From: verbit@brauer.harvard.edu (Mikhail S. Verbitsky)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: A new abortion law in Poland (from Clarinews)
Date: 26 Jul 92 16:09:38 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Math, Harvard Univ.

In article <1992Jul26.125652.23026@enea.se> sommar@enea.se (Erland Sommarskog) writes:
>Mikhail S. Verbitsky (verbit@birkhoff.harvard.edu) writes:
>>What should I add? Religion, being relatively harmless in West
>>behaves very ugly in ex-communist countries. I think this is
>>because most people there cannot tell religion from totalitarian
>>ideology which they worshipped most of their lifes. Now they
>>just worship different symbols, but the power these symbols
>>represent is the same - the power of total control and omnipresent
>>marasm.

>Off target. Religion is more important in some countries in
>other. The correlation is rather Catholic on the one hand
>and Protestant on the other (I can't tell where the Orthodox
>come in), than communistic or not. Poland is strongly Catholic,
>and the church would have had heavy influence without communists.
>Ireland also have very severe abortion laws. In the united Germany,
>heavy oppostion of the liberal abortion in the former DDR came from
>the west, not the east. And witness how televangelists, "Moral
>Majority" is a signficant source of opinion in the US.

>Also, I find it completely unfounded to blame the people in Poland,
>when the news article clearly indicated that the people disagrees
>with its parliament.

You are completely right, of course Poles are not such idiots
as their parliament. I am judging by the Russian Power That Be
and therefore could be wrong, but in Russia people who now
have the power are the same people who worshipped Communistic
ideology all the time before perestroyka. They are now ardent
Commie-bashers (check the late ridiculous trial on CPSU),
and Orthodoxes, but in fact they are no better - they are
the same people as old Commies, regardless of their anticommunism
and Orthodoxy. They just changed plus for minus, and instead
of calling 2+2=-179 they claiming 2+2=179. Actually, their
179 is strikingly similar to their old -179.`

I believe that women should be able to chose individually
between abortion and pregnancy, but I have nothing against
orthodox Jews and Catholics who believe otherwise. If
Polish parliament want to restrict abortion, fine:
they can pursue their moral principles. The awful
thing is that this measure in contemporary Poland
will have terrible consequences. Ex-Communistic countries
(except one or two) relied on abortion instead of
contraceptives. I knew a beautiful girl, capable student,
who had already 5-7 abortions being 22 years old. Average
woman's amount of abortions in old Russia was 5-10.
My friend, medic, met a woman 35 years old who have had
21 (!!!) abortion. Most women I know who are >40 years old
who have not at least 1 abortion. The same situation
take place in Poland, as from the article I reposted
was obvious. This is due to the practical unavailability
of most of contraceptives. The only thing which is readily
available in Russia is "matochnoe kol'tso" - "the womb's ring"
size of 1.5 average fists (!!!). Nobody will use
this thing, except professionals, and even they will 
not (they could manage to get a better gadget).
All usable woman's contraceptives were imported and
they have costed (in old time) 300 rubles - the
double month income. Condoms were of bad quality
and almost no available except in capitals.
    I have read that in Poland the situation 
was even worse.

Another reason for abortions was that in xCommunist
countries women always worked and had little privacy
(lived in dormitories etc.) Kindergartens were available
only for families with protection from their plant
or powerful friends, about half of population totally.
Very often women physically could not bring up the kids they 
really wanted, even if they were married. 

Well, these jerks in Polish parliament don't plan
to produce more contraceptives. They just want to outlaw
*all* abortions, even medically justificated. They
will get frankly 2/3 of present amount of abortions,
but the 2/3 of 600 000 annual rate will be performed
indoors and in terrible conditions. The same thing
happened in Russia in 30ies when Stalin outlawed
abortions. The rate did not change much, only the 
methods (and there are researchers who prove it).

Poland now is in terrible economically situation
(a way better than in Russia, but still lot
worse than in Italy and Ireland and Germany).
There are things which sound reasonably in 
Western countries, but are madness to perform
is contemporary Poland. Anyway, Poles want
to restrict abortions much more strictly
than in any European country. I believe
that this is madness and only cruelly moronic
xCommunists could perform it.

Misha.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet