HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott Tai)
Subject: /T/ Responding to Tai
Reply-To: tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott Tai)
Organization: NCSU Artificial Intelligence Systems Laboratory
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 23:07:18 GMT

douglash@meaddata.com (Douglas Holzworth) writes:

> I now recognize Scott's name from another newsgroup which he badgered about
> bigotry and elitism (remember the China Doll tirade, Scott?).

In all seriousness, I don't know what you're talking about.  rec.org.mensa
is the only newsgroup I've posted to about those topics.  You must have
me confused with someone else... since I'm not even aware of any 'China Doll'.

> You appear to be an otherwise intelligent individual.

What can I say...

---------
Scott Tai
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: roger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: /T/T/T/ Mensa Frauds Exposed - Fraud #1
Originator: news@ernie.Princeton.EDU
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 02:47:32 GMT

In article <1992Apr8.175950.14808@ncsu.edu> tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott Tai) writes:
>roger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig) writes:

>> Now, once again, where't the implication?  Use Mensa documents and other
>> information about ACTUAL Mensa practices (not the ones YOU've assumed,
>> implied, inferred, or fantasized about) to demonstrate your point.

>Where is MENSA documentation available?

Why, from MENSA!

Their phone numbers and addresses have been posted here innumerable
times recently.  Why not call?

Also, Mensa mmebers tend to have such information.  Try asking one.

Nicely.

Roger
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: roger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: do sat/gre scores correspond to iq?
Originator: news@ernie.Princeton.EDU
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 06:27:42 GMT

In article <1992Apr14.002047.19807@risky.ecs.umass.edu> hegenber@ganzer.ecs.umass.edu writes:
>I noticed that the sat/gre scores listed
>in the mensa application materials were
>about ten times the iq scores. Is this
>a coincidence, or is my sat/gre score
>actually ten times my "iq", for what
>it's worth? Please, no hate mail, I
>just wanted to know what it means.


OK: the SAT/GRE numbers you see are totals of two tests each, verbal and
math.  Verbal and math scores are each equated to a standard population
that had a mean of 500, and a standard deviation of 100.  (Current means
are somewhat lower.)

Now, IQ is normed to have a mean of 100 and a standard deviation of 15
(for the Stanford-Binet and Wechsler), and 100/something else for some
other tests.  So, coincidentally, the means for the summed SAT and IQ
are apart by a factor of 10.  

Next, there ARE correlations between IQ and board scores.  But they're
not perfect, by a long shot, and don't give very close prediction in the
individual case.

The problems get stickier: the IQ and SAT populations are different.
The mean for IQ is supposedly the mean for the whole US (or whatever)
population; the mean for SAT is the mean of college-bound students
taking the test (in 1950, btw., when fewer colleges required it).  And,
of course, the GRE population is weirder still.

So, the short answer is: you can't tell your IQ from your SAT scores.
But if you went to college, you probably have an above-average IQ.
Hope that helps.

Roger

Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: michaelg@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Michael Greenwald)
Subject: Re: (T) INTELLIGENCE DEBATE: PART I
Organization: CS Department, Stanford University, California, USA
Date: 13 Apr 92 15:34:25 GMT

roger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig) writes:

>In article <1992Apr13.040101.12632@ncsu.edu> 
>tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott Tai) writes:
>>-------------------------
>>INTELLIGENCE AND HEREDITY
>>-------------------------

>>ARTHUR R. JENSEN
>>THE HERITABILITY OF INTELLIGENCE
>>--------------------------------

>Date of this article?   Source?  

>Also, isn't it a bit odd that you're quoting (without comment) Arthur
>Jensen, who DOES (in his book) argue for racial differences in IQ?
>[...]

I assume that's Scott's point.  

Cyril Burt is now generally accepted as having perpetrated a fraud.
(Someone on the net posted that even Jensen apparently considered
Burt's work to be fraudulent.)  Arthur Jensen is (less generally)
considered to be a racist by many (I hesitate to quantify this, but I
think it's safe to say "at least a significant minority of Americans")
people.

Jensen's views (at least the ones presented in the quoted article),
presumably, were meant to coincide with Mensa's views on IQ and
heredity.  Perhaps the intent is to tar Mensa with same brush: racism.

I'm sure that Scott will eventually enlighten us as to his point.  But
I'm assuming that Scott is fully aware of who Jensen is, and isn't
using him as a source of information, but rather as a rhetorical
device.

I don't know what Mensa's, or individual Mensan's, views on IQ and
heredity are, so I can't comment on how closely Jensen's line
parallels Mensa's.  Even if they coincide, I do think, though, that
agreement with some of Jensen's beliefs doesn't imply that one
necessarily ends up espousing his racist views.

Unless, of course, Scott can argue that the racist views follow
logically (or even rhetorically) from Mensa's view (to the extent that
it exists, and is monolithic) on IQ and heredity.
From: Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Goodby, Mr. Tai
Date: 7 Apr 92 08:25:46 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:143/207.1 - Sunnyvale Fido Conn, Sunnyvale CA


As soon as I save this message, "Scott Tai" goes into my twit filter.  His messages
will still appear on my BBS, but will not make their way to my point system--and
since I never access the BBS messages other than through the point system, I
shall no longer see his messages here.

So, Scotty, I bid you fond adieu with "Good bye to bad rubbish."
 
/207 143/207
--  
Mike Steiner
UUCP: uts.amdahl.com!kennel!207.1!Mike.Steiner
INTERNET: Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG
"The views expressed above are those of Mike Steiner only."
From: Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: /T/ What we say and what we do
Date: 7 Apr 92 08:02:02 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:143/207.1 - Sunnyvale Fido Conn, Sunnyvale CA


Scott Tai writes about "/T/ What we say and what we do" to All  [06 Apr 92 21:46]

ST> This from a man who has had no less than 31 posts to my articles 
ST> over the past couple of days...

Are you so egocentric that you count the number of posts that you garner?
 
/207 143/207
--  
Mike Steiner
UUCP: uts.amdahl.com!kennel!207.1!Mike.Steiner
INTERNET: Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG
"The views expressed above are those of Mike Steiner only."
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott Tai)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: /T/T/T/ The 2% Rule
Date: 8 Apr 92 22:27:52 GMT
Reply-To: tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott Tai)
Organization: NCSU Artificial Intelligence Systems Laboratory

Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Mike Steiner) writes:

> What the fuck does that have to do with it, asshole?  Oh, I get
it--you're not
> against Mensa; you're against a newsgroup about Mensa.

Evidently you've never heard of 'tongue-in-cheek' humor.  I'm not surprised.
I can tell from your post that you're a very intelligent man.  NOT!

---------
Scott Tai
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: roger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: Unbelievable Jump in GRE Score
Originator: news@ernie.Princeton.EDU
Organization: Princeton University
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 06:18:16 GMT

In article <1992Apr14.003643.27016@spool.cs.wisc.edu> 
zack@shorty.cs.wisc.edu (Zack Xu) writes:

>    On 3/25's Wall Street Journal, there's a front-page article about
>a case where a family sued ETS (Educational Testing Service which makes
>all the standardized tests, e.g. SAT, GRE).

Well, most of them.  They don't make the MCAT or the ACT, and they spun
off the LSAT some time ago.

>    Here's the story.  A high-school guy in New Jersey took his first
>SAT in May of 1990(?), he only got 660 as the combined score.  Then
>he took SAT again in November, and he scored 400 more points, around
>1050.  But ETS refused to release his score and suspected he somehow
>cheated the second time.  Their only reason for suspicion: it's not
>plausible for someone's score to jump 400 more points. 

That's the only *stated* reason.  they may have others.

> The article 
>also reported that every year there are about 100 people whose SAT scores
>are refused to be released due to a jump of 350 points or more.  For

Correct.

>more details, please read the newspaper article.

>    My question is:  have any of you had such an experience?  like score
>> 350 points on an ETS exam than the previous time you took it.  What
>happened?  Did they release your score, or offered to give you a full
>refund.  Does ETS has this rule that one's score shall not be released if
>(s)he scored 350 points lower the previous time?  

No, I don't think so.  On the other hand, when that happens, one might
WANT the scores to be withheld!  8-)  (I believe you can, in fact, tell
them to cancel the scores BEFORE you receive them.)

>    If they do have this rule, is there a time limit?  I'd think it's
>perfectly possible for one's score to jump > 350 points after > 1 year. 

Still fairly unlikely.  I'm sure they've studied that very question.

Now, note that they offered the student a free retest, and that their
policy has been around for a long time.  They have standards to
maintain, and tell people in advance that they may not release scores
they're uncomfortable with.

Roger
From: Dave.Aronson@f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Dave Aronson)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Who's in charge here?
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1992 23:12:12 -0500

gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart) writes:

 g> Or, "Humor?  THAT'S not MENSA RELATED!"

Feh!  My rules on the Fidonet Mensa echo recognize it as Mensa-related:

  (Whether pun chains count as off-topic is debatable; they could be
  considered an "honorary Mensa topic" <grin>.)
From: eab@uh.msc.edu (Edward Bertsch)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: decimal prefix
Date: 7 Apr 92 01:11:52 GMT
Organization: Minnesota Supercomputer Center

In article <702507541.F00005@blkcat.UUCP>, Dave.Aronson@f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Dave Aronson) writes:
|> lipscomb@lonestar.utsa.edu (David S. Lipscomb) writes:
|> 
|>  DSL> I am a lowly student who is trying to write a story.  The problem is
|>  DSL> that an important part of this story is incomplete.  
|>  DSL> The incomplete part is
|>  DSL> I need to know the decimal prefixes for ten from the powers 1 to 21.
|> 
|>  If I understand correctly what you mean by "decimal prefix", this is
|>  not standardized internationally.  I *think* the US and UK systems go:
|> 
|>  Power  USA name        UK name
|>  -----  --------        -------
|>   3     thousand        thousand
|>   6     million         million
|>   9     billion         thousand million
|>  12     trillion        billion
                           ~~~~~~~
|>  15     quadrillion     thousand billion
|>  18     quintillion     trillion
                            ~~~~~~~
|>  21     sextillion      thousand trillion
|>  24     septillion      quadrillion
                            ~~~~~~~~~~
|>  27     octillion       thousand quadrillion
|>  30     ?               quintillion
|>  33     decillion       thousand quintillion
|>  etc.
|> 

wow.  There must be some mighty confused children running around in the UK.
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but the scientific and industrial
world uses the U.S. system.  For someone to use the term billion when
they mean trillion is not a good thing.  At least a foot is always a foot,
and a pound is always a pound (the world around).


|>  The US system incorporates the Latin name for the number ONE LESS than
|>  the number of sets of THREE zeroes, whereas the UK system uses the
|>  number of sets of SIX zeroes (or if you prefer, HALF the number of sets
|>  of three zeroes).

--

Edward A. Bertsch (eab@msc.edu)   Minnesota Supercomputer Center, Inc.
Operations/User Services          1200 Washington Avenue South
(612) 626-1571 work               Minneapolis, Minnesota  55415
(612) 645-0168 voice mail

	"Read _MY_ lips: I won't be voting for Bush in 1992"
From: Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: (T) INTELLIGENCE DEBATE: PART I
Date: 14 Apr 92 04:54:48 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:143/207.1 - Sunnyvale Fido Conn, Sunnyvale CA


Michael Greenwald writes about "Re: (T) INTELLIGENCE DEBATE: PART I" to All
 [13 Apr 92 10:17]

MG> Cyril Burt is now generally accepted as having perpetrated a 
MG> fraud.

The most recent evidence available throws doubt upon the allegations of fraud;
however, not all the evidence is in yet.
 
/207 143/207
--  
Mike Steiner
UUCP: uts.amdahl.com!kennel!207.1!Mike.Steiner
INTERNET: Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG
"The views expressed above are those of Mike Steiner only."
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: michaelg@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Michael Greenwald)
Subject: Re: Fermat's flunkeys (was Re: A Real Challenge)
Organization: CS Department, Stanford University, California, USA
Date: 10 Apr 92 19:54:00 GMT

werme@alliant.com (Ric Werme) writes:

>So, why do Michael and I think this is so well known and Chris and other
>posters have only recently heard about it?

I no longer think it is as well known as I thought.  I >do< still
think it is easy to look up by most people who can understand it and
have access to this net.

>	Hey Michael, you don't suppose there are people unfamilar
>with the various sets of three laws (e.g. Kepler, Thermo, Robotics)?

I'm a little embarassed, perhaps, that I happen to be familiar with
the third.  I don't think it's important that people remember them,
but I do think most people should be able to look up the first two.
From: tjfeue@bb1t.monsanto.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: /T/ Mensa Frauds Exposed - reasons exposed
Date: 13 Apr 92 14:39:39 CST
Organization: Monsanto Company, St. Louis, MO

In article <1992Apr9.221421.10640@Cadence.COM>, vince@Cadence.COM (Vince Gibboni) writes:
> (Roger Lustig) writes:

>     certain ethnic groups, or, perhaps, to a correlation between intelligence
>     and race. It's my impression that, although most will not publicly 

Of course there is a correlation between intelligence and race...
Haven't you ever noticed the kind of nimrods that run in the 
Boston Marathon?  Run 26 miles when a smart person would just 
hop in the car.          ;-)

  TED FEUERBACH   Scientific Systems Consultant  Trilogy Consulting, Inc. 
  Lake St. Louis, MO        (314) 537-6603       tjfeue@bb1t.monsanto.com
  Disclaimer:  The opinions expressed herein are MY OWN and obviously not
  the opinions of Trilogy, Monsanto or either of my two ex-wives.           

Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: sue@netcom.com (Sue Miller)
Subject: Re: Who's in charge here?
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 92 17:46:38 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

In article <xyzzy> (Dave Aronson) writes:
>
> Mainly because I wanted to know if there was someone who could render a
> final decision on what, if anything, the Official Topic of this group
> is and how close we must stick to it, and such questions as might arise
> later, such as the Official Policy on various things like flames,
> crossposts, commercial advertising, obscenity, etc. etc. etc.
>
> In Fidonet, echoes are almost never moderated in the Usenet sense of
> preemptive censorship (the technology exists but it's nonstandard), but
> almost always moderated in the sense that there is someone in charge,
> who makes and posts the rules, tells people when they're out of line
> (and kicks them out if "need" be), etc.  So it surprised me to find
> that many newsgroups, even on the "official" hierarchies (analogous, I
> guess, to our "backbone", which requires that all echoes carried there
> have moderators), aren't moderated even in the Fidonet sense.
>
> Seems to work OK when the users are mature enough.  Maybe the
> prerequisite of net access acts as a slightly better twit filter than
> the Fidonet filter, which is merely access to any machine with a modem.
>


No usenet groups which are unmoderated are at all moderated.  Such
control has never existed in the usenet world since day 1.  And the
prerequisite of net access has never, in my experience (7+ years),
acted as any type of twit filter.  What you have to do is laugh,
instead.  :-)

BTW moderated groups ARE cool (when the moderator is cool, which is
commonly the case) - one wades through very little stuff, and you
get more information per minute of your time.  I read both types -
rec.org.mensa, etc., for bull-shittin', and comp.dcom.telecom, etc., for
information about my "field".

All in fidonet-land repeat to yourself: usenet is anarchy, usenet is
anarchy, usenet is anarchy.  
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: jwp@chem.ucsd.edu (John Pierce)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Another "real challenge"
Date: 6 Apr 1992 20:23:54 GMT
Organization: Chemistry Dept, UC San Diego
NNTP-Posting-Host: chedccf0.ucsd.edu

For those who find Fermat's problem a little too challenging to tackle
immediately, here's one to warm up on.  I've forgotten the proper name
for it, but as far as I know it is still an open question.

Given this alogrithm:

    (1)  Pick any integer N
    (2)  If N is even, divide it by 2; if N is odd, multiply it by 3 and add 1
    (3)  Replace N with the result of (2) and repeat (2)

For example, start with 7.  By iterating (2), we generate the series

    7, 22, 11, 34, 17, 52, 26, 13, 40, 20, 10, 5, 16, 8, 4, 2, 1

The conjecture is that for all integers, the alogrithm results in
the series "4, 2, 1".

Fifteen or so years ago, SD Mensan Norman Pos (a physicist/mathematician at
NOSC) showed me a very strong calculus-based argument (though not a proof)
that it was true.  SD Mensan John Rawls, (another physicist/mathematician,
then at UCSD and now at General Atomic, I believe) did not believe, again
based on calculus arguments, the conjecture to be true, though he believed
that it was "likely" that all integers eventually generate some infinitely
repeating sequence.

Some things are trivially obvious about it, e.g., that it is equivalent to
stating that for all odd integers the alogrithm will eventually generate a
number of the form 2^M where M is even.  I played with it for a year or so,
looking at relationships between the initial N (expressed in various forms)
and the exponent at which (3N + 1) enters the power-of-two series.  There
was some interesting stuff there, but nothing on which I could ever get a
firm enough grip to prove anything significant1.

Anyway... have fun with it if you like this sort of thing.

-- John Pierce, Chemistry, UC San Diego
   jpierce@ucsd.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: kyle@uunet.uu.net (Kyle Jones)
Subject: Re: A short test
Organization: UUNET Technologies, Inc
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 18:52:46 GMT

 > Q1) What does Q1 mean? 

This is purely a question of epistemology.  The fixed stars move,
but Corny Toastys, the world's greatest breakfast food, still
represents the pseudo-position of a Diedrich quantum integer in
relation to the seventh coefficient of curvature!

(apologies to R. Zelazny)

Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: peltz@cerl.uiuc.edu (Steve Peltz)
Subject: Re: SAT scores and Mensa
Organization: Computer Based Education Research Lab - University of Illinois
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 19:14:02 GMT

In article <TERRYK.92Apr14094452@fenix.encore.com> terryk@encore.com
(Terence M. Kelleher) writes:

>Must have been taken during your lifetime.

Ok, I'll check, but I think that won't be a problem...

>College SAT (Verbal & Math combined     prior to 9/77        1300
>                                        effective 9/77       1250

Oh, darn, I was hoping for an exclusive group. Well, maybe I'll look into
it anyway.

>Best to try for yourself.  Contact your local group.  

Ok, maybe I will. Now that UIUC has this newsgroup, can anyone here tell me
about the local group?
-- 
Steve Peltz
Internet: peltz@cerl.uiuc.edu	PLATO/NovaNET: peltz/s/cerl
From: Mike_Steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Boy scouts aren't gay! (was Re: Exclusive organizations and net usage
Date: 7 Apr 92 00:35:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: claris.14148
Organization: Claris Corporation

In article <1992Apr4.224100.7961@uc.msc.edu>, eab@uh.msc.edu (Edward Bertsch) writes:
> 
> 
> So, the boy scouts don't like homosexuals.  I'll say it again. So WHAT!
> If homosexuals don't like the boy scouts not liking them, they are free
> not to join.  If you don't like the boy scouts not liking homosexuals,
> you are free not to join them.  If you don't like what the United Way
> does with its money, don't give them any.  Is it too tough for people
> to have others hold opinions different than their own?
> 
> By the way, the U.S. government discriminates against homosexuals, and
> excludes them from the military.  So you want to argue about this
> 'chartered' business placing some kind of restriction on the actions
> and policies the scouts can have?
> 
> I don't think so!

Mr. Bertsch, meet Mr. Tai; you two should get along very well together.
From: moroney@ramblr.enet.dec.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: TIME TRAVEL
Date: 6 Apr 92 17:59:26 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation

In article <1992Apr6.013349.20476@ncsu.edu>, cjdcosta@eos.ncsu.edu (CHRISTOPHER J DCOSTA) writes...
>From what I remember, this person ( a reasonably reliable guy )
>told me he'd read about a Navy experiment (in Time, I think) that
>took place sometime soon after the second world war. A battleship
>(which is pretty much mostly metal)  was wired up to act as a
>gigantic electro - magnet and moved to some distance from the shore 
>so that it was still pretty clearly visible.  When current was passed
>(and this huge electro magnet activated), people on the shore reported
>seeing the ship  disappear, then reappear . . I think this happened a
>number of times. It was believed that the ship had, momentarily, 
>TRAVELLED IN TIME before returning to the present. Those people on 
>board the ship at the time were found to be severely disoriented, and
>I'm not sure if they recovered. 

This was discussed in another group a while back.  From what people who know
of the weapons technology of the time, there was a project where they encased
a ship in huge electromagnetic coils while in drydock, but the purpose was to
degauss the ship.  The ships, before degaussing, had a magnetic field of their
own, and enemy magnetic mines would sense the change in the earth's magnetic
field from the approach of this ship/magnet and detonate.  So, in a way, the
program did make ships invisible, but to magnetic mines, not human eyes.

-Mike
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa