HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rteasdal@polyslo.csc.calpoly.edu (Rusty)
Subject: Another Reactionless Drive?
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 21:09:40 GMT
Organization: Cal Poly State Univ,CSC Dept,San Luis Obispo,CA 93407
Summary: talk of a working reactionless thruster 
Keywords: Cook Cooke Dean CIP 


	I had the unexpected pleasure yesterday of tuning into the 
primary public radio station here on the central California coast and
hearing a discussion with an inventor who claims to have come up with
a reactionless drive. His name is Sam Cook (Cooke?) and he calls his
engine the CIP, for Cooke Inertial Propulsor, or some such.

	It sounded like classic crank bullshit at first, and I have
heard quite a lot of that over the years in fringe science circles. The
venue for the discussion didn't help - it was a program called "Timeless
Voyagers", or some such, and it was hosted by one of that all too numerous
species known to ornithologists as the New Age Bubbleheaded Thumbsucker.
The host was really keen on the idea that the CIP might be, like, the
way UFOs fly, man. He also spoke glowingly of humanity crossing into new
dimensions through reactionless propulsion.  

	I tried to not listen whenever the host was speaking with his
usual ignorant and uncritical enthusiasm, and Cooke was not much better.
He compared himself favorably to scientific greats of the past and to
misunderstood inventors of bygone days. To his credit he did not blame
suppression of his discovery on the Evil Government or Big Corporations, 
as cranks are wont to do.

	And, adding some small credibility, they actually had as guests
two gentlemen with skeptical attitudes and strong technical credentials.
One was an engineer from MIT who serves in some capacity with the FAA.
The other was from JPL, hardly a fount of pseudoscience (although I have
seen a lot of good people fooled by bullshit before, of course).

	The man from JPL commented that the device had superficial
resemblances to the fabled Dean Drive, of which I have heard only veiled
whispers over the years. He said, in what was news to me, that JPL had
in fact tested a Dean device and had found it lacking in credibility
(though he did not say for what reason). He did say that he found the
CIP system much more believable and that he was about ready to concede
that Cook(e) has found some radically new means of propulsion. The MIT
engineer was similarly inclined in his opinion.

	Is it bullshit or not? I have no idea. Still, I am always mindful
of the fact that diamonds can be found in mud pits, so I'll not dismiss
the question out of hand. What I'm wondering is whether anyone has heard
anything about CIP who can provide me with some fuller details (I missed
quite a lot of the conversation), or, for that matter, about the Dean
device, since I have no hard information about that either...


   
-- 
||||||||   Russ Teasdale -- rteasdal@polyslo.CalPoly.EDU  --  (Rusty)  ||||||||
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gentlemen, if we do not succeed, then we run the risk of failure." - D. Quayle

Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.new-theories
From: baarniy@iastate.edu (Scott A Coon)
Subject: pet peeve
Followup-To: baarniy@iastate.edu
Keywords: reference
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 17:10:41 GMT

I'll probably get flamed for this little SUGGESTION (and that's all
that it is, ok?), but here goes.
	Constantly in this group (and a few others) I see people using
the phrase "he referenced..." or "the paper he refernces..."  Since
we're trying to have an intellectual interaction, I thought some of you
might like to know that the word you want is "cites" or "cited" (sy-ted).
"Reference" is a noun.
	Look at it this way.  By using "cite" you have the benefits of
1) being correct
2) typing a shorter word
3) not annoying anybody who uses "cite", and possibly annoying them to
the point where they dismiss your article as childish and irrelevant, when
you may actually have discovered the secret of the Cosmos.  (Could be
important if a Nobel laureate happens to be reading the net....)

Just trying to be helpful....
Scott
.
From: columbus@strident.think.com (Michael Weiss)
Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.new-theories
Subject: Re: Another Reference to a Paper Dealing With Puthoff's Work
Date: 9 Apr 92 09:43:16
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: strident.think.com
In-reply-to: tarl@sw.stratus.com's message of 9 Apr 92 04:21:02 GMT

In article <2033@transfer.stratus.com> tarl@sw.stratus.com (Tarl
Neustaedter) writes: 

   Last I checked, QED had been shown to be accurate down to 13 decimal places
   or so; only limitations on measurement kept it from being shown to be more
   accurate (I'll have to dig up my reference from Feynman on this one).

   Since SED (presumably scalar electrodynamics) won't be more accurate, the
   only thing that could make it replace QED would be that it is easier to
   use and produces the same results. In that case, BY ALL MEANS, show us the
   derivation of Schroedinger's equation and how their formulations can be
   used more easily than QED's quite cumbersome mathematics.
   -- 
	    Tarl Neustaedter	tarl@sw.stratus.com
	    Marlboro, Mass.	Stratus Computer
   Disclaimer: My employer is not responsible for my opinions.

SED stands for stochastic electrodynamics.  From my limited knowledge of
it, SED is essentially a "classical" theory-- SED has no "collapse of the
wave packet".

Calculation isn't everything.  If SED could be shown to be formally
equivalent to QED (in the same sense that matrix mechanics and wave
mechanics were shown to be formally equivalent), that would change the
whole framework of the debate over the foundations of QM.

The history of this debate is, I think, what makes people skeptical
(myself included) of SED.

As for the "energy from the vacuum" stuff, at least someone has a start on
a good sf yarn!
From: tarl@sw.stratus.com (Tarl Neustaedter)
Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.new-theories
Subject: Re: Another Reference to a Paper Dealing With Puthoff's Work
Date: 9 Apr 92 04:21:02 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <xgrjtwj.noring@netcom.com>, noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring) writes:
> that Shroedinger's equation can be derived from SED;  right now several
> researchers are working on firming up the foundations of the proof (several
> papers have been published already, with more coming), and he believes that
> it won't be long before the proof will be unassailable.  From what I gather
> (this was not mentioned by Dr. Puthoff), this lends further support to the
> possibility that SED may very well supplant QED since its fundamental
> postulates are more firmly grounded (again, this is my interpretation, so
> flame me and not Dr. Puthoff).

Last I checked, QED had been shown to be accurate down to 13 decimal places
or so; only limitations on measurement kept it from being shown to be more
accurate (I'll have to dig up my reference from Feynman on this one).

Since SED (presumably scalar electrodynamics) won't be more accurate, the
only thing that could make it replace QED would be that it is easier to
use and produces the same results. In that case, BY ALL MEANS, show us the
derivation of Schroedinger's equation and how their formulations can be
used more easily than QED's quite cumbersome mathematics.
-- 
         Tarl Neustaedter	tarl@sw.stratus.com
         Marlboro, Mass.	Stratus Computer
Disclaimer: My employer is not responsible for my opinions.
From: nilsb@daimi.aau.dk (Nils Bundgaard)
Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.acoustics
Subject: Re: Need Cheap A/D and Signal Anylizer, Computer Based?
Keywords: Signal Anylizer, software, A/D
Date: 9 Apr 92 20:14:05 GMT
Organization: DAIMI: Computer Science Department, Aarhus University, Denmark

edgarm@rs6109.ecs.rpi.edu (Marc Edgar) writes:


> Greetings,
> 
> I am in need of a digital signal anylizer but can not 
> affort the $20k that HP wants.  
> 
> I am getting a 386-33Mhz soon and was wondering if is anyone
> out there that sells an analog to digital board and software 
> to do signal processing in the audio range for say $500?
> 
> Is there any shareware for this?  
> 
> I don't need to do anything real fancy, just things like
>   Power Spectrum
>   Frequency and Phase Response
>   FFT
>   Total Harmonic Distortion.
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> Marc Edgar
> edgarm@rpi.edu

On a seminar in Indiana I visited in august 91 on Sound System
Measurements 3 interesting programs were shoved:

Hypersignal from Dallas, Texas had a double FFT up and running
including all the features you name plus crosscorrelation, waterfall etc.
If you added an quality DSP board, you were
able to read the testsignal into this board and replay it! It was possible to
edit the signal and hear selected parts of it!!. As I am measuring music and
acoustics hearing the signal is very important in judging the signal.
Price in the tag of $5000, but very interesting.

TEF from Elkhart, Indiana were showing the TEF-20 for PC and Mac.
This is a single FFT set up for Time Delay Spectromety, which gives
a signal to noise ratio allmost 10 dB better than most other methods.
Produces frequency, phase, impuls response, etc's. Price around $3500


Last brand was Ariel, a single FFT, but I do not remenber more details 
right here.

 Yours Nils Bundgaard
       EAR Electro Acoustic Research, Denmark.
--
*++*+*+***+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*++++**++++*+*+*+**+*++*+*+***+++*+*+*+*+*+**++*+*
   Nils Bundgaard       Naeringen 20         8240 Risskov              Denmark
     
      email nilsb@daimi.aau.dk    tlf prv 8621 3029  tlf Wrk 45 8619 5722
Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.acoustics,bit.listserv.scuba-l,rec.scuba
From: james@ee.uts.edu.au (A. James Boswell)
Subject: Underwater speakers
Organization: University of Technology, Sydney, Australia
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 01:50:33 GMT
Summary: can you help me source underwater speakers ?
Keywords: underwater speakers


Hello,
It's a case of "the net to the rescue" again. Can anyone help me with
info about underwater speakers. I believe they are used for such things
as synchronised swimming events etc. What I am after is a manufacturer
or supplier (preferably in Australia) and a rough price.

Any details appreciated, email prefered.

Many thanks,

James.

A. James Boswell                              _--_|\        PO BOX 123
Senior Technical Officer                     /      \       BROADWAY NSW
Computer Systems Group                       \_.--._*       AUSTRALIA 2007
School of Electrical Engineering                   v        FAX: 61 2 330-2435
UNIVERSITY OF TECHNOLOGY, SYDNEY                            PH:  61 2 330-2382
Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.acoustics
From: degelau@cae.wisc.edu (David Degelau)
Subject: Bose acoustic wave cannon
Organization: College of Engineering, Univ. of Wisconsin-Madison
Date: 14 Apr 92 19:58:07 CDT
Originator: degelau@ws-7.cae.wisc.edu

Does anyone have any information about the design or theory behind the
Bose Acoustic Wave Cannon subwoofer?  It appears to be a driver of about
12 inches diameter loaded on both sides with open ended cylindrical 
tubes, but I have no idea about how it works.  I have heard rumors that
the sensitivity is about 9-11 db higher than that of an average driver,
can these be true?  Can Anyone give me any information about such a
design?

Thanks in advance,

degelau@cae.wisc.edu
From: root@lri.uwo.ca (0000)
Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.acoustics
Subject: question on density/humidity on sound
Date: 14 Apr 92 22:08:29 GMT
Organization: Relayed-by-Sendmail
To: alt.sci.physics.acoustics@julian.uwo.ca

I was wondering if there exists a fairly simple physical explanation
of what would happen to a white sound packet as the density of
air decreased (ie go up in altitude). Obviously in the limiting case
the amplitude of sound would decrease to zero, but are certain
frquencies attenuated more quickly by decrease in air density than
others?

As well, what happens at fixed air density but variable relative
humidity? Are certain frequencies attenuated more quickly than others?

From such information I would like to "predict" what would happen
to the sound of various musical instruments if they are played in
a humid or dry environment or if played a sea level, or the top
of a mountain.

Any ideas in this query would be appreciated!
From: Bradford.C.Backus@dartmouth.edu (Bradford C. Backus)
Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.acoustics
Subject: RQST: Speaker drivers
Date: 14 Apr 92 05:22:17 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

Hello all, I am a student at Dartmouth college taking a course in Music
and Technology. My project for the term includes researching, building,
and testing my own speaker design. My largest setback is my inabilty to
accept that I must use radio shack parts. If anyone could send me
names, addresses, phone numbers or other information of good speaker
driver manufacturers, I would be more than happy to send you a post
card from Russia next spring. Other than that I will have no way to
repay you save my thanks.
            My regards to the world...-b
Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.acoustics
From: kdrolt@athena.mit.edu (Kenneth D Rolt)
Subject: Re: Underwater speakers
Keywords: sonar   underwater loudspeaker
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 16:11:07 GMT

In article <18051@oasys.dt.navy.mil> geversti@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Gordon Everstine) writes:
>I have heard it said that the small speakers used in PCs can be used
>underwater.  Such speakers are very inexpensive.

this is probably the least expensive way to do this, but you won't get
hi-fidelity across a wide band of frequency.

a way that has been ably demonstrated to me by a friend is to put the
speaker element in a container filled with non-electrical conducting
(and non-flammable) oil, and then seal the container.  the oil fill
provides a good acoustical path and also provides equal hydro pressure
to the container and contents.  the good part is that a trip to a
supermarket for the oil and a tupperware container, and a trip to radio
shack for the piezo speaker element, is a small cost.   the bad part is
the speaker can't be driven hard (loud), and the directivity isn't that good.
if you are clever, you might be able to solve the directivity problem.

another way to do this is to alter a woofer speaker (8" or larger diamter)
by cutting away the cone, stamped frame and the surround.  leave only the
voice coil, spider, and magnet assembly.  Somehow how want to connect, via
cement, the voice coil to the inside face of a thin metal disk (a cookie
tin for example).  the speaker guts fit inside the cookie tin, and run the
wires out thru the back.  You will have to water seal the works.    basically
you are trying to alter a loudspeaker for air acoustics into one suited (but
by no means optimized) for underwater use.    moving coil underwater sound
sources have been around for many years and they do work.  if you are handy
with mechanical stuff and waterproofing, and are somewhat handy with electrical
components (speakers e.g.) you can make an underwater loudspeaker yourself.

ken rolt    grad student  /  mit ocean engineering
kdrolt@athena.mit.edu
From: geversti@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Gordon Everstine)
Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.acoustics
Subject: Re: Underwater speakers
Date: 13 Apr 92 13:36:52 GMT
Reply-To: geversti@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Gordon Everstine)
Organization: David Taylor Research Center, Bethesda, Md.

I have heard it said that the small speakers used in PCs can be used
underwater.  Such speakers are very inexpensive.
Newsgroups: alt.overlords
From: williaj@mist.CS.ORST.EDU (Jeffrey Paul Williams)
Subject: May the best man win
Organization: Oregon State University, Computer Science Dept.
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 09:34:08 GMT





VOTE "NO" FOR PRESIDENT!!!!!!!


Or be like the real overlords we claim to be and vote for yourself.


PS: Not a statement in support of anarchy.
-- 
Jeff Williams                     | My opinions are my own and do not
Internet: williaj@cs.orst.edu     | reflect the beliefs of anyone foolish
				  | enough to disagree with me.
"Only people with full stomachs become environmentalists" David Brin in Earth
From: phygod72@nic.gac.edu (Phil )
Newsgroups: alt.overlords
Subject: Summer Conference???
Date: 13 Apr 92 19:38:07 GMT
Article-I.D.: gacvx2.1992Apr13.133808.845

Hi there everyone - it would seem that end-of-the-year syndrome has caught on  
to this newsgroup, and before everyone leaves (and loses net access) I'd like  
to find out what has happened with the OOO conference.  Is is still on, and if  
so where and when?  

Phil Miesle
Ambassador to the Intergalatic Planning Commission
From: csteffen@nim.gac.edu (Craig P Steffen)
Newsgroups: alt.overlords
Subject: Re: I may have been a bit hasty...
Date: 14 Apr 92 01:09:18 GMT
Article-I.D.: gacvx2.1992Apr13.190920.866

In article <bahn.68@edit.mndly.umn.edu>  writes:
> An informal tally is in... out of about fifteen people who responded,  
only 
> one said that he would in fact be my subject, and then only because he  
didn'
> t have to tithe. However, I have decided to be my own subject (as in "Be 
> Your Own Best Friend) and will demand a tithe from myself, to be spent  
on 
> hedonistic pleasure at the expense of my own personal well-being.

Highly commendable of you, sir.  Please do not cause yourself harm,  
physically or mentally, in the process.  
I apologize for my hasty retort about your not responding to my phone  
number query immediately.

Craig Steffen
Wielder of the Grand Unification Theory
From: mlbst25+@pitt.edu (Monica L Boyle)
Newsgroups: alt.overlords
Subject: Re: May the best man win
Date: 15 Apr 92 21:50:46 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

Okay, in reference to the commentary on anarchy and overlords voting for 
themselves.  Wouldn't it be more like an overlord to TAKE over.  And anarchy
is definitely not something overlords want.  Goodness!!!!!!!  We would have
no basis for rule!!!!  Despite the fact that some of us claim immortality, 
we would still not be able to control the lives of all those that refuse to
accept any rule.
Seriously, anarchy is a very nice idea, one that we should practice among 
ourselves (so THERE Mr. Arch Pope of the CHurch of CHaos!!!!), but in 
reference to the mortal masses and the non-overlords, it really wouldn't be 
very wise.  
Read some Hobbes and Locke.  They can explain the reason for an established
society.  Not that I always agree with them (they WERE so mortal), but they
seemed to have a pretty good argument as to why a country like the United 
States needs to be unified under a government, corrupt as it may be.  Man is 
essentially driven to work on an individual level, and if we work only for 
ourselves we are liable to make everything "ours", even another person.  
Being female, I am aware of the dangers of this idea and I just want to 
caution you gentlemen against the consequences of anarchy allowing slavery
to come back into vogue.  


The Goddess of Oddness, 
Mistress of Asimov's Ghost (at least until his wife gets here)
Monica Boyle
mlbst25@pittvms (email)
mlbst25+@pitt.edu (unix, etc.)
Newsgroups: alt.overlords,alt.politics.elections,talk.politics.misc
From: MCMASTER@LSTC2VM.stortek.com (Jim McMaster)
Subject: Re: Perot info by FTP
Organization: StorageTek SW Engineering
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 14:16:48 GMT

In article <1992Apr7.043044.22710@cam.compserv.utas.edu.au>
cjudd@esk (Craig Thomas Judd) writes:
 
>In article <1992Apr7.020413.6534@cam.compserv.utas.edu.au>, rbanfiel@esk ( Raybans, the Wanderer ) writes:
>>
>>In article <1992Apr6.035616.19975@cam.compserv.utas.edu.au> cjudd@esk (Craig Thomas Judd) writes:
>>> [15 LINES OF QUOTED TEXT DELETED]
>>
>>What a shame, looks like if you don't get some subjects soon you will
>>suffer from a deflating ego.
>>
>>One who knows his own worth
>>
>>	Raybans the Wanderer, patron of travellers and wandering spirits
>>		the world over.
>>--
>
>Hmm... My ego is quite healthy at the moment. I have, more or less, contracted
>a number of subjects here and there. Of course, none of them know they are
>worshipping an Official Omnipotent Overlord...
>
>Yours egotistically;
>
>--
>   \/\  "Men, we're going to the Olympics."  The Colonel, Akira (movie)  /\/
>====\/\       "You REFUSE to drink my wine...?"  Kahm, Outlanders       /\/====
>=====\/\      *** WANT ANY MANGA ARTWORK DONE? Just email me! ***      /\/=====
>      \/\   cjudd@esk.compserv.utas.edu.au    a.k.a. Kuro to Shiroi   /\/
 
Could you guys get this drivel out of alt.politics.elections, please?
It has nothing to do with this group, and could easily go to e-mail.
 
Jim McMaster
 
 
Newsgroups: alt.overlords
From: boltonja@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Jerry A. Bolton)
Subject: Re: You are all my subjects... (NOT!)
Reply-To: boltonja@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Jerry A. Bolton)
Trees: Many, all conifers.
Organization: Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 04:30:02 GMT

> } ..> I declare that all of you are my subjects unless you specifically  
say 
> } ..> that you aren't. So there.
> } ..> 
> } ..> Arch-Pope Ringo George I of the United Churches of Chaos

	Gods and Goddesses, I think this clown needs some disillusioning,  
and clearly, I am the one for that.  Sir (?)  You must be jesting.  You  
obviously do not understand the purpose or the internal structure of this  
group.  You, being #139, are not in a position to demand anything from  
anyone but 6 ppl.  #140-146 inclusive.  Everyone else in this group is  
before you in the power structure, and you must worship them as the rest  
of the world will someday worship you.
	As to the purpose of this group, let us carry on meaningful  
conversation, if possible and let this be the end of the flaming.

	Creel,

	Director of Disillusionment/Harvester of Sorrow


--
/* Jerry Bolton, Jr.			boltonja@cs.rose-hulman.edu
	"One person's error is another's data."
        "When putting into memory, remember where you put it." */

#define DISCLAIMER=STD_DISCLAIMER
	/* The opinions above are not necessarily anyone's but mine.*/
From: fsmlm2@acad3.alaska.edu
Newsgroups: alt.overlords
Subject: ARE  NOT!!
Date: 10 Apr 92 07:33:32 GMT
Organization: University of Alaska Fairbanks

In article <DJOHNSON.92Apr9160240@cayenne.gac.edu>, djohnson@cayenne.gac.edu (Daniel P Johnson) writes:
> In article <1992Apr8.204101.1@acad3.alaska.edu> fsmlm2@acad3.alaska.edu writes:
> 
> Excuse me, but:  I can understand you abusing that bum, but I LIVE IN
> MINNESOTA TOO YOU ARCH-FIEND THING PERSON FROM SOMEWHERE I CAN'T SAY
> WITHOUT GETTING DEMERITS FROM GOD.  So you watch it.
> 
> 
> --  Daniel Johnson  djohnson@cayenne.gac.edu  --
>     Grandiose Pontiff of Misplaced Hostility
>                         ^
> 		    [and well-placed, too]
	
	*grin*  and Ian or Iain  thinks we have no
	sense of humour or humor...... :)
Newsgroups: alt.overlords
From: fsmlm2@acad3.alaska.edu
Subject: Yo, Iain (for the Ian that can't spell)
Organization: University of Alaska Fairbanks
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 05:32:21 GMT

In article <4253@pharaoh.cyborg.bt.co.uk>, ian@pharaoh.cyborg.bt.co.uk (Speed Freak) writes:

--   [ lots of trivial bullshit deleted ] --  :)

> Sorry, I didn't realise this group was rec.humour.

	Oh, we cross-post, cross-dress, cross-burn-crosses, cross-people..
	Just ask, we cross our i's and dot our t's.....


> I didn't say I didn't like 'us'.  I just said (in a tongue in cheek way -

	WHAT'S THIS 'US' BUSINESS, KEMOSABI.  I don't even see your name 
	listed....And who ever heard of a god by the name of IAN, sheesh
	you can't even spell it right, it's Iain, anyway.   :)


> where is *your* sense of humour ?) that there is not a lot of intelligent

	You just got my 'cents' of humour.

> usenet   : ian@cyborg.bt.co.uk

--  Be advised above user should be eraticated --

Damn Yankee, Rebel Heart         
aka.... Corwin's Mistress of Mercantile Master of Magic in the Multiverse
nany nany nany nany na nah ...
My names longer than yours ... :)-