HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: asylvain@felix.filenet.com (The Chipmunk)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: The Concord Principles
Date: 28 Aug 92 02:49:55 GMT
Reply-To: asylvain@fritz.filenet.com (The Chipmunk)
Organization: Foundation for the Increased Wealth of Chipmunks

Written in article <9208242245.AA15895@echidna.swdc.stratus.com>
 by lpb@STRATUS.SWDC.STRATUS.COM (Len Bucuvalas):

:    *Seventh*, the new democracy tool box

Sounds kinda like a software package for Windows 3.1, doesn't it?

: for working people contains
: rights of bringing ones conscience to work without having to risk
: being unfairly fired or demoted.  Ethical whistle-blowers have
: alerted Americans to numerous abuses in the workplace that damage
: workers health and safety, contaminate the environment, and defraud
: consumers, taxpayers, and shareholders.  However, they often pay the
: penalty with the loss of their jobs.  The exercise of conscience
: needs simple, effective legal protections which will build inside the
: corporation, government, or other large bureaucracies the incentives
: for care, prudence, and accountability that foresee or forestall
: larger harms.

Well, we can't expect Ralph to forget his trial lawyer friends.

Again, no plan for the implementation.  I don't see any effective way,
that doesn't promise to backfire into situations that are even worse.

Any suggestions?

:   *Eighth*, working people, who own over $3 trillion in pension
: monies, need a reasonable measure of control over where these monies
: are invested.

I'd like to know how investment principals get into a "democracy" tool
box.

-- 
The Chipmunk.
Opinions are mine, void where prohibited, taxed, licensed or regulated.
I haven't lost my mind -- it's backed up on tape somewhere.
From: GA.JRG@forsythe.stanford.edu (June Genis)
Subject: correction - Grand Opening - Genis for U.S. Senate HQ
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: ca
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 20:42:34 GMT

         Grand Opening - Genis for U.S. Senate Headquarters

                Thursday, September 3, 1992, 7-9 pm
                         1806 Market Street
                      San Francisco, CA  94102

Building is near the corner of Octavia and Market.  This is a pie
shaped block with Waller hitting Octavia just past Market.  If
you're driving you can take Market to Octavia to Waller and drive to
the end of the block where Waller dead-ends into the U.C. Extension
parking lot on Laguna.  Parking there is $3.00 for the whole evening
and they're open until 11 pm.

In addition to June Genis, Mary Gingell, National Chair of the
Libertarian Party will also be speaking.  Wine and cheese will be
served.  A $5.00 donation is suggested to cover expenses.  For
further information contact Jerry Pico at 415-554-0388.

People outside the Bay Area who wish to obtain campaign information
can call 1-800-894-JUNE.
From: jlodman@cs.ucsd.edu (Michael Lodman)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: Homosexual marriages
Date: 1 Sep 92 03:12:44 GMT
Organization: CSE Department, UC San Diego

In article <1992Aug28.010359.18057@Cadence.COM> phz@cadence.com (Pete Zakel) writes:
>The ONLY effective difference between the relationship that I am involved in
>and that of a homosexual couple is that my wife is of the other gender.  The
>fact that a couple who are in a committed homosexual relationship can't legally
>marry is STUPID, PREJUDICIAL, and a crying shame.

What's worse is that the government has no business deciding who can
and can't get married at all. Its role should be limited to the legal
ramifications of the standard contract; the warm bodies, in whatever
sexes and numbers desired, should provide themselves.

-- 
Michael Lodman	Department of Computer Science Engineering
	University of California, San Diego
jlodman@cs.ucsd.edu		      (619) 455-1500 x2627
Newsgroups: ca.politics
From: faigin@aero.org (Daniel P. Faigin)
Subject: Re: Recall for Gov. Wilson is ON!!!!
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
Distribution: ca
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 23:22:56 GMT

On 25 Aug 92 20:48:49 GMT, scott@fillorkill.Eng.Sun.COM (Scott Boyd) said:
> Neither Willie Brown or David Roberti can be recalled by the people
> of the state at-large. Only voters in their districts can recall them
> and I very much doubt that will happen with Willie Brown, though David Roberti
> may be more vulnerable. 

Actually, Roberti just got elected by a new district (I'm in his district),
outspending his Republican opponent, Carol Rowen, by three times as much.
Roberti took over Richard Katz's old seat. In any case, the selection wasn't
great: a Republican whose only saving grace was being pro-choice vs.
anti-choice (among his other faults) Roberti. I think this was one election I
voted Libertarian. In any case, it might be difficult to get him out unless
you get a good opponent.

Daniel
--
[W]:The Aerospace Corp. M1/055 * POB 92957 * LA, CA 90009-2957 * 310/336-8228
[Email]:faigin@aerospace.aero.org              [Vmail]:310/336-5454 Box#13149
   "You can't be a rationalist in an irrational world. It isn't rational!"
	       Dr. Rance, in Joe Orton's "What the Butler Saw"
Newsgroups: ca.politics,talk.politics.misc
From: tcox@netcom.com (Thomas Cox)
Subject: Re: Malcolm X (was Re: Gus savage is history)
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 92 01:10:46 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Distribution: usa

cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
>tcox@netcom.com (Thomas Cox) writes:

	[regarding Malcolm X]

># He said that black people should exercise their Second Amendment rights,
># buy guns, and defend themselves against the KKK.  This upset a lot of
># whites at the time.

>I suspect what upset people more was that he indicated that murdering
>white people because of their race was morally justified.  He should
>have stopped when he argued for self-defense against the KKK.

I have no indication of any such belief or stance on his part.  What is
your source?

Thanks in advance.

	-- Tom
-- 
Tom Cox      DoD #1776   '91 CB 750 Nighthawk   tcox@netcom.netcom.com
 This note is my exercise of my First Amendment right to make a fool of
 myself in public.  I do not speak for anyone but myself.  Ever.
Newsgroups: ca.politics
From: guido@island.COM (Guido Marx)
Subject: Re: Recall Gov. Pete Wilson
Organization: Island Graphics Corp.  Marin County, Ca.
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 23:15:36 GMT

In article <athos-250892094431@athos.apple.com> athos@apple.com (Rick Eames) writes:
>In article <1992Aug21.190731.7429@island.COM>, guido@island.COM (Guido
>Marx) wrote:
>> Calaveras County - KGO radio reporter Greg Jarett relayed a question to Wilson
>> which Jarett said was asked of him by a firefighter.  The question
>> was "what are you doing here when there still is no budget ?".
>
>Um, his job?

I suppose that you might consider posing for photos for the press
and trying to look gubinatorial part of his job, I would classify
it as being a pretty un-important part of his job though.  As far
as I can tell, all he needs to do to declare an area a disaster area
is to sign a decleration to that affect.

The point is that Wilson seems to be more interested in getting
photos which he will undoubtedly use for furthering his political
career, than in staying in Sacramento fulfilling his Constitutionally
mandated responsibilites.  All I can say is that we are damned lucky
that those firefighters take their responsibilites much more seriously than
Governor Wilson appears to take his.

Guido
From: ts@cup.portal.com (Tim W Smith)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: AB 2601 on the Governor's Desk
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 92 04:38:03 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

> 
> And you thought our friends in Sacramento were unable to get anything
> done?  Nonsense.  They can't get a budget out, but they managed to
> pass AB 2601, the gay rights bill.  Unlike last time, where they

I suspect that you already know this, and are just being obstinate, but
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.  The legislature *CAN* get a budget
out.  The legislature can't get one out that the Governor will sign.

Furthermore, do you expect them to grind to a halt while there is no
budget?  As long as the bulk of them are willing to work for IOUs while
the Governor and the legislative leaders work on the budget, why shouldn't
they be passing bills?

Do you object to other legislative activity while there is no budget, or
are you trying to imply that there is no budget because the legislature is
busy with gay rights bills?

--Tim Smith
Xref: sparky ca.politics:7440 talk.politics.misc:43757
From: kane@buast7.bu.edu (Hot Young Star)
Newsgroups: ca.politics,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Picking and Choosing our References
Date: 4 Sep 92 15:55:46 GMT
Followup-To: ca.politics
Organization: Astronomy Department, Boston University, Boston, MA, USA

In article <12132@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:

>In article <95203@bu.edu>, kane@buast7.bu.edu (Hot Young Star) writes:

># Funny, he didn't mention how it was standard practice for men of Judaic
># times to have not only a wife but several concubines, depending on their
># wealth. Promiscuity was accepted in Judaic times.

>No, polygamy was accepted, at least until the Babylonian exile.

Clayton, polygamy is culturally-blessed promiscuity.
Newsgroups: ca.politics
From: GA.JRG@forsythe.stanford.edu (June Genis)
Subject: Grand Opening - Genis for U.S. Senate HQ
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 18:57:23 GMT

         Grand Opening - Genis for U.S. Senate Headquarters

                Thursday, September 4, 1992, 7-9 pm
                         1806 Market Street
                      San Francisco, CA  94102

Building is near the corner of Octavia and Market.  This is a pie
shaped block with Waller hitting Octavia just past Market.  If
you're driving you can take Market to Octavia to Waller and drive to
the end of the block where Waller dead-ends into the U.C. Extension
parking lot on Laguna.  Parking there is $3.00 for the whole evening
and they're open until 11 pm.

In addition to June Genis, Mary Gingell, National Chair of the
Libertarian Party will also be speaking.  Wine and cheese will be
served.  A $5.00 donation is suggested to cover expenses.  For
further information contact Jerry Pico at 415-554-0388.

People outside the Bay Area who wish to obtain campaign information
can call 1-800-894-JUNE.
Xref: sparky ca.politics:7460 talk.politics.misc:43818
From: kane@buast7.bu.edu (Hot Young Star)
Newsgroups: ca.politics,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Stereotyping
Date: 4 Sep 92 20:18:49 GMT
	    <pab3824@fido.asd.sgi.com>
	    <12110@optilink.UUCP>
Followup-To: ca.politics
Organization: Astronomy Department, Boston University, Boston, MA, USA

In article <12110@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:

>You aren't the worst thing to worry about -- NAMBLA is.  But you
>shouldn't be surprised that this offends the hell out of most
>people.

Indeed, but you'd be surprised that the issue is not so black and
white as you'd first think.

For instance, Camille Paglia both excoriates radical feminism and
eulogizes the premature death of the "beautiful boy cult".

Camille Paglia is no PC stormtrooper. She is definitely a feminist,
but not of the variety that is in league with Helms et al., to wipe
out pornography as the "destroyer of women". Strange bedfellows, huh?
Anti-pornography feminists and right-wing evangelists. Paglia even
gets gay press backlash and is constantly accused of being homophobic,
especially lesbiphobic.

It appears that the reason that Paglia so brutalizes the current brand
of radical feminism is that it is so sex-negative. But that is the same
reason she defends pedophilia (at least on an intellectual level). 
Sex-negativism is responsible for our views on the sexual responsiveness
of adolescents; that all pornography is dirty; that women can't/won't/
don't enjoy sex.

Paglia also notes that most periods of profound social and intellectual
advancement have been coeval with more pronounce tolerance of male
homosexuality.

Brian
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
cramer@optilink.uucp (Clayton Cramer): Message-ID: <12133@optilink.UUCP>
I realize it's difficult for a person as depraved as [Brian Kane].
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
kane@{buast7,astro}.bu.edu (Hot Young Star) Astronomy Dept, Boston University,
Boston, MA 02215. True personal salvation is achieved by absolute faith in
ones true self.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Xref: sparky ca.politics:7395 talk.politics.misc:43439
From: norm@sdc.com (Norm Nithman)
Subject: Re: Clayton, You've missed an opportunity...
Organization: Systems Development Corporation
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 16:00:16 GMT

In article <11927@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
>
>By the way, Wuornos was molested as a child.  She grows up to be
>a lesbian and a murderer.  Is anyone surprised?
>
So what's your excuse?

Norm
From: asylvain@felix.filenet.com (The Chipmunk)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: Recall Gov. Pete Wilson
Date: 23 Aug 92 23:32:03 GMT
            <SLAGLE.92Aug13005815@sgi417.msd.lmsc.lockheed.com>
            <1992Aug18.171522.3923@island.COM>
            <1992Aug20.191536.5182@sco.com>
Reply-To: asylvain@fritz.filenet.com (The Chipmunk)
Distribution: ca
Organization: Foundation for the Increased Wealth of Chipmunks

Written in article <1992Aug20.191536.5182@sco.com>
 by evanh@sco.COM (Evan Hunt):

:
: Don't blame me, I voted for guido@island.COM (Guido Marx).
:> Allow me to suggest just a couple measures which would go a long 
:> way toward ensuring timely passage of a budget in future years.
:
: Here's one I'd like to see:  A constitutional requirement that no
: state taxes be collected for the period when the state has no budget.
:
: I love it that people are signing their uncashable IOU's back to the
: state for tax payments; I'd like to see the practice spread.

Yes, it's too bad we can't use IOU's when we pay sales taxes!

-- 
The Chipmunk.
Opinions are mine, void where prohibited, taxed, licensed or regulated.
Politicians lie, but it doesn't matter since voters don't listen.
From: pdb059@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov (Paul Bartholomew)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: My Purpose In Getting NAMBLA Shunned
Date: 26 Aug 92 12:28:31 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Image Processing Lab

In article <11846@optilink.UUCP>, manley@optilink.UUCP (Dave Manley) writes:

> Question: If these statements do in fact represent the beliefs of the
> people, both hetero- and homosexual alike, how can anyone who opposes
> child molestation find a way to support NAMBLA - when they refuse to
> moderate their position to at least exclude prepubescent children? 

First, there is a difference between "support" and "refusal to condemn".
When Clayton says that the gay community "supports" NAMBLA, he is really
referring to "refuses to condemn" NAMBLA.  Actually, he doesn't have
sufficient evidence to support either claim since there are any number
of gays who do condemn NAMBLA.

Second, you can support a group's right to exist, meet, and hold offensive
viewpoints, without agreeing with any of their views.  I do not support
NAMBLA's views and will actively campaign to prevent them from abolishing
age of consent laws.  Nevertheless, until they engage in illegal activities,
I will support their right to exist and hold these views.

There are any number of groups (and individuals) out there whose views I
find abhorrent (the KKK, skinheads, and Clayton Cramer, all come to mind).
I support their right to hold these views.  If this puts me in Clayton's
pro-NAMBLA file, then so be it.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Bartholomew          |   "The time has come, the walrus said, to talk of
                          |    many things..."                  Lewis Carroll
pdb059@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov   |   Disclaimer:  Opinions?  What opinions?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Xref: sparky ca.politics:7397 talk.politics.misc:43440
From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: ca.politics,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Stereotyping
Date: 2 Sep 92 19:26:03 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <pab3824@fido.asd.sgi.com>, dauber@sgi.com (Jeff Dauber) writes:
> In article <12043@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
# #Actually, the tape I saw had a float with at least six men on it,
# #some of them masturbating while using whips.  Of course, Jeff Dauber's
# #Dancing Dong (as it was whimsically called in soc.motss) played a
# #prominent role in the repeal of the Concord Gay Rights ordinance.
# 
# I was on the float... However, there were no whips on that float.  There
# as one person who was masturbating through is shorts on our float, and it
# caused an outrage in the gay community (I have a clippings file if you
# are interested).  There were not six people dancing naked with whips
# masturbating as you seem to report.

I wasn't clear.  This wasn't on the same float as you.

# And, frankly, if I am the worst thing that the gay community has to offer,
# I don't think you have much to worry about.

You aren't the worst thing to worry about -- NAMBLA is.  But you
shouldn't be surprised that this offends the hell out of most
people.

# FWA


-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
Alcohol prohibition didn't work; drug prohibition doesn't work; gun
prohibition won't work.
From: dauber@sgi.com (Jeff Dauber)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: Homosexual marriages
Date: 26 Aug 92 21:00:45 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.

In article <1992Aug26.185717.24151@jack.sns.com> jsb@jack.sns.com (Jim Best) writes:

>> You are full of shit, asshole.
>
>        Well this isn't the most intelligent thing you have ever said,
>        or is it just the lack of vocabulary???

I tend to have a large vocabulary.  It tends to include vulgarity.  Do you
have an issue with that?


>        What is this fixation you have with anal/feces matters?

As a student of slang, I would like to point out that vulgarity in the 
english language has always been associated with anal/fecal matters.  It
has been the case since th 1500s.  Want a long dissertation on the history
of vulgarity in the English language?  I have a 25 page term paper from
many years ago which discusses this.

> should
>        I assume that it's a product of your being homosexual?

Only if you are a bigot.

> Do all
>        things in your life lead you to contemplate this area of the human
>        anatomy. You disagree with the above statement I take it, yet all
>        you can talk about in responds is the anus and excrement!!

Learn a little about language before making such a stupid statement.

FWA
Xref: sparky ca.politics:7034 ca.environment:817 ba.politics:4755
From: lpb@florida.swdc.stratus.com (Len Bucuvalas)
Newsgroups: ca.politics,ca.environment,ba.politics
Subject: Re: "Ecofascists" In Action
Keywords: Pollution, Volunteerism, Environment
Date: 25 Aug 92 17:04:56 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc., San Jose, CA

In article <8203.21956@stratus.SWDC.Stratus.COM> bruce@godzilla.swdc.stratus.com (Bruce Overby) writes:
>Some on these groups have derided the activities of what at
>least one has called "ecofascists," environmentalists who
>serve as watchdogs and hassle companies and individuals who
>harm the environment. As I understand it, the problem these
>naysayers have with environmental activists is that they
>seek to restrict what an individual does with his or her
>private property, thereby depriving that individual of his
>or her constitutional rights. With that as background, I'd
>like to bring up an article in this month's Smithsonian
>magazine entitled, "Frisco's `baykeeper' has had it up to
>here with polluters."
>
>The article describes a voluteer organization in San
>Francisco called "BayKeeper," which is made up of about 300
>"sailors, birders, windsurfers, fishermen, dockworkers,
>corporate VIPs and binocular-weilding retirees" who "are all
>angry over the (ecological) decline of San Francisco Bay."
>In general, this organization's members, many of which take
>classes on water-quality laws and bacterial sampling, move
>around the bay in boats (either their own or the single craft
>owned by the organization) and watch for illegal activities on
>the part of bayside companies and fishermen that lead to
>pollution in the bay. Here is a sample, reprinted from the
>article without permission:

...... [etc] .....
>
>Thoughts? Comments?
>
>-------------------------------------------------
>Bruce Overby
>Stratus Computer, Inc.
>San Jose, CA
>
>
>"Get at dem beans!"  -- Hoss Cartwright
>
>My opinions may not reflect those of my employer.
>--------------------------------------------------
>
>
First I heartily support the efforst of people who turn any
business entity that unlawfully dumps toxic and non-toxic
waste in areas which are not zoned for it.

In my view, this is a direct effect of the republican
executive and democrat congress bending over backwards to
please their individual PACs.  As long as our some what
corrupted federal govrnment continues to breach their laws
regarding the clean-up of the environment simply to gain
political favor among the various corporate business groups in
this country, we will continue to watch the poisoning and
rape of our land and the consequent health decline of our public.

Len

DISCLAIMER: My opinions may be my own but hopefully in this
election year they represent the opinions of the majority of
the voting block! .. oh yeah...they also do not represent
those of my employer...he has his own and I dont know them!
From: asylvain@felix.filenet.com (The Chipmunk)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: Prop. 13 and California's fiscal crisis
Date: 2 Sep 92 19:00:06 GMT
            <1992Aug31.190040.28648@ultra.com>
Reply-To: asylvain@fritz.filenet.com (The Chipmunk)
Distribution: ca
Organization: Foundation for the Increased Wealth of Chipmunks

Written in article <1992Aug31.190040.28648@ultra.com>
 by wayne@ultra.com (Wayne Hathaway):

: dbailey@wk49.nas.nasa.gov (David H. Bailey) quotes from the San Jose
: Mercury News:
:
:> When I moved to California, 25 years ago, our state could boast the
:> best public schools.  California had the best state university and
:> community college system.  Our highway system was superb.  Our
:> criminal justice and penal systems were renowned.  Our public parks
:> were considered the best in the nation.  Now that Jarvis-Gann has
:> taken full effect, the Golden State can no longer boast even top 20
:> status in any meaningful category that measures the quality of life.
:
: Would anybody happen to know the PERCENTAGE of state revenues that
: were spent on education 25 years ago compared with today?  Likewise
: for the highway system, criminal justice system, parks, and so forth.

For what it's worth, I understand that roughly 10% of the population in
California is on welfare or some other form of state-supported relief.

Think about it ... that's ONE in TEN people.

Then think about the massive burocracy required to administer it.  I
have heard, without any independent verification, that around the late
'70's, early '80's, welfare recipients cost taxpayers $35k/year EACH.

Was the ratio 1 in 10 25 years ago?  Wish I knew.

-- 
The Chipmunk.
Opinions are mine, void where prohibited, taxed, licensed or regulated.
Anyone who hates dogs and kids can't be all bad.  -- W. C. Fields