HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: forb0004@student.tc.umn.edu (Eric Forbis )
Subject: Re: Historical accuracy of Maggie's claims?
Organization: University of Minnesota
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 23:35:07 GMT

In article <1iq50cINNhoe@access.usask.ca> julie@skatter.USask.Ca (Julie Abell-Smith) writes:
>From article <1ikemdINNlcf@shelley.u.washington.edu>, by vicka@wrq.com (the Littlest Orc):
>  
>  I think that Maggie wasn't concerned with what archaeologists, 
>  present or future, male or female, might think of the site.  As 
>  Maurice (?) said, it seemed like someone might have buried the 
>  objects there *on purpose*, perhaps fairly recently.  Maybe Maggie 
>  reburied them as a mark of respect for their original owner -- 
>  she didn't like the idea of unburying the stuff for collectors 
>  and archaeologists to squint at.  
>  
>  She also thinks of this kind of respect as a "female" value, opposed
>  to the "male" value placed on opening up the site to prying eyes.
>  (I don't know that values are really all that gendered myself, but
>  since it got set up as Maggie/Marilyn/RuthAnn vs. Maurice/Ron&Eric,
>  I can sure see why Maggie could see it that way.)


It was sexism, pure and simple. I know of a good many men who were very 
offended by Maggie's backhanded swipes at the entire gender; if this was 
supposed to be irony or parody, they would have accomplished the same with 
race by references to "niggers", etc.. Lousy episode. Considering their 
founding sequence where lesbians were glorified and men were portrayed as 
emotional cripples by nature, I'm not too surprised. Welcome to feminism in 
action. 


>
>
>I've often wondered about this "respect" thing when it comes to ancient
>artifacts.  If I knew that in a few hundred years someone was going to
>dig up something that I've handmade, and put it in a museum, I'd be
>happy.  Mind you, I'm not crazy about the idea of excavating ancient
>corpses, but the things I have made and used are things that I wouldn't
>mind future generations seeing.  Does anyone agree with me?
>
>
>Jules
>
>
>
>
>--
---------

Eric Forbis      forb0004@student.tc.umn.edu
From: mas@porgy.jpl.nasa.gov (Marc A. Sarrel)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.northern-exp
Subject: Re: 1/11 Episode "Revelations"
Date: 12 Jan 93 19:08:01 GMT
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory
NNTP-Posting-Host: porgy.jpl.nasa.gov
In-reply-to: H. Nunes's message of Tue, 12 Jan 93 06:45:08 GMT

In article <1993Jan12.064508.1384@leland.Stanford.EDU> H. Nunes <hwnunes@leland.stanford.edu> writes:

   ! What really shocked my about the whole Chris and Simon thing was the
   fact that Simon DID turn out to be a woman.  It was so predictable, I
   didn't think they would take that route, then again, it was pretty much
   their only choice.  Any ideas why they decided to make her name Chris? 
   Was it just to get that Twilight Zone effect?

Well, I was dissapointed by the fact that Simon turned out to be a
woman.  Before that, I felt like the writers were tackling something
controversial (male homosexual fantasies), at least for Prime Time and
Network Sponsors.  (Compare the honeycomb imagery in Chris' dream with
the hood imagery in Maggie's).  When Simon turned out to be a woman I
was really pissed.  I felt the writers (or whoever) had sort of
chickened out.  At the begining, Chris thought that Simon was a
man.  But it was OK that Chris had fantasies about Simon because
Simon turned out to be a woman.  I also was kind of insulted by Chris'
closing monologue.  Was he saying that men _need_ women to be
complete and fulfilled?  I might expect something like this from
Maurice, but not from Chris.

   ! First and only gripe-- the reuse of footage used in the episode
   "Dateline:  Cicely" in the ending montage (the mom reading the newspaper
   with her daughter) is probably worst than using the trebuchet a second
   time... for me, anyway.

No argument here.  I really have not liked any of the closing montages
that they've done.  Does anyone know if it is a particular director
who does this, or what?
From: leinwand@mead.cisco.com (Allan Leinwand)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.northern-exp
Subject: Re: Maggie's hair
Date: 4 Jan 93 12:40:16
Organization: Cisco Systems, Inc., Menlo Park, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: mead.cisco.com
In-reply-to: jsteiner@anwsun.phya.utoledo.edu's message of 4 Jan 93 14:56:53 EST

In article <1993Jan4.145654.813@uoft02.utoledo.edu> jsteiner@anwsun.phya.utoledo.edu (jason 'Think!' steiner) writes:

> >What do people think about the new Maggie commercial in which
> >she is growing out her hair in back?

>   ick! every time it comes on i start screaming "CUT IT OFF JANINE!".
>   she's quite striking with short hair. very few people can pull that
>   off & it's a pity for someone who can to go with long hair.


Has anybody else seen a picture of Janine when she was modeling and on
General Hospital?  I saw a picture of her with long hair -- it is
worth checking out.
Newsgroups: alt.tv.northern-exp
From: alekz@welchgate.welch.jhu.edu (Alekz Vermont)
Subject: episodes on VHS videotape?
Organization: Johns Hopkins Univ. Welch Medical Library
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 20:21:33 GMT


i've never seen this posted in a FAQ or otherwise, so....

does anyone on the net have previous episodes on VHStape for either sale
or trade?  thanks :-)

email to:  alekz@library.welch.jhu.edu
From: rizzoe@FASECON.ECON.NYU.EDU (Emily Rizzo)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.northern-exp
Subject: January 4th Episode
Date: 5 Jan 93 14:31:27 GMT
Organization: New York University

I was truly disappointed in the January 4th episode of NX.  None of the 
threads seemed to work quite right and there were many small points which 
simply bothered me.

First, I understand now why there are no children in Cecily -- the writers
simply can't deal with them.  Brad was a paradoy of of a sitcom stereotype
of an obnoxious kid; there was nothing remotely real about him.  Twelve is 
a difficult age, somewhere between child and adult with a good chunk of 
each mixed in, but Brad came across as a smart-talking midget.  

As for Maggie's empowerment, since when does she need to be transformed
from the "little lady" to a loose cannon of feminism?  I thought her 
character always had a certain amount of built-in empowerment -- after all
she is functioning professionally in a man's world, and she has always been
quick in the past to call Joel on gender bias.  I find it incredible that 
she would have been so easily swayed at first by Maurice and then her 
later reaction appeared hysterical and counter-productive.

Finally, I was troubled by the fact that Maurice made an anti-gay comment
to Maggie and went unchallenged.  In previous episodes, I'm thinking of 
Chris's trial in particular, he has always been called to account for 
such bigotry.  Two cheers to Northern Exposure for showing gay characters
in non-stereotyped professions but they should have gone all the way and
had Maggie challenge Maurice's bigotry rather than let in slide.
From: jabraham@acs.ucalgary.ca (John Abraham)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.northern-exp
Subject: Re: Historical accuracy of Maggie's claims?
Date: 12 Jan 93 16:12:31 GMT
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta

In article <forb0004.194.726780248@student.tc.umn.edu> forb0004@student.tc.umn.edu (Eric Forbis ) writes:
>[.cte]
>This was no positive statement about women, strong or otherwise, just many
>generalized abusive statements about men. As far as my _reaction_ being a 
>swipe: then by your rules no one has a right to react to injustices, women 
>included- and since this program was based on Maggie's reaction, you've got 
>a double- standard running I'd like to see explained.
>[etc.]

Character's in TV shows are just that -- *characters*.
Characters can be sexist (like maggie) or bigots (like maurice)
or jewish or native or criminals or existentialists, etc.

If this bothers you (either of you), go and watch something tamer
like Jeopardy.

NEXP writers are entitled to make a statement about female
sexism.  I for one found it amusing and even a little
enlightening.

--
************************************************************** 
The trombone and harp player who's starting to call himself a
mathematician.
--
From: skippy@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Ian Goh)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.northern-exp
Subject: Official 1993 NEXP Calendar
Date: 7 Jan 1993 23:19:45 -0500
Organization: Benedict
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu

Hi All,

   Just came across the Northern Exposure "official" 1993 calendar at
   a B. Daltons.  Originally going for $10.95, it was a STEAL at the
   50% calendar discount that B. Daltons was having.

   Front cover has a photo of Joel and Maggie in front of a signpost with
   various mileages to other places (cut from a larger poster I'm sure).

   Each month has a photo of an actor/actress in the cast, a little bit about
   the character portrayed, and a longish Chris (mostly) monologue.

   January - Close up of Rob Morrow (Joel Flesichman).

   February - Close up of John Corbett (Chris Stevens)

   March - Close up of Janine Turner (Maggie O'Connell)

   April - Close up of Peg Phillips (Ruth-Anne Miller)

   May - Trio of Darren Burrows (Ed Chigliak), Rob Morrow, and Elaine
	 Miles (Marilyn Whirlwind).

   June - Duo of Cynthia Geary (Shelley Tambo) and John Collum (Holling 
	  Vincoeur).

   July - Rob Morrow in front of a "Welcome to Cicely, Alaska" sign.
	  NOTE: POPULATION IS STATED AS 215!!! (to all you 849 people).

   August - Another Janine Turner pose.

   Septmember - John Corbett again.

   October - Trio of John Corbett, Barry Corbin (Maurice Minnefield),
	     and Darren Burrow.

   November - Rob Morrow and a moose (well, a moose head at least).

   December - Close up of Elaine Miles.
     
   I've left out all the bits about the characters, and the wonderful
   radio monologues - see it for yourself! 

   There is a small group shot of all of the above cast members on the
   back cover and on the first front page. However, there is no large
   center section, and no larger group shot - both disappointments in my book.

   Otherwise it is your standard 365 day calendar (moon phases, and listings
   of US, UK, Canadian, Australian, and Jewish holidays).

   Check it out while supplies last (no plugs for B. Daltons here).

--- Ian ---
"Just another NEXP fan"
-- 
"Sir ... I protest!  I am not a merry man!"
					   - Worf, Q-Pid
Newsgroups: alt.tv.northern-exp
From: rrulli@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu (Rebecca Rulli)
Subject: Episode Guide
Organization: Northeastern University, Boston, MA. 02115, USA
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 21:28:16 GMT


I know that the episode guide has been posted before...but I didn't get
a chance to get it so if someone could email me a copy it would be much
appreciated.  Thanks.

Rebecca
rrulli@ds5000.dac.northeastern.edu


Newsgroups: alt.tv.northern-exp
From: heath@athena.cs.uga.edu (Terrance Heath)
Subject: Re: 1/11 Episode "Revelations"
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 01:13:52 GMT

In article <mudws.726845949@sunvis1> mudws@sunvis1.vislab.olemiss.edu (David Warren Steel) writes:

>>! What really shocked my about the whole Chris and Simon thing was the
>>fact that Simon DID turn out to be a woman.  It was so predictable, I
>>didn't think they would take that route, then again, it was pretty much
>>their only choice.  Any ideas why they decided to make her name Chris? 
>>Was it just to get that Twilight Zone effect?
>
>   I thought that was a nice touch.  She's his anima, the female side
>of himself, with whom he's always seeking to unite.  Though Chris loves
>women, and satisfies them, he can't settle with any one, since he's
>really seeking the other half of his own soul.

	This almost sounds like Chris himself wrote it! Nevertheless,
I was disappointed with that particular situation in last night's
show. I thought it was something of a cop-out myself. Not that I'm
longing for Chris to be gay or bisexuals (though the writer's chose to
ignore that Chris had an erotic dream about a MAN, right down to
describing "his" long, strong legs), but I was hoping the
writers/producers wouldnt' just sweep the whole thing under a neat
little rug.
	It was a predictable way to end it, I suppose, and a way to
keep everyone (well almost everyone) "comfortable". If Chris had "come
out" then there would have been a regularly occuring gay or bisexual
character on the show (Oh. Horror of horrors.) and that might have
made people squirm.
	I know Norther Exposure has featured gay characters before.
There was even a male couple that actually bought a house IN Cicely,
and moved there. They haven't been seen since. Maybe Maurice has them
bound and gagged in his basement. I've always had my suspicions about
him.......





-- 
"Black men loving black men is THE revolutionary act!"
			-Joseph Beam_
Terrance Heath 
heath@athena.cs.uga.edu
From: CLINDSAY@vma.cc.nd.edu
Newsgroups: alt.tv.northern-exp
Subject: Re: Holling sings
Date: 6 Jan 93 14:30:39 GMT

As well as the already noted 1776 spot for Holling, I have seen him in person
when I saw him in the Broadway musical Shenandoah around 1977 (on Broadway, no
less).  His singing role there as the father of the family coming to terms with

the Civil War was also great.  Even though I was young at the time, his acting
impressed me too: very memorable.  I bet he has a long list of stage credits
(anyone out there know).  More singing, more singing!
Cathy
From: ranck@joesbar.cc.vt.edu (Wm. L. Ranck)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.northern-exp
Subject: Re: Holling sings
Date: 6 Jan 93 19:53:52 GMT
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

Tim Kresse (kresse@helios.phy.ohiou.edu) wrote:
: and has a great singing role with the "Slaves, Molasses and Guns" song.
                                                              ^^^^
I haven't seen 1776 in a long time, but I'm pretty sure that is "Rum".
It refers to a very lucrative trade triangle that the Southern colonies
didn't want to lose.
--

*******************************************************************************
* Bill Ranck                                          ranck@joesbar.cc.vt.edu *
* Computing Center at Virginia Tech, not Vermont ----------------------^^     *
*******************************************************************************
Newsgroups: alt.tv.northern-exp
From: H. Nunes <hwnunes@leland.stanford.edu>
Subject: Re: Who Was The Big Bad Wolf?
X-Xxmessage-Id: <A76F332D7C0200F0@naranja-pc-175.stanford.edu>
X-Xxdate: Tue, 5 Jan 93 12:44:29 GMT
Organization: CaveMakers, Inc.
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d17
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 93 20:44:29 GMT

In article <scs.726261843@wotan.iti.org> Steve Simmons, scs@iti.org
writes:
>peterbi@microsoft.com (Peter Biddle) writes:
>
>>I KNOW that voice--I just can't place it.  Anybody catch who it
>>was and what they have done before?
>
>Wasn't it the darker-haired of the gay couple?  Sorry, can't recall
>his name.

Wasn't it Robert Nadir?
Newsgroups: alt.tv.northern-exp
From: sorsha@next02wor.wam.umd.edu (Laurie Beth Brunner)
Subject: Re: Chris on the Wonder Years
Reply-To: sorsha@wam.umd.edu
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 22:46:41 GMT

Roger Walls writes
> While flipping through the channels over the Christmas weekend, I
> stopped when I heard the familar voice of Chris in the morning. 
> Imagine my surprize when a very young John Savage was looking over
> his sholder. 				^^^^^^^^^^^


Um...it's FRED Savage. :-)

--
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Send burnt offerings to....."If love is a grenade,.........Ahead groove......
..sorsha@wam.umd.edu......I'll pull the pin." B-52's....factor five! -Holly..
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Newsgroups: alt.tv.northern-exp
From: schumach@stortek.com (Kurt Schumacher)
Subject: Re: Long hair vs. Short hair
Reply-To: schumach@stortek.com
Organization: Storage Technology Corp
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 14:42:35 GMT


For most of my life I preferred women with long hair.  In the past few
years, however, the women I've found most attractive on TV have been
Josie on Twin Peaks and Maggie on Northern Exposure.

Kurt
Newsgroups: alt.tv.northern-exp
From: 001201c@axe.acadiau.ca (NATHANIEL FISHER CRAWFORD)
Subject: Please Quit It...
Organization: Acadia University
Distribution: alt.tv.northern-exp
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 21:02:37 GMT

 
 Oh, COME ON, everybody! NE, despite its flaws to die-hard fans, is still 
undisputedly the best show on TV. Okay, I've noticed plenty of technical 
flaws, but to any old joe watching the show should seem BRILLIANT. I will 
admit that the writing has declined in quality somewhat; instead of basing 
plotlines largely on metaphysical and philosophical themes, they now seem to 
be throwing in the odd Whitman quote to keep it up. But the intelligence of 
the show altogether is still incredible. Any more nitpicking of teensy 
character flaws and we'll begin to sound like (gasp) Star Trek fans. Some 
dissapointment with the show is alright to voice, but the complaining going 
on here is making every episode sound like a piece of shit. And compared to 
a episode of, say Picket Fences or L.A. Law, NE is an Emily Bronte novel to 
their Harlequin Romances. Just my dumb lil 2 sense. 
Newsgroups: alt.tv.northern-exp
From: an3149@anon.penet.fi (nomad)
Subject: Last nite show
Organization: Anonymous contact service
X-Anonymously-To: alt.tv.northern-exp
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 15:47:53 GMT

Was I the only one or did others think last nites show sucked.
I don't feel a lot of this seasons shows were as good as past
seasons. Maby their running out of material or spending to much
time on new show. Just hope things pick up in the future.

Nomad
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
To find out more about the anon service, send mail to help@anon.penet.fi.
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From: il@bambam.u.washington.edu (Il Hwan Oh)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.northern-exp
Subject: Re: 1/4 episode: YUCK
Date: 6 Jan 1993 20:59:24 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Tacoma
Distribution: world
Reply-To: iho@cac.washington.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: bambam.u.washington.edu

m4safran@student.business.uwo.ca (Melissa Safran) writes:
> il@bambam.u.washington.edu (Il Hwan Oh) writes:
> > m4safran@student.business.uwo.ca (Melissa Safran) writes:
> > 
> > [re:Maggie]
> > > She's usually much more normal than last night.  And why didn't she say 
> > > anything after Ruth-Ann went on about giving birth, cooking and sewing.  
> > > That was a great chance for her to talk about how being a women does not 
> > > necessarily include those things.  Instead, she stared down Joel for no 
> > > reason whatsoever, other than that he is a man.
> > 
> > I disagree.  I think that Maggie really hates all men and needs to find
> > new ways and excuses to do so.  It wasn't really about feminism, it was
> > just another cloak she tried on for a while.  I really like Maggie's
> > character, but I would run the other way if I ever met someone like her.
> 
> How can you say that Maggie doesn't like men after all of the icky stuff 
> she's done with Mike this season?  What about the episode last year with 
> the bear/man?  What about all of her ex-boyfriends?

I'm not positive about this, but I think that she just used her ex-boyfriends
for self gratification and always resented them.  Look at the conversations
she had with them in this season's opener.  She had major difficulties with
each one, emotionally.  It's also possible that her ex-boyfriends drove her
to her current state of man-hating.

The bear/man was her "ideal man" because he wasn't really a man.

I'm still trying to figure out the Maggie and Mike stuff.  So far, the only
theory I have is that Mike is helpless and nonthreatening, not to mention
pitiful (in Maggie's eyes) and is not really male in her book.

> I think that Maggie has general animosity to some men (namely Joel and 
> Maurice) but that she likes men in general.  She's even friends with 
> Chris.  I could go on but I think that these few examples prove that 
> Maggie totally over reacted and just lost it.

I think that she shows animosity to Joel because she's attracted to him
and hates herself for it.  Joel represents the worst qualities in men, in
her mind.

I think her relationship with Maurice is influenced by her emotions toward
her father.  Maurice is overbearing, assuming, and business-minded much
as her father is said to have been.

I'm not saying she's the "villain" on the show.  I'm merely saying she's
just as psychotic as Fleischman is.  She's always felt victimized by the
men in her life (her father, her boyfriends) and that emotion has shaped
her character.

-- 
Il Hwan Oh                              | "You live and learn.
Computer Facilities Manager             |   At any rate, you live."
University of Washington, Tacoma        |            -- Douglas Adams
iho@cac.washington.edu                  | 
Newsgroups: alt.tv.northern-exp
From: mwmv@athena.cas.vanderbilt.edu (Michael Mogensen-Vermillion)
Subject: Re: Where was Marilyn?
Organization: Vanderbilt University Mathematics Department
Distribution: alt
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 22:50:48 GMT

In article <1993Jan11.162159.20527@b23a.b23a.ingr.com> alfa@b23a.b23a.ingr.com (Laura Walker) writes:
>Chris' tirades annoy me most of the time, but he does have a few shining 
>moments.  Most of which are short & sweet.  The way he talked to the kid
>in the chapel & most especially his last quote.
>
>BTW: I'm not very fond of Mike either, but I attribute that to the writers.
                                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Where do you think Chris and his dialog come from?  Or for that matter,
Joel, Maggie, or anyone else on this show?
Newsgroups: alt.tv.northern-exp
From: sorsha@next02wor.wam.umd.edu (Laurie Beth Brunner)
Subject: Re: Long hair vs. Short hair
Reply-To: sorsha@wam.umd.edu
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 22:59:43 GMT

Gordon Wong writes> 
> 
> On the 12/28 repeat episode of NEXP, Maggie was getting a haircut with Joel
> watching. Joel was commenting that Maggie's hairstyle reminded him of Dorothy
> Hamill.

You know, when I thought about that comment, I remembered that Dorothy
Hamill's hair was quite a bit longer than Maggie's.  In fact, her hair
was a "wedge cut," and would swing around a bit when she skated.  It was 
fuller on the bottom than Maggie's.


Sorsha
--
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Send burnt offerings to....."If love is a grenade,.........Ahead groove......
..sorsha@wam.umd.edu......I'll pull the pin." B-52's....factor five! -Holly..
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
From: erxleben@ece.arizona.edu (Wayne Erxleben)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.northern-exp
Subject: Chris' closing monologue 1/12
Date: 12 Jan 93 23:34:51 GMT
Reply-To: erxleben@ece.arizona.edu (Wayne Erxleben)
Distribution: world,local
Organization: University of Arizona Dept. of Electrical and Computer Engineering

In article <MAS.93Jan12110801@porgy.jpl.nasa.gov>,
mas@porgy.jpl.nasa.gov (Marc A. Sarrel) writes:

|> Simon turned out to be a woman.  I also was kind of insulted by
Chris'
|> closing monologue.  Was he saying that men _need_ women to be
|> complete and fulfilled?  I might expect something like this from
|> Maurice, but not from Chris.

Oh well, I kind of liked the closing monologue/poem.  Was it a quote
or an original?  In either case, could someone post the words please?
I was thinking that I would like to read it to someone.

Regarding the question of whether or not men _need_ women to be
complete
and fulfilled, I don't feel energetic enough right now to jump into the
debate that's bound to begin on this topic, and frankly don't want to
think about it too much as it's too closely related to (personal)
events
that occurred during the weekend just ended.


Wayne