From: raj@aelle.cs.odu.edu (M. P. Krishna Raj)
Subject: Re: Why are TAMILS hated ? (SOME ANSWERS !!)
Organization: Old Dominion University Dept. of CS, Norfolk VA
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 23:27:57 GMT

In article <1992Aug16.202016.9447@wam.umd.edu> ravik@wam.umd.edu (Ravi Kuchimanchi) writes:
>I am posting this for a friend. Please dont email this account.
>			-Ravi

It will be better, if you introduce your friend. He/She need not hide
in initials. If they want to hide themselves they need post on the net.

>___________________________________________________________________
>WHY TAMILS ARE HATED ? The reason is extreme JINGOISM. (I don't have
>to go far to get examples. I will just use recent net postings when
>I need to illustrate a point.) People dont like others walking
>around with a chip on their shoulder, especially when it is built
>on a shaky foundation of lies cooked up for devious political 
>ends (by the kazhagams).
>
This is wild accusation. Talk to the point. Why are bringing political
parties here. 


>1. TAMIL is somewhat more ANCIENT.
>Tamil is "ancient". But not much more ancient than (say) Kannada. 
>Historically speaking Tamil has no special place any more than Kannada,
>Telugu, urdu, and various other Prakrits and spoken REGIONAL languages.

Urdu? 
Please add english, french also to your list.
  
>There is no sense even in making grandoise comparisons of Tamil 
>to Sanskrit. Sanskrit is the oldest Indo-European language and the Vedas
>are at least 3700 years old. Its influence is also international
>strectching from Japan, philipines, china, south east asia, all the
>way to central asia.

Please quote relevant references for
a) Oldest Indo-european Languge.
b) Its influence in Japan,philipines


 On the other hand, Tamil is spoken in some small
>corner of India and Srilanka and has literary history dating only as far
>back as the birth of christ and would be difficult even to make a case 
>of superiority to other REGIONAL languages. 
>

What do you mean by this. There is no question of Regional,national
and official language here. Prove your comment with older literarure
of different languages and their ages and also state why it is difficult.


>(Example 1: It was funny when someone asked why there were no "ancient" 
>Tamil books in mathematics. Ofcourse not. They are in Sanskrit including 
>many  written by people in what is now Tamil Nadu.)

Please quote those for the benifit of the nettors

>
>WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT, it is a HISTORICAL and ARCHAELOGICAL fact, 
>that there is NO artifact suggesting any form of civilisation in 
>south india till about 300 BC or so (this is really stretching it).
>THE RUDIMENTS of south indian civilisation from music to literature
>to grammar is essentially IMPORTED from the North.  The cradle of Indian 

What do you mean by south indian civilization.


>civilisation is Sindh and the gangetic valley (cities of Mohenjodaro 
>date to about 3000 BC). If at all anybody, the Sindhis can have a
>chip on their shoulder !!

Mohenjodaro in Sind and Gangetic valley?
 
What about artifacts from Newyork civilation in Union Territory of
Pondicherry. Pondians can have a chip on their shoulder. 

Sunstantiate
a)Existence of Sind and Sindhis at about 3000 B.C 



>
>(Example 2: I had a good laugh when someone refered to TOlkappiyam as 
>the most ancient grammar. Especially as it is believed the person who 
>wrote it belonged to one of the ancient Sanskrit grammar schools. It is

Who believed so?
What is the name of the 'one of the ancient Sanskrit grammar schools'

>even funnier since many technical terms and grammatical concepts in
>modern linguistics  are from Sanskrit and the study of comparitive 
>philology  originated with the study of Sanskrit.)

Please quote some books or journals. I like to enlighten myself. 

>
>
>2. Tamil and Tamil history are DISTINCT. Yes this is true. BUT it is
>no more distict than ANY regional variation of the Indian civilisation,
>like Bengali (say). But what some s.o (school dropouts of Kazhagam fame)

Your are hiding your childishness under linguistic jargon.
There is no wrong in being school drop out. They are famous because
they had the self confidence in them. 
 
>are doing is to throw out 75 % of Tamil culture (which is shared with 
>all of India and is decidedly SANSKRITIC) and highlight only the remaining
>20 % which is the local variation and things unique to Tamil Nadu. 

Please enlighten us how to make percentage analysis of  a culture.
75%+20% =95 % . What happened to the 5%. I hope you are not a school drop out. 

>
>(Example 3:
>It is funny to see that one poster thinks that Saiva Siddhanta
>or Siddhars are the true Tamil religion. Saiva Siddhanta falls 

There is nothing funny in that if you substantiate from yourSaiva Siddhanta
Text about the existence of Sanskrit Siddhars.

>squarely in the Sanskritic classification of Indian philosophy
>into 3 unorthodox  6 orthodox and the remaining Saiva and Saktha
>schools. Read any Saiva Siddhanta text and the terminology is 
>entirely Sanskrit based and follows in Sanskritic traditions. 
>It is also clasified with other related local variations in other parts of 
>India like Kashmiri Saivism.  All this not withstanding the fact 
>that Sankara and Ramanuja hailed from the Tamil Country and the Bhakti
>movement a decided part of pan-Indian Sanskritic culture was once a 
>local Tamil variation !! )
>
>I could give other example but I will stop here.
>

I need not ask for more examples.
>
>					-L . S
>


M.P. Krishna Raj

Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil,alt.culture.tamil