HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mechalas@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (John P. Mechalas)
Subject: Re: OpenLook flight simulation for SUN-4?
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 92 16:26:28 GMT

In article <1992Oct8.152451.24869@cas.org> lrm28@cas.org () writes:
>archie gave flight_sim.tar.Z, which uncompressed, untar-ed, and compiled
>just fine (miracle of miracles!  I like it when this happens!! :-)  It
>works in Sunview.  I'm looking for OpenLook, since that's what I run on

Can you tell us where you ftp'd this program from?  For those of us unfamiliar
with archie?
-- 
John Mechalas                                          "I'm not an actor, but
mechalas@gn.ecn.purdue.edu                                 I play one on TV."
Aero Engineering, Purdue University                     #include disclaimer.h
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: Why not discuss "real simulators" here?
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 92 00:13:44 GMT
Distribution: rec

In article <HUOPIO.92Oct15102436@pyton.cc.lut.fi> huopio@lut.fi
(Kauto Huopio) writes:
>Perhaps the graphics can be done in one computer. But I doubt that the
>I/O and the graphics fit in the same system. The graphics (for 4
>displays) will take a LOT of capasity already. If I've understood it
>correctly, a typical commercial jet simulator needs something like
>1000 I/O channels...or what is the real world figure?

>How about building the simulator in a "massively distributed" way?
>I've heard of systems that have something like 30-40 486 PC:s running
>all proprietary code. Of course the displays are done in a bit more
>specialized systems.

Well, this is certainly a research and technology topic.
If you look at the architecture of the image generators, you will find
"pipelined" parallelism.  This is inherent in Sutherland's graphics model
from the 1960s.  The trick is to place it in hardware.  But that's just
the computer portion.

The optics are another issue.  The "infinity optics" make a difference.
Great stuff, not cheap.  How real must the interface (cockpit) look like?
The issue is the degree of realism in your model.  The model after all is
merely a simplification of the complexities of the real world.  The greater
the requirement for realism, the more complexity into the simulator.
That's interesting is that you can get away from motion bases only so far,
it's amazing how motion sick you can get just by viewing a visual field.
But less so with pilots.  They are a more finicky audience than a casual
viewer.

Massively parallel architectures are the next real challenge in most
of computing.  You can put the PCs together, but the software to drive them
is totally lacking.  If you need refs, I can give you >17,418 (hardware,
software, and algorithms), but most of them are useless.  Synchronization
is tough.  If it were easy, it would have been done by now.  This is a
common comment (decades old).

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Acting Associate Editor, Software and Publication Reviews
  Scientific Programming
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Seeking Books to buy:	Bongard, Pattern Recognition
			Imhof, Cartographic Relief Presentation
			Books on or by Benjamin Whorf
From: alumni101@camins.camosun.bc.ca
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
Subject: test
Date: 16 Oct 92 05:09:29 GMT
Organization: Camosun College

test...test...test...
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
From: U6IC <U6IC@UNB.CA>
Subject: Lost Nav-aids for FS4
Organization: The University of New Brunswick
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 04:01:12 GMT

It is really encouraging to see *oops* (read) of so many simulator
enthusiasts out there. I currently use the MS FS4.0 and in a recent
move, I seem to have lost the nav-aid list for scenery disks 9 and 7.
Does anyone out there have a list of these? I sure would appreciate
a listing of these. Sure is tough dead reckoning through the FS4
database.

You may E-Mail me at U6IC@UNB.CA
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
From: stauffer@src.honeywell.com (Don Stauffer)
Subject: Sound with F.S.
To: rec.aviation.simulators
Posted-Date: Wed, 7 Oct 92 08: 38:14 CDT
Organization: Honeywell Systems & Research Center
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 13:38:14 GMT
Received-Date: Wed, 7 Oct 92 08: 38:14 CDT

Joe Mazza asked about sound boards for use with F.S.4.0.  I use the 
SoundBlaster (the regular one, not the Pro).  The sound is beautiful - except
for one very minor problem.  On prop driven planes, I noticed something that
seemed distracting at first.  The sound did not change when I changed
pitch slightly to descend or climb just a small amount.  In a real plane
it would, of course, as loading on engine changes slightly.  I then checked
the tach.  Sure enough, it turns out the engine rpm is strictly a function
of power setting.

The funny thing is, I never noticed that before, with the sound through
the PC speaker.  My theory is that the sound used to be so unrealistic
that my mind completely discarded it as a "situation awareness" input.
But with Sound & Scenery Designer, and high fi sound, the sound is so
realistic that my subconsious now processes the input, and finds that
it doesn't jib with my visual inputs (particularly rate of climb and
airspeed indicators).  Anyone else notice this?
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
From: peterco@eff.org (Peter Cohen)
Subject: Mac: Flightsim opinions sought
Originator: peterco@eff.org
Organization: The Electronic Frontier Foundation
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 22:03:50 GMT

Mac users:

Please give me honest appraisals of the flight simulators you've seen.  In
particular, I'm interested in FS 4.0, P-51 Flight Simulator, and Falcon
2.2 (or whatever the latest Mac rev is), in particular, since all the
aforementioned programs will run on a lowly Mac Plus.

Thanks.  You're welcome to email me if you prefer bandwidth conservation.
-- 
+-----------------+------------------------------------------------+
| Peter A. Cohen  |   No, I don't reflect my employer's opinions.  |
| peterco@eff.org | Heck!  My employer doesn't even know I'm here! |
+-----------------+------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
From: lrm28@cas.org ()
Subject: Re: OpenLook flight simulation for SUN-4?
Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service, Columbus, Ohio
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 18:33:35 GMT

In article <1992Oct8.162628.29424@gn.ecn.purdue.edu> mechalas@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (John P. Mechalas) writes:
>In article <1992Oct8.152451.24869@cas.org> lrm28@cas.org () writes:
>>archie gave flight_sim.tar.Z, which uncompressed, untar-ed, and compiled
>
>Can you tell us where you ftp'd this program from?  For those of us unfamiliar
>--
>John Mechalas                                          "I'm not an actor, but

Xarchie tells us the location of this archive is:

isy.liu.se      /src/sunview/fltsim.tar.Z       335371 bytes    Sept 6 1990

It is a Sunview tool.  It'll run under OpenWindows, but I'd prefer an
OpenLook tool.  It works pretty well.  Maybe someone should get it and
make it available for US customers.  isy.liu.se is Sweden, I think.
-- 
Luke Mayercin  lrm28@cas.org  "Why does ear wax taste like it does?"
Chemical Abstracts Service is not responsible for these comments.
From: Joel_Murray@mindlink.bc.ca (Joel Murray)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
Subject: Re: ATP commands
Date: 15 Oct 92 14:23:03 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

> Marc. Durieux writes:
>
> The other thig concerns a few keystrokes that my friend, after
> loosing the manual, can't remember.  How do I set the autopilot?
> How do I get exernal views?  How do I set the radar map?

I'm sure that your friend could phone or write to subLOGIC to replace his
lost manual....
--

       Joel Murray / Vancouver, British Columbia  /  Canada, Eh?
       Joel_Murray@mindlink.bc.ca               CIS:  73200,3117

                        NO! on October 26th!
From: rlwst8+@pitt.edu (Robert L Williamson)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
Subject: Re: AOTP HELP!
Date: 14 Oct 92 00:10:13 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

I purchased ACes of the Pacific about 2 weeks ago.  I loaded the game onto harddrive but when I tried to run it, it gave me a message that said not enough memory.  It turns out I am short 100K of expanded memory.  I was about to give up on the game until I read about a boot disk u can make that will give u extra memory.  I kept getting erors as I tried to make this boot disk.  Can anyone help me with my memory dilemma?  I really would like to play this game!  Any help would be appreciated.  
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators,comp.sys.mac.games
From: mechalas@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (John P. Mechalas)
Subject: Re: F.S 4.0
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 92 17:49:27 GMT

In article <BvrFwE.JLK@scd.hp.com> albert@sc.hp.com (Albert Alcorn) writes:
>How well will FS 4.0 run on a 386, 20MHz with 2 meg ram and 120mb hard disk?

Very well.  Especially if you use some of that high RAM for a disk cache.

-- 
John Mechalas                                          "I'm not an actor, but
mechalas@gn.ecn.purdue.edu                                 I play one on TV."
Aero Engineering, Purdue University                     #include disclaimer.h
From: pricejoh@CS.ColoState.EDU (john russel price)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
Subject: falcon 3.0 for sale
Date: 13 Oct 92 02:44:39 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University Computer Science, Industrial Technology


   I have a new copy of Falcon 3.0 (a month old) for sale or trade 
 for a copy of Flight Assignment ATP. The Falcon 3.0 is complete
 with all documentation and origonal box, I think the registration
 card is there also, I didn't send it in.  Make me an offer
 or trade straight out for ATP with documentation.

-- 
John Price    email: pricejoh@handel.CS.Colostate.Edu
From: aron@luxor.ced.berkeley.edu (aron bonar)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
Subject: Re: Falcon 3.0
Date: 16 Oct 1992 07:11:53 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: luxor.ced.berkeley.edu

If you are using the original release without any of the fixes? Its not suprising 
that the sound is messed if you aren't.

Get the "D" fix. Its the latest...although an "E" fix is due out soon.
You can get the fixes from an FTP site or Spectrum Holobyte can mail you one.
From: hchong@netcom.com (Hoi Chong)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
Subject: Re: ATP commands
Date: 15 Oct 92 14:38:43 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

From article <1992Oct14.173650.28179@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>, by med2p@receptor.pharm.Virginia.EDU (Marc. Durieux):
> Hi there,
> 
> I got a copy of ATP from a friend to try out, and I have a few
> questions.  First, I tried running it on my old Leading Edge XT
> with a Hercules graphics system, but somehow my screen remains black.
> Sounds comes on alright, and I can quit the program with Alt-X, so
> it seems a pure graphics issue.  I loaded it on another machine with
> Herc, and it works OK.  ANybody had this happen before?  I run FS4
> on the LE without any problems (except speed :).

ATP requires EGA, and only EGA, period.  No if's, end's, or but's.
From: rab@ariel.its.unimelb.EDU.AU (Richard Alan Brown)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
Subject: Re: Available airports
Date: 16 Oct 92 01:41:45 GMT
Organization: School of Physics, University of Melbourne

In article <1992Oct15.022039.23975@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> rwalters@nyx.cs.du.edu (Russell Walters) writes:
>
>In either FS4 or ATP, is there any way to travel from one fairly small,
>unknown town to another? Oh, for instance, Lawrence, Ks to Yuma, Arizona?
>Are these towns available on an additional disk, if at all, or do you
>enter them through a scenery editor?
>
>Russell

On FS-4, if the town doesn't exist on the default scenery, you'd
need to use the scenery designer to 'make' it (with navaid so you
can find it!) On ATP there are *many* small towns (330) but unfortunately
there is no scenery designer. If you want to get to a small town that
does exist, and there are no navaids, all aircraft come with an inertial
navigation system. This also makes flights like LAX-HNL easier.


Alistair Scott
afs@tauon.ph.unimelb.edu.au
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
From: paulb@runx.oz.au (Paul Black)
Subject: Simulators
Organization: RUNX Un*x Timeshare.  Sydney, Australia.
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 92 11:52:22 GMT

I'm not sure if this is the correct newsgroup to post this message but it
seems to be the closest one I've come across so far. I'm working on the
design of a flight simulator/test rig for the Australian Air Force (RAAF). 
I would like to chat with some other people who are/have worked on flight
simulators or avionics test beds. I have a whole lot of issues coming up
that I would like to get other input on. Hope this works I''m still very
new to the net.

Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
From: tony@cns.nyu.edu (Tony Movshon)
Subject: Re: F.S 4.0
Reply-To: tony@cns.nyu.edu
Organization: New York University
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 19:01:12 GMT

In article JLK@scd.hp.com, albert@sc.hp.com (Albert Alcorn) writes:
> How well will FS 4.0 run on a 386, 20MHz with 2 meg ram and 120mb hard disk?

Well enough, especially if your graphics card (VGA for preference) is a
reasonably high-performance 16-bit card. On a 386SX/20, the difference between
an ATI VGA Wonder (very good) and a Trident something-or-other (much slower)
is very noticeable.

---
					Tony Movshon

Internet:  movshon@nyu.edu

US Mail:   Howard Hughes Medical Institute
	   Center for Neural Science
	   New York University
	   4 Washington Place, room 809
	   New York, NY 10003
From: rab@ariel.its.unimelb.EDU.AU (Richard Alan Brown)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
Subject: ATP utils for ftp
Keywords: scenery, utils
Date: 12 Oct 92 08:24:40 GMT
Organization: School of Physics, University of Melbourne


Ok...
	For those who are interested... I have put in pub/incoming/FS
	some neat ATP utilities and some Australian scenery for use
	with FS-4 (+ scenery designer) available via anonymous ftp
	from tauon.ph.unimelb.edu.au
	The ATP utils include a fuel burn calculator, a GREAT utility
	for working out flightplans between any two cities in the ATP 
	database, and a few other things.

	All files are zipp'd.... enjoy.

	Cheers
	AListair Scott
	afs@tauon.ph.unimelb.edu.au
	masquerading as richard brown rab@ariel.blah.blah


Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
From: rwalters@nyx.cs.du.edu (Russell Walters)
Subject: Available airports
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix @ U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 02:20:39 GMT


In either FS4 or ATP, is there any way to travel from one fairly small,
unknown town to another? Oh, for instance, Lawrence, Ks to Yuma, Arizona?
Are these towns available on an additional disk, if at all, or do you
enter them through a scenery editor?

Russell

Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
From: hchong@netcom.com (Hoi Chong)
Subject: Re: FS4, Aces o' Pacific, Falcon 3.0
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 15:03:44 GMT

From article <1992Oct12.030414.21721@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, by rwalters@nyx.cs.du.edu (Russell Walters):
> 
> I'm soon to get a 486/33 (to balance the ol' chekbook and do *productive*
> stuff on, dontcha know) and I'd like to hear any strong opinions on
> whether FS4, Falcon 3.0, or Aces o' the Pacific is the flight simulator to
> end all flight simulators.....or is there another that I don't know about.
> I'm coming from the land of the 4.77 Mhz Amiga, so I have no hands on
> experience with any. And my apologies to those who only wanted to discuss
> *real* and not desktop-based simulators in this discussion. A

SubLogic's ATP is one over FS4 (trust me).
Red Baron is pretty close to Aces of the Pacific if you like WWI stuff
(from the same company, same but older graphics engine, but different planes)
Velocity's Jet Fighter 2 if you like beautiful graphics and hates tunnel-
vision
Gunship 2000 from MPS is you like chopper (remember to get the latest patch)
The Wing Commander series if you like Starwars
From: tbruseha@hollywood.ems.cdc.com (Tom Brusehaver)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
Subject: Re: ATP utils for ftp
Summary: ftp sites.
Keywords: scenery, utils
Date: 12 Oct 92 22:31:18 GMT
Followup-To: tbruseha@ems.cdc.com
Organization: Empros Systems International, a division of Control Data

Are there any other FTP sites for FS4/ATP/etc. stuff?  I have heard
there is a bunch of stuff on Compuserve, but I havn't any access over
there.

I will keep track of 'em if you send them to me.

Tommy B.
From: pvf@alantec.com (Paul Fries)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
Subject: better parformance from little simulators
Date: 16 Oct 92 18:03:24 GMT
Distribution: rec

Speaking of massive parallelism and multiple displays and
such stuff makes me want to ask a question that I have
ponderred` for some time.

MS FS has long had the "multi-player" feature that allows
you to get information about another aircraft so as to
display it on your screen.

Why don't we suggest to MS to modify this to allow "slaved"
PCs that could act as display heads for the master.  You
"fly" the master, while the slaves get the
location/attitude data so that they can display the other
views that you would like.

Three machines could be pretty cool.  You could "fly" the
main machine while the extra machines give you the view to
the left and right, or whatever.  The more machines, the
better the view.  You could even think about dedicating one
machine to the simulation and other machines to the display
roles.  Thus maximizing performance in both areas.

(Of course, not everybody has multiple PCs.  But there must
be quite a few of us that could get our hands on several at
work and such.)

What do you think?

Paul Fries
pvf@alantec.com
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
From: pettypi@gaul.csd.uwo.ca (Carl Pettypiece)
Subject: Re: Any helicopter simulators out there?
Organization: Computer Science Dept., Univ. of Western Ontario, London, Canada
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1992 02:15:53 GMT

In article <1992Oct16.221620.15771@eff.org> peterco@eff.org (Peter Cohen) writes:
>I'm aware of LHX Attack Chopper from Electronic Arts.  That's on the PC
>and the Sega Genesis right now, and I imagine a Mac version can't be far
>off.  There's also Steel Talons from Tengen, now on Genesis, soon to be on
>PC.  There's another one for the PC, also, but it's name escapes me right
>now.  These follow more in the game route than simulator, however.

You have got to check out Gunship 2000 from Microprose.  It is
the best helicopter sim for the PC that I've seen, both in
general flight models and in playability.  It's not perfect, of
course, but it blows away LHX and anything else I've seen.
-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl Pettypiece (pettypi@gaul.csd.uwo.ca)        Disclaimer:  Hell, I don't
Department of Computer Science                   even know if these are MY
University of Western Ontario                    opinions!
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
From: hsingnan@csi.jpl.nasa.gov (Daniel H. Chang)
Subject: FS4.0-> Mac vs. Pc
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 01:14:38 GMT


I understand that the PC version of MS FS4.0 has some nice features that
the Mac version is missing- Scenary Designer, etc. Is someone out there
familiar enough with both versions to answer the following:

* what is the complete list of differences?

* when will this injustice be rectified by Microsoft, if ever?

-------------------

Also, has anyone run the new simulator Hellcats Over the Pacific 
on a middle of the road Mac like the SE/30 or IIsi w/ 68882 FPU?
If so, was the speed acceptable?

-------------------

Finally, has anyone heard of any (preferably public domain, though
I may be dreaming...) good flight simulators for Sparcs? I have this
nice powerful number cruncher on my desk with a big color monitor; it's
a real shame not to be able to fly on it...

Much thanx in advance to all who choose to share their wisdom. 

----------------------------------------------------------------------
| Dan Chang                     |   JPL Guidance & Control Section   |
| hsingnan@ivo.jpl.nasa.gov     |   Mail Stop 198-326                |
| Phone: (818) 354-1554         |   4800 Oak Grove Drive             |
| Fax: (818) 393-4440           |   Pasadena, CA 91109               |
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
From: laforce@xenon.arc.nasa.gov (Soren LaForce)
Subject: Re: Why not discuss "real simulators" here?
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA Ames Res. Ctr. Mtn Vw CA 94035
Distribution: rec
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 16:15:00 GMT

In article <HUOPIO.92Oct8135513@pyton.cc.lut.fi>, huopio@lut.fi (Kauto Huopio) writes...
>The articles so far in this group have been mainly about PC-based
>simulators. Why not share some ideas about the "big ones" ? Our
>university aviation club got a chance to visit Finnair Training
>Centre, where they have a reasonably good selection:
>DC-9
>DC-10
>ATR (several versions in one simulator)
>MD-80
>MD-11
> 
>We got about half an hour of MD-11 -time! A really nice simulator, I
>must say. Good daytime graphics and very realistic sound (the
>nosewheel coming up was very realistic). And MD-11 is a very easy
>plane to fly ;-)
> 
>--Kauto
>--

Probably because there aren't that many "real" simulators out there 
(compared to PC version, that is).

I work at NASA's Ames Research Center (ARC) in the Vertical Motion
Simulator (VMS) facility.  I could spend all day posting and not 
cover a fraction of what goes on here.

Anything in particular you want to hear about?


-Soren            laforce@xenon.arc.nasa.gov
From: tbruseha@hollywood.ems.cdc.com (Tom Brusehaver)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
Subject: ACM [was: Sun Aviator users??}
Summary: Fun, free, easy to fix.
Date: 9 Oct 92 19:28:37 GMT
Organization: Empros Systems International, a division of Control Data

ACM is a multi user X based F-16 vs Mig 2[13?] simulator.  It was
written on an SGI machine, but works well on Sun SPARC's, RS-6000's
and probably many other machines.  There are several pathes around
for it, and I heard someone was working on version 3.0.

I know it is on ftp.UU.NET:
pub/window-sys/X/contrib:
-rw-r--r--  1 archive    240457 Sep 21  1991 acm.2.4.tar.Z

Screen updates are awful on 386's (SCO Unix), Sun 3/[568]0's and
probably other non-risc machines.

(I have too many hours flying it to be objective, a friend nearly lost
his job because he had more hours than I on this game.)

Good Luck.
Tommy
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
From: k138836@cc.tut.fi (Korhonen Tommi)
Subject: Re: FS4, Aces o' Pacific, Falcon 3.0
Organization: Tampere University of Technology, Finland
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 09:08:23 GMT


As said before here: Go get all the three of them!
If you really ARE a flight sim enthusiastic, you will!

All are great sims on their own, FS4 for fying small planes,
Falcon for FAST heavy G jet fighting anf AOP for good dogfights.

PLUS you should consider GUNSHIP 2000 for a helicopter simulation,
it's a good one too, if you get far enough. The game gets bette and better
all the time, deeper you go...

The games are not excluding, they all represent different area.


-- 

It's TKorho above there, at k138836@cc.tut.fi
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
From: pricejoh@CS.ColoState.EDU (john russel price)
Subject: Trade Falcon 3.0 for F. A. ATP??
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 00:19:29 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University Computer Science, Industrial Technology


   Would anyone be interested in trading thier Flight Assignment ATP with
 documentation for my Falcon 3.0 With documentation? I just bought it 
 about a month ago but am more into the real world flight then the 
 fighter pilot dream world. Let me know.

 
-- 
John Price    email: pricejoh@handel.CS.Colostate.Edu
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators