From: dhoberma@pearl.tufts.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Doc Kromm's hi Stat vs hi Experience
Date: 16 Oct 92 05:11:44 GMT
Organization: Tufts University - Medford, MA


I really like your proposed solution to the, high skill defaults from
very high DX/IQ, problem.  This is the best solution I've seen.
I'll run it past my players and see what they think.  I especially
like the way it only effects contests BETWEEN two people, as in feints.

I'm reposting it in its entirety so that the folks in r.g.f.misc can read
it and comment.

Regards,
Randy
--
Randy M. Roberts
rmr@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu

In article <07OCT92.18494704.0067@VM1.MCGILL.CA> CX6L@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA (CX6L000) writes:
]There was talk (and a lot of flames :) on the game vs. reality
]simulation thread, regarding high attribute levels in GURPS,
]whether they really exist, and what, if anything, they represent.
]I do not plan to add to this, but a comment made by one of the
]writers intrigued me. In effect, he was doubting the validity
]of high DX and IQ in GURPS on the basis that many skills are
]based on these. If many experts in one of these skills truly
]possess a really high underlying stat which the skill is based
]on, then why are there not more folks noted for their expertise
]in multiple fields?
]     Related to the high stats problem is the old issue of
]optimization in GURPS as a result of the skill system. Why
]have a DX of 12 and pay dozens of points for, say, ten good
]physical skills? Why not just buy a high DX, save a lot of
]points, and still have the high skill levels?
]     GURPS, as it stands, provides no sure-fire solution to
]either problem, short of GM intervention. I offer an alternative.
]This is being composed at the keyboard, and has never been play-
]tested, so there are bound to be holes. Here goes...
]
]When a character buys a skill, do not just record the final level,
]but also where it stands relative to the underlying stat. Then,
]in any situation where the skill is directly contested by a
]skill of another character, apply these numbers as modifiers to
]the skill level. This would not apply to simple "use" rolls of
]the skill: just contests. The reason: a person who has a skill
]at a level equal to their stat plus a large number has a lot
]of points invested in the skill. These translate into hours of
]study in a linear manner. Under this system, a well-studied and
]experienced character can get an edge over a "natural" who has
]a high stat but who has only spent an afternoon practicing.
]This means that optimizers are suddenly faced with a dilemma:
]buy high stats, and get high skills for a half point each,
]and be at a disadvantage in contests, or be very skilled due
]to training (points in the skill), and have an edge.
]
]An example, to show how this all works:
]
]1.Professor Brainoid has an IQ of 17. He spends a half point on
]the Gambling skill (M/A), and gets it at 15. Under this system,
]he records this as, say, Gambling-15(-2), the -2 meaning he has
]the skill at IQ-2.
]
]2.Jack Weasel, the long time swindler, is only IQ 12. After all,
]if he were a genius, why would he be doing two-bit cons? He's
]spent 20 years gambling off and on. He therefore puts 4 points into
]Gambling, and gets it at 13. He records this as Gambling-13(+1),
]the +1 meaning he has the skill at IQ+1.
]
]If the Professor or Jack simply plays against a machine, or
]is rolling against Gambling to remember how to calculate
]odds, or to simply remember a rule by rote, they roll against
]their skills: 15 for the Prof, 13 for Jack. The Prof's
]superior memory and logical thought processes help him here.
]
]However, if Jack challenges the Prof to a game, and the GM
]simply says "Roll a Quick Contest of Skills", the Prof
]rolls at 15 - 2 = 13, while Jack rolls at 13 + 1 = 14. This
]shows that Jack's superior experience (ie, 8 times the
]number of points -> 8 times the hours of experience)
]will help him.
]
]      Under the official system, Jack would have a two-
]point disadvantage w.r.t to the Prof, not a one point edge.
]Under the new system, it does not, hence, pay as much to
]optimize, and characters who take realistic attribute
]levels have an edge as a result of having a lot of points
]in skills.
]     As I envisage it, this would apply to all skill-vs-skill
]contests between characters. This would mean that Feints
]would suddenly become far more useful to skilled fighters,
]and perhaps people would use them more...
]
]Comments?
]
]______________________________________________________________________
]|      From the Most Holy Keyboard of:                               |
]|      Dr Manfred Kromm, Reverend of the Temple of the Squid God,    |
]|      Professor of Quantum Parapsychology.                          |
]|____________________________________________________________________|
]|           )                               "This won't hurt a bit.  |
]|  |========|OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO>------      Afterwards . . . you'll |
]|           )                                see things MY way!"     |
]|____________________________________________________________________|

Dr Kromm!

	I liked your idea too. But my question is what about where it is not
a direct contest of skills between two people? For something like a piloting
roll for example, based off DEX.
	The veteran pilot with a DX of 12 and spends 2 pts to bring the m/a
skill to 12.
	The hotshot young pilot with a DX of 14 spends 2 pts to bring the
m/a skill to 14 (whereas the vet would have to spend 6! more points to get
	to the same level.)
	Somehow I believe that a vet pilot with more experience would be
better than a rookie pilot with only a few months flight time.
	Any suggestions for this situation?

	Dobie
	dhoberma@pearl.tufts.edu