HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bukovins@rtsg.mot.com (Dave Bukovinsky)
Subject: Surprised at ISBN response
Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 21:27:25 GMT


I am a little surprised at the responses I have received to my request for
an ISBN database...

The most useful suggestion to date has been to telnet to dra.com, where they
have a database server set up - however, it doesn't appear to be nearly
comprehensive enough for my needs...
(in other words I entered the ISBN #'s from a random sampling of my
fiction collection and none of them were found - some of which were 1992
best sellers....)

An internet telnet-type service does not provide me with a suitable
solution anyway - the connect time required to search for some 1500 ISBN
numbers would be ridiculous...

What I am ideally looking for are CD-Roms from book publishers, etc that
have the ISBN databases on them, so that I can perform the indexing
on my own PC. Another alternative would be database files that I could
ftp to my PC and manipulate there...

Am I the first person to ever think about indexing their book collection?
I would think that someone else would have done this.....
(e.g. how are book stores keeping track of their inventory ?)

--dave

PS. Pleeeaaassseee - no more suggestions to check with my local library ;-)


-- 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Bukovinsky   bukovins@rtsg.mot.com    (708) 632-4410
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mtaranto@panix.com (Mark Taranto)
Subject: Paul & his Babe (was Re: Homeschooling
Organization: The Inner Clique
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 03:54:44 GMT


In article <1993Jan4.203556.7692@ninja.zso.dec.com> 


Tom Maddox (tmaddox@netcom.com) writes:

> rcrowley@donne.zso.dec.com (Rebecca Crowley) writes:

>> One of the ones acquired comparatively late focused on American
>> folklore:  Paul Bunyan and the like.  I'm interested in finding other
>> sources for these tales.  

>	A bunch of dead fuckers.

>	You're welcome,

Given the recent "Spinster with Books" thread, I should think that 
dead virgins would be a more appropriate response.  If estate sales
fail, I might suggest a trip to Hibbing Minnesota, home of Paul Bunyon
and Babe the Blue Ox.

Why, I remember the winter that was so cold that when we talked, the 
words froze, and we had to wait until spring to hear what people said.


Mark
From: engelson-sean@cs.yale.edu (Sean P. Engelson)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Legal theory, Homophobia, and the Bible
Date: 10 Jan 1993 16:27:06 -0500
Organization: Yale AI Mobile Robotics Project
Distribution: world
Reply-To: engelson-sean@cs.yale.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: argentina.ai.cs.yale.edu

In article <1993Jan6.184309.5416@netcom.com>, tmaddox@netcom.com (Tom Maddox) writes:
|> 	Once I thought that Dawkins' notion of a meme--introduced, I believe,
|> in _The Selfish Gene_ some years ago-- was a metaphor, perhaps
|> illuminating, perhaps misleading.  However, several years' experience on
|> Usenet have led me to the conclusion that memetic transmission and infection
|> are as real as any other kind.  
|> 
|> 	For instance, this group has suffered several outbreaks recently,
|> including the in-crowd/newbie virus, the robust randroid virus, the 
|> currently dormant Zeleny/gay virus, etc.  I predict this new outbreak--
|> the homophobe virus--will spread rapidly.

Operating on the assumption that Tom here is replying to my post, and
the assumption that the phrase "the homophobe virus" refers to a
memetic virus consisting of homophobia (rather than merely concerning
it), I must take exception to Tom's implied characterization of me as
a homophobe.  I am nothing of the sort, rather my views on civil
rights legislation lead me to oppose stop-gap piecemeal legislation
whose sole purpose is to please the currently powerful interest
groups, rather than aim at a comprehensive solution to the problem.
Current political practice seems to favour this approach generally, to
the detriment of us all.  There are no statesmen today, only political
hacks.  Alas.


ObBook:
	Halo_ was pretty good, Tom.  Keep it up.
-- 
Sean Philip (Shlomo) Engelson		
Yale Department of Computer Science	
Box 2158 Yale Station			
New Haven, CT 06520
From: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Jim Mann)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Paul Johnson (was Paglia)
Date: 8 Jan 93 14:41:15 GMT
Reply-To: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com
Organization: Stratus Computer Inc, Marlboro MA
NNTP-Posting-Host: gondolin.pubs.stratus.com

In article <C0J5yp.Du@news.iastate.edu> s1mbm@isuvax.iastate.edu  
(michael bruce mcdonald) writes:
> In article <1ijesiINNiav@phakt.usc.edu>, rhogan@phakt.usc.edu (Ron  
Hogan) writes:
> >Tim Starr writes:
> >in response to Ron H>
> >>}It's like the Albert Goldman school of intellectual history--  
not so much
> >>}sunlight being the best disnfectant as dragging historical  
figures through
> >>}the mud.
> >
> >>They dragged themselves through the mud.  Johnson just exposed  
it.
> >
> >That, of course, hinges on whether or not we agree on the nature  
of 'mud'.
> 
> 
> "The progress toward totalitarianism arose, and continues to arise,  
because of
> society's refusal to be shit!"   --Kathy Acker, "left" postmodern  
writer of
>                                                 unusual fiction
> 
> 
> "The intellectuals Johnson degrades are great precisely because  
they were
> willing to explore the mud."     --mbm

But Johnson wasn't criticizing them for "exploring the mud."  He
condemned many of them for treating the people around them
like crap (the section on Brecht made my skin crawl).  

Were Brecht, Hellman et al exploring the mud when the said
things like "If Stalin held purges, then he must have had
a good reason for it."  (Sounds a lot like the right wing
fanatics of today, who refuse to condemn right wing dictatorships,
no matter how awful they act.)  Was Brecht exploring the mud
when he bullied the woman he was living with to accompany him
on a long trip despite the fact that she was suffering from
a nasty illness? (She died as a result of the trip.)  And so on.

--
Jim Mann            
Stratus Computer   jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com  
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin)
Subject: Re: Paglia
Originator: mnemonic@eff.org
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 14:12:11 GMT

In article <C0IyE5.KAJ@news.iastate.edu> s1mbm@isuvax.iastate.edu writes:

>As someone having difficulty gaining a foothold in
>academia, I can understand her frustration with the manner in which her
>career was sabotaged (in her view), but to blame the initial career problems
>she experienced on a conspiracy of arch-feminists strikes me as both
>irresponsible and immature.

I don't think she's blaming anything on a "conspiracy" in the normal
meaning of the term. What she's saying is that the unfashionable
heterodoxy of her views hurt her career. Speaking as a former lit.
graduate student, I think she's probably right.

>Moreover, given the fact that she has *now*
>achieved a rare level of success and notoriety, her constant whining is
>undignified.

But the thing to note about her success is that she achieved in spite of
the usual scheme of academic advancement; she did an end run around the
hiring and tenure committees.


--Mike



-- 
Mike Godwin,    |"I'm waiting for the one-man revolution
mnemonic@eff.org| The only one that's coming."
(617) 864-0665  |                           
EFF, Cambridge  |                   --Robert Frost
From: rcrowley@donne.zso.dec.com (Rebecca Crowley)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Women Writers (was: Cross-Writing)
Date: 6 Jan 93 21:16:27 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]

Diane Olsen (olsen@Csli.Stanford.EDU) wrote:

: P.S. -- Speaking of cross-writing, I'm nearly finished Richardson's 
: _Pamela_.  Does anyone else find the plot in this book just a little,
: uh, implausible?

Heh.  Didn't Henry Fielding spoof this one?  _Shamela_, I think,
but I have no proof to hand. 

--
Rebecca Crowley	 --  spreading memes in .sigs  --  Standard Disclaimers Apply	
	    Safety or self-determination.  Choose one.  NOW.
	rcrowley@zso.dec.com	selene@blegga.cac.washington.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: kasprj@jec304.its.rpi.edu (Jim Kasprzak)
Subject: Re: BOOK TITLE REQUEST
Reply-To: kasprj@rpi.edu
Organization: The Big Wedge 
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 19:17:41 GMT

In article <1993Jan6.014015.41436@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu>, arc2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (AMY CHARLES) writes:
|> 
|>     This one's eluded me for almost ten years, now.  It's vaguely SF, set in
|>     England, protagonist is a boy about thirteen.  A disease resembling
|>     progeria sweeps the country and he's one of three, I think, left.  One of
|>     the most striking images was his school enemy, a redhead who wore a
|>     canary-yellow vest, prematurely aged.  I seem to remember something about
|>     a charwoman's daughter near the end.  Reads a lot like Christopher
|>     Whatshisname, the one who wrote the Tripod books (Beyond the Burning
|>     Lands, etc.)
 
 Shoot, I hope someone can give you the title, because you've just jarred
it loose from my own memory. I'm almost certain that the author was 
John Christopher. Your best bet is to try your local library's "young adult"
section under his name.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: wismith@amelia.nas.nasa.gov (William R. Smith)
Subject: Re: Legal theory, Homophobia, and the Bible
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 93 21:20:00 GMT

Tom Maddox writes:

	the robust randroid virus...
 
	In particular, is it possible or desirable for r.a.b.
	(and by extension, other groups) to defend itself from
	unwanted memes?  Is there any way of establishing that a
	meme is in fact "unwanted"?  Also, what are the early warning
	signs of memetic infection?  



OH, NO.  I'm afraid you've done it now.  Just mentioning the "R"
word is likely to let slip the "r" virus.  Often someone new to r.a.b.
mentions the "R" word and that's the stimulus for unleasing the newbie
virus as well.  They may have to run their course.

I particularly loath the "r" virus.  It seems to have an emitic affect
on people.

Best to avoid drafts, wet feet, and night air.



William Sburgfort Smith
Intel, SSD
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin)
Subject: Re: Paglia (was: Cross-Writing)
Originator: mnemonic@eff.org
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 12:29:41 GMT

In article <1993Jan7.073501.4999@genie.slhs.udel.edu> starr@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Tim Starr) writes:

>I didn't take Johnson's thesis therein to be that at all.  For one thing,
>the sample was hardly representative of the great shapers of modern thought
>(e.g., only one of the great state-of-nature political philosophers, Rousseau,
>was included, neither Hobbes, who had chronological priority, nor Locke,
>who arguably has had greater influence).  It seemed to me much more that
>Johnson wished to expose some corruption in Western intelligentsia on the
>theory that sunlight is the best disinfectant.

Oh, this is nonsense, Tim. The scandals of Bertrand Russell's life give us
absolutely nothing useful in evaluating his work. Ditto for everyone else
Paul Johnson sets out to trash. 

Johnson makes clear that he hopes to diminish the influence of his
subjects by exposing their personal lives. It is an unprincipled tactic.


--Mike




-- 
Mike Godwin,    |"I'm waiting for the one-man revolution
mnemonic@eff.org| The only one that's coming."
(617) 864-0665  |                           
EFF, Cambridge  |                   --Robert Frost 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: blaisec@sr.hp.com (Blaise Cirelli)
Subject: Re: The WORST novel ever written?
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 17:21:39 GMT
Organization: HP Sonoma County (SRSD/MWTD/MID)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.9 PL6]


I nominate the following:

 _ Lord of the Flies - mechanical and clumsy
 - Armies of the Night - Mailer's ego at full-stage
 - Gravity's Rainbow - Pynchon can stay hidden for all I care
   

  

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: ecl@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (Evelyn C. Leeper)
Subject: Re: Homophobia (really not about  Homeschooling)
Organization: na
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 21:17:22 GMT

In article <1993Jan7.165601.10496@credence.com> johne@or.credence.com (John Ewing) writes:
> The intent of these measures was not to take away "equal protection" from
> some "minority" groups.
> 
> The intent is to prevent certain people, that exhibit "certain behaviors"
> (read: "any unique behavior at all that one choses to engage in -- e.g.
> reading mystery novels"), from gaining an unfair advantage under the law
> that the rest of the population does not enjoy (the behavior being focused
> on here is sexual activity with another of the same sex).  In fact, I
> would go so far as to say that the reason these measures were put on the
> ballet is to insure equal protection under the law to all citizens.

Assume for a moment that CO2 had said:
  NO PROTECTED STATUS BASED ON JEWISH OR MUSLIM RELIGIOUS OBSERVANCE.
  Neither the State of Colorado, through any of its branches or
  departments, nor any of its agencies, political subdivisions,
  municipalities or school districts, shall enact, adopt or enforce any
  statute, regulation, ordinance or policy whereby Jewish or Muslim
  orientation, conduct, practices or relationships shall constitute or
  otherwise be the basis of, or entitle any person or class of persons to
  have or claim any minority status, quota preferences, protected status
  or claim of discrimination.  This Section of the Constitution shall be
  in all respects self-executing.

Would you still claim that this was designed to "prevent one group from
gaining an unfair advantage under the law that the rest of the
population does not enjoy" and to "insure equal protection under the
law to all citizens"?  Really?

Had CO2 listed heterosexuality as also barring one from a claim to "any
minority status, quota preferences, protected status or claim of
discrimination," I might (*might*) actually believe that someone might
think it was intended to provide equal protection to all.  As it stands
it clearly does not.

As I have said many times, if people would run statements about gays
and lesbians through a filter that substituted "Jews" and/or "blacks"
for "gays/lesbians" and then read the results and asked themselves,
"Does this sound bigoted?" we might be saved a lot of silly posts.

Evelyn C. Leeper  |  +1 908 957 2070  |  att!mtgzy!ecl or  ecl@mtgzy.att.com
--
"To make the point [that homosexuals hamper military effectiveness] I'd
say that you would have to sift through your military history till you
find an instance in which failure has been attributed to the presence
of homosexuals on the losing side.  I'm not aware of any such case in
the past 2500 years, but I'd be interested to hear what you find."
-Nathan Engle
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy)
Subject: Re: Paglia
Reply-To: jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
Date: 8 Jan 93 16:14:11

Heather Henderson includes:


     In the excellent book _The Warrior Queens_, Antonia Fraser
     examines the subject of male (and female) reaction to
     strong, loud, aggressive women.  The chapter on Margaret
     Thatcher is of special interest; Fraser discusses how many
     of Thatcher's (liberal) foes called her "fishwife" because
     of her "strident" speeches in the House of Commons,
     something a male politician would never be called.

You have to understand that Margaret Thatcher doesn't count as
a "woman prime minister", because she didn't get that office
via the approved method: affirmative action.  Therefore, attacks
on her should not be resented by women.
--
John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305
*
He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Paglia
Date: 8 Jan 93 21:20:42 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1993Jan8.212042.5346
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1993Jan8.202758.16521@eff.org> mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin) writes:
>>Why is it a constant source of comment in Paglia's case?  Ask yourself if
>>you'd be so quick to characterize her that way if she were a man.
>I would just as quick to do so. Her extravagance in self-praise is the
>equal of, say, Norman Mailer's.

I'd claim that in Mailer's case, claims of extravagance as much represent
wonderment and mild amusement as any negative evaluation.  There's something
about pride and self-promotion which is viewed affectionately when it comes
from a male--"that's my boy", yet is imbued with negative overtones when
such behavior is observed in women.  Or so it seems to me.  This is not
to say that all sorts of men aren't dismissed as pompous jerks, but they're
_expected_ to be so, in a way that isn't the case for women.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin)
Subject: Re: Paglia (was: Cross-Writing)
Originator: mnemonic@eff.org
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 14:34:05 GMT

For those who are interested in a balanced criticism of Camille Paglia,
including a discussion of her contradictions and some praise for her
virtues, see the January 25 issue of THE NEW REPUBLIC. Louis Menand has
written an excellent review of SEX, ART, AND AMERICAN CULTURE.

The issue is already available to subscribers; it should be on the stands
by next week at the latest.


--Mike



-- 
Mike Godwin,    |"I'm waiting for the one-man revolution
mnemonic@eff.org| The only one that's coming."
(617) 864-0665  |                           
EFF, Cambridge  |                   --Robert Frost 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: msmorris@watsci.UWaterloo.ca (Mike Morris)
Subject: Re: Homophobia 
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 17:50:39 GMT

                                   Friday, the 8th of January, 1993

Gene Ward Smith writes at me:
  Since heterosexuals are a collectivity, and since in your support for
  Colorado #2 you are advocating granting special rights to
  heterosexuals, this is a contradiction to the above.  In a previous
  post, you involved yourself in a related self-contradiction: you
  advocated legislation saying that gays and lesbians should not be
  given a special status vis a vis rights.  However, any legislation
  which singles out these sexual orientations would necessarily give
  them a special status.

Umm, I explained I would support CO2 precisely because I think it does
not advocate granting special privileges to heterosexuals. Perhaps
you could explain how it in fact does grant heterosexuals such privileges?
Again, I'm quite willing to change my mind about this. But, as
far as I can see, the only thing CO2 does is says that a homosexual
cannot have access to special privileges *by virtue of being
homosexual*. It doesn't say that he can't have access to special
privileges by reason of any other respect of his person. Nor does it
say that heterosexuals can have access to special privileges because
they are heterosexual.

  A more consistent position would be to argue that no special status be
  granted to anyone on the grounds of sexual orientation.  I've seen few
  signs that very many heterosexuals are contemplating giving up certain
  special rights they now enjoy (e.g. adoption, marriage) however.

Well, again, I would be much happier with this than with CO2 as it now
is. Personally, though, I would strongly support removing any sort of
heterosexual exclusivity from the law in regards to marriage or
adoption.

  In order not to spread unwanted memes, I've re-directed this to
  alt.politics.homosexuality.

I'm afraid I enjoy spreading them, Gene. And, since I don't read
alt.politics.homosexuality, I'm unwilling to transfer the discussion
therewards. (Besides, as long as we keep the subject line unchanged
anybody who wants to can give this an easy miss, and Heather and Mike
and company are having such a lovely discussion about Paglia---I
am especially enjoying both Heather's and Mike's postings---that
I almost feel like the group has been getting too heavy with
discussion of books or something.)

                   Mike Morris
           (msmorris@watsci.uwaterloo.ca)


Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: chucks@uars2.acd.ucar.edu (Chuck Smythe)
Subject: Re: Reading as an addiction 
Organization: Ntl Center for Atmospheric Research, Atmospheric Chemistry
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 18:37:03 GMT

In article <1992Dec31.210824.222@blaze.cs.jhu.edu> callahan@lost-boy.cs.jhu.edu (Paul Callahan) writes:

 One of the things I try to do is to limit myself to books that offer something 
 new or challenging.  I stopped reading SF a few years ago, for the most part, 
 because I felt that most of the new books I read had little to add to the
 genre.  Modern SF authors tend to make a better attempt at character development
 than those of the "Golden Age," but if I'm looking for this sort of thing, I'd 
 rather go with authors who make it their primary purpose; I don't need the 
 sugar-coating.  I like general non-fiction as well, whether or not it's 
 especially well-written, because it acts as raw data for drawing analogies and 
 understanding things in new terms.  

Now THERE are the makings of an interesting thread.  OK, fellow bookaholics,
just why do you read so much?  What does it add to your lives?  

I read mostly non-fiction, as much as possible in areas unfamiliar to me.
My purpose is pretty close to Mr. Callahan's "raw data for drawing analogies
and understanding things in new terms."  I want to understand as broadly as
possible what sort of place the world is, and what sort of creatures we
humans are, so that I can live in as wide a context as possible. And make
decisions based on as much information as possible.  And not miss out on any
more really wonderful things out there than I must.

Next?         

  		Chuck Smythe
From: pnh@panix.com (Patrick Nielsen-Hayden)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: REQUEST: book title
Date: 5 Jan 93 01:49:18 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: fwa


TIME AND AGAIN by Jack Finney.  Remarkably, it's in print, from Simon &
Schuster's Fireside trade-paperback imprint.

-----
Patrick Nielsen Hayden       :      senior editor, Tor Books
pnh@panix.com * CIS: 72701,1344 * GEnie: PNH * opinions mine
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: msmorris@watsci.UWaterloo.ca (Mike Morris)
Subject: Re: Homophobia
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 16:09:22 GMT

                                       Saturday, the 9th of January, 1993

Steve Dyer writes:
 Tell me, Morris, do you think blacks have "special privileges" because they
 are black?  I wanna hear you say it.  It'll be really, really satisfying
 to hear you say that.  John Stuart Mill, indeed!  It is to gasp with
 astonishment.

Tell me first, Steve, whether or not you think affirmative action,
and its legal sanction, awards special privileges to blacks because
they are black.

                   Mike Morris
          (msmorris@watsci.uwaterloo.ca)

Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:24317 sci.logic:2551