From: mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: IQ Test?
Date: 12 Jan 93 21:41:36 GMT
Followup-To: rec.org.mensa

In article <C0pvtA.EqL@ns1.nodak.edu>, galster@plains.NoDak.edu (Dwight
Galster) wrote:
> 
> In article <mike_steiner-110193143500@192.35.50.131> mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner) writes:
> >In article <1993Jan8.165043.21324@cbnewse.cb.att.com>,
> >gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart) wrote:
> >
> >[omitted]
> >
> >> On another point, why would it be so difficult to reconcile
> >> religious beliefs with evolution?  If one were to assume that
> >> there were a God, why would one have the audacity to question the
> >> "right" method for an omniscient being to "create" or modify life?
> >> It seems a bit ridiculous for a believer to question anything a
> >> supreme being would do, particularly when "acceptance" would
> >> otherwise seem to be a believer's strong suit.
> >
> >That is my belief.  Evolution is God's way of advancing/developing life.
> >
> 
> 
> On the other hand, why would we believe in a God who routinely lies about
> his past activities?  

Where has God lied?  The Tanach was written by people, not by God.

> And who bases His entire theology on one historical
> event which we disbelieve?  Christianity without creation is absurd.

I'm not Christian, so I don't care whether Christianity is absurd or not.

> If the earth is billions of years old with a history of hundreds of million
> years of evolution, that means there have been hundreds of millions of
> years of death.  Therefore it is not possible that through one man's sin
> death came into the world.  Therefore sin does not cause death, therefore
> there is no need for a savior.  Therefore Jesus Christ is irrelevant.
> This is fine for people who are not Christians, but why would a Christian
> hold a belief that makes his religion an absurdity?

I don't know; as I said, I'm not Christian.

> The above statement is absolutely correct:  "If...there were a God, why
> would one have the audacity to question the "right" method...."  Indeed.
> If he said he created it recently, and perfect, then he did, or he's not
> God and just another liar.
> 
> And if you think the Bible is not God's book but just the writings of
> fallible men, then you have, in my opinion, a very weak basis for any
> kind of religion.  If you yourself are to decide what God says and what
> God means, that effectively puts you above God.  It is the supreme form
> of idolatry. (This paragraph applies only to those calling themselves
> Christian.)

Even though I'm not Christian, I think that you're wrong.  Almost every
person who believes in the existence of God (or of a god) routinely decides
what God has said--and those who don't have their ministers, priests and
rabbis to tell them.

> Evolution is a fact?  Sure it's a fact.  It's a fact like creation is a
> fact, like the incarnation of Jesus Christ is a fact, like eternal
> salvation is a fact.  That is, it's a fact of faith, and nothing more.

No, it is a lot more than a fact of faith; it is a fact backed up by solid
evidence that it happened, but no of how it happened.

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|Now that I have a reader that can do .sigs, I can't think of a witty |
|one to put here, so I won't.  All normal disclaimers apply.          |
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