HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au (Darren Reed)
Newsgroups: alt.irc
Subject: Re: What shape are you in ?
Date: 19 Nov 92 07:54:24 GMT
Organization: Australian National University
NNTP-Posting-Host: 150.203.76.2

troy@cbme.unsw.EDU.AU (Troy Rollo) writes:
[...]
>Anyway, the reason ircII has a chance to improve in pre8 and beyond is
>that I have always encorouged participation in the development by others,
>and even created a mailing list on which they *could* share ideas.
>(That is, a mailing list for developers only). I only ever rejected
[...]

Well I'm not fortunate enough to be in a situation where I can create
maiiling lists as I please and nor do I think I should run one from
Australia.  Other lists are usually used, at one time irc-dev and also
operlist (no, ircd-three nor ausirc are the right places to send comments
on current server ideas and yes people have used them as such).  Both
are large email lists which I dont control so any suggestions are
usually brought up here and have a good chance of a fair trial.
Unfortunately, operlist isnt developer only and irc-dev no longer has
a 'master'.

[...]
>On the other hand, you feel so threatened by others that you have
>actively discouraged others from participating. You're so scared
>shitless by the thought that others might have found problems
>in your code or be able to fix something you overlooked or couldn't
>fix that you have rejected patches that fix genuine bugs (and do nothing
>other than fix genuine bugs). In fact, if you hadn't been so busy
>defending an ego which was inflated to bursting point, ircd might
>be in far better shape  than it is today.

Really ?

Why then have I been sent and applied patches from multiple people
for various bugs and architecture problems rather than ignore them ?
I haven't seen any new bug reports for quite some time (ie bugs I
haven't already weeded out) which tends to suggest there are very
few left.

2.7.2g is in much better shape than 2.1.5h.

What specifically are you complaining about ?  Care to list the
genuine bugs that I've rejected without reason other than my ego ?

Oh! I know! that R-lines bug that someone from UWS posted...is that
it ?!  wow...I'd found and fixed it ages ago...(along with other
r-line bugs) but was working on 2.8 when I saw and fixed it.
Is that your gripe or do you have others ?  I mean, if there were
real bug reports that I have rejected, shouldn't they be posted
anyway ?  I'm sure others too would be interested in such a list.
If I was so egotistical as you suggest, why would I even admit to
there being bugs ?

avalon

p.s. I found a bug just the other day, for machines using valloc and
     a pagesize > 4k...did you find that yet ?

p.p.s The only thing you will do as a prick is burst your own bubble.
Newsgroups: alt.irc
From: troy@cbme.unsw.EDU.AU (Troy Rollo)
Subject: Re: A new (very simple) bot solution
Organization: University of New South Wales
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 01:24:49 GMT

From article <1992Nov17.140539.1247@fwi.uva.nl>, by bosman@fwi.uva.nl (Cor Bosman):
 
> uuhhm, the issue is that you are proposing to let an account only
> have 1 irc-connection right? Then Trillian starts to say that people

I hope not. If that were done it would be trivil to lock out somebody you
don't like on your host by specifying their userid.

> idea working in the next, umm..say 4 major irc-releases that work. :)

Hmmm... don't make us try to grapple with too many new concepts at once
here. A working ircd... *shudder*...... that would upset the whole system.
--
__________________________________________________________________________
troy@cbme.unsw.EDU.AU	Overworked, overcommited and always multitasking.
Patron of SNUB (Say NO to Unattended Bots)
From: dcohn@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: alt.irc
Subject: Call for alt.irc.bots
Date: 22 Nov 92 21:59:58 CST
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

perhaps we should have an RFC for alt.irc.bots?
	dan
From: avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au (Darren Reed)
Newsgroups: alt.irc
Subject: Re: A new (very simple) bot solution
Date: 18 Nov 92 05:17:33 GMT
Organization: Australian National University
NNTP-Posting-Host: 150.203.76.2

troy@cbme.unsw.EDU.AU (Troy Rollo) writes:

>From article <1992Nov17.140539.1247@fwi.uva.nl>, by bosman@fwi.uva.nl (Cor Bosman):
> 
>> idea working in the next, umm..say 4 major irc-releases that work. :)

>Hmmm... don't make us try to grapple with too many new concepts at once
>here. A working ircd... *shudder*...... that would upset the whole system.

If you want to get like that I could start on IRCII.

I don't know where it would end though except that pre8 will probably
be released in a better state than any of the other pre-releases or
2.1.5h for that matter.

Avalon
Newsgroups: alt.irc
From: tjm@hrt213.brooks.af.mil (Tim Miller)
Subject: Re: And on the subject of Internet bandwidth...
Organization: AL/HRTI, Brooks AFB
	<BEH.92Nov22192521@acs.nntp-read.bu.edu>
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 14:06:57 GMT

On 23 Nov 92 00:25:21 GMT, beh@acs.nntp-read.bu.edu (Bruce Howells) said:

 B> Then I saw the sender.  Nope, can't be important.

	I love you too, Brucey.

 B> Lots of wire...  Lots of gateways... Lots of packets.

	csd.bu.edu happens to be the best balance between hops and ping
times that I've been able to find from this backwater of a network to
*any* irc server.  You find me a closer one as fast, I'll use it.

 B> Good to know that tax money we (or at least those of us enough in
 B> the real world to be paying taxes - and worrying how to pay
 B> taxes...) 

	Oh, come off it.  I pay the same taxes you do, I work more
hours, do more work, and get paid less for it.  Get off your damn high
horse. 

 B>		spend for Internet research...  spend to make sure the US
 B> keeps leading the research effort into (horrors!) useful uses for
 B> technology is going to exactly where it was meant to...

 B> NOT.

	It might interest you to know that I'm researching AI in
training technology, both for the USAF and for use in US public school
system.  In fact, one of our major efforts is the use of computer based
training to help teach fundamental skills of reading, writing, and
science, utilizing AI to model the students and adapt the teaching
techniques.  Personally, I don't know anyone else doing much similar to
our work here.  I'd say that's leading research effort into useful uses
for technology going exactly where it's meant to.  Still want to be
sarcastic?

 B> Hope you're enjoying yourself, Tim...  Just remember next time you
 B> hit a keystroke...  I paid for that Telnet packet.

	You and I *both* know, Bruce, that you *and* I paid for that
telnet packet, and would have paid for it if I used it or not.

 B> Enjoy your afternoon- Bruce Howells, beh@acs.bu.edu
 B> bruce@vmcms.bgs.com Just another software professional.

Enjoy your life- Tim Miller, tjm@hrt213.brooks.af.mil
tjm@csa.bu.edu Just another Computer Science researcher.
Newsgroups: alt.irc
From: spidy@acca.nmsu.edu (Da Spidy-Mon)
Subject: Re: A new (very simple) bot solution
Organization: New Mexico State University
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 19:12:00 GMT

Making it so that only one IRC session is used by only one LOGIN is still a
good idea. I mean, most of the BOTS that are on the net are dead bots. No
good for nothing except for protecting their owner, kicking others, banning,
or simple, stupid mode changes. Many of the so called prgrammers of these 
bots do not know anything past /ON. Many of them have probably never seen
a #define or even know what the hell a #define is...more or less pointers,
queues, arrays, nodes...etc...Ture, IRC has come to a slow decline in its
quality due to unnecessary BOTS and such..If people need protection, MAKE
FRIENDS FOR CRYING OUT LOUD..I mean being in a virtual reality is bad enough.
Then making a set of /ON statements so that one may be secure is eve worse.
Not that I do not have anything against IRC..I, myself, IRC very frequently.
Though, these days, I have become quite disgusted with the numerous "Bots" 
It has gotten so bad that one cannot say more than 3-4 lines in a row w/o 
getting kicked for some oddreason of flooding...GRRR...What the HELL?!?!?
I know that peopel always complain about the bot mess on the NET..but things 
need to be done...and soon...Have a nice days guys...see ya on the net.

				-Spidy
--



^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
[	Da Spidy-Mon                                                          ]
[	Some of these views are mine, mostly mine, Okay, they ARE mine! =-)   ]
[       I am Da Spidy-Mon, hear me crawl!!!                                   ]
[                                                                             ]
[	spidy@rever.nmsu.edu                     /\_/\                        ]
[	aamir@vtssi.vt.edu                 (Bad spider drawing)               ]
[       amir@Turing.ORG                                                       ]
[_____________________________________________________________________________]



Newsgroups: alt.irc
From: tom@bim.itc.univie.ac.at (Tom Kovar)
Subject: Re: Ignorance is part of the Lamb.
Organization: Inst.of Theor.Chemistry,Univ.of Vienna,Austria
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 12:57:38 GMT

gardabr@unix1 (Gard Eggesbo Abrahamsen) writes:
: In fact, I prefer not to ftp at all other than when I need something and I
: don't feel like programming it myself. Also, installing a functioning version
: of vi is not my job. I have tried to persuade the one who does this to compile
: tin on the samson and use emacs instead, but he just says that "something went
: wrong when I tried to compile it on samson, and it won't do any good to try it
: again."

  This statement is the best acknowledgement of all Ruben has written about
you ignorance towards learning to use software.
  It is not necessary to "compile in" any editor. Nearly all newer programmes
of this kind (news readers, mailers,...) ask the value of the environment
variable EDITOR and start the editor listed in it (complete programme path).
Only if this variable does not exist or does not point to any executable
file, the "compiled in" editor is started. So if you want to use your favourite
editor /usr/gardabr/jeg/er/en/dum/bruker, there is no hindrance. Btw - to find
this out, it is enough to scan through "man tin". A matter of 3 minutes.

  So long. Send your flames to no.dritt, v.s.g.
  Hilsen,
									Tom
Newsgroups: alt.irc
From: bosman@fwi.uva.nl (Cor Bosman)
Subject: Re: A new (very simple) bot solution
Organization: FWI, University of Amsterdam
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 21:28:56 GMT

scott@sfi.santafe.edu (Scott D. Yelich) writes:

>> Bad idea, at least the way things work now.
>> Nick collisions are bad enough.  Then we'd have login collisions too.
>> I don't like Bozo here ... I'll just fake his login, run a bot w/ it, and
>> Bozo can't get onto IRC.  Or if I ran a server, I could fake his entire
>> user@host ... could keep anybody off of IRC.

>DUH... you have a password with a nick.  If your password gets known,
>then change it.

You have GOT to be kidding! Who is gonna keep those passwords? 
IT'd definately solve the nickproblems tho. Hell, im gonna
make entries for all possible nicknames I can come up with...or
doYOU wanna limit the number of logins from 1 account too?
Passwords for nicknames...sheesh.... AUSWEISS BITTE!


>> good.  The best solution (the best 'immediate' solution) would be for
>> individual server admins to start a 'No bots' or a 'No auto-opping bots' or
>> a 'No more than one bot run by one person on one channel' policy, to be
>> policed by the the server runners, perhaps with a kill or two to start, and
>> K-lines for those that had been warned repeatedly.  Of course, then they
>> would move to different servers, who may or may not follow a similar policy.

>good luck.

Yeah, good luck, No way that'd ever work. Not every op is into the power trip.
And think about all those mistreated people that feel they have to
revenge themselves after being K: lined. Do we really need that>
You know what usually works for me? its really amazing...
/ignore <bot> all   , whoa! what a concept!

cor
-- 
|bosman@fwi.uva.nl_   //     | Honest Officer , had I known my health      |
|-----------------\\ //AMIGA | stood in jeopardy I would never had lit one.|
|  PE no.1         \\/       |             -MAXIM (of the Hells Angels)-   |
|__________ Quickly Scotty,beam me up.There is no ox..y..ge..._____________|
Newsgroups: alt.irc
From: mkwg9074@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (M. K. Weaver)
Subject: Re: This is the point!! (was bots-how to get rid of them)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 02:40:25 GMT

avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au (Darren Reed) writes:

>>I don't know if the people advocating more bots are just ignorant of what
>>is going on, or if they are just praying for the downfall of the irc
>>network.

	God forbid...I don't think we are advocating more
	bots. I think the main advocating had been to make
	an alt.irc.bot and for the discussion of the future
	and useful purpose of bots.

	I guess I am considered someone who advocates bots.
	But I do think I have been clear on the type of bots
	I advocate. Those who/which further the expressiveness of
	people. 

	Ever sit around a card table while some friends are
	playing cards. There is a type of talk and fun at 
	this setting unlike any other setting <THANKS COR>

	IRC lends the possiblity for people to gather together
	to discuss similar interests. With certain bots it
	also allows for people to converse while participating
	in similar activities or even mutual activities such
	as playing Uno. <UNO! RULES!> I am sure there are other
	games that can be added. Some one has been asking for
	help with starting a game of Diplomacy <sp>. HAS ANYONE
	HELPED THIS PERSON? 

	It has been pointed out that there are bot authors that
	have good intentions and that there are bot authors that
	have had bad intentions. Several ideas have been thrown
	out about what do do about all these bots... I don't know
	where this is going to end. I just hope that people 
	who are not concerned with the communication that IRC 
	allows for will just find another place to play. I don't
	wish them ill, I don't wish for them to not be able to
	enjoy themselves in their chosen way, I just wish they
	would exercise the respect and responsibility that all
	humans are capable of...since we know the bots can't.

	bfn,
	Monica

-- 
"When you sit with a nice girl for two hours, you think it is only a minute.
But when you sit on a hot stove for a minute, you think it's two hours.
THAT'S RELATIVITY." (Albert Einstein)
                 "My name is Monica. Got a minute?"
Newsgroups: alt.irc
From: mkwg9074@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (M. K. Weaver)
Subject: Re: Canadians take note
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 07:12:21 GMT
Keywords: tres amusant

Include original article? Not on your life...

	okay so it was funny...
	okay so it was long..

	I guess that makes it long and funny.
	Is that how they grow them in australia?

	bfn
	Monica

	<shakes her head in disbelief>
-- 
"When you sit with a nice girl for two hours, you think it is only a minute.
But when you sit on a hot stove for a minute, you think it's two hours.
THAT'S RELATIVITY." (Albert Einstein)
                 "My name is Monica. Got a minute?"
From: dougmc@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Doug McLaren)
Newsgroups: alt.irc
Subject: Call for alt.irc.flame
Date: 21 Nov 92 05:19:17 GMT
Organization: Doug's House of Disco

I think the time has come (it came a long time ago ...)
alt.irc.flame!

-- 
----------------------- \  Zippy says:
Doug McLaren,            \  Remember, in 2039, MOUSSE & PASTA will be available
DemoN on IRC              \  ONLY by prescription!!
dougmc@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu  \
-------------------------- /
From: avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au (Darren Reed)
Newsgroups: alt.irc
Subject: Re: Global Birthday Greetings
Date: 18 Nov 92 21:57:41 GMT
Organization: Australian National University
NNTP-Posting-Host: 150.203.76.2

titus@coombs.anu.edu.au (titus chiu) writes:

>avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au (Darren Reed) writes:
>>
>>There are more clients from *.edu servers/hosts at most any time of
>>day than there are servers in total.  Consider, there are at least 50
>>servers which match *.edu and one of those has (at times) had one tenth
>>of the total number of clients on IRC attached to it.

>i would have thought that a global matching $*.edu would just mean it uses
>the bandwidth of sending to all the servers in *.edu (assuming that client
>to server connections dont use much bandwidth at all which can be false
>at times) so generally, what troy said is correct.

Umm...not quite.  People in the USA don't always have a server in the same
city to connect their client to and sometimes not even the same state.
(And in most cases this is how it should be!).

Not even in an ideal situation would Troy have been correct.  The bandwidth
needs to come from somewhere - except in an ideal setup its less(?)
noticeable since all clients are on local links.  And thats forgetting
anyone who might be connected to a *.edu server from overseas...not an
uncommon event.

avalon
From: avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au (Darren Reed)
Newsgroups: alt.irc
Subject: Re: Avalon arrested!
Date: 17 Nov 92 11:25:50 GMT
Organization: Australian National University
NNTP-Posting-Host: 150.203.76.2

Interesting article.

You managed to mix and match up enough gunk to not only confuse me but
doubtlessly confuse and mislead others.  It was, however, consistant
with what the media typically churn out.  Take that as you wish.

Keep up the good work - what can we expect next from the slime works ?

Something else to slander the next person who whips you in a flame war
on alt.irc ?  Must take a fair amount of boredom to write that sort of
crap.

Oh, for those who dont get it, it was based on a true event but the
posters seem to be more intent on abusing usenet as a place to slander
people rather than use it constructively.  For those who are in doubt,
the AO then went ahead and poised its finger above the lunch button
(for any remaining nukes) and gave us all an ultimatium - do as he
demanded or be nuked.  The result of all these nukes and whatever else
gives you what is now...but obviously the AO isn't satisfied and wants
more blood to satisfy their greedy needs.

I just wonder why I managed to forget to turn off the video and forget
to nuke the arresting officer...ah well....next time...pity there won't
be a next time (you know, all the people nuked already :-/).

If anyone feels further need to follow up to this then do it via
email if you have the decency you claim to you have.

avalon
Newsgroups: alt.irc
From: mkwg9074@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (M. K. Weaver)
Subject: Re: An idea!
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 09:33:10 GMT
Keywords: Monica for president!

dms50304@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Darkman) writes:

>Wow Monica, you must really tired after all those posts.  Wow!
>I hereby suggested a new newsgroup:

>	alt.fan.monica.weaver

	Nah....I have all the fan I need...[he knows who he is]

>Just think about it.  Everyone can talk about equal rights for bots (*tries
>to hold back laughter*) and use <>'s and everything!  Sorry for the stab
>there Monica, but it had to be done.  I'm in one of those wierd moods again.

	<holds hand on arm> Aw...you cut me you cut me...how am I going
	to get the blood out of this white sweater. :)

>-- 
>--- Daryn Sharp   Darkman@uiuc.edu

	Daryn....you really should try sleeping baby... :)
	Though sleep deprivation becomes you, you get so
	funny. :) <waves to the Darkman> See you on msgs. 

-- 
"When you sit with a nice girl for two hours, you think it is only a minute.
But when you sit on a hot stove for a minute, you think it's two hours.
THAT'S RELATIVITY." (Albert Einstein)
                 "My name is Monica. Got a minute?"
Newsgroups: alt.irc
From: Dweiss@chiba.hughes.american.edu (Dan Weiss )
Subject: This is the point!! (was bots-how to get rid of them)
Followup-To: alt.irc
Organization: Chiba City
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 11:41:33 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.065607.11809@netcom.com>, pdh@netcom.com (Phil Howard
) wrote:
 
> #sanctuary JeffBot14 H   jdportwi@maxwell3.ee.mtu.edu (2 !id Bot)
> #sanctuary JeffBot13 H   jdportwi@maxwell3.ee.mtu.edu (2 !id Bot)
> #sanctuary JeffBot20 H   jdportwi@maxwell3.ee.mtu.edu (2 !id Bot)
> #sanctuary JeffBot17 H   jdportwi@maxwell3.ee.mtu.edu (2 !id Bot)
> #sanctuary JeffBot15 H   jdportwi@maxwell3.ee.mtu.edu (2 !id Bot)
> #sanctuary JeffBot12 H   jdportwi@maxwell3.ee.mtu.edu (2 !id Bot)

[The rest of the 20 bots deleted]

I don't know if the people advocating more bots are just ignorant of what
is going on, or if they are just praying for the downfall of the irc
network.

Channels like #sanctuary are becomming more and more frequent.  As more
users aquire these forking attack bots (I suspect that is what the Jeffbots
are), we will see the next phase in the irc.bot.arms.race.  

I have no idea what would happen to the irc if every user decided to login
21 times simultaniously.  I have asked several times for info on the burden
of bots, but no one seems to know or care.

IRCops who hang on #tw and don't see other channels: join #hottub one
night.  You will see battling bots fly into +b loops, banning each other in
every way imaginable (+bbb lamer@lamer l*a*m*e*r@lamer...etc.).  You will
see some users use 20-30 bots, all /msging at once, to flood other bots off
the irc.  

I know, I know, you don't care what the hell happens on #hottub.  No one
owns a channel...leave if you dont like it...all that ircop faq stuff. 
Well, I am going to ask one more time:

When the bots wars between opposing sides of 20 or more bots begin,
employing multiple +bs, how long will this network survive?  
-------------------------
Dan Weiss
Washington DC
Dweiss@chiba.hughes.american.edu
Dweiss@auvm.american.edu
Flammable@IRC
Newsgroups: alt.irc
From: tjm@hrt213.brooks.af.mil (Tim Miller)
Subject: Re: Avalog arrested....
Organization: AL/HRTI, Brooks AFB
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 13:41:19 GMT

On 20 Nov 92 04:15:33 GMT, dalewis@acsu.buffalo.edu (Douglas A. Lewis) said:

 D> I wish somebody would shut you up.. or sue you for defemation of
 D> character. I thought it was funny, and I'm sure a lot of other
 D> people did to.. but Avalon obviously did not want it posted. If you
 D> had some sense of common decency, you wouldn't have reposted it. I
 D> guess that is asking too much of you though..

	That's as may be, but it doesn't excuse cancelling of someone
else's article.

	Speaking of which, does he have any proof of that allegation?

-- Cerebus <tjm@hrt213.brooks.af.mil>
"Happiness is a good cheesecake."
From: mark@coombs.anu.edu.au (Mark)
Newsgroups: alt.irc
Subject: Re: A new (very simple) bot solution
Date: 19 Nov 92 13:28:55 GMT
Organization: Australian National University
NNTP-Posting-Host: 150.203.76.2
Organisation: Wassat?!

troy@cbme.unsw.EDU.AU (Troy Rollo) writes:

>"I am that prick"

Hear, hear.  :)
He was right tho about anal-log.

Mark
Newsgroups: alt.irc
From: machin@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Dave Machin)
Subject: Need Access Help
Organization: Purdue University
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 04:25:52 GMT

Need help gaining access to IRC.  Have access through Mindvox but its
too slow.  How can I get normal access.  Thanks for your time,

Dave Machin
machin@mentor.cc.purdue.edu

Newsgroups: alt.irc