Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Wednesday, 18 Nov 1992 13:19:32 CST
From: <U30644@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats
Subject: Re: broken kittens leg!!!!( Latins and animal cruelty )
 <1992Nov12.234153.24416@infonode.ingr.com> <0f2E2DW00WBOA19roU@andrew.cmu.edu>
 <41170@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> <92323.095004U30644@uicvm.uic.edu>

Regarding Matt Harrington's response:

>Regarding Joel Sanchez's article:

>Well, I surely didn't mean to be a racist, but I do think that
>criticism about other cultures is not necessarily racist.

>Where have I "heard" this information?  My other roommate is a Latin
>American History graduate student and has traveled frequently in
>that region.  He has seen first hand the abuses that animals suffer
>even with children.  He has one story of a puppy being smashed by an
>approximately 50 pound rock by a child barely strong enough to lift
>the rock.

Oh, well I guess a history student who has "traveled to the region"
(incidentally, Latin America comprises a number of countries; you
never say WHICH ONE these "obervances" have taken place in) is
qualified to help make blanket statements about a whole culture's
attitude towards animals.  I have been going to Mexico since my birth
and have seen much more cruelty in THIS country towards animals than
I ever saw there.  You are still basing your comments on SECONDHAND
INFORMATION, which is irresponsible.  Have YOU PERSONALLY ever seen
any of these instances of cruelty?  I have seen little kids in the
U.S. hang up cats by their tails and throw them against walls.  Does
that mean that my conclusion (which is based on FIRSTHAND OBSERVATION)
is that most American children are generally cruel to animals?  What
about declawing and ear clipping?  Some people would call this cruelty.
Animal testing (i.e, cosmetics, car safety testing) could also be
called cruel.

>Also, a relative takes in boarders, and she once took in someone
>from South America.  He was abusive towards her dog to the point
>that he was unwelcome in the house.

So?  This just proves that the guy was an asshole.

>The kitty-abuser living with me now has told stories of her family
>smuggling endangered Amazonian monkeys into New York City by
>tranquilizing them and putting them in their suitcase.  They
>sometimes survive the trip only to perish in the decidely
>un-tropical clime of Long Island.

Yes.  Another instance of cruel treatment of animals.  Completely
unforgivable.  But what does this say about the INDIVIDUALS?  This
PERSON and her FAMILY are cruel.  What are you waiting for?  Move
out, or kick her out.  If your situation is bothering you as much
as you say it is, do something about it.

>And, I would not consider myself a racist by pointing out that the
>Latin tradition of BULL FIGHTING certainly is not humane treatment
>of animals.

No one accused you of being a racist.  Just irresponsible.  Bull
fighting is certainly not "humane" but it is intimately connected
with ritual and culture.  Again, I suggest learning a bit about
the culture.  Hunting with high powered rifles isn't humane either,
but the animal hunted doesn't really have much of a chance to defend
itself, does it?

>I try not to make "ignorant and uninformed statements", as you say,
>and I do not think that I have done so.

Yes you have.  I suggest going to the Latin American country of your
choice and observing firsthand how "Latins" treat their animals.  You'd
be pleasantly surprised.

Joel Sanchez
University of Illinois at Chicago