HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: lalibr@jec305.its.rpi.edu (Ron Scott Laliberte)
Subject: Re: Continuing Scouting in college
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 17:34:52 GMT

  Several points against Alpha Phi Omega were brought up be a previous
poster.  Id like to address them...
  First off, just as different troups have varying programs, so do the
different chapters of Alpha Phi Omega.  Some, no doubt, are as you described -
internally political, non-outdoorsman, and charging large sums of money.
  Speaking from personal experience, this is not true of all chapters...
our chapter charges ~$20/year (I forget the exact figure) most of which
do not go to the chapter, but cover fees from the national organization,
and our section.  We are far from political... and occational meeting may have
a minor amount of infighting when a difference of opinion comes up, but
our service is what is most important to us, and will always win out.  
  As far as ooutdoorsmanship.. well, we do 2 or 3 projects a year with
local scouting or other camps...we are doing an overnighter at one
in a few weeks infact... (Any brothers near Albany on the 14th, let us
know!)  We also do hiking trips, with or without scouts along... 
  There is definitely a social aspect to Alpha Phi Omega, but it is down
played by most chapters.  But if you see a chapter that you feel is being
too social.... join them, and steer them toward service.  
  In Leadership, Friendship & Service
  Vivs
  EZ Cor Sec

Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: peteg@pgroup.com (Peter Galambos)
Subject: Re: Patrol names
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1992 17:14:21 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: The Portland Group, Portland, OR


I was staffing an event at Camporee a couple of years ago when a patrol
came in carrying a flag that had the word "FLAG" in black letters on a
white background.  They were wearing patrol patches with the word "PATCH"
in black on a white background and yelled "YELL" when they came in.

You guessed it: the Generic Patrol... (Well, I thought it was amusing)

	Pete Galambos
	Advancement Chairman - Troop 280/670

Xref: sparky rec.scouting:2221 alt.atheism:14128 ba.politics:3703 ca.politics:5921
From: slagle@lmsc.lockheed.com (Mark Slagle)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.motss,alt.atheism,ba.politics,ca.politics
Subject: Re: Support for Boy Scouts
Date: 22 Jul 92 04:30:43 GMT
	<1992Jul20.212755.28174@unlinfo.unl.edu>
Reply-To: slagle@lmsc.lockheed.com
Organization: Lockheed Missiles and Space Co., Sunnyvale, Ca.
In-reply-to: rlosee@unlinfo.unl.edu's message of Mon, 20 Jul 1992 21:27:55 GMT

In article <1992Jul20.212755.28174@unlinfo.unl.edu>, rlosee@unlinfo.unl.edu (Robert Losee) writes:

> Actually Mike I've gotten two responses like yours but am surprised at
> how few.  Maybe only a couple people are reading this thread.  I also 
> need to point out that I'm not talking about a "big hairy thunderer" 
> as God but as a metaphysical rightness in the universe.  In any case 
> the number of people I've heard of who claimed a concept of God helped
> them so overwhelms others like yourself that I'll play the odds and 
> stick to wanting the BSA to keep its God policy.

The only reason the odds are in your favor is because you stacked
the deck yourself.  The framing of the issues predetermines the
response that you seek.  You also see a lot of people going
around thanking their lucky stars, but they don't thank them for
something that wasn't there.  God is not a reality in the lives
of some people.  They are not likely to give thanks for a
negative presence.

Some people blame or credit god for what happens to them, others
do the same for rabbit's feet, still others use fortune tellers
to explain their lives to themselves.  But just because your
particular brand of superstition includes a built in predilection
to thank god for everything, that does not make it objectively
correct.  You're entitled to your beliefs and your faith, and
you're entitled to claim every chance occurrence as evidence of
god's miracle, but that doesn't constitute any kind of proof of
anything.  That's why they call it faith, not fact.

But you go even further.  You also say that your faith makes 
it right for you to exclude those that don't share it from
participating in the Boy Scouts.  If the Scouts were a church
group, then I would rally behind your right to make any sort of
silly rules that you like.  But it's not, and it's not just the
bailiwick of christians or other monotheists.  It's a secular
organization that happens to have a couple of references to god
in its rituals, apparently mostly for historical reasons.  But
it's still secular.  I'd like to see it stay that way.
--
----
Mark E. Slagle                                 PO Box 61059
slagle@lmsc.lockheed.com                       Sunnyvale, CA   94088
408-756-0895                                   USA
From: psurge@cs.utexas.edu (Troy Carpenter)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Little Johns (was Re: Patrol names)
Date: 27 Jul 1992 17:12:11 -0500
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: levelland.cs.utexas.edu

In article <1992Jul27.141634.1690@rtsg.mot.com> oakes@rtsg.mot.com writes:
>
>Did they perhaps have an encounter with a "Little-John?"
>
>A Little-John is a propane powered toilet that burns #2, and goes out if used
>for #1.  For many years Camp Frank Rand (Great Southwest Council -- Located
>neary Chimayo NM, 100 or so miles south of Philmont) had two of these in most
>of the sites.  When used properly, they actually only smelled for a few minutes
>and made for little waste.  But with Boy Scouts, they often went out and caused
>other problems.
>
>I heard that they were finally eliminated a year or so ago, after the last time
>I was there.
>
>Of course, the camp I went to arround here last week only has old pits that the
>scouts complain about having to clean -- and occationally use.
>
>Ronald B. Oakes
>  Scoutmaster, Troop 91
>  Palatine IL

Wow!  Sombody actually claims to have been to Camp Frank Rand.  When I was in
scouts in Albuquerque, our troop always got in trouble for not attending 
council camp.  We always went to San Isabel Scout Ranch in Colorado, or once
we went to Camp Perry near Dallas(?).  Ok, so we did go to Rand every now and
then.

The real thing I wanted to say is that us who know and love Camp Rand
affectionately called them not little John's, but Bun Burners. (you only have
to use one to know what I mean...)



                                Troy Carpenter
                        Department of Computer Sciences
                        THE University of Texas, Austin
                              psurge@cs.utexas.edu

"You're so open minded that your brain leaked out" - Steve Taylor

*>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The best thing in life costs exactly that <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<*
From: kati@glnserv.UUCP (Lady Dragon)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: PLEASE MAKE A NEW NEWSGROUP
Date: 19 Jul 92 03:11:10 GMT
Organization: Vermi-net, Houston, Tx. 77098

daveh@frackit.UUCP (Dave Hultberg) writes:

> healthy, but to the virtual exclusion of everything else?  I would also
> like to here what activities scouts in other countries do.  What are
> their groups called?  What games, skits and songs have they used that
> would be new to my scouts?  How about talking about trading badges,
> handbooks and other scouting memorabilia?  How about a little variety in
> the subjects we discuss here?
>
> Yours in the fellowship of World Scouting,
> Dave Hultberg, Cubmaster Pack 196, Keystone Area Council, Eagle Scout '67

Thank you, Dave. I too was hoping that this would be a forum for the
exchange of information about scouting (although I'm hoping for Girl
Scouts).

I would like to thank those co/leaders who have e-mailed me and to hope we
too can feel welcome into REC.SCOUTING.

I am a Co-Leader of a new Junior scout troop in Houston, Texas. Since our
girls just became Jr.'s, I'm hoping for suggestions on how to choose and
complete badges, lots of new songs and games and such. We have a fairly
good in training but bad in buerocracy (sp?) council here.



* * email address: nuchat!xcluud!glnserv!kati * Houston, Texas, USA, Earth * *
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: slice@gagme.chi.il.us (Steve Steiner)
Subject: Re: Fundraisers
Originator: slice@gagme
Organization: Gagme Public Access UNIX, Chicago, Illinois.
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 05:20:23 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.134221.14157@uceng.UC.EDU> jgcombs@uceng.UC.EDU (Joseph Combs) writes:
>I'm an ASM with a fairly large troop (approximately 50 boys).  Our sole 
>fundraiser for the past seven years has been an annual Christmas tree sale.  
>Until recently we have always done well with this and have never needed to 
>supplement our income.  
>
>This past year we purchased a new trailer and had several major repairs as 
>well as maintenance expenses on our bus, leaving our backup funds quite low.
>We are looking for ways to bring additional money into the troop's treasury 
>and would appreciate any suggestions.  Our previous fundraiser was Doughnut
>sales after our chartering organization's Sunday services.  This worked well 
>but became too expensive to make a reasonable profit.
>
>Joe Combs
>Eagle Class of 1990
>ASM Troop 24
>Cincinnati, Ohio

Our Pack does the following:

The local grocery store chain (Jewel) will run a fund raiser called Shop
and Share.  This entails the scouts and leaders to distribute (not in front
of the store) coupons.  These coupons are then given to the cashiers at the
time of payment for a customers groceries.  The pack then receives 5% of
the before tax purchase price for that customer.  Its simple, no selling
involved, and the best part is that everybody has to go to the grocery
store.  Now for the particulars.  Jewel will give our pack the coupons, and
set the dates that they are good for (usually a 3 day period).  They
(Jewel) will do this for three months out of the year.

The other fund raiser we do is also a non selling thing.  The local Burger
King will allow our boys and leaders to be in the restaraunt for a minimum
of 4 hours.  During this time, the boys will perform the chores of the
employees that take care of the dining room (sweep the floor, wipe tables,
pick up garbage).  We then get 20% of teh sales for those hours we're
there.

Hope this helped.



Steve Steiner
Asst. Weblos Leader Tigers Den
Pack 191, Chanonee Dist. DuPage Area Council, Illinois



-- 
Steve Steiner             Preferred address   | Telephone: (708)860-2754 (home)
slice@gagme.chi.il.us   slice@seswho.chi.il.us|            (708)773-5864 (work)
If the elevator to success is out of order... |   Address: 564 Gilbert Drive 
Use the stairs                                |            Wood Dale IL 60191
From: sbgreene@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Steven Greene)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Gay Eagle Scout files suit against Boy Scouts
Date: 29 Jul 92 13:50:05 GMT
Organization: Princeton University
Originator: news@ernie.Princeton.EDU

An article with the title in the above subject line appeared in
clari.local.new_jersey (but not other clari groups) this morning.

James Dale, an Eagle Scout, is suing the BSA for kicking him out
after a photo of him at a gay event appeared in a local newspaper.
His story has previously appeared (briefly) in the Wall Street
Journal and (not quite so breifly) in NYQ (now QW) magazine.

Today's article suggests that he is suing under New Jersey's Law
Against Discrimination, which was recently amended to prohibit
discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation.  I'm a little
confused by this because he was kicked out BEFORE the law was
amended.  However, if they can bring suit under this law, the BSA
may have trouble because the case law in New Jersey suggesting that the 
BSA is a public accommodation is much clearer than in other states 
where the BSA has been sued (in my humble layperson's opinion).
From: gascan@dcst16.dc (Bill Gascoyne)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Support for Boy Scouts
Date: 27 Jul 92 16:52:48 GMT
Reply-To: gascan@dcst16.dc
Organization: LSI Logic Corporation

In article 76603@ut-emx.uucp, michaell@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Michael A. Lowry) writes:
>I've been int the BSA for almost 12 years. I started as a Boy Scout,
>and I am now an Assistant Scoutmaster in my Troop and a member of an
>Explorer post, as well as a brother of Alpha Phi Omega. At one time, I
>believed in, or thought I believed in some sort of God. I went to
>church; I received my God and Country award; I was somewhat religious.
>I have since, hoever, grown of of those beliefs. I now have what I
>consider a much stronger belief system, but it is not based on the
>supernatural. I think that the BSA symbolizes and encourages some of
>the best ideals a boy could have: learn, cooperate, be friendly, work
>hard, play hard, tell the truth, etc.. Just look at the Scout Law--
>Trustworthy, Loyal, Helpful, Friendly, Curteous, Kind, Obediennt,
>Cheerful, Brave, Clean, Reverent. I am all of these. Yes- even I, an
>atheist, am reverent... but not to god. I hold my own, secular
>beliefs, and I believe (for no particular reason) that there is good
>in everyone. So why should the BSA push or force boys into one small,
>focused set of religious beliefs? Poeple are all different. It is
>ridiculous to assume that it is possible to limit such a wonderful
>organization as the BSA to such a narrow view of the future. 


Well said!  Just don't let National hear you say that too loud, or they'll
probably kick you out.  That, in a nutshell, is the entire (intollerant) problem.
---
1. Bill Gascoyne
ASM, T31, Los Altos, CA
Eagle 1976
From: kmeyer@aero.org (Kraig R. Meyer)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Eagle Scout Projects
Date: 29 Jul 92 22:12:10 GMT
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA


On Wed, 29 Jul 92 20:00:18 GMT, jmcc@ticipa.pac.sc.ti.com (John McCollum) said:>   Some of the Eagle projects in our troop have included painting and repair
> of playground equipment for local schools or churches and voter registration
> drives at retirement homes.  The latter was suggested by a local state
> representative because a lot of the elderly people at these places couldn't
> get out to register or vote.  Several years ago I heard of an Eagle who
> organized the effort to glue the blue reflectors in the streets next to 
> the fire hydrants for easy location by the Fire Dept.

My Eagle project, and several that followed in my troop, was in a city
park.  I spoke to the head of the Dept of Parks and Recreation of my
city (Ann Arbor at the time).  He gave me the following suggestion:
go to any park near your home, and figure out an improvement that could
be made to it.  Write down a plan and send it to me, and if the supplies
aren't too expensive, the city will deliver them to the park. 

For my project, I refurbished trails in a wooded park.  The city brought
in two truckloads of woodchips, and we carried them by wheelbarrel down
the trails and spread them throughout the park.  We also did some 
pruning of overgrown trees, etc.


I think this is a great thread, but I do want to make one point about
the posting above regarding voter registration drives.  Invariably,
registration drives are targeted torwards groups in a way that benefits
a specific political party.  Democrats run drives in places like state
university campuses because they know they will probably register more
democrats than republicans.  Republicans run drives in places like
nursing homes because they frequently will register more republicans
than democrats.  

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
| The opinions expressed above are my own and do not necessarily          |
| represent those of The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA.           |
|									  |
| Kraig R. Meyer		   	                 kmeyer@aero.org  |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: wjturner@iastate.edu ()
Subject: Re: Support for Boy Scouts
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 18:19:38 GMT

In article <ag2xfhg@rpi.edu> lalibr@jec305.its.rpi.edu (Ron Scott Laliberte) writes:
>  Anyway, my point is, no definitely don't "throw God out of scouting"  just 
>be a litle more liberal about how you define your terms...
>  In Leadership, Friendship & Service
>Vivs
>
I agree 100%.

Will Turner
ASM Troop 182, Mid-Iowa Council
Eagle class of 1987


-- 
Will Turner,  N0RDV		 --------------------------------
wjturner@iastate.edu		| Whatever the mind can conceive |
twp77@isuvax.iastate.edu	| and believe, it can achieve.   |
TURNERW@vaxld.ameslab.gov	 --------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: lalibr@jec305.its.rpi.edu (Ron Scott Laliberte)
Subject: Re: Support for Boy Scouts
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 17:53:22 GMT

  Several people seem to think that the acceptance of Atheism in the BSA must
include the explusion of God from the organization.  I don't think this is
true.  All that is needed is a change in terminology from God to religion,
or beleifs.  I think that it is wonderful that many people have stated that
they learn about other religeons through scouting.  However, a religeon 
which does not include a deity is a valid choice.  Why should it be such a 
big problem to include it amongst the others?   
  its my beleif that all people should be able to worship in their own way,
and that people in general should be exposed to as many ways as possible,
so that they can make an educated choice about what religeon is right for them.
Scouting is, as has been stated numerous times, one of the few places that 
this is possible.  
  Anyway, my point is, no definitely don't "throw God out of scouting"  just 
be a litle more liberal about how you define your terms...
  In Leadership, Friendship & Service
Vivs

Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: kati@glnserv.UUCP (Lady Dragon)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: PLEASE MAKE A NEW NEWSGROUP
Date: 19 Jul 92 03:12:47 GMT
Organization: Vermi-net, Houston, Tx. 77098

hellmann@cs.scarolina.edu (Douglas R Hellmann) writes:
> While I don't like to listen to a bunch of people bitching about things
> all of the time, I do think there is reason for change.  I wonder
> how discussing these things promotes the "virtual exclusion of
> everything else"?  IMHO, it doesn't.  At least the group is being used
> by someone.
>
> Doug Hellmann
> hellmann@cs.scarolina.edu

It's quite possible that people are put off by the argueing (sp) and tend
to pass this section, rather than stay to exchange information.

* * email address: nuchat!xcluud!glnserv!kati * Houston, Texas, USA, Earth * *
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.motss,alt.atheism,ba.politics,ca.politics
From: slice@gagme.chi.il.us (Steve Steiner)
Subject: Re: never too late?
Originator: slice@gagme
Organization: Gagme Public Access UNIX, Chicago, Illinois.
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 14:37:02 GMT

In article <76504@ut-emx.uucp> jbloem@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu () writes:
>Hello there...
>I'm a 20 yr old college student who was once in the Boy Scouts..
>However, I never got past Tenderfoot before my family had to move away,
>and I never really had the chance to continue in the Scouts. (much to
>my present regret)  SO- I was wondering how I could get involved in 
>the Boy Scouts again; is there a similar organization for "older"
>folks such as myself? And if not, how can I become involved with
>other aspects of the Boy Scouts, such as becoming a Scout Master?
>Primarily, I am looking for something that will be fun and rewarding, 
>and I'm not adverse to bearing responsiblity for a troop.
>(I am, of course, assuming that positions such as Scout Master and 
>Assistant Scout Master includes some of the fun and not all of the 
>responsibility.. ?)
>Anyways, I would appreciate some input on this matter, and this seems a
>likely forum; you can either email me, or reply publically in case there
>are any other in-the-closet-Boy-Scout-wannabe's who are also interested.. :)
>
>Glen
>
>--
>sorry, no .sig; this is all done by hand (eek!)
>

My best suggestion to you is to locate the closest BSA District/Council
office and start your search for a Troop or Explorer post there.  They will
be able to help you find one of the above or even work at some district
position.

Good luck with your search

Steve Steiner
Asst. Weblos Leader Tigers Den
Pack 191, Chanonee District Dupage Area Council Illinois

-- 
Steve Steiner             Preferred address   | Telephone: (708)860-2754 (home)
slice@gagme.chi.il.us   slice@seswho.chi.il.us|            (708)773-5864 (work)
If the elevator to success is out of order... |   Address: 564 Gilbert Drive 
Use the stairs                                |            Wood Dale IL 60191
From: gascan@dcst16.dc (Bill Gascoyne)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Scoutmaster's Minute
Date: 24 Jul 92 19:58:30 GMT
Reply-To: gascan@dcst16.dc
Organization: LSI Logic Corporation

re: "I AM THIRD," the same title with the same explanation is the name of a book
about Brian Piccolo (as in "Brian's Song", Gayle Sayers, Chicago Bears).
---
1. Bill Gascoyne
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: ad980@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Paul S. Wolf)
Subject: Re: Eagle Scout Projects
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 16:38:56 GMT


Another great service project for Eagle candidates, which we have used,
is a project to Clean up an old cemetary, which has overgrown.

The best service is one where no thanks are necessary.  This is a
case where thanks can not be given, but is well deserved.

Paul Wolf, SM
TRoop 96
Greater Cleveland Council
From: rchafetz@cephalo.neusc.bcm.tmc.edu (Ross S. Chafetz)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Patrol names
Date: 22 Jul 1992 19:22:43 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Baylor College of Medicine, Houston,Tx


Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: wayne@eng.umd.edu (Wayne C. McCullough)
Subject: Re: Continuing Scouting in college
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 18:47:27 GMT
Organization: College of Engineering, University of Maryland, College Park


William A Dowling accidently sent this following message to me through
email, when he intended it to be sent to the newsgroup.  He has
asked me place it here.

Please send all replies to the correct person, and don't just
hit 'r'.

------
From dowling@hubcap.clemson.edu Thu Jul 30 13:15:37 1992
From: dowling@hubcap.clemson.edu (william a dowling)
To: wayne@eng.umd.edu
Subject: Re: Continuing Scouting in college
Newsgroups: rec.scouting

In rec.scouting you write:
>I did look at APO when I got into college, and It seemed to me that
>they have driffted quite far from the scouting I was used to.  The
>local chapter (in college park) struck me as a social organizeation
>more than anything else.  I am sure they did service, more than the
>minimum, but in bulk, they were more concerned about the soical
>aspects.

>They also seemed to be very political (as in internal chapter politics,
>not anyone elses), and I just can't stand that.  They did not seem to 
>be the least bit interested in outdoorsmanship.

>All that, and the $80 anual membership, I chose to stay away.

That's too bad.  For you and the chapter.  To others following this
disscssion please take into account that across the country we (APO)
have a wide variety of chapters. Some more service orentied than others,
and some more Scouting oriented than others.  Also APO is not for everyone,
all we can ask is that you consider the great experiance that I and others
like me have had with APO. Our purpose is a very nobel one, and there is
nothing that says that we can't be as social as the next guy !:*)

Gamma Lambda

-------------
W

Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.motss,alt.atheism,ba.politics,ca.politics
From: condon@cadence.com (Bob Condon; x6303)
Subject: Re: Support for Boy Scouts
Organization: Cadence Design Systems, Lowell MA
	<57JXNB10w165w@batpad.lgb.ca.us> <1992Jul20.212755.28174@unlinfo.unl.edu>
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1992 05:43:27 GMT

If you are going to cross post to rec.scouting,m could you please
relate it to scouting?

Thanks in advance,

Bob Condon 
--
 Bob Condon                           condon@cadence.com
 Cadence Design Systems               (508) 934-0303
 2 Lowell Research Center Drive
 Lowell, Mass. 01852-4995
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.motss,alt.atheism,ba.politics,ca.politics