HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pjh@eng.cam.ac.uk (Philippa Hogben)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: question
Date: 10 Nov 92 11:51:44 GMT
Reply-To: pjh@eng.cam.ac.uk
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.

In article 92Nov9113143@d38.sfc.keio.ac.jp, s91001ra@sfc.keio.ac.jp (Rie Aizawa) writes:
>To netters,
> 
>I had to choose *one* wrong sentence from these: 1 The night began to break.
>                                                 2 Morning began to break.
>                                                 3 The day began to dawn.
>                                                 4 It began to dawn.
>
>I don't know which one to choose, and why.  Please explain, anyone?

I would say the first is wrong. Day breaks, or morning breaks but night _falls_.

>
>Also choose *one* wrong sentence from these: 1 It doesn't concern me.
>                                             2 I don't concern it.
>                                             3 It has nothing to do with me.
>                                             4 I'm not concerned with it.

I would say 2 in wrong. If "it" is an inanimate object (which is the implication
since "it" was used rather than (for example) "he") then it doesn't have the 
capability to be concerned by anything so you cannot concern it.

>
>And the same from these: 1 This book is easy to be read.
>                         2 This book is easy to read

The second is correct. I think this is something to do with the fact that in
(1) the verb is in the passive voice and the construction requires it to be in
the active voice (as in (2)). Has anybody else got a better explanation?

>
>If you have enough time for these, please e-mail to me!
>Thank you very much! :)

Oops, I've only just noticed this bit. I hope this information still reaches
you (and is useful.

Philippa.

---
Philippa Hogben   pjh@eng.cam.ac.uk  (Reverse if mailing from Janet)
Any mistakes are mine, all mnie.

I am not a .sig virus. I am a free bug.
From: dgreen@thor (David Greenebaum)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: acronyms and full stops
Date: 11 Nov 1992 22:20:21 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.berkeley.edu

Marc Read replies to Eric Tholome:
>>
>>I was wondering: when I use an acronym as the last word of a sentence, do I need
>>to add a full stop? [...]
>
>I was always taught that abbreviations which are all in capital letters 
>(and _all_ acronyms, i.e. pronouncable abbreviations) have _no_ periods (fill
>stops) in htem. [Excuse typos please]
[...]
>>Side question: whatever rule is to be applied in English, is it applied also in
>>other languages such as French, German, etc.?
>
>Your guess is as good as mine on this one.
>
It gets weird...In Swedish, for example, two common practices with
abbreviations are a colon, and _no_ punctuation at all. Since Swedish
is partially inflected [though only very little] you'll sometimes
get a colon'd abbreviation with a suffix after the colon, such as
"no:t".  And the no-punctuation abbreviations are usually not
capitalized, either: "osv" and "t ex" are both common for "och saa
vidare" (and so on) and "till exempel" (for example).

(Here's where I get flamed for not realizing that this is
alt.ENGLISH.usage....)

--------------------- 
 |\  | |\  |\  |// |  
 | > | |\\ | \ |/  |   David Greenebaum/University of California/Berkeley, CA
 |<  | | \ |   |   |   dgreen@athena.berkeley.edu, dgreen@garnet.berkeley.edu
 | > | |   |   |   |
 |/  | |   |   |   |   "I make mistakes, but I am on the side of good -- by
---------------------  accident and happenchance." -- the Golux
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: norlin@fury.ecn.uoknor.edu (Norman Lin)
Subject: Re: "The point is, is that..." (two "is") phenomenon
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 16:58:10 GMT
Organization: Engineering Computer Network, University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK, USA

miner@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:

>Everywhere now you hear two "is" in constructions like:

>	The point is, is that...

Well, this is the first I've heard of it.

I'll have to start using it now.  :-)

Norman
norlin@mailhost.ecn.uoknor.edu
From: liza@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Liza Miller)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Various things
Date: 9 Nov 1992 20:50:56 GMT
Organization: Stanford Univ. Earth Sciences
NNTP-Posting-Host: pangea.stanford.edu

In article <1992Nov9.200925.29553@news.eng.convex.com> tchrist@convex.COM (Tom Christiansen) writes:
>From the keyboard of gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener):
>:b) What areas of the U.S. still call carbonated beverages "pop" and
>:not "soda" ?
>
>I always wondered why some areas still call them "soda" instead of "pop".
>
	Soda is common in California.  Pop was common when I lived in
Texas.  I have heard people also use softdrink or soda pop.  Oh yea, my
friend from Oklahoma says pop.

==lizalee


--
Liza Lee Miller         My dogs are labradorable!     liza@pangea.stanford.edu
Cibola Labradors            Field * Show * Fun                    415/326-5309
Cibola's Misty Mountain Hop--Hopper                   Mistypoint Kashmir--Kash
	            Campbellcroft Cibola Rosette -- Rosie
From: thayes@desire.wright.edu
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Derivation of "wonk"
Date: 11 Nov 92 19:07:47 EST
Organization:  Wright State University 

DAZ> National Public Radio had a piece on Nov. 10 in which the editor of the
> Oxford American Dictionary discussed "wonk."  He said his earliest citation
> was from Sports Illustrated in 1962.  (He also mentioned the backwards "know"
> theory and seemed to think it was spurious.)


So did he say how *Sports Illustrated* used the term or where they got it from? 

-----ted hayes
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: lange@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com (Alex Lange)
Subject: Peeve: "The reason is because..."
Summary: Don't write "the reason is beacuse..."
Reply-To: lange@lmsc.lockheed.com
Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space, Sunnyvale CA USA
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 15:14:28 GMT

One commonly used construct (in the US, at least) that bothers me
is "The reason is because...", as in:

   Q: Why do the alt.usage.english readers flame so readily?
   A: The reason is because so many of the topics have been
          discussed already.

"The reason is because" seems to be the practice among those
who can't get away from the (simple noun subject)+(copula)+(simple
noun object) pattern of sentences.

The reason "the reason is because" annoys me is that "proper" usage
would dictate that the construct should be "the reason is that".

Do others find this construct annoying?  Do others (outside the US)
find this construct at all?  Is it merely another "ugly Americanism"?
Or is it (gasp!) an indication of world-wide faulty logic?

Yours siglessly,
Alex Lange
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid)
Subject: Re: scrabble boredom
Organization: Eris's Restaurant
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 15:35:41 GMT

In article <1992Nov5.073532.27523@news.eng.convex.com> tchrist@convex.COM (Tom Christiansen) writes:
>Looking at a scrabble board you see funny things... like 
>the fact that "debugger" and "begrudge" are but rearrangements
>of each other.
>
>Trivia question: which set of letters has FIVE distinct words
>associated with it?  Can any find MORE than one of these?
>I have 16 FOURS, and but one FIVE?

[AEMST], which generates MATES, MEATS, STEAM, TAMES, and TEAMS.

				Kay
-- 
6'2", dark short hair, blue eyes, bisexual and horny as ....
Kay Dekker, Dept of Industrial Design, Coventry University, Coventry UK
37 Old Winnings Road, Keresley Village, Coventry   |B0 f t+ g++ k++! s+ e r p!
Phone: +44 203 838668 (work) +44 203 337865 (home) |Deflowerer-of-innocents
From: hermit@cats.UCSC.EDU (William R. Ward)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Various things
Date: 9 Nov 92 04:29:06
Organization: Computing and Telecommunications Services, UCSC
NNTP-Posting-Host: am.ucsc.edu
In-reply-to: gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu's message of Sun, 8 Nov 1992 04:26:46 GMT

In article <1992Nov8.042646.10166@news.columbia.edu>, gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener) writes:
) a) The other day, I was talking about a technical design with someone,
) and they referred to the pending patent on the device.  However, his
) pronunciation of "patent" rhymed with "latent."  I've never heard the
) word "patent" pronounced any way other than with the first syllable
) pronounced like the name "pat."  Has anyone else encountered "patent"
) prounounced with the long a?

That's truly bizarre; I've never heard that pronunciation...

) b) What areas of the U.S. still call carbonated beverages "pop" and
) not "soda" ?

What else would you call it?  It's a little archaic but not by any
means out of common usage.  "Soda pop" isn't too unusual.  More
commonly, one refers to the specific beverage, like Coke or Pepsi or
7-Up or whatever.  And while businesses that sell them call them "soft
drinks," I've never heard that used in common usage.

) c) I was reading a 1720 mathematics textbook the other day, and I
) noticed the voluminous use of the typographical mark "&c." instead of
) "etc."  Now, the ampersand obviously comes from a calligraphic "et,"
) so how did we move backwards from &c in printing to etc?  You rarely
) see &c in typographic form.

I use it fairly often.  It's one fewer character, and it is somewhat
"exotic" and grabs people's attention.
--
William R Ward                         __o   Bay View Software
VoiceMail: +1 (408) 479-4072         _ \<,_  Internet:  hermit@cats.ucsc.edu
SnailMail: 1803 Mission St. #339    (_)/ (_) BITNet:    hermit@cats.bitnet
           Santa Cruz CA 95060 USA
From: baron@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Dennis Baron)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: a good dictionary
Date: 6 Nov 92 16:00:10 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois

You know that English is a zoological language because the sign at the
entrance to the lexicon says "Please do not feed the words."

Dennis


debaron@uiuc.edu               (\                   217-333-2392
                               \'\             fax: 217-333-4321
Dennis Baron                    \'\           __________
Department of English           / '|         ()_________)
Univ. of Illinois               \ '/          \ ~~~~~~~~ \
608 S. Wright St.                 \             \ ~~~~~~   \
Urbana IL 61801                   ==).            \__________\
                                 (__)             ()__________)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: nigel@kathunk.phaedrav.on.ca (Nigel M Burnett)
Subject: Re: mnemonics in general
Organization: as little as possible
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 16:50:55 GMT

108116 (108116@adpdp2.lanl.gov) wrote:
: Ok guys!  What mnemonics do you all know?  The more unusual the better, I'll
: start you off:

Batman blows Robin over yonder Gotham Bridge - very gooey w?????? (darn)
							  ^^^^^^ i forget


black brown red orange yellow green blue violet grey white (I think)
 - resistor colour code - please don't flame me if I'm wrong)
-- 
"If somebody feels really good about who they are, they don't feel                  threatened by what other people are."        Dr. M. Rubenstein
"Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced."             Alan Braggins
Nigel Burnett: 78 Normandy Blvd, Toronto, Ontario, Canada, M4L 3K3, 416-690-1834
Send e-mail to nigel@kathunk.phaedrav.on.ca or try uunet.ca!kink!kathunk!nigel
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: eepjm@wombat.newcastle.edu.au (Peter Moylan)
Subject: Re: What is wrong with "rule of thumb" ?
Organization: University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 00:15:25 GMT

In article <1992Nov9.203236.10357@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com>, lange@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com (Alex Lange) writes:
> casseres@apple.com (David Casseres) writes:
> : In article <1992Nov2.160251.29355@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com>,
> : lange@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com (Alex Lange) wrote:
> : > I would strike "rule of thumb" not out of any hypersensitivity to
> : > women's issues, but simply because the phrase is hackneyed, worn-out,
> : > overused, dull, cliche, and so on.
> : 
> : Then what would you use in its place?
> 
> Simply "rule."  But I do confess some offhandedness; the context
> might have suggested even better substitutes for "rule of thumb."

There's a difference in meaning.  A rule suggests something formal.
The phrase "rule of thumb" carries connotations like "This is not
quite as accurate as a formal analysis, but it's a quick way to get
an approximate answer".  None of the substitutes I can think of
carry this (useful) shade of meaning.

The wife-beating story is irrelevant.  Today we use that phrase
as if it referred to making rough measurements with our thumbs instead
of using a graduated ruler.  (And I rather suspect that that
interpretation predates the use of a rule of thumb to limit the
size of an instrument of torture.)

-- 
Peter Moylan                      eepjm@wombat.newcastle.edu.au
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english,sci.lang
From: alderson@elaine46.Stanford.EDU (Rich Alderson)
Subject: Re: Latin forms in English
Followup-To: alt.usage.english
Originator: alderson@leland.Stanford.EDU
Reply-To: alderson@elaine46.Stanford.EDU (Rich Alderson)
Organization: Stanford University Academic Information Resources
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 92 21:58:33 GMT

In article <92309.142726GRV101@psuvm.psu.edu>, Callec Dradja <GRV101@psuvm writes:
>     I have just begun a study on how words with Latin origins behave
>in English. In particular, I am looking at the words: Data, Phenomena,
>and media. As you probably know, all of these words are prescriptively
>plural however, they are treated either as singular or as mass nouns in
>normal speech. In other words, most people say "The data IS good" instead
>of "The data ARE good." People also say, "the media IS biased" instead of
>"The media ARE biased" There are two things that hopefully some of you
>can help me with:
>
>1.  The words that I want to study are commonly used neuter Latin words
>    such as :data, media, phenomina, stadia, etc. I had thought originally
>    that phenomina would be good but unfortunately even though it is indeed
>    Latin, it goes back even further as a Greek word as demonstrated in the
>    way that it begins with 'ph.' Could you help me find a commonly used
>    Latin word with a plural form that ends in 'a'? (i.e. it is a neuter
>    noun)

"phenomenon/a" is not Latin, it is Greek.  Period.  The -meno- formant is the
marker of a present middle participle in Greek, and does not occur in Latin.
The -(o)n ending of the singular nominative/accusative is Greek, where Latin
would show -um.  You rightly suspected the origin to be Greek when you noted
the occurrence of "ph," but you seem nevertheless to think that the word is
Latin.

What is it that you are asking for, exactly?  That we track down Latin neuter
plurals in use in English?  You would be better served by doing the search
yourself, since the best thing about doing research is the *other* interesting
data and ideas you encounter.

If there is some other point to our doing this exercise for you, please make it
clear.

>2.  Could you also help me with my review of the literature? I am looking
>    for books, articles, or research papers that deal in any way with this
>    subject.

Your university library should have paid reference librarians who can help you
track down the meta-references you need to find this stuff for yourself.
-- 
Rich Alderson   'I wish life was not so short,' he thought.  'Languages take
                such a time, and so do all the things one wants to know about.'
                                                        --J. R. R. Tolkien,
alderson@leland.stanford.edu                              _The Lost Road_
From: windsor@hera.Berkeley.EDU (Katherine Windsor)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Vowels in words (and syllables)
Date: 5 Nov 1992 20:41:37 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: all
NNTP-Posting-Host: hera.berkeley.edu
Keywords: Rythm

In article <1d9oriINNam5@gap.caltech.edu> dian@arpeggio.gg.caltech.edu (Dian  De Sha) writes:
>In <1992Nov2.205440.23865@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu> mmmirash@midway.ecn.uoknor.edu (Mandar M. Mirashi) writes:

Lots of stuff deleted
>
>In fact, on second thought, I suppose the requirement really is 
>that every syllable must have a vowel.  Hmmm... Off hand, I 
>cannot think of a vowel-less syllable.  Can anyone else? (without
>simply grepping an online dictionary!)
>
>____
>Dian

I think immediately of "rythm,"  which must be articulated
as two syllables.  The "thm" sound must be pronounced as a 
separate syllable.  Any takers?
	-katherine

Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: dconway@cs1.uct.ac.za (D CONWAY)
Subject: Bonniful glips &c.
Summary: *ful as noun?
Organization: Computer Science Department, University of Cape Town
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 15:10:12 GMT

At gradeschool we were taught that one could recognise the class of a word 
(noun, verb etc) by the position it occupied in a sentence and its ending.  
The classic example of this was the sentence

	The bonniful glip grixes mugly.

The made up words "bonniful", "glip" etc. supposedly belong in the 
following classes:
bonniful = adjective {ending in "ful" and before the noun, "glip"}
glip     = noun      {following "ful" and before the verb, "grixes"}
grixes   = verb      {ends in "es" (or just "s") and followed by an 
		      alleged adverb}
mugly    =  adverb   {follows a verb and ends in "ly"}

Such that the ideal choice of words to substitute in the sentence is

	The awful boy drives recklessly.

Point of the post is that, in trying to disprove the theory that position/
ending predicted the word class, I came up with

	The powerful find buses silly.

Only criticism is that "powerful" is an adjectival noun, so - could you find 
a *noun* which ends in "ful", or even a whole new sentence which preferably 
doesn't have any word classes in the predicted order?

(E-mail, I think)
Thanks, Deane (dconway@cs1.uct.ac.za)
From: paul.burnett@pcs.sj.ca.us (Paul Burnett) 
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: "that throws light on the bank"
Date: 6 Nov 92 15:44:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: PCS-BBS - San Jose, CA - 408-270-4085
Reply-To: paul.burnett@pcs.sj.ca.us (Paul Burnett) 

TO: mcwg9235@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Marsha Woodbury )


  >the respondent says, "that throws light on the bank"

MW>OK, is that an expression about throwing light on a
  >problem?  Or is it about bank buildings?  A foreign
  >student asked me to explain, and I wasn't sure.
  >--
  >University of Illinois, Middle of Nowhere

Tsk - and you're from riverboat country (well, maybe a few cornfields
away....)  <G>

That's a _river_ bank - from the Mark Twain era, piloting riverboats and
all that - they mean "that illuminates the subject".  IMHO.

---
 . QMPro 1.0 07-2042 . ...from San Jose, CA
From: "eliot gelwan" <eliot.gelwan@channel1.com>
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: what is wrong with "r
Date: 7 Nov 92 01:42:36 EST
Reply-To: "eliot gelwan" <eliot.gelwan@channel1.com>
Distribution: alt
Organization: Channel 1 Communications

On 11-06-92 BENJAMIN D. LUKOFF  wrote:

BDL> I'd call that sexist. . .
BDLBut the use of the phrase 'rule of thumb' does not foster discrimination
BDLagainst women. No-one (almost no-one) remembers the origin. I have the
BDLsame problem with this as I have with all politically correct speech,
BDLit's not the phrase the matters, it is the actions of the person who
BDLuses it.

OK then, let's call a spade a spade.

                   |
...eliot          -*-              Postlink: ->CHANNEL1 [R/O okay]
                   |               Internet: eliot.gelwan@channel1.com

---
EZ 1.39 #178 [in Brookline MA 12:52 am, Saturday 11/07/92]
--
Channel 1 (R)   Cambridge, MA
From: miner@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: "The point is, is that..." (two "is") phenomenon
Date: 12 Nov 92 06:40:10 CST
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

Everywhere now you hear two "is" in constructions like:

	The point is, is that...

This seems to be spreading like wildfire; wonder how it got started?

-- 
-Ken <miner@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> {Sometimes you have to look reality straight
 OPINIONS ARE MY OWN            {in the eye, and deny it. - G. Keillor
From: bl2m+@andrew.cmu.edu (Benjamin D. Lukoff)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: what is wrong with "r
Date: 7 Nov 92 18:33:33 GMT
Distribution: alt
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Excerpts from netnews.alt.usage.english: 7-Nov-92 what is wrong with "r
by "eliot gelwan"@channel1. 
>  
> On 11-06-92 BENJAMIN D. LUKOFF  wrote:
>  
> BDL/> I'd call that sexist. . .
> BDL/But the use of the phrase 'rule of thumb' does not foster discrimination
> BDL/against women. No-one (almost no-one) remembers the origin. I have the
> BDL/same problem with this as I have with all politically correct speech,
> BDL/it's not the phrase the matters, it is the actions of the person who
> BDL/uses it.
>  
> OK then, let's call a spade a spade.

Yes, let's, if we're referring to the shovel-like garden tool.
---------------
bl2m+@andrew.cmu.edu, lukoff@cmu.edu
Carnegie Mellon University Music Pre-College 1992
The program is over, but the account lives on........
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: asimov@wk223.nas.nasa.gov (Daniel A. Asimov)
Subject: Re: vowelless syllables
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, California
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 92 00:48:17 GMT
Distribution: usa

In article <vy_q_--@SantaFe.edu> meyer@sfi.santafe.edu (Thomas P. Meyer) writes:
>How about cwm and crwth of Welsh origin?  Also any word
>that ends in -ism.  `Rhythm' also comes to mind.  Any
>others?

Well, there's "dirndl."  Not to mention rhythmesque words like
"stathm" (this is a term from abstract algebra).  Similar to the 
"-ism" words, there are "paroxysm" and "chasm," "orgasm," etc.

--Daz

P.S.
Actually words like "bundle," "ankle," etc., have vowelless syllables,
at least spiritually (unless you posit that the final "e" is the
schwa sound, better late than never).

I don't know if I would consider "cwm" and "crwth" as vowelless;
seems to me that "w" is acting as a vowel in these words.

Newsgroups: alt.usage.english,sci.lang
From: eepjm@wombat.newcastle.edu.au (Peter Moylan)
Subject: Re: Latin forms in English
Organization: University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 00:15:42 GMT

In article <92309.142726GRV101@psuvm.psu.edu>, Callec Dradja <GRV101@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
> 
>      I have just begun a study on how words with Latin origins behave
> in English. In particular, I am looking at the words: Data, Phenomena,
> and media. As you probably know, all of these words are prescriptively
> plural however, they are treated either as singular or as mass nouns in
> normal speech. In other words, most people say "The data IS good" instead
> of "The data ARE good." People also say, "the media IS biased" instead of
> "The media ARE biased" There are two things that hopefully some of you
> can help me with:

There are two simple rules:

1. Half the people in alt.usage.english will insist on "the data is ...",
   the other half will insist on "the data are ...", and - if history is
   any guide - an almighty battle will result.

2. Those who refrain from the data/media debate will become upset over
   your use of "hopefully".  That's good for another hundred postings.

(Just joking.)

-- 
Peter Moylan                      eepjm@wombat.newcastle.edu.au
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english