From: inkblot@leland.Stanford.EDU (Thomas Calvin Cannon)
Subject: Re: Being a Master? (PLUS UNFINISHED SAGAT GUIDE!!)
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 05:08:25 GMT

In article <BzA2CF.H7C@news.cso.uiuc.edu> skillian@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Seth James Killian) writes:
>jnishina@nyx.cs.du.edu (John Nishinaga) writes:

[discussion about what a MASTER is deleted]

>
>	I must disagree here.  While doing everything you are supposed to and
>	knowing all the counters along with an excellent sense of timing are
>	certainly a part of it, we have a _lot_ of these types at UIUC.  You
>	can watch them play a "perfect" round, they will not have made any 
>	mistakes that you could name, but they will lose.  Case in point:
>	Master Sagat's tend to be the ones who do all their moves seemingly
>	perfectly, they do not throw FB foolishly, they have excellent timing, 
>	and the "deep" TU as well as mastery over any other technique you 
>	could concievably test for.  I can beat these guys with Ryu, who IMO,
>	is at a character disadvantage in this match up.  How?  I think there
>	is a certain quality of utter unpredictability which is essential to 
>	win consistently.  A lot of Guile's are perfect pattern Guile's (this
>	is not so much to say that they play a set pattern, they are just 
>	unimaginative) they land combo's perfectly, they know all the spacings
>	and priorites, yet sometimes you may see somebody walk in and trash 
>	them.  What did he do?  It is very difficult to put your finger on, but
>	I think it is just a sort of "craziness".  You should see some of the
>	places like this.  You go in, and everyone is nearing perfect executin
>	of every technique, matches are always close, and a couple of them are
>	just slightly better than the others.  I have an easy time with these 
>	types in general, for no reason I could ever hope to put into words.
>	This has not been very coherent, I just thought I had to say that 
>	total mastery of techniques and perfect timing alone do not a master
>	make.

Then, by your own definition, these "master" Sagats that you play are not
indeed masters.  They are just great technicians.  I maintain that there
are VERY few Sagat masters out there, and I am certain that I've never 
played one.  After mastering Ryu and "almost" mastering Guile (too technical,
as you mentioned) I'm now playing Sagat exclusivly, with the intention of
mastering him as well.  I think that a _mastered_ Sagat may be the most
powerful force in the game, losing only to Bison.  Someone mentioned the
posting of a Sagat strategy guide, so here's what I've learned so far....


The following is a mini-Sagat Guide, compiled by my rather limited play
of Sagat at this point.  If this doesn't toot your horn, feel free to skip
the rest of this post.  If anyone out there is making up a Sagat Guide, 
feel free to use this in any way you see fit.

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1) USING (and not using) TIGER UPPRCUT
--------------------------------------

For Sagat to be effective, he has to know when it's "safe" to use the TU
(i.e. when he won't be forced to trade damage).  A Sagat who trades
damage too much will eventually lose.  In general, I've found that nearly
all jumping opponents can be taken out by either a TU, or a standing
roundhouse.  So when do you use which?  I use the TU whenever possible,
because it does more damage.  But here are the situations in which a trade
is likely, so it's better to use the standing roundhouse.

i)  when your opponent jumps from close in.  If your opponent doesn't have
    enough room to hit the ground (assuming he doesn't attack), he's too
    close to get a 'clean' TU.  If he's REALLY close, run under and throw 
    (tough with a +6 foot character!) Otherwise, use standing roundhouse.

ii) high priority air attacks.  These are attacks which more often then not
    tend to trade with a TU, despite your placement and timing.  There's
    really no way to determine what moves these are, short of trial and
    error.  Thus far, i've identified Blanka's and Chun Li's jumping 
    forward kicks as anti-TU attacks.  If your ahead, go for a deep TU, you
    may get lucky.  If it's close, stick with a standing roundhouse.

***NOTE***
I have yet to find an air attack (short of the Barcelona Backdrop (tm))
that cannot be taken out by a close standing roundhouse or a far away
deep TU.  This may be because I havn't played Sagat for too long, but it
seems to me that he's got one hell of an ground to air defense.

2) USING YOUR RANGE, NOT HIS
----------------------------

Besides Dhalsim, Sagat easily has the best range in the game.  Use it to
your advantage.  Masters will recognize that there is a certain
placement (which I call the zone) of your character in which you have the 
advantage over your opponent.  This zone may change, depending on who you're 
fighting.  For example, the zone against Guile is the placement of Ryu/Ken 
such that Ryu's jumping attack will take priority over any normal move that 
Guile can execute (like a spinning backhand).  If Ryu's outside of his zone and
he jumps over a sonic boom (seeking a counter attack), Guile will knock
him out of the sky.  Inside his zone, Ryu get's the hit, placing him on
the offensive.  So how about Sagat?  Well, because of his longer reach,
Sagat's zone is a bit further away from his opponent than other characters.
Sagat's zone is a little over 1/2 the screen length. Assuming Sagat is
playing Ryu, from his zone, Sagat can...

i)   Jump over a fireball (without anticipating) and smack Ryu with a
     jumping roundhouse

ii)  Position himself for a deep TU if Ryu jumps in

iii) CAN NOT be comboed if Ryu anticipates a firebird.

The whole point behind this discussion is this: Sagat's got big, long legs,
and because of that, when you're in your zone, your opponent probably
_isn't_ in his, giving you the advantage.


3)FIGHTING STYLES AND/OR PATTERNS
---------------------------------

i) Annoy them to death (or) defensive style
                            ---------------
This is basically the Sagat analog of Ryu/Ken's fireball DP pattern.  In
this style, Sagat throws nothing but low tigers.  (Against characters with
body attacks you should throw an occasional high tiger to keep them honest)
The point is to keep the opponent _far_ away from you, making sure that the
only way he can advance is by jumping in.  When he does jump in, you swat
him out of the air with a deep TU.  The style is brainless, and is easily
broken by a creative opponent, but it can be a good cornering trap (read, 
_good_, not unstoppable).  The style _is_ useful when your opponent is 
sitting in his 'zone', and you want to get him out of it.  Because of Sagat's
long range, this usually also puts you in _your_ zone.  Once you're in your
zone (and you're playing against masters) this strategy is best abandoned.
Really, it's only good against newbies and people who don't play against
Sagat often.

ii) Offensive Style (if anyone has nifty names for these, e-mail me)
-------------------

Offensive is nearly opposite of defensive style.  The point of the 
defensive style is to keep your opponent out of his zone.  The focus of the
offensive style is to stay inside both your zones, giving neither player a
clear advantage.  IMHO this style is more fun to play, because of it's 
faster pace and unpredicatbility.  NOTE:  This style does NOT work against
Zangief!!!!  Here, you never want the distance between yorself and your 
opponent to exceed one of Sagat's bodylengths (about) =).  The point here
is to keep your oppoent blocking....don't let him breath!  Point blank
low tigers and jab tiger uppercuts are good for keeping him edgy.  Just
freestyle it.  I'm still pretty new to this style with Sagat, and i'm
not sure on it's effectiveness.  I do know that it's a blast to play, though
it isn't as effective against Ryu/Ken due to their invunerable DP.

iii  Mixed Style
----------------

Of course, this is the one that I play the most, and which gets the best
results.  This is the'craziness' that Seth spoke of above.  Basically, 
alternate between the two basic styles outlined above.  You switch styles
according to the given situation.  If your opponent has a charge built up,
stay in defensive style for a bit, and knock off a few ticks of damage.
Once he loses his charge, jump in (you should be in your zone), and barrage
him with combos.  Stay in his face, and don't let him get a charge going.
(i.e.:jumping attacks mixed in to make him stand up and block)  IF he's 
stubborn, and inisist on recharging, start the defensive style again.

If your opponent is a Ryu/Ken fanatic, avoid fireball wars.  Rather, jump
(or tiger knee if jumping will take you too far) into your zone, and
smack him next time he throws a fireball.  If he stops, start up defensive
style.  After taking off some ticks due to blocking, (or a TU) Ryu/Ken
may try the old fireball war again.  Don't do it.  Hop right back into your
zone and wait. ;)

Pretty soon, you'll start to 'feel' when it's about time to go in for the
kill.  There's really no perfect guide to say when to use what style, if
there was, it'd just be another (more complicated) pattern.  What i've 
outlined above is just a starting point.  Go have fun. ;)

***ONE ONTE ON COMBOS***

Sagat really only has three combos.  They are listed below

Flying roundhouse + Standing short + Tiger knee (3 or 4 hits)
Flying roundhouse + crouched jab   + low tiger
Flying roundhouse + crouched jab   + TU

These are in their most typical forms (the easiest button presses), but
since the standing short/crouched short/crouched jab are interchangable,
mix up your combos.  Your opponent will have a much tougher time if he's
not certain what move will show up at the end.  I have a friend who's
Vega love to hop over the firebird part of my combos (this is possible if 
not in the corner and the rest of the combo is blocked).  Imagine his 
surprise when my crouched jab was followed by a tiger knee!  So, don't
be plain...put on a show.

---
T. Cannon

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That's it for now...I'm learning pretty quickly, so his could become
dated real fast.  All comments are welcome, but no flames please,
I'm admitting that I'm not a _SAGAT_ master, and that this may contain
errors.

--
T. Cannon

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