From: eugene@amelia.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: [l/m 8/29/92] What is "natural?"	Distilled Wisdom (24/28) XYZ
Followup-To: poster
Organization: NAS Program, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 92 12:20:12 GMT
Reply-To: eugene@amelia.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)

Panel 24

A common thread which underlies the fundamental values in
all backcountry discussions is the issues of what is "natural"
and what is its relation to the "human" state?  For most people,
the "woods" offer a place to see the natural world.  That world
IS "reality."  That is where the recreative effect takes places.
Backcountry recreation is a decidedly sub/urban phenomena.

'What is natural?' implies something made by natural as opposed to
artificial processes.  There is something here.  Polyethelene is
not a substance that is mined from the earth.  It is clearly artificial,
man-made.  It does have advantages, and clear environmental problems.
But yes, it is made from "natural" atoms.  Man is a part of nature.
The issue is the scale (economies) of some of these substances.
See "biodegradability" in the dictionary.

If people annoy you with this weak semantic argument,
use the term "non-artificial."  Then see what they do.

It is recognized that people's tastes form a spectrum of
desired experience.  Setting the local extremes, we have the urban
city dweller who likes the bright lights and big city to the logical
extreme (in discussion and occasional practice) of going into the woods nude
without modern fabrics, gear, etc.  Few do the latter, the majority
prefering a comfortable middle ground.  In all probability none of the former
reads this group.  They have no need.

However, underlying these ideas are two fundamental opinions.  The first
derived a specific reading of Judeo-Christian values that Man has
complete domination of the Earth, sometimes called an "anthropocentric"
view to a view where man is just a visitor in the woods and has equal
footing to the animals and plants which live there.  This results in
the "take only pictures, leave only footprints" view of visitation.
The advantage of the latter is that it allows even future generations
of humans to visit under the same conditions.
Also avoid "anthropomophising" non-artificial objects.  Bambi may be cute,
but giving Bambi a momentary edge can play havoc later in life.

A common argument tactic is for the former to accuse the latter of
placing wild things ABOVE humans.  This is not true.  The latter themselves
acknowledge EQUAL footing for wild things.  The latter become
accused of the "one true path" philosophy.  The former try to
justify their opinions with a rational, balanced approach, frequently
called utilitarian.  A better example is to consider the conceptual
shift from the ideas of Copernicus: as humans we considered that the
heavens cirled around the earth, and we "discovered" that in the earth
revolves around the Sun.  To think the biological world revolves around
humans is similarly as silly as the old Aristoltian idea.

Consider the process of extinction.  It is actually not one process, but two,
the first or DIRECT extinction is also termed EXTERMINATION.  This is when
a species or group are specifically targeted: Dodos, passenger pigeons,
badgers, wolves, wolverines, people of Jewish descent.  The second form
of extinction is INDIRECT extinction.  This involves destroying habitat
necessary for the long-term survival of a species and this can include
trees which last hundreds of years longer than human individuals.  Several
species associated with the dodo are now dying because the dodo is gone.

AN interesting rebuke to species preservation comes in areas like
silvaculture and forestry.  It comes under the heading of multi-use,
sustained yield, and other utilitarian banners.  What's wrong with this?
It all sounds logical.  That's part of the problem: logic with inadequate
information.  A forest isn't all one species.  If we destroy the diversity,
we have essentialy for all intents and purposes destroyed the forest.
It is only living an extended artificially cultured life.

So where does this all go?....

R. Nash (used with permission)
The Rights of Nature
Natural Rights

^                                                          ^
 \                        Universe                        /
  \------------------------------------------------------/
   \                       Planet                       /
    \--------------------------------------------------/
     \                   Ecosystems                   /
      \----------------------------------------------/
       \                   Rocks                    /
        \------------------------------------------/
Future   \                  Life                  /
          \--------------------------------------/
           \               Plants               /
            \----------------------------------/
- - - - - - -\            Animals             /
              \------------------------------/
               \           Humans           /
Present         \--------------------------/
                 \          Race          /
                  \----------------------/
                   \       Nation       /
- - - - - - - - - - \------------------/
                     \     Region     /
Ethical               \--------------/
Past                   \    Tribe   /
                        \----------/
                         \ Family /
- - - - - - - - - - - - - \------/
Pre-Ethical                \Self/
Past                        \  /
                             \/

Figure 1. The Evolution of Ethics


				?
\------------------------------------------------------------------/ 
 \                Nature, Endangered Species Act, 1973             /
  \---------------------------------------------------------------/
   \                           Blacks                            /
    \                    Civil Rights Act, 1957                 /
     \---------------------------------------------------------/
      \                       Laborers                        /
       \             Fair Labor Standards Act, 1938          /
        \---------------------------------------------------/
         \                 Native Americans                /
          \           Indian Citizenship Act, 1924        /
           \---------------------------------------------/
            \                  Women                    /
             \         Nineteenth Amendment, 1920      /
              \---------------------------------------/
               \               Slaves                /
                \            Emancipation           /
                 \        Proclamation, 1863       /
                  \-------------------------------/
                   \     American Colonialists   /
                    \       Declaration of      /
                     \    Independence, 1776   /
                      \-----------------------/
                       \       English       /
                        \      Barons       /
                         \Magna Carte, 1215/
                          \---------------/
                           \   Natural   /
                            \   Rights  /
                             \         /
                              \-------/

Figure 2. The Expanding Concept of Rights


TABLE OF CONTENTS of this chain:

24/ What is natural?				<* THIS PANEL *>
25/ A romantic notion of high-tech employment
26/ Other news groups of related interest, networking
27/ Films/cinema references
28/ References (written)
1/ DISCLAIMER
2/ Ethics
3/ Learning I
4/ learning II (lists, "Ten Essentials," Chouinard comments)
5/ Summary of past topics
6/ Non-wisdom: fire-arms topic circular discussion
7/ Phone / address lists
8/ Fletcher's Law of Inverse Appreciation and advice
9/ Water Filter wisdom
10/ Words from Rachel Carson
11/ Snake bite
12/ Netiquette
13/ Questions on conditions and travel
14/ Dedication to Aldo Leopold
15/ Leopold's lot.
16/ Morbid backcountry/memorial
17/ Information about bears
18/ Poison ivy, frequently ask, under question
19/ Lyme disease, frequently ask, under question
20/ "Telling questions" backcountry Turing test (under construction)
21/ AMS
22/ Words from Foreman and Hayduke
23/ A bit of song (like camp songs)