HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: coren@speed.osf.org (Robert Coren)
Subject: Re: discrimination at CMU
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 16:06:58 GMT

In article <1e938tINNpgo@mizar.usc.edu>, adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
> In article <1992Nov16.195358.15986@oracle.us.oracle.com> 
> schiles@us.oracle.com writes:
> 
> > I've known and worked with *lots* of effiminate actors and there has
> > been and always will be roles for them.  Not necessarily "leading man"
> > roles, but characters roles in abundance.  I've seen some delicious,
> > quirky, and wonderful performances by effiminate actors, and the theater
> > would be a sadder place indeed if the drama schools began to turn out
> > homogenized leading men.  
> 
> Absolutely my feelings on the matter, too.  But I know one
> of the principles in this case, and the facts that have been
> presented so far are partial at best and do not take into
> consideration a whole host of other issues having to do
> with the change in adminstration that occured at the time 
> and the unwillingness of a number of students to adjust
> to a restructured program.

This is extremely interesting. Either I missed something, or you've
been holding out on us, Arne; this is the first indication *I've* seen
that you knew anything about this case apart from what Scott posted
here. Judging from the latter, it seemed to me at least plausible that
there was something extra-curricular going on here, and that gay men
had been singled out (in substantial numbers) as targets. Meanwhile,
you seemed to be arguing from general principles about the role of a
drama school and the actors enrolled in it, implying strongly that
your view of what had happened was based on the evidence *as Scott had
presented it*.

If you actually knew that the facts were otherwise, or incomplete as
presented, it might have saved a lot of mostly useless argument if you
had said so much earlier.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: coren@speed.osf.org (Robert Coren)
Subject: Re: Cheese-Louise
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 15:28:47 GMT

In article <1992Nov21.233426.17200@reed.edu>, nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:
> Mr. Coren writes:

Ahem. I guess I'm past the stage where I think "Mr. Coren" refers to
my father.

> >...oh. Well are we talking about your 21st (upcoming) or the year of
> >your birth? Gets different results, y'know.
> 
> Argh, I hate leap years. The upcoming year, not the year of my birth.

You'd hate 'em more if you'd been born three days earlier than you were.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: lazarus@wixer.cactus.org (Michael Lax)
Subject: "60 Minutes" report on ACT/UP
Organization: Real/Time Communications
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 00:50:11 GMT

Well, I just got through watching a well-done, informative story
about ACT/UP (done by Ed Bradley) - WOW!!  I was especially moved
by the closing:  he interviewed 3 PWAs, 2 male & 1 female, and asked
the two men at the end if they expected to see a cure before they
die.  They both answered no.  Not, I hope so, or maybe, or even
not likely - just NO.  The story showed the front-lines of CD -
how it's not ACT/UP members that are rude, but rather the police
and the government.  It showed how ACT/UP has lowered the prices
of drugs and sped FDA approval processes.  I have _never_ seen
such a positive portrayal of ACT/UP in the 'regular' media. 

If anyone knows the address and phone/fax no. to 60 minutes or CBS, PLEASE
post it.  They need to hear from us.
   _______________________                             _________________
   \        \            /  Michael Lax                |    ACT UP!    |
    \        \          /  12514 Esplanade St., #B     |  FIGHT BACK!  |
     \        \        /  Austin, Texas 78727-4409     |  FIGHT AIDS!  |
      \      / \      /  U.S.A.                        =================
       \    /   \    /  512.837.1596 (h), 512.836.9715 (fax) 
        \  /     \  /  email:  lazarus@wixer.cactus.org
Please,  \/       \/    
do not    \       /   "If same-gender sex is *supposedly* so horrible, 
feed or    \     /     then why does everyone MASTURBATE?" 
tease the   \   /    
straight     \ /      "Never let the bastards get you down"  
people.       V                      (or is that GO DOWN?)  

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: buckmr@vccnw05.its.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
Subject: Re: NGLTF Creating Change--My Experience
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 23:18:13 GMT

rkelly@pioneer.unm.edu (Robert Kelly) writes:

>NGLTF conference comments

>or

>How I got to L.A. and kissed Harry Hay

<summary deleted>

>Networking
>I went to see the computer people, where one member of the NGLTF requested how 
>we can educate each other via computers.  I met Ron Buckmire there, which is 
>now the fourth motss-keteer I have met outside of my own city.

You also met Bryan J. Blumberg at that Computer Networking network session.
I think there were a few other motsseurs [Glenn Burke, for example] that
were there but I don't think they post much.

-- 
vox:(518)-276-8910 fax:(518)-276-6920 buckmr@rpi.edu buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet
``No exam-cheating, pot-smoking, draft-dodging, privileged youth Vice-President
in a "Bush The Blamer" administration can speak with moral authority about
abandoned moral values and assuming personal responsibility.''--Jesse Jackson
From: scott@bbx.basis.com (Scott Amspoker)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: A fan letter (was Re: discrimination at CMU)
Date: 15 Nov 92 22:11:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: bbx.44
Organization: BASIS International, Ltd., Albuquerque NM USA

In article <1992Nov13.234140.120582@watson.ibm.com> nomad@watson.ibm.com (Lee `nomaD` Damon) writes:
>In article <1e0trhINNe5b@mizar.usc.edu> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
>>I received such a nice letter today.  I was particularly
>>charmed by this:  
>>[letter deleted]
>Amazingly enough, I got the same letter. 

Cool.  An e-mail form letter.

>What's funny is I've
>only once before been called a homophobe, and that was by
>(another) raving loonie. Here I am, arguing against the expulsion,
>but I'm still homophobic. 

Don't worry, I was once accused of being a left-wing communist and
a right-wing fascist in the period of a single week due to my
(consistant viewpoint) comments in one thread.

-- 
Scott Amspoker                       |    
Basis International, Albuquerque, NM |  Too bad ignorance isn't really
                                     |  bliss.  Then it could be outlawed.
scott@bbx.basis.com                  |
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Subject: Re: Colorado Memory Systems & Non-Discrimination
Organization: insert anything here
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 18:17:14 GMT

rogerk@queernet.org (Roger B.A. Klorese) writes:
>rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:
>>[s]he have, in light of the anti-discrimination policy and Co:2?

>Breach of promise, if a company's published policy is violated without being
>eliminated.

	Yes, but so what?  It still has "sexual orientation" in it,
which still makes it incapable of being taken to court.  If I read CO:2
correctly, the state can claim that it can't see a breach of contract
because the state cannot recognize contracts made over non-heterosexual
orientations.

	I think this is the fine line that needs to be defined by 
someone more in the know than you or I.

	I was hoping that someone in the legal-world had already 
done some sort of analysis...

BBC
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance)
Subject: Re: Sharing lettere (was: Letter from my Father)
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 00:36:46 GMT

Wow! Is this for real? Your friend is fabulous. Lucky pig.

(:))

--
John Dorrance        * Sexyfunky Motherfuckerdiva *   thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu

		I bet if you threw that ass into the air
			It'd turn into sunshine!
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch)
Subject: Re: Marky Mark and Calvin Klein
Organization: Advanced Decision Systems; a div of Booz, Allen & Hamilton
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 09:34:22 GMT

01klcampbell@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu (Kenton Campbell) wrote: 
->Take a chill pill, Agarrat.  He *is* hotter than molten lava, after all.

hon,  you've spent way too much time at, uh, ball state.  the real
world is much hotter than marky mark.  honest.

->Sounds to me like you just need to get a piece some time this century.

been there; done that.

--
# henry mensch / booz, allen & hamilton, inc.  / <henry@ads.com>
# "fight the real enemy."  -- sinead o'connor, and many others.
#     for information on the league for programming freedom, 
#                     write to lpf@uunet.uu.net
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: buckmr@vccnw05.its.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
Subject: Re: Gay Games contact info?
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 00:18:14 GMT

psp@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (P.S. Powledge) writes:


>Hello all,

>I'm looking for contact information for the '94 Gay Games, to be held 
>in New York City. Can anybody here give me a pointer? I'd prefer email,
>rather than a followup here.

For others who want to know:


Actually, there is info in the QRD on nifty.andrew.cmu.edu. Here it is:
an excerpt from /pub/QRD/qrd/info/unity94:

You can reach the Unity '94 people at:

        Unity '94
        P.O. Box 202
        Times Square Station
        New York, NY  10036



-- 
RON BUCKMIRE, 11 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735.  ***Clinton-Gore '92***
vox:(518)-276-8910 fax:(518)-276-6920 buckmr@rpi.edu buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet
0.5% of the U.S. population owns 48.4% of the assets. 1% owns 61.8% and 10%
owns 91.7%. -- Source: Arthur B. Kennickell,_ Demographics & Household Savings_
From: jf@threel.co.uk (John Fisher)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Support the boycott (was Re: Don't boycott all of Colorado)
Date: 23 Nov 92 12:59:44 GMT
Organization: 3L Ltd, 86/92 Causewayside, Edinburgh EH9 1PY, UK

In article <1992Nov20.003105.21842@col.hp.com>,
vanm@col.hp.com (Van Martin) writes:

>   "Hate what is evil" and according to my understanding of the Bible
>   (there it is - flame on!!!)  homosexuality is evil (NOTE:  NOT THE
>   HOMOSEXUAL).  "I will not condone what God seeks to redeem."  Dr.
>   Robert Oerter.  It only serves to confuse people to legalize bad
>   ideas.
> 
>   Also, "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge; fools
>   despise wisdom and instruction."  Prov.  1:7
> 
>   So, in my family, there are areas where fear and hate ARE family
>   values.

What baffles me is why anyone should take opinions like
these seriously.  And yet it seems that they were
influential enough to take over one of your great parties
of state. 

I've got a headache this evening and I'm not feeling
amusing or witty or charitable.  Look, you people over
there.  This quasi-religious nonsense is making you the
laughing-stock of the world.  Get your act together or be
giggled out of history, as the empire that abandoned itself
to lunatics. 

--John
From: Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Can anyone tell me about this TV show?
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 00:44:26 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <46014@ogicse.ogi.edu> <1992Nov17.162049.8726@spdcc.com>

Steve Dyer writes:
>markm@ogicse.ogi.edu (Mark Morrissey) writes:
>>It took years of cut and grow, cut and grow before I got my beard trained
>>to grow on demand.
>>The sad part is that I am such a little furnace
>>that I can't stand to wear it year round (not even in Butte, Montana
>>where "hot" is 85 degrees). 
>
>I can't figure this one out.  Have you considered the Sinead look?

Hmmm... I wouldn't take it *that* far... perhaps a short flattop?
Add that to a neatly-trimmed brick-red beard.... (*) Oh my, who
turned up the *HEAT* in here?

>Much cooler (most heat is lost thru the top of the head--trust me on
>this.)  I'm an original furnace but I don't find that a beard
>makes me feel hotter (well, THAT way.)  Is this a problem with sweat?

I'd be interested in the answer to this question as well.  ;-)
 
() Technological progress has merely provided us with more
() efficient means for going backwards.
()      -- Aldous Huxley
()         "Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow," 1956
-----
[> George D. Madison | NBCS: B8f+t+w-e+s+k+a!cv | Just say NO to razors! <]
[> It's a BEAR thing -- you wouldn't understand. <|> furr@cup.portal.com <]
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rhayden@oracle.com (Ronald Hayden)
Subject: Re: Thugsy twins to run against each other!
Organization: Oracle Corporation, Belmont, Ca.
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 22:12:00 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <1ebcukINN27k@morrow.stanford.edu> AH.PBL@forsythe.stanford.edu (Mark) writes:

   In article <RHAYDEN.92Nov14150853@hqsun2.oracle.com>,
   rhayden@oracle.com (Ronald Hayden) writes:
   >I don't know, I thought Herschonsohn was amazingly candid.  He said he
   >wanted to get rid of the dept of education, believes the school
   >breakfast program is a plot to destroy the family, wants MORE defense
   >spending, believes anyone should be able to carry an uzi anywhere, etc
   >etc etc....
   >
   >How much more candid could he be about his real agenda?

     These were things that the Boxer campaign brought to
   the attention of the voter.  Herschie didn't advertise
   these ideas himself.  He spent his campaign money telling
   us that he would run his own elevator in the Senate and
   pay for his own parking at the airport.  Of course, he was
   spending $5000.00 for each 30 second TV commercial to say this...

Well, Hersch didn't do ADS on those things, but he did say them in
public, on talk shows, and during appearances.  He wasn't hiding his
point of view (at least on those things).

--

  - Ronald Hayden

    ----------------------------------------------------------------
   | Documentation Manager, Oracle Toolkit Group                    |
   | Co-chair of Oracle Lambda, Oracle's Gay/Lesbian/Bisexual group |
   | Writer, magician, and various other things                     |
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: murphy@well.sf.ca.us (Daniel A. Murphy)
Subject: Re: Tom Brokaw, boy idiot
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 10:46:53 GMT



> Tom Brokaw

Wasn't it he, a couple of decades ago, who interviewed a gay man and
asked if, when he applied for a drivers' license, he checked the box
for male or the box for female?
-- 
-------------------
Daniel A. Murphy        Net:         murphy@well.sf.ca.us
San Francisco, CA       GEnie:       D.MURPHY11
U.S.A.                  MCI Mail:    377-7947
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Cheese-Louise
Date: 20 Nov 92 02:54:49 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Nov20.025449.6667
Reply-To: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

In article <1992Nov19.154332.24499@osf.org> coren@speed.osf.org (Robert Coren) writes:
>Sim asks:
>>Nelson!  How could you possibly have forgotten the mangoes?

I didn't forget the mangoes, I was just hoping someone else would
remember :-)

>From what I hear, I don't think the scene with the mangoes could be
>replayed in the same fashion in March. Not comfortably, anyway.

I think I could manage a repeat, although it'd probably be better if I
were inside. Anyone have a bathtub that seats 10, or maybe just a big
shower? I suppose I could borrow Reed's locker room..
                __
nelson@reed.edu \/                   There is absolutely no other possibility
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: bjb@macsch.com (Bryan J. Blumberg)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Dannemeyer... he's back...
Date: 16 Nov 92 18:38:49 GMT
Organization: Systems Integration Branch
X-Xxdate: Mon, 16 Nov 92 18:37:32 GMT
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d9

In article <_qv1a3p@rpi.edu> Ron Buckmire, buckmr@marcus.its.rpi.edu
writes:
>What is also cool is that Bob Dornan, another Flate Earth conservative,
says
>he is interested in the Seat. I think Feinstein is probably going to
resign 
>it and run against Pete  again, what do yu think?

I was kind of hoping that Feinstein would run to keep her senate seat
while Kathleen Brown-Rice would run for Governor.

========================================
Bryan  J. Blumberg, The MacNeal-Schwendler Corporation
815 Colorado Boulevard, Los Angeles, California  90041-1777
(213) 259-4914, B_BLUMBERG@MACSCH.COM
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: lovegod@wam.umd.edu (Donald Andrew Agarrat)
Subject: Re: Rap (Yes, you're still in soc.motss)
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 13:22:12 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.173227.12601@sei.cmu.edu>  
dbidwa@sei.cmu.edu (Daniel Bidwa) writes:
} lovegod@wam.umd.edu (Donald Andrew Agarrat) sez:
} >Most Gay men don't like legitimate rap.
} 
} Probably true (although this could have something to do with 
} the "he winked at me so I beat him up" Audio Two style 
} bullshit that keeps floating around the harder rap genres). 
} Hardcore rap does tend to be insular; the casually interested 
} white gay man (or lesbian) is probably not going to get a lot 
} of exposure to it, so s/he's not likely to know of anyone 
} besides, say, Public Enemy or NWA.

You miss my point.  I wasn't focusing on hardcore rap, just  
legitimate rap.  Native Tongue is legitimate, but hardly  
hardcore.  By the way, what ever happened to Audio Two.  For a  
lot of Black people, rap provides more than just "casual"  
entertainment.  I myself look out for artist who promote  
homophobia and misogyny.  I pick out the rotten apples before  
they spoil the bunch.  I'm hardly defending the whole world of  
rap, but I see it as a very important art form of my people.

} >I don't think any White man can be a legitimate rapper.
} 
} Phooey. If anything, I think that the genre tends to ostracize 
} any rapper who isn't black (and, to a lesser extent, male) -- 
} look at all the trouble 3rd Bass, or Kid Frost, or any of a 
} few hundred female rappers have had getting any acceptance 
} from the larger community. (Are there any professed gay 
} rappers? I don't know of any.)

Just in case you didn't notice, I kinda contradicted myself in  
the last post.  I mentioned MC Serch as a legitimate rapper who  
is White.  Hardly the rule, but a nice exception.

} >It sickens me to see White people like Marky Mark and Vanilla
} >Ice "White-satize"* rap music just to make it more palatable
} >for the White masses.  But, rappers like Hammer and Young MC 
} >have just helped them along.
} 
} But the white masses are hardly the only people buying Hammer 
} records.

"Can't Touch This" was at least 100 times better than "Ice Ice  
Baby".  And the work Hammer does in his community justifies it  
.. Vanilla Ice was just in to get his.  Hardly a comparison ...

Donald - It's time for some action!
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: clc8347@tamu.edu (Cheryl Cato)
Subject: Re: Letter from my father
Reply-To: clc8347@tamu.edu
Organization: Texas A&M University
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 16:19:23 GMT

In article 23339@oracle.us.oracle.com, dgilly@us.oracle.com (Daniel Gilly) writes:
***Yesterday I received a long, surprisingly personal letter from my
***father, who has recently returned from 5 months in Europe.  I 
***thought I would share the relevant part of it, since
***the topics raised might be of interest to many people here.
***

[letter and comments "filed" for future reference]

If I were to receive this letter from either of my parents, I'd probably drop
dead from disbelief.  Now - this is not to say that my parents have never
thought about me/it -- it's just too taboo to discuss.  We get along ok now.
This has not always been the case -- but their anger (mostly - almost 
exclusively - my Mom's) was vented in other ways.  Never a discussion
of the actual subject.   My partner is welcome in their home.  (They found
it was the only way to get *me* in their home.)  They have even been to
our home - which in itself is monumental.  The biggest strides I *ever*
made with my Mom was when we sat and watched "Our Sons" - at
_her_ suggestion!  The only comment she made during the movie was
when one Mom suggested that the other Mom would prefer her son have
cancer instead of being gay.

At any rate - I'd have to say that our relationship is better than a lot I know 
of.  Kind of like - "if you can't say anything nice.....".  I still get worn out
every time I make the mistake of even mentioning the name of a male-type
person in a friendly way - and watching her face light up and the enthusiasm
grow - then I get to listen to her babble on with questions about "him".  I just
wish she'd get this excited about the things *I* love.

Be as kind, thoughtful and understanding with your Dad as you can possibly
be.  I think you're a lucky guy.  Silence is deafening.


Cheryl Cato
Texas A&M University
Workstation Support
cheryl.cato@tamu.edu

---
 -
From: cbe@unlinfo.unl.edu (cbe)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Ins and Outs
Date: 17 Nov 1992 17:24:40 GMT
Organization: University of Nebraska--Lincoln	
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: unlinfo.unl.edu

anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:


>In article <1992Nov16.185553.16402@PacBell.COM>
>rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams) writes:

>>[George Stephanopoulos is ] also 31-years-old and single.

>My gaydar hasn't been calibrated recently, but the level
>reads pretty high on Mr. Stephanopouplos.  On the other
>hand, it didn't go blip on Pete Williams, so go figure.


Well.....Mr. Stephanopoulos at least has the correct genetic heritage 
......do you suppose he would pose for being a figure on an Attic urn? 

Colburn Eigen (who immediately began speculations of Mr. S's 
proclivities upon first fascinated sighting....)

H|u> = E|u>
Xref: sparky soc.motss:47689 alt.politics.homosexuality:7244
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: Colorado Amendment 2: The First Fatality
Date: 16 Nov 92 01:04:27 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Nov16.010427.18907
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <BxrywE.B2B@queernet.org> rogerk@QueerNet.ORG (Roger B.A. Klorese) writes:
>Richard Feynmann may have been a brilliant scientist, but he was also an
>unenlightened, sexist, bigoted, egocentric asshole.  Appealing to him as a
>spiritual model leaves one more than a little short in the humanity department.

Well, Feynman had his foibles as much as any of us.  He was a product of his
time, and it's certainly the case that he seemed to ignore the women in his
life in his memoirs; that is, relegate them to the periphery.  On the other
hand, there's a lot about him which was pretty neat, especially his end-
lessly curious mind.  If he was unenlightened, it wasn't always from lack
of trying (I mean, doing ketamine in an isolation tank isn't the mark of
a conservative.)  And bright people often are accused of being egocentric. :-)
Do you know of stuff from other sources?

Not that I think a doofus quoting Feynman does justice to either of them.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: soc.motss,rec.pets.cats
From: cc4507@u.cc.utah.edu (Chucki Carpinello)
Subject: Re: gayfolk and cats
Organization: University of Utah Computer Center Student Mail Machine
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 92 02:31:52 GMT

>
>Tell me about it.  I definitely let my cat pick out my boyfriends.  I would
>not want someone who abused my cat around me.  I have had people tell me that
>I am crazy because of this.  I feel that my cat is part of my family and I am
>not going to have him all put out because of someone who doesn't like him!!!
>

I love cat's, but I dont let them pick my boyfriends.. ;-=)
Cats are lovey animals..  and people who abuse them are sick, and twisted 
in my eyes..

From..
me


-- 
Chucki Carpinello --------------------------------------------------------
		  Chucki.Carpinello@M.cc.Utah.EDU  <=>  chucki@acm.rpi.edu
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
	"I have nothing to say....So I won't."