From: sp2@cec1.wustl.edu (Sundara Pandian)
Subject: Chastity,kural and the vedas ( Re: Found that kuRaL..)
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis Mo.
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 19:28:18 GMT

In article <1992Sep8.203938.3295@samba.oit.unc.edu> Veeramany.Sthanumurthy@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Veeramany Sthanumurthy) writes:
>In article <18392.2aac9667@ecs.umass.edu> vigneswa@ecs.umass.edu writes:
>>Sundara Pandian writes:
>>
>>>    dheyvam thozhaa_aL kozhu_nNan thozhuthezhuvaaL
>>>    peyyanap peyyum mazhai [ KuRaL, # 55 ].
>...
>[deleted; in favor of]
>
>An interpretation or two of this is along the lines of this
>praising chastity. Quite possibly I am an illiterate in
>these matters for I fail to see this obviously.

    Since you have not put any smileys in the above lines,
I assume that your question is earnest. VaLLuvar is talking
about `kaRpu'[ chastity ] in the above kuRaL. A critical 
outlook of chastity and adultery is given in the New Testament,
in the book by Matthew ( 5.27-28 ). Jesus Christ says in his
sermon, "You have heard that it was said,`Do not commit
adultery.' But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman
lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

>
>As for Kathiravan's response to my snide remark regarding
>the story I quoted about Vasuki/VaLLuvar - I was quite
>confused by what he was saying - perhaps he was too excited. 

    No perhaps, he was excited. He categorized you with people
defending vedas and defending the vedas by pointing fingers
to a story on Vasuki. He mistook that you claimed the story
as a thirukkuRaL.

>I read the story in a Tamil textbook (vintage unknown.) 

    I have read it too. Vasuki, Valluvar's wife is portayed as
an ideal married woman ,`kaRpukkarasi'[ Queen of chastity ].
All these stories are fictional. There is no historical evidence
to support that Valluvar was married to begin with. Also, it is  
not established that Valluvar was a Hindu, but in the statues 
that I have seen in Tamilnadu, Valluvar looks as a Saiva monk,
wearing sacred ash on his forehead and a sacred thread as well.
These have no historical basis. There is no description of Valluvar
in any books in his days. It is my opinion that KuRaL itself is
exaggerated a lot. It has many good moral verses, but so are other
books in his days, Naaladiyaar and the like. However, ThirrukkuRaL
is out-dated and it is obviously not a book for all ages. Heaping
praises on ThirukkuRaL is not going to contribute anything positive
to the modern Tamil literature. Volumes and volumes are written on
ThirukkuRaL and ancient Tamil's contribution to the `world'. [There
is a name for KuRaL called `ulagaththu podhumaRai'.] It is time that
Tamils should worry about the current literature dealing with the
society as it is.

>My point was about the apparent lack of contradiction with 
>which these analyses are presented - of the Vedas which have 
>no relevance to this group or our times (my opinion) and kuRaL, 
>the supreme arbiter of ageless morality!

    KuRaL is not the supreme arbiter of ageless morality. If anyone   
claims so in this net, I may get involved in an argument on that.
kuRaL is out-dated. But,I have not seen people devoting to KuRaL and
Tamils mostly respect KuRaL as a book of wisdom. KuRaL is in Tamil
and the language is very simple. Tamils can read kuRaL directly to
weigh its worth. This is not the case with the Vedas. Not many Tamils
know Sanskrit and they have not read the vedas. Many Brahmins,however,
devote to vedas as of divine origin and devote to them without even
reading them or taking efforts to know what they are about, what they
chant. They don't know Sanskirt  though they chant Sanskrit mantras
from books, or recite them when uttered by priests in the rituals
performed at their houses. My articles on vedas are to give some views
to those who like to know what vedas are about or those who pursue a  
serious study on the ancient Indo-Aryan civilization. Also as observed
by K.Srinivasan, flaming the recent generations of Bramins for the
offensive verses in the vedas or the shastras(Manudharma shastra etc)
is very immature.
>
>Sthan.
                                                           S.Pandian
                                                  
>--
>   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
>     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
>        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
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