HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: alt.activism
Subject: Re: Ohio Ethnic Intimidation Law
From: demon@desire.wright.edu (Stupendous Man)
Date: 15 Sep 92 13:50:51 EST
Organization: Demonic Possesions, Inc.

In article <146uqB1w165w@bluemoon.rn.com>, monstman@bluemoon.rn.com (Kevin A. Keefe) writes:
> Ethnic Intimidation Law
> Post: 22881 of 22882
> orson@bluemoon.rn.com (Craig Smith) Thu, 03 Sep 92 21:06:24 EDT writes:
>>
>>Okay, but then the question comes down to, "what is the intent of
>>a cross burner?" To intimidate, yes? Are their laws against
>>intimidation? Yes, there are. Existing laws will suffice.
>>
>  
> Hey Craig - I thought your speciality was computers - now you are a
> legal expert as well???
>  
> What are these laws against imtimidation you speak of?

	Assualt, stalking laws, trespass, obscene phone calls, etc.

> The current laws in Ohio most definately DO NOT punish ethinic
> imtimidation, thus citizens ask for a tougher law. What's your
> problem with that?

	Nor should they punish *ethnic* anything.  They do, however, punish
intimidation.  When was the last time extortion was legal here? :)

> I'm not sure why the Supreme Court of Ohio struck down the current
> Ethnic Intimidation Law. I hope the legislature will try again to
> enact a law that the court can find agreement with.

	It struck it down because it was a law against what people were
supposedly *thinking*.  Thought crimes should be scary to everyone.

> I personally know of african-american citizens in Middletown Ohio
> who caught some local KKK burning a cross on their lawn. They
> videotaped this racist outrage on a camcorder.

	So had ample evidence of trespass and vandalism.

> Next day at the county prosecutor offices they were told the only
> law the perpetrators could be charged with was a violation of
> the State EPA laws against open burning without a permit.
> Is this what you consider adequate protection, sir? 

	Obviously the country prosecutor needs to bone up on vandalism and
trespass laws.

>>It seems extremely odd to me that those who write and support these
>>"hate crime" laws are the same people who say that you cannot 
>>legislate morality.  Is not racism a moral question?
>>
>>Double standard, is it not?
>>
> Not at all a double standard. Racism IS a moral question - but that
> is not why it is a legal question.

	It's a legal issue because the government wants that power.

Brett                                                      
_______________________________________________________________________________
Proconsul Computer Consulting                                        CHA-CHING!
Better, Cheaper, Faster					       (Pick any two :)
Disclaimer:								   NOT!
From: rogerl@Ingres.COM (Roger Leuthner)
Newsgroups: alt.activism
Subject: Re: disparity between rich and poor widening
Date: 10 Sep 92 23:35:48 GMT
Reply-To: rogerl@Ingres.COM (Roger Leuthner)
Followup-To: alt.activism.d
Organization: Ask Computer Systems Inc., Ingres Division, Alameda CA 94501

In article <1992Sep11.221037.5539@anomaly.sbs.risc.net> kd1hz@anomaly.sbs.risc.net (Michael P. Deignan) writes:
>rogerl@Ingres.COM (Roger Leuthner) writes:
>
>>1959, groups earning 31 billion
>
>>	top 4%: 2.1 million individuals and families
>>	bottom 35%: 18.3 million individuals and families 
>
>>1989, groups earning 452 billion
>
>>	top 4%: 3.8 million individuals and families
>>	bottom 51%: 49.2 million individuals and families
>         ^^^^^^^^^
>Overall, pretty meaningless statistics. Top 4% of what in 1959? Bottom
>35% of what? Define "individuals and families".
>
>I notice you didn't use "bottom 35%". What's the matter? Statistics
>didn't support your political agenda?
>
>--  Michael P. Deignan                      / Sex is hereditary. If your 

I'll waste my time on you and explain it further.  If you require more
explanation than what follows, I suggest grade school.

It took 51% of the wage earning units* to earn an amount equivalent to
that earned by the highest paid 4% (also wage earning units, which is why
the distinction is irrelevant) in 1989, while in 1959 it took 35% to earn
an amount equivalent to the highest paid 4%.
The percentage of highest paid units is being held constant (4%), with
the dollar amounts being allowed to vary (with the number of units needed
to earn an amount equivalent to the 4%).

In case numbers bother you, in 1989 it took a larger percentage of the
population to make an amount of money equal to the amount of money made by
the highest earning few (notice the subject line) than it did in 1959.

sheesh

*a unit is either an individual or a family headed by a single wage earning
individual.
From: drm@esl.com (Don McGregor )
Newsgroups: alt.activism
Subject: Guzman captured
Date: 13 Sep 92 18:44:51 GMT
Reply-To: drm@esl.com
Followup-To: alt.activism.d


Abimael Guzman, founder and leader of Peru's Shining Path movement, was  
reported captured by Peruvian police saturday.   

Attempting to try him in Peru should be interesting, given the  
difficulties of maintaining order in a state under martial law and under  
guerilla attack.  I wonder if they'll extradite him to the US for trial on  
drug smuggling charges.  Probably not, given US-Peru relations.

--
Don McGregor
drm@esl.com 
Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.individualism,alt.pagan
From: pciszek@nyx.cs.du.edu (Paul Ciszek)
Subject: Re: Who's "free-er"? Intrnat'l response wanted!
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 92 07:02:52 GMT

>I see no excuse for giving points for things on paper, if they don't
>get translated into effect in people's lives.  Many people in this
>department come from China, or indonesian villages miles from the
>closest phone.  You should talk to these people after their first
>visit to a big american inner city.  Paper tolerance, and paper
>rights don't count for squat.

I said that I am looking for *both* theory *and* practice.  My concern is
that even if a nation currently does not censor speech or writing, it may
do so at any time if there is no restriction on power of the government.
Or, put another way, if the bill of rights or something like it is not
upheld as an idea, any adherence to these principles in practice is accidental.

--
Paul Ciszek, pciszek@nyx.cs.du.edu | No nation was ever drunk when wine was
                                   | cheap.   -- Thomas Jefferson
From: dean@vexcel.com (Dean Alaska)
Newsgroups: alt.activism.d
Subject: Re: The Crimes of Nicaragua (V)
Date: 14 Sep 92 17:10:13 GMT
Organization: VEXCEL Corporation, Boulder, CO

In article <1992Sep14.150905.4837@iti.org> aws@iti.org (Allen W. Sherzer) writes:
>
>When you intend to set up a dictatorship you got to have guns.

The Sandinista's also gave guns to peasants to guard their farms.  Not
something the Salvadoran government did.
>
>   Allen
>
>-- 
>+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
>| Allen W. Sherzer | "If they can put a man on the Moon, why can't they     |
>|  aws@iti.org     |  put a man on the Moon?"                               |
>+----------------------222 DAYS TO FIRST FLIGHT OF DCX----------------------+


-- 

		dingo in boulder	(dean@vexcel.com)
Newsgroups: alt.activism.d
From: sgparker@eos.ncsu.edu (SCOTT GRAHAM PARKERSON)
Subject: Tom and Jerry? (was Snapple "Anti-Choice?")
Originator: sgparker@c00392-346dan.eos.ncsu.edu
Keywords: flubbydubbysnertwerts
Reply-To: sgparker@eos.ncsu.edu (SCOTT GRAHAM PARKERSON)
Organization: Definately NOT Kansas (NCSU, Raleigh, NC, USA)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 19:12:08 GMT



} Remember boycott Tom and Jerry ice cream.

Ekscuze me, but why should _I_ boycott Tom and Jerry ice cream (or are you
talking about BEN and Jerry's ice cream--I've never heard of T&J's)?  What the 
hell did the product do that was so bad that _I_ should boycott?  Please
explain.  That's all I ask for.



-- 
   _/\_   sgparker@eos.ncsu.edu
  /|  |\  Scott Graham Parkerson
  \|  |/  Sophomore, Computer Science
   -\/-   North Carolina State University 
  
"...it's just as permanent as painting in the Iron Age."
                                        -Shriekback, "Fish Below the Ice"

Newsgroups: alt.activism.d,alt.rush-limbaugh,talk.abortion
From: jahn@guinness.Idbsu.EDU (Greg Jahn)
Subject: Re: "Snapple" Anti-Choice?
Reply-To: jahn@guinness.idbsu.edu
Organization: BSU - Data Center
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 15:03:19 GMT

In article <1992Sep15.134140.9520@mtu.edu>, mtjachim@mtu.edu 
(Mr. M. T. Jachimstal) writes:
|>jrs@netcom.com (John Switzer) writes:
|>>In article <JYM.92Sep15001340@remarque.berkeley.edu>
|>jym@mica.berkeley.edu (Jym Dyer) writes:
|>>>=o= I heard that "Snapple" brand drinks -- the favorite of
|>>>everyone's favorite idiot radio show host -- donates part of
|>>>their profits to anti-choice groups.  Can anyone confirm or
|>>>deny this rumor?
|>>
|>>Anti-choice? Ah, you mean pro-life. I hope the rumor is true. If so,
|>|>>I'll start buying more of it.
|>>-- 
|>>John Switzer               | 50 years from now, nobody will
|>>                           | remember Candice Bergen or Murphy
|>>74076.1250@Compuserve.com  | Brown, but every school kid will
|>>jrs@netcom.com             | be taught about President Quayle.
|>
|>So if pro-life=anti-choice then pro-choice must mean anti-life, eh?
|>
|>Sounds good to me. Time to go out and buy a few cases of Snapple.
|>
|>Matthew

Hey, I think it's great both you GUYS will never have an abortion,
I probably will not either, now, let everyone else, particularly
the women that will actually have to confront the situation, come
to their own conclusions.

--
Greg Jahn, Boise State Univ.|"In this selfish age, public-spirited
/ jahn@guinness.idbsu.edu / | acts were left to the individual, and
/ dosjahn@idbsu.bitnet    / | what could the individual do on his
/ (208)385-3891.thephone  / | own?"        - Adolfo Bioy Casares
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 15:15:12 EDT
From: <WCW103@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.activism.d
Subject: Austin, TX M D A protest

      In reference to the previous article criticizing protests, calling
the demonstrators "ingrates" I believe I have something to add.  I spent
the summer living in london, where I was studying theatre.  As I left the
theatre one afternoon I saw a large group of demonstrators across from a
TV station.  They have a similar fundraising effort in England, "Telethon" I
believe it is called.  The protesters were a striking notion to me, and made
me stop and think about the role of the beneficiaries of these telethons.
The protesters, most of them in wheelchairs, held signs proclaiming "Jobs not
Charity" and general sentiment that an overhaul of societal attitude is needed.
Did we ever stop to think that hand-outs and wheelchairs are not the answer?
I do not deny their financial support of families trying to cope with MD, but
isn't it possible that the notion of "Jerry's kids" does more harm than good?
It perpetuates our stereotype of the physically challenged as helpless,
pitiable, different.  In England the anti-telethon protest was very large and
very well supported.  I think they had a lot to say.  I was glad to hear of
the protests in this country, and of significant political figures speaking out
and would like to hear more.  Isn't it time we stopped listening to Jerry
telling us what these "kids" need and listened to them?

Newsgroups: alt.activism.d
From: orwell@reg.triumf.ca (BALDEN, RON)
Subject: Re: Usual Libels against Chomsky
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: TRIUMF: Tri-University Meson Facility
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 03:37:00 GMT


jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy)
>As for Stone taking KGB money, we have Kalugin's story that he
>personally gave the money to a prominent American journalist, and
>another KGB veteran confirming in Moscow that it was Stone.

John, John, John.  Kalugin flatly denies that it was Stone,
So how can someone else "confirm" Kalugin's story when
they contradict him?  I thought logic was your speciality.

[For newcomers:
See the August 3/10 (1992) issue of "The Nation",
"Izzy an Agent?", by D.D. Guttenplan.]

Ron Balden

Newsgroups: alt.activism.d
From: gdsimpso@unix.amherst.edu (GILBERTO DANIEL SIMPSON)
Subject: Latino E-Mailing List
Organization: Amherst College
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 05:35:27 GMT

 
        Hola Folks,
 
        Me llamo Gilberto y soy el co-chair de La Causa, el grupo Latino de
Amherst College. I am writing to tell people about a computer mailing list
which was started last semester to try to foster communication between Latino
students (as well as other interested people) across the country. The list has
been relatively successful and has over a hundred subscribers around the world.
        People have used it to share information about social/academic events
held on college campuses, scholarship and research opportunities for Latino/
Hispanic students, and current events connected to Latinos, both in the United 
States and in Latin America.
        The intended focus is on issues of concern to Latino students, but
anyone's input or participation is welcome. The membership is diverse and 
includes people of many different nationalities and occupations. Several members
have connections with other Latino organizations and computer networks and so
this list can give its membership access to a wide range of quick, reliable
information.
        If the list continues to grow, it has the potential to create a large
network of students accross the country and facilitate the progress of la raza.
Its strenth depends on an increasing membership who can take advantage of the
possibilities of electronic communication.  
 
        If you are interested in becoming a subscriber to this e-mailing list,
or if you have comments for thelist administrator,  all you have to do is send
a note to the following address:
 
        LATINO-L-REQUEST@AMHERST.EDU 
and say that you want to join.
 
        While you are subscribed, if you want to send a message to the entire 
membership of the list (like a piece of interesting news, a question you might 
have, an announcement that might benefit Latino students etc.) then write to:
 
        LATINO-L@AMHERST.EDU
 
        In case you are not interested, please forward this file to someone who
you think might want to participate; in that way, you can at least help the list
grow and develop.
 
Hasta Pronto
        -Gilberto       

Newsgroups: alt.activism.d
From: dean@vexcel.com (Dean Alaska)
Newsgroups: alt.activism.d
Subject: Re: The Crimes of Nicaragua (V)
Date: 15 Sep 92 14:41:48 GMT
Organization: VEXCEL Corporation, Boulder, CO

In article <1992Sep14.220013.905@iti.org> aws@iti.org (Allen W. Sherzer) writes:
>In article <1992Sep14.171013.20634@vexcel.com> dean@vexcel.com (Dean Alaska) writes:
>
>>>When you intend to set up a dictatorship you got to have guns.
>
>>The Sandinista's also gave guns to peasants to guard their farms.  Not
>>something the Salvadoran government did.
>
>It is also something the government of South Viet nam did. Does this
>change your mind about that government?

How do you know what "my mind" is about the South Vietnamese government?
I don't believe I have posted recently on the subject.
>
>   Allen
>-- 
>+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
>| Allen W. Sherzer | "If they can put a man on the Moon, why can't they     |
>|  aws@iti.org     |  put a man on the Moon?"                               |
>+----------------------222 DAYS TO FIRST FLIGHT OF DCX----------------------+

-- 

		dingo in boulder	(dean@vexcel.com)
Newsgroups: alt.activism.d
From: jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy)
Subject: media bias
Reply-To: jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
Date: 5 Sep 92 12:41:14

Last night I saw a movie called "Mistresses".  It's a semi-comedy
about a director, a producer and a writer who want to make an old
movie script of the director's about an artist who commits suicide to
protest "selling out".  The producer finds three potential backers,
all people of no "integrity", each of whom is motivated by the desire
to get his young mistress into the movie.  Roles for them have to be
created, and the story has to be changed to make it more up beat.  The
three sell out, modifying the movie to suit the desires of the backers
and their girl friends, but the deal collapses in amusing squabbling
in the end.  I forget exactly how.

Anyway, in the middle of the movie, there is a thirty second
diatribe about the U.S. role in Vietnam.  Doubtless, various people
concerned with the movie, (e.g. the writer, the director and the
producer) satisfied their leftist consciences by putting it in.
Vietnam has absolutely no connection with the story.

$25 to someone who has not seen the movie for the best hypothesis as
to what the diatribe was and how it was made to fit in.  It requires
no more knowledge of the story than I have given to come up with the
actual way it was done.
--
John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305
*
He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.

Newsgroups: alt.activism.d
From: jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy)
Subject: Re: media bias
Reply-To: jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
Date: 5 Sep 92 13:50:05

James Brock suggested a scene in which a Vietnamese woman is raped or a
showing of old newsreels.  That would be far too much of an intrusion
on the story.

Let me add the following hint and impose it as a requirement for the
prize.  The scene fragment can be fitted into almost any movie of
contemporary life.  It would normally require no additional actors and
no additional scene.  The take could have been written in advance by
some "Hollywood Committee for Peace and Justice" and offered to any
director or writer who wanted to do his bit for "peace".

I'll offer another $25 for an anti-nuclear power scene fragment
meeting the same requirement.  In this case, I don't haven't seen
any such thing or have one in mind, but I'm sure it can be done rather
easily.

Similar right wing bits could be concocted by a "Hollywood Committee
for Decency in Films", although I don't see how one could have been
fitted into this movie.  Because of the general tone, anything rightist
would have stuck out like a sore thumb even though the movie was not
basically political.

Hmm, I'll put up yet another $25 for the best way of adding a bit of
rightist propaganda to "Mistresses".  It must be genuine rightist
propaganda and not a bit spoken or done by one of the characters for
the audience to laugh at.  Best would be something that could have
been written by the "Hollywood Committee for Decency in Films" for
general purposes but which nevertheless could be put into
"Mistresses".  No prize will be awarded if no-one comes up with
a candidate I consider plausible.

Please post your candidates if you can.
--
John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305
*
He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.

Newsgroups: alt.activism.d
From: md88-msa@alv.nada.kth.se (Mickael Salabasis)
Subject: question
Organization: Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 15:33:40 GMT

i am not sure this is the right place to post but i need info on a certain
stanford shaw , proff. history univ. of cal. in l.a
particularily : political alignment ,credibility 

if this was the wrong place to post pls come with a suggestion as to where i 
should turn with my request ...

email prefered
thanx

mike

Newsgroups: alt.activism.d
From: jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy)
Subject: Re: Usual Libels against Chomsky
Reply-To: jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
Date: 14 Sep 92 22:02:20

In view of Kalugin's denial, I require 3 to 1 odds in betting that it
actually was Stone.
--
John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305
*
He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.
Newsgroups: alt.activism.d
Subject: Re: Chicago Demonstration 9/19/92
From: bpharmon@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu
Date: 14 Sep 92 09:14:26 -0500
Followup-To: alt.activism.d
Organization: Miami University Academic Computer Service"

In article <1992Sep10.000619.24788@mont.cs.missouri.edu>, susan_soric@upubs.uchicago.edu (Susan Soric) writes:
> There will be a massive demonstration
> in downtown Chicago at 2 p.m. Saturday,
> September 19 at Daley Plaza, sponsored
> by a coalition of Muslims, Christians, and
> peace and justice groups united in their
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> call to end the arms embargo against
	  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^@!!!	
> Bosnia-Herzegovina and Croatia.
> 
	Why? 
WHy? so arms dealers can helkp the former Yugoslavians in killing each other?
What's wrong with an arms embargo?

Some peacce group.


=======================================================================
Brian Harmon         "Russia managed to get rid of their left-wingers,
Miami University	   why can't we get rid of ours?."
Oxford, Ohio 45056  		-Pat Robertson, Mr. Family Values
(513) 529-2063		"I know there's a light at the end of the
 yeech! ack!		tunnel, I just hope it's not a gorilla	
  ungh!				with a flashlight." -unknown 
--------------bpharmon@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu--------------------------
From: aws@iti.org (Allen W. Sherzer)
Subject: Re: The Crimes of Nicaragua (V)
Organization: Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 22:00:13 GMT

In article <1992Sep14.171013.20634@vexcel.com> dean@vexcel.com (Dean Alaska) writes:

>>When you intend to set up a dictatorship you got to have guns.

>The Sandinista's also gave guns to peasants to guard their farms.  Not
>something the Salvadoran government did.

It is also something the government of South Viet nam did. Does this
change your mind about that government?

Ignoring whatever political tests which where made (you may rest assured for 
example, that in areas where Contras had support guns whern't handed out)
this changes nothing. 

The fact remains that the words and actions of the Sandinsitas
show that they had no interest in democracy. 

   Allen
-- 
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Allen W. Sherzer | "If they can put a man on the Moon, why can't they     |
|  aws@iti.org     |  put a man on the Moon?"                               |
+----------------------222 DAYS TO FIRST FLIGHT OF DCX----------------------+
Newsgroups: alt.activism.d,alt.rush-limbaugh,talk.abortion
From: mtjachim@mtu.edu (Mr. M. T. Jachimstal)
Subject: Re: "Snapple" Anti-Choice?
Organization: Michigan Technological University
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 13:41:40 GMT

jrs@netcom.com (John Switzer) writes:
>In article <JYM.92Sep15001340@remarque.berkeley.edu> jym@mica.berkeley.edu (Jym Dyer) writes:
>>=o= I heard that "Snapple" brand drinks -- the favorite of
>>everyone's favorite idiot radio show host -- donates part of
>>their profits to anti-choice groups.  Can anyone confirm or
>>deny this rumor?
>
>Anti-choice? Ah, you mean pro-life. I hope the rumor is true. If so, 
>I'll start buying more of it.
>-- 
>John Switzer               | 50 years from now, nobody will
>                           | remember Candice Bergen or Murphy
>74076.1250@Compuserve.com  | Brown, but every school kid will
>jrs@netcom.com             | be taught about President Quayle.

So if pro-life=anti-choice then pro-choice must mean anti-life, eh?

Sounds good to me. Time to go out and buy a few cases of Snapple.

Matthew
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
|   Matthew T. Jachimstal       Michigan Technological University   |
|                                                                   |
| Amatuer Packet N9LMW@W8YY.#UPMI.MI.USA.NA | mtjachim@mtus5 BITNET |
| Telephone   (906) 487-0956  |  mtjachim@mtu.edu     Internet      |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------| 
Newsgroups: alt.activism.d