HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bob@cadnetix.COM (Bob Hamel)
Subject: Re: 2 draft questions
Reply-To: bob@dazix.COM (Bob Hamel)
Organization: Daisy/Cadnetix Corp.,  Boulder, CO
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 21:04:14 GMT

In article <Nov18.160956.47422@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> wayman@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Jeffrey Wayman) writes:
>(2) Why in the world would the Denver Post fail to print lists of the
>    players drafted?  I'm telling you, Denver is baseball hell.

Well, I think the Post did print lists of players drafted. In fact, they had a
special 8 page section on the draft. Maybe you didn't get to see the whole
paper.


Bob Hamel     / Dazix-Intergraph / 5101 Spine Rd. / Boulder, CO. 80301
bob@sunbox.dazixco.ingr.com / Hey Now! /
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: dae@cbnews.cb.att.com (david.a.elliott)
Subject: Re: Jose Lind to the Royals for prospects - WHY?
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 21:17:53 GMT

In article <1992Nov20.154812@mccall.com> scott@mccall.com (Scott D. Davis) writes:
>
>In article <20NOV199214574978@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu>, camden@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu (Rany Jazayerli) writes:
>>	Whoa.  Wait a second.  Miller to third????  Aside from the fact that
>>Miller has never played 3rd base regularly (at least at the major-league
>>level),I have just one slight problem with that.  His name is Gregg Jefferies.
>>Calling him a third baseman may be a stretch (calling him a Lansford may be
>>more appropriate), but he's the best hitter on the team, and he's only 25.
>>What the hell would you accomplish by moving Miller to third?  I guess that
>>means Jefferies would head to left field or something.
>>
>>	I honestly think that the new arrangement(s) are a little worse than
>>the old one.  Defensively there is an improvement, But offensively this
>>sucks.  Lind can NOT hit, nowhere near the level of a replacement-level
>>right-fielder (Kevin Koslofski, by the way, is a 24-year-old prospect who
>>hit around .300-.310 in AAA this year- could probably hit .270 with some
>>walks and doubles.  Better than Lind, anyway.)

>I think this is the Royals problem....lack of offense.  But Herk made some
>comment about "shoring up the middle infield".

This is so typical of the Royals' front office.  Let's see, KC finished
4th in the league in "defense" last year (runs allowed), and finished 12th
in "offense" (runs scored).  Obviously, they'd better shore up that defense.

Do they really think that they can field a winning team that scores LESS
than last year's version?  A lineup  with Lind, Howard, McRae, and no power
hitter will not be able to win, even with the best pitching and defense in
the league (which the Royals will not have either).

What next?


Dave Elliott
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: kbanaian@bernard.pitzer.claremont.edu (King Banaian)
Subject: Re: ESPN TO TELEVISE EXP. DRAFT
Organization: Pitzer College
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 19:24:36 GMT

In article <17110175@hpkslx.mayfield.HP.COM> oz@hpkslx.mayfield.HP.COM (Kent Ostby) writes:
>For those of you who haven't heard, ESPN will be televising the expansion
>draft on November 17th TUESDAY from 2 PM to 9 PM EASTERN TIME.
>
>Personally I'm takeing the day off to watch it with some other Rotiserre
>Freaks.
>
Well, some of us have to work.  Would anyone be able to post draft results 
here as it happens?  I can sneak a peek during the day.

Sparky

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: sgs@stein.u.washington.edu (Steven Smith)
Subject: Re: Mitchell for Charlton and other trades.
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 20:08:18 GMT

In article <1992Nov20.170529.16421@cs.cornell.edu> tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer) writes:
>In article <1992Nov20.082008.337@netcom.com> arrow@netcom.com (Les Arrow) writes:
>>
>>Sure. Briley really hasn't been given a chance to play so I think it is
>>unfair to use his .320 career OBP against him yet.
>
>HUH????  Briley has almost 1500 career PA.  And he's 27.  Sounds fair
>to me!  Actually, he hit quite well in 1989.  He simply hasn't done
>*anything* since then.  I think a .320 OBP is a bit much to expect
>right now.
>
>Sure, if there is nobody else around, give him a shot to play.  But
>don't make him the leadoff hitter!
>
>I might consider a lineup of:
>Boone
>Vizquel
>E. Martinez
>Griffey
... ad nauseum

Thanks for depressing me even more, Ted.  I guess they could give Boone a try 
at leadoff, but he'd have to change the swing-from-the-heels he used to such
(bad) effect in his first month and a half in the Bigs.  If not, he might
walk even less than Pee Wee(!). 

I don't think there are any leadoff prospects in the system, either. The one 
guy who might have had a shot was first-round expansion draft booby prize
Jesus Tavarez, now a Marlin prospect. The M's have already inquired with
the other M's about retrieving Tavarez in a trade, but Florida was apparently
asking for too much pitching.

It's going to take a ton of Nintendo money to field a competitive team in 1993.
Besides the gaping hole in the leadoff spot, they could also use some right-
handed power (familiar Seattle refrain).  Not to mention two starting pitchers.
One of the starters could be Scott Bankhead, who's not too bad, but I'm looking
for the M's to fill the other holes with Scott Sanderson and Candy Maldonado.

Gosh darn, but it's fun to be a Mariner fan.

--Steve
-- 
 sgs@u.washington.edu             * "The boys with cars want motorcycles
 Steve Smith                      *  and the boys with motorcycles want
 University of Washington HR-20   *  cars!"
 Seattle, WA 98195                *    --D. Wiggin-"Philosophy of the World"
From: dxf12@po.CWRU.Edu (Douglas Fowler)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Trade Clemens?
Date: 20 Nov 1992 22:46:47 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: dxf12@po.CWRU.Edu (Douglas Fowler)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc12.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, fass@math.uwaterloo.ca (The FASS Theatre Company) says:

>In article <1992Nov19.105843.10462@netcom.com> arrow@netcom.com (Les Arrow) writes:
>>In article <wall-181192165750@elvis.swarthmore.edu> wall@cc.swarthmore.edu (Swarthmore College Computing Center) writes:
> 
>[stuff about the ineptitude of Red Sox upper management deleted]
>
>>Ok, so what next? Trade Clemens?
>>--Les
>
>Is trading Clemens a bad idea?  Currently, Clemens is arguably the 
>best pitcher in baseball and his market value would be incredibly high.
>From the performace of the Sox this year, and rumblings from various 
>disgruntled Red Sox fans, I'm guessing they could use an infusion of youth.
>I'm not sure of the Rocket's age but he has been around for a while and
>will most likely decline in 3 or so years (then again he could be another
>Ryan).   The Sox need to rebuild and this would be a viable way to do
>it.
>
>Okay.  Now that I've caused all die hard Red Sox fans to put contracts
>out on my life for thinking such a thought, let's say you had to trade
>Roger.  What is the Rocket's market value?  What should the Sox get in
>return for the best pitcher in baseall?

     I'm not a Sox fan but I'll bite.
     Clemens and Phil Palntier to the Braves for Ryan Klesko, Jeff Blauser,
Keith Mitchell, Pete Smith, and Dave Justice.  THe Sox could throw in a
minor leaguer or 2, and perhaps someone like Scott Zupcic..  I picture Blauser
challenging at one of the middle infield positions.  He can hit pretty well
for a middle infielder.
     I don't know much about the Sox' minor leagues, and I'm afraid I've
kind of lost track of lots of minor leaguers, but I think this trade is
workable.
-- 
Doug Fowler: dxf12@po.CWRU.edu  : Me, age 4 & now: "Mommys and Daddys & other
   "Thou shalt love God with all: relatives have to give lots of hugs & love
thy heart...*and thy neighbor as: & support, 'cause Heaven is just a great
thyself*." Deut. 6:5            : big hug that lasts forever and ever!!!"
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: nissim@mary.fordham.edu (Leonard J. Nissim)
Subject: Re: 'A League of Their Own"
Organization: Fordham University
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 13:46:00 GMT
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
X-Posted-From: mary.fordham.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1e9t6gINNm16@sol.deakin.OZ.AU>, terence@deakin.oz.au writes...
>This is my first post, so I hope I don't make a fool of myself!
>But
>Did anyone notice in "A League of Their Own" towards the end of the film, where
>the player took a foul fly and fell in the dugout?
> 
>The player on first should have been moved to second, because the rule states
>that if a player falls into the dugout after taking a fly, then all baserunners
>advance one base.
> 
>I hope this has not already been covered in this newsgroup.
> 
>PS: I am a baseball umpire here in Australia, and have just been added to the
>Australian Baseball League panel. (Still awaiting my first appointment!) 

There is another technical flaw in this film.  In one scene, an outfielder 
catches a fly ball in her hat, and this apparently is counted as an out.  The
rules clearly state that no piece of clothing or equipment (except the fielder's
glove on the fielder's hand) may be used to catch a ball.  
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Leonard Nissim, notorious Dodger fanatic     (nissim@mary.fordham.edu)  
Disclaimer:  "I speak only for myself."   
World Championships:  Brooklyn-----1955   
                      Los Angeles--1959  1963  1965  1981  1988
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: gerry@macadam.mpce.mq.edu.au (Gerry Myerson)
Subject: Seemingly unbreakable records
Originator: gerry@macadam.mpce.mq.edu.au
Organization: School of MPCE, Macquarie University, Australia.
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 00:29:00 GMT

Among the records that HAVE been broken, which ones lasted the longest? 

Babe Ruth's single season home run record lasted 34 years. 

His career home run record did better; it wasn't broken for 39 years. 

Cobb's career record for games stood up for 46 years. 

Walter Johnson's lifetime strikeout total was unchallenged for 56 years. 

Cy Young's record for appearances held up for 57 years, as did Cobb's career hits record. 

And Billy Hamilton's career stolen base record was unsurpassed for 78 years. 

Do you know any records that lasted longer than this, but that were, eventually, broken? I know one, but it's a bit more obscure than any of those mentioned above, so I'll hold onto it while I see what the net comes up with. 

Gerry Myerson
From: demers@cs.ucsd.edu (David DeMers)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Predictions '93
Date: 23 Nov 92 19:06:58 GMT
Organization: CSE Dept., UC San Diego


In article <1992Nov23.000419.11307@Princeton.EDU>, niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent) writes:
|> In<1eloovINN6gk@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> dxf12@po.CWRU.Edu (Douglas Fowler) writes:

|> 
|> Well, the Cards got rid of Galarraga, which ought to add 20 or 30 wins to
|> their team right there.  But they're losing one of their better hitters
|> in Ozzie, and I'm not sure who's going to playing first for them, now.

Probably Rod Brewer...


|> Montreal is probably the best team, though.

Looks like it to me.


|> San Diego is quite overrated. 

And they are on a downturn.  Sherman will probably be an improvement
on Clark, though he has little power.  McDavid is still at least a year
away.  They are likely going to get rid of Hurst and Darrin Jackson for
salary reasons.  They will put out a team of

|> McGriff, Sheffield, and Gwynn

with AAA supporting players



|> The ChiSox have a good, but very unbalanced team.  Their 1b, 3b, and lf
|> are good.  So's their shortstop, but they're too dumb to play him, I
|> bet.  Their dh is incredibly overrated, and average at best.  Their
|> catcher, too.  Their 2b, cf, and rf are pathetic, though.  If they'd
|> play the right people (Cora, Grebeck, Newson) they'd be better.

I wonder if Newson has a cause of action against management of
San Diego for not promoting him...  he's lost his chance at a 
career, I bet.  I don't think he is or was HOF material, but 
he's been capable of being an above average OF for at least 3 years.
I picked him up in 1988 just drooling over what he'd do in
the Murph, but suffered through Jefferson, Abner, Clark etc

Fah!

-- 
Dave DeMers			 ddemers@UCSD   demers@cs.ucsd.edu
Computer Science & Engineering	C-014		demers%cs@ucsd.bitnet
UC San Diego					...!ucsd!cs!demers
La Jolla, CA 92093-0114	(619) 534-0688, or -8187, FAX: (619) 534-7029
From: paul@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Paul R Krueger)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Intelligent GMs...
Date: 23 Nov 1992 18:49:31 GMT
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4

>Well, after the draft I'm not about to suggest John Schuerholz.  Intelligent
>GMs are harder to find than power hitting shortstops who walk.
   
   Well, it's only been a year, but I believe Sal Bando has the makings
   of a very good GM. Made great pickups of Scott Fletcher and Kevin Seitzer
   this year, and also Fetters and Orosco. Got out of the draft virtually
   unscathed. Holmes is a good pitcher, but not a great prospect. Tatum
   isn't very young and can't play D, Tabaka is 28 and has never pitched
   above AA. Trading Bichette for Riemer was a great move. Left-handed
   power is one of Milwaukee's only major weaknesses. The jury is still out,
   but I believe selecting Phil Garner as a manager has also been a great
   decision.

   --salty
From: jplee@zeus.calpoly.edu (Jason Lee)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Rules regarding placement of fielders
Date: 19 Nov 92 01:21:18 GMT
Organization: California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo

Rule 4.03

When the ball is put in play at the start of, or during a game, all fielders
other than the catcher shall be on fair territory.

(a) The catcher shall station himself directly back of the plate.  He may
leave his position at any time to catch a pitch or make a play except that
when the batter is being given an intentional base on balls, the catcher
must stand with both feet within the lines of the catcher's box until the
ball leaves the pitcher's hand.
PENALTY:  Balk.

(b) The pitcher, while in the act of delivering the ball to the batter,
shall take his legal position;

(c) Except the pitcher and the catcher, any fielder may station himself
anywhere in fair territory;

(d) Except the batter, or a runner attempting to score, no offensive player
shall cross the catcher's lines when the ball is in play.

-- 
Jason Lee
jplee@poseidon.calpoly.edu
GO ROCKIES 1993
Baylor for President
From: gt9911a@prism.gatech.EDU (.     .X.     .)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Marlins fans are merely jealous...
Date: 20 Nov 92 17:09:41 GMT
Organization: Somewhere near nowhere

In article <steph.722219555@pegasus.cs.uiuc.edu> steph@pegasus.cs.uiuc.edu (Dale Stephenson) writes:
>In <1992Nov19.080417.29342@cs.cornell.edu> tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer) writes:
>
>>Admiteddly the Marlins *do* have Harvey and Weiss.  At that, I'm not
>>convinced that their team salary is as high as that of the Rockies.
>
>An expensive closer with arm problems and the Atlanta Braves -- a match
>made in heaven.  He can have his pitcher hung in the Atlanta sports hall
>of fame right next to Bruce Sutter...

NOOOOOOOOOOO. We do not need a high paid closer. I say give the closer job
to Stanton. He is pitching great. I think Braves should not go for a trade
to get some high paid closer. Atleast it has not worked till now. Al Pena 
came from METS and was expected to be a setup man. But he turned to be a good
closer. If Scherholtz makes a trade for Harvey, he should be hanged somewhere.

sundar
gt9911a@prism.gatech.edu 
From: oz@hpkslx.mayfield.HP.COM (Kent Ostby)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 17:58:22 GMT
Subject: Re: Houston Protected List
Organization: HP Response Center Lab
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball

Yes I would definitely protect Doug Jones for the psyche of the team.  I think
it's quite possible that the Rocks or Marlins would do a draft and trade
with Doug Jones.

As for Todd Jones vs Jimmy Jones....if anybody knows this answer would they
please post about this.  Todd Jones makes a TON more sense than Jimmy does.

Oz
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: lsmith@peca.cs.umn.edu (Lance "Squiddie" Smith)
Subject: Re: Kirby Puckett
Organization: The Little Twin Squids of the Poor
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 02:08:08 GMT

In article <By6upx.Awv@ns1.nodak.edu> graftaas@plains.NoDak.edu (Eric Graftaas) writes:
>Let me just say that the real MVP of the American League is Kirby Puckett
>of the Minnesota  Twins. Nobody can outplay him. He's probably the best
>player in baseball.  To all of you in Chicago-- Forget it Kirby is going
>to stay here. 

First, let just take this opportunity to say that you're right about
Chicago. Some high-muck-a-mucks within the White Sox organization have said
that they will no be trying to sign Puckett. Their reason was that he was
too old for a long term contract.

On the MVP vote, I dunno. Kirby had one of his better years and he's still
not a liability in the outfield. However, I'd be inclined to rate several
players ahead of him. Certainly The Big Hurt if no one else. 
 
>I'm going out a limb and saying that Minnesota will be in the 1993 World
>Series. Look at their probable line up.

Aaaaarrrrrrgggggghhhhhhhh! Are you trying to jinx the Twinkees utterly? No
woofing before Spring training opens.

>1st Hrbek
>2nd Knoblauch
>ss  Leius
>3rd Boggs
>LF  Mack
>CF  Puckett               Looks like the core of World Champs
>RF  Munoz
>C   Harper
>SP  Smiley
>    Tapani
>    Erickson
>    Mahomes
>    Banks
>RP  Aguilera

I don't think the Twins would be willing to sign Boggs, Smiley and Puckett.
Two at the most. Maybe one. If Boggs were cheap, I'd say he was worth the
gamble, but his price tag may be too high for a player I expect to decline.

Puckett will probably be back. Without winning the AL West the Twinks need
someone to attract the fans and Kirbeeeee can still put Scandanavian butts
in seats. I just hope that the glut of free agents does depress the 
market slightly so the Twins don't have to sell the future to keep him.

Smiley is the player I'd go after. His price is competitive. The only problem
is the 4-year contract. 4 years is still a bit of a gamble for a pitcher.  

So put Leius at short and Jorgenson at 3rd. Play some no-hit utility 
infielder like Reboulet when you need to give these two breaks. Then wait
and see if the young infield talent in the minors develops quickly. 

The only other change I'd make is put Willie Banks in Fort Wayne and use
Trombley as the third pitcher. (Smiley, Tapani, Trombley, Erickson, Mahomes
as the starting rotation.) Oh and hide David West where he'll never be 
seen again by Sid Hartman.

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: hora@ecf.toronto.edu (HO ROBERT ANDREW)
Subject: Re: Mitchell for Charlton and other trades.
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 04:21:58 GMT

In article <1992Nov22.025149.818@netcom.com> arrow@netcom.com (Les Arrow) writes:
>>Putting Edgar Martinez there is not "wasting" him.  When you've got a
>>guy that can put up a .400 OBP, it isn't wasting him to lead him off.
>>If it's his power you're worrying about, don't.  He doesn't have that
>>much.  This year was clearly a fluke; he's never displayed this much
>>power before ever.  For his career, he has less power than Rickey, and
>>you don't see too many people complaining that it's a waste to use him
>>at leadoff.
>>
>
>Edgar Martinez = Slow.
>
>Edgar Martinez is not Rickey Henderson. He won't steal more than 50 bases
>each year. He doesn't motor around the bases as fast. He doesn't worry
>pitchers when he's on first because they know he isn't going anywhere.
>Edgar Martinez will have trouble scoring runs because you need a triple to
>get him in from first base. See Wade Boggs.
>

Boggs scored 100+ runs in seven straight seasons, so I don't think he had
*that* much trouble scoring runs.  The most important aspect of a leadoff
hitter is OBP and speed is a poor substitute (see Vince Coleman).  Of 
course Henderson has both (and power to boot) which has made him the best
leadoff hitter ever.  But if Martinez can get on base over 40% of the time
(and he can) he will make a great leadoff hitter.

>If Edgar can hit .300 with doubles power, they need him in the middle
>of the lineup. Since he makes good contact, he's a good hit and run man
>when there is someone fast on in front of him. To compare him to Rickey
>Henderson is ridiculous.
>

If Martinez can hit for power and have a great OBP like he did this year,
then the optimal place for him to be would be the no. 3 slot, where he can
get on for the power guys in slots 4 and 5 and also drive in the guys 
hitting leadoff and second.  However, if optimizing the lineup requires
Martinez to hit leadoff for lack of anyone else being able to get on base,
I wouldn't consider it a waste -- it just wouldn't be an optimal use of his
talent (that is if he is truly a .500 slugger which he probably isn't).


-- 
Robert Ho
Univ. of Toronto
hora@ecf.toronto.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: creative managing
From: jimbo@csusb
Date: 18 Nov 92 20:04:15 PST
Organization: California State University, San Bernardino
Nntp-Posting-User: jimbo

Article by Don@Island.com(DonHermes) dated 11-17
writes:
>Sam McDowell of the Indians in the late sixties played
>a third of an inning against the Yankees at second base....

All I want to say to Don is THANK YOU!  For years I have
been telling people about seeing Sam McDowell play second
base when I was a youngster and all I got is weird looks.
Now I have confirmation.  Of course, my friends may think
this is part of a greater conspirancy. :-)

Tony Ardelean
Cal State University, San Bernardino
From: sieferme@stein.u.washington.edu (Eric Sieferman)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Mitchell for Charlton and other trades.
Date: 23 Nov 92 19:51:11 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <ataylor.722283512@uclagsm> ataylor@agsm.ucla.edu (Al Taylor) writes:
>
>Why not Cotto? I beleive that given a full time spot in the Outfield that
>he would make an excellent lead off man. Good batting, great speed and
>(I'm pretty sure on this) his slugging percentage was pretty close if not
>better then Buhner (over rated)-not because he hits the ball out of the
>park, but because he hits the ball more often.

When Cotto has had long periods of full-time play, his batting
deteriorates steadily.  He is an excellent fourth-outfielder, and
might do well as a platoon player, but if he is the everyday
right-fielder at the beginning of the season we'll be sad
by June.

-- 
| Eric Sieferman            |    sieferme@u.washington.edu          |
| U. of W., M.C.I.S.        |    (206) 685-3104                     |
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball