Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
From: steeg@cs.toronto.edu ("Evan W. Steeg")
Subject: Re: Canada Has Pneumonia!
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto
Date: 20 Aug 92 17:44:02 GMT

In article <9208192325.AA23815@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com> GCTHORNE@idbsu.idbsu.edu writes:
>
>     I visited Toronto last weekend.  Totally illuminating!
>     Cool phrases on Canadian news channels like:
>
>       " And the Art Museum of Ontario may reopen next year "
>       " with the petitioning of the Toronto Symphony for
>         bankruptcy "
>       " if layoffs continue at their present rate, 1992 will
>         supersede the 1990 all-time record for layoffs "
>
>    11% unemployment!?
>    $7.40 for two ice teas and fries!?
>    $10 / hour for PARKING!?
>
>     Holy CHRIST!

  Let me guess... you're a Canadian or Swede playing the "Ugly American"
to make us Yanks look bad, right?  Well, cease and desist.
Any reasonably sane and educated American would understand:

 1) There has been, and is, a recession *throughout* North America.
    (I was shocked to see my hometown in Connecticut last year with
     stores boarded up and homeless people on the streets for the first
     time ever.  Also, I was just in the Bay Area last month and heard
     endless TV and radio stories about layoffs, state government
     financial crises, and draconian cuts in courses and instructors
     in the Cal. State colleges and universities).

 2) Toronto is a *big* city -- 3.2 million people in the official
    Metro Toronto entity, and several million more within a 50mile
    radius.  Big cities are expensive.  Ever try to park in New York?
    San Francisco?  Buy a dinner for 2 with wine in Washington, DC?

 3) The prices you quote are (probably) in CDN dollars.  Don't forget
    to multiply by .85 when making your whining and unscientific
    comparisons.


>
>    The couple I stayed with:
>
>       " Our income tax was raised $20 / week this year "
>       " Our property tax was raised 5% this year, but we were lucky, some
>         places it went up 14% "
>       " Well, the General Sales Tax [ Federal government tax on just about
>   every goddamn thing under the sun ] was raised from 8 % to 15 % last
>         year "
>


  4) Yes, taxes are too high.  Government services however tend to be
     much better than in major US cities.  And then there's that
     health care thing, too, as you pointed out.  But, yeah, taxes
     are too high.  The current ruling party (NDP) in Ontario will 
     probably not fare well in the next provincial election.

  5) The "G.S.T." stands for "Goods and Services Tax", by the way.


>      " Can you help us get a job in the States? "
>      " Our condo has lost about 25% of what we paid for it "
>

  6) Your yuppie friends gambled on the condo market during the 1980s
     boom/speculation period and lost.  Waaaaaahhhh!   Booms and slowdowns
     and downtown overbuilding *never* happen in the US, do they?
     (There was a year when I worked for the NYC government and learned
     that there was more *vacant* office space in NYC than there was
     *office space* in Chicago + San Fran + LA).
     At least Toronto had a boom, and a *lot* of people made a *lot*
     of money.


>   Christ.  Not to mention the GANGS!  It was like being back in L.A.
>   except it was CLEAN!

  7) The "gangs" here are a dim parody of gangs in LA, San Jose, NYC, Miami,
     etc.  Ditto for our little "riot" we had during Rodney King week.
     I can't believe you even brought it up.  There is *no comparison*
     between the low levels of violent crime (and fear of same) here
     and in major US cities.  I know this statistically, and I *feel* it.
     (I had handguns shoved in my face twice in one year in good 'ol New
      Yawk).

  Don't get me wrong -- Canada is not perfect, and Toronto is not to
everybody's taste the best place in Canada.  (And is hardly typical
of "life in Canada". Should I tell foreign friends to judge "life in
the USA" by short visits to Manhattan?  Or maybe Bedford-Stuyvesant?
Or rural North Dakota?  Or where?)  I will likely move back south and
enjoy life in Maryland or Santa Cruz or some such place when I finish
my PhD.  But cut the crap.  If you want to argue that "gun control"
or "a reasonable and fair health insurance system" won't work in the
US as they do in Canada, then go ahead -- there are some good points
to be made.  But this "No, these ideas suck because Canada is really
a dark and terrible place" "argument" only makes one look stupid.

  -- Evan



-- 

Evan W. Steeg (416) 978-5182      steeg@ai.toronto.edu (CSnet,UUCP,Bitnet)
Dept of Computer Science          steeg@ai.utoronto    (other Bitnet)
University of Toronto,            steeg@ai.toronto.cdn (EAN X.400)
Toronto, Canada M5S 1A4           {seismo,watmath}!ai.toronto.edu!steeg
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.bush