From: nrz@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system
Subject: Re: Information on: The IIvi, IIvx, and Performa 600
Date: 17 Aug 92 15:23:37 EDT
Distribution: na,comp
Organization: Cornell University

breck@kirk.ecs.umass.edu (Liam Breck) writes (comparing IIsi and LC II): 

> This is a common misconception.  Actually, the IIsi is about 28%
> faster, which is not enough to notice in most real-time applications.
> When doing something very CPU-bound, you might notice.  That is to

and ...

>                      ... Aside from the better price the LCII has:
> dedicated, dual-ported VRAM and hence equal or better video
> performance than the IIsi, ...

and ...

> It's the same in the case of the Macs; you'll find that the original
> Mac II is only 4% faster than the original LC (both 020s at 16MHz).

Someone else already posted Speedometer results to refute the IIsi vs.
LC II claims.  When I was shopping for a Mac, I copied some "real-world" 
benchmarks from Mac-whatever ('User' or 'World').  The benchmarks involved 
the LC, not the LC II, but later benchmarks have shown the LC/LC II to be 
almost identical in speed.  (I haven't benchmarks that support another 
poster's claim that the LC II was 10-20% faster than the LC.) Some results 
follow. Numbers are seconds required to complete each benchmark.


         Graphics(?)   Find/Replace   Scroll    Sort 4D D/B   Open Files

IIsi:       29.2           53.8        68.1         155          13.2
II:         40.6           65.8        78.1         197          18.9
LC:         50.2           88.1        92.8         240          20.9

LC/IIsi:    1.72           1.64        1.36         1.55         1.58
(ratio)
 LC/II:     1.24           1.34        1.19         1.22         1.11
(ratio)


            Save            Tween             Redraw
          Word File     Swivel Image(??)    Wingz Chart

IIsi:       24.6             176               31.9     
II:         33.6             245               36.0
LC:         46.2             352               53.7

LC/IIsi:    1.88             2.0               1.68
(ratio)
 LC/II:     1.38             1.44              1.49
(ratio)


While such benchmarks aren't the last word (e.g., what disks were 
involved?) these numbers indicate that the IIsi, and even the Mac II, 
have much better performance relative to the LC/LC II than Liam says.

Note also that the Mac-whatever magazines have (until recently) been
notoriously unaware of the "384K disk cache" trick for speeding up the 
IIsi, so these numbers may not reflect optimal IIsi performance.  (BTW, 
384K is hardly a "huge" disk cache, as Liam said is needed for this 
speedup.)

Also, Liam said

> Another point about video...  Since the LCII can use a low cost VGA
> monitor (I got a Trinitron screen for $350) it really lets you save on
> the monitor.  To get the same quality on a IIsi, expect to shell out
> the bucks!

I have to pick a nit with this.  I have seen a Sony 1320 on an LC, and
I have a 1304 on my IIci.  The 1320/LC combination had some noticeable 
flicker (to my eye).  This suggests to me that the LC's VGA mode is 
using a 60Hz refresh -- lower than the Mac II standard 66.7Hz.  This may 
be a disadvantage for people who are more flicker-sensitive.

Finally, Liam wrote (in a later posting):

>                    ... Until recently, the IIsi was badly
> overpriced, so price/performance wise (that's my argument here) the
> LCII has been the better machine.
       ^^^ ^^^^

Whoa. We're talking about now, not "has been".  Initially, you yelled 
(figuratively) at some poster, telling him not to buy the IIsi.  It 
appears you were, at first, unaware of the recent price cuts on the IIsi.  
Above, you're backing off from your initial statements.

As for the overall IIsi/LC II value comparison, I would say that the 
recent price cut on the IIsi has made it so close in price to the LC II 
that I'd have trouble justifying the LC II (unless perhaps, you don't 
mind the LC's VGA mode, in which case you could save on a monitor).  As
for waiting for the new Macs, that's beyond the scope of this article :-).
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc