HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: yongwee@leland.Stanford.EDU (Yong Wee Dennis Lee)
Subject: Bashings of Chinese Averts (was Re: OTHMAN BIN AHMAD)
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 16:34:12 GMT

I think we should stop bashing Othman Ahmad.  The many, and I stress again, 
MANY,postings have more than revealed his flawed logic and his skewed thinking.
However, I think we forget that it is through outspoken people like
Othman Ahmad that we get an idea of how Chinese, or non-Muslims are percieved
by the world.  If we keep bashing him, we run the risk of learning from such
an interesting guy!

I am sure that the views presented by Othman are not unique, in fact, I think
they are quite widespread.  Malays' mistrust of Chinese, Muslim's distaste
for non-Muslims, are facts of life, even if we, the Chinese and the non-Muslims
think they are unreasonable.

Maybe we should let this cool down a bit; I think Othman made his many mistakes
in his desperation to defend himself.  Personally, I would not like to scare
him away from future postings as I feel we can all learn alot from his very
interesting and outspoken nature.

In article <1992Jul28.061414.13922@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg> eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Othman Ahmad) writes:
>
>How should I say it?" The editors or journalists of NS have left out a very
>important possibble evidence which may jourpadise the truth or credibility
>of the news being reported. Since Singapore is 75% chinese, the government is
			     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>controlled by chinese, the media is controlled by the government, we may
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>expect this downplaying of important evidence to be very significant".

Mr Othman, your logic is that Chinese is the majority in S'pore, and the govern
ment is Chinese, and the media is controlled by the government, so the media
is controlled by Chinese.  I think that is quite far-fetched.  I think in
S'pore, minority representation in the government is favorable to them
proportionally, that is, minorities like Indians are better represented than
the Chinese, proportionally.  Furthermore, to imply that the media is unfair
to the Malays is not very right.  I think the media is very careful about
Malay sentiments, especially about S'pore-Malaysian relationship.  If anything,
I believe that the 'controlled' press will be more than sympathetic to the
Malaysian prince.


Dennis Lee Yong Wee
Stanford University
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: vickeong@student.business.uwo.ca (Victor Jiun-Wen Keong)
Subject: Re: Hwa Chong's not that bad!
Organization: University of Western Ontario
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 02:10:13 GMT

> 
> To begin with, I doubt that the number of 4 A students is directly caused
> by the quality of teaching.  I am certain that my friends at ACS who got
> 8 or 9 A1s at the O Levels would have done so regardless of the quality
> of teaching (wasn't that hot at ACS either).  And no matter which JC
> they chose to go to, they would have excelled - as it turned out, 
> many of them came to HCJC where they repeated their earlier academic 
> success.
> 
> In any case, formal academic excellence does not imply educational
> excellence.  Education is about teaching an approach, an attitude.
> Test-taking should only be one part of the experience.  The trouble 
> with the educational system in Singapore is that that one aspect
> has become way too predominant.  Even when students get to the 
> University level, they seem more concerned with what will be
> on the exam than with learning basic concepts. (Irks the hell
> out of the Professors - as least some of them).
> 
> 
> 
> E. Yap
> 

I never implied in any of my remarks that High #s of As = quality 
teaching. The fact that students continue to excel in HCJC when they 
bring with them excellent O's; i thought, could be attributed to the 
excellent environment that induced them (at HCJC)  that made them aspire 
for greater heights. The crux of it all (the environment that is ) again 
could be due tovarious factors - the kia-suism , the strong school spirit 
and not forgetting the guidance of some really good teachers. HCJC has an 
excellent pool of teachers in the Humanities and Biology - that's as far 
as my own experiences go; and that was what prompted me to make my 
earlier remarks.

vickeong@student.business.uwo.ca (Victor Jiun-Wen Keong)
Western Business School  --  London, Ontario
From: cheu@neptune.its.uci.edu (Kelvin Cheu)
Subject: Re: Hwa Chong's not that bad!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Reply-To: cheu@neptune.its.uci.edu (Kelvin Cheu)
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 21 Jul 92 05:56:28 GMT

In article <l6n0h7INN240@nyquist.usc.edu>, goh@nyquist.usc.edu (K.C.Goh) writes:
|> In article <1992Jul20.234623.18455@leland.Stanford.EDU> akster@leland.Stanford.EDU (Aki Shoji) writes:
|> >
|> >	[Stuff deleted]
|> >
|> >the quality of teaching.  I've gone through schools in Singapore as well
|> >as 2 in the U.S. and can count very few good teachers (mostly at Stanford
|> >Law School).  I thought the worst were those at Hwa Chong JC.
|>                              ^^^^^               ^^^^^^^^^^^^
|> >
|> >E. Yap
|> >
|> 
|> I beg to differ, but perhaps from a different perspective,
|> because I was probably at HCJC earlier.
|> 
|> I was at Hwa Chong J.C. in 83-84 and I feel that the teachers
|> there were excellent, especially the Further Math teachers.
|> Back then, Hwa Chong math department was supposed to be really good.
|> (Particularly, Miss Yap and Mrs Kong, to whom I dedicate this
|> defense of Hwa Chong to!).  And RJC didn't even exist back then.
|> 
|> Also my GP teachers were quite good.
|> Bottom line: 	Hwa Chong has at least one satisfied customer
|> 		out here in Netland.
|> 
|> Regards.
|> 
|> 
|> 
|> 

K.C.,

You are not the only Hwa Chong Alumni around.  I was there in 81-82,
the 1st batch of computer science students. Those good old days when
I was still using Apple II and punch cards...

Kelvin Cheu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: harish@csar.uucp (Harish Pillay)
Subject: Re: Hwa Chong's not that bad!
Organization: CSA Research Pte Ltd, Singapore.
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 01:06:42 GMT

goh@nyquist.usc.edu (K.C.Goh) writes:
>In article <1992Jul20.234623.18455@leland.Stanford.EDU> akster@leland.Stanford.EDU (Aki Shoji) writes:
>>
>>	[Stuff deleted]
>>
>>the quality of teaching.  I've gone through schools in Singapore as well
>>as 2 in the U.S. and can count very few good teachers (mostly at Stanford
>>Law School).  I thought the worst were those at Hwa Chong JC.
>                             ^^^^^               ^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>
>>E. Yap
>>
>
>I beg to differ, but perhaps from a different perspective,
>because I was probably at HCJC earlier.
>
>I was at Hwa Chong J.C. in 83-84 and I feel that the teachers
>there were excellent, especially the Further Math teachers.
>Back then, Hwa Chong math department was supposed to be really good.
>(Particularly, Miss Yap and Mrs Kong, to whom I dedicate this
>defense of Hwa Chong to!).  And RJC didn't even exist back then.
                                 ^^^
Just to pick a nit - it is not that RJC did not exist, it functioned as
part of RI.  [Actually, the time frame you refer to 83-84, I believe RI's
PreU component was functioning separately at the old site of the Institute
of Education in Patterson Road.]

Enjoy.
--
Harish Pillay                      harish%csar@uunet.uu.net
Singapore
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: ytay@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu (AUS:TAY,YIAN)
Subject: Re: Childrens and the rights of their parents.
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Oklahoma - University Computing Services
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 15:00:00 GMT

In article <1992Jul27.140658.7902@news.iastate.edu>, txd07@isuvax.iastate.edu writes...
>	First let me just say that my English is bad, so pleeeeeez, don't
>give any sarcastical comments regarding my English.
> 



Relax, not everyone has the same frame of mind as Othman.  My English
is bad too..



yian..

> 
>Abu Syafiq.
> 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean,soc.culture.australian
From: rswiftrw@cc.curtin.edu.au (Rod Swift)
Subject: Re: OLYMPICS IN MALAYSIA ????clo
Organization: -=[ Curtin University ]=-  Perth, Australia.
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 08:27:40 GMT

In article <1992Jul26.081533.9771@news.ysu.edu>, af620@yfn.ysu.edu (Andrew Tan) writes:

> In a previous article, rswiftrw@cc.curtin.edu.au (Rod Swift) says:

>>In article <ll9mb5k2@csv.warwick.ac.uk>, espca@warwick.ac.uk (Kenny Lee ) writes:

>>> WHEN WILL IT BE FOR MALAYSIA  ?.

>>You have got the Commonwealth Games, so dont expect to be in Olympic contention
>>until 2016...

>>Anyway, you'll probably do a "Montreal" on everyone.

>>Malaysia has a sad Olympic record -- 18 million people and zero medals.
>>It is quite sad, as Malaysia should have one a medal by now!
          				   ^^^
Of course, the line was meant to read...

It is quite sad, as Malaysia should have one, a medal, by now!

I was trying to say that you should have had the fortune to gain a medal rather
than an Olympics by now...  Can you see why I structured the sentence in this
way.

My editor stripped a comma or two!  :v>

Rod
From: SSR48327@VAX1.UTULSA.EDU (Syed Shibli)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: Cold war against ISLAM (Part-1)
Date: 22 Jul 92 21:41:43 GMT
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X-Vmsmail-To: smtp%"soc.culture.asean.usenet@decwrl.dec.com"


gting@fraser.sfu.ca (Gabriel Sii Kuok Ting) writes:

>Before someone misunderstands me, I know that the numeral system as we know 
>them today originated from the Arabs, to name but a few of the Muslim 
>achievements, but what I meant was, it was the Christian missionaries who
>provided the spiritual guidance during the time the western world developed
>into what it is today. I'm not claiming that this was the best, but there's
>no denying that this may be one of the reasons for the so-called western
>bias, as someone likes to call it.

  Ignorance breeds bias. Call it Western ignorance, instead.

-- 
                                              --Syed Shibli
                                                ssr48327@vax1.utulsa.edu
                                                +1 918 631 3257
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: honkeatc@microsoft.com (Hon Keat Chan)
Subject: Re: Best School in Malaysia
Date: 24 Jul 92 20:35:42 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article <1992Jul23.183925.22416@ems.psu.edu> nor@hekla.pnge.psu.edu (Nor-Azlan Nordin) writes:
>In article <l6sj4lINN3kf@nyquist.usc.edu> goh@nyquist.usc.edu (K.C.Goh) writes:
>
>>1)	Clifford College, KK
>>		"Dr Mahatir's School 		- HP"
[stuff deleted]

There was a (rich) school in Singapore, a long time ago (82 or 81) when a 
student in a fit of anger (after pulling a practical joke and then received
a counter joke), smashed a piece of glass.  After the student was asked to 
leave the class room, the Vice-Principal called a class meeting to discus
the incident and find a just punishment.  From the start, expelling the
student was the punishment of choice.  Further evidences to support the
call surfaced.  Then, a student asked two very simple questions:-
1) Who in the class had never commited the very same crimes (other than
   actually smashing school property) that the accused faced (eg, use
   of foul language, "artwork" on desks, etc).
2) If the school was to maintain its reputation of excellence, what would
   expelling the bad do for it?  Afterall, it simply elimated the bad and
   the "good" remained.
3) Isn't it the job of a school (teachers, officers and students) to
   teach everybody the positives?

The student accepted his fault and punishment and graduated with the rest
of the class.  One less delinquent, one great school.

Then there was the chinese high school, nameless in almost any way, located
in the middle of gang teritory in a small town in Malaysia. The Art teacher 
taught fabric printing (batik, etc).  For practice and exams (SPM, etc) the 
students had to buy fabric.  Everytime a poor student messed up and had to 
purchase a new piece,  the Art Teacher bought up the messed up piece, 
assuring the student that he will find something useful to do with it.  
This way, the student could afford to buy another piece to work on.  Also, 
the school opened class rooms in the evenings, with teachers volunteering 
to stay around so gang members would not disturb the peace, so the students 
had a quite place to study.  Classy teachers, one great school.

Still there was the little Convent in one of the poorest areas of a small
town in Malaysia. Often, there was the little girl with no family.  The
teachers pack little packages so these kids could have something for
recess, just like other kids.  If they were good, paying attention in
class and doing their homework and were unselfish in sharing their
knowledge of spelling and math, they got treated to having recess with
the teachers in the teacher's room.  The kid did not have to get A's
just that they were working for one.  God knows how difficult it is when
a child has no breakfast.  Caring teachers, great school.

Keat
 
The above are all true and the rest are my opinions.
Microsoft has nothing to do with them.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: u907736@postoffice.utas.edu.au (Edmund Chia)
Subject: Malaysian Prince - What Really happened
Organization: University of Tasmania
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 03:48:00 GMT

Okay, I don't know what really happened. I do know that a lot of the arguement
going on is speculation based on the wrong facts. It appears now that all the
people who believed that the Prince and his children are 'safe and happy' in
Malaysia are mistaken. Apparently, they are now in Indonesia. If its true, it
will complicate matters even more. Also, the news(in Australia) inferred that
the Malaysian government/courts has got involved and claims jurisdiction and
issued custody of the children to the father. I also heard that the Singaporean
media ran an article where the Prince's mother said that her son took his
children away from Australia because they were about to be baptised as
Christians. Incredibly, the people with the least to say on the matter is the
Australian AND Malaysian governments. Perhaps, they are still trying to figure
out what happened.

If we looked at the plain 'facts(?)' of case, it appears to be a simple 
domestic dispute. A man and woman got married. A man and a woman had two kids.
A man and a woman got divorced. The woman got custody of the kids. The man
got visitation rights. The man got unhappy with the way his kids were being
raised. The man took his kids away. The woman raised a fuss and is trying to
get her kids back. This cannot be the first time there has been a custody
dispute in Australia, nor the first time a parent(mother or father)
has defied a court order with respect to their children. However, the media 
chose to sensationalise the matter. The mother and step-father of the children
said they did not want a media circus but thats what has happened. Speculation
is rife - people asserting that the girl would be circumcised and mutilated,
that they stole out of Australia in the best traditions of spy movies, that
they are hiding in Malaysia 'protected' by an evil Malaysian government - 
perhaps now Ross Perot would be involved in this soap opera by hiring someone 
to rescue the two kids.

Relations between Australia and Malaysia, two SouthEast Asian neighbours have
been strained enough recently without the need for more bad feeling. So far,
this domestic dispute has only involved INDIVIDUAL nationals. Just because
one Malaysian punches an Aussie or vice versa does not mean that both countries
are at war. Similarly, just because a Malaysian man is presently involved in a
domestic dispute with an Australian woman over THEIR children is no reason for
an international dispute and war-paint - not yet anyway. Damn! this is beginning
to sound like a sermon.

Edmund
From: SSR48327@VAX1.UTULSA.EDU (Syed Shibli)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: How good (?) is life in Singapore?
Date: 22 Jul 92 21:49:32 GMT
X-Received: by usenet.pa.dec.com; id AA08872; Wed, 22 Jul 92 14:49:41 -0700
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kytan@mantra.fia.dmg.ml.com (Kok-Yong Tan) writes:

>It also doesn't prove that Singaporeans in Singapore produce any more than
>American workers.  Singaporeans are equally capable of doing the equivalent of
>hanging around the water cooler or placing their brains on idle.  Just because
>one is sitting at one's desk or running around like a headless chicken doesn't
>mean that one is producing anything of importance.

  Speaking of which, one can just sit for hours reading and responding
  to USENET news. However, as I write this, I'm getting paid minimum wage.


-- 
                                              --Syed Shibli
                                                ssr48327@vax1.utulsa.edu
                                                +1 918 631 3257
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: harish@csar.uucp (Harish Pillay)
Subject: Re: Loving Malaysian Prince: New Developments
Organization: CSA Research, Singapore
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 09:06:20 GMT

ytay@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu writes:

[ ...text deleted ... ]
>Now, Harris Pillay, is going to say this girl is over-sensitive and
>over-reacting again.

I guess you are referring to me; could have at least got my first name 
right :-).

Well, if Harris said that you were over-sensitive and over-reacting, I
suppose he has the right to say so.  I cannot and do not want to vouch for 
him :-).

Enjoy.
--
Harish Pillay |                  |    Internet:   harish%csar@uunet.uu.net
Singapore     | +65-775-0224 (w) |"Psst!  Wanna buy some mint-flavoured gum?"
From: Black_Swan@MTS.RPI.EDU
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Welcome Chulalongkorn University to Internet
Date: 31 Jul 92 02:44:02 GMT
X-Received: by usenet.pa.dec.com; id AA15510; Thu, 30 Jul 92 19:44:10 -0700
X-Received: by inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com; id AA13003; Thu, 30 Jul 92 19:44:06 -0700
X-To: soc.culture.asean.usenet


 
Welcome to the INTERNET club, Chulalongkorn UNiversity of Thailand.
 
Chula has an internet link via VA.ALTER.NET.  Presently
chulkn.chula.ac.th is ``visible''.  They have gateway.chula.ac.th
running the Telibit Netblazer I think.
 
 
Black Swan
Black_Swan@mts.rpi.edu
From: ksafar@guvax.georgetown.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: What is ASEAN?
Date: 21 Jul 92 09:05:40 -0400
Distribution: world
Organization: Georgetown University

In article <1992Jul21.070535.2841@mailhost.ocs.mq.edu.au>, 
     s8923098@macnab.mqcs.mq.oz.au (Josef WIDJAJA) writes:
> In article <1992Jul20.175810.6367@leland.Stanford.EDU> 
     chuakh@leland.Stanford.EDU (Khenghwa Chua) writes:
> |In article <1992Jul20.094413.1147@guvax.georgetown.edu> 
     ksafar@guvax.georgetown.edu writes:
> |>    ASEAN is short for the Association of South East Asian Nations, 
> |>created in Bangkok in 1967. Member nations are Indonesia, Malaysia, 
> |>the Philippines, Thailand, and Brunei (joined in 1984). Three primary 
> |
> |Hmm, I think you left out Singapore in that list of countries.  Also,
> |can someone confirm if Burma, Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam are in ASEAN.
> |I always see their contingents in the SEA Games but no one has been able
> |to tell me if they are member countries of ASEAN.
> 
> Singapore is a member. Burma, Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam are not members
> of ASEAN although geographically, they are southeast asian countries.

My dear netters, sorry I missed (inadvertently, of course) Singapore 
as an ASEAN member. Of course I know Singapore is in the Association. 
But as Josef wrote above, the other countries are not member nations. 
Last year, there were rumours/talks that Vietnam has expressed her 
interest in becoming a member. What happened after that, I don't know.
As far as Burma/Myanmar is concerned, years ago she was invited by the 
others to join but she declined. Why?...somebody will have to check 
that out.

Kamal.
From: ciar04@vaxa.strath.ac.uk
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: Credit/Charge Card (was Re: Social Development Unit)
Date: 30 Jul 92 13:59:24 GMT
Organization: Strathclyde University VAX Cluster

In article <1992Jul29.165243.18336@bnr.ca>, khor@bmerh9d4.bnr.ca (Kyle Hor) writes:
> In article <1992Jul28.140712.1@vaxa.strath.ac.uk>, ciar04@vaxa.strath.ac.uk writes:
> |> In article <1992Jul27.130237.16960@bnr.ca>, khor@bnr.ca (Kyle Hor) writes:
> |> 
> |> > Who needs the extra "privilege" of being an Amex member since ...
> |> > Most merchants prefer credit cards anyway.
> |> 
> |> That's incorrect.  Both an in-house survey conducted some years ago by
> |> my bank and a survey by CASE shows that merchants prefer accepting cash
> |> to credit card.
> |> 
> |> Regards.
> |> 
> It seems like my ending remarks were mis-interpreted.  I was comparing Amex
> charge card vs VISA/MC/etc credit cards.
> 
> ...Kyle  

My apologies!  From my experience (in the credit card business), merchants
do indeed prefer Visa/MasterCard to Amex/Diners.  This is due to the high
discount charged by Amex/Diners.

Regards.

#----------------------------------#-------------------------------------------#
|  W.H.Watt                        #  JANET:                                   |
|  Dept. of Accounting & Finance   #           w.h.watt@uk.ac.strath.vaxa      |
|  University of Strathclyde       #  Rest of the World:                       |
|  Glasgow                         #           w.h.watt@vaxa.strath.ac.uk      |
|  United Kingdom                  #                                           |
#----------------------------------#-------------------------------------------#
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Othman Ahmad)
Subject: Re: OLYMPICS IN MALAYSIA ????
Organization: Nanyang Technological University - Singapore
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 10:13:50 GMT

In article <1992Jul26.153348.1@cc.curtin.edu.au> rswiftrw@cc.curtin.edu.au (Rod Swift) writes:

: In article <ll9mb5k2@csv.warwick.ac.uk>, espca@warwick.ac.uk (Kenny Lee ) writes:
: 
: > WHEN WILL IT BE FOR MALAYSIA  ?.
: 
: YOu have got the Commonwealth Games, so dont expect to be in Olympic contention
: until 2016...
: 
: Anyway, you'll probably do a "Montreal" on everyone.
: 
: Malaysia has a sad Olympic record -- 18 million people and zero medals.
: It is quite sad, as Malaysia should have one a medal by now!

Because Silat, Takraw, Badminton were not there even with 200 million people
in ASEAN, whereas synchronised swimming were in, even when it was more like
dancing to me and not even practiced by common people.

--
Othman bin Ahmad, School of EEE,
Nanyang Technological University, Singapore 2263.
Internet Email: eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg
Bitnet Email: eoahmad@ntuvax.bitnet

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean