HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jimsp@strider (James Spears)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Driver clunk
Date: 19 Aug 92 22:15:46 GMT
Organization: Intel Development Tools Operation, Hillsboro, OR

In article <1992Aug19.121940.89806@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au> che238n@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au writes:
]In article <1992Aug18.144628.26610@bradley.bradley.edu>, casey@bradley.bradley.edu (Chris Langston) writes:
]> In <1992Aug18.113122.89790@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au> che238n@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au writes:
]> 
]>>I would be interested yo know how long it is since 4449 and 2472 were
]>>overhauled.
]> 
]>  If my memory serves me correct. 4449 had some running gear work done in 1990,
]> But I don't think that was on the side rod bearings. The 2472 is a fresh   
]> rebuild, I think it was first steamed last fall or early this spring.
]That explains it then. Can anyone who has knowledge of the last bearing work
]performed on 4449 confirm? Better still, anyone who actually did the work...

Well since the SP&S 700 shares a roundhouse with the 4449 I guess that puts me
in a place to know (right :-)

In 1990 they pulled the pilot truck out an rebuilt it with new wheel sets. 
Replacing the friction bearings with inside roller bearings. In in 1988 or 89
the number two right main bearing was rebabited after being scorched on the 
trip to Los Angeles. Before that we machined a new number two right main (yes
same bearing) in 1986 (?). Before that I was not around enuff to tell I'll
ask when I'm down there this weekend. But to the best of my knowledge he's still
running with the rod bearings the engine was retired with.

Our main rod bearings had to be replaced after we turned the pins so they round 
again. The builders specs call for ~1/32" grease clearance. We also did the 
wrist pins and most of the other rod bearing after the trip to Yakima Wa. 
Guess what? *NO* rod clank!!!!

james
jimsp@strider
-- 
James Spears           General Manager C. E. Keen Flume & Lumber Co.  ---------
                              Steam Forever! 4-8-4's have more fun!   | PLATE |
jimsp@strider1.hf.intel.com      Pacific Railroad Preservation Assoc. |   C   |
Intel, Hillsboro, Or.               and Railfan at large.........     ---------
From: roma@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Jon Roma)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Employee Timetables - Carl Loucks
Date: 19 Aug 92 21:53:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: ux1.Bt93HE.E6F
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign

tvervaek@col.hp.com (Tom Vervaeke) writes:

>As a new railfanner, I am trying all I can do to learn the ropes
>in the local territory - Colorado Springs. We have 3 major rr's
>here: BN, Sante Fe, and some SP (swallowed our old D&RGW).      

>While reading Trains magazine I can across an advertisement for a 
>guy called Carl Louck. In the 9/92 issue it is on page 16 to the
>left. He sells older employee timetables and the like for some
>reasonable. For example, a 1989 vintage BN Denver is $12. Has anyone
>here ever used these things? He claims they contain data on
>railroad operations, stations, signal rules, mileages. etc... Many
>have complete maps and grade profiles.
>a great way to learn something local.

Employee timetables are indeed very handy sources of information to learn
about railroad operation or the physical characteristics of a part of a
railroad.  However, the prices charged by Carl are typically way out of
line with what the stuff is worth.

Burlington Northern employee timetables are VERY common -- there's no
reason anyone should pay more than about $3 to $5 for a recent BN issue.
Current issues will fall in the high end of the above range because of
their relative scarcity; once they are superseded, the price drops.

Of course, very old issues will cost more but, by and large, timetables from
the big roads (BN, Santa Fe, NS, ICG, UP, etc.) are so plentiful that they
aren't too expensive for even 20-year-old issues.

Carl's ads receive wide coverage in the railfan press.  Since display ads
in _Trains_ aren't cheap, he has to charge high prices for common stuff
like the items you mentioned.  These ads target novice railfans that don't
know what the advertised stuff is worth; you'd be better off finding a dealer
who doesn't advertise so heavily and charges more realistic prices.  

>Is it possible to get these things from employees locally on the
>side? I.E "offer" them a few bucks for a current copy? I really
>want to learn all the inside stuff regarding mile posts, sidings,
>grades, etc..

You may or may not have luck doing so.  A lot depends on the feelings of
the employees and their knowledge or impression of you.  Remember, employee
timetables are technically not for the public and many railroads frown on
them being given out, especially when they're current issues.

The best place to get employee timetables is from one of the mail order
dealers who have classified ads in the ``Trains Turntable'' column of
_Trains_ or from one of the many railroadiana swap meets that take place
around the country every year.

If so inclined, drop me email and I will suggest a few dealers of whom I
have favorable opinions.
-- 
Jon Roma
Computing and Communications Services Office,
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Internet:  roma@uiuc.edu      	UUCP:      uunet!uiucuxc!uiuc.edu!roma
From: che238n@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Driver clunk
Date: 18 Aug 92 11:31:22 +1000
Organization: Computer Centre, Monash University, Australia

In article <karl.20.714016573@empirical.com>, karl@empirical.com (Karl Auerbach) writes:
> A couple of weeks ago I chased 4449 and 2472 down to Watsonville.
> 
> While they were turning the train at the Y, I couldn't help but hear the 
> drivers on 4449 making rather loud clunks each time the driver went
> around.  The 2472 was quiet.
> 
> Is it normal for the rods to be so noisy?
> 
> 			--karl--

Depends on the condition of the bearings. If the bearings are worn then they
can make a VERY loud clunk. Railfans in Victoria (OZ, the epicentre of the
Universe) who can remember preserved K184 before it was withdrawn will remember
the terrible clanking from the rods. Imagine a damped bell, well it was like
that. I would be interested yo know how long it is since 4449 and 2472 were
overhauled.

David B.
Steamrail Victoria
From: johnm@hpmcaa (John Mosbarger)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Employee Timetables - Carl Loucks
Date: 20 Aug 92 19:27:40 GMT
Organization: HP Cardiology Business Unit - McMinnville, OR
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5


     I have to agree with Jon Roma.  Carl's prices are too high.  If there
are any railroadiana swap meets in your area, chances are good that there
will be at least one vendor selling timetables.  Employees usually don't
give away their tt's, since they're required to carry one with them while on 
duty.  You might try asking an agent in one of the smaller towns.  Sometimes
they have some that have been superceded.  

     IMHO, the frequency for the EOT's is occasionally handy.  However, if
there is a train nearby, and since the EOT transmits continously, you won't
hear any crew chatter.

     Another suggestion would be to ask around right there at your division.
There are some railfans there that post to the net.  Or drop by Caboose 
Hobbies in Denver.

     Just my $.02 worth, again and again :-).

--
John Mosbarger
HP McMinnville, OR
johnm@hpmcaa.mcm.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: ggg9y@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Garth G. Groff)
Subject: OFFICIAL RAILWAY EQUIPMENT REGISTER
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 16:08:52 GMT

Is there anyone out there in netland who might have a
copy of the OFFICIAL RAILWAY EQUIPMENT REGISTER from
somewhere between 1953 and 1959 that they would be
willing to sell?  My university library had two, but
they threw them away, even though people had checked
them out about 10 times in the two previous years.
Thanks.
~S
--
Garth (Haridas) Groff
"Not yet famous author"
ggg9y@poe.acc.virginia.EDU         Chant "Govinda Bohlo Hare"
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis
Date:         Tue, 18 Aug 92 10:18:40 CST
From:         Derek Morgan <C31801IE@WUVMD>
To:           NETNEWS@WUVMD
Subject:      Re: Restroom Closings on Amtrak (Was: My Amtrak Vacation)
Newsgroups:   rec.railroad

I believe that Amtrak has the installation of holding tanks as a high priority
for its fleet overhaul. As cars go in, they are being retrofitted. This also
means that slumbercoaches will disappear, since there's no way to add holding
tanks for 22 (?) rooms.

Derek
From: sfsmith@pennsas.upenn.edu (Sandy F. Smith, Jr.)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: 63rd Street Tunnel (was Re: NYCTA - to JFK)
Date: 13 Aug 92 15:35:05 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <1992Aug12.160941.22439@news.columbia.edu>, 
brennan@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Joseph Brennan) writes:
> 
> Think bigger though.  Using the Van Wyck Expressway alignment proposed
> this year for some silly light rail thing, run from JFK Terminal to
> LaGuardia, but then on into the Northeast Corridor line.  Operate
> various Amtrak highspeed services to points north via Hell Gate (New
> Haven) and Penn (extension of Albany trains) and south via Penn
> (Trenton), as well as maybe LIRR express to Grand Central via 63d St
> every 15 minutes and subway service via 60th or 63d St tunnels.  You also
> want a through service from LIRR eastern points to both airports.
> 
Impressive indeed.  But now I'm curious:  are there provisions for mainline
rail connections in the 63d Street tube?  I thought the only future provision
made there was for the (don't hold your breath) 2d Avenue Subway...
___________________
Sandy F. Smith, Jr.
Graduate Division, School of Arts and Sciences, University of Pennsylvania
16 College Hall, Philadelphia, PA 19104-6378.  (Opinions mine, not Penn's)
Internet: sfsmith@pennsas.upenn.edu
 
"The God I serve don't make no trash!" -- Rev. Emanuel Cleaver, Mayor, City
of Kansas City, Mo.
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: pswanson@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Paul Swanson)
Subject: Re: Cost of transit systems vs highways
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 22:17:11 GMT

In article <57495@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin) writes:
>
>
>I have no objection to those who want a carless city to build it with their
>own money--no tax money.  You will find few people with initiative who would
>be willing to travel only when the government allows them.  Real estate values
>would be low, as few wish to live in rabbit warrens.
>
>But if you want a city to contain a government for those who want cars,
>provide parking for those people.  Otherwise you are taxing people for
>what they may think is utter waste.

This whole post is fairly unclear to me but particularly puzzling is the
phrase "travel only when the government allows them."  There are
certainly means of independent travel without the use of a car.  What
ever happened to walking?  I personally don't own a car and I live right
in the middle of auto dependent New Jersey suburbia.  How auto dependent? 
Well most people in my apartment complex DRIVE their trash to the dumpster.
I get around using a bicycle since I live too far away from everything
to walk.  Believe me, its easier than most people realize.

Paul.
From: chris@endgame.gsfc.nasa.gov (Chris Shenton)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad,dc.general
Subject: Re: DC Metro and RFK Concert
Date: 14 Aug 92 17:05:22 GMT
Distribution: dc
Organization: none

In article <1992Aug14.133954.22013@wam.umd.edu> chuckm@wam.umd.edu writes:

   I heard on WTOP this morning that Metro is *not* going to
   run any extra trains or extra hours for this weekends U2
   concert at RFK.  The concert is scheduled to
   end at 11:30pm and Metro plans to close at midnight.

   Does anyone have any additional information about this?

If you park in a residential area around there, you *will* get a
ticket -- no question about it. It's restricted, and the cops come out
usually 15 minutes after the event (game, concert, etc) starts and get
everyone.

I live three blocks from RFK and see it all the time. It's the one
thing in DC which *is* efficient.
From: schumann@msus1.msus.edu
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Colorado Train Help
Date: 13 Aug 92 11:42:34 -0600
Organization: Minnesota State University System

In article <1992Aug13.152736.24958@col.hp.com>,
tvervaek@col.hp.com (Tom Vervaeke) writes, in part:
> I recently moved to the Colorado Springs area. I've always been
> interested in trains but have not avidly watched them. Well, I've 
> really got the bug now. There is a lot of train activity here
> in town. I believe I am on the main north-south route for all 
> activity coming through Colorado. I've purchaed a handheld scanner
> and spend oodles of time listening to the yard and dispatchers.
>  
> Where I get lost is in figuring out all the terminology, routes,
> etc..  Is there anyone in the area who can lend a hand to a newcomer?
> I tend to hang out just north of town in a very small town called
> Palmer Lake.

The current issue of _Pacific Rail News_ (if my memory is correct)
contains a good article on railfanning the line you're asking about
where it goes through the Air Force Academy.  The article includes a
good description of the rail traffic on the north-south route that you
are asking about. 

I don't have the article here in my office, but I do recommend that
anyone who shares your interest on this so-called "Joint Line" check
out the article.
--
   Paul L. Schumann, Ph.D.           |  VAX:  IN%"schumann@MSUS1.MSUS.EDU"
   Professor of Management           |  Office Phone:       (507) 389-5349
   Mankato State University          |  Secretary's Phone:  (507) 389-2966
   Mankato, MN   56002-8400          |  Fax Number:         (507) 389-5497

Xref: sparky rec.railroad:6502 ba.transportation:1990 talk.politics.misc:39827 talk.environment:3261
From: nolan@twg.com (Nolan Hinshaw)
Subject: Re: Top Ten Shrines of Western Railroading ( Was: Re: Tehachapi)
Reply-To: nolan@twg.com
Organization: Railfanz-R-Us
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 17:21:37 GMT


Candidates for the top ten list:

	Sims Loop on the WP (now UP) line into the Feather River Country
	West Side Lbr. Co, the Last of the Three Foot Loggers
	Sierra Rwy, the runningest short line in the country
	The Royal Gorge

--
Nolan Hinshaw
Internet: nolan@twg.com			Dingalingnet: (415)962-7197	
"If you don't know how to do something, you don't know how to do it
 with a computer." David Wittenberg, in Risks Digest 13.70
"Boy, was I in for a dose of reality." Randall K. Abler
"... necrophilia doesn't really hurt anybody."  Rick Gordon
"Well, first of all, your stance is too wide"

Xref: sparky rec.railroad:6522 ba.transportation:2006 talk.politics.misc:39960 talk.environment:3269
Newsgroups: rec.railroad,ba.transportation,talk.politics.misc,talk.environment
Subject: Re: Cost of transit systems vs highways
From: bob@1776.COM (Robert Coe)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 92 16:34:47 EDT
Distribution: na
Organization: 1776 Enterprises, Sudbury MA

joshua@Veritas.COM (Joshua Levy) writes:
> In article <FP8DPB2w165w@1776.COM> bob@1776.COM (Robert Coe) writes:
> >But weren't the freeways built first, when land values and construction 
> >costs were lower?  
> 
> No.  Trains, still a common transit system predated cars.  In New York City,
> the subway was built in the late 1800s or very early 1900s; before cars were
> a big deal.

HEY, WAIT A MINUTE!!  I was talking about the subway and freeways in ATLANTA, 
GEORGIA.  The discussion, the beginning of which you must not have seen, had 
to do with the relative cost of Atlanta's roads and subway system, and the
question you quote had nothing to do with New York or any other city.
 
> People want to to to homes, buisnesses, and public places, but mass transit
> can only go to train stations (or maybe bus stops, but busses are slower
> than cars, polute almost as much, and so on..)  Since trains can only go
> to train stations, which almost no one wants as their end point, a train
> based transportation system can never to were people want to go.

Having just cited the example of New York City, how can you possibly make a
statement so obviously absurd?

   ___            _                                           -  Bob
   /__) _   /    / ) _   _
(_/__) (_)_(_)  (___(_)_(/_______________________________________ bob@1776.COM
Robert K. Coe ** 14 Churchill St, Sudbury, Massachusetts 01776 ** 508-443-3265
From: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Death Announcement: SEPTA Trolleys in North Philadelphia
Date: 15 Aug 92 03:29:16 GMT
Reply-To: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins)
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA

In article <86217@netnews.upenn.edu> sfsmith@pennsas.upenn.edu (Sandy F. Smith, Jr.) writes:
> As of yesterday (8/13/92), it's official:  the world's longest trolley line
> will be no more.
> 
> Despite obvious problems with operating streetcars on this city's narrow
> streets, IMHO, there is still plenty of room for streetcars in Philadelphia's
> transit mix; given enlightened City policies and a stronger committment from
> SEPTA, they might even flourish.  I think the City could be persuaded on the
> former; I hold little hope for the latter.

Sad news...  I suspect Philadelphia has more paved over trolly tracks than
most any other city.  The trolley have held out so long and they don't put
much money into serious street rebuilding...

-- 
George Robbins - now working for,     uucp:   {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!grr
but no way officially representing:   domain: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com
Commodore, Engineering Department     phone:  215-431-9349 (only by moonlite)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: coleman@zoo.toronto.edu (Ron Coleman)
Subject: British Columbia Railroad
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 22:10:51 GMT
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology

Is anyone out there knowledgable about the BCR (British Columbia 
Railroad)?  I'm trying to find out some info about their operations
(partly out of interest, and partly for modelling).  For example,
when I was railfanning in West Vancouver last week (such trips are
too few and too far in between) I noticed that almost all the freight
cars heading north out of North Van are either BCR or Procor (chemicals??)
I presume that many of these are empties related to the forest industry
since that comprises the bulk of BCR revenue, but why no other companies
cars?  Do they specifically dissallow other cars, or is there simply
nothing going north on the BCR?  What is so special about Procor?  
There does seem to be a mix of cars in the North van yard, including
CN, CP, BN and others.  Does BCR repackage incoming stuff onto BCR
cars to go up north?  Any information on this or any other aspect of
their operations would be greatly appreciated.
-- Ron Coleman
From: bob@1776.COM (Robert Coe)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: UP hog train
Date: 18 Aug 92 02:18:53 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: 1776 Enterprises, Sudbury MA

larsenp@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Paul Larsen) writes:
> The interesting thing about this [UP] train [in Nebraska] was that it was a 
> mixed pig train.  It had its obligatory piggyback cars but it also had some 
> other interesting cars.  Just behind the engines were probably 6-8 green 
> cars labelled HOGX each with a ton of live hogs obviously going to market.

Some of you cornbelt railfans can check my figures, but I make that out to be
no more than 8 to 10 hogs per car.  Sounds a little low.  ;^)

   ___            _                                           -  Bob
   /__) _   /    / ) _   _
(_/__) (_)_(_)  (___(_)_(/_______________________________________ bob@1776.COM
Robert K. Coe ** 14 Churchill St, Sudbury, Massachusetts 01776 ** 508-443-3265
From: gnn@wsl.dec.com (George Neville-Neil)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad,ba.transportation
Subject: Re: RR bridges, was Cost of transit systems vs highways
Date: 17 Aug 92 17:17:08 GMT
Reply-To: gnn@wsl.dec.com (George Neville-Neil)
Distribution: na
Organization: DEC Western Software Lab

In article <1992Aug15.051323.19656@s1.gov>, lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich) writes:
|> 	Actually, the Bay Bridge was once used for multiple-car trains
|> for the first few years of its existence, after its construction in
|> 1938 or so, but its engineers worried like hell over whether the
|> bridge could support these trains. After that, it was used by the Key
|> System light-rail system until 1958, with no real qualms from the
|> engineers :-) There is a proposal to revive rail service across the
|> Bay Bridge, called BayLink, but it is also expected to involve
|> light-rail vehicles. I haven't yet seen any proposals for light-rail
|> service across the Golden Gate bridge, however.
|> 

OK, here is the real dope.  Sorry Loren, but I have to make this post every
few months.

When the Bay Bridge was completed and opened to rail on the lower level
it carried three railroads.  The Sacramento Northern, Southern Pacific
IER and Key System.  After 1941 only Key remained.  Key was not a light
rail system, as no such thing existed at the time.  A Key Bridge Unit
(of which 88 were built) weighed roughly twice what a UMTA LRV (San
Francisco) weighs.  There were still qualms from the engineers but
since rail demand dropped off after WWII it never made the papers again.
All three railroads that operated over the bridge were electric and 
all were heavy weight in their axle loadings, for passenger trains.

|> 	I'm mentioning weights here because I wonder if weight is the
|> big problem with trains on suspension bridges.
|> 

BTW When specifying train weights the important number is tons/axle.

I.e. if the F40 has four axles (I never remember this) it's loaded
at 80tons/4 axles 20tons/axle, which isn't that heavy compared to something
like a GP7 which is 30tons/axle.

Later,
George


-- 
If you believe that there is a god, a god that made your body, and yet
you think that you can do anything with that body that's dirty, then the
fault lies with the manufacturer.
					Lenny Bruce
Xref: sparky rec.railroad:6531 ba.transportation:2010 talk.politics.misc:40015 talk.environment:3271
From: gary@ke4zv.uucp (Gary Coffman)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad,ba.transportation,talk.politics.misc,talk.environment
Subject: Re: Cost of transit systems vs highways
Date: 16 Aug 92 14:47:06 GMT
Reply-To: gary@ke4zv.UUCP (Gary Coffman)
Organization: Gannett Technologies Group

In article <16842E164.M00209@MBVM.Mitre.Org> M00209@MBVM.Mitre.Org writes:
>In article <FP8DPB2w165w@1776.COM>
>bob@1776.COM (Robert Coe) writes:
> 
>>beyond that, Boston (the city with whose situation I'm most familiar) has
>>found that the opening of a new subway station invariably results in an in-
>>crease in pedestrian traffic and land values in the vicinity of the station.
>>"Where people want to go" is to some extent driven by where the transit sys-
>>tem goes.
>>
>That has been the universal experience in Toronto, from the opening of the
>original Yonge Street Subway through every extension since.  When the Subway
>started running, pedestrian traffic, local business and land values have always
>increased.  The development around Eglinton when the original line opened was a
>phenomenon that wasn't anticipated by the planners, but has since been repeated
>with every new addition to the system.

On the other hand, we have MARTA. The eastern terminus of the system 
has deteriorated from a prosperous shopping area to a rundown area
of vacant shops. Some areas that were commercial hubs before MARTA came,
still are, the Lennox station, Bell Center, and the airport. But the Five
Points area, Omni Complex, Auburn Ave, and so on have not seen development
of pedestrian areas and retail stores. MARTA rail has served these areas
for over 20 years now and development has been either stagnant or actually
declined. Meanwhile the golden triangle formed by I-75, I-85, and I-285
on the north side of town have boomed. This has been the major area of
growth that has taken Atlanta from the 16th largest metropolitan area
in the US to the 12th largest over the same time period. It's basically
unserved by rail.

Gary
Newsgroups: rec.railroad,ba.transportation,talk.politics.misc,talk.environment