HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: miller@b-mrda.ca.boeing.com (Mark Miller)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Elevating water heaters for safety
Date: 14 Aug 92 18:42:17 GMT
Organization: Boeing Commercial Airplanes MR&D

We had our gas furnace and water heater installed in the garage. Both
are elevated for the same reason: so as not to ignite flammable fumes
travelling along the floor. Look at your furnace; it may be sitting on
the floor, but how high above the floor is the actual flame?


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark R. Miller                     | 
Boeing Commercial Airplane Company | 
Seattle, WA                        | 
Internet: miller@b-mrda.boeing.com | 
Voicenet: (206) 237-0960           |  
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Opinions expressed here do not necessarily reflect those of my employer.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: nmiller@starbase.trincoll.edu (norman miller)
Subject: Advice needed on ovens and ranges
Organization: Trinity College, Hartford, CT.
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 15:18:36 GMT

We're about to install a new kitchen and are faced with
a number of decisions about wall ovens, to wit:

electric vs. gas
conventional vs. convection/microwave

Brand names (even model numbers if available) are also
earnestly solicited.

As for gas cooktop ranges, we would like to hear opinions of
downdraft vs. updraft models.

Thanks in advance.

Norman Miller
nmiller@starbase.trincoll.edu
nmiller@vax1.trincoll.edu
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: tholland@pars.skidmore.edu (Anthony Holland)
Subject: Propane -- SURVEY -- How much do YOU use in 1 year ??
Keywords: propane
Organization: Skidmore College, Saratoga Springs NY
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 01:54:58 GMT

I'm interested to hear from people now using propane, or with past  
experience.... can you answer the following please:

1)  how much propane did you use in 1 year ?
2)  approx average price/gallon ?
3) size of your propane tank ?
4) above or below ground tank ?
5) square footage of your house ?
6) how many appliances etc. were running on propane
	(hot water, air, range, clothes dryer ?)

I'd be happy to post a summary.

Thanks !

Anthony Holland
Skidmore College
Saratoga Springs, NY 12866
From: brooksp@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Peter Brooks)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 16:53:00 GMT
Subject: Re: Cost per square for tear-off
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house

Around here (SF bay area), the 20 year shingles are what you can get
from Home Depot.  The roofing supply outfits offer them too (assuming
you can get past the alligators in the moat :-), but the premium lines
(like GAF and Elk and presumably Celotex) offer 25 year as their base
levels, with the "normal" shingles being the 30 year type.  At the top
of the heap is the 40 year shingle.  Haven't messed with them yet, but
I understand that they have gravel both top and bottom for extra
thickness.  I suspect that the bottom gravel does nada for wear resistance.

I remember seeing a figure of 325 pounds/square for one of the 30-40 year
brands.  Cost of raw shingles seems to be 50-60 per square, depending on
grade and brand.  30 year GAF runs about 50, 40 year Elk maybe higher
than 60.

Pete Brooks
From: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Address of IKEA
Date: 13 Aug 92 06:23:40 GMT
Reply-To: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA

In article <34203@cbmvax.commodore.com> brian@cbmvax.commodore.com (Brian Fennimore) writes:
> In article <1992Aug11.193938.25079@ns.network.com> muchow@zebo.network.com (Jim Muchow) writes:
> >As a Scandinavian, my wife misses her local access to the IKEA stores back
> >in Denmark. When she heard that IKEA is now expanding in the States and
> >Canada, she was hoping that they would eventually come to MN. They haven't
> >and so we were wondering if anyone would be kind enough to provide us with
> >the address of the IKEA stores that have opened here in the States. I
> >believe that there is one in PA around Philadelphia and another in Seattle
> >maybe.
> >
> >Jim Muchow
> 
> I don't know the exact address, but the Pennsylvania location is at
> The Plymouth Meeting Mall, Plymouth Meeting, Pa. of all places. This is 
> in Montgomery County, right off the Pa. Turnpike exit for Plymouth Meeting.

[ Plymouth Meeting, King of Prussia and Valley Forge (of Geo. Washington fame)
are really all suburbs of Norristown, but we won't belabor the point ]

I think the US or regional headquarters is also in the Plymouth Meeting area, 
there have been postings from a guy working in the data center there.  I'd
try calling the store first, someone there should be able to identify any
stores in the middle.  If not, try calling information for for corporate
office type numbers.

Anyway the Plymouth Meeting store - it's on the edge of the Mall, not it it
and I don't know it's the same as a "real IKEA" store, or a version edited
for the US...

IKEA Philadelphia Inc, The Home Furnishings Store From Sweeden - 215-834-0150.

-- 
George Robbins - now working for,     uucp:   {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!grr
but no way officially representing:   domain: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com
Commodore, Engineering Department     phone:  215-431-9349 (only by moonlite)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: macrakis@osf.org (Stavros Macrakis)
Subject: Re: wall paper on plaster walls with cracks
Organization: OSF Research Institute
Distribution: usa
Date: 20 Aug 92 10:59:22

In article <1992Aug20.005829.4953@informix.com> stellay@informix.com (Stella Yan) writes:

   I have a 50 year old house which has plaster interior walls.  There
   are many cracks...   Assuming that I repair the cracks before hanging
   the wall paper, when the plaster crack again will it crack right
   through the wall paper?  Or will the cracks stretch the wall paper
   to create creases or lines?

First they'll create creases or lines, then they might split the
wallpaper.  For unstable cracks like this, you should repair the
plaster using flexible tape (I don't know the precise name, but it
looks like gauze rather than like paper).  The stiffer you make the
repair, the sooner it will open up.  With the flexible tape, you can
paper or paint over it, and cracks will take much longer to show up.

	-s
From: jp@faron.mitre.org (Jeffrey Picciotto)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Telephone Outlets
Date: 14 Aug 92 16:04:38 GMT
Organization: MITRE Corporation, Bedford, MA

> And, if they are listening in because they have a similar phone, they can
> make infinite calls that appear on your bill.

And if you do mail ordering, they can get your credit card number.
If your bank gives automated phone balances they can get your account 
number and pin.  Some financial institutions use a social security
number and pin.  There are *lots* of potential, but real, pitfalls.

To bring this back to misc.consumers.house, maybe they're listening
to you explain your reaction to their latest offer to your real estate
agent :-)

--jeff
From: majidi@yoko.rutgers.edu (Masoud Majidi)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: in-house financing?
Date: 14 Aug 92 19:14:13 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.


I am buying a townhouse from a builder which has its own in-house
financing. (Hovnanian in New Jersey) They offered me 7.85 rate with 2
points but I got a quote for 7.75 and 1.25 points yesterday from
another mortgage company (Commonwealth-united mortgage) Is there any
advange in going for in-house financing? Has anyone out there dealt
with either of them? Since I am in final stages of buying the place I
would really appreciate it if you get back to me in case you have any
information which I might be able to use.

Thanks in advance,

Masoud Majidi (majidi@yoko.rutgers.edu)

P.S. BTW both of them told me that I would qualify so qualification is
not the issue...
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: dedek@meaddata.com (Mike Dedek)
Subject: Re: Movie Rental Place wants my Credit Card #
Organization: Mead Data Central, Dayton OH
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 20:46:50 GMT

In article <133873@lll-winken.LLNL.GOV>, ed@wente.llnl.gov (Ed Suranyi) writes:
|> In article <Bt72GC.7Gq@news.cso.uiuc.edu> tmkk@uiuc.edu (Khan) writes:
|> >In article <1992Aug11.184817.11221@icd.teradyne.com> rvn@icd.teradyne.com (Rafael Vidaillet) writes:
|> >>	Well this is the way all the movie rental places I have been a member
|> >>	of work. The idea is that if you take off with the tape and dissappear
|> >>	they will be able to charge you the price of the movie.
|> >
|> >I'm a member of precisely one movie rental club, and I gave them nothing
|> >more than my name and address. All it really takes is to find a
|> >reasonable place with which to do business.
|> 
|> Well, I don't doubt that there's ONE place that will rent you videotapes
|> without a credit card number on file, but I've certainly never found
|> one myself.  I'm a member of about seven video stores, and they all
|> had asked for a credit card.  Until your posting I never heard of one
|> who didn't.
|> 
|> In fact, most rental places that I'm aware of -- from car rentals to
|> furniture rentals to video rentals -- require some kind of security,
|> which in most cases is a credit card number.
|> 
|> Ed
|> ed@wente.llnl.gov
|> 

Well, it's nice to live in a small town (< 5k folks).  Our local video store
required nothing to become a member (of course, the owners live next door).
On the other hand, they have a very limited selection.  Well, it sure does
suck living in a small town...<repeat until dizzy>
:)
-Mike
From: peterson@CS.ColoState.EDU (james peterson)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Re: More Video Rental Horror Stories
Keywords: video horror stories and various tales of woe
Date: 17 Aug 92 15:58:17 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department

In article <1992Aug17.005521.13014@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> jfb200@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (joseph.f.baugher) writes:
>[stuff deleted]
>Speaking of Blockbuster Video, there is one of their stores just down the
>block.  They bought out Erol's Video, which failed a couple of years ago.
>It seems that Blockbuster is rapidly forcing  "mom and pop"  video stores
>out of business.  Blockbuster seems  to have  a larger  selection  of new
>releases than most other places.   I only  had to  wait a couple  of days
>before I was able to rent a copy of  *JFK*.   One of the features  I like
>about Blockbuster is the fact that you can see at  a glance  which movies
>are in and which are not. 

One thing I *don't* like about Blockbuster, at least here in
Fort Collins, Colorado, is that they seem to censor their movie offerings,
either by offering "cut" versions of movies (they seem less concerned
with violence than with sex), or by not offering movies someone in the
organization deems "too controversial."  "The Last Temptation of Christ"
is not available through Blockbuster here, ofr example, evidently to
avoid offending the religious right.  If they wanted to avoid offending
people, it's too late -- I'm deeply offended.

Does anyone know if this practice extends to Blockbuster oulets nationally?


james sends

-- 
james lee peterson				peterson@CS.ColoState.edu
dept. of computer science                       
colorado state university		"Some ignorance is invincible."
ft. collins, colorado  (voice:303/491-7137; fax:303/491-6639)
From: ajeans@hplred.HP.COM (Albert Jeans)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 16:22:11 GMT
Subject: Re: Terrible Experience With Alamo
Organization: Hewlett Packard Labs, Palo Alto CA
Newsgroups: misc.consumers

Alamo is a constant source of complaints (I had a bad experience with them in
Salt Lake City) but I still see a lot of Alamo rental cars on the road. I guess
word is not getting around fast enough.
From: cep@taligent.com (Christophe Pettus)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Re: Car Liability Insurance
Date: 18 Aug 92 19:22:49 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Taligent, a little subsidiary of two really big companies.

In article <9208181857.AA27204@pi.rice.edu> haider@rice.edu writes:
>I am shopping for car liability insurance these days. I am 24, single and
>haven't had a license ever in the US, so there is no traffic record on me.
>
>I wanted to ask if this thing makes any/much difference. Does my driving
>experience in my own country count.

It shouldn't make any difference; in fact, it should be to your
advantage.  While not having had a license for very long can be reason
for higher rates (as being under 25 is), a "clean" driving record is
just that:  nothing on it.  It's not like a credit report; you don't
need to have had a few speeding tickets to prove you can drive ...
(:-).
--
-- Christophe

"Be calm.  Look cute."
From: connors@hplabsz.hpl.hp.com (Tim Connors)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Re: new car purchase
Summary: Air Conditioning
Keywords: car purchase
Date: 17 Aug 92 16:34:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: hplabsz.1992Aug17.163441.7434
Distribution: usa
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories Palo Alto,CA

In article <Bt3LC4.EDq@news.cso.uiuc.edu> hpzg0650@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Hale P Zengingonul) writes:
>
>         My boyfriend just graduated and wants to buy a new car.
>He likes the new Honda Civics.Anyone has an experience with these cars?
>Any advantages, disadvantages?
>							Pinar

If your interested in air conditioning (AC), you might want to buy it
after you buy the base car.  I bought a `91 Civic DX last year and noticed
that the price quotes for AC were inconsistent from dealer to dealer and
also seemed high.  At the library reference desked I checked many
Japanese manufacturers sugested retail price (MSRP) for AC.  None of the
references gave a price for Honda AC, but the others did and were alot 
lower then I'd seen on Honda lots.  I called the West Coast Honda divisional
offices in LA, and was told that Honda did not have an MSRP for AC.
So I called a few Honda dealers and asked for service instead of sales and
asked how much to install AC on a brand new Civic I'd just been given by
my grandmother.  Uniformly the quotes were near the MSRPs for the other
auto makers. (This is also a good time to ask about prices for regular maint.)
So I made my purchase (a whole `nother story) marched to the service window
from the fleet office.  Arranged to have the AC put in and got a 10%
AAA discount to boot.  The AC ended up costing $870 plus tax where most
showroom quotes were $1200, even the fleet guy quoted $950.

Good Luck,
-Tim
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: berger@atropa (Mike Berger)
Subject: Re: Marketing Research on New Product; Handling charges
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 18:59:54 GMT

burgoyne@highlite.uucp (J. Robert Burgoyne) writes:
>gordon@sneaky.lonestar.org (Gordon Burditt) writes:
>: >3. Product advertising should be at the expense of the producer, not
>: >   the consumer.  Whenever I see the words "... and handling", I
>: >   know somebody is trying to do his business at MY expense.  And
>: 
>: If they're charging for "handling", they're selling you handled
>: (read: *USED*) merchandise, and what's worse, they're charging
>: you for handling it, along with new-merchandise prices!
>: 
>: Handling:  JUST SAY NO!

>Give me a break guys. If you're buying mail order you are probably 
>able to avoid sales tax, saving you a little right there. Mail order
>folks have to base the shipping and handling cost on the actual
>expense they incur shipping one product directly to your door.

>Handling charges can easily add up when you consider the cost of an
>envelope or box, packing material, the time spent printing a mailing
>label and the effort behind it, as well as insurance charges and
>general overhead expenses related to running a reasonable shipping
>department that tries hard to get your product shipped to you promptly.
*----
I think you misattributed the posting - in any case:

A retail store lists their honest price for doing business.  Retail
stores have to "handle" merchandise too - aside from purchasing,
receiving, stocking, and inventory, they frequently also have to
display it.  In contrast, the mail-order operation should have lower
overhead all around, doesn't have to worry about display, and at
worst, have to add the extra expense of shipping materials (the
vast majority of what I receive comes in the factory package anyway).

So why do some places list prices for which the merchandise is not
attainable?  If a "handling" fee is mandatory, then it is PART OF
THE COST of the merchandise.  Wouldn't you object if retail stores
followed that practice?  When you got to the cash register, they'd
ring up the price of purchase, then add a few dollars for "handling".

I don't see why it's an acceptable practice at all, when it doesn't
reflect any obvious extra costs of doing business.
--
	Mike Berger
	Department of Statistics, University of Illinois
	AT&TNET     217-244-6067
	Internet    berger@atropa.stat.uiuc.edu
From: ed@wente.llnl.gov (Ed Suranyi)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Re: Movie Rental Place wants my Credit Card #
Date: 19 Aug 92 17:05:45 GMT
Article-I.D.: lll-wink.133874
Organization: UC Davis Dept of Applied Science at LLNL

In article <Bt72GK.7HJ@news.cso.uiuc.edu> tmkk@uiuc.edu (Khan) writes:

[Talking about Blockbuster Video.]

>It does nothing but encourage them, and there are plenty of other places
>in this town where you can go to rent movies without BS "policies."

Oh, how I wish this were true.  Despite Blockbuster's quasi-censorship
policy, which has been discussed at length, they STILL carry by far
the best selection of videos in my town.  For instance, they are the
only ones with a decent collection of the classic movies of the 
thirties and forties, and the only one with a decent collection of
foreign films.  Should I not see these excellent films just to make
a political point?  It's true that there are some movies that 
Blockbuster doesn't carry that other stores do.  But around here,
the reverse is much more common.

Ed
ed@wente.llnl.gov
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: paul@xcluud.sccsi.com (Paul Hutmacher)
Subject: Re: Movie Rental horror stories (was ...wa
Summary: I never get receipts for returned videos
Organization: Greater Montrose UFO Appreciation Society & Data Haven
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 00:54:17 GMT

In article <14AUG199211544350@quark2.aero.org> lee@arecibo.aero.org writes:
>Moral: beware of those video return bins.  they may be convenient, but
>without a receipt, you don't have any real proof that you returned a
>video!

I've only dealt with the local neighborhood video shop and Blockbuster
but neither of them have offered a receipt for a video return.  Usually
it's just a "Thank you!" and a quick check to make sure it was rewound.


-- 
"There is nothing to history.  No progress,          | Paul Hutmacher 
 no justice. There is nothing but random horror."    | Houston, Texas
"Jupiter" in _The Difference Engine_ Gibson/Sterling | paul@xcluud.sccsi.com
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: cab@col.hp.com (Chris Best)
Subject: Re: Need Address and Name
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 20:14:28 GMT
Organization: your service


> 	Traveling 40 MPH with a solid piece of plywood tied onto the
> roof?  The end result does not surprise me a bit.  I bet a foreign
> car would yield the same result.  Good luck trying to get someone
> else to pay for it.  No sympathy from me!

----------

It surprises me a lot.  Even with 3/4" plywood, that's only 36 square 
inches of frontal area exposed to the wind.  It's not like he stood
the plywood on end!  A single suitcase could have four or five times
the frontal area, but that's covered, apparently.

And if you want to cite Bernoulli, remember that air was passing
under it, too.  Not many car luggage racks are wider that 4' or 
longer than 8', so it probably rode on top.

The problem was probably this: if the plywood was only tied to the
luggage rack, then it probably lifted some in the wind.  It's
near impossible to get enough downward force from ropes that are
going sideways (from the edge of the wood to the smaller rack).
So maybe he DID stand it on end!

I'm still surprised it broke, though, and them saying "it's not
designed to carry wood, so it's not covered" is really sleazy.
If it wasn't stated in writing, I can't believe it's enforceable.
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: tmkk@uiuc.edu (Khan)
Subject: Re: More Video Rental Horror Stories
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 16:25:54 GMT


In article <Aug17.155817.38848@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> peterson@CS.ColoState.EDU (james peterson) writes:
>
>One thing I *don't* like about Blockbuster, at least here in
>Fort Collins, Colorado, is that they seem to censor their movie offerings,
>either by offering "cut" versions of movies (they seem less concerned
>with violence than with sex), or by not offering movies someone in the
>organization deems "too controversial."  "The Last Temptation of Christ"
>is not available through Blockbuster here, ofr example, evidently to
>avoid offending the religious right.  If they wanted to avoid offending
>people, it's too late -- I'm deeply offended.
>
>Does anyone know if this practice extends to Blockbuster oulets nationally?

YES. When BlockBuster decided to censor LTOC, that was when I decided
NEVER to become a member, even though the store is close by. It's
obvious there is a better movie selection to be had just about anywhere
else.
From: ray.normandeau@factory.com (Ray Normandeau) 
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: BUTTONEER
Date: 17 Aug 92 01:58:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Invention Factory's BBS - New York City, NY - 212-274-1243v.32bis
Reply-To: ray.normandeau@factory.com (Ray Normandeau) 


steck@ccs.northeastern.edu (Paul Steckler) writes:

>-Years ago, there was a product called "Buttoneer" which allowed you
>-to attach buttons to clothing using little plastic doohickeys, no
>-thread required. The button would stay attached better than if
>-sewn.
>-
>-I think the thing was made by Dennison Mfg, the same co. that made
>-notebook paper reinforcements and the like.

Yes that item was made by Dennison. I still have one.
I demonstrated the item at A&S Department store in Brooklyn, NY in
1968.

While working as a demonstrator in the store, I met a customer who I
married in 1969. We are still married.

You may want to try 800-555-1212 to locate Denisson.

Over a period of many years the plastic fasteners do tend to
detriorate in strength.

I work freelance as a performer (actor, MC, pitchman, etc.) and now
23 years later I find myself pitching a roach killer within 100 feet
of the same A&S

Ray
E-Mail Internet: ray.normandeau@factory.com
From: rinehart@dartagnan.rutgers.edu (Mark J. Rinehart)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Re: Phone recommendations?
Date: 12 Aug 92 21:00:20 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

In article <1992Aug11.191758.3270@u.washington.edu> ngrjn@milton.u.washington.edu (V Nagarajan) writes:

> 	Four ordinary, run-of-the-mill ($30 - 50 each) telephones in
> 	three years - I seem to have an extraordinarily bad touch; all the
> 	phones have been name-brands like GTE, Pacific Bell, Conair..
> 	I haven't bothered to use the warranty because I don't see how
> 	a reconditioned equipment can be better than a brand new one.
> 	Are there good, rugged basic phones out there?
> 							- Nagarajan	

About 4 years ago, I purchased a Northwestern Bell touch-tone phone at
Consumers Distributing store (discount warehouse type department store
on East Coast) for $39 and change. Have never had any problems with it
at all. It has memory for 30 numbers, with battery backup, last
re-dial, flash, and speaker (and one other feature which I can't think
of right now). Anyway, I'd bet you could find such a phone today for
about the same price. btw, I have beaten the crap out of this phone
over the years, including dropping it on the floor a few times. Still
works fine. 





Mark
Newsgroups: misc.consumers