From: ninjam@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Marty)
Subject: Re: Chi Sao  (Was Re: Wing Chun style...help!)
Originator: ninjam@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 03:57:42 GMT

hahn@plugh.network.com (Peter Hahn) says:

>I see no one's going to give this poor guy a straight answer...

Hmm that's funny.  Thought I gave him a pretty good one.  Although
there were specifics about the art that I generally don't give out.
It's generally not good ettiquete to give out alot of specifics
of one's style, especially in Wing Chun.

>Sticky hands, or "Chi Sao" is a training exercise (not, as some people
>seem to imagine, a fighting technique), used, most notably in Wing Chun
>Gung Fu, to teach certain principles valued by that style, among them
>sensitivity, "centerline energy", the ability to trap one's opponent's
>hands (which follows from sensitivity), and so forth.

Half right.  It is indeed the idea behind a concept also, in Wing Chun.
And although your definition is correct, it goes far beyond "traping
the opponents hands" and so forth.
There is also the exercicise of Chi Sao, which is also what you described.

>In practice, one brings one's forearms into contact with one's opponent's
>forearms, and, while maintaining that contact (hence the "sticky"), one
>attempts to make a touch on one's opponent (anything from a touch with
>the fingers to the chest, to a teeth-rattling punch, depending on what
>level you'd like to play the game), while avoiding a similar touch
>from one's opponent.  Typically, one tries to maneuver inside the
>opponent's guard, or to pin up both of his/her hands with one of
>yours.

Ehh...sorta.  The Forearms aren't in contact, it's usually the wrist
in what's called a Wu Sao gaurd hand/palm block.  Many of the hand
techniques are designed from natural body positions to give maximum
coverage, yet maintain an overall contact with the opponent.  Hence
the sticky "concept".  While the touch part is correct, one would
not punch until they saw some structure deficiency, or sensed it
thru touching.  Trying to avoid contact with the opponent like
you suggest would not make sense, because you'd be touching him
in the first place.  Unless your talking about avoiding punches of
course.  And one does not try to maneuver inside the gaurd, rather
outside in, so you are punching so neither of his arms is able to
reach you (whether you are simply using a larp sao or any other
trap).  Much of the footwork in Wing Chun is designed to attribute
to this goal.  Rarely would you go inside the gaurd unless
the opponent was doing double roundhouses or something.


>There's a lot more technique to it than that, but that's the basic
>idea.

Definitely a lot more, but a pretty good outline. :)

>It is similar, in broad outline, and if you squint your eyes a lot,
>to the Hubud (sp?) of the Filipino arts, and even (a little, though
>the Tai Chi people will probably hate me for saying it) to the
>"push hands" drill of Tai Chi.  Apparently, other styles of {GK}ung
>Fu practice something similar to the Wing Chun Chi Sao as well.

Simmilar, but how should I phrase it....."Chi Sao.  There is no
substitute".     (duh duh da-da  da da) --Risky Business ;)

>BTW, I'm told that it is emphaticly *not* good etiquette to walk
>into a strange Gung Fu school and ask to Chi Sao with someone.
>Supposedly, very shortly after doing so, you will learn more about
>Chi Sao than most people care to know.

Not really.  The Chi Sao excercise is meant as a learning tool, not
to show your stuff.  It's how people learn, and maintain their energy
sensitvity.  Asking someone to do Chi Sao with you is not like
going into somewhere saying:

"Ehhh....you think yourrrr Kung fu is Good?  Miiiine is better."  *


	   * Note:  See just about every Chinese "chop saki" movie
	   and that line is in there. ;)

In Wing Chun it is considered that you can never do enough Chi Sao.
To be affraid to walk into a Kwoon and be afraid to ask someone to do it with
you would defeat the purpose.

>Peter Hahn           |hahn@network.com|"...In Peking, he told me, there lived a
>7600 Boone Ave. N    |+1 612 424-4888 |famous boxer who dropped down from three
>Brooklyn Park, MN USA|                |stories onto an interior courtyard
>55428                |                |without making a sound when he landed."



Marty

Do