HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: frisinv@alleg.edu
Subject: Re: Names, Trademarks, alien lifeforms, big macs, this guy named Bob......
Organization: Allegheny College
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 19:59:47 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.195253.24478@pellns.alleg.edu> frisinv@alleg.edu  
writes:
>   I would like to use that pop culture icon in a sci-fi story, but I  
don't  
> wish to be sued. Do I need some sort of written permission? In case it  
> makes any difference, they are not portrayed in the best light. They  
make  
> hamburgers out of an intellegent lifeform which earthfolk are at war  
with. 
>    For all you sci-fi writers out there, what is the status of using  
> aliens which are believed to exist (ie Greys) as characters?

Forgot to mention, that pop icon is McDonald's

Vincent
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: jpl@lyra.Stanford.EDU (Jonathan Lavigne)
Subject: Re: Bread Loaf?
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Date:  6 Oct 92 04:39:44 GMT

rmr@sgi.com (Robert M. Reimann) writes:

>In article <ld11a5INN64c@appserv.Eng.Sun.COM> kabir@kabir.Eng.Sun.COM writes:

>>I saw a reference to "Bread Loaf" in a Gore Vidal essay about
>>F. Scott Fitzgerald - it implied one went there to become a
>>writer.
>>
>>What is Bread Loaf?

>It's a large and well-respected writer's 
>conferenece/workshop held annually in New 
>England (does anyone remember where and
>for how long?)

The Bread Loaf Writer's Conference is held in August at Middlebury College in
Vermont. It's been a long time since I attended some lectures there, so I do
know how long it lasts.   
Jonathan Lavigne           BL.JPL@RLG.STANFORD.EDU
Reseach Libraries Group/Stanford University

Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: cgates@mitre.org (Curt Gates)
Subject: Re: Need software for brainstorming and problem solving.
Organization: The MITRE Corporation
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 17:17:15 GMT

In article <1992Sep25.211218.7985@igor.tamri.com> viviana@igor.tamri.com 
(Vivian Aldridge) writes:
> Esentially, I'm looking for software to help me come up
> with ideas for product development and also creative
> writing.
> 
> The software I really liked is called IDEAFISHER, but it is about
> $700!! I'm looking to spend $70-$200.

This is one thing you dont need software for.  Get a copy of Writing the 
Natural Way by Gabriele Rico and save youself a few hundred dollars.  
Instead of learning how to use a new software application, spend the time 
actually doing the exercises she describes.  If you are like most people, 
you wont do it, primarily because it is so easy you wont believe it works. 
After dismissing it, you will probably continue on in search of some 
magic tool (software) to free up the creative flow.  With that prediction 
out of the way with....  

Gabriele s book is no substitute for one of her workshops, but you can still 
learn how to use clustering for creative writing and for mapping out 
projects like the ones you describe.  A related book, called Information 
Mapping, (published in England) takes a similar approach, with the 
emphasis on learning and education.  This is not the Information Mapping 
of Dr. Horn, who started a company by the same name.  

Brainstorming might be more productive if you use a group of people and do 
brainstorming properly -- which includes reserving all analysis and 
criticism until the session is finished.  There are other techniques for 
ranking or sorting a list of ideas that come  from a brainstorming 
session, and I can mail you a guide for doing that if you want.  Again, these 
techniques are effective, easy-to-use tools, but for them to do you any 
good, you have to use them. 

************************************
I worked as a technical writer ... editing manuals ... on how to dispose 
of sewage in permafrost; we all had to wear white shirts -- that was 
mandatory -- and I was fired at the end of two weeks for spending too much 
time staring out the window.  
(Edward Abbey)
************************************ 
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: sasafw@dobo.unx.sas.com (Fred Welden)
Subject: Re: Semantics of "to be"
Originator: sasafw@dobo.unx.sas.com
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 20:07:25 GMT
Organization: Dobonia
Keywords: Tab E or not Tab E -- that is the ????


In article <1992Oct1.135451.13758@nocusuhs.nnmc.navy.mil>, yoshi@nocusuhs.nnmc.navy.mil (D M Yoshikami) writes:
|The Map is not the territory.
|You can fold up the map, but not the territory.

Tell that to my daughter.  The first time we took her to a restaurant,
she tried to eat the menu.

|Perhaps the best way to get rid of overusing "is" would entail reading much
|good writing, and perhaps imitating the style.  People continually rediscover
|the same basic principles.  Read the sentences you write -- you should
|carefully look at what you just write and ask yourself: "Does this sentence
|REALLY reflect what I want to say?"  You may have to write "one word at a
|time" instead of "one sentence at a time".  You'll get rid of a number of
|overused "to be's" as well as a lot of other garbage which is WORSE!
|Expressing thoughts concisely can be arduous work; but it has many rewards too.

Watch out for this word by word stuff.  Taken the wrong way it can lead
to galloping deconstructionism, which leads nowhere fast.  What you want
to do, in my arrogant opinion, is to splat down what you think you want
to say on the page as close to all-at-once as you can manage.  Then go
back and read it carefully to see if anything seems to contradict the
sense of what you were trying to say, or to lead off to undesireable
tangents, and fix those things by splatting down something on top of
them and then repeating the review process.  This is easiest with an 
electronic word processor, which I have a tendency to use pretty much 
like an electronic food processor.  (This probably explains why my
daughter tried to eat the menu, come to think of it.)

Of course, none of you out there in netland have ever read my fiction,
so you have no idea what the results of this method look like.
Take it with as much salt as you like. 
-- 
--Fred, or another blind 8th-century BC  |  sasafw@dobo.unx.sas.com
        Hellenic poet of the same name.  |
From: yoshi@nocusuhs.nnmc.navy.mil (D M Yoshikami)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: Semantics of "to be"
Date: 5 Oct 92 12:01:13 GMT
Organization: National Naval Medical Center

In article <LIGHTNIN.92Oct1221546@pitt.WPI.EDU> lightnin@pitt.WPI.EDU (Paraaaaaaaaade of Shoooooooooes) writes:
>>>>>> On 1 Oct 92 20:07:25 GMT, sasafw@dobo.unx.sas.com (Fred Welden) said:
>
>FW> Watch out for this word by word stuff.  Taken the wrong way it can
>FW> lead to galloping deconstructionism, which leads nowhere fast.
>FW> What you want to do, in my arrogant opinion, is to splat down what
>FW> you think you want to say on the page as close to all-at-once as
>FW> you can manage.  Then go back and read it carefully to see if
>FW> anything seems to contradict the sense of what you were trying to
>FW> say, or to lead off to undesireable tangents, and fix those things
>FW> by splatting down something on top of them and then repeating the
>FW> review process.
>
>I have to agree with this.  When I write a story, I try and get the whole
>thing down as quickly as possible, and as briefly as possible.  Usually it
>takes the format of Tim does this and this and this, while Lisa is doing this
>and this.  Then Tim and Lisa get together and do thus and such, and so on,
>end of story.  Then I revise the hell out of it.  I take individual scenes


Hmm.  Looks like I forgot to put a bit of an explanation behind the
word-by word.  This came from a writing course that I had to take
where I had a teacher who tore up everything I wrote.  The idea behind
going word for word is to sensitize the student to the words he
writes.  As Fred Welden observed, this can lead to deconstructionism,
which, as Allen Bloom said, is the final brainchild of philosophy in
an attempt to overthrow reason [Or something equally vitriolic].
Going word-for-word is far too slow to do for more than a couple
exercises or a small paper, and once you're sensitive anyways, you'd
do something closer to what Fred does.

This kind of exercise is more for the youngster or someone who hasn't
noticed the words he's using than for the writer who has some experience
and doesn't need these kinds of crutches.  Anyone with common sense
wouldn't bother doing this for very long as it's too time consuming, but
alas, common sense is none to common these days.  I'd better watch out.  :-)

DY :-)

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
D M Yoshikami  :-) ;-) :-) | Internet: yoshikami@usuhsb.ucc.usuhs.nnmc.navy.mil
     +1 (301) 295-3304     | Bitnet  : yoshikami@usuhsb.bitnet
***  !!xob X*NU V METSYS T&TA eht ni renosirp dleh gnieb m`I  !pleH  !pleH  ***
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
From: bf455@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Bonita Kale)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: The right place to ask this question?
Date: 29 Sep 1992 10:53:39 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc10.ins.cwru.edu




In a previous article, elana@agora.rain.com (Elana Beach) says:
>   ------------
>...
>   It looks like I may be writing, editing AND desktop-publishing
>   someone's one-issue 'zine soon. 
>...

>     I don't
>     know if $200 would be too much or if $2000 would be too little! 
>     How do I set the fee for my services?  What are the professional
>     criteria which should I consider in the price that I charge?  
>     And what other unknown factors should I be considering here?
>     -------------
>      
>      The MOST IMPORTANT factor I want to know: 
>      Have I been directed to the right place to ask this type of
>      question?


A.  This is probably the right place.  I hope some others can give better
help than I can. 

B.  There is, for what it's worth, an article called "How Much Should I
Charge?" by Jenny Pfalzgraf in the 1993 _Writer's Market_ (ask for it in
your library; if they don't have '93, they'll probably have '92, and it
might have a similar article.  And Waldenbooks carries it.)

It's basically a short discussion of how to set rates in unfamiliar
territory, plus a long list of possible reasonable charges.  Mentions
desktop publishing, newsletters.  Might be of some help.

Bonita Kale
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: Caught in the net
From: derek@nezsdc.icl.co.nz (Derek Tearne)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 92 02:10:40 GMT
Organization: Fujitsu New Zealand

In article <1992Sep24.031903.91555@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> tf01@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (TIMOTHY FALCONER) writes:
>Regarding netting being a diversion from "real" writing:
>
>It's the same old complaint about writing letters.  When you're wasting time
>corresponding, you're not using it for the "real" thing.
>

The net can also be a place where one can try out styles etc.  Posting to
any group allows one to learn very quickly (and often painfully) how to
be concise without ambiguity.  If you post something which is unclear 
people may question by followup or e-mail.  If you post something which can 
be taken several ways you may be flamed unnecessarily.  An inflammatory
statement will get the obvious response.

These days it may not be so easy to get a job in journalism and hone your
skills that way.  Sharpen them in the cut-throat world of the net and you
get instant feedback on how effective or popular a style or concept is.

>I like netting sometimes to warm up for my other writing.  It's a good way to
>get ideas flowing.  And besides that, where else can you get the quick and
>satisfying kind of textual feedback that we require?

Yes,  and a good way to research new topics or unfamiliar areas.

-- 
Derek Tearne. -- derek@nezsdc.icl.co.nz --  Fujitsu/ICL New Zealand -- 
Some of the more aware dinosaurs were worried about the environmental
consequences of an accident with the new Iridium enriched fusion reactor.  
"If it goes off only the cockroaches and mammals will survive..." they said.
From: kabir@kabir.Eng.Sun.COM (Ihtisham Kabir)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Bread Loaf?
Date: 5 Oct 92 18:11:17 GMT
Reply-To: kabir@kabir.Eng.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems
NNTP-Posting-Host: kabir

I saw a reference to "Bread Loaf" in a Gore Vidal essay about
F. Scott Fitzgerald - it implied one went there to become a
writer.

What is Bread Loaf?

- Ihtisham Kabir
kabir@sun.com
From: bf455@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Bonita Kale)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: any screenwriters out
Date: 29 Sep 1992 10:33:51 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc10.ins.cwru.edu




In a previous article, jas@ISI.EDU (Jeff Sullivan) says:

>In article <1992Sep25.2168.2944@dosgate> glenn.devlin@canrem.com (glenn devlin) writes:

...

>>I evny you for being able to meet and pitch. 
>
>Don't.  It's a bloody, painful process.  I'd give anything to be able
>to avoid it, but it's a necessary part of the biz at this point in my
>fledgling career.


It sounds intolerable.  Are you naturally good at talking to people?  Did
you win prizes for selling the most Boy Scout peanut brittle as a child? 
What's it like, pitching ideas?  Do you have to try to sound enthusiastic? 
(I don't mean you aren't enthusiastic about your ideas, but you obviously
aren't about doing the pitching, and I'd think that would come through.) 
Wouldn't you think the people you pitch to (who are they?) would get so
sick of it, they'd welcome a nice, quick presentation on paper that they
could read at their leisure?

Anyway, if you care to post a report from the combat zone, I, for one,
would be very interested. 

Bonita Kale
From: fredh@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (laviathen)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Question: Have you heard
Date: 28 Sep 1992 17:51:17 -0500
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: matt.ksu.ksu.edu
Summary: Question: Have

Hello,
	I'm writing a book at the moment.  The title, I have been told,
has already been used.  The thing is, I can't find it in any of the 
libraries I have around here.  Could anyone tell me if there is a
book entitled "And the Children Shall Answer".  Please answer by E-mail.

Thanks in advance.

Danielle (Using a friends account) 
-- 
Sir Frederick the Hunted "All hail the Porcelain King"
Minds are like parachutes. They only function when open!

fredh@matt.ksu.ksu.edu
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: "glenn devlin" <glenn.devlin@canrem.com>
Subject: formatting screenplay
Reply-To: "glenn devlin" <glenn.devlin@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: misc
Date: 29 Sep 92 19:08:10 EST

JS>My personal advice: unless you're writing sitcom format, don't use
JS>dialog breaks at all.  Keep all dialog together.  The vast majority of
JS>modern feature scripts I've seen do not use dialog breaks.

JS>I myself don't use them, and I've never lost a sale because of it. ;-)

>I wanted to do screenplays in WordPerfect, but the shot numbers got me
>stumped.  I could get increasing numbers with a numbered list.  What I

JS>Well, today's your lucky day.  You don't need shot numbers.  In fact,
JS>you shouldn't be using them.  They're for shooting scripts.  Putting
JS>them in your scripts prior to this stage is the mark of an ameteur.

JS>The LAST thing you want is to look like an ameteur, because readers
JS>are looking for every reason in the world to say no to your script.
JS>Give them as few as possible.

 Mr. Sullivan is quite right. I did a script for the Nissan Focus
Screenwriting Competition and wrote the fantasy/horror "Wrath of the
Dragon." of whic I recieved nominations and made the top 13 out of a
possible 450. Quite an achievement for a deaf writer like me.
 And it was my first script and I used shot numbers. They must
have liked the idea to ignore the shot numbers. As of right now, I almost
NEVER use CAMERA ANGLES, CUT TO:, etc. Just stick to telling the
story.

 Cheers! Glenn
---
  DeLuxe 1.12 #9662  If you can't beat around Bush, flush out Quayle
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
From: miuvdd@lure.latrobe.edu.au
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: Novel or Play??
Date: 27 Sep 92 22:47:49 GMT
Organization: VAX Cluster, Computer Centre, La Trobe University

In article <1992Sep27.013709.6409@news.yale.edu>, Jonathan_B_Bellack@yccatsmtp.ycc.yale.edu (Jonathan Bellack) writes:
> In article <sbb1.717534371@Ra.MsState.Edu>, sbb1@Ra.MsState.Edu (Shay B. Berthelson) writes:
>> 
>> Hi I have been working on writing a novel.  But my writing could almost
>> lean towards the scripting and dialogue of a play.  I really like theatre
>> and wouldn't mind writing a play.  Should I ditch the book and go for 
>> the stage?  The problem with changing, it would take much revision to 
>> break the setting down to just a couple of locations.  
>> 
>> Shay B.
>> 


Why not try both and see where this leads you?  Who says that you have to
make a decision right away.

If you decide to go with the play, the novel has give you quite a detailed
synopsis; and if you decide to go for the novel, then you have certainly
fleshed out your character's dialogue through the play.:)

Actually, this is not as silly as it seems.  As dialogue is not my
one of my strongest points, I often sit down and "talk" to my characters,
as if I had jsut met them; or as if I was another charcter with whom I
want them to interact (writing it down as I go).  I find that it really
helps me not only refine dialogue, but I get to know my characters a
little better.

Hey, aren't all writers crazy anyway? :)

Hope this helps,

Morgana
From: Alan_Barclay@mindlink.bc.ca (Alan Barclay)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Teaching writing
Date: 29 Sep 92 08:10:30 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

In message #4504457 Bonita Kale quotes Tom Maddox:

"In a previous article, tmaddox@netcom.com (Tom Maddox) says:
>
>       Yeah, well, that may or may not be true, but I'm still more inclined to
>listen to advice about writing from someone whose writing I have read and
>admire than from someone whose writing about writing is the only thing I have
>to go on.

"This sounds reasonable, but in practice, I have not found that the advice
of those whose fiction writing I enjoy is always, or even usually, more
helpful than that of those whose fiction I haven't read or don't enjoy."

Some excellent writers seem to have an implicit understanding of what
makes good writing, but are unable to isolate what it is they know, nor
to make it clear to others.  This sort of knowledge seems magical to me.
I myself must understand a technique or concept well enough to teach it,
before I can actually use it well.  I find the difference fascinating.



Alan


Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: sasafw@dobo.unx.sas.com (Fred Welden)
Subject: Re: Semantics of "to be"
Originator: sasafw@dobo.unx.sas.com
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 14:00:01 GMT
Organization: Dobonia


In article <16047@mindlink.bc.ca>, Alan_Barclay@mindlink.bc.ca (Alan Barclay) writes:
|"There was a cat on the table"
|
|vs.
|
|"The cat sprawled on the table."
|
|Notice that the first sentence is passive and the second, active.  "Was" is
|an element in many passive constructions.  For that reason alone, hunting and
|rewriting is a good idea.  (P.S. could I write this paragraph without using
|"is?" :) )

Just to pick a nit or two, the first sentence may suffer from vagueness
and the lack of a decent subject, but it does not use the passive 
voice.  Let's not confuse "passive" in the grammatical sense with mere
flabbiness of the prose.  The sentence would be less flabby if it read

"The cat was on the table."

Verb-to-be sentences often have the problem that they lack information.
The reader may conclude from your construction or mine that the cat lies
there like a sack of potatoes or crouches there poised to spring.
Context may well supply the correct interpretation, and a blanket
injunction against sentences like this one leads eventually to the
grade-school writing exercise style where every noun has a couple of
adjectives and every verb gets an adverb, willy-nilly.

"The big grey cat lay quietly on the wide wooden table.  The sad little
boy quietly opened the big wooden door to the long dark dining room." et
cetera.

My conclusion?  A writer needs to have a better ear for paragraphs that
work than his readers have.  That way he stays one step ahead of their
expectations, and holds their interest.  No set of rules about
constructions to avoid or to favor can hope to replace a good ear.

Where would Orwell have found himself without the verb to be?

"It was a cold day in April and the clocks were striking thirteen. . . ."

========================================================================
[BTW, notice any forms of to-be (outside quotes) in this?]

-- 
--Fred, or another blind 8th-century BC  |  sasafw@dobo.unx.sas.com
        Hellenic poet of the same name.  |
From: Crawford_Kilian@mindlink.bc.ca (Crawford Kilian)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Work in Progress
Date: 5 Oct 92 15:21:45 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

I'm now a little way into Redmagic's first chapter; I can begin to see my
heroine's little town of Burnbaile, and she's acquiring a family, a past and
a culture. It's a lovely end-of-summer afternoon, the candleboats are about
to go into the bay, and the bad guys (now called Exteca or Blood People) are
about to take over with a display of redmagic that my heroine Deir will
mysteriously evade. Doesn't look too bad; but 800 words since Oct. 1 is much
too slow a rate!
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: guay@fraser.sfu.ca (Tim Guay)
Subject: Canadian Booksellers Assn
Summary: Info on Canadian Booksellers Assn
Keywords: Canadian Booksellers Assn
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Distribution: ca
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 13:31:12 GMT

Hi; I'm looking for info on the Canadian Booksellers Assn. Such as
Its history.
Its role in the publishing industry
Prizes and grants it offers.
Lobbying efforts ie. anti-GST
Anything else you can think of?

Thanks...
From: Alan_Barclay@mindlink.bc.ca (Alan Barclay)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: Work in Progress
Date: 29 Sep 92 08:07:45 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

#4507835 from Elizabeth Willey

"I thought everybody wrote two to
three times as much as would fit in the finished book."

You're joking, right?



Alan
From: jkearman@arrl.org (Jim Kearman)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: SUBSCRIBE, PLEASE
Date: 24 Sep 92 14:24:07 EDT
Organization: American Radio Relay League

SUBSCRIBE
Newsgroups: misc.writing