HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: labson@borneo.corp.sgi.com (Joel Labson)
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
Subject: Re: Charter for r.m.compose?
Date: 30 Dec 92 18:50:11 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.

I agree with Garry, Please clean this newsgroup...Is there a moderator
to this group?? maybe he can help re-routing Postings that does not
belong here...

At least you make two people happy & satisfied...THANKS


-- 
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
From: fields@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Matthew Fields)
Subject: Re: Hey!  Cool it.
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 19:28:25 GMT

> our culture and how it has been warped by the
> university system.

How about our culture and how it has been warped by commercialism?
The greats we look back at thrived under less economically-democratic
systems, under special deals with the rich, etc.  Charles Ives did
like me and had another career (insurance salesman in his case,
computer programmer in mine).  But the difference in popularity of,
say, a Top-40 hit composer among all the thousands of really superb
talents working in that style, and someone working in their own
reinterpretation of a classical style---is, I claim, not so heavily
determined by style or the nature of the music (else one style would
prevail, and a garage band in that style would have more albums out
than the NY Phil---or something)...  People are complicated, and when
you get a lot of them together at once, you get a sort of herd
behaviour that can shift one way or another chaotically on account of
zillions of factors.

The composers of Bartok's generation, if my messy recall is up and
running, had the ironic fate of criticizing the academy, then abruptly
becoming it.
From: maverick@cork.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Vance Maverick)
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
Subject: Re: // 5ths & 8ves
Date: 22 Dec 1992 19:32:27 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: cork.cs.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Dec22.140454.16744@zip.eecs.umich.edu>, fields@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Matthew Fields) writes:
|> In article <1992Dec19.130505.12073@cucs5.cs.cuhk.hk> bmtong@cs.cuhk.hk (Tong Bo-Ming) writes:
|> > [how to avoid nasty parallels between Alberti and melodic voices?]
|> 
|> Many solutions.

Actually, in the style I think he had in mind,
the parallels were not always considered a flaw.
Mozart commits them all over the place.  Examples
abound in the piano sonatas; in the symphonies,
I can think of at least the clarinet duet from the
trio of the minuet in the Eb symphony (#39).
So I don't think he needs to worry greatly.

	Vance
Xref: sparky rec.music.compose:572 rec.music.makers:11608
From: ajross@husc10.harvard.edu (Andrew Ross)
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose,rec.music.makers
Subject: Re: Problem with Finale (PC) and Deskjet ! Help !
Date: 25 Dec 92 00:11:34 GMT

downs@helios.nevada.edu (Lamont Downs) writes:

>>I recently bought the music notation program Finale for Windows. 
>>But i have some printing problems: if I print in the normal way
>>(i.e. ms-windows prints the file) the solution is *really* very bad.
>>(I've a deskjet 500 but this isn't 300dpi which I receive, perhaps
>>150dpi!!)
>>I've also tried to compile a Postscript listing and then to print
>>it by Ghostscript, but sometimes I receive some errors of which I think
>>that they're caused by Ghostscript.
>>
>>Does anyone out there has the combination of Finale(PC) and HP Deskjet
>>running ? Do you have anyhints to get a better printing qualitiy
>>(either by windows or Ghostscript) ??

>I'm not using the DJ (using a Canon BJ-330 instead) but it sounds like what 
>I used to get before I installed Adobe Type Manager. If you're not using ATM 
>or PostScript, Finale uses a bitmapped font which is not very high 
>resolution for printing and looks terrible. With ATM installed, Windows 
>uses the Adobe Type 1 information to create characters scaled to the actual 
>resolution your printer is capable of. The difference in appearance with & 
>without ATM (which costs about $50 or so) is breathtaking. Unfortunately, 
>the current version of Finale does not work with Win 3.1's TrueType, though 
>_supposedly_ a version 3.0 to be released someday will.

>If you're already using ATM, just ignore this...

>Lamont Downs
>downs@helios.nevada.edu

>PS: With ATM installed, _any_ Type 1 fonts you install become available to 
>_all_ your Windows applications, not just Finale (for example, WordPerfect 
>for Windows).

I'll second this recomendation.  I have Finale 2.0 running with a DJ500
and have had no problems.  I'm using Win 3.1 with ATM 2.0.  Definitely
consider getting ATM--it's more than worth the cost.

As to the next version of Finale, Coda has been pretty tight-lipped about
it.  The last I talked to them (about 2 mo. ago) they wouldn't even give
me an idea of a release date, and wouldn't say if the Win 3.1 multimedia
specs would be supported for the MIDI stuff (please, oh please...)

Hope this helps,
Andy Ross
ajross@husc.harvard.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
From: fields@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Matthew Fields)
Subject: Re: notational issue - timing
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 18:17:32 GMT

In article <1992Dec30.175739.12837@m5.harvard.edu> borden@m5.hravard.edu writes:
>Might anyone be able to offer me some advice on a notational issue?  I'm
>writing out one of my piano pieces, a piece which has a lot of subtle
>timing in it, like short accelerations, decelerations, rushing a little bit
>here, delaying a little bit there, etc.  I'm really not sure how this sort
>of thing is notated.  Any suggestions of what to do or where to look would
>be appreciated.  Thanks.
>
>  - Dave Borden
>    borden@m5.harvard.edu

Look at the score of "Vox Balaenae" by George Crumb.  That should give
you a pretty good idea of one easy way to use feathered beams for your
purpose.

Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
From: fields@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Matthew Fields)
Subject: Re: How does one compose?
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 21:01:02 GMT

In article <85767@ut-emx.uucp> james@astro.as.utexas.edu (James McCartney) writes:
>I would say they are a compositional geek. The Schoenberg 12-tone system
>was useful as a hammer. It did open new territory. But I think that once
>the wall is broken, the hammer should be thrown away.

Uh, if there's one thing Schoenberg did NOT really do with the 12-tone
system, that's open new territory.  The territory was opened by Berlioz's
generation, and Schoenberg pulled himself both-legs into it back around 1908
or so, i.e. 13 years and 16 opus numbers before he started working in 12-tone
serialism.  He and his two prominent students worked out on a piece by piece
basis a variety of serialisms that were useful for the particular pieces
in which they were applied, until around 1923 when he got going on the suite
op.25, and realized he had a handle on an idea he could treat more abstractly
and exploit for a number of other compositions.

Recently I heard a strictly serial composition by Donald Martino, called---
again, my memory is flakey on this--- White Isle.  Absolutely delicious,
though rhythmically very simple.  I'd love to get my hands on a recording.

Lessee, when Rameau figured out the idea of the fundamental bass as an
organizing principle in music, that was a hammer that opened whole new
horizons of harmony.  With those horizons open, natch we should have abandoned
tonality then and there as having served out its useful life...
but I just happen to sometimes like tonality.  So send in the thought police
to ticket me every time I use one of these outmoded tools.



Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
From: fields@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Matthew Fields)
Subject: Re: academia, power, priveledge...
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 17:35:21 GMT

In article <1992Dec25.190909.25191@zip.eecs.umich.edu> I write:
>In article <gXecwB1w165w@dorsai.com> idealord@dorsai.com (Jeff Harrington) writes:
>>  Bach and Mozart wrote music which was judged by 
>>intelligent, cultured music lovers.  I'm sorry, this ain't the case no 
>>more.  
>
>Intelligent, cultured music lovers don't grow on trees! Hence modern
>academia.

But I've oversimplified and failed to explain why I love to teach
composition.  This cuts right to the heart of the joy of teaching.
You hand out seeds of ideas that you don't even have to make up
because your own teachers handed them to you, and each student finds a
niche for that seed in her or his own fertile mind---and week in, week
out, you get to see instantiations of ideas blossoming back at you in
ways you couldn't ever have imagined.  This is fun.

But nobody should be teaching composition who doesn't complete at least
one new symphony or 3 new sonatas and quartets or one scene of an opera
fully orchestrated per year, consistently, imho.

Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
From: idealord@dorsai.com (Jeff Harrington)
Subject: Re: Carping and Per Diem
Organization: The Dorsai Embassy, New York's Computer Consulate. +1.718.729.5018
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 14:25:12 GMT

fullerto@tortoise.cis.ohio-state.edu (timothy dwight fullerton) writes:

> In article <2csJwB3w165w@dorsai.com> idealord@dorsai.com (Jeff Harrington) wr
> 
> >
> >I find this a bit naive.  Pop musicians are interested in becoming 
> >"popular" and in making "money."
> 
> 
> 	Well, I would argue that it is prejudiced to assume that all pop 
> musicians are in it for the money. Certainly SOME are; Madonna freely 
> admits it and writes little or none of her own material. Others have 
> little or no realistic expectation of it even paying for itself, but 
> write and play because they love it and feel the need to express what 
> they have to offer -- for example, myself.
 
Ah, yes, the joys of the sentiments.  Remember, though, that pop music is 
by definition meant to be "popular."  As such it usually employs 
methodologies which can be understood by the multitudes.  Not by 
definition a problem, but in actuality, because the masses have little or 
no capacity for exploration - (blame it on the education system!) pop 
music is usually constructed to be immediately understood as a statement 
designed to provoke quick sentiment.  
 
Take a song by Metallica - take the notes and the rhythms - play it on a 
piano - what do you have? - You're basic Scottish/Irish folk song with 
rhythms of African derivation.  Do the composers know that they are 
employing these devices?  Of course not, they just know it sounds good to 
their ears and that their fans will enjoy it.  This is a self-imposed 
limitation which is fundamentally market-based.  Do you know why you like 
pop music?  Why you still feel addicted to its sentiments?  Hey, 
practically every generation since the WWII generation is addicted to 
rock music and I do mean - "addicted."  
 
I write this from a recovering addict's p.o.v.  ;-)  (I hesitate as I 
type that living in Brooklyn - I still feel drawn to the massive beats of 
the new hard core rap records you hear in the street).  I believe that 
the generations which have grown up under rock music's influence are 
going to have a profound impact on contemporary music - but - only if we 
question our attraction to its formulae.  I find real African music (not 
the so-called pop derivatives - "World Beat" or whatever) can satisfy my 
cravings for electric syncopation without the sentiments of modal pop 
harmonies.  
 
Of course, I say, whatever turns you on -> but it's always good to know 
the location of your switches ;-).




Jeff Harrington      
IdEAL ORDER               
idealord@dorsai.com
From: mangoe@cs.umd.edu (Charley Wingate)
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
Subject: Carping and Per Diem
Date: 22 Dec 92 03:36:52 GMT

Jeff Harrington writes:

>So live.  CARPE F**KIN' DEUM!  I can't f**kin' believe someone who calls 
>himself an artist is worried about the rent.  

Ever heard the Schickele "Bach Portrait"?........

I'm not all that impressed with the Suffering theory of art.  Maybe I'll
settle for a Yearning theory instead.
-- 
C. Wingate        + "The peace of God, it is no peace,
                  +    but strife closed in the sod.
mangoe@cs.umd.edu +  Yet, brothers, pray for but one thing:
tove!mangoe       +    the marv'lous peace of God."
From: maverick@cork.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Vance Maverick)
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
Subject: Recent Inspirations?
Date: 31 Dec 1992 18:09:24 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: cork.cs.berkeley.edu

To start the new year in a spirit less contentious than much of the
posting on rec.music.compose (my own not excluded):

What music which you've heard recently has struck you as good and
relevant to your own music-making?  Rather than a long list of pieces,
I'd be more interested in seeing a single piece, together with a
discussion of why it's relevant to you.  Ideally, this would be
recorded, so your fellows could go out and follow the recommendation.

My own contribution: Toru Takemitsu, _Water-Ways_ (1977) for clarinet,
violin, cello, piano, two harps and two vibraphones.  Recorded on the
Virgin Classics Takemitsu disc (VC 7 91180-2), by the London
Sinfonietta under Oliver Knussen -- beautifully played.

A few weeks ago, I heard a piece at the UCB undergaduate composers'
concert which piqued my curiosity -- an interesting start, in the
sense of instrumentation and apparent goal, but a mess as a piece.
Then I happened on _Water-Ways_, which in terms of my listening,
sounded like "the right way" to approach these ideas.  It is an
interesting way to handle some qualities with which I've been more or
less concerned over the past year:

space and quiet: there is a looseness of connection, a feeling that
one note, or a pause, might be enough, together with plenty of ideas
for the eight very miscellaneous instruments.

prettiness: Takemitsu is pretty to a fault, by my ears, on the other
pieces on this album, especially the "orchestral" ones -- he just
can't resist the neo-Debussyan sonorities which apparently come so
easy to him.  This piece, though, mingles prettinesses very
convincingly with other elements: bare, like the open fifth which
begins the piece or the single clarinet tone which recurs, or crunchy,
like many of the chords for piano and vibes.

idiom: T. mingles patently triadic material with pitch-class-rich
texture, and equal-tempered instruments with otherwise-tuned harps,
without apparent effort or the effect of juxtaposition or quotation.
His handling of the widely spaced triad toward the end is beautiful --
he takes just what he wants from its association with "resolution",
using it to end the piece on something rather more complex.

freedom: This happens not to be one of my present concerns, but it's
come up on the group in recent months.  The notation for the piece
allows the conductor and the players considerable latitude.  People
concerned with this should listen and check out the score -- it's
carefully done.

This is long enough already.  Let's hear other people's inspirations!

	Vance
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
From: williams@quads.yosemite.eid.anl.gov 
Subject: Re: // 5ths & 8ves
Reply-To: nbw1@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 07:04:47 GMT

In article <1h7qgbINNt2f@agate.berkeley.edu> maverick@cork.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Vance Maverick) writes:
>In article <1992Dec22.140454.16744@zip.eecs.umich.edu>, fields@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Matthew Fields) writes:
>|> In article <1992Dec19.130505.12073@cucs5.cs.cuhk.hk> bmtong@cs.cuhk.hk (Tong Bo-Ming) writes:
>|> > [how to avoid nasty parallels between Alberti and melodic voices?]
>|> 
>|> Many solutions.
>
>Actually, in the style I think he had in mind,
>the parallels were not always considered a flaw.
>Mozart commits them all over the place.  Examples
>abound in the piano sonatas; in the symphonies,
>I can think of at least the clarinet duet from the
>trio of the minuet in the Eb symphony (#39).
>So I don't think he needs to worry greatly.
>
>	Vance

Still, it sounds a little strange to have all of these wonderful chords
being played, and all the sudden, several incomplete chords, especially
when the melody, the arpeggio, and the bass leave out the 3rd.  I think
that the matter should be thought out, as someone just said, note by note
with the two voices on top of each other..(linear composers are good for this)

Benjamin I. Williams
williams@yosemite.eid.anl.gov


Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
From: bmtong@cs.cuhk.hk (Tong Bo-Ming)
Subject: Re: // 5ths & 8ves
Organization: Faculty of Engineering, The Chinese U. of Hong Kong
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 02:11:54 GMT

idealord@dorsai.com (Jeff Harrington) writes:

>Wait a minute, you're talking orchestration, whether by the use of 
>octaves in the piano or in the orchestra.  That's a totally different 
>thing from voice leading.  
> 
>Matt's got some good points.  Ultimately, anyone who thinks an Alberti 
>bass never bends with the melody doesn't know the literature :-).  
> 

>Jeff Harrington      
>IdEAL ORDER               
>idealord@dorsai.com

How do we distinguish between doubling and orchestration ?

My usual practice is this: if I have more than 4 parts, I allow myself
to have some octaves (and sometimes fifths as well).  However, for n
parts I only allow n-4 parallel octaves.  (What do you think about this
?)  It is clear that the piece in my original posting does not obey this
rule, and my ear tells me that it is not too pleasing to hear.  I
would seek some 'justification' from you.

Once I read the score of a piano piece by Schumann.  There are only two
parts, but still consecutive octaves.

							Tong Bo-Ming
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
From: idealord@dorsai.com (Jeff Harrington)
Subject: Generalizing About Life, Music, Advancement, Quality
Organization: The Dorsai Embassy, New York's Computer Consulate. +1.718.729.5018
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 21:11:50 GMT

A few quick generalizations I was trying to make about how to write good 
music.  
 
1.  Get a life.  Experience things outside of the practice room or the 
university cafeteria.  No one is going to care about your music if you 
have nothing to say.  Get mad about something you care about.  Go to a 
demonstration.  Get arrested.  Fall in love.  Just get out of that 
practice room!  
 
2.  Listen to all types of music.  Good music.  Bad music.  Critique your 
friends taste in music.
 
3.  Write what you want, when you want.  Don't write the music you feel 
you ought to or have to.  If you want to write a symphony in the style of 
Bruckner, do it!  You'll only learn from the experience.  There's no 
better way to learn how to write good music than to write intentionally 
in different styles.  Who cares what the prigs in academia will think 
about your attempt at Ockeghem... 
 
4.  Learn to improvise.  Sit down with your instrument today and just 
play.  Who cares what it sounds like.  Sing!  Learn to play jazz, the 
quintessential American music.  Jam with others.  Do free-form 
improvisations ala Stockhausen.  Make music with something besides your 
head!  
 
5.  Take lessons from people outside your school.  If you know there's 
a "wierd" composer in your area who everybody thinks is a crackpot give 
her a call!  Show her your music.  I did this with someone when I was at 
LSU in Baton Rouge.  It turned out to be the best teacher I ever had.  
Inspired, you bet, drinking problem, yeah, so what...
 
Sorry to have to go and write another one of those "inspirational" 
diatribes, but my generation (I'm 37) has probably written more 
uninspired, dull, lifeless music than probably any other in history.  
Maybe this will help the next one...
 
Whatever...
 

Jeff Harrington      
IdEAL ORDER               
idealord@dorsai.com
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
From: fields@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Matthew Fields)
Subject: seen on a fortune cookie server somewhere
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor, MI
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 18:07:47 GMT


In the Top 40, half the songs are secret messages to the teen world to
drop out, turn on, and groove with the chemicals and light shows at
discotheques.
                -- Art Linkletter
From: maverick@cork.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Vance Maverick)
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
Subject: Re: academia, power, priveledge...
Date: 24 Dec 1992 00:33:47 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: cork.cs.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Dec23.202529.29725@zip.eecs.umich.edu> fields@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Matthew Fields) writes:
>
>The most priveledged living "classical" composer I can think of is Colin
>Nancarrow (of the many player pianos), who, if rusty, unreliable memory
>serves correctly, won a great big prize that supports him and his art FOR
>LIFE outside of academia, and who retired to Mexico City to pursue whatever
>kind of automated ear-tickling monkeyshines he wants, with neither academic
>affiliation nor commercial concerns  (Of course, I've probably botched this
>one, so will somebody please fill us in on the correct details).

His name is "Conlon" Nancarrow.  He moved to Mexico long before gaining
any recognition -- the US government hassled him on political grounds.
All the awards etc. date from since his rediscovery in the 70's, thanks
to Charles Amirkhanian and 1750 Arch Records.  Privilege?  Belated
recognition.

Scanning the Wergo booklet, I can't figure out how he supported himself
between 1940 and 1980 -- not that it matters.  The award you're remembering
is probably the MacArthur, which he held 1982-1987.

By the way, his music is great.  Check out Study #41a.

	Vance