From: choffman@adobe.com (Charles Hoffman)
Subject: Re: Levi Strauss DEFUNDS Boy Scouts
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 22:21:47 GMT

In article <1992Dec31.000435.22718@ads.com> henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch) writes:
>strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight) wrote: 
>the boy scouts have a congressional charter; such endorsement from the
>legislature probably sets them up for trouble if they engage in
>unreasonable discrimination against prospective members.

Sigh! Here we go again.

The congressional charter that the BSA has is a null and void document.  
At the turn of the century these were given to many civic organizations.  In 
the 60's and 70's all of these were nullified of any legal meaning with the
exception of Vetran's Administration Hospitals.  Even before that the charter
had less meaning outside of the BSA than their copyright on their name.  
Within the BSA the charter is used much like the constitution or charter of
any other organization. (ie a framework for rules and policies.)

Now for some personal opinions :)

Most of the front line leadership of the BSA could care less what orientation,
or theistic beliefs a boy has.  We are in the business of guiding boys into
becoming moral and stable men.  If a boy's family would like to subsitute 
"strong, stated and practiced philosophic beliefs" for "relgious beliefs" than
I would gladly remove the phrase "Duty to God" and its ilk from the various
BSA oaths and replace that with something more applicable.  The purpose of this
BSA requirement is that a boy needs to understand his place in society and how
he should act to others.  Religion is the oldest and strongest method of 
guidance in this area.  I do not believe that a non-philosophical athiest
background gives a child the proper guidance.  Please note that we are talking
about children, not adults.  

The BSA ban on homosexuals is an entirely different matter.  Non-BSA people
may not know how the BSA is organized.  The local units do not have any say so
in how BSA policy, programs, or organization is set up.  They only implement
these aspects for their groups.  Each unit is sponsored by a "Chartered
Organization".  This is often a local church, or community group (Lions, Elk,
VFW, etc).  The Chartered Organization gets a single vote at the council level.
The councils elect regional and national officials.  All board members at each
of the levels are recruited by the officials, and approved by the 
representatives.  

What this means is that BSA policy is set up by very conservative people.  

My personal belief is that in 10 to 15 years, the anti-gay (and hopefully the
anti-girl) bans within the BSA will dissapear.  My feeling is that we are about
half way through a generation in this issue, and like all social changes that
it will take a generation to change things.

So I am all for noisy, obvious demonstrations and speeches that dump on the 
BSA for its anti-gay policy.  

HOWEVER!

If you kill off the BSA just because you do not like an aspect that offends you
then you also will bear the blame, guilt, and my personal curse for your 
actions.

The BSA is one of the few influances on many boys lives that is positive and
reinforcing.  It gives new insights into life, chances for the boys to try,
to fail in a safe environment, and to learn things that cannot be taught in
school or by the family alone. 

I am a Webelos leader of ten boys age 9 to 11.  Within this group we have six
divorced families, three single parents, two disfunctional families, etc.  I
have been told by most of the parents that their boys look forward to the
Cub Scout activities and that as their interest in the program waxes, so too
does their interest in school, and their interest in life.  (And no, none of
these boys are my son, I'm an uncle of one boy).

If you really wish to change the BSA policy, then here is how to do it.
Find out who sponsers the local units in your area.  If it is a church,
are you or someone you know a member? If a service organization, join it.  Then
do the hard work to influence that organization to change its views.  

As for those who say: "I do not want a penny of any money I spend, or give to
charity to go to the BSA, because they will not allow me to participate" please
consider how much goes to other causes that do not benifit you.  I am a middle
class white male.  I can get no benifit from a womens health clinic, nor from
a hispanic community outreach program, nor a jewish old-folks home.  Should I
demand that not one penny should go to these groups that discriminate against
me?  Of course not.  

Only a child or a fool would destroy something of value because it was not
perfect.  The BSA is behind the development of the American society, not an
evil organization.  Work to change can often be hard work.  Talk is cheap.

Lets keep this from becoming a flame war folks.

Charles Hoffman           You are not judged by how much you love,
choffman@adobe.com        but by how much you are loved by others.  - G.P. Oz

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