HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: leej@sgi.com (Lee Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
Subject: Re: "Safety violations..." continuation...
Date: 15 Oct 92 18:08:54 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: diver.asd.sgi.com

In article <1992Oct13.145219.5544@cattnts.canada.ncr.com> craig@cattnts.canada.ncr.com (Craig Campbell) writes:
>
>I would disagree here.  I am now curious to know the results of this.
>Will our fledgling instructor have his wings clipped?
>Will NAUI investigate?
>Can one pissed off instructor prevent an almost instructor from becoming
>a full instructor on such intangeble grounds as the Loved Ones Rule?  (I
>would hope that it would take more than one person to make that decision.)

Craig - I doubt that a single instructor, not involved in the ITC (if I 
understand correctly) could veto the final certification of a new 
instructor.  I sure hope it's not that simple.  

I too would like to know the eventual outcome.  Like you said - the 
other instructor's name should be kept completely out of this, at LEAST
until the final decision is in.  If the instructor is not found guilty of 
standards violations, his/her name should not appear here.

>My opinion:  NAUI should be informed (inevitable now, I suspect), and should
>	    investigate.
> [this paragraph moved up some - LFJ]

You'll notice that I encouraged the fellow to contact NAUI.  This has 
clearly gone beyond the point where it can be resolved between the two
people, and it is also clearly NAUI's job to figure out what's going on and
do the "right thing". 

My point is that having the argument here will generate lots of heat and 
likely not much light.  

>	
>I am interested in how well NAUI responds.  Hopefully we (NAUI) will perform
>well under adversity.

Me too.  For sure.

Regards, Lee
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
From: "doug hook" <doug.hook@canrem.com>
Subject: strobes
Reply-To: "doug hook" <doug.hook@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: rec
Date: 16 Oct 92 16:23:17 EST

MWK>    Good reviews for Ikelite 150 and 225.
   >    Good reviews for B&H and Adorama (mail order places).

MWK>    Bad reviews for Helix and Morris.

MWK> No one else does underwater photography?
   > Has anyone ever used an Ikelite Ai or Ai/n and are willing to tell
   > me what they think of it?

I can second the vote for the Ikelite 150. I rented one for my trip to
Bonaire a couple of weeks ago. The results were stunning. The field of
the strobe is nice and flat, so perfect aim is not critical. The whole
rig using the 150, an Ikelite 150, and Nikonos V was only slightly
negativly bouyant. Much easier to dive with than the same camera with a
Nikonos 103 strobe and Nikonos bracket.

Only bad point is that the bracket is barely strong enough for the
weight of the strobe out of water. It made me very cautious carrying it
all to the boat and back.

Doug Hook
doug.hook@canrem.com

---
  OLX 2.2  Beam me up Scotty. This isn't the men's room.
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
From: cj@mentor.dk (Claus Jensen)
Subject: World PADI compatibility
Organization: Mentor Informatik A/S, Denmark
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 08:44:31 GMT

I have just taken the PADI Open Water Diver certificate.
One of the issues that counts in favour of the PADI certificate as opposed
to many other types of certificates, is that the contents of the courses
(or at least of the OWD-course) is supposed to be alike all over the world.
This, in turn, should make it easier to rent equipment, go on boat-dives,
take new courses in foreign places etc, since the dive-leader or instructor
always know what your skills are.

All very good in theory, but how about this 'scary' story from the reality, 
which was told to me by the divemaster (Thomas) on the course.

He once went on a boat-dive in Australia (at that time he was 'only' rescue
diver), and was assigned an american dive-partner (lets call him Joe, it's
such a nice short name to write :-)) that had an Advanced OWD certificate.
As Thomas suggested that they should plan their dive Joe looked somewhat
puzzled. "What do you mean by planning the dive" he asked. 
Thomas, allready a bit concerned, explained that he meant planning depths,
divetime and so on. Joe said that it was ok with him, and they started
planning the dive. It soon, however, became clear that Joe had almost no
experience with the RDP-table or any other dive-table.
They agreed on a max depth of 18 meters and informed the dive-leader about it.
As they were diving, not one single time, did Joe look where Thomas were, 
but just swimmed along minding his own business.
As they were on 18 meters Joe saw something a little further down, and went
down to see what it whas (I don't know what it was btw :-) ). So, ignoring
the plan Joe went down some 4-5 meters below the max depth.
Now the good stuff comes...
As they went up again the boat had a safety-stop bar at 5 meters. They
stopped here, and Joe knowing he had gone too deep took his depthmeter 
(which was of the simple type with a needle that shows the depth, and a
second needle that show the max depth), and with his knife moved the
max depth needle back to the planned 18 meters so the dive leader would not
see he had gone too deep. 
Thomas refused to dive with him again, and later other divers did the same
and he was suspended from diving from that boat, but before that had had gone
on a nightdive, which he had also never tried before, although it is a 
demanded part of an AOWD course.

Now I'd like to know if there is a tendency that some PADI diving centers are
too sloppy with their training in order to make more money.
If this is so what happened to the world PADI compatibility of courses?
Does anyone have any experiences or comments on this?

-- 
|    Claus Jensen                                                              |
|    Mentor Informatik                                                         |
|    Fredens Torv 6                                   Phone : +45 86 20 13 33  |
|    DK-8000 Aarhus C                                 E-mail: cj@mentor.dk     |
From: jeanb@ldgo.columbia.edu (Jean Beagan)
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
Subject: Dolphin Experience
Keywords: dolphins, snorkelling
Date: 16 Oct 92 17:09:15 GMT
Organization: Lamont-Doherty Geological Observatory

Can anyone help me?
I recall reading an article from this newsgroup about a week or so ago
about a place, I believe in the Bahamas, where you can swim, snorkel or
dive with dolphins. I don't remember the exact name, but I thought it
was something like the "DOLPHIN ENCOUNTER". The article had included
a toll free number that one could call to obtain additional information.
If you have heard about this place or any others, specifically in
Cozumel, Grand Caymans, Jamaica or the Bahamas, can you please respond
through the newsgroup.
Thank you.
From: costa@opie.asd.sgi.com (Amy Costa)
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
Subject: Re: regulator reccomendations?
Date: 17 Oct 1992 00:02:09 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics Inc., Mountain View, CA
Distribution: world
Reply-To: costa@opie.asd.sgi.com (Amy Costa)
NNTP-Posting-Host: opie.asd.sgi.com

In article <1992Oct16.215148.632@zia.aoc.nrao.edu>,
troberts@zia.aoc.nrao.edu (Timothy Roberts) writes:
|> 
|> 
|> >>In article <591@tsw.UUCP>, ray@tsw.UUCP (Ray Izumi) writes:
|> >>>After using a Scubapro G250 and an Oceanic reg, I finally settled on the
|> >>>Poseidon Cyklon because: <more deleted>
|> 
|> In article <1992Oct15.144713.15827@eng.ufl.edu>
fortner@hal.eel.ufl.edu (Dave Fortner) writes:>
|> >I personally us the Scubapro G250/MkX and love it. I would suggest that
|> >you contact Timothy Roberts (troberts@NRAO.edu) he is compiling a
|> >list... <more deleted>
|> 
|> Gentlemen,
|> 	As I have used every regulator/first stage that currently is
|> for sale, I have developed personal opinions.  However, I will
|> moderate them and give a quick glimpse into the Regulator database.
|> 
|> 1) Scubapro G250/mkX - very easy breathing, very light, expensive as
|> hell to buy and service.  The Cadillac of regulators for the image
|> conscious.
|> 


(Much deleted, including the cute signature ....)

Timothy,

This is all very nice.  Please be aware that there are women who
read this news group.  You may call us ladies if you prefer.

Amy
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
From: billp@sco.COM (Jerque Clumsoe)
Subject: Re: Women and doubles
Organization: The Santa Cruz Operation, Inc.
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 19:44:50 GMT


In article <13OCT199219521791@watson.bms.com> ram@watson.bms.com (Gena Ram) writes:
>
>I have a problem that maybe someone can help me with.  I have recently 
>returned from a 4 day live aboard where I was using double 72's and a super 
>pony.  I don't usually use that many tanks and was wondering if any women out 
>there dive with doubles.  My problem is that climbing the ladder is extremly 
>difficult due to the fact that women have less upper body strength than men.  
>The current was a slight bit choppy and because I was unstable, I sustained 
>many large and ugly bruises (not to mention painful).  I do not have a problem 
>on deck or in the water, it is that lousy ladder climb.  The boat captain 
>suggested reaching up high on the ladder and pulling my body up without 
>putting my feet on the rungs (yeah right!)  Taking off my gear in the water is 
>not an option, as none of the boats I've ever dived on allow this (I guess if 
>you can"t handle it, you shouldn't use it?!)
>
>I need any tips on technique 
>anyone has to offer.
>

Well Gena, I'm not sure why you're even using doubles? I think you'd
be better off using a large single cylinder. With the amount of drag
those doubles have, you'll probably have close to the same bottom time.
I'm curious to why you're using doubles and why they won't let you
take off any gear in the water? 

Anyway, pretty hard to do a pull up with those doubles on your back. 
Interesting that they won't let you take off any gear in the water.
Seems that you could hang your doubles off on a rope and have somebody
help you haul it up once you get topside. Also, If your tank backpack 
and BC are a integrated unit, I would just float the whole thing with 
your buddy holding on to it till you get some help. The only other
suggestion I may offer is to have your buddy tie a rope to your tanks
while you're in the water. Have him/her go up first and then she/he
can help you up by relieving you of some of the weight of your cylinders
by pulling up on the rope as you come up the ladder. It should also
give you some stability till you get topside. But, if you really need
that much air, I'd recommend a large single tank like a 120. Hope this
helps.


-mr.billp@sco.com

NAUI #11211


-- 


    "What's all this gear for?" He asked. "For Scuba Diving," I told him.
    "Scuba Diving?" He looked outside at the snow, then back at me.
    "Wait, don't tell me. You're from California, right?"
From: pky@fmg.bt.co.uk (Pete Young)
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
Subject: Re: Preferred Compass and Console configuration
Date: 8 Oct 92 14:50:30 GMT
Organization: British Telecom
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

Larisa Stephan (larisa@tcville.edsg.hac.com) wrote:
: Somebody asked about the design of the Oceanic Navcon console, which
: contains a depth gauge, compass, and SPG.

If you actually want to use the compass to navigate around on the bottom, you
need to be able to hold it out straight in front of you at arms length (or as
far away as the visibility will allow).

To me, that means the last place you want your compass is in the console.
You'd need  4 feet of console hose to drag around on the bottom or get
wedged in some wreck. And what do you do if you need to take a quick
bearing on a buoy or shore object from the dive boat? 

I prefer to wear mine on my wrist, or on a length of line in a stab
jacket pocket.

-- 
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Pete Young        	  pky@fmg.bt.co.uk        Phone +44 473 227151
 "Cast your bread upon the waters and you will get back... soggy bread"  
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
From: dave@hpdstma.ptp.hp.com (Dave Waller)
Subject: Re: Bechaut Alladen
Organization: Hewlett Packard
Distribution: na,local
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 16:55:11 GMT

In article <qp08l5g@twilight.wpd.sgi.com>, story@sgi.com (David (Duis) Story) writes:
|> 
|> The bottom line is that you still need a consistent voltmeter.

Yes, and fortunately, the Delphi has a voltmeter built in. If I power the
puppy up and find that it reads less than 8V when diving in cold water,
I replace the battery with a fresh one.

No other dive computer that I'm aware of has this feature (save the other
Orca machines). It is extremely useful.

-- 
Dave Waller
YMCA Instructor
From: U33720@uicvm.uic.edu (Fardad)
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
Subject: Rohtan dive trip price?!!
Date: 13 Oct 92 01:04:14 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago


  A friend of mine just got back from a trip to ROHTAN(spelling?)

 Her expenses amazes me: she paid 650.00  for


                       - roundtrip xportation(air)
                       - all meals
                       - hotel
                       - complete gear rental
                    for 7days.
  Is this the going rate? Or she had a good deal?

     Does anyone out there know how one can find deals like this?

fardad
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
From: davidw@cie.uoregon.edu (David Weingarten)
Subject: Safety/Standards Violations
Organization: University of Oregon Campus Information Exchange
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 92 08:05:27 GMT

Dammit.  I just wrote a 2-3 page message and accidentally deleted it.
Oh, well, here it is again.

I have a combined ethics/safety question for you all, especially
NAUI Instructors.

I am a newly certified NAUI Instructor (my provisional certification
will be satisfied by the two classes I am currently assisting), and
am assisting an instructor who I feel is flagrantly violating standards.
Even if she's not violating standards, the classes are REALLY unsafe.

Three major violations during our pool session today:  1) there were at
least two students at the bottom of the pool before she was even suited
up, 2) for the students' first deep-water mask clearing, she: a) was not
within reach of them and b) had them do it all at one time, 3) during
their first regulator ditch & recovery, she had them all do it at one
time.  One student couldn't recover his regulator.  She managed to get
to him, but what if three students had had that same (very common)
problem at the same time?

In addition, she had both me (a post-ITC for-all-practical-purposes instructor)
and three other assistants, who she couldn't utilize worth s**t.  I didn't
wait for her to get organized, I just took two or three students at a 
time and taught them myself.  I don't even know if she noticed.

Her classroom sessions are disorganized and (I feel) incomplete, but at
least the information is accurate.  I brought the organization to her
attention, and she at least organized tonight's class a little better.
When I brought to her attention that she had violated standards in the
pool (I did this AFTER all the students were gone), she sounded defensive
and said she would call NAUI to see if they were actually standards
violations.  That's fine with me, but it's not really the point.  Following
the standards -- and surpassing them -- is for the safety of your students,
not just because it's some dumb rule.

Anyway, my two questions, particularly directed at NAUI Instructors 
(but please respond even if you're not in that category), are: 1) am *I*
at legal risk if I continue to assist this class and 2) should I report
her to NAUI if the safety of the class does not improve in the last two
sessions?

Thanks in advance,
		David Weingarten,
		NAUI DM #D7355,
		post-ITC-pretty-damn-close-to-being-an-independant-
			NAUI-Instructor-but-not-quite.  

OOoo.. 0-)
From: jms@carat.arizona.edu (A virtually vegetal non-entity)
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
Subject: Re: Anybody been to Puerto Penasco?
Date: 12 Oct 92 18:16:00 GMT
 .es.com><7OCT199209172939@carat.arizona.edu> <RHOUSTON.92Oct8131251@peoa.glacier.sim.es.com>
Reply-To: jms@Arizona.EDU
Distribution: world,local
Organization: University of Arizona MIS Department - Mosaic Group
X-Lunar-Date: 6 days, 18 hours, 31 minutes since the first quarter of the moon
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.50A

In article <RHOUSTON.92Oct8131251@peoa.glacier.sim.es.com>, rhouston@glacier.sim.es.com (Richard Houstan) writes...
>In article <7OCT199209172939@carat.arizona.edu> jms@carat.arizona.edu (A virtually vegetal non-entity) writes:
> 
>Which shop in Tucson would you recommend and how far in advance do you need to 
>organize the trip?
> 

I work with three shops and am satisfied with all three:

	Cap'n Daves 602-32-SCUBA
	The Dive Shop 602-326-2424
	Desert Divers 602-887-2822

Some keywords you should be aware of:

"Bravo" trip: can't be beat.  The Bravo is a fast liveaboard, and getting
in on a Bravo trip is a great experience.  Bravo trips are booked way in
advance.

"Duque" trip: Ummm. They do have slower boats, but usually not with
engines on them.  However, Duque is popular with the Desert Dolphins (get
a free copy of their newsletter, "Porpoise Poop") because it's so cheap.

Cortez Explorer:  This boat is so fast, it goes out to San Pedro twice a day.
Which means that for a half-day each day, unless you make other arrangements,
you're stuck in a hotel in San Carlos or Guaymas.  If you can get on a Cortez
Explorer trip, make sure you prepare for additional beach diving.

Himalaya Beach:  Traditional camping spot for beach diving about 30
miles north of San Carlos.  Not so easy to get to, but most shops do camping
trips there and run inflatables out to lots of great spots (try White Rock
for some of the best diving around).  Cheap, but be careful about weather:
it can be wicked hot.

Joel M Snyder, 1103 E Spring Street, Tucson, AZ, 85719 
Phone: 602.882.4094 (voice) .4095 (FAX) .4093 (data)
BITNET: jms@Arizona  Internet: jms@arizona.edu  SPAN: 47541::telcom::jms
Yow!  Are we laid back yet?
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
From: spindler@rcf.rsmas.miami.edu
Subject: Re: regulator reccomendations?
Reply-To: spindler@rcf.rsmas.miami.edu
Organization: RSMAS
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 92 21:26:01 GMT

In article <591@tsw.UUCP>, ray@tsw.UUCP (Ray Izumi) writes:
>After using a Scubapro G250 and an Oceanic reg, I finally settled on the
>Poseidon Cyklon because:
>
>1) Exhaust vents to the side - doesn't get in your face.
>2) It breathes as easy at 185' as it does at the surface.
>3) Works well at any angle, even upside down.
>4) Howard Hall uses one. This guy dives every day, so he's had some experience.
>   Not only HH, but you'll find most pro divers use Poseidons.
>5) Poseidon pays for parts for annual service, saving about $50 / year.
                                                             ^^^^

Is $50 / year typical of the annual reg overhaul costs for a Poseidon?  I
currently dive with the ScubaPro G250/MkV and the annual parts cost is about 5
dollars (and also paid for by ScubaPro).  I was considering Poseidon for my
next reg, so I would be very appreciative of any information regarding overhaul
costs (parts + labor) for these regulators.

----
Todd Spindler                                  
TSpindler@rsmas.miami.edu                 RSMAS/MPO  University of Miami
From: adam@cbmcats.UUCP (Adam Keith Levin-Delson)
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
Subject: Diving in Bonaire soon?  Read this first.
Date: 9 Oct 92 18:59:25 GMT
Organization: Commodore Applications and Technical Support

No, nothing here to scare you away.  Though I found that a
Nurse shark can frighten you even in Death!  I just
got back from a week-long stay at the Black Durgon Inn.
While there I did a night dive in the town harbor.  Some
fishermen must have caught the shark, gutted it and thrown
the head and entrails off the pier.  I'm tooling along,
sweeping my flashlight's beam from side to side when I
find myself face to face with a Nurse shark.  Or at least
its head.  The "expression" is the same as that of a live
shark making it all the more spooky.

The water is warm (~85F) and that can be a relief from the
air temps (80-90F) and high humidity during the hours
around noon.  The visibility is a little low (40-80')
due to the rains they had there recently.  But the water's
calm and there's plenty of sea life.

Of the three restaurants we ate at (Paul's, Zeezicht and
Green Parrot, the latter was the best).


Sadly, I lost something near and dear to me on the last
dive we did.  If you'll be diving there in the near future
(October to January) contact me before you go; I'm offering
a reward.


Adam Levin-Delson  CATS - Commodore Applications and Technical Support
UUCP: {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!adam domain: adam@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com
BIX: aklevin   mail: 1200 Wilson Drive / West Chester, PA 19380 USA
voice: +1 215.431-9392(w)   fax: +1 215.429-0643
          215.696-6229(h)
Adam Levin-Delson  CATS - Commodore Applications and Technical Support
UUCP: {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!adam domain: adam@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com
BIX: aklevin   mail: 1200 Wilson Drive / West Chester, PA 19380 USA
voice: +1 215.431-9180   fax: +1 215.429-0643
From: boykin@gte.com (Joseph Boykin)
Newsgroups: rec.scuba
Subject: Re: World PADI compatibility
Date: 15 Oct 92 20:48:53 GMT
Reply-To: boykin@gte.com
Organization: GTE Laboratories

In article <1992Oct15.084431.22606@mentor.dk>, cj@mentor.dk (Claus Jensen) writes:
|> I have just taken the PADI Open Water Diver certificate.
|> One of the issues that counts in favour of the PADI certificate as opposed
|> to many other types of certificates, is that the contents of the courses
|> (or at least of the OWD-course) is supposed to be alike all over the world.

	...
|> All very good in theory, but how about this 'scary' story from the reality, 
|> which was told to me by the divemaster (Thomas) on the course.
	...
|> Now I'd like to know if there is a tendency that some PADI diving centers are
|> too sloppy with their training in order to make more money.
|> If this is so what happened to the world PADI compatibility of courses?
|> Does anyone have any experiences or comments on this?

Without talking to 'Joe' and trying to get at the truth it's impossible
to say what happened in that particular instance.  Maybe he forgot
everything he learned.  Maybe he's one of those "macho divers" who
says "I'll do it my way".  Maybe he got a lousy instructor.  Who knows?

There is certainly no tendency by PADI instructors to be sloppy.
At least, no more than any other instructor from any other certifying
agency.  People are people, some instructors are good, some suck.
As has been said in this group numerous times, the most important
consideration is the instructor, not the certifying agency.

I remember teaching an Advanced Open Water course where someone certified
within the past year and had about 25 logged dives could barely swim.
he didn't know/remember anything about the tables, tried to overweight
himself by about 20lbs, didn't know how to put a weight belt back
on on the surface, etc. etc.  He had a PADI OW card.  Turns out
the dive shop he got it from primarily taught via YMCA rules and
just "handed out" PADI cards to anyone who wanted one.  (I have
nothing generically against the Y, but the folks around here
are, shall we say "not good"). I filed a complaint with PADI.  Mine
joined a bunch of others and disciplinary action was taken.

Unfortunately, it happens.  If you want to take a course, talk
to the instructor first.  If you're diving with someone who you
do not feel is competent and/or safe, don't dive with them.

Joe Boykin
PADI Instructor
Newsgroups: rec.scuba