From: jonathan@mantis.co.uk (Jonathan Egre')
Newsgroups: alt.guitar
Subject: Re: Using a bow?
Date: 31 Aug 92 09:36:23 GMT
Organization: Mantis Consultants, Cambridge. UK.

dudek@acsu.buffalo.edu (David T. Dudek) writes:

> loffit@wam.umd.edu (Dixie Cup) writes:
> 
> >You can get a lot of very cool sounds 
> >     [using a violin bow on a guitar] and neat
> >stuff, but in the end, if you like Led Zeppelin, you'll feel like you're jus
> >ripping off Jimmy Page.  Anyway, I wouldn't be caught dead bowing a guitar
> >in public because I'd be labeled as a Page rip off.  
> 
> This probably belongs in another discussion altogether, but every musician
> is influenced, intentionally or not, by the music he/she listens to in the
> same manner that everyone is socialized as children.  Just because you are
> playing with a bow (or tapping, etc.) does not mean you are ripping anyone
> off.  EX: Nobody says you are ripping off James Taylor because you play an
> open G-chord with a pick.  Do whatever the hell you want and have fun.
> That's what music is about.

Playing open G with a pick is not considered "a James Taylor rip-off" 
because:

(1) Practically everybody does it.  It is considered a standard technique
    - rudimentary, even.

    Ten years ago, two-handed tapping was considered to be 
    "Eddie Van Halen's special flashy technique", because he was the only
    famous player who was using it.  In fact Van Halen was not the first 
    player to use two-handed tapping, but he did think of it independently 
    and he was the first player that many people noticed using tapping.
    Today, *many players* use this technique, *therefore* it is considered 
    simply another technique in the rock guitarist's repetoire (note the 
    cause and effect).

    Similarly, Jimmy Page was not the first player to use a bow on a guitar,
    but he did think of it independently, and as he is by far the most famous
    guitarist to use the bow, bowing the guitar is associated solely with
    Jimmy Page.  *If* a couple of famous players, such as Vai or Satriani
    (or even Adrian Vandenberg, if he did it on an album and not just 
    as a flashy shot in a video that was not related to the recorded music) 
    started using the bow then it would quickly become "a semi-standard
    technique" like two-handed tapping.

(2) Playing the guitar with a bow is a damn sight more obvious to the 
    non-musician than playing a certain chord with a pick.
 
> >However, I do belive
> >it is a legitimate technique and if you have the guts to do it live go
> >for it.
> 
> Yes, but it also has to be for you.  I've found some neat ways to use it
> myself, both for sound effects and as a background drone like an organ.
> Experiment!  Try all kinds of things like springs, small appliances, (ex:
> power drill), magnets, and whatever else you can think of.

Playing the guitar with a power drill is in the same boat as playing with
a bow: it's currently associated with a single famous player (Paul Gilbert).
The *first* player to copy this trick will be labeled as a 
"Paul Gilbert rip-off", but if *many* players copied it, it would become a 
standard trick.

> Just remember
> that such effects have their place, and it is your job to find a balance
> between straight playing and other techniques that is pleasing to the ear. 

I completely agree with this.

To reply to a couple of points in another posting on this thread:

(1) Playing with a bow is considered more of a "Jimmy Page rip-off" than 
    playing Jimmy Page riffs, simply because copying riffs is an accepted 
    and expected practice, and copying special flashy techniques and visual
    moves isn't.

(2) I agree whole-heartedly the advice to *experiment* with unorthodox 
    techniques.  However, the specific case of bowing the guitar will not
    be *perceived* as experimenting because a famous player (i.e. Page) 
    has already done it in front of millions of people.  This preception
    remains true *even if* the new player who bows the guitar was previously
    unaware of this fact.  

    Unless, of course, you can develop the idea of bowing the idea to the
    point where you are clearly going beyond what Page did.

                                    -o-O-o-

The bottom line, however is: if you don't mind being accused of ripping off
another player, then certainly go ahead and use the bow.  If enough of us do
it, then it will become another semi-standard trick like two-handed tapping.

I think that the person who originally asked about bowing the guitar in
this newsgroup did think of it independently, which is to his credit.
But, unfortunately, you can't explain this to your audience - it's just
not done.

These postings should be considered as a *frindly warning*, and not as 
flaming the original person, who had a genuinely creative idea but
unfortunatly was not the first person to have the idea.

--
Jonathan Egre' = jonathan@mantis.co.uk = jonathan_e@cix.compulink.co.uk
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