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Date:         Fri, 2 Oct 1992 13:46:15 CST
              <CIRCPLUS@IDBSU.BITNET>
From:         Danny Wilson <wilsond@LIB.UCSF.EDU>
Subject: Re: Staplers, Kleenex and Hole-Punchers

>> and pencils (these are horrible short golf pencils that no one
>> wants to take---we get them for free).

>Where do you get the "free" golf pencils ?  We would offer pencils (or,
>at least, let them have one if they asked !) to our patrons if we could
>get them at no cost.

The reprographics department here on campus supplies us with these for free
(I don't know why, except that they do have their name & # on them--maybe
they think of it as advertising?).
Danny J. Wilson
UCSF Library
(415) 476-5579
wilsond@knowman.lib.ucsf.edu
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Date:         Mon, 5 Oct 1992 09:45:46 EDT
              <CIRCPLUS@IDBSU.BITNET>
From:         Carol Goodson/West GA College <CGOODSON@UGA.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: MLS

On Thu, 1 Oct 1992 20:42:00 EDT <GEFFNER@SJC> said:
>In the past our circulation librarian had an MLS.  However, eventually
>the job was given to me (a general asst. with 4 years experience).  Why?
>I suppose cost and the decreasing importance of the specialized library
>training.  After all, when you are busy waiting on patrons, running a
>reserve room, handling copiers, training student workers, and answering
>the phone, how much cataloging and reference work do you do?  I suppose
>too with cost cutting being so important in a non-income generating unit,
>paying a few thousand more for a professional doesn't make much sense.

****I agree with this...in fact, I would think that being a Circulation
Librarian would be frustrating for an MLS person...my first professional
position (20+ years ago!) was as Reserve Librarian for a large university....
Once some procedural/administrative problems were solved, I found it very
dull, because it basically ran itself...when I left, I recommended that I
be replaced by my immediate subordinate, a talented clerk....they accepted
my advice, and it worked extremely well...plus saved several thousand dollars.

..................................................................
| Carol Goodson, Coordinator/Off-Campus Library Services         |
| Ingram Library, West Georgia College                           |
| Carrollton  GA  30118                                          |
| PHONE: (706) 830-2360   FAX: (706) 836-6626                    |
| BITNET: cgoodson@uga    INTERNET: cgoodson@uga.cc.uga.edu      |
| COMPUSERVE: 70253,1146            cgoodson@sun.cc.westga.edu.  |
..................................................................
 The difference between the Democrats and the Republicans is that
 while the Democrats remind you that life isn't fair, the
 Republicans make sure it isn't.
...................................................................
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Date:         Wed, 30 Sep 1992 13:36:02 EDT
              <CIRCPLUS@IDBSU.BITNET>
From:         Ruth Shaw <RSWX@CORNELLC.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Thank-you

I worked in an elementary school library before becoming circ/billing/
reserve/personnel/( and then ) administrative supervisor.  It was the perfect
background.

Ruth Shaw
Administrative Supervisor
Physical Sciences Library
From: 1LICXH@UTSAVM1.BITNET (Chris Hanson/UTSA)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.circplus
Subject: Re: IDs
Date: 2 Oct 92 16:20:33 GMT
              <CIRCPLUS@IDBSU.BITNET>
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

The University of Texas at San Antonio uses the SS# as its ID, and we have
only a couple of problems with it...  The UTSA police issue ID's here ...

I don't want you to use my SSN --  Resolved by issuing the patron a fake
number.  This, by the way, has been the subject of a couple of articles on
the possibile invasion of privacy, and some businesses are changing from using
ssn's to creating their own numbers.

Foreign students who are given a temporary ssn until they apply for and receive
a real one. -- The ID Office tells them not to have their ID's made until they
get the final ssn, but they need it to operate on campus, so some of them do it
anyway.  Then, when they get their "real" ssn, it costs them $$$ to have a new
ID made, and so they try to get by with the old one, which has an invalid ssn
on it, and our NOTIS system doesn't like it.

Not all circulation systems will accept ssn's as ID numbers.

Otherwise, it hasn't been a problem.

Chris Hanson
Access Services
The University of Texas at San Antonio
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Date:         Mon, 5 Oct 1992 10:11:25 EDT
              <CIRCPLUS@IDBSU.BITNET>
From:         Carol Goodson/West GA College <CGOODSON@UGA.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Change at the desk
              2 Oct 1992 15:58:50 U from
              <joanne_leary@QMRELAY.MAIL.CORNELL.EDU>

We have a change machine too, but it is VERY particular about which dollar
bills it is willing to accept...so it doesn't help much....I have heard of
some schools which have a Business Office cashier stationed in the library!
Would that that were true here! However, I think the change problem is going
to end for almost everyone within a few years, when the debit card thing
takes over...we are even going to switch over to it on our campus this coming
year, I hear....Yea!!!!!

..................................................................
| Carol Goodson, Coordinator/Off-Campus Library Services         |
| Ingram Library, West Georgia College                           |
| Carrollton  GA  30118                                          |
| PHONE: (706) 830-2360   FAX: (706) 836-6626                    |
| BITNET: cgoodson@uga    INTERNET: cgoodson@uga.cc.uga.edu      |
| COMPUSERVE: 70253,1146            cgoodson@sun.cc.westga.edu.  |
..................................................................
 The difference between the Democrats and the Republicans is that
 while the Democrats remind you that life isn't fair, the
 Republicans make sure it isn't.
...................................................................
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Date:         Mon, 28 Sep 1992 08:47:51 LCL
              <CIRCPLUS@IDBSU.BITNET>
From:         Bob Jones <BJONES@UNF1VM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Apologies and APOLOGIES

Prefacing remarks with 'I/we REGRET...', rather than 'I am/We are
sorry ...', often makes the explanation sound like an apology without
the depth associated with the word 'sorry'.  I find that this
distinction makes an apology more palatable when it is purely political.

Bob Jones   (904) 646-2552 : SUNCOM 861-2552 : FAX 904-646-2719
Head, Public Services Division, and Library Systems Coordinator
University of North Florida Library              P.O. Box 17605
4567 St. Johns Bluff Road, South         Jacksonville, FL 32216
BITNET: BJONES@UNF1VM  ::   INTERNET: bjones@unf1vm.cis.unf.edu
From: JTCAVANAGH@CCMAIL.SUNYSB.EDU (Janet M Cavanagh)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.circplus
Subject: Re: IDs
Date: 2 Oct 92 21:39:56 GMT
              <CIRCPLUS@IDBSU.BITNET>
Organization: State University of New York, Stony Brook
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               State University of New York at Stony Brook
                       Stony Brook, NY 11794-3339

                                            Janet M Cavanagh
                                            Head, Circulation/Reserve Department
                                            Library-Circulation
                                            516 632-0771
                                            02-Oct-1992 05:35pm EDT
FROM:  JTCAVANAGH
TO:    Chris Hanson/UTSA                    (
 _@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu:CIRCPLUS@IDBSU.BITNET )

SUBJECT: RE: IDs

	This answer reminded me of a question. At Stony Brook, our id office,
under traffic, gives out id cards which are use a library cards. I don't know
what they use as criteria for non-affiliated folks, but I do see letters from
departmental secretaries saying give this guy a faculty id card and then he
expects faculty privileges. We don't have any guidelines on, for example, what
is a visiting scholar and what should his privileges be. When will he stop
visiting and return to Poland with  our books in his suitcase. Any thoughts?
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Date:         Wed, 30 Sep 1992 09:27:57 EST
              <CIRCPLUS@IDBSU.BITNET>
From:         Randall May <ALI00KRM@UNCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Community user fees revisited

  Our policies for non-university types here at the University of North
Carolina Charlotte are as follows:
  Community Borrowers (state resident, over 18 yrs) - $15, 3 weeks
  Borrowers from other state university system schools - 3 weeks, no $
  Alumni Association members - 3 weeks, no charge
  Local museums - 3 weeks (we issue one individual card, no charge)
  Local higher education consortium - faculty only, 3 weeks, no charge
                 ALL ARE LIMITED TO 6 ITEMS AT A TIME.
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Date:         Fri, 2 Oct 1992 10:04:41 U
              <CIRCPLUS@IDBSU.BITNET>
From:         Joanne Leary <joanne_leary@QMRELAY.MAIL.CORNELL.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Staplers, Kleenex and Ho

        Reply to:   RE>Staplers, Kleenex and Hole-
The items that we keep include tape (2 dispensers), scissors, staplers (2), a
3-hole punch (regular capacity), a paper cutter, mechanical pencil sharpener,
markers, pens and pencils.  The larger stuff is kept on a separate table.  No
tissues.  All of this stuff does break, get stolen, etc.  We replace it as we
can, although I am not wedded to the notion that we must, or even should.  Hole
punchers are a particular problem; we've never had a single model that worked
well for more than a few months.  Somebody out there among us ought to be
mechanically/technologically gifted enough to figure out a design that will
hold up the the Library Test of heavy usage/abusage.  Maybe a desk laser model?
 Let's get some ideas going.  Rusty, are you listening?

We also keep a shoebox full of the sort of stuff Engineering students need to
conduct their academic lives -- protractors, calculators, templates, rulers,
T-squares, log paper, etc.  They are most grateful, and this stuff doesn't cost
us a dime, because it all comes from Lost and Found.

Actually, one of our circ sups at one of the large units solved the problem of
equipment disappearance from the desk pretty well: he barcoded everything that
could hold a barcode and created unlinked item records.  Charged these things
out just like a reserve book.  For items like scissors whose topological
configuration precluded barcoding, he simply put the barcode on a Scissors
Card, for example.  The act of charging out a scissors or stapler in this
manner is meaningful enough to borrowers that they don't forget about bringing
them back, nor do they steal them, because a bill is sure to follow.  By the
way, we've tried tattle-taping these items -- but mostly you can't hide the
strip well enough to make the scheme work.  Of course, cutting the strip
renders it useless.

Joanne Leary
Engineering Library
Cornell
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Date:         Fri, 2 Oct 1992 14:21:06 -0500
              <CIRCPLUS@IDBSU.BITNET>
From:         Nancy Carriar <ncarriar@UA.D.UMN.EDU>
Subject:      circ policies (serials)

We have recently changed some of our circ policies (serials).  Would
like to see circ plicies (regarding serials) from other libraries.
Thank you for your replies.
From: SWGFICK@UMSLVMA.BITNET (ted ficklen)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.circplus
Subject: flame on!
Date: 6 Oct 92 19:38:28 GMT
              <CIRCPLUS@IDBSU.BITNET>
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

What really toasts my cheese is when a patron comes up to the desk and
asks if we can be a little more quiet back here. GRRRRRRR!
From: LIBLXC@BYUVM.BITNET (Laurie Cardon)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.circplus
Subject: Re: IDs
Date: 30 Sep 92 15:30:05 GMT
              <CIRCPLUS@IDBSU.BITNET>
Organization: Brigham Young University
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>The RIT campus is going to a multifunctional all-campus ID card
>(featuring credit/debit/is also an ID).  With this new card the library
>will go from wanding a patron OCR# to bring up the patron's account to
>wanding a barcode that is the student's social security number.
>My question:  are there any other libraries that use a ss# as a
>library ID barcode/number and what problems have you had with this?
>Or insights?

I think SS# based patron barcodes are pretty typical for NOTIS libraries.
We've been using them for years.  The only real drawback I find is that
since we don't have a barcode printer at circulation, we are unable to
attach patron barcodes to community borrower cards.  Keying (rather than
scanning) in the numbers is a nuisance, but not an unbearable one.  Your
ID center will need to be prepared to issue fake SS#s to international
students, etc. -- but I'm sure they're already prepared for that.

                                     Laurie
*************************************************************************
Laureen Cardon             : Truth is an approach to living,
Circulation Librarian      | not just an approach to knowing.
Brigham Young University   |
Provo, Utah 84601          |              - Parker Palmer
LIBLXC@BYUVM.BITNET        |        (quoted at 1992 BYU Conference)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.circplus
From: trumpins@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Barbara Trumpinski)
Subject: Re: Thank-you
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 13:48:48 GMT

In <CIRCPLUS%92092922011173@IDBSU.BITNET> Dan Lester <ALILESTE@IDBSU.BITNET> writes:

>On Tue, 29 Sep 1992 22:05:00 EST W.C. DIVENS said:
>>I kinda laugh when I see a 'Head of Circ' position posted requiring
>>a MLS.  Not to demean the MLS...but if I were writing the job description
>>I might put in that I preferred someone who managed a billing department,
>>a complaint department, a fast-food chain, whatever.

> Yup...lots to that...and our head of circ exemplifies that very well.
>He never worked in library before, has military and corporate experience
>with patrons and others.....does a bangup job.

>   Knows how to compromise when necessary, but tough as nails also...

>dan

AMEN (or a-women, as the case may be) i am the support staff person in
charge of circ at the agriculture library and before that i ran the
circ desk at the urbana campus med school library...i think i probably
got more useful training for these jobs as the night manager of a
campus convenience store than i did in the m.l.s. program...

barb 
agriculture library--uiuc
--
***************************************************************************
conan the librarian a.k.a. kitten           /\ /\  barbara ann 
"my life's a soap opera, isn't yours?"      {=.=}
                                              ~   trumpins@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu 
"perhaps _any_ universe becomes real in proportion 
to the number of people who believe in it and spend time there." s. robinson
From: SHONTZ%ATHENA.DECNET@UTHSCSA1.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.circplus
Subject: Re: THANK YOU
Date: 1 Oct 92 19:26:26 GMT
              <CIRCPLUS@IDBSU.BITNET>
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So far I've seen a lot of crying about "looking bad" when an administrator re-
verses one's decision.  But there are many reasons administrators do that, the
most common of which is that the person changes their story by the time they get
   to the high muckety-mucks.  It is quite possible that they have a legitimate
reason to ask for an exception or forgiveness that they do not express to the
first (orr even second) staff member they see.  Politics is an ugly business,
but directors are paid to take into account concerns that go beyond the library.
   Thus line personnel may be overruled even when they are right.  So when our
MD + Ph. D faculty library committee member runs up several hundred dollars in
fines, you bet I'll write the letter.  If the director then wants the fines
waived, well, that's her business.
     I believe it helps patron relations for them to know that there is some sor
   t
of recourse if they believe they have been unreasonably treated or affected by
a policy.  So I instruct staff that if a patron complains bitterly about a sit-
uation they are to refer that person to a supervisor, and this process continues
   up to the director if necessary.  If someone in the chain wants to give in, t
   hatis their business.
        Forcing a staff member to apologize, however, is inexcusable.  Under all
   but the most extraordinary circumstances the handling of staff problems is an
internal matter, and none of the patron's business.
        On occasion we have had patrons return to gloat about their success in
getting higher-ups to reverse their positions.  I inform my supervisor about
such behavior, and it usually results in much harsher treatment for the person
next time.

David (Yes I am a line supervisor) Shont
UT Health Science Center--San Antonio
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.circplus
Date:         Sat, 26 Sep 1992 18:36:28 CDT
              <CIRCPLUS@IDBSU.BITNET>
From:         kendall <KSIMMONS%UKANVM.bitnet@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Do it yourself check-out
              24 Sep 1992 13:57:00 EST from
              <N93774%PITTVMS.bitnet@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

What good will betting your VISA do?  Besides there being no money on it, you
will have reported it stolen and the first time we try to use it, we'll be
arrested.  Some deal.

The way we handle "stolen" IDs is that if the person shows us a police
report (even if they haven't reported it stolen to us), we will cancell the
processing fees and just charge replacement.   Plus, we'll consider other
extenuating circumstances (like being beaten up and robbed...hard to report
an ID lost if you're being stitched up in the emergency room).  But one must
maintain a bit of skepticism about the person whose wallet was allegedly stolen
but they didn't report it to anyone and that thief just suddenly had a compul-
sion to race over to our library and check out a lot of books in the very same
subject area that this person is studying in.  Which we get far too often.
We, too, immediately suspend privileges onthe ID number when notified AND, if
not notified, have access tothe student records database that records replace-
ment IDs.  (Unfortunately, those records do not distinguish between lost/stolen
ID replacements and replacements because the picture looked bad...which seems
to be the greatest reason for replacing IDs at KU.  There is a magnetic tape
on the ID that records whether or not the ID is valid.  Unfortunately, we
can't use it because so many of our computer terminals can't hook up to that
system and still do anythign else.  Oh well.  As a result, I have to agree
with Rusty that we, at least, would probably have a hard time defending our
position in court in many, but not all, cases.)


Kendall
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Date:         Thu, 1 Oct 1992 21:41:22 CST
              <CIRCPLUS@IDBSU.BITNET>
From:         Danny Wilson <wilsond@LIB.UCSF.EDU>
Subject:      RE:Staplers, Kleenex and Hole-Punchers

Staplers--yes, although they are kinda crippled (I am responsible for
keeping these because--I ADMIT IT--I'll be damned if we have good ones out
there because of the way they are treated!)

Kleenex--no, but it does get asked for. . .we don't supply it to the
staff as it is, how could we justify giving it to the general public?

Hole-Punchers--yes, not a good one. . .sounds like we have the same model.
And complaints are made about it.  I was supposed to order a better one, but
have "forgotten" to.  We went through two very expensive heavy duty ones
over the last 2 years, thus my resistance (I think they cost in the $80.00
range).  Patrons would take these apart for unknown reasons and lose the
pieces. . .

We also offer scotch tape (on order of Administration because of patron
complaints), and pencils (these are horrible short golf pencils that no one
wants to take---we get them for free).

Heavy duty staplers also used to be available, but 2 of these were ruined
and have not been replaced. . .

I don't understand why this stuff gets treated so roughly, but it does, you
can rest assured!

And I'm sure I have some funny stories about these things, maybe when I'm
not so tired I can give y'all a couple.
Danny J. Wilson
UCSF Library
(415) 476-5579
wilsond@knowman.lib.ucsf.edu
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Date:         Mon, 5 Oct 1992 13:03:32 CDT
              <CIRCPLUS@IDBSU.BITNET>
From:         ted ficklen <SWGFICK@UMSLVMA.BITNET>
Subject:      Circ Desks and Battleground Metaphors

I really think the battleground metaphors are a little too much. If I
didnt like circ duty, I'd try to get transferred someplace else. But I
love it, because its a combination of everything that goes on elsewhere
in the library, plus wild cards that just pop up from out of nowhere.

At its very worst, its never as bad as, say, late shift at a fast-food
restaurant.  On our best days, its like a tennis game, lots of quick,
efficient lobbing back and forth.

Okay, call me Pollyanna, and maybe I'm just lucky to be where I am,
but lets not glorify our heroism TOO much, okay? 'Specially if patrons
are listening.
Ted Ficklen
Health Sciences Library, University of Missouri-St Louis,
swgfick at umslvma
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Date:         Mon, 5 Oct 1992 08:37:00 EST
              <CIRCPLUS@IDBSU.BITNET>
From:         "W.C. DIVENS" <N93774@PITTVMS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: A READER COMMENTS

Mr. Pennell:

I will second Dan's welcome.

But permit me a clarification:  the comparison of circ to combat, if
you will reread, was done to simply illustrate the concept that 'you
gotta be there to appreciate it'.

A thought that I would like to reiterate to those who have not been
there.....

Rusty
(26 year veteran)
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