From: poore@ds9.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: How to choose a Martial Art discipline?
Keywords: hsing-i  pa-kua  t'ai chi
Date: 17 Apr 92 13:59:20 GMT
Reply-To: poore@ds9.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore)
Organization: Florida State University

In article <1992Apr16.231328.1@gallua> kjcole@gallua.bitnet writes:
>In article <1992Apr16.233032.26762@beaver.cs.washington.edu>,
>stumpf@cs.washington.edu (Todd Stumpf) writes: 
>[a more polite version of what I was driving at, deleted]
>Increasingly, I am being made aware of just how foolish my initial anger must 
>have appeared to some.  My apologies, for whatever they're worth.

I don't think appologies are neccessarily in order. However, you
mentioned previously that you participate in other newsgroups. Perhaps
it is different outside the .rec hierarchy, but consider that you have
just stepped into a conversation involving many people who already know
each other and are familiar with each other. We have discussed many
things over in the past couple years, and I can understand how a
'stranger' might come in and think its pretty useless. But, we have a
certain 'context' that you lack, since you are not familiar. Anyway, no
big deal...

>>     With this in mind, I ask this question of those of you who have 
>>   actually decided that this style/instructor/local/whatever was the
>>   the right one for you, AND STAYED WITH IT, what made the difference?

This questions isn't always even relevent. Since Kevin is in DC it is,
but consider that many of us live in small towns (eg. Tallahassee is
only a little over 100k) and we simply lack the choice that people in
large cities have. So for many of us, it is just a question of
logistics.

>>     Did you try many different styles and techniques? Or just walk
>>   down to the local dojo and sign up?

In my case, I had some exposure through friends, and I knew what artI
wanted to study. So I went to the school and studied there. Despite
having some good people, and a fine lineage, it really didn't measure of
to my standards. It took three years to figure it out...but I don't
consider it to have been time wasted. 

I came across a person who was willing to teach me, and who was much
better than my former teacher. How could I tell? Much of it was
attitude. No ego, a certain self-confidence and genuine respect for
other arts. Another was his background. He had been practicing longer,
and had practiced different arts and worked with people from very
diverse backgrounds, while my previous teacher lacked this perspective.
Finally, when working  with him, I could feel: much more power, much
more control (of himself and me), much more sponteneity, and more
adaptability.

So my suggestions are:

Avoid xenophobic schools. Someone who denigrates other styles, teachers,
or methods is to be avoided. IMHO, someone who demonstrates this lacks
skills and humility.

Test places. Only through physically working with people will you learn
to get a feel for 'the real thing'. You can tell when someone has you in
control, and I think this is indicative of at least some level of
achievement.

Look for pedigree. It isn't a guarantee, but it doesn't hurt. 
be polite in asking such questions.

Finally, are they people you like, people you trust, and people you can
learn from? If you cannot respect the teacher as a person, you will have
difficulty learning from him/her. When you find a place where you feel
comfortable, you will know it. 

>Unlike a lot of the folks who are posting, I am (perhaps foolishly) not
>anticipating being in a real fight, nor in any competition.  I may be wrong, 

Not really. We discuss it for a variety of reasons. As you state later,
these are *martial* arts. More to the point, there is a certain rift
between training in your school, with your partner, with people who
(eventually) become friends, and being assaulted 'on the street'.
Naturally, we would be ignoring a facet of our training if we didn't
consider these situations. 

>I *AM* looking for some exercise, with bizzare, off-the-wall, mystical, mumbo-
>jumbo and a wee bit of self-discipline.  And, being older than your average 
>...<
>three philosophies that seem interesting to me.  I'm planning to dig around for
>more info on hsing-i, pa-kua (sp?) and the ever-popular t'ai chi. 

If you want bizzare, off-t-wall, etc., you've come to the right place.
Perhaps these arts appeal because you like the sound of Taoist
philosophy? These arts are said to be Taoist arts (though there are a
few weirdo Shaolin Buddhist types around here that might dispute
this..;)

>of a skeptic.  And yet, I believe there is more than one way to "know" things. 
>I am hoping that, if I find a teacher who knows something of the philosophy, I
>can shift my way of looking at things.  I expect it to take several years.  Not

This will happen. I find it hard to understand how extended study cannot
change a person...in just about every way.

>telling me 2+2=71.  No matter how much I try, my mind rejects certain
>information.  I don't know if I can stay the course, but I won't know til I
>try. 

Wellll...some things work, some don't. If someone sez 2+2=71, then you
don't believe it. But if they show you why, then you have to pay
attention!

>I *DO* realize that in spite of it all, these are all "fighting arts", and so, 
>perhaps I will ultimatly want to seek a different path, since I'm really no 
>fighter.  (I'll mince words, but that's about as far as I want to go.)

Fine. Perhaps you will be interested by the certain paradox often found
in martial artists, and perhaps after a while you'll begin to believe
them when they say they are pacifists.

Good luck...

David Poore
poore@ds9.scri.fsu.edu