From: thornley@pico.cs.umn.edu (David H. Thornley)
Subject: Re: Marketing of the Generic
Organization: University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, CSci dept.
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 00:23:53 GMT

In article <41326@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> bkoike@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Bryce Koike) writes:
>In article <2B0B443B.16337@ics.uci.edu> mmadsen@ics.uci.edu (Matt Madsen) writes:
>>I've noticed that one complaint against multi-genre systems (like GURPS) is
>>that things are...well, generic.  What could GURPS, Hero, and others do to make
>>their products more palatable to people who really like the feel of a game
>>tailor-made for one genre.
>
>[That is the drawback of generic systems; you can't stick in genre-
> specific stats because they'd conflict with other genres or be useless
> or whatever - this is also the problem with converting a single-genre
> game into a multiple-genre game.]

Nope, I've stuck additional stats into Hero to make it more like Call of
Cthulhu.  It works.  You might want to make the default (i.e., zero-cost)
stats and such at a useful but not overwhelming level, so that people can
design characters in a familiar manner, but also be able to be better at
the genre-specific thing.

If you are simply adapting an existing generic system, like GURPS or Hero,
to a single genre, you can add things as you please.  Almost every GURPS
sourcebook seems to have additional advantages and disadvantages, and we've
seen how this is similar to additional stats in other posts.  The problems
only come in when characters start crossing campaign lines.  ("I'm going to
run a space exploration campaign."  "Can I run my wizard in it?" "Can I run
my netrunner in it?" "Can I run my Call of Cthulhu investigator in it?"
"Can I run my superhero in it?" "Can I run my munchkin in it?")

The disadvantage of a generic game system is that it isn't specifically
designed for the game being run, and so it can't be as suited for it.
On the other hand, it may be better designed than an a particular set of
specific rules, and it has the advantage of familiarity.

If you play fantasy games with Rolemaster and science fiction with Universe
and horror with Call of Cthulhu and gothic punk with Vampire and so on,
you need to know a lot of different game systems.  If you play these with
GURPS or Hero, you learn one game system, and become much more proficient
at it; even if the generic system is harder to use than every specific
system, you will get pretty adept at it.

>>What could be done in general, and what could be done specifically for,
>>say, Vampire (hot topic!) and other settings.
>
>	A lot of vampire deals with super power-style effects and
>GURPS advantages (well, Hero advantages too...).  Yeah, too generic,
>but writing up new and strange rules just to get an Alternate Genre
>Feel would violate the supposed integrity which HERO and GURPS are
>supposed to have.  (Your own house rules can ignore this, of
>course.)

What sort of integrity are you violating?  In Hero, I'd write up the
disciplines, etc., as powers or power packages, and tell the players
how they can get them.  The point cost may change, but that seems
unimportant (unless you want to convert existing characters - my
suggestion is to simply redesign them).  This, in particular, is what
the Hero metasystem was designed to do.

>	Yes, more artificial, but that's what seperates GURPS from
>Vampire or GURPS from Shadowrun, etc.  If you're going to switch to
>another game system, you should do it because that system offers
>something you want, not just for the sake of switching.  And never
>expect the alternate gaming system to work exactly the same as they
>one you're leaving (again, why switch?)...
>
Agreed.  Call of Cthulhu and Cthulhu Hero did not work in the same manner;
some stuff I liked better and some I didn't like as well.  (Of course, in
a good Cthulhu campaign, it really doesn't matter what the characters can
do, because they're hopelessly outclassed no matter what.)  I switched as
part of the general agreement to play Hero, and partly to get experience
GMing Hero.  Eventually, I restarted my old D&D campaign that I'd dropped
because I was becoming more and more unsatisfied with D&D rules, figuring
that Fantasy Hero would be perfectly acceptable.
>>
>>Should they have special character sheets, less generic source books (world
>>books)?
>>
Character sheets, probably not; the existing GURPS and Hero character sheets
should accomodate almost any genre.  World books would be real useful.  GURPS
Vampire is expected out next year.  Vampire Hero (which isn't coming out, of
course) can be improvised with the existing Hero rulebook and Vampire
background, if you like.

DHT

Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc