HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: slzm9@cc.usu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: The Duality of Elvis Fans
Date: 12 Aug 92 16:37:17 MDT
Organization: Utah State University
Summary: Why Love Elvis?
Keywords: Elvis, Groupies, Satirists
Distribution: world

   There seem to me to be two sets of Elvis lovers. The first is
the stupid, vacuous rabid fan types that have analogous folks
worshipping New Kids on the Block, Vanilla Ice, Michael Jackson etc.
These people are just folks that need someone to worship and something
in the crooning of Elvis stirs them. Also many of them come from
the working class, and that's where Elvis started. So, they could
see him as an example of someone escaping. This could add to
their intrigue with Elvis.
   The US Postal Service's search for the appropriate Elvis image
made this group happy because it validated their cult hero.

   The second group is the bunch of folks that the first poster was
referring to in his post, I think. There is a small group of people
that like Elvis for satirical reasons. They understand that Elvis
was a stupid, vacuous, drug-using overweight white male with a
good singing voice. And in America that person can become bigger
than a super-star they can become a legend, superhuman even. The
satire is that it is ridiculous that Elvis is a legend so they
like him because it appeals to their sense of the ridiculous.
   That ridiculous satirical like of Elvis is the joke that you
don't get. Probably because you don't have as strong a sense of
the ridiculous as them or you find it just too sad to be funny.
But remember death is too sad to be funny and it has plenty of funny jokes
made about it.
   The US Postal Service's search made these people laugh even harder
because they saw it as the validation of a ridiculous image perpetuated
for the masses by a government intent on the inane and senseless.

   I have three friends in this second group. They trade Elvis albums
and play it sometimes but not much. More that anything they are into BIG
Elvis symbols and weird and gaudy images:

Friend 1:  "Church of Elvis" t-shirt. Slogan - "Open 24 hours".
Friend 2:  Huge, bigger than life size, poster of young Elvis
           on the door of his bedroom.
Friend 3:  Elvis portrait painted on black velvet. This item
           was quite hard to get he informs me.
           Friend 3's other favorites: Frank Sinatra, Doris Day,
           Terminator 2, "Spinal Tap". Do you see a trend?

   I understand the humor but don't really share in it. But you
can tell the two groups apart usually by talking about the music.
The first group, call them Elvis groupies, know something about
the music, often quite a bit and usually have a favorite song
or two that they play a lot. The second group, call them Elvis
satirists, don't know much about the music. The satirist wants
to talk about his Elvis clock , her Elvis underwear, his Elvis
hajj to Graceland, her vision of the live Elvis in South America.

I hope all this has cleared up this rather inane question for you.

Peace, but not without justice,

Zip
From: mjcarpen@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Michael J. Carpenter)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Johns vs. Carpenter
Date: 20 Aug 92 22:30:07 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

In article <1992Aug20.191833.16917@morrow.stanford.edu> HF.GTD@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gabrielle Daniels) writes:
>In article <1992Aug20.154452.5825@athena.cs.uga.edu>,
>heath@athena.cs.uga.edu (Terrance Heath) writes in response to my
>article of <1992Aug19.182358.18680@morrow.stanford.edu>
>HF.GTD@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gabrielle Daniels) to
><36774@uflorida.cis.ufl.edu> djohns@elm.circa.ufl.edu (David A.
>Johns)'s conversation with
>>>1992Aug14.222604.6413@gn.ecn.purdue.edu>
>mjcarpen@gn.ecn.purdue.edu >>(Michael J.  Carpenter)
>.
>[Lotsa stuff ditched]
>.
>And at the end I say, Thats why most black women will stick like
>glue to the brothers REGARDLESS.
>.
>Then the brother says, Uh, I was with you all the way until you got
>to this "REGARDLESS" business. I'd like to know just what you
>mean by regardless, because I beleive there are certain black women
>who would be better off not sticking to certain brothers.  The word
>"REGARDLESS" bothers me here, because it seems to deny the
>possiblity of abuse.
>.
>I knew that was going to come up.  No, that's not what I am saying,
>nor do I promote sisters staying with brothers no matter what. I'm
>not Shahrazad Ali by any stretch of the imagination. All I am saying
>is, most black women will stick with brothers regardless.  They will
>try, at least, to make it work or stick it out.


If I may add, I'd like to think that there is no "regardless" about it. The
Black men out there that don't think down the lines you've drawn are definitely
out there; I don't think any of my friends are disrespectful of women at
all. And, despite the frustration both men and women have in regards to finding
a love interest for real, I can say to some of the women out there that you
haven't met *my* friends, at least. In other words, I don't feel Black women
should feel they are trying to avoid the "worst of two evils." The Black
*men* are out there. Please note I am purposefully ignoring inter-racial
relationships for the sake of avoiding taking this topic astray.

>No. Period. What I am saying is that the HISTORY of black female,
>white male relationships, overall, has not been very positive,
>although some of that is changing, albeit slowly. As a black woman,
>I've had to look with askance at any white guy giving me a
>line--any line. Probably even more than a white woman.  You just
>wonder whether this is for real...or Memorex.

Something that tripped me out is that, according to my sister, the white
young women in her high school (which was predominantly white) started going
out with the black young men, but she characterized the predominance of 
those relationships as a "fad". I can't say either way 'cause I was not privy
to the haps at her school. When she mentioned this, though, it was something
to think about.

Mc
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american,ca.politics,talk.politics.misc
From: frankli@seq.uncwil.edu (william carter franklin)
Subject: Re: Is Crime a non-issue for Blacks
Organization: Univ. of North Carolina @ Wilmington
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 19:13:40 GMT

nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes:

>  ..............   Moreover crime statistics, especially
>  burglary ones, indicate that most crime is same-race crime:
>  whites are more likely to prey on other whites and blacks are
>  more likley to prey on blacks.   There are both cultural and
>  opportunistic reasons for this.  



>---peter

According to the Atlantic Monthly, Blacks committing violent crimes
chose white victims most of the time.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: HF.GTD@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gabrielle Daniels)
Subject: Arsenio said it!
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 19:54:03 GMT

I saw Arsenio last night talking about George Herbert Hoover Bush's
health problems in his monologue. Among other interesting tidbits,
he stated that either he thinks or has read that Bush has trouble
remembering things or stops talking in the middle of sentences.
.
Remember what I said about Halcion. It can cause amnesia, among
other things. If the stuff ain't working on him now...
.
Campaigning is a rigorous exercise, causing those arduous trips that
Dr. Burton Lee was talking about recently. Remember when Ronnie
Ramjet Reagan was president, and he also was at a loss for words and
Nancy with the Retin A face had to correct him?  Look for a telling
exhibit from Bush that shows he's not exactly in control...
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 14:56:53 EDT
From: <KRB104@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Violent crime stats from a reliable source

  I am tired of Mr. Franklin throwing our violent crime statistics that are
bogus.  I have just looked up statistics on the topic.  These statistics are
from the Bureau of Justics Statistics (from the U.S. Dept of Justice), in a
Special Report entitled, "Violent State Prisoners and their Victims".  State
statistics are usually used in violent crime statistics because violent crimes
are very rarely prosecuted on the federal level.  These statistics are obtained
from 1986 survey of state prisons and published in July of 1990 (see Mr.
Franklin, this is called documenting what you bring up).
  First of all, something interesting was that 89% of white violent offenders
victimized other whites, while 49% of Black violent offenders victimized other
Blacks.  I was a bit surprised by that.  But Mr. Franklin asserts that 69% of
violent criminals are Black.  Well according to the U.S. Justice department
50.7% of violent offenders are Black, 45.5% are white, and 3.8% are other.
Quite a big difference than the 69% that Mr. Franklin asserts.  Yes, Blacks
commit violent crimes in a greater proportion than our population says we
should, but Blacks are also greatly overrepresented in the lower levels of the
economic strata, and statistics show that there is a greater economic effect
on crime than there is a race effect.  Well, that is the  end of my tirade.
I have shown by facts that Mr. Franklin is full of shit.  Unless of course
in the last 6 years there has been a  19% increase in Black violent criminals,
or a 19% decrease in white criminal offenders.  I think not.  Unless Mr.
franklin can document his assertions, he should get off the network!!!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: edsum02@venus.lerc.nasa.gov (Cassondra Pope)
Subject: Re: Anti-Gang Ad Controversy #2: Letter to the Editor
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
Date: 19 Aug 1992 15:03 EDT  

> 
>I'm not sure what an "equal connection" is, but I don't see any reason
>to make a big distinction between the two groups.  Both groups consist
>of essentially disempowered marginalized people who respond to their
>global disempowerment by making themselves locally powerful.  The
>modern Klan consists of "poor white trash" types who are generally
                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  
I agree with everthing you said expect this.  The modern Klan is a well
oiled machine that functions like a corporate entity.  Although there are
PWTs in the Klan, the skinheads are moreso the PWT.  Skinheads are
openly violent but the Kaln kill in silence.


>poorly educated and essentially irrelevant to the national economy.
>They respond to their disempowerment by affirming their position in
>the American caste system by making sure that blacks "stay in place."
>	Similarly, youth gangs consist primarily of adolescent youths
>who are essentially irrelevant to the national economy.  They respond
>to their disempowerment by affirming that they "rule" some small
>"turf."  These thugs use the same methods, murder and terror, as do
>the thugs in the Klan.  Their goal, to make themselves powerful by
>dominating others, is similar.  They just manifest their desire as
>patriarchal violence, rather than racist violence.
>
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 12:54:17 EDT
From: <KRB104@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Clinton's Disrespect For Jessee Jackson
Distribution: usa
 <1992Aug13.161956.27833@seq.uncwil.edu>

In article <1992Aug13.161956.27833@seq.uncwil.edu>, frankli@seq.uncwil.edu
(william carter franklin) says:
>
>HF.GTD@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gay Belle Daniels) writes:
>
>
>
>>Do you know that most people on welfare are not African-American,
>>but white and female with 2-3 kids?  And whites are on Social
>>Security as well.  Older...white...people. Underage children
>>whose parents have died and are under the care of a guardian.
>>.
>
>Blah Blah Blah, I checked and found out the answer to all of this
>BULLSHIT about welfare being mostly white; and IRONICALLY fifty
>percent of welfare claims are Black people. And one third of the total
>aid (Social Security, welfare, and WICS combined) go to black people.
>Black people make up almost 12 PERCENT of the total U.S. population.
>
>
>
>>Black people are 10% of the population.  Just that and no more.  Why
>>we are blamed for having all the money in Amerikkka (with
>>emphasis on the KKK) is continually beyond my comprehension.
>>.
>>This man--really this THING--is not informed.
>
>
>Looks like I just informed you. You need a freshmen level stats course.


   Where the hell did you get these statistics?  I want citations on where you
get the statistics that Blacks get 50% of the welfare!!!!!  Of course, you
made them up, as usual.  The only statistic that you have right is that
Blacks make up 12% of the total U.S. population.  You are so full of shit.
Again, please give citations for these bogus statistics!!!!  We are still
waiting for citations for your assertion that Blacks commit 69-75% of the
violent crimes in this nation!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: frankli@seq.uncwil.edu (william carter franklin)
Subject: Re: Violent crime stats from a reliable source
Organization: Univ. of North Carolina @ Wilmington
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 16:02:56 GMT

dem@engin.umich.edu (Darryle E Merlette) writes:


>Black neighborhoods are "occupied" by police while white neighborhoods
>are patrolled. There's a big difference, and it is in part responsible
>for the skewed crime stats when race is taken into account.

Oh, I see, so the fact that the crimes occur has nothing to do with
the stats? You seem like you have already made up your mind that all
whites oppress all blacks, and that the 80 percent of the murders in
my city committed by Blacks last year were just because that our police
had "occupied" their neighborhoods. Bull.



>Maybe that's true in your limited corner of the world but I can
>assure you that it's not true in the rest of America. How many
>white Yusef Hawkins' have there been? Reginald Denny doesn't count --
>for one, he's still alive, and for two, there's some evidence that
>his attack wasn't entirely unprovoked (he was "selling wolf tickets"
>from what he thought was the safety of his truck according to some
>accounts).


LIMITED CORNER? Wilmington North Carolina? Your education seems limited.
(At least on this subject)

Yea, they didn't get to finish Reginald off, right? Those accounts are
bull.


>The following is an excerpt from Manning Marable's _How Capitalism
>Underdeveloped America_:

(The following is bullshit)

>"The US Right was able to manipulate the public's anxiety by 
>propagandizing crime statistics...Crime statistics can always
>be interpreted in different ways, depending obviously upon one's
>political perspective...Several observations along the color line
>must be made. First and foremost is the fact that the percentage
>of Black and Hispanic victims of violent crimes has *always* been
>higher than for whites...The irony of the newest "war against crime"
>is that white police, politicians, and law enforcement officers have
>been nonchalant, at best, in aiding and defending Blacks' lives and
>personal property. The foundations of the modern US police state are
>designed specifically to ensure that the killings, rapes, and property
>thefts of Blacks continue unabated -- so long as whites (especially in
>the upper classes) remain protected." pp124-126.



Wilmington has many programs that revitalize black neighborhoods with
thousands of hours of volunteer efforts.
Also, this year, the city passed a multi_million dollar plan to 
revitalize ONE of our black neighborhoods. 
So it seems like your source has it COMPLETELY backwards.

And the police go where the crime is.
What is so prejudiced about that?
From: fano@zoo1.ils.nwu.edu (Andy Fano)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: This FRANKLIN person
Date: 12 Aug 92 14:58:37 GMT
Reply-To: fano@zoo1.ils.nwu.edu (Andy Fano)
Organization: The Institute for the Learning Sciences


William Franklin has shown himself to be a bigot and provacateur.  He
continues to repost the same pointless slogans, now more often in
capital letters.  (Capital letters being their only source of
weightiness).

Following is a typical pearl of his:

William Carter Franklin writes:
> 
> My point, too, which you so nicely have outlined, is still valid...
> even if D.C has a higher crime rate and more black people, the point is
> that AMERICA is THE BEST PLACE FOR BLACK PEOPLE TO LIVE. Post the 
> nationwide violent crime stats for 1990 and notice the distribution
> among the cities and, then, the longitudonal racial boundaries.
> America is very kind and tolerant to her black people. My point is
> still undisputedly correct!

This kind of argument is insidious for (at least) three
reasons:

1. Let's pretend, for the sake of argument, that America is the best
place for Black people to live.  So what?  That doesn't change the
fact that they are mistreated relative to the white majority.  What is
the point of this claim?  That Blacks should sit down and shut up and
thank their generous white hosts for not mistreating them more?  This
leads to the following point.

2.  Note how Franklin says that America is "tolerant to her black
people".  Blacks are not guests and Whites are not hosts.  But if you
insist on looking at this in terms of toleration, I'd say that all
things considered, America's Blacks have tolerated Whites far better!
The point, of course, is that no ethnic group is "tolerated".  That
implies a somehow more deserving "tolerator" ethnic group that has the
as yet unexercised right to stop tolerating.

3.  Why the crime statistics?  In the context of his posting to me
they say: "America is better to her blacks than the rest, and the
mistreatment they suffer is justified because they're a bunch of
criminals anyway".  The crimes of individuals who speak for no one
cannot be used to discredit the group as a whole.


Franklin seems to have hijacked the newsgroup.  I encourage people
to just ignore him.

-andrew fano
From: mcbean@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: This FRANKLIN person
Date: 13 Aug 92 01:03:41 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620

In article <1992Aug12.033930.6310@news2.cis.umn.edu>, mmoore@epx.cis.umn.edu ("None of ya Bizness") writes:
> In article <92224.073027KRB104@psuvm.psu.edu> <KRB104@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
> $  There has been this William Carter Franklin person postin here for a while
> $on the subject of what country is best for Blacks to live in.  I just want
> $to warn, and ask everyone who is responding to him to please question his
> $dubious statistics.  For instance he stated that 75% of the violent crimes
> $comitted in this nation are committed by Blacks.  Well, when I asked for a
> $citation on this, he informed me that this was for the DC area, an area which
> $is predominately Black to begin with.  He said he got his statistics from the
> $Associated Press, what article, what paper, where they got their statistics is
> $still a mystery.  Please question his statistics and ask for exact citations.
> 
> Well I asked him what statistics he had to back up his claims that 75% of
> violent crimes were committed by blacks, etc., etc. but he ignored me.
> But then either I'm one of those "black bigots" or his ass is still stingin
> from the written whippin I gave him in that "Good Quote" thread...

I think the PC term for "Franklin the Flippant Fool" is that he is
intellectually challenged.

> 
> -- 
> Malcolm Diallo Moore, Honeywell/CIS-Univ. of Minn.     mmoore@epx.cis.umn.edu
> 				            Moore_Malcolm+@ssdc.honeywell.com	
> "Jeeeeah this is the rap about the bat batman he is the one in black like a bat
> out of hell he will reveal SCREAMIN DOWN THE ROAD IN A BATMOBILE!!!!!!!"

McBean
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: frankli@seq.uncwil.edu (william carter franklin)
Subject: Re: [William H. Magill: Some Welfare Notes]
Organization: Univ. of North Carolina @ Wilmington
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 16:53:25 GMT


The only truth I could glean from this article is that the economy is 
bad (and that Bush couldn't care less).
From: djohns@elm.circa.ufl.edu (David A. Johns)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Clinton's Disrespect For Jesse Jackson
Date: 16 Aug 92 17:33:59 GMT
Organization: University of Florida, Gainesville

In article <1992Aug6.161000.16141@seq.uncwil.edu> frankli@seq.uncwil.edu (william carter franklin) writes:

# wayne@tse.uucp (Wayne Hines) writes:
#
# >Okay so tell me, What makes America, a better place for blacks to
# >live than my country - CANADA.
#
# Wait a minute, it's up to YOU to prove that Canada is a better
# place to live than America. I have supported my claims on this
# group that America is the best place in the world for black people
# to live. You disagree and claim that Canada is better.

Hmmmm, I must have missed a critical message or two.  I don't remember
your

        1. establishing a reasonably non-controversial definition for
        "best";

        2. showing that the U.S. is not only better than *some*
        countries according to that definition, but better than *all*
        countries.

Would you mind summarizing your answers to these points for those of
us who missed them the first time around?

And by the way, as long as we're being scientific about this, Wayne
doesn't have to prove that Canada is better to invalidate your
claim that the U.S. is better. The null hypothesis would be that
both countries are the same, and you would have to specifically
justify your claim about *all* countries with specific reference to
Canada.

David

Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
Subject: Re: The Republican convention [and Buchanan]
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 03:39:44 GMT

stovall@ficus.cs.ucla.edu (Steven Stovall) writes: [About Patrick Buchanan]
#
#The most overtly racist remark I have heard of was the "Zulus" and "Englishmen"
#comment where he stated that a large number of Englishmen could be assimilated
#into the state of Virginia much more easily than a large number of Zulus.

I picked this up on usenet some time ago:

-------------------------------------------------------------------
"Why are we more shocked when a dozen people are killed in Vilnius than 
[by] a massacre in Burundi? Because they are white people.  That's who 
we are.  That's where America comes from."

-- Pat Buchanan, interview with London Sunday Telegraph, quoted in
   Newsweek, 1/27/1992.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

#He also has been known to engage in holocaust
#revisionism, which is a coded form of anti-semitism.
                         ^^^^^
Coded? Boy, I don't want to see the explicit!

-Danny Keren.