HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: thf@zelator.in-berlin.de (Thomas Funke)
Subject: Re: Software lock-in, NeXT get a life!
Reply-To: thf@zelator.in-berlin.de (Thomas Funke)
Organization: NNU Corp. - NeXT is Not UN*X
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 17:26:41 GMT

In article <eronald.724544541@ruble> eronald@fml.tuwien.ac.at (Edmund Ronald)  
writes:
>  I write. I write for a living. I write on my cube, when I can. Then I have
>  to hand the copy in to an editor.   Said (human :) editor sits in front 
>  of a PC. My text is usually in French, contains all these nice accents
>  which the french seem to need like salt and pepper.
> 
>   There is a DOS Ascii character set, and a Windows character set. 
> 
>   HOW THE HELL IS ONE SUPPOSED TO MOVE TEXT TO EITHER? 
>   AM I THE ONLY MAN IN THE WORLD WHO GETS ANGRY ABOUT THIS?
>   OH, YES, I KNOW ABOUT RTF. ON THE NEXT RTF MEANS NEXT_RTF :(
> 

Same with german umlauts. Did someone manage to transform NeXT-RTF to PC-RTF ?  
I believe it's not too difficult.

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------
Thomas Funke  ** E-mail: thf@zelator.in-berlin.de
NeXT-Developer * Unix-Consultant
------------------------------------------------------------------
From: alex@cs.umd.edu (Alex Blakemore)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
Subject: Re: Papersize for man -t (ptroff)
Date: 15 Dec 92 06:31:42 GMT
Organization: U of Maryland, Dept. of Computer Science, Coll. Pk., MD 20742

In article <1gab4dINN16m@uniko.uni-koblenz.de> droege@infko.uni-koblenz.de (Detlev Droege) writes:
>> 2. What default can I set to format the manpages in A4 and then print it in A4?
 
> Call ptroff with the additional option "-l 11in".

just in case you didnt see it in the man page for man,
you can set an environment variable called TROFF 
to be the formatting command invoked by man -t

so you can do something like 
setenv TROFF ptroff -man -t -l 11in

you may have to experiment to see if the -man and -t are required,
but I've used this successfully on lesser computers

-- 
---------------------------------------------------
Alex Blakemore alex@cs.umd.edu   NeXT mail accepted
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: jjfeiler@relief.com (John Jay Feiler)
Subject: Re: Paget CD-ROM
Reply-To: jjfeiler@relief.com
Organization: relief consulting
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 05:10:23 GMT

In article <1992Dec10.031232.4840@leland.Stanford.EDU>  
spagiola@frinext.stanford.edu (Stefano Pagiola) writes:
> John Bartley writes
> > I may have missed a post about the status of this - if so, could  
> > someone please fill me in? 
> 
> A recent mailing (snail-mail variety) said the EAW had been delayed  
> and would be out in January.

From what I hear, the master disk goes to press on or about the 15th, and  
after a week or two of testing, it should be out in January.

	John

> 
> --
> -
> Stefano Pagiola
> Food Research Institute, Stanford University
> spagiola@frinext.stanford.edu (NeXTMail encouraged)
> spagiola@FRI-nxt-Pagiola.stanford.edu (NeXTMail encouraged)
From: dwalters@trees.forestry.umn.edu (David K. Walters)
Subject: another silly printing question
Keywords: lpr printing
Organization: University of Minnesota
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 19:34:58 GMT

I'm trying to print to a NeXT printer with lpr and the various options  
(-T, -pr) do not seem to work. I would like to print the name of the file  
at the top of the page. Seems like it should be easy...
From: bill@mathnx.math.byu.edu (Bill Smith)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
Subject: NRW- coming soon
Date: 14 Dec 1992 20:26:13 GMT
Organization: Brigham Young University
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: mathnx.math.byu.edu

Well, I'll pass another rumor on from a friend.  While the
88110-flavor box has been dropped, another design based
on it appears to be the version they will release.  It has
a multiprocessing feature with plug-in sites for several
cpu's, you just have another plugged in if you want it.  The
alpha is not going to be the chip they use, it will also
not be P5. No waiting for 68060 either.  Not R4000-etc.
Not Sparc.  Not IBM.  Want to take a guess what's driving
it?  Will there be a cube version?  Don't know, but maybe.
They think they have an great hardware future....
Way back when I passed the 88K rumor along, it looked
really solid.  Moto had promised a good deal on the chips.
Now this one looks even more solid.  But who knows?  One
thing they are a little nervous about is perception of
stagnation.  They are certain this design will win 
price/performance wars for some time though.  An interim release
will drive the beasts (3.1 or maybe 3.2).  Its supposed to
be able to do software video compression with enough speed
so that the special hardware is not necessary.  Also, there
is some kind of new sound solution too.  DSP may be gone.
Wait and see I guess.
-Bill

--
Professor William V. Smith
Phone: 1-801-378-2061 Fax: 1 801 378 2800
email: smithw@hamblin.math.byu.edu  or   
uunet!hamblin.math.byu.edu!smithw
NeXTmail: bill@mathnx.math.byu.edu
SMail: Math Dept. -- 314 TMCB; BYU; Provo, UT 84602 (USA)
From: ovrskeek@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (I am the OVER-skeek!)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
Subject: Re: 100 Mips Intel NeXT.
Date: 12 Dec 92 00:55:52 GMT
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: matt.ksu.ksu.edu

songer@lexmark.com (Christopher Songer) writes:

>Still, Intel drives volumes high enough that while their chips may not be
>the fastest per transistor, they are often the fastest per dollar. Economy
>of Scale is very important here. (Hence the reason NeXT didn't go with the 
>88k.) Next is not in the super fast workstation market -- they are in the 
>desktop market. They need a processor base that has a reasonable tradeoff 
>between speed and price. Motorola cannot not even keep up with Intel in terms 
>of chip speeds and Intel lags the Riscs by about a year.

I may be going out a limb here, but :-) ....

I seem to remeber reading in comp.arch a price comparision in which the 
r4000 was cheaper than the 486! (cpu's only). How much do you think intel
is going to gouge for a P5? Whats availability going to be like? How
long after the release until they get the bugs out?

These other chips are available now! If its really going to take until 3rd
quarter 93 to get NS486 out, why not do another port, but to a real chip?
Then NeXT could announce NS486 as the low end machine, and one with some
real speed as the base NeXT hardware!

>Next could adopt a "low volume" high performance Risc architecture, but they
>would have to abandon the low end of the market. The Pentium will sell well and
>run far faster than the current 68040 based machines. It will be out probably
>a year before the 68060 and Next has already done a significant amount of
>porting work to the family. The 80486 is already out and running at higher 
>speeds than the 68040. The silicon is probably cheaper.

I agree, Moto has blown it. No way should NeXT stay with the 68xxx line.
Too bad, because the 68xxx is *WAY* better than the x86. Moto, what happened?

>The 80x86 dominates the applications markets. It will have a huge market for 
>the next decade at least. There is too much development invested in it for it
>to go away overnight. If Next stays with Moto's 68K they will perform like a dog 
>for the next year and a half. If they go to a Risc like the R4000 or the 88K 
>they are commiting to paying premium prices for their processors and doing a port to
>an architecture that does not have an installed base to insure its survival. 
>Their choices seem quite limited and the Intel line seems the best. It is ready 
>soon, the work for a "complete" port has been going on for some time, it is
>going to be cheap and there will be a "next chip" in the family.

Yes, I agree that the x86 has a huge market. It has too much invested to just
dry up. 

But huge market has never been what NeXT was all about! Yes, there is
stability in the x86, but it is old news, old technology. Where is the
future? Not with the x86. NeXT has always led the way, with innovative
software and hardware. Where has the dream of new horizions gone? Anybody
can follow the leader. Why wont NeXT lead anymore?


--------------------
ovrskeek@matt.ksu.ksu.edu
From: ricardo@pencom.com (Ricardo Parada)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
Subject: Re: 100 Mips Intel NeXT.
Date: 18 Dec 92 23:20:01 GMT
Organization: Pencom Software

In article <1go1j6INN2dq@gap.caltech.edu> madler@cco.caltech.edu (Mark Adler)  
writes:
> 
> >> But which chip they choose is very important and not an easy decision!
> 
> Is it all that important?  Especially considering the ease with which
> applications are being ported to NeXTstep 486?  And considering their
> insanely-great production line that can be reprogrammed in no time?
> There's no problem with coming out with a different processor every
> year.  Your distributed executables might start to get a little large,
> but there would be some utility to keep only the part for your machine
> so it wouldn't clog up your hard disk.
> 
> Mark Adler
> madler@cco.caltech.edu

But if they choose a dead end microprocessor they'll have to support it  
forever.  I guess as long as it is not the 88110.  I can't believe what  
happened with the 88110, after getting all these rave reviews and technical  
excellence awards.  I wonder if the Power chip will be as good!

--
+ Ricardo J. Parada
From: jeffo@uiuc.edu (J.B. Nicholson-Owens)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
Subject: Re: Converting Mac PS fonts to NeXT?
Date: 21 Dec 92 00:26:29 GMT
Reply-To: jeffo@uiuc.edu (J.B. Nicholson-Owens)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

Todd Enders writes
> The bug is indeed unfortunate, since there are several True Type Mac 
> fonts in PD that beg conversion

This is unfortunate, but perhaps not beyond fixing.  It is a lot of  
money to spend if one's sole purpose is to fix that bug (and should  
really be fixed in Metamorphosis Pro), but perhaps purchasing Altsys'  
Fontographer, loading in the TrueType font in question and saving to  
NeXT format would help?

This also has the added bonus of being able to use an excellent program  
(the likes of which don't even *exist* for the NeXT, anyone feel like  
making a font editor?) to tune up the font as a whole.
-- 
-- Jeff (jeffo@uiuc.edu)
-- NeXTmail welcome
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: yikes@netcom.com (Michael Brill)
Subject: Booting off external SCSI disk
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 18:31:56 GMT

 need to boot off an external Syquest (SCSI) drive which I have
previously built.  

What is the boot command that I give to boot of the external drive
instead of the internal drive?

...Michael Brill

-- 
----
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: rsrodger@wam.umd.edu (Yamanari)
Subject: Re: 100 Mips Intel NeXT.
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 02:35:30 GMT

In article <1gbh7hINNn7v@agate.berkeley.edu> nweaver@soda.berkeley.edu (Nicholas C. Weaver (The Weeniehead)) writes:
>
>	Why do people make the assumption that NeXT will actually put out a
>box based on the Intel chip?  I doubt NeXT would make hardware that is in

	Because it would be the absolute stupidest thing NeXT
	could *possibly* do.  While this logic might escape some,
	real NeXT users know that this is all a part of NeXT's
	secret plan to become the great domineering force of
	computing.  Why, what else but devious planning could
	account for actually *raising* prices on machines that had been 
	out (but not upgraded) for a year..  HMMMMMmmm.


>machines in Freemont.  The NeXTstep 486 will most likely be sold to those
>who bought the wrong computer in the first place, or to clone-makers who


	Or to people bright enough to read the writing on Motorola's
	wall who decided to get a little something for their money.


>	Also, the r4000 is a nice chip, (64 bit processor and everthing,
>although it's pinouts make it look like a real porcupine), but is SGI
>letting it out?  SGI owns Mips now, and so they effectively controll the


	I believe the R4000 is/is going to be available from at least
	three or four different vendors.  I've never understood the
	arguments against the R4000.


>	Furthermore, is the Alpha available to other vendors?  The same goes


	Anyone know--I'm curious about this one^

>for the POWER chip.  And, as for SPARC, NeXT would do better with the same

	^ and this one.

	I didn't hear people making the same comments about the
	(obscenely late) 88110 (being single-vendor), so I can
	only assume it's SGIophobia.


-- 
 Snout: O Bottom, thou art chang'd!  What do I see on thee?          
 Bottom: What do you see?  You see an ass-head of your own, do you?  
 ---"I despise mystics, they fancy themselves so deep, when they----
 ----aren't even superficial"    --Nietzsche   ---------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From:  (slugg jello)
Subject: Re: NeXT Music software???
Reply-To: slugg@mouthers.wa.com
Organization: Mouthing Flowers
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 06:53:06 GMT

In article <1992Dec9.171814.14971@infodev.cam.ac.uk> wfc@cl.cam.ac.uk (William  
Clocksin) writes:
> In article <1992Dec7.174102.23906@wam.umd.edu> mmeltzer@wam.umd.edu writes:
> > 
> > Is there a package that will actually typeset music and let you hear it.
> > By typeset, I mean let me put notes on a staff and so forth.
> 
> The program you want was annnounced in the press recently, and will be  
marketed  
> by RightBrain.  It will be called MusicScribe, although the advertisement in  
> NeXTWorld incorrectly called it "Score".  MusicScribe does lute tablature,  
> gregorian chant, figured bass, as well as ordinary notation.  Very high  
quality  
> output intended for the publishing industry, but with a fast and simple user  
> interface.  Contact RightBrain for details.

There's just one BIG catch.  MusicScribe won't score chords.  That is, you  
can't put more than one note in the same vertical spot in the same staff.  As  
far as I'm concerned, this cripples it for doing most modern music.  Give me a  
break!  What kind of market is there for scoring Gregorian chants?  Until now  
the other music scoring software companies have been chicken to market anything  
on the NeXT because they thought there was too small a market.  And Rightbrain  
thinks they can justify their entry with software that won't even score  
chords!!!

And another thing...with MusicScribe you can't enter the notes via MIDI.   
Entering a large score note-by-note with the mouse is very tedious.

I'm still waiting for a good music scoring package; when it arrives I will buy  
it immediately.  Unfortunately, MusicScribe is still a joke.  But I gotta hand  
it to them for trying -- for having a lot more guts and spirit than some other  
unnamed software companies out there;  true musicians spirit I daresay. I  
really hope that they can turn it into something great.

-- 
Doug Kent
slugg@mouthers.wa.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: The easy way to install fonts (Re: Good NeXT ps font collection loaded to sonata!)
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 13:15:00 GMT

In article <1gqa6tINNham@menudo.uh.edu>
sears@tree.egr.uh.edu writes:

>I guess that everyone misunderstood my question.  I know how to use  
>buildafmdir and cacheAFMData to install new fonts.  I also know about  
>FontInstaller.app from Adobe.  Apparently they do not do exactly the same  
>thing, because after I install fonts with FontInstaller.app, the following  
>directories are created:

>afm
>bitmap
>outline

I think that's the old way (prior to 2.0) fonts were
installed.  The newer idea is for everything about a font to
be in a directory called <fontname>.font (the outlines, the
afm files, the bitmap files).  I noticed that buildafmdir
does not update the separate directories.  I thereupon
deleted the three directories, to no ill effect.

-- 
[Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin]
[Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson]
[Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888]
[---------> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <---------]
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: werts@piggy.cecs.csulb.edu (Michael Werts)
Subject: Re: NRW- coming soon
Organization: Cal State Long Beach
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 17:49:35 GMT

I'm inclined to think that Next will eventually go with
a Motorola RISC chip, either the PowerPC chip or an 88k
derivative for the simple reason that they have a good,
steady business relationship with Motorola and I think
that is important to any computer company.

I don't think it would be possible for Next to have that
same kind of steady, long-term business relationship with
HP.

--

MICHAEL WERTS -- werts@csulb.edu
Computer Engineering Computer Science
California State University Long Beach
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: yf5990@u.cc.utah.edu (Yan Fang/Humanities)
Subject: Re: 100 Mips Intel NeXT.
Organization: University of Utah Computer Center Student Mail Machine
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 92 03:22:44 GMT

In article <1992Dec12.023530.11426@wam.umd.edu> rsrodger@wam.umd.edu (Yamanari) writes:
>In article <1gbh7hINNn7v@agate.berkeley.edu> nweaver@soda.berkeley.edu (Nicholas C. Weaver (The Weeniehead)) writes:
>>
>>	Why do people make the assumption that NeXT will actually put out a
>>box based on the Intel chip?  I doubt NeXT would make hardware that is in
>
>	Because it would be the absolute stupidest thing NeXT
>	could *possibly* do.  While this logic might escape some,
>	real NeXT users know that this is all a part of NeXT's
>	secret plan to become the great domineering force of
>	computing.  Why, what else but devious planning could
>	account for actually *raising* prices on machines that had been 
>	out (but not upgraded) for a year..  HMMMMMmmm.

People aren't assuming that NeXT will put out an Intel box, they're
making educated guesses.

NeXT is actively asking potential customers if they want an Intel-based NeXT
box. I don't know the answers they are getting, but NeXT is asking the
question. I haven't known NeXT to let the cat out of the bag before
they've put a cat in the bag.

As far as why they would port NeXTSTEP to Pentium rather than to sexy
64-bit CPUs: Pentium is the upgrade path of tens of millions of machines
in the horizontal market as well as in vertical markets. Pentium makes perfect
sense for a firm who wants to sell the DOS of the 1990s--MIPS, Alpha,
Precision don't.

-- 
Yan Fang-Magnusson
Ph.D. candidate, philosophy, University of Utah
yf5990@u.cc.utah.edu
yanfang@cc.utah.edu (NeXTmail)
From: caj8106@rccnxt1.tamu.edu (Curtis Johnson)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
Subject: Re: 100 Mips Intel NeXT.
Date: 14 Dec 1992 05:47:25 GMT
Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station, TX
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: rccnxt1.tamu.edu

In article <mike.724093217@starburst.umd.edu> mike@starburst.umd.edu  
(Michael F. Santangelo) writes:
> lschultz@pdx255 (Leonard Schultz) writes:
> 
> 
> >In article <1992Dec8.205422.746@qb.rhein-main.de> vhs@rhein-main.de  
writes:
> 
> >Ah, from a sexy/horsepower point of view, we would all like to see  
this.
> >Wouldn't we?  But let's look at the realities of this, which NeXT must
> >face.  PA-RISC is a proprietary processor.  So if NeXT designs a  
system,
>         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


In the case of which chip to use, I think that NeXT is doing the right  
thing.  We must remember that the only thing that is keeping NeXT from  
blowing everyone away is shrinkwrapped apps.  Porting to the Intel chip  
should give developers a chance to right for the NeXT platform.  If  
nothing more, NeXT can use Intel to get the developer support it needs.  
 
 <dream sequence>
If I were running NeXT I would stay with the Moto chip for a low end line  
of machines (but cut the price to almost a 0 profit margin, just to boost  
sales), build a PA-RISC box :) for the high end (something that can have  
up to 4 processors, similar to the SUN 10).  
	
I would then make ports in the following order.
	
	Intel				In the bag
	PA-RISC				Build black PA-RISC boxes, yeah!
	SPARC				The people have spoken!
	RS/6000				IBM dropped the ball on this one!
	ALPHA				SGI w/NeXTstep whoa!
	PowerPC				After all the above have been port
					ed PowerPC should just be coming
					onto the scene (in 5years maybe).

Just the way I'd do it.    

--
Curtis A. Johnson
caj8106@tamsun.tamu.edu
NeXTmail Accepted
From: marcos@kaleida.com (Paul Marcos)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
Subject: Re: HOWTO: move windows w/o making key or ordering front
Date: 20 Dec 92 22:57:31 GMT
Followup-To: comp.sys.next.misc
Organization: Kaleida Labs, Inc.

In article <1992Dec20.101130.1723@qb.rhein-main.de>, vhs@rhein-main.de
(Volker Herminghaus-Shirai) wrote:
> 
> In article <1992Dec19.165840.8945@netcom.com> dcode@netcom.com (Paul Marcos) writes:
> > Enough people requested it to be a pain in the butt to 
> > mail to everyone individually so here's how to do it:
> > 
> > There are 4 line changes and 2 line additions:
> > 
> > Lines 1176 through 1179:
> > 	change from:
> > 		5 index num //_frontWithClick exec
> > 		7 index 7 index 6 index
> > 		12 3 roll
> > 		4 index //buckyBitMask and
> > 
> > 	to:
> > 		5 index num
> > 		9 index 9 index 7 index
> > 		14 3 roll
> > 		6 index //buckyBitMask and
> > 
> > After Line 1181 (which reads 'icon 1 eq or {')
> > 	insert:
> > 		pop pop
> > 
> > After Line 1184 (which reads '}{')
> > 	insert:
> > 		//_frontWithClick exec
> > 
> > For those who care, the first 4 line changes basically 
> > move the _frontWithClick call down to put it after the 
> > Alternate key check.  That call takes two arguments off
> > the stack (and leaves nothing) so the following index
> > parameters are all incremented by 2 so they just look over
> > the extra stuff that sitting at the top of the stack.  
> 
> Are you sure? Seems to me you increment by two in all cases but one.
> I.e. making the line 
> > 		7 index 7 index 6 index
> read
> > 		9 index 9 index 7 index
> seems to me like incrementing 6 only by one instead of by two.
> 
> Please clear this up. I won't dare change my WindowServer before
> I know what's going on here. (Then, however, I'll gladly do so :-)
> 
> Thanks anyway for the nice hack.
> 
> 	Volker
> 
> --
> Volker Herminghaus-Shirai (vhs@qb.rhein-main.de)
> 
> Looks good on the outside, but -
> 	intel inside

Yes, that was a typo.  I have tried it both ways and it seems to 
make no difference.  There is probably just something sitting on the
stack that ends up not being used.  Interesting, though, why it
would work both ways.  

I think the correct way to do it is to increment all parameters by 2 
so the correct line would read
    9 index 9 index 8 index

Good luck.


..............................
Paul Marcos
Kaleida Labs, Inc.
marcos@kaleida.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc