From: eager@eagercon.com (Michael J. Eager)
Subject: Re: T: To All MENSA Members...
Reply-To: eager@eagercon.com
Organization: Eager Consulting
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 20:33:42 GMT

In article 3203@ncsu.edu, sat@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott Andrew Tai) writes:
>
>     I have felt for some time that MENSA members can be roughly
>categorized into one of two groups.  Group A consists of those people
>whose lives are centered around a test score, and joined for the ego
>stroking they believe an elite organization can give them. Group B
>are those people who joined for more nobler reasons as stated in the
>MENSA charter.  The responses I've received were consistent with this
>grouping.  The telling point separating the groups is not whether they
>agreed with me or not; it's the approach they took when confronted with
>an idea challenging and possibly disturbing.

It seems that there are two groups of people: those who divide people
into two group, and those who do not.

I don't see that I fit in either of your groups and most Mensa members
I am aquainted with don't either (although I'm sure that you would force
them in one or the other).  

The Group A folks are the silent members.  You most likely will not 
find them at a Mensa event or contributing to this newsgroup.  As you 
mention, they are satisfied with having qualified and that is sufficient.

The Group B folks have mis-read or mis-understood the Mensa charter.  It 
explicitly states that Mensa has no stated objectives or positions, other
than being an organization for intelligent folks.  

The group which you ignore is the majority of Mensa members.  These are
folks who enjoy the other members and enjoy participating in the various
activities which the members organize.  Most of these folks seem interested
in intellectually challenging or interesting activities, or ones which are
best described as "fun".  

>Group A people always say it must be due to sour grapes, then when you
>point out that you qualify, they then claim MENSA is really nothing
>more than a social club.  

If Mensa is more than a social club, as it's charter describes, what,
pray tell, is it.  (I note that since I describe it as a social club,
you will certainly place me in your denegrated Group A.  Then you can
attribute all of your supposed characteristics of this group to me,
whether you find any evidence or not.  There is a logical falacy here.)


>This last claim of joining for social reasons
>has always sounded hollow.  First, any area large enough for a MENSA
>chapter will also have any number of other clubs, and any interest
>club on an intellectual subject will be overloaded with intelligent
>people.  Second, unless one is a gross underachiever, anyone bright
>enough to qualify for MENSA will be surrounded by intelligent people
>at college or at work. Group A people join for ego reasons and bring
>nothing to the organization.

Well, the Sierra club (of which I'm a member) is very interested in 
hiking and the like.  But not terribly responsive to discussions
about nanotechnology.  The Bay Area Contra Dance group is very interested
in contra dances, not much on current events.  The ACM group is very
interested in computers, but not in other topics. The local sex group is
very interested in positions and potions, not much in communication.

There are other groups with an intellectual subject (such as the computer
or sex groups), but I have only found Mensa to have a broad variety
of people with diverse interest and experience.

Yes, I am surrounded by bright people at work.  We talk, on occasion. 
Some are friends.  But this is work, not social.  There is a strong
social aspect to work, but the activity is different from friends 
sitting around a table talking about whatever may come up.  

When I was at university, I was surrounded by bright people who talked
about a wide range of topics.  I probably would not have been interested
in Mensa at that time.  I can understand that you might not understand
this, since you are at a university, but the world outside the campus
is not as you would have it be.

It is always easier to demand that the world or Mensa be as you imagine
it should be.  It is harder to look at what is real and then work with
that.

>     Can this happen?  Don't know.  Can Group A people grow and become
>Group B people?  If not, does Group A outnumber Group B?  Will Group A 
>resist dropping the 2% rule?   The net reaches every branch of MENSA, 
>so this is a call for someone in every branch to start discussing 
>repeal.  I hope it can be done.

And what do you propose for membership criteria?  And other than your
obvious value judgement of Group B over Group A (meanwhile ignoring
most current members), what is the benefit of changing the existing
criteria?

Something which you are probably not aware of is that there is a Mensa
culture (all groups have a culture; Mensa is not unique in this respect).
There are variations in culture from local group to local group.  Not 
every bright person finds that the culture is interesting or compatible.
A number of people join each year and do not renew.  This is true not
only with Mensa but all organizations.  Some people move from one area
where the culture was dull to a more interesting place and suddenly 
get very involved with the group.  

None of this has anything to do with your supposed groups.  

P.S. This is the first posting from you which I have read which seemed
to invite any reasonable response.  Congratulations.

---
Michael J. Eager		Michael.Eager@eagercon.com
Eager Consulting		(415) 325-8077 
1960 Park Boulevard, Palo Alto, CA 94306-1141

Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa