From: nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson)
Subject: Re: Bush is a mother fucker
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 20:31:23 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA

In article <BuDo3o.7HH@apollo.hp.com> goykhman_a@apollo.hp.com (Alex Goykhman) writes:
>In article <1992Sep9.191920.23650@technology.com> richard@technology.com (Richard Murphy) writes:

>>I know this "keep government out of the economy" is the key point to
>>the republican ideology, but.....the examples of Japan, Korea, Singapore, etc.
>>seem to indicate that there can be a very close relationship between the
>>government and the economy and things can work out very well. ...
>
>    You might want to add the Soviet Union to your list.  Indeed, didn't
>    the Soviets enjoy higher rates of economic growth in the not so distant past?

  True.  Although much of that was measured in units (e.g., tons of steel,
  MW of electricity, and other heavy industry metrics) that did not
  translate well into higher standards of living for the people.  By 1990
  the average Soviet citizen was not living as well as the average citizen 
  of some of the more prosperous Asian Pacific Rim nations.  

  What I think is an interesting question is whether you can have a kind
  of "Fascism Lite"): enough economic freedom and incentive so people are
  motivated to try to make a buck, coupled with industrial policy and heavy
  investment in education and infrastructure, and paternalistically repress-
  ive government maintaining social order in an effort to prevent the kinds
  of social *disorder* which costs so much money and productivity in places
  like the US, France and the UK.    Singapore has done quite well at this,
  as has Taiwan and Japan (note that Japan is more democratic and open in
  many ways than the other two, culturally its concepts of individual
  rights are quite different from the US.   South Korea has also been 
  economically very successful but lately has suffered major political
  and labor disputes.  

  My only point in all this is that the only alternative to US and
  European -style capitalism is *not* Soviet-style communism, and we
  shouldn't become complacent now that the latter is dead.


  
>    While goverment intervention can keep the economy going, for a while,
>    it is important to consider the long term consequences too.  Today, Japan's
>    economy is a mess, and getting worse.

  Define "a mess".   Their unemployment rate is less than half of ours, 
  their current round of bank scandals are still smaller than ours,
  despite the fact that 8 of the world's 10 largest banks are Japanese.  
  They totally dominate several key technolgies and are consolidating gains
  in others.  Their unit output per man-hour is higher than ours.  The
  current issue of Fortune describes how their auto industry in the face
  of improved quality by US makers has introduced a new flexible manufac-
  turing  methodology which promises to slash time-to-market in order
  to maintain their advantages.   And the Japanese government reacted 
  briskly in a matter of months with new policies designed to counter 
  their problems, whereas the US, which is some 2 years into its recession
  has yet to agree on a plan of action.  Japan is having some problems,
  to be sure, but "a mess" describes the US, English, or French economies
  far better than the Japanese one.   



---peter