From: cl056@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Hamaza H. Salah)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Re: Hamas
Date: 1 Jan 1993 03:46:07 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: cl056@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Hamaza H. Salah)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu



ahmad@ra.cs.umb.edu (Ahmad Hashem) writes:

>In article <1hi55qINNiv4@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> cl056@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Hamaza H. Salah) writes:
>>
>>>Who is to decide that such and such applies when Muslims are in power, and 
>>>such and such when they are oppressed?
>>
>>Sometimes things are so clear where people can judge if it is night or
>>day, or if it is sun or moon.  By the same token, it is easy to tell 
>>whether muslims in power or not.

>Of course, I was not saying that Muslims are in power.  They are not.
>I was asking about what applies when Muslims are not in power.  The basic
>rules of justice should still be in effect.  Hamas violates this.

Where in quran or in hadith hamas violates the basic rules of justice. 
I quoted you verses, but who learns?

>>"Be patient" is not a silly matter.  The Prophet of Islam(pbuh) told that 
>>"sabran 'al yasser, in maoedakom al janah." in the early days of Islam 
>>were muslims were few and where islam had no power.  But did that allow the
>>prophet to make a comprmise with unbelievers for peace? 

>Then what do you say about SulH al-Hudaibiiah?  Didn't the prophet of Islam
>(pbuh) compromise for peace?

Was there a balance in power b/w muslims and unbleivers at that time or not?
That's why I said from the first place, " in the early days of Islam where 
muslms were few and where islam had no power."

Muslims were very powerful when they made Sulh Al Hodibiah.  The balance
was there.

Plus and most importantly, Sulh Al Hodibiah was for a specific period.
Understand "specific period" only 10 years, not for ever. 

Do the peace negotiations discuss making treaties for a specific period, 
and is there a balance b/w jews and palestinians?  Did Sulh Al Hodibiah
forbid muslims from returning to Macca?  Did it give only the permission
for the Qurishes to be armed but not muslims? 

>>Abou Taleb used to come to the Prophet and tell 
>>him we will make you the governor of Quraish
>>and grant you full authority if you stop your preaching.  He did not agree 
>>despite the fact he and his followers were opressed.

>This is irrelevant here.  Quraish was virtually asking the prophet to 
>give up Islam, not to make peace with them.  When they asked for peace
>he did agree.

See my previous paragraph.  Under what conditions muslims ought to make
peace?  To true muslims giving up the first prayer dierction place and third
sacred place is like giving up islam.

[....]
other sarcastic and silly answers were deleted.

>>Is peace a temporary solution
>>and a first step towards the liberation of Palestine?  If this is the case, 
>>tell it to us and see if your jewish friend Ron appreciates it... It simply
>>is not going to work.

>You know very well, or I hope you do, that Muslims do not sign a (peace)
>treaty if they do not intend to keep it from their part.  I do not advocate
>the step-by-step policy.

First, muslims in the past proved that they made treaties only for
specific period of time.  Your example of Sulh Al Hudibiah is one of them.
So, your statement above is totally wrong about muslims.

Second. You have proved treaties to made are for ever.
And that is the big differnce b/w peace treaties of today and 
Sulh Al Hudibiah..

>>I didn't say Malcom X is a scholar of islam.  But he is a one that 
>>tells a tooth for a tooth, an eye for an eye, and soul for a soul, which
>>all you fail to see how it can be applicable.

>If a hispanic person causes my tooth to be broken, am I justified in breaking
>the tooth of any other hispanic?

It depends on how he causes it to break.  If he punches you on the face,
and caused it to break.  Don't do Qisas, go and kiss him on the cheek
and tell him thank you.

If he does it by an accident, now it is islamic to "amend and forgive."

>  I accept fully the Quranic principle 
>of Qisas, but not its blind application by angry people who, due to their 
>being subject to grave injustice by Israelis, do not stick to the true
>principles of justice advocated by Islam.

What are these islamic principles of justice you are advodcating? 
Go and look how you proved otherwise.  You kept escaping and ignoring
all quranic verses i quote you.

>Best Ahmad
-- 
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