HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: er@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Elie Rosenfeld)
Subject: Re: Name of Palestinian Deportees (part i)
Reply-To: er@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Elie Rosenfeld)
Organization: Bell Communications Research (Bellcore)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 92 16:29:04 GMT

In article <EGGERTJ.92Dec30110435@moses.atc.ll.mit.edu>, eggertj@moses.atc.ll.mit.edu (Jim Eggert x6127 g41) writes:
|> I agree with you, any terrorists who belong to the IMA should be
|> booted out.  But you use an unequal standard here.  The Arab doctors
|> need merely belong to Hamas to suffer your condemnation.  They don't
|> have to personally agree with everything that Hamas stands for.  Thus
|> you use guilt by association to condemn the Arab doctors.

Belonging to Hamas is enough.  Would you refuse to condemn an American who
is a member of the KKK, but claims that he "doesn't agree with everything
they stand for"?  And Hamas is worse than the KKK, if possible; the KKK
doesn't (openly) advocate killing every Jew and black in America.
-- 
Elie Rosenfeld      | "I am what I am, Leila -- and if there are self-made
Bellcore            |  purgatories, then we all must live in them.
Piscataway, N.J.    |  Mine is no worse than someone else's."
(908) 699-8800      |                     - Spock, "This Side of Paradise"
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: A self-confessed silly thread: Jewish Rock/Pop Stars
Date: 25 Dec 92 23:07:07 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <1hau2eINN9p8@morrow.stanford.edu> aliki@nova1.stanford.edu (Alexandra Schmidt) writes:
>
>Sorry about the heavy 80's focus--I write whereof I know.
>I have this notion that one or several members of Kiss are Jewish, but not
>sure. . .

Gene Simmons and Paul Stanley (weren't all the girls crazy about him)?

:')  asinA

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.arabic
From: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Subject: Re: Israel must return the deportees!
Reply-To: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe AZ
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1992 06:02:49 GMT

In article <530@owl.ukc.ac.uk> dat@ukc.ac.uk (D.A.Turner) writes:

# Israel must return the 410 deportees!
 
# The deportees are not terrorists.

	Neither was Hitler according to your (il)logic.

# They  are  innocent  people,  against
# whom  no  charge  has  been brought in an open court.  They are doctors,
# teachers, lawyers.  Twelve of them are lecturers  from  one  university.
# Their real crime is that they are leaders of their people.  There is not
# a shred of evidence linking them with the killing of a Jewish policeman.
# If there was you can be quite certain that Israel would have put them on
# trial for murder.
 

	They are members of HAMAS, a terrorist organization whose sole
goal is to kill Jews.

	The question is not one of trial for a crime, but of ridding
threats from Israel.

# It is claimed that they  are  members  of  Hamas,  and  similar  Islamic
# groups,  and that Hamas is a terrorist organisation.  First, no evidence
# that they are members of Hamas has been offered in open court.  The case
# was  heard  in  a closed military court, in which the men's laywers were
# not allowed to see the  evidence.   The  so  called  process  of  appeal
# consisted  of  the same judges declaring themselves correct.  This would
# not be recognised as a proper legal process in any democratic country.

	You obviously have no idea as to what takes place.  By the way,
when was the last time POW's had "due process"?

# Second, I do not accept that Hamas are a terrorist organisation.

	Somehow that does not surprise any of us.

# Up  to
# now they have killed only Israeli soldiers or policemen in uniform.  For
# many years Israel has stood in illegal occupation of Palestinian  lands,

	There are no "palestinian?" lands.  Those are lands liberated by
Israel in a war forced on them by the Arabs.

# and  several  thousand  unarmed  Palestinian men women and children have
# been killed by  Israeli  forces.

	The responsibility for those lie with child abusing parents (who
send their kids out to face soldiers by throwing stones at them) or
with terrorists who place themselves among civilians.

# When  Hamas  starts  killing  Israeli
# civilians  they will have sunk to the level of the Zionist state, but up
# to now they seem to be operating on a higher moral standard.

	HAMAS can only dream of rising to the very high morality of the
Zionist State.  So high, that many Jews have been killed because they
refused to shoot first.

# (A Britsh Jew who does NOT support Israel.)

	But one who must proudly display his brown nose for all of the
anti semites.
--
	There are three types of people in the world.  Those that are good
at math and those that are not.

makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu
From: jlove@ivrit.ra.itd.umich.edu (Jack Love)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Entertaining suggestions for responses
Date: 22 Dec 1992 14:53:16 GMT
Organization: /usr/local/trn/lib/organization
NNTP-Posting-Host: ivrit.ra.itd.umich.edu

In article <1992Dec22.042512.19165@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com> markr@mcil.comm.mot.com writes:
>What is wrong with "Chanukah Sameach" ?

In English, nothing much. In English, the name of the holiday
is clearly "Hannukah" so "Hannukah Sameah" translates into the
"Hinglish" as "Happy Hannukah." But in Hebrew, "Hannukah" is
a real word meaning "Dedication" as well as being used for the
holiday. So it sounds like "Happy dedication." This is sort
of the problem we have around the word "menorah." Using the 
word "menorah" in English clearly indicates the Hannukah 
candelabra. But in Hebrew, "menorah" is a generic word for
lamp, and therefore, modern Hebrew invented the word "Hannukiah"
which is specific to the holiday.

Since "Hag urim" is a common way to refer to the holiday,
I'm sticking with Hag urim sameah, at least for now.

Hag urim sameah!
-- 
________________________________________
Jack F. Love	| 	Opinions expressed are mine alone.
		|	(Unless you happen to agree.)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: gertler@cyclone.sbi.com (Don Gertler)
Subject: Re: Name of Palestinian Deportees (part i)
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <gertler@cyclone.sbi.com (Don Gertler)>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 18:49:21 GMT

cl056@cleveland.freenet.edu (Hamaza H. Salah) writes:
> In a previous article, astein@nysernet.org (Alan Stein) says:

> >Excellent.  You have shown that one can be both a professional and a
> >terrorist.  Does being a professional excuse one from the consequences
> >of being a terrorist as well?

> What I have shown is how ugly some jews are.

I see you know me.

> And just
> to keep it for the record, no body of these deportees was convicted  
> to be a member of Hamas.  
> 
> How is it possible to convict 418 people in less than hour?  They must have
> super computerized-brain judges who can convict 1000 criminals/hour!

Actually, they need only be able to convict 419 criminals/hour.

-Don Gertler
From: bri@panix.com (Brian Shanblatt)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Synagogue MUSIC
Date: 30 Dec 92 13:36:57 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix & Internet, NYC

In article <VICTOR.92Dec28111023@terse.watson.ibm.com> victor@watson.ibm.com writes:
>During the High Holidays, our shul had a chazan visiting from Eretz
>Yisroel.  During R"H musaf, when perhaps I wasn't paying complete
>attention, I was suddenly startled to hear a tune that was familiar to
>me, but I couldn't place.  I started to rack my brain, and realized
>that it was "It's a Small World" (from Disneyland/world).  I asked the
>chazan about it afterwards.  He told me that, in fact, his family also
>uses it for Shir Ha'maalot before the Birchat Ha'mazon on shabbat and
>yom-tov.  I tried it, and it works!
>--

I like the tune for a children's song.  The refrain is, for my taste,
a bit insipid to be used for prayer.  Even I admit though that
it's catchy...traif, but catchy!

I have written before that tunes with identify-able secular sources are
poor choices for prayer tunes.

If we MUST use Disney tunes for prayer, how about something more
meaningful and serious, like the tune "feed the birds, tupence a bag"
from mary poppins.  That is a beautiful tune, although I have yet
to match it to any siddur text.

Victor, maybe if you ever invite me for shabbos, we cantry it to shir
hamaaolos, instead of it's a small world" !   :->


-- 
bri@panix.com
"How to learn how to sing, Rule #1: There is always tomorrow..." 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Subject: Re: ACLU/AJC Menorah Police?
Reply-To: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe AZ
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 19:01:39 GMT

In article <1992Dec21.175723.8150@sarah.albany.edu> mark@fenris.albany.edu (Mark Steinberger) writes:

# strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes:

# >Does anyone know what the h... is going on when the AJC tries to stop
# >a menorah lighting?
 
# The thing that gets me about this issue of religious versus secular is
# that many Christian-associated religious images are treated as secular.

	I agree.

# Public figures have started to refer to Christmas trees as "seasonal
# trees," and they are commonly displayed in public places, including
# the White House. And many towns have Santa Clauses and the like
# adorning their lamp posts.

# But as soon as the symbol is Jewish, they call it religious.

	If you want a really disgusting example, O'hare airport has a
Christmas tree.  They refuse to allow for a menorah.  The federal
courts have ruled this permissable, citing the Christmas tree as a
secular symbol while calling the menorah religious.

# There is a double standard here.
 
# Incidentally, I'm all for keeping prayer out of school functions. On
# this, I agree with AJC: prayer belongs in family oriented situations
# and not in public ones.
 
	I also agree.  However, if any organization at all is allowed to
rent space from the school during non school hours, than I believe
relgious organizations should be allowed to also, and make their
events as religious as possible.

	I also believe that a school can decide not to rent to anyone if
they do not want to rent to religious organizations, but than nobody
can rent.  I also think that would be depririving the school of
revenue hwoever.
--
	There are three types of people in the world.  Those that are good
at math and those that are not.

makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.arabic
From: ifaz706@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: ERETZ YISRAEL (was Re: deportation)
Organization: University of Texas @ Austin
Date: 30 Dec 92 20:45:50 CST

In article <1hsf2pINNski@pita.cs.huji.ac.il>, aplebaum@irs01.cs.huji.ac.il (Hillel Applebaum) writes:
> 
> Let me clear myself.
> I'd like to know what JEWS think, not what is the arab position
> (1. I knew it. 2. it's scj not sca), nor I want an 'objective'
> point of view. You Jews - what do YOU think, is there a right 
> on ERETZ-YISRAEL to other nation.


	Maybe not on Eretz-Yisrael, but on Palestine.

 
> PLS - don't answer my with what you think the political way out
> should be. 


	No problem. There's no way out. :-)


Noam



Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: warren@itexjct.jct.ac.il (Warren Burstein)
Subject: Re: Kosher question
Organization: ITEX, Jerusalem, Israel
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 20:34:43 GMT

In <C0AGBn.ME8@cs.columbia.edu> kasdan@cs.columbia.edu (John Kasdan) writes:

>Are the Kosher laws cumulative?  For example, if I eat a ham and
>cheese sandwich am I violating BOTH the law against eating ham AND the
>law against eating meat with milk, or does the fact that pork is treif
>mean that it doesn't count as meat for the purpose of the prohibition
>of meat with milk?

>If, in fact, there is a violation of both laws, what is the effect of
>that?  Is the appropriate punishment greater for the double violation
>than for the single one?

The answer is "it depends".  I do think that in the case of meat and
milk, both need to be kosher to be prohibited under "meat and milk".
However other combinations of violations may be concocted.

Another answer is "it usually doesn't matter".  Unless one is starving
to death and  is presented with a choice of nonkosher foods.   In such
a case one should, in fact, choose the smallest possible violation,
unless one ius so hungry that it is necessary to consume *all* the
choices.

And another is "effects? We don't avoid nonkosher food because of
effects, we avoid it because God told us to".

-- 
/|/-\/-\      
 |__/__/_/    
 |warren@     
/ nysernet.org
Xref: sparky soc.culture.jewish:23965 soc.culture.arabic:5915 talk.politics.mideast:24101
From: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Name of Palestinian Deportees (part i)
Date: 2 Jan 93 01:42:20 GMT
Organization: Johns Hopkins University CS Dept.

In article <4816@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa) writes:
>Don't try to tie in two separate issues.  The Salman Rushdie affair is
>dead and buried.

Salman Rushdie very well could be, if you had your way.
--
"On the first day after Christmas my truelove served to me...  Leftover Turkey!
On the second day after Christmas my truelove served to me...  Turkey Casserole
    that she made from Leftover Turkey.
[days 3-4 deleted] ...  Flaming Turkey Wings! ...
   -- Pizza Hut commercial (and M*tlu/A*gic bait)

Ken Arromdee (arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu, arromdee@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu)
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Name of Palestinian Deportees (part i)
Date: 2 Jan 93 16:23:38 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <103506@netnews.upenn.edu> rubinoff@linc.cis.upenn.edu (Robert Rubinoff) writes:
>In article <4816@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa) writes:
>>[...]  The Salman Rushdie affair is
>>dead and buried.  
>[A rather ironic choice of phrase, I think]
>
>Not at all.  The call for Rushdie's death has been reconfirmed, and he is still
>forced to live in hiding.  He has appeared in public more often recently; I
>would imagine he is tired of hiding all the time.  But his life is still very
>much in danger.

This is somewhat true.  He was forced into hiding, however, in a recent (of
several months ago) public appearance in Boulder, Colorado; Rushdie explained
that he was advised by the U.S. to remain in hiding until all the U.S. hostages
were freed.  While the call for his death was reconfirmed last year, he has
been able to effectively influence the U.S. government in view of its
policies with Iran, and meanwhile, is protected more carefully than most
political figures.

Anisa

	"We don't live in Israel.  Not at all.  We live in
	Palestinian territory.  It's Israeli occupied."
					Hanan Ashrawi
From: waldo@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (Todd J. Dicker)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Conversion Question
Date: 30 Dec 92 07:35:00 GMT
Organization: Cybernet BBS, Boca Raton, Florida

> >cohen@quartz.ciw.edu (Ronald Cohen) writes:
> >What constitutes a Conservative Jew?  
> I guess someone who doesn't accept fundamentalism.
> 
> >Is it that he/she does not
> >accept that the Torah was given by G-d to Moshe at Sinai?  
-----
I haven't been following this thread.  Has anybody answered this question 
yet?  If not, a discussion of Conservative theology might be interesting.
From: rlk@underprize.think.com (Robert Krawitz)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Joke to say to the missionaries
Date: 22 Dec 92 19:42:12
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge Mass., USA
	<1992Dec17.213014.26678@bony1.bony.com>
	<1992Dec22.002407.27006@imagen.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: underprize.think.com
In-reply-to: avi@eagle.imagen.com's message of 22 Dec 92 00:24:07 GMT

In article <1992Dec22.002407.27006@imagen.com> avi@eagle.imagen.com (avi zelmanov) writes:

   In article <1992Dec17.213014.26678@bony1.bony.com>, billg@bony1.bony.com (Bill Gripp) writes:
   |> In article <11DEC199222321797@utkvx3.utk.edu> egw@utkvx3.utk.edu (Wolpert, Edward Greenwal) writes:
   |> >I heard this from a student in a Hebrew Class...
   |> >	How may Christains does it take to screw in a light bulb?
   |> >Answer(Holding up three fingers): One.
   |> >	[P.s. The missionaries I've told it to never seem to get it.]  :)
   |> >	Edward Wolpert
   |> 
   |> To which the astute missionary would reply, "Yes, the 3 fingers are all
   |> part of the same ONE hand."  =B^)

Good idea, that.  They should be the thumb, middle finger, and pinky,
with the other two held down, back of hand facing missionary.

   Not neccesarily, you could raise 2 fingers in one hand and 1 finger
   in the other...

Details, details...
--
ames >>>>>>>>>  |	Robert Krawitz <rlk@think.com>	245 First St.
bloom-beacon >  |think!rlk				Cambridge, MA  02142
harvard >>>>>>  .	Thinking Machines Corp.		(617)234-2116

Member of the League for Programming Freedom -- write lpf@uunet.uu.net
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: ecl@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (Evelyn C. Leeper)
Subject: Re: Feld brothers update
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 15:52:05 GMT

In article <m0n6hca-0000xkC@warlock.col400.att.com>
<hem@warlock.col400.att.com (Hillel Markowitz)> writes:
> From:         "J. Y. Yosh Mantinband" <cm406@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>
> 
> The following articles (interview and "update") appeared in "In
> Jerusalem," the local Jerusalem supplement to the Jerusalem Post on
> Friday, December 25, 1992.
> Reproduced here with permission.
>
> Rabbi Avraham Feld, 38, who is the director of Mossad Maccabee, a
> Jerusalem-based social service agency, was on a fundraising mission
> for his institute ...

But earlier we were told (by tjm@hrt213.brooks.af.mil (Tim Miller))
> 	They're being help without bail because the police involved
> think that they've arrested a Mossad hit squad.  One of the rabbis was
> carrying a business card (in Hebrew).  On the card was a word they got
> translated-- "mossad."  Mossad means group, and if they had bothered to
> translate the rest of the card, they would have discovered that it was
> referring to the local (Israeli) soccer team the rabbi is involved with.

This inconsistency (is Mossad Maccabee a soccer team or a social
services agency?) is just one of many, and is the reason why many
readers here are not willing to jump in and loudly proclaim that the
arrest was unjust.  No one actually seems to be disputing that
"when they were apprehended, the trunk of their car contained a knife,
plastic handcuffs, a floor plan of their alleged victim's house showing
the location of a shotgun, and other items that cast strong
suspicion."  While there may be a perfectly innocent explanation for
all of these, we have yet to hear it.  (As one person said, who gives a
floor plan to people who are also given a house key to the house for
hospitality reasons?)

If two Christian ministers (or two Muslim clergymen) had been arrested
under similar circumstances, would your outcry be as loud?

Evelyn C. Leeper  |  +1 908 957 2070  |  att!mtgzy!ecl or  ecl@mtgzy.att.com
--
"God does not play dice with the universe."  --Albert Einstein
"Albert, stop telling God what to do."  --Niels Bohr
From: faigin@aero.org (Daniel P. Faigin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: ACLU/AJC Menorah Police?
Date: 21 Dec 92 14:48:20
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
	<1992Dec21.211721.24659@netcom.com>
	<1992Dec21.222133.453@cs.rochester.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: soldan.aero.org
In-reply-to: steyn@cs.rochester.edu's message of 21 Dec 92 22:21:33 GMT

On 21 Dec 92 22:21:33 GMT, steyn@cs.rochester.edu (Gavin Steyn) said:
> Most of the intellectual foudners of this country (Jefferson, Madison,
> Franklin, to name a few) were basically atheists.  (Unitarians, actually,
> but back then it was the only way to be an atheist and still be a major
> political figure). 

Actually, most of the "founding fathers" were Deists. Deists were most
definately not atheists, but believed in a disinterested G-d, a form of
"clockwork universe" where G-d created the universe, set it in motion, and
then sat back to watch what happened. The day to day lives were under control
of man. Other founding fathers held with Quaker and other Christian beliefs
that had not found favor with the European government. Most, if not all, of
these beliefs were along what is called to "Judeo-Christian" lines.

Daniel
--
[W]:The Aerospace Corp. M1/055 * POB 92957 * LA, CA 90009-2957 * 310/336-8228
[Email]:faigin@aerospace.aero.org              [Vmail]:310/336-5454 Box#13149
		    "And as they say, the rest is compost"
From: a0cb@rigel.cs.pdx.edu (Chris Bertholf)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Christianity vs. the Jews
Date: 29 Dec 92 20:21:32 GMT
Article-I.D.: pdxgate.6626

saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal) writes:

>The algorithm is standard and transparent:
>1: "join us. We're Jews, too." (cajole and convince)
>If that fails....
>2: "_you_ aren't real Jews." (condemn)


Actually, the algorithm I have seen from these people is more like:

1. We are trying to maintain the cultural elements of Judaism and would
   like the OCR communities support in that endeavor.

   People like Saal, that feel threatened and inadequate, begin to form
   an opinion and response...

2. Step one fails because people like Saal write things like:
	You have no right to call yourself Jewish
	You have no right to any Jewish traditions
	You are not Jewish

   they tend to become offended and begin pointing out that their beliefs
   are not in conflict with Judaism, giving sources and interpretations
   of the sources that are just as valid as the interpretations made by
   you (having been heavily considered and probably with just as much
   divine intervention as has ever occured in the interpretations made
   by OTHER Jews).

   Of course this upsets people like Saal, who wish that everyone saw
   things the same way they do, so the world would be a better place
   because their interpretation of everything to do with G-d is the
   only correct interpretation, in their opinion.

3. Saal, and others, begin to call them Christian missionaries and goyish
    and use a variety of tactics to drive away people that have asked for
    help and rational discourse on a topic close to ALL OF OUR LIVES.

4. They drive away a valid sector of the Jewish population which could
   be worked with, instead of discriminated against.

Wait!  This is the same tactic people like Saal use on all other religious 
groups too.  Sounds like a close-minded, oppressive, egotistical, non-divinely
inspired separatist attitude to me.

Neat guy, that Saal :-)   NOT!!!!
Organization: The American University - University Computing Center
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 10:19:14 EST
From: <CARIAN@auvm.american.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: A self-confessed silly thread: Jewish Rock/Pop Stars

In article <217@jcpltyo.JCPL.CO.JP>, ohayon@jcpltyo.JCPL.CO.JP (Tsiel Ohayon)
says:
>
>There is also
>
>Cats (spell) Stevens who later became Mohamed Yosuf. (He converted to Islam)
Sorry, the alleged Jewishness of Cat Stevens is a Jewish Urban Legend, based
on the theory that Cat Stevens must originally have been Steven Katz. But
in fact he is the child of Greek immigrants to the UK and his original
name was not Steven Katz and he was raised Greek Orthodox, and was never
a Jew. His new name is Yusef Islam, not Mohamed Yosuf.

Rabbi Charles Arian
CARIAN@american.edu
Xref: sparky soc.culture.jewish:24150 soc.culture.arabic:6007