From: dchatterjee@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Re: The Quran and the Modern Science
Date: 2 Jan 93 14:44:35 CST
Distribution: world
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

In article <1993Jan2.123854.13163@topaz.ucq.edu.au>, 
>salama@topaz.ucq.edu.au writes:
>..... (deleted)......
>>
>       I have nothing to do with MSA and I condemn all sorts of death threats
> or any type of threats at all.

  Please read the "abusive"/ provocative posting from MI on SCI and SCP. He is
  proud of it. (I have replied back in equal terms and more serious action is 
  to follow. This is going too far !).

>>..... (deleted)..... 
>      I knew it was easy to admire Jesus Christ (PBUH) but hard to follow him
> that is why he says that those who want to follow him should carry their
> crosses.
>
  There is a catch in your statement here. Christ (PBUH) is an Epitome of 
  Forgiveness. It is impossible to attempt following him. You can only try
  to do your best. Thus Christ being the upper limit, we dwarfs just only
  have to look up. That's the best we can do. Transcending mundane and routine
  moorings/ chores is extremely difficult. However, it does *not* imply that
  you cannot be getting a reward *unless* you do things like Christ. We mortals
  can only carry the cross - but that's all !
 

>> 
>      It is not what cannot be explained by Hawking's theory rather Hawking's
> theories cannot be verify. Let me put it this way, what can be verified in
> cosmology? Very little.
>

 Let me ask you: (1) what is the easiest way to verify Uncertanity Principle ?
                 (2) How many different types of measurements can you take in
                     Electromagnatic Theory ???? (I mean what are the physical
                     parameters you can measure ?) Does the limitations in
                     taking experiments invalidate Maxwell's Equations ?????
 
  I *know* that Feynmann said that quantum mechanical theories are extremely
  hard to come by. Because measurements and accuracy are limited by the
  Uncertanity Principle. (I am sorry I just seem to have forgotten the exact
  reference.) Direct verifications are *not* possible. For example, can you 
  devise an experiment that will verify Schrodinger's equation (term by term)
  in *differential* form ?????? If not, then according to your logic
  Schrodinger's equation is *probably* incorrect and that nothing much can be
  learnt from Schrodinger's equation ! Moreover, Schrodinger's equation gives
  the probability wave function in (x,y,z) assuming time harmonic variation.
  That complicates matters further, because probability theory leaves room for
  much cosmic speculation, isn't it ????? ! (I think that L.I.Schiff would run
  amok, naked for such a blasphemeous statement 8-)).

  Thus: what *cannot* be verified experimentally does *not* invalidate a
  theory. In many cases the limitations of *a* theory are understood only
  when experiments are made. Then the theory is *modified/ agumented/ revised/
  or abandoned*. Recent journals in Physical Review (particles and fields) and
  JMP (Journal of Math. Physics) reveal that Hawking's theory is still the
  basis in founding the Quantum Theory of Gravity. I totally disagree with you
  in your attempts to dismiss Hawking's theory. Probably it will soon be
  decided whom to give (Hawking or yourself) the Nobel Prize for Physics 8-) ?


>..... (deleted)......
>       It seems to me that you are just scratching on the surface instead of
> diggin deep. A personal testimony is NOT feelings/emotions (though sometimes
> they are) but in this case it is a scientist's story of his search for the
> truth. He intreprets and searches through the eyes of a scientist and draw
> some significant inferences which he has presented in his book. It is that
> simple. You may dispute his inferences but I don't see how you can dispute
> his credibility of doing so and its technicality. I haven't seen a single
> argument discrediting his inferences so far, rather the emphasis is on
> discrediting him as a scientist, which I find rediculous.

  I understand your point here. "A Brief History of Time -- S.W.Hawking" is
  truly a *personal testimony*. The reasons are numerous. Hawking *has* been
  able to establish a *mathematical* theory that have at least provided 
  partially the results at NASA/ JPL on "black holes". (Why this quest is
  something redundant) here. Qur'an contains assertions that seem quite
  simplistic. Many other scriptures from other religions have also the same
  "flaw" (!). They are intelligent records of observations and then attempts
  to seek a Divine Regularity in those observations. But, what Milind Saraph
  says in his quote(s) from Prof.Hoodbhoy's book is quite alarming. Dr.B is
  honest in his attempt(s). No doubts. But, his attempts are misdirected as
  Qur'an is never a *scientific* book. (I am simply recalling what I have read
  in Marmaduke Pickthall's book, and, I am *certain* that Youssef Ali's 
  translation will *not* contain a different interpretation.)  Thus, the whole
  attempt to find "science" in Qur'an is a ridiculous attempt on the part of
  Dr.B. I hope that I am O.K with my arguments ?
 

> 
>      I do. :-|) You enter metaphysics through the very questions of physics
> such as "Can you see photon?". There is a very large twilight zone between
> physics and metaphysics.

  The twilight zone (which *was*) is getting into the deep-lit zone. Thus the
  modality of physical representations is getting more universal. Much to your
  dismay, perhaps ?

>      Thank you again. These apologies are good examples for the netters.
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

       The class of netters need to be identified.
      
>..... (deleted).....
>      All discriminations should be condemned. :-|)
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

       Please read your earlier posting, where you said "MI (Musfafa Ibrahim)
       is an outcast on the net." Isn't this *some sort* (not necessarily bad)
       kinda discrimination ?????

>.... (deleted)......

      - deb chatterjee
    (a good samaritan)

Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.bangladesh