HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kannan@ardor.enet.dec.com (Nari Kannan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian.american
Subject: Re: are there still prejudices?
Date: 16 Apr 92 18:14:53 GMT
Reply-To: kannan@ardor.enet.dec.com (Nari Kannan)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation

in article <1992Apr15.174715.29166@menudo.uh.edu>
 murthy@tree.egr.uh.edu (purna) writes:


>are INDIANS (asian), raised in the US, still  
>prejudiced against OTHER indians (also, asian)?
>now, before people start blasting away, let me finish.  i have noticed (though,
>this may just be my perception) that many indians (mainly the "older"  
>generation; like my parents) form "sub-cultures".  

Good topic.  Provides much needed respite from
the SCIA  tripe about CFD, CFV, Straw Poll, Name Calling,  etc...
from pretty much the same set of people.

It's interesting how certain things don't appear 
prejudicial while things like what Purna mentions do, especially to
the unusually self-critical Indian mind.  
Almost all major cities in the world have their own 
"national watering holes".  There are bars for
British expatriates in Sydney, American gathering places
in most major cities in Europe., etc.. While we don't
give a second thought to these,  Indian subcultures
gathering to share common thoughts, food and experiences
suddenly seem prejudicial.  

In my opinion, India is nothing more than a whole bunch of
subcultures thrown together by forces in History.  While
there may be very thinning strands of a national feeling
holding all these different peoples together,  almost
everything about them is different - Demeanor,  food,
language, attitudes towards various things..etc..  While
the modern thought of only people interested in the same things
interacting with each other seems logical, I don't see how
this is anything but logical.  I

Nari
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian.american
From: naik@nynexst.com (Jay Naik)
Subject: Re: Let'em speak, but in what language?
Organization: Nynex Science and Technology
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 92 18:22:17 GMT



In Message-ID: <1992Apr5.003315.563@mercury.unt.edu> (Ganesh Gopalakrishan) : 

>>Could not agree more. We started speaking to our child in English
>>after his teachers expressed concerns about "communication problems",

	Did this eliminate his "communication problems" ? Their
concerns seem rather misplaced given the young age of your child. They
were looking for a quick diagnosis, I suppose. If anything the
communication skills are vastly helped by knowing more than one
language. 
----------------
 Jayant Naik
From: kumar@crhc.uiuc.edu (Kumar K. Goswami)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian.american
Subject: Re: A-B-C-D
Date: 8 Apr 92 21:11:16 GMT
Organization: Center for Reliable and High-Performance Computing, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
NNTP-Posting-Host: alaudin.crhc.uiuc.edu

khan@twg.com (Sharaaz K. Khan) writes:

>This group should have been named soc.culture.abcd:  WHY?

>   #            ######           #####          ######
>  # #           #     #         #     #         #     #
> #   #          #     #         #               #     #
>#     #  #####  ######   #####  #        #####  #     #
>#######         #     #         #               #     #
>#     #         #     #         #     #         #     #
>#     #         ######           #####          ######

>AMERICAN   -    BORN       -    CONFUSED   -    DESIS


>Sharaaz Khan :-)


This is getting very old ....
From: alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian.american
Subject: Re: PLEASE STOP IT
Date: 14 Apr 92 16:51:42 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: AT&T

In article <45357@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>, trinas@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (trina) writes:
> >Well, Pravin's post was a harassing one. By repeating it in your reply
> >while not opposing it, you emphasized his post and thus became an accomplice 
> >in the harassment.
> 
> 
> By this logic, all the newspapers in the world who wrote about 
> Mike Tyson's rape case and reprinted excerpts from testimonies
> about the actual rape 

Newspapers are in the business of reporting. There have been instances
in which newspapers and reporters have been sued for illicit reporting

> and the PEOPLE who retold their sides of
> the story are just as guilty. NOT!

Well they were ordered by the court.

> 
> One who repeats another's harassment only to acknowledge it and
> not to condone it is not considered an accomplice.
> 

However it was not an acknowledgement of harassment, rather it was
inadvertant remphasizing of it.

> Trina

I don't think I wish to discuss this further.

Alok
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian.american,news.groups
From: raghavan@wk21.nas.nasa.gov (Venkatraman Raghavan)
Subject: Thought for food
Keywords: vegetarianism, growing up in the US
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 92 20:16:16 GMT
Distribution: usa

Another question to people born and brought up in th US:

How was it to grow up in a family of vegetarians and face
the omnivorous world out there? Particularly if your parents
are not vegetarians by belief but because they grew up
that way.

I would like to know how you felt from a young age upto your 
college years. My apologies to meat-eaters if you feel left
out. But we might hear something from meat-eaters too.
From: fmbutt@mrbt.sw.stratus.com (Farooq Butt)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian.american
Subject: Re: Immigrants Getting Jobs
Date: 14 Apr 92 19:53:31 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Software Engineering

In article <1992Apr5.181806.24769@iWarp.intel.com> pandit@iwarp.intel.com (Milind Pandit) writes:
>
>A friend of mine is in medical school, and has what I think is a more
>valid complaint.  He points out that in America, MD's are given only
>after many years of rigorous and highly demanding education, whereas
>in India, an MD can be gotten with relative ease.  On the other hand,
>Indians with MDs from India can begin practicing in the US or continue
>their education here after taking a couple of aptitude tests.
                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^!!!!!



I doubt any foreign doctor would call the harrowing ordeal of the
ECFMG, FLEX plus an internship "a couple of aptitude tests."  This
idea that the USA's doors are open wide, welcoming all immigrants is
myopic, provincial and misses the mark.  Most immgrants that stay here
on job-sponsored green-cards (besides _illegal_ ones) have to prove,
beyond the shadow of a doubt that they contribute to the US economy
and US competitiveness in NO UNCERTAIN terms.  Family sponsored
immigrants do not have to pass such strict requirements but must also
prove that they will not become "wards of the state" once admitted.
For the most part, 3rd preference immigrants are well-educated and
create taxes and jobs.


fmb

-- 
Standard High-Tech Disclaimer: NOTHING  in the above article has the slightest 
relationship to reality. If any reality correspondences are found, please 
notify me IMMEDIATELY. Any threats, abuse or stupidity of any kind is purely 
UNintentional. These are MY Opinions NOT my employer's.
Organization: Senior, IM - MCS/CIT Track, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian.american,soc.culture.indian
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 00:30:14 -0400 
From: Pravin Devineni Ratnam <pr0i+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Madhuri/Sridevi

What does this message got to do with SCIA?
Organization: HAM - Hackers Against MUDs
X-Subliminal-Message: IBM/370 assembler is your friend.
Date: Friday, 10 Apr 1992 11:16:15 EDT
From: ARIJIT MAHALANABIS <AXM128@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian.american
Subject: Re: An Indian-American Legislator
Distribution: usa

It seems to me that the beauty of America (at least theoretically) is that
one can maintain his/her own cultural identity and yet be an American. This
is precisely the characteristic of America that has given it an infinite
ocean of cultural diversity.

However, this is the ideal situation. I would venture to say that anything
that is not of European origin cannot in reality become "American" under
current social definitions. Hence, Indian Americans appear to be on the
fringes of America's political structure. While other minorities have made
progress in defining themselves as American and yet remaining culturally
tied to their own roots, we Indian Americans are still a little confused
as to whether we should stick to our own roots or go wholesale 'American.'
The result is that those who stick to their roots do so vehemently and
refuse to acknowledge the benefits of this society and those who emulate
American pop culture completely ignore their roots. I think we will remain
under-represented politically in this country until we find a middle
ground that will allow us to be culturally aware of our roots and at the
same time allow us to be accepted into mainstream American society.

Arijit.
From: pr0i+@andrew.cmu.edu (Pravin Devineni Ratnam)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian.american
Subject: Re: PLEASE STOP IT (Re: accent? what accent?
Date: 10 Apr 92 20:23:23 GMT
	<1992Apr9.230744.23062@cbnewsi.cb.att.com>
Distribution: usa
Organization: Senior, IM - MCS/CIT Track, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Alok writes:
##########################
Pravin, Venu
 
PLEASE STOP THIS HARASSMENT OF TRINA.
 
The matter is between me and Trina. She called me gay and I told her that
I was not gay. That is all there is to it.
 
Any further posting on this subject will be considered harassment of
Trina as well as myself.
 
Alok
##################################

I wasn't harassing Tina, you moron. It was you who I was attacking. If
it was between you and Tina, maybe you should have considered
corresponding by email, in stead of the flame fest on this bboard. Once
you two started arguing on the bboard over personal issues, you waived
your right to privacy on this issue. Oh, I forgot, this is actaully the
netnews.alok bboard and not the SCIA bboard. In that case, I apologise
for amking a foll of myself on your personal bboard.

Also, you don't have to act like you are such an honorable person by
defending Trina. We settled this issue among ourselves.
From: trinas@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (trina)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian.american
Subject: Re: Why is SCIA needed ? ( Thanks to Ashok, Milind, Purna, Ravi, Sid..
Date: 16 Apr 92 15:25:44 GMT
Article-I.D.: mentor.45747
Distribution: usa
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center

Sridhar Venkataraman writes:

>One quick question: Can a non-US born person stand for Vice-President.

No. Must be an US born, US citizen.....

>Maybe we can have a straw poll for "Alok for Vice-President". Not the

Goodness forbid this should happen...:)  Dan Quayle would make a better
PRESIDENT.:)

Trina
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian.american,soc.culture.indian
From: alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia)
Subject: The Resurrection ...
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 17:37:12 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.indian.american

First let me wish you all a very happy Easter weekend.

Next, the question of the day, which is as follows:

How many believe SCIA can be resurrected, if she dies ...

Alok
From: trinas@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (trina)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian.american
Subject: Re: Help ..... save soc.culture.indian.american
Date: 6 Apr 92 17:45:01 GMT
Article-I.D.: mentor.44104
Distribution: na
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center

SHAILESH writes:
>With all due respect to freedom of speech etc. personal rivalries should be
>left out of this net. I'm getting sick of reading Trina and Alok flaming each
>other time and time again.


I agree, that this flaming is getting old.  I dont start (perhaps
I do encourage) these wars.  But I must say that if you want to
help scia so much, why even bother with these articles?  Why not
post your own articles relevant to the supposed needs of scia?

Why is it that everyone seems stunted by the flaming wars that
go on in this group?  If people seem so inclined to keep this
group, and so many support it, why are they not posting ideas,
thoughts, opinions on the board?  Perhaps it is a hint as to the
true feelings of those who want to keep this group.  It is easy
to vocally support a group, but if people are not going to use
it for the purpose it was intended for, then such flame wars
are going to continue to cloud the real issues (which incidentally
are often on sci already so people are probably just sick of
rediscussing them on this group).

Sorry so long....

Trina
From: AXM128@psuvm.psu.edu (ARIJIT MAHALANABIS)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian.american
Subject: Re: PLEASE STOP IT
Date: 14 Apr 92 14:10:13 GMT
 <1992Apr13.155932.1128@cirrus.com> <1992Apr14.132356.17440@cbnewsi.cb.att.com>
Distribution: usa
Organization: HAM - Hackers Against MUDs
X-Subliminal-Message: IBM/370 assembler is your friend.

In article <1992Apr14.132356.17440@cbnewsi.cb.att.com>, alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com
(alok.vijayvargia) says:

>In article <1992Apr13.155932.1128@cirrus.com>, venu@cirrus.com (Venu Nayar)
>writes:
>> In <1992Apr10.213811.20397@cbnewsi.cb.att.com> alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com
>> (alok.vijayvargia) writes:
>>
>> >It was not your one line statement about thought police that bothered me.
>> >It was your repeatition of Pravin's atrocious stuff in your reply.
>> >It was quite unnecessary. By repeating it, you recklessly or intentionally
>> >(I hope not) emphasized Pravin's atrocity.
>>
>> But how was it harassment of *you*, Alok?

>> Venu Nayar                    |               Internet: venu@cirrus.com

>Well, Pravin's post was a harassing one. By repeating it in your reply
>while not opposing it, you emphasized his post and thus became an accomplice
>in the harassment.

>Alok

I think you need to calm down a little bit, Alok. This is getting ridiculous.
So Pravin and Venu flamed you. So what? The best action you could have taken
is ignoring them. By bringing up ridiculous and uncalled for charges of
harassment, you are causing us all more pain. This is a free forum and I would
guess what Pravin and Venu posted was well within their rights as individuals
to voice their opinions. Part of the problem is that you are making your
flame war with Trina public. And as a result, by posting the flames, you
are inviting public criticism. So now that you have invited it, live with it.

Arijit.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian.american
From: monk@thelonious.bellcore.com (Sphere)
Subject: Inter-cultural marriages
Followup-To: soc.culture.indian.american
Reply-To: monk@thelonious.bellcore.com
Organization: Bellcore, NJ
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 92 15:17:18 GMT

I'm an US-born (northwest region) Caucasian female who is romantically
involved with an Indian-born man. We are thinking of marrying in the future
but have not yet met each others families. I'd like to make a good
impression on his family when I meet them so am looking for advice and/or
exeriences with this kind of situation from you all on this newsgroup. It
might help to know a bit about us so I'll provide some personal and family 
history for both of us. 

All of his family came from South India and most of them (aunts and uncles, 
with the exception of his parents) immigrated to the US 15-20 years ago. 
All of his immediate family are educated, professional people. Many of his 
aunts did not have arranged marriages but he will be the first in the family 
to marry a non-Indian.  His mother still lives in India (his father died 
over 10 years ago) but she visits the US often and will most likely immigrate 
sometime in the future. He is an only child. He is 30yrs old, has been in 
the states for about 8 yrs and considering our very divergent upbringing he 
and I have very similar values. 

I am 36 and come from a middle class family (father holds college degrees but 
mother stayed home with my brother and me). My parents are now retired and 
have been married for over 40 yrs. Both he and I have PhD's and are planning 
to continue with our individual carreers after we marry, but we would also 
like to have a child.

Suggestions/Advice on my meeting his family (my knowledge of Indian culture
is limited) or on any issue concerning such marriages would be appreciated.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian.american,news.groups,alt.fan.alok.vijayvargia
From: gchacko@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (George W Chacko)
Subject: Re: Repost- Straw Poll: SCIA Revote or Not ?
Organization: The Ohio State University
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 23:04:23 GMT

In article <1992Apr16.223031.25707@cbnewsi.cb.att.com> alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia) writes:

>This is a call for a straw poll to determine how many netusers want to have 
>a revote conducted for the group soc.culture.indian.american (SCIA).
>This is a group for discussing issues of interest to American Citizens and 
>Permanent Residents of Asian Indian origin residing in USA......

Quite frankly, any poll that you conduct is going to be viewed with 
considerable scepticism. I for one, will not participate in any poll
that you conduct. I don't think that the results from such a poll
should be taken seriously either.

George
From: venu@cirrus.com (Venu Nayar)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian.american
Subject: Re: accent? what accent?
Date: 9 Apr 92 17:36:59 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Cirrus Logic Inc.

In <44597@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> trinas@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (trina) writes:

>Pravin Devineni Ratnam writes, sickly enough (even I thought he couldnt get
>sicker than this):

>>MAybe, alok offered to show Trina that he can sell his sperm to a sperm
>>bank and perform the task in front of her without the help of any gay
>>magazines. The other option would be to have sex with Trina which is too
>>hideous of a thought. Even a prostitute would reject Alok.
>Oh, man, cant we keep these disgusting thoughts, at least ones with
>regard to me, off the net...I'd really appreciate it.  I already have
>the flu, I dont need to get sick again. Thanks.

Tyranny, tyranny...the thought police take over again ;-).
-- 
Venu Nayar			|		Internet: venu@cirrus.com
Cirrus Logic Inc.		|		(415)-226-2100 X3737
I don't have to take this abuse from you -- I've got hundreds of
people waiting to abuse me.
From: alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia)
Subject: Re: Help ..... save soc.culture.indian.american
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 22:36:01 GMT

In article <1992Apr8.151326.24175@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, gchacko@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (George W Chacko) writes:

> Perhaps you actually believe that you're taken seriously enough for
> people to even consider responding favourable to your suggestions?
> 
> George

You bet he is taken seriously :)

Alok
From: trinas@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (trina)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian.american
Subject: Re: Help ..... save soc.culture.indian.american
Date: 7 Apr 92 00:54:55 GMT
Article-I.D.: mentor.44161
Distribution: na
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center

siddhartha writes:

>And if you feel so strongly about sci over scia, why don't you post some
>of your "thoughts, ideas and opinions" on sci, instead of carrying on
>this asinine debate on scia. I agree with Shailesh, why don't Alok and you
>take this personal battle to the parking lot.. Enuff already !

Obviously you missed the point...anyways, I guess I shall carry on
since your comments only encourage me :) and fuel the flame war
even more. Good job. By the way, ever hear of the 'n' key?

Trina
From: raghavan@wk21.nas.nasa.gov (Venkatraman Raghavan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian.american
Subject: Re: RFD: alt.personals.india
Date: 8 Apr 92 20:19:51 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA

sridhar@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (Sridhar Venkataraman) writes:

)   alt.personals.india is an unmoderated group to be created for the 
)   discussion, promotion and exchange of ideas on all aspects of Indian
)   way of finding partners. Since this is spoiling the discussions and
)   creating quite a flame fest a.p.i is the best place for it. And
)   since this proposal is unlikely to cross all hurdles successfully for
)   being created under the mainstream Usenet hierarchies, alt would be
)   an ideal place for it.

)  The discussion period is likely to continue for a week or at the
)  most 2 weeks on alt.config or soc.culture.indian as appropriate. Or
)  if you would like - soc.culture.indian.american :-)
)
)  This is a SERIOUS proposal (not the puke.puke.puke stuff). 
)
)Sridhar.

Good. But I am afraid articles will still get cross-posted to sci
and scia, unless the posters make a conscious effort and refrain
from doing so. 

While we are on this subject, would some nice_guy/wise_guy
set-up alt.flames.indian or a.f.i.a for the flame wars,
please? Boy, I hate using that 'f' word.  \:*)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian.american
From: murthy@tree.egr.uh.edu (purna)
Subject: Re: are there prejudices?
Organization: University of Houston
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 16:15:13 GMT

ARIJIT MAHALANABIS <AXM128@psuvm.psu.edu> writes
> In article <1992Apr16.133833.24760@cbfsb.cb.att.com>,  
sbellam@cbnewsf.cb.att.com
> (susmitha.k.bellam) says:

[....stuff deleted...]

> >Yes, I know what you mean.  In most cases I would attribute this
> >type of "clumping" to factors other than prejudice.  People like my
> >parents share the same language, culture, and religious practices,
> >and probably grew up in the same area and went to the same schools
> >as other people from their home state in India.  It's nice for them
> >to associate with people who have had similar experiences.
> 
> I agree that in most cases this is the reason for clumping. But I have
> also encountered individuals (some related to me) who refuse to associate
> and even ridicule other Indian subcultures. This is something that I find
> disturbing. Has anyone else dealt with this? I remember one lady in
> particular who found it unbelieveable that one of my father's associates
> was a Bihari. She could not believe that there were educated and cultured
> Biharis as well. I think Bengalis (the subculture I've dealt with) have
> this problem a lot. A lot of Bengalis I've met seem to claim that nothing
> in this world is culture besides Rabindranath Tagore's works. I say all
> this without malice, being a Bengali myself. Is there such a population of
> individuals in every subculture?
> 
> >Susmitha
> 
> Arijit.

i think that ALL groups have such prejudiced individuals, in general.  it's  
very difficult to find any group, race, religion, etc.  that does not have  
"fanatics" who are very single-minded.  however, i'm not sure if everyone got  
my original point.

i agree that it's more "reassuring, etc" for our (parents and others) to  
associate with others from their own backgrounds, but my question was one of do  
they ACTIVELY AVOID indians of OTHER backgrounds?  has this cropped up?  what  
arijit was talking about is more along the lines of my question, however is it  
more widespread than just a "few individuals"?

also, has anyone noticed this same phenomena/trend in recent immigrants from  
india?  this is asked without malice or mis-intent -- just curious.

peace,
-purna

Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian.american