.american,misc.education
From: hillyard@msc.cornell.edu
Subject: Re: LARUE is not a racist!    (my apology)
Originator: hillyard@tiger.msc.cornell.edu
Reply-To: hillyard@msc.cornell.edu
Organization: Cornell-Materials-Science-Center
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 22:19:46 GMT

From article <C0pFIz.2Eo@cs.dal.ca>, by kumar@ug.cs.dal.ca (kumar yelubandi):
[...]
> 		Basketball, on the other hand, relies solely on the 
> 	recruitment process of colleges, ie. only those that are talented 
> 	and lucky enough to be spotted by scouts are admitted, and unlike 
> 	the tremendous variation seen in the price range of tennis equipment
> 	 - ie. the rich buy quality racquets and the poor, less than 
> 	adequate ones -  the price variation of basketballs (not that 
> 	great to begin with) does not determine if one player is better 
> 	than another.  I could go on, but...you get the drift. 

Question.  If a $200 racket is so out of bounds for those in the inner city
who love tennis, then why is there such a big market there for $100 
basketball shoes?  (Noting that a racket is going to last longer than
shoes are, so you'll probably end up spending less on rackets in long run.)

SEH
From: dowdy@tochtli.biochem.nwu.edu (Dowdy Jackson)
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: alt.discrimination = alt.caucasian
Date: 13 Jan 93 01:08:17 GMT
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois

In article <1993Jan11.214430.13494@bsu-ucs> 00cmmiller@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu writes:
>dowdy jackson (i think) writes:
>
>"I really don't care what you think because it won't change the fact
>                                                                ^^^^
>that whites hate blacks and blacks hate whites because of the horrid
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>way in which they are treated by whites"
>
>
>how dare you make such a blanket generalization!!!  how the hell
>can you say how *I* feel about blacks and how *I* treat blacks?!!
>what a ridiculous statement.  so you hate me (even though you have
>never met me and you don't know the first thing about me) because
>i'm white?  i thought one of the major goals of civil rights was
>to end racism and hatred!  what do you think *you're* doing?!!
>you're pre-judging me based on my skin color.  if i hadn't told
>you i was white, if i had replied favorably to you, you would have
>had no idea that i was white.  what the hell is your problem?!!!!

Oh!!!! Calm down!!! Yes these are generalizations but for the most
part they hold true. I know YOU might say that you don't hate
blacks but the actions of many whites don't seem to be the same as
what they say. I don't hate you because you are white. I don't
hate you at all, but because you are white, I have certain ideas
about how you are or how you will respond in certain situations
because you are white just as many whites have these same ideas
about blacks. So get off of your little high horse and lets talk!
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,misc.education