HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: lydick@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Speaker-to-Minerals)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: God and Science: The Ramblings of The Nightstalker
Date: 21 Nov 1992 01:54:15 GMT
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
Distribution: world
Reply-To: lydick@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu

In article <1992Nov20.205017.12655@midway.uchicago.edu>, mss2@quads.uchicago.edu (Michael S. Schiffer) writes:
>	"Well, I've explained my take on it as well as I'm able: that
>moral situations only exist within a context, that sometimes the only
>choice may be between two evils, that intent is important with respect
>to both means and ends, and that belief in a standard is not the same
>as belief that one knows the standard inside and out.  Conversely, my
>problem with relativism is that it implies that an identical action,
>under identical circumstances, with identical intent, may be right for
>Jane and wrong for Joe--

StM answers, "But there seems to be a problem here: How do you define things so
that you can have `an identical action, under identical circumstances, with
identical intent' when you've got two different people as the actors?  Unless
Jane and Joe are, themselves, identical, then you've got different
circumstances and/or different intent.  If, on the other hand, Jane and Joe ARE
identical, then they'll take identical actions.  It looks to me like you're
using as the basis for your argument a hypothetical situation that's literally
impossible."
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: tje3@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu
Subject:  A bit of strangeness
Originator: tje3@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu
Reply-To: tje3@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Tammy Jo Eckhart)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 18:09:20 GMT

	The Lamplighter is sitting over at a table near the fireplace, along
with some unusual characters.  One of them is a rather portly gentleman with
only a small amount of gray hair remaining (re-mane-ing?) him, wearing a gray
suit.  Another is a bearded individual, shorter than the Lamplighter, wearing
a black-and-multicolored thingamajig with fringes down the arms, along with
various necklaces, rings and bracelets.  This fellow says, "Kind of nice in
here, isn't it, Mr. Gray?"

	"If you like this kind of thing," replies the large man in the suit.
"Singing -- waste of breath, no money in it.  Sharing feelings -- good for
productivity, but too much of it's a waste of time.  But I like the drink
prices."

	"Well, at least there's something you like," says the Lamplighter.
"I kind of thought you'd like it, Moonbeam."  He nods to the guy with the
jewelry.

	Suddenly Tom runs in, leaving the door swinging.  Tom looks exactly
like the Lamplighter, except that his clothes are normal for this day and
age.  He's got what looks like a songbook with him; he runs to the table and
says, "Want to sing some carols?"

	"A bit early for that, isn't it?" asks the Lamplighter.

	"Which ones?" asks Moonbeam.

	"Waste of breath," says Mr. Gray.

	"Well," begins Tom, "How about ...

	I heard the bells on Christmas Day
	Their old familiar carols play
	And wild and sweet the words repeat
	Of peace on Earth, goodwill to men ..."

	"To men?" Moonbeam interrupts.  "Sounds sexist to me.  And what about
people who don't celebrate Christmas?"

	"Ahem," Tom continues.  "How about this one?...

	Here we come a-caroling, among the leaves so green,
	Here we come a-wand'ring, so fair to be seen ..."

	"Fair?" Mr. Gray interrupts.  "Not fair to me.  I just don't get
music.  Now the music industry, that's something else.  Money there."

	Tom sighs, kind of growling-like, and sings,

	"Deck us all with Boston Charlie,
	Walla Walla, Wash., an' Kalamazoo!"

	Grinning, the Lamplighter interrupts.  "Sounds kinda unfair to people
from Boston."

	"Named Charlie," adds Moonbeam.

	"Grr ..." says Tom.

	"Do I smell smoke?" wonders Mr. Gray.

	"Hey, this is a no-smoking table!" says Moonbeam.

	"Where'd Tom go?" asks the Lamplighter.

-         -    -  - -=---------=----=--=-=#=========#====#==#=#*#########*####*
The Lamplighter             |"There's only so many times you can type 'Pat
(Tom Lee)                   | Buchanan' into a word processor before the
tje3@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu | system crashes."                    -- Love & War
*####*#########*#=#==#====#=========#=-=--=----=---------=- -  -    -         -
"Deck Us All with Boston Charlie" is found in the book of the same title by
Walt Kelly, and elsewhere in his "Pogo" comic strip.
From: JBrandt@AAA.UOregon.EDU (Jay Brandt (Jason))
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: I made it!
Date: 16 Nov 92 16:30:15 GMT
Followup-To: alt.callahans
Organization: University of Oregon, Architecture
NNTP-Posting-Host: aaa.uoregon.edu

In article <4224@bcstec.ca.boeing.com>, pierceha@bcstec.ca.boeing.com
(Heather Pierce) wrote:
> 
> 
>  I finally found Callahans!  It feels wonderful to be here.  I some incredible
>  hunk rubbing my back <how like Callahans, eh?
>                                          Heather

Jason chuckles over at his table. He leans over to a feline woman sitting
with him and says in a deep, rich voice "Well Thyra, It looks like we have
another client for a backrub." She purrs back at him. "Hrmmmmm. I think
she'd prrreferr getting a backrub from you, my friend, rather than me. Most
of the ladies here would agree that you fit her description. Besides,
Pegasus won't mind so long as all you give her is a backrub and a hug. Go
on! Get over there and introduce us."

Heather sees the six foot tall, 180 pound man get up and stroll in her
direction. He moves with the smooth grace of a dancer or a martial artist.
His beard and hair are dark brown, with the hair tied back in a short
pony-tail. It's a little hard to tell with the black leather jacket that
he's wearing, but he seems to be in pretty good shape. He smiles, and the
smile is reflected in his blue eyes. "Hi Heather! Welcome to Callahans. If
you like backrubs, I'd be glad to oblige you. My name's Jason, and my
feline friend over there is Thyra." Heather looks back at the table to see
the golden furred, feline/human woman is smiling at her too. "Welcome
friend," says Thyra "Always glad to find new folk here."

<Hugs>
Jason & Thyra
.
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: edotto@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Ed Otto)
Subject: T-Day -10 and Counting...
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 22:03:07 GMT

Well now...

Not here to drink, due to the pain meds for my throat...

Just wanted to remind you all that ChambanaCon XXII is Friday, Nov. 27 thru
Sunday, Nov. 29, at the Chancellor Hotel, Champaign, IL.

See you all there - I will be there on THURSDAY because I am doing some stuff
this year that's special - I'm running a World Builder Panel, and need ALL your help I can get.


-- 
Edward C. Otto III			* e-otto@uiuc.edu
Ex-systems Manager			* edotto@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu
University of Illinois			* Voice: 217/333-9250
Printing Services Office		* Fax:   217/244-7277
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: Martin A Laster <mlaster@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Write a short story
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 20:13:26 GMT


This is for all you creative story writers.  Let's see how well you can write.

If you could create a character for you to be for only one night at your
favorite night club, what would you think would happen that night at that
club.  Explain in detail the following;
 
	1) your character (i.e. employee, user)
	2) your night at the club (i.e. things you did, people you met)
  
Please keep it as realistic as possible, but also creative as possible.
This is for a study that I am doing for a night club owner who is planning
to open a new club.

Send all replies to this post to vlusane@magnusug.acs.ohio-state.edu

Have Fun !!!!!!!!!

Thank you


Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: God and Science:  The Ramblings of The Nightstalker
From: jwwalden@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu (P'relan)
Date: 17 Nov 92 22:19:47 -0500
Organization: Dept. of Physics

In article <1992Nov17.012155.27920@news.Hawaii.Edu>, mwasson@minnie.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Michael Wasson) writes:
> If I say, 'I believe the world is flat,' that's a *claim* that the
> world is, in fact, flat.  You wouldn't say 'I believe the world is
> flat but I'm wrong.'  Moral relativists seem to be saying something
> quite like that in the realm of normative truths.  'I personally 
> believe that X is wrong, though it may not be wrong for somebody else'
> is just like saying 'I believe the world is flat but it may not be
> flat for somebody else'.  By this argument, moral relativism is not
> distinct from moral nihilism -- itself a consistent enough position if
> you care to adopt it, but one most moral relativists would (I think)
> shy away from."

True, though that's not the definition of moral relativism which I customarily
use.  I see moral relativism as meaning that one admits that one does not know
absolutely what is right or wrong, but has a concept of morality which one
follows and attempts to improve.  Other moralities may be right but until you
see that they are, you stick with yours.

Anyway, even with your definition (which admittedly is probably the more common
definition), your argument seems invalid to me.  The fact that the world is
flat is a fact which can be brought to experiment to be proven right or wrong,
while whether a certain act is wrong is not a question that can be brought to
experiment or science.  See, we're back at the subject of the thread already!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 P'relan (and Birith)      	   ``Time stand still -
 jwwalden@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu      I'm not looking back -
  or jwwalden@miavx1.bitnet	     But I want to look around me now.'' - RUSH
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: maryb@cix.compulink.co.uk (Mary Branscombe)
Subject: Re:  Science and god:  Are they incompatible?  If so, why?
Reply-To: maryb@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 15:46:00 +0000


"Can we differentiate between religion1, what people believe about 
their god/s as doctrine; religion2, their personal beliefs and the 
personal behaviours those lead to; and religion3, organised religion 
and its appurtences? That way you can say that the church has been 
responsible for some truly awful things without saying Christianity 
condones it. Definition of terms at the begining of a discussion 
makes you think what you're saying as well as lessening the chances 
of being misunderstood."
Mary looks down 
"Ooh! is that the beginning of a soap-box?
Current state of the churches - the Catholic church is still (as fas 
I know) saying that you shouldn't use a condom even to stop AIDS. 
This can kill people. The Anglican church has just voted to admit 
women priests (finally)  but it has a very odd attitude to gay 
priests - it's OK if they are gay as long as they are celibate. If 
the theory is OK then the practise should be as long as it is done 
responsibly. Straight priests don't have to be celibate in that 
church...
These are religion3 in my terms above. They're not the Spanish 
Inquisition but they don't seem like examples of the loving-kindness 
that I believe the Bible shows Christ preaching (*not* a comment on 
authenticity. Wait till I finish reading the Unauthorised Version, 
Robin Lane-Fox. I will happily post a summary if anyone wants to hear 
it)"
Mary clambers down
"Yup, I think it's a soap box. Not so sure about heights... "
She looks around to see if anyone wants an "it's turning in to a goos 
week after all" hug

mary
apprentice potter
+-------------------------------------------+--------------------------+
| Ommmmmm said the lift                     |maryb@cix.compulink.co.uk |
|                                           |maryb@cix.compulink.uucp  |
+-------------------------------------------+--------------------------+

Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: dunk@carson.u.washington.edu (John Dunkelburg)
Subject: Various Thoughts....
Summary: Some various and deep (and some not so deep) thoughts...
Keywords: various thoughts
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 23:58:17 GMT

B'Naal speaks up...
   Friend Taldin, when I was in Olympia, the form I wore was one
that brought me some put-downs.   You see, I decided to have some
sideburns as a way of being original.   As the clothing that I
wore was not visually flashy but definitely not what the so-called
'in-crowd' wore, I sort of stood out.   One day, somebody behind me
called me Elvis.   Now, while I might sort of like the music of
Mr. Presley, I did not like being called something I was not.   However,
I decided that a response to such low-caliber minds was not necessary.
A friend I had in Olympia had a problem with his last name.   Quite
often, he drew quite a lot of flack because of it (and some of it
not very nice, to boot), and all of it because some small-minded
individuals decided that they could entertain their small minds
by making fun of another person.   He got angry over this, and asked
them to please stop it.   This only caused them to double their
efforts until he finally left.   They tried following him, but he
just ignored them.   They grew bored of it after a short while, and
left him alone.
   the reason why I am saying this, friend Taldin, is that quite often,
confronting your hecklers will only tell them that they're getting
to you, and provides stimulus for them to continue because they got
a reaction out of you.   If you just ignore them, after a while, they
get bored with doing something that they get no pleasure from.
The best way to handle a person like that is to pretend that they
don't even exist.   Pretty soon, they realize that they will get
no entertainment from you, and try to bother someone else.

BTW, I hear that this procedure works well on gossips, too.

As far as my recent e-mail problems, I think I have them worked out.
Try the MAX address, and see if that works.   If not, let me know.

Friend Speaker-to-Minerals, I hear that you know something of
hyperdrive repair.   Would you have some information on the
repair of a HZQ-1000 hyperdrive space modulator handy?

*********************************************************************
John Dunkelburg, a.k.a. D'B'Naal, investigator of information
My life isn't a soap opera, it's ANIME!
"I only believe in my own power.   Nothing else makes any sense."
              Zakath of Mallorea
Fashion is for the sheep of the world.
Style is for individuals.   Which are you?
DUNK@max.u.washington.edu
*********************************************************************
From: eesshlgb@gdr.bath.ac.uk (S H L G Bisson)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: Rejoice, and Velvet reels
Date: 23 Nov 92 13:51:48 GMT
Organization: School of Electrical Engineering, University of Bath, UK

In the referenced article, maryb@cix.compulink.co.uk writes:
>Mary jumps up from Rowan's tea table. 
>"Robin Williamson who I just posted about. He's coing over to 
>America. Don't know where he's playing but if he's near you I can 
>heartily recommend the evening. Fun, funny and romatic. Great 
>combination."

A small head looks over from his overstuffed armchair, and grins at Mary.

"A definite seconding on seeing Robin Williamson. 

"He's a wonderful storyteller, in the classic celtic bardic tradition.
Music, stories, jokes, songs... It was a pity the evening had to end.

"Perhaps it was the atmosphere of the place, a small upper room in a Bath
pub, wooden benches, cold Guinness, good company: it reminded me of the 
Place.

"Just go and see him. You won't regret it..."

Ignatz raises his pint, smiles, and returns to listening to the hubub that
is a normal evening at Callahans.

---=-
Ignatz Mouse/Simon Bisson...9 miles from Hay-on-Wye, and I drove past.......
-=----
From: u906451@bruny.cc.utas.edu.au (Damien Saunders)
Subject: Re: SJ&TCS (Study Music)
Organization: University of Tasmania, Australia.
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 21:44:42 GMT

aaron@space.ualberta.ca (Aaron Humphrey) writes:

>Speaker-to-Minerals (lydick@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU) wrote:
>: From today's Herb Caen column:
>: 
>: "I just heard the sad news that Purves Pullen -- Horatio Q. Birdbath in the
>: unforgettable Spike Jones Band -- died at 83 last month in Vacaville, where
>: he lived for so many years at 777 Lovers Lane.  That leaves only two survivors
>: of the City Slickers -- drummer Joe Siracusa and Earl Bennett (Sir Frederick
>: Gas)....." 
>: 
>: StM reminisces, "Spike Jones & the City Slickers.  The only band I ever heard
>: of with members playing first and second pistol.  The band that brought us "The
>: Rites of Spring" ... gargled.  To one of the all-time great novelty bands!"
> 
>Alfvaen nods.  "I just started listening to some of Dr. Demento's collections
>of Novelty Records, and found out who Spike Jones was.  (I keep getting him
>mixed up with Spike Lee...;-})  I'm looking forward to getting more of his
>stuff."
My idea of Study music is either Loud and Heavy or slightly silly, so during
study time my music slips between Spike Jones or Tom Lehrer and Heavy Metal.

"It's Beetleboooomb."

Damien.
--
"Its a 106 mi to Chicago, we have a full tank of gas, 1/2 a pack of
cigarettes, its dark and we 're wearing sun glasses"
"Hit it" Blues Brothers Movie. Jake & Elwood.
Damien Saunders (Gunnar Njalsson SCA) Email:u906451@bruny.cc.utas.edu.au
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: maryb@cix.compulink.co.uk (Mary Branscombe)
Subject: Re: CD's Early Thanksgiving Ramblings
Reply-To: maryb@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 16:06:00 +0000


in reply to  Sean C. Malloy  -  Texas A&M University  -  scm@tamu.edu


Mary looks up at CD's entry and wanders over shyly.....
Would a hug help any? 

mary
apprentice potter

+-------------------------------------------+--------------------------+
| pending repairs.....                      |maryb@cix.compulink.co.uk |
|                                           |                          |
| under new management!                     |maryb@cix.compulink.uucp  |
+-------------------------------------------+--------------------------+
From: lydick@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Speaker-to-Minerals)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: A toast
Date: 17 Nov 1992 05:22:26 GMT
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
Distribution: world
Reply-To: lydick@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu

StM looks up from the copy of _Newsweek_ he's reading and asks DM, "Had you
heard about this?"  He walks to the bar, buys another shot of rye, and steps up
to the line.   "A toast," he says, "to the man who's probably got more
astronomical bodies named after him than anyone else except possibly Magellan:
Jan Oort, 1900-1992.  He died a couple of weeks ago."
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: mss2@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Michael S. Schiffer)
Subject: Re:  Science and god:  Are they incompatible?  If so, why?
Reply-To: mss2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 04:30:56 GMT

In article <1992Nov19.033314.13041@muddcs.claremont.edu> dgreen@jarthur.claremont.edu (David Green) writes:
>In article <1eefs2INN59v@gap.caltech.edu> lydick@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU writes:
>->In article <1992Nov18.203953.4479@muddcs.claremont.edu>, dgreen@jarthur.claremont.edu (David Green) writes:
>->=To answer a question with a question: How would an agnostic respond if I
>->=were to ask, "What do you believe about God?"

>->An agnostic would respond along the lines of "The question is ill-formed.  I
>->don't know whether or not god exists, so how can I possibly believe anything
>->about it?"

>*cough* What it looks like to me is that the person _believes_ that s/he cannot
>know whether God exists.  Unless you can point out to me how this differs
>significantly from what you just said?

	"Um... believes that s/he _does_ not know whether god exists,
whether or not said person thinks there exists some way of proving it.
Some agnostics believe the answer to be unknowable, others can imagine
particular tests which would move them to one category or another, and
still others can't come up with any test offhand but are willing to
grant the possibility that one exist.  Given the fact that some
agnostics become atheists and some become one or another form of
theist, obviously many find _some_ argument which satisfies them

	"Still, while I know that my agreeing with StM on an issue
touching upon religion will cause people to check for two-headed
cattle, dogs and cats living together, and other signs that the
natural order's given up and gone south for the winter, I have to
agree that including agnosticism in the category of `religion' seems a
stretch to me.  Like so many nouns, the term is fuzzy, but I think
`belief that concerns God' (even to the extent of whether He exists or
not) is overbroad.  For that matter, while I consider the strong form
of atheism ("I believe that I know there is no God") to be as much a
leap of faith as any religion, I wouldn't class that as a religion
either.  Words like philosophy, religion, faith, mysticism,
discipline, cult, ideology, and probably others I haven't thought of
describe sometimes overlapping classes but not identical ones.  (I do
not, however, propose to try to give firm definitions of the terms--
particularly since I think many important English words don't have
rigorous definitions.  For a prime example, see John Campbell's essay,
"What do you mean, _human_" and try to come up with a rigorous
definition of _that_ word which doesn't exclude entities that we would
normally consider human.  Or ask Snark what he's doing his Ph.D. work
on.  :-) )"

Michael
-- 
Michael S. Schiffer, LHN, FCS	"Indeed I tremble for my country
mss2@midway.uchicago.edu	 when I reflect that God is just."
mike.schiffer@um.cc.umich.edu	 -- Thomas Jefferson, Notes on
mschiffer@aal.itd.umich.edu	    Virginia (1784)
From: olson@husc8.harvard.edu (Chip Olson@somewhere.out.there)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: FOOD FIGHT !!! and new-comer...
Date: 16 Nov 92 04:32:41 GMT
Organization: Spam-On-A-Rope Inc.
In-reply-to: mwasson@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu's message of 16 Nov 92 02:10:49 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.021049.21573@news.Hawaii.Edu> mwasson@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Michael Wasson) writes:

>>"Will they stop fungus and dairy products?  Been hungering for a mushroom
>>and cheese amulet lately..."
>
>Gecko-boy meanders in.  He's been lurking just outside the doorway, 
>reptilian style, for some time now.
>
>"This place sure is occult above the rest. Mind is I sit down for
>a spell?"  [I know, that one's potion it...]

[other total stinker deleted in the interest of the public health and safety]

Castellan turns to the newcomer, to the extent he can with this enormous feline
sitting on him.  "My congrat... oof, excuse me a moment."  Wrestling one arm
free, he proceeds to tickle Thunderkat mercilessly on the belly, and scrambles 
out of the way as the furry beast bounds towards the ceiling.  Standing up and
dusting himself off with an air of exaggerated nonchalance, he sticks out his
hand to the reptilian one.  "As I was saying, congratulations, that was utter-
ly appalling.  Welcome!"

 
--
-Chip Olson. | olson@husc.harvard.edu | ceo@{gnu.ai,silver.lcs}.mit.edu 
"These are the days you might fill with laughter until you break. These days
you might feel a shaft of light make its way across your face... And when you 
do you'll know how it was meant to be..." -10,000 Maniacs, "These Are Days"
Newsgroups: alt.callahans