From: CL234106@ulkyvx.louisville.edu (Y. CAO)
Subject: The Holocaust debate from an outsiders persepective.lstein Trial!
Organization: University of Louisville
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 10:56:03 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.11

In <1992Apr11.021305.664@oneb.wimsey.bc.ca> kmcvay@oneb.wimsey.bc.ca writes:

> In article <1992Apr10.075828.12911@midway.uchicago.edu> gross@befvax.uchicago.edu writes:
> 


I will include the last message that inspired this response <actually it was
inspired by an accumulation of several messages> below this one, so you can
refer to it.

The two sides of the Holocaust issue seem to be the represenitievs of Cpu, and
everyone else. One of the many ways I evaluate an arguement when dealing with
an issue I have never thought about before, is to look closely and see who is
presenting facts, and who is name calling. In most cases, the name callers are
doing so becasue they have nothing else to say. 
In this case however, the name callers are presenting new facts. The side that
is doing little or no persoanl attacks, is the side presetning no new facts,
not defending the arguments they make, and repeating the same thing over and
over with no additional info whatsoever.

I find both tactics unpleasent. Personally, I do wish that CPU would either
present a new fact, dispute some of the arguements made against them, post the
name and address of the people offereing money <50,000$> or shut the heck up.
I iwish the other side would continue to show the wholes in the arguement, and
quit using terms like Nazi trash and the like.

As a follower and fighter of Hemp prohibition, I can not instantly dispute the
idea of conspiracies and powerful corporations distoring the truth through
media. It happens everyday. I do however require their to be a motive, which
their isn't. I also knwo their are too many people alive who were alive in
World War two, who know the whole story. Many of those soldiers were there and
I do believe that even the best of conspiracies would have been untangled in
greater depth by now.

The fact that the same people who believe the holocaust didn't happen are also
nazi hate gropus (often) reinforces my belief that the holocaust did happen,
and that those groups are conspiring to invalidate the pain and suffereing of
"inferieor groups". Calling a Nazi a nazi is ok. Calling them scum proves
nothing. For one things, Nazi scum is redundant to most people. For another, it
only serves to show a lack of intellectual integrety on the part of the name
caller.

I *DO* happen to believe in freedom of speech, even in the case of hateful
speech. You cannot suppress thought. Any effort to suppress thought is
pointless and difficult. Those who name call and belittle others will
eventually show their mindless stupidity. 
One of the reasons Naziism and KKK movements are so strong in this country, is
because most people who are not a part of them, do not even believe they truly
exist anymore. They are made invisible, and yet they exist, permeating their
hate secretly and privately. Always skulking in the shadows. If it comes down
to a choice of having some one in front of me with a gun, or someone sneaking
up behind me, I would rather see what is going on, and know that it exists.

THis is a newsgroup for presenting facts. <as I see it>. Those of you who are
name calling are WEAKENING your position. I actually gave the Revisionists some
serious thought, mainly because of all the frightened name calling. I myself am
above that, and personaly believe that I am more mature then the people who
believe in religous conspiracies

I close by restating my request to each side.

Revisionists/CPu people: Please stop posting the same info over and over. I
Have already read it. It is still there to go back and read. Please tell
someone WHO is offering that moeny, and how one goes about collecting it. It
would add a great deal of creedence to your arguement. (Perhaps you are wating
for somoene to offer YOU money to prove such an offer exists)
ALso, you keep claiming people are misquoting you. Please state exactly how you
are being misquoted on a system that copies your messages verbatim.
 
Everyone else: You have the right to call names, but doing so only gives
creedence and power to those you attack. The reason I included the post below,
and the reason it set me off , is because it includes nothing but name calling.
NO facts about aushwitz, no more about the legal battles <which i found GREAT
reading btw> . Just belittling and name calling. This seems to be the most
common posting from "our side". 
I known next to nothing about history. SO I am judging this argument by the
facts presented here, and by the pictures I have seen. The person who mentioned
his aunt in WWII germany who barely escaped, the person who posted the legal
info, and the person who refuted the arguement aobut Jewish control of the
media are making valid points. 
The people who are name calling are showing me that Hate and blindness work
both ways. I feel like if their was a conspiracy, those parts of the arguement
would be no different. It proves nothing. SO please, stop making me feel like I
might be wrong. Because I agree with your insults, please stop making them.

Thank you.
A watchful eye, a reader of this newsgroup and
Tom Stevens <borrower of this account>



> >Maybe you don't understand English.  Danny's saying that he has 
> >something, that when Ralph reads it, it will show that Ralph
> >(the person who distributes anti-Semitic White-Supremicist) literature
> >is wrong, where Danny has been right all along.
> 
> Sigh.... ERROR 99 - READER CONFUSED!
> 
> Ralphie/Maynerd/Pfaust/RoxyDoxy/FlimFlam/trash isn't INTERESTED in:
> 
> 1. Reality
> 2. Honesty
> 3. Integrity
> 4. Truth
> 5. Freedom of anything, let alone truth
> 
> what you have here is pure, unadulterated, naked nazi trash. The input
> is shit, because the brain has atrophied from lack of exercise, and
> the output is also shit, for obvious reason - GIGO.
> 
> this is perhaps the most witless, worthless, unsubstantiated bullshit
> ever seen on the net - but consider the source - nazi trash, no matter
> how hard it tries to recycle itself as "turth", is still nazi trash.
> Nothing, absolutely NOTHING, can or will change that.
> 
> >Which strategy is it not to give ones real names, not to answer question,
> >to post the same garbabe over and over, to post advertisements as
> >if they were news?
> 
> the strategy of cowardice - nazi trash has ALWAYS hidden behind
> falsehoods - cowardice cannot survive any other way.
> 
> Cowards, liars, trash. It's all so simple, really.
> -- 
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