HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad,sci.environment,alt.activism
Subject: Re: _Scientific American_ profiles Maglev Trains
Date: 31 Jul 92 04:58:57 GMT
Organization: LLNL

In article <JMC.92Jul30204522@SAIL.Stanford.EDU> jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU writes:
:It worries me that the artists' conceptions I have seen of maglev
:show a single car that could hold about 30 people.  If that's the
:model it will require a truly enormous subsidy.

	Since when were artists' conceptions == final designs?

	Why not look at some of the prototypes currently being tested?

	Like the German Transrapid?

:I'll speculate that the pro-maglev sentiment starts from the idea
:that airplane travel is less energy efficient than train travel,
:and in response to the argument that trains are too slow, counters
:with maglev and other exotic schemes - ignoring cost.

	What makes you SO sure that maglevs will be MUCH more
expensive than aviation? Commercial aviation receives a heck of a lot
of subsidies, a lot of them rather indirect, such as military pilot
training, and construction of airports and air traffic control paid
for out of the public pocket. But I don't expect this to make much of
an impression on someone who is not willing to accept the existence of
highway subsidies, that is, any highway costs not paid for out of
tolls, license fees, fuel taxes, and other user fees. Joseph Vranich
in _Supertrains_ documents highway and aviation subsidies in gory
detail.

:Airplanes are an extremely flexible means of long distance travel,
:and I don't believe they will be displaced for any significant
:amount of their prsent applications.  A Japanese told me that he
:went from Osaka to Tokyo by airplane rather than by the bullet
:train.

	For what reason?

	Not to be like everyone else?

	And how are airplanes supposed to be so flexible if they need
airports to travel to and from? And BIG ones for the typical run of
commercial airliners. I concede that they do have a plus: they do not
need any surface path in between their take-off and landing points.
From: SDupa@xview.csuohio.edu (Scott Hewis)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: N&W 611 Where Abouts JULY/AUG.
Date: 21 Jul 92 21:25:33 GMT
Organization: Cleveland State University - Telecomm

N&W 4-8-4 #611 will be laying over at Conneaut, Oh. yard for the rest of this
week (7-21 thru 7-24-92) with the engine at the east end of the yard.
On Sat. 7-25-92 a trip will be run from Conneaut to Rocky River, Oh. and 
back, though the return trip to Conneaut will be pulled by diesels as there
are no turning facilities at Rocky River.  The 611 will then go to Bellvue,
Oh. and lay over there until 8-8-92 when it will pull a fan trip from Rocky
River to Columbus, Oh. for the State Fair.  On the return from Columbus 611
will probably come off the train at Bellvue and diesels will continue the
rest of the trip back to Rocky River.

Scott
--------------------------------------
* Scott Hewis; Telecom Specialist    *
* Cleveland State University         *
* email c/o scott@asgard.csuohio.edu *
--------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: cal@ee.ryerson.ca (Calvin Henry-Cotnam)
Subject: Re: Railway police in Canada (was Re: NYC's Transit Police)
Organization: Ryerson Polytechnical Institute, Toronto
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 03:18:50 GMT

In article <13643@mindlink.bc.ca> Steve_Hooper@mindlink.bc.ca (Steve Hooper) writes:
>> Nigel Allen writes:
>The difference is, an RCMP constable has his set
>jurisdiction, a city, town or otherwise.  Railway cops have "Canada" as their
>jurisdiction on their ID cards.

I don't wish to get of the railway aspect of this, but:

Even though other police have a set jurisdiction, according to an officer
on the Metro Toronto Police force (I cannot name him, but he was conducting
a tour that I was on way back in grade school), when it comes to investigating
a crime (and I suspect he meant something under the Criminal Code, ie:
murder), their jurisdiction also covers all of Canada, and if they needed
to travel to the west coast to make the arrest, they could.  This of
course differs greatly from the States where it is often necessary to
extradite someone from one state to the next.

Calvin Henry-Cotnam, CATE            |    MY CANADA INCLUDES CANADIANS!
Ryerson Polytechnical Institute      | I would really like this to include
Toronto, Ontario, Canada             | Quebec - but I won't hold my breath.
Organization: Drama, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 23:39:32 -0400 
From: Denise Pullen <dp2r+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Train .GIF uploads to wuarchive.wustl.edu

I have uploaded the following files to graphics/trains/subway on
wuarchive.wustl.edu

metro132.jpg
metro151.jpg
metro156.jpg
metro170.jpg
metro197.jpg
metro752.jpg
metro933.jpg

All scans are in grey-scale (640x480x256). The are taken from my
personal Paris Metro archives and depict a variety of types including
regional rail lines.
From: steven@luna.rivm.nl (Steven van Uitert)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Push-Pull Service: Which Way do the Locomotives Point?
Date: 21 Jul 92 06:59:54 GMT
Organization: Rijksinstituut voor Volksgezondheid en Milieuhygiene,Bilthoven,NL

In article <6729@charon.cwi.nl> dik@cwi.nl (Dik T. Winter) writes:
>In article <1992Jul20.174202.21561@ntmtv> adrian@ntmtv.UUCP (Adrian Brandt) writes:
>This year a series of new sets will be introduced, each consisting of a
>semi-permanently coupled locomotive, a number of cars and a car with control
>cabin.  The interesting part brings us back to the subject.  When traffic
>requires larger trains, two such sets will be coupled on the locomotive end.
>We will then see a train with a control cabin on both ends and two
>locomotives in the middle, one pushing and one pulling.

The sets consists of a locomotive 1700, 2 or 3 cars and a car with control
cabin. Any combination of two sets is allowed:

1700-c-c-cc+cc-c-c-1700
cc-c-c-1700+1700-c-c-cc
1700-c-c-cc+1700-c-c-cc
cc-c-c-1700+cc-c-c-1700

The third is, dependent of the driving direction, equal to the fourth 
combination.

Steven van Uitert
From: 31ochs@gw.wmich.edu
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Semaphore Signals
Date: 29 Jul 92 02:40:15 EST
Distribution: world
Organization: Western Michigan University

In article <l7bqk4INNj7@appserv.Eng.Sun.COM>, blw@majipoor.Corp.Sun.COM (Brian Wong - SMCC Technical Product Marketing) writes:
> I just got back from a drive between San Francisco and Portland (Oregon).  I
> noticed along the way that SP still uses lower-quadrant semaphores in Oregon.
> I drove I-5, which parallels SP for many miles and I saw quite a number of
> them still working.  I didn't know ANYONE used semaphores anymore (except in
> computers, of course ;-)
> 
> Who else uses semaphores?  Are the ones on SP an endangered species?  Should I
> go measure them when I'm driving by the next time (this fall) in order to avoid
> disappointment later?

YES!!! by all means get photo's/drawings/measurements of them.
I'm sure I read somewhere that SP was replacing them.
CSX still has some semaphores around. I seen one up in Manistee on the ex C&O
yard up in Michigan. There is also one at Porter Indiana, on the CSX
interchange to Conrail. I believe this is Conrails signal. 

Fred Ochs

31OCHS@gw.wmich.edu   (VAX)
ochs@sol.cs.wmich.edu (UNIX)

_________________________________________________________________________
        _______________
       /_______________\__+--+_---_+--+__
    ___|[  ]| ###|  ###   ######|###### |
  | | ______|    |                      | |
  |_|/|_|___|____|______________________|_|
   H   \--/  \ \o/  o          /  \--/   H
___"__O----O__`---------------'__O----O__"_____

A GP30 with some imagination ;^)

Newsgroups: rec.railroad,rec.models.railroad
From: SDupa@xview.csuohio.edu (Scott Hewis)
Subject: Re: 0-8-0 Indiana Harbor Belt historical/technical information
Keywords: 0-8-0 
Organization: Cleveland State University - Telecomm 
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 13:43:46 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.171511.23114@schbbs.mot.com> yves@speedy.dev.cdx.mot.com (Yves Vidal) writes:
>From: yves@speedy.dev.cdx.mot.com (Yves Vidal)
>Subject: 0-8-0 Indiana Harbor Belt historical/technical information
>Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 17:15:11 GMT
>Keywords: 0-8-0 


>I would appreciate getting some information on one rare steam 
>engines, namely the 0-8-0 Switcher made by ALCO for Indiana Harbor
>Belt (NYC). 

>There was only 3 engines of this type (#100-102) which included some
>unusual features : 3 cylinders on the main driver + a booster on 
>the first tender truck. 

>I am building an O-scale model of it from an old Rivarossi kit, and 
>would appreciate obtaining more information to detail it. Any book 
>references or articles or opinions are welcome.

>Thanks for your help.

>Yves



Yves,

You might want to try and find a copy of Al Stauffer's book NEW YORK CENTRAL
POWER (vol. 2 I think).  It has all of the IHB steam locos in it.
I'm not sure if the book is still in print, but I have seen it in libraries
and for sale at RR fleamarkets.
Hope it's some help.

Scott
--------------------------------------
* Scott Hewis; Telecom Specialist    *
* Cleveland State University         *
* email c/o scott@asgard.csuohio.edu *
--------------------------------------
From: R.Todd.Minsk@dartmouth.edu (R. Todd Minsk)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: BOOK on NYCTA
Date: 25 Jul 92 00:05:40 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

Here is the info from the online catalogue of Dartmouth College Library
(my employer, as the book repair technician):

 Search S1: F CALL F-12855-D88-1991
 Result S1: 1 items in the CATALOG file.

                                  -1-
   Author: Dwyer, Jim, 1957-
    Title: Subway lives : 24 hours in the life of the New York City
subway
            / Jim Dwyer. 1st ed.
Collation: viii, 312 p. : ill. ; 24 cm.
  Imprint: New York : Crown, c1991.
    Notes: Includes bibliographical references (p. 293-305) and index.
     Type: Book
 Language: eng
 Subjects: Subways -- New York (N.Y.)
           New York (N.Y.) -- Social life and customs.
     LCCN: 91-3097
     ISBN: 051758445X :
 Location: Baker Stacks F/128.55/D88/1991

Todd Minsk, ferro-bibliographer
From: BRANDT_JOBST/HP1900_01@HPLOMG.HPL.HP.COM
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Trip report on the C&TS
Date: 23 Jul 92 07:32:43 GMT

Jim Stover writes:

> Just outside of the station, the front engine went ahead over a trestle that
> is too weak for two engines. We rejoined on the other side and started up a
> 4% grade. The view is beautiful as we climbed through aspens. The best view
> is from between cars or the open car. There are a number of switch backs
> where you can see the whole train.

I think you mean S-bends.  I don't recall any switchbacks on this route.  A
switchback consists of pair of switches at the ends of a piece of track on
which the train backs up and then reverses again to continue when climbing
steep terrain where there is no room for sweeping turns.

I think it is worth mentioning that the train climbs along the rim of Toltec
Gorge where it goes through a short tunnel before going on to Cumbres Pass
where there is an old station and wye for turning helpers and snow plows.
The gorge is apparently bottomless because, although one can see far down,
the bottom is not visible from the train.  I am glad to hear that the rail
equipment has found its way to Chama.  When I last saw it, this stuff was lying
around Alamosa and much of it (heaps of axles and trucks) went to the scrap
yard by the pound.

jobst_brandt@hplabs.hp.com
From: clive@x.co.uk (Clive Feather)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Push-Pull Service: Which Way do the Locomotives Point?
Date: 29 Jul 92 07:03:25 GMT
Organization: IXI Limited, Cambridge, UK

In article <1992Jul22.135636.29866@bony1.bony.com> billg@bony1.bony.com (Bill Gripp) writes:
>In article <1992Jul21.110647.6495@s1.gov> lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich) writes:
>>	Here's another interesting configuration: that of the French
>> TGV. It has an electric locomotive on each end of the train, making it
>> symmetric, and presumably able to move in both directions.  
>> A locomotive may be necessary at each end to guarantee that the forward
>> end is always streamlined (probably critical for 200 mph speeds), in
>> whichever direction the train is moving. That is not always possible
>> with the typical passenger car.
> But cab cars used in push pull service are not "typical" since they have
> an engineer's control stand, cab window, etc.  There is no reason that
> the engineer's end of the cab car could not be "streamlined" with a
> wedge nose, etc.  Don't some of the "Amfleet" cab cars have a Metroliner
> style point?

On British Rail, the East Coast Main Line is operated with push-pull
trains. At the north end of the train is a streamlined class 91 electric
locomotive. At the south end is a streamlined driving luggage van.

The class 91s are extremely unsymmetrical, with the north end highly
streamlined and the south end vertical, so as to fit snugly against the
first coach, but both ends containing a driving cab. I have once seen
one pulling a train from the south end - it looks *odd*.

The APT of sad memory had streamlined driving trailers at each end, and
one or two locomotives, with no driving cabs, in the middle.

[Discussion on articulation]

Articulation was one of the problems that led to the APT being abandoned.

-- 
Clive D.W. Feather     | IXI Limited         | If you lie to the compiler,
clive@x.co.uk          | 62-74 Burleigh St.  | it will get its revenge.
Phone: +44 223 462 131 | Cambridge   CB1 1OJ |   - Henry Spencer
Fax:   +44 223 462 132 | United Kingdom      |
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: mboucher@cortex.prospect.com (Mike Boucher)
Subject: RE: Live Steam in New England
Organization: Cortex Corporation, Waltham, MA, USA
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 13:44:05 GMT
X-Posted-From: cortex.prospect.com
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

Hey there,

in post: <1992Ju23.12543.22402@ryn.mro4.dec.com           
Dave Pierson writes:

>    There is a "smaller" oval of dual gauge track, same gauge as Waushakum,
>    this loop approx 75% the size of Waushakum.  There is a larger loop
>    of 8" (?) gauge track, with reversing loop,completely enclosing the
>    smaller loop.  A brick roundhouse, with triple gauge turntable, a couple
>    of pneumatic lifts.  I should guess the outer oval is a half mile or
>    so.

FYI: the guages in question are
3/4" scale  = 3 1/2" guage
1" scale    = 4 3/4" guage
1 1/2 scale = 7 1/4" guage

The third is important.  In the northeast and England, it is 7 1/4.  Elsewhere
it is 7 1/2.  There are precious few tracks that can handle both!  Some people
in the 7 1/2 camp scale their engines to 1.6" scale, so the guage is closer to
scale, but this is another discussion/flamewar.

If you don't know about Waushakum, we've got 1000' of mainline, with plenty of
siding.  I believe Pioneer Valley has 600' or so on the highline, and 1500' -
2000' on the ground.  The two smaller guages are on elevated track, about 30"
off the ground, and you ride side-saddle on a flatcar.  The larger guage is on
the ground.

BTW: Waushakum Live Steamers annual meet is August 28-30th this year.  Contact
me for more information, as I am the secretary.
-- 
Mike Boucher			mboucher@cortex.prospect.com
Cortex Corp			"Don't take life too seriously, you'll never
Waltham, MA, USA		 get out of it alive!"
From: das@castle.ed.ac.uk (D Stewart)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Push-Pull Service: Which Way do the Locomotives Point?
Date: 21 Jul 92 08:15:11 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

In article <6729@charon.cwi.nl> dik@cwi.nl (Dik T. Winter) writes:
>In article <1992Jul20.174202.21561@ntmtv> adrian@ntmtv.UUCP (Adrian Brandt) writes:
> > Push-pull is not uncommon in Europe (and on other US commuter rail).

BR has had push-pull trains for a long time, though not as many as other
European countries.

In Scotland we have had some interesting push-pull trains. The 
Edinburgh/Glasgow line has supported a half-hourly service on tight 
turn rounds (distnace 47 miles, time approx 50 minutes). In the early
sixties these were operated by multiple unit trains then they went over
to an engine at either end with 5 or 6 coaches in between (two engines
class 27's were connected by a large multicore cable running through
the coaches). After having run these trains into the ground they were
replaced by class 47's, 5 coaches and a special coach called a DBSO
(Driving Brake Second Open). The class 47 was normally at the Edinburgh end
of the train. It was one of these trains that was involved in the Polmont 
collision in 1986 (DBSO hit cow at approx 100mph). Now these trains have
been replaced by the class 158 multiple units trains (now that is another
story).

The InterCity trains operating out of Euston and Kings Cross are mainly 
push pull trains (engine usually at Scottish end on the East Coast). 
Incidentally in the UK passengers are not allowed in the leading coach of a 
push/pull train (when in push mode) if it is to run above 100mph.


- David "ScotRail" Stewart -
EE Dept
Edinburgh University
From: wes@uf.msc.edu (Wes Barris)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Civil War Era Steam Locomotive Data Needed
Keywords: Steam, Locomotive, General
Date: 31 Jul 92 14:23:23 GMT
Reply-To: wes@msc.edu
Organization: AHPCRC, Minnesota Supercomputer Center

In article <30JUL199210390556@tm0006.lerc.nasa.gov>, pep7513@tm0006.lerc.nasa.gov (Phillip E. Paulsen) writes:
|> I am a mechanical engineer in need of technical data and drawings for the
|> "General".  This civil war vintage steam locomotive engine was used as a
|> part of the North's military railway system.  Are there any reference books
|> available?  Operations data?  Decent pictures or drawings?  Museums or groups
|> that could point me in the right direction? 
|> 

If you don't find any information on this engine, you may wish to contact
the museum which displays this engine.  It is the "Big Shanty Museum" in
Kennesaw, GA.

-- 
                                       o O O O O o o o o o o o o . . . . . . .
 __________    ___           ___      __                _
/_______|--`--|_ _|--=-==---|_ _|--,_|__|_             |-+-------`____________,
| ||_| /        -  |        / - \  |      || ________  |                      |
|_|___/------------|----__---------|------|||__|__|__| |Southern Pacific Lines|
|_|____________/-------{__}---------------{__}_______|=|_________     ________|
/_(o)=(o) ( )( )( )( ) [__]  ( )( )( )( ) [__]--(o)     (o)(o)(o)-----(o)(o)(o)
===============================================================================
Wes Barris                                                   PH: (612) 626-8090
Minnesota Supercomputer Center                               Email: wes@msc.edu
Organization: Drama, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 02:36:27 -0400 
From: Denise Pullen <dp2r+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Train .GIF uploads to wuarchive.wustl.edu

I have uploaded the following files for anonymous ftp in
/graphics/trains on wuarchive.wustl.edu:

EP2-E2
F3-8834
F40-280
F7-5681
GG1-4811
GG1-4935
GG1-908
GP9-6137
GT-26
KM-4003
MET-809
PA-51
TGV

All files have a .jpg extension and are compressed using the "JPEG" .gif
compression program.

Please address all comments, questions and suggestions to me at the
above address. Thanks.
From: Steve_Hooper@mindlink.bc.ca (Steve Hooper)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: CP Rail multimark orientation
Date: 23 Jul 92 07:18:56 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

> 31ochs@gw.wmich.edu writes:
> 
> Does anybody have any idea what is the difference? Is it certain number
> series,
> or different batches that were built all have the same way?
> 


I don't know...but I can tell you that originally the multi-mark was to signify
the DIRECTION of movement.  Now, obviously, on a box car, it makes no
difference.  But on units, well, they mean something (although all units I know
have run with the short hood forward).  I seem to recall seeing pictures of a
couple of high-nose geeps (probably Geep-9's) that were experimented with
running long hood forward, and the multimark showed this.

As for cabooses, the multi-mark was ALWAYS supposed to point in the direction
of travel.  It is on the kitchen end of the cab.  For the most part, cab's ran
in either direction, but on unit trains (trains that would go around loops such
as the coal trains), it was mandatory by local union rules to run the kitchen
end trailing so the conductor could look out to the rear while doing paperwork.
For those that dont know, the interior of a cab looks like this:


------------------------------------------
    Table                    Closets
                 Cupola
 Sink and stove            Double Bunks
------------------------------------------
MULTIMARK pointing -------->

(This is, of course, a modern, wide-vision cab)



--

 steve_hooper@mindlink.bc.ca   []  Conductor on the High Iron of
 OR      a777@mindlink.bc.ca   []     CP Rail - Cascade Sub
 The Great White North in      []
 Vancouver, BC CANADA          []   Opinions are mine, NOT CP's
From: "nigel allen" <nigel.allen@canrem.com>
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: hi-speed trains/senat
Date: 30 Jul 92 21:57:33 EST
Reply-To: "nigel allen" <nigel.allen@canrem.com>
Distribution: rec
Organization: Canada Remote Systems

Press release from Joseph Vranich

 High Speed Trains Win in Senate
 To: National Desk, Transportation Writer
 Contact: Joseph Vranich, 703-941-8927

   WASHINGTON, July 29 /U.S. Newswire/ -- The High Speed Rail/Maglev
Association hailed today's Senate action that would put tax-exempt
bonds for high-speed train systems under the same rules as airport
bonds, allowing planners to use private capital in construction.
   The effort, led by Sens. Steve Symms (R-Idaho) and Bob Graham
(D-Fla.), was an amendment to the Energy Bill.
   The president of the association, Robert J. Casey, released this
statement:

   "This is the first time the Senate has considered putting
high-speed train systems on a truly equal footing with other modes of
transportation, and the sense of fair play prevailed.
   "I wholeheartedly agree with Sen. Symms' closing statement that
the high-speed rail provision is good energy policy, good
environmental policy, good transportation policy and good tax policy.
   "It's clear from the vote that broad-based support exists from
senators of both parties and from every region of the country,
showing that high-speed trains have become a national issue.
   "It was appropriate that the effort was made in conjunction with
the energy bill.  After all, electrically powered high-speed trains
are the most efficient form of intercity transport ever designed.  If
we're serious about reducing oil imports, we must build high-speed
train systems.
   "We will work to ensure that the measure is enacted into law as it
moves into the conference committee and is considered by the White
House.
   "Specifically, the provision would remove the requirement that an
allocation under state volume caps must be obtained for 25 percent of
bonds issued for high-speed rail systems.
   "Congress has already recognized the importance of tax-exempt
bonding authority for the development of airports, seaports and
high-speed train systems.  However, the restriction applies only to
high-speed train systems.  Since many states are already operating
near their volume caps, the 25 percent allocation requirement has
served as a barrier to the use of tax-exempt bonds to build such
systems."
 -30-
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario/Detroit, MI
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: rec.railroad,soc.culture.canada,can.general