From: aj@hoqas2.att.com (Ahmad M Jrad)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Paul, Could he be wrong?
Date: 13 Aug 92 07:17:46 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <Aug.10.00.55.07.1992.6133@dartagnan.rutgers.edu>, aaron@binah.cc.brandeis.edu (Scott Aaron) writes:
> 
> All Paul says is that [...] We are not under Law but under grace.  

Yes but the quote from Matthew suggests the opposite. It states in no
uncertain terms that anyone who breaks the law, shall be called least
in the kingdom of heaven. (see Mt. 5.19)

> Further, your Matthew quote does not talk about teaching men to disregard the 
> Law.  It's about Christians who sin with impunity (c.f. Romans 6).

Wait, now I am confused. You cite Romans to ascertain that Matthew does
not talk about teaching men to diregard the law. Why not look at Matthew's
words to see what he says? Why read Matthew in Romans? I believe that the
Quote from Matthew is very clear on this, I quote it in part again (NIV):

5:19  Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches
others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but
whoever practices, and teaches these commands will be called great in the
kingdom of heaven.

As for Romans 6, It speaks in metaphors, something which Paul is very adept
at doing. But I am not sure what he is saying. He claims all Christians
are already dead and resurrected! This is clearly not the case. Paul says
that Christians are dead and so are free from sin (Rom. 6:7), but can't
you see that you are very much alive? This is another subject though.

> There is
> judgement for Christians as well as for non-believers.  Our judgement is
> for rewards in heaven.  The man who sins with impunity receives fewer
> rewards than the one who lives a blameless life and, therefore, will be
> least in the kingdom of God.

This is interesting! so I take it that you interpret the quote "least in the
kingdom of God" to mean someone in Heaven and not in Hell. I understood it
as someone not in heaven but in the deepest place of Hell. Actually, I think
that Jesus also explains this in 5:20 when he says that "ye shall in no
case enter into the kingdom of heaven" That is my understanding of being
called least.

> This has nothing to do with obeying the Law.  The Pharisees were hypocrites
> because they claimed to follow the Law but didn't.  

Actually, they did follow the law, and meticulously so. But, they only
followed the letter of the law, and did not have the required faith
behind it. That is why Jesus upbraided them for their ways.

>   -- Scott @Brandeis

Ahmad

[I'm not sure I agree with all of Scott's comments.  I do think
Matthew was concerned about the Law.  The question however is what
Jesus meant by the Law.  Note that in the rest of this Sermon, Jesus
does a good deal of reinterpretation of the Law.  I think the best
summary is that he turns people's attention away from the letter of
the Law to its spirit.  In effect he emphasizes doing the right thing,
but legalistically.  I think this is quite compatible with Paul's
intent.

The Kingdom of Heaven is used consistently in Matthew for the
community that obeys God.  Look at all the parables that talk about
the Kingdom of Heaven.  I don't want to identify it with heaven,
because it is also present on earth.  But it certainly doesn't include
hell.  "Least in the Kingdom of Heaven" is certainly an indication of
disapproval, but I don't see any way you can turn it into deepest
hell.

As for Paul's idea of death to sin: This is the basic Christian idea
of rebirth in Christ.  It's a restatement of Jesus' talk about being
"born again".  The idea is that sin is so deeply lodged in us that we
have to be completely remade through God's power.  Our old self, which
is in opposition to God, must die, and be replaced by a new one based
on the Holy Spirit.  This is heavily metaphorical language, as you
yourself seem to realize.  But it's tied in with a number of things
that make the metaphor inevitable: the fact that the rebirth is only
possible by Jesus' death for us, and the fact that the process of
repentenance really feels like trying to kill a part of ourselves.

--clh]