From: darice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Fred Rice)
Subject: Re: repression of women
Organization: Monash University, Melb., Australia.
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 12:24:37 GMT

In <1992Sep8.144149.18953@sei.cmu.edu> psc@sei.cmu.edu (Peter Capell) writes:

>1) When I consider how most men are, how ravenous we are, how rude and
>sexually over concerned we are, I think the full-length chador makes perfect
>sense--"out of sight, out of mind" as they say here.  I mean that I think if I
>were a woman who understood the nature of men's minds, I would want to wear a
>chador just to keep the playing field equal.  For all men like to criticize
>women for their hormonal instability and moodiness, I have never seen a group
>more poisoned by their own hormonal juices, or prejudiced by their emotions
>than men.  Women working in the U.S. know this well.

>2) Unfortunately this perspective leaves one half of the equation, namely the
>woman herself.  It is quite apparent that the chador (and roosaree) have been
>imposed upon the women of the middle east not by Allah, but by men and men
>alone.  "Gar nigah dareh man on ast..."  Indeed, this first line of the poem
>says something near to the heart.  I know my God is the God that wants, above
>all, for humans to decide for themselves.  God wants us to choose what to do
>in the face of challenges, not to run from them.  To cover a woman because you
>are too weak to face the challenge of your own rampant sexuality is to run
>from the challenge that (frankly) I think yogis, sufis, buddhists and taoists
>handle much better than the run of the lot of moslems.    

"Prevention is better than cure..."
This could be said to be a principle important to the requirement of
modest dress in Islam.  Better to prevent the pathways that may lead to
sexual immorality first.  Of course, this can be taken to ridiculous
degrees - the correct degree to take this is specified by Islamic
teachings and the Prophet's (s.a.w.) example.

>3) I am about to make a very American, prejudiced remark: it is our
>observation here that Iranian men/boys, upon coming to the U.S., many times
>become very licentious.  More than one American woman has told me of episodes
>with presumptuous Iranian men attempting to "mount me before we even left the
>party."  Now I am hardly one to criticize, because without my fairly carefully
>honed sense of restraint, this is my first impulse as well.  Nonetheless,
>knowing what I do know of the extreme of restraint in your culture*, I would
>say these anecdotal reports probably have *some* legitimacy, that is, they are
>somewhat accurate and indicative of a certain subset of behaviors of younger
>Iranian men towards American women (esp. upon arrival to this grandiose
>playground with call the U.S. of A).  I also think the reports indicate an
>*extreme* flux of repressed sexual energy that would otherwise be considered
>unnacceptable to express in the main at home.* And I think the fact that many
>of you consider American women to be whores in the first place doesn't help
>matters.  

*If* what you say is true, I disagree with your interpretation.  Men who
have been raised in a culture in which modest dress is valued, clearly
don't know what kind of behaviour is expected when confronted with a
situation in which sexuality is overtly displayed.  On the other hand,
of course American men realize what behaviour is expected of them in American 
culture in this situation because they grew up watching it on television. 
To somehow conclude that American men are therefore more moral, as you
seem to imply, is therefore ridiculous.  Because 90% (I'm guessing) of 
American men have premarital/extramarital sex, and grew up knowing the
expected behaviour in their culture, whereas considerably less Iranian
men (I'm guessing too, but I'm sure it's true) indulge in this
behaviour, how can you conclude that somehow American men are morally
superior?  I think your logic is flawed. 

>The point of my saying this is that based on my own informal observation and
>data-gathering over the past 12 years, it is my opinion that Iranian women are
>being forced to cover themselves because of the weaknesses of Iranian
>men--undoubtedly the same weaknesses we American men have, only we're too
>stupid to have thought of actually wrapping them up in black cloth--an
>interesting approach to an old and nagging problem-- :-). ...it sure must
>"take the edge off" anyway.  ...but when I think about it... you never know
>what you're getting... :-) 

>And so why don't the men cover themselves too? Seems a little unbalanced, no?

Men are also required to dress modestly in Islam.  Both men and women
are required to cover a region of their body defined as their "`awra".
It is just that the extent of the body defined as `awra is more for
women.  The principle is identical; it is just the degree which
differs.

 Fred Rice
 darice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au   

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