HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gil@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au (Gil Hardwick)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Crowley and Satanism (Help please)
Distribution: world
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 92 06:03:49 GMT
Organization: STAFF STRATEGIES - Anthropologists & Training Agents


In article <1992Oct9.153210.855@debet.nhh.no> si0_tb90020@debet.nhh.no writes:

 > what he has written, but I don't have any of his writings), what did he
 > do to make people say he is a satanist, what arguments can I use to
 > state he was not such a thing, and so on.

Nobody has to *do* anything to make people say they are satanists, or
anything else. People imagine anything they want all by themselves, and
let it come out of their mouth *as if* they were saying something . . .

I think it is called *blithering*, isn't it? Standard arguments apply
with factual evidence to support them.

Gil

--
Gil Hardwick                                      gil@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au
Independent Consulting Ethnologist                            3:690/660.6
PERTH, Western Australia                                 (+61 9) 399 2401
   * * Sustainable Community Development & Environmental Education * *
From: lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: The Serpent
Date: 8 Oct 92 23:25:26 GMT
Organization: LLNL

In article <6oo9RB1w165w@eagles.uucp> thomas@eagles.uucp (Thomas Hoffman) writes:
@ 
@ 	Actually, there _is_ a case for a common origin for these
@ dragon stories. More examples:
@ 
@ Zeus kills Typhon
@ Apollo kills Python
@ Perseus kills Medusa (?)
@ Thor kills Midgard
@ Indra kills Vrtra
@ 
@ 	(Oh, boy! All these gods and heroes just _love_ to kill snakes.)
@ 
@ 	The hypothesis I like best is that all these stories are
@ ultimately derivatives of some ancestral Indo-European myth of a
@ warrior-god fighting and killing an evil snake-monster. This explains
@ the Greek, Aryan, and Germanic versions, and probably the original of
> 
>you know the scary part is that all legends are supposed to be based on some
>sort of fact. so what happened to all the big snakes or lizards?

	And also a lot of imagination. Where are the fossils of all
these animals? Surely, at least some of them would have gotten drowned
in some lake or mired down in some swamp or washed down some river.

>did all these manly god types kill them off?:)

	I guess so :-):-)

 are there any female heroes
>that killed the serpent archetype?

	I'm not aware of any, though an example would certainly be
interesting to find.

what about the psychological analogy for the
>serpent as a phallus?

	Interesting question.

>so many questions, and only one multiverse to answer them in.
>(any and all veiws expressed here are my own. they are not to be misconstrued
>as being those of the asatru religion, eagles reaches, or the ring of troth.
>this is added for the benifit of the wolfes of the field.)
>there you go guys ponder or flame, i'm wearing my asbestsos(SP) viking gear.
Organization: Freshman, MCS general, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Date: Tue,  6 Oct 1992 23:12:45 -0400 
From: Kendrick Kerwin Chua <kendrick+@CMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: The Serpent
	<BvpqDA.D9H@inews.Intel.COM>

>There are two different serpents, an Eastern one and a Western one. In the
>West, one slays their serpent, in the East, one worships their serpent. It is
>a fundamental cultural difference. Can you see the metaphors? Do you slay
>or worship your serpents (dragons)? Do you fight your self or are you at
>peace with your self?
 
OK.  Not to proselytize, but this is what I believe.

The ancient mesopotamians both worshipped and fought their serpent. 
Tiamat was what they were created from, according to the myth.  Hence,
they respect and worship her.  By the same token, she was evil, and was
slain, therefore she was fought (by Marduk). This argues that the myth
originated here, 6,000 years ago before anyone else had anything
resembling a serpent myth.

Only my opinion.  Other's are extremely interested.


Kendrick Kerwin Chua

kc3u+@andrew.cmu.edu    or
kendrick+@CMU.EDU

Cthulhu for President, 1992!
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: corun@access.digex.com (Corun MacAnndra)
Subject: Re: a shell I got today
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 21:23:04 GMT

Janis,

If you ever get to D.C. you have to check out the National Museum of
natural History. The dinosaur exhibit has some truly remarkable shell 
fossils, including one nautilus fossil that must be near three feet across.
It's fargin' *huge*. Also, though you're not too into minerals, the
mineral exhibit upstairs in the same museum is well worth the trip. The
natural stones are amazing. They have a bunch of jewelry (the Hope diamond
and such) some of which is pretty remarkable (though the Hope itself is
a little disappointing, I like the rubies and emeralds myself). The best
IMO, is the carved jade. There's one statuette of a woman holding a
rabbit. The jade has different colours running through it, and the artist
managed to take the only bit of purple in the stone, and carve the
statue in such a way as to make the rabbit purple. 

Anyway, this is posted just to entice you to come out to D.C. sometime.
You better look me up if you do. ;-) Try in the winter. You might get
lucky and not only get few tourist, but possibly snow.

Bb,

Corun

-- 
===========================================================================
    Corun MacAnndra    |   How much comm could a comm port port
  Dark Horde by birth  |     if a comm port could port comm?
    Moritu by choice   |
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,alt.sex,alt.sex.bondage
From: corun@access.digex.com (Corun MacAnndra)
Subject: Re: Halloween
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 14:01:12 GMT

In article <2ADA3FF5.9374@news.service.uci.edu> cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
>In article <1992Oct13.030332.20750@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> lrabe@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Lee A Rabe) writes:
>>Help!
>>
>>I've been invited to a Halloween party, and have found out that it is to be
>>a costume party.
>>
>>I need suggestions for a costume.  Help!
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>TopCat
>
>Well, provided I can find a party, I'm going as a Witch.
>
>Oh, yeah, and I'm wearing a costume, too.
>
>Blessings,
>Janis 

But what's your costume going to be? ;-)

Bb,

Corun

-- 
===========================================================================
    Corun MacAnndra    |   How much comm could a comm port port
  Dark Horde by birth  |     if a comm port could port comm?
    Moritu by choice   |
From: wolfe@wolves.uucp (G. Wolfe Woodbury)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Libertarians, guns, etc.
Date: 13 Oct 92 03:02:48 GMT
Organization: Red Wolfe @ The Wolves Den
X-Md4-Signature: 0f6b15675784aac89010e1dbcd83eb4d

In <718838988snx@hrnowl.lonestar.org> anwyn@hrnowl.lonestar.org (anwyn) writes:
>In <1992Oct7.175213.18836@radian.uucp> markbr%radian@natinst.com writes:
>  > I just skimmed the article referred to above. Corum, I think we ought to
>  > let this idiot thread with Anwyn die. He (apparently) literally can't see
>  > the forest for the trees, so he denies there is such a thing as a forest
>  > (note carefully thought out analogy here). 
>
>In a sense this is correct. "Forest" is a human abstraction that aggregates 
>together the various elements that are said to make it up (trees, animals,
>soil ect.) This aggregation a purely arbitrary human convention.
>There is no underlying  "forest" reality.  . . .
	[Mechanistic and reductionist examination of "forest" elided]

Anwyn,
	The concept/word "forest" existed LONG before the "science" of
ecology came along to perform its reduction of the whole to a mere
network of parts.  The "purpose" of the reduction is/was not to destroy
the concept of "forest", but to assist the viewer to understand the
totality of the concept.

	It is, indeed, just a silly, semantic game to tell a biologist
that a forest doesn't exist.  A *good* biologist will remember that
despite the fact that they are up to their ass in alligators, they came
to the Everglades to preserve it.

	It is a shame to see that some of the non-physicists are still
caught up in the Cartesian and Theist universe, where there is simply
the pieces and analysis, and no synthesis as of yet.

	You play games with words, but you reveal more than you know
about yourself by doing so.

				Wolfe
(Whose grandfather was a founder of the american study of ecology, but
managed to teach me the wonder and joy of being part of nature!)
-- 
G. Wolfe Woodbury @ The Wolves Den UNIX, Durham NC         [use the maps!]
UUCP: ...duke!wolves!wolfe                            <Standard disclaimers>
Domain: wolfe@wolves.durham.nc.us   wolfe%wolves@cs.duke.edu
    Above all, we celebrate.   Celebrate the Circle Statement of Purpose
From: markbr%radian@natinst.com (markbr)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re:  Bewitched returns! (shudder)
Date: 14 Oct 92 17:58:20 GMT
Organization: Radian Cormp.

In article <2ADB8F0D.14556@news.service.uci.edu> cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
#In article <larne.03da@canetoad.UUCP> larne@canetoad.UUCP (Larne Pekowsky) writes:
<stuff deleted>>
#>FYI, the actress who played the Witch was 1) Wiccan and 2) Harry Anderson's
#>wife.  Either she or he also wrote the episode.  (This from an issue of
#>TV guide that came out at the time).
#
#This, for some reason, elicited a nice, big smile from me upon reading
#it.  If there are Pagans and Witches in the industry, and we're growing,
#as all reports have it, maybe we'll start seeing some normal portrayals
#in the media.
#
#HOWever, I'm not holding my breath.
#
#Blessings,
#Janis 
#
I can't remember where I got this from, but y'all *do* know that Margot
Adler, of _Draw Down the Moon_, is the same Margot Adler of NPR?

	mark
From: jclannom@mathlab.mtu.edu (Joe Lannom)
Subject: Re: Birth Data (Was Re: a nice experience)
Reply-To: jclannom@mathlab.mtu.edu (Joe Lannom)
Organization: Michigan Technological University
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 17:06:32 GMT

Here's more data for the birth info collection:
 
Sept 17th, 1966    6:23 am (just before the cartoons come on 8-)

Can't quite remember the long/lat data, but its near the north  
eastern portion of Detroit.
 
Be Thyself,
 
Joe
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: corun@access.digex.com (Corun MacAnndra)
Subject: Re: Birth Date and Announcement!
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 01:58:23 GMT

In article <gBPFsB1w165w@circle.UUCP> circle!lance@wolves.durham.nc.us (Lance A. Brown) writes:
>Well, as everyone is giving their birthdates, here are two more:
>
>Me, Lance Brown
>    born October 3, 1996 @ 12:15 PM in Minneapolis, MN
>
>My brand new daughter!!!!!
>    born October 8, 1992 @ 4:45 PM in Raleigh, NC
>
>Yes, this IS a birth announcement!
>
>Blessings,
>  Lance

A double birth anouncement it appears. And your daughter's just under four
years older than you too. That's a good trick. Congratualtions to both of
you. <big grin>

Bb,

Corun "who just can't resist"

-- 
===========================================================================
    Corun MacAnndra    |   How much comm could a comm port port
  Dark Horde by birth  |     if a comm port could port comm?
    Moritu by choice   |
From: ksm@abb-sc.abb-sc.com (Ashley)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Some disgustingly mushy stuff
Date: 9 Oct 92 01:16:32 GMT
Organization: Kaos Laboratories


In article <1b23caINNf88@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, jmm25@po.CWRU.Edu (Jessica M. Mcgeary) writes...
> 
>Some friends of mine and I got extremely bored in senior year of high 
>school, and started trying to compose a list of arguments for and against 
>God's existence. It wound up soundling like something out of Robert 

	My dear, Matt Groening did this as a strip in his Life In Hell 
cartoons! Have you seen it by chance? Also, as we all know, preferences are 
individual and I saw a number of things in the argument against God that I 
would have on the other side and vice-versa! I'm not gonna say what tho....

		- Ashley


	"Dead but dreaming......" - FotN
From: lilleyc@cs.man.ac.uk (Chris Lilley)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Halloween
Date: 15 Oct 92 22:57:18 GMT
Organization: Dept Computer Science, University of Manchester, U.K.

In article <2ADCF631.26980@news.service.uci.edu>
cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:

>There's only one problem with this.  From what I understand, woad is not
>meant to come off.  It would make a neat costume (if a bit chilly) but
>the guy'd better like it, because he's going to be wearing it for a
>really long time.

Janis that depends on whether you use it as paint or as a tattoo
dye...

Its not that strong a dye - thats why indigo became popular.

--
Chris Lilley
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technical Author, ITTI Computer Graphics and Visualisation Training Project
Computer Graphics Unit, Manchester Computing Centre, Manchester, UK
Internet:   lilley@cgu.mcc.ac.uk        Janet:   lilley@uk.ac.mcc.cgu
Voice:      +44 (0)61 275 6095          Fax:     +44 (0)61 275 6040
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: angelai@wam.umd.edu (Angela I.)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Substituting spells for confrontations...
Date: 16 Oct 92 20:48:32 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park

In article <2ADE2B86.6629@news.service.uci.edu> cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
>
>This is slightly off topic, but since so many requests for spells to
>deal with people have been here, I feel like getting this off my chest.
>First, I am not saying anything bad about anyone in particular; I think
>I'm just having people's requests bring this to mind.
>
>I'm afraid people are using spells as a way to handle problems they have
>with other people without actually confronting the other person
>involved.  It seems like spells can be abused this way -- they can be
>used as a means of avoiding TALKING to the person who's causing you
>trouble, or TALKING to the person who's in trouble while you still convince
>yourself you're doing something.

Well said, Janis.  I would suggest a similar perspective on this...
Perhaps the Multiverse is not divided into a Physical side and a Spiritual
side...  IMHO, it's not a dual-natured situation but rather a continuum
that encompasses all ranges of perception (including physical, spiritual,
etc...)  Thus, if you cast a "spiritual only" spell, and don't include
the part about physically working toward your goal (in whatever way you
can) then the spell is not too likely to be effective.  I am reminded of
a joke:

There was a man who was a real cheapskate.  He always wanted to win the
lottery so that he would be rich & not have to worry about money ever
again.  So he prayed to (insert preferred deity here) every day, begging
and pleading that he would be allowed to win the lottery...  Finally
one day, he was in (temple, church, sacred space) praying, and (the
deity) appeared to the man and (S)He said:  "Okay, okay, I'll do my
part about winning the lottery, but at least meet me 1/2way on this --
buy a lottery ticket for once!"

Of course, not every situation is applicable to this.  For some things,
a ritual is the only thing that can be done (or hopefully, the ritual
will point out what to do to achieve the goal)...  But if the spellcaster
is not doing all they can to physically work toward the goal, then usually
the spell is incomplete (and will not be very effective)...

Just $.02 to add to Janis'.  :)
From: wce@hogbbs.scol.pa.us (Bill Eichman)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Witches and death
Date: 16 Oct 92 22:37:47 GMT
Organization: The Heart of Gold BBS, Lemont PA

Ahhh, Paul, you have worded me into submission.....
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: markbr%radian@natinst.com (markbr)
Subject: Re: Eyes,Signs,Paganism
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 17:11:21 GMT
Distribution: alt.pagan
Organization: Radian Cormp.

In article <MICHAEL.92Oct12201742@albert.bu.edu> michael@albert.bu.edu (Michael Chaplin) writes:
>In article <RCORMAC.92Oct12001700@eniac.cs.oberlin.edu> rcormac@eniac.cs.oberlin.edu (Cormac (Xbattle -rcormac) Russell) writes:
>
>  =Hah! Blue eyes! Gemini! (so is my brother...). Pagan.
>  =See it isn't just you uppity Hazel Eyed Libras! :) :) :) :) :)
>  =^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>  =NOTE SMILEYS THAT IS A JOKE!!!!
>  =^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>  =that was a joke too. Sorry, am stressed out right now... :)
>  =Blessed Be
>  =   Cormac
>   
>That's o.k., 'cause it's us Hazel Eyed Virgos who've gotten beyond
>                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>this whole religion thang. ;^)   ;^)   ;^)
>
>Michael "Hazel Eyed Virgo who's working on this smugness thing" Chaplin.

Oh, yeah! Well *I'm* an Aquarius, *and* blue/grey-eyed, and if *you*
don't like it, *I'll* take my Age (of Aquarium) and go HOME. Humph!

	(B-)}

	mark
From: larne@canetoad.UUCP (Larne Pekowsky)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re:  Bewitched returns! (shudder)
Distribution: world
Date: 13 Oct 92 19:10:50 EDT
Organization: The Satellite of Love

In article <2ADB024E.1391@news.service.uci.edu> cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
>I can vaguely recall an episode of Night Court where Harry got involved
>with a Witch (don't know if she was Wiccan or not), and she was quite
>nice.  I think he met her on a talk show.
[...]
>Witch; it's not what I do, it's what I *am*."  I recall it being quite
>good.

FYI, the actress who played the Witch was 1) Wiccan and 2) Harry Anderson's
wife.  Either she or he also wrote the episode.  (This from an issue of
TV guide that came out at the time).

--
...uunet!canetoad!larne                          canetoad!larne@uunet.uu.net
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: radzy@ICSI.Berkeley.EDU (T. O. Radzykewycz)
Subject: Re: Malvina Reynolds was:  Re: Little Boxes (was: another poem)
Organization: International Computer Science Institute, Berkeley, CA, U.S.A.
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 05:29:21 GMT


Marty wrote:
> we accept "feminine" men (and, in the counterculture, applaud them) as well
> as "masculine" men.

I don't know about how the counterculture treats masculine women, but
it seems to me that the applause from the counterculture for feminine
women is pretty superficial.  Even while potential SOs are saying how
wonderful they are for allowing their feminine aspects to show, they
STILL tend to give the same "perks" to the steriotypical men (dates,
mostly, but a few other things too).

> I'm just saying we should be as careful to accept that there's a spark
> somewhere deep within even the most recalcitrant of women.

I'll agree with this!

Blessings, for those within and without the counterculture!

		-- radzy

------------------------------------------------------------
					|  An it harm none,
	T. O. Radzykewycz	     	|  do as ye will.
	The Incredible Radical Cabbage	|
					|  "Just pray for a
	radzy@cogsci.berkeley.edu       |  tough hide and a
	        			|  tender heart."
	        			|    -- Ruth Graham
------------------------------------------------------------
Tribal Mother was old, and lay ill on a bed of moss and
fern.   Her hair was long and grey.   Her face was very
wrinkled.    Tamura'nun-pa thought:   How beautiful you
are, Mother, so old and wise.
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: mimir@stein.u.washington.edu (Al Billings)
Subject: Re: Ceremony Suggestions?
Organization: The Friends of Loki Society
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 08:13:45 GMT

In article <-1366694331snx@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au> gil@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au (Gil Hardwick) writes:
>
>Or perhaps about the 9 *MILLION* or more women burned at the stake as
>witches during the Mediaeval Period?

 This figure is nonsense. It has been debunked time and again. Care to
name a credible source (or did you tip the figure for Jewish dead in world
war two upside down)?

Wassail,
Grendel

=============================================================================
|     O     |  Hammar I COMPUTER, Helga Ve Theta Ok Hald Vordh!             |
|    /|\    |                                                               |
|   O-O-O   |  "Praise the day in the evening,      mimir@u.washington.edu  |
|   |\|/|   |   a torch when it is burned,          Anthropology Undergrad  |
|   | O |   |   a sword when it is tried,           Admin for Troth-L       |
|   |/|\|   |   a maid when married,                System operator of      |
|   O-O-O   |   ice when crossed,                     The Sacred Grove BBS  |
|    \|/    |   ale when drunk."                      (206)634-1980 V.32    |
|     O     |                  - Havamal, verse 81                          |
=============================================================================
From: shrdlu@willow.sdd.trw.com (Lynda L. True)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Astrology
Date: 12 Oct 92 15:50:37 GMT
Organization: TRW Inc., Redondo Beach, CA

In article <1992Oct12.142740.29228@news2.cis.umn.edu> jill@gopher.ccbr.umn.edu (Jill Hollifield) writes:
>I now have my astrological information charted (thanks Lynda), and have
>no idea what all of this stuff *means*!

You're welcome...

>Any suggestions for books that will help me interpret it?

Tomorrow I'll try to remember to post the titles and ISBN numbers of a
couple of books that are readable, and general.

Although I am going to be a little slow in running through all the
charts, I hope to have mailed out all of them by the end of this week.

Master Lizard: I am generating four charts for you according to your
birthdate, using sunrise, sunset, midnight, and 3:30 am (babies like
to come in the middle of the night). Although none of them will be
particularly trustworthy as to ascendent or houses, you can pick and
choose (and at least you will have the gross positions of the
planets).

Most states began listing the time of birth by the forties and
fifties, so unless you were adopted, you should have access to your
birth certificate, which should have stated the time of birth.

Currently, the typical respondent has about 30% chance of having
Sagittarius as either sun, moon, or ascendent... This is (of course)
limited to the small number I have done so far (about 30 or so).

When I am through, I will post any interesting statistics, and attempt
to explain a typical alt.pagan reader...

Later, Lynda
-- 
George Bush, the environmentalist: 1000 points of blight.

shrdlu@rowan.sdd.trw.com (Lynda L. True)
Work Phone - (310) 812-1660 or (310) 812-1570
From: lgt1@ohm.york.ac.uk (Laurence Tyler (Guest - CompServ))
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: that quote about "foul enough for a witch to burn in."
Date: 8 Oct 92 18:33:43 GMT
Organization: Electronics Department, University of York, UK

Where I come from (South Wales mainly) a 'faggot' is a kind of large
meatball, usually served 2-4 per helping with rich gravy, and
preferably peas as well - processed or mushy peas. Chips too, sometimes.

One of the few foods I occasionally miss since becoming vegetarian...

Laurence.
-- 
Laurence Tyler (Systems Group)
University of York Computing Service, UK
email: lgt1@york.ac.uk
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: darice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Fred Rice)
Subject: Women and Men Witches
Organization: Monash University, Melb., Australia.
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 09:41:04 GMT

In witchcraft (as talked about here on this newsgroup), how do men and
women compare against each other in their roles, etc., in the religion?
I noticed many references to "Godess" or "Godesses" - do these
references to feminine deities reflect a difference in the roles men and
women are expected to have?

Thanks,

Ignorant, and knows it,

 Fred Rice
 darice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au   

*****************************************************************
*  `If a withering leaf says by its appearance that it needs 	*
*  water, because you have the power to provide it you also 	*
*  have the duty to do so, as these "words" of the leaf are the *
*  manifestation of the command of the creator of the leaf,	* 
*  and are addressed to you.  If you insist upon a personal	*
*  command from the Originator, ask why the means of		*
*  communication has been placed before you.  Is it there for	*
*  you to neglect?'						*
*			Hadhrat Bahaudin Naqshband of Bukhara	*
*****************************************************************
Newsgroups: alt.pagan