HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: daveh@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,alt.folklore.urban
Subject: Re: Britain doesn't have a Constitution (Re: An astonishing Guy)
Date: 6 Nov 92 17:00:11 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620

In article <lfjeeeINN91q@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>, linden@positive.Eng.Sun.COM (Trelford Pinkerton) writes:
> From: streater@unixjr.SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Tim Streater)
>> There *is* an English Bill of Rights ...
>> It forms part of the written part of the Constitution.
> 
> A Constitution and a Bill of Rights by definition cannot be 
> mere laws passed by the standard legislative process.
> 
> As has been pointed out at greater length, a Constitution is
> an extraordinary code that sets the framework within which 
> all laws apply.
> 
> Britain therefore does not have a Bill of Rights or a Constitution.
> Of course, it's another question entirely, how effectively the
> US Constitution is applied and enforced in practice.
> 
> --
>    Inventor of the Lambada-Calculus.

But the UK will have a written Constituion if Maastricht is ever ratified :-(

Dave

-- 

David Hastings                      | "Imposition of order=escalation of chaos"
VAX Systems Programmer              |                     
Oxford University Computing Services| "Just when you think you've won the 
daveh@vax.oxford.ac.uk              |        rat race, along come faster rats"
               
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,soc.culture.canada
From: godfrey@sscvx1.ssc.gov (LAURENCE GODFREY)
Subject: Re: In your school?
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Organization: Superconducting Super Collider Laboratory
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 09:21:00 GMT

In article <1d9qaoINNl0c@fido.asd.sgi.com>, livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes...
> 
>In article <4NOV199204002647@sscvx1.ssc.gov>, godfrey@sscvx1.ssc.gov writes:
>> 
>> It's true, I dislike Canada a great deal.
>> 
> 
>I'd say that someone who announces his dislike of a
>country or society as diverse as Canada is taking a
>great risk.
> 
Why?

It is the lack of diversity that I disliked most.  Sure you have the French
culture and the Inuits, both of which you have done your best to suppress,
and I like those.  But the vast majority of Anglophone Canadians and hence
the vast majority of Canadians are utterly boring, with no diversity at all.
Even the Asians and Middle-Eastern people you have absorbed have lost their
identities and become just like everyone else - drab, mediocre.

Laurence
From: cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Chris Cooke)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Accent and Dialect, the politics there
Date: 12 Nov 92 17:56:28 GMT
	<BxJyLL.4EE@newcastle.ac.uk>
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Edinburgh, Scotland


   MDuPree@world.std.com (Micky DuPree) writes:

   >I've lost the original article for this thread, but I wanted to ask for
   >clarification.  Someone claimed that Scots could only be found on
   >television in comedies.  I've seen some of the Scottish Television
   >police drama "Taggart," which is set in Glasgow and concerns Glaswegian
   >characters.  My question is for those people who are in the camp that
   >says that Scots is a separate language from English: are the regular
   >characters on "Taggart" speaking Scots or are they speaking English with
   >a Scottish accent?

Some way between the two.  "Taggart" is intended to be understandable to
English viewers, so that STV can make much more money out of it, so it can't
have characters who speak pure Scots.
--
	-- Chris. 	cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk   (on Janet, cc@uk.ac.ed.dcs)
From: monaghan@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (N.O. Monaghan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Can the Prime Minster be Catholic?
Date: 8 Nov 92 22:14:31 GMT
Organization: Glasgow University Computing Science Dept.

I do not think there is any constitutional reason why the Prime
Minister should not be a Catholic. However I think there may
be something which would prevent a Catholic from holding the
position of Lord Chancellor, although I cannot remember the
details - but see any book on Constitutional Law.





-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------
N.O. Monaghan

monaghan@dcs.gla.ac.uk
From: jackson@soldev.tti.com (Dick Jackson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: VNS: Tue  3-Nov-1992
Date: 6 Nov 92 15:51:40 GMT
Organization: Transaction Technology Inc.

><><><><><><><><>  T h e   V O G O N   N e w s   S e r v i c e  <><><><><><><><>
...
>    Reading busses are evaluating a new "bio-diesal" fuel made from rape
>    seed oil. It is already in use in a number of European countries and is
>    less harmfull to the environment.

Driving up the San Diego freeway this morning on my way to work I heard
on the radio about how Jacques Delors (who, I was informed, is known in
Britain as the "Beelzebub of Brussels" - jolly witty!) was single handedly
stopping the EC being nice to the Americans over farm subsidies.

Haven't really kept up with this, but is it not this rape seed fuel
whose subsidy started the latest kerfuffle?

Dick Jackson
From: martin.baines@uk.sun.com (Martin Baines - Sun UK - SE Manager Cambridge)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: British citizen
Date: 6 Nov 92 17:10:50 GMT
Reply-To: martin.baines@uk.sun.com
Organization: Sun Microsystems Ltd
NNTP-Posting-Host: bottomdog.uk.sun.com

In article 11122@awdprime.austin.ibm.com, chris@ng.austin.ibm.com () writes:
>In article <1992Nov4.071512.6891@osf.org>, sp@osf.org (Simon Patience) writes:
>
>> 
>> I would have thought the first thing you would need to do is go and live
>> in Britain for a while, which should be easy for a German, all you need is
>> a job (and after Maastricht, maybe not even that). In fact, once
>> Maastricht is in effect you will be indistinguishable from a real citizen
>> with the exception of your passport, as your rights will be the same, both
>> in the UK and abroad. Other than you will still have to do German National
>> Service (I think they have it).
>
>
>> 
>Could some elaborate about Maastricht with respect to citizenship in the EC?
>Is it that beginning 1/1/1993, all EC nationals will be issued a EC passport?
>Thanks.

Not quite: all countries in the EC already issue a standard format
passport this will not change with Maastricht. The Maastricht
treaty establishes the idea of citizenship of the European Union
in addition to national citizenship. Each member of the EC will
be required to treat citizens of any member with the same rights
as citzens of their own country. This means that if you are
travelling abroad (outside the EC) then any country's embassy would
be required to provide the same protection as for their own
citizens. With in the EC it guarantees that one country can't
descriminate against anothers citizens over (say) employment,
health rights etc. It *does not* define who individual
governments define citizenship, nor does it create the idea
of a European Citizen who is not a citizen of a member state
(despite what the EuroSeptics might imply).

1/1/93 has nothing to do with Maastricht: it is the target
date for the implementation of the single market, as defined
by the Single European Act: basically a set of measures
further reducing the barriers to intra EC trade and movement
(although you might not believe that if you tried to make
sense of the "harmonised" VAT regulations!).

HTH

Martin

---
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"You might say that, but I couldn't possibly comment"

Martin Baines, Sales Support Manager,
Sun Microsystems Ltd, 306 Science Park, Cambridge, CB4 4WG, UK
Phone: +44 223 420421                 Fax: +44 223 420257
JANET:     Martin.Baines@uk.co.sun    Other UK:  Martin.Baines@sun.co.uk
Internet:  Martin.Baines@UK.sun.com
X.400:     g=martin s=baines prmd=sunir admd=mci c=us
From: gpalo@digi.lonestar.org (Gerry Palo)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Crime rates in Britain compared
Date: 12 Nov 92 22:46:10 GMT
Organization: DSC Communications Corp, Plano, TX

In article <1ds94jINNg1j@fido.asd.sgi.com> livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:
>
>In article <1992Nov11.121441.17722@cas.org>, jac54@cas.org writes:
>> 
>> 	About 18 months ago, the "Economist" observed that property
>> 	crime rates in some areas of Britain were approaching those
>> 	in the U.S.  The murder rate per head of population is about
>> 	12-fold higher in the U.S. than it is in the U.K.
>
>Last year, the same "Economist" published a chart showing
>that you were statistically safer in Northern Ireland than
>in Washington DC.
>
>But we chewed over all this a year ago.   Second Amendment
>fans have a zillion ways to explain why this kind of thing
>doesn't matter.    I certainly won't post further on the
>subject.
>
>jon.

As a right wing loon, I'll post on it:

I used to be a big second ammendment fan, but I've lost
most of my enthusiasm for it.  The liklihood of individual
citizen gun owners contributing to the regulation of the
Militia is next to nill.  On the other hand, we are being
regulated into hiding by the proliferation of hand guns
in our drug infested cities.

They say that guns don't kill people, people kill people.
But people with guns kill a lot more people than people
without 'em.  Since the government has the power anyway,
I say let's control them the way you do in Britain.

Now, what shall we do about those 18th Century marble
busts?

Gerry Palo
From: pete@minster.york.ac.uk
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Split soc.culture.british
Date: 13 Nov 92 13:06:31 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of York, England

Gwyn Evans @ IME (evansg@uproar.enet.dec.com) wrote:
[on the dissolution of s.c.b]
: 
:   What did I miss, I wonder?

You're missing the point - this is a golden opportunity to create
soc.culture.british.dave.yalladee.pillock.pillock.pillock.....

Pete
--
*Peter Fenelon -- Research Associate -- Software Safety Assessment Procedures*
Dept. of Computer Science, University of York, York, Y01 5DD (+44/0)904 433388
EMAIL: pete@minster.york.ac.uk `There's no room for enigmas in built up areas'
From: dj@ekcolor.ssd.kodak.com (Dave Jones)
Subject: Re: Accent and Dialect, the politics thereof
Organization: Vonnegut Tent Rentals, Inc.
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 92 14:14:55 GMT

Craig Cockburn (cockburn@edieng.enet.dec.com) wrote:
> 
> I read somewhere (sorry, can't remember the reference) that the English
> language changes more between Edinburgh and Newcastle than it does between
> any other two points a similar distance apart anywhere else in the world.
>
Take any direction away from Newcastle (sorry, Nyercassel) and the language
will change by an astounding amount in a surprisingly short distance.  It
just happens to be the home of one of the more extreme dialects of English.
Also, the distance to Edinburgh is about the same as to Leeds.  You could
hardly call them neighbouring cities. 

--
||Halloween Candy: the office snack    |
||from Nov. 1st onwards............... |Puff the Magic Dragon
||-------------------------------------|Lived by the sea
||Dave Jones (dj@ekcolor.ssd.kodak.com)|Who knows what's in the autumn mists
||Eastman Kodak Co. Rochester, NY      |In the mind of Yadallee?
From: ray@philmtl.philips.ca (Ray Dunn)
Subject: Re: s.c.b FAQ (was: An astonishing Guy)
Organization: Not Philips.
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 06:50:36 GMT

In refd article, sue@netcom.com (Sue Miller) writes:
>>Let's see:
>>	Coronation Charter of Henry I, 1101.
>>	Great Charter, 1215.
>>	Declaration that the Commons shall Initiate Money Bills 1407.
>>	Habeas Corpus Act, 1679.
>>	Bill of Rights, 1689.
>>	etc....  etc....
>
>And here I thought it was only in the USA that people thought
>'more is better'.

Well, why don't you post the list of amendments to the US constitution,
with their dates, and then we can come to our own conclusions....
-- 
Ray Dunn at home        |  Beaconsfield, Quebec  |  Phone: (514) 630 3749
ray@philmtl.philips.ca  |  dunn@cam.org          |  uunet!sobeco!philmtl!ray
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: hsk@microplex.com (Harjeet Kalsi)
Subject: Re: Driving on the other side
Organization: Microplex Systems Ltd.
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 20:15:38 GMT

In article <1992Oct30.070113.15092@informix.com> proberts@informix.com (Paul Roberts) writes:

>   >Countries I can think of where drivers sit on the correct,
>   >er.. I mean right hand side of the vehicle include..
>   >
>   >Japan
>   >Oz
>   >India
>   >Singapore
>   >Malaysia
>   >Thailand
>   >NZ
>
>   Also Pakistan, Nepal, Bangladesh(?), Indonesia ...
>
>... Ireland, United Kingdom ...
>--
>     	cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk   (on Janet, cc@uk.ac.ed.dcs)

		
Also Austrailia, and all of Africa.   Which makes me wonder, does anyone
know whether there are more right-hand steer vehicles in the world or 
more left-hand steer ones?



Xref: sparky soc.culture.british:15209 alt.folklore.urban:27505
From: Adrian.Waterworth@newcastle.ac.uk (Adrian Waterworth)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,alt.folklore.urban
Subject: Re: An astonishing Guy
Date: 5 Nov 92 08:45:49 GMT
Organization: University of Newcastle upon Tyne, UK, NE1 7RU

linden@positive.Eng.Sun.COM (Trelford Pinkerton) writes:

>I recently learned something astonishing (by reading a serious
>history book, a practice I commend to all) -- Guy Fawkes was not
>trying to blow up Parliament at all.   He was trying to assassinate
>the king.    I'll bet not one Englishman in 100 knows this!

	I'll bet you're probably wrong. Then again, given the current
state of education in this country and the fact that certain quarters
of the collective British intellect have fallen so low that some people
were stupid enough to be taken in by Ghostwatch last Saturday night and
subsequently phoned the Beeb to complain about it, maybe you're right.

> ...   For 12 brief glorious years England was a republic,
>from January 1 1649 to 1660.  Then the cup of liberty was dashed from
>the people's lips when the son of the old king, an even bigger dickwad
>and dilettante than his father, grabbed the throne back.
>The cup of liberty passed on to the American people, who had the
>same thirst as the British, but were more successful in satisfying it
>a century later.

> ... That's what you get when you don't have
>a Bill of Rights.

	Ah... "republic", "Bill of Rights", no doubt the much-vaunted
American magic word "Constitution" (cf "Abracadabra!" - yet another
magic word that isn't worth half as much as some people believe) will
soon follow.

	Oh Bugger. Here we go again.

	Still, might as well try to head it off...

	"Trelford Pinkerton, do you honestly think that any of us
actually _care_ about any of this?"

	Purely a request for information, I assure you.

				Ade.

		\----------------------------------------/
		 |  Adrian.Waterworth@newcastle.ac.uk	|
		/ ---------------------------------------\
From: mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Rule Britannia
Date: 5 Nov 92 15:30:06 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept, QMW, University of London, UK.

From: dk0a@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (DIMITRIOS KOUVATSOS)
>I'm surprised to hear that "everyone" complains that the UK is not a
>democratic country! Did Major roll over the tanks to Number 10 last April,
>or what? I'd suggest that, for whatever reasons, the Tories won the popular
>vote. Simple arithmetic.

As many other have pointed out, the British electoral system
can (and usually does) give a majority to a party which does not
have majority electoral support.

>"Class conflict", I see... This sort of loonie leftists are a perfect
>manifestation of the "British disease" - which ushered in a uniquely
>continuous, uniquely catastrophic decline of Britain in the last 60 to 70
>years.

If it is "loonie leftist" to blame class for many of Britain's
problems, you must classify Mrs.Thatcher and much of the
"New-Right" as "loonie leftists". A large part of their
philosophy was an attack on the "traditional establishment"
and an appeal instead to "self-made" businessmen.

If you are simply copying the USA-derived attack on the UK as a
bastion of socialism, you ought to be aware that the
Conservative Party has been in government for far more of the
last 60 to 70 years than the Labour Party.

In fact a lot of Britain's decline can be blamed precisely on
the imperialist mentality. Britain's resources and energy were
directed outwards rather than inwards. Education and prestige
was geared to providing imperial administrators rather than
technicians and engineers. Worst of all the attitude that
"we're the best" became so ground in that Britain refused to
adapt, learn from other nations and react when decline set in
and we were slipping from "the best". Britain went on saying
"we're the best, we're the top, we really believe in what our
nation stands for" for long after it had started to look
rather ridiculous and become just wrong (recognise anything
here, Yanks?).

>> What the hell are you Brits ashamed of?
>Well, we had a bad start. Once we had stopped stealing the wealth of other
>countries like the Victorians use to do, we found life a bit harder.

I suspect the self-deprecation is something of a reaction to
the ridiculousness of late imperial pretensions, though I agree
with you that it sometimes goes over the top - it is most
certainly wrong, for example, to see the British Empire purely
in terms of "stealing wealth".

Matthew Huntbach
From: smckinty@sunicnc.France.Sun.COM (Steve McKinty - Sun ICNC)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,uk.politics
Subject: Re: Tory succession (was Re: The Maastricht vote)
Date: 10 Nov 1992 09:00:34 GMT
Organization: SunConnect
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: hardy.france.sun.com

In article <1992Nov9.122955.13299@infodev.cam.ac.uk>, rf@cl.cam.ac.uk (Robin Fairbairns) writes:
> In article <1992Nov9.113341.11242@infodev.cam.ac.uk>, gdb15@grebe.cl.cam.ac.uk (Guy Barry) writes:
> |> >If
> |> >Major had resigned, the likelihood is that an even worse Tory
> |> >would have been put in his place.
> |> 
> |> I doubt it.  Who?  There's no obvious right-wing candidate.
> |> We'd probably have had Kenneth Clarke.  I don't exactly warm
> |> to him personally, but I don't think he'd be any worse than
> |> Major as PM.

There was a poll in one of the papers last week which offered people a
choice of half-a-dozen top Tories for that post should John Major go.
Maggie came in 2nd place, just behind "none of the above"...


Steve

-- 
Steve McKinty
SUN Microsystems ICNC
38240 Meylan, France
email: smckinty@france.sun.com	   BIX: smckinty
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: chrisc@biggus.moron.vware.mn.org (Chris Cox  W0/G4JEC)
Subject: Re: Dustman (was Re: Lyrics etc.)
Organization: Twin Cities Metro Area Network, Minneapolis, MN
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 92 03:50:39 GMT

ajw@aus.intel.com (alan waldock) writes:
> "'E looks a proper 'nana..."
> 
> My question -- whence "'nana"?  Presumably a contraction of banana,
> but why?  I've known the word for ever, but only just fallen to wondering
> about its deriviation.  Any guesses?
> 
Totally unrelated, but seeing the word always brings to mind the old Benny 
Hill skit, where he is a teacher, and the best response to his request to
name three fruits that begin with the letter N was:-

	A napple
	A norange
	and a nana...

Then of course there's Hot Gossamer!  Whatever happened to them?  Did they
get signed up by Kenny Everett?
-- 
73  Chris Cox  W0/G4JEC
chrisc@biggus.g4jec.tcman.ampr.org     chrisc@biggus.moron.vware.mn.org
 Eleventh Hour Contest Group - North American Chapter; Minneapolis, MN
   Twin Cities Metro Area Network node (biggus.g4jec.tcman.ampr.org)
From: A.Grant@ucs.cam.ac.uk (Alasdair Grant)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Accent and Dialect, the politics there
Date: 5 Nov 92 20:38:39 GMT
Organization: University of Cambridge

In article <1992Nov5.130526.29965@gssec.bt.co.uk> cwilson@gssec.bt.co.uk (Colin Wilson) writes:
>in which the use of Scots is almost totally confined to comedy. If I
>ever have children, I would like them to be educated to be articulate
>and literate in their own language, and to know its literature - some
>of which is internationally respected

Please give examples.  Scott, Smollett, Adam Smith?  Burns is well-known,
but hardly 'respected'.  Of course, there is workmanlike stuff in Scots and
even Gaelic, but most of it turns out to have been written by English 
speakers who took up a new language as a hobby.  (Or a political statement,
c.f. Irish.)  Some even changed their names to try and become more Scottish
(Christopher Grieve).  How can anyone respect a tradition based on nostalgia
and misrepresentation?
--
Alasdair Grant
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: urkastig@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Robert Kastigar)
Subject: Looking for someone special. . .
Organization: Educational Computing Network
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 03:20:43 GMT

Hello.  I'm looking for someone within some unusual
qualifications from anywhere in England, or elsewhere.  If you
know of anyone like this, please pass this along to them.

     1. A member of a labor union.
     2. A computer hobbyist
     3. Active in modem communications
     4. Access to this Internet
     5. Uses, knows, or runs a dial-up Bulletin Board
     6. Is familiar with QWK mail packets
     7. would like to "echo" main from a US labor network.
     8. Willing to fiddle around a little to make something work

Here's the story:  I'm a member of the International Brotherhood
of Electrical Workers.  Our local union runs a dial-in "Bulletin
Board" in the Chicago, Illinois area.   So do several other local
unions in the United States.  Recently about seven of us have
formed an "echo net."  We post all mail in a conference called
LaborChat by calling our central hub once a week or so.  

This is done in the dial-in community by messages "packages" -
compressed files of messages going out, and another "package" of
messages coming in.  Each Bulletin Board eventually has all the
same messages.  It's the same principle as the Internet's
unmoderated newsgroups.

If a Bulletin Board can be found that is interested in carrying
this group of union people's posts, we can exchange this packages
across the ocean as files by means of the Internet, by attaching
the files to messages in e-mail.  Then all you need to do is send
this file to your local dial-in Bulletin Board, with only a local
call. 

Qmail, MailMan, and Tomcat are a few of the DOS-based methods
that a Bulletin Board uses to 'toss' these mail packages.  A
Bulletin Board must have a similar program to participate in
this.  

If you're interested, please send email to:
   urkastig@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu
or snail-mail us at

IBEW Local 1220
9501 W. Devon Avenue
Rosemont, IL 60018 U.S.A.



Bob Kastigar
System Operator, the IBEW Local 1220 BBS

From: ssouth@hpldsla.sid.hp.com (Steve South)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1992 23:00:27 GMT
Subject: Re: Driving on the other side (was Re: Salaries+cost of living in UK)
Organization: HP Scientific Instruments Division - Palo Alto, CA
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british

/ hpldsla:soc.culture.british / pjd@unislc.uucp (Priscilla Davidson) /  2:00 pm  Oct 29, 1992 /

Uh, hold on a minute.  Americans "all" have this "blind admiration and
praise" for the Prez?   Gee, I guess I'm the **only** American of voting
age who will be casting a vote for Clinton instead of the lying scumbag.


Hmmmm. I have found it hard not to get the "blind admiration" impression too.
Clearly "all" is wrong, but the extent of unthinking patriotism is
frightening to a Brit like me.

Steve South.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british