HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: djdaneh@pbhyc.PacBell.COM (Dan'l DanehyOakes)
Subject: Bland Prejudice (was Re: Wolvertons "On My Way to Paradise)
Reply-To: djdaneh@PacBell.COM (Dan'l DanehyOakes)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 21:54:45 GMT

In article <86986@netnews.upenn.edu> weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener) writes:
>In article <1992Aug25.155814.18752@pbhyc.PacBell.COM>, djdaneh@pbhyc (Dan'l DanehyOakes) writes:

>Personally, I've avoided reading WotF winners.

Personally, you're reading one now.  Nyaaaah.

Is there any particular reason for avoiding them -- other than "Ooooh, they took
money from Scientology, they must be in Scientology's pocket?"  Gimme a fuckin' 
break.  Look at the list of judges for any given volume.  Are you really 
convinced that (e.g.) Fredrik Pohl, Gene Wolfe, Anne McCaffrey, Ramsey Campbell,
Niven, Pournelle, Norton et al., are *all* Scientology dupes?

Or is it just the young, innocent people who *enter* the contest that are dupes?
Or perhaps entering the contest means you're a talentless dweeb?

I can understand prejudice against Scientologists.  (I think Scientology is the
world's biggest crock o'shit, myself, though I've had no complaint against the
people who follow it.  They gave my co-author and I more money for a short story
than a lot of people get for their first novel.)  

But I submit that if you're going to spread the brush that tars Scientologists
wide enoguh to make this pre-judgement against those who win (or enter?) the 
contest, then in all fairness and consistency you'll have to admit it's spread
wide enough to require the same pre-judgement against those who administer and 
judge it -- which is a major hunk of the talent in SF today.

Go ahead.  Tell my you don't read Gene Wolfe or Fredrik Pohl.


		The Pavlov dog and the Schroedinger cat
		Side by side in my forebrain sat
		With Shakespeare's monkey's crowding in behind. . .
		. . . it's all in your mind.
			-- Visual Purple

Dan'l Danehy-Oakes, Net.Roach
My opinions do NOT represent Pacific Bell,
Professional Development, or anyone else.
But I'm willing to share.
From: branwen@cerebus.ccc.amdahl.com (Karen Williams)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Upcoming Books till June
Date: 1 Sep 92 17:47:01 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <1992Sep1.001339.27822@gallant.apple.com> chuq@gallant.apple.com (Chuq Von Rospach) writes:
> Dani writes:
>>Elliott, Kate, Sword of Heaven #1: An Earthly Crown, Mar
>>	Sword of Heaven #2: His Conquering Sword, DAW, Apr
>>	Is this in the "Jaran" universe?

>I don't belive so. Start of a new fantasy series.

Nope, they're the sequel to Jaran. I've read them both, and they're great!
They take place about a year after Jaran ends. You get to see a lot more
of the Chapalii/Duke Charles intrigues, plus what happens as Ilya sets out
to conquer the world.

>>Williams, Tad, To Green Angel Tower, DAW HC, Mar

>They've scheduled it? Damn. He better get the damn thing finished, then.

Well, when Tad was at my house about a month ago, he said he had just
finished it. It's about 1600 pages in manuscript.

--
                                          Karen Williams
                                          branwen@cerebus.ras.amdahl.com
"Don't whine. Warrior women speak in a husky whisper."
  -- Brat Pack #3
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: fzimmerm@csd630a.erim.org (Fred Zimmerman)
Subject: Re: Fourth Giants book out
In-reply-to: neufeld@helios.physics.utoronto.ca's message of Thu, 3 Sep 1992 15:09:57 GMT
Organization: Environmental Research Institute of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan
Date: 3 Sep 92 13:11:31

In article <Bu0CsM.6us@helios.physics.utoronto.ca> neufeld@helios.physics.utoronto.ca (Christopher Neufeld) writes:

   Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Path: csd475b!destroyer!uunet!utcsri!helios.physics.utoronto.ca!neufeld
   From: neufeld@helios.physics.utoronto.ca (Christopher Neufeld)
   Sender: news@helios.physics.utoronto.ca (News Administrator)
   Organization: University of Toronto Physics/Astronomy/CITA
   Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 15:09:57 GMT
   Lines: 11

      A few weeks ago I posted a message that the fourth Giants book,
   _Entoverse_, by James P. Hogan was scheduled to be out in paperback in
   October, at least in Canada. Well, it's on the shelves now.
      What did I remember seeing just this week about how books are released
   a month before they are scheduled?

   -- 
    Christopher Neufeld....Just a graduate student  | Confidence is the feeling
    neufeld@helios.physics.utoronto.ca    Ad astra  | you have before you
    utzoo.utoronto.ca!generic!cneufeld              | understand the situation.
    "Don't edit reality for the sake of simplicity" |

I read Entoverse and was appalled.  I thought it was at a much lower
level of quality than the earlier Giants books that I had enjoyed.
From: Eric_Gorr@coglab_psych.uoregon.edu (Eric gorr)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Asimov's Mystery's or Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy:  In German
Date: 1 Sep 92 21:15:30 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Oregon Network Services

I was wondering if anyone knew if any of Asimov's Mysterys (short stories)
or
Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy was ever translated to German.

Who published these versions (an address or phone # would be useful and I
would like to get them if they exist).

Thanx..
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,rec.org.sca
From: thorntn@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Duncan Peter G. Thornton)
Subject: Re: COVINGTON CROSS
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 06:27:20 GMT

In <1992Aug28.191831.23811@enterprise.rdd.lmsc.lockheed.com> baylor@force.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com writes:

>In article <1992Aug28.162113.23261@samba.oit.unc.edu>, Ann.Feeney@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Ann Feeney) writes:

>However, I understand that in the West VA backwoods, the native 
>accent is pretty close to 16th century English (as is the folk
>music, and probably other cultural features)

In Bill Bryson's excellent book _Mother Tongue_ he talks about
this idea:

It has often been said that if you want to hear what the speech
of Elizabethan England sounded like, you should go to the hills
of Appalachia or the Ozarks, where you can find isolated
communities of people still talking the English of Shakespeare.
To be sure, many of the words and expressions that we think of
today as "hillbilly" words - _afeared_, _tetchy_, _consarn it_, 
_yourn_ (for _yours_), _hisn_ (for _his_), _et_ (for _ate_),
_sassy_ (for _saucy_), _jined_ (for _joined_), and scores of
others - do indeed reflect the speech of Elizabethan London.
But much the same claim could be made for the modern-day speech
of Boston or Charleston or indeed almost anywhere else. After
all, every person in America uses a great many expressions and
pronunciations familiar to Shakespeare but which have since
died out in England - _gotten, fall_ (for the season), the
short _a_ of _bath_ and _path_, and so on. The mountain 
regions may possess a somewhat greater abundance of archaic
expressions and pronunciations because of their relative
isolation, but to imply that the speech there is a near
replica of the speech of Elizabethan England is taking it
too far. Apart from anything else, most of the mountain areas
weren't settled for a century or more after Elizabeth's death.
H.L. Mencken traced this belief to an early authority, one A.J.
Ellis, and then plunged the dagger in with the conclusion that
"Ellis was densely ignorant of the history of the English 
settlements in America, and ascribed to them a cultural isolation
that never existed." Still, it is easy to find the belief, or
something very like it, repeated in many books."

_Mother Tongue_, pp.169-70

- Corwinn of Linkoln


Duncan Thornton          | When an idea is too weak to stand the test of simple
thorntn@ccu.umanitoba.ca |  expression, it should be dropped. - Vauvenargues
From: lnh@soliton.physics.arizona.edu (Larry Hammer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Upcoming Books till June
Date: 30 Aug 92 19:05:05 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson AZ

dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig) writes:
>Feist, Raymond E, The King's Buccaneer, Doubleday Foundation HC, Nov

This is a new book inthe Riftwar universe, to be timed with rereleases
of all the old ones in hardcovers, all with WAY good covers by Don
Maitz.

>Kay, Guy Gavriel, A Song for Arbonne, Random House/Crown HC, Jan

Ooo!

>McKinley, Robin, Deerskin, Ace HC, Jun

Anyone know anything about this?

	Larry "Bleep bleep" Hammer
--

LNH@albert.physics.arizona.edu   \  "One like a wombat prowled obtuse
The insane don't need disclaimers \  and furry"  --Christina Rossetti
From: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Bland Prejudice (was Re: Wolvertons "On My Way to Paradise)
Date: 26 Aug 92 15:10:15 GMT
Reply-To: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology
In-reply-to: djdaneh@pbhyc.PacBell.COM (Dan'l DanehyOakes)

In article <1992Aug25.215445.23279@pbhyc.PacBell.COM>, djdaneh@pbhyc (Dan'l DanehyOakes) writes:
>>Personally, I've avoided reading WotF winners.

>Personally, you're reading one now.  Nyaaaah.

Not any more.
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: mvp@hsv3.lsil.com (Mike Van Pelt)
Subject: Re: Tarot sf and fantasy
Organization: LSI Logic/Headland Technology
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 18:21:23 GMT

In article <1992Aug24.191913.27191@csus.edu> arthurc@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu (Arthur Chandler) writes:
>Can anyone here help me out?  I'm looking for science fiction and/or
>fantasy books based on the Tarot cards.  What I'm looking for is not
>just a casual reference or a scene, but books whose structure is based
>on the Tarot.

Another one I haven't seen mentioned is "The Greater Trumps", by
Charles Williams.  (Good luck finding it...)

-- 
"A people who expect to be ignorant        Mike Van Pelt
 and free expect what never will,          Headland Technology/Video 7
 and never can, be."                       mvp@hsv3.lsil.com
         -- Thomas Jefferson               sun!indetech!hsv3!mvp
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: chgs02@vaxa.strath.ac.uk (By learning and courtesy)
Subject: Dragons
Organization: Strathclyde University VAX Cluster
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 13:45:57 GMT

On the theme of Dragon books, I have just come across a 
Rosemary Manning "The Dragon's Quest" which I haven't seen mentioned.
It is the fourth in a series

"Green Smoke"
"Dragon in Danger"
"Dragon in the Harbour"
"The Dragon's Quest"
 in the Puffin paperback book range. These are also about King Arthur
 and Cornish giants and fairies.

And I think I remember Dragonpaths by Fiona Bloomfield in the Eel Pie
paperback range also, which I quite liked.

And I didn't like "Dragon Death" by Gael Baudino to the extent that 
I GOT RID OF THE BOOK!!! 

Ann



Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig)
Subject: Re: Vinge's singularity
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 92 00:15:39 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Keywords: Malthus

beede@sctc.com (Mike Beede):
>>Videophones were first introduced--when, c1960? Nobody wants 'em.
>
>Well, to be a little more precise -- nobody wants to _pay_ for 'em...

To be yet more precise, I heard at a lecture on videocommunications
(in 1991) that over 70% of the current videophone market (there is
one) is pornographic.

-----
Dani Zweig
dani@netcom.com

   Aphorism is better than none.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: louzon@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu (Louzon ronald g)
Subject: THE CUTTNG EDGE by Dave Duncan
Summary: Its out!!!
Keywords: Sequal to A MAN OF HIS WORD
Reply-To: louzon@aplcen (Louzon ronald g)
Organization: Johns Hopkins University
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 92 14:25:45 GMT


    I was in the bookstore yesterday and I saw that Dave Duncan's
THE CUTTING EDGE is out in hardcover.  For those of you how do not
know, this is part one of A HANDFUL OF MEN which is a sequal to 
the excellent A MAN OF HIS WORD series.  Now I have a difficult decision
to make.  I waited until all four books of A MAN OF HIS WORD were out
before I read them and it was a great reading experience.  The question
is now do I read them one at a time as they are being released 1 about
every 6 or 7 months or do I wait two and a half years and read them all
at once.  Decisions, decisions!!!  Why must life be so difficult?!
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: williams@herky.cs.uiowa.edu (Kent Williams)
Subject: Re: SNOW CRASH by Neal Stephenson
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 16:12:43 GMT
Organization: University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA

There is one glaring boner in the book -- near the end, there is
mention of all the meals that Hiro and Y.T. have shared around L.A.,
none of which you have seen previously in the book.  And given the
time scale of the book, and the different paths Y.T. and Hiro take
throughout, it was completely implausible.

It looked like there was a middle chunk of the book that got edited
out for some reason; there's a big discontinuity where all of a sudden
Y.T. and Hiro both have expensive new equipment, due to their new
associations with Enzo and Juanita, but Stephenson never really sets
it up.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: tmohler+@cs.cmu.edu (Tim Mohler)
Subject: Re: What are the best fantasy books involving dragons?
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 16:58:48 GMT

In article <1992Aug28.172947.8471@csi.on.ca> richard@csi.on.ca (Richard Martin) writes:
>The _Silmarillion_ has a pretty vicious dragon too, if I remember
>correctly.  Can't remember his name, though.

Several, actually. The worst we see is Glaurung, father of dragons,
who plays some quite nasty tricks on Turin Turambar. The biggest
baddest bad ass of them all was Ancalagon the Black, who's fall
(during the battle between the Valar and Morgoth) broke the Towers
of Angband (Thangorodrim, for you name freaks).

There was another one, who may or may not have been a young version
of Glaurung (I forget...) who was driven back by archers during the
Fourth Battle, and emerged again during Nirnaeth Arnoedid (The Batlle
of Unnumbered Tears, the fifth one), and was only stopped by the
Naugrim with their masks. When their leader was slain, they withdrew
from the field, leaving the dragon to roam about. Tsk tsk.

Anyways....

Tim



Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: xtifr@netcom.com (Chris Waters)
Subject: Re: Blind Prejudice
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 12:07:38 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

In <87210@netnews.upenn.edu> weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener) writes:

[ comments re hair-trigger KILL files elided ]

>Given the right evidence that it's worthwhile, I'll reconsider.  I
>refused to read Baen Books for years, on the strength of their self
>promotion as dependably unoriginal, but finally read some V Vinge
>and G R R Martin.

Ha!  I can certainly understand this attitude.  I used to ignore all
books with the TOR imprint, due to TOR's constant repackaging of old
stories as "*ALL!!* *NEW!!!*".  And ugly and misleading packaging in
general.  But either they've changed, or I have, because I note several
TOR books among my last few weeks acquisitions...
-- 
Chris Waters    | the insane don't | NOBODY for President!
xtifr@netcom.COM| need disclaimers | Because Nobody's perfect!!
From: avesper@mr4dec.enet.dec.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: _Rama Reviled_
Date: 3 Sep 92 14:12:15 GMT
Reply-To: avesper@mr4dec.enet.dec.com ()
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation

I warned a friend about reading the sequels to _Rendevous with Rama_,
but...

   Despite your warnings, I read _Rama II_ and 
   _Garden of Rama_.  Now I'm ready to end this
   nonsense. Do you have any idea when _Rama
   Revealed_ will be published?

   (These books really are bad...but now I'm stuck. :-)

Since I am not interested in these books myself, I didn't
pay too much attention to notes about them and so I couldn't
answer his question. Has this been published? Hardback, softback?

Thanks, Andy V
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: brad@clarinet.com (Brad Templeton)
Subject: Re: What happened to ESF results?
Organization: ClariNet Communications Corp.
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1992 04:51:07 GMT

I revealed partial results at the close of voting, listing only those
who had said they were worldcon members.

I will give the award on Friday night, at the WorldCon, and there I
will reveal the results.

After, at the @party, I will log in from the party and post the results
of all voting to the net.  Hugos will be awarded the day after.
-- 
Brad Templeton, ClariNet Communications Corp. -- Sunnyvale, CA 408/296-0366
From: luther@i5160e.nrl.navy.mil (Luther)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Books on Magic vs Science
Date: 25 Aug 92 16:26:04 GMT
Organization: US Naval Research Laboratory, Acoustics Division

In article <1992Aug25.131931.1@vaxa.strath.ac.uk> ciar04@vaxa.strath.ac.uk writes:
>
>Are there any books that dwell on the battle between magic and science? 
>I seem to recall seeing some (or at least one) books on this, but I
>don't seem to be able to find any at the local book stores.
>

Pardon the net.faux.pas, but how 'bout The Apprentice Adept series,
at least the first 3, by Piers Anthony. It's not as much a direct
battle as a polarization, but there is a mix/comparison of the two.

-----------------------------------------------------------
" 'Eureka' is Greek for 'This bath is too hot'. "
               Tom Baker / Doctor Who
Ken Luther, Mathematician Extraordinaire
NRL, Code 5162         | Washington, DC. 20375 | (202)767-3149
1667 S. Hayes St, Unit A | Arlington, VA 22202 | (703)521-6973
-----------------------------------------------------------
From: chuq@gallant.apple.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Walter M. Miller, Jr.
Date: 1 Sep 92 00:15:33 GMT
Organization: I is a writur

lvari@spam.ua.oz.au (Lino Vari) writes:

>Hi, I was wondering if anyone out there could provide me with some information
>on the mysterious Walter M. Miller, Jr..

Nice man (at least, from my minimal contact with him). Lives in Florida. 
Writes on Apple II and Apple /// computers. Current project is the sequel to
CANTICLE FOR LEIBOWITZ, which is his first SF in 25 years or so.

-- 
Chuq "IMHO" Von Rospach, ESD Support & Training (DAL/AUX) =+= Member, SFWA
  chuq@apple.com | GEnie: MAC.BIGOT | ALink:CHUQ =+= Editor, OtherRealms
	A real SF writur with stories in ALTERNATE KENNEDYS and THE 
	  FURTHER ADVENTURES OF BATMAN, in better bookstores now!
From: ddb@tdkt.kksys.com (David Dyer-Bennet)
Sender: FredGate@tdkt.kksys.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Postmodern Sf
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 21:58:23 -0600

 KS> TDE initially appears to be an alternate history.  It also initially
 KS> appears to be a spy thriller.  The story keeps mutating, however, and
 KS> expectations are set up and then not followed through on.  The man
 KS> being set up as the prime mover of the 'spy' plot is killed at the end
 KS> of the first section, and the P.O.V. character, a woman, simply
 KS> vanishes from the book, reappearing only briefly at the end.  Readers
 KS> familiar with the end of Gravity's Rainbow will not be startled by this,
 KS> but anybody expecting a straightforward projective alternate history will
 KS> have a right to be.  Many people I know
 KS> who've read it have been irritated
 KS> by this.  But wait, what's really going on here?

Yes, it's bothered a whole lot of people, and quite rightly so.  The
technical term for this is "cheating the reader".

 KS> Gibson and Sterling have said that the book was written entirely on
 KS> word processor (no paper drafts) largely by a process of 'plagiarism':
 KS> they plundered Victorian literature for narrative, description, and
 KS> dialogue which they incorporated almost without change into the novel.

"cheating" isn't important to my evaluation of this tactic.  But this
explains why so much of the novel is so badly written; they
apparently stole it from generic Victorian literature (not the good
stuff, obviously), and didn't bother to fix it.  The "no paper
drafts" seems to me a sign of yet another book sacrificed to a
theory;  Somebody said "wouldn't it be neat if..." and they did, not
bothering to think about whether it would be good for the book or not.

 KS> You can read the entire thing without making this
 KS> interpretation.   

Definitely; I certainly did.  Now that it's been suggested, it isn't
particularly illuminating or convincing, either.

 KS> The
 KS> careful use of historical language and narrative style (to the point of
 KS> lifting entire chunks of prose from books of the time) and the fact
 KS> that the plots of the novel's sections are essentially period plots,
 KS> and banal, allows a traditional reading at any point.

In fact, the use of historical language is one of the things done
very badly in this book.  I had the misfortune to read it shortly
after re-reading a dozen books by a master of the historical novel
(Patrick O'Brian), which are set a few decades earlier (a long time
for some purposes, but not so long for language), and the difference
between the limp, dead, prose of Gibson and Sterling and the live,
exciting language of O'Brian is breathtaking.

 KS> Only when you
 KS> finish the whole, step back and look at it, does another interpretation
 KS> demand itself. 

Hmm; when it called to demand it must have forgotten to leave a
message on my machine.

 * Origin: Taste happens (1:282/341.0)
From: jlpicard@austin.ibm.com (Craig Becker)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: A Really Good SF Short Story
Date: 31 Aug 92 14:20:06 GMT
Reply-To: craigb@ot.austin.ibm.com
Organization: IBM Object Technology Products
Originator: jlpicard@woofer.austin.ibm.com


dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig) writes:
> levine@symcom.math.uiuc.edu (Lenore Levine):
> >Pamela Sargent wrote a story, "Danny Goes to Mars," in the latest issue
> >of IASFM, that, if there's any justice in this world, should get a 
> >Hugo. Or a Nebula. Or at least three or four of them each.
> >It uses the powerful theme of a very limited person who...
> 
> If my inference from the hints you're dropping is correct, you're
> asking people to award Hugos for Dan Quayle jokes.  (I haven't read
> the story, so it seems pointless to put up spoiler warnings.)  Will
> this still be worth reading ten years from now?

While I don't think the story was deserving of an award, I thought
it was pretty good. And, surprisingly, it _wasn't_ a big DQ joke:
on the contrary, it painted a picture of Quayle that was (IMHO)
quite complimentary. I mean, he certainly wasn't represented as any
kind of genius, but as a somewhat naive yet basically good guy trying
to do the Good and Right thing. In fact, the best "Quayle Joke" in the
story wasn't even insulting (ref: when DQ assumed that the black woman
was a basketball fan).

Craig
-- 
-- "You can expect virtually      Craig Becker, Object Technology Products --
--  anything from a people who had      Internet: craigb@ot.austin.ibm.com --
--  nuclear weapons in the early      IBM TR: craigb@woofer.austin.ibm.com --
--  seventeenth century."                           VNET: CRAIGB at AUSVM1 --
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written