From: merchant@davidsys.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: 'burqa and muslim women'
Date: 10 Apr 92 15:53:15 PST
Organization: DAVID Systems Inc, Sunnyvale CA

In article <1992Apr7.232206.21036@sarah.albany.edu>, ys3359@thor.albany.edu (Yazmasterj) writes:
> In article <92098.05041332JMVQG@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU> Mahfooz Ahmed Jafry <32JMVQG@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU> writes:
>>Salam Alaikum Yasmeen Sahebah:
>                ^^^^^^^
> 
> 	Not to nitpick or anything, but the spelling is YasmIn.
> 
> Assalamoalakum
> 
> 
> 	I found it a little difficult to understand the details of your
> 	message, but I believe the gist of it was to convince me of the
> 	holiness of purdah, the weakness of women and the need for limitations
> 	upon them.
> 
>>Further Holy Quran says take help from salah and sabr.  
>>Of course before paradah, we have to takecare for our salah first.
>>But you may recall that holy Quran gives latitude to women for salah 
>>during their days (no need to go in details), what is the philosophy behind ?
> 
> 	I had always assumed that the exemption of women from salah,
> 	fasting, etc. during their menstrual period was due to the issue
> 	of paki and napaki.  In the classical religious sense, a woman is
> 	napak during her period and thus the exemption from religious duties.
> 	Islam is very particular about cleanliness.  This exemption does not
> 	have to do with the physical or mental ability of women to perform
> 	salah or any other task, religious or otherwise, during their period.
> 	
>>        You may disagree with Maudoodi, this is o.k. but you cannot 
> deny the Allah's open order for paradah verses of Ahzab, noor and nisa.
> 
> 	From the verses I have read about the need for women to cover
> 	themselves, I don't know where the Muslim men got the idea of
> 	the exact areas to be covered.  The verses I believe you are 
> 	to are as follows:
> 
> 	Al-Ahzab (33:32-33)
> 
> 	32. O ye wives of the Prophet!  Ye are not like any other women.
> 	If ye keep your duty (to Allah), then be not soft of speech, lest
> 	he in whose heart is a disease aspire (to you), but utter customary
> 	speech.
> 
> 	33. And stay in your houses.  Bedizen not yourselves with the 
> 	bedizenment of the Time of Ignorance.  Be regular in prayer,
> 	and pay the poor-due, and obey Allah and His messenger.  Allah's
> 	wish is but to remove uncleanness far from you, O Folk of the
> 	Household, and cleanse you with a thorough cleansing.
> 
> 	Now these verses are clearly directed at the women of the 
> 	household of the Prophet.  The directive to stay in the home
> 	was not given to all believing women.  In addition, the dictionary
> 	definition of bedizen is "to dress in a gaudy or vulgar manner"
> 	which is very different from wearing something which does not
> 	show anything but eyes and hands.
> 
> 	Al-Ahzab (33:59)
> 
> 	59. O Prophet!  Tell thy wives and thy daughters and the women
> 	of the believers to draw their cloaks close round them (when
> 	they go abroad).  That will be better, so that they may be
> 	recognized and not annoyed.  Allah is ever Forgiving, 
> 	Merciful.
> 
> 	Now this verse tells women to draw their wraps around them in
> 	such a way as they will be recognized as believing women.  There
> 	is still no directive to cover everything except eyes and hands.
> 	The gist seems to be that a reason for those who would harrass
> 	women should not be given to them with clothes which suggest
> 	otherwise.  Remember the culture that is being dealt with here.
> 	They would have done anything to harrass the Muslim people.  In
> 	fact, the verse before it states:
> 
> 	58. And those who malign believing men and believing women
> 	undeservedly, they bear the guilt of slander and manifest
> 	sin.
> 
> 	Al-Nur (24:31)
> 
> 	31. And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and
> 	be modest, and to display of their adornment only that which
> 	is apparent, and to draw their veils over their bosoms, and not
> 	to reveal their adornment save to their own husbands or fathers
> 	...[many relations stated]...And let them not stamp their feet
> 	so as to reveal what they hide of their adornment.  And turn unto
> 	Allah together, O believers, in order that ye may succeed.
> 
> 	This verse stresses covering women's chests.  It also commands
> 	women not to reveal of their beauty that which is not easily
> 	perceived.  This can be interpreted in many ways and I'm sure has
> 	been interpreted by men over the ages as covering everything which
> 	isn't the eyes and hands.  I wonder if those interpretations were
> 	so for the good of women or for the benefit of men.  Historically
> 	woman has been known as a temptress who distracts men from the
> 	work of God.  Are men so easily distracted that they will see beauty
> 	in an elbow?  Is nothing on a woman easily perceived but her hands
> 	and eyes?
> 
>> Now let us forget
>> Maudoodi and all all hadith cited by him.  Now I am talking about Quran.
>>
>>    'Wa qarna fi baiutaikunna wala tabbrujna tabbarujutul jahiliatul ula'
>>                                                            (Ahzab)
>>'Do not go out yourself exposing as you did in the period of jahilia'
>>you can see any tafseer, any translation.  
>>What this mean, liberal scholar like
>>Yousuf Qarzawi even cannot deny about this direct injunction of Holy Quran.
> 
> 	First of all, this verse is part of a verse I stated above which was
> 	addressed directly to the wives of the Prophet.  It was not addressed
> 	to all the believing women.  Secondly, how did women dress in the 
> 	time of Jahilia?  Did they dress immodestly?
> 	Did they dress to draw attention or exude sex appeal?  Is there a 
> 	middle ground between dressing provocatively and covering everything
> 	up?  Does every part of a woman's body exude uncontrollable sex
> 	appeal for the men around her?
> 
>>But it does not mean that even when there is need women sit at home, they are
>>allowed to work but in Islamic limitation and in an Islamic environment.  
> 
> 	What is this Islamic limitation and Islamic environment?  Is it
> 	not incumbent upon both men AND women to work within an Islamic
> 	environment or do you think that men can work as strippers perfectly
> 	legally within the bounds of Islam?  Both men and women need to
> 	be modest.  A covering which covers everything is extremely
> 	cumbersome and annoying.  Is it necessary to cover everything
> 	for a woman to be modest?
> 
> 
> 
>>         Concerning women's menstrual period, I think Maulana Maudoodi cited so
>>me medical refrences so this is not his fault.  In daily life, this my own expe
>>rice that women are weaker than men and weaker in observation too and cannot re
>>sit or fight like men etc.  One American girl,she was POW (girl from Michigan)
>>in Iraq and it became big issue in the west ?  What is about hundreds of men PO
>>W ?  If you logic is right ?  Why such a massive demonstration and inputs for w
>>omen role as prisoner of war.  I think you got my point that women physically l
>>agged behind the man.  This is fact.
> 
> 	I might agree with you that the average woman is smaller physically
> 	than the average male.  However, it is possible for a woman to be
> 	bigger and stronger than a man.  In addition, what does this have
> 	to do with anything?  Since when does brute strength count for
> 	more than mental ability?  I don't know about others, but I do not
> 	regularly engage in hand to hand combat.  I definitely use my
> 	mind than my strength.  It is a fallacy to equate physical strength
> 	with mental capability.  In the world today, mental ability counts
> 	more than the ability to pound someone into the ground.  In this
> 	women definitely do not lag behind.  So what's the problem?
> 
> 
> 
>>         I think I clarified most of the question raised by you and still I inv
>>ite you to read the verses of ahzab, nisa and noor.  By the way I asked Arabic
>>scholars about the validity and authenticity of his book 'paradah' and their
>>reply remained affirmative.
> 
> 	I don't think you clarified the questions I raised.  You presented
> 	me with verses in the Quran which are vaguely defined and asked me
> 	to infer from this that every portion of a woman's body except for
> 	the eyes and hands should be covered.  I can infer no such thing.
> 	Since I don't know the Arabic scholars you are consulting and don't
> 	know which biases they might hold, I cannot take your word that they
> 	replied as you say or that they were qualified to reply at all.
> 
> 
>>         Do you want me to cite the exact verse of sura ahzab on jalabeeb 'to c
>>over faces ' for muslim women.  This is verse is clearly mentioned in Ahzab and
>> verses of surah noor supports it.  Holy Quran says 'if some comes to your door
>> give the the requested thing from the side (do not come in front)' verse sur
>>an noor. In early morning I do not have Quran with me in the lab otherwise I ca
>>n give u the exact verse and #.
> 
> 	It is in Al-Ahzab (33:53):
> 	
> 	53. O ye who believe!  Enter not the dwellings of the Prophet
> 	for a meal without waiting for the proper time, unless 
> 	permission be granted to you.  But if ye are invited, enter,
> 	and, when your meal is ended, then disperse.  Linger not for
> 	conversation.  Lo!  that would cause annoyance to the Prophet,
> 	and he would be shy of (asking) you (to go); but Allah is not shy
> 	of the truth.  And when ye ask of them (the wives of the Prophet)
> 	anything, ask it of them from behind a curtain.  That is purer for
> 	your hearts and for their hearts.  And it is not for you to
> 	cause annoyance to the messenger of Allah, nor that ye should
> 	ever marry his wives after him.  Lo!  that in Allah's sight would
> 	be an enormity.
> 
> 	Now I know that this is supposed to traditionally be the verse
> 	which signaled the descent of the hijab.  However, there is also
> 	published work, which is more plausible which states that this
> 	verse was for the benefit of the privacy of the Prophet and his
> 	household.  Except for the part about the curtain, the verse
> 	concerns itself solely with the annoyance of the Prophet and the
> 	privacy of his household.  Is this curtain a veil which has
> 	descended over the faces of women or is it a curtain which guards
> 	the privacy of the Prophet's house.  Remember, 6 verses later in
> 	the same surah, believing women are told to draw their cloaks round
> 	them close.  Why would they be told that if they had already been
> 	told to wear hijab?
> 
>>Why Holy Quran says (sura noor) do not talk to the men politely and do not
>>walk by making noise with your steps.  What these means ?
> 
> 	Does it tell women to cover up or does it tell them not to
> 	draw undue or provocative attention to themselves?
> 
>>          Again somebody will write this is segregation, no, if the I
>>slamic government will come in true spirit I do not think there is any need for
>>women to go for work.  Inshall we will form an ideal welfare state and give the
>> women their due respect like queen not like floor cleaning genitors.  Please
>>feel free to write or ask any question.  Your brother in Islam. jafry
> 
> 	This is not a matter of need.  It is a matter of want.  Women
> 	want to go to work.  They want to be an active part of this
> 	world.  They want to have a destiny which is not predetermined
> 	by men.  I don't want to be treated like a queen or a janitor.
> 	I want to be treated like a human being who is equal to other
> 	human beings and who is judged on her acts as any other human
> 	being, man or woman.
> 
> Khudahafiz
> 
> Yasmin
> 
> 
> **************************************************************************
> *                                   *                                    *
> *  Yasmin Sohrawardy                *  "Only Nixon can go to China"      *
> *                                   *                                    *
> *  Internet:  ys3359@csc.albany.edu *            - Ancient Vulcan        *
> *                                   *              Proverb               *
> **************************************************************************

Assalam Walaikum,
	Your article was very well stated.  It was a benefit to have
the referenced verses from the Qur'an. -rukhsana

Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan