HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: aahz@netcom.com (Mean Green Dancing Machine)
Subject: Re:  Science and god:  Are they incompatible?  If so, why?
Organization: Don't blame me, I voted for Bill 'n' Opus
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 06:28:03 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.043643.16303@muddcs.claremont.edu> dgreen@jarthur.claremont.edu (David Green) writes:
>
>I don't follow this point at all.  I consider atheism and agnosticism to be
>religions in that they are a series of beliefs about God.  I suppose that
>the way I use it is to a degree synonymous with 'philosophy,' though I don't
>think that's exactly the word I want in this case.

Nope.  You could consider 'atheism' and 'agnosticism' to be religious
beliefs, but without structure or religious practices they can't be an
actual religion.
-- 
                         --- Aahz (the *other* Dan Bernstein)
                             @netcom.com 

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6

Trying to be happy is like trying to build a machine for which the only
specification is that it should run noiselessly.
From: lydick@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Speaker-to-Minerals)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re:  Science and god:  Are they incompatible?  If so, why?
Date: 17 Nov 1992 20:40:28 GMT
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
Distribution: world
Reply-To: lydick@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu

In article <1992Nov17.104524.14274@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu>, jwwalden@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu (P'relan) writes:
=Secondly, what does omnipotent mean?  I think you'd probably exclude
=logical contradictions and I'd include violating the physical laws (the
=actual natural laws which are not isomorphic to our current conception
=of them).  Even if God could violate physical laws, I can't see that
=there ever would be a need to do so.  If you, as an omnipotent and omni-
=scient being, want to crush the evil king with a rock from the skies, you
=don't have to throw the rock yourself, but forseeing all these events in
=advance, you initialize your universe so that the orbit of a meteor happens
=to intersect the Earth exactly as to fall on the king at the precise time
=you want to do so.

Actually, there's no guarantee that this is possible.  It's possible that the
only ways you could get the meteor to fall at that place and time would've had
other effects that prevented the king from being there, from being the king, or
from being evil.
From: JBrandt@AAA.UOregon.EDU (Jay Brandt (Jason))
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: True Thomas
Followup-To: alt.callahans
Date: 23 Nov 1992 20:26:25 GMT
Organization: University of Oregon, Architecture
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: aaa.uoregon.edu

In article <1992Nov21.135325.451@news.wesleyan.edu>,
DPERRY@eagle.wesleyan.edu (DAVID M. PERRY) wrote:
> 
> 
> In <1992Nov18.171704.14309@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu> mfbertke@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu writes:
> 
> 
> >      Who else out there likes Celtic music?
> > 
> 
> After Jamming for a while, Jack says,
> 	"I just figured out a guitar part to Danny Carnahan's version of "True
> Thomas.  I want to try it, so here goes....
> 
<He plays>
> 
> --the guitar slowly fades away---
> 
> 
> "Thank you"


Jason listens and smiles. "Thank -you- jack, that was well done indeed."
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: Science and god:  Are they incompatible?  If so, why?
From: seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu (Sea Wasp)
Date: 16 Nov 92 04:59:57 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh
Originator: seawasp@unixd1.cis.pitt.edu

In article <1e791lINNo0v@phakt.usc.edu> pechever@phakt.usc.edu (Paul Echeverri) writes:
>"An entire novel, actually--Heinlein's _Number of the Beast_.  Fictons are
>out there, folks.  And as for scientists believing or not in fictons: the 
>concept hardly applies to science, it has no contact with it, much like
>religion; fictons are irrelevant to science, neither hindering nor helping.
>Objective reality, now: THAT's an amusing concept."

	The Sea Wasp, recently having been mostly reduced to a transparent
and rather dusty outline, phases into a temporary VR state.

	"Nonobjective reality is a lot more amusing. My standard retort
to those who think Reality is a matter of opinion:
	"Those who think Reality is a matter of opinion are invited to
debate the matter with an oncoming bullet. The bullet's answer will be
swift, decisive, and utterly final."

	"If fictons were real -- in the sense of a fiction being able
to create a reality, or modify it -- they would be of extreme importance
to science. After all, this would mean that writing fiction could change
physical laws if that was the main thrust of the fiction... and, as anyone
who's read the "Robert MacEl- whatever " postings on subjects like 
"Larsonian Physics" and "Free Energy machines" on sci.skeptic and other
newsgroups can attest, such fiction is widely available." The Wasp smiles
wryly. "Since the laws of physics are still behaving as expected, I
must conclude that fictons are, er, fiction." He releases his glass, which
remains suspended in midair.  However, after a quick glare from the Wasp,
the offending glass falls, obligingly, sideways into the fireplace.


	"By the way, to Nicarra and several others, Happy Birthday --
I'm busy, as you may have guessed, and very rushed. 

	"Congratulations, GGriffon!"

                                 Sea Wasp
                                   /^\
                                   ;;;
From: lydick@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Speaker-to-Minerals)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: Democracy
Date: 15 Nov 1992 22:35:04 GMT
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
Distribution: world
Reply-To: lydick@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu

In article <RANDOLPH.92Nov15131712@cognito.ebay.Sun.COM>, randolph@cognito.ebay.Sun.COM (Randolph Fritz) writes:
="Heinline had an enormous impact on politics through his writing.  He
=did make a difference.  I think Heinline started out believing that
=our democratic government could express the best of the USA.  As you
=say, Michael, he became disillusioned, yet secretly, I think, he went
=on hoping that our government could express the best of us, even while
=watching it do no such thing.

Well, I just special-ordered the book from a local book store.  Should arrive
Thursday.

="A number of groups have been organizing modern summaries and methods
=of politics.  The League of Women Voters even ran a 'take back the
=system' drive.  On the liberal side I know of the League, Public
=Citizen (led by Ralph Nader), and Common Cause.  There's a
=conservative group whose name escapes me--their leader was interviewed
=on Fresh Air with Ralph Nader--politics still makes strange
=bedfellows!  And there's the neutral Center for National Independence
=in Politics--Project Vote Smart."

The question is, how many of these actually address politics as it IS rather
than as they'd like it to be?  Nader's organization, at least, seems to
understand realpolitik, unfortunately.
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: maryb@cix.compulink.co.uk (Mary Branscombe)
Subject: Re: Robin Williamson
Reply-To: maryb@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 15:01:00 +0000


excellent!
Mary is laughing so hard she has to sit down
I enjoyed than an ocelot too. Oh deer, I'll just have to sit here 
quietly until the mewed passes and I can flit bat to Rowna's tea 
table
+-------------------------------------------+--------------------------+
| Ommmmmm, said the lift                    |maryb@cix.compulink.co.uk |
| Organisation: Me? You're joking, right?   |maryb@cix.compulink.uucp  |
|I know I type "teh" for "the" My fingers have their own accent ;-)    |
+-------------------------------------------+--------------------------+

Organization: Psychology, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
From: rkoch@lonestar.utsa.edu (Ruth M. Koch)
Subject: Re: Rejoice, and Velvet reels
Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 03:14:29 GMT

>     Who else out there likes Celtic music?
>
>                              -Velvet

Nathan jumps to his feet.

  "Me!  It's my favorite music.  At the moment, I'm on a
  Tannahill Weavers kick.

Just then, Radio Free Colorado starts up...

My name is Jamie Rayburn
 in Glasow I was born.
From my place of habitation
 I'm forced to leave at dawn.
From my place of habitation
 it's I must gang awa,
Far frae the bonnie hills and dales
 of Caledonia.

It was early on one morning,
 just by the break of day.
The turnkey he came to us,
 and unto us did say.
"Arise you hapless convicts,
 arise you one and all,
This is the day you are to stray,
 from Caledonia."

We all that rose, put on our clothes,
 our hearts were full of grief.
Our friends who stood around the coach,
 could grant us no reprive.
Our parents, wives and sweethearts too,
 their hearts were broke in twa,
To see us leave the hills and dales,
 of Caledonia.

Farewell my dearest mother,
 give vex for what I've done.        <-- I think I have this line wrong,
I hope none cast up to you,              but for the life of me I can't
 the race that I have run.               figure it out.
I hope God will protect you,
 when I am far awa,
Far frae the bonnie hills and dales,
 of Caledonia.

Farewell my honest faether,
 you were the best of men.
And likewise mine sweetheart,
 yes Catherine is her name.
No more we'll walk by Clyde's clear stream,
 nor by the bromielough,                      <--- sp?
For I must leave the hills and dales,
 of Caledonia.

My name is Jamie Raeburn,
 in Glasgow I was born.
From my place of habitation,
 I'm forced to leave at dawn.
From my place of habitation,
 it's I must gang awa,
Far frae the bonnie hills and dales
 of Caledonia.

   --"Jamie Raeburn's Farewell"  by the Tannahill Weavers.
     (I would have more info about who wrote it, but I can't
     find the tape at the moment.)
     Apologies if I misremembered any lyrics, I also can't spel.

Hugs and all that.

Nathan.                 | This is the situation:  I'm R.Koch's brother.  I use
rkoch@lonestar.utsa.edu | her Lonestar account, with her permission.  I use
or njones@nyx.cs.du.edu | the Nyx account for private stuff, and to post.
                        | (Unless I'm in a hurry to post, or just too lazy...)

-- 
Nathan                   | Giovanni di Cellili    | Nathan Jones
rkoch@lonestar.utsa.edu  | Bjornsborg,            | San Antonio,
R.Koch's brother         | Ansteorra  A.S. XXVII  | Texas, USA.
or try  njones@nyx.cs.du.edu
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: li@Data-IO.COM (Phyllis Rostykus)
Subject: Re: A Little Light
Organization: Data I/O Corporation
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 22:30:14 GMT

In article <keulen.722404425@possum> keulen@possum.csu.murdoch.edu.au (Mike van Keulen) writes:
>
>Splash wanders up to the bar, puts down a 2 dollar coin and asks Mike:
>"I'll have a long black coffee, and another espresso for Liralen; make 'em
>hot - I'm not sure how long until she wakes up."  Taking the brightly
>coloured recycling mugs he walks over to where Liralen is sleeping quietly
>and sets the mugs down gently on the table.  Sitting himself down, Splash
>watches the slowly fading light in the hemisphere, smiling to himself, as
>he awaits Liralen's wakening.

By the flickering light of the fire, she sleeps soundly, deeply.  For this
Place is a 'safeplace'.  One of the few she has known thoroughly.  So safe,
she has slept in two strange houses as a result of it, and had no
nightmares, no unease, even to the turning of her back for someone that she
should have been frightened of.

The scent of the espresso lays its richness on the air, or is it the
presence of Splash! ?  As it touches her nose, her eyes open.  She lies
still, only her eyes moving, at first, to see where it is that she is,
what it is that is happening.  It is a trained wakening, to be quiet,
utterly still on waking.  At seeing Splash watching the light in the
hemisphere she smiles and then moves a little to alert him of her waking.
Then softly, "Hi." She blinks at the brightly coloured mugs and says,
"Wow." and sits up in the chair.  She breaths in a great big breath, her
eyes closing simply at the pleasure of breathing and stretches.  Then, with
a smile still softened by sleep, she says, "Hiya.  How you doin'?"

-- 
Liralen Li           | "... and how you feel can make it real  | - _US_
aka Phyllis Rostykus | Real as anything you've seen            |   Peter
li@Data-IO.com       | Get a life with this dreamer's dream."  |   Gabriel
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: nev@Turing.ORG (Niles E. VanDenburg)
Subject: Science and goose-hugs:  Are they compatible?  If so, which way?
Organization: The Turing Project, Charlottesville Virginia.
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 21:06:27 GMT

In article <memo.756718@cix.compulink.co.uk> maryb@cix.compulink.co.uk writes:

>She looks around to see if anyone wants an "it's turning in to a goos 
>week after all" hug

I could definitely use a weak goose hug or for that matter a strong
goose-hug - its been a very long time since I was lovingly goosed
<sigh>.


>
>mary
>apprentice potter
>+-------------------------------------------+--------------------------+
>| Ommmmmm said the lift                     |maryb@cix.compulink.co.uk |
>|                                           |maryb@cix.compulink.uucp  |
>+-------------------------------------------+--------------------------+
>


-- 
Niles VanDenburg
nev@turing.org
niles_v@cho000.cho.ge.com
niles_v@cho000.dnet.ge.com
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: /G=Rhodri/S=James/O=SJ-Research/ADMD=INTERSPAN/C=GB/@mhs-relay.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Another introduction...
Organization: Yale CS Mail/News Gateway
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 18:13:59 GMT

mjmh@crsa.bu.edu (Michael J M Holmes) writes:

>"The first science fiction book I remember picking up was a trilogy
>by John Christopher - I think the first book was 'THe City of Gold
>and Lead' or something like that.  This was sometime in early grade
>school.  I was fascinated by it, though, and picked up everything of
>his the library had - then moved on to Bradbury, then Asimov... 
>by then I was hooked!"

"The White Mountain", "City of Gold and Lead", and -- darn, what is the
third one called.  John Christopher's "Tripods" trilogy, whatever.  "The
White Mountain" might easily be the first SF I read as well, I certainly
read it as a pre-teen.  I might have started on my father's collection of
John Wyndham before that...

---
Windsinger  -  Rhodri James    *  "If music be the food of love,
                               *   play me a tune on your jam buttie."
Rhodri.James%gb.INTERSPAN.sj   *
            @mhs-relay.ac.uk   *           -- Ken Dodd
   or                          *
rmj10@phx.cam.ac.uk            *
From: lydick@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Speaker-to-Minerals)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re:  Science and god:  Are they incompatible?  If so, why?
Date: 18 Nov 1992 20:13:51 GMT
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
Distribution: world
Reply-To: lydick@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu

In article <1992Nov18.175125.12880@midway.uchicago.edu>,
mss2@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Michael S. Schiffer) writes: 
=In article <memo.756718@cix.compulink.co.uk> maryb@cix.compulink.co.uk writes:
=
=>Current state of the churches - the Catholic church is still (as fas 
=>I know) saying that you shouldn't use a condom even to stop AIDS. 
=>This can kill people.
=
=	"To be fair, they're hardly saying that people should go
=around having unprotected sex.  Their line is that the main point of
=sex is procreation within a monogamous marriage, and that sex which is
=_not_ directed towards that is sinful.

StM corrects him, "I'm afraid you're a bit out of date, Michael.  The new
catechism (released a couple of days ago; so far the only version is in French)
allows that sex for pleasure within a marriage is not a sin, if done in
moderation.  At least that's what the newspaper article I read about it says."

=So, yes, to use a condom in
=sex is a sin by that reasoning, since clearly such an activity could
=have no procreative purpose.

"However, despite allowing that sex for pleasure need not be a sin, the
catechism STILL makes use of artificial birth control devices a sin.  So I'm
afraid that the Roman Catholic Church doesn't seem to be quite as reasonable as
you want them to seem."

=However, I suspect that it would be
=regarded as a greater sin to knowingly put another at risk for disease
=in the first place.  Basically, Catholic doctrine _already_ classes
=any activity in which a condom would save lives as being sinful on its
=face, so I don't entirely understand how the additional prohibition of
=condoms themselves should have any effect.

"As I said, if the newspaper stories are accurate, then your information is out
of date."

=The participants have,
=after all, already chosen to engage in something sinful under Catholic
=doctrine-- and in fact I don't know whether Catholic belief
=distinguishes _at all_ between fornication using contraception and
=fornication without.  I'd guess that it's all lumped in, along with
=masturbation, oral sex, and other nonprocreative or nonmarital
=instances of sex, as the misuse of sexuality.

"Non-procreative and non-marital are two entirely different adjectives, and the
new catechism DOES distinguish between them."
From: lydick@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Speaker-to-Minerals)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: Black Death Birthdays (Recipe Included)
Date: 20 Nov 1992 04:23:15 GMT
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
Distribution: world
Reply-To: lydick@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu

In article <1992Nov20.001911.9314@ucc.su.OZ.AU>, mar@physics.su.OZ.AU (David Mar) writes:
>"That's great, except I still don't know what a bundt pan is, because I
>don't know what a tube pan is, and don't really know what an angel's-food
>cake is like.

>"Still," DM raises a finger in an effort to show he's not a complete
>idiot, "I'm going to try Merri's recipe this weekend, using whatever cake
>tin I have available. I assume a tube pan is a short, fat cylinder with
>a flat base.

StM says, "Er, no.  Let's see.  It would probably be asking to much to hope
that you know what a pineapple upside-down cake looks like?  That's another
kind of cake you bake in a tube pan.  Ok, let's try for a physical description:
Take an upside-down hollow truncated cone, about cylindrical pan, about 9
inches in diameter at the top, about 6 inches in diameter at the bottom, and
about 6 inches high.  In the middle of this, put a truncated right-side-up
hollow cone, about 6 inches high, 3 inches in diameter at the  base and about
1.5 inches in diameter at the top.  Connect the bottoms of the conical frustra
with a flat bottom.  What you've got is a pan with a tube sticking up throught
the middle of the bottom of it (the reason we use conical frustra rather than
cylinders is that this makes it easier to get the cake out of the pan in one
piece).  That's a tube pan.  Now, scale it down a little bit, scallop the
outside, and round off the bottom, and you've got a bundt pan.  You can't
easily substitute a regular cake pan for it, unfortunately.  They've got
different volumes, and different surface-to-volume ratios.  This means that
proper oven temperature and baking time are going to be different.  If you're
quite experienced at baking cakes, then it might be reasonable to try using a
regular cake pan, adjusting the temp and time according to your previous baking
experiences.  But if you're not that experienced, you could end up with
something that resembles something you'd put in the bar-b-cue and light more
than it does a cake.

>I'll probably use something like that. Watch out for the
>success reports from a chocolate-bloated DM!"

Good luck with it.
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: mar@physics.su.OZ.AU (David Mar)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re:  Science and god:  Are they incompatible?  If so, why?
Date: 17 Nov 92 03:51:22 GMT
Organization: School of Physics, University of Sydney, Australia

> [Space Cadet:]
>He pulls out a large number of small brass coins. "Here, Mike, get STM,
>and Nightstalker, and anyone else I may have offended what they want.
>There's probably a long list."

Danger Mouse frowns. "Drat. I guess I have to pay for my own drink. A
cold glass of milk, please, Mike."

 - Danger Mouse.
From: "-=[SLS]=-" <ssalter@silver.ucs.indiana.edu>
Subject: vampire posts !
Content-Type: text
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 01:02:11 GMT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL0]
Content-Length: 241       

	Sorry to waste bandwidth but a very nice lady who reads
Callahans was emailing me concerning the Vampire stories I was writing
around Halloween. I apologize but I somehow lost your address...PLEASE
email me , I have more written...

Steven
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: maryb@cix.compulink.co.uk (Mary Branscombe)
Subject: Re: No subject
Reply-To: maryb@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 18:17:00 +0000


I notice my postings come out with no subject - sorry about that, I 
think it's my OLR (remember those echoes? This 
string-and-tin-can-setup ain't tamed yet) That was "up and down, 
round and round" when it left me! I'll see if I can sort that out...
Castellan - glad to help! Have a hug back!
I *do* like this place. Even when we charge around on our soap-boxes 
and tread on each other's feet, it always feels friendly and warm and 
*nice* Bet we can even get some back-rub sessions going here...
Mary is definitely in a good mood now - thanks Castellan!

can I ask? *Why* do you put spam onto a rope? And what do you *do* 
with it then? (I *think* I want to know!)

+-------------------------------------------+--------------------------+
| Ommmmmm, said the lift                    |maryb@cix.compulink.co.uk |
| Organisation: Me? You're joking, right?   |maryb@cix.compulink.uucp  |
|I know I type "teh" for "the" My fingers have their own accent ;-)    |
+-------------------------------------------+--------------------------+

Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: li@Data-IO.COM (Phyllis Rostykus)
Subject: Re: God and Science:  The Ramblings of The Nightstalker
Organization: Data I/O Corporation
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 17:49:43 GMT

In article <1ea09rINNolh@gap.caltech.edu> lydick@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU writes:
>In article <1992Nov17.012155.27920@news.Hawaii.Edu>, mwasson@minnie.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Michael Wasson) writes:
>="Hmm.  One argument I've heard against moral relativism goes like this:
>=
>=If I say, 'I believe the world is flat,' that's a *claim* that the
>=world is, in fact, flat.  You wouldn't say 'I believe the world is
>=flat but I'm wrong.'  Moral relativists seem to be saying something
>=quite like that in the realm of normative truths.  'I personally 
>=believe that X is wrong, though it may not be wrong for somebody else'
>=is just like saying 'I believe the world is flat but it may not be
>=flat for somebody else'.  By this argument, moral relativism is not
>=distinct from moral nihilism -- itself a consistent enough position if
>=you care to adopt it, but one most moral relativists would (I think)
>=shy away from."
>
>Well, if we're going to argue by analogy without presenting arguments as to why
>the analogies might be valid, try this one:
>	I believe injecting 22 units of insulin every morning is good, but it
>	might not be good for somebody else.
>OK, now we've got one analogy proving that moral relativism is silly, and one
>analogy proving that moral relativism is well-grounded.
>
>Either that or we've got an example of why arguing by analogy doesn't work.

Liralen giggles, "Especially when neither analogy contains a moral situation."

--
Liralen Li
li@Data-IO.com
Newsgroups: alt.callahans