HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cwm@Turing.ORG (Chris W. Morris)
Newsgroups: alt.fractals
Subject: Hi-Color Fractals in Fractint??
Keywords: Fractint, fractal, hi-color
Date: 13 Oct 92 02:28:11 GMT
Organization: The Turing Project, Charlottesville Virginia.


 Has anyone created any 24-bit fractals? I have a ET4000 and would like to
do this, could someone give me any pointers on setting the config files?
If anyone has made any hi-color fractals, I would LOVE to get them!

Thanks for your time,
Chris W. Morris
cwm@Turing.org
---
--
From: abvax!ALF.CS.HH.AB.COM!BENNING
Newsgroups: alt.messianic
Subject: Anti-Semitic acts in Cleveland
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 9:21:14 -0400 (EDT)


 CLEVELAND_NEWS:

   The night of October 11th, the sukka of Tikvat Yisrael, Cleveland's
   Messianic Congregation, was attacked, and partially destroyed. It
   was unknown who the vandals were or what their intent was.

   Tuesday night (10/13) the sukka was rebuilt out of the remaining
   pieces. By Wednesday morning the sukka was again victimized by
   vandals. Police reports were made on both occasions. No witnesses
   have come forth. The police have indicated that the evidence leads
   them to believe (in light of the two attacks) that we are a target
   of someone. They suggest we leave the sukka down so no more attacks
   occur. We did build the sukka again last night and it stands as we
   left it this morning (10/15).

   It was assumed that this was an anti-Semitic act. If this is
   a act of anti-Semitism in the Cleveland area, it will not be the
   last.

   We ask for prayer from our fellow Messianic brothers and sisters
   for our protection from the hostile party who is doing these acts.
   Protection for the Jewish community as a whole is requested.
   Also for wisdom in dealing with the local community. And especially
   for the person(s) responsible for the destruction. Ask the Lord to
   make Himself known to the person(s) and to convict their hearts and
   the hearts of those who may know what happened, that someone will
   come forward and confess.


    Thanks from everyone at Tikvat Yisrael! B-)

         Bruce Benning __________ benning@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com

         -------------Religion may inform and reform-------------
         ----------but only Messiah Jesus can Transform----------

      For it is God's will that by doing good you should silence the
      ignorant talk of foolish men. Live as free men, but do not use
      your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as servants of God.
      Show proper respect to everyone: Love the brotherhood of
      believers, fear God, honor the king. -1 Peter 2:15-17
From: abvax!ALF.CS.HH.AB.COM!BENNING
Newsgroups: alt.messianic
Subject: re: Very Old Question...
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 7:46:53 -0400 (EDT)

>From: levene@aplpy.jhuapl.edu (Robert A. Levene)
>Newsgroups: alt.messianic
>Subject: Re: Very Old question for Rob Levene
>Date: 4 Oct 1992 11:11:50 -0500

> (Robert A. Levene) writes:
>You have a problem with works righteousness?  Well, says
>Jesus:
>#     and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize
>#     them. "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the
>#     kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who
>#     is in heaven.... -Matthew 7:18-23
>

 Actually He said:

     [ In the context of godly or ungodly leaders ]
     A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear
     good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down
     and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize
     them. "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the
     kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who
     is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did
     we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons
     and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I
     never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!' -Matthew 7:18-23

 The reference is not PROMOTING works righteousness, but OFFERS a warning.
 Not everyone who claims to know Yeshua is known by Him. Just like not
 everyone who does righteous acts is righteous.

 Actually Yeshua said this about the attitude of Works Righteousness:

   For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of
   the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not
   enter the kingdom of heaven. -Matthew 5:20

 If the Pharisees were the professional "Works_4_Righteousness" group
 and they were missing the mark, who then can enter the kingdom of heaven?
 Some asked Yeshua that question:

   Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God
   requires?" Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe
   in the one he has sent." -John 6:28-29

         Bruce Benning __________ benning@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com

         -------------Religion may inform and reform-------------
         ----------but only Messiah Jesus can Transform----------
From: levene@aplpy.jhuapl.edu (Robert A. Levene)
Newsgroups: alt.messianic
Subject: Re: Proof that Judaism is based on rejecting Jesus
Date: 11 Oct 92 13:46:06 GMT
Organization: Johns Hopkins University
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

In article <1992Oct11.082646.15753@midway.uchicago.edu>
pab1@midway.uchicago.edu (Paul Andrew Braier) writes:

> Start with the statement:
>
>    Vegetarianism is based on rejecting toads as food.
>
> Now this statement is obviously true. Next, make the substitutions
> 'Judaism' for 'Vegetarianism' and 'toads as food' for 'Jesus.'
> This completes the proof.

I don't accept the analogy, but thanks for the effort.  How about:

 Hinduism {is based on, is characterized by} rejecting hamburgers as food.

 Substitute "Judaism" for "Hinduism,"
            "Jesus" for "hamburgers," and
            "Messiah" for "food."

Hindu rejection of hamburgers as food is an effect of the rejection of
cows in general as food, which itself is an effect of the tenets of
Hinduism.  Hindus, of course, still believe in eating food.

Similarly, Jewish rejection of Jesus is an effect of the rejection
of false messiahs in general, which itself is an effect of the tenets
of Judaism.  Jews, of course, still believe that the messiah will come.

If a Hindu worked in Burger King, where most other employees
had a burger for lunch, people unfamiliar with Hinduism might
think that he had something against eating hamburgers, when
in reality, he's perfectly content to eat the vegetables which
he brings each day.

The friendly co-workers would say "OK, so he doesn't eat
hamburger.  That's his business."

The indifferent employees don't pester him either, even if
they consider his diet incorrect.

The obnoxious co-workers would lecture him about how eating
cow meat is the One True Way to health, and that the constant
pestering is for his own good.

The dangerous ones would force him to eat a hamburger, after
all, it *is* for his own good.

The crafty ones would try to tell him that it's OK
for true Hindus to eat hamburger and become
"Gourmet Vegetarians" (formerly called "Vegetarians
for Steak" until they caught on that Hindus were turned
off by words like 'Steak,' which conjure up images of
their ancestors being murdered by mobs of filet mignon eaters.)

The irrational, paranoid employees would hypothesize that the
early Hindus fashioned their religion primarily to avoid
having to eat hamburgers...

R
From: hudson@athena.cs.uga.edu (Paul Hudson Jr)
Newsgroups: alt.messianic
Subject: The Harvest.
Date: 12 Oct 92 21:49:46 GMT
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens

Has anyone ever read this book?  One part tells of how during while the
church is being persecuted, during a time of anti-Semetism, Jews will
seek refuge among Christians, and how that there will be a synthesis of 
the natural seed of Abraham, and the spiritual seed.  

Link Hudson.
From: hudson@athena.cs.uga.edu (Paul Hudson Jr)
Newsgroups: alt.messianic
Subject: Re: The Harvest.
Date: 15 Oct 92 20:52:43 GMT
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens

In article <stovall.718996921@ficus.cs.ucla.edu> stovall@ficus.cs.ucla.edu (Steven Stovall) writes:
>I lost track of
>Joyner and the movement in general around the time John Wimber mediated
>the Kansas City dispute. But I seem to recall asking Mike Brown about them
>a few years ago and getting a tentatively positive response.

A friend of mine has met with Joyner since then.  He is pastoring a small
congregation of about 50 people right now in Charlotte, NC.  Joyner puts
out the Morning Star Journal along with others every couple of months.  It
is a booklet of about 90 pages or so.  This past year it has been mostly
teaching.  According to my friend who met with him (actually ate with him
in his home.  Apparently Joyner isn't one of these superstar types.) when
he gets teaching stuff, he often does not get prophetic stuff.  He thinks
that there may be more prophetic stuff in Morning Star in the year to come.
I haven't read this publication yet.  But if it is as interesting and 
doctrinally-on-the-mark as his book seemed to be, I would like to read it.

Link Hudson.
From: levene@aplpy.jhuapl.edu (Robert A. Levene)
Newsgroups: alt.messianic
Subject: Re: Rabbinic Gymnastics
Date: 14 Oct 1992 21:12:06 -0500
Organization: Johns Hopkins University
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

> BC> I'm still waiting to hear why a Midrash that calls The-Messiah by
> BC> the VERY NAME OF HASHEM, (not a 'form' of the Name, nor a name
> BC> 'qualified' by the verse in Tanakh; but a Name 'supported' by the
> BC> verse in Tanakh), can exist in recognised Rabbinic lit.!
>
> RAL> I'm going to give you a Jewish response: "Why not?"
>
>     So I'm going to give you another 'Jewish repsonse': Why not-not?

The burden of proof is upon Bill Carlson to produce either

1) a halacha forbidding a person from using the tetragrammaton as a name, or
2) proof that being named with the tetragrammaton means that one is G-d

What about the next few sentences where the messiah's name is
given as "Menachem" or the aggada that the messiah was born
on 9 Av?

How about the Christian gymnastics to explain why Jesus wasn't
named Immanuel?

>     Sorry, that is not the question you were asked.  The question is
>     NOT that one has a composite, nor a form, nor as included in their
>     name, -the NAME of HaShem; BUT: THAT THE MIDRASH CALLS MESSIAH THE
>     VERY NAME [Y-H-V-H] OF HASHEM!  It says of Messiah:
>                    Y-H-V-H IS HIS NAME

You still haven't said why this implies that the messiah is G-d.
If that were the intent, the midrash could simply have said
that he would be G-d.  Instead it goes through a series of 
symbolic names for the messiah which describe his character
and deeds.

R



-- 
--
Robert A. Levene     Internet: levene@aplpy.jhuapl.edu
  "/  //  / /"         Bitnet:   RXL1@APLVM
From: btiffany@pbs.org
Newsgroups: alt.messianic
Subject: Re: Clean and unclean
Date: 9 Oct 92 09:41:43 EDT
Organization: PBS:Public Broadcasting Service, Alexandria, VA

Harvey Smith writes:

> Mj's relate to many different groups as i said before Tom.  Most of us 
> however see Earl Paulk as a deceiver, and not to be trusted, as once we have 
> taught him some things about anti semitism, he seems to levitate back to 
> that scene, much the same way as i perceived you have done in the past.

I hadn't heard that he had "levitated back", and if it's true, I'm unhappy
to hear it.  The last time Keith mentioned it to me all he had to say was
positive (of course, you'll very rarely hear Keith say anything negative
about anybody, anyway, no matter how much they deserve it ...); but then,
he was relating what happened when he and Dan went down there, not what Paulk
may have done since then.  However, I had the impression from him and Dan
that there was positive movement, even if it was less than optimal.  Do you
have more recent information?  Maybe I'll ask Dan Juster for an update when I
see him at Sukkot '92.  I saw him Wednesday at a Yom Kippur service, but
didn't talk to him, only Mike Brown.

-- BT
Newsgroups: alt.messianic
From: dah@tko.vtt.fi (David Harwood)
Subject: Re: Out Of Context Zohar Passage Clarifi
Organization: VTT
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 08:57:50 GMT

In article <9210080400.AA00965@aplpy.jhuapl.edu> levene@aplpy.jhuapl.edu (Robert A. Levene) writes:

[replying to B.C. with a

>Response from my "Zohar expert" friend...

who apparently doesn't know what B.C. was talking about, and failed to
research B.C's references, then questions motives ;-) All this from an
anonymous correspondent. (Less than one half (-assed) witness, according
to the Law.)

BC replied to Rob L's 'kabbalistic' cabal's cavil,
>
>          -I find it is usually good to follow the Mitsvot of Torah
>          before making such claims against another.  It helps to
>          ascertain if one really has a case, before trying to 'second
>          guess' the motives of another.
>
>True, but in this case Mr. Carlson's motives are very clear.  No
>'second guessing' is necessary.
>
>Thank you.
>
\\\\\\\\\\\
And thank God, it is He who judges our hearts, and not you or me.

D.H.
From: Bill.Carlson@p0.f18.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Bill Carlson)
Newsgroups: alt.messianic
Subject: Jewish Interpretation Of Daniel 9:24-27??
Date: 4 Oct 92 04:30:07 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/18.0 - Midrash, Denver CO

To: dwayne@blinker.NoSubdomain.NoDomain

 DM> Date: 2 Oct 92 16:40:21 GMT
 DM> Organization: Bellcore
 DM> Message-ID: <1992Oct2.164021.21111@walter.bellcore.com>
 DM> Newsgroups: alt.messianic

               -=> Quoting Dwayne Muller to All <=-
 DM> Is there anyone who may be able to explain to me what the
 DM> Conservative and Orthodox interpretations are of Daniel 9:24-27.

    The Conservative stance might vary.  To even saying it is only
    'an' anointed one, but not The-Messiah.  The Orthodox view, is
    that it is of The-Messiah:

I have examined and searched all the Holy Scriptures, and have not
found the time for coming of Messiah, clearly fixed, except in the
words of Gabriel  to  the prophet Daniel, which are written in the
ninth chapter of the prophecy ofDaniel." R.Moses Abraham Levi.

      Flavious Josephus (The Jewish Wars -pt.6 pgs.308-310): Includes
      the debate that Messiah was to come in 34 years, based upon 490
      year prophecy in Dan.9:24. -This debate took place in 32 BCe, and
      shows early understanding of this Messianic prophecy.

      [Also see: Rev.19:19,20:4-6]. Nazir 32b: Rabbi Joseph said: Had I
      been there, I should have said to them: Is it not written: The
      Temple of the Lord, the Temple of the Lord, the Temple of the
      Lord are these. [Jer.7:4], which points to (the destruction of)
      the first and second Temples?  (Since it indicates that there
      would be three Temples.  Thus the destruction was foretold, and
      could have been anticipated.)  Granted, they knew it would be
      destroyed, did they not know when this would occur?  Abaye
      objected: And did they not know when? -is it not written: Seventy
      weeks are determined upon thy people, and upon thy holy city.
      -[Dan.9:24].

      Somewhere else in Talmid it is stated that it is forbidden to
      figure the time of the coming of Messiah from Daniel, as 'the
      time has come and gone, and still He has not come.' [paraphrased]
      and I can't remember where exactly I read in there.

... 012 Am Israel Chai! 210  
--  
Bill Carlson - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Bill.Carlson@p0.f18.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG
From: Bill.Carlson@p0.f18.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Bill Carlson)
Newsgroups: alt.messianic
Subject: Out Of Context Zohar Passage Clarifi
Date: 9 Oct 92 18:20:04 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/18.0 - Midrash, Denver CO

To: dah@tko.vtt.fi

    Well, just for the record..., I have mentioned more than once,
    both before and after that they were from the Amsterdam version.
    Thanks for the replies to RL btw.  For a while, don't have as
    much time to post as I'd like.

l'hitraote

... 012 Am Israel Chai! 210

--  
Bill Carlson - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Bill.Carlson@p0.f18.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG
From: levene@aplpy.jhuapl.edu (Robert A. Levene)
Newsgroups: alt.messianic
Subject: Re: Out Of Context Zohar Passage Clarified
Date: 9 Oct 1992 09:15:50 -0500
Organization: Johns Hopkins University
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu


dah@tko.vtt.fi writes

> (vii) I suppose that some rabbis, and other Jews of some circles and sects
> in history, have also alterred texts 

While there clearly was self-censorship, particularly in the
Septuagint (documented in the Talmud), this is not comparable to
altering another religion's texts.

> and promulgated falsehoods as well, for religous reasons.

Which do you mean?

1. that what they sincerely promulgated were falsehoods...

2. that they intentionally promulgated what they knew were falsehoods,
   but did it anyway for religious reasons...

If #1, no problem - that's what I expect followers of other
religions to say.  If #2, I'd like to see some evidence.

R



-- 
--
Robert A. Levene     Internet: levene@aplpy.jhuapl.edu
  "/  //  / /"         Bitnet:   RXL1@APLVM
From: levene@aplpy.jhuapl.edu (Robert A. Levene)
Newsgroups: alt.messianic
Subject: Re: (old) Question For Rob Levene
Date: 15 Oct 1992 20:06:16 -0500
Organization: Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Lab
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

I said:

>> Similarly, a Jew who (G-d forbid) gives up Judaism for atheism is
>> "broke."  A Jew who practices another religion is "in debt,"
>> which is worse in a spiritual sense than having no religion.

Bruce Tiffany responds:

> I don't see any relationship between these analogies and our discussion.

A = "practicing Judaism"           1.  Jews must be "A"
B = "practicing another religion"  2.  Jews must be "not(B)"
                                   3.  "B" implies "not(A)"
                                   4.  "not(A)" does not imply "B"

A practicing Jew is in state {A,not(B)}.
A non-practicing Jewish atheist would be in state {not(A),not(B)}
A Jew who practices another religion, such as
Hebrew-Christianity would be in state {not(A),B}.

The analogy is that being in debt implies lacking a surplus,
while lacking a surplus does not imply being in debt.

Several posters have not yet grasped the distinction between
statements #3 and #4, and have therefore wondered aloud
why Jews treat atheists and Hebrew-Christians differently.

Simple?

R
-- 
--
Robert A. Levene     Internet: levene@aplpy.jhuapl.edu
  "/  //  / /"         Bitnet:   RXL1@APLVM
From: Bill.Carlson@p0.f18.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Bill Carlson)
Newsgroups: alt.messianic
Subject: Rabbinic gymnastics
Date: 9 Oct 92 17:50:04 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/18.0 - Midrash, Denver CO

Well..., there you have it folks!

One might wonder if perhaps the hide & seek tactics, that RL and his
'nameless' "Zohar expert" employ, are typical of Rabbinic Judaism as a
whole.  (Yet then there are the Hillel's and Ron's, that are more able
to debate on a 'noble' note, - and so restore our confidence.)

Rather than simply acknowledge that for almost 150 years in Judaism,
there was a wide spread 'messianic' movement, - that held to a form
of 'trinity' dogma, (and so not ignore a common-knowledge fact of
a century and a half of historical evidence of this wide spread
Orthodox kabbalistic trend), it seems that RL and his 'buddy', are more
content to deny the existance of the whole affair, call a well known
version of Zohar a fraud, and belittle and cast doubts on my person, -
and so cloud the issue, - once again.

Go to your local library, and study fully the subject of Frank-ists
and the S. Zevi-ites, then come back and tell us that this never
existed!  The Frankists, (who started out as Orthodox Kabbalistic),
even went so far, as to join the "Church" for a brief period of time,
to exaimine the similar natures of BOTH their understandings of the
Tri-Unity of HaShem, compaired to the Church's Trinity understanding.
(Of course, they were kicked out after a short time.)

Meanwhile, back at the ranch...

I'm still waiting to hear why a Midrash that calls The-Messiah by the
VERY NAME OF HASHEM, (not a 'form' of the Name, nor a name 'qualified'
by the verse in Tanakh; but a Name 'supported' by the verse in Tanakh),
can exist in recognised Rabbinic lit.!

... 012 But, woe unto the house that the turnip enters :-) 210
--  
Bill Carlson - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Bill.Carlson@p0.f18.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG
From: btiffany@pbs.org
Newsgroups: alt.messianic
Subject: Re: monograph on existence of Purgatory
Date: 15 Oct 92 17:20:07 GMT
Followup-To: alt.atheism
Organization: PBS:Public Broadcasting Service, Alexandria, VA

#3382

Subject: monograph on existence of Purgatory
From: neerven@cwi.nl (Jan van Neerven)
Date: 7 Oct 92 14:12:41 GMT

>                       PURGATORY EXISTS !!!!!
>                     ==========================

>                  Eschatologische Axiomatik
>                            zum
>                      transorbitalen
>                     Suendenmanagement

Suendenmanagement!!???

(Must be related to Rabbinic Judaism!  :-)   )

>             rigorously prove that Purgatory exists. Buying this
>             book will favourably influence your personal
>             grill-time.'

What is "grill-time"?

-- BT
Newsgroups: alt.messianic
From: xerox@cs.vu.nl (J. A. Durieux)
Subject: Re: Out Of Context Zohar Passage Clarified
Organization: Fac. Wiskunde & Informatica, VU, Amsterdam
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 15:53:50 GMT

In article <9210141504.AA19130@aplpy.jhuapl.edu> levene@aplpy.jhuapl.edu (Robert A. Levene) writes:

>Go ahead, post some examples of Jews whose hatred was such that they
>nefariously altered texts and promulgated falsehoods.  If you do have
>examples, let's see them, or at least pointers to them.  If you don't,
>then why believe that it happened?

I don't know if this counts, but after a Xian has posted in s.c.j., there
is generally a flurry of warning messages that one cannot trust Xians, that
they have hidden agendas, that - even though the question currently posed
sounds innocent enough - the only thing the poster wants is convert
uneducated Jews, that Xians aren't monotheistic, that Xianity teaches that
people are worth less than scum (whatever that may be, but I suppose it's
meant to be something of little value), etc.

I suppose this is evidence enough.

Disclaimer:  I am far from saying a significant portion of the Jews does
such things!  I only recognise that it happens, just like the original
author did (actually, he specifically only *supposed* it happened).

							  Biep.