HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ptg2351@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Panos Tamamidis )
Subject: Re: Greek communities throughout Europe
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 22:45:19 GMT
Keywords: travel, varying opinions

jyc@leo.Stanford.EDU (Jon Corelis) writes:

>   I myself have only spent a few days in Turkey, but I found everyone
>quite friendly and helpful when I was there, even though I had a Greek
>name (which they could see in my American passport) and though I had
>come to the country directly from Greece.  

>   Maybe an interesting question to ask members of this group would be,
>if you are Greek and have travelled in Turkey, how did the people react
>to you, especially the ones who knew you were Greek?

 I have been in Turkey, for about 10 days.  Some people where very
 friendly, some where neutral, and some where hostile.  Overall, however,
 most people where very willing to talk to you, and open a discussion.
 Things can be different in other parts of Turkey (I visited Constantinopolis,
 only).

 One thing that impressed me was the dressings of women (i.e. they were
 covering their faces), and that there were relatively few women walking
 in the roads. I was said, that Constantinopolis is the most modern
 part of Turkey.


>   And if you are Turkish and have travelled in Greece, how did the
>people react to you, especially the ones who knew you were Turkish? 

 We first beat them to death; if someone survives, then we put him/her
 to prison :))


-- 
---> Panos Tamamidis
     University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
From: schoinas@fox.cs.wisc.edu (Yannis Schoinas)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: The discussion on Macedonia
Date: 16 Sep 92 01:52:30 GMT
Organization: U of Wisconsin Madison - Computer Sciences

michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos)  writes:


>NI>-Who are the ancestors of the inhabitants of the Republic of
>NI>Macedonia?
>  You mean Vardar?
>  Slavs who invaded Macedonia during the 6th century AD. Don't believe me,
>  believe mr Kiro Gligorov. Actually the Albanians (Illirians) have been
>  in Vardar before the Slavs, the Greeks or anyone else.

   I don't think I would accept this without some evidence. 
   Why do you connect them with the first slavic wave of 600 AD?
From: lmk@wvnvms.wvnet.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: MERIKES GENIKES PARATHRHSEIS...
Date: 11 Sep 92 23:38:16 GMT
Organization: West Virginia Network for Educational Telecomputing

Poly swstes oi paratiriseis sou Yiwrgo.  Prepei na katapolamisoume ton exthro
pou zei mesa mas prota kai meta olous tous allous.

Ton teleutaio kairo then uparxei laos pou na mhn einai "exthros" mas.  Oso yia
to Makedoniko pisteuw oti arya h grhgora auth h xwra tha anagwtistei san
Makedonia kai pisteuw oti auto tha einai ena megalo plhyma yia thn Ellada.
Nomizw oti to olo thema animetwpistike lanthasmena apo thn arxh kai tha exei
san
apotelesma thn dethnh apomonwsh ths Elladas.  An akoma arxisoun exropraxies sta
synora eti xeiroteron.

Apo arxhs eprepe h Ellada na parei apo konta oles autes tis geitonikes xwres
tou
borra me ta nea, "dhmokratika" katheswta kai na tis prowthisei sthn Europh.
(Kati paromoio pou exupna kanei h Tourkia me tis islamikes dhmokraties ths
prwhn
Sovietikhs Enwshs.)  Oloi autoi exoun anangh apo ulika ayatha san thleoraseis,
plynthria ktl kai poly tha bohthouse thn Ellhnikh oikonomia mia syntonismenh
prospathia kataktisis autwn twn ayorwn.

Loukis Kissonergis
West Virginia University
From: dik@cwi.nl (Dik T. Winter)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: Confusions...
Date: 13 Sep 92 21:57:07 GMT
Organization: CWI, Amsterdam

In article <Sep13.195630.44234@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> cc433336@LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Constantinos A. Caroutas) writes:
 > In article <4063@keele.keele.ac.uk> cla04@seq1.keele.ac.uk (A.T. Fear) writes:
 > >Just a further thought, what about the ancient authors who say there was
 > >Macedonian language?
 > 
 > They meant dialect.

One remark here.  There is no linguistic difference between dialect and
language.  Could you please elaborate on what you mean by dialect as
distinctive from language?
A common misconception is that two language are related in a dialectal
manner if they are mutually understandable.  This is nonsense.  Take
three languages, A, B and C.  A and B are mutually understandable and
B and C are mutually understandable, by that reason A and B are related
dialectically, and so are B and C, and hence A and C.  By this reasoning
you will find that Russian and Dutch are dialects of a single language.

The term dialect is more a political term than it is a linguistic term.
-- 
dik t. winter, cwi, kruislaan 413, 1098 sj  amsterdam, nederland
home: bovenover 215, 1025 jn  amsterdam, nederland
dik@cwi.nl
From: petrides@ecst.csuchico.edu (Georgios Petrides)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: a pleasure
Date: 14 Sep 92 06:49:19 GMT
Organization: California State University, Chico

Script started on Sun Sep 13 23:34:13 1992

Unread news in soc.culture.greek                           23 articles
********  23 unread articles in soc.culture.greek--read now? [+ynq] 
Threading 16 articles...
Looking for articles to kill...

/serdar argic/h:j
12474  	Junked
12475  	Junked
12476  	Junked
12477  	Junked
12478  	Junked
12479  	Junked
12480  	Junked
12481  	Junked
12482  	Junked
12483  	Junked
12484  	Junked
12485  	Junked
12486  	Junked
12487  	Junked
12488  	Junked
12489  	Junked

>FEEL THE PLEASURE OF KILLING SERDAR'S ARTICLES.......

/hasan b. mutlu/h:j

[Type space to continue] 
soc.culture.greek          7 articles

a Michael Polymena  1  >Macedonia
b Themistocles Spa  1  >Visiting Greece
c Dik T. Winter     1  >Confusions...
  Constantinos A.   1  >Dialects
d Michael Polymena  1  >An interesting poll about the feelings in Turkey
e Al Trh            1  A News Article
f SAS               1  Macedonia in Transition

-- Select threads -- All [Z>] --

script done on Sun Sep 13 23:34:59 1992

16 ARTICLES OUT OF 23.....KEEP ON SERDAR AND THE GINNESS BOOK OF RECORDS IS WAITNG FOR YOU...BUT BE CAREFULL YOUR FATE MIGHT BE LIKE YOUR ARTICLE'S....

Georgios Petrides
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: G0900@vmcms.csuohio.edu
Subject: Re: Greek Gods
Organization: CSU
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 21:36:35 GMT

This information was stated on the list recently so for some this will
be a repeat, sorry about that.
 
I spent a month in Greece this summer and was looking through some of the
books I brought home with me and found this list in the back of one of the
books:
 
THE MAIN GODS AND GODDESSES OF THE ANCIENT GREEK RELIGION
 
Greek               Latin                 meaning
Name                Name
----                -----                 ------
Zeus                Zeus, Jupiter         Master of the sky, father of the
                                          gods and men.
 
Hera                Juno                  Wife of Zeus, protector of marriage
 
Poseidon            Neptune               Brother of Zeus, god of the sea
 
Athena              Minerva               Goddess of wisdom, protector of arts
                                          and crafts
 
Apollo              Apollo                God of the sun and music
 
Artemis             Diana                 Apollo's sister, goddess of hunting
 
Aphrodite           Venus                 Goddess of  beauty and love
 
Hephaestus          Vulcan                God of fire, protector of metal
                                          workers
 
Ares                Mars                  God of war
 
Hermes              Mercury               Messenger of gods and god of trade
 
Demeter             Ceres                 Goddess of agriculture
 
Persephone, Kore    Proserpina            Demeter's daughter, queen of the
                                          Underworld
      (Hades)
Pluton, Ades        Pluton                King of the Underworld
 
Dionysus, Bacchos   Bacchus               God of wine, vegetation and fertility
 
Asklepios           Aesculapius           God of medicine
From: cc433336@LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Constantinos A. Caroutas)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: Dialects
Date: 14 Sep 92 22:41:41 GMT
Organization: Colorado State U. Engineering College

In article <7315@charon.cwi.nl> dik@cwi.nl (Dik T. Winter) writes:
>In article <Sep14.165319.83388@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> cc433336@LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Constantinos A. Caroutas) writes:
>
>One difference: you presuppose a standard Greek form, in the case of the

True.

>languages from Austria to the Netherlands there does not exist a standard
>parent language.  (You could even extend the chain to Moscow, where the
>dialects gradually change from a Germanic to a Slavic character.)

You said in an earlier posting that there are no dialects. My argument is
that there are. It is difficult, however, to tell where the line should be
drawn. Some are clearly dialects, while others are in the gray area between
dialect and language.
--
Constantinos A. Caroutas

"It's easy to make mistakes when others will be held responsible."
From: luk@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: "Rasie the Red Lattern"  was Re: Rapid Fire (probable spoilers)
Date: 14 Sep 92 17:53:00 EDT

In article <BuKsoM.DyH@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>, rtang@sunee.uwaterloo.ca (The One Your Mother Warned You About!) writes:
> In article <b8s-YV#@engin.umich.edu> Michael F. Kamprath <kamprath@space-grant.sprl.umich.edu> writes:
>>Actually, I took it as a story about a woman who wanted to be "somebody"
>>and tried to accomplish it through marriage to a rich person (remember,
>>she dropped out of college).  She went insane because she could not cope
>>with the results of her actions (maid and third wife dying), not because
>>some Neanderthal-like culture drove her to it.  Yes, the film was set in 
>>traditional Chinese culture, where wives are killed for cheating on the
>>husband, but that happens everywhere (even here in the USA).  But that was 
>>a plot device.  The same story line could have happen in Italian, Indian, 
>>German, Mexican, or even American culture, in still have the same meaning.  
>>The culture that the story is told in supports, but is still irrelevant to
>>the story itself.  Taking this film as a comment on the Chinese culture 
>>is really, well, ignorant.
> 
> Damn right!  The popularity of this film in the Western world is
> evidence that the MAIN ideas of the film contains elements which
> say something about the HUMAN condition and is not specific to
> Chinese culture.  If THAT was ALL it was about, the film would
> not be so popular.
> 
> TOYMWYA

I agree. It coud have happened in any countries. 
However, I was very depressed after the movie.
Does anyone know why the film was banned in china several years ago?

BTW, another chinese film "Qiu Ju Da Guansi"(The Story of Qiu Ju), 
by Zhang Yimou, won the Golden Lion award at the 49th Venice film festival   
lately. Gong Li also won the Best Actress award.
From: joe@astro.as.utexas.edu (Joe Wang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Perceptions, Realities, Perceptions
Date: 8 Sep 92 04:29:01 GMT
Organization: McDonald Observatory, University of Texas @ Austin

In article <26144@dog.ee.lbl.gov> yjhbhc@dante.lbl.gov (Joe Huang) writes:
>If Joe's statement is not a joke, it would rate very high for the 
>number of misstatements in one sentence :

O.K., I'm wrong.
From: mday@jukebox.lcs.mit.edu (Mark Day)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Perceptions, Realities, Perceptions
Date: 5 Sep 92 19:08:59 GMT
	<1992Aug26.204612.29669@nynexst.com>
Organization: MIT Laboratory for Computer Science


   clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu) writes:
   > jj@alice.UUCP (jj, curmudgeonly clueless old white boy) writes:

   >Clare, were you born in the upper middle class?  It may sound
   >rude, but I recognize a whole set of behaviors and denials 
   >here that have nothing to do with race, and that are
   >most startlingly familiar.

    Ha, ha, try and pin that one on me.  Go to Wilmington/Carson
    California and take a look around you.  Take a sniff.
    We're surrounded by oil refineries and a sewage treatment
    plant.  My father died of lung cancer from living there.
    Tell me if that's upper middle class.  Wilmington also has
    whole stretches of junkyards on its border with Long Beach.
    I invite you to go poke around them before you accuse me
    of being upper middle class.  It's only slightly better
    than where I live in the Southern part of the Bronx right
    now.  From what you say, you live in a way better neighborhood
    than I do.  Morristown/Summit seems more upper middle class
    than the South Bronx.

God, I love this.  "I'm more prole than you are" from a couple of people
sitting at nice white-collar jobs that let them waste hours arguing with
each other via the net.

It reminds me of the Monty Python sketch that goes something like,
"When I was growing up we had to wake up at 2 am, walk 30 miles in a
force 5 gale, work for 27 hours with only a small soggy biscuit for
lunch..."  "Oooh, you got to eat a biscuit?  What I would have given
for a biscuit, we had to eat gravel and soot" etc.

Please give it a rest, people.  Or at least take it into email.

--Mark Day

mday@lcs.mit.edu
From: tse@loonybin.apple.com (Gary Tse)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Advertising and Asian Americans
Date: 14 Sep 92 06:55:42 GMT
Reply-To: tse@apple.com
Distribution: na
Organization: Raoul Duke School of Pharmacology and Journalism

I was driving down the freeway, and I noticed this huge sign at the
local racetrack (Bay Meadows by 101, for the locals) announcing some
kind of celebration for the Chinese Mid-Autumn festival.  I was free
associating, and I remembered that the casinoes in Nevada also hold
festivities for the Chinese New Year and probably other holidays.  In
fact, those casinoes have Pai Gow tables.

Also, I've been looking semi-seriously at trading up for a better
house.  There is this local "magazine" of Chinese real estate ads.  I
had just found out that the publisher (and founder) of that magazine is
a Jewish gentleman.  He provides a translation service, and some of ads
in there are touting the houses of non-Chinese developers.

The moral?  Build the market, and the advertisers will come.

-- 
Gary Tse, tse@Apple.COM		"The fascination of what's difficult",
(408) 862-5452  		    The wish to do what one's not done before,
				Is the proper card to show at Heaven's door.
From: shaw@au-bon-pain.lcs.mit.edu (Andy Shaw)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Please educate this man
Date: 8 Sep 92 00:13:01 GMT
Organization: MIT Lab for Computer Science, Cambridge, Mass.

In article <MDAY.92Sep5145358@jukebox.lcs.mit.edu> mday@jukebox.lcs.mit.edu (Mark Day) writes:
   Now look, Newt Gingrich is a particularly pathetic specimen, but he's
   actually stumbling across a real and hard problem (probably
   inadvertently).  What do you do when there's a conflict between
   different cultural values?  Do you really believe that all questions
   of right and wrong can be understood in terms of cultural relativism?

   Examples: 

   [Deleted: Mark's examples of non-Western "barbarisms"]

   The one advantage of the Newt Gingrich point of view is that you have
   answers to all of these questions, based on the belief that "Western"
   values are intrinsically correct.  If we want a multicultural society
   in the U.S. in any sense other than having a thin veneer of
   "sensitivity training" on top of today's society, we'll have to come
   up with some other way of resolving these sorts of issues.

Well Mark, you bring up a real problem, but you are wrong if you think that
Newt Gingrich has some sort of answer to these problems: Gingrich's answer
is basically a non-answer, and nothing more than more of the same old
cultural imperialism.  Basically, whoever has the power gets to call
everyone else's values "barbaric" -- well, the fact of the matter is that
"the West" is steadily losing power, and steadily losing its ability to
condemn without impunity.  That's what's getting Newt's goat up: that he
can no longer go around and smile that smug little white supremacist smile
and keep all those non-whites "in their place".

Newt and Pat Robertson (with his "that's who we ARE, that's where we come
from" -- yeah right Pat, that's where YOU come from, but hopefully, they
won't send any more of you from where you come from) are dinosaurs.
They're having their last gasps, their last hurrahs.  It's over for them,
and the desperation is showing in their voices and their actions.

And I think that's why a lot of (but not all) white people in this country
are scared -- because like Pat and Newt, they know that their hegemony is
over.  They're going to be just like the rest of us, and that's a scary
thought when you've grown up with the implicit assumption that you are a
member of the privileged group.  It has nothing special to do with being
white -- nobody of any color likes to lose power, whether that power was
obtained "fairly" or "unfairly".  Look around the world, and it's happening
everywhere (in India, with the caste system, in China, with the scared old
men at the top of the CCP, in the former Soviet Union with former party
members, and in South Africa).

Somehow, like the assumptions that only white people can be "impartial",
there is this idea that without the Great White Value System to hold us
together, this country is going to go to hell.  Well, that's just more
cultural egotism.

-Andy
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: gdsimpso@unix.amherst.edu (GILBERTO DANIEL SIMPSON)
Subject: Latino E-Mailing List
Organization: Amherst College
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 05:29:10 GMT

 
        Hola Folks,
 
        Me llamo Gilberto y soy el co-chair de La Causa, el grupo Latino de
Amherst College. I am writing to tell people about a computer mailing list
which was started last semester to try to foster communication between Latino
students (as well as other interested people) across the country. The list has
been relatively successful and has over a hundred subscribers around the world.
        People have used it to share information about social/academic events
held on college campuses, scholarship and research opportunities for Latino/
Hispanic students, and current events connected to Latinos, both in the United 
States and in Latin America.
        The intended focus is on issues of concern to Latino students, but
anyone's input or participation is welcome. The membership is diverse and 
includes people of many different nationalities and occupations. Several members
have connections with other Latino organizations and computer networks and so
this list can give its membership access to a wide range of quick, reliable
information.
        If the list continues to grow, it has the potential to create a large
network of students accross the country and facilitate the progress of la raza.
Its strenth depends on an increasing membership who can take advantage of the
possibilities of electronic communication.  
 
        If you are interested in becoming a subscriber to this e-mailing list,
or if you have comments for thelist administrator,  all you have to do is send
a note to the following address:
 
        LATINO-L-REQUEST@AMHERST.EDU 
and say that you want to join.
 
        While you are subscribed, if you want to send a message to the entire 
membership of the list (like a piece of interesting news, a question you might 
have, an announcement that might benefit Latino students etc.) then write to:
 
        LATINO-L@AMHERST.EDU
 
        In case you are not interested, please forward this file to someone who
you think might want to participate; in that way, you can at least help the list
grow and develop.
 
Hasta Pronto
        -Gilberto
From: tse@loonybin.apple.com (Gary Tse)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Asian/Asian American Conflicts
Date: 8 Sep 92 23:45:36 GMT
Organization: Raoul Duke School of Pharmacology and Journalism

In article <1992Sep3.162735.28190@u.washington.edu> gwangung@milton.u.washington.edu (Just another theatre geek.....) writes:
>In article <1992Sep3.053658.12353@mumbo.apple.com> tse@loonybin.apple.com (Gary Tse) writes:
>>In article <1992Sep1.153221.12938@u.washington.edu> gwangung@milton.u.washington.edu (Just another theatre geek.....) writes:
>>>	Because he is Asian American.
>>Gee, I must admit I am a bit fuzzy on this Asian American bit.  Just
>>what exactly makes one an Asian American?
>
>	Gee, I just went and said it.  Sociologically and culturally the product
>of Asian groups living in America.

I get the feeling we're talking past each other.  Let's try this once
more.  What I am fuzzy on are these "sociological and cultural products
of Asians living in the States".  Are there any other products other
than victimization and discrimination?

-- 
Gary Tse, tse@Apple.COM		"The fascination of what's difficult",
(408) 862-5452  		    The wish to do what one's not done before,
				Is the proper card to show at Heaven's door.
From: tse@loonybin.apple.com (Gary Tse)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Asian American culture (was Re: Some clarification)
Date: 14 Sep 92 06:39:35 GMT
Organization: Raoul Duke School of Pharmacology and Journalism

In article <MDAY.92Sep13134758@jukebox.lcs.mit.edu> mday@jukebox.lcs.mit.edu (Mark Day) writes:
>
>   kawakami@ocf.berkeley.edu (John Kawakami) writes:
>
>   I believe the more "Asian American" issue at hand would be tse's question
>   of what constitutes Asian American culture.  The question of how it can
>   be defined and classified.  The inital problem is finding a culture which
>   encompasses all Asian groups.  
>
>3. "Americans of East Asian and Southeast Asian ancestry": In common
>American usage, "Asian American" means the same as the discredited
>term "oriental", i.e. a person of East Asian or Southeast Asian
>ancestry.  
>This group really does have some shared culture: every
>culture in East Asia has some Chinese influence, whether they
>acknowledge it or not.

Do you mean to say that Asian Americans need to partake of their ancestral
culture?  This is a rather controversial claim.  I suspect this is neither
reasonable nor widely acceptable.

>There are also shared experiences of America:
>white racists don't distinguish between Japanese, Chinese, and
>Vietnamese, and will cheerfully beat up or kill a Vietnamese over
>Japanese actions, whereas I have yet to hear of a desi who was beaten
>by a crazed Vietnam-era veteran suffering a flashback.  Similarly,
>most AEASEAAs who've attended an American grade school have
>suffered some variant of taunts about "slit eyes" and similar
>non-white "racial" characteristics.

Agreed.  What I asked at the start of this thread is whether there
is anything more to Asian American culture than victimization and 
discrimination.  The answer to that question seems to be "no".

-- 
Gary Tse, tse@Apple.COM		"The fascination of what's difficult",
(408) 862-5452  		    The wish to do what one's not done before,
				Is the proper card to show at Heaven's door.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american