HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cgates@mitre.org (Curt Gates)
Subject: Re: Boarding(was Re: Coast Guard Boating Tax, NOT!)
Organization: The MITRE Corporation
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 19:05:00 GMT

In article <BzEyG3.828@encore.com> tflynn@encore.com (Tonya Flynn) writes:
> The searches
> by the Coast Guard, on the other hand, were humiliating and expensive
> encounters.

The last I heard, the Coast Guard takes abusive incidents like this very 
seriously.  In response to complaints like the one you describe, they put 
a team together to change the situation and I was under the impression 
that horror stories like this have been brought to an abrupt end with new 
regulations and training.  Would be interested in knowing if this is not 
so.
From: bloxham@geophysics.harvard.edu (Jeremy Bloxham)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Chartering in the Grenadines
Date: 16 Dec 92 14:48:02 GMT
Article-I.D.: das.1992Dec16.144802.1752
Reply-To: bloxham@geophysics.harvard.edu
Organization: Earth and Planetary Sciences, Harvard University

In article 21966@microsoft.com, jayph@microsoft.com (Jay Phillips) writes:
>We're planning a sail charter trip to the vicinity of the Grenadines around
>November of '93.
>
I've not sailed in the Grenadines in November, but I have once in late
December and twice in March. In the Carribean as a whole, late December
onwards tends to be quite windy (20-25 knots is common, 30 not unusual).
Squalls are fairly frequent and usually very short lived - by the time
you've reduced sail they are usually long gone.

Between islands in the Grenadines, especially between St Vincent and
Bequia, between Grenada and Carriacou, and between St Luica and St
Vincent (not really the Grenadines), the seas can be quite large and
one gets a very strong impression of being on the ocean.

It makes for much more exciting though more challenging sailing than
one finds in the Virgin Islands. It is definitely less touristy than
the Virgin Islands.  However, don't take this to imply that I have
anything against the Virgin Islands, they too offer great sailing -
we're headed there again very soon.

One recommendation: consider a one-way charter from St Lucia down to
Grenada. Thw wind will be more favourable in that direction and you'll
have more time, and will avoid having to back track. There's lots to
see so the more time you have the better.

Have a great time - it's hard not to!

Jeremy
From: jcs@zoo.bt.co.uk (John C Sager)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Loran vs SatNav (Was Bermuda...)
Date: 18 Dec 92 10:40:39 GMT
Organization: British Telecommunications plc

In article <wwalker-141292120220@bwalker.qualcomm.com>, wwalker@qualcomm.com (Bill Walker) writes:
> In article <1992Dec14.112836.25447@zoo.bt.co.uk>, jcs@zoo.bt.co.uk (John C
> Sager) wrote:
> [stuff deleted]
> > GPS also allows height fixes
> > (not much use on a boat but great for aircraft & land navigation).
> > 
> > John C Sager					Mail:	B67 G18, BT Labs
> > Email:	jcs@zoo.bt.co.uk				Martlesham Heath
> > Tel:	+44 473 642623					IPSWICH  IP5 7RE
> > Fax:	+44 473 637614					England
> 
> But you have to be aware of what model is used for the earth.  I've seen
> GPS receivers indicating negative altitude when I was on dry land here in
> San Diego (-11 meters, as I recall).

True, but in fact there is currently more error due to Selective Availability.
I averaged the XYZ position output of a GPS receiver in a fixed location
for a week. Solving for lat, long & alt using our local datum (OSGB36) I got
a position which was at least as accurate as the map I was using (1:25000).
However, I observe excursions of hundreds of feet in altitude over periods of
hours. Let's hope Bill Clinton decides to turn S/A off...

John C Sager					Mail:	B67 G18, BT Labs
Email:	jcs@zoo.bt.co.uk				Martlesham Heath
Tel:	+44 473 642623					IPSWICH  IP5 7RE
Fax:	+44 473 637614					England
 
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: mwhhlaw!tim (Timothy E. Hollingsworth)
Subject: Boarding(was Re: Coast Guard Boating Tax, NOT!)
Reply-To: uunet!mwhhlaw!tim
Organization: Martin Wade Hartley & Hollingsworth
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 13:11:39 GMT

In article <1gnputINNlae@charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu> cworth@OAVAX.CSUCHICO.EDU  
(CHUCK WORTH) writes:
> In article <7975@tekig7.PEN.TEK.COM>, alany@tekig5.pen.tek.com (Alan  
Yelvington) writes:
> >PLEASE!  No matter what you think, the
> >Coast Guard is our friend.
> 
> HORSEPUCKY!  As long as the Coasties are conducting armed, warrantless
> boardings and searches of US ships in US waters (under the pretext of
> drug interdiction) they're no friends of mine.

I have actually been boarded a couple of times.  The boarders were businesslike  
and courteous.  My impression is that the Coast Guard is doing this job because  
they have been directed to do so.  They did not invent the policy of "zero  
tolerance."  That policy was a political one.

On the other hand, I have overheard (on the marine radio) the Guard go to  
extremes to assist boaters (not sailors :-)!) who have gotten in trouble doing  
something amazingly stupid. 
--
Tim Hollingsworth
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: rkd@pt.com (Ray Downes)
Subject: Re: Deep-V off-plane wandering (was/is Mercruiser questions)
Organization: Performance Technologies, Incorporated
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 18:22:42 GMT

>On 11 Dec 92, torsten@unisql.UUCP wrote:
>
> My boat has a strange tendency to "fishtail" while bumbling along at
> 1200 RPM.  It runs straight as an arrow at speed.

My 21' Four Winns Sundowner "hunts" too. I have added a 10HP aux
outboard, quite off the centerline of the boat, and frankly hoped that,
when under way on the aux motor that the symptom would vanish
(presuming the offset "push" would cause the boat to "crab" slightly,
thus eliminating the problem) ... Nope!

Just another curious datapoint ...
-- 
Ray Downes, Performance Technologies Incorporated		rkd@pt.com
315 Science Parkway, Rochester, New York 14620		  
Voice - (716) 256-0200, FAX (716) 256-0791
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: rrusk@ssd.csd.harris.com (Bob Rusk)
Subject: Re: Automatic or manual transmission for towing?
Reply-To: rrusk@ssd.csd.harris.com
Organization: Harris Computer Systems Division
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 16:09:58 GMT

On Fri, 11 Dec 1992 19:20:11 GMT, donr@hpcvcdo.cv.hp.com (Don Reid) wrote:

>I have been looking for a new mini van recently.  Several of the 
>manufacturs offer "Towing" Packages.  I have noticed that several of these
>REQUIRE the automatic transmission.  So at least these guys think their
>automatics can handle it.

Or their stick-shifts can't.  The exception to this, of course, is
Toyota.  With the somewhat-underpowered Previa, you're probably much
better off towing with their 5-speed than with their automatic.

Chrysler, Chevy and Ford don't seem to offer a stick-shift in their 
mini-vans that is capable of handling their large engines.  The 
Lumina/Trans-Van GM mini-vans don't offer a stick.  The Mazda isn't 
available with the stick-shift and the large engine.  I'm not sure about
the new Nissan/Mercury and the new VW EuroVan.

It seems reasonable to just follow the manufacturer's suggestions.
They should know which drivetrains are up to the strain and which
aren't.  Some manufacturers make sturdier stick-shifts, others make
sturdier automatics.  It seems that there aren't too many that are
doing both anymore.  It's only in cases like the Toyota Previa and
many light trucks where the question of "which is better" comes down
to "which will be nicer to tow with" instead of "which is sturdy
enough to tow with".

As long as people are sitting around shouting "{stick,automatic}
RULES!", I'll state that I prefer the automatic at the launching ramp,
but I prefer the stick shift everywhere else.  If the clutch is sturdy
enough and 1st gear is low enough to keep from overstressing the
clutch on the ramp, I'll put up with the stick shift at the ramp in
order to have the extra control and efficiency that it gives me in
other situations.

--
 Bob Rusk
 rrusk@ssd.csd.harris.com
 My thoughts, probably not Harris'.

Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: zielke@hemlock.nrl.navy.mil (David Zielke)
Subject: Re: Marelon fittings (was Re: Zincs on boats)
Organization: Naval Research Laboratory
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 20:17:46 GMT

In article <724388321snx@mmp@nlbbs.UUCP> lhm@mmp@nlbbs.UUCP (Lou McIntosh) writes:

> Nice idea, floating the oil in ... I'm afraid the lesson to be learned is 
> to drill and tap 1/8-inch NPT into the valve body, put a nylon pipe plug in
> it, and carry an assortment of grease nipples and a grease gun!
> Vegetable oil doesn't seem to stick around very long, though -- unlike the 
> good old "waterpump grease", which I would suggest for any metal through-
> hulls.  Haven't any idea how or whether the grease reacts with Marelon;  I
> suspect it doesn't react at all.  But a teflon grease certainly would be 
> better.  

Hummm, my bronze seacocks have a threaded plug in the side which I use to
drain water out of them when winterizing the boat after closing the valve, I
guess I could screw a grease zirt into this and with the ball open get some
grease in there...


David Zielke
'Botany Bay'
Cal 35 Hull 006

zielke@fozzie.nrl.navy.mil

Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: robb@tfs.com (Not a tty)
Subject: Re: Coast Guard Boating Tax, NOT!
Organization: TRW Financial Systems
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 02:17:44 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.202932.14686@ee.rochester.edu> paul@ee.rochester.edu (Paul Osborne) writes:
>In article <1gnputINNlae@charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu> cworth@OAVAX.CSUCHICO.EDU writes:
>>In article <7975@tekig7.PEN.TEK.COM>, alany@tekig5.pen.tek.com (Alan Yelvington) writes:
>>>PLEASE!  No matter what you think, the
>>>Coast Guard is our friend.
>>
>>HORSEPUCKY!  As long as the Coasties are conducting armed, warrantless
>>boardings and searches of US ships in US waters (under the pretext of
>>drug interdiction) they're no friends of mine.
>>
>>
>	Yea, and the time that you are out there and in trouble and need 
>	the help, you pick up the mike and shout for the CG, and they 
>	show up in 40+ knot winds and 15+ footers you will be glad to 
>	say thank you.

Think about what you just said.  In other words, it's okay to deprive all of
us of our constitutional rights, because from time to time they save someone 
in distress.  How does this differ from the Mafia or any other well meaning
dictatorship?  

Perhaps you haven't noticed, but your FRIENDLY COAST GUARD can board your
boat for any reason they choose, search your boat for any reason they choose,
and do not require even the slightest provocation or suspicsion.  Why is this
different from allowing police officers to search your home, car or person
without probable cause?
-- 
Robb Kane (robb@tfs.com) | Triarchy - 1: government by three persons   2: a 
TRW Financial Systems    | country under three rulers   3: A large, elegant,
Berkeley, California     | full keeled sailing vessle so named for its crew.
From: matts@thesun.EBay.Sun.COM (Matt Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Chris Craft Cavalier
Date: 15 Dec 1992 19:19:25 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: matts@thesun.EBay.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: thesun.ebay.sun.com

I would like to hear from anyone who owns a 26-27 foot Cavalier,
I am interested in hearing your opinions on this particular boat.
Thanks, Matt 
---

		      __/___		| Matt Smith    Sun MicroSystems
	        _____/______|		| Internet:     matt.smith@EBay.Sun.COM
	_______/_____\_______\_____
	\ 		          |  
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"The three most dangerous things in the world are a programmer with a 
soldering iron, a hardware type with a program patch and a user with an idea."

Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: moseley@u.washington.edu (Steve L. Moseley)
Subject: Re: Coast Guard user fee repealed!
Organization: Microbial Pathogenesis and Motorcycle Maintenance
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 17:47:58 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.141656.1172@panix.com>
 spencer@panix.com (David Spencer) writes:

>I'm probably the only person who's going to disagree with you here.
>The user fee is a terrific idea. My momma taught me to pay for what I
>use, and not to slop at the government trough.

>Why tax the poor to provide a service to the rich? As for commercial
>fisherman, it's a cost of doing business. Only now it's going to be
>paid by someone else.

>Grow up and shoulder your responsibilities.

I agree with you 100%, I just didn't have the balls to be the first to say 
so. If you're well off enough to be able to play with boats, or even work 
with boats, how can you whine about such a small donation to the government? 
That C sticker on my boat is undoubtedly the least expensive thing I've put 
on the boat. I agree that the government could probably come up with a 
better or more equitable way of funding its operations, but I get my money's 
worth out of our government, as imperfect as it is, so I'm not going to cry 
about an extra couple of bucks that the guy without the boat doesn't have to 
pay.

Steve (U.S.) Moseley
__________________________________________________________________________
Steve L. Moseley                                  moseley@u.washington.edu
Microbiology SC-42                                Phone: (206) 543-2820
University of Washington                          FAX:   (206) 543-8297
Seattle, WA 98195
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: bowers@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Al Bowers)
Subject: Re: Gybing Centreboards
Organization: NASA Dryden, Edwards, Cal.
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 21:13:48 GMT

In article <129490001@otter.hpl.hp.com> cgr@otter.hpl.hp.com (Chris Romans) writes:

>Can anybody explain to me the theory of a gybing centreboard and what
>are it's advantages and disadvantages over a non-gybing centreboard?

Okay.  You have to think of a centerboard as a wing, like that on an
airplane.  in order for this wing to work as well to both sides (port
and starboard tack) it has to be symmetric.  Okay, a symmetric wing
develops lift only at angle of attack.  It turns out you can calculate
this number (called the lift curve slope or the change in lift per
unit change in angle of attack) quite simply (all you need to know is
the aspect ratio of the wing/board).  So that means that in order to
develop lift on the board to counter-act the lift force of the sails,
you need to develop some angle of attack.  Unfortunately, upwind
sailing is where you develop the most sideforce (lift) from your
sails, and also when you have the least velocity through the water.
This means that you need the largest angle of attack on your board
going upwind.

With a non-gybing board, you have to drag the hull through the water
at that same angle of attack as you need on the board.  This produces
lots of drag from the hull.  But if you put an angle of incidence on
the board to start with (gybe the board) you can reduce the angle that
you drag the hull through the water.  Ideally this would be
adjustable, but conditions never are near your optimized point.  Also
in practice, the slop of the board fit allows water to slosh around in
the board case.

So ideally, a gybing board _should_ be more efficient.  But in actual
practice, it seldom is.  IMHO.

--
Al Bowers                       bowers@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov
NASA F-18 High Alpha Research Vehicle, Lead Aero
NASA, Dryden Flight Research Facility, Edwards, California
From: michaels@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Robert Michaelson)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Gybing Centreboards
Date: 16 Dec 92 23:11:29 GMT
Reply-To: michaels@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Robert Michaelson)
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD

In my limited experience crewing on 505's the boats with gybing
boards seemed to do the best against the non-gybing board boats
in moderate conditions with smooth water. (winds 7-13kts). When
the breeze was lighter, most of the time there wasn't enough
pressure on the board to keep it from slopping around. When the breeze
got stronger it got to be more of a crew work/survival thing.

As an aside there were some impressive performing bilgeboard big
boats in the 70's, specifically Hawkeye and Agressive designed by
Bruce King. If I remember right, they had no keel or centerboard on
the centerline at all. The rocker of the hull was somewhat deep with
internal ballast. Lift was provided by 2 foils, one on each side. The
foils were canted so that when the boat was heeling they were closer
to vertical, and I think the blades were asymetrical in cross section
with a built in angle of attack. (anyone on the net know more? my info
might be off). These boats cleaned up in a big way when they were
first racing, but the geniuses of IOR penalized them out of existence.

Anyone know what happened to Hawkeye and Agressive? Are they still
around?

rob
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: mwhhlaw!tim (Timothy E. Hollingsworth)
Subject: Re: Request for opinions: Cruising and fishing for food
Reply-To: uunet!mwhhlaw!tim
Organization: Martin Wade Hartley & Hollingsworth
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 13:45:39 GMT

In article <q_k2slg@rpi.edu> floydb@rpi.edu writes:
> I recently began wading through "ocean fishing" books available
> in our local libraries. Unfortunately they are mostly about
> sport fishing and not about eatable fishing. Any good bood 
> suggestions?
> 
A couple of years ago, Cruising World had an article on fishing while sailing.   
Included was the design of the rig, a place to order a rig (which I did), and  
other valuable suggestions.

You can call them at (401) 847-1588.  Nice people.

We tried the rig out on a sail from Ft. Lauderdale to Marathon (via the  
Columbus Day Regatta).  From memory, the rig consists of 75 ft or so of 150lb  
test line.  A squid type lure over a two oz. egg sinker is the terminal gear.   
The line is tied to about 2 feet of heavy shock cord which attaches to the boat  
with a brass snap hook.  While underway, The line and lure are let off the  
stern and the shock cord hooked to a cleat.

We caught three Kings between Ft. Lauderdale and Miami.  Following the  
article's suggestion, the line was retrieved by hand (with gloves).  Once the  
fish was aboard, we splashed a shot of rum on the fish's gills.  Almost  
instantly, the fish would be anestitized (sp?) sufficiently to remove the hook.   
However, when returned to the water, we were able to see the fish swim away.

Between Angelfish creek and Marathon, we caught two barracuda and a nice red  
snapper.  The snapper went into the pot.
--
Tim Hollingsworth
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: jfh@cs.brown.edu (John F. Hughes)
Subject: Radio Checks, was Coast Guard Boating Tax, NOT!
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 17:45:10 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.150521.2025@nynexst.com> jaf@nynexst.com (John Frieman) writes:
>In article <1992Dec17.222508.2053@ll.mit.edu> cogen@ll.mit.edu (David Cogen) writes:
>>
>>2) Ignore requests for radio checks.
>>
>With all of the clutter on the radio I wonder if there is any real
>communication going on.  It would be nice if some boaters would learn
>the basics of radio communication.

The notion of having the CG provide radio checks does not seem wise to me,
so the fact that they no longer provide these seems fine.

I find especially useful the fact that they now (in New England) 
will politely tell people *not* to ask for radio checks on 16, a channel
whose use has been re-defined. 

At this point, I am probably preaching to the choir, but let me offer
a suggestion:

You're listening on Channel 9, and you hear:

VOICE: Can someone give me a radio check?

What do you say? My answer is this:

JFH: Vessel calling for radio check, you are loud and clear in Red Brook 
Harbor, just east of Bassett's Island. Would you like to try it again on 
low power and see how you do? 

The followup is either silence from the caller, or a low-power check; after
either, I say

JFH: SARAH, WAI5186, standing by on 9. 

The large number of people who simply say "You're coming in loud and clear,
buddy!" is astounding. I once heard someone in Hadley Harbor call for a
check, and get a response from another boat in the same harbor. Amusing,
but not particularly helpful :-(. 

In short: when you answer a radio check, give a clear indication of your 
position, and offer to give a check for the low-power setting. Keep it
brief.

-John
From: karina@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Karina Haavik)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Boardings
Date: 19 Dec 92 22:14:48 GMT

In article <1992Dec19.065944.14085@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> 
dev@rye.ecn.purdue.edu (Larry Weeks) writes:

>The solution is make the government start obeying the law. Why dontcha
>read my .sig quote too. There's something called "rule of law" and
>principle involved here. We have a constitution which forbids the
>government from searching private property without a warrant, and
>forbids seizure of property unless paid for it, or *convicted* of a
>crime by a jury. These portions of the highest law of the land are
>being broken daily.   [...more deleted...]

Gentlemen, I think it's time for some facts!  :-)

It is my understanding that the coasties are subject to maritime law, not
civil law, and are therefore within the scope of the law when they board,
search, and seize.  Is anyone certain of the law?  Can we clear this up?

Obviously the legality affects everything else.  If they are within their 
rights, we have to explain to them why we think their policy is bad.  If they
are not within their rights, we have to sue them and stop them.  But either
way, libertarian hysteria isn't going to help a lot.

Any facts out there going cheap?

Karina


--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Karina Haavik   ******  karina@seas.upenn.edu  ***  Comet #2970
It looks like a boat.   It leaks like a boat.       It must be a boat.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: mmp@mmp.UUCP (Lou McIntosh)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: looking for a wooden boat to restore
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 92 15:42:40 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Maine Meeting Place * 207-324-5310 * Maine's Disabilities Network

        If you're looking for a wooden boat in tough shape, make sure you 
get in contact with WoodenBoat Magazine in Brooklin, ME.  Also, I'd suggest
dropping a note to Cannell/Payne and some of the other brokers, because 
although they can't make any real money by brokering the kind of boat you 
want, they'll keep you in mind and occasionally give you good leads.
        Unsolicited comments -- a wooden boat with serious cosmetic problems
but no structural problems is an oxymoron.  If you look at a boat with 
cosmetic problems you can bet heavily that restoring it will involve some 
structural work as well.  
        Also, dry rot per se doesn't exist -- it's dormant wet rot.  Rain
water that enters the boat through one of those "cosmetic" problem areas 
will resaturate the wood fibers and activate the rot again.  See 1 above.

Lou McIntosh
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: sap@lucid.com (Synthia Petroka)
Subject: cruising in Belize
Organization: Lucid, Inc., Menlo Park CA
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 23:58:31 GMT

Ahoy,

A group of friends and myself are planning on doing a bare-boat charter in
Belize during the spring of '93.  I would like to get any information
regarding charter companies in the area, weather/wind conditions that time of
year, book recommendations, must-see locations (both land and sea), and any
other local knowledge you might have.

Thanks.

-Synthia




Newsgroups: rec.boats