From: bontchev@fbihh.informatik.uni-hamburg.de (Vesselin Bontchev)
Subject: Re: Legal Stuff!
Reply-To: bontchev@fbihh.informatik.uni-hamburg.de
Organization: Virus Test Center, University of Hamburg
Date: 22 Dec 92 13:57:15 GMT

strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes:

> >> Thus PGP does not violate the restriction
> >> against exporting DES since it doesn't use DES, though it cannot be
> >> imported legally into the U.S. where it violates RSA's patents. Some
> >> argue it can't be imported into the U.S. without a Munitions Act
> >> license either.
> >
> >The above statement, is a complete mess.

> No, it carries two separate thoughts:

It nevertheless is a complete mess, and you didn't bother to reply to
my arguments - you didn't even quote them. Instead, you are
introducing other messy arguments:

> 1. PGP cannot be imported legally
> since it violates RSA's patents.

Could you qote the law that states that importing of patented devices
is illegal?

> Patents cover copying, possessing,
> or use, and where Vesselin got the idea U.S. patents cover only
> use is beyond me. 

From PKP's claims. They claim that "in North America [hey, they seem
to think that Canada is part of the USA] a license is needed to make
use and sell" RSA-based programs. Nowhere is stated that a license is
needed from them to -import- such a product. (Note: we're not talking
about the ITAR restrictions here, only about patent infringement.)
Where David got the idea that a patent license is needed for importing
is beyond me.

> 2. PGP cannot be imported legally since
> it violates the Munitions Act/ITAR, which requires a license for
> importing, as well as exporting crypto, and PGP contains IDEA.

"Some argue that it is so", but you said that it cannot be imported
due to the patent restrictions...

> Next Vesselin claims U.S. users may obtain PGP legally from a number
> of U.S. sites, which he lists. He is mistaken. It is on those sites
> illegally, for reasons stated just above, and ftping them to other
> U.S. sites is just as illegal.

The mistaken one is you. One of the sites quoted by me is in Canada.
The ITAR regulations do not forbid export/import of crypto software
to/from Canada. Canadians don't need a patent license to do whatever
they want with PGP. Therefore, they have the full right to have it on
their ftp site, exportable for the USA. The citizens of the USA have
the full right to ftp it from there, because they do not break any
ITAR restrictions (which are even not a law, sic!). Therefore, anybody
in the USA is able to obtain a copy of PGP in a perfectly legal way.
Whether they decide to actually use it, to consult a lawyer, to be too
paranoid to do whatever with it, or to swamp the net with false claims
about silly local laws is their own problem.

> It does not matter who did the
> importing; possession of illegally imported munitions is illegal.

First, it definitively does matter who did the importing - if I import
some drugs in your country, it will be me who will be prosecuted, not
Joe Public. Second, is passession of any munitions in the USA really
illegal? I thought that the Americans have the right to bear arms...
You seem to claim that they do not, just as they do not seem to have
freedom of speech, because it is considered conspiracy... I wonder if
they (according to you) have any constitution at all...

> Maybe in Bulgaria what is physically possible is equivalent to what is
> legal, but not in the U.S.

Maybe you are just not well informed what is legal in the U.S. and
what is not?

Two more points.

1) Patents cannot forbid the import of the source code of a program,
especially if you intend to learn something from it. After all,
wasn't the patent system invented just for that purpose?

2) PKP themselves claim in the RSA FAQ that they have a policy to
allow free implementations of RSA for learning purposes.

Maybe you should get your facts straight? Or, if you don't want to,
maybe you should stop spoiling the pleasure of the others?

Regards,
Vesselin
-- 
Vesselin Vladimirov Bontchev          Virus Test Center, University of Hamburg
Tel.:+49-40-54715-224, Fax: +49-40-54715-226      Fachbereich Informatik - AGN
< PGP 2.1 public key available on request. > Vogt-Koelln-Strasse 30, rm. 107 C
e-mail: bontchev@fbihh.informatik.uni-hamburg.de    D-2000 Hamburg 54, Germany