HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: skelly@amiganet.chi.il.us (Sean Kelly)
Newsgroups: rec.games.vectrex
Subject: Re: Amiga development system update...
Date: 17 Nov 92 08:38:17 GMT
Organization: Amiga Network Information Systems


 
 
     I would have a whack at building it.  I do have two Amiga's actually. 
Sounds like something I could screw up big-time!!   AHHAHAHAHHA

%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%
%   Sean Kelly - Sysop Amizon BBS (312)594-1146                         %
%   Always looking for classic video games for the following systems:   %
%                                                                       %
%  Atari 2600-Atari 5200-ColecoVision-Atari 5200-Intellivision-Vectrex  %
%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%
From: jimc@tau-ceti.isc-br.com (Jim Cathey)
Newsgroups: rec.games.vectrex
Subject: Re: Amiga development system update...
Date: 16 Nov 92 23:40:34 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: ISC - Bunker Ramo, Spokane, WA

In article <TROYER.92Nov13092939@finmark.nynexst.com> troyer@finmark.nynexst.com (Tom Royer) writes:
>the trouble:  According to pinout.txt in the text directory of the vectrex
>archive, pin 12 is OE* and pin 16 is CE*.  I have a feeling these are backwards.
>When the vectrex is playing a rom, OE* is held low and CE* pulses.  Now if
>these signals are hooked up to a eprom according to the text file, things will
>still work fine.  But my interface was relying on OE* to control a tri-state
>bus transciever.  The transciever was asserting the data bus all the time and

You have not properly emulated the behavior of a memory device.  BOTH the
signals have to be active in order to enable the output drivers.  Use an
AND gate.


-- 
+----------------+
! II      CCCCCC !  Jim Cathey
! II  SSSSCC     !  ISC-Bunker Ramo
! II      CC     !  TAF-C8;  Spokane, WA  99220
! IISSSS  CC     !  UUCP: uunet!isc-br!jimc (jimc@isc-br.isc-br.com)
! II      CCCCCC !  (509) 927-5757
+----------------+
			One Design to rule them all; one Design to find them.
			One Design to bring them all and in the darkness bind
			them.  In the land of Mediocrity where the PC's lie.
Newsgroups: rec.games.vectrex
From: troyer@finmark.nynexst.com (Tom Royer)
Subject: VECTREX DEVELOPMENT SYSTEM WORKING!!!
Organization: /u/troyer/.organization
Distribution: rec
Posting-Front-End: GNU Emacs 18.55.2 of Tue Mar 20 1990 on oberon (berkeley-unix)
Date: 16 Nov 92 11:21:06

Hello All!

   I finally got my Vectrex development system working!  Here's what
it's all about: It's basically an eprom emulator.  The interface has a
32K static ram that can be switched between the Vectrex (where is looks
like a cartridge) and the development side.  The development side
consists of a standard centronics parallel port to your micro, and a few
latches that store data and address bytes to program the SRAM.  So this
allows me to download from my Amiga a binary image (up to 32K) to the
interface, and subsequently execute it with the Vectrex.  Why 32K?
Well, I had a few project ideas that were memory hungry.  I though the
sound samples in Spike were pretty neat, and I wanted to experiment with
larger ones.  Also I wanted to experiment with relocating game images
and perhaps making a switchless multi-cart.  It could be menu driven
perhaps!  The vectrex can only address a maximum of 50K through the cart
port, however - so this menu driven multi-cart can't hold as many games
as a hardware switched one (unless in had some support hardware to latch
the high address lines).

   So, I'd be glad to document this and post instructions if anyone is
interested.  With this working, I now have a great interest in any
information we can get from the Vectrex's original designers.  Have we
received any further correspondence from Jay Smith?  (I've forgotten who
our "official spokesperson" was).

   I've started playing with some of the assembly source in the archive.
I've been able to assemble some of the smaller programs (after major
syntactical overhaul for the benefit of my archaic assembler) and get
them running.  Does anyone out there have any Vectrex source code thats
not in the archive?

   Somewhere in the text or source code sections of the archive, I saw a
reference to what would seem to be a programmers reference guide of
sorts.  I have Routine-Refs from off the net somewhere, but this seems
to be incomplete and the product of reverse engineering.  Has anyone
seen any documentation to this effect?

   Well, enough for now.  If I get anything new and interesting running,
I'll let you know.

                                             -Tom Royer
                                              troyer@nynexst.com

From: jensk@hpbbn.bbn.hp.com (Jens Kilian)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 20:51:41 GMT
Subject: Re: VECTREX DEVELOPMENT SYSTEM WORKING!!!
Organization: HP
Newsgroups: rec.games.vectrex
Distribution: rec

Please make a description of this gadget generally available. I'd like to
try it out (even if it's only because I don't have an EPROM burner and I'd
like to try out the games in the archive).

Thanks in advance,

	Jens.
--
Internet: jensk@hpbeo82.bbn.hp.com    HPDESK : JENS_KILIAN%XU@HP1200
MausNet:  Jens Kilian @ BB                     KILIAN_JENS/HP1200_XU@hpbbi4
Phone: (0|+49)7031-14-4308            TELNET : 778-4308
Fax  : (0|+49)7031-14-2049
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As the air to a bird, or the sea to a fish, so is contempt to the contemptible.
From: skelly@amiganet.chi.il.us (Sean Kelly)
Newsgroups: rec.games.vectrex
Subject: Re: VECTREX DEVELOPMENT SYSTEM WORKING!!!
Date: 19 Nov 92 22:39:50 GMT
Organization: Amiga Network Information Systems


 
 
     I would love to see a text on how to build what you built.  Please post it
here when you have time.  Thanks....

%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%
%   Sean Kelly - Sysop Amizon BBS (312)594-1146                         %
%   Always looking for classic video games for the following systems:   %
%                                                                       %
%  Atari 2600-Atari 5200-ColecoVision-Atari 5200-Intellivision-Vectrex  %
%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%
Newsgroups: rec.games.vectrex
From: spittles@bilbo.inmos.co.uk (Ed Spittles)
Subject: development system
Reply-To: spittles@bilbo.inmos.co.uk (Ed Spittles)
Organization: INMOS Transputer Group, Bristol, UK.
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 15:10:19 GMT

This sounds like a very interesting thread. Trouble is, all I've seen
is two follow-ups from Sean Kelly - the original postings never got here.

So - a couple of requests:

1/ Could the original poster please email me the original article?

2/ How about using world distribution for interesting
   announcements?   At our site, we get only 10 messages a week,
   so I can't see any great extra cost.

Ed.

Ed Spittles, INMOS Ltd         spittles@inmos.com OR spittles@inmos.co.uk
1000 Aztec West, Almondsbury   Tel:+44 454 616616
From: medwards@qualcom.qualcomm.com (Matt Edwards)
Newsgroups: rec.games.vectrex
Subject: Re: Development systems...
Date: 18 Nov 92 22:36:20 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA


Anyone out there got a vectrex to sell?
Newsgroups: rec.games.vectrex
From: "david shadoff" <david.shadoff@canrem.com>
Subject: amiga development sys
Reply-To: "david shadoff" <david.shadoff@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: rec
Date: 20 Nov 92 20:01:28 EST

In message <2827#tau-ceti.isc-br.com>, jimc@tau-ceti.isc-br.com
(Jim Cathey) writes:

>>the trouble:  According to pinout.txt in the text directory of the vectrex
>>archive, pin 12 is OE* and pin 16 is CE*.  I have a feeling these are backwards.
>>When the vectrex is playing a rom, OE* is held low and CE* pulses.  Now if
>>these signals are hooked up to a eprom according to the text file, things will
>>still work fine.  But my interface was relying on OE* to control a tri-state
>>bus transciever.  The transciever was asserting the data bus all the time and

>You have not properly emulated the behavior of a memory device.  BOTH the
>signals have to be active in order to enable the output drivers.  Use an
>AND gate.

Sounded to me like he understood what was going on.  Oh, and you
probably mean 'OR' gate - the '*' indicates an active-low condition.

 - Dave
 
 /===================================================================\
|    David Shadoff       |  Usenet:  david.shadoff@canrem.com         |
 \===================================================================/
---
  DeLuxe 1.21 #7291  Yesterday's news is tomorrow's fish & chip paper.
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
From: golub@nwu.edu (Robert Golub)
Subject: Sierra Network Go-NOT Mac
Followup-To: rec.games.go
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois, USA
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 14:47:58 GMT

I checked with The Sierra Network and, unfortunately for us Macintosh
users, it is only configured to work with DOS machines.

-Rob
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
From: I0060301@dbstu1.rz.tu-bs.de (Klaus Blumberg)
Subject: go-world no.67
Organization: Technical University Braunschweig, Germany
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 14:01:33 GMT

sorry to bother the net for a personal thing, but anton is not
to be reached thru ordinary channels as it seems ....
 
hello anton
0've got a minor complaint about go-world #67 (spring '92).
on page 21 - 3rd game of china-japan tengen playoff - there appears
the figure 8 as figure 9 again. therefore the game is uncomplete.
can u, being an ishi press agent and therefore probably in close
contact to 'big mama', clarify whether there will be a corrrection
in the next issue?
and another thing about the go-world in general: i think it's a waste
of space to dedicate 2 pages to the explanation of the title-picture.
the go-world should return (IMHO) to the format they used to have:
a smallish text beneath the table of contents, and give us readers more
go on the re-won 2 pages.
but in general: it's a great paper.
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
From: dwr2560@zeus.tamu.edu (RING, DAVID WAYNE)
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Subject: Official rating discussion (was: Change my strength?)
Date: 22 Nov 1992 21:44 CST
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: zeus.tamu.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

jlzhong@vision.csl.uiuc.edu (Jialin Zhong) writes...
>No, I won't want to block the way of any system that most of the igsers
>support to implement. However, I can foresee a lot of people will start
>to critisize your new more restricted system as soon as it starts.
                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Every system proposed so far is 100% optional. How can that possibly be
more restrictive? It actually allows people options they didn't have
before.

>                                                                   And 
>the adminstrator of igs will have to deal with the complains from those 
>more "serious" players of the "unmoral, unethical" way of their opponents
>to win a game.

Finally someone finds a valid objection. People might do
unpleasant things in order to steal the
valuable rating points from stronger players. Thus there should be a
command 'toggle rating' to participate/not participate
in the official rating system.

Thank you for pointing out this potential problem. Note that if everyone
points out the potential problems BEFORE a system is in place, then
there is not likely to be any complaining later since the system will
be designed to fix the problems.

>>Again I ask: why oppose it? What are the drawbacks (except for the
>>programmers)?
> 
>Okey, my point is that igs is not neighborhood go club. I would like
>see it as a loose forum that people can make friends through playing go and
>learn and improve yourself in the meantime.

And others would like to see it be something else. So who decides?

We are suggesting a system so that everyone can decide for themselves.
How can there be any objections to that?

Dave Ring (Cdude ?-kyu)
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
From: tak@tazboy.jpl.nasa.gov (Tom Kreitzberg)
Subject: Re: Change my strength?
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 19:43:03 GMT


In article <1992Nov19.142804.108206@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> xp02@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (XIAOFENG PAN) writes:

>I heard in China, you have to win 70% games before you can increase your rank.

Boy, _that_ could take a while. :-(

	Tom, 30k
From: adrian@stein.u.washington.edu (Adrian Mariano)
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Subject: Re: Is there a new version of IGC??
Date: 15 Nov 92 22:01:25 GMT
Organization: University of Washington

In <1e6ba7INNcov@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> jonathan@cats.ucsc.edu (Jonathan Cano) writes:

>I just logged on to the net with igc (v50.0 I think) and I saw
>the message about the client API being changed (or something)...
>When I did a 'who' each line in the list of players was printed
>twice.  I did a few more commands and then got a segmentation fault.

>I reckon there isn't a new version of IGC out yet is there?

These things take time.
From: cust_ts@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Tero Sand)
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Subject: Re: Change my strength?
Date: 19 Nov 92 08:33:21 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki

In article <1992Nov18.125355.19278@cc.tut.fi> korkki@cc.tut.fi (Korhonen Mika) writes:
>
>Hi!
>
>I wonder when I sould change my rank in IGC?
>
>Example: I win a better player or lose poorer player.
>
>Should I change my rank right after the game, or should I wait until I have
>played several games? How much sould I change my rank at once?
>
>
>	Korkki, estimated rank 16k
>	email: korkki@cc.tut.fi

If your rank was estimated at a club, I'd recommend sticking with it.
You can possibly use results you get in IGS to get your club to promote
you, though.

If you really want to promote yourself on IGS, I'd examine the results
of the last 10 games or so. One is definitely not enough.

	Tero Sand, 2 kyu
-- 
	EMail: cust_ts@cc.helsinki.fi   or   custts@cc.helsinki.fi
   "I feel most ministers who claim they've heard God's voice are eating
too much pizza before they go to bed at night, and it's really an 
intestinal disorder, not a revelation." - Reverend Jerry Falwell
From: rbrown@ncsa.uiuc.edu (Gozilla [2k])
Subject: Re: Change my strength?
Originator: rbrown@troon.ncsa.uiuc.edu
Organization: Nat'l Ctr for Supercomp App (NCSA) @ University of Illinois
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 15:07:16 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.125355.19278@cc.tut.fi> korkki@cc.tut.fi (Korhonen Mika) writes:
>
>Hi!
>
>I wonder when I sould change my rank in IGC?

Here's how I do it...

>Example: I win a better player or lose poorer player.

When my win/loss ratio is near 1 I think my rank is accurate, because against a
player of exactly equal strength, I would expect to win half the games.

>Should I change my rank right after the game, or should I wait until I have
>played several games? How much sould I change my rank at once?

If I'm winning "a lot" more games than I'm losing, my rank is probably set too
low.

If I'm losing "a lot" more games than I'm winning, my rank is probably set too
high.

I usually wait until the difference between games won and games lost is > 5.

Hmmm, if this were enforced by the server...  Voila!  We have automated ranking.

Of course folks would be able to clear their win/loss ratios and arbitrarily
reset their ranks, as they do now.  If somebody said they were a 6p, but only
had won 2 games and lost 0, I'd be pretty skeptical that 6p were his actual
rank.  On the other hand, when I see a 14k who has won 70 and lost 30, I figure
he's a bit stronger than 14k!

>	Korkki, estimated rank 16k
>	email: korkki@cc.tut.fi
>
>

	Gozilla, automated rank 2k
-- 
Rich Brown (Neither)
rbrown@ncsa.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
From: jzy@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Jim Yu)
Subject: Re: The Mysteries of Weiqi (part 11) ---- On ranking system
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 00:30:54 GMT

In article <By1E74.FB1@watdragon.uwaterloo.ca> yychen@watdragon.uwaterloo.ca (Youyi Chen) writes:
>======================================================================
>... ...
>While I am still waiting for my friend jzy@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Jim Yu)
>to ask his Japanese teacher the English spelling of Qiao3 Ben2 Yu2 Tai4
>Lang2, ... ...
>
Excuse me! I didn't you were *waiting*, Youyi.  I thought you were showing
off your much improved Pinyin. :)

Here is his name in "English": Hashimoto Utaro.

>In the 60s, when the Chinese Go Bible ("Xian Xian Qi Jing", which includes 
>"Thirteen chapters on Weiqi") is re-translated by the great Japanese player 
>(Qiao3 Ben2 Yu2 Tai4 Lang2), he wrote "1 Pin Ru Shen" should be 

Again: Hashimoto Utaro.

Regards,
Jim Z Yu
From: xp02@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (XIAOFENG PAN)
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Subject: Re: Change my strength?
Date: 19 Nov 92 14:28:04 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

In article <1992Nov18.150716.12772@ncsa.uiuc.edu>, rbrown@ncsa.uiuc.edu (Gozilla
 [2k]) writes:
>In article <1992Nov18.125355.19278@cc.tut.fi> korkki@cc.tut.fi (Korhonen Mika)
writes:
>>I wonder when I sould change my rank in IGC?
>
>Here's how I do it...
>When my win/loss ratio is near 1 I think my rank is accurate, because against a
>player of exactly equal strength, I would expect to win half the games.
>If I'm winning "a lot" more games than I'm losing, my rank is probably set too
>low.
>If I'm losing "a lot" more games than I'm winning, my rank is probably set too
>high.
>I usually wait until the difference between games won and games lost is > 5.
>       Gozilla, automated rank 2k
>--
>Rich Brown (Neither)
>rbrown@ncsa.uiuc.edu
>

I heard in China, you have to win 70% games before you can increase your rank.

I am still working on that 70% :) -- therefore still 4k.
-panx
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
From: bernd@bhprtc.scpd.oz.au (Bernd Wechner)
Subject: Re: winning ratio
Organization: BHP Steel, Sheet & Coil, Research & Technology Centre
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 02:38:26 GMT

fred@dickens.com (Fred R Stearns) writes:

>Somewhere (I can't remember where now) I saw the following
>formula:
>
>P = 1/2 * (2/3)^(2*d)
>
>where d is the absolute rank difference and P is the probability
>that the weaker player will win.

Is this with, or without handicap stones? Presumably without.

-- 
Bernd Wechner, Research Engineer                       (bernd@bhprtc.scpd.oz.au)
BHP Sheet and Coil Products Division, Research and Technology Centre
Port Kembla, New South Wales, Australia.
From: kinne@oswego.Oswego.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Subject: Smart Go to Ishi Format Converter
Date: 18 Nov 92 02:27:56 GMT
Reply-To: kinne@oswego.Oswego.EDU ()
Distribution: na
Organization: Instructional Computing Center, SUNY at Oswego, Oswego, NY
Originator: kinne@penelope.oswego.edu

Folks:
	Does anyone have, or know of, a program to convert Smart-Go
games files (such as are on ftp.u.washington.edu) to Ishi format so
people who have programs such as "The Many Faces of Go" can deal
with them?
					Doc Kinne
					kinnerc@snymorva.BITNET
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 00:57:08 -0500 
From: "Jonathan R. Ferro" <jf41+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Go mathematics book

mulberry@triton.unm.edu writes:
> I recently stumbled onto an add for a book called,
> "the Mathematics of Go".  I don't remember who wrote
> the book.  I believe it is published by Ishi Press.
> 
> If anybody has read the book, I would like to know
> what they thought of it and e-mail me a brief
> synopsis.

Please POST this information, if you are going to reply, as I am
interested also.

-- Jon Ferro               Einsprachigkeit ist heilbar
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
From: jzy@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Jim Yu)
Subject: Re: Japanese Players' Names
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 02:03:44 GMT

Hello everyone,

Very soon I received a message from Huayong <s9874203@titan.ucc.umass.edu>
that pointed out two of my mistakes in *Pinyin*:

	>Teng2-Ze2 Peng2-Zai            Fujisawa Hosai
                	 ^^^
              should be: Zhai


and	>Da4-Zu2 Ying-Xiong2            Otake Hideo
   	     ^^
  should be: Zhu2

So in both cases I mis-spelled "Zh" as "Z." You can tell that I am from
Jiang Su (Nanjing). ^_^

Regards,
Jim Yu
--
Go isn't everything.  Go is the only thing.           -- zhuge

"zhuge, why does your .plan change every minute -- when i finger you?"
"you must have used a different finger each time."
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
From: yychen@watdragon.uwaterloo.ca (Youyi Chen)
Subject: Re: Change my strength?
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 00:31:06 GMT

I wrote in my original article "M of W (11) --- on ranking system"
>While I do agree that IGS should look for a better or more scientific
>ranking system, I, for one, would like to suggest to everybody out there 
>that as an amateur player, please don't take rankings too seriously.

I agree with both! (perhsps, all sides out there following this topic) 
:-)))

And, I wrote:
>...
>meaning that use Weiqi (go) to meet friends. Look for those who have
>the same understanding as you do (understanding of go and other things)
                                                            ^^^^^^^^^^^
>although who may happen to be a lot weaker or stronger on the board at the 
>time when you meet.

I didn't elaborate on "other things"  about what and how 
while Jialin did it from his point of view (I said thanks through private
email). Hahaha, now Jialin make some people flamed with rage. :-))))

BTW, friends of mine on igs ranked from 7d to 7kyu or lower (include NRs).
In terms of "understanding of go AND other things", I don't think that a 7kyu 
is much weaker than a 7d.

Youyi Chen
From: jwang@gaas.uwindsor.ca (Ms. Jing Hong (June) Wang)
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Subject: Re: Change my strength?
Date: 19 Nov 1992 21:55:18 GMT
Reply-To: jwang@gaas.uwindsor.ca
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.


>>I wonder when I sould change my rank in IGC?
>
>Here's how I do it...
>When my win/loss ratio is near 1 I think my rank is accurate, because against a
>player of exactly equal strength, I would expect to win half the games.
>If I'm winning "a lot" more games than I'm losing, my rank is probably set too
>low.
>If I'm losing "a lot" more games than I'm winning, my rank is probably set too
>high.
>I usually wait until the difference between games won and games lost is > 5.
>       Gozilla, automated rank 2k
>--
>Rich Brown (Neither)
>rbrown@ncsa.uiuc.edu
>

<I heard in China, you have to win 70% games before you can increase your rank.

I am still working on that 70% :) -- therefore still 4k.
-panx>

In Beijing Amateur Go school we did it in this way:

Students in the same level were put in one group(usually more than 10 students in a Kyo-level group). They played with one another until all met. Those who win 70% or more of the games would be changed in an upper level group, their rank would be increased of course, while the students who lost too many games, say 70% would be dropped to the lower one. 

I wonder how you determined your rank here.

Newsgroups: rec.games.go
From: fred@dickens.com (Fred R Stearns)
Subject: Re: winning ratio
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 12:27:11 GMT
Organization: Dickens Data Systems, Inc.

In article <1992Nov17.023826.2810@bhprtc.scpd.oz.au> bernd@bhprtc.scpd.oz.au (Bernd Wechner) writes:
>fred@dickens.com (Fred R Stearns) writes:
>
>>Somewhere (I can't remember where now) I saw the following
>>formula:
>>
>>P = 1/2 * (2/3)^(2*d)
>>
>>where d is the absolute rank difference and P is the probability
>>that the weaker player will win.
>
>Is this with, or without handicap stones? Presumably without.
>

Without handicap stones.

-- 
Fred R. Stearns -- fred@dickens.com
Everything's a kludge!
Newsgroups: rec.games.go