HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tinsel@uiuc.edu (Thomas Aaron Insel)
Subject: Re: NeXTstep for PowerPC --- THE ONLY CHOICE
Originator: tai50080@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
Reply-To: tinsel@uiuc.edu
Organization: Masticating Illini, Urbana Illinois
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 23:44:42 GMT

bgrubb@dante.nmsu.edu (GRUBB) writes:

>					      In order store software avalbilty
> follows this pattern: DOS{always}, Amiga{most of the time}, Windows{Maybe},
> Mac{somewhat rare if avalable}, UNIX{never}. 

When I go into a mass-market software store (Egghead, etc.), what do I see?
The most prominent, and the fastest-growing, section of software seems to
be Windows.  There's still a good deal of DOS software, but it's being
down-played, because most people would rather buy, and most dealers would
rather sell, Windows software.  Many programs available for Windows and DOS
are also available for the Mac, as well as Mac-only packages.  If there is
Amiga software at all, there's very little.

This isn't to say anything bad about the Amiga, or to down-play its 
relatively decent software selection.  However, at least in the U.S., most
of this software doesn't show up in stores.  

One qualifier: games.  Usually available for DOS, rarely for Windows, and
depending on the store, there may very well be a better Amiga selection than
Mac.
-- 
Thomas Insel (tinsel@uiuc.edu)
  "Conform and be dull." -- J. Frank Dobie
From: wilcoxt@cuug.ab.ca (Terrance Wilcox 229-3361)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Need to convince boss 486's are *not* w
Date: 25 Jan 93 10:34:56 GMT
Organization: Calgary UNIX User's Group

In article <l7f3y=h@rpi.edu> johnsd2@jec326.its.rpi.edu.its1 writes:
>>Yes, but it is simply a TIFF image.  It's hard to believe that he was
>>able to damage the OS by changing it.  He must have deleted a bunch of
>>files.
>
>That seems a bit uncharitable. Is it easy to accidentally delete files
>on the NeXT? (I would not have thot so)

It's very difficult to delete system files unless you login as root. As
root, you can destroy everything fairly easily. Therefore, only qualified
people should have root access. This is not to say that you shouldn't use
the root account when you need to, just that you shouldn't touch it if you
don't know what you're doing.

>He was able to accidentally muck up his machine to the point that
>nobody- not even NeXT- could figure out how to unmuck it- just
>by sheer ignorance?

It takes a fair amount of work to kill UNIX. Of course, if he had read the
manual, he could have booted through the ROM monitor and bypassed the 
tiff login panel. Then he could have repaired his error. He didn't need
to reinstall. All I can say is 'would you let a 2 year old play with ResEdit?'

I doubt it. If they hadn't been logged in as root, they couldn't have
done all the damage they did. If they don't know what they're doing, they
should stay away from the root account.


Terry Wilcox
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
From: jess@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Jess M Holle)
Subject: Re: Need to convince boss 486's are *not* way to go...
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 13:57:46 GMT

Yes, the on-board video on the IIci can only handle up to 8 bits per pixel.

One can add up to two additional monitors, however, which can be of any bit
depth up to 24 bpp.

The next can't handle multiple monitors, can it?


Jess Holle
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
From: johnsd2@lib102.its.rpi.edu.its1 (Daniel Norman Johnson)
Subject: Re: Need to convince boss 486's are *not* w
Reply-To: johnsd2@lib102.its.rpi.edu.its1
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 00:31:24 GMT

In article 1922@esl.ESL.COM, drm@esl.com (Don McGregor) writes:
>In article <3gg359q@rpi.edu> johnsd2@vccnw04.its.rpi.edu.its1 (Daniel  
>Norman Johnson) writes:
>> 
>>This is a little inaccurate- this sort of stuff happens if you delete one
>> file on the NeXT, from what I am hearing. And the NeXT does nothing
>> to even warn you, never mind recover.
>
>The correct way to do this on the NeXT does not involve deleting any  
>files.  You log in as root and type, in a terminal window, 

Ok. Im not sure why I said that actuall :/; I had been talking on email
about that sort of thing and it just slipped in.. Hmm..

>dwrite loginwindow ImageFile <path>
>
>Where <path> is the absolute pathname to the new tiff.  This just resets a  
>default, and leaves all existing files alone.

Absolute pathnames? Yech! :(

What happens if you give it a pathname that is wrong, to a non-tiff
file, to a corrupt tiff file, or to nothing?

>You can't reset the login tiff unless you're root.  It's assumed that if  
>you're root you know what you're doing; you can just as easily nuke sdmach  
>(system equivalent on the mac.)  

Gotch. This be good.

>The existence of file permissions makes catastrophic file deletion errors  
>LESS likely, since most of the critical system files cannot be mucked with  
>by someone without root.  So it is somewhat more difficult for a naive or  
>even malicious user to hose a system.  Not to mention making life more  
>difficult for viri.

All very good.
---
			- Dan Johnson
And God said "Jeeze, this is dull"... and it *WAS* dull. Genesis 0:0

These opinions have had all identifiying marks removed, and are untraceable.
You'll never know whose they are.
From: rawyatt@phakt.usc.edu (Robert Alexander Wyatt)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: PC, MAC or Amiga?
Date: 23 Jan 1993 14:37:10 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: phakt.usc.edu


Since Apple is going to be bringing out PowerPC systems (as is IBM), I 
would wait and see what happens...no sense in buying a Mac now only to have
PowerPC take its place (ultimately)...

Might as well fan the flames...I would buy a high speed 486...That way you
can run NeXTstep486 (which will also run DOS and Windows)...NeXTstep has
a Mac emulator, Executor, which is pretty good, although doesn't emulate
everything...actually the list is pretty short (maybe around 50 tested and 100
not tested apps)...but if Quorum ports its emulator to NeXT, then any NeXT
user can run any Mac app...in addition to DOS and Windows...

So, with a 486, you have the option of running NeXTstep, the industry's best
GUI/OS (I don't need to be flamed about this...), and if that doesn't work
out for you, you still have DOS or Windows...

-Rob
rawyatt@scf.usc.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
From: johnsd2@lib106.its.rpi.edu.its1 (Daniel Norman Johnson)
Subject: Re: Need to convince boss 486's are *not* w
Reply-To: johnsd2@lib106.its.rpi.edu.its1
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 23:25:53 GMT

In article 9897@athena.mit.edu, zmonster@athena.mit.edu (Eric M Hermanson) writes:
>In article <1993Jan22.135746.5669@gn.ecn.purdue.edu> jess@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Jess M Holle) writes:
>>Yes, the on-board video on the IIci can only handle up to 8 bits per pixel.
>>
>>One can add up to two additional monitors, however, which can be of any bit
>>depth up to 24 bpp.
>>
>>The next can't handle multiple monitors, can it?
>>
>>Jess Holle
>
>NeXT's do handle multiple monitors.  It is kind of neat what the NeXT
>Dimension system can do.  If you have two monitors hoooked up, you can drag
>a window to the edge of one monitor, and the window will appear on the 
>other monitor just as if you had one continuous huge monitor. 
>

I'll have to remember that. I've been going around thinking only
the Mac could do that.

---
			- Dan Johnson
And God said "Jeeze, this is dull"... and it *WAS* dull. Genesis 0:0

These opinions have had all identifiying marks removed, and are untraceable.
You'll never know whose they are.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
From: tmaas@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (Anthony Maas)
Subject: Re: rtaylor@cie.uoregon.edu (Russ Taylor)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 15:29:49 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM Rochester

In article <aggie-200193204326@wealthy.ocean.fsu.edu>, aggie@wealthy.ocean.fsu.edu (I R A Aggie) writes:
|> In article <1993Jan20.205213.8189@rchland.ibm.com>,
|> tmaas@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (Anthony Maas) wrote:
|> > 
|> 
|> No, the second is usually redundant. How many app's actually use
|> the second one?? And then there's the X window's apps. How do they
|> map *three* buttons into two? [I don't know, we don't have any
|> X stuff on our NeXTs]
|> 
|> James

I own a NeXT, and every commercial app I own uses the second button
as a second menu pop-up(Mathematica, WriteNow, WordPerfect, Diagram,
Improv, SoftPC).  Even the programs I've gotten from anonymous ftp's
use it(ALL of them - about 50 programs).  You can also drag off the 
submenus you want and keep them close at hand in case you want to 
use them but don't want to pull up the whole menu again.

The second menu is designed in so that you don't HAVE to go to the main
menu bar or remember command key options.  You can just use it 
anywhere in the app you want to pull up the main menu.  Kind of
like how we the middle button here in Rochester under AIX.

I also, though, don't know about X.  I've never used it on a NeXT, so
I'll let somebody else answer that if they choose to.

Tony Maas
IBM Rochester, MN
maas@cs.uwlax.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
From: bcombs@wixer.cactus.org (Brian Combs)
Subject: Re: Mac dead?
Organization: Real/Time Communications
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1993 19:19:05 GMT


Yeah, I can hear the guys on comp.sys.amiga.advocacy right now...


"The Amiga **is** a real computer!  It's not a toy like everybody says!  I'm
not kidding!"


;-)

Brian
-- 
Real Programmers don't comment their code.   |  Brian Combs   Austin, Texas
If it was hard to write,                     |  bcombs@wixer.cactus.org
It should be hard to understand.             |
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
From: eriks@lin.foa.se (Erik Svensson FOA2)
Subject: Re: Computer abbrivations
Organization: FOA, Linkoping, Sweden
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 09:29:04 GMT

ifbb657@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Douglas Floyd) writes:


>Has anyone heard a better abbrivation than this for Macintosh?

>Makes Applications Crash If Not The Operating System Halted

>Any good ones for Win NT, or Microsoft?

Win NT = Not in Time (weak, I know).

cheers
--
     Erik Svensson
    Research Officer            National Defense Research Establishment (FOA)
 Guided Weapons Division        Stockholm, Sweden      eriks@fenix.lin.foa.se

"The problem with the future is that it keeps turning into the present"
 -- Hobbes
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
From: howard@netcom.com (Howard Berkey)
Subject: RISC
Keywords: Buzzword Doublespeak
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 18:26:03 GMT


Well, here in my hot little hands is the Microsoft Windows NT
technical comparison with OS/2 (no flames, I'll probably use it as
toilet paper or something...bleeccchhh) and it defines RISC as Reduced
Instruction Set Computing.  Funny though, they later make references
to "additional processor functions" and "low level multiprocessing
support" on RISC chips so it appears that they too are unclear of the
actual meaning.

Oh well.
-- 
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Howard Berkey						   howard@netcom.com
		"I AM the Lizard Queen" - Lisa Simpson
... .. ...   ... .. ...   ... .. ...    ... .. ...   ... .. ...   ... .. ...
From: wrob@unixg.ubc.ca (Robert Wong)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: NeXT vs Mac (Again) was "Need to convince boss..."
Date: 21 Jan 1993 09:37:52 GMT
Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada
NNTP-Posting-Host: unixg.ubc.ca

In article <1993Jan20.154614.24012@pellns.alleg.edu> smytonj@murr11.alleg.edu (Jim Smyton) writes:
>Great. Now I know NextSTEP 3.0 is cool.  I used it today, and aside from a  
>new folder look and a funky preference file that screwed up my docks, I  
>did not see any big advantage over 2.x.  For the an office worker, which  
>is what this thread was originally about, these changes will probably not  
>mean squat.  Tell me when an 040 NeXT running Mach and NextSTEP will run  
>at the same speed as an 030 Mac running 7.1 and I will be slightly  
>interested in getting off the cases of the people who keep saying NeXT is  
>better than Mac.

I won't touch the my computer is better than yours issue.

So, what is so hot about NS 3.0?  

How about Display Postscript level 2 (PS level 2) to make your NeXT laser 
printer automatically PS 2?  (I don't think upgrading system software on a Mac
will up the PS level on a Laserwriter NT/NTX)

How about built-in Pantone-colour for the publishing people out there?

How about Appletalk client and Novell client support?

How about the ability to read Mac floppies?  (I know the Mac already has this
feature. :-))

How about printer drivers for Epson & Proprinters?

How about better network management tools?

How about localization support for Eng/French/German/Span./Italian/Swedish?
(I think you guys got that in System 7.0 or 7.1)

All this and more comes when you buy a new system or updgrade ($) your existing
system.  Not bad eh?

>
>Tell me when NeXT will put out hardware that is compatible with anything  
>else.  The monitors use different scan rates, the printers use the  
>computer's PostScript, and this whole hooking up to a Mac network thing is  
>bupkis.  Sure the Mac sees the NeXT as another Mac, but wouldn't it be  
>nice if through all this, there was some kind of compatibility between the  
>machines?

NeXT colour monitors don't use funny scan rates.  I have heard people use
NEC monitors off the shelf.  If you don't like using the NeXT laser, you 
could buy a LaserWriter and hook it up via the serial port.  (Of course the
laser would be difficult to upgrade to a new level of PS.)

Uh, what is bupkis?  Compatibility between Mac & NeXT.  Good idea.  I wonder
how long it will take Mac to be NeXT-compatible? :-) (tongue-in-cheek) 

>
>One thing the NeXT does do better than the Mac...The little spinning disk,  
>that I see so much of, looks much better than the watch, on the Mac, which  
>I see so little of! 

On the bright side for NeXT, at least you said one thing that NeXT does better!
:-)
 RWW.
-- 
Robert W. "What!?! I've-been-tying-my-shoelaces-backwards-all-my-life?" Wong Jr.
wrob@unixg.ubc.ca (ASCII only)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
From: kaya@world.std.com (Kaya Bekiroglu)
Subject: Re: Mac dead?
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 14:40:50 GMT

In article <1jr8jpINNqa3@pith.uoregon.edu> rtaylor@cie.uoregon.edu (Russ Taylor) writes:
>Ray Terry (rterry@hpcupt1.cup.hp.com) wrote:
>: >No kidding.  All I wanted to do was insert a Quicktime movie of
>: >my gyrating navel instead of that old "Welcome to Macintosh" line.
>: >Machine crashed. 
>: >
>: >Kaya Bekiroglu - "Don't mind him, he's just crazy"
>: >kaya@world.std.com
>: 
>: Care to post that movie to the net?  :)

[SLAP!]

>: 
>: Ray
>
>Unlike NeXT (grin) this is a simple process:
>
>1) Drag Quicktime to system folder (probably already done)
>2) Get a Quicktime movie (the hardest step)

Oh, you have no idea. :)

>3) Name the movie Startup Movie
>4) drop it in system folder
>
>Easy?
>You bet.

Yes, it is.  Hmmm... if I rename Microsoft Word to Startup Movie
and place it in the system folder, I could finally put my navel
to rest.

>
>Hit space bar if you get sick of the movie, btw.

Oh, no... I don't think so.  Not my movie.
>
>Query for NeXT fans:  why would I WANT to write my own word processor?
>Christ, if it can't do tables, I won't touch it.

Especially with Distributed Objects in NS 3.0, since it won't be
worthwhile since you can just write the code for the tables and poof.
Can't claim I've ever used DO's though.
>--
>************************************************************************
>* "Remember, you're not losing an empire game, you're gaining a life." *
>*  Russ Taylor/Brennan the Protector rtaylor@cie @honors .uoregon.edu  *
>************************************************************************


-- 
Kaya Bekiroglu - "Don't mind him, he's just crazy"
kaya@world.std.com
[If you're looking for something witty and amusing here, then
congratulations, you've just found it]
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
From: kaya@world.std.com (Kaya Bekiroglu)
Subject: Re: Need to convince boss 486's are *not* w
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 00:23:41 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.234235.3441@unlv.edu> edcrwfrd@unlv.edu (Edward Crawford) writes:
>In article <1993Jan21.203022.9646@qb.rhein-main.de> vhs@rhein-main.de writes:
>>In article <z1h3lbb@rpi.edu> johnsd2@jec315.its.rpi.edu.its1 (Daniel Norman  
>>Johnson) writes:
>>
>>[a lot of NeXT bashing deleted]
>>
>>Interesting to note what your organisation line shows:
>>
>>>Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
>>
>>I knew Sun was afraid of NeXT but I didn't know they would bash
>>NeXT on usenet (especially without a disclaimer).
>
>Oh please. Just because there is no disclaimer doesnt mean he is
>that company. Disclaimers are a blight on this world. Its a
>shame people cant use their head and realize just because someone
>posts from someplace they are that place.


What are we to assume, then?  By default if nothing else, a person
is from the place where his posts come from until found otherwise.

>
>
>


-- 
Kaya Bekiroglu - "Don't mind him, he's just crazy"
kaya@world.std.com
[If you're looking for something witty and amusing here, then
congratulations, you've just found it]
From: jkalanuk@bbs.draco.bison.mb.ca (Jeremy Kalanuk)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Need to convince boss 486's are *not* way to go...
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 01:47:53 GMT
Organization: The Draco Unix System [BBS]

In a message written on Wed, 20 Jan 1993 23:49:11 GMT, howard@netcom.com 
(Howard Berkey) writes:

Try developing software in a |good| UNIX environment.  Use other GUI's
not just Sys7.  (Which is an adequate GUI.)  Try to escape Mac-centric
thinking.  Since Jobs left, it's becoming "The computer for the rest
of THEM".  Look at the computing world as a whole, not just the tiny
niche apple has.
 
Doing the above will secure the future of Apple... you can bet they
are doing it.  Either do it yourself, or get swept away like the
Amigoids.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I seen the perfect response to your message earlier, and it was "The 
whole world aren't programmers."  Very, Very true.  I do program for the 
mac however, not commercially but just small things for myself and 
firends.  I love the Macintosh, and it's versitility, and I will admit 
that NeXT does have a nitch where UNIX is required, but besides that, I 
believe the mac is the better computer.  The world does not run UNIX 
(although most of it does :)  ), because the entire world does not 
require UNIX.  I have used the NeXT's GUI, and I like the Macs better.  I 
know numerous people who work with NeXT's, sell NeXT's etc, and they 
prefer comming home to their mac at nihgt.  As time goes on, personal 
compuers are becomming more and more subjective to the person choosing 
them, almost like art.  In my opinion, with the whole home user/business 
user (the majority of the market) not programming, or requiring UNIX, the 
Mac is the way to go.  ( In my humble opinion of course ).  I am not 
saying that Amigas have nothing to offer, as they do especially in the 
way of NTSC video, but I still prefer my Mac.  ON the other hand, some PC 
users like their PC's more than my Mac, and some Amiga users like their 
more than my Mac, so once again I say that in MY opinion, Macs are thw 
way to go.


---
jkalanuk@bbs.draco.bison.mb.ca (Jeremy Kalanuk)
The Draco Unix System [BBS]
From: ibhan@husc8.harvard.edu (Ishir Bhan)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Mac vs NeXT was Re: Need to convince boss 486's are *not* w
Date: 24 Jan 93 05:02:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc.ibhan.727851720
Distribution: na

In <1993Jan22.193559.21788@athena.mit.edu> zmonster@athena.mit.edu (Eric M Hermanson) writes:

>In article <1993Jan22.153449.19374@nmsu.edu> bgrubb@dante.nmsu.edu (GRUBB) writes:

>The LIST price for a NeXTSTATION Turbo with 8megs of memory and 250 MB hard
>drive is only $5995 (street is much cheaper) AND if you are a developer
>you own the rights to the full suite of NeXT development tools, so what
>is your point?

>For a Quadra to even begin competing with a NeXT computer you need to add
>A/UX ($700), C, C++, and Objective C compilers ($1000), Digital Signal 
>Processing Board for CD Quality 44 kHz sound ($500-1000), Development Tools
>like Serius Developer (which by the way pales in comparison to NeXT's 
>Interface Builder) $600, Multimedia Mail application ($200?), On line
>Webster's Complete Ninth Collegiate Dicionary and Thesauraus (not available
>for Mac), Postscript Level II built in, Pixars Photo Realisitc and Interactive
>Renderman (bundled with NeXTSTEP) $2000.  Can I stop yet?

Most people don't even need these things.  If NeXT has extras, that's all
great, but you can't factor them into the price if people don't want them.
 Also, I've seen A/UX for under $700 list.  The NeXT Station Turbo you
quoted doesn't have color capabilities like the Quadra.

>Whatever happens, NeXTSTEP will run on the  486, 586, and Motorola 680x0 line.

The only 680X0 I've seen NeXTStep running on are NeXT Computers.  Not a
particularly wide base there.  Also, '486 is fine, but I have yet to see a
Pentium, let alone NeXTStep running on one.

-- 
******************************************************************************
Ishir Bhan               * "Every day they take one more set away...."
ibhan@husc.harvard.edu   *                   -The Cure, "Forever"
******************************************************************************
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
From: zmonster@athena.mit.edu (Eric M Hermanson)
Subject: Re: rtaylor@cie.uoregon.edu (Russ Taylor)
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 19:12:38 GMT

In article <aggie-200193204326@wealthy.ocean.fsu.edu> aggie@wealthy.ocean.fsu.edu (I R A Aggie) writes:
>In article <1993Jan20.205213.8189@rchland.ibm.com>,
>tmaas@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (Anthony Maas) wrote:
>> 
>> In article <ocaoXB1w165w@bbs.draco.bison.mb.ca>, jkalanuk@bbs.draco.bison.mb.ca (Jeremy Kalanuk) writes:
>> |> 
>> |> I've use a couple nexts, and I wasn't very impressed.  The speed is 
>> |> nothing compared to a Quadra because of the overhead of the NeXT os.  The 
>> |> interface is annoying, as well as the two button mouse.  There is nowhere 
>>                                          *****************
>> 
>> Two buttons too complicated?
>
>No, the second is usually redundant. How many app's actually use
>the second one?? And then there's the X window's apps. How do they
>map *three* buttons into two? [I don't know, we don't have any
>X stuff on our NeXTs]
>
>James

First of all, if configured in Preferences, the second button on the NeXT
mouse will pop up the main menu of the program you are currently using.  This
is very useful in that you do not need to physically move the mouse to the
menu, you can just hit the second button and then have the menu pop up
anywhere on the screen.  NeXT's use of VERTICAL menu's instead of HORIZONTAL
menus makes this cool feature possible.  NeXT's menu system is very efficient
and compact, the way it should be.

Secondly, if an application requires a third mouse button (like X-windows
applications), then holding down both NeXT mouse buttons at the same
duplicates a third button.  This is not possible on the new one button
Mac mouses (which are utterly useless).

Eric