HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 23:27:39 -0500 
From: David Schroeder <ds4p+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: SCA's Secret Handshake?

Good gentles,

Bjalfi asks:

>Okay, everybody, so what's the SCA secret handshake?  (Not the Laurel
>handshake, the Pelican handshake, the Herald handshake, or any of the
>subgroups--I want to hear what's the secret handshake for the WHOLE of
>the SCA.)

  Okay, how 'bout a flick of the wrist for a simulated sword-blow,
  accompanied by a smile and the word "Light!"  ???

Take care -- Bertram

+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Bertram of Bearington                                      Dave Schroeder
Debatable Lands/AEthelmearc/East               Carnegie Mellon University
INTERNET: ds4p@andrew.cmu.edu                         412/731-3230 (Home)
+------------------------ PREME * Press On * PREME ---------------------+
      "He indulged in every excess, yes in each licentious whim..."
From: schuldy@progress.COM (Mark Schuldenfrei)
Subject: Re: Heraldic questions...
Organization: Progress Software Corp.
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 14:28:12 GMT

Responding to a few of the many comments of Torric inn Bjorn
     This would seam to be a great idea at frist glance, but as was stated 
     earlyer, you can find lot's of examples of truly awful heraldry in 
     period. If we were to allow ALL of this to pass we would not only be 
     registering things that are "not in the spirit of good heraldry", but 
     (given the examples of the SCA submissions that have been returned in 
     the past) we would stand the chance of grossly amplifing all of the 
     "worst" aspects of period heraldry (instead of trying to only 
     recreate the best parts of the middle ages). 

You don't find it a bit sad or ironic, that our rules for heraldry
specifically forbid documentable period practices, even some which
were common, as opposed to exceptional?  Pity.
     
     Yes this office does require a lot of time & paper, but you must 
     remember that this is a volenter orginization, and those people would 
     not be spending all of that time if they didn't enjoy it! 

Simply put, not so (speaking as an example of one).  Perhaps I do have
an overwhelming sense of duty, but sometimes the paperwork is the cost
I pay for doing other things that I prefer.

	Tibor
--
Mark Schuldenfrei (schuldy@progress.com)
[I'm just showin' you my opinions: this ain't a gift]
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Subject: Re: 8th century persona
Reply-To: whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 18:18:41 GMT

In article <1gt0kvINN3p5@agate.berkeley.edu> cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu () writes:
>and I believe there's one on Building your Own Anglo-Saxon.  If you can't
>wait till then, e-mail me and I'll see if I can give you some tips.   (I
>live in the latish ninth century myself and Charlemagne died about the
>time I was born, but things haven't changed that much except for all these
>pesky Vikings roaming about.....)

But my dear...!  Those are simple, honest traders oout to make a
living!  Life is tough in the north and there's not enough land to go
around.  They've got to make a living *somehow*....

	--Hal (just a simple Dane...)

        Hal Ravn, Province of the Mists, West Kingdom
        Wilson H. Heydt, Jr.,  Albany, CA 94706,  510/524-8321 (home)
-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |            You!
510-823-5447                 |    Out of the Gene Pool!
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Rattan Sword-making
From: vnend@nudity.UUCP (David W. James)
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 92 16:00:42 -0500
X-Mailer: Fernmail 1.1

Therion <HZS@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
> Parlan comments on my shrink-tubing question:
> >I too use shrink tubing on my swords.  I find it about
> >doubles the life of a stick to around 4 months.
  
> A rattan sword only lasts you four months? Good Gods, man, how hard are you
> folks hitting each other?  (only 1/2 smiley here.)

It is worse than that.  He said that it *doubles* the life of a sword.
Note that he may be using rattan that has had the husk removed.  That 
does tend to reduce the life of a sword by a rediculous amount.

Kwellend-Njal
who always uses rattan with the husk still on it.
From: irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Brent Irvine)
Subject: Re: Heraldic references...
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 23:30:38 GMT

In article <DOCONNOR.92Dec14154730@potato.sedona.intel.com> doconnor@sedona.intel.com (Dennis O'Connor) writes:
>
>parr@acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr) writes:
>] Inter library loan is often "strongly discouraged" by librarians,
>] who have limited budgets for such things, and don't want to see
>] it wasted on something "frivolous".  Nor do I blame them.
>
>I've heard that libraries unwilling to loan boks thru inter-library
>loan are often willing to copy specifiy pages if you ask. They
>might charge you for the copies.
>
>Beyond that, for libraries funded by tax dollars, IMHO no reasonable
>request should be turned down because someone thinks it's "frivolous" :
>these libraries exist to serve the public, not some elite group of 
>"serious" researchers. Either anyone should be able to get inter-library
>loan, or no one should, or there should be a reasonable fee. The last
>would be my preference, but it's a matter of your taste in government.

In addition, at universities, they are funded by tax dollars AND your
tuition.

But then again, if you press the issue (unless it is a company library!)
you will probably come to some compromise [especially if the library
is really short of funds].

>
>
>--
>Dennis O'Connor			doconnor@sedona.intel.com


-- 
+-------------------------+-----------------+---------------------------------+
| Brent L. Irvine         | NE PER INGENIUM | The above personal opinions     |
| irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu | MEUM SED DEI    | can be yours too for only $50!  |
+-------------------------+-----------------+---------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: keradwc@rahul.net (Kevin Davis Connery)
Subject: Re: The SCA Religion? ( was: Through a looking glass, darkly)
Organization: Ringworld Engineering
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 03:44:31 GMT

In article <1h00aiINNn7v@agate.berkeley.edu> dgreen@athena (David Greenebaum) writesl
>handshake, the Pelican handshake, the Herald handshake, or any of the
>subgroups--I want to hear what's the secret handshake for the WHOLE of
>the SCA.)

Bjalfi, if we told you, we'd have to kill you.

And neither of us wants that.


Keradwc
                                                 (<g> for the HI)

-- 
Keradwc an Cai                     A Caidan Mistie (or was that a Misty Caidan?)
Kevin Davis Connery                kconnery@isi.com or  keradwc@rahul.net
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: brandon@gauss.math.brown.edu (Joshua Brandon)
Subject: Re: Through a looking glass, darkly
Organization: Brown University Mathematics Department
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 20:22:34 GMT

Lothar did write:

>1) Search for roots - SCA can be an offshoot of "ethnic pride". I think
>that this accounts for a certain number of "unusual" personas, like
>Hungarians, Lithuanians, and some Jewish personas. I know of very few
>East European personas created by people who do not have at least some
>Slavic blood.  

This is admittedly unusual and therefore not strictly relevant, but I do
know an Asian fellow with an unpronouncable *Lithuanian* persona.  I liked
the idea.

Personally, I fall somewhere in between --- as far as I have been able to
identify, all of my ancestry is Ashkenazi Jewish (Eastern & Central
Europe).  I was sick of Ashkenazi history, so I decided to pick something
different, namely Spanish, just because it seemed interesting.  However, I
discover that I really felt more comfortable with a Jewish persona ---
hence Simon, a Marrano (Spanish crypto-Jew), whose background is Sephardic
(Spanish Jewish, as opposed to Ashkenazic.)

			--Simon
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: ilaine@panix.com (Liz Stokes)
Subject: Re: weaving/spinning mailing list?
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 14:18:41 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix & Internet, NYC

In article <Bz3w6J.Lzr@news.cso.uiuc.edu> sjgg6239@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Susan J. Grant) writes:
>Greetings to the Gentles of the Rialto!
>
>I have heard that there is a mailing list for weavers and spinners,
>but I could not find any information in the recently posted FAQ list.
>Can anyone tell me of such a group? I'd love to talk about spinning with
>others who have similar interests. Thank you for any assistance...

	I used to run one called Spindle Shuttle and Needle a couple of years
ago but it didn't survive my loss of net access after graduation. Now that
my access is permanent, I'd be interested in starting it up again if there
is interest.
			-Ilaine

							

-- 
Liz Stokes         | 	Ilaine's E-Z Garb Workshop
Ilaine de Cameron  | 	For this simple t-tunic you will need to spin about
                   | 	6000 yards of wool yarn.  Yes, spinning wheels are
ilaine@panix.com   |    faster. Sorry, no they aren't period for 1066.
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson)
Subject: Re: Through a looking glass, darkly
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 10:00:11 GMT

u883161@postoffice.utas.edu.au (Alex Tewes) writes:

>We only know the richness and variety of the SCA in the Greater Known
>World from photos and the tales of travellers.  In looking at all the photos
>which have made their way down to us, I notice the complete absence of black
>faces.  Why is that?   Is the SCA in some way culture-specific in not being
>interesting to blacks? or is there some prejudice involved?

	Greetings, Milord.  You might ask the former-King Tomeki of Calontir
is there is any prejudice in the SCA.  I have found none, and through my
word and deeds intend to neither find nor promote any.  Tomeki, while I
regret to not know the proper spelling of his name, is a black man and
I noted absolutely no racial words mentioned in regards to him.

>My somewhat limited experience is that SCA folk are liberal in thought and
>deed so I cannot believe that prejudice is the answer.  I understand that 
>blacks make up about 13% of the USA population, if so, why do they appear 
>to be so rare within our ranks?

	I would suggest that there is more to this than just race.  For
example, we know SCA members come from colleges and universities in a
large degree.  There are fewer blacks in these institutions than mere
population density would dictate.  In addition, let us not forget that
the SCA is a hobby, and as such many members have other things that
must occupy their time.  With minorities, these other constraints may
be all the more time-consuming (how would I know?).

	My philosophy is that skin color is no reason to judge a person,
and in the SCA I find this is the majority opinion.  That blacks do not
enjoy the SCA in the same proportion as their population would suggest is
not, I believe, due to racism in general, but rather due to other
activities that demand time from our black friends, and also due to
blacks being under-represented in higher education.  Again, I merely
point out trends as shown at this institution and in the SCA in
general; no racial slurs are intended nor implied.

	Please, let us continue discussion on this subject free of
any racial or other bias; I heve never known either in the SCA, and
I'd rather not have my ideals proven wrong on the Rialto now.

		Erik Aarskog, Axed Root, Calontir

< Dan Sorenson, DoD #1066 z1dan@exnet.iastate.edu viking@iastate.edu >
<  ISU only censors what I read, not what I say.  Don't blame them.  >
<  "This isn't an answer, it's a pagan dance around a midnight fire  >
<   written in intellectual runes." -- Rich Young                    >
From: brockman@euclid.ucsd.edu (Will Brockman)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Crown designs
Date: 12 Dec 92 02:50:28 GMT
Organization: Mathematics @ UCSD

I'm wondering about what would seem to me to be a closely related
topic: What can we say about the other regalia that appear in
depictions of enthroned monarchs?  I'm thinking particularly of
the orb and sceptre which seem to appear regularly, at least
for the English kings.  (If memory serves, the classic portrait
of Richard II which appears on or in any book having anything 
to do with that period shows these, so they are indeed period.)

So I would ask: Are these unique to the English monarchs?  In what
periods are they used?  And how does their use correlate with the
use of the crown?  (In particular, if whenever a king is wearing a 
crown he is also carrying these other items, one might speculate that
the crown is also reserved for high formal occasions.)

I'm in the throes of finals at the moment, or I would attempt
to anwer some of these questions myself; would any others here
on the bridge happen to know?

Guillaume de Fontaine
brockman@math.ucsd.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: HELP WANTED RE KINGDOM AWARDS
From: vnend@nudity.UUCP (David W. James)
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 92 15:54:24 -0500
X-Mailer: Fernmail 1.1

doconnor@sedona.intel.com (Dennis O'Connor) writes:
> So I haven't yet cut into the 4'x12' .063" 6061T6 aluminium sheet
> I bought to make it out of yet. What ? Aluminium ? But that wouldn't
> be authentic ! Maybe not, but once we've red-anodized it ( Mongols
> would have sometimes laquered it ), it will look like it, and be built
> like it, but work much better as SCA armour than the original !

				Sigh.

Kwellend-Njal
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: atterlep@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Cardinal Ximenez)
Subject: Re: Heraldic questions...
Organization: National Association for the Disorganized
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 22:38:28 GMT

parr@acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr) writes:

Kwellend-Njal Kolskeggsson writes:

>>	So many say this, but so few are willing to *do* anything about
>>it.  Why do you think that is?

>Er, because the COA is an entrenched bureaucracy, with power to
>screw around with you to a mild extent, and that you can safely
>avoid dealing with the problem by a) knuckling under and
>submitting and bithching or b) not submitting and bithching?

...

>It's why the COA *has* improved it's act somewhat
>since I joined...Because a bunch of people bitched, and
>did something about it.

  Carolus, you're doing an awful lot of the first and very little of the
second.  I'm sure it's very pleasant for you to sit and complain, but if you
really mean it, why don't you do something productive?  People like Kwellend
and Arval, who are among the many people actively trying to fix the problems
with the CoA, have the same complaints you do.  So do aa number of the members
of the BoD.  Unlike you, however, they're doing something besides bitching.
  At the least, why don't you compose a letter and send it to Laurel and 
Dave Thewlis (the BoD ombudsman for heraldry.)  That way you will have at least
managed to send your thoughts to someone who will try and make a difference,
even if you won't.

>>> BTW: "per saltire or and azure, a cock erect gules beneath
>>>      a chief enarched of the same" 
>>
>>	Nice, other than the line of the chief.
>>
>>Kwellend-Njal Kollskeggsson

>And what, pray tell, is the matter wit the chief?
>Keeping in mind BTW that I should have been able to pass
>"per saltire or and azure, a cock erect gules"\
>by itself, save that the COA requires a ridiculously
>high level of "uniqueness"?

  The problem with the chief is that there are no examples of a "chief
enarched" anywhere in period heraldry.  It wasn't invented until after 1600.
I do agree that you shouldn't have to use the chief at all.

>Betch the Canadian College would pass that device without a
>quiver...

  Yes, but they'd also pass a "DNA double-helix," an "automobile," and any
number of any charges that weren't developed until after our period.  What
you're doing is much like using polyester cloth in a costume and expecting
people to tell you that it's period.

					--Fairfax
From: Godfrey de Shipbrook <jlee@smylex.UUCP>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: HELP! name searching.
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 19:18:18 EST
Organization: Shipbrook Software  (Tampa, FL)

Greetings from Godfrey!

Bjalfi writes:
>
> If anyone reading this list is
> trying to come up with a persona name, PLEASE dig up a copy of the
> Decameron, the Canterbury Tales, Egil's Saga, the Tales of the Thousand
> Nights and a Night, the Song of Roland, or whatever medieval literature
> appeals to you, and read it through paying attention to names you like.
> You can come up with truly lovely stuff that way, which is always a
> Good Thing.

Not only that; you can be entertained, and maybe even learn a little more 
about the period you're interested in for your persona.

+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Net:  Jeff Lee / jlee@smylex.uucp / jlee%smylex.uucp@tscs.tscs.com     |
| SCA:  Lord Godfrey de Shipbrook / Wyvernwood, Trimaris                 |
|       Per pale azure and argent, a clarion counterchanged or and gules |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
    "The only thing that helps me maintain my slender grip on reality
    is the friendship I share with my collection of singing potatoes."
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: asheffie@carr110.alleg.edu (Ann Sheffield)
Subject: Re: real medieval village
Organization: Allegheny College
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 16:46:32 GMT
pellns.alleg.edu!fs7.ece.cmu.edu!crabapple.srv.cs.cmu.edu!cantaloupe.srv.c 
s.cmu.edu!rochester!galileo.cc.rochester.edu!ub!dsinc!spool.mu.edu!agate!g 
arnet.berkeley.edu!cozzlab
From: cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu
Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin (Dorothy J. Heydt, cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu)  
writes:
>In article <1992Dec11.150744.21757@pellns.alleg.edu>  
>asheffie@carr108.alleg.edu (Ann Sheffield) writes:
>>
>>The fascinating story is told in a book called, I think, "Iron-Age Farm:  
>>The Butser Experiment" that I picked up in Britain years ago.
>
>Oh, neat.  If you can find your copy, please let me know the publisher's
>name and address.  That's a book I'd like to have.

The reference is: Reynolds, Peter J., _Iron-Age Farm: The Butser  
Experiment_, Colonnade Books, British Museum Publications Limited, 6  
Bedford Square, London WCIB 3RA, 1979, ISBN 0 7141 8015 7 (paper), ISBN 0  
7141 8014 9 ("cased").

				-Ann Sheffield
				 asheffie@alleg.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Heraldic questions...
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 08:33:15

    Lord Godfrey de Shipbrook wrote:
    
 GD> Certainly it would be extremely beneficial if
 GD> someone would codify the conflict-checking rules into an expert
 GD> system, and thus remove a heavy burden from a great many heralds
 GD> (this, though, would probably necessitate the possession of the
 GD> standard mundane heraldic references in electronic form, which I have
 GD> apprehended is not available at the present time).

 We're working on it, we're working on it. We hope to have a bare-bones
 system available in time for the Known World Heraldic Symposium this
 summer. It will also have a more accurate and up-to-date listing of SCA
 names and armory, plus as many of Lady Triton's consolidations as we can
 pry out of her.

    Tadhg, Obelisk


 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: schuldy@progress.COM (Mark Schuldenfrei)
Subject: Re: Scope of the SCA (was Re: Through a looking glass, darkly)
Organization: Progress Software Corp.
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 14:31:32 GMT

Arval makes reference to "The Scope of the Society".  I have both an
extract of the Governing Documents on that topic, and the full essay
from the Handbook on line, and can send them out as needed.

You should note that the essay Arval referred to at the end of his
post, is not considered "Official", even though it is published in
the most offical book there is, and even though the Steward of the
Society wrote it.  On the other hand, it is an excellent snapshot
of how our Most Official Authorities (:-) seriously feel.

	Tibor
--
Mark Schuldenfrei (schuldy@progress.com)
[I'm just showin' you my opinions: this ain't a gift]
From: cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu ()
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Sources for Rattan
Date: 16 Dec 1992 18:56:31 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu


In article <1992Dec16.150257.4681@edsi.plexus.COM> jen@edsi.plexus.COM (Jennifer Thompson) writes:

[wants rattan either in the Midwest or by mail]

The Caning Shop
926 Gilman St.
Berkeley CA 94710
510:527-5010
1-800-544-3373
About $20 for a 10-foot length of weapons-grade rattan.
They do mail order.



Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin		Dorothy J. Heydt
Mists/Mists/West			UC Berkeley
Argent, a cross forme'e sable		cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu

Disclaimer:  UCB and the Cozzarelli lab are not responsible for my
opinions, and in fact I don't think they know I have any.
From: ccjason@othello.ucdavis.edu (Jason Gabler)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: LATIN/VULGATE Bibles
Keywords: latin,vulgate,bible
Date: 9 Dec 92 06:12:00 GMT
Organization: Computing Services, UC Davis

Does ANYONE have ANY idea where I can get a copy of a Latin/Vulgate bible?

I would prefer one that is just like any regular bible, not something
tremendous like the hexeglot or  an interlinear.  Just a normal bible, except
that it is in Latin instead of English.  I have seen a few but the people whom
I know who have them, got them from sources unreachable by myself.

ANY help on this would be greatly appreciated.

Please e-mail with you answers.  I will post a summary.


Vale,
		jase

,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.
`  Jason Gabler - Information Technology - University of California, Davis   '
'    ccjason@hamlet.ucdavis.edu - hamlet!ccjason - jygabler@ucdavis.edu      `
`                 "Do I WHAT?!" - Golda, Fiddler on the Roof                 '
''`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'
From: ARCHER@utkvm1.utk.edu (T. Archer)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: rattan sword-making
Date: 14 Dec 92 22:55:14 GMT
Organization: University of Tennessee

In article <1992Dec13.222306.1@camins.camosun.bc.ca> comptec92024@camins.camosun.bc.ca writes:
>I guess what I trying to say is not to put the onus for safty on the weapon 
but>on the people use them.  

I have been singing this song in the Second Amendment Civil Liberties Chorus 
for YEARS, to no avail.  People want to hold inanimate objects responsible, 
rather than wielders.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Vote Dempublican, it's easier than thinking.
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Newsgroups: rec.org.sca