HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: "ellen p. buckley" <eb@esv.bgsm.wfu.edu>
Subject: fishy references
Reply-To: eb@esv.bgsm.wfu.edu
Organization: The Internet
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 16:31:07 GMT

in regard to bob's telling the joke:  "what do you get when you cross a
pig with an octopus?", the answer is "you get a football that throws 
itself," and the date of the show was Feb 14, 1970, my date o' birth, at
the fillmore.  i know this because THANKS TO RANDY SCHECTER 8^), i have 
a tape of this show, and it is one of my favorites, for obvious reasons.

peas on earth,
gouda wheel to all,

ellen

-- 
  **************************************************************************

   "sometimes the songs that we hear                ellen p. buckley 
    
    are just songs of our own. . . "                eb@esv.bgsm.wfu.edu
 
  **************************************************************************
From: dougm@cns.caltech.edu (Doug McNaught)
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
Subject: Re: Chapter 23 (no dead content)
Date: 16 Dec 92 23:12:26
Organization: The Sinister Icy Black Hand of Death Club
NNTP-Posting-Host: bradbury.cns.caltech.edu
In-reply-to: dahldj@mentor.cc.purdue.edu's message of Wed, 16 Dec 1992 15:10:09 GMT

In article <BzCy4y.Auy@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> dahldj@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (David Dahl) writes:
   In article <1992Dec16.010520.13295@uvaarpa.Virginia.EDU> sjeck@isi.com writes:
   >
   >"It is an important and popular fact that things are not
   >
   > [great stuff deleted]
   >
   >                  ...so they eventually gave up and left the
   >Earth by their own means shortly before the Vogons arrived.
				     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
					   kinda goofy
   >
   > [great stuff deleted]
   >
   *wow*.  incredible article.
   dave

  It is, of course, from the increasingly inappropriately named
_Hithchiker's Trilogy_ by Douglas Adams. Definitely worth reading.
-Doug
--
Doug McNaught              |"When you start ruling out ideas merely because 
dougm@cns.caltech.edu      | they are sheer, gibbering lunacy, you've stopped
doug@midget.towson.edu     | doing science." -Robert Firth in sci.physics
  Nobody approves my opinions! Not even me, sometimes. Read at your own risk.
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
From: Dan Luther <dmluthr@sdrc.com>
Subject: "backstage pass" - summary of response
Reply-To: dmluthr@sdrc.com
Organization: The Internet
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 17:44:14 GMT

The general response was *great tape, but way too short*

[excerpts...]

"The tape is about 30 minutes long..... The first ten are full of old home
movies from garcia's archives set to one of the best Hard to Handles
I've personally ever heard. Full of energy, and awesome phil on bass.."

"In simple terms, it's a very nice video, but too short! :-)"

"I will let you know that you can order Backstage Pass from Noteworthy for
14.95.  Much better deal if you ask me.  I haven't seen it yet, sorry I
can't help on that end of things.  :)"

"The only bad thing about this video is that it is only 32 minutes long.  
[...]
Besides that, there is much to be said about this video.  You get tons
of footage; from Jerry's home videos, to Prankster days, to Egypt footage,
a deadication to Brent with a live version of "Easy to Love You", and much
more.  Much of the tape consists of a constant influx of photos from the
beginning to the present.  So you get a lot, but it comes at you quick,
and doesn't last long, especially when you get into it."

 ..."At the end is what makes it all worth it, which is a studio acoustic 
performance of She Belongs To Me with Bob,Jerry, and Phil. In which Bob 
and Jerry swap verses.  I did see some for sale in Tempe for  $16.95."

[end of excerpts]

Thanks to everyone who responded.  Sometime when I've got $15 to spare
I'll probably pick it up.

BTW just got a suprise from my wife in the mail... seems she was ordering
(sesame street) tickets via ticket*&*%* and they put her on hold.  
While she was waiting they ran a promo recording...

So lo and behold what shows up in the USPS the other day?  My *very own*
Lithuanian Tee (WOW!)

Ya gotta love it.


Aiko all

enjoy the shows! and be kynd to each other


Dan 	dan.luther@sdrc.com





Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
From: phz@cadence.com (Pete Zakel)
Subject: Re: Misc Compton Terrace musings
Organization: Cadence Design Systems
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 00:15:22 GMT

In article <92344.155848AXLAH@ASUACAD.BITNET> david hollister <AXLAH@ASUACAD.BITNET> writes:
>You mentioned about how often Healy has the sound screwed up at the start
>of shows.  I agree totally.  You don't hear that kind of crappy sound at
>any other show.  It's almost like a Dead tradition.  One I can definitely
>do without.  They should get somebody who has a clue as to how to set up
>sound BEFORE the show starts!
>Just my .02c.

You're exactly right, you don't hear that kind of crappy sound at any other
show.  Your hear much worse crappy sound that stays pretty crappy through
the whole show.

For all of you who don't know, Dan Healy is probably THE SINGLE BEST SOUND
TECHNICIAN in the known universe.  He uses state-of-the-art equipment, KNOWS
how to use the equipment, and generates the best sound of ANY musical group
around.

The reason the sound isn't great at the beginning of a show is that when he
does initial sound checks, THERE ARE NO PEOPLE IN THE STADIUM.  If you don't
understand you sound works, you can't appreciate how acoustically different
a hall is when there are people inside -- and it is also affected by the
number of people.

Healy has real-time sound analyzers going constantly that let him tune the
sound to almost perfection -- usually by the third song.  And he has to
constantly modify as temperature and humidity change -- both affect the
sound.

-Pete Zakel
 (phz@cadence.com or ..!uunet!cadence!phz)

Paranoia is simply an optimistic outlook on life.
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
From: Steve -- The Other One <sjeck@isi.com>
Subject: Herb Caen mentions Garcia
Reply-To: sjeck@isi.com
Organization: The Internet
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 17:40:10 GMT


from the SF Chronicle, Dec 15,1992 in Herb Caen's column:

"Sodden thought: With Jerry Garcia losing weight and 
 turning vegetarian, can "The Grateful Dead Exercise Video"
 be far behind?"

Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
From: karenr@geronimo.sps.mot.com (Karen Ramondetta)
Subject: 2-14-70
Reply-To: karenr@geronimo.sps.mot.com
Organization: Motorola, Inc.
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 20:33:49 GMT

2-14-70 Fillmore East

I was just listening to this one this morning for the bazillionth time.  One of
my personal favorites.  But I don't know who the guy is who introduces the
dead.  He talkes about coming down in a coffin but the damn thing broke. 
Bob notes that it was actually a banana crate.  Then mistery guy introduces
the Grateful God Damn Dead and they head on into Casey Jones.  Is this 
Ken Kesey?  
Just wonderin,
Karen
From: drass@cs.widener.edu (David Drass)
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
Subject: Terrapin-Station
Summary: What happened man??
Keywords: FTP
Date: 12 Dec 92 18:38:53 GMT
Organization: Widener University Department of Computer Science, Chester PA
NNTP-Posting-Host: shirley.cs.widener.edu

Can anyone tell me when and why terrapin-station.syr.edu stopped
accepting anonymous logins?  I tried to ftp there this morning and was
unable to login as either anonymous or guest.

On a totally unrelated note, what are the rumors floating around for
the spring tour?

Dave
From: schiesel-seth@yale.edu (Seth Schiesel)
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
Subject: Re: Playing Reprise
Date: 15 Dec 1992 03:36:31 -0500
Organization: Yale University Science & Engineering UNIX(tm), New Haven, CT 06520-2158
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: minerva.cis.yale.edu

Sorry about the shank there; using a new editor. Here's what I *meant* to say
about the difference between playin' and the reprise:
"playin' reprise" just means they didn't play the whole song at once, just
fellinto a playin jam and then Bobby will come back in with "playin,
playin in the band, daybreak, daybreak on the land."
they may or may not have played the first part earlier in the show (these
days, most probably not).

NOW, let's see if I can get this right...
-Seth

-- 
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------*
I Seth Schiesel            "The bottle was dusty but the liquor was clean" I
I schiesel-seth@yale.edu                                    -Robert Hunter I
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------*
From: mike@inti.lbl.gov (Michael Helm)
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
Subject: Re: 12/11 Oakland show set list and review
Date: 12 Dec 1992 20:40:42 GMT
Organization: N.I.C.E.
Reply-To: mike@inti.lbl.gov (Michael Helm)
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.128.82

Jeff Baker writes:
>Eyes was also hot - Jerry was really playing the guitar well by this point.
>They segued into Corinna, which I think gets better every time I hear it,

I second both of these, & Phil played very very well last nite too.
I can't remember when both have done better playing, & it just got
better as the nite wore on.   

Bay Areans -- how do you feel about having these shows in the middle
of December?  I'm finding it disruptive, there are so many other
things that go on here in our embarrassment-of-riches town in the run
up to Christmas that I sort of take for granted, & the Dead shows
really crowd up the calendar.  Overwhelming.  Now after Christmas,
it's going to be dead for real around here this year (I'm leaving town
for the first time in years during that stretch).  It seemed like an
interesting experiment at first, but now I think I prefer Ye Olde Way.
==mwh
From: mrichey@mothra.nts.uci.edu (Mike Richey)
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
Subject: Re: 3/24/93 Chapel Hill NC
Date: 16 Dec 92 05:31:34 GMT
Organization: University of California, Irvine

In article <Uf=UQkK00iV4M2kEt1@andrew.cmu.edu> Stacy Kissel <sk2y+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>I can confirm the rumor that the dead will be playing at UNC on the
>24th, and maybe another day too.  My boyfriend's sister works at a hotel
>there, and they got a call yesterday.  Unfortunately the manager said
>they couldn't stay there because they had trouble when some other band
>was there.  
>peace,
>stacy


My Boyfriend's sister? The hotel will turn down business because of a
previous band? Well that confirms it indeed.
From: tnf@well.sf.ca.us (David Gans)
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
Subject: Re: address of Deadheads Against Discrimination?
Date: 14 Dec 92 20:54:52 GMT
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link

In article <1gb6a2INNfn7@hp-col.col.hp.com> rstern@col.hp.com (Richard Stern) writes:
>I have some friends who would like to order the No Time To Hate: Undo 2
>t-shirts.  They need the address of Deadheads Against Discrimination


We are not selling t-shirts!  If you can make a contribution to help us
pay of fthe billboard, please send a check to

 Deadheads Against Discrimination
 2888 Bluff St., Suite 496
 Boulder CO 80301

Thanks for your help.

-- 

	David Gans	tnf@well.sf.ca.us
			{apple,pacbell,hplabs,ucbvax}!well!tnf
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
From: Ken Kaufman <kaufman@aic.gmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Jerry in Washinton Post 12/16/92 Style Section
Reply-To: kaufman@aic.gmu.edu
Organization: The Internet
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 13:54:03 GMT

From: rwd4f@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Rob Dobson)

|> It also mentions that Al Gore was at the 6/20/92 RFK show.  
|                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

| I dont know if i really believe this. Where was the secret service?

Don't forget Al was neither a Presidential nor a VP candidate at the time.
No need for such extensive protection for a "lowly" senator.

| Anyway, this is probably the first (and last) time ive gotten high in
| the same building as such a political bigwig.

Maybe, maybe not.  If nothing else, their kids might be there with you.
I've seen the son of one Kennedy (or maybe two, I forget which one(s)) at a
Dead show (9/3/80 Springfield.)

==Ken
From: ingraffi@tramp.Colorado.EDU (INGRAFFIA EDMOND J)
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
Subject: Re: Sound at MeNichols Shows in Denver Dec2-3
Date: 14 Dec 92 19:50:53 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder

In article <kolar.724087390@spot.Colorado.EDU> kolar@spot.Colorado.EDU (Jennifer Lynn Kolar) writes:
>morse@zephyr.rap.ucar.edu (Corinne Morse) writes:
>
>>I was also very pissed off with the sound quality at McNichols - at least
>>in the upper tier rear where our "official" seats were both nights.  I had 
>>the distinct sensation of - yes, there is a Grateful Dead concert going on
>>down there, but I am outside looking in.  
>
>><soap-box-mode on>
>>From a consumer point of view, I felt ripped off.  The folks in the nose-bleed
>>seats pay the same ticket price (at least in principle) as those in the front 
>>row.  It seems to me that at the very least they deserve to have decent sound.
>><soap-box-mode off>
>
>Bitch, Bitch, Bitch.... I wish people would stop bitching about the sound and
>the quality. Facts are that *everywhere* I was during the shows.. from front
>row, to the nosebleed-zone, hallways, and backstage, the sound was just fine.

	You must not like hearing PHIL, then... I agree with Corinne. The
	sound SUCKED the first night...Healy forgot to turn on mics, Phil
	was nowhere to be found, and the volume was WAY LOW.


>Then again, I was not cooked out of my mind on acid, alcohol, grass, or any
>of the other substances that seem to be overly-consumed at shows.

	Oh, lets just be a little holier-than-thou. You enjoy the show the
	way you want to and others enjoy the show the way they want to.
	Don't be so damn snotty. 
      
>consumeristic attitude, if you feel ripped off, then dont buy tickets anymore.

	For $30 a pop, Healy SHOULD do a better job on sound. 

>More tickets then fro all those outside that FROZE wishing they could hear that
>shitty sound that everyone is bitching about. So next time you think a show
>is poor, shitty, etc, think of all those who could not get inside, it may have
>been their miricle show.

	Those "MIRACLE" folks are half the problem. If they froze, that's their
	problem for going to the show with no tix. For many years now,
	various members of the band have asked people not to go to the shows
	with no tickets. It creates madness in the lots, and thus can ruin 
	the chance for the Dead to play at that venue again. So don't defend
	those frozen folks. They risked it, and they paid the price...not
	$30, I might add.

	BTW, I thoroughly enjoyed myself even if the sound was lame on 12/2.

>Cassidy             Syntronics Engineering, Boulder, Co
>	   "my opinions are mine, all mine, and nobody elses"
	    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
	    Thank god.....:^)

YANGETY
From: berggren@hal.com (Trout B. Rainbow III)
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
Subject: Re: USA Today 12/17/92: Deadheads & LSD
Date: 19 Dec 92 02:29:10 GMT
Reply-To: berggren@hal.com
Organization: HaL Computer Systems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: jupiter.hal.com

In article <8104@news.duke.edu>, jfw@neuro.duke.edu (John F. Whitehead) writes:
|> There is a full page on LSD, Deadheads, and the Grateful Dead in today's
|> USA Today.  Section A, page 11, has three articles.
|>  ... stuff deleted
|> 
|> The most shocking article is on the disparities of LSD sentences,
|> because an LSD dealer is sentenced on the weight of the entire LSD
|> drug *carrier*.  Thus, if you are caught with 100 hits of pure LSD,
|> worth $100 (and weighing a hundredth of a gram), you'll get sentenced
|> to 10 months in jail.  If it's on blotter paper, you'll get 5 years,
|> or, god forbid, on sugar cubes, 16 years.  For comparison, if you
|> commit armed burglary, you'll get 2-1/2 years.  If you kidnap someone
|> or steal $80 million, you'll get 5 years.  Rape?  7 years.  Attempted
|> murder?  8 years.  You don't even get 10 years for $100,000 of heroin.

Or, if you are convicted of lying to Congress, violating Federal statutes
setup up to control illegal flow of money to mercenaries, sell U.S. owned
weapons to avowed enemies of the United States clandestinely (some call
this treason!), they let you off completely!  It's a good thing Ollie North
and Richard Secord and (sshhhh:: George Bush ___  shhhh) weren't caught
selling LSD in addition to the cocaine that they WERE involved with.  (Good
for them anyway!).  They might have actually been punished for their crimes!

I agree with McNally:  Be invisible--go underground.  Scrape the stickers
off your car; unless of course you're a good lawyer and just love to get into
constitutional legal struggles!  Maybe with Al and Tipper and daughter 
attending shows, we might see some reason return to law enforcement and 
maybe the money will go towards something more helpful to our society.

-Dancin, Dreamin,

-HairBear
From: pstevens@Metaphor.COM (Paul Stevens)
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
Subject: Re: 12/11 Oakland show set list and review
Date: 14 Dec 92 18:27:56 GMT
Reply-To: pstevens@Metaphor.COM (Paul Stevens)
Organization: m4

In article <1992Dec12.221811.4638@leland.Stanford.EDU>, dkeisen@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dave Eisen) writes:
|> I think we all would. My guess is that because of Jerry's illness
|> and uncertain future, the band was not willing to rent out the
|> coliseum for New Year's eve as far in advance as they would have
|> had to. 

I think they are just plain tired of playing on NYE and without Bill 
Graham around to beg them to play they had a chance to skip it. NYE
really was Bill's party that the Dead would play at, rather than a
Dead concert that fell on NYE.

+------------------------------------------------------------------------+

   Paul Stevens                        {apple|decwrl}!metaphor!pstevens
   Metaphor Computer Systems           pstevens@metaphor.com
   Mountain View, CA
From: pstevens@Metaphor.COM (Paul Stevens)
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
Subject: Re: Phil seals Vault
Keywords: Phil
Date: 18 Dec 92 00:31:36 GMT
Reply-To: pstevens@Metaphor.COM (Paul Stevens)
Organization: m4

In article <1992Dec15.215314.1765@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>, russellg@tramp.Colorado.EDU (Glenn Russell) writes:
|> 
|> Paul J. Pearah writes:
|> >
|> >as far as i am concerned, the redoubtable phil lesh has the most
|> >impeccable tast of anyone affiliated with the band, and consequently i
|> >am quite content to allow him to screen healy's picks.
|>  
|> I've been more than happy with Healy's 2 Vault releases.  The only drawback 
|> IMHO, has been the rate (1 per year) that releases are trickling out.  
|> Phil's veto probably means we wont see another Vault disc for 
|> at least 10 months.  :-(
|> 
|> I`d love to see a bunch of shows released simultaneously like all those live
|> Zappa CD's that appeared awhile ago.  

This is my problem with his "veto" as well.  I just don't see the Vault
releases as the place where "impeccable taste" should be applied.  Do
they think we will become irate if a Vault Release has some mistakes,
either musical or technical, in it?  Churn 'em out, the more obscure
the better, and they will get purchased by many happy heads.  Zappa
sure knows this simple rule and both he and his fans are benifiting.

+------------------------------------------------------------------------+

   Paul Stevens                        {apple|decwrl}!metaphor!pstevens
   Metaphor Computer Systems           pstevens@metaphor.com
   Mountain View, CA
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
From: Victor A D'Amato <DAMATO@unc.oit.unc.edu>
Subject: 12/11 soundcheck
Reply-To: DAMATO@unc.oit.unc.edu
Organization: The Internet
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 16:37:22 GMT

The Dead soundchecked the following songs on Friday night:

Big Boss Man
Attics of my Life
Rain
Muleskinner's blues

Vic
From: lb04@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (Laura Bassi)
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
Subject: Jerry on eMpTV News
Date: 17 Dec 92 16:36:00 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

Hi pppppeople,
  Last nite while talking to my sister on the phone she sez:  Hey, Jerry's on
  MTV.  So, of course I flip over real fast and there he is!  He looked really
  good.  They were talking about his health and whatnot.  Jerry sez:  "they
  always love it when I don't die, heehee"  "get a lot of mileage outta that"
  (not exact quotes, mind you...the sister was still talking in the
  background)..
  MTV showed pics of jer in dec. and now, in like a side-by-side split screen
  type of deal...I really don't think he's lost THAT much weight, but IMHO of
  course.
  They showed clips of the Oakland shows...(supposedly, can't confirm since
  i'm here on the EC)
  Jerry said he's "making some lifestyle changes, and it's fun"...he's not
  "eating anything with a face"  (hi David)
  Sez the 'near death thing' makes you think, or some such.
  Showed a picture of the Aint No Time to Hate Board and talked about that
  scene a bit...
  all in all it was a good piece
  c ya
  ppppppppppppppppps!
  laura
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
From: pixton%cdr.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Jim Pixton)
Subject: Bad Sound
Date: 11 Dec 92 13:02:12 MST
Followup-To: pixton@jensen.cs.utah.edu
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept
Distribution: usa

All this talk of bad sound got me reminiscing about Shoreline 6/18/89,
the summer solstice shows.  After various annoying sound problems
Jerry sez somethin' like "We're experiencing a technical nightmare".
Later, if my memory serves me right (which isn't often) they treat
us to Hey Pocky Way>Iko Iko, and in set 2 do a nice He's Gone.

In case you were starting to think this wasn't a grovel.... it is.
Grovel mode on:
I know the sound is off for a few songs, but it was my first Iko
and holds grate sentimental vaule.
	more groveling here, of the shameless kind
So, if any kind soul with a tape of this or 6/19, 6/21 would drop
me a line we could work out a trade.  write to pixton@jensen.cs.utah.edu
Grovel mode off.


About the sound at Compton, one word sums it up - LOUD.
The first day we were way back (more room to dance), and it was loud.
The next day we were close (better view of the boyz), and it was loud.
I'd say just loud enough.
-Jim



Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
From: j-germuska@nwu.edu (Joe Germuska)
Subject: Re: new Useless DeadStat: set lenghts per month
Originator: germuska@casbah.acns.nwu.edu
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois, USA
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 21:37:36 GMT

In <1992Dec15.020710.29754@uvaarpa.Virginia.EDU> SIMON%XTAL0.BITNET@mitvma.mit.edu writes:


>Below find the average number of songs played during every
>month of the last 3 years.  This is now a new, permanent
>part of the Useless DeadStats (tm) program.  Thanks for the idea !  :-)

Of course, in MHO, the dead are at their best when they play fewer, but
longer songs (in general).  How about updating the stats program to
consider timing of songs?

(That ought to keep him quiet for a while :-) :-) :-)

You know, I was thinking that someone should make a gopher or WAIS or both
with setlist information easily accessible...  would people get into that?
Maybe I'll look into it.

Just thinking aloud really.
-- 
|   Joe Germuska   |   j-germuska@nwu.edu   |   (708) 869-0354   |

-- 
|   Joe Germuska   |   j-germuska@nwu.edu   |   (708) 869-0354   |
From: mjwagner@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Mike Wagner)
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
Subject: Re: Crying
Date: 16 Dec 92 13:53:16 GMT
Organization: CS Dept, Ball St U, Muncie, Indiana
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching) writes:
: Dec. 12th, Saturday, Oakland Coliseum
: The First Time I've Ever Cried At A Grateful Dead Show
[...]
: people follow the Dead all over the world. But, for some reason, it all 
: came together for me at the Dec. 12th Saturday show at the Oakland 

I don't know when the first time was, but Jerry's Stella Blue at Richfield
this last spring caused some (happy) floaters to well up in my eyes.

:  And then - after the show, I went to a rave! [ But that story's for 
: another newsgroup  :-)  ]

Wow, you must be in some great kind of shape.  I usually have to rest
a good while before doing anything else! ;)

Mike
        ...goin' where those chilly winds don't blow... 
                   (i.e. _not_ muncie)