HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: scg@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Kelly Martin)
Subject: Re: God Conference on Player's Rights
Reply-To: scg@mentor.cc.purdue.edu
Organization: Gender Anarchists United
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 12:46:22 GMT

xibo@fido.econ.arizona.edu (Mr. Coates) writes:

>Players have no rights!  None!

Players have whatever rights the operators of the MUD care to grant
them.

>But this does not mean that players have any rights.  The admin can
>shut down the mud at any time, delete it, change, or even paint it
>blue.  To say otherwise would mean that some total stranger can walk
>onto the mud and claim some of the admin's hardware as his own
>property.  People don't have the right to take your car away if you
>give them a ride; they don't have the right to take your computer
>away if you let them mud on it.

That's because our government (which is to say, us, the people, since
most of us live in republican governments) DECIDED that we have
certain rights and enforces them on our behalf.

If the government were to choose, any or all of those rights could
cease to exist.

I think this conference is an attempt to do about the same thing.
--
There is no USENET death penalty. John Palmer's continued presence among us is
proof of that.
		-- Evan Leibovitch (evan@telly.on.ca), in news.groups
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud,rec.games.mud.tiny,rec.games.mud.misc
From: jecoleb@eos.ncsu.edu (have clue, will travel)
Subject: Re: God Conference on Player's Rights
Keywords: dream on
Reply-To: jecoleb@eos.ncsu.edu
Organization: The Ghost Of Christmas Past Society
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 05:42:04 GMT


Wow... a full-fledged flamewar, and no one's even mentioned the word 
"Bruce" yet.

Let's follow the bouncing thread one more time, shall we?

x -- "___ is a fascist" ---<-------------<---------
y -- " x is being naive"                          |
x -- "MUDders have inalienable rights"        [repeat]
a -- "no, they don't"                             |
b -- "yes, they do"                               |
c-r inclusive -- "yes/no/maybe, maybe not"       /|\
 |                                                |
 ---->---------[lather]------>-----------------[rinse]



         		       --jeff "can't wait 'til y'all get warmed UP
                                 around March or so..." c., ncsu.

	                         Popekin@Igor, Flipper@Hero[RIP], dozens of
			          throwaways lots of other places.
			
--
     jecoleb@eos.ncsu.edu      \\              To KLH:
 "I don't know where you took   --=--      Love ya, Katya!
 me, but I didn't want to leave."   \\  have clue, will travel.
       ---------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud,rec.games.mud.misc,rec.games.mud.tiny
From: lmc@nebula.lib.vt.edu (Laura M. Craighead)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.announce
Subject: TrekMUSE
Date: 4 Jan 93 03:51:52 GMT
Article-I.D.: shelley.1iah2rINN667
Followup-To: poster
Organization: UNC Educational Computing Service
NNTP-Posting-Host: glia.biostr.washington.edu
Originator: scott@glia

TrekMUSE reopening has been delayed until January 18th.  We're a bit
behind on things.  Sorry folks.  For those wanting a place to hang
out in the mean time, a _temporary_ game has been set up on port
17010.  This does not have the Trek db, space, or anything else from
Trek and it will go away forever on January 18th when TrekMUSE returns.
You're free to build and play there, just remember that db is only 
temporary!

Again, we apologize for the delay.  See you all on the 18th!

--Laura


-- 
rec.games.mud.announce submissions: rgm-announce@glia.biostr.washington.edu
other stuff related to that group:  rgm-announce-request@glia...
mudlist-related mail:		    mudlist@glia.biostr.washington.edu
other mail of a personal nature:    scott@glia... or scg@mentor.cc.purdue.edu
From: daeron@weyl.geom.umn.edu (Daeron Meyer)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.announce
Subject: GumbiMud returns!
Followup-To: poster
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 03:55:16 GMT
Organization: Geometry Center, University of Minnesota
NNTP-Posting-Host: glia.biostr.washington.edu
Originator: scott@glia


      .:::::::.
     ::'     .:               :                        :
     ::                       :     .                  :
     ::     ... ..  .  .. .   :..      .. .   .  .   ..:
     ::.      :  :  :  : : :  :  :  :  : : :  :  :  :  :
      '::::::::  '..:..:   :..'..'..'..:   :..'..:..'..'..
             ::                                           :
        ..   ::      ..............                       :
       '..:..'    .'                '.  .........       .'
           :     :        .......     .'         '.   .'
                  '.    .'        '..' '..........:..'
                    '..:...........'.    ...    .'
                       '.       ...  '..:...:..'
                         '.....:...:...'   .'
                                '.. '.....'
                                   :
                                   :
                                 . : .
                                  ':'

is back up after a holiday power outage. Come by and pay us all a visit... :)

128.101.25.165 3000

-Gumbi


-- 
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Xref: sparky rec.games.mud.announce:198 rec.games.mud.tiny:1204
From: xibo@fido.econ.arizona.edu (Mr. Coates)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.announce,rec.games.mud.tiny
Subject: TeenyMud 1.3 beta released
Date: 1 Jan 93 01:44:52 GMT
Article-I.D.: shelley.1iah4kINN67u
Followup-To: poster
Organization: unknown
NNTP-Posting-Host: glia.biostr.washington.edu
Originator: scott@glia


Announcement: TeenyMud 1.3 beta has been released.  If no problems are
reported, this will become the official release on February 1st.

Please note this is the last version of TeenyMud that I will do.  It
serves its purpose well; that is, it is the world's smallest, fastest
mud around.  Improvements to it would be pointless; just use some other
mud code that has the features you're looking for, like MUSH, Cool,
Spoof, etc.  But TeenyMud has really reached the end of its life cycle;
therefore I am refusing to do a future version.

If you want a simple mud that runs in very little RAM, is disk-based,
has a long history of refinement, or if you are looking for a simple
Starter Mud to learn the basics of server hacking, then TeenyMud is
a great choice.

If you want a combat mud, programs, automatons, complex links, or anything
fancy, you probably do not want TeenyMud.

This version is available via ftp from fido.econ.arizona.edu in the
directory /pub/teeny.  The file is TeenyMud1.3b.tar.Z

TeenyMud was written by Andrew Molitor, Jason Downs, and Sean Coates (Xibo).
I'm supporting this release.  Send bug reports to xibo@fido.econ.arizona.edu

                                                    -- Xibo


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Newsgroups: rec.games.mud,rec.games.mud.misc,rec.games.mud.tiny
From: snarflrd@leland.Stanford.EDU (NM156)
Subject: Re: Conference on Admin Ethics (WAS: Conf. on Player's Rights)
Keywords: n
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 93 23:27:54 GMT

In article <1ikr9dINN8rk@pith.uoregon.edu> johnm@cajal.uoregon.edu (John Martin) writes:
>In article <1993Jan8.193733.16033@leland.Stanford.EDU>, snarflrd@leland.Stanford.EDU (NM156) writes:
>
>Your interpretation is correct. The issues and statements made *are*
>meant to be applied to the population in general, not just to admins
>and such.

i agree with you 100 percent with that revision, but a statement by the
administrators to act ethically has no teeth in it to prevent player abuses.


>>the fact is:  wizards are only very rarely the source of rights violations
>>[it's very pragmatic:  they have other things to do with their time, usually]
>
>Well, as an admin, and as a player on a number of muds, my experience
>does not bear this up. I think that power abuses by wizards are actually
>rather common.

i was speaking from experience as well ... i retired as wizard on a MU*
because i found myself chasing after players who were spying on each other,
stealing privileges, etc... i had no consistent guidelines to point to when
i caught them to show them that i wasn't the ONLY one who thinks certain
behaviors are wrong.  A month or so ago, i logged onto an [anonymous] MUCK
and didn't feel like letting everyone know who i was or where i was from,
when another player (using a self-written program) announces to the room full
of people what my site i was calling from ... a 'finger' command would have
told anyone who was sitting at that machine.  i have NEVER had a wizard
knowingly violate my privacy ... i've had dozens of players do so.

i think the concern over wizard abuses vs. player abuses is similar to the
panic over flying vs. driving.  Even though many more people will be harmed
by players invading each other's privacy/harassing others, wizard abuses get
the most publicity since they have the greatest POWER to do damage on an
individual level.

toss out the specific penalties if you like, but i would still like to see
certain specific forms of behavior/treatment towards other players that is
FORBIDDEN on a Singlenesia-conference-supporting MU*.  If i'm ever going
to develop a serious character on a new MU*, or consider wizzing permanently
again, i want to be able to specifically show what publicly-known rule was
being violated and have the problem dealt with.
i will get no solace by seeing a MU* support your resolution if it only
offers a vague, nonspecific (therefore non-enforceable) promise to treat
everyone well.
-- 
Ingredients: chopped pork shoulder with ham, salt, water, sugar, sodium
             nitrate, snarflrd@leland.stanford.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud,rec.games.mud.tiny,rec.games.mud.misc
From: scg@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Kelly Martin)
Subject: Re: God Conference on Player's Rights
Reply-To: scg@mentor.cc.purdue.edu
Organization: Gender Anarchists United
	<1993Jan7.173307.6446@leland.Stanford.EDU>
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 12:55:46 GMT

snarflrd@leland.Stanford.EDU (NM156) writes:

>2) A Player on this MU* has the same rights and potential as any
>other player.  Any player should be able to rise to the level of any
>other given time and effort.  Nepotism is bad.

In the highly unlikely event I ever run a MUD again, you can rest
assured that I will give special consideration to my lover(s) and
close friends in assigning levels of privileges.  MUDs are not a
business.

--
There is no USENET death penalty. John Palmer's continued presence among us is
proof of that.
		-- Evan Leibovitch (evan@telly.on.ca), in news.groups
Xref: sparky rec.games.mud:9189 rec.games.mud.tiny:1235 rec.games.mud.misc:1813
From: starride@nighthawk.ksu.ksu.edu (David Chase)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud,rec.games.mud.tiny,rec.games.mud.misc
Subject: Re: God Conference on Player's Rights
Date: 7 Jan 1993 11:11:56 -0600
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: nighthawk.ksu.ksu.edu



	It is very nice to see that nothing has changed from the days of when 
lar released muds to the world. 

	What am I talking about. Simply this what all of you are arguing and
discussing has been happening since muds started on the nets. Fenris died due
to the players abusing it (for those who even know what or were Fenris was).
And now once again the cry for fairness and rules comes forth.


	My idea is for the god/gods and wizards who run the game to make a
policy for THEIR mud and stick with it. PERIOD.

	Unless you all allow some council to enter your mud and overwatch your
mud there is no way any rule can ever be made to stick. Hell it is hard enough
to watch what ever one is doing as it is.

	And for all you people who dont like or get along with the people 
who are running the mud you are on heres what you do 


	GET THE FUCK OFF THAT MUD AND FIND ONE YOU DO LIKE.


	David Chase   aka   Saydor


	From some one who has seen and heard enough basing of muds and mud people.



Newsgroups: rec.games.mud,rec.games.mud.tiny,rec.games.mud.misc
From: scg@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Kelly Martin)
Subject: Re: God Conference on Player's Rights
Followup-To: rec.games.mud,rec.games.mud.tiny,rec.games.mud.misc
Reply-To: scg@mentor.cc.purdue.edu
Organization: Gender Anarchists United
	<1ifm3tINNbmd@pith.uoregon.edu>
	<1993Jan10.215123.7819@wixer.cactus.org>
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 02:22:02 GMT

rhodesia@wixer.cactus.org (Felix S. Gallo) writes:

>If you walk into my house -- even if I've left the door open -- and
>start pretending to be a small furry creature, then I can blow you up
>with TNT whenever I want.  I can tell the neighbors about you.  I can
>even, using my freedom of speech, tell over 3 million people about
>you.

While it is true you can't blow me up with TNT, you CAN tell your
neighbors, or even over 3 million people.  If I am so stupid as to
enter your house and start acting like a furry creature, I get what I
deserve.  In most states, I can even shoot you.

Now, if I was doing this in MY house with the doors closed and the
shades drawn and wasn't making enough noise to be heard outside, THEN
you would be violating my privacy to tell your (or my) neighbors about
it.  Unless, of course, I told you myself.

The same would be true if I was doing this in YOUR hotel in the room I
rented, because when I rent a hotel room you agree not to enter it or
otherwise invade my privacy except under certain terms (actually, most
states force you to agree to this).  THIS is what we are talking
about.  Note the "YOU AGREE" bit.  If you don't agree, my tough luck.
Maybe I should go to a different hotel.

Get the idea?

(note: most of this is NOT directed at Rhodesia)
--
There is no USENET death penalty. John Palmer's continued presence among us is
proof of that.
		-- Evan Leibovitch (evan@telly.on.ca), in news.groups
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud,rec.games.mud.tiny,rec.games.mud.misc
From: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee)
Subject: Re: God Conference on Player's Rights
Organization: Johns Hopkins University CS Dept.
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 19:19:33 GMT

In article <C0H5pv.3tv@ais.org> jgm@ais.org (jim miller) writes:
>Expect this analogy to soon be countered with the argument:  "but
>everything is provided free for you on my mud, by the sweat of my
>unsung hero's brow.  If it weren't for me, your little mud on which
>you proclaim your rights wouldn't even exist.  THEREFORE, if you don't
>like it, go somewhere else, but DON'T COMPLAIN."

"My complaints are provided free for you by the sweat of my brow...."

The general reply to "we have a right to do anything we want" is "yes, and I
have a right to complain about anything I want".  "Don't complain" cannot
apply.

One problem is that the argument has no dependency on the content of the
complaint.  If that argument actually made any sense, no player, on any mud,
should complain about _anything_.  You can't even tell the wizards that the
chat area has a misspelling in it, let alone complain about a policy.  Few gods
are _truly_ sincere, then, about this argument.

The argument is also ultimately a pragmatic one: it's my mud, so you can't stop
me from doing things you don't like.  It's my mud, so I can just take it down
rather than fix the things you're complaining about.  OK, I _can't_ stop you.
So?  Does that make it _ethical_?  (What sort of ethical principle could you
possibly get that from?  A principle like "everyone is right until they are
stopped"?  That principle would legitimize not only gods, but uncaught virus
writers....)
--
"On the first day after Christmas my truelove served to me...  Leftover Turkey!
On the second day after Christmas my truelove served to me...  Turkey Casserole
    that she made from Leftover Turkey.
[days 3-4 deleted] ...  Flaming Turkey Wings! ...
   -- Pizza Hut commercial (and M*tlu/A*gic bait)

Ken Arromdee (arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu, arromdee@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud,rec.games.mud.tiny,rec.games.mud.misc
From: tuff@ellis.uchicago.edu (Geoff Tuffli)
Subject: Re: God Conference on Player's Rights
Reply-To: tuff@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 08:58:05 GMT

In article <C0H5pv.3tv@ais.org> jgm@ais.org (jim miller) writes:
>
>Expect this analogy to soon be countered with the argument:  "but
>everything is provided free for you on my mud, by the sweat of my
>unsung hero's brow.  If it weren't for me, your little mud on which
>you proclaim your rights wouldn't even exist.  THEREFORE, if you don't
>like it, go somewhere else, but DON'T COMPLAIN."
>

	May I suggest that you may be missing the point and intent of the
original poster of this thread - obviously, not every MUSH administration,
or even a majority, in all likelihood, will agree to this document. However,
some certain small percentage _will_, and if nothing else, a player who is
on such a MUSH will know exactly what rights the administration is explicitly
protecting.

	In addition, I frankly find the "Love it or leave it," attitude
rather simplistic. As a maintainer of a MU*, you are certainly well within
your rights to run your MU* any way you please. However, this does not
mean that some group of MUSH administrators (say, those that might sign
such a document) may wish to adopt a different philosophy for their MU*s -
not a better one, not a worse one - merely a different one.

	Geoff Tuffli
	The Green Griffin
From: lee@quark2.aero.org
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.diku
Subject: where is source code?
Date: 6 Jan 1993 08:19 -0800
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation
Distribution: usa
Reply-To: lee@arecibo.aero.org
NNTP-Posting-Host: quark2.aero.org
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

So what are some ftp sites that I can obtain the dikumud source code from?
From: mohrc@storm.CS.ORST.EDU (Craig Mohr)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.diku
Subject: Re: Eltanin
Date: 8 Jan 93 23:51:57 GMT
Article-I.D.: flop.1il42tINNl07
Organization: Computer Science Department, Oregon State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: storm.cs.orst.edu

In article <1ikubfINN880@gap.caltech.edu> kychen@cco.caltech.edu (Kay-Yut Chen) writes:
>Does anyone know what happen to Eltanin? Did i get the right address?
>Is it still 140.211.111.23 4000
>
>It was down since i came back from Xmas vacation.
>
>Kay Chen

The machine crashed and the root hard drive lost a power supply. The machine is
back up now but it has an old password file that doesnt have the Eltanin account
in it. The machine is due for repairs monday and then we should be able to get
the old password file back in. Right now its just barely limping along and we
dont want any muds running on it.


.------------------------------------------------------------------------------.
| C. Mohr       | Inet Address: mohrc@storm.cs.orst.edu, jacobs.cs.orst.edu    |
| Phone Number: |               mohrc@odin.wosc.osshe.edu, uhro.wosc.osshe.edu |
| (503) 838-8998|  Western Oregon State College Sequent Systems Administrator  |
|---------------^--------------------------------------------------------------|
| First learn computer science and all the theory.  Next develop a programming |
| style.  Then forget all that and just hack.                                  |
`------------------------------------------------------------------------------'
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.diku
From: brumleve@iboga (Dan Brumleve)
Subject: Re: My suggestion...
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 17:16:38 GMT

tobritt@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov (Randall Britton (SVER)) writes:

>In article <1993Jan8.043624.24411@oz.plymouth.edu>, j_herlih@oz.plymouth.edu (Axl) writes...
>>In article <1iioesINN92l@shelley.u.washington.edu>
>>imajica@hardy.u.washington.edu (Tchaikovsky's little brother Ned.) writes:
>>>Try out the mud I play on... it's been running strong for 6 months now, and
>>>is constantly growing and improving... 
>>> 
>>>Renegade Outpost
>>>                                   louie.cc.utexas.edu 4000
>>> 
>>>It is a very nice mud, with very good players and immortals, and has been
>>>proven time and time again.
>>> 
>>>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>	Oh, pleez...not this brown-nosing crap again.  Haven't we all
>>had enough???
>>--
>>-Axl @)-->--- 
>> j_herlih@oz.plymouth.edu - "There can be only one"

>*SIGH* What IS it with you guys????  He WAS NOT BROWN-NOSING!!  No mention of
>specific gods by name.  No mention of his own player character name.  No 
>nothing, except an opinion about the mud.  There have a been a couple of 
>requests posted lately for mud recommendations.  I would think that this is 
>just a response to those.  SHEESH!!

The post was yet another advertisement for Renegade Outpost, which seem to show
up every week here.  The first one was posted as a followup to every single
thread on every MUD-related newsgroup, and the poster later admitted to
advertising it at the request of a god there, I believe.  Since then,
Renegade Outpose ads have popped up with annoying frequency.

-Dan
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.diku
From: chuong@ecf.toronto.edu (CHUONG HAN HSING)
Subject: Imperial Mud Vol. 1 Doc. 1
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 03:02:50 GMT

Howdy all,

    There is a good mud on the internet right now called
    Imperial.  It is a diku mud and boasts the following features:

    - about 40 areas.
    - mage, warrior, theif, cleric, paladin, evil-paladin,
      commando, bard and ninja classes. (There was once the
      Avatar class, but that has since been phased out.)
    - Rent hovers around 50-100K for most high level players
      carrying only the bare essentials.
    - There are 4 rest rooms designed for faster recover if
      membership is paid.  500K for membership.
    - Insurance companies sell what is basically auto-recall.
      The price depends on your level.
    - 30 levels. That is, level 31 is immort.
    - There are 'auction' and 'gossip' channels for the selling
      of goods and for conversation respectively.
    - Shouting is heard by players in the same area as your
      character, yelling is heard by all.
    - Approximately 6 spell lists...one list for each of mage,
      cleric, paladin, anti-paladin, commando and bard classes.
    - Although based in Finland, lag is most often negligible for
      North American players.
    - Bards have spells as well as songs.  Songs are basically
      room-effect spells.
    - Tons of equipment and items, but that comes with the areas.
    - Standard areas such as Drow, Thalos and Chessboard, but many
      new ones as well.

      Take a look and have fun.
      Galactus the Destroyer of Worlds

      telnet supergirl.cs.hut.fi 6969
From: ripper@csa.bu.edu (keith mcclelland)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.diku
Subject: Re: WANTED: DIKU area creation programs
Date: 7 Jan 93 21:12:10 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department, Boston University, Boston, MA, USA
Originator: ripper@csa


Ummm, I got one for Silly type muds.
It could be stripped down for standard.
It only does mobs and objs though.
mail me if interested, I don't know
if I have time to strip it down.

-keith