HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: arodgers@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Angus H Rodgers)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: "Straight Suck"
Date: 20 Dec 92 20:29:35 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept, QMW, University of London

In <1h1bmhINN1vr@agate.berkeley.edu> mlloyd@ocf.berkeley.edu (M. Lloyd) writes:

>rsr@soda.berkeley.edu (Roy S. Rapoport) writes:
>>hetbashing graffiti: It's about time.

>S'funny.  I was just thinking that (although not for the first time) on
>my subway ride home tonight.  All these Marlboro ads of Clint Eastwood
>style emotionless hard men, and every woman is either caring, nurturing,
>or most often simply decorative.  I look at that backdrop, then watch
>the people (especially couples) around me on the platform, acting out
>these roles which to them seem like Natural Law, and to my jaundiced
>(enlightened?) eyes they seem like wooden, hollow formulas.  The phrase
>for daubing that ran around my head was "Gender roles suck".  

I'm still toying with, "Testosterone: just say no".

But perhaps that would just seem to be advocating male celibacy?

--
Gus Rodgers,  Dept. of Computer Science, |  [Profound thought for 1993]
Queen Mary & Westfield College, Mile End |     "Philishave is about
Road, London, England.   +44 71 975 5241 |      personal choice" 
E-mail (JANET):   arodgers@dcs.qmw.ac.uk |             -- TV advert
From: cyberoid@stein.u.washington.edu (Robert Jacobson)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Roy's "consenting" slave
Date: 19 Dec 92 21:36:43 GMT
Organization: University of Washington


Could this discussion take another turn, away from the man vs. woman
(or men vs. women) axis?  A more fruitful topic, at least for my own
edification, would be the place of power in personal relationships.

I have no hard and ready rules governing power considerations, 
except that in my own relationships I strive for as nearly-equal
sharing as possible.  Others may feel this is pollyannish.  (I hope
they will have the good sense not to refer to this preference as
"vanilla," a condescending term that simply drives me up the wall.)
It would be interesting to hear the rationales for each (or mixed)
preferences.

Tantric sex, about which I am only now learning, seeks to liberate
deep energies in human beings and unite them through shared energy.
It seems to me (as a novice, understand) that inequities in power,
even if only symbolic, would tend to defeat this goal of perfect
sharing.  Perhaps this is naive and counter to others' experience.
I would be glad to hear more.

My motivation is my intimate relationship with a woman who is looking
into power-focused experiences.  These feel antithetical to my own
seeking:  not wrong in themselves, but very orthoganal to my direc-
tion.  How might these orientations be reconciled?  This would be a
topic of keen interest to many, I'm almost sure.

Bob
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: orc@vpnet.chi.il.us (david parsons)
Subject: Re: Roy's "consenting" slave
Organization: Department of Atomic Text Units
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 15:48:43 GMT

In article <1gln9qINNg3m@agate.berkeley.edu> rsr@soda.berkeley.edu (Roy S. Rapoport) writes:
|In article <BzBA89.Jnu@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> dbshapco@napier.uwaterloo.ca (Brad Shapcott) writes:
|
|->situation.  There is a implicit sexual contract between the players in an
|->S&M scene or master/slave situation that grants power to both sides.  By
|
|Hmm ... I'm not sure I really agree with the use of the term 'sexual' here.
|S&M, to me, is separate from sex ; [...]

   This may be a case where peoples mileage may vary.  In my case,
the sexual part is essential to changing my reaction from "ouch,
that hurts; please stop" to "ouch, that hurts; hurt me *more."  But
the contractual bit isn't restricted to sexual matters, as you've
said.

                 ____
   david parsons \bi/ "Who won't even mention certain things that happened
                  \/   in Birmingham New Street Station a couple of weeks
                       ago..."
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid)
Subject: Re: Introduction, or De-Muffining
Organization: Eris's Restaurant
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 18:31:11 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.024639.2709@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> dwells@lonestar.utsa.edu (Darren . Wells) writes:
>In article <Bz9Jwt.Ez6@cck.coventry.ac.uk>
> idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid) writes:
>> Not so tall I have to stand on a box to see anything other
>>     than their crotch.
>(although this might have its advantages . . . )

Nah, I can always kneel down if I want to do that.

>BTW, Kay, I have been cut-off from the net for a few days, and I can
>tell that I have missed quite a bit here.  Are you still thinking about
>coming to Texas?  (hopeful look, tail wagging)

Tail wagging?  Well, that makes a visit a must :)

>Or at least hitting the Northeast metime around the week of the 5th
>(when I am on vacation, and free to jet-set around the world)?

5th of what?  It probably won't be for a month or two; organising
the trip is going to take a little while (fund wheedling, flight
bookings, and all that jazz...)

>*stifled giggle*

You could always jet to the UK...

				Kay
 
-- 
6'2", dark short hair, blue eyes, bisexual and horny as ....
Kay Dekker, Dept of Industrial Design, Coventry University, Coventry UK
37 Old Winnings Road, Keresley Village, Coventry   |B0 f t+ g++ k++! s+ e r p!
Phone: +44 203 838668 (work) +44 203 337865 (home) |Deflowerer-of-innocents
From: pflynn@ccvax.ucd.ie
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: test (ignore)
Date: 10 Dec 92 10:18:57 GMT
Organization: University College Dublin

Testing (go on, ignore me :-)
///Peter
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: dbshapco@napier.uwaterloo.ca (Brad Shapcott)
Subject: Re: Help! I've been killfiled and I can't get out!
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 23:56:07 GMT


In article <1992Dec17.155123.1971@cbnews.cb.att.com> eleanor@cbnews.cb.att.com (
Piglet) writes:
>In article <BzDF0o.GLE@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> dbshapco@napier.uwaterloo.c
a (Brad Shapcott) writes:
>
>True, however, most people broaden their horizons selectively.
>There's only so much energy I have to spend on various
>activities.  I'd rather spend it constructively--broadening
>my horizons where it seems to be effective, and filtering to
>improve the signal-to-noise ratio.  We're a lot more receptive
>to the content of messages whose style doesn't irritate us.

1) I was quite wrong about "can't be that every thing Roy talks about
   irritates the hell out of Dan" to begin with.

2) Somehow certain styles go with certain modes of thought, and some people
   with wholly unique ideas tend to have distinct styles (sometimes pleasing,
   sometimes irritating).  Some people here fit that pattern, and some are
   a joy to read and others difficult.  People with both styles are
   illuminating.

>That's probably because you've put the quotes in the wrong place,
>adjusting the emPHAsis incorrectly.  It's favorite person-in-the-
>world-whom-I-have-never-met.  Different from favorite person-in-
>the-world-whom-I-have-met.  Oh, and I do hope to remedy that
>whom-I-have-never-met real-soon-now.

Well, I'll just have to slog on till my NewSpeak dictionary comes in the mail,
won't I? :-)

>Piglet, still looking for a Piglet stamp...


Brad

Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: eowyn@brahms.udel.edu (Zoe Antonia Velonis)
Subject: Re: Australians (was Re: accidently out)
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 18:39:33 GMT

In article <9235021.17685@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU> nsn@ee.mu.OZ.AU (Nick Nicholas) writes:
>idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid) writes:
>*Finally* I get the Crisitudinal original (there is a steady undertow of
>week-late articles coming in... "I am friend to the undertow, I take you in,
>I don't let go") (I become love slave for a day to the person who first
>identifies the song and singer thereof)

Please say I win!!!! Please!  It's Suzanne Vega, from her first album,
the song is "Undertow" it's the first song on the second side and it's a 
wonderful song!!!
Boy, Mahler *and* Suzanne Vega!  This must be fate, or something, Nick.
Psychic twins separated at birth?
>

h Zwh' sou



Newsgroups: soc.bi,soc.motss
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: Liberty (was something relevant about CO-2 long ago...)
Organization: Elitist Usenet Administrators, Turkey Division
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 17:06:01 GMT

In article <BzH9Ho.241F@austin.ibm.com> alan@auntbea.austin.ibm.com (Alan R. Weiss) writes:

>[Melinda writes:]
>
>>I forgot, in my previous posting, to thank all you Big
>>Smart Men for explaining to us Poor Addled Women exactly
>>how to go about achieving gender parity.  Thanks!
>
>I forgot to tell you:  you're a sexist pig, too :-)
>Do you not think a MAN can offer any valid observations in
>this subject material?  Or do you think this is something
>only a WOMYN can appreciate and address?

Not in my experience, she doesn't.  However, she has observed that the
most clueless, inappropriate, and nonsensical suggestions are proposed
almost exclusively by men.

It takes a special knack to discern this most subtle relationship;
scientists have not yet been able to train lower forms of life to
recognize such patterns.  But keep trying, Bobo!

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / 
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /               Rocks say goodbye.
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) / 
Newsgroups: soc.bi,soc.motss
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: Liberty (was something relevant about CO-2 long ago...)
Organization: Elitist Usenet Administrators, Turkey Division
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 23:37:43 GMT

In article <1992Dec19.212201.5955@tc.cornell.edu> shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore) writes:

>In article <BzInI2.7Bn@unix.amherst.edu> twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:
>
>>Not in my experience, she doesn't.  However, she has observed that the
>>most clueless, inappropriate, and nonsensical suggestions are proposed
>>almost exclusively by men.
>
>And she finds smug, patronizing attitudes wrapped around
>these suggestions particularly tiresome, especially when
>they come from nitwits who admit that the entire issue is
>not a priority from them.

But it's not a priority for *anyone*, silly!  It's true!  Alan said
so!

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / 
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /               Rocks say goodbye.
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) / 
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: seamus@ravel.udel.edu (James G Dilmore)
Subject: Re: Introduction, or De-Muffining
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 21:10:10 GMT

In article <1992Dec12.181235.10161@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> dwells@lonestar.utsa.edu (Darren . Wells) writes:
>>
>As a matter of fact . . . my birthmother lives in Fair Haven NJ, so
>I get up in that part of the country quite a bit.  :)
>
Cool let me know next time you are on your way.

>>Green eyes? swoon again.
>
>*blush*  Yup, it's the Irish in my blood.  :)
>
swoon again.

What is this irish thing here.
I remember back in my muffin days, something being said about it.
But hell there are a lot of Celts on this group.
Anyone got any ideas?

>Darren
>(pondering the mischief he is getting into . . . )
>
who ever said that there are no evil thoughts?;)
-- 
Jim Dilmore - seamus@brahms.udel.edu    or    dilmore@che.udel.edu 
               SILENCE = DEATH      Safe sex doesn't mean no sex.          
Give me life, Give me pain,         It just means use your imagination. 
Give me myself again.  Tori Amos.            Billy Bragg 
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: mlloyd@ocf.berkeley.edu (M. Lloyd)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: A question about Stephen M. Conley
Date: 18 Dec 1992 06:49:39 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
NNTP-Posting-Host: earthquake.berkeley.edu

idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid) writes:
>>mlloyd@ocf.berkeley.edu (M. Lloyd) writes:
>
>>>maintaining a proper distance from the orgy of snuggling until now, but
>>>that was just because I didn't think Kay D would be making to the other
>>>ocean.)
>
>If it's the only way I'll ever get to see you again, Mike, I'm going to
>have to.  Who knows - it may be a once-in-a-lifetime visit (spot the morbid
>sniffle) and so I'll not stint the taxpayer's money.  Can I circumnavigate
>the USA in only three weeks?

Aw, Kay.  I'm appropriately complimented.  Now what's this about feeling
morbid?  Anyway, I suspect I'll be vaulting the Atlantic at least a few
times more this lifetime, maybe even within the next few months ...
thesis viva and all that, y'know? :-) Perhaps I shouldn't admit that.
I'd be, ah, pretty cheered if you could put in a Pacific appearance ...

>Kay hates the Atlantic.
>Kay hates the Atlantic.
>Kay hates just about everything today.
>Kay is not in a good mood at all.
>Festivities?  As they say, "Bah! Bumhug!"
>Kay is going to have a bastard Christmas.  His lover's mother has leukaemia
>and is in hospital for a bonemarrow transplant, and so Kay isn't going to
>be able to wake up on Christmas morn with his arms round his darling like he
>promised him, 'cause Justin will be with his mother, and Kay will be many
>miles away, transportless.

Empathy, m'friend.  If you recall my Thanksgiving Whinge, well, my
Christmas day should be equally empty (he said, hoping he may be wrong
again).  Only thing I have to look forward to that day is packing so
that I can leave this town the day after.

>Kay will stop typing now cos he's crying and self-pity is an ugly thing.

Aww, Kay (the extra w signifies the change in tone).  Have a hug - maybe
even a bumhug, if it would help :-)  Don't let me be facetious - I've
cried into my keyboard before now, and can imagine how it is.  Just take
some warm thoughts that are a shade tricky to fit into this e-stuff.

hugs
Mike
-- 
Mike Lloyd, B0/1 h- f- t w- g+ k+ s m- e? |    "Bloody nose and burning eyes
      Retro-hippy, music nut, bi and      |  Raised in laughter to the skies"
          backrubber of devotion          |                 - Bruce Cockburn
               --The end of confusion is the beginning of death--
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: litterst@pecan.cns.udel.edu (The Assasin's Guild)
Subject: Re: Introduction, or De-Muffining
Organization: University of Delaware, Newark
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 00:48:20 GMT

In article <1992Dec11.000518.3111@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> dwells@lonestar.utsa.edu (Darren . Wells) writes:
>In article <Bz0992.3vK@cck.coventry.ac.uk>
> idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid) writes:
>>In article <1992Dec8.204828.28725@athena.cs.uga.edu>
> wells@athena.cs.uga.edu (Scott Wells) writes:
>>>4. When do I get my Special Rights Discount Card (and certificate,
>>>suitable for framing) ?
>>
>>I'll do you one.  Promise.

Can you do me one, too?  please?????
>
>You will?  Can you do one for me, too?  :)
>
>>6'2", dark short hair, blue eyes, bisexual and horny as ....
>
>Okay . . . everytime I read this, I get curiouser and curioser.  You
>don't happen to be planning on seeing Texas anytime soon, do you?

But only after you come through Del. right?  Then we all can go to Texas.
>
>*grin*
>
>Darren
>(6'3", dark short hair, green eyes, bisexual and horny as ....)

Steve
(6'5", long blonde hair, blue-green eyes, unknown and probably not as horny
  as either of you.)
				*HUG*HUG*HUG*HUG*HUG*HUG*HUG*HUG*
				*SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEZE*SMOOOOOOOOOCH*

-- 
| The Assasin's Guild           |  No matter how subtle the wizard...     |
| c/o Stephen C. Litterst       |   A knife between the shoulder blades   |
| kyraan@bach.udel.edu           \   will always cramp his style.         |
|_litterst@freezer.cns.udel.edu___\_____________Stephen Brust_____________|
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: gtoal@pizzabox.demon.co.uk (Graham Toal)
Subject: Re: Selective Memory?
Organization: Cuddlehogs Anonymous
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 02:22:13 GMT

In article <BzL1F1.Bqv@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> dbshapco@napier.uwaterloo.ca (Brad Shapcott) writes:
:evidence, and to the flip ego posturing dominating many posts.  Well,
:the first thing I would like to know is, am I the only one that feels this?

No.
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: bbooth@x400gate.bnr.ca (Brad Booth)
Subject: Re: Attack of the Seperatists
Originator: bbooth@bcrks6
Reply-To: bbooth@x400gate.bnr.ca (Brad Booth)
Organization: BNR, Ottawa, ON, Canada
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 16:36:48 GMT


Ciaran McHale wrote:
> bbooth@x400gate.bnr.ca (Brad Booth) writes:
> >Iseult:
> >> It is not enough to claim that you have feminist principles, if you do not
> >> also have a feminist consciousness.  And more and more I believe in the
> >> politics of oppression which says that if you are not of the opressed
> >> all you can do is be a supporter.  Malcolm X had a lot to offer in some
> >> respects.
> >
> >And in reverse, you can't understand what it means to be a man if you
> >don't also have a male consciousness.
> 
> I'm confused as to what you mean. By saying "And in reverse" I thought
> that you were going to reverse the roles, but the actual text you used
> does not seem to do this.

"And in reverse" may be just a cultural terminology difference.  It's used
similar to the word "likewise."

> >The politics of oppression is not to segregate but to unify those who
> >are oppressed and those who support them.
> 
> *Your* politics of oppression may be as simplistic as you describe
> above, but it does not necessariarly follow that others think
> similarly.

Unless otherwise noted, things that I type are my opinions or comments.
That's why I sometimes end my posts with "Opinions of" or "Comments
by."  I hope that everyone doesn't necessarily think similarly... it
would make it hard to have interesting discussions or to learn and share
different views.

Happy holidays (and my opinions), ;)

    __o     Brad Booth              | "I want you
  _`\<,_    Bell-Northern Research  |  to know me only as
 (*)/ (*)   Ottawa, Ontario, Canada |  what I believe I am."
----------  bbooth@x400gate.bnr.ca  |     ... Fiftyfour-40
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: ktfizazi@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Kamal Tayeb Fizazi)
Subject: Darren (was Introduction, or De-Muffining)!
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 05:22:17 GMT

In article <Bz33x4.FI2@news.udel.edu> seamus@ravel.udel.edu (James G Dilmore) writes:
>In article <1992Dec11.000518.3111@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> dwells@lonestar.utsa.edu (Darren . Wells) writes:
>>Darren
>>(6'3", dark short hair, green eyes, bisexual and horny as ....)
>swoon.  Omy you aren't coming up The northeastern direction are you?
If you do, you _have_ to stop by New Jersey...  (If Kay can cross the Atlantic,
then surely you can come up North for a short while ;-)
>Green eyes? swoon again.
I think I'll join you in swooning!
>Jim Dilmore - seamus@brahms.udel.edu   or  dilmore@che.udel.edu 
Kamal
-- 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-| Dunya => the world
Desperately seeking person to make my baraka virulent :^) | Hanyah=> is easy
(would someone help me rouse it? anyone??? anyone???)     | Sma'  => the sky
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-| Safyah=> is pure
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu (Muffy Barkocy)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: More total blatant fluff
Date: 13 Dec 92 23:08:04
Organization: Natural Language Incorporated
NNTP-Posting-Host: remarque.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: nsn@ee.mu.OZ.AU's message of Mon, 14 Dec 1992 04:27:09 GMT

In article <9234915.17977@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU> nsn@ee.mu.OZ.AU (Nick Nicholas) writes:
>Muffy Barocky:

A common misspelling...but it's "Barkocy."  "Muffy" is usually adequate,
though. 

>It is *NOT* *TRUE* I was scandalised by your apparel in your 
>.gif!

Ah, well...I'll have to get more and better GIFs made...*grin*.

>[Joe] did
>drool to me of the photo of you in a dress with most of the dress missing.

Every bit of the dress was there!  Well, not the underwear, I admit, but
I just don't *like* wearing underwear with dresses.

>extra-broad gaffer tape with buckles! :) So you want to scandalise me,
>fair Muffy d00d, then all you need do is pick up an evening gown and
>a pair of scissors, see, and... %^)

As Iseult can confirm, I *do* have an outfit that is more holes than
dress...*smile*...maybe that would work.

I'll just have to show Joe all my party dresses when he gets here and
let him decide what's scandalous...*smile*...

Muffy
--
Post articles to soc.feminism, or send email to feminism@ncar.ucar.edu.
Questions and comments should be sent to feminism-request@ncar.ucar.edu.  This
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article should be posted within several days.  Rejections notified by email.
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: eleanor@cbnews.cb.att.com (Piglet)
Subject: Re: Introduction, or De-Muffining
Organization: clearly, none
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 02:48:21 GMT
Keywords: grovel, grovel

I am _so_ sorry about that--I realized just after my
fingers hit the _send_ keys--too late to abort--that
I'd included the _entire_ posting I was replying to
in front of my own.  And I'm reading on a 1200 baud
modem, so I _know_ how painful it is...

I'm really, really, really, really sorry.


Piglet  (see, if the phone hadn't rung while I was
         editing it the first time, the computer
         wouldn't have hung up on me, and I wouldn't
         have had error-recover in such a dumb-ass
         way....)
Newsgroups: soc.bi,soc.motss
From: mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik)
Subject: Re: Liberty (was something relevant about CO-2 long ago...)
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 11:39:45 GMT
Organization: (getting there)



Ya know, I think I'm gonna *scream*.

Melinda Shore-- more patiently than I was able to do-- tried to
explain to the world in general that women's feelings about being
excluded by what is supposed to be the "inclusive" use of the
masculine might not be the same as men's.  Sure, she's annoyed.
We've been through this many times, in this and in other newsgroups.

And then, along comes alan@auntbea.austin.ibm.com (Alan R. Weiss) 
who says:
  >>I didn't miss the point of the posting.  I've heard the
  >>same "point" over and over and over and over and over and
  >>over and over.
 >Not from me, since I'm new to these parts ..... 

But, of course, he doesn't make any *better* point, and he doesn't
offer any argument that overcomes Melinda's position.  The fact that
*he* is new to these parts means that we (for some value of we) owe
him not to be upset at hearing him mouth the same stuff that's been
annoying us for all those years.

It won't wash.


 >First of all, Melinda (herm says, going all gender-neutral
 >parental on you ;-)  I didn't USE any gender-specific language.
 >Herm was decrying the use of it IN GENERAL.

Bleah.  I do have friends who would celebrate the demise of the
genderlinked pronoun-- for good reason.  They don't identify
comfortably with either masculine or feminine.  But that wasn't what
Melinda was arguing, and it's not what I'm arguing either.  (I'm
not yet revolutionary enough to feel the need for genderless
personal pronouns, although I gotta say that there is some
interesting potential in the idea.)

 >Secondly, you're absolutely correct about one thing:  I don't
 >think this is a very big priority, in my life.  No, I'm not
 >insensitive or boorish or stooopid --> 
I guess you're just a pretty good actor, then.  You sure had me
fooled.


-- 

  Mara Chibnik
  mara@panix.com                Life is too important to be taken seriously.

Newsgroups: soc.bi