HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: roger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: JOHN CAGE
Date: 21 Aug 92 23:29:26 GMT
Organization: Princeton University
Originator: news@nimaster

In article <BtCst1.B7q@quake.sylmar.ca.us> brian@quake.sylmar.ca.us (Brian K. Yoder) writes:
>In article <qgRsPB3w164w@sys6626.bison.mb.ca> kevin@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Kevin Scott) writes:

>>That's fairly blunt. It's certainly true that it's questionable whether a 
>>lot of what he did could be termed "music" at all, but to his credit he 
>>did write some very interesting stuff. The place I lose him is where one 
>>piece of music can sound totally different when interpreted by several 
>>people. In my mind, the point where the last bit of order is gone is 
>>where is stops being music and starts becoming "performance art".

>"Performance Art"?  What makes you think it's art at all?

Because people experience it that way.  Some of them even find
metaphysical value judgments in it.

>>However in the original message, I agree completely. Stuffy academics who 
>>look down their noses at Cage and self-righteously say to one another "I 
>>suppose he's INTERESTING..." while rolling their eyes in contempt, DO 
>>need a good amount of Cage rammed down their throats. 

>If you noticed, it is the "stuffy academics" who are ramming this stuff
>down our throats (such a the ones who made me listen to it when I was
>in school, and Mr. Lustig who is (presumably) an academic musicologist.

As usual, you presume wrong.  I have no academic position.  I am a
writer and consultant.  

Now, perhaps you could tell me where I have rammed Cage down your
throat.  As far as I can tell, the only things I have ever attempted to
ram down your throat are your own ignorance, prejudice, lies, and
bullshit.  

As for your teachers at school, I'm sorry they made you suffer so
greatly, but I suspect they had no ulterior motive other than to get you
to think about Cage.  Clearly it didn't work.

>Look around this news group.  The way to rile up the academics is not by
>praising people like Cage, but by pointing out that what he did was neither 
>music nor art.

In short, to speak nonsense.  You have never defended this assertion with
anything other than invective and pseudo-philosophy built on
hand-waving.

Yes, Brain, some of us do get riled up when you attack us with things
that are patently false or nonsensical.  We're *still* waiting to hear
what the metaphysical judgments in Beethoven's seventh are, and how you
can tell.

>>Say what you like about Cage...at least he's never boring. Wish I could 
>>say the same for Mozart.

>Are you telling me that sitting in silence for 4'33" is something other 
>than boring?  I can't imagine anything less exciting.

Who said it would be silent?  I've never heard a silent performance of
the piece.  Besides, there's always something to watch, too. 

Case in point: you don't know anything about the one piece whose name
you can actually stammer out.  But you babble on about it anyway.

Roger
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: ellen@hpcvxemm.cv.hp.com (Ellen M. McDonald)
Subject: Re: Another Olympic question
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 17:41:05 GMT


In article <1992Aug10.170710.27652@hpcvusn.cv.hp.com>, ellen@hpcvxemm.cv.hp.com (Ellen M. McDonald) writes:
|> 
|> Does anyone know the name of the music Monserrat Caballe was singing at the
|> Olympics opening ceremonies, when she first appeared, by herself, with the 
|> smoke swirling around?
|> 
|> Please reply by email if possible.  
|> 
|> Thanks,
|> 
|> Ellen

Thanks, I've got my answer now.  ("Casta Diva" from Norma, in case anyone
else was wondering.)

Ellen
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: le01167@portal.lasc.lockheed.com (Ron Nadel (x2025))
Subject: Re: Dukas' La Peri
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Lockheed Aeronautical Systems Co. - Rye Canyon
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 22:49:56 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.143758.9601@timessqr.gc.cuny.edu>, kos@cunyvms1.gc.cuny.edu writes...

>I've been enjoying a recording of Dukas's La Peri (conducted by Jordan - Ok
>Anyway, this ballet is preceeded by a fanfare.  The notes for the recording
>imply that the fanfare is part of the ballet.  But when I went to check
>the scores (both the full orchestral score and a piano reduction) there
>was no fanfare to be found (neither was there an explanation).

I have two recordings, Ansermet and Boulez.  Both have the fanfare.

Hmm. >8^/
Ron
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: clldomps@cs.ruu.nl (Louis van Dompselaar)
Subject: Glass' music performances
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 10:03:00 GMT
Organization: Utrecht University, Dept. of Computer Science
Keywords: Glass

Can anyone tell me about performances of new
Philip Glass material, especially in Europe?
I'm interested in any of his non-recorded
operas and his orchestral music, like The Light,
and others.

Also does anyone know if one of these (or perhaps
more) are to be recorded in the near future?

(I heard there already have been radio broadcasts
of some of his orchestral music).

And while you're at it, what exactly is his piece 
for piano and chorus called Requiem? Is it a true
interpretation of the original Latin Requiem text
(Requiem aeterna donna eis, Dominea, etc.) or
something entirely different?

Louis,
who missed Glass' performance of Koyaanisqatsi
and Powaqqatsi when it was just 15 minutes walking
away from his front door :-(


-- 

Louis van Dompselaar      |||  Life is short, Life is tiny
clldomps@cs.ruu.nl         |    -- Heart Throbs   
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: seioshan@cae.wisc.edu (Baher Seioshansian)
Subject: Trumpet for sale
Organization: College of Engineering, Univ. of Wisconsin-Madison
Date: 15 Aug 92 22:29:03 CDT
Originator: seioshan@sun-25.cae.wisc.edu


 Hi everyone ,
	I have a trumpet for sale.  The brand is "Jupiter", I only used it for
2 month, so it is roughly new. I'm asking for $150-200 I give it to the best
offering customer .   Thank you very much

 Tel : (608) 251-7489      Add : apt 206, 45 N.Orchard st.
				 Madison , WI 53715



Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical,rec.music.folk,rec.music.misc,rec.music.dementia
Subject: Re: musical coincidences [SUMMARY]
From: elkies@ramanujan.harvard.edu (Noam Elkies)
Date: 13 Aug 92 23:13:06 EDT
Organization: Harvard Math Department
Summary: tunes, please?

In article <1992Aug13.210600.13803@cs.ubc.ca> bobl@cs.ubc.ca (Bob Lewis) writes:
>Thanks to everyone who contributed "musical coincidences" to the collection
>I'm posting here.  I first thought of putting them in some kind of tabular
>form, but there were enough interesting parenthetical remarks that I think
>it's better to present the (only slightly edited) responses themselves.
>
>Some of these are probably ripoffs rather than coincidences, but that's
>okay.  Calling them "coincidences" just avoids any allegations of wrongdoing.
>
>If anybody thinks of any other coincidences, send them along and when I get
>enough, I'll post an updated list.

Please: this kind of list really should only be posted together with some
ASCII representation of the music involved.  It's one thing to discuss one
or a few well-known pieces (as in the recent thread on Brahms' 1st and
its "coincidences" with Beethoven's 9th and the Schubert Quintet), when
the scores and/or recordings are readily available for reference; it's
quite another to list coincidences among several dozen themes, some of them
probably obscure to most readers and hard to find, without any hint of
what they sound like.  I can't Name That Tune in zero notes!

Thanks,

--Noam D. Elkies (elkies@zariski.harvard.edu)
  Dept. of Mathematics, Harvard University

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: will@ogre.cica.indiana.edu (William Sadler)
Subject: Re: A quick guide to different musical periods...
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 14:25:00 GMT

In <1992Aug15.221716.1434@Princeton.EDU> roger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig) writes:

>Would you believe I had to take an exam like this as part of my
>musicology generals?  We were given twelve single sheets of notated
>music, and asked to comment on style, give a likely composer, etc.  10
>correct was passing.

 Not only would I believe it, I thought everyone had to take one.

Here at IU you get four pieces (this is required for all graduate
students in the SOM BTW) two are just listening, one is a score,
and one is both score and music.

You have to know the composer, the date (within 10-25 years) the style, etc.
They ask you several questions about each piece.

The problem I had was when they played Mahler's Organ Symphony.  It was
written in 1907 (or sometime around there) but stylistically it sounds
a lot to me like something Bruckner might have done a lot earlier.  It
also sounds very similar to Mahler's 2nd (they played the finale).  So
what 25 year period do you choose?

Exams like this will someday go the way of crew cuts and rednecks.  Oh, do
we still have those too? ;-)

Will
--
***************************************************************************
*   _______________\|/_      Will Sadler     will@cica.indiana.edu        * 
*   Laser 44888    /|\                       sadler@iubacs.bitnet         *     
***************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: wlh04953@elp.aero.org (William L. Hayden)
Subject: cd reviews
Summary: archive sites available for cd reviews?
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 22:46:24 GMT

are there any sites (FTP ?) available for reviews of classical music cd's?
for example - the cd review magazine database of review articles.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dl@indetech.com (David Lieberman)
Subject: Re: Opera miscastings (Re: Immortal opera recordings)
Organization: Independence Technologies, Inc. Fremont, CA
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 20:32:40 GMT

In article <Bsrys6.8CL@news.udel.edu> conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad) writes:
>In article <LEE.92Aug7155535@meercat.wang.com> lee@wang.com (Lee Story) writes:
>
>>TOSCA.  Graziella Sciutti et al, Angel (circa 1960).
>
>This is a joke, right?  Imagining Miss Sciutti, with one of the teeniest
>sopranos ever heard from a stage, belting out Tosca brought a big smile
>to my face.  She was certainly never on an Angel recording of Tosca!!

Maybe Renata Scotto was meant?

>
>But this brought to mind another operatic topic.  What are the most
>horrendous opera miscastings you can think of THAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED?
>Yes, this is kind of a "nasty" topic.  Castings either on records or on
>stage.  Here are my nominations:
>
>Katia Ricciarelli as Tosca (for Karajan on DG)
>Mario del Monaco as the Duke in Rigoletto (on an old London set)
>Kurt Boehme as Orestes in Elektra (on an issue of a live performance...
>  not to be believed)
>Jose Carreras as Tony in West Side Story (DG)
>Janis Martin as Ortrud in Lohengrin (Chicago, 1980...she might do better
> in the role now)
>
>Jon Alan Conrad

Marilyn Horne as Delilah.  I kept thinking what a great Samson
she would make.  Hey, there's inventive casting:  Samson et
Delilah with Horne as Samson and...Ivan Rebroff as Delilah.
What a concept!

Ramon Vinay as Bartolo (Mozart's!).  Vinay, a tenor in the 40s
and 50s started singing baritone roles in the 60s.  In fact, I
heard him do a fine Falstaff.  For some reason he decided to do
the bass role of Bartolo.  It was disastrous (San Francisco 1966).

Barry Morel in anything.

Irene Dalis as Isolde (San Francisco, late 1960s).  She had the
good sense never to do it again.

Fedora Barbieri in various comprimario character roles.  In the mid
to late 70s she did several seasons in San Francisco.  She let you
know by her stage deportment that she was the REAL star of the show.

Giusseppi Taddei snarling and barking his way through Scarpia.

Various overparted singers:  Reri Grist as Manon.  Berganza as
Carmen.  This would be a long list.


-- 
____*_  David Lieberman             dl@indetech.com
\  / /  Independence Technologies   {sun,uunet,pacbell}!indetech!dl
 \/ /   42705 Lawrence Place        FAX: 510 438-2034
  \/    Fremont, CA 94538           Voice: 510 438-2030
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: tait@cs.columbia.edu (Carl Tait)
Subject: Re: Chopin Preludes by Cortot
Organization: Columbia University Department of Computer Science
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 02:15:28 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.184205.20147@colorado.edu>
duli@prony.colorado.edu (Li Du) writes:
>I'd like to hear from you Chopin lovers what do you think about Cortot's
>performances of Chopin Preludes(Op. 28)? Specifically, which version of
>his records would you recommend? I understand that there are three
>versions exist: 1926, 1933-34 and 1943.
                                   ^^^^ 1942

The 1933-4 set usually gets the nod as the best version, though
the 1926 recording is also excellent.  The earlier version is more
polished, but the later disc has a slight interpretive edge.  Both
of these recordings are among the best Chopin Preludes ever, and the
sound quality in a well-remastered CD should be quite acceptable.

1942 is the clear loser.  Cortot should never have released it, and
one wonders why he did.  It is even more surprising that EMI chose to
include this palpably inferior version in their recent Cortot box set.
(But then again, they included the Etudes from this period, which
may set some kind of record for the lowest percentage of correct notes
in a professional recording.)

Carl Tait

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: roger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: Bulent Arel
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 13:48:39 GMT

In article <2aqqPB1w165w@west.darkside.com> k@west.darkside.com (K) writes:
>Hello, I am rather new to this Usenet thing...
>I shall come straight to the point:  I am a composer interested in 
>finding other composers who appreciate the music of Bulent Arel.  Has 
>anyone here even HEARD or Arel??
>Help.
I don't know much of his music, but one of his paintings hangs in my
aunt's dining room.  

If you'd like to talk with someone who truly appreciates Arel's music,
write to Milton Babbitt at the Princeton music dept.  He'll be glad to
tell you all sorts of things, I'm sure.

Roger

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: brandon@unislc.uucp (Brandon Ausman)
Subject: Re: Beethoven - overvalued?
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 21:53:26 GMT


Unfortunate that no one has yet to mention Rachmaninoff, who was truly
one of the most talented piano composers of the last two hundred years..
not eclipsing Beethoven or Chopin, but after that he deserves a fair shake...


		Brandon

		brandon@unislc.slc.unisys.com

		OR

		bta0791@risky.wcslc.edu

		  
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: lms@TorreyPinesCA.ncr.com (Max Stern 310-524-6152)
Subject: Re: clarinet arcana
Organization: NCR (Torrey Pines Development Center)
Disclaimer: This posting does not neccessarily reflect the opinions of NCR.
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 22:04:06 GMT

In article <1992Aug21.014238.10372@news.Hawaii.Edu> tholen@galileo.ifa.hawaii.edu (Dave Tholen) writes:
>
>We're playing something in our community orchestra right now that starts
>out with clarinet in A, then switches to clarinet in C, then goes back to
>A.  "Martha" is the title; I've forgotten the name of the composer, and
>no wonder -- the conductor says it's the only recognizable melody that
>this guy wrote...

The composer is Flotow, but others will have to give the rest of the
story...
-- 

 |\/|  /_\  \/
 |  | /   \ /\                      Max.Stern@TorreyPinesCA.ncr.com
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: riggsby@utkvx2.utk.edu (STUART)
Subject: Re: Opera miscastings (Re: Immortal opera recordings)
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Tennessee Computing Center
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 14:29:00 GMT

In article <64036@cup.portal.com>, Bill_P_Pearce@cup.portal.com writes...
>  Regarding opera miscastings, another that comes to mind for me, from
>a live performance (by the Met, in Minneapolis, back when they still
>did the spring tours -- about 1981 or so, I think), was Renata Scotta
>as Norma.  I have admired her singing in other roles, but Norma was
>simply too much for her, in my opinion, either because of the time in
>her career or the basic voice, or whatever.
> 
>  A far different case that also comes to mind is Schwarzkopf as the
>Marschallin in Der Rosenkavalier -- I never heard her do it and I
>imagine it was one of her great roles -- but I remember someone telling
>me once he had seen her do it (in Vienna, I think) and felt that there
>was a dramatic flaw: she was simply too beautiful for Octavian to have
>left her for a younger woman!
> 
>     Bill Pearce

I did see her in the role, and appreciate the point.  But remember that
Oktavian i 17, may not be so appreciative of that sort of beaauty.  But I do
have a real nomination for Schwarzkopf miscassting - Liu in the EMI Callas
Turandot. But then, almost everything in that recording was wrong.

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: rwilmer@zinka.mitre.org (R. Wilmer)
Subject: Re: Live recordings (was Re: Immortal opera recordings)
Organization: Mitre Corporation, McLean, VA
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 20:21:01 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.182157.14706@husc3.harvard.edu> vnguyen@husc8.harvard.edu (Vinh Nguyen) writes:
>Subject: Re: Live recordings (was Re: Immortal opera recordings)
>Reply-To: vnguyen@husc8
>Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
>References: <1992Aug11.224125.24040@lloyd.Camex.COM>
>Distribution: cct
>
>From article <1992Aug11.224125.24040@lloyd.Camex.COM>, 
>	by chrisi@lloyd.Camex.COM (Chris Ischay):
>
>> But I'd like to hear a little more from others about their experiences of
>> live recordings (is there a less oxymoronic way to say that?).  They don't
>> get discussed very much in this newsgroup, and I believe there's a wealth
>> of exciting music out there, albeit surrounded by a lot of dreck and bad
>> recording quality.
> 

I recommend the Callas excerpt tapes of live performances.  So far
I have heard Verdi Macbeth, Donizetti Poliuto, and Gluck Iphigenie en
Tauride.  Here Callas gives thrills and musical delight in three
varying styles.

There is a vocally splendid tape of Milanov and Corelli singing
Tosca at Covent Garden in 1957 (available on Legato Classics).

I enjoy my CD of a live performance of Verdi's Alzira with Virginia
Zeani.  The singing and recording are not great, but where else
can you here this vastly underrated opera?

Richard
From: Patrick.Bruer@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Patrick Bruer)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Mozart Piano Sonatas: Recordings?
Date: 21 Aug 92 18:09:16 GMT
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service

I'm considering the purchase the Mozart piano sonatas
on CD, and would like to hear some comments on the available recordings.
I'm leaning toward the Uchida recording, part of the Philips "Complete
Mozart" package. Any thoughts?

Patrick Bruer
Dept. of Political Science
University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill
Patrick.Bruer@bbs.oit.unc.edu
--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
From: jhill@gallstone.bucknell.edu (HILL, S JACKSON)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Telefunken records
Keywords: Telefunken
Date: 18 Aug 92 16:28:00 GMT
Organization: Bucknell University, Lewisburg, PA, USA
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1

I am trying to track down a Telefunken recording Tel 6.28575.  I do not know
title or performers, but it would seem to be an anthology of Volkslieder or
something similar--perhaps short choral songs of various sorts.  Does
Telefunken still produce or have they been sold to another company?  Is there
anyone reading this who is in Germany and could telephone a local record shop
for me and post or e-mail any information?  Any info would be welcome.
Thanks.   J. Hill    (jhill@bucknell.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: ylee@syl.dl.nec.com (Ying-Da Lee)
Subject: Re: Wedding music Recommedations
Organization: NEC Systems Lab., C&C Software Technology Center (Dallas, TX)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 18:03:47 GMT

snahas@ARIES.INTEL.COM (steven nahas) writes:

>To hopefully further clarify:
>No live musicians, just CD's.
>True, we could listen for our whole honeymoon if everyone suggests something
>from each of the composers listed, but i'm hoping some suggestions will be
>STRONGLY recommended or multipli-recommended, so that I'll get off my butt
>and go listen to them :-)...

I am not sure how the pieces I am going to mention can be used
in the wedding.  All of them are probably too long for the actual
ceremony, but perhaps some would be nice at reception or honeymoon.

1) Bach: Concerto in D minor for two violins.  (Can't remember the BWV
number, sorry)  The second movement (Largo) as recorded by David & Igor
Oistrakh is the most sensual piece of music I've ever heard, bar none.
Harnoncourt's performance may be authentic and nice to hear, but it
is entirely a different thing.  In this case, I'll be incorrigible and
pledge my alliance to the Oistrakhs.  The tender lovingness of the
intertwining violin lines are breathtakingly touching.  I don't know
if the Oistrakh version is available on CD.  If not, try the recordings
of the old-fashion sort if you want the old-fashioned romance, incorrect
though it may be.

2) Wieniawski: Legend, for violin and orchestra.  If I ever had an
urge to proclaim my love for someone in music, this is THE one I would
play if I could.  It's direct and unapologetically impassioned.  It
also happens to be a gorgeous piece of violin wizardry.  Gil Shaham (?)
includes it in his recent DG recording of Wieniawski's two violin concertos.
It's all right.  So is Elman in an anthology available on CD.  What
I have been hunting for is an old Oistrakh recording with orchestra.
The version with piano accompaniment is very fine, but the orchestra
version is magical.

3) Vaughan Williams:  Serenade to Music.  Both the original version
with 16 vocal soloists and the purely orchestral version are good
to have.  (There is apparently a choral version as well, which I've
never heard.)  Quintessential RVW spinning of beautiful lines.  My
initial introduction was through Adrian Boult's recording of the
vocal version, now on EMI with other RVW shorter orchestral pieces.
I now prefer Matthew Best's Hyperion version.  Chando's orchestral
version (with Handley and London Phil., I think) is lovely.

4) Brahms:  Serenade #1.  Johanese at his most sunny, happy and
congenial.  Even a little festive sometimes.  The first movement
is simply ideal for an entrance or a casual procession.  Also
useful for cleansing the palates between all the sweet courses.
There are quite a few choices on CD, including an El cheapo on
London's Weekend Classic label, coupled with the second serenade.
Terrific bargain, and not really a bad recording either.

	Ying-Da Lee
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical