HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Tagi@cup.portal.com (Tagi Mordred Nagashiva)
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
Subject: Re: Buddhist Martyrs
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 14:07:45 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <92272.111855WCE2@psuvm.psu.edu>

9209.28 e.v.


Bill Ellis writes:

See Joseph Campbell, Masks of God: Oriental Mythology, pp. 509-515
for accounts of thousands of Buddhist monks tortured and murdered
during the Rep. of China's takeover of Tibet and their subsequent
efforts to replace the cult of Buddha with the cult of Mao.


Response:

All well and good, yet this is not the type of 'martyrdom' of which
I speak, UNLESS this 'cult of Mao' was in some sense a reflection of
the cult of Buddha.  Mao was an historical individual, no?  His cult
resulted in POLITICAL skirmish.  To me, this is not part of the
Great Martyrdom Cult.


Thyagi
-------------------------------------------------------------------
The martyrdom must be practised AGAINST the orthodoxy, not as a simple
ALTERNATIVE TO IT.  Satanism is AGAINST the oppressive Paulist church
which calls itself 'Christian' and in reality is nothing more than
the rich stomping on the poor some more.
From: 6500null@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu (Null Cypher)
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
Subject: Re: Jesus?
Date: 3 Oct 92 19:04:26 GMT

In article <92276.24983.J024330@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM> J024330@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM writes:

[delete delete delete]

>You didn't answer my question.  If what you believed were untrue, would you
>want to know about it?  The answer is either, "Yes," or "No."

I personally am having problems in determining what exactly the relevence
of your question is.
From: rtsumn01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
Subject: Re: Xian crimes FAQ
Date: 6 Oct 92 03:40:50 GMT
Distribution: alt.satanism
Organization: University of Louisville

In article <1992Oct5.011202.25404@sol.ctr.columbia.edu>, locklin@titan.ucc.umass.edu writes:
> 
> 
> I got the following files from alt.atheism. David Rice seems to have access
> to lots of this stuff. Any comments as to its relevance here?
> Should it become a permanent FAQ?
> Perhaps the exorcism trial is a bit much, but the other stuffs seem valid...

Here's a concept that might be worthy of a separate FAQ, if it were offered up
with an explanation (why is it mentioned here, how does it relate to Satanism).
I know why, but some newcomer might not, and not be able to grasp the sublte
point being made.

--Semhaza
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
From: bc205cs@opie.bgsu.edu
Subject: OOPS! Yeshua?
Organization: Bowling Green State University
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 19:33:42 GMT

Here is my public apology to locklin -- I'm immensely sorry for my unfounded
accusations.  My post was directed at J024330@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
                                                            ^^^^^^^^- could be
what confused me, but who knows?  Anyhow, I just read J024330's last two
repulsive letters, and I'm going to direct myself to him:  Everything you say
is the same old crap that all xians say, and everything you say is dealt with
in the atheism FAQ.  If you've got an issue that isn't, let me know.

Humbly,
--Joshua
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
From: timf@microsoft.com (Tim Fleehart)
Subject: Re: Jesus?
Date: 06 Oct 92 00:05:00 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article <92279.25559.J024330@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM> J024330@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM writes:
>After months of reading the group, it can be concluded that the participants,
>using the logic they currently use, could prove beyond a shadow of a doubt
>that George Washington, and Abraham Lincoln did not exist.
>
>As a former pagan, athiest, agnostic, roman catholic, I set out to prove the
>Bible was false.  The proof is not there.

We aren't looking for proof of position.

Didn't your god give us free will so we could choose our own path?

We have chosen our path, please go away.

Tim
From: rtsumn01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Subject: test only, don't bother
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 15:00:53 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville

Sorry to do this to you guys; this is a test.

--Semhaza
From: bbs.techie@tsoft.sf-bay.org (Robert Mc Daniel)
Subject: Re: John 8: 42-47
Organization: The TSoft BBS and Public Access Unix, +1 415 969 8238
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 00:09:38 GMT

>         Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for 
> came from God and now am here.  I have not come on my own; but he sent me.  W
> is my language not clear to you?  Because you unable to hear what I say.  You
> belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's
> desire.  He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for
> there is no truth in him.  When he lies, he speaks his native language, for h
> is a liar and the father of lies.  Yet because I tell the truth, you do not
> believe me!  Can any of you prove me guilty of sin?  If I am telling the trut
> why don't you believe me?  He who belongs to God hears what God says.  The
> reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God."
 
Did you not read the .FAQ? This kind of bullshit posturing is neither 
needed or appriciated on this newsgroup.
 
Some people......(Xtians)
 
'Techie



--
Robert Mc Daniel (bbs.techie@tsoft.sf-bay.org)
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
From: J024330@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Subject: Re: Jesus?
Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space Company, Inc.
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 19:03:12 GMT

dementia@cheshire.oxy.edu (Daniel Steven Reinker) writes

>Certainly. But what I believe is not untrue. Thus I believe it.
>
>
>Hiz Lord Dementia

Thank you for your answer.  Follow up taken to E-Mail

Chris
From: rtsumn01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
Subject: Re: Temple of Set: Letters from Uncle Setnakt
Date: 30 Sep 92 02:17:48 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville

In article <66843@cup.portal.com>, Tagi@cup.portal.com (Tagi Mordred Nagashiva) writes:
> [Here is a letter I sent to Uncle Setnakt with excerpts from the one I
> received.  I think it is relevant to an exploration of TOS to display
> the thought (and/or lack thereof) from one of its members.]
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> 9209.29 e.v.
> 
> 
> Dear Uncle Setnakt,
> 
> You wrote to me:
> 
> 1.  
> ...I am very glad that you are critical.  
> ...The critical attitude is one that can lead to the truth, provided that
> skepticism itself, does not become a new faith.  I distrust all
> forms of faith in myself and try to root it out.  I still have a
> knee jerk reaction of disgust when I see faith in society whether
> in televangelists or members of CSICOP. 

Methinks he hath too much faith in the undesirability of faith.
 
[discussion of organizations as inebriating substances--er,
screwdrivers--deleted]

> 3.  
> Of course we are neo-Platonist.  Anyone who is not Plato is a neo-Platonist.

*laugh* Oh, dear. I read one of those Satanism scarebooks a couple years back
that mentioned the ToS. It quoted one of the "occult cops" (I hear about the
same ones over and over) who said (approximately), "The Temple of Set likes to
cultivate an image of intellectualism. From what I've read of theirs, I doubt
whether this is accurate." I had no idea it would be this bad.

Thank you, you seem to be providing us with the best laughs this semester.

--Semhaza
"Send me money, send me green
 Heaven you will meet
 Make a contribution
 And you'll get the better seat"
	--Metallica, "Leper Messiah"
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
From: Tagi@cup.portal.com (Tagi Mordred Nagashiva)
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
Subject: Re: The Great Martyrdom Cult
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 08:42:35 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1992Sep27.070858.10273@pellns.alleg.edu> <66775@cup.portal.com>
  <1992Sep29.044014.19513@sol.ctr.columbia.edu>

Scott Locklin writes [my comments in brackets]:

Modern Day feminists [only the Wiccans who worship the Crone]
Republicans on my (marxist) campus [no, there is no image involved]
Hippies in the '60-70's [only the ones who began making LSD their god]
Evan Marshall when he is on USENET [no]
Wilhelm Reich [doubtful, but I don't know much about him]
Copernicus [this was an idea, not an archetype etc.]
Radical Homosexual Groups [only those who worship Androgyny]
Timothy Leary [in some ways, yes]
Modern-Day Nazis [especially those into black magick, yes]


Is this approximately correct? All these go against an orthodoxy, and are
persecuted for their beliefs because of shoving the orthodoxy's face in
the facts... (or their version anyway)


Response:

They must BECOME an image which the orthodoxy abhors.  They must behave
AND speak in ways which derive from the unconscious mind of the society in
which they live - i.e. those energies which the society has repressed
must be given expression in them).  It ain't about shoving the orthodoxy's
fact in any 'facts'.  'Facts' have nothing to do with it.  It is a 
visceral, archetypal IMAGE which is portrayed in behavior and words.


Thyagi
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Strict opposition and persecution includes many many people.  The GMC is
not that big.  Very few individuals are probably members.
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
From: locklin@titan.ucc.umass.edu ()
Subject: Re: The Great Martyrdom Cult
Organization: Campus Crusade for Cthulhu
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 02:33:00 GMT
X-Posted-From: titan.ucc.umass.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <66835@cup.portal.com> Tagi@cup.portal.com (Tagi Mordred Nagashiva) writes:

>Scott Locklin writes [my comments in brackets]:
>
>Modern Day feminists [only the Wiccans who worship the Crone]
>Republicans on my (marxist) campus [no, there is no image involved]

You haven't been to my campus; these people are persecuted by faculty & student
alike for their right-wing beliefs. Kind of sad actually. In the "real world"
the tables would be turned. (as I said this place is _MUCHO_ marxist/feminist
& the YAF and YR are quite noisy/self destructive)

>Hippies in the '60-70's [only the ones who began making LSD their god]
>Evan Marshall when he is on USENET [no]
>Wilhelm Reich [doubtful, but I don't know much about him]

Dr Reich was literally destroyed by the AMA and the FDA for various researches
of his into the "occult" and sexual therapy. I would not be suprised if he were
an OTO member, his ideas about sex were OTO-like (similar "rituals")
This was one of the more recent cases, in this country, of book-burning by the
orthodoxy (Govt.) It happened in the puritanical 1950's, so the shadowing
of the scientific orthodoxy (held in extremely high esteem at the time), and
puritanical American values should be obvious.
 
>Copernicus [this was an idea, not an archetype etc.]

The earth going 'round the sun is not an archetype? You are incorrect here. It
went directly against the archetypical earth as the center of the cosmos
though of his time. Cast doubt on the book of Genesis as well (this implied a
universe centered around the earth)

>Radical Homosexual Groups [only those who worship Androgyny]
>Timothy Leary [in some ways, yes]
>Modern-Day Nazis [especially those into black magick, yes]

OOO- NAZI Magi; I'd like to meet one

>
>Is this approximately correct? All these go against an orthodoxy, and are
>persecuted for their beliefs because of shoving the orthodoxy's face in
>the facts... (or their version anyway)
>
>
>Response:
>
>They must BECOME an image which the orthodoxy abhors.  They must behave
>AND speak in ways which derive from the unconscious mind of the society in
>which they live - i.e. those energies which the society has repressed
>must be given expression in them).  It ain't about shoving the orthodoxy's
>fact in any 'facts'.  'Facts' have nothing to do with it.  It is a 
>visceral, archetypal IMAGE which is portrayed in behavior and words.
>
architect of the Cthuloid apocalypse...
-Scott
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 09:03:41 EDT
From: <WCE2@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
Subject: Re: Xian crimes FAQ
Distribution: alt.satanism
 <1992Oct5.234050.1@ulkyvx.louisville.edu>

In article <1992Oct5.234050.1@ulkyvx.louisville.edu>,
rtsumn01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu says: > >Here's a concept that might be
worthy of a separate FAQ, if it were offered up>with an explanation (why is
it mentioned here, how does it relate to >Satanism).  >I know why, but some
newcomer might not, and not be able to grasp the sublte >point being made.
> >--Semhaza

The point is that "satanism" is the scapegoat for a lot of extremely vile
things going on among fringy Christian sects, through the process known
among psychoanalysts as "projective inversion." That is, any tendency that
causes anxiety *within* the group will be inverted into an "evil" form and
attached to a marginal group of outsiders that does not have political power
enough to defend itself.  The material in the file posted is actually pretty
tame; I have some really ugly stuff in my "exorcism" files: 3-year-olds
being slowly beaten to death, stuffed in hot ovens, etc., all in the name of
combatting the devil.  The 1976 "Cunningham Family" case in Yakima,
Washington, is especially important because it was widely reported in the
Seattle/Victoria, B.C.  papers at the exact time that Michelle Smith was
beginning to have her "flashbacks" to her satanic ritual abuse days: what
she initially recalled has many striking parallels to what the kid in
question had to put up with to get the devil out of him.

This has been going on for years; Alan Dundes has a good casebook, _The
Blood Libel Legend_ (U Wisconsin Press, 1991) giving historical details back
to Roman times, when it was those sexy ritual cannibals, the primitive
Christians, who were burned for eating babies.

Bill Ellis (wce2 @ psuvm.pus.edu)                 Editor, FOAFtale News
Penn State, Hazleton Campus                       Voice: 717-450-3026
Hazleton, PA 18201-1291                           Fax: 717-450-3182
"I now know that thy right worship is defiance. To neither love nor reverence
 wilt thou be kind; and e'en for hate thou canst but kill; and all are killed."
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
From: J024330@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Subject: Re: Jesus?
Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space Company, Inc.
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 05:49:58 GMT

dementia@cheshire.oxy.edu (Daniel Steven Reinker) writes in

>The Xtians say Jesus died for our sins...but I don't buy it...I think
>humanity nailed him up there, then felt guilty about it afterwards and so
>that's our excuse.
>
>Hiz Lord Dementia

If what you believe is wrong, would you want to know about it?  Since this
is alt.satanism, an e-mail response will suffice.


Newsgroups: alt.satanism
From: alex@bilver.uucp (Alex Matulich)
Subject: Re: Lost Book of the Bible?
Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 22:38:04 GMT

That was interesting.  However, the list of biblical references to sources
that aren't in the Bible was missing one notable reference:  The Book of
Jasher (or Jashar).  This is a whole *book* that didn't make it into the
Bible, and it's mentioned twice in the Old Testament.

Can't remember the verses offhand.  Anybody have a cd-rom bible where they
can look it up?

-- 
 _ |__  Alex Matulich    alex.matulich@oau.org
 /(+__>  Unicorn Research Corp, 4621 N Landmark Dr, Orlando, FL 32817
//| \     UUCP:  alex@bilver.uucp   {peora|ge-dab|uunet!tous}!bilver!alex
///__)     Internet:  alex@bilver.oau.org | alex%bilver@peora.sdc.ccur.com
From: locklin@henry.ece.cmu.edu (Scott Locklin)
Subject: Re: Military and Satanic Organizations
Organization: Electrical and Computer Engineering, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 16:43:11 GMT

In article <1992Oct3.193519.1@ulkyvx.louisville.edu> rtsumn01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu writes:
>I'm posting for Scott; he's having trouble with the newserver again.
>
>--Semhaza
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>An interesting fact;
>Ever notice that both the founder of the Church of Satan (Anton LaVey) and
>the founder of the Temple of Set (Micheal Aquino) had police/military
>careers previous to their careers (and concurrent in Aquino's case I believe)
>as religious leaders? LaVey was a Police Photographer and Aquino was a
>Lieutenant Colonel in the army.
>Does anyone else see anything in this, or is it just me who sees the common
>thread of authoritarian/personal anarchy in the philosophy of these, the
>two biggest "Satanic" organizations...
>Hmmm. L.Ron Hubbard was _supposedly_ a navy fighter pilot (This is not clear)
>
>Anyone getting the picture yet. What is it that the military and religions
>have in common?
>
>thoughtfully yrs (under the elder sign)
>-Scott

To: <locklin@titan.ucc.umass.edu>
Subject: police, military, religion, etc.

To: >internet: locklin@titan.ucc.umass.edu

Scott, you wrote in alt.satanism:
>  LaVey was a Police Photographer...

A word of warning: While preparing _Rolling Stone_'s interview
with LaVey the investigative reporter Lawrence Wright tried to check
some of the claims ASLV made.

>From that article:
"According to the San Francisco Police Department, no one named
Howard or Anton LaVey or Levey ever worked for the force, nor does
City College [where ASLV claimed to have studied criminology] have a
record of his enrollment. Frank Moser, a retired police officer who
worked in the photo department during that time, says that LaVey
was never in that department under any name."

When LaVey found out that Lawrence Wright didn't just _believe_
him, he fretted, "I don't want the legend to disappear."

Feel free to post this to alt.satanism if you are so inclined. I haven't 
figured out any way to post to a newsgroup from CIS.
From: twisted@bessel.umd.edu (Rick MacKinnon)
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
Subject: All *NEW* Translation of _The Bible_
Date: 1 Oct 92 17:03:23 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland

Well, I've given up on the "Bobo the Clown Translation of _The Bible_
(Featuring the Word of God[tm])" (merely a short pamphlet, thus the quotes).
I've decided on a version of my own, picking up where _The Book_ left off.
I've come to the conclusion that we need a more simplified translation:

Genesis:
"See God.  God is good.  See God make the world.  Good, God, good.  God is
sleepy.  See God rest.  We want to be like God, don't we, boys and girls?
We should rest, too.

See God create Adam.  Poor Adam is lonely.  See Adam give God a rib.  See
God create Eve.  Good people wouldn't eat from the tree of knowledge, would
they, boys and girls?  See the snake.  Bad, snake, bad.  See the snake
talk to Eve.  See Eve eat the apple.  Bad, Eve, bad.  Women are bad, aren't
they, boys and girls?  See God punish Adam and Eve for breaking the rules."


John:
"See Jesus.  Jesus is the King of the Jews.  The Jews don't believe him.
Bad Jews.  See the Jews go to Hell.  See the Romans.  Bad Romans.  See
the Romans nail Jesus to a board.  Ouch, Jesus!  See Jesus die.  Poor
Jesus.  But look!  Three days go by, and Jesus is alive again!  Good
Jesus!  See Jesus take away all our sins.  We can do what we want to,
right boys and girls?"


I dunno, something seems missing.  Maybe a new modernized parable?

The Book of Falwell:
"See Jim Bakker.  Jim is a man of God.  Good, Jim, good.  See Jim with
a prostitute.  Bad, Jim, bad.  See Jim take money from little old ladies.
Poor little old ladies, they have nothing to eat!"

"See Dick.  Dick is a good Christian.  See Dick tell the non-believers
that they should be Christians, too.  See the non-believers slam the door
in Dick's face.  Bad, non-believers, bad.  That's OK, boys and girls,
the non-believers will go to Hell!  See Dick in Heaven.  See Dick get
an award for converting the most Christians!  Good, Dick, good!  We
want to be like Dick and get an award in Heaven, don't we boys and girls?"

Rev. Will Cheatem, from the new PTL group "Dewey, Cheatem & Howe"

"And the nurse will tell you lies
 Of the kingdom beyond the skies..."
                 -- Genesis, "The Musical Box", 1972
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
From: dementia@cheshire.oxy.edu (Daniel Steven Reinker)
Subject: Re: Jesus?
Organization: Occidental College, Los Angeles, CA 90041 USA.
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 06:58:19 GMT

In article <92275.81972.J024330@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM> J024330@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM writes:
>dementia@cheshire.oxy.edu (Daniel Steven Reinker) writes in
>Message-ID: <1992Oct1.231416.18381@cheshire.oxy.edu>
>
>>The Xtians say Jesus died for our sins...but I don't buy it...I think
>>humanity nailed him up there, then felt guilty about it afterwards and so
>>that's our excuse.
>>
>>Hiz Lord Dementia
>
>If what you believe is wrong, would you want to know about it?  Since this
>is alt.satanism, an e-mail response will suffice.
>
>
There is no way you could prove to me that this is wrong. You point to the
bible and say, look at this, you are wrong. I point to humanity, and say,
look at this, YOU are wrong. I am not willing to get into a battle of beliefs
since it is impossible to win.

Hiz Lord Dementia

-- 
"You can't help that. We're all mad here."-The cheshire cat, Alice in WL

"A mass hysteria/a megalomania/reveal Dementia/reveal"-Metallica                
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
From: timf@microsoft.com (Tim Fleehart)
Subject: Re: Ye Great Sinners
Date: 26 Sep 92 22:06:38 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article <15707@umd5.umd.edu> twisted@bessel.umd.edu (Rick MacKinnon) writes:
>I say this to you, not for any personal gain, but because, like Jesus, I love
>every one of you, and I only want the best for you.

Anyone ever wonder why these xian types are always trying to be like their
god?  Seems kind of strange...
From: J024330@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Subject: Re: Jesus?
Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space Company, Inc.
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 92 13:54:31 GMT

6500null@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu (Null Cypher) writes in


>I personally am having problems in determining what exactly the relevence
>of your question is.

Don't feel bad, it wasn't addressed to you.
From: J024330@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Subject: Re: Bible Fun Fact!
Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space Company, Inc.
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 13:47:46 GMT

saruman@cats.ucsc.edu (Friend of Entropy) writes in
>
>Hey, heres something i found tremendously interesting.
>
>Moses has horns.  Or was always portrayed as having horns in
>classical religious art until the late middle ages, because of a
>mis-translation of the bible.  A friend of mine learned of this
>in an art history class.

Care to elaborate a bit?
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
From: locklin@titan.ucc.umass.edu ()
Subject: Re: Satanism and Demon Summoning
Organization: Campus Crusade for Cthulhu
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 02:42:28 GMT
X-Posted-From: titan.ucc.umass.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <66836@cup.portal.com> Tagi@cup.portal.com (Tagi Mordred Nagashiva) writes:
>9209.29 e.v.

>+Psychosis less severe in cultures where God and Nature not separate?
>
>Yup.  The further from Nature you go for reverence, the more psychotic
>people become in the culture.  Modern Science isn't helping much.  Some
>of the Western poets are right on (Emerson, Blake, etc.).

Read Lovelock's Gaia hypothesis for science in tune with nature. Also read
Julian Jaynes,"The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral
Mind"- he asserts that we have only had the present state of consciousness
for around 5000 years; our ancestors were schitzo... Though provoking.
Also; most shamans in nature freindly cultures are, in psychological terms
psychotic, they just deal with it better than their urban counterparts.

>+3-fold Law of Return for Warnke's Satanism?
>
>No, I think that he gets it back because he is focussed (in BOTH his
>Satanism as 'Satanist' and his Satanism as 'Christian') on changing or
>warping the will of others.  Thus he gets beat up by the forces that
>be (largely his own mind) for doing such nasty stuff.

Thelemite!

architect of the Cthuloid apocalypse...
-Scott


Newsgroups: alt.satanism