HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: klinger@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Jorg Klinger)
Subject: Re: Know someone at Triumph or Norton???
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 20:47:48 GMT



Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,rec.motorcycles
Subject: Re: Know someone at Triumph or Norton???
Distribution: world

In <28hx024m25XB01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> czw70@ccc.amdahl.com (CA Whitfield) writes:

>In article <1992Oct6.182924.2090@ccu.umanitoba.ca>, klinger@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Jorg Klinger) writes:
>>> In <SES.92Oct6115651@cmns-sun.think.com> ses@cmns-sun.think.com (Simon Edward Spero) writes:

>and previous Triumph owners.  My own personal feelings are that any
>British marque building modern, quality bikes in quantity and selling
>them to a drooling public is something to be proud of (I was born in 1962
>so this is the first time I've had a local brand to be geniunely impressed
>by).  The clowns who built those decrepit twins in the seventies should,
>perhaps, feel a little luckythat their marque was chosen ;-)
>Bloor's Triumphs (aptly named) are the best thing to happen to the British
>bike industry since the war, and you'd better believe it.  Now, if they'd
>just lop another cylinder off that 900 triple...
>CAW

  I can certainly see where you are coming from. I beleive however that
they could have chosen a more British design and still produced a
modern, competent, and successfull motorbike, one on which the Triumph
logo looks right.
  Whenever I look at Yamahas TDM 850 I wonder what could have been. A
dual overhead cam, four valve per cylinder, liquid cooled motor with
Sinternal balancing stuffed into a lightweight road chassis. Keep the
weight down (400lbs), style it like a modern clubman racer and follow
with a PD version for the adventurous types. I bet they could sell them
to a lot of old Triumph riders who loved the kind of balance that the
Bonnies had. I doubt if Triumph would ever have made a twin as heavy as
the TDM.

__
   Jorg Klinger            |       GSXR1100        | If you only new who
   Arch. & Eng. Services   |          **           | I think I am. 
   UManitoba, Man. Ca.     |"The Embalmer" - IT175 |           - anonymous
From: livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Free Trade (was Re: Currency Problems)\
Date: 13 Oct 92 23:52:29 GMT
Organization: sgi
NNTP-Posting-Host: solntze.wpd.sgi.com

In article <1992Oct7.151845.9329@vax.oxford.ac.uk>, wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk writes:
|> In article <1992Oct6.073300.23993@osf.org>, sp@osf.org (Simon Patience) writes:
|> > In article <1992Oct5.114848.9209@vax.oxford.ac.uk>, wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk writes:
|> >> What the Economist may well have said is that it costs less to buy coal from
|> >> Virginia than from Selby. In terms of cash, maybe, but certainly not in terms
|> >> of pollution. 
|> > 
|> > Would you care to justify this statement?
|> > 
|> > Simon
|> > 
|> Certainly. Virginia is in the USA. To get coal from Virginia to the UK involves
|> burning fuel of whatever type it is that heavy container ships use for a week
|> or two. 

But now you're only talking about transport, and the pollution it
causes.   Obtaining deep mined coal requires much more energy
expenditure than getting open-cast coal - that's one reason why
deep-mined coal is more expensive - and generating that power
causes pollution.    If you want to compare the pollution cost
of different types of coal, you have to compare all the pollution
cost, not just the pollution cost of transport.

jon.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.british:14226 alt.politics.british:289 soc.culture.celtic:6853
From: cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Chris Cooke)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,alt.politics.british,soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Is there any need for that struggle(Re: Irish Rejects Associated (IRA))
Date: 16 Oct 92 12:02:55 GMT
	<1992Oct14.073008.12777@rz.uni-karlsruhe.de>
	<1992Oct15.141311.2320@dcs.qmw.ac.uk> <1992Oct15.152742.594@cs.tcd.ie>
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Edinburgh, Scotland

In article <1992Oct15.152742.594@cs.tcd.ie> riordanm@cs.tcd.ie (Mark Riordan) writes:

   In article <1992Oct15.141311.2320@dcs.qmw.ac.uk> mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach) writes:
   >
   >Well, there is no divorce or abortion in the Republic of
   >Ireland, people have the Gaelic language forced down their
   >throat at school, there is no honour paid to Mrs. Elizabeth
   >Windsor, etc, etc. Little things, maybe, but they are what
   >culture is all about.
   >
   There are also many differences which are in Ireland's favour
   which might have been mentioned in a more balanced posting.

Sure there are, but Matthew was giving the differences which are relevant to
Northern Ireland people NOT wanting unification.

I'm sure Ireland does plenty of things better, electoral systems for one.
--
	-- Chris. 	cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk   (on Janet, cc@uk.ac.ed.dcs)

		
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: godfrey@sscvx1.ssc.gov (LAURENCE GODFREY)
Subject: Re: Salaries
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Organization: Superconducting Super Collider Laboratory
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 01:25:00 GMT

In article <1992Oct12.232336.12072@nuscc.nus.sg>, hiscrp@nuscc.nus.sg (C R Pennell)         writes...
> 
>Question:
>	Assume a basic salary of 17,000 pounds a year. Before tax.
>	Assume that there is sufficient capital to buy house without
>having to take out a mortgage.
>	Is the salary enough to live on in S.W. England (husband, wife
>two small children)?
>	What do people think (restrain yourself, Laurence)?
> 
>Richard Pennell, History, NUS
> 

I can't.  It is not enough.  The net salary after tax would be around 
13,000 pa, or about 36 pounds per day.  Now poll taxes (or whatever it
is called next year) would consume about 2 pounds of that, house, car
etc insurances anouther 2 pounds of that, food would consume around
10 pounds of that for two adults and two children, fares would conume
around 5 pounds of that, clothes around 4 pounds, car tax, TC licence,
parking permits another 1 pound, elec, gas, heating oil etc around 
2 pounds, telephone around 2 pounds, furniture wear and tear around 
2 pounds, house decorating and improvements around 2 pounds.  That
leaves 4 quid per day for entertainment, books, newspapers, car depreciation, 
holidays, outings, gifts, special occasions etc - nowhere near enough.

I calculte you would need a net income of around 50 pounds per day for
a family of four, if you were lucky enough to have no mortgage or rent,
and you wouldn't live at all well on that.  That means a gross income
of around 23000 (I haven't got my calculator at hand, it's approximate).
30,000 with a mortgage gives a reasonable standard of living by US
standards, or that of more civilised countries than the UK.

Is that restrained enough for you?

Of course I am talking about what is needed, which is a far cry from what
people here actually have to try to survive on.

Laurence

Xref: sparky soc.culture.british:14170 alt.politics.british:282 soc.culture.celtic:6812
From: mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,alt.politics.british,soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Is there any need for that struggle(Re: Irish Rejects Associated (IRA))
Date: 15 Oct 92 14:13:11 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept, QMW, University of London, UK.

From: bosch@rz.uni-karlsruhe.de (Gerhard Bosch)
>I assume that the people are not very religious, the protestants and the
>catholics. Just go the a service on Sunday morning a you will see in most
>countries empty churches. I guess that a century ago, there was still trouble
>having the wrong religion, but today the people should be more tolerant.
>Already the Pope started talking with the protestants. I don't think these
>differences in Religion are very relevant.

Church attendance is very high in Northern Ireland, and many of
the Protestants are of the extremist sort who believe the Pope
to be the anti-Christ, not the sort who would sit down for
ecumenical discussions with Catholics. However the conflict is
not just about religion. It is a conflict between two different
groups with different cultural backgrounds and historical
identities. It happens that the group which looks to Britain
for its identity is almost entirely Protestant in its religion,
while the group that looks to the Republic of Ireland is almost
entirely Catholic. If it were not religion, it would be
something else. Look, for example, at Belgium. There the two
groups are both Catholic, but one speaks French and the other
Dutch, so they fight over language. The problem with Ireland is
that you can't draw a neat line between the two groups as you
can in Belgium. As the population figure given in another
message show, there is not one district which is more than 80%
of eitehr one or the other community.

>On the other hand is my life much different, if I'm a citizen of Ireland or
>a citizen of the UK ? I can't make out any differences.

Well, there is no divorce or abortion in the Republic of
Ireland, people have the Gaelic language forced down their
throat at school, there is no honour paid to Mrs. Elizabeth
Windsor, etc, etc. Little things, maybe, but they are what
culture is all about.

>I hope to be able to start a new discussion.

Well, you might restart a very old discussion.

Matthew Huntbach
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,alt.politics.british,soc.culture.celtic
From: georgere@microsoft.com (George V. Reilly)
Subject: Re: Is there any need for that struggle
Date: 17 Oct 92 00:30:43 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

ag129@cus.cam.ac.uk (Alasdair Grant) writes:
) Is it still true that doing a, say, physics exam in Irish gets automatically
) 10% more marks than doing it in English?  I read a book by Frank Delaney
) which said this, maybe it has stopped now.  I imagine while it lasted it
) must have had bad effects on the school life and subsequent careers of many
) immigrants to Ireland, for whom English might already have been a foreign
) language.

An extra 10% of the final grade (as distinct from a flat extra
10%) is added if the exam is taken in Irish.  Children who join
the Irish school system after the age of 12 are not required to
learn Irish.

) By the way, what language is used to study the work of Burke, Wilde, 
) Shaw, Yeats, Joyce, and Beckett in Ireland?  Can one (if one wants) do
) "Finnegans Wake" in translation?

Whatever language their works were written in, i.e., almost
always English for these authors.  "Finnegans Wake" would only
be encountered in a university English course, and would be
taught in English.  It's almost impossible to find Irish
translations of works written in English or other languages.
________________
George V. Reilly   <GeorgeRe@Microsoft.Com>
From: sch@getafix (Simon Hamner)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Edinburgh
Date: 8 Oct 92 17:00:57 GMT
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

> 
> 	We have pet rabbits: Cholmondely and Featherstonehaugh, neither
> 	of whom likes Pontefract cakes.
> 
As an aside to this, I lived in Featherstone when I was a nipper, and
Pontefract is about 4 miles away (Both smallish towns in West Yorkshire)

Simon.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
   S.Hanmer  - PADI Open Water Diver                    ___   oo
                                                       (o o) ..    
   Please reply to sch@oasis.icl.co.uk                 ==o          <X
   if you have any problems mailing me.               /     \
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ray@philmtl.philips.ca (Ray Dunn)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Driving in UK.
Date: 11 Oct 92 02:57:23 GMT
Organization: Not Philips.

In refd article, antonson@software.org (Todd S. Antonson) writes:
>I am going to England for a week in November and plan to get a
>rental car.  Does anybody know if I need to get an international
>drivers license and if so, where I get it?  I currently have a
>Virginia (USA) drivers license.

No need for an International driving license.  They are only useful,
marginally, when you're likely to meet a rental agent or cop who
doesn't speak English, and who refuses to accept the validity of your
license.  That's not likely to happen anywhere in western Europe.

I usually rent in Europe with my British licence, but have rented in
Britain, Sweden, Germany and Holland with my Quebec one (which is in
French).

In the US, I have more trouble with the expiration date of my British
license (2020 or something) than with the French on my Quebec one!

Remember what you actually plan to get is a _hire_ car, and don't expect to
get an automatic unless you take a car from a more expensive
classification.
-- 
Ray Dunn at home        |  Beaconsfield, Quebec  |  Phone: (514) 630 3749
ray@philmtl.philips.ca  |  dunn@cam.org          |  uunet!sobeco!philmtl!ray
From: cscdc@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Dan Carpenter)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: The Bloody War in Ireland.
Date: 13 Oct 92 21:04:25 GMT
Organization: Educational Computing Network

Without any personal opinions, -- Just the facts -- or in-depth
analysis, what *is* all the fighting about?

Is it a Religious Apartheid?

Just curious for the facts.

Dan



==============================================================================
C. Daniel Carpenter        A  Midwesterner              cscdc@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
NEVER GIVE UP!  Always remember that the mighty oak was once just a little nut
that held its ground.  
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TODAY, everything is cordless, except newborn babies.
==============================================================================
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: mossop@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Antony Mossop)
Subject: Re: Privatisation snippets
Organization: Stanford Univ. Earth Sciences
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 01:58:39 GMT

In article <26760@castle.ed.ac.uk> fofp@castle.ed.ac.uk (M Holmes) writes:
>mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach) writes:
>
>-From: fofp@castle.ed.ac.uk (M Holmes)
>
>[...sorry, but it is all relevant...]
>
>--However, I'm confused by those people who argue:
>--
>--a) The government shouldn't be selling the shares. I am happy currently
>--being an effective shareholder in nationalised company X.
>--
>--b) They're selling them too cheaply anyway.
>--
>--..the obvious thing for these people to do is to buy some shares,
>--because:
>--
>--a) They'll still be a shareholder as they requested above.
>--
>--b) By their own calculation, they're getting a bargain.
>
>-That's all very well if you have the money to buy them back.
>-Yes, I am sure you will argue that you do have the money in the
>-form of the having to pay less tax. That argument doesn't hold
>-though when the proceeds of privatisation were used only to
>-reduce some people's taxes (the rich of course).
>
>Well, the last tax cut was on the basic rate. And don't forget that
>mortgage tax relief was abolished at the higher rate. Your statement
>just doesn7t hold water here :-)

Be real, cuts in the basic rate of tax gave joe public a couple of
extra quid a week, which got wiped out by increased VAT. Cuts in the
upper tax brackets were worth a lot more than that. Glad to see that
mortgage relief has had its day, tax free loans for wealthy
people to invest was certainly a strange form of state support.

Tony Mossop, geophysics, Stanford
>
>-Matthew Huntbach
>
>FoFP
From: pisa@sabrina.dei.unipd.it (Gianluca Pisanello 308397/IL)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: address needed
Date: 13 Oct 92 16:13:47 GMT
Article-I.D.: dei.Bw2IF0.EF6
Organization: D.E.I. Universita' di Padova, Italia

I'm looking for the internet address of the Brighton University for a friend
of mine (coming from Brighton), who's here with the Erasmus Program.

Send the address via e-mail.

                    Thank you, pisa@sabrina.dei.unipd.it 

******************************************************************************
*  GIANLUCA PISANELLO                                                        *  
*                                                                            *  
*         Via Valdastico, 32                  c/o coll. "STUDIUM"            *
*         36016 Thiene (VI)                   Via Aosta, 6   PADOVA          *  
*         Tel. 0445/363281                    Tel. 049/8757222               *
*                                                                            *
*                     e-mail: pisa@sabrina.dei.unipd.it                      *
******************************************************************************
*                                                                            *
*        "Some day we'll look back on it and it will all seem funny"         *
*                                                                            *
*                                             B.Springsteen   "Rosalita"     *
*                                                                            *
******************************************************************************
From: wendtr@newton.hartwick.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Re: London Penpal
Date: 7 Oct 92 10:58:04 -0500
Organization: HARTWICK COLLEGE

In article <1992Oct5.005717.19408@samba.oit.unc.edu>, Alan.Wigodski@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Alan Wigodski) writes:
> I'm a yank, but I was studying In Britain this summer and Lived in London
> for a month(at the University of London)...
> 
> --
>    The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
>      North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
>         Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
>            internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80

>> Where did (or do) you go to school in the U.S? I'd be interested in any
>>information you might have that would be beneficial to a "Yank" going to 
>>study abroad in London. 
>>Thanks in advance,
>>Rachel
From: mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Currency Problems
Date: 8 Oct 92 14:57:55 GMT
Distribution: soc
Organization: Computer Science Dept, QMW, University of London, UK.

From: fofp@castle.ed.ac.uk (M Holmes)
>Well if folks aren't willing to give charity to these people willingly
>then where's the legitimacy for government to extort the money from them
>to supply this charity against people's wishes? I thought governments
>were elected to do the things that people wanted done?

My point is that once you strip away the accumulation of
insurance agencies, private armies etc, you are left with
something that looks not unlike the state.

>The police are there to solve that sort of problem. Libertarianism does
>not equal anarchy.

Well, the problem is that you are left with a society which is
largely governed by fear. Fear of starvation leads people into
crime, fear of crime leads to the growth of police and private
armies. I think most people don't want to live with that level
of fear, that is why they accept the state.

As to the argument that people would not voluntarily give to
the "Unemployed Yobboes Charity", as I pointed out, fear would
eventually get them to realise why their forefathers set up the
welfare state. The point is, is it really necessary to go
through this? In fact, of course, people in effect did accept
the argument for the welfare state and the necessary
contributions they would have to make when they voted the 1945
government in. If your protest is simply that the electoral
system does not give a wide enough range of choices, and that
the option of showing support for a party which would do away
with the welfare state at a faster rate than the Tories is not
available, I would agree.


>--someone unemployed, might offer to pay the employer a retainer to keep
>--someone employed until a recruiting agency, hired by the insurer, had
>--found alternative employment. It'd depend on the insurer's own
>--calculation of minimum cost, which would pretty much match the equation
>--you are alluding to above.
>
>-Well, I've heard of selling yourself into slavery, but paying
>-an insurance company for the privilege of being sent to the
>-slave market, that's a new one.
>
>A recruiting agency is hardly a "slave market".

In your scenario, the recruiting agency is hired by the
insurers, not by the (un)employee. Furthermore, you tell us
that as soon as the recruiting agency has found this person a
job, the insurers will cut off benefit. So the recruiting
agency can, in effect, put the person up for auction, and as
soon as it finds someone who will make the person work, that's
it, he must do it. In fact the "recruiting agency" could own
its own businesses, and force people to work in them.

Matthew Huntbach
Xref: sparky soc.culture.british:14243 alt.politics.british:295 soc.culture.celtic:6876
From: ulick@liszt.helios.nd.edu (Ulick Stafford)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,alt.politics.british,soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Is there any need for that struggle(Re: Irish Rejects Associated (IRA))
Date: 16 Oct 92 14:20:13 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.1992Oct16.142013.7970
Organization: OUC, University of Notre Dame

In article <CC.92Oct16115511@arran.dcs.ed.ac.uk> cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Chris Cooke) writes:
>
>There is one way - get the people of Northern Ireland to vote against
>Northern Ireland's current status.  So far most of them have been pretty
>happy with it the way it is.

One of the biggest faults with democracy is that in practice it is tyranny
of the majority.  In NI this is worse since the border was specifically 
gerrymandered to perpetuate the oppression of Northern Nationalists.  


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 
+ 'There was a  master come unto the earth, + Ulick Stafford, PP-ASEL       +
+    born in the holy land of Indiana,      + Dept of Chemical Engineering, +
+ in the mystical hills east of Fort Wayne'.+ Notre Dame, IN 46556          +
+      B'fhearr liom bheith ag eitilt.      +    ulick@bach.helios.nd.edu   +
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From: livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Privatisation snippets
Date: 14 Oct 92 23:04:22 GMT
Organization: sgi
NNTP-Posting-Host: solntze.wpd.sgi.com

In article <1992Oct14.220402.15761@menudo.uh.edu>, chem91@Elroy.UH.EDU ("Bill Harrison (713)-743-2789") writes:
|>
|> >Of course, they are not.    The fact of the matter is that    <----
|> >there is no "natural" price for shares in a company.   The    <----
|> >price is whatever the market sets for the shares from time    <----
|> >to time.   If at the time of the offering, no one is quite    <----
|> >sure how well the company is going to do as a public company, 
|> >they won't offer too high a price for it.   If after a few 
|> >months it becomes clear that the company is going to do far 
|>  ^^^^^^ [or a few minutes? ;=)   ]
|> >better as a public company than as a nationalized company, 
|> >then the price that people are willing to offer will rise.
|> >
|> [...]
|> >
|> >jon. 
|> 
|> Two thoughts here...
|> 
|> Jon is just trying to provoke pinkos like myself with a bunch of preposterous
|> garbage which even Margaret Thatcher could barely say with a straight face...
|> 
|> Or... He really believes this *utter nonsense*???? (no smileys in sight).

Mr Harrison.   You don't seem to get it.   I was one of the 
people I am referring to here.    I bought shares in a company 
I used to work for at $2 a share, the under-writers thought it 
was worth $16, and within a few hours of going on the market 
it was worth over $20, and has subsequently gone to $40, split 
and gone to $35.    

And there are plenty of other examples where the underwriters
simply don't know how the public are going to price a company,
and so there is a huge price rise in the first day, first week
or first year. 

So now, as always, readers can decide which of us is talking
"utter nonsense".     You're throwing out labels, and I'm
describing what actually happened, and which happens all the
time.

Oh, and I'll spare you the obvious retort that if pinkos are 
"provoked" by reality, that says a lot about pinkos.    That's 
far too nasty a thing for even me to say.

jon.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.british:14153 soc.culture.celtic:6800