HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pnr0@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (PAUL N. RITTER)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Carrying spare magazines
Date: 13 Aug 92 15:23:41 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

In article <8mZcPB2w165w@hale.cts.com>, system@hale.cts.com writes:
#alane@microsoft.com (Alan Ezekiel) writes:
#
## I have been told several times by defensive handgun instructors
## that every person who carries a defensive firearm should have an
## extra magazine or speedloader with them.
##
## Here are some of the reasons I have been given:
#	..... [deleted] ......

      USUALLY for Law Enforcement Officers, as they would need the firepower a
bit more readily than the average "Joe Citizen" would.


#
From: jhultman@vitalink.com
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Ballistic Coefficient
Date: 13 Aug 92 21:41:06 GMT
Organization: Vitalink Communications Corporation


 
chrstie@ccu.umanitoba.ca (William John M. Christie) writes...
# 
#Hi, I have often heard the term ballistic coefficient but have wondered what
#exactly it meant.  My base understanding is that it deals with calibre,
#weight and velocity however beyond that.... 


#From the glossary of Speers_ Reloading_ Manual_ Number_ 10.  (w/o permission)

Ballistic Coefficient:  Ratio of the sectional density of a bullet to its coeffient of form.  Represents the 
projectile's abiility to overcome the resistance of the air in flight.  

Sectional Density:  A bullet's weight, in pounds, divided by the square of it's diameter, in inches. 

 
#Does anyone know how to calculate it and, more importantly, what those results mean?

There is a three page description in this manual on Ballistic Coefficients.  It is quite complex.
I hesitate to reproduce it though a trip to the local sporting good store that carries reloading
supplies will/should have a reloading manual or two for reference.  

Some of the factors involved in determining B/C  in the manuals are for internal ballistics.  That is
since they have no control over what conditions exist externally, ie, humidity/air density, 
tempurature, etc, they confine the data to "what happens in the ammunition and gun." 
By using the B/C of a chosen projectile and knowing the muzzle velocity of a given load, there
are tables in the back of the manual that you can refer to to determine the time of flight, energy 
imparted (Ft lb per grain), and where the bullet will strike at a known distance in relation to
line of site.   For instance, my pig load is a 30-06, 165 gr with a B/C of .393 and a muzzle
velocity of 2770 fps.  Refering to the table,  looking up the B/C for .39 and then to the velocity
( I round to 2800fps as the tables are listed in 100 fps increments) I can sight my reloads to
be zero/dead on at 300 yds by adjusting the bullet to  hit 4.7 inches high at 100 yds.  Trajectory
will be -1.5 inches at muzzle, 4.7 " at 100 yds/2564 fps, 5.5 inches at 200 yds/2341 fps, and 0 at 
300 yds/2128 fps, -13.2" at 400 yds/1927 fps.  (According to the tables)

Ballistics is like a science...


Jeff
-----------------


Std disclaimers apply,  Opinions are mine and not necessarily those of my employers... and Vice 
Versa.. 
------------------
From: jbm@cyclone.sbi.com (Jeffrey B. Moore)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Should my first handgun be a .22? (Too wimpy for defense?)
Date: 18 Aug 92 21:37:11 GMT

A .22 is a great gun to learn with;  you're unlikely to pick up a
flinch firing .22LR, and it's cheap enough to shoot that you can
practise *a lot*, as we all should...

The S&W 41 is renowned as a really fine gun, but costs dollar$.

There are other nice little ``plinking'' Smiths.

I've heard good things about the Browning Buck Marks.

The Ruger Mk. IIs tend to be accurate, but are a royal pain to
reassemble after cleaning, and their sheet-metal parts are (IMHO)
unpleasing.  (Somehow Sig manages create pleasing weapons with some
sheet-metal parts; but I guess you pay for it.)

As for the non-target-shooting considerations, I have no personal
knowledge about what might be necessary to discourage a malicious
ursine, but I suspect it might be in the .44Mag range, unless you're
talking grizzlies: then you'd be talking something even *more*
unpleasant.  Not a learner's gun, especially since I've found .44Spl
factory ammo hard to come by in the corner firearms emporium; I load
my own gentled-down .44Mag fodder for paper-punching.  Note that
too-early exposure to full-power .44Mags in this post-Dirty-Harry era
is probably responsible for more badly ingrained flinches than any
other cause.

As a good all-around practice/defence/packable gun, if our large hairy
friends are not to be involved, I'd suggest a good ol' .357, from
which you can lob .38 wadcutters with a recoil impulse similar to a
.22.  I'll forward an earlier pontification I posted on a similar
subject separately (and not copied to the newsgroup).  To summarize:
The Smith 686 is well-respected; I have a weakness for the Python;
four-inch barrels are practical.

-Jeff Moore (jbm@sbi.com)
From: ghm@ccadfa.cc.adfa.oz.au (Geoff Miller)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .22 cal handgun
Date: 21 Aug 92 12:59:25 GMT
Organization: Australian Defence Force Academy, Canberra, Australia

cgallagh@cordelia.next.nd.edu (christopher gallagher) writes:

#I went to a .22 cal target shooting match with a cousin and enjoyed it  
#very much.  I would like to get involved where I live.  I have shot skeet  
#but have only plinked with a few pistols.  I would appreciate any  
#suggestions on pistols that are good enough for competition.

Suggestion 1:  _don't_ bother with new pistols.  Look at secondhand
guns.  Buy a new gun when you're sure you want to stick with the
sport.

Suggestion 2:  for specific models, try the Hi-Standard Citation/Victor
(no longer produced, but still an excellent gun if in good condition  -
I started with one, sold it and have been regretting this every since)
or the S&W model 41.  You might also be lucky and find a good old
Browning or Colt, but only consider those models with a heavy barrel.

Suggestion 3:  DO NOT consider the Ruger or the lightweight S&W autos.
All the ones I have seen have had lousy triggers.  An experienced shooter
can work around a poor trigger, but not a beginner.

Geoff Miller  (g-miller@adfa.oz.au)
From: gmk@falstaff.MAE.CWRU.EDU (Geoff Kotzar)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Surplus Rifle Advice
Date: 18 Aug 92 17:13:40 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University

In article <9208132038.AA02737@mimsy.cs.UMD.EDU> C08926RC@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu (Rob) writes:
#
##Mausers in 6.5mm are a decent choice if you can get brass; 6.5mm/.257
##bullets are readily available.
#
#Just a correction:  6.5mm is actually .264 caliber, not .257.
#
#
#Rob

One additional data point: the 6.5's are also referred to as .256's (not
.257's). This was/is most common when referring to the 6.5x54 Mannlicher
Schoenauer but I have seen a reference or two to the Swedish cartridge
like this. The difference between the two numbers is the same as our .30
and .308 references: bore and groove diameters.

geoff
From: kknox@logdis1.hq.aflc.af.mil (Sgt Kevin P. Knox)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: RE: Recommendation wanted for handgun in .22 LR
Date: 21 Aug 92 18:01:57 GMT

#From:           hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath)
#Subject:        Re: Recommendation wanted for handgun in .22 LR
#(including Berettas) Organization:   The Cat Factory
#
#In article <9208182111.AA15195@network.ucsd.edu> mbh@sdphu3.ucsd.edu
#(Matt Harrington) writes: }... I also like
#}the Beretta 21 and the other miniature Beretta in .22 Short.


I realize that you want a miniature, however....  A month ago or so,
I sold a S&W Model 422 to a client.  It was very light, thin, had a
four inch bbl and was a great buy for the money.  Incidentally, the
dealer cost was well under $200.00, I can't remember exactly as my
books aren't in front of me - I think it was somewhere in the
neighborhood of $150.00.   I would consider one of these as an
alternative.  - Thanks.  -- kev

==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)=
|  Kevin Knox, Assistant DDN NSC                    KKNOX@192.12.64.3        |
|  2046 Comm Group, BCTF                                                     |
|  Cmrcl: (513)257-4088   DSN 787-4088    KKNOX@LOGDIS1.HQ.AFLC.WPAFB.AF.MIL |
|                                                                            |
|  "Time flies like lightning.... Fruit flies like banana!"                  |
|                                                                            |
==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)==  ==(*)=
From: bressler@iftccu.ca.boeing.com (Rick Bressler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Underwater shooting???
Date: 13 Aug 92 15:23:52 GMT
Organization: Boeing Commercial Airplane Group


#        In a movie I saw last night a FBI agent fired
#        his revolver (.38 spl I suppose) UNDER water!!!
#        And several times.
#        I have thought that that kind of action would blow
#        your gun away (together with some parts of your body).

This can usually be done successfully.  Remember: a bubble is as good 
as a barrel obstruction.  Make sure the barrel is COMPLETELY filled with 
water.  Even then, don't blame anybody except yourself if it blows up.  

Glock makes one model that is intended to fire under water.  As far as I 
know, the only modifications are to the striker for more reliable 
ignition.  'Course it isn't available to us civilians.....

Rick.
From: sybok@athena.mit.edu (The Rifleman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Ruger Security Six Price?
Date: 13 Aug 92 15:23:36 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

In article <01GNHY39Q18OAJKLCY@WVNVMS.WVNET.EDU> roman@wvnvms.wvnet.edu writes:
#Can anybody with access to "Gun List" or some other publication that lists
#prices of firearms please give me an approximate value for a used Ruger
#Security Six .357 (model 717)?  There's a big auction coming up locally,
#and I'm interested in the going price for this revolver.  Thanks.
#-- Roman Olynyk

Is it stainless or blue?  Around here a used, stainless _Speed Six_ would 
go for around $220 retail.
From: Thi_Huynh@univel.COM (Thi Huynh)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 9mm +P loads
Date: 20 Aug 92 21:41:32 GMT

# What the heck is a 9mm +P load?  I read some posts where people mention
# it, but my reloading manual doesn't mention it.  I've never seen any
# 9mm +P ammo in the store either.  I have seen 38 special +P ammo before.
# The maximum working pressure for the 9mm is 35,000 CUP.  Does this mean
# that the 9mm +P load excedes this limit?  

In recent reloading manuals, such as Sierra, they list maximum loads for
115-gr bullet as having a velocity of 1300 fps.  This would definitely
place this load in the +P or even +P+ range.  If you take Remington R9MM6 
load (115-gr JHP +P 9mmP 1275 fps) and Federal 9BP (?) which is +P+
for 115-gr JHP (velocity is 1320 fps), a velocity of 1300 fps is in
the ball park for +P or +P+.

All Remington +P and Federal +P+ are within SAAMI specs for 9mmP.  You can
buy Remington R9MM6 ammunition over the counter in major gun shops.

-tt
From: grant@bluemoon.rn.com (Grant DeLorean)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Occasional Dud in Glock 20
Date: 20 Aug 92 13:08:05 GMT
Organization: Blue Moon

nsc!jrr@decwrl.dec.com (Jerry Roe) writes:

#Just wondering:  let's suppose for a moment you did happen to be using
#reloads, ones that you put together yourself.  Let's say you used major-
#brand brass (Winchester, Remington etc.), tumble-polished it, used the
#same primers the factory did, same powder, same bullets, sized the
#brass to factory specs...how would anybody KNOW you were using handloads?

 If it has been loaded more than the once it is a dead give-away. The
ammo makers also don't use the same canister grade powders reloaders
have access to (with a very few exceptions, Freedom Arms uses H110
for their factory loaded .454 Casull rounds for example) and this
will be a give-away no matter what.  
-- 
\   Grant DeLorean  - IHMSA & NRA Life Member -  (grant@bluemoon.rn.com)   /

        Tested on dolphins and assorted helpless furry creatures
From: canders%lacerta.unm.edu@lynx.unm.edu (Cliff Anderson CIRT)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: The New Colt AR15s
Date: 13 Aug 92 23:50:40 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

Has anyone out there heard about the new Colt AR15 rifles in 7.62 by 39 cal.
This sounds like a good idea from the folks at Colt.  You know!!
Cutting in on the SKS market.  Well I'm sure it cost alot more.

Thanks,  Cliff.
From: cramer@optilink.com (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Comments on Uberti's Henry Rifle?
Date: 12 Aug 92 13:31:10 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA


In article <1992Aug9.202232.7132@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>, spf@hoqaa.att.com (Steven P Frysinger) writes:
# I just saw Cabella's newest catalog, wherein they introduced three
# (originally) blackpowder cartridge rifles by Uberti.  One of these is
# the Henry rifle, usually described as the first repeater (ca. 1860).
# Their price (in brass) is ~$679.  Compare this to a 3-year old Navy
# Arms price list in which the Henry is ~$780 (and probably more now).
# I had always assumed that Navy Arms' gun was made by Uberti anyway.
# 
# So now, I'm more tempted than ever.  But I've never shot one of these
# critters, and don't know anyone who owns one.  I've generally heard
# good things about Uberti's guns, but don't own any.  Does anyone have
# any experience with their Henry rifle?
# 
# Steve Frysinger

EMF in Santa Ana, Cal., also imports the Uberti 1860 Henry, and I
sold one to a customer a while back.  I've heard no complaints.
Being interested in the Civil War*, I made a point of looking it
over carefully before the customer picked it up.  Gorgeous!  I
don't ordinarily let the esthetics of a gun influence me (they
are just functional tools to me), but it was obvious that not only
was the Uberti 1860 Henry very well crafted, it was also a work of
art.

*By The Dim and Flaring Lamps: The Civil War Diaries of Samuel McIlvaine
 edited by Clayton E. Cramer

 ISBN: 0-912526-46-7
 published by Library Research Associates, Monroe, NY
 In hardback, suggested retail $28.95



-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
"People are not responsible in their actions."  "Do you honestly think that
people think before they fuck?"  -- Jeff Dauber inadvertantly explains why
AIDS is wiping out the homosexual and IV drug abuser communities
From: cash@convex.com (Peter Cash)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 9mm major / 9x21 reloading question
Date: 17 Aug 92 17:53:33 GMT
Organization: The Instrumentality

In article <1992Aug17.044759.2157@sserve.cc.adfa.oz.au> ghm@ccadfa.cc.adfa.oz.au (Geoff Miller) writes:
#n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio) writes:
#
...
##The .30 is a pretty wacky caliber*, imo, but I see nothing wrong with
##the .38 Spr, and I see little reason to prefer 9mm chambering to it, 
##especialy for the reloader.
#
#In some European countries (Italy, for sure) civilians are not allowed
#to possess pistols in "military" calibres.  Same thing is, I think
#true of Mexico?  9x19 and .45 ACP are military, 7.65 Luger and
#.455 Webley auto are not (even though they once were, but who said
#bureaucrats had to be logical), so you'll still find these cartridges
#in use.

I think this was the reasoning behind making some Browning High-Power
(P-35) pistols in .30 luger (7.65 Luger). I've only seen one of these (at a
gun show) it was pretty cheap--about $250 as I recall-- so I was tempted.
(But managed to resist.) Come to think of it, I did also see a High Power
with interchangeable 9mm/30 Luger barrels. The 9mm Parabellum is a necked-up
Luger .30, so conversion between the two ought to be simple. You should be
able to use the same slide and magazine, I think.

Getting .30 Luger barrel for my High Power would actually be kind of
interesting.  (I didn't say it was _practical_, I said it was interesting
8^). Maybe I'll bite if I see one someday.

##*(It seems strange to have a full sized gun chambered to fire .32 ACP size
##bullets.)
#
#Yes, but it fires them a bit quicker than the .32 ACP blowbacks :-)

Well, the 7.65 Luger was pretty anemic--but the 7.65 Mauser is a horse of
an entirely different color. When you see one fired, the flash tells you,
"Hi, I'm a magnum!"




-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
             |      Die Welt ist alles, was Zerfall ist.     |
Peter Cash   |       (apologies to Ludwig Wittgenstein)      |cash@convex.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: bbx!bbxrbk!russ@unmvax.cs.unm.edu (Russ Kepler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Rust control
Date: 14 Aug 92 13:31:19 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization

In article <viking.713689158@vincent1.iastate.edu> the moderator writes:
#                                      .....  My hope is that the advice
#I gave before is true, since I always prefer the lazy man's way out, and
#I'd love to avoid dusting up the house with rouge as inevitably happens
#when I polish a piece down with the bench grinder.]

If you *want* to remove the bluing use a dilute solution of
hydrochloric acid (available in bulk at hardware stores as "Muratic
acid".  Don't let the fumes carry to anything with bluing that you
want to keep (do the cleaning outside) and be aware that hydrochloric
acid can be nasty stuff.


-- 
.signature: not found.  Create?
From: davidsen@ariel.crd.ge.com (william E Davidsen)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Action Ears: What Do Users Think?
Date: 18 Aug 92 17:14:21 GMT


In article <1992Aug12.184545.12657@ttinews.tti.com>, 
hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath) writes:

| I tried a pair at the local range.  If the range is busy your conversation
| is going to be chopped up into unintelligible bits.  If it's not, you
| don't need them.

  Most doctors would disagree. Even a few shots can damage hearing.

| The best uses I can think of for them are hunting and home defense -- if
| you've got time to get them on.  For either case, I'd recommend the stereo
| models (separate amp and mic for each ear).  I doubt you'll find them for
| $60.

  I want a set for trap. I don't want to hear anything when I'm
shooting, but it sure would be nice to hear people say "pull" when I'm
officiating. 

-- 
bill davidsen, GE Corp. R&D Center; Box 8; Schenectady NY 12345
    I admit that when I was in school I wrote COBOL. But I didn't compile.
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Top Man Stoppers???
Date: 13 Aug 92 23:50:42 GMT
Organization: Western Washington University

jheath@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Jim Heath) writes:

#Does anyone make specialty loads like these:

#I have heard of people crimping a pair of fishing weights on the
#ends of a length of nylon fishing line.  One guy who tried it
#said it cut off an 8 inch (diameter) tree very neatly.

Yeah sure:  The story I heard was that it cut a fire hydrant. ;-)


Jim "I read it in alt.folklore.urban, so it must be true" Del Vecchio
From: mbh@sdphu1.ucsd.edu (Matt Harrington)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: .357 vs 9mm and Revolvers vs Semi-autos  (was: 1st gun= .22? )
Date: 18 Aug 92 03:00:57 GMT
Organization: Physics Department, UCSD

I recently posted a request for recommendations for my first handgun,
and I received many helpful responses.  Just about everyone suggested  a
.357 Magnum revolver loaded with .38s for target practice and .357
magnums for defense.

I have two questions:  First, if .357s and 9mm are about the same size
in bullet diameter, what are the advantages and disadvantages of either
round?  Do .357s have more stopping power?

Second: what are the advantages of using a revolver in .357?  I am
looking for something that uses cheaper .38 ammo for practice.  Do
semi-autos use more expensive rounds than revolvers in .38?  How about
reliability and accuracy?  I'm leaning towards a semi-auto becuase of
the larger round capacity.  By the way, I've been using a S&W Classic
Hunter .357 at my local range.

Thanks in advance for your help!

					Regards,

					Matt Harrington
From: peterson@ucunix.san.uc.EDU (John M. Peterson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: All those SKS's for sale
Date: 12 Aug 92 23:33:36 GMT
Organization: University of Cincinnati


about those 109.00 sks's,i just bought one for my
very own last night.i went shooting this past week
with my brother and we had a "blast"with his.it is
fairly accurate(killed a lot of pop cans on his north
forty)the only drawback i can see is the horrible
finish on the stock,but the smithy showed me a stock
he had re finished,didnt look bad at all.he had
plugged that "evil"bayonet groove also,that added
a new look to it.one other thing,you MUST dis-
assemble and clean EVERY parts group(dont go so
far as to have a bunch little parts you cant put
back together,just spray the assemblies with a good
solvent)BTW,mine cost me 135.00 out the door.

marty using jmp's account


+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|  peterson@headcheese.daa.uc.edu      	 In real life: John M. Peterson  |
|                                                                        |
|  College of Design Architecture Art & Planning                         |
|  University of Cincinnati           45221-0016           513-556-1207  |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: jimc@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Jim Cox)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Holding a perp at gunpoint
Date: 14 Aug 92 13:31:41 GMT
Organization: Motorola Inc., Austin Tx.

In article <1992Aug12.194625.24647@chpc.org> rboudrie@chpc.org (Rob Boudrie) writes:
#Ok, here we go again...
#
#Here's how it works in Massachusetts :
#
#- If the perp escapes, and is not subsequently captured, you will have
#to deal with the responding officer regarding your use of the gun (it's

Very intresting comments on how one can get into trouble deleted...

Gad Zooks Bob!!! Maybe it is time leave Massachusetts and move to America!

Yes I know, take it to T.P.G.

[MODERATOR:  Sadly, yes.     On both counts.]

---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Jim Cox                            Internet: jimc@bartman.sps.mot.com
Phone: (512) 891-3182          UUCP Address: cs.utexas.edu!oakhill!otis!jimc
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: larryd@milton.u.washington.edu (Larry Desoto)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Stupid shooter tricks
Date: 19 Aug 92 23:43:44 GMT
Organization: University of Washington

swatt%mickey@net.yale.edu (Alan Watt) writes:


#One one occasion taking someone out to teach them to shoot with a .22
#semi-auto.  Things were going fairly nicely until one of the hot empties
#went right down the front of her shirt.  In the commotion which followed,
#proper muzzle awareness was not maintained.

I saw something similar once.  A nice looking lady was shooting a semi-auto
9 mm a couple of stations down.  She was wearing a blouse with a loose, 
flowing neck...sort of like a scoop.  She was busy unloading a magazine 
when one of the hot cases sailed up into the air and right down her blouse.
She was pretty good though...she had the presence of mind to put the piece
down on the shooting station before getting her blouse off.  I saw her a 
time or two after that and she was always careful about wearing blouses
with a tight neckline...


On another occasion, I watched a novice shooter with a Browing hi-power
learn about a proper grip.  The guy kept gripping the butt with his hand
too high.  The instructor corrected him several times but finally either
forgot or gave up.  When the fellow touched off the next round, the slide
neatly slashed two gashes right through the webbing between his thumb and
forefinger.


--
Larry                                   |   Thunder makes all the noise;
                                        |   lightning gets the job done.
larryd@milton.washington.edu
I have my opinion; the university has its own.