HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gds@casper.cs.uct.ac.za (Riel Smit)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: C Times headline and comments
Date: 18 Nov 92 16:55:25 GMT
Article-I.D.: casper.Bxx8CD.479
Reply-To: gds@cs.uct.ac.za
Organization: Computer Science Department, University of Cape Town

Let me make it clear at the start that I am not trying to defend anyone in
this case - the truth must out and the guilty must be punished.  However,
in the interest of this same truth, a few comments (and I'll be the first
to acknowledge that my knowledge about what exactly transpired and was
said, etc. could be lacking).

mark@uctvax.uct.ac.za writes:

>Instead he [Meyer] says that Ferdi "probably" wasn't even employed, 
>rather he was 
>a "source", and that the order to terminate his relationship did not come 
>from him (someone incorrectly "forged" or put his name to a document to 
>"add authority" to the order).

The way I understood Goldstone's statement was that the document said
"on instructions from the minister" Barnard must be fired, or something
similar - the operative words here are "on instructions from the minister"
and that was the only reference to the minister.  No signature or name.
Meyer claims he gave no such instructions and whoever wrote that lied,
because he (Meyer) did not even know Barnard was employed (or paid as
"source") and if he had been it was in direct contravention to orders he
(Meyer) gave earlier about the SADF and political activities.

>Hence on TV last
>night Meyer claimed to have summonsed Badenhorst to his office
>yesterday to explain the Ferdi Barnard affair, yet he could give no
>proper account of Badenhorst's explanation.  Meyer instead said
>"he probably told me that Barnard was not employed by MI".

Meyer did not summoned Badenhorst (the FORMER head of MI), but the CURRENT
head of MI, Lt-Gen Joffel van der Westhuizen and the latter "probably
said he did not employ Barnard" [and he(Meyer) should ask Badenhorst].

But yes, I agree, that exchange was a bit bumbling (although Meyer claimed
he was saying "probably" all the time as the whole matter was still under
investigation).

I hope someone (de Klerk) starts using a large broom, but I'm somewhat
pessimistic.
-- 
Riel Smit,  Computer Science                              gds@cs.uct.ac.za
University of Cape Town                      gds%cs.uct.ac.za@rain.psg.com
From: kautaj@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (kauta)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Makala & Co ! Howdy.
Date: 16 Nov 92 17:55:48 GMT
Article-I.D.: usenet.BxtLt0.K0H
Organization: Indiana University, Department of Mathematics.

In article <1992Nov16.171939.27271@eng.cam.ac.uk> afv@uk.ac.cam.eng writes:


>(For one, I find Kauta's search into the structure of semihereditary
>orders facinating.  What does it mean ? - for my friend on  624
>E. 3rd :-))

You probably wouldn't understand anything even if it hit you in the face..
I find your obsession with "fingering" people on the Internet an idle, sick,
and unseemly occupation...A legacy of your affiliations with the BOSS.

Sorry son, no time for ya!



>I also read that you have at least 20 personal letters per day to reply
>to, hence I resort to s.c.a. for this discussion.
>
>
>Keep well, and looking forward to your reply.
>
>Frans (yips, Mgangan where I grew up)


-- 
Internet: kautaj@silver.ucs.indiana.edu  The law of Romanian Engineering:
Bitnet:   kautaj@iubacs.bitnet          _NO PROBLEM_. Just put a bunch of
Uucp:     kautaj@iubacs.uucp            engineers on both sides. IF they meet,
                                        you've your tunnel. ELSE you've TWO!!!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: nrswart@phonon.uwaterloo.ca (Nicholas R. Swart)
Subject: Re: Posting language (was Re: Kou-wa-banga Afrikana!)
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 18:38:43 GMT

In article <1992Nov19.085750.811@ucthpx.uct.ac.za> heidi@ucthpx.uct.ac.za (Heidi de Wet) writes:
>9027882@sunvax.sun.ac.za writes:
>>Ek weet dat Engels die Usenet taal is, maar aangesien hierdie 'n
>>soc.* groep is, dink ek dis geregverdig om in 'n "soc.african" taal
>>te skryf.  Wat is die gevoel van andere?
>
>By posting in Afrikaans you are automatically excluding a large portion
>of s.c.a readers from understanding your post - I would guess, the
>majority of readers.  I don't think it's very polite.  On the other hand,

Oh give me a break! If people want to post in Afrikaans let them. Who are you
to decide what language they should speak?? And in case you're wondering, I
don't undestand a word of Afrikaans.

>English is at least a second language for most Usenet readers, and most
>people are tolerant of errors in spelling, grammar etc.

I wouldn't call much of what I read here English.

>
>Why not set up a soc.culture or sanet group specifically for posting
>in Afrikaans?  (sanet.* gets pretty wide propagation these days, I 
>believe :-)

Well why not set up a newsgroup where you can moan about those speaking
Afrikaans.  That way we won't have to listen to you.

>
>>Een skrywer het voorheen opgemerk dat daar skaars Afrikaansprekendes
>>is wat hierdie groep lees.  
>
>Not at all, I said that there are few Afrikaans _posters_.  The stats
>have changed in the last couple of days, of course :-)
>
>-- 
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>Heidi de Wet                                 >>>  FREE  TSAFENDAS  <<<
>heidi@ucthpx.uct.ac.za                       and give him back his job

Nicholas
From: pmmst8+@pitt.edu (Paul M Mweene)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: GAY AFRICANS AGAIN PAUL
Date: 24 Nov 92 01:10:31 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <1992Nov21.123931.203298@uctvax.uct.ac.za> hllhar01@uctvax.uct.ac.za writes:
>> The subject is sensitive only to the extent that Africans consider the 
>> practise abhorrent and anathema.
>
>Are you speaking for your UCT contacts as well, Paul?
>Hardy


If they were allowed to post they could anwer this for themselves. Is it not
ironic that you should have to consult me here all the way away in America
to obtain the views of people with whom you go to school? Simple things like
this show me how little if at all, South Africa has changed?


makala


Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: gavan@elc.mth.uct.ac.za (Gavan Tredoux)
Subject: Re: Walt Mweene Disney does UCT
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 13:46:58 GMT
Organization: University of Cape Town
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

paul@frcs.Alt.ZA (Paul Nash) writes:
: Thus spake adavies@vax.oxford.ac.uk (Anthony Davies):
: 
: > Now it has plumbed the depths, however - I find myself agreeing with remarks 
: > from Gavan Tredoux.
: 
: Touche!

My, the interaction between these two is exciting. Just now they'll
be exchanging email, and then who knows? 

They *do* (squeal) have the knack of
conflating flattery with flatulence.

Gavan Tredoux
UCT 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: linda@frcs.Alt.ZA (Linda Jacobson)
Subject: Irrelevant sideline (Was Re: Kou-wa-banga Afrikana! (was Re: Walt Mweene Disney does UCT)
Organization: Onderstepoort School of Veterinary Science, University of Pretoria
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 21:06:45 GMT

Thus spake 8934959@sunvax.sun.ac.za:


[James Micklem signs off:]
      
>       -I am a conscientous man, when I throw rocks at seabirds
>           I leave no tern unstoned.
>              --Ogden Nash--

In similar vein, Ken Kesey's motto was: "We will take no left turn unstoned."

Linda
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Linda Jacobson				'That's fine, boy, never mind
Department of Medicine			 the tulips.'
Faculty of Vet Science			     
Onderstepoort, South Africa			(Hunter S. Thompson)
From: 8934959@sunvax.sun.ac.za
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: C Times headline
Date: 18 Nov 92 13:19:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: sunvax.1992Nov18.111941.5642
Organization: University of Stellenbosch

In article <1992Nov17.170210.6176@hippo.ru.ac.za>, ccfj@hippo.ru.ac.za (F. Jacot Guillarmod) writes:
> In <1992Nov17.163244.5641@sunvax.sun.ac.za> 8934959@sunvax.sun.ac.za writes:
> 
>>The headline in today's Cape Times, written in massive letters is:
> 
>>                      SADF  LIED!
> 
>>So what's new?
> 
> The fact that a judicial commission of enquiry, appointed by the state,
> obtained this evidence from a witness brought before it by the S.A.
> police?  That's new, and vaguely encouraging.  Of course, the proof of
> the pudding is if something is done about it...
> 
> -- 
>   F.F. Jacot Guillarmod     PO  Box 94     \        |     ccfj@hippo.ru.ac.za
>   Computing Centre       Grahamstown 6140   \      /     +27 461 22023 xt 284
>   Rhodes University        South Africa      ;___*/   33 18 30 S | 26 31 45 E

The only point I was trying to make is that, as anyone who has any knowledge
of the SADF can tell you, the SADF makes quite a habit of lying. I am just
glad that at long last they have been "caught out", and there's no denying
this one.

I was also highly amused to see the shocked response from the politicians. They
all seemed so hurt that Goldstone had not given them an advance warning so that 
they could prepare their excuses.

Sock it to 'em, Ricky.


James (NEVER trust a politician) Micklem

--quot homines tot sententiae--
Organization: Office of the Dean of Student Affairs, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 17:30:11 -0500 
From: Aliya Khan <ak3m+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Festival on Africa

I am writing in regard to a Festival on Africa, which I am
planning for October 20-23, 1993 at Carnegie Mellon University.

I have been researching contacts on campus, locally, and nationally.  But 
would like to get feedback from Africans about speakers, musicians,
artists, etc. that I should contact.

The University will be presenting lectures, music,crafts, dance, film,
and food during this four day event. I am currently writing to all
embassies for information. I would greatly appreciate feedback about
issues that should be covered, and other concerns I should keep in mind.
Your suggestions will be very useful in presenting an informed and well
planned event.

Once again, thank you for your help. (I can be reached at ak3m.cmu.edu.)  

Aliya Khan
International Festival Coordinator
From: brendt@dip2.ee.uct.ac.za (Brendt Wohlberg)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: There it is Re: black posters from SA
Date: 17 Nov 92 13:30:50 GMT
Article-I.D.: ucthpx.1992Nov17.133050.18207
Organization: University of Cape Town
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

pmmst8+@pitt.edu (Paul M Mweene) writes:
: In article <1992Nov15.194214.17201@ucthpx.uct.ac.za> brendt@dip2.ee.uct.ac.za (Brendt Wohlberg) writes:
: >You really are being a melodramatic little twit. "Launched a man hunt" -
: >that really is amusing. I notice you didn't mention that you'd used pseudonyms
: >in your initial posting - I guess you just forgot?  
: You were too busy huntimg for them to have been reading the postings on the net.And thats your problem. Ask your fellow friends and they will tell ok.

And you're too busy concocting your drivel to actually read a posting before
you respond to it. I claimed that you didn't admit that the names were false in
you INITIAL posting, not that you didn't admit to it later on.

How about giving some evidence of all this supporting e-mail from South Africa?
Care to mail it to someone else who contributes to this group (feel free to
mail me so we can agree on someone) for verification? What's that? Already
deleted all the mail from you mailbox? Oh dear, I thought as much. 

______________________________________
Brendt Wohlberg                       |
Electronic Engineering Department     |
University of Cape Town               |
e-mail: brendt@dip1.ee.uct.ac.za      |
        whlbre01@uctvax.uct.ac.za     |
        bwohlberg@eleceng.uct.ac.za   |
______________________________________|
From: imofoke1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Ivan Mofokeng)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Star Editorial (long - was Re: Scandal alert: more to follow)
Date: 19 Nov 92 20:10:52 GMT
Reply-To: imofoke1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Ivan Mofokeng)
Organization: Swarthmore College

gavan@elc.mth.uct.ac.za (Gavan Tredoux) writes:
> mokaba@binah.cc.brandeis.edu writes:
> : High! hello!! is anybody there... Gavan ... Mr Tredoux... remember your
> : fierce attacks against the ANC claiming they were just paranoid when they
> : reported the existence of operation springbok and ...
> : Now that this is from the commission what do you say sir? any comments?
> 
> Darling Mokaba, put your sweet lips a little closer to
> the keyboard (let's pretend that we're together, all alone ...).
> 
> Some scandals have foundation, others do not, eg. Goldstone's
> rebuttal of Weekly Mail reports about undercover police operations in the
> Vaal Triangle (the Mail blithely brushed this aside as usual
> but what's new?). I'm watching the latest with interest; it doesn't
> surprise me much, after all these people are still at war in many ways.

yeh, the Mail is dedicated to revealing anything that the armed forces are
involved in, ie. anything that is to the detriment of the reconciliation
process.  if my memory serves me well, a lot of people rebuked the Mail for
spreading making wild accusations.  some went as far as insinuating that it
was supportive of the anc course (does that ring any bells, govan).  but
then , the mail kept onat it.  the job of the people at the mail have
produced results.  let us applaud their efforts.  i hope they kept on doing
the good job.

> Er, news that seems to have slipped through the cracks is the disclosure
> by the ANC at the weekend that Self-Defence Units on the reef need to
> be brought under control. A little late for that now. But then they also
> claim the SDU's have been infiltrated, to give the ANC a bad image. 
> But then so it seems has the entire Nat Exec. Sigh, just can't win.

just typical of you.  rather than respond to what you have been asked, you
point fingers at the other guy as if that makes you better.  i will not come
to the defense of the dsu.  i think that some of the people involved in them
forgot what their mandate was and started persuing personal agendas.  for
this they need to be exposed for what they are.
on the other hand, i will like to hear ypu views on the latest revelations.
you had quite a lot to say when "evidence was not available".  now what do
you say in the face of the STRONG EVIDENCE that has come to light.


> 
> Gavan Tredoux
> Dept Math / Dept Philosophy
> UCT 

phoka
From: imofoke1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Ivan Mofokeng)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Kou-wa-banga Afrikana! (was Re: Walt Mweene Disney does UCT)
Date: 23 Nov 92 23:40:45 GMT
Reply-To: imofoke1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Ivan Mofokeng)
Organization: Swarthmore College

apj@beldin.sun.ac.za (Andries Dippenaar) writes:
> Riel Smit (gds@casper.cs.uct.ac.za) wrote:
> : pmmst8+@pitt.edu (Paul M Mweene) writes:
> : 
> : >To start with, this dialect, Afrikaans is the reason why 1000 children 
> : >were massacared by boers in 1976 (WHEN THEY REFUSED TO LEARN IT). 
> : 
> : >This apartehid alnguage should be kept off
> : >the net otherwise create your own news group, "rec.afrikaans.boers"
> 
[Stuff Deleted]

> To classify Afrikaans as an `apartheid' language is extremely
> narrow-minded, 
I think NOT!  it is indeed a language of apartheid.  
the classification is has nothing to do with the origin of the language, but
more like what it symbolises.  whichever way you look at it, afrikaans is a
language of oppression, at least for those that do not speak it or cannot
claim it as a first language.  ... read on for a simplistic support of this
statement.

> : And what should we do with those blacks whose mother tongue is Afrikaans?
> : Are they boere as well?
> 
> Let alone that the coloured community is to a large extent also
> Afrikaans-speaking...

... and the coloured community had second class citizen status in the
country.  i suppose their colour, language and some aspects of their culture
tied them closer to the whites in power to warrant "representation" in a
formerly -and still- whites only administration.

my experince at home (SA) has always been that if you have a lighter skin,
as i do, and speak afrikaans , you get better service than the darker
skinned africans in any of the government offices.  the fact that some
people are treated better than others because they speak the language makes
the language a part of the system to me.  

e-mail me if you want to discuss this further.

phoka
> Andries
> ***********************************************************************
> *       /|~~\ * APJ Dippenaar        * "If you wanna make the world a *
> *     /__|__/ * apj@beldin.sun.ac.za *  better place, take a look at  *
> *   /    |    * Univ of Stellenbosch *  yourself and make a change."  *
> * /   \__|    * South Africa         *             -- Michael Jackson *
> ***********************************************************************
From: tonyp@ucthpx.uct.ac.za (Tony Putman)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Scandal alert: more to follow
Date: 17 Nov 92 09:06:39 GMT
Organization: Dept of Elec Eng, UCT

Philip Machanick <philip@concave.cs.wits.ac.za> writes:

>To cap it all, the person who was involved in getting him the job had
>earlier testified to the Webster inquest that Barnard had never been
>in the employ of MI.

Surely testimonies before these commissions are done under oath.  Does
anybody know if these people who are found to have lied or who have
admitted lying are going to be charged with perjury?  I would have thought
that the judge could have ordered an investigation, but I haven't heard
of this being done.

-- 
       Tony Putman,        :                Magic Theatre
  Dept of Elec Eng, UCT    :         Entrance not for Everybody
  tonyp@ucthpx.uct.ac.za   :               For Madmen Only!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: gavan@elc.mth.uct.ac.za (Gavan Tredoux)
Subject: Re: SADF Admits All - Project Mweene
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 92 00:14:21 GMT
Organization: University of Cape Town
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

imofoke1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Ivan Mofokeng) writes:
: hllhar01@uctvax.uct.ac.za writes:
: > Gavan Tredoux writes:
:  [stuff deleted]
: 
: guys cut it out. 
: we are finally getting to hear some serious news here.
: in the past i read with disgust how you (govan) came to the government's
: defense, now that the truth about their activities are comming to light you
: enlarge the string with senseless talk.  
: face the issue and admit that you were wrong. 

Wrong about what? Defending what? Face which issue? How am
I implicated? I bear so many burdens.

You're very obscure phoka, and you lack a sense of humour. 

May HE judge you wisely.

Amen

Gavan Tredoux
UCT
From: Jim Rosenfield <jnr@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Date: 16 Nov 92 09:16 PST
Subject: Re: There it is Re: black posters from 
Nf-ID: #R:blue.cis.pitt.edu.uucp:9646:cdp:1471700258:000:151
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!jnr    Nov 16 09:16:00 1992


but you still offer nothing to support your broad generalization,
ad hominim attacks and scandalous allegations.  your credibility
sinks like a stone.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: mukasa@panix.com (Michael Mukasa)
Subject: Re: Kou-wa-banga Afrikana! (was Re: Walt Mweene Disney does UCT)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 21:13:58 GMT
Organization: Panix, NYC

A small note on posting in Afrikkans.
if I came from a culture that esposed laws that had been condemed by the
world and had the blood of tens if not hundreds of thousands of lives on
its hands, I would not be raising my head in pride.  Since most of the
people who READ and not necessarily POST here  are probably Africans who
identify and empathise with the oppressed majority in South Africa, I
would suggest you help the healing process by refraining from angering
readers on this net.

Kiggundu.
From: ccfj@hippo.ru.ac.za (F. Jacot Guillarmod)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Just a repression (was Re: Just a thought - [subject deleted]
Date: 21 Nov 92 22:09:49 GMT
Article-I.D.: hippo.1992Nov21.220949.28310
Organization: Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa

In <By2sx4.FoA@ddsw1.mcs.com> barnhart@ddsw1.mcs.com (Mr. Aaron Barnhart) writes:

>And you don't see makala holding back either, whereas his predators would
>seem to be saying, if only we had your chain to yank over here, pal,
>you wouldn't be allowed to post your rubbish.

This is where the whole argument started.  Makala would have you
believe that access to Usenet news in South Africa is somehow
restricted.  The fact is, that if you're at a university that receives
news, you're free to post any old rubbish you like, irrespective of
your race, colour, creed or level of "sanity" or political
correctness.  The vast majority of readers and posters are undergraduate
and postgrad students - hardly powerful, sinister figures itching to
"yank chains".

The decision as to whether a particular university over here receives
Usenet news or not is a matter of somebody at that site installing the
relevant software on a suitable system and then organising the newsfeed.
It's not a big deal, and it's basically free.  University
administrations are not involved in these decisions, and, to a great
extent are blissfully unaware of the existence of Usenet on "their"
campuses.  Even when they are aware of it, they don't know what it
means.

Obviously, not every single person in South Africa has access to news
as a matter of course - but if you want it badly enough, it _is_
possible to receive it in the comfort of your own home, on your own
PC.  A considerable number of private individuals do this, and their
colour is irrelevant.  At this level, the only "censorship" in play is
a self imposed one - what the individual concerned feels he can afford
to pay in terms of dialup connection time and the appropriate hardware.

-- 
  F.F. Jacot Guillarmod     PO  Box 94     \        |     ccfj@hippo.ru.ac.za
  Computing Centre       Grahamstown 6140   \      /     +27 461 22023 xt 284
  Rhodes University        South Africa      ;___*/   33 18 30 S | 26 31 45 E
From: hllhar01@uctvax.uct.ac.za
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: fingeringclo
Date: 21 Nov 92 12:27:02 +0200
Organization: University of Cape Town

In article <1992Nov20.090927.4593@shannon.ee.wits.ac.za>
Philip Machanick <philip@concave.cs.wits.ac.za> writes:

> There seems to be an uncommon number reports of fingering various people
> in this group, starting from one of the Laurel and Hardy duo thinking
> they could outdo another individual in posting fiction to the net.
> 
> Consider the two scenarios:
> 
> you have a discussion with         you have a discussion on the net
>   someone in one of your              with various people
>   classes
> you decide you to look the         you finger the person
>   person up in the telephone
>   directory
> you put his name, address and      you post all the details on
>   phone number up on a public        soc.culture.african
>   toilet wall
> 
> Is there an issue of invasion of privacy in either case? You be the judge.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| E-mail Phil at philip@concave.cs.wits.ac.za for a good time - Phil        |
| satisfies....every time!                                                  |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Who knows, Phil, maybe you could find some sexy friends. Do e-mail me if you
get any obscene mail (even better, forward it to me).

Hardy
From: sac@Apple.COM (Steve Cisler)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: New York Times article on female circumcision
Date: 17 Nov 92 16:16:44 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA


The New York Times for Nov. 17 has a long article on
female circumcision in Africa and efforts by health
authorities and others to eradicate the practice.

Fran Hosken, a WHO consultant and writer on the subject says,
``The real reason genital mutilation continues is because men
refuse to marry women who have not been operated on."

Newsgroups: soc.culture.african