HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: schuck@fraser.sfu.ca (Bruce Jonathan Schuck)
Subject: Re: Oswald's Photograph
Reply-To: Bruce_Schuck@sfu.ca
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 23:50:33 GMT

Mitchell S Todd    > 
Bruce Schuck (me) >>


>>I should have said that Roffman quotes Forensic Pathologist Halpert
>>Fillinger:

>>    You can appreciate the fact that a jacketed projectile is going to
>>    leave very little on the bone margins because it is basically a
>>    hardened jacket, and it's designed so that it will not scrape off
>>    when it goes through a steel barrel. One can appreciate the fact 
>>    that going through bone, which is not as hard as steel, may etch
>>    or scratch it, but it's not going to peel off much metal. In
>>    contrast to this a softer projectile might very well leave little
>>    metallic residues around the margins.

>	Actually, even hunting bullets are jacketed. In the case of a
>	soft-nose, the jacket extends from the base to just a few
>	millimeters behind the head, exposing the core at the tip of the
>	bullet. A hollow point is fully jacketed, save for a small hole
>	in the very tip of the bullet. Unjacketed ammunition is quite
>	rare, and I've never fired any, nor can I find anyone who has.

I take it then you are claiming to be an expert on ammunition types in
use in the early 1960's. What qualifications do you hold?

>	The size and shape of the fragment in question --roughly, a 6.5mm
>	sphere-- represents something far more than the small shavings
>	that Fillinger indicates. 

Lattimer assumed it was shaved off a bullet. 

So does Roffman.

It's too bad none of the other so-called "Panel of Experts" addressed
the issue. They just assumed it was LHO firing copper jacketed rounds
from the TSBD.

There is no other explanation for such a fragment to be on the outside
of JFK's skull.

Can you come up with one?


>>He also quotes Rowland Long from his book "Physician and the Law"

>>    Not infrequently a collar shaped fragment of lead is shaved off
>>    around the wound of entrance and is found embedded in the
>>    surrounding scalp tissues.
>	
>	This, however, does not apply to the problem. The fragment is
>	not "collar-shaped" in any way.

I don't think 'collar-shaped' is very different that the description
Roffman gives or the Clark Panel.

The fragment is in the right location to be from a lead bullet.

I notice you aren't addressing the other points I made :

1) The size of the entrance wound is only 6mm at it's smallest point,
   which is too small for a 6.5mm bullet to fit through, unless a .5mm
   collar is shaved off.

2) Test rounds [6.5mm] made 8mm holes in test skulls.

3) Lattimer thinks it was shaved off a bullet, the same way a fragment
   was shaved off the ball that killed Lincoln. He doesn't point out
   the ball wasn't copper jacketed.


The evidence clearly points to a lead bullet hitting JFK in the back
of the head.
From: busta@vicki.enet.dec.com
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
Subject: Re: Conspiracy; Cases and Cartridges
Date: 29 Jul 92 12:44:45 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


In article <154ds4INNc25@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>, david@cats.ucsc.edu (David Wright) writes...


>In sum, note that anti-conspirators are quite happy to convict Oswald in the
>Tippit murder based only on the shells found at the scene, which happend to
>have primer marks made by the rifle found on Oswald. 


  What???  ....are you trying to say? The .38 shell casings found at the scene
 of the Tippit murder had primer marks made by the Mannlicher????


>However, only one shell
>casing could have been fired from Oswald's gun, and it is likely it was not on
>that day, since it had the magazine follower marks on it.


  Why would the magazine follower marks on the shell casing preclude it from
 having been fired on that day....??



<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Paul R. Busta	Busta@vicki.enet.dec.com                       Salem,N.H.  
		--or-- ...!decwrl!vicki.enet.dec.com!busta    603-894-3962
		--or-- busta%vicki.enet@decwrl.dec.com


 `Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution
   inevitable.....'
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
From: hhm@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (herschel.h.mayo)
Subject: Where the HELL are those Films??
Organization: Chicago Home for the Morally Challenged
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 19:28:09 GMT
Keywords: zapruder films

Watching a tape of the Zapruder film the other day, I was struck by
something I had not seen before. Watch the crowd, not the car as it
passes by. I noticed what appears to be MANY people with still, and 
movie cameras taking pictures of the motorcade. WHAT HAPPNED to these
photos, and movies?. There are clearly several people besides Zapruder
making movies. So far I have only heard that one person had her movies
confiscated. Clearly, there were others. Where are these films??


                                                Larry Mayo
                                                
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
From: N020BA@tamvm1.tamu.edu
Subject: Re: Many films Make a 3-D scene?
Organization: Texas A&M University
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 00:11:16 GMT

In article <1992Jul29.145510.25418@crd.ge.com>
saltzman@crd.ge.com (Bob Saltzman) writes:
>
>In article <1683114CAC.N020BA@tamvm1.tamu.edu>, N020BA@tamvm1.tamu.edu writes:
>>
>>    Since there are two known movies of the JFK assassination, why can't
>>someone reconstruct a 3-D picture of the event(s)? I understand that two
>>different (in most cases) pictures of something can be made into a 3-D
>>picture.
>
>  . . . Editing. . .
>I have seriously considered generating a 3-D image analysis of the
>shooting, but as I am sure that you understand, it is a significant
>amount of work.  A great deal of interpolation would have to be done do
>to lack of multiple vantage-point data.  Converting 2-space image data
    But don't you have multiple vantage point data? The various films were
shot from different spots. Doesn't that constitute multiple vantage points?
======================================================================
If forced to choose between truth and beauty, choose truth.
Truth may hurt, but lies will harm.
He goes too far right ends up in left field.
Reply to N020BA@tamvm1.tamu.edu. My opinions are mine and mine alone.
Xref: sparky alt.conspiracy.jfk:2692 alt.conspiracy:9421
From: f_gautjw@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk,alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: Oswald's Behaviour
Date: 27 Jul 92 09:49:33 CST
Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University


	Last week the Houston Chronicle ran a brief article entitled
"Russian calls Oswald 'weak, bad shot'" that was datelined Moscow.

	The article published excerpts from an interview given to a
magazine published by ITAR-Tass news agency by Pavel Golovachev who
claimed to have worked with Oswald at a factory in Minsk.  He said he
found Oswald to be "a weak man, not very bright or intellectual."

	The magazine quoted Golovachev as saying that Oswald bought a
hunting gun and joined a Soviet hunters' club, but that he rarely
attended training sessions and was a bad shot.  "He failed to hit the
target even once," according to Golovachev.
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
From: gldsmth@bloomfield.uchicago.edu (John Goldsmith)
Subject: Re: Nixon & the Mafia
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 20:13:45 GMT

In article <1992Jul17.125217.29325@nntpd.lkg.dec.com>  
busta@kozmic.enet.dec.com writes:
> 
> In article <13516@mindlink.bc.ca>, Robert_Broughton@mindlink.bc.ca  
(Robert Broughton) writes...
> >> busta@vicki.enet.dec.com writes:
> >> 
> >>     Jack Rubenstein, aka Jack Ruby, worked for Nixon when he was  
governor
> >>    of California.
> > 
> >Do you mean when Ruby was governor of California? Or Nixon?
> > 
> >Actually, it doesn't matter; Neither of them was ever governor of  
California,
> >or any other state. Nixon ran unsuccessfully in 1962.
> 
> 
>    Sorry, mental abberation......;^) 
> 
>    Bad day yesterday. I meant when Nixon was VP........

I don't think you ought to mean "when Nixon was VP"; the incident that
I've read about was before Nixon was VP -- while he was in the
Senate, if I'm not mistaken.  Anybody know if the Rubenstein
connected with Nixon was really our own Jack Ruby?  How could
this be tracked down?
Xref: sparky alt.conspiracy.jfk:2595 alt.conspiracy:9272 sci.skeptic:13006
From: david@cats.ucsc.edu (David Wright)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Wesley J. Liebeler (JFK)
Date: 21 Jul 92 19:15:41 GMT
Organization: University of California; Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: si.ucsc.edu


In article <schuck.711648701@sfu.ca> Bruce_Schuck@sfu.ca writes:

|You can see these bullets pictured together on pg 335 of the 
|HSCA Report Vol 1.
|
|There is no way CE 399 did so much damage to Connally and remained
|less damaged than bullets fired into *cotton wadding*.

The above bullets shown take much more damage than sustained by Connnally.
Nichols fired a bullet into a Block of pine and the resulting bullet was
pristine and undeformed.

In my opinion it is the land and groove marks that betray CE399 as bad
evidence: since they were so intact, it is impossible that CE399 to have

1) left fragments in Connally
2) Come out with no blood or tissue

However, I think it is a mistake to assume that if a bullet *looks* pristine
to the naked eye it must be so. (Unless you have more information on Nichols
Bullet)
-- 
   |^^^^^^|      _______________________________________________________
   |      |      |"There is nothing in the marginal conditions that    | 
   |      |      | distinguish a mountain from a mole hill"            |
   | (o)(o)      O         Kenneth Boulding                            | 
   @      _)    o|_____________________________________________________|  
    |  ____\ o o
    |     /   
   /     \                              All comments  are mine---(David Wright) 
Xref: sparky alt.conspiracy.jfk:2611 alt.conspiracy:9296
From: dabbott@augean.eleceng.adelaide.edu.AU (Derek Abbott)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk,alt.conspiracy
Subject: JFK's death certificate
Date: 22 Jul 92 05:50:06 GMT
Organization: Electrical and Electronic Eng., University of Adelaide


Who actually signed JFK's death certificate. Was he a real coroner?

Was he a Parklands or Bethesada guy? If neither, then where did the
coroner examine the body? In the morgue?

Is this guy still alive today?
Xref: sparky alt.conspiracy.jfk:2614 misc.legal:14651
From: dabbott@augean.eleceng.adelaide.edu.AU (Derek Abbott)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk,misc.legal
Subject: Re: Physical Evidence
Date: 22 Jul 92 06:40:04 GMT
Organization: Electrical and Electronic Eng., University of Adelaide

In article <1992Jul16.204715.5887@wri.com> markm@wri.com writes:
>In article <1992Jul10.064839.16009@augean.eleceng.adelaide.edu.AU>
>dabbott@augean.eleceng.adelaide.edu.AU (Derek Abbott) writes:
>> Is there such thing as a publication that lists the physical evidence
>> of the jfk case that still exists today and where it is kept?
>>
>       [1-6 deleted]
>
>> 7) Oswald's revolver
>>
>>
>> Which physical things do we actually still have?? Where are they?
>> What legal process would it take to subpeona it all?
>>
>> Which are vanished?
>
>I don't know about Oswald's revolver.  Do you mean Ruby's?  I seem to remember
>hearing something on CNN several months ago about the revolver Ruby used to
>shoot Oswald.  Apparently it was sold at an auction somewhere.  An agent of the
>man who purchased the weapon was stopped in Washington DC for an unrelated
>(non-weapons) offense.  The gun was found an confiscated since it was not
>registered.  Washington DC has an ordinance stating that all
>unregistered/illegal weapons confiscated by the police must be destroyed.
>
>Last I heard, the gun's rightful owner was working feverishly to try and get a
>court injunction or something to stop the destruction of this weapon.
>
>--Mark


I actually meant Oswald's revolver.

But the thing about Ruby's revolver sounds interesting. Is there something
significant about Ruby's revolver they don't want the public to find out about?
(eg. CIA issue, or something).
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,alt.folklore.urban
From: boyd@prl.dec.com (Boyd Roberts)
Subject: Re: Wesley J. Liebeler (JFK)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation - Paris Research Laboratory
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 11:58:46 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.002352.6673@henson.cc.wwu.edu>, n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio) writes:
> 
> Yes.  It is called normal bullet behavior.   FMJ bullets are fully jacketed
> with copper, which can be quite thick.   Unless the bullet is fired into
> concrete, it is no suprise for it not to deform.   People are (relatively)
> fleshy and soft.  
> 

This is nonsense.  Even the Warren Commission details the deformation
of FMJ rounds when fired into bone.


Boyd Roberts			boyd@prl.dec.com

``When the going gets wierd, the weird turn pro...''
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
From: m_henderson@csc32.enet.dec.com (Marty Henderson)
Subject: Re: Release of JFK files-the truth comes out???
Reply-To: m_henderson@csc32.enet.dec.com (Marty Henderson)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corp. (VMS Software Support - Colorado)
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 21:58:17 GMT

--
>>  I just heard on the radio that the JFK files are going to be released (assu-
>>ing I heard the news right). I can only hope that the files will reveal the
>>truth.

>I for one am not counting on the files revealing too much. They have had 29
>years to puge this stuff you know.
          XXXX
>This all seemed too easy. 1 movie and a little uproar and now our government - >who has resisted the revelation of just about anything regarding the JFK case
>to the public for 29 years - seems to repent and graciously release
>ALL the archives to us?  

>			"THAT DOG DON'T HUNT!"

>Lets just say that I'm sceptical but hopefull.

>Marty

Oops - a little typo - thats "purge" not "puge".  KnowwhatImean?

Fat Finger Marty

 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 M_Henderson               | "Could you please continue the petty bickering?
 Marty Henderson           |  I find it most intriguing."   ---    Data, 
 Woodland Park, Colorado   |  Star Trek, The Next Generation, "Haven"
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: CONEGA@APPSTATE.EDU (Greg Cone)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
Subject: Back to the Past - addendum
Date: 29 Jul 92 01:02:10 GMT
Organization: APPALACHIAN STATE UNIVERSITY
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.23

Sorry, I left out an important detail.  It's November 22, 1963 of course!
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
From: mike@null.uucp (Mike Dreiger)
Subject: Re: GARRISON TAPES
Organization: U S WEST Communications
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 20:34:56 GMT

In <1992Jul23.210400.6637@ac.dal.ca> indiana@ac.dal.ca writes:


>    If anybody saw the pay-per-view program about the GARRISON TAPES,
>supposedly shown Wed. night, would they please share the highlights ?
>This show wasn't on here.

   Thought I'd add my own two-cents.  I saw the Garrison tapes advertised
in the paper yesterday, ( Thursday/24 ), and tried looking at the cable
channel that night to see information on the pay-per-view about it.  There
wasn't any PPV advertised at all.  So I called the cable company and they
said that the Garrison tapes would not be shown because they were preparing
to show the Olympics and had to set up some special equipment.

I'll let you draw your own conclusions.
-- 
Mike Dreiger
UUCP: mike@null.uucp
These words only come from my mouth when my lips move.
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk,sci.skeptic,alt.conspiracy
From: schuck@fraser.sfu.ca (Bruce Jonathan Schuck)
Subject: Re: Oswald's Photograph
Reply-To: Bruce_Schuck@sfu.ca
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 16:05:50 GMT


Mitchell S Todd    > 
Bruce Schuck (me) >>

>>You are misrepresenting Roffman. He said the fragment had to come from
>>a lead bullet because the copper jacket is *too hard* to shave off as
>>it enters the skull.

>	*He* said? Since when is Roffman an expert on bullet wounds?

I should have said that Roffman quotes Forensic Pathologist Halpert
Fillinger:

    You can appreciate the fact that a jacketed projectile is going to
    leave very little on the bone margins because it is basically a
    hardened jacket, and it's designed so that it will not scrape off
    when it goes through a steel barrel. One can appreciate the fact 
    that going through bone, which is not as hard as steel, may etch
    or scratch it, but it's not going to peel off much metal. In
    contrast to this a softer projectile might very well leave little
    metallic residues around the margins.

He also quotes Rowland Long from his book "Physician and the Law"

    Not infrequently a collar shaped fragment of lead is shaved off
    around the wound of entrance and is found embedded in the
    surrounding scalp tissues.





Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic
From: chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg)
Subject: Re: The Year 2029  (JFK)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 16:56:59 GMT
Organization: TC Telemanagement, Clearwater, FL
Followup-To: alt.conspiracy.jfk

According to dabbott@augean.eleceng.adelaide.edu.AU (Derek Abbott):
>[JFK discussion]

Please do NOT crosspost JFK discussion to alt.conspiracy.  Thank you.
-- 
Chip Salzenberg at Teltronics/TCT  <chip@tct.com>, <73717.366@compuserve.com>
   "Do Rush place weird subliminal backmasked messages in their songs to
 compel unwilling geeks to commit evil .sig atrocities?"  -- Dean Engelhardt
Xref: sparky alt.conspiracy.jfk:2716 alt.smouldering.dog.zone:22
From: petrov@tfs.com (George Petrov)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk,alt.smouldering.dog.zone
Subject: Re: The Mary Eno Pinchot Meyer story (relations with JFK + Timmy Leary)
Date: 29 Jul 92 02:52:20 GMT
Organization: TRW Financial Systems

In article <CRATHBUN.92Jul28185731@dante.nmsu.edu> crathbun@nmsu.edu (Chriss Rathbun) writes:
>re: kennedy
>actually kennedy was an idiot!
>he was a power crazed, sex fiend(guess he wasn't all bad),
>meglomaniacal fool who brought the world to the brink of nuclear
>anhilation several times with his grandstanding politics designed to
>make him look good regardless of the threat to peace he caused.
> 

	Mary Meyer got what she deserved
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic
From: scdorcy@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (JAMES DORCEY)
Subject: Re: The Other Rifles on the Scene (JFK)
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
Date: 21 Jul 1992 16:24 EST  

In article <1992Jul21.071429.556@augean.eleceng.adelaide.edu.AU>, 
dabbott@augean.eleceng.adelaide.edu.AU (Derek Abbott) writes...
> 
>As well as the MC rifle found in the TSDB, there was a Mauser found inside and
>an yet another rifle found on the roof of the building?
> 
>Does any one know the "official" explanation of these other rifles?

To my knowledge, there is no "official" explanation of other rifles 
because "officially" didn't exist.  The "official" line is that the M-C was 
initially misidentified as a Mauser - there was only one rifle found in the 
TSBD --> the M-C.  No explaination of a rifle on the top of the TSBD 
(actually, I was unaware of a contention that there was a rifle found on the 
roof of the TSBD.  Someone shooting from behind the Hertz sign?)

Officially, one rifle on scene, sixth floor TSBD, M-C, Oswald as trigger-
man (per WCR).  WCR states M-C initially mis-identified as a Mauser, which 
led to speculation of a Mauser on scene.

I still find the mis-identification thing far-fetched.  It would be kind of 
like mistaking my bolt-action .22LR Marlin for my custom, bolt-action .300 
Winchester Magnum or vice-versa.

JD
From: indiana@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
Subject: GARRISON TAPES
Date: 24 Jul 92 00:04:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: ac.1992Jul23.210400.6637
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada


    If anybody saw the pay-per-view program about the GARRISON TAPES,
supposedly shown Wed. night, would they please share the highlights ?
This show wasn't on here.
From: "lisa powell" <lisa.powell@canrem.com>
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
Subject: help, please
Date: 29 Jul 92 03:35:45 EST
Reply-To: "lisa powell" <lisa.powell@canrem.com>
Distribution: alt
Organization: Canada Remote Systems

Am looking for one or more sharply-critical investigatory studies of
the deaths of Angelo Roncalli, Pope John XXIII, and of Albino Luciani,
Pope Paul I.

Internet: lisa.powell@canrem.com . CRS . 71036,36 Compuserve
   
 * PMDBM  V1.75b #3 *
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario/Detroit, MI
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 10:25:28 EDT
From: Therion <HZS@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
Subject: We shoulda known

found on talk.rumors:

>From: suchman@leland.Stanford.EDU (Mark Charles Suchman)
>Newsgroups: talk.rumors
>Subject: Who killed JFK?
>Date: 30 Jul 92 19:35:25 GMT
>
>In case you were wondering, President Kennedy was shot by Oliver
>Stone, in a boldly foresightful career move.  I mean, look at it:
>Who's profited from the assassination?  Oswald?  The CIA?  The Cubans?
>The Mob?  Only Oliver Stone.  And it's not just JFK (the movie),
>either.  Without the assassination, there would have been no Vietnam
>War to film in Platoon, no Reagan Era M&A boom to film in Wall Street,
>no counter-culture to film in The Doors.
>
>"When you've eliminated the impossible, whatever is left, no matter
>how improbable, has to be more interesting than the truth."
>
>                  /
>                 /  /   _    _    /
>             /\//  /   / '  ( '  /
>            /  /ar/<  /   (__)uc/)man__________
>              /  /   |_/.
>             /
>            /   Mark C. Suchman
>                Stanford University Department of Sociology

    don't we all feel silly now for not figuring this out?
                                                            Therion
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk,sci.skeptic,alt.conspiracy