HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: c188-am@po.berkeley.edu (Leor Jacobi)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Organic Foods "Non-essential"???
Date: 19 Dec 92 19:46:47 GMT
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley


It seems to me that there are other factors that go along with
organically-grown produce:

1. Long-Term effects on the soil and environment.

2. Effects of pesticides on farm-workers (especially in grapes)

3. Commercially-grown produce is grown with chemicals primarily to increase
yield and "beauty" of the produce.  Produce is bred for efficient machine-
harvesting.  One has only to witness the dramatically declining quality of
much of the commercially-grown produce.  We are growing produce with
shelf-life, not taste or nutrition.

4. Also, there is not enough diversity in our crops.  We are doing evolution
a disservice by growing only a small subset of existing edible foods.
Organic farmers are much more likely to try new foods and are much less
likely to be growing massive crops of all the same species.

It seems to me that...
There is a clash of paradigms here, between those who view agriculture as
the sustainer of life and those who view it as a factory.

Buy Organic!

--
 Leor Jacobi                ,__o  |"If you're wondering why all the love that
 leor@ocf.berkeley.edu    _-\_<,  | you long for eludes you...I'll tell you
 c188-am@po.berkeley.edu (*)/'(*) | why...but you wouldn't believe me.  You
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=| just haven't earned it yet, baby." - Smiths
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: tjfeue@bb1t.monsanto.com
Subject: Re: Animal Experiments
Followup-To: rec.food.veg
Organization: Monsanto Company, St. Louis, MO
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 22:08:43 GMT

> In article <tara.724426611@starburst.umd.edu>, tara@starburst.umd.edu (Tara
> McDermott) wrote:

>> Believe me, there's a lot more discussion going on here than there
>> could possibly be in TPA.  It's a sniper zone over there!

Coming over here with this is:

1.  Preaching to the choir.

2.  Will simply attract the "snipers" over here.

I have to remind you that t.p.a was created by *THIS* newsgroup 
to stop all that nonsense over here and keep more to the food end.
This was done since the newsgroup was overrun with the kind of
flame wars that you've started with those kind of posts.  

I *know* that this is an issue that you are deeply concerned about (and 
although I don't agree with you I *do* respect your conviction), but
wouldn't it do more good elsewhere like sci.med or t.p.a.?  

BTW, keep posting the recipes.  I can't wait to try the latest ones. :-)

Ted Feuerbach - Scientific Systems Consultant
Disclaimer:     Monsanto didn't say this, I did!
Stupid Quote:   Money is simply alcohol in a 
                more easily transportable form.
                                            - Me
From: tara@starburst.umd.edu (Tara McDermott)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: VEGAN: Mushroom Barley Soup (hearty)
Date: 18 Dec 92 05:49:41 GMT


By the way... if any one makes this beware!  It is VEEEERRRRRRRY 
rich.   My husband and I could not eat more than a small bowl at a
time.  Admittedly I did make it with a lot less water than they called
for, but I had to!  I didn't have a big enough pot to accommodate it
all.  It still tastes good though!

--
Tara McDermott               
tara@starburst.umd.edu       
I eat tofu, and I vote.
From: jeffjc@cs.mcgill.ca (Jeffrey CHANCE)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: McDonalds Veggie burger
Date: 12 Dec 92 18:42:10 GMT
Organization: SOCS - Mcgill University, Montreal, Canada

tjfeue@bb1t.monsanto.com wrote:
>In today's paper, there is a story that McDonalds will start to 
>market a veggie burger in the Netherlands.  If it does well there,
>it will be marketed worldwide.

That's great to hear. I had heard something about McDonald's
doing this before, can't remember where. I hope the veggie
burger is successful so that it will be offered everywhere.

Jeff
--------------------------------------------------------------
|    Jeff Chance                       | That to which you   |
|    Dept. of Chemistry                | give your attention |
|    McGill University, Montreal       | becomes stronger in |
|    MAIL: jeffjc@binkley.cs.mcgill.ca | your life.          |
--------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: young@serum.kodak.com (Rich Young)
Subject: Re: Medicine & the Mall
Originator: young@sasquatch
Reply-To: young@serum.kodak.com
Organization: Clinical Diagnostics Division, Eastman Kodak Company
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 01:37:13 GMT


	All responses to Mr. Gemar in this thread will, henceforth, be
	answered in e-mail, since the thread clearly does not belong in
	r.f.v. any longer adn Mr. Gemar does not read t.p.a.


-Rich Young (These are not Kodak's opinions.)
From: tms@cs.umd.edu (Tom Swiss (not Swift, not Suiss, Swiss!))
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Medicine & the Mall
Date: 14 Dec 92 17:24:38 GMT
Organization: The Reality Liberation Front (pixels to the people!)

dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
>>     How is it reasonable to lable behavior X "ethical" when performed
>>by a human, and not when performed by a chimp? That animals engage in
>>behavior that when performed by humans is called "ethical" (and by
>>this I mean ethically praiseworthy or heroic; exceptionally altruistic)
>>is, I believe, not in question.
>
>Let me assure you that it is.  I don't have the faintest idea what
>you're alluding to.

     Okay, let me give an example. I don't have it handy, so the
details may be wrong, but I read an excerpt from Carl Sagan's new
book, _Shadows of Forgotten Ancestors_. It describes an experiment
with (I think) orangutans, in which in order to be fed the orangutans
had to press a button which delivered a painful electrical shock to
another orangutan; the shock victim was within sight of the first
orangutan.  The majority of the orangutans would not press the button;
they would not harm their fellows, even though the alternative was
starvation.

===============================================================================
Tom Swiss/tms@cs.umd.edu  |  "Born to die"   |   Keep your laws off my brain!
     "What's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding?" - Nick Lowe 
                     Keep your values off my family.
      "There are some microorganisms that exhibit characteristics of
       both plants and animals.  When exposed to light, they undergo
       photosynthesis and when the lights go out, they turn into
       animals.  But then again, don't we all?"
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: mkay@sequent.com (Mary Kay Petersen)
Subject: Re: Veggie dip
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 92 20:40:16 GMT

blackb@spot.colorado.edu (Barbara Black) writes:

>I'm looking for a nofat/lofat dip (lacto okay) for fresh veggies.  It's for
>our annual Xmas party.  I always bring a veggie plate so I'll be sure to
>have something to eat.

>Thanks 

>Barbara

From December 1992 issue of Sunset magazine (page 156):

Curry Yogurt Dip
----------------
2 cups unflavored nonfat yogurt
2 teaspoons curry powder
2 teaspoons cumin seeds
1 teaspoon pepper
  salt

Mix yogurt, curry, cumin, pepper and salt to taste.  Pour into a small
bowl and serve, or cover and chill up to 1 week.  Makes 2 cups, 10 to
12 servings.

Per tablespoon: 9 cal. (10 percent from fat); 
                0.8 g protein; 0.1 g fat; (0 g sat.); 1.2 g carbo;
                11 mg sodium; 0.3 mg chol.

---
  /_ _   /		sequent computer system, inc.	+-----+
 / / /  /__/ __		15450 sw koll parkway		|   # |
/ / /  / \__(_/_/_/	beaverton, or  97006-6063	|     |
mary kay petersen/	mkay@sequent.com 		+-----+
(503)578-5817 __/
From: glen@slate.cs.wisc.edu (Glen Ecklund)
Subject: Re: McDonalds Veggie burger
Organization: U of Wisconsin Madison - Computer Sciences
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 16:58:51 GMT

flockoff@lincoln.ac.nz writes:

>Hi, I hope this gets through, as its my first try at posting.

It did.

>Our local McDs' here in New Zealand have been marketing a vege burger for
>some time now, and although its not a runaway success, its not doing
>too bad and my vege wife loves them.
>They basicly contain every vege they have out the back at McDs' plus 
>dressing and sauce.  They sell for about $2.50 NZ, while a Big Mac goes,
>for about $3.45 NZ here from memory.  They don't keep them on stock so
>you have to wait about 4 minutes while they make you one.
>As about the only investment needed by McDs' to sell these is a slide
>in sign for the price list and a box, I cant see that marketing them
>would be too much of a hassle for them, and it certainly couldn't do
>their image any harm.

Sounds like you're talking about a vegie sandwich, with no burger.
What people are asking for is a vegetarian burger (patty).
-- 
Every child shall be treated with complete respect.

Glen Ecklund     glen@cs.wisc.edu   (608) 262-1318 Office, 262-1204 Dept. Sec'y
Department of Computer Sciences        1210 W. Dayton St., Room 3355
University of Wisconsin, Madison       Madison, Wis. 53706  U.S.A.
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: Rosemary Waigh <rwaigh@zooid.guild.org>
Subject: Re: McDonalds Veggie burger
Reply-To: rwaigh@zooid.UUCP (Rosemary Waigh)
Organization: The Zoo of Ids
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 14:41:51 GMT


Maybe it's different in other parts of the world, but according to the
Toronto Vegetarian Handbook McDonald's french fries and hash browns are
par-fried in beef tallow oil before they reach the store, and then refried in
vegetable oil.

However, according to the same source, KFC fries are vegetarian, and they are
planning on introducing "a vegetarian battered product".
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: Greg_Dawson@mindlink.bc.ca (Greg Dawson)
Subject: Re: lacto-vegan burgers-- Yves
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 07:14:20 GMT

Hi all,

Here is the phone number and address of Yves Veggie Cuisine of Vancouver, BC:

Yves Veggie Cuisine
1138 East Georgia
Vancouver, BC
Canada
V6A 2A8

Ph: 604-251-1345

They make great veggie hot dogs & burgers.

Shari Dawson

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: artemis@netcom.com (Michelle Dick)
Subject: Non-fried falafel (was: Lowfat French fries.. baking vs. frying
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 15:38:35 GMT

In article <168C073C3.VSANNICE@weizmann.weizmann.ac.il> VSANNICE@weizmann.weizmann.ac.il (Annice Grinberg) writes:
>In article <1992Dec14.150422.1287@hou.amoco.com>
>zkym02@hou.amoco.com (Keerthi Y. McIntosh) writes:

>>Has anyone figured out a good way to make Felaful in the oven?

>I just form plump patties instead of balls from the mixture, and
>bake on a greased or non-stick pan at about 400F till they seem done.
>They're not as good as the fried ones but so much healthier, and quite
>adequate.  I've even done them in the toaster oven.

Hmmm, I'll definately have to try this.  Anyone got any favorite
falafel recipes?  From scratch, I mean.

--
Michelle Dick
artemis@netcom.com
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Vegetarian stores in So.Cal.
From: cvalj001@vmsb.is.csupomona.edu
Date: 17 Dec 92 16:06:40 PST
Organization: California State Polytechnic University, Pomona
Nntp-Posting-User: cvalj001


     Does anyone know of any really good health food stores or co-ops in the
San Gabriel Valley area of Southern California?  I live in Diamond Bar and most
of the stores I've been to just sel vitamins, etc.  Is there any place like the
STAFF OF LIFE in Santa Cruz, CA?  That is to say, a large enough place that
carries bulk grains, nuts, food, etc. and other products that allows one to do
most of their shopping there.  None of the local places carry bulk vegetables
or fruits and they carry only some bulk grains.
Thanks in advance!

-- 
---
Daemon E. Hobbs, Cadet, AFROTC
Senior, (Carto/RS/GIS) 
Cal Poly Pomona Geography Dept.
Email: cvalj001@csupomona.edu
Phone: 714-869-3590
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: tara@starburst.umd.edu (Tara McDermott)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: US Publications
Date: 18 Dec 92 04:51:46 GMT

tara@starburst.umd.edu (Tara McDermott) writes:

>Some good magazines to subscribe to are "the Animals Agenda", and
>"Vegetarian Times", and maybe even "E: the Environmental Magazine".

Hagop Janoyan requested that I explain Animal's Agenda and E to him.
The Animal's Agenda is a magazine concerned with animal rights issues.
The main reason I get this magazine is for the rather extensive news
section.  It gives clips on pretty much any type of event pertaining
to the animal rights network.  This includes protests, legislation,
future events, conferences, groups, human interest stories and the
like.  There are also articles throughout the magazine.  In the past,
I have tended to not bother reading them, because they haven't been
written that well.  The style tended to be very circumspect, and
disorganized.  I think that they will improve greatly, since the
Editor and one other employee have left to "pursue other endeavors".
Hunting issues, Feral animals, Endangered Species, Spay/Neuter
problems, Factory Farming... those are the type of articles you would
find there.

E: The Environmental Magazine is all about environmental issues.  The
articles are well written, and timely.  It is not quite like Garbage
though.  They tend to deal with large issues like Urban problems.  One
issue dealt with the EPA - giving a timeline history of who has been
in charge, and what they accomplished (ending with a critique of the
latest person from the Bush administration - he obviously has done a
dreadful job, which they go into detail about).  That's all that comes
to mind right now.  If anyone wishes, I can take a closer look at it.
I haven't really read that much of it, unfortunately.  Been busy with
other things, like cooking!

Hope this helps...
--
Tara McDermott               
tara@starburst.umd.edu       
I eat tofu, and I vote.
From: brigid@geovax.ed.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Veggie restaurants in Paris
Date: 15 Dec 92 13:50:16 GMT
Organization: University of Edinburgh, Geography Department.

Would anyone with knowledge of any (if there are any) vegetarian
restaurants in the centre of Paris please e-mail the details to 
me.

Many thanks,

Brigid
brigid@geovax.edinburgh.ac.uk
From: exusag@exu.ericsson.se (Serena Gilbert,cs,x0364)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: "Sausage"
Date: 14 Dec 92 14:48:33 GMT
Reply-To: exusag@exu.ericsson.se
Organization: Ericsson Network Systems, Inc.
X-Disclaimer: This article was posted by a user at Ericsson.
              Any opinions expressed are strictly those of the
              user and not necessarily those of Ericsson.

Does anyone have a reciepe for making "Sausage" with TVP?  I am looking for a spicy
"sausage" that holds together.

Thanks,

-Serena
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: tjfeue@bb1t.monsanto.com
Subject: Re: Lowfat French fries
Organization: Monsanto Company, St. Louis, MO
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 21:05:42 GMT

In article <27930@dog.ee.lbl.gov>, jane@tortoise.ee.lbl.gov (Jane Colman) writes:
> In article <Bz2GIL.HyC@rice.edu> cathyf@is.rice.edu (Catherine Anne Foulston) writes:
>>Someday I am going to come up with a low-fat way to fix potatoes that
>>is vegan and will satisfy those of us with french fry cravings.
> 
> You can get a pretty good approximation by cutting up potatoes like
> french fries, brushing them with a very little bit of oil, and baking
> them at a fairly high temperature for a while, turning them over in
> the middle of the cooking time.  You're not likely to get them this
> way from a fast food place, though.

Monsanto recently developed a strain of potato that has considerably
less water content and a considerably greater starch content.  Since
the water in a french fry is replaced with oil during cooking, this
potato will hold a proportionately less amount of oil after cooking,
thus making a healthier french fry as well as containing more food.

I'm a consultant doing a job for them and not a Monsanto employee,
but jeeze they're sure doing some neat things with food crops here.

Ted Feuerbach - Scientific Systems Consultant
Disclaimer:     Monsanto didn't say this, I did!
Stupid Quote:   Money is simply alcohol in a 
                more easily transportable form.
                                            - Me

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar)
Subject: Re: A confession
Keywords: veggie
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 05:55:22 GMT

timothy.d.george writes in the wry :-)

>I confess.
>There are no real vegetarians. Those who claim they are vegetarians are lying
>to others or to themselves.

>The scientific evidence is in: a vegetarian diet will kill you in 127 days
>(a proven FACT). A vegan diet will kill you in 95 days (not proven, but well
>known, and anyway it's vegetarian so 127 days stands.)

Ah, that explains why I am here in hell!  To think I was still
fit and alive as a vegetarian  :-(



>Like many who post to rec.food.veg, I used to claim I was a vegetarian: I 
>thought I was. Most of you are probably misled that way.

>My wife finally confronted me with the hideous truth: I was sleep-walking to 
>the local burger chain each night and scarfing down burgers. At first I denied
>it, just like I ignored the FACT that vegetarian diets kill you. Then, after
>years of therapy, I admitted my weakness and admitted that vegetarians don't 
>exist.
. . .

Is this kind of like the connundrum of the butterfly who dreamt
it was a human, and the human who dreamt she was a vegetarian?

Therapy is indeed a marvellous thing; helps us to be introduced
to more of ourselves and be a little more comfortable with "reality".
As T.S. Eliot said:

	"Human kind 
	Cannot bear very much reality"
	     [from BURNT NORTON]

That vegetarian reality indeed is hard to bear  :-)

Yes, let us all undergo a little self-analysis.  You know what they
say about the benefits of good therapy? To wit: therapy helps us to 
live with our unhappiness without committing suicide!  :-) :-(  :-)

P.S.  The two smilies sandwiching the sad face represents
        "black humour"   :-)

					Happy Holiday Season,
						ted
From: das@voodoo.boeing.com (Deb Schwartz)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Lowfat French fries.. baking vs. frying
Date: 17 Dec 92 23:18:25 GMT
Organization: Yet Another Graphics Project, Bellevue, WA

In article <168C073C3.VSANNICE@weizmann.weizmann.ac.il> VSANNICE@weizmann.weizmann.ac.il (Annice Grinberg) writes:
>In article <1992Dec14.150422.1287@hou.amoco.com>
>zkym02@hou.amoco.com (Keerthi Y. McIntosh) writes:
>
>>
>>
>>Has anyone figured out a good way to make Felaful in the oven?  It is a family favorite but I stopped making it because of the fry
>>
>>Thanks in advance,
>>
>I just form plump patties instead of balls from the mixture, and
>bake on a greased or non-stick pan at about 400F till they seem done.
>They're not as good as the fried ones but so much healthier, and quite
>adequate.  I've even done them in the toaster oven.
>
I also do this, and it works really well.  They make great 'burgers, on
a whole wheat bun with all the fixins'.  For you Northern Exposure fans,
the Roslyn Cafe serves a tasty falafel burger.
------
Debbie Schwartz // das@voodoo.ca.boeing.com  // ....uw-beaver!bcsaic!voodoo!das

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: mhulsey@hestia.fcs.uga.edu (Martin Hulsey)
Subject: Re: Animal Research - A hazard to health
Followup-To: rec.food.veg
Organization: Dept. Foods & Nutrition, Univ. of GA
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 17:08:33 GMT

In article <tara.724439694@starburst.umd.edu>, tara@starburst.umd.edu (Tara
McDermott) wrote:

[post deleted]

Tara, you have obviously spent much time preparing this.  I will prepare an
equally thorough rebuttal, and you will probably see it in early January.

--
mhulsey@hestia.fcs.uga.edu                      Society for Neuroscience
Martin G. Hulsey                              National Rifle Association
Dept. Foods & Nutrition      Society for the Study of Ingestive Behavior
University of Ga.    North American Association for the Study of Obesity
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: wheeler@super.org (Ferrell S. Wheeler)
Subject: Secret Life of Plants (Excerpt)
Organization: Supercomputing Research Center (Bowie, MD)
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 19:26:46 GMT


[The following quote should allow rec.food.veg readers to begin
to evaluate the scientific merits of the book "The Secret Life
of Plants" which inevitably creeps into misguided discussions
of ethical vegetarianism.  I believe this was originally posted
in another newsgroup in order to supply a good laugh.  The
emphases were added by the original poster. --Ferrell Wheeler]


The following is a quote from "THE SECRET LIFE OF PLANTS", 
[See Footnote.], by Peter Tompkins and Christopher Bird, 1973, page 38: 
          
          ....."As Sauvin's main problem remained that of getting his 
          plants to be sharply attuned to his person rather than to 
          their immediate environment, when he was away for several 
          days, he had to devise some means of attracting his plants' 
          attention even more effectively than addressing them over the 
          long-distance phone.  As his plants reacted most strongly to 
          any damage done to himself or to any part of his own energy 
          field, he experimented with remotely killing a few cells of 
          his body in the presence of the plants.  The system worked 
          admirably.  The problem was to obtain cells that would remain 
          alive for protracted periods.  Blood worked well enough, hair 
          was difficult to kill, but sperm worked best of all, because, 
          as Sauvin explained, it was easier to obtain than bleeding, 
          and much less painful. 

               "These experiments led Sauvin to wonder if plants might 
          not react just as well to emotions of pleasure and joy as to 
          pain and shock.  Not only was he tired of shocking himself, 
          he was afraid that repeated shocks to his plants, even 
          indirect ones, might be UNPLEASANTLY LOADING HIS KARMA.  
          Sauvin soon found that his plants did react to joy and 
          pleasure, but with wave patterns that were not sharp enough 
          to trigger a switch reliably.  Undaunted, Sauvin decided on a 
          more daring experiment.  DURING A HOLIDAY WITH A GIRL FRIEND 
          AT HIS LAKESIDE COTTAGE HE ESTABLISHED THAT HIS PLANTS, 
          EIGHTY MILES AWAY, WOULD REACT WITH VERY HIGH PEAKS ON THE 
          TONE OSCILLATOR TO THE ACUTE PLEASURE OF [his] SEXUAL CLIMAX, 
          GOING RIGHT OFF THE TOP AT THE MOMENT OF ORGASM.  All of 
          which was very interesting and could be turned into a 
          COMMERCIALLY MARKETABLE DEVICE FOR JEALOUS WIVES TO MONITOR 
          THEIR PHILANDERING HUSBANDS, BY MEANS OF A POTTED 
          BEGONIA.".... 
          
          
          Footnote: Chapter 17 is about BIOLOGICAL TRANSMUTATIONS.
                    Chapters 19 and 20 are about RADIONICS/PSIONICS.

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: ph@pencom.com (Patrick Hester)
Subject: Re: Help with non-perishable snacks for New Vegan
Reply-To: ph@pencom.com
Organization: Pencom Systems Incorporated
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 19:19:11 GMT

In article <Bz14Cz.5xL@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca> molnar@Bisco.CAnet.CA (Tom  
Molnar) writes:

> Granola ain't low fat.  Not even close.

Is this true?
I make my own out of oats, dried fruit, spices and honey.
Oh yeah, sometimes I DO throw in coconut...

--
Patrick Hester   ph@pencom.com   (212) 513-7777   NeXT Mail OK   =8(\/\)
Organization: Fifth yr. senior, English, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA