HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ege@cbnews.cb.att.com (Ernie Englehart)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Thanksgiving in Las Vegas
Keywords: anybody else going to be there?
Date: 10 Nov 92 17:06:44 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbnews.1992Nov10.170644.24534
Organization: AT&T Network Systems

Hello net.gamblers, especially those players in the net.holdem tourney!

I'll be in Las Vegas from Monday, 11/23 until Saturday, 11/28 visiting
my parents for Thanksgiving.  Of course, I'll be doing some gambling too!

If any other net.gamblers are going to be there, send me an email note.
It would be neat to meet some of the people who I've been playing net.poker
with and anyone else who is a net.gambler!

-- 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
|   Ernie Englehart   AT&T Network Systems    Columbus, Ohio   |
|   att!cbnmva!ege    Room 3R-109A            (614) 860-5244   |
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From: sbrackstone@admin1.memst.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Spash Casino license suspended for now
Date: 5 Nov 92 08:34:33 -0600
Organization: Memphis State University

The Mississippi Gaming Commission issued an emergency order
Wednesday indefinitely closing the Splash Casino in Tunica, Ms.
because of numerous violations of State regulations on the 
handling of money.

Officials said they did NOT suspect criminal wrongdoing, but
criticized casino operators for "willfully" failing to comply
with regulations after a regular audit last weekend.

This is the first time any of the five Mississippi casinos
has been ordered closed.

Eleven willful violations were cited:

Receipts from table games were not balanced daily, and casino winnings
could not be determined.

Failure to withhold taxes from winnings (5% on $1000+)

Major discrepancies between counting methods.

Allowing improper access to count rooms.

Collecting money from slot machines at unauthorized times and failing
to properly account for tokens (coins are not used).

No attempt made after the 2nd day of operation to correctly account
for revenue.

Numerous patron complaints about slot machine payouts.
......

"They were overwhelmed by the rush to open," stated the commission
exec dir.

"I just say, 'Welcome to the casino world,' " said Bill Thompson,
an expert and author on casinos who is on the faculty of the 
Univ. of Nev. Las Vegas.  "The big problem new casinos across the 
country are going to have is putting the expertise in place to run 
them."

........the above information comes from the Memphis Commercial Appeal,
Nov. 5, 1992......some info is paraphrased, some direct quotes.

Sam
From: kubey@sgi.com (Ken Kubey)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Is 4-of-a-kind a Pat Hand?
Date: 9 Nov 92 22:35:55 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc., Mountain View, CA

In article <1dkakvINNetu@chnews.intel.com> bhoughto@sedona.intel.com (Blair P. Houghton) writes:
>In article <dbarber.721163737@crash.cts.com> dbarber@crash.cts.com (David C. Barber) writes:
>>Is 4-of-a-kind considered a pat hand in draw poker?
>>(If there were any replies to my previous post on this question,
>>they were lost by my machine -- sorry.)
>
>Of course not, in that it's beatable by all of the straight-flushes
>that don't need the card you have four of, nor the other card you hold.

Right answer, wrong reason.  Since when does "pat" = "unbeatable"?

A "pat" hand means that you don't draw.  You should always draw
one when holding four of a kind.  This is excellent deception --
most players will think that you are drawing to a straight, flush,
or two pair.  No one will suspect that you had 4 of a kind to 
begin with.

>
>				--Blair
>				  "It's more of a Francis hand."
                                                  ^^^^^^^
Huh?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Name:       Ken Kubey  or  QB   |  Reading, editing or printing of this text
Address:    kubey@sgi.com       |  without the express written consent of
Disclaimer: the usual           |  Major League Baseball is prohibited.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: leej@sgi.com (Lee Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Speaking of Omaha
Date: 12 Nov 1992 18:01:11 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: diver.asd.sgi.com
Keywords: Omaha

In article <1992Nov11.181305.29351@RedBrick.COM> jfr@RedBrick.COM () writes:
>
>In any case, his comment on the A-A-2-3 is definitely good and something
>I had overlooked although I certainly have always considered A-A-2-3
>a premium hand, definitely better than A-2-3-4.  Why I didn't mention
>it I don't know.  I still like A-A-K-2 though.  There are more possibilities
>of winning both ends with that hand.                  

I did some analysis on Mike Caro's Poker Probe of these two hands.  I used

As Ah 2s 3h  and  As Ah 2s Kh

each one against 8 random players.  The A-A-2-3 combo wins more, scoops
more, has a higher QPR (Caro's metric of how "powerful" the hand is - it's
a function of how strong the hands it beats are).  It's actual "best hand"
odds are not that much higher (about 36% vs. 31%).

Regards, Lee
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: erb@world.std.com (ed r baker)
Subject: Re: Hold'Em question
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 16:17:08 GMT

In article <1dcb4vINNb41@fido.asd.sgi.com> leej@diver.asd.sgi.com (Lee Jones) writes:
>I'm posing this question in a hold 'em context, but it's applicable in many
>poker situations.  The short question is: If you're holding a premium hand,
>but one that prefers play against few opponents, do you raise if there are
>already many callers in front of you?
>
>Suppose you are on the button in a limit hold 'em game, and find yourself
>holding pocket rockets.  Good.  But suppose there are five callers in front
>of you.  Bad.  The traditional wisdom is that you raise pre-flop with these
>big hands to thin the field.  You're not going to be thinning anything with
>a raise at this point.  In the games I normally play ($6-12 and $10-20) if
>the big blind looks down and sees two cards from the same deck, he's calling
>the raise.  Even forgetting about the big blind for a moment, all of the
>previous callers are going to call (you may even incite a raising war for
>which you really have no desire at this point).
>
>Of course, you're a big favorite over any *one* of the other players at this
>point, but your chances of beating them *all* are not good unless you help
>on the flop.   My new thinking: with four or more opponents, I'm inclined
>to smooth call.  If the flop comes off the way I'd like (I mean like a King
>high with the ranks spread), then you play it fast because you're going
>to get plenty of action from a King.  However, if there's a pair in the flop,
>and you've got 5-6 opponents, you are in deep doo-doo.  
>
>So, what's the net.thought on this?  I've read all the books multiple times,
>but I doubt Sklansky sees very many flops with 5-6 opponents.
>
>Regards, Lee

Your wired aces will win about one third of the time at a table with 10
players if everyone stays to the end.  If you have 5-6 opponents, then
you will win more than one third of the time.  So, 33% chance of winning
the pot is a conservative estimate.

The pot size is going to be 5 or 6 times the amount of money you put in
to the pot, and you are going to win 33% of the time.  It seems that you
would make more money in the long run by contributing as much money to
the pot as possible.  Raise at every opportunity.

-Ed






Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: Jonathan Rosenberg <jxr@thumper.bellcore.com>
Subject: Re: roulette
Organization: Bellcore
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 92 01:57:50 GMT

From: yacs3500@Oswego.EDU (Brandon Leib)
Subject: roulette
Date: 8 Nov 92 22:09:10 GMT

> I found out that that the game of roulette is a big joke.
> No matter which type of bet you put down, the house will
> come out ahead in the long run.
> In other words, if you are dumb enough to play and you win,
> take your winnings and try something with better odds.
> For each game, the expectancy is -5.26
> In other words, the house will win 5 dollars in the long run 
> for every bet that is made (using $100 bet).
> So, no matter what the bet is, your expectancy will be a loss.
> Any comments?

Holy shit!!!!  Steve J., how about adding this to the FAQ?  But, maybe
we'd better verify this first.  It sounds too fantastic to be true.

I hope the casinos don't find out about this.  Roulette wheels might
start showing up all over the place.

Next you'll be telling us that craps is unbeatable?  Sure.
JR

Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: jfr@RedBrick.COM ()
Subject: Re: Unusual bets
Organization: Red Brick Systems, Los Gatos, CA
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 04:18:51 GMT

In article <BxGI3s.184@cs.bham.ac.uk> ard@cs.bham.ac.uk (Antoni Diller) writes:
>In the UK you can walk into some bookmakers' and ask them to give
>you odds on almost anything; I recently heard that a man asked
>a bookmaker to give him odds on Michael Jackson being the same
>person as LaToya Jackson.  After a little research he was given odds
>of 500 to 1 and the bookmaker came to an agreement with him about
>how to asses if the two were really one and the same person.
        ^^^^^
  Well, I guess if the two were really one and the same person,
  they wouldn't have "to asses" (yuk yuk yuk yuk yuk... grin :-) 

  Sorry about that, this newsgroup made me do it :-)

  BTW, my wife and I have had this debate (over Michael/LaToya being the
  same person) ever since she first posed in Playboy.  Interesting that
  we have NEVER seen both of them in the same picture or in the same
  place before :-)

  JR the Elder
  (and hey, JR the Younger, what do YOU know about my cherry? :-)
From: hack@arabia.uucp (Edmund Hack)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: roulette
Summary: Welcome to the real world.
Date: 10 Nov 92 23:49:44 GMT
Article-I.D.: aio.1992Nov10.234944.11630
Organization: Lockheed ESC, Houston

In article <1992Nov8.220910.7749@oswego.Oswego.EDU> yacs3500@oswego.Oswego.EDU (Brandon Leib) writes:
>I found out that that the game of roulette is a big joke.
>No matter which type of bet you put down, the house will
>come out ahead in the long run.

Yep. "How do you think they pay for the Chandeliers?"

>In other words, if you are dumb enough to play and you win,
>take your winnings and try something with better odds.
>For each game, the expectancy is -5.26
>In other words, the house will win 5 dollars in the long run 
>for every bet that is made (using $100 bet).
>So, no matter what the bet is, your expectancy will be a loss.
>Any comments?

That is why it is called Gambling and not Investing. :-).

This is true for all standard games offered in casinos with the
exception of Blackjack (in certain cases and/or if you count cards
well), Progressive Slots/Video Poker (if the jackpot is high enough), and
Poker (which is a contest among players, not against the house).  It is,
in theory but not in practice, possible to get an advantage at Red Dog
and Baccarat.  There are some who can, for various reasons, win at
sports betting, such as horse racing and football.

-- 
Edmund Hack - Lockheed Engineering & Sciences Co. - Houston, TX
hack@aio.jsc.nasa.gov - I speak only for myself, unless blah, blah..
NAR 12256 TRA 2004 (dang, 3 too late, Hal.....)
From: Chris.Bradley@f374.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Chris Bradley)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: LV during COMDEX
Date: 13 Nov 92 02:19:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: therose.721689837.AA00000

* In a message originally to All, Craig Ziesman said:
>I will be attending COMDEX the week after next.  Any
>recommendations/advice regarding what to look for (and look out
>for) while
>I'm there?  I am a low stakes (<$10/bet) BJ player.  Thanks.

Stay away from the Mirage and Caesar's Palace. Each time I've been to Las
Vegas, I have won in *EVERY* casino except the Mirage and CP. Not sure what
the problem is, but I felt like the decks were stacked. I also pulled up two 5
of clubs in a single deck blackjack game at Vic Stupak's Vegas World. I wasn't
pleased there either.

My best "luck" has been at Circus Circus, the Sahara, and the Gold Coast. Each
time I went there, I won more than lost. I was going to go to Comdex, but
didn't get to. Oh well.... (sigh)...

-->Chris 
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: irwin@uvmark.uucp (Frank Irwin)
Subject: On the other side fo the table...
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 92 21:12:33 GMT
Distribution: ne
Organization: VMARK Software, Inc.
Keywords: I B Dealin'

For those of you in the Boston area, I'll be dealing blackjack at a
Las Vegas Night to benefit the Muscular Dystrophy Association on Friday,
November 6, from 7:30pm to midnight.  It will be at the Waltham VFW
Post 10334, 981 Trapelo Road, Waltham, MA.

I'll be the dealer yelling "Presto!"

-- 
 ============================================================================
 Frank Irwin                | "We don't get out too often." - Foxwoods poker
 Vmark Software, Inc.       |  dealer, after trying to deal a card underneath
 irwin%uvmark@merk.com      |  the standing button, at my urging.
From: ard@cs.bham.ac.uk (Antoni Diller)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Computer's in casinos
Date: 5 Nov 92 10:05:37 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, University of Birmingham, UK

In article <1992Nov4.202557.11388@unislc.uucp> mgc@unislc.uucp (Marc Christensen) writes:
>Andrew William Jackson (ajackson@ernie.Princeton.EDU) wrote:
>: Why is computer use not more widespread in casinos?
>: 
>: The book eudemonic pie describes the construction and use of a 
>: roulette computer that was quite effective.  Are these computers
>: illegal?  
>From what I have seen in Nevada electronics devices including cameras are
>"PROHIBITED". I Don't know if this is by law or house rules.
>The reason should be obvious from your post.
>I hear some casinos have devices to detect electronics devices from the
>RF they put out. So such a device would have to be very well shielded in 
>addition to being hidden as you propose.
>
>Marc Christensen

Computers are illegal in Nevada but not New Jersey; one problem with using
a computer in a casino is that casino already have lots of electronic
gadgets in them and you are likely to get interference; I thought that
was all mentioned in the eudemonic pie book, now called The Newtonian Casino,
at least in the UK.
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: hallyb@globbo.enet.dec.com (John Hallyburton)
Subject: Re: Is 4-of-a-kind a Pat Hand?
Summary: Yes and No
Keywords: Pat, Francis
Organization: Twin Peaks Municipal Software Works
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 13:45:14 GMT


dbarber@crash.cts.com (David C. Barber) writes...
>I've seen a lot of talk on this thread with no difinitive answer
>i.e. Is 4-of-a-kind in draw poker considered a pat hand.
> [...] 
>So what is the answer?  Please chose between yes and no.

There is no definitive answer.  Just as some people actually count Aces HIGH
in lowball (and even, gasp, Gin!), some people will actually count 4 of a kind
as a pat hand.  It is not, but the answer is more religous than empirical.
So code up both options and tell us what difference it makes.

I lost with 4 of a kind in (an honest game of) 5-card stud.  Once.  Since I
never want that to happen again, I always fold 4 of a kind in 5 stud.  :-)
--
						"The Smart Money was on Goliath"
						John Hallyburton 43 55'N 71 45'W
From: bhoughto@sedona.intel.com (Blair P. Houghton)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Computer's in casinos
Date: 10 Nov 1992 22:21:04 GMT
Organization: Intel Corp., Chandler, Arizona
NNTP-Posting-Host: alfalfa.intel.com

In article <1992Nov9.224221.9939@RedBrick.COM> jfr@RedBrick.COM () writes:
>   --- "Hey Blair, what's that smoke coming from inside your shoe?"

That's where I keep my hot-hand, in case I need it.

				--Blair
				  "C'mon, 'leben; daddy needs
				   a new Pentium(TM) upgrade..."
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: jack@freezer.cns.udel.edu (Jack Seltzer)
Subject: Re: Playing Double-up in roulette
Reply-To: jack@freezer.cns.udel.edu
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 15:25:08 GMT

In article 10518@dbased.nuo.dec.com, hallyb@globbo.enet.dec.com (John Hallyburton) writes:
> 
> >>    The Centigram Quad X5 Matrix....details on this system can be
> >         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > 
> >Yo Jacob!  I thought the casinos got together and bought the rights to this
> >system... to avoid losing their shirts if it ever got to market.  


I understand from reliable sources that CQX5M is being modified for 
the lottery.  It will go under the name  Lotrix.  Because both
roulette and the lottery are games of sampling with replacement,
Lotrix is expected to  gain the same level of win for the lottery as it 
does for roulette.  Interviews with several of the tv 900 number 
psychics who have, as you well know, incredible win rates in their predictions,
reveal that some of them are considering bringing legal action against
the Lotrix company.  Others forsee that they will lose so will not 
participate in this action.
From: jamesr@Autodesk.COM (James Rowell)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Poker programs and code availability
Date: 12 Nov 92 19:49:48 GMT
Organization: Autodesk Inc., Sausalito CA, USA

You computer-literate-poker-type-gamblers must be plugged into
this scene.

A while ago I wrote a very simple program to count all the ways
to be dealt the various 5 card hands (including inside straights,
4 flushes with pair A's K's etc...) to verify the math I worked
out (I know it's been done before but I was having fun.) I wrote
it in C++ in a very abstract way so that I could eventually write
some more sophisticated stuff using those classes.  I thought
that perhaps I'd eventually write a game playing program or a
program to help one develop the various skills needed at the dif-
ferent games.  I've been thinking about undertaking this project
again, but first wanted to see what is already available.  (For
starters - I hate to reinvent the wheel!)

That is:
    - What games exist?  What are they like (sophisticated, sim-
      pleminded)?
    - Are there programs to help you with developing your skills
      (like timing how long it takes you to count the number of
      "outs" for a given hand etc.)?
    - Who are the major suppliers of such stuff?

Even better:
    - Is there any code that y'all want to share? (I'll share.)
    - Anyone interested in pooling knowledge/code/experience
      (poker or coding) to try to write some really cool and use-
      ful programs along the lines I've asked about?  (To the au-
      thor of the poker server, sorry I'm not sure who wrote it,
      you interested?)

Best:
    - My feeling is that if someone hasn't written the kinds of
      tools I'm thinking about you might be able to make a fair
      bit of cash supplying a poker playing nation with these
      training tools.

Reply to the net, cause I'm sure lots of folks'll be interested.
James.
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: ajackson@ernie.Princeton.EDU (Andrew William Jackson)
Subject: Re: Playing Double-up in roulette
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 21:06:22 GMT

In article <dbarber.721441839@crash.cts.com> dbarber@crash.cts.com (David C. Barber) writes:
>Given a minimum bet of $2 (tell me if this is out of line to expect
>these table limits) and a table limit of $500, is playing double-up
>on the even money bets at roulette a slow way to make say $50-$100/hour,
>or a quick trip to disaster.  Assume that my bankroll will let me make
>the $256 bets if necessary.
>
>Who has done the study on all the possible combinations of win/lose
>and how one comes' out from it.
>
>Also, do the LV casinos ever ask you to leave, or close the table
>just after you've lost your $128 bet for the sake of "getting" a double
>up player?
>
>Thanks.


Whoa!  Better rethink that one.  Where do you figure $50-$100/hour?
First you will not find a $2 min $500 max wheel anywhere I know about.
Second the even money bets on roulette are siggnificantly less
than 50/50 so you might as well play blackjack if you want to try
this betting scheme.  Third - this scheme is a recipie for disaster.
I know a friend who lost $600 in a night playing this method.

Think about it - you have just lost 8 times in a row and now you 
(according to this scheme) have to place a $512 bet, which if
you win, you will put yourself $2 ahead.  If you loose this bet
well then you have just lost $512 + $256 + $128 + $64 + $32
+ $16 + $8 + $4 + your origninal bet of $2.  That is alot
of money to risk for small payoffs.  

Don't try it.

ajackson@ernie.princeton.edu
From: kaufman@ucunix.san.uc.edu (Stephen A. Kaufman)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Blackjack tips for beginners/Casinos in Minneapolis
Keywords: shuffle, clumping
Date: 6 Nov 92 13:53:51 GMT
Organization: University of Cincinnati

In article <Bx9wHM.C8M@ucunix.san.uc.edu> kaufman@ucunix.san.uc.edu (Dr. K.)
 writes:
>That is the reason I asked people to do the experiment with ordered
>cards and different backs in my first posting in this thread.  The
>result -- for the stutter shuffle -- is not only do cards end up
>SHOCKINGLY close to each other (in certain parts of the deck more
>so than others) -- but that interleaved as they are, they usually stay
>in the same sequence in which they started!!
>
Rereading this suggests that I may be understood, so a clarification:
Given that in the original order of the discard pile there is a sequence
such as: 10S, AH, 3D, 7D, 9C; in the new shoe those cards will not only
end up near each other -- interleaved with other cards from 1 or more such
seqences from elsewhere in the deck -- they will be in the same sequence
they started in!  (something like: 10S, X, X, AH, 3D, X, 7D, 9C; where
X is a card from one or more different "clumps".)  This is random???
 The only major difference between the various current
shuffles in this respect is the length of the sequences that are kept
intact and (connected with that, of course) the number of sequences
from various parts of the deck that end up interleaved together and
the precise parts of the deck that end up where.
 Understanding how this works for the particular shuffle you are playing
should enable you to improve both your betting and playing strategy.

Dr. K.
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: Jonathan Rosenberg <jxr@thumper.bellcore.com>
Subject: Re: Is 4-of-a-kind a Pat Hand?
Organization: Bellcore
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 92 15:16:32 GMT

From: LIPSCOJA@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu (Andy Lipscomb)
Subject: Re: Is 4-of-a-kind a Pat Hand?
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 02:15:50 GMT

JFR>  If your 4-of-a-kind pat is beaten in a draw game, you might consider
JFR>  giving up poker for life.  Or entering a monastary (oh, same thing :-)

	JR> Oh, come on, J(F)R.  4-of-a-kind ain't that rare.  Last trip to LV I had
	JR> three 4-of-a-kind's playing Omaha hi-lo, all within a few days.

Andy> Please read posts carefully before flaming them.

Why?  That would take all the fun out of flaming & go against a
long-standing netnews tradition.

Andy> He was taking about five-card draw,

Talk about reading posts carefully, sheesh.  Where did he say
"five-card" draw?  Huh?  he just said a "draw" game.  Maybe he was
talking about 10-card draw, where 4-of-a-kind wouldn't be at all unusual.

> in which 4-of-a-kind *is* a pretty rare event.  It would naturally be
> more common in a game like Omaha.

Alright, I confess.  I didn't read his post really carefully.  I just
felt like telling my 4-10's-in-the-hole Omaha story.

But, I wasn't really flaming JR, the Elder.  Just giving him some shit. 
Besides, I happen to know that JR, the Edler already lives in a
monastery.  (Though he HAS lost his cherry.  But, that's another story.)

JR

Newsgroups: rec.gambling