From: keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Christmas
Date: 24 Nov 1992 05:55:08 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
NNTP-Posting-Host: punisher.caltech.edu

>The book of John tells us that Jesus birth came about by the will of
>God and not by the will of man.  He was born of a virgin (the seed of
>a woman - no male sperm was needed.)  God caused Mary to conceive - that
>is the miracle of the birth.  God humbled himself and was found in
>the form of a human - he was made flesh.  However, God is more than
>just Jesus, for there is the Father, the Son (Jesus), and the Holy Spirit.

I've read some pretty interesting books in my time.  Would you like to 
hear about them?

>>Everyone celebrates Christmas now.  It is a national holiday, no longer
>>purely religious. 
>This is true.  But the religious tones are still very strong.  Why do
>you think we have this season?  Is it not because of the greatest gift
>of all - Jesus the Christ, the Savior of the World?

Bah, Jesus has nothing to do with Christmas now.  Ask any child.  Santa
Claus and Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer are much more popular than
Jesus ever will be.

Don't get me wrong.  The season celebrates the spirit of giving.  This
is good.

>>                  Oh sure, the Churches try to rake in the money, but
>How is it that you understand that "the Churchers try to rake in the money"?

I said the Churches...  they try to advertise the Jesus deal in order to
try to make people feel guilty.  The guilty people will give to the 
church in one way or another to try to ease their guilt.  Guilt is
basically why religion is so powerufl sometimes.

>>most people now ignore any religious significance the holiday once had.
>Oh.  Why is Christmas and Easter the peak attendance days in the church?
>(I wished the ones that only come then would commmit to Jesus and be there
>all the time.)

See above.  These people that go to church on these days are not really
Christians.  They are only phonies--people that play the religious game
twice a year.

And besides, if I were going to visit a church, I would do so on these
days only because the music, etc. will be the best, or at least most
prepared.

>>It seems like most religions have a clebration near the solstice anyway...
>The timing is not the big thing - it is the occasion.  Jesus came, we
>should celebrate everyday, but we can also celebrate more so on this one day.
>Jesus' work is finished and its benefits are available to all.

Well, the timing IS important.  You are above trying to say that everyone
who celebrates on this day is doing it in the honor of you diety.  This
is not the case.  People celebrated on this day long before Jesus,
and they still continue to do so in spite of him.

>>How do we perceive Jesus' birth?  Well, one way or another, he succeeded
>>in getting quite a few followers, nowadays.  His birth is significant for
>Maybe he was a little more than just another man.  I believe he was. :-)

Well, you can believe whatever you wish.

>>that reason.  But was the pregnancy or birth supernatural?  Nah...
>Why do you say "Nah" - do you discount miracles and so discount before
>hand that Jesus was born of a virgin????

Yes.

keith

Xref: sparky talk.religion.misc:21758 alt.atheism:21839