HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dv52151@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Axly)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: Time mechanics
Date: 9 Sep 92 20:18:38 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

sl9b4@cc.usu.edu (Deep Six) writes:

>Depends on what movies you watch. Some movies don't try to glorify combat
>or try to make combat ``look cool.'' Some movies try to give the viewer an 
>idea of how fast, furious and confusing it is. One that springs to mind is
>84 Charlie MoPic (The Chalie MoPic Company). It's about a project started
>in Vietnam called ``Lessons Learned.'' The idea was to attatch Army motion
>picture camera operators (MoPics) to line units to record procedures specific 
>to the areas and situations of Vietnam. The film is shot from the POV of
>one such MoPic attatched to a LRRP team in the Central Highlands. The fire
>fights are confusing at best, and a couple of them are so short that if you 
>look away you miss them.


Yeah, it was a great movie. "Platoon" isn't bad either. If you can figure
out exactly what is going on during one of the combat scenes, more 
power to you. 

Axly
From: slp66@cc.usu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: Time mechanics and manuvering
Date: 6 Sep 92 15:27:46 MDT
Distribution: world
Organization: Utah State University

> Let's put the question to your
> garden-variety foot soldier. If you asked an infantry man if it is 
> adviseable or desireable to move when the enemy is shooting, he'd 
> probably say, no, unless you have a damn good reason, some cover fire,
> some concealment, a lot of luck and big balls. GURPS reflects this. 
> When the bullets (or spells or arrows) start to fly, you shouldn't be
> able to take a minute to stroll around the battle ground, checking
> this and that, making decisions and then taking an action (like you
> can in AD&D). GURPS is more realistic in this sense. For me, that is
> both better and more playable. I am not saying that GURPS is more 
> realistic overall, but it is clearly the exact opposite of what you
> first asserted.
> 

Now where does AD&D allow you to stroll around the battlefield for one minute? 
Combat in both games is slow to run. This allows PLAYERS to survery their
options for tens of minutes and to make tactically correct decisions.  I've
never seen an AD&D game where a character walks around for a round or two
taking notes or drawing pictures. 

>> Ok, in Harn you can run away.  Not in Gurps.  Hey you better stay where you are
>> and hope you can fight it out.  Manuevering in GURPS is suicidal.  It's very
>> bad.  Don't try it.  You'll get killed.  
> 
> If you ever get in combat, better do the same thing. That's good, realistic
> advice. GURPS reflects reality in this sense. If you want to move in GURPS,
> you better damn sure have some cover fire, maybe some smoke, some masking
> terrain, and a prayer in your heart. And if you do move, make sure you only
> move 2-3 seconds at time, then take cover again. That is realistic. One minute
> rounds are not.
> 
Ok, now hang on.  Not one month ago, Chadd, you GMed an ambush against the
group.  (first adventure, after the barge was disabled.)  Now we got ambushed
and had a tough time fighting our way out.  Fine.  We got the bad guys by
taking cover and returning fire.  NOw, after the ambush, you chastened us
because we "didn't take control of the fight."  The number one option, you
asserted, would have been for us to fall back and set up our own ambush.  Now
in this thread, you claim that movement should be eshewed for dropping in one's
tracks and laying down fire.  Now, which is the true story.  Sure, cover plays
a huge role here and there are other variables, but let's nail down some
princibles.  In this thread, you claim manueving is bad and that GURPS
realistically treats this subject.  A month ago you said something very
opposite.  What's the real story?


Matt
From: v057qkmm@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (BABBLING SAGE)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: Real Sci-Fi Games
Date: 10 Sep 92 23:35:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <10SEP199210235534@rigel.tamu.edu>, fts5792@rigel.tamu.edu (SRONCE, FRANK T) writes...
>In article <BuCxyJ.3nJ@acsu.buffalo.edu>, v054nn84@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Foto...Taking pictures again, and Happy for it!) writes...
>>I am not after your 50 bucks, but I am after your opinion.  The term COOLESt
>>races does not impress me so much as do your observations regarding the combat
>>system for Battlelords.  How does it compare, in your opinion, to Living Steel?
>> 
>>Skeksis
> 
>I, on the other hand, having put my Living Steel rules back in their box after
>a couple of fruitless attempts to understand the combat rules, would rather
>hear about these "Cool" alien races and what was so original and interesting
>about them. 
> 
>ps- While I like a simpler combat system, Living Steel has about the best
>"Margin Quotes" of any game I've ever seen. And the Swords (can't remember
>how many there were) were also real cool... "In the end, they released the
>entire Black Legion... I heard that some of them made it all the way to the
>Imperial landing zone..."
> 
>SO, combat system aside, how is Battlelords as an Role-playing game? 
> 
>Kiz the Curious... like I haven't got enough news to read already...

	I am not going to claim to be familiar with Living Steel; summarize
the combat system and I will compare it to BL system.
	Ok, since you _asked_ about the races, I will give a quick summary:

	Chatilian Empath: Small "Asparagus Men" with mental powers.
	Cizerack: Female cats with incredible agility.
	Eridani: Warriors dedicated to the perfection of the Self.
	Gen Humans: Genetically engineered humans.
	Humans: What needs be said?
	Mazians: Amoeba-like creatures with the ability to change shape.
	Mutzachans: "Melon Heads" with the power to manipulate energy.
	Orion Rogues: Seven-fingered humanoids who like to party.
	Phentari: Bipedal squids that eat Humans.
	Python Lizards: Aquatic huge reptilian beasts.
	Ram Pythons: Jungle-dwelling miniature dinosaurs.
	Zen Rigeln: Skeletal beings with the power to heal.

	As for role playing, these races are described much more fully in
the book. And they are only general tendencies; between the race, skills, 
fickle finger of fate tables, and your own input, you can develop your own
unique character. For example, my Mutzachan, Bluerazor, has shunned the 
normal ways of his race, and does not study Engineering. he instead seeks
combat and is a mercenary. I have known Ram Python medics, Orion Rogue
reporters, Orions who were raised by phentari parents and were beaten as
a child, friendly Chatilians, and even stable Phentari.

Hope this answers your question.
Bluerazor
Xref: sparky rec.games.frp.advocacy:2183 rec.games.frp:25133 rec.games.frp.misc:5302
From: v057qkmm@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (BABBLING SAGE)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy,rec.games.frp,rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Let's talk REAL sci-Fi systems
Keywords: The best
Date: 10 Sep 92 23:24:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Sep10.202615.19752@noose.ecn.purdue.edu>, tag@hermes.ecn.purdue.edu (Tony A. Gibbens) writes...
>>peters@physics.ubc.ca (Dan Peters) writes:
> 
>..... a lot of stuff deleted .......
> 
>Just one area where your so called best game lacks is in the area of
>mass scale combat.  Let me explain.  Currently, I am writing an article
>for a game magazine over the "when's why's, how's, what's, etc" of mass
>scale combat.  It has been my experience that eventually, at one time or
>another, most every GM has entertained the idea of elevating his players
>to the levels of generals (or what ever), allowing his players to control
>huge forces, to create and wage war, not small conflicts.  
> 
>The problems involved with doing this, and keeping all players interrested,
>are many.  Some of these problems are actually very hard to solve.  Clearly,
>if a GM wishes to to run a large scale combat (perhaps more -- economics, etc),
>he (she) does not need the additional problem of not using a system which
>easily translates from role playing to strategic and vice-versa.  In this way,
>your game is clearly not on par with other systems.  
> 
> 
> 
>--
>There are no absolutes, and even that's a maybe.
>tag@ecn.purdue.edu (Tony A. Gibbens)

	Perhaps I should have been a little more clear. What I am referring to
in saying "combat system" is the typical small-party actions that are involved
in most adventures. Large-scale combat is a generally different matter: in
a futuristic battlefield, no large-scale combat would be complete without
tanks, fighters, etc. It would be impossible to cover all of the added 
factors in a large scale battle - not to mention the huge array of tanks,
spacecraft, and skimmers available in the 23rd century - in the limited space
available in the basic rulebook. Sadly, these rules must wait until a
supplement is published to cover them. So I admit that these rules are lacking,
but only because they were intentionally omitted, not because an inadequate
attempt was made to cover them. 

Bluerazor
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy,rec.games.frp,rec.games.frp.misc
From: davis@news.ccutah.edu (mike davis)
Subject: Re: Let's talk REAL sci-Fi systems
Organization: University of Utah Computer Center
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 04:19:44 GMT

v057qkmm@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Bluerazor) writes:
: 
: 	Ok, I'm going to objectively compare Battlelords to those OTHER 
: so-called Sci-fi game systems out there. So listen up gamers, and flame
: away!! I'm going to be brutally honest.
: 
	Lots of stuff deleted

: 	You like some other system? 
: 		Rifts - Haven't looked over this, but if its anything
: 	like Palladium's other stuff with SDC and MDC, I don't want to
: 	have anything to do with it.
: 		GURPS - Get real. Want to play a generic system which 
: 	requires you to buy an infinite supply of supplements? I like 
: 	my games specific.
: 		Chart master?

	What????  I thought you were trying to sound like an expert on
	space RPGS!!!   Where is:
		Space Oprea
		Mach
		Travaller
		Star Trek
		Star Aces
		Star Wars
		Space Patrol
		Living Steel
		Mekton
		FTL 2400
		Aliens
		And many more...?????

	Please tell me.  I must know.  How does Battlelords compare to
	these games????  Enquiring minds want to know!!!
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: bcd@fang.att.com (Brendan Dwyer)
Subject: Re: Why TW2000 eats wormy dog turds.
Organization: AT&T Tax Systems Development, Maitland FL
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 21:47:59 GMT

From article <1992Sep13.164537.58847@cc.usu.edu>, by sl9b4@cc.usu.edu (Deep Six):
> In article <1992Sep13.060829.8129@fang.att.com>, 
>  bcd@fang.att.com (Brendan Dwyer) writes:
>  
>>     TW2000 has got some major flaws to it.
> 
> [Portions of how T:2000 characters overeat and can survive head shots from a
> .45 deleted]
> 
> Okay, so what? You're going to throw a game system in the trash becuase 
> there are one or two points which are unrealistic? Every single game I 
> have ever played (I haven't played 'em all, but I've played more than my 
> share) has aspects which are not realistic. I'd be willing to submit that 
> 90% of all games have unrealistic PC damage rules. It's unavoidable. PCs
> have to be tougher than real people, or they would die too easily and RPGs
> would be unending and frustrating character generation sessions. 
> 
> If there are rules in a game that you don't like, change or throw them out.
> I know there are games with too many flaws to correct, but IMO T:2000 isn't
> one of those. 
> 
> Okay,
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Chadd VanZanten SL9B4@CC.USU.EDU + ``Ahm just a hunka' hunka' burnin' luv.''
> --Elvis, Burning Love
Maybe it's just me, but I find frustrating when I spend $30 for the second
edition of a game and the damage done by almost every weapon is too low.  I
consider this something that should have been picked up during play testing.
I've had charaters survive multiple hits from .50 cal M2 which, according to
what I've read, was pretty rare.  I do agree that PCs should have some sort
of benefit or else they'd be blown to shit early on and that's not much fun,
but that could be better achieved by giving the PCs a better initiative.  Give
the PCs more opportunity to control their characters and let weapons effect
PCs and NPCs equally.  I must admit that continued reading has given me an
appreciation for the setting and random encounter tables.  I take back some
hostility of my earlier post.  Keep smiling.

Brendan Dwyer
From: v054nn84@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Foto...Taking pictures again, and Happy for it!)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Legacy, what is?
Date: 13 Sep 92 10:20:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

From some of the posts recently, I have figured out that LEGACY is a science 
fiction based game but other than that, I havenever heard of it.  Can some
one please expand on this?

Skeksis
From: v054nn84@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Foto...Taking pictures again, and Happy for it!)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Ars Magica Combat Rounds
Date: 5 Sep 92 23:12:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

Axly,

     I have never read Ars Magica, but it does sound interesting.  I think the
reason I use 5 second rounds is that was the standard for a lot of games a few
years ago and it is what i am used to.  In that I do ref a lot of Star Wars for
my crew, I have begun to wonder about that particular 5 second round.  As
player and NPCs start getting powerful due to experience, they are going to be
able to pack more and more action into the same five seconds they were at one
time only making one or two actions in.  Eventually any long term Star Wars
campaign will have characters capable of taking 5 and 6 attacks in a single
five second round!  WHEW!!!  :)

Skeksis - Me transmitte sursum, Caledoni
From: v054nn84@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Foto...Taking pictures again, and Happy for it!)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Maturity in Gaming
Date: 7 Sep 92 20:58:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

I have been reading this thread with no little interest, and I too was somewhat 
startled by the assertion that RPG players lack in maturity and the almost
blanket statement that all RPGers play prior to graduation (graduation from
what I might ask because no age/grade limit was placed on the comment), and I
fell compelled to add my two bits in.  To start with, of my seven member gaming
group, two are in college, one works for a college, one is a housewife who
works for her church, one is a 34 year old attending cooking school and there
is me, who labours as a pseudo-manager of a bookstore.  As you can see, we
have not ended our gaming because of some arbirarily decided rite of passage,
nor are we a bunch of munchkins (who ever started the use of THAT derogatory
term should have said term tattooed to their forehead...it is as bad as calling
non-SCAdians *mundanes*).  To lump all gamers into that view because that is
the more visable representative sample is about as insulting as thinking all
blacks are like Amos n Andy!
Let me propose this though...a big part of this misconception can be laid
straight at the door of TSR who it seems has gone out ofits way to advertise
its product *towards* the high school market and mentality.  For all of the
differnet games that are currently availabvle and played, the most visable one
is, and probably always will be, Advanced Dungeons and Dragons...

+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|                                  Skeksis                                  |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|                        Let me get this straight.                          |
| I'm driving a 91 Geo and he's driving a 93 Vette and you want me to drag? | 
|             What are you, some kind of millitant optimist?                |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
^M^M~
From: Nick_Janow@mindlink.bc.ca (Nick Janow)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: Real Sci-Fi Games
Date: 10 Sep 92 23:56:45 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

v121mhb5@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (D.O.G. of S.A.R.P.A.) writes:

> Lastly, judging by the people who've been posting on behalf of the game, you
> might be thinking that it is some sort of ultra-violent munchkin fest.

I couldn't have phrased it better myself.  :)


> However, there is not as yet enough background material in place to run a
> convincing espionage campaign, for example.  You'll have to put in some work
> on your own.  But if you like hi-tech and big guns, you'll like this game.

Now that's a useful review.  Instead of the usual "X is the greatest game
ever!", you added the qualifiers of the styles of gaming it's intended for.

--

Nick_Janow@mindlink.bc.ca
From: v054nn84@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Foto...Taking pictures again, and Happy for it!)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Other 'Alignment' systems
Date: 5 Sep 92 10:00:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

To start this, I enjoy Lace and Steel, so my comments are based on that
particular system.  I agree that the Pendgaron system is a good way of
describing the 'alignment' of a character but I prefer the Self Image
Investment system of Lace and Steel.  Simply put, the system rewards those
players who follow the dictates of their character's personality and hampers
those who do things that are patently outside the scope of their character's
outlook on the world.  Seems more like roleplaying to me as opposed to many a
time where I have watched players bicker for HOURS about whether someone would
do such and 
Skeksis - Me transmitte sursum, Caledoni
From: woodhams@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Michael Woodhams)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why TW2000 eats wormy dog turds.
Date: 15 Sep 92 00:14:32 GMT
Organization: Princeton University Observatory
Originator: news@nimaster

In article <1992Sep14.020751.28172@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> sdt8s@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Steve Tilson) writes:
>Speaking of TW2000 unrealism...
>
>About five years ago, I was playing this game with some friends
>at another college. Low on just about everything, we came
>across a house and decided to see if the nice folks living
>there might like to sell us some food. First thing you know, my
>character, a G2 type with an M-60 GPMG, is confronted by a
>ten year-old girl armed with a fragmentation grenade. "Good
>heavens!" my character shouts, and aiming for the chest at a
>range of three feet, opens up. The first two shots miss. The
>third hits the girl in the foot. She curses and stumbles back
>into the house.
>
>Perhaps it was just poor GMing. IMHO you have to make
>allowances for point-blank combat, no matter what the player
>rolls.

So a group of heavily armed men in a world of anarchy advance on a
farmhouse containing one girl. She is armed. Well, in the sort of
world I gather TW2000 is set in, how many unarmed farmers are there
left?  Without saying "we just want to buy food" or "drop the grenade
or you're history", they open fire with lethal intent on a 10 year old
girl. I hope that next thing her younger sister drove a tank out
through the barn door and vapourised you with a flamethrower. Anyone
who shoots at 10 year-olds deserves what they get.

(A little bit off the topic, I know. Also, you could have chosen to
play an infanticidal maniac for some reason, in which case this is
appropriate role-playing.)

Michael W.
From: v054nn84@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Foto...Taking pictures again, and Happy for it!)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: Incomplete Posts
Date: 12 Sep 92 20:22:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Sep12.105341.1@wharton.upenn.edu>, millerl@wharton.upenn.edu writes...
>In article <BuFt71.BHI@acsu.buffalo.edu>, v054nn84@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Foto...Taking pictures again, and Happy for it!) writes:
>> Loren,
>> 
>>    Of COURSE it was incomplete!  I was still trying to use the VT emulation in
> 
>Defensive aren't you? Oh well. Some people just have no sense of humor.
> 
>-- 
>whoah,
>+++++++++++++++++++++++23
>Loren Miller                           internet: MILLERL@wharton.upenn.edu
>The more corrupt the government, the greater the number of laws -- Tacitus

Hey, I thought I was being funny!  grrr..defensive posture on.....  ;)

So...I goofed...AGAIN.  ;)

Skeksis
Xref: sparky rec.games.frp.advocacy:2071 rec.games.frp.misc:5030
From: ratinox@splinter.coe.northeastern.edu (Richard Pieri/Stainless Steel Rat)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy,rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: WARP WORLD
Date: 6 Sep 92 14:00:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: splinter.RATINOX.92Sep6100000
Reply-To: ratinox@meceng.coe.northeastern.edu
Followup-To: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Organization: 3WA, Boston Office. Or Nu Meta Chi. Take your pick.
In-reply-to: jacobus@symphony.cc.purdue.edu's message of 5 Sep 92 15:14:07 GMT
X-Get-A-Clue: Have two, they're small.
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>>>>> "BJM" == Bryan J. Maloney <jacobus@symphony.cc.purdue.edu> writes:

BJM> Given these two weaknesses--intricate combat system and non-intuitive
BJM> skill modifiers, the game is still quite good.  Perhaps a bit of a
BJM> reformat and re-presentation might help in the next edition.

Take a look at Corps. While I haven't used Corps or the TimeLords core,
Corps is supposed to be a distillation of the TL core, with a simpler skill
and modifier system. At least that's what Greg Porter says :-).

--Rat

||||| | | | |  |  |  |   |   |    |    |    |   |   |  |  |  |  | | | | | |||||
                                                   __        ___ 
Richard Pieri, Northeastern's Stainless Steel Rat/   | /| / /   | The Worlds
Internet: ratinox@meceng.coe.northeastern.edu   /__  |/ |/ / /| | Welfare Works
    UUCP: ...!northeastern.edu!meceng!ratinox  /   | /| / / / | | Association:
  BITNET: UA_RLP@NUHUB{.BITNET}               /__  |/ |/ / /  | | I will solve
  USNail: 14 Westdale RD  Holbrook, MA 02343 /   | /| / / /___| | any problem
 ICBMnet: 42 deg 1 min N, 71 deg 0 min W    /    |/ |/ /_//_____| for you.
From: v054nn84@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Foto...Taking pictures again, and Happy for it!)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Feeling them wounds
Date: 6 Sep 92 10:19:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41


This discussion of realism in AD&D over GURPS seems to be changing into a
debate over whether or not characters are reacting realistically to wounds
based on the rules.  The general commentary seems to say that no, they do not,
which is fine if that is the way the rules are set up and that is the way you
want things to go in your 'reality'.  But for those who are looking for a
simple way to bring some sort of wound response to their games, why not try a
variant of the Star Wars system.  A character hit but lightly so is
'stunned/staggered'; they lose one dice off of their skills for the remained of
this 5 second round and the next one.  Those hit harder are considered 
wounded' and lose that skill dice until healed.  After that they are
'incapacitated' and are out of the action and one more bonk and they are
getting a first hand look at the mechanics of dying.  This skills penalty
(small though it may be) does add to the game, makes players aware they have
been wounded, has the side effect of simulating pain/shock/whathaveyou and is
easy
easy to deal with.  Did I mention that the wound effects are cummulative (sp?) 
Xref: sparky rec.games.frp.advocacy:2052 rec.games.frp.misc:5009