HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: krikket@meltdown.chi.il.us (D. 'Krikket' Krick)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: confrontations
Date: 10 Jan 93 13:54:59 CST
Organization: The Meltdown - A Team Star BBS

In article <C0I7uz.tH@twwells.com>, anon-1540@twwells.com writes:
>ANON-name: Hillary
>
>I'll try to keep this short and to the point.  This is my first time 
>posting although I've been reading for a while now.  I have a question
>about confronting your abuser(s).  Everything I have read and been 
>told in a 12-step support group I am member of tells me that I MUST
>confront my abuser (my father and, indirectly, my mother) in order to 
>begin to put the pieces of my life back together.  

WRONG.  You do *NOT* "have to" confront anyone!  If you do not wish to confront
your father, DON'T!  I know I will not be confronting my perp, for it would
cause too many problems for me in real life, considering that he was (and
techniclly still is, even though he no longer works for the company, excpet on
an as-needed, on-call basis) my supervisor.

Confrontation is not a required thing to do.  Healing never includes doing
something that will (or may) cause you harm!

>If I may give some brief history ....

<Deleted for bandwidth>

>I'll wrap this up now, I am not sure that I am strong enough to confront
>my father and my mother (for not protecting me as I think she should have)
>nor am I sure much would be accomplished by this, and perhaps my siblings
>would be hurt if this information were to be shared with them.  I would
>appreciate comments on confrontation, especially from those who have done
>so regardless of whether or not the result was positive.  

I haven't confronted, but there are people out there who have done so and have
had positive results.  I suggest you ask youself what you expect the results of
a confrontation to be, and then if those results are realistc.  If it's what
you want, and is realistic, then go for it.  Otherwise, I wouldn't bother.

This, of course, is merely In My Humble Opnion....  :)

>Much thanks in advance.  I apologize for the length of this, but I felt
>history might be necessary in accessing whether or not confrontation 
>would be helpful to me. 

No need to apologize.  Speak up and as long as you wish.  That's what we're
here for!

<><><><>
Krikket                      ---  krikket@meltdown.chi.il.us
#include<std.disclaimers>    ---  an294@anon.penet.fi
anon-1214@twwells.com        ---  anon.77@pax.tpa.com.au

 "And the Germans killed the Jews.  And the Jews killed the Arabs.
  And the Arabs killed the hostages.  And that is the news."
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp)
Subject: Re: in which poohbear returns to friends
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 20:01:34 GMT

Yaaay!  poohbear's back!!!!  I was worried about you.....
-- 
Ed Carp			erc@apple.com, erc@saturn.upl.com	801/538-0177
1935 will go down in history.  For the first time, a civilized nation has
full gun registration.  Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient,
and the world will follow our lead into the future.  --Adolf Hitler
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp)
Subject: Re: Abuse Effects in Other Societies
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 00:08:39 GMT

Teresa Kline (aatresa@lims02.lerc.nasa.gov) wrote:

: In article <C054yH.HMB@twwells.com>, anon-1421@twwells.com (Seeker) writes...
: >Does anyone have more first hand experience? Any members of 
: >non-USA/European influenced cultures listening on the net?(!) I would
: >love to tell my SO he is wrong on this :-) . 
: 
: I grew up overseas, in both European and Asian countries.  
: Sex with a child is damaging, no matter what.  The child is not prepared 
: for the emotions that are an integral part of sex.  And, if the sex 
: involves penetration, a child's body just isn't made to take an adult's.  
: It's a fact of plain, physical size.

Take the case of non-penetrative sexual contact, then.  Europeans and Asians
both have ingrained into their societies that "sex with a child is a Bad
Thing".  But other societies have no such incest taboo - do children reared
in such a society experience the emotional and psychological distress that
children in other societies do?  I think that was my original question -
does the role of societal acceptance or rejection of incest play a part in
children's emotional development, and to what degree?  Do children raised
in an insectuous environment, in a society which condones (and even accepts
as normal) incest have the problems that we see in our society?

Please don't misunderstand my question as in any way condoning incest - that's
not the purpose of the question.
-- 
Ed Carp			erc@apple.com, erc@saturn.upl.com	801/538-0177
1935 will go down in history.  For the first time, a civilized nation has
full gun registration.  Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient,
and the world will follow our lead into the future.  --Adolf Hitler
From: agape@igc.apc.org (Jean Riseman)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: Ritual Abuse Upper (really!)
Date: 12 Jan 93 00:47:00 GMT
Nf-ID: #R:cdp:1519600011:cdp:1519600013:000:1074
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!agape    Jan 11 16:47:00 1993


Hi Nancy:
Sorry but I don't know how to use these things to quotye...>>>>

I know there is a lot of trickery involved. I also know that
what I remember is not THE TRUTH but a terrified and probably
drugged child's best guess at what was going on. For example,
even though I am a woman and I have had children, I can
remember the feel of male genitals and I remember that they shot them
off, aiming between my legs. I do not remember any pain.
Obviuously, this could not have happened, but they sure had me convinced for
for a bit that I was a boy and was then castrated.

I believe that human sacrifices do occur, but I think that people are
very expensive and that most of the sacrifices are of animals,
especially cheap ones like cats and chickens and dogs. First
and early second semester fetuses are also easy to come by.

My only memeory, so far, of an adult death was in a snuff film.
I do believe that there isn't any contraversy about the existence of snu
snuff films.I wonder how they dispose of those bodies?

I'm glad we are talking about these thiongs.

Jeannie
From: nancy@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Nancy Lebovitz)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: Me
Date: 5 Jan 93 16:08:21 GMT
Organization: UDel, School of Life & Health Sciences

In article <C09H00.CC9@acsu.buffalo.edu> rmr@acsu.buffalo.edu (Richard M. Romanowski) writes:
>
>	This stuff, especially Nancy Agnew's, seems to address the mystical
>question: can evil exist outside of us?
>
>	I think Nancy Agnew believes that it can, e.g. rape is always bad.
>
>	Well,  I can't directly disagree ... I can't countenance rape under
>any circumstances.  If it were necessary for the survival of the human species,
>I might decide it was time for the species to die.  (Or I might not.  Tough
>call.)
>
>	On the other hand, I would mystically say that if I could purify
>my own mind to the point where rape made no sense, I wwould exude a pure
>aura, and that would prevent people from being raped in my presence.  
>Likewise with other evils.
>
>	i.e., since rape didn't exist in me, it could not exist anywhere...

I think that people are strongly and subtly influenced by each other, and
that if you are in a strong definite state, people around you will tend
to reflect it. However, I believe that the operative word in _tend_--you're
just improving the odds--a worthy project, but no guarentee. 
>
>	Please don't be too rough on our poor little mystics.  When they say
>that everywhere is here and now, it's easy to raise objections.  Generally
>crazy mystical sayings have a useful, practical lesson to preach.
>
>	Granted, I haven't proven anything, but perhaps I have reconciled
>Nancy Agnew to Zen mystics, who ought to be already reconciled to her ...
>
>(:
>E-Shrugs to whomever demands them...

E-snickers for any joke that inspires them...

Nancy Lebovitz
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: hal@netcom.com (Hal Wine)
Subject: talking about Child Sexual Abuse (was Re: TIRED)
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 23:26:10 GMT

David Nelson writes:
>In an ideal world, there would be no taboo against talking about
>incest and abuse.  But this isn't an ideal world, and society sends us
>*many* messages in various ways that say "shut up."  I have found
>myself wanting to apologize for being so "rude" as to mention the
>topic in "polite conversation."  So, in other words, I felt guilty for
>telling the truth, even though I know that abuse thrives on secrecy.

Yes, there is pressure in our society to not mention Child Sexual
Abuse.  And, we can change that.  I try to use the words Child Sexual
Abuse as often as practical in conversation, just so folks will get
over their "shut down" reaction to the words.  My experience is that
this works.

I was involved in a project last summer called "Brake The Cycle: The
National Ride to Stop Child Sexual Abuse".  Our tee shirts had that
full legend on them.  It was funny (sad) how many folks would come up
and make a comment like, "Oh, I see you're out to stop child abuse",
not wanting to see the word "sexual".

On the other hand, people and communities *can* change.  One of our
presentations happened to be at a church in Mason City, Iowa.  I was
blown away by the openess of the people there (lost a lot of my
"Berkeley is the last bastion of liberalism" attitude in Iowa!).  We
were invited to talk about Child Sexual Abuse from the pulpit as part
of their regular service *immediatly* after a baptism.  The minister
did a wonderful transition about how talking about, and stopping,
Child Sexual Abuse was as life affirming as a baptism.  Not one person
got up and left.

A lot of this transformation has come from some hard working folks in
that community who have been talking about Child Sexual Abuse for the
last ten years.

So, thanks for talking about Child Sexual Abuse, even when it makes
others uncomfortable.  It *does* make a difference.

>If one examines society's behavior, one finds that the taboo against
>*talking* about incest if far stronger than the taboo against *doing*
>it.  Society effectively blames the victims by all the forms of
>backlash against talking about incest.  In other words, from the time
>a person begins to break the silence, I expect the backlash - it's
>part of the deal.  We, as survivors, are stuck with the role of being
>social pioneers.  It's just a part of the package called "Breakingthe
>Silence."

Both true, and achievable, IMO.

-- 
Hal Wine
Internet: hal@netcom.com		Compuserve: 72267,3346
From: cloister@stein.u.washington.edu (cloister bell)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: in which poohbear returns to friends
Date: 4 Jan 93 06:18:19 GMT
Organization: University of Washington
NNTP-Posting-Host: stein.u.washington.edu

anon.33@pax.tpa.com.au writes:

poohbear!  hihihihihi!  it's so good to see you back.

>just read all
>i have that 800 number of the cosmetic people who
>have special makeup to cover up scars
>will post it later
>an so oh yes and that is a good story, poohbear is seeing
>a 53 year old and she is 20  anyway he gave me the number cause
>he watches oprah a lot.  not because he wants me to get rid
>of them but because he knows i hate them

wow.  that's some age difference.  good luck to you, though.  it would make me
worry, but i know that you know what you're doing.

>but then again i make more, so what to do?

yeah, my SO does some similar things.  she has an itching skin condition where
she sometimes almost compulsively scratches certain spots, to the point where
she has some perpetual lesions in certain places.  i know she doesn't like
them, and keeps them covered up from casual sight, but she won't stop
scratching, either.  it can be frustrating for me to watch sometimes.  but, no
one is perfect and i love her anyways.

>asar poohbear missed you so much
>seems so silly
>but ive decided i dont care if i care too much for all of you

i missed you too, poohbear.  and i don't think that "caring too much" is
something to worry about.  it sounds like a good happy thing to me.

>i overdosed the week before xmas, not enough pills though
>and so just got very drugged  i took all i had and it wasnt enough
>i had been saving them for so long.

wow.  i guess that means that some part of you is really strong and really
wants to live, eh?

>had to go to the er just before that b/c i was throwing up blood,
>that bulimia is gonna kill me if i dont beat it first.
>that got me pretty stressed and then i od-ed.

>went home for 4.5 days.  sucked,  but am back now, a few more cuts but alive

>i am so tired of the fight
>so so tired
>just want to melt away
>shells fall off and masks fall off
>and just poohbear left
>and have it be ok

yeah.  that sounds good.  no more masks.  no more shells.  i hope we can get
there someday.  take good care, poohbear.  and welcome welcome back!
-- 
+-------------------------------------------------+---------------------------+
|tactical nuclear sdi stealth nsafood signature.  | cloister@u.washington.edu |
+-------------------------------------------------+---------------------------+
From: anon-1553@twwells.com
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: test
Date: 12 Jan 93 00:28:25 GMT
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com

This is another test.  Sorry if you get bombarded by these silly things.



--
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Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: nancy@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Nancy Lebovitz)
Subject: Re: Abuse Effects in Other Societies
Organization: UDel, School of Life & Health Sciences
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 15:49:59 GMT

In article <1993Jan5.000839.26494@unislc.uucp> erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp) writes:
>Teresa Kline (aatresa@lims02.lerc.nasa.gov) wrote:
>
>: In article <C054yH.HMB@twwells.com>, anon-1421@twwells.com (Seeker) writes...
>: >Does anyone have more first hand experience? Any members of 
>: >non-USA/European influenced cultures listening on the net?(!) I would
>: >love to tell my SO he is wrong on this :-) . 
>: 
>: I grew up overseas, in both European and Asian countries.  
>: Sex with a child is damaging, no matter what.  The child is not prepared 
>: for the emotions that are an integral part of sex.  And, if the sex 
>: involves penetration, a child's body just isn't made to take an adult's.  
>: It's a fact of plain, physical size.
>
>Take the case of non-penetrative sexual contact, then.  Europeans and Asians
>both have ingrained into their societies that "sex with a child is a Bad
>Thing".  But other societies have no such incest taboo - do children reared
>in such a society experience the emotional and psychological distress that
>children in other societies do?  I think that was my original question -
>does the role of societal acceptance or rejection of incest play a part in
>children's emotional development, and to what degree?  Do children raised
>in an insectuous environment, in a society which condones (and even accepts
>as normal) incest have the problems that we see in our society?

For what it's worth, a common thread in accounts of having been sexually
abused as a child is that the child didn't know what was going on, but
hated it. This suggests to me that it's a natural revulsion, not a trained
one.

I do think that a society that represses sex will than make it all harder
to deal with. I'm inclined to think that large-scale work on recovery from 
sexual abuse wasn't possible until the sexual revolution made it more 
possible to talk about sex. 
>
>Please don't misunderstand my question as in any way condoning incest - that's
>not the purpose of the question.

Nancy Lebovitz
From: anon-1534@twwells.com (Suzanna)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Failed Mail
Date: 12 Jan 93 07:45:14 GMT
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com
X-Email-Accepted: yes

I'm sorry, I forgot to change the subject line when I re-sent that last
message. My apologies, I hope it doesn't happen again. Also, I can't
recall what the subject should have been. Sorry.

Suzanna



--
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From: krikket@meltdown.chi.il.us (D. 'Krikket' Krick)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: It's my birthday too, yeah :-(
Date: 10 Jan 93 22:22:04 CST
Organization: The Meltdown - A Team Star BBS

In article <C0IGyz.1CG@twwells.com>, anon-1534@twwells.com (Suzanna) writes:

>I'm sorry, I don't want to intrude, but I would like to ask a question
>about birthdays. How do people celebrate them? Are parties normal? I
>know people give presents, but what people? And what's a non-birthday?
>I'm sorry, these questions must be very stupid.

The only stupid question is the question that isn't asked.  Sometimes people
hold parties, but generally if a party is held, it's for the sake of having a
party.  The birthday is just a convienent "excuse" to have one, for those who
feel you must have a reason to have a party.

If any presents are exchanged, it would normally be from/to immediate family
members and/or the occasional close friend.

As for a "non-birthday", got me.  Sounds like someone who wants to have the
excuse to party, but not admit that they are getting older...

But there really aren't any rules as to birthdays.  This is just what I've
observed to those who I know well.  I haven't had a B-Day party since I was
about 10.  :)

<><><><>
Krikket                      ---  krikket@meltdown.chi.il.us
#include<std.disclaimers>    ---  an294@anon.penet.fi
anon-1214@twwells.com        ---  anon.77@pax.tpa.com.au

 "And the Germans killed the Jews.  And the Jews killed the Arabs.
  And the Arabs killed the hostages.  And that is the news."
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp)
Subject: Re: WOMEN ABUSES!!!
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 00:15:09 GMT

Mr Freud (anon-1530@twwells.com) wrote:

: Some women are really able to destroy a man completly!

And some men are able to destroy a woman completely.  Can you be more specific?

: I have been together with the same woman for two years, and I don't hope
: that I'll ever waste myself like that again!

Sounds like my ex-wife... :(

: It sure is my fault that I didn't walk out of our relationship a long time
: ago, but what can a man do, when he is madly in love?

A hard decision, to leave an abusive relationship.  Even harder to implement
that decision.  I applaud your bravery.
-- 
Ed Carp			erc@apple.com, erc@saturn.upl.com	801/538-0177
1935 will go down in history.  For the first time, a civilized nation has
full gun registration.  Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient,
and the world will follow our lead into the future.  --Adolf Hitler
From: dnelson@icaen.uiowa.edu (David Nelson)
Subject: re: Thanks for nothing..bleah
Organization: Iowa Computer Aided Engineering Network, University of Iowa
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 09:40:32 GMT

Silver Tiger et al.

I don't know what's happening with twwells.com, but I've also had
email bounce.  I sent email to anon-1317, Sierra, Kristian, and
Suzanna and all of them have bounced.  So if any of you can, please
mail me from an alternative site so I can continue my correspondence
with you.

Please don't assume that Bill is being nasty or something - there are
many reasons why something might go wrong.  This entity that we call
InterNet is held together by the electronic and software equivalent of
baling wire and scotch tape in a lot of places.

Your friend in healing,
Dave

**********************************************************************
*     Any attempt to impose        David L Nelson (Screaming Fist)   *
*     your will on another            dnelson@icaen.uiowa.edu        *
*     is an act of violence.           anon-1454@twwells.com         *
*        -Mahatma Gandhi               an1096@anon.penet.fi          *
**********************************************************************
From: anon-1281@twwells.com
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: anon-1543
Date: 13 Jan 93 02:17:55 GMT
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com

I tried to email you but your forwarding address is turned off.
Either turn it on or email me,please.


Just another aside.
Thanks to this group I have made my FIRST step in seeking help.
I'm still waiting for an appointment,but at last I rang.
Thanks to you all,especially Carol and Nancy.
Carol,you have shown me great strength and for this I thank you.
I'll keep in touch ,just to let you know how I'm doing.

Don Quixote.
:



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Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: doug@cdc.hp.com (Doug Sojourner)
Subject: Re: going through the pain
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 00:09:10 GMT
Reply-To: dsojourner@cdc.hp.com
Organization: HP California Design Center, Santa Clara, CA
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL7]

Seeker (anon-1421@twwells.com) wrote:
:
:I am sad about it because there are many things about
:my SO that I like but I cannot ignore a warning flag as
:blatantly obvious as this one. 
:
:-Sad Seeker


Seeker, 

I admire your courage, and the fact that (with the help of your
counselor) you've been able to see what is good for you, and are
preparing to do what you need to do to get it.

Doug Sojourner

dsojourner@cdc.hp.com
anon-1158@twwells.com
an651@anon.penet.fi
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: altinbay@netcom.com (John Altinbay)
Subject: Unforwarded mail
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 03:07:55 GMT

I got 3 unforwarded mail messages from the twwells APS.  If I understand it
correctly, it means that 3 pieces of e-mail were send to me in response to
some mail I sent, and I had not set myself up correctly.  I did what the
messages told me to do, so if those who sent me the mail would like to 
resend them to me, it'd be nice to hear from you.  If I understand correctly,
it assigned me anon-1014 as my id.

Sorry about the intrusion.

-- 
John Altinbay   -   altinbay@netcom.com
===============================================================
There's a spirit that guides me, a light that shines for me
My life is worth the living, I don't need to see the end.
From: anon-1545@twwells.com (bear)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: test
Date: 8 Jan 93 03:25:05 GMT
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com
X-Email-Accepted: yes

ppppp everyone, just testing...



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Xref: sparky alt.sexual.abuse.recovery:9191 alt.sexual.abuse.recovery.d:4