From: leet@ims.com (Lee Thomas)
Subject: Re: Efficacy of Prayer
Organization: Integrated Measurement Systems, Inc.
	<1992Nov3.073320.26308@blaze.cs.jhu.edu>
	<1992Nov5.023048.5761@hfsi.uucp>
	<1992Nov5.100045.9262@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 17:32:41 GMT

>>>>> On 5 Nov 92 15:00:45 GMT, kambic@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com (Bonus, Iniquus, Celer - Delegitus Duo) said:

GX> Since each religion must be interpreted, who is to judge?  Is it
GX> the religion or the person that is distorted?

Or, as Pontius Pilate put it, "What is truth?"

GX> In article <1992Nov5.023048.5761@hfsi.uucp>, ata@hfsi.uucp (John Ata - FSO) writes:

> One must be very
> careful when judging a religion to separate the human members of
> the religion from the religion itself.  If the founder of the
> religion has led an exemplary life above criticism, then their
> fruit (the religion) can be judged on its own merit.  If the
> founder's ideas and philosophy are above reproach, then again the
> fruit can be judged on it's own merit.  However, if followers of
> the religion (even in high places) in that religion do not follow
> the founder but veer away for their own agenda, then their fruit
> can be seen.  However, I suggest that their fruit is not the
> religion itself, but merely their own behaviour. 

GX> I believe that your suggestion is wron, because it is
GX> nonfalsifiable, which might be the case in any set of
GX> circumstances.  The way I read the above paragraph is: if the
GX> founder is great, I win; if the religion is great, I win; if the
GX> followers veer away, I win again. All because the answer must fit
GX> *my* (read your) criteria for a good religion.  Non-falsifiable.
GX> You pose no criteria which anyone else can use that is other than
GX> subjective.  BTW, this is not a flame.

If we are to propose falsifiable tests for the value of Christianity,
it would then be best to analyze every act performed by any supposed
adherent to the religion, and then assign a moral value to it, either
positive or negative.  The sum of all such values should then give us
the desired result, and then one can proceed either to promote or to
eradicate Christianity based on that result.  (And if Christianity is
truly responsible for all the evil that has been ascribed to it by
some other participants in this discussion, then it should by all
means be made illegal wherever possible, and its followers should be
punished just as the Nazi war criminals were.)

Of course, the ability to even be aware of all acts by Christians
would be called "omniscience" ... and the ability to assign a valid
moral value to each act would imply that the assigner is holy enough
to make such a judgment.  Of course, one must also be able to see
across the centuries, since some acts by kings and conquerors are
far-reaching indeed (like Alexander's Hellenization policy).


--
Lee Thomas,  leet@ims.com      | "For thou hast said in thine heart, I will
Integrated Measurement Systems |  ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne
9525 SW Gemini Dr.             |  above the stars of God; I will sit also upon
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(503) 626-7117, ext. 1558      |  of the north," - Isaiah 14:12          THUMP!