HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dal3@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (dale.e.parson)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Svea 123R (was: MSR Stoves - Whisperlite Int'l. vs. X-)
Date: 28 Aug 92 17:36:59 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbfsb.1992Aug28.173659.13591
Distribution: usa
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Aug28.011808.19769@morrow.stanford.edu> HF.MMS@forsythe.stanford.edu (Mark Skubik) writes:
>Hi,
>
>I've been using my SVEA since 1971 (cost me $11 at the time) and
>it's been a really good little stove.  I can't begin to figure
>how many meals we've made together over the years.
>
....
>
>Just a note about all of this priming talk:  For 20 years
>I have primed my SVEA by lighting a match or lighter under
>her, heating the fuel tank a little.  Then, with flame out,
>you open the valve, let a little gas flow into the priming
>cup, close the valve, light the fuel, let it burn a little
>to warm up the burner stem, then open the valve again and
>fire up the stove.  Mind you, you have to know and trust
>your equipment, but this is the real crazy-person way of
>doing it, and it works well.  It also scares the shit out
>of anyone watching you for the first time, so it is a good
>way to build a reputation among noephites, should you need
>one.

I bought mine in 71 as well, and I'm sorry to say it was packed in 
assorted damp basements for about the last 13 years (kids,
work+graduate school and all). I've mostly been day hiking
and orienteering. The description above sounds almost verbatim like
the description Colin Fletcher gave in one of his books back then for
lighting the thing. One of two things I remember from that book
(the other was about freeze-dried foods making you fart).

Anyway, the point of this post is that I dug my Svea out of the damp
basement last week after 13 years of disuse, because we have an
orienteering training weekend coming up. It still had its old
white gas in it (to my surprise), so I wrapped the top in toilet
paper, set it afire, let it burn out, open the valve, and the gas
came spraying up better than I remember it ever doing. I closed it,
lit the gas, opened it up, and we're on our way. I'm satisfied.



Dale Parson, Bell Labs, dale@mhcnet.att.com

 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
|    "These words are too solid, they don't move fast enough           |
|     to catch the blur in the brain that flies by, and is gone..."    |
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------
|     Suzanne Vega                                                     |
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: fholtsberry@oavax.csuchico.edu (Fran Holtsberry)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Source for reflector oven
Date: 27 Aug 92 23:53:14 GMT
Organization: California State University, Chico

I usually make my own. If you are car camping, you can use a cardboard box 
and three wire coathangers and some heavy duty foil and make a great 
reflector oven.

I have seen them made with 4 or 5 cooky sheets and some wire. (this takes 
predrilling and some bolts and wingnuts).

And I have made primitive ones with forked sticks and wire and foil.

I agree that $70 is too much to spend on a reflector oven.


Fran Holtsberry,
Fran_holtsberry@macgate.csuchico.edu

-_-Good design is not a default setting-_-
From: alpope@skids.Eng.Sun.COM (Alan L. Pope)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: accessible = !wilderness (WAS Re: Oreg
Date: 27 Aug 92 08:02:59 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: ba
Reply-To: alpope@skids.Eng.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: skids.eng.sun.com


>An entry ban could be temporary, with the intent of allowing the area heal
>and evolve for 5 or 10 or ?? years, and then letting people back in to see
>what has changed ...  fires, floods, new species, etc.  Sort of like a
>time capsule (do not open until 2010).

This reminds of a question I wanted to ask.  Anyone know what kind of research
UCB is conducting in The Hall, area next to (part of) Hoover Wilderness where
no one is allowed to stay overnight and other restrictions?


---
I respect a man who knows how to spell a word more than one way.  -- Mark Twain
					Alan Pope <alan.pope@Eng.Sun.COM>
Twain, unfortunately, had no way to anticipate Dan Quayle.


Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: ekp@mcnc.org (Edward Pavelchek)
Subject: Re: Water treatment article from Am J Pub Health (1989)
Organization: Good place for a disclaimer
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 20:46:22 GMT

In article <01050131.cm59r9@mariposa.stonecutter.com> sawtelle@stonecutter.com writes:
>I wish it came with a cap that sealed off the entire "clean" end of the
>filter so that there is no chance of contaminating that clean end with
>the inlet hose end during storage. I developed various paranoid habits

Sure hope you never get caught in mist or spray from a waterfall!

-- 
Ed Pavelchek   ekp@mcnc.org
But I make a profit of 3 1/4 cents an egg by selling them for 4 1/4
cents an egg to the people in Malta I buy them from for 7 cents an egg.
Of course, *I* don't make the profit.          Joseph Heller, Catcha 22
From: johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Custom boots in the West
Date: 1 Sep 92 00:08:32 GMT
Organization: Auspex Systems, Inc.

In article <BtvBGK.48o@cup.hp.com> morrison@cup.hp.com (Bobbie_Morrison) writes:
|
|I've been moaning and groaning about my boots for the last 3 or 4 years
|(since I moved to CA) and I'm finally determined to do something about it.
|See, the problem is that I have kind of strange feet.

She's not kidding.  I've seen them.

Hi Bobbie.

   So I'm getting
|serious about getting some custom boots made.  While I'm aware of 
|Limmer Boots from somewhere in the East (I actually have their brochure)
|I would prefer to find some place out west to get them made so that I could
|visit them personally.  
|
|Sept. 4th I'm heading out to Salt Lake City, then City of Rocks Idaho, then
|back this way to the Sierra.  So if someone recommended some custom boot
|maker in Utah/Idaho/Nevada/CA  I could conceivably drop by.
|
|Does anyone know of any custom boot makers in the West?  Have any 
|experience with them?  Thanks very much for any info.  Please email if
|possible since we are leaving this Friday and responses might not make it
|to the net.

Just a possibility but it seems that there are a lot of custom boot 
makers that make cowboy boots.  As a last resort you might try contacting
one of them.  Perhaps a field trip to the Saddlerack might be in order to
investigate this further.

-- 
+============================================================================++
| John Fereira            "Is that all you ever think about?"                |
| johnf@auspex.com                                                           |
+============================================================================++
From: ffjal@alaska.edu (John Lehman)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Off to Alaska on Sunday!! (And eventualy to Denali...)
Date: 4 Sep 92 16:22:05 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Alaska Fairbanks

In article <1992Sep3.200705.4685@cc.gatech.edu> goldsman@cc.gatech.edu
 writes: ..
>
>Can someone also  recommend a good Camping store where I can get 
>propane/butane cartrages for my stove?
>
The best camping store in Los Anchorage is probably REI.  "reasonably priced"
and "hotel room" are not terms that can be used together during the tourist
season in Alaska, especially with the record crowds this year. (NB there is a
difference between "cheap" and "reasonably priced")
From: trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Reading this group too much
Date: 3 Sep 92 23:54:25 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department

In article <700@aardvark.Rain.COM> shawn@Aardvark.Rain.COM (Shawn Allen) writes:
>trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna) writes:
>
>>In article <1992Aug27.175518.2450@colorado.edu> sherod@news.Colorado.EDU (Scott Herod) writes:
>>>and you wonder how they decide which tread designs have the least
>>>effect on the enviroment.
>
>>These shoes have low impact soles.  The soles fall apart on your way to
>>the backcountry, so you change your mind about going.
>
>
>                             ^^^^^ souls


Some shoes have low impact SOLES, I'm told.  Some back-country
enthusiasts have low impact SOULS.

-- 

-Wayne Trzyna
 trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,news.answers
From: dadams@cray.com (David Adams)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: No dogs in Natl Parks
Date: 28 Aug 92 17:01:47 GMT
Reply-To: dadams@cray.com
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.

In article 1950042@hpgrla.gr.hp.com, edb@hpgrla.gr.hp.com (Ed Beshore) writes:
|Regarding dogs in the backcountry.....
|
|
|I understand that some folks consider their animals part of the
|family, but remember those animals don't get the aesthetic
|pleasure of parks like we do.  Since the National Parks are
|a shared resource, and there are plenty of places that do
|allow dogs, I just can't be sympathetic to those who object
|to the ban.
|

And I cannot be sympathetic to those who want to extend the ban to
ALL backcountry areas.

---
--David C. Adams  Statistician  Cray Research Inc.  dadams@cray.com
___________________________________________________________________
       member--Minnesotans for Global Warming.
From: Ecology Center Fund <ecologycntr@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Date: 29 Aug 92 10:10 PDT
Subject: Re: Top notch outdoor gear in SF?
Nf-ID: #R:Btp8G8.8s3@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca:1324500733:cdp:1449600028:000:581
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!ecologycntr    Aug 29 10:10:00 1992


You've forgotten WILDERNESS EXCHANGE
1617 & 1730 San Pablo Avenue
Berkeley.

Used, New, and Seconds in clothing, tents, equipment, back issues
of Backpacker, etc.

This year I scored a wonderful down jacket there for 25 bucks.

REI Berkeley's Attic (their returned goods sale department) is good
too, though not as reliable as W.E. Wouldja believe a pair
of new "used" Kastinger mountaineering boots for <40 dollars?
(Evidently someone got them to wear on a three-day, and swore off
hiking forever as a result.  It's been three years, and I've almost got
them broken in :))

chris
From: tremme@carson.u.washington.edu (Tom Remmers)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Info on Absorca Wild in MT
Date: 2 Sep 92 19:01:25 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Sep2.190125.12649
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

A friend is trying to convince me to go to the Absorca (sp?)
Wilderness just north of Yellowstone in Montana for a 5 day trip.
Any comments as to how spectacular the scenery, any peaks for
climbing, any fish to catch and eat, any loop trails ~50 miles,
the # for the ranger station, etc.  And, considering my lack of     
bear-country experience, the local scoop on the Ursine population.
Q:  Are there any soaps bears don't notice?

Tom Remmers
remmers@u.washington.edu
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: dsc@gemini.tmc.edu (Doug S. Caprette Bldg. 28 W191 x3892)
Subject: Ski touring along Skyline Drive, VA
Organization: NASA GSFC CDP VLBI
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 20:55:56 GMT


I recently learned that ski touring is permitted along Sthe Northern segment of
Skyline Drive.  Has any out there had any experience/recommendations?

dsc@gemini.gsfc.nasa.gov  
 |  Regards,         |   Hughes STX                |    Code 926.9 GSFC        |
 |  Doug Caprette    |   Lanham, Maryland          |    Greenbelt, MD  20771   |
 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Po-ta-toes -- the Gaffer's delight, and rare good ballast 
 for an empty belly."             -- Samwise Gamgee
From: johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: No dogs in Natl Parks
Date: 31 Aug 92 19:49:38 GMT
Organization: Auspex Systems, Inc.

In article <1992Aug31.141415.28194@ncar.ucar.edu> chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu writes:
|Of the few times I have been with my girlfriends dog in the
|backcountry, I would say neither.  The dog did not enhance
|nor detract from the experience.  The dog was just another
|member of the party.  As for the tent issue, I just happen to
|have a vestibule for Elvis (don't know why anyone would buy a
|tent without one).

Are you saying that :

"Elvis is alive and sleeping in a vestibule in the backcountry"

-- 
+============================================================================++
| John Fereira            "Is that all you ever think about?"                |
| johnf@auspex.com                                                           |
+============================================================================++
From: paulw@ieor-next1.Berkeley.EDU (Paul Worhach)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Backpacking in Hawaii (Islands)
Date: 23 Aug 1992 20:35:24 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: ieor-next1.berkeley.edu

I'm starting to plan a backcountry trip for sometime in November somewhere
in the Hawaiian islands.  I'm thinking of the Na Pali Coast on Kauii, and
I have several questions:

- how does one get to the trailhead at Na Pali?  I'd like to avoid the
coast of a rented car, and I've heard that its hard to even rent if the
company knows your going into the backcountry.

- what is the weather like during this off season?  I know that Kauii is one
of the rainier islands.

- any other sugesstions for a 7-10 day trip, preferably along a coast, as
opposed to into the mountains such as at Volcanos N.P.

Thanks!
paul
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: allen%asylum.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Allen Sanderson)
Subject: Re: No dogs in Natl Parks
Date: 25 Aug 92 19:56:16 MDT
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept

>jjh00@outs.ccc.amdahl.com (Joel J. Hanes) writes:
>: 
>: It's _illegal_ to take them into National Parks.
>: This doesn't dissuade you?
>
>scott@hpcvccl.cv.hp.com (Scott Linn) writes:
>It sure didn't dissuade people I saw last week in Redwood Nat. Park in CA.
>
>People would walk (with their dogs, not on leash even) right past LARGE
>signs stating that no dogs were allowed, period.
>
>This also happened at an Oregon State Park I went to.  Same scenario.  Very
>similar signs.
>
>Except,  in this situation, the dog ran from its owners and faced off in
>front of me, barking extremely loudly.  My wife nearly had a heart attack
>right there (it happened so fast, she didn't even know a dog was in the
>area until it *loudly* barked only a couple feet away).  The owners just
>laughed.  The dog kept on barking and running at me, to make me move.
>He kept running back and forth until he ran past us on the trail, and
>came at us from the other direction.  If either of us had flinched, he
>probably would have bitten us.

I usually have an adverse reaction when something like happens.  My
foot goes up in the air at a very high velocity.  Only when the dog
is front of it, you would be surprised at how far you can kick a dog.
Then in a load voice I tell the person to get their dog on a leash
like the sign says.  My housemate tore a strip out a guy and his kids
when they were cutting across a replanted area in a park one time.  He
made sure that everybody around could hear him. The public embarrassment
was enough to make the guy and his kids behave themselves.  I would
not reccomend this unless you are willing to have a more serrious
confrontation sometimes.

Othertimes when the animal has been a little less anoying I just tell
the owners to leash it.  Sometimes it works sometimes is doesn't.  One
thing many dog owners do not realize is that although they know their
dog is "well behaved" others do not.  My housemates dog loved to go up
and greet people.  Unfortunately, her happy go lucky bounds up to people
seemed a bit a wild at times.  I was usually very embarrassed when I
had her out (without a leash) on a trail when did this.  Fortunately
she was keep on a very short verbal leash but still I know others did
not appreciate it either way.

I have mixed feelings about dogs being anywhere with out a leash, some
are okay others should be left at home along with their owners.

Cheers,

Allen R. Sanderson

Salt Lake City, Oootah


"I though you brought the rope"
	A climber to their partner after hiking in 10 miles.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: vsh@etnibsd.uucp (Steve Harris)
Subject: Adirondacks Preservation (was: Saranac Lake Islands camping)
Organization: Eaton Corp, Semiconductor Equipment Div., Beverly, MA
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 18:44:36 GMT

In article <1992Aug25.152548.8802@bnr.ca> Tim Dudley <dudley.chi@xerox.com> writes:
>Just got back from a week of camping on the Lower Saranac lake, 
>and thought I'd warn people off of it.  The lake is gorgeous, with 
>campgrounds on the islands, but the lake is/was full of power boats,
>water skiers, and bass boats, most of the time at speed.  One cluster
>of four bass boat owners had a generator running most of the night
>(in order to light their party, I guess), and spent considerable time
>during the day having races.
>
>All in all, it was without question the noisiest week I've had outdoors
>ever, anywhere.  I'd strongly recommend that, unless you're into
>power boats, that you avoid the place like the plague.
>
>Tim


[ please forgive the misspellings and lack of complete information, ]
[ I just want to get this posted while I have the time.             ]

If, like me, you are appalled by the trashing of the "forever wild"
Adirondack Park, consider supporting the Audubon Society's campaign to
rein-in the rampant development of the privately owned parcels of land
within the park.

Also worth supporting is the Appalachian Mountain Club's project to
preserve the "Great North Woods", an area including northern New York,
Vermont, New Hampshire, and Maine (the most recent issue of "Appalachia
Bullitin" contains a report on this effort).

I'm not completely up-to-date on the recent history of Adirondack park
politics, but it seems that a conservative Republican state senator
from Plattsburgh has singlehandedly blocked the (severly watered down)
park management plan submitted by Gov. Cuomo.

(Funny how "conservative" no longer means "conservationist".)

Because about 60% of the park is privately owned, severe development
pressures are being applied by the second-home/condo development
industry.  Without development controls, every inch of lakefront is
threatened, leading to the kind of "wilderness experience" Tim
describes.

Saranac lake is already lost, however, there are literally thousands of
lakes and ponds in the Adirondacks which have not been despoiled;
unless pressure is brought to counter the tactics of the pro-
development politicians, our grandchildren will never have the chance
to experience what (despite Tim's experience) is still a spectacular
and beautiful wilderness.

For more info:

	Audubon Society
	950 3rd Ave.
	New York, NY  10022
	212-832-3200

	Appalachian Mountain Club
	5 Joy St.
	Boston, MA 02108
	617-523-0636

-- 
... Steve Harris - Eaton Corp. - Beverly, MA - uunet!etnibsd!vsh
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: phil@mailhub.scf.lmsc.lockheed.com (Phil English)
Subject: Re: Top notch outdoor gear in SF?
Organization: Lockheed Santa Cruz, CA.
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 21:24:42 GMT

In article <Btp8G8.8s3@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca> molnar@Bisco.CAnet.CA (Tom Molnar) writes:


	MARMOT MOUNTAINEERING, ADALINE ST., BERKLEY
		The High Temple of The Mountain: quality ($$$$$$)
	THE NORTH FACE, BERKLEY
		Several locations in Berkley
	REI, BERKLEY, CUPERTION
		Good source of good quality stuff, wide selection at fair 
		price. Several locations throughout the Bay Area.
	WESTERN MOUNTAINEERING (DIVISION OF MARMOT)
		San Jose, Winchester Blvd.
From: tut@cairo.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill "Bill" Tuthill)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: REI Water Filters Comparison Chart
Date: 4 Sep 1992 19:06:19 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: cairo

						Timber	Basic
	      Katadyn	MSR	PUR	1stNeed	line	Designs
min pore size	.2	.1	1 + I	.4	2	1
dry weight	23 oz	19 oz	21 oz	14 oz	6 oz	12 oz
seconds/qt	120	90	60	90	70	grav-	(when new)
seconds/qt	120	180	60	180	140	 ity	(after usage)
filter life	1000	500	500	100	100	1000	(in gallons)
cost/gallon	$.25	$.28	$.24	$.37	$.30	$.07
retail price	$225	$140	$130	$ 38	$ 30	$ 65
replacement	$ 89	$ 50	$ 40	$ 24	n/a	$ 40	(filter cost)
# elements	2	4	3	1	1	2
elements	screen	foam	screen	carbon	polypro	carbon
		ceramic	screen	glassfiber		ceramic
			carbon	iodine
			paper

Notes: 1st Need, Timberline, and Basic Designs require iodine to treat
bacteria and viruses.  Katadyn and MSR require iodine to treat viruses.
Only PUR requires no additional iodine.  With carbon elements, only MSR,
1st Need, and Basic Designs remove harmful chemicals.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: mpb@troy.uucp (22161-bunz)
Subject: Re: Outdoor programs for high school kids?
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 92 12:58:32 GMT
Keywords: high school, outdoor, program

In article <104@mipps.myapc.com>, demo@mipps.myapc.com (Demo Account) writes:
> Does anyone have experience developing outdoor programs for 
> high school age kids?  
> 
> While I was president of my college's outing club
> I would often hear people say they wished they could have done more 
> outdoor activities in high school. 
> 
> I live in an area that would be ideal for a high school outing/leadership
> organization.  I would like to know if anyone has already done this and
> if so what kind of success have they had.  I would appreciate any info
> you could send me.
> 
> Thanks..
> 
> Robert M. Hubley
> Systems Analyst 
> MYAPC                      
> 
> 
> 
> hubley@mipps.myapc.com
> 
> 
> 

There are two organizations that fit your bill - the BSA (for boys,
explorers is CO-ED however), and the GSUSA (for girls).

It's too bad many high school kids look down on scouting, they 
are missing out on the chance to do a lot of outdoor activities,
and they miss the leadership experience.

Marc
From: ca855@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Robert Allen Coody)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Harvey Butchart and the Grand Canyon
Date: 3 Sep 1992 15:14:17 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc5.ins.cwru.edu


To those of you who are interested in the Grand Canyo, the Special
Collections Library at NAU in Arizona has finished processing
all of Harvey Butchart's notes, maps, and trail information. It
is a fantastic resource relating to hiking trails, history and 
prehistory of the Grand Canyon.
-- 
Juan de los Caballeros
Time Traveler 1540-?
NAU CFN ETC...        "The Past Lives within the Present" Nemo nd
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: klee@wsl.dec.com (Ken Lee)
Subject: Re: Earthquake in ZION
Reply-To: klee@wsl.dec.com
Organization: DEC Western Software Laboratory
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 92 22:27:51 GMT

|> I heard from someone this morning that there was an earthquake
|> in ZION and the park may be closed. 

The info I heard was that the earthquake was east of Zion, near the
Nevada border.  A landslide may have closed one of the roads into
Zion.  You should call the park for more exact info.
-- 
Ken Lee
DEC Western Software Laboratory, Palo Alto, Calif.
Internet: klee@wsl.dec.com
uucp: uunet!decwrl!klee
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,rec.climbing