From: system@kalki33.lakes.trenton.sc.us (Kalki Dasa)
Newsgroups: talk.origins
Subject: They want to debate Phillip Johnson
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 93 15:04:13 EST
Organization: Kalki's Infoline BBS, Aiken, SC, USA


An open letter to Dr. Phillip Johnson:

philjohn@garnet.berkeley.edu (Phillip Johnson) writes:

> I am not sure that it is possible to hold a discussion in this
> group, because the majority of participants seem to consider the
> neo-Darwinian theory to be so obviously true that doubt is not
> taken seriously.  

It is true that most of the participants in this newsgroup take some 
form of Darwinism as absolute fact. Furthermore, most of them 
believe that it has been "proven scientifically" and therefore doubt is
not to be taken seriously.

> On that basis, what is there to discuss?     

Nothing, if the basis is to be the stipulation that Darwinism (in 
some form or another) is "obviously true."

The people who benefit from your postings are those few who do not 
take Darwinism as obviously true. However, since the issue of 
Darwinism goes beyond mere "science," most of the individuals on this 
group are also (consciously or subconsciously) pursuing 
philosophical, political and religious agendas. Because of this, the 
opponents of Darwinism do not generally cooperate among themselves.

For example, I am a member of the Hare Krishna movement, and I am 
vigorously opposed to Darwinism as an explanation for the diversity 
of species. My position is that the species of life were created, more
or less in their presently observed forms, by a transcendental supreme
being, God. Yet I receive no support whatsoever from the fundamentalist
Christian "creationists" in this newsgroup, who regard Krishna
consciousness as the work of the devil.

The basis of Darwinism is materialism, i.e. the proposition that 
there is nothing in existence except matter and material energy, and 
nothing ever influences matter except other matter or material energy.

The basis of creationism is that there is something else in addition 
to matter. There is a "spiritual" element, which is not detectable by 
scientific instruments, but which is nevertheless real, and which 
exerts a definite controlling influence on material phenomena.

Neither of these positions is arrived at by "science." They are
world-views, grand philosophical statements about what is reality, based
on an individual's assessment of his own desires and experiences.

> If there is to be any hope to go beyond browbeating (a style of
> argument that may silence dissenters but never convinces them),
> the subject must be one about which there is a concededly a
> reasonable basis for disagreement.

Well, yes, but the things that Darwinists regard as having a "reasonable
basis for disagreement" are limited to technical details that do not
threaten the grand Darwinistic world-view. If you limit yourself to
these minor details, you will be loved by the Darwinists, but as soon as
you attempt to draw any broad negative conclusions about the grand
Darwinistic world-view, no matter how many technical points you have
scored, you will immediately become the subject of a browbeating "flame
war," and all your careful attention to detail will count for nothing.

[... stuff about peppered moth deleted ...]

In summary: Your postings are very much appreciated, but not by the
Darwinists, who sense that your world-view is opposed to their own, and
who will therefore use every trick at their disposal to draw out of you
a sweeping statement that is, in their opinion, "not scientific," such
as an admission that you believe that God created the diverse species in
generally the same form as they are seen today. If that happens,
whatever follows will be useless flaming.

Sincerely,
Kalki Dasa

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      |    Kalki's Infoline BBS Aiken, South Carolina, USA      |
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Newsgroups: talk.origins