HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: HODGSONT@QUCDN.QueensU.CA (Jake Hodgson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Night vision equipment
Date: 26 Sep 92 15:38:56 GMT
Organization: Queens University at Kingston


 
#  US Cavalry has some good stuff here.
 
#  Soviet made night scopes ($900 and a grand) depending on model
 
Just an adenda... a chum of mine got to try out the Soviet scopes while
in Berlin last month.  He said that he was painfully disapointed
in them.  He could barely pick out people (only if he new where to look)
and said that under the conditions of light he was testing them he
figured a top quality optical scope would have provided better night
vision.  But, as they say in farm country...
 your silage may vary.
 
                                               Warm Hearth!
                                                     Jake
 
Jake Hodgson____________________________________________________________
HODGSONT@QUCDN.QUEENSU.CA               |  All skill is in vain when
Disclaimer: It must be my doing because |  an angel pisses in the
            THIS bunch won't take       |  touchhole of your musket.
            responsibility for ANYTHING |  -old German proverb
From: gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Sight picture and eyes
Date: 4 Oct 92 02:27:06 GMT
Organization: U.S. Army Ballistic Research Lab, APG MD.


In article <9210020511.AA07933@hpfcpp.fc.hp.com> davep@hpfcpp.fc.hp.com (David Post) writes:
#I'm not so sure what I am observing is abnormal, but something has changed.

Not too long ago I had a similar experience.  My optometrist thinks
all that happened was that a general shift of vision reached a
critical threshold at which it seemed qualitatively different; he
outfit me with new glasses (bifocals, alas) and my eyes seem to
work normally again.  Very likely you need (new) glasses..
From: C08926RC@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu (Rob)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: RE: Astra vs Witness
Date: 6 Oct 92 19:39:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: mimsy.9210061225.AA09837

A few weeks ago I sent a post out asking for opinions on the Astra
A-100 and the EAA Witness.  I then changed course and decided to get
a .44 Magnum.

Well, last week the local news had a story and they showed an NRA
home protection class.  My wife (who showed no interest in my hobby
before) said she'd like to take the class.  I mentioned, half in
jest, that we'll have to buy her a gun.

A few days later I had a gun magazine out.  My wife pointed to the
cover and said, "That's not a bad looking gun."  She was pointing
to a Sig P228.

Since I can't afford a Sig right now, it looks like I may be
buying the Astra....

Hmmm, my wedding anniversary is this saturday.  I could...nah,
better not.

BTW, I know 25 year anniversary is silver.  What's the 5 year
anniversary?  I know it's not guns...8-)

Rob
C08926RC@WUVMD
From: upchrch!joel@peora.sdc.ccur.com (Joel Upchurch  )
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .40 S&W Help Sought
Date: 1 Oct 92 13:04:34 GMT
Organization: Upchurch Computer Consulting, Orlando FL

wa4mei!ke4zv!gary@gatech.edu (Gary Coffman) writes:

# Since the Glock system gives you, in practice, the exact same safety
# as a transfer bar equipped revolver, and most people have little concern
# about holster carrying loaded revolvers, I fail to see the issue. *If*
# you are terrified of carrying a loaded revolver, *then* I can see that
# the Glock is not for you.

What you should be saying is "in theory", instead of "in practice". In
practice, units moving from DA revolvers to Glocks experience an
increase in their accidental discharge rate. The important difference is
that a DA revolver has a 10-12 pound trigger pull, while a Glock has
a 5 or 7 pound pull. While it would make no difference if people would
keep their fingers off the triggers until they intend to shoot, in the
real world a certain percentage of people will do it and more of them
will have accidental discharges with a Glock than a DA revolver.

I like the way Massad Ayoob said it when he said that ergonomically
speaking that the Glock is a Cocked and Unlocked single action pistol.

(If your mail bounces use the address below.)
Joel Upchurch/Upchurch Computer Consulting/718 Galsworthy/Orlando, FL 32809
joel@peora.ccur.com {uiucuxc,hoptoad,petsd,ucf-cs}!peora!joel (407) 859-0982
From: fiddler@concertina.Eng.Sun.COM (steve hix)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 9mm: Which *not* to buy?
Date: 30 Sep 92 23:13:44 GMT
Article-I.D.: appserv.9209301743.AA26778
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.

In article <1992Sep29.020139.25245@henson.cc.wwu.edu> n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio) writes:

##Browning BDM
#	Funny looking.

Ththtffpt! Prettiest semi-auto on the market.

So there!  :}

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of making many books there is no end...  |  What's wrong with chasing 
                       -- Eccl. 12:12    |  nebulae till 3 am?  |-(
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: First Gun Suggestions?
Date: 4 Oct 92 02:27:01 GMT
Organization: U.S. Army Ballistic Research Lab, APG MD.


In article <9209302105.AA14472@spsgate.sps.mot.com> rigg@ssdt-tempe.sps.mot.com (Dana Rigg) writes:
#There is no reason what-so-ever to attempt to fire a weapon this way. ...
#The only purpose of this 'stunt' is to satisfy one's curiosity.

Jeff Cooper performs this demo on a video tape aimed at novice handgun
users.  It has one very beneficial effect, namely to ally novice fears
about recoil; many people have heard silly stories about recoil and it
is useful to straighten them out.  As the fellow says, if you're
concerned about dropping the gun then load just one round for the demo.

It's not at all the same as sticking one's finger into a light socket
to see what happens.
From: hes@ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: max. cartridge gauge sale
Date: 2 Oct 92 11:38:54 GMT
Organization: North Carolina State University


  Max cartridge gauges are a very easy, very good way to check
ammo, especially handloaded ammo.  The trouble is that they are
kind of expensive.

  I was startled to see how inexpensive the handgun max
cartridge gauges are on the special sale page of the Oct. Midway
catalog.  They are $6.95 each, and in a set of 6 (their semi-auto
set or their revolver set) only $19.95.  Wow!  (I wish I needed
some.)

  Calibers: .380 auto, 9mm Luger, 38 Spl, .357 Mag, 38 Super
40S&W, 10mm, .41 Mag., .44 Spl, .44 Mag, .45 Auto, .45 Long Colt.

--henry schaffer  n c state univ
From: otto@meaddata.com (Otto Burgess)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Want to shoot clays
Date: 6 Oct 92 19:39:45 GMT
Article-I.D.: meaddata.1992Oct6.144731.11691
Organization: Mead Data Central, Dayton OH

I am interested in shooting clays / trapshooting.  I need advice on a gun to do this
with - pump, auto, over & under - brand - model - gauge?  I can spend maybe $500 to get
a starting gun.  Please e-mail me with suggestions, thanks.

-- 
|Otto Burgess
|(513) 865 - 1024    
|Mead Data Central   
|P.O. Box 933        
|Dayton, Ohio  45401 
| 
|otto@meaddata.com
From: mcrware!!troyf@uunet.UU.NET (Troy Frericks)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Are there restrictions on carry in public places
Date: 1 Oct 92 13:04:09 GMT
Organization: Microware Systems Corp., Des Moines, Iowa

Laws are different in different.  If I were issued a permit
to carry, I would be sure that I was aware of ALL laws
regarding carrying a weapon - esp. where I can and cannot
carry!  Check with your local law enforcement agency for
classes.  It's your duty to be informed.        

Troy Frericks
troyf@microware.com
From: damiel@netcom.com (Paul Theodoropoulos)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .40 S&W Help Sought
Date: 1 Oct 92 23:30:16 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

In <9210010048.AA05642@phoenix.Princeton.EDU> rnoguchi@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Ryan Alexander Noguchi) writes:
#I've seen a S&W snubbie "fire" (empty) from DA position when returned
#to its inside-the-pant holster.  The finger was *off* the trigger and
#the trigger caught on the hard lip of the body side of the top of the
#holster.  And it had a respectable trigger pull.  I don't recall the
#make of the holster; this was many years ago.  If this can happen with a
#heavy (say, 10 lb) trigger, surely it makes sense that it's more
#(perhaps just slightly more) likely with a lighter pull.  

not necessarily. remember, the Glock has that automatic trigger safety.
unless it is fully engaged, the trigger can't be pulled. about the only
thing that will adequately engage the trigger safety is a finger.

try it sometime with an unloaded Glock. try "catching" the trigger on various
surfaces/objects. You would have to have a holster with an exposed rod at
just the right angle to engage the trigger to initiate a negligent discharge
with a Glock.

quite simply, i'd like to see some stats on reholstering ND's.

#Also, under extreme duress, one's training may fail him and he may
#reholster his weapon with his finger on the trigger. While this can be
#minimized by lengthy training until it becomes two levels beyond
#conscious thought, it certainly isn't certain.   Everyone reacts
#somewhat differently to the stress of a firefight.  

and under extreme duress, is one any more likely to sweep an external 
affirmative safety back on before reholstering? 


i would submit that the Glock has three internal, automatic safeties 
that preclude _accidental_ discharges. An external affirmative safety
might reduce _negligent_ discharges, but then again, it might not.

A person is equally capable of negligently shooting him/herself in the 
foot with a S&W 686, a Colt Delta Elite, or a Glock.

Some of this discussion has the elements and style of the Gun Control 
arguments:

If any state has a possibility of obtaining, then that state *will* obtain.

I disagree.


-- 
paul theodoropoulos     damiel@netcom.com     (hooools@well.sf.ca.us)
       Cosysop - Threat Management Institute BBS 707 935 1713
From: ace@blackhl.hacktic.nl (todd simpson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: inclusion of manufacterers
Date: 6 Oct 92 01:03:19 GMT
Organization: The Black Hole HIN.BBS, Utrecht Netherlands


    I've been following this newsgroup for only a few weeks now but in 
that time I've noticed something lacking, where are the manufacterers and 
dealers?
    What I mean by that is that in my opinion this would be a perfect 
forum for the manufacterers and dealers to release information 
concearning new or existing products.
    It would only cost them the price of membership to a news searver 
(compare that to the cost of advertising let alone world-wide 
advertising!). In addition it would provide them with potentially 
valuable suggestions for new products or improvements to existing ones 
(who better to suggest new products and improvements than  your 
customers).
    In return we are provided with a way to voice our opinions, 
questions, or complaints and (hopefully) have them answered in an timely 
manner.
    What does everyone think? If you find it a good idea, drop a line to 
your favorite dealer or manufacterer and suggest it to them.

    Just my opinion...Thanks

      Todd

| todd simpson (ace@blackhl.hacktic.nl)
| BBS The Black Hole : +31-30-940197
From: cbl@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu (Chris Luchini)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Silencer questions
Date: 2 Oct 92 11:39:02 GMT
Organization: High Energy Physics, University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign

In article <1992Oct1.230800.17665@nntp.hut.fi>, mjalava@lk-hp-21.hut.fi (Mika Matti Jalava) writes:
#In article <1992Oct1.043422.20389@netcom.com> geo@netcom.com (George Pontis) writes:
#(I said the first shot through a silencer is louder than others)
##I could be your hearing that's changing ! There is a mechanism in one's
##ear that can temporarily reduce the ear's sensitivity to protect it against
##loud noises. 
#
#Yes, that would work for a gun WITHOUT a silencer. With one, there is
#so little noise that it CAN'T affect hearing. If you shoot in the
#open, and especially with slow cartridges, even the first shot is VERY
#quiet. Not a bang, rather like "pffft" or "thud". But still you hear
#the difference.

	The first shot is louder because the can is filled with
	air, and the hot gasses continue to burn. The subsequent
	shots are quieter because the suppressor is full of CO2, etc.
[long digression: Gunpowders are not O2 balanced, there is more 
fuel than oxidizer for the same reason that you don't run your
car engine fully lean, ie the extra very hot O2 will react with
the metal of the cylinder walls/the rifle barrel. Hence, when the
hot fuel-rich gasses hit the outside air, they continue to burn with the
atmospheric O2. ]
	Special forces types fill the suppressors with nitrogen to
	minimize this problem.


#
#	Mika
#
#
#
*1110 W. Green/Urbana IL 61801/217-333-0505/cbl@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu 
Xref: sparky rec.guns:13502 talk.politics.guns:21533
From: btree!hale@UCSD.EDU (Bob Hale)
Newsgroups: rec.guns,talk.politics.guns
Subject: California gun laws
Date: 28 Sep 92 19:39:45 GMT
Followup-To: talk.politics.guns
Organization: Brooktree Corporation

This will be of special interest to California firearms enthusiasts
but may be of interest to many other rec.guns readers.

An article in Gun Week of September 18, 1992, discusses one of the
issues facing California gun owners and would-be gun owners.  A bit
of history will make the paragraph quoted below more meaningful to
those outside of the state: Assemblyman Rusty Areias sponsored a bill
which requires that a handgun buyer take a safety course or provide
some other form of proof of gun competence (such as a hunting license)
before a handgun could be sold to the buyer.  This bill was passed into
law by the state legislature.  Now for the latest developments:

"Meanwhile, Lundgren [the state Attorney General] has sent a letter
to Assemblyman Rusty Areias telling him that there was no budgetary
appropriation to allow funding of mandatory safety training for
prospective handgun buyers.  Lundgren recommended that Areias move
for repeal of the law he had sponsored which would require the
safety training after July 1, 1993.  If the law is not repealed by
then, people who are not otherwise exempted would be unable to
purchase handguns since they would be required to take a safety
course which did not exist."

Discussions to talk.politics.guns; note the followups line.
	[MODERATOR: Indeed!]

Bob Hale                                      ...!ucsd!btree!hale
...!btree!hale@ucsd.edu                       ...!ucsd!btree!hale@uunet.uu.net
From: mattw@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Matt Ward)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Steyr 1897  and  Remmington 514  (help)
Date: 30 Sep 92 01:57:25 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

I have aquired a Steyr rifle that I need some info about.
This is what is stamped on the gun.

Steyr 1897

4753H
  LW

I need to know what caliber and approx. value.

The second rifle in question is a Remmington 514 .22 single
shot bolt action with craftsmans initials P.W.W. and serial
number 4,  this gun is in average condition.  What is its
approx. value?  

Thanks in advance.


-- 
			Matt Ward
			mattw@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu
			University of Illinios
			Department of CCSO
From: deh@rocket.com (Dale E. Higgs)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: sniper rifle in 'Navy seals' movie?
Date: 6 Oct 92 19:40:38 GMT
Article-I.D.: asgaard.9210061723.AA21355
Organization: Rocket Research Company, Redmond WA

In article <00961A5F.D5FDE540.15543@WKUVX1.BITNET> Nathan Futrell writes:
#
#Barret Light Fifty in .50cal with a night site.  I have heard that the
#.50 cal round has a straight, stable trajectory of 1000 yds or more.
#I don't if that is true or not.
#

An old Army buddy I served with about 10 years ago was a Ranger in SEA. 
He claimed that his team mounted a scope on an M-2 and regularly ruined
nasties' days out to 1500 meters.  One round at a time.  I have no idea how
they kept the scope from being battered to smithereens.  Please apply your
own BS factor.
From: smpod@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov (Stefan)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Proper Shooting Technique
Date: 6 Oct 92 19:40:03 GMT
Article-I.D.: ariel.6OCT199212141148
Organization: who knows

ras@fred.niaid.pc.niaid.nih.gov (Randy Stevens) writes...
# 
# 
#     I need help on refining my shooting skills!!!
# 
#     I am interested in learning about the proper breathing technique to use 
#when firing a rifle.  In other words, when do you pull the trigger-- when 
#the lungs are full, partially empty, or empty??  Although I shoot/hunt 
#alot, I have never learned the right way to breathe when shooting. 


Most books on marksmanship, recommend pulling the trigger during the natural
pause after exhalation.  If you don't pull the trigger within 5-10 secs, try 
again.
From: mjalava@lk-hp-21.hut.fi (Mika Matti Jalava)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Silencer questions
Date: 30 Sep 92 16:41:50 GMT
Article-I.D.: nntp.1992Sep30.154641.16213
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology

In article <1992Sep29.123738.478@email.tuwien.ac.at> robert@cuba.vlsivie.tuwien.ac.at (Robert Glock) writes:

#- How much of the bang do they _really_ suppress (I don't think movies
#  are good reference 8-) )? Could you compare the resulting noise
#  to some everyday noise?

It heavily depends on the silencer, the gun and the cartridge used. I
have a silencer for my Unique DES 69 .22 lr pistol (so that it doesn't
disturb the neighbors at our summer place). The thing is 30 mm thick,
about 18 cm long and weighs something like 130 g.

If I shoot low velocity cartridges, the sound is like slamming a
rolled newspaper against a table. Not too loud, you could well shoot
indoors.

The weird thing is that the first shot is always much louder than
subsequent ones. The sound described above was the one made by the
first one, the latter ones are like like clapping your hands together.
Maybe this has something to do with hot gases left in the tube after
the shot.

#- Do silencers affect the accuracy of the gun?

Not to my experience.

#- Do silencers wear out through repeated use?

Not in .22's at least. Mine is made of a aluminium tube, inside it
there are four "cups" made out of nylon. The "cups" are somewhat
funnel-shaped, the bullet goes through a hole in the center, but the
gases behind it are driven outwards and back.

-------------
 	    /
	--/
 ---->bullet
        --\
	   \
-------------


The nylon doesn't seem to wear at all, you just shake the powder
residue out of the silencer from time to time. All the materials used
are also (in this case) corrosion resistant, so you can even wash the
thing in water.

All in all, quite useful accessory if you don't want to disturb your
neighbors. 

	Mika
From: alane@microsoft.com (Alan Ezekiel)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Are there restrictions on carry in public places
Date: 30 Sep 92 23:14:32 GMT
Article-I.D.: outmail.9209302158.AA10117
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

kokerj@rpi.edu (James Matthew Kokernak) writes:
#
#It is a violation of Federal Laws to trannsport a firearm into any federally
#insured buildings. This means any banks, post offices, federal court houses,
#etc.

It is a violation of Federal law to bring a firearm into a federal
building, such as a post office or federal courthouse.

I am unaware of any law relating to "federally insured buildings"; could
you provide a source for your information?

To the best of my knowledge, there is no federal legislation prohibiting
carry in a bank, although your state may have such regulations.

                               -- Alane --
   /-----------------------------------------------------------------\
  /   NOBODY shares my opinions,    |    "I am a jelly doughnut"      \
 /    especially not my employer    |    -- President John F Kennedy   \
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
From: toby@carson.u.washington.edu (Toby Bradshaw)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Remington 788's
Date: 30 Sep 92 16:41:43 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Sep30.153235.25727
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <1992Sep29.143916.17664@amc.com> reb@amc.com (Bob Brunjes) writes:
#After noting my 788, and exchanging winks, he told me that he normally
#shot ~.25", and really _couldn't_ figure out his problem.  He sure shook
#up the 30-30 shooters.

Well, I don't want to flame either Bob or the Rem 788, but a rifle that
AVERAGE 0.25" is a rare bird in anything but an outright BR rifle.
At the Kenmore rifle range near you, Bob, there are BR matches for
factory, custom, and pure BR on the second Saturday of every month.
0.25 MOA will win it all in ANY of the classes at 300 yards, and
would win all but the unlimited class at 200 yards.  Why not come
out and shoot with us?  For $6 you get concrete benches, target
butts and targets at 100, 200, and 300 yards, and the chance to
look over some interesting hardware.  I think I speak for everyone
at the matches, we're always interested in accurate rifles and
welcome new shooters.

Toby Bradshaw
Department of Biochemistry and College of Forest Resources
University of Washington, Seattle
toby@u.washington.edu

"A well-educated electorate being necessary to the prosperity of
a free state, the right of the people to keep and read books, shall
not be infringed."  Should we stop teaching children to read, since
what they might read could be harmful to them?
From: fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .38 & .357 (was Re: .222 and .223)
Date: 27 Sep 92 00:17:28 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder

In article <9209241615.AA16979@spsgate.sps.mot.com> rigg@ssdt-tempe.sps.mot.com (Dana Rigg) writes:
#My understanding of the Desert Eagle is that it is chambered for the .357
#auto-mag, not the .357.  If there is an auto that is chambered for .357 and
#not .357 auto-mag, please post the information.  I would be interested to hear
#about it.

The Desert Eagle is most definitely .357 mag, _not_ auto-mag. A friend
owns one, and used the same ammunition is it as his girlfriend used in
the her revolver (in fact, he mentioned that this was convienient, since
they could buy ammunition is quantity and split the cost...)

                                              Frank Crary
                                              CU Boulder
From: cower@SSD.intel.com (Rich Cower)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: re: children and guns
Date: 2 Oct 92 21:45:46 GMT
Organization: Supercomputer Systems Division, Intel Corp.


I have three children, a daughter 11 and two boys age 2 and 3. I've given the
two boys "pop" guns (they look like Win. mod 94's), and some cap pistols.
I've taught them NEVER to point their guns at people. A friend was over,
and observed the kids with their guns - and his comment was it was obvious
they had some gun handling instruction.

My daughter had the same training, tho she had little interest in a gun
as a young child. She has been thru the Hunter Saftey program, I attended
it with her. It was quite good. She has some rifles and a shotgun (28 ga.),
she is a very good shot and has a goo dunderstanding of gun saftey.

We had some family visiting this weekend, the father is a police officer. His
young boys were very interested in seeing my guns. When I showed them to
them, it was obvious they new nothing about how to handle them. Their
first reaction was to point them at something and pull the trigger. I was
shocked. I took some time to show them how to check if they were loaded, I
figured it was a good place to start.

In America today, it is likely that kids will be exposed to a gun. You cannot
isolate your child from them - they are, literally, everywhere. You should
take the responsibility that your children know what to do when around a gun.
The NRA has some good literature aimed at kids, and I think they will bring 
their program to your kids school. 

rich cower