HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jack@rml.UUCP (jack hagerty)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Black Brant Antennea (was Hot Glue)
Date: 2 Jan 93 22:51:21 GMT
Reply-To: jack@rml.UUCP (jack hagerty)
Organization: Robotic Midwives, Ltd.

In article <1992Dec31.223348.1687@primerd.prime.com> <J.Cook@ENS.Prime.COM> writes:
>In article <610@rml.UUCP> jack@rml.UUCP (jack hagerty) writes:
>>I've found hot glue handy for attaching little trim pieces like the 
>>toothpick "antennas" on the Black Brant. Gotta do them little guys after 
>>every flight :-)
>
>I understand the problem.  After I built mine, I found the following
>suggestion:
>Glue a small block of balsa (.25" x .25"?) inside the body tube. Drill a hole
>thru the body tube wall and into the balsa block.  Then mount your antenna in
>the hole.
>
>The are probably other varients.  You probably want to sand the balsa so it
>fits the curvature of the body tube.  You might also want to use a piece of
>paper clip wire instead of a toothpick for the antenna.

These are good suggestions, and very timely.

My problem with the antennas (antennae?) coming off was not aero forces
but recovery snapback. There was the classic dent in the leading edge
of the body tube and the toothpicks were ripped off *up*. I lost one one
the first flight (a "B" powered checkout), one on the "C" powered second
flight and two on the "D" powered third flight which CATO'd as it left the
rod. The legendary Peggy Apple forwarded me another kit and pack of motors
even though I couldn't find the casing of the one that blew. I am just about
to start building it, so I'll try your suggestions (I like the idea of
using "real" metal anttenae). My only reservationg is that if you make the
attachement of the part that breaks off stronger, it'll do more damage when
it finally does go!

- Jack

=============================================================================
||Jack Hagerty, Robotic Midwives, Ltd.                 jack@rml.com        ||
||Livermore, CA		           NOTE! New, improved address! ^^^        ||
||(510) 455-1143	            (old ones will still work)             ||
||-------------------------------------------------------------------------||
||          " 'Tis a coward I am, but I'll hold your coat"                 ||
||                  - Barry Fitzgerald, _How Green Was My Valley_          ||
=============================================================================
From: paul@taniwha.UUCP (Paul Campbell)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: 8' rockets..
Date: 28 Dec 92 22:54:34 GMT
Organization: Taniwha Systems Design

In article <24DEC92.15338923.0031@music.mus.polymtl.ca> CT80@music.mus.polymtl.ca (Steph) writes:
>>: One thing though : we are not experimenting with propellers.  Last
>>: time we use a professional French rocket propeller.  We are headed
>>: to use the same line of engine (although we might take a stronger
>>: one, :)).  It amazes me that there doesn't seem to be any made in
>>: North America.

ISP (Los Vegas, NV) makes motors for sounding rockets - the stuff that
we use in 'high power rocketry' is smaller versions of the same stuff
that they sell, (why do we use the smaller stuff? - only because we
can't afford the big stuff :-). The propellents are versions of the
same stuff the Space Shuttle solid boosters use (AP/rubber)

>Yup, we used a manufactured motor the last time around, and we
>are most likely doing the same thing now.  I don't have the specs
>of the different type of engines with me, all I recall of it is that
>it was solid-fuel ("propergol" in French; don't know if it's a
>direct translation of not), and came out to around $1000 apiece.
>It was donated to us by the French Space Agency.  How could we
>refuse?

Probably not :-) For $1000 roughly we can buy 2-3 'M' reloads from ISP
(plus you need the casings - but then you get to use these again).
This will get you up to somewhere in the range of 20-50,000ft which
is quite legal in many places in the US with appropriate FAA clearance.

>We didn't experiment with the staging concept.  First we want to
>build a reliable parachute ejection system as well as a dependant,
>expandable inboard computer system.  Once that is done, we will
>most likely include funkier scientific experiments, staging and
>picture-taking.

Triploi people do lots of this syuff, you can buy on-board computers,
ejection timers/pyrotechnics or camera systems through people who advertize
in High Power Rocketry - which is not to say that you shouldn't develop them
yourself since this is half the fun of this hobby (the other half is 'whoosh!').

For example I fly an <1oz flight computer about as powerfull as an Apple II
in rockets in the 'H' to 'J' size (and soon in my staged 'K' to 'K').

Tripoli people do fly smaller model rockets - it depends on the person,
there's a lot of overlap in technologies and in my case at least I live in a
built up area and have to travel a long way to find somewhere to fly high
power.

However I think we are kind of dancing around the issue here ... so here's a
couple of questions:

	- How heavy is your flight package?
	- How high do you want it to go?


	Paul
-- 
Paul Campbell    UUCP: ..!mtxinu!taniwha!paul     AppleLink: CAMPBELL.P
"Finally after much thought he tied a dollar bill to the top of the tree, it
seemed to fit - after all it was the premier capitalist holiday, besides after
the 'fall' of communism a star didn't seem appropriate anymore ..."
From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: hot glue
Date: 31 Dec 1992 19:03:44 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: rocket.sw.stratus.com

In article <85995@ut-emx.uucp>, miles@emx.cc.utexas.edu (Miles Abernathy) writes:
> I have only flown a small Estes rocket, the hobby store kind, but I was
> told on good authority (by a fellow who helps students put similar
> rockets together "all day long" at the school where he teaches) that you
> could use hot glue on the fins. I guess the motor burns out before the
> glue warms up.

Yup, it does.  The motor doesn't deliver full heat until well after
ejection.  So when the model is about halfway down on the parachute, 
you can watch your fins glop off and flutter away.

Really, if it's speed you want, use Hot Stuff.  If you can wait all of
five minutes, use five-minute epoxy.
-- 

cdt@rocket.sw.stratus.com   --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...

Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: 8' rockets..
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 17:46:16 GMT

CT80@music.mus.polymtl.ca (Steph) writes:
: >
: Well, for one thing, as has been mentioned by now, I'm in Quebec,
: Canada.  The laws should be just about similar, but there might be
: one or two differences.  We already have the site (military base),
: we are just looking for other clubs like us.  Maybe I should type
: out some blurb about us and upload it.
: 
: One thing though : we are not experimenting with propellers.  Last
: time we use a professional French rocket propeller.  We are headed
: to use the same line of engine (although we might take a stronger
: one, :)).  It amazes me that there doesn't seem to be any made in
: North America.

Does this mean that you are working with manufactured engines and
propellants? Are the engines solid, liquid or hybrid fueled? Are 
you experimenting with staging concepts - or are your only interests
in carrying scientific payloads?

Bill
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: soc1070                         
Subject: Re: 8' rockets..
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Minnesota CIS
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 16:41:00 GMT

In article <1992Dec23.072747.2151@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com>, billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes...
>jackson@sn.jsc.nasa.gov writes:
>:  
>: Getting a license to experiment with such rockets in the US is extremely
>: difficult.
>:  
>: Bill
>: ...................
>: I think this depends on what state you are in, I dont think here
>: in Texas there are state laws restricting any kind of rocket
>: building as long as you are not in a city or county that restricts
>: fireworks, and maybe not even then.
> 
>Well, the poster is in Canada, so our laws will not apply. However,
>here in the US, I suspect that there are a bunch of federal laws that
>would have to be complied with.
> 
>Bill

About all the laws I could think of right off the top of my head would be
those by the FAA, laws on handling chemicals (but rocket fuels are not
regulated, i.e. O2, alcohol, kerosine, but some more exotic stuff might
be), and anything the local or state fire marshall might have set up. I
would think in North Dakota, or anywhere there is alot of unrestricted
air space, minimal controls on fireworks, and few people it would'nt be
that hard to get permission to fly a liquid fuel rocket. The real trick
might be finging a piece of land from which to launch. There might be
a federal (state) land use permit required, and most private land is
farmed/ranched (at least in my example of ND). 


------
Tim Harincar				Millions long for immortality			
Central Minnesota 			who don't know what to do with
Association of Rocketry			themselves on a rainy Sunday 
soc1070@vx.cis.umn.edu			afternoon. -Susan Ertz
From: jack@rml.UUCP (jack hagerty)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: Estes Cineroc
Date: 31 Dec 92 19:03:20 GMT
Article-I.D.: rml.613
Reply-To: jack@rml.UUCP (jack hagerty)
Organization: Robotic Midwives, Ltd.

In article <kgray.2gqa@hotcity.COM> kgray@hotcity.COM (Kerry Gray) writes:
>I have an ancient Estes Cineroc that I'd like to shoot off a few more times. 
>Anybody know of a way to (a) get film and (b) get that film developed?

I have a section in the FAQ that addresses those exact points. If you
don't have it, I'll e-mail it to you.

- Jack

P.S. You *do* realize the risk you're taking with a reasonably
valuable piece of historical equipment, don't you? A functioning
Cineroc is getting rare.

=============================================================================
||Jack Hagerty, Robotic Midwives, Ltd.                 jack@rml.com        ||
||Livermore, CA		           NOTE! New, improved address! ^^^        ||
||(510) 455-1143	            (old ones will still work)             ||
||-------------------------------------------------------------------------||
||          " 'Tis a coward I am, but I'll hold your coat"                 ||
||                  - Barry Fitzgerald, _How Green Was My Valley_          ||
=============================================================================
From: 161685732@vill.edu (JOE PRYSZLAK)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: FidoNet
Date: 2 Jan 93 17:56:00 GMT
Organization: Villanova University
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1

In article <611@rml.UUCP>, jack@rml.UUCP (jack hagerty) writes...
>In article <1369@taniwha.UUCP> paul@taniwha.UUCP (Paul Campbell) writes:
>>In article <26DEC199201121721@vill.edu> 161685732@vill.edu (JOE PRYSZLAK) writes:
>>>Can anyone tell me if there's a FidoNet message base that is dedicated to
>>>model rocketry.  If not, would anyone be willing to help start one?
>>
>>Why start another ghetto - there's already Compuserve & us - can't we just
>>gateway r.m.r to/from Fido and make one bigger newsgroup?
> 
> 
>This is already being done on the soc.roots newsgroup. There is 
>a FidoNet gateway to them so that all messages are cross posted 
>simultaneously between the two networks. Maybe someone on that 
>group (I believe it's moderated) could provide a pointer.
> 
>- Jack
> 
> 
>=============================================================================
>||Jack Hagerty, Robotic Midwives, Ltd.                 jack@rml.com        ||
>||Livermore, CA		           NOTE! New, improved address! ^^^        ||
>||(510) 455-1143	            (old ones will still work)             ||
>||-------------------------------------------------------------------------||
>||          " 'Tis a coward I am, but I'll hold your coat"                 ||
>||                  - Barry Fitzgerald, _How Green Was My Valley_          ||
>=============================================================================

I like that idea.  I know a lot of rocketeers that don't have InterNet access
but could get on a FidoNet BBS.  Hell, most club BBSs could hook into FidoNet
and provide a high power and regular rocketry SIG.  Maybe the NAR would be
interested in something like this.
From: CT80@music.mus.polymtl.ca (Steph)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: 8' rockets..
Date: 21 Dec 92 18:06:31 GMT
Organization: Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal

Hello everyone!  I have a question to ask, and I hope I don't get
rocket-fumed for it.  I just captured the FAQ, and will read it
later on, but so far from what I was able to glance at, it
maybe doesn't answer it.

We are a Montreal-based amateur club building experimental rockets.
Our first one was 16kg, just over 5'.  We are currently working on
a second one which should reach around 26kg, 8', complete with its
own inboard computer and all the hooplas.  The problem is this :
the only clubs that we _know_ of that also make these kind of rockets
are in Europe.  Last year we had to fly oversea just to launch our
rocket (using a French booster, too).  Problem is this : it's not
very practical for us, and *I* couldn't go cuz the travel fares were
way too steep for me.  So I'm looking for people, addresses, anything,
anyone..  there has to be other clubs like us in North America!  If
you know of a place, if the place is you, or if you know there is
another, better suited newsgroup than this one, please let me know.

If you just have questions about our group, what we do, how we do it,
and so forth, then I'll be happy to answer you.

Thank you for your time,


Steph.
Who needs a .sig?
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: high power rocket launcher
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 19:03:12 GMT

161685732@vill.edu (JOE PRYSZLAK) writes:
: I recently bought an Aerotech model rocket kit (the Initiator to be exact) and
: I would like to build my own launcher for the thing, since Aerotech charges
: a bit too much for theirs.  Does anyone have any plans for a good rocket
: launcher for E-G engine rockets?? 
: Message-ID: <23DEC199210352822@vill.edu>
: Organization: Villanova University
: News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  

The Initiator is quite light. I have seen them launched from the model
rocket style "sawhorse/rod" type launcher - using a sheet metal disk as
a blast deflector.

If you want something heavier, I believe plans were printed on one of the
issues of The Tripolitan (before it became High Power Rocketry Magazine).

Bill
From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: hot glue
Date: 31 Dec 1992 19:01:45 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: rocket.sw.stratus.com

In article <30DEC199217263764@vill.edu>, 161685732@vill.edu (JOE PRYSZLAK) writes:

> Another question, does anyone besides the old CMR sell fin jigs?

Does Estes still sell that plastic fin jig?  That one is pretty good.

For a simple fin jig that you can even use in the field, take a piece
of L-shaped corner moulding, orient it point-up, and run it the long
way down a table saw for a few inches, right through the point.  You 
can make a dozen of these from one moulding, varying the width of the 
slot to accommodate different fin thicknesses.  To use, set the body 
tube in the V, stick the fin in the slot, and glue.
-- 

cdt@rocket.sw.stratus.com   --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...
From: 161685732@vill.edu (JOE PRYSZLAK)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: FidoNet
Date: 26 Dec 92 06:12:00 GMT
Organization: Villanova University
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1

Can anyone tell me if there's a FidoNet message base that is dedicated to
model rocketry.  If not, would anyone be willing to help start one?
From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: F100-4's
Date: 31 Dec 1992 19:07:45 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: rocket.sw.stratus.com

In article <uPZmwB1w165w@tsoft.net>, bbs.byron@tsoft.net (Byron Reynolds) writes:
> What's a good "recommended" launch weight for a rocket powered by an
> F100-4 Flight Systems motor?

A four-foot wall should be enough, if you stay close to it.

If the engine actually WORKS, it could probably hack 11-13 ounces no sweat.
This is off the top of my head.  Remember, an F100 is actually an E60 with
barely enough added N-sec to crawl over the F barrier.  (By E60 I'm referring
to an ideal E60 engine, not an FSI E60.)
-- 

cdt@rocket.sw.stratus.com   --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...
From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: F100-4's
Date: 31 Dec 92 19:15:46 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: rocket.sw.stratus.com

In article <1992Dec31.145156.1339@rsd0.rsd.dl.nec.com>, buzz@rsd.dl.nec.com (Buzz McDermott) writes:

> small Estes motors.  The choices for 'E' and 'F' motors was between Centuri
> 'MiniMax' and FSI.  The people flying in Fort Worth, Texas, at the time all
> seemed to prefer FSI.  That no longer seems to be the case.  Has something
> happended that FSI motors are much less reliable than years gone by?  

George Roos made FSI engines until the late 70's.  We thought they had bad
QC THEN as far as rated vs. actual performance.  Then Lonnie Reese started
making his engines himself, to improve QC, but they got worse.  The first
meet at which FSI engines started seriously catoing was NARAM-19 in 1977,
but I don't remember whether Lonnie had switched over yet or not.  Since
Lonnie died, his dad and his brother Larry have been making them, and they
haven't improved.  At best, they're a crapshoot these days.

> Am I wrong about that?  Since FSI motors are relatively big and use black powder
> fuel do they suffer from the same temp cycling problems as Estes D motors?

Temperature cycling is sufficient to make them cato, but not always
necessary.

> I also haven't seen a motor certification list in AmSpam, recently.  Are FSI
> motors NAR certified?  Are they contest certified?

Whatever was last published is still real, by definition.  I believe
all of them were on there at last glance.
-- 

cdt@rocket.sw.stratus.com   --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...
From: kgray@hotcity.COM (Kerry Gray)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Estes Cineroc
Date: 30 Dec 92 17:38:23 GMT
Organization: BBS

I have an ancient Estes Cineroc that I'd like to shoot off a few more times. 
Anybody know of a way to (a) get film and (b) get that film developed?
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)
Subject: Re: Hello and finless tec
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1992 19:47:52 GMT

In article <1345@taniwha.UUCP> paul@taniwha.UUCP (Paul Campbell) writes:

>OK - here's how you do it, you use one motor, you tie it to the spin-table
>like a catherine-wheel - when you ignite it it spins up the WESTAR which then
>flies off the table - not having a motor to ignite it gets mission points
>by failing from then on :-)

OK.. so what was the story behind the real Westar? Was it a rocket
launched off a spinning pad, or was it a satellite released off of 
spinning platform? Why did it fail?



-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala
Internet: NTAIB@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU |    Frog is Frog ala Peach
Bitnet:   NTAIB@IUBACS                 !
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: jackson@sn.jsc.nasa.gov
Subject: Re: FidoNet
Reply-To: jackson@sn.jsc.nasa.gov
Organization: Organization, City, State, etc.
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 10:55:34 GMT

In most big cities now in the US there is Internet access by way
of several BBS boards that mix Fidonet and Internet. One needs 
to find a BBS list of those near them.
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: jack@sybil.jpl.nasa.gov (Jack Kobzeff)
Subject: Re: Centuri book
Followup-To: rec.models.rockets
Organization: Jet Propulsion Lab
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 00:07:41 GMT

In article <24DEC199216451154@vill.edu>, 161685732@vill.edu (JOE PRYSZLAK)
wrote:
> 
> When I was a younger lad, I had this book from Centuri that was just filled
> with plans for model rockets, from Sputnik, to all sort of multi-stage and
> cluster models.  It also had some technical info.  Does anyone possibly
> still have a copy of this book, so I can get a copy.  Also, anyplace I can
> get a hold of old Centuri Technical Notes?

If your plan book had a Sputnik in it, it was probably an Estes book. I had
one from Estes that had a Sputnik in it, but never saw anything like it
from Centuri. For any old documents, try asking here, or ask ACME (see FAQ)
if they have any.

Jack Kobzeff     (jack@????.jpl.nasa.gov) Mail address changing
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)
Subject: Re: G Engines are Back!
Organization: Indiana University
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 15:16:14 GMT

In article <1992Dec21.224317.20483@ultb.isc.rit.edu> jsvrc@rc.rit.edu (J A Stephen Viggiano) writes:

>As of right now, Aerotech G engines are shipping. I just received a G40 from
>Rocketman, with a few interesting changes to the packaging:

>Also included, for your reading amusment: a photocopy of a fax from AeroTech
>president Gary Rosenfield, explaining that sale to infant minors can get
>the retailer, the distributor, and AeroTech into very, very serious trouble.
>He asks that the driver's licenses of purchasers be not only checked, but
>that the number be recorded on the sales ticket. "Your strict adherence to
>these sales restrictions is critical to avoid . . . being subject to
>substantial fines," it closes. It would have been nice if he would have
>added that cooperation for just a little longer might also help get things
>cleared up a little faster, by not getting any CPSC personnel pissed off.

Hmmm OK...

Say I wanted to buy some of these G motors. Do I simply mail a check to
Rocketman with a copy of my driver's license? 

What would one suggest as a kit for one of these? 

(Actually my guess is I don't have a field big enough to fly a G any-
how, unless it was deliberately weighed down. Perhaps an E or F would 
be better).






-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala
Internet: NTAIB@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU |    Frog is Frog ala Peach
Bitnet:   NTAIB@IUBACS                 !