From: MCMASTER@LSTC2VM.stortek.com
Subject: Re: Andre Marrou on Larry King
Organization: StorageTek SW Engineering
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 16:06:55 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.083814.5081@genie.slhs.udel.edu>
starr@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Tim Starr) writes:
 
>In article <168318A82.MCMASTER@LSTC2VM.stortek.com> MCMASTER@LSTC2VM.stortek.com writes:
>}>
>}Right....just allow slumlords to build uninspected firetraps, and all
>}will be well.  The Libertarians in action.
>
>Pay attention.  We've been arguing why the free market will provide affordable
>quality housing if permitted.
>
So far you have only argued the housing would be cheaper, and that
homeless people should have the opportunity to live in unsafe housing
if they so desire.  I have yet to see the word "quality" until this
post.  Where exactly is the incentive for the builder to spend money on
quality?  Remember, you have been talking about housing for the
extremely poor.  Also, your lack of standards would presumably apply to
your house and mine as well.  I would rather my kids did not live in a
firetrap.
 
>}the Libertarians have some good ideas, especially in the field of civil
>}liberties.  You do, however have a hard time with economics.
>
>Pfaw!  We have a hard time with economics?!?  We've got 5 Nobel Prize winning
>economists in our camp.  How many are in yours?  We've got Ludwig Von Mises,
>who was the only one who predicted the Great Depression, Friedrich Hayek,
>who went head to head with Keynes in the London School, and won him over to
>the argument of "The Road To Serfdom"...
>
So you have two economists....big deal.  It just proves that economists
can be found to support any position.  It proves nothing.
 
>I spent 2 months on the road for the LP at colleges, administering a simple,
>10-question quiz, 5 of which focused on economics.  Most of the people who
>took it admitted of their own initiative that they knew next to nothing about
>economics - even econ majors!  Many thought protectionism worked, which is
>the one thing the most economists agree upon as being false!  From little
>formal economic study ("Economics in One Lesson," a great book by Henry Hazlitt)
>and what I managed to pick up elsewhere, I knew more about it than most of
>the people I ran into, and still do know more than most of the people I
>run into today.
>
Good for you.  What do you know about the problem of the commons?  And
how do Libertarians believe in treating it?  Just because the majority
of people are ignorant of economics does not mean you have all the
answers.
 
>You have no idea of what you're talking about.  That's quite clear.
>
Your opinion...and I care very little what you think.
 
>}I personally believe Libertarians are hopeless, but that is not what I
>}said in my post.  Saying that logical arguments are useless is not
>}necessarily the same thing.  You start from a Libertarian set of
>}premises, from which you draw conclusions.  I start from a different
>}set that leads to different conclusions.  Neither of us has the
>}slightest chance of being convinced by the other.
>
>This is the position that the libertarian philosopher W.W. Bartley III
>called the "justificationist" one.  If you were familiar with libertarian
>thought, you might have a chance of knowing this.  This position is that
>foundationl premises are necessarily arbitrary, and not subject to any sort
>of justification whatsoever.
>
>However, justification of premises is possible.  Just because you may be
>ignorant of the justification of libertarian premises or your own doesn't
>mean that there is none possible.  Care to try to criticize ours or defend
>your own?
>
No...because there is no point.  Your justifications of your premises
is necessarily based on those premises.  You would reject any attempt
to discredit your premises.  The result is not worth the effort.
 
>}I class Libertarians more in the mold of Fundamentalist Christians.
>}You are true believers, and arguing with you is a waste of time.  The
>}Libertarian platform is the true word of God (or someone else).
>
>This is quite bigoted of you, Mr. McMaster.  Bigotry is a vice.
>
Oh, you have wounded me!  I have very few prejudices, actually.  The
biggest problem is that I am intolerant of fools.  That is why I have
such a low tolerance level for Libertarians.
 
>
>Tim Starr - Renaissance Now! - Think Universally, Act Selfishly
>
Jim McMaster
Xref: sparky alt.politics.marrou:169 talk.politics.theory:3006