From: masuda@fcs280b.ncifcrf.gov (Michiaki Masuda)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: Japan
Date: 13 Aug 92 22:29:21 GMT
Distribution: soc
Organization: Frederick Cancer Research and Development Center

This posting includes replies to two postings.

In article <Aug.11.13.31.53.1992.16390@gandalf.rutgers.edu> junglee@gandalf.rutgers.edu (Jung S. Lee) writes:
>In article <3703@fcs280s.ncifcrf.gov>, masuda@fcs280b.ncifcrf.gov (Michiaki Masuda) writes:

>I know by fact that Japan did compensated S. Korea in the means of
>loan suggested by U.S.A. around 1970s(not sure about the period)
>But there weren't any apology with it.At that time, Korea wasn't
>willing to take the loan but Korean gov't did any way(I don't know the
>inside story of this). 

   Does it mean that the government's decision or poicy does not necessarily
reflect the nation's or people's consensus? 

>Later someone from Cabinet gave a speech which was
>supposed  to include an apology in Korea. But that wasn't up to Korean
>people's expectation(lots of them thought that wasn't an apology,
>rather some kind of regret). 

   I read that Prime Minister Takeshita (1989) and Prime Minister Kaifu (1990)
expressed regret and apology to "(all the) people of the Korean Peninsula".
I also read that Vice Prime Minister Kanamaru expressed apology when he visited
North Korea in 1990.
   President of North Korea is said to have told a leader of Japan 
Socialist Party that some people of the Japanese authority were making
an appreciable speech (regarding the WWII problems).

>I do understand your situation. But those who are murderers and
>rapists cannot get away with what they had done PERIOD.

   Japanese war criminals went through judgment.
 
>I doubt that my parents and
>grandparents are ready for sincere apology from your parents and
>grandparents even if they come up with.

   "Apologize them, but they'll not accept it." Is that what you mean? 
That would cause "learned helplessness" among Japanese.

=============

This one was under the subject title:
Re: Mimana Theory Revisted (due to the Nara tombs being excavated)

In article <Aug.10.19.36.08.1992.27385@gandalf.rutgers.edu> junglee@gandalf.rutgers.edu (Jung S. Lee) writes:
>In article <3697@fcs280s.ncifcrf.gov>, masuda@fcs280b.ncifcrf.gov (Michiaki Masuda) writes:
>> In article <Aug.7.17.04.55.1992.15447@gandalf.rutgers.edu> junglee@gandalf.rutgers.edu (Jung S. Lee) writes:
>> .....
.....
>> >  I can
>> >  forgive them and have a happy relationship with them as long as they
>> >  come to me and say "I am sorry".  
>> .....
>> 
>>   This would also mean that he cannot have a happy relationship with Japanese
>> unless the Japanese government comes to HIM and apologizes.
>> 
>>    I wonder how old this gentleman was in 1945.
>> 
>	What does my age have anthing to do with this?

   You've already given an answer to yourself. (See below)

>	And about your argument, what happen if someone bigger than
>	you are steals your property, wife and children?
.....

    Probably, you've missed my point in my previous posting.
I'm not arguing and I've never argued against the importance of apology.
Since your message seemed to be claiming that you deserve the apology
from the Japanese government, I tried to challenge the validity of this claim
assuming that you are postwar generation.

>	Hey, I don't expect you come to me and apologize for what your
>	parents did nor your parents come to me and apologize for what
>	they did to my parents.
>	What I expect is the apology from your parents or grandparents
>	to apologize to my parents and grandparents.

    This is the answer. (See above.)

>>   What he mentioned about the modification of history textbooks and the lack
>    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >  of appropriate apology by the Japanese government is more or less true. This   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>  would deserve the name of "arrogance", and I don't believe that this is the 
>>  way it should be.
>
>	Would you like me to dig up old newspapers and find it out for you?
>	Japanese gov't put incorrect historical facts with Korea as
>	well as with China on Japanese history textbooks for middle(?) and
>	high schools. And that caused some problems among three
>       countries. 

    Please read carefully the sentence that you underlined.

>  Perhaps your media didn't report them. It happened
>	more than once for sure.

   Japanese media did and do report them. "Ienaga case" is a famous one.

>	I could response to you faster if I knew where this was posted.
>	I read the previous article before mine in soc.culture.korean
> 	newsgroup, and I thought it would be posted there. But it wasn't. 
>	So I thought It got lost in the middle

   You don't have to respond fast, but please make sure where you are
sending your message in order not to waste the bandwidth 8-).

>	Yes, I am twenty something. 
>	As I said above, MY PARENTS OR I DO NOT EXPECT YOU COME TO US
>	AND APOLOGIZE. I WILL EMPHASIZE AGAIN, I WANT YOUR PARENTS OR
>	GRANDPARENTS WHO MADE MY PARENTS SUFFER SO MUCH COME TO THEM
>	,NOT ME, AND APOLOGIZE FOR BETTER AND HAPPY RELATIONSHIP.

   This raises another question.
   What is the definition of "MADE MY PARENTS SUFFER"?
Ordering and administrating the actions that led to the atrocities? 
Directly participating in the atrocities? Failure to speak up against
the gevernment policy? Just being Japanese during WWII?
   Probably, one of the reasons why Japan has not shown a clear-cut and 
straigthforward attitude reagrding this "apology" issue is that not only 
the postwar generation but also many older Japanese cannot tell exactly
how they are responsible for what they were not involved directly.
I wonder if your parents could tell how my parents were resposible for
their suffering. Personally, I think that would be great if your
parents, my parents, you and I could have dinner together and exchange
our memory and opinion.  

>	BUT my history teachers never taught me to go to Japanese
>	gov't and beg. I was told to be competetive and stronger so
>	that this kind of tragedy won't happen again. 
>	And It won't again. 

   Good education. Seems to have something in common with the Japanese
education. However, if you look at Japan who is now pretty competitive
and strong (well, at least economically), you'll realize that just being
competitive and strong is not sufficient for a truely peaceful and friendly
international relationship.

>	What happened to so called "comfort girls"?
....

   As I mentioned before, I'm not in total agreement with the way that 
the Japanese government handles the WWII-related problems.

>	I truly hope we can build better relationship with proper
>	apology from your parents to my parents.
>	Without it, The wound is so deep that I very much doubt that
>	there will be any good relationship among us.
.....

  Then, maybe I should give up all the good relationships that I
have with my Korean friends. 

>	Have you seen Olympic marathon yet? Wouldn't it be nice to see
>	Korean and Japanese people cheering for both runners? After all, we
>	should have been like brothers.

   I was working in the lab and missed the marathon game. 

Yes, not only Koreans and Japanese but we ALL should have been like
brothers and sisters. And I believe that we can be some day. 

>SEnd THem all to me. Don't waste bandwidth trying to flame over my
>article. It is useless, as you know.

   Calling all the potings that criticize or oppose your opinion as
a "flame" may not be the wisest thing to do.
   You've already responded in public to what you regarded as a waste of
bandwidth and you also replied in the thread which derived from the "useless."
   Maybe, it was my mistake to have responded to your posting without
changing the subject title. But not any more.

Michiaki Masuda
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan,soc.culture.china,soc.culture.hongkong,soc.culture.taiwan