HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tara@starburst.umd.edu (Tara McDermott)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Milk and calcium (here we go again)
Date: 26 Jan 1993 18:54:37 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, Chesapeake Biological Laboratory
NNTP-Posting-Host: starburst.umd.edu

levin@world.std.com (Levin F Magruder) writes:

>Finally, a question.  It's my impression that currently, people with
>greater incomes tend to eat less animal protein than poorer people.
>For example, I own three major metropolitan radio stations, two cruise
>lines, one of the three largest long distance carriers, the Boeing
>Corporation, Cray, Mitsibushi, and Nabisco.  I control and reap over
>90% of the profits of the so-called "cocaine cartel."  My annual
>income is over 275 million trillion dollars a year.  I eat nothing but
>millet and parsly.  My parents, on the other hand, are destitute, and
>live in a two room apartment in a slum in Waltham, Mass.; their only
>income is from Social Security and digging returnable cans out of the
>trash.  And they eat at McDonald's twice a week.

Wow. You're that rich?  Can I have some?  

Seriously, I don't think you're correct.  Everyone in my family is
fairly well off and they all eat meat at every meal (or just about).
But all the vegetarians/vegans that I know are poor.  They are all all
of college age or just past college age.  I think that most people who
become vegetarian are those who learn about it in college.  These
younger people have an open mind, and are eager to learn things, such
as the benefits of a meat-free diet.  As well, younger people are more
concerned, in general, than the older population, about the
environment.  But then again, many older people who have had heart
attacks, heart surgery or who are prime suspects for heart attacks are
warned and sometimes become vegetarian or eat a mostly vegetarian diet
just to stay alive.  So who knows?  I still believe that most
vegetarians are poor college students who don't care about being
lawyers, doctors, or what have you.  They would rather be happy and
live a full life, closer to the natural state, even if poor.  I think
they tend to be much less materialistic than meat-eaters who believe
in the "American Dream". 

>levin@world.std.com

Tara

--
Tara McDermott               
tara@starburst.umd.edu       
I eat tofu, and I vote.
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: levin@world.std.com (Levin F Magruder)
Subject: Re: "MANLY" food ***
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 18:20:51 GMT

thmiley@sol.cs.wmich.edu (Tim Miley) writes:
>I find it rather amusing in a pathetic sort of way.  The commercials might as
>well just come out and say the truth: "Heart disease: the Manly Way to Die."
>;^)

Perhaps it will be a few years before there are readers here too young
to remember, but LET US NEVER FORGET:

About 5 years ago, James "rockford files" Gar(d?)ner was doing a LONG,
OBNOXIOUS (worse than ALL CAPS) series of ads with the slogan "Beef --
real food for real people" and, while or shortly after he was the most
visible spokesman for the industry, he needed quadruple or quintuple
bypass surgery.

And, to the best of my knowlege, the irresponsible comics at
SatNightLive never made any mention of this.  Further proof of
meat tycoons' conspiracy to control the consumer's mind.


Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: zaphod@ctrg.rri.uwo.ca (Lance R. Bailey)
Subject: Re: Meat analogues vs. Meat replacements, a gourmet perspective
Reply-To: zaphod@ctrg.rri.uwo.ca
Organization: University of Western Ontario
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 11:55:34 GMT

In article <1993Jan27.014925.16481@midway.uchicago.edu> mad4@ellis.uchicago.edu  
(Bill Maddex) writes:

>For new vegs out there, and those of you worried about feeding your kids, my
>advice is just be adventurous.  If you don't cook anything but Not Dogs for
>six months after giving up flesh, get a cookbook.  There are more edible
>plants than animals, so why the hell try to turn the former into the latter?

amen. when/as i gave up meat i never really looked to replacements - tofu dogs/
burgers/cutlets/chicken to supplement my food. to date, the only 'replacements'
i use are TVP (lest i end up with tomato soup for my pasta) and Yves burgers
because they happen to be a great meal at the restaurant i frequent.

i think this is because i came at vegetarianism from the health aspect. eating
meat products did not appeal to me because of the chemicals (natural and 
unnatural) in them. so chicken/fish/burgers/weiners did not appeal to me. it 
was not the approach where i felt "gee i love chicken/fish/burgers/weiners,
but not killing animals, so how can i eat them without eating them.

I'm not trying to sound superiour, these are just my reasons, your 
reasons for becoming vegetarian are as valid as mine, maybe more.

--
Lance R. Bailey  System/Network Manager         Robarts Research Institute
     NeXT/email: zaphod@ctrg.rri.uwo.ca    box: Clinical Trials Resources Group
            fax: +1 519 663 3789                P.O. Box 5015, 100 Perth Dr.
            vox: +1 519 663 3787 x4108          London, Canada N6A 5K8
Lance's Law:nothing works. Lee's Corrollory:Once,something worked-but it broke.
From: red_trek@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Hearty Chili Con Corn
Date: 24 Jan 93 11:23:09 -0500
Organization: Carnegie Mellon Computer Club

Hmm--whatever problem there was before seems to have been fixed
now, so I'll go ahead and post seven more recipes after this one
(all typed in w/o permission from this booklet thing printed/
distributed by the North American Vegetarian Society -- "Vegetarianism
: Answers to the most commonly asked questions")

HEARTY CHILI CON CORN

1 cup dried kidney beans
4 cups water
1 cup frozen corn
1 onion, chopped
1 clove garlic, pressed
1 teaspoon salt
1 Tablespoon vegetable oil
1 1/2 cups tomato sauce
1 1/2 Tablespoons chili powder
1 teaspoon cumin

Soak kidney beans in water overnight.  Cook for 1 1/2 hours.
Saute onion and garlic in oil, add seasonings, tomato sauce and
corn.  Simmer 15 minutes.  Add tomato mixture to cooked kidney
beans and stir.  Simmer.  Serve over rice.
-----------

[Note:  it won't taste as good, and it'll usually come with
sodium, artifical preservatives, etc., but if you're in a hurry,
you can always use canned beans.  2 cups cooked/canned beans =
1 cup dried beans.]
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: thmiley@sol.cs.wmich.edu (Tim Miley)
Subject: Re: "MANLY" food ***
Organization: Western Michigan Univ. Comp. Sci. Dept.
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 17:54:05 GMT

guest@voyager3.sdsu.edu (Guest User) writes:

>Is beef a 'Manly' diet ? One thing I notice from this newsgroup and my
>personal experience, more women are switching to vegetarian diet than
>men. Is it the conditioning of the western society that it is masculine
>to eat meat in general and red meat in particular ? I see that in
>advertisements. Men eat beef and other red meat while women are 
>portrayed as eating chicken and salad. I see a strong gender bias
>in this meat eating society. I find men associate beef eating with
>power and strength and hence a macho thing to do. I don;t blame them
>from a young age they are exposed to the doctrines of the beef
>board with slogans like 'Beef gives strength' and garbage like that.
>Beliefs handed down for generations are hard to shake off. 
>Women on the other hand seems to be on the average, more 
>sensible and practical. Many men seems to have been brainwashed
>into associating meat with being macho. Though fortunately, lots
>of men are seeing the light now.

>S

I find it rather amusing in a pathetic sort of way.  The commercials might as
well just come out and say the truth: "Heart disease: the Manly Way to Die."
;^)

Read "The Sexual Politics of Meat" by Carol J. Adams.  It's an excellent book
explaining the phenomenon of meat and sexuality.  I highly recommend it.

Tim
-- 
thmiley@cs.wmich.edu      (Timothy H Miley)
Computer Science Major
Western Michigan University
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: molnar@Bisco.CAnet.CA (Tom Molnar)
Subject: Re: "MANLY" food ***
Organization: UTCS Campus Access
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 20:18:18 GMT

In article <1jihnsINNl6j@pandora.sdsu.edu> guest@voyager3.sdsu.edu (Guest User) writes:
# Is beef a 'Manly' diet ? One thing I notice from this newsgroup and my
# personal experience, more women are switching to vegetarian diet than
# men.

Perhaps women are more compasionate.  Men may be more hedonistic.  Perhaps
men are more gullible to commercial adverisments and repress their compassion.

It has been pointed out to me that I've changed a great deal since turning
strict vegetarian.  Less aggressive, quieter, more reflective, almost subdued.
*I* haven't noticed, but everyone around me has.

Somewhere I read that a western style diet from child birth results in
increased physical size.  To support the argument they presented data
showing increased physical size (height and girth) of Japanese of
recent generations.  They relate that to the shift in their traditional
diet.  I have a gut feeling that a meat eating diet during the
formative years does result in increased physical size, but I have no
facts on hand to back that up.  I believe the tradeoff is a shorter lifespan
and increased chances of disease.  I also seem to recall reading something
that referred to a study that fed something equating to a high-protein
high-fat diet to rats and found that they were larger and more agressive than
those who were fed the equivalent of a lowprotein lowfat and low(er) calorie
diet.  The latter lived longer apparently.

I think I'd take longevity over size and strength if given a choice.

Tom
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg,misc.health.alternative,sci.med.nutrition
From: jz27@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Jeff Zucker)
Subject: Re: [Question] Side Effects of Valerian?agg
Reply-To: jz27@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Jeff Zucker)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 02:39:57 GMT

In response to the poster who asked about a more palatable way to take
valerian (having gagged on the tea...): two suggestions.  One, try
tincture rather than tea.  Two, try fresh as well as dry valerian.

I've found that valerian tincture (i.e., a concentrated alcohol-based
extract of valerian) tastes GOOD!  It can be made from either dry or fresh
roots of the valerian plant, and although both processes are effective,
they taste quite different.  When I used to grow valerian and had access
to the fresh roots, I enjoyed chewing on them and couldn't understand why
valerian's taste/smell was always maligned - but different tinctures are quite
different - so try tinctures made from both fresh and dry herb - and
compare.

Betsy
From: chuck@ssc.space.umn.edu (Chuck Tomlinson)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Nutrional Content of Mushrooms
Date: 27 Jan 93 18:44:35 GMT
Article-I.D.: news2.C1J02D.n27
Organization: Space Science Graphics/U of M
X-Xxmessage-Id: <A78C35FB39018312@sheplabs08.space.umn.edu>
X-Xxdate: Wed, 27 Jan 93 10:52:11 GMT
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d12

This is the first time I've ever read, let alone posted to this group.
I'm posting on behalf of my girlfriend who's curious about the
nutritional content/benefits/detriments of mushrooms. For whatever
reason, she hasn't been able to find out in the normal stuff she reads,
etc. Any help is appreciated. Please e-mail responses to me directly.

P.S. - having read the World Guide to veg. store/restaurants, the
listings for Minneapolis/St. Paul are woefully inadequate. I'll see what
I can do to help. For starters, the Co-op mentioned on Lyndale Ave. is
called The Wedge.

chuck
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar)
Subject: Calcium: intro
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 21:10:14 GMT


INTRODUCTION:  The following topics are briefly covered in the
following postings.


      I  Exogenous Factors Affecting AbsorptioN
     II  Exercise: A Key Factor For Increasing Absorption
            and  Bone DensitY
    III  how Much Calcium Do We Need?
     IV  Are Dairy Products A Good Source Of Calcium?
      V  Calcium And Vegan DietS
     VI  Good Plant Sources Of Calcium:
    
To satisfy the complaint that some of my postings are too long, I
will post each of the separate sections of this one overview as
separate postings.  In this way, the reader can choose which
section(s) to read or ignore.

                                        ted
From: tara@starburst.umd.edu (Tara McDermott)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: FIT FOR LIFE plan
Date: 22 Jan 1993 14:46:32 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, Chesapeake Biological Laboratory
NNTP-Posting-Host: starburst.umd.edu

u6684aa@vms.ucc.okstate.edu writes:

>I am new on this newsgroup so I don't know whether this issue has been
>discussed before. Recently, a friend of ours gifted us a book "FIT FOR
>LIFE" written by the Diamond couple. Some of the claims made in the book
>are intuitively very appealing (e.g., eat more fruits and veggies, combine
>your foods properly, avoid dairy foods, etc.). I wondered if any fellow
>netters have experienced the 'fit for life' diet and what they have to
>say about its pluses and minuses. I will appreciate any insights and help
>you can offer. I might add that because I am already a vegetarian, the
>'fit for life' eating patterns do not represent a major adjustment for us.
>However, there were some concerns about completely removing dairy foods from
>our diets, especially for our 4-year old who likes his milk.

I know of the Fit for Life plan.  I do not follow it completely, but I
do agree with some of the claims, but not all.  There have been many
discussions of this book on rfv.  I'll just say that the references
and doctors used as references in the FfL book all graduated from the
same university, with the same degree.  Other than this one school, no
other school of medical knowledge recommends everything in Fit for
Life.  

I have noticed that some of their fruit combining no-no's seem to hold
true.  Whenever I have eaten any fruit just before or after a meal
(except for apples), I tend to get sick. This could be that I am just
sensative to food, but I still believe in this claim.  

Eating more fruits and vegetables certainly makes sense as well.
Dairy products are certainly not needed in the human diet.  I do not
know what they say about it, but I will post some information on the
subject for you to make up your own mind.  Children do not need
to drink milk.  Calcium is readily available from other sources,
sources which are healthier.  Milk contains fat (unless it is skim),
and cholesterol. 

>-nik

--
Tara McDermott               
tara@starburst.umd.edu       
I eat tofu, and I vote.
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar)
Subject: Vegetarian Goulash & Vegetable Chili
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 17:48:19 GMT

Here are another couple of recipes from Janet Hatch 
(janet.hatch@acadiau.ca).  Unfortunately, she is still
having problems at her site and so cannot yet post.
Let's hope her site resolves those problems real soon so
that Janet can more directly join us.


Vegetarian Goulash

3 oz tofu
1 large onion, chopped
3 oz carrots, sliced
3 oz potato, diced
15 oz tomatoes
1/2 pint vegetable stock
1 red pepper, chopped
2 bay leaves
2 teaspoons paprika
3 tablespoons low-fat plain yogurt
salt & pepper to taste

Soak the tofu chunks in 2 cups of boiling waqter for 10 minutes
and drain. Place all ingredients except yogurt in a saucepan.
Bring to a boil, cover and simmer for about 1 hour.  Stir in 
the yogurt, season to taste. 

This goes nicely over brown rice.


Vegetable Chili

15 oz tomatoes
bay leaf
1 apple, chopped
2 teaspoons pickle, chopped
1 teaspoon tomato puree
1 medium onion, chopped
4 oz kidney beans
4 oz peas
4 oz carrots, grated or sliced
4 oz potatoes, peeled & chopped (or grated)
1 teaspoon chili powder (I always use lots more)
4 oz vegetable stock

Place all ingredients in a saucepan and cover.
Simmer for 1 hour, stirring occasionally. Remove lid
and continue to cook until mixture is of a thick
consistency. Remove bay leaf. 

This also goes well over rice.


Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: levin@world.std.com (Levin F Magruder)
Subject: Re: ... 30 cloves of garlic.../Recipe for watercress soup
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 19:13:04 GMT

morna@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Morna J Findlay) writes:
>Apologies to the original poster - I have lost her name.
>
>I tried this recipe last night - 3 bulbs/30 clives garlic roasted
>at 350/Gas Mark 4 for an hour ( I left it a bit more)
>
>I My cloves were all like smelly lumps of coal, which I'm sure was not
>the intent. I *did* separate all the cloves before baking them - was
>this my mistake??
Wrap in foil.  Coincidentally enough, I did just a few cloves
at 350 for about an hour.  They didn't get ruined, but burned
down quite sticky, even wrapped in foil the lost too much 
moisture.

Next, I'm going to try 475 for 15 minutes.

What I made came up pretty well, it was watercress soup.  It's
not very substantial, but not much work, either. 

Short version:
  Prepare a vegetable stock.  Boil briefly w/4 cloves of roasted garlic.
  Remove from heat, and, as boiling subsides, add a lot of watercress 
  leaves.

Long version, for two large servings.

Bake 4 cloves of garlic
1 medium carrot, scraped
2 sm. stalks of celery
1/2 medium onion
     Mince and saute in a little oil briefly.  Meanwhile...  
Wash and remove leaves from large bunch of watercress 
Chop a few of stems of the watercress*, to get loose fistfull 
Add 
5 C. cold water 
3 stems of italian (flat) parsely 
The chopped watercress stems*
1/2 tsp   thyme (dried leaves) and 1/2 tsp sage (dried leaves)
  (use less if you have powder)
1 bay leaf
1 tsp salt (you'll add more later)
Few grinds of pepper

Heat should be medium low, so it comes to a slow boil.  (You can
  make the rest of your dinner while this is happening.)
Let boil gently c. 20 minutes, spoon off some and taste for salt 
  and pepper.
Remove garlic from oven, let cool, skin
Strain through cheesecloth or fine sieve to get a clear stock
Smash up the garlic in a bit of the stock, stir in to the stock
Bring to a furious boil
Kill the heat immediately
When boiling is almost subsided, throw in watercress leaves and
stir around.

*The watercress stems may be a mistake.  The stock was good but 
a little flat, next time I'm going to try without the stems.


Xref: sparky rec.food.veg:12651 misc.fitness:9910
From: sfjr@wam.umd.edu (Steve Russell)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg,misc.fitness
Subject: Low Fat Lunch Ideas?
Date: 27 Jan 93 23:49:47 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park

Eating healthy lunches seems near impossible to do without compromise.

Anyone have ideas for healthy brown bag fare that is appealing, healthy,
low-fat ( no more then 5-6 grams), and doesnt need a microwave?

Steve R
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: molnar@Bisco.CAnet.CA (Tom Molnar)
Subject: Re: Diet of primates
Organization: UTCS Campus Access
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 16:00:22 GMT

In article <1jkgdjINNqov@fido.asd.sgi.com> danac@morc.asd.sgi.com (Dana Crom) writes:
# Wouldn't it be more to the point to compare our diet to those of our
# hunter/gatherer ancestors?

Dana, yes, I believe so.  My diet is a result of that actually.  My health
was very poor, and I made a concerted effort to learn as much as I could about
health and nutrition.

Well, I took it a little further because my diet is strictly vegan.  I
stopped eating dairy products out of rebellion to the false claims
perpetuated by industry.  I figured that I won't eat or drink anything
that is misrepresented to me.  Eventually I found that I preferred my
nonfat wholefoods diet.  I lost my taste for dairy products.

A good book that discusses the evolution of the human diet is called
"The Paleolithic Prescription".  An odd title, but interesting reading
nonetheless.  The authors discuss our biological evolution, the nature of the
diet, evolution of our diet, and end with some recommendations (a whole
foods vegetarian diet some meat thrown in -- almost Pritikan),

# This is a good point to bring up the next time someone tells you that you
# *need* meat for health reasons.

That's right, you don't.  The same goes for dairy -- you don't *need*
them.  You can avoid them and continue to live a healthy life, much to
the chagrin to those who flog the myth that one *must* consume 3
servings of milk products every blessed day.

# I am beginning to ramble a bit, here - but the point I was trying to make
# is that although a strict vegan diet may be a modern idea, that mildly-
# omnivorous-but-mostly-vegetarion is a *lot* closer to the "normal" diet
# for humans than the more common carnivore-who-eats-occasional-starches
# pattern.

Agreed.  The foods widely consumed in North America are almost all only
recently available.  Compared to our diet over the past 10,000 years, the
current diet is quite a departure from our traditional foods.  I certainly
don't wonder why everyone around me is fat and diseased in one way or
another.  Everything I've ever read reinforced my notion that man has
evolved as an oportunistic omnivor.

The vegan diet is a satisfying diet, in more ways than one.  It's a very 
effective way to distinguish yourself from the masses.  It's a good ideal
to strive for, however.

Regards,
Tom
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: karpen@nrlfs1.nrl.navy.mil (Judy Karpen)
Subject: Re: WANT TO GAIN WEIGHT
Followup-To: rec.food.veg
Organization: NRL
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 20:05:48 GMT

Just a comment on the weight-gain subject (not from personal experience,
alas): both posters seemed to indicate they were trying to gain weight by
eating more fatty foods, which isn't a really good idea. You can be skinny
and still have high cholesterol, for example. Also, it's better to develop
good eating habits now, while you're young and active, so when you get
older and your metabolism slows down you won't be hooked on a high-fat
diet.  So, IMHO, just eat more carbs, eat more often, and don't go to
extremes on fat intake. Several small meals/snacks a day are supposed to be
better for you than a couple of heavy meals, anyway. 

Ted's suggestion of weightlifting is excellent, though. Several friends
(nonveg, unfortunately) who were underweight have gained 20+ lbs. from
lifting, and NOT from taking steroids or those ridiculous overpriced
supplements! For me, it's the only way i can eat more or less what i want &
keep my weight constant (to each his/her own...)

Judy Karpen                "pushing back the frontiers of science"
karpen@nrlfs1.nrl.navy.mil  Naval Research Lab, Washington, DC USA
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: tungp@ils.unc.edu (Pi-Huei Tung)
Subject: yam flour, yam cake
Keywords: [A[Drequest: yam flour recipes
Organization: UNC Office of Information Technology
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 22:44:06 GMT

     I got a package of yam flour (it's imported from Africa), but
there is no direction for cooking.  May I use it to make "yam cake"
which is a kind of vegetarian food?  If anyone has recipes and is
willing to share with me, please send me email.  Many thanks.

     Pi-huei Tung (tungp@ruby.ils.unc.edu)

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: cecchinr@gehrig.cs.rpi.edu (Ron Cecchini)
Subject: Re: Hidden Fat In Packaged Foods
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Distribution: world,local
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 17:43:07 GMT

Ok, Shankar, you comedian you! (and I say that jokingly, because
I certainly didn't mean to ruffle your feathers)

You obviously know more about meat laws than I do.  I will be on the lookout,
and if I find something, I'll let you know.

Ron

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg