From: casey@stars.gsfc.nasa.gov (Sean Casey GSFC (301)286-4558)
Newsgroups: alt.romance
Subject: Re: Attention Advice Givers (ie HELP)
Date: 11 Nov 92 03:49:00 GMT
Organization: NASA/GSFC-Laboratory for Astronomy and Solar Physics
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1

In article <1992Nov11.125118.1@emu.insted.unimelb.edu.au>, s206001@emu.insted.unimelb.edu.au writes...
>In article <7NOV199217534560@stars.gsfc.nasa.gov>, casey@stars.gsfc.nasa.gov (Sean Casey GSFC (301)286-4558) writes:
>> In article <0096340D.A302FE60@Msu.oscs.montana.edu>, oopcv@Msu.oscs.montana.edu writes...
>>>In article <1992Nov4.230117.27270@jetsun.weitek.COM>, weaver@jetsun.weitek.COM (Michael Gordon Weaver) writes:
>>>>In article <Bx6F6q.n4J@news.cso.uiuc.edu> jlamb@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Jeffrey Richard Lamb) writes:
>Jeffrey:"Situation : Ok I met this girl over the net.The point : What I need 
>help with is this. 1) Do I try to "push" the relationship?" 
> 
>Weaver answers:"A relationship is not a car. You don't steer it, you lead it. 
>You should have an idea of which direction you want the relationship to go so 
>that you can gently nudge it that way."
> 
>Cheryl replies:"I love all these verbs;  relationships are not to be "pushed,"
>"steering,""floating," "leading," and "nudging."  Just what are we trying to 
>accomplish?  Whatever happened to letting Nature take its course?"
> 
>And the man of the moment, Sean (get his other foot and shove it in his mouth
>writes): 
>> Isn't this the difference between men and women. Men are entrusted with 
>> the responsibility of taking charge in a relationship. In particular,
>> it's men that always (ah, mostly) make the first move. Women, on the other
>> hand, assume a passive role and take or refuse offers as they come.
>> I don't think nature has a course in regard to relationships. It's
>> only from the female perspective that "pushing" and "nudging" seem
>> un-unatural. 
> 
>Okay so I'm a new comer to this but I couldn't let this go by without my $0.02.
>Jeffrey don't push I agree that you should try to steer toward your objective
>and if it happens it will in time patience is its own reward they say..
>Yes nature is meant to do this and it does but nature is the attraction and the
>actions to respond are your own.
>Now I don't agree with Sean at all that nature is letting men take all the
>initiative or rather that they have to take charge.  A relationship in the
>making is not necessarily a military campaign, sure it requires careful
>planning and strategy and perhaps a little encouragement but from BOTH parties
>concerned.  Isn't that the whole gist of a relationship?!!  If a relationship
>in your eyes is one sided then there isn't much of one to my way of thinking. 
>This female does not see 'pushing' and 'nudging' as unnatural but rather as
>tactless, I tend to prefer subtlety as opposed to being railroaded...
>Appreciation and romance have that subtlety and gain cooperation in achieving a
>successful relationship.  None of this "lie back and be passive"!!! ;)
> 
>I have no .sig yet but I like some I've seen.  My apologies in advance for any
>misunderstandings if they arise.
>Irene.

"Our finest hour" - thank you, but what's this foot in the mouth business? X(
(only kidding - ;)). My points were two fold a) relationships are strategy
(they require action) b) female are not likely to have this view point since 
they don't do their fair share of asking. (See alt.personals.nice - it's full
of guys wining about 'how come I always have to do the asking', etc. or
'why don't women ask me out'. Case in point...I had been trying to work
my charm on some 'lovely' gal who (as I later found out) had no problem
finding dates. That is, she had no problem because guys were always asking
HER out! After I realized this relationship  wasn't going anywhere (i.e. 
she dumped me - get those violins outa here), I just bagged it. After that 
we were just friends. Anyway, work started piling up, and I ended up spending 
most of the summer in lab working (in part because I didn't feel like dealing
with this romance thing). I was working every day of the week for long hours.
During the summer we talked, I told how busy I was, she told me how
she was doing (I didn't really want to know). At the end of the summer, we 
had dinner. It was my birthday. Anyway, in the car on the way back she asked me
if I was dating! My first response was, 'Is she crazy, when the hell am I
going to have time to find gal to date', then I thought, 'hmmm...maybe
she means something else'. I said 'no, but why?' (hoping for some
encouragement). To which we replied something like, 'oh, just asking'.
I couldn't believe it! Give me a break!

It was then that I can up with this theory that women don't have a clue what
it takes to find a date! Not a clue. And, after reading some of the advice
I've seen on the net, it serves only to reinforce my convictions. Sure it take
'two to tango', but someone (mostly the men) has to do the asking. And even
then it takes 'careful planning and strategy' to keep them going. Anyone who
think it's not a big game to find a SO is sadly mistaken.

Your views to the contrary are more that welcome.

SC
Newsgroups: alt.romance