From: KARLIN@BNLCL6.BNL.GOV (P.L. Cowan)
Subject: Re: What the FAQ?
Organization: BROOKHAVEN NATIONAL LABORATORY
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 22:04:23 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.23


In <1992Aug24.191808.23426@cco.caltech.edu> morphy@cco.caltech.edu writes:

: 
: >KARLIN@BNLCL6.BNL.GOV (P.L. Cowan) writes:
: 
: >>If this group ever gets past the current round of trading political opinions
: >>and starts asking factual questions again, I nominate the names of the CSA 
: >>flags as the first entry for the FAQ.
: 
: 
: It's great. Now maybe I can get some details on Nazi flags, while ignoring their
: atrocities against the Jews. This is really pretty sick. How can the emblems
: of American barbarity be be the first entry into a FAQ? It says so much about
: the person making that remark.
: 

Okay, my side:

The above was intended to be humorous, but there was some conviction behind it.
As I understand it, the purpose of a FAQ (FAQ == Frequently Asked Question) is
to establish a certain base of factual information and terminology, so that as
new readers subscribe to the group they can come up to speed quickly without
filling the net with repetitions of the same old questions (or the same old
mistakes) again and again. When someone posts a discussion mentioning the
"Stars and Bars" it would be helpful to know whether the writer is referring to
the flag that was historically called the "Stars and Bars" or in fact to the
"Confederate Navy Jack" (which is frequently called the "Stars and Bars"). 

Jones, keep in mind that you yourself said (in response to a post by Trevor)
that the 1860 US Flag was every bit as much a symbol of racism, slavery, etc as
was the original national flag of the CSA, i.e. the Stars and Bars. On the
other hand, the "Confederate Navy Jack" (not the Stars and Bars) was (and is)
used extensively by the Ku Klux Klan, and therefore conveys additional 
connotations of post-war Jim-Crow Laws, violations of newly granted
Constitutional rights, segregation etc. 

I therefore feel that if we are to discuss these subjects with minimal
misinterpretation, it will be helpful to have precise definitions for the 
terms we use. I cannot think of another ambiguity that has occurred as
frequently on this group since it started as has confusion over the phrase
"Stars and Bars". Once again I say, "I nominate the names of the CSA flags as
the first entry for the FAQ."

Now, your side:

You state, "It says so much about the person making that remark." I am no good
at reading between the lines. What do you think it DOES say? 


: A factual inquiry in to the Civil war must begin and end on racism, because 
: that is the much larger war of which the civil war was a sideshow.
: Jones
: -- 
: Jones M Murphy Jr                                        (212) 602-4375

You have stated before that you wish to discuss a civil war between the races
that you feel existed before 1861 and has continued since 1865. The charter of
this newsgroup states, 

"The purpose of this group is the discussion of topics related to the United
States Civil War (1861-65). "

So while the Civil War may or may not have been a "sideshow" of the "civil war"
[please note the capitalization] you are interested in, it is still the proper
subject for discussion on this particular newsgroup. 

I agree (and have so stated) that most of the white people involved in the
Civil War (on both sides) held racist beliefs. However, the vast majority of
the fighting of the Civil War involved armies of Southern white men against
armies of (mostly) white Northern men, governed by white men on both sides. 
While the beginnings of the dispute between these two white-male-dominated
groups may have involved racist laws and beliefs, and the evolution in Northern
policy toward race made important contributions toward ending the Civil War, it
is obvious that one cannot understand the Civil War through an inquiry that
"begins and ends" with racism. The argument that the white members of the CSA
army were where so racist and greedy toward black people that they shot
hundreds of thousands of white people from the North and died themselves in the
hundreds of thousand is so narrow as to be facetious.

I have often found it beneficial to alt.war.civil.american to have your input
on the American Civil War fought between the CSA and the USA in 1861-1865.
However, if the primary subject you wish to discuss is a racist "civil war", 
and you feel the "Civil War" [again I am being precise about capitalization] 
is only side show to this, then you have chosen the wrong venue to express your
opinions.
                               
Now, my second nomination for the FAQ is a description of how to enter into a
KILL file the name of an author who ignores the charter.


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