From: lebow@psl.nrl.navy.mil
Subject: Re: Estimates of the incidence of illegal abortions
Organization: NRL 
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 23:37:05 GMT

In article <1993Jan27.005534.549@nas.nasa.gov> dking@raul.nas.nasa.gov (Dan
King) writes:
>
>In article <C1Frr7.9zA@ra.nrl.navy.mil> lebow@psl.nrl.navy.mil writes:
> 
>>I'm apparently much older than you. .....I knew some sexually
>>promiscuous guys and they ALWAYS carried a condom in their wallets and used
>>them.  Believe it or not, the fear of getting a girl pregnant was very real
to
>>these guys.
> 
>If these are some of your arguments for why abortion should be
>illegal, isn't it also a very good argument for why condoms should
>be illegal.  You say how the availability of abortion makes kids 
>less concerned about getting pregnant, but in this paragraph you
>also say how promiscuous guys ALWAYS carried condoms.  Wouldn't
>making it tougher for them to get condoms also make them less
>promiscuous?  Could you please explain the difference to me?

I'll try.  First, I see you've made some assumptions about the purpose of my
statement which, though plausible, are not really what I was trying to relate
to Alison.  Limiting promiscuity was not my goal here.  I was trying to point
out that promiscuity has risen greatly since RvW and I feel the availability of
abortion has contributed to it.

It is certainly possible that, back then, making condoms less available would
have made some guys think longer before getting a girl pregnant.  The penalties
were much higher then than now.  As Alison pointed out, things were hushed up
then because of the shame associated with teenage pregnancy. I'm not sure I
understand your point.

  

> 
>>Many types of contraceptives kill the recently conceived human.  To many
>>pro-lifers this is no different than an abortion.  Please take this into
>>account before jumping to the conclusion that all pro-lifers are against all
>>birth control.
> 
>But the argument you use in this article can also be used by
>those that oppose all forms of birth control.  

Sorry to sound so dense, but I don't follow.  Alison had made a comment which
to me implied that the reason many pro-lifers object to contraception was that
they really despised promiscuity.  I don't deny that at all.  I was pointing
out that even pro-lifers who consider sexual practice to be a private matter,
still can object to certain abortifacients.

> 
>>I can't speak for Edward but I would say to you (as I would my daughter),
>>"Please please don't have sex until you are financially and mentally able to
>>bear a child. ...Know that I will not allow you to have an abortion unless
your life is
>>threatened. "   Aside from the anti-abortion statement, is what I've said so
>>unreasonable?
> 
>I have taught my children that I don't believe they should have
>a sexual relation until they are ready.  I have described to them
>the pitfalls as I see them to having sexual relations prior to
>being ready.  I have also explained to them, much as you have,
>what to do just in case they do not head my advise and have sex
>prior to being ready.  They should be responsible in that case and
>use birth control.  Just as I can not always count on them to head
>my advise regarding when to have sex, I also recognize that they 
>may not head my advise in how to have sexual relationships 
>responsibly.  In that case, I am glad that the option of 
>abortion is available to them.  So why do you allow your children
>to take precautions if they don't listen to you in one instant,
>but don't allow them precautions in another.
>
>>- Paul
> 
>Dan King
>

Come on Dan. As one dad to another, what I "allow" and what they actually do,
don't often coincide.  I hope you weren't expecting me as a pro-lifer to equate
abortion with a "precaution".  I understand you may feel that way.  For me, at
conception the damage is done - there's no turning back. Should my child become
a teenage parent I would be angry, hurt, feel I had failed as a parent.  I
would, never the less, continue to love and support my child (and grandchild). 
To me that's one of the liabilities of having children - often their problems
and mistakes become the parent's responsibility.  That's life.


- Paul

Newsgroups: talk.abortion,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,talk.politics.misc