HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: comp.lang.rexx
Date:         Mon, 17 Aug 1992 08:29:29 PDT
From:         Dave Gomberg <GOMBERG@UCSFVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: SH Backquote
              17 Aug 1992 08:17:14 EST from <chris@CESTRIAN.CCF.SWRI.EDU>

Gee, Chris, wouldn't you prefer MAKEBUF/DROPBUF to DESBUF in your sample
file counting program?    Dave
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Organization: Universidade Federal da Paraiba - Campina Grande, Brasil
Newsgroups: comp.lang.rexx
Date:         Wed, 19 Aug 1992 12:24:40 EDT
From:         Helio Camilo dos Santos <HSANTOS@BRUFPB2.BITNET>
Subject:      REXX programs using IUCVTRAP

Hi friends,

    I'm looking for rexx programs that use IUCVTRAP to run disconected.
(Like GONE EXEC).

    If you have some example (programs or documents), please, send
them to HSANTOS@BRUFPB2.BITNET.

           Thanks in advance |


Helio Camilo dos Santos (hsantos`brufpb2.bitnet)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.rexx
Newsgroups: comp.lang.rexx
Date:         Wed, 12 Aug 1992 11:22:07 PDT
From:         Dave Gomberg <GOMBERG@UCSFVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: command output to a queue in OS/2 (was: Automated FTP
              session)
              12 Aug 1992 12:04:00 GMT from <pmuellr@VNET.IBM.COM>

On Wed, 12 Aug 1992 12:04:00 GMT 'Pat Mueller' said:
>> While on the subject of REXX API's am I missing something or is there
>> no interface between REXX and OS/2.  What I have in mind is the
>
>There is an RXQUEUE program which reads from stdin, and places the
>lines received on the stack.  So you can do something like this
>
>   "DIR | RXQUEUE"
>   do while queued()
>      parse pull line
>      ...
>   end
>
>As far as I know, this >is< documented (hardcopy and online, at least
>for 2.0), but it would be in the reference manual.
>
>Patrick Mueller
>pmuellr@vnet.ibm.com
>Programming Systems, IBM Cary, NC

Pat, I guess you have just issued yet another arguement for shipping the
hardcopy doc without cost.  I just looked in the OS/2 Command Ref online
and RXQUEUE is not found by search (all sections, all libraries), nor
is it in the global list of commands.   RXQUEUE function is listed in
the REXX doc, but it is something else.  I would assume that IBM takes the
posture that users who demonstrate a need for doc beyond what is provided
in the online version will be sent the paper doc without charge.  Please
enroll me in the list of those requiring OS/2 Ref Man and REXX UG and
Ref Man.  Many thanks.


Dave Gomberg    GOMBERG@UCSFVM  Internet node UCSFVM.UCSF.EDU  (415)731-7793
Seven Gateview Court, San Francisco CA 94116-1941
Newsgroups: comp.lang.rexx
From: JWEST@r3vm.dsd.trw.com (Judson West)
Subject: Re: PC-REXX ISPF Panels
Organization: TRW Electronic Systems Group
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 23:40:52 GMT

In article <glaser.714207503@guug.de>
glaser@guug.de (Edwin Glaser) writes:
 
>Hello,
>
>we are about to convert MVS-REXX programs to PC-REXX programms.
>(COWLISHAN, Personal REXX 3.0). Since all MVS-REXX programs
>include ISPF commands and panels, we have the question how
>is it possible, without too much effort, to convert to PC-REXX
>windows.
>
>Is it possible that a routine already exists whitch automatically
>scans in ISFP Panels and creates window or even a ISPF packet
>for PC ?
>
>Thanks in advance.
>--
>    Edwin Glaser (glaser@guug.de) INA Waelzlager Herzogenaurach
 
There is a company called:
    Tritus, Inc.
    6034 W. Courtyard Drive, Suite 360
    Austin, Texas, USA 78730-5014
    TEL: 512-794-5800
 
They are in the process of marketing a PC-based ISPF/PDF & REXX
program that will give you an ISPF environment very much like that
on VM or MVS. You will be able to create your own panels and drive
them with a dialog manager and REXX. They have been a little slow in
getting it all together, but feel free to contact them and check
it out for yourself.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Judson West                          Phone:     (310) 812-4394            |
| VM System Programmer                 Internet:  JWEST@r3vm.dsd.trw.com    |
| IBM Operating Systems                IBMMail:   IBMMAIL(USTRW001)         |
| TRW/Electronic Systems Group, One Space Park, Redondo Beach, CA 90278     |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.lang.rexx
From: ets@wrkgrp.COM (Edward T Spire)
Subject: Re: PARSE wishlist/brainstorming
Organization: The Workstation Group
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 15:39:53 GMT

anders@lise4.lise.unit.no (Anders Christensen) writes:
: In article <1992Aug20.154822.8057@hou.amoco.com> zjlc12@hou.amoco.com (Jerry Campbell) writes:
: 
: > Why not add the STEM keyword to the Parse instruction?  
: >    Parse Var data STEM  "hello" 1 stem. +3
:...
: Btw also files and stems could be used in the same way, instead of the
: stack: 
:    ADDRESS 'uni-shell' 'ls -l' TO STEM lines.
:    do i=1 to lines.0
:       parse var lines.i perm.i . user.i size.i . . . filename.i .
:       end
:...
: If what you want to do, is to put the output of 'ls' into a stem named
: "record.", why not the following syntax?
:    ADDRESS 'uni-shell' 'ls' TO STEM records.

At the last ANSI discussion the "users" all liked these kinds of
suggestions, i.e., making formal within the language definition the
kind of numerically based stem collections that are commonly used
in many programming applications.  The "implementers" in the group
were not so sure that we could jump right into that without due
consideration of the side effects.

I would not be a good person to discuss the possible side effects
(I was on the side of the "users" in this...)

Do we have a volunteer to present the counter-arguements?

========================================================================

Ed Spire                           email: ets@wrkgrp.com      (on uunet)
The Workstation Group              voice: 800-228-0255
6300 River Road, Suite 700            or  708-696-4800
Rosemont, Illinois  60018            fax: 708-696-2277
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Acknowledge-To: <RZOTTO@DKNKURZ1>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.rexx
Date:         Wed, 19 Aug 1992 20:22:03 MEZ
From:         Otto Stolz <RZOTTO@DKNKURZ1.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Capturing System Command Output (was: SH Backquote)

On Wed, 19 Aug 92 13:54:45 GMT Jean-Pierre Riviere said:
> Well, I am not a specialist but whatthe hell is the "RESULT" var done
> for ?

According to TRL (Section 14), and other sources, RESULT will always
hold the result of the REXX function finished most recently. Example:
     say time()
and
     call time
     say result
are semantically equivalent.  (Though my test run resulted in a dis-
crepancy in the least significant figures :-)

According to the same authoritative sources, the only variable affected
by a command to an external environment, is RC. It will hold the return
code of the command executed most recently.

In all operating systems I know of (admittedly not including Amiga), the
return code is a different concept from the standard output of a command.
Hence the current thread on how to grab the standard output *in addition
to the rc*.

> Would not be the better way be
> "ls -l ~"
> dir = result

Definitely not, as this would invalidate many existing REXX programs,
viz. programs that depend on the RESULT variable not being affected by
a command to an external environment.

> (This is the only available way to do it with arexx btw)

Hardly believable! If indeed so, Arexx would be grossly non-standard.
Please test your example, and report again.

> It's common rexx anf follows Cowlishaw's rules. (as far as I under-
> stood it...)

Definitely not (cf. supra). You'd better read Cowlishaw again!

> So why are you trying to implement hassles with
> dir = "ls -l ~"
> and all its derivative ?

Nobody has proposed this variant, for the simple reason that it
already has a meaning in REXX, quite different from what you seem to
expect, viz. set the variable DIR to the value "ls -l ~".

> Cannot the result way be good enough for us ?

Apparently not, for reasons given above.

> Just a reflexion from a rexx user. Nothing else.

Francly, I wouldn't call it a reflexion ...

Best wishes,
                    Otto Stolz <RZOTTO@DKNKURZ1.Bitnet>
                               <RZOTTO@nyx.uni-konstanz.de>
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: comp.lang.rexx
Date:         Fri, 14 Aug 1992 21:33:40 PDT
Comments:     Warning -- original Sender: tag was NETNEWS@BCSC02
From:         Perry Ruiter <PRUITER@BCSC02.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Stem vars as arguments?

>                                                 I have to declare over
>100 stem variables in this Rexx program I am working on.  I would really
>like to have all those declare statements in another CMS file and Call
>that file from within the Main Rexx program.

  What I've done in the past when faced with having to do something like
this is - place the values in an external file (as valid rexx statements)
and then read the file in a line at a time and interpret the line.
Eg:
  /**/

    spec = 'CMREXX COPY S'
    do lines(spec)
      interpret linein(spec)   /* read in and assign the values */
    end
    call lineout spec   /* close the file */
  exit

  The EXECIO solution is left as an exercise. This has the advantage of
not needing things like PIPES (this code will work back to VM/SP 3).
Since it's just raw rexx it's also relatively portable.
This also seems to be the way IBM suggests to do it as well. That's
why there's a CMREXX COPY and SRREXX COPY on your S disk. The only trick
is each line must be a valid rexx statement (you can't for instance
have multiline comments). ... Perry
* * *
Perry Ruiter W131 1 Plum (604)389-3130
From: chrisg@cbmvax.commodore.com (Chris Green)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.rexx
Subject: Re: SH Backquote
Date: 14 Aug 92 14:23:04 GMT
Reply-To: chrisg@cbmvax.commodore.com (Chris Green)
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA

In article <REXXLIST%92081316342058@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU> GOMBERG@UCSFVM.BITNET (Dave Gomberg) writes:
>There is also the issue of system commands, as opposed to BIFs.
>
>For these, use the RXQUEUE function if you are an OS/2 user:
>
>   'DATE | RXQUEUE' ; PULL X
>
>if date generates only a single line.  Patrick was kind enough to
>point this out for us.  Meanwhile, Patrick, is there also a RXSTEM
>and if so, can you reproduce the help file for us please?   Many
>thanks.   Dave


	Similarly, in AREXX you do

	'date | execio fifo' ; pull x
-- 
*-------------------------------------------*---------------------------*
|Chris Green - Graphics Software Engineer   - chrisg@commodore.COM      f
|                  Commodore-Amiga          - uunet!cbmvax!chrisg       n
|My opinions are my own, and do not         - icantforgettheimpression  o
|necessarily represent those of my employer.- youmadeyouleftaholeinthe  r
|"A screaming comes across the sky..."      - backofmyhead              d
*-------------------------------------------*---------------------------*
From: rwm@atronx.OCUnix.On.Ca (Russell McOrmond)
Date: 16 Aug 92 04:00:48 EST
Newsgroups: comp.lang.rexx
Subject: Re: SH Backquote
	<REXXLIST%92081316342058@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU>

chrisg@cbmvax.commodore.com (Chris Green) writes:
>	Similarly, in AREXX you do

>	'date | execio fifo' ; pull x

  That's a WSHELL feature that is not available to most people
so cannot be relied upon.


>|Chris Green - Graphics Software Engineer   - chrisg@commodore.COM      f
--
  Opinions expressed in this message are my Own. I represent nobody else.
  Russell McOrmond  rwm@Atronx.OCUnix.On.Ca Net Support:(613) 230-2282(V.32Bis)
  FidoNet 1:163/109 Welmat Help 1:1/139  Current WELMAT 'keeper of sources'.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: comp.lang.rexx
Date:         Mon, 17 Aug 1992 16:28:05 DST
From:         VALOREV@DKIBMVM1.VNET.IBM.COM
Subject:      SH Backquote
Comments: To: rexxlist@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

Chris, the example wasn't written, because a needed one, but only to
demonstrate the use of the backquote subroutine.

But i think that you should use a makebuf, before your listfile statment,
to avoid getting wrong results or wasting the data that the user has put on
the stack previously...

With Kind Regards
Victor Valore
Internet: valorev at dkibmvm1.vnet.ibm.com
Bitnet:   valorev at vnet
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: comp.lang.rexx
Date:         Wed, 19 Aug 1992 09:34:49 PDT
From:         Dave Gomberg <GOMBERG@UCSFVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Capturing System Command Output (was: SH Backquote)
              19 Aug 1992 14:00:00 GMT from <SEB1525@MVS.DRAPER.COM>

Steve, looking at your laundry list of ways to do it, the only ones that
don't make assumptions about operating system facilites are the last
two, and these admit of very efficient implementations in OSs that do
have extra facilites such as piping and redirection.  So if we are voting
I vote for response_to_queue and response_to_stack, or whatever you
called them.  Thanks for the clear summary.   Dave

Dave Gomberg    GOMBERG@UCSFVM  Internet node UCSFVM.UCSF.EDU  (415)731-7793
Seven Gateview Court, San Francisco CA 94116-1941
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: comp.lang.rexx
Date:         Wed, 12 Aug 1992 12:17:45 PDT
From:         Dave Gomberg <GOMBERG@UCSFVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Stem vars as arguments?

Lynne, can you clarify what you mean by "Declare REXX stem variables,"
please?   Many thanks.   Dave
Newsgroups: comp.lang.logo
From: rjbodkin@theory.lcs.mit.edu (Ronald Bodkin)
Subject: Re: Future of Logo
Organization: MIT Lab for Computer Science
	<1992Aug5.203847.20530@beaver.cs.washington.edu>
	<1992Aug5.205845.22880@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu>
	<1992Aug6.014513.1526@beaver.cs.washington.edu>
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 22:21:08 GMT

In article <1992Aug6.014513.1526@beaver.cs.washington.edu> rrogers@cs.washington.edu (Richard Rogers) writes:
   Within the static partitions of a program, a variable is either local to the
   procedure or global.

	Not really: you can create scopes within procedures too:

void foo() {
  int i;
  i=2;
  {
    int i;
    i=3;
    emit(i);
  }
  emit(i);
}

This calls emit(3) then emit(2).  However, you can certainly make the
simplification of writing code without such nested scopes.

	Ron
From: bobp@hal.com (Bob Pendelton)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.logo
Subject: Re: Object Logo (was Re: Logo is based on 1960s...)
Date: 19 Aug 92 20:01:10 GMT
Organization: HaL Computer Systems, Inc.

I'll just take a moment here to point out that object oriented
programming is also a '60s if not a '50s concept. Simula 67 was at
least the second version of Simula and the '67 refers to the year it
was released.

Sadly, it's taken more than 20 years for Joe Average Programmer to
rrealize that it's a good idea.

				Bob P.

-- 
Bob Pendleton             | As an engineer I hate to hear:
bobp@hal.com              |   1) You've earned an "I told you so."
Speaking only for myself. |   2) Our customers don't do that.
                   <<< Odin, after the well of Mimir. >>>
From: fish@cs.utah.edu (Russ Fish)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.logo
Subject: Lego logo...
Date: 19 Aug 92 23:51:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: kzin.FISH.92Aug19165123
Distribution: comp
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept

In article <36966@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> cbaray@euclid.ucsd.edu (Cristobal Baray)
writes:
>   I just found this newsgroup and was wondering if you all could e-mail or
>   post some more info on Legos and logo...

Dacta (the educational part of Lego) builds an I/O box, with interface cards
for PC's as well as Apple IIe's and IIgs's.  They also sell a "TC Logo" with
some extensions to drive it.  (I thought I heard someone say it is based on
LogoWriter II.)

This fits together nicely with light and touch sensors, Technic and regular
bricks, motors, shafts and gears, etc.  They have some really cool Technic
moving parts, including tractor treads, universal joints, even little worm and
differential gear assemblies. (!)  Black-and-white patterned "counting wheels"
allow using the light sensors to get measured motion from the motors.

Dacta sells courseware applying it all to simple machines, problem solving,
physical science, motorized transmission systems, etc.  In particular, there
are plans for building a Lego Turtle that has been discussed here recently...
 
I picked up a Dacta flyer while touring the Media Lab a little while ago.  It
said: "For further information, or to request any of the above, please write
or call:"
	Sarah McDonald
	Educational Products
	LEGO Systems, Inc.
	555 Taylor Road
	Enfield, CT  06082
	(203) 749-2291
	(800) 527-8339

I did, and they sent me a nice info packet/catalog.  So far, all I've done is
discuss the possibilities with 10-year old son, and his teachers...

I'd be interested in hearing of experiences with this stuff, both in home and
school environments.

-Russ Fish			fish@cs.utah.edu		(801) 581-5884
Standard Disclamer: I'm just a happy Lego user, and a potential Dacta customer.
--

-Russ Fish			fish@cs.utah.edu		(801) 581-5884
From: rrogers@sumax.seattleu.edu (Richard Rogers)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.logo
Subject: Re: LOGO has saved the day : >
Date: 23 Aug 92 11:17:14 GMT
Organization: Seattle University, Seattle WA

Newsgroups: comp.lang.logo
Subject: Re: LOGO has saved the day :>
Summary: 
Expires: 
Followup-To: 
Distribution: 
Organization: Seattle University, Seattle WA
Keywords: 

In article <168489C6A.SDENARO@vm.poly.edu> SDENARO@vm.poly.edu writes:
>In article <7230@skye.ed.ac.uk>
>ken@aiai.ed.ac.uk (Ken Johnson) writes:
> 
>>In article <16846BBA1.SDENARO@vm.poly.edu> SDENARO@vm.poly.edu writes:
>>
>>#  I installed the DOS logo from CHER.MIT.EDU on the PC of a 11 year old
>>#  kid from Brooklyn.  [...] I will start him on Pascal in a year or two.
>>
>>Erm, why?
>>
>The only options I have seen are Pascal and BASIC. BASIC is a language that
>does a great diservice to the student. I have recived mail from a few people
>saying that I should teach him LISP, Scheme, ms Visual BASIC and Oberon.
> 
>I have never heard of scheme or Oberon. I don't like LISP or BASIC. And, lest
> 
>I think Pascal is a nice language. It is easy to learn; and, if nothing else,
>It show that everyone must put up with stupid rules in order to get a job
>done.
> 
>Why is everyone Pascal bashing?
 
>--
>SAL DENARO      "Live Fast, Die Young, Hack 'C'"
>sdenaro@polyvm.poly.edu    sdenaro@polyvm.bitnet
>'SDENARO@vm.poly.edu Ken Johnson          8/19/92*LOGO has saved the day :>

Scheme is a variant of LISP with lexical scope and first-class functions.  
Oberon is a scaled down Pascal with strange ideas about object oriented program-
ming :-) 

Personally, I agree that Pascal is the best next step.  I learned Logo, BASIC,
ForTran, and then Pascal.  When I got to Pascal, I thought it was (almost) 
perfect, and wondered why they had wasted my time with those other silly
languages :-)  A few of Pascal's restrictions are rather stupid, but I found
most of them very helpful.

Newsgroups: comp.lang.logo
Subject: Re: LOGO has saved the day : >
Summary: 
Expires: 
Followup-To: 
Distribution: 
Organization: Seattle University, Seattle WA
Keywords: 
Newsgroups: comp.lang.logo
From: nelson@bolyard.wpd.sgi.com (Nelson Bolyard)
Subject: Re: Kid's introduction book?
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc., Mountain View, CA
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 06:16:41 GMT

smith@sctc.com (Rick Smith) writes:
>Is there some book somewhere that lays out a series of simple lessons
>on Logo programming? We have a Logo for my second grader to learn on,

I recommend "The Commodore 64 LOGO Workbook" by M.J. Winter,
published by DATAMOST, 20660 Nordhoff ST. Chatsworth CA 91311-6152.
It may now be out of print.

I bought this book for my son, when he was in third grade, 3 years ago.
He had no trouble following it.  It's a workbook, not a text.  You learn
everything by example.  The book has a few syntactic quirks specific to 
the C-64, but the instructions were easily modified to work with Ladybug
as my son worked through the book.

The book has lots of challenges, like showing a simple drawing and
challenging the child to write logo to draw a similar picture.  
The child is his/her own judge of how well s/he did, and doesn't have to
get dimensions exactly right, nor use any prescribed approach to solving
the problem.  

The only problem I had with this workbook was motivation.  
My son quickly tired of drawing simple polygons.  The trick was to 
demonstrate logo programs that were impressive enough to grab his
interest, yet not seem out of reach.  Fortunately, Ladybug came with a
number of good demos.
--
Nelson Bolyard      nelson@sgi.COM      {decwrl,sun}!sgi!whizzer!nelson
Disclaimer: Views expressed herein do not represent the views of my employer.
--
Newsgroups: comp.lang.logo
From: peter@ferranti.com (peter da silva)
Subject: Re: LOGO has saved the day : >
Reply-To: peter@ferranti.com (Peter da Silva)
Organization: Xenix Support, FICC
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 22:56:36 GMT

Pascal is a fine language to learn a more traditional approach after working
with Logo. Another good step would be to segue into Pascal with Karel.

Lisp is a fine language to extend the lessons learned with Logo. Lisp and
Logo are quite similar (the main difference being the more regular syntax
in lisp, and the lack of back-pointers in lists).

C is a lousy language to hit a kid with. It's great for writing moderately
large programs you want to be portable and efficient, but it's got too much
noise in the definition.

Forth is a good language for an older student, who has some familiarity
with the hardware. Again, I wouldn't hit a kid with it... diagnosing syntax
errors by crashing the compiler is a bit much.

Smalltalk and Prolog are good choices to broaden the mind.
-- 
Peter da Silva                                               `-_-'
$ EDIT/TECO LOVE                                              'U` 
%TECO-W-OLDJOKE Not war?                        Have you hugged your wolf today?
Ferranti Intl. Ctls. Corp.      Sugar Land, TX  77487-5012       +1 713 274 5180
From: faustus@ygdrasil.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Wayne A. Christopher)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.logo
Subject: Re: Lego logo...
Date: 20 Aug 1992 05:37:53 GMT
Organization: University of California at Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: ygdrasil.cs.berkeley.edu

In article <FISH.92Aug19165123@kzin.cs.utah.edu> fish@cs.utah.edu (Russ Fish) writes:
> Dacta (the educational part of Lego) builds an I/O box, with interface cards
> for PC's as well as Apple IIe's and IIgs's.  They also sell a "TC Logo" with
> some extensions to drive it.  (I thought I heard someone say it is based on
> LogoWriter II.)

It's based on LogoWriter, and is pretty easy to use -- the primitives
are fairly straightforward.  I've used it with a class of 5th and 6th
graders for two semesters, and I've found that it is hard to get them
to write any real programs for controlling their "robots".  The "floor
turtle" is fun, but the programs they write for the "screen turtle"
don't adapt well because the accuracy isn't very good and the turtle
moves fairly slowly.  Most of the kids ended up writing simple loops
to turn on and off motors.  On the other hand, there are some projects
that come with the sets, like a washing machine that won't go if the
door is open, if you want to give the kids pre-designed projects to
do.

	Wayne
Newsgroups: comp.lang.logo