From: bruce@godzilla.swdc.stratus.com (Bruce Overby)
Newsgroups: ba.politics,ca.politics
Subject: Re: Carjackers/Citizens/Life/Guns/Bernhard Goetz
Date: 15 Dec 92 19:00:54 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc., San Jose, CA

In article <13602@optilink.COM> cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer) writes:
>In article <8632.19792@stratus.SWDC.Stratus.COM>, bruce@godzilla.swdc.stratus.com (Bruce Overby) writes:
>> In article <13505@optilink.COM> cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer) writes:
># #There have been at least four successful responses to car-jacking
># #that I am aware:
># #
># #1. In Florida, about two months ago, an FBI agent (off-duty) was
># #car-jacked.  He gave them the car, then gave him little pieces
># #of lead at high velocity.  Bye-bye carjackers.
># 
># Very eloquently stated. My question: Who cares?
>
>Anyone that would like to discourage thugs.
>

"Anyone"? Did you say "anyone"? Here, we have my first problem
with your post.

># #2. An article from the San Jose Mercury-News that appeared on the
># #firearms-politics list recently quoted a San Diego police officer
># #as saying that their problem with carjacking went way down after
># #a victim used a hunting knife on the carjacker.
># 
># Is this a recommendation?
>
>No.  A statement of fact.

If I want facts, I'll read the newspaper. If I want Clayton
Cramer's opinions, I'll read every second or third post in
ca.politics. Are you telling me there is *no* opinion to be
implied by this "fact"?

>
># #3. This week, the Santa Rosa Press-Democrat carried an article
># #about a Sacramento man (over 60) who, when confronted by three
># #carjackers, kicked one in the groin, took the gun away from the
># #second carjacker, at which point, the three took off in fear for
># #their lives.  Aren't you heart-broken?
># 
># Again, are you recommending that carjacking victims over 60
># take on the carjackers?
>
>NO.  But I am pointing out that even under absurd conditions,
>it's not all on the side of the carjackers.
>

All caps on the "NO" I see. How come?

># #4. A carjacking in San Francisco in the last week or so was
># #foiled because the car jackers didn't notice the teenagers in
># #the back seat.  One used a soda can across the windpipe of the
># #driver.
># 
># Wonderful graphic violence, Clayton. Is this alt.movies.clint?
># Do you have a point here? Do you have an intelligible response
># to Mr. Zurschmeide's comments? (In case you've forgotten, he
># was advocating freedom for would-be victims of carjacking who
># happen to kill the would-be carjackers. Sorry I didn't repost,
># but I'm concerned I've already entered the realm of bandwidth
># waste by reposting your paragraphs above.)
>
>I had an intelligent response, but you chose to delete it.

Oh, that must have been the three lines or so about the Time
magazine quote. Sorry, I thought it was just your trademark
stab at your precious "liberal" media. My mistake. (Just a
suggestion, but do you think you could maybe sqeeze more than
three intelligent lines into your next hundred-line post?
Just a thought.)

>
># Is Rambo hysteria all you can come up with?
>
>Rambo hysteria?  For recounting some recent incidents where
>carjackers have not been successful?
>

"Recounting" would not include tidbits like "little pieces of
lead at high velocity" and "Aren't you heart-broken?" These are
hysteria-promoting rhetoric. (Weak rhetoric, I admit, but
rhetoric nonetheless.)

># What if I were to answer your post with: "Not everybody
># masturbates in front of Dirty Harry movies." This, like
># your post, would:
># - be a factual statement
># - be loosely related to the topic at hand
># - perhaps promote hysteria among some readers
># - add nothing to the discourse
># 
># Bruce Overby
>
>There are people who masturbate in front of Dirty Harry movies?

Bingo. If you'll read the quote again, you'll see that this is
not what it *says* but rather what it *implies*--a lot like
your little anecdotes above. They don't say it, but they
imply (rather strongly, in my opinion) that if only we poor
slobs out there would resist these carjackers, then we could
eventually stop them from persisting in this menace. This
could get people not qualified in the use of weapons hurt or
killed.

>This is a really depraved society -- or perhaps it's just Mr.
>Overby's friends in the back row of the theater.

Huh? Oh, this is a joke, right? Oh, NOW I get it. HA, Ha, ha.

ha.

-------------------------------------------------
Bruce Overby
Stratus Computer, Inc.
San Jose, CA


"Get at dem beans!"  -- Hoss Cartwright

My opinions may not reflect those of my employer.
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