HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bhatt@src.honeywell.com (Devesh Bhatt)
Subject: Re: Physician's Incomes
Reply-To: bhatt@src.honeywell.com
Organization: Honeywell Systems & Research Center
	<92351.154021DGS4@psuvm.psu.edu> <1992Dec17.010815.18836@spdcc.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 22:59:29 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.010815.18836@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
Steve> Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Dec17.010815.18836

>>        2. $120K/year doesn't sound like all that much, considering
>>           the amount of training required.  It's not far off what
>>           airline pilots make, for example, or even good system
>>           administrators on Wall Street.  (Seriously!)

Steve> It's true.  It's fairly easy to make this much as a competent
Steve> computer person.  Sounds like sour grapes to me.

I consider myself a fairly competent computer person with 5 yrs college (3.9
GPA) + 5 yrs grad school + 12 yrs intensive industrial experience.  Please send
me names of employers who are willing to pay me $120K on a steady, relatively
mainstream computer science job.

Seriously, which world do you guys live in?  What percentage of the competent
computer professionals (with grad degrees) in USA are actually employed by the
Wall Street or by the high-paying hacker houses?  In fact, many of these
computer whiz-kids have no grad degrees and some may even be college dropouts
(remember Apple founders?).  The point is that you are talking about very
select sets of jobs and people.  These sets by no means represent the
mainstream computer engineers, scientists, and programmers.  When you are
comparing with average physicians, you should use average salaries in the
computer industry, which are in the $40K-$60K range for somebody with equal
amount of schooling/experience as a physician.  (IEEE publishes this
information annually---I can dig it out if you want specifics).  And I think
that these computer industry jobs are equally demanding (50+ hrs a week) as
those of normal physicians, and probably more stressful because of recent
downsizings and daily changes in the technology and business goals.  I have
several friends with MD wives that work less, have much less job stress, and
earn much more than their husbands.

It is not sour grapes, but a question of perennial demand and an AMA-regulated
supply.  In a market-driven society, you have all the right to enjoy this
privilege---I would have too, had I chosen the medical line.  But please don't
try to justify it on other grounds.

Devesh Bhatt.
From: levin@bbn.com (Joel B Levin)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Uncontrollable Laughter
Date: 17 Dec 92 18:49:34 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com

In <132@ky3b.UUCP> km@ky3b (Ken Mitchum) says:
>In article <1992Dec9.224029.20660@netcom.com> lindae@netcom.com writes:
>>I guess my question is two-fold.  Has anyone ever experienced this and
>>if so, how have you managed to get it under control?
>
>1)Usually while reading sci.med.

Come on, Ken, the question was about INAPPROPRIATE laughter.

>2)Going out and seeing some patients usually solves it.

	/JBL
=
Nets: levin@bbn.com  |  "There were sweetheart roses on Yancey Wilmerding's
POTS: (617)873-3463  |  bureau that morning.  Wide-eyed and distraught, she
              N1MNF  |  stood with all her faculties rooted to the floor."
                     |					-- S. J. Perelman
From: nancy@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Nancy Lebovitz)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Peter Breggin, _Toxic Psychiatry_ (Q)
Date: 17 Dec 92 00:10:57 GMT
Organization: UDel, School of Life & Health Sciences

In article <24417@alice.att.com> ark@alice.UUCP () writes:
>In article <1992Dec15.155632.21024@athena.mit.edu> jgnassi@athena.mit.edu (John Angelo Gnassi) writes:
>
>> If a patient with a psychiatric disorder is lucid, evidences
>> understanding of the situation, is not in immediate danger of harming
>> self or others, they can walk out AMA - Against Medical Advice.
>
>Does anyone else remember the article written by the journalist who
>walked into a hospital one day, claiming to hear voices, with the
>intent of seeing what happened and writing about it?
>
>He told the doctor(s) that he heard voices in his head saying things
>like `Thud.' in a normal tone of voice.  Any other questions he answered
>truthfully.  After a while he said the voices had stopped.  At no time
>did he do anything to suggest that he might harm himself or others.
>
>What he found:
>
>	Even though he continued to behave as a journalist,
>	and would have admitted what he was doing had anyone
>	asked, no one did.  They did make notations in his
>	records, though, saying things like `Patient engages
>	in writing behavior.'
>
>	He had a very hard time getting out.  Indeed, if I remember
>	correctly, the only reason he was let out at all was that
>	before going in, he made sure several other people knew
>	what he was up to so that he could bring them in to testify
>	on his behalf.
>
>This may, of course, be an isolated incident.  Can someone point me at
>the article?

I think it's described in Watslavik's _How Real Is Real?_, but I don't
have my copy handy. As I recall, there are some other good details....
The journalist took notes while he was in the institution, and the
doctors described him as "exhibiting writing behavior". None of the
staff recognized the journalist as sane, but the patients did.

Nancy Lebovitz
nancy@genie.slhs.udel.edu
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: robert@unlv.edu (Robert Cray)
Subject: Strep Throat
Originator: robert@peewee.cs.unlv.edu
Organization: University of Nevada, Las Vegas
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 22:27:59 GMT

How can you tell the diference between a bad cold and strep throat?
I've been told that strep needs to be treated lest it damage the heart,
however I feel rather foolish showing up at the doctors office with what
is in all probability a cold.  Does strep really need to be treated, or is
the heart thing a rare occurance?

				--robert
--
robert@cs.unlv.edu
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: earl@well.sf.ca.us (Earl C. Vickers)
Subject: Re: Grateful Med
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 21:28:24 GMT


I believe you can order Grateful Med from the National Technical
Information Service at (703)487-4807, or write
US Dept. of Commerce
National Technical Information Service
5285 Port Royal Road
Springfield, VA 22161
I like the program a lot. I have the mac version, which I think was
around $25 and included a good amount of free access time. Grateful
Med gives you access to Medline, Toxnet, Chemline, and lots of other
National Library of Medicine databases. I think they can also be
accessed without using this program, but the command line syntax
is a bit ugly.
From: remmons@iat.holonet.net (Robert Emmons)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Seeking Neuro Surgeon NYC/NJ
Date: 15 Dec 92 03:13:47 GMT
Organization: HoloNet National Internet Access BBS: 510-704-1058/modem

I am seeking a good neuro-surgeon in the New York City / New Jersey 
area. The problem is an acoustic neuroma (my spelling could be off). In
laymen's terms it is a likely benign tumor, inside the skull, outside 
the brain, near the left ear.
 
Please send any suggestions to me ASAP at: remmons@holonet.net
 
Thanks much from Bob.
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: sue@netcom.com (Sue Miller)
Subject: Re: Physician's Incomes
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 06:01:38 GMT

In article <BzL3Lu.7HL@acsu.buffalo.edu> oispeggy@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Peggy Brown) writes:
>In article <1992Dec20.185926.10508@netcom.com>, sue@netcom.com (Sue Miller) writes...
>> 
>> Peggy sez:
>>>>>Since you seem to have misunderstood my point, I'll repeat it.
>>>>>I do not favor civil-service type systems (sometimes called 
>>>>>socialized medicine).  Whether other countries have systems like 
>>>>>this I do not know.  However, I would beware of any system that 
>>>>>did not reward doctors (or anyone else) for working extra hard,
>>>>>or a system that did not give them opportunity, to reach their 
>>>>>full potential.
>>>>>
>>>> 
>> 
>>I sez:
>>>>But this statement of yours is just a straw man, since you seem to
>>>>know next to nothing about any health care system anywhere.  Why
>>>>are you making it?
>>>
>> 
>>Peggy astutely replies:
>>>Ever hear of free enterprise?  The concepts involved can be 
>>>applied to any industry/profession.
>>>
>> 
>>No Peggy, never heard of free enterprise.  In fact, I never went
>>to school, have never held a job, and I found this sparcstation in a 
>>dumpster.  I was so lucky to be able to get it to work!  So yes,
>>I *certainly* believe you when you say it's all Just That Simple.
>> 
>>Now I must go find some televangelists to give my money to.
>> 
>
>Might as well, if you don't have an alternative view worth
>expressing.
>

Alternative to *what*???

Newsgroups: sci.med
From: graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu (JIM GRAHAM)
Subject: Preventing spread of late-term RSD
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4   
Reply-To: graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu
Organization: Somewhere in Bloomington, Indiana
Distribution:  world
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 04:54:52 GMT

Suppose that someone has an advanced case of Reflex Sypathetic Dystrophy,
but it is fortunately still limited to one limb, say, the leg.

Now, suppose that the RSD is measurably "spreading" (ie creeping upward).

Also, assume that it presently "stops" about 6.5 to 7 inches
below the knee.

Finally, assume that all "standard" forms of treatment and therapy have
been exhausted, such as nerve blocks, surgical sympathectomy, physical
therapy, etc., and are no longer effective.

Would it be a safe bet to say that amputation of the leg, say 5-6
inches below the knee would stop it from spreading further?

Thanks for any info and opinions.

Jim Graham 

        -> ->Disclaimer: I do not speak for my company. <- <-
                          Neither do they speak for me.
 ______________________________________________________________________
| Internet: graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu                              |
|           dolmen!jgraham@moose.cs.indiana.edu                        |
| BBS:      The PORTAL DOLMEN BBS/ParaNet ALPHA-GAMMA (sm) (9:1012/13) |
|            (812) 334-0418, 24hrs.                                    |
|______________________________________________________________________|
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: markn@ssd.comm.mot.com (Mark Nowak)
Subject: Re: female condom availability?
Organization: Motorola LMPS
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 08:57:52 GMT
Keywords: n

In article <71461@cup.portal.com> amigan@cup.portal.com (Mike - Medwid) writes:
>Only today did an FDA advisory panel give its qualified recommendation
>that the female condom be approved for sale in the US.  The company
>(Wisconsin something) claims a 12.5% failure (pregnancies in a 
>year) whle the panel felt it was likely higher.  The panel also felt
>it was not as effective as male condoms in the prevention of STDs.  
>The company claims a 5% failure rate if the device is used correctly.
>Choose who you believe I guess.  The company spokewoman said their
>testing was more stringent than others in that the average participant
>in its trials had sex 14 time/month.  Which I guess is a lot for
>folks in that kind of study.  

I heard on the news today that the failure rate was as high as 25%.
They're trying to get the FDA to approve sales of it with a warning
label on it anyway.
-- 
Mark Nowak                          | By means of the easy and the simple we
SWM, 25, 5'11", seeking SF ...      | grasp the laws of the whole world.  When
Chicago, Illinois                   | the laws of the whole world are grasped,
INTERNET: markn@ssd.comm.mot.com    | therein lies perfection. - I Ching
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: mdkline@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Mark D. Kline)
Subject: Re: Peter Breggin, _Toxic Psychiatry_ (Q)
Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 09:16:55 EST

In article <1992Dec14.125341.3541@nntp.hut.fi> t35123n@taltta.hut.fi (Yoghurt (Tapio Vorlund)) writes:
>In article <1992Dec11.014655.2269@ucbeh.san.uc.edu> egf48542@ucbeh.san.uc.edu writes:
>     Do the neurolepts repair the loss of brain tissue or is
>it permanent ? I guess that if the loss of brain tissue is due to
>loss of neurons, it will be permanent.

Neuroleptic (antipsychotic) drugs do not repair the loss of brain tissue.

>     Does the use of neurolepts stop the loss of brain tissue or
>do brains continue to "shrink" even if the patient has no positive
>symptoms like hallucinations ? Do neurolepts only help with the
>symptoms and not the disease ?

In schizophrenia, brain tissue loss (that is, cortical atrophy and
passive ventricular dilatation) appears to be more correlated with
so-called "negative" symptoms, such as apathy, loss of motivation,
and so on, rather than florid "positive" symptoms, such as hallucinations
and delusions.  

>     What are the newest predictions for patients diagnosed with
>schitzophrenia. I have read some books and they were very pessimistic.
>Even if the patient uses his medications he will propably not
>be capable to work and live a normal life. And even if he will,
>his capabilities will be in a "lower level". Is this old information ?

Schizophrenia is a truly malignant disorder.  Complete recoveries from
the disease have been recorded at every phase of illness; they are rare,
but there is hope.  New "atypical" antipsychotic drugs such as clozapine
can be remarkably effective for patients who are utterly unimproved by
older medications.  For the majority of patients, at least some 
disability is the rule, rather than the exception.  Disability can be
minimized with good psychosocial care and skillful psychopharmacologic
management which can prevent or reduce relapses into acute psychosis.


================================================================= 
mark kline                              mdkline@rodan.acs.syr.edu
suny health science center, syracuse    voice: (315) 422-1050
================ courtesy of syracuse university ================
From: levin@bbn.com (Joel B Levin)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Peter Breggin, _Toxic Psychiatry_ (Q)
Date: 17 Dec 92 20:21:35 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com

In <BzF0M1.1qE@unx.sas.com>  sasghm@theseus.unx.sas.com (Gary Merrill) says:
|Ah, Mr. Dyer seems finally to have been prodded into an attempt at
|dealing with substantive issues.
|In article <1992Dec17.032545.22504@spdcc.com>, dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:

|Give me a clear explication of "disease" then.  I have, of course,
|been focusing on the germ theory.  This is in general a bit too
|narrow.  

Yes, just a bit.

|	  So what do *you* suggest?  What *are* the appropriate
|criteria for classifying something as a disease?
|
||> Nonsense.  You don't even have the faintest idea of what a "disease" is,
||> let alone a "disease model".  How do you expect to argue against it?
|
|Provide one then.

Yes, Steve, how about a first year med school course (within the space
of an eighty line posting if possible)?

||> Dyer's Law: The pomposity of a USENET posting is inversely proportional
||> to the knowledge and experience of its author.  Anyone care to try for
||> a corollary?
|
|Now you're regressing to your previous behavior.  And you were doing
|so well!
 . . .
||> >By the way, I don't mind your considering me ignorant.
||> 
||> "...Patient seems more in contact with reality in this last paragraph
||> than in previous days..."
|
|Everyone gets viewed as a patient?  Or just the people who don't agree
|with you?

Proposed corollary:
  The ability of a Usenet poster to detect sarcasm or wit is directly
  proportional to that poster's knowledge and experience.

	/J
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: sasghm@theseus.unx.sas.com (Gary Merrill)
Subject: Re: Peter Breggin, _Toxic Psychiatry_ (Q)
Originator: sasghm@theseus.unx.sas.com
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 19:22:51 GMT
Organization: SAS Institute Inc.


In article <1992Dec17.224442.26486@microsoft.com>, siobhan@microsoft.com (Siobhan Harper) writes:
|> 
|> Your point about antibiotics is not as obvious as it appears, though--
|> can antibiotics be said to "work" if a person doesn't trust Western
|> medicine and therefore does not go to a doctor, or if the person starts
|> the medication and gives it up upon feeling better, rather than con-
|> tinuing it through the course of the medication? Certainly the bio-
|> chemical aspect of the antibiotic has not changed, yet the treatment
|> is not working like you would expect, either.
|> 

But the treatment is working *just* as expected.  I have the same problem
with a teenage son (who believes, apparently, that he is immortal).  He
takes an antibiotic for a few days and then "forgets" the rest of the
course.  Result?  Obvious.  [Recently he has been convinced that there
*is* a causal connection between this behavior and recurrence of symptoms.]

Of course this is why the doctor and the label on the drug are explicit
about *finishing* the course.  Obviously, if a person does not go to
a doctor, he won't be treated.  Obviously, if he does not follow the
prescribed treatment, it will not succeed.  Yet in both these cases
the treatment has not in fact been applied.
-- 
Gary H. Merrill  [Principal Systems Developer, C Compiler Development]
SAS Institute Inc. / SAS Campus Dr. / Cary, NC  27513 / (919) 677-8000
sasghm@theseus.unx.sas.com ... !mcnc!sas!sasghm
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: ramamani@engr.UVic.CA (Subramanian  Ramamani)
Subject: Help!
Reply-To: ramamani@engr.UVic.CA
Organization: University of Victoria, Victoria, BC, Canada
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 05:11:50 GMT



	The following are the symptoms experienced by a man. Has any one of
	you heard of such a problem? Any comments will be appreciated.
	Also, is this fibromyalgia?

	Skin dryness, visual disturbances (like diplopia), stuffy nose,
	occasional depression, patchy sores on tounge, tingling, twitching,
	and nervous irritability.

	Nervous irritability: All the above symptoms subside and exacerbate
	over a week's time. They are sensitive to things like vitamins,
	coffee, egg, etc. The symptoms improve temporarily with those things
	but relapses occur in a few days despite being on them.

	ramamani@sirius.uvic.ca

Xref: sparky sci.med:22841 rec.pets.birds:3003
From: kja@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (krista.j.anderson)
Newsgroups: sci.med,rec.pets.birds
Subject: Re: Birds:  allergies and other diseases
Date: 18 Dec 92 22:26:05 GMT
Followup-To: sci.med
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Dec18.191120.9637@netcom.com>, noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring) writes:
> Based on a couple prior posts, you might be beginning to realize that I have
> not been totally well.  I definitely have a chronic low level bacterial
> infection, general rhinitis, and possibly (still not totally confirmed), a
> low-level fungal infection in my sinuses as well.

You have my sympathy.

> Anyway, we have two birds in our house, a female plum-headed parrakeet (yes,
> the spelling here of 'parrakeet' is correct), as well as a Moustached
> parrakeet.  What I'd like to know is if it is possible, in addition to classic
> allergy, for my sinus problems to be caused/aggravated by our birds?  I
> specifically refer to the nasal analog of "birdkeeper's lung", which is an
> unusual reaction to certain molds the birds carry (that's what I gather from
> a Jan. 92 issue of 'Bird Talk').  It seems to be a reaction that is different
> than just plain allergy, possibly a fungal infection.
> 
> And with regards to allergy, if it is the cause of my 'challenges', it is low
> level, since during the times that I play with the birds, or clean their area,
> I don't notice any increase in inhalent allergy symptoms such as sneezing, etc.
> I am also at my maintenance dose for allergy desensitization injections.

I don't know if the birds can cause any other problems that you
mentioned, but I just wanted to note that it seems like I am able
to build up a "desensitization" when I'm exposed to an allergen all
the time.  For example, I had a lot of sinus problems when we first
got a guinea pig, but after a day or two I was ok.  But if I go on
vacation and then come back, the first day or two in the house I
suffer.

I could see where it might make sense that a person's body can only
make so many mast cells and so much antibody so that once they are
used up, if there's continued exposure, there aren't enough built
up to a level where a noticeable reaction is possible.  And yet,
there has to be some demand on the body to keep the immune system
mobilized, trying to keep up.  In me, I think I get fatigued from
my allergies even if they aren't bothering me at a more acute level.

In your case, if you are fatigued and otherwise stressed, it could
leave you more susceptible to infections.
-- 
Krista Anderson, krista@ihlpf.att.com  or  ihlpf!krista@att.att.com
I don't want to be here; I want to be in an Agatha Christie novel,
or in a musical, like Mary Poppins.
From: russ@wpg.com (Russell Lawrence)
Subject: Re: Info sought on TMJ
Organization: WP Group
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 23:20:59 GMT

From article <1992Dec20.154447.2955@cnsvax.uwec.edu>, by nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu (David Nye):
> [reply to heine@casbah.acns.nwu.edu]
>  
> Look for someone, either a dentist, or better yet, an oral surgeon, who has
> special expertise in TMJ and go see them.  There is little you can do on your
> own for this, and it may get worse if neglected.  The problem is a combination
> of joint derangement and tightness of the temporalis muscle that closes the
> jaw.  It often is triggered by gritting the teeth at night (bruxism).  An
> interocclusal splint worn at night often does wonders for the problem.
> Sometimes anti-inflamatory meds or muscle relaxants are needed.  Occasionally
> surgery is necessary.
> 
> David Nye
> nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu

One brief comment:   Oral surgery is the path of last resort.  The
history of TMJ surgery is fraught with failures.  As evidence, I'd
point to recent congressional hearings that focused on the Vytek
Company of Houston, Texas, a manufacturer of alloplastic joint implants.

According to Dr. Joseph Marbach, an authority on TMJS, the best remedy
for 80-90% of TMJ sufferers is non-invasive:

   1) temporarily avoiding hard and chewy foods
   2) applying moist heat to the facial area
   3) stretching and exercising the jaw muscles

References on request.

-- 
Russell Lawrence, WP Group, New Orleans (504) 443-5000
russ@wpg.com   uunet!wpg!russ
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Re: Peter Breggin, _Toxic Psychiatry_ (Q)
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 23:53:21 GMT

In article <1992Dec11.014655.2269@ucbeh.san.uc.edu> egf48542@ucbeh.san.uc.edu writes:
>    Let's make a deal.  I won't make ludicrous, absurd statements about the
>SAS programming language-something I know nothing about-if you stop making
>ludicrous, absurd statements about psychiatric treatment-something you
>know absolutely, positively NOTHING about. 

Thanks, Ed.  He's a C compiler expert--maybe Dennis Ritchie could
send him some stealth e-mail. :-)

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Xref: sparky sci.med:22657 sci.med.nutrition:1609