From: edwardm@hpcuhe.cup.hp.com (Edward McClanahan)
Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.programmer.win32
Subject: Re: What's your favorite hardware for Windows NT?
Date: 13 Nov 92 01:33:13 GMT
Organization: Hewlett Packard, Cupertino

Russell Turpin writes:

> I am in the process of selecting a system on which I wish to run
> Windows NT (and perhaps SVR4 later).

Likewise...

>                   The three systems on my short list are:

>    Zeos 486/33 VESA Local Bus

> 	The DX2/66 is listed on the October compatibility list,
> 	and so I suspect the 33 Mhz version will also work.  
> 	Their SCSI adaptor is not currently supported, so I 
> 	would purchase this elsewhere.

I asked ZEOS about their SCSI chip and was told:

        1 - SCSI-1 and SCSI-2
        2 - They don't know if it is implemented on the VL-Bus
        3 - Supposedly Adaptec 1542 compatible

Another tidbit (market differentiator) for the ZEOS products
are the "claimed" support for "P5SX" upgrade when Intel releases
such a chip.  See below for more comments re: this "feature".

>    Ariel 486/33 VESA Local Bus

>	This is also on the October compatibility list, *but*
>	Ariel standardly packages this with an ATI Ultra Pro 
>	card which we know is *not* supported.  Their sales rep.
>	is currently looking into alternative video cards.

>    Gateway 2000 486/33V

>	The 486/33C is listed on the compatibility list and I
>	suspect the local bus version will work if one chooses
>	their usual video card rather than the ATI Ultra Pro.

I assume NT on either the Ariel or Gateway machines is either
using a different Video Card (in which case Microsoft committed
a BIG BLUNDER putting non-qualified instances of these two
machines on the Compatibility List) -OR- they operated the
ATI cards in VGA-mode (yuck).  In any event, I would think you
could live with VGA until ATI releases their NT drivers (at
Comdex this month?), but that is your call and I could understand
any discomfort you may feel in not trusting ATI.  They clearly
have an Image Problem to overcome with a large number of
informed would-be purchasers.

As to the Gateway product, I have a few of comments:

        1 - The 66V (66MHz DX2) is a MUCH BETTER DEAL - if you can
            spare the extra money.  For an additional $600, you get
            a 340MB H.D. (instead of 210MB) and the 15" monitor
            upgrade (which the SalesPerson I spoke with) claimed
            was the much awarded MAG 15H (not to mention the step
            up from the 33MHz DX to 66MHz DX2)

        2 - When challenged on a key difference between the Gateway
            and ZEOS products, that of support for the "P5SX", the
            SalesPerson I spoke with (Monroe) claimed that ZEOS (and
            many other of Gateway's competitors) are wrong about their
            capability of simply upgrading to the "P5SX".  Well, I
            admit I accepted this on faith (from Monroe) and had
            resolved to discount this claimed feature of Gateway's
            competitors.  Then, I read in PCWeek that AMI and Micronics
            were releasing (at Comdex) new VL-Bus boards (both ISA
            and EISA) which claim to support this "P5SX" chip.  Now
            the important fact to understand is that Gateway is
            probably the LARGEST PURCHASER of Micronics motherboards.
            My cut on this is that Monroe (whether intentionally or
            not) was merely being a "salesperson-let-loose" trying
            to discount a clear advantage of a competitor's product.
            I fully expect to see Gateway offer VL-Bus ISA and EISA
            systems based on these new boards from Micronics and they
            will then claim to support "P5SX" upgradeability.

        3 - A friend of mine has the pre-VL-Bus top-of-the-line ISA
            50MHz DX2 system from Gateway.  He ordered the 15" monitor
            upgrade which was claimed to be the MAG-15H.  Now I don't
            know how much "value added" Gateway claims to do to this
            monitor - and I've never actually seen face-to-screen an
            actual MAG-15H, but from the pictures I've seen and the
            reviews I've read of the MAG's, I doubt very much that
            my friends monitor is the same MAG-15H.  It may be 15".
            It may do Non-Interlaced 1280x1024.  But it sure didn't
            impress me in video quality and the front panel controls
            on my friend's monitor were laid out completely differently
            than on the pictured MAGs I have seen.  BTW, the ATI (Mach 8)
            video card was driving the "Crystal Scan 15" monitor, but
            he couldn't find a driver to support ATI's "crystal fonts".
            Still, it was not the fonts that were unimpressive, it was
            the variations in distances between scan lines.  While the
            center of the screen looked good, the upper and lower few
            inches were very grainy.

Good luck in your search!  I guess I've decided to build up my own
system from the following:

  Micronics or AMI EISA VL-Bus MotherBoard
  486/33 - why spend more if what I really want to do is drop
           in the "P5SX" as soon as it is available
  256KB Cache (<20nsec)
  16MB Memory
  ATI Ultra Pro 2MB (hopefully), S3 (C924) or ET-4000/W32 VL-Bus graphics card
  UltraStor 34F VL-Bus SCSI-2 controller
  200-400MB SCSI (hopefully -2) H.D.
  MAG-15H (if I can find a "real" one and am convinced it is as good
           as the reviewers claim it is) - or some other monitor
           capable of handling >60Hz refresh at 1280x1024 (that the
           ATI Ultra Pro is capable of generating) - note this leaves
           out such wonders as the NEC 3FGx and 4FG...
  Toshiba 3401 CD-Rom (200msec, 330Kbps, SCSI-2)

I believe the above system can be built for <$4000.  For any of you "smart
enough" to want a vendor to do the integration, I'd suggest looking at
TriStar.  They have several systems configures very much as I listed above
(although they advertise 50MHz and 66MHz DX2 systems with fancy 17" monitors)
in the $4500 range.  I expect several vendors will agressively compete with
these offerings in the very near future!

Ed "Of course there's always something better around the corner" McClanahan
Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.programmer.win32