From: hue@island.COM (Pond Scum)
Subject: Re: Opinions: 4runner, Explorer and Pathfinder
Organization: Island Graphics Corp.
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 09:24:06 GMT

duncan@informix.com (Duncan Moore) writes:
>I am still waiting to hear from all of you who have 
>recently purchased loaded 4runners, Explorers or
>Pathfinders.  Several people have requested that I
>post the results of my inquires, but I have not had

I am looking at the Ford Explorer and Jeep Grand Cherokee right now.  So
far I have only looked at the Ford Explorer thoroughly, and I haven't
driven the Grand Cherokee yet.

I'm never really considered the 4runner or Pathfinder, I just like
the Ford and Jeep better.  The Toyota doesn't have near as much
room inside than either the Explorer or Grand Cherokee, and is a
little underpowered.  I don't know anything about the Pathfinder,
except that it reminds me of a Tonka truck.

From what I've read in Road & Track and other magazines, the Jeep
has by far the better suspension, resulting in a better ride and
better handling.  The Ford's brakes got a bad rap, but they are
different this year so they may be improved.  Mileage and performance
is about the same, despite the fact that the Jeep gets 30 more horsepower
from the same size engine.  Everyone seems to agree that the Ford
is more intelligently laid out, and has a lot more room, 60/40
split rear seat which folds flat (Jeep rear seat folds up weird).
I like the way the back of the Ford opens up also.

The Ford only has part time 4WD, the Jeep is available with two
different part time 4WD and one full time 4WD (AWD).  The spare tire
on the Ford is carried underneath between the frame rails, while on
the Jeep it has to be inside, although there might be an option to
carry it on the tailgate now.  It's actually possible to sleep in
the back of an Explorer (but you have to be on friendly terms with
the other person).  I thought I wanted a stick because it was rated
2mpg higher, but it seems the automatic might be the stronger
transmission, based upon the towing charts.  On the Explorer the peak
torque is reached at a lower RPM than with the manual (different cam?).

Consumer magazines usually recommend the Explorer over the Jeep despite
the superiority of the Jeep suspension, probably because it is quite
a bit cheaper and has more room.  Road and Track picked the Jeep first
in both price independent and price dependent voting.  You can get a V8
in the Jeep, but it's only 35 more hp than the 4.0 liter I-6.  It does
have about 60lb-ft of torque though.

Reliability has me a little worried.  I have a friend who has convinced
about ten other people to buy Ford Explorers and none of them have had
any real problems.  However, someone who works here has had an absolutely
horrible experience with his Explorer.  His secretary told me she has
never seen him as mad as he is when he has to go pick his car up from the
dealer, and that he got so mad he actually spoke to the president of Ford
Motor Company on the phone (he is obviously not a peon software developer
like me).

If I buy a Ford Explorer I'm planning to go to the fleet salesman my
friend bought his from.  He was charged about two or three hundred
over dealer invoice, and was able to special order his.

-Jonathan		hue@island.COM