HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Dan Yurman <dyurman@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Date: 16 Aug 92 17:11 PDT
Subject: Home Movie of Wolf?
Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1449600022:000:2416
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!dyurman    Aug 16 17:11:00 1992


Wednesday the Idaho Falls, Idaho, Post Register, a daily
newspaper reported that the National Park Service had received a
reel of 8 mm film from a tourist which may, or may not, show a
wolve eating an elk inside Yellowstone Park.  Officially, the
Park Service has NOT confirmed that the film shows a wolf.
 
The wolf lookout business has taken on some of the aspects of
crop circles in England or fly saucers in New Mexico.  Wolves
have been spotted in Montana at locations as close to 60 miles
north of Yellowstone National Park.  So, while it is plausible
that a wolf or a wolf pack have moved into the park, it is not
yet proven.
 
The local controversy is whether wolves should be reintroduced to
the park as part of a program to lessen their status as
endangered species.  Landowners living around the park are
concerned the wolves will eat livestock rather than elk, deer, or
whatever is nearby inside the park.  As you know, wolves cannot
read park boundary signs and eat what's handy when hungry.  A
program to compensate local land owners for the wolfing down of
their livestock may decrease local opposition to the plan.
 
The wolf problem is not the only endangered species issue
affecting the park and surrounding landowners. Readers of this
list may also be aware that if buffalo from inside the park leave
it they are shot on sight by Federal wildlife staff to prevent
them from coming in contact with livestock.  The buffalo are
carriers of diseases which affect the livestock.
 
The larger political question is that if endangered species are
introduced into a Federal park, what happens if some other
endangered species is introduced into ancient forests thus taking
them off limits to logging, e.g. in Oregon and Washington. As you
may know the current Administration does not have a good track
record for dealing well with environmental issues.
 
For instance, when Sec. of Interior M. Lugan floated the South
Fork of the Snake River to personally view special protection
measures for it a few years ago he fell asleep.  When he woke up
he thought he was in Oregon.  Actually, he'd only bobbed down
river from Swan Valley a few miles, but that's another story.
 
----------------------------------------------------------
Dan Yurman            | dyurman@igc.apc.org      | 43N30
PO Box 1569           | dyurman%igc.org@stanford | 112W01
Idaho Falls, ID 83403 | MCI Mail: 364-1277       | -7 GMT
 

From: andyt@hpmwtd.sr.hp.com (Andy Teetzel)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 22:53:35 GMT
Subject: Re: Re: Moose vs Elk
Organization: HP Santa Rosa Site (NMD MTA MWTD)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry



Is wapati pronounced "wah-PEE-tee" or "wah-pah-TEE"?


Always been curious.


Andy Teetzel           |  andyt@hpmwmkt2.HP.COM     | 
Hewlett-Packard        |                            | 
Microwave Tech. Div.   |  -Disclaimer, standard,    |
Santa Rosa, CA         |   one each                 |  
                       |                            |
From: rhaar@albert.cs.gmr.com (Bob Haar)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Moose & Elk
Date: 18 Aug 92 16:52:44 GMT
Reply-To: rhaar@albert.cs.gmr.com
Organization: G.M. Research Labs

In article 24951@uvm.edu, geraghty@emba-news.uvm.edu.UUCP (Kevin M Geraghty) writes:
|>From article <1992Aug18.090819.16139@bernina.ethz.ch>, by eman@niepce.foto.lpc.ethz.ch (Eric Maniloff x4440):
|>> Big question here!  What is the difference between a moose & an elk?
|>> 

quite a few pounds  (:-)

|>> Is there a difference?  I thought that moose were expanded versions of elk,
|>> 
|>
|>What europeans call "elk" is what North Americans call "moose": a
|>large ungainly northern animal with palmate antlers.  In north
|>American usage, "elk" refers to another large deer somewhat like 
|>a European red deer.  
|>

The North AMerican elk are more correctly called by the Indian name
wapiti - at least that is what a naturalist at RMNP told us.

---
	Robert Haar               InterNet : rhaar@gmr.com 
	Computer Science Dept., G.M. Research Laboratories
DISCLAIMER: Unless indicated otherwise, everything in this note is
personal opinion, not an official statement of General Motors Corp.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: Glenn Stauffer <stauffer@cc.swarthmore.edu>
Subject: Re: Moose & Elk
X-Xxmessage-Id: <A6BB337BBD064333@mac1.beardsley.swarthmore.edu>
X-Xxdate: Fri, 21 Aug 92 04:57:47 GMT
Organization: Swarthmore College Computing Center
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d9
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 03:58:15 GMT

In article <14160@auspex-gw.auspex.com> John Fereira, johnf@Auspex.COM
writes:
>|noses and pointy antlers. Moose are like furry semi trailers on stilts,
with

They sure pack a punch like a semi-trailer when you hit one with your
car.  Just ask your
friendly Quebecois as he drives home from Old Orchard Beach.
From: gascan@dcst16.dc (Bill Gascoyne)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: accessible = !wilderness
Date: 20 Aug 92 17:47:50 GMT
Reply-To: gascan@dcst16.dc
Organization: LSI Logic Corporation

In article 3GF@news.dtc.hp.com, chris@cdc.hp.com (Chris Schiller) writes:
>
>If there were not fences, then the deer could expand/migrate as
>needed.  In addition, if all of the predators had not been destroyed
>or fenced out, there would never have been a "problem".  As usual,
>man the controller is bad.
>
>Chris Schiller
>chris@cdc.hp.com

Great!  Let's just kill all those nasty humans screwing up the planet; they're
obviously evil incarnate!  Who first? 

:-)

---
1. Bill Gascoyne
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: grady@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Mike Grady)
Subject: Nalgene bottle lids (need source)
Summary: want to obtain several caps for Nalgene bottles
Keywords: nalgene bottle lids 
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 14:49:38 GMT

I have cracked several Nalgene bottle lids (tightening too much, I guess),
and would like to obtain some replacements (the bottles are in fine shape).
Does anyone know of a source for ordering just the lids, or have a phone
number for the Nalgene company? Thanks in advance.
-------
Michael Grady,  Univ. of Illinois Computing & Communications Services Office
Internet: mike-grady@uiuc.edu    phone:  (217) 244-1253
Bitnet:   grady@uiucvmd          fax:    (217) 244-7089
-- 
Michael Grady,  Univ. of Illinois Computing & Communications Services Office
Internet: mike-grady@uiuc.edu    phone:  (217) 244-1253
Bitnet:   grady@uiucvmd          fax:    (217) 244-7089
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,tek.general
From: Jan Blair <janbl@mesaadm.cre.nt.com>
Subject: Re: Insect repellent
Organization: NTI
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1b3
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 13:31:33 GMT

In article <6482@tekig7.PEN.TEK.COM> John F Stoops,
johnst@tekig6.PEN.TEK.COM writes:
>My son and I are about to go on our annual backpack trip on Ranier. 
Last year
>at Mowich Lake, the mosquitos were ferocious!  The regular insect
repellents
>helped some but I'd like something more effective.  I have heard that
Avon's
>"Skin So Soft" is a great bug repellent.  When I looked in my wife's Avon
>catalog, there were at least 6 different "Skin So Soft" products - bath
oil,
>body lotion, etc.  Can anybody tell me which of these is the right one
to use
>as bug repellent?  Also - has anybody had any experience with this stuff
- is
>it really effective?  Or do you know of a really effective brand of
insect
>repellent?
>     Please reply by e-mail.


Can't reply by e-mail, but maybe you'll get this posting.  Water down the
Skin-So-Soft bath oil if you are intent on using it and it works for you.
Three parts water, one part oil is OK.  Avon also offers an after bath
towlette that is easier to pack, and slightly less concentrated than the
oil.  I have had more success with a homeopathic (read: expensive) goo
called Sting Stop.  A light coating of this (best if applied to damp
skin) seems to work well. The Sting Stop also works "apres bite" to
relieve the itch.  If it's unbearable, the best response is to limit the
amount of skin exposed with long sleeves and a head net. You have to
weigh the disadvantages of this given the temperature.  Good luck.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: ddavidso@nyx.cs.du.edu (Durwood Davidson)
Subject: Re: Oregon Wallowas...pack animals
Summary: Just a short flame - skip this one folks.
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 22:00:46 GMT

In article <22947@hacgate.SCG.HAC.COM> tucker@shiva.UUCP (George Tucker) writes:
>Back when I hiked with the Sierra Club one guy climbed Rattlesnake Peak in
>the San Gabes, probably 2000 ft gain, on crutches.  Then there was the fellow
>with bulging stomach doing an impressive 5.7 pitch.  A lot of people
>out there were born before WWI was over, over there.  I have seen some
>plump or just plain lazy ones on pack animals, but nobody who would need
>a wheelchair.  That "access for the physically disabled" stuff is bogus.
>

   Whoa!  I don't think you know what you're talking about George.  
(Warning: sob story follows).  My wife and I were climbing 13ers 6
years ago searching for Lapis Lazulis.  Now, due to her MS, she is
happy to walk to the post office and back - 30 minutes total.  Since
she used to ride horses competitively (jumping) and loves getting into
the woods, I don't think her wanting to ride a horse into the 
backcountry is bogus.
   I can also send you a brochure on Wilderness On Wheels, a company
here in Colorado that provides wilderness experiences for people in
wheelchairs.  They've been around for 3 years now so someone must be
using their services.
   The next time you want to support your arguments, please don't dump
on those less fortunate than you.  And have your facts straight too.
From: gascan@dcst16.dc (Bill Gascoyne)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: WAS: Mono Pass...     BEARS! (Oh my!)
Date: 19 Aug 92 21:09:16 GMT
Reply-To: gascan@dcst16.dc
Organization: LSI Logic Corporation

In article 55771@olivea.atc.olivetti.com, donehoo@strobe.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Doyle Donehoo) writes:
>There is one story of one unusual bear that lived on grass near a popular 
>high altitude above tree-line campsite. He specialized on raiding that
>camp to sustain him, and ate lots of grass (a poor bear fodder)
>when camper food was not available. Grass was not enough to sustain
>him, but he was sucessful enough in his raids to get him by. (He
>was eventually destroyed). But this was a rare case.
>
Would this happen to be the cinnamon brown that hung out around Lake Reflection
(which is definitely above treeline) up until it was shot about a year or two ago?
If so, then I was one of it's victims.  The bad news about bears in the back 
country is that the park service takes the nastiest bears from the lowlands (where
they run into idiots who teach them that people=food) away from where lots of people
are to--guess where-- the high country where they prey on backpackers.

Thanks, guys! 

---
1. Bill Gascoyne
From: tucker@shiva.edsg.hac.com (George Tucker)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Oregon Wallowas
Keywords: alpine lakes - where?
Date: 20 Aug 92 20:23:01 GMT
Reply-To: tucker@shiva.UUCP (George Tucker)
Organization: Hughes Aircraft Co., El Segundo, CA

In article <133866@lll-winken.LLNL.GOV> dovey@renoir.llnl.gov (Donald Dovey) writes:
>In article <1992Aug19.001343.24761@sequent.com>, karlm@sequent.com (Karl
>Maerz) writes:
      (	>|> is the Maerz part.)
>|> sorry, couldn't help it).  Horses eat grass and/or hay and perhaps grain 
>|> and maybe some feed supplements.  They poop little balls which pile if
Deer poop little balls.  Horses poop BIG balls.

>|> an initial odor which is not excessively unpleasant to many people.  If it 
Ah, the smell of the great outdoors!  I have yet to find any hiker who finds
it pleasant or even nonoffensive.

>|> is strung out on a warm sunny day it will completely dry out in a few
>|> hours.  When dry, it has virtually no odor at all and the consistency of 
>|> finely chopped hay or grass (which makes sense, since that's what it is).  

Right, the horses just swallow the stuff and chop it up as a public service.
They derive their energy from sunlight, right?  Some days are not dry and
sunny.

Besides, the Forest Service seems to make trails to accomodate the horse
people.  Packer trails are generally full of little rocks that are a real
pain to hike.  Perhaps it's because they would destroy good trails.

>|> Try taking a whiff of horse crap as versus
>|> human or other meat-eater crap and believe me you'll prefer the horse doo.
>Agreed.  But humans rarely shit on the trail.

Only we vegetarians.  

	 George Tucker        tucker@tcville.hac.com
What is the world's largest government subsidy to agriculture,
terrorism, speedboat manufacturing, organized crime, and prison
construction?
From: johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Point to Ponder (Wolves in Yellowst
Date: 14 Aug 92 22:35:21 GMT
Organization: Auspex Systems, Inc.

In article <1449600017@igc.org> dyurman@igc.org (Dan Yurman) writes:
>
|THe problem of removing a predator from an ecosystem and thus
|condemning the species you are trying to save is well illustrated
|by the hunting of great white sharks off the California coast.
|This has resulted in the over population of seals ad sea lions,
|which are the prey of the sharks.
 
This become particularly annoying if you do any salmon fishing off the
coast.  I don't know how many times I've seen someone hook a nice salmon
and then have a sea lion come up and steal it from you.  Then they sit out
there and play with it by throwing it up in the air for awhile.   You might
also find an interesting fishing story in rec.outdoors.fishing that I 
wrote where a sea lion actually ended up in the boat of a friend of mine.

-- 
+============================================================================++
| John Fereira            "Is that all you ever think about?"                |
| johnf@auspex.com                                                           |
+============================================================================++
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: craig@phenix.cc.uregina.ca (Craig Knelsen)
Subject: Re: Frequency of Bear Encounters on Hiking Trails
Keywords: bears encounters hiking
Reply-To: craig@phenix.cc.uregina.ca (Craig Knelsen)
Organization: Does it matter?
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 23:33:48 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.160009.15442@csi.uottawa.ca> pete@aix1.uottawa.ca (Peter Hickey) writes:
>In article <1992Aug14.091635.3126@regina.cs.uregina.ca> craig@phenix.cc.uregina.ca (Craig Knelsen) writes:
>>
>>I have been reading this newsgroup for a few months and don't recall seeing
>>any posts about bear encounters on the hiking trails. Do people just not
>>bother with posting articles about bear encounters and how they dealt with it
>>or are encounters really that infrequent and of little interest to others?
>>I realize that bears are unpredictable and people don't generally relish the
>>thought (myself included) of encountering one in the backcountry. Yet, I
>>can't help wonder if the posting of such encounters may alleviate the
>>anxiety and fear some may have of going into the backcountry. Or is everyone
>>here seasoned backcountry travellers who wish to handle this kind of
>>situation in their own way?
>>
>
>We're all elitist bastards, and we know bears on a first name basis.

Oh, so you know Yogi and Booboo? :=)

>We don't consider them a threat, they're our friends.  When we see them,
>they know who we are and they leave us alone.

So you don't blink when you walk between a mother and her two cubs?

>
>(Sorry Craig...)

No prob, I got a chuckle out of it...
-- 

Craig Knelsen		craig@phenix.cc.uregina.ca
			Craig_Knelsen@f20.n140.z1.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: bcollins@utdallas.edu (Arlin B. Collins)
Subject: Re: Bear Identification
Keywords: bears
Organization: Univ. of Texas at Dallas
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 18:15:33 GMT

In article <scott.713899114@phylo> scott@phylo.life.uiuc.edu (Scott Howard) writes:
>Telling the difference between Black Bears and Grizzlies is very easy-
>   The highest point on a Grizz' body is its front shoulders, whereas
>   a black bear's head is its head.
>
>   A Grizz' toes point in, a black's point out.

    When a bear chases you, just climb a tree:
	 a BLACK bear will climb the tree to get you,
	 a GRIZZ bear will just knock the tree down to get you.    B-{)
-- 
Arlin B Collins     CompuServe:  INTERNET:bcollins@utdallas.edu   :-)
From: reimer@src.dec.com (Dean Reimer)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: When the bee stings.
Keywords: Old Remedy
Date: 12 Aug 92 17:52:42 GMT
Organization: DEC Systems Research Center

In article <1992Aug12.134825.14377@brtph560.bnr.ca>, Jan Blair <janbl@mesaadm.cre.nt.com> writes:
|> In article <equacken.713020595@cser> Eric Quackenbush,
|> equacken@cser.encore.com writes:
|> >What do you all use for bee stings and other painfull insect bites?
|> 
|> The reply regarding the histamine response is correct.  Benedryl should
|> be a part of your kit, but for general pain and itchiness, try Sting
|> Stop.  This homeopathic gel is available in health food/Earth stores. 
|> Old time remedies include chewing tobacco, ammonia, and urine.  Somehow
|> the Benedryl doesn't sound so bad now, huh?


The most basic old time remedy usually works just as well.  Mix some mud
up to the point of almost paste, almost watery, (some where in between).
Cover the sting with this mixture, and wait until it dries.  This drying
action draws out the toxins.

Dean



I went back to my boyhood town, and realized it wasn't the town I longed for.
It was my boyhood.......
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: misterl@athena.mit.edu (Lawrence P Lubowsky)
Subject: Re: Comments on Yellowstone
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 03:03:13 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.011237.8653@news.eng.convex.com> oexmann@convex.com (Carla Oexmann) writes:
>
>I just read a book by the Yellowstone Chief Ranger ( Scholly ?  something
>like that ).  He mentioned an experiment where they put heart monitors 
>on elk and watched as snowmobiles and xc skiers went by.  After the
>first part of the season, the monitors showed scarcely a blip when the
>snowmobilers went by, but skyrocketed when the skiers went by.
>
>Ritual disclaimer : My opinion and mine alone !  Convex, as best I can tell,
>doesn't have opinions, being a corporate entity...
>Carla Oexmann        {allegra, sun, harvard, uiucdcs, ctvax}!convex!oexmann
>Convex Computer Corp.  3000 Waterview Parkway P.O. Box 833851 Richardson, TX

"Guardians of Yellowstone" by Dan (and I'm also not sure of the
spelling of his last name) Scholly
That book is incredible.  I had a friend who worked for Morrow
Publishing in NYC.  She sent me a copy before it was out in the
stores.  

It deals largely with the fires that engulfed Yellowstone over the
past few years, but he also tells stories about bear attacks,
monkeywrenching, tourons (although he doesn't use the word), and the 
backcountry rangers.  I very much enjoyed the
book.  At the time, I was toying with the idea of becoming a ranger.
I traded this for the Peace Corps (an equally long and difficult
application process!).  

I highly recommend this book.  The author does a very good job of
presenting both sides of an argument.  It really enlightens you about
the difficulties of being the head ranger of a park like Yellowstone.

Larry
--
  Larry Lubowsky         | I'm looking for a job in the Boston area.
  misterl@athena.mit.edu | Computers, Bio-electrical Eng., Medicine
			 | MIT Graduate.  Ask me for my resume.
From: seb1@leia.dr.att.com (sharon badian)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Moose & Elk
Date: 19 Aug 92 19:23:35 GMT
Reply-To: seb1@druhi.att.com
Organization: Bell Labs, Denver, CO.

In article <7cc9023y1eQ301@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com>, jjh00@outs.ccc.amdahl.com (Joel J. Hanes) writes:
|> 
|>   rhaar@albert.cs.gmr.com writes (incorrectly):
|> >
|> > The North AMerican elk are more correctly called by the Indian name
|> > wapiti - at least that is what a naturalist at RMNP told us.
|> 
|> I hope you misunderstood.
|> 
|> Wapiti is the Native American name for the Pronghorn "Antelope",
|> a much smaller animal than Moose, American Elk, or European
|> Elk.   Wapiti have distinctive short vertical antlers with
|> sharp tips, and vivid rump patches.  American Elk have much
|> larger curved antlers, and the male has a heavy rough
|> shaggy coat about the neck and shoulders that bears no
|> resemblance to the sleek wapiti at any time of year.
|> 
|> Source: A Field Guide to the Mammals (of North America)
|>         RT Petersen Field Guide series

Well, all I can say is I'm very disappointed in that Petersen guide!
Every zoo I have ever been to that exhibits "American Elk" labels them
"Wapiti." Now, either the Bronx and Denver Zoo are wrong or Petersen
is mistaken. This time, I bet with the zoos. I have never seen pronghorn
referred to as wapiti only those big, shaggy deer we nearly ran into
every morning and evening along the highways near Banff!

-- 
Sharon Badian
AT&T Bell Labs - Denver
seb1@druhi.att.com
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry