HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe)
Subject: Up and Coming Oriental-American Comedian
Followup-To: soc.culture.asian.american
Summary: Who is Margaret Cho?
Keywords: Margaret Cho
Organization: Miners for a Heart of Gold
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 92 21:24:33 GMT

Margaret Cho, a Korean-American, appeared on the Dennis Miller show.
She's the first Korean-American comedian who was actually funny.

She's quite unlike the idiot in "Father of the Bride."

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seikatsu no imi ha nan desu ka.            \|  |`      | Don't buy from Toyota;
Shitte itara oshiete kuremasen ka.          | -+-      | especially, don't buy
                                           /| / \      | from Capitol Toyota in
Copyright 1992.                                        | San Jose, California.
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Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: kyee@bnlux1.bnl.gov (kenton yee)
Subject: Asian Immigrants on SAT English, retaking, Artifical Improvements 
Organization: Brookhaven National Laboratory, Upton, NY 11973
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 23:20:23 GMT

In article <it1.702346882@Ra.MsState.Edu> it1@Ra.MsState.Edu (Tim Tsai) writes:
>Arthur_T_Hu@cup.portal.com writes:
>  Did the statistics indicate the average number of times the
>SAT was taken by category?  My cousin has been taking and
>studying for SAT's since he was in the 9th grade, and naturally
                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>his very latest score is very high (he's now a senior).  

  Since the 9th grade?  That's really disgusting!  I only took
 my SATs once, and my GREs and LSATs once.   But I've noticed 
 a recent trend to take "practice" SATs.  My 9th  grade cousin
 has taken the SAT.  I think all this practice violates the spirit
 of these exams, which after all are measuring instruments --- not 
  goals in themselves.
    Schools should penalize for retaking an exam.  
  This would cut down on the number of practice exams and
  restore some integrity into the scores.   I know that
  some law schools like Harvard are counting all scores
 equally, not just the highest.  


Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: shay@osiris (George Shay)
Subject: Re: Oriental bias against Indians ? How true ?
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 14:45:16 GMT

hyx1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Harry Y Xu) writes:

>In article <70164@ut-emx.uucp> vishram@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Vishram P.Dalvi) writes:
>>        Is it the same with Chinese too ? How social are Chinese people ?
>>One of my friends from Hongkong was applying to Medical School and when
>>he sought my help for something, he was totally surprised to find that
>>my room-mates too came forward to help him with what ever they could. He
>>told me that this would have NEVER happened with the Chinese guys he
>>knew. No intentions to offend any body here, but I am curious to know
>>how true it is.

>	We might emphasize more on spending time with the family rather 
>than friends.  We also (over-) value hard working.  I guess the 1st 
>generation Chinese emigrants are not as social as American born due to
>cultural gap.
 
I would like to spend more time with my friends myself. There is an old
saying in Chinese 'When you are at home, you depend on your parents. When
you go outside, you depend on your friends' (May not always true. In this
country, no one can depend on anyone else.) But I do value friendship as a
very important part in my life.
 
>	This guy is unfortunate not to know any helpful Chinese whom I 
>believe is the majority.  I myself would offer help "with what ever [I] 
>could" to anybody as I see the need.  
 
If she/he is a friend of my friend or in whatever relationship with my
friend or my family member, I will do my best to help him/her. But be
honest, I feel a little bit reluctant to help anyone I pick up on the
street. You know, there are so many people in this world who need help. I
just can not help all of them. I hope I could, to help everyone, to make it
a better world.
>	Not offensive at all.

>====================================>.sig <====================================
>  Harry Xu  (KB2LHA)	   Internet:  hyx1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu
> *Columbia University Amateur Radio Club (CUARC-<>-W2AEE)  *Founded, 1913*
> *The American Radio Relay League:  Amateur Radio >>---> A National Resource
> *New York Road Runners Club  -&-  Columbia University Road Runners Club 
>	"Go run; nothing else makes you feel as good as making love."  --ME
>====================================> end <====================================
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: mday@jukebox.lcs.mit.edu (Mark Day)
Subject: Re: English Only Movement
Followup-To: soc.culture.asian.american
Organization: /u/mday/.organization
	<6278@public.BTR.COM>
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 16:45:51 GMT

   timlee@public.btr.com writes:

   Well, then instead of saying that English is the "official" language,
   why not just make clear and simple laws which state what languages
   the government should provide its services in.  

I think that is exactly what is meant by English as the "official"
language.  English as the official language doesn't mean that the
government hunts down non-English speakers wherever they are, it just
means that government offices, forms, and publications use English.
It's making explicit something that had been implicit for many years,
but which has lately been changing as the government provides more
services in other languages.

   I am well aware that many bilingual education programs suck.  But
   the dividing line between the good and bad ones does not fall neatly
   between the high-speed ESL programs and the more gradual programs.

Dividing between "high-speed ESL" and "more gradual programs" is a red
herring.  The real question isn't the speed with which the program
occurs, but whether instruction occurs in the native language.  While
it is possible to have genuinely transitional bilingual programs,
those in which instruction is supposed to happen in the native
language are commonly subverted into "native language maintenance"
programs.  

--Mark Day

mday@lcs.mit.edu


Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: hyx1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Harry Y Xu)
Subject: Re: Oriental bias against Indians ? How true ?
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 08:33:40 GMT

In article <70164@ut-emx.uucp> vishram@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Vishram P.Dalvi) writes:
>        Is it the same with Chinese too ? How social are Chinese people ?
>One of my friends from Hongkong was applying to Medical School and when
>he sought my help for something, he was totally surprised to find that
>my room-mates too came forward to help him with what ever they could. He
>told me that this would have NEVER happened with the Chinese guys he
>knew. No intentions to offend any body here, but I am curious to know
>how true it is.

	We might emphasize more on spending time with the family rather 
than friends.  We also (over-) value hard working.  I guess the 1st 
generation Chinese emigrants are not as social as American born due to
cultural gap.
	This guy is unfortunate not to know any helpful Chinese whom I 
believe is the majority.  I myself would offer help "with what ever [I] 
could" to anybody as I see the need.  
	Not offensive at all.

====================================>.sig <====================================
  Harry Xu  (KB2LHA)	   Internet:  hyx1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu
 *Columbia University Amateur Radio Club (CUARC-<>-W2AEE)  *Founded, 1913*
 *The American Radio Relay League:  Amateur Radio >>---> A National Resource
 *New York Road Runners Club  -&-  Columbia University Road Runners Club 
	"Go run; nothing else makes you feel as good as making love."  --ME
====================================> end <====================================
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: fchen@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Franklin M. Chen)
Subject: Re: Reclaiming our heritage (was: Oriental bias against Indians...)
Originator: news@ernie.Princeton.EDU
Keywords: culture, heritage
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 19:35:21 GMT

In article <1992Apr12.075757.13889@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> hyx1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Harry Y Xu) writes:
>In article <gdtqVlm00awQ4k7UVZ@andrew.cmu.edu> ar2j+@andrew.cmu.edu (Anthony Russell Rosania) writes:
>>     To emphasizes Dave Hiebeler's post, I think the emphasis shouldn't
>>be on recognizing YOUR heritages achievments/culture, I believe one
>>should make an attempt to learn all cultures, and achievments of all
>>factions of HUMANkind. I for one am interested in learning about Asian
>	We all need self identity.  Heritages helps us in that respect.
>	Learning about cultures is not the same as adopting to them and 
>	living them out.  
>	The word "reclaim_ing" sounds a little corny in this context.

Some brief observations:

I've seen the word "culture" thrown around casually on this newsgroup
for some time now.  People seem to be using it in so many different ways
that all I can tell is that, like "God," nobody has the same idea of
what it is, except that it is a Good Thing.  It's a catchword like
Democracy or Truth.

People talk about culture as if it were something analyzed, studied, and
perhaps adopted; everyone is an amateur anthropologist, it seems.  I
prefer to think of a culture as a "way of life."  Anyone who lives in a
certain way, and attaches importance to this way of living, is
implicitly living a "culture."

In fact, practically everyone here clearly identifies with American
or Western culture, whether or not he realizes it.

Examples:  the talk about "humankind" above is a typical expression of
the ideals of the 18th century European enlightenment.  "We all need
self identity" is a popular version of an existentialist thread which
began with 19th century Romanticism.  Since the battle between
classicism and romanticism has existed for millenia--consider the
opposition of the Apollinian and Dionysian in ancient Greece, for
instance--and has never been fully resolved, it is no wonder that
nothing is being resolved in this newsgroup.  Two different Western
tendencies fighting each other.

I suggest that everyone experiment with non-Western forms of thinking,
in which abstract principles and dualistic black-white reasoning and
feeling are rejected.  Consider, for example, the meaning of the Yin-Yan
complementarity.

	Franklin Chen
From: upsi1@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu (Mathew Yee)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Chinatown unsafe? (was Re: Will America fall?)
Date: 15 Apr 92 03:17:11 GMT
Distribution: na

In <kum538INN5pa@jethro.Corp.Sun.COM> melindac@thedarktower.Corp.Sun.COM (I Shop because It's There) writes:
>	gt6281b@prism.gatech.EDU (John Hicks) :
>	> Too bad I can't say the same thing about downtown Atlanta at night!  
>	> My school is near the projects and not a night goes by where there 
>	> isn't shooting, police sirens, and ambulance sirens.  And when I 
>	> was a freshman a couple friends of mine had to duck behind a wall 
>	> 'cause some lunatic was spraying the area with bullets from his 
>	> automatic.  No joke.
>	> So personally, I'd much rather walk around Chinatown at night 
>	> than Atlanta.
Gee, I'm glad I don't have to deal with that problem.  Hope your friends
were okay.

>OHMIGOD! DWIGHT! DWIGHT! Does this mean it's the fault of a virulent
>**American** culture??????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yeah Dwight, is American culture virulent?  If it is, get the f*** outta
the country.

>	Melinda

>(I had to do it folks, couldn't help myself. Does anyone know how to
>make an ascii sarcastic smiley face?) 
If you find out how, let me know, pleaseeeee.



--
Mathew Yee
upsi1@mcl.ucsb.edu              or                    psi1@engrhub.ucsb.edu
SATAN in 1992!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I don't believe in voting for the lesser evil.
From: mday@jukebox.lcs.mit.edu (Mark Day)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: East Asian Ethics (was Re: Chinatown unsafe?)
Date: 10 Apr 92 15:57:57 GMT
Article-I.D.: jukebox.MDAY.92Apr10105757
Organization: /u/mday/.organization


   hyx1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Harry Y Xu) writes:

   > underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
   [some stuff irrelavent to the topic deleted]
   >  Chinese culture is, in many
   >aspects, very different from either Korean or Japanese culture.  Please
   >know the difference, for _YOUR_ and your children's own good.

   In my opinion, all East Asian Countries have similar culture.  The ethics,
   which governs peoples' behavior, are the same in China, Korea, Japan, and
   Vietnam.  

I hate to find myself defending Dwight Joe, but both of you are right
in some ways.  You're just talking about different levels of
abstraction.  Dwight Joe is incorrigible, so I'm not going to address
any errors he might have made; however, I'd like to quibble with 
a few of your subsequent points.

   Confucianism and Buddhism are the major or dominant 
   philosophy/religion concerning ethics in the area.  The only competition
   of any significance is Shintoism in Japan.

I think you need to account for Taoism in here somewhere.  I've often
heard that underneath Confucianism and Buddhism, many or most Chinese
are Taoist at heart.  I have no idea whether that is true; others are
more qualified to judge.

   For this reason, East Asians are more considerate than American and
   Europeans.  That's base on my observation of domitory living and other
   East-West inter-cultural encounters.

Generalizing from your personal experience seems unwise.  But even if
we ignore that, remember that in other contexts this apparent virtue
is a vice.  For example, some people say "East Asians are unassertive
and unquestioning in class."  Same cultural trait, different
interpretation.  A friend of mine who spent a year in Japan described
how at lunch, the most senior person would order first, and everyone
else would order the same thing.  Is that being considerate or just
mindless conformism and deference to authority? 

--Mark Day

mday@lcs.mit.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: it1@Ra.MsState.Edu (Tim Tsai)
Subject: Re: Asian Immigrants on SAT English, retaking, Artifical Improvements
Organization: Mississippi State University
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 05:13:22 GMT

kyee@bnlux1.bnl.gov (kenton yee) writes:
[I wrote about my cousin having taken the SAT several times since 9th grade]
>  Since the 9th grade?  That's really disgusting!  I only took
> my SATs once, and my GREs and LSATs once.   But I've noticed 
> a recent trend to take "practice" SATs.  My 9th  grade cousin
> has taken the SAT.  I think all this practice violates the spirit
> of these exams, which after all are measuring instruments --- not 
>  goals in themselves.
>    Schools should penalize for retaking an exam.  
>  This would cut down on the number of practice exams and
>  restore some integrity into the scores.   I know that
>  some law schools like Harvard are counting all scores
> equally, not just the highest.  

  Yeah, let's penalize all students who studies to get straight
A's too.  Afterall, if they can't learn from the brilliant
teaching at the school, they must be stupid.  Now tell me,
what's the difference between taking the standardized test 3
times and taking the practice test 3 times?  Better yet, enroll
in one of Stanley Kaplan or Princeton Review's courses.  How's
Harvard ever going to notice that?

  I think the concept of using standardized tests (and grades,
IMHO) as primary indicators are flawed in the first place.  What
exactly do these tests measure?  As most test scores can be
improved by cramming lots of useless information in your head
before the exam, so can the SAT's, GRE's, etc (less so on GRE's
subject test, but it can be done).  And no, I don't have better
alternatives.  I understand that when you have 20,000
applications to look through, grades and standardized test
scores are the most convenient indicators.

  BTW, I doubt the trend is recent.  In cultures that stress
education, it's the norm.  [this is the obligatory SCAA comment]

  Personally I tend to agree with you.  However, the system is there for
a reason and is not likely to change for sometime.

  Tim
From: yjhbhc@dante.lbl.gov (Joe Huang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Chinatown unsafe? (was Re: Will America fall?)
Date: 10 Apr 1992 02:53:13 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory, Berkeley
Distribution: na
Reply-To: yjhbhc@dante.lbl.gov (Joe Huang)
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.254.106
Keywords: unsafe, very unsafe

Dwight Joe wrote :

>> Please.  For your own sake, don't walk anywhere near China town.  You
>> are, however, permitted to spit on the place as you drive by on your
>> way to Japan town.

I've always wondered why Chinatowns are so dirty, it must be all
those Dwight Joes spitting out the car windows as they drive by... 
But gee, Dwight, SF Chinatown is not on the route to Japantown from
anywhere. Do you make a special detour there just to unload your
saliva?

>> 
>> Do visit Japan town.  It is pleasantly and cleanly arranged; do try out
>> the green-tea ice cream sold by the Korean vendor.  In fact, there are
>> a couple of Korean operated shops in Japan town; they have all wisely chosen
>> to stay away from China town.

Yes, I agree with Dwight on green tea ice cream. It is very good, I 
buy it all the time at a Chinese grocery in El Cerrito. The shopkeeper
hasn't acted too virulent so far...

>> 
>> My Chinese [strictly in the genetic sense] friend also said that LA's
>> Chinatown is just as bad, if not worse.  Chinese culture is, in many
>> aspects, very different from either Korean or Japanese culture.  Please
>> know the difference, for _YOUR_ and your children's own good.

I'm heartened to hear that you have Chinese [strictly in the genetic
sense] friends. Judging from s.c.a.a, your atttitude won't exactly
win you too many Chinese friends, genetic or otherwise. Remind me of
the joke about the kangaroo that walked into a bar and ordered a drink.
After maintaining a straight face for a while, the bartender couldn't
restrain his curiosity and remarked, "gee, we haven't seen too many
kangaroos around here recently..." The kangaroo replied, " well, at
these ridiculous prices, I'm not surprised.".

Bottoms up.

Joe Huang
From: gt6281b@prism.gatech.EDU (John Hicks)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: UT Austin: Alpha Chi Picnic Sat Apr 11
Keywords: DON'T MISS OUT!!
Date: 13 Apr 92 17:38:33 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

In article <1992Apr10.152113.13809@awdprime.austin.ibm.com> lkoh@elman.austin.ibm.com (Lisa Koh) writes:
>
>
>ATTN ALL THRILL SEEKERS AT UT AUSTIN:
>   
>               <info about Alpha Chi picnic deleted>


Hey Lisa,

If you're reading this, do you have another email address that you can
be reached at?  For some reason the mail I sent was returned.

-John
From: sbog6936@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Bin Ong)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: asian-american achievement
Date: 13 Apr 92 20:45:33 GMT
Article-I.D.: ux1.1992Apr13.204533.3816
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

sieh@quads.uchicago.edu (Lui Sieh) writes:

>I'm curious if the Stevenson study broke down Asian Americans into their
>respective ethnic categories and took note of which generation they belonged.

>If this was stated, sorry.  Please refresh my memory.

no, this was not stated....unfortunately...

>>>>rest delete


>IMO, I've found that the 80s was marked by a steady erosion of moral and
>ethical values and that people's attitudes have been more cynical than ever.


>-- 
>//Lui Sieh

Yes, and no. I think the trend towards environmental and ecological
awareness, as well as baby-boomers giving up their 'me-first'
attitude (however isolated or few in number) does bodes well for
the future :-). Plus stats indicating the leveling out of other
'unhealthy' social trends such as divorces (but not teen pregnancies)
and drug use, cross your fingers, are hopefully sustained.

Bin Ong
From: gwangung@milton.u.washington.edu (Just another theatre geek.....)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Reclaiming our heritage (was: Oriental bias against Indians...)
Date: 13 Apr 92 15:52:28 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Apr13.155228.15339
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <1992Apr12.174139.7084@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> hyx1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Harry Y Xu) writes:
>	I'm ignorant on this.  I just think that N>2 Asian population is
>	small enough to be considered negligible in this discusion.  We 

	Ummm....I hardly think 20-30 percent is negligible.


-- 
Roger Tang gwangung@milton.u.washington.edu
Executive Producer Emeritus, Asian Theatre at the UW;
	The definition of having balls is a non-singer who goes karaoke singing 
with the cast of a musical revue.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,soc.culture.indian
From: as6n@uvacs.cs.Virginia.EDU (Ambar Sarkar)
Subject: Tanned bucolics( was: Re: Oriental bias .....)
Organization: University of Virginia Computer Science Department
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 17:43:04 GMT

In article <1992Apr16.152319.28090@nynexst.com>, you write:
> In article <1992Apr15.215353.26089@tcsi.com> gwu@nujoizey.tcs.com (George Wu) writes:
> >-
> >     At risk of giving Dwight yet more ammunition to bash the Chinese, I
> >believe there is some bias among orientals against people (not just Indians)
> >with darker skin.  This is not based upon more than a few personal
> >experiences, but it is the general feeling I get.
> 
>   But I think this is due to class differences, i.e. if you work out in
>   the fields, you are darker and if you're an intellectual, you're pale
>   and thin (bookish types are looked up to in traditional Chinese culture).
>   I don't think it is a race thing, because the same person would have
>   a tan if he worked in the fields and thus be darker.
> -- 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Clare Chu, Ph.D.             Data & Information Services
> NYNEX Science & Technology   clare@nynexst.com
> White Plains, NY 10462       AMIGA RULES!!!

Oh please! Does the epicanthic fold common among orientals a result of being
too much out in the sun and having to squeeze eyes all the time? On no, that
would have made all orientals tanned to the extreme. Again, why are 
white farmers still fairer than most Indian intellectuals? Oh, maybe the 
latter study out in the fields while planting seeds whereas the former only
do hydroponics in their homes!

Come on, why is it so hard to accept the fact that there are bigots in each 
and every culture, even if that culture happens to be your own. See if those
guys can be educated(No not PhD, but talked into sense).


At least you could have spared us(the darker intellectuals) the 'tanned bucolic' image!

Regards

Ambar Sarkar