From: russotto@eng.umd.edu (Matthew T. Russotto)
Subject: Re: I've just been repremanded by net.big.brother
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 00:42:13 GMT
Organization: Project GLUE, University of Maryland, College Park

In article <1992Dec13.122943.25005@ms.uky.edu> morgan@ms.uky.edu (Wes Morgan) writes:
>russotto@eng.umd.edu (Matthew T. Russotto) wrote:
>>betsys@cs.umb.edu (Elizabeth Schwartz) writes:
>>>Around here, we call polite requests TEACHING.
>>
>>Does your university have the catchall "refusal to obey the reasonable
>>request of a universal official" in its disciplinary code?  If so, a
>>'polite request' is an order, no matter what else it may be.  
>
>So, we've been stripped of any personal nature by our position within
>the University?  Is our every statement a direct order?  If I say "could
>you please send just one or two jobs to the printer at one time?", it's
>an order?

Yes.  At least it would be at UMCP, and if a user kept ignoring the
admin, the admin could take official action against the user and win, even
absent a policy of sending one or two jobs at a time.

>I don't like giving orders; students aren't part of my chain of command. 8)
>Besides, I have no desire to turn into some dictator who can only say no;
>I get a big kick out of saying yes!
>
>>You need
>>to have that removed from the code before you can reasonably say that
>>it is not a demand and not a threat.
>
>You need to realize that, despite your bad experience(s) with sysadmins,
>not every sysadmin is some petty tyrant exercising monolithic control
>over their domain of systems.

If I were a user on your system, I'd have to assume you are until
proven otherwise.  It's the only safe course.  Any time you made a
'request', I'd have to ask you to make clear whether or not you were
requiring me to follow it.

>I accomplish far more by NOT invoking 
>policy statements than I ever could as a "policy watchdog".  It's give
>and take, and my users (mostly students) understand and respect that.
>
>>If it doesn't have it, then a polite request is just a polite
>>request-- and may be refused without University-sanctioned
>>consequences.
>
>Exactly!  I make polite requests all the time, most of them coming in
>situations which are not clearly delineated in policy.  (We're back
>to the J-word again -- judgement)  If a real problem ensues/persists,
>I'll get with the appropriate people and MAKE a policy to cover it;
>in that case, I can't really do anything until the users are made aware
>of the policy, right?  In any case, I can't go back and retroactively
>punish users for deeds committed before the policy was there.....

Ahh, but with the catch-all in place, you could.  You could get the
user for ignoring your 'request', and THEN make the policy.  Now, YOU
might not be that type of person.  But such people exist and I've
been burned by them.

>>If you also tell him that his behavior may violate university
>>standards, and ask him to cut it out, that's an order, backed up by
>>the threat of university sanction.
>
>So, you want to see a hearing for each and every possible violation?
>That's what it sounds like.  

No.  But with that catch all in place, if you don't want something to
have the force of University rules, you'll have to say that
explicitly.  Does the University of Kentucky have such a catch all.

(what I _want_ is to see that catch-all, and a few like it, removed)
-- 
Matthew T. Russotto	russotto@eng.umd.edu	russotto@wam.umd.edu
Some news readers expect "Disclaimer:" here.
Just say NO to police searches and seizures.  Make them use force.
(not responsible for bodily harm resulting from following above advice)