HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: terry@garfield.Stanford.EDU (Terry Wong)
Subject: Re: Billy Owens update
Keywords: Billy Owens, Warriors
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 93 07:34:40 GMT

In article <C096st.2MM@techbook.com>, jamesd@techbook.com (James Deibele) writes:
|> terry@garfield.Stanford.EDU (Terry Wong) writes:
|> 
|> >Meanwhile, the Warriors have won 9 of 11 since Owens has been out.  
|> >This has fueled trade rumors involving Owens.  The most persistent
|> 
|> Up here in Portland the Oregonian is reporting that Hardaway doesn't
|> like Owens and that's why Owens is on the block.  I'm surprised, because
|> Owens seems like a very productive player for the Warriors.  I would say
|> that both teams came out OK on the Owens-Richmond trade.
|> 

Both players have denied that there is any friction between them.
Supposedly, Owens wants to handle the ball more, while Hardaway wants
to keep control, but I doubt it.  Anyone who knows Hardaway knows that
he is the most aggressive person on the team and he considers the
Warriors to be his team.  Noone on the team, not even Mullin, tries
to challenge this.  Both Mullin and Owens are low-key guys and
are rarely demonstrative.  It's hard to imagine that Owens would challenge
Hardaway's authority.

|> Also, I wonder what kind of stress Nelson is under: he's blown up
|> publicly at a couple of his players.  He criticized Buechler for sinking
|> a bank shop a few feet from the hoop with little time left on the clock
|> and the Warriors behind by 3.  But it was Hardaway that passed him the
|> ball --- what's Buechler supposed to do with it?  Pass it back?  Wait
|> for the defender to foul him, sink the shot and the foul shot for 3?
|> 
|> I understand that you don't want a 2 in that situation, but it seemed
|> like Hardaway that made the mistake, not Buechler.  
|> --

Nelson is under more pressure this year, because he doesn't like losing.
However, his public blow-ups are nothing new; he regularly chews out
everyone except Hardaway and Mullin.  In fact, this year he has been
more sedate than normal.  He says he is trying to be patient with his
young team.

On the particular play that the Warriors lost on against Charlotte
Nelson was mad that Buechler was inside the 3 point line at the beginning
of the play.  In fact, Owens and Houston were also within the 3 point arc.
After the game, Buechler explained that he thought Hardaway was shooting,
not passing, and he was going to the basket for the rebound.  He was
extremely surprised when he got the ball in his hands, and it is doubtful
that he had enough time to pass the ball back out or to step back beyond
the line.  I agree with you that Buechler was not the only guilty
party on that play and should not have been the primary focus of
Nelson's anger.

					terry@garfield.Stanford.EDU
From: centeno@pasadena-dc.bofa.com (R. CENTENO)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: La Lakers
Date: 23 Dec 92 08:03:06 PDT
Organization: Bank America Systems Engineering, Pasadena, CA


>Robert Statsinger's distaste for Scott seems to start from Scott's
>presumptuousness at the beginning of his career.  If Scott's role is defined
>as above, then I think his contribution has been exactly what was expected of
>him.  I doubt if West or Riley saw Scott as Scott saw himself.  I like Scott
>for this role, and his numbers this year show a return to the pre-hamstring form.
>I, for one, used to cheer his jump shots when the defense was worrying about
>Worthy and Kareem, and hope that this year he's going to do the same, with
>Randy Pfund trying out all these big man combinations with Vlade, Worthy,
>Elden, Edwards and Perkins.

I have very mixed feelings about Scott.  When he's on his game, he's great.
But, for the last few years, where has he been????????  I hope that when he
returns from his foot sprain (how long does it take to recover from what I
view as a minor injury???) that it doesn't take another 2 year to return to
form like it did with his hamstring injury.  If I remember correctly, Magic
pulled his hamstring in the same year in the playoffs.  It didn't take him 
2 years to return to form!!!  Anyhow I hope Scott's production continues.  If
it does not, he's gone after this season (his contract ends this year).

>Worthy definitely needs the good crisp passer that Magic needs, but his current
>slump is not because of the lack of passes.  He was quite capable of picking
>up ~18-20 points solely on his quick moves to the hole, outside 17 footers and
>posting up.  He has lost that also.  He's suffering from a major case of
>"Back from Surgery" blues.  I am waiting for them to clear up.  I wonder if
>his knees hurt him or whether it's purely psychological.  Robert, I'm waiting
>for your response.

Don't you mean "Back from Surgery" and "Where's Magic" blues??  I realize that
Magic was gone all season last year too, but weren't James's numbers down 
last year too.  I don't think his slump is due to physical problems at this
point, they are mental.  When he gets his confidence back, and his leadership
returns, he will be GREAT again.

>I like Scott, but he is never going to be an All-Star.  Worthy is one, and
>the Lakers need him badly.  Worthy is capable of stepping up his play to
>be a defensive force, a fast break weapon, and a tolerable passer whenever
>he shoots badly.


You hit the nail on the head.


>On another note, why did the Lakers keep Jack Haley and dump Sean Higgins?
>I thought they had enough big men and a forward would have helped.  If Jack
>is going to be on the DL for the entire season, what's the use of wasting
>a spot on the roster?

With the acquisition of Edwards there is no need for Haley at all.  I like 
Jack for his tenacity, but when he's in, doesn't he remind you of that Laim
beer drinking fool in Detroit???


>-Vach

-Rob
Organization: Arizona State University
Date: Monday, 21 Dec 1992 22:03:54 MST
From: <KHDLC@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject:    Phoenix Suns

Im new to the Phoenix area, just moved here from NYS recently. My 5 year
old daughter and I like basketball and today we had the chance to attend
an open practice for the Phoenix Suns. They have a really nice setup,
admission to a practice is a can of food, which is donated to local
shelters or $1.00.

My problem..the only Phoenix Suns I am familiar with are Charles Barkley
and Danny Ange (sp?). Could somehow tell me the other team members and
possibly their numbers and what positions they play.

I'd like to keep up with them...

Thanks.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: claird@NeoSoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Subject: Stats on Clippers and others (was: miscellanea...)
Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 14:15:30 GMT

In article <BzLDK9.I67@news.cso.uiuc.edu> krust@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Kelly Rust) writes:
>A few observations as we've rounded the first turn.
			.
			.
			.
>BEST BACKCOURT?  I haven't seen them play, but the production
>from Mark Jackson and Ron Harper has been outstanding (36ppg,
>12rpg,14apg,4.5spg)...compared with, say, Jordan/Armstrong (45ppg,
>9rpg,10apg,2.5spg) I'd say it's a toss-up.  Maybe one of our
>resident Clipper mavens could offer an opinion...
Who is that posts the statistical summaries?  I've lost
your name, already; sorry.  In any case, I like 'em.
According to the one posted after most teams had played
about twenty games, the Clips were third in the league
in average scoring difference, putting up 5.1 points
per game more than their opponents.  The Bulls were
only at +4.2 (a big difference).  On paper, this is not
one of the stronger Clipper teams of recent years, and
the three-point rule sure does them no favors (they're
losing 1.5 points per game in that alone), but they're
holding opponents FG % down, they have *many* fewer (!)
turnovers than their opponents, and they're racking up
a lot of assists and offensive rebounds.  I know Larry
Brown is a flawed individual, but he certainly brings
out the best in some people.

Anyone have wise things to say about working the referees
(also called "astute strategy")?  The Clippers' opponents
score an average of 5.5 points a game more on free throws;
across town, the Lakers lead the league in this statistic,
outscoring their opponents from the line by a full 7.0 ppg.
That's a lot, and compensates for the Lakers' mediocre
free-throw shooting, rebounding, and ball-handling.  'Ts
funny how different the game looks with even minor tweaks
in the rules.

Other statistical observations:  the Magic are hitting on
42.3% of their three point attempts, Indiana 23.7% (what
happened to the Pacers' reps as sharpshooters?).  The Clip-
pers are way, way ahead of the rest of the league in
turnover advantage, committing 4.3 fewer a game.  The only
team close to that extreme is Orlando; they make 3.9 more
each game than their opponents.
			.
			.
			.
-- 

Cameron Laird
claird@Neosoft.com (claird%Neosoft.com@uunet.uu.net)	+1 713 267 7966
claird@litwin.com (claird%litwin.com@uunet.uu.net)  	+1 713 996 8546
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: "stephen dawson" <stephen.dawson@canrem.com>
Subject: shaq vs. wilt
Reply-To: "stephen dawson" <stephen.dawson@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: rec
Date: 22 Dec 92 19:33:11 EST

dorin@ksr.com (Bob Dorin) writes:

BD>Just decided to check just how often Wilt faced Boston in the
BD>playoffs.
BD>1960 (Wilt is a rookie for Philly Warriors)      Boston in 6
BD>1961 (Philly eliminated in first round sweep)    Syracuse in 3 straight
BD>1962 (Eastern finals; Wilt season averaged 50.4) Boston in 7
BD>1963 (Warriors in San Fran, i.e. Western Div)    fail to make playoffs
BD>1964 (Wilt faces Russell in NBA finals)          Boston in 5
BD>1965 (Wilt traded to 76ers in mid-season)        Boston in 7
BD>1966 (2nd of 4 consecutive Eastern finals)       Boston in 5
BD>1967 (Title for Wilt!!)                          Philly in 5
BD>1968 (Boston 8 games behind Philly in East but)  Boston in 7
BD>1969 (Wilt in LA; balloon game 7 in NBA finals)  Boston in 7
BD>1970 (Wilt loses to NY in NBA finals, never faces Boston again in
BD>      playoffs)

BD>I guess this is one of those cases where time has not caused an
BD>exaggeration - Wilt was in fact dominated by Russell in playoffs.

Give Wilt a break! Russell had one of the best supporting casts of
all time. What did Wilt have to play with?

And in 1970, Reed had a great cast that played their best. Wilt
suffered from a stobe cold Jerry West. Possibly the only bad playoff
year for West.

Remember, Wilt led the best team of all time! He and Hairston,
MacMillan, West and Goodrich won 33 in a row, lost only 13 in the
season, and won the title.

    STEPHEN
    ^^^^^^^
 stephen.dawson@canrem.com

 * DeLuxe2/386 1.25 #3969 * The greatest awards in life are those you bestow.
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: benjie@quack.sac.ca.us (Android)
Subject: Re: La Lakers
Organization: The Duck Pond public unix: +1 408 249 9630, log in as 'guest'.
Distribution: usa
Date: 22 Dec 1992 06:21:13 UTC

robert@aero.org (R. S. Statsinger) writes:

>In article <42785@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> kompella@cs.ucsd.edu (Vachaspathi Kompella) writes:
>|
>|The win at Denver was as nail-biting as to be painful.  Come on, the Lakers
>|should do a lot better than that.  You know it.  That's what Scott is good
>|for.  A steadying influence when James is shaky.  Of course, you are a Scott-
>|hater, so you wouldn't understand :)

>Well, I agree that the Lakers could have - and should have - played
>better. But Byron Scott a steadying influence????  You have GOT to
>be kidding.....the ONLY thing Scott is good for is hitting open
>jumpers on the wing......sometimes.......and he is "on" ONLY
>when the rest of the team is "on" - if the team is flat, Scott
>DEFINITELY won't be of any help (that's the way things have been
>with him since he joined the team - whether or not that can change
>is another matter)

>Hell, the only reason people might be defending Scott right now is
>that it's been 2 months since he's played, and you've all forgotten
>how one dimensional he is..........

>I look for the return of Tony Smith to help alot.....

>			R.S.

But don't forget, Scott is one of the few remaining old Lakers.  In
Chick's word, he is Laker-like, more Laker-like than Worthy, Green.  I
remember last year, at the end of the regular season, before LAKERS'
final game, every player was watching the Rocket game because if the
Rocket lost(which they did), they would have a chance to make the
playoffs.  Scott was the only one not watching because he said it would
be "Un-Laker like".  He is a influence, on the team, mentally.


D
D
D
D
But don't forget, Scott is one of the remaining
-- 
     BBB		Benjie Chen
    BCCCB 		benjie@quack.sac.ca.us
    BCCCB		No Axiomatic System Could Produce All Number-
     BBB		Theoretical Truths, Unless It Is Inconsistent.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: jamesd@techbook.com (James Deibele)
Subject: Re: Billy Owens update
Keywords: Billy Owens, Warriors
Organization: TECHbooks --- Public Access UNIX --- (503) 220-0636
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 01:00:23 GMT

terry@garfield.Stanford.EDU (Terry Wong) writes:

>Meanwhile, the Warriors have won 9 of 11 since Owens has been out.  
>This has fueled trade rumors involving Owens.  The most persistent

Up here in Portland the Oregonian is reporting that Hardaway doesn't
like Owens and that's why Owens is on the block.  I'm surprised, because
Owens seems like a very productive player for the Warriors.  I would say
that both teams came out OK on the Owens-Richmond trade.

Also, I wonder what kind of stress Nelson is under: he's blown up
publicly at a couple of his players.  He criticized Buechler for sinking
a bank shop a few feet from the hoop with little time left on the clock
and the Warriors behind by 3.  But it was Hardaway that passed him the
ball --- what's Buechler supposed to do with it?  Pass it back?  Wait
for the defender to foul him, sink the shot and the foul shot for 3?

I understand that you don't want a 2 in that situation, but it seemed
like Hardaway that made the mistake, not Buechler.  
--
jamesd@techbook.COM                   "2516 newsgroups & nothing on ..."  
PDaXs gives free access to news & mail. (503) 220-0636 - 1200/2400, N81  
Full internet (ftp, telnet, irc) access available. Voice: (503) 223-4245
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: gidi@Hilbert.Stanford.EDU (Gidi Avrahami)
Subject: Re: Spurs, etc.
Organization: Brotherhood Of Breath
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 23:56:34 GMT

paulg@microsoft.com (Paul Goode) writes:
>Tarkanian [...]
>was left with holding together a group of reserves that by no means
>included a NBA-calibre starting point guard. 

A group of reserves?!  Surely you don't include David Robinson,
Sean Elliott and Dale Ellis in that group?

Okay.  I'll grant you that the Spurs lineup is lacking.  But they have
a lot to build on and it's silly to put all the onus on the point
guard, or lack of one.

Nobody has a perfect lineup (except the 86 Celtics) and yet teams do
win championships, if they know how to utilize their strengths.  Why,
just recently a team with Paxson at PG and Cartwright at center won a
championship or two.


--Gidi
From: kompella@cs.ucsd.edu (Vachaspathi Kompella)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Lakers are in Trouble
Date: 30 Dec 92 23:39:19 GMT
Organization: CSE Dept., UC San Diego


In article <1992Dec30.211456.11296@microsoft.com>, paulg@microsoft.com (Paul Goode) writes:
|> In article <1992Dec29.132844.42@pasadena-dc.bofa.com>, centeno@pasadena-dc.bofa.com (R. CENTENO) writes:
|> > >Well, it may soon be time for Jerry West to act. The optimism
|> > 
|> > I'm thiking Vlade, Worthy, and Scott for Hakeem and draft pic(s).  Vlade 
|> >
|> 
|> Gosh, I bet Houston can't wait to make this deal. I mean, how often
|> do you get to pick Jerry West's pocket like this, anyway?
|> 
|> One absolutely correct strategic point that Larry Brown makes is
|> that you make trades to improve your team; otherwise, you don't
|> make them. (Admittedly, Larry could have executed on this better
|> with San Antonio.) So I'm the Houston GM. My team is 14-9, and 
|> you want me to trade you my franchise player *plus* a bunch of
|> draft picks for one possibly interesting player and two has-beens?
|> How does this improve my team, either now or in the next few
|> seasons? Why do people always think that their excess baggage
|> is worth my superstar? Not even Steve Patterson would make this
|> trade...
|> 
|> Paul

There are other reasons why a team makes trades, like to lower their total
salary, so that they can sign someone else.  E.g., next year's pick, or
to get rid of a trouble-maker/malcontent.  I mean, look at Philadelphia,
they had a real problem with Barkley, and now they feel so much better after
dumping him!!  Now they can beat Chicago ...

-Vach
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: wgr@rti.rti.org
Subject: Re: Spurs, etc.
Organization: Research Triangle Institute, RTP, NC
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 92 13:56:55 GMT

In article <OLIVER.92Dec25052312@ballard1.mit.edu> oliver@athena.mit.edu (James D. Oliver III) writes:

>The big rumor now is that Roy Tarpley wants to come back to play for Lucas.
>Tarpley is officially banned, but can apply for reinstatement next year.
>Dallas still owns his rights, but I imagine they wouldn't consider him part
>of any long-term building plan.  Other teams are interested, of course, but
>leery even though a healthy Tarpley is unquestionably the best rebounder in
>the league.  Tarpley and Robinson?  One can dream, can't one?

Dennis Rodman might question whether Tarpley is the best rebounder in
the league.

>J. R. Reid: Charlotte fans exulted his departure, but what are they going to
>do with Sidney Green?  I like J.R., he hustles and occasionally produces.
>Not bad for your third-string power forward, which he is.  If there's room
>for Ed Pinckney in the league, there's a spot for J.R.  Grade--B

The main thing the Hornets are going to do with Green is pay him a lot
less than they were paying J.R.  I don't think Charlotte's coaching staff
or fans *hated* Reid, but they had to evaluate him as a #5 pick in the
draft rather than as a third-string power forward.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: nates@ll.mit.edu ( Nate Smith)
Subject: Re: Shaq vs. Wilt
Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 20:22:47 GMT

In article <1992Dec22.175018.3491@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu> u_nique@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Jerray Wei) writes:
>
>Wilt was in fact dominated by Russell?  Maybe you forget how many great
>players were on those Celtic teams.  The last time I checked, basketball
>was a team game, and you can't tell who did what by which team won.
>
>Russell was just the best at defending Wilt and [Wilt's] teammates couldn't
>make up the difference against Boston's all-star line-up.

not to belittle the Jones boys, Heinsohn and Havlicek & the cooz, but it
certainly is remarkable how that team either won or lost the championship
depending on whether Bill was injured or not.  Bill was better at making
his team better.  i dont know if wilt ever made his team better, even when
he decided to lead the league in assists.....

- nate
+--------------------------------------------------------------+
|   Wilt Chamberlain:   A  stiff  20,000  times  over....      |
+--------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: byau@jarthur.claremont.edu (Ben Yau)
Subject: Kendal Gill info?
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 22:24:25 GMT

Hi.. i remember some mention here awhile ago of Gill being injur4ed.. 
does anyone have an update?

or am i totally clueless and it was just a figment of my imagination..
or have i been having too much "eggnong with x-tra brandy, hold the eggnog"

thanks all.

ben
From: xinjin@athena.mit.edu (Xinjin Zhao)
Subject: Re: My A to Z list
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 21:48:59 GMT

In article <1gik9sINNros@terminator.rs.itd.umich.edu>, rjs@citi.umich.edu (Robert J. Skrobola) writes:
|> 
|> A -- Abdul-Jabbar, Kareem (the all-time scoring leader)
|> B -- Bird, Larry  (arguably the best player of all-time)
|> C -- Chamberlain, Wilt
|> D -- Drexler, Clyde  (Walter Davis)
|> E -- Erving, Julius
|> F -- Frazier, Walt
|> G -- Gervin, George  (Artis Gilmore)
|> H -- Hawkins, Connie (Elvin Hayes?)
|> I -- Issel, Dan
|> J -- Jordan, Micheal
|> K -- Kousy, Bob :)

I thought it was Bob Cousy, if you mean the Celtics announcer.   

|> L -- Lanier, Bob
|> M -- Magic, Johnson (ok, I cheat a little), (Malone, Moses)
|> N -- Nance, Larry (Can't think of many N's)
|> O -- Olajuwon, Hakeem
|> P -- Pettit, Bob (Pippen)
|> Q -- Quinnet, Brian (can't think of ANY Q's) :)
|> R -- Robertson, Oscar
|> S -- Schayes, Dolph
|> T -- Thomas, Isiah
|> U -- Unseld, Wes
|> V -- Vandeweghe, Kiki (Norm Van Lear)
|> W -- Walton, Bill  (West, Jerry)
|> X -- Xavier McDaniel (I know, I know...)
|> Y -- Yardley, George
|> Z -- Zaslofsky, George (this is wrong..can't remember spelling)
|> 
|> 
|> -- 
|> -----------------------------------------------------
|> Rob Skrobola      Institutional File Server Project
|> Normal Disclaimer: I speak only for myself
|> -----------------------------------------------------


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From: as232@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael Lerner)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: What is the scoop on Laetner?
Date: 30 Dec 1992 21:04:03 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Well, team spirit is intangible, but I'd be interested to see Laettners'
FG% given the number of shots he's taking.  From a statistical standpoint,
I'd say if Laettner is under 50%, he's shooting too much to get his points.
Can someone post his stats, including FG%,FG made/attempted?

Mike
--