HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bud@ms.uky.edu (William K Glunt)
Subject: Re: White: Color of Gis, Color of Mourning - ?
    <1992Apr7.023051.2181@wam.umd.edu> <YD3181J@netmbx.netmbx.de>
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 19:28:54 GMT
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences
X-Bytes: 

In article <YD3181J@netmbx.netmbx.de> fischer@netmbx.netmbx.de (Axel Fischer) writes:
>In article <1992Apr7.023051.2181@wam.umd.edu> beawoulf@wam.umd.edu writes:
>>William K Glunt writes
>>By the way, can anyone tell me about MA in various branches of the millitary?
>

 Watch the attribution please. 

Osu!

Bud


-- 
Dr. William K Glunt     | Are you ABNORMAL?
************************| Then you are probably better than most people!
U of Kentucky math dept | Are alien space monsters bringing a STARTLING NEW
home phone 606 258 8864 | WORLD?  from _The book of the SubGenius_
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: ninjam@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Marty aka Ninjam aka Who Cares...)
Subject: Dougie-Poo
Originator: ninjam@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 20:53:12 GMT

As I said before Doug, tell it to someone who cares.

If any of the people I was having conversations with (Dave, Mary,
ect...) had a dissagreement with what I was saying,  then they told me
so, and politely, as I have been doing the same.  You seem to be the
only one that has something to prove, and in a childish manner at that.
You don't want to believe something I say, then fine, no one is
telling you to, just as anyone else here can make up their mind in
what they believe in.  Anything I have mentioned is from personal
experience, or from personal conversation with some of your own peers
here on rec.martial-arts.
Your childish games have gone on long enough.  You seek to blackmail
me, your harrass me in mail, you try and be judge and jury to
everything I say because YOU feel I couldn't posibly know a thing
because I'm only 21 years old.  You know nothing about me or what
I do, or what experience I have. 
If you want to drag this thing out further then get it over with
allready, come over to Milwaukee tap your foot three times in
front of me, and challenege me. Otherwise, take my comments as
opinions based on a persons experience (which is what everyone's is),
and keep your petty bickering to yourself.


Marty
From: psc@sei.cmu.edu (Peter Capell)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Swords, points, etc.
Date: 10 Apr 92 13:22:28 GMT


Yes Steve G., I did have a bad experience with *Shotokan*.  I had a pretty
good experience with Go Ju however.  My teacher was brilliant in Go Ju.  But
having experienced Shotokan, Go Ju Ryu, Isshinryu (sp?), I acknowledge them
only as "Chinese derivatives."  I was never satisfied until I found the real
thing.  I credit the Japanese for their simplifications, at the same time I 
criticize the Japanese for their simplifications--if you know what I mean.
Plus, I have a truely ostentatious hot button about the lack of appropriate
Japanese attribution to the Chinese.  In only one case, a friend of mine from
Hamamatsu told me that even the Japanese regard their own philosophy as "Giant
Eagle" (a generic food chain in Pittsburgh) compared to the Chinese.  Having
experienced both the Japanese and Chinese arts, I know that the Japanese, in
removing many attributes that they either regarded as flourishes, or were
simply never taught by the Chinese (Funakoshi developed his art directly from
the Chinese), have in essence eviscerated the form.  

The hot button wouldn't be nearly so sore had it not been for the Shotokan
experience though.  I have never in my life run into a more arrogant, power
intoxicated, moronic bunch in my life as I met here in Pittsburgh at that
time.  I did however have one great lesson when a master Oshima came here to
teach a group class.  And so I don't fault the system, only the local
egotistical leadership.  I'm still fighting those dragons, mea culpa.

Nonetheless, my earlier remarks stand of their own.
From: upload@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Robinson)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Crush and maim (was: How to choose...)
Keywords: Crunch, Break, Ow!
Date: 13 Apr 92 20:17:58 GMT
Article-I.D.: agate.scq9mINN6es
Organization: Institute of Cognitive Studies, U.C. Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: cogsci.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Apr13.155027.17426@mcs.anl.gov> sasso@flounder.phy.anl.gov (John F. Sasso) writes:
>In article <sb600INN1m6@agate.berkeley.edu> I, Michael Robinson, write:
>>"But we could hurt people if we wanted too!" they say.
>>
>>First of all, one cannot deny that what aikidoka spend almost all their energy
>>doing is training techniques designed for use against one or a small group 
>>of essentially untrained assailants, with the intention of preventing medical
>>and/or legal action all around.
>
>Well I can deny this!

See what I mean?  It's obvious even to me that Judo and Aikido are completely
different, even though both are derived from the same arts, and both have
been modified to make them "safe".  The question, then, becomes:  why, how,
and under what circumstances.

Looked at from this perspective, I believe my point becomes clear.

>>But more importantly, what difference does it make?  Even if every aikido
>>technique were certified 100% harmless, would this in any way devalue the
>>art?  Or somehow make it inferior to more ICU-oriented arts?
>
>Only a few of the techniques can be made 100% harmless.  All of the
>throws are meant to cause severe harm.  Several of the locks can
>be applied in a non-damaging way, but only vs a non-martial-artist.

And here it is again.  Even speaking hypothetically, Aikidoka seem to lack
the courage of their convictions.  You'll note my (very serious) question 
goes unanswered.

If the issue is self-defense, it seems to me the only relevant question is
can you defend yourself.  If you can, why would you need to inflict more harm
than necessary in the process?  And why do Aikidoka feel compelled to point
out that they could if they wanted to?

I mean, isn't that sort of sick?
From: acevedo@athena.mit.edu (Gabriel)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Bruce flame
Date: 15 Apr 92 14:24:15 GMT
	<ACEVEDO.92Apr13082303@air-traffic-controller.mit.edu> <1011@xlnt.COM>
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology


   It is Gene, not Grace.  Grace was not even a dancer.

I knew that.  I just misspelled it.   ;-)
--
Raul Acevedo
acevedo@Athena.MIT.EDU

"Remember, Information is not knowledge; Knowledge is not Wisdom;
Wisdom is not truth; Truth is not beauty; Beauty is not love;
Love is not music; Music is the best."
	 - Frank Zappa
From: akif@sequent.com (Aki Fleshler)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Zen Flesh, Zen Bones  by Paul Reps
Date: 7 Apr 92 18:28:10 GMT
Article-I.D.: sequent.1992Apr7.182810.26860
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc.

In article <ku3ik8INN2gi@aludra.usc.edu> pauljone@aludra.usc.edu (Michael Jones) writes:
>In article <ku3g8dINN6al@male.EBay.Sun.COM> scheid@danzan.EBay.Sun.COM (David Scheid) writes:
>>
>>The book is still available in paperback. See your
>>local bookdealer. It's readily available.
>
>This book is a nice introduction to the ideas of Zen.  I got it as
>a paperback with about a hundred pages.  It's filled with stories
>that are one or two pages long.  I've bought several copies, 'cause
>I keep giving it away!  Also of interest is a book called _The Ronin_,
>which is a story incorporating several of the chapters of ZFZB.

I recommend "Zen and the Ways", Trevor Legett, Shambala Press. Sane
presentation of Zen-for-warriors.

-- 
*******************************************************************************
Aki Fleshler                                  * akif@sequent.com
Information Technology			      * tektronix!ogicse!sequent!akif
Sequent Computer Systems Inc.                 * (503) 578-4570
From: pitaro@rocket.sanders.lockheed.com (Michael Pitaro)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Ouch! Groin kick
Date: 8 Apr 92 19:15:18 GMT
Reply-To: pitaro@rocket.sanders.com
Organization: Lockheed Sanders, Inc.
In-reply-to: tms@cs.umd.edu's message of 8 Apr 92 05:11:02 GMT

>In article <52766@mimsy.umd.edu> tms@cs.umd.edu (Tom Swiss (not Swift, not Suiss, Swiss!)) writes:
>
>	5) The first thing that popped into my head after I was hit was
>   an old Bill Cosby routine about being hit in the groin during a 
>   nationally televised football game...

Sounds like it might be funny.  Please post Bill's story.
--
Michael Pitaro
pitaro@rocket.sanders.com
From: mary@Cayman.COM (Mary Malmros)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Fashions (was: Black Belt)
Date: 7 Apr 92 23:16:28 GMT
	<1992Apr5.003358.12464@cs.rose-hulman.edu>,<MARY.92Apr6092536@martinique.Cayman.COM>
	<1992Apr7.020455.17544@cs.rose-hulman.edu>
Organization: Cayman Systems Inc., Cambridge, MA
In-reply-to: acharya@HYDRA.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU's message of 7 Apr 92 02:04:55 GMT


In article <1992Apr7.020455.17544@cs.rose-hulman.edu> acharya@HYDRA.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU writes:

   In article <MARY.92Apr6092536@martinique.Cayman.COM>, mary@Cayman.COM (Mary Malmros) writes:

[stuff about my doboks, my hakama, and how I wash 'em deleted]

	   waitaminit...are we talking dobok or hakama here? 

Both.  Just not at the same time.

   if dobok (what is a
   dobok?), 

Karate people call it a gi.  Dobok's just Korean for gi.

   how does it apply to hakama; 

It doesn't.

   if hakama, what is mary doing wearing an
   hakama? 

AN hakama?  Heh heh heh.

   i though tkd people wore a gi (heh heh, a GI)

DOBOK.  DOBOK DOBOK DOBOK.  So there.

   ...so what is the deal
   mary? moonlighting in an aikido dojo are we :^)?

Not on a bet.  I wear 'em for jodo.  Quaint archaic clothes for a 
quaint archaic martial art.

Doing TKD in hakama, WHAT a scary thought...
--


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Mary Malmros     | Cayman Systems Inc, 26 Landsdowne St, Cambridge, MA 02139
 mary@cayman.com  | Phone 617-494-1999  Fax 617-494-5167  AppleLink CAYMAN.TECH
From: jphillip@en.ecn.purdue.edu (James C Phillips)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Ninpo in Germany
Date: 15 Apr 92 14:54:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: en.1992Apr15.145400.8330
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network


	I will be spending this summer in Germany and am looking for someone
to train with in Ninpo.

	If you happen to know of someone, I would appreciate any leads.

	Thanks.
-- 
  __         ___    _                     |Jim Phillips
 / /. ____  (/__) /_   .  /) /) .  _   _  | jphillip@ecn.purdue.edu
/_/_)_) ) )_/    /  )_(__(__(__(_ /_)_/_)_| phillijc@sage.cc.purdue.edu
 /         (                     (        | phillips%purdue.dnet@fngate.fnal.gov
From: ml57+@andrew.cmu.edu (Meron Langsner)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Relationships between sword and jo
Date: 16 Apr 92 18:32:35 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.odvQV3W00iUyQ5Vdk=
	<1992Apr12.083546.17560@lclark.edu>
Organization: Freshman, H&SS general, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA


   On first glance, many jo and sword techniques look similar, does
anyone know of any relationships between these wepons ? My theory is
that the samurai, who were already proficient swordsmen, applied the
same skills to their walking sticks, then added on.
From: davidc@syma.sussex.ac.uk (David Corr)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Choosing a martial art - effectiveness?
Date: 13 Apr 92 14:13:45 GMT
Organization: University of Sussex

From article <1992Apr13.015319.19892@wam.umd.edu>, by gumby@next08cville.wam.umd.edu (Daniel David Reynolds):
> In article <1992Apr9.105517.1540@brandonu.ca> lampij@brandonu.ca writes:
>> In article <31037@skye.dcs.ed.ac.uk>, tk@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Tommy Kelly)  
> writes:
>  
>> > I want to learn an effective method of unarmed self-defence - period.
> 
> 
>      If you ever get a chance to come to Maryland, let me know, and I will  
> show you a style which is exactly that.  It is called Tai Jutsu, developed  
> by Will Maier and his teacher, Stephen K. Hayes, with input from their  
> teacher, the 32 grandmaster of Togakure-Ryu Ninjutsu, Dr. Masaaki Hatsumi.   
> Tai Jutsu is only tought in two schools in the world (both in Maryland),  
> but it will give you a feeling of what an effective self defense style is  
> like.  I am an instructor there, and will be happy to mail you some  
> information on the style.  
> 
> 
> 
> -Gumby

 If you are saying that Will Maier and Stephen K. Hayes developed Taijutsu
 you are wrong me think!!! Taijutsu is the un-armed combat method used by
 the specific art NINJUTSU and its been around alot longer than Will Maier
 and Stephen K. Hayes. Tai-jutsu is a mere part of the art !! oops..
 maybe I should call it the full name Ninpo Taijutsu!

  Dave.
From: willimsa@unix1.tcd.ie (Gavin Williams)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Funakoshi
Date: 11 Apr 92 21:58:53 GMT
Organization: Trinity College, Dublin

In <43411@as0c.sei.cmu.edu> psc@sei.cmu.edu (Peter Capell) writes:

>>>simply never taught by the Chinese (Funakoshi developed his art directly from
>                                     ^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^ ^^^ ^^^ ^^^^^^^^ ^^^^
>>>the Chinese), have in essence eviscerated the form.  

>source art.  I believe the translation of karate as a character incidentally
>can carry two meanings, one meaning is China, the other "open."  In any case,
>there are far more qualified historians on this bb than I.  But, as I
>understand it, it was some Japanese official who intervened to force Funakoshi
>to "de-Chinafy" the name of his art to mean "open hand."  If you make me go
>to the work, I will dig up the sources, although I am sure I can find them--
>so many others on this bboard have posted this stuff before.

Actually, I am not sure that anyone forced him to change the name, (although
it is true that when it started to get favoured by the emperor it would 
undoubtedly have looked bad for it to be called "chinese" hand).

My understanding was that at least a good part of the reason was rooted in
Funakoshi himself, and the move from pure karate-jutsu to karate-do.  He
wanted to convey a message in the name, empty, hollow, etc.
     
--
         ______________________________________________________________
	|  A.G. Williams          |        Plus qu'il n'en faut.       |    
	|  willimsa@unix1.tcd.ie  |                                    |
	|_________________________|____________________________________|
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: hakanson@bogart.cse.ogi.edu (Marion Hakanson)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: How to choose a Martial Art discipline?
Date: 8 Apr 92 21:40:47 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.36033
Distribution: na
Organization: Oregon Graduate Institute - Computer Science & Engineering

In article <1992Apr6.202737.24494@bnr.ca> naldrett@bcarh893.bnr.ca (Steve Naldrett) writes:
>. . .
>Here are a few suggestions, but this is only from my limited
>experience.  Every school varies somewhat, and many fit in to
>more than one category, but these are what I believe to be
>the main emphases of some MA's.  If anyone can add to or correct
>this list, please do so.

OK, I will.  I'm studying tai chi, for about 18 months in this
lifetime (what I did 10 years ago doesn't count, trust me).  All in
all, your posting is not a bad capsule summary, but your comments on
Tai Chi seem to be based on experiences different from what I've had
with my teacher.

>   a) Physical fitness: (all in one way or another)
>      Intense:
>      P - tae-kwon do, karate, judo, kung-fu
>      Moderate:
>      P - tai chi, aikido

This varies according to the student, in our classes.  But I can
honestly say that I end up with some sore muscles every week, though
these usually come from a "special" push-hands class.  But probably
the average student does experience a "moderate" amount of exercise.

Other Tai Chi people (and others who have experienced the following):
Would you consider standing for 45 minutes in what most people call
"Horse Stance" to be "moderate" or "intense" exercise?  I know, it
depends on how low you go (:-)....

>3. Means of striking, or defeating opponent?
>
>   a) Kicks and punches:
>      P - tae-kwon do, karate, kung-fu
>
>   b) Throws, twists, sweeps, locks:
>      P - aikido, aikijitsu, tai chi, kung-fu, judo, jujitsu
>      S - tae-kwon do, karate

There are a lot of punches in Tai Chi.  Kicks too (low ones), though
probably not as many as there are punches.  I'd say there were just as
many punches as locks, blocks, etc.  Usually one movement includes
several potential techniques, but that's Yin & Yang for you.

>4. Gentle or Crush-and-Maime?
>
>   a) Gentle (protect yourself without hurting opponent):
>      P - aikido, tai chi
>
>   b) Crush-and-Maime (beat opponent into quivering, broken,
>      bleeding mass):
>      P - all others?? 8-)  <- note smiley before flaming please!

Uh, the Tai Chi philosophy I've been exposed to, when talking about
self defense, has been more in the Crush and Maim category.  Here are
some quotes from my teacher.  "You punch him here, Hng!, break his
ribs."  "You pull him like this, then you break him, Pah!."  "Best
defense is a strong offense."

If you've ever seen Chen Style, these things are fairly obvious.  I
happen to study Yang Style, where it's a bit more hidden, but the
principles are the same (my teacher does both).

However, you can learn Tai Chi without ever being exposed to any of
this defense stuff -- just depends on the teacher and on what you want.

-- 
Marion Hakanson         Domain: hakanson@cse.ogi.edu
                        UUCP  : ogicse!hakanson
From: snorthc@relay.nswc.navy.mil (Stephen Northcutt)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Fashions (was: Black Belt)
Date: 6 Apr 92 17:03:08 GMT
Reply-To: snorthc@relay.nswc.navy.mil (Stephen Northcutt)
Organization: Naval Surface Warfare Center

> I'm tired of pants that are too short
I'm 6'2" inseam 34" and Century pants are too LONG for me so I have
to cuff them up.
===================================================================
   ** my dream: voice, video, data, 3 services, 1 network **
===================================================================

Stephen Northcutt (snorthc@relay.nswc.navy.mil)     Networks Program Manager
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: doug@eng.umd.edu (Douglas N. Cohen)
Subject: Re: Mail returned
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 92 01:07:22 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park, College of Engineering
Summary: corroboration....
Followup-To: doug:  < doug@eng.umd.edu > : < doug@lpf.umd.edu >
Distribution: doug
Keywords: chi, posture/stance, relax, -=-> humor

In article <rjdmjINNk13@agate.berkeley.edu> robinson@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Robinson) writes:
>In article <1992Apr03.144012.10009@eng.umd.edu> doug@eng.umd.edu (Douglas N. Cohen) writes:
>>In article <42886@as0c.sei.cmu.edu> psc@sei.cmu.edu (Peter Capell) writes:
>>>I have tried several times to respond to the mail of:
>>>			hsu@peritek.uucp
>>>to no avail.  Please give me an address (or incantation) that will work
>>>and I will be happy to correspond.  Thanks.
>>>	Peter
>>
>>	it's your chi, pete.  you have to sink lower, relax your shoulders,
>>and let your chi circulate.  then, you will be able to sent that e-mail
>>effortlessly.  you can't force it.  it has to flow.... {touch bin/smiles/#5}
>
>Also, you have to mail from your center, not your fingers.  If you try to
>mail from your fingers, you'll only be able to mail to internet sites (and
>anyone can do that).
>
>

	well, of course, but that should go without saying...
	but i guess that one should be careful about assuming the level of the
novice's understanding of the basics....  {touch bin/smiles/#4}  maybe he 
should go back to using a basic keyboard....
	as always, i am/at:

             doug:  < doug@eng.umd.edu > : < doug@lpf.umd.edu >

           -=-=-=-=-=-=-< a ghost in the machine >--=-=-=-=-=-=-
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: tac@cs.brown.edu (Ted A. Camus)
Subject: multiple opponents; combat vs. self-defense
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 21:32:02 GMT


robinson@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Robinson) writes :

>On the battlefield, you want to ensure that it is safe to turn your back 
>on your opponent, and you want to accomplish this as quickly as possible. 


  In many martial arts, it is true that against multiple opponents
  the strategy is to take them out as quickly as possible, in rapid
  succession.  This strategy is especially true for percussion-effect arts.
  
  Note, however, the statement that the opponents are taken out *in
  succession*, i.e. one after the other.  Just like in the movies, where
  the bad guys rush up to the good guy, STOP, and patiently wait for 
  their turn to spar him.  

  If, however, you have two attackers attacking *simultaneously*, they
  are not going to do this.  They are probably going to crowd you real 
  close, then jump on you together.  You can hit one, but then you will
  be in a grappling match with the other almost immediately.  And if you
  haven't taken the first one out ("one punch = one kill"), then it's
  two on one (actually "two on top of" one).


>This to me illustrates the difference between a combat art and 
>a self-defense art like aikido.  

  In Aikido, which arguably has a more martial tradition behind it,
  we often train with two or three attackers, where they are genuinely 
  trying to strike (*) or grab you.  Nage can't possibly give individual
  attention to any of them, even for a split second.  (S)he has to treat
  them as one entity (**).  I.e., there is *no* delay between one opponent 
  and the next.  In attacking one opponent, you are in the process of 
  setting up the attack for the following one; this is usually done by 
  throwing the last one *into* the next one.  

  This is not as mystical as it sounds.  In fact, one quickly learns
  that it is the only way to do it.  If any other arts seriously train 
  against multiple opponents, I'd like to hear about them (I do not
  consider most forms of two-on-one sparring to count, for the reasons 
  given above.)


  (*) An advantage of many Aikido strikes, for ex. shomenuchi (== sword hand 
      to forehead), is that they can be done with full force safely.
      Pulled punches are not necesary or desirable.

  (**) this theme appears often in Aikido texts, and deserves attention.

>In a self-defense situation, however, you only want to neutralize a 
>confrontation, and you want to accomplish this with as little fuss and 
>bother as possible. 

  This is option is always available in Aikido.

  Final note : I make no apologies for the time it takes to properly 
  learn Aikido, nor do I care to defend how some instructors may choose 
  to teach it --


==========================================================
  Ted Camus                          Box 1910 CS Dept 
  tac@cs.brown.edu                   Brown University
  tac@browncs.BITNET                 Providence, RI 02912