From: dbd@urartu.sdpa.org (David Davidian)
Subject: Nonexistant References Used in Genocide Apology
Summary: Stances of Turkey and the Armenian People Vis-a-vis Nazi Germany 
Organization: S.D.P.A. Center for Regional Studies
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 15:13:37 GMT

Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish,talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history

In Turkish Genocide Apology <9211112309@zuma.UUCP> posted via its scribal
servant, sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic), we find a "response" to article
<1992Nov8.193746.19732@newstand.syr.edu> crdunlea@rodan.acs.syr.edu 
(Christopher R. Dunlea) who wrote:

[(*] == Turkish Genocide Apology

[CD] No, perhaps you should treat yourself to a good psychiatrist. Especially 
[CD] when you waste your time posting irrelevant rubbish but can't even 
[CD] respond to historical fact. 

[(*] Is that how the mind of a pseudo-scholar works? I was convinced that no 
[(*] one could have a more warped sense of the world. Now, any comment?

[(*] Source: Walker, Christopher: "Armenia: The Survival of a Nation."
[(*]     New York (St. Martin's Press), 1980.
[(*] 
[(*] This generally pro-Armenian work contains the following information
[(*] of direct relevance to the Nazi Holocaust: 
[(*] 
[(*] a) Dro (the butcher), the former Dictator of the Armenian Dictatorship and
[(*] the architect of the Genocide of 2.5 million Turks and Kurds, the most 
[(*] respected of Nazi Armenian leaders, established an Armenian Provisional 
[(*] Republic in Berlin during World War II; 
[(*]
[(*] b) this 'provisional government' fully endorsed and espoused the social 
[(*] theories of the Nazis, declared themselves and all Armenians to be 
[(*] members of the Aryan 'Super-Race;' 
[(*] 
[(*] c) they published an Anti-Semitic, racist journal, thereby aligning 
[(*] themselves with the Nazis and their efforts to exterminate the Jews; and, 
[(*]
[(*] d) they mobilized an Armenian Army of up to 20,000 members which fought 
[(*] side by side with the Wehrmacht.
[(*]

This Turkish-suggested reference says nothing of the kind! Note the lack of
quotes and page numbers provided in the anti-Armenian posting!

This is verbatim what Walker states on page 357:

	" Nevertheless there remains the incontestable fact that relations
	  between the Nazis and Dashnaks [Armenian political party] living
	  in the occupied areas were close and active. On 30 December 1941
	  an Armenian battalion was created by a decision of the Wehrmacht,
	  known as the 'Armenian 812th Battalion'. It was commanded by Dro,
	  and was made up of a small number of committed recruits, and a 
	  larger number of Armenians from the prisoners of war taken by the
	  Nazis in their sweep eastwards. Early on the total number was 8,000;
	  this number later grew to 20,000. The 812th Battalion was 
	  operational in the Crimea and the North Caucasus.

	  Except for Nzhdeh, no Armenian has ever been a theoretical fascist.
	  So what was the motive for the collaboration in the occupied areas?
	  It is possible to see it as a purely vengeful desire to retake
	  Armenia from the Bolsheviks. But I don't think that this alliance
	  was motivated by such a crude ambition. In the first place, there
	  is in the untutored mind a tendency to class Armenians and Jews 
	  together (offensive to both peoples); and the malevolent paranoia of
	  the Nazis might have manifested itself against Armenians as well as
	  Jews..."

Let's read what this text says about the Armenian contribution to the defeat
of Hitler on page 355-356:

	"The number of Soviet Armenian soldiers has been estimated at between
	 300,000 and 500,000; more than 50 Soviet generals were Armenian,
	 including General (later Marshal) Baghramian. Three Soviet Admirals
	 were also Armenian, which is all the more surprising when one 
	 considers that Armenia has never has a coastline; they include 
	 Admiral Isakov, whose account of the Sovier war at sea has been
	 translated into English. Over 32,000 Armenia soldiers were decorated
	 in the war, and over 100 received the award, "Hero of the Soviet 
	 Union".

	 Nor should one overlook the fact that on the other side of the world
	 20,000 Armenians served in the United States army during the war."

Since we have to endure this anti-Armenian rampage, we shall defend history 
against its revision! Let's review the role of Turks and Armenian during WW2.

------------------				---------
Republic of Turkey				Armenians
------------------				----------

TREATY OF NONAGGRESSION:			Number of Armenians serving in
German and Turkey				the Soviet armies in WWII is
						between 300,000 to 500,000.
18 June 1941
						50 Soviet generals were
(Ratifications exchanged,			Armenian
Berlin, 5 July 1941)
						3 Soviet Admirals were 
Article 1. The Turkish Republic			Armenian.
and the German Reich desirous of
establishing their relations on a		32,000 Armenian soldiers were
basis of mutually inviolability			decorated in the war.
integrity of their territories,
and to abstain from all action			General Baghramian was the
aimed directly or indirectly 			first to reach Berlin.
against one another.				
						Over 100 Armenians received
Article 2. The Turkish Republic			"Hero of the Soviet Union"
and the German Reich undertake to		award.
enter into friendly contact in the
future in regard to matters 			20,000 Armenians served in
involving their mutual interests		the U.S. Army in WWII.
with a view to reaching an 
agreement for their solution.

Article 3. The present Treaty 
which shall enter into force on
the date of its signature shall be
valid for a period of ten years.
The High Contracting Parties shall
in due time reach an agreement on
the matter of its prolongation.

The present Treaty shall be
ratified and the ratifications
shall be exchanged in Berlin as
soon as possible

Done in duplicate in the Turkish
and German languages both texts
being equally binding.

-> Turkey signed this Treaty with 
   Nazi Germany, just three days 
   before Hitler attacked Russia.

-> In 1943 Germany received 90% of 
   all Turkish exports, such as 
   chrome, cotton, oilseed, wool, 
   leather, etc. !!!!!

-> In June 1944, German war vessels 
   evacuating troops trapped in the 
   Crimea, were permitted passage by 
   Turkey through the Dardanelles.

-> In July of 1944 German planes used 
   Turkey's airspace to attack Allied
   shipping.

The Turkish General Staff was in Berlin 
during the later stages of WWII, hoping
to get their input into the disposition
of the Turkic mini-Armies formed out
of Soviet Central Asian Turkic prisoners 
of war.

In conclusion, since the reference is Turkish-suggested, let's read what is 
says on page 230:

	" By the end of 1916 the Turkish anti-Armenian measures were
	  virtually complete. The figures produced by Lord Bryce during the
	  war as similar to those of Dr. Lepsius, published in his _Bericht_
	  during the war, and confirmed in _Deutschland und Armenien, 1914-
	  1918 (1919). The Armenians in the Ottoman empire before the war
	  amounted to between 1,500,000 and 2,000,000; the Armenian 
	  Patriarchate gave the figure as 1,845,450. Of these about 250,000
	  managed to escape to Russia, either overland or (like Murad of
	  Sivas) by sea. Of the remaining 1,600,000 about 1,000,000 were 
	  killed, half of whom were women and children. Of the remaining
	  600,000 about 200,000 were forcibly Islamized; and the wretched
	  remnant of 400,000 was found, starving in rags, by the Allies (or
	  a few representatives of them that bothered to penetrate into the
	  interior of Turkey) at the end of the war. A further figure of
	  between 50,000 and 100,000 were killed off during the Turkish 
	  invasion of the Caucasus in May-September 1918; and probably another
	  250,000 or so during the years 1919-22, when surviving deported
	  Armenians returned home to face further organized killings..."

Hmm..a Turkish-suggested reference -- such fools!


-- 
David Davidian dbd@urartu.sdpa.org "It has been ever thus in all things, son, 
SDPA Center for Regional Studies    Whatever we thrash we give to the wind, 
P.O. Box 382761                     We too have been blown by the world's wind
Cambridge, MA 02238                 The chaff is gone but the grain remains." 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish,talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history,soc.culture.iranian