From: csmith@plains.NoDak.edu (Carl Smith)
Subject: Re: Caller ID block?
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 20:58:56 GMT
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computing Network

In article <1992Dec17.163858.27423@lunatix.uucp> chelf@lunatix.uucp (Chad Helfenberger) writes:
>In article <BzD8s8.E0n@ns1.nodak.edu> csmith@plains.NoDak.edu (Carl Smith) writes:
>>>
>>>What will you people do if someone calls from a payphone?
>>
>>Hmmm... I had planned on building some sort of smart call router whenever
>>caller ID became available in my area.  But I had never thought of this...
>
>Well, pay phones are looking nicer and nicer when people insist upon having 
>my number (if/when I call them).  Why must everyone know who is calling them 
>before they pick up thet phone?  If you don't like who is calling you, just 
>scream obscenties to them and hang up.  Big deal.
>
>>>And why do you seem to believe you are "owed" the number of the person calling?
>>>You haven't had it for years.
>>
>>Just because we haven't had it doesn't mean we don't deserve it.
>>
>>People say that caller id is an invasion of privacy.  I say that everytime
>>my phone rings it is an invasion of MY privacy.  The act of my answering the
>>phone or not, and what the other party might hear in the background, could
>>potentially reveal all sorts of info about myself that I might wish to keep
>>private.  In the past that was just the price we paid for the convenience of
>>the telephone.  In my opinion,  in return the caller OWES it to me to reveal
>>who they are.
>>
>You say EVERYTIME the phone rings, it is invasion of your privacy.  Let me 
>guess.  But ONLY if it is someone you don't want to talk to?  Right?  I 
>figured so.  Let me clue you in on something.  You could 'potenitally reveal 
>all sorts of info about' yourself when talking to ANYONE on the phone, not 
>just someone who you don't want to talk to.  

I NEVER SAID ANYTHING OF THE KIND.  Most of the people that I WANT to talk
to already know more about me than anything they could derive from a phone
call.  People that I don't know could get info on the phone that I don't
want them to know, but my friends and relatives already know.  It is 
obvious that anyone calling has the same potetial for gaining info.  

>If Calling-#-ID is not ruled unconstitutional (which it IS), 

OH, COME ON NOW, UNCONSITUTIONAL?  How?

>then there must 
>be some sort of protocol which will be followed by called parties and 
>calling parties.  WHY in the HELL would you want to give out your number to 
>anyone you called?  

When caller ID is available I will GLADLY give my number out to anyone I
call, with the idea that they will do the same for me when they call.

>Why don't you Caller ID freaks put yourself on the other 
>end of the line for a minute.

I am not a caller ID freak.  I think that the people who think that the
simple act of making someone reveal ther phone number when calling is
unconstitution are anti-caller-id freaks.

Like I said, when I get caller ID I WILL NOT BLOCK MY NUMBER FROM BEING
SENT OUT.

>>Here's a similar scenario.  Suppose my doorbell rings.  I can look though
>>the peep hole and see who it is.  If the person on the other side is
>>carrying a case that says "Handy Dandy Brush Sales," or I just don't like
>>their looks, I can choose to not open the door.  Also, if you knocked on
>>the door and someone said "Who's there?" and you refused to answer, could
>>you actually expect them to open the door?
>>
>>This all parallels caller id quite nicely.  If I don't recognize your number
>>I won't answer the phone, just like I won't answer the door if I don't like
>>the looks of the person on the other side.  And if you call with your ID
>>blocked, I wouldn't even consider answering the phone, just like it would
>>be totally out of the question to open the door to someone who refused to
>>answer when I said "Who's there?"
>>
>
>That doesn't parallel *Calling-#-ID* at all.  When someone calls that you 
>don't want to talk to, it's merely an inconvenience.  When some freak is at 
>your door, your life could be at danger.  Please pick your analogies with a 
>little more realism.

When I said that I guess I should have stated that I was not considering
threats of physical violence from the person on the other side of the door.
I was just considering the fact that if I didn't want to talk to the perosn
on the other side of the door I don't have to open it and talk to them. 
Just like I shouldn't have to talk to people on the other end of the phone
line when I don't want to.  That's why I used the example of the "Handy
Dandy Brush Salesman," rather than an example of an axe-wielding murderer.
I was trying to make a comparason between telemarketers and door to door
salesman.  I can look though the peephole and of I can determine that the
person on the other side of the door is a salesman, I don't have to open
the door and talk to them.  With caller id, if I can determine from the
number that the person on the other end is a salesman, I can choose to
not answer the phone.  Without it I HAVE to answer, and at least listen
to them for a short while to determine who they are.  This parallels
my above example in that, if I had no peep hole to look through I would
have to open the door to see that the man on the otherside was a 
salesman, and then I would have to slam it in his face...

So, discounting threats of physical violence, my example above is VERY
REALISTIC.

I think that you need some realism in reading what I said.  I resent how
you tried to put words in my mouth in your second paragraph above, where
YOU told ME that I MEANT that it was an invasion of my privacy when my
phone rings ONLY when I DON'T want to talk to the other person.  Actually,
I never said anything of the kind.  The thing is that if I had caller ID
I could choose who I wished to reveal the hypothetical private information
to.  If it is someone I want to talk to, they already know the information,
or I am CHOOSING to reveal it to them so that I can talk to them.

Without caller id I HAVE NO CHOICE but to reveal the hypothetical private
information.  If I don't want to miss important calls, I have to answer
ALL calls.