From: Gordon.Benedict@f49.n134.z1.fidonet.org (Gordon Benedict)
Newsgroups: k12.chat.teacher
Subject: RE: Freedom of speech
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 92 17:11:56 PDT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:134/49 - The Student Exchang, Calgary Alta

    Hi Ted,

 TK> I read Topping's original diatribe, but was unable to
 TK> determine exactly what
 TK> inappropriate postings he was alluding to over on 
 TK> K12SeniorChat.  Curious, I
 TK> took a random tour there, and found nothing 
 TK> particularly objectionable, which
 TK> I must admit, was a bit of a dissappointment, given 
 TK> Frank Toppings' promise
 TK> that there were evil doings being done.

     99% of the time, that is exactly what will happen.

 TK> Seriously, Frank, if you still lurk here, or Gordon, or Ken, are there
 TK> pedophiles making inappropriate suggestions in 
 TK> Sen.Chat?

     I've noticed as much as you have.  We have had the occasional
     vulgar messages arrive, some from students and some from supposed
     adults.  Astute K12Net sysops read the sysop message area for
     alerts to these messages and act accordingly.  Moderators also
     sent netmail (quickly, I might add) to the sysop of the system
     used by the offending person.  I personally restrict writing
     access to all message areas and make a phone call to mom/dad
     of the user.  This has always been effective.  Only once have I
     ever had to disallow completely a user from using the system,
     and that was a belligerent grade 8 who thought 4 letter words
     should be standard usage amongst his kind.  I thought differently.


 TK> I know administrators who have dedicated their
 TK> careers to avoiding any decision that might get them criticized.

     I wonder what sort of creative students they were!  Why does the
     word "snivelling" come to mind?  There are administrators who nix
     such things without even looking at what they are rejecting. I
     can't take such people seriously or even consider them in anything
     we attempt to accomplish.

 TK> It crossed my mind, as I read Frank Topping's posting, that had I
 TK> been "touring" K12Net with one or two of our district's less courageous
 TK> decision makers, we'd be pretty much finished at about that point.

     How do these same administrators react when a teacher sends a
     student to the office for swearing in class?

 TK> So, for those of us who work in districts that rank "freedom of speech"
 TK> a distant second to "freedom from conflict," what's the story?

     Frankly (pardon the pun) I see no way around this.  If you consider
     Frank's suggestions, he wants all teachers/students/parents/users
     at large to sign contracts with the sysops that they will act
     according to a set of predetermined rules.  Lawyers exist,
     especially in the USA where they are so numerous, for the very
     reason that people breach contracts on a regular basis.  They
     guarantee nothing.  A promise is only as good as the people who
     make them.  Frank has also suggested that all messages should be
     pre-read and checked for appropriateness before being released
     into the network.  I can't even imagine how this would be
     technologically feasible, never mind humanly possible.  I don't
     think he has put much thought into his ramblings.

     None of us is in favour of having bad messages come through the
     network.  We have to be constantly on the alert for them and, when
     one is found, it means extra, unpleasant work.  There are very few
     messages arriving that could be considered as extremely bad. When
     they do come through, we have even been known to phone long-distance
     to other sysops to alert them so they could delete them before
     "Mrs. Smith's grade 4 class" got to them.

     Frank has other motives for his actions and his crusade is not
     just an end in itself but merely a path to glorious recognition.
     He is not a teacher and has never been.  I don't think he is even
     a parent.  You will notice that Frank does not talk on other
     subjects other than to loosely describe how the King and Queen
     of this country or the Ambassador of that one met him in Sacramento
     for one or another glorious event.  My belief is that this is
     because he knows nothing of education and/or schools.  He has
     nothing to say on the topic so he must ramble about unAmerican
     activities, vile youth, molesters lurking behing bushes in
     schoolyards.... Does a certain senator's name come to mind?

     As a teacher, I'm sure you are aware that kids will act out once
     in a while and say things that get them into trouble.  Teachers
     don't condone these things but they do happen and we learn to live
     with them and take them in stride.  We do not go "supernova" and
     over-react every time we hear a 4 letter word or an 18 year old
     student mentions the word "beer."

     Gord


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