Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Arrow number Two ...
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 19:31:00 -0500

> A lot of folks seem to be confused why I would be concerned
> about the restriction on pentacles, since it applies equally
> to Christians and Jews and Muslims and Pagans, all of whom
> have, at one time or another, used the pentacle in some religious
> way.
 
> They've even argued that since the ban applies to everyone,
> it's not discriminatory.
 
> I disagree.
 
I don't think anyone has ever seriously argued otherwise.  Most writers concede
that:
 
1) pentacles and swastikas are period
2) pentacles and swastikas are documentable in armoury
3) pentacles and swastikas represented vastly different things in
   period than they do now.
 
So why can't we use them in *registered* armoury in the SCA?  Because of one
more element most writers also agree on:
 
4) mundanes instantly equate pentacles with 'satanism' and swastikas
   with 'nazis'.
 
I think it's safe to assume that most readers will see the SCA's overall desire
to be seen in a positive light and recognize that 'satanists' and 'nazis' are
not universally beloved of the world at large... <g>
 
*We* may know that these symbols have different meanings, some swastikas predate
Hitler by several (hundred) years, and that not all pagans sacrifice infants
under a full moon to the tune of heavy metal muzac. These are public
misconceptions we can't hope to kill overnight.  However much we may wish it
were otherwise, we have to exist in a world filled with prejudice and ignorance.
It just isn't realistic to think we'll be able to educate the entire public to
the other possible meanings of various 'well known' symbols, so we take the
prudent course and don't use them _officially_ in the SCA.
 
> As a Pagan, I take great pride in the work that has been
> accomplished to regain acceptance of the religious symbols
> which are particular to my tradition.  I am sorry to hear
> that a group with whom I have some interest in interacting
> has chosen to ban the use of one of these symbols.
 
As public acceptance increases, it may be possible to lift the ban, but I
wouldn't count on it happening soon.  There is still too much potential for
damage to the SCA, IMHO.  There are simply too many people ready to immediately
associate the SCA with activities that we don't wish to be associated with as it
is (There is at least one new SCA member nearby no longer living at home
basically because a parent asked the local PD about the 'SCA' and was told it
was a 'cult of devil worshippers'.  Misunderstandings are tough enough to deal
with as it is...)
 
BTW, my favorite instance of a non-pagan popularly 'acceptable' use of the
pentacle is one that few people notice. Ever see a CMH (Congressional Medal of
Honor)? It's basically an inverted pentacle suspended from a ribbon... Context
does wonders for perceptions, eh? ;)
 
> That still doesn't make me feel any more comfortable about
> coming to an event where folks are standing around with
> penants and shields bearing any number of symbols which are
> heavily identified with the crusaders who destroyed so much
> of my religion's heretage -- especially since I am forbidden
> to bear a symbol which proudly proclaims the advancing
> recovery of the folk traditions of ancient europe.
 
I can see where there could be some concern over crosses, except that banning a
non-blatant use of a cross as a field divider as opposed to a clearly religious
symbol would severely limit the possibilities of heraldry. Crosses of one form
or another can be associated with more than a few different religions as well as
being damned convenient for slicing up the field of a device...  I would have to
argue that the limited use of crosses in ambiguous usages is just too
impractical to regulate -- despite any possibility of discriminatory practice.
 
> I'm also curious how your citizendry respond when someone
> wears as personal adornment a symbol which has been officially
> banned in heraldry.
 
From the numbers of assorted religious symbols I've observed at SCA events, it
doesn't seem to be a big problem...  At no time has the SCA (that I know of)
attempted to regulate personal attire beyond requesting an _attempt_ at period
garb.  Personal jewelry is just that -- personal.
 
> However, for your organization to specifically ban a symbol
> which has been claimed by a modern religion (sp: Wicca, and
> indirectly by Pagans in general), brings to mind many questions
 
In fairness, the SCA bans *all* blatantly religious symbols from heraldry as
well as those deemed inherently 'offensive' (based on the world at large).
 
> Face it.  Your executive body has banned the use of a symbol
> which some of your membership hold very dear and in high
> regard.  The reasons for banning it were, in the humble opinion
> of myself and apparently others, inadequate considering the
> apparent bigotry in identifying the pentacle as a symbol of
> evil.
 
It's a necessary evil considering we have to coexist within the 'real' world
which has a nasty habit of being far less tolerant than the SCA.  It is notable
that there are *lots* of Wiccans and other assorted pagans in the SCA.  Plus a
healthy dash of Christians, Orthodox Jews, and practicing agnostics -- personal
faiths are *not* a stumbling block in the SCA <g>.
 
Some limits have to be drawn in SCA officialdom -- the upshot is that the
symbols you hold dear happen to be very misunderstood in the 'real' world and
the SCA can't afford to weather the association, IMHO. I personally don't think
it's _altogether_ fair, but I can see the necessity behind it (the world isn't
altogether fair).
 
> No, I don't think this is necessarily "a fight worth
> fighting compared to our society's problems", but I will not
> join an organization which censures particular religious symbols
> and then acts baffled when folks get upset.
 
As mentioned, *all* clearly religious symbols are banned from SCA heraldry, not
just pagan symbols.  There *is* a bit more leeway in some cases due to popular
recognition of some symbols more than others, but the intent is clear and, I
think, honorable.
 
> Just what are your means for seeking redress for actions
> of your executive committee?  Surely you must have some
> way to question the decisions of your executives?  With this
> much outcry, how did such an unpopular decision get approved?
 
This is a very old discussion and will continue to go on for along time, I'm
sure.  The concensus, as I have come to understand it, has alwasy been thus:
clearly religious symbols are out & we have to make concessions for the reality
of peoples' perceptions of the SCA.
 
Macsen ap Rhys of Wyvernhall

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca