From: bkoike@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Bryce Koike)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Re: The Borg and Cyber-poseurs (What is Bladerunner?)
Date: 4 Oct 92 23:34:03 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego

In article <g91v3505.5.718232824@giraffe.ru.ac.za> g91v3505@giraffe.ru.ac.za (MR S VAN ONSELEN) writes:
>
>In article <Ien8FV600WB=R7umUg@andrew.cmu.edu> Patrick C Leger <pl1u+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>>Date: Fri,  2 Oct 1992 13:18:25 -0400 
>>From: Patrick C Leger <pl1u+@andrew.cmu.edu>
>>Subject: Re: The Borg and Cyber-poseurs (What is Bladerunner?)
>
>>Yeah, the technology alone doesn't equate to cyberpunk...It's the atmosphere
>>and the attitude.  It's really irritating when I see shit like Shadowrun, where
>>no explanation of cp is given, and no credit given to those who defined the
>>movement.  

	This, of course, depends very much on who you talk to.  For
some people, the CP genre has sucked up half of the great literary
works in existance (ok, ok, only a forth...grin!) and tends to
include as many pre-CP works as post-CP works...etc.  Authors who
dislike being categorized as CP are suddenly devoured by the genre
and its readers...etc...
	I've read many CP works that only hint of technology (if
that much) and have written a few of my own.  The CP genre has
somehow swallowed the entire realm of post-apocalyptic works for
some reason (why can't they remain where they are...hmm) and so
anyone who writes a, "After WWIII mankind emerged from the glowing
bunkers to form a new, highly flawed, society" is automatically a CP
author.  (Even if the writer wrote his story in the 50's!)  This is
not to say all CP readers feel this way, but this is one side of the
genre.
	Shadowrun was a trendy work that happened to succeed.  It
was a lot of flash that covered up a not-so-nice interior.  (In some
ways, that's CP in and of itself...)  I don't consider it cyberpunk,
although I do believe it's somewhat similar to the trash people who
live in a cyberpunk future might watch on their television (or
holovid or whatever you want to call it)...

>I was wondering what people on this group thought about Shadowrun. Now I 
>have one opinion at least. I found it fairly bland myself.
>
>But I don't quite get the "no explanation/no credit" part. Why should an 
>author be obliged to describe the genre each time he writes a book/series? 
>Does every author who writes heroic fantasy have to say "And I thank my 
>mother and my father and my dog and J.R.R. Tolkien, without whom this entire 
>genre would not exist. Heroic fantasy is all about going on a quest 
>and the heros finding there strengths and ......." or some such guff.

	An author should be obliged to explain HIS world.  Shadowrun
has less than an explanation of anything.  One day people randomly
mutated, the world collapsed, and the megacorporations moved in.
Nice quick storyline no matter how lame it might be.  Gibson
explains his world fairly well, I thought.  Any fantasy writer
explains his world when he writes about it...not necessarily
didactically:  "Uh, there's magic and faeries and gnifty dragons..."
but certainly it would become obvious to the reader that there are
magic and faeries and dragons in the author's book once he was done
reading it.
	Without explanations, a novel could very quickly become
unintelligible:  "Jack frugged Bophur with a shimmyut seconds before
scrambling aboard the blussuft megaglup.  They attached their safety
harnesses and was soon frooping across the hyurl..."
	Of course the author could instead use more familiar
terms..."Jack turned Bophur inside-out with a Predecessor energy
weapon seconds before they scrambled aboard the faster-than-light
starliner.  They attached their safety harnesses and were soon
blinking across the galaxy..."
	Or whatever.  (If I'm babbling, forgive me... :)

	I think that every author has an obligation to explain what
the hell is going on in their work.  If they don't, reading their
novel would be an incredible strain...

>Eh? I don't see this sort of thing, but no-one complains.

	I don't think that's what we're worried about.  A gaming
world needs some sort of history to set the precedence for what's
going on in the game's "present."  Just throwing things at players
and GM's is pretty sad.  What if I generated a fantasy world and in
the first gaming module I introduced space marines weilding particle
beam cannons and in the next one I introduced dragons and then
dieties who required huge doses of heroine to stay conscious...
	Why do these things exist?  In a gaming world a GM expects
to have some explanation for the world that is given to him.  If I
make a character who is suspicious of anyone wearing black, I
normally have a reason for it.  Characters and worlds made on
complete whims tend not to be so fun...
>
>[ And I doubt I'll ever get around to doing a .sig ]
>
>Stuart van Onselen
>Rhodes University 
>Grahamstown
>South Africa
>g91v3505@giraffe.ru.ac.za


Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk