From: dawn1@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (dawn.e.howe)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: Setter Questions? (english setter info)
Date: 27 Aug 92 19:48:58 GMT
Organization: AT&T

From article <seaGiyK00YV784dFZn@andrew.cmu.edu>, by Steve Klim <sk2i+@andrew.cmu.edu>:
> 
> the years.
>          I have a few questions about a setter I had seen a few years ago.
> The setter seemed to have all the marking and traits of an Irish Setter
> with the exception he was black. I have asked a few people if they new
> what type of setter this may have been. Someone suggested it was a dog
> not to common but is of a breed. My questions are:

Probably a gordon setter.  I don't really know much about them, but
we recently got an English Setter.  I also had an Irish Setter while
I was growing up, and while she was a great dog, she was a bit schizo
at times.

We got our setter, Sophie, (now 13.5 weeks) at 8 weeks.  She is great!!!

She is very affectionate, alert, quiet (normally), calm, playful,
and really smart.  Training her has been quite easy, and she catches
on really quickly.  We rely heavily on crate training, because on occasion
when we leave her out and aren't paying as much attention to her as she
wants, she'll get into trouble.  She's catching on to housebreaking, but
is too quiet (she'll walk to the back door and look at it, and if we don't
notice, she'll pee by the door.... we just have to get her to bark or 
something)  Everyday she gets better.   Last night was her first puppy
class and she was really the star pupil (we're such proud parents :-)
The instructor kept using her as the example because we got a late
start and Sophie caught on to things more quickly than the other pups.

English setters are smaller than irish setters, and ES from hunting stock
(what Sophie is) are smaller than those bred for show.  Sophie won't be
as pretty as the show dogs (her feathering probably won't be as long, and
some of her littermates had large orange and black patches on their bodies), 
but from what we read, the dogs from hunting lines have a more even temperment,
and make better companions.  We expect Sophie to reach about 50 pounds
(20-25 kilos).

English setters are white with black patches or ticking, white & lemon,
white & orange, or tri-colored (white, black & orange).  Sophie is
white with orange around one eye, and orange spots all over her body.

ES need lots of human contact (don't make good kennel dogs), are great with
kids, and don't make good guard dogs.  (all generalizations, of course)
Sophie loves sitting on our laps (probably not too great of an idea as she
gets bigger).

> 3) How rare are they?

ES are kind of hard to find.  We looked for quite a while.  We found
an outstanding breeder, who also trains bird dogs.  Setters are his
favorite to train (he says that when you are talking to someone that
bird hunts, "setter" means only english setters.  He says irish setters
have all the instinct bred out of them, but distinguishes "red setters"
(which I'm guessing are Irish Setters from a hunting stock, not show), and
says that they can be trained.)

Setters point, and at 9 weeks, Sophie had all the instinct in her
to point a quail.  They won't retrieve instinctively, but will do
so because you ask them to.  She had a great time with bird training,
and it's fun for us to watch her!

There is an advantage to ES not being popular... there aren't as many
"backyard breeders", and the breed has been kept pretty pure.

> 4) Would the cost (apprx.) one would pay, be much more than the Irish
> Setter (A.K.C. registered)? 
We paid $250, and got her in McHenry, Illinois (USA).

> 5) Do these dogs act differently, such as temperment or attitude, from
> that of the Irish Setter? 

English setters have a much better temperment than Irish Setters 
(in general).  Both are very affectionate, and pretty happy dogs.

Dawn Howe
AT&T Bell Labs