HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: steven@spxtech.qc.ca (Steve Potter)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: "F/E" versus "Bienvenue/Welcome": Update
Date: 18 Aug 92 01:15:43 GMT
Organization: Securiplex Technologies Inc., Montreal, Canada
X-Bytes: 2295

From article <Bt4uzH.6z1@ireq.hydro.qc.ca>, by beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca
 Denis Beauregard writes:-

> In article <1992Aug16.124308.7895@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu> ematias@dgp.toronto.edu (Edgar Matias) writes:
>>
>>This is *very* interesting.  So, if I understand correctly, it would be
>>*legal* to have a sign that said (in French) in BIG letters "F*CK THE 
>>LANGUAGE LAWS" with the word "welcome" (in many languages) written in _small_
>>letters underneath?
>>
>>Hm...  Maybe it's a good thing I don't live in Quebec...  ;-)
> Reciprocally...
>>
>>Edgar
> 
> This would not be legal.  The small letters message shall be the same.
> Moreover, maybe there is something againt hate signs.

  Sorry Denis, but I think you would find that such a sign is legal.

  The small message does not have to be the same as the more "predominant"
  French message. 

  The Quebec government posters are of this type.

  In any case "F*CK THE LANGUAGE LAWS" is not a commercial sign - it is
  an ideological one.

  There may well be something in the laws relating to obscenities preventing
  the use of the word "F*CK" but, as I pointed out earlier, there is nothing
  preventing the use of the word "STUFF" - to the best of my knowledge.

  So a sign such as:-


             -------------------------------
             |                             |
             | **************************  |
             |  STUFF THE LANGUAGE LAWS!   |
             | **************************  |
             |                             |
             |   Bonjour!    Hello!        |
             |                             |
             |   Buenos Dias!  Welcome!    |
             |                             |
             |   Hi there!    Gindobre!    |
             |                             |
             |   Come in!    Entrarse!     |
             |                             |
             -------------------------------

    would appear to be quite legal as an ideological message.

-- 
  ///==================================================================\\\
  ||| Steve Potter:         steven%spxtech@CAM.ORG                     |||
  ||| Expertise/Experience: Computer Systems Engineering / Real Ale /  |||
  |||                       Politics in Education in Quebec            |||
Xref: sparky can.politics:6117 soc.culture.canada:5984
From: pierre@chaos.phys.ualberta.ca (Pierre Rouleau)
Subject: Re: Queen Mitsou of Canada 
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 21:55:46 GMT

Michele et Rheal,

Regardez la verite en face. Rheal votre seule
chance de vous qualifiez comme "Grande Cheftaine
Spirituelle de notre Grand Etat" c'est de
"subir la Grande Operation". Avant de prendre
votre premier rendez-vous a la clinique,
pensez a ce que vous allez devoir dire a vos
deux charmantes filles ainsi qu'a votre epouse !!
Voila donc l'epreuve ultime de votre nationalisme:
jusqu'ou etes-vous pret a aller ?

Tant qu'a vous, Michele, j'ai bien peur que vous
n'ayez aucune chance de plaire a tous les sujets.
Pensez a l'inefable Robin Collins ! un republicain
en plus. Je suis certain qu'il vous deteste alors
qu'il y ait de fortes chances qu'il possede une
immense photographie de Mitsou au dessus de son lit !!

Mitsou - Elle - est adoree de tous. Son charme et sa
grace transcendent toutes les cultures composant la
population Canadienne. On ne peut que lui reprocher
de ne pas avoir encore d'heritiere. Devinez qui se
propose de remedier au probleme ? Eh! oui MOI !!!
Ne vous en faites pas, je ne suis pas un vulgaire
roturier. Pour le prouver d'ailleurs je compte sur
le Grand Genealogiste qu'est "Le Sieur Denis de Beauregard " 

INCLINEZ-VOUS !! PROSTERNEZ-VOUS !!! Peut-etre qu'ainsi, dans
ma magnificience, je vous eviterez les travaux forces dans
les mines de sel de Windsor ...

Pierre - Futur Regent de la Couronne -

Xref: sparky can.politics:5946 soc.culture.canada:5774
From: yadallee@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Dave Shariff Yadallee)
Newsgroups: can.politics,soc.culture.canada
Subject: Re: Republicanisn vs. Monarchists
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 92 06:32:00 MDT
Organization: Edmonton Remote Systems #1, Edmonton, AB, Canada

smith@minerva.harvard.edu (Steven Smith) writes:

-
- Not that I mistrust your sagacity in these matters, but this does
- flout the wisdom of Machiavelli, who wrote that of all cities or
- countries, republics are the hardest to conquer and to govern, while
- those ruled by a prince are the easiest.  Are you so sure that a
- republican Canada would so quickly succumb?
-
- Steven Smith

  All the US has to do is to issue an invite' and if Canada refuses, secret
economic sanctions comes in so that we do bow down indeed.

Next!!

Dave Shariff Yadallee
yadallee@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca, userLIBE@mts.ucs.ualberta.ca
God Save the Queen, God Bless us All!
cowboy (n): A 20th Century extension of  the neanderthal caveman.
From: thood@corvus.matrox.com (Thomas Hood)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: The tentative agreement of August 19th
Date: 20 Aug 92 17:46:10 GMT
Organization: Matrox Ltd.

golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy) writes:

>With this deal, Don Getty is agreeing for perpetuity that Alberta
>will have less than rep by pop in the House of Commons, in the
>Senate, and on the Supreme Court (and in fact the worst representation
>of any province on the Supreme Court).  BC and Alberta lose, lose,
>and lose in this deal...but at least BC has a SC justice.   

Oops: forgot to mention that other concession to Quebec -- guaranteed
three of nine Supreme Court justices.  Still, I doubt that this
is very significant.  Judges are only responsible to their consciences.

>Central Canada, with this deal, will likely almost certainly always
>have greater than rep by pop in the House of Commons [...]
>With the addition seats in the Commons given to Central Canada,
>and the threshold for Quebec, Central Canada gains power in this
>deal in terms of raw voting power.

The August 19th agreement moves the Commons closer to rep-by-pop, not
further away (because the Quebec and Ontario are currently
underrepresented), but it may cause Quebec to become overrepresented
as its population share declines.

>It seems Alberta's worst enemy in this constitutional deal is
>Don Getty.
>
>Bourassa is a genius...I stand in awe!  

That was my reaction, too.  :-)

--
Thomas Hood                                                    thood@matrox.com
Xref: sparky can.politics:6112 soc.culture.canada:5978
From: beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca (Denis Beauregard)
Newsgroups: can.politics,soc.culture.canada
Subject: Re: Absolute Madness... Naturally.
Date: 21 Aug 92 17:30:31 GMT
Organization: Institut de recherche d'Hydro-Quebec, Varennes, Canada

In article <1992Aug20.204535.2577@bcrka451.bnr.ca> nadeau@bnr.ca (Rheal Nadeau) writes:
>Or else, Denis may get a severe shock, and find out that he does NOT
>represent the views of Quebec as a whole.
>
>The Rhealist - Rheal Nadeau - nadeau@bnr.ca - Speaking only for myself

In this case, I do not pretend to represent opinion of others and did say
say that.  

In previous postings, I just tried to depict what the Quebec was
generally thinking about a few topics and someday many postings indicated
that some readers were finally understanding Quebec.

In this case, in an agreement that is not even completed, we all can only
speculate.  Impression that Quebec get more power may vanish in the
actual application of the agreement.

-- 
  \_\    Denis Beauregard  *  internet:beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca
 /   \   Genealogiste officiel : Beauregard/Jarret/Jarest/Vincent
J   __>  Barthelemy Jarret (1471) -> Andre Jarret, sieur de Beauregard (1665)
\_.-===   -> Denis Beauregard (1992)                  Opinions ? Et pis non !
Newsgroups: can.politics
From: stevew@teleride.on.ca (Stephen M. Webb)
Subject: Re: re. a proposal
Organization: Teleride Sage Ltd.
Distribution: can
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 16:04:27 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.711.8791@dosgate> "stephanie fysh" <stephanie.fysh@canrem.com> writes:
>Peter Deutsch writes:
>PD>Fortunately, I can help...
>
>PD>In the spirit of compromise and can-do spirit that has made Canada what it
>PD>is today, I willingly offer the services of my family as the new Canadian
>PD>Royal House. Our qualifications are impeccable, we are available to start
>PD>immediately, and we're reasonably priced. What more could you want?
>
>[all the rest deleted]
>
>OK, so we've got *two* candidates, now.  Care to outline *your* family's
>qualifications, Rheal?  :)


PICK ME!  I promise to do as little or less for this country as the current
monarch.  Make me head of state and I promise I won't ever interfere with
how the government works, I'll just show my face once in a while, read the
occasional speech from the throne, and perhaps engage in a scandal on
occasion to help sell papers and keep reporters employed.  I'd just spend
my days at government house, puttering in the garden, living off a hefty
government paycheck, chatting with the mounties, and throwing a few parties
for foreign dignitaries where I get to dress is nice gray flannel suits
and sample tasty delicasies that most Canadians have never even heard of.

People on the net would be free to hate me or worship the ground I walk on,
I don't mind.  You may even name bands of trained killers after me in hopes
that the symbolism will make them kill better.

If I'm lucky, I could even get the autographs of people in the country who
actually make a difference.


-- 
------- Stephen M. Webb -------

Ack!  I've accidentally broken my leg!  -- Ed the Happy Clown

Newsgroups: can.politics,soc.culture.canada
From: dat@thinkage.on.ca (David Adrien Tanguay)
Subject: Re: Getty has made Central Canada stronger
Organization: Thinkage, Ltd.
Distribution: can
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 17:13:17 GMT

heath@mprgate.mpr.ca (Gordon Heath) writes:
>My feelings are that I like the general principles and mechanics behind
>these proposals. They accomodate concepts like "equality of provinces"
>and representation of regional "group" interests while making a clear
>indication that "equality of persons" as manifested through "representation
>by population" is clearly centred as the primary focus of democratic
>representation.

Fixing Quebec at a minimum of 25% is a major leap away from rep. by pop.

>I personally think if you back up a few steps and look at the proposals,
>that they represent a centre road through the many conflicting views
>held by Canadians. I think it is a fair and broad accomodation of these
>world views. There are many who will be unhappy, but I don't think
>that many have any reason to say "They got what they wanted, and we were
>ignored".

I don't see the abandonment of one of the major principles of democracy
as being "fair". I think you've got some federal smoke in your eyes...
-- 
David Tanguay       dat@Thinkage.on.ca  dat@Thinkage.com  uunet!thinkage!dat
Thinkage, Ltd.           Kitchener, Ontario, Canada          [43.40N 80.47W]
From: steven@spxtech.qc.ca (Steven C. Potter)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: "F/E" versus "Bienvenue/Welcome": Update
Date: 13 Aug 92 03:19:21 GMT
Organization: Securiplex Technologies Inc., Montreal, Canada
X-Bytes: 1610

From article <2A7F43B6.67A4@telly.on.ca>, by evan@telly.on.ca
 Evan Leibovitch writes:-

> In article <1992Aug3.120211.1923@spxtech.qc.ca>
> 	steven@spxtech.qc.ca (Steven C. Potter) writes:
> 
>>   Update: Reaction Quebec's welcome signs
> 
>>   Just a note to make you aware of the status of our
>> "Bienvenue/Welcome" signs.
> 
>>   The Chairperson of the Commission de Protection de la
>> Langue Francaise, Ludmilla de Fougerolles, has ruled that
>> these signs are non-commercial messages and therefore will be
>> considered legal by the commission.
> 
> This is a very welcome and positive step. I see it as a sign that common
> sense is prevailing, that at least if people see the need for the
> langauage laws, they can tell the difference between a good-natured
> passive protest and the "anglo bullying" the laws were meant to
> eliminate.
> 
> Is anyone ready for the next logical step?
>
> [etcetera]

  New Update: Quebec Gov.'s "Welcome" message to tourists is in
  no less than 9 languages!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  Harry Schick (Viennese pastry shop in Pt. Claire) is being
  prosecuted for having multilingual "Welcome" on his windows.

  Apparently, so long as the "principle" message is in French
  only, you can put whatever you like!   


  Anyone care to try to explain this stupid law now?

-- 
  ///==================================================================\\\
  ||| Steve Potter:         steven%spxtech@CAM.ORG                     |||
  ||| Expertise/Experience: Computer Systems Engineering / Real Ale /  |||
  |||                       Politics in Education in Quebec            |||
From: beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca (Denis Beauregard)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: Radio stations in Quebec, Western Canada
Date: 15 Aug 92 15:33:10 GMT
Organization: Institut de recherche d'Hydro-Quebec, Varennes, Canada

In article <charlesv.713802620@aupair.cs.athabascau.ca> charlesv@aupair.cs.athabascau.ca (Charles Van Duren) writes:
>beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca (Denis Beauregard) writes:
>
>>[2] What are these Quebec and Ontario RADIO networks?  Except Radio-Quebec
>>(despite the name, it is a TV network) and TV Ontario (2 networks),
>>I don't know any provincially funded RADIO network!
>
>Alberta'a ACCESS radio network - 580 AM throughout the province, and some
>12 local FM transmitters.
>
>A dynamite radio service, by the way!
>
>CvD

Sorry I was not clear.  I meant in Quebec!  I knew about an educational
TV network in Alberta (from CKUA-TV?)  But, in the context, it was
talked about a Quebec (and an Ontarian?) radio network.

-- 
  \_\    Denis Beauregard  *  internet:beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca
 /   \   Genealogiste officiel : Beauregard/Jarret/Jarest/Vincent
J   __>  Barthelemy Jarret (1471) -> Andre Jarret, sieur de Beauregard (1665)
\_.-===   -> Denis Beauregard (1992)                  Opinions ? Et pis non !
Newsgroups: can.politics,soc.culture.canada
From: pkern@rodent.utcs.utoronto.ca (pkern)
Subject: Re: We are all foreigners [ ... ]
Organization: UTCS
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 14:48:49 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.142712.13138@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca> golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy) writes:
>In article <wL7qPB2w165w@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca> yadallee@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Dave Shariff Yadallee) writes:
>>Peter Gogolek refers to the head of state of this country as "foreign".
>>I would likle to ask and for net Canadians to consider the following:
>>  Aren't you from a foreign ancestory?
>>This is something the USers fail to see.  North America was inhabited by
>>Aboriginals before the arrival of the Europeans!!
>>Let's admit it,  we are ALL foreigners here, except the Aboriginals.
>
>Wrong...everyone is a foreigner...the best theories suggest homo
>sapiens originated in Africa... [ ... ]


Hmmm, a new meaning for "African American" ... ?
Newsgroups: can.politics
From: evan@telly.on.ca (Evan Leibovitch)
Subject: Re: The tentative agreement of August 19th
Organization: Somewhere just far enough out of Toronto
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 03:46:32 GMT

In article <BtAsvz.IAy@ireq.hydro.qc.ca>
	beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca (Denis Beauregard) writes:

>Je ne comprend pas que l'on qualifie Bourassa de genie avec l'accord
>propose le 19 aout.  Mes impressions :
[...]
>C'est un marche de dupe.

Well, CHQ posters elsewhere in this group are calling it "madness"
because it gives too much to Quebec. Denis thinks it's bad because it
didn't give Quebec what it really wanted.

Maybe we've got something here after all ... an agreement that pisses
both sides off equally :-P

>Dans un entrevue a Radio-Canada hier, un prof d'Universite d'Ottawa
>(un franco d'apres son accent) decrivait aussi cet accord comme pas
>vraiment tres favorable au Quebec.

This means nothing. No matter how stupid a theory one can come up with,
if you look hard enough you'll find someone in academe willing to agree.
This is not to say that this particular prof is right or wrong, but a
university faculty member backing up a theory is hardly a ringing
endorsement.

<Mildly relevant sidebar follows>

News media are very good at exploiting academic this way. Most decent
papers and broadcast news organizations have their list of pro-labour,
anti-socialist, pro-Quebec, anti-aboriginal and every other pro- and
anti- type of academic willing to parade in front of a camera or be
quoted in print. Just to maintain a profile as an expert in the field.

It's actually quite a vicious circle which benefits both the media and
the publicity-hungry academics. Very often an academic is considered an
"expert" in a field because (s)he is interviewed so often -- which leads
to more credibility, which means more interviews, etc...

Usually, the reasons for the interview(s) may have more to do with the
professor's well-known (to the media) biases (which will enforce an
attitude the media wishes to convey) rather than the depth of research
that led to these biases.

-- 
 Evan Leibovitch, Sound Software Ltd., located in beautiful Brampton, Ontario
         evan@telly.on.ca / uunet!utzoo!telly!evan / (416) 452-0504
    Was "Trouble" (from the Broadway Show, Music Man) the first rap song?
Xref: sparky can.politics:6026 soc.culture.canada:5883
From: yadallee@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Dave Shariff Yadallee)
Newsgroups: can.politics,soc.culture.canada
Subject: We are all foreigners, save the NATIVE Aboriginal Canadians!!
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 06:16:19 MDT
Organization: Edmonton Remote Systems #1, Edmonton, AB, Canada

Peter Gogolek refers to the head of state of this country as "foreign".

I would likle to ask and for net Canadians to consider the following:

  Aren't you from a foreign ancestory?

This is something the USers fail to see.  North America was inhabited by
Aboriginals before the arrival of the Europeans!!

Let's admit it,  we are ALL foreigners here, except the Aboriginals.

Dave Shariff Yadallee
yadallee@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca, userLIBE@mts.ucs.ualberta.ca
God Save the Queen, God Bless us All!
cowboy (n): A 20th Century extension of  the neanderthal caveman.
Xref: sparky can.politics:6104 soc.culture.canada:5970
From: beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca (Denis Beauregard)
Newsgroups: can.politics,soc.culture.canada
Subject: Re: Absolute Madness... Naturally.
Date: 21 Aug 92 14:35:37 GMT
Organization: Institut de recherche d'Hydro-Quebec, Varennes, Canada

In article <jstewart.714332851@cunews> jstewart@alfred.carleton.ca (John Stewart) writes:
>It's a good deal for Quebec because they would be guaranteed of retaining
>25% of the seats in the House of Commons even though Quebec's share of 
>Canada's population will most likely continue to decline in the future.
>
>Under the new rules for the senate, the loss of senate seats is almost
>irrelevant because the only power the senate would have to overturn 
>legislation is to force a joint session of the Senate and Commons.  In a
>joint session, Quebec's 25% share of the House of Commons would ensure a
>strong voice for Quebec.
>
>To say that the proposed senate is EEE is stretching the truth.  EEE 
>supporters have made a major concession in supporting the new proposals.
>-- 
>John Stewart -- Computing and Communications Services, Carleton University
>Internet: jstewart@ccs.carleton.ca or Mr.Canoehead@algonquin.carleton.ca  
>"Why can't we just forget about our constitutional problems and go canoeing?"

I think this is highly debatable.  
1- Actual content of what remains from Meech is still untold.
2- Changes in a 1992 point of view are tiny.  Who said if Quebec population
will not increase in the future?  Today's trend is recent (about 20-30 years)
and accompany a change in society (like emptied churches), but the trend
may change, in which case the 25% minimum will be irrelevant.
3- Do you know about the Canadian parliement working?  Do you ever heard
about a party, about party's politics?  In that case, voice of Quebec is
not that strong.  It is one on four, about the population today.
Moreover, if Bloc Quebecois remains strong, part of Quebec in Majority
will be small enough.  But, I recognize BQ could deal with the majority
in a 5-party system.
4- What happens if 6 provinces decide to nominate a francophone senator
and to present a bill against having a unilingual status in a province?
A cultural bill decided by a majority of francos (6 out of Quebec against
5 in Quebec) :-(  [I say 5 in Quebec since Quebec will propably have
a anglo or allophone senator].

-- 
  \_\    Denis Beauregard  *  internet:beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca
 /   \   Genealogiste officiel : Beauregard/Jarret/Jarest/Vincent
J   __>  Barthelemy Jarret (1471) -> Andre Jarret, sieur de Beauregard (1665)
\_.-===   -> Denis Beauregard (1992)                  Opinions ? Et pis non !
From: steven@spxtech.qc.ca (Steve Potter)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: "F/E" versus "Bienvenue/Welcome": Update
Date: 18 Aug 92 12:33:56 GMT
Organization: Securiplex Technologies Inc., Montreal, Canada
X-Bytes: 2094

From article <17AUG92.12944032.0081@VM1.MCGILL.CA>, by CZ94@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA (CZ94):
> In article <Bt4uzH.6z1@ireq.hydro.qc.ca> beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca (Denis Beauregard) writes:
>>In article <1992Aug16.124308.7895@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu> ematias@dgp.toronto.edu (Edgar Matias) writes:
>>>
>>>This is *very* interesting.  So, if I understand correctly, it would be
>>>*legal* to have a sign that said (in French) in BIG letters "F*CK THE
>>>LANGUAGE LAWS" with the word "welcome" (in many languages) written in _small_
>>>letters underneath?
>>>
> Why bother with the multilingual "welcome"?  If your main intention
> is to say "F*ck the language laws," then it's certainly legal to
> do so, if it's in French only.  Adding "Bienvenue/welcome" won't
> make it any more legal.
> 
> In fact, since the content of the message is political, rather than
> commercial, it may be legal to use other languages on your sign.
> I'm not sure of this, though.
> 

  You are right.

  "F*CK THE LANGUAGE LAWS" or "STUFF THE LANGUAGE LAWS" (with or without
  multilingual subsidiary messages or notes) is a political or ideological
  message. Such signs are exempted - and can be posted in any language.
 (To the best of my understanding. I think I will try to track down a
  copy of the relavant regulations for posting)

>>This would not be legal.  The small letters message shall be the same.
>>Moreover, maybe there is something againt hate signs.
>>
> There is a federal law against inciting hatred of an identifiable
> group of people (I don't know all the details).  However, we
> should not confuse hating a law with hating people.  One can dislike
> certain aspects of Bill 101 without hating the Quebecois people.
> 

  Is there a law making it illegal to curse a sacred cow in Quebec? :-)

-- 
  ///==================================================================\\\
  ||| Steve Potter:         steven%spxtech@CAM.ORG                     |||
  ||| Expertise/Experience: Computer Systems Engineering / Real Ale /  |||
  |||                       Politics in Education in Quebec            |||
Newsgroups: can.politics,soc.culture.canada