From: jewell@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Larry Jewell)
Newsgroups: soc.veterans,alt.war.vietnam
Subject: 'NamVet Newsletter, Vol.4, no.12 (6/7)
Date: 4 Oct 92 17:03:22 GMT
Followup-To: soc.veterans
Organization: Purdue University


     American  public  by  the  media,  Norris is  not  a  drug-crazed, 
     unemployed, shaggy-haired, down and out walking time bomb.  He is, 
     like the overwhelming majority of Vietnam veterans,  a successful, 
     hard-working,  solid  member  of his community who has turned  the 
     Vietnam experience into a positive driving force in his life.
       Today  Vietnam  veterans  can  be  found on  the  top  of  every 
     profession,  from  judges,  governors and congressmen to self-made 
     millionaires  such as former Marine pilot Fred Smith,  a  two-tour 
     Vietnam veteran who started Federal Express.
       Vietnam was an intensely individual experience -  a soldier went 
     to Vietnam alone and he came back alone.  He was in combat one day 
     and  back on the block the next day with no time to decompress and 
     with few veteran peers to talk out his feelings.  He returned to a 
     nation  in  turmoil  that scorned his service to his  country  and 
     failed  to  understand  his experiences.   And,  the  war's  final 
     outcome  derided  his sacrifices and left for naught the death  of 
     his comrades.
       It is no wonder then that there are "bush vets"  who have turned 
     their  back  on society and retreated into the mountains or  other 
     Vietnam veterans with serious emotional problems.
       Yet, while these troubled veterans have received an overwhelming 
     portion  of the media coverage devoted to Vietnam  veterans,  they 
     represent only a tiny portion of the 2.6 million men and women who 
     served  in Vietnam of which only about 518,000 actually served  in 
     combat arms.
       From Vietnam,  veterans brought back not just their memories but 
     a  strong  drive  and desire to succeed and to live  life  to  its 
     fullest.
       "My  father said I never got that Airborne attitude out of  me," 
     says  Frank  Norris who lives with his wife and three children  in 
     Marion,  S.C.   Norris  credits Vietnam for giving him  aggressive 
     drive  and decisive decision-making ability.   Norris has built  a 
     successful accounting firm, owns a computer company and a military 
     supply  company,  is part owner of a restaurant and is a corporate 
     financial   consultant.    He  is  also  an  active  skydiver  and 
     rappeller.
       Yet  Vietnam  remains  a  big part  of  Norris'  life.   "I  get 
     depressed sometimes," he says, "because I saw a lot of people give 
     up  their lives in Vietnam for a cause I feel was valid and I feel 
     this  country  as a whole let them down completely.   I feel  they 
     died in vain."
       Many of the myths continuously spoonfed to America about Vietnam 
     and the veteran are still deeply ingrained in the public more than 
     
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     Volume  4, Number 12                           December 14, 1990

     15 years after the last combat troops left the war zone.   How the 
     war  is portrayed and remembered has continued to bother  veterans 
     ever since they returned from the war zone.   "If someone calls me 
     up," explains Norris, "and says, 'Hey, did you watch FIRST BLOOD?' 
     and he wants to know if that what really what it was like -  well, 
     that  rubs  me the wrong way.   I'll tell them 'You got a case  of 
     posthumous curiosity.  Where was your curiosity in 1966?'"
       For  Frank  Norris and most other Vietnam veterans the war  will 
     never  be  completely  over but like Norris they  have  reconciled 
     themselves  to  the  fact there is nothing they can do  about  it.  
     Norris' sense of responsibility has always carried him through the 
     rough spots and while he is "extremely empathetic"  with those who 
     have  valid  problems he feels that many use Vietnam  and  delayed 
     stress  as  an excuse to cover up their own personal failures  and 
     lack of fortitude.
       "Now,  the  guy  who  was a food inspector in Cam Ranh  Bay  and 
     living  in  some hootch in mortal fear of a rocket coming  in  the 
     whole year he was in Vietnam, to me that's not tangible.   Yet who 
     knows?  There's a circuit breaker in everybody's head.   Some just 
     close more quickly than others.
       "While  I'll  be  glad  to help those who are  willing  to  help 
     themselves,  if I see somebody sitting around crying in their beer 
     over Vietnam,  I'd like to kick their ass and get them going,"  he 
     says.
     
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      Howard Klein was drafted in 1965.   "I really had no objection to 
     going.   I couldn't let somebody else fight my war,"  he explains.  
     After  flying helicopters for the 101st Airborne Division in '67 - 
     '68,  Klein  is  now president of his own  electrical  contracting 
     company and captains his own dive boat.
     =*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=
     
       "I was a volunteer.  I got what I asked for.  I can't sit around 
     making excuses for myself."
       Howard Klein was drafted in 1965.  "I really had no objection to 
     going.   I couldn't let somebody else fight my war,"  he explains.  
     So  Klein  volunteered for Airborne and flight school and got  the 
     latter.
       In  1968 Klein found himself at the controls of a chopper of the 
     101st Airborne Division disgorging paratroopers on the roof of the 
     American  Embassy in Saigon during the Tet offensive.   During his 
     Vietnam  tour  Klein was shot down four times and was awarded  the 
     Distinguished   Flying  Cross  for  performing  a  hazardous   hot 
     extraction of a long-range patrol team.
       Today  Klein is president of a successful electrical contracting 
     business  in New York City and owner and captain of a diving boat.  
     He lives on Long Island with his wife and two daughters.  Like all 
     successful  men Klein buried himself in his work "16 hours a  day, 
     seven days a week" going after his goals.
       "Yet, without the organizational and logistical support training 
     I  got  in  the military,"  he acknowledges,  "I would not  be  as 
     successful  as I am now.   My company would not run as efficiently 
     as it does.
       "The  Vietnam  experience gave me a can-do attitude because  you 
     knew  if  you didn't accomplish your mission somebody  could  lose 
     their  life.   Vietnam  taught  me to  operate  efficiently  under 
     pressure  and any business in the New York metropolitan area is  a 
     pressure business."
     
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       Like Frank Norris, being a Vietnam veteran is an experience that 
     has stayed with Klein.
       "Still to this day, I feel very bitter toward a lot of people my 
     own age.   The bitterness is caused because a lot of them took the 
     easy  way out.   In a lot of respects,  I feel that I can't bridge 
     the gap that exists.
       "The friends I had before that didn't want to pay their dues - I 
     didn't  retain them as friends.   I dissociated myself from  them.  
     And when I meet my peers today if I find that they were in college 
     and they protested Vietnam then I have no use for them socially.
       "As  a matter of fact I have dissociated myself from a number of 
     them  in business because I don't like dealing with people I  feel 
     uncomfortable  with.   That  kind of individual is not an  ethical 
     individual.
       "I find that the veteran,  the one that went to Vietnam and paid 
     his  dues,  is  far  more ethical and has a far greater  sense  of 
     responsibility  and  is  much more successful in business  than  a 
     person who did not."
       Every Saturday and Sunday as well as Wednesday night from spring 
     through  fall  Klein  captains his 36-foot dive  boat,  the  "Grey 
     Eagle,"  named  after  the  call sign of his  first  commander  in 
     Vietnam.   He  still works a full week at his company.   Next year 
     Klein takes delivery on the 56-foot "Eagle's Nest" now being built 
     in  New  Jersey specifically for dive operations.   He  ultimately 
     plans a 120-foot boat which will be his "final resting place" when 
     he retires from his electrical contracting business.
     
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      After having served with the 1st Cavalry Division in 1967,  Steve 
     Kanaly  "felt  a lot stronger about being an  American.   I  think 
     Americans  represented themselves well in Vietnam and my unit  did 
     an exemplary job.  I have an advantage over people who do not have 
     this experience."   Kanaly is now an actor playing the part of Ray 
     Krebs in the TV show "Dallas."
     =*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=
     
       "I  need  a challenge and diving is both a physical  and  mental 
     challenge," Klein explains.  "In scuba diving,  you're in your own 
     world.  You're making things happen.   When I get down there I can 
     come out of my shell and be myself.  And I find that most veterans 
     do have that wall around them and it's pretty thick.
       "What  they need more than anything is somebody close that  will 
     really listen to them so they can get it off their chest and be at 
     peace.   When  the Vietnam veteran came home we were non-entities.  
     It was like walking into a room and being totally ignored.  People 
     don't want to hear Vietnam.  They didn't want to know it.
       "I personally feel a very great responsibility toward my brother 
     veteran..  I give to every veteran organization.   I enjoy sharing 
     my  success with other veterans who were less fortunate.   I would 
     sooner  give to a veteran organization than the Salvation Army  or 
     Red Cross because I would rather help somebody that put his life n 
     the line and spilled his blood for his country.   They deserve the 
     help  more  than  the people that are on the welfare line  who  do 
     nothing but take from society."
       Steve  Kanaly,  who  plays  Ray Krebs in the  weekly  television 
     series  "Dallas"  survived  a tour as an infantryman with the  1st 
     Cavalry Division in 1967.   He says "The whole experience of being 
     drafted  jerked me out of my everyday complacent,  wonderful,  fat 
     lifestyle.  When I ca back to America I felt there wasn't anything 
     
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     I couldn't accomplish.
       "I  felt  a  lot  stronger about being  an  American.   I  think 
     Americans  represented themselves well in Vietnam and my unit  did 
     an exemplary job.  I have an advantage over people who do not have 
     this experience."
       For a long time, Kanaly,  who lives in Los Angeles with his wife 
     and two daughters, was able to put Vietnam out of his mind.  Since 
     1982  when he was grand marshall of the parade during the  Vietnam 
     Memorial  dedication in Washington,  D.C.,  he has been active  in 
     fund  raisers  for disabled veterans,  POW issues and the  Vietnam 
     Veterans Leadership Program.
       One  of  Steve  Kanaly's long-range goals is to "do  that  movie 
     about  Vietnam"  and  finally  bring  to the  public  an  accurate 
     portrayal of the Vietnam experience.
       Before  John Wetterer was drafted and sent as an infantryman  to 
     Vietnam  to  join  the Americal Division in late 1967,  he  had  a 
     degree  in  economics and was a personnel officer with  the  Chase 
     Manhattan  Bank.   When he returned to the States in the spring of 
     1969 he knew he would never be stuck behind a desk again.
       Touched  by  the misery and helplessness of Vietnam's  children, 
     Wetterer  formed  the  non-profit "American Friends  of  Children" 
     (P.O. Box 431, Massapequa,  NY 11758)  and became heavily involved 
     with  a  local  orphanage.   Discharged  in  1969,  Wetterer  made 
     numerous  trips back to Vietnam to work with homes for children in 
     Da Nang and Saigon.
     
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       "I  feel very good and I'm proud of the fact I went,"  says  1st 
     Cav  infantry  vet Dean Quillet.   "I've put most of  my  personal 
     frustrations  behind  me.   The memorial in Washington was  a  big 
     help."   Today,  Quillet  is  executive vice president  and  chief 
     administrative  officer  for Commonwealth Life  Insurance  Co.  in 
     Louisville, Ky.
     =*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=
     
       In April of 1975, as Saigon was falling,  he brought 600 orphans 
     ranging  from infants to six years old to America and placed  them 
     with families.  Three of the boys he adopted himself.  
       Since  August of 1976 Wetterer has been living in Guatemala City 
     where  he opened a home for boys in a former children's  hospital.  
     He  renamed it MI CASA (My Home)  and is now legal guardian to 248 
     boys,  the  youngest of which is five and the oldest 19.   "When a 
     boy  becomes  part  of  this  family he is  here  for  his  entire 
     childhood until he is ready to go out on his own," says Wetterer.
       "Obviously  it's not easy to find a babysitter for 248 boys so I 
     don't get back to the States often.   I did make it a point to see 
     the  Vietnam  wall.   I  brought my little son with me  because  I 
     wanted  to  show him the name of a friend I lost who he  is  named 
     after."
       Like  most  Vietnam veterans,  John Wetterer is  bitter  because 
     "after all the time,  money -  and especially lives -  we just let 
     Vietnam go down the tubes."  Vietnam opened Wetterer's eyes to "an 
     intense need that existed"  but rather than dwelling on the misery 
     of  war Wetterer used his Vietnam experience as a springboard  for 
     accomplishment.
       Another  veteran  who  turned  his  Vietnam  experience  into  a 
     positive  force is Dean Quillet,  the executive vice president and 
     chief   administrative  officer  of  Commonwealth  Life  Insurance 
     Company of Louisville, Ky.
     
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       "To  keep  from dwelling on all the frustrations of  Vietnam,  I 
     lost myself in my work.  I put in many, many hours and it paid off 
     in more ways than one," says Quillet,  who credits Vietnam for his 
     positive attitude and ability to work cooperatively with others.
       Quillet was drafted and sent to the 1st Cavalry Division in 1966 
     as  an  infantryman.   His second Purple Heart entitled him  to  a 
     year's  stay in Walter Reed.   "When I first got to the hospital I 
     was very depressed.   All I could do was lay back and stare at the 
     ceiling,  feeling sorry for myself.   Then I got to looking around 
     and saw people without arms,  legs,  eyes...  and they were coping 
     better  than myself.   I had all my limbs -  they were just  badly 
     bent  out of shape.   I lost part of a finger,  got braces on both 
     legs,  got an arm screwed up,  a few scars on my face and stomach, 
     but  basically  I'm in good shape.   My attitude began  to  change 
     considerably.
       "I  feel very good and I'm proud of the fact I went and I  think 
     the  reasons  we went to Vietnam and made a commitment there  were 
     all good.  I've put most of my personal frustrations behind me and 
     the memorial in Washington was a big help.  We lost 40 KIA from my 
     company  on  21 November 1966 and it pleases me to see those  guys 
     who fell have some recognition.   It's very emotional for me to go 
     because it's not just names I see:  I see the faces.
       "Contrary  to the way most folks operate today,  the company I'm 
     working  for  is the same company I started out with back in  1968 
     after I was discharged from the Army.   And,  I'm still married to 
     the same lady I married back in February of '66 before I went into 
     the Army."  Quillet has an 11-year-old son.  He is now active with 
     the  Kentucky Vietnam Veterans Leadership Program which helps find 
     jobs for those vets who have not put their problems behind them.
     
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       Combat  veteran of the 101st Abn.  Div.,  '66-'67,  Frank Norris 
     doesn't  fit the common American stereotype of the misfit vet  who 
     "can't come home."  Norris owns his own accounting firm,  computer 
     company,   military   supply  company  and  is  part  owner  of  a 
     restaurant.
     =*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=
     
       For  the first 10 years after coming back from Vietnam in  1969, 
     Dallas  real  estate  developer Tom Hartin didn't know  any  other 
     Vietnam veterans.
       "I already had my college degree so I got right into real estate 
     and  soon  opened  my  own  company,"  says  Hartin,   a  1st  Cav 
     infantryman who was decorated with a Silver Star.  "My year in the 
     bush  will stay with me the rest of my life,"  he concedes.   "The 
     alertness,  the  drive,  the  ability  to move  forward  and  make 
     decisions quickly and not get bogged down in trivial matters"  are 
     all  traits  driven home by Hartin's Vietnam experience  which  he 
     says have added greatly to his success in business.
       But  Hartin  felt  there was "something I missed which  was  the 
     association of veterans I had things in common with.  There were a 
     lot  of things I wanted to talk about."   Hartin had been  working 
     seven days a week to develop his career.   As his son and daughter 
     were getting older, he decided to shift emphasis and wind down his 
     home-building business.
       On the spur of a moment in mid-1982, he drove down to Ft.  Hood, 
     the  home  base of the 1st Cav Division,  and got to know his  old 
     outfits.   At  the  same time he joined the division  association.  
     Since  then  Hartin has made up for the first 10 years  and  spent 
     
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     more  than  half  his  time at his own  expense  tackling  veteran 
     issues.
       He  is  now  vice president of the  First  Cavalry  Association, 
       Chairman  of  the  Dallas Vietnam Veterans  Leadership  Program, 
       president  of  the National Veterans  Leadership  Program,  vice 
       chairman  of  the fund-raising committee for the  Texas  Vietnam 
       Veterans Memorial, and chairman of the Dallas/Ft. Worth Veterans 
       Business  Council.   In  addition,  he is on the Small  Business 
       Administration's  Veterans Advisory Committee and was named  SBA 
       State  Veteran Advocate of the Year for the last two years.   In 
       conjunction with three other veterans, Hartin has formed VETPAC, 
       a  political action committee to raise funds to support  Vietnam 
       veterans  in politics and encourage other veterans to enter  the 
       political arena.
       "Those  of  us  who  have made the adjustment  and  been  fairly 
     successful," he says, "need to step forward and identify ourselves 
     as Vietnam veterans."  At a State fair where Hartin manned a fund-
     raising  booth for the Texas Vietnam Veterans Memorial,  he  would 
     "watch  the  Vietnam  veterans kind of circle around and  in  many 
     cases the wives would come forward and then they would slowly come 
     forward.  It was really interesting.  They were obviously the ones 
     that  had  never really stepped forward before.   After all  these 
     years it's really amazing the number of people who have not really 
     dealt with their Vietnam experience.
       "I'm  a  firm  believer  that  you've got  to  talk  about  your 
     experiences to be able to work it out in your head."
       TOm Hartin has met many Vietnam veterans in the last three years 
     including  a bank president and the biggest real estate  developer 
     in  Dallas.   He has also gone into several businesses with  other 
     veterans  because as he says,  "I feel comfortable with and  trust 
     fellow Vietnam veterans."
       "A  gap  exists,"  says  Hartin,  "between those who  have  gone 
     through  the war experience and those who have not.   It is  their 
     loss  because  I'm  a better person for having  gone  through  it, 
     survived it, and gone on about my life."
       Richard  Kolb,  the  former  chairman  of  the  Houston  Vietnam 
     Veterans  Leadership  Program,  is  very emphatic  about  the  gap 
     between  veterans  and  non-veterans.   "There is some kind  of  a 
     unique  bond  us  Vietnam veterans have,"  he  says.   "The  first 
     question  that comes into my mind when I meet a guy between 31 and 
     40  is  to ask him,  "What did you do between 1965 and  1971?"   I 
     really use that as a measure for my peer group."
       Kolb  got  to  Vietnam in 1970 as an RTO with the  4th  Infantry 
     Division.   When  the  4th  was  sent back to the  States  he  was 
     transferred  to  the 101st Airborne Division.   For the last  five 
     years  Kolb  has  worked  as a Tenneco oil  scout  monitoring  his 
     company's  competitors.   He  also  works as a  freelance  writer, 
     having  published  over 30 articles dealing mostly  with  military 
     history.
       "If it wasn't for Vietnam," says Kolb,  "I wouldn't have done 80 
     percent of the things I have done with my life.   It has propelled 
     me into writing.   It instilled a drive in me and was a motivating 
     factor in traveling around the world.   For the longest time after 
     I got out of the Army I kind of lived my life a year at a time.  I 
     really  didn't  plan too much in the future."   Kolb's wife of  11 
     years,  and  three  sons,  were a big factor in settling down  and 
     breaking the one-year syndrome.
       Kolb  became so frustrated with the faulty image of the  Vietnam 
     veteran  as portrayed by the media,  as well as the "mentality  of 
     
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     certain  veterans that want to make you all into a welfare state," 
     that  he  put together a statistic sheet that separated fact  from 
     fiction.   Predictably,  the  information  was ignored by all  the 
     major media.
       All  the veterans interviewed for this article expressed concern 
     that there are far too many Vietnam veterans who are using Vietnam 
     as a crutch for their own personal failures.
       Richard  Kolb  saw this happen at the Houston  Vet  Center.   "A 
     certain  percent  of  guys have genuine legitimate problems  as  a 
     result  of something that happened in combat.   For these guys  my 
     heart  goes  out to them.   There is nothing too good for them  to 
     help them.
       "We  found  a lot of guys who never set foot in Vietnam down  at 
     the Vet Center crying the blues about how tough the war was.  Even 
     one  of the counselors admitted that to us.   Guys came down there 
     and  said  they had emotional problems because they worried  about 
     having to go to Vietnam.   Things like that really hurt it for the 
     guys that deserve the attention."
       The  memories and scars of the Vietnam War are as varied as  the 
     many  facets of the war itself.   But for all veterans,  as  Frank 
     Norris Phrases it:  "Vietnam is hard to remember but impossible to 
     forget."
       But  the camaraderie,  brotherhood,  love and dependence on  one 
     another on the battlefield has now transcended into civilian life.  
     In  combat,  Americans  prided themselves on never  leaving  their 
     wounded  behind.   And today,  even those veterans who blocked out 
     the  war  for  years as they build successful lives  are  stepping 
     forward  and reaching out to help that minority of their  comrades 
     who need it.
       All  across the country,  especially since the dedication of the 
     Vietnam  Memorial in 1982 and the recent ticker-tape parade in New 
     York City,  Vietnam vets are coming out of the woodwork,  standing 
     up proud,  tall and ready to aggressively assert the fact of their 
     Vietnam  service.   They  are increasingly earning their  rightful 
     place as leaders of American society.
       The tables have turned.  As Richard Kolb puts it:  "I still have 
     a  personal  vendetta  against flag  burners,  draft  dodgers  and 
     protesters.  For years,  I said to myself,  'What are you going to 
     do if you run into one?'  But I can get anybody to admit they were 
     in that category.   Nor for a change,  it is THEM that are keeping 
     things to themselves instead of us!"
     

















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                           Statistics of Vietnam
                       By: Phillip Hebert, Director 
        VIETNAM LEARNING CENTER - PO Box 3536 Alexandria, VA 22302
     
     =*= Longest war in U.S. history, August 4, 1964 to May 7, 1975.
     
     =*= Over 8.5 million served in the Armed Forces during the Vietnam 
         era
     
     =*= Approximately 4 million served in Vietnam.
     
     =*= 500,000 to 1,500,00 saw active combat or were exposed to
         hostile situations.
     
     =*= 58,156 KIA and MIA are listed on the Memorial in Washington, 
         D.C.
     
     =*= 303,000 were wounded.
     
     =*= 150,000 required hospitalization.
     
     =*= 75,000 sustained serious wounds resulting in permanent
         impairment.
     
     =*= 300% higher rate of amputation.
     
     =*= 18.4% sustained multiple amputations, compared with 5.7% in
         World War II.
     
     =*= 2.5% mortality rate in Vietnam, compared with 4.5% in World
         War II.
     
     =*= It is estimated that 20%-60% of all who served in Indochina
         may be suffering emotional repercussions of their war
         experience (800,000 to 1.5 million people).
     
     =*= It is estimated that between 54,000 and 108,000 veterans have
         committed suicide since the war.  Figures from 1978 to date.
     
     =*= Outreach Workers and Mental Health Professionals estimate that
         there are 35,000-45,000 Veterans living in ISOLATION.
     
     =*= FIGURES OF ALL WAR KIA AND MIA:
         World War I - 3,350 MIA's
         World War II - 406,872 KIA's - 78,750 MIA's
          22,000 live POW's in German camps were kept by the RUSSIANS.
         Korean War (Conflict) - 54,235 KIA's - 8,177 MIA's
         Vietnam War - 57,685 KIA's - 2,459 MIA's
          As of to date there are 2,370 MIA's still missing.
         TOTAL NUMBER OF KIA's 518,792 - MIA's 92,736
     
                           KIA: Killed In Action
                          MIA: Missing in Action
                           POW: Prisoner of War
     




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                         Here puppy, here puppy...
                           By: David Kirschbaum
     
                 [captured from a message in VIETNAM_VETS]
      
      RC>  We never got anything big, though.  One duck and the
      RC>  services of the owner as cook turned out to be the biggest
      RC>  deal I witnessed. 
      
     Never bartered with RVN since we were usually able to scrounge up 
     something ourselves.  Never fancied dog myself .. especially if 
     they've been run hard before killing.  Which brings to mind ... 
      
     War Story:  During my period as Commander, Dak To (e.g., Team 
     Maine was only guys there besides abandoned TACAN team).  One 
     scroungy, skinny garbage dump dog sniffing around the abandoned 
     bunkers.  'Yards decide they just HAVE to have fresh meat. 
      
     First I cleverly stalk Friend Dog around the area, using highly 
     refined SF stalking skills, taking an occasional semi-automatic 
     shot at him with my silenced Sten gun.  (Silenced Stens are NOT 
     noted for accuracy.  Nor for silence when they're as old as mine 
     was!) 
      
     Finally got a round close enough to him to notice and he started 
     getting nervous.  End of stalking, switch to high-speed pursuit 
     mode. 
      
     Dave Baker (Riverside CA) , my 11, driving like a madman;  Sherman 
     Miller (Louisiana) and Mike Buckland (Seattle Washington) hanging 
     on in the back with about 3 of the 'Yards .. and all of them 
     screaming like madmen; me standing in the front seat, hanging on 
     to the windshield with a hand or two, and trying to squeeze off 
     bursts whenever Friend Dog (and/or Dave Baker) went halfway in a 
     straight line ... Chased that sucker ALL over the runway, range 
     area, contonement area, etc. 
      
     Finally (maybe six magazines later) winged him.  Dave comes to 
     smoking halt beside Friend Dog (who is still twitching); whips out 
     his trusty sawed-off M79, and fires point-blank at Friend Dog (who 
     is lying at our collective feet).  Everybody screams, 
     simultaneously with sound of M79 firing. Turns out Dave was NOT 
     totally mad; had a shotgun round chambered; truly put Friend Dog 
     out of his misery (and took ten years off my life!). 
      
     We'll save the traditional 'Yard food preparation for a later 
     edition. 
      
           (You can take off your helmets and flak jackets now.) 
     









     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 85
     Volume  4, Number 12                           December 14, 1990



     =================================================================
           O l '   G l o r y   n '   S h i f t i n '   S a n d s
     =================================================================

              Vietnam vet's view: Similar  - but not the same
                              by Robert Locke
                            El Paso Press Pool
                          El Paso Times - 12/2/90
                           Input by: Joyce Flory
               NamVet's Incarcerated Veterans Section Editor
     
     SAUDI  ARABIA  -  The  Army  camps of Saudi  Arabia  have  a  very 
     different feel from those of Vietnam two decades ago - the feel of 
     an army that doesn't plan to stay long and has not yet come under 
     fire.
       Except  for  the ever-present tools of war - and  the  soldiers' 
     universal  desire  to  go home -  few similarities jog  a  Vietnam 
     veteran's memory.
       Sandbags  are filled in the desert just as in the jungle  -  but 
     they aren't nearly as many of them.
       A  forward  base in Vietnam seemed almost all sandbags.  At  Con 
     Thien  and Khe Sahn few structures rose more than four feet  above 
     the  ground  and  few materials other than sandbags met  the  eye. 
     Marines lived underground.
       Even in larger bases where tents were used,  the "hooches"  were 
     protected by sandbag walls.
       Not so in the 3rd Armored Cavalry and 11th Air Defense Artillery 
     encampments  in  the  desert.  Tents  are  the  rule  and  sandbag 
     barricades are absent.  But the camps are surrounded by concertina 
     wire,  as  in Vietnam and the gun pits are unchanged:  three-foot- 
     deep holes surrounded and covered by sandbags with gaps for firing 
     holes.
       And  the tripod-mounted .50-caliber machine guns are as ugly and 
     menacing as ever.
       Everything  looks  neat  in these desert  camps,  including  the 
     soldiers.
       Boots are polished. No one here writes messages - or counts down 
     months - on their new Kevlar helmets with the Nazi-like profile.
       In Vietnam , a helmet was a  billboard. It was marked with peace 
     signs or threats against Ho Chi Minh or statements of outrage.
       And stuck in helmet bands was insect repellant, cigarette packs, 
     plastic spoons and lucky charms.
       The  bone-busting jeep is gone from this army,  replaced by  the 
     ubiquitous  "humvee,"  which  seems more versatile  and  certainly 
     offers a more pleasant ride.
       And the canned C-rations that were the staff of life for Vietnam 
     troops are no more. Now its MREs - Meals, Ready-to-Eat - with food 
     tucked into plastic bags.
       Yet soldiers in 1990 complain about the MREs exactly as those of 
     1968 complained of C-rations.
       Some things never change.
     







     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 86
     Volume  4, Number 12                           December 14, 1990

                  No flags in the desert?  Gimme a break!
                            By: Clay Tannacore
                  <<< SYSTEM ONE >>> BBS - Charleston, SC
                              (803) 556-1999
                  <from the VIETNAM_VETS EchoConference>
          <Slightly Edited and Spell-Checked by Managing Editor>
     
     I   know   d*mned  well  this  is  *off  topic*,   in  this   echo 
     (VIETNAM_VETS), but I had to get it off my chest.
     
     It's 7:00 PM (EST).   I've just sat down at the dinner table.   On 
     the TV I see Dan Rathers' ugly face staring at me,  with his ever-
     active  mouth  running  on and on about something that  CBS  finds 
     newsworthy. My wife, my children, and my grandson are preparing to 
     devour  an  invigorating meal of something my wife calls  "chicken 
     fried steak, corn,  rice(can't get Nam out of the household)  with 
     green beans."   I turn up the volume of the TV,  to maybe offset a 
     meal I'm not real happy about.
     
     Ol' Dan is saying something about Saudi.  On the screen I see some 
     Army sargent,  with a pen knife in his hand,  removing an insignia 
     of  the  American flage from the shoulder of a recently called  up 
     reservest.  The reporters voice is saying that American troops are 
     being  *ordered*  to  remove  all insignias with  American  flags, 
     because, "it would offend the Saudis'"
     
     "Jesus H.  Christ!"    I hear myself shouting.   "What the hell is 
     going on?  Who in the hell do these camel drivers think they are?"
     
     My  wife  looks up at me with that old familiar look on  her  face 
     which  says,  "He's ready for the Vet Center,  again."   My oldest 
     girl  plays  it safe.   She slips down until she's on  the  floor, 
     under  the table.  My grandson (who's never experienced one of  my 
     outbursts)  drops  his  spoon on the floor,  takes a crap  in  his 
     Pamper(tm),  and  tries to run,  but his feet aren't touching  the 
     floor.
     
     I tell you all this, so I can say this.   I sat around and said to 
     myself (I talk to myself a lot ever since Nam.  At least I get the 
     answers  I  want.)  when I heard about the troops over  there  not 
     being  able  to have a Bible,  because *it offends  the  Saudis'*.  
     "Well,  this is because of their religion,  and anyway,  if I know 
     American GI's, they're gonna'  have a Bible,  no matter what."   I 
     even found a way to justify the Saudis' bull crap about our troops 
     eating Pork.  Seems this too, *offends*  them.   I made a joke out 
     of  the fact that *The Sand*  in that Land of Sand,  was sacred to 
     them, and if American GI's wanted to fill sandbags, they'd have to 
     bring in their own sand. Seeing the guys and gals over there being 
     told  that they can't read a Playboy/Playgirl magazine wasn't  too 
     bad.   I  knew from experience that American ingenuity would solve 
     that problem, and The Centerfolds would again reign supreme.   The 
     Beer  (alcohol)  matter was another thing.   If memory serves  me, 
     beer is the prime ingredient in GI motivation.  If you wanna'  win 
     a war with American GI's, you better have The Bud ready...[smile]
     
     I  took  all of the above in the finest tradition of The  American 
     Way.  BUT!   Now The Camel Drivers are *OFFENDED*  by the sight of 
     Old Glory?  PISS on them!  Let em'  be *offended*,  let em'  fight 
     their  own battles.   Let Saddam take over their Sand Box  (Ooops, 
     
     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 87
     Volume  4, Number 12                           December 14, 1990

     meant  to say country).   When Ol'  Saddam is all done with  them, 
     then  we (America)  can go in and wipe his sandblasted ass off the 
     face  of  the Earth,  and let the American Oil Companies run  both 
     countries, so that gas prices at the pump can go up to two fifty a 
     gallon....[smile]
     
     Remember The Saudi Battle Cry:
     
     Nuke em' till they glow in the dark, then shoot em' after supper."
     

















































     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 88
     Volume  4, Number 12                           December 14, 1990

                        Thanksgiving Day Revisited
                              Sarge Hultgren
                        NamVet Editorial Assistant
                      Freedom's Choice BBS - Lynn, MA
                              (617) 593-2605
      
                             Bird Day upon us 
                       Kitchen smells are delicious 
                      In the electronic world, meals 
                           Are mostly ficticious 
      
                          To you and your friends 
                           On this day remember 
                           The ones gone before 
                          That had hard Novembers 
      
                          In times of full plenty 
                        When our tables are stacked 
                          Start with some thanks 
                           because we don't lack 
      
                        And a special rememberance 
                            To those who stand 
                       Not with dressing but dressed 
                            On hot desert sands 
      
                             God speed you all 
                          Home to Mom's Apple pie 
                          To the umbrella of blue 
                       One of freedom's clear skies 
      
                          If the occasion arises 
                         Which we hope it will not 
                         We wish you the accuracy 
                           Of David's sling shot 
      
                         The world trusts America 
                          She stands by her word 
                        If the chance does come by 
                           Flip Saddam your bird 
      
                            Wake up! Take five! 
                            And ponder your way 
                           The reason is simple 
                            For freedom you pay 
     













     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 89
     Volume  4, Number 12                           December 14, 1990

                         Whaddya MEAN - NO FLAG!!!
                             By: Jerry Hindle
                       NamVet's Distribution Manager
                       M.R.M.S. Mk VII - Memphis, TN
                        (901) 683-5410 (Mail Only)
               (From VIETNAM_VETS Mon Dec 03 1990  22:14:01)
     
     I just saw on the news where OUR TROOPS are being ordered NOT to 
     fly the US flag while in Saudi Arabia during Operation Desert 
     Shield. They have even been ordered to take the flags off their 
     shoulder patches. This is all due to the fact that the Suadi's 
     "might be" offended by the US flag. To this I say too bad. If the 
     Suadi's want our help they need to be prepared to allow us to use 
     our flag, otherwise I am now taking the psoition that if they are 
     so offended then we should just leave and let them fight their own 
     dam war.
     
     One National Guard unit protested the decision and flew the flag 
     anyway whereupon the commander was instantly arrested and held for 
     refusing to obey an order....
      
     I SAY THIS SUCKS!
      
     I am immediately calling my congressman and senator tomorrow and 
     voicing my opposition to this decision. If the Suadi's want us to 
     fight for their protection then they will have to start giving in 
     to our needs more or do their own fighting.
      
     I URGE ANYONE who saw this report and feels the same way as I to 
     voice this feeling to our elected officials and directly to the 
     president and let them know that unless the Suadi's immediately 
     reverse this decision that we will simply leave and let Hussain 
     have them.
      
     What do you say???
     























     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 90
     Volume  4, Number 12                           December 14, 1990

                             Top Ten in Saudi
                          Input by: Jim Hildwine
                 NamVet's Federal Benefits Section Editor
                     VETPoint 47 - Shady Side, MD
                             (413) 443-6313
     
     The following list of songs are the top ten requested from the 
     troops in SA. 
     
     How they're getting em I do not know.
     
     1.  We Gotta Get out of this place (Um heard that somewhere 
           before)
     2.  Leaving on a Jet Plane. (Darn I know that one from somewhere)
     3.  You can take this job and shove it. (ah memories)
     4.  Puff (Apache) the Magic Dragon (Now I know I know that but 
           where?)
     5.  Where have all the flowers gone? ( in sand?)
     6.  I got a feeling ( me too)
     7.  Rain Drops are falling on my head. (ah the rainy season hits 
           sa)
     8.  Does your chewing gum loose it's flavor on the bed post over 
           night?
     9.  Soldier Boy
     10. When I take my next vaction, it won't be over here.
     
     Top VCR Tapes Requested:
     1. Top Gun ( Very popular with marine airdales)
     2. The Wizard of OZ (any thing is better then this place)
     3. Glory (keeping in the American Spirt)
     4. Jane Fonda's Workout (sorry guys too much T/A, plus is 
          blacklisted)
     5. All John Wayne Movies.
     
     Least request are the following:
     Rambo 1,2,3,4,5,6,?????
     Rocky 1,2,3,4,5,?????
     
     Most sought after Mag's (which are banned in the sa.
     Playboy, Playgirl, etc.
     
     Most requested item's from home Tabasco, WD 40, Q Tips (gets the 
     sand out of your ears)
     
     Most Looked for item by all troops: 
     M A I L  From HOME!!!!!!!!!
     
     Federal Benefits?  Ask me!!!
     
         - Jim -
     








     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 91
     Volume  4, Number 12                           December 14, 1990



     =================================================================
           U n c l e   S a m   w a n t s   Y O U   t o   k n o w
     =================================================================

                           Follies on the Hill?
                      From December 1990 DAV Magazine
                         Input by: G. Joseph Peck
                         NamVet's Managing Editor
                        VETLInk #1 - Pittsfield, MA
                              (413) 443-6313
     
        Has  Congress  lost  its sense of  human  priorities?   Do  our 
     elected Representatives and Senators give greater value to methane 
     emissions,  the  House beauty parlor,  and a Lawrence Welk  museum 
     than to disabled veterans?
     
        "Yes"  would  seem to be the answer,  according to some federal 
     funding projects that Capitol Hill saw fit to pass on the one hand 
     while denying disabled veterans a cost-of-living adjustment on the 
     other.  Here are some examples, among others, that came out of the 
     Fiscal Year 1991 budget passed by the 101st Congress:
     
        -> $19 million   to  study  the  methane  emissions  from   the 
           flatulence of cows and other barnyard animals;
     
        -> $375,000 for a face-lift for the House beauty parlor;
     
        -> $250,000  top study placement of television lighting on  the 
           Senate floor;
     
        -> $2.5 billion in tax breaks for the oil and gas industry; and
     
        -> $500,000 for the town of Strasburg, North Dakota, to build a 
     museum honoring band leader Lawrence Welk.
     
        Also,  Congressional  representatives  voted  themselves  a  25 
     percent  pay raise that will increase their salaries from  $98,000 
     to $125,000 a year.
     
        While DAV National Commander Joseph E. Andry said he found some 
     of  the  federal expenditures amusing,  he added "they're  not  so 
     funny  when you consider that men and women who are injured  while 
     defending  this  nation  will not be  receiving  a  cost-of-living 
     adjustment for their disability compensation.   At times,  this is 
     what  we're dealing with in Washington,  a total disregard for the 
     real, human needs in this country."
     
     =*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=
     
     [Note from Joe:  How's about we put a QUALIFIER on the salaries of 
     elected officials?  A QUALIFIER kinda like:  In order to receive a 
     pension for their government service,  a period of a minimum of 9-
     months active duty in any branch of the military currently engaged 
     in operations OUTSIDE of the U.S.?  Betchya THEN we might see some 
     truly dedicated commitment!]
     



     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 92
     Volume  4, Number 12                           December 14, 1990

          
          
                       _     ______   _______  __    _  _______
                      /\\    H    M   H        H\\   H  HHHHHHH
                     /  \\   H        H        H \\  H     H
                    /====\\  H   HHH  HHH      H  \\ H     H
                   /      \\ H_____H  H______  H   \\H     H
              ______    ______      _     __    _  ______   _______
              H     H  H     /)    /\\    H\\   H  H    M   H
              H     H  H____//    /  \\   H \\  H  H        H
              H     H  H   \\    /====\\  H  \\ H  H   HHH  HHH
              H_____H  H    \\  /      \\ H   \\H  H_____M  H______
          
-- 
#L.W. Jewell Moderator at the Veterans Information Site (veteran@cc.purdue.edu)#
#& WWII-L Listowner: "Sunday's horoscope is note worthy because of its strange,#
#sudden and wholly unpredictable and inexplicable occurrences, affecting all   #
#phases of life." "Your Horoscope" L.A. Evening Herald Express, Sat, 12/06/41  #