From: vere@netcom.com (Steven Vere)
Subject: Re: Bleak news from the academic job market
Summary: Put up or shut up
Keywords: Momma, don't let your babies grow up to be scientists...
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 03:02:05 GMT

In article <1992Nov6.103301.3045@hellgate.utah.edu> tolman%asylum.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Kenneth Tolman) writes:
>>I got a piece of mail from the computer science department of an Ivy
>>League school the other day. The writer dropped a hint that there were
>>400 applications for one Assistant Professor position. (Name of the
>>school withheld to protect the sender.)
>>
>>At last count there are, perhaps, twenty or thirty open positions in
>>the US and Canada at that level. Ergo, at least a 1000% oversupply.
>>
>>At this point, I would NOT advise anyone to get a Ph.D. in computer
>>science, if they were doing it to work in academia. If you're planning
>>to do it, I'd say make other plans. Unless you're a superstar, you
>>probably don't have a chance.
>
>This is not necessarily THAT bad... consider there must be at a minimum
>500 graduates from CS departments with PhD's every year.  Presumably
>many of these will apply for an "Ivy League" position, so one would expect
>a great number of applicants for that position.
>
>I do not know where you found out 20-30 open positions, or what type of
>positions these are.  You could ALWAYS get a job at a lower tier school,
>if you are willing to shift into 2 year schools. 
>
>I don't know why anyone would want to be in academia anyway... can't you
>get research positions in industry . . .?

   No!  There aren't any!  Computer science research openings in
industry have dried up.  Research has gone out of fashion with Wall
Street and corporate America, because it does not pay off quickly
enough.  It is pretty obvious that Tolman hasn't taken a good look at
the technical job market in that last couple of years.  I'm afraid
those of us who are actively and futilely trying to find positions in
this cadaverous job market are inclined to be annoyed by ignorant
people spouting off about that which they know not.  Upon
investigation we typically find that these people are really saying,
"I still have MY job, so what's the problem?"
   So, Dr. Tolman, let's see a posting of all those industrial
research labs you know about that have openings for computer science
PhDs.  A list of the 20 or 30 labs with the largest number of current
openings would be sufficient.  We would like to check the data on
which your beliefs are based.


-- 
_____________________________________________________________________
     __    __    __    __    __    __    __    __    __    __    __  
 |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  | 
                                                                     
  Steven Vere                   Cold War Surplus Computer Scientist
  Boulder Creek, California                         vere@netcom.com  
     * Artificial Intelligence Research and Seasoned Firewood *
     __    __    __    __    __    __    __    __    __    __    __  
 |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  | 
_____________________________________________________________________