From: mbs@odaat.lkg.dec.com (Mark Sawyer)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: AA Recovery isn't for everyone (Re: How I say the Lord's Prayer)
Date: 9 Oct 92 17:45:37 GMT
Reply-To: mbs@odaat.lkg.dec.com.UUCP (Mark Sawyer)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corp., Littleton, MA, USA

In article <98104@bu.edu> ccmlh@buitc.bu.edu (Mark Hayes) writes:

>... If the program is
>so damned wonderful, why can't AA people be a little more open to
>suggestions on how to improve it, or make it more accessible to
>more people? ...

The notion of what it means to "improve" AA is a subjective one.
You have your ideas regarding "improvements" but for the many that
find AA fine the way it is, it is all-together possible that to
"improve" AA, as you put it, might be to "break" AA.  Noone likes
change, even when it might mean growth.  But, given the "life or
death" nature of this disease, I find it understandable that there
are major concerns about changing AA to suit individuals that find
parts of it difficult to accept.

[Who's to say?  Each individual "group" has the final word.]

>It's almost like a kind of superstition, that if you
>change a single detail - if you don't wear your "lucky tie" to a
>job interview - then everything will fall apart.

Sounds silly, doesn't it ... but I think you're exaggerating a bit.

>I'm tired of being
>told that *I* and others like me have to do all the accepting of
>the religiousness of AA. Why can't the religious AA people do a
>little accepting of their own? No-one can stop you from praying
>in your heart, if you so choose; why, they, is it necessary to
>impose the spoken ritual on so many who find it an impediment?

First, I guess I'd like to assert that, first and foremost, AA as I
know and practice it is a "spiritual" program, not a "religious"
program.  Also, without its "spiritual" aspects, there would be very
little left.  I will also acknowledge that it is sometimes difficult
to make the distinction between what is "spiritual" and what is
"religious".  I like to think of it this way. I think of
spirituality is a "state of mind" and religion is the "practicing of
specific rituals" that gets you to that state of mind.  For the most
part, the major religions of the world all have their deities, laws
and rituals clearly defined.  The only things clearly defined in AA
can be found in the 12 Steps and 12 Traditions and the AA Service
Manual.  Check them out, you won't find any definitions of God or
mandatory meeting formats or anything else of that nature.

At the risk of offending you, and I assure you that's not my
intention, what you have written reminds me of some things I've
heard since finding my way to the fellowship.

Things like "are you willing to go to any length?" or "alcohol beat
us into a state of 'reasonableness'" or "if you want what we have
then do what we did".

The first time I contacted AA I wasn't even willing to go to a
meeting.  Eventually, 5 years later, alcohol finally beat me into a
state of 'reasonableness' and I went to my first meeting.  At that
meeting I saw that the people there had something I wanted so I took
their suggestion and "did what they did".

I would never encourage anyone to go back out and drink some more to
attain that state of 'reasonableness' since they might die in the
process. But, recovery isn't for everyone that needs it, it's for
those that truely want it.  And, not everyone has a bottom that
doesn't kill them.  AA, a fellowship and a program of recovery which
works for millions is not to blame for that.

>Does anyone really believe that de-Christianizing AA would
>undermine its effectiveness?

"de-Christianizing AA"???  I guess that presupposes that one
believes that AA has been "Christianized".  I, however, don't
subscribe to that theory.  I've never heard any "Holy-rollers" or
any "Jesus-talk" from the podium at any of the meetings that I've
attended.

FWIW, I wouldn't have a problem if my home group (for which I'm the
GSR) arrived at a group conscience that eliminated the Lord's Prayer
at the end of the meeting I wouldn't mind one bit.

I've given the "Lord's Prayer Thing" some thought lately and I've
come to the conclusion that in my area, greater Concord, NH), you
would have about as much chance of holding back the tides as you
would of removing the Lord's Prayer from meetings around here.  I
don't know of any meetings in this area that don't say it and I've
been to meetings in New Hampshire, Maine, Massachusetts, Rhode
Island and Connecticut.  That's not to say that there aren't any but
I've never been to a meeting that didn't end with the Lord's Prayer.

I'm the Alt-DCM for my district and I plan on conducting an informal
survey at the next District GSR Meeting.  If I decide to visit
alt.recovery again (there's not very much about "recovery" posted
here, it's more like alt.recovery.philosophy or alt.recovery.bitch)
I'll post the results.

>/Mark

    1DAAT ... Mark
--
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Mark B. Sawyer                | Distributed Processing Engineering
Digital Equipment Corporation | EASYnet: tuxedo::m_sawyer
550 King Street (LKG2-2/Z7)   | ARPAnet: m_sawyer@tuxedo.enet.dec.com
Littleton, MA 01460-1289      | Usenet : us1rmc!tuxedo.enet.dec.com!m_sawyer
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Disclaimer: The views expressed herein are my own and do not necessarily
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