HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: zardoz@rx-db (zardoz@rx-db.hf.intel.com)
Subject: Re: Flying in to Long Beach to see the Spruce Goose (seeking information)
Organization: Intel Development Tools Operation, Hillsboro, OR
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 19:01:43 GMT

In article <9208080008.AA02805@bodi.portal.com> karl@bodi.portal.com (Karl Kraft) writes:
>You wrote:
>>A few of us from our local flying club are planning on a going to LA
>>(Long Beach, LGB) to see the Spruce Goose on 8/15, before they move
>>it to Oregon.  
>
>This is the first I've heard of this.   How are they planning on moving it to Oregon?  Are  
>they going to fly it there?  Or something less dramatic?
>
I recently talked with someone who knew about this.  I was told it would be
barged up the ocean and then trucked in.  In pieces of course.  I'll just
have to wait and see as I'm about 20 mi. from MMV, its destination.
I haven't had reason to fly to MMV since the C-97 left.  The R-4360's
never failed to impress me.  Speaking of R-4360's, the quarter-section
display unit of one of these fine 28 cyl. radial engines has been
located by me at my own Airport, 1S4, Scappoose, Or.  It's been rolling
around on a caster board all summer looking for a home.  The PCC A&P
college apparently owns it now.  I haven't seen it since it left OMSI.
The ancient sectioned turbo jet engine is also following it around.
After looking at the R-4360, the R-3300's on the B-29 that recently
visited HIO didn't look too big.  The B-24 was there also.  The CAF told
me it costs them $3000 and $2000/hr the fly them, respectively.  I don't
buy it.

>
>--
>Karl Kraft
>karl@bodi.portal.com  (NeXT mail)


-- 
Fan mail may be sent to:                            | Poke-salad Annie;
zardoz@rx-db.hf.intel.com                           | The gators got yer granny.
From: milgram@eng.umd.edu (Judah Milgram)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Manuverability of 727
Date: 16 Aug 92 02:09:46 GMT
Organization: College of Engineering, University of Maryland, College Park

In article <SHAFER.92Aug14175030@ra.dfrf.nasa.gov> shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Mary Shafer) writes:

>I've never seen a doghouse plot for a 727, so I can't be more specific.


What's a doghouse plot?



Judah Milgram      milgram@eng.umd.edu
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: ron@turing.toronto.edu (Ron Wessels)
Subject: Clearing customs
Organization: CSRI, University of Toronto
Date: 13 Aug 92 01:21:03 GMT

In article <ty4mgdq@quantum.on.ca> aboyd@quantum.on.ca (Andrew Boyd) writes:
>Worse, you're not supposed to leave the a/c (even to pee) until the 
>US customs guy has said it's OK to.  I wonder if he made it to oshkosh?

True.  Although I'm not sure about staying in the aircraft, according
to a US customs brochure we got on our way to OSH, not giving 1 hour
notice for customs (even if you know a customs official will be at the
field) ranks right up there with attempting to evade customs altogether:
both can result in the summary impounding of your aircraft!

Yes, really!  In fact, the customs offical we had seemed genuinely
disappointed that we >had<, in fact, put "adcus" on our 2.5hr flight
plan, so he could not impound our airplane.  He even boasted that
he had impounded one "just last week".  This was at St. Clair County
airport in Port Huron, Michigan (PHN).

Certainly an eye-opening experience, and one that will forever change
the way I deal with US customs and border crossings.

[ Granted, all the other dealings I've had with US customs (at other
airports) have been neutral to pleasant, but it only takes one little man
with a big gun to ruin your whole day. ]

-- 
Ron Wessels		University of Toronto		ron@turing.toronto.edu
From: cosper@seq.uncwil.edu (Kit Cosper)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Colored Airways (was: Trip report to Alaska)
Date: 23 Aug 92 14:07:46 GMT
Organization: Univ. of North Carolina @ Wilmington

geoff@peck.com (Geoff Peck) writes:

>OK, now, does someone know why there are four different colors for airways?


	My wife's grandfather (who began his professional flying
	career with Piedmont Airlines in the 1940's flying DC-3's)
	explained it all to me one night over a bottle of Jack
	Daniels.  The details are a BIT (slight understatement :-)
	cloudy, but it is a throwback to the old radio beacons that
	emitted four primary "beams", and you had to rotate the antenna
	to tune the beam.  Each beam from each beacon was a different
	"color" so they could be distinguished.

	Any gross inaccuracies of the above should be addressed to
	the folks in Tennessee.


	Kit

-- 
   Kit Cosper                        cosper@seq.uncwil.edu         
   PP-ASEL-IA                        AMA 31022
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: pilla@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (michael.a.pilla)
Subject: Re: Locked on the Controls (was GLiding instruction)
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 14:39:56 GMT

In article <Y2-1O0HY4@linac.fnal.gov> carlson@linac.fnal.gov (Kermit Carlson) writes:
>    I hope that I never have to findout what the most effective method
>really is to unlock a student from the controls.....But, the person
>who signed off my endorsement to take the CFI ride suggested covering
>a person's eyes or hitting above their knee. When I asked if it worked
>for him he told me that the worst  he had encountered was in an AT-6
>during his days as an Army instructor, with no option but to wrestle
>the stick.... maybe that MAGLITE flashlight idea isnt so far off the
>mark...


I've had to wrestle the stick many times, but, fortunately I'm
fairly big and strong.  Unfortunately, I had one student, an
Israeli Air Force Sarge whose English wasn't that great.  After
the usual ground discussions, we get in the trusty C-150 and he
proceeds to place both hands on the yoke.  I explain that one
hand is 1) sufficient to fly and 2) necessary for my survival :-)

However, he kept grabbing with both hands.  He had had previous
training, so I had him make the takeoff.  He proceeds to keep
grabbing the yoke and has a very unsafe pitch attitude, in fact
the stall horn is now blaring at about 75' AGL.  Meanwhile, I'm
trying to whack at least one hand off the yoke because his
arms were about as thick as my thighs and I could not overpower
him.  I realized that the situation required both of my hands
pushing with everything I had to prevent a low altitude stall so
I could not "whack him any more" and verbal shouts did nothing.  

Finally, I had to bring my knees up in front of the yoke to
prevent any further back pressure and use both of my hands to
pry his hands from the yoke (repeated exclammations of "I've got
it...", discussed before the flight, accomplished nothing)

Needless to say, I then understood some of the cryptic comments
entered in his logbook by previous instructors. :-)

I have also had glider students pull full spoilers and "freeze"
while close to the ground.  I use the trick someone mentioned in
a previous posting; keep my hand about at the limit of spoilers
so that they hit my hand before they get too far.  But, I've had
my share of hard landings when I became too comfortable with a
student's flying, relaxed my defensive procedures, and they
subsequently had a "brain lapse".  All part of the game.

Mike Pilla

Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: masys@nlm.nih.gov (Dr. Daniel R. Masys)
Subject: Re: Dip Gauges
Organization: National Library of Medicine
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 12:17:28 GMT

In article <Lyon_Jim-120892141323@130.252.133.166> Lyon_Jim@Tandem.Com (Jim Lyon) writes:
>
>While enroute to Oshkosh '90, in a Cessna 182Q with long-range tanks,
>and a dip gauge for a Cessna 182Q with long-range tanks, I nearly ran
>out of fuel.
...
>So, the error at the low end of the scale was in the range of 7 to 8
>gallons per side, or more than an hour's worth of fuel. 

Sigh.  I only wish that 7-8 gallons was more than an hour's worth of
fuel in a 182.  Planning on that will only get you about 30 minutes
to think about it :-(.

Dan Masys
masys@nlm.nih.gov
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Goodyear Blimp
From: Aron Eisenpress <AFECU@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Wednesday, 12 Aug 1992 10:14:47 EDT
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center

In article <1992Aug10.205422.29990@news.csd.sgi.com>, rosso@roscoe.csd.sgi.com
says:
>
>There is a book I once saw called "The Blimp Book" written by someone
>with a close affiliation with Goodyear.  Although mostly a picturebook
>promoting the blimps (there are two of them) as ambassadors of goodwill,
>there was a collection of technical data in the appendix: cruising speed,
>gross weight, powerplants (Lycoming, I think), etc.  It also said the blimps
>are certified for IFR.  Sorry, I don't recall the author or publisher.

_The_Blimp_Book_, text by George Larson, photography by George Hall and
Baron Wolman, published by SQUAREBOOKS (PO Box 144, Mill Valley, CA 94941),
1977; ISBN 0-916290-04-2 (hardcover), 0-916290-05-0 (softcover).  I picked
it up some time ago and think it was remaindered then, so I have no idea
if it's still available.  There's a good deal of text, not just photos.
And it says there are four Goodyear blimps.
-------

 -- Aron Eisenpress, City U of NY
    (AFECU@CUNYVM.BITNET, or AFECU@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU on the Internet)
From: lafford@serum.kodak.com (Rick Lafford)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Gliders and FAQ
Date: 19 Aug 92 21:18:29 GMT
Reply-To: lafford@serum.kodak.com (Rick Lafford)
Organization: Clinical Products Division, Eastman Kodak Company

If anyone out there is in the Upstate NY area, the Rochester Soaring
Club offers several ways to fly with us.

1.	3 lesson package for $75
2.	$15 daily membership for those with a ship to fly (includes tow).
3.	$35 'ride', if you're a licensed pilot no problem with flying the ship.
4.	Join the club. 

We have 2 2-33's, a 1-26, a 1-34, a Blanik, Citabria and Pawnee. Initial
fee is $350 ($150 refundable) and $15 a month dues. A 2,000' tow costs
$14 and instruction is free. We fly out of Dansville, NY airport. Info
can be had from me either on the net or at (716)235-9042.

	Rick

Rick Lafford  Eastman Kodak Co.  | If you vote for the same old
Clinical Products Div.                  | lot, you'll get what you've
lafford@serum.kodak.com            | always got.  - me
From: jimm@simsol.UUCP (Jim Morris)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: That would never happen to me...BUT
Date: 11 Aug 92 18:09:32 GMT
Article-I.D.: simsol.172
Organization: Systems Simulation Solutions, Beaverton, OR

In article <1992Aug10.191409.4269@peck.com>, geoff@peck.com (Geoff Peck) writes:
> Pipers have tabs.  Either fill the tank or use the tabs.  Cessnas don't have
> tabs.  Fill the tanks, and learn how the particular aircraft you fly consume
> fuel, the way _you_ fly them.  Then you can estimate fuel consumption and
> fuel remaining based on time.

I think it is a little more complicated than this in Cessnas.  I use a
dip gauge that I have carefully calibrated during a fillup into a dry
tank.  I do have a newer 182, so I do not have bladders. The tanks are
aluminum.

Leaving Elko, NV, (altitude ~5100 ft.) the other day, the temperature
was 92 degrees, I had four adults and lots of baggage on board.  If I
were to fill up the tanks I would have been over gross weight in an
8500 feet density altitude condition.  My dip gauges allowed me to be
very precise with the amount of fuel that I carried.  They work very
well for me.
From: thisted@galton.uchicago.edu (Ronald A. Thisted)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Circle-to-land: which direction?
Date: 18 Aug 92 00:00:22 GMT
Organization: Dept of Statistics, Univ of Chicago

In article <jcmorris.714081534@mwunix> jcmorris@mwunix.mitre.org (Joe
Morris) raises the following issue about announcing intentions when
executing an opposite-direction circle-to-land approach:

>  Aircraft landing at this airport are cleared for ILS 16L circle to
>  land on 34 R. During the approach the tower asks the pilot which
>  way he will circle; What sayeth the net: should the pilot's approach
>  be described as "circle left" (of the centerline) or "circle right"
>  (making right turns)?  Or should left/right be explicitly excluded
>  from the description because of the ambiguity?

How about, "One Four Lima will make right traffic for 34R."

Ron Thisted
Department of Statistics/The University of Chicago
thisted@galton.uchicago.edu
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: greg@saltydog.dpsi.com (Gregory R. Travis)
Subject: Re: Lycoming Engine Suffixes
Organization: Data Parallel Systems, Inc
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 17:04:21 GMT

In <1992Aug10.172852.20921@dg-rtp.dg.com> westerhold@gotham.rtp.dg.com () writes:

>Some not so interesting trivia from the manual on 0-320 H series engines.

No such thing as unintersting triva about the -H series!

>Did you know (or care) that Lycoming certificated 6 versions of the 
>0-320 H series engine, the H1AD, H2AD, H3AD, H1BD, H2BD, and H3BD?

Yes, and that most of the differences have to do with accessories
such as provisions for CS props or ACROBATIC usage.

>Did you know (or care) that the H2AD was used in the Cessna 172 
>and the Partenavia P-66C. So the next time you are looking for H2AD 
>parts don't forget to call your local Partenavia dealer ;->.

And, did you know (or care), that the Lycoming O-360-E series are just
180HP versions of the O-320-H series and that they share equivalent
valvetrains, oil pumps, etc. as well as the requirement for TCP
additive in the oil?  O-360-Es were used in the Piper Twin
Seminoles and some other aircraft.

Don't have my books with me here, but there is also an O-540 Lycoming
that requires the TCP additive.  I'll look up the model later.

greg, -H2AD owner with 3200TT, 700SMOH, not a cent paid for anything
other than oil changes and the major overhaul.  78/76/78/78
--
Gregory Reed Travis				D  P  S  I
Data Parallel Systems Incorporated   greg@dpsi.com (For MX mailers only!)
Bloomington, IN			     greg@indiana.edu (For the others)
From: Steve_Grant@kcbbs.gen.nz (Steve Grant)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Moving map display
Date: 13 Aug 92 04:05:24 GMT
Article-I.D.: kcbbs.14724.2259225396
Organization: Kappa Crucis Unix BBS, Auckland, New Zealand

hello David,
           I am having trouble emailing you can you please send me some 
email again and I will try to reply, thanks 

Steve
From: kzk00@ccc.amdahl.com (  200  Klaus Kraemer)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Precision Circling Approaches
Keywords: IFR
Date: 17 Aug 92 17:31:55 GMT
Reply-To: kzk00@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (  200  Klaus Kraemer)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

>
>!An ILS approach clearance "circle to land" on a runway other than
>!the one named in the approach (e.g., Arcata, CA, ILS Rwy 32, circle to
>!land runway 14) is a precision approach up to the point where the
>!glideslope intercepts the MDA for circling approaches. That is, FAF
>!(final approach fix) is at glideslope intercept, not the outer marker as
>!it would be on a non-precision approach, and the glideslope IS TO BE
>!FOLLOWED down to MDA. At this point, the approach becomes a non-precision
>!approach, and you better have your clock started at the marker because the
>!MAP is now determined by timing (usually), not by arrival at a certain
>!Altitude.
>
>Well here is a somewhat different case. What would you do?
>
>You are cleared for the ILS at an uncontroled airport,
>know that you have a slight tailwind and are choosing
>to make a downwind landing.
>
>You breakout at midfield, too far down the runway to land -- tailwind
>you know -- but see the intersecting runway (say at a 25 degree +-
>intersecting angle) clearly.
>
>Would you circle to land upwind on the intersecting runway?
>
>Bet you would -- instinctively.
>
>Dave Rogers


What I would do? Make up my mind before I break out of the clouds.
Being cleared for the ILS (approach) at an uncontrolled field,
I can land on any runway I want (assuming the ceiling is so low
there is no conflicting VFR traffic). So when I know about the
wind conditions I would decide on making a circling approach
before and descend only to the appropriate MDA; if I'm still in
the soup, a missed approach is called for. I suggest NOT to change
plans at this moment and make a straight-in when the wind is that
bad. Fling a missed and return for another approach seems to be a better
option.

Certainly I would not "breakout at midfield, too far down the runway
to land -- tailwind you know --" because that implies that I did not
follow the glideslope to DA. One simply does not "end up" at midfield.
If I really hadn't thought about the tailwind but followed the glideslope,
a steeper descent would have been required but I still would be in the
right position at DA.

If at that time I'd decide to change my plans and do a circle-to-land,
I would say that I have set myself up for a major inconvenience if I'd
try to circle at DA altitude. Missed is the only answer.

Klaus Kraemer, PP-ASEL IA, Mooney N201MX
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: kerry@Ingres.COM (Kerry Kurasaki)
Subject: Re: Precision Circling Approaches
Keywords: IFR
Reply-To: kerry@Ingres.COM (Kerry Kurasaki)
Organization: Ask Computer Systems Inc., Ingres Division, Alameda CA 94501
Distribution: usa
Date: 14 Aug 92 18:41:11 GMT

In article <71196@apple.Apple.COM> rcm@Apple.COM (Robert Charles Monsen) writes:
>I have a question about circling procedures on an ILS. The question is,
>where is the MAP? If its an ILS, the MAP is defined as the intersection
>of the DH and the glideslope. However, for circling approaches, that would
>put one far out the glideslope, perhaps miles, when beginning the missed
>approach procedure. (for an 800' circling altitude, thats almost 3 miles
>on a 3 degree glideslope).
>
The question is approach specific.  For a straight-in ILS, the MAP is
at the intersection of the DH and glideslope.  You fly a circling ILS
differently.  e.g. you level out at the circling altitude and follow it
to the circling MAP, which had better be clearly marked on the approach
plate.

>I suspect that circling approaches are only defined for non-precision
>procedures, and that the MAP is always defined the same way the corresponding
>MAP for the non-precision approach is defined, either time, cross fix, or DME.
>If there are circling minimums for an ILS, they apply to the corresponding
>localizer approach.
>
>Well? I can't find a reference in the AIM to confirm or deny this. 

The reference you want in in the TERPS manual.  Terminal instrument
procedures.  If someone really wants, I'll find the GPO reference number
for you to order.

Kerry
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: bnk@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Bob N Keenan)
Subject: **Where can I get the PELTOR 7004 system for cheap??***
Originator: bnk@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 14:25:58 GMT

Hello Net-


I am looking for a place other than Sporty's that I can get the PELTOR
7004 Headset system. (most likely mail order). I have seen places
like in Trade-a-Plane that were much less expensive than Sporty's, but
I don't have the Magazine anymore and don't remember the names of the
companies.  I was just wondering what the absolute cheapest place is. 
If anyone one out there has any opinions, recomendations or whatever,
please e-mail me.
Thanks ahead of time!


-bob

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ Bob N. Keenan                     | disclaimER?? I don't even 
~ University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee | KNOW HER!!!            
~ bnk@csd4.csd.uwm.edu              |                         
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: rec.aviation,news.answers
From: petri@venus.iucf.indiana.edu (HOWARD PETRI)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Transition Glider to Power
Date: 20 Aug 92 21:11:02 GMT
Article-I.D.: usenet.BtAx3v.7wx
Reply-To: petri@venus.iucf.indiana.edu
Distribution: world
Organization: INDIANA U. CYCLOTRON FACILITY, BLOOMINGTON, IN
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4

In article <1992Aug19.171039.11455@hplabsz.hpl.hp.com>, laubach@hpl.hp.com (Mark Laubach) writes...
>Yes, I'm one of the few people who has added ASEL onto a PP-G ticket.
>I just did this in March after having my glider ticket for about three 
>years.  This route unfortunately doesn't buy you much in terms of time
>saving for getting the added rating.  But I'll detail my experiences
>with some short comments. 
>--
>Mark Laubach
>PP-ASEL-G(at)

     I like Mark above also did the transition from glider to power. I did
this about two years ago when I had about 100 hours in gliders. I have
mentioned this before on the net so I won't go into useless details. I
did it in a Citabria, a taildragger. I did this because I could and because
our tow plane is a Super Cub. If you want to tow and your club uses a 
taildragger you will need at least 25 hours in tail. Learning in tail will
automatically fulfill this requirement. As with Mark I found that I 
really didn't have any problem transitioning but that I still
did about 65 hours before taking my checkride. There is just too much to
do and one should really do it. After all this is a learning experience for
which you are spending good money; get the most out of it. I didn't even 
consider crediting 10 hours of my glider time to reduce the bill.
     The airmanship will probably come easily, concentrate on the things
we glider pilots don't get to do--ATC,radio work, get your instructor to
take you into complicated airspace etc. I think you get the idea.
Good luck, and let us know which you like better, power or glider.
I am still an inveterate glider pilot.

Howard Petri 
Pegasus N599JH
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: awtron@strawber.princeton.edu (Andrew Tron)
Subject: Re: Clearing customs
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 13:48:50 GMT

>In article <1992Aug12.212103.22697@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu> ron@turing.toronto.edu (Ron Wessels) writes:
>>In article <ty4mgdq@quantum.on.ca> aboyd@quantum.on.ca (Andrew Boyd) writes:
>>>Worse, you're not supposed to leave the a/c (even to pee) until the 
>>>US customs guy has said it's OK to.  I wonder if he made it to oshkosh?
>>
>>True.  Although I'm not sure about staying in the aircraft, according
>

One time when I was returning from a trip to Canada, I decided to clear
customs in Watertown, NY.  I phoned the Customs post and after they got
my particulars they told me that if a customs inspector was not present
when I landed, I should phone a certain number.  After I arrived at the
airport, I saw no customs inspector.  Since I didn't have my portable
cellular telephone with me ;-) I exited the airplane and phoned customs
at the Thousand Island crossing.  They processed me over the phone.  It
certainly was the easiest time I had clearing customs.

I've been informed that clearing customs over the phone is quite common
with boat traffic in the area.  The idea is that while many times you
will be cleared over the phone, there is a chance that an inspector will
come to your vehicle personally.

So far I've had five dealings with US customs in which the agents were 
either neutral or friendly -- and one where the agent was obviously
trying to stay current in the Hermann Goering Fan Club.

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Never trust a pilot with clean hands.| Andrew Tron at Princeton University
No flight plan has ever survived     | awtron@strawber.princeton.edu (Internet)
contact with air traffic control.    | uunet!phoenix!strawber!awtron (UUCP)