From: b645zaw@utarlg.uta.edu (General Jaspers)
Subject: -= HOPE =-  (re: birth and death)
Summary: there is but one INFINITE GAME 
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Keywords: White Ribbon 
Organization: The University of Texas at Arlington
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 13:54:00 GMT

In article <3950@key.COM>, rburns@key.COM (Randy Burns) writes...

Regards RB, I value your criticism.

<30 Dec 92, delivered 5 Jan> rburns@key.COM (Randy Burns) writes:
|
| In article <29DEC199212460728@utarlg.uta.edu>,
| b645zaw@utarlg.uta.edu (General Jubilation T.) writes:
| >

| >And no nation dedicated to military might could long survive the constant
| >stress and drain (sturm und drang) of unceasing overpreparedness. Nor can
| >the current futile attempt to become the protector and caretaker (police-
| >man and socialworker) of =The World=, begin to refuel the effort and sacri-
| >fice needed to <... quietly reverential voice > "SUSTAIN-ECONOMIC-GROWTH."
| >Or in the old times they would say "TO-WORSHIP-MAMMON." Be it War-God or
| >Money-God, bleeding for idols *is* too much to ask -- a non-motivator.
| >
|
|I'd have to say that Mr. Tice is fundamentally correct in this statement.

|I must admit that IMHO he is fundamentally incorrect in calling for the
|birth of a "New Israel" in America. Personally, I mourn the death of
|America. I'd honestly expect that a "New Israel" would be to America,
|as Byzantium was to Ancient Greece-a sad parody of its former self.

Point well made Mr. Burns. I essentially agree. 

Vernard Eller _Christian Anarchy_  p.28+ :

        The history of Christianity traces out rather clearly
        as a continuing contest to determine which arkys, at
        any given time, are actually the holy agents of God.

        As we saw in the previous chapter, Christian arky faith
        got its start in the absolute conviction that the elected
        arkys of God were two -- the Holy Catholic Church and the
        Holy Roman Empire. Any arkys else (be they churches or
        states; be they pagan, heretical Christian, or whatever)
        were enemies of God to be ruthlessly conquered and extermi-
        nated....

        Regarding the arky of civil government, the picture is no
        different. Though it is true that the Constantinian holy
        tandem of church and state has largely dissapeared, that
        was far from marking the end of faith in the divine elec-
        tion of government. Many German Christians, obviously,
        accepted the arky of the Third Reich as being of God. Today,
        many American Christians see the United States of America
        the same way (or else as the still-elect arky we are now
        in process of re-Christianizing).

        Of course, there are also a great many Christians who laugh
        at this phenomenon, but that does not at all mean they have
        deserted arky faith [ie faith in worldly institutions /Sdt].
        They deride the idea that any establishment, rightist govern-
        ments are elect of God -- because they know that election
        already belongs to whatever revolutionary, leftist govern-
        ment talks social justice and reform. I say "talks," because,
        by the time one can get around to making an evaluation on
        the basis of performance, the true believer has already
        committed himself and has no option but to defend his choice.
        Yet, whether of the Right or the Left, the nature of arky
        faith is the same -- the difference being only as to which
        arkys are of God and which of the devil....

        ...The only question is whether there ever has been any
        human arky -- church, state, cause, group, or whatever --
        that has merited recognition as God's chosen instrument
        of human salvation.

        Accordingly, about the entire history we have traced, true
        Christian anarchists feel nothing but incredulity as to how
        we got so far off base. Who can say whether that sequence
        marks a progression or a retrogression, when its heading
        is so far off the gospel in any case? And there is no point
        in bringing accusations of villainy, because obviously
        there were no particular villains involved. "All we,
        (exactly) like sheep, have gone astray-ay-ay-ay-ay-ay."
        And there is nothing to do about it but weep -- or perhaps,
        better, laugh at the rediculousness of it all...as a cover-
        up for our tears.

So let me clarify. In calling for "New Israel," I am making a spiritual
appeal. Those of us who love GOD are a community transcending all time,
borders, faiths, and limitations -- including the passing economic collapse
of old America. We are not a community identifiable by common agreement,
but because we each rest in GOD's care, rather than resist.

The physical(?) Kingdom of GOD is not yet come, and I would not dare to
call for it's establishment -- my faith is that The Messiah will found
it, along with GOD's city, New Jerusalem. I and others of New Israel
patiently wait, anticipating The Coming (or return). (But there is no
reason to think it will be soon, though it may be.)

{ Minor point of metaphysics. I say "New" but believe that Israel and
Jerusalem as we know them are merely shadows of those to come: the
true Israel and the true Jerusalem of GOD, not of man. }

So Mr. Burns, you are correct, I am humanly wrong in referring to "New"
Israel. I could have said "The Birth of ISRAEL in America" instead --
likewise untrue. GOD's love, extends to all, not just those who return
it. Those who turn away likewise still belong in The Community for now.
GOD establishes Israel, and and even beyond the end of time (again my
belief), GOD will love each who is lost. And we each shall miss them
deeply as well. So there is yet much going on, time allowed, and those
of us who love GOD, stand in witness of GOD's grace -- still unfolding.

I suspect I know the impact of making my appeal, on the Jewish community,
and on the Anti-Zionist. Likewise, on the Christian and the Moslem, or
the Secular and the Sects. And certainly, on the Paranoid and the Patriots.
GOD, through the Spirit, may have prompted me to make the appeal. Or it
may be all just my own longing to involve GOD that moved me -- for I
have found nothing to suggest that the American Nation can be saved,
or should be. And I have moved on.

|The real questions for us to ask now are what was great about America
|and what were its weaknesses so that we can preserve its virtues and
|minimize those weaknesses when we start afresh again.

And in anticipation of a fresh start, GOD willing, I'm adding a white
ribbon to the black one I took up last July. The black ribbon was first
for the American spirit held hostage, and then for grieving the loss of
the American Dream, and later my mourning the Death of America itself.

It has taken time to get over it -- I have been crazy-mad during that
time (and possibly still). In becoming involved in American politics,
I have seen the darkest corruption of America -- an institution which is
no nation, but rather an ABOMINATION. When America chose to ignore GOD,
as a nation, and take on GOD's responsibility for the care of the world,
the Spirit departed and Corruption took over. It hurt me deeply to know
that. But the facts are there, only thinly veiled, for anyone who looks
to see. Many of you know this as well, and likewise have suffered in
peering into the pit. Many more of you wisely, avoid becoming involved.
The Government, the "head" of America, is nothing more than a hollow shell.
I'll keep the Black Ribbon as a reminder.

Where then is HOPE? Why would I take up the White Ribbon?? Simple, I am
free of the Corpse of America. I now know GOD again, who lifts me from
despair. And yes, I'll help examine what before made America vital and
strong.

|IMHO, America was among greatest and most just frontier societies to
|have ever existed. Certainly, its face was marred by genocide and
|slavery, but even taking these things into account, the role of America
|played acting to vitalize other English speaking cultures and acting as
|the vanguard of the 19th century's industrial and technological was
|exceedingly positive.

All non-entities RB.

They call *me* white, though there is Commanche blood in me, mixed in with
the Irish and Welch. My ancestors from Ireland came over before America was
founded and moved to Texas before it became a Republic. There is no doubt
many other bloodlines have been folded in and absorbed. My ancestors killed
each other, and yet loved each other. And again during the Civil War, and
again since then. The dead were buried. But *I* am the fruit of their Love.
This is my land, my country, and my people. Consecrated in blood, I claim
them all, the good and the bad. And I share their faith. The Good Lord has
sustained us through matters which have completely destroyed others with
little or no trace. Because we each loved GOD, we found the ways to live
together, to put aside our differences. And we will do so again, one by one.

There is no secret to America. We looked beyond ourselves to another
so totally Other that our differences; in race, creed, class, intellect,
ability, and whatever-else-divides-us, are made totally trivial. And we
learned to love each other as neighbors, family and friends. I doubt
that any shared goal (even the glory of bringing life to the stars),
if devoid of Holy Precense, can serve to keep us together. You now know
my concern.

It is in such awe, that I offer you who will take it a white ribbon
in HOPE -- I have surrendered. Let's try your way and see what happens.
I'll remain with the meek on Earth though, when whoever departs for 
the outer frontier. (Someone's got to clean up. ;) And I like the 
atlantean smell of ocean air. 

RB, tell some more about Ocean-Villages. Seems to me Japan is way out
in front on this one... but the pilgrims were also boat people....

   |
-- J --
   |
   |  Stephen    "Your servant in GOD"
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