HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hack@arabia.uucp (Edmund Hack)
Subject: Finishing Epoxy Question
Organization: Lockheed ESC, Houston
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 20:36:04 GMT

I applied finishing epox to the fins of a few rockets I am constructing
(a Quest Navaho and an Estes Pathfinder [which I got free from Estes in
their buy 5 packs of engines/get a free rocket promotion]) and let them
dry overnight.  To my surprise, the surface was quite rough to the touch
when I checked them this AM.  Did I do something wrong?  What grit of
sandpaper would be a good starting place to begin smoothing them?

I had decided to use finishing epoxy on them as an experiment and, since
I'd like to use higher power motors in them, to strengthen the fins.
Any other hints on using finishing epoxy?  Anyone know of a cheap source
for brushes to use with it? I bought some "epoxy brushes" at the hobby
shop where I got the epoxy, but they run 25 cent each.
-- 
Edmund Hack - Lockheed Engineering & Sciences Co. - Houston, TX
hack@aio.jsc.nasa.gov - I speak only for myself, unless blah, blah..
NAR 12256 TRA 2004 (dang, 3 too late, Hal.....)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 14:29:35 -0500 
From: Lawrence Curcio <lc2b+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Compulsive Calculations

Well, I got compulsive. I put out DATCOM drag coefficients for various
configurations for speeds between 1 m/sec and 200m/sec at 1m/sec
intervals. I used these file instead of single drag coefficients in
altitude simulation runs. I depreciated air pressure with altitude and
used 500-interval thrust curves. Then I took the altitude figures from
these runs and back-engineered ascent times using a simple
Fehskens-Malawicki approximation. (That is, I methodically varied Cd
until I got the desired altitude and noted the corresponding ascent
time). The differences between the back-engineered ascent times and the
original simulated ones were small values in the third decimal place.

I conclude that, if the simulation model itself is correct, then the
subsonic configurations I tested (maximum altitude in my simulations was
1700 feet) are represented nicely by single drag coefficients, with no
atmospheric pressure correction. 

So why are my actual (measured) flight times so short? Oh well. Point
is, if my measurements are at fault, then the single Cd method works
fine in many cases, at least. 

-Larry
From: ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: refurbishing ICBMs as launchers
Date: 5 Nov 92 16:51:52 GMT
Article-I.D.: usenet.Bx95IG.8BH
Organization: Indiana University


Thought you guys might be interested in this post  9-)

(it was in sci.military)

In article <BwsK1n.GH2@law7.DaytonOH.NCR.COM| Doug Wade <wade@ucs.ubc.ca| writes:
|
|From Doug Wade <wade@ucs.ubc.ca|
|
|You might find the following message from Aug 1990 relevent to this thread...
|
|
|Newsgroups: sci.space
|Subject: SPARTAN ABMs- Uses?
|Message-ID: <81257@aerospace.AERO.ORG|
|Date: 16 Aug 90 22:42:45 GMT
|References: <1990Aug14.002402.5398@world.std.com| <7542@fmeed1.UUCP|
|Reply-To: smith@aero.UUCP (Thomas F. Smith)
|Distribution: sci
|Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
|Lines: 25
|
|
|Anyone familiar with the SPARTAN Anti-Ballistic Missile?
|
|I have a chance to pick some up at government surplus and
|wonder if I can do anything useful with them.
|
|The first stage is a modified ZEUS booster that burns for
|about five seconds, is 43 inches in diameter, 163 inches
|long, specific impulse of 198 lb/sec?, total weight 12 thousand
|pounds.  Sorry for the antique units but too lazy to convert.
|
|The second stage burns for 20 seconds, is the same diameter
|and 202 inches long, specific impulse of 219 ??, total weight
|of 14 thousand pounds.
|
|The third stage has a spherical motor with 659 pounds of
|propellant.  
|
|That's all I know about them for now.   Let me know if you
|want some.  
|
|
|-- 
|This space reserved.                                     Space Not Reserved.
|Space Commercialization Office, Space Systems Division, Los Angeles AFB, CA.   
|
|


-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala
Internet: NTAIB@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU |    Frog is Frog ala Peach
Bitnet:   NTAIB@IUBACS                 !
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: paul@taniwha.UUCP (Paul Campbell)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: Tiny Gyroscope, Paul?
Date: 8 Nov 92 16:35:51 GMT
Organization: Taniwha Systems Design

In article <1992Oct29.182337.1@ualr.edu> kmwheeler@ualr.edu writes:
>In article <1992Oct28.100020.1@adcalc.fnal.gov>, kissel@adcalc.fnal.gov writes:
>>>from paul@taniwha.uucp
>> 
>> Paul posted some info about a "tiny gyroscope" runs off 5V and is used in a

>If anybody has info on this mouse, please post it.  I think a lot
>of us would be interested.  This device would be perfect for a 

I'm afraid I don't have any more information, it turned up in all the 
electronics freebees (EDN, ECN, Electronics etc etc) about 6-9 months ago - I'd
try out back issues in your library.

The main drawback I remember about this gyro was that it lost it if it turned
upside down .... 

	Paul
-- 
Paul Campbell    UUCP: ..!mtxinu!taniwha!paul     AppleLink: CAMPBELL.P
    "There once was a president named Bush, we started giving him a push,
     Then we went hunting Quayle, got the Republicans nailed,
     And tossed them out on their tush" - Anon.
From: mckiou@cbnewse.cb.att.com (kevin.w.mckiou)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: Chicago Trade Show Results?
Date: 5 Nov 92 23:57:26 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: AT&T


OH YEAH - THE ESTES EGGLOFTER!  "Something for Bob Kaplow" was the way
Mike Hellmund put it.  It's a dual egglofter with a  capsule that
screws together.  Real streamlined and the bodytube looked like it
was just fine for >D dual egglofting.  Real efficient looking model.
The colors and trim were kind of funky, though <G>.  Comes with
molded foam to cradle the eggs.

Kevin
From: adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk (Adrian Hurt)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: 2 questions
Date: 9 Nov 92 13:38:59 GMT
Organization: Dept of Computing & Electrical Engineering, Heriot-Watt University, Scotland

In article <58oVVB1w165w@csource.oz.au> alfa@csource.oz.au writes:
>
>1.  In 2 of the 3 launches of my Estes Black Brant II, and 1 of the 2 launches 
>of my friends Estes Bull Pup, we found small dents on the top edge of the body 
>tube (where the nosecone slides in) - that is, one dent per flight...
> We figure what is happening is that on ejection, the nosecone is firstly 
>propelled away from the body, and then when the shock cord is stretched, the 
>nosecone then flips back at the body, hitting it and denting it.
> Does this happen to anyone else?

I think something similar happens to my Hornet.  Disregarding Estes' colour
scheme, I've painted mine overall light blue with a light grey nose cone,
a bright yellow band around the top of the body, and similar yellow bands
on each main fin.  When I recover it, I sometimes find the dent described
above, and traces of yellow paint on said dent.  It is no problem to bend
the body tube back into shape and apply a touch of paint to the nose cone.

-- 
 "Keyboard?  How quaint!" - M. Scott

 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cee
 UUCP: ..!uknet!cee.hw.ac.uk!adrian  |  ARPA:  adrian@cee.hw.ac.uk
From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: looking for old model
Date: 6 Nov 92 19:08:29 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <1992Nov5.155229.15628@nmsu.edu>, pfeiffer@nmsu.edu (Joe Pfeiffer) writes:
> This brings up a question I've had for a while:  assuming the C5 has
> the same total impulse as the C6 (my catalog isn't in front of me),
> how can it possibly have a high initial thrust with short thrust
> duration?  It has to have a longer duration, by definition.

When I measured them in the MIT test cell right after their introduction
(by Centuri) they certainly did.  The thrust tail is so low that the
observer might consider it part of the delay time.
-- 

cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com      --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...
From: soc1070
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: RE: Competition Stratagies
Date: 10 Nov 92 15:35:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: vx.10NOV199210350427
Organization: University of Minnesota CIS
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41


That post on competition would maybe make a nice special section in
the FAQ.


------
Tim Harincar				Millions long for immortality			
Central Minnesota 			who don't know what to do with
Association of Rocketry			themselves on a rainy Sunday 
soc1070@vx.cis.umn.edu			afternoon. -Susan Ertz
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: soc1070                         
Subject: Re: some questions on winter flying
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Minnesota CIS
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 16:24:00 GMT

In article <BxAxz7.LnI@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>, jsivier@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Jonathon Sivier ) writes...
>   This winter will be the first one for our recently formed rocket club.  We
>intend to have launches on as close to a regular schedule as the weather will
>allow.  Aside from the weather are there any special problems with winter
>flying?  How does the cold effect the launch system, motors, etc.?  How about
>reloads?  Wasn't the freezing of the O-rings the cause of the shuttle disaster?
>If anyone has any advice I'd like to hear it.
> 
>Thanks.
> 
>Jonathan

Our club has done quite a bit of winter flying. Its either that or have a 
pretty short flying season :).

Last year, for the first time we held a high power launch from a frozen
lake. This works out pretty good for us because in minnesota there is not
much open land that isn't farmed. A lake enabled us to find a site that
we could get waivered that was less than an hour from minneapolis and 
bigger than any site we've ever flown at before.

As far as particulars are concerned, make sure your launcher battery
is kept warm (at least before heading out to the site) and charge it
while its warm the day before. 

We flew reloads with no problem (the temp was in the low 30's) last 
year for the first time. Most of us kept the reload kits in inside
pockets of our jackets to keep them warm. Assemble them and fly them
right away. We had no problems or misfires.

I mean to say that we flew realods for the first time, not flew
them without problems for the first time...

We had snow on the lake, and those without thick soled boots were
pretty uncomfortable. 

Ice is harder on fins than any ground I've flown, best to try and
catch the vehicle if you can or lose fins.

All the BP motors we flew worked fine, again they were kept warm
until shortly before launch, usually in coat pockets.

------
Tim Harincar				Millions long for immortality			
Central Minnesota 			who don't know what to do with
Association of Rocketry			themselves on a rainy Sunday 
soc1070@vx.cis.umn.edu			afternoon. -Susan Ertz
From: buzz@rsd.dl.nec.com (Buzz McDermott)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: Finishing Epoxy Question
Date: 6 Nov 92 23:25:52 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: NEC America, Radio Software Dept

In article <1992Nov6.203604.2825@aio.jsc.nasa.gov>, hack@arabia.uucp (Edmund Hack) writes:
|> I applied finishing epox to the fins of a few rockets I am constructing
|> (a Quest Navaho and an Estes Pathfinder [which I got free from Estes in
|> their buy 5 packs of engines/get a free rocket promotion]) and let them
|> dry overnight.  To my surprise, the surface was quite rough to the touch
|> when I checked them this AM.  Did I do something wrong?  What grit of
|> sandpaper would be a good starting place to begin smoothing them?
|> 
|> I had decided to use finishing epoxy on them as an experiment and, since
|> I'd like to use higher power motors in them, to strengthen the fins.
|> Any other hints on using finishing epoxy?  Anyone know of a cheap source
|> for brushes to use with it? I bought some "epoxy brushes" at the hobby
|> shop where I got the epoxy, but they run 25 cent each.

Have I got the answer for you!!  Look for the Nov FAQ (in new format) to 
be distributed over the weekend.  It's 'Tips' section has a good discussion
of using coating epoxies. 

============================================================================
Buzz McDermott                   Internet: buzz@rsd.dl.nec.com
NAR  13559
TRA   1785
============================================================================
From: iqv@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: rochester area event?
Date: 9 Nov 92 11:11:37 EST
Distribution: rec
Organization: Cornell University

Let me start by saying that this group is really cool.
1)  The number listed for belleville hobby is the one I called (i checked my
phone bill.  I think I'll just write them.
2)  Someone sent me mail about an event in the rochester area.  For some reason, I
couldn't him back.  If anyone has information, times, loc. etc. please send
them to me.  (i think it's on the 15th of nov).

					Thanks, 
					David Sebba
waiting desperately for the F-14  :-)  
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: buzz@rsd.dl.nec.com (Buzz McDermott)
Subject: Rescheduled Dallas meet
Keywords: DANN-92, contest
Organization: NEC America, Radio Software Dept
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 16:30:59 GMT

The postponed DANN-92 Dallas, Tx, NAR open meet has been rescheduled.  The 
new dates and times are:

      What:   Dallas Area No-Name 1992 Open model rocketry meet (DANN-92)
      When:   Saturday, December 5th, and Sunday December 6th
              9am - 5pm Saturday
              9am - 3pm Sunday
      Where:  DARS rocket range, Allen, Texas
      Events: 1/2 A Boost Glider
              1/2 A SuperRoc Duration
                  A Parachute Duration (multi-round)
                  A Rocket Glider
                  B Payload Altitude
                  C Streamer Duration
                  D Single Eggloft Altitude
      Contest
      Director:  Robert Turner

Any and all are welcome to compete, Sport flying is welcome on both days (both 
model and high power).  The waiver ceiling will be 3500 feet, with 5000 feet 
available on request.  The DARS field is big enough to allow most all H & I 
models, as well as large/heavy J & K rockets.  NAR and/or Tripoli certification
required to fly high power.  As is typical with most winter events, the contest
will be held, weather permitting.

For further information contact:

      Buzz McDermott
      Internet:  buzz@rsd.dl.nec.com
      Phone:     (214) 907-4452 (day) 
                 (214) 702-8466 (evening)

================================================================================
= Buzz McDermott                Disclaimer: I speak for no one but myself.     =
= buzz@rsd.dl.nec.com                       Advice and information is often    =
= NAR   13559                               worth what you pay for it.  Mine   =
= TRA    1785                               is free.                           =
================================================================================
From: iqv@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: NARAM?
Date: 9 Nov 92 11:13:40 EST
Distribution: rec
Organization: Cornell University

Where is NARAM going to be held (besides in a field that might be too big or
too small)?

					David
From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: RE: NARAM vs NSL
Date: 5 Nov 92 18:24:55 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <4NOV199211575162@vx.cis.umn.edu>, soc1070 writes:
> The only disadvantage I can see to splitting NARAM and NSL is that
> both events will suffer from attendance drop. The thing that appealed
> to me about a single national event was the fact that you only had to
> travel once to "do it all" and you knew everyone would be there. Next
> year I hopefully will be able to travel to one event. Its too bad that
> at which ever event I make it to (NARAM or NSL) some of the people
> will have chosen to attend the other instead.

That's an inevitable function of progress.  Realize also that there are
a lot of modelers who can't make "the" event at all unless it is held
close to them.  Holding two widely-separated events should make us able
to serve more people overall.

> Also, having a single national event makes it easier to obtain discounts
> on hotels and such, because you can count on a larger group attending.

I dunno about this.  Also, I don't know how much it really matters, since
NARAM hotel rates alone have been widely variable from year to year anyway,
and that's with the same sized group.  Then there are anomalies like 
California NARAMS, which are never as well attended as others.  Frankly,
I think this effect is a total wash.
-- 

cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com      --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...
From: msjohnso@donald.WichitaKS.NCR.COM (Mark Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: 2 questions
Date: 9 Nov 92 17:49:28 GMT
Organization: NCR Corporation Wichita, KS

Roger.Wilfong@umich.edu (Roger Wilfong) writes:
>And not to be forgotten are Mac Donald's Happy Meals (Apogee's former editor, 
>Bob Hegwood, coined the name "Kaplow's Disease' to describe the 
>uncontrollable urge to fly plastic food containers).  Bob claimes that he 
>got the idea at a NARAM that included PMC as an event.  There were so few 
>entries that he figured he could place in the event by just entering.  
>MacDonald's Happy Meal came in a plastic flying saucer at the time, and the 
>rest is history.

History repeated itself this year. At NARAM-34, there were very few PMC
entries in the team division. The Space Happy Meal made an encore appearance.

It received a grand total of 15 static points out of a possible 800, 
divided as follows:

	3 of 500 for craftsmanship
	12 of 300 for degree of difficulty.

I don't have the flight points...I only have the static breakdown because
my wife was one of the PMC judges, and wrote it in one of my notebooks

If memory serves, at its first appearance it got only 5/800 on static judging.
Unfortunately, I don't have those figures.
-- 
Mark Johnson                          USnail: NCR Peripheral Products Division
E-mail:  Mark.Johnson@WichitaKS.NCR.COM       3718 N. Rock Rd.
Voice: (316) 636-8189 [V+ 654-8189]           Wichita, KS  67226
[Non-business email: 76670.1775@compuserve.com]
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: LOGIN@cbnewse.cb.att.com
Subject: Re: Chicago Trade Show Results?
Organization: AT&T
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 19:57:05 GMT

In article <19921106071727.Roger.Wilfong@umich.edu> Roger.Wilfong@umich.edu  (Roger Wilfong) writes:
>In Article <1992Nov5.235726.24234@cbnewse.cb.att.com> "mckiou@cbnewse.cb.att.com (kevin.w.mckiou)" says:
>Is 'something for Bob Kaplow' a reference to his and Allan Jones old team
>nems 'Dual Eglofters'?  They changed the name to 'The Usual Suspects' a 
>couple of years ago.
>  
I think it is more in reference to Bob's claimed area of interest.  It
seems that anytime you pull out an egglofter he wants a close look
at it.  Apparently he and Mike Hellmund have discussed them <G>.

>A reissue of the MacDonalds happy meal flying saucer could rightly be
>claimed as 'something for Bob Kaplow'.

Uhhh...roger that.


Kevin
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: rjungcla@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (R. M. Jungclas)
Subject: Re: 2 questions
Organization: AT&T Bell Labs - Naperville, IL.
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 15:26:05 GMT

In article <58oVVB1w165w@csource.oz.au> alfa@csource.oz.au writes:
>After a weekend of launching a few rockets, I now have 2 questions.
>
>1.  In 2 of the 3 launches of my Estes Black Brant II, and 1 of the 2 launches 
>of my friends Estes Bull Pup, we found small dents on the top edge of the body 
>tube (where the nosecone slides in) - that is, one dent per flight...
> We figure what is happening is that on ejection, the nosecone is firstly 
>propelled away from the body, and then when the shock cord is stretched, the 
>nosecone then flips back at the body, hitting it and denting it.
> Does this happen to anyone else?

Try lengthening the shock cord with either 1/8" or 3/16" elastic. The
frequency "Snap back" will increase as the length of shock cord  decreases.

>2. Some radio control model aircraft flyers have made planes that look like 
>anything BUT a plane...  ie: lawnmowers, chairs..etc..
>After launching my homemade M16 rifle on the weekend (my next is going to be a 
>model of the Eiffel tower) I was wondering if anyone actually launches things 
>that do NOT look like the ordinary finned, coned cylinder.

Lawrence Bercini, currently with the Northern Illinois Rocketry Association
(NIRA) is famous for doing this.  He has 2 ft Eiffel tower, Chicago Water
Tower, 2 ft "carrot", Indian Headdress, etc. just to name a few that he
semi-regularly flys at club events. NIRA usually holds a "unusual"
craftmanship event at least once a year. Some past events have been
"Launch a landmark", "Bathroom Scale", "Kitchen Scale", "SPORTS scale".

Other famous designs are flying pyramid, and flying "Pepsi" (or name own
brand) 2 litter bottle.

R. Michael Jungclas                    UUCP:      att!ihlpb!rjungcla 
AT&T Bell Labs - Naperville, IL.       Internet:  rjungcla@ihlpb.att.com

Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: Tiny Gyroscope, Paul?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 05:59:08 GMT

paul@taniwha.UUCP (Paul Campbell) writes:
: 
: The main drawback I remember about this gyro was that it lost it if it turned
: upside down .... 

Not unusual for gyroscopes - that is why they have "caging" mechanisms. It
protects the gyroscope from damage when it tumbles.

Bill
From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: 2 questions
Date: 5 Nov 92 18:20:05 GMT
Article-I.D.: transfer.7930
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <58oVVB1w165w@csource.oz.au>, alfa@csource.oz.au (glenn durden) writes:
>  We figure what is happening is that on ejection, the nosecone is firstly 
> propelled away from the body, and then when the shock cord is stretched, the 
> nosecone then flips back at the body, hitting it and denting it.
>  Does this happen to anyone else?

Everybody.  Estes is STINGY with their shock cords.  Throw them out, and
replace them with something at least 150% the length of the model (up to
three feet).  Sewing elestic works nice.

> After launching my homemade M16 rifle on the weekend (my next is going to be a 
> model of the Eiffel tower) I was wondering if anyone actually launches things 
> that do NOT look like the ordinary finned, coned cylinder.

Yup.  They're called "Oddrocs."  I've seen Listerine boxes, KFC buckets,
a flying outhouse, rubber chickens, fire trucks, Mary Poppins, and the
Empire State Building with King Kong on it.  There were a number of such
plans in the December 1980 issue of Model Rocketeer, but that issue was
one of the first back issues to sell out completely.  Amspac Back Issues
Sales does have xeroxes, I believe.
-- 

cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com      --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...
From: johnu@scic.intel.com (John Urbanski)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Reload Status ?
Date: 5 Nov 92 21:23:22 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Intel Corporation


Anyone hear anything about the status of RMS ?


jau   


 
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets