From: b645zaw@utarlg.uta.edu (General Sanction)
Subject: Re: Libertarian heaven
Summary: And we were doing so well...
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Keywords: compromise
Organization: The University of Texas at Arlington
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 23:16:00 GMT

In article <1993Jan9.022140.2173@pony.Ingres.COM>, 
garrett@Ingres.COM (WHEN ALL ELSE FAILS, READ THE INSTRUCTIONS) writes...

>In article <8JAN199319071167@utarlg.uta.edu>, 
b645zaw@utarlg.uta.edu (General Ledger) writes...

>>In article <1993Jan8.134646.18018@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, 
>>colten@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (marc.colten) writes...

>>>In article <7JAN199322151858@utarlg.uta.edu>, 
>>>b645zaw@utarlg.uta.edu (General Libertrix) writes:
> 
>>* Every American citizen deserves the right to vote without restriction. *
>>
>Although I have often found myself arguing in favor of liberalizing voting,
>even I can't favor 4 year olds voting. Perhaps if you said ever TAX PAYING
>American, I could support it.

Tax-payers, no problem easy compromise. If we're going to give kids
social security numbers, and they can read the ballot, or pull the 
lever to actually vote themselves -- why bother with any restriction
in voting? They might vote just like their parents, but then we can
say that for adults as well. 

>>Ok. As a "Perotian Prototype," We hereby declare Montana, a Libertarian
>>territory for the next 10 years. Those wanting to move in please make
>>arrangements with those wanting to move out. Reports and social monitoring 
>>will be required from everybody there. To be reviewed when the experiment 
>>is over.
>> 
>As a former resident of Montana, I can safely say that it doesn't get more
>Libertarian than Montana in the lower 48 (except, maybe Wyoming).
>	I'm not a Libertarian myself, but I do enjoy watching them stir
>up things. No one is better at it.

I'm x-libertarian (12 years ago) and definitely an anarchist. The L's
barely claim us. Marrou said, "nazis are to conservatives, as communist
are to liberals, and as are anarchist to libertarians" -- something
like that. Libertarians generally don't compromise in my experience 
though. (Marrou is a notable exception, if you talk with him directly.)

But yes, Montana or Wyoming or some such -- let's try it. Could it be
that the globalist and totalitarians are so uncertain of their own
ideologies to even allow such a trial?

>>>What has their age got to do with it.  A 12 year old with a gun
>>>can kill you just as easily as an adult.
>> 
>>"Can kill =you=" in the general sense of the dwellers in the center of
>>society who haven't learned to defend themselves. Or =you= in the sense
>>of those who would rather take a chance on being killed rather than
>>raise violence against children. There are other cases. 
> 
>What a stupid statement. Why do you think they call guns "the great 
>equalizer."

Tell that to those who fight wars out on the edge of society. A gun
is peanuts compared to what could be used to counter or protect against
it. And a child is no match for an "unrestricted" adult. 

I keep waiting for folks to recognize that "guns" are the "legal"
form of violence generally sanctioned by society. The alternatives,
like explosives, automated weaponry, and such -- negate any juvenile
efforts readily. I'm surprised we haven't put closed-loop tracking
systems in banks yet to lock on and "disable" anyone carrying a gun.
Ditto in schools.

Perhaps the center of society would rather live by their sanctioned 
methods, even when adopted by children, rather than simply do what
could be done -- according to the edge-dwellers. 

Speaking as an anarchist of course.