HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cma@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (christine.m.dakes)
Subject: Re: fathers-to-be ignored by doctors, was Re: "my wife and I are pregnant", revisite
Organization: AT&T
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 17:08:59 GMT
Summary: our good experience,

We love our doctor, she always actively involves my husband, who attends
all "our" doctor visits.  Guess we've been lucky.  She always speaks to
both of us, makes eye contact with both of us, explains things to him
from his perspective, and since I am the one that usually asks the questions,
she always gives him time and makes sure to ask him if he has any
questions/concerns, which he sometimes does.  She treats him equally.
We've been very pleased/lucky.  In fact, she's glad he attends our visits
and is so actively involved and concerned.  She stated from the very first
prenatal visit when our pregnancy was confirmed that he was always welcome
to attend doctor visits. 

Christine
due in 22 (?) days!!
From: glen@slate.cs.wisc.edu (Glen Ecklund)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: C-section Incision Pain, 30 months later
Date: 29 Dec 92 20:43:48 GMT
Organization: U of Wisconsin Madison - Computer Sciences

dsegelho@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Diane Segelhorst) writes:

>I'd like to hear from anyone who had some lingering pain from a c-section
>incision, or anyone that knows a good source of information.

My wife has had recurring problems with her incision (2.5 years), and just found
significant relief from an alternative source called "scar tissue release."
The idea, as I understand it, is that scar tissue can make bridges which then
get pulled easily.  What this guy did was to push on the scar tissue and
tear it.  My wife said it helped.  She heard about this guy from her Physical
Therapist.  It sounds like some doctors have good opinions about it.
Maybe it will be mainstream in a few years.
-- 
Every child shall be treated with complete respect.

Glen Ecklund     glen@cs.wisc.edu   (608) 262-1318 Office, 262-1204 Dept. Sec'y
Department of Computer Sciences        1210 W. Dayton St., Room 3355
University of Wisconsin, Madison       Madison, Wis. 53706  U.S.A.
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: jbouwens@urbana.mcd.mot.com (Judy Bouwens)
Subject: Re: Christmas trees and such
Organization: Motorola Computer Group, Urbana Design Center
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 19:49:16 GMT

In article <21DEC199214062884@eldyn.gsfc.nasa.gov> goldberg@eldyn.gsfc.nasa.gov (Patti Twigg) writes:
>Hi all! Well, we had an interesting experience this weekend. To
>be brief, the plastic tree stand developed a crack, and our living
>room carpet was saturated. If you have a plastic stand, and it
>seems that the tree is 'drinking' a lot, check it out.
>My 4 year old son is having a great time with the Star Trek Shuttlecraft
>ornament, playing it over and over and over........ We'll see how
>long mommy can stand it. 8-) At least it is temporary - the tree
>goes away in a fair short time. 8-)
>    Happy Holidays, all. BTW, my daughter wants to know when Kwanza
>is this year, anyone know the dates? Thanks!
>                           Patti Twigg


We had the exact same thing happen to us this weekend.  My husband went to 
water the tree and happened to be barefooted; what a shock!  All the water 
that we had been feeding the tree was going into the carpet.

We will stick with the regular old metal tree stands now.  The plastic one
had a split in the seam that we had not noticed.

Happy Holidays to all and may all your floors be dry!

... judy

-- 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Judy Bouwens, Motorola MCD, Urbana Design Center, Urbana, IL 61801
Email:	jbouwens@urbana.mcd.mot.com, uiucuxc!udc!jbouwens  Phone: 217 384 8535
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From: jak@panix.com (Jack Krueger)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: where's the Santa?
Date: 21 Dec 92 12:51:10 GMT
Organization: Panix, NYC


Does anyone know of an Internet address for Santa?

Thanks,
Jack
Jack A. Krueger
jak@panix.com
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: kgatling@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Keith E Gatling)
Subject: Re: A few facts about circumcision
Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 92 17:24:30 EST

In article <1992Dec31.145255.3618@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>
jcopelan@nyx.cs.du.edu (The One and Only) writes:

   > With circumcision we are talking about a medically unnecessary
   > procedure, that if done to an unconsenting adult would result in
   > legal action against those involved.

Okay, let's try this one more time...this is your penis...this is your penis
without a foreskin.

But seriously folks, it seems that the main issue here is that of whether or
not circumcisions are medically unnecessary.  The antis claim that they
are.  Many of the rest of us pro-choicers say that the jury's out on this,
and that all the conflicting studies tell us that it's a 50/50 chance either
way.  As a result, we're putting our money on circumcision.  I believe this
is called a judgement call.

Now you antis may wish to wait until you get some more convincing evidence
that circumcision is a good idea...something like a study that proves that 1
out of every 2 uncircumcised men dies from bad breath, or something like
that (but then again, judging from some of the responses I've seen, someone
would very likely say something akin to "But in that study, the 50% who died
of bad breath lived in a place where there was no access to Listerine, so it
was flawed and doesn't prove anything!").

For Pete's sake, can't we just agree to disagree without the rest of you
antis trying to beat us pro-choicers over the head with the latest figures
you've dug up to prove that we're neanderthals for favoring circumcision for
*our* children?  After all, remember that there are three types of lies;
lies, damned lies, and statistics.

And frankly, as much as I try to be rational and logical in decisions I
make, I must admit that the strident tone of some of you antis almost makes
me reach the point where I'd circumcise no matter what you said, just
because you're beginning to bug the Hell out of me.  Get a life already and
deal with a real problem...like maybe go to the store and buy some food for
the food pantry...now that's a real problem...there are more people out
there who are hungry than are complaining about the fact that their parents
had them circumcised.

Or as Yogi Bear would say, "Sheesh!"

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* Keith E Gatling                                  kgatling@mailbox.syr.edu *
*          Opinions?  I've got plenty of them.  Just ask my wife!           *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Newsgroups: misc.kids,soc.men,alt.atheism,alt.sex.wizards
From: yasu@ll.mit.edu (Alan Yasutovich)
Subject: Re: A few facts about circumcision
Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 92 13:17:44 GMT

In article <1992Dec29.191816.8746@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> jcopelan@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (The One and Only) writes:
>In article <1992Dec27.173429.5492@newstand.syr.edu> kgatling@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Keith E Gatling) writes:
>[snip, snip]
>>
>>As I've said before, I'm glad I circumcised because it makes body
>>maintenance so much easier.  Sure, some of you have said that taking care of
>>an uncirucmcised penis isn't that difficult, but let's face it, I don't
>>remember to floss every morning and that's supposed to be easy too.  I gave
>>up on wearing contacts because as easy as they were to deal with, they were
>>more complicated than just reaching for a pair of glasses and being done
>>with it. 
>
>These are reasons for *you* to be circumcised, none of them are reasons for
>you to have your son circumcised.

	What an illogical statement.  I mean on WHAT OTHER BASIS
	would someone make a judgement about something other than
	personal experience?

	"Have *you* washed *your* brain today?"

-- 
	Alan Yasutovich
	"inquiring  (and nosey) minds WANT TO KNOW!!!"
	I can remember when "safe sex" meant having a padded headboard!!
	Tick Tock.....Tick Tock......Tick Tock .....Tick Tock......
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: Theresa Jarosz Alberti <sapphire@wings.micro.umn.edu>
Subject: Help with Spanking Alternatives
X-Xxdate: Sun, 3 Jan 93 17:16:42 GMT
Organization: Authors with Twins
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d7
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 04:52:40 GMT

I'm really interested in alternatives to spanking when dealing with
children too young to understand reasoning.  My son and daughter are 17
months old and they are starting to get into behaviors I'm not sure how
to handle.  

I "spanked" them for the first time (slapped their hands) when, after
hours of "no touch!" from me concerning the Christmas tree lights, I came
into the room and found them playing with the lights AND my son had them
wrapped around his neck!  

Another problem has been feeding time.  They've gotten into very
purposefully throwing their food on the floor.  We say "no!" loud, louder
and even louder, and they smile cunningly and drop the food slowly onto
the floor.  We've gotten into spaking their hands for this and
threatening to take them out of their high chairs.  Sometimes they even
smile after being slapped!

What is most frustrating is that I do not want to slap them.  I want
there to be a way to discipline my children without hitting, but I'm not
sure what else to do.  I can see when they're a little older I can use
"time-outs" and simple cause-and-effect, but what to do with 17 month
olds?

Any suggestions would be appreciated!

Theresa Jarosz Alberti       sapphire@wings.micro.umn.edu
From: dolson@crl.ucsd.edu (Mark Dolson)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Fear of 2nd Pregnancy (was: my wife and I are pregnant, revisited)
Date: 22 Dec 1992 09:57:55 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu


cag@ems.cdc.com  Carol Gaupp writes:

> I found being pregnant to be a very interesting experience. In my mind, it 
> is something that is totally unlike anything else and I wouldn't have missed
> it for the world, and I'm hoping to experience it again someday, BUT, it is
> not all fun and roses. It's uncomfortable, it's bulky, I felt nauseaus (sp?)
> almost the entire time, I had dreadful heartburn for most of the second half
> of the pregnancy, so bad that I had to prop myself up at an 45 degree angle
> in bed to even have a chance of sleeping, my pelvic bones hurt almost all 
> the time, I had a hard time bending over to take care of my bunnies (four)
> without having what felt like the blood rush to my head uncomfortably, my
> tummy itched all the time and I got an incredible network of stretchmarks on 
> my tummy that are just starting to look more greyish and less pink etc etc
> etc, an endless list of pregnancy related 'uncomfortablenesses'. So therefore,
> I find when people put forth that the man is sharing equally in the pregnancy
> experience, I find it a little bit like what the female is going through is
> diminished in some way? Now if there was a way to let him have all the nausea,
> I'd feel much better. ;)

This brings up a question I have been meaning to ask Misc.kids moms. I, too
had a pretty bad pregnancy - mostly due to nausea that lasted the whole
time, with the usual assorted other unpleasant symptoms.  I vomited several
times per day for 6 months, smells bothered me the whole time (I couldn't
stand to read the paper because of the smell of the newsprint or be around
my husband if he had been eating garlic, as examples).  This is from
a person who could count on my fingers and toes the number of times I'd
vomited before being pregnant, has a cast-iron stomach, loves spicy food,
etc.

All this is seriously is not just meant to complain, but to ask others
who had similar pregnancies: were you/are you afraid to get pregnant
again?  I dearly would love to have another child, but the thought of
going through that all again, is, frankly, pretty appalling.  I'm an
"older" mom (38) - might that have anything to do with it?  What are
the chances that I won't go through the nausea the next time?  Is there
anyone out there who had a lot of nausea the first time (beyond the
first 3 months) and was OK the next time?  I am looking for reassurance
here, and so is my husband!  As has been pointed out in recent threads,
the husbands don't have it easy at all when their wives are going
through this sort of thing, and this would be doubly so with a toddler
in the house to take care of.  And while we're on the subject, how
do you take care of a toddler if you're throwing up all the time?

Inquiring minds want to know...


Laura Dolson
Mom of 21 mo. old Emily
dolson@crl.ucsd.edu
From: angel@angel.UUCP (Angel's Spot)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Circum.: When Parents Disagree :-(
Date: 28 Dec 92 00:35:01 GMT
Organization: Angel's Retreat - San Antonio, Texas

From article <1992Dec23.212132.22722@ntmtv>, by missy@ntmtv.UUCP (Missy Iaquinto):
>
   (part of article deleted)
 
> Now, the real issue and question.  Although I do think a person's
> name is an important decision, I have to say I feel more strongly
> about circumcision, I REALLY DON'T want it done to my son.  My
> husband REALLY WANTS it done.  I REALLY WANT us to both feel
> comfortable with whatever decision is made.  At this point, I sure
> don't see any compromise.  Like I said, this has only come up once
> in passing so far, and I have a feeling he just thinks I'll go along
> with his wishes.  But with this issue, I just don't feel comfortable
> "going along" with it.  It's not something that can be "undone."
> 
> My husband comes from a very traditional upbringing, and feels that
> he should make the final decisions when it comes to a son, simply because
> he's male.  Three years ago I would have felt comfortable with that,
> since I'm NOT male, but now I don't feel like that's a good enough
> reason.  I'm one of his parents, and I don't want it done.  My husband
> is in the same boat, he's one of his parents, and he DOES want it done.
> So who wins?  How do we decide fairly?
> 
> There must be lots of parents out there who have disagreed on this subject
> and resolved it ... who wanted what, and what was the outcome?  I find it
> particularly interesting that it's very typical for the mother to be
> against routine (male) circumcision, and the father to be for it, when
> there's a disagreement.
> 
> Actually, I never really thought much of it at all until the last 5 years
> or so.  My brother, who is now 29, was circumcised (father is also), and
> wishes he weren't.  When I mentioned this to my husband during my first
> pregnancy, he was really surprised at that.
> 
> I'm counting on you, misc.kidder's .... not to make the decision, but
> to give some helpful advice ... NOT to debate circumcision, but to
> relate experiences when the parents disagree strongly about it ...
> 
> What to do?
> 
> Missy Iaquinto

My husband and I talked it over with the doctor first before making a 
decision.  My ob and the pediatrician both agreed unless it was for
religious reasons there was no reason to have it done.  If you and
your husband cannot agree, maybe talking to the doctors involved can
give you insight on the pros and cons and you can make a decision based
on the information you receive.  At one time it was the IN thing to
have your child circumcised, but this is no longer the case.  Sometimes
it helps bringing in a third party.

Good luck.
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: exusag@exu.ericsson.se (Serena Gilbert,cs,x0364)
Subject: Re: Just say no: was Sesame Street having "sas
Reply-To: exusag@exu.ericsson.se
Organization: Ericsson Network Systems, Inc.
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 15:46:35 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This article was posted by a user at Ericsson.
              Any opinions expressed are strictly those of the
              user and not necessarily those of Ericsson.

In article 10620@vtserf.cc.vt.edu, dabay@morse.cns.vt.edu (Marian Dabay) writes:
> In article <1992Dec18.193031.10992@tms390.micro.ti.com> nsmith@tms390.micro.ti.com (Neal Smith) writes:
> 
> >As for the kids, most of the smaller ones that appear on that show tend
> >to come accross as shy, needing prompting from the adults or muppet
> >characters.  Sassy?  What sassy?  Where sassy?  I have to ask myself what
> >the educator meant who said this.  Depending on the adult, some consider
> >jokes, playing, or even asking questions about what's going on to be 
> >sassy (i.e., bad behavior); others are more reasonable/lax, and don't
> >consider it sassy unless it's very rude or disruptive.  This confusion in
> >definition may be what the problem is here.
> 
> This reminded me of a conversation I had with a boy at the mall a few
> months ago.  My husband and 3 year old son, Thomas, were getting their
> hair cut.  There was a little boy (maybe 5-6) there waiting for his
> mother.  Thomas was talking to me and I asked him a question
> (can't remember now what), and Thomas answered "No" in a very matter-
> of-fact voice.  He wasn't being nasty or "sassy", just expressing
> disagreement.  Well, this little boy got real upset and said "He
> said a nasty word!!  Aren't you going to punish him??".  When I asked 
> him what word, he said that "no" is a nasty word that his mother never 
> allows him to say!!!  I was shocked!!!  Has anyone else ever heard of 
> this?  I could understand it if Thomas had said, in a very nasty tone, 
> "NOOO" (like he does sometimes), to something I told him to do, but 
> evidently, this little guy was NEVER allowed to say no to his mother.  
> What do you all think, isn't it important to let kids know they can have 
> opinions that don't always conform to others?  Isn't it important to 
> let them express themselves and convey what they think?  Are they any 
> of you out there that agree with not allowing a child to say "no"?
> 
> Marian Dabay
> 


My oldest son also thinks no is a bad word.  Every time I say no he tells me
that I can't say that 'cause it's a bad word (thought to him it's okay to tell
me no). 

I really don't think that the child is never allowed to say no to his mother, but
being 5-6, he probably exaggerates things.  The following often happens at my house:

me: "Aaron, pick up your toys"
Aaron: "No"
dad: "You don't tell you mother no, when she tells you to do something!"

Now if someone else says no, he tells them that they can't say no.  If he was
to be asked why he probably say, "'Cause my dad says you can't say no."

-Serena

(Aaron-5, Ethan-3, Raymond-2)

Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: jcopelan@nyx.cs.du.edu (The One and Only)
Subject: Re: Circumcision etc.
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 93 00:22:22 GMT

In article <1992Dec31.093449.21600@newstand.syr.edu> kgatling@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Keith E Gatling) writes:
>[deletions about 50/50 decision BS--give me references!]
>
>And to those who bring up the issue of making choices for someone who has no
>say in the process, let me ask a few questions based on one simple premise;
>just how far do you want to carry this?  Are you also against infant
>baptisms, choosing names for the kids, buying baby food, getting
>vaccinations done, sending them to school, and so forth, because the kid had
>no choice in the matter?  Or maybe even because of some implied risk?  What
>is the risk that a kid sent to school will be eventually beaten up by
>someone?  Is this reason enough to keep the kid home under your watchful
>eye.  If you're looking for a risk free life, you've sure picked the wrong
>universe.

All of your examples don't compare to circumcision, so mentioning them 
undermines your (already tarnished) integrity.

>And as another private poster wrote, how many of you antis are writing from
>a position of ivory tower ignorance?  Sure, theoretically it's very easy to
>take care of an uncirced penis, but real life is often different from
>theory, and there are many people out there who just don't do it, and who
>may end up suffering as a result.

No, it is really very simple to wash and teach your kids to wash.  You keep
bringing this up as if it were a reason to circumcise an infant.  It simply
is not.  How many people who mention the cleanliness issue are circumcised,
and how would they know how much more difficult it is to keep clean?  Do those
who are circumcised not wash their penises?  If they do, then they know how
easy it is, and it is not any more difficult when uncut.

>Come on people, it's a wash.  We've got statistics that regularly conflict
>with each other...

I don't believe it is a wash.  Please post references to the statistics you
mention.

Jim Copeland
--
Have you washed your brain today?
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: reid@metis.tti.com (Reid Kneeland)
Subject: Re: Sesame Street is HARMFUL to children (Was something else)
Organization: Transaction Technology Inc.
Distribution: misc
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 18:09:45 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.200833.1138@tessi.com> allen@tessi.com (Allen Warren) writes:
>dlhanson@nap.amoco.com (David L. Hanson ) writes:

>>Sesame Street is NOT great.  Jane Healy has a whole chapter in
>>"Endangered Minds - Why Children Can't Think and What To Do About It"
>>on the damage that Sesame Street does to young childrens' minds. 
>>In a nutshell, the fast moving "non-reality" images are not good for
>>children. If anything thinks they are helping their children by sitting them
>>in front of the TV, think again.

>Are you the only one highly recomending Healy's book for all parents?
>Are there any other author's out there besides Healy who think Sesame Street
>is not great?  How does Healy find that the "fast moving 'non-reality' images
>are not good for children" (your in-a-nutshell conclusion)?

I've never read Healey, but she's certainly not alone.  I've read
things written by a number of different child-development experts to
the effect that Sesame Street can be harmful.  Not only are the
fast-moving, razzle-dazzle images confusing to young minds (which are
having enough trouble figuring out reality), but the sheer entertainment
value of the show can spoil kids for real school.  Unless their teacher
is Robin Williams, school is going to seem mind-numbingly dull after a
few years of Sesame Street.

My understanding is that Sesame Street was originally intended for
underprivileged inner city kids, who probably were not going to get a
good education.  The goal was to give those kids a shot at literacy
which they might not otherwise get.  This is certainly a noble goal,
but it also means that the show was not intended to be ideal for all
kids.

BTW, most of the people who criticize Sesame Street have much better
things to say about Mr. Rogers.  Not only is the whole pace of his show
much more calm and lifelike, but the camera work is all done from a
continuous, single point of view.  In other words, it looks more like
reality, and is therefore less likely to interfere with a child's
perceptual and cognitive development.  That's the theory, anyway.

=====================================================================
Reid Kneeland
reid@tti.com  (that's MISTER reid@tti.com to you!)
Transaction Technology Inc., Santa Monica, CA, USA (310) 450-9111 x2499
The opinions expressed above do not necessarily etc etc...

Never trust a man who can count to 1,023 on his fingers.
From: krages@ohsu.edu
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: HELP
Date: 30 Dec 92 21:41:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: ohsu.1992Dec30.214126.7842
Organization: BICC - Oregon Health Sci Univ

Re: Car Seats:

>Consumer Resport did a write up on this early this year. You might want
>to check it out. 

It was in the January 1992 issue of Consumer Reports which should be at your
local library.  We looked at it before we bought a car seat two months ago and
found it was a useful article.

Kathryn Pyle Krages
Oregon Health Sciences University
Portland, OR 97201
krages@ohsu.edu
13 days to go! Due 1/12/93
Newsgroups: misc.kids