From: leifmk@Lise.Unit.NO (Leif Magnar Kj|nn|y)
Newsgroups: rec.games.cyber
Subject: Re: Cyberspace vs Cyberpunk 2020 vs GURPS cyberpunk
Date: 11 Sep 92 18:51:07 GMT
Organization: Norwegian Institute of Technology
Archive-Name: rgc602

In article <1992Sep10.230134.17096@Veritas.COM>, rale1@cs.aukuni.ac.nz (Ross Douglas        Alexander      ) writes:
 > I'm looking at buying a cyberpunk RPG so I thought I'd ask around
 > to see the pros and cons of each system.
 > 
 > Please POST any replies onto newsnet (as I don't have to pay for
 > it that way) ie ** PLEASE DO NOT MAIL ** replies (as the department
 > doesn't like it).
 > 
 > [[ And please be constructive in how you answer this question.
 >    Explain what you like and why you like it.  To steal a quote
 >    for the movie WALL STREET: ``Don't get emotional about games,
 >    it clouds your judgement.''
 >    --Joshua ]]
 > 
 > Ross Alexander
 > rale1@cs.aukuni.ac.nz
 > Computer Science Department
 > Auckland University
 > New Zealand

Well, I've played all three games (just barely Cyberpunk 2020, though), and have
the following to say (all IMHO):

-Cyberpunk 2020 I know little about (having taken part in one session as a
player); it seems like a decent enough system (fairly simple mechanics, although
there could be more complicated stuff hidden somewhere than what I have seen),
but I just haven't seen enough of it to make a judgment on it.

-Cyberspace is OK if you like d100 rolls.  If you've seen Rolemaster, Spacemaster,
or MERP, then you already know the system.  It's simpler than Rolemaster and
Spacemaster (being a simplified Spacemaster clone in most respects), but there's
still a number of charts and tables for various actions (notably combat).  It's
somewhat more complicated (I think) than MERP.  This game contains a specific
campaign world (naturally based on today's Earth); it takes place about 2090.
I've seen a couple of supplements to it.  The European sourcebook is quite OK,
although the adventure it contains is fairly--let's say--weird.  (Spoilers ho:
At the end of this article I'll tell more about it.  Don't read past the easily
identifiable huge blank area near the end unless you really want to know about
this adventure--prospective players, beware.)
	On the plus side, this game has *lots* of cyberware available, as well as
a system for cyber-induced psychosis.  On the flip side, like all ICE games I've
seen, it is a rather rigid system where everything may depend on the roll of a
couple of dice and the reading of a table.  Also, it is a levels-and-xp-based
game, which is my major gripe against it.  Aside from that, I quite like it
myself, although I don't use (or plan to use) it for my own campaigns.  One other
problem:  A lot of the items listed in the equipment section have been assigned
weights which are simply ridiculously high.  Computer equipment, for example,
weighs far too much.  In fact, many of these futuristic, high-tech items are
_heavier_ than equivalent items are today.  In the campaign I played in, though,
the GM simply stated new (and MUCH lower) weights for such items.  So this is a
minor problem, and no problem at all unless you can't figure out such things for
yourself.

-GURPS Cyberpunk is the system I use myself (with modifications).  This is mainly
because it is (of course) part of the GURPS system, which allows any kind of genre
gaming.  So in order to play GURPS Cyberpunk, you need the GURPS basic system
(which I would recommend, because I think it is very good:  Realistic, flexible,
playtested--the current edition is no. 3--and VERY well supported with dozens of
genre supplements and worldbooks.)  However, GURPS Cyberpunk does not supply a
complete, finished, ready-to-use campaign world.  Due to the generic nature of 
GURPS, the designers have decided to go with a Cyberpunk book that instead gives
lots of advice on how to build your _own_ world.  Of course, building a Cyberpunk
world will normally be less work than building a fantasy world--for instance, you
don't have to make up world maps, nations, and cultures; those are already all
around you today.  Just extrapolate and make up a little 'future history'.
	Or you could use any other published Cyberpunk gaming world as your
background.  I once did this with the Shadowrun world--just mixed in the standard
GURPS magic system and fantasy races--and it worked quite well.  
	About the GURPS system in general:  One of the things I like most about
it is the character generation system.  No dice are rolled; you get to design the
character that you want, buying abilities, special advantages, skills and so on
with a stated number of points.  You can also choose disadvantages, which give
you more points to spend on goodies.  
	The game is heavily skill-based, with skills falling into Mental and
Physical categories, and further described by difficulty (which affects how
expensive they are to purchase).  Skills are learned at specific skill levels,
and may (of course) be improved by experience.  All skill checks use a roll-3d6-
equal-to-or-lower-than-your-skill method to resolve success; skill bonuses and
penalties apply in many situations.  The combat system is well developed and
realistically deadly (especially if PCs and NPCs get to run around with hi-tech
futuristic weaponry).  There is currently a discussion on the net about the
one-second combat rounds used; it may be that some alterations to the system
are needed if you want to accurately simulate the confusion of realistic combat.
(The major complaint on the net is that the system allows characters to act like
cool-headed killing machines, getting the most out of every second, which results
in fights generally finishing withing 10 to 20 seconds.  If this is fine with you,
no problem).
	As I stated earlier, I would recommend GURPS Cyberpunk.  GURPS is my
favorite system in general, and I've played a few (more than you can count on
your fingers, unless you're a radically deformed mutant with a LOT of extra
appendages).  I've heard rumors about a possible 2nd edition GURPS Cyberpunk,
and there's also something called GURPS Cyberpunk Adventures which I really don't
know what is.  Does anyone else out there know?

	Whatever.  Now, for the SPOILERS about the adventure in the Cyberspace
Europe sourcebook:

































Are you sure you want to read this?



































OK, here goes.  I really didn't much care for that adventure, and the reasons why
I didn't are as follows: 

	It is based around the PCs' getting involved in the hunt for an ancient
Christian relic--the spear stabbed into Christ while he hung on the cross.
The accompanying legend tells that Christ spoke to the soldier who did this,
telling him something like 'You will be a soldier until I return.'
Now, this wouldn't really be a problem, if not for the fact that the adventure
treats this legend as fact--the spear DOES exist (and it has miraculous healing
powers).  Furthermore, the Roman soldier is still alive in 2090 (being over 2,000
years old); he is the most abnormal NPC I've ever seen in a published adventure.
He has combat abilites and skills in a quite different league than ANY other
character in the whole campaign world (2,000 years of soldiering result in huge
amounts of experience) AND it is completely impossible to kill him.  Ever.
(Unless, of course, the Second Coming arrives....:))
	Thus, this adventure postulates certain things about the truth in certain
religious documents, the existence and divinity of a certain person, and the 
existence of miraculous powers.  Certain things that I, for one, am not willing
to accept nor to use in a role-playing campaign set in a world which is otherwise
quite seriously based on real life.  Most particularly, I feel this is way out
of bounds in a cyberpunk game.  I guess that's all I have to say on this matter.

Leif the .sigless

Go on!  Flame me!  But tell me one thing first:  Do you feel lucky, punk?