HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jlundy@bilbo.encore.com (Joe Lundy)
Subject: Re: Eckersley NOT better than Fingers
Organization: Future Dads Assoc.
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 17:08:48 GMT

In article <1992Apr15.082408.1891@Princeton.EDU>, niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc "Ibuprofen" Nieporent) writes:

|> 77		14-13 3.53
...including no-hitter

[Illustrious career of Dennis Eckersley condensed:]

|> 88		4-2   2.35  45 Sv  
|> 89		4-0   1.56  33 Sv  55-3 k/bb
|> 90		4-2   0.61  48 Sv  73-4 k/bb 
|> 91		5-4   2.96  43 Sv

Dave, Thanks for the stats.  Clear as day to me...

|> "Baseball stathead, and card-carrying member of the ACLU.  And proud of it."
 
ACLU?  Didn't Lew Alcindor play for them?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Joe Lundy           Encore Computer Corporation, 6901 W. Sunrise Blvd.    |
| jlundy@encore.com   Mail Stop 811, Ft. Lauderdale, FL  33313-4499         |
| "You've got a new imagining coming, In Your Face." - Lei Wang		    |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: dgh2@quads.uchicago.edu (Doug G. Huffer)
Subject: Re: A pitch clock?
Reply-To: dgh2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 22:25:47 GMT

In article <1992Apr3.052712.6287@midway.uchicago.edu> thf2@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>In article <1992Apr3.050339.16357@news.iastate.edu> twap8@isuvax.iastate.edu writes:
>>	Wolff said he plans to try to speed up play by using a 20-second 
>>clock for pitchers and a 90-second clock between stories.
>>
>>So what do you guys think about the clock?
>
>"Between stories"?
>
>Bill James, I believe in the 1985 Abstract, wrote of Charles Finley
>implementing a pitch-clock in the 1950's or 60's for the Kansas City
>A's to enforce a little enforced rule requiring (45?) seconds between
>pitches.  The pitchers would be really annoyed when a loud buzzer
>went off in the middle of their windup.  Eventually, the umps just
>started enforcing it against the home team only and they took out the
>clock.
>-- 
>Ted Frank          + "A word is not a crystal, transparent and unchanged, it
>1307 E 60 St, #109 +  is the skin of a living thought and may vary greatly in
>U o' C Law Skool   +  color and content according to the circumstances and
>Chi, IL 60637      +  the time in which it is used."  --  Holmes

I think Bill Veeck wanted to put a big clock in at Comiskey to time the
pitcher, but when the league said that the 2nd base umpire would have
to control it, he gave up the idea.  Sounds like something the Sox  
would try, after all they used to refrigerate the balls before games to
make them not go as far.  
 

*************************************************************************
* Doug G. Huffer                   * 1992 World Series:			* 
* e-mail: dgh2@quads.uchicago.edu  * Royals over Cubs in 6		* 
* The University of Chicago -      * Hey! and like you predicted the    *
* Home of the Fighting Hana Grays! * Braves and Twins in 1991!!         *
*************************************************************************
From: niguma@ug.cs.dal.ca (Gordon Niguma)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Televised Jays Games
Date: 9 Apr 92 12:58:37 GMT
Distribution: can
Organization: Math, Stats & CS, Dalhousie University, Halifax, NS, Canada

In <1992Apr8.150903.7458@newton.ccs.tuns.ca> hennesse@newton.ccs.tuns.ca (Kenneth M Hennessey) writes:

>Whats the scoop on Television coverage of the Jays this year.
>I understand CTV will not be covering the games, except for 
>a handfull of CBS games on Saturday.  Did the any deal get arranged for
>regional coverage.  On opening day ATV (CTV atlantic affil.) covered the
>ONT. game.  I don't know how permanent this is.  

  I called ATV and they stated that they had picked up those Baton Broadcasts
from Baton. So basically we'll get more games now (due to CBC's coverage)
than we did last year with games from ATV,(replacing CTV telecasts), TSN
(60 or so games like last year) and CBC (around 20 games I think).

				Gord Niguma
				(fav player : John Olerud)
Organization: Senior, Economics, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 01:16:19 -0400 
From: King-Han Yao <ky0l+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Canada 6 New York 1
Distribution: na

On 16-Apr-92 in Canada 6   New York 1        
user Michael Le Houllier@oz.p writes:
>Well, seems as though Canadian teams have had their way with New York
>teams this week.  Over the weekend, the Expos paste the Mets for three
>straight victories.  Then, after a minor Jay hiccop in game one
>against the Yankees, the Jays put the Bronx Babies in their place,
>taking the next three games.

Too bad your point isn't relevant to New Yorkers.  I was rooting for the
Expos, as I'm sure many Mets fans were rooting for the Jays.

P.S.  It seems that everybody hates New York (the city, the teams, their
people), more than any other city.  This seems to be a form of
complement to most New Yorkers, including me.


-------------
King Yao                       
Economics 
Class of '92                   
Carnegie Mellon 

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: Fred McGriff
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Distribution: na
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 92 01:36:07 GMT

In article <1992Apr11.233136.20144@casbah.acns.nwu.edu> navarra@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (John Navarra) writes:

>	Yeah, not only can I think of a person with a better swing, I can
>think of two, two first baseman, both national leaguers: Will Clark and
>Mark Grace.

If Grace has a better swing than McGriff, why doesn't he produce offensively?

Oh, do you mean that you meant "artistic merit"?  Sorry about that.

===============================================================================
GO CALIFORNIA ANGELS!
Charter Member of the Acker-o-phobics Anonymous
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)
From: mc3d+@andrew.cmu.edu (Mary Rose Campbell)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Non-biased announcers (was Re: Biased Announcers)
Date: 15 Apr 92 18:28:29 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Fifth yr. senior, Chemical Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

(Deleted is a glowing review of Richie Ashburn's broadcasting skills)

You missed a few points.  First, you didn't mention Ashburn's partner,
Harry Kalas.  After growing up listening to these two call games, I
can't listen to any other broadcasters without thinking that they fall
short.  (I'll sit outside to hear Phils/Pirates games on 1210 rather
than listen to the Pirates version.)  Kalas also calls things as they
are, and is as informed as Ashburn.  They've been broadcasting together
since 1971, so they're comfortable together, and it shows.  Also, both
know the value of silence.  They'll let the mike pick up nothing but fan
reactions for a few seconds between pitches.  If they have something to
say, they'll say it, but they don't feel the need to fill the air with
pointless banter.  

On a related note, how many other fans are annoyed by
organists/announcers who have to have a theme for EVERY player who comes
to bat?  Especially when they're either ultra-cute or really bad puns? 
(i.e "Bonanza" for Bobby Bonilla, the 007 theme for Barry Bonds, the
theme from "The Dick Van Dyke Show" for Andy Van Slyke)

mrc
From: aaron@juliet.caltech.edu (Packman, Aaron I.)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Subjective trivia question
Date: 11 Apr 92 08:25:00 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.40

In article <204705@unix.cis.pitt.edu>, dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu (David M Tate) writes...
>In article <1992Apr10.060033.16657@watserv1.waterloo.edu> mwdwhite@watnow.waterloo.edu (Martin White) writes:
> 
>>>>Who would be your pick as the best offensive player to never lead the league
>>>>in any major offensive category?  
> 
>>How about Yogi Berra?
> 
>He's the one I had in mind.  Hard to find anyone better, in either peak
>value or career value, who never led in anything at all...
> 
I respectfully submit to your choice.  But this is almost like a trick question,
no?  It's like asking "how many MVP's can a player win without ever leading
the league in any major offensive category?".  I would never have guessed that
Yogi never led the league in anything, simply because he's done so much.  I 
guess I'm trying to say that if someone didn't know the answer right away then
they couldn't figure it out (without going to Total Baseball, etc.)  You knew
that Yogi had never led in anything, and you posed the question knowing the 
best answer.  Not that I'm really complaining--I had fun thinking about it.  But
I think I'll extend the question and ask who are the TEN best offensive players
who never lead the league in any major offensive category.  Now there'll be
some room for guesses and arguements.

aaron packman
From: king@cogsci.ucsd.EDU (Jonathan King)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: The Eck could start a game, too (was Re: Oakland A's Dream Team)
Summary: Eckersley is probably underestimated as a starter
Keywords: Eckersley, Red Sox, late 70s
Date: 10 Apr 92 18:31:41 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego

zuhars@madrone.eecs.ucdavis.edu (Gary Overshadowed By Fate Huckabay) writes:
>(Gary Blickhan) writes:
>>Dennis Eckersley doesn't deserve to be listed with (no less above) Fingers.
>>
>>Fingers was awesome!!!  He was on their great teams from 1973-1975, or 
>>whenever.  The Eck was the goat of the 1988 Series, and he didn't do
>>anything in 1990.  Championships and saves are important.  The Eck just 
>>doesn't compare.  He spent his time being a mediocre starter on the 
>>Cubs staff.

First off, Eckersley only spent about 3 seasons with the Cubs, and for
one of those years (1985) he was shockingly good, (169.1 IP, 145 hits
*19* walks, 117 Ks, and an ERA of 3.08 in Wrigley) while he was
certainly pretty good in 1984, too.  In 1986, he was not impressive.
But keep in mind: the Eck spent 9 years toiling in great offensive
parks, and three years pitching for very mediocre Indians teams.

>Rubbish.  Tripe.  Swill.  Wrong.  Foolish.
>
>You're right.  They don't compare.  Dennis Eckersley, from 1987-1991,
>is the greatest reliever that has ever played the game.  Rollie
>Fingers was a fine reliever, but just can't make that claim.

I have to admit, at first I thought Gary was probably stretching the point,
but then I looked it up, and here's what I found:

The Eck '87-91

games  IP   hits  BB   SO  runs

295   395.2  284  44  398   106

This is ludicrously good pitching, no matter how you slice it.  I
don't have data on inherited runners, but you wouldn't think that very
many could have scored given this performance.

> [stuff deleted]
>He was a pretty fair starting pitcher as well - not great, but fair.

Actually, I'd say he was better than that, and could have been truly
great if he had not been used so much when he was young.  He was
facing over 30 batters a game at the age of 22, and *then* Don Zimmer
got his hands on him.  But despite pitching in Fenway in the
offensively-supercharged late 70s, he managed to put up ERAs under
3.00 two straight years before the work and the park caught up with
him.  Then he got traded to the Cubs, where he had the pleasure of
pitching in Wrigley.  But somehow he managed to give up less than a
hit per inning his first two years there before having a miserable
1986.  And the rest, as Gary notes, speaks for itself.

By the time he becomes eligible for the HOF, I expect that there will be
a much greater appreciation of the importance of park effects, and thus
probably a much greater appreciation of his whole career, and not just his
career as a reliever.

jking
From: maj1@Ra.MsState.Edu (Mark "Beren" Jamison)
Subject: Re: Clark, Thigpen, Palmeiro?
Organization: Mississippi State University
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 11:59:20 GMT

ky0l+@andrew.cmu.edu (King-Han Yao) writes:

>On 13-Apr-92 in Re: Clark, Thigpen, Palmeiro?
>user Gary Abramson@uxa.cso.ui writes:
>>>John Miller, on ESPN's Sunday Night Baseball game mentioned that
>>>Palmeiro played with Clark in college (Mississippi State, I think).  
>> 
>>>Did Bobby Thigpen play on that same team?
>> 
>>>I remember a couple years ago someone mentioning on that college team,
>>>Will Clark batted third, Thigpen fourth, and Palmeiro fifth.
>> 
>>>Is that true?  or am I just imagining things?
>> 
>>You are correct. Bobby played the outfield.

>Do you have any more details about that team?  Such as how the three of
>them did, how well Bobby pitched (reliever or starter?) and hit, who was
>considered the best prospect, etc.  Any info would be appreciated.  

The 1985 Mississippi State Bulldogs has four players in the Major League

1) Will Clark 1B
2) Rafael Palmeiro OF/1B rarely
3) Bobby Thigpen OF/Closer
4) Jeff Brantley Starting Pitcher

To date Will holds the record for collegiate batting average at .395 with
an OBP somewhere near or above .500

Rafael Palmeiro Still holds the record for most Homeruns in a three year
career with 67

Thigpen actually did quite well, though never quite as good as the two above
his best strength was closing games, although I'll never forget him serving
up that pitch in the bootom of the ninth that sent us packing in the 85
College world series..

Clark and Palmeiro were seen pretty even coming out of College except for the 
fact that Clark Walked more and most of Palmeiro's home runs were Line Drives
which now translate into doubles, 49 of them last year.. Thigpen was
always looked at as a closer though he could definitely hit..

>I thought that having Thigpen batting between Clark and Palmeiro is
>really interesting.  Too bad he's not a starter in the NL, maybe he
>would've been a decent hitter.  

Although Thiggy not a bad hitter, the entire 85 MSU team was so full of 
Lefthanded hitters that Ron Polk wanted someone to go between Palmeiro
and Clark, and Thigpen got the job..



--
______________________________________________________________________________
                       Still looking for Luthien
maj1@ra.msstate.edu                                  maj1@beren.b17a.ingr.com
______________________________________________________________________________
From: cubsfan@camelot.bradley.edu (Michael Silverman)
Subject: Super Quick Bill James Review
Organization: Bradley University
Date: 11 Apr 92 03:55:56 GMT

For Rotisserie ball - nearly worthless
As a baseball book in general - Damn fine!

Some great essays...pick it up
From: maj1@Ra.MsState.Edu (Mark "Beren" Jamison)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Need some stat help here on Greatest Players in the 80's/90's
Keywords: Stats
Date: 6 Apr 92 18:07:09 GMT
Organization: Mississippi State University

Hi again it's Mark the pseudo stathead.. I'm looking for what players
the Net thinks have been the best during the era listed.. I'd like to 
the stats to back it up, you know the raw stats, not OBP or SA, or ERA..
I'd also like to see how many "One Year" wonders there have been in the
80's.. Same deal with stats, all help is greatly apreciated..
--
______________________________________________________________________________
                       Still looking for Luthien
maj1@ra.msstate.edu                                  maj1@beren.b17a.ingr.com
______________________________________________________________________________
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: navarra@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (John Navarra)
Subject: Re: Eckersley NOT better than Fingers
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 22:57:55 GMT

In article <1992Apr15.082408.1891@Princeton.EDU> niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent) writes:
>
>Where do you come up with these things?  He sucked for 1 year (83).
>
>Eckersley's starting career:
>75 Cleveland: 	13-7  2.60  2 Sv
>76 		13-12 3.44  1 Sv (200 K in 199 innings)
>77		14-13 3.53
>78 Boston	20-8  2.99
>79		17-10 2.99
>80		12-14 4.27
>81		9-8   4.27
>82		13-13 3.73
>83		9-13  5.61  Ouch.  Injury?  Only 28 starts, 176 innings.
>84 Bos/Cubs	14-12 3.60
>85 Chicago Cubs 11-7  3.08
>86		6-11  4.57
>
>Total, starter:	151-128 3.67  3 Sv.  Plus a no-hitter.  In Fenway & Wrigley.
>
	Yeah, I looked at his career stats as a starter and admittedly,
he did bit better than I thought, however, after '79 till the time he
became a stopper, Eck was less than a .500 pitcher and not a very effective
pitcher. Given that was 7 years and taking into account his age at the
time, he could have very well disappeared from baseball if not converted
to a stopper. I know of no other pitcher who spent 12 years as an average
pitcher only to become a great stopper -- and like I said, he was lucky
to get that chance for a good team at his age!

>
>Nobody, including the Hairless Primate, is arguing that Rollie wasn't
>great.  (*Is* great?  He couldn't even get out Manny Lee at his age.)  Just
>that the Eck is the best reliever ever over the last 4 years.
>
	I don't argue Eck has had the best 4 years of a reliever for all
time. However, perhaps I should mention Rob Dibble at this point. He is
not proven as well as Eck yet but if he keeps going on his pace, he
will far surpass Eck. I hope he doesn't lose his arm because he is truly
dominating when on.


-tms
-- 
From the Lab of the MaD ScIenTiST:
					
navarra@casbah.acns.nwu.edu
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Fielder will win the Triple Crown
Date: 7 Apr 92 01:52:55 GMT
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

In article <11988@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> zuhars@madrone.eecs.ucdavis.edu (Gary Overshadowed By Fate Huckabay) writes:
>x90townsen12@gw.wmich.edu writes:
>
>[Regarding a newly 'slim' Cecil Fielder]
>
>>> After dropping 20 pounds, he'll get a couple of leg hits every month 
>>> and maybe even steal a base or two.
>
>Hmmm.  That's about twelve extra hits over the course of a season.
>Cecil may have dropped to mere Hrbekian proportions, but that small
>amount of 'speed' he's gained is NOT going to give him 12 extra
>singles, nor stretch 12 singles into doubles, or even three doubles
>into triples.
>
>>> Anyway, he'll hit .320 with 44 HR and 132 RBIs
>
>I'll take that bet.  Here's a net.bet that he won't make 90% of ANY of
>the listed numbers.  That's a .288 BA, 40 HR, and 119 RBI.  He won't
>reach ANY of those plateaus.  Anyone else willing to stand on a table
>at a local pub and sing "I'm a Little Teapot" if they lose that bet?

I dunno, I could see him at 40 HR and/or 119 RBI.  

Incidentally, if Fielder *had* been able to get a couple more leg
hits every month last year, he woiuld have hit .280 instead of .261.

Which, though his career high, would be short of .288, much less .320,
much less what Thomas, Boggs, Plantier, or Palmeiro will hit to win the
batting crown.

>Right.   My money's on a different first baseman to do that, if it can
>be done.  Goes by the name of Frank.

Definitely.  Maybe not until Cecil's power drops a little more, but
if anyone will do it, Frank will.

Though if Canseco moves to a better park and starts hitting for BA
again, he has the capability of doing it.
-- 
Ted Frank          + "A word is not a crystal, transparent and unchanged, it
1307 E 60 St, #109 +  is the skin of a living thought and may vary greatly in
U o' C Law Skool   +  color and content according to the circumstances and
Chi, IL 60637      +  the time in which it is used."  --  Holmes
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols)
Subject: Re: I Told You Bonilla Was Worth the Money
Keywords: Seriously:  A Truly Different Mets' Team
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 17:51:20 GMT

In article <14263@pitt.UUCP> km@cs.pitt.edu (Ken Mitchum) writes:
>left, but by his attitude regarding the negotiations. He constantly
>pulled that "Bobby Bo's got to look out for his family" crap and
>accused the Pirates of never making a serious offer, which is not
>true.

I do think it's true.  The Pirates never made Bobby Bonilla an offer that
was competitive at the time they made it.  Doing things like making Bonilla
an offer, then signing Van Slyke for more money per year than you've
currently offered Bonilla, is not being serious.

>He also let it be known that he never gave staying in Pittsburgh
>any serious consideration. As he paraded through each other major
>leage city saying he would like to play there (until he hit the next
>city), he looked silly.

So what?  That's what I don't understand.  Why does anyone care?

>it. One has the feeling that if the Pirates came up with enough money,
>he might stay.

I don't have that feeling at all.  I don't think the Pirates have a chance
of signing Bonds.

> When Barry leaves, everyone will miss him, despite
>the problems he has had, and there will be no Barry-bashing.

Want to bet on that?

Sherri Nichols
snichols@adobe.com




Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: pokey@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Vince Rhee)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: And then there was one....
Summary: Yanks win! Yanks win!
Date: 15 Apr 92 01:38:10 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Yankees in the Heart o' the South


Monday night : Yankees 5
               Toronto 2

That leaves my not-so-lovable losers as the only undefeated team
left in MLB... Amazing.

- Vince

------------------------------------------------------------------------
|      TTTTTTTTTTTTTT      Vince Rhee (Texas A&M '90)                  |
|      T     TT     T      Dept. of Electrical and Computer Engineering|  
|            TT            University of Texas at Austin               |
|    AAA     TT   MM   MM  Office : ENS 136   Phone : none             |
|   A   A    TT   M M M M  ===> Reply to : pokey@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu    |
|  AAAAAAA   TT   M  M  M                                              | 
|  A     A   TT   M     M  We're livin' our dreams/My mind's stopped   |
|           TTTT           achin'/That's how it is livin' life by      | 
|		           th' drop     - Stevie Ray Vaughan           |	
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: sfh@po.CWRU.Edu (Steven F. Hubbard)
Subject: Re: Cardinal Fans Caravan
Reply-To: sfh@po.CWRU.Edu (Steven F. Hubbard)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 92 05:37:53 GMT



>|> >/ hpcvlx:rec.sport.baseball / cscdc@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Dan Carpenter) / 10:45 am  Mar 31, 1992 /

  Definately count me as a Cards fan!  I don't want to be left out of a
group as select as this one seems to be!  I just got my new Cardinals
road baseball cap!  

SfH
From: fwt4290@summa.tamu.edu (TSAO, FREDDIE WEI)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: New no no rule...
Date: 16 Apr 92 02:49:00 GMT
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41


	I think this new no-hitter rule is a joke. Why can't a pitcher receive
a no-hitter just because he pitches 8 innings. Look at it this way..teams play
half of their teams at home, and the probabilities of getting a no-hitter are
low enough, this stupid rule just cut that probability by half...How would
you feel if you pitched a no-hitter and not have it called as one just because
you helped the team win?

							Fred. 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball