From: Kevin.J.Feury@dartmouth.edu (Kevin J. Feury)
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll
Subject: Re: A vote for Clinton is *not* a vote for Tipper!
Date: 21 Jul 92 20:32:43 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

In article <1992Jul17.192633.7717@awdprime.austin.ibm.com>
ken@batman.austin.ibm.com (Ken Goach) writes:

> I understand the argument - Tipper Gore lead the PMRC. The PMRC
> equals censorship. Whatever. The PMRC is a defunct failure. The
> record labels began *voluntary* stickering. There was no law
> passed, there was no presidential act.

not at that time there wasn't, but it certainly lit the fire that led
to bans in florida and washington of groups like 2 live crew. yes,
there are laws today banning the sale of certain records overall and
other records to minors. that is censorship.
 
> Call it censorship, call it what you like. If you want to follow
> Frank Zappa, fine. But I can't fathom that people who are into
> rock-n-roll don't want change. By nature, we're a liberal bunch.
> Four more years of Bush and Mr. Potato(e)-head are not what I want.
> And I don't think you do either.

depends. i also don't want some idiot who says 'but i didn't inhale'.
right. that's like me saying i'm in college, under 21, in a fraternity
and i just hold a full cup of beer all night long. i don't actually
drink it...change? i doubt clinton stands for much beyond uniting the
presidency and the congress so the bloody democrats can have their way.

> What about Maplethor and other NEA exhibits that Bush's right-
> wing "we know what's best for you" bunch are prohibitng? That's what
> I call offensive and censorship.

you really should know what you're saying before you say it. bush
doesn't want federal (i.e. our tax dollars)  money being given to
artists so they can piss on a crucifix and call it art or jump around
on a stage and take a shit live. that doesn't take the mind of an
artist. hell, i could probably get an incontinent to do it free. what's
being prohibited is federal funding of projects like that, not the
projects themselves. i have no problem with that at all. you can do
what you want to do, but do it with your money, not mine. i can think
of a hell of a lot of other places that money could be spent. don't you
agree?

> What about the guy in Florida (Martinez?) arresting record shop owners?
> What about arresting artists as they come off the stage? This has
> happened in several U.S. cities. Tipper Gore wasn't there - she's not
> sending kids in to buy 2 Live Crew or standing in the arena wings
> counting obscenities and then slapping on the cuffs. In fact, I haven't
> heard a peep from her in years.

no she's not doing it, but it started with her. and you haven't heard
much because she WAS a failure. people didn't take to her ideas. but
she was a nobody then. hell, she's a nobody now. 
 
> Even if Tipper Gore is the vice-president's wife, WHO CARES? She
> has no political, legislative power. She becomes, in all actuality,
> a diplomat. She'll make public appearances, meet the wives of foreign
> dignitaries, etc. SHE CAN'T DO ANYTHING!

you think she has no influence in her husband's life and work? you
don't give women much credit then. i'm sure she'd have input in some
decisions and leeway to pursue her own little projects. even if its not
on a legislative level, its still rather irritating.

> You think that Bush is gonna
> back rock-n-roll, free speech, and everything else we're arguing about
> here?

he sure hasn't come out blatantly against them.

> Hell no! The man doesn't even care about domestic issues. 

ok mr. political scientist, show us how that's true. even though what
he does may not have as much impact as you or i would like, you must
remember he's fighting the congress tooth and nail. international
relations have very little in the way of stipulations like that. when
it comes to foreign affairs, the president has a lot more free space to
do what he likes.

>If
> he cared so much, why didn't he come out against the PMRC/album
> stickering/censorship already?

its not an issue of national emergency...yet. but it could become so if
artists and record start getting banned in the way flies get brained.

> What about his big right-wing "morals
> and family values" campaign?

what about it? at least he has a stand on this sort of thing. clinton
hasn't come out with a stance on it, likely because it's not very
different than that of the current administration.

> What about censoring artwork? What about
> the Meese commission?

i could swear i already took you to task on this one. 
check up above.

> Do you want "rightness" forced upon you?

no. that's why i don't back the PMRC or censorship. what bush is doing
is not censorship. its a moral stand on spending public money.

> Gore is a samrt guy. As we've seen here, he's written books and
> articles that would make Dan's head spin.

i'm unsure why so many people dislike dan quayle. sure the guy's not
the greastest public speaker, but then again, so many of his comments
are taken out of context. he makes a lot of mistakes, but he didn't get
where he is by accident. he's as competent as any other president we've
had. it took him a number of years of concentrated effort and work
within the party to build up the trust and admiration to become v.p.
the man knows what he's doing. just because the media likes to blow him
away left and right doesn't mean he's an idiot. do you believe
everything you see on tv, read in the papers and hear on the radio?

> His speech at the convention
> was awesome. I've watched him for a while - I almost like him more
> than Clinton. He's a refreshing breath of intelligence for the veep
> office. Do you think Tipper is gonna tell him what to do? NOT! That's
> behavior I'd expect from a dud like Quayle.

it's the kind of behavior i'd expect from someone who knows, loves and
trusts his wife and respects her thoughts, opinions and feelings.
that's the kind of person i think would make a good v.p., not the guy
who thinks he's in control all the time, but the guy open to new ideas
and concepts.

>Tipper will not be president;
> she will not be vice-president. She'll be the vice-president's wife.
> Given how Nancy Reagan's "Just say no" became a popular punch line for
> jokes, I think it's safe to assume that nobody listens to the president's
> (or vice-president's) wife.

it also sparked a nationwide campaign in our elementary schools. how
many kids do you know that haven't heard, seen or been apoart of the
just say no cammpaign? it got nationwide exposure and has influenced
much of the youth of today. anyway you look at it, she got the message
across.

> What the heck has Marilyn Quayle done? I sat
> here for five minutes trying to remember her first name!

just because it's not public knowledge doesn't mean jack. the fact that
the natioanl inquirer isn't in the quayle's bedroom taking in their
secret conversations and feelings on things doesn't mean they aren't
there. just because you don't hear about it doesn't mean it doesn't
happen or doesn't exist. how often do you hear about covert CIA
operations in england or france or israel (as opposed to the U.S.'s
"enemies") not often, but i'm sure you wouldn't be so quick to dismiss
them as non-existant?

-kev.

wurzel@mac.dartmouth.edu 

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