From: kosinov@ceg.uiuc.edu (Greg Kosinovsky)
Subject: Re: Communism as a Russian guilt (racist concepti
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 23:57:10 GMT

verbit@brauer.harvard.edu (Mikhail S. Verbitsky) writes:

>In article <kosinov.724976519@ceg.uiuc.edu> kosinov@ceg.uiuc.edu (Greg Kosinovsky) writes:

>>  It is, indeed, very silly to compare Astafiev and Zhabotinsky (it's an
>>insult to Zhabotinsky). However, Jewish nationalists I had in mind were people
>>like the great Jewish poet Bialik, who was not guilty of any Russophobia, and
>>yet not published, while anti-Semites like "derevenschiky" had no problems
>>whatsoever.

>	Both assertions are wrong; derevenshchiks have had much
>	more problems with censure than, say, Anatolii Rybakov.
>	And I read Byalik in Bryusov's translation, in Soviet
>	book printed circa 1970.
 I have no idea what Rybakov has to do with the question of Jewish books in
Brezhnev era. I am also very happy to find out that there was an official
printing of Byalik (I only saw hand-typed versions that "made the rounds"),
however, it is an exceptin that proves the rule.

>>  Can Mr. Borodin, or anybody else point out ANY contempory writings about Jewish
>>life that were published at that time? In fact, the only Jewish writers of ANY
>>time who were published in USSR at that time were Sholom Aleihem, who wrote 
>>about the pre- Revolutionary Jewish "shtetl", and German-Jewish Socialist Leon
>>Feicht-Wanger who wrote about the Jewish persecution by the "bad guys" -- from
>>Ferdinand and Isabella to Hitler.

>	Also wrong: Kvitko, Markish were pretty well available.
>	And much more. How was the guy who wrote "Zelionaya Kareta"
>	called? BTW, Aleksandr Kanevskii is a very good writer.
>	Arkadii L'vov also got published before he emigrated.
>	Not bad for 0.8%)
 What was the year of the publication of Markish that you saw? I would guess
it would be around the time of the "Thaw" (after all, he was "reabilitirovan").
How much is "much more"? Now some questions, in part, to lift my own ignorance?
What is Zelenaya Kareta about? Were Kanevskii and L'vov Jewish writers, or
Russian (or Russian-Soviet) writers who were Jews? When did they write? When
Were they published?
 Even if answers to all those questions go against my thesis, how do they
establish that it's "Not bad for .8% ?

>>  Now, Aleihem and Feicht-Wanger were great writers (especially the former), but
>>hardly the A-Z of Jewish literature.

>	Sholom-Aleihem is probably the most important Yiddish
>	writer..................
 That could be true, although there are worthy competitors to that title even
among contemporary Yiddish writers (Singer, for instance), but does that, in 
fact, make him "A-Z of Jewish Literature"?

>">  The suppression of Jewish culture was deliberate and nearly
>>absolute." ?

>	I'd say that this is a case of hypocrisy
  Obviously, you would, Mr.Verbitsky, which is why I took issue with your views. 
However, let me ask you:
 If the statement of mine that you quoted is so untrue and even hypocritical,
then what are you doing in America?
 Also, congradulations! You are not only the first Jew, but the first
non anti-Semite I ever heard saying that Jewish culture wasn't suppressed in
USSR. 



>>One of the
>>intended consequences of this suppression was symbolized by a 1979 article in
>>my hometown newspaper Vecherni Minsk by one of the "Official designated anti-
>>Semites" of the USSR, a fellow named Begun. His thesis was that Jews were such
>>low creatures, that through all their years of wandering on this earth they 
>>produced no significant art, and the only literature of consequence they 
>>contributed was that of Sholom Aleihem. The interesting thing is, of course, that
>>even the better read of the public could hardly argue with that -- what counter-
>>examples did they have available?

>	Yes, Begun was a pretty swell guy (like Shefarevich).
>	Anyway, they both were oppressed, at least Begun claimed
>	that he is persecuted by KGB. About Shafarevich you know.

 Shafarevich was oppressed for dissident activities (such as supporting
Sakharov and Solzhenitzin). His Russian xenophobic sentiments didn't become known
untill fairly recently, and they were hardly the sourse of his troubles with
Soviet authorities.
 As for Begun, well I guess that frequent publications in a major regional
newspaper is a sign of KGB persrcution.

>>  No one denies that Russians, like other nationalities in the xUSSR, were
>>thoroughly raped by the commies. My original point was that while some 
>>cultures, such as the jewish one were thorougly suppressed, as were pro-democracy
>>dissidents, communists  left more of the Russian culture intact than that
>>of most others simply because of its size and pre-eminance, and, in fact,
>>encouraged, rather than suppressed, some of the more base aspects of Russian 
>>nationalism, and tried to channel them towards their cause ('Soyuz nerushimy 
>>respublic svobodnih sozdala naveky velikaya Rus ...'). 

>	The saying "I was raped more heavily that thou"
>	is of extremely bad tone. Contemporary Russian
>	writers who lived outside of USSR were banned,
>	as were Jewish ones; dissidents too. All others
>	were tolerated as far as their loyality went.
>	Monarchists and anticommunistic nationalists
>	(as, say, neo-Nazi) were considered most disloyal,
>	and otkazniks - less. Period.

>	Misha.
 I would sincerely hope that otkazniks were treated better than Nazis; if that is
the kind of argument that's needed to disprove my case, then I might as well rest
it, which I will, as soon as I make the following observations.
 1) "I was raped more heavily than thou" is a normal statement, if it happens to
be true.
 2) This whole discussion started when I took issue with you telling to some
Balt that he was "raped less than the Russians".

					   Greg.
P.S. I'm leaving the country tomorrow for more than 2 weeks, and I hope you
provide some details that I asked for regarding Jewish writers before then.
Thanx.



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