From: 925wardell@gw.wmich.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Oh my God! Help my friend not buy an IBM!
Date: 22 Nov 92 15:23:58 EST
Organization: Western Michigan University

In article <1992Nov21.052433.13414@cs.uow.edu.au>, u9148043@cs.uow.edu.au (Justin Jay Lister) writes:
> x90wardell@gw.wmich.edu writes:
> 
>>In article <1992Nov11.112204.11012@mercury.unt.edu>, west@ponder.csci.unt.edu (Bruce West) writes:
>>> In article <1992Nov10.110930.6270@gw.wmich.edu> x90wardell@gw.wmich.edu writes:
> 
>>	Listen, I will try to put it in simple terms so that you do not
>>get confused.  I said I had not seen an Amiga 3000 that had animation
>>that would blow me away.  I have used plenty of Amiga 3000s.  I had an
>>Amiga.  I had an Amiga until I found that I needed a real comptuer to get
> 
> And amiga is not real computer thanx for the info (NOT).
> 
>>some real work done.  The Amiga was good for playing video games on or
>>using some of the lamo word processors for it for somall papers.  But
>>when college came, I needed a computer that had some engineering software
> 
> Gee college ohh no my amiga better go now, I don't know how I do without 
> your PC.
> 
>>like IPLS for coding intel chips and Altara for coding chips and an
>>easily accessible version of spice (the Amiga version sucks).  for your
>>information, I work at a company that sells IBMs and sells Amiga hardware
> 
> Yeah and amiga is gonna support INTEL chips hahahahah. You have a job that
> is one thing I don't have 8( (can I have it ?? )
> 

	Someday when you grow up and learn a little more about hardware
(maybe) you will find that motorola and intel make more than just
68000 class and 80x86 class processors.  I was not speaking of working
with the 386.  I needed a computer that supported software for programming
intel, Ti, and motorola chips but primarily intel.


>>(hard drives, ks20 chips, etc.) I haven't seen an Amiga 4000, I admit it
>>but it wasn't out when moved to the PC platform but it still doesn't
>>change the fact that there is very little software for the Amiga and
>>getting it is often an ordeal.  Throw away your pirated stuff for a moment
>>and tell me how much software you would really have?  
> 
> Nah
> 
>>	Furthermore, I needed bulletproof software and my IBM compatible
>>PRE-EMPTIVELY multitasks in a protected Os unlike the Amiga which is
>>not only protected but a great deal of the software actually takes over.
>>For doing 3d modeling, I need to be able to do in in the background such
>>that I can still be doing my program compiling and other tasks at near
>>full speed.  The Amiga 3000 just doesn't do that as well.  And, as I said, the
> 
> And you know claim to know lots about OS's anybody knows you can't do more
> without slowdown of system. You are loading the system with 2 processes and 
> have to take account of context switches, and other sys related overheads,
> (besides the 500 can compile and run a raytrace - sure you need an accl)
> but you dont wanna try comparing a 68k to a 486 do you, this is where it
> becomes amusing our little 500 with an 040 makes your os/2 pc seem like 
> silly putty.
> 
	That is not necesarily true.  You will only get a slow down
if one of the processes is stressing the CPU and or co-processors to
their max.  If you are running (for example) word perfect and all it is
doing it spooling it and your other task is say playing a video game you
are not going to get a slow down on a preemptive multitasking system such
as the Amiga or OS/2 because neither process is using that much CPU
(depending on the system).  Say I am playing Power Monger, you can play
that at the same speed on an Amiga 500 as an Amiga 3000 (if you set it
up correctly).  Now that game is using a lot more of the processor on
the 500 than the 3000 so there are more resources left to the 3000 to
do other tasks.  On OS/2, it is the same thing, if I load 50 sessions
of targa ray tracing in the background and format all my hard drives
and try playing powermonger then I will notice a small slowdown.  If I
keep adding more processes it will slow down more.  But in general, on
my 486 (or high end amiga) every day usage will not show much slow down
if you are just running a few background processes.
	As for our "silly putty" 486's, At least my software still runs
under os/2.  with you 040 accel on the Amiga 500 a good chunk of your
software won't run right.  If it does, then mention the name brand of
your accelerator.  Every one I have used causes quite a bit of my software
to either no longer run or run too fast.  You should learn a  bit about
other Os's before you go and put them down.



> you think OS/2 is faster in switching processes (I think not), OS/2 isn't a
> real time OS - ha that is what you get for having an OS that has to have
> virtual mem going! (ohhhh those disc access are a pain shame i can't jump in
> right now) And create screen support it has no layering of the screens like the
> amiga sys. And such speed at which you can switch between (hmm meet the mac 
> multifinder hheheh) I can hold the left mousebutton and press the right fast
> and swap between 10 apps that are currently running. And I have only 9 meg 8(
> 
	Hahaha, here's a guy that has never used OS/2 only read of it.  I
can switch between processes just as fast as you can.  the only difference,
when I run out of "real memory" I can still load more.  You, on the other
hand, can't.


>>4000 wasn't available at the time.  You accuse me of not researching
>>my computer, and then make ignorant statements like "PCs can't preemptively
>>multitask -- period."  Try os/2 2.0.
> Hahah and have to wait for the disc nah..
> 
>>>     I carefully researched my choice of computers and am not a mindless
>>> Amiga follower.  But I will say Mac went out the window right away - an
> 
> Hope I don't get called mindless 8) Moneyless but being a student has things
> to do with that.
> 
>>> OS in which you can't type, 'nuff said.  And IBM simply couldn't measure
>>> up.  I'm a CS student with a serious interest in graphics.  With my Amiga
>>> I can enjoy a cheap, fast, multitasking environment with some nice base
>>> graphics and sound and great multimedia and presentation software.  Awesome
>>> support for programmers.  And if I ever get into real serious graphics I can
>>> get a card to make my Amiga look like an Silicon Graphics Iris - or if I
>>> get into the video end I can get a toaster for about the same price.  Now
>>> THAT is what I call open options - *and* being happy along the way.
>>> 
>>	Then you made the right choice.  The Amiga is BETTER for doing
>>graphics cheaply than a PC.  A 7mhz amiga can do graphics animation as
>>well as a high end IBM PC and the Amiga costs less.  
>>	I too needed a good programming environment and OS/2 provided
>>it but I also needed easy access to chip encoding programmers, altara,
>>ipls, and 2d/3d modeling.
> 
> Only thing I see here is the chip encoding programmers but I am sure if you
> looked there would be some. God most of the amiga people are hardware guys.
> 
	I have never met an EE or CE whose personal choice of machine
was an Amiga.  Most Amiga owners belong to gamers or CS people.  I am
sure that if I looked hard enough I could find an amiga version of most
of the things I need.  Spice, for example, can be found if you look hard
enough.  But I don't have time to search every FTP sight, every pirate
board in the world to find a simple program that runs justa s well on a
PC.



> [Amiga history deleted]
> 
>>to a PC.  So I got a 386 with windows and was marginally happy with it
> ^^^^^^^^ biggest mistake should keep the amiga and have both!

	Couldn't afford it.  I will one day have an Amiga and a PC.

>>but missed the multitasking.  A few months later, I put in a 486
>>motherboard and 16 megs of memory and a 24bit coprocessed grahics card
>>and now I am very happy with it (now that I have os/2).
> 
> As long as you are happy that is what it is all about!
> 
>>	So I wouldn't exactly chime that I didn't think about my hardware
>>platforms.
> One could argue, but it is ultimately your choice. I aint on -MB- 8)
>>						-Brad
> 
> Till next time 
> -- 
> |.####...#....#..######.| Amiga 2000 HD 120+9Meg  &  Amiga 500              |
> |.#...#..#....#..#......|   email:  u9148043@cs.uow.edu.au                  |
> |.####...#....#..###....| OS/2 - If your happy with half and OS fine with me|
> |.#...#...####...#......| He who rides the tiger can never dismount         |