HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: david.vaughan@rose.uucp (david vaughan)
Subject: RE: LOVECRAFT/BARKER
Organization: Rose Media Inc, Toronto, Ontario.
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 10:59:32 GMT
X-Gated-By: Usenet <==> RoseMail Gateway (v1.2)


Date Entered: 04-11-92 13:24
I am a fan of both Lovecraft and Barker.  Furthermore, Weaveworld is my
favorite Barker novel (although I tend to think of it as fantasy rather
than horror).  However, I know from experience that both of these
authors are an acquired taste, and no longer bother to argue the issue
any more.  As a service to those who found Weaveworld complex, I would
point out that The Great and Secret Show is more so, and, I've told, so
is Imajica (which I have yet to read).

-> I like Lovecraft's work a lot, but as far as I am concerned, I
-> enjoy reading works inspired by his writing more than the stuff he
-> penned himself.  Case in point, the Arkham volume: Tales of the
-> Cthulhu Mythos by Lovecraft and Divers hands.  Although the names of
-> individual contributors in that volume do not come to mind, stories
-> like "The Space Eaters" and "Sticks" are incredible.  They really
-> retain the "look and feel" of Lovecraft's work, but are executed in a
-> much more accessible style.  Opinions?

I agree that there many great stories among the Lovecraft alumni.  There
are also a lot of awful pastiches that make HPL look like Hemingway.  In
addition to Tales, I would add New Tales of the Cthulu Mythos, edited by
Ramsey Campbell.  Unlike Tales, which has a number of pastiches in
addition to more original material, New Tales deals entirely with
Lovecraft's themes, and pretty much checks the Lovecraftian style at the
door.  In addition to one of Campbell's own Mythos stories, it also has
stories by King, Basil Copper, A.A. Attanasio, T.E.D. Klein, and other
contemporary writers.  Also recommended is Campbell's own mythos
collection Cold Print, which covers his Lovecraftian fiction from his
first published works, which were pastiches of HPL, to his contemporary
works exploring Lovecraft's themes in Campbell's own style.  Finally, I
would recommend T.E.D. Klein's novella (short novel?) The Children of
the Kingdom, which can be found in Kirby McCauley's Dark Forces
anthology and Klein's collection Dark Gods.

David S. Vaughan
Hamilton, Ontario.
E-mail: david.vaughan@rose.uucp    OR
        david.vaughan%rose@lsuc.on.ca (if the former doesn't work)
---
   RM 1.60: Usenet: Rose Media - Hamilton (416) 575-5363
From: cje@gandalf.rutgers.edu (Cthulhu's Jersey Epopt)
Newsgroups: alt.horror
Subject: Re: Lovecraft/Barker
Date: 13 Apr 92 17:33:59 GMT
Organization: Miskatonic U. Computer Operations & User Services

6500cws@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu (Christopher Wade Skinner) writes:

> OB Cthulu and Frank B. Long ..., have you all read perhaps the _worst_ short
> story ever written in the mythos, _The Hounds of Tindalos_, by ol' FBL ...?  
> It is truely bad.  One might even say aaaaaaaaaa...

Funny, but "Hounds" is possibly Long's most-anthologized story.  It would seem
Chris's low estimate of it is a minority opinion.

To find the truly "truely bad" Mythos fiction, you'll have to look long and
hard.  CRYPT OF CTHULHU occasionally reprints some of it as curiosities (as
they did with John Glasby's pastiches), but other than that, they don't get
reprinted because they *are* bad.  

If someone made a Mythos movie that was a hit, *then* you'd see all kinds of
junk reprinted for a fast buck.  I'd *really* like to see all of Lin Carter's
Mythos fiction reprinted in a single book, but it'll take a marketing frenzy to
make that happen, because it's just not very good.  But it'd make a neat
curiosity.
From: kwest@andromeda.rutgers.edu (Kenneth C West)
Newsgroups: alt.horror
Subject: Re: Stephen King- Who is Flagg?
Date: 10 Apr 92 16:41:39 GMT
Distribution: alt.horror
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

pastino@sjuphil.uucp (Sal Pastino) writes:


>Since the only SK novels I have ever read are The Dead Zone and 
>Pet Sematary, I was wondering who Flagg is and what novel is this
>character in?

>                                 Thanks, Sal Pastino

	Randall Flagg pops up first in THE STAND as the Walkin' Dude, an
evil entity who might be human.....or demon.....or a mix of both. Hints are
given that he is pretty eternal, and that when he resurfaces in new
incarnations he has a new name with the initials RF and a vague memory of
what he used to be.
	He also seems to make appearances in THE EYES OF THE DRAGON and
THE GUNSLINGER books, although some of us are still arguing about the specifics.I'd never noticed this before (silly me) and I think this recurring character
is pretty cool. Apparently Flagg has been trying to screw up the human race
since the beginning of time, taking on new identities each time he is
defeated.
	Hope this helps......anyone else with better explanations?


						-Jeff Somers
Newsgroups: alt.horror
Subject: Re: THE final Friday 13th movie
From: matthew@oread.cc.ukans.edu
Date: 16 Apr 92 19:54:16 CST
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Serces

In article <1992Apr12.134231.2921@vax.muskingum.edu>, ed_medeiros@vax.muskingum.edu writes:
> Has anyone else heard about the final Friday the 13th movie coming out
> (supposively) Friday November 13, 1992.  All I have read in Fango is that it
> will be the final movie of the series, Jason is back, it will be more on
> Jason's origin, Jason is back, hardly any teenagers around, and if I didn't
> mention it, Jason is back.  

	What?  You mean that all the press that Paramount put out over
the years saying that they would do 13 Friday the 13ths and end the
series is a lie? 
	(detect a little sarcasm, maybe?)
	Well, I can't say that I blame them.  The last one where Jason
is in Manhattan was terrible--especially when a bulk of the movie was
on that cruise ship!  But if they had taken their time and had done
the movies for shock value, with a moderate amout of gore, they might
have done fine.  I'll grant you, however, that probably wouldn't have
satisfied moviegoers--"we want it NOW!"--but at least it wouldn't have
turned the movie series into the laughingstock it became with the last
movie.  For myself, the best ones were the first three, perhaps the
fourth, because they *did* try to kill of Jason...of course, we *were*
left with the idea that Tommy Jarvis had gone off the deep end when he
made himself up like Jason as a child to try and save his sister.  Oh,
well, at least maybe they can salvage a decent ending out of the
series--end it on a final, terror-filled note (kind of like the Star
Trek series, eh?).
						--Matt
-- 
Matt Chatterly               | "How'd you get hand lotion all the   
(a blatant pseudonym.....)   |  way up there?"  
Matthew@oread.cc.ukans.edu   | "I told you I spilled it."
				      --_Young Lady Chatterly_
From: roxy@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (r.prisco)
Newsgroups: alt.horror
Subject: Re: Lovecraft/Barker
Summary: Weaveworld
Date: 9 Apr 92 23:53:55 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Apr9.224436.9044@njitgw.njit.edu>, rhr9081@hertz.njit.edu (Ray Rich) writes:
> In article <1992Apr3.150306.1@woods.ulowell.edu> mcduffeek@woods.ulowell.edu writes:
> >
> >I guess you could say I'm just an "amateur" King and horror reader, but I
> >thought maybe someone could give a BRIEF review on Weavewrld.  I heard it's
> >good.Is it to you out there?
> >
> 	I, however, feel the same for Clive Barker.  I read the first page
> of Weaveworld 8 times and I still couldn't figure out how many characters
> were in the first scene, where it took place, or even who/what they were.  I
> gave it to a friend who verified my feelings by doing the same.  Between the
> two of us, we couldn't make heads or tails of it.
> 					Raythrax        

I hate to admit that I haven't read much Lovecraft, so I can't say how Barker
compares to him, but I had the same feelings you did when I opened Weaveworld.
However, it was late at nite, and I didn't feel like getting out of bed to go
look for another book, so I just kept reading.  Tho at times I felt I was lost
in this sea of characters, I found that I liked being lost there .... I
absolutely loved the book and the place that it transported me to .... things
became clearer as I kept reading and so my advice is to give it a 50-page try
before you decide to put it away ...

________________________________________________________________________
           _     __ 
          (_)   |  |
 ___  __  ____ _|  |_  ____     _   I'm not complaining 'bout my life
 |  |/  \ |  | |_  _| |_   \   (_)  again . . . 
 |  | \_/ |  |  |  |  / /|  |       No sirree.
 |  |     |  |  |  | |  \|  |   _   And what I've got belongs to me 
 |__|     |__|  |__|  \___^_|  (_)  entirely! 
         att!mtfme!rita                                Kirsty MacColl
________________________________________________________________________
From: seawasp+@pitt.edu (Ryk E Spoor)
Newsgroups: alt.horror
Subject: Re: Witches
Date: 9 Apr 92 15:06:01 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <68@quark.ansto.gov.au> davidc@quark.ansto.gov.au (David Carroll) writes:
>I'm looking for examples to use in an essay on Witches in Literature and

	[...]

>I've got 'Witches of Eastwick' by John Updike, 'The Witching Hour' by Anne

	In an odd SF vein, try "The Witches of Karres", by James Schmidz.

	A lot of witches appear in various fantasy novels, but it also depends
on what you call WITCH. If you mean Wiccans, they ARE somewhat rare, but
there IS a series out now which stars an active true Witch. Wish I could
remember the titles -- saw it mentioned but I can't recall it now.

                                 Sea Wasp
                                   /^\
                                   ;;;
From: azukowsk@neumann.une.oz.au (Anna Zukowski)
Newsgroups: alt.horror
Subject: Re: Polanski
Keywords: Polanski
Date: 11 Apr 92 08:31:20 GMT


The list of polanski's movies I remember (not in any order and possibly
not complete):
Repulsion (early, B&W, first or one of the first movie roles for
          Catherine Deneuve, good horror movie)
Cul de Sac (black humour - crime)
Rosemary's baby
Macbeth
Chinatown
Fearless vampire hunters
The Tenant (horror, with Isabella Adjani and himself)
Frantic
Pirates
Tess

-anna-
From: gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary L. Newell)
Newsgroups: alt.horror
Subject: Re: Jacob's Ladder (was Re: Flatliners
Summary: correction
Date: 10 Apr 92 18:30:48 GMT
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson

In article <15164@optima.cs.arizona.edu>, gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary L. Newell) writes:
> called  _The Divine Comedy_, its plot is of a type called a Christian
> allegory - now my familiarity with the bible is strictly academic - that
> is I know the stories more or less but have very little invested in the
> book - but I am familiar with Jacob, and the story of the angel and
> the ladder, of course the other names in the film are probably not chosen
> by accident and so it is likely that a familiarity with these names and
> stories might give one some ability to gain insight into a movie which
> is also a Christian allegory - my point here is simply that you are taking

This of course is wrong (thanks to my ever alert jewish wife for pointing it 
out to me ;-)) - JL is not christian allegory - in fact I guess you'd call
it Old Testament allegory as there are of course no references to christ,
the saints, apostles, Mary etc. - the point I was trying to make however
is, I think, still valid.

 Also, I was thinking through my old critical lit. classes and realized that
seawasp may be making an argument which I have heard before and which is
valid to many but which I didn't notice until now - that is, it can be argued
that a good story (or film) should have more than meets the eye, that is
for example, consistent interesting use of symbols contained throughout
including the dialogue and so forth, but it must also stand strong when viewed
without an eye for hidden meaning or hidden intellectual content. IN other
words, a film could be the greatest example of symbolism to have ever been
made but if it simply does not stand when viewed without an eye for such content
then it simply is not a good film/story - although this is a popular view, I 
never have agreed with it - this may be where seawasp and I disagree however
and may explain a number of things to me that made no sense before, with respect
to his opinions.

 Finally, one last question for you Ryk, if we do go ahead and assume that
you are correct - that is, that the drug is real and is the essential
point of the film, then could you please tell me what the other 80% of
the film means - or what you perceive it was meant to mean even if you
don't think it suceeded? In particular, since we know he was dying - what
was all the stuff about the future in there for? What did it have to do
with anything? How could he possibly know about the drug, since as you
point out, he's a dead man - he dies before they can save him. Who/what
allowed him this insight? Why?

  Thanks,

			gln
From: gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary L. Newell)
Newsgroups: alt.horror
Subject: Re: Jacob's Ladder (was Re: Flatliners
Date: 6 Apr 92 16:08:09 GMT
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson

In article <204466@unix.cis.pitt.edu>, seawasp+@pitt.edu (Ryk E Spoor) writes:
> 	No, it's not left to the viewer to decide. It's impossible for the
> movie to be Jacob's invention as he dies -- he has no knowledge of the drug's
> existence except from what he gets told in the future, and as I mentioned he

As for the drug, it seems likely to me that if I had been stabbed by a
fellow american soldier and lay dying in the jungle (after a session of
smoking joints and watching a guy spaz out on the ground) I might just
come up with some scenario where mind-altering drugs played a part - note
that the movie does not say  that the ladder theory was in fact what
took place - and in my opinion it would have been a hell of a better
movie if it had left off the trailer about drug experiments...


> also cannot know anything about the conditions of the future, yet his "dream"
> gets the modern world right.

Again, could you please elaborate on this - what does he "Get right" which
was not of "his time"??

> 	So we have an impossibility on the one hand and a useless, meaningless
> Vision on the other.

As I've tried to point out above - I don't think you are right - but again, I
may have missed some obvious blunders in the film which you picked up on.


			gln
From: tb0o+@andrew.cmu.edu (Todd Keenan Bowman)
Newsgroups: alt.horror
Subject: Re: Dario Argento
Date: 13 Apr 92 16:11:57 GMT
Organization: Software Engineering Institute, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

I'm not to sure how "available" much of Argento's work is, but most of it
can be obtained through Mondo Video at $20 a pop.

Deep Red used to be available and is an excellent 70's murder mystery with
a few great scenes.

Unsane is a horribly chopped up version of the far supeior Tenebrae.

The uncut Suspiria is excellent as is the uncut Terror at the Opera (the
original Italian language Opera I have is butchered to hell).

Dario Argento's World of Horror is an excellent documentary that was released
n the US five years ago by VIDMARK. I haven't seen it in ages - but grab it
if you see it. It has parts on all his films minus Opera and Two Evil Eyes,
plus alot of the scenes that were edited out of the US releases.

Two Evil Eyes is due out on video soon though I heard it stunk.

Inferno was released uncut a long time ago on KEY VIDEO but I'm sure it has
been discontinued. It was a semi-sequal to Suspiria. I even liked it better.

Creepers was a hacked-up version of Phenomena (which was something like a half
hour longer). It was OK, but had someexcellent scenes (esp. the beginning
sequence).
As for his older films like Bird with a Crystal Plummage, Four Flies on Grey
Velvet, and Cat O'nine Tails, they are all similar 70's style murder mysteries
that pop up occasionally on late night TV - (I got Cat O'Nine Tails off WPGH
Pittsburgh some night at 2am)

Good luck finding these... hope I didn't miss any
todd
From: cje@gandalf.rutgers.edu (Cthulhu's Jersey Epopt)
Newsgroups: alt.horror
Subject: Long's "Hounds" (was Re: Lovecraft/Barker)
Date: 17 Apr 92 12:26:41 GMT
Organization: Miskatonic U. Computer Operations & User Services

We were tossing around the relative merits of Frank Belknap Long's "The Hounds
of Tindalos".

6500cws@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu (Christopher Wade Skinner) writes:

>I'm curious, oh Jersey Epopt, if you've read it yourself.  

Yes, I have.  Many times.

>"Most-anthologized" hardly equals good.

Perhaps not, but it does indicate that many people have found the story to be
worth reprinting.  That, I think, indicates an opinion of the story's value
that runs counter to your own bashing of it.

>It's choppy and *really* obvious, and indeed, someone finds a piece of paper
>on which the dying narrator has written "aagh" as he is attacked.

"Choppy and *really* obvious" are relative judgments.  You must also realize
that the story is some 60 years old.  Writing styles change.  It would likely
not make it to publication if submitted today, but that doesn't mean it's a bad
story.  That simply means editors are looking for something else these days.
(I'm sure you've all heard the apocryphal stories of writers submitting classic
short stories to magazines and having them rejected for stylistic reasons.)

Regarding a written "aagh", if it's really there (and I don't have a copy at
hand to verify it), it is unbelievable and probably not something I'd do.  But
a few missteps don't have to spoil the otherwise atmospheric story.  *And* it
*was* written for a less sophisticated audience that might find such awkward
practices acceptable.

>Please, its pure Monty Python.

No, no, you're thinking of "The Blancmange from Tindalos".
From: birns@sklib.usask.ca
Newsgroups: alt.horror
Subject: Acquisitions Contact Persons :
Date: 13 Apr 92 20:11:36 GMT
Organization: University of Saskatchewan

The following monograph funds are being maintained by the person
listed beside them.  Selectors are asked to contact that person
for any inquiries they may have.  If their contact person is not
available, inquiries should be directed to Tammy Birns.


FA-ART               Marie Bidd
HU-CLASSI            Marie Bidd
HU-FRENCH            Marie Bidd
HU-PHILOS            Marie Bidd
PC-PHYSED            Marie Bidd
SC-MATH              Marie Bidd
SS-PSYCHO            Marie Bidd
SS-SOCIOL            Marie Bidd
ZC-SOFTWA            Marie Bidd
ZD-IDS               Marie Bidd
ZD-REPLAC            Marie Bidd
HU-RELIGS            Marie Bidd
SP-SOCIFR-4          Marie Bidd
TR-GUILFOR-4         Marie Bidd
SP-ALUMNI-4          Marie Bidd
SP-CAPLAN-4          Marie Bidd


FA-CINEMA            Shannon Morley
FA-MUSIC             Shannon Morley
HU-ENGL              Shannon Morley
HU-GERMAN            Shannon Morley
HU-LITTRA            Shannon Morley
PC-COMM              Shannon Morley
SS-ARCHAN            Shannon Morley
SS-CANSTU            Shannon Morley
SS-POLIST            Shannon Morley
ZC-SPCOLL            Shannon Morley
ZD-UGSPEC            Shannon Morley
TR-MURSPC-4          Shannon Morley
TR-NEATBY-4          Shannon Morley

FA-DRAMA             Rita Jo Hoffman
HU-HISTOR            Rita Jo Hoffman
HU-SLAVST            Rita Jo Hoffman
HU-SPAN              Rita Jo Hoffman
PC-AGRI              Rita Jo Hoffman
SC-BIOLOG            Rita Jo Hoffman
SC-BIOTEC            Rita Jo Hoffman
SS-ECONOM            Rita Jo Hoffman
SS-GEOGRA            Rita Jo Hoffman
SS-NATIVS            Rita Jo Hoffman
SS-WOMENS            Rita Jo Hoffman
ZD-CONTIN            Rita Jo Hoffman
TR-MURRAY-4          Rita Jo Hoffman
SP-OFFCAM-4          Rita Jo Hoffman

PC-HSDENT            Heather Goddard
PC-HSMED             Heather Goddard
PC-HSNURS            Heather Goddard
PC-LAW               Heather Goddard
PC-VETMED            Heather Goddard
PC-VETTOX            Heather Goddard
ZC-GOVPUB            Heather Goddard
ZC-MAPS              Heather Goddard
ZC-REF               Heather Goddard
TR-MACKIN-4          Heather Goddard
SP-ENDHSCI           Heather Goddard

PC-EDUC              Tammy Birns
PC-ENGCHE            Tammy Birns
PC-ENGIN             Tammy Birns
PC-PHARMA            Tammy Birns
PC-PHNUTR            Tammy Birns
SC-CHEM              Tammy Birns
SC-GEOLOG            Tammy Birns
SC-LINAC             Tammy Birns
SC-PHYSIC            Tammy Birns
ZC-THESAU            Tammy Birns
ZD-DATABA            Tammy Birns
TR-APES-4            Tammy Birns
TR-SCITEC-4          Tammy Birns
From: gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary L. Newell)
Newsgroups: alt.horror
Subject: Well Seawasp??? re:Jacob's ladder
Date: 7 Apr 92 22:09:07 GMT
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson


 I suppose it could just be a net delay but I thought I'd ask Seawasp and anyone
else who claimed that there were mistakes in JL with respect to items that Jacob
should not have known about existing in his "dying vision", just what are the
supposed errors? As I've said, I may have missed some things but try as I might
I have not found any obvious errors in continuity - I liked the film and
purchased it a couple of months ago. I watched it recently with an eye for
such errors but saw none - as I said, the cars (including Jacob's Mail
truck) are all pre-1980's vintage as far as I could tell. The street signs and
advertisements are also all circa-1968-1970. The TV shows are black and white
 "to tell the truths" and even his version of Camus' The Stranger is the same
one I picked up in the early 70's. The music is rfrom the correct period I
believe and the dress is rather non-commital at best so I would say that it
could pass. 

 So again Seawasp, you've made the claim a couple of times now that the film was
full of such errors and I ask you to please back that up with an example or
two of such mistakes - otherwise I would hope that you might reconsider your
argument that the idea of it being a dying man's last "what ifs" is either
ridiculous or poorly done and admit that it was perhaps your own failures
that resulted in your incorrect observations and resulting incorrect (IMHO)
review.

Also, I'm curious if you still stick by your "how could he have known about
the drug?" argument. As I said, he saw the soldier who stabbed him, he
had just witnessed a friend go into some sort of strange fit, they had
just finished smoking grass - it seems to me that if my guts were hanging
out, as his were, and I had just witnessed something as bizarre and unlikely
as he had (US soldiers killing US soldiers), I might come up with some idea 
that I/we had been drugged... how do you answer that?

 I'm truly curious how you respond to this - I'd be lying if I said that I
thought you had a clue about the film but since you were wrong about your
criticisms (again, unless you can point out to me what I missed) I wonder
how you will respond....


				gln
From: askounis@rigel.vlsi.sgi.com (Paul Askounis)
Newsgroups: alt.horror
Subject: Re: FLAGG AS GUNSLINGER??????
Date: 6 Apr 92 18:44:53 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.  Mountain View, CA

I believe that there is a Flagg-like character that rescues the Tick-Tock Man
near the end of "The Waste Lands". He seems to be an antagonist of Roland and
intent on preventing him from fulfilling his quest. 

I cannot remember what the character refers to himself as, bu he gave the same
impression of himself as Flagg did in "The Stand", ie - shady memory of his
past, healing powers, etc.
--

--Paul Askounis   askounis@sgi.com  (415) 335-1817  M/S 7U-545
		  Silicon Graphics,  Advanced Systems Division
		  2011 N. Shoreline Blvd., Mtn. View, CA 94039
Newsgroups: alt.horror