HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dae@cbnews.cb.att.com (david.a.elliott)
Subject: Re: Delino DeShields and Sean Berry
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 12:28:01 GMT

In article <19389@ector.cs.purdue.edu> gritter@cs.purdue.EDU (Carl R. Gritter) writes:
>BTW, anybody know anything about 3B Sean Berry and P Archie Corbin?
>The Expos picked up these two from the KC organization for P Bill
>Sampen and P Chris Haney.  

Corbin I can't remember too much about.  I do know that they thought he
might make their staff this year, but instead was sort of disappointing in
AA.  He's a righty, I believe.

Sean Berry was a AA all-star in 90, and was one of their top prospects.
Last year, he didn't make the team in the spring, and did poorly in a couple
of brief trials during the season.  He also had a mediocre year in AAA.
This year, however, he has played very well in AAA.  He has good power, is
hitting about .300, and has a good defensive reputation at 3B.  He's in his
mid-twenties, so he's about at the end of the line in terms of being a
prospect.

The Royals didn't figure to protect him, so I guess they decided to trade him
and get someone for him rather than lose him in the expansion draft.  If he
comes close to his AAA numbers next year in the majors, he'll be quite a
steal.  Given his age, however, it's not likely he'll be a star.


Dave Elliott
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: kbos@carina.unm.edu (Kurt Bose "of Biscayzee")
Subject: Re: Boston Rex Sox Uniform - JRY - what does it mean?
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 05:56:46 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

In article <d+bnt+q.derich@netcom.com> derich@netcom.com (Scott A. Steinbrink) writes:
>What does "JRY" above the black line on the right shoulder mean?
>
JRY stands for Jean R. Yawkey, former Boston Red Sox matriarch, who died 
recently.  Ask Valentine for details.  Anyway, the black line, is, as in so
many instances, a tribute to the person so immortalized.  (Of course, she and
her husband are also forever inscribed on the left field scoreboard, their
initials forged in Morse code.)

-- 
Kurt Bose (as in Daisy, not Rose) - kbos@carina.unm.edu - I'm not the AntiChrist
I AM the AntiWoofer. - Junior Stathead{tm} - I'm a shutmouthed, selfless idiot!!
Latest Attempted Compiler of the R.S.BB FAQ - Now Accepting Submissions...(hint)
Have you hugged a Dan Gladden fan today? - Dave Rossing : .531/54/214 at Denver!
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: marwood@csri.toronto.edu (Simon Marwood)
Subject: Re: Braves/Expos Thurs. Score?
Organization: CSRI, University of Toronto
Date: 28 Aug 92 03:24:15 GMT

In article <1992Aug28.022011.17229@cis.ohio-state.edu> ellis@tomato.cis.ohio-state.edu (steven lawrence ellis) writes:
>Does anyone know this score?  Is the game over?  Go Expos/Reds!!!
>
>Stv

As of 11:22 eastern time, the game is still in a rain delay, and does not
seem to have started. They will likely (obviously) wait as long as possible
for Tropical Depression Andrew to pass by before calling the game, as each
game is important to both teams, and the two don't meet again this year.

Simon

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Re: All Right:  WHO IS JEFF KENT?
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 08:21:53 GMT

In article <1992Aug30.054223.4167@leland.Stanford.EDU> claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
>In article <1992Aug30.053059.1078@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> bk713@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Kimon Zachary) writes:
>>
>>Baltimore: Chito Martinez, Luis Mercedes, Randy Milligan
>>GDavis can play 1st, Horn DH
>
>If Baltimore actually offers (or offered) something like that, they are either
>seriously overvaluing Cone or seriously undervaluing Milligan.  I wouldn't
>have given up *any* of the three for 6 weeks of Cone, let alone all three.

Other than the minor details that the Mets have no use for Milligan
(they already have Murray signed to a mondo contract, and they don't
use the DH in the NL), and Orsulak is injured, this deal is not
ridiculous.

First, it is six weeks of Cone *and* two draft picks.  Not just six
weeks of Cone.  Second, a star player is worth more to a contender an
equal-value prospect.  Third, Milligan is the only valuable player
above.  Mercedes' defense is seriously questionable (see Luis
Polonia).  And the NL doesn't use the DH.  Chito isn't worthless, but
at his age he's not a prospect either.  A decent power hitter, but
nothing *that* special.  His OBP this year is probably a fluke.

As the Mets, I would prefer the Kent package.  They will need a CF and
a 2B next year far more than they will need a RF, DH, and 1B.  As the
Orioles, I would be willing to pay a *very* high price to put the team
over the top.

I think that the Cone deal benefits both clubs.  Kent is a nice young
player, and Cone should help the Jays this year.  Or can Cone only
pitch in the NL where they don't have any hitters capable of hitting a
fastball?  :-) Actually, he looked reasonably good at first, but tired
quickly.  Maybe with the moving and all he hasn't gotten enough
exercise/sleep?

Cheers,
-Valentine
-- 
Clemens may not win his 4th CY, but he still rules!	tedward@cs.cornell.edu
Organization: University of Maine System
Date: Thursday, 3 Sep 1992 09:03:45 EDT
From: Wayne Barber <BARBER@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Ugliest Man in Baseball??
 <Btyz4L.BMz@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu>

I haven't seen Carlos Quintana mentioned yet.  But no matter what he
looks like, it would be a sight for sore eyes to see him in the Red Sox
lineup.
--------------------------------------
Wayne Barber - Data Support Specialist
University of Maine System
INTERNET: Barber@Maine.Maine.Edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: dwarner@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (david j warner)
Subject: Re: Clearing Waivers
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 20:18:36 GMT

In article <la25c0INN9p2@mizar.usc.edu> pcaster@mizar.usc.edu (Dodger) writes:
>Can someone please answer this question?
>
>How is it possible that Cone cleared waivers when just two
>weeks ago, Bobby Ojeda DID NOT clear waivers.
>
>Seems to me the rest of the National League WANTS to see the
>Dodgers finish in last place.  It makes no sense that a
>pitcher of Cone's quality could sail through, yet Ojeda
>was blocked.
>
>					BleedsDodgerBlue

I don't have the whole 411 on Ojeda, but my guess is that a division contender
somewhere wanted him, and another team within the division blocked the deal.
As for why Cone got through and not Ojeda, your guess is as good as mine.
From what I've heard, Ruben Sierra and Jeff Reardon have been blocked this
year as well.  Seems Baltimore and Milwaukee may have been sleeping through the
Cone deal.




-- 
- David J. --------- BLUE RIDDLE PRODUCTIONS.  Bloomington, IN; Durham, NC. -
- e-mail: dwarner@miami.ucs.indiana.edu -------------------------------------
***************** "RAP IS AN ART/TURN UP THE MICROPHONE" ********************
***************** BRP's debut 12" single -- coming soon  ********************
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: kettler@mitme5.mit.edu (KETTLER, THOMAS R.)
Subject: Re: Jose Canseco in Texas
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Organization: MIT Lab for Nuclear Science
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 01:48:00 GMT

In article <1992Sep1.181527.6102@noose.ecn.purdue.edu>, ehlerswm@hackney.ecn.purdue.edu (William Ma writes...
>Well I've been reading on the net about the Texas/Oakland trade.  Nobody has
>answered my one question.  That being about something that I heard on ESPN 
>this morning: They stated something to the affect that since Jose is in the 
>middle of his contract, he can demand that the Rangers trade him and if they
>don't he has the option of becoming a free agent.  Is this true and if so how
>does that process work.
> 
>If the above is true, this trade doesn't seem to really benefit either team 
>for the future because you can probably figure that Jose will demand a trade 
>just so he could take a chance to become a free agent.
> 
Yes, this is true but one thing does occur. If the player makes that demand, 
then he forfeits the right to be a free agent for five or six years if the 
request is granted and he is traded to another team. This happened to the Expos 
with Barry Jones who was then traded to the Phillies and has since been 
released.

					Sincerely yours,

					Thomas R. Kettler "Expos Fanatic"
From: spira@panix.com (Greg "Sarcasm Is A Way Of Life" Spira)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Lies, Damn Lies, & Statistics (was Re: The Monthly Cecil Fielder Thread
Date: 3 Sep 92 01:35:19 GMT
Organization: Boo!

In <1992Sep02.204409.2123@brtph560.bnr.ca> psycho@brtpa25.bnr.ca (Paul Jezioranski) writes:

>I brought up the example of using opposing pitcher's ERA in the
>RBI/PA/RISP equation to illustrate that these statistics are getting
>absurd. If you are going to go into gory detail about each hitter than
>go all the way:

We don't need gory detail.  Most of the analysts around here would
like to see the downfall of all the absurd statistics around.

>	How about RBI vs. Plate Appearances with Runners in Scoring Position
>	taking into account opposing pitcher's ERA plus day vs. night games

Are you on drugs or what?  This is exactly the kind of stat that all the
stat-heads here denounce as nonsense.  

You've never seen a stat like that here.  You're just setting up a
stupid strawman to argue against because you can't argue against the
stuff that people have responded to you with.

>Any statistic you can come up with is bound to be affected by countless "what
>ifs". Keep it simple.

We do.

 Games played, runs scored, hits, walks, RBI, etc. (i.e.
>the basics) give a solid idea of hitting performance.

No, they don't.

And we can keep it simple by eliminating a lot of these.

Leave us with PAs, SLG, OBP and I'll let you eliminate all the rest.

Is that simple enough for you?

 Sure there may be some
>misleading info, but many of the other stats you can present can also be
>equally as misleading.

Well, sure, you can present shoe size.
Actually, I think I'd learn more from that than I do from RBIs.
So let's replace the RBI column with SS for Player's Shoe Size. 

The point is that RBIs as a stat is so misleading it's utterly worthless.
You want to simplify statistics? Ban RBIs.  And take pitchers' W-L
percentage and errors along with them.  That'll do a lot to simplify
the world of baseball statistics, and it'll do it in a way that makes
sense.

We're using a few simple, meaningful stats and you are using a whole
lot of stats that, to quote Shakespeare, are "full of sound and fury,
signifying nothing."

Greg 
-- 
  spira@panix.com       "The one-O delivery to Fisk.  He swings.  Long drive,  
 cmcl2!panix!spira      left field!  If it stays fair, it's gone!  Home Run!"  
158-17 Riverside Dr.                     Ned Martin, 10/22/75   
Whitestone NY 11357          (Insert your favorite baseball moment here)
From: trn@warper.jhuapl.edu (Tony Nardo)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Home Run Rule: Lind's Hit in Dodger-Pirate Game
Date: 26 Aug 92 13:59:31 GMT
Organization: Johns Hopkins University

aardvark@locus.com (Warren Usui) writes:

|In article <BtJxuC.DLu@news.cso.uiuc.edu> jhg8680@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Jon  Hamkins) writes:
|>
|>There are rules discussing how many bases to award when a fielder
|>deflects a ball into the stands.
|>
|>6.09 "The batter becomes a runner when---
|>(g) Any bounding fair ball is deflected by the fielder into the stands,
|>or over or under a fence on fair or foul territory, in which case the
|>batter and all runners shall be entitled to advance two bases;
|>(h) Any fair fly ball is deflected by the fielder into the stands, or
|>over the fence into foul territory, in which case the batter shall be
|>entitled to advance to second base; but if deflected into the stands or
|>over the fence in fair territory, the batter shall be entitled to a
|>home run. ..."
|>
|
|What would be the ruling if the outfielder intentionally knocked the ball
|out of the park?  For example, let's say I'm playing right field and there
|is a guy on first.  Someone hits a line drive over my head that bounces up
|against the wall.  Can I hold the runner at first to third by throwing
|the ball in the stands?  I'm sure that there has got to be some ruling
|for this or else it would happen more often.

Hmmm, I missed 6.09 (g)...

Anyway, rule 7.05 (g) takes care of your scenario.  Two bases are awarded, and
in the case of an outfielder making such a throw, "the umpire shall be governed
by the position of the runners when the wild throw was made."  So unless the
runner on first is truly a slug :-), he'd be at second by the time you chuck
the ball into the stands -- and thus be allowed to score.
--
Tony Nardo,		   INET: trn@warper.jhuapl.edu, trn@aplcomm.jhuapl.edu
 Johns Hopkins Univ./APL   UUCP: {backbone!}mimsy!aplcomm!trn
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: claudius@leland.stanford.edu (Nelson Lu)
Subject: RC/27 for SS'
Organization: DSG, Stanford University
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 92 05:30:59 GMT

NATIONAL LEAGUE
Barry Larkin, Cincinnati	6.76
Spike Owen, Montreal		5.53
Ozzie Smith, St. Louis		5.35
Jeff Blauser, Atlanta		5.01
Jose Offerman, Los Angeles	4.36
Jay Bell, Pittsburgh		4.33
Jose Uribe, San Francisco	4.29
Tony Fernandez, San Diego	4.01
NL AVERAGE			3.81
Royce Clayton, San Francisco	3.68
Rey Sanchez, Chicago		3.35
Dick Schofield, New York	3.12
Rafael Belliard, Atlanta	2.09	; guess why Blauser is finally playing

AMERICAN LEAGUE
Travis Fryman, Detroit		5.55	; just barely holding off...
Pat Listach, Milwaukee		5.53
Omar Vizquel, Seattle		5.33
Rande Velarde, New York		5.23
Jeff Huson, Texas		5.05
Mike Bordick, Oakland		5.03
Craig Grebeck, Chicago		4.94
Andy Stankiewicz, New York	4.47
Cal Ripken, Baltimore		4.47
Mark Lewis, Cleveland		4.31
Dickie Thon, Texas		4.30
David Howard, Kansas City	4.18
AL AVERAGE			4.15
Manuel Lee, Toronto		4.02
Greg Gagne, Minnesota		3.88
Walt Weiss, Oakland		3.40
Gary DiSarcina, California	3.32
Rico Rossy, Kansas City		3.28
Luis Rivera, Boston		2.77

===============================================================================
GO CALIFORNIA ANGELS!
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: lsmith@mega.cs.umn.edu (Lance "Squiddie" Smith)
Subject: Re: Positioning of netters in hypothetical baseball games.
Keywords: Dove Bar, Hrbek, Yummy, Fielder's Choice=Pizza.
Organization: University of Minnesota
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 20:03:31 GMT

In <16769@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> zuhars@madrone.eecs.ucdavis.edu (Gary Under The Gun Huckabay) writes:

>And WHY the hell am I hitting ninth?  Tate wouldn't take a pitch if it
>hit him in the teeth.  He consumes more outs than Joe Carter at a
>Shriners' BellyButton Festival.  And with Gord Niguma hitting behind
>me, I'm going to get nothing but curveballs.

A better question is why am I batting in the clean-up position? Just
ask David "Honorary Canuck" Thornley and he'll tell you that my swing is
comparable to Greg Gagne's "Spiral Swing of Death". Now this does 
mean that my batting average is about the same as Mike Pagliarulo or
Jeff Reboulet and therefore I should be playing third, but putting me
4th in the line up is about as smart as putting The Big Cat anywhere in
the line up.

Hell, I admit it. I should be selling Lady Kenmores. 
--
 Lance "Totally Lost" Smith  |   "O! that this too solid lead would melt,
     (lsmith@cs.umn.edu)     |    Thaw, and resolve itself into a dew;"  
 "It's a fine line between   |   "Follow team spirit; and, upon this charge
     stupid and clever"      |    Cry 'God for Kelly! Minnesota and St Olaf!'"	
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: zurawski@cbnewse.cb.att.com (lawrence.w.zurawski)
Subject: Re: What is slugging percentage?
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 21:25:36 GMT

> 
> What is the highest season slugging percentage which has ever been
> recorded and by whom?  Feel free to give more than one if you have the
> stats. 
> 

Babe Ruth slugged .847 and .846 in '20 and '21.  Nobody has ever come
close to matching him.  In one of those years,
he slugged something like .990 at home.  This was when the Yankees 
played in the Polo Grounds.  After they moved to Yankee Stadium, he
had several seasons of .700 and up, but never reached .800 again.

Larry Zurawski
zurawski@ihlpm.att.com
From: z_copeab@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: CY, MVP, ROY
Date: 31 Aug 92 22:25:32 CST
Distribution: usa
Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University

In article <1992Aug31.191721.25355@sunb10.cs.uiuc.edu>, epstein@sparc3.cs.uiuc.edu (Milt Epstein) writes:
> In <1992Aug31.152101.7480@osf.org> ron@osf.org (Ron Birnbaum) writes:
> 
> [I'm not sure of the rest of the attributions.]
> 
>>In article <1992Aug29.025852.725@ccsvax.sfasu.edu>, z_copeab@ccsvax.sfasu.edu writes:
>>
>>|> If Sheffield gets the Triple Crown, I don't see how he can't
>>|> get MVP (nobody named Dimaggio to hit in 50+ consecutive games and get the big
>>|> press...).
>>|> 
>>
>>  Williams did NOT get the Triple the year DiMag hit in his 56 consecutive
>>  games. He did get the triple twice - one being the year AFTER DiMaggio's
>>  streak - '42.
> 
> Didn't he bat over .400 the year DiMaggio had his streak? (.406, I
> think.)

	Ack, I goofed. That was indeed the year Williams hit over .400, not a
Triple Crown year. Oh well...

Brandon Cope

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: par@teak18.cray.com (Peter Rigsbee)
Subject: Re: Baseball and Billions
Originator: par@teak18
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: 25 Aug 92 12:22:46 CDT


In article <1992Aug24.152629.22215@informix.com>, barrym@informix.com (Barry Mednick) writes:
> Is it time to wrest control of the game from the owners?

Even if it is, do we really want to move it into the hands of the U.S.
government???  You'd need a lot more than 40 teams; you'd need at least
one per state to keep Congress happy.  And the two Canadian teams might
be miffed at being run by the US government; so we should really have a
commission from both countries (even worse!).  Would the players now be
government employees?  Making $5 million a year?  Right!

The book sounds intriguing, if for no other reason than to hear how (or
if) he addresses any of these concerns.

> It's not hard to find situations where the fans have gotten shafted:
> franchise movement, World Series games starting at 5:00 PM, 3 hour rain
> delays, and minimal broadcast of games on free TV.  What do you think?

These aren't always cut and dry.  
	- For every franchise movement, some fans become unhappy but 
	  a comparable number (some argue more) who are happier than
	  before
	- World Series games starting at 5 PM may bother a few people, 
	  but having games start at 9 PM (local time) probably bothers 
	  more (plus remember that World Series games used to always 
	  start in the early afternoon, even during weekdays, before 
	  those "greedy owners" moved them into prime time.)
	- a 3 hour rain delay may be annoying, but so is having a game
	  rained out (especially if you drove in from out of town); I'm
	  not sure how a government group is going to solve this any
	  better

The US government can deal with broadcasting already -- there is already 
a law telling the NFL when it can/cannot black out games.  So if Congress
decided that the current situation is bad enough, they already know they
can "fix things".  (But then, isn't cable TV being re-regulated by the
government?  So it will be cheaper and better?  So who will care about free 
TV? ;-)


Things may not be perfect, but having the government run baseball is not
the solution!

	- Peter Rigsbee
From: dswartz@sw.stratus.com (Dan Swartzendruber)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: AL Cy Young update
Date: 28 Aug 92 15:04:09 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <1992Aug27.190350.19548@HQ.Ileaf.COM>, raczka@HQ.Ileaf.COM (Christopher Raczka) writes:
> In article <1459000005@igc.apc.org> Global Action Network <gan@igc.apc.org> writes:
> > 
> > AL Cy Young Update?
> > 
> > Do you really think Jack Morris with an ERA in the 4.40 range
> > I see only two clear cut candidates.
> > (1) Roger Clemens who leads or is close to the league lead in 
> >
> 
> Just as the Blue Jays can win without Morris, the RedSox
> can lose with out Clemens ... neither should be considered

Given that the Cy Young award is supposed to be given to the best pitcher
in the league, please explain why how his team does makes any difference?

 
>  
> > (2) Dennis Eckersley who is nearly perfect this year in relief
> > and is leading his team unexpectedly to another title.
> >
> 
> Eck is an everyday player "leading his team ..."
> Which is why he will be a leading candidate for the MVP not the Cy Young
> 
>  
> > Mention Mussina, K. Brown, or Jack McDowell in the same sentence
> > with the Cy Young award and it's legit.  Maybe Guzman if he 
> > wasn't ailing, but Jack Morris?  Not a chance!
> > 
> 
> Jack McDowell is the best choice, but who knows how the votes will go
> 
> chris
> -- 
>     " Govern a great nation as you would cook a small fish
>       Do not overdo it. "
> 
>      LAO-TZU

-- 

Dan S.
From: molly@uga.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Brave fans
Date: 26 Aug 92 16:44:10 GMT
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens

In article <66893@hydra.gatech.EDU> gt7469a@prism.gatech.EDU (Brian Landmann) writes:
>I'm getting really tired of poor Braves's fans.
>I went to the Braves/Expos game last night and to my disbelief the
>fans were booing Tom Glavine.  I know every city has some poor
>fans but how can you boo a guy who has already won 19 games?
>
>
I don't understand them.  The only explanation I have is THEY ARE NOT
REALLY BRAVES FAN.  A true fan will never do that.


MATR
>
>-- 
>
>Brian Landmann        
>Georgia Institute of Technology                   Why are we here,  
>Internet:gt7469a@prism.gatech.edu                 because we're here.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: ellis@tomato.cis.ohio-state.edu (steven lawrence ellis)
Subject: Braves/Expos Thurs. Score?
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 02:20:11 GMT

Does anyone know this score?  Is the game over?  Go Expos/Reds!!!

Stv

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: rising@zoo.toronto.edu (Jim Rising)
Subject: Feds running baseball
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 20:49:06 GMT
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology

For what it's worth, I don't think that the Canadians would
be happy with baseball being run by the US Government.
-- 
Name:     Jim Rising
Mail:     Dept. Zoology, Univ. Toronto, Toronto, Ontario, Canada    M5S 1A1
UUCP:     uunet!attcan!utzoo!rising 
BITNET:   rising@zoo.utoronto.ca
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: raczka@HQ.Ileaf.COM (Christopher Raczka)
Subject: Re: AL Cy Young update
Reply-To: raczka@HQ.Ileaf.COM (Christopher Raczka)
Organization: Interleaf, Inc.
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 19:03:50 GMT

In article <1459000005@igc.apc.org> Global Action Network <gan@igc.apc.org> writes:
> 
> AL Cy Young Update?
> 
> Do you really think Jack Morris with an ERA in the 4.40 range
> I see only two clear cut candidates.
> (1) Roger Clemens who leads or is close to the league lead in 
>

Just as the Blue Jays can win without Morris, the RedSox
can lose with out Clemens ... neither should be considered

 
> (2) Dennis Eckersley who is nearly perfect this year in relief
> and is leading his team unexpectedly to another title.
>

Eck is an everyday player "leading his team ..."
Which is why he will be a leading candidate for the MVP not the Cy Young

 
> Mention Mussina, K. Brown, or Jack McDowell in the same sentence
> with the Cy Young award and it's legit.  Maybe Guzman if he 
> wasn't ailing, but Jack Morris?  Not a chance!
> 

Jack McDowell is the best choice, but who knows how the votes will go

chris
-- 
    " Govern a great nation as you would cook a small fish
      Do not overdo it. "

     LAO-TZU