HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: baron@cattell.psych.upenn.edu (Jonathan Baron)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.biosph-l
Subject: Re: power lines -- book data
Date: 21 Jul 92 14:43:05 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

Science Magazine also had a series of articles about the
possibility of an EMF-cancer connection in 1990: Vol. 249, pp.
1096 ff., 1378 ff., and Vol. 250, pp. 23 ff.  I found these
articles excellent, although they might be out of date by now.
(The gist, as I recall, was that the best guess was that there
was nothing to worry about, but there were some puzzling results
that needed to be explored further.)

I believe that this is also one of the issues discussed in a
forthcoming book by Peter Huber (and a co-author, Ken Foster?) on
the general topic of "phantom risks."

Jon Baron


Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
From: deliavilla@gn.apc.org
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.biosph-l
Subject: Re: biodiversity workshop
Date: 23 Jul 92 10:01:00 GMT
Nf-ID: #R:BIOSPH-L%92062907554446@ubvm.cc.:-1680632808:gn:1223700002:000:168
Nf-From: gn.UUCP!deliavilla    Jul 23 11:01:00 1992


As a GreenNet user, can I also access the above mentioned bitnet address?
If not, how could I listen in on the workshop?

Thanks for responding,

best regards,

Delia.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.biosph-l
Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1992 11:46:57 EDT
Reply-To:     altman@AMETHYST.BUCKNELL.EDU
From:         altman@AMETHYST.BUCKNELL.EDU
Subject:      Hidden Costs/Ceaucescu
X-To:         biosph-l@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu

Jeremy writes:
>Electricity is not a luxury

Electricity, to anyone who doesn't have it or has very little of it, is an
expensive
luxury.  By world standards, those without electricity outnumber those with
it.
It is the general over use of electricity by the industrialized world that
makes us
look at it as a necessity.

Jeremy also writes:
>I would say that having to reduce province-wide supply voltage to save power is
 a pretty
>good arguement for a new supply -- nuclear or otherwise.

This is not a good arguement.  It is always the answer of the industrialist
to build more if more
is needed.  One day the earth will not be able to accomidate all that we
build.  Expensive
conservation is better than a dead planet.

Electrical Power Use:
1 American (Canadians should be close) = 55 Indians = 900 Nepalese
It is time for the biggest users to cut back on their use as an example for
devoloping nations.
If all countries aspire to use as much power as devoloped nations we will
all die along with
the planet.  The planet doesn't have the resources to support our greed.

-------------------------
Alec Altman                                           e-mail
altman@amethyst. bucknell.edu
Box C-1408 Bucknell University
Lewisburg Pa. 17837
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Organization: Universidade Federal de Santa Catarina/BRASIL
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.biosph-l
Date:         Thu, 30 Jul 1992 12:51:19 BSC
Reply-To:     SANDRO HANSEN <92140211@BRUFSC.BITNET>
From:         SANDRO HANSEN <92140211@BRUFSC.BITNET>
Subject:      Hello to all

TO ALL INVOLVED
      I am a student from engeneering in Brazil. In my area of studies,
the enviroment is very important, like in the other areas. I would like
to know what the world is thinkink about this matter.
      I have a lot of ideas that can't be written in one first contact
letter. If you are interested, please write me. I will do the possible
to answer and to understand your ideas to.
                      CONGRATULATIONS !!!
                              YOUR BIOSPH-L FRIEND     SANDRO HANSEN
------------------------------------------------------------------------
SANDRO HANSEN
92140211@BRUFSC
BRAZIL - SANTA CATARINA - FLORIANOPOLIS
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Apparently-To: BIOSPH-L@ubvm.bitnet
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.biosph-l
Date:         Tue, 28 Jul 1992 17:31:43 PDT
Reply-To:     Lelani Arris <larris@IGC.APC.ORG>
From:         Lelani Arris <larris@IGC.APC.ORG>
Subject:      ECIX Newsletter & Climate Digest

                  **** ECIX CLIMATE DIGEST ****
                **** ECIX PROJECT NEWSLETTER ****

Now available: Issue #9 of the ECIX Climate Digest and Issue #10
of the ECIX Project Newsletter (July, 1992).

The ECIX Newsletter features excerpts from a report on the Earth
Summit written by Lee Schipper.  We also have our usual lineup of
EcoNet conference highlights and upcoming events.

The Climate Digest includes a summary of the Atmosphere Chapter
of Agenda 21, information about Canada's UV Advisory Program, a
discussion of reduced ozone levels over Canada, and a summary of
Australia's Draft National Greenhouse Response Strategy.

Both newsletters are available via anonymous ftp from IGC.ORG
(192.82.108.1), subdirectory /pub/ECIX.  If you choose to get the
newsletters this way, please send email to me at the address
below, as it is important for continued funding that I be able to
document readership of the publication.

To obtain either the climate digest (59K) or the newsletter (44K),
via email, write:

******************************************************************
Lelani Arris                            * Project Director
EcoNet:    larris                       * EcoNet Energy & Climate
Internet/Fidonet:  larris@igc.apc.org   * Information Exchange
BITNET:    larris%igc.org@stanford      * Box 1061
Telephone: 403-852-4057                 * Jasper, Alberta T0E 1E0
Fax:       403-852-5173                 * Canada
******************************************************************
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.biosph-l
Date:         Mon, 20 Jul 1992 23:36:00 CDT
Reply-To:     John Naples <A01JRN1@NIU.BITNET>
From:         John Naples <A01JRN1@NIU.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: High voltage transmision lines and human health
X-To:         "Samuel F. F. Davila" <sdavila@HP9K.LAG.ITESM.MX>

>I would like to know the effects of living near high voltage electric
>transmission lines may have on human health.

There was a series of articles in "The New Yorker" magazine followed
by a book by Paul Brodeur, all published within the last year or so.
Brodeur is an investigative reporter, so he is not scientifically
neutral in what he says, but there are sources given so you could
follow up on your own.  The subject has been little studied, so the
facts are skimpy and diffuse.

John Naples
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Date:         Wed, 29 Jul 1992 17:14:03 -0700
Reply-To:     "Russell M. Forster" <RFORSTER@VENUS.GOV.BC.CA>
From:         "Russell M. Forster" <RFORSTER@VENUS.GOV.BC.CA>
Subject:      Previous Note(s)!!
X-To:         biosph-l@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu

To all involved,

	Please dis-regard my previous note(s)! I am testing addresses for
	a new gateway and a test note got away from me.  There is no
	message body and the subject was garbled.  Please ignore the note
	and accept my apologies that it got out in the first place.

	/Russ
-----
Russ Forster (postmaster)			B.C. Systems Corporation
Senior Systems Analyst				4000 Seymour Place
						Victoria, B.C. V8X 4S8
RForster@GALAXY.GOV.BC.CA			(604) 389-3186
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X-VMS-To: IN%"biosph-l@ubvm.bitnet"
X-VMS-Cc: MDUGAN
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.biosph-l
Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 1992 19:52:00 PDT
Reply-To:     Marianne Dugan <MDUGAN@OREGON.BITNET>
From:         Marianne Dugan <MDUGAN@OREGON.BITNET>
Subject:      hidden costs

>Electricity is not a luxury

Maybe not, but cheap, earth-raping electricity IS a luxury.  A
luxury we can't afford any more.

>been saying on this list for a long time now.  You can't compute the cost of
>conservation just by adding up the cost of, for example, replacment
>energy-efficient bulbs.  You must also add in the cost of the campaign to
>convince the user to buy those bulbs.

Ah, yes, hidden costs.  You can't compute the cost of ELECTRICITY
without adding in the cost of cleaning up the unholy mess
electricity production creates.  Bonneville Power Admin. recently
added in part of the true cost of hydropower production by
proposing to raise prices to cover some of the cost of trying to
save some of the fish they kill.  People are furious!  On the
other hand, fisherpeople and tourist industry-reliant folks are
even more furious that NMFS this year severely cut back salmon
fishing, due to the piteously low levels of fish stocks, and the
listing of several salmon stocks on the endangered species list.

Let's try to adopt more of a pay-as-you-go attitude to the hidden
costs of energy production.


----------------------------------------------------------------
Marianne Dugan  mdugan@oregon.uoregon.edu
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.biosph-l
Date:         Thu, 23 Jul 1992 16:38:47 EDT
Reply-To:     Tom Keays <HTKEAYS@SUVM.BITNET>
From:         Tom Keays <HTKEAYS@SUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: High voltage transmission lines and human health

Robert Hoge wrote:
 >
 >The effects are either serious or nil, depending on whose lobby you
 >prefer to believe.  Here's a selection of sources that indicate the
 >former:
 >
 >1. A draft EPA report, title unknown, coauthored by Dr. Robert McGauthy,
 >   mentioned in The Australian of Jan 22, 1991.
 >
 >2. The Economist, Sept 1, 1990, p. 87, title of article unknown.
 >
 >3. Electronics World + Wireless World, Feb 1990, p. 96 ff.  Comprehensive
 >   article titled "The Killing Fields - the Epidemiological Evidence".
 >   Follow-up article on microwave fields in March issue, p. 208 ff.
 >
 >4. A 1989 epidemiological study by researchers from the Johns Hopkins
 >   University, title unknown.

--------------------------

Jonathan Baron wrote:
 >
 >Science Magazine also had a series of articles about the
 >possibility of an EMF-cancer connection in 1990: Vol. 249, pp.
 >1096 ff., 1378 ff., and Vol. 250, pp. 23 ff.  I found these
 >articles excellent, although they might be out of date by now.
 >(The gist, as I recall, was that the best guess was that there
 >was nothing to worry about, but there were some puzzling results
 >that needed to be explored further.)
 >
 >I believe that this is also one of the issues discussed in a
 >forthcoming book by Peter Huber (and a co-author, Ken Foster?) on
 >the general topic of "phantom risks."
 >
 >Jon Baron

--------------------------------

Both people are citing older references that state that the evidence
is scanty or uncertain.  Scientists seem to be taking a more firm
stance recently and stating that there is now clear evidence linking
EMF to serious health risks.

Hester, Gordon L.  "Electric and Magnetic Fields: Managing an
Uncertain
 Risk."  Environment v.34, no. 1, pp. 6-11. (Jan/Feb. 1992)

Philips, Alasdair.  "Power Politics: Playing with Children's Lives?"
 Electronics World + Wireless World, v.97, no.1673, pp. 277-280
 (April 1992)

Philips, Alasdair.  "Measuring Magnetic Fields in Your Own Home."
 Electronics World + Wireless World, v.97, no.1673, pp. 281-283
 (April 1992)

These were cover articles.  If I come across any more, I
can post the citations.

 -- Tom Keays   Bitnet:   HTKEAYS@SUVM.BITNET
                Internet: HTKEAYS@SUVM.ACS.SYR.EDU
                EcoNet:   HTKEAYS@IGC.ORG
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.biosph-l
Date:         Fri, 24 Jul 1992 15:15:41 EDT
Reply-To:     "Carolyn Argentati" <CDADHHL@NCSUVM.BITNET>
From:         "Carolyn Argentati" <CDADHHL@NCSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      CONFERENCE ANNOUNCEMENT
X-To:         AGRIC-L <agric-l@uga.BITNET>,
              envst-l@brownvm.BITNET, davep@acsu.buffalo.edu,
              biosph-l@ubvm.BITNET

Announcing a Conference on...

            IMPOUNDED RIVERS:  DEVELOPMENT AND MANAGEMENT
                        March 28-30, 1993
                       Woodlawn Holiday Inn
                     Charlotte, North Carolina

Sponsored by the College of Forest Resources, North Carolina State University,
this conference has been planned to explore the management of the impoundment
ecosystem, and develop an understanding of the multiple frameworks that will
have to be created to improve our response to river management problems.
Topics include:      - Expansion of Dams
                     - Investigations of Impounded Rivers
                     - Catchment Ecosystem
                     - Hydrology of Dammed Rivers
                     - Reservoir Releases
                     - Vegetation Responses
                     - Development and Recreation Opportunities
A Pre-Conference Field Trip to two North Carolina impoundment areas will
take place on Sunday, March 28.

Program Chairs are Dr. Russ Lea, Associate Dean for Research, College of
Forest Resources, NCSU, and Dr. Wilson Laney, Assistant Coordinator,
South Atlantic Fisheries Coordination Office, U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service.

For additional information, please contact:
        Ann Coughlin
        Educational Outreach Office
        College of Forest Resources
        North Carolina State University
        Box 8001
        Raleigh, NC 27695-8001           Telephone: (919) 515-3184
************************************************************************
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X-Envelope-to: biosph-l@ubvm.bitnet
X-VMS-To: IN%"biosph-l@ubvm.bitnet"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.biosph-l
Date:         Fri, 24 Jul 1992 21:17:00 PDT
Reply-To:     Marianne Dugan <MDUGAN@OREGON.BITNET>
From:         Marianne Dugan <MDUGAN@OREGON.BITNET>
Subject:      (sic0

"(sic)" means -- there's an error in the original quote, it's not
the quoter's error.  Like "Mary had a little lam (sic)."



----------------------------------------------------------------
Marianne Dugan  mdugan@oregon.uoregon.edu
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-VMS-To: SAIT$INET::"biosph-l@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu"
Note: Mail transport via Digital Equipment of Canada Ltd. Calgary gateway.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.biosph-l
Date:         Thu, 23 Jul 1992 08:03:00 MST
Reply-To:     JALOVE@ADMN.SAIT.AB.CA
From:         JALOVE@ADMN.SAIT.AB.CA
Subject:      CDN NEWS: Correction
X-To:         biosph-l@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu

SACRED MOUNTAIN CORRECTION

Peviously I said:
>>Land slides at a mountain west of Calgary, sacred to Alberta Natives, have
>>been a cause of concern to Local Native spiritual leaders.

The mountain that the slide occured was Big Chief in Montana, when a radio
broadcast said that local blackfoot leaders where upset about slides on
a sacred mountain, I assumed it was the sacred mountain west of Calgary.

I saw the rock slide devstation on TV, the slide was kilometres in length,
cutting a swath in the forest.

James (Jim) Arthur Love, B.Comm
Calgary, Alberta, *CANADA*

E-mail: JALOVE@ADMN.SAIT.AB.CA
Voice : (403)-282-3020
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.biosph-l
Date:         Mon, 27 Jul 1992 11:27:52 EDT
Reply-To:     INELM@TRBOUN.BITNET
From:         INELM@TRBOUN.BITNET
Subject:      environmental conference

...................................................................
                THE NINTH TURKISH-GERMAN-POLISH


               ENVIRONMENTAL ENGINEERING SYMPOSIUM


..................................................................

OCTOBER 5-7, 1992

ISTANBUL

BOGAZICI UNIVERSITY

FACULTY OF ENGINEERING
AND
INSTITUTE OF ENVIRONMENTAL SCIENCES


with the cooperation of

Stuttgart University
and
Polskie Zrzeszenie Inzynierowi Technikow Sanitarnych

------------------------------------------------------


Subjects :


1. Hazardous Waste Management and Treatment
2. Wastewater Technology and Applications
3. Water Pollution Control
4. Solid Waste Management


Correspondance :

Att. Prof Dr. Kriton Curi
Bogazici University
80815 Bebek Istanbul TURKEY

tel (90) (1) 263 15 00
fax (90) (1) 264 85 88
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.biosph-l
Date:         Fri, 24 Jul 1992 11:27:55 EDT
Reply-To:     Robert Kirkman <RKIRKMAN@CCVM.SUNYSB.EDU>
From:         Robert Kirkman <RKIRKMAN@CCVM.SUNYSB.EDU>
Subject:      capitalism/environment

In reply to David Treston:

     I'm not sure how you would go about to "prove" a negative correlation,
or how useful a correlation would be by itself.  There is a slightly
different approach, outside of economics, that might be helpful in showing
that capitalism _by definition_ is harmful to the environment.
     In the history of philosophy, especially in the twentieth century,
there have been many critiques of the capitalist system.  Many of these are
by marxists or neo-marxists or post-neo-marxists, but that does not mean
they don't have a point.
     Consider the critical theory of the Frankfurt School (Adorno and
Horkheimer's _Dialectic of Enlightenment_ is a tangled and frustrating book,
but perhaps along lines you could explore), including the more recent work
of Jurgen Habermas.  A lot of this work bears a similarity to Max Weber's
work on bureaucracy.  A less technical work along the lines of Weber is
the study by Bellah et al called _Habits of the Heart: Individualism and
Commitment in American Life_ (not directly relevant to the environment,
but there is a common theme)
     The common theme is CONTROL.  Pure, instrumental reason is applied to
the processes of production and, ultimately, to all aspects of human life.
As a result, everything us subjugated to the demands of EFFICIENCY.  No other
standards count for anything.  Degradation of the environment is an "external"
cost.  There's no column for it in the ledgers of capitalism.  (I'm glossing
over a lot, mashing several of these thinkers together, in the interests of
giving you the basic gist of the critique.)
     Adorno and Horkheimer adress the problem of the control of "Nature" more
or less directly, but they are incredibly gloomy because they see no way to
break the grasp of instrumental rationality.  Bellah et al do not adress the
problem directly, but see some hope in the revival of communities and the idea
that each of us have commitments beyond those of production and efficiency.
I'm not sure what Habermas is up to these days, but one of my colleagues is
using some of Habermas' critiques in defense of the environment.
      All of this assumes that instrumental reason, and the demands for
"efficiency" lie at the root of capitalism.  (Not too outrageouse, as
assumptions go.)  Another good book to look at - and much more readable than
any of the Frankfurt School folk - is David Ehrenfeld's _The Arrogance of
Humanism_.  Some of the basic tenets of our humanistic culture are laid bare,
and their destructive effects (actual and potential) are discussed in some
detail.

I hope this has been helpful.

Robert Kirkman
Department of Philosophy
SUNY at Stony Brook
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X-Acknowledge-To: <Y3111DAA@AWIUNI11.EDVZ.UNIVIE.AC.AT>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.biosph-l
Date:         Tue, 28 Jul 1992 09:07:52 MEZ
Reply-To:     Y3111DAA@AWIUNI11.EDVZ.UNIVIE.AC.AT
From:         Y3111DAA@AWIUNI11.EDVZ.UNIVIE.AC.AT
Subject:      Study Programs
X-To:         envst-l@brownvm.BITNET, biosph-l@ubvm.BITNET,
              envbeh-l@polygraf.BITNET, aquifer@ibacsata.BITNET,
              uncedgen@ufrj.BITNET

Dear fellow subscribers:

I need to find some material on undergraduate and graduate
programs in biology, with emphasis on ecological / environmental
curricula.  Can anyone recommend some?  E-mail or conventional
addresses appreciated.

Thanks for your help.  Hope everyone is enjoying their summer.

Sincerely,

Doug Kahn
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X-Envelope-to: biosph-l@ubvm.bitnet
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Date:         Fri, 24 Jul 1992 09:12:00 PDT
Reply-To:     Marianne Dugan <MDUGAN@OREGON.BITNET>
From:         Marianne Dugan <MDUGAN@OREGON.BITNET>
Subject:      capitalism/environment

>      All of this assumes that instrumental reason, and the demands for
>"efficiency" lie at the root of capitalism.  (Not too outrageouse, as
>assumptions go.)
>Robert Kirkman
>Department of Philosophy
>SUNY at Stony Brook

Another thing about capitalism re: the environment:  Capitalism
is based on the concept of "more."  There must always be "more"
for capitalism to "work."  It's a pyramid scheme.  That's why the
GNP always must go up, or we're "in trouble."  That's why more
cars must be sold, more houses built every year.  Because if
every cog in the scheme -- every capitalist -- does not see a "
profit" at the end of each quarter, capitalism is not working.

That basis for capitalism is totally antithetical to the way the
universe works.  This is a closed system (see Odum re:  energy
flows) and "more" is a problem.  It is fine if, say a couple of
trees eventually become a grove of trees, because there is no net
increase; there's trading of energy input and output.  Exceptions
happen on literally glacial timeframes -- ice ages and warm
periods -- and they create major, major changes in the
environment!  On our human, day-to-day, life form level, "more"
means cancer.  When our cells see a "profit" each quarter, unless
we're under the age of 20 or so, something is out of whack and we
see a doctor.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Marianne Dugan  mdugan@oregon.uoregon.edu
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.biosph-l
Date:         Tue, 28 Jul 1992 03:05:03 GMT
Reply-To:     CWS@OVRO.OVRO.CALTECH.EDU
From:         CWS@OVRO.OVRO.CALTECH.EDU
Subject:      help request
X-To:         BIOSPH-L@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU

Folks,
   It's been fun here on the list, but I've got to sign off.  I'm no longer
employed by Caltech and I'm returning to school to persue soils/edaphic
studies.  Consequently I need to sign off of this list and I need a bit of
help doing it.

Since my return address has changed since I signed on, the listserv doesn't
recognize me as a subscriber, and my address for Dave Phillips doesn't work.
Can someone tell me how to forge a return address, or tell me Dave's
new address?

Thanks in advance,

cur
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Organisation: Dept.Phys,Univ.Oldenburg,Germany
Phone:              +49-441-798-3212
Fax:                +49-441-798-3201
Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.25]
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.biosph-l
Date:         Fri, 24 Jul 1992 11:02:56 MESZ
Reply-To:     Konrad Blum <u013352@HRZ.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE>
From:         Konrad Blum <u013352@HRZ.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE>
Subject:      Re: electric power
X-To:         altman@AMETHYST.BUCKNELL.EDU
              "altman@AMETHYST.BUCKNELL.EDU" at Jul 23, 92 2:52 pm

iRegarding economy and energy, one would perhaps see that even at the
moment not a "free" economy is governing the choice of consumers
and "retailers" of energy services to that extend as implicitly
assumed in a "market economy": you cannot switch to another grid,
when the one you a connected to increases prices etc.

But to the point: in a true market situation the price of a product
or service should contain ALL costs (ecological social polictial...).
This is not an easy goal - and possibly will not be achieved without
national and international  regulations.

Furthermore: what are the long term social and ecological costs for
e.g. nuclear compared to renewables? I am cooperating with economists
(in teaching RE), but they are only at the beginning of cost assesment
for social and ecological aspects of energy systems.

Resume: Interdisciplinary reserach is necessary to answer many
questions in this field - also strategies are not someting what could
be decided from emotional debates...
The future of the ecosystem is to important to make it a subject for
rattles and e-mail flaming.

Sorry..

-KB
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