From: rivk@ellis.uchicago.edu (nora gayle rivkis)
Subject: Re: Religion and Politics (was: Re: CLINTON SPEECH TEXT...)
Reply-To: rivk@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 00:42:14 GMT

In article <3726@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh) writes:
>In article <1992Sep3.203438.28853@cs.brown.edu> dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) writes:
>#aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh) writes:
>>
>#Do you care to elaborate a little here?  Do you believe that
>Israel had no part in Lebanon's civil war?
>>
>>What about all the other wars? As for the civil war in Lebanon,
>I don't remember the exact date it started, but in 1975 there
>were already about 30,000 victims. This was long before any
>IDF soldier set foot in Lebanon, except for some commando raids
>that didn't have any significant influence on the global
>picture.
>
>Hmmmm.....
>
>But what about after?

Not trying to answer for Danny: yes, they've been involved since, and
I don't think they should be... for reasons primarily to do with Israeli
security, but nonetheless. But if the war was going on strong long before
Israel ever got involved, Israel can't have been the cause of it; at worst,
they haven't helped to end it.

>#:-)  Don't you people believe that Rabbi Menachem Schneerson is
>a prophet?  :-)
>>
>>"You people"?? What does that mean? I don't think any secular
>Jew believes that, and many orthodox Jews reject it also. This
>has been the reason for a great strife between certain
>Jewish orthodox communities.
>
>Well, I was just saying 'you guys', but actually I know this.
>I was just joking, actually since you asked if I saw a prophet
>lately ... I was just trying to humor you a little ... darn, it
>didn't work :-).

Understood, Anisa, but please be careful of your jokes; they can get
a bit stereotyped and it's not a good idea. I know you don't mean it
badly... but you'd have reason to object if somebody threw in a humor-
ous "you guys" reference that they really knew better than, to all Muslims,
with respect to something you and a lot of them didn't believe. As I
said, I know you meant it nicely and I'm not offended in this case,
but please try to be careful.

>#Hmmm..... very interesting.  So you are not a Zionist?
>>
>>Shhh! Everybody's listening! But, seriously - I cannot answer
>that question; it is like you aksed me if I am a tefdytgbsd. There
>>is simply no common definition of Zionism, so the question is
>not defined. Suffice if I say that I believe Israel should
>exist forever, within secure limits, and, most hopefuly, in
>peace.
>
>And what do you say about Palestinians?

I think they should have their own state if and only if this can be
accomplished without wiping out Israel. I think it can, but it's going
to have to be handled very carefully, and it'll require a lot of help
from the Palestinians to make sure it does get done without posing a
serious threat to the existence of Israel. I'm not positive yet whether
the majority of Palestinians are really most interested in a state or
whether their primary goal is really to destroy Israel, with the state
as simply a cover-story to help them do it. If it's the first, they should
be able to have it. If it's the second, they've no right to it and will
get no help from me.

Which do *you* want, Anisa?

>Recognition is the first step towards peace .... :-)

Recognition on both sides. Do you recognize Israel's right to exist
permanently within secure borders?

>>I agree with the rest of your post, which I deleted to save space.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>What's going on here?!? :-)

Oh, it's been known to happen occasionally. Even I've been known to
agree with you occasionally -- and did with the rest of that article,
though I neglected to say so -- and I'm a lot more conservative than
Danny is. ;-)

>Anisa

	-Nora


-- 
"Light one candle for those who are suffering pain we learned so long ago..."

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