From: bhv@areaplg2.corp.mot.com (Bronis Vidugiris)
Subject: Re: violence
Organization: Motorola, CCR&D, CORP, Schaumburg, IL
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 10:16:11 GMT
Followup-To: alt.feminism

Muffy Barkocy writes:


> No, the issue is that every time someone talks about the violence that
> is practiced against women, some people here start shouting about the
> violence that happens to men.  Not only do they not seem to want us to
> work on the problem *we* are concerned about, but they further want us
> to work on *their* problems.  No one has *denied* that men have
> problems, those are simply not necessarily the problems that many
> feminists are concerned about.  It is apparently more interesting to
> advocates for men to attack anyone working on women's problems than to
> *do* anything about the problems they are supposedly so concerned about.
> 
> Muffy

Heaven forfend that we should ask *you* to work on a problem that's not
yours. Reciprocity demands, though, that if you don't work on our problems,
we shouldn't work on yours - it's not in our best interests, for one thing.
Besides, you wouldn't want to ask US to work on YOUR problem - would you?
[No one is actually and literally directly asking in so many words, but
that's almost besides the point.  I do think the question of is it 'US' and
'THEM' or is it 'US' - i.e.  are we all in the same boat together or not - 
as being a valid issue, though.]

So, the question remains - is violence a 'men's problem' and a 'women's
problem', or is it everyone's problem?

I have some preference for it being everyone's problem, myself.  Politics
has been moving away from that direction - unfortunately, IMO.

BTW - if you do happen to come up with a solution (I hear a lot of *talk*
about solutions, but no actual solutions) please let us know.  If it's a
reasonably and non-discriminatory solution, I might even be for it.  If
it's sexism and gender discrimination in the guise of a solution (like, for
example, the Biden bill - mostly sexism, very little solution) I for one will
probably not be interested.

To do something unprecedented in this thread, I will actually start actually 
talking about a real 'solution', though I see it as impracatical.

Even a cursory study of the statistics of violence quickly shows up an
interesting an obvious anamoly - Japan.  In spite of a very high population
density (which is a definite risk factor for violence), it has a very low
violence rate (for homicides and many other forms of violence).

The question comes up - why is Japan different?  Especially, how is it
different from the US, which has a very high rate of violence?

Naturally, the answers to this question are many and varied, and largely
subjective.  The following are some of my own thoughts - and, as I am not
really as familiar with Japan as I would like, I may be missing the boat :-(.

I see a very tight, rigid, and *unwritten* social code as being one component
of the 'Japaneese' system.  People are so busy trying to figure out what the
rules are that they have less time and inclination for violence.  The custom
that people don't actually say what they mean directly, but 'drop hints',
contributes to this atmosphere.  People intrigue heavily, but rather than get
into loud arguments and stab each other with actual knives, they use the time
honored methods of politics, inuendo, and intrigue to stabe each other with
verbal knives.  Of course, the high suicide rate shows that sometimes the
verbal knives can be just as telling as the physical ones, but such is life.

Another, slightly less morbid, aspect of the Japennese society that may
contribute to lower violence is better education.  I think some of this
comes from social attitudes - being well educated is more of a social
advantage in Japan (IMO) - in the US, managment is the 'fast track' to
success, education is not emphasised nearly as much (IMO).

BTW - I'm not sure I'd really like living in a society like Japan
(esp. the intrigue ridden one of my imagination) better than the US
personally  - but it would be arguably safer if the US were more of a mirror
image of Japan culturally.  I wouldn't mind the emphasis on education,
though.

Using the Japaneese model, 'women's lib' is not really an important factor
for low violence - Japan is not especially noted for non-sexist gender
roles - quite the opposite is my impression - but continues to have low rates
of violence - for everyone, not just 'men' or 'women'.

Newsgroups: alt.feminism