From: mhmann@nyx.cs.du.edu (Me Mann)
Subject: Re: scholarship: a joke ? ( was: UM )
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 21:38:12 GMT

In article <28500@life.ai.mit.edu> wslee@almond-frost.ai.mit.edu writes:
>In article <3276@peking.gdwb.oz.au>, mlt@gdwb.oz.au (Mee Teng) writes:
>|> ...... [other stuff deleted] ........                  Talking
>|> about scholarships ? huh what a joke ! How many non-bumi have
>|> that previlege ? not reading newspaper advertisements ? That is
>|> even a greater joke !! The number of scholarships for non-bumi are 
>|> extremely limited if any !! More often than not it's through some
>|> 'connections' that the non-bumi get any scholarships !!  

>	I went to UM with 16 of my high school classmates.  We shared a house 
>in PJ, so we all know each other very well.  All 16 of us are chinese.  11 
>were doing engineering, the rest medicine/dentistry.  All but one were supported 
>by scholarship or a loan.  The one who wasn't, was eligible for a Kojadi (MCA) loan.

Note that a loan is different from a scholarship!!!. Most people can
get a loan if their family can mortgage their property or sign as
collateral.    Furthermore the previous poster was lamenting about 
the difficulty of getting a scholarship if u are non-bumis due to
the very limited numbers or other scholarships either offered
by private bussinesses or philantrophists.

>
>If you are refering to government scholarship, yes, my cousin in UKM was supported
>by a Penang government scholarship.  Yes, two of my juniors went to UK on JPA 
>scholarship.  All of them chinese.  I have no evidence if they had connections, but 
>I think my cousin did not.   

Remember that the number of Chinese in UKM or UTM does not reflect the
precentage of Chinese in M'sia. It is save to say, I think, that the
number of Chinese that are qualified far out number the qouta alot
tothem. In UTM when I was admited non-bumis account for about 16 % of
the new in take. Out of this 16 % I wonder how many have a gorventment
scholarship? Not me and the few other chinese I knew. It did not take
me long to quit and return to my school to do my A levels.  Yes, most
Chinese who are good are supported by scholarships, especially those
who can make the grades but many more who are deserving, people who
could only manage say 2As would be hard pressed to get one . Aas for
gorvenment sscholarships, perhaps only a token number are given. Can
someone supply some statistics? This is similar to saying well Chinese
do get admitted to Med/Engine in the local U so it is not difficult
for Chinese to get into these courses but the fact is many derserving
ones are not admitted.

>
>	For overseas studies, me and my brother came here on a scholarship, 
>given by the school.  My other brother went to Virginia on a scholarship.  
>I don't think we had any connections.  None of us got 5 A's in STPM.

U have to be careful here. Is it assistantship or scholarship?  
The majority of the grads in US are supported by assistantship
which requires you to perform services in return.

>
>	IMHO, it is true that scholarships are hard to get nowadays. Very hard
>indeed.  But I do agree with Othman's reasoning to some extent:
>

>eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Othman Ahmad) writes:
>|> How come these students do not get scholarships for overseas studies, whereas
>|> some who are not as qualified can?

Very true and you know who most of them are?  No prize for the correct 
answer. 

>|>	One reason is that they do not even apply or read newspaper 
>|> advertisements for scholarship application. This actually happened in one
>|> case quoted by a bumiputra colleague.
>|> 	How about Kwok Scholarship, Colombo Plan etc.? What other criteria
>|> is required for eligibility? I thought 5A is the highest possible. Who wants
>|> to have more? 
>

The suggestions of exhausting all possibility is a very good one.  It
does not only apply to getting scholarship but in almost everything
one do.  The lament is there are few M'sian scholarships available for
CHinese (Indian) considering the number of derserving or qqualified
ones compared to the bumis. These stats. are obvious if you look
around you in many campuses in the US.  The majority of M'sians in
most cases are bumis and they are here on scholarship. On other hand
you will find some Chinese, more in some places and less in others, but
almost all are here either on their own (undergrads esp) or are under
some form of assistantship given by their University here in the US.


>Yes, Mee Teng, it is very very hard to get a scholarship nowadays, but IMHO,
>it is still possible, given enough effort.

Well, few things come easy. 

>
>	I think that some of us tend to blame it all on the government, 
>on "the system" ...  it may or may not be true, I don't know. It seems all
>too easy to point fingers.  But I recall a saying in chinese: "when the horse dies, 

I do not agree with you here.  It is obvious that  the bulk of the 
gorvenment scholarships are taken up by the bumis.. you mean there
is nothing wrong with such a system?  I guess it depends on which end you
stand. I find many M'sian Chinese very forgiving and treat M'sia
as their country with great loyalty despite all the double standards.
I find it hard to swallow when Zam (long forgotten?) questioned
their loyalty and ability to speak /wrrite Bahasa Malaysia. 




>ins877s@lindblat.cc.monash.edu.au (Mr Tan Teong Hooi) writes:
>|>  >There are a lot of questions and inconsisistencies about the chinese students
>|>  >in Malaysia. I hope someone can clarify them for me.
>|>  >How come these students do not get scholarships for overseas studies, whereas
>|>  >some who are not as qualified can?


I guess the other knows where the opportunities are.  You can also ask
why the big towkay who does not even know how to write his own name
can ride a Benz and live in big houses and many who are more educated
don`t?

>
>	It is interesting to note that I am one of the less qualified ones, as
>compared to many of my classmates who got 5 A's in STPM.  But I came here on a
>full financial aid package. Don't ask me why, I don't know either ..
>Perhaps they just liked me ??

Well can you clarify your financial aid package.... again remember
that assistantship is different from scholarship or fellowship. MOst
people that I know of in Grad school have financial aid in the form
of assistantship, either teaching or research. Very few have
scholarship or fellow ship.  Assistanship is given without to heavy
an emphasis on scholarship as long as you can get admitted and there
is enough $$$ to go around. Very very few financial aids packages are
given to foreign undergrads. 


>	On the other hand, with regards to the advertisements, there do exist 
>certain such advertisements that say "only bumitras need apply" , a sad
>reality .... 
>

Oh well, this "certain aadvertisments" happens to account for most of
the scholarships available at least in M'sia. Hey you do seem to admit
to this sad reality.





-Mann