From: payne@ecf.toronto.edu (PAYNE DENISE JOYCE)
Subject: Re: isn't it funny how...
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 05:52:02 GMT

In article <3NcDqB1w164w@sys6626.bison.mb.ca> tlc@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (the lovecat) writes:
>Isn't it funny how...
> 
>1.  Everybody who wasn't weaned on Throbbing Gristle is a poseur 
>    (according to the self-proclaimed 'purists').
>2.  Industrial music is only good if the poseurs aren't listening to it.
>3.  The 'purists' seem to be the most cynical and obnoxious people here.
>4.  Your opinion doesn't matter unless you're a 'purist'.
>5.  Any artist who sells records is selling out. 
 
1. Everybody who wasn't weaned on real industrial and pretends they know
something about it is a poseur.
 
2. Industrial music is only good if poseurs dont rename "industrial".
 
3. The purists ARE the most cynical people here.
 
4. Your FACTUAL ACCOUNTS about real industrial dont matter unless you know
what you're talking about.
 
5. Any artist who sells out is selling out.

>These are just things I've noticed.. I would hope that there are true 
>industrial fans out there who are sympathetic to those who are 
>discovering the music, and that the 'purists' would wise up and realise 
>that in some places it's damn near impossible to get stuff, and no matte 
>how much you're into the scene there is stuff you will never hear of...
 
I let people listen to it. In fact, I ENCOURAGE it. I have made many mixed
tapes of samples of industrial for a few people on my BBS and my friends, yet
alot of them cant find even one thing from the huge range of stuff on 2 90min
tapes that they like, unless it was the new Die Form == Fla cloneage.
 
I dont know WHAT you were talking about when you said:

>ie: Tactical Neural Implant has been on order for me at 3 different
>stores for 4 months +.. and the only one that got it in is selling it for
 
What. Isnt that FLA? Are you telling me that you're trying to get into 
the "real"/"purist" industrial by getting into FLA? Wrong.
 
There's something wrong here. Mebbe we do know something, cause we sure
rant enough like asshole about it. I guess that means you dont have to
listen to us, and there are several of us, some more subtle than I,
who have pointed out many many many times which bands are really experimental
and adhere to the IDEAS behind real industrial (its not just the music,
please remember), YET, since you're righter than us, since we dont know 
anything, you're gonna do it via FLA? You can do it any way you want, but
save your money and get something else. Get some Test Dept. Even some
Die Form. Get some Neubauten. Get some Controlled Bleeding, Nurse With
Wound. Get some Zeni Geva. These have all been mentioned before.
 
And its NOT expensive. In Toronto we have pretty good distribution of hard
to find stuff, yet it's STILL cheaper to mail order it, from people such
as Mason. (He runs Charnel House and he's posted his catalog here many
times, ask me and I will post it again.) You can ask people here for alot
and they'll give you the info. I have several files on industrial labels
with addresses, and even some catalogs. Get the info, write them, get the
catalog, ask us what "x" and "y" sound like with comparisons to bands you
understand, and we'll tell you our opinions. 
 
Then comes the hard part, and THIS ALONE will seperate the poseurs from
the "elite" - BUY SOMETHING. No, you DONT know EXACTLY what it sounds like,
but it seems like it might be cool, so BUY IT
 
This might be a LITTLE expensive. Find the nearest used record store. Browse
and buy anything that LOOKS cool and is on one of those labels in the list.
If you dont like it, resell and lose a buck or three. If you find something
good, then you got it for a steal. I've discovered over 1/3 of the bands
I listen to this way. 80% of the rest comes from asking people on Nm List
and reading their reviews. The remainder from college shows and friends.
 
If you dont open your mind, then you wont get anywhere. We're allowed to
be closed minded about industrial now cause there's not too much stuff
that I havent heard that's not close to something else I've heard. This
is why I'm growing a bit tired of all the new "real" industrial bands
coming up and realising that even if its cool, some is still total
crap. (Sorry, but Masonna and Hijokaidan are just fucking screeching
noise. A full LP of that? stupid. a 12" mebbe. ONE 12". but not three
LPs.) So now I'm getting into grunge industrial/core, more popular stuff
like Lush/MBV/Helmet/Rollins as well as rap. And I keep my open mind over
there.
 
/kc
Ken P. Chasse
sizone!skull_saws_for_open_minds@ee.ryerson.ca
via payne@ecf.toronto.edu
 (my open mind blows bigger breezes than her open mind, etc.)
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