From: Will Steeves <goid@zooid.guild.org>
Subject: Re: Stranded on an Island
X-To: GALEN J. HEKHUIS
Organization: The Zoo of Ids
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 15:17:00 GMT

NOTE : In order to assist me in fixing my mail reader's double posting
problems, I am going to cross-post this message by specifying Newsgroups: in
the header, *and* making SLMR copies.  My theory is that in each of these three
groups, the message will be duplicated three times....   I think....  With any
luck, this problem will soon be fixed... Thank you for your patience with my
experimenting to *try* to solve this ridiculous problem...


gjh@galen.med.Virginia.EDU (Galen J. Hekhuis) writes...
GJH> Uh, terminal analysis has determined that I didn't write the following:

OOPS!  Two billionth time that I have done that... Sorry.


GJH> *}GJH> }Hmmm... perhaps so.  But that is ALSO quite one-sided.  Now try...
GJH> *}GJH> }
GJH> *}GJH> }When a woman loves a man, she respects his feelings and doesn't des
GJH>         a
GJH> *}GJH> }wanted child without even letting him into the discussion process.

GJH> But I did go on and rattle as follows:

GJH> }GJH> Nope, it doesn't fit on one line, and doesn't have quite the same rin
GJH> r
GJH> }GJH> "Whether or not a man loves a woman, he considers her capable of choi
GJH> }GJH> 'Course, that may not fit your agenda...
GJH> }
GJH> }'Course, that depends on what you think my agenda is...  :-)

GJH> True.  I think it involves changing the legal status of abortion.   I

Not significantly... But I WOULD like to see the foetus recognised as a person,
and with the technological advances which myself and others are proposing
(ie., extracting a foetus so that the unwilling pregnant woman will not have
to carry him/her), I do not believe that this will constitute the huge
nightmare of oppression that many women's groups are doomsaying.  Mind you, I
would *only* want this legal change to take place *after* the technology is in
place, in order to avoid a situation where women are forced to remain pregnant.

(Yes, I *am* going to get flamed for this...no doubt about it).

However, my support group will be *neutral* on all of these issues, since I
would prefer the group to focus on situations and emotions, *not* sinking into
bitter arguments over this, that, and the other thing...


GJH> think it also involves engaging those who express themselves as being
GJH> "pro-choice" in controversy over various things.  For example, I always
GJH> think of James Brown when I read "When a man loves a women..." but up
GJH> until now I hadn't mentioned it.

Well...I have engaged both "pro-choice" and "pro-life" people in controversy
over various things that they have said, although I admit that I have had
more discussions with the former...  Mind you, I think that this is because
for every "pro-life" person, there are two to three "pro-choice".  This is
my own theory, but the volume of posts seems to confirm this.

So, I would say that the situation is more one of sheer numbers, than any
inherent bias towards taking aim at "pro-choicers" more than "pro-lifers".


GJH> [stuff about making it illegal not to join a support group.]

GJH> }Hmmm.....  I'll give it a try, Galen.  :-)

GJH> Didn't mean to trivialize your comment with that response, sorry if it
GJH> appears that I did.  What I wish to point out is that if men are in
GJH> denial about something, they won't willingly join a support group
GJH> for that something, no will they?  They deny it.  You'd have to
GJH> make it illegal and possibly get them to join at the point of a gun.

Well...the *best* that I can do, is advertise, by signs, net messages, and
word of mouth.  That is how support groups for women work, ie., rape crisis
centres, abused women's shelters, etc.  If someone is denying that they are
in crisis, then I can hardly *force* them to join.  I still don't know what it
was in my message, that made you think that I was going to force anyone (maybe
it's because you thought that I was a "pro-lifer" and had begun believing
certain individuals who call "pro-lifers" the name "pro-forcers," and assumed
that I was therefore going to use force...  :-) ).

Mind you, showing men that there *is* a place for them to go, will certainly
help some to come out of the shadows.

---
Will Steeves, goid@zooid.guild.org                      "Neil Hull is GOiD"
ZOOiD BBS, Toronto, Ontario - The Zoo Of Ids            "GOiDS Rule"
(416) 322-7876
---
 * SLMR 2.1a * Pie R Squared?  No, Pie R round, Cornbread R square!