HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sodonnell@UMASSD.EDU
Subject: spirit in the light?
Reply-To: sodonnell@UMASSD.EDU
Organization: UMASS DARTMOUTH, NO. DARTMOUTH, MA.
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 22:38:26 GMT

SINCE I JUST STARTED READING THE NEWS GROUP, I DON"T HAVE ACCESS TO 
"SPIRIT IN THE LIGHT IF KRI" COULD SOMEONE SEND ME A COPY ? from what 
I"VE READ IN THE REPLYS MR. TROY SOUNDS LIKE HE"S GOT IT ALL TOGETHER.
I DON"T UNDERSTAND WHY ANYONE COULD HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE SUPREME
COMMANDMENT "LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD(WHOEVER YOU PERCEIVE HIM/HER TO
BE) WITH ALL YOUR MIGHT AND TREAT YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOU WOULD BE
TREATED YOURSELF (BROTHERLY LOVE). USE THIS AS YOUR BASE FOR WHATEVER
BELIEF/RELIGION YOU CHOOSE TO FOLLOW. I BELEIVE ALL RELIGIONS HAVE
THEIR TRUTHS. IN MY SEARCH FOR GOD I FOUND I TOOK A LITTLE BIT FROM 
MANY DIFFERENT RELIGIONS AND DISCARDED THAT WHICH I FOUND DISTRUBING.
I HAD A SPIRITUAL EXPERIENCE A FEW YEARS AGO AND SINCE THEN I READ
EVERYTHING I COULD GET MY HANDS ON CONCERNING GOD. I"VE SETTLED ON
I DON"T KNOW TO CALL IT...CHRISTIAN..BECAUSE I BELIEVE THE CHRIST
WAS BORN TO SHOW ME THE WAY, BY HIS LEADING THE PERFECT LIFE I TOO
AM CAPABLE OF LEADING THIS LIFE (you know, turn the other cheek,love
love love) I DON"T MEAN TO TRIVIALIZE. I"M JUST TRYING TO GET THE 
MESSAGE ACROSS.
I ALSO BELEIVE IN REINCARNATION THOUGH NOT THE HINDU BELEIF THAT
WE CAN BE BORN AGAIN IN ANIMAL/PLANT FORM. REINCARNATION ANSWERED
THE QUESTION OF WHY THERE ARE SO MANY SUFFERING. KARMA IS THE ONLY
EXPLAINATION. I ALSO BELIEVE MEDITATION IS A GATE WAY TO AHH..
HANGING WITH GOD. SO WHAT IS MY RELIGION YOU MAY ASK. I GUESS ITS
WHAT ONE WOULD CALL NEW AGE. THOUGH I DO ATTEND METHODIST SERVICE
ONCE OR TWICE A MONTH, AGAIN I TAKE WHAT I NEED FROM THE SERVICE
AND DISCARD THE REST, LIKE HYMNS.
TO THE PERSON WHO DIDN"T LIKE THE IDEA OF GOD BEING A SUPREME BEING
I THINK PERHAPS YOU NEVER FELT THE PRESENCE OF THE CREATOR. IF YOU
HAD YOU WOULD NEVER EVER DOUBT THAT THERE WAS SOMETHING SO MUCH
GREATER THAN YOU. WORDS USUALLY FAIL ME HERE BUT HERE GOES.....
WHEN I LOOK AT A DIAMOND IT REMINDS ME OF GOD, LIKE A LARGE DIAMOND
FILLED, OVERFLOWING, EMANATING LOVE. THE FEELING IS SIMILIAR TO
BEING IN LOVE WITH SOMEONE, ONLY GREATER. IT IS EVEN MORE SIMILIAR
TO THE LOVE I HAVE FOR MY CHILDREN, ONLY GREATER. IT IS THE ULTIMATE
LOVE. IT IS MORE OF A FEELING THAN I CAN ADEQUATELY DESCRIBE.
SO I GUESS WORDS STILL FAIL ME. ITS REALLY A PERSONAL THING AND
I HAVEN"T HAD MUCH PRACTICE EXPLAINING IT.
ANYWAY I"VE SETTLED ON BEING A MEMBER OF THE A.R.E. AND I HAVE BEEN
A MEMBER FOR FOUR YEARS NOW. OH IT STANDS FOR THE ASSOCIATION OF
RESEARCH AND ENLIGHTENMENT. IT CENTERS ON THE EDGAR CAYCE READINGS.
IN MY OPINION THE EDGAR CAYCE READINGS HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS TO ALL
OF THE QUESTIONS I"VE HAD CONCERNING GOD. THIS IS WHERE I FOUND
THE EXPLAINATION OF THE SUPREME COMMAMDMENT. WELL I"VE GOT TO GO.
..........SANDY IN MASSACHUSETTS.
From: Tarzan
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness
Subject: Re: Spirit in the light of Kriya
Date: 6 Nov 92 19:59:48 GMT
Organization: Bell-Northern Research

In article <Bx54np.4A2@midget.yps.saar.de> bof@midget.saar.de (Patrick Schaaf)
writes:
...>
>Hail Eris!      Huh?
>
>-- 
>Patrick Schaaf          /   \      Most people on Usenet are not
>Saarbruecken         .^/ -.- \      a member of your ethnic group.
>                    / /       \
>- Ask the FORUM list or misc.jobs.offered for the 23 questions purity test -
>

What?
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness
From: don@ohm.york.ac.uk (Don Goodeve)
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness
Subject: Re: Biofeedback for meditation training...
Date: 13 Nov 92 12:25:40 GMT
Organization: Electronics Department, University of York, UK

>:Lorenzo Farris (farris@ruhets.rutgers.edu) wrote:

>to learn to dance. You told them "Just let go and flow with the
>music." That's all fine and dandy, unless of course you are like me
>and are a stiff, repressed, rhythmless American white boy, and such
>instructions are absolutely useless to me, and make me even more
>self-conscious. I need to be taught some dance steps first. Then,
>after a while that I have done my stiff, graceless dancing, I develop
>a sense of rhythm and a loss of self-consciousness. That's when I
>really start to have fun. :-)

Learning to dance. A guide...

The best book that I have found on meditation practice (I am sure
that I have posted this ref. before) is

A Gradual Awakening - Stephen Levine

I know it is still in print in the states. Here in Europe, getting
hold of it takes a little more organisation.

Cheers
	Don

 -------------------------------------------------
|Don Goodeve		email: don@uk.ac.york.ohm |
|Adaptive Systems       tel : (+44) 904 432381    |
|Electronics Dept.      fax : (+44) 904 432335    |
|University of York  -----------------------------    
|UK                 | Give it to the Softboys....
 -------------------  
If only life were in an open D tuning...

-- 
 ---------------------------------------------
| Don --- Well why not? Someone has got to be!|
 ---------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness
From: mw%ki.fht-mannheim.de (Marc Wachowitz)
Subject: Re: Biofeedback for meditation training...
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 17:44:16 GMT
Organization: Fachhochschule fuer Technik Mannheim
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

Lorenzo Farris (farris@ruhets.rutgers.edu) wrote:
: A meditative state, as I define it (I'm sure someone will come along
: and tell me no it isn't so. :-)
*Grin*

[We've just discussed meditation in alt.meditation.transcendental (med. in
 general, none of us appears to have anything to do with TM)]

:, is characterized by a high degree of
: focus. If that means anything to you. In the case of the meditation I
: practice, it is characterized by an absence of extraneous thought as
: well. But, fundamentally, it's got a certain feeling to it, and I
: can't really communicate that.

Of course it's a bit pointless to argue "what meditation really is" - let's
remember that we are just trying to set up words to communicate about
experience. Words don't have meanings by themselves, and conventions are hardly
found in this realm (yes, some traditions have them, but that's quite useless
unless you follow their kind of practice - there's an extraordinary variety of
possible experiences).


With that understanding as a prerequisite:

Meditation is a fresh awareness without a center, without an "observer" who
observes "something else" (and it's not being absorbed by thinking etc).

A problem of descriptions (besides not being "the real thing", which already
makes it difficult enough) is that usually our words are dualistic - even
saying meditation is non-dualistic is problematic.

Some have described as dream-like but very awake - perhaps not too bad, when
you understand that it has really nothing at all to do with being sleepy or
some fuzzy feeling.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Marc Wachowitz, mw@ki.fht-mannheim.de   /  news zombie - reply by e-mail, too
  *  wonder everyday    *    nothing in particular    *    all is special  *
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness
From: trp@gtech.com (Tom R. Peterson (consultant))
Subject: Meditation and Software Development
Organization: GTECH Corporation, West Greenwich, RI
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 17:08:23 GMT

Has anyone given much thought to the relationship between meditation
and focused creative processes like software development:
 - Why would it be foolish to consider such activities to be
   a substititution for meditation?
 - Should a person meditate more when a burst of such things are
   being done, or less, or is there a relationship?
 - Suzuki (Zen Mind, Beginners Mind) suggested that Westerners will
   need to find thier own way.  Is the relationship between 
   conciousness exercises and focused work activity a primary issue, 
   or is it a trap to even make this association between meditation
   and the goal of improved productivity & creativity?
I don't know much about all this, but have pondered the balance a bit...
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness
From: malcolm@wrs.com (Malcolm Humes)
Subject: Re: Entrainment and Meditation
Organization: Wind River Systems, Inc.
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 20:52:11 GMT

Someone reading this group replied to me privately:
> Thanks for your communication.
> I am interested in hearing about your experiences.
> Nobody seems to want to post anything.
> Do people think that saying you have used these things is like saying that 
> you smoke or take acid??
> 
> Cheers,
> Mark

Hi Mark. 

I get the impression that there's a high degree of skepticism - I'll admit
to being a bit of a skeptic myself. The latest Tools For Exploration catalog 
has some of the hokiest shit I've ever seen, but that doesn't mean that some
or all of the devices might not be useful. The way I look at it, even if
it's a placebo effect causing me to relax or enjoy myself, so what? If I get
any effect it's worth it to me. I've certainly had some interesting 
experiences with my mind machine and I feel it was a worthwhile investment.

I think it's largely the forum, and partly that using words to describe
experiences is not always an easy thing when dealing with the abstract. 
alt.consciousness seems to have an odd mix of folks into meditation, drugs
and religion and it seems like there are those who would prefer to see their
own path as the only way instead of listening with an open mind and seeing the
similarities in our ideas and experiences. I think we're often all talking 
about the same things but using different tools. It's interesting to me to 
see a few people talking about entrainment and making assumptions based
on limited knowledge and experience, and when more details and info are 
offered it appears everyone stops talking about it or just posts stupid
followups that are irrelevant and probably intended to stifle further
communication.

To those who would put it down, have you tried any entrainment devices? At 
this moment I don't feel like going into great detail in my experiences for 
lack of time, but I'll happily try to answer any specific questions. 

 - Malcolm  
 
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness
From: ken@advtech.uswest.com (Kenny Chaffin)
Subject: Animal Minds
Keywords: Animal consciousness 
Organization: U S WEST Advanced Technologies
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1992 21:50:01 GMT

Has anyone read _Animal Minds_ by Donald R. Griffin? If so what are your
thoughts/opinions. I haven't read it, but saw a review in Science this week 
10/30/92.

KAC

Opinions? Can anyone actually _have_ opinions or are they no more 
than dust motes floating in the sunlight of collective intellect.

Kenny A. Chaffin                      {...boulder}!uswat!ken
U S WEST Advanced Technologies         ken@dakota.uswest.com
4001 Discovery Drive  Boulder, CO 80303	     (303) 541-6355
From: bennett@deepthought.unm.edu (Paul Bennett)
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness
Subject: views of consciousness
Keywords: Eastern vs Western also
Date: 7 Nov 92 23:21:18 GMT
Distribution: alt.consciousness
Organization: Dept. of Math & Stat, University of New Mexico, Albuquerque


      In the recent discussion about methods of approach to the question of
consciousness, I became aware belatedly that there are at least two differing
notions of the origin of consciousness, or of causality, if you will.

      One of these holds I think that the consciousness of a human being
arises from molecular ineractions in the cells that make up the brain. In
such a view, I think there is little reason and justification for the
existence of a soul, and that when one dies, that is it. There is no more
existence.

      The other view holds that consciousness arises out of the presence of
a soul which has taken on a physical body temporarily. In this case, 
consciousness is seen as more spiritual, as opposed to physical. Accordingly,
when one dies, one's existence is not terminated, but continues, though
changed perhaps. It is a weakness of this view that the existence of a soul
is required. This is a question people have been discussing for as long as
anyone knows, going WAY back. As far as I know, no-one knows the answer, or
if they do, they're not saying. (Of course, it could be the sort of thing
that one COULDN'T describe once known.)

       I myself tend to the second view of things, and my posts reflect this.
I understand that there are people who read this group that like the first.
There are probably other people who don't like either, and still others who
fall somwhere in between. It is not my intent to offend anybody. I will continue
to post my ideas, as this is a (relatively) free forum.

       Just my two cents.
* Paul Bennett                   There is always a greater truth.
* bennett@gauss.unm.edu          "Live now. Death is inevitable."-Anonymous
* These are my opinions, and not those of Dept.
From: john@gis.uwa.oz.au (John Saward)
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness
Subject: Re: Dharma
Date: 13 Nov 1992 02:49:14 GMT
Organization: The University of Western Australia
NNTP-Posting-Host: leela.gis.uwa.edu.au

Tarzan writes:

>In article <1992Oct28.163807.2023@NeoSoft.com> georgel@NeoSoft.com (George
>Livsey) writes:
>>
>>It is the Dharma of Fire to burn and the Dharma of thirst to be quen
>>quenched. What then is the Dharma of man?
>>
>>-- 
>>georgel@NeoSoft.com   |                                                
>>George Livsey         |            Visualize Whirrled Peas!            
>>Net's Worth           |                                                
>>(713) 944-0057
>>

>The Dharma of man is to celebrate life, to grow, to learn, and to laugh.
>        (and most of all.........to learn to Love)




The Dharma of man is to search for, and discover, his (/her) own Dharma


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
|    "Life is complex.  It has real and imaginary parts." -- Vijay Anand  |
|	John Saward,							  |
|	Computer Systems Manager	Dept. of Geography 	  	  |
|	john@gis.uwa.oz.au		University of Western Australia   |
|	Voice: +61 9 380 3808		Nedlands 6009 W.A.		  |
|	FAX:   +61 9 380 1054		AUSTRALIA			  |
|             "A witty saying proves nothing." -- Voltaire                |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness
From: Jeremy Matz <jam3@cornell.edu>
Subject: Meditation Device: IM-1
X-Xxdate: Sat, 7 Nov 92 11: 52:37 GMT
Nntp-Posting-User: jam3@cornell.edu
Organization: Cornell University
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d7
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 17:47:48 GMT
From: farris@ruhets.rutgers.edu (Lorenzo Farris)
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness
Subject: Re: Biofeedback for meditation training...
Date: 11 Nov 92 22:38:50 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

In article <pncq-mw_@aix01.rz.fht-mannheim.de>, mw%ki.fht-mannheim.de (Marc Wachowitz) writes:
:Lorenzo Farris (farris@ruhets.rutgers.edu) wrote:
:: A meditative state, as I define it (I'm sure someone will come along
:: and tell me no it isn't so. :-)
:
:Meditation is a fresh awareness without a center, without an "observer" who
:observes "something else" (and it's not being absorbed by thinking etc).
:

Aah. This is the most concrete description you have given of
meditation so far. Most of what I have called meditation is how I try
to get there.

Now, an appropriate metaphor comes to mind for how I regarded your
post about how to get into meditation. It is as though someone wanted
to learn to dance. You told them "Just let go and flow with the
music." That's all fine and dandy, unless of course you are like me
and are a stiff, repressed, rhythmless American white boy, and such
instructions are absolutely useless to me, and make me even more
self-conscious. I need to be taught some dance steps first. Then,
after a while that I have done my stiff, graceless dancing, I develop
a sense of rhythm and a loss of self-consciousness. That's when I
really start to have fun. :-)

			Stiffly yours,
				Lorenzo
-- 
"Once upon a time men were possessed    ******************************
by devils. Now they are not less        *  Lorenzo Farris            *
obsessed by ideas" -CG Jung             *  farris@ruhets.rutgers.edu *
					******************************
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness
From: usenet@adobe.com (USENET NEWS)
Subject: Re: views of consciousness
Originator: asanders@sparta
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 22:08:58 GMT

| ...there are at least two differing notions of the origin of 
| consciousness... One of these holds I think that the consciousness
| of a human being arises from molecular interactions in the cells 
| that make up the brain. In such a view, I think there is little 
| reason and justification for the existence of a soul, and that 
| when one dies, that is it...
|
| The other view holds that consciousness arises out of the presence 
| of a soul which has taken on a physical body temporarily. In this 
| case, consciousness is seen as more spiritual, as opposed to physical. 
| Accordingly, when one dies, one's existence is not terminated, but 
| continues, though changed perhaps. It is a weakness of this view that 
| the existence of a soul is required. 

		-quoted by John Sparks [original author not named]

I agree with the original writer that consciousness is (from our
duality-bound perspective, at least) either spiritual or material;
but I agree with John that the positions stated above are only two
possible viewpoints out of many.

We DON'T KNOW whether man has a soul; nor, if he does, whether that
soul is immortal. We DO know that *consciousness* exists in human beings,
but "consciousness" is not *one* thing. As Gurdjieff said, "Consciousness
has degrees." We know very well from our experience that we are much more 
"aware" at certain times than at others, and that moments of intense 
awareness come when they will (and none too often!). But if consciousness
has degrees, then OUR consciousness can be *increased*. This idea forms
the basis for most forms of spiritual practice, one way or the other.
Gurdjieff said, in so many words: we cannot answer the great questions;
we can only become more conscious, and hope that--if we succeed--we may
be capable of understanding more than we can comprehend now.

So, I don't know where consciousness comes from. But I know that
consciousness exists. I know that I have some, and that it is possible
to get more. And I know that adding even a little *extra* consciousness 
changes everything.
			-Alan


Newsgroups: alt.consciousness
From: malcolm@wrs.com (Malcolm Humes)
Subject: Re: Tim Sheridan & Entrainment and Meditation
Followup-To: alt.flame
Organization: Wind River Systems, Inc.
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 20:41:04 GMT

sparky@wixer.cactus.org (Timothy Sheridan) writes:

>If you can't tell the difference then why do you care?
>Try lithium....
...
>Well if you loose moter controle when you do this I assume you are relaxing a
>bit too much for regular functioning.  Dont do this in trafic.
>Do you fall down when you relax without the machine?
>What is keeping you from beibg relaxed normaly?

>Enquireing minds want to know...

Tim, are you forgetting to add smileys, or has the lithium warped your mind 
and destroyed your motor coordination and ability to type and spell? :^) 

Usually I shy away from blunt flames, but looking at the three replies you've
posted in this group lately they all appear to be worthless insults posted
as responses to serious questions and posts about experiences. Got a problem?
Want a problem? If you're really as uninterested in the threads as you 
appear to be I for one would appreciate it if you'd save your comments unless
you can think of something meaningful or relevant to post instead of just
trying to step on conversations of interest to others. If all you want to
do is flame folks there's a nice group of friendly folks just waiting over
in alt.flame, you can drop in and say hello to them sometime...  

 - Malcolm  
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness
From: ron_s@verifone.com
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness,alt.paranormal,talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: Spirit DIR/ALLin the light of Kriya
Date: 10 Nov 92 16:19:06 -1000
Organization: VeriFone Inc., Honolulu HI

n article <serb.85@polisci.umn.edu>, serb@polisci.umn.edu (Scott Erb) writes:
> In article <1992Nov1.004417.21341@ncsu.edu> jthigh@eos.ncsu.edu (JAMES TROY HIGH) writes:
> 
> 
>>Most people are sick with the hypocrisy and with the legalism of religion!
>>If you are sick of this, then follow the truth and lead others to it by your
>>own example.  And don't attack religion and its doctrines it serves a valuable
>>purpose.
> 
> I agree up until the last sentence.  I think religions and its doctrines 
> tend to detract from the truth, since they say what truth is, rather than 
> letting us define it ourselves.
>  
>>If you obey the supreme commandement, Love the Lord thy God with 
>>all thy Heart>and Love thy Neighbor as Thyself, then all these details will 
>>be taken care of!
> 

  The gentleman above who says "..religions and its doctrines tend to
        detract from the truth, since they say what truth is..." 
  has wisdom.  The purveyor of Biblical Christianity and derivative
  dogmas is completely wrong.  Do you know why it is so hard to
   Love the Lord with all your heart? - It is like giving all your
   love to a stone -- but one that is invisible and one that is,moreover,
   likely to ultimately fall on your head as not.

   Love yourself first, and seek to understand your own ticking heart.
You cannot possibly love somebody else unless you love learn to
love yourself first. If you do not do this, you will love another
falsely - and try in many many ways to find the missing self love in
loving them.  But that is another subject.  

    Anyway, Christianity has done more to set back the human race
than any war or disease or plague and that is a fact. Just pickup
any history book and read about the Spanish inquisition, the dark
ages, the crusades, and on and on. We would have had the airplane
and the microcomputer invented in Greco-Roman times if not for
Christianity.

     There is "esoteric christianity" more or less taught by
G I Gurdjieff, and byr Ouspensky - see such books as "All and
Everything" - by Gurdjieff , and "In Search of the Miraculous"
   by Ouspensky.  for rather in depth illustrations of what is
involved.  This has nothing to do with organized religion, but everything
to do with the possibilities for a man's conscious evolution
while here on earth.   My scorn is reserved for any and all
dogmatic religions who all say they have the power to "bring their
god to me" -- if I just toe the line and act like a good christio 
christian -- it is bogus e
      unending troll spit...
aloha
From: Tarzan
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness
Subject: Re: Dharma
Date: 6 Nov 92 20:06:55 GMT
Organization: Bell-Northern Research

In article <1992Oct28.163807.2023@NeoSoft.com> georgel@NeoSoft.com (George
Livsey) writes:
>
>It is the Dharma of Fire to burn and the Dharma of thirst to be quen
>quenched. What then is the Dharma of man?
>
>-- 
>georgel@NeoSoft.com   |                                                
>George Livsey         |            Visualize Whirrled Peas!            
>Net's Worth           |                                                
>(713) 944-0057
>

The Dharma of man is to celebrate life, to grow, to learn, and to laugh.
        (and most of all.........to learn to Love)
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness
From: jjj@mits.mdata.fi (Joni Jarvenkyla)
Subject: Re: Parapsychology: The Unconventional Science
Organization: Microdata Oy, Helsinki, Finland
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 01:12:51 GMT

In article <1992Nov1.085040.1390@leela.cs.orst.edu> jeremy@atlantis.CS.ORST.EDU ((-| Jeremy |-) Smith) writes:
>   Has anyone read Richard Broughton's Parapsychology; The Controversial
>Science?

If this field interests you, you might want to read

	The basic experiments in parapsychology
		by Sri Ramakrishna Rao

--
jjj@mits.mdata.fi | PGP2.0 key available | PGP 2.0 avain saatavilla
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness