HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rakoczynskij@gtephx.UUCP (Jurek Rakoczynski)
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.tech,rec.autos.driving,rec.motorcycles
Subject: Re: ++WHAT ARE BEST OILS FOR CAR/BIKE??++
Date: 22 Jul 92 16:55:30 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: AG Communication Systems, Phoenix, Arizona

In article <1992Jul21.145114.2326@linus.mitre.org>, cookson@mbunix.mitre.org (Cookson) writes:
> In article <1992Jul21.093831.28508@mr.med.ge.com> hinz@bonfire (David Hinz Mfg 4-6987) writes:

[Various parts of text deleted]
> >with a DECENT filter, right?  Sure, the oil doesn't suffer from thermal or
> >viscousity breakdown (probably), but what about all the crap floating around
> >in it?  H2O, carbon, gasoline, metal shavings, etc. just sit there in your
> >oil & filter, running through your engine, with nowhere to go for 25,000 miles
> 
> Uh, does your engine ever get warmer that 212 Deg. F??  I would be it does.
> Therefore you don't have H2O in your oil...  (Boils out, don't you know).

> Dean
Dean, don't assume an engine up to operating temperature will have oil
sump temps over 212F.  In my limited testing using my Chevy 350 cid in
a `83 Suburban, in urban/highway driving and idling conditions, I have
seen some driving combinations where I won't see oil sump temp climb
over 130F with 85F air temp and 1/2 hr driving.  Even with 110F air
temp like we have now, I've seen oil temp as low as 150F.  Assuming
that a street engine won't exceed a typically accepted max oil temp
rise of 25F coming out of the rod bearings, your still talking only
175F oil temp.  All of this with water temp stabilized at ~200F.

Now granted this is only in some driving conditions, but it does show
that you can't assume oil temp will be > 212F.  I've also seen the oil
sump temp climb to 260F.  I have a hypothesis that at 1500+ rpm (oil
thrown all over the place in the crankcase) and the increase air flow
through the PCV system has a significant cooling effect on the oil.

In a few months, I'll put a sensor in the rear end and check out the
temps there.
-- 
Jurek Rakoczynski, AG Communication Systems, POB 52179, Phoenix, AZ. 85072
UUCP: ...!{ncar!noao!enuucp | att}!gtephx!rakoczynskij  Voice: +1 602 581 4867
Inet: gtephx!rakoczynskij@enuucp.eas.asu.edu              Fax: +1 602 582 7111
Inet: /DD.UN=J.RAKOCZYNSKI/O=GTE/PRMD=GTEMAIL/ADMD=TELEMAIL/C=US/@sprint.com
From: rkushner@sycom.mi.org (Ronald Kushner)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: OSHA new requirements...
Distribution: usa
X-BBS-Software: EXCELSIOR! v0.95r
Date: 23 Jul 92 21:00:35 EST
Organization: Michigan Information eXchange

I recently learned that O.S.H.A will soon start requiring employeers to make 
sure employees wear seat belts and helmets if they drive a car/truck or 
motorcycle on company time. If an employee gets pulled over on company 
time and isn't wearing a seat belt, the employeer gets a big fine. There 
is no minumum company size that this requirement - a mom and pop shop with
son/daughter picking up a box on nails will fall under this rule. 

The really screwed part of this regulation is that these companys have to
put anyone who drives any kind of vehicle(even their own) on company time
into a drivers education course yearly. 

What does Uncle Sam want? Us to babysit our workers while they are driving?
How can you know for sure he's going to wear a seat belt?  Is this just free
money for the government?
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: How much is too much for a Used Car ?
From: chris@dranet.dra.com
Date: 22 Jul 92 16:09:44 CDT
Distribution: world
Organization: Data Research Associates, St. Louis MO

Being a first time used car buyer, I am a bit
naive to how the game works.  

Heres my situation:

I want to get an '88 Acura Integra-LS with about 50,xxx
to 60,xxx miles on it.

I've checked to books (NADA and Edmunds) and they say the
average retail of this car is about $7000 - $7500. The local
dealers, however, are starting the price of this type of car
at about $9000 and up.

My question is that do the dealers really jack up the price
of these cars by $2000?  

... or maybe are these cars costing more than average in this 
region due to scarcity (or other reasons)? 

Bottom line:  Am I getting screwed if I pay more than $7500
              for this car ???


Any advice would be GREATLY appriciated.


Chris Yunker
From: roman@tug.Corp.Sun.COM (Roman Cooper)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: 1990 Honda Accord LX 4 Door For Sale
Date: 30 Jul 1992 22:38:11 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: roman@tug.Corp.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: tug.corp.sun.com

like new, automatic, loaded, 27K miles, alarm

$11,900

415-336-5355 or e-mail roman@Sun.COM 



Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.tech,rec.driving
From: gardell@ccrs.emr.ca (Felix Gardell)
Subject: Rust on underside of Volvo --- flaw in design?
Organization: Canada Centre for Remote Sensing, Ottawa
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 04:10:25 GMT

This is my first post to these auto-related newsgroups, 
but I thought there must be someone out there somewhere
who may be able to help me with this problem.

Please excuse my ignorance, should this have been a FAQ, but
I don't follow this newsgroup as religiously as others.

The problem car: an '83 Volvo Diesel. (GL-series)  
The problem: rust on only one particular area underneath the car

The Question:  The body and underside of this 9-year old
car are in great shape --- despite years of winter-driving
(in the harsh Canadian winters where much salt is used on the
roads).  Only one area of the car has major rust problems:
The area under the drivers seat :( !! 

So I'll have to get body work done if I don't want to end up
with nasty road-rash (pardon the pun ... but it has happened 
to some!).

GL-Volvos and other upper-end Volvo models have HEATED driver's
seats!  Could this have accelerated the rust process?  This
is the ONLY explanation I would have for this phenonmenon ....
other than the fact that the driver's side gets splashed with    
the salty-slush of opposing  traffic more often.

Should you have a Volvo with a heated driver's seat, check it out!
Please e-mail me with any words of wisdom to my e-mail account,
as I don't follow this newsgroup regularly.

Thanks for your help!

Happy motoring!


-- 
Felix Gardell                                      Work:  " A generation ago    
Canada Centre for Remote Sensing    _     , -o     most people finished a 
Energy Mines and Resources Canada    _   _ \<,_    day's work and needed a rest;
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada             -   (*)' (*)   today, they need exercise! "
From: cdodson@beast.cac.stratus.com (R. Craig Dodson)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Sentra E vs. Saturn SL
Date: 22 Jul 92 15:08:25 GMT
Reply-To: cdodson@beast.cac.stratus.com

In article <92203.202309NAZ@auvm.american.edu> NAZ@auvm.american.edu (Naz  
Reyes) writes:
> In article <1992Jul18.192721.1414@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>,
> ac579@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (G.C.J. Timm) says:
> >
> >Don't forget that C&D was comparing apples to oranges,
> >the Nissan Sentra E, nice as it is, is still a TWO DOOR coupe,
> >the Saturn is a FOUR DOOR Sedan for the same money!
> >
> >Now if you compare the Nissan 4-door to the Saturn SL,
> >or the Nissan Sentra GXE to the SL2 you might have a better
> >showing.
> 
> Now, if you compare the Saturn SL2 to the Nissan Sentra SE-R, you'll
> *definitely* find some amazing results :-)  Hmm, maybe I'll post the
> Sentra SE-R and the Saturn SL2's tests!!!!  But, of course, I'm sure
> that Saturn enthusiasts won't allow me to do that :-)
> 
> -Naz
> 
> >
> >Let us pray for Balance shafts on the Saturn 1.9.....
> >
> >Jeff

Amazing results ?  Hardly. Yes, please post the tests. I know from driving
both cars what you'll find. The SE-R is marginally quicker according to the
numbers, but I'll take the superior torque of the Saturn engine any day. 
Again, you are letting magazine reviews run your life, instead of actually
driving both cars and posting YOUR opinions (as I'm doing now).
You'll also find the SL2 has better brakes (when ABS equipped), has larger
and wider wheels and tires - giving better handling, more interior room, and  
it's a Saturn (excellent dealer service, roadside assistance, etc).

Any of us can read reviews by the automotive press. Not all of us will take
their reviews as gospel. Put the magazines away and go drive some cars. Or
won't they let you ?

Craig Dodson (Stratus Computer)
cdodson@beast.cac.stratus.com
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: rvkl60@aus18a25.sps.mot.com (Tom Mathes)
Subject: Re: Unmarked COP Cars (Was Re: More CHP shit!)
Organization: Motorola Inc, Austin, Texas
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 22:57:39 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.195336.4148@sura.net> nunn@sura.net (Deborah Nunn) writes:
>
>I have seen a few nontraditional unmarked cop cars myself recently.  One
>guy was pulled over on the side of the road by an unmarked car -- the
>only way I could tell was because it had the lights in the grill.  No
>tell-tale antennaes and -- get this -- the copy was dressed like someone
>going to work (white shirt, tie, etc.).  He didn't even hae a uniform
>on.

If you want to see *really* stealthy unmarked highway patrol cars, check
out what North Carolina does (at least used to before I left in 1986).
Each county had at least 2 unmarked Mustang GTs, with no lightbars on
the roof nor any funny looking antennas.  In fact, the flashing lights 
were mounted in behind the grille, and could only be seen when you were 
already nailed.  These cars were NOT the standard issue cruisers that are
so easy to spot.  They were nicely made up, often with raised white letter 
or blackwall Goodyear Eagles VRs and nice looking alloy rims.  They were 
in pretty colors like red, blue, or silver; no ugly browns or tans.  Often they
had some rather nice looking racing stipes on them to boot.  They looked just
like a Mustang a typical performance enthusiast would buy.  The only way to 
tell it was a cop car was from behind.  In NC, all H/P plates start out with 
HP.  Also, cars are not required to have front plates, so it was often hard 
to figure out if an oncoming 'Stang was HP.  I always got scared whenever I 
saw a Mustang near me.

I bet they still do that; maybe Camaros are also used now.  Any North
Carolinians out there want to verify this?  I'll be in Raleigh in a
few weeks, and any info is greatly appreciated :-).

Tom Mathes                                e-mail : rvkl60@aus18a25.sps.mot.com
Motorola Inc. / MOS Memory Products Div.  phone  : (512) 928-7627
Austin, Texas
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: ehud@eng.umd.edu (Ehud Oentung)
Subject: Advice: Hyundai Sonata
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 14:35:12 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park, College of Engineering
Distribution: usa
Originator: ehud@coke.eng.umd.edu

I need advice on buying Hyundai Sonata.
Would anybody tell me any bad/good/complaint about that kind of car?

Thanx.
Ehud.

-- 
Ehud Oentung				   email: ehud@eng.umd.edu
Assistant Network Manager			  ehud@bss1.umd.edu
University Of Maryland at College Park            ehud@wam.umd.edu
College of BSOS, Computer Lab Department    (W) : (301) 405-7391
From: bourland@roentgen.radonc (J. Daniel Bourland)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Toyota Landcruisers - FJ40 info
Date: 23 Jul 92 20:05:31 GMT
Reply-To: bourland@roentgen.radonc
Organization: Mayo Clinic/Foundation

I am looking for information on the model FJ40 Toyota Land-
cruiser (the 1960 - 1980's one that looks similar to a Jeep).
I do have a catalog/technical manual from Specter Off-Road,
Inc. in CA, but I am more interested in details concerning
the engineering and operation of the Landcruiser.  For
instance, I have heard that the straight 6 can sometimes
blow the head gasket, and I know the rear quarter of the
body rusts out like crazy (also the mount points of the
front fenders).

I am curious to know other folks experiences or pointers
to articles on Landcruisers.  Would YOU own such a truck?
(There is quite a following in CA)

Do we have a rec.trucks.4x4 newsgroup or equivalent?

Thanks for the info - I can post a summary if I get enough
responses.


-------------------------------------------------------------
J. Daniel Bourland, PhD	      
Div. of Radiation Oncology
Mayo Clinic, Desk R 
Rochester, MN 55905            
(507) 284-3551                  Internet:   bourland@mayo.edu
-------------------------------------------------------------
From: shin@tara.SanDiego.NCR.COM (Chang Shin)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: mini vans
Date: 29 Jul 92 23:33:23 GMT
Reply-To: shin@tara.SanDiego.NCR.COM (Chang Shin)
Organization: NCR Corporation, Rancho Bernardo


I am sorry if this is one of FAQs.

I am thinking about buy a mini van, and I don't know what to buy. Can someone
in net.land tell me which van is better than which?

I don't intend to tow, it will be used for just carrying kids and for a travel
once in a while.

price range: it would be nice if it is under $20,000, but I can handle it if
it goes upto $23,000.

So if you have one of many minivans, I appreciate your experience greatly.

Oh, one more thing. I heard that you can buy a car from some brokers instead
of from car dealer. Do I get a good deal this way?

Thanks in advance!

-Chang
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: aalis@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu (Andy A. Liss)
Subject: "New Toyota and Lexus coming to the States"
Organization: San Francisco State University
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 08:23:15 GMT

Today's AutoWeek contains the spy pictures of the new Lexus GS 300
(Toyota Aristo elsewhere) and the next Toyota Supra.  The Lexus
GS 300 will be positioned between Lexus ES 300 (Camry cousin)
and LS 400.  It is designed by Giugiarro, and had already been
shown in public in Tokyo Auto Show.  The only difference between
Toyota Aristo and Lexus, besides their names and badges: I noticed
from the spy picture, the U.S. version will have a red side marker
on its back bumpers.  For marketing considerations, both Lexus
GS 300 and the new Supra won't be offered with their top of the 
line engine in the U.S. because Lexus doesn't want its GS 300
to be more powerful than its top of the line LS 400, and in the   
Supra's case, doesn't want it to have more power/features than
Lexus own coupe SC 400/300
	The new supra will looks a bit like the new Honda Prelude,
a bit like Toyota Celica GT, and a dash of Porsche combined.
    	Hope this will be useful info.

- Andy -
From: bibbo@moncol.monmouth.edu (The Monk!)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Chrysler LeBaron
Date: 27 Jul 92 18:52:31 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Monmouth College, W. Long Branch, N.J.  07764


I am thinking about buying a LeBaron and, never having owned a Chrysler
car before, was wondering if there are any LeBaron owners out there who
who have any interesting information (good or bad).

thank you...

--
Steven R. Bibbo                       NET   : bibbo@moncol.monmouth.edu
  Computer Operations                   PRO   : DCMB45A  
    Monmouth College                      FAX   : (908)571-3535
      West Long Branch, NJ  USA             AT&T  : (908)571-3559
From: gss@btcase.bt.co.uk (Graham Sewell)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Location of radar detectors
Date: 31 Jul 92 10:59:09 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: British Telecom, Lion House, London.

In the UK, the idea of radar detectors is subject to a revival because
of the new photo-traps.  Therefore, I am looking for some advice from
the net regarding these cunning little devices.

From magazines, I gather the major products in this country are Cobra,
Bell and Uniden.  Each company can offer 3 band (including Ka) with
stealth facilities.

Now for the hard part:

As Passport and Escort model (recently discussed on the net) seem to be
absent in the UK, which of these products are good?

Looking through the brochures, they all mention visor, windscreen and
dashboard mounting.  Does this imply that such a device would be less
effective if mounted lower in the car (on the centre console)?

Prices in the UK are around UK#220 for one of these models, this seems
high compared to prices discussed on the net.  Are US model effective in
the UK, and if so where is a good source?

Thanks in advance...



-- 
Graham Sewell                          Tel   +44 71 728 4851
Unix TP and Database Unit              Fax   +44 71 728 4883
PP506, Lion House, 72-75 Red Lion St, LONDON. WC1R 4RT
gss@btcase.bt.co.uk
From: gurganus@maize.ecn.purdue.edu (J Gurganus)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: 1989 Ford Tempo problem
Date: 24 Jul 92 15:06:51 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

knotts@hpl-opus.hpl.hp.com (Tom Knotts) writes:


>> > Awhile back I posted a question about my fuel pump
>> > on my Ford Tempo and got many helpful responses.

>> I have a 1988 Ford Tempo whose checkered history includes a recent

>We recently bought an 89 Tempo for my wife. Shortly after getting it,
>the automatic seatbelts started jamming (after it hit the sun visor
>twice). Apparently a plastic gear stripped. Then I noticed on one
>of the many used car books that the Tempo was rated as unreliable.

I had a 4 door 1987 Ford Sport Tempo (the "enhanced 2.3L").  I never
had any problems with it at all.  I found it to be an
extremely reliable car.  As long as I kept the fuel injectors
clean and did other miscellaneous maintenance, it never failed
to get me where I was going.   The worst thing I ever had
happen was when I broke a transmission mount going a little
fast over a hill.  8)

--
James Gurganus
(gurganus@ecn.purdue.edu)
From: mcostell@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Malcolm G. Costello)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: J.C. Whittney Catalog
Date: 24 Jul 92 19:39:06 GMT
Reply-To: mcostell@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Malcolm G. Costello)
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD

In rec.autos, mfedas@provx30.intel.com (Mark Fedasiuk ~) writes:
>I have not been following this group, but I need some help. I use to get
>J.C. Whittney catalogs all the time, but have not seen them for a while.
>Does anyone know a phone number I can call to get one again???
(312) 431-6102 24 hrs/day 7 days/week or maill to:
J.C. Whitney & Co.
1917-19 Archer Avenue
PO Box 8410
Chicago, Illinois 60680
>
Locally, you could try Pep Boys, Hi Gear, the Sears Catalog even,
a camping supply or 4-wheel-drive store.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mack Costello <mcostell@oasys.dt.navy.mil> Code 1720.1       ?
David Taylor Model Basin, Carderock Division Hq. NSWC    ___/-\____
Bethesda, MD 20084-5000   Phone (301) 227-2431          (__________>|

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.tech,rec.driving
From: garland@dcss.mcmaster.ca (W.J.Garland)
Subject: Re: Rust on underside of Volvo --- flaw in design?
Organization: Department of Computer Science, McMaster University
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 17:29:57 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.142419.12835@engage.pko.dec.com> wiryaman@riscee.pko.dec.com (Santa Wiryaman) writes:
>In article <1992Jul28.041025.1942@emr1.emr.ca> gardell@ccrs.emr.ca (Felix Gardell) writes:
>>
>>The Question:  The body and underside of this 9-year old
>>car are in great shape --- despite years of winter-driving
>>(in the harsh Canadian winters where much salt is used on the
>>roads).  Only one area of the car has major rust problems:
>>The area under the drivers seat :( !! 
>>
>
>Could it be because the driver's shoes carry snow, sand and salt into the car?
>The dampness of the carpet because of this can be a perfect condition for rust
>making.  I once had a '78 Scirocco that had this problem.  The rust ate through
>the floor and the metal that holds the driver's seat.  I was not a happy camper
>when suddenly the seat went loose.
>
>>
>>-- 
>>Felix Gardell
>
>-- 
>Santa Wiryaman
>
>INTERNET : wiryaman@riscee.pko.dec.com
>UUCP     : ...!decwrl!riscee.pko.dec.com!wiryaman

I suspect the problem is the muck carried in by the driver, as stated above.
I have had 2 Volvos but no rust problems underneath because I oiled them and 
because I bought the Volvo placemats.  They were expensive but I am on my 3rd
car and they show no signs of wear.  The mats are rubber and have a waffle design.  Hard to clean but they catch 99.9% of the slop.  The carpet underneath
stays clean and dry.  My 77 Rabbit had poor mats, was oiled like the Volvos
and ended up with a badly rusted floor on the driver's side.  QED.
From: rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Camaro/Firebird clubs in Chicago area?
Keywords: camaro firebird club chicago
Date: 22 Jul 92 18:47:32 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

In article <1992Jul22.145954.25540@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com> butler@quest.comm.mot.com (Jim Butler) writes:
>
>	Is anyone aware of a Camaro/Firebird (GM F body) special interest
>group in the Chicago or Chicago suburban area?  I'm interested in getting
>all of the information I can on the '70-'81 model years (interchanging
>parts, axles, brakes, etc., etc.)
>
>	I appreciate any help.
>
>	Jim
>

there is a special interest group that knows a lot about those cars....
car thieves.
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.driving
From: mperlman@nyx.cs.du.edu (Marshal "Airborne" Perlman)
Subject: Re: More CHP shit!
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 01:25:03 GMT

cottle@b11.b11.ingr.com (Tim Cottle) writes:

>In article <1992Jul21.060345.3258@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, mperlman@nyx.cs.du.edu (Marshal "Airborne" Perlman) writes:
>> 
>> Gosh..I am glad I am moving to Florida soon...I also have seen white on white
>> cruisers..but those are easy to see with the light bar and / or drop light.
>> 
>> BTW..the interceptors had NO DROP LIGHTS..but i saw the damn shotgun!
>> 


>Not to bust your bubble or anything, but the FHP also runs Interceptors.
>Some of them have lightbars, generally Federal Airdynecs, and some of them do
>not.  All the FHP Mustangs I have seen, though, have been fully marked (black
>body, tan roof, FHP seal on the door).

>I have also heard that FHP is experimenting with mobile Ka radar sets, but I
>have no confirmation of that.  The FHP was one of the first agencies to run
>K band radar.


> --

Well..I'll just have to go out  and get the Best damn radar detector
around huh? Actually..I don't speed much anymore...but technically
speaking..I could get a ticket for doing 35 in a 25 zone...I've layed
off the high speed stuff recently...just because..I dunno
i saw a high speed crash and it scared the hell out of me.

FHP sounds funny......heh..reminds me of a Health Maint. Org...
CHP sounds smooth..ftp doesn't..
--
==============================  *  Marshal Perlman               * DO
=-> mperlman@nyx.cs.du.edu <-=  *  Huntington Beach, California  * NOT
==============================  *  (Surf City, U.S.A)            * EAT
___ANYONE UNDER 18 IS A MINER___
From: f4ax@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Info wanted on the history of speed enforcement
Date: 29 Jul 92 08:46:29 EDT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Cornell University

Does anyone out there know the history of speed enforcement and radar and
the various other methods used to calculate the speed of an automobile over
time.  I was sitting here wondering when speed traps began and how it has
advanced over time to what it is today.  When were the first radar guns and
detectors developed?  A brief history lesson would be greatly appreciated on
all aspects if anyone knows it!!

-Jason
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: matth@progress.COM (Matthew J. Harper)
Subject: Re: IT'S YOUR FAULT!
Organization: Progress Software Corp.
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 17:09:47 GMT

blosser_cy@lrc.edu writes:

>You filthy money-grubbing, rich capitalist pigs driving fast sports cars and
>gas-guzzling automobiles, polluting the air with the nauseating stench of ex
>haust, creating acid rain, and melting a gaping hole in the ever-diminishing
>ozone layer...it's all your fault this world is so f--ked up!!! If everybody
>got rid of their automobiles, we'd have a much nicer environment to leave to 
>our children!!!! 

Nothing like a well thought out articulate message...
--
          Matthew J. Harper ! Progress Software Corp. ! {disclaimer.i}         
   God created heaven and earth to grow barley and hops. Now he homebrews !-)  
Newsgroups: rec.autos