HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: spongebo@cithara.uucp (THE EYE-BALL KID)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies,alt.postmodern,alt.cult-movies
Subject: Re: Peter Greenaway
Keywords: macabre, michael nyman, dutch baroque
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 92 19:29:48 EST
Organization: Local Testbed for network mail, we trust!

tljuaa@uta.fi (Juha Aaltonen) writes:
> 
> In Greenaways case, I thought that he might be considered as one because
> of the great number of visual details in his movies, which (the details), 
> at least in my opinion, do not refer to anything - except to their own 
> existence. (signifier without signified). On the other hand, when G. uses
> the style he does -- a _new_ mix of baroque, minimalistic music and quite
> conventional story-telling -- he points to the opposite direction, i.e.
> his movies are not explications of postmodern theories. Postmodern theories
> state among other things that there is nothing new to be invented, one can
> only repeat old "thingies" with a sligthly ironic notions. Right?
> 
> my negligent english =).
> 
> --
> Juha "mixed genres" Aaltonen
> tljuaa@uta.fi

Hmmmm... Well, while I'm no theorist, I do like Greenaway (or at least 
respect him) so I'll risk puting my foot in it...

Something which someone suggested re: his films was that the "object" and 
"pictures" which fill his sets are not completely self-referential. 
Infact he has a series of codes that work on multiple levels. Since his 
back-ground is n painting (he did the drawings in The Draughtman's 
COntract!), these are probably a series of codes referring to movements 
in Art history.

I might be misconstruing your original statement (above), but I believe 
Greenaway far less "eccentric" but more "conceited" (in the creative 
sense) than people imagine. He takes a very formalistic approach to his 
film-making (I saw a documentary he did about John Cage, in which he shot 
the documentary according to Cage's "laws" -- ie, if Cage was not 
available, grenaway filmed empty chairs!). My problem with this is that 
it often complicates his stories with allegory not readily understood by 
the average viewer (well, ME. Who gives a damn about the average viewer, 
right?).

For me his best Feature is still THE DRAUGHTMAN'S CONTRACT, an allegory 
about the history of fruit, gardening, and a wonderful murder mystery 
with some of the best dialogue ever put on film. And shot for 125,000 
pounds, on Super-16mm. Unfortnately the Video version has been scanned, 
which reduces his compositions to crippled "half-frames".

Like I said, if I mis-read you, take me to pieces!

Spongebo - THE EYE-BALL KID (:::::-)

spongebo%cithara@comback.login.qc.ca
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
From: nudnik@camelot.bradley.edu (Steven Parks)
Subject: Re: BSD (Dracula) - Who to root for? (SPOILERS)
Organization: Bradley University
Date: 17 Nov 92 03:27:19 GMT

In <1992Nov17.001859.9506@u.washington.edu> redrum@carson.u.washington.edu (Joe Stremick) writes:
>In article <1e8ounINNg15@transfer.stratus.com> jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com writes:
>>-- Van Helsing is all wrong, particularly when he seems to 
>>   be used for comic relief. In these cases, he comes off as 
>>   plain silly. ("No, I don't want to perform an autopsy. I just
>>   want to take out her heart and cut off her head."  A rather
>>   dumb line to utter, when you are trying to convince several
>>   very upset people of the necessity of performing an illogical
>>   and seemingly insensitive act.)
>	Perhaps the way the line is delivered is at fault, but
>this line is in the book.

this is the way it reads in my copy, a Bantamn Classic:

DR. SEWARD'S DIARY

     ...I was undressing in my own room, when, with a premonitory tap at the 
door, he [Van Helsing] entered, and at once began to speak:--
     "To-morrow I want you to bring me, before night, a set of post-mortem 
knives."
     "Must we make an autopsy?" I asked.
     "Yes, and no.  I want to operate, but not as you think.  Let me tell you
now but not a word to another.  I want to cut off her head and take out her
heart.  Ah! you a surgeon and so shocked!  You, whom I have seen with no
tremble of hand or heart..."

etc.
--
To study a subject best, understand it thoroughly before you start.
Steven Parks  (309) 677 1271
SnailMail: 1312 W. Main #104 Peoria, IL USA 61606 
E-Mail:  nudnik@camelot.bradley.edu    or    nudnik@buhub.bradley.edu
From: gbradley@uks240.Berkeley.EDU (Gary Bradley)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
Subject: Re: Dracula:Sheesh, what a film
Date: 20 Nov 92 15:40:22 GMT
Reply-To: gbradley@uks240.Berkeley.EDU (Gary Bradley)

In article <Bxt6q4.3nK@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>,
machin@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Dave Machin) writes:
|>Stoker DID use Vlad Tepes as the basis for Dracula.  Its never mentioned in
|>the book but Vlad is definitely the source.
  
    I think most folks interested in the Dracula myth KNOW that, just
please tell me that Coppola is not suggesting that Vlad Dracul (the
factual person) somehow becomes Count Dracula (the fiction) in the
movie. I.e. please tell me that Vlad Tepes does NOT appear in the film.
That would just be too pathetic!


+---------------------+------------------------------------------+
| Gary Bradley        |   "You receive a love letter from me and |
| ORACLE Corp, UK     |                  you're f*cked forever!" |
| Edinburgh, SCOTLAND |        - Frank Booth ("Blue Velvet")     |
+---------------------+------------------------------------------+
| "God damn the censor man"                                      |
+----------------------------------------------------------------+
Organization: Junior, English, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 20:21:07 -0500 
From: "Douglas J. Brook" <db6l+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Favorite Vampire one-liners
	<92323.171327RAJA@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>

Hi.
    In the original stage version that the Lugosi original was pretty
much based on (I directed it a couple years back) my favorite lines were:

    (After Van Helsing intentionally cuts himself and Dracula lunges at
the cut but stops himself.)  The cut is not deep, I -- looked.

    Dracula: "I love England and the great London - so different from my
own Transylvania, where there are so few people and so little --
opportunity."
    Van Helsing : "Opportunity, Count?"
    Dracula: (Bowing slightly) For my investigations, Professor."

    Also Renfield quotes from the poem: "Would you walk into my parlor,
said the spider to the fly."


     It is interesting to note that Coppola's Dracula is the first to
treat him as a tragic, romantic character, which fights common
misconception.  Also, his is the first, I believe, to have the
characters of Arthur and Quincy in it.  
    On the subject of stage versions, did anybody know that there are
two Dracula musicals (in addition to as many stage plays as movies)
called "Dracula: The Musical" and "The Dracula Spectacula"?  If you have
music or anything about those I'm interested, for nostalgia.

later.
dj
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
From: yu-d@boa.cis.ohio-state.edu (Moonrise Programmer)
Subject: Re: BSD (Dracula) - Who to root for? (SPOILERS)
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 02:40:46 GMT

In article <1e8ounINNg15@transfer.stratus.com> jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com writes:

	<Lotsa stuff deleted for brevity>

)thing. Copolla obviously intended it; why else would he
)emphasize the two most famous lines from the Lugosi Dracula
)("I never drink .... wine" and "The children of the night ....   ")?
)
)
)--
)Jim Mann            
)Stratus Computer   jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com  

	Actually the line "I never drink ... wine." was included at the
urging of Gary Oldman who wanted to pay homage to the older film according to
an interview on TV (I forget exactly where I saw this).

yu-d@cis.ohio-state.edu

Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
From: oliver@athena.mit.edu (James D. Oliver III)
Subject: Re: spike lee &  boston celtics
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 05:38:49 GMT

In article <1ed5rlINN8br@seven-up.East.Sun.COM> joneil@heretix.East.Sun.COM (John O'Neil - SunExpress IR) wrote:
> i have never seen any spike lee movies, but i understand he has a problem with
> larry bird and the celtics. i read a interview where he states he hopes the red sox and the 
> celtics never will another game.  does anyone know any more info on this, just what is this 
> guy's problem.

I guess that I and a lot of other folks have the same "problem", then.

And I love it when people start out with "I've never seen any of his
movies, but . . ."  Adds real credibility to the rest of your post.
--
____________________________
	Jim Oliver  
	oliver@athena.mit.edu /	joliver@hstbme.mit.edu
	oliver%mitwccf.BITNET@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
From: isbell@ai.mit.edu (Charles L Isbell)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
Subject: Re: spike lee &  boston celtics
Date: 20 Nov 92 09:09:19
Organization: MIT Artificial Intelligence Laboratory
	<75399@hydra.gatech.EDU> <1992Nov19.165148.18751@cs.ucla.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: panther.ai.mit.edu
In-reply-to: reiher@ficus.cs.ucla.edu's message of Thu, 19 Nov 92 16:51:48 GMT


gt9398b@prism.gatech.EDU (Christopher R. Boggs) writes:
>    Spike Lee is simply increasing the paranoia over "racism". Movies such
>as his do nothing but make people paranoid and look for "racism". And when
>you are paranoid about it to the extent that American public is, you tend to
>see it everywhere you look. He is doing _nothing_ to help fight "racism", but
>at the same time, he is making tons of money by using it as a vehicle for his
>own personal gain. The only reason he is so "well liked" is that he happened
>to come along at a point in time when his brand of propaganda has been whole
>heartedly embraced. In my opinion, its sad and he is doing more harm than good.

Since I am a graduate of Ga Tech, I will appeal to your engineering
education.  Please explain how Spike Lee's movies increase paranoia
over "racism" in each of his widely-seen films:

1) _She's Gotta Have It_
2) _School Daze_
3) _Do The Right Thing_
4) _Mo' Better Blues_
5) _Jungle Fever_
6) _Malcolm X_

Also, be certain to point to specific scenes and themes in each of the
films.  Point out inconsistencies with reality, whether real or
implied.

Define propoganda and contrast Spike Lee's brand with "A Dry White
Season", "Mississippi Burning" and "Driving Miss Daisy."

Explain what he *should* be during to "help fight racism."  Compare it
to your efforts and the efforts of your friends, your school, and
other filmmakers.

Finally, explain the relevance of your analysis to his skill as a
filmmaker and ability to tell a story.  Be sure to outline your
opinion on the likely longevity of his films and the probable view of
future art critics with regards to him.


--
Peace.
"I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the
 social and political equality of the white and black races--I am not,
 nor ever have been, in favor of making voters or jurors of Negroes, nor
 of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people."
                                      -Abraham Lincoln
                                       First Lincoln-Douglas Debate
                                       August 21, 1858
                                   -\--/-
    Don't just adopt opinions     |  \/  |       Some of you are homeboys
          develop them.           |  /\  | but only I am The Homeboy From hell
                                   -/--\-
From: bchurch@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu (Robert Church)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
Subject: Re: Extended versions on T.V.
Date: 17 Nov 92 01:32:27 GMT
Organization: Ohio University School of Art. Athens

In article <17517@mindlink.bc.ca> Charlie_Hutchins@mindlink.bc.ca (Charlie Hutchins) writes:
>This may seem a bit ambitious but I would like to know what movies
>(especially science fiction films) have appeared on television with extra
>footage. I know both Star Trek II and Aliens have been on t.v. with extra

'Manhunter' had a scene where Graham went to the home of the next intended 
victims. 

-- 
*********************************************
*    bob church                             *
*    bchurch@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu           *
*    D-8195 NFS #27                         *
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
From: jenn@objy.com (Jennifer Hom)
Subject: Re: Dracula sucked
Reply-To: jenn@objy.com
Organization: Objectivity, Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 23:32:36 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.144642.28322@scott.skidmore.edu>, dtschett@saims.skidmore.edu (donna tschetter) writes:
|> 
|> A quick scan of the Net shows that women liked this movie as a whole
|> and men were critical.  The guy I saw it with agrees with you-he was bored.
|> I really enjoyed it. :>

Mostly true, I suppose, but then, the  guy I saw it with said that he thought that it was
the best movie he's seen in a couple years ... :)  Of course, I should also mention that
I loved it .... (The screenwriter was at the "sneak-preview" showing I was at, and he
gave a rather interesting speech ... I thought the movie was _never_ going to start ...)


-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Objectivity, Inc.	| Any views represented | Jennifer L. Hom
800 El Camino Real	|  are strictly my own	| jenn@objy.com
Menlo Park, CA  94025	|  & have nothing to do	| uunet!objy.com!jenn
			| with the company ...	| (aka jenn@soda.berkeley.edu)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
Subject: Re: First "Dracula" Goof - Minor Spoiler
From: Todd Bobenrieth <TAB129@psuvm.psu.edu>
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 11:01:31 EST
Organization: Penn State University

I noticed a goof too... In the asylum, when Renfield attacked the psychiatrist
(I forget his name), he bit the doc's neck on the right side, but when Renfield
was pulled away, the doc clutched the LEFT side of his neck...
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
From: ckt4x@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (The Mantle Clinic)
Subject: Re: What happened with RoboCop 3?
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 14:56:15 GMT

hatcher@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca  writes:
> 
>   I seem to remember a while ago that Orion pictures was making RoboCop 3.
> I also remember hearing that Peter Weller didn't want to do the part, so
> they had to recast.  

Robert Burke, of Hal Hartley's The Unbelievable Truth and
Simple Men, plays Murphy in Robo3.

> I do remember seeing some preliminary footage on 
> Entertainment Tonight, where they said that R3 would be out sometime this year.
> Well, as you all know, Orion had some financial troubles (let's face it, they
> went bankrupt.) And, I have not heard anything about R3 since. (Well, I did
> see an add for a Nintendo game based on R3).  Does anyone know when R3 will
> be released?  A better question, perhaps, would be, did the movie get finished? 

From what I understand, the movie's been completed for a long
time and ready to be shown, but since Orion went under and
can't distribute it, some other studio has to buy it first, and
I guess no one's taking....
--
                     A helpless victim of society...
                                Curt Tsui
                            curt@Virginia.EDU            
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
From: reiher@ficus.cs.ucla.edu (Peter Reiher)
Subject: Re: The Bodyguard
Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 23:51:45 GMT

In article <BxzG7F.6E0@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> keenstev@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Steve Keen) writes:
>Has anyone heard any advance word on The Bodyguard with Whitney Houston
>and Kevin Costner?

There was minor fuss in Hollywood about the producers (who include the
screenwriter, Lawrence Kasdan) recutting the director's version.  At one
point, there were rumors that Houston had proven a poor actress, but all
involved with the film deny that, and, from what one sees in the trailers,
there's no evidence that she is incompetent.

-- 
		Peter Reiher
		reiher@wells.cs.ucla.edu
From: dollens@equinox.unr.edu (C Blake Dollens)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
Subject: Re: Favorite Vampire one-liners
Date: 22 Nov 92 00:32:21 GMT
Organization: University of Nevada, Reno

In article <87553@bcsaic.boeing.com> vanover@bcsaic.boeing.com (Jann VanOver) writes:
>In article <Bxwxzq.IHn@world.std.com> rjk@world.std.com (robert j kolker) writes:
>>Here are my favorite vampire one-liners from the Vampire movies I have seen:

>>	Listen to them....children of the night -- Dracula (Lagosi version)

>    Listen to them....children of the night, What music they make!
>                            Bram Stoker 

"Children of the night.... Shut up!"
                       -George Hamilton, "Love at First Bite"

Blake
-- 
"That's All"            | "A common mistake that people make when trying to
  -Phil, Mike, and Tony |  design something completely foolproof [is] to
Blake Dollens           |  underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools."
dollens@equinox.unr.edu |                 -Douglas Adams, _Mostly Harmless_
From: mikeq@freddy.CNA.TEK.COM (Mike Quigley)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
Subject: Re: Tough question but perhaps wrong group
Date: 18 Nov 92 17:36:21 GMT
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Redmond,  OR.

In article <102458@bu.edu> kuchar@buast7.bu.edu (Tom Kuchar) writes:

              *Lots o' stuff omitted*

>The film was orginally called `Party at Kitty and Stud's' and fell
>into obscurity.  It was retitled `Italian Stallion' after Rocky made
>Stallone famous, to capitalize on his fame. So the nickname was based
>on Rocky and not the aforemention skin flick. It's available on video
>from cult movie outlets. By today's standards, it would receive an R
>

Along these same lines, CNN today had a blip about Arnie Steroidnegger
suing someone for releasing an early gay porn film he starred in.

Now, is this the same Arnie that cozies up to George ``nomohomo'' Bush??

Hmmmmmm. Enquiring minds want to know.


Mike
From: darrenl@natinst.com (Darren Lilie)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
Subject: A DIEHARD Question
Date: 17 Nov 1992 08:29:45 -0600
Organization: National Instruments, Austin, TX
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: eagle.natinst.com

I believe this has been discussed before but I dont remember what was 
said.  In  DIEHARD when McClane asked Hans what his name was he said
a name which was on the marquee behind him. McClane looked at the marquee
and knew that he was lying.  How did he know this.  If Hans was an actual
person that worked their, wouldnt his name be on the marquee, and the
marquee would be in the general area where Hans was found because had he
really been this person(Was it William Clay) wouldnt he have been hiding in
his office or somewhere nearby.  I mean that whatever floor that William  
Clay's? office was on its likely that the marquee would be on that same floor. 

Darren
 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
From: bac2a@Virginia.EDU ("Bryan Alexis Conner")
Subject: Re: Help settle a stupid bet over War of the Roses.
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 00:37:08 GMT

cccsims@it-cap-39.ucdavis.edu  writes:
> 
> 
>    Due to my V.C.R. being stolen not to long ago I can`t just rent War of the
> Roses to settle the bet myself. That said, the bet is:  I say Turner shrugged
> Douglas off at the very end of the movie but my friend thinks that Douglas
> shruged Turner off (by the end I mean when they die).  Thanks..
> 
> Jonathan Sims
> Unix/VMS consultant, U.C. Davis Information Technologies
> jlsims@ucdavis.edu
> cccsims@hamlet.ucdavis.edu
No more guessing is involved. Turner does shrug off Douglas. I
recently saw the movie again on laser disc, and you have an
option of tlistening to the movie along with a scene by scene
commentary by actor/director Danny De Vito. When they get to
that scene, Devito clearly says that Turner shruggs off
Douglas, but was surprised how many people thought it was the
other way around. He thought he made it clear.
From: eric@npri6.npri.com (Eric Williams)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
Subject: Re: Peter Greenaway
Summary: not enough $
Keywords: macabre, michael nyman, dutch baroque
Date: 17 Nov 92 21:46:38 GMT
Organization: NPRI, Alexandria VA

In article <1992Nov16.132526.9913@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, echristo@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Elena A Christofides) writes:
> >Dante's Inferno never reached the US as far as I know. Has anyone seen it on 
> video?
> >Prospero's Books is his latest and his worst. It is terribley overbearing 
>like
> a spoiled child whose been given too much money and too many video cameras to 
> do with as he pleases! I really enjoy his movies (although I admit that I 
> almost got sick at the end of The Cook, etc.) but Prospero's Books was too, 
>too
> much! He's indulging too much.
> 
> > Doc

What an idiotic statement! If anything, I would have like to have seen
his budget for PB tripled, quadrupled... More opulence! Have you read
the film's companion book? The film was far far more understated than
the the screenplay. Come to think of it, the printed version was a wish book 
or fantasy just like the miraculous books depicted in the film. 
If only wishes could come true...

-------- eric@npri.com ---------- or ---------- ...uunet!uupsi!npri6!eric -----
                          Stop me before I post again!                          
Eric C. Williams/ NPRI/ Alexandria, VA/ USA/ (703) 683-9090/ Usual disclaimers.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
From: roland@quadsys.com (Roland Besserer)
Subject: Re: Planet of the Apes
Organization: QUAD Systems
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 08:03:26 GMT

In article <69591@cup.portal.com> Harv@cup.portal.com (Harv R Laser) writes:
>Planet of the Apes was released the same year as 2001: A Space Odyssey.
>Apes won the Oscar for Best Costumes.  It was later noted by 
>either a media critic or Kubrick himself that the Academy voters
>probably didn't realize the pre-humans in 2001's "Dawn of Man"
>sequence were very agile dancers in costume, and that they probably
>thought they were very well trained simians of some kind. Compare
>if you wish, the simian costume jobs on both films and draw your
>own conclusions :-) 
>

Right! I almost had to laugh out loud at the ape sequence in 2001.
The costumes were substandard even for the times. 

Planet of the Apes was a stunner, though. Probably one of the most
powerful endings of any movie.
-- 

Roland Besserer
QUAD Systems
roland@quadsys.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
From: hafner@ifi.unizh.ch (Michel Hafner)
Subject: Re: Raul Julia in "The Plague"
Organization: University of Zurich, Department of Computer Science
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 92 12:44:09 GMT

In article <24064@galaxy.ucr.edu> stranger@watserv.ucr.edu writes:
>In the Pantages Theatre playbill of the Raul Julia
>and Sheena Easton revival of "Man of La Mancha" 
>from Los Angeles, the credits section of Mr.Julia
>says that he has made (or will make) a film version
>of Albert Camus' "The Plague."  I like Raul Julia's
>acting and I *love* Albert Camus, so I'm wondering
>if anyone out there knows anything about this.  I
>read about this from the playbill on 18 Decmeber 
>1991 when I saw the show.  It's been almost a year
>now and I haven't heard of a release date or any-
>thing.  So if there is some sort of information
>out there, please respnd directly to me instead
>of posting.  

The movie was presented in Cannes 92 and released in France in the autumn.
From the "lists":
Plague, The (1992)  AKA  Peste, La
(1992)
Puenzo, Luis (dir)
Barr, Jean-Marc (acr)
Duvall, Robert (acr)
Hurt, William (acr)
Julia, Raul (acr)
Bonnaire, Sandrine (acs)

I have seen it. It's gloomy art-house cinema with good performances, but the
critics in their majority didn't like it. I myself was rather impressed.
								M.H.