HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: js@cs.tulane.edu (Jan Silbermann)
Subject: Re: I Hate This Time of Year!
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-16773]: caesar
Organization: Computer Science Dept., Tulane Univ., New Orleans, LA
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 04:23:50 GMT

In article <liq6meINNq9l@appserv.Eng.Sun.COM> janiceg@marvin.Eng.Sun.COM writes:
>I just got back from a weekend in New Orleans and several people at the
>convention I was attending pointed out a newspaper article to me that
>was covering an event: the lighting of a community menorah in the local
>cathedral. Seems that the ceremonial lighting used to be done in a
>large outdoor city-owned square, but since the ruling came down that
>such things can't be done on government-owned property, the local rabbi
>decided that the large cathedral right off the square was perfect.

The Chabad sponsored communal lighting is still going to be held this year.
It takes place on a privately owned  square that is in a very public
location (outside a very busy mall, by the Mississippi river.) It
is a wonderful event and brings all segments of the community together
and is sorely needed in a city where there is a lot of intermarriage and
lack of Jewish education.

The menorah lighting in the cathedral is sponsored by one reform synagogue.
I presume it is a part of the Jewish/Christian dialogue that is very popular
with the reform synagogues here and which also has a big role to play
in community well-being.

Being Jewish in New Orleans is not easy, but we get by!
My 2 1/2 Year old daughter has a very interesting reaction to Xmas lights.
She looks at them and says "Oooh, pretty. Hashem made them." I guess
all is not lost even in this city where it is a constant struggle
to hold onto our Jewish identity!!

Jan
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: chips@eskimo.com (cav)
Subject: Re: Holocaust jokes (was Re: To all Jews)
Organization: >>> Eskimo North (206)-FOR-EVER <<<
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 16:23:32 GMT

A book dealing entirely with Holocaust humor was published last year.
If interested, send me private e-mail for more info.

================================================================================
 chips@eskimo.com <-NEW ADD              *** Bring back Bill Machrone 
 CompuServe: 72431,2153                  *** as PC Magazine editor !!! 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: rjb3@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (robert.j.brown)
Subject: Re: Irreconcilable Differences...
Organization: AT&T
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 17:17:57 GMT

In article <1gb4j7INNlrk@iskut.ucs.ubc.ca>, hook@eagle.geog.ubc.ca (Chris Hook) writes:
> In article <1gb15uINNquu@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, bc744@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark Ira Kaufman) writes:
> |> 
> |>    There have been various recent efforts to link Christianity to 
> |> Judaism.  These efforts range from the repeated use of the phrase   
> |> "Judeo-Christian" to groups of evangelists refering to themselves
> |> as 'Jews' for Jesus.  All of these efforts, calculated to convert 
> |> Jews to Christianity, are doomed to failure.  These attempts show
> |> that they know little or nothing about Judasim.
> |>
> 
> I think you're lumping in a bit too much all at once here. I say this
> as I find very many prominent Jewish scholars and leaders (if I can 
> assume anything from the books they're writing at this time) to be 
> quite interested (as are a number of more "enlightened" Christian 
> leaders and scholars) in seriously pursuing Judeo-Christan ethics, 
> values, and even common grounds of belief. There is NO thrust to 
> convert any one to anything within this setting, rather there is more 
> of a climate of reconciliation on many common grounds (while leaving
> diversities as acceptable). 
> 
> [MUCHO DELETO] 
> 
> Chris Hook
> hook@geog.ubc.ca

I tend to agree with Ira that, at least, Evangelical Christianity
is ultimately incompatible with Judaism.  If you think about our
"mission" in E-Christianity, it is to preach our good news to the whole
world making disciples of all nations. If we were 100% successful
then Jews would dissappear, at least as a religious entity.  For a
lot of Jews isn't the definition of Judaism bound up in the Land,
the Torah, and the Jewish people ?

I am not amazed or hurt at all Chris that Jews who have thought about
it more than five seconds are offended and hostile.  However, I believe
that the tactics that some of our groups have used through the ages
even up to the present thoroughly discredit our message.  But even
on our best behavior, our message is offensive to Jews (and a whole
bunch of other folks.)

While I maintain I can learn from, help (in various ways), and treat
Jews (and all others) as I would like to be treated, I understand
that in a very special way my beliefs are never going to be welcomed
in the Jewish world.  It is a survival issue.

Bobby - akgua!rjb

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: tjm@hrt213.brooks.af.mil (Tim Miller)
Subject: Cerebus' Genuine Flame (was: Re: Vijay's Genuine Apology)
Organization: AL/HRTI, Brooks AFB
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 20:36:42 GMT

On 16 Dec 92 16:31:29 GMT, ucakrvb@ucl.ac.uk (Vijay Bhuchar) said:

 > My first article was in a response to a question 
 > * What is Messianic Judaism? * 

	A cult that masquerades as Jews and acts not unlike the Reverend
Moon's, utilizing the same underhanded programming techniques.

 >					I showed you the Daniel 9 
 > prophecy which is winning the Orthodox over in their 100's.

	To which you still have failed to answer serious allegations of
misrepresenting the text and concepts (like a 360-day year).

	Also, the "100's" you refer to have been shown to be those
people raised with little Jewish education, be it O, C, or R.

 > My follow ups were in response either to news items or e-mail
 > (i.e. you said there was no crucifixion prophecy and I showed it 
 > to you etc. etc)

	You showed only your lack of understanding of the text, your
ability to cite out of context to suit your agenda, and a refusal to
answer criticism.

	You also showed that you yourself were only quoting passages
from prepared evangelical texts aimed specifically at Jews by non-Jews
(re: Isaiah 53:4-12 "edited" out of modern copies of the Tanakh).  Your
inability to answer-- indeed, your *lack of any answer*-- to questions
outside the main thrust of these texts is evidence.

 > I will get round to sending e-mail enquirers a standard reply soon 

	Oh, what a good idea!  A form letter!  Anyone who e-mails you
should beware being put on someone's mailing list.

 > Follow me on alt.messianic and I will show you other proofs of
 > Messiahship of Jeez and I will at some point answer the question

	"Messiahship of Jeeze?"  What is this?  If you can't say the
name, why do you bother preaching?

 > * Why do Christians evangelize Jews? * 

	One reason is the firm belief by some non-Jews that the Second
Coming (tm) cannot take place until all the Jews are converted.

	Another is that they believe that by brainwashing other people,
they somehow atone for sins, thus freeing them to continue their ways so
long as they continue their "good work."

	Another reason, and a more subtle one, is that the existence of
a distinct, long-lived, non-Christian movement is taken by some to be
evidence of the inadequacy of their own faith, and therefore they strive
to eradicate this movement to assuage their own doubt.

 > See you on a.m hopefully 

	Not on your life.  Nor mine.

-- Cerebus <tjm@hrt213.brooks.af.mil>
"That's the last.  I promise."
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: kgivon@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (karen lee givon)
Subject: Re: Skoll and "netiquitte"
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 14:20:33 GMT

In article <92352.1801272893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> Andy <2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> writes:
>longer. In Skoll's case I even bounced his mail and stopped replying altogether

So if you're both bouncing each other's email does it bounce back and
forth forever?  ;-)

-Keren   


Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: rmt51@cas.org (Rick Turkel)
Subject: Re: Halacha
Reply-To: rmt51@cas.org
Organization: S.W.I.G.
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 01:29:39 GMT

In article <3071@israel.nysernet.org>, warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
writes:
|> In <1992Dec14.164911.13357@cas.org> rmt51@cas.org (Rick Turkel) writes:
|> 
|> >I'm not sure, but at this point you're approaching the realm of (possibly)
|> >keeping the letter of the law but dispensing with its spirit.  CYLOR, or
|> maybe
|> >the Institute for Science and Halacha.
|> 
|> Why is electricity a problem with "the spirit of the law"?
|> 
|> CYLOR in this case sounds to me like "please take this discussion to
|> dev.null" I hope I'm wrong, but it seems to me that serious questions
|> are made unwelcome by this answer.

Not intended that way at all.  I'm sorry if that's how it sounded.

The "spirit of the law" is not to do any productive work on Shabbat.  Since
the vast majority of tasks involving electricity are in that realm, we
generalize to prohibit all of its uses.  Another example: the halacha forbids
carrying in a public domain, but not in a private one.  However, despite the
fact that there's no prohibition, I don't know too many halachic Jews who
would rearrange their furniture on Shabbat.

|> -- 
|> /|/-\/-\          Adif tzav pinui metzav shmoneh.
|>  |__/__/_/    
|>  |warren@         "WARENS statement in his signature express a Nazi idea."
|> / nysernet.org 			    Gideon Ehrlich

-- 
Rick Turkel           (___  ____ _  _  _  _  _     _  ___   _  _ _  ___
(rmt51@cas.org)           )    |  |  \  )  |/ \     |    |   |  \_)    |
(rmt51@cas.bitnet)       /     | _| __)/   | __)    | ___|_  | _( \    |
      Rich or poor, it's good to have money.        |

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: godfrey@vxdesy.desy.de
Subject: Re: Andy the Canadian twatquit
Organization: (DESY, Hamburg, Germany)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 09:42:21 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.044635.18892@cbnewsj.cb.att.com>, ecl@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (Evelyn C. Leeper) writes:
> As a woman reader of s.c.j, I find the use of the word "twat" in this
> context (and indeed, in any context) offensive, and would ask that
> posters refrain from using it.
> 
> Evelyn C. Leeper  |  +1 908 957 2070  |  att!mtgzy!ecl or  ecl@mtgzy.att.com

I have written to the publishers of the Oxford ENglish dictionary asking them
to remove it because you find it offensive in any context.  As a man, I do not
find the use of the equivalent words - dick etc. - in the least offensive.
Twat is not a word that is in any way insulting to women - it is simply
insulting to the person to whom it is applied.

Laurence
From: janiceg@marvin.Eng.Sun.COM (Janice Gelb)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: I Hate This Time of Year!
Date: 14 Dec 1992 23:37:50 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: janiceg@marvin.Eng.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: marvin

I just got back from a weekend in New Orleans and several people at the
convention I was attending pointed out a newspaper article to me that
was covering an event: the lighting of a community menorah in the local
cathedral. Seems that the ceremonial lighting used to be done in a
large outdoor city-owned square, but since the ruling came down that
such things can't be done on government-owned property, the local rabbi
decided that the large cathedral right off the square was perfect. 

*sigh*

********************************************************************************
Janice Gelb                  | (415) 336-7075     
janiceg@marvin.eng.sun.com   | "A silly message but mine own" (not Sun's!) 
********************************************************************************

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: madhaus@netcom.com (Maddi Hausmann)
Subject: Re: Why I became an Athiest (was: frustrations with christianity)
Organization: Society for Putting Things on Top of Other Things
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 01:34:21 GMT

jgoldber@todah.chem.utoronto.ca (Joel Goldberg) writes: >
madhaus@netcom.com (Maddi Hausmann) writes: >>

>>                                                      Of course
>>there is more to Judaism, and to most other religions, than a
>>series of Thou Shalt Nots.  What I tried to get across was that
>>my father failed in showing me this.  It may there for others,
>>but it was *not* communicated to me.  Mr. Saal attacks me for
>>drawing a conclusion based on my very real experiences.  
>  What conclusions do you draw? Serious question. Your essay
>  described your dissatisfaction with the gulf between theory
>  and practice observed while growing up. It seems that you
>  drew conclusions about the theory, as a result.

Well, the dissatisfaction between theory and practice is what
started my *questioning* things as they were.  The conclusions
I drew were that the religion was not for me, because it was
not a sense of joy, comfort, or inclusion.  My first post on 
this thread referred to my dismay with the sexist aspects of
the religion.  My point was that the questioning of "Is this
the way I want to live my life?" had to start somewhere, and I
was trying to identify the events that sent me in another
direction.

Is this what you were asking or am I totally misunderstanding
your question?

-- 
Maddi Hausmann                madhaus@netcom.com
Humorist, Satirist, Tech Writer.  Take your pick.

Centigram Communications Corp, San Jose California  408/428-3553
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: jhart@ee.ic.ac.uk (Joanna Hart)
Subject: Re: Entertaining suggestions for responses to "Merry Christmas"
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 17:02:08 GMT

Distribution: world
Organization: Elec. Eng. Dept., Imperial College London


There is always the traditional 'Bah humbug!'.

What do people think about sending/ encouraging other people to send you Xmas cards?

I have found that whilst I try to send cards to people I work with etc. (ie. the non-Jewish ones, which is most of them), as they all know I'm Jewish they don't send me cards (in case I get upset or offended) and then get embarrassed when they get mine.

Cheers & Happy Chanukah

Jo

-- 
___________________________________________________________________
Jo Hart	 (jhart@ee.ic.ac.uk)	| "Alas, for I have wasted time,
Imperial College, London	|  and now does time waste me..."
___________________________________________________________________
From: strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: atonement thru death of righteous person
Date: 13 Dec 92 19:05:31 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)


In connection with the notion of a generational 'righteous person'
see also Andre Schwarz-Bart's wonderful and moving novel, "The
Last of the Just."

David
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: mk568652@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Mitchell Kotler)
Subject: Finally- a straight answer about noses
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 21:51:15 GMT
Organization: Colorado State U. Engineering College

> Can anyone explain how this myth got started ?

Which one, the one about the noses being big or the noses being hooked??

The big nose myth is nonsense. It arises from the fact that Northern European
people have unusually small noses as compared to other white people. They
naturally thought that the Jews living amomg them had large noses. In
comparison with Southern and Western European people Jews do not have larger
noses.

As for the hooked nose idea, the common ancestors of the Aryan and Semitic
people probably often had noses which were "convex". This is why people in the
middle east, whether Semitic or Aryan often have convex noses. The people of
Northern and Central Europe are not pure Aryan as Hitler thought. They are a
mixture of Pre-Aryan and Aryan peoples. (The so called Nordic features are 
not Aryan but Pre-Aryan.) The Pre-Aryan people of Northern Europe probably had
concave noses and this is the most common nose shape among Northern Europeans,
however there are still many Europeans with dark Aryan! hair and Aryan! convex
noses.

As for actually hooked noses where the tip of the nose extends considerably
lower than the place where the bottom the nose joins the face (as seen in 
antisemitic cartoons) the only people I have seen who vaguely approximate this
feature have all been Scottish or French. So maybe it is a feature which
developed among Celts but it certainly isn't a Jewish feature. 

********************************************************************************

Thank you , Colin, for you answer. It was the only 
serious one I received.  It saddens me to know that
so many Jews support this stereotype.  I received
lots of replies in the form of nose jokes.


Thanks again.

Mitch
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: goldberg@techunix.technion.ac.il (Jacques Goldberg)
Subject: Re: Shabbat question
Organization: Technion, Israel Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 13:42:50 GMT

weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener) writes:
> Bicycles are muktzeh. 
  Ahah? Can you supply a reference? Thanks in advance.
>-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
  Jacques
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: nmiller@starbase.trincoll.edu (norman miller)
Subject: Re: The Eight Nights of Chanukah
Organization: Trinity College, Hartford, CT.
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 16:05:12 GMT

In article <davidh.724234403@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu> davidh@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu
 (David Klein) writes:
>On the eighth night of Chanukah, someone sent to me,
>
>Eight fiddlers fiddling,
>Seven rabbis dancing,
>Six grandmas cooking,
>Five kosher dills,
>Four pounds of corned beef,
>Three golden latkes,
>Two matzoh balls,
>and a warm bagel topped with cream cheese.
>
>Happy Chanukah!
>--
>David H. Klein        davidh@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu      Brandeis University

What, no singing of the traditional nigun: "Here We Go Round The
Hanuka Bush"?

nm


Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: solovay@netcom.com (Andrew M. Solovay)
Subject: Re: Jewish STEREOTYPES - the last time
Organization: People's Front of Judea
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 02:34:35 GMT

In article <Dec17.221329.62773@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> mk568652@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Mitchell Kotler) writes:
>
>Is anyone brave enough to give me a real answer without the idiotic 
>self-stereotyping  jokes that I have gotten?

Things brings us back to the classic Talmudic question, "Why did
God create goyim?"

The accepted answer is, of course, "*Somebody* has to buy
retail."

I hope this clears things up.
-- 
Andrew Solovay    

"SILENCE = QUIET"
                --Girljock Magazine
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Subject: Here we go again
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 17:59:33 GMT
Keywords: annoying messianics and missionaries


Has it been 2 months already?  I was sure it was less time than that.
Two months is about all the respite we get on SCJ before another
missionary discovers SCJ and all us "Jews bound for hell" unless we
accept good 'ol GeeWhiz.  Oy Vey.  When will they learn?  More
importantly, how can we get them to stay away?

This is not a call for a moderator, but wouldn't it be nice if these
fahkockedeh, fahblunged (sorry my Yiddish accent is not so good)
missionaries would just leave us alone....
-- 
Sam Saal      kingfish!saal OR saal@kingfish.att.com
	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll)
Subject: Re: Skoll and "netiquitte"
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 18:52:56 GMT

In <92352.1305112893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> Andy
<2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> writes:

> Not only is Skoll, the self chosen netiquitte enforcer, repeatedly
> paraphrasing other peoples e-mail without permission, he also insists
> on e-mailing me despit e the fact that 1)several weeks ago I asked him
> to stop and 2) I have bounced back every message he's sent me since.

Well, what an interesting situation we have here!

I use the "elm" mail system, and the "filter" program.  Here's what used
to be in my filter file:

> if (from = "2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA") then exec "bounceback bb"

Now, the "bounceback" program is a simple program which e-mails
people telling them I'm not interested in mail from them.  (For those
who worry about net mail wars, don't - I've written bounceback so it
never bounces more than 5 pieces of mail per day back to a given address.)

So any mail "Andy" has been getting from me, apart from my 1 initial
posting in a (futile) attempt to keep this discussion OFF scj, is his
own fault.

> Mr Skoll, please stop sending me e-mail. I don't read it and I don't
> want it!

Well, "Andy", if you post a public denunciation of me on scj, calling
me names in front of the entire scj community, I will send you e-mail
to keep the discussion OFF scj.  And should you persist in your
tactics of public denunciation followed by rejection of e-mail, I'll
just have to re-enable my bounceback program.

P.S. If anyone's interested in the source to bounceback, let me know.
Right now, it's a quick hack, but if there's a lot of interest, I'll
clean it up and make it publically available.

--
                     |         | "Step up and shake the hand
David F. Skoll       | ||||||| |  Of someone you can't stand,
|_ _ _  __   __ _ __ |  \\V//  |  You can tolerate him if you try..."
 / |  | |_|   | |  | |  __|__  |  -- Tom Lehrer, "National Brotherhood Week"
_____|________________________________________________________________________

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: solovay@netcom.com (Andrew M. Solovay)
Subject: Re: Jewish STEREOTYPES - the last time
Summary: Ha ha only serious
Organization: People's Front of Judea
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 22:46:04 GMT

In article <Dec19.204004.51416@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> mk568652@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Mitchell Kotler) writes:
>> Yes! That's what I've been saying all along!  But there are certain Jews
>on this net who cannot see that.  They don't understand that there are non-
>Jewish readers of this group as well, thus making it look as if Jews believe 
>and accept their stereotypes.  I am only taking the jokes seriously because
>the audience is not strictly Jewish. I am saying "be responsible" , you "funny"
>people out there.  That means you Maddi.

Chill out, Mitch. Remember, we're not laughing with you, we're
laughing at you.

-- 
Andrew Solovay    
                "I know that, in America and under capitalism,
                 I am the freest woman in history."
                                --- Camille Paglia
From: ucakrvb@ucl.ac.uk (Vijay Bhuchar)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Vijay's Genuine Apology
Date: 16 Dec 92 16:31:29 GMT
Organization: Bloomsbury Computing Consortium

I just wanted to apologize for posting Messianic 
literature in SCJ.

I will continue over in the correct forum which is
alt.messianic and hope that I continue to receive as 
much mail as I did although hopefully from those of you
who want genuine dialogue on the topic.

My first article was in a response to a question 
* What is Messianic Judaism? * I showed you the Daniel 9 
prophecy which is winning the Orthodox over in their 100's.

My follow ups were in response either to news items or e-mail
(i.e. you said there was no crucifixion prophecy and I showed it 
to you etc. etc)

I will get round to sending e-mail enquirers a standard reply soon 

Follow me on alt.messianic and I will show you other proofs of
Messiahship of Jeez and I will at some point answer the question
* Why do Christians evangelize Jews? * 

Believe me you think you know the answer but you dont.
Its got something to do with an unfulfilled prophecy
Zecheriah 13:8-9.

See you on a.m hopefully 

Vijay
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish