From: ray@philmtl.philips.ca (Ray Dunn)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Mr. Walker's comments about welfare in Ms. and Ala.
Date: 9 Oct 92 21:47:13 GMT
Organization: Not Philips

In referenced article, silva@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Holly Silva) writes:
>	Suzanne's not always coherent objection to his offhand mention
>of welfare and poverty in Alabama and Mississippi stems from the regularity
>with which people who know nothing of the South feel free to accept
>a rather Hollywood view of the place as valid truth.

Did Holly or Suzanne actually *read* Graham's posting.  Here's what he
said:

>This rather sick flaunting of [gln's] "wealth" would be greatly appreciated
>by the very poor families up in Northern NY state, Alabama, Missippi,
>etc. The poor up her have no health care, live off welfare, and
>continual drives are run to provide food for the food banks. ......
>I would suggest that you spent some time in the south Bronx, the coal
>mining communities of West Verginia, or inner city Liverpool (and this
>is to ignore the gross poverty of the third world that both Western
>Europe and the US are were willing to accept provided that their god
>given Capitalist economics are not touched by this blight).

From this general condemnation of poverty in the world, he should get
attacked for daring to say that there's poverty in Mississippi & Alabama?

Holly again:
>	If you require complete coherence on this subject Aengus, I'll
>be happy to Oblige.
>	Suzanne probably disagrees with his facile assumption of Alabama
>and Mississippi as 'good' choices to cite in a rebuttal to Gary's
>ultra-nationalist posts. Implicit in that choice is the same set of
>tired assumptions about the South which have been promoted by the
>mainstream American media for 20-30 years now, assumptions regarding
>its backwardness and bigotry.

I think Suzanne is demonstrating her bigotry very well in her remarks on
the poor, but where did _Graham_ mention any of this?  Holly it is _you_
who is bringing up these subjects.  Whether the south in general is
bigotted or not is not the point.  Is there _poverty_ there, or not?  Do
these places deserve to be on Grahams list?

>	In Ireland, it is hidebound adherence to old ways of 
>doing things and grudging resistance to change, irrespective
>of the fact that change is absolutely necessary if they want their
>children to find employment. In the South, a similar resistance
>to change is commonly cloaked in ultra-nationalism and race bigotry.

Now I'm _really_ confused!

You go from complaining about the south being labelled as backward and
biggotted, to _stating_ that not only _is_ the south resistant to change
but that the resistance is hidden under its bigotry.

Holly, this is your "complete coherent" response?

>>I never used kill files in scc, but I wish I had succumbed to the temptation
>>the first time I saw *smile* (*wince*) in a post.
>>
>	That's because you're the sort of bloody asshole who refuses to
>appreciate or understand a Southern woman's tendency to sweeten every-
>thing she says, particularly when what she says might be controversial.

I find it fascinating how anyone can believe that a controversial statement
can be "sweetened" by a smile.  Either the statement or the smile is
insincere.  It's a _horrible_ habit!

The _worst_ connotations are associated with someone who smiles as they
"put the knife in".

>Your ethnocentricity is absolutely appalling. And your petty defense of
>Graham's less blatant ethnocentricity is equally asinine.

From Graham's general statement about poverty in the world, Holly and
Suzanne pull out their pet states to defend, and now Holly complains of the
ethnocentricity of Graham's camp?  Appalling, indeed!

>|| Holly Silva                 I have nothing terribly clever to say||
>|| Applied Earth Sciences	today.  You're in luck.		     ||

Tempting.  Very tempting.
-- 
Ray Dunn at home        |  Beaconsfield, Quebec  |  Phone: (514) 630 3749
ray@philmtl.philips.ca  |  dunn@cam.org          |  uunet!sobeco!philmtl!ray