HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott Tai)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: /T/ And the score is.....
Date: 8 Apr 92 23:19:11 GMT
Reply-To: tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott Tai)
Organization: NCSU Artificial Intelligence Systems Laboratory

sue%miracle@merk.com (The Dragon Queen) writes:

> And, in 1st place, with a record total of 43 postings, is (you guessed it!):
> Scott Tai.  (Somehow I thought his total would be higher, though!)

"It's a total disgrace, they set the pace, it must be a race
 And the best thing I can do is run."  

					--from "Out on the Tiles"

---------
Scott Tai
From: roger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: (T/F) TAI'S INTELLIGENCE DEBATE: PART I
Date: 13 Apr 92 19:33:00 GMT
Organization: Princeton University
Originator: news@ernie.Princeton.EDU

In article <1992Apr13.162113.13473@ncsu.edu>
 tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott Tai) writes:
>------------------------- 
>INTELLIGENCE AND HEREDITY
>-------------------------
>
>ARTHUR R. JENSEN 
>THE HERITABILITY OF INTELLIGENCE
>--------------------------------
>

Thanks for reformatting. 

Now, tell us what this is all about!   Where did you find these
articles?  When were they written?  Why did you post "You wanted facts,
you got 'em" before the introduction [written by whom, btw.?], when what
follows is a mix of opinion and fact and long-since discredited work?
Most of the data Jensen relies on is open to much more debate than he
allows, and some of the studies he refers to (though I see no citations
anywhere) have been completely discredited in the > 15 years since
whatever this piece actually is first appeared.

Roger
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: sue@netcom.com (Sue Miller)
Subject: Re: is this group moderated?
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 92 17:29:04 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

In article <rnjiuINNqcu@agate.berkeley.edu> chesl@garnet.berkeley.edu (Gail Chesler) writes:
>I sent a message a while back.  The first paragraph about
>deleting irrelevant text while flaming was omitted from
>the message.  The second paragraph (much shorter) was
>left in.  Is this group moderated?  I had not thought so.
>
>someone let me know, please.  E-mail is easy to
>chesl@garnet.berkeley.edu

Tee hee, can't suppress a chuckle.  Moderated?  Not hardly - this
group would not be hip-deep if so (where's me wellies?).
Anyway, the reason you lost your first paragraph is because you 
typed it as the subject line, I'd bet.
From: mcbeanb@brandonu.ca
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: /T/ Harsh Language in Recent Post
Date: 9 Apr 92 21:55:30 GMT
Organization: Brandon University, Brandon, Manitoba, Canada

In article <2054.29E1300C@kennel.FIDONET.ORG>, Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Mike Steiner) writes:
> 
> Scott Tai writes about "/T/ Harsh Language in Recent Post" to All  [05 Apr 92
> 23:55]
> 
>>>In all seriousness, this makes me sicker than anything I've ever seen here.
>>>This is simply uncalled for!  I realize that not everyone has the same
>>>religious preferences.  However, please respect others and watch the
>>>language in future posts.
> 
>  >It does NOT make you that sick!
> 
> ST>  It does.
> 
> [quite a bit of slanderous remarks and "harsh" language deleted]
>  
> /207 143/207
> --  
> Mike Steiner
> UUCP: uts.amdahl.com!kennel!207.1!Mike.Steiner
> INTERNET: Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG
> "The views expressed above are those of Mike Steiner only."

Could it be possible that someone other than Mr. Steiner has posted
these articles?  I know Mr. Steiner can tend to be a bit hot under
the collar (especially with Mr. Tai), but isn't this blowing things
just a *tiny* bit out of proportion?

Brian McBean  -  McBeanB@BrandonU.Ca
From: Dave.Aronson@f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Dave Aronson)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Fermat's flunkeys (was Re: A Real Challenge)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 00:08:44 -0500

Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG replies:

 MS> I can't understand how someone who can read
 MS> only at the second-grade level can get a HS diploma.

 I can't understand how a nation can let its schools, the very people in
 charge of its most precious resource for nearly half of said resource's
 waking hours, get away with such waste of said resources!

 Pretty soon they'll have to change the grade-level definitions to
 reflect the sorry state of American schools.  That seems to be the only
 way the school systems will have the BALLS to get our HS grads back to
 reading at a 12th-grade level....
From: wilson@cs.utexas.edu (Paul Wilson)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: The Triple Nine Society: experiences?
Summary: what's it like?
Keywords: ubermenschen, ubermensans, superlosers, Triple Nine Society
Date: 10 Apr 92 23:14:45 GMT
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: boogie.cs.utexas.edu

Anybody know what the Triple Nine Society (or the other 0.1% 
groups) is like?  Do they have enough members anywhere to
actually have meetings?  If so, what are they like?  If not,
is there any point in joining, other than to be able to say
they let you in?  (Can you get a list of nearby members, and
invite them over for a beer?)

I'm wondering if they have meetings when there are Mensa AG's
or whatever... do the triple niners gather somewhere nearby?
Are they like Mensans, only more so, and in what ways? (Yikes! :-)

Is their newsletter (if any) worthwhile?  Is there an electronic
mailing list?  (Seems like half of Mensans are computer geeks^H^H^H^H^H folks,
so that might actually be a workable thing if the same is true of
the 99.9%ile groups.)

And why are there three groups with a 99.9%ile filter?  Do they have
different purposes?

By the way, is there any point to Intertel?  Seems to me that the difference
between the bottom half of the top one percent isn't significantly different
from the bottom half of the top two percent---just a tiny fraction of a
standard deviation, and small relative to the noise and likely biases.
(Nobody thinks IQ tests are THAT good, do they?)  Why bother making the
distinction?  Or is it some kind of reaction against Mensa per se?
(Please, no flame wars about this...)

Thanks prematurely,

   -- PRW

-- 
| Paul R. Wilson, runtime environmentalist          wilson@cs.utexas.edu      |
| U. of Texas Computer Sciences Dept.               voice: (512) 471-9555     |
| Taylor Hall 2.124, Austin, TX 78712-1188          fax:   (512) 471-8885     |
| "Inertia makes the world go 'round."              DoD M.C. # e  (Sz GS450T) |
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: kyle@uunet.uu.net (Kyle Jones)
Subject: Re: A REAL CHALLENGE: Fermat's last theorem..
Organization: UUNET Communications Services
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 21:27:42 GMT

Anyone seriously interested in the problem should go read the
sci.math FAQ posting, with has a lot of information and
references as well.

This is one of the reasons why I don't think rambling about
random topics is appropriate here.  Much of the posted
misinformation about what has and has not been proven about the
theorem could have been avoided if the original poster had went
to sci.math first.

Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: sonic@cray.com (Curtis L. Swanson)
Subject: Re: Calendars           
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 10 Apr 92 13:23:18 CDT

The xwindow calendar program on my sun workstation throws Sunday at the
end of the week.  Just shows that nits are being picked and not much
useful information being added.....

--
*** Curt Swanson * sonic@artgate.cray.com *** IOTTMCO ********************

Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: crossgl@infonode.ingr.com (Gordon Cross)
Subject: Re: Unbelievable Jump in GRE Score
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 13:04:06 GMT

Regarding increasing one's SAT scores:

I took the test three times and by cramming for it managed to increase the
combined score by nearly 400 points between the first and last times I took
it - I was challenging myself to see now high I could get.  Most of this
increase was on the verbal part of the test by the way.
-- 

Gordon Cross          UUCP:     uunet!ingr!infonode!crossgl   "all opinions are
111 Westminister Way  INTERNET: crossgl@infonode.ingr.com    mine and not those
Madison, AL 35758     MA BELL:  (205) 730-7842               of my employer."
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: vince@Cadence.COM (Vince Gibboni)
Subject: Re: /T/ Mensa Frauds Exposed - reasons exposed
Organization: Cadence Design Systems, Inc.
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 22:14:21 GMT

(Roger Lustig) writes:
>
> -- Nobody has been able to find inherent differences in test outcomes
> from different ethnic groups.
>

    Perhaps this is true for ETS tests, but it is not true for IQ tests.
    Certain ethnic groups _have_ shown significant differences in average
    IQ, although, admittedly, most of the studies in this area are fairly 
    old (as it is now considered to be in rather bad taste to point these
    differences out). This could be contributed to cultural bias on the part
    of test, or to the dispropotionately low socio-economic status of 
    certain ethnic groups, or, perhaps, to a correlation between intelligence
    and race. It's my impression that, although most will not publicly 
    say it, most psychologists favor the latter. (Well, at least the ones I 
    know do). 
    
-- 
                                                        vince@gda.cadence.com
       My friends think she's a dumb blonde,
       but they don't know she dyes her hair.
            - Thomas Dolby
From: eab@uh.msc.edu (Edward Bertsch)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Just one guy's opinions
Date: 7 Apr 92 02:46:11 GMT
Organization: Minnesota Supercomputer Center

sure, the brighter kids do alot for the less bright kids, when mixed all
together.  But what do the bright kids get out of this deal?  Learning
to serve the less fortunate?  What they get is bored.

I say group people by ability, even more than by age.  So you could be
at 12th grade english, and 8th grade math, and 9th grade science..

when you are at 12th grade english, math, science... THEN you get your
high school diploma.  It is ridiculous to assume that people progress
in ability in each subject at a uniform rate.  And it is ridiculous to
assume that people of the same age have the same abilities.

--

Edward A. Bertsch (eab@msc.edu)   Minnesota Supercomputer Center, Inc.
Operations/User Services          1200 Washington Avenue South
(612) 626-1571 work               Minneapolis, Minnesota  55415
(612) 645-0168 voice mail

	"Read _MY_ lips: I won't be voting for Bush in 1992"
From: Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: What is the purpose of this newsgroup and Mensa?
Date: 10 Apr 92 07:43:28 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:143/207.1 - Sunnyvale Fido Conn, Sunnyvale CA


Richard Barry Shrum writes about "Re: What is the purpose of this newsgroup
and Mensa?" to All  [09 Apr 92 23:20]

>Rick, there should be one other way to get in:  Anyone named Lanny Poffo should

>automatically be admitted without any further evidence--smiley face manadatory.

RBS>  Oh, man; busted again! But seriously, you are right. Lanny Poffo 
RBS> *is* the world's smartest man, but Robert B. Heenan is right 
RBS> on his "heel"s.

Robert "the brain" Heenan may think that he's a brain, but we all know that
he's nothing more than a weasel.
 
/207 143/207
--  
Mike Steiner
UUCP: uts.amdahl.com!kennel!207.1!Mike.Steiner
INTERNET: Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG
"The views expressed above are those of Mike Steiner only."
From: arjay@philtis.cft.philips.nl (R.J. Kimmel)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: A Truly International Gathering
Keywords: Mensa in Holland
Date: 14 Apr 92 12:01:27 GMT
Organization: Philips Centre For Technology, Eindhoven


Are any Mensans out there planning to attend the International
Gathering in Holland later this year?  Considering the new groups
in the eastern european countries that will be present, it may be
interesting.


ArJay
"Writer of Technical Manuals and Other Science Fiction!"
From: sue@netcom.com (Sue Miller)
Subject: Re: /T/ Harsh Language in Recent Post
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 92 16:49:31 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

In article <2054.29E1300C@kennel.FIDONET.ORG> Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Mike Steiner) writes:
>
>
>Tough shit, you cock-suckin, shit-eatin, mutha-fuckin, summ-bitch asshole. 
>You are so full of bullshit that the fertilizer industry has declared you a
>national resource.
>
>I have been meaning to ask you, when are your parents going to get married?
> Oh yes, I almost forgot:  Yo mama cain't figger out which of those dozen guys
>who paid her five bucks that night is yo papa.  I wonder though, did she get
>her rabbies shots before or after?
> 

Gee Mike, this post nearly made me faint with delight.  But I'm a
sick kinda girl.

BTW my roomie sez that if we could get milk out of Scott as well as
muck then we'd really have something...

From: Dave.Aronson@f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Dave Aronson)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: IQ Statistics und SAT, GRE, GMAT
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 00:16:04 -0500

Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG writes:

 MS> the Army GT has [a 98th %ile score of] 136 (however,
 MS> that is of the general population; 140 is the 98th 
 MS> percentile for those people in the military).

 Hmmmm!  Is that because folks in the military are smarter, or because
 they vary more widely, or what?  Do they give the test to EVERYBODY, so
 that this really does mean "those in the military", or just to some
 select subset, which could skew the results?

From: Dave.Aronson@f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Dave Aronson)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Fermat's flunkeys (was Re: A Real Challenge)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 00:16:40 -0500

werme@alliant.com (Ric Werme) writes:

 RW> Perhaps the question should be "Why are there people who've made it
 RW> through college without hearing about Fermat's Last Theorem?"

 RW> Is it the decline of Mathematical Games?  Lousy schools?  Other
 RW> distractions?

 The second, methinks.  <sigh>  Not so much the schools themselves, but
 the low standards they let students get away with meeting.  It is a
 national DISGRACE that we have illiterates with high-school
 diplomas....

 RW> Hey Michael, you don't suppose there are people unfamilar
 RW> with the various sets of three laws (e.g. Kepler, Thermo, Robotics)?

 Layman's Interpretation of the Three Laws of Thermodynamics:
 1) You can't win.
 2) You can't break even.
 3) You can't quit.
From: phil%miracle@merk.com (Phil Hill)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: (T) INTELLIGENCE DEBATE: PART I
Date: 13 Apr 92 19:13:05 GMT
Article-I.D.: miracle.13Apr92141305
Organization: Miracle Computer Consultants

ted@dgbt.doc.ca (Ted Grusec) writes:
>In article <1992Apr13.040101.12632@ncsu.edu> tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott Tai) writes:
>>-------------------------
>>INTELLIGENCE AND HEREDITY
>>-------------------------
>>
>
>>life" indicators of ability was provided in a classic study by Terman
>>and his
>>associates at Stanford University.  In the 1920's they selected a total
>>of 1,528
>>children with Stanford-Binet I.Q.'s above 140.  The average I.Q. of the
>>group was
>>152.  These children were investigated periodically over the years up
>>into their
>>adulthood.  (Most of them are now in their fifties.)  Terman found that
>
>Surely, most of them would now be in their SEVENTIES, not in the
>"fifties".  This suggests that the sources being quoted are ancient
>texts, 20 or more years old. Does no-one access current literature and
>evidence?

SEVENTIES?  1992 is 70 years later than the 1920's.  But if the average age
of these children was 10, then they would be in their EIGHTIES.  Suggesting
that the source (which looks like it was typed in verbatium) was circa
1962.  Major time outdated!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Phil Hill                     | "All you people in TV land,           |
| Miracle Computer Consultants  |   I will wake up your empty shells.   |
| Email: phil%miracle@merk.com  |  Peak time viewing blown in a flash,  |
|  -or-  phil.hill@channel1.com |   as I burn into your memory cells.   |
| FAX:   (508)875-3297          |  'cause I'm alive." - Peter Gabriel   |
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: TIME TRAVEL
Date: 7 Apr 92 15:15:51 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Apr6.174351.22059@e2big.mko.dec.com>, moroney@ramblr.enet.dec.com writes:
> In article <1992Apr6.013349.20476@ncsu.edu>, cjdcosta@eos.ncsu.edu (CHRISTOPHER J DCOSTA) writes...
> >From what I remember, this person ( a reasonably reliable guy )
> >told me he'd read about a Navy experiment (in Time, I think) that
> >took place sometime soon after the second world war. A battleship
> >(which is pretty much mostly metal)  was wired up to act as a
> >gigantic electro - magnet and moved to some distance from the shore 
> >so that it was still pretty clearly visible.  When current was passed
> >(and this huge electro magnet activated), people on the shore reported
> >seeing the ship  disappear, then reappear . . I think this happened a
> >number of times. It was believed that the ship had, momentarily, 
> >TRAVELLED IN TIME before returning to the present. Those people on 
> >board the ship at the time were found to be severely disoriented, and
> >I'm not sure if they recovered. 
> 
> This was discussed in another group a while back.  From what people who know
> of the weapons technology of the time, there was a project where they encased

This sounds awfully similar to "The Philadelphia Experiment", a movie 
of around 1982 or so with Michael Pare'.

GMS
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: bathurst@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Bruce Bathurst)
Subject: Re: Unbelievable Jump in GRE Score
Originator: news@ernie.Princeton.EDU
Organization: Princeton University
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 06:04:04 GMT

The last thing I wish to encourage is a discussion of test scores.  (The
interminable discussion of these religious objects normally takes place in
comp.undergrad or some group like that.)

Do people have bad days? 

I think my SAT score was 10 or 12--I had a panic
attack during the exam, brushed it off, and never took it again.

The GRE I took in Switzerland during winter.  Geneva was cold; I was
nearly penniless, and had viral pneumonia.  The first half of the exam
was the "qualitative".  I stopped after a few minutes because I
couldn't read--my eyes wouldn't focus, because they hadn't yet
adjusted to the warmth. I began again when the "quantitative" section
started.

Years after that, I found, graduate schools discussed and argued over
how I could have scored so low on the "qualitative", when I appear
able to read and write.  They seemed to accept my score as proof of my
illiteracy.  Yet my speech and writing worried them.

No one thought to ask.

Bruce
-- 
Department of Geological and Geophysical Sciences
Princeton University, Princeton, NJ 08544
bathurst@phoenix.princeton.edu bathurst@pucc.bitnet !princeton!phoenix!bathurst
From: Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Tai's Lies
Date: 6 Apr 92 09:55:36 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:143/207.1 - Sunnyvale Fido Conn, Sunnyvale CA


Scott Tai writes about "Tai's Lies" to All  [05 Apr 92 23:55]

>>> Mensa doesn't discriminate on the basis of race.  
>>> They discriminate on the basis of test scores.
>> 
>>Which is inherently linked to race.

 >He finally said it, or at least strongly implied it:
>"Minorities can't get into the top 2% because they're not capable of it"
>Scott, I accuse you of being just as biased as you accuse us of being!

ST>  You're wrong. Test scores are generally lower for some groups 
ST> of minorities because of differences in socioeconomic status 
ST> and hereditary factors. 

Liar.  In the first quote, you wrote "Which is inherently linked to race," and
in the second quote, you wrote, "Test scores are generally lower for some groups
of minorities because of differences in socioeconomic status and hereditary
factors."  The first part of the second quote contradicts your first quote.
 The second part of the second quote confirms that you are a racist bigot who
believes that minorities are inherently incapable of being intelligent."

You have branded yourself as a hypocrite, a liar, and a racist bigot.
 
/207 143/207
--  
Mike Steiner
UUCP: uts.amdahl.com!kennel!207.1!Mike.Steiner
INTERNET: Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG
"The views expressed above are those of Mike Steiner only."
From: Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: /T/ Cattell Culture Fair Test
Date: 7 Apr 92 08:00:18 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:143/207.1 - Sunnyvale Fido Conn, Sunnyvale CA


Scott Tai writes about "/T/ Cattell Culture Fair Test" to All  [06 Apr 92 21:46]

>>> Nonsense!  Mensa discriminates on test scores ONLY.  There are many tests
>>> that are fair to race.  Most of them in fact!  There have even been many
>>> developed SPECIFICALLY for different races.  Mensa will accept these test
>>> scores.
>>
>>Like?
 >Like the Cattell Culture Fair test to name one.

ST>  Cattell IQ 148  
ST>   ^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^

Different tests.

ST> I'm curious why the Cattell score required is significantly higher 
( > 15 points) than for any other IQ tests.

Different scale.
 
/207 143/207
--  
Mike Steiner
UUCP: uts.amdahl.com!kennel!207.1!Mike.Steiner
INTERNET: Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG
"The views expressed above are those of Mike Steiner only."
From: phil%miracle@merk.com (Phil Hill)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: /T/T/ 'Herr Goebbels'
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 92 23:05:20 EST
Organization: Miracle Computer Consultants

tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott Tai) writes:
>> Ah! but you clearly assiciate with the alleged Nazi (you have the same
>> opinions).  If we are discriminatory, then we can also practice guilt
>> by association.  You Nzai bastard Tai!
>
>Should've known... more flames from Camp Phil Hill!
>
>When you have something constructive to say, say it.  Until then,
>get out of here.  You're wasting everyone's time!

I'll gladly cut down my postings down to 1/2 of the number of posting you
make.  Stop calling the kettle black.  You are wasting my time.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Phil Hill                     | "All you people in TV land,           |
| Miracle Computer Consultants  |   I will wake up your empty shells.   |
| Email: phil%miracle@merk.com  |  Peak time viewing blown in a flash,  |
|  -or-  phil.hill@channel1.com |   as I burn into your memory cells.   |
| FAX:   (508)875-3297          |  'cause I'm alive." - Peter Gabriel   |
From: mcbeanb@brandonu.ca
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Harsh Language in Recent Post
Date: 4 Apr 92 18:53:38 GMT
Organization: Brandon University, Brandon, Manitoba, Canada

In article <wdr1pCe00WB6IjbExg@andrew.cmu.edu>, 
dh4j+@andrew.cmu.edu (David O Hunt) writes:
>  
> When they take "In God We Trust" off of money, "under God" out of the
> pledge of allegiance, 

Canada doesn't have either of these.

> and "so help me God" out of various oaths I'll
> watch my language.

Which of these oaths have you felt a need to say?
 
> In the meantime, you put up with my language and I'll put up with the
> blatent religiosity in our culture.
> 
I'd appreciate if I didn't have to put up with your language on this
international newsgroup.  No, I'm not going to make a kill file to
censor this language, so don't suggest it. 
> 
> David Hunt 

Brian McBean  -  McBeanB@BrandonU.Ca