From: Dale McMillen <dmcmillen@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: alt.politics.greens
Date: 24 Jan 93 20:56 PST
Subject: Re: LAW SUITS, REMEDIES AND TOXICS
Nf-ID: #R:cdp:1678600109:cdp:1678600167:000:3086
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!dmcmillen    Jan 24 20:56:00 1993


}>>I don't think the Greens should be promoting political systems.
}>>They should be promoting toxic cleanups, pollution prevention,
}>>etc.
}>>
}>>Michael Spencer
}> 
}>Don't you think these are problems caused by the political system?
}>It sure is the political system which makes it difficult to find
}>solutions!
}> 
}>Dale
}
}No. 
 
Apparently you haven't had much experience in working with the
local, state and federal governments in promoting toxic cleanups,
pollution prevention, etc.
 
For example, our local county board members can stand up in public
and with a perfectly straight face claim that our local incinerator
meets all EPA specifications and that it doesn't emit any toxics,
when, in fact, it isn't even tested outside of specially prepared
"sample burns".
 
Also, the county is contractually bound to the incinerator company
to provide a set tonnage of garbage to the incinerator or they will
have to pay an extra service fee.  Talk about a disincentive for
recycling!  And, the county citizens continuously clammer for more
recycling.  Who signed the contract with the incinerator company?
Who convinced the county that they needed that capacity?  Who is
wasting the citizens money on polluting the environment?  It sure
isn't the local citizens!  These are the problems with the current
political system to which I am referring.
 
}The following countries have created much worse pollution problems
}than the West:
}	Communist Russia
}	Communist China
}	Semi-socialist India
}Please note that a lot of China's pollution problems were caused
}by Mao's attempts at local community self-sufficiency, eg
}back-yard iron furnaces. 
 
These comments are totally irrelevant to your original statement
that Greens should only concern themselves with toxic cleanup, etc.
After all that I have written how much I abhor totalitarian
governments, I can't understand why you imply that I would support
the actions of these regimes, especially China's Mao.
 
}Also note that India is being catastrophically de-forested by
}land hungry peasants.
}
} Micheal Spencer
 
There are a couple of points on this topic you seem to be ignoring.
 
The first is that modern agriculture and economics have forced many
of these peasants off the land or have put them in a frightfully
unsustainable position.  There has already been much discussion on
this point in this newsgroup.  As has also been noted, there are
solutions available to the peasants who remain on the land.  These
solutions include using solar technologies, especially solar ovens,
growing crops using organic and high intensity methods, and planting
fuel and wood crops for building and other needs.  Simply indicating
that this is occuring at present does not indicate that our modern
systems are preferable.  In fact, my guess would be that many of these
peasants are remaining on the land because their only other option,
urban squalor, is much, much worse.
 
The second point is that it is also the peasants, especially the
women, who are making the most valiant efforts to preserve and
replant the forests.
 
Dale