HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: darsie@eecs.ucdavis.edu (Richard Darsie)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: population growth
Date: 14 Dec 92 19:23:07 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of California, Davis

In article <ByyJ9I.HHx@news.iastate.edu>, txdv1@isuvax.iastate.edu (Angela KAY Rolling) writes:
> 
> The one mager facter that keep the human population down were the plagues
> that we now now how to 1:controle and/or 2:not die from contracting them.
> the three big plagues (in I beleave order of contributing) spicificly
> pnumonic form of bubonia aka bubonic plague aka tha black death, 
> influenza bater known as the flue and other types of pnemonia. Influenza
> and pnemonia still rank about 5 on cause of death in the US, 4 is axadents,
> 3 is lung desease (not counting cancer), 2 is all kinds of cancer, 1 is
> hart desease (not counting cancer). The population burst didnt happen 
> untill we got control of the bubonic plague it was the #1 contributer
> of population control (earliest recorded istince in achent Egypt-over 1/2
> the population died). When 1/2 the population dies ever so many years
> there is no growth.

A couple of points in response to this post:  

1) I think you're overestimating the historical importance of bubonic
   plague. True, it was responsible for a major depopulation of Europe
   and Asia in the 14th century, but in the greater scope of history,
   both malaria and smallpox have killed more people over the last
   five millenia than have bubonic plague.

2) The identification of historical plagues (such as the one you mention
   in ancient Egypt) is a tricky business. I doubt if any epidemiologist
   would venture to make a definitive statement on the identity of 
   a disease from historical records as long ago as ancient Egypt.
   Even the great plague that struck Athens in the 5th century BC
   is not identified for certain, though many medical historians believe
   that it was typhus. The effects and symptoms of diseases change 
   considerably over time as the populations of pathogens and people 
   adapt to each other. For example, most of what we now call "childhood" 
   diseases, e.g., measles, mumps, chicken pox, etc. were at one time 
   much more virulent than they are today, and caused great epidemics 
   with high mortality rates. 

3) There is a fascinating book about the history of disease, I believe
   it's called "Plagues and Peoples". It's a very nontechnical, readable
   book, and puts forward the thesis that many historical trends, 
   particularly as concerns the movement of peoples over the landscape,
   are explainable by the occurrence of disease.

Richard (Tuneweaver)

> Elf-Kin
> 
>
From: amadeus@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Susan Harwood Kaczmarczik)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: pagan origin of Christmas customs?
Date: 16 Dec 92 20:42:14 GMT
Organization: University of Texas at Austin

In article <85439@ut-emx.uucp> martini@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (ok) writes:
>um, could someone describe Mithras in simple terms, and suggest some good
>books on the matter, and who/where were the oak & holly kings.. what was
>the wild hunt?  universal, or local?

Mithras was a Roman/Persian vegetation god, also a sun god -- you
know, one of those regenerate-every-year-as-the-seasons-return kind of
gods.  He was the intercessor for man to Ormazd (hearkening back to
his Persian origins as Mithra), and, as was often the case in a
messianic sort of cult, promised his adherents wordly success and joy
in the hereafter.  The cult was pretty widespread (they've unearthed a
shrine of his in London), and it was also very "closed-club" -- very
secretive, lots of religious drama, and only men could participate.
It still existed as far as the 3rd century C.E., when Tertullian used
certain members of that cult to show lax Christians how they should be.

The oak king and the holly king represent the God in his aspect as
champion and challenger, as seen in the waxing and waning of the year.
They fight every year to win the Goddess -- i.e. to dominate the
season.  The oak king represents the first half of the year; the holly
king the second.  Many elements of this can be found in Sir Gawain and
the Green Knight.

Books I would recommend include _The Golden Bough_ by Frazer, most of
the works by the Farrars (including _The Witches' God_ and _Eight
Sabbats for Witches__ and _The White Goddess by Graves.  Also, get a
good book about the gods and goddesses from different cultures, like
_Guide to the Gods_ by Carlyon.  

I see you're also at UT -- are you involved in the Pagan Student
Alliance?  If not, you might enjoy it.  They'll start their meetings
up again in January.

-- 
-----Susan Harwood Kaczmarczik-------------------------------*<:-)-------------
"Queens never make bargains."  -- The Red Queen, _Through the Looking Glass_
-----amadeus@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu--------------The University of Texas @Austin---
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: dart@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Dartanyan)
Subject: Re: Looking for names of gods and goddesses for baby
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 17:54:49 GMT

In article <1gisk1INNms6@gap.caltech.edu> ann@cco.caltech.edu (Ann Terese Heil) writes:
>I am expecting my second child in a couple of months, and would like
>to give her/him the name of a god or goddess or mythological character
>as a middle name.  I am not particular about the mythology from which
>the name is drawn.  My first born's middle name is Ra, after the 
>Egyptian sun god.  Any and all suggestions would be very welcome!
>
>I know this subject was discussed a couple of years ago.  Did someone
>save a file of names that could forward it on to me?
>
>peace
>ann
>

Personally, i think it's just a .bit. pretentious to name your child after a
god/dess, but then again, look at all the Bridgets and Morgans and Dianas and 
Brians and Patricks running around.  *shrug*
            ^ (yes, i know this comes from Patricius, the Roman who was 
		primarily responsible for the slaughter of a lot of druids,			and whom was later made a saint by the (?)Roman Catholic Church)

just my bit.

--
dart
From: coyote@igc.apc.org (Thomas Follis)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: RE: PAGAN & NOMENCLATURE
Date: 20 Dec 92 04:27:00 GMT
Nf-ID: #R:1992Dec19.165027.45798@kuhub.cc.:-1224624055:cdp:1308700012:000:99
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!coyote    Dec 19 20:27:00 1992


 Arnt we forgetting, "And it harms mo one, Do what thou wilt"?
     BB and happy yule!
     Coyote
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: txdv1@isuvax.iastate.edu (Angela KAY Rolling)
Subject: recycling/reusing
Reply-To: txdv1@isuvax.iastate.edu
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 16:10:47 GMT

Recycling->taking a used product (plasic botles cans ect) and procesing
(smelting, melting ect) into something that is useful (coats, trash cans,
bumpers, sparklies(sorry, big fan of Mis Bixbe(?) and the Rats of NIME))
Reusing->taking a used product (glass bottles, porcline peaces), cleaning
them up (bleaching,disinfecting) and using them for something difrint
(decore in an aquascape or back bone for a reef) of for the same purpose
(glass bottles)

When it was stated that porcline should be recycled instead of going to
the land fill I think that it was ment that we should reuse.!

The aquascape in my 10 gallon (I want to get a bigger one but..) has
an old small pot (on its side) with a marble sample peace from a hardware
store resting on top creating a really neat cave and several plants with
blue quartz graval. Really brings out my fish (1 albino ranbow shark,1 male
blue/three spot guromi, 1 female blue/three spot guromi, ~12 feeder guppies
that managed to get too big to eat, and 2 pleseadoas(to clean up the alge)

Elf-Kin	With a 20+ I could add a cuple of discuse
From: kre@po.CWRU.edu (Keith R.W. Elflein)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: correction
Followup-To: alt.pagan
Date: 16 Dec 1992 04:53:37 GMT
Organization: International Horn Society
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: b61693.student.cwru.edu

I did not mean to imply, in my previous article, that i actually believed
that a witch was someome who sold hirself to evil. I just meant that that
was what i have always been told. I don't believe it...You see, i am in an
odd stage right now. I am becoming more and more interested in wicca..but i
still am not sure. I am just trying to find out all the facts. Thanks to
everyone who responded with advise. I am currently attempting to locate
some books on Wicca to read. Hahaha..speaking of advise, i may need some if
the time ever comes to tell my parents that i am a "witch." Thanks again
everyone, and i'm sure you'll be hearing from me again. :) and a Merry
Winter break to all of you.

Keith


"When tears of joy are flowing, Love laughs sweetly at the beloved! To kiss
them from her cheeks is Love's most beautiful, greatest payment."
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: stave@frost.apollo.hp.com (Joel H. Stave)
Subject: Re: pagan origin of Christmas customs?
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 17:39:09 GMT
Reply-To: stave@apollo.hp.com
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Apollo Division - Chelmsford, MA

In article <85381@ut-emx.uucp>, amadeus@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Susan
Harwood Kaczmarczik) writes:
|> The thing to remember, though, is that there are many fundamentalist
|> Christians (and fundamentalist I mean in original sense of just
|> wanting to get back to the basics of the faith without the "pagan" or
|> otherwise unnecessary trappings as well as those we might more
|> properly call "funnymentalists") who do not observe certain "customs"
|> of Christmas -- precisely because those customs are pagan in origin
|> and they know that.
|> 
|> So don't expect to surprise these people; many of them will be able to
|> respond (truthfully) that they knew those customs were pagan and they
|> don't indulge in them either.  Then you can start talking about how

The point was that this person wasn't just talking about personal
observation of a holiday, but trying to change the school curriculum
based on the pagan origins of Halloween.  My point is that if this
is the case, then the school observation of Christmas should be
changed as well.  I hope to show that this person is being a little
silly. 

Joel Stave
stave@apollo.hp.com
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: heff@apollo.hp.com (Jeff Oesterle)
Subject: Food for Fasting
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 22:40:55 GMT
Reply-To: heff@apollo.hp.com (Jeff Oesterle)
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories


So, I'm planning on fasting in a couple of weeks, and I'm wondering
what the best way to go about it is.

The options available seem to be water only, varieties of juices, 
and/or vitamins.  I've heard different recommendations, and would
like to get more information.   A FOAF who studied nutrition as an
undergrad seems to think that drinking juices would be worse on the
ole digestive system than drinking just water.  Does this make sense?



Jeff Oesterle

================
"No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, 
nor should they be considered patriots.  This is one nation under God."
                                         - George Bush
<choke> <cough> Say WHAT?!?!?!?
================

(Disclaim, disclaim, disclaim.)
From: alizard@pil
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Social inhibitions to environmental change
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 92 17:18:53 PST

Re: Re: Social inhibitions to environmental change
 
> From: Angela Johnson <Angela_Johnson@med.umich.edu>
> Newsgroups: alt.pagan
> Subject: Re: Social inhibitions to environmental change
> >>I think some serious study of how things REALLY work, from natural
> processes
> >>to recycling to how things are actually made in a technological culture
> >>is in order for Ashley, unless Ashley wants to provide unintentional
> >>entertainment to the users of this newsgroup.
> I agree with you Al.  We all have a right to our opinions, however
>  should be a bit tactful when applying criticisms/disagreements regarding 
>  others ideas/opinions.  
>  Yes....being kind would be nice, wouldn't it?! :-)
>  
>  .............Angela

Ashley is an adult. I really don't think that not letting him know when he's
made a fool of himself in front of an international audience is doing him
any favor. Not sparing his feelings will result in his learning faster.
From what I've seen around here, since I dared take a heretical stance, 
people have NOT been taking any special care to spare my feelings. When I
put my own foot in it, I expect negative feedback from the Net, that's one
of the reasons why I expose my ideas to public discussion and criticism.
blessings
                                                 A.Lizard
====== 93 ====== sum saurus, sum saurus, sum maximus saurus! ====== 93 ======
 (slogan contributed by Jessica Mc Geary)  (translated by Murray Altheim)
Mail to me should be sent to:       |  There are no fnords in this sig file.
alizard%tweekco%boo@PacBell.COM     |  autoreply to address I posted this
     ^^^ preferred site ^^^         |  from only if you want to wait a
PacBell.COM!boo!tweekco!alizard     |  solstice or two for my answer.
alizard@seer.mystic.com             |              Kallisti!
^^^use ONLY if all else fails       |  PGP2.0 public key available on request

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From: dhardin@bbn.com (Dawn Hardin)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Social inhibitions to environmental change
Date: 11 Dec 1992 22:38:40 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com

In article <RaR=_w-@engin.umich.edu>, Angela Johnson <Angela_Johnson@med.umich.edu> writes:
> 
> 
> In article <lihit5INN7kd@news.bbn.com> Dawn Hardin, dhardin@bbn.com
> writes:
> > Personally, I think Alizard was performing an act of kindness, but you
> may disagree.
> 
> Disagree!!!!!!!!!!!!  Alizard rarely displays an act of kindness towards
> anyone on ANY of the groups!

I wouldn't say that -- he forwarded me the "Revenge" FAQ from
alt.tasteless -- I thought that was sweet.  I guess it depends on your
definition of "sweet".

> >Especially since .... has demonstrated a fair share of brains elsewhere.

I think this came out wrong in my post -- I meant, we know Ashley
has brains, I thought he'd appreciate having an error pointed out.
My fingers screwed it up between my brain and the keyboard.

I prefer to have my posts picked apart if I say something dumb.  It's
kind of patronising to say "let's not tell her this is silly, she may 
not want to post again."  If I say something wrong, or naive, or illiterate,
then for goddess's sake, tell me about it.  That's what an open discussion
is for.

Dawn

Joseph Campbell gave me hope and now I have been saved.
"Folk Song" by Bongwater
From: alizard@pil
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Social inhibitions to environmental change
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 21:42:56 PST

Re: Re: Social inhibitions to environmental change
 
> From: ksm@abb-sc.abb-sc.com (Ashley)
> Newsgroups: alt.pagan
> Subject: Re: Social inhibitions to environmental change
> Lines: 29
> In article <gate.3H3mVB1w165w@pil.UUCP>, alizard@pil writes...
> >Ashley has the right to say what he pleases. When he obviously doesn't
> Bull. I might suggest that YOU ought to learn how to listen to someone 
> other than yourself. You consistanly miss the point of anything I or anyone 
> else that you disagree with says. 
> And just so it is said one more time, I have never slammed your 
> Grow up and learn to listen a.lizard. You might learn something.
> - Ashley

From you? On this topic? That would seem unlikely. I have learned from you
on topics you do know something about.
                                                 A.Lizard
====== 93 ====== sum saurus, sum saurus, sum maximus saurus! ====== 93 ======
 (slogan contributed by Jessica Mc Geary)  (translated by Murray Altheim)
Mail to me should be sent to:       |  There are no fnords in this sig file.
alizard%tweekco%boo@PacBell.COM     |  autoreply to address I posted this
     ^^^ preferred site ^^^         |  from only if you want to wait a
PacBell.COM!boo!tweekco!alizard     |  solstice or two for my answer.
alizard@seer.mystic.com             |              Kallisti!
^^^use ONLY if all else fails       |  PGP2.0 public key available on request

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Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe)
Subject: Re: Nomenclature...i am confused
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 21:04:13 GMT


I am a Witch, that is, I am a magic-worker.  Whether anyone before Gerald
Gardner ever used the word Witch for religious purposes, I do not know, and
it really doesn't matter to me.  Wicca is my religion, and one of the most
fundamental principles of Wicca is that magic is available to everyone.  To
call myself anything but Witch would make me feel that I was hiding from the
power implicit in the word Witch.  

Please note, there are pagans who work magic who are not Witches, but they are
in different strands of paganism than I am.  

Enjoy the journey!

                      --Br'anArthur

                                      Queer, Peculiar, and Wyrd! :-)

******************************************************************************
"We are secretly replacing the fine quartz crystals this medicine pouch maker
usually uses with Folgers crystals.  Let's see what happens...."
                                      --DACCrowell
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: markbr%radian@natinst.com (markbr)
Subject: Re: A Darkover type circle
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 18:57:42 GMT
Organization: n.o.y.b

In article <gate.uVHuVB1w165w@pil.UUCP> alizard@pil writes:
>Re: Re: A Darkover type circle
>
>Something I've been wondering about ever since reading the Darkover
>stories. Is it conceivable that using semiconductor technology, we could
>create our own artificial matrix crystals (for the non- Marion Zimmer
>Bradley readers on alt.pagan, a matrix is a crystalline structure that
>amplifies psychic energy) ... by writing the right patterns onto a chip?
>
>Let me add that there are several programs that will run on personal
>computers that will allow the direct writing of patterns onto a wafer,
>and the output can be sent to services like Orbit Semiconductor (a few
>thousand dollars and a few weeks... I didn't say that this would be cheap,
>but this isn't as expensive or difficult as most people think)...
>
>Something to think about...

The only problem is *detecting* psi energy. It doesn't seem to be electro-
magnetic; on the other hand, as Isaac Bonewitz pointed out in his dis-
sertation _Real Magic_, (quoting Russian studies) it *does* seem to
follow information theory & stuff like normal signal-to-noise-per-distance.

	mark

Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: markbr%radian@natinst.com (markbr)
Subject: Re: Women and Men Witches
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 23:55:21 GMT
Organization: n.o.y.b

In article <1992Dec9.020150.29872@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> radzy@ICSI.Berkeley.EDU (T. O. Radzykewycz) writes:
>>>>   b.	Forcing the existing teachers to change their curricula.
>>
>>markbr%radian@natinst.com (markbr) writes:
>>> Huh? 1b is power-over? Do not those wonderful folks who *determine* the
>>> curriculum have power-over? Is this not an example of feedback from those
>>> "being educated", to modify the content? On what basis should this content
>>> be modified, the goodwill of the determiners?
>>
>>Yup, 1b *is* power-over.  Yes, those (ahem) wonderful (?) folk who
>>determine the curriculum *also* have power-over.  You *can* have
>>power-over on both sides, y'know.
>
>markbr%radian@natinst.com (markbr) writes:
>> It strikes me that you've set up an either-or situation. Will you
>> allow a third way, equal power? In which case, *neither* has power-over.
<munch!>
>radzy@ICSI.Berkeley.EDU (T. O. Radzykewycz) writes:
>>>So, Mark, do you believe that the only way to counter power-over is
>>>to *use* power-over?  Your response seems to indicate that.
>
>markbr%radian@natinst.com (markbr) writes:
>> Given the either-or situation, from *your* statements in the paragraph
>> above the above, you seem to believe that it is necessary, and *apparently*
>> advocate it.
>
>No, I don't advocate power-over.  But I also don't uniformly condemn
>it.  Like everything else, it's a tool, and you can choose to use the
>tool wisely or you can choose to use the tool foolishly.  I haven't
>heard anyone here advocating foolish use of that tool w.r.t. this
>topic.
>
>markbr%radian@natinst.com (markbr) writes:
>>> (This starts to sound like how the slave-owners' goodwill should
>>> improve the conditions of the slaves, doesn't it? Hmmmmm)
>
>radzy@ICSI.Berkeley.EDU (T. O. Radzykewycz) writes:
>>No, not at all.  The slave-owners should be convinced to free
>>the slaves.  If power-from-within techniques can't be made to
>>work, then power-over is another technique to try.  
>
>radzy@ICSI.Berkeley.EDU (T. O. Radzykewycz) writes:
>>Whatever you want to call it.  Regardless of whether or not you call
>>it a rose, it still involves *forcing* others to do your will.
>>
Let me get this straight (try #2): If somebody says that you have to
carry a basket, and then sits on your shoulders while you do so, 
refusing to let you do carry the basket any other way, and
you then knock him off, this is power-over?

It's not *removing* someone else's power over *you*?

	mark

Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: markbr%radian@natinst.com (markbr)
Subject: The Great Debate (was Space, the Final Frontier)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 18:44:32 GMT
Organization: n.o.y.b
Keywords: flames, space, recycling

Janis, ALizard, & supporters on both sides:

   Why is this flamewar going on? Could y'all answer the following questions,
*please*?

	1) Is this an argument+ to try to convince the other side that
		we need to recycle?  Is *anyone* actually arguing that 
		we don't need to recycle?

	2) Is this an argument inteded to convince those of us that have 
		dreamed, our whole lives, of going into space, to give
		up our dreams, that have given some of the meaning to
		our lives?

	3) Is the anti-space (if I may label it that, for convenience)
		side that we should wait until this world is perfect
		before we go into space? Is that reasonable in the 
		real world, or is it just a polite way to say "never"?

+ argument: "A series of statements intended to prove a proposition",
		Monty Python Dictionary Definition
 Contrast with "flame": one or more persons, sequentially raising voices
	& lowering vocabulary, with the intent of cowing the other.

	mark, in an oddly quiet mood
Newsgroups: alt.pagan