HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: THAHARA@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu
Subject: Re: part 2 on another IIW's views on recent posts
Organization: Yale University
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 92 19:08:17 EDT

In article <46422@dime.cs.umass.edu>
dey@gaia.cs.umass.edu (Jayanta K. Dey) writes:
>
>In article <1992Apr10.175444.20234@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> uxa@po.CWRU.Edu (Unnati Amin) writes:
Just wanted to say that I enjoyed reading both the posts on this subject.
Both presented a very sober and realistic evaluation of the marriage scene
and the status of Indian women.I like the attitude (that others have also
voiced in this thread) of :"we weren't raised in the right kind of social
atmosphere, but lets make sure our children don't have the same problems".
 
However, I believe that it is never too late for people to change and it is
not that hard to live by one's principles.  Anyone (male or female) who
genuinely believes that men and women should live as equals should make an
honest attempt to live by that ideal.  It is difficult, and will involve a
lot of breaks with tradition that will raise eyebrows in the family, but
it is not as difficult or unpleasant as you might think.  In many respects, I
think the women have more influence over their own status in the family than
they think.  Even in an arranged marriage situation, it is not that difficult
for a woman to assert her equal status, particularly in this country.  Most
Indian men will agree (on the intellectual level) that women should be treated
with equal rights in the family.  The opposition comes in putting that into
practice.  Human beings generally do not like to give up privileges that they
have become used to, even though they may intellectually see that those
privileges are unfair.  Thus there is bound to be an attempt at resisting
(through mere inertia) any attempt to draw them into household and child-care
duties, or to make them share the decision-making powers of the family with
their wives.  Unless the wife firmly asserts her rights (at the cost of some
initial domestic friction) she is going to slip into a mold of becoming second
fiddle in the partnership.  This assertiveness must preferably come right from
the beginning of the marriage, so that a more equitable power-balance is
established from the beginning.  If this happens, I think a lot more Indian
men can be coaxed into paying more than lip service to the idea of equality in
marriage.  Of course, all this would be greatly facilitated if both the
husband and wife are approximately equally intelligent and educated, if both
are working, and if both are sesnsitive to each others' feelings.  If I were a
single IIW, I would make sure that before marrying someone (arranged or love),
I would make him agree at least in principle to the concept of equality.  If
the guy doesn't even agree in principle, then I would rule out marriage to
him.  Better to be single all my life and be my own boss than to take orders
the rest of my life from a husband, no matter how 'nice' he may otherwise be.
 
Harsh Thaker (an IIM husband of an IIW)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.iranian,soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.turkish
From: perwaiz@engrg.uwo.ca (Mr. Jamshed Perwaiz)
Subject: Return air ticket to LONDON,ENGLAND
Organization: University of Western Ontario, London
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 04:05:03 GMT
Originator: perwaiz@engrg.uwo.ca

AIR TICKET TO LONDON, ENGLAND.

FLY FROM TORONTO, OTTAWA, HALIFAX OR VANCOUVER.

male or female.  RETURN TICKET.

Can be used anytime before JULY 1, 1992

Contact me ASAP.
e-mail: perwaiz@engrg.uwo.ca
phone: 519-661-2111 ext 8314
FAX: 519-661-3020
thanks 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: murthy@ssd.dl.nec.com (Vasudev Murthy)
Subject: Buy in India or in the US?
Organization: NEC America, Switching Systems Division
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 20:05:02 GMT


Hi!
   I would like to know if there is any advantage in
   buying an airline ticket (for travel originating in
   India) in the US, in dollars, versus buying it in
   India. Is the price differential enough to justify
   the minor hassle of sending money to India? 

   Please e-mail responses - if there are enough, I
   will summarize and post.

   Thanks,
      Vasudev Murthy
-- 
Vasudev Murthy          Any opinions expressed are strictly  
murthy@ssd.dl.nec.com   my own  and have nothing to do with
(214) 518-5000                            NEC America, Inc.
1525 Walnut Hill Lane Irving TX 75038
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: pradhakr@s.psych.uiuc.edu (PK Radhakrishnan)
Subject: RESEARCH in INDIA
Summary: RESEARCH in INDIA
Keywords: research
Organization: UIUC Department of Psychology
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 17:46:27 GMT

I will be travelling to India this on May 13 and would
like to establish contacts with interested researchers
in psychology/organizational behavior/related fields
for long-term collaborations in the area of cross-cultural
research. 
My research interests are broad (presently i have some
ideas for studies in the area of negotaiton & bargainging).

If you/someone you know would be interested in collaborating
please email me directly by may 13 so i can try to contact 
them once i reach Bombay.
thanks, pk
email: pradhakr@psych.uiuc.edu
From: balarama@cae.wisc.edu (Prabhu Balaraman)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: INDIAN WOMEN & MARRIAGE (INDIANS and MARRIAGE) Summary:
Date: 9 Apr 92 23:52:52 GMT
Article-I.D.: doug.1992Apr9.185252.8570
Organization: College of Engineering, Univ. of Wisconsin-Madison

> It is more than disgusting when I meet Indian males who try to justify the
> marriages in India by the Name of Culture and the broken family scene of the
> west.
> After all for 90% of all Indian men, a woman is just a means of 
> earning some extra bucks and for having sex ...

  Boy, you do sound as confident as a person who has painstakingly
researched the whole affair! Guess, it has become fashionable to 
appear emancipated and intellectual, huh?!


-PB
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Friday, 10 Apr 1992 12:30:26 CDT
From: Sesha Talluri <U51935@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: GUJJU JOKES

In article <19536@chopin.udel.edu>, cobra@chopin.udel.edu (Jay Bhartkumar Patel)
says:
>
>Lately I have seen a lot of GUJJU jokes. I haven't yet found a single one     .
>funny
>The people who think of these jokes( maybe they should learn a definition of a
>joke) are they from the University of Nerds?
>
>In all the years I've been on this planet (this is Earth to those retarded who
>think of the humorless jokes) I've heard of people make fun of 'polaks and
>'sardarjis', but never heard of Gujju jokes.
>             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
NOW, you hear them. There is always a first time. :)
>Are these people operating on the diffrent frequency?
>
 NO. They are not. I am positive ;)
>If you have any comments feel free to fire away.
>
Naaaaaa.    By  the way lighten up :)
>P.S. : The fact that I am gujarati has nothing to do with this article. I am
>       damn proud to be gujarati. I don't mind if the joke is funny and has to
First INDIAN, then Gujrati ,...I hope. :)
>       do with GUJJU. Hey who would want to stop you from making fun of       f
>yoursel
>       by making senseless jokes about intellegent people.
>COBRA
>Jay Patel
>
 sesha
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: murthy@ssd.dl.nec.com (Vasudev Murthy)
Subject: Re: Advise for the Tamil net
Organization: world NEC America, Switching Systems Division
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 16:20:44 GMT

In article <1992Apr17.154715.5009@mercury.unt.edu> fb78@sol.acs.unt.edu (Ganesh Gopalakrishnan) writes:
>I do not see anything wrong in a new soc.culture.tamil to discuss
>cultural issues, literature, magazines, movies etc. Being "for"
>such a newsgroup does not automatically mean being "against"
>unity of india, "soc.culture.indian" or anything else. I believe
>that many of the problems of India result from repressive
>policies that force "unity" down peoples throats, not allowing
>the diverse people of our country to truly enjoy that freedom
>and "unity in diversity". - Ganesh


Please explain how you have suffered and what you have
lost in life due to the repressive policies you speak
of. And also what you may have (perhaps inadverantly) gained.

Regards,
   Vasudev
-- 
Vasudev Murthy               Any opinions expressed are strictly  
murthy@asl.dl.nec.com        my own  and have nothing to do with
(214) 518-5000          Advanced Switching Lab, NEC America, Inc.
1525 Walnut Hill Lane Irving TX 75038
From: ssharma@slash.eng.clemson.edu (sandeep sharma)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Help needed - Net Experts on Visas/EAD please respond.
Date: 7 Apr 92 00:50:43 GMT
Reply-To: ssharma@slash.eng.clemson.edu (sandeep sharma)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Clemson University Engineering Department
Originator: ssharma@slash.eng.clemson.edu

I am in a dilemma. I have a job which I have to join around the
last week of June. I currently have my defense slated for the 
last week of May, but that can be postponed.

The problem is that I want to visit India before I take up this job.
So that has to be from end-May to end-June. I am planning to apply
for my employment authorization documentation around the 15th of
this month. When I apply for this document, my I-20 gets stamped
that I have applied for an EAD. Now if I visit India, my visa
having expired, the Counsel can deny me my visa, seeing the
stamp. Is that possible?

So how does one file for an EAD, visit India, and still renew the
F-1 visa?

Please respond ASAP.

-Sandeep Sharma
ssharma@eng.clemson.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: angrish@news.cis.ohio-state.edu (yogesh angrish)
Subject: Any Ex-Scindians ???????
Organization: The Ohio State University Department of Computer and Information Science
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 15:13:08 GMT





Hi folks,

I'm looking forward to meet ex-Scindians in  the U.S.
I passed out of scindia in '89, and I have been here for almost 2 years now,
but ironically I haven't met any yet. 
	I'll be very glad, if atleast some of you respond!

yogi.

Yogesh Angrish. (Ex-Jeevaji)

email : angrish@cis.ohio-state.edu
tel : (614) 267-7224.

                 ( thanks for bothering !!!!! )


                   
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: jr55+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jyothi Rengarajan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: CITY OF JOY:my opinion
Date: 16 Apr 92 18:39:25 GMT
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA


   I sat through Roland Joffe's City of Joy at Pittsburgh and felt anger
and irritation among other things. It is, not surprisingly, a
condescending, patronising and self-important depiction, loosely based
on Lapiere's novel of the same name.
 
    The film was made with a glaring lack of sensitivity and
understanding of India. It is sad that even after 500 years of contact
with our civilization, the western psyche cannot come to terms with an
iota of what makes up our subcontinent. Joffe has made the not uncommon
blunder of earnestly believing that he understands poverty and
suffering, that he can feel the pulse of the 'real' India, that he can
discern the hope and love and the human bonding that triumphs through
the murkiness of the, I quote from the film, "cesspool of a country". He
proceeds to tell his tale of love and woe through terrible stereotypes,
cliches and nauseating moralizing. He romanticises poverty and gives us
a glimpse of the "purity' and 'uplifting' qualities it fosters.  The
fact the the film appeared to have been shot largely in the studio did
not help in establishing credibility.
 
    Swayze as the young, dis-spirited American doctor who finds a reason
to live from experiencing life on the edge at the city of joy is
hopelessly miscast. Collins, as the wonder-woman, dedicated to uplifting
the destitute and downtrodden, determined to change centuries of
tradition and superstition with amazing zeal is simply not believable.
Her dialogues are ridden with cliches and dripping sentiments. Together,
they help save the 'passive' inhabitants of the slum from the clutches
of the evil godfather, played by Art Malik, who goes around cutting up
women's faces with a blade for fun. And of course there were the usual
sub-plots about dowry and saving up every possible paisa for the sweet
beti.   
    Personally, I was surprised that Swayze was passable. However, he
cannot help that he looks ridiculous in a 'serious' role. From his
recent interviews it is obvious that he considers himself to be quite a
hero to have survived India and the much publicised bomb-attack during
the protests in Calcutta. The only real acting was displayed by the
various Indians of the cast. Om Puri and Shabana Azmi maintained their
good standards.
   
   The film has all the ingredients of a good masala movie except that
it tries to make a POINT, you see. About India, about Poverty, about
Love, Salvation, Hope, Inner Strength, about Adversity; about Good and
Evil, the former of course triumphing over the latter. Hurrah for the
poor rickshaw puller Hasari and his brave little family! Hurrah for the
lepers! Hurrah for dear Joan and a BIG Hurrah for our dashing,
hot-blooded doctor who finds the meaning of life through all of the
above. How deep, how profound. We, as Indians should all be grateful to
Joffe for teaching us these important lessons about our country.
 
 
Jyothi Rengarajan
From: venkat@concour.cs.concordia.ca (VENKATESH)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: help needed in finding telephone number
Date: 8 Apr 92 19:58:45 GMT
Organization: Concordia University, Montreal, Quebec

I have been trying to get phone number for Pragati Computers
at Pondicherry using Bell directory assistance. The operator from
the other end(madras) does not seem to be helpful in providing
the number. Can anyone suggest ways to find the phone number.

Thanks in advance
Venkatesh
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: kulki@cs.toronto.edu (Dattatraya Kulkarni)
Subject: Getting-in-touch-with-KREC pals
Summary: Looking for 87 batch pals from KREC
Keywords: KREC
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto
Distribution: US, CANADA
Date: 9 Apr 92 01:23:58 GMT

Gee, this is another of those looking-for-so-and-so, which everybody
hates. Unfortunately, SCI happens to be the most effective way to
get in touch with old friends, in an effort to find home away from
home. Senti? Yik.

Looking for KREC pals in general. '86, '87 batch E&C, EE and Mech in
particular.

--kulkarni DH
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Thursday, 9 Apr 1992 13:35:41 CDT
From: <U46723@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: INDIAN MEN and MARRIAGE
 <1992Apr8.165436.25605@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
 <1992Apr8.170737.7749@cs.umn.edu>

In article <1992Apr8.170737.7749@cs.umn.edu>, pavan@cs.umn.edu (A.Pavan) says:
>
>In article <1992Apr8.165436.25605@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
>gchacko@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (George W Chacko) writes:
>>In article <MdslsbC00WB4A47nNT@andrew.cmu.edu> sn00+@andrew.cmu.edu (Sudha
>Neelakantan) writes:
>>>My $0.02 worth:
>>>My gripe is that Indian men are really too difficult to date.  They
>>>have a major attitude problem where women are either idealized
>>>goddesses or whores
>>>I see this as a far greater barrier to falling in love and marrying
>>>someone than anything else.
>>>This is of course in my limited experience

>>In my limited experience many Indian  women for the most part are depressing
>>creatures. Especially the so called liberated/modern/politically aware/....
>>ones. They frequently expres the most appalling bovine  characteristics.
>>
>>If one was to merge your experiences with mine it would seem that the tale
>>of the Indian race is a sorry one. :-)
>>
>>
>>George
>
>In my experience, some women/girls who live their life around harping about
>feminism, liberation and so on, tend to have a appaling sense of insecurity.
>Maybe all this works as a protective shield for some for their own
>inseurities. Mind you, I am saying that I have met a few girls who fall under
>this category. I am NOT saying that all women are like this. Just that to some
MAYBE,these statements are a protective shield for your own appalling sense
of insecurity.Mind you,i'm saying that i have met a few guys who DON'T make
such vengeful assumptions about liberated women.
>it is a matter of vengeance rather than an idealogy.
Looks like it certainly is in your case.
regards,
-Savita.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The nice thing about apathy is you don't have to exert yourself to show you're
 sincere about it."-F.P.Jones.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------










>
>Regards,
>
>Pavan
From: balarama@cae.wisc.edu (Prabhu Balaraman)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Arranged Marriages
Date: 17 Apr 92 01:28:27 GMT
Article-I.D.: doug.1992Apr16.202827.29125
Organization: College of Engineering, Univ. of Wisconsin-Madison

>> 1. all arranged marraiges are forced on either the male or female.
     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>I look at it this way. True, it is not forced in a dramatic
>manner (like dragging you to the altar etc., as in the movies!).
>Instead, you are reduced to a state of helplessness. In such a `
>situation, the USE OF FORCE IS UNNECESSARY, isn't it ? 

   WHA..WHA..WHAT?!!  ( CAPS INTENTIONAL!)

>> 2. they are not part of Indian culture.

>I would say that it is a BLOT on the Indian culture.
                                                      
  Perhaps, Mr Sira, you should  considering writing for NYT, now that
Ms Barbara Crossette has been ejected from office. Your ideas are in
perfect resonance with her's...

PB
From: raghu@enh.nist.gov
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: RE: INDIAN MEN and MARRIAGE
Date: 8 Apr 92 05:20:09 GMT
Organization: NIST

Ms. Independent and anonymous,
no doubt there is some truth to what you write, some people most of the points, 
many indian men some of the way, definitely not all indian men all the way.
this is an important matter and good discussion might promote more exchange 
of ideas and perhaps some people might even switch sides in their convictions.
why criticize?  just find your "hon" if you already have not and enjoy.
From: dharma@verdix.com (Manjeri Dharmarajan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: INDIAN MEN and MARRIAGE
Date: 13 Apr 92 07:41:39 GMT
Article-I.D.: verdix.4513
Reply-To: dharma@VERDIX.COM (Manjeri Dharmarajan)
Organization: Verdix Western Operations; Aloha, OR

In article <1992Apr12.215145.19494@wpi.WPI.EDU> vimal@wpi.WPI.EDU (Sangita Rani Jha) writes:
>
>	     Throughout history women have had to work harder for the
>	"male-dominated" positions.  A woman would have to be twice as
>	intelligent to compete with these men, and even then, her 
>	chances of being accepted were slim. Rejection builds insecurity
>	in some women, and the others go feminist.  This is the story
>	of a struggling woman...
>

Past discrimination is no excuse to beat up on men, today. Neither does it
justify any compensation to women of today. If a person's only reason to be 
insecure is that people of their gender faced rejections in the past, then 
they are crazy.

Past discrimination is only relevant insofar as it affects present attitudes.
You can claim redress or revenge only if you personally have been discriminated
against.

	Dharmarajan

>					-- Sangita Jha
From: kchittur@EBS330.EB.UAH.EDU (Krishnan Chittur(CHE))
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: About that IIW and so on
Date: 8 Apr 92 18:37:13 GMT
Article-I.D.: ebs330.9204081837.AA15997


Independent Indian Woman?  and no return address?  

Perhaps I understand.  A few months ago, I was in the middle
of an "arranged vs love" marriage discussion.  I got mail
from one reader with words like "dyspeptic vomit" 
(I guess he was trying to disagree with me ..)

So, perhaps the respondent did not want to deal with such
potentially vicious mail; this happens all too frequently. 

And when Mr. Michael L. Le Houllier (m_lehoul@oz.plymouth.edu) 
volunteers to mention his preferences for Indian/Asian women,
people jump on him.  

Mr. Le Houllier, I agree.  Such attitudes smack of racism.  You
mention one gentleman, I'm afraid it is not unique.  
(by the way, I just love the campus.  A great place to have
Gordon Research Conferences!)  

Sylvia D'Cruz (udcrusd@meaddata.com) posts some items on divorce,
and UP goes the battle-cry!  Boy, are people sensitive, or is
it something else ... 

It is quite possible that "divorce" as understood by us here in
the US is not common in India, but simple abandoment by the husband,
or cruelty to women,  and ancillary events do not show up in
official statistics.  Perhaps, people here in the US get divorced
for the wrong reasons, perhaps too quickly.  There are couples
in India (or for that matter here in the US) who stay married for
the wrong reasons.  I mean what would the neighbors say? Right?

It is difficult to have civilized discussions; espceially when
the discussion parties talk past one another.  Nice way to vent
those "frustrations" and not having to admit that one could be 
wrong!  

     
Snail Mail: 			Voice Mail: 	E-Mail:  
Krishnan K. Chittur		(205) 895 6850	kchittur@cs.uah.edu  
Chemical Engineering Dept.			kchittur@ebs330.eb.uah.edu  
Univ. of Alabama in Huntsville			uahkxc01@uahvax1 (Bitnet) 
Huntsville, AL 35899
From: bala@research.att.com (Bala Krishnamurthy)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: World's Biggest Religious Fair in Ujjain
Keywords: Ujjain Fair
Date: 17 Apr 92 12:47:15 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories


apnews reports:
	   UJJAIN, India (AP) - Tens of thousands of Hindus assembled in
this ancient city in central India for today's inauguration of the
monthlong Kumbh Mela, the religion's grandest festival held every
12 years.
	   Authorities say at least 10 million people are expected to
attend the festival, 385 miles southwest of New Delhi, by the time
the final dip is taken in the Shipra River on May 16.
	   The origins of the festival are unknown, but according to
mythology, the Earth was hallowed in four places by contact with
Kumbh, a jar of nectar churned up by the sea.
	   The Kumbh Mela is held in turn at Allahabad, Haridwar, Ujjain
and Nasik every 12 years, the divine equivalent of the time it took
a rook-like god to carry the jar to paradise.
	   Hindus believe a dip in the Shipra River will wash away their
sins and free them from the cycle of birth and rebirth, thereby
attaining salvation.
	   Child-god Saint Bhupendra Giri, his guru Mahant Suraj Giri Naga
Baba and five other ascetics traveled more than 500 miles from
their camp in the northern state of Uttar Pradesh for the Kumbh.
	   In Ujjain, Bhupendra joined about 15,000 other ascetics in a
tent city along the banks of Shipra.
	   Authorities say 30,000 to 40,000 ascetics were expected today,
when about 400,000 people including priests and pilgrims are
expected to take the dip.
	   The fair is a crazy mix of ethereal and worldly sadhus, or
ascetics, each proclaiming his prowess.
	   Bhupendra has lived on a wooden swing since he was three,
according to his guru. The child was given to the ascetic by his
father when 3 months old.
	   ``He sleeps on the swing at night. During the day he stands on
it or plays with us but never sits. Never,'' said the mahant,
shaking the matted locks of his graying beard. Held between his
fingers is a cigarette in holder.
	   Sitting alongside him is a disciple smoking marijuana in a baked
clay pine.
	   A few yards away sits Yuval Alon, an Israeli sadhu, meditating
with a friend who identifies himself only as Claude.
	   Claude and Alon live like Indian sadhus, wearing only loincloths
and long matted hair.
	   ``This is natural. It is not I that grow my hair. It is you who
cut your hair,'' said Alon, who has been in India for the last five
months, taking life as it comes.
	   ``I came to India for shanti,'' he said, referring to the
Sanskrit word for peace.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian