HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: andy@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Andy Michael USGS Guest)
Subject: Re: The VAN Method
Organization: Stanford Univ. Earth Sciences
Distribution: ca
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 18:31:32 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.151641.847@unocal.com> stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini) writes:
>In article <cf#n2g-.bverreau@netcom.com> bverreau@netcom.com (stargazer) writes:
>> "Each of these stations consists of at least two sensors, one oriented
>>  north-south and the other east-west.  The principle of these sensors
>>  is very simple:  two electrodes buried in the ground several dozen,
>>  hundred, or even a thousand feet apart, connected by a conductive wire
>>  to a voltage amplifier and a chart recorder."
>
>This method has been tried in the US in the 1970s by Prof Gene Simmons (formaerly of MIT)
>and Malcolm Johnson of the Western USGS.  They looked at magnetotellurics
>and magnetics somewhere along the San Andreas.  They did not see much,
>probably because it was a guiet period.
The VAN method is measuring self-potential, this is different than
magnetotellurics or straight magnetics.  Self-potential is simply
the voltage between the two electrodes.  It is one of the easiest
measurements to make but one of the hardest to interpret, at least
when using it to find buried ore bodies.

>Agreed.  However, very few geophysicists in the US receive training in electrical
>methods anymore, so the authors are likely to be experts as anyone else.
>Of three prominent schools I attended- MIT, Harvard, and
>Stanford- only Stanford had some training in electrical methods and that was
>only for a couple of weeks.
A nit, after you left MIT the field geophysics course started up and
covered electrical methods in detail.  UC Riverside must have some courses
on this too as Steve Park is there.

>These methods are rarely talked about at major geophysics conventions.
There was a electrical methods for earthquake prediction session last
year at the Fall American Geophyiscal Union meeting.

Andy
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
From: karn@servo.qualcomm.com (Phil Karn)
Subject: Re: Shaking Buildings w/o Earthquakes
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc
Distribution: ca
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 15:50:30 GMT


Richter in his book says that even gunfire (presumably artillery) has
also registered at significant distances on seismographs in California
due to the sometimes unusual atmospheric conditions here. I presume he
means that inversion layers can form that refract sound back down to the
surface.

Phil
From: tpickett@auspex.com (Tom Pickett)
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
Subject: Re: Power LInes
Date: 20 Aug 92 18:10:45 GMT
Reply-To: tpickett@auspex.com (Tom Pickett)
Organization: Auspex Systems, Inc.  Engineering

In article <170gqoINNrsr@network.ucsd.edu>, gribskov@sdsc.edu (Michael 
Gribskov) writes:
> I'm certainly a non-expert, but I recall reading of several incidents where 
people
> were killed by walking on the ground in the vicinity of downed power lines, 
with no 
> contact with the power line itself.  Apparently the voltage drop is such 
that you may 
> have enough potential difference between your left and right feet that 
substantial
> current will flow through your body.  Personally, I vote to stay in the car 
if possible
> until given the all clear.

I'm certainly no expert either, but one night I was covering an airplane
crash in San Jose and I took my photos on the scene and was walking out
of the crash scene.  Pacific Gas and Electric was there as the plane had
taken out some High voltage towers (you know the really big towers). As
I stepped over one of them I remember thanking God they were all turned 
off, and 10 feet beyond that the line whipped up, struck a metal fence and
lit the sky up quite effectively.  Outside of aging about 10 years
instantly, I was not affected in any way.

I think you need some sort of conductive medium to be electrocuted
simply being near the power cable.  I also think I'm very lucky.


Tom Pickett 
tpickett@auspex.com
SHO  GOZE
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
From: rob_hawley@taligent.com (Rob Hawley)
Subject: Re: Running out of the building
Followup-To: ca.earthquakes
Organization: Taligent Inc.
Distribution: ca
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 17:12:17 GMT

In article <51093@seismo.CSS.GOV>, stead@skadi.CSS.GOV (Richard Stead)
wrote:
> 
> In article <Bt5nLL.GJv@well.sf.ca.us>, casey@well.sf.ca.us (Kathleen Creighton) writes:
> 
> The point is, by far the most dangerous area in a quake is just outside any
> building (on any side, not just where the door is). 

I can give you a personal example to reinforce this point.  During the Loma
Prieta quake, one of our senior managers tried to exit through an emergency
exit.  Fortunately for her it was jammed since a window fell right outside
the door seconds after she had tried to use it. 
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
From: shla@spf.trw.com (Sheila Wallace)
Subject: Re: Personal Tales of Big Earthquakes
Organization: TRW Data Systems Center, Redondo Beach, CA
Distribution: ca
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 00:31:47 GMT

In article <694G03fi60tw00@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com> jgt10@uts.amdahl.com ( KD6KID) writes:
>
>I can also remember driving to work from Danville the next week getting
>sick and tired of KCBS and the other stations talking about the way things
>we so bad.  "So bad!  I've got to go to work.  Will you guys shut about
>the quake and tell me what is going on in the rest of the world!"  They
>didn't hear me.
>
So the Bay Area media does this too?  I'm tired of turning on the local
news and hearing about 'another 3.5 aftershock hit Big Bear today...'
They all know by now that there will be thousands of aftershocks this 
size.  One of the stations now has a 'SeismoCam' -- a dedicated
video camera glued to a seismograph ready to catch the smallest
wiggle of the needle.  It's nice to be informed, but this is a bit much.

Sheila
-- 
Sheila Wallace		(shla@spf.trw.com)
TRW, One Space Park, R2/2162, Redondo Beach, CA 90278
From: stead@skadi.CSS.GOV (Richard Stead)
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
Subject: Re: Shaking Buildings w/o Earthquakes
Date: 21 Aug 92 19:23:56 GMT
Distribution: ca

In article <1992Aug21.155030.9464@qualcomm.com>, karn@servo.qualcomm.com (Phil Karn) writes:
> 
> Richter in his book says that even gunfire (presumably artillery) has
> also registered at significant distances on seismographs in California

Since we tend to bury seismometers and try to isolate them from the atmosphere,
they're not the best for registering this.  What's best is folks that have
sliding glass doors facing San Clemente Island in Orange County.  They can't
hear the shots, but the glass rattles, and then they call Caltech to see if
there was a quake.


--
Richard Stead
Center for Seismic Studies
Arlington, VA
stead@seismo.css.gov
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
From: karn@chicago.qualcomm.com (Phil Karn)
Subject: Re: Personal Tales of Big Earthquakes
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc
Distribution: ca
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 04:05:48 GMT

In article <183120@pyramid.pyramid.com> lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell) writes:
>    Ya ever get the feeling some TV stations could trivialize
>    creation or judgement day?  

Yup. One of my favorite "Shoe" cartoons from some years back has him in
couch potatoe :-) mode. The newscaster breaks in: "Soviet tanks are rolling
down the New Jersey Turnpike. Details at 11."

I don't know how people like Kate Sutton can put up with the media and
their inane questions every time there's a significant earthquake here.
They must get coaching....right?

Phil

Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
From: krissie@locus.com (Krissie Griffiths)
Subject: Re: Personal Tales of Big Earthquakes
Organization: Locus Computing Corporation, Los Angeles, California
Distribution: ca
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 22:19:48 GMT

In article <2A9044F4.17B1@deneva.sdd.trw.com> shla@spf.trw.com (Sheila Wallace) writes:
>>
>So the Bay Area media does this too?  I'm tired of turning on the local
>news and hearing about 'another 3.5 aftershock hit Big Bear today...'
>They all know by now that there will be thousands of aftershocks this 
>size.  One of the stations now has a 'SeismoCam' -- a dedicated
>video camera glued to a seismograph ready to catch the smallest
>wiggle of the needle.  It's nice to be informed, but this is a bit much.

and for those of us who (have their e.q. kit ready to go) but are still scared 
out of their jockey shorts at the slightest movement, real or imagined, the
slightest sound, real or imagined, the media here in l.a. is causing me and
probably other cowards a lot of grief, and lost sleep.  

if you choose to watch the ll p.m. new and then go to bed after hearing about
yet again another aftershock, all the e.q. demons come creeping back.  and
with it being so hot, as the night goes on and things cool down, the houses
creak.  oh great :-(



-- 
so what if i am a vegan?  so what if i try to live a cruelty free lifestyle?
i'll tell you what, i sleep better at night knowing that nothing suffers for
anything i eat or wear and i try to use products that have not involved been
tested on animals.  i can't cure all the world's ills, but i'm doing a
From: stead@skadi.CSS.GOV (Richard Stead)
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
Subject: Re: Questions raised by SoCal Activity
Keywords: usgs refs, landers
Date: 18 Aug 92 20:29:49 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.222357.23416@nas.nasa.gov>, eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya) writes:
> Bob Sharp's K/H Series of geology field guide (pink cover) and that yellow
> covered guide (I forget the author).  Far better to see some of this stuff
> in the field.

The yellow guide is N. CA and the author is John Harbaugh.
Bob Sharp has a second K/H guide (this one is green) on Coastal S. CA.


--
Richard Stead
Center for Seismic Studies
Arlington, VA
stead@seismo.css.gov
From: robin@fisher.bio.uci.edu (Robin Bush)
Subject: Re: Power LInes
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
Reply-To: robin@fisher.bio.uci.edu
Date: 18 Aug 92 23:13:47 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.142746.533@spacm1.spac.spc.com>  
iccsap020@spacm1.spac.spc.com (David Cohen) writes:
> I have an earthquake pamphlet that says that if a power line falls on
> your car during a quake, not to worry.  You are safe in your car.
> What it doesn't say is when, if ever, you can get out of your car.
> Does anyone know?


I think it is because  the current can't travel on through the rubber  
tires, and there is no "current" unless it is flowing (someone more  
technical please spruce this up).  

I wanted to put in my two-bits on this as I used to work with a guy who  
knew this very fact, but  ignored it after (drunkenly) hitting a  
high-tension power line in his '57 Corvette. He just HAD to get out to see  
how bad the Corvette looked.  The guys who stayed in the car lived to tell  
about seeing Harry turn into a pile of charcoal. 

----------------------------------------------------------
Robin
From: tpickett@auspex.com (Tom Pickett)
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
Subject: Re: Power LInes
Date: 19 Aug 92 14:47:06 GMT
Reply-To: tpickett@auspex.com (Tom Pickett)
Organization: Auspex Systems, Inc.  Engineering

In article <2A91842B.3784@orion.oac.uci.edu>, robin@fisher.bio.uci.edu (Robin 
Bush) writes:
> I think it is because  the current can't travel on through the rubber  
> tires, and there is no "current" unless it is flowing (someone more  
> technical please spruce this up).  

Actually, the reason you are safe in a car not only with power lines
but also with lightening, is because the electricity can easily flow
to ground through the car with little resistance.  This is why in 
aircraft there are small wires interconnecting the various parts 
of the airframe allowing an easy path through the aircraft and then 
to ground.  On aircraft constructed of composites, there are wire
meshes embedded in the composite surface to allow an easy conductance
through the structure to ground.


Tom Pickett 
tpickett@auspex.com
SHO  GOZE
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: Questions raised by SoCal Activity
Keywords: usgs refs, landers
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 06:51:33 GMT

In article <51092@seismo.CSS.GOV> stead@skadi.CSS.GOV (Richard Stead) writes:
>In article <1992Aug17.222357.23416@nas.nasa.gov>,
eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya) writes:
>> Bob Sharp's K/H Series of geology field guide (pink cover) and that yellow
>> covered guide (I forget the author).  Far better to see some of this stuff
>> in the field.

>The yellow guide is N. CA and the author is John Harbaugh.
>Bob Sharp has a second K/H guide (this one is green) on Coastal S. CA.

Actually Harbaugh is just another K/H series.
At home now, It's the "Roadside Geology of XXX" series by Mountain Press
Publishing.  One would want RG of Northern CA, which I don't have.
Harbaugh is a good book, but you want Sharp's trip up 395 to see
things like the 1872 scarp outside Lone Pine (Richard knows this) so this
is rhetorical.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
From: Harv@cup.portal.com (Harv R Laser)
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
Subject: Re: Personal Tales of Big Earthquakes
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 92 19:00:13 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: ca
  <1992Aug14.153706.3852@wdl.loral.com>
  <694G03fi60tw00@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com> <2A9044F4.17B1@deneva.sdd.trw.com>

>>
>So the Bay Area media does this too?  I'm tired of turning on the local
>news and hearing about 'another 3.5 aftershock hit Big Bear today...'
>They all know by now that there will be thousands of aftershocks this 
>size.  One of the stations now has a 'SeismoCam' -- a dedicated
>video camera glued to a seismograph ready to catch the smallest
>wiggle of the needle.  It's nice to be informed, but this is a bit much.
>
>Sheila
>-- 
>Sheila Wallace		(shla@spf.trw.com)
>TRW, One Space Park, R2/2162, Redondo Beach, CA 90278

Perhaps, but in other ways it's not nearly enough. despite their
state of the art news coverage hardware and facilities, the Los
Angeles stations still insist on gearing their coverage for the
average 10 year old. Today, for instance (mag 5.2 or 4.7 depending
on whether you use Caltech's or USGS Golden Colo. figure, epicenter
near Big Bear Lake, after shock of 6.5 on 6/28/92 in same general
vicinity) KCAL-TV Channel 9's video editing team cut off tape of
Kate Hutton (Caltech seismo lab wizard) explaining, as she does
so well, what happened, in mid sentence so they could switch back
live to their reporter standing in front of a Caltech sign so he
could say "And there you have it, back to you in the studio." 

Anecdotal phone and video reports get ten times as much air time
as does scientific reporting. KCAL's reporter also reversed the
Caltech and Golden Colo. magnitudes when he did his report. 
Even when they try to be "scientific" about it they can't get it right.
Back just after Landers when the press crews practically camped out
24 hours at Caltech we got a smattering of lovely footage of one
of their (I think) Sun workstations with a map of So Calif and the
epicenters plotted as yellow dots. Very graphic, very vivid, and a lot
more information on the screen at once than a camera pointed at a
drum-seismometer. But probably too much information on the screen at
once for the average television viewer to grasp, (in the minds of 
the news producers), so we get the drum recorders again.

Of late we've (So Calif tv viewers) also been treated to totally
sensationalistic coverage of the current heat wave, which normally
consists of nightly footage of a reporter standing with his feet
in a fountain.. a reporter at an ice skating rink so we can see
how people "beat the heat." Shots of day laborers sweating in the
sun as they dig ditches or nail in roof shingles. This has been going
on now for almost two weeks, ad nauseum. I'm sure television reporting
is no better anywhere else, but if you want economic coverage or
political coverage or entertainment coverage you can get it till
you puke.  Why should science coverage always get such cursory
and shabby treatment?
From: hannah@pomponio.ai.sri.com (Marsha Jo Hannah)
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
Subject: Re: Personal Tales of Big Earthquakes
Date: 18 Aug 92 17:13:28 GMT
	<1992Aug14.153706.3852@wdl.loral.com>
	<694G03fi60tw00@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com>
	<2A9044F4.17B1@deneva.sdd.trw.com> <64197@cup.portal.com>
Distribution: ca
Organization: SRI International, Menlo Park, CA
In-reply-to: Harv@cup.portal.com's message of 18 Aug 92 02:00:13 GMT

In article <64197@cup.portal.com> Harv@cup.portal.com (Harv R Laser) writes:

   Anecdotal phone and video reports get ten times as much air time
   as does scientific reporting. ...
   Back just after Landers when the press crews practically camped out
   24 hours at Caltech we got a smattering of lovely footage of one
   of their (I think) Sun workstations with a map of So Calif and the
   epicenters plotted as yellow dots. Very graphic, very vivid, and a lot
   more information on the screen at once than a camera pointed at a
   drum-seismometer. But probably too much information on the screen at
   once for the average television viewer to grasp, (in the minds of 
   the news producers), so we get the drum recorders again.

We computer scientists grind our teeth a lot over how the media
chooses to represent a piece of technology to the uninitated.  Think
about most of the movies, TV programs, etc that you have seen where a
computer was "thinking".  What did they show?  The tape drive
spinning.  Well, at least that was an improvement over the old, old
days, when they represented the computer by showing the card sorter
running---that piece of equipment usually wasn't even wired into the
mainframe!  I suspect it's the same with representing earthquakes.
The drum-seismometer, if video'd during a quake, actually moves, which
makes "better" video footage than a screen plot just sitting there.

It probably helps to bear in mind that the purpose of the media is
not information---it's entertainment.

As for personal earthquake tales, I managed to "miss" Loma Prieta.  I
was driving home up a twisting, slightly bumpy state highway in the
Santa Cruz Mountains, approx 30 miles NW of the epicenter.  It wasn't
until I got home and found a variety of little things that had fallen
onto the floor that I realized that an earthquake had happened!  And,
it wasn't until I had picked everything up and turned on the radio
that I realized it had been a BIG earthquake.  After the fact, I
recalled a brief period of driving during which I wondered whether the
recently-replaced shocks on my car were wearing out already.  That was
apparently a 7.1 earthquake going by!  My house was fine, but the wing
of the office building that I work in was evacuated for 3 weeks, while
they retrofitted a steel skeleton to the Nimitz-like concrete
structure of the building, and literally epoxied the many cracks back
together.  Co-workers in the building at the time said it gave them
quite a ride.

Marsha Jo Hannah
La Honda, CA
From: tar@ISI.EDU (Thomas A. Russ)
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
Subject: Nostradamus & Earthquake Prediction
Date: 12 Aug 92 18:24:51 GMT
Reply-To: tar@isi.edu
Distribution: ca
Organization: USC-ISI


I though I would share this morning's "National Lampoon True Fact"
from my desk calendar.  Unfortunately, the snippet doesn't have a date
attached:


"From the WASHINGTON TIMES: 'Four large people tried to make
16th-century astrologer Nostradamus's [sic] prediction of an
earthquake this month come true, courtesy of a Phoenix radio station.
The group's members, each weighing more than 300 pounds, tried jumping
up and down by the sea at Venice Beach, Calif., in an effort to start
an earthquake.  They trained for the event by eating pizza and
hamburgers.' "

Tom.

--

Thomas A. Russ                                             tar@isi.edu    
USC/ISI, 4676 Admiralty Way, Marina del Rey, CA 90292      (310) 822-1511
From: iccsap020@spacm1.spac.spc.com (David Cohen)
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
Subject: Re: Power LInes
Date: 19 Aug 92 16:49:50 GMT
Organization: Security Pacific Automation Co., LA, CA

In article <51096@seismo.CSS.GOV>, stead@skadi.CSS.GOV (Richard Stead) writes:
> In article <1992Aug18.142746.533@spacm1.spac.spc.com>, iccsap020@spacm1.spac.spc.com (David Cohen) writes:
>> I have an earthquake pamphlet that says that if a power line falls on
>> your car during a quake, not to worry.  You are safe in your car.
>> What it doesn't say is when, if ever, you can get out of your car.
>> Does anyone know?
> 
> Don't leave your car until rescue workers tell you it's safe.  The car is
> up on rubber tires, so it is insulated from the ground.  

Thank you for the response; but suppose the tires, or the whole 
car, is wet?  Is it still insulated?


> Richard Stead
> Center for Seismic Studies
> Arlington, VA
> stead@seismo.css.gov
From: stead@skadi.CSS.GOV (Richard Stead)
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
Subject: Re: Questions raised by SoCal Activity
Keywords: usgs refs, landers
Date: 18 Aug 92 21:59:21 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.171006.11297@acc.com>, art@acc.com (Art Berggreen) writes:
> The Death Valley area is definitely a wonderful place to visit (at the
> right time of year) with someone who knows the geology.  A friend of mine
> teaches geology and they make field trips out there every spring.  There
> is little vegatation to hide the geology and many vantage points which
> offer panoramic views of the area.  

I whole-heartedly endorse that.  I visited DV no less than 12 times in the 7
years I lived in S. CA.  I would recommend seeing all the usual accessible
points, but it is worthwhile to poke into the less-accessible areas.  Racetrack
lake is unique in the whole world as far as I know for the moving rocks.
(They move during severe storms, when no human is likely to be watching, but
they leave tracks of their motion).  And there is a great drive down a dirt
road through a canyon in the Grapevine Mts. just north of 190.


--
Richard Stead
Center for Seismic Studies
Arlington, VA
stead@seismo.css.gov
From: ho@helen.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Kinson Ho)
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
Subject: First Aid Courses (was: Shelf life of canned foods)
Date: 13 Aug 1992 21:10:25 GMT
Organization: University of California at Berkeley
Distribution: ca
NNTP-Posting-Host: helen.cs.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Aug12.230433.22180@aimla.com> jc@optimla.aimla.com (John VanHoozer) writes:

[Stuff deleted]

>A first aid kit is very important, too.  It is also the one thing that
>I don't currently have in the packs my fiance' and I prepared.  
>What would be a good minimum?
>
>Also,  I don't know if the RC has a manual or if there are any good 
>books (I know that there are books - don't know if they are good or not)
>but I would suggest that you call the RC and look in to _CLASSES_.
>I have some friends that took the hiker oriented first aid class 
>2 years ago and they loved it.  I am signing up for the next one I can!
>

The "hiker oriented" first aid class by the Red Cross is called
Advanced Wilderness First Aid.  You learn what to do if medical help
is NOT a call to 911 away, something nice to know after a big earthquake.  
In my opinion taking this course is much more important than packing
a (huge) first aid kit.

I strongly recommend the course to anyone who is serious about earthquake
preparedness.


Kinson Ho
Computer Science Division
UC Berkeley