Newsgroups: bit.listserv.gaynet
Date:         Thu, 13 Aug 1992 01:17:03 -0400
From:         gaynet@ATHENA.MIT.EDU
Subject:      GayNet Digest Volume 5 Issue 620

In this issue:
                      Story purportedly about AIDS
                 Gay/Les/Bi/Trans/Queer as an Identity
                             Band on Track
                        Stone Phillips and Bush
                   Massachusetts DP Executive Order
                          "choosing" to be gay
                Testimony Needed for MA LGB Youth Comm.
                       WWII and the military ban.

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: <MARKD@urjwc.ucla.edu>
Subject: Story purportedly about AIDS
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 11:28:00 PDT
Encoding: 11 TEXT

Richard Velez,
    Thanks for the posting from SellOut Mag.!  It's always interesting to
discover to what lengths paranoids can carry their paranoia.  All that was
missing was the diatribe against the Jewish race, which, we all know, has a
secret, powerful organization bent on world domination.
    And Brother Hodari, babe, take a chill pill.
Mark (not a white supremacist, internalized or otherwise)

"I wear black on the outside, because black is how I feel on the inside."
-- Morrissey, who has yet to declare his affections

------------------------------

From: Mark Hertzog <mwh8h@uva.pcmail.Virginia.EDU>
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 16:16:36 EDT
Subject: Gay/Les/Bi/Trans/Queer as an Identity

Howdy.  $0.02:
     Those who complain that a group identity creates an "us-them" situation
ignore one essential fact: the division is there, and *we did not create it.*
It was straight society that decided long ago that hets were "us" and queer
folk were "them."  It continues to this very day and is played upon by the
president of the United States and his political party.  A group identity is
the means for (forgive my abuse of the language here) un-themming ourselves.
Adopting a g/l/b/t/q identity connects us with a g/l/b/t/q community, and
allows us to connect and work with other "them" groups toward the day, not
likely to be seen in our lifetimes, when this society is no longer built on
an "us-them" dynamic.  That will occur only when the united "thems" have
accumulated enough cohesive political and social power that "us-them"
politics is a loser.
     I say it's not likely to be seen in our lifetimes because (a) there are
too many people like our posting friend who have been sold a bill of goods
that having any identity other than the predominate "real American" identity
is wrong, and (b) those with power are succeeding beautifully in egging us on
in dividing amongst ourselves, gay men v. lesbians v. bisexuals v.
transsexxuals v. queers v. homophiles v. moderates v. militants v. insiders
v. outsiders v. leatherfolk v. radical feminists v. ... need I go on?  And
that's just within our own community.
     Or, in brief, as I think Ben Franklin said: "We must all hang together,
or surely we shall all hang separately."
     Responsible replies are welcome.

Mark Hertzog, Gay Down South in Dixie
("You son of a bitch!  There were only seven Democrats in this county, and
you ate five of them!" --California judge sentencing Alferd Packer, ca. 1850)

------------------------------

From: buckmr@rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
Subject: Re: Band on Track
Distribution: local
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 20:49:39 GMT

Ron Biduk                            <ECZ5RAB@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU> writes:

>According to an article that appeared in the August 10th issue of the Los
>Angeles Times, the TV dramatization of Randy Shilts' bestseller on the
>beginning of the AIDS crisis, "And the Band Played On," has a new director
>and will start filming in October for HBO.
Thanks for posting this, Ron! I had noticed this in the LAT, too, but forgot
to write it up. Too bad I didn't get to meet you wehen I was at UCLA last
week. I met both Mac Phillips and Peter Hyashida, who were really nice.

>Director Roger Spottiswoode (who directed "Stop or My Mom Will Shoot!" and
>"Shoot to Kill") will replace Joel Schumacher, who withdrew from the film
>last September, shortly before production was to begin.  Schumacher complained
>of problems with the script and HBO said at the time that it would be
>undergoing "fine-tuning" while a new director was sought.
Hmm, well I know Schumacher is an openly gay director. Does anyone know about
Spottiswoode?

I have a real problem with the MUCHO ATTITUDE Miz Shilts has been throwing
around these days, even though I do think his two books MAYOR OF CASTRO STREET
and AND THE BAND PLAYED ON are brilliant [and *required* reading]. :-)
--
RON BUCKMIRE
Association to Promote the Apotheosis of Mariah Carey
54 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735
uunet!rpi.edu!buckmr||buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet||buckmr@rpi.edu||+1 518 276 8919

------------------------------

From: buckmr@rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
Subject: Re: Stone Phillips and Bush
Distribution: local
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 21:08:37 GMT

M-HAMM@vm1.spcs.umn.edu writes:

>Did anyone get as mad as I did last night watching Stone Phillips
>interview Bush in the Oval Office? Jerko! Stone, for whom my
>estimation dropped five hundred points in ten minutes, asked
>Bush how he would respond to one of his grandchildren coming out.
Well, I didn't see the interview but the LA TIMES had an interesting article
on it today. The reason is that Bush is really in a bind between liberal
Republicans and his right-wing hatemongers. He was also asked a hypothetical
question about what he would do if his grandaughter was pregnant and wanted to
get an abortion. He said that he would ``try to talk her out of it'' but when
"Stone" [puhleeeeeeeeze! What a name. I think it refers to his brain tissue]
asked him point blank ``So you would let her make the decision'' [paraphrased],
Bush responded testily ``Of course! Who else would make it?''. Mind-boggling!
These people are calling for a CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT to give "the foetus"
equal protection as a person under the 14th Amendment.

Similkarly a few weeks ago when the HRCF accused the Bush-Quayle campaign of
gay-bashing Quayle HIMSELF called Larry King and said that they had a
nondiscrimination policy in the White HOuse, which then got their Right Wing
screaming at them for ``giving specal rights to homo-sek-shooo-alls''. They
are *STUCK* and they're going to lose...

>ONLY, Mr. Perfect Media Dude blew the whole thing by throwing it
>out at Bush like it was a poisonous snake: "If one of your grandchildren
>came to you and said that they were going to live a gay lifestyle, what
>would you do?"

>"I would tell them I wouldn't approve of their CHOICE..." etc.,
>and that it goes against nature, and all the rest.  Puke.  Vomit.

So, you can be gay, just don't be BLATANT about it and for heaven's sake don't
become one of those ACTIVIST people who go around trying to get SPECIAL RIGHTS
and SAME-SEX MARRIAGES for ``homosexuals and lesbians'' [I keep on seeing this
phrase in print, in the NYT *and* the LAT!].

-
RON BUCKMIRE, 54 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735. ``D.C. in '93!''
uunet!rpi.edu!buckmr||buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet||buckmr@rpi.edu||+1 518 276 8919
"We don't necessarily discriminate.  We simply exclude certain types of
 people." --Lt Col. Gerald Wellman, ROTC Instructor at M.I.T.,on D.O.D. 1332.14

------------------------------

Subject: Re: Massachusetts DP Executive Order
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 17:02:45 EDT
From: Ron Buckmire <buckmr@rpi.edu>

On Thursday, August 6 1992, gordon linoff <gordon@Think.COM> wrote:

>
> Gov. William Weld (of Massachusetts) has been planning to
> issue an executive order that would recognize domestic
> partnerships of state employees.  As you may know, his
> support of lesbigay issues has become an issue in the
> National Republican Party.
>
So has he signed the dang thing yet?

- -
RON BUCKMIRE, 54 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735 ``D.C., April 25 1993''
uunet!rpi.edu!buckmr||buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet||buckmr@rpi.edu||+1 518 276 8919
Repeat after me: "Mel Gibson is a Catholic Fundie from Hell!"
Repeat after me: "Mel Gibson is a Catholic Fundie from Hell!"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 18:17:42 EDT
From: Tim Pierce <twpierce@cs.amherst.edu>
Subject: "choosing" to be gay

M-HAMM@vm1.spcs.umn.edu said:

> Did anyone get as mad as I did last night watching Stone Phillips
> interview Bush in the Oval Office? Jerko! Stone, for whom my
> estimation dropped five hundred points in ten minutes, asked
> Bush how he would respond to one of his grandchildren coming out.
> ONLY, Mr. Perfect Media Dude blew the whole thing by throwing it
> out at Bush like it was a poisonous snake: "If one of your grandchildren
> came to you and said that they were going to live a gay lifestyle, what
> would you do?"

I wonder if he wasn't deliberately leading Bush on by approaching him
"on his own territory," as it were.  Phillips deserves a lot of
credit, I think, for cornering Bush on the gay rights issue rather
than letting it slide as so many other people do.  I was bothered by
the neo-conservative terms in which he phrased all of his questions,
but he seemed to be doing so in an extremely *deliberate* way, as if
he was going out of his way to use the language of the Right.  I got
the impression he might be conducting a kind of media "sting"
operation by giving Bush the opportunity to speak his own language
during the interview.

> After seeing gay couples with their arms around each other on
> the SAME channel at the Democratic National Convention, you'd
> think that NBC would be bright enough to have a standard policy
> about asking gay questions.  One simple little phrase, "sexual
> orientation" instead of "CHOOSING to be gay," shouldn't be TOO
> hard to remember.

Besides that I don't remember Phillips using the phrase "choose" to be
gay, I wonder, what the fuck difference does it make?  You can go on
all you want about how the Fundies attack queers with the claim that
queerness is a "choice," but face it -- even if that possibility is
proven false, they're only going to falter for a moment before coming
up with some other way of attacking us.

When we take umbrage at references to homosexuality as being "chosen,"
rather than attacking the more fundamental idea that there should be
nothing wrong with "choosing" such a thing anyway, I think we subtly
suggest that no one *would* choose to be gay if it *was* a choice.  I,
for one, am not convinced that I have always been queer, or if I was
genuinely "heterosexual" (insofar as those terms can be used in some
objective way) for some years of my life.  Go see if your library has
back issues of MS. and look for Lindsy Van Gelder's article from last
summer entitled "The `Born That Way' trap."

Attack the fundies on the basis that religion is a choice, too.  It's
much more effective.

-
____ Tim Pierce                / The Queer Resources Directory: access via
\  / twpierce@cs.amherst.edu   / anonymous ftp at nifty.andrew.cmu.edu in
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) / directory /pub/QRD.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 19:48 EST
From: GANDERSON@vax.clarku.edu
Subject: Testimony Needed for MA LGB Youth Comm.

The Commonwealth of Massachusetts
Governor's Commission on
Gay and Lesbian Youth

Central and Western Mass. Regional Hearings
Monday, November 16, 1992
  1:00 - 4:00 PM
Worcester State College
Student Center Auditorium
486 Chandler Street, Worcester, MA

TESTIMONY NEEDED!

The Massachusetts Governor's Commission on Gay and Lesbian Youth is
seeking youth, parents, professionals and concerned citizens to testify for
the Central and Western Mass. Regional Public Hearing.

 We are looking for people with moving stories and comments on the
perils facing lesbian, gay, and bisexual youth.  We are particularly
looking for stories and comments about suicide and suicidal ideation
(seriously thinking about suicide), problems of youth in schools, problems
dealing with state or private agencies, HIV/AIDS risk, substance use risk,
harassment and/or violence and any steps that you or your agency
&/or school have taken to address the needs of lesbian, gay or
bisexual youth.

Please prepare 3-5 pages of double spaced type-written testimony.
Call us if you need help in preparing your testimony.  Once we review
the testimony we will tell  you when you are scheduled to testify.

Please send Testimony to
Jerry Cheney
Governor's Commission on Gay and Lesbian Youth
C/O H.A.S.C.M. 71 Elm Street, Worcester, MA 01609

Telephone: (508) 756-7123 or (508) 755-0005
FAX: (508) 756-8922 or (508) 755-0005 (after calling first)
E Mail Jerry Cheney C/0 "GANDERSON@vax.clarku.edu"

P.S. There will also be two days of hearings at The State House in
Boston on November 17th and 18th.

------------------------------

Date:         Wed, 12 Aug 92 23:51:20 EDT
From: Bob Summersgill <XE605C@gwuvm.gwu.edu>
Subject:      WWII and the military ban.

Michele Keffer asked if gay men and lesbians were removed from the military
during WWII and uncerimoniously dumped on the west coast.

Yes, many (more than three) men were removed from the military for being gay
during WWII.  Marvin Liebman, a long time conservative organizer who came
out a couple of years ago in the National Review and the Advocate, was
removed from the army, along with a number of others with which he
corresponded, for being homosexual.  Hhas written about it in his soon
to be released auto-biography.  I have read his book, and found it
fascinating (end of plug.)   He was dropped off on the west coast, but
given bus fare (or ticket) home.

WWII was a crucial point in the development of a gay (at least gay male)
sub-culture.  For an interesting account on that point see:

"Sexual Politics, Sexual Communities; The making of a Homosexual Minority
in the United States, 1940-1970" by John D'Emilio, University of Chicago
Press.

I have also had the pleasure of meeting a man who was rejected from the WWII
draft for stating on the form that he was a homosexual.  (age 18).

Additionally, Frank Kameny, one of the first and most vocal gay rights
activists was drummed out of what is now the Defense Mapping Agency for
being homosexual in the late 1940's.  He is a combat WWII veteran who
now works on representing gays being ousted from gov't (including military)
positions on security clearance grounds.


- Bob Summersgill         |  If we can put a man on the moon, why can't
  XE605C @ GWUVM.GWU.EDU  |  we put a man on the moon? -- Bill Engfer

------------------------------

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