HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: deb@soil.Princeton.EDU (Arghya Deb)
Subject: Double-speak
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 03:34:21 GMT


I believe the term double-speak was first used by George Orwell in 1984.
I might be wrong, because I read the book some time ago. There Orwell
uses it to describe the standard propaganda tactic used in all totalitarian
states. Since the Soviet Union under Stalin was the most glaring example
of a totalitarian state the time Orwell was writing his book, I believe
it is not abnormal to associate it with communist propaganda. 

I realize that misinformation was and is an important tool in international
diplomacy and the Western powers have fine-tuned the art to a fascinating
level of perfection. But all this was far from my mind when I made the
posting. I was frankly very indignant on reading Mr. Bhattacharya's posting.
I guess I might have been too strident, but I still cannot accept the
tone and nature of his comments. 
                                  With regards,
                                  Arghya Deb
 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
From: kazi@brahms.udel.edu (Zunaid Kazi)
Subject: Re: Failure of Socialism in Bangladesh
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 18:39:56 GMT

All this pedantic discourse on the failure of socialism in Bangladesh
and elsewhere is futile. The failure of socialism can be attributed to
one simple reason: Socialism as a political and economic model is
severely flawed and impractical.

The failure of rigid centralized economies attest quite well to this
fact. 

Furthermore, the Marxist jargons of "class less" society, "dictatorship
of the proletariat" et al are simply Gobbelesian propaganda aimed at
inculcating support from the disdvantaged segments of a society. 

In any society financial stratifications will exist, reflecting the
varying degrees of abilities. A society that does not reward its
members for their efficiency and ability is bound to break down or
at least totter towards economic collapse. The economies of the
ex-Soviet Block countries provide ample evidence to this. 

While I do not call for free-wheeling laissez-faire capitalism, I
believe that it is essential for individual enterprise and ability
to be amply rewarded in any economic model. Of course, in my economic
model I would expect state guarantees of minimum needs and social
services, while freeing individuals to perform at their peek.

Maybe we need a twist to old Marx's "From each according to his
abilities, to each according to his needs". I have taken some
liberties and tweaked it to marginally reflect the Kazist Economic
model": "From each according to one's abilities, to each according
to one's needs AND abilities". :-)

A toast to the end of communism. [Apologies, Khaleque ;-)]

Cheers,
Zunaid


Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.indian
From: uipooper@bcars123.bnr.ca (UI Pooper 2)
Subject: Place of worship and armed militants...		
Organization: bnr.ca
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 18:20:53 GMT

I had left the army by 1984 therefore cannot verify any facts oneway
or other. But this is what I was told by some officres who are now pretty
high ups (needless to say I cnnot quote them - they are still in service)	

1. Clearly Army brass totally hated this idea. It seems  Gen Vaidya was black
   mailed (sort of) by Indira. He would had to resign in disgrace if he did
   no go along with her "drastic" solution. This was supposed to be police's
   job. Most people in Army think this is not their role anyhow. If India ever
   came close to a "coup" that was the time. I suspect Indira used Army to
   send a "message", to whom is anyones guess. I almost destroyed the goodwill
   and faith people had in the Army. In 1960-70 I was in Punjab and we were
   more than welcome to partake "langgar" at any Gurudwara. Times have changed!!

2. This input I got from some soldiers who were close to action. A few battalions
   was used for this thankless purpose...you can be sure they almost revolted.
   There was an extremely large number of casualities BECAUSE the soldiers
   were supposed to restrict the way the militants were to be taken out.
   But after 2 days to sniping they rushed the complex, bare foot (this was
   a holy place - what a farce). The militant had spread cut glass all over
   so you can imagine what the situation was like. After this point the things
   became unclear what with smoke and mayhem. Why was teargas etc not used
   to flush the militants beats me. This was a "civilian" law and order type
   situation so why nor resort to normal police work. I think people in
   and around Indira lost their patience...may be she herself lost her cool.

3. In my opinion, I would be unjustified to say that Jawans would drown this
   child or that woman. People with weapons were fair game. Possibly in
   the mayhem and fire people jumped in the water to save their skins
   ... Anyone's guess since nothing was recorded. I wish the militants had/
   should NOT use the Holy temple as their base. Can you imagine if
   each and very place of worship is allowed to harbour people with weapons?
   BUT we should NOT/NEVER use the Jawans for this sort of thing again, ever.
   Its betrayal of the trust they repose in their commanders. 

Disclaimer " My views my words, reader may draw their own conclusions "
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
From: hhamouda@unity.ncsu.edu
Subject: Re: VIDEO CONVERSION: U.S. AND OTHER STANDARDS(PAL/SECAM/NTSSC)
Organization: North Carolina State University Project Unity
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 01:06:22 GMT

Hi,
 
Because of sevral e-mail requests, I am posting again this message here for the
benefit of others who might need such service.

I have used the following service for several conversions from NTSC to PAL that 
have been mailed back to Europe. I understand that the conversion is made 
through a digitized video signal and there is almost no quality loss from the 
original tape.

There is a service in Raleigh, NC where video conversion from any country format
to any format can be made for several types of cassettes(BETA, VHS, VHS-C and 8 mm).
This will allow playback of videotapes made overseas, here on U.S. TV's and VCR's
(NTSC System). The service will also convert the other way around, from
U.S. system to any of the systems used anywhere else in the world (PAL,
SECAM, etc..) 
 
Mailing Address:  INTERNATIONAL VIDEO CONVERSION
                  520 Harvest Lane
                  Raleigh, NC 27606-2217
 
Phone:            (919) 233-8689
 
Fees:             $20.00 + $5.00 S&H 
                  (Price of a High Grade Cassette Included, 2hrs or less)

Delivery:         Mailed back the next day, express shipping at request. 
 
Payment: 	  Cheque, Cash or Money Order mailed with tape.

Conversions from photographic pictures, slides, 8, super 8, 16 mm movies to any of 
the video standards are also provided.

Regards,
Hechmi.
From: hassan@cup.portal.com (hassan monu alam)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Re: WalMart and BD
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 92 18:47:43 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

These same children work as domestic servants. I dont think they really
have an economic choice. My suspicion is the hue-and-cry about 
child labour is a protectionist ploy. 

If these people are so concerned about child labour, we will be more
than happy to take educational assistance. Save the Children has
a very active operation in Bangladesh.

Hassan
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
From: bhattach@quip.eecs.umich.edu (sayan bhattacharyya)
Subject: Re: Failure of Socialism/Reply to Zunaid Kazi 
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor, MI
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 03:13:08 GMT

In article <1992Dec23.231334.19097@udel.edu> kazi@hercules.cis.udel.edu (Zunaid Kazi) writes:
>
>Tell me, did Lenin and Trotsly envisage the
>some sort of central co-ordination of the working's of the soviet's.
>Furthermore, how would large industries be handled in this model?

I don't have references handy, but I will try to answer your question.

As far as I remember, it was envisaged that the self-organising 
entities would set their own production targets, but would keep 
in touch with other similar  entities across the country to decide   
on their priorities by consensus. 


>Did they contemplate any sort of competition amongst the various
>soviet's who might be engaged in similar activities?  
>

I do not think competition was envisaged.

The necessity for competition arises in capitalism because of the 
profit motive.  Competition can be replaced by co-operation quite 
easily if the profit motive is absent.  For example, I live in a 
student's co-operative under the aegis of an organisation which 
was originally founded by the University of Michigan Socialist 
Students' Club. There are several co-operative houses for students
under the aegis of this organisation, but the relationship between
the individual houses is one of cooperation, not competition. If 
we were in the business for a profit, then there would have been
necessity for competition among the different houses in order to
procure more "tenants". But since we are not interested in profit,
we co-operate, and everyone benefits.

>- Zunaid
>

-Sayan.




-- 
Sayan Bhattacharyya          |   Colourless green ideas sleep furiously.
Graduate student             |
Artificial Intelligence Lab  |
The University of Michigan   |
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.indian
From: sahmed@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Saif Ahmed)
Subject: Re: Victory Day / why India intervened in '71
Organization: Oberlin College Computer Science
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 19:29:07 GMT
X-Posted-From: occs.cs.oberlin.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1h4ntlINN3n7@hsc.usc.edu> banerjee@hsc.usc.edu (Samit Banerjee) writes:
> of Pakistani brutality and the resulting tension between the two countries
> culminated in the Pakistani raid on Indian airfields, December 24,1971 which
> started the war.

Are you sure you got that date right???

> And so while no one expects the Bangladeshi people to grovel, a simple thank
> you in the memory of the over ten thousand Indian soldiers who died fighting
> not for their own country, but to liberate someone else's, hardly seems too
> much to ask for.

Appreciation is in order and the Indian help is appreciated. But to
claim that the Indian soldiers died fighting only to liberate someone
else's country without any self interest is firstly naive and secondly
disagrees with your earlier argument in your article that India
probably didn't have the foresight to seek the dismemberment of
Pakistan. It also doesn't go with your argument that the Indian
engagement began only as a result of Pakistani attacks on Indian
territory. 
It is difficult to predict what would have happenned if that attack
didn't take place. Perhaps India would not have interfered. Bangladesh
would have been independent eventually, it might have been later that
it had happenned. But such retrospection is of hardly any value now.
India has helped Bangladesh in the liberation war and Bangladeshis are
grateful for that.

> Samit

Saif
--
                                                                          _
                                                                         / \
 ________________________________________________________________________\_/
/ \  							                   |
\_/ 									   |
| | Saifuddin Ahmed                                                        |
| | sahmed@occs.cs.oberlin.edu                                             |
| |________________________________________________________________________/
\_/


Xref: sparky soc.culture.bangladesh:6921 soc.culture.indian:41539
From: un032053@wvnvms.wvnet.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.india
Subject: graduate assistantship available
Date: 29 Dec 92 21:12:34 GMT
Organization: West Virginia Network for Educational Telecomputing


		RESEARCH ASSISTANTSHIP
		----------------------

Topic:  Software Verification & Validation

Description:  The Dept. of Electrical and Computer Engineering at West 
Virginia University, Morgantown, West Virginia, has a Research 
Assistantship available for the PhD programme starting Spring 1993. 
The interested candidate will persue PhD research in the area of 
Software Verification & Validation, specifically on Software 
System Performance Modelling and Analysis (Performance Engineering). 
Background required is in Software Engineering and knowledge of 
C and Unix based tools.

	Interested individuals should promptly send their resumes(Text only)
via email at 

	ee_lateef@a.coe.wvu.wvnet.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.indian
From: naeem@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Naeem Mohaiemen)
Subject: Re: Victory Day / why India intervened in '71
	<BzoHvA.G52@uceng.uc.edu> <1992Dec23.093228.9126@lut.ac.uk>
Organization: Oberlin College Computer Science
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 17:14:13 GMT
X-Posted-From: occs.cs.oberlin.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1992Dec23.093228.9126@lut.ac.uk> G.S.Samra@lut.ac.uk writes:

   In article <BzoHvA.G52@uceng.uc.edu> mghayalo@uceng.uc.edu (Manoj Ghayalod) writes:


   >We Indians are proud of you.  The treatment the Pakistani soldiers
   >recieved shows the high standards of professionalism of the Indian army.
   >
   >Manoj

   Is this the same Indian Army soldiers that shot dead at point blank (normally by
   putting the bullet through the back of the head) the Sikhs who had either
   given themselves up or were 'captured' by the Army during and after the
   invasion of the Golden Temple in 1984?
-----
Surely not, the jawans who served in 1971 are all probably retired by now.

On a more serious not, you yourself probably know the answer to that. It has
a lot to do with the attitude the leadership transmits down to the jawans.
Thus, Pak army's brutalities in 1971 had a lot to do with the message from 
HQ, which was basically slash and burn tactics throughout the countryside.

nm
--

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Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
From: naeem@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Naeem Mohaiemen)
Subject: alt.culture.bengali
Organization: Oberlin College Computer Science
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 04:48:47 GMT
X-Posted-From: occs.cs.oberlin.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu


I think it is a commendable idea to start a new group related to bangla
culture. But I was curious:

Do Bangla culture discussants feel unwelcome on this board? Or is it that 
they are getting sick of wading through other inane discussions? If it
is latter, bangla culture related postings might be just the tonic to drown
out the inane discussions.

I was just reading two boards I never read before: alt.feminism and soc.women
They seemed to be duplications of each other.

Naeem
--

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Xref: sparky soc.culture.bangladesh:7130 soc.culture.indian:42082
From: banerjee@hsc.usc.edu (Samit Banerjee)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Ganga Water sharing
Date: 26 Dec 1992 20:15:29 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: hsc.usc.edu
Keywords: Farakka Barrage

In article <1992Dec27.022928.7348@udel.edu> kazi@oin.cis.udel.edu (Zunaid Kazi) writes:

>>Given these facts, tell me if I am completely off base in claiming that 
>>BD is a military dictatorship.
>
>Yes, completely off base. Bangladesh WAS a military dictatorship but is
>one no longer and hopefully will remain as such.

I share your optimism. But international relations do not turn at the flip
of a coin and it will take awhile to destroy old perceptions and build
new ones. An entire generation of bureaucrats fed the image of the 
"Ugly Indian" or the "Unscrupulous Bangladeshi" can hardly be expected
to turn around and embrace his neighbour. 

In addition, the impression persists in international circles that
Khaleda Zia holds office at the discretion of the Army ( a la Benazir Bhutto)
and she may be toppled at any time should there be a perception that
she is gaining in popularity, undercutting the influence of the generals
and/or making peace with Bangladesh's "enemies".

>As the current constitution stands, of course you cannot call Bangladesh
>a secular country, just as you cannot call the United Kingdom a secular 
>country, both having a religion expressly mentioned as a state religion. 
>However, this does not make Bangladesh a theocratic state, since IMO in a 
>theocratic state the civil and criminal laws would be derived from religious 
>canons.

You are right and I take that back.


>And my explanations as to why I do not agree with you are also given above.
>Can we agree on this? Bangladesh WAS a military dictatorship and ISN'T
>a secular country (as per political definitions), but NEITHER is it a 
>fundamentalist country.

Agreed. However the largely neophytic experimentation in democracy
has not only to stand the test of time but also prove that it's proponents
are willing to make radical changes from the way foreign policy was handled
in the past.  A very tall order, that.


>Based on my initial impressions, if I were the PM of Bangladesh, I
>think I would be able to say, "I can do bussiness with this man (PVNR)".
>(With apologies to Thatcher. :-))

Hopefully PVNR can be convinced that Bangladesh is no longer the "evil
empire" many policy planners in New Delhi were convinced it was. :-)
I sure would hope that this can be done sooner than later.


Samit

-- 
Samit Banerjee,			    |  
University of Southern California   |  A man who smiles when things go wrong,
Internet: banerjee@scf.usc.edu      |  has found somebody to blame it on.
Bellnet : (213) 342-1401            |  
Xref: sparky soc.culture.bangladesh:6943 soc.culture.indian:41628
From: banerjee@hsc.usc.edu (Samit Banerjee)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Check your dates (why India intervened in '71
Date: 21 Dec 1992 15:59:00 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: hsc.usc.edu

In article <NAEEM.92Dec21183842@occs.cs.oberlin.edu> naeem@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Naeem Mohaiemen) writes:

>   culminated in the Pakistani raid on Indian airfields, December
>   24,1971 which
   ^^^^^^^^^
>   started the war.
>The war ended on December 16, 1971.


Sorry, that should have read December 2nd,1971.  The Pakistani air attack took
place under the cover of darkness on that night. The next day, India declared
war.

My apologies to all those who pointed out the mistake. I stand corrected.

Samit

Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.indian
From: sahmed@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Saif Ahmed)
Subject: Re: Victory Day / why India intervened in '71
	<SAHMED.92Dec21142907@occs.cs.oberlin.edu>
	<1992Dec22.151737.18812@bnr.ca>
Organization: Oberlin College Computer Science
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 18:48:45 GMT
X-Posted-From: occs.cs.oberlin.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

Can you put a proper address on your post. Mail seems to be bouncing.

Saif
--
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                                                                         / \
 ________________________________________________________________________\_/
/ \  							                   |
\_/ 									   |
| | Saifuddin Ahmed                                                        |
| | sahmed@occs.cs.oberlin.edu                                             |
| |________________________________________________________________________/
\_/
From: an3925@anon.penet.fi
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: SALA DEEPAK BANGALI BOSE KI L*** KI AISE TAISE
Date: 31 Dec 92 07:38:32 GMT
Organization: Anonymous contact service
X-Anonymously-To: soc.culture.bangladesh


OTHER DOG THAT DEEPAK BOSEADIKA BARKING AGAIN 
APRIL FOOL BABY :-))))))))))  MERE G*** MEN DUM HAI.

DEEPAK BOSE KI G*** MEN HAATI KA L*** :-)))))))
SALA KUTTEY KI AULAD :))))))))))))

HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!

MUSTAFA IBRAHIM 

imustafa@slate.mines.colorado.edu




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From: an3925@anon.penet.fi
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: DEEPAK BOSE KI HINDU L*** KI AISE TAISE
Date: 31 Dec 92 06:52:45 GMT
Organization: Anonymous contact service
X-Anonymously-To: soc.culture.bangladesh

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From: banarji@unixg.ubc.ca (Ajai Banarji)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: When did the 1971 war start?
Date: 25 Dec 1992 01:28:37 GMT
Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: unixg.ubc.ca

		  When did the 1971 war start?

  There is one important point everyone has missed. The war "officially"
started on December 3 when 1) Pakistan declared war on India, and 2) Pakistan
attacked Indian airfields.
  What the standard Indian history books will not mention is that for all
practical purposes the war started a few days earlier (Nov 24) when Indian
troops and tanks crossed into the Jessore sector.
  This can be verified from any major paper like NYT or Times (London) at that
time. If you don't want to strain yourself with the microfilm, try Time or
Newsweek or Keesing's Archives.
  As there seem to be a few ex-army people on these newsgroups, they may like
to comment on this.


Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.indian
From: naeem@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Naeem Mohaiemen)
Subject: Check your dates (why India intervened in '71
Organization: Oberlin College Computer Science
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 23:38:42 GMT
X-Posted-From: occs.cs.oberlin.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1h4ntlINN3n7@hsc.usc.edu> banerjee@hsc.usc.edu (Samit Banerjee) writes:

	We faced an influx of thousands of refugees from across the border 
as a result
   of Pakistani brutality and the resulting tension between the two
countries
   culminated in the Pakistani raid on Indian airfields, December
24,1971 which
^^^^^^^   

   started the war.
----


The war ended on December 16, 1971.


--
Naeem Mohaiemen
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"Being black in this country is like playing white russian roulette with
all chambers loaded."  -H. R. Brown, 1967
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Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh