From: crs@beta.lanl.gov (Charlie Sorsby)
Subject: Re: Wolves! They're back?
Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory
Date: 4 Jan 93 08:40:46 CST
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu

In article <1992Dec30.144404.5723@doug.cae.wisc.edu> cvacura@uswat.uswest.com (V) writes:
= Matt Rein writes:
= >BTW, we hunt deer in and out of wolf country here in MN.  The hunting is
= >the same in both places as far as I can tell.  
= 
= I have to disagree with that.  This last season some wolves moved into
= one of our hunting areas in Northern Minnesota.  We saw 10 deer on
= opening day, 2 deer and a set of wolf tracks on Sunday morning (BTW
= one of the deer was running from a swamp for no apparent reason??),
= more wolf tracks on Monday and nary a deer for the rest of the season.

I think it was very nice of the wolves to wait for deer season to
take out all the deer.  :)

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

But, more seriously, while wolves almost certainly do engage in
deer predation, one must also consider that it is not at all
unusual for deer populations in a hunted area to decline rapidly as
the season progresses--not only due to the taking of deer but to
their moving out of hunted areas to safer environs.

Regardless of one's views about wolves, it behooves all of us to
keep in mind that wild populations of all species depend on many
factors; to guard against making unwarranted inferences based on
insufficient evidence, especially when existing beliefs are
involved (e.g. "Wolves will decimate deer populations").

Please note:  I'm not saying that Craig is guilty of any of those
things--only reminding everyone that, as the wolf discussion
progresses, we must make every effort *not* to succumb to these
failures to consider all the possible factors, not only those that
fit our own beliefs.

= Fortunately, we have other land to hunt and we filled up.  The other
= hunters we know who stayed went 1 for 6.
= 
= About 10 years ago, one of the last times I hunted there before
= moving, I saw 38 deer the first weekend.  That is an incredible number
= for MN whitetail.  The next weekend all we saw were a few sets of wolf
= tracks.

This further suggests what I mentioned after my initial tongue-in-
cheek comment.  Do you really believe that the wolves suddenly
decimated the "incredible number" of deer during the first week of
deer season?  Isn't it far more likely that the deer simply moved
out as the hunters moved in?

I'm sorry but I find it hard to imagine that you would start deer
season with what you describe as an "incredible number" of deer
only to have that population suddenly decimated by wolves during
that first week.  Why didn't the wolves decimate the population the
week before the season opened?  Or the month before?

What coincides with the opening of deer season?  Not wolf predation
--that occurs year round.  Could it be hunting pressure?  This is
the very thing that I'd like everyone to think about.  Keep in mind
the following questions:

	"Does my interpretation of my observations make sense?"

	"Am I considering *all* of the data?"

	"Do I, conciously or unconciously, have an ax to grind?"

	"Would the data be the same if I (and my fellow hunters)
	were absent?"

Well, you get the idea.  You can extend the list of questions
yourselves.

= >As far as I'm concerned, there is nothing more exciting than seeing a wolf
= >out in the wild or hearing thier calls at night.
= 
= I agree.  I'd love to see a wolf.  Up until the mid 80's my
= grandfather was the only one I knew who had seen many Timber wolves in
= the area.  He was one of the 'local yocals' who would shoot a wolf on
= sight if he could.  They would even gut shoot them so they wouldn't
= die close by and leave evidence. Either grandpa was quiet about it or
= he never got a chance to shoot at one that I know of.  The last few

For an interesting and readable account of how wolves have been
treated, not only in the US but throughout the world, I recommend
_Of Wolves And Men_ by Barry Holstun Lopez.  My paperback is from
Charles Scribner's Sons, New York, ISBN 0-684-16322-5.  It's a good
read.

= years wolves have become much more prevalent.  My father has seen
= wolves a half dozen times and has even seen pups.
[....]
= Anyway, I think there's room for both of us as long as wolves are
= managed like any other animal.  There are certainly enough deer.  If
[....]

Agreed!  A point that too many fail to consider is that we no
longer have, nor will we ever have again in my opinion, a truly
balanced ecosystem in most of the western world.  Man's impact has
been felt and will continue to be felt regardless of hunting.  In
all but the few (if any) true wilderness areas, I simply don't
believe that it is possible to let nature take its course to
restore the balance that is long gone.  "Progress" has gone too far
for that.  If we try, we are likely to see the kind of
overpopulation that some eastern areas are experiencing with deer
with resulting decimation of habitat followed by serious, if not
final, decimation of wildlife.  Management--conservation--is
essential to continued existence of species in the modern world.

Anyway, man as a predator is, and has always been, a natural part
of ecosystems; man as a perpetrator of "progress" is not.


= Just my few bits worth on a favorite subject.

Me too...


-- 
Best,

Charlie "Older than dirt" Sorsby				"I'm the NRA!"
	  crs@lanl.gov


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