From: cescript@mtu.edu (Charles Scripter)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns,soc.culture.french
Subject: Re: Guns, and the necessity to trust our governement.
Keywords: guns and fascism
Date: 29 Aug 92 22:53:54 GMT
Article-I.D.: mtu.1992Aug29.225354.22204
Organization: Michigan Technological University

In article <1992Aug29.061315.1128@rhrk.uni-kl.de>, andrick@rhrk.uni-kl.de
(Ulf Andrick) writes:

> In article <1992Aug26.230720.11182@mtu.edu>, cescript@mtu.edu (Charles
> Scripter) writes:
> > In article <1992Aug23.010331.15464@microsoft.com>, marcmil@microsoft.com
> > (Marc Milanini) writes:
> > 
> > > Whereas in the USA, you can buy M16s by reading ads in the newspapers.
> > > We agree that European countries have less criminality than the USA.
> > > As a matter of fact, thay also have harscher control on guns...
> > 
> > Ok, let's have a look (I'll only select a few, to save space):
> > 
> >                  H O M I C I D E
> >                                   PER         ABSOLUTE
> > RANK  COUNTRY                     100,000     NUMBERS
> > ====  ==========================  =======     ========

[...]

> > Unfortunately, I don't have stats for assaults, and other violent crimes.
> > It does look like Europe has a problem with rape.
> 
> These numbers are regrettable, especially for Germany. But I don't see
> how rape is related to the subject of this thread, which is 

The statistics for rape were important because this response was to
Marc Milanini, who claimed "We agree that European countries have
less criminality than the USA."  I guess we really don't agree.
It would be nice to include all violent crimes, for a good comparison.

> guns. (Guns are rarely used in rapes, at least in Germany.)
         ^^^^
That depends on whether you're in the Army... ;-)  (*never* call
your weapon "your gun", when dealing with Army folks... ;-)

> People in a state with restrictive arms control laws are not necessarily
> less criminal than others,

Correct.

> but the number of people killed is probably
> lower when there are less firearms about. 

That depends.  If someone is trying to kill you with a knife,
then you can expect their cuts will be to vital areas.  If they
try to "cut you", you can expect cuts to relatively non-vital areas.
("cut you" is slang I've heard a few times; The attacker cuts his
opponent with the intent of inflicting pain, not death...).  It's
probably less likely that someone will intentionally shoot you, with
the intent of wounding you.

> > Curiously, Switzerland was not even on the scale... (not in the top 60).
> > It must be their well known lack of firearms is responsible...  ;-)
> 
> That Switzerland does not appear at all is rather strange. Such an extreme
> difference to all of its neighbours seems a little incredible.

Perhaps it's culture, or perhaps it's Darwinism (dead criminals don't
come back to steal, rape, or murder again...).  Differences in culture
is a variable that is hard to quantify.

-- 
Charles Scripter   *   cescript@phy.mtu.edu
Dept of Physics, Michigan Technological University, Houghton, MI 49931
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