From: suter@fawlty7.eng.monash.edu.au (Mr D. Suter)
Subject: Re: Compulsory Voting.
Organization: Monash University
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 04:31:03 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.101141.89485@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au> phs265y@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au writes:
>       Capitalism is based fundamentally on profit, not on people. For the vast
                                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^wrong. 
Capitalism is based upon the notion that people should have freedom of
economic activity. Centrally planned economies are based upon the notion
that the state (read commune/peoples collective/tony hartin's friends/
whatever term is appropriate for the group of people that push this
idea upon the rest) is more important than individual people.
>majority of the world's population capitalism does not "work". Capitalism is a
                                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
wrong again.
>world system and part of its nature is to penetrate everywhere. It has, and the
                                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You have said that your system also has to penetrate everywhere. This
I don't challenge. Capitalism can exist on any scale however. AS I'VE
SAID MANY TIMES if you would be happy to leave those of us who
want to be capitalist alone, we would be happy to leave your little
world to it's own devices. As you have already conceeded, you little
world will shrivel as people abandon it for the better life in ours.
However, that's clearly not a case of capitalism HAVING to penetrate yours.
>result has been war through the drive to open up and compete for new markets, 
>exploitation of the third world, recessions, unemployment, fascism, etc.
Even I wouldn't say that captitalism hasn't been a factor in this list.
But so has every other 'ism one can think of - INCLUDING SOCIALISM.
>Capitalism will not survive. It will either end up in barbarism or socialism.
            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^You hope!                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Or both (witness Pol Pot, Stalin, ......)
>            You seem to have some sort of blind spot regarding Stalinism.
>Stalinism is the mirror image of nazism. It is extreme right-wing politics and
>is diametrically oppossed to socialism. I don't know how many times I have to
>say it: USSR, China, Cuba, the Eastern Bloc, North Korea, Vietnam. None of
>these countries are or ever have been socialist.
Wrong again. The basic principle of socialism was there in all of these.
The political framework by which the system was imposed,
might not have been your committee heaven (although they seemed to have
made a good job of stifling things with a fair degree of such committees
at lower levels) but the main principle of divorcing reward from
some effective measure of productivity/usefulness (read profit)
was the crucial socialist implementation that also, ultimately,
leads to their demise.
Really, it's quite comical. Country XXX has a revolution. Tony's
committee heaven becomes a tool for a few despots. Tony abandons
them as "stalinist/neo-capitalist". They crumble. Country YYYY
has a revolution. Tony's committee heaven becomes......
Sorry, say it again Tony..........and you say capitalism is bound
to fail! As you so blindy ignore, and as the above list
of countries amply show, your system is un-implementable, will degenerate
into what you called stalinism, will then further decay, and will
become capitalist. 
d.s.


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