HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: SEK@psuvm.psu.edu (Sonja Kueppers)
Newsgroups: alt.support.big-folks
Subject: Re: (Fat) girls just wanna have...what?
Date: 21 Aug 92 00:38:28 GMT
Organization: Penn State University

In article <1992Aug20.215029.3988@Princeton.EDU>, libbie@phoenix.Princeton.EDU
(Libbie Counselman) says:
>
>I'd like to add that this bothers me also, and not just for the reasons
>that Naomi described.  Having someone interested in me *because of* how
>I *look*, thin or fat, is annoying, because all they see is the
>packaging, not the contents.

I think it's really odd to imagine that someone running into you somewhere
is going to be interested in getting to know you better if there isn't
something about you, physically, that interests them.

For example, I notice hair.  That's not to say that someone with bad hair
isn't going to interest me, but someone with great hair is going to
catch my attention.

I also find that there are certain physical types that catch my attention
or turn me on, generally based on the physical types I've gotten used to
in other relationships.  A skinny guy, for example, is much more likely
to attract my attention than a muscular one, because I have known (and
do know) some men I was/am very much attracted to who are skinny, while
I've never known any muscular men who I was particularly interested in.

I'm sure there are always going to be people who are going to find
my physical appearance, be it the expression on my face, the way I
do my hair, the color of my eyes, the style of my clothes, the build
of my feet, the color of my skin, the brightness of my smile,
or the dimensions of my body attractive in some way.  I think
that's just the way people are.

Of course, I would hope that after they got to know me, they would
find more there to attract them than what I look like.

I'd also like them to find my body attractive, since it would
be an awful pity to get sexually involved with someone who wasn't
interested in my body...

-Sonja
------
SEK@psuvm.psu.edu SEK@PSUVM.BITNET
Love is not enough.  It must be the foundation, the cornerstone --
but not the complete structure.  It is much too pliable, too yielding.
                                            - Bette Davis
Newsgroups: alt.support.big-folks
From: cc_paul@rcvie.co.at (Wolf Paul)
Subject: Re: (Fat) girls just wanna have...what?
Reply-To: cc_paul@rcvie.co.at (Wolf N. Paul)
Organization: Alcatel Austria - Elin Research Center, Vienna
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 09:02:03 GMT

In article <16bhpjINN51v@nigel.msen.com> nsv@heifetz.msen.com (Naomi S. Valentine) writes:
>To the fat woman who faces job discrimination, familial persecution in one
>form or another, hunger, self-hatred, and general hostility from random 
>people on the street, the fact that her conversation partner has found 
>fat women attractive does not always comfort her.  In fact, sometimes it 
>sounds suspiciously similar to a white person saying, "Some of my best 
>friends are black" - a rather defensive way of attempting to exempt 
>oneself from any oppressor group.  

I have a real problem with the concept that there are "oppressor groups"
that are defined simply by their skin color or ethnic background. It
is no more justified than the concept that there are "inferior" or
"superior" peoples who are also defined simply by skin color or ethnicity.

Mind you, I am not denying that there is oppression of, say, Blacks,
and that it comes largely from white people, but that does not justify
the assumption, "Every white is a member of the oppressor group", and
if he says anything about his black friends, that he is "defensively
attempting to exempt himself".

I have black friends, Indian friends, white friends, fat friends, slim
friends, male friends, female friends; and there are plenty of blacks,
whites, Indians, fat people and slim people (and everything in between),
men and women, whom I dislike. Why do I have to explain to anyone that my
like or dislike has nothing to do with their size, color, accent, or with
sexual attaction or the lack thereof? Why do I have to listen to b.s.
like the assumption that my colored friends are just a "defensive
attempt to prove my lack of prejudice or oppression"?

I can understand that government, in attempt to rectify past and
ongoing injustice, might create rules which, i.e., favor blacks over whites,
or women over men, or handicapped folks over healthy folks,
with no reference to the individual person's involvement in the
injustice. I DO NOT understand or tolerate it when this attitude
enters into personal relationships. In that case it's just bigotry, 
of an "inverse redneck" or "female chauvinist" varity.

>Well, that's certainly enough for an initial post on the subject.  I'm 
>interested in what folks think about this.

You asked for it :-) ... and it is not meant as an attack on you or
anyone else, rather a criticism of a current trend in Western
society.
-- 
            V              
+-----------------------+  Wolf N. Paul, Computer Center         wnp@rcvie.co.at
|  A  L  C  A  T  E  L  |  Alcatel-Elin Research Center     +43-1-391621-122 (w)
+-----------------------+  Ruthnergasse 1-7                   +43-1-391452 (fax)
      ELIN RESEARCH        A-1210 Vienna-Austria/Europe        +43-1-2246913 (h)
Newsgroups: alt.support.big-folks
From: libbie@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Libbie Counselman)
Subject: Re: (Fat) girls just wanna have...what?
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 21:50:29 GMT


>Avery Ray Colter writes:
>
>>And on that day,
>>The few fierce/angry/joyous/sensuous males
>>Whose minds and bodies and spirits were made for the purpose
>>Will revel in that rampant surge,
>>Will take up the spread in their arms,
>>Will dive headlong into the swell,
>>Will purr to the undulations.

Naomi S. Valentine writes:
>
>Avery's post set me to thinking about several issues, which I'd like to 
>explore with the clear understanding that this is absolutely not a 
>personal attack on him.  In fact, I enjoyed his post/poem very much. 
> 
>I've sometimes been distressed that when I describe to thin men (and 
>some thin women, and some fat men and women) the problems that fat women 
>face, they very often respond by telling me how attractive they've found 
>(certain) fat women.   [...text omitted...]  In fact, sometimes it 
>sounds suspiciously similar to a white person saying, "Some of my best 
>friends are black" - a rather defensive way of attempting to exempt 
>oneself from any oppressor group.  


I'd like to add that this bothers me also, and not just for the reasons
that Naomi described.  Having someone interested in me *because of* how
I *look*, thin or fat, is annoying, because all they see is the
packaging, not the contents.  I want to be appreciated, or loved, for
what is in my soul, not for the vehicle made to carry that soul.  Would
someone who is attracted to fat women reject a thin woman who had all the
other personal qualities he desired?  If so, that is just as superficial, 
IMHO, as the person who rejects the fat woman just because she is fat.
The way our culture emphasizes looks over other personal qualities, to
the extent that individuals are rejected before people even take the time 
to *discover* those personal qualities, simply boggles my mind.


-Libbie C.

Newsgroups: alt.support
From: hollowr@atlantis.CS.ORST.EDU (R. Holloway)
Subject: Re: Need Divorce support
Summary: Kindness
Keywords: love yourself
Organization: Computer Science Outreach Services - Oregon State University
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 03:20:01 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.010150.12176@odin.corp.sgi.com> steveh@okam.corp.sgi.com (Steve Hill) writes:
>In article <2A894112.30A7@tct.com>, lenore@tct.com (Lenore Cook)
>writes:
>|> I will soon be asking my husband for a divorce.  We have been
>|> together
>|> seven years and married since April 1991.  I suppose I just want
>|> some encouragement that I won't be viewed as "damaged goods" in the
>|> single world.  This was my first and only marriage and I'm very
>|> unhappy that it has to end....Please be nice. I'm real sensitive
>|> right
>|> now.
>
>Lenore, you will only be perceived as "damaged goods" if you feel like
>damaged goods.  This phase of feeling like that may last a while, but
>isn't permanent.
> [stuff deleted]
>Steve
>

Lenore:  

While I missed your original post - I've only just resubscribed to this group - 
I'd say you are feeling exactly the same as all of us who've worked through
a divorce.  This may not help in your circumstance, but it's normal.  You 
loose a frame of reference (your ex) who validated your self worth & identity.
You begin to wonder about your self image as contrasted against society's 
stereotype that the woman is the glue of relationships.  Society heaps so much
crap on women to be responsible for failed relationships.

The essential question, IMHO, is how do you feel about yourself?  If you feel
that thee is no other way to conclude the situation, but divorce, then your
feelings are valid.  No one but you can answer these questions.  

You are a person, possessed of unique talents, abilities, and/or liabilities,
& you are not damaged goods or even tainted.  You are a human being - rejoice
in that humaness & love yourself.  

Steve:

I empathize with your situation, but "Craziness" is non-specific.  It tells 
us nothing.  I was married 14 years & seperated for two.  It was not the
problem that she changed her sexual orientation, but rather the lying &
dishonesty issues that caused me trouble.  I've dealt with them & it didn't
take me any period of justification (e.g., Crazies), but rather realizing 
that I am significant & worthwhile.  My ex's problems (if one wishes to
typify them as a problem - I don't) are her own & she must deal with the
consequences of her actions.  I'm not responsible for her life or her at-
titudes.  

To both of you, good luck & pax vobiscum.

Warm regards,

Newsgroups: alt.support
From: hoppersm@infonode.ingr.com (Marcia Hoppers)
Subject: Re: Life
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 18:03:12 GMT

> answers, I did find life and peace.  Somewhere in the process someone
> told me to quit asking why, they told me "why" will always be a diversion.
> There are no answers, when we ask why we go in circles.  They said if I

Dana's article reminded me of something I read recently:

	"...be patient toward all that is unsolved in your heart and try
	to love the questions themselves like locked rooms and like books
	that are written in a very foreign tongue. Do not seek the answers,
	which cannot be given you because you would not be able to live
	them...Live everything. Live the questions now"

				- Rainer Maria Rilke


Newsgroups: alt.satanism
From: jwi@world.std.com (Jazzman)
Subject: Good Shamanism reference?
Organization: Nexus
Distribution: alt.satanism
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 14:40:29 GMT

   I'm looking for a good reference from which I can learn more about
Shamanism.  Ideally, this reference would also be a manual for someone
interested in participating in Shamanism.

Thanks,   John  (jwi@world.std.com)

Newsgroups: alt.satanism,alt.atheism,soc.motss,sci.physics,alt.religion.emacs,talk.religion.newage,alt.pagan,alt.sex,talk.religion.misc
From: nyh@wpi.WPI.EDU (Nevo Y Hed)
Subject: Re: Subject?
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 18:44:18 GMT

In article <FeosPB2w176w@west.darkside.com> safecrac@west.darkside.com (Chris Colvin) writes:
>Jesus Saves


Bullshit, he is dead.  


BTW, did anyone recently hear about the archeolgical excavation in
Israel?  The reports on the radio said a coffin was found with the
name of the Jewish priest who handed Jessus to the Romans...

Well, a friend of mine in Israel told me that actually the coffin
said "Yeshua" which is Jessus in Hebrew.  It was reported differently
as to not cause the colapse of the Christian world - but with ppl like
this Colvin dude, I just had to tell you.


So, Jessus is dead... I saw zilions of bumper stickers say "Jessus
died for you" - so he is dead and get that into that skull of yours
and stop bulshiting us about him - you know, G*d gets really ticked of
[assuming one exists] when his name is used in vain.


	-Nevo


p.s. part of this post is pure fiction
-- 
Nevo Y.	 Hed              nyh@wpi.wpi.edu
++1-508-754-2491          CS student, Worcester Polytechnic Institute.
"I like my cigar too, but I take it out of my mouth from time to time" G.Marx
From: dart@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Dart the Witchling)
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
Subject: Re: Good Shamanism reference?
Date: 20 Aug 92 09:19:43 GMT
Distribution: alt.satanism
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center

In article <1992Aug19.225901.19292@ctr.columbia.edu> locklin@titan.ucc.umass.edu (SCOTT C LOCKLIN) writes:
> Most of the shamanic stuff I have read (supposedly) derives from N American
>shamanic paths, the Siberian, African & S American stuff is just as valid.
>One problem I have with all this stuff is that it doesn't take into account
>all the modern day things, that is to say, in the old days the Shaman used
>power animals; things common to him and his enviornment, today we should find
>ways to utilize things common to us and our envoirnment; i.e. technology
>social forces etc. William Gibson in his short story Shaman, gives a picture
>of what I think the modern shaman should be like, using high technology
>and old shamanic ways...
>Instead of the standard New-Age/Native American pap W.G.'s Shaman uses modern
>archetypes: BUZZ (giver of highs)
>            BUST (big cop in the sky) etc...

	About the shaman sits a collection of odd utensils in a septagram.
In the north sits a roll of duct-tape, in the south a LONG bic lighter, in
the east an electric carving knife, and in the west, an empty beer bottle.
	In the center of it all sits an electric crockpot filled with steaming
peyote-enhanced goo.  The shaman ladles out some and puts it to Hir lips.
	"Guardians of the watchtowers of the north," he chants,"creatures of
solid matter, I bid you enter this circle and welcome!"
	"Guardians of the watchtowers of the East, creatures of gaseous
matter, I bid you enter this circle and welcome!"
	SHe continues this with the Southern beings of Plasma, and the Western
beings of Liquid matter, and then carries on around the circle, invoking the
Northwestern being of marshmallow, the northeastern beings of plastic, the
southwestern beings of abandoned construction materials, and the southeastern
beings of orange.
	Then SHe turns to the circle itself, with a large number of candles
making up the disc.  SHe pulls out a Periodical Table and begins ligthing the
candles as SHe invokes the Elements. 
	Hir allies spring up, a car, a dog, a dancing screwdriver, and an 
electric light.
	Suddenly the room is invaded by dog-faced demons.
	So, naturally, in the spirit of RA Wilson, SHe feeds them shrimp
cocktail and they turn into nuns.

s that about right?
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
From: locklin@titan.ucc.umass.edu (SCOTT C LOCKLIN)
Subject: Re: Good Shamanism reference?
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst
Distribution: alt.satanism
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 21:45:51 GMT
X-Posted-From: titan.ucc.umass.edu
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <57337@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> dart@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Dart the Witchling) writes:
>In article <1992Aug19.225901.19292@ctr.columbia.edu> locklin@titan.ucc.umass.edu (SCOTT C LOCKLIN) writes:
>> Most of the shamanic stuff I have read (supposedly) derives from N American
>>shamanic paths, the Siberian, African & S American stuff is just as valid.
>>One problem I have with all this stuff is that it doesn't take into account
>>all the modern day things, that is to say, in the old days the Shaman used
>>power animals; things common to him and his enviornment, today we should find
>>ways to utilize things common to us and our envoirnment; i.e. technology
>>social forces etc. William Gibson in his short story Shaman, gives a picture
>>of what I think the modern shaman should be like, using high technology
>>and old shamanic ways...
>>Instead of the standard New-Age/Native American pap W.G.'s Shaman uses modern
>>archetypes: BUZZ (giver of highs)
>>            BUST (big cop in the sky) etc...
>
>	About the shaman sits a collection of odd utensils in a septagram.
>In the north sits a roll of duct-tape, in the south a LONG bic lighter, in
>the east an electric carving knife, and in the west, an empty beer bottle.
>	In the center of it all sits an electric crockpot filled with steaming
>peyote-enhanced goo.  The shaman ladles out some and puts it to Hir lips.
>	"Guardians of the watchtowers of the north," he chants,"creatures of
>solid matter, I bid you enter this circle and welcome!"
>	"Guardians of the watchtowers of the East, creatures of gaseous
>matter, I bid you enter this circle and welcome!"
>	SHe continues this with the Southern beings of Plasma, and the Western
>beings of Liquid matter, and then carries on around the circle, invoking the
>Northwestern being of marshmallow, the northeastern beings of plastic, the
>southwestern beings of abandoned construction materials, and the southeastern
>beings of orange.
>	Then SHe turns to the circle itself, with a large number of candles
>making up the disc.  SHe pulls out a Periodical Table and begins ligthing the
>candles as SHe invokes the Elements. 
>	Hir allies spring up, a car, a dog, a dancing screwdriver, and an 
>electric light.
>	Suddenly the room is invaded by dog-faced demons.
>	So, naturally, in the spirit of RA Wilson, SHe feeds them shrimp
>cocktail and they turn into nuns.
>
>s that about right?

Well- something like that, minus the enochian/watchtower stuff...

-Scott (evil Alchemist)
From: D_NIBBY@UNHH.UNH.EDU (Dana   Nibby)
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
Subject: Jesus Saves?
Date: 21 Aug 92 13:54:21 GMT


 Jesus saves... at K-Mart!

   or should that be:

 
   Jesus saves ... at Wal-mart.


     Lux,

      Dana
From: dart@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Dart the Witchling)
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
Subject: Re: Lavey et al
Date: 19 Aug 92 07:01:32 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center

In article <714058570.610000.D_NIBBY@UNHH.UNH.EDU> D_NIBBY@UNHH.UNH.EDU (Dana   Nibby) writes:
>  I remember hearing some place that LaVey began his shtick doing
>'satanic' strip shows. Heh... I've heard he's always been quite
>the show man. Did he do the stripping or just organize them?

	He licked the floor afterwards.

>It's no surprise really, the whole Satanism thing, considering one
>of his heroes is P.T. Barnum. He has to be sitting in his home
>in SF (or wherever) and laughing heartily. I haven't read the
>Satanic Bible myself, but have heard it's laughable. With things
>like the 'Invocation to Lust,' which I've heard is ridiculous.

	Whe said religion shoud be serious?

>Maybe LaVey fancies himself the new P.T. Barnum. LaVey must love
>L. Ron Hubbard. I'll pick up a used copy of the Satanic Bible myself

	No, he probably despises brainwashing.

>and check it out for myself sometime. I certainly wouldn't buy it

	That would be a good idea before trying to talk about
satanism, which IS what you are presumed to be doing on a group called
alt.satanism

>new and add to LaVey's fortune. Maybe that's the high teaching
>of satanism that only LaVey himself knows, "There's a sucker born
>every minute," although I've heard satanists using that quote.

	I doubt that he is all that rich.  Well off, perhaps, but not 
quite rich.  If he was I doubt if he would accept spots on Geraldo -- he'd
at least hold out for Letterman.
	And BTW, Benjamin Franklin, member of the Hellfire Club, came up
with that quote.


>So there are nested levels of knowledge perhaps. Perhaps... It's
>fun to speculate. I find all of this terribly amusing. 

	Then maybe we're doing something right?

>
>  Where can I learn more about it? I'd like to read some books
>debunking satanists (not written by Christians please...) and
>books by 'true believers.' Can anyone recommend some?

	Just go out and get Cosmic Trigger, by Robert Anton Wilson.
He's not a xtian, he's a "deliberate agnostic".
	Or ontological terrorist, for short.


	Luxembourg,
					D
From: dart@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Dartanyan the Witchling)
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
Subject: Re: I'd sell my soul for ....
Date: 18 Aug 92 02:22:53 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center

>We'll grant you 158 acres in Vultures Bend.  You will start off with no
>subjects, and no funds.  You are responsible for generating 2 million cu.ft.
>of water a day, as well as 20000 pounds of watermellon every six months.
>This is your fee payable to Satan through the district chief of Vultures
>Bend.  You have 1 year in which to organise your affairs here on earth and
>then you must report for duty.
>
>Thank you, it's been a pleasure doing business with you.
>
>NEXT!
d
d
d
d
d
d
d
dd			Sounds like SimCity.
				DODGER

d
d
d
d
d
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d

Xref: sparky alt.satanism:1855 alt.atheism:15622 soc.motss:36472 talk.religion.newage:3959 alt.pagan:8217 alt.sex:27350 talk.religion.misc:14521
From: bear@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Bear Giles)
Newsgroups: alt.satanism,alt.atheism,soc.motss,talk.religion.newage,alt.pagan,alt.sex,talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Get these guys off here! (was Subject?)
Date: 22 Aug 92 19:33:33 GMT
Organization: National Oceanic & Atmospheric Adminstration / Boulder Labs

In article <1992Aug21.174719.25628@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> berninge@iron.ecn.purdue.edu (James A Berninger) writes:
>In article <1992Aug21.033151.24207@colorado.edu> bear@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Bear Giles) writes:
>>In article <FeosPB2w176w@west.darkside.com> safecrac@west.darkside.com (Chris Colvin) writes:
>>>Jesus Saves
>>[Atypical response deleted]
>>'safecrac@west.darkside.com' is a pseudonym.  Chris Colvin may or may
>>not be, but God knows.  See you in Hell, 'Chris.'
>
>Chris Colvin is probably not a pseudonym.  A quick look at the
>newsgroups line, and some cross-checking, brings up the "Survey"
>thread from last week -- will you go to heaven? etc.  That thread
>was posted by Chris and Susan Colvin, 70253.2621@CompuServe.COM.

"Atypical response"?

Why would you say that?  I value integrity highly, and according
to the Decalogue so does the Christian god:  _Thou shalt not bear
false witness_.

If I am wrong and the Christian god judges me in the future, I can
honestly point to the fact that I have received anonymous mail from
people bearing false names like safecrac[ker]@west.DARKSIDE.com and
LUCIFER@EVIL.DOMAIN.  Even though they were bearing His word and
had nothing to fear from mortals anyway, they hid behind a pseudonym
like they were _ashamed_ of the message.

I just wished to point out to them precisely what they were doing --
_forcing_ people from their god.

BTW, I thought "Chris Colvin" looked familiar, but the "Survey" 
thread is already in my kill files.


Bear Giles
bear@fsl.noaa.gov
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
From: locklin@titan.ucc.umass.edu (SCOTT C LOCKLIN)
Subject: Re: Satan
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 00:07:03 GMT
X-Posted-From: titan.ucc.umass.edu
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1992Aug10.120944.22715@cs.mun.ca> brian@odie.cs.mun.ca (Brian Paquet) writes:
> I have seen this we are satanist but don't worship satan thing
>Facts are By definition a satanist worships or at least
>follows the tenits of satan..

Who's definition bozo? Where'd you learn to spell?

>So when I get my PhD in military history I will
>call myself an economist [claiming that I am studingthe

I believe learning how to spell & write a grammatically correct sentance is
a prerequisite to getting any PhD...

>worship the most bodatious satan to call themselves satan

We worship nobody, whats "bodatious" mean (a la Bill & Ted?)

>I FLEX IN YOUR GENERAL DIRECTION!!! :)
>VOLCANO

I fart in your general direction, punk.

-Scott
>