HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: athos@apple.com (Rick Eames)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: *** Spoiler *** Comments on "Chain of Command Part II"
Date: 26 Dec 92 19:19:37 GMT
Followup-To: rec.arts.startrek.current
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.

In article <1992Dec26.160341.22400@eng.umd.edu>, wombat@eng.umd.edu (Jose
Gonzalez) wrote:

> Wow.  We *finally* have an instance where part II of a two-parter is better
> than part one.  Boy, was this great.

Agreed.
 
> - I was thouroughly impressed with the Captain Jellico aspect  
> of the story.  I found that I liked Jellico at the *end*, but not *during*
> the episodes.  Troi was right, though, he wasn't sure of himself.  Control-
> freaks never are.  To compensate for his feelings of inferiority, as Riker
> said, he had to control "everything and everyone."  *This* is why he
> changed the watch-rotations, not because it was necessarily the wisest thing
> to do, but because he wanted things *his* way.  This is why he made changes
> that weren't necessary.  Very, very well done character.  If the rumors that
> Stewart are leaving after this season are true, I would not mind at *all* if the
> rumor that Ronny Cox would replace him is true as well.  Yes, he would be
> very different form Picard, but he has a long way to go, character-wise, and
> that would be very interesting to watch. 

It was never shown that it *wasn't* needed either.  I think that Jellico's
job was to ensure a victory and to do that he needed the ship to work as he
was used to.  Remember, he didn't have time to get touchy-feely with the
crew.
 
> - The Riker-Jellico clashes were the second-best parts of the episode, behind
> Madred-Picard.  There was a very realistic feel to the fact that it wasn't
> necessarily Jellico's orders that pissed off Riker, it was the way he gave them.
> The final clash between Jellico and Riker in Riker's quarters really had
> a lot of energy.  Jellico had gone into there, hoping that after he mentioned
> the plan, Riker would volunteer for the mission.  The fact that things
> didn't go exactly as planned, and that he had to *ask* Riker, really took
> Jellico down a peg or two.  *Everyone* I saw this with was cheering after
> Riker's "You're welcome."  About time Riker finally got his due.

Interesting.  The 5 people I watched it with are all Riker fans but really
thought Riker was a big ***hole in this episode.  I was shocked at Riker. 
If I were the Captain I would have recommended court-martial for
insubordination.  Especially when Riker himself had made similar decisions
in Best of Both Worlds when HE was Captain.  Very strange.

******************************************************************************
Rick Eames                               My Opinions Are My Own (not
Apple's)
athos@apple.com
Don't blame me, I didn't vote for Boxer.
******************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: ssubrama@dante.nmsu.edu (SUBRAMANIAM)
Subject: Premiere of DSN
Organization: New Mexico State University, Las Cruces, NM
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 21:26:12 GMT

Is the series premiere for DSN going to be 2 hour long or a normal one hour
long.  Please reply by email.  Thanks in advance.

Siva
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: rwmech@uumeme.chi.il.us (Robert W. Mech)
Subject: Re: Ah HA! (Or why do federation phasers always hit their target)
Organization: UUMEME Public Access Xenix
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 92 12:39:04 GMT

In article <1992Dec22.194532.22272@hubcap.clemson.edu> hubcap@hubcap.clemson.edu (System Janitor) writes:
>jblackwo@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (J P Blackwood) writes:
>
>>Wouldn't you think that a phaser could shine a nice bright red dot on its
>>target? Who could miss? (don't give me any of this moving target . phaser beams
>>go at light speed and a finger can move a millimeter faster than any target
>>I've seen can dodge.)
>
>Heck, if phasers were real, the problem would be hitting *only* what you 
>wanted to. A broad sweep of your arm and everything in a 180 degree arc
>in front of you would be cut in two.
>

What would be so bad about that?


-- 
:*: rwmech@uumeme.chi.il.us | Owner/Adminstrator UUMEME Public Access Xenix :*:
HCI: A group of paternalists who believe that banning the LEGAL ownership
     of firearms will somehow eliminate the ILLEGAL use of said firearms.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: dpe@inel.gov (Don Palmrose)
Subject: Re: RIKER: What a Class A Jerk
Organization: INEL EG&G Idaho
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 92 15:04:45 GMT

In article <athos-241292000711@kip2-14.apple.com>, athos@apple.com (Rick Eames) writes:
> 
> I could not believe what I was seeing the writers do to poor Riker.  He was
> nothing short of an insubordinate jerk in this episode.

[points on the Riker-Jellico exchanges edited out because I agree]
 
> I don't know WHAT they were thinking, but the writers were really
> shortchanging Riker here.  
> 
> And, after all of it, Jellico was 100% right about everything he did. 
> Every guess was correct.  How he handled the Cardassians was correct.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> ******************************************************************************
> Rick Eames                               My Opinions Are My Own (not
> Apple's)
> athos@apple.com
> Don't blame me, I didn't vote for Boxer.
> ******************************************************************************
> 
> 

What the writers also overlooked was that most people in a highly structured
organization such as the military, or in this case StarFleet, have seen the
type of personalities that Jellico and Picard have and how it affects their
leadership abilities.  Thus Riker should have quickly realized that under
Jellico things would be alot tighter especially in the area of feedback to
the Captain's orders. 

So I agree that they overplayed the Riker-Jellico conflict to save Picard.
It would have been alot better if at the end there was some sort of appology
from Riker to Jellico at least about saving Picard.  In the past, I think
that Riker has admitted to making an error in judgement.

Don Palmrose



========== long legal disclaimer follows, press n to skip ===========

Neither the United States Government or the Idaho National Engineering
Laboratory or any of their employees, makes any warranty, whatsoever,
implied, or assumes any legal liability or responsibility regarding any
information, disclosed, or represents that its use would not infringe
privately owned rights.  No specific reference constitutes or implies
endorsement, recommendation, or favoring by the United States
Government or the Idaho National Engineering Laboratory.  The views and
opinions expressed herein do not necessarily reflect those of the
United States Government or the Idaho National Engineering Laboratory,
and shall not be used for advertising or product endorsement purposes.
From: brown@vidiot.UUCP (Vidiot)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: DS9 or DSN?
Date: 2 Jan 93 03:35:52 GMT
Reply-To: brown@vidiot.UUCP (Vidiot)
Organization: Vidiot's Hangout

In article <dust.725915040@manning> dust@cs.UAlberta.CA (Dust Jason Norman) writes:
<
<	I don't know if this has been mentioned before but the ST:TNG
<COMPANION shows Deep Space Nine abbreviated as "DS9" on page 207.

I don't know about your copy of the book, but mine has the abbreviation on
page 208.
-- 
      harvard\                          spool.cs.wisc.edu!astroatc!vidiot!brown
Vidiot  ucbvax!uwvax..........!astroatc!vidiot!brown
      rutgers/            INTERNET:vidiot!brown%astroatc.UUCP@spool.cs.wisc.edu
                                   brown@wi.extrel.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: "bernie wong" <bernie.wong@canrem.com>
Subject: data watch
Reply-To: "bernie wong" <bernie.wong@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: rec
Date: 31 Dec 92 16:03:49 EST

 -=> William Herndon babbled to All and look what he said! <=-

 WH>    Red:    Command
 WH> 	Gold:	Support
 WH> 	Blue:	Medical

That looks about right except I think Blue is Sciences.


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Jason Wong
Calling from Markham, Ontario CANADA.  It's not cold though!  :-)
INTERNET E-MAIL: bernie.wong@canrem.com


... Horn busted! Watch for finger........
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: kpapai@rahul.net (Ken Papai)
Subject: Re: Saturday Night Review - "Chain of Command Part II" SPOILERS!
Organization: a2i network
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 20:23:47 GMT

ph9991_manfr@rivers.acc.uwrf.edu writes:
>I've got to say this again even though this is just repitition myself now:
>This episode went absolutely nowhere!  Nowhere at all!  

>That's about it folks.  There is no interesting story here, or at least no
>story big enough to fill two episodes.  This certainly had no business being
>a two-part story, and should have been one episode that we could be over with
>in one week and forgotten about so we could get on with some exploring of
>the galaxy and some science fiction again. 

>Right.  General tirade over (something I am unaccustomed to doing with TNG),
>let's get to specifics:

>Acting:  Stewart was impeccable, of course, and he had indeed better get an
>Emmy nomination for it.  David Warner did well again, as did everyone in
>the cast, like Cox and Frakes.  No complaints here.  


> ...fiction series come to that, this sucked wind, because it had no story of
>its own to tell and no science fiction in what it did do.  

>Overall Grade for Part Two (scale of one to ten): 3
>Amended Grade for Part One (scale of one to ten): 1 (there is now even less
>point to Part One since it set up a useless Part Two)

>Steven.K.Manfred
>(disappointed that he had to give his worst grades yet to this episode,
>and who still likes the rest of the season so far except for "Time's Arrow")

No science fiction in COC Parts I & II ?!!
Give me a break.  At LEAST this episode didn't have so many of the
fantasy elements in it that about 50% of the TNG episodes have.
I can hardly understand where you get your ratings from.  No way they
can be that low, but I understand it's your opinion.  I haven't seen
anyone else who denigrate this episode even closely approximating your
putdown.  At least you wrote cogently and with some detailed impressions.
I do not see anywhere where this episode actually leads up to DS9.
Don't remember the wormhole or the space station having anything to do with
COC I & II.  Anyone else get that?
-- 
Ken Papai <kpapai@rahul.net>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: abilenko@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Arkady Bilenko)
Subject: What is "Space Rangers?"
Organization: The Ohio State University
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 04:49:35 GMT


	Dear netters,
our local CBS affiliate is advertising a movie/show "The Space Rangers" that
will premiere/be shown sometime in the beginning of January.  Is this a new
science fiction show or just a movie that had already been shown before 1989
(when I came to the US)?  Also, does anyone know if any of the stations in
Columbus, OH have picked up Babilon 5?  Any info will be greatly appreciated.
	Arkady
From: rlm7638@tamsun.tamu.edu (Ross Mckinney)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Uniforms in Chain of Command
Date: 27 Dec 1992 00:23:04 -0600
Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station, TX
NNTP-Posting-Host: tamsun.tamu.edu

In a previous article, dunae@mala.bc.ca writes:
>	In Chain of Command part II, how come Dianna Troi is wearing
>a blue medical uniform?   Is it because of the new captain, or because
>counselling and phsycology is medical?

    1) Blue means science, not specifically medical.
    2) Jellico gave her a specific order in Part I to wear a standard
uniform.

+---------------------------------------------------+------------------------+
| "My problem is I need to discipline myself. I was | Jack McKinney          |
|  having this large Dutch woman do it..."          | jmckinney@tamu.edu     |
+---------------------- -Emo Philips ---------------+------------------------+
From: rawdon@colby.cs.wisc.edu (Michael Rawdon)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: TNG Grade Report: "Chain Of Command" Part I
Date: 25 Dec 92 06:31:55 GMT
Reply-To: rawdon@colby.cs.wisc.edu
Organization: University of Wisconsin Computer Sciences Dept., Madison, WI

In <rsvanc00.725257057@mik.uky.edu> rsvanc00@nx37.mik.uky.edu (Randolph S. Vance) writes:
>The reason to going to a four-shift rotation should have been obvious to you.
>Three shift rotations mean people are at stations for 8 hours a time.
>Four shift means that they are on duty for 6 hours at a time.

I can count, thanks.

>When the crew is preparing to go to war and is expected to face off in
>battle, the Captain would want his crew at their best, well rested and their
>peak. He also would want them to spend less time at stations, if there is
>a four-shift rotation and the ship goes into battle, and people get injured
>or killed at their duty stations, it makes it easier to replace needed
>personnel.

This makes little sense, given how hard he was working the crew anyway.  They
are almost certainly bound to be at less than peak efficiency, and adjusting
to a new rotation is likely only to throw them out of their rhythm.  (I know
that all sorts of even more trivial scheduling changes can throw ME out of MY
rhythms.)  Had he had a month or so to work with them, making this change
might have made sense.  In this context, it doesn't.

>Second, it should have been clear also why Jellico wanted so much to
>increase the performance of the Enterprise's defensive systems. The
>Enterprise is a vessel of scientific research and emergency colony
>relocation. Though it has defensive and offensive systems, it was not
>built to be a vessel of war.

This makes sense, but wasn't made clear in the episode.  Sure, there was a
throwaway line which covered SOME of the changes, but not all of them.  (I
still want to know where Jellico became such a competent engineer.  I really
have trouble swallowing TNG's "Jacks-of-all-trades" commanders.)

>			       Believe me, there are some smaller battleships
>in service to the Federation that stand a good chance of defeating the
>Big E if they went to war with each other.

Really?  Which episode did you get this information from?

>Third, and finally, what should have been tatooed on Jellico's head would
>have been the words, "I AM A PLOT DEVICE!"

No, he was a *character*, and a rather good one, too.  I can't offhand think
of a genuine plot device in this story...

-- 
Michael Rawdon				  rawdon@colby.cs.wisc.edu
University of Wisconsin Computer Sciences Department,  Madison, WI
( Now in the Boston, Massachusetts area! )

"Can this world not do better than you for a champion?"
"Probably.  I just do the best I can."
					- The Brigadier
					  Doctor Who, "Battlefield"
					  [Probably misquoted]
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: tww@mullauna.cs.mu.OZ.AU (Terence Wai-Juinn WONG)
Subject: Re: Galaxy-class Starships
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 20:38:49 GMT

   Hmmm...on the subject of Galaxy class Starships, why didn't we see the wreck of one in "The Best Of Both Worlds" ?  I mean that, if Starfleet knew they would
be fighting the Borg, wouldn't they have used their 'best' ships?  I think that
the sight of such a vessel in the 'graveyard' scene would have made the plight
of our heroes a little more desperate.  BTW, I loved BOBW.  Please don't flame
me - just trying to stimulate intelligent converse!


    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
     Eliott:  "He's a man from outer space and we're taking him to his      
		  spaceship."
     Greg:    "Well...why doesn't he just beam-up?"
     Eliott:  "This is REALITY Greg."
					  ET The Extra Terrestrial.
					  tww@mullauna.cs.mu.oz.au.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ewright@convex.com (Edward V. Wright)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Uniform Colors...When are they mandatory?
Date: 29 Dec 92 21:17:58 GMT
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

In <lmahoney.41@chemdept.chem.ncsu.edu> lmahoney@chemdept.chem.ncsu.edu (Louise Mahoney) writes:

>what I want to know is how security went from being red in TOS
>(ie the curse of the redshirt) to gold as it is in TNG?
>and engineering went from red in TOS (Scotty wore red)
>to gold in TNG

Because command went from gold to red.  The two colors swapped
symbolisms.  (Which probably wouldn't happen in the real world, 
but hey....)
From: mcelroy@bu.edu (Carl Mackin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: chain of command
Date: 28 Dec 92 13:39:07 GMT
Distribution: rec
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

>Cardassians firing phasers at your back

Remember that Beverly had a portable force sheild however, that would have
slowed - if not stopped - any pursuit.
--Mac
From: ph9991_manfr@rivers.acc.uwrf.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Saturday Night Review - "Chain of Command Part II" SPOILERS!
Date: 29 Dec 92 11:13:00 -0600
Organization: University of Wisconsin - River Falls

In article <BH8iwB2w165w@cybernet.cse.fau.edu>, dascoser@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (david serchay) writes:
> ph9991_manfr@rivers.acc.uwrf.edu writes:
> 
>> And now, not at all live, from Ellsworth and River Falls, Wisconsin,
>> it's the Saturday Night Review!!!
>> 
>> 
>> SPOILERS ahead for "Chain of Command Part II"
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> SPOILERS!  -Do not cross the Cardassian border
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Script(Dialog and Scenes alone): Average.  Good points were Gul Madred's
>> 	showing-off of Picard to his daugher, bad points were the constant
>> 	and very pointless use and reuse of the "four, five, SIX" lights
>> 	time after time.  As I said before, none of the techniques we saw
>> 	had any science fiction bend to them whatsoever, thus I consider
>> 	them below average for a science fiction series.
> Ever read 1984? 2+2=5. If you can someone to say that he sees something 
> he doesn't then you have him. If Picard had said 5 lights, then Madred
> would have had him.
> 
> Dascoser

Yes, I know that.  That's why I say it was so obvious and pointless, since
it's a very old tactic used several times in science fiction.

Steven.K.Manfred


Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: finoc_j@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Jeffrey Finocchiaro)
Subject: Music during the preview for CoC II
Organization: HAC - Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 05:23:19 GMT

	During the previews for CoCII, I noticed the music was quite different.
I don't recall where I heard the theme before, but I think that it might have
been from Excalibur (another of Patrick Stewart's credits).  Can anyone clarify
this?  It could also have been from some horror film..I can't remember.  I can
just hear the theme..  Oh well..

	It was a pleasant switch from the normal music during the previews..this
had a certain frightening, dark quality to it.  The scenes with Riker in direct
confrontation with Jellico, the scenes with Gul Madred and poor Picard being
tortured, coupled with this haunting theme made the episode look incredible.
I for one can't wait to see part II.  


-- 
-----------------------------
100% Italian and Proud of It!
-----------------------------
From: ez033589@chip.ucdavis.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Galaxy-class Starships
Date: 24 Dec 92 23:06:36 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Computing Services, UC Davis

In article <alix.725180050@pv663d.vincent.iastate.edu> alix@iastate.edu (L.A. Melloy) writes:
>In <9235907.19007@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU> tww@mullauna.cs.mu.OZ.AU (Terence Wai-Juinn WONG) writes:
>
>>   Hmmm...on the subject of Galaxy class Starships, why didn't we see the wreck of one in "The Best Of Both Worlds" ?  I mean that, if Starfleet knew they would
>>be fighting the Borg, wouldn't they have used their 'best' ships?  I think that
>>the sight of such a vessel in the 'graveyard' scene would have made the plight
>>of our heroes a little more desperate.  BTW, I loved BOBW.  Please don't flame
>>me - just trying to stimulate intelligent converse!

StarFleet didn't send their best ships to Wolf 359... they sent their best
ships, their worst ships, cargo carriers... basically anything that could get
to Wolf 359 before the Borg. Many of Starfleet's ships couldn't (Obviously,
since we see some Excelsior-class ships in later episodes. I doubt Starfleet
is still building new ships to such an old design, so they must have been
80 year old ships that missed that battle.)

>From what I understand, only two Galaxy class starships have been built:
>the U.S.S. Yamoto and the Big E.  Rumors abound amongst my friends (rumors,
>'cause I don't know how valid they are) that the reason only two have been
>built is because they're very expensive, they're coming out with a newer model
>soon, or because they're so new, only two have had time to be built.

There has to be at least one more... the USS Galaxy. They are *Galaxy* class
ships, not *Enterprise* or *Yamato* class. 

JJ.
From: linley@netcom.com (Bruce James Robrert Linley)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: TROI SMUT????
Date: 30 Dec 92 17:47:00 GMT
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, UCLA

In a previous article chris.burgess@outlan.ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Chris Burgess) spake...
>norbert@wpi.WPI.EDU (Timothy James) writes:
>
>> A very trustworthy friend of mine SWEARS that
>> Marina Sirtis (Coun. Troi) made a porn movie...
>> Can anyone clear this up?
>
>I don't know if she made a porn movie or not, but I have a GIF of what
>appears to be Marina Sirtis topless, but because it's only viewable on
>my machine in black & white, it is hard to tell.
>

All right, let's settle this once and for all. Sirtis briefly appeared topless
in the following films:

- Blind Date (1982) [This is NOT the 1987 film with Bruce Willis]
    Plays a hooker, gets killed by taxi driver.
- Death Wish III (1985)
    Gets manhandled by bad guys.

Sirtis appeared nude in:

- The Wiked Lady (British, 1983)
    In bed, later gets whipped by Faye Dunaway.

Source: The Bare Facts Video Guide: Where to find your favorite actors and
        actresses nude on videotape, by Craig Hosoda

-- 
Bruce James Robert Linley | "Well, I tried shoving a weiner in the warp drive,
Comp Sci & Engr, UCLA     |  but it didn't do a bit o' good."
<linley@netcom.com>       | - Star Dreck, c/o Dr. Demento
<linley@seas.ucla.edu>    |
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: rsvanc00@nx24.mik.uky.edu (Randolph S. Vance)
Subject: Romulan Intellegence in CoC I & II (Minor Spoilers)
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences
X-Path: nx24.mik.uky.edu!rsvanc00
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 19:20:27 GMT

Beware! Spoilers! You have been warned!
























IF word had filtered down through Romulan Intellegence that the Cardassians
were working on a Metagenics weapon and perfecting a sub-space transmission
method, And why oh why do I get the feeling that they will get word of it.
Anyway, if the word reached the Romulans about what the Cardassians were
up to, they would waste no time and send a Romulan warbird first to 
Sultris III and then to Cardassia and incinerate each planet with about
150 plasma torpedos and then re-cloak and leave. After all, Dr. Crusher
stated "even the Romulans have abided by that" in referance to the ban
on all Metagenic weapons and their development.

Catch you later.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Randolph S. Vance
 
              RSVANC00@mik.uky.edu (NeXT Mail)
              RSVANC00@ukpr.uky.edu
              RSVANC00@ukcc.uky.edu
 
QUOTE: "I'll watch some TV, it'll help me to RELAX!"
              -Ren Hoek
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current