HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mimir@hardy.u.washington.edu (Al Billings)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Fremen Unite!!!!!
Date: 25 Dec 92 06:58:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Dec25.065841.24461
Organization: The Friends of Loki Society

In article <1992Dec22.101850.1@woods.ulowell.edu> howsonj@woods.ulowell.edu writes:
>Achlan wasachlan (Welcome twice welcome). It's me again. I'm not sure but I got
>,an inside tip that there are plans to make a sequal to the movie, Dune. Tell
>me what you think. Thanx.

 Who cares about a sequel? I want them to release the full 10 hour version
(which they filmed) on tape. Herbet was hoping they would do it as a TV
miniseries before he died.

Wassail,
Al
From: dietz@cs.rochester.edu (Paul Dietz)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: John Woods Campbell (was: Re: Political Correctness + Sci-fi)
Date: 29 Dec 92 23:53:18 GMT
Followup-To: rec.arts.sf.science
Organization: University of Rochester

In article <1jyQnK#2sc2r75z3Q0d8ROvHg7mTzsk=esr@snark.thyrsus.com> esr@snark.thyrsus.com (Eric S. Raymond) writes:

> For that matter, the final verdict on the Dean drive isn't in yet; the
> research that would have done so was defunded for political reasons in
> the early 70s and never resumed. There's an extension of Newtonian
> mechanics that adds a `surge' term reflecting the fact that objects
> don't respond instantaneously to applied force --- the pressure wave
> needs time to propagate from point of application across the object,
> and this can interact with velocity and elasticity in some ways that
> conventional theory does not predict.  This extension (the "Davis
> Mechanics" of Heinlein's _Podkayne_Of_Mars_, named after the
> developer, Greg O. Davis) actually predicts and models the Dean Drive.

Oh, come now.  It was defunded because it was obviously nonsense.
Dean's supposed drive had a perfectly good mundane explanation -- a
known kind of measurement error -- and grave theoretical problems.
Any "reactionless drive" is a perpetual motion machine of the first
kind: if you violate conservation of momentum in one reference frame,
you are violating conservation of energy in another.

I recall that someone took Davis mechanics seriously and applied it to
situations in which accelerations are changing rapidly (for example,
to atoms or molecules).  The conclusion was that energy would be
nonconserved (objects would tend to spontaneously heat up) on a scale
incompatible with observation by many, many orders of magnitude.  This
is sufficient to relegate Davis's theory to the dustbin.

	Paul F. Dietz
	dietz@cs.rochester.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig)
Subject: Re: Tom Godwin
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 23:46:40 GMT

Tom Godwin published too little.  There's the unforgetable "Space Prison"
(aka "The Survivors").  Its sequel, "The Space Barbarians", is 
shallower and more cliched, but I liked it better than SP when I
was in my teens.  His third novel, "Beyond Another Sun", was unrelated
to the first two, and not very good.  Then there's his best-known work,
the short story "The Cold Equations", which remains powerful despite
its artificial premises.  I'm not sure what other short stories he wrote.
(I don't know whether he's alive or not, still writing or not.)

Godwin's books are medium-hard to find.  I see each of them in a used book
store once every two or three years. 

-----
Dani Zweig
dani@netcom.com

   It was mentioned on CNN that the new prime number discovered
   recently is four times bigger then the previous record.
				-- John Blasik
From: gt6249c@prism.gatech.EDU (The Corinthian)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Paranoia novel?
Date: 27 Dec 92 01:09:30 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Cracker Barrel


Does anybody know if there's ever a novel based on the Paranoia game?
One of my friends assures me that he saw one, but he doesn't recall
the title or author. 



Bin
  
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: pnh@panix.com (Patrick Nielsen-Hayden)
Subject: Re: easy-to-confuse author names
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 20:56:42 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC

In a further irony, of course, Lester del Rey didn't write TUNNEL THROUGH
TIME or THE RUNAWAY ROBOT.  According to NYC publishing lore and THE SF
BOOK OF LISTS by Malcolm Edwards and Maxim Jakubowski, del Rey hired Paul
W. Fairman to write them, after Lester had signed the contracts and run
straight into a spell of writer's block.

-- 
Patrick Nielsen Hayden      :     senior editor, Tor Books
pnh@panix.com : CIS 72701,1344 : GEnie PNH : opinions mine
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: "jonathan forbes" <jonathan.forbes@canrem.com>
Subject: the wheel of time
Reply-To: "jonathan forbes" <jonathan.forbes@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: rec
Date: 21 Dec 92 09:05:50 EST

-> The problem with this model is that it seems to imply
-> that stilling is, indeed, permanent.  To think otherwise implies that
-> the thread-like connection can be re-established after the sharp
-> shield is down.  This is hardly impossible, but it needs a
-> justification for why no other woman or man has done it.

Perhaps it takes a lot of Aes Sedai to un-still someone (it sounds like
it usually takes quite a lot of Aes Sedai to still someone, although
Nynaeve is an exception).  If an "evildoer" in the older ages were
stilled, perhaps there just weren't enough people around to un-still
him/her.  Perhaps stilling is a relative thing, and someone can be more
permanently stilled than someone else.  The whole process just isn't
described anywhere...


-> Agreed.  Maybe Callandor will help him to ungentle himself.

Maybe Rand might even use the figurine, which is more powerful than
Callandor, to ungentle Logain (if he finds him and decides to - if
Logain and his previous-Aes Sedai companions get along, perhaps they'll
convince Rand to do it if he can).

-> Well, I found it perfectly in character for Galad, but also for
-> Gawyn.  Remember, all Gawyn knows of things is that Suian Sanche
-> keeps a hell of a lot of secrets from everyone.  He's damned sure
-> that she's lying about Egwene and the others-- why shouldn't she lie
-> about anything else?  Besides, he's probably never really

I was gaping somewhat when I read that part of the book; it was just so
unexpected; having read a lot of SF, I had figured naturally that
Galad/Gawyn might be "for the cause".  I was "pleasantly" (if that can
be the right word) surprised at their actions.

The Shadow Rising appeared to have a lot more bite to it than the
earlier books, with Perrin's family getting killed and the things
happening in the Tower.  Very refreshing and unpredictable.

It'll be interesting to see what Elaida does; I'm surprised she did what
she did, since there's no real indication that she's a Darkfriend yet.
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: durrell@pinball.arcade.uiowa.edu (Bryant Durrell)
Subject: Re: David Eddings: The Sapphire Rose
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 15:34:37 GMT
Organization: University of Iowa

In article <1992Dec23.150808.23988@cs.unca.edu> mcmahan@cs.unca.edu (Scott McMahan -- Genesis mailing list owner) writes:
>People ought to say enough is enough and refuse to be extorted by the
>publishers. No author is worth $6 for a paperback. Boycott this
>garbage!!!

I think you're right -- 6 bucks is a *lot* -- but I also think we'd
best get used to it.  $6 is not unusual for a new paperback anymore.
New mainstream paperbacks are getting up there, and I think I saw
something at $7 the other day.

-- 
Bryant Durrell					   durrell@chop.isca.uiowa.edu
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                 I feed on the flesh of the living, and I vote.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig)
Subject: Re: Heroic Fantasy: Jordan vs Williams
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 22:46:37 GMT

chuahl@ocf.berkeley.edu (Chua HakLien):
>From a quick random read, it seems that Williams
>is more eloquent and reads better, while Jordan's prose is more clumsy.

I'd say that Williams has the better prose, but that Jordan is telling a 
bigger and more interesting story.  Depends what you're looking for.  

-----
Dani Zweig
dani@netcom.com

  The surface of the strange, forbidden planet was roughly textured and green,
  much like cottage cheese gets way after the date on the lid says it is all 
  right to buy it.--Scott Jones
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: agc@bmdhh286.bnr.ca (Alan Carter)
Subject: Re: Niven/Mote in God's Eye
Organization: BNR-Europe-Limited, Maidenhead, England
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 18:10:25 GMT

In article <SSAMMY.92Dec21173449@fleming-03.cs.strath.ac.uk>, ssammy@cs.strath.ac.uk (Paul Sammy 4th Year iE/CES) writes:
|> 
|>  You *must* read the Integral Trees, and the followups.
|>  Also Lucifers (sp?) Hammer, which is the best invasion from
|>  space books ever.

This may be a confusion between Lucifers Hammer (big rock) and Footfall
(big aliens). I personally preferred the big rock book.

   Alan

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
   Maidenhead itself is too snobby to be pleasant. It is the haunt of the
   river swell and his overdressed female companion. It is the town of showy
   hotels, patronized chiefly by dudes and ballet girls. 

   Three Men In A Boat, Jerome K. Jerome, 1889
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: mrizzo@mpd.tandem.com (Mike Rizzo)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Rama II questions
Date: 31 Dec 92 18:40:07 GMT
Reply-To: mrizzo@allwedo.UUCP (Mike Rizzo)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Tandem Inc.

I just finished RAMA II. It wasn't that good after all. I kept hoping
it would come together; that the original awe-inspiring	conception which 
peered through now and then would, in the end, win out over the PC and word 
count boosters. Almost to the end it could have. Sadly, it didn't.

It would be easy to say that the good parts were obviously Clark and the 
bad parts were done by Lee. But can anyone actually say or make an educated
guess? For example, is there a consensus that the silly dream sequences and 
mystical episodes were done by Lee? And did Clark lend little more that his 
name to this book?

Based on RAMA II, I think I will pass on the Garden of Rama. Will I be 
missing anything?
From: hairy@sloth.equinox.gen.nz (Phil Anderson)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Solomon Kane: How many stories? 
Distribution: world
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 92 09:03:34 GMT
Organization: Lethargy Inc.


In article <1ha1v0INNda1@agate.berkeley.edu> chuahl@ocf.berkeley.edu writes:

  > How many Solomon Kane stories did Robert E. Howard write, and where
  > might they be found? I think he's a much more intriguing character
  > than Conan, but haven't EVER been able to find any Kane books either
  > in the library or the bookstores.

According to the introduction to a 3-story Kane collection, "The Moon 
of Skulls" (pub. Peter Haddock Ltd, 1968), there are 12 stories and 3 
poems, which can be found in "Red Shadows" (pub. Donald M. Grant). It 
mentions also a collection called "The Hand of Kane" (Centaur Press).

 ----------------------------------------------
 Phil Anderson  ***  hairy@sloth.equinox.gen.nz
 ----------------------------------------------
       "No-one is equal to anyone else!"
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: Crawford_Kilian@mindlink.bc.ca (Crawford Kilian)
Subject: Re: Political Correctness + Sci-fi
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 17:30:34 GMT

David Stein takes issue with me as follows:

 How far must one go to make sense of labeling
   crankiness, bigotry and "girls are emotional and dumb" attitudes as
   political?

Those attitudes are political insofar as they prescribe certain kinds of
actions towards certain kinds of people with whom we share the planet. To
assume that girls are emotional and dumb is to assume they'd be useless as
shuttle pilots; to assume that people of a certain race have certain talents
and lack certain others is equally political. As for Campbell's crankiness,
it led him (as with many cranks) to suppose that governmental lack of
sympathy with his enthusiasms was proof of the failure of government. To the
extent that his attitudes came through in his editorials and in the kinds of
stories he bought, he made his magazine a conduit for politics of a
particularly eerie kind. A generation of young gowks like me, flattered
witless at being thought worth talking to, absorbed more of Campbell's
attitudes than was probably healthy for us.


--
Crawford Kilian   Communications Department   Capilano College
North Vancouver BC Canada V7J 3H5
Usenet: Crawford_Kilian@mindlink.bc.ca
Internet: ckilian@first.etc.bc.ca

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: dstein@oak.math.ucla.edu (David Stein)
Subject: Re: John Woods Campbell
Reply-To: dstein@oak.math.ucla.edu (David Stein)
Organization: UCLA Mathematics Department
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 93 15:08:49 GMT


Jim Mann writes:
 
|> The overwhelming consensus in the SF field is that Campbell
|> was a major contributor, and vital to the founding of
|> "modern SF."   If you don't think that he is, perhaps YOU
|> should present some evidence to show this.

  PLEASE do leave what I write in the context in which it was written.

  I pointed out to Raymond that his sweeping assertions -- MUCH 
  stronger than the "consensus" you mention -- could use some
  argument, evidence, and sound logic.

  I did not *argue* that Campbell had no influence on SF.  Your last
  sentence is uncalled for.
      
  As to the evidence you mention in reaction to my last paragraph,
  I appreciate it, though I must say I found it somewhat off the mark. 

  I can see that Campbell had influence, and that many of those whose
  respect and money came in part from their association with Campbell
  had a high opinion of him, though just how high seems to change from
  a person to person, and even from time to time (Asimov).

  Yet when I ask a few specific questions in order to comprehand 
  how the quantity of Campbell's influence turned to quality and
  singularity, the only answer I hear is "read so and so".

  Why is it so difficult to communicate just what did Campbell do
  beyond the lifting of general literary and plausibility standards?
  Even Gharlane of Eddore's tribute does not go much beyond this.

  The only specific examples I've seen come from those who dislike
  Campbell's influence.

 - David

p.s.  Your two reactions to my articles make me wonder if you hold
the philosophy of `least resistance'.

  First, you declare my opinion on "Cold Equations" wrong and supply
the version that is the simplest and most easily obtained from the
story (so far I have not received a reaction from you to my answer).
And then you cite the obvious to support a widely shared view of 
Campbell, not showing much thought on how deep this evidence runs, 
or just what it proves.

  Life thought me that things are not always as they appear, nor as 
people want me to believe they are.  That's why I ask questions.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm not a native speaker of English, so I'm not sure what I wrote.
Flames will be ignored unless you post them in perfect Czech.
================================ - David (the metamathician) - ===
From: meltsner@crd.ge.com (Kenneth J. Meltsner)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: SF Islamic deficient?(was Re: Heinlein - Politically correct?)
Date: 29 Dec 92 18:30:45 GMT
Reply-To: meltsner@crd.ge.com
Organization: GE Research and Development Center



In article <1992Dec29.175156.28627@MorningStar.Com>,
chris@MorningStar.Com (Chris Miller) writes:

|>mab@wdl39.wdl.loral.com (Mark A Biggar) writes:

|>>The "Silence Leigh" triology by Milissa Scott is set in a Islamic space
|>>faring culture.  Two of the books are "five Twelth's of Heaven" and
|>>"Mistree so the Earth" and I don't remember the other one.

|>The books are: _Five Twelth's of Heaven_, _Silence in Solitude_, and 
|>_The Empress of Earth_. Sometimes collectively called _The Roads of Heaven_.
|>
|>A good read if you need a change from the usual formula rockets 'n spaceships
|>stuff.  I've never seen this concept of space travel copied Anywhere.

The first two really stand out as well-written and imaginative.  The
later books show a distinct drop in quality.  IMHO, Melissa Scott was
one of the most promising new writers, but had a noticeable slump with
subsequent books.  Her latest, the name of which escapes me, is
actually pretty good, so perhaps she's worked her way out of it.

Rumor has it that Baen Books had her deliver the later Silence novels
before they were totally finished.  I believe she now writes for Tor,
which could explain the marked improvement, since they tend to have
the best-edited books these days.*

A new Melissa Scott novel goes on my must-read pile.

* While I know one of their editors reads this group, it's an opinion,
not an attempt at sucking up.

===============================================================================
Ken Meltsner                        | meltsner@crd.ge.com (518) 387-6391
GE Research and Development Center  | Fax:  (518) 387-6474
P.O. Box 8, Room KWD270		    | Nothing I say should be attributed
Schenectady, NY 12301               | to my employer, and probably vice-versa
"It's probable, just not very likely." -- Fire Maidens From Outer Space.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: mab@wdl39.wdl.loral.com (Mark A Biggar)
Subject: Re: SF Islamic deficient?(was Re: Heinlein - Politically correct?)
Organization: Loral Western Development Labs
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 01:37:45 GMT

The "Silence Leigh" triology by Milissa Scott is set in a Islamic space
faring culture.  Two of the books are "five Twelth's of Heaven" and
"Mistree so the Earth" and I don't remember the other one.

--
Mark Biggar
mab@wdl1.wdl.loral.com
From: dave@cs.arizona.edu (Dave Schaumann)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Anarchy in S.F.
Date: 2 Jan 93 00:46:20 GMT
Reply-To: dave@cs.arizona.edu (Dave Schaumann)
Organization: University of Arizona

I haven't really been following this thread, so these might've been
mentioned already:

  _Peace War_ and _Marooned in Real Time_ by Vernor Vinge

Neither one is about anarchy directly, but I think the idea of
anarchy plays an important role in both stories...

-- 
Dave Schaumann			dave@cs.arizona.edu
From: rod@cats.ucsc.edu (Rodrick Su)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Heroic Fantasy: Jordan vs Williams
Date: 25 Dec 1992 01:51:54 GMT
Organization: Tigana Restoration Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: si.ucsc.edu


In article <1992Dec24.224637.15329@netcom.com> dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig) writes:
>chuahl@ocf.berkeley.edu (Chua HakLien):
>>From a quick random read, it seems that Williams
>>is more eloquent and reads better, while Jordan's prose is more clumsy.
>
>I'd say that Williams has the better prose, but that Jordan is telling a 
>bigger and more interesting story.  Depends what you're looking for.  
>

	Actually, it really depends on whether you wants a book on the
	scale, detail,  and approaching the quality of Tolkien, which would be
	William's trilogy, or something like Edding's novel, which is
	what Jordan is doing.  Make no mistake, I read both.  I need
	mind candy even more than mind nurishment.  If you want more than
	Eddingesque mind candy, then Williams is for you.  If you don't want
	to be mentally challenge, but just to be entertain, then, get 
	Jordan.
-- 
[ Rodrick Su           [ If at first you don't succeed, well, so much for    ]
[----------------------[ skydiving.                                          ]
[ rod@cats.ucsc.edu    ]------------------------[ ``Games of the Hangman''   ] 
[ rod@ucscb.ucsc.edu   ]------------------------[   Victor O'Reilly          ]
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: dstein@oak.math.ucla.edu (David Stein)
Subject: Re: John Woods Campbell
Reply-To: dstein@oak.math.ucla.edu (David Stein)
Organization: UCLA Mathematics Department
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 93 15:18:20 GMT

Ken Arromdee signs:

|> --
|> "On the first day after Christmas my truelove served to me... 
Leftover Turkey!
|> On the second day after Christmas my truelove served to me...  Turkey
Casserole
|>     that she made from Leftover Turkey.
|> [days 3-4 deleted] ...  Flaming Turkey Wings! ...
|>    -- Pizza Hut commercial (and *****/***** bait)
                                   ^^^^^^^^^^^-------censored by net.un.forces

   PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE stop!!!  I, as a refugee from soc.culture.europe,
   strongly protest this blatant attempt to bring forth the Armageddon.

   Have mercy!
From: max@west.darkside.com (Erik Max Francis)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Niven/Mote in God's Eye
Date: 27 Dec 92 19:22:30 GMT
Organization: The Dark Side of the Moon +1 408 245 SPAM

bleys@wisdom.bubble.org (Bill Cavanaugh) writes:

> Descent IS in the same universe, but never really mentions Dream Park.  I
> think the third book mentioned was California Voodoo.

Yeah.  _Dream Park_ isn't mentioned in _Descent of Anansi_, but 
references within the Dream Park universe make it pretty clear that the 
timelines are at least related . . .


  ____  Erik Max Francis -- ..!apple!uuwest!max -- max@west.darkside.com   __
  \  /  1070 Oakmont Dr. #1  San Jose, CA  95117  37 20 N 121 53 W  ACGT  /  \
   \/   Like strategic interstellar conquest games?  Ask about UNIVERSE!  \__/
        Omnia quia sunt, lumina sunt.   All things that are, are lights.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: ecl@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (Evelyn C. Leeper)
Subject: Re: ESCAPE FROM KATHMANDU by Kim Stanley Robinson
Organization: AT&T
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 22:26:13 GMT

In article <9212271326.AA10726@media.mit.edu> wex@media.mit.edu
(Alan Wexelblat) writes:
> Calling this book a novel is somewhat misleading.  It's really a connected
> series of short stories ...
> 
> The book's major flaw is in its tone.  For about the first three quarters,
> it is light-hearted, with lots of laughs and lots of fun.  However, it takes
> a sudden turn for the grim in the last section. ...
> 
> Does that make this a bad book?  No, just one by an author with not-yet-
> enough experience.

Given that the stories were published over a period of several years in
IASFM, it's not surprising that the novel has a cobbled-together feel.

Also given that the tone of the stories was what it was from their
initial publication, it would be difficult to avoid the sudden turn.

I think what has happened is that KSR (BTW, I believe he goes by "Stan"
rather than "Kim") is that he started his career with some frivolous
stuff, but has gradually moved towards a more serious and thoughtful
tone, and trying to build a novel of stories from various periods in
his career will inevitably lead to this "disconnection."

As I said in another thread, KSR is on my auto-buy list.  He seems to
me the author who best puts a feeling for the flow of history in his
science fiction ("Vinland the Dream" and "A History of the Twentieth
Century, with Illustrations," for example, although those may well be
considered non-SF).  And his newest, RED MARS, is next on my to-read
stack, easily jumping the queue in front of anything else waiting
there.

Evelyn C. Leeper  |  +1 908 957 2070  |  att!mtgzy!ecl or  ecl@mtgzy.att.com
--
"God does not play dice with the universe."  --Albert Einstein
"Albert, stop telling God what to do."  --Niels Bohr
Xref: sparky rec.arts.sf.written:16823 rec.arts.sf.science:3888 sci.physics:21952 sci.skeptic:21865