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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.allmusic
Date:         Wed, 6 Jan 1993 13:32:03 CST
From:         Paul Heroy <HEROY@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: MTV

On Wed, 6 Jan 1993 13:01:35 CST Leonard Watkins said:
>I have a question i don't watch MTV at all, but i noticed several post
>that mentioned Peter Gabrial being on MTV, I was under the impression (from
>some of the posts) that the Allmusic'rs were not approving of MTV artists

I think what's going on is that in any medium, you may find some quality,
even though most of the material is dreck (and copies of dreck). Gabriel puts
quality into both his music and his videos, so the fact that MTV plays his
stuff is sorta irrelevant. Top 40 radio plays his stuff, and I don't think
many folks here spend much time voluntarily listening to that. (Gawd, I was
forced to listen to a local 'adult contemporary' station for a while yesterday,
and it nearly drove me batshit.)

The pop music form, just like other musical forms, isn't inherently dain
bramaged, it's just that being the popular stuff it's the easiest thing for
those so afflicted to do.

Paul
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Date:         Fri, 8 Jan 1993 08:58:47 CST
From:         Dave <USTS060@RUST1.DPO.UAB.EDU>
Subject:      Re: MTV

 Date:          Fri, 8 Jan 1993 00:29:36 EST
 From:          spideroni <REWOICC%ERENJ.BITNET@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU>
 Subject:       Re: MTV

> Leonard Watkins sez:
> >The kind of videos i like are the live footage and and videos where the
> >artist are playing, don't care fot the "theme" type videos.
>
> i disagree. i find live footage stuff to be usually quite boring. in
> my opinion, a video should be a piece of film that tells reflects the
> lyrics and meaning of the song in a visual manner. as such, not all
> songs really deserve to have videos since some songs really don't have
> a story to tell.
>
> the only songs that deserve live footage are actual live recordings.
>
> woj

    Obviously, there are two schoools of thought here.  Personally
I'm torn between the two.  I enjoyed Mtv alot more when it was young.
In the early 80's videos were inovative.  There was a sense of
interpretation and an effort to make the video at least compliment
the song it was for.  I hate today's dance and concert type videos.
To me they lack all originality or creativity.
    On the other hand these interpretational videos can be very
constraining.  Music, like poetry, is often open to many and varied
interpretations.  What I may get out of "Radio, Radio" by Elvis
Costello is not necessarily what he or the director of a video may
get out it.  No one of us is necessarliy more right than the other,
just different.  But a video presents one and only one
interpretation.  Then on hearing that song again one remembers and
thinks of the interpretation presented them in the video, not the
original one found on the initial hearing.  In essence these videos
take away a vital part of listening--making your own interpretation
of the work.
======================================================================
Rev. Dave Hall                |  "It's not the voting that's
usts060@rust1.dpo.uab.edu     |   democracy, it's the counting.
                              |     -- Tom Stoppard
======================================================================
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Date:         Fri, 8 Jan 1993 10:30:33 PDT
From:         David Malbuff <SPGDAM@UCCVMA.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Stubb (a dub)

On Fri, 8 Jan 1993 09:44:44 PST Mike Masuda said:
>All this talk about drugs, here's a scenario:
>
>If we legalise pot in the US,
>how will it affect "coffee breaks"?

Some people drink booze on the job. A similar percentage will probably smoke
pot on the job.

>Anyways, I saw Primus and Mr Bungle on New Year's Eve, and it was
>pretty weird stuff.  Bungle didn't play their best stuff, and the
>highlight was of great shock value.  The lead singer took off his
>rotten sneaker, pulled out his penis, and proceeded to urinate into
>the shoe.  He then lifted the shoe above his head and drank the urine.
>He then threw the shoe out into the pit.  Primus just put on a good,
>fun show.

Sounds like G.G. Allin has some competition, if he hasn't electrocuted
himself yet or something. I feel like a sheltered innocent; I've seen blood
and vomit on stage, but not (yet) piss or shit. And to think... people
thought it was outrageous when Alice Cooper was "hanged" onstage, or when
ol' Ozzy Osbourne decapitated a few chickens, or when Sid Vicious carved
"GIMME A FIX" on his chest with a knife. Tame stuff, man. To be fair, though,
I haven't heard Mr Bungle's music, so I can't comment on it.

Now for some good news. Got a call from Marco last night. What a neat
surprise! He's in Salt Lake and... he's got a US distribution deal!
TNR releases should now be finding their way into Tower Records and
other worthy stateside emporia. I'm sure everyone on ALLMUSIC joins me
in congratulating Marco.  He will be continuing on to the Bay Area, and
arriving here on Saturday. Boston next week.

David
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Date:         Fri, 8 Jan 1993 16:46:16 EST
From:         Ken Koester <MAINT2@ERS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Ken's control

On Fri, 8 Jan 1993 16:46:11 -0500 <HLC2@PSUADMIN> said:
>Like I said, lay it on me. If a man's lack of control concerned me, I wouldn't
>have graduated from Penn State. ;-)
>
>Heather

As soon as I can figure out whether it's me or Penn State you've insulted...(-:
No, I better quit while I can still give--I mean, while I'm still ahead (-:
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Date:         Tue, 5 Jan 1993 09:17:18 CST
From:         Dave <USTS060@RUST1.DPO.UAB.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Catching Up From the Holidays

 From:          spideroni <REWOICC%ERENJ.BITNET@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU>
 Subject:       Re: Catching Up From the Holidays

> there was an article in newsweek recently about riot grrrls, which ties into
> this pretty well. anyone see it? i just heard about it. the newsweek subscrip-
> tion ran out a half year ago.
>
> woj

    I didna see the newsweek article but I did see a similar one in
the November, 1992 issue of Spin.  Sounds like a good idea to me.

======================================================================
Rev. Dave Hall                |  "It's not the voting that's
usts060@rust1.dpo.uab.edu     |   democracy, it's the counting.
                              |     -- Tom Stoppard
======================================================================
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Date:         Fri, 8 Jan 1993 15:48:02 EST
From:         Adam Levin <Adam.Levin@LAMBADA.OIT.UNC.EDU>
Subject:      Re: LW's copying query
              at Jan 8, 93 01:37:01 pm

> Do you sometimes feel guilty when you copy something, like your ripping off
> the artists, keeping them from some of their royalties. If someone was copying
> your stuff without paying for it, would it bother you. To be honest it kinda
> bothers me sometimes, especially artists that need support. How do you feel.?

I only condone the copying of records/cd/tapes in the case of out of print
material. The artist is trying to make a living. If you like their music,
you should pay for it.

In the case of the compilation tape. If I find there is something that I
like I will buy the original.

 -Adam
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Date:         Thu, 7 Jan 1993 09:16:53 PST
From:         Mike <MASUDA@SJSUVM1.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: MTV

Okay, so maybe there's some redeeming qualities
to MTV, according to LW, but I think the format can
be OH SO BETTER, if they would open their puny little minds
 a little bit more.

The Unplugged idea is cool, I wish they would have more interesting
groups there to play, and more often.

How about some classical jazz pieces?
More footage from, say, Weather Report, or perhaps Toto (nod to Drummer)?

Liquid Television is cool, if they could show more of the innovative stuff.
"Dog Boy" bites.

 3
M
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Date:         Tue, 12 Jan 1993 08:23:46 CST
From:         Leonard Watkins <ISTS024@UABDPO.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Hang The World: Musician flirts with the flame game

On Tue, 12 Jan 1993 07:03:09 EST <MMORSE@YORKVM1> said:
>Island Collection," and all their cousins a HUGE fucking rest? Can anyone
>name ONE single POSITIVE accomplishment of this weenie-wagging foolishness?
>(Ah-HUH! I thought not..)

Glad you asked ...I was turned on to Miles  Davis, Hank Crawford, and have
more respect for Peter Gabrial, I have realized that alot of people Live &
breathe music. Most of all i've got to netverse with several very intelligent
people and have seen alot of different perspectives on a variety of subjects
Let me know if you need more..........L.W.
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From: hjv@phil.ruu.nl (Hendrik Jan Veenstra)
Subject: Re: Silkscreen Speaker
Organization: Department of Philosophy, University of Utrecht, The Netherlands
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 21:06:52 GMT

Leonard Watkins <ISTS024@UABDPO.BITNET> writes:

>I'm gonna re-cover my speaker grilles on my house speakers and i got to
>thinking about putting a design on the grilles, has anyone ever heard of
>this ?

Funny idea... but I would not put a conventional picture on it, but something
abstract.  IMO 'normal' pictures tend to becoming boring after a while -- at
least more so than abstract pictures.  Make it something 'quiet' -- e.g.
Rothko-like (big fuzzy colour-planes, preferably in earth-colours).
I could make them for you (I happen to be a painter too...), but I'm afraid
you can't afford my prices... :-)

happy painting...
Hendrik Jan

--
Hendrik Jan Veenstra    hjv@phil.ruu.nl  *  How can I save my dreams
Dept. of Philosophy                      *  in the nightmare, in the flood
University of Utrecht                    *  But I try.
The Netherlands                          *
From: ujwb@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Jeff Beer)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.allmusic
Subject: Re: tous les matins du monde
Date: 10 Jan 93 21:22:57 GMT
Organization: Educational Computing Network
NNTP-Posting-Host: uxa.ecn.bgu.edu

In article <ALLMUSIC%93010811112736@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU> Early Music List <EARLYM-L@AEARN.BITNET> writes:
>Well, Jeff, what do you have to say to the man? (-:

>who know him say that his arrogance and his masterful but cool technique
>made him a natural.  And who better for les filles de St Colombe than
>the group, "Les Filles de St Colombe"?  OK, it would take an
>imaginative makeup artist to turn Mary Springfels into a nymphet,
>but when she plays she has this St. Cecelia radiance which transcends
>mere appearance.  The movie was about just that radiance, so it
>really needed skilled players to make it work.

They should have got Keith Jarrett, so he could make all the moans and
groans.

>For me anyway.  Mary herself enjoyed it immensely.  But she noted that
>she often had to close her eyes.

There you go.

Jeff
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Date:         Wed, 6 Jan 1993 12:37:48 EST
From:         Sonia Kovitz <skovitz@MAGNUS.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU>
Subject:      Re: tous les matins du monde
              Beer" at Jan 6, 93 2:22 pm

>
> Well, Harpo Marx is dead.  Seriously, what do you want?  You aren't


Ah Jeff, don't worry.  The same psychic who got letters from John Wayne, John
Lennon and Marilyn ALSO got some music for harp dictated by Harop.

And here's my follow-up on Mozart:  I forgot to include the captions under the
photos: "Modern groups like Bill Haley and the Comets brought about rebirth[!]
of rock" and then under a lithograph of Wolfgang: "Mozart abandoned rock after
his first tune."

The work was meant to be performed by a four-man group of musicians playing two
guitars, a cello and a flute.

Lyrics (I kid you not):

One, two, three of the clock,
and it's time to rock,
rock around the Kaiser,
that old miser.

Four, five, six of the clock,
dear lady can we talk,
talk about me and you,
and the things we'll do.

Seven, eight, nine of the clock,
let's go for a walk,
walk around the old dock,
and then down to the park.

Ten, eleven, twelve of the clock,
and we're still gonna rock,
cuz rock and roll
will go, go, go!

------
I refuse to pass judgment until I see the original German lyrics.  I wonder if
our Invisible-Man-Absentee-Funny-Man Rick can in his sly scholarly way
unearth them.  Maybe Russ's band could work this thing up...?

Madame Sonia "Psychic and Music Historian for the Masses"
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Date:         Fri, 8 Jan 1993 11:08:18 PST
From:         Mike <MASUDA@SJSUVM1.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: One-hit wonders

Tiny Tim "Tiptoe Through the Tulips"
and most of those novelty hits that
Dr Dimento likes to play.

Mike
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Date:         Thu, 7 Jan 1993 10:08:54 EST
From:         SWASEY@PORTLAND.BITNET
Subject:      Re: MTV

Well I think MTV as its own pure concept isn't necessarily a bad one.
It potentially can give an artist an opportunity to express him/herself
or his/her music in a new/different way.  I think the problem lies in
what MTV has become.  It tends to be, in my opinion, a shallow,
trendsetting, mess of conformity.  Someone like Peter Gabriel uses
a music video for all the right reasons, in my opinion.  But then you
have your bands/"artists" who have been CREATED by MTV.  I guess you have
to wonder if they or their music could stand on its own without the
kick in the pants it gets from MTV promotion.

But I can and do really enjoy some of the more creative videos
by solid artists.


janet
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Date:         Wed, 6 Jan 1993 18:37:00 PST
From:         Mike Masuda <MASUDA@SJSUVM1.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: i'm goin' down to cali... to cali... to cali...

Celtic Festival?
Sorry Carol, but I don't know of any ritual around here.

But I will let you know if there is one.  I'll ask around.
A friend of mine has great interest in all that's Celtic
(and I don't mean the Boston basketball team)
and I will ask him for ya.

Miggul Methuda, I thay wif a mouful of corn nuth.  (munch munch)
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Date:         Mon, 11 Jan 1993 14:06:49 CST
From:         Leonard Watkins <ISTS024@UABDPO.BITNET>
Subject:      Preserve it (non-musical)

Last night my friend showed me a newspaper that she had (only front page)
that was from May 1922 and it's great it has Rudolf Valentino going to
court for bigamy, Babe Ruth hitting a homer and the one i find most
interesting is Thomas A. Edison going b4 the senate to talk about a way
to make cheaper fertilizer (I promise). How do you preserve this can you
"clean it" it's falling to pieces we're gonna have to spray with something
to preserve it............L.W.
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Organization: K.U.Leuven - Academic Computing Center
Date:         Tue, 12 Jan 1993 12:15:30 +01
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From:         GGAEEFJ@CC1.KULEUVEN.AC.BE
Subject:      CURE mailinglist ?

Is there any mailinglist for the cure ? please mail me personnaly since I don't
 read netnews very often.
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Date:         Mon, 11 Jan 1993 12:53:00 CST
From:         I'm a lumberjack and I'm OK <CV01@SWTEXAS.BITNET>
Subject:      _Love Devotion Surrender_ redux

>Date:         Thu, 7 Jan 1993 08:38:33 GMT
>From:         michael bruce mcdonald <s1mbm@ISUVAX.IASTATE.EDU>
>Subject:      RE: _Love, Devotion and Surrender_
>
>
>
>Paul, I'm a bit disappointed that Chuck called this recording self-indulgent.
>I listened to it again recently after not hearing it for many years, and
>found that the playing magnificent, with JM and Santana spurring each other
>on to incredible effect.  Frankly, I have never heard Santana play better
>solos than on this recording.
>
>michael mcdonald

michael,

   Sorry I didn't reply to this sooner -- I was flat on my back last
Thursday and Friday (hi, Carol!  :*)

   First, apologies for a couple of mistakes I made -- there are no commas
or "and"'s in the title (it's _Love Devotion Surrender_).  Secondly, it's
Sri "Chi*nm*oy" not "Chi*mn*oy".  OK, now the nits have been picked -- on
to the music.
   After my initial response to Paul, I was compelled to listen to the
recording again.  While I'll stick to my original statement, I may need to
explain it a bit further.  Michael is right about the wonderful soloing on
the disc.  Mc and Santana do a nice job with _A Love Supreme_ and _Naima_,
but _The Life Divine_ strikes me as a weak attempt to create a "spiritual
cousin" to _ALS_ (even down to the use of chants).  The guitar-playing is
fine, but you'd be better served by listening to the real thing as
performed by Coltrane or Pharoah Sanders.
   Lest you think I'm dismissing this recording completely, I'm not saying
that a little self-indulgence is necessarily bad.  To be honest, my
favorite tune on the recording is probably the most self-indulgent of all:
_Let Us Go Into The House Of The Lord_ (all 15:00+ of it).  But even that
tune probably wouldn't have suffered if it had been only 7 or 8 minutes
long.  I've already stated that I think Santana's playing was greatly
improved during the time he worked with Mc.  However, beyond that, I'm just
trying to be up-front about the atmosphere of the recording -- it was
basically a "duelling guitars" session with a spiritual facade.


      bye,
      cmv ("slow-moving chuck with a bad back")
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Date:         Mon, 11 Jan 1993 09:52:10 CST
From:         Leonard Watkins <ISTS024@UABDPO.BITNET>
Subject:      James Cotton

James Cotton is a legend he played with the Muddy Waters Band at one time
(which is considered by those in-the-know as the best blues band ever), he's
not Little Walter, but he's good. His album Mighty Long Time is very good
he surrounds hisself with good musicians and thats what makes the album so
good...........L.W.
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Organization:      LOGISTICS INFORMATION CENTER (IC-LOG)
Motto:          FIRST LINE TECHNICAL SUPPORT
Telephone:                 768-8074/8180
FAX:                   768-7106
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Date:         Fri, 8 Jan 1993 16:24:36 KST
From:         DMetcalf%IC-LOG@WALKER-LTT.ARMY.MIL
Subject:      IN A FUNK!

Yeah, 'tis yer' friendly 'ROTCOD', & I'm not (actually) in a phunk atoll,
after spottin' alla those 'noms' fer' 'funkiest' poster... on th' other
digit, I must agree that Sonia prob'ly should take the category AWAY!

I'll get backatcha with my noms this weekend sometime!

ZZAJ
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Date:         Wed, 6 Jan 1993 11:50:59 EST
From:         Ken Koester <MAINT2@ERS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: distinctively speaking

On Wed, 6 Jan 1993 10:52:48 EST spideroni said:
>
>i would also say that part of the burden rests on the listener as well.
>ken mentioned that he couldn't distinguish between rappers, yet there is
>a wide spectrum of rappers from the suburban lightweights to the hardcore
>militants which someone who knows rap will be able to notice differences
>in. someone who doesn't like female vocalists is just as likley to say
>that suzanne vega and sara k are similar since they don't know about the
>two singers and really couldn't care less. so there is a strong element
>of knowledge and appreciation in there as well.
>
>woj

Ah, but to play the game correctly, you have to discard lyrics (too easy a
tipoff to the song title), and you have to Get It Right in under 6 notes (-:

Distinctions are everywhere, but what was really grabbing me was a distinction
with a difference:  a uniqueness such that the correct association pops out by
reflex.  If someone can do that with rap, hey, more power to 'em.

I don't
know that I would call it a "burden" on the listener.  It's definitely a
relationship between the listener and the sound.  It doesn't necessarily
mean appreciation, I feel; I've gotten the reflex about any number of songs
that simply aren't all that good.  Contrariwise, although I am very good at
picking out classical style and even composer, I can't usually do this trick
on so little evidence--if nothing else, I can't remember all the numbers--
but the music is much more complicated in structure with fewer repeats, so
you have to absorb much more before it internalizes that far down.  I've
listened to so much Bach I can probably tell you it's Bach on 6 notes, but
I couldn't tell Chopin from Liszt, or Mozart from Haydn, that way.

What's *really* freaky is to listen *once*--and get the reflex.  I suppose
there are such people, phonographic ear and such; I wonder what it is that
they are hearing.
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From: lfinkelstein@vax.clarku.edu
Subject: RE: santa cums through
Organization: Clark University
Date: 4 JAN 93 06:35:01 GMT

In a previous article, watson@HG.ULETH.CA (Thumper) wrote:
>Well... there you have it...
> 
>I got my CD player...  :)
>(and another cassette deck too -- i wuzza good girl)
> 
>Ok... now it's hooked up, but there's one small problem:  I don't own a
>single CD as yet.  I'm about to correct that problem and want to know from
>you guys the following:  What CD should have the dubious honor of deflowering
>my CD player and why?  I don't want it to be something you already know I
>own on cassette either...  :)
> 
>Thanks!
>Carol


Sgt. Pepper.   No doubt about it.  :-)


	Loren Finkelstein
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Date:         Tue, 12 Jan 1993 13:17:00 EST
From:         MCINTYRE@MSUPA.BITNET
Subject:      New Age Van der Graaf Generator

While I was home over Christmas, I spent some time (and way too much
money) in the local Tower Records.  I was amused to find that while
Peter Hammill was filed under Rock, Van der Graaf Generator was nestled
in the New Age bin.  Ah, the thought of some yuppie putting on his
headphones and leaning back in his hot tub listening to the soothing
sounds of _Pawnhearts_. 8-)  What choice is there left but to die, indeed.

John McIntyre
Physics - Astronomy Dept
Michigan State University
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Date:         Mon, 11 Jan 1993 07:31:24 EST
From:         spideroni <REWOICC@ERENJ.BITNET>
Subject:      boiled alive

Thumper sez:
>I need Robin Anders and his dumbek... right here... right now... naked.  He's
>the best thing about BiL, IMHO (In My Horny Opinion).

speaking of which...

i finally got around to listening to the _boiled alive '92_ cassette that
they released last year. i don't even remember when i got it, but it fell
behind a bunch of books on the floor and i completely forgot about it until
i unearthed it when cleaning the house last week.

the recording is a little muddy, but the performance is spirited which more
or less makes up for it. they seemd a little rough on this tape though, as
if they were slightly out of practice. i did enjoy the noisier bits on the
electric side - the sides are labelled "a" for acoustic and "e" for electric,
though the distinction is rather vague at times. expensive tape though...

woj
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