HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Michael F. Kamprath <kamprath@space-grant.sprl.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: White Men in Ties Discussing Missile Size
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 17:34:00 EST
Organization: University of Michigan, Aerospace Engineering
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d12
X-Xxmessage-Id: <A7527676A303C4FC@sprl-mac2016.sprl.umich.edu>
X-Xxdate: Mon, 14 Dec 92 23:35:50 GMT

In article <1992Dec6.184503.23835@gn.ecn.purdue.edu> Michael J. Carpenter,
mjcarpen@gn.ecn.purdue.edu writes:
>        Air Force magazine's advertisements for new weapons, for
>example, rival Playboy as a catalog of men's sexual anxieties and
>fantasies.  Consider the following from the June 1985 issue:
>Emblazoned in bold letters across the top of a two page
>advertisement for the AV-8B Harrier II-"Speak Softly and Carry a
>Big Stick."  The copy below boasts "an exceptional thrust to weight
>ratio," and "vectored thrust capability that makes the . . . unique
>rapid response possible."  And then, just in case we've failed to get
>the message, the last line reminds us, "Just the sort of 'Big Stick'
>Teddy Roosevelt had in mind way back in 1901."

Ha ha. Pretty cute.  In all the years I've subscribed to Air Force magazine
(which, BTW, isn't affiliated "officially" with the US Air Force), I've never
seen a female depicted sexually in an add.  But, I must admit to seeing plenty
of powerful machines :-).  

Anyways, for those who don't know better:

"Speak softly and carry a big stick." -- Teddy Roosevelts' summary of his foreign
policy.  I really don't think anything sexual was ever intended here.  But every
one can see what they want.

"Thrust to weight ratio"  -- Exactly as it reads.  If you don't know, "thrust"
is a measurement of the accelerating force of the engine, and "weight" is the
weight of the airplane.

"Vectored thrust" -- the ability change the direction of the thrust without
reorientatinf the airplane.

"rapid response"  -- with vectored thrust, an aircraft can turn quicker, thus
be able to shoot the enemy quicker.

Hey, now that I think about it, it is pretty sexual.  Hmmm, no wonder fighter
pilots say they get hard ons when they fly their "big machines."

:-)  

======================================================================
|Michael F. Kamprath                   | The University of Michigan  |
|  kamprath@space-grant.sprl.umich.edu |      Aerospace Engineering  |
|  kamprath@engin.umich.edu            |      Graduate Student       |
======================================================================
From: patm@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Pat Murphy)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 18:36:26 GMT
Subject: Re: Jim Crow, history lesson for Mr. Collins and others
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american

In soc.culture.african.american, <KRB104@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
> Chad Collins seems to think that Jim Crow is only about election laws.  Yes,
> Jim had election laws such as literacy tests and grandfather clauses.  As far
> as literacy tests, yes, all people had to take them, but the words for Blacks
> and whites were totally different.  In other words, the tests weren't like the
> SAT where everyone is given similar tests.  Grandfather clauses were that you
> couldn't vote unless your grandfather was able to vote.  How many Blacks had
> grandfather's who voted during Jim Crow?  Not many!

	there's a good book just out that deals with this to
	some extent the title of which has slipped my mind at
	the moment... i wanna say it was written by _____ Clay
	and the subtitle is *Blacks in Congress 1865-1991*
	i just ordered it from my local bookstore and i under-
	stand it has loads of jim crow examples among other things

	(will post real title when i come across it...)


peace,
pjm.


Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: lashlepi@newton.ccs.tuns.ca (Phillip Lashley)
Subject: Re: What's wrong w/ Our Skin Color?
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 13:50:42 GMT
Organization: Technical University of Nova Scotia, Halifax, N.S.

In article <1992Dec14.200229.1@wharton.upenn.edu> wrightb@wharton.upenn.edu writes:
>Fred,
>
>I've also encountered the same thing, but unlike Greg I just stopped offering
>to help. I figure they'll workit out for themselves what ever the situation
>might be. I've even encountered this with some SISTERS and that was surprising
>to me at first. Then I realized it wasn't just because of my skin color, it
>was my skin color, age, gender and appearance at least that's what one Sister
>told me. She said because I was wearing jeans, sneakers, black sweatshirt and
>a baseball style cap I looked like a hood and she didn't think I was to be
>trusted. I sometimes get the same reaction from cab drivers, unless I'm with
>my wife. Brothers are getting a bad rap because of a few knuckle heads out
>there. So don't take it too personal. It's probably happened to all of us
>at some time or another.
>
>
>STORM
Yup. I came to the same conclusion: save my time and energy for the people who at least if not appreciating it, may be receptive to it.
As my S.O put it " why am i going out of my way for these people?"
when i first got to canada, late last year, the folks in my apt. building would get off of the elevator and RUN to their doors,and then SLAM. People have seen de i waiting for the elevator and taken the stairs!!! Goahead please.
There is better yet. A guy (white) was killed on my floor, by, so it was said, some friends of his, (also white):enter a black man with dreadlocks on the floor:
I'm still smiling at the effect i had on people. Say BOO, the old ladies, (and Young men) jumped and ran. Even after they found out who had killed the guy.
De i? well i try not to let these things bother me, and carry on with whats to be done. I take your point about knuckle heads, but i suppose if you have only been taught one pattern of behavior, you have to follow it. We start by showing those same knuckle heads other modes of thought.
Phil

********************************************************************************* why dont you dog those who should be dogged, and stop doging me? -female-    * 
*lashlepi@newton.tuns.ccs.ca                                                   *
*Fax: (902)-420-7858                                                           *
*    Look, anything i say, i am responsible for thinking and writing, not      *
*                   withstanding divine intervention                           *********************************************************************************
From: M.Titahmboh@lut.ac.uk (Mana TitahMboh)
Subject: Re: Mweene
Organization: Loughborough University
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 11:59:44 GMT

In article <5442.117.uupcb@travel.com>, carl.camurca@travel.com (Carl Camurca)
writes:
|> [irrelevant stuff deleted]
|> 
|> TS>However, the original post was talking about cultural islands, so that
|> TS>fact that you blew the geography question is irrelevant, as are you.
|> 
|> Tim (digitus monendus erectus), Paul Mweene is NOT irrelevant! He is a
|> human being, and deserves respect as such. However, I'll beat the hell
|> out of him, 'til his moral improves. But he is still a human being as
|> you and I, however with the "wrong" opinions.
|> 
|> greetinx, Carl.
|> 
|>  * OLX 2.1 TD * Two most common elements: Hydrogen and Stupidity
|>                                                                              
|> 
"wrong" opinions? I sincerely hope you meant to say "different" opinions. as for
Mweene's morals (sounds nice doesn't it?), it is all a matter of taste. I am
always sure what sort of opinions he {Mweene} is going to express in his posts.
Reliability. That's the key.
Mana
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: tzs@stein.u.washington.edu (Tim Smith)
Subject: Re: Emitt Tills : Question
Organization: University of Washington School of Law, Class of '95
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 09:00:07 GMT

hahn@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (David James Hahn) writes:
>I was wondering if someone could help me out with a question.....
>I have an exam coming up (Wed.6:30pm), and was told that some questions
>would be asked about Emitt Tills (he didn't spell it, so this may be
>incorrect).  He said to know who he was, and the events leading up to
>his death.  I've looked in numerous African American history books, and
>can't even find the name mentioned.  So, if someone could PLEASE PLEASE 
>help me with a short quick little summary, I'd be most thankfull!!

Here's a summary, as written by Bob Dylan, in "The Death of Emmett Till."
I don't know what album, if any, this is on (I learned the song from
a songbook):

	'Twas down in Mississippi not so long ago,
	When a young boy from Chicago town stepped through a Southern door.
	This boy's dreadful tragedy I can still remember well,
	The color of his skin was black and his name was Emmett Till.

	Some men they dragged him to a barn and there they beat him up,
	They said they had a reason, but I can't remember what.
	They tortured him and did some things too evil to repeat;
	There were screaming sounds inside the barn, there was
		laughing sounds out on the street.

	Then they rolled his body down a gulf amidst a bloody red rain
	And they threw him in the waters wide to cease his screaming pain.
	The reason that they killed him there and I'm sure it ain't no lie
	Was just for the fun of killing him and to watch him slowly die.

	And then to stop the United States of yelling for a trial
	Two brothers they confessed that they had killed poor Emmett Till.
	But on the jury there were med who helped the brothers commit
		this awful crime
	And so this trial was a mockery, but nobody seemed to mind.

	I saw the morning papers but I could not bear to see
	The smiling brothers walkin' down the courthouse stairs.
	For the jury found them innocent and the brothers they went free
	While Emmett's body floats the foam of a Jim Crow Southern sea.

	If you can't speak out against this kind of thing, a crime
		that's so unjust
	Your eyes are filled with dead men's dirt, your mind is
		filled with dust.
	You arms and legs they must be in shackles and chains, and
		your blood it must refuse to flow
	For you to let this human race fall down so God-awful low!

	This song is just a reminder to remind your fellow man
	That this kind of thing still lives today in
		that ghost-robed Klu Klux Klan.
	But if all of us folks that thinks alike, if we give all we could give
	We could make this great land of ours a greater place to live.
From: q2tj@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Shelby Steele is good for one thing...
Date: 17 Dec 92 15:27:03 EST
Distribution: soc
Organization: Cornell University

From some posts I think there is seems to be a big tendency
to blow Shelby Steele off.  I read "Contents of Our Characters"
and want to put in my $0.02

	Shelby Steele doesn't have many (or perhaps any)
answers, but he is good (at the very least for one thing):

	His remarks on 'white liberals'  (yucko, ..i know what you mean)
	are surprisingly accurate.  Now, maybe you *don't* want 
	to understand white liberals (like college student types)
	but if you are inclined, I think that Shelby Steele is
	strangly on the mark on this subject.  check it out!

	ps: I don't think he's trying to let anyone off the hooks
	(like whites) and I don't think he's trying to blame
	anyone either.  Lord knows that finding blame is the
	*easiest* thing to do on this subject....but understanding
	is in short supply.

Steve Seidman
q2tj@vax5.cit.cornell.edu

Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american,alt.discrimination
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american

In soc.culture.african.american, kenny@osf.org (Kenneth Crudup) writes:
> I just read in the newspaper that 5 (yes, five) White officers pulled another
> Black motorist out of his car and beat the crap out of him again, this time
> in Nashville.   
> This would have faded into the background of police brutality of White 
> officers on Blacks that only comes to light only once in a while, but for 
> one small factor- the motorist beaten was a Nashville undercover cop.
> 
> I guess everyone in the NPD will come out and say that it wasn't racially
                                                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> motivated. They acted so quickly, obviously aided by the courage afforded by
  ^^^^^^^^^
	you got that right, brother.  chief o' police said he suspended
	the cops pending an investigation & said it *didn't appear to
	be racially motivated*

	HAH!

> having two dick substitutes strapped to their sides that even the Nashville
> police chief wondered if he even had time to state he was an officer.
> 
> I'm personally waiting to hear all the rationalizations coming from the White
> folks like they did for Rodney King.
> 
	me too!


pjm.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: barnhart@ddsw1.MCS.COM (Mr. Aaron Barnhart)
Subject: Shelby Steele on Malcolm
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1992 04:50:19 GMT
Organization: Evanston, Illinois, U.S.A.


I forgot to change the Subject line, so in case you skipped over
it, you may want to check out the article with Subject line

Re: Ruling Class Tries to Co-Opt Malcol

by me for a lengthy excerpt from Shelby Steele's article on
Malcolm's life and the film about him.  (Malcolm, not Shelby.)

Aaron
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: mukasa@panix.com (Michael K Mukasa)
Subject: Re: "White man's" AIDS
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 18:31:20 GMT
Organization: Panix, NYC

In <5498.117.uupcb@travel.com> carl.camurca@travel.com (Carl Camurca)  writes:

[stuff deleted]


>PMM>>Now that does it!!! I was already waiting for this crap. You did not
>PMM>>disappoint me. The rate of homosexuality in humans is about 5-10%,
>PMM>>REGARDLESS of race, time or culture. So, there are 5-10% Gay Africans.
>PMM>>In this conference alone, there are at least 5 people, who are open with
>PMM>>it.

>PMM>Speak for your self and about what you know.  Dont look ridiculous
>PMM>making such claims, especially in the vicinity of Africans.

>I hold that statement. Perhaps somebody else, who has been in Africa,
>can enlighten him.

>greetinx, Carl.

> * OLX 2.1 TD * Practice Random Acts of Kindnesses and Sensless Beauty
>                                                                              

Makala is correct homosexuality is virtually non existant in sub-saharan
Africa.  Even saying 1% of the population is homosexual would be a vey
large error.
Taking a sample of a population in the U.S and then applying those views
to the world as a whole is very dangerous.  It ignores culture, values and
different societies.  This is what has been done here.  People keep
throwing around this 5%-10% value.  It was obtained by sampling a
population in the U.S or some other Western society, it cannot and should
not be applied universally.  If I sample the Somali population and say 50%
of the people face starvation, i cannot then say 50% of the U.S population
face starvation.  This is what everyone is doing.

Kiggundu

Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american,alt.discrimination
From: lkk@panix.com (Larry Kolodney)
Subject: Re: I'm Still Waiting
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 05:03:34 GMT
Distribution: usa,local
Organization: The Devil's Advocate

In <1992Dec14.113247.1@milori.ccit.arizona.edu> ohall@milori.ccit.arizona.edu writes:

>> 
>  I didn't say "More Brutal".  However give me some examples of slavery which
>  has been as brutal as U.S. slavery and has continued for the number of years
>  that slavery did in this nation.  
>  America has still held on to its notion of blacks being inferior.

Brazil.  Blacks make up a much larger percentage of the population
there than here, yet whites still dominate the power structures.

-- 
larry kolodney:(lkk@panix.com) 
_(*#&)#*&%)@(*^%_!*&%^!)*&#+!*&$+!?&%+!*&^_)*&#%)*&^%#+&
The past is not dead, it's not even past.   - Wm. Faulkner
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: What's wrong w/ Our Skin Color?
From: galan@netlink.cts.com (Greg Gross)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 12:20:38 PST
Organization: NetLink Online Communications, San Diego CA

<FKR@psuvm.psu.edu>  Fred Rozenblad writes:

> 
> A funny experience happened to me today.  As I was taking my son to day care
> center this morning, I waited in the car while my wife was taking him in the
> bldg when I noticed the car parked adjacent to my car.  It had a white lady
> nad her young daughter.  What's so strange here is she was having a problem
> starting her car?  It wouldn't kick over.  You know how some car seem to
> have starting problems every once in a while.  Her car happened to be a Ford
> (I can't remember the make).
> 
> Well I over her some assistance in getting her car started, and the lady
> flatlyrefused me.  She looked at me like my skin had the plague or
> something.  So afterreceiving that vibe from her, I left her alone.  (I
> thought I was being nice by trying to help).  When my wife came back to our
> car, I explain to her want hap- pened; and I asked her if there is something
> wrong w/ black skin.  Anyway, the lady who I offered to help stayed in her
> car trying to get it started.  She did not succeed.  I'm not sure if I would
> have been able to get the car started, butI could have rendered some
> assistance.  Anyway, as we drove off the lot, she found herself going into
> the day care office to try to get some additional help- maybe call a
> mechanic, her husband, etc.
> 
> THe situation struck me as funny because one has to wonder was is the
> problem some whites may have w/ AfAms.  I know prejudice is the answer here,
> or some other explanation, but that's immaterial.  What's the problem w/ our
> skin color?
> 
> 
> Fred Rozenblad
> FKR@psuvm.psu.edu


Fred:

The problem was -- and *is* -- her stereotype of blacks and the fear that 
stereotype creates. Have had experiences similar to yours *many* times, 
wherever I've been in the United States.

At first, this used to *sadden-annoy-infuriate* me, but no longer. I just 
go out and be who I am, part of which is to try to help people if they're 
in trouble. If they can't handle the concept that a black man is capable 
of this, that's their problem. If they don't want the help, that's cool, 
too. As as long the situation is not life-threatening, I'm perfectly 
prepared to leave them alone with their fears.
G.

--
Gregory Alan Gross      Welcome to life, where no good deed goes unpunished.
San Diego Union-Tribune         (619) 293-1270 (voice)
P.O. Box 191                    (619) 293-2333 (fax)
San Diego, CA 92112-4106        galan@netlink.cts.com (Internet)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: ronaldd@cbnewse.cb.att.com (ronald.h.davis)
Subject: Re: The Clinton Cabinet
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 23:30:49 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.031626.20046@pslu1.psl.wisc.edu> johnson@whitewater.chem.wisc.edu (Art Johnson) writes:
>
>     As I recall, biracial people were classified by the Census Bureau  
>according to which race they listed first, e.g. a person who said that  
>s/he was "white/black" was classified as "white", while a person who said  
>s/he was "black/white" was classified as "black".
>
*very* wrong.  the census rules as i read them have conditions which, to
some extent, base one's race upon the "proportion" of one's racial mix
[which is, in turn, a function of the race of the parents].  imho the rules,
by and large, are concerned with maintaining white purity, thus, an asian
or hispanic can eventually have scions who are categorized as "white".
the situation with black people is different, however.  a person cannot
be white if they have traceable black ancestors [which says a lot about
what some white people *uniquely* think about black people apart from
other races].  the think that is so ridiculous about this condition is
that it would make [according to estimates that i have read] 20-25% of
"white" people, "black".

-- 
  __  ______  __  / __/ |       at&t bell laboratories, naperville il, usa
_/ (_(_) / (_(_/_/_(_/  .       ronald@iexist.att.com / att!iexist!ronald
"if you ain't the lead dog, the scenery never changes" -- edmund wilson
From: HF.GTD@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gabrielle Daniels)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: u.s. somalia
Date: 20 Dec 92 21:01:29 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Stanford University
NNTP-Posting-Host: morrow.stanford.edu

In article <4asyVB1w165w@netlink.cts.com>,
galan@netlink.cts.com (Greg Gross) writes back to
>lashlepi@newton.ccs.tuns.ca (Phillip Lashley):
>We, along with a few other countries, probably *will* be intervening in
>Bosnia pretty soon...and I have to say, reluctantly...YES.
>
>There are lots of good reasons *not* to do that...a tangle of ethnic
>hostilities going back decades, if not centuries...and fighting in Bosnia
>means combining two of the worse kinds of warfare there are, mountain
>warfare and house-to-house in big cities.
>
>But apart from relieving the suffering of defenseless people, there's one
>compelling reason why something *has* to be done. Two little words...
>
>"Ethnic cleansing."
>
.
.
I once knew a Croatian immigrant guy in high school. Leo even dated
a homegirl for a significant amount of time, and she was a couple of
years older than him.
.
I once asked him how would it be if I dressed in native Croatian
dress in his country. Leo said basically, they will kill you...
.
I'd like to know where folks' minds were before this mess got
seriously overheated, just like in Somalia. Where was the freaking
US/UN conducting TALKS.
.
I think the Europeans should have gotten together and instigated
something, instead of waiting until the Serbs jumped half of Croatia
and half of Bosnia-Herzegovina and everyone started exterminating
each other.
.
Speaking of ethnic differences among these folks...they are
basically from the same racial strain.  Only problem is religion.
Some folks never forgot they had been overrun by the colored folks
that used to run the Ottoman Empire...Muslims, in fact.
.
Bosnians are Muslims.
Croatians are Catholics.
Serbians are Eastern Orthodox.
.
And now they are acting as if they are in the 12th century.
.
I don't like us being in Somalia as well as in what was Yugoslavia.
 I think we've got to get to the place where violence is a last
resort in EVERY case.  And don't tell me talking don't make it.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Others did it, why can't you?
From: galan@netlink.cts.com (Greg Gross)
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 92 10:49:54 PST
Organization: NetLink Online Communications, San Diego CA

betsys@cs.umb.edu (Elizabeth Schwartz) writes:

> It's hard to convey emotion over the Net. I'm not saying all this to
> put down black struggles. I'm saying it because I believe that
> understanding where people are coming from is really necessary to
> communication. If you say that all immigrants with white skin had it
> easy, then you deny the very real suffering and disillusionment that a
> lot of them went through. The point isn't to compare suffering, to
> rank it from one to ten. The conditions faced by slaves in our country
> were possibly the worst conditions faced ever in history to that time.
> 

Elizabeth:

Quite right.

A lot of lblacks have spoken of slavery and its legacy, as well as 
modern-day affects of racism, as a way of trying to get others to 
to put the present-day racial situation in this country in some sort of 
context.

Often, the response is something to the effect of: Catholics faced 
opporession, too, and they managed all right without a Catholic Student 
Union"....and other equally inane expressions. they seem to feel that if 
they can show how others have suffered in this country and still managed 
to be assimiliated into the society, that we will "get out of their face" 
on the subject of racism, which they are weary of hearing about.

When it comes to comparative suffering, we, for the most part on this net 
at least, have *not* been the ones making the comparisons.
G.

--
Gregory Alan Gross      Welcome to life, where no good deed goes unpunished.
San Diego Union-Tribune         (619) 293-1270 (voice)
P.O. Box 191                    (619) 293-2333 (fax)
San Diego, CA 92112-4106        galan@netlink.cts.com (Internet)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american