HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: TSTEEGM3@ua1vm.ua.edu (Tom Steegmann)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: Should Marv Levy Be Fired? (was Re: Dolphins Eat the Bills for Lunch)
Date: 5 Oct 92 19:30:43 GMT
Organization: The University of Alabama, Tuscaloosa

In article <auwen.718309975@starman>
auwen@convex.com (John David Auwen) writes:
 
>
>TSTEEGM3@ua1vm.ua.edu (Tom Steegmann) writes:
>>started a dynasty by now.  Flame all you like, I dont really give a shit.
>>Bill Polian (Bills GM) has put together a great team and I think that
>>it is an injustice to keep a coach who is so stuck in his ways.
>
>HAHAHAHA!  A typical New York fan!  Lose one game and you start crying
>for the coach's head!  Boo-Hoo!!!
>
     Actually you stupid fuck, I have been calling for the coaches head
now for a long time.  I really hate when some ignorant rookie poster
makes such a dumb ass statement.  What makes you think I'm in New York?
How's Alabama grab you, shithead?  Why do you open your mouth?
     To elucidate on my point (know what that means bubba?), the Bills
have all the talent they need. The coaching staff is the only weak link.
If someone would like to disagree with me, and has a coherent argument
that they would like to present, I would be more than glad to see it here.
 
 
>I guess it's the head coach's fault that Kelly is a choker?  Did you see
>that guy's face before the last super bowl?  He was in such an emotional
>state it was incredible.  And the Redskins kicked their butts!
 
       Let's see you get your big fat overpaid ass out on the field for
a super bowl and see if you dont get emotional.  It is the coaches job
to motivate the players. If your knowledge of football is so piss poor
that you dont know that, maybe you should take your posts to somewhere
else like, say, rec.assholes.com
 
Tom
 
>Dave
ps:  At least the Bills lost to a great team.  Thats more than your
beloved Redskins can say. Can you say 2-2? Those chumps wont even
make the playoffs at this rate.
>auwen@convex.com
From: brianc@acuson.com (Brian Cox)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: Ray's lousy prediction
Date: 25 Sep 92 22:24:43 GMT
Organization: Acuson; Mountain View, California

auwen@convex.com (John David Auwen) writes:

>Ray, I saved this just so I could show how little you know about the
>Dallas Cowboys.  Anyone who knows anything about them knows that they
>will be better this year than last year.  Also, any objective expert
>will tell you that Jimmy Johnson is doing a fantastic job as head
>coach.  So, Ray, my advice is to go back and revise your prediction
>about the Cowboys.  

>HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!! 

>Of course, had you been right, I'd have quietly deleted the file and
>kept my mouth shut!  ;-)

>Dave Auwen
>auwen@convex.com


Well, I'm not objective.  I'm a dyed-in-the-wool Redskins fan.
I have to admit that JJ is doing a tremendous job!  In fact, if you
want to learn about how to build a team from the ground up, look at
the Cowboys over the last 4 years or so...  JJ also seems to really
understand Joe Gibbs.  As far as I can tell, he's the only one.

It seems like everytime these two teams meet, at least one coach
has installed a brilliant game plan.  I suppose it wouldn't be
much fun if the Cowboys had continued to be doormats.  But I don't
think I would have minded...


				--BC--

-- 

					   --Brian Cox--
------------------
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: twolf@cs.utah.edu (Tom Wolf)
Subject: Re: Dallas killed by Philly
Date: 6 Oct 92 17:47:40 MDT
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept
Distribution: usa

In article <1992Oct6.00124.1161@ms.uky.edu> thomasc@ms.uky.edu (Thomas Campbell) writes:
>i didn't see, I didn't think I had too.. Dallas was beaten by Philly?
>I was *not* expecting it.  What happened? I'm not a big Dallas fan
>but, i do know there's a hell of a lot of talent on that team.  
>What happened???
>

Well, there were 3 things:

1) Dallas had Aikman & Philly had Cuningham.
	After watching Dallas play 3 games this year, I keep wondering how
	Aikman holds onto the #1 QB job in Dallas. In 2 of the 3 games, he
	was horrible (Washington & Philly). Against the Giants, he was
	mediocre. How does he get the tag of future star QB? By playing on
	a rising team in Dallas?

2) Philly's defense is AWESOME!!!! Boy do I wish the 49ers had a defense
	like that. Philly is the first team I have seen this year that I
	(as a 49er fan) think will stop the 49ers from getting to the
	Superbowl. Note: I know other teams have a chance of getting there.

3) Walker, boy was that great seeing him run last night! I haven't seen him
	give that kind of effort since his Dallas years. That was some
	display of running!


Tom Wolf
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: GC.JAB@forsythe.stanford.edu (Tony Bechtold)
Subject: Re: pretenders
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 21:32:57 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.114100.11679@ncsu.edu>,
easchwei@eos.ncsu.edu (ERIC ARNOLD SCHWEITZ) writes:
>
>In article <1992Oct5.183814.29122@morrow.stanford.edu>, GC.JAB@forsythe.stanford.edu (Tony Bechtold) writes:

>|> In article <BvM5tw.3sq@acsu.buffalo.edu>,
>|> v069qqqc@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Mike C.) writes:
>|>
>|> >Once again, the Bills show how they can beat up on weak teams,
>|> >only to lose when it really counts. The pattern holds true: they
>|> >win the first few games against weak teams, then lose a big game
>|> >against a strong team. Now they'll 'get their act together' for
>|> >a few wins against some more winless teams, and breeze into the playoffs.
>|> >But I sincerely hope they don't make it too far this year, because
>|> >they don't have it. They're an average team who catch teams off guard
>|> >with their trickery on offense, and steal some wins against some good teams.
>|>
>|> >But then when it counts, the real Bills show up: the defense who can't
>|> >stop anything, the offense led by an overrated QB who ***CHOKES***
>|> >whenever the pressure is on (see SB XXV, XXVI). This team will never
>|> >amount to everything, and I'm sick of watching them blow every big game
>|> >they play.
>|>
>|> >At least we could depend on a home win in the past... now even that is
>|> >gone. I refuse to follow this team anymore.
>|>
>|> >Congrats Miami. Take the division, take the championship. Please. We
>|> >in Buffalo don't want it anymore.
>|>
>|> >Mike C
>|> >very fickle ex-Bills fan

>|> Well finally a Bills fan see's the light!!  Now when are the rest of
>|> you dreamers going to see it? :->

>|>                                                     Tony
>|>                                                  GO 49ERS!!!


>Weren't you aware, the Bills kicked 49er a$$ already this season.  The 49ers
>are just as overrated as the Bills.  Or do you think that the 49ers pass
>defense is "the best in the league", too?

The Bills kicked the 49ers ass???  Last I remember, they barely beat
them by 3 points.  And from what I also remember, the Bills spent
most of the time playing keep up. They may have won the war, but
they lost the battle.

Perhaps the Niner's coverage isn't the best in the NFL.  But the
Bills aren't much better.  Don't forget to take into account that
the 49ers have been playing mostly zone coverage in these first 5
games too!  Numbers can be deceiving!

The 49ers have already established their offense.  Its amazing at
how quickly they have brought things together.  Usually it takes
them three quarters of the season to get things going.  Now if they
can just shore it up on defense, they WILL be awfully hard to beat!
Overrated I hardly think so!

                                                    Tony
                                                 GO 49ERS!!!
From: mzimmers@netcom.com (Michael Zimmers)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: 49ers/Rams
Date: 5 Oct 92 21:39:24 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <1992Oct5.161952.11026@morrow.stanford.edu> GC.SUL@forsythe.stanford.edu (Sullivan) writes:

>In article <1992Oct5.014308.2289@netcom.com>,
>mzimmers@netcom.com (Michael Zimmers) writes:

>>Granted, the Niners didn't appear to be inspired, but I'll take this game
>>as yet another example that their DL is poorly suited for pash rushing.
>>As good as Fagan, Holt, Brown, Washington, Carter et al are against the
>>run, none of them are great pass rushers, and only Holt is even above
>>average.  And adding Tim Harris to the picture is an incomplete solution;
>>when your best pash rusher is a linebacker, even a specialty linebacker,
>>you've got a problem.

>Do you mean like the problem they had with Dean, and Haley?

Yes.  When your best pass rusher is not an every-down player, you
set yourself up for all kinds of problems.  Part of the reason that
the Bills gave the Niners fits this year was the limited ability
of the Niners to get players like Harris onto the field at the 
right times.

I realize I'm dreaming, but I'd really like to see the Niners move
toward all-purpose DL personnel.

>Patience.  The D line will be fine as long as they stay healthy.

They aren't fine now, and they're mostly healthy.

>Every Niner fan recognizes that their team is better at the end of
>the season and in the playoffs when it REALLY counts.  Why is that,
>do you think it some sort of divine blessing.  No, a lot has to do
>with their defensive scheme, platooning, keeping guys fresh in the
>early season, especially the D line.  They play run first.  They
>don't really T off on QB until they get a good lead.

Actually, I think the real reason the Niners shine late in the year
is that their offense is so complex that they don't get into sync
for awhile.  If you look back on the Niners over the past decade,
their defense has been more consistent, while the offense sputters
early and turns into a December monster.  Last year was a great
example.

And it's hardly a compliment to point out that the DL doesn't get
aggressive without a big lead.

>Also, give credit to Rams.  Yes they have had a couple awful years,
>Everett has had little confidence, but it was nearly this same line
>that broke Everett in the first place.

I don't know what you're referring to here, but I was told that the
Rams OL was old, slow and untalented this year.  They sure didn't
look it yesterday.




-- 
Michael Zimmers                                    |  Home:  408 996 1984
SoftHelp                                           |  Work:  408 996 1965
Software Solutions for Open Systems                |  Data:  408 996 1974
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: centry@athena.mit.edu (Jae H Nam)
Subject: Re: O/D ratings
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 17:59:47 GMT

Christopher Glenn Huegle <ch44+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes in
article, <Uekr_qO00VAtI_q2RS@andrew.cmu.edu>

>Am I the only one who thinks that rating offenses and defenses by
>yardage is pretty worthless?  For example, if a team can drive the
>ball for good yardage and then choke near the end zone, they don't
>deserve to be a high rated offense.  Or on the other hand, if a
>defense gives up a bunch of yardage, but doesn't let the other team
>score, do they deserve to be at the bottom of the ratings?

I disagree.  They're not worthless.  True, the examples that you
gave above do happen, but a good defense over 16 games consistently
holds opponents to low mileage, and a good offense will consistently
get decent mileage.  If you look at the top offenses and defenses 
(discounting NE and Miami with 2 games) then it looks pretty accurate.

Of course, a team could have a good D but play in a division where
everybody has very good offenses, and that could make your D look
worse than it really is.  Or you could play a very tough schedule which
make your good offense and defense seem only better than avg on paper.

You just have to take it with a grain of salt.
Anyway, you can't judge a team just by any one set of stats.
You have to look at it in conjunction with other stats to get a
feel for the caliber of the team.  If other stats such as sack
totals, interceptions, 1st downs allowed, etc. support each other,
then you get a better idea.

That's just my (stupid/uneducated) opinion.
From: evans@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Doug Evans - CIT Network Operations)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: Should Marv Levy Be Fired?
Date: 6 Oct 92 23:31:00 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Oct6.180739.7334@math.ucla.edu>, rfedkiw@redwood.math.ucla.edu (Ronald Fedkiw) writes...
>Does anyone know what the hell this guy is talking about ???????
>What is this 2 of 3 dream ???? I sure don't trust this guys memory !!!
> 
>Saturday, Dec 15     Buf @ NYG 17 13  BILLS WIN
>Sunday, Jan 27       NYG v Buf 20 19  BILLS CHOKE

He was talking about the Monday night preseason game between the Bills
and the Giants. The Giants won. Big fucking deal. People who use 
preseason stats as a measure of performance are veritable football
morons.

In fact, this group seems to be filling up with those types lately.
Christ, are these Philly fans obnoxious or what?  I thought the
Giants fans were bad in 1989. I have to admit that they were eons
more tasteful than any of these Eagles woofers. Uggh.


Doug

                                  |                              Doug Evans
                                  | State University of New York at Buffalo
                                  |             evans@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: bsmith@serverx.osf.org (Bruce Smith)
Subject: Re: Patriots News 9/22
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 20:54:06 GMT

In article <JOHNDOE92Sep26.160940@squid.inmet> johndoe@squid.inmet (johndoe) writes:
>In article <1992Sep24.015424.19294@unlinfo.unl.edu> mgleason@cse.unl.edu (Mike Gleason) writes:
>
>>Not calling for MacPherson's head in the least,
>>--mg
>>
>
>me either.  the talent at qb is low, the talent at wr is *very* thin, the
>offensive line is immature, the rb's are still mostly raw, and now the
>kicking game seems suspect (maybe one missed fg and one missed pat is a poor
>statistical sampling, but ... )  given their start, if this team wins as
>many games as it did last year, i'll be surprised.  there is a definite
>reason the team went 1-15 two years ago, and they won several close games
>last year - a sign of a tough team to be sure, but an indicator that last
>year's record was overachieving.


Coach Mac is such a colorful personality that it's almost worth watching the
rest of team to see his enthusiasm and antics. Sunday's 41-7 whipping by the
Bills, while not what Patriot fans hoped for, still offered a few reasons
for hope.

The Pats controlled the ball in the first half, but penalties and the inability
to take advantage of scoring opportunities caused them to leave the field at
halftime behind 6-0. Buffalo's 5 TD's within ~13 minutes in the 2nd half
took care of the Pats' hopes.

Despite this, the Pats played a spirited game, at least while they were still
in it. Millen got sacked only once, as Bruce Armstrong did a great job of
handling Bruce Smith. Leonard Russell looked good when he got the ball, which
stopped happening in the 2nd half. Millen looked sharp in the 1st half, going
13-13, but when the Pats fell too far behind, they couldn't catch up. I thought
at least they showed signs of life. I would even give them a chance of beating
the also-still-winless Jets this coming Sunday night at the Meadowlands. The
week after they face the 49ers, a game they're not likely to win.

Although I too will be surprised if the Pats win as many games as they did last
year (6), it's not out of the question. They play the Jets and Colts twice,
the Browns once, and the Bengals once. That's 6 games they could conceivably
win. I think they have an outside shot at beating Atlanta, and also --
believe it or not -- the Saints, a team that has almost as much trouble 
finding the end zone as do the Pats. 

It's possible, of course, that they'll win no games, or one, two, or three.
They are victims of a tough schedule and management that lets a player of
Garin Veris' ability get away, and in general seems not exactly devoted to
building a winning team in NE. Maybe it's all a ploy to get them out of NE
and into St. Louis!

Anyway, here's hoping for the best for our undermanned and outgunned Patriots.
Thanks to John Brennan for posting the Pats news -- I enjoy it quit a bit,
John!

Bruce Smith
From: paul@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Paul R Krueger)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: Dallas was beaten by bad luck, not the eagles!
Date: 7 Oct 1992 02:04:11 GMT
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4

>In article <6OCT199216262371@rigel.tamu.edu> c1h3384@rigel.tamu.edu  writes:
>>
   <really ludicrous whining about the Cowboys' bad luck deleted>

  After watching Philly thrash Dallas on Monday night I was very happy. Am
  I a Philly fan? No. But I figured, "How great, Dallas and Buffalo lost.      
  Now maybe won't see so many asinine posts about how great these teams are,
  and how they are shoo-ins for the Super Bowl."

  Jeezus, it's the fifth week of the season. How about saving these 16-0
  and Super Bowl predictions until there's a week or two left in the season.
  While Dallas and Buffalo are both very good teams, Philly, Washington,       
  Houston, KC, San Fran and even Minnesota will probably figure into who's
  going to the Super Bowl. Oh, and Miami too. Now hopefully Philly and Miami
  fans won't be talking out of their collective asses, saying that their team
  is the greatest.

  --salty
From: sivaram@plains.NoDak.edu (Sivaram Hariharan )
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Eagles thrash Cowboys...MNF
Date: 6 Oct 92 05:00:25 GMT
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computing Network

Did the Gang-Green defence send out a loud message to all 
others in the NFL that any road to the Super-Bowl will
pass through the Vet. Stadium.

Did those Eagles thrash the Cowboys and silenced all this
hype about Dallas. Granted, that Dallas is good, but 
all those Texas teams, the OILERS included, talk more
and do less and at the beginning of each season act as
if the Superbowl is theirs to own.

Between the two Texas team, Dallas has a chance but the
loud mouthed Oilers will NEVER make it. 

As a Vikings fan , I am waiting for Moon & Co. to
come to the Metrodome... Boy! will I enjoy the
carnage.

S.H
From: frigo@asiago.med.ge.com (Fred Frigo 5-5806)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Packers drop Billups
Date: 6 Oct 92 18:19:32 GMT
Article-I.D.: mr.1992Oct6.181932.21955
Reply-To: frigo@opustech.com
Organization: Opus Technologies, Inc.   Brookfield, WI

The Green Bay Packers released Lewis Billups after he complained to
the local press that he was unhappy that he wasn't starting.

Billups had very little playing time vs. Atlanta.  He was benched
in favor of the rookie, Terrell Buckley.

Ron Wolf was quoted in the Milwaukee Sentinel as saying, "He didn't
want to stay here, so we obliged him."  Wolf pointed out that
Billups was released because the Packers "didn't need any 
distractions at this point." 

Billups played very well for the Packers this year.  He has looked
better than Vinnie Clark, the first round pick from last year
who plays at the left corner.  

Coach Mike Holmgren had a few harsh words for Chris Jacke who has
been blaming poor holds by Favre for his poor kicking record this
year.   Holmgren said that the holds were OK, and that Jacke has
only himself to blame for missing the kicks.
--
Fred Frigo    Opus Technologies, Inc.                 (__)
Voice: (414)-521-0400   FAX: (414)-549-9744           (oo)
E-mail: frigo@opustech.com                    /--------\/  
US-mail: PO Box 717,  Brookfield, WI 53008   * ||-----||
From: zezula@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Chad E Zezula)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: Need answers to some questions
Date: 6 Oct 92 18:19:16 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

In article <1992Oct6.172116.29446@nntpserver.chevron.com> hjjcl@usho77.hou281.chevron.com (J.J.Clyde) writes:
>Mike Reese writes:
>>
>>3)  How many Super Bowl MVPs played for the losing team?
>
>Chuck Howley, Cowboys, SB V loss to the Colts 16-13.  He had 2 int's, I
>think.  He was the only one, unless someone for the Bills won it for SB XXV?
>

Howley was the only one.  Ottis Anderson won the MVP for SB XXV, and he
was on the winning team (Giants).
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: aephel01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Subject: Re: Franchise Player???
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 14:36:16 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville

In article <1992Oct1.100411.1@ulkyvx.louisville.edu>, cl129424@ulkyvx.louisville.edu writes:
> In article <1992Oct1.025100.13463@netcom.com>, xtifr@netcom.com (Chris Waters) writes:
>> In <1992Sep30.095148.29435@walter.cray.com> jwest@wisc (Jeff West) writes:
>> 
>>>xtifr@netcom.com (Chris Waters) writes:
>>>: In <Bv3HxM.B6w@acsu.buffalo.edu> v130pwbq@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (ANTI-CHRIST) writes:
>>>: Not to downplay any of these fine players but the choice of Marino just
>>>: underlines the fact that you can't win by offense alone. [...]
>> 
>>>I think the idea here is to find out who people would take first if they had
>>>to start their own team today.  Obviously no one [OR TWO] players can make a
>>>great team alone.
>> 
>> Right.  I was just questioning the whole idea of a "franchise" player. 
>> And if you're actually trying to build a team[*], D might actually be
>> the best place to start.  I think that a team with great D and mediocre
>> O is more likely to succeed than a team with great O and mediocre D. 
>> (Which is too bad, since I think that my team has great O and mediocre
>> D.) 
>> 
>> [*]rather than simply concocting a fantasy team, since D is mostly
>> ignored in fantasy leagues.
>> 
>>>You mention Montana and forget the likes of Craig, Rice etc.  And true Reggie
>>>White would be a force on Any team but put him and Randall on the Patriots
>> 
>> I was just trying to come up with some quick examples of the kind of
>> people who might be called "franchise players".  People on both sides of
>> the ball.  Sure Singletary had help in Chicago's SB victory.  I still
>> think that he could have been called, at least at one time, a franchise
>> player.  My examples were off-the-top, but I'm sure you all get the
>> idea, and you might even be able to come up with better examples.
>> 
>> Basically, the original question was "what franchise player would you
>> pick," and then everybody started naming QB's.  I'm not quite sure who
>> I'd pick, but it would probably be a defensive player.
>> 
>>>For final proof I remember a team that had both the offensive AND defensive
>>>player of the year on the same team and in the same year and yet only won 1
>>>game!  Sayer's and Butkus.
>> 
>> Even worse.  Obviously, having a "franchise player" is not enough to
>> guarantee anything.  But if I could have a team that consisted of all
>> average players, except for one outstanding player, I'd rather have that
>> outstanding player playing for the defense.
>> 
>> Maybe I should just suggest someone that I think I'd pick as my
>> franchise player.  I'll give it some thought....
>> -- 
>> Chris Waters    | the insane don't | NOBODY for President!
>> xtifr@netcom.COM| need disclaimers | Because Nobody's perfect!!
> 
>                      If I could only pick one "Franchise Player" that
> person would be:  DON SHULA
> 
>                         just my .02
>                                       -doug THE dolfan-

      And he would look pretty stupid out there on the field.

-- no sig necessary --
      Aza