From: kumagic@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (Stephen R. Figgins)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: I Care! (was Re: Who cares)
Date: 22 Jul 92 23:24:06 CDT
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

In article <1992Jul22.162138.23006@linus.mitre.org>, heimberg@pacific.mitre.org (Jeff Heimberger) writes:

> 
> It's funny, I didn't think my reaction was extreme at all... perhaps
> "extremeness" is in the eye of the beholder?

Most likely.  

> 
>>I recognise my part in maintaining systems of oppression.  I do what I
>>can, when I can, to remove myself from them.  That doesn't always
>>[...]
> 
> Yes, but release yourself from your (apparent) burden of guilt.
> Release other men from the blame.  Learn from the past, but live for
> today and the future.

Why should I feel at all guilty about this?  I don't understand this
obsession with guilt you have.  Mostly I feel anger.  Anger at being
made a part of a system I didn't create, and want no part of.  Anger
at not being able to disentangle myself from the whole rotten mess of
it.  Anger towards those who refuse to see the connections, or try to
cover them up. 

Which is not to say that I am a very angry kind of guy.  Its just I am
more likely to feel anger than I am to feel guilt.  I do feel kind of
bad about not recycling more, but I just don't know where to take some
of this stuff.  No one seems to want my paper, and not all of my
plastics are welcome. 

But why should I go around feeling guilty?  Why should you?  Get out
of the guilt thing Jeff.  I mean, we're pagan after all.  Isn't guilt
something we were supposed to have left behind?  Sure I play a part in
the system, I bear some responsibility.  That responsibility is good
in a way though.  If I lived in some kind of vaccum I would have no
way to really affect the system.  Recognizing my responsibility lets
me do something to change the system.  It points out a way for me to
take action.  And sometimes, just sometimes, it shows me a way to
throw a wrench in there, and maybe wake up a few more people.
Responsibility does not equal Guilt.  I'll be damned before I will feel
all guilty about it.  When I see it, I will try to change it. 

> I agree.  It is a crime for men to father children and then not take
> responsibility for their needs.  However, I wonder how strident the
> legal system would be if the father had custody and the mother didn't
> pay child support?  Another thing that upsets me is the almost
> unwavering award of custody to the mother.  The father has to show that
> the mother is a really *bad* person, before he's even considered.

That doesn't bother me so much.  But remember, I am a female
supremacist, and I think men are basically scum.  So what do I know?


>>I find men are more likely to hurt me, rob me, kill me, discount my
>>experiences, interrupt me.  And if I feel that way, I can only imagine
>>how women feel.  I am going to treat men cautiously until I can judge
>>them as an individual.  It is safer that way.  I am sorry for the men,
>>like you who are inadvertantly harrassed like this.  When there is no
>>time to find out what each individual is like, I am going to make some
>>assumptions based on what the majority is like, and modify it later if
>>need be.  
> 
> Using this technique, I guess I should be particularly careful of
> young, black men?  Of people that look like they're from the Middle
> East -- could be terrorists.  Maybe that red-head is a member of the
> IRA?  I prefer to let what's inside a person tell me how they are as a
> human, rather than what's outside.  It's risky at times, but I think
> it's worth the risk.

Depending on where I am at, I am more careful of young black men.  I
am not so afraid of Middle Eastern men, but I would advise a young
woman considering dating one to be cautious.  I am not English, so I
am not too concerned with IRA.  I have met members of the IRA and of
the PLO.  They are pretty interesting people.  It was a good thing I
wasn't Jewish. 

Looks affect my initial reactions to a person.  They always have.  I
admit it.  When I wander through hicksville I keep my Pentacle on the
inside of my shirt.  No sense in getting the shit kicked out of me
just because I didn't want to judge someone based on looks.  I'll pull
it out when I get back to the city.  There are places it is dangerous
to be pagan.  There are places it is dangerous to be white.  And
almost everywhere it is dangerous to be a woman, and it's not other
women who are the threat.

-- 
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Stephen R. Figgins           |  There was an old woman
kumagic@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu   |  Who lived under the hill 
PO Box 1244                  |  And if she's not gone 
Lawrence, KS 66044	     |  She lives there still
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