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Approved-By:  Bill McGarry <wtm@SHELDEV.SHEL.ISC-BR.COM>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.l-hcap
Date:         Thu, 19 Nov 1992 02:00:53 EST
Reply-To:     Bill McGarry <wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com>
From:         Bill McGarry <wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com>
Subject:      Handicap Digest # 3023

                             THE HANDICAP DIGEST

                                 Issue # 3023

                         Thursday, November 19, 1992

Today's Topics:


                                ******


                           Pride or Regression...
                                   ACTORS
                                   JURORS
                                    Ttds
                               New Born Deafie
                               New Born Deafie
                               Police Response
                               New Born Deafie
                                     SEE
                            Re: COCHLEAR IMPLANTS


                                ******


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Subject: Pride or Regression...
From: Ann.Stalnaker@f2120.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Ann Stalnaker)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:124/2120 - Fingers Talk, Irving TX


[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]

 PR> The ADA (American Disabled Act) was passed not too long
 PR> ago and I understand the 'right' term to use is "Disabled."

The terminology "Disabled" was being used long before the ADA
passed, however, those a part of the "Deaf Culture" do not
consider deafness/hearing loss a disability.  It is FACT
that hearing loss is a physical disability even though it is
an invisable one.

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!124!2120!Ann.Stalnaker
Internet: Ann.Stalnaker@f2120.n124.z1.fidonet.org



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Subject: ACTORS
From: Ann.Stalnaker@f2120.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Ann Stalnaker)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:124/2120 - Fingers Talk, Irving TX


[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]

 LG>   I sent this message before, and I got no replies.  I don't know whether
 LG> this is because no one is interested in the subject, or
 LG> whether my message just got lost.  So I am sending it
 LG> again.

Laurel, I'm glad you decided to send your message through again - as
far as I can recall, I don't believe it ever made it through the
conference the first time around.

 LG> What does everyone think about deaf protests against the use of hearing
 LG> actors in deaf roles?

This sounds like another radical protest that has not been covered
completely.  The reason I say this is you are not going to always find
a deaf person in a small town who is willing to act in the local
community theatre.  I don't see anything wrong with using a hearing
person in a deaf role or even a non-visually impaired person in
a blind role.  All of this is make-believe and gives a real challenge
to actors who are not disabled to play such roles.  I feel the
roles belong to the best person whether they are disabled or not,
and the same goes for nationality.

 LG>        I don't think that these Deaf and Asians actors
 LG> are really idealists fighting for a cause.  They just want jobs.

So many others want jobs, too - but it is really silly to protest
this.  Also, most acting jobs are non-paying unless you are talking
about Broadway, movies or television.  Look at Life Goes On with
Chris Burke who has Down's Syndrome, Marlee Maitlin who plays
Tess on the series Reasonable Doubts, Phyllis Frelich (sp?) had
the lead role in Children of a Lesser God on Broadway and has played
several TV roles on various series.  I think the entertainment industry
is doing very good at placing appropriate actors/actresses in disabled roles.

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!124!2120!Ann.Stalnaker
Internet: Ann.Stalnaker@f2120.n124.z1.fidonet.org



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Subject: JURORS
From: Ann.Stalnaker@f2120.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Ann Stalnaker)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:124/2120 - Fingers Talk, Irving TX


[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]

 LG> What does everyone think about deaf people on juries?  I think that, if a
 LG> deaf person is accused of a crime, it is only basic
 LG> justice to provide him with a free interpreter or with
 LG> captioning.

The law states an interpreter will be provided for a deaf person
who is arrested for a crime and the same goes for appearing in
court, etc.  One needs to contact their local DHS ahead of
time when appearing in court.  I don't know about elsewhere but
I do know in this part of the country, all police officers,
hospital personnel and ambulance personnel are being trained
to sign the basics as well as being provided with small cards
to carry that show the signs.  Many state agencies are providing
this training for city and state officials.

 LG> But deaf jurors are something different.  Contrary to what
 LG> some deaf people believe, the purpose of a jury trial is not
 LG> to provide an interesting, exciting experience for the
 LG> jurors.

It is very doubtful open captioning would be provided during
a jury trial but it is the right of every hearing impaired
individual to request an interpreter, sign or oral, if they
are summoned for jury duty.  I've been summoned three times,
the first two I was excused but the third time, I let the
judge talk me out of serving - something I regretted doing
but no sense in dwelling over it.  With the ADA now in
effect and more awareness of our rights and needs, I think
we'll be seeing more hearing impaired people serve on the
jury.

There are quite a few hearing impaired attorneys practicing
now - most of them are oral, many of them use TC.  My
brother is one of them.  A few years ago, there were only
5 known deaf attorneys but nowadays there are more.

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!124!2120!Ann.Stalnaker
Internet: Ann.Stalnaker@f2120.n124.z1.fidonet.org



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Subject: Ttds
From: Daniel.Laflin@f98.n374.z1.fidonet.org (Daniel Laflin)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:374/98 - The SCAM, Rockledge FL


[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]

SC>yourself as disabled! DEAFNESS IS CULTURE NOT DISABILITY TO HEALTHY THINKING
SC>DEAF PPL  they do not care for the value of sound and do not need it to have
SC>a  sucessful life. So please be more open to other ppls cultures! ASL IS A

This is PURE rubbish.... Anyone who has any hearing impairment has a Dis
ability,  In this world there is still much that depends on the heard
word, Dont tell me im Not disabled, it is a disability, without sound,
you cannot get a job as a telemarketer or any job that REQUIRES use of a
phone.

Im Deaf, been such since 7, i Grew up in 60s when mainstreaming was
still unheard of, had to fight to get back into public school, went thu
public school, vs hearing prople, I lipread and I consider anyone Deaf
who can ONLY communicate via sign DOUBLE Disabled.

Just how many as a pct of population do you think know Sign?

I consider sign as needed for those born deaf or deaf too early for
speech development, then sign is a good start, however once mastered,
the point should be to get aaway from sign and into lipreading.

As to this Culture Thing... Deaf is a Disability, NOT a culture, im sure
a number here will jump omn me, however, I would not classify Deaf as a
culture, etc...

I dont hear <g>...  Of Blind Culture, Paraplagic Culture, Amputee
Culture... I could go on... Deafness is a DEFECT in a Normal persons
body, and therefore a DISABLITY... your hearings shot, its same as if a
cars Battery was shot...

So spare me from the culture etc thing... I think its a attempt to Hide
from the REAL World.

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!374!98!Daniel.Laflin
Internet: Daniel.Laflin@f98.n374.z1.fidonet.org



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Subject: New Born Deafie
From: Daniel.Laflin@f98.n374.z1.fidonet.org (Daniel Laflin)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:374/98 - The SCAM, Rockledge FL


[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]

ST> SC> ALLOWED TO LIPREAD!!!! THE therapist covers his or her lips with

ST>Er, Sam, I believe that is a standard method of forcing the person to
ST>try to recognize what sounds they do get.  Once the recognization of
ST>sounds becomes automatic, the person would normally be expected to
ST>lipread in real life.  The theory is suppose to be that if you
ST>lipread during training you won't concentrate on the sounds as much.

Agreed... especially in cases of those who were deafened after learned
to hear, i lost it at 7, if i had a implant put in, They would have to
try to get me to recognize  as much as i could as i did BEFORE i learned
to Lipread.

No One I believe will hear all as thay did b4, but the point is to learn
to or relearn, some sounds, There is a difference with P B M words
hearing wise, not lipreading wise, being able to distingish some sounds
would enhance the lipreading ability.

The only reason I may be unable to have a implant is due to a batch of
colymicin based drugs that destroyed the nerve, ie: streptomycin and
related.

The damage could have also been at the hearing center of the brain, or
in the nerve path, so a implant is useless if the pathways are
compromised, in only the caes of the pathway being ok and the damage
being only in the Cochlear, I think is when a implant may help.

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!374!98!Daniel.Laflin
Internet: Daniel.Laflin@f98.n374.z1.fidonet.org



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Subject: New Born Deafie
From: Daniel.Laflin@f98.n374.z1.fidonet.org (Daniel Laflin)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:374/98 - The SCAM, Rockledge FL


[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]

AS>the cochlear implant but at my age now, I think I would go
AS>crazy hearing sounds I've never heard and besides, I've accepted
AS>my deafness and do quite well as I am.

Grin.... In My case it would be hearing sounds I havent heard in years,
If i had the implanyt I might or might not remember some sounds off the
bat... thats why the need for the no lipreading exercises.

Id guess the implant would bother one who never heard fully, and isnt a
child, a point on children: they are in a learning period, the minds
growing, its easay to learn new things, at a certain age, we just cannot
then learn new things easy.

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!374!98!Daniel.Laflin
Internet: Daniel.Laflin@f98.n374.z1.fidonet.org



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Subject: Police Response
From: Daniel.Laflin@f98.n374.z1.fidonet.org (Daniel Laflin)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:374/98 - The SCAM, Rockledge FL


[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]

FG> SC>  Yes that is very true about Police cuffing Deaf signers hands and
FG> SC> yes yes yes Deaf do get upset about This especially because this occure

FG>        I am reading this and I am wondering if Deaf signers would not
FG>        be able to prevent this sort of ignorant misunderstanding if
FG>        they wore medic alert bracelets like diabetics, etc, do? Some
FG>        message like 'I am deaf and talk with my hands; don't cuff me'
FG>        would at least alert any caring peace officer to the fact that
FG>        he has an unusual "client" on his hands.

The Police must think first of THEIR safety... being deaf doesnt mean
one will not up and use those hands to grab a gun, etc and attk them.

The bracelet would help AFTER the cuffing, after cuffing, and checking
to be sure the persons no threat, then the police should by law have to
uncuff one, else be SUED for civil rights violation.

If those who sign think they have it tough... well as a lipreader, ive
had police stop me at night, and their spotlight makes it impossiable to
lipread their words.

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!374!98!Daniel.Laflin
Internet: Daniel.Laflin@f98.n374.z1.fidonet.org



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Subject: New Born Deafie
From: Daniel.Laflin@f98.n374.z1.fidonet.org (Daniel Laflin)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:374/98 - The SCAM, Rockledge FL


[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]

SC>Deafness as a culture and not a Physical Handicap! I Have Learning

It IS a physical Handicap, in the sense that a part of your body is non
functioning... no different then if the nerves for your Legs will not
work, its the SAME thing, in that sense, a physical defect in the
nerves.

No Matter how you feel, it is a handicap, it is a disability, and the
refusal to accept that it is, can only hold you back, once understand it
is, then the point is to learn how to get past the disability, ASL is
only a stopgap, to really FUNCTION in the world one needs to Lipread and
TALK orally.

If you came up to me, trying to tell me someone is dying, I would have
no idea of what you are saying, nor would any normal hearing person, and
so the fact YOU refuse to get past your handicap, to learn lipreading,
ti use oral skills, a person would die.

I do not think anyone whos deaf, who is HIDINg in the fact their deaf,
and trying to hide from the world, will ever be anythiung but a fully
disabled person, a ASL only person is More disabled then a lipreading
deaf.

And even more then a lipreading/ oral speaking Deaf.

All of you talking of culture are only trying to hide from the hearing
world, and not face the facts of life.

Im very thankful that my parents wanted me to go back into public
school, at 7, enough to threaten legal action vs the schools, and also
glad that the NJ school of the DEAF, recommended ,me to be mainstreamed,
saying that being put in a DEAF school, when I was ORAL, and already
knew speech, would have only been to Handicap me, and limit me, While I
can say it was not fun, nor did i get as much help, the challenge  to do
as good as those who could hear and to overcome my limits was important,
in a deaf school, in a PROTECTED area, your not being challenged as
much, and are being protected from the HARD, COLD, REAL World.

The most satisfying point i remember too is geting a score on my 12th
grade areawide test that put me in reading in the top 5 pct of all
taking the test, county wide, a score meaning i did better then 95 pct
of all tested... thats better then 95 pct of HEARING people in High
school at that time.

Im Stone Deaf... and I lipread, I can talk to almost ANYONE, i dont
usually need help like someone who only signs, You people talking
Culture, talking of ASL as a language are deluding yourselfs.

SC>Disabiities and I would not change a thing! I believe deafness to be a
SC>characteristic just like a person as an ethnic group which Deaf Community

Deafness is a STIGMA not a Charastic, And like a ethic person who talks
in a language unlike english, your considered odd, strange, unwelcome.

As to Deaf Community, I consider myself part of such, insofar, that the
community is of those who are Deaf, however i simply dont consider it a
CULTURE.

SC>          True empowered Deaf people dont obsess about wanting to
SC>hear and think that Deafness is their Idenity!

those BORN deaf, or deafened before learned much of sound, simply have
no knowledge of what they lost, since they never had it, they never knew
it, and so, you may think your of a group/culture, however all you are
is a small part of the vast number of hearing impaired, and nothing but
a person who has a part of their body crippled, that you are disabled,
that your not NORMAl, you would make a better case if the Deaf were a
NATION, and it was a NATURAL thing, Deafness is NOT natural, so it is a
abberation.

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!374!98!Daniel.Laflin
Internet: Daniel.Laflin@f98.n374.z1.fidonet.org



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Subject: SEE
From: Pam.Richardson@f75.n375.z1.fidonet.org (Pam Richardson)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:375/75 - Pam's, Montgomery AL


[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]

Jennifer,

Thursday November 05 1992 17:04, Jennifer Satterwhite wrote to Pam Richardson:

 PR>> SEE?

 > I am under the understanding that SEE is "Signing Exact English".

You mean word to word - just like written English?

Can you (or anyone else out there) suggest the best method to
'remember' some of the signs?  This is my biggest problem.  We'll
have a class, study, go over the signs, etc., and then *boom* the
next day, I can't remember some of them! You all will probably say
"Practice, Pam, practice."  ;)

The teachers I've had have suggested those of us who do not have
someone to practice with, to look in the mirror while signing.
Would this REALLY work? - even though I would know what I'm
signing?

Pam

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Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!375!75!Pam.Richardson
Internet: Pam.Richardson@f75.n375.z1.fidonet.org



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Subject: Re: COCHLEAR IMPLANTS
From: Jay.Croft@f421.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Jay Croft)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:109/421 - Twilight Clone Mac, Rockville MD


[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]

Welcome, Dario!  We are glad to see you here.

And thank you for your comments about the cochlear implant.  One
friend tells me that he has to avoid security metal detectors in
airports--the enlectro-magnets set off awful vibrations in his
metal cochlear implants.

Some airport security officials refuse to believe him and think
he's trying to smuggle something through.

But even worse than this is subjecting innocent children to surgery
for cochlear implants.  Meanwhile, the doctor rakes in another
hefty fee!

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!109!421!Jay.Croft
Internet: Jay.Croft@f421.n109.z1.fidonet.org



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                  End of Issue # 3023 of the Handicap Digest

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