HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: zeke@fasttech.com (Bohdan Tashchuk)
Subject: Re: educational system (was: Re: new initiative)
Organization: Fast Technology   Beaverton, OR
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 23:03:05 GMT

In <C17CCL.HwB@slipknot.rain.com> robert@slipknot.rain.com (Robert Reed) writes:

>Our society has gotten too complex for the educational system to stop after
>teaching "the three Rs."  It certainly should do a good job in teaching these
>basics, but it needs to do much more to prepare children to deal with the
>problems they may expect to face in their lifetimes.

First, fix the school system so that it DOES teach the three Rs. Then, and
only then, talk to us about everything else you want the school system,
instead of parents, to do.

>Inner city youth suffer primarily from living on the small
>end of the economic system, where it is easy to see how rage, despair and
>criminality can fester.

This is pure liberal bullshit. It's completely wrong.

I grew up as lower-middle-class in the 60's in New York. All around me were
kids much poorer than me, most of whom did NOT have any "rage, despair, or
criminality".

My parents and these other parents were very hard working. Many managed
to move their families out of the city and achieve a better life for
themselves and their children. Even those parents that couldn't move made
sure their kids got an education that would let them lead a better life.

How did the parents accomplish this? Thru hard work. Thru avoidance of
conspicuous consumption. Thru two-parent households. In many families
the father worked at a relatively low paying job during the day and often
worked evenings at a second job. The mother often cleaned offices for
minimum wage at night.

The one way they DIDN'T accomplish this is thru welfare (or public assistance,
or whatever PC euphemism is in vogue these days).

The Republicans have this right. Being poor isn't what makes it easy for
"rage, despair, and criminality to fester". It's the lack of family values.
Such as a work ethic. Such as two-parent families. Such as respect for basic
societal and religious laws like "thou shall not steal". The biggest cause of
the collapse of the inner cites is the complete breakdown of family values,
accelerated by if not directly caused by the ascendency of the welfare state.
From: williams@admin.ogi.edu (Julianne Williams)
Newsgroups: or.politics
Subject: Washington Cty land use ordinances
Date: 21 Jan 93 23:41:55 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.48927
Distribution: or
Organization: Oregon Graduate Institute

Is anyone familiar with 3 new (last fall) ordinances that basically
say the County can site roads anywhere up to 1/2 mi on either side of
the center line?  I know there are people with petitions this week and next,
but I am curious as to who started such ordinances?  Which one(s) of our
county commissioners?
From: mikeq@freddy.CNA.TEK.COM
Newsgroups: or.politics
Subject: He's back in town...
Date: 28 Jan 93 18:28:12 GMT
Distribution: or
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Redmond,  OR.

Thing is, what good is he? If he can't show his face
in public without getting hooted off the podium!

Pack it in, Bob.


Newsgroups: or.politics
From: robert@slipknot.rain.com (Robert Reed)
Subject: Re: educational system
Reply-To: robert@slipknot.rain.com.UUCP (Robert Reed)
Organization: Home Animation Ltd.
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 22:17:37 GMT

In article <1jtggqINNoj2@flop.ENGR.ORST.EDU> downsj@atlantis.CS.ORST.EDU (jason downs) writes:
|In article <C1A08r.L2w@slipknot.rain.com>
|	robert@slipknot.rain.com.UUCP (Robert Reed) writes:
|>[...]  Each of
|>these offer a unique perspective on American history and culture, and the
|>merging of them in a teaching environment is what multiculturalism is all
|>about.
|
|no, the goal of multiculturalism is to preset each culture as seperate [sic],
|and generally to to [sic] express the opinion that those other cultures (be
|they whatever), are better than the white-euro culture.

Only in your clouded, presumptive, ideologically biased perspective.  The
objectives of multicultural education are principally to: 1) provide for
students a view of cultures other than their own, so that they may be better
able to understand and appreciate the cultural perspective of those peoples, and
2) provide for students who may not have a good exposure to their own culture a
better understanding of their heritage and history, so that they can see what
role their ancestors played in getting the world to where we are.  Inclusion is
also a primary means for building trust and reinforcing the ties that do bind
our body politic.

So, did you have a bad experience with some teacher who insisted black is better
or some other such aggrandizement, or has someone just been stuffing your head
full of half truths?

|none are better than any other, and all make up america.

Nothing I've said should suggest anything different than that.  They all have
their good points and their bad points, and as long as those points are not
coincident, we have something to learn from other cultures as well as something
to teach.  And once again, that's what multiculturalism is all about.
________________________________________________________________________________
Robert Reed			Home Animation Ltd.		503-656-8414
robert@slipknot.rain.com	5686 First Court, West Linn, OR 97068

DISORDER IN THE COURT

Q Doctor, did you say he was shot in the woods?
A No, I said he was shot in the lumbar region.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: downsj@atlantis.CS.ORST.EDU (jason downs)
Newsgroups: or.politics
Subject: Re: educational system
Date: 24 Jan 93 07:29:30 GMT
Article-I.D.: flop.1jtggqINNoj2
Organization: spherical domain of death and darkness
NNTP-Posting-Host: atlantis.cs.orst.edu

In article <C1A08r.L2w@slipknot.rain.com>
	robert@slipknot.rain.com.UUCP (Robert Reed) writes:
>[...]  Each of
>these offer a unique perspective on American history and culture, and the
>merging of them in a teaching environment is what multiculturalism is all
>about.

no, the goal of multiculturalism is to preset each culture as seperate, and
generally to to express the opinion that those other cultures (be they
whatever), are better than the white-euro culture.

none are better than any other, and all make up america.

-- 
\-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-/
 \           - jason downs -           /\   - downsj@atlantis.CS.ORST.EDU -  /
 / zeppelin/amiga release 2/insane guy \/ led/vasudeva/lord of fear of death \
/-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-\
Newsgroups: or.politics
From: stever@crosstalk.tv.tek.com (Steven E. Rice  P.E.)
Subject: Religion is belief, not behavior (was Re: new initiative)
Organization: Tektronix TV Products
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 06:36:53 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.163904.10387@hpcvca.cv.hp.com> Scott Linn
(scott@hpcvccl.cv.hp.com) writes:

> downsj@atlantis.CS.ORST.EDU (jason downs) writes:
>> actually, it doesn't matter if it's a choice, or not. homosexuality
>> is a type of _behaviour_, and cannot be treated as the basis for a
>> minority class because of that fact.
> 
> Then, why don't I see you heavily lobbying to get religion removed from
> being a "protected" class?  It is surely a choice, and definitely a
> behavior.

Scott seems confused about the difference between belief and behavior.
Religion is a belief, although there may be behaviors which stem from
that belief.  (James, the brother of Jesus, addressed that very issue
when he said that "faith without works is dead."  In other words,
a supposed belief which is not reflected in the person's actions is
not a real belief.)

A simple illustration will show the difference.  If I form the First
Cannibal Church of Beaverton to express a belief in ritual cannibalism,
I violate no law.  Even if I preach that cannibalism is the way to
salvation (again, expression of belief), I violate no law.  But the
moment I kill a human for ritual cannibalism (a proscribed behavior),
I have violated the law.

The Founding Fathers made it very clear that beliefs are protected.
However, the behaviors that stem from those beliefs may be proscribed.

					Steve Rice

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
* Every knee shall bow, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord! *
stever@tv.tv.Tek.com                                   [phone (503) 627-1320]

Newsgroups: or.politics
From: downsj@atlantis.CS.ORST.EDU (jason downs)
Newsgroups: or.politics
Subject: Re: new initiative
Date: 22 Jan 93 10:48:59 GMT
Article-I.D.: leela.1jojerINNfsp
Organization: spherical domain of death and darkness
NNTP-Posting-Host: atlantis.cs.orst.edu

In article <1993Jan21.051232.4426@qiclab.scn.rain.com>,
	Leonard.Erickson@f51.n105.z1.fidonet.org writes:
>Your religion analogy has a problem in that it *assumes* that sexual
>orientation is a choice. 

actually, it doesn't matter if it's a choice, or not. homosexuality is
a type of _behaviour_, and cannot be treated as the basis for a minority
class because of that fact.

>[...] Because if you say it *is* a choice, then you have
>to tell me when *you* "decided" to be heterosexual.

me? whom ever said i was heterosexual?

>[...] A lot of black kids have it harder than white kids
>because blacks are looked down on. Would you try to claim that it was
>wrong to teach that blacks are just as good as anybody else?

why, yes it is wrong to teach that black kids, specifically, are just as
good as anyone else. it should be taught that everyone is equal, without
using african-americans (or anyone else) as an example.

-- 
\-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-/
 \           - jason downs -           /\   - downsj@atlantis.CS.ORST.EDU -  /
 / zeppelin/amiga release 2/insane guy \/ led/vasudeva/lord of fear of death \
/-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-\
From: ssoar@tekig5.pen.tek.com (Steven E Soar)
Newsgroups: tek.forsale,or.forsale
Subject: *free* washer and dryer
Keywords: and they work!
Date: 25 Jan 93 18:23:44 GMT
Followup-To: poster
Distribution: pdx

subbject line says it all.  Free Washer and Dryer.

Radio-carbon dating shows these units to have been assembled in the early
jurassic era.  Plus the gum hardened on the inside of the dryer is a brand
favored by brontosauri. (and my son...)

Probably early 60's really.  They are extemely old, but do
work.  Washer is Maytag, 3 water temps, 3 water levels.  Dryer is Kenmore,
adjustable dry temp and time.  

Reason for replacement:  Washer agitates limpidly.  Dryer leaks lint all over
laundry room.  But for the price, perfect for a vacation cottage, or a student
setting up housekeeping

steve soar
206-254-8046 (H)
Newsgroups: or.forsale
From: frosty@world.std.com (Robert J Nunez)
Subject: Save $$ if you buy bottled water
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 01:44:29 GMT

I have 3 filters that remove chlorine and other substances from drinking
water to produce bottle-quality water.  These filters were used only long
enough to clean out the packing carbon to test them out.  Each does 10,000
gallons.  The price for each is $200 which works out to 2 cents a gallon
(compare to $1 average price for bottled water).

Email any responses or call me at 617-859-3152 in Massachusets (EST).

Robert Nunez
From: akagij@elcsci.com
Newsgroups: or.forsale
Subject: SNOWBOARD forsale
Date: 21 Jan 93 16:04:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: elcsci.1993Jan21.080426.1862
Distribution: or.forsale
Organization: Electro Scientific Industries, Portland OR



                       FOR SALE

        KEMPER SNOWBOARD  150   W/ SOFT BINDINGS
        
           USED 4 TIMES..                225.00 OBO

                              CALL JOHN  666-3117
                                       OR 671-5492

                         EMAIL AKAGIJ@ELCSCI.COM
From: weedk@pogo.wv.tek.com (Kirk Weedman)
Newsgroups: or.forsale
Subject: IBM PC stuff
Date: 27 Jan 93 21:37:33 GMT
Organization: Tektronix Inc., Beaverton, Or.

2 CGA graphics cards - woring - $8 each.
360K floppy disk drive $10.
Floppy disk controller card $10.
All items in good working order. 503-685-3171 Kirk
Newsgroups: or.forsale
From: mjohnson@pdx.mentorg.com (Mark Johnson)
Subject: Restoration Project Jeep for Sale
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 03:36:03 GMT
Distribution: pnw
Organization: Mentor Graphics
Keywords:  1952 M38 Jeep
Followup-To: 



Restoration project jeep for sale


	1952 M38 Military Jeep

Includes:

	-"New in the cosmoline" military Power Take Off unit
	-New Rancho Springs
	-Military "Artic" aluminum hardtop
	-All 24 Volt electrical parts
	-Full set of service manuals, including:
		-Jeep Universal Service Manual
		-Army: Powertrain, Body and Frame
		-Army: Operation and Organizational Maintenance
		-Army: Organizational Repair Parts and 
			Special tools
		-Army: Engine and Clutch
		-Army: List of All Service Parts

Condition:
	-Frame restored, undercoated
	-Body tub restored, primered and undercoated
	-Rest of body needs to be restored
	-Mechanically needs restoration

Price:
	-$775 or let's talk

I bought this jeep for parts a number of years
ago to use in restoring another jeep I own.  I
haven't gotten started yet, and it's time to
get my garage back!

Give me a call or send e-mail.

Regards, Mark.


-- 
                Mark A. Johnson    --    Mentor Graphics Corp.
       mark_johnson@mentorg.com          8005 S.W. Boeckman Road
                  (503)685-1321          Wilsonville, OR 97070-7777
                                         
Newsgroups: or.forsale
From: michaelf@psg.com (Michael Fetzer)
Subject: Oriental Rugs
Organization: Pacific Systems Group, Portland Oregon US
Distribution: or
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 02:37:25 GMT

A friend has some Oriental Rugs for sale, Afghan and Pakistani, apparently. If
anyone's interested:

Baluchi and Herat authentic hand knotted, wool. Most are red, a couple blue
and red (he as around 10), average size 4x2. Between $170 and $220. You'll
find similar rugs at Attiyeh Bros. for 4 times the price.

Please contact:

Naveed Ali
(503) 645-7591

He's willing to send snapshots, or if reasonable local, drop by to show them
off.

-- 
michaelf@psg.com       uunet!m2xenix!michaelf
From: jason@hpcvxjts.cv.hp.com (Jason Su)
Newsgroups: or.forsale
Subject: WANTED: SHOP MANUAL for '88 Fiero GT
Date: 21 Jan 93 17:45:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: hpcvusn.1993Jan21.174500.6579
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA

Perhaps you've sold or junked your Fiero...

I'm looking for a shop manual for an '88 Fiero GT (6cyl).  I'm willing to
travel or pay postage to pick it up.

			-Jay Su
			jason@cv.hp.com
			(503) 750-4101
From: robin@ssd.intel.com (Robin Rands)
Newsgroups: or.forsale
Subject: Datsun Roadster 1600 for sale
Date: 25 Jan 93 21:58:17 GMT
Article-I.D.: SSD.C1FJp5.B96
Organization: Supercomputer Systems Divison, Intel Corp.

FOR SALE:	

1968 Datsun Roadster 1600
Beautiful red classic; restored/rebuilt
MUST SELL! Sacrifice $3200.00
(503) 649-6603
robin@ssd.intel.com


Keywords:Datsun, Roadster 
Newsgroups: or.forsale
From: robertp@spot.tv.tek.com (Bob Proebstel)
Subject: Moving Sale
Originator: robertp@spot
Keywords: Moving
Organization: Tektronix, Inc.  Beaverton, Oregon
Distribution: pdx
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 21:47:08 GMT

	Moving Sale on January 30th and 31st
	3480 SW 86th
	West Slope

	Items include:
	
	Nice Wheel Chair
	Stereo Gear
	
	Just a whole lot of stuff.


Xref: sparky or.forsale:2292 pdx.forsale:3609 pnw.forsale:2640 misc.forsale.computers.other:1789
From: jerryh@tekig7.PEN.TEK.COM (Jerry S Harris)
Newsgroups: tek.forsale,or.forsale,pdx.forsale,pnw.forsale,misc.forsale.computers.other
Subject: Paradox 4.0, Borland C++ 3.1 for sale
Keywords: software for sale
Date: 23 Jan 93 06:32:46 GMT
Followup-To: poster
Distribution: pnw
Organization: Tektronix Inc., Beaverton, Or.

PARADOX 4.0, BORLAND C++ 3.1 NEW, UNOPENED, FOR SALE.  WILL SELL IN 
RESPONSE TO REASONABLE OFFER...WELL BELOW ANY RETAIL OR WHOLESALE.
CALL JERRY, WEEKDAYS AT 503-629-4068, EVES./WEEKENDS AT 503-292-4268
From: sabbagh@eecs.cs.pdx.edu
Newsgroups: or.forsale
Subject: 486DX 33 MHZ + 120MB + 4MB Ram + SVGA monitor + Software
Date: 27 Jan 93 01:33:20 GMT
Article-I.D.: pdxgate.6760


                     
			486DX33 Computer For Sale




486DX33 MHZ with math co-processor.

64KB External Cache.

120 MB IDE Hard Disk 16ms 3.5".

4 MB memory 70ns expandable to 32MB.

14" 1024 X 768 SVGA Color Monitor.

SVGA video card with 512KB video memory.

1.2 MB 5.25" Floppy Drive.

Mini-tower case with 200 watt power supply.

101 Enhanced Keyboard.


PLUS the Following Software:

Word Processing Program.
Utility Programs.
Graphics Programs.

Lots of Games:
Efalcon flying F15
LHX flying a Helicopters.
POOL
Chess animated

All this for $1295 Plus shipping.

If interested Please E-mail at 

sabbagh@eecs.ee.pdx.edu

or call at 503-2344616
From: steveh@amadeus.wr.tek.com (Steve Huss)
Newsgroups: or.forsale,tek.forsale
Subject: Trampoline and Kitchenaid attachments
Date: 22 Jan 93 18:51:05 GMT
Followup-To: or.forsale
Distribution: or
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton,  OR.





Exercise trampoline (3.5' diameter)...$10.00

Call for details on the mixer attachments.
From: tcox@ssrl01.slac.stanford.edu (Tony Cox - (415)926-3105)
Newsgroups: vmsnet.alpha
Subject: User-written device drivers on Alpha/VMS
Date: 26 Jan 93 12:55:45 -0800
Organization: SSRL, Stanford Synchrotron Radiation Lab
NNTP-Posting-Host: ssrl01.slac.stanford.edu

Does anyone have any experience with user-written drivers on the Alpha?

I am hearing conflicting information on the availability of documentation
for user written drivers, and hope that someone in this news group can clarify
the situation.

A specific concern for me is porting my home grown pseudodriver. On VAX/VMS,
this driver processes a series of QIO's from application programs,
originally written to control a CAMAC serial highway driver. For compatibility
with existing systems, these applications cannot be rewritten. The QIO's
come down from the application specifying (in p1-p6) three buffers in 
user space. The driver locks these pages in memory, using the usual
exe$write/read/modify routines, and then passes the request off to a
user-written ACP using EXE$QIOACPPKT.
The ACP interprets the information (in this case, generating network requests
to uVAXIII systems running VAX/ELN), returns information and status into the
buffers in the requesting user process, and then completes the request
using COM$POST.

So this driver/ACP combination is relatively simple (no hardware access, except
via supported network drivers), but it _does_ do some things which I would have
thought would require some (possibly extensive) code changes when running on
the Alpha.

For example, the ACP uses system page table entries to map the original
user request.

Anyone done such a thing, or know about available documentation?

Thanks

Tony Cox, Stanford,CA
TCOX@SSRL01.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU(INet)	SSRL01::TCOX (HEPNet)
TCOX@SSRL750 (BitNet)
From: kreymer@fnsg01.fnal.gov (Art Kreymer)
Newsgroups: vmsnet.alpha
Subject: Re: Alpha speed on disk devices
Date: 22 Jan 1993 21:23:11 GMT
Organization: Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory, Batavia IL
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: fnsg01.fnal.gov
Keywords: FORTRAN,I/O,Alpha


    There was earlier discussion of I/O problems on some Alpha systems.
    Fortran unformatted I/O to disk seems to be somewhat slower than
    expected, and, surprisingly, is CPU limited. That is, the CPU is
    running at 100% utilization in USER mode while the I/O is in progress.

    The I/O problem is almost certainly related to the Fortran Compiler.
    Note the following timings, writing a 32,000 block (16 Mbyte) file
    composed of records of length 8000 words (32 Kbytes)

    Formatted writes and VESTed images use much less CPU than native
    unformatted writes. Implied I/O do loops suffer no or negative
    overhead.

    Elapsed    CPU    Method
      15         1.   UNFORMATTED  WRITE (1) DATA  (vested image from VAX)
      25.        1.   FORMATTED    WRITE (1,'(A32000)') CDATA
      20.       15.   UNFORMATTED  WRITE (1) DATA  (native image)
      15.       15.   UNFORMATTED  WRITE (1) (DATA(J),J=1,8000)

    Here's the test program:

          PROGRAM WRITE

          PARAMETER ( LEN = 8000 )
          INTEGER DATA ( LEN )
          CHARACTER*(4*LEN) CDATA
          EQUIVALENCE ( CDATA , DATA )

          DO I = 1 , LEN
             DATA(I) = I
          ENDDO

          OPEN ( 1 , FILE = 'TEST' ,
         +   STATUS = 'NEW' ,
         +   FORM = 'UNFORMATTED' ,    ! unformatted
    !     +   FORM = 'FORMATTED' ,     !   formatted
         +   RECL = 8000 ,             ! unformatted
    !     +   RECL = 32000 ,           ! formatted
         +   RECORDTYPE = 'VARIABLE' ,
         +   INITIALSIZE = 32 000 )

          DO I = 1 , 512
             WRITE (1)  DATA                 ! unformatted
    !        WRITE (1) (DATA(J),J=1,LEN)     ! unformatted implied do
    !         WRITE (1, '(A32000)' ) CDATA   !   formatted
          ENDDO

          WRITE (*,*) ' DONE '
          CLOSE (1)

          CALL EXIT
          STOP
          END
Newsgroups: vmsnet.alpha
From: pyron@skndiv.dseg.ti.com (Dillon Pyron)
Subject: Re: Convincing the management
Reply-To: pyron@skndiv.dseg.ti.com
Organization: TI/DSEG VAX Support
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 14:39:09 GMT


In article <1993Jan19.122854.22863@jyu.fi>, HOUGHTON@jylk.jyu.fi (DAVID HOUGHTON, LK) writes:
>We are hoping to obtain a DEC 3000/400 AXP but have to convince
>our management that this is going to be a good buy. There are
>those amongst us that would rather invest in SUN Microsystems.
>We already possess a VAX4000 and several SUNs, both systems
>support SAS/SPSX and a bunch of maths packages for graphics,
>simulation and optimisation.
>
>Has anyone out there had a similar task in convincing their
>management that 
>
>	a) Alpha is the way to go
>	b) Licencing/software costs are favourable
>	c) SUNs are not the way to go
>	d) OpenVMS is better than OSF
>	e) Support for application software is no problem
>
We've used the following arguments:
  1) Manhours investment in VMS  (over 300 manyears in one case)
  2) Conversion costs/downtime
  3) Performance advantage over SPARC 10 (significant)
  4) Pricing is much better
  5) You will not experience the grief of going to Solaris 2.0 (if you thought
     VMS 4.0 or VMS 5.0 were bad...)
  6) If the decision is made to run Unix or OSF, the AXP can.  The SPARC can't
     run VMS.
  7) VMS is compliant with all final POSIX specs (and in line with most of the
     preliminary ones).
  8) It's what I want  -  Well, this one doesn't work often   :-)

Good luck.
--
Dillon Pyron                      | The opinions expressed are those of the
TI/DSEG Lewisville VAX Support    | sender unless otherwise stated.
(214)462-3556 (when I'm here)     |
(214)492-4656 (when I'm home)     |"I wish I was dead" said Moxie.
pyron@skndiv.dseg.ti.com          |"May your every wish come true" replied Spam
PADI DM-54909                     |      _Bored of the Rings_

Newsgroups: vmsnet.alpha,comp.sys.dec