HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: STella@thelema.uucp (STella)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Don't Tell 'Em, SHOW 'Em was being out...
Date: 17 Nov 92 01:32:36 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Idiosyncratic Anarchic Order

In article <83732@ut-emx.uucp> adkisson@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Rob Adkisson) writes:
>It's really frustrating to be closeted, but it takes so much work to be the
>token bi.  I just don't have the energy to be constantly explaining to
>these people with binary conceptions of sexuality, what being bi means.
>I feel guilty though, that if I don't do something to raise the issues,
>I'm only hurting myself in the long run....

Hey, dunno if this'll work for you, but when I don't have the
emotional energy to explain myself, I generally resolve the issue by
doing what I want to be doing, and letting those who don't have the
clue do the work of figuring out what to call a dyke who fucks men.
(If the confused can read, there is a clue on my denim jacket, a brass
pin that says "BYKE".)

But you seem to feel responsible for educating those others, and I
don't see that we are.  When I have time and heart, I'll try to do
just that.  But life is what happens while you're doing other stuff,
and sometimes I just gotta say "figger it out yerself, you're not that
dumb!"

Here lately, I had a bad time, fell out of my tree, expected to wake
up in Poseys without a safeword, but didn't have time to go crazy
'cause my life was falling apart around me almost as fast as my head
was falling apart inside.  And loving friends stood by me, but kept
their hands, in important ways, off.  No-one but me could chew hir way
through the ideas and assumptions that were making me miserable, and
all a friend could do was say "you must decide", and "you must
choose", and "you must ask for what you want to get it", until I could
collect my head, and return to deciding/choosing.

Just as I, and no one else, was responsible for finding/fixing my
head, so the folks at your school with binary conceptions of
sexuality, and not YOU, are responsible for coming to understand.

Be the person you are, and let them sort it out, or not, as they
choose.  If you have a clue to offer, groovy, but it's not your job --
being Rob Adkisson is your job.  As being STella is mine....

STella@xanadu.com	1016 E. El Camino Real, #302, Sunnyvale, CA 94087
aka stella@glg.ucs.dec.com -- ping there if you can't find thelema
Don't blame me, I voted Libertarian!
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: jcarroll@chopin.udel.edu (Royal J Carroll)
Subject: Re: Gender-specific needs
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 18:22:31 GMT

In article <1e065fINN4l4@agate.berkeley.edu> rsr@soda.berkeley.edu (Roy S. Rapoport) writes:
>
>All things considered, though, I'd rather be in pennsylvania ...
>
Which is not too far from Delaware! :-) <wink> <flirt> 
(Depending upon where you are in PA.)

>-roy
>-- 
>Roy S. Rapoport          rsr@soda.berkeley.edu             rsr@ocf.berkeley.edu
>"Letters from you make me feel good."  -Laura Creighton
>"Why do you guys all have to have penises?" -anon
>DISCLAIMER:  "I meant every word of it, but I doubt anyone else did."

-James

-- 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
But if some one really cared/well they'd take the time to spare
A moment to try and understand/another one's despair
-Axl Rose, "Breakdown"-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=jcarroll@brahms.udel.edu-
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: gtoal@ibmpcug.co.uk (Graham Toal)
Subject: Re: I am not a white male. (was: PC)
Organization: The IBM PC User Group, UK.
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 07:10:49 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.233755.24220@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> sconley@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Icky White Male) writes:
>So, with respect to all that, fuck you, I don't care what you think.

Well said that man!

G
--
From: adkisson@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Rob Adkisson)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: being out...
Date: 16 Nov 92 07:13:02 GMT
Reply-To: adkisson@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Rob Adkisson)
Distribution: na
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX
Originator: adkisson@mickey.cc.utexas.edu

I'm looking for some net wisdom here...

I'm sort of in a dilemma here...  I just started grad school in the fall, and
had a major change of environment from my undergraduate experience.  At my
undergrad. college, I was out to pretty much everyone who cared to know, and
to plenty who didn't want to.  I was going to wait and test the waters here
to see how accepting the people were.  Well, they seem to be ok, but I've
lost my nerve now...I don't know what happened...I'm not trying to be 
closeted, I talk frankly about my opinions when motss relationships come up
in conversation.  But, I keep my sexual remarks about men to myself.  

It's really frustrating to be closeted, but it takes so much work to be the
token bi.  I just don't have the energy to be constantly explaining to
these people with binary conceptions of sexuality, what being bi means.
I feel guilty though, that if I don't do something to raise the issues,
I'm only hurting myself in the long run....

Anybody out there have similar experiences?  Comments...  

This is like coming out for the first time all over again! ARGH!!!!

*HUGS* to all

-rob 
-- 
____________________________________________________________
rob adkisson         ____   A young flirt of Ceylon
                     \bi/   Who led the boys on, 
                      \/    Playing 'Follow the Leda'!
U. of Texas, Austin         Succumbed to a swan -- Ogden Nash  
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: daz@mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU (Darren Primm)
Subject: Re: coming out to my parents
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 03:36:25 GMT

s882916@otto (Vikki POLLARD) writes:


>Being married is a very easy way to hide. All my friends know that I'm bi.

A very easy way to hide from what?

Daz.

--
  Darren (Dazza) Primm, Dept EE Eng, Melb Uni, Parkville, 3052, Australia
 "There's no point in being grown up if you can't be childish, sometimes."
   Internet: daz@mullian.ee.mu.oz.au  [dazza@ecr.mu.oz.au]  IRC: Family

Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: gtoal@ibmpcug.co.uk (Graham Toal)
Subject: Re: coming out to my parents
Organization: The IBM PC User Group, UK.
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 01:24:33 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.153149.23717@ctp.com> sthor@ctp.com (Sarah Thornburg) writes:
>Comments???

Me too.

G
-- 
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: mlloyd@westmark.Stanford.EDU (Mike Lloyd)
Subject: Re: I am not a white male. (was: PC)
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 03:44:29 GMT

winsor@geek.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (js) writes:
: In article <1992Nov16.233755.24220@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, sconley@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Icky White Male) writes:
: |> 
: |> So, with respect to all that, fuck you, I don't care what you think.
:
: Well said, IMO, and a good "period" to this anoying thread!

Does that mean that you don't want this stuff discussed?  Anyone is at
liberty to say so, but it's worth being clear.

: Am I white, too, people?!

Well, if you're asking for my (Bayesian prior) estimate of the chances,
I'd quote something like 90%, given the makeup of the net (on which I
have no hard data - hence the subjectivitiy of the estimate).  Modify
that by what you've said (which affects your audience's estimate of you
with each syllable you use, in an infinity of ways), and I might revise
slightly to about 95% for my estimate.  Do I care?  Not really.  Not
unless you want to claim, in a discussion in which racial status has an
interaction, that your racial type has no bearing on what you say.

Note 1) it, your racial type, should have no bearing on the truth.  It
will, however, have bearing on how your opinions are viewed by any but
the most credulous audiences.
Note 2) please be advised that the above is not an attack on you in any
way, shape or form.  Please read it again if you think it is.  None of
the statements are comments on you as a person, apart from the attempt
to answer your question.

: Guess so.... since I agree with sconely.

Agreeing with sconley does not make you white per se; indeed, the
converse is clearly false, since I am white and I disagree with him on
at least the point which led to this discussion.  (Yes, I'm assuming for
this that he is, in fact, white - I have no proof of that, but I suspect
he might have denied it by now were it incorrect).

Agreeing with sconley also does not make you unwelcome - even slightly.
It doesn't even make you unusual; I don't think I disagree with him over
very much outside this discussion, and that is probably true of many
here.  I don't think this need be a rancorous argument; if you feel the
need to join in, please do.  If you prefer to junk the thread, that's
fine.  Still, for what it's worth, I lost your demuffining in a recent
accident, so I'll offer hugs to you in welcome.  Acceptance is, of
course, at your discretion.  Hugs from me may well be conditional on
your coherence and lack of obnoxiousness, but they are most certainly
not conditional on your race.

Mike
-- 
Mike Lloyd, B0/1 h- f- t w- g+ k+ s m- e? |    "Bloody nose and burning eyes
      Retro-hippy, music nut, bi and      |  Raised in laughter to the skies"
          backrubber of devotion          |                 - Bruce Cockburn
               --The end of confusion is the beginning of death--
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: carl@sscl.uwo.ca (Carl Kaufmann)
Subject: Re: Really blatant flirtation               
Organization: Soc.Sci.Comp.Lab., U.West.Ont.
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 17:09:08 GMT

In article <1992Nov10.202905.16713@Princeton.EDU>, datepper@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Aaron Tepper) writes:
> A 45% purity score? 53%? Feh! I spit on you all! I currently stand at
> 96% (but would love any chance to lower that).

Jeesh.  I thought that I was hopeless at 86%.
Then again, if I did everything that I want to I'd have 31%. :-)

Many furry hugs to all ...

^ ^
CatGuy-----
||  ||
*****************************************************************************
* See how the heart reaches *  Carl Kaufmann   * No one has to do anything, *
* out instinctively, for no * Soc.Sci.Comp.Lab * except bear consequences.  *
* reason but to touch.      *    U.West.Ont    *                            *
*       -Kate Bush          * carl@sscl.uwo.ca *       -Me                  *
*****************************************************************************
From: winsor@geek.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (js)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Gender-specific needs
Date: 21 Nov 1992 00:19:11 GMT
Organization: Texas Instruments Incorporated, Austin
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: geek.teng.ppd.ti.com


|> 	Anyway, let me know how things work out--I'm a teeny bit jealous
|> you found her before I did! Oh, and, <raises hand timidly> how do you
|> about letting a motss know you're attracted to him or her? I really have
|> no clue (but Elf can confirm my cluelessness, I think (-;)

<also timidly raises hand>
I've been outta circulation for more than a while, and don't think I ever
knew (in the first place) how to hint to a motss.  Is it different with
men versus women?

*huggles*
js
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: cliveg@cix.compulink.co.uk (Clive Grace)
Subject: Re: No subject
Reply-To: cliveg@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 02:55:00 +0000


> I have an account (crjones@nyx.cs.du.edu), but I only use it to read alt.lycra,
> which only just seems to be getting through here in Cambridge.

Quick! Jump him! He's got access to alt.lycra!
--
+-------------------------------------------+--------------------------+
| When I grow up, I want to give up being   |cliveg@cix.compulink.co.uk|
| a Journalist and learn how to write...    |cliveg@cix.compulink.uucp |
+-------------------------------------------+--------------------------+
|       Bisexual knitter of quality and distinction since 1992.        |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: sa121@cl.cam.ac.uk (S. Arrowsmith)
Subject: Re: Yet another thing that I wrote...
Reply-To: SA121@phx.cam.ac.uk (S. Arrowsmith)
Organization: Glad to be Sad
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 17:04:25 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.182959.29244@ultb.isc.rit.edu> kdc5072@ultb.rit.edu () writes:
>*hugs* to all...."Let It Snow, Let it snow, let it snow..."
>
>                                   MASKS
>
> [ ... good stuff deleted to save bandwidth ... ]
>
>	So my question is this:
>
>		Are you wearing a mask that someone wants you to wear?  
>
Yes.

Curiously enough, this is something I've been going over a lot in
counselling recently.  It's all very well to recognise that it is
a mask you present to the world -- but after all the years showing
nothing else, can you really be sure that there's anything left
inside?  That there is a real you -- something more than the masks
presented for the benefit of others?  Would you dare to try and 
remove the masks if you believed/knew this to be the case (I can't)?

--
\S
SA121@phx.cam.ac.uk   | There's nowt |"And in this moment, I need to be needed
sarrowsm@nyx.cs.du.edu| so queer as  |"When my self-esteem is sinking,
                      | folk....     |"I like to be liked" -- Peter Gabriel
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: gtoal@ibmpcug.co.uk (Graham Toal)
Subject: Re: My inner man
Organization: The IBM PC User Group, UK.
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 13:06:41 GMT

In article <By0A50.8Gn@news.udel.edu> seamus@ravel.udel.edu (James G Dilmore) writes:
>I thought that it came from Fornication Under the Crown of the King(FUCK!)
ARGH!!!!!  *See* what we meant????

G
--
From: mjb@doc.ic.ac.uk (Matthew J Brown)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: coming out to my parents
Date: 18 Nov 92 21:20:09
Organization: Department Of Computing, Imperial College, London.
	<1992Nov18.130202.3134@infodev.cam.ac.uk>
NNTP-Posting-Host: oak50.doc.ic.ac.uk
In-reply-to: crj10@phx.cam.ac.uk's message of Wed, 18 Nov 1992 13:02:02 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.130202.3134@infodev.cam.ac.uk> crj10@phx.cam.ac.uk (Clive Jones) writes:
>In article <Bxuvst.GBo@dcs.ed.ac.uk>, pdc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Paul Crowley) writes:
>> In article <s882916.721962102@otto> s882916@otto (Vikki POLLARD) writes:
>> [...]

>> By the way, the e-mail address in your header is *still* hug-proof. 
>> Mail your sysadmins.

>Well, let's see...

>| From: s882916@otto (Vikki POLLARD)
>| NNTP-Posting-Host: otto.bf.rmit.oz.au

>I think that gives the game away pretty comprehensively! Try:
>s882916@otto.bf.rmit.oz.au

Even so, the 'From:' line should give a mailable address, for
auto-replying to work. What newsreader are you using, Vikki? Some (eg.
GNUS, the GNU Emacs newsreader, allow the user to fix this
him/herself.

-Morven/Matt
--
| Matthew J. Brown  | Dept. of Computing | If God intended for us to go to   |
| mjb@doc.ic.ac.uk  | Imperial College,  | lectures He wouldn't have created |
| mjb02@cc.ic.ac.uk | 180 Queen's Gate   | double-sided photocopiers.        |
| Morven on Lambda  | LONDON SW7 2AZ     |          -IC RagMag 1991/92       |
From: cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Ciaran McHale)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Feeling out of place
Date: 17 Nov 92 12:29:40 GMT
Organization: DSG, Dept. of Computer Science, Trinity College Dublin

In <1992Nov17.031218.10818@rat.csc.calpoly.edu>
pclary@mushroom.csc.calpoly.edu (Ellen Clary) writes:
>rsr@soda.berkeley.edu (Roy S. Rapoport) wrote...
>>Of course, I do live where I live ...
>
>Yes Roy you live in Berkeley, where it is gauche to notice anything. :-)
>There is a guy who walks around naked in Berkeley and no one openly
>pays any attention.  

Well somebody did because I read a short article about him in a local
newspaper. Seemingly, he was called to a disiplinary meeting with some
power-that-be in the college. He turned up nude and the power-that-be
refused to see him. The article said that he was suspended from college.


Ciaran.
-- 
---- Ciaran McHale (cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie)
\bi/ Department of Computer Science, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland.
 \/  Telephone: +353-1-7021539 FAX: +353-1-6772204
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: mlloyd@westmark.Stanford.EDU (Mike Lloyd)
Subject: Re: FAQ?
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 18:05:49 GMT

litterst@pecan.cns.udel.edu (Nat'l Mediocre Soc.) writes:
: Okay, since I just got onto this group after reading over Zoe's shoulder
: I do have a few questions...

You called this (elsewhere) a "sneaky" demuffining?  We hadya spotted a
mile of, sonny!

: 	Is there a Frequently Asked Questions list?
: 	Can I get it?

No, and hence no, but I think you knew that by now ..

: 	If there isn't can someone tell me what a muffin is?

Again, I'm sure you know by now.  Still, I thought I might point out
that it's clear what sort of muffin you are:
: From: litterst@pecan.cns.udel.edu
                 ^^^^^
Mmmmm!  Deelish!

Hugs, and welcome aboard
Mike
-- 
Mike Lloyd, B0/1 h- f- t w- g+ k+ s m- e? |    "Bloody nose and burning eyes
      Retro-hippy, music nut, bi and      |  Raised in laughter to the skies"
          backrubber of devotion          |                 - Bruce Cockburn
               --The end of confusion is the beginning of death--
From: vashti@concave.cs.wits.ac.za (Vashti Galpin)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: rubbing things (was Re: two men)
Date: 17 Nov 92 06:08:53 GMT
Article-I.D.: concave.vashti.721980533
Organization: The Department of Indecision

In <1992Nov13.192419.4895@infodev.cam.ac.uk> crj10@phx.cam.ac.uk (Clive Jones) writes:
>Sorry for the slight flippancy above, but it really doesn't seem to work. Do
>you have to be in a special position first? (We were sitting at a computer.)

Well, I tried it out the other night in front of a computer and I still have
lots of hair. (But I'm trying to decide whether to cut it all off - it's
about waist length and it makes me look about sixteen. I think that I want it
really short (and all these posts about short hair are convincing me more),
but I know I'll miss it.  Perhaps I can have a hairpiece made, but that
sounds really gross.) 
                                                                ____ 
                                                                \bi/ 
Vashti, the undecided                                            \/
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: crj10@phx.cam.ac.uk (Clive Jones)
Subject: Re: Yet another thing that I wrote...
Telephone-Messages: +44 223 33 4900
Address: Christ's College, Cambridge CB2 3BU, ENGLAND.
Organization: 6am Digital Playground
X-Furry-Character: Gerald_Duck
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 18:07:02 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.170425.19899@infodev.cam.ac.uk>, sa121@cl.cam.ac.uk (S. Arrowsmith) writes:
> Curiously enough, this is something I've been going over a lot in
> counselling recently.  It's all very well to recognise that it is
> a mask you present to the world -- but after all the years showing
> nothing else, can you really be sure that there's anything left
> inside?  That there is a real you -- something more than the masks
> presented for the benefit of others?  Would you dare to try and 
> remove the masks if you believed/knew this to be the case (I can't)?

Hmm. Time was, when I would worry about things like this. This was mainly
when I was back in school, and there were so many groups of people I had to
behave in so many different ways around. It used to worry me rather that I
couldn't see for certain what my natural character was.

Then I came to University. It took time (about three years, plus a few
cock-ups) to sort things out, but I seem to have minoritised several parts
of my personality (not least the one that made me be meek and mild and
(semi-)obedient as far as my parents were concerned (-8) and a few others
have come to the fore. Plus I met a few people who talked to me about Zen
philosophy - I assumed they were slightly mad and have since ignored them
and that helped a lot. (-8

Basically, my experience is that this *can* come together of its own accord
if you relax a bit and see what happens. Just find the mask that makes you
happiest and wear it - it's probably your real personality, trying to get
out.

Or am I talking rubbish here?,

--Clive.
From: ahb0@aber.ac.uk (Anna He Baik)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: .sig
Date: 15 Nov 92 21:07:43 GMT
Organization: University of Wales, Aberystwyth

>What was that I heard? Nah... Must have been the wind...
>There it goes again... Was that "Muffin" I heard?...
>Hmm...
>*STALK*
>
>...
>
>*POUNCE*
>*HUG*
>
>There, have one back 8-)
>
>Mike.
>--
>____________________________________________________________________________
>\  /  / Michael Williams                     Part II Computer Science Tripos
>|\/|\/\ MJW19@phx.cam.ac.uk                          University of Cambridge
>|  |(__)Cymdeithas Genedlaethol Traddodiad Troi Teigrod Mwythus Ben I Waered
wibble! wow 2 ppl reply ter me & i get all shy....:)
where did the idea for the sig come from, btw...(seeing as that inspired me
to post in the 1st place...) ^^^ the tigers bit, that is...
swsus mawr wleb & hugs to u too! :)
yon
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: dsuchy19@calvin.edu (Dawn Suchy)
Subject: Re: demuffining at last....
Organization: Calvin College
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 16:31:47 GMT

In article <nsn.721954167@munagin> nsn@mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU (Nick Nicholas) 
writes: (quoting Zoe a bit here too....)
>
>>(although others are always appreciated; being an English
>>major I am little more than functionally literate where computers are
>>concerned.) 
>
>Yo Dawn! Yeah, you! Unix wiz! Get on over here :)

	That was bi UNIX hacker top, I think, thank you very much!

	Even though I'm really an Interdisciplinary Major in 	
	English, Communications, and Art now..... and taking
	CS classes just for the....*stimulation*.... *giggle*
>
>Back on the scene
>Like a sex machine *uh*

	This I gotta' see.... *giggle*
>
>Is that a muffin in your pocket or... dang! ANOTHER octopus! :)

	Or would it be a *boomerang?!*.... <wink wink> to JOE!!!!
>
>That's the kind of failure I like :) though I can assure you all, this
>woman can do the verbiage spiel well! Just ask her Shakespeare prof!

	I *told* you... *never* use the S word!!!  Although things
	are looking up now that I've changed my major.... a bit
	drastic of a step to avoid taking Shakespeare again, but....

>
> %%%   %%%   %%%   %%%   %%%   %%%   %%%   %%%   %%%   %%%   %%%   %%%   %%%
>non me tenent vincula, non me tenet clavis, % (nsn@munagin.ee.mu.oz.au)
>quero michi similes et adjungor pravis.     % Nick Nicholas, striver, EE&CS,
>      --- Archipoeta, _Confessio_.          % Univ. of Melbourne, Australia

	Obligatory Translation Request.... 

------------------------------------------------  
|          d a w n  e l i z a b e t h          |                  
|           dsuchy19@ursa.calvin.edu           |
------------------------------------------------

-- 
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: jcarroll@chopin.udel.edu (Royal J Carroll)
Subject: Re: bisexual opinion by my friend
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 17:52:05 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.235053.4055@wvnvms.wvnet.edu> un032230@wvnvms.wvnet.edu writes:
>In article <BxKFx4.9Ip@news.udel.edu>, jcarroll@bach.udel.edu (Royal J Carroll) writes:
>> Well, that certainly doesn't do much to improve the image of West
>> Virginians!
>> 
>> (To those outside of the U.S., WVians are stereotyped to be stupid hicks
>> that inbreed.  "West Virginia: one big happy family.")
>> 
>> -James 
>> -- 
>
>PLease allow me to attempt to make up for my fellow statesman.  *I* happen
>to be very much into the idea that West Virginian's are a friendly bunch.
>*hug*
>
>See?
>
*HUG*

Right back at you.

(I knew those myths were wrong!  :-)  Actually, I've met some very
friendly WVians at the Strawberry festival.  Quite a friendly town.)

-James



-- 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
But if some one really cared/well they'd take the time to spare
A moment to try and understand/another one's despair
-Axl Rose, "Breakdown"-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=jcarroll@brahms.udel.edu-
Newsgroups: soc.bi