HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dseal@armltd.co.uk (David Seal)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.games.cyber renaming and unmoderation
Date: 11 Dec 92 12:43:10 GMT
Distribution: news
Organization: A.R.M. Ltd, Swaffham Bulbeck, Cambs, UK

In article <ByyI2n.GBo@rice.edu> ratner@owlnet.rice.edu (Logan Joshua
Ratner) writes:

>Okay, so when the time comes, how do I vote?
>Oh, and I'll be out of town at the end of this period
>(1st week of January)  so can I vote early (or absentee)?

First, as far as I know, there is no absentee-voting on Usenet newsgroups.
If you're really unable to vote for the entirety of the voting period,
you're out of luck...

This may seem a bit harsh, but we get enough problems with votes as it is.
For instance, who would you send an absentee vote to? It can't be the actual
vote-taker, for at least two reasons: (a) the vote-taker may not even have
been selected yet; (b) even if the vote-taker has been selected, this would
give him or her some partial vote results, which would mean the "gag rule"
would have to be imposed as soon as the first absentee vote came in. This
would be very awkward if the vote-taker was still trying to iron out
problems in the proposal. So we'd need to set up sites which would accept
absentee votes and forward them when the real vote occurs, run by people who
could not be allowed to take part in *any* new group discussion.

Checking these votes were valid would be a major headache. The opportunities
for vote fraud would be increased. It's not even clear *how* you would cast
an absentee vote, since you wouldn't necessarily know what was being voted
on. E.g. if you were casting an absentee vote for
"soc.culture.native.american", how should it be counted if the name that is
finally voted on is "soc.culture.native.america"? If it was
"soc.culture.native-america"? If it was "soc.culture.native"?

In short, absentee-voting on Usenet newsgroups would be a Bad Idea (tm). In
theory, it might be possible to iron out the problems with it; in practice,
Usenet simply isn't organised enough for this to be feasible.

*However*, the voting period always lasts at least 21 days. So unless you're
unavailable for a long period and that period happens to be badly timed, you
should be able to vote. Also, such absences should only affect a very small
number of voters and should usually affect potential voters for and against
the group in the same way: it is very unlikely that they will actually
affect the outcome of the vote.

David Seal
dseal@armltd.co.uk

All opinions are mine only...
From: murphy@npri6.npri.com (David P. Murphy)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: help refure the "stink" claim!
Date: 11 Dec 92 16:06:20 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: NPRI, Alexandria VA


>My interpretation of a few hundred votes from tens of thousands
>of subscribers is that something stinks badly. 
>
>ross-c

the figure i have seen for what the name of the group would be is 3%.
the figure i have seen for the recent general election in america is 55%.

assumption:  who is president/senator/representative is more important
             than the name of a newsgroup.

conclusion:  due to apathy, many people do not care enough to vote even
             for important issues.

hypothesis:  due to apathy, even *more* people will not care enough
             to vote for less-important issues.

so:          is anyone surprised that the turnout for the r.m.s. vote
             was "only" 3%?  would someone with a thorough knowledge of
             the history of newsgroup voting (i.e., neither ross nor myself)
             care to provide some statistics to refute the "stink" claim?

ok
dpm
-- 
murphy@npri6.npri.com 602 Cameron St. Alexandria, VA 22314 (703) 683-9090

              When every one is dead the Great Game is finished.  Not before.
                              --- Hurree Babu, "Kim"
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: emcguire@intellection.com (Ed McGuire)
Subject: Re: PROPOSAL: Yes votes >= 200+2*No Votes
Followup-To: news.groups
Organization: Intellection, Inc.
	<werner-101292165353@128.32.157.31>
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 16:52:29 GMT

In article <werner-101292165353@128.32.157.31> werner@soe.berkeley.edu (John Werner) writes:

   I really don't understand the people who say that the group
   creation margin should be tied to the size of the net in some way.

   There seems to be an implicit assumption that new groups are bad.
   Why?

Small groups are significantly cheaper carried in mail as mailing
lists.  The cost of transporting an article to all news sites is
directly related to the size of the net, which is why the group
creation margin should include that as a factor.
-- 
Ed McGuire                   1603 LBJ Freeway, Suite 780
Systems Administrator/       Dallas, Texas 75234
 Member of Technical Staff   214/620-2100, FAX 214/484-8110
Intellection, Inc.           <ed@intellection.com>
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: oldman@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Tig Stone)
Subject: Re: RFD: talk.psychedelic
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Amherst
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 04:44:33 GMT


In article <1992Dec14.235542.6075@trl.oz.au> mathers@sibelius.trl.OZ.AU (Steven Mathers) writes:

> I say no way.  Im getting sick of the endless splintering of newsgroups.
> Whatever happened to cross-polination of ideas?  I like reading about
> lots of different threads in a newsgroup because often I get ideas from
> reading two posts on different but related threads in the same
> newsgroup. 

  Besides, the original article was not crossposted to
news.announce.newgroups, thus making the RFD invalid, anyway.

--
Tig Stone 
(oldman@titan.ucc.umass.edu)
From: Richard.Mathews@West.Sun.COM (Richard M. Mathews)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: soc.culture.baltic/balticum
Date: 14 Dec 1992 12:37:30 -0800
Organization: Sunsoft Inc., Los Angeles, CA.
NNTP-Posting-Host: pongo

sommar@enea.se (Erland Sommarskog) writes:

>I'm doubtful to this. My Swedish-English dictionary gives
>"The Baltic States" for "Baltikum". That is, "balticum" looks
>suspiciously Swenglish to me. Native speakers out there, is
>really "Balticum" used in English?

I've never heard it used in English over in this hemisphere.

>It is my impression that Baltic in contemporary English is used
>for Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania, and maybe the Kaliningrad
>area too.

I have never heard "Baltic" refer to Kaliningrad (except when used in
the very broad sense mentioned below).  Mostly it is used to mean only
Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia.  Occasionally, I have heard it used to
refer to all 9 countries around the Baltic Sea (plus Norway, too); but
in such a case it is carefully qualified to indicate that it is being
given a broader than normal usage.  And, of course, it is used to refer
to the Sea itself.

>Of course, soc.culture.baltics could be an alternative.

Baltic versus Baltics makes no difference to me.  Existing soc.culture
groups seem to be about evenly split between adjectives and nouns, so
s.c.baltic and s.c.baltics both seem to fit in.  But we must decide and
be clear about it -- we shouldn't end up with a fiasco such as s.c.india
versus s.c.indian.

    Richard M. Mathews			 Freedom for Lithuania
Richard.Mathews@West.Sun.COM		        Laisve!
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: idoy@crux1.cit.cornell.edu (Mike Wilson)
Subject: Re: STRAW VOTE ON NAME FOR NATIVE AMERICANS NEWSGROUP
Organization: Cornell Information Technologies
Date: 12 Dec 92 11:39:58 GMT

jfurr@nyx.cs.du.edu (JKF) writes:


>Up to you.  I don't participate in them that often because nothing I've
>given a fig about has come up in a straw vote.  Say a couple of weeks...
>don't comment on the results as they come in, just let them pile up, then
>report out the consensus.  If people aren't responding, repost the straw
>vote call, I dunno.  I certainly think there's bound to be room for a
>native Americans newsgroup on the net but don't really see a name that
>makes me want to stand up and salute, so I hope you get a lot of input.

Hello JFK,

Let me ask you this.  Should I keep all the proper names with people
along with their e-mail addresses so people can check on the vote
if they want to?  Should I send some kind of bounce-back message
to everyone who votes?  

Thanks,

Mike

idoy@crux1.cit.cornell.edu
"Where does the power come from to see the race to its end?"
			Eric Liddell -- 'Chariots of Fire'
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: emcguire@intellection.com (Ed McGuire)
Subject: *poing*
Supersedes: <EMCGUIRE.92Dec15074814@fuller.intellection.com>
Organization: Intellection, Inc.
	<1992Dec14.132521.8290@jato.jpl.nasa.gov> <8110@lib.tmc.edu>
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 13:58:07 GMT

                                            *poing*
                *poing*
                                                *poing*
                  *poing*
                                /             *poing*            /
               *poing*          \                                \
                                /                *poing*         /
    /           *poing*         \                                \   /
    \                           /         *poing*   **           /   \
    /          *poing***                   **     *****      *       /
    \       ** ***po*n******** ***     ** ****p*o*********  ***      \
    /     **** *********************  **********i**********i******   /
       ***************************** *******************************
   ******g*********p***************** **************************i*****
 **************i********************** ***************p*******************
 *************************************** **********************o***********
************n*****o********************* ***********************************
**************************************** *********g*****n********************
*************************************** *************************************
        *************************      ******************************
-- 
Ed McGuire                   1603 LBJ Freeway, Suite 780
Systems Administrator/       Dallas, Texas 75234
 Member of Technical Staff   214/620-2100, FAX 214/484-8110
Intellection, Inc.           <ed@intellection.com>
From: cgd@eden.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Chris G. Demetriou)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: 386bsd Neutral Vote Collectors
Date: 14 Dec 92 18:38:10
Organization: Kernel Hackers 'r' Us
	<Bz9F8C.4Do@ra.nrl.navy.mil>
NNTP-Posting-Host: eden.cs.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: atkinson@itd.nrl.navy.mil's message of Mon, 14 Dec 1992 17:28:59 GMT

one of them is in the process of being used...

8-)

Chris
(who's beginning to think he's got better things to do than worry about
running a vote... 8-)
--
Chris G. Demetriou                                    cgd@cs.berkeley.edu

"Sometimes it is better to have twenty million instructions by
        Friday than twenty million instructions per second." -- Wes Clark
From: swf@tools3teradata.com (Stan Friesen)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: DAVE HAYES MAY BE RIGHT!
Date: 14 Dec 92 16:58:38 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: NCR Teradata Database Business Unit

In article <1992Dec10.223550.11752@jato.jpl.nasa.gov>, dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Dave Hayes) writes:
|> Prove that it popped up in front of their noses. IN partiucular...were
|> you there while they were reading and did you see it pop up and was
|> their nose in front while it did?

Nope.

Say, are *you* volunteering to travel around the country forcing people to read
CFV notices?

What, you say you don't have time?  Neither do we.

Now, do you have any *other* way of making sure they read the notices?

When you come up with one let us know!

-- 
sarima@teradata.com			(formerly tdatirv!sarima)
  or
Stanley.Friesen@ElSegundoCA.ncr.com
Newsgroups: news.groups,alt.config,alt.folklore.computers
From: stoodt@cis.umassd.edu (Michael Stoodt)
Subject: Re: RESULT: comp.society.folklore unmoderation fails 729:151
Organization: University of Massachusetts Dartmouth
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 04:43:38 GMT

In <1992Dec17.020351.23814jp@tygra.Michigan.COM> jp@tygra.Michigan.COM (John Palmer) writes:
...

>PS: I'm sending you a Christmas present :->
>-- 
>Clinton/Gore in '92   | E-MAIL: jp@michigan.com  CAT-TALK IS BACK as a FREE
>PUTTING PEOPLE FIRST  | SYSTEM!! 313-882-2209 300-14400 V.32/V.32BIS/TurboPEP
>bye-bye Georgie....   | Anon-UUCP: System: tygra, Login: nuucp, no pw
>Its been a bitch...   | Get file "/cat/pub/filelist" for a list of files.

In case anyone missed it, this so-called "Christmas present" is a
newgroup control message setting comp.society.folklore to unmoderated,
as shown below:

:Control: newgroup comp.society.folklore
:Newsgroups: alt.config,comp.society.folklore.ctl
:Path: umassd.edu!nic.umass.edu!caen!destroyer!Tygra.Michigan.COM!news
:From: news@tygra.Michigan.COM (USENET News Manager)
:Subject: newgroup comp.society.folklore
:Organization: CAT-TALK Conferencing System
:Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 02:02:17 GMT
:Approved: news@tygra.michigan.com (USENET News Manager)
:Message-ID: <1992Dec17.020219.23751news@tygra.Michigan.COM>
:
:As per voting.
:   FOR: 729
:   AGAINST: 151
:   FOR COUNT > 100? YES

I think someone has their head on backwards.

Since the path to here is quite short, I'm taking it upon myself as
news admin here at University of Massachusetts Dartmouth to send out a
cancel for this and an appropriate counter-newgroup to reverse the
damage.
-- 
Michael A Stoodt  [MaS]      |        mumble mumble disclaimer mumble...
stoodt@cis.umassd.edu        | "Will the last person to leave the planet
Comp&InfoSci, UMassDartmouth |  please turn off the sun?" - Mike Resnick
Xref: sparky news.groups:24356 soc.motss:52367
From: rogerk@queernet.org (Roger B.A. Klorese)
Newsgroups: news.groups,soc.motss
Subject: Re: Soc.Motss.* (was Re: new newsgroup proposal:talk.politics.motss)
Date: 15 Dec 92 06:48:53 GMT
Organization: QueerNet

In article <1992Dec15.012442.27914@macc.wisc.edu> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>I don't think that alt.politics.homosexuality is an
>appropriate forum for the primary constituency of soc.motss,
>though that may have been the intent of its creator, which
>if I recall correctly was Roger Klorese.

Indeed it was.  It wasn't intended, however, to be "an appropriate forum
for the primary constituency of soc.motss," however; it was primarily
intended to offload the "are-queers-bad" stuff.  And it's worked, somewhat.
-- 
ROGER B.A. KLORESE                                              +1 415 ALL-ARFF
rogerk@unpc.QueerNet.ORG              {ames,decwrl,pyramid}!sgiblab!unpc!rogerk
"Normal is not something to aspire to, it's something to get away from."
                                                                   -- J. Foster
Newsgroups: news.groups,alt.config,alt.folklore.computers
From: jp@tygra.Michigan.COM (John Palmer)
Subject: Re: RESULT: comp.society.folklore unmoderation fails 729:151
Organization: CAT-TALK Conferencing System
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 02:03:50 GMT

In article <BzD7GH.865@polaris.async.vt.edu> jfurr@polaris.async.vt.edu (Joel K. Furr) writes:
"ib.tmc.edu>
"Organization: Escape from Blacksburg, VA
"
"In article <8145@lib.tmc.edu> jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard) writes:
">In article <BzCIKI.751@polaris.async.vt.edu> jfurr@polaris.async.vt.edu (Joel K
". Furr) writes:
">>When you compare the incredible illogic of Brader's hijacking proposal with th
"e
">>simple reality that five minutes filling out a registration form at any of
">>several free newsreading sites would have taken, you really wonder why he went
"
">>to all this bother.
">
">I've already shot this one down, but Joel keeps coming back to it...the facts
">don't support his case. It's simply not as easy as he makes it out to be;
">either there are expensive or difficult registration requirements, severe
">access limits, or both.
"
"Sorry, Jay, but THE NET DIDN'T BUY THAT ARGUMENT.  Are you with me, Jay?  Your
"stubborn, idiotic, Neanderthalistic argument that the entire net should be
"forced to move alt.folklore.computers into a comp. group just so YOU could read
"it without having to register at another site WENT DOWN IN FLAMES.
"
"You with me?  YOUR SIDE LOST.  YOUR ARGUMENTS LOST.  Are you getting this?
"
"So if you want to read alt.folklore.computers, you can either do it at another
"site, which will take five minutes to arrange (as many, many people have
"demonstrated during this flamewar), or you can sit in your sandbox and draw
"messages in the sand.  Have fun!
"
"Bye, Jay.
"
"Bye!

Hey jerk, lay off the guy.
 
Jay: Don't let assholes get you down. There are alot of them on the net
and in the world. 

PS: I'm sending you a Christmas present :->
-- 
Clinton/Gore in '92   | E-MAIL: jp@michigan.com  CAT-TALK IS BACK as a FREE
PUTTING PEOPLE FIRST  | SYSTEM!! 313-882-2209 300-14400 V.32/V.32BIS/TurboPEP
bye-bye Georgie....   | Anon-UUCP: System: tygra, Login: nuucp, no pw
Its been a bitch...   | Get file "/cat/pub/filelist" for a list of files.
From: dseal@armltd.co.uk (David Seal)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RESULT: comp.society.folklore unmoderation fails 729:151
Date: 17 Dec 92 14:37:17 GMT
Distribution: news
Organization: A.R.M. Ltd, Swaffham Bulbeck, Cambs, UK

In article <1gltddINNhq7@news.UU.NET> msb@sq.sq.com (Mark Brader) writes:

>My proposal to unmoderate comp.society.folklore and make it a replacement
>for alt.folklore.computers has been given one of the most decisive defeats
>I have ever seen a newsgroup proposal suffer.

Just as a matter of curiosity: is this the most decisive defeat a Usenet
newsgroup proposal has ever suffered? I certainly can't remember a worse
one...

David Seal
dseal@armltd.co.uk

All opinions are mine only...
From: swf@tools3teradata.com (Stan Friesen)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: Futility
Date: 17 Dec 92 19:44:50 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: NCR Teradata Database Business Unit

In article <1992Dec14.142238.9311@jato.jpl.nasa.gov>, dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Dave Hayes) writes:
|> 
|> To do so is to ensure defeat. And, unlike most, I get a lot out of heated
|> discussions. That's not to say that I endeavor to create them, (it's my
|> first) but this time it was appropriate.

Unfortunately, unless you can start being more reasonable, and less antagonistic,
you are *already* ensuring your "defeat", simply by making it impossible to
get along with you.

|> Just how do I win from shutting up? 

It *might* allow the handful of people who are making *reasonable* attempts
at preventing this sort of thing in the future to be heard and have thier ideas
examined, and even implemented.

-- 
sarima@teradata.com			(formerly tdatirv!sarima)
  or
Stanley.Friesen@ElSegundoCA.ncr.com
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: emcguire@intellection.com (Ed McGuire)
Subject: Re: User's Guide to the Changing USENET
Organization: Intellection, Inc.
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 18:38:04 GMT

In article <2B2756A2.6E3C@tct.com> chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg) writes:

   According to ross-c@scs.leeds.ac.uk:
   >If you can't attack the argument, attack the newsreading software.
   Now tell me, is this attitude consistent with your stated desire to
   see everyone well-informed?

Strange that the smilie in the article was replaced by a period in the
quote.  I guess you were so sure Ross-c was serious that you removed
the "error."

I have had no trouble following the article references included both
in the header and the body of Ross-c's articles.  Neither, I suspect,
did John Stanley, who was the originator of that ridiculous comment
facetiously quoted by Ross-c.

On the other hand, if you were also joking, forgive me for being humor
impaired.

Regards, Ed
-- 
Ed McGuire                   1603 LBJ Freeway, Suite 780
Systems Administrator/       Dallas, Texas 75234
 Member of Technical Staff   214/620-2100, FAX 214/484-8110
Intellection, Inc.           <ed@intellection.com>
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Dave Hayes)
Subject: Re: "Dave Hayes" an AI program; film at 11.
Reply-To: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov
Organization: Jet Propulsion Lab - Pasadena, CA
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 01:53:01 GMT

jfurr@polaris.async.vt.edu (Joel K. Furr) writes:
>Help end the flamewar!  Stop replying to "Dave Hayes" today.

Awwww....you're no fun.
-- 
Dave Hayes - Network & Communications Engineering - JPL / NASA - Pasadena CA
dave@elxr.jpl.nasa.gov       dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov         ...usc!elroy!dxh

Don't teach the blind until you have practiced living with closed eyes
Xref: sparky news.groups:24636 alt.config:8030 alt.folklore.computers:18080 alt.fan.john-palmer:464
From: stoodt@cis.umassd.edu (Michael Stoodt)
Newsgroups: news.groups,alt.config,alt.folklore.computers,alt.fan.john-palmer
Subject: Re: RESULT: comp.society.folklore unmoderation fails 729:151
Date: 18 Dec 92 14:54:52 GMT
Organization: University of Massachusetts Dartmouth

In <scs.724685791@wotan.iti.org> scs@iti.org (Steve Simmons) writes:

>klein@egr.msu.edu (Jeffrey Klein) writes:

>>In article <scs.724598988@hela.iti.org> scs@iti.org (Steve Simmons) writes:
>>>
>>>Before getting too excited, it's worth doing a bit of research . . .

>>Well, there was a cancel message sent.
>>Here's how it looked from umass.

>>>Control: newgroup comp.society.folklore
>>>Newsgroups: alt.config,comp.society.folklore.ctl
>>>Path: umassd.edu!nic.umass.edu!caen!destroyer!Tygra.Michigan.COM!news

>That's not a cancel, that's another newgroup setting it back.  It
>would have left the original message intact.

The lines above are a segment of the control article that John Palmer
(or an incredible simulation thereof) sent, as it appeared here.  The
newgroup reversing the effect would (and did) say "Control: newgroup 
comp.society.folklore moderated".

I sent both a cancel to try to limit the damage and a newgroup to try
to reverse it.  I'm the news admin here at the University of
Massachusetts Dartmouth (and system admin for the Computer and
Information Science department), I was logged in when my news server
mailed me a report of the de-moderation (11:30pm-ish eastern time),
and I thought I would try to take action before it got too far; but I
forgot that caen exchanged news with uunet, so I was too late to
prevent a lot of the trouble.

I quoted the unmoderation article in full in both control messages and
in an earlier article in this thread (<BzDzss.Its@umassd.edu>).

I apologize to the universe for muddying the water with my cancel, but
I thought it was an appropriate action at the time...
-- 
Michael A Stoodt  [MaS]      |        mumble mumble disclaimer mumble...
stoodt@cis.umassd.edu        | "Will the last person to leave the planet
Comp&InfoSci, UMassDartmouth |  please turn off the sun?" - Mike Resnick
Xref: sparky news.groups:24534 alt.native:1455