From: kxs5829@ultb.isc.rit.edu (K.X. Saunders )
Subject: Re: Kyle - and Wing Chun in general
Originator: kxs5829@ultb
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 23:14:44 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.185418.22523@uwm.edu> ninjam@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Marty) writes:
>kxs5829@ultb.isc.rit.edu (K.X. Saunders ) says:
>Subject: Re: Wing Chun in general.
>
>
>>	If you are doing chi dan sau, single sticky hands, there is wrist and
>>some forearm contact.  If you are doing bong-lop rolling, then there is equal
>>amounts of wrist and forearm contact.
>
>Well, we were not talking about Chi Sao drills.  The rest of the

	I thought you were.

>>>yet).  A Tan Sao, Bon Sao, Garn Sao and many of the other defensive
>>>blocks are going to make a natural contact in the forearm area.
>
>>	The Tan Sau and Gaun Sau should be blocking with the wrist area, not
>>the forearm.
>
>Hardly.  While I will agree that the Gaun/Garn Sao makes a contact
>more in the wrist area, the Tan Sao by no means should be in the 
>wrist.  If it is then you are doing it at too low a level.
>The only time you make any type of wrist contact in a Tan Sao
>is in the initial contact, it hits the lower wrist area but
>slides down a little as you extend the Tan Sao.  And just
 [snip]
>considering the wrist area.  I consider the wrist the
>exact area where the hand is able to bend from the
>rest of the arm.

	I consider the wrist area to be an inch or two below the wrist joint.
Given that, we apparently do agree after all.

>>So of the defensive nature in Wing Chun, the contact for "sticking" will
>>be more of the forearm area.  As a contact area for the
>
>>	The contact for sticking will be the hands.
>
>Hardly.  The only times your hands are going to make contact are
>with the larp/lop sao.  Even a palm strike if you want to include
>that.  Most of the contact is going to be in that wrist/forearm
>overlap area.

	Not so.  The initial block will contact the wrist/forearm.  Punches,
grabs, and traps all use hand contact, at least in my school they do ;-).

>>>Huen Sao.  And you can use it in either direction around the
>>>arm, outside in or indside out.  Depends on what you want
>>>to accomplish and what the opponent is doing of course.
>>>Yah, sounds like your doing a Huen Sao into a larp sao
>>>or possibly pak sao.  I LOVE taking apart those overcommitied
>>>classical Karate and Kung Fu blocks like that.  Lot's of 
>>>fun. ;)
>
>>	Huh?  Huen Sau is used to trap using the back of the hand to create
>>a small opening to attack.
>
 [snip]
>That's why Huen Sao is supposed to mean Circling Wrist Block.  The 

	Quite right.  I was thinking of Guat Sau.

>>	Trade secrets?  Oh please.  You can tell anyone all you want about 
>>Wing Chun, but unless they diligently practice every day, it isn't going to do 
>>them any good.
>
>Contrary to opinion, information, even text describing information,
>even information about theories alone, can be usefull in many
>ways.  I've gone thru this with some friends that responded to
>this in e-mail and don't feel the need to go into it here.
>There are just some things that are privy to people in Wing Chun,
>just like there are some things privy to those in Aikido or 
>Kali or any other system you want to name.

	Well, that may be true, but I know that I haven't been in Wing Chun
long enough to know any of these privy things.  And I'm familiar with every-
thing that has been discussed so far, so I don't see where the "trade secret"
stuff come in.

>>	Is this attitude of "I've got something to hide in my Wing Chun" your
>>own or that of your school's?
>
>It's got nothing to do with that and frankly I'm amazed at this silly
>statement.  If I felt that way, then I wouldn't have even contributed
>in the thread and possibly even saved myself the trouble of this conversation
>with you that's obviously ready to turn into a flame war.
>But it is a general attitude in many martial arts that certain types
>of info is reserved for people in the art itself.  That's why

	I don't see reserved info coming into play until after several years.  
Everything that has been discussed about Wing Chun here someone can pick up,
and use, from a decent school in less than 6 months.

	- Kyle

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