HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger)
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: Re: The meaning of "The Trees"
Date: 27 Jan 93 05:53:19 GMT
Organization: Boston University Physics Department

In article <1993Jan26.231215.10201@iscsvax.uni.edu> wipperma9340 writes:

>> Nope. The _maples_ passed a noble law.

>> The relevant lyrics are:

>> So the maples formed a union
>> And demanded equal rights.
>> "These oaks are just too greedy;
>> We will make them give us light."
>> Now there's no more oak oppression,
>> For they passed a noble law,
>> And the trees are all kept equal
>> By hatchet, axe, and saw.

>> "They" clearly refers to the maples here.

>Not necessarily true.  Why? 

Because it is only one plural noun to which it could apply. (In case
there is any confusion related to the text in quotes, this is a statement
on the part of the maples.


>        1.  If the trees are "kept equal,"  wouldn't that mean that some outside
>power came to cut them down without referring to the specific type of
>tree. 

No, why? The maples simply cut the "too lofty" oaks down to their size
and keep them there, thereby enforcing equality.

>If the Maples brought equality by cutting down the oaks, they would
>have to cut themselves down as well.  

No, the maples "cut them(the oaks) down to size", as the saying goes.

>        2.  Are you saying that The Maples use hatchets, axes, and saws?  That
>would be quite interesting to see.

Yes. It's an allegory for crying out loud. It's absurd that the maples
could form a union too, ain't it? 

>        3.  Can't the song be interpreted as saying that the two sides were so
>concerned about their own "rights" that they neglected a mutual enemy coming
>from the outside?  Their infighting blinded them to their impending doom.

No, because there is no such enemy mentioned anywhere in the song. It is
clear that the "keeping equal" is the dictate of the "noble law" passed by
(and therefore presumably enforced by) the maples.

>        4.  It would be difficult for Neil to state that "they" were something
>different than the maples; it would have disrupted the flow of the song.[:]
>                "Now there's no more oak oppression
>                 For the humans passed a noble law . . ."

Not really, he would simply have had to add another "stanza" to the
lyrics to make it clear who "they" were, but since "they" are the maples
he doesn't have to. And if he wanted to keep the number of stanzas he
could have done what you've done above to keep the "flow" by making the
second line "Humans passed a noble law", but he didn't because he was
talking about the maples. (all MHO of course).

>Perhaps Neil implied the "they" to be something other than what was previously
>mentioned throught the song.

I strongly doubt it.

Gregg


-- 
Gregg Jaeger (jaeger@buphy)  Dept. of Physics (and Philosophy), Boston Univ.
"You see, the quantum mechanical description is in terms of knowledge" -Peierls
"One can _not_ put the psi-function... in place of the... thing" -Schroedinger
                   _De gustibus non disputandum_, NOT!
From: jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger)
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: Re: The meaning of "The Trees"
Date: 26 Jan 93 02:01:22 GMT
Organization: Boston University Physics Department

In article <1993Jan25.184933.10157@iscsvax.uni.edu> wipperma9340@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:

>Neil said that "The Trees" is "An allegorical metaphor on human behavior."

Which behavior is that? 


Gregg




-- 
Gregg Jaeger (jaeger@buphy)  Dept. of Physics (and Philosophy), Boston Univ.
"You see, the quantum mechanical description is in terms of knowledge" -Peierls
"One can _not_ put the psi-function... in place of the... thing" -Schroedinger
                   _De gustibus non disputandum_, NOT!
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
From: moleface@next09cville.wam.umd.edu (Moleface)
Subject: Re: 2112 ending
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 05:44:26 GMT

In article <1jngrqINNfqa@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> intruder@cats.ucsc.edu (Isaac  
N. Truder) writes:
> 
>  > If you read the lyrics it says-
>  > 
>  > V. Oracle: The Dream
>  > ... "I guess it was a dream, but even now it all seems so vivid to
>  > me.  Clearly yet I see the beckoning hand of the oracle as he
>  > stood at the summit of the staircase" ...
>  > ... "I see still the incredible beauty of the sculptured cities
>  > and the pure spirit of man revealed in the lives and works of this
>  > world.  I was overwhelmed by both wonder and understanding as I
>  > saw a completely different way to life, a way that had been
>  > crushed by the Federation long ago.  I saw now how meaningless
>  > life had become with the loss of all these things ..."
>  > 
>  > Notce the how the 'elder race' were crushed by the federation long
>  > ago. So how can this 'elder race' come back and rescue these
>  > people? He sees how life was and how it can never be again.
> 
> Huh?!  I've never heard these "lyrics" you're talking about.  In the
> version *I* have, it's said:

They aren't exactly lyrics.  On the LP's lyric sheet, before each movement  
of the song, Neil gives a little summary for the piece.  This was his $.02  
extra for that movement (I dunno WHY this wasn't included on the CD, but  
oh, well).

Moleface
From: jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger)
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: Re: The Pass
Date: 26 Jan 93 20:08:01 GMT
Organization: Boston University Physics Department

In article <1k36ghINN174@sage.csv.warwick.ac.uk> esuqs@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Mr W J Lynn) writes:
>In article <C1FG2L.3v3@csugrad.cs.vt.edu> mwilson@csugrad.cs.vt.edu (Zaphod Beeblebrox) writes:

>Actually, the bit that gets me in the song is this.

>All of us do time in the gutters,
>dreamers turn to look at the cars.

>What have cars got to do with all this?

The cars are a reward for work. The dreamers are dreaming of their
future careers and the rewards (like cars) that come along with
them; IMHO that's what Neil's getting at (in his capitalist way!)


Gregg




-- 
Gregg Jaeger (jaeger@buphy)  Dept. of Physics (and Philosophy), Boston Univ.
"You see, the quantum mechanical description is in terms of knowledge" -Peierls
"One can _not_ put the psi-function... in place of the... thing" -Schroedinger
                   _De gustibus non disputandum_, NOT!
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 14:53:16 EST
From: <RSB119@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: Re: **Song Wars** (poll)


2112 over Losing It
Xanadu
The Trees
Time Stand Still
From: wipperma9340@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: Re: Rivendell (was Re: ALBUM BOUT)
Date: 24 Jan 93 20:55:46 -0600
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

In article <1993Jan24.235142.9313@wam.umd.edu>, lerxst@wam.umd.edu (K2K2K2K2K2) writes:
 
>   As for these album bouts, here my .02 ducats: it's bullshit. I don't mean
> to flame anyone, but I think each album is better and worse than all the
> other ones, and there is hardly an overall quality that can be given to
> one that can make it superior. Sure, there are things such as sound quality
> (a negative for Signals, let's say), guitar presence, or whatever, but mostly
> I listen to whatever album I feel in the Mood for. Sometimes I can't wait to
> get back from class and crank up the first album. I don't sit there worrying
> about how it was produced or whether it has breakthrough lyrics. I just like it
> Other times, I'll listen to HYF over and over again for hours. 
> Once again, just my humble opinion...

The idea was to get people talking about styles, sound quality, lyricss, etc. 
You don't have to say that one is better than another, or a certain thing is
crap.  It's possible to simply use the bouts thing to compare two albums on a
myriad of qualities without even stating which one is better.

Perhaps I should add the level of Satanic influence as another thing by which
to compare albums.  With Rush there's plenty of that to go around.

Anyway, I think that comparing albums and discussing their respective qualities
says a lot more about something than assigning numbers to songs in that poll
that shows up about once a month.

Yours etc.,

The Analog Kid
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
From: jpm56290@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Duner)
Subject: Re: all about bootlegs
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 06:18:37 GMT

rgrozier@uncc.edu (Richard Rozier) writes:


>In article 1@hamp.hampshire.edu, dtonya@hamp.hampshire.edu () writes:
>>	I have several of the bootlegs from the RTB tour and heard many others
>>and found "Atmospheric" (which is the same as "Over Europe" I believe) has the
  
  I know that this bootleg talk is about CD's, but I just thought I'd throw in
  that I have 2 VIDEO bootlegs of the RTB tour.  Pretty good too.  That's all.


-- 
***IIIII L     IIIII N   N IIIII*********************************************
***  I   L       I   N N N   I            John Meseke (Duner)               *
***IIIII LLLLL IIIII N   N IIIII   email- jpm56290@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu         *
*****************************************************************************
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
From: rgrozier@uncc.edu (Richard Rozier)
Subject: Re: Rush stuff for sale
Reply-To: rgrozier@uncc.edu
Organization: University of NC at Charlotte
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 01:49:05 GMT


In article 1k4atjINNpd5@news.cerf.net, jlang@nic.cerf.net (Jimmy Lang) writes:
>In article <FR1yXB1w165w@cybernet.cse.fau.edu> greg@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (Greg severine) writes:
>>
>>The following Rush items available for sale:
>>   All are auction items with the exception of the videos at the end.
>>   Auction ends on 1/31/93.  Highest bidder will be notified then.
>
>	[ list of stuff deleted.. ]
>
>>    Hope you find something that is of interest...
>>     Please e-mail bids to me on the auction items...
>
>
>I don't know how others feel but someone the words "auction" and "bid"
>and "highest bidder" really saddens me, especially coming from another Rush
>fan.  I guess as an individual, I view this as a "cashing" in on other Rush
>fans.  In the case of the items, I guess that's ok.  Auction them off, make
>some money, but then with the videos, naturally we wouldn't want to auction
>those off, but for $12, we could make many copies which we could sell.  I
>guess here I could see what the underlying motive is.  
>
>Is there any other Rush fan that feels similar?  I'd like to get some other
>fan's thoughts on that.  Greg, this is *NOT* a flame on you, I'm just
>telling you how I feel as a fan about issues and posts like yours.  You too
>are welcome to comment.  I realize there's a demand out there, but how do
>you feel when making postings like that?  
>
>-Jimmy
>-- 
>-Jimmy
>jlang@cerf.net

I agree with you. 

It sounds like good stuff.  I also wonder why Greg is selling these items.

Richard Rozier
UNC Charlotte
From: jm012b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Jeffrey P. Moon)
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: Re: The meaning of "The Trees"
Date: 28 Jan 93 02:43:00 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester - Rochester, New York

In <108333@bu.edu> jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger) writes:

>Nope. The _maples_ passed a noble law.

>The relevant lyrics are:

>So the maples formed a union
>And demanded equal rights.
>"These oaks are just too greedy;
>We will make them give us light."
>Now there's no more oak oppression,
>For they passed a noble law,
>And the trees are all kept equal
>By hatchet, axe, and saw.

>"They" clearly refers to the maples here.

	Whoa, hold on. Are you sure? I am not quite clear on the whole
meaning myself, but I don't think that the maples could possible pass this
law. They were oppressed by the oaks, which would make the listener lead to
believe that the oaks were in charge of the forest grove. Besides, hatchet,
axes, and saws are all human tools, and there is no way that the maples
would have any power to cut down, or opress, the oaks, unless a violent
storm knocked them all down.

	I suspect that this noble law is a human creation, but don't quote
me on that, for I'd need to really study the song more to give my own
analysis.
-- 
Jeffrey Moon			* "And the trees are all keep equal,		
University of Rochester		*  By hatchet, ax, and saw..."
New York			*		- Rush, "The Trees" 
Organization: Freshman, MCS general, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
From: brownea@cc.uvcc.edu
Subject: Re: 2112 ending... (was: RE: The Fountain O
Organization: Utah Valley Community College
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 04:48:20 GMT


>>credit for thinking the same as he does (this is my paraphrasing).  
> 
> :) Rand might have given credit to someone for thinking the same way
> she did, but Neil (IMHO) wouldn't. :)
	I agree.  I was trying to phrase this in a way which would reflect
timing.
	Earl
From: jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger)
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: Re: The meaning of "The Trees" [CA vs US]
Date: 27 Jan 93 21:08:34 GMT
Organization: Boston University Physics Department

In article <1993Jan27.182754.14740@netcom.com> jtkung@netcom.com (Joseph T. Kung) writes:
>In article <108493@bu.edu> jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger) writes:


>>>In article <108428@bu.edu>
>>>jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger) writes:

>>I would say it _is_ very political, and yes, anticollectivist.

>>So the territories are going to demand equal rights and then reduce
>>the US? Doesn't sound plausible. Furthermore, why connect the US with
>>the oak tree? Canada=maple I understand but that's all there is to
>>make remotely plausible this interpretation.

>This sounds just as plausible as maples issuing noble laws and using
>hatchets and saws to make all trees equal. :-) 


Not really, if you understand what an allegory is. :)


>The reason why this
>nation analogy sounds interesting is that Rush blatantly blast the US
>in the song, "Beneath, Between & Behind." It is not uncommon to see
>Canadians irritated at the fact that some people here mistake them for
>Americans.

There is nothing about an irritation of the maples over being consider
oaks either.



Gregg





-- 
Gregg Jaeger (jaeger@buphy)  Dept. of Physics (and Philosophy), Boston Univ.
"You see, the quantum mechanical description is in terms of knowledge" -Peierls
"One can _not_ put the psi-function... in place of the... thing" -Schroedinger
                   _De gustibus non disputandum_, NOT!
From: jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger)
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: Re: Album bouts
Date: 22 Jan 93 19:09:07 GMT
Organization: Boston University Physics Department

In article <1993Jan22.055611.24195@wam.umd.edu> moleface@next09cville.wam.umd.edu (Moleface) writes:
>In article <1993Jan21.230900.10084@iscsvax.uni.edu>  
>wipperma9340@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:

>> In an attempt to add more excitement to the net, I have a new idea.  How  
>> about Album bouts?  It entails taking one album and placing it in the ring  
>> with another in order to see how the two compare.

Sure, but the albums must be comparable.


>> RUSH ALBUM BOUT #1
>>         Hold Your Fire v. Fly by Night

These I don't think are comparable at all. They are too different in
character. Obviously from a ``chops'' point of view HYF is a far better
album, so there is no comparison.

 
>Hold Yer Fire, definitely.  It's a more mature work, both musically and  
>lyrically.

I concur. Now for some apples and oranges:

>  FbN does have moments, such as "Anthem" (although sometimes I  
>think that they hit that E after the chorus a couple too many times) and  
>the 'Of the Battle' section of "By-Tor."  The rest of the song, IMHO,  
>lyrically doesn't sound very Peartinant; I actually think it's a bit  
>goofy. But on the whole I do like the album, especially "In the End."  I  
>just think HYF is a better package on the whole.

There are virtues to the style of FBN, namely the freedom that the 
songwriting in By-Tor allows. That 'Of the Battle' section is worth
it's weight in gold, just like quality of Xanadu on FTK overshadows
any other weaknesses on the album. 

In general, I think this ``bout of the albums'' idea is more interesting
if we consider albums that were recorded more closely together in time.


Gregg

-- 
Gregg Jaeger (jaeger@buphy)  Dept. of Physics (and Philosophy), Boston Univ.
"You see, the quantum mechanical description is in terms of knowledge" -Peierls
"One can _not_ put the psi-function... in place of the... thing" -Schroedinger
                   _De gustibus non disputandum_, NOT!              (*
From: mwilson@csugrad.cs.vt.edu (Zaphod Beeblebrox)
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: Re: Thanks!
Date: 25 Jan 93 05:45:45 GMT
Organization: Virginia Tech Computer Science Dept, Blacksburg, VA

In article <C1Dnr6.BzL@umassd.edu> acskjc@UMASSD.EDU writes:
>
>I just want to thank everyone on this newsgroup for getting me to listen
>to Rush again.  I pretty much strictly into punk & alternative (I realize
>I just made some of you sick :) ), but I've been into Rush for MANY years,
>off & on (mostly on).  All this talk of HYF got me listening again.
>Thanks...there's no replacment for Rush.
>
>>Kieran

Well, I didn't get sick... but I was slightly dissapointed.  But, I must admit
that I myself have a very wide range of musical tastes ranging from some
Rap right on through rock and on to country. (I probably made a few people
sick myself :)).  Anyway, I guess the point is this: Rush is an incredibly
talented band and I for one am happy that you are listening again.


-- 
| Mike Wilson | You can choose a ready guide in some celestial voice.         |
|   Va Tech   | If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.    |
|  UnderGrad  | You can choose from phantom fears, and kindness that can kill |
|Comp. Science| I will chose a path that's clear, I will chose Free Will.-RUSH|
From: wipperma9340@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: ALBUM BOUT #2
Date: 24 Jan 93 13:10:05 -0600
Summary: A show of hams
Reply-To: wipperma9340
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

Sorry Gregg.  Your arguments are interesting, but I will go on with the project
regardless of your bitter dissent.

ALBUM BOUT #2

All the World's a Stage v. A Show of Glands . . . I mean Hands

My preference in #1:  Hold Your Fire.  As a matter of fact, it's may favorite
album of all time- even though I'm comparing it to things that are completely
different.  Mission= total genius; Tai Shan: cool; Prime Mover:  rocks;  High
Water: awesome; et al (insert praise here)

FBN is fine, but it's just too silly.  Rivendell should be banned.

Yours etc.,

The Analog Kid
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
From: prater@cs.yale.edu (Ethan Evan Prater)
Subject: Re: Midnight Star
Reply-To: prater-ethan@yale.edu
Organization: Yale Univ. Science & Engineering Computing Facility, New Haven, CT 06520
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 03:07:20 GMT

schebel8133@iscsvax.uni.edu wrote:
: -Could someone please send me the address for the "Midnight Star"?

Mail to your address bounced. Send a request to
rush-request@syrinx.umd.edu. Include your full name and e-mail address.
People read your letter, not a machine, so there's no need for weird
SUBSCRIBE lines.

--Ethan

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
   Ethan Evan Prater    |    "The sign of Eth is rising in the air..."
                        |
   prater@yale.edu      |          -- Rush -- By-Tor and the Snow Dog --
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
From: eam3@po.CWRU.Edu (Eric A. Meyer)
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: Re: Things to Look Out For (was RTB: Neurotica)
Date: 25 Jan 1993 22:00:01 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: eam3@po.CWRU.Edu (Eric A. Meyer)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc5.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, esuyn@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Mr J Currid) says, in part:

>Secondly, I can hear the static/noise on Dreamline that occurs in, I think,
>the second verse (don't ask me for a time on the CD). Can you?

   Haven't heard it, but then I haven't tried.  Unless you mean those little
'sonar pings' (or whatever, DON'T start that thread again).  Or are you
referring to what sounds to me like an ocean wave?

>Right!!! I want to start a new thread!!! Along this line. What strange things
>or peculiarities have any of you heard on Rush songs? Here's a few to be 
>going on with.
>[...text deleted...]
>On Cygnus X1 itself, if you listen right at the end to the bit where Alex
>is just playing chords to fade out, you can hear this really muffled thumping
>in the background. Is it Neil?

   It always sounded like a heartbeat to me.


>If you listen right at the end of the vinyl version of ATWAS, just after what
>you're doing, as the crowd disappears off hearing, you can hear Geddy, Alex
>and Neil coming off stage, saying 'wow what a show man o man' or some phrase
>like that :-)

   You can hear on the cassette, too.  Since I don't have the disc, I don't
know if it's there or not.


>If you listen right to the end of Between The Wheels and Mystic Rhythms, you'll
>find that they're not actually fade outs on the album - the keyboard parts do
>come to a conclusion, only very quietly. Why has that been done? Why didn't
>Peter Henderson and Peter Collins resp. leave the mix high if the song was
>going to actually finish?

   I've always wondered the same thing.  It has an interesting effect,
though.  You can always grab 'A Show of Hands' and hear the "Mystic
Rhythms" final chords at full volume.
   Seems to me there are a few other 'easter eggs' in Rush's music, but
damned if I can remember what they are.  Oh well...

		-EMeyer

-- 
"Unstable condition--a symptom of life       | Eric A. Meyer (eam3@po.CWRU.edu)
 In mental and environmental change          | Library Information Technologies
 Atmospheric disturbance--the feverish flux  |   Software Support Technician
 Of human interface and interchange-"  -N.P. | "What do you think, sirs?" -Joel
Xref: sparky alt.music.rush:5690 rec.music.makers.guitar.tablature:1513
From: chub@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Charles Ray)
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush,rec.music.makers.guitar.tablature
Subject: Music for "Monsters"
Date: 27 Jan 93 15:34:05 GMT
Organization: Monash University, Melb., Australia.

I'm looking for the tab of Rush's "La Villa Strangiato" so that I can
learn how to play the "Monsters" and the "Never turn your back on a
Monster" parts.

It's the parts from the old cartoons where the monsters are coming  :-)

I've checking at syrinx and nevada but they only have the tab's for a
bass guitar, while I'd like to play it on acoustic.

If nobody has the tab for 'La Villa' then does anybody know how to play
just the 'monsters' piece?

Thanks for any help ....

-- 
 . .                                       "You say times are tough,      
  U     Charles Ray                         we've got the best of both    
 (-)    chub@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au          worlds here."     -- Midnight Oil
From: jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger)
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: Re: 2112 ending... (was: RE: The Fountain O
Date: 23 Jan 93 01:34:16 GMT
Organization: Boston University Physics Department

In article <1993Jan21.072627.1@cc.uvcc.edu> brownea@cc.uvcc.edu writes:
>In article <1993Jan20.175251.11925@news.duc.auburn.edu>, hammekr@eng.auburn.edu (Kenneth R. Hammett) writes:

>	Actually, (if I remember the source...) in _Visions_, it says that
>Peart didn't read _Anthem_ until AFTER the album was recorded, but BEFORE it
>was shipped.

I think the story is that he read _Anthem_ *again* and put the credit
after it was recorded but before the cover was printed because he
realized that it was so similar to the story (which he'd already read).

>  He felt that her story was SO close to hers that she deserved
>credit for thinking the same as he does (this is my paraphrasing).  

:) Rand might have given credit to someone for thinking the same way
she did, but Neil (IMHO) wouldn't. :)


Gregg



-- 
Gregg Jaeger (jaeger@buphy)  Dept. of Physics (and Philosophy), Boston Univ.
"You see, the quantum mechanical description is in terms of knowledge" -Peierls
"One can _not_ put the psi-function... in place of the... thing" -Schroedinger
                   _De gustibus non disputandum_, NOT!              (*